New Gallup Poll: More Americans See Democratic Party As ‘Too Liberal’

US News • Views: 5,244

A new Gallup poll has some interesting results; this year the number of Americans who described the Democratic Party’s views as “too liberal” increased to a historic high mark (46%), putting it slightly ahead of the number who say the Republican Party is “too conservative” (43%).

However, it’s not great news for the Republicans, because the number who say the GOP is “too conservative” has remained unchanged from its own historic high mark last year.

It looks like a lot of Americans are disenchanted with both parties for being too extreme.

Here’s a Gallup video on the poll with more details on the results.

FLV Video

Jump to bottom

554 comments
1 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:01:25pm

I wonder what the poll numbers would look like for people who are fed up with this shit.

2 rwmofo  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:01:55pm

Gimme a new face then!

3 solomonpanting  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:01:59pm
It looks like a lot of Americans are disenchanted with both parties for being too extreme.

Perhaps, but Democrat Party extremism is much more dangerous than that of Republicans.

4 Gearhead  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:03:44pm
...Democratic Party..."too liberal”...Republican Party... “too conservative”...

Ron Paul - just right

/Goldilocks

5 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:03:48pm

The Dems didn't learn from the 90s- Americans don't want socialist healthcare!

6 Eowyn2  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:04:22pm

re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I wonder what the poll numbers would look like for people who are fed up with this shit.

80% fed up
15% not fed up
5% undecided(?)

7 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:06:08pm

It's a poll. There are many like it. But this poll is mine. Ah sorry just had a flash back

8 Randall Gross  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:06:54pm

Very interesting results. The 7 percent who think the Republicans are "too liberal" are totally out of touch with America, and they are the ones nihilistically driving wedges to tear the party to splinter constituencies.

9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:07:20pm

Shit.

Mandy? Here's your cue.

10 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:07:29pm

This represents huge opportunity for a sane centrist, but I believe such a creature does not exist.

11 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:08:07pm

Note from the video that the previous "Too Liberal" high of 45 percent was in 1994. What happened in 1994?

12 KingKenrod  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:08:14pm

I saw the poll earlier and the noteworthy thing to me was the GOP number for "just right" has plummeted while the "too liberal" and "too conservative" numbers grew. I think this is just normal finger-pointing that goes along with losing political power.

The same round of finger-pointing happened in 1992, and the GOP was able to find a "back to basics" platform of fiscal responsibility. I wonder if they have the leadership to do it again?

13 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:08:41pm

re: #5 Sharmuta

The Dems didn't learn from the 90s- Americans don't want socialist healthcare!

Nope, they'll try it again, and again, it will be their downfall as it was in 1994. I suspect, if the Republicans can get their shit together, that 2010 will look a lot like 1994.

14 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:08:46pm

re: #5 Sharmuta

The Dems didn't learn from the 90s- Americans don't want socialist healthcare!

I'm not all that sure this is the reason. I seem to run into a lot of people who are so fed up with whatever their present medical insurance situation is + their unwarranted sense of entitlement that they are totally on board the Kool-aid express, destination CommieCare.

15 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:08:50pm

re: #9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Shit.

Mandy? Here's your cue.

I don't think Mandy wants any shit from you, cue or no.
////

16 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:09:20pm

re: #8 Thanos

Very interesting results. The 7 percent who think the Republicans are "too liberal" are totally out of touch with America, and they are the ones nihilistically driving wedges to tear the party to splinter constituencies.

The Ron Paul percentage?

17 albusteve  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:09:22pm

gimme my pot and pass the ammo...

18 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:09:23pm

re: #10 doppelganglander

This represents huge opportunity for a sane centrist, but I believe such a creature does not exist.

Romney?

19 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:09:58pm

re: #15 CyanSnowHawk

You think I'm giving

Mandy

shit? How crazy do I look? (Don't answer that!)

20 Russkilitlover  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:10:03pm

re: #5 Sharmuta

The Dems didn't learn from the 90s- Americans don't want socialist healthcare!

You mean we'll have a choice?

21 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:10:07pm

re: #11 Son of the Black Dog

Note from the video that the previous "Too Liberal" high of 45 percent was in 1994. What happened in 1994?

Hmm, Contract with America? Also, I got Internet for the first time, but I don't suppose that's what you meant.

22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:10:19pm

re: #19 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Huh. What the hell happened there?

23 VegasRick  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:10:24pm

re: #17 albusteve

gimme my pot and pass the ammo...

"You should not smoke dope and shoot"
*PSA

24 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:10:24pm

re: #14 ArchangelMichael

I'm not all that sure this is the reason. I seem to run into a lot of people who are so fed up with whatever their present medical insurance situation is + their unwarranted sense of entitlement that they are totally on board the Kool-aid express, destination CommieCare.

Gee I've never been happier with my health care and if Obama fucks it up I'll be real pissed

25 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:10:45pm

re: #18 reine.de.tout

Romney?

Goodness, I hope so. He is that rare thing -- a politician who increases in my esteem the more I see of him.

26 VegasRick  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:10:48pm

re: #18 reine.de.tout

Romney?

Yes.

27 Kronocide  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:10:58pm

Many of us fault Islam for not putting their extremists in check. Shall we expect the same of our own political parties?

"The GOP is for X and Y, and always has been, it's not about that crazy Z."

"But the Z stuff is being pushed by GOPers."

"Uh... well...."

28 sngnsgt  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:11:03pm

The last poll I took of myself, I found the Deomcrat party to be too liberal. /

29 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:11:18pm

re: #22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Huh. What the hell happened there?

You broke it. I'm telling.

30 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:11:35pm

re: #24 Nevergiveup

Gee I've never been happier with my health care and if Obama fucks it up I'll be real pissed

Me too. I hear a sob story from an adult child who thinks the world owes them everything everyday though.

31 KingKenrod  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:11:44pm

Here are graphs and text from the poll:

[Link: www.gallup.com...]

32 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:12:01pm

re: #24 Nevergiveup

Gee I've never been happier with my health care and if Obama fucks it up I'll be real pissed

He might be getting a bit to open with his plans.

33 Randall Gross  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:12:11pm

re: #16 Honorary Yooper

The Ron Paul percentage?

That's part of the crowd, remember that he only pulled three percent in the primaries however. There are a lot of "single issue" people in that mix as well with the Ronulans is my take.

34 Sumo  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:12:14pm

re: #10 doppelganglander

This represents huge opportunity for a sane centrist, but I believe such a creature does not exist.


Then why isn't McCain president?

35 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:12:41pm

re: #11 Son of the Black Dog

Note from the video that the previous "Too Liberal" high of 45 percent was in 1994. What happened in 1994?

Maybe it had something to do with the health care thing which was introduced in '93 and dead by '94.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

36 albusteve  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:12:44pm

re: #23 VegasRick

"You should not smoke dope and shoot"
*PSA

and a slug of Southern Comfort before I go out and blow up some commie watermellons

37 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:12:48pm

re: #8 Thanos

Very interesting results. The 7 percent who think the Republicans are "too liberal" are totally out of touch with America, and they are the ones nihilistically driving wedges to tear the party to splinter constituencies.

And of course that's actually 17%.

38 mikalm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:12:58pm

re: #23 VegasRick

"You should not smoke dope and shoot"
*PSA

Oh yeah?

39 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:13:08pm

based on this type of information, it makes me believe even more strongly that if John McCain had picked Mitt Romney as his running mate in '08, he'd likely be POTUS today.

screw the mike huckabees of the world ... people like him hurt this country horribly.

40 irongrampa  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:13:12pm

I'll take Sarah.

Rest of them can sit back and watch.

41 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:13:12pm

re: #22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Huh. What the hell happened there?

Did you get some weird formatting? There's been some odd things going on in the posts the last week or so. I thought Charles worked out the problem yesterday.

42 VegasRick  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:13:20pm

re: #34 Sumo

Then why isn't McCain president?

THAT, RIGHT THERE IS Mandy's Cue!

43 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:14:01pm

re: #22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Huh. What the hell happened there?

You probably hit "quote" instead of "italic".
I do it often.

44 Randall Gross  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:14:04pm

re: #37 wrenchwench

And of course that's actually 17%.

Yep, typo, thx

45 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:14:15pm

re: #34 Sumo

Then why isn't McCain president?

I said sane.

46 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:15:36pm

re: #34 Sumo

Then why isn't McCain president?

too old.
lacked energy.
not enough charisma to overcome Obama.
Lot of people did not like Palin (I'm not one of those).
the country was ready for some sort of change, and did not see it in McCain.

47 callahan23  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:16:13pm

re: #45 doppelganglander

I said sanme.

FTFY
;-)

48 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:16:27pm

re: #34 Sumo

Then why isn't McCain president?

He looked like my great grandfather.

49 callahan23  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:17:15pm

re: #48 Nevergiveup

He looked like my great grandfather.

Wow´, is he still alive 'n well?

50 Adrenalyn  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:17:24pm

I disagree that many Americans "really" think republicans are too conservative.

I think that is made-up by the media and thru the power of suggestion and manipulated polls (leading questions) it becomes a "statistic".


Also, LGF is loading slow
no wonder there are so few comments today.....

51 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:18:05pm

re: #49 callahan23

Wow´, is he still alive 'n well?

No, and there were times i wasn't sure McCain was either

52 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:18:44pm

re: #48 Nevergiveup

He looked like my great grandfather.

And campaigned with the energy of my grandfather that passed away in '79.

53 MJ  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:19:41pm

When liberals raise children:

Keeping the Gender of a 2-Year-Old Secret
By LISA BELKIN


During last week’s discussion of whether couples choose to learn the sex of their baby before he or she is born, a number of you said you wanted to keep the secret as long as possible, because the moment people hear “boy” or “girl” they begin to make assumptions about a child.

One couple in Sweden decided to take that logic a few steps further, and are refusing to tell anyone whether their toddler is a boy or a girl.

The child — called Pop in Swedish papers to protect his or her identity — is now two-and-a-half-years-old, and only a handful of close relatives (those who have changed the child’s diaper) know the sex. Pop’s parents, who are both 24, say they made this decision in the hope of freeing their child from the artificial construct of gender.

“We want Pop to grow up more freely and avoid being forced into a specific gender mould from the outset,” Pop’s mother told the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet last spring. “It’s cruel to bring a child into the world with a blue or pink stamp on their forehead....”

[Link: parenting.blogs.nytimes.com...]

Nice. Raise your child as if he/she were a social experiment.

54 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:19:59pm

re: #52 CyanSnowHawk

And campaigned with the energy of my grandfather that passed away in '79.

And half the time he sounded like Obama's campaign manager.

55 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:20:23pm

Breaking news on WSJ.

Lear files for Chapter 11, the eighth major car-parts supplier to seek bankruptcy protection since 2005.

56 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:21:22pm

re: #53 MJ
Please tell me that's from The Onion.

57 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:21:46pm

re: #53 MJ

When liberals raise children:

Keeping the Gender of a 2-Year-Old Secret
By LISA BELKIN

[Link: parenting.blogs.nytimes.com...]

Nice. Raise your child as if he/she were a social experiment.

Good grief.

Pop’s mother told the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet last spring. “It’s cruel to bring a child into the world with a blue or pink stamp on their forehead.

And how cruel is it to raise a child to reject and hide who and what he really is?

58 pink freud  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:22:11pm

re: #53 MJ

The "construct" is gender identity, not gender. This article makes me see red.

59 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:22:23pm

re: #57 reine.de.tout

And how cruel is it to raise a child to reject and hide who and what he really is?

Or she you racist bastard?
/

60 albusteve  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:22:24pm

it's 98 deg on my patio...at 5kft that's toasty...my Panatellas light themselves!

61 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:23:17pm

re: #53 MJ

Pop’s parents, who are both 24, say they made this decision in the hope of freeing their child from the artificial construct of gender.

Artificial construct?

Well, I suppose if you have an artificial construct of reality that might make sense.

62 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:24:04pm

re: #59 Nevergiveup

Or she you racist bastard?
/

Hm.
"she" and "he" are racists?

And btw - I'm a she. Not hiding it. The "reine" in my nic is supposed to be a clue.

63 mikalm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:24:23pm

re: #53 MJ

Gender = fluid social construct
Homosexuality = innate genetic hard-wiring

64 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:24:33pm

re: #53 MJ

When liberals raise children:

Keeping the Gender of a 2-Year-Old Secret
By LISA BELKIN

[Link: parenting.blogs.nytimes.com...]

Nice. Raise your child as if he/she were a social experiment.

The article quotes one of the parents: “It’s cruel to bring a child into the world with a blue or pink stamp on their forehead....”

It's cruel to confuse a child about something as fundamental as its sexuality. This poor thing will be in therapy for years, but if it's a Swedish therapist, I doubt it will do any good.

65 MJ  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:24:34pm

re: #56 Mad Al-Jaffee

Please tell me that's from The Onion.

What's even as bad is the number of letter writers to the NYT who think this is an "interesting idea". Somewhere the idea that this is really a child doesn't dawn on them.

66 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:24:36pm

re: #62 reine.de.tout

Hm.
"she" and "he" are racists?

And btw - I'm a she. Not hiding it. The "reine" in my nic is supposed to be a clue.

I know I know

67 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:24:49pm

re: #46 reine.de.tout

too old.
lacked energy.
not enough charisma to overcome Obama.
Lot of people did not like Palin (I'm not one of those).
the country was ready for some sort of change, and did not see it in McCain.

He did remarkably well, given all of that. Despite running a lackluster, disorganized campaign, being outspent many times over and suffering from disenchantment over Bush in particular and Republicans in general, he only lost by 46% to 53%, a 7 point spread.

68 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:24:57pm

re: #14 ArchangelMichael

I'm not all that sure this is the reason. I seem to run into a lot of people who are so fed up with whatever their present medical insurance situation is + their unwarranted sense of entitlement that they are totally on board the Kool-aid express, destination CommieCare.

People are also scared. Keeping health care is a huge struggle for a lot of people.

69 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:25:01pm

re: #59 Nevergiveup

Or she you racist bastard?
/

Slow down there Nevergiveup, your mixing your *isms.

70 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:25:04pm

re: #61 CyanSnowHawk

Reg: What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies, when he can't have babies?
Francis: It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.
Reg: It's symbolic of his struggle against reality.

-Life of Brian

71 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:25:09pm

re: #66 Nevergiveup

I know I know

yes, I knew you knew.
And I also know you know.
I should have put a /

72 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:25:18pm

Why didn't they just ask us?

73 albusteve  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:26:00pm

re: #62 reine.de.tout

Hm.
"she" and "he" are racists?

And btw - I'm a she. Not hiding it. The "reine" in my nic is supposed to be a clue.

the reine in speine falls meinely on the pleine

74 pink freud  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:26:10pm

re: #65 MJ

What's even as bad is the number of letter writers to the NYT who think this is an "interesting idea". Somewhere the idea that this is really a child doesn't dawn on them.

Where have I heard this before?

75 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:26:11pm

re: #69 CyanSnowHawk

Slow down there Nevergiveup, your mixing your *isms.

Nah I usually take my isms straight up like my drinks

76 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:26:23pm

re: #67 SixDegrees

He did remarkably well, given all of that. Despite running a lackluster, disorganized campaign, being outspent many times over and suffering from disenchantment over Bush in particular and Republicans in general, he only lost by 46% to 53%, a 7 point spread.

Well - he did OK. It seems to me presidential races are mostly won on very small margins, and the 7% was larger than normal.

77 kynna  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:26:32pm

Didn't Avanti link to this poll earlier?

I doubt this information will have any impact on the powers that be. Right now they have quite the playground to mess around in.

Thank goodness Al Franken will bring some sobriety and intellect to the proceedings.

///// really necessary?

78 mikalm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:26:41pm

re: #65 MJ

What's even as bad is the number of letter writers to the NYT who think this is an "interesting idea". Somewhere the idea that this is really a child doesn't dawn on them.

For a lot of people, especially the NYT's remaining readers, everything is a geeky intellectual abstraction with no real-world consequences.

79 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:26:57pm

re: #53 MJ

When liberals raise children:

Keeping the Gender of a 2-Year-Old Secret
By LISA BELKIN


[Link: parenting.blogs.nytimes.com...]

Nice. Raise your child as if he/she were a social experiment.

Well, that will last until the kid goes to school.

80 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:27:06pm

re: #73 albusteve

the reine in speine falls meinely on the pleine

good one!

81 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:27:33pm

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, that will last until the kid goes to school.

Home Schooling?

82 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:27:34pm

re: #70 Mad Al-Jaffee

Reg: What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies, when he can't have babies?
Francis: It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.
Reg: It's symbolic of his struggle against reality.

-Life of Brian

One of my favorites, and that is where I sourced the reality comment.

83 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:27:54pm

re: #73 albusteve

the reine in speine falls meinely on the pleine

I think it's pronounced more like "ren." So, the reine has a heine in a peine.

84 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:28:11pm

So, you're damned if you are and you're damned if you aint.

You can be a left wing liberal democrat and an evolutionist or

you can be a right wing republican conservative and a creationist.

The answer? Sit on the fence in the middle. As the old saying goes, "if you stand for nothing you will fall for anything."

85 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:28:19pm

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, that will last until the kid goes to school.

I suspect those parents will manage to find a "progressive" sort of school that would go along with this, no problem. Yeesh. can you imagine?

re: #81 Nevergiveup

Home Schooling?

Or home-schooling.

86 pink freud  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:28:47pm

re: #83 doppelganglander

I think it's pronounced more like "ren." So, the reine has a heine in a peine.

Ree nee

87 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:28:56pm

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, that will last until the kid goes to school.

Or hears that you can pee standing up ...

88 mikalm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:29:03pm

re: #82 CyanSnowHawk

One of my favorites, and that is where I sourced the reality comment.

