Creationists Trick Scientists Into Appearing in Anti-Darwin Film

Science • Views: 15,389

Creationists in Britain apparently tricked several scientists into appearing in a movie that portrays Charles Darwin as a racist.

It’s a phenomenon we’ve seen in LGF threads too — zealous creationists will knowingly lie to promote their cause, because they’re lying for Jesus. They have a “get out of jail free” card from on high.

The scientists who agreed to be interviewed also deserve a good slap, though. Turn off the electron microscopes for a few minutes and learn to Google.

Professor Peter Bowler, the author of a biography of Charles Darwin and many other books on the history of evolution, said he was interviewed for the The Voyage That Shook The World without realising that the film was being made by a Creationist group.

Professor Bowler, who has spent most of his academic career at Queen’s University, Belfast, researching Darwinism, says he is unhappy to be appearing in what he regards as an “anti-Darwinian” film which offers an historically distorted portrait of Darwin. He claims that the film’s narrative implies that Darwin’s theory led him towards racism, whereas recent historical work by James Moore and Adrian Desmond shows that Darwin’s scientific work was partly motivated by the naturalist’s passionate opposition to racism.

Professor Bowler says he, along with his colleagues Sandra Herbert and Janet Browne, only discovered that they had inadvertently contributed to a Creationist film a month before the film’s release. Peter Bowler also raised concerns about how the editing of his own interview could leave viewers with a false impression of his own perspective on Darwin.

Phil Bell, CEO of Creation Ministries UK, acknowledged that his organisation established a “front company” called Fathom Media, because they were concerned that experts such as Peter Bowler would not agree to take part in the film if they realised it was an “overtly Creationist” production. “At the end of the day,” he said, “[when] people see ‘Creationist’, instantly the shutters go up and that would have shut us off from talking to the sort of experts, such as Professor Bowler, that we wanted to get to.”

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467 comments
1 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:01:24pm

Were they named Bruno?

2 Kragar  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:01:28pm

Scum is scum, no matter what the reason.

3 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:02:45pm

Seriously, was the producer Sacha Baron Cohen? He's good at that.

4 solomonpanting  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:03:08pm
At the end of the day,” he said, “[when] people see ‘Creationist’, instantly the shutters go up and that would have shut us off from talking to the sort of experts, such as Professor Bowler, that we wanted to get to.”

And for good reason.

"If we can't be honest and up front, we'll deceive 'em."

Creationist creed

5 Outrider  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:03:10pm
“At the end of the day,” he said, “[when] people see ‘Creationist’, instantly the shutters go up and that would have shut us off from talking to the sort of experts, such as Professor Bowler, that we wanted to get to.”

Could there possibly be a reason for that reaction? Probably the same reactions as if one were talking about the Loch Ness Monster, vampires, alien abductions, or Bigfoot.

6 philip  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:04:10pm

Lying and deception to get your point across, eh...

What would Jesus do?

7 Kronocide  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:05:19pm

It's Get Darwin all the time now.

8 FoolsMate  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:06:21pm

I can't believe this issue is even debated anymore.

9 Sharmuta  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:06:54pm
Phil Bell, CEO of Creation Ministries UK, acknowledged that his organisation established a “front company” called Fathom Media, because they were concerned that experts such as Peter Bowler would not agree to take part in the film if they realised it was an “overtly Creationist” production.

Shameless and premeditated. What- was Michael Behe unavailable?

10 FoolsMate  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:08:15pm

What is truly sad is a significant segment of the Republican party caters to these nuts.

11 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:09:02pm

Lying for Jesus.

12 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:09:14pm

These eggheads who agreed to be interviewed for the film deserve a good slap. Turn off the electron microscope for a few minutes and learn to use Google.

13 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:09:45pm

Everyone -

AND, If Charles Darwin, in the 19th Century, was a racist - as many Englishmen and other Europeans were at that time - the question is - DOES THAT DISPROVE HIS THEORY? Comments?

-S-

14 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:12:16pm

re: #10 FoolsMate

What is truly sad is a significant segment of the Republican party caters to these nuts.

Almost all GOP politicians cater to these nuts.

15 eon  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:12:25pm

re: #9 Sharmuta

Shameless and premeditated. What- was Michael Behe unavailable?

Maybe they were getting in touch with their inner Michael Moore?

/I know, I know, I didn't need that mental image either, but it had to be said.

/Time out for brain bleach.

cheers

eon

16 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:13:48pm

"Lying for Jesus."

It's the new "telling the truth."

17 KingKenrod  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:14:02pm

Shouldn't Ph.D.'s be a little more diligent in guarding their reputations?

18 Kragar  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:15:00pm

You fucked up. You trusted us.

19 Idle Drifter  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:15:18pm

So which circle of Hell do those that lie in God's name reside?

20 Sharmuta  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:15:28pm

re: #12 Charles

These eggheads who agreed to be interviewed for the film deserve a good slap. Turn off the electron microscope for a few minutes and learn to use Google.

Clicking links is teh hard (and not just for creationists anymore).

21 CynicalConservative  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:15:42pm

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You fucked up. You trusted us.

Animal house. Sad that we're living it at the government level.

22 eon  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:15:53pm

re: #14 Charles

Almost all GOP politicians cater to these nuts.

Yes, and if they want people like me to stay in the party, they better rethink it. Seriously.

The way to deal with the irrationality of the pseudomystical "progressive" crowd is not to indulge in a different brand of mysticism.

/We have a far superior instrument; it's called science.

cheers

eon

23 Unakite  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:17:10pm

re: #13 Dr. Shalit

Everyone -

AND, If Charles Darwin, in the 19th Century, was a racist - as many Englishmen and other Europeans were at that time - the question is - DOES THAT DISPROVE HIS THEORY? Comments?

-S-

Nope. They use it to distract the discussion.

24 FoolsMate  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:18:16pm

re: #14 Charles

I'm really tired of apologizing for the Republican party for creationism to the rset of my family over the holidays.

25 Unakite  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:18:31pm

re: #5 Outrider

Could there possibly be a reason for that reaction? Probably the same reactions as if one were talking about the Loch Ness Monster, vampires, alien abductions, or Bigfoot.

Hey! Bigfoot is real! I saw him on the History Channel!
//

26 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:18:48pm

Should have had them swear on a bible.

27 jaunte  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:19:49pm

Judging by the trailer at this link, the producers should have paid their makeup artist a little better. "Darwin's' muttonchop whiskers are going to be a distraction for the audience.
[Link: sandwalk.blogspot.com...]

28 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:20:08pm

re: #19 Idle Drifter

So which circle of Hell do those that lie in God's name reside?

Either the inner ring of the 7th Circle, Bolgia 8 of the 8th Circle, or Bolgia 10 of the 8th Circle. Not quit sure which class of liar or deceiver they count as.

29 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:20:29pm

re: #22 eon

Yes, and if they want people like me to stay in the party, they better rethink it. Seriously.

The way to deal with the irrationality of the pseudomystical "progressive" crowd is not to indulge in a different brand of mysticism.

/We have a far superior instrument; it's called science.

cheers

eon

eon -

OK Here's "ME" - Originally, there was "Creation" - the handiest explanation for "something out of nothing" - after that - evolution.
Our arguments - versus "The Left" are those based on Human Knowledge and Experience. Call it "Science" if you will - That is OK by me.

-S-

30 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:21:03pm

re: #25 Unakite

Hey! Bigfoot is real! I saw him on the History Hysteria Channel!
//

FTFY

31 jaunte  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:21:06pm

Voice-over narration on the trailer: "Does his science still make sense...?"

32 Shiplord kirel  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:22:08pm

re: #14 Charles

Almost all GOP politicians cater to these nuts.

Not my humble self. Of course, I haven't won an election since 1988. This may not be coincidence.

33 eon  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:23:15pm

re: #29 Dr. Shalit

eon -

OK Here's "ME" - Originally, there was "Creation" - the handiest explanation for "something out of nothing" - after that - evolution.
Our arguments - versus "The Left" are those based on Human Knowledge and Experience. Call it "Science" if you will - That is OK by me.

-S-

Works for me.

cheers

eon

34 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:23:40pm

re: #25 Unakite

Hey! Bigfoot is real! I saw him on the History Channel!
//


Was he interviewing Michael Medved?

Medved believes there is credible evidence for Bigfoot.
Medved talks about recent news reports that there is a Big Foot.

35 Idle Drifter  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:24:11pm

re: #25 Unakite

Hey! Bigfoot is real! I saw him on the History Channel!
//

The History Channel drives me nuts when they host crap that's better left to the Sci-Fi Channel. UFOs, Cryptozoology, and company do not belong on the same channel with real historical events and human advancement.

36 eon  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:24:28pm

re: #28 ArchangelMichael

Either the inner ring of the 7th Circle, Bolgia 8 of the 8th Circle, or Bolgia 10 of the 8th Circle. Not quit sure which class of liar or deceiver they count as.

Mathew 7; 21-23 has a thing or two to say about that, too.

/just looked it up online.

cheers

eon

37 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:25:17pm

re: #35 Idle Drifter

The History Channel drives me nuts when they host crap that's better left to the Sci-Fi Channel. UFOs, Cryptozoology, and company do not belong on the same channel with real historical events and human advancement.

It pays the bills. That's what TV is all about.

38 freetoken  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:25:27pm

re: #32 Shiplord kirel

Not my humble self. Of course, I haven't won an election since 1988. This may not be coincidence.

Well, you could have Anthony Watts graph your election results... I'm sure he could come up with a trend for you.

/whoops... I'm confusing my controversies.
// or am I?

39 Sharmuta  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:26:25pm

re: #31 jaunte

Voice-over narration on the trailer: "Does his science still make sense...?"

I wonder if they ask themselves that when they're at the doctor's office.

40 Shiplord kirel  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:26:57pm

re: #34 HelloDare

Was he interviewing Michael Medved?

Medved believes there is credible evidence for Bigfoot.
Medved talks about recent news reports that there is a Big Foot.

I am a complete skeptic about Bigfoot, but the idea itself is orders of magnitude more credible than Creationism. Bigfoot is something that could conceivably exist, in the sense that the existence of such a creature does not violate physical law or known and multiply demonstrated principles of biology.

41 FamHistoryGuy  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:26:57pm

Lawsuits for fraud?

42 Idle Drifter  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:27:25pm

re: #37 CyanSnowHawk

It pays the bills. That's what TV is all about.

True, very true. I wonder what the ratings would be if they didn't host the nut balls.

43 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:27:44pm

re: #30 ArchangelMichael

FTFY

ArchangelMichael -

The "Yete" or Bigfoot would be a North American Great Ape. Is that "Possible?" - SURELY - there are "Great Apes" in Africa and Asia - Why NOT the Americas? The remains of one hunted and killed, if it exists, would be a BIG Help in analyzing what the animal really is, if it exists.

-S-

44 jaunte  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:28:26pm

re: #39 Sharmuta

I wonder if they ask themselves that when they're at the doctor's office.

The funny bit is that the film producers would claim to have an answer for that question.

45 ryannon  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:30:19pm

re: #14 Charles

Almost all GOP politicians cater to these nuts.

Charles channeling Kilgore channeling Charles?

46 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:30:58pm

re: #45 ryannon

Charles channeling Kilgore channeling Charles?

They do. It's a simple fact.

47 Unakite  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:31:39pm

re: #30 ArchangelMichael
re: #25 Unakite

Hey! Bigfoot is real! I saw him on the History Hysteria Channel!
//

FTFY

It has pretty much gone that way, hasn't it. Sad. :(

48 Shiplord kirel  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:32:00pm

re: #45 ryannon

Charles channeling Kilgore channeling Charles?

If someone can name a prominent Republican who publicly opposes creationism and ID, I would dearly love to hear it.

49 freetoken  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:32:43pm

re: #46 Charles

They do. It's a simple fact.

And of course the ones that don't are obviously RINO's!

/

50 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:34:04pm

Romney Elaborates on Evolution

Mitt Romney expanded on his belief in evolution in an interview earlier this week, staking out a position that could put him at odds with some conservative Christians, a key voting bloc he is courting.

Mr. Romney, a devout Mormon, surprised some observers when he was not among those Republican candidates who raised their hands last week when asked at the Republican presidential debate if they did not believe in evolution. (Senator Sam Brownback, former Gov. Mike Huckabee and Representative Tom Tancredo said they did not.)

“I believe that God designed the universe and created the universe,” Mr. Romney said in an interview this week. “And I believe evolution is most likely the process he used to create the human body.”

He was asked: Is that intelligent design?

“I’m not exactly sure what is meant by intelligent design,” he said. “But I believe God is intelligent and I believe he designed the creation. And I believe he used the process of evolution to create the human body.”

While governor of Massachusetts, Mr. Romney opposed the teaching of intelligent design in science classes.

“In my opinion, the science class is where to teach evolution, or if there are other scientific thoughts that need to be discussed,” he said. “If we’re going to talk about more philosophical matters, like why it was created, and was there an intelligent designer behind it, that’s for the religion class or philosophy class or social studies
class.”

51 Unakite  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:34:17pm

re: #35 Idle Drifter

The History Channel drives me nuts when they host crap that's better left to the Sci-Fi Channel. UFOs, Cryptozoology, and company do not belong on the same channel with real historical events and human advancement.

Yeah, but look at the crap that is on the Discovery Channel nowadays. They used to have some interesting/educational stuff, but now it pretty much all sucks (except Mythbusters).

52 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:34:41pm

re: #48 Shiplord kirel

If someone can name a prominent Republican who publicly opposes creationism and ID, I would dearly love to hear it.

The one Obama is trying to ship off to China so he wont be a threat in 2012.

53 eon  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:34:44pm

re: #35 Idle Drifter

The History Channel drives me nuts when they host crap that's better left to the Sci-Fi Channel. UFOs, Cryptozoology, and company do not belong on the same channel with real historical events and human advancement.

I was a fan of UFO Hunters early on, because they went looking for evidence of some (in)famous "cases", and when they found either none or that the evidence didn't square with the story, they called it "disproven". To me, they were right up there with Mythbusters.

Then, they veered off into the whole "coverup/conspiracy theory/Dulce Base/ underground bases" thing, where there is no freaking evidence whatsoever, and they fell back on the old UFOlogist's ploy of "If you can't disprove it, it must be true".

The only "truth" in that statement is that whoever makes it is either a liar or an idiot.

My guess is that the early episodes weren't getting the viewership they wanted, so they decided to "jazz it up". MonsterQuest and Mega Disasters did the same thing, the latter going from doing a show on the probability of Anat Krakatau ("Son of Krakatoa") doing a repeat of what the original did on 27 August 1883 (Probability; high enough to worry about), to doing stories on "Peak Oil" and other boogymen of the "deep-eco" crowd.

History Channel seems to be willing to sell out to anybody, either for the right price or to be with the "in crowd".

/One more reason I mainly use my TV to watch old movies these days.

cheers

eon

54 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:34:51pm

re: #49 freetoken

And of course the ones that don't are obviously RINO's!

/

Worse, they're Mormons.

55 Shiplord kirel  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:35:13pm

It's a safe bet that the late Barry Goldwater would not have supported creationism, but it just wasn't on the political radar screen while he was still active.

56 Irenicum  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:36:50pm

Wow. Lying for Jesus. How special.
/

57 freetoken  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:38:11pm

re: #54 HelloDare

Mormon RINO's !

58 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:38:11pm

Guess the whole idea that if you have to lie to try and prove your argument, your argument is crap hasn't sunk in.

59 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:39:15pm

re: #50 HelloDare

One of many reasons why he's unelectable as a Republican, unless things change.

60 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:40:03pm

re: #57 freetoken

Mormon RINO's !

Mornos. Rhymes with Pornos.

61 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:40:35pm

re: #59 Charles
Just a terrible commentary on the state of conservative thought.

