Obama Officials Say Talks with Iran Still Going Ahead

World • Views: 3,358

Yesterday I asked if Barack Obama would still carry on with his naïve plans for diplomatic engagement with Iran, even as the blood of Iranian demonstrators was still warm on the streets of Tehran.

Today we have the answer: Obama officials say talks with Iran still possible.

Both Rice and David Axelrod, Obama’s top adviser, said Ahmadinejad doesn’t appear to have the final say over Iran’s foreign policy. Axelrod, dismissing Ahmadinejad’s harsh language against the U.S. and Obama as “bloviations,” said being open to talks with Iran is not an effort to reward the country.

“We are looking to … sit down and talk to the Iranians and offer them two paths. And one brings them back into the community of nations, and the other has some very stark consequences,” Axelrod said.

“We are also mindful of the fact that the nuclear weapons in Iran and the nuclearization of that whole region is a threat to that country, all countries in the region, and the world. And we have to address that. We can’t let that lie,” he said.

Axelrod said Tehran faces a choice between engaging the West or facing further isolation in the wake of a presidential election that sent protesters to the streets and questions about its validity.

“Let’s be clear that we didn’t meddle in the election in Iran,” he said. “The dispute in Iran is between the leadership in Iran and their own people, and plainly, Mr. Ahmadinejad thinks that by fingering the United States, that he can create a political diversion. So I’m not going to entertain his bloviations that are politically motivated.”

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279 comments
1 callahan23  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:26:24am

This is just a f*cking disgrace.

2 [deleted]  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:26:39am
3 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:27:01am

Well, unless Iran has some way to raise the dead, bring them back into the international community is going to be problematic to say the least.

4 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:27:04am

Mr. Axelrod seems unaware that the Iranian government has already chosen a path. It's lined with bones.

5 jcm  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:28:18am

A bloody open hand!

6 Sharmuta  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:28:32am

Political suicide, imo. They're welcome to push ahead with it though. It's going to cost them.

7 [deleted]  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:28:56am
8 clgood  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:29:05am

I'm sure all a nuclear Iran will need to behave is a stern talking-to by a buffoon with a $500-a-day Teleprompter habit.

9 debutaunt  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:29:19am

OK. I'm officially disheartened.

10 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:30:22am

re: #2 buzzsawmonkey

They want a nuclear Iran. They really, really want it. Because they think they can manipulate a nuclear Iran as the stick to force Israel to agree to giving up the West Bank and Jerusalem.

They are deranged fools.

No they are not. They are universalist one-world utopian "can't we all get along" enhanced spiritual-beings who think...

Ah hell... they are deranged fools.

11 pat  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:30:23am

Reality is not this Administration's strong point.

12 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:31:16am

Some nuance here.....
In Iran Turmoil, U.S. Sees Chance to Gain Sway in Mideast

The Obama administration and its Middle East allies are looking to capitalize on Iran's political crisis to reverse strategic gains Tehran has made across the region, said U.S. and Arab officials.
....
U.S. strategists are assessing whether Iran's inner turmoil will force its clerical leaders to rein in support for those organizations and focus instead on quelling domestic dissent.

Or, as some U.S. strategists fear, whether Iran's leaders, feeling weakened at home, will seek to expand Iran's overseas operations in order to appear strong.
....
"If Syria feels the Iranian situation is unraveling, that's a good thing from our perspective," said a senior Obama administration official working on the Middle East. He said the U.S. has been pushing Damascus to curtail Hamas's military activities and to pursue direct peace talks with Israel.

American and Middle East diplomats said Iran's internal instability could also aid U.S. efforts to push ahead with a broader Arab-Israeli peace initiative. A key stumbling block to the process has been the political split between the Palestinian territories' two main political factions, Fatah and Hamas.

Any signs that Tehran's support for Hamas is ebbing, said these diplomats, could bolster the Egyptian-led effort to unify the two factions and accelerate peace talks with the Israelis.

"Hamas runs the risk of finding itself isolated regionally," said a Middle East diplomat working on the peace process.

13 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:31:27am

Could you imagine if Ronald Reagan had taken the same philosophy with Russia?

"The gulags, the secret police, the repression...that's between the Russian people and their government."

Also, exactly what are the stark consequences? If killing, beating, torturing this many of their people doesn't bring on these dreaded stark consequences, exactly what could they be? I doubt the administration has any military consequences in mind at all, so that leaves only breaking off diplomatic relations, which obviously aren't on the table.

Oh, oh I know....UN resolutions! That'll teach 'em.

14 Syrah  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:31:29am

craven

15 Bloodnok  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:31:39am

This has to be a trial balloon. They could not be this politically naive. This will cost them in approval points if they go through with it.

16 BryanS  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:32:06am

St Obama Strikes again

[Link: whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com...]

A coup in Honduras, authorized by it's supreme court after the Hugo Chavez toady/puppet tried to pass a president for life ballot in contravention to the clear procedures outlined in Honduras's constitution--Obama is "concerned" about following the rule of law. Sounds like that's what the courts and military were doing.

17 Sharmuta  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:32:32am
“We are looking to ... sit down and talk to the Iranians and offer them two paths. And one brings them back into the community of nations, and the other has some very stark consequences,” Axelrod said.

They've already given the finger to "the community of nations", dumbass! So far the consequences seem to be you and your boss still want to talk to them. That will really teach them to slaughter their own people.

MORONS!

18 solomonpanting  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:33:03am
"We can’t let that lie,” he said.

The Administration reserves that privilege when talking to us and itself.

19 littleoldlady  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:33:22am

Poor Ahmadinnerjacket! How frustrated he must be. He just can't say or do ANYTHING to dissuade Obama.

/I guess the invitation for hotdogs on the 4th is back on the table...

20 poteen  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:33:27am

Talking is fine as long as the opening statement includes, "Go ahead, make my day!"

21 haakondahl  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:33:49am

19 hours ago, Winston80 (Winston06 here) posted two reports that PersianKiwi might have been arrested. 18 hours ago, Winston80 posted that he is safe. That's the latest I have seen.

22 NonNativeTexan  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:33:55am

They will be very successful in getting Iran to agree with anything
and follow through on nothing.

23 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:34:31am
“We are looking to ... sit down and talk to the Iranians and offer them two paths. And one brings them back into the community of nations, and the other has some very stark consequences,” Axelrod said.

There goes Axelrod threatening Iran with that sternly worded letter again.

24 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:34:47am

re: #16 BryanS

Obama is "concerned"

/it'd probably be easier to just announce when he's not "concerned"

25 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:34:59am

There is no possibility of anything worthwhile being accomplished by these contacts.
Like Castro's Cuba and Chavez's Venezuela, Iran is a conspiracy theory state: The mullah regime's entire existence is based on anti-American conspiracy claims promulgated by the local and global media. They cannot in any way recognize American intentions without backing away from these claims and undermining the entire case for their existence.

26 little boomer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:35:13am

Bowing down to the greatness of the "Iranian people."

27 Sharmuta  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:35:13am

What stark consequences? What are you going to do, Davey? Continue to tip-toe around them?

Words. Meaningless, toothless words. That's all they have.

28 VegasRick  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:35:24am

re: #21 haakondahl

19 hours ago, Winston80 (Winston06 here) posted two reports that PersianKiwi might have been arrested. 18 hours ago, Winston80 posted that he is safe. That's the latest I have seen.

Thank you for the update. I hope they are safe.

29 Macker  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:35:27am

re: #5 jcm

A bloody open hand!

I'd say the Mullahs have bloody, clenched fists....

30 John Neverbend  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:35:35am

Talking to Iran? I suddenly have a vision of President Bill Pullman in Independence Day talking to the alien through the mangled body of Brent Spiner.

Pullman to Alien: What do you want us to do?
Alien: Die.

31 horse  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:36:05am

Speaking of bloviations, did you hear the one from Obama where he said the cap and trade economic destruction bill is really a job creation bill?

32 blangwort  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:36:56am

Nuclear ambitions, brutal suppression of election protests, in a Theocracy. On what grounds can we possibly deal with a government like that? What value can these talks have that would warrant their existence?

I'm not expecting answers any time soon, though. They're too smart to tell us that much.

33 jcm  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:37:15am

re: #29 Macker

I'd say the Mullahs have bloody, clenched fists....

Obama's open hand........

34 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:37:25am

re: #31 horse

Speaking of bloviations, did you hear the one from Obama where he said the cap and trade economic destruction bill is really a job creation bill?

It will create jobs, just not as many as it destroys.

35 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:37:28am

re: #12 Killgore Trout

Some nuance here.....
In Iran Turmoil, U.S. Sees Chance to Gain Sway in Mideast

U.S. strategists are assessing whether Iran's inner turmoil will force its clerical leaders to rein in support for those organizations and focus instead on quelling domestic dissent.

Well, that's so special. So, the administration is hoping that Iran will be too busy killing it's own citizens to pay much time and attention to helping kill other people in the middle east.

Whew, that's a relief.

36 DEZes  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:38:01am

Not content in looking like fools.
The administration proves it.

37 Macker  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:38:09am

re: #30 John Neverbend

Talking to Iran? I suddenly have a vision of President Bill Pullman in Independence Day talking to the alien through the mangled body of Brent Spiner.

Pullman to Alien: What do you want us to do?
Alien: Die.

Only in this case, أوباما and the Mullahs want us to bow to Islam. Which I will NEVER do. LAN ASTASLEM.

38 haakondahl  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:38:11am

re: #30 John Neverbend

Talking to Iran? I suddenly have a vision of President Bill Pullman in Independence Day talking to the alien through the mangled body of Brent Spiner.

Pullman to Alien: What do you want us to do?
Alien: Die.

Hated that movie. I prefer the Bond version:

Bond: "Do you expect me to talk?"
Goldfinger: "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!"

39 Macker  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:39:05am

re: #33 jcm

Obama's open hand........

Yes, الرئيس أوباما's silence makes his bloodied.

40 Syrah  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:39:07am

re: #17 Sharmuta

They've already given the finger to "the community of nations", dumbass! So far the consequences seem to be you and your boss still want to talk to them. That will really teach them to slaughter their own people.

MORONS!

It seems that the way to get the unconstrained/left to love you is to be bad-crazy 0n the world scene.

