Major Military Campaign in Afghanistan

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
World • Thu Jul 2, 2009 at 3:21 pm PDT • Views: 255

A massive military offensive is under way in Afghanistan against the Taliban.

NAWA, Afghanistan (AP) — U.S. Marines suffered their first casualties of a massive new military campaign Thursday as they engaged in sporadic gunbattles along 55 miles of Taliban-controlled heartland in southern Afghanistan.

One Marine was killed and several others were injured or wounded on the first full day of the assault, the largest military operation in Afghanistan since the fall of Taliban government in 2001.

The offensive will test the Obama administration’s new strategy of holding territory and letting the Afghan government sink roots in Helmand province. The insurgency has proven particularly resilient in this area, where foreign troops have never before operated in such large numbers.

President Barack Obama told The Associated Press in an interview Thursday that he has a “very narrow definition of success when it comes to our national security interests” in the region. “And that is that al-Qaida and its affiliates cannot set up safe havens from which to attack Americans.”

And Long War Journal has some disturbing news from eastern Afghanistan: Haqqani Network captures US soldier in Afghanistan.

The Haqqani Network has captured a US soldier who was based in the eastern Afghan province of Paktika. The soldier, who has not been identified, had reportedly been captured after walking off of his small outpost.

The US military has confirmed a solider has been missing since June 30 and believes he has been captured by the Taliban.

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493 comments

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1 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:23:14pm
2 callahan23  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:23:28pm

Oh, please let him be safe.

3 Randall Gross  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:24:17pm

Strangely enough, Afghanistan is one of the few countries in the world where our President gets foreign policy and military strategy right. I can't agree with him on Israel, South America, North Korea, Iran, or many other spots, but here he is doing what's needed.

4 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:24:22pm

Afghanistan is NOT like Iraq. Iraq once was a civilized place and thus has some history of being civilized. Not so in Afghanistan. Ralph peters wrote a nice piece on this in today's New York Post. This may become Obama's Vietnam.

5 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:24:39pm

Break things real good troops, we love ya.
My heart bleeds for the missing soldier.

6 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:25:05pm

re: #2 callahan23

Oh, please let him be safe.


I second that ... G-d be with him.

7 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:25:10pm
8 brookly red  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:25:26pm

An offensive makes good sense now considering the situation in Pakistan, & I hope for the safety of our troops.

9 hous bin pharteen  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:25:51pm

US troops are fighting a war against "evil". But they sure as hell wont be popular when they comeback. The plague from San Fran is spreading. GITMO anyone?

10 kawfytawk  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:25:52pm

Fox news reported the soldier left the base without permission and alone...what could have possessed him to do that?

11 Randall Gross  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:26:28pm

re: #1 Iron Fist

To the troops - good luck and good hunting!

It's the US Marines, they should do pretty good compared to past campaigns which were thin bands of us with air support and bolstering by ANA forces. With the Marines in force, the Taliban are in trouble.

12 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:26:59pm

re: #3 Thanos

Strangely enough, Afghanistan is one of the few countries in the world where our President gets foreign policy and military strategy right. I can't agree with him on Israel, South America, North Korea, Iran, or many other spots, but here he is doing what's needed.

well he inherited the situation more or less, and he did campaign on it

13 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:27:14pm

re: #4 _RememberTonyC

Afghanistan is NOT like Iraq. Iraq once was a civilized place and thus has some history of being civilized. Not so in Afghanistan. Ralph peters wrote a nice piece on this in today's New York Post. This may become Obama's Vietnam.


here's the ralph peters column on this topic ... [Link: www.nypost.com...]

14 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:27:38pm

re: #4 _RememberTonyC

Afghanistan is NOT like Iraq. Iraq once was a civilized place and thus has some history of being civilized. Not so in Afghanistan. Ralph peters wrote a nice piece on this in today's New York Post. This may become Obama's Vietnam.

draft time

15 kawfytawk  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:28:31pm

re: #3 Thanos

my verdict is still out...they are having to fight with one hand tied behind their back...Obama doesn't want a single civilian casualty...that would be nice ...but realistically...this is war

16 BatGuano  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:28:40pm

re: #7 buzzsawmonkey

I thought "surges" didn't work?

That was ...before. You know.

17 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:28:42pm

re: #7 buzzsawmonkey

I still can't believe Obama's anti-surge position didn't cost him the election. That being said, I can't really complain about his handling of Afghanistan and Iraq.