62 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:41:02pm

re: #59 Charles

One of many reasons why he's unelectable as a Republican, unless things change.

Yes. Hence #54

63 eon  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:41:39pm

re: #59 Charles

One of many reasons why he's unelectable as a Republican, unless things change.

I never thought I'd say this, but maybe it's time for a third party.

We could call it the "We're Not Stupid" Party.

cheers

eon

64 Shiplord kirel  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:42:34pm

re: #50 HelloDare

Romney was waffling on whether his view constitutes "intelligent design." It isn't in terms of how the term is used by the active subculture of creationist oriented ID proponents. Their crucial claim is that there is positive evidence for biological phenomena that could only result from intelligent intervention rather than from purely natural processes. Romney advocates something else entirely, the non-contradiction of faith and evolutionary science, but is afraid to admit it.

65 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:43:14pm

re: #63 eon

I never thought I'd say this, but maybe it's time for a third party.

We could call it the "We're Not Stupid" Party.

cheers

eon

One of the lizards is touting the Modern Whigs. The platform looks good.

66 ryannon  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:43:42pm

re: #46 Charles

They do. It's a simple fact.

Indeed it is.

As is your prescience concerning this issue.

67 NukeAtomrod  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:43:53pm
It’s a phenomenon we’ve seen in LGF threads too — zealous creationists will knowingly lie to promote their cause, because they’re lying for Jesus.

This is the problem with all political activism. Once you become a zealot for a cause, the truth becomes secondary if it's a consideration at all.

68 legalpad  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:43:57pm

re: #6 philip

Lying and deception to get your point across, eh...

What would Jesus do?


Here you go -

Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowards and the ignoble and the contemptible and the cravenly lacking in courage and the cowardly submissive, and as for the unbelieving and faithless, and as for the depraved and defiled with abominations, and as for murderers and the lewd and adulterous and the practicers of magic arts and the idolaters (those who give supreme devotion to anyone or anything other than God) and all liars (those who knowingly convey untruth by word or deed)--[all of these shall have] their part in the lake that blazes with fire and brimstone. This is the second death.
69 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:47:00pm

re: #65 HelloDare

One of the lizards is touting the Modern Whigs. The platform looks good.

From what I've seen their platform has no philosophical basis behind it other than "this stuff sounds good to us right now" and that's a recipe for a Reform Party like disaster.

70 HypnoToad  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:47:18pm

With the help of all of you on LGF, I think I know what's wrong with me now.

I'm a ponytailed Volvo driver in SoCal who votes republican and accepts darwinian evolution. No wonder I'm alone most of the time.....

71 Shiplord kirel  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:47:24pm
"When you say 'radical right' today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican party and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye."(emphasis added)


Barry Goldwater, 1994

72 slokat  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:47:41pm

re: #63 eon

I never thought I'd say this, but maybe it's time for a third party.

We could call it the "We're Not Stupid" Party.

cheers

eon

And you'll get enough votes to ensure that the Dems win again...

73 slokat  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:48:22pm

Off to watch a movie and leave with a quote:

If a man would follow, today, the teachings of the Old Testament, he would be a criminal. If he would follow strictly the teachings of the New, he would be insane. ~Robert G. Ingersoll

74 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:48:55pm

re: #71 Shiplord kirel
The man was right. So far here where I am, eastern WA. none of this socon crap has cropped up, yet.

75 Sharmuta  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:49:55pm

re: #55 Shiplord kirel

It's a safe bet that the late Barry Goldwater would not have supported creationism, but it just wasn't on the political radar screen while he was still active.

Senator Goldwater was a firm believer in science. He stressed the importance of in in the chapter on education in The Conscience of a Conservative.

76 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:51:18pm

re: #48 Shiplord kirel

If someone can name a prominent Republican who publicly opposes creationism and ID, I would dearly love to hear it.

It's possible that Darrell Issa R-Vista CA does, but he does represent Vista, a place that has had problems with creationist school boards in the past. Nothing at all about education on his website, but he is known for favoring local education control. I have no idea if that is an indicator of a creation/ID supporter.

77 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:51:19pm

re: #75 Sharmuta
Was that a good read?

78 Shiplord kirel  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:51:35pm

re: #74 pingjockey

The man was right. So far here where I am, eastern WA. none of this socon crap has cropped up, yet.

Here in West Texas, it's just politics and culture as usual. Many of the backward-ass socon GOP types here are flattered in fact that the rest of party has been "catching up" with them for the past 25-30 years.

79 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:52:57pm

re: #78 Shiplord kirel
Good Lord! We can do without that kind of catching up.
I mentioned this the other day, I saw an ad for the "Creation Museum" on tv.

80 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:52:58pm

re: #70 HypnoToad

With the help of all of you on LGF, I think I know what's wrong with me now.

I'm a ponytailed Volvo driver in SoCal who votes republican and accepts darwinian evolution. No wonder I'm alone most of the time.....

Minus the Volvo part you described me. (In my case the hair is temporary, a hair cut has been low on my priority list the past 6 months or so) You don't have to be alone, just avoid political and religious discussions with... just about everyone you can and you will be fine.

81 Silvergirl  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:53:06pm

re: #75 Sharmuta

Senator Goldwater was a firm believer in science. He stressed the importance of in in the chapter on education in The Conscience of a Conservative.

Took ya long enough. From #55 to #75? I was expecting to here from you by #56. :-)

82 jcm  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:53:22pm

Cool!

A Darwin thread,
A drinking thread,
All in honor of my hatching day!

Thanks Charles!

Oh, and I'm humble too!

83 Silvergirl  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:53:33pm

re: #81 Silvergirl

PINF
hear!

84 jcm  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:53:46pm

re: #77 pingjockey

Was that a good read?

Required IMHO!

85 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:53:51pm

re: #69 ArchangelMichael

From what I've seen their platform has no philosophical basis behind it other than "this stuff sounds good to us right now" and that's a recipe for a Reform Party like disaster.

They are for small government, states rights and not legislating morality. They are pretty clear about that. Read the platform of Dems and Republicans and you see a lot of words that don't mean all that much. I'm not on their band wagon or anything.

86 NukeAtomrod  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:53:57pm

re: #50 HelloDare

God made Man, but a monkey supplied the glue. - DEVO

I doubt they'll be elected president either.

87 Silvergirl  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:54:04pm

O man, it's so bad when you can't even get PIMF right.

88 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:54:22pm

re: #84 jcm
Okay. I'll put it on the top of the must read list!

89 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:54:31pm

re: #76 CyanSnowHawk

I have no idea if that is an indicator of a creation/ID supporter.

Often but not always. I support more local control and the right to home school but I'm not a creationist. Can't speak for Issa though.

90 Sharmuta  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:54:57pm

Goldwater is The Man, and I highly recommend Lizards read The Conscience of a Conservative. It's a short read and inexpensive.

91 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:55:02pm

re: #35 Idle Drifter

The History Channel drives me nuts when they host crap that's better left to the Sci-Fi Channel. UFOs, Cryptozoology, and company do not belong on the same channel with real historical events and human advancement.

how do you know Bigfoot is not real?...reverse trooferism?

92 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:56:09pm

re: #85 HelloDare

They are for small government, states rights and not legislating morality. They are pretty clear about that. Read the platform of Dems and Republicans and you see a lot of words that don't mean all that much. I'm not on their band wagon or anything.

Yes but they don't explain why they are for these things, and that is a red flag to me that they don't have a strong unchangeable belief in the correctness of these positions.

93 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:56:29pm

If the anti-Christ in on the other ticket, Romney might have a shot. I'm only half kidding. What's an appropriate tag for that? %P%/

94 jcm  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:56:33pm

re: #90 Sharmuta

Goldwater is The Man, and I highly recommend Lizards read The Conscience of a Conservative. It's a short read and inexpensive.

Conscience of a Conservative online.

95 Shiplord kirel  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:56:58pm

re: #75 Sharmuta

Senator Goldwater was a firm believer in science. He stressed the importance of in in the chapter on education in The Conscience of a Conservative.

At a personal level, Goldwater was fascinated with technology and science all his life. His big interests were photography, radio, and aviation, but he was amazingly well-informed about such subjects as geology, astronomy, and oceanography as well. I remember reading an account of a visit he made to the Naval Observatory field station in Flagstaff in the early 60s. The professional astronomers were amazed, and to some extent caught off guard, by the depth of his knowledge and the relevance of some of his questions.

96 Racer X  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:58:04pm

re: #87 Silvergirl

O man, it's so bad when you can't even get PIMF right.

PIFW.

97 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:58:14pm

re: #70 HypnoToad

With the help of all of you on LGF, I think I know what's wrong with me now.

I'm a ponytailed Volvo driver in SoCal who votes republican and accepts darwinian evolution. No wonder I'm alone most of the time.....

Wave the next time you drive by a blue Escape with a pony-tailed driver who votes Republican and accepts evolution.

98 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:58:32pm

re: #91 albusteve
I live out here in the Pacific Northwest and have been in the woods and hunting since I was 8. In 42 years, I have never ever seen anything, nor have I talked to anyone who has seen such a thing, My dad worked for the Forest Service for 30 years and has been into places a handful of people have ever been into. He hasn't seen anything either. This doesn't mean there isn't, but, by now a skeleton, feces, hair, something proveable should have turned up.

99 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:58:34pm

re: #92 ArchangelMichael

Yes but they don't explain why they are for these things, and that is a red flag to me that they don't have a strong unchangeable belief in the correctness of these positions.

You mean like Republicans under Bush had an unchangeable belief in small government?

100 HypnoToad  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:58:42pm

re: #80 ArchangelMichael

Minus
the Volvo part you described me. (In my case the hair is temporary, a
hair cut has been low on my priority list the past 6 months or so) You
don't have to be alone, just avoid political and religious discussions
with... just about everyone you can and you will be fine.

The problem is, I like to argue. And I get into some doozys starting from astronomy of all things. I mention the distances and ages of things to some of the viewers at my telescope and we veer off into the religiosphere.

101 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:58:57pm

re: #94 jcm

Conscience of a Conservative online.

thanks for that

102 jcm  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 7:59:59pm

re: #92 ArchangelMichael

Yes but they don't explain why they are for these things, and that is a red flag to me that they don't have a strong unchangeable belief in the correctness of these positions.

And when they don't know why, they are easily swayed by seemly well meaning, popular or expedient policies which are antithetical to classical liberalism.

103 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:00:16pm

re: #98 pingjockey

I live out here in the Pacific Northwest and have been in the woods and hunting since I was 8. In 42 years, I have never ever seen anything, nor have I talked to anyone who has seen such a thing, My dad worked for the Forest Service for 30 years and has been into places a handful of people have ever been into. He hasn't seen anything either. This doesn't mean there isn't, but, by now a skeleton, feces, hair, something proveable should have turned up.

Bigfoot is very clever...alot smarter than the simps hunting him down...

104 Racer X  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:00:26pm

Everyone and their brother has a camera cell phone now. How come we hardly ever hear anything about UFOs or bigfoot any more?

105 Sharmuta  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:01:08pm

re: #77 pingjockey

Was that a good read?

It's a great read. The chapter on the Soviets is dated, but can just as easily be read from a war on terror perspective.

106 jaunte  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:01:19pm

re: #104 Racer X

Cagey critters, ain't they.

107 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:01:29pm

re: #104 Racer X

Everyone and their brother has a camera cell phone now. How come we hardly ever hear anything about UFOs or bigfoot any more?

Your question answers itself.

108 jcm  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:01:30pm

re: #104 Racer X

Everyone and their brother has a camera cell phone now. How come we hardly ever hear anything about UFOs or bigfoot any more?

The chemtrail formulas are working much better now.

109 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:01:51pm

re: #103 albusteve
Heh. Some of the yahoos I see when I go hunting scare the hell out of me and now we've got legal aliens who can get a permit and license to own a firearm and go hunting!

110 legalpad  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:02:15pm

re: #91 albusteve

how do you know Bigfoot is not real?...reverse trooferism?

Basic population biology indicates that a certain population is necessary to avoid extinction. If there are any, there should be more, and we would see them and/or signs thereof. Same with Loch Ness.

111 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:02:16pm

re: #99 HelloDare

You mean like Republicans under Bush had an unchangeable belief in small government?

I did. I bitched a storm about it. Bush was a Christian-Socialist, regardless of what kool-aid drinkers believed. The only things he did that didn't piss me off was to live in the real world with regards to foreign policy and lower taxes a little.

112 Mashiki  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:02:17pm

I always was a subscriber to the view that anytime you had to use dishonesty to prove a point, you were diminishing your view. The problem in today's media is, many people who see something on TV or in video believe it to be factual instead of questioning everything.

The funny thing is I'll bet these scientists believed they were doing a good and great thing, and got swept up in it. Not forgetting what Charles mentioned earlier. But they took something at face value, or didn't have their undergrads vet them properly before accepting the interviews.

113 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:02:17pm

re: #105 Sharmuta
Thanks.

114 HypnoToad  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:02:28pm

re: #97 CyanSnowHawk

Wave the next time you drive by a blue Escape with a pony-tailed driver who votes Republican and accepts evolution.

Will do! (assuming that you frequent the 210, and are tolerant of displaced cheeseheads)

115 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:02:38pm

re: #102 jcm

And when they don't know why, they are easily swayed by seemly well meaning, popular or expedient policies which are antithetical to classical liberalism.

Exactly.

116 Unakite  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:02:59pm

re: #100 HypnoToad

The problem is, I like to argue. And I get into some doozys starting from astronomy of all things. I mention the distances and ages of things to some of the viewers at my telescope and we veer off into the religiosphere.

Telescopes and religion don't mix. :)

117 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:03:02pm

I saw this on the news last night:

"May Allah be with you always Michael. Love you."

Jermaine Jackson reacts to his brother's death, as a life filled with triumph and turmoil ends suddenly.

Did MJ convert?

118 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:03:13pm

re: #109 pingjockey

Heh. Some of the yahoos I see when I go hunting scare the hell out of me and now we've got legal aliens who can get a permit and license to own a firearm and go hunting!

you look like a 8 pt buck...be careful

119 Racer X  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:04:10pm

re: #106 jaunte

Cagey critters, ain't they.

Wait, you're not implying that they're not real are you? I'm devastated!

120 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:04:33pm

re: #110 legalpad

Basic population biology indicates that a certain population is necessary to avoid extinction. If there are any, there should be more, and we would see them and/or signs thereof. Same with Loch Ness.

maybe they have infiltrated...like the local school board, or Burger King...

121 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:04:35pm

re: #114 HypnoToad

Will do! (assuming that you frequent the 210, and are tolerant of displaced cheeseheads)

More often the 15, down around San Diego.

122 eon  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:04:49pm

re: #104 Racer X

Everyone and their brother has a camera cell phone now. How come we hardly ever hear anything about UFOs or bigfoot any more?

Precisely because the first thing anyone would ask is, "Did you get it on your camera?" While such footage can be faked with CGI, it's fairly easy to tell that it has been.

One thing the cellular revolution has accomplished is to make hoaxing a much more difficult thing to get away with.

Well, I have to retire. Early morning tomorrow.

Good night, Lizards.

Sleep well.

cheers

eon

123 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:05:07pm

re: #104 Racer X

Everyone and their brother has a camera cell phone now. How come we hardly ever hear anything about UFOs or bigfoot any more?

What? You don't listen to Coast to Coast AM?

124 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:05:08pm

Looking at tonites tv guide, I'm reminded of a Calvin and Hobbes Cartoon. Calvin is reading a line from Marx..."religion is the opiate of the masses" and hobbes looks at the tv and says "Marx hadn't seen anything yet"! 70 channels of crap! Need to visit the bookstore tomorrow!

125 jcm  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:05:24pm

re: #122 eon

Night eon!

126 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:05:25pm

re: #117 NJDhockeyfan

I saw this on the news last night:

Did MJ convert?