41 pat  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:39:10am

re: #31 horse
So the huge unemployment budget put into the bill in anticipation of the shut down in American industry is unnecessary? cool/

42 solomonpanting  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:39:24am

I wonder what will come first before Iran has a fully functioning bomb; the overthrow of the regime from within or a series of Israeli airstrikes.

43 brookly red  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:39:26am

Hmmmm, talking with a regime that consistently calls for the death of America is good, & allowing the congress time to actually read a bill before voting on it is bad... I gotta check out the ODS symptoms page on the WebMD cause I think I may be coming down with it.

44 poteen  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:40:01am

re: #30 John Neverbend

Talking to Iran? I suddenly have a vision of President Bill Pullman in Independence Day talking to the alien through the mangled body of Brent Spiner.

Pullman to Alien: What do you want us to do?
Alien: Die.

Dead on! No pun intended.

45 MacDuff  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:41:12am

Obama's indifference to the plight of the Iranian people is as disgraceful as it is cynical.

"President of the United States"? Yes. "Leader of the Free World"? Not so much.

46 horse  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:41:13am

re: #30 John Neverbend

Talking to Iran? I suddenly have a vision of President Bill Pullman in Independence Day talking to the alien through the mangled body of Brent Spiner.

Pullman to Alien: What do you want us to do?
Alien: Die.

That was a great scene, the summation of futility when attempting to negotiate with destroyers. The mullahs are world destroyers without the means... so far.

47 John Neverbend  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:41:35am

Or, on a more humorous note, imagine Ahmadinejad in a sort of Goldfinger role with Obama spread-eagled on a slab with a laser cutting through it.

Obama: Do you expect me to talk?
Ahmadinejad: No, Mr. Obama! I expect you to die!

48 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:41:45am
Both Rice and David Axelrod, Obama's top adviser, said Ahmadinejad doesn't appear to have the final say over Iran's foreign policy. Axelrod, dismissing Ahmadinejad's harsh language against the U.S. and Obama as "bloviations," said being open to talks with Iran is not an effort to reward the country.


There's also this development....
10:30 PM ET -- Hard-liners and moderates plotting against Khamenei.

The power struggle inside Iran appears to be moving from the streets into the heart of the regime itself this weekend amid reports that Ayatollah Hashemi Rafsanjani is plotting to undermine the power of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Rafsanjani's manoeuvres against Khamenei come as tensions between the speaker of the parliament, Ali Larijani, and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad also appeared to be coming to a head.


There's a lot of political maneuvering within the Iranian government. Maybe Obama is hoping to tip the scales by keeping the possibility of negotiations open. The hardliners might not be in as strong of a position with a willing negotiator on the other end. It might tip the scales towards the moderates.
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out but I'm not overly hopeful.

49 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:42:04am

re: #16 BryanS

St Obama Strikes again

[Link: whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com...]

A coup in Honduras, authorized by it's supreme court after the Hugo Chavez toady/puppet tried to pass a president for life ballot in contravention to the clear procedures outlined in Honduras's constitution--Obama is "concerned" about following the rule of law. Sounds like that's what the courts and military were doing.

The ignoramuses at the EU have already contradicted themselves by simultaneously calling for the Honduran military (ie congress and the supreme court) to release Zelaya and "restore constitutional order."
Among other things, Zelaya fired the head of the armed forces after the latter refused to hold the referendum that had just been declared illegal, he brought in Venezuelan agents to distribute ballots in defiance of Honduran law, and he tried to force local media to carry Cuban and American leftist propaganda for 2 hours every day. It is the Chavez puppet Zelaya who is in violation of constitutional order and rule of law, not the Honduran constitutional authorities who have acted to remove him.

50 John Neverbend  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:42:23am

re: #47 John Neverbend

Or, on a more humorous note, imagine Ahmadinejad in a sort of Goldfinger role with Obama spread-eagled on a slab with a laser cutting through it.

Obama: Do you expect me to talk?
Ahmadinejad: No, Mr. Obama! I expect you to die!

AND NEXT TIME I'LL READ THE PREVIOUS POSTINGS FIRST. SORRY.

51 horse  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:42:40am

re: #34 unrealizedviewpoint

It will create jobs, just not as many as it destroys.

We may know that, but he and his minions deny it.

52 VegasRick  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:43:05am

re: #46 horse

That was a great scene, the summation of futility when attempting to negotiate with destroyers. The mullahs are world destroyers without the means... so far.

And this ain't hollywood. We can't plant a virus in their mothership. (stupid movie).

53 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:43:09am

Where's Waldo the Kang Nam?

/we should know, after all we're giving it a naval escort

54 Sharmuta  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:43:52am

Meanwhile- the regime is arresting Iranian embassy workers, and the Europeans are outraged. Why Europe is coming off stronger against the regime than our own president is beyond me.

Axelrod and the administration are off their meds- the regime has done nothing to show they care about the opinion of the "community of nations". They've repeatedly shown just the opposite. Team 0bama is coming off as clueless or perhaps heartless with this move.

55 Macker  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:43:53am

re: #42 solomonpanting

At this point in time, probably the latter.

56 VegasRick  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:44:03am

re: #51 horse

We may know that, but he and his miniorons deny it.

57 SFGoth  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:44:18am

Pay no attention to that fraud behind the curtain.

58 John Neverbend  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:44:42am

re: #52 VegasRick

And this ain't hollywood. We can't plant a virus in their mothership. (stupid movie).

Let's hope they don't try to plant a virus in our mothership.

59 haakondahl  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:44:50am

re: #52 VegasRick

And this ain't hollywood. We can't plant a virus in their mothership. (stupid movie).

Especially not with an Apple Newton eMate 300. I have one and I love it, but...

60 brookly red  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:44:56am

re: #45 MacDuff

Obama's indifference to the plight of the Iranian people is as disgraceful as it is cynical.

"President of the United States"? Yes. "Leader of the Free World"? Not so much.

Hurumph, the free world is going the way of the glaciers.

61 Lincolntf  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:45:03am

Does Obama (or anyone the Left) honestly believe that the way to repair/improve relations with Iran is to let them lead the way? Barry has essentially let our foreign policy positions be dictated to him by dictators.
I really hope that there's a double extra-secret contingency plan for when the Admin. fails to make any progress. I also hope that they're smart enough to realize that we are maybe only months away from having all negotiations rendered moot by the unveiling of an Iranian nuke.

62 poteen  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:45:04am

re: #38 haakondahl

Hated that movie. I prefer the Bond version:

DinnerJ: "Do you expect me to talkchange?"
USA: "No, Mr. DJ, I expect you to dierun like the dog you are!"

Fixed it for ya.

63 horse  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:45:17am

re: #41 pat

So the huge unemployment budget put into the bill in anticipation of the shut down in American industry is unnecessary? cool/

Perhaps they are some of the "green jobs" he intends. Their job will be to minimize carbon emissions but not engaging in economic activity.

64 brucee  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:45:35am
Axelrod said Tehran faces a choice between engaging the West or facing further isolation in the wake of a presidential election that sent protesters to the streets and questions about its validity.

Because military dictatorships are so afraid of isolation, right? I mean it unclenched North Korea, didn't it?

65 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:45:54am

re: #54 Sharmuta

I just found an interesting update on that story....
Secret camera leads to arrest of 9 in British embassy in Iran

According to sources at the Daily Mail, photos obtained by another British newspaper, the Evening Standard, showed pictures of British embassy staff taking part in the demonstrations. The camera, pictured here, was place in an attic window and trained on the street

66 haakondahl  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:46:06am

re: #53 Killian Bundy

Where's Waldo the Kang Nam?

/we should know, after all we're giving it a naval escort

Hush now. This is part of the Cooperative National Maritime Strategy, and dissent will not be tolerated. Your cowboyish "one nation, one navy" ways are outdated.

67 jcm  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:46:25am

Biden on Obama's crisis

Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right.

Not initially, not finally.....

68 BryanS  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:46:32am

re: #49 Shiplord Kirel

Agreed 100% Why cannot Mr O and the Zeropeans friggin' see who is clearly the despot and who is actually following the law. Is he that enamored with Chavez and his puppet that he cannot see the truth?

69 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:47:02am

Posting this as fyi -- ran across the link to it on the NIAC web site:

from The Cable, ForeignPolicy.com
The Iran chessboard, as seen by Team Obama

70 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:47:19am

re: #51 horse

We may know that, but he and his minions deny it.

They got there's, and now much more. F**k the little guy, he'll vote us anyway.

71 haakondahl  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:47:34am

re: #62 poteen

Fixed it for ya.

I will restrict my comments to policy.

72 J.S.  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:47:43am

re: #54 Sharmuta

yeah, "European outrage" (sorry, I don't think it's legit -- it's what's called "posturing". the biggest exporters in terms of trade/business/industry to Iran -- after China -- is Germany...)

73 poteen  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:48:49am

re: #71 haakondahl

Fair enough.

74 DEZes  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:49:12am

re: #64 brucee

Because military dictatorships are so afraid of isolation, right? I mean it unclenched North Korea, didn't it?

Yup, Obama refuses to understand he is dealing with brutal thugs.
The nicer you treat them, the more they will try and get away with.
You either bust a bully in the mouth, or get used to going without lunch.

75 jaunte  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:49:25am

re: #68 BryanS

Agreed 100% Why cannot Mr O and the Zeropeans friggin' see who is clearly the despot and who is actually following the law. Is he that enamored with Chavez and his puppet that he cannot see the truth?

Maybe someone thinks it's not such a bad idea to rewrite constitutions based on socialist principles, including an option for longer presidential terms.

76 horse  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:49:42am

re: #52 VegasRick

And this ain't hollywood. We can't plant a virus in their mothership. (stupid movie).

Indeed, if they cut back on missile defense there is little we can do. Maybe their version of Hollywood goofiness will be "Why can't we just send in some drones to take them out?"

77 John Neverbend  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:49:49am

re: #62 poteen

Fixed it for ya.

Peace in our time, all over again? I hope not like this.

78 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:50:22am

re: #64 brucee

Because military dictatorships are so afraid of isolation, right? I mean it unclenched North Korea, didn't it?