Funny how what was absurd, surrealist satire thirty years ago is now coming true in the Real World....

89 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:29:10pm

re: #83 doppelganglander

I think it's pronounced more like "ren." So, the reine has a heine in a peine.

I hope ya'll are having a grand time throwing me onto the pleine and having me in a peine with heines.

90 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:29:25pm

re: #86 pink freud

Ree nee

Nope. JUST YOU.
It's pronounced like "wren".

91 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:29:26pm

re: #86 pink freud

Ree nee

Where did you learn French?

92 albusteve  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:29:41pm

re: #83 doppelganglander

I think it's pronounced more like "ren." So, the reine has a heine in a peine.

I am the king of my own alphabet....and I have spokeine

93 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:29:51pm

re: #53 MJ

say they made this decision in the hope of freeing their child from the artificial construct of gender

WTF?

94 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:29:55pm

re: #81 Nevergiveup

Home Schooling?

My mother, a staunch liberal, likes to say that some people are so open minded that their brains fall out.

95 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:30:09pm

re: #87 OldLineTexan

Or hears that you can pee standing up ...

And that is the great dividing line

96 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:30:33pm

re: #68 SanFranciscoZionist

People are also scared. Keeping health care is a huge struggle for a lot of people.

Right now, the potential options for my healthcare are:

1) Keep my currently offered company benefits, but since my company will be offered a tax incentive to drop them, they're going buh-bye and I'll be stuck with the government plan.

2) keep my company benefits if my company decides to keep them, then I get the privilege of being taxed for my benefits package.

3) take the cash and shop around for other health insurance and pay thru the nose because they'll be getting screwed by the government system.

97 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:30:33pm

re: #91 doppelganglander

Where did you learn French?

I learned it watching The Addams Family!

/

98 pink freud  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:30:43pm

re: #90 reine.de.tout

Well I know that but I choose to live in a world of illusion that is of my own making thankyewverymuch. OK?

:D

99 MJ  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:30:54pm

re: #53 MJ

When liberals raise children:

Keeping the Gender of a 2-Year-Old Secret
By LISA BELKIN

[Link: parenting.blogs.nytimes.com...]

Nice. Raise your child as if he/she were a social experiment.

This story reminds me of Sci-Fi movie I saw once or maybe it was a Twilight Zone episode where the parents raise a kid without ever talking to him. It was social experiment to raise a superior telepathic ability or something similar.

100 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:30:56pm

re: #95 Nevergiveup

And that is the great dividing line

For many, but not all.

I knew this girl in college ...

101 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:31:05pm

re: #96 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Right now, the potential options for my healthcare are:

1) Keep my currently offered company benefits, but since my company will be offered a tax incentive to drop them, they're going buh-bye and I'll be stuck with the government plan.

2) keep my company benefits if my company decides to keep them, then I get the privilege of being taxed for my benefits package.

3) take the cash and shop around for other health insurance and pay thru the nose because they'll be getting screwed by the government system.

Or go bare back?

102 kansas  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:31:44pm

re: #3 solomonpanting

Perhaps, but Democrat Party extremism is much more dangerous than that of Republicans.

Certainly more expensive.

103 pink freud  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:31:48pm

re: #91 doppelganglander

At my grammaw's knee, grasshopper. LOL

She just looks like a reenee to me!

104 Danny  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:31:49pm

I'm too conservative for my wife.

105 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:32:00pm

re: #98 pink freud

Well I know that but I choose to live in a world of illusion that is of my own making thankyewverymuch. OK?

:D

heh-heh.
I LIKE ree-nee.

106 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:32:09pm

re: #89 reine.de.tout

I hope ya'll are having a grand time throwing me onto the pleine and having me in a peine with heines.

I feele lieke I am in the Middle Ages ....

107 callahan23  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:32:12pm

re: #100 OldLineTexan

For many, but not all.

I knew this girl in college ...

... go on!

108 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:32:17pm

re: #100 OldLineTexan

For many, but not all.

I knew this girl in college ...


.........and?

109 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:32:38pm

re: #104 Danny

I'm too conservative for my wife.

... and too sexy for your shirt?

/

110 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:32:38pm

re: #107 callahan23

... go on!


5 seconds!

111 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:33:09pm

re: #53 MJ

When liberals raise children:

Keeping the Gender of a 2-Year-Old Secret
By LISA BELKIN


[Link: parenting.blogs.nytimes.com...]

Nice. Raise your child as if he/she were a social experiment.

And crap like this is why certain grow up getting their asses kicked. This kid will end up being a total pussy.

112 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:33:15pm

re: #61 CyanSnowHawk

Artificial construct?

Truly a "WTF?" moment. What are they doing to infants over there in Sweden that their gender is an artificial construct?

My junk is an all natural construct, same as the day I was born.

/Wait. I mean, it's bigger now, but.. Aw hell!

113 Danny  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:33:17pm

re: #109 OldLineTexan

... and too sexy for your shirt?

/

Fortunately, yes.

114 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:33:33pm

re: #5 Sharmuta

The Dems didn't learn from the 90s- Americans don't want socialist healthcare!

HillaryCare 2.0 is way too bloated and still full of bugs.

115 albusteve  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:33:35pm

re: #111 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And crap like this is why certain grow up getting their asses kicked. This kid will end up being a total pussy.

maybe even POTUS!

116 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:34:05pm

re: #91 doppelganglander

Where did you learn French?

you know, Pinkie and I have met, had lunch a few times, talk on the phone (rarely, I'm not much of a phone person), and she always calls me "ree nee".
Instead of my real name.
I get a kick out of it.

117 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:34:08pm

re: #111 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And crap like this is why certain grow up getting their asses kicked. This kid will end up being a total pussy.

Either that or murdering his parents.

118 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:34:12pm

re: #104 Danny

I'm too conservative for my wife.

Buy yourself some chaps and live a little.

119 kansas  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:34:14pm

re: #4 Gearhead

Ron Paul - just right of too conservative.
FIFY

/Goldilocks

120 pink freud  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:34:24pm

re: #113 Danny

Fortunately, yes.

And modest, too! ;-)

121 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:34:38pm
122 callahan23  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:34:45pm

re: #104 Danny

I'm too conservative for my wife.

Same here. We are splitting amicably not least because of our differing views.

123 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:34:52pm

re: #111 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And crap like this is why certain grow up getting their asses kicked. This kid will end up being a total pussy.

Or SHE could grow up to be a total dike and a bully?

124 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:35:09pm

re: #117 Ward Cleaver

Either that or murdering his parents.

Murder is an artificial societal construct.

125 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:35:12pm

re: #111 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And crap like this is why certain grow up getting their asses kicked. This kid will end up being a total pussy.

Interesting. You're assuming it's male, aren't you?

I'm not sure you can blame 'crap like this' for much though--how many children have ever been raised like this? Not that I'm looking to raise the number.

126 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:35:16pm

re: #88 mikalm

Funny how what was absurd, surrealist satire thirty years ago is now coming true in the Real World....

I'll believe that when I can buy wolf nipple chips from the vending machine down the hall.

Although the cult of Obama does look an awful lot like the followers of Brian.

Follow the Change,
follow the unicorn,
make the sign of the 'O',
you must not say Hussein,
no, you must persecute the plumber,
and on and on into their little factions.

127 pink freud  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:35:16pm

re: #116 reine.de.tout

you know, Pinkie and I have met, had lunch a few times, talk on the phone (rarely, I'm not much of a phone person), and she always calls me "ree nee".
Instead of my real name.
I get a kick out of it.

...and *she* is too sexy for her shirt.

128 Danny  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:35:32pm

re: #122 callahan23

Same here. We are splitting amicably not least because of our differing views.

Oh, well, that's too bad. Wifey and I are inseparable. Oddly enough.

129 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:35:35pm

re: #111 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And crap like this is why certain grow up getting their asses kicked. This kid will end up being a total pussy.

Lots of kooky komments there.

130 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:35:42pm

re: #106 OldLineTexan

I feele lieke I am in the Middle Ages ....

The professor who taught my History of the English Language class was a specialist in Chaucer. She read a section out loud to us in the original - I don't think I would have understood it if I wasn't following along in the text. Reading it, OTOH, I understood it pretty well, aside from some words that have disappeared completely.

131 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:36:10pm

re: #76 reine.de.tout

Well - he did OK. It seems to me presidential races are mostly won on very small margins, and the 7% was larger than normal.

It varies quite a bit, but 7% is on the small side as far as popular vote margins go. It's certainly within the realm of swinging over the other way had things been done only a little differently.

Rather astonishingly, Carter beat Ford by only 2%, while Nixon trounced McGovern to win his second term by 23%.

132 jvic  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:36:14pm

re: #34 Sumo

Then why isn't McCain president?

He very well might have become President if he'd maintained his composure when the markets collapsed. The Palin pick helped him and his people got the right tone of antiObama mockery that stopped short of nastiness. McCain had taken a slight lead and then: suspend the campaign, unsuspend it, lie to Letterman, cancel the debate, uncancel it...

Bonkers.
******************
I wonder if the qualities that are supposedly "too conservative" about the Republicans are, in fact, not conservative at all.

The Democrats and MSM should thank the looney right for their help. Heck, they should donate.

133 kansas  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:36:47pm

re: #27 BigPapa

Many of us fault Islam for not putting their extremists in check. Shall we expect the same of our own political parties?
"


Yeah, when our extremists start lopping off heads and wearing explosive vests to pizza parlors and flying airliners into buildings.

134 Danny  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:37:02pm

re: #118 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Buy yourself some chaps and live a little.

No self respectin conservative wears chaps! So I bought her some.

135 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:37:04pm

re: #116 reine.de.tout

you know, Pinkie and I have met, had lunch a few times, talk on the phone (rarely, I'm not much of a phone person), and she always calls me "ree nee".
Instead of my real name.
I get a kick out of it.

That's funny. I think of you half the time by your real name and half the time as reine. Sometimes nicknames just stick.

136 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:37:11pm

re: #123 Nevergiveup

Or SHE could grow up to be a total dike and a bully?

I think, really, it will just be confused about what bathroom to use.

137 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:37:12pm

re: #107 callahan23

re: #108 A Kiwi Infidel

This was at a "tower party" (pronounced "keg-ger", ask Jim in Virginia).

A friend of mine named Dianne made the bet that she could accomplish the males-only act of urinating in a cup IN FRONT OF HER while standing AND not wet herself at all. NB: Diane often played "quarters" with football players and beat the daylights consciousness out of them. She had attended an all-girls Catholic high school. Silly football players.

She went out into the commons and proved that she could indeed do it to a moderate audience. I have to say, she was also accurate, and accuracy counts.

I have never met another woman like her.

138 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:37:30pm
139 callahan23  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:37:36pm

re: #128 Danny

Oh, well, that's too bad. Wifey and I are inseparable. Oddly enough.

Good on you both and good fortune for you.

140 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:37:46pm

re: #121 buzzsawmonkey

Michael Powell and Emeric Pressburger did a famous film about that; Peeping Tom.

Hmmm...

Mark becomes a compulsive murderer who kills women and records their contorted features and dying gasps on film. His ongoing project is a documentary on fear.

A "compulsive murderer"? Now there's a descriptive term.

141 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:37:51pm

re: #136 SanFranciscoZionist

I think, really, it will just be confused about what bathroom to use.

Kinda like being in a foreign country and drunk

142 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:37:51pm

re: #122 callahan23

Same here. We are splitting amicably not least because of our differing views.

I'm sorry to hear that. Even amicable splits are difficult.

143 NukeAtomrod  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:38:10pm

So... what is too conservative anyway? An open-borders, isolationist, anarchist?

Did I just describe Ron Paul!

144 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:38:50pm

re: #125 SanFranciscoZionist

Interesting. You're assuming it's male, aren't you?

I'm not sure you can blame 'crap like this' for much though--how many children have ever been raised like this? Not that I'm looking to raise the number.

Nope. I believe that a woman is totally capable of being a pussy and getting her ass kicked for being a snivelling wretch as easily as any man. I've known too many people who have been raised in "judgement free, no violence, free thinking families" and have ended up spineless self righteous idiots to think this kid will turn out any better.

145 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:39:00pm

re: #87 OldLineTexan

Or hears that you can pee standing up ...

Heh. My mom tells me that when I was a wee lad (see what I did there), I had to pee and there was no bathroom around. She told me it was okay for little boys to pee outdoors, a statement she soon regretted.

I became an unstoppable monster, and the bane of all ant hills.

146 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:39:24pm

re: #137 OldLineTexan

re: #108 A Kiwi Infidel

This was at a "tower party" (pronounced "keg-ger", ask Jim in Virginia).

A friend of mine named Dianne made the bet that she could accomplish the males-only act of urinating in a cup IN FRONT OF HER while standing AND not wet herself at all. NB: Diane often played "quarters" with football players and beat the daylights consciousness out of them. She had attended an all-girls Catholic high school. Silly football players.

She went out into the commons and proved that she could indeed do it to a moderate audience. I have to say, she was also accurate, and accuracy counts.

I have never met another woman like her.

And she spelled it with 2 "n"s like that? We may have one like that here.....

147 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:39:32pm

re: #95 Nevergiveup

And that is the great dividing line

OK, I probably shouldn't mention this, but women are perfectly capable of peeing while standing. And they can aim, and even write their name in the snow while doing so, something I've witnessed for myself. And something I will never, ever mention face to face to anyone, under penalty of something far worse than death if she overhears me talking about it.

148 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:40:05pm

re: #144 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nope. I believe that a woman is totally capable of being a pussy and getting her ass kicked for being a snivelling wretch as easily as any man. I've known too many people who have been raised in "judgement free, no violence, free thinking families" and have ended up spineless self righteous idiots to think this kid will turn out any better.

Well, all right. I seriously doubt this experiment will last long. Too hard to keep up.

149 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:40:21pm

re: #147 SixDegrees

OK, I probably shouldn't mention this, but women are perfectly capable of peeing while standing. And they can aim, and even write their name in the snow while doing so, something I've witnessed for myself. And something I will never, ever mention face to face to anyone, under penalty of something far worse than death if she overhears me talking about it.

Is she named "Dianne"?

150 mikalm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:40:51pm

re: #126 CyanSnowHawk

Wolves and nipples? That reminds me of this surrealist classic (prolly NSFW)

151 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:41:09pm

re: #90 reine.de.tout

Nope. JUST YOU.
It's pronounced like "wren".

and all this time i was saying "ri-nee"

152 albusteve  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:42:44pm

Hi!...I'm friendly Stevve!

153 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:43:01pm

re: #121 buzzsawmonkey

Michael Powell and Emeric Pressburger did a famous film about that; Peeping Tom.

Raising Cain with John Lithgow has a similar theme but doesn't seem to be nearly as disturbing as "Peeping Tom."

154 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:43:12pm
155 NukeAtomrod  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:43:20pm

re: #7 Nevergiveup

It's a poll. There are many like it. But this poll is mine. Ah sorry just had a flash back

Flashback to Second Life : "This is a Penis Gun. There are many like it, but this one is mine." What I said to another player who said penis guns were so passe. Then I shot him and he experienced something new. My sloppy coding skills made for some unique penile projectile physics.

156 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:43:25pm

re: #46 reine.de.tout

too old.
lacked energy.
not enough charisma to overcome Obama.
Lot of people did not like Palin (I'm not one of those).
the country was ready for some sort of change, and did not see it in McCain.

You could add that:
- Most voters have close to zero knowledge of the issues and are easily fooled by clever slogans and rhetoric.
- The MSM did everything possible to trash McCain/Palin.
- The MSM did everything possible to whitewash Obama/Biden.

157 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:43:28pm

re: #112 Slumbering Behemoth

Truly a "WTF?" moment. What are they doing to infants over there in Sweden that their gender is an artificial construct?

My junk is an all natural construct, same as the day I was born.

/Wait. I mean, it's bigger now, but.. Aw hell!

Not just for Swedes any more..... you can find this in any wymins studies curriculum at universities around the good ol' U.S.A.

158 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:43:51pm

re: #149 wrenchwench

ROTFLMAO.

Hey, SD ... if you married Dianne, tell her "George" said hey. BTW, "George" is not my real name, but that's what Dianne and her friend Suzanne (who is now a Fed attorney) used to call me.

In fact, my one appearance in the yearbook is as "George".

My mother was less than amused.

159 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:43:54pm
160 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:43:56pm

re: #111 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And crap like this is why certain grow up getting their asses kicked. This kid will end up being a total pussy.

Or you wind up with someone like Buck Angel or Thomas Beatie.

Both picks safe for work. Buck Angel is a porn actor that is not the man you would think he is.

Fire alarm at work. Later all.

161 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:44:14pm

re: #154 buzzsawmonkey

Don't tell me you've never stopped into the old Wolf & Nipple for a quick pint.

That's Wooden Nickel..... put. the. beer. down.

162 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:44:16pm

re: #149 wrenchwench

Is she named "Dianne"?

Nope. Saw the above post, and wasn't surprised by it, though.

163 mikalm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:44:33pm

re: #144 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nope. I believe that a woman is totally capable of being a pussy and getting her ass kicked for being a snivelling wretch as easily as any man. I've known too many people who have been raised in "judgement free, no violence, free thinking families" and have ended up spineless self righteous idiots to think this kid will turn out any better.

I've known a few from backgrounds like that who became the opposite -- tough, cynical hardasses -- as a reaction being raised without proper boundaries or character-building.

164 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:44:36pm

re: #154 buzzsawmonkey

Don't tell me you've never stopped into the old Wolf & Nipple for a quick pint.

Try the Romulus & Remus Dark Ale!

/

165 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:44:58pm

re: #131 SixDegrees

It varies quite a bit, but 7% is on the small side as far as popular vote margins go. It's certainly within the realm of swinging over the other way had things been done only a little differently.