There was little about him that wasn't converting in some manner or other.

127 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:05:32pm

re: #118 albusteve
NO SHIT!

128 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:05:33pm

re: #90 Sharmuta

Goldwater is The Man, and I highly recommend Lizards read The Conscience of a Conservative. It's a short read and inexpensive.

An early example of two of Goldwater's interests combined.
The rare North American P-64 in flight, "Photo taken by Lt. Barry Goldwater over Luke Field, Ariz. in late 1941 or early 1942. (U.S. Air Force photo)"

129 freetoken  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:06:17pm

re: #76 CyanSnowHawk

It's possible that Darrell Issa R-Vista CA does, but he does represent Vista, a place that has had problems with creationist school boards in the past. Nothing at all about education on his website, but he is known for favoring local education control. I have no idea if that is an indicator of a creation/ID supporter.

You might want to watch the video at this link, where Maher has a guest panel that includes Issa along with Penn Gillete, then get back with us:

[Link: www.onegoodmove.org...]

130 jaunte  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:06:35pm

re: #119 Racer X

Wait, you're not implying that they're not real are you? I'm devastated!

No they've just moved farther out. The Twilight Zone will always expand to be just past the point where we have accurate data.

131 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:06:43pm

re: #127 pingjockey

NO SHIT!

lose the antlers dood

132 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:06:47pm

re: #123 HelloDare
Mwahaha! Since I don't work swing shift anymore, I haven't heard it in a couple of years.

133 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:06:59pm

re: #126 CyanSnowHawk

There was little about him that wasn't converting in some manner or other.

converted.
PIMF

134 HypnoToad  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:07:04pm

re: #116 Unakite

Telescopes and religion don't mix. :)

I've had several (usually older) neighbors refuse to even look through one over the years. Instrument of the devil and all....

135 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:08:12pm

re: #134 HypnoToad
What? Really? I have never had the misfortune to know people like that.

136 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:08:45pm

re: #120 albusteve

maybe they have infiltrated...like the local school board, or Burger King...

Some years ago, the annual psychic predictions for the new year at Weekly World News included one that a "family of Bigfoot monsters would be discovered living on welfare in Terre Haute Indiana."
I immediately asked the obvious question, "Why Terre Haute?" but never got a satisfactory answer.

137 Unakite  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:09:03pm

re: #134 HypnoToad

I've had several (usually older) neighbors refuse to even look through one over the years. Instrument of the devil and all....

Well, guess I'm going to h*ll. What about binoculars? they wouldn't be able to see so far, so the universe wouldn't be so old...just askin'

138 Silvergirl  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:09:54pm

Notice how MJ sneaks into every thread.

I hereby pledge to drop all MJ references until after his funeral. And maybe forever.

139 avanti  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:10:33pm

Nate Silver at 538 has a take on the Senate chances for the cap and trade bill.

Nate.

140 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:10:35pm

re: #135 pingjockey

What? Really? I have never had the misfortune to know people like that.

Apparently they don't care to see Satan's trickery magnified.

/

141 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:10:44pm

re: #128 Shiplord Kirel

An early example of two of Goldwater's interests combined.
The rare North American P-64 in flight, "Photo taken by Lt. Barry Goldwater over Luke Field, Ariz. in late 1941 or early 1942. (U.S. Air Force photo)"

good lord what a stumpy unpretty little thing...and from North American!...I've never seen this airplane....certainly not a forerunner to the Mustang

142 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:11:11pm

re: #140 ArchangelMichael
That is sad.

143 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:11:50pm

re: #136 Shiplord Kirel

Some years ago, the annual psychic predictions for the new year at Weekly World News included one that a "family of Bigfoot monsters would be discovered living on welfare in Terre Haute Indiana."
I immediately asked the obvious question, "Why Terre Haute?" but never got a satisfactory answer.

haha!....maybe because nobody would recognize them?

144 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:11:50pm

re: #141 albusteve

good lord what a stumpy unpretty little thing...and from North American!...I've never seen this airplane....certainly not a forerunner to the Mustang

It's Obama's and Gate's answer for the unbuilt F-22s

145 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:12:02pm

re: #129 freetoken

You might want to watch the video at this link, where Maher has a guest panel that includes Issa along with Penn Gillete, then get back with us:

[Link: www.onegoodmove.org...]

Aw crap. I was hoping he wasn't one of those. I like him because he is a successful businessman that seems to have good economic policies.

146 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:12:04pm

re: #134 HypnoToad

I've had several (usually older) neighbors refuse to even look through one over the years. Instrument of the devil and all....


Maybe they were afraid they'd get a ring of ink around their eye.

147 freetoken  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:12:46pm

Oh, about Issa, since he is one of those who is harping about the exclusion of that analyst's report about (allegedly) climate change, at the EPA, the report that relied in part on information from an astrologer... I wouldn't put much bet on Issa really giving a damn about science.

148 legalpad  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:12:48pm

re: #120 albusteve

maybe they have infiltrated...like the local school board, or Burger King...

good examples!

149 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:13:51pm

re: #148 legalpad

good examples!

I was only kidding about Burger King

150 HypnoToad  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:14:25pm

re: #137 Unakite

Well,
guess I'm going to h*ll. What about binoculars? they wouldn't be able
to see so far, so the universe wouldn't be so old...just askin'

re: #135 pingjockey

I give a lot of public starparties, so I meet all kinds of people. That includes those who know that telescopes can see through the marine layer clouds when they come in, to those that insist that the crescent Venus is the Moon.

151 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:14:49pm

re: #129 freetoken

You might want to watch the video at this link, where Maher has a guest panel that includes Issa along with Penn Gillete, then get back with us:

[Link: www.onegoodmove.org...]

From that link: Penn Gillete: "Crazy Motherfucker!"

You can always rely on Mr. Gillete to say what he really thinks, if not more so. Good quality.

152 Sharmuta  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:15:06pm

Is LGF running slow for anyone else? Ajax is taking forever to load stuff, and I can't get the spy up.

This comment took minutes before telling me I wasn't logged in. Then it took minutes to log back in. Time at this moment is 8:13 pm pacific....

153 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:15:21pm

re: #150 HypnoToad
Well, at least you can get the education started off right!

154 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:15:44pm

re: #144 Nevergiveup

It's Obama's and Gate's answer for the unbuilt F-22s

he'll veto the defense bill because of the F-22...about a billion for 12 more...the bill is over 500b I think....go figure...it's not the plane, it's his twisted ideal

155 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:15:54pm

re: #152 Sharmuta
No issues...so far.

156 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:16:38pm

re: #152 Sharmuta

Is LGF running slow for anyone else? Ajax is taking forever to load stuff, and I can't get the spy up.

This comment took minutes before telling me I wasn't logged in. Then it took minutes to log back in. Time at this moment is 8:13 pm pacific....

no, Firefox here...fast as all get out

157 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:16:57pm

re: #152 Sharmuta

"I can't get the spy up." Hahahahahaha. /thinks of several witty retorts.

/sorry.

Oh - to answer your question - not me.

158 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:17:27pm

I find Bill Maher is insufferable even when he is saying something I agree with.

159 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:17:51pm

re: #156 albusteve

no, Firefox here...fast as all get out

I'm using Safari - works like a dream (knock on wood).

160 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:17:53pm

re: #157 Catttt

"I can't get the spy up." Hahahahahaha. /thinks of several witty retorts.

/sorry.

Oh - to answer your question - not me.

'the Spy Who Could Not Love Me'.....

161 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:18:09pm

re: #154 albusteve

he'll veto the defense bill because of the F-22...about a billion for 12 more...the bill is over 500b I think....go figure...it's not the plane, it's his twisted ideal

They've got it in their heads that the plane was designed to fight against the Cold War Soviet Air Force and completely ignore that fact that Russia and China still don't like us all that much, still develop new weapons, and often sell them to anyone that will pay.

162 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:18:11pm

re: #158 HelloDare

I could happily beat him with a clue by four.

163 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:18:48pm

re: #154 albusteve

he'll veto the defense bill because of the F-22...about a billion for 12 more...the bill is over 500b I think....go figure...it's not the plane, it's his twisted ideal

It's not the cost. Not building 12 more will shut down the line and that will be the end of all F-22 production. Too expensive to restart the line after that.

164 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:18:54pm

No, no, no! Don't these stupid scientists realize that contrary facts are the same as troublesome fossils...they're both put there by the Devil, and can be resisted with God's help.
/

165 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:19:00pm

re: #160 albusteve

'the Spy Who Could Not Love Me'.....

The Spy Who Came in for the Viagra.

166 HypnoToad  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:19:24pm

re: #153 pingjockey

Well, at least you can get the education started off right!

The one hopeful thing that I've observed recently among the folks in line to look, is that often the kids are much better informed about astronomy than their parents.

167 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:19:25pm

re: #161 ArchangelMichael

They've got it in their heads that the plane was designed to fight against the Cold War Soviet Air Force and completely ignore that fact that Russia and China still don't like us all that much, still develop new weapons, and often sell them to anyone that will pay.

You must be a right wing ideologue? Kinda like me.

168 jcm  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:19:30pm

re: #150 HypnoToad

re: #135 pingjockey

I give a lot of public starparties, so I meet all kinds of people. That includes those who know that telescopes can see through the marine layer clouds when they come in, to those that insist that the crescent Venus is the Moon.

I was given a telescope and H. A. Rey's The Stars as a kid.
Spent many an evening star gazing, the village in Iran where we lived was 30 miles from the nearest electric light.
Awesome stuff.

169 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:19:42pm

re: #159 Catttt

I'm using Safari - works like a dream (knock on wood).

Safari would not read so many pages I finally dumped it...I think it had issues with my Kaspersky security....I'll never know, but it just shut down all the time....speedy tho

170 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:19:46pm

As the pain sets in the conservative base will move naturally towards Romney. I know I have. He has staked his positions, and the times they are a changin' so to say.

The novelty acts of 2008 (black, female, whatever) will be pretty shop worn as the times get tougher...and all indications are that they will.

Policy don't matter much 'till it hits you smack in the kisser.

171 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:20:23pm

re: #165 Catttt

The Spy Who Came in for the Viagra.

Roger Moore is returning as Bond?
/

172 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:20:30pm

re: #156 albusteve

no, Firefox here...fast as all get out

Same here.

BTW...thanks for the great videos earlier. My kinda music.

:)

173 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:20:39pm

re: #163 CyanSnowHawk

It's not the cost. Not building 12 more will shut down the line and that will be the end of all F-22 production. Too expensive to restart the line after that.

Exactly! Oh it's also the cost for them.

174 Silvergirl  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:20:41pm

re: #158 HelloDare

I find Bill Maher is insufferable even when he is saying something I agree with.

I do try. I fight it when I find I'm responding negatively to the actual person and not only to what they're saying. Yet . . . there is just an ickyness factor I cannot get past when it comes to Bill Maher.

175 Sharmuta  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:20:43pm

I should probably be working on something else anyways. We are spoiled, so that when something here isn't working quite right, it's a major pain in the bum.

176 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:20:49pm

re: #161 ArchangelMichael
They are goddamned idiots. Our Air Force should always be ahead of everyone else. The rest of the military too, for that matter. We have the smarts, the tech and the ability to always be second to none. Coming in second in defense gets you dead.

177 TexasDude  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:20:56pm

LGF tricks itself into believing it is relevant.

178 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:21:13pm

re: #164 ShanghaiEd

No, no, no! Don't these stupid scientists realize that contrary facts are the same as troublesome fossils...they're both put there by the Devil, and can be resisted with God's help.
/

Jeez, don't you know anything. They were put their by God to test our faith. /

179 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:21:15pm

re: #172 NJDhockeyfan

Same here.

BTW...thanks for the great videos earlier. My kinda music.

:)

welcome

180 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:21:50pm

re: #166 HypnoToad
My boys have a leg up. Dad being a retired squid and all.

181 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:22:19pm

re: #141 albusteve

good lord what a stumpy unpretty little thing...and from North American!...I've never seen this airplane....certainly not a forerunner to the Mustang

It was basically a fighter derivative of the NA-16 trainer series (whose best known member was the AT-6 Texan). The original single seat model was the NA-50, 7 of which were built for Peru in 1938-39. It had a larger engine than the AT-6, a low powered (870hp) version of the R-1820 Cyclone. The Peruvians knew it wasn't up to great power standards of performance but they liked it for its low cost, tough all-metal structure, and modern features such as flaps, retractable undercarriage, constant speed prop, and good radios. It was armed with 2 rifle caliber machine guns and could carry 220 lbs of bombs. It met local requirements quite well and the Peruvians used it with some success in their border war with Ecuador in 1941 and one is preserved there to this day.
A slightly modified batch of six were built for Thailand late in 1940, with the company designation NA-68. These were embargoed in 1941 and turned over to the AAF, who gave it the fighter designation P-64. They were used as hacks and advanced trainers at Luke Field and were reportedly well-liked by the instructors, including Goldwater. One of these is also still in existence.

182 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:22:21pm

re: #176 pingjockey

They are goddamned idiots. Our Air Force should always be ahead of everyone else. The rest of the military too, for that matter. We have the smarts, the tech and the ability to always be second to none. Coming in second in defense gets you dead.

Just ask the Carthaginians.

183 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:22:22pm

re: #152 Sharmuta

Is LGF running slow for anyone else? Ajax is taking forever to load stuff, and I can't get the spy up.

This comment took minutes before telling me I wasn't logged in. Then it took minutes to log back in. Time at this moment is 8:13 pm pacific....

I've been having trouble the past day or so. Keep getting logged out, pages take forever to load, etc.

184 Silvergirl  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:22:22pm

re: #177 TexasDude

What? Who are you? And why are you representing Texas in such an ill-mannered way?

185 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:22:39pm

re: #174 Silvergirl

I do try. I fight it when I find I'm responding negatively to the actual person and not only to what they're saying. Yet . . . there is just an ickyness factor I cannot get past when it comes to Bill Maher.

I agree. I am thankful that he has not procreated.

186 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:22:41pm

re: #177 TexasDude
What?

187 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:22:56pm

re: #163 CyanSnowHawk

It's not the cost. Not building 12 more will shut down the line and that will be the end of all F-22 production. Too expensive to restart the line after that.

it's a small price on the return...very disturbing he will do this...almost juvenile attitude but that's what I expect from him...like a little kid

188 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:23:23pm

re: #177 TexasDude

LGF tricks itself into believing it is relevant.

Working hard to get a higher neg Karma than comment count I see. Are you that guy from the education board?

189 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:23:47pm

re: #170 The Shadow Do

The novelty acts of 2008 (black, female, whatever)


Shoulda' added pseudo-hillbilly, sorry Huck.

190 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:23:56pm

re: #177 TexasDude

LGF tricks itself into believing it is relevant.

And you trick yourself into thinking that anyone remotely gives 2 squirts of piss about your opinion.

191 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:23:59pm

33 posts in almost 2 years? Yep, a veritable font of wisdom.

192 ryannon  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:24:30pm

re: #136 Shiplord Kirel

Some years ago, the annual psychic predictions for the new year at Weekly World News included one that a "family of Bigfoot monsters would be discovered living on welfare in Terre Haute Indiana."
I immediately asked the obvious question, "Why Terre Haute?" but never got a satisfactory answer.

Rents were too high in Indianapolis.

193 Sharmuta  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:24:54pm

re: #177 TexasDude

LGF tricks itself into believing it is relevant.

It was relevant enough for you to feel you had to log in.

194 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:25:05pm

re: #177 TexasDude

LGF tricks itself into believing it is relevant.

Austin?

195 jcm  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:25:09pm

re: #177 TexasDude

LGF tricks itself into believing it is relevant.

TexasDude
(Logged in)
Registered since: Aug 4, 2007 at 6:26 pm
No. of comments posted: 33
No. of links posted: 0

Since it's not relevant, in your opinion.......