The isolation helps maintain power. It's communication that dictators fear.

79 slartybartfast  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:50:59am

re: #54 Sharmuta

"Why Europe is coming off stronger against the regime than our own president is beyond me."

The Obama administration sucks and it's created a vacuum.

80 Sharmuta  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:51:23am

re: #40 Syrah

It seems that the way to get the unconstrained/left to love you is to be bad-crazy 0n the world scene.

I don't know what they're thinking, as the home of the unconstrained vision- Europe- is coming out much stronger on this issue. I think 0bama is angering the American progressives with this too. This dedication to normalizing relations despite the recent bloodshed is craven, just like you stated. It seems to me both visions are appalled by this as it's the antithesis of what both hold dear- the rule of law, personal liberties...

It seems the situation has altered to a point where it can't go back. The previous desire to normalize relations won't work now because of the violence, but why they're still pushing ahead is a mystery to me.

81 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:51:55am

re: #68 BryanS

Agreed 100% Why cannot Mr O and the Zeropeans friggin' see who is clearly the despot and who is actually following the law. Is he that enamored with Chavez and his puppet that he cannot see the truth?

Tidbit from one of the MSM reports:

About 100 Zelaya supporters, many wearing "Yes" T-shirts for the referendum, blocked the main street outside the gates to the palace, throwing rocks and insults at soldiers and shouting "Traitors! Traitors!"


What do you want to bet those 100 Chavistas get more coverage from the international media today than the other 7 million Hondurans put together?

82 VegasRick  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:52:00am

re: #76 horse

Indeed, if they cut back on missile defense there is little we can do. Maybe their version of Hollywood goofiness will be "Why can't we just send in some drones to take them out?"

Well, We certainly do have a lot of drones in this country. Unfortunately they can't fly.

83 John Neverbend  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:52:04am

re: #77 John Neverbend

Sorry, I posted the wrong video from an earlier thread. This one's actually funny.

84 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:53:07am

Whoring for 2 Karma points over here.

85 brookly red  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:53:38am

re: #79 slartybartfast

"Why Europe is coming off stronger against the regime than our own president is beyond me."

The Obama administration sucks and it's created a vacuum.

Well, no one expects & rightly so that Europe would actually do anything... they are almost as impotent as the UN.

86 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:53:51am

re: #69 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Posting this as fyi -- ran across the link to it on the NIAC web site:

from The Cable, ForeignPolicy.com
The Iran chessboard, as seen by Team Obama

Interesting. Thanks for posting that.

87 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:53:52am

1 more

88 Sharmuta  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:53:56am

re: #84 unrealizedviewpoint

Say something dingable.

89 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:54:00am

thank you

90 DEZes  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:54:02am

re: #80 Sharmuta

I am beginning to believe, that they actually believe their own bullshit.
They sure expect everyone else to.

91 jcm  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:54:09am

re: #84 unrealizedviewpoint

Whoring for 2 Karma points over here.

Why not, anything to get you off the street.

92 DEZes  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:54:36am

re: #84 unrealizedviewpoint

Whoring for 2 Karma points over here.

Hows that. ;)

93 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:54:37am

Is there anything good about the Obama administration?

/because, so far, domestic and foreign policy don't seem to be their strong suits

94 brookly red  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:54:41am

re: #82 VegasRick

Well, We certainly do have a lot of drones in this country. Unfortunately they can't fly.

but they sure can vote...

95 VegasRick  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:55:05am

re: #84 unrealizedviewpoint

Whoring for 2 Karma points over here.

You dere.

96 VegasRick  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:55:28am

re: #94 brookly red

but they sure can vote...

A few times!

97 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:55:29am

re: #86 Killgore Trout

Interesting. Thanks for posting that.

You're welcome

I distrust "analysis" because of the way it's spelled, ... but still ....

/:D

98 Lincolntf  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:56:40am

re: #93 Killian Bundy

Domestic and foreign policy are low priorities. It's all about the tingles and the applause for this clown.

99 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:57:13am

America is a better country now because Obama has . . .

/take your time

100 itellu3times  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:57:49am

Let us consider the possibility that Obama *has* already figured out that it's hopeless talking to Iran, but feels constrained by his worldview to continue on anyway.

Nearly hopeless.

Bush41 went to the UN, got their proxy, and went to war with Iraq, with at least some token assistance.

Bush43 went to the UN, got at least some vague support, or at least not an outright rejection, and then said we have at least tried and fulfilled the forms. We had a little support from here and there.

Obama001, we might note, has not so far mentioned the UN as such, nor did blabbering mouthpiece Axelrod this morning, that I recall. Obama and the leftards speak grandly of "the international community", which they presume endorses all they say, or think. Of course this is a total fraud. Come on, Barry, take it to the floor of the general assembly, see how far you get. No, too hard? Just let the NYT shill for ya. Wonder how long this can go on.

101 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:58:00am

Whoring for 8,986 karma points.

Hey, why th' hell not ... :D ?

////////////////

102 brookly red  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:58:04am

re: #98 Lincolntf

Domestic and foreign policy are low priorities. It's all about the tingles and the applause for this clown.

If you think domestic policy is a low priority just wait till you get your tax bill...

103 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:58:11am

re: #97 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I liked it because it was a pretty measured article outlining the logic behind negotiations and explored the pro's and cons. It might work but I think it's a long shot.

104 debutaunt  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:58:52am

re: #99 Killian Bundy

America is a better country now because Obama has . . .

/take your time


...begun the search for a clue.

105 [deleted]  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:58:56am
106 Lincolntf  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:59:36am

re: #102 brookly red

My mistake. Constructive domestic policies are a low priority.

107 DEZes  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:59:41am

re: #101 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Whoring for 8,986 karma points.

Hey, why th' hell not ... :D ?

////////////////

Its a race you want huh, last one to 9000 karma is a hatchling. ;)

108 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:59:51am

re: #103 Killgore Trout

I liked it because it was a pretty measured article outlining the logic behind negotiations and explored the pro's and cons. It might work but I think it's a long shot.

Yes, I didn't have time to digest it, but it seemed rational.

109 brookly red  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:59:51am

re: #101 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Whoring for 8,986 karma points.

Hey, why th' hell not ... :D ?

////////////////

running for congress are you now ?

110 jaunte  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:59:57am

re: #99 Killian Bundy

America is a better country now because Obama has . . .

/take your time

...a fabulous smile.

111 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:00:01am
We are looking to ... sit down and talk to the Iranians and offer them two paths. And one brings them back into the community of nations, and the other has some very stark consequences....

Good grief.

What are we going to do, escort their ships and planes transferring arms or even combatants as we're doing with the Norks?

We're extremely vulnerable in, oh-so, many ways and all I witness is Obama & Co. in La-La Land making us more vulnerable with each passing week, if not by day.

Spooky.

112 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:00:48am

IRAN: Jun 28; Peaceful people chant at legal gathering at mosque

113 VegasRick  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:01:20am

re: #99 Killian Bundy

America is a better country now because Obama has . . .

/take your time

/

Bring the cannolis leave the sarc tag, were gonna need it!

114 horse  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:01:44am

re: #99 Killian Bundy

America is a better country now because Obama has . . .

/take your time

been elected... that is all. No other results or achievements are really necessary or relevant as far as they are concerned.

115 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:01:54am

re: #107 DEZes

Its a race you want huh, last one to 9000 karma is a hatchling. ;)

The race goes to he with (an) athlete's foot beneath his sock.

116 poteen  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:01:59am

re: #83 John Neverbend

You had me confused.. I honestly don't think it will go like that despite what Obama is saying and not saying. His whole Saul Alinsky/Chicago political upbringing is NOT about 'engaging' your opponents. It has been, to the dismay of Republicans, about defeating them.
Metaphorically speaking, I think, I HOPE he's waving carrots at the regime while Frank Nitti's sneaking up behind them with a Thompson.

117 jaunte  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:02:05am

David Pryce-Jones
Mullahs Make Mistakes

"The length of time that passes before some British or even American official says that none of this bears on willingness to enter negotiations over the Iranian nuclear program will be the measure of Western defeatism and masochism. And the mullahs will then conclude that they have only to extend the chain of mistakes and lying."
118 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:02:28am

This'll make a lot of people happy.....
MICHELLE OBAMA BOOZE BINGES

Michelle Obama - cracking under the pressure of being First Lady - is drinking way more than she should, friends fear.

Longtime pals have been keeping a close eye on her White House booze intake for months, sources told The ENQUIRER, and her husband President Barack Obama even stepped in when she recently consumed too much alcohol.

"When Barack saw Michelle drink more than she should at a recent dinner, he hit the roof. He told her, 'This is NOT going to turn into a problem!'" a close source told The ENQUIRER.

119 brookly red  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:02:34am

re: #99 Killian Bundy

America is a better country now because Obama has . . .

/take your time

apologized for our existence?

120 callahan23  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:02:52am

re: #107 DEZes

Its a race you want huh, last one to 9000 karma is a hatchling. ;)


Hi buddy, there are only 5 to go. Yeah!

121 Sharmuta  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:03:06am

I have to wonder if the regime will use these statements to discourage the Iranian people that they're not supported. That America will talk to murderous thugs.

Of course- that America talks to murderous thugs is why anti-Americanism persists, so I fail to see how 0bama's foreign policy is an improvement from the past.

What do they think they'll accomplish with these talks? Driving a wedge between Tehran and Moscow? Good luck with that.

122 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:03:10am

re: #109 brookly red

running for congress are you now ?

No ... I'm not prepared to pay money for the karma points.

123 DEZes  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:03:46am

re: #115 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The race goes to he with (an) athlete's foot beneath his sock.

Arent you a fugi.

124 brookly red  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:03:56am

re: #122 pre-Boomer Marine brat

No ... I'm not prepared to pay money for the karma points.

not even other people's money? ;)

125 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:04:13am

re: #117 jaunte

Heh. There's an interesting theory.

126 itellu3times  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:05:29am

re: #118 Killgore Trout

This'll make a lot of people happy.....
MICHELLE OBAMA BOOZE BINGES

If this is true now, I presume it has also occurred in the past.

127 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:05:36am

J. R. R. Tolkien Marathon in Iran

What message does J. R. R. Tolkien's epic "Lord of the Rings" trilogy send about government, political unrest, and revolution?