18 opnion  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:28:53pm

re: #3 Thanos

Strangely enough, Afghanistan is one of the few countries in the world where our President gets foreign policy and military strategy right. I can't agree with him on Israel, South America, North Korea, Iran, or many other spots, but here he is doing what's needed.

Obama is kind of stuck taking a hard line in Afghanistan. He used it as a club over Bush, saying thet Iraq diverted us from the real war in Afghanistan.
I hope that he does it smart & allows the use of massive force & lets the commnaders run it without touchy feely rules of engagement that will get our troops killed.

19 Lincolntf  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:28:57pm

re: #14 albusteve

Almost worth it just to see all the Code Pinkos self-immolate.

20 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:29:04pm

I am not expert on these things but I found this interesting. I have always found from my readings that no 2 situations are the same and therefore should be treated differently. So I have been worried about our strategy in Afghanistan.

This by Ralph Peters from the NY Post is interesting:

MISCALCULATING blindly, al Qaeda suffered a catastrophic defeat in Iraq. Now our approach to Afghanistan bears an uncanny resemblance to the terrorists' failed strategy.

[Link: www.nypost.com...]

Worth the read and pertinent to this thread.

21 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:29:24pm

re: #14 albusteve

draft time

The military bosses are against that idea.

22 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:30:06pm

re: #13 _RememberTonyC

here's the ralph peters column on this topic ... [Link: www.nypost.com...]

I just posted the same. Good article I thought.

23 snowcrash  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:30:09pm

WaPo article describes different strategy being used in this operation.

24 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:30:22pm

re: #14 albusteve

draft time

NO

25 opnion  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:30:23pm

re: #10 kawfytawk

Fox news reported the soldier left the base without permission and alone...what could have possessed him to do that?

Sounds like there was a woman he wanted to see. I have seen guys do it.

26 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:30:36pm

re: #21 _RememberTonyC

The military bosses are against that idea.

so am I...they are pro's, not cannon fodder and enlistments are up again...GO USA!...GET SOME!

27 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:30:41pm

re: #22 Nevergiveup

I just posted the same. Good article I thought.

Peters is really smart. I enjoy his perspective immensely.

28 pat  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:30:55pm

Oh oh.Back to herding the women and goats and pretending you know nothing.

29 kawfytawk  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:30:56pm

re: #21 _RememberTonyC

The military bosses are against that idea.

I'm glad too...would prefer the kind of military that actually gives a crap

30 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:31:05pm

re: #21 _RememberTonyC

The military bosses are against that idea.

And most people in the Military I know

31 Kronocide  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:31:13pm

Semper Fi.

32 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:31:20pm

re: #25 opnion

Sounds like there was a woman he wanted to see. I have seen guys do it.

Yeah, I was thinking there was a double-X chromosome at the back of this.

Sigh.

33 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:31:43pm

re: #26 albusteve

so am I...they are pro's, not cannon fodder and enlistments are up again...GO USA!...GET SOME!


exactly. we don't need unmotivated, sullen people on the battlefield.

34 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:31:44pm

re: #25 opnion

Sounds like there was a woman he wanted to see. I have seen guys do it.

It's not like Paris was down the road?

35 kawfytawk  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:32:12pm

re: #25 opnion

Sounds like there was a woman he wanted to see. I have seen guys do it.

you may be right but he is putting more than just himself on the line...I pray it all works out and everyone is safe and sound

36 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:32:33pm

re: #33 _RememberTonyC

exactly. we don't need unmotivated, sullen people on the battlefield.

think off all the available drugs for the draftees...yikes!...

37 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:32:40pm
38 capitalist piglet  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:34:36pm

re: #14 albusteve

draft time

"It's one, two, three, what are we fightin' for..."

Where's Country Joe (a reference to Joseph Stalin) these days? Probably working at the State Department.

39 opnion  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:34:47pm

re: #32 EmmmieG

Yeah, I was thinking there was a double-X chromosome at the back of this.

Sigh.

It does make sense. I heard somewhere that he was captured by locals & sold to the Taliban. If that's true he could have been in a village to meet a woman. I am really speculating.
I just hope that somehow they get him back safely.

40 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:35:13pm

God bless our Marines. The only thing that can stop them is if they run out of Miranda cards. Keep those printing presses working overtime.
/

41 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:36:19pm

I heard a related report on NPR this morning. They described the plan to have Marines living outside of villages "to make it safe enough to have a school." I know the reality is, "to make it safe enough for girls to go to school." I almost cried. What more worthy task is there than allowing kids to be educated? Those Marines are world-class heroes.