Go someplace that is.

196 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:25:31pm

re: #164 ShanghaiEd

No, no, no! Don't these stupid scientists realize that contrary facts are the same as troublesome fossils...they're both put there by the Devil, and can be resisted with God's help.
/

I'm thinking of getting the tee shirt "Wickedosity" from despairwair.

Charles, the lizards should chip in and get these shirts for some of your stalkers. :D

197 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:25:44pm

A puppet?

198 Unakite  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:25:58pm

re: #150 HypnoToad

re: #135 pingjockey

I give a lot of public starparties, so I meet all kinds of people. That includes those who know that telescopes can see through the marine layer clouds when they come in, to those that insist that the crescent Venus is the Moon.

Heh...I belonged to a local astronomical society when I was younger and enjoyed the star parties. Maybe more so because they weren't public.

I got in a fight one time with another kid because he was pointing to the Pleiades and telling me they were the big dipper (assh*le). :)

199 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:26:00pm

re: #181 Shiplord Kirel

thanks for the skinny...it looks so outdated compared to the P51, P38 and Corsaires...kind of a dead end I guess

200 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:26:11pm

re: #177 TexasDude

LGF tricks itself into believing it is relevant.

Explain to me how LGF does that.

201 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:26:28pm

Obama channeling Bush...

The Obama administration, fearing a battle with Congress that could stall plans to close the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, is drafting an executive order that would reassert presidential authority to incarcerate terrorism suspects indefinitely, according to three senior government officials with knowledge of White House deliberations.

Heads soon to be exploding at DKos.

202 HypnoToad  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:26:32pm

re: #168 jcm

I was given a telescope and H. A. Rey's The Stars as a kid.
Spent many an evening star gazing, the village in Iran where we lived was 30 miles from the nearest electric light.
Awesome stuff.

I've heard from a co worker who used to travel there often, that amateur astronomy is quite popular in Iran, especially with the ladies. I fear that the recent brutal crackdown will curtail that as well.

203 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:26:32pm

Oh yeah, I totally forgot this was a creationist thread. So it took 177 comments before they started coming out of the woodwork.

204 Racer X  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:26:57pm

re: #177 TexasDude

And for the next trick - you go poof.

Ta-da!

205 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:27:13pm

re: #203 ArchangelMichael
Looks like we forgot the over/under!

206 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:27:13pm

re: #203 ArchangelMichael

Oh yeah, I totally forgot this was a creationist thread. So it took 177 comments before they started coming out of the woodwork.

It's called thinning the herd

207 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:27:20pm

re: #203 ArchangelMichael

It used to take much less.

208 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:27:23pm

We are all very tricky, but relevent, honcos here...

209 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:27:26pm

re: #191 pingjockey

33 posts in almost 2 years? Yep, a veritable font of wisdom.

Well he/she/it qualifies to be a professor at Columbia.

210 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:27:35pm

re: #169 albusteve

Safari would not read so many pages I finally dumped it...I think it had issues with my Kaspersky security....I'll never know, but it just shut down all the time....speedy tho

My Firefox was always crashing "for my own good." Apparently, I have bad taste. I had to download a shareware program to get it to stop resetting me to "safe surf."

211 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:27:49pm

are we out of cookies?

212 Racer X  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:28:33pm

re: #210 Catttt

My Firefox was always crashing "for my own good." Apparently, I have bad taste. I had to download a shareware program to get it to stop resetting me to "safe surf."

Do tell.

213 TexasDude  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:28:55pm

Ahhh ... the wonderful retort of those who can't really form a good argument.

At one time, this website was found to be in the forefront of conservative politics.

Today, it's main concern (and maybe, in reality, its only concern after all) was its founder's own prejudices.

A center left individual who found that being center left after 9-11 meant you championed those who actually committed the horrible acts. However, today, this individual is going back to his instincts ... center left.

No surprise. Just as his lackeys attempt to engage me in poor, pathetic attempts at debate.

214 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:29:00pm

I wonder what Abigail van Buren would make of some of the present day wackiness out there:

Dear Abby,
My husband thinks the earth is just 6000 years old and he calls me crazy because I saw Bigfoot once. How do I resolve this?
-RINO in Texas

Dear Rino,
Get professional help; professional scientists, theologians, and investigators that is. Oh, and dump the crazy bastard while you're at it.

215 ryannon  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:29:07pm

re: #177 TexasDude

LGF tricks itself into believing it is relevant.

It's all done with mirrors.

Charles is the Intertube's David Copperfield.

216 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:29:40pm

re: #177 TexasDude

LGF tricks itself into believing it is relevant.

Oh, bother. Whatever will I do with that little nugget of wisdom ?

217 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:29:52pm

re: #209 NJDhockeyfan
Pretty sad. I have a friend whose daughter is going to Harvard! I asked him if he'd lost his mind, for she surely would! Well, she grew up farming apples and cherries and will graduate and still has her mind! I was very impressed. Can't imagine how tough it would be to deal with that many idiots, who are surer than hell about how smart they are.

218 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:29:59pm

re: #210 Catttt

My Firefox was always crashing "for my own good." Apparently, I have bad taste. I had to download a shareware program to get it to stop resetting me to "safe surf."

Mine did the same thing. It only happens when I'm connected by dial up. If I have fast speed it never crashes.

219 MandyManners  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:30:08pm

re: #177 TexasDude

LGF tricks itself into believing it is relevant.

Oh, go piss up a rope.

220 Racer X  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:30:10pm

re: #213 TexasDude

I feel so empowered.

221 jcm  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:30:31pm

re: #202 HypnoToad

I've heard from a co worker who used to travel there often, that amateur astronomy is quite popular in Iran, especially with the ladies. I fear that the recent brutal crackdown will curtail that as well.

High mountain desert, no lights.
You could really see the stars, summer we'd sleep outside. I'd just stare up for he longest time.

222 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:30:45pm

re: #210 Catttt

My Firefox was always crashing "for my own good." Apparently, I have bad taste. I had to download a shareware program to get it to stop resetting me to "safe surf."

I recently splurged on a new computer. Firefox now officially sucks - not Vista friendly. I am using the much reviled, but now very friendly Explorer. Never thought that would happen.

223 HelloDare  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:30:53pm

re: #203 ArchangelMichael

Oh yeah, I totally forgot this was a creationist thread. So it took 177 comments before they started coming out of the woodwork.

Them.

224 austin_blue  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:30:57pm

re: #4 solomonpanting

And for good reason.

"If we can't be honest and up front, we'll deceive 'em."

Creationist creed

I am going to post this and duck:

"Thank God the anti-global warming groups, funded by Exxon/Mobil et al, would never stoop so low as to interview active researchers and edit their words to distort their positions. Thank God these groups, funded by Exxon/Mobil et al, have placed the vast majority of their bottomless dollars in funding a large group of eminent scientists, secure in their livelihoods because of that bottomless funding, in counter research-showing, through peer-reviewed studies, that AGW is being overstated by other peer-reviewed research, rather than doing what the tobacco companies did for decades until they looked like grasping fools."

(Now in the bomb shelter, anticipating brickbats. Be gentle. I really do want to discuss this rationally. I just see a huge cognizant disconnect here.)

225 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:31:01pm

re: #210 Catttt

My Firefox was always crashing "for my own good." Apparently, I have bad taste. I had to download a shareware program to get it to stop resetting me to "safe surf."

FFox winks out for me once in a great while...but starts right back up really fast...issues I have no clue about...I don't like it's Favorites set up but very pleased otherwise...I hate browsers that treat me like an idiot

226 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:31:16pm

re: #213 TexasDude
You consider socon thought to be the fore front of conservative politics?

227 MandyManners  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:31:37pm

re: #219 MandyManners

Oh, go piss up a rope.

I might be late but, yeah, well. So?

228 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:31:49pm

Michael Jackson, who was with a cardiologist when he collapsed at his rented home in Los Angeles, appeared to have suffered a heart attack, a person with knowledge of the situation told The Associated Press.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Dr. Conrad Murray, a cardiologist --you got to see his picture posturing in front of his fancy clinic. Maybe it's just me but this can't be good for his reputation.

229 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:31:55pm

re: #222 The Shadow Do

I recently splurged on a new computer. Firefox now officially sucks - not Vista friendly. I am using the much reviled, but now very friendly Explorer. Never thought that would happen.

I'm using Firefox on Vista and never had a problem.

230 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:31:59pm

re: #213 TexasDude

You're offering debate? Who knew.

231 Sharmuta  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:32:19pm

re: #213 TexasDude

You have no argument- just vitriol. Go back to the stalker site.

232 Racer X  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:32:26pm

OK. 3 guesses as to why they were pulled over?

233 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:33:43pm

re: #217 pingjockey

Pretty sad. I have a friend whose daughter is going to Harvard! I asked him if he'd lost his mind, for she surely would! Well, she grew up farming apples and cherries and will graduate and still has her mind! I was very impressed. Can't imagine how tough it would be to deal with that many idiots, who are surer than hell about how smart they are.

I have a friend who's 2 sons are in Grad School at Columbia. They hate many of the people there. I went to visit them in their lab a few weeks ago and happen to be in Uniform. Heads were popping all over campus as i walked by.

234 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:33:48pm

re: #217 pingjockey

Pretty sad. I have a friend whose daughter is going to Harvard! I asked him if he'd lost his mind, for she surely would! Well, she grew up farming apples and cherries and will graduate and still has her mind! I was very impressed. Can't imagine how tough it would be to deal with that many idiots, who are surer than hell about how smart they are.

my son went to U of M in Ann Arbor....he survived nicely...he can spot a lunatic liberal a mile away too...it depends on how idealistic and impressionable kids are when they go off

235 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:33:53pm

re: #232 Racer X

OK. 3 guesses as to why they were pulled over?

Bald tires?

236 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:34:04pm

re: #177 TexasDude

LGF tricks itself into believing it is relevant.

You need a dose of Kradam!

237 jaunte  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:34:20pm

"Only those who are completely without self-knowledge think they are entirely rational on every subject, and that this licenses attacking others for their perceived failings in that respect."
-- John Wilkins

238 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:34:24pm

re: #224 austin_blue
So the pro AGW groups aren't lying? I would pay good money for real no bullshit studies and let the chips fall where they may. But, that isn't gonna happen. Too many vested interests on both sides.

239 austin_blue  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:34:29pm

re: #213 TexasDude

Ahhh ... the wonderful retort of those who can't really form a good argument.

At one time, this website was found to be in the forefront of conservative politics.

Today, it's main concern (and maybe, in reality, its only concern after all) was its founder's own prejudices.

A center left individual who found that being center left after 9-11 meant you championed those who actually committed the horrible acts. However, today, this individual is going back to his instincts ... center left.

No surprise. Just as his lackeys attempt to engage me in poor, pathetic attempts at debate.

Whaa?

240 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:34:37pm

re: #212 Racer X

Do tell.

We don't need no stinkin' safe surf.

241 Sharmuta  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:34:43pm

Argument. What argument is that TexasDude? You've done nothing but insult, not debate. You know there's a difference, don't you?

242 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:34:45pm

Huh? What? Is something happening in here?

Oh, I see, another Nirther/creationist melting down. Carry on.

243 jcm  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:34:45pm

re: #232 Racer X

OK. 3 guesses as to why they were pulled over?

Commando Speeding?

244 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:34:49pm

re: #233 Nevergiveup
Mwahahaha! Cool!

245 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:34:56pm

re: #226 pingjockey

You consider socon thought to be the fore front of conservative politics?

The socons are going to ride the great tsunami of traditional marriage and ID right into the White House in 2012. Then they're gonna party like it's 1699.

246 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:35:07pm

re: #222 The Shadow Do

I recently splurged on a new computer. Firefox now officially sucks - not Vista friendly. I am using the much reviled, but now very friendly Explorer. Never thought that would happen.

I still use XP...IE works well too for me

247 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:35:22pm

re: #224 austin_blue

I am going to post this and duck:

"Thank God the anti-global warming groups, funded by Exxon/Mobil et al, would never stoop so low as to interview active researchers and edit their words to distort their positions. Thank God these groups, funded by Exxon/Mobil et al, have placed the vast majority of their bottomless dollars in funding a large group of eminent scientists, secure in their livelihoods because of that bottomless funding, in counter research-showing, through peer-reviewed studies, that AGW is being overstated by other peer-reviewed research, rather than doing what the tobacco companies did for decades until they looked like grasping fools."

(Now in the bomb shelter, anticipating brickbats. Be gentle. I really do want to discuss this rationally. I just see a huge cognizant disconnect here.)

And we all know that the funding source calls the shots with the research don't we? So, I wonder what the expected outcome of the federal research dollars is?

248 ryannon  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:35:22pm

re: #232 Racer X

OK. 3 guesses as to why they were pulled over?

The girl is not wearing a proper helmet.

Next question?

249 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:35:57pm

re: #234 albusteve
Yep. Maybe she'll get along far enough to run for office one day. The woman is sharper than hell.

250 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:36:05pm

re: #228 Nevergiveup

Michael Jackson, who was with a cardiologist when he collapsed at his rented home in Los Angeles, appeared to have suffered a heart attack, a person with knowledge of the situation told The Associated Press.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Dr. Conrad Murray, a cardiologist --you got to see his picture posturing in front of his fancy clinic. Maybe it's just me but this can't be good for his reputation.

don't look in that mirror!...oh shit

251 Unakite  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:36:13pm

re: #222 The Shadow Do

I recently splurged on a new computer. Firefox now officially sucks - not Vista friendly. I am using the much reviled, but now very friendly Explorer. Never thought that would happen.

Vista not friendly with a lot of stuff. However, I'm using Firefox and no problems.

252 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:36:13pm

re: #229 NJDhockeyfan

I'm using Firefox on Vista and never had a problem.

No hang ups on video? No brain lock/restarts? I must be missing some exstension/add ons whathaveyou. I gave up. I am pleasantly surprised by Explorer which I hadn't used for years.

253 HypnoToad  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:36:22pm

re: #221 jcm

High mountain desert, no lights.
You could really see the stars, summer we'd sleep outside. I'd just stare up for he longest time.

I think that Cities are one of the worst things to have happened to peoples ability to appreciate science. They have seperated us from the natural world, both here and above.

254 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:36:31pm

re: #245 Shiplord Kirel
Mwahaha! Fucking asshats.

255 Ramona  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:36:31pm

re: #13 Dr. Shalit

Excellent question. No, it does not disprove his theory, but let's sling a little mud anyways. Mud some times works as a distraction.

256 freetoken  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:37:12pm

re: #238 pingjockey

Thousands of scientific publications on AGW have been published over the years, in the leading peer-review journals dealing with Earth Science, Physics, and general science.

You just don't like the answer.

257 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:38:07pm

re: #177 TexasDude

LGF tricks itself into believing it is relevant.

He shoots, he scores.

Karma: -38
No. of comments posted: 34
This user is blocked.

258 jcm  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:38:09pm

re: #253 HypnoToad

I think that Cities are one of the worst things to have happened to peoples ability to appreciate science. They have seperated us from the natural world, both here and above.

Good point, no idea he power of nature, we're so well insulated from it.

259 freetoken  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:38:28pm

re: #228 Nevergiveup

Yeah, no kidding. His next advert: "Come see me, Michael Jackson did, and lived a whole extra 35 minutes!"

260 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:38:47pm

re: #251 Unakite

Vista not friendly with a lot of stuff. However, I'm using Firefox and no problems.

I like Vista, lots of new tricks to be learned. Pretty cool, but then again I migrated from bloody ME!

261 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:39:20pm

re: #256 freetoken
Anytime I hear the words 'consensus' and science' together I get a little concerned. Too much conflicting data. I guarentee you turning the USA into a 3rd world country will do nothing to stop AGW if true.