According to a Time Magazine dispatch with the protective byline "A Time Reporter in Tehran," one Iranian television is playing Peter Jackson's film adaptation of Tolkien's story to calm the populace. The writer watches the movie with a family, wondering how millions of Iranians will interpret this televised message.

Here's an excerpt: "[The wizard Gandalf] casts a blinding white light, his face hidden behind a halo. Someone blurts out, "Imam zaman e?!" (Is it the Imam?!) It is a reference, of course, to the white-bearded Ayatullah Khomeini, who is respectfully called Imam Khomeini. But 'Imam' is at the same time a title of the Mahdi, a messianic figure that Muslims believe will come to save true believers from powerful evildoers at the time of the apocalypse.

128 DEZes  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:05:46am

re: #120 callahan23

Hi buddy, there are only 5 to go. Yeah!

I am dinging PBMB to give it more flair.

129 Lincolntf  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:05:57am

Okay. I've just read three different articles on the Honduran situation. Are there any definitively "good" guys in this fight? Zelaya seems like a pretty run-of-the-mill Central American leader. I always get nervous when the military takes over a country in our hemisphere.
Hopefully, there's a genuine anti-corruption/pro-Democracy movement down there, but I haven't seen it yet.

130 John Neverbend  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:06:38am

re: #112 Killgore Trout

IRAN: Jun 28; Peaceful people chant at legal gathering at mosque

I wonder what they were chanting. I always thought "chanting" was what I did at my bar mitzvah, but I now see that the dictionary definition includes "phrase spoken repeatedly by crowd."

131 midwestgak  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:06:56am

OT Billing Mays is dead. Airplane incident.

132 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:07:04am

re: #129 Lincolntf

Okay. I've just read three different articles on the Honduran situation. Are there any definitively "good" guys in this fight? Zelaya seems like a pretty run-of-the-mill Central American leader. I always get nervous when the military takes over a country in our hemisphere.
Hopefully, there's a genuine anti-corruption/pro-Democracy movement down there, but I haven't seen it yet.

You still looking?
Good luck.

133 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:07:29am

re: #126 itellu3times

I doubt it's true. As long as she doesn't fall down at ceremonial events I don't care. I enjoy a nice beverage myself.

134 jaunte  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:07:37am

re: #125 Killgore Trout

The British do have a history there, but I think our present-day "Satan quotient" is greater/more useful for the mullahs.

135 callahan23  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:07:57am

re: #128 DEZes

I am dinging PBMB to give it more flair.

It was a tight race.

! ! ! 9000 ! ! !

Congatulations

136 DEZes  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:08:58am

re: #135 callahan23

It was a tight race.

! ! ! 9000 ! ! !

Congatulations

Now to get you to 3000. ;)

137 haakondahl  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:09:18am

Some economic charts:

WSJ Opinion piece written by Arthur Laffer. Yes, that Laffer. Addresses the implications of the unbelievable increase in money supply brought about by stimulus & co., and a good explanation of money supply anyway.

Blog post up at Innocent Bystanders, which has been corrected, showing the Obama team's projections for unemployment if their plan were not enacted, and how much better it would be if their plan were enacted. Plotted against that are the actual unemployment numbers through May.

138 MacDuff  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:09:25am

re: #54 Sharmuta

Meanwhile- the regime is arresting Iranian embassy workers, and the Europeans are outraged. Why Europe is coming off stronger against the regime than our own president is beyond me.

Axelrod and the administration are off their meds- the regime has done nothing to show they care about the opinion of the "community of nations". They've repeatedly shown just the opposite. Team 0bama is coming off as clueless or perhaps heartless with this move.

Sadly, I think that "Team Obama" knows exactly what it's doing and that is what frightens me the most. This whole Iranian situation is eroding American influence around the world when it should have been used to bolster it. Obama is a heartless realist and a cynical internationalist; he will continue to forge "relationships" with the madmen of the world with no regard to "American" principles. He said as much during the election when he stated that he would negotiate with Iran "without preconditions".

He's intoxicated with his own his self-perception and the more cheering he gets from the MSM sycophants, the more intoxicated he becomes. In the end, alas, the hangover will not only be his, but will be shared with millions both here in the U.S. and around the globe.

Freedom loving people need no longer look to the U.S. for support for the "Leader of the Free World" has become the Cynic-in-Chief.

139 callahan23  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:10:12am

re: #118 Killgore Trout

This'll make a lot of people happy.....
MICHELLE OBAMA BOOZE BINGES

"When Barack saw Michelle drink more than she should at a recent dinner, he hit the roof. He told her, 'This is NOT going to turn into a problem!'" a close source told The ENQUIRER.

And again it is the Enquirer that is doin' the diggin'.
The FMSM just plain misses it's job requirements.

140 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:11:21am

re: #118 Killgore Trout

This'll make a lot of people happy.....
MICHELLE OBAMA BOOZE BINGES

If it turns out, over the long haul, to be true, it won't make me happy.

We broke the Catholic bar with JFK. We broke the Black bar with Obama. It will do a great disservice to America as a whole if the latter has to be "broken" all over again -- next time, starting with a handicap.

141 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:11:31am

re: #139 callahan23

And again it is the Enquirer that is doin' the diggin'.
The FMSM just plain misses it's job requirements.

Inquiring minds want to know...

142 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:12:08am

re: #140 pre-Boomer Marine brat

If it turns out, over the long haul, to be true, it won't make me happy.

We broke the Catholic bar with JFK. We broke the Black bar with Obama. It will do a great disservice to America as a whole if the latter has to be "broken" all over again -- next time, starting with a handicap.

Did we break the alcoholic's bar?

143 callahan23  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:12:16am

re: #136 DEZes

Now to get you to 3000. ;)

That's still some way to go.
Meanwhile I am going to get some dinner. BBIAW

144 itellu3times  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:12:24am

re: #133 Killgore Trout

I doubt it's true. As long as she doesn't fall down at ceremonial events I don't care. I enjoy a nice beverage myself.

I have just two words: Ladybird Johnson. Oops, no, I mean Betty Ford.

/sober as I ever am

145 haakondahl  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:12:26am

re: #118 Killgore Trout

Why would you even post that crap?

146 DEZes  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:13:18am

re: #139 callahan23

And again it is the Enquirer that is doin' the diggin'.
The FMSM just plain misses it's job requirements.

Obama, drunk with power.
Michelle, drunk.

It is for certain half true.

147 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:13:26am

re: #137 haakondahl

Some economic charts:

WSJ Opinion piece written by Arthur Laffer. Yes, that Laffer. Addresses the implications of the unbelievable increase in money supply brought about by stimulus & co., and a good explanation of money supply anyway.

Blog post up at Innocent Bystanders, which has been corrected, showing the Obama team's projections for unemployment if their plan were not enacted, and how much better it would be if their plan were enacted. Plotted against that are the actual unemployment numbers through May.

/"saved or created", look in the fiction section

148 Lincolntf  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:13:30am

re: #139 callahan23

Yeah, one of Bush's daughters had a few Bud Lights while in college and it was practically front page news.
That said, whether or not Michelle has a drinking problem is the Obama's business, not ours. There are little kids to consider.

149 Sharmuta  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:13:58am

re: #138 MacDuff

He's intoxicated with his own his self-perception and the more cheering he gets from the MSM sycophants, the more intoxicated he becomes.

And again, Michael Jackson's death was a God send to the msm so they could go back to not bothering with the plight of the Iranian people. One has to wonder if Tiananmen Square would have been covered had some huge celebrity died that weekend 20 years ago. Disgusting thought.

I hate the msm.

150 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:13:59am

re: #136 DEZes

Now to get you to 3000. ;)

Hey, some of us aren't quite close to 1000 yet :(

151 J.S.  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:14:49am

re: #138 MacDuff

I don't know. Soo, which State currently imposes trade sanctions against Iran? Name the State. And, conversely, who continues to trade with Iran -- so as to ensure the Mullahs continue to prosper and grow? According to an Associated Press "The biggest players in the Iranian market are in Asia and Europe. Last year, China shipped $8 billion worth of goods to Iran; Germany, $5.7 billion; Italy, $3.2 billion; France, $2.6 billion; and Japan, $1.9 billion."

152 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:14:59am

re: #149 Sharmuta

And again, Michael Jackson's death was a God send to the msm so they could go back to not bothering with the plight of the Iranian people. One has to wonder if Tiananmen Square would have been covered had some huge celebrity died that weekend 20 years ago. Disgusting thought.

I hate the msm.

Notice just about every one of them forgot Farah Fawcett died as soon as they heard about Michael.

153 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:15:03am

re: #145 haakondahl

Why would you even post that crap?

I agree. The Enquirer? C'mon?

154 DEZes  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:15:34am

re: #150 Hengineer

Hey, some of us aren't quite close to 1000 yet :(

we can work on that too.
lots a lizards here. ;)

155 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:16:25am

re: #153 unrealizedviewpoint

I agree. The Enquirer? C'mon?

Would you rather he posted some NYT or WaPo?

156 Steffan  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:16:41am

Ya gotta love it:

The European Union's blind hatred of Microsoft looks to have backfired bigtime and millions of European users looking to upgrade to Windows 7 will now have to reinstall all their programs and data rather than a doing a simple upgrade from Vista.

As a result of the EU's antitrust action - taken on the pretext of offering users more choice - Microsoft plans to ship special European variants of its new OS, scheduled for launch in October. The E version of Win7 has IE8 stripped out, while the N version contains neither IE8 nor Windows Media Player.

But because the upgrade path from Vista to the E or the N versions of Windows 7 won't support an in-place upgrade, users will be forced to do a clean install, having backed up all their files and settings and reinstalling applications afterwards.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot....

Heh.

157 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:16:49am

re: #145 haakondahl

Why would you even post that crap?

Because according to him, this article should make "everyone happy" which is his snide way of saying all Lizards.

So, I hope all Lizards are happy now.

158 iLikeCandy  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:17:22am

I can attest to the futility of any talks, because I used to be Iran.

explanation: When I was a rebellious teenager, one of the religious peeps who taught me said, "Well the community is having a synod, and if you don't bring your concerns to the table then you'll have no right to ever complain about it again!"