42 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:36:59pm

re: #38 capitalist piglet

"It's one, two, three, what are we fightin' for..."

Where's Country Joe (a reference to Joseph Stalin) these days? Probably working at the State Department.

he's around...probably doing the 200 seat casino circuit

43 opnion  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:37:39pm

re: #35 kawfytawk

you may be right but he is putting more than just himself on the line...I pray it all works out and everyone is safe and sound

Yeah, it wouldn't excuse his recklessness, but it would make it understandable.
We sent a lot of young guys & they do have powerful urges.
He just needs to be rescued & develop some more practical dating habits.

44 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:37:47pm

re: #39 opnion

It does make sense. I heard somewhere that he was captured by locals & sold to the Taliban. If that's true he could have been in a village to meet a woman. I am really speculating.
I just hope that somehow they get him back safely.

he's AWOL...he's in deep shit abandoning his unit

45 Randall Gross  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:37:54pm

Afghanistan has a long and checkered history of tribal rivalries, insurrections, and conquest. For centuries every neighbor on Afghanistan's borders has made it the buffer zone and battleground, and persistently destabilized it. It's not surprising that parts of the country are nearly medieval, and some less developed than that.
If you want to follow strategy and ongoing efforts from multiple viewpoints here's a few bookmarks I recommend since this will last at least another three years:
Ghosts of Alexander
Small Wars Journal
Long War Journal
Abu Muquwama
CNAS

Warning: You won't always be reading what you want to hear since a couple of these are left leaning, but it will be honest.

46 brookly red  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:38:12pm

re: #40 LGoPs

God bless our Marines. The only thing that can stop them is if they run out of Miranda cards. Keep those printing presses working overtime.
/

/ somewhere "you have the right to remain silent" is being painted on the under-side of a gunship right now...

47 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:38:18pm

The new jihadi menu -- eat your kill

If anyone ever doubted the West faces sheer insanity in the fight against the most extreme of the Muslim extremists, consider a discussion that recently erupted on a jihadist Web site based on the writings of one of al Qaeda's leading theorists. The thrust of the debate was that Muslim fighters may be justified in cannibalizing U.S. soldiers if they find themselves with nothing else to eat.

/stay frosty Marines!

48 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:38:18pm

re: #44 albusteve

he's AWOL...he's in deep shit abandoning his unit

I think that is the least of his problems right now!

49 Kronocide  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:38:52pm

Once Marine units arrive in their designated towns and villages, they have been instructed to build and live in small outposts among the local population. The brigade's commander, Brig. Gen. Lawrence D. Nicholson, said his Marines will focus their efforts on protecting civilians from the Taliban and on restoring Afghan government services, instead of mounting a series of hunt-and-kill missions against the insurgents.

"We're doing this very differently," Nicholson said to his senior officers a few hours before the mission began. "We're going to be with the people. We're not going to drive to work. We're going to walk to work."

Good luck Marines. Seems like some of the old Viet Nam strategies are giving way to the Petraeus immersion.

50 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:38:55pm

May God be with our Brave US Marines...
They are the best you know...Taliban is is deep shit...

51 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:39:35pm
52 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:39:37pm

re: #48 Nevergiveup

I think that is the least of his problems right now!

indeed...I don't wish being captured by the Talis on anyone except my second wife

53 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:40:08pm

God protect our troops.
Confusion to the enemy!

54 kawfytawk  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:40:25pm

Happy early Independence Day to all

I pray all the military men and women around the world are home safe and sound very very soon... until then...Lord keep them safe

55 capitalist piglet  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:40:34pm

re: #46 brookly red

/ somewhere "you have the right to remain silent" is being painted on the under-side of a gunship right now...

That would make an awesome stamp on the side of a JDAM-equipped bomb.

56 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:40:38pm

re: #46 brookly red

/ somewhere "you have the right to remain silent" is being painted on the under-side of a gunship right now...

LOL. I love it.

57 opnion  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:41:33pm

re: #44 albusteve

he's AWOL...he's in deep shit abandoning his unit

That courts marshall would be nothing compared to the horror show that he is in now.
I actually saw guys get nothing more than a lecture. He will not be so lucky, because he got captured & made news.
Seriously though, don't you think that this kid would trade his situation to do a little brig time?

58 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:41:44pm

re: #46 brookly red

/ somewhere "you have the right to remain silent" is being painted on the under-side of a gunship right now...

NICE!