262 jaunte  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:39:35pm

re: #257 CyanSnowHawk

That was a short argument; I was expecting him to try to make a point.

263 MandyManners  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:40:04pm

re: #213 TexasDude

Ahhh ... the wonderful retort of those who can't really form a good argument.

At one time, this website was found to be in the forefront of conservative politics.

Today, it's main concern (and maybe, in reality, its only concern after all) was its founder's own prejudices.

A center left individual who found that being center left after 9-11 meant you championed those who actually committed the horrible acts. However, today, this individual is going back to his instincts ... center left.

No surprise. Just as his lackeys attempt to engage me in poor, pathetic attempts at debate.

Suck my left nut.

264 elBarto  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:40:36pm

The scientific consensus is that it is friday night

265 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:40:54pm

re: #252 The Shadow Do

No hang ups on video? No brain lock/restarts? I must be missing some exstension/add ons whathaveyou. I gave up. I am pleasantly surprised by Explorer which I hadn't used for years.

The only add on I have is Fireshot and Norton put a couple on there as well. IE seems to be much slower for me. I have Mozilla/5.0.

266 Racer X  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:41:11pm

Soccer tickets = $40
Beer and popcorn = $30

Being escorted out in handcuffs for showing your tits = Priceless!

*SFW

267 austin_blue  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:41:13pm

re: #238 pingjockey

So the pro AGW groups aren't lying? I would pay good money for real no bullshit studies and let the chips fall where they may. But, that isn't gonna happen. Too many vested interests on both sides.

Tobacco. Tobacco. Tobacco. Did they do peer reviewed research? Yes. Did it keep getting shot down? Yes. Did they continue to deny? Yes. In the immortal words of Dr. Phil, "How's that working for ya?"

Are the AGW groups lying. Not on the science. It is clear and getting more robust every day. That's the way science works. It's not the way PR works, which is why the anti-AGW groups are PR firms simply poking holes in the research until the holes are plugged. Then they look for more holes rather than doing research. Same as the tobacco companies. It is cost effective for Exxon/Mobil et al. It maximized shareholder value for the short term.

268 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:41:30pm

re: #263 MandyManners
We will get no coherent debate from this one.

269 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:41:45pm

re: #263 MandyManners

Suck my left nut.

Oh my, now Texas Dude is really, really confused. LOL

270 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:42:13pm

re: #254 pingjockey

Mwahaha! Fucking asshats.

No, I am not an asshat!

But here's the thing - conservative "social" issues are not the ones that need to be the political issues of any conservative party. The political issues need to be focused on small gov't and fiscal issues; when that's in place, then everyone will be free to be as socially conservative or liberal as they want to be.

I did not say that as well as I could have - but I think the gist is there.

271 jcm  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:42:15pm

re: #264 elBarto

The scientific consensus is that it is friday night

DRINK!

272 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:42:32pm

re: #268 pingjockey

We will get no coherent debate from this one.

he's dead, Jim

273 jaunte  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:42:39pm

re: #268 pingjockey

The nut left.

274 Unakite  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:42:54pm

re: #263 MandyManners

Suck my left nut.

You have a left ...?
//

275 jaunte  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:43:12pm

re: #274 Unakite

(On her mantel).

276 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:43:44pm

And I missed all this new creationist fun because I was watching on TV how the Somali pirates finally got their stupid brains blown out by the Seals.

I'm not entirely convinced that I should even known that whole story, but it is worth mentioning that none of of it would have happened had not the American crew done their very major part earlier. I don't think there have been any other American ships hijacked. (not many ship are US registered these days. Why is that?)

Too bad the rest of the world hasn't paid attention.

As far the OP and creationists go; God is on their side, so what is there to discuss?

Goodnight.

278 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:44:04pm

re: #263 MandyManners

Suck my left nut.

You don't have nuts, Mandy. And he couldn't suck them even if you did, since Charles banned his ass. I've just got home, but I've already got the charcoal. Texas Roast Troll will be served in 27 minutes. Please place drink and side dish orders now.

279 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:44:08pm

re: #267 austin_blue
Fine. Then quite driving, using electricity, etc...I will not lower my standard of living when China and India are burning coal like maniacs. I use renweable electricity..hydropower. My car gets 28mpg. I recycle, what more do you folks want? Windmills and solar panels ain't gonna run trains or semi trucks.

280 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:44:34pm

you put your left nut in
you put your left nut out
you put your left nut in
and you shake it all about

C'mon y'all!

281 Unakite  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:44:42pm

re: #264 elBarto

The scientific consensus is that it is friday night

With the proper scientific caveats about longitude, etc. (It will be Saturday morning here in about 15 minutes).

282 jaunte  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:44:44pm

re: #276 Naso Tang

As far the OP and creationists go; God is on their side, so what is there to discuss?.

I think that's the issue; they aren't sure of it.

283 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:44:47pm

re: #270 reine.de.tout
I hear ya.

284 elBarto  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:44:58pm

280 that could hurt

285 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:45:21pm

re: #263 MandyManners

Suck my left nut.

That's one more than Sunshine has...

286 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:45:35pm

re: #273 jaunte
Well crap. I was gonna take another pain pill and go on a rant!

287 elBarto  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:45:56pm

I got a great Idea keep god out of the schools and politics out of the church.

288 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:45:58pm

This is good news.

U.S. denied Iran official visa for U.N. meeting: envoy

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - Tehran's U.N. envoy on Friday accused the United States of denying Iran's first vice president and members of his delegation visas to attend a three-day U.N. conference on the global financial crisis.

"I am indeed delivering this speech on behalf of Dr. (Parviz) Davoudi, first vice president of the Islamic Republic of Iran, who along with members of the Iranian delegation was not able to participate in the conference," Iranian U.N. Ambassador Mohammad Khazaee told the U.N. General Assembly.

"Their entry visas were not issued by the host country," he added, referring to the United States.

289 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:46:04pm

Re: the regrettable passing of Michael Jackson

I wish I had money. I do have the proper entrepreneurial spirit.

Someone will buy his body and his Neverland house along with a few unmatched pairs of gloves and create Graceland West. Tour busses, souvenirs...The King made more dough dead at Graceland than he ever did alive.

290 jaunte  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:46:24pm

re: #286 pingjockey

Go for it; I bet he's still reading the thread.

291 itellu3times  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:46:25pm

This is a shame, Bowler has written an *excellent* book cleverly called "Evolution" that I have recommended on LGF several times before, showing how the idea developed over centuries - and then after Darwin as well.

292 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:46:48pm

re: #286 pingjockey

Well crap. I was gonna take another pain pill and go on a rant!

I'm up to four Vicodin, and a dash of Southern Comfort....you do what you have to

293 elBarto  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:46:56pm

re: #289 The Shadow Do

God bless America!

294 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:47:20pm

re: #292 albusteve
Jesus, be careful!

295 Silvergirl  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:48:45pm

Time to go watch the last Netflix DVD of Season 1 of Pushing Daisies.

BBL maybe.

Thanks for the entertainment. Even you, TexasDude. Don't choke on that left nut.

Eat hearty on the Texas Roast Troll, Lizards!

296 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:48:45pm

re: #294 pingjockey

Jesus, be careful!

Agreed. We don't need to see one of our own OD.

297 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:48:52pm

re: #293 elBarto

God bless America!

Amen

298 Unakite  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:48:59pm

re: #267 austin_blue

Tobacco. Tobacco. Tobacco. Did they do peer reviewed research? Yes. Did it keep getting shot down? Yes. Did they continue to deny? Yes. In the immortal words of Dr. Phil, "How's that working for ya?"

Are the AGW groups lying. Not on the science. It is clear and getting more robust every day. That's the way science works. It's not the way PR works, which is why the anti-AGW groups are PR firms simply poking holes in the research until the holes are plugged. Then they look for more holes rather than doing research. Same as the tobacco companies. It is cost effective for Exxon/Mobil et al. It maximized shareholder value for the short term.

Do you want to discuss the science, the politics, or just go on a rant. It's pretty hard to address all three at the same time.

299 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:49:27pm

re: #295 Silvergirl
Night!

300 MandyManners  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:49:27pm
301 Sharmuta  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:49:40pm

re: #287 elBarto

I got a great Idea keep god out of the schools and politics out of the church.

That's just crazy talk.

302 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:49:52pm

re: #294 pingjockey

Jesus, be careful!

I'm an expert at self medication

303 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:50:09pm

re: #292 albusteve

I'm up to four Vicodin, and a dash of Southern Comfort....you do what you have to

Be careful with them there narcotics, dearheart.

304 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:50:40pm

re: #302 albusteve

I'm an expert at self medication

I've met many former experts at NA meetings.

305 Unakite  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:50:43pm

re: #275 jaunte

(On her mantel).

Oh yeah, I forgot... :)

306 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:50:46pm

re: #296 Dark_Falcon
I've got Percocet, and I'm not even tempted to have a drink.
Had some muscle relaxers once along with a beer, could hardly move for 5 hours!

307 austin_blue  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:51:31pm

re: #247 CyanSnowHawk

And we all know that the funding source calls the shots with the research don't we? So, I wonder what the expected outcome of the federal research dollars is?

Cyan-

No. That's the point. Federal dollars for blue sky research demand a deliverable, such as a peer reviewed paper, published and defended. If the research is crap, there will be no further funding for that group. It's real science, not nitpicking. The researchers have the best motivation in the world- further funding for continued quality work. Frauds are quickly caught and run out of the community. It's a very efficient system.

308 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:51:35pm

re: #302 albusteve
OK, just be frakkin' careful please. Mom mode off!

309 itellu3times  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:52:11pm

re: #302 albusteve

I'm an expert at self medication

I'm sure, but y'know, what with the Jacko and all, ...

310 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:52:12pm

re: #303 Catttt

Be careful with them there narcotics, dearheart.

I'm in a fair amount of pain...I am familiar with all kinds of drugs...I aced pharm in nursing school...thanks but I'm good for now

311 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:52:54pm

Any KC lizards here tonight?

Local groups to host Brit who justifies terror

He’s toadied up to dictators from Iraq’s Saddam Hussein to Syria’s Bashar Assad to Iran’s Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. In March, he was banned from Canada as a terror-supporting national-security risk. The Anti-Defamation League calls his fundraising tour “Supporting Hamas Under the Guise of Humanitarianism,” and last week it once again asked Attorney General Eric Holder to investigate whether the tour breaks American laws.

But a coalition of local Muslim and pro-Arab groups is proud to bring British Member of Parliament George Galloway to Overland Park July 2 for a fundraiser.

“It’s meant to provide needed medical and relief supplies to break the siege of Gaza; it’s really not meant to fund Hamas,” said Matt Quinn, a spokesman for Citizens for Justice in the Middle East.

One of the other sponsors of Galloway’s visit is the local chapter of the Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation. MAS was spawned by the international Islamist organization the Muslim Brotherhood. CJME and MAS organized local protests against Israel’s military campaign against Hamas in Gaza earlier this year.

The July 2 event will be one of the last before Galloway’s Viva Palestina group attempts for the second time this year to deliver money and other forms of aid to the Gaza Strip, controlled since a June 2007 coup by the terrorist group Hamas, which is also a creation of the Muslim Brotherhood. At vivapalestina-us.org, the group says it intends to fly from New York to Cairo July 4 and enter Gaza on or around July 13.

312 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:53:06pm

re: #307 austin_blue
Umm...NO! They ran a scam up here in the Northwest for 4 years until they were caught. Counting wolverines, or the lack thereof.

313 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:53:07pm

re: #304 Catttt

I've met many former experts at NA meetings.

I keep tabs on my liver...that's my major concern

314 itellu3times  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:53:19pm

re: #307 austin_blue

Cyan-

No. That's the point. Federal dollars for blue sky research demand a deliverable, such as a peer reviewed paper, published and defended. If the research is crap, there will be no further funding for that group. It's real science, not nitpicking. The researchers have the best motivation in the world- further funding for continued quality work. Frauds are quickly caught and run out of the community. It's a very efficient system.

I don't know about the "quickly" part, but it's still the best system we've got.

315 Unakite  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:53:37pm

re: #278 Dark_Falcon

You don't have nuts, Mandy. And he couldn't suck them even if you did, since Charles banned his ass. I've just got home, but I've already got the charcoal. Texas Roast Troll will be served in 27 minutes. Please place drink and side dish orders now.

Bourbon. No side dish.

316 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:53:54pm

re: #311 NJDhockeyfan
In KC? What the Hell?

317 swamprat  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:54:03pm

re: #307 austin_blue

Cyan-

No. That's the point. Federal dollars for blue sky research demand a deliverable, such as a peer reviewed paper, published and defended. If the research is crap, there will be no further funding for that group. It's real science, not nitpicking. The researchers have the best motivation in the world- further funding for continued quality work. Frauds are quickly caught and run out of the community. It's a very efficient system.

wanna buy a bridge?

318 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:54:28pm

re: #300 MandyManners

And I think to myself, what a wonderful world...

Thanks Mandy. Thanks for a refreshing moment of plain ole' sanity.

319 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:54:37pm

re: #309 itellu3times

I'm sure, but y'know, what with the Jacko and all, ...

I'm not mainlining Demerol...yet

320 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:55:02pm

re: #315 Unakite

Bourbon. No side dish.

Fresh out of hard liquor. I can supply beer or soda.

321 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:55:11pm

re: #310 albusteve

I'm in a fair amount of pain...I am familiar with all kinds of drugs...I aced pharm in nursing school...thanks but I'm good for now

I think you are, because you can type well and are making sense. Forgive me - gotta say it - seen people take dirt naps with narcotics.

322 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:55:26pm

re: #319 albusteve
Well, I've got a pot connection for when they start the radiation shit!

323 itellu3times  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:55:53pm

re: #319 albusteve

I'm not mainlining Demerol...yet

What do you think of the MJ cocktail (see the headline on Drudge)?

324 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:56:01pm

re: #267 austin_blue

Tobacco. Tobacco. Tobacco.


Chevy. Chevy. Chevy.

Maybe we're talking about Fords.

If you've got evidence of fraud and malfeasance, call a press conference, the networks will eat it up.

The consensus is not looking so solid anymore.

More study needed, nothing is settled.

325 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:57:27pm

re: #323 itellu3times
What was it?
I remember seeing Elvis' autopsy report on 60 Minutes and he had a damn pharmacy in his system.

326 elBarto  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:58:04pm

I am not so sure global warming is all bad. I have not had to water my lawn in a month. Her in the desert that is unusual

327 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:58:08pm

re: #321 Catttt

I think you are, because you can type well and are making sense. Forgive me - gotta say it - seen people take dirt naps with narcotics.

so have I...vicoden works really well for me...it's intermittent so it's not a problem....I have seen many junkies go down

328 austin_blue  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:59:19pm

re: #279 pingjockey

Fine. Then quite driving, using electricity, etc...I will not lower my standard of living when China and India are burning coal like maniacs. I use renweable electricity..hydropower. My car gets 28mpg. I recycle, what more do you folks want? Windmills and solar panels ain't gonna run trains or semi trucks.

Well, okey dokey, then. Your great grandchildren will live in a world with almost no petroleum. Your greats x 4 will live in a world depleted of coal. That's what extractive technologies *do*. What then? Maybe we should save some of those hydrocarbons because it's easy to use their long chain components for plastics? China and India will laugh their asses off if we tell them to get off the carbon teat if we don't lead the way. Isn't that what we should be doing? Leading?

Especially when, given that carbon based fuels are intrinsically finite, we have no real choice in the long term? Ostrich or lion? What are we?

329 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:59:33pm

re: #313 albusteve

I keep tabs on my liver...that's my major concern

I can't drink at all - I overreact to drugs and alcohol. I remember fighting hydrocodone pills when I had my wisdom teeth out - wouldn't take one til the pain made me cry.