Trouble was, the community itself was my "concern"; I didn't believe in one bit of it and the only discussion I would entertain was one that would declare that its foundations were bogus and that it should be dissolved.

Come to think of it, I still am Iran. I left the community and I'll never work within it.

159 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:18:02am

re: #156 Steffan

Ya gotta love it:

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot....

Heh.

That's funny, only the government is allowed to have a monopoly on a certain market in Europe anyway!

160 VegasRick  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:18:05am

re: #140 pre-Boomer Marine brat

If it turns out, over the long haul, to be true, it won't make me happy.

We broke the Catholic bar with JFK. We broke the Black bar with Obama. It will do a great disservice to America as a whole if the latter has to be "broken" all over again -- next time, starting with a handicap.

I'm guessing "Martian". I'm voting for DEZes!

161 Racer X  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:18:15am

re: #54 Sharmuta

Why Europe is coming off stronger against the regime than our own president is beyond me.

This is actually great news. European press can be brutal. Europe looks for America to swoop in with troops to save the day. Then they bash America for being, well, America. When America no longer performs this task, NO ONE else will. This makes Europeans very nervous. Watch as they blast Obama on his lack of balls.

162 wahabicorridor  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:18:54am

re: #155 Hengineer

Would you rather he posted some NYT or WaPo?

Well, to be fair, they did break the story obout John Edwards love child..................

163 avanti  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:18:55am

re: #118 Killgore Trout

This'll make a lot of people happy.....
MICHELLE OBAMA BOOZE BINGES

"Michelle, 45, knocked back "a glass or two of champagne" while the couple flew to the Big Apple on a private jet, according to the close source, and published reports said she downed two martinis during dinner at the Greenwich Village restaurant Blue Hill."

That kind of story would not be news if it was not the First Lady or the POTUS. Obama even regretted downing a beer at a basketball game. It is however, a fact of life that they can't get tipsy in public while he is in office. It gets drunk out once or twice a month for me, so I'd be in deep trouble. :)
She is the First Lady, and can't be a woo ! girl for a few years.

164 J.S.  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:19:45am

re: #161 Racer X

imo, the only thing you can really depend upon from Europe is moral hypocrisy and anti-Americanism.

165 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:20:01am

OT, CNET FINALLY has a review of the new Toshiba NB205 netbook (which I purchased from Best Buy). And as always, CNET considers aesthetics and "prettiness" far more than it should.

Damn thing has a battery life beyond compare.

166 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:20:34am

re: #162 wahabicorridor

Well, to be fair, they did break the story obout John Edwards love child..................

Only because Edwards wasn't the beloved prince anymore....

If Edwards was the actual Presidential hopeful, do you think they would have?

167 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:20:40am

re: #155 Hengineer

Would you rather he posted some NYT or WaPo?

I find all three lacking in credibility, each for different reasons though. WaPo & NYT both slant liberal to the point of outright lying to support their agenda. The Enquirer simply makes shit up to support their bottom line.

168 VioletTiger  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:20:46am

re: #149 Sharmuta

And again, Michael Jackson's death was a God send to the msm so they could go back to not bothering with the plight of the Iranian people. One has to wonder if Tiananmen Square would have been covered had some huge celebrity died that weekend 20 years ago. Disgusting thought.

I hate the msm.

Isn't it ironic that they were leading the charge at dissing him when he had legal troubles? Now it's all MJ all the time.
Disgusting hypocrites.

169 DEZes  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:20:53am

re: #160 VegasRick

I'm guessing "Martian". I'm voting for DEZes!

That would give a new meaning to take me to your leader.

170 jaunte  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:20:55am

re: #157 Walter L. Newton

Because according to him, this article should make "everyone happy" which is his snide way of saying all Lizards.

So, I hope all Lizards are happy now.

I would not be made happier if I learned that the first lady actually had a drinking problem. I don't think it's true.

171 Lincolntf  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:20:55am

re: #164 J.S.

And cheese. Don't forget the cheese.

172 avanti  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:21:13am

re: #133 Killgore Trout

I doubt it's true. As long as she doesn't fall down at ceremonial events I don't care. I enjoy a nice beverage myself.

I agree, for her, however the POTUS should avoid even a buzz.

173 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:21:33am

re: #167 unrealizedviewpoint

The Enquirer simply makes shit up to support their bottom line.

And they other two don't?

;-)

174 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:21:35am

re: #118 Killgore Trout

This'll make a lot of people happy.....
MICHELLE OBAMA BOOZE BINGES

Killgore, you seem to hold all Lizards in distain, yet you want us to listen to you, but refrain from debating a topic with you if we don't agree. It's a strange way to influence friends.

175 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:21:40am
This'll make a lot of people happy....

-- and --

Because according to him, this article should make "everyone happy" ...

What's the difference between these two?

/just askin'

176 westman  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:21:46am

I tried to give President Obama the benefit of the doubt concerning his tepid remarks on Iran a week or so ago. But this is really disheartening.

In hindsight, I fear that his statements at that time were the bare minimum necessary to retain some credibility on Iran here in the United States.

You have to wonder what Iranian protesters make of this. I know that their protests are really being driven by the situation within Iran. Still, this has to be discouraging to them.

177 haakondahl  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:21:53am

re: #155 Hengineer

Would you rather he posted some NYT or WaPo?

Do you have any real misunderstanding what I'm talking about?

178 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:23:01am

re: #177 haakondahl

Do you have any real misunderstanding what I'm talking about?

No, actually I do understand what you mean, I just think its amusing that anyone would find the Enquirer credible at all.

179 brookly red  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:23:07am

re: #174 Walter L. Newton

Killgore, you seem to hold all Lizards in distain, yet you want us to listen to you, but refrain from debating a topic with you if we don't agree. It's a strange way to influence friends.

/seems to work good on voters though...

180 poteen  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:23:25am

re: #118 Killgore Trout

This'll make a lot of people happy.....
MICHELLE OBAMA BOOZE BINGES

// Why KT? Why?
Now I have a picture in my head of our First Lady in the White House garden with a trowel in one hand and a beer in the other. Why?//

181 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:23:50am

re: #178 Hengineer

No, actually I do understand what you mean, I just think its amusing that anyone would find the Enquirer credible at all.

And I find it disheartening that Killgore would post this here and say "This'll make a lot of people happy."

What does he take us for, idiots?

182 brookly red  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:23:52am

re: #178 Hengineer

No, actually I do understand what you mean, I just think its amusing that anyone would find the Enquirer credible at all.

well they did cover that Edwards thingy...

183 Lincolntf  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:24:11am

Speaking of alcohol and political spouses, any of the Massachusetts lizards remember the years and years of stories about Kitty Dukakis? Drinking rubbing alcohol, sneaking out of rehab, etc. It was bizarre.
Hard to know how much was true, but she spent a helluva lot of time "suffering from dehydration and exhaustion".

184 Sharmuta  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:24:28am

re: #157 Walter L. Newton

Because according to him, this article should make "everyone happy" which is his snide way of saying all Lizards.

So, I hope all Lizards are happy now.

That's not what he said. He said "a lot of people". I figured he meant the pamela geller types. Is he wrong?

185 avanti  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:24:42am

re: #174 Walter L. Newton

Killgore, you seem to hold all Lizards in distain, yet you want us to listen to you, but refrain from debating a topic with you if we don't agree. It's a strange way to influence friends.

I have to agree with Walter on this one. A straight report without speculating on how the Lizards feel would be better.

186 Racer X  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:24:44am

re: #174 Walter L. Newton

Killgore, you seem to hold all Lizards in distain, yet you want us to listen to you, but refrain from debating a topic with you if we don't agree. It's a strange way to influence friends.

Dude likes to toss out bait and see who bites.

187 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:24:50am

re: #180 poteen

re: #118 Killgore Trout

This'll make a lot of people happy.....
MICHELLE OBAMA BOOZE BINGES

// Why KT? Why?
Now I have a picture in my head of our First Lady in the White House garden with a trowel in one hand and a beer in the other. Why?//

Trowel, booze, and magic beans...

188 VioletTiger  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:25:08am

re: #153 unrealizedviewpoint

I agree. The Enquirer? C'mon?

Really. A story from a paper that talks about aliens possessing cows and lord knows what other kind of crap?
No thanks.

189 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:25:31am

re: #74 DEZes

Yup, Obama refuses to understand he is dealing with brutal thugs.
The nicer you treat them, the more they will try and get away with.
You either bust a bully in the mouth, or get used to going without lunch.

Yeah, tragedy is that Obama thinks if he preemptively destroys our economy, hence our lunches, the world will like us again...

*SPIT...

190 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:25:48am

re: #184 Sharmuta

That's not what he said. He said "a lot of people". I figured he meant the pamela geller types. Is he wrong?

Precisely, and so what if he meant others too?

/see my #175

191 haakondahl  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:25:51am

re: #165 Hengineer

OT, CNET FINALLY has a review of the new Toshiba NB205 netbook (which I purchased from Best Buy). And as always, CNET considers aesthetics and "prettiness" far more than it should.

Damn thing has a battery life beyond compare.

Toshiba sold out the U.S. Navy. Don't buy Toshiba.

192 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:26:28am

re: #184 Sharmuta

That's not what he said. He said "a lot of people". I figured he meant the pamela geller types. Is he wrong?

I misquoted, he said "This'll make a lot of people happy." Why would we care? Killgore frequently makes all inclusive statements like that, and it is evident from the up dings I have received, that I am not the only Lizard aware of this and turned off by it.

If you like it, fine.

193 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:26:35am

re: #181 Walter L. Newton

And I find it disheartening that Killgore would post this here and say "This'll make a lot of people happy."

What does he take us for, idiots?

Heh, need you ask that question?

194 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:27:08am

re: #191 haakondahl

Toshiba sold out the U.S. Navy. Don't buy Toshiba.

What do you mean by that?

195 VegasRick  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:27:34am

re: #169 DEZes

That would give a new meaning to take me to your leader.

Under Ozero, they now say "Take me to your lender!"