Rather astonishingly, Carter beat Ford by only 2%, while Nixon trounced McGovern to win his second term by 23%.

Thank you for the info!
I was too lazy to look up anything.
I just knew that many presidential races are won by very small margins.

166 callahan23  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:44:59pm

re: #142 doppelganglander

I'm sorry to hear that. Even amicable splits are difficult.

Thanks it was the Lizard community that helped through the first shock. Thanks again y'all.
(that is the reason why I usually end my commenting with: *I love you (Lizardim} - mostly* )

167 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:45:15pm
168 Dave the.....  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:45:48pm

145 Slumbering

Heh. My mom tells me that when I was a wee lad (see what I did there), I had to pee and there was no bathroom around. She told me it was okay for little boys to pee outdoors, a statement she soon regretted.

Especially after you moved into town.

169 MJ  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:45:55pm

re: #121 buzzsawmonkey

Michael Powell and Emeric Pressburger did a famous film about that; Peeping Tom.

This is what I was thinking of:

Ilse, a twelve-year-old girl, is orphaned when her parents die in a fire. She is left in the care of others unaware of her true condition. It seems that her parents raised her in ignorance, and did not even teach her to talk. In actuality, Ilse was raised (along with other children in far-away Europe) by parents who subjected her to an experiment. The experiment was essentially a language deprivation experiment, in which no one spoke (verbally) with the child. The experiment was intended to draw out inherent telepathic abilities that the parents believed all people once possessed, but which had been repressed after the development of spoken language.
The experiment with Ilse was particularly successful: Ilse communicated well telepathically. But after the death of her parents, Ilse lives in a world of people who speak with voices instead of their minds, and her life is turned upside down. Her teacher also possesses telepathic abilities, but believes they are a corruption to be overcome, and works vehemently to destroy Ilse's powers.
By the time she is found by a couple (from Germany) who had also raised their child as part of the experiment, Ilse's telepathic capability has been ruined, especially by her experiences in public school and the genuine love of her normal, adoptive parents, a man and wife. Additionally, Ilse wants to stay with them, as they have been taking care of her for the past three months, because they genuinely care about her (especially the wife).
It is explained at the end that Ilse's parents, while being nice to her, had not loved her, but viewed her primarily as a living experiment.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

170 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:46:01pm

re: #156 Son of the Black Dog

You could add that:
- Most voters have close to zero knowledge of the issues and are easily fooled by clever slogans and rhetoric.
- The MSM did everything possible to trash McCain/Palin.
- The MSM did everything possible to whitewash Obama/Biden.

Yes, very good additions.

171 calcajun  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:46:01pm

re: #154 buzzsawmonkey

Don't tell me you've never stopped into the old Wolf & Nipple for a quick pint.

But we stay too long there, Mom will Remus out but good.

172 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:46:04pm

re: #163 mikalm

I've known a few from backgrounds like that who became the opposite -- tough, cynical hardasses -- as a reaction being raised without proper boundaries or character-building.

Exceptions to every rule

173 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:47:21pm

re: #165 reine.de.tout

Thank you for the info!
I was too lazy to look up anything.
I just knew that many presidential races are won by very small margins.

Certainly true, that. Bush's first term, of course, had him actually losing the popular vote while winning the electoral college. And there are other cases where the margin was small as well. But this was a lopsided contest in many ways, yet the difference in popular vote was quite slim.

174 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:47:33pm

re: #168 Dave the.....

145 Slumbering


Especially after you moved into town.

Then again, every dog in town feared him.

He owned the trees, the fire hydrants, ...

175 EaterOfFood  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:47:57pm

re: #4 Gearhead

Ron Paul - just right

/Goldilocks

Goldilocks was a crook.

As for too "liberal," the word has been mangled beyond meaning in this country. The "Democratic" Party is as illiberal as any non-fringe party gets.

176 calcajun  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:48:02pm

re: #167 buzzsawmonkey

...and then go a-Roming.

What a Capitoline idea!

177 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:48:39pm

re: #135 doppelganglander

That's funny. I think of you half the time by your real name and half the time as reine. Sometimes nicknames just stick.

It seems the name (real or nic) by which you first "know" somebody sort of sticks in your head, ya know?

178 calcajun  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:48:54pm

re: #175 EaterOfFood

Goldilocks was a crook.

As for too "liberal," the word has been mangled beyond meaning in this country. The "Democratic" Party is as illiberal as any non-fringe party gets.

Yeah, Da Bear should have opened a can of furry whupass on her for vandalizing the house.

179 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:49:26pm

re: #151 nyc redneck

and all this time i was saying "ri-nee"

s' OK. hon.
You're one of them there yankees, so you get a pass.

180 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:49:52pm
181 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:49:53pm

re: #160 CyanSnowHawk

Fire alarm over moments after it began. Hope the building doesn't explode.

182 mikalm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:50:45pm

re: #172 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Exceptions to every rule

Indeed. I have a feeling that John Walker Lindh, the "American Taliban," was raised in that kind of environment, and ended up the way he did as a perverse way of asserting himself. Of course, his rebellion was rather calculated -- I doubt if his wimpy Marin County parents would have paid his way through his Big Adolescent Rebellion if he'd say, joined the Marine Corps and become a born-again Christian....

183 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:50:49pm

re: #180 buzzsawmonkey

Caracalla me up after you've taken your Baths, and we'll stop in. I'm sure the crowd will be in good Forum.

But when you go home, your wife will know where you Sabine.

/

184 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:51:43pm
185 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:52:01pm

Bloody heck, computer crashed............

186 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:52:11pm

re: #184 buzzsawmonkey

No worries. She's Etruscan me.

She told me you were a Cretan.

187 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:52:53pm
188 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:52:57pm

re: #182 mikalm

Indeed. I have a feeling that John Walker Lindh, the "American Taliban," was raised in that kind of environment, and ended up the way he did as a perverse way of asserting himself. Of course, his rebellion was rather calculated -- I doubt if his wimpy Marin County parents would have paid his way through his Big Adolescent Rebellion if he'd say, joined the Marine Corps and become a born-again Christian....

And they probably would have been disgusted if he became an Orthodox Jew and moved to Judea or Samaria.

189 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:53:00pm

re: #182 mikalm

Indeed. I have a feeling that John Walker Lindh, the "American Taliban," was raised in that kind of environment, and ended up the way he did as a perverse way of asserting himself. Of course, his rebellion was rather calculated -- I doubt if his wimpy Marin County parents would have paid his way through his Big Adolescent Rebellion if he'd say, joined the Marine Corps and become a born-again Christian....

I wonder if the fact that his father came out as gay when Johnny was a teenager didn't have a lot to do with it.

190 mikalm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:53:08pm

re: #186 OldLineTexan

She told me you were a Cretan.

Are you Spartan trouble here?

191 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:53:31pm

re: #186 OldLineTexan

She told me you were a Cretan.

You can't talk like that about buzz, that ol' Palatine!

192 calcajun  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:53:36pm

Ah, back down to the salt mines.

bbl

193 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:53:41pm

re: #168 Dave the.....

Heh. As I've been told, I would pee anywhere, in front of anyone. I had to be taught some discretion.

On some rare occasions, given enough beer, I forget those lessons. Random strangers have my junk more often than any doctor.

194 albusteve  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:53:59pm

this is good...BO is pissing of ......Hellen Thomas!


[Link: www.breitbart.tv...]

195 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:54:17pm

re: #189 doppelganglander

I wonder if the fact that his father came out as gay when Johnny was a teenager didn't have a lot to do with it.

I know a few people that's happened to, but none of them went that far off the rails. A little vandalism at most.

196 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:55:15pm

re: #190 mikalm

Are you Spartan trouble here?

No one break the thread please. Strict rules here. Euripides, Eumenides.

197 DaddyG  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:56:04pm

Damn extreme moderates are taking over this country. /

198 callahan23  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:56:07pm

re: #189 doppelganglander

I wonder if the fact that his father came out as gay when Johnny was a teenager didn't have a lot to do with it.

I'd opine that it still is his own friggin responsibility to deal with it and not his father's to come out as gay.

199 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:56:55pm

This shows the attitude of those writing the health care legislation:
Rangel: Drug firms have been stealing

One of the principal authors of health care legislation taking shape in the House accused drug companies and other medical providers today of stealing, and said they are now offering concessions in the hopes the bill that emerges will not demand too much of them.


And the drug companies respond:

In response to Rangel’s comments, Ken Johnson, executive vice president of PhRMA, said: "We would love to have Mr. Rangel spend a few days in a laboratory talking to some of our scientists who are working to cure cancer, heart disease and Alzheimer’s. Perhaps then he would have a better appreciation of what we do. Yes, we agree saving money is important. But so is saving lives."


Say goodbye to medical research under government funded health care.

200 solomonpanting  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:57:12pm

re: #196 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No one break the thread please. Strict rules here. Euripides, Eumenides.

Don't put more on your Plato than you can consume.

201 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:57:17pm

re: #187 buzzsawmonkey

Syracuse me of something like that, and I won't buy the next round.

That Galicia your problem; you married her.

202 mikalm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:57:30pm

re: #195 SanFranciscoZionist

I know a few people that's happened to, but none of them went that far off the rails. A little vandalism at most.

His father came off in the interviews as a sniveling wimp -- not a real great role model for an adolescent boy. Coming out must have just been the icing on the cake.

203 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:57:46pm
204 DaddyG  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:58:31pm

Those puns are classic.

205 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:58:32pm

re: #203 buzzsawmonkey

You have your Gaul, saying that.

Are you saying I've Briton off more than I can chew? Don't Hadrian the player, dog ...

206 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:58:34pm

re: #198 callahan23

I'd opine that it still is his own friggin responsibility to deal with it and not his father's to come out as gay.

Oh, absolutely, but it's got to be a shock. My line of thinking is, for a young teenager who is still figuring out what it means to be a man, it's a lot to deal with. Islam has very hard and fast ideas about masculine and feminine, and that might be attractive to a certain type of confused kid. All speculation on my part, of course.

207 jorline  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:58:36pm

re: #177 reine.de.tout

Good afternoon, Reine. Have you seen this yet?

Iranian Government Says Neda Soltan's Murder Was 'Staged'

Soltan's family and those with her at the time of her death said that members of the paramilitary Basij militia drove by on a motorcycle and shot her in an alley near a major protest in Tehran.

But, according to Iran's Press TV, police chief Esmaeil Ahmadi-Moqadam declared Wednesday that the shooting was a "prearranged scenario" — a "premeditated act of murder" that could not have been committed by Iranian police.

The Iranian has claimed so far;

1. Neda was killed by terrorist.
2. Neda was killed by the CIA.
3. Neda was killed by protesters.
4. Neda is alive and well.

The only ones not blamed at this time are GWB and Ron Paul.

208 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:58:37pm

re: #203 buzzsawmonkey

You have your Gaul, saying that.

You all are acting very provincial here....

209 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:58:52pm

The subject, before I was kicked out, was learning French.

I was going to say that I was streamed into a Fwench language class in my first year at an all boys high school. The teacher was an older woman called Lucy with huge voluptuous breasts.

The entire class failed Fwench that year.

210 snowcrash  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:58:54pm

re: #151 nyc redneck
Big tea party in Times Square today!

211 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:59:03pm
212 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:59:17pm

re: #199 Kosh's Shadow

This shows the attitude of those writing the health care legislation:
Rangel: Drug firms have been stealing


Say goodbye to medical research under government funded health care.

That's all part of the plan.... once private firms drop research, there will be a new "medical research" crisis for the government to create a new czar to fix.

213 DaddyG  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:59:33pm

re: #206 doppelganglander
Johnny Walker is Jihadcurious.

214 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:59:46pm

re: #207 jorline

Good afternoon, Reine. Have you seen this yet?

Iranian Government Says Neda Soltan's Murder Was 'Staged'

The Iranian has claimed so far;

1. Neda was killed by terrorist.
2. Neda was killed by the CIA.
3. Neda was killed by protesters.
4. Neda is alive and well.

The only ones not blamed at this time are GWB and Ron Paul.

good grief.
thanks, Jorline.

215 solomonpanting  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 2:59:48pm

re: #201 OldLineTexan

That Galicia your problem; you married her.

Only after he said he would Caesar.

216 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:00:09pm

re: #204 DaddyG

Those puns are classic.

They're from Punnonia......

217 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:00:17pm

re: #207 jorline

Your left off the Jooooos.

218 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:00:20pm

re: #207 jorline

Good afternoon, Reine. Have you seen this yet?

Iranian Government Says Neda Soltan's Murder Was 'Staged'


The Iranian has claimed so far;

1. Neda was killed by terrorist.
2. Neda was killed by the CIA.
3. Neda was killed by protesters.
4. Neda is alive and well.

The only ones not blamed at this time are GWB and Ron Paul.


What happened to the evil zionist occupiers? Havent they been blamed yet?
/

219 jorline  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:01:02pm

re: #217 OldLineTexan

Your left off the Jooooos.

oops...sorry!

220 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:01:14pm

re: #217 OldLineTexan

Your left off the Jooooos.


3 seconds!

221 jcm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:03:06pm

re: #211 buzzsawmonkey

One more Iberia, and that's it for me.

I Basque in these pun threads.

222 opnion  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:03:28pm

I go away for about an hour & wham all of these people think that the Democrat Party is too liberal.
Who woulda thunk? Wasn't there a Rasmussen poll in which over 40% of Independents had no idea that Obama was a liberal when they voted for him? What did they think he is?

223 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:04:05pm

re: #221 jcm

I Basque in these pun threads.

All you punners are as thick as thebes......

224 Eowyn2  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:04:16pm

re: #53 MJ

I'm guessing there is no day care and WHEN will they potty train it (the non gender term for something.)

Pop

The kid is 2 1/2, he/she knows whether he/she is a girl like mommy or a boy like daddy. Its all in the eh hmmm, peepee.

225 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:04:21pm

re: #199 Kosh's Shadow

This shows the attitude of those writing the health care legislation:
Rangel: Drug firms have been stealing


Say goodbye to medical research under government funded health care.

Research will be strictly a government function per Directive 10-289.

226 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:04:33pm

re: #222 opnion

I go away for about an hour & wham all of these people think that the Democrat Party is too liberal.
Who woulda thunk? Wasn't there a Rasmussen poll in which over 40% of Independents had no idea that Obama was a liberal when they voted for him? What did they think he is?

Clean & Articulate!

/has anybody seen Joe?

227 mardukhai  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:05:02pm

As an ultra-moderate, middle-of-the-road extremist, I know exactly how frustrating things are.

Between the leftwing moonbats and rightwing wingnuts, well, I wish we cut both wings off the political bird and just use plain common sense.

228 solomonpanting  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:05:04pm

re: #222 opnion

What did they think he is?

The Juan

229 J.D.  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:05:04pm
this year the number of Americans who described the Democratic Party’s views as “too liberal” increased to a historic high mark (46%), putting it slightly ahead of the number who say the Republican Party is “too conservative” (43%).


Finally there is hope for change!
GONE

230 DaddyG  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:05:11pm

re: #222 opnion

...Wasn't there a Rasmussen poll in which over 40% of Independents had no idea that Obama was a liberal when they voted for him? What did they think he is?

Change! Hope! ...and good with unicorns!

231 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:05:31pm

re: #224 Eowyn2

I'm guessing there is no day care and WHEN will they potty train it (the non gender term for something.)

Pop

The kid is 2 1/2, he/she knows whether he/she is a girl like mommy or a boy like daddy. Its all in the eh hmmm, peepee.

Well, unless as part of this experiment mommy and daddy are hiding from the child.

It's just too weird.

232 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:05:34pm

re: #224 Eowyn2

I'm guessing there is no day care and WHEN will they potty train it (the non gender term for something.)

Pop

The kid is 2 1/2, he/she knows whether he/she is a girl like mommy or a boy like daddy. Its all in the eh hmmm, peepee.

Thou makest assumptions, I feare. These People be Progressives.

/

233 callahan23  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:05:38pm

re: #206 doppelganglander

Agreed, but those 'distressed' young still need to learn lesson No.1 'Get a life!'
I lived through a lot of stressful situations and I as the great majority of people manage to keep sane.
You see? %-)

234 Eowyn2  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:05:49pm

re: #207 jorline

I believe the CIA implies GWB and Israel.

235 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:06:02pm

Coffee...........BBL

236 mardukhai  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:06:20pm

Why can't we have a president, who's more like... ME!

; - ))

237 J.D.  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:06:46pm

re: #222 opnion

Mr. J.D. says he doesn't think o's a liberal.

It is to laugh.

238 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:07:01pm

re: #233 callahan23

Agreed, but those 'distressed' young still need to learn lesson No.1 'Get a life!'
I lived through a lot of stressful situations and I as the great majority of people manage to keep sane.
You see? %-)

I try to explain things, I don't try to excuse them. I thought his 20-year sentence was a slap on the wrist and he should be put away for life.

239 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:07:01pm

re: #236 mardukhai

Why can't we have a president, who's more like... ME!

; - ))

You ran a crappy campaign, John. Retire already.

/////

240 jorline  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:07:14pm

re: #222 opnion

I go away for about an hour & wham all of these people think that the Democrat Party is too liberal.
Who woulda thunk? Wasn't there a Rasmussen poll in which over 40% of Independents had no idea that Obama was a liberal when they voted for him? What did they think he is?

Rasmussen's 40% of independents.

241 horse  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:07:24pm

What is also interesting is the perception of independents. (gallup poll page) It shows 49% of indi's view the R's as too conservative while 45% view the D's as too liberal (and 17% view the R's as too liberal). As a result, the poll doesn't contain great news for the R's, just ok news.

I would guess there is a lingering impression the R's are too conservative because a lot of what we hear from them are around social con issues which the majority of Americans just don't care about. If they would have focused on economic and fiscal conservationism along with smaller less intrusive government more people would probably think they were just right. If they don't get their groove back soon, 2010 won't be that great for them.