My ex was a recovering addict, so I became familiar with the whole drugs and alcohol (alcohol is a drug!) thing and recovery. I stick to things that don't make me black out and go out like a dead fish. Coffee is good. More coffee, please.

330 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:59:55pm

I'm gonna have to go look and see how old this movie is! Cincinati Kid, Ann Margret is SMOKIN'!

331 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:00:01pm

re: #322 pingjockey

Well, I've got a pot connection for when they start the radiation shit!

there is an abundance of quality pot here in ABQ...have not used it in a few years now, don;t seem to miss it much...my problem is not cancer

332 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:00:19pm

re: #289 The Shadow Do

Re: the regrettable passing of Michael Jackson

I wish I had money. I do have the proper entrepreneurial spirit.

Someone will buy his body and his Neverland house along with a few unmatched pairs of gloves and create Graceland West. Tour busses, souvenirs...The King made more dough dead at Graceland than he ever did alive.

Are you suggesting this was a good career move?
///

333 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:00:32pm

re: #323 itellu3times

What do you think of the MJ cocktail (see the headline on Drudge)?

not familiar with it besides the demerol thing

334 austin_blue  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:00:37pm

re: #298 Unakite

Do you want to discuss the science, the politics, or just go on a rant. It's pretty hard to address all three at the same time.

Pick one. I'm easy (but not cheap). I'd prefer the science, but it's all connected.

335 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:00:46pm

Is this the real deal or just another false hope?

After three years in captivity, Israeli hostage Gilad Shalit, may soon be transferred to Egypt as part of a prisoner swap, according to European sources. I pray that it's true and I pray that the swap is a one for one deal. it's not that I object to offering the hundreds of Hamas fighters that I am sure will be required to gain this one young man's release. It's that lasting peace will a lot closer when both sides of the conflict agree about the supreme value of even one of their own. But either way, it's time for this to happen.

336 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:01:21pm
Ostrich or lion? What are we?

Anyone who thinks carbon-credits/offset and kneecap and trade is a great idea is probably lion lyin'.

337 austin_blue  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:01:43pm

re: #317 swamprat

wanna buy a bridge?

Ummm...I don't understand.

338 MandyManners  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:01:45pm

Michael Jackson was a fucking pervert who died owing a lot of money.

339 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:02:26pm

re: #332 CyanSnowHawk

Are you suggesting this was a good career move?
///

Absolutely! Let's see what his next album, recorded pre-croak, brings in.

340 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:03:12pm

re: #307 austin_blue

Cyan-

No. That's the point. Federal dollars for blue sky research demand a deliverable, such as a peer reviewed paper, published and defended. If the research is crap, there will be no further funding for that group. It's real science, not nitpicking. The researchers have the best motivation in the world- further funding for continued quality work. Frauds are quickly caught and run out of the community. It's a very efficient system.

Bullshit. You got a problem with industry research, start providing proof. Keep in mind we are talking about climate research, the tobacco thing is old news and not relevant.

341 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:03:49pm

re: #329 Catttt

I can't drink at all - I overreact to drugs and alcohol. I remember fighting hydrocodone pills when I had my wisdom teeth out - wouldn't take one til the pain made me cry.

My ex was a recovering addict, so I became familiar with the whole drugs and alcohol (alcohol is a drug!) thing and recovery. I stick to things that don't make me black out and go out like a dead fish. Coffee is good. More coffee, please.

my dear ex wife is hyper sensitive to all meds, and she has been prescribed a boatload for various reasons....I'm a tank...luckily I have no undue side effects from anything I take....I don't like medications but I have no choice at the present time

342 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:04:08pm

re: #256 freetoken

Thousands of scientific publications on AGW have been published over the years, in the leading peer-review journals dealing with Earth Science, Physics, and general science.

You just don't like the answer.

/will any cap and trade scheme, assuming that's the answer, that doesn't include China and India, make any significant difference?

343 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:04:27pm

re: #337 austin_blue

re: #317 swamprat


Ummm...I don't understand.

Of course not, you fucking idiot. China, India and Russia will be laughing their asses off at us because it will leave more fossil-fuels for them to snap up.

Answer me honestly- are you stupid enough to honestly think that the ChiComs and Putin will 'follow our glorious example'?

344 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:04:27pm

re: #338 MandyManners

Michael Jackson was a fucking pervert who died owing a lot of money.

And he was the King of Pop, so some people remember him for that. He had a huge effect on music before he went, imho, looney tunes.

345 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:04:44pm

re: #338 MandyManners

Michael Jackson was a fucking pervert who died owing a lot of money.

/and a sorry ass drug addict to boot

346 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:04:49pm

re: #328 austin_blue
Mwahahahaha! We were running out 39 years ago and we were gonna freeze too. Damn straight I'm all for alternative energy. Except that if it is so great, how come you want my tax dollars to fund research? If it's that great, where is private enterprise? Also, some of the lefties have told me hydropower, from snow melt is now a nonrenewable energy source. So when the left starts talking sense and not hypocrisy I will listen. IE Teddy Kennedy and Walter Cronkite don't want windmills cause it spoils their view. Fuck them. Same with Madame Blinky flying on my dime back and forth to Cali.

347 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:05:16pm

re: #335 NJDhockeyfan

Is this the real deal or just another false hope?

I cannot believe he is alive...sadly I'm sure of it

348 itellu3times  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:05:52pm

re: #325 pingjockey

xanax, prilosec, vicodin, paxil, demerol, soma, diluadid, zoloft

no mention of adrenochrome or ether

349 Unakite  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:06:10pm

re: #307 austin_blue

Cyan-

No. That's the point. Federal taxpayer dollars for blue sky research demand a deliverable, such as a peer reviewed paper, published and defended. If the research is crap doesn't support the expected political outcome, there will be no further funding for that group. It's real science, not nitpicking. The researchers have the best motivation in the world- further funding for continued quality work. Frauds are quickly caught and run out of the community. It's a very efficient system.

FIFY. Follow the money trail, both ways. Are you trying to say that any research funded by private industry is automatically suspect, but that any research funded by the government is beyond reproach? Based on this comment, I'd bet that you don't think that government policies and political pressure had anything to do with the housing collapse and the current economic situation either.

350 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:06:17pm

re: #338 MandyManners

Michael Jackson was a fucking pervert who died owing a lot of money.

yes...no big loss as far as I'm concerned....the harsh truth

351 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:06:33pm

re: #348 itellu3times
That'd knock out an elephant!

352 austin_blue  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:06:38pm

re: #336 Fenway_Nation

Anyone who thinks carbon-credits/offset and kneecap and trade is a great idea is probably lion lyin'.

Not lying. Proposing. But we must lead the way. We have no moral standing in China and India if we don't. We are all in the same boat. A world of finite extractable resources (unless there be Alchemists among thee!). Everybody get their shit together pretty quick or there will be hell to pay for access to resources.

353 jcm  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:07:15pm

re: #312 pingjockey

Umm...NO! They ran a scam up here in the Northwest for 4 years until they were caught. Counting wolverines, or the lack thereof.

Lynx,

Rare lynx hairs found in forests exposed as hoax

May Creek by Issaquah, owners wanted to do some flood mitigation. Till a salmon was found in the creek. Problem is there's a dam with no fish ladder between the where he salmon was found and Lake Washington.

354 MandyManners  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:07:19pm

re: #344 Catttt

And he was the King of Pop, so some people remember him for that. He had a huge effect on music before he went, imho, looney tunes.

So, ignore the pedophelia.

355 Mich-again  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:07:50pm

re: #352 austin_blue

We have no moral standing in China and India if we don't.

Do you really think that way or did you miss a sarc tag?

356 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:08:22pm

re: #348 itellu3times

xanax, prilosec, vicodin, paxil, demerol, soma, diluadid, zoloft

no mention of adrenochrome or ether

the anti depressives are very dangerous...as much or more than the narcs

357 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:08:30pm

re: #352 austin_blue
We don't need moral standing in China. They're a fucking dictatorship! We can clean up anything we do. We can drill/mine safer and cleaner than anyone on the planet.

358 elBarto  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:08:55pm

mandy he was not convicted. I think it was more about greedy parents

359 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:09:01pm

re: #352 austin_blue

So we should leave those natural resources that are available under our own fucking soil (the Bakken Shale, Marcelus shale, Utica Shale, Fayetteville shale, etc) because you think the Chinese will follow our glorious example?

How's that moral standing working out int the Human Rights department...

360 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:09:06pm

re: #353 jcm
Thanks. Dad laughed about that one. Assholes.

361 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:09:10pm

re: #352 austin_blue


We have no moral standing in China and India if we don't.


Hoo boy. You got some growin' up to do there son.

362 itellu3times  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:09:23pm

re: #342 Killian Bundy

/will any cap and trade scheme, assuming that's the answer, that doesn't include China and India, make any significant difference?

difference in what, it's not clear that the pollution is making any difference.

but, y'know, I'm not sure I care. I'm in favor of most any generic system that discourages profligate energy use, and we might as well raise a few taxes doing it. Yes, it will chase yet a few more jobs overseas, but so far our energy costs are pretty low, for a developed country. frankly, the bad science ticks me off more than the actual bill, if it were described as I do here, I'd be able to support it.

363 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:09:30pm

re: #341 albusteve

my dear ex wife is hyper sensitive to all meds, and she has been prescribed a boatload for various reasons....I'm a tank...luckily I have no undue side effects from anything I take....I don't like medications but I have no choice at the present time

I know. I have sciatica in my right leg - started last December. For a month, I could barely walk, and the pain was 24/7 excruciating. I telecommute, so I'd hobble to the comp, then hobble to bed. I found that Aleve worked better than the Rx my doc gave me. It's better now, and I can walk just fine (stairs hurt, but I can walk stairs in three-inch heels again) but it still hurts - not all the time, thank goodness.

364 jaunte  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:09:39pm

China and India will use the energy they need for their economies, and won't be swayed by what we do.

365 Unakite  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:09:55pm

re: #320 Dark_Falcon

Fresh out of hard liquor. I can supply beer or soda.

Beeer.....(channeling Homer). :p

366 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:10:10pm

re: #354 MandyManners

re: #344 Catttt


So, ignore the pedophelia.


Works for the MSM....

367 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:11:17pm

re: #364 jaunte

Oh no! Haven't you heard? They're going to follow Ear Leaders glorious example and intentionally cripple their own manufacturing, transportation and energy sectors....

368 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:11:28pm
369 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:11:51pm

re: #362 itellu3times
I gonna disagree. We already are taxed enough. It is going to get worse, too. Health care, energy policy, etc...

370 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:12:07pm

re: #13 Dr. Shalit

Everyone -

AND, If Charles Darwin, in the 19th Century, was a racist - as many Englishmen and other Europeans were at that time - the question is - DOES THAT DISPROVE HIS THEORY? Comments?

-S-

Well, no, it wouldn't, and evolutionary theory has progressed to the point where Darwin's personal social beliefs are no longer relevent to it, haven't been for a long time.

However, given that Darwin appears to have in fact been staunchly ANTI-racist, it's an unwarranted insult to a great scientist.

BTW, did anyone see the article in Newsweek, shredding evolutionary psych? I thought it was rather interesting.

371 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:12:21pm

re: #354 MandyManners

So, ignore the pedophelia.

I'm not saying ignore anything. I just don't feel like speaking ill of the dead. Call me Emily Post. And he did have a music legacy, irrespective of all the rest of what he did.

372 jaunte  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:12:23pm

re: #367 Fenway_Nation

So far our 'unclenching' example to dictators hasn't worked very well as a test-bed.

373 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:12:52pm

re: #363 Catttt

I know. I have sciatica in my right leg - started last December. For a month, I could barely walk, and the pain was 24/7 excruciating. I telecommute, so I'd hobble to the comp, then hobble to bed. I found that Aleve worked better than the Rx my doc gave me. It's better now, and I can walk just fine (stairs hurt, but I can walk stairs in three-inch heels again) but it still hurts - not all the time, thank goodness.

have experienced that, from a blown lumbar disc....sciatica is so debilitating that it's hard for people to understand if they have never experienced it....extremely painful...you have my utmost sympathy and get that nerve under control!

374 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:12:53pm

re: #328 austin_blue

Well, okey dokey, then. Your great grandchildren will live in a world with almost no petroleum. Your greats x 4 will live in a world depleted of coal. That's what extractive technologies *do*. What then? Maybe we should save some of those hydrocarbons because it's easy to use their long chain components for plastics? China and India will laugh their asses off if we tell them to get off the carbon teat if we don't lead the way. Isn't that what we should be doing? Leading?

Especially when, given that carbon based fuels are intrinsically finite, we have no real choice in the long term? Ostrich or lion? What are we?

Ever hear about algal oil? Check out Sapphire Energy. They make crude oil from algae. Oil is now a renewable resource. The process is carbon neutral, it extracts CO2 from the air for the production of hydrocarbons. They are currently working to scale up production and it looks to eventually be cost competitive with deep sea drilling. There are many advantages to it, but the best thing is that it can provide an unlimited amount of oil that is compatible with our current infrastructure.

If you're still operating under the false impression that oil is finite, you're way behind the times.

375 jcm  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:12:59pm

re: #352 austin_blue

Not lying. Proposing. But we must lead the way. We have no moral standing in China and India if we don't. We are all in the same boat. A world of finite extractable resources (unless there be Alchemists among thee!). Everybody get their shit together pretty quick or there will be hell to pay for access to resources.

Moral standing with a country that executes people for a religion then sells their organs?

sheesh

376 Unakite  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:13:26pm

re: #328 austin_blue

Well, okey dokey, then. Your great grandchildren will live in a world with almost no petroleum. Your greats x 4 will live in a world depleted of coal. That's what extractive technologies *do*. What then? Maybe we should save some of those hydrocarbons because it's easy to use their long chain components for plastics? China and India will laugh their asses off if we tell them to get off the carbon teat if we don't lead the way. Isn't that what we should be doing? Leading?

Especially when, given that carbon based fuels are intrinsically finite, we have no real choice in the long term? Ostrich or lion? What are we?

WTF? You must be way smarter than me 'cause I have no idea what you are talking about. Oh, and fixed this one for you, too.

377 itellu3times  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:14:06pm

re: #363 Catttt

I know. I have sciatica in my right leg - started last December. For a month, I could barely walk, and the pain was 24/7 excruciating. I telecommute, so I'd hobble to the comp, then hobble to bed. I found that Aleve worked better than the Rx my doc gave me. It's better now, and I can walk just fine (stairs hurt, but I can walk stairs in three-inch heels again) but it still hurts - not all the time, thank goodness.

Pain management is a fine art.

I've had some temporary back problems that were about as bad as it can get, and I just made do with a couple of aspirin, but that's me. Not to mention several attacks of gout over the years, that's one helluva pain, even if it's focused on one or two toes. I watched Mom get good and doped up for some very real back problems, doctor mishandled it quite badly - unless his aim was actually to kill her - but we got her off them and she's been fine since. If MJ really needed pain killers, I'm glad he had them, but it's also very easy to ... make mistakes, along those lines. And so he did.

378 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:14:18pm

re: #373 albusteve

have experienced that, from a blown lumbar disc....sciatica is so debilitating that it's hard for people to understand if they have never experienced it....extremely painful...you have my utmost sympathy and get that nerve under control!

I'm going to see my doc in a couple of weeks and talk about it. My doc retired, and my new doc's first name is Elvira. How cool is that? : D (she's Russian).

379 justdanny  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:14:18pm

Heres you some "religious" wackos

Scientology Crazy Followers

380 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:14:29pm

Oh boy, Hannity has gone all Michael Jackson.

/not sure if that's good or bad

381 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:15:16pm

re: #379 justdanny
I saw them running a commercial on the tube!
Them and the Creation Museum! There's a pair for ya!

382 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:15:24pm

re: #328 austin_blue

Well, okey dokey, then. Your great grandchildren will live in a world with almost no petroleum. Your greats x 4 will live in a world depleted of coal.