196 jcm  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:27:53am

re: #180 poteen

re: #118 Killgore Trout

This'll make a lot of people happy.....
MICHELLE OBAMA BOOZE BINGES

// Why KT? Why?
Now I have a picture in my head of our First Lady in the White House garden with a trowel in one hand and a beer in the other. Why?//

Lifting drinks is good exercise for tone arms!

/////////////////

197 poteen  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:27:59am

re: #187 unrealizedviewpoint

"Michelle and the Beanstalk?" A CIA plot.//

198 VioletTiger  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:28:07am

I wonder if the president, regardless of which one, can ever really tie one on? Isn't it like you are the designated driver for the next four years? You can't even get away with being sick, much less toasted.

199 wahabicorridor  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:28:08am

re: #166 Hengineer

If Edwards was the actual Presidential hopeful, do you think they would have?

Are you serious? Do you know how many papers THAT would have sold?

200 DEZes  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:28:33am

re: #195 VegasRick

Under Ozero, they now say "Take me to your lender!"

Can you spare a few Quatloos?

201 jcm  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:28:40am

re: #191 haakondahl

Toshiba sold out the U.S. Navy. Don't buy Toshiba.

The multidimensional CNC machines to Russia?

202 haakondahl  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:28:45am

re: #178 Hengineer

No, actually I do understand what you mean, I just think its amusing that anyone would find the Enquirer credible at all.

Roger. I missed the half-twist at the end of that.

203 MacDuff  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:29:27am

re: #151 J.S.

I don't know. Soo, which State currently imposes trade sanctions against Iran? Name the State. And, conversely, who continues to trade with Iran -- so as to ensure the Mullahs continue to prosper and grow? According to an Associated Press "The biggest players in the Iranian market are in Asia and Europe. Last year, China shipped $8 billion worth of goods to Iran; Germany, $5.7 billion; Italy, $3.2 billion; France, $2.6 billion; and Japan, $1.9 billion."

OK, point well taken. I was thinking in philosphical rather than financial, but you make a good point. Up to NOW, we have, at least, refused to trade with them.

Do you think that these decades old trade sanctions may be used as a bargaining chip in order to bring Iran to the "bargaining table"? Is it not the only chip we have at this point?

204 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:30:14am

re: #199 wahabicorridor

Are you serious? Do you know how many papers THAT would have sold?

I meant if Edwards was the Democratic Presidential Hopeful, do you think they would have.

Think about all the dirt that could've been printed on Obama, but never was....

205 jorline  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:30:21am

Yakety Yak...don't talk back!

Axelrod, dismissing Ahmadinejad’s harsh language against the U.S. and Obama as “bloviations,” said being open to talks with Iran is not an effort to reward the country.

206 Dirk Diggler  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:30:37am

Wildly OT,

I hope the U.S. kicks the snot out of Brazil in the FIFA Confederation Cup Final. Most of my international friends are more pumped about the prospect of a U.S. soccer victory than the Americans I know.

207 wahabicorridor  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:31:51am

re: #204 Hengineer

Yes, I do. The Enquirer LOVES dirt - they're non-partisan about it.

208 brookly red  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:32:02am

re: #188 Violet Tiger

Rally. A story from a paper that talks about aliens possessing cows and lord knows what other kind of crap?
No thanks.

/as opposed to the sacred truth as presented by the NYT? Possessed cows, magic unicorns, same BS higher reading level.

209 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:32:08am

re: #202 haakondahl

Roger. I missed the half-twist at the end of that.

I understand, I was probably a bit cryptic myself.

210 J.S.  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:32:36am

re: #203 MacDuff

yes, it's probably the only bargaining chip left with the United States...and, frankly, I figure it's only a matter of time before the Obama administration adopts the European attitude...we'll probably soon see the U.S. opening up a trade relationship...

211 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:32:43am

re: #207 wahabicorridor

Yes, I do. The Enquirer LOVES dirt - they're non-partisan about it.

I don't consider the Enquirer MSM. I was talking about the other two, WaPo and NYT.

212 haakondahl  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:33:06am

re: #194 Hengineer

What do you mean by that?

Wikipedia has it just about right:

In 1987, Toshiba Machine, a subsidiary of Toshiba, was accused of illegally selling CNC milling machines used to produce very quiet submarine propellers to the Soviet Union in violation of the CoCom agreement, an international embargo on certain countries to COMECON countries. The Toshiba-Kongsberg scandal involved a subsidiary of Toshiba and the Norwegian company Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk. The incident strained relations between the United States and Japan, and resulted in the arrest and prosecution of two senior executives, as well as the imposition of sanctions on the company by both countries.[3] The US had always relied on the fact that the Soviets had noisy boats, so technology that would make the USSR's submarines harder to detect created a significant threat to America's security. Senator John Heinz of Pennsylvania said "What Toshiba and Kongsberg did was ransom the security of the United States for $517 million."

213 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:34:33am

re: #212 haakondahl

Right, something that happened 20 years ago that really doesn't have any bearing on today's politics (let alone levels of technology).

214 ashan  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:34:44am

This is acceptable "diplomacy" only for the morally bankrupt P(revaricator)OTUS Hussein and his band of rowdy, uppity adolescent thugs.

6 months into this nightmare and no relief in sight. When people finally come to their senses, the impeachment - nay, treason - hearings will begin.

215 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:35:28am

re: #213 Hengineer

Right, something that happened 20 years ago that really doesn't have any bearing on today's politics (let alone levels of technology).

If Toshiba had sold something only a few years ago (let's say since 2001), then I might take that seriously.

216 haakondahl  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:36:39am

re: #201 jcm

The multidimensional CNC machines to Russia?

Yup.

217 haakondahl  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:38:58am

re: #215 Hengineer

If Toshiba had sold something only a few years ago (let's say since 2001), then I might take that seriously.

Suit yourself. I, for one, know how to hold a grudge.

218 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:39:57am

[Link: www.securityinfowatch.com...]

Toshiba Brings WIRELESS Video Streaming TO U.S. Navy
Updated: 02-6-2009 1:07 pm

DALLAS, TX -- Toshiba Security & Network Video, a leading supplier of video surveillance solutions, has brought reliable, high-resolution video capability to a new unmanned watercraft vehicle employed by the United States Navy for homeland security and other critical military operations.

"SEA FOX" PROVIDES VIDEO FROM ONE MILE AWAY

Two Toshiba IK-WB11A wireless network cameras, along with network video equipment empowered by netSCOPE Inc. software, were recently mounted on a remote-controlled, 16-foot Zodiac-style watercraft dubbed the "Sea Fox" to enable transmission of live color video from the boat to an on-shore base station. Sharp and bright, even in low light environments, the video streams can be clearly viewed on a Microsoft Windows notebook PC from up to one mile away.

The pole-mounted cameras ' one mounted to face forward and the other aft ' provide a full 115-degree horizontal viewing area. The operator can view them individually (640x480) or side by side (320x240). The remotely controlled pan-tilt-zoom functions maximize flexibility of this advanced surveillance system. Pointing and clicking on the navigation panel displayed on the notebook's monitor alongside the video images administer the PTZ controls.

The Sea Fox was designed to be sent into areas, such as a harbor or marina, ahead of troops to provide visual detection of land- or water-based dangers. Powered by a 200 horsepower, jet fuel engine, the GPS-equipped Sea Fox is capable of running 45 knots in 8-foot seas for upwards of 24 hours straight. The Office of Naval Research publicly debuted the Sea Fox at this years Fleet Week event in New York City from May 26-June 2.

"The Sea Fox camera system performed extremely well at Fleetweek and received high marks from attending members of the defense community," noted Jeff Dodge, President, netSCOPE, Inc, Charleston, South Carolina. "We had only three daysbefore Fleetweek to put the video system together for the Sea Fox so it was only by the skill of our software programmers combined with the high quality and ease-of-use of the Toshiba cameras that made it possible."

The Sea Fox system was developed by netSCOPE, Inc. through a joint program with Charleston SPAWAR and other private businesses transferring technology to the defense industry.

ABOUT THE IK-WB11A

The Toshiba IK-WB11A ($599 U.S.) is a wireless network camera that allows users to remotely view live, high-resolution (up to 1280 x 960) video streams with audio of homes, day care centers, schools, or businesses from anywhere in the world, via the internet, using a standard web browser.Versatile, affordable and simple to install for seamless network connectivity, the IK-WB11A offers these key features: a 1.4 megapixel progressive scan CCD, an SD card slot, remote Pan and Tilt control, an alarm function, motion detection, and a privacy mask. The compact camera measures a mere 5.0 x 5.0 x 4.7 inches and can be mounted virtually anywhere.

The IK-WB11A has its own built-in video server, so there is no need for an on-site PC for operation. Only a power source and an Ethernet network (10/100) connection or a wireless router is required. This all-in-one system architecture permits the IK-WB11A to be used for virtually any monitoring scenario.

For more information, U.S. customers can call 1-877-MYNETCAM. Or visit [Link: www.netcam.toshiba.com....] Go to [Link: www.shoptoshiba.com...] to purchase Toshiba items on-line.

219 JPL17  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:40:15am

re: #116 poteen

His whole Saul Alinsky/Chicago political upbringing is NOT about 'engaging' your opponents. It has been, to the dismay of Republicans, about defeating them.
Metaphorically speaking, I think, I HOPE he's waving carrots at the regime while Frank Nitti's sneaking up behind them with a Thompson.


I think your HOPE is naive. #1, there's no precedent for dealing harshly with thugs anywhere in Obama's history (nor in the Alinsky rulebook, for that matter). #2, it assumes that Obama sees the thugs in Tehran as his "opponents." To the contrary, based on his behavior and political philosophy, I think Obama sees them as his fellow Supreme Rulers whom he'd prefer to accommodate than confront.

220 MacDuff  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:40:37am

re: #210 J.S.

yes, it's probably the only bargaining chip left with the United States...and, frankly, I figure it's only a matter of time before the Obama administration adopts the European attitude...we'll probably soon see the U.S. opening up a trade relationship...

.........and at that point, the Emperor would truly have no clothes, whatsoever.

221 redshirt  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:40:46am

Fascinating.
Iran extends the middle finger, and Obama sees that as a sign of an unclenching fist.

222 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:42:42am

re: #217 haakondahl

Suit yourself. I, for one, know how to hold a grudge.