242 mardukhai  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:07:34pm

Bill O'Reilly says that he's not a conservative!

Hoo-ha!

243 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:07:52pm

re: #237 J.D.

Mr. J.D. says he doesn't think o's a liberal.

It is to laugh.

He's actually right. Obama isn't a liberal. He's a radical.

244 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:08:27pm

re: #242 mardukhai

Bill O'Reilly says that he's not a conservative!

Hoo-ha!

But he's not a conservative!
He's an independent, he tells us.
And then he tries to "prove" it by taking wacky positions on a number of different things.
I don't believe him.

245 Eowyn2  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:08:44pm

re: #199 Kosh's Shadow

"Everyone knows that people around the table are stealing, but they don’t want to turn each other in if they’re going to have to pay the full penalty," said Rep. Charles Rangel, chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee.


Charlie Rangel and the knights of the house table.

246 jorline  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:08:53pm

re: #234 Eowyn2

I believe the CIA implies GWB and Israel.

Waiting for PBO to release that information soon.
/

247 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:08:53pm

re: #242 mardukhai

Bill O'Reilly says that he's not a conservative!

Hoo-ha!

Which part of the political spectrum is ratings hound?

248 J.D.  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:09:10pm

re: #243 LGoPs

He's actually right. Obama isn't a liberal. He's a radical.

Oh... well he doesn't think that either.
I'd say he's both.

249 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:09:20pm

re: #247 CyanSnowHawk

Which part of the political spectrum is ratings hound?

He does stay employed, doesn't he?

/

250 eon  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:09:33pm

re: #236 mardukhai

Why can't we have a president, who's more like... ME!

; - ))

Good evening, Lizards.

Well, you probably don't want a president like me. My personal opinion is that, by comparison, you'd all be safer with either Robert A. Heinlein or P.J. O'Rourke in the Oval Office.

RAH had, and P.J. has, a fair-to-middling sense of proportion. As far as I know, I don't have one, period.

cheers

eon

251 Rancher  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:09:50pm

Wait till the bill comes due for the massive increase in spending. High interest rates and inflation are forms of taxation that hit everyone hard, not just the rich who Obama said would be the only ones to pay. Liberalism is fine if you don't have to pay, class envy is very much alive in this country, but we don't have anywhere near enough rich, however you define rich, to pay for what has already been allocated. And soon we will add Obamacare to the bill.

252 mardukhai  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:09:58pm

Actually, horse, it's also economics. People want business, consumer, and drug regulation.

They want universal health coverage.

Sorry, libertarians have had their day. They produced the Savings and Loan cricis in the 80's and the banking crisis last year.

253 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:10:27pm

re: #58 pink freud

The "construct" is gender identity, not gender. This article makes me see red.

Technically speaking, the construct is gender. Sex is biological. Gender is what we tack on to it.

I can see why they'd want to do this, but I'm not sure how long they can keep it up.

I've got a bias, though. I'm sexed female, but gendered indeterminate and it can be very stressful at times, even as an adult. As a child and especially as a teenager it was awful. Especially around puberty when all the boys who were my friends suddenly started acting really weird around me and all the girls who were my friends started not liking me because of all the boys who were my friends. 13 is an awful time to be BFFs with the cutest boy in school.

You couldn't pay me enough money to be a teenager again.

254 opnion  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:10:58pm

re: #226 OldLineTexan

Clean & Articulate!

/has anybody seen Joe?

He runs out for burgers

255 J.D.  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:10:59pm

re: #252 mardukhai

People want business, consumer, and drug regulation.

They want universal health coverage.


Not I.

256 callahan23  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:11:55pm

re: #238 doppelganglander

I try to explain things, I don't try to excuse them. I thought his 20-year sentence was a slap on the wrist and he should be put away for life.

I understood your intend and agree a lot. I am just too involved on a daily basis with lib-think, 's all. Please excuse me if I came of as offensive.
Concerning the sentencing of that monster I all for putting him and his ilk away for life. No rights of parole allowed.

257 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:12:04pm

re: #253 ~Fianna

You couldn't pay me enough money to be a teenager again.

No kidding. My bald spot would not go well with the droopy shorts and unlaced shoes these teenagers wear.

/

258 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:12:19pm

re: #254 opnion

He runs out for burgers

I like him more, now.

259 Eowyn2  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:12:25pm

re: #231 reine.de.tout

Well, unless as part of this experiment mommy and daddy are hiding from the child.

It's just too weird.

you ever try to hide from a two year old?
Once a child learns to walk until they are 5 (sometimes older) you will be constantly interrupted in the bathroom no matter what you are doing, even if all you are doing is scrubbing the floor.

260 jcm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:12:43pm

re: #252 mardukhai

.....the banking crisis last year.

Ahh, the banking crisis was rooted in the CRA, can you say Rabbit Bait?

I knew you could.

GWB tried in his budget to increase oversight of Freddie and Fannie. But Bwanery Fwank blocked it.

261 mardukhai  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:12:45pm

re: #255 J.D.

Not I.

You're not a "people" -- you're a libertarian.

262 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:12:48pm

re: #255 J.D.

Not I.

Nor I.

263 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:13:08pm

re: #210 snowcrash

Big tea party in Times Square today!

i'm hoping to scoot up there this evening, in sensible shoes.
not the strappy sandals.:D

264 Russkilitlover  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:13:23pm

re: #252 mardukhai

People want business, consumer, and drug regulation.

They want universal health coverage.

People better be fucking careful what they wish for.

265 mardukhai  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:13:35pm

; - ))

266 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:13:46pm

re: #259 Eowyn2

you ever try to hide from a two year old?
Once a child learns to walk until they are 5 (sometimes older) you will be constantly interrupted in the bathroom no matter what you are doing, even if all you are doing is scrubbing the floor.

True, true.
The kids. AND the pets.
for some reason, whenever I would go to the bathroom, the daughter, the dog, and all 4 cats would be sitting right outside the door, begging to be let in.
Drove me crazy.

267 J.D.  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:13:52pm

re: #261 mardukhai

You're not a "people" -- you're a libertarian.

Not a libertarian.

There's no future in it.

268 96RoadKing  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:13:57pm

re: #252 mardukhai

Actually, horse, it's also economics. People want business, consumer, and drug regulation.

They want universal health coverage.

Sorry, libertarians have had their day. They produced the Savings and Loan cricis in the 80's and the banking crisis last year.

Excuse me, but how did libertarians create these crises? If memory serves, the Savings and Loan crises was precipitated by a change in regulations that allowed them to take higher risks without having the the necessary assets to cover the risks. Same thing with the banking (read subprime loans) last year. If you don't have the assets to cover the bill when it comes due, you wind up with a 'crisis'. Whether it's personal or professional.

269 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:14:25pm

re: #263 nyc redneck

i'm hoping to scoot up there this evening, in sensible shoes.
not the strappy sandals.:D

wear jackboots, because if you go you're a nazi

i learned that here

270 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:14:31pm

re: #263 nyc redneck

i'm hoping to scoot up there this evening, in sensible shoes.
not the strappy sandals.:D

Red shoes, I hope?

271 DaddyG  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:14:41pm

re: #259 Eowyn2

you ever try to hide from a two year old?

One of my daughters pushed open our locked bedroom door at the age of 2 and got an eyefull of education from the foot of our bed. She gave us a disgusted look like we were eating worms and stomped back out of the room.

Thats gonna come up in a therapy session one day.

272 horse  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:14:48pm

re: #222 opnion

I go away for about an hour & wham all of these people think that the Democrat Party is too liberal.
Who woulda thunk? Wasn't there a Rasmussen poll in which over 40% of Independents had no idea that Obama was a liberal when they voted for him? What did they think he is?

The Michael Jackson of national politics. Entertaining, fun, easy to love and idolize, impossible to really know.

273 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:14:57pm

re: #63 mikalm

Gender = fluid social construct
Homosexuality = innate genetic hard-wiring

Yup. I've repeated this elsewhere, but it bears repeating. Sex and sexual preference are biology. Those are the things that generally come out binary according to nature. One (usually, anyway) either has a penis and testicles or they have a vagina and a uterus. People usually have some form of dominant sexual preference for one or the other.

Gender and gender preferences are things like wearing skirts, liking pink, fixing cars, etc. We tack on a bunch of stupid ones to that, too - the math/science v. arts/humanities thing is pretty highly gendered.

274 irongrampa  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:15:05pm

re: #245 Eowyn2

Charles Rangel lecturing ANYONE on theft is irony thick enough to walk on.

275 mardukhai  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:15:09pm

Actually, the Australian system works just fine. It's a mix of public and private insurance.

Look into it.

Nobody has a private for-profit insurance mess like ours. It just doesn't work.

276 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:15:10pm

re: #266 reine.de.tout

True, true.
The kids. AND the pets.
for some reason, whenever I would go to the bathroom, the daughter, the dog, and all 4 cats would be sitting right outside the door, begging to be let in.
Drove me crazy.

You eat ice cream on the john ONE TIME ...

277 96RoadKing  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:15:11pm

re: #255 J.D.

Not I.

Me either.

278 Russkilitlover  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:15:35pm

re: #260 jcm

Ahh, the banking crisis was rooted in the CRA, can you say Rabbit Bait?


And exacerbated under Clinton with further loosening of CRA. The greed, overreaching, willy-nilly financial schemes are the product of Democrat policies.

279 snowcrash  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:15:36pm

re: #263 nyc redneck
Have fun. Don't incite any riots! lol I'll try the earth cam link for times sq. and see what the crowd is like.

280 J.D.  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:15:54pm

re: #275 mardukhai

Are you thinking this will be "free" and "better"?

281 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:15:56pm

re: #271 DaddyG

One of my daughters pushed open our locked bedroom door at the age of 2 and got an eyefull of education from the foot of our bed. She gave us a disgusted look like we were eating worms and stomped back out of the room.

Thats gonna come up in a therapy session one day.

"...hold on, Daddy, this is where the mailman got bucked off!"

/joke #97

282 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:16:21pm

re: #256 callahan23

I understood your intend and agree a lot. I am just too involved on a daily basis with lib-think, 's all. Please excuse me if I came of as offensive.
Concerning the sentencing of that monster I all for putting him and his ilk away for life. No rights of parole allowed.

No, I was not offended at all. Honestly, I tend to be very harsh in my judgment of people and I'm working on developing some sympathy and compassion. So I try to understand what might make a person behave a certain way, even if I don't condone or excuse their behavior. Mostly, I end up right back at my original judgment, though.

283 J.D.  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:16:42pm

To the fitness center to care for my health.

284 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:16:53pm

re: #263 nyc redneck

i'm hoping to scoot up there this evening, in sensible shoes.
not the strappy sandals.:D

Make sure you personally root out any Paulian or neo-nazi you find there.....
///

285 Russkilitlover  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:16:54pm

re: #269 OldLineTexan

wear jackboots, because if you go you're a nazi

i learned that here

ROTFLMAO!

286 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:17:07pm

re: #281 OldLineTexan

"...hold on, Daddy, this is where the mailman got bucked off!"

/joke #97

"Roll her over Daddy, I want a puppy!"

/joke "16

287 ShanghaiEd  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:17:10pm

re: #244 reine.de.tout

But he's not a conservative!
He's an independent, he tells us.
And then he tries to "prove" it by taking wacky positions on a number of different things.
I don't believe him.

Is it just me, or is one of these things not like the other?

I've never thought that "Independent" fit on the scale of liberal and conservative, but was strictly a party affiliation...or lack thereof.

Democrat, Republican, Independent

Conservative, Liberal...Centrist? Moderate? Lots of options in between, but I don't think "Independent" is one of em.

288 jorline  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:17:25pm

Saw a new bumper sticker today.

Obamanos!

289 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:17:27pm

re: #275 mardukhai

Actually, the Australian system works just fine. It's a mix of public and private insurance.

Look into it.

Nobody has a private for-profit insurance mess like ours. It just doesn't work.

teh oztralyuns haz teh pokit kittehs taht eated opium and got HAI, k? kant trust them.

/

290 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:17:37pm
291 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:17:46pm

re: #257 OldLineTexan

No kidding. My bald spot would not go well with the droopy shorts and unlaced shoes these teenagers wear.

/

I'm 34 and completely loving it. Things that I thought were mountains when I was in my 20s and younger are so not important.

All the nonsense that I stressed about is just pointless.

292 mardukhai  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:18:02pm

re: #268 96RoadKing

If you refuse to regulate a huge business because you've got an ideological bee up your backside, you're a libertarian. Sorry, regulation is necessary, and RR fired all the regulators.

(He also destroyed my dad's best friend, one of the country's leading and completely honest savings and loan guys.)

293 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:18:27pm

re: #284 LGoPs

Make sure you personally root out any Paulian or neo-nazi you find there.....
///

kick 'em in the ass with yer jackboots

/not really, assault is BAD, mmmkay?

294 horse  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:18:57pm

re: #252 mardukhai

You are in error, either intentionally or through lack of knowledge. Go read up on your opinion and try to actually support it. Banking crisis, lol.

295 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:19:09pm

re: #196 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No one break the thread please. Strict rules here. Euripides, Eumenides.

Thanks for the reminder. That was a Clotho call.

296 Flyers1974  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:19:39pm

re: #227 mardukhai

As an ultra-moderate, middle-of-the-road extremist, I know exactly how frustrating things are.

Between the leftwing moonbats and rightwing wingnuts, well, I wish we cut both wings off the political bird and just use plain common sense.

I think the cause of the problem is pretty easy to see but very difficult to "fix": those who are most extreme are by definition also the most committed.

297 96RoadKing  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:19:51pm

re: #275 mardukhai

Actually, the Australian system works just fine. It's a mix of public and private insurance.

Look into it.

Nobody has a private for-profit insurance mess like ours. It just doesn't work.

IMHO the reason our private for-profit insurance is such a mess is because State and Federal Government got involved and screwed it up by requiring all sorts of coverage regardless of personal choice. In my state they require insurance companies all sorts of special interest group's preferences, driving up coverage costs.

298 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:19:52pm

re: #275 mardukhai

Actually, the Australian system works just fine. It's a mix of public and private insurance.

Look into it.

Nobody has a private for-profit insurance mess like ours. It just doesn't work.

Crap. And I've been using mine for almost 25 years.

299 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:21:01pm

Going to forage for dinner. Later.

300 mardukhai  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:21:50pm

re: #296 Flyers1974

I think the cause of the problem is pretty easy to see but very difficult to "fix": those who are most extreme are by definition also the most committed.

Alas, sir, you appear to be right...

301 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:22:10pm

re: #269 OldLineTexan

wear jackboots, because if you go you're a nazi

i learned that here

LOL,
i didn't see one nazi at the tax day tea party and i was searching the crowd.
just lots of regular decent looking people waving american flags.

302 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:22:36pm

re: #300 mardukhai

Alas, sir, you appear to be right...

It's true. You can't get Dianne Feinstein's finger off a trigger, try as you may.

/

303 irongrampa  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:23:18pm

re: #301 nyc redneck

And I suspect, if you're experience matched mine, the people there didn't trash the place.

304 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:23:19pm

re: #301 nyc redneck

LOL,
i didn't see one nazi at the tax day tea party and i was searching the crowd.
just lots of regular decent looking people waving american flags.

you're wrong, i saw it on teh intertubes ...

/

305 jcm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:23:20pm

re: #290 buzzsawmonkey

[ ] strongly agree

[ ] agree

[ ] disagree

[X] strongly disagree

Exclusively homosexual behavior is "hard-wired" in very few. In many people it is a fluid social construct.

Did you have to say "fluid?"

306 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:23:38pm

re: #301 nyc redneck

LOL,
i didn't see one nazi at the tax day tea party and i was searching the crowd.
just lots of regular decent looking people waving american flags.

Thats how they sucker you in man!

/

307 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:24:03pm

re: #303 irongrampa

And I suspect, if you're experience matched mine, the people there didn't trash the place.

who are you going to believe, your lying eyes or stormfront internet nazis?

/

308 jcm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:24:07pm

re: #299 doppelganglander

Going to forage for dinner. Later.

I tried that.....

They kicked me out of the grocery store.....

309 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:24:17pm

re: #270 reine.de.tout

Red shoes, I hope?

navy blue.
red bandana blouse and jeans.
american flag and israeli flag.

310 irongrampa  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:24:38pm

re: #307 OldLineTexan

Yes.

311 lobo91  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:24:38pm

re: #301 nyc redneck

LOL,
i didn't see one nazi at the tax day tea party and i was searching the crowd.
just lots of regular decent looking people waving american flags.

Nazis? I have it on good authority that everyone who attended one of the Tea Parties was a racist, not a Nazi.
///

312 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:24:53pm

re: #301 nyc redneck

LOL,
i didn't see one nazi at the tax day tea party and i was searching the crowd.
just lots of regular decent looking people waving american flags.

You must not have looked hard enough. That's part of their devilish infiltration plan. To dress and act decently just to throw you off. They're everywheeeeere......
///

313 callahan23  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:25:01pm

re: #282 doppelganglander

No, I was not offended at all. Honestly, I tend to be very harsh in my judgment of people and I'm working on developing some sympathy and compassion. So I try to understand what might make a person behave a certain way, even if I don't condone or excuse their behavior. Mostly, I end up right back at my original judgment, though.

You are good. As long as you try to work on yourself all is well.
I generally tend to get along with most of anybody. Lots of disappointments have only served in strengthening my defenses not my general approach to people though..
Lizardia is just the place to hone those skills as well as increasing the learning curve for me.

314 mardukhai  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:25:23pm

re: #297 96RoadKing

IMHO the reason our private for-profit insurance is such a mess is because State and Federal Government got involved and screwed it up by requiring all sorts of coverage regardless of personal choice. In my state they require insurance companies all sorts of special interest group's preferences, driving up coverage costs.