Sorry.... I've been hearing that song n' dance since the 70s. I don't get scared by it any more.

By the way; Paul Ehrlich lost that bet.

383 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:15:35pm

re: #374 CyanSnowHawk

I've posted about those guys a couple of times with zero reaction...I thinks it's very exciting...it needs more attention...and as far as oil goes I'm not at all sure we have tapped the most of it yet

384 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:16:21pm

re: #380 Killian Bundy

Oh boy, Hannity has gone all Michael Jackson.

/not sure if that's good or bad

Gretta will have his balls. Dead is her beat, and Shawn had best respect it.

385 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:16:30pm

re: #377 itellu3times

Pain management is a fine art.

I've had some temporary back problems that were about as bad as it can get, and I just made do with a couple of aspirin, but that's me. Not to mention several attacks of gout over the years, that's one helluva pain, even if it's focused on one or two toes. I watched Mom get good and doped up for some very real back problems, doctor mishandled it quite badly - unless his aim was actually to kill her - but we got her off them and she's been fine since. If MJ really needed pain killers, I'm glad he had them, but it's also very easy to ... make mistakes, along those lines. And so he did.

My mom had a disc thing in her back and took pills for a while. She stopped when she realized they were habit-forming. She was very stoic when she was in pain, and she did the exercises (my daddy made her! heh) and got through it with a smile. She was a hell of a lady.

386 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:16:42pm

re: #136 Shiplord Kirel

Some years ago, the annual psychic predictions for the new year at Weekly World News included one that a "family of Bigfoot monsters would be discovered living on welfare in Terre Haute Indiana."
I immediately asked the obvious question, "Why Terre Haute?" but never got a satisfactory answer.

Perhaps they don't have a DNA requirement?

387 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:17:05pm

re: #383 albusteve
My neighbor is a geologist, works on the North Slope. The new drilling tech is amazing. Stay on shore and go out diagonally for miles then down.

388 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:17:31pm

re: #378 Catttt

I'm going to see my doc in a couple of weeks and talk about it. My doc retired, and my new doc's first name is Elvira. How cool is that? : D (she's Russian).

the nerve is inflammed and swollen....you knew that...time has alot to do with it...consider steroids too

389 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:17:57pm

re: #383 albusteve

I think I saw something like that in National Geographic not too long ago. Seemed too good to be true- and I was partially correct when they explained that getting the algae to produce the crude was an intricate and convoluted process....

390 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:19:57pm

re: #178 HelloDare

Jeez, don't you know anything. They were put their by God to test our faith. /

So you say. But that's because the Devil is using you. My pastor said so. And he told us he's being used by God. Jeez, get it straight!

/

391 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:20:04pm

re: #387 pingjockey

My neighbor is a geologist, works on the North Slope. The new drilling tech is amazing. Stay on shore and go out diagonally for miles then down.

I have a gut feeling there is more oil down there than we can even dream of...it's a vast planet and we are neophytes regardless of out scientific prowess...just my unfounded opinion

392 Unakite  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:20:23pm

re: #352 austin_blue

Not lying. Proposing. But we must lead the way. We have no moral standing in China and India if we don't. We are all in the same boat. A world of finite extractable resources (unless there be Alchemists among thee!). Everybody get their shit together pretty quick or there will be hell to pay for access to resources.

Boy, this is getting easy.

393 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:20:40pm

re: #384 The Shadow Do

Gretta will have his balls. Dead is her beat, and Shawn had best respect it.

Hannity will go back to politics tomorrow. Greta will do MJ for weeks.

394 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:20:44pm

re: #378 Catttt

I'm going to see my doc in a couple of weeks and talk about it. My doc retired, and my new doc's first name is Elvira. How cool is that? : D (she's Russian).

My daughter took second place in an Elvira look alike national contest. At the competition she stayed at a Holiday Inn.

Be afraid, be very afraid...

395 itellu3times  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:21:17pm

re: #385 Catttt

My mom had a disc thing in her back and took pills for a while. She stopped when she realized they were habit-forming. She was very stoic when she was in pain, and she did the exercises (my daddy made her! heh) and got through it with a smile. She was a hell of a lady.

Mom had an operation that reduced 98% of the pain, she was very fortunate. But the doctor wouldn't reduce her pain meds. I got her the hell out of there, she was off them with no problems in a couple of weeks, quite remarkable, really.

I nearly assaulted the doctor while Mom was still in hospital and might have done so afterwards (either with a baseball bat or an attorney, or possibly both), had it been necessary. Unbelievable shmuck, and he had a relatively good reputation and standing.

396 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:21:20pm

re: #245 Shiplord Kirel

The socons are going to ride the great tsunami of traditional marriage and ID right into the White House in 2012. Then they're gonna party like it's 1699.

God forbid. Not that there aren't days I wouldn't mind living in an Amish paradise. But culture wars give me a headache.

397 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:21:40pm

re: #389 Fenway_Nation
The thing is, it is being worked on. Until a lightweight power plant that doesn't burn gasoline and diesel and produces the same horsepower to weight as an internal combustion engine is developed we have to have oil. Or have a plague that wipes out 5/6ths of the worlds population. Then the neoluddites and greens will be happy. The billion or so left can be vegans and treat mother gaia with the respect she deserves.

398 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:21:41pm

re: #384 The Shadow Do

Gretta will have his balls. Dead is her beat, and Shawn had best respect it.

I think it's more of a matter of Fox News management ordering every time slot to go Michael Jackson wall to wall, 24/7 with replays.

/come naturally for Greta, degrades whatever moral authority Hannity pretends to have left

399 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:21:49pm

re: #389 Fenway_Nation

I think I saw something like that in National Geographic not too long ago. Seemed too good to be true- and I was partially correct when they explained that getting the algae to produce the crude was an intricate and convoluted process....

it is almost too good to be true...google it...growing oil with sunlight, not a whole lot to it

400 Bobblehead  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:21:55pm

How soon until we have Michael Jackson sightings?

401 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:22:32pm

re: #307 austin_blue

Different scientists come up with different conclusions because they change the basic assumptions. The basic assumptions allow for what I call guessing and you may call educated guessing or whatever. The conclusions are not predictions. There is no way to predict the future. Everyone therefore does not have to agree with you because a current study or studies concludes a particular thing or things.

402 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:22:48pm

re: #232 Racer X

OK. 3 guesses as to why they were pulled over?

I don't see anythong to be concerned about. Do you?

403 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:22:59pm

Recovered audio from Hillary's cellphone reveals the gritted teeth behind her stiff upper lip.

Heh.

404 jaunte  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:23:06pm

re: #379 justdanny

Heres you some "religious" wackos

Scientology Crazy Followers


[Video]

That whole 'what have you got to hide' and 'what are your crimes' phrases the scientology followers employ show the underpinnings of their scam: interrogation and blackmail.

405 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:23:29pm

re: #400 Bobblehead

Shit....all the sightings will probably take place at kindergartens or playgrounds....

406 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:23:34pm

re: #400 Bobblehead
I think this was too public for any of the Elvis nonsense to show up. Then again....

407 Bobblehead  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:23:58pm

re: #406 pingjockey

I think this was too public for any of the Elvis nonsense to show up. Then again....

He'll be seen with Elvis

408 sngnsgt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:23:59pm

re: #232 Racer X

OK. 3 guesses as to why they were pulled over?

People on crack should not ride motorcycles!

409 Catttt  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:24:03pm

re: #388 albusteve

the nerve is inflammed and swollen....you knew that...time has alot to do with it...consider steroids too

I will ask her about that - thanks.

I can stand a lot of pain and hate drugs, so I have just tried to get through the damn pain, and it is much better but still very much there.

410 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:24:08pm

re: #383 albusteve

I've posted about those guys a couple of times with zero reaction...I thinks it's very exciting...it needs more attention...and as far as oil goes I'm not at all sure we have tapped the most of it yet

I was worried about peak oil until I found them. Turns out that the idea of algal oil has been around a while. It was under consideration and researched in the 70s.

411 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:24:23pm

Movin' on up ----->

412 austin_blue  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:24:55pm

re: #340 CyanSnowHawk

Bullshit. You got a problem with industry research, start providing proof. Keep in mind we are talking about climate research, the tobacco thing is old news and not relevant.

I would love to provide proof against the truthiness of industry research into AGW, but the simple fact of the matter is (wait for it!)..........there hasn't been any. None. Squat. Zip. Zilch. Nada. It's not like they can't afford it. Lord knows they could buy the best scientists in the world to work for them for the rest of their natural lives. This whole "I am scared to do the research because it would affect my future" is strawman bullshit. The problem is simple and the extractive industries have learned from tobacco (the earlier point, BTW).

If you are going to pay for research, understand that it will be peer reviewed and if its bullshit, it will be stuffed up your ass. The tobacco companies didn't twig to this. They spent a lot of money on studies and got their asses handed to them. They found out the hard way and they spent a lot of money and looked like fools.

So, if you can't beat 'em with peer reviewed research, hire a bunch of folks who are paid to poke holes in other peoples research! But not in the peer reviewed press (no one reads that shit) but in the popular press. Insist that you should be listened to so as to provide "balance". Insist that the media "present the other side of the story" (without peer reviewed research). Insist that they "teach the controversy!" Sound familiar?

No. Exxon et al decided not to use the tobacco model to defend against AGW research, which threatened its product. They used the Creationist's model. Smart move. It seems to have worked very well for otherwise credulous people here.

How's that working for ya?

Is this sounding at all familiar?

413 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:24:59pm

re: #400 Bobblehead

How soon until we have Michael Jackson sightings?

He was at the 7-11 getting a latte in Ennis Texas just this morning. I saw him, nice guy.

414 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:25:08pm

re: #407 Bobblehead
Heh!

415 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:26:01pm

re: #398 Killian Bundy

I think it's more of a matter of Fox News management ordering every time slot to go Michael Jackson wall to wall, 24/7 with replays.

/come naturally for Greta, degrades whatever moral authority Hannity pretends to have left

Hannity is dirt...MJ did some cool things but is hardly what the media makes him out to be...without what's his name he would have tanked decades ago...a freak that could not control the simplest aspects of life let alone stardom and big money....his failures are more profound than his successes imo

416 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:26:39pm

re: #405 Fenway_Nation

Shit....all the sightings will probably take place at kindergartens or playgrounds....

Haha!....too funny

417 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:28:23pm

re: #407 Bobblehead

He'll be seen with Elvis

You know, it's been a while since I watched Bubba-Ho-Tep.

418 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:28:23pm

re: #409 Catttt

I will ask her about that - thanks.

I can stand a lot of pain and hate drugs, so I have just tried to get through the damn pain, and it is much better but still very much there.

it's not the drugs themselves...it's your liver and kidneys...and the side effects can make them intolerable of course...if you are in pain bomb it with whatever works

419 albusteve  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:29:45pm

re: #410 CyanSnowHawk

I was worried about peak oil until I found them. Turns out that the idea of algal oil has been around a while. It was under consideration and researched in the 70s.

algea...think about it....savior of modern man!

420 Sharmuta  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:29:57pm

re: #364 jaunte

China and India will use the energy they need for their economies, and won't be swayed by what we do.

They won't be swayed, but they might be laughing.

421 razorbacker  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:30:51pm

re: #232 Racer X

OK. 3 guesses as to why they were pulled over?

That's a brave lady, riding that motorcycle without a helmet.

422 jaunte  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:32:27pm

re: #420 Sharmuta

They'll get pissed when we stop being able to afford their products.

423 austin_blue  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:33:51pm

re: #343 Fenway_Nation

Of course not, you fucking idiot. China, India and Russia will be laughing their asses off at us because it will leave more fossil-fuels for them to snap up.

Answer me honestly- are you stupid enough to honestly think that the ChiComs and Putin will 'follow our glorious example'?

And then what? These are finite resources. Finite. Not immortal. Subject to running out. At some point no longer available. Will no longer support your industrial base.

Which will require a complete overhaul of our industrial base. Now, what we would be smarter, Fenway? Starting that transition now, or waiting until those energy sources become hugely more expensive as they become progressively rarer? What would be in our best interest in the long run?

424 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:35:12pm

re: #423 austin_blue
You don't think things are being worked on now? You really think the oil companies aren't investing in research?

425 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:37:52pm

re: #423 austin_blue

And then what? These are finite resources. Finite. Not immortal. Subject to running out. At some point no longer available. Will no longer support your industrial base.

Which will require a complete overhaul of our industrial base. Now, what we would be smarter, Fenway? Starting that transition now, or waiting until those energy sources become hugely more expensive as they become progressively rarer? What would be in our best interest in the long run?

Then let's do it slowly. Cap and Trade is a big tax and a bad idea. I'm not opposed to some phased-in mandates, but this bill should be killed like the turkey it is.

426 Mich-again  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:38:21pm

If being a screwball diminishes a person's accomplishments, then they should remove Ty Cobb from baseball's Hall of Fame. He was a racist jerk and not a person who deserves to be honored in any way. And I'm sure we could go through all sorts of museums and halls of fame and find despicable people being honored for what they accomplished.

As for MJ, his talent was unmatched and his contributions to pop music and pop culture make him one of the brightest stars ever in the music industry. I try to separate his bizarre off the stage behavior from what he accomplished as a performer.

427 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:40:17pm

re: #423 austin_blue
BTW..define finite. 10 years, 50 years, 200 years? I bet there is oil and coal for more than 200 years. Now how far will have technology got us in 100 years? In less than 70 years we went from the Wright Brothers to the moon.

428 pingjockey  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:44:10pm

going up

429 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:49:31pm

re: #423 austin_blue

You'll have to forgive the view from my narrow, myopic [and presently unemployed eyes]. Earlier this week, I put in an application for a railway who's major commodities include anthricite coal and 'frac sand' for oil and natural gas exploration.

Great company- they mailed me an application when I called and explained I was having problems with their online application form. They offer profit-sharing and other bonuses to their employees, and although the work hours in the industry are erratic at best, they attempt to keep a 9-5 schedule for the crews and maintainence personnel as best they can.

But the second I heard the House passed cap & trade, I asked myself 'Why did I even bother sending in an application if two major revenue sources for these guys just got killed by the House?'

All this touchey-feelgood 'lead by example' bullshit doesn't mean a fucking thing when there will be tens of thousands of more experienced and qualified people joining me in the ranks of the unemployed.

430 Mich-again  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:51:47pm

re: #427 pingjockey

BTW..define finite. 10 years, 50 years, 200 years? I bet there is oil and coal for more than 200 years. Now how far will have technology got us in 100 years? In less than 70 years we went from the Wright Brothers to the moon.

There is enough known reserves of natural gas alone in the US for a couple hundred years.

And on that note there is no reason to say that methane is a fossil fuel. Saturn has a moon named Titan that has an atmosphere made entirely of methane. There must be other ways that methane forms besides the decay of organic matter.

431 austin_blue  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:52:07pm

re: #424 pingjockey

You don't think things are being worked on now? You really think the oil companies aren't investing in research?

Some are. Shell and BP are throwing token bucks at alt.energy (maybe more than token, I haven't seen a lot of numbers).

But here's a vision. Between Miami and Grand Bahama, there flows a river of warm water at around 2 MPH. It doesn't depend on the sun. It doesn't depend on the wind. It contains the potential of terawatts of energy. We harness hydro power for a fair amount of energy in the western US. Why isn't Exxon putting dollars into harvesting that energy source? The simple answer is that they are waiting for government dollars to do the basic research. It is ever thus. Energy companies are very conservative. They want to maximize shareholder value rather than taking risk on raw research, especially when the US government has provide the funds for that research in the past.

432 Mich-again  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:53:05pm

re: #431 austin_blue

Energy companies are very conservative. They want to maximize shareholder value

Duh.