Hah, well its ok. Considering Japan is probably a lot friendlier to us now then they have ever been (especially considering the weirdly erotic threat of Li'l Kim), I don't think they're going to screw with us anytime soon. Especially since its only the die-hards such as yourself (and those who are Freepers, my google search landed me there), if they do something like that again and it becomes widely known, the backlash will be insane.

223 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:43:25am

re: #221 redshirt

Fascinating.
Iran extends the middle finger, and Obama sees that as a sign of an unclenching fist.

Obama didn't see it as the "black power" raised fist? Maybe that's why he's moving towards "solidarity" with them?

224 jamgarr  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:44:50am

Axelrod is one of those guys who automatically raise my blood pressure. Rahm is another. And Dean.

225 nyc redneck  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:44:53am

it is not possible to negotiate w/ single minded jihadi monsters.
o is going to come out looking weaker and dumber than ever.
he is going to get a good sound bitch slapping.
how much longer until this moron realizes he's not god?

226 Hengineer  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:45:36am

re: #225 nyc redneck

it is not possible to negotiate w/ single minded jihadi monsters.
o is going to come out looking weaker and dumber than ever.
he is going to get a good sound bitch slapping.
how much longer until this moron realizes he's not god?

I guess until he dies.... =-/

227 MacDuff  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:46:15am

re: #225 nyc redneck

it is not possible to negotiate w/ single minded jihadi monsters.
o is going to come out looking weaker and dumber than ever.
he is going to get a good sound bitch slapping.
how much longer until this moron realizes he's not god?

IF, and when, he's not reelected in 2012.

228 Sergeant Major  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:46:15am

I'm not sure if it's this administrations arrogance or stupidity. Why would we think for one minute that dinner jacket and that bunch of religious crazies that run that country would be any more willing to listen to what we have to say now that they have killed (murdered) dozens of people..here's another idea why don't we have a sit down with Charles Manson and see if we can get him to come around to our way of thinking....The results would surely be the same.

229 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:47:44am

re: #4 EmmmieG

Mr. Axelrod seems unaware that the Iranian government has already chosen a path. It's lined with bones.

That was my first thought. Team Obama has some logic disconnect to what's happened in the last few months.

230 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:53:34am

Sorta OT, but not really. After Shiplord Kirel noted the Honduran President's arrest, I read up on that. Now we have a new report where Team Obama, including Hillary, are denouncing the clearly legal removal of the president and 'illegal and immoral.' Good grief. I wish they were out in front of Iran just like they are with Honduras, although they are on the wrong side of right.

Zelaya, a leftist allied with Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, was arrested shortly before polls were to open in a referendum on whether to change the constitution. The Supreme Court ruled the referendum illegal and everyone from Congress to members of his own party opposed it. Critics said Zelaya wanted to remove limits to his re-election.

The Honduran SC ruled the actions of the President illegal.

President Obama said he was "deeply concerned" by Zelaya's expulsion and U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the arrest should be condemned.

"I call on all political and social actors in Honduras to respect democratic norms, the rule of law and the tenets of the Inter-American Democratic Charter," Obama's statement read.

"The action taken against Honduran President Mel Zelaya violates the precepts of the Inter-American Democratic Charter, and thus should be condemned by all," Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said in a statement Sunday.

What 'rule of law' are Team Obama talking about? b, thereby removing him from office. WTF?

231 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:54:40am

re: #228 Sergeant Major

I'm not sure if it's this administrations arrogance or stupidity.


Sadly Serg, it's both :(

232 HippieforLife  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:56:17am

The O can't stand for freedom. He is too busy standing for fiscal destruction in the US.

233 nyc redneck  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:58:59am

re: #229 BigPapa

That was my first thought. Team Obama has some logic disconnect to what's happened in the last few months.

he thinks he can transcend any evil. charm the devil.
the enemy is going to stomp this delusional fool.
kick sand in his face.
o is shameless how he keeps pretending he can make a difference.
pretending his weakness is really strength.
he is pathetic and his ignorance is going to be a major problem for world stability.

234 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:04:20pm

re: #233 nyc redneck

he thinks he can transcend any evil. charm the devil.

This is his first real job. What past accomplishment makes Øbama believe he can transcend any evil, charm the devils of Iran?

235 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:11:31pm

re: #13 EmmmieG

Could you imagine if Ronald Reagan had taken the same philosophy with Russia?

"The gulags, the secret police, the repression...that's between the Russian people and their government."

Also, exactly what are the stark consequences? If killing, beating, torturing this many of their people doesn't bring on these dreaded stark consequences, exactly what could they be? I doubt the administration has any military consequences in mind at all, so that leaves only breaking off diplomatic relations, which obviously aren't on the table.

Oh, oh I know....UN resolutions! That'll teach 'em.

Reagan offered repeatedly to sit down with Brezhnev, actually.

236 MacDuff  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:12:11pm

re: #230 BigPapa

I must confess that I'm not up on Banana Republic politics, but at first glance, it would appear that the removal of the Honduran President is strictly in accordance with the "Rule of Law" and this is democracy in action.

Of course, my opinion may be clouded by the fact that Chavez is against it, strongly indicating that the "coup" is a good thing.

As for WTF Obama and Clinton are talking about, who knows? They seem to be on the wrong side of everything......

237 pingjockey  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:12:48pm

Goddamn idiots. Going to set down and talk with bloody handed tyrants/terrorists, all the while trying to get the one democracy in the middle east to commit suicide.

238 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:12:53pm

re: #21 haakondahl

19 hours ago, Winston80 (Winston06 here) posted two reports that PersianKiwi might have been arrested. 18 hours ago, Winston80 posted that he is safe. That's the latest I have seen.

I'm going to assume that the heavely post office is organized enough to know to whom we're referring as we pray for the safety of PersianKiwi.

239 irongrampa  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:14:11pm

Just to be perfectly clear, it's NOT Obama Derangement Syndrome, it's Obama DISGUST Syndrome.


And I'm suffering a hella bad case.

240 MacDuff  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:15:21pm

re: #239 irongrampa

Just to be perfectly clear, it's NOT Obama Derangement Syndrome, it's Obama DISGUST Syndrome.


And I'm suffering a hella bad case.

I regret that I have but one upding to give to that post!

241 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:15:51pm

re: #64 brucee

Because military dictatorships are so afraid of isolation, right? I mean it unclenched North Korea, didn't it?

True, but North Korea is a sort of extreme example. Iran, despite everything, is a kind of ordinary, regular, paranoid theocracy. Iranians travel outside the country, have access to the Internet, are aware of non-Persian cultures...it's different.

242 DEZes  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:16:06pm

re: #240 MacDuff

I regret that I have but one upding to give to that post!

I'll bump it for ya. ;)

243 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:17:01pm

re: #75 jaunte

Maybe someone thinks it's not such a bad idea to rewrite constitutions based on socialist principles, including an option for longer presidential terms.

Ah, don't. I just spent eight years telling everyone that Bush would not try to stay on as President For Life. I can't keep this up much longer.

244 MacDuff  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:18:34pm

re: #242 DEZes

I'll bump it for ya. ;)

'Tis reassuring to know that ye always have me back!

245 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:19:47pm

re: #118 Killgore Trout

This'll make a lot of people happy.....
MICHELLE OBAMA BOOZE BINGES

Doesn't make ME happy. If this is real, hope she gets it under control, or gets help quick. Alcoholic behavior is not good for you or your kids. However, since it's the Nat. Enquirer, I'm not so worried.

246 pingjockey  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:22:39pm

re: #245 SanFranciscoZionist
I don't wish that on anyone. Well maybe short shit in iran, or 'ol poofy hair in Norkland.

247 nyc redneck  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:23:59pm

re: #234 unrealizedviewpoint

This is his first real job. What past accomplishment makes Øbama believe he can transcend any evil, charm the devils of Iran?

none really but his arrogance and desperation to connect to the islamists.
and because he is revered like god by his adoring fans he thinks he can succeed.
a narcissist like o sucks up the hype. look at the arrogant fool. on a pedestal like a prince and loving it. who is challenging him, really? LOL so far only the mullahs who he is sure he can reach if he just keeps impressing them w/ his openness and irresistible charismatic charms.
it is quite frankly laughable. but so chilling because he is dangerously ignorant of how life really works and what evil really is.

248 quickjustice  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:24:24pm

Neville Chamberlain: "This morning I had another talk with the German Chancellor, Herr Hitler, and here is the paper which bears his name upon it as well as mine.... We regard the agreement signed last night and the Anglo-German Naval Agreement, as symbolic of the desire of our two peoples never to go to war with one another again."
o Speech at Heston Airport, 30 September 1938, in The Times 1 Oct. 1938. Source: Oxford Book of Modern Quotes(pdf)

"Peace for our time"

o Speech at Heston Airport, 30 September, 1938. Source: 1938: 'Peace for our time' - Chamberlain part of the BBC "On this day" series

"This is the second time in our history that there has come back from Germany to Downing Street peace with honour. I believe it is peace in our time."
o "Neville Chamberlain 1937-40 Conservative"

249 kynna  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:24:43pm

re: #222 Hengineer

Hah, well its ok. Considering Japan is probably a lot friendlier to us now then they have ever been (especially considering the weirdly erotic threat of Li'l Kim), I don't think they're going to screw with us anytime soon. Especially since its only the die-hards such as yourself (and those who are Freepers, my google search landed me there), if they do something like that again and it becomes widely known, the backlash will be insane.

I'm not a freeper, and I buy Japanese all the time. But I don't buy Toshiba.

250 Zimriel  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:27:23pm

Apparently I'm a prophet:

There's another political crisis in Honduras - their President Manuel Zelaya, in the Chavez mould, is trying to take over as El Supremo. Everyone else is against it.

In this case it looks likely that the man will fail, and get booted out. Unfortunately that would be considered a coup and it's possible that Obama himself would support Zelaya's restoration.

This again shows the difference I've been harping on in these threads for some time: that there is a fundamental difference between democracy and freedom. Some societies can support both (Iceland comes to mind) but it doesn't scale. When the population and population density passes a certain point: democracy must descend into populist tyranny. This is an iron law of politics, known since the time of the Greeks and maybe even of the Sumerians. Understanding that iron law used to be the sine qua non of the university freshman curriculum.