Uh-huh -- that's why the US spend's a third more on health care for far less coverage than any other industrialized society in the world. It has nothing to do with vast private buroucracies designed to deny coverage, armies of unindured or underinsured, "pre-existing conditions," etc., etc., etc.

Somebody mentioned Heinlein. Maybe private healthcare fanatics should organize a "coventry" as he suggested and let each other get sick and die.

315 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:25:33pm

re: #242 mardukhai

Bill O'Reilly says that he's not a conservative!

Hoo-ha!

Bill O'Reilly has indicated that he's OK with al-Qaeda blowing up my hometown. I don't think he's conservative, I think he's a jerk.

316 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:25:34pm

re: #303 irongrampa

And I suspect, if you're experience matched mine, the people there didn't trash the place.

please place all refuse in the trash blimps so that the grüppenfuhrer can collect it at the end of the rally. heil paul have a nice day.

/

317 jet2nc  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:25:44pm

Too Liberal? That poll was probably taken before Al Franken was made the MN junior US senator. At one time MN had a license plate "Land of 10,000 Lakes". Now the MN license plates, or even the official congressional DC plates should have the motto " Land of Liberal Leaning Loonies". Minnesota is a beautiful state. The Mississippi River begins as a small stream there until it becomes a mighty river. How could the MN voters elect to congress a left wing liberal comedian who has an IQ lower than then average January temperature in Minneapolis? They probably did not.

318 96RoadKing  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:26:23pm

re: #292 mardukhai

If you refuse to regulate a huge business because you've got an ideological bee up your backside, you're a libertarian. Sorry, regulation is necessary, and RR fired all the regulators.

(He also destroyed my dad's best friend, one of the country's leading and completely honest savings and loan guys.)


Sorry to hear about your dad's best friend. I'm not a libertarian, and I agree my comment would be construed as such. I think we can agree that there can be too little as well as too much regulation. My point was not regarding outside regulation, rather it was regarding irresponsible and destructive behavior caused by changes in government regulation that was generated by special interests. Make sense?

319 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:26:47pm

re: #314 mardukhai

Uh-huh -- that's why the US spend's a third more on health care for far less coverage than any other industrialized society in the world. It has nothing to do with vast private buroucracies designed to deny coverage, armies of unindured or underinsured, "pre-existing conditions," etc., etc., etc.

Somebody mentioned Heinlein. Maybe private healthcare fanatics should organize a "coventry" as he suggested and let each other get sick and die.

All right, it's time for hyperbole!

/

320 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:26:53pm
321 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:27:17pm
322 irongrampa  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:27:25pm

re: #316 OldLineTexan

You are chanelling Kilgore again, I see.

323 Flyers1974  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:27:37pm

re: #300 mardukhai

Alas, sir, you appear to be right...

How one solves that problem, I have no clue. Actually i'd say if anything, that problem solves itself. The party getting too far ahead of the electorate will be punished at the polls.

324 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:27:51pm

re: #290 buzzsawmonkey

[ ] strongly agree

[ ] agree

[ ] disagree

[X] strongly disagree

Exclusively homosexual behavior is "hard-wired" in very few. In many people it is a fluid social construct.

I would agree with that, to a certain extent. For most people, it's not an either/or... It's a continuum, not a binary. But most people do have a dominant preference and it's apparent (whether they admit it at the time or not) fairly early.

That's why I feel sorry for people like Larry Craig. And boggled that it matters so much to people what grown-ups do with other grown-ups. If the poor man could just have admitted that he was attracted to men without facing the loss of everything that meant something to him in his life, he'd probably not be trolling for cheap sex in the men's room.

325 nikis-knight  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:27:59pm

re: #259 Eowyn2

you ever try to hide from a two year old?
Once a child learns to walk Crawl until they are 5 (sometimes older) you will be constantly interrupted in the bathroom no matter what you are doing, even if all you are doing is scrubbing the floor.


Fixed it for you ;)

326 capitalist piglet  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:28:13pm

re: #308 jcm

I tried that.....

They kicked me out of the grocery store.....

You're not that guy they arrested in Bellevue a couple of years back, are you?

327 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:28:16pm

re: #284 LGoPs

Make sure you personally root out any Paulian or neo-nazi you find there.....
///

LOL, that's one of the reasons i'm going.
i'll make citizen arrests of any and all suspects.
and i will scrutinize them carefully.
it won't take much for me to slap the cuffs on. we can't be too careful.
paul-bots and nazis are goin' down.
:D

328 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:28:16pm

re: #319 OldLineTexan

All right, it's time for hyperbole!

/

I prefer litotes.......

329 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:28:19pm

re: #322 irongrampa

just havin' some fun, but it is weirod what you can learn on teh intertubes.

;)

330 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:28:21pm

Eurofascism on the rise.....
Le Pen's daughter in National Front victory


Marine Le Pen, 40, and her running-mate topped the poll on Sunday night's municipal by-election in Hénin-Beaumont, an impoverished former coal mining town near Lens in the Pas de Calais. Having won nearly 40 per cent of the votes cast in the first round, the Le Pens' National Front party is in a strong position to capture its first town hall for seven years in the run-off ballot this Sunday. It would be the first time that the ultra-nationalist, anti-immigrant, anti-European party has taken control of a town council in the depressed industrial areas of northern France. Victory would also strengthen Mme Le Pen's chances of inheriting, and attempting to modernise the NF, when her 81-year-old father retires in the next two to three years.
331 lobo91  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:28:43pm

re: #314 mardukhai

Uh-huh -- that's why the US spend's a third more on health care for far less coverage than any other industrialized society in the world. It has nothing to do with vast private buroucracies designed to deny coverage, armies of unindured or underinsured, "pre-existing conditions," etc., etc., etc.

And that has nothing to do with the fact that the US health care system basically subsidizes those other "industrialiazed societies'" systems, right?

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that about 90% of all new drugs and medical technologies come from the US...

332 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:28:53pm

re: #324 ~Fianna

I would agree with that, to a certain extent. For most people, it's not an either/or... It's a continuum, not a binary. But most people do have a dominant preference and it's apparent (whether they admit it at the time or not) fairly early.

That's why I feel sorry for people like Larry Craig. And boggled that it matters so much to people what grown-ups do with other grown-ups. If the poor man could just have admitted that he was attracted to men without facing the loss of everything that meant something to him in his life, he'd probably not be trolling for cheap sex in the men's room.

Then again, maybe he's a pennypincher ...

333 Rancher  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:29:39pm

re: #252 mardukhai

Sorry, libertarians have had their day. They produced the Savings and Loan cricis in the 80's and the banking crisis last year.


Bull, the oversight was there, the overseers like Dodd and Frank turned a blind eye. The regulations were watered down by liberals, beginning with Clinton, in order to make more Americans, especially minorities, homeowners. Here is my argument in more detail with clear historical data and examples.

334 Eowyn2  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:30:06pm

re: #251 Rancher

Wait till the bill comes due for the massive increase in spending. High interest rates and inflation are forms of taxation that hit everyone hard, not just the rich who Obama said would be the only ones to pay. Liberalism is fine if you don't have to pay, class envy is very much alive in this country, but we don't have anywhere near enough rich, however you define rich, to pay for what has already been allocated. And soon we will add Obamacare to the bill.

Nonsense, we have way too many rich. We need to level the playing field.
Tear down all houses to 1200 sq ft.
Use extra bricks and wood to build everyone in the US a house.
Houses can be built on the acres surrounding the big houses.

Dont touch LA movie star houses, they need those
/

335 jcm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:30:11pm

re: #326 capitalist piglet

You're not that guy they arrested in Bellevue a couple of years back, are you?

LOOK!

Over there A UFO!

336 eon  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:30:48pm

re: #252 mardukhai

Actually, horse, it's also economics. People want business, consumer, and drug regulation.

They want universal health coverage.

Sorry, libertarians have had their day. They produced the Savings and Loan cricis in the 80's and the banking crisis last year.


1. I would be OK with such regulation, if I believed those who would be doing the regulating (a) had actual knowledge of the field in question and (b) would make decisions based on hard data, not their personal dogmas. I don't see that happening with this lot.

2. As for universal health coverage, so far no one has been able to make it work, and every country that has tried has ended up with a "two-tiered" system (one for the elite', the other for everybody else), with the "everybody else" ending up with a lot of people dying who wouldn't under our "imperfect" system. From which I deduce that such "perfect" and "fair" systems work about as well as any other purely theoretical construct in the real world, i.e., they don't, actually.


3. I don't see how "libertarians" were responsible for either one. The Eighties mess was mainly due to people with MBAs, etc., thinking they were smarter that the likes of Adam Smith. They tried again in the 1990s, in the belief that the laws of economics no longer applied. They found out how wrong they were, both times, and mostly lost their shirts in the process. I'm "hoping" that by now, they've finally figured out Clancy's First Law of Commerce. ("Just as there is no divine right of kings to rule, there is also no divine right of businessmen to make money"- Tom Clancy, Debt of Honor)

As for last year's banking crisis (or, as I prefer to call it, the "Community Organized Housing Bubble Bust"), The One, ACORN, and the Democrats own that one. Not a libertarian in the bunch, as far as I can tell.

cheers

eon

337 irongrampa  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:31:05pm

re: #329 OldLineTexan

Damn straight. Literally opened up a whole new world for me. Just have to learn to separate the shit from the shinola, and it's all good.

338 96RoadKing  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:31:26pm

re: #317 jet2nc

Too Liberal? That poll was probably taken before Al Franken was made the MN junior US senator. At one time MN had a license plate "Land of 10,000 Lakes". Now the MN license plates, or even the official congressional DC plates should have the motto " Land of Liberal Leaning Loonies". Minnesota is a beautiful state. The Mississippi River begins as a small stream there until it becomes a mighty river. How could the MN voters elect to congress a left wing liberal comedian who has an IQ lower than then average January temperature in Minneapolis? They probably did not.


Okay...as one of those who didn't vote for Freakin' Franken, I'd just like to note that this state has been leaning Left for about fifty years. The official motto was changed to "Minnesota - The State Where Absolutely Nothing Is Allowed" 20 years ago...

339 DEZes  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:31:30pm

re: #335 jcm

LOOK!

Over there A UFO!

Oh? then my rides here.
///

340 albusteve  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:31:30pm

re: #322 irongrampa

You are chanelling Kilgore again, I see.

RP is a minimal threat...lots of people share his ideas and always have...5-7$ a gallon for gas and chronic double digit inflation is a threat...we cannot supply our own energy, that is a threat...the big one looms and people hyperventilate about RP...I thinks it's humorous in a dark way

341 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:31:43pm
342 jcm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:32:13pm

re: #334 Eowyn2

Nonsense, we have way too many rich. We need to level the playing field.
Tear down all houses to 1200 sq ft.
Use extra bricks and wood to build everyone in the US a house.
Houses can be built on the acres surrounding the big houses.

Dont touch LA movie star houses, they need those
/

I for a teaching experience for the "less fortunate."

40 acres.
A mule.
A plow.
An axe.
Seed for first year.
A rifle.

343 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:32:26pm

re: #332 OldLineTexan

Then again, maybe he's a pennypincher ...

There are so many evil jokes I could make by pluralizing penny and removing an n...

344 nikis-knight  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:32:29pm

re: #319 OldLineTexan

All right, it's time for hyperbole!

/


It's been time for hyperbole for, like, a million years already!

345 Eowyn2  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:33:14pm

re: #283 J.D.

To the fitness center to care for my health.

check on mine while you're there

346 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:33:38pm

Exclusie video dramatization of the Larry Craig incident:

Youtube Video
347 callahan23  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:34:05pm

re: #342 jcm

I for a teaching experience for the "less fortunate."

40 acres.
A mule.
A plow.
An axe.
Seed for first year.
A rifle.

I happened to notice that the last part of that offer is particularly attractive to you.
;-)

348 brookly red  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:34:07pm

re: #342 jcm

I for a teaching experience for the "less fortunate."

40 acres.
A mule.
A plow.
An axe.
Seed for first year.
A rifle.


uhhhhh, what about beer?

349 96RoadKing  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:34:14pm

re: #331 lobo91

And that has nothing to do with the fact that the US health care system basically subsidizes those other "industrialiazed societies'" systems, right?

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that about 90% of all new drugs and medical technologies come from the US...

One of the benefits of a private system: RESEARCH. Socialized Medicine looks to cut costs everywhere, and one of the areas they view as a waste of money is trying to develop something new.

350 albusteve  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:34:42pm

re: #348 brookly red

uhhhhh, what about beer?

the seeds are hops

351 sngnsgt  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:35:43pm

re: #348 brookly red

Yeah, no beer, no deal.

352 brookly red  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:36:18pm

re: #350 albusteve

the seeds are hops

oooooh, that could work...

353 96RoadKing  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:36:24pm

re: #334 Eowyn2

Nonsense, we have way too many rich. We need to level the playing field.
Tear down all houses to 1200 sq ft.
Use extra bricks and wood to build everyone in the US a house.
Houses can be built on the acres surrounding the big houses.

Dont touch LA movie star houses, they need those
/


I think you mean tear down all houses over 1200 sq ft, but why stop there? You really only need 6' long x 4' wide x 6' deep!

354 unrealizedviewpoint  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:36:43pm

re: #315 SanFranciscoZionist

Bill O'Reilly has indicated that he's OK with al-Qaeda blowing up my hometown. I don't think he's conservative, I think he's a jerk.

I was minding my own business lurking away and I see the above statement and just needed to respond. Please provide proof he said, or indicated he'd be okay with al Qaeda blowing up SF.

355 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:36:47pm

re: #341 buzzsawmonkey

I have less sympathy. People remain true to their spouses because they have taken a vow; they may be attracted to other men or women, but do not act on that attraction merely because they gave their word some time ago.

The notion that simply because one has an attraction--whether to someone of the same or the opposite sex--one is compelled irresistibly to act on it, and being false to one's self if one doesn't--remains one of the most resoundingly unexamined, and uncritically accepted, presumptions to have invaded society in the last 30-odd years.

If I seemed to be justifying infidelity, that was not at all my intent.

But I do have to say that I have more sympathy for someone who can't deal with the fact that they're gay because it's not easy to come out, and much less easy if you're older, from a rural area and in a Conservative leaning church.

On the scale of cheating politicians, Craig actually gets some sympathy because of the circumstances. Ensign not so much. Nothing there he couldn't get at home.

356 KingKenrod  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:37:02pm

re: #349 96RoadKing

One of the benefits of a private system: RESEARCH. Socialized Medicine looks to cut costs everywhere, and one of the areas they view as a waste of money is trying to develop something new.

Exactly. Why waste money developing new treatments to extend life when old people just wind up costing the system more money, and they don't contribute anything anyway?

357 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:38:19pm

re: #333 Rancher

Bull, the oversight was there, the overseers like Dodd and Frank turned a blind eye. The regulations were watered down by liberals, beginning with Clinton, in order to make more Americans, especially minorities, homeowners. Here is my argument in more detail with clear historical data and examples.

Well stated. And Barney Frank drives on propogating the disaster by now pushing for the same lowered standards for condos. WTF is wrong with us? Why is he not under subpoena?
Oh.....I forgot. He's not a Republican. Let's go find some more dirt on Republicans.
/

358 Eowyn2  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:38:20pm

re: #341 buzzsawmonkey

arm swirling
whoo whoo whoo

359 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:38:44pm

re: #342 jcm

I for a teaching experience for the "less fortunate."

40 acres.
A mule.
A plow.
An axe.
Seed for first year.
A rifle.

That worked out so well in Zimbabwe.

/need I?

360 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:39:09pm

re: #349 96RoadKing

One of the benefits of a private system: RESEARCH. Socialized Medicine looks to cut costs everywhere, and one of the areas they view as a waste of money is trying to develop something new.

The next big goverment medical research grant is going to cover something about youth in Asia. Couldn't we be using that money right here in the good old US of A?

/

361 nikis-knight  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:39:31pm

re: #341 buzzsawmonkey

I similarly reject the notion that acting on your desires, aka being true to yourself (as if your sexuality is everything) needs come before being true to your vows.

362 7WTC-BALLER  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:39:38pm

I vote for showing 1.5-2 days worth of posts, especially due to time zone differences I think it would be the perfect compromise.

363 albusteve  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:39:41pm

re: #357 LGoPs

Well stated. And Barney Frank drives on propogating the disaster by now pushing for the same lowered standards for condos. WTF is wrong with us? Why is he not under subpoena?
Oh.....I forgot. He's not a Republican. Let's go find some more dirt on Republicans.
/

don't fuck with my Mike Jackson is DEAD! buzz....

364 Eowyn2  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:39:43pm

re: #342 jcm

I for a teaching experience for the "less fortunate."

40 acres.
A mule.
A plow.
An axe.
Seed for first year.
A rifle.

Will I have to pay a livestock tax on the two chickens and milch cow?

365 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:39:53pm

re: #341 buzzsawmonkey

I have less sympathy. People remain true to their spouses because they have taken a vow; they may be attracted to other men or women, but do not act on that attraction merely because they gave their word some time ago.

The notion that simply because one has an attraction--whether to someone of the same or the opposite sex--one is compelled irresistibly to act on it, and being false to one's self if one doesn't--remains one of the most resoundingly unexamined, and uncritically accepted, presumptions to have invaded society in the last 30-odd years.

It's called 'Do your own thing'...........
/

366 96RoadKing  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:40:03pm

re: #354 unrealizedviewpoint

I was minding my own business lurking away and I see the above statement and just needed to respond. Please provide proof he said, or indicated he'd be okay with al Qaeda blowing up SF.


If memory serves, he implied that would take al Qaeda blowing up SF for the Liberals to come to the opinion that we're at war with them.