433 austin_blue  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:54:40pm

re: #425 Dark_Falcon

Then let's do it slowly. Cap and Trade is a big tax and a bad idea. I'm not opposed to some phased-in mandates, but this bill should be killed like the turkey it is.

This bill phases in over several years. It sets out a playing field that allows everyone to shift over time. Waiting will not feed the bulldog. Inaction over the past decade has put us farther behind the 8 ball. Time to act.

434 jaunte  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:54:57pm

Employees of energy companies are rewarded when they help the company become more profitable. Government usually works in the other direction.

435 austin_blue  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:59:01pm

re: #432 Mich-again

Duh.

Yes! So don't tell me they are happy about changing the status quo. Ever since the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts, industry has been squealing about how it would kill the economy, jobs, and profits. Hasn't happened. This is just the latest iteration of industry funded panic. Everyone should take a deep breath and step back.

436 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 9:59:26pm

re: #431 austin_blue

But here's a vision. Between Miami and Grand Bahama, there flows a river of warm water at around 2 MPH. It doesn't depend on the sun. It doesn't depend on the wind. It contains the potential of terawatts of energy. We harness hydro power for a fair amount of energy in the western US. Why isn't Exxon putting dollars into harvesting that energy source?

Assuming that the factual basis for what you're saying is true; you realize, of course, that "cap and trade" does absolutely nothing to directly address the problem you're referring to?

Want more government research? Great. Lobby for that. But not for a punitive tax on the energy sources that we know work now.

I'll repeat this quote again: It's not like government caused the personal computer to be invented by imposing punitive taxes on typewriters.

437 Mich-again  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:00:36pm

Safety note..

If you install solar panels for creating electricity on your residence, be aware that if the solar panels can not discharge the electricity that they are generating they can overheat and burst into flames. All it takes is a broken circuit in the wiring.

Its hush hush, but there have been more and more fires attributed to solar panels than the green energy people want anyone to know about. If you want the real story, ask your home insurance agent what the extra rider will be for your home policy if you install an array of solar panels on the roof. The extra insurance coverage will outweigh the savings from the "free" electricity, let alone the original investment.

438 ryannon  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:00:43pm

re: #327 albusteve

so have I...vicoden works really well for me...it's intermittent so it's not a problem....I have seen many junkies go down


I watched the needle take another man....

439 Mich-again  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:04:11pm

re: #435 austin_blue

Ever since the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts, industry has been squealing about how it would kill the economy, jobs, and profits. Hasn't happened.

Really? Not that I am blaming the Clean Air and Water Act was the culprit for the demise of American Industry mind you, I'm just wondering where you are peering into American Industry that is leading you to determine that jobs and profits have not suffered since then. Is there some sliver of the economy that is thriving these days? It must be just that. A sliver.

440 freetoken  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:04:16pm

re: #430 Mich-again

There is enough known reserves of natural gas alone in the US for a couple hundred years.

"known reserves"?

Usually, in the NG analyses that I've come across, the terminology preferred is "discovered" and "undiscovered." I don't remember ever seeing an analysis that said the US has 200 years of discovered NG.

Methane hydrates would not be considered a reserve unless you can figure out how to practically make use of them.

Also, NG produced so far comes from known geological strata associated with organic material laid down in earlier times (millions of years ago.)

Non-living sources of methane are common in the universe. However, note that methane combines readily with oxygen and thus is found in anoxic conditions.

441 fruitylips  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:05:55pm

FTA; "He claims that the film's narrative implies that Darwin's theory led him towards racism, whereas recent historical work by James Moore and Adrian Desmond shows that Darwin's scientific work was partly motivated by the naturalist's passionate opposition to racism."

I'm hardly an expert on Darwin, but this doesn't seem any better than claiming he was a racist in the first place. Much of the complaints about AGW (on both sides) stem from the idea that the researchers had a preconceived idea of what they wanted to find and thus, shockingly, found it. Seems like a big slight against Darwin to say that he was passionately opposed to racism and set out to do his research to support that.

442 jaunte  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:11:28pm

Potential U.S. natural gas reserves rise 39 percent


U.S. natural gas reserves are likely 39 percent higher than estimated just two years ago as new technology is revealing deeper potential resources of energy.

The U.S. has an estimated 1,836 trillion cubic feet of potential natural gas, the most on record, according to a report today by the Potential Gas Committee, a group of industry, government and academic volunteers. The estimate is up from 1,321 trillion cubic feet two years ago. The amount of proven and potential gas would meet U.S. demand for almost 100 years.

As we phase out coal, natural gas will be used more frequently for power generation, until we can get more nuclear plants built.

443 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:12:16pm

re: #441 fruitylips

Seems like a big slight against Darwin to say that he was passionately opposed to racism and set out to do his research to support that.

It does sound contrary at first, doesn't it? The difference, I think, is that once a project begins, the scientific method takes on a life of its own. If the science is done well and the evidence respected, the outcome has nothing to do with the scientist's motivation for starting on that journey in the first place.

Which is why there are so many examples of researchers ending up with a result that's very different, or even contradictory, to what they set out to prove. Darwin just happened to be lucky, in that regard.

444 ryannon  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:13:03pm

re: #371 Catttt

I'm not saying ignore anything. I just don't feel like speaking ill of the dead. Call me Emily Post. And he did have a music legacy, irrespective of all the rest of what he did.


Or didn't do.

Nothing was ever substantiated, other than the greed of the families involved.

445 fruitylips  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:15:29pm

re: #443 ShanghaiEd

Which is why there are so many examples of researchers ending up with a result that's very different, or even contradictory, to what they set out to prove. Darwin just happened to be lucky, in that regard.

Agreed. From the POV of the film, tho, it seems like it might be a better angle to attack it. Darwin went in with a preconceived idea of what he wanted to find and made up a buncha crap to support what he wanted to find. Not sure how that'd sell, but it wouldn't take making up things like him being a racist, so seems like a more logical place to start...although look who we're talking about. Logic perhaps isn't their strong suit.

446 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:21:32pm

re: #445 fruitylips

Agreed. From the POV of the film, tho, it seems like it might be a better angle to attack it. Darwin went in with a preconceived idea of what he wanted to find and made up a buncha crap to support what he wanted to find. Not sure how that'd sell, but it wouldn't take making up things like him being a racist, so seems like a more logical place to start...although look who we're talking about. Logic perhaps isn't their strong suit.

Ah. Very good point. For an audience not familiar with the fine points of the scientific method, that could definitely be used as a distraction. And probably will be.

447 fruitylips  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:24:04pm

re: #446 ShanghaiEd

Ah. Very good point. For an audience not familiar with the fine points of the scientific method, that could definitely be used as a distraction. And probably will be.

I'll give them a call tomorrow and offer to help with the next movie. Wonder how much it pays... :-)

448 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:26:24pm

re: #447 fruitylips

I'll give them a call tomorrow and offer to help with the next movie. Wonder how much it pays... :-)

Well, your real reward would be up above. Or down below, depending on which faction you ask.

449 austin_blue  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:40:16pm

re: #382 Occasional Reader

Sorry.... I've been hearing that song n' dance since the 70s. I don't get scared by it any more.

By the way; Paul Ehrlich lost that bet.

Sorry, OR, I have been up on the book thread. I don't want you to be scared of the concept of finite resources, I just want you to accept the concept of it. Which you?

450 Zimriel  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:44:39pm

re: #352 austin_blue

Proposing. But we must lead the way. We have no moral standing in China and India if we don't.

You lost your right to be taken seriously, with that statement.

451 austin_blue  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:46:34pm

re: #436 Occasional Reader

Assuming that the factual basis for what you're saying is true; you realize, of course, that "cap and trade" does absolutely nothing to directly address the problem you're referring to?

Want more government research? Great. Lobby for that. But not for a punitive tax on the energy sources that we know work now.

I'll repeat this quote again: It's not like government caused the personal computer to be invented by imposing punitive taxes on typewriters.

Good point. But would the PC have been invented as quickly without government funding for NASA? (That's not a non causa pro causa argument, is it? That would suck.)

452 austin_blue  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:51:14pm

re: #437 Mich-again

Safety note..

If you install solar panels for creating electricity on your residence, be aware that if the solar panels can not discharge the electricity that they are generating they can overheat and burst into flames. All it takes is a broken circuit in the wiring.

Its hush hush, but there have been more and more fires attributed to solar panels than the green energy people want anyone to know about. If you want the real story, ask your home insurance agent what the extra rider will be for your home policy if you install an array of solar panels on the roof. The extra insurance coverage will outweigh the savings from the "free" electricity, let alone the original investment.

Oh, please, give us a link. The PV panels are hot linked directly into your electricity meter through a transformer rectifier. The juice doesn't even enter the house except through your normal electricity delivery system (the Meter).

453 austin_blue  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:56:30pm

re: #450 Zimriel

You lost your right to be taken seriously, with that statement.

Why?

Let's say we don't do anything to limit our own emissions. Let's say we demand that developing economies, which haven't had a 100 year free ride before we realized there was a problem, shut down CO2 output before we do.

Why don't you understand that makes us hypocrites?

454 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 10:57:33pm

re: #451 austin_blue

Austin, before I turn in for the evening, my hat is off to you for your steady-handed contributions to several threads tonight despite catching a lot of flak. One of the best points you've made, I think, is the parallels between the tactics of tobacco companies a generation ago (smoking/cancer) and the energy companies today (AGW).

You've given me much food for thought, and I thank you.

455 austin_blue  Fri, Jun 26, 2009 11:09:47pm

re: #454 ShanghaiEd

Austin, before I turn in for the evening, my hat is off to you for your steady-handed contributions to several threads tonight despite catching a lot of flak. One of the best points you've made, I think, is the parallels between the tactics of tobacco companies a generation ago (smoking/cancer) and the energy companies today (AGW).

You've given me much food for thought, and I thank you.

{blushes}

Thankee, my man. From the convection oven of the Bouldin Creek Neighborhood in South Austin, Texas (keepin' it weird at 106 today), where the Little Blue Pimple of Texas voted 93% for BHO, have a wonderful evening wherever you are in this best of all possible worlds.

456 SixDegrees  Sat, Jun 27, 2009 4:36:38am

I'm not certain of the law involved, and even less certain when it comes to British law, but it seems to me that because the production company lied about itself and misrepresented the nature of the film, even going so far as to set up a front company to hide their true intentions, that any agreement made with those who appear in the film would be rendered null and void. Contracts are grounded in the understanding that there is transparency on both sides. In this case, there was not only no transparency, there was outright, deliberate opacity on the part of the film makers.

If Professor Bowler or any others who were interviewed feel that they no longer wish to appear after learning of the film's true nature, it shouldn't take more than a terse letter from an attorney rescinding their permission, opening the door to enormous lawsuits if the producers choose to ignore the withdrawal.

Charles - no amount of Googling will reveal what's going on if the deceivers are actively trying to hide their tracks, which seems to be at least partially true in this case with the establishment of a front company to mask the true producer. The best way to nip this problem in the bud is the threat of legal exposure with the potential to drain the offender's bank accounts until they resemble a desert.

457 SixDegrees  Sat, Jun 27, 2009 4:42:13am

re: #445 fruitylips

Agreed. From the POV of the film, tho, it seems like it might be a better angle to attack it. Darwin went in with a preconceived idea of what he wanted to find and made up a buncha crap to support what he wanted to find. Not sure how that'd sell, but it wouldn't take making up things like him being a racist, so seems like a more logical place to start...although look who we're talking about. Logic perhaps isn't their strong suit.

I'd suggest that you try reading Darwin before spouting nonsense like this. Start with The Voyage of the Beagle - it's an easy read, originally intended for a popular audience, that details his travels and thoughts along the way. Move on the The Origin of Species, which puts forth Darwin's theory of evolution - a theory which was already widely accepted at the time, and was only looking for a reasonable mechanism, which Darwin amply provided. It's a harder slog, but at least when you're finished you wouldn't be able to truthfully regurgitate this bilge, although you might continue to do so knowing it was a lie.

458 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jun 27, 2009 8:05:47am

Deceit and religious fundamentalism go well together.

459 JohnH  Sat, Jun 27, 2009 9:04:34am

re: #456 SixDegrees

You have no idea what you are talking about. There is no such "law."

460 JohnH  Sat, Jun 27, 2009 9:08:28am

re: #453 austin_blue

Why?

Let's say we don't do anything to limit our own emissions. Let's say we demand that developing economies, which haven't had a 100 year free ride before we realized there was a problem, shut down CO2 output before we do.

Why don't you understand that makes us hypocrites?


Haven't you been paying attention? We've done plenty to limit emissions in this country over the past seven decades, more than anyone else in the world.

461 fruitylips  Sat, Jun 27, 2009 12:47:01pm

re: #457 SixDegrees

I'd suggest you actually read what *I* wrote before spouting this nonsense...

462 RexMundi  Sat, Jun 27, 2009 7:35:36pm

re: #30 ArchangelMichael

FTFY

Lately I've been referring to it as "The Shitstory Channel" because that's what a lot of their programming has amounted to in the past few years.

463 RexMundi  Sat, Jun 27, 2009 7:51:01pm

re: #35 Idle Drifter

The History Channel drives me nuts when they host crap that's better left to the Sci-Fi Channel. UFOs, Cryptozoology, and company do not belong on the same channel with real historical events and human advancement.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who is baffled at The History Channel. It's kind of difficult to say they have any credibility when they occasionally work to debunk Truthers but then go all gung-ho for crap like Paranormal State and Doomsday 2012. What a complete waste of time it is to watch that pathetic channel now.

If only I could get the BBC here. They know how to put up fantastic programming in every way, and without those annoying-as-hell popups that American TV constantly throws up after every commercial break to let you know what you're watching right freaking now and then what you can watch afterward.

Stop me. Help. I'm getting too worked up over something that shouldn't be such a big deal. :S

464 Yashmak  Mon, Jun 29, 2009 7:18:34am
zealous creationists will knowingly lie to promote their cause, because they’re lying for Jesus. They have a “get out of jail free” card from on high.

I seem to recall something in the Bible about not bearing false witness.

465 Yashmak  Mon, Jun 29, 2009 7:20:19am

re: #460 JohnH

Haven't you been paying attention? We've done plenty to limit emissions in this country over the past seven decades, more than anyone else in the world.

Certainly true, although we still have higher emissions per capita than any other nation, if I recall correctly.

466 kansas  Mon, Jun 29, 2009 6:49:08pm

As the 21st century began, human evolution was at a turning point. Natural selection, the process by which the strongest, the smartest, the fastest, reproduced in greater numbers than the rest, a process which had once favored the noblest traits of man, now began to favor different traits. Most science fiction of the day predicted a future that was more civilized and more intelligent. But as time went on, things seemed to be heading in the opposite direction. A dumbing down. How did this happen? Evolution does not necessarily reward intelligence. With no natural predators to thin the herd, it began to simply reward those who reproduced the most, and left the intelligent to become an endangered species.

467 amrafel  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:16:19am

The following is ID leader William Dembski saying "so what?" to the tricking:

John Lynch whines that “noted historians”* weren’t properly informed that a documentary for which they were interviewed (The Voyage That Shook the World) would take an anti-Darwinist line. Lynch is outraged: the documentary makers are guilty of “lies” and “deception.” Would a charge of fraud hold up in court? I suspect the documentary makers simply withheld information. Is that wrong? The BBC, for instance, didn’t inform me that a documentary they were making about ID was to be called “A War on Science,” and that I would be portrayed as one of the “bad people” trying to “destroy science.” I was, to be sure, displeased with this outcome, but I recognize that this is the way the game is played. The other side has been dishing it out for a long time, but has a hard time of it when the tables are turned.
*Would Lynch have been okay with the documentary if the historians in question had instead merely been “mediocre historians” or “historians whose reliability regarding Darwinism is questionable”?
(the asterisk/footnote was in the original)


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