Obama is on the side of democracy - as is Zelaya, and Chavez. Constitutional guarantees are nothing to the small-d democrat; it is all about the national consensus.

251 Zimriel  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:31:17pm

And it's been noted already in certain comments how quickly Obama responded to the Honduras coup versus how slowly he responded to the Iran coup-

252 Zimriel  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:32:28pm

What Left wing extremists?

AmericanOutlaw57

03:06 PMJun 28 2009

Bush was the worst of all evils. It is funny when we had a NAZI thinking President Bush no one said any thing about taking over the government. Now that we have an American acting President these right wing inbred morons think America should stand for such treason. Guys if Obama was 1/1000th of what you sheep say he is he would have you rounded up and shot, something I would agree with and the Constitution would up hold. Republicans are Traitors to America and should be dealt with as terrorist.

253 pingjockey  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:33:56pm

re: #252 Zimriel
Guess he didn't get the word that we had an election!

254 kansas  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:37:42pm

OT

How diabolical is Barack Obama?
Says Crap and Tax:
"Make no mistake: this is a jobs bill. We're already seeing why this is true in the clean energy investments we're making through the Recovery Act. In California, 3000 people will be employed to build a new solar plant that will create 1000 permanent jobs. In Michigan, investment in wind turbines and wind technology is expected to create over 2,600 jobs. In Florida, three new solar projects are expected to employ 1400 people."

So, to summarize, economy sheds 600,000 jobs per month but Mr. Brilliant creates what....you do the math, I can't figure out what the fuck he is talking about, but he sure never shuts up.

255 SFGoth  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:40:51pm

re: #253 pingjockey

Guess he didn't get the word that we had an election!

No kidding. Funny how you get silence when you tell Libs that Bush obviously didn't usurp the Constitution because he's no longer president.

256 DEZes  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:40:58pm

re: #244 MacDuff

'Tis reassuring to know that ye always have me back!

Any time. ;)

257 SFGoth  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:41:31pm

Obama really, really wants to bring back a piece of paper from Tehran.

258 pingjockey  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:43:52pm

re: #257 SFGoth
It'll be what Chamberlins was worth...useful for shit paper.

259 Zimriel  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:46:16pm

re: #253 pingjockey

Guess he didn't get the word that we had an election!

Oh, he likes elections - they give him a ballpark on what percentage of the country he hates. If he was asked, I think he'd agree that we should reform our election process to a card-check system of non-secret ballots. That seems to be the best way to tally up who gets "rounded up" (by his own words).

260 SFGoth  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:48:10pm

And you know what, Dinnerjacket will get another dig in when he hands it to the O and tells him, it's not recycled paper.

261 pingjockey  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:51:07pm

going up thread

262 dhg4  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:52:04pm

re: #2 buzzsawmonkey

They want a nuclear Iran. They really, really want it. Because they think they can manipulate a nuclear Iran as the stick to force Israel to agree to giving up the West Bank and Jerusalem.

They are deranged fools.

My only disagreement with you is that they're not deranged fools, but committed ideologues.

263 kansas  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:53:54pm

re: #157 Walter L. Newton

Because according to him, this article should make "everyone happy" which is his snide way of saying all Lizards.

So, I hope all Lizards are happy now.

First, I don't believe, second if I did I don't give a shit.

264 Pigtown Water Dog  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 1:00:17pm

re: #180 poteen

Now, that made me giggle.

265 MacDuff  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 1:06:51pm

re: #250 Zimriel

Apparently I'm a prophet:


This again shows the difference I've been harping on in these threads for some time: that there is a fundamental difference between democracy and freedom. Some societies can support both (Iceland comes to mind) but it doesn't scale. When the population and population density passes a certain point: democracy must descend into populist tyranny. This is an iron law of politics, known since the time of the Greeks and maybe even of the Sumerians. Understanding that iron law used to be the sine qua non of the university freshman curriculum.

Obama is on the side of democracy - as is Zelaya, and Chavez. Constitutional guarantees are nothing to the small-d democrat; it is all about the national consensus.

Some agreement, with reservations on my part. I think when Americans use the word "democracy" we're thinking of the constitutional representative/republican type of democracy with which we are familiar. Democracy, in it's purest form can be little more than a raging mob; the representative/republican form has inherent safeguards to protect us against mob rule, as does our constitution.

It appears that Zalaya ran afoul of their constitution and the Supreme Court initiated his removal and the military followed suit.

Constitutional guarantees and representation are integral to what we call "democracy", for without those precepts, "the tyranny of the majority" ensues (a la Chavez).

The Honduran Supreme Court seems to have (rightly) sided with their constitution.

As for President Obama's commitment to democracy, as described above, I remain unconvinced. His reluctance to even speak the word gives me pause. The fact that he spoke of the "rule of law" when speaking of about Zalaya (who had wanted to overturn the law that prohibited him from seeking another term in office), then adding the quote below, makes me question his understanding as well as his commitment to the the "rule of law", as well as constitutional democracy:

"I am deeply concerned by reports coming out of Honduras regarding the detention and expulsion of President Mel Zelaya," Obama said in a written statement.

If Zelaya ran afoul of the "rule of law" as well as the constitution, and the Supreme Court stood for the law and the constitution in initiating his ouster, this seems to be a very good thing and should not be a reason for POTUS to be "deeply concerned".

Am I missing something?

266 MarineMomSue  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 1:26:00pm

re: #254 kansas

'float like a butterfly, sting like a bee', comes to mind

267 MacDuff  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 1:26:47pm

re: #157 Walter L. Newton

Because according to him, this article should make "everyone happy" which is his snide way of saying all Lizards.

So, I hope all Lizards are happy now.

Well, I can only speak for myself, but Michelle Obama's drinking habits are not on my list of priorities.

I have more pressing issues on my mind - much of the world is on the brink of chaos and we're alienating our friends and coddling our enemies, the economy is in shambles, people have lost their life savings, some of the largest corporations in the country are being gobbled up by the government and this year's deficit, alone, has been consevatively placed at $1.85 trillion with no real plan as to how to pay it back. Barack Obama is the President, Nancy Pelosi is Speaker of the House and Harry reid is Senate Majority Leader.....pardon me of I don't have time for Michelle.

Of course, I don't read "People" or "US" and I don't watch "American Idol" or any other of the "Celebrity Circuses" or "reality" programming that seems to be the common fare.

I'm a Pop Culture Apostate and proudly proclaim "I DON'T GIVE A SHIT". Let Michelle handle her own problems and allow me to handle mine.

268 MarineMomSue  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 1:27:38pm

re: #257 SFGoth

Obama really, really wants to bring back a piece of paper from Tehran.

too bad that it will be written in blood

269 winston06  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 1:58:58pm

As an Iranian, all I can say is that the current US president is more like Khamenei and Mao than a US president. He's a disgrace and a shameful person

270 AreaMan  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 4:23:58pm

Just for grins, consider that if Obama was slowly bringing up the carriers, troops and air power for a decisive move, this sort of bloviation would be great cover for that.

Think about this.

You felt better for just a few seconds, didn't you?

271 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 5:09:39pm

re: #270 AreaMan

Just for grins, consider that if Obama was slowly bringing up the carriers, troops and air power for a decisive move, this sort of bloviation would be great cover for that.

Think about this.

You felt better for just a few seconds, didn't you?

Somewhere, a unicorn is farting a rainbow.
/

272 kayfromcarroll  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 6:39:14pm

re: #144 itellu3times

I have just two words: Ladybird Johnson. Oops, no, I mean Betty Ford.

/sober as I ever am

Mamie Eisenhower was known to stumble around a little bit after they retired to Gettysburg.

/some alcoholic-sobriety lore

273 [deleted]  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 8:26:54pm
274 DCMacHead  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 9:43:21pm

re: #6 Sharmuta

The last time we made nicey-nice with an Iranian dictator that stomped on dissenters, it didn't work out too well. Talking to this regime would be repeating that mistake, only the stakes are much higher.

275 zelnaga  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:27:55pm

The six-party talks with North Korea began in response to their withdraw from the nuclear non-proliferation treaty in 2003. To my knowledge, these talks didn't have any preconditions attached to them and just as I don't see anything wrong with those talks I don't see anything wrong with entering into these talks. Indeed, I think more legitimate concern is what'll happen at these talks.

Will Obama make unreasonable concessions? How will we be evaluating Iran's compliance and what will the consequences of non-compliance be? There were weapons inspectors in Iraq and shortly after they were kicked out we invaded. Will Obama have the guts to invade if Iran defies any prospective agreement that might be made? Honestly, I doubt it - he gave Chrysler to the very people who made it bankrupt - the UAW - and if Iran said they'd stop developing nuclear weapons if we withdrew all our overseas troops, he'd probably believe them. But I'll condemn Obama then - for now, I think it's potentially premature.

276 StudSupreme  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:33:54pm

Oh.

My.

God.

The White House is ruled by Fools.

277 Flavia  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 10:56:04pm

re: #42 solomonpanting

I wonder what will come first before Iran has a fully functioning bomb; the overthrow of the regime from within or a series of Israeli airstrikes.

The Israeli airstrikes. A friend of mine in the intelligence ocmmunity is still rather confident that the whole "spat" with Israel is for "plausible deniability." I only hope he's right. But, even if he is wrong, the Israelis are not as stupid as Obama is making himself look. They will go in no matter what we do (& they will have help - no one will speak up, but the last maneuvers they did required a refuelling station in between, somewhere....).

278 Render  Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:17:26pm

WTH does Axelrod know about "stark consequences?"

[Link: render64.wordpress.com...]

...And why is he the one making such comments? Don't we pay other people quite a bit to do that very job?

GTFO,
R

279 Land Shark  Mon, Jun 29, 2009 7:27:19am

I think it's always important to remember that Barrack Obama is an ideological creature first and foremost. His ideology trumps all, regardless. I believe he's not going to "learn" from what's going on because he will reject or ignore anything that contradicts his belief system. With his big, narcissistic ego and his adoring minions feeding it, I'm convinced he will reject what doesn't fit his pre-conceived notions and march on towards whatever goal he previously set.

Oh, how I'd love to be wrong...


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