59 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:41:49pm

re: #51 Iron Fist
No fucking draft! Even when I retired in '97 you always had a small percentage who acted like they'd been drafted even though they volunteered. Problem children from the get go.

60 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:42:03pm

re: #51 Iron Fist

If he reinstates the draft, then we know he is trying to lose. Our troops are the finest the world has ever seen. There are many reasons for that, but one of the reasons is that they chose of their own free will to be there. The draft would destroy that. To my knowledge during the Reagan Administration no one talked about reinstating the draft even in the event of war with the Soviet Union. We had to register for the draft, so there was some preperation for it if it became necessary, but I am not aware of anyone wanting to do it.

agreed...it just seemed synonymous with a VN quagmire

61 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:42:28pm

re: #57 opnion
In a New York minute.

62 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:43:05pm

re: #2 callahan23

Oh, please let him be safe.

Captured U.S. soldier was 'sold' to local insurgent group; terrorists say they'll release video soon

An American soldier who went missing from a U.S. base in eastern Afghanistan was "sold" to a local militant group - which claims it will soon release a video of the captive and a list of demands, a U.S. military official said.

"Our leaders have not decided on the fate of this soldier," said a commander with the Taliban's hard-line Haqqani faction, according to Agence-France Press. "They will decide on his fate and soon we will present video tapes of the coalition soldier and our demand to media."

/he walked off the base alone, without body armor, and without his weapon, all definite no-nos

63 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:43:36pm

re: #46 brookly red
Heh! I like it.

64 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:43:38pm
65 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:44:35pm

re: #39 opnion

It does make sense. I heard somewhere that he was captured by locals & sold to the Taliban. If that's true he could have been in a village to meet a woman. I am really speculating.
I just hope that somehow they get him back safely.

The article made it sound as if he'd just stepped a short distance away from his post. Could he have been lured by someone calling for help or a child crying?

66 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:44:49pm

re: #64 Iron Fist

I hope the Apache drives paint it on their Hellfire missiles. "We Mirandized him, but he was killed resisting arrest. Oh, well, he's better off enjoying his raisens than sitting on the beach in Gitmo."

:-)

clearly showing respect for their cultural differences...we're cool that way

67 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:45:16pm

re: #62 Killian Bundy
Are y'all sure we left the base with no weapon, body armor etc...Damn stupid thing to do, even if he was going over the hill. Plus are we sure he was going over the hill?

68 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:45:42pm

re: #65 doppelganglander

The article made it sound as if he'd just stepped a short distance away from his post. Could he have been lured by someone calling for help or a child crying?

more likely a bong and an adorable Afghani chick

69 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:45:52pm

re: #67 pingjockey

Are y'all sure we left the base with no weapon, body armor etc...Damn stupid thing to do, even if he was going over the hill. Plus are we sure he was going over the hill?

Any way you slice it, it's a fuck up story it seems

70 callahan23  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:46:23pm

I don't know where I got this from, but it is good:

“It’s God’s responsibility
to forgive Bin Laden”

“It’s our responsibility to
arrange the meeting”

United States Marine Corps

71 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:47:06pm

I sincerely hope Obama has the sense to let the military do their job as they see fit. His vaunted experience in running banks and car company's and hospitals aside, he doesn't know jack shit about closing with and destroyig the enemy. Let the professionals do that.

72 opnion  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:47:13pm

re: #65 doppelganglander

The article made it sound as if he'd just stepped a short distance away from his post. Could he have been lured by someone calling for help or a child crying?

If he was actually sold by locals, this could start a trend for the them to pick up some cash. Our people have to find out who did it & administer harsh punishment & make it public, to send a message.

73 Randall Gross  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:47:19pm

re: #62 Killian Bundy

/he walked off the base alone, without body armor, and without his weapon, all definite no-nos

The bad news is that the Talban who operate in the East along the old Silk route to China are among the most vicious and evil.

74 opnion  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:47:50pm

re: #68 albusteve

more likely a bong and an adorable Afghani chick

That's what I'm thinkin.

75 snowcrash  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:47:56pm

re: #68 albusteve
Arent the women are in those blue burkas with the face screens?

76 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:48:10pm

re: #64 Iron Fist

I hope the Apache drives paint it on their Hellfire missiles. "We Mirandized him, but he was killed resisting arrest. Oh, well, he's better off enjoying his raisens than sitting on the beach in Gitmo."