367 nyc redneck  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:40:12pm

re: #312 LGoPs

You must not have looked hard enough. That's part of their devilish infiltration plan. To dress and act decently just to throw you off. They're everywheeeeere......
///

actually i might have seen one. she was a little old chinese woman abt. 70 yrs. old. she had a tiny sign that said impeach obama. it looked like a bumper sticker.
she kept screaming it over and over until she exhuasted herself. then she would rest a while and then start up again "impeeeech obama, impeeeech obama. impeeech obama, impeeeech, impeeeech.
she was cracking everyone up. it was hysterical.
thinking back, i'm sure she was a paul-bot.
and not just someone who might have lost her restaurant in china town from all the taxes you pay from being in business in this city.

368 KingKenrod  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:40:23pm

re: #354 unrealizedviewpoint

I was minding my own business lurking away and I see the above statement and just needed to respond. Please provide proof he said, or indicated he'd be okay with al Qaeda blowing up SF.

Sounds familiar. I think it was in context of SF being openly hostile to the military, perhaps with military recruiting or that naval ship they refused to dock & turn into a museum.

369 7WTC-BALLER  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:40:26pm

wow the thread is massively offtopic.
Barney Frank is a pig.

370 brookly red  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:40:28pm

re: #349 96RoadKing

One of the benefits of a private system: RESEARCH. Socialized Medicine looks to cut costs everywhere, and one of the areas they view as a waste of money is trying to develop something new.

awwwwww, stem cells.

371 albusteve  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:40:42pm

re: #361 nikis-knight

I similarly reject the notion that acting on your desires, aka being true to yourself (as if your sexuality is everything) needs come before being true to your vows.

I 'd rather die than go back on my word...that is all a person has

372 Eowyn2  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:40:46pm

re: #365 LGoPs

It's called 'Do your own thing'...........
/


"If it feels good, do it"

373 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:40:56pm

re: #366 96RoadKing

If memory serves, he implied that would take al Qaeda blowing up SF for the Liberals to come to the opinion that we're at war with them.

"They hit Buddy! Get 'em Girls!"

374 96RoadKing  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:41:38pm

re: #356 KingKenrod

Exactly. Why waste money developing new treatments to extend life when old people just wind up costing the system more money, and they don't contribute anything anyway?


I agree. Once they retire, they should just hand over all their assets and go sit on the woodpile 'til they die. They've outlived their usefulness at that point.

375 KingKenrod  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:41:54pm

re: #354 unrealizedviewpoint

I was minding my own business lurking away and I see the above statement and just needed to respond. Please provide proof he said, or indicated he'd be okay with al Qaeda blowing up SF.

Here it is:

Media Matters Video
376 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:42:04pm

I saw the dumbest bumper sticker today.

"No Third Term: Vote For Change"

I mean, WTF, don't they even know there are term limits, and Bush couldn't run even if he wanted to?

377 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:42:43pm

re: #356 KingKenrod

Exactly. Why waste money developing new treatments to extend life when old people just wind up costing the system more money, and they don't contribute anything anyway?

I just know I'm going to die before my parents.

378 ladycatnip  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:42:44pm

Helen Thomas hammers Gibbs over the WH's unprecedented control of the press! She is unhappy. Now this is a flying pig moment.

379 eon  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:42:54pm

re: #348 brookly red

uhhhhh, what about beer?

Brew your own.

/And learn to reload your own ammo for the rifle while it's fermenting.

cheers

eon

380 nikis-knight  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:43:15pm

re: #376 Alouette

I saw the dumbest bumper sticker today.

"No Third Term: Vote For Change"

I mean, WTF, don't they even know there are term limits, and Bush couldn't run even if he wanted to?


It's an implication that McCain = Bush.
Or,
They went to public school.

381 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:43:49pm

re: #355 ~Fianna

If I seemed to be justifying infidelity, that was not at all my intent.

But I do have to say that I have more sympathy for someone who can't deal with the fact that they're gay because it's not easy to come out, and much less easy if you're older, from a rural area and in a Conservative leaning church.

On the scale of cheating politicians, Craig actually gets some sympathy because of the circumstances. Ensign not so much. Nothing there he couldn't get at home.

Except that is not true, it's like saying that 'one size fits all' and assumes that all women are the same. This is not a defense of any philanderer. Every couple should live within the bounds of their commitment to one another.

382 96RoadKing  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:44:06pm

re: #360 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The next big goverment medical research grant is going to cover something about youth in Asia. Couldn't we be using that money right here in the good old US of A?

/


I seem to recall a report noting that very little is derived from Government research grants. Most results seem to come from the private sector ("you don't want to work in the Private Sector - they expect RESULTS!")

383 irongrampa  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:44:26pm

re: #340 albusteve

Yep, Paul is marginal, always was and always will be.
Like I said earlier, just gotta learn to separate the shit from the shinola.

384 VegasRick  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:44:35pm

re: #328 LGoPs

I prefer litotes.......

For some strange reason I find that word somewhat arousing.
/

385 eon  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:44:42pm

re: #374 96RoadKing

I agree. Once they retire, they should just hand over all their assets and go sit on the woodpile 'til they die. They've outlived their usefulness at that point.

Which is pretty much the attitude of the British National Health System.

/They just don't come right out and say it, is all.

cheers

eon

386 horse  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:44:45pm

re: #349 96RoadKing

One of the benefits of a private system: RESEARCH. Socialized Medicine looks to cut costs everywhere, and one of the areas they view as a waste of money is trying to develop something new.

Indeed, the incentive in socialized medicine for the patient to stop being a burden on the system is even greater than in private insurance. Private insurance needs to retain customers to stay in business, something they won't do if they are too stingy. Plus they have the incentive to come up with better and more efficient cures. Government will keep us from being a burden by denying service through excessively long wait times. New cures? Ha!

387 jcm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:44:55pm

re: #351 sngnsgt

Yeah, no beer, no deal.

Wow!

Tough crowd!

388 Teh Flowah  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:45:30pm

re: #11 Son of the Black Dog

Note from the video that the previous "Too Liberal" high of 45 percent was in 1994. What happened in 1994?

I don't know. What happened? Was the Republicans are too conservative number just as high leading to the Republican Revolution? Don't except the same thing when the level of disenchantment of Republicans so high.

re: #376 Alouette

I saw the dumbest bumper sticker today.

"No Third Term: Vote For Change"

I mean, WTF, don't they even know there are term limits, and Bush couldn't run even if he wanted to?

Where were you during the election season? The Democrats entire campaign was based around John McCain being Bush's third term. So before you go around calling them dumb for not knowing about term limits, maybe you should pay more attention during the Presidential elections.

By the way, this poll vindicates every Republican who said that they weren't conservative enough and that's why they lost the 2008 election.

HAHAHAHA, JUST KIDDING. Idiots.

389 brookly red  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:45:49pm

re: #387 jcm

Wow!

Tough crowd!

no beer, no peace dude.

390 horse  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:46:18pm

re: #364 Eowyn2

Will I have to pay a livestock tax on the two chickens and milch cow?

Only if they pass gas.

391 unrealizedviewpoint  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:46:57pm

re: #366 96RoadKing

If memory serves, he implied that would take al Qaeda blowing up SF for the Liberals to come to the opinion that we're at war with them.

re: #368 KingKenrod

Sounds familiar. I think it was in context of SF being openly hostile to the military, perhaps with military recruiting or that naval ship they refused to dock & turn into a museum.

I saw the segment also. To interpret it as he'd be okay with it stretches it into something he did not mean at all. Only MediaMatters folks could do that with a straight face, and doesn't belong amongst the comments here.

392 jcm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:47:38pm

re: #359 Alouette

That worked out so well in Zimbabwe.

/need I?

LOL!

But it did work in Zimbabwe with the *COUGH* white *COUGH* farmers the first time.
And here.

393 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:48:11pm
394 albusteve  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:48:15pm

re: #392 jcm

LOL!

But it did work in Zimbabwe with the *COUGH* white *COUGH* farmers the first time.
And here.

two words...
wheel barrrows

395 ladycatnip  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:48:42pm

#341 buzzsawmonkey

The notion that simply because one has an attraction--whether to someone of the same or the opposite sex--one is compelled irresistibly to act on it, and being false to one's self if one doesn't--remains one of the most resoundingly unexamined, and uncritically accepted, presumptions to have invaded society in the last 30-odd years.

Absolutely - unlike the rest of the animal kingdom, we can exercise choice, otherwise we're no different from dogs in heat.

396 jcm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:49:02pm

re: #389 brookly red

no beer, no peace dude.

I suppose barley and hop seed won't cut it?

397 Eowyn2  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:49:23pm

re: #355 ~Fianna

Breaking vows is breaking vows.
I also believe that marriage SHOULD be for a lifetime BUT understand that divorce is not necessarily evil and if you find you cannot be intimate with your partner, you need to leave the relationship PRIOR to screwing around.

398 unrealizedviewpoint  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:49:36pm

re: #375 KingKenrod

Here it is:

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

Looks as though I was right - MediaMatters. Whodathunkit?
c'mon, that not a statement that he's okay with it. he's making a point.

399 brookly red  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:49:52pm

re: #386 horse

Indeed, the incentive in socialized medicine for the patient to stop being a burden on the system is even greater than in private insurance. Private insurance needs to retain customers to stay in business, something they won't do if they are too stingy. Plus they have the incentive to come up with better and more efficient cures. Government will keep us from being a burden by denying service through excessively long wait times. New cures? Ha!

/ bring out yer dead, bring out yer dead...

400 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:50:02pm

re: #392 jcm

LOL!

But it did work in Zimbabwe with the *COUGH* white *COUGH* farmers the first time.
And here.

Indeed, it is called a "work ethic"

401 96RoadKing  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:50:19pm

re: #386 horse

Indeed, the incentive in socialized medicine for the patient to stop being a burden on the system is even greater than in private insurance. Private insurance needs to retain customers to stay in business, something they won't do if they are too stingy. Plus they have the incentive to come up with better and more efficient cures. Government will keep us from being a burden by denying service through excessively long wait times. New cures? Ha!


"Here, just take this pill, and the pain will go away. By the way, did you enjoy your Soylent Green today?"

402 Flyers1974  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:50:27pm

re: #376 Alouette

I saw the dumbest bumper sticker today.

"No Third Term: Vote For Change"

I mean, WTF, don't they even know there are term limits, and Bush couldn't run even if he wanted to?

The idea was that McCain would in essence, be the same as a third Bush term. This was political propaganda I think, meant to be taken literally. And an old trick, used by both parties.

403 jcm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:51:08pm

re: #399 brookly red

/ bring out yer dead, bring out yer dead...

I'm not dead!

404 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:51:22pm

re: #396 jcm

I suppose barley and hop seed won't cut it?


I tell you what, I will brew the alcohol, you grow the food, and we can trade......

405 eon  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:51:23pm

re: #364 Eowyn2

Will I have to pay a livestock tax on the two chickens and milch cow?

Yes. You'll also get hit with an excise tax if you more sensibly trade the mule for a horse, and/or wise up and buy a bull to go with the cow.

/Two horses, one of each sex, and a second cow along with the bull would be even smarter.

cheers

eon

406 Wendya  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:51:29pm

re: #8 Thanos

Very interesting results. The 7 percent who think the Republicans are "too liberal" are totally out of touch with America, and they are the ones nihilistically driving wedges to tear the party to splinter constituencies.

When it comes to spending, they can give the democrats a run for their money.

407 DEZes  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:51:32pm

re: #403 jcm

I'm not dead!

Yes you are.

408 nikis-knight  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:52:07pm

re: #393 buzzsawmonkey
So, you think that the expectation that one limits themselves to the 1/2 of the population of the world that they are attracted to rather than the 1 single person they committed to is a big change? C'mon, don't be stuck on tradition, let people be who they are, how does it hurt you?


/

409 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:52:14pm

re: #404 A Kiwi Infidel

I tell you what, I will brew the alcohol, you grow the food, and we can trade......

That's commerce you capitalist bastards, and WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!

410 96RoadKing  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:52:57pm

re: #403 jcm

I'm not dead!


"Quiet! You'll be stone dead in a moment!"

411 jcm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:52:57pm

re: #404 A Kiwi Infidel

I tell you what, I will brew the alcohol, you grow the food, and we can trade......

Wow!

There's a novel idea!

Sounds really good.

But I think that guy over there, names Gov or something, he wants some of both for not doing nuthing!

412 ladycatnip  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:53:24pm

#401 96RoadKing

"Here, just take this pill, and the pain will go away. By the way, did you enjoy your Soylent Green today?"

I was just thinking about Soylent Green the other day!

413 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:53:40pm

re: #409 CyanSnowHawk

That's commerce you capitalist bastards, and WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!


Bloody communist

414 nikis-knight  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:54:02pm

re: #413 A Kiwi Infidel

Bloody communist

But you repeat yourself.

415 Rancher  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:54:12pm

re: #357 LGoPs

Well stated. And Barney Frank drives on propogating the disaster by now pushing for the same lowered standards for condos. WTF is wrong with us? Why is he not under subpoena?
Oh.....I forgot. He's not a Republican. Let's go find some more dirt on Republicans.
/


I couldn't believe the condo position that Franks, along with his colleague Anthony Weiner, (no more jokes please), has taken. I think I first heard it on Rush and figured Rush was again demonstrating absurdity by being absurd. It is as if liberals want to out onion The Onion.

416 96RoadKing  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:54:14pm

BBL

417 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:54:29pm

re: #411 jcm

Wow!

There's a novel idea!

Sounds really good.

But I think that guy over there, names Gov or something, he wants some of both for not doing nuthing!

And probably the best of both, as well!

418 Eowyn2  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:54:50pm

re: #315 SanFranciscoZionist

Bill O'Reilly has indicated that he's OK with al-Qaeda blowing up my hometown. I don't think he's conservative, I think he's a jerk.

Hey, you know, if you want to ban military recruiting, fine, but I'm not going to give you another nickel of federal money. You know, if I'm the president of the United States, I walk right into Union Square, I set up my little presidential podium, and I say, "Listen, citizens of San Francisco, if you vote against military recruiting, you're not going to get another nickel in federal funds. Fine. You want to be your own country? Go right ahead."

And if Al Qaeda comes in here and blows you up, we're not going to do anything about it. We're going to say, look, every other place in America is off limits to you, except San Francisco. You want to blow up the Coit Tower? Go ahead.

I'm pretty sure he was being moronically Ironic
His statement is more of a "this is how ludicrous banning military recruiters is" than a "come bomb San Francisco cause we want you to"

I

419 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:55:10pm

re: #415 Rancher

I couldn't believe the condo position that Franks, along with his colleague Anthony Weiner, (no more jokes please)

Hey, you were the one that brought it up.

420 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:55:13pm

re: #403 jcm

I'm not dead!

Quiet, you'll be stone dead in a moment

421 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:55:38pm

re: #414 nikis-knight

But you repeat yourself.


If they come round my place they will, indeed, be bloody!

422 DEZes  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:55:45pm

re: #420 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Quiet, you'll be stone dead in a moment

I cant take him like that.

423 Flyers1974  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:56:07pm

re: #360 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The next big goverment medical research grant is going to cover something about youth in Asia. Couldn't we be using that money right here in the good old US of A?

/

/So let me get this straight, some young people in Asia support assisted suicide?

424 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:56:23pm

re: #404 A Kiwi Infidel

I tell you what, I will brew the alcohol, you grow the food, and we can trade......

Each of you give me 10% and I promise no one else will bother you.

THATS POLITICS!

425 irongrampa  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:56:25pm

kinda OT, talked to a guy who has an old Army surplus 8.8kw generator,have to look at it yet, but i think if it's viable we'll see about prepping to go off our grid, on a just in case basis.

We have adequate room for food production, the only thing I can't get around is medicine. Perhaps we could board a doctor?

426 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:57:23pm

re: #381 CyanSnowHawk

Except that is not true, it's like saying that 'one size fits all' and assumes that all women are the same. This is not a defense of any philanderer. Every couple should live within the bounds of their commitment to one another.

I'm making this argument really badly. Let me try and step back and explain what I'm trying to say better:

I guess what I have in my mind is that it would have been better for someone like Larry Craig to have been able to just decide freely what kind of relationship that he wanted from the beginning, if that makes sense.

Psychologically, it's got to be hard to form any kind of relationship at all when you have feelings that you can't or won't acknowledge. It's got to be hard on him because it makes him hate himself or at least part of himself (and from what I know about Craig's background, it's not even mild dislike, it's probably something closer to feeling like there's something so wrong and bad about you that you can't change and it's going to make the people around you hate you and eventually send you to Hell). It also has to be hell on his wife because what kind of marriage can you have when you know that no matter how hard you try to be a good and loving spouse, your husband is deeply unhappy and possibly only sort-of sexually attracted to you.

Trolling for random sex in bathrooms and bars isn't generally the way that healthy adults form relationships. There's something inside that's not only looking for sex, but looking for the most humiliating and disconnected sex possible.

People who cheat with prostitutes or co-workers have self-control issues. People who do things like what Craig did are deeply, incredibly self-hating. I have no sympathy for people who can't keep a promise. I do have sympathy for people who feel that something about them is that wrong and bad. I don't think that sexual preference is a choice. I think that people like Craig are pushed in to pretending to be something they're not because of a lot of stigma and baggage. What he did was wrong. But I do feel sympathy for him.

Does that make my point clearer?

427 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:57:25pm

re: #415 Rancher

I couldn't believe the condo position that Franks, along with his colleague Anthony Weiner, (no more jokes please), has taken. I think I first heard it on Rush and figured Rush was again demonstrating absurdity by being absurd. It is as if liberals want to out onion The Onion.