:-)

Have I told you about a firefight in Fallujah? My son was there.
At the end of it...The building was filled with women and children as human shields...The terrorists were the last to die...
That's what the world is facing...That is what our brave soldiers and Marines are facing right now...
Pray for them

77 brookly red  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:48:14pm

re: #62 Killian Bundy

/he walked off the base alone, without body armor, and without his weapon, all definite no-nos

Still I can't help but think that the Marines might have some methods to explain to the locals that what they did was not such a good idea.

78 BatGuano  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:48:25pm

re: #70 callahan23

General Scwartzkopf.

79 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:48:27pm

re: #67 pingjockey

Are y'all sure we left the base with no weapon, body armor etc...Damn stupid thing to do, even if he was going over the hill. Plus are we sure he was going over the hill?

/NBC Nightly News, less than five minutes ago and it's been dribbling out all day, he had "issues" with being there

80 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:48:32pm

If it absolutely, positively has to be destroyed overnight, call 1-800-USMC.

81 MandyManners  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:48:32pm
President Barack Obama told The Associated Press in an interview Thursday that he has a “very narrow definition of success when it comes to our national security interests” in the region. “And that is that al-Qaida and its affiliates cannot set up safe havens from which to attack Americans.”


I reckon he's signalling to ShortShit that he'll not exert any pressure on Iran from that direction.

82 MarineGrunt  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:49:03pm

Get some Jarheads.

One Marine was killed and several others were injured or wounded

RIP Brother.
Semper Fi

83 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:49:07pm
84 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:49:11pm

re: #69 Nevergiveup
Yeppers.
Fuck Juan Williams, still with the meme GW Bush and WMDs in Iraq. That wasn't the main fucking reason. Over 20 UN resolutions, IIRC. The WMDs were there, ask the Kurds! I think they went to Syria. But they were there at one time.

85 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:49:13pm

re: #75 snowcrash

Arent the women are in those blue burkas with the face screens?

hell I don't know...Thanos knows a ton about these guys

86 opnion  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:49:13pm

re: #76 HoosierHoops

Have I told you about a firefight in Fallujah? My son was there.
At the end of it...The building was filled with women and children as human shields...The terrorists were the last to die...
That's what the world is facing...That is what our brave soldiers and Marines are facing right now...
Pray for them


Compliments to your son.

87 kawfytawk  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:49:16pm

re: #79 Killian Bundy

/NBC Nightly News, less than five minutes ago and it's been dribbling out all day, he had "issues" with being there

great...now he really has some "issues"...crap

88 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:49:52pm

re: #76 HoosierHoops
Everyday.

89 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:50:12pm
90 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:50:21pm

re: #77 brookly red

Still I can't help but think that the Marines might have some methods to explain to the locals that what they did was not such a good idea.

/I don't think they're operating in the same area

91 MarineGrunt  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:51:11pm

re: #25 opnion

Captured an NVA on a night patrol doing the same thing.

92 callahan23  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:51:12pm

I don't know where I got this from, but it is good: (Part II)

Contrast those two quotes:
October 2001: Taliban supreme leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar:
“The situation where we are now, there are two things: either death or victory. To those who are fighting and bombarding us, they should understand the Afghan man is a fighter willing to die for jihad.”

June 1944: General George S. Patton:
“I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country…”

93 Randall Gross  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:51:39pm

Abu M noted this from Chandrasekaran:

"The Marines have also been vexed by a lack of Afghan security forces and a near-total absence of additional U.S. civilian reconstruction personnel. Nicholson had hoped that his brigade, which has about 11,000 Marines and sailors, would be able to conduct operations with a similar number of Afghan soldiers. But thus far, the Marines have been allotted only about 500 Afghan soldiers, which he deems "a critical vulnerability."...Despite commitments from the State Department and the U.S. Agency for International Development that they would send additional personnel to help the new forces in southern Afghanistan with reconstruction and governance development, State has added only two officers in Helmand since the Marines arrived. State has promised to have a dozen more diplomats and reconstruction experts working with the Marines, but only by the end of the summer."

94 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:52:06pm

re: #92 callahan23
I always thought George had a good grasp on how to win.

95 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:53:06pm
President Barack Obama told The Associated Press in an interview Thursday that he has a “very narrow definition of success when it comes to our national security interests” in the region. “And that is that al-Qaida and its affiliates cannot set up safe havens from which to attack Americans.”

Let me help clarify that for you Mr President. Success means killing the fuckers. Period.

96 MandyManners  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:53:08pm

re: #80 LGoPs

If it absolutely, positively has to be destroyed overnight, call 1-800-USMC.

DING!

97 LatinGent  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:53:12pm

re: #94 pingjockey

I always thought George had a good grasp on how to win.

As we `quietly` celebrate our victory in Iraq.

98 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:53:18pm

re: #94 pingjockey

ever see that Military channel show about him?...very cool...he kicked ass through Sicily...his finest hour so to speak

99 MarineGrunt  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:53:29pm

re: #41 wrenchwench

Sounds like the CAP units of Vietnam

100 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:54:33pm

re: #98 albusteve
Don't get the Military Channel. History had a Patton 360, is it the same show? Lots of battle animation to show who what where how?

101 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:54:34pm

[Link: www.youtube.com:80...]

/sucks to be Taliban in Helmand province right about now

102 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:54:43pm

re: #98 albusteve

ever see that Military channel show about him?...very cool...he kicked ass through Sicily...his finest hour so to speak

If you ignore that little thing about ignoring orders? Which I do.

103 callahan23  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:54:43pm

re: #83 Iron Fist

I've heard that too, but I don't remember the source. It is an execellent summation of what we are doing. It is almost as good as Patton's "use their intestines to grease the treads of my tanks" speech. Not quite as good (Patton had a way with words), but still memorable.

See my quote re: #92 callahan23 you are right he definitely had a way with words.

104 opnion  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:54:56pm

re: #95 LGoPs

Let me help clarify that for you Mr President. Success means killing the fuckers. Period.


Yeah, I found it odd that BHO didn't say anything about defeating the Taliban. Seems like a kinda big oversight.

105 MandyManners  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:55:05pm

re: #89 buzzsawmonkey

Or any other.

Perhaps our withdrawal from the cities in Iraq is his signal from that direction.

106 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:55:15pm

re: #92 callahan23

I don't know where I got this from, but it is good: (Part II)

Contrast those two quotes:
October 2001: Taliban supreme leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar:
“The situation where we are now, there are two things: either death or victory. To those who are fighting and bombarding us, they should understand the Afghan man is a fighter willing to die for jihad.”

June 1944: General George S. Patton:
“I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country…”

Yo, Mullah Omar - The American man is a fighter willing to help you die for jihad.
Oh and by the way - Fuck you.

107 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:55:15pm

re: #98 albusteve

ever see that Military channel show about him?...very cool...he kicked ass through Sicily...his finest hour so to speak

Battle of the Bulge may have been his finest hour

108 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:55:18pm

I want to see BO get his floppy eared ass over to Germany and take care of his wounded when they get there...son of a bitch has some payback to make square

109 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:55:39pm

re: #97 LatinGent
Not that George, George S. Patton. I just hope the Iraqis can hang on and get their asses in gear on their own.

110 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:55:44pm

re: #102 Nevergiveup

If you ignore that little thing about ignoring orders? Which I do.

yes I recall...brass balls?

111 LatinGent  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:56:21pm

re: #109 pingjockey

Not that George, George S. Patton. I just hope the Iraqis can hang on and get their asses in gear on their own.

Yes, this is the test, isn`t it?

112 MandyManners  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:56:22pm

Reservations at the restaurant in a few. Have a good evening, Lizards!

113 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:56:27pm

re: #107 Nevergiveup

Battle of the Bulge may have been his finest hour

I disagree...he was nearly out of that fight

114 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:56:39pm

re: #99 MarineGrunt

Sounds like the CAP units of Vietnam

Thanks for the info. I wiki'd for more.

115 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:56:47pm

re: #112 MandyManners
You too mandy!

116 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:56:58pm

re: #79 Killian Bundy

/NBC Nightly News, less than five minutes ago and it's been dribbling out all day, he had "issues" with being there

Great. Here I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he turns out to be one of those sniveling kids who joined for the educational benefits and is shocked when he gets sent overseas, I have no use for him.

117 snowcrash  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:57:10pm

re: #95 LGoPs
Good or bad, in this case I think the main thrust of the mission is to get the govt. back on its feet. As per Brig. Gen. Nicholson from WaPo article I linked above.

118 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:58:08pm
119 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:58:29pm

re: #86 opnion

Compliments to your son.


Let me tell you something right now..My Friend
When 1st platoon came home and I was drinking beer with my son and his comrades in arms...
They told me the story...It's straight up... I can't say if I ever saw pictures on a secure Thumb drive..
But I did sit there and saw the tears in the eyes of Marines...Marines don't fucking cry...But that night. fresh coming home..drunk on beer...They had tears in their eyes...The 3/5th Marines Rock!
Our sons and daughters are hero's against evil...
And trust me...It is pure evil...