Yeah, but the really important thing for the American people to focus on is...........who's on American Idol.
/// Fuck

428 albusteve  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:57:32pm

re: #420 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Quiet, you'll be stone dead in a moment

pay attention

Youtube Video
429 callahan23  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:57:39pm

re: #425 irongrampa

kinda OT, talked to a guy who has an old Army surplus 8.8kw generator,have to look at it yet, but i think if it's viable we'll see about prepping to go off our grid, on a just in case basis.

We have adequate room for food production, the only thing I can't get around is medicine. Perhaps we could board a doctor?

Are you considering going John Galt?

430 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:57:54pm
431 jcm  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:58:06pm

re: #415 Rancher

I couldn't believe the condo position that Franks, along with his colleague Anthony Weiner, (no more jokes please), has taken. I think I first heard it on Rush and figured Rush was again demonstrating absurdity by being absurd. It is as if liberals want to out onion The Onion.

Frank and Wiener....

You ask for no more jokes......

That will cause terrible injuries! Bitten tongues, ruptures.....

432 Eowyn2  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:58:45pm

re: #396 jcm

I suppose barley and hop seed won't cut it?

got any good malting recipes?

433 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:59:08pm

re: #415 Rancher
Barney Frank doesn't have much reason to bemoan the beaten-down state of the market.
Frank moved most of his investments into local and municipal bonds last year, resulting in healthy gains for his portfolio.

Another Pig, more equal than others............

434 irongrampa  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 3:59:15pm

re: #429 callahan23

More and more, I'm afraid.The direction this country's going scares me badly.

435 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:00:13pm

re: #424 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Each of you give me 10% and I promise no one else will bother you.

THATS POLITICS!


More like extortion protectionism.

(bang......)

436 Eowyn2  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:00:17pm

re: #419 CyanSnowHawk

Hey, you were the one that brought it up.

barney is invested in condos?

437 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:00:31pm

re: #424 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Each of you give me 10% and I promise no one else will bother you.

THATS POLITICS!

......and I've got your e-mails and a video with you and the underage hooker..........
That's WINNING!

438 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:00:45pm

re: #435 A Kiwi Infidel

More like extortion protectionism.

(bang......)

QUIET YOU!

439 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:01:25pm

re: #426 ~Fianna

I got your point, I only had issue with the last line.

440 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:01:27pm

re: #438 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

QUIET YOU!


Or else?

441 nikis-knight  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:02:04pm

re: #426 ~Fianna


I guess what I have in my mind is that it would have been better for someone like Larry Craig to have been able to just decide freely what kind of relationship that he wanted from the beginning, if that makes sense.

I'm guessing you are a female, because you keep using "relationship" for "sex".
Believe it or not, guys can enjoy sex without having or wanting a relationship. It is a normal impluse, and yet still immoral to do so (with either sex).

re: #430 buzzsawmonkey

Understand this; I am not arguing against homosexual behavior, per se. I am merely pointing out that the bright-line distinction which claims people as "gay" or "not gay" is a fraudulent political construct, and that the idea that someone behaving in a manner which violates their vows to someone else does not, or should not, get a pass merely because the attraction for which they engage in the violation is same- rather than opposite-sex.


Aye, and I agree.

442 brookly red  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:02:23pm

re: #437 IslandLibertarian

......and I've got your e-mails and a video with you and the underage hooker..........
That's WINNING!

thats not a hooker, thats an intern, sheesh.

443 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:02:32pm

re: #440 A Kiwi Infidel

Or else?

I'll pull an Obama.

/rips off shirt

ADORE ME!

444 DEZes  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:03:15pm

re: #443 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'll pull an Obama.

/rips off shirt

ADORE ME!

I upchucked.

445 ShanghaiEd  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:03:41pm

re: #425 irongrampa

kinda OT, talked to a guy who has an old Army surplus 8.8kw generator,have to look at it yet, but i think if it's viable we'll see about prepping to go off our grid, on a just in case basis.

We have adequate room for food production, the only thing I can't get around is medicine. Perhaps we could board a doctor?

Only if the doctor is board certified.

446 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:04:14pm

re: #437 IslandLibertarian

......and I've got your e-mails and a video with you and the underage hooker..........
That's WINNING!

Not if I have my security chief pay you a visit first. "We don't have any idea how we got on the roof. Tragic."

447 Eowyn2  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:05:01pm

re: #403 jcm

I'm not dead!

its only a flesh wound

448 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:05:39pm

Klassy Konservatives.....
Group plans to launch ads comparing Obama to Hitler

A conservative lobby group is planning to launch an attack ad against President Barack Obama, in which the group compares the U.S. president to Adolf Hitler.

Our Country Deserves Better PAC plans to launch the TV ads on July 7. In the meantime, they've posted a sneak peek to YouTube.

"As the regime spun out of control, they labeled political opponents domestic terrorists, and warned of confrontations between such groups and government authorities," the preview ad begins.

"They proposed a civilian security force, and a Congressman warned it was exactly what Hitler did in Nazi Germany. Opposition heightened after voter fraud by the president's allies, including thousands of bogus voter registration," it continues.

"But wait -- these press reports aren't about Iran. They're about Barack Obama's administration right here in the U.S."

Youtube Video
449 Eowyn2  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:05:53pm

re: #437 IslandLibertarian

......and I've got your e-mails and a video with you and the underage hooker..........
That's WINNING!


I've got a picture of you on the grassy knoll
King Me

450 DEZes  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:06:13pm

re: #447 Eowyn2

its only a flesh wound

Now youve done it.


Youtube Video
451 Flyers1974  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:06:18pm

re: #445 ShanghaiEd

SE, How are you?

452 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:06:18pm

re: #443 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'll pull an Obama.

/rips off shirt

ADORE ME!


AAAAaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, you win!
(runs, screaming from property)

453 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:06:24pm

re: #444 DEZes

I upchucked.

Obviously I've overloaded you with my raw charisma and sexual magnetism.

Allow me to slowly turn in a circle while you bask in my majesty.

AHHHH, MAJESTY!

454 medaura18586  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:06:31pm

"Liberal" and "Conservative" are as useless and mind-warping labels as "Left" and "Right." No two people agree on what a "true liberal" or a "true conservative" is, but when people complain that Democrats and Republicans are too liberal and too conservative, respectively, what they are really saying is that they're too ideological, a conclusion that holds whatever one's elusive definition of these respective labels entails.

Personally, I am still burnt out from the presidential election, and if my job didn't require daily exposure to the vanguard of political punditry, I'd have long retired from politics entirely, and reverted to the blissful days of my teenage years, immersed entirely in literature and philosophy and not caring what goes on in the world. Election turnouts in this country indicate that my political misanthropy is shared by nearly half the voting population, even before this poll came out.

455 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:06:33pm

re: #393 buzzsawmonkey

What I am saying is that the question of whether someone "is gay" is the wrong question. There are many people who at one time or another experience a same-sex attraction, who also experience opposite-sex attraction. Politically, those who experience both are now lumped in as "gay"--merely because the gay-rights activists want to swell their demographic.

Well, why should this be? If a man marries a woman, and the man becomes interested in another woman, or the woman in another man, they are (or were) expected to disregard that attraction or interest because they had made a commitment--at least, until that commitment was formally dissolved. Why should the expectation be any different if the man becomes attracted to another man, or the woman to another woman? Is the same-sex attraction entitled to an exemption because it is stronger than the opposite-sex attraction? I think not.

The pressure now is for people to "come out"--i.e., to commit, not to a partner, but to one attraction over the other. The establishment of a public subculture makes that commitment to one behavior over the other much easier, initially--and harder to revoke, should one subsequently wish to.

I think this is veering in to another set of issues.

I completely agree with your last paragraph. I'm bisexual myself, and there's a lot of irritating 'pick a team' stuff from both gay/lesbian people that I know and from straight people. Although less from straight people because I'm female. Female bisexuality is somehow cool these days, so if it comes up, men tend to give my husband a high-5 and snicker.

I made the whole point I was trying to make better (at least I hope better) in another response. It's not that people in Craig's situation should be excused. It's that they should be encouraged or at least allowed to figure out what kind of relationship they want and with whom without people making judgments.

I suppose, to throw in another whole big can of worms - how would people have reacted if any of our cheating politicians stepped forward and said, well, we've agreed to an open relationship?

As for me, I'm a social libertarian. I don't care if there are 2, 10 or 200 people in a relationship or what plumbing any of them have as long as everyone's able to consent, is happy with the situation and have completely agreed to it. I have a feeling that that view isn't going to be very common, either here or in the rest of the world. :)

Good discussion, though. I love the fact that generally people can seriously disagree here and keep it to the point and on the topic.

456 eon  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:06:41pm

re: #425 irongrampa

kinda OT, talked to a guy who has an old Army surplus 8.8kw generator,have to look at it yet, but i think if it's viable we'll see about prepping to go off our grid, on a just in case basis.

We have adequate room for food production, the only thing I can't get around is medicine. Perhaps we could board a doctor?

For starters, try this;

U.S. Army Emergency War Surgery Manual- 2004 Edition

It's a Zip file, but it's also a free download.

cheers

eon

457 DEZes  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:07:07pm

re: #453 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Obviously I've overloaded you with my raw charisma and sexual magnetism.

Allow me to slowly turn in a circle while you bask in my majesty.

AHHHH, MAJESTY!

Hurl alert.

458 nikis-knight  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:07:23pm

re: #448 Killgore Trout

What an unprecidented lowering of American discourse.
/
Not denying it is a stupid, vile act, though. Neverheard of them, though, and it doesn't exactly take a lot of supporters to buy space on youtube. heh

459 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:07:55pm

re: #456 eon

For starters, try this;

U.S. Army Emergency War Surgery Manual- 2004 Edition

It's a Zip file, but it's also a free download.

cheers

eon

Draw up plans and a schedule of sites to loot in an emergency.

460 Eowyn2  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:08:32pm

re: #443 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'll pull an Obama.

/rips off shirt

ADORE ME!

gettin a bit soft in the midrift aint you?

461 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:08:34pm

I'm taking up tennis

462 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:09:01pm

re: #397 Eowyn2

Breaking vows is breaking vows.
I also believe that marriage SHOULD be for a lifetime BUT understand that divorce is not necessarily evil and if you find you cannot be intimate with your partner, you need to leave the relationship PRIOR to screwing around.

Absolutely. I don't want understanding to be mistaken for condoning his behavior.

463 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:09:16pm

re: #457 DEZes

Hurl alert.

I'll take your dry heaves as a sign of your undying affection.

464 unrealizedviewpoint  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:09:18pm

re: #448 Killgore Trout

Klassy Konservatives.....
Group plans to launch ads comparing Obama to Hitler

We deserve better than "Our Country Deserves Better PAC".

465 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:09:32pm

re: #460 Eowyn2

gettin a bit soft in the midrift aint you?

ADORE!

466 DEZes  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:10:08pm

re: #463 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'll take your dry heaves as a sign of your undying affection.

Sorry about your shoes.

467 callahan23  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:10:12pm

re: #461 A Kiwi Infidel

I'm taking up tennis

Either that's a fauxtography or I am at a loss of words ....

468 legalpad  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:10:22pm

re: #461 A Kiwi Infidel

I'm taking up tennis

Take up Physics

469 eon  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:10:58pm

re: #459 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Draw up plans and a schedule of sites to loot in an emergency.

In the real world, that gets you shot.

On the net... well, what do you think I do all day now? ;-)

I only take free stuff, I swear.

/But boy, some of the stuff that's free....


cheers

eon

470 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:11:36pm

re: #442 brookly red

thats not a hooker, thats an intern, sheesh.

It's too big to be an intern.
I have a very bad feeling about this.
Turn the ship around.
Yeah. I think you're right...

471 medaura18586  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:12:14pm

re: #448 Killgore Trout

Klassy Konservatives.....
Group plans to launch ads comparing Obama to Hitler

[Video]

Yawn... if someone could be found willing and eager to compare Charles Johnson here, a mere blogger, to Hitler in the bunker (you know who, I won't name the Beetlejuice lest he get alerted to us speaking of him), I'm sure someone would be easily found eager to do the same to Obama. It's just a sad sign of the debasement of political discourse -- not endemic to any of the two parties.

472 callahan23  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:12:19pm

It's become a boob thread.

473 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:12:40pm

re: #467 callahan23

Either that's a fauxtography or I am at a loss of words ....

It aint fauxtography, her name is Simona Halep, you can check for yourself.

474 DEZes  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:13:45pm

re: #461 A Kiwi Infidel

I'm taking up tennis

How come she has 2 black eyes?

475 Kragar  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:14:16pm

re: #469 eon

In the real world, that gets you shot.

Nah, I plan to loot liberals.

/

476 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:14:29pm

re: #461 A Kiwi Infidel

I'm taking up tennis

Wow. That must be dangerous.

477 DEZes  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:14:35pm

re: #472 callahan23

It's become a boob thread.

Better nip it in the bud.

478 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:14:38pm

re: #473 A Kiwi Infidel

It aint fauxtography, her name is Simona Halep, you can check for yourself.

I'd be more than willing to offer her some halep with that serve.....

479 VegasRick  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:14:52pm

re: #473 A Kiwi Infidel

It aint fauxtography, her name is Simona Halep, you can check for yourself.

I couldn't Halep but notice.

480 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:14:58pm

re: #472 callahan23

It's become a boob thread.

I was sick of the communists, the polititions and the extortionists taking over. We needed a distraction. I think it worked.

481 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:15:21pm

re: #430 buzzsawmonkey

Understand this; I am not arguing against homosexual behavior, per se. I am merely pointing out that the bright-line distinction which claims people as "gay" or "not gay" is a fraudulent political construct, and that the idea that someone behaving in a manner which violates their vows to someone else does not, or should not, get a pass merely because the attraction for which they engage in the violation is same- rather than opposite-sex.

Homosexual as an identifier is only about 150 years old or so.

Of course, so is the notion of marital fidelity, especially amongst the wealthy. It was generally more or less accepted that men would have mistresses. Even up to the 1960s, no one called Kennedy out because no one really saw anything abberent about his behavior.

482 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:15:29pm

re: #472 callahan23

It's become a boob thread.

If mammary serves we haven't had one of those in a few days.......

483 legalpad  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:15:36pm

re: #472 callahan23

It's become a boob thread.

Whatever do you mean?

484 brookly red  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:16:01pm

re: #475 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nah, I plan to loot liberals.

/

turnabout is fair play.

485 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:16:01pm

re: #479 VegasRick

I couldn't Halep but notice.

Beatcha!. Ha!
*sticks tongue out*
:)

486 horse  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:16:58pm

re: #461 A Kiwi Infidel

I'm taking up tennis

Let me guess, you will be focusing on your doubles strategy.

487 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:16:59pm

I've done all my errands. I have enough food and booze so I won't have to leave the house for a week. I hate holiday weekends. Amateur drunks drivin' around whoopin' it up. Just not safe to be out and about.

488 irongrampa  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:17:10pm

re: #473 A Kiwi Infidel

Holy crap.

489 eon  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:17:14pm

re: #475 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nah, I plan to loot liberals.

/

Not me. BMWs and quiche aren't real high on my "must-have" list if it goes Sierra Hotel Tango Fox.

/ more like "a '91 Ford Bronco (which I'm looking for right now, actually) and a lot of MREs"

cheers

eon

490 VegasRick  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:18:22pm

re: #485 LGoPs

Beatcha!. Ha!
*sticks tongue out*
:)

Yep. (I just looked a little longer).

491 DEZes  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:18:32pm

re: #482 LGoPs

If mammary serves we haven't had one of those in a few days.......

Its a bust!

492 ShanghaiEd  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:18:49pm

re: #451 Flyers1974

SE, How are you?

Hey, Flyers! Not bad. Abiding in the Deep South heat. How's things on the coast?

493 DEZes  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:19:02pm

re: #490 VegasRick

Yep. (I just looked a little longer).

You have a lil drool on your chin.

494 3 wood  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:19:34pm

Good evening.

The market made some very modest gains today in light trading as the official numbers are due tomorrow on unemployment.

Speaking of which:
Job losses in June could top May's 345,000


The slow but steady moderation in job losses from earlier this year may come to a screeching halt in June, economists said Wednesday.

Many Wall Street economists now believe that the decline in June nonfarm payroll employment should top the 345,000 job losses recorded in May, but still be significantly below the 504,000 jobs cut in April.

The government issues its monthly report on employment on Thursday, one day ahead of the normal release due to observance of the July 4th holiday on Friday.

Mike Moran, chief economist at Daiwa Securities America in New York, said that some special factors limited job losses in May and overall economic conditions could not sustain the low number in June.

Anna Piretti, economist at BNP Paribas, forecast a 400,000 drop in payrolls in June.

"We now expect the pace of contraction in non-farm payrolls to worsen slightly in June, suggesting conditions in the labor market remain fragile," Piretti said.

Steve Ricchiuto, economist at Mizuho Securities USA Inc, said that optimists have read too much into the sideways drift in recent jobless claims data. In a deep recession, declines in jobless claims may not signal a turning point, he said.


Where's that 150,000 jobs that Obama claimed to have created/saved?

495 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:19:44pm

re: #491 DEZes

Its a bust!

If I have to step away for a few minutes you will keep me abreast of developments, won't you?

496 ArmyWife  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:20:25pm

re: #493 DEZes

Isn't she 18 or something? Dirty old men. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

oh, and hi!

497 DEZes  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:21:25pm

re: #495 LGoPs

If I have to step away for a few minutes you will keep me abreast of developments, won't you?

Implant that to our future projects.

498 VegasRick  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:21:34pm

re: #493 DEZes

You have a lil drool on your chin.

"It's just a little ice cream"
*obscure chimp/penguin joke

499 legalpad  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:21:38pm

re: #473 A Kiwi Infidel

It aint fauxtography, her name is Simona Halep, you can check for yourself.

Checking . . .

500 DEZes  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:22:12pm

re: #496 ArmyWife

Isn't she 18 or something? Dirty old men. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

oh, and hi!

Who you callin old?
Young whipper snapper.

501 ArmyWife  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:22:31pm

Calif. Rep. Waxman hospitalized after fainting

I hope all is well, despite my political differences with this man.

502 legalpad  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:22:35pm

re: #496 ArmyWife

Isn't she 18 or something? Dirty old men. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

oh, and hi!

How You doing?

503 Flyers1974  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:22:42pm

re: #492 ShanghaiEd

Not so bad here, temp-wise.

504 DEZes  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:22:55pm

re: #498 VegasRick

"It's just a little ice cream"
*obscure chimp/penguin joke

I heard it about a snow mobile, and a blown seal.

505 eon  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:22:58pm

re: #494 3 wood

Good evening.

The market made some very modest gains today in light trading as the official numbers are due tomorrow on unemployment.

Speaking of which:
Job losses in June could top May's 345,000


Where's that 150,000 jobs that Obama claimed to have created/saved?

All in the new hires to regulate the carbon footprints of what's left of American industry?

/Meaning full employment for Birkenstocked Berkeley PoliSci majors wearing "Hug a Whale- Harpoon a Capitalist" buttons

cheers

eon

506 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:23:43pm

re: #441 nikis-knight

I'm guessing you are a female, because you keep using "relationship" for "sex".
Believe it or not, guys can enjoy sex without having or wanting a relationship. It is a normal impluse, and yet still immoral to do so (with either sex).

Believe it or not, so can women. :)

I made the distinction between what I was talking about in another post, but I'm not sure if you're reading all of them. I don't think that Craig wants to be married to a woman. Actually, I think Craig probably wants more than anything not to feel the way that he does, but that's not because there's anything wrong with being the way he is (at least in my opinion) but because he's been made to feel that there is something terribly wrong with the way that he is.

That level of disconnect in your head has to be really painful, which is why he's not at all seeking out anything that resembles healthy sexual activity.

I think we're considering a person who's been forced to hate themselves over something they can't change. That isn't a good way to form any kind of healthy relationship, whether it's a committed one or an agreed-upon one night stand. He's seeking to humiliate himself and his sex partners. It wasn't fun, and I doubt it was all that enjoyable. It might have even felt good at the time, but the disgust afterward probably doesn't.

507 VegasRick  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:24:09pm

re: #504 DEZes

I heard it about a snow mobile, and a blown seal.

Yep.

508 itellu3times  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:24:09pm

party party, what is party?

gimme candidate(s)

509 ArmyWife  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:24:21pm

re: #502 legalpad

Good! I'm sitting in my kitchen, looking out the picture window over my pond with little fishies jumping around. I've a lot to be thankful for.

510 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:25:01pm

re: #380 nikis-knight

It's an implication that McCain = Bush.
Or,
They went to public school.

Yeah well, Obama = Carter + Clinton. So he just got elected to a 4th term.

511 DEZes  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:25:02pm

re: #509 ArmyWife

Good! I'm sitting in my kitchen, looking out the picture window over my pond with little fishies jumping around. I've a lot to be thankful for.

Awe pond kitties.

512 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:25:46pm
513 DEZes  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:26:19pm

Open thread-------->

514 legalpad  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:27:39pm

re: #509 ArmyWife

Good! I'm sitting in my kitchen, looking out the picture window over my pond with little fishies jumping around. I've a lot to be thankful for.

Glad to hear it. Doing pretty good here too.

515 VegasRick  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:28:18pm

re: #513 DEZes

Open thread-------->

See you there.

516 ArmyWife  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:28:28pm

re: #511 DEZes

oh that made me laugh and I had to explain it to my 10 year old, you know, the one who is going to take over the world? She says "Sea kittens? Good grief, someone needs a reality infusion". Yes, she used those words.

517 MandyManners  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:28:32pm

re: #512 buzzsawmonkey

Sex was considered off limits for public discussion.


We've come a long way, baby.

518 3 wood  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:28:56pm

There are some good signs in the economy:
U.S. Economy: Manufacturing Shrank Least Since August

Manufacturing in the U.S. shrank at the slowest pace since August 2008 and pending sales of existing homes advanced for a fourth month, underscoring signs the economy began to stabilize in the second quarter.

The Institute for Supply Management’s factory index rose in June for a sixth straight month, to 44.8; readings less than 50 signal contraction. The National Association of Realtors said the number of Americans signing contracts for existing homes increased 0.1 percent in May after a 7.1 percent gain.


...and some not so good signs.


Construction Spending in the U.S. Decreased 0.9 Percent in May

Spending on U.S. construction projects fell in May for the fourth time in five months, a sign that a rebound from the housing recession will be slow to develop.

The 0.9 percent decrease was more than forecast and followed a revised 0.6 percent gain the prior month, according to data from the Commerce Department today in Washington. Total residential construction fell 3.5 percent.

Residential real-estate remains in a slump as foreclosures add to the glut of homes on the market and discourage builders, while commercial developers are reluctant to take on new projects until demand picks up. Still, other recent reports indicate the worst of the declines in homebuilding may be over and there are signs the economy is stabilizing.

519 DEZes  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:29:14pm

re: #516 ArmyWife

oh that made me laugh and I had to explain it to my 10 year old, you know, the one who is going to take over the world? She says "Sea kittens? Good grief, someone needs a reality infusion". Yes, she used those words.

I like your kid already.

520 DEZes  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:29:59pm

re: #517 MandyManners

We've come a long way, baby.

Now its Mandatory. ;)

521 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:30:03pm
522 ArmyWife  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:30:10pm

re: #512 buzzsawmonkey

Great post. I was going to say Kennedy wasn't called out because of the sense of politeness and decorum. Oh for those days. You said it much, much better!

523 horse  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:30:48pm

re: #494 3 wood

Actually May had 485,000 job losses. (June Job Losses Article) Things are much worse than what is being generally published, and are getting worse. In addition to the huge job loss figures, the hours worked for those partly employed continue to drop. There is nothing stimulating job creation, but plenty forcing job reduction.

If this economic downward spiral of death continues, there will be another cliff to fall off in the not too distant future. Then with significantly less tax income for the government to spend, and no one to buy their worthless notes, the federal government will just start printing money. That is when major inflation will hit and your savings will devalue some more. Dark days ahead, be prepared.

524 eon  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:32:16pm

re: #516 ArmyWife

oh that made me laugh and I had to explain it to my 10 year old, you know, the one who is going to take over the world? She says "Sea kittens? Good grief, someone needs a reality infusion". Yes, she used those words.

I hereby nominate that for a rotating title. :-)

And with that, I must retire for the evening. Early morning in the morning.

Good night, Lizards.

Sleep tight.

cheers

eon

525 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:32:20pm

re: #483 legalpad

Whatever do you mean?

My computer didnt like your link

526 medaura18586  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:32:24pm

re: #53 MJ

When liberals raise children:

Keeping the Gender of a 2-Year-Old Secret
By LISA BELKIN

[Link: parenting.blogs.nytimes.com...]

Nice. Raise your child as if he/she were a social experiment.

That sounds kinda cool actually. But as soon as the child is old enough to use public restrooms, the gig will be up. And that would happen at a tender enough age that the child's gender-neutral upbringing up to that point will be of little to no influence in his/her future. Any societal gender-types the parents feel are too constraining don't begin to make much of an impact until later in life.

527 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:32:46pm

re: #512 buzzsawmonkey

I agree with your first sentence/paragraph, and have in fact made the same point--that "homosexual" as a distinct classification is a very new thing--in other threads.

Marital fidelity--as an ideal, at least--has a much longer provenance; if mistresses were socially acceptable, sort of, as an institution, they were at the same time not something it was acceptable to publicly flaunt, unless, perhaps, one was royalty.

Kennedy was not "called out" for his infidelities because--hard as it may be to believe nowadays--sexual behavior was considered personal a mere 50 years ago, and not something that one mentioned even when savaging a political opponent. It was also something that would not be considered fit to appear in what used to be called "a family newspaper."

Joseph Welch's famous exchange during the Army-McCarthy hearings, in reference to a doctored photograph of McCarthy's former aide G. David Schine, "Do you think this came from a pixie?" to which McCarthy replied, "What is a pixie?" and Welch answered, "A pixie is closely related to a fairy, Senator," was famous because it was a veiled--though perfectly comprehensible in the euphemisms of the day--reference to the homosexuality of Roy Cohn, and the rumors of McCarthy's own leanings in that direction. It was a warning by Welch to McCarthy that Welch had the goods on him, and he'd better behave. But that was as far as such things went back then--and even that would not have occurred were it a matter of heterosexual, rather than homosexual, behavior. Sex was considered off limits for public discussion.

Interesting about the Welch thing. I hadn't heard about that.

I think we should go back to that style of handling things like this. Marital fidelity is a good ideal, but studies show that it's also one that people have a lot of problems with. Making it front page news isn't helping that, at all.

People make mistakes. How those mistakes get handled should, barring obvious large transgressions like rape, murder, etc., be handled by the people that have been effected by the situation.

528 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:33:24pm

re: #486 horse

Let me guess, you will be focusing on your doubles strategy.


Indeed, I will certainly have my hands full strategising

529 legalpad  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:37:17pm

re: #525 A Kiwi Infidel

My computer didnt like your link

Tested even your copy of it. It takes a minute to load but it worked on the old Firefox 3.0.11. It's a big page.

530 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:40:05pm

re: #529 legalpad

Tested even your copy of it. It takes a minute to load but it worked on the old Firefox 3.0.11. It's a big page.


Thanks for that, I will retry.

531 wiffersnapper  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:48:14pm

So the Dems are setting themselves up for defeat next year, and the Republicans are punting/using Ron Paul. EPIC FAIL.

532 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 4:54:21pm

Hey Lizards!

How is Goldilocks? Has she found the party that is just right?

533 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 5:06:00pm

re: #393 buzzsawmonkey

What I am saying is that the question of whether someone "is gay" is the wrong question. There are many people who at one time or another experience a same-sex attraction, who also experience opposite-sex attraction. Politically, those who experience both are now lumped in as "gay"--merely because the gay-rights activists want to swell their demographic.

Hmmm... it just occurred to me that BuzzSawMonkey's "initials" -- namely, B.S.M. -- could also stand for something else.

534 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 5:08:43pm

re: #11 Son of the Black Dog

Note from the video that the previous "Too Liberal" high of 45 percent was in 1994. What happened in 1994?

Socialist Healthcare!

535 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 5:09:15pm
536 kansas  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 5:10:09pm

Obama has saved or created how many jobs? None? Shit.
[Link: online.wsj.com...]

537 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 5:14:17pm

What I posted on the NY Times blog about the Swedish couple with the "genderless" kid -- responding to another commenter who agreed with me that gender identity is mostly hardwired by nature:

"Give me a brightly colored doll, a toy truck and a ball and I’ll tell you what gender that child is."

I [meaning me, Throbert -- ed.] would suggest, rather: Give the child a brightly-colored doll of indeterminate age and gender, and then observe closely: Does the child treat the doll more like a "baby," or more like an "action figure"?

I'm speaking as a dude who enjoyed playing with my sister's Barbie dolls when I was a young boy -- yet I tended to play with Barbie in a very different way than my sister did.

Unlike my sister, I didn't give a damn about dressing Barbie up in wedding gowns and marrying her to Winnie the Pooh. The appeal of Barbie, to me, was that she was totally waterproof (unlike my stuffed animals) and highly impact-resistant (unlike my Six Million Dollar Man doll -- although he was of the same proportions as Barbie, I could tell that he was made of more brittle plastic, and I was afraid that his bionic mechanisms would break if he should happen to fall from our fifth-floor balcony in a tragic rope-climbing accident). But Barbie could rappel off the balcony or have a "Poseidon Adventure" in the bathtub and be none the worse for the wear.

I should mention that the Barbie-sized, dressable GI Joes had gone out of production when I was of the appropriate age, in the late '70s and early '80s. Instead, GI Joe had been shrunk to a 3-inch action figure -- which was cool, in a way, but you couldn't change his identity and mission by changing his clothes, as with the earlier 12-inch GI-joes. (I'm 100% certain that if the old-school GI-Joes -- which were more durable than the Steve Austin doll -- had been available to me, it would never have occurred to me to "borrow" my sister's Barbies.)

538 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 5:38:14pm
539 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 5:44:05pm

re: #535 buzzsawmonkey

Hmmm... it just occurred to me that BuzzSawMonkey's "initials" -- namely, B.S.M. -- could also stand for something else.

Doubtless, since we only have 26 letters in the alphabet. But I'm not sure precisely what you have in mind.

Never mind, it was presumptuous of me. I just had this brief thought that you might appreciate if someone else played the role of icebreaker.

But I must've assumed wrong. Pardon.

540 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 5:49:33pm
541 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 6:02:21pm
542 EaterOfFood  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 6:02:44pm

re: #448 Killgore Trout

Klassy Konservatives.....
Group plans to launch ads comparing Obama to Hitler

[Video]

Hitler was a lousy painter.
Obama was a lousy poet.

All I can think of.

543 cowbellallen  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 6:35:28pm

The Republican Party does need to move further to the right. People in the middle don't know what they believe in and usually don't have good arguments for believing what they do. There is no base. There is nothing to build upon or a way to rally people.

544 FrogMarch  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 7:04:02pm

I forced myself to listen to a snip of Air America today.
The guy behind the microphone said that 'health care must be either controlled by government or non-profits'. The dems aren't too liberal - they are full on leftist. Full on fascist.

545 FrogMarch  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 7:04:36pm

I thought Rudy was pretty in-the-middle. Too bad the leftists trashed him. He's a good man.

546 flyers1974  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 7:14:32pm

re: #545 FrogMarch

I thought Rudy was pretty in-the-middle. Too bad the leftists trashed him. He's a good man.

Rudy's loss had nothing to do with "leftists." He lost because he was not conservative enough for "rightist" primary voters - he is "pro-gay," he switched his position on guns, and was not trusted on immigration by the right. (Check out some M. Malkin re: Rudy, for example) The left had nothing to do with his loss. In fact, he didn't try in the early primaries becasue he held out hopes for winning big in Florida - less conservative than Iowa, SC, etc... . By then however, it was too late, he was toast.

547 flyers1974  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 7:19:16pm

re: #546 flyers1974

Rudy was mainly trashed by the left for allegedly being a one-trick pony - 9-11. I think the right started to trash him once the start of the primaries drew near, regarding his pro-choice position, and the other issues mentioned in the previous post.

548 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 7:21:44pm

This is pretty good from Drudge, it borders on the mystical:

[...]
All told, Mexican officials in 2008 asked federal agents to trace the origins of more than 7,500 firearms recovered at crime scenes in Mexico. Most of them were traced back to Texas, California and Arizona.

So the Fed's were able to trace the weapons back to the US:

...because, officials say, that while Houston is the number one point of origin for weapons traced back to the United States from Mexico, the government can’t compile databases on gun owners under federal law.

Ok...so I'm plain stupid. Would someone please explain to me how the Fed's can trace weapons back to US, let alone Houston, without a database?

...'cause Mexico said the weapons came from the US, Houston, because the Mexican's have a database of our weapons and told the Fed's? Something doesn't sit right.

549 FrogMarch  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 7:49:27pm

re: #546 flyers1974

Certainly - but the left came at him pretty hard too.
I listen to what the far left says - and they smeared him pretty bad; With all sorts of really nasty accusations I'd never heard before.

550 Flyers1974  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 8:13:39pm

re: #549 FrogMarch

Certainly - but the left came at him pretty hard too.
I listen to what the far left says - and they smeared him pretty bad; With all sorts of really nasty accusations I'd never heard before.

I think the conventional wisdom was that Rudy would have been a very tough candidate to beat - if he made it through the Republican primary. He'd get all the Republican voters who were not social conservatives, plus some social conservatives who would vote for him as the lesser of two evils. He'd get his share of independents and conservative Democrats. If you asked me were he went wrong (as far as what was in his power to control) I'd say (1) failing to take the states prior to Florida seriously, especially NH (although if he won using this method he'd be called a genius) and (2) not laying off 9-11. The link between him and 9-11 was already there and impossible to destroy. He didn't need to remind people. So I think he opened himself up to the "one-trick pony" attack, when he had a lot of other things to go upon, i.e., running NYC, crime, etc... . The left came at him, true, but I don't think they were focused on him - the thought being he'll never make it through due to abortion, mistrust on guns, etc....

551 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 9:04:18pm

re: #541 buzzsawmonkey

I'm not offended, I'm confused. Clearly, the letters are supposed to stand for something, but I'm missing the reference, whatever it might be.

I was thinking along the lines of "Bi Single Male" -- I mean, I don't know what your personal story is, but I know that you're well-read on so-called "gay culture" and that you're also familiar with the "continuum of bisexuality" concept and the Kinsey Scale.

So I suddenly thought to myself, "duh, Throbert, maybe buzzsawmonkey wishes it to be known that he's not totally hetero, but he's very shy about broaching the topic" -- hence my "icebreaker" comment.

552 SuperdaveTWC  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 9:30:10pm

Please help me.

Does "too conservative" mean "too much liberty, too much individual freedom, too much adherence to the Supreme Law Of The Land (i.e. the US Constitution), too much national security, too much support for liberty with governments operating under the Rule Of Law worldwide, too many checks and balances against tyranny, etc.?"

553 HarryTheHawk  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 9:17:16am

re: #552 SuperdaveTWC

hmmm...based on these numbers and recent polls, you are likely considered "too conservative" if you are simply pro-life.

554 aaron's rantblog  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 9:29:14am

The real result of the polling is that Americans are, themselves, less tolerant.

The new moderation: Everyone more extreme than me is a fanatic. Everyone less extreme than me is an apostate.


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