120 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:58:31pm

re: #111 LatinGent
It certainly is. Here's your country, make it work. Thing is they can, they have a middle class, etc...If they can overcome the Iranian agents, ala Lebanon and get their infrastructure going.

121 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:58:52pm

re: #113 albusteve

I disagree...he was nearly out of that fight

Not really. He turn his Army 90 degrees in the middle of the winter and was personally responsible for collapsing the southern flank of the Bulge and joining up with the 101st ( who didn't need rescuing ).

122 opnion  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:59:00pm

Have a good night everyone.

123 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 3:59:47pm

re: #118 Iron Fist
Yep. You and me both. There is a boatload of represenatives and senators I'd like to see prosecuted for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

124 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:00:22pm

re: #122 opnion

Have a good night everyone.

Happy 4th. I'm gonna celebrate it with a fifth...
/ :)

125 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:01:07pm

00:59 Senior British commander killed in blast in southern Afghanistan (Reuters)

Things appear to be heating up

126 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:01:30pm

re: #124 LGoPs

Happy 4th. I'm gonna celebrate it with a fifth...
/ :)

You saw me at the liquor store did you?

127 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:02:22pm

re: #119 HoosierHoops
Until you have been there or talked to the kids that have, people in this country have no idea of this evil. The goddamn msm won't show you either, they are assholes, no, worse than that. Goddamn lying, terrorist enabling dickheads. And worse, I'm short of epithets right now.

128 brookly red  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:02:31pm

re: #117 snowcrash

Good or bad, in this case I think the main thrust of the mission is to get the govt. back on its feet. As per Brig. Gen. Nicholson from WaPo article I linked above.

and with the Pakistanis also going after the Tali-ban on their side of the border the timing is good, no?

129 eon  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:02:31pm

re: #23 snowcrash

WaPo article describes different strategy being used in this operation.

This "outpost" strategy sounds suspiciously like the "strategic hamlet" program in Vietnam from 1965 to 1967. It started with fortified hamlets occupied by loyal South Vietnamese and U.S. advisors, doing much the same thing the Marines are doing here. And it, too, was touted as an "alternative" to search-and-destroy missions that (until they were sharply curtailed in mid-1966 in favor of establishing "firebases" along the border with Laos and Cambodia, to match those along the DMZ) had been effective in terminating VC units (and a few NVA units, as well), but were deemed too "controversial" by LBJ and his "brain trust".

This is starting to give me the same feeling I had in the pit of my stomach then, when as a 7-to-9-year-old kid, I was watching this on the TV news, reading about it in the newspapers- and listening to my uncles (veterans of the Army, the Navy, and the Corps, who had been everywhere from Normandy to the Pusan Perimeter with rifles in their hands or tanks or warships under them) saying, "What in the H**l is that idiot in the White House thinking?"

I'm thinking that President Obama is trying his own brand of LBJ's and Nixon's Vietnam policies in Afghanistan. And I've got a sinking sensation that it's going to get about the same results.

Unfortunately, we really can't emulate the only effective strategy that has ever worked in that region- that of the British Indian Army when dealing with the "Afridi" from the 1850s to the early 1900s. Simply put, as long as they confined their antisocial behavior to the Afghan side of the border and stayed out of British India, the BIA didn't care. One raid into the Raj, however, and said group of Afridi were hunted down and "eliminated" by the British. The British never "conquered" Afghanistan, or even occupied a respectable portion of same. But then, they weren't trying to do either one. They just wanted the Afghan tribes to keep their local disputes "local", and on their own side of the border.

The reason we can't do that now, is that the section of the former British India that bordered Afghanistan is now called Pakistan- and we aren't doing too well there, in terms of popularity. (Our new President's statement when campaigning that he was in favor of invading Pakistan, in spite of it being under a "friendly" government, probably didn't help.)

This is beginning to look like a situation in which our leadership is once more trying to "fight without fighting"- attempting "nation building" without securing the nation first.

And I'm very much afraid that this could end just like our last few attempts did. Like Vietnam. Like Lebanon. Like Somalia. Strangely enough, a policy similar to what we had in the Balkans might work, here. And it was a mainly Democratic-conceived policy. But he apparently isn't interested in trying that, either.

I don't think this is deliberate on the President's part. I think he's just too ignorant of history and strategy to know any better, and has a tendency to assume anyone in a uniform must be wrong, if they disagree with him, and therefore ignores them. (Just IMHO.)

I just don't see this ending well.

/rant off- awaiting brickbats with interest.

cheers

eon

130 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:02:34pm

re: #126 DEZes

You saw me at the liquor store did you?

Was that you! {Dez}

131 LatinGent  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:02:41pm

re: #120 pingjockey

It certainly is. Here's your country, make it work. Thing is they can, they have a middle class, etc...If they can overcome the Iranian agents, ala Lebanon and get their infrastructure going.

The next year will tell. But for giving the Iraqis the chance, a Trillion updings to the U.S. military. (I`m still trying to get used to this number).

132 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:03:13pm

re: #121 Nevergiveup

Not really. He turn his Army 90 degrees in the middle of the winter and was personally responsible for collapsing the southern flank of the Bulge and joining up with the 101st ( who didn't need rescuing ).

yes, but I'm not sure you could say he fought his way to Bastogne...more of a mad dash

133 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:03:15pm
"You're going to change the world this summer and it starts this morning. The United States and the world are watching. Their expectations are enormously high during this summer of decision."

/Lieutenant Colonel Christian Cabaniss, commander of the 2nd battalion, 8th Marines

134 callahan23  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:03:21pm

re: #78 BatGuano

General Scwartzkopf.

Was it really him? Thanks.

135 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:03:50pm

re: #130 LGoPs

Was that you! {Dez}

Picked up some beer and a bottle of Makers. ;)

136 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:03:59pm

re: #127 pingjockey

Until you have been there or talked to the kids that have, people in this country have no idea of this evil. The goddamn msm won't show you either, they are assholes, no, worse than that. Goddamn lying, terrorist enabling dickheads. And worse, I'm short of epithets right now.

I've got a full clip...I'll help. How about treasonous weasel bastards for a start...

137 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:04:06pm

re: #131 LatinGent
That number should've never came into use!

138 SecondComing  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:04:15pm

OT

Here we go AGAIN!:

Obama "Deeply Concerned" with Unemployment


HAHAHA geez!

139 McJenny50  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:04:49pm

I just got a new soldier from Soldier's Angels and he is a Marine from Camp Pendelton and was deployed in April. He does something with helicopters and it wouldn't surprise me if he was involved in this.

140 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:05:18pm

re: #136 LGoPs
That's a good one. I always like being able to work in 'weasel' when I can.

141 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:06:29pm

re: #138 SecondComing

Obama "Deeply Concerned" with Unemployment

HAHAHA geez!

/he's pathetic

142 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:07:21pm

re: #139 McJenny50
Good for you and thank you for your support. We've got 3, next door neighbors kid, brother in laws step son, friend of my oldest boy.
One marine, one seal, one airforce. Heh. I'm so proud of those young men I could bust open.

143 Truck Monkey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:07:59pm

re: #138 SecondComing

OT

Here we go AGAIN!:

Obama "Deeply Concerned" with Unemployment

HAHAHA geez!

That's Funemployment now that The Teleprompter Jesus is in the White House. The Lamestream Media spend an awful lot of time telling us how great it is that the Funemployment rate is only 9.5%. It could be 15% you know...

144 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:08:10pm

re: #132 albusteve

yes, but I'm not sure you could say he fought his way to Bastogne...more of a mad dash

Well whatever happened, would be nice to have him around today for sure.

145 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:08:15pm

re: #127 pingjockey

Until you have been there or talked to the kids that have, people in this country have no idea of this evil. The goddamn msm won't show you either, they are assholes, no, worse than that. Goddamn lying, terrorist enabling dickheads. And worse, I'm short of epithets right now.

Can I make a shout out to an American Hero Charles? Please?
Sgt. Howe of 1st platoon keep my son safe in Iraq...They went through hell and all came back home safe...
He is a hero

146 ArmyWife  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:09:05pm

My prayers are with the brave men and women. I've got a close friend there now, so more sleepless nights for me!

147 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:09:11pm

re: #127 pingjockey

Sniveling cowardly butt munching turncoats.
Will that help get you back on track?

148 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:09:12pm

re: #145 HoosierHoops
NCOs run the military. God bless him and your son.

149 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:09:42pm

re: #143 Truck Monkey

That's Funemployment now that The Teleprompter Jesus is in the White House. The Lamestream Media spend an awful lot of time telling us how great it is that the Funemployment rate is only 9.5%. It could be 15% you know...

It probably is 15%, by the time you count discouraged workers and people no longer eligible for unemployment. Throw in consultants who can't get a contract, small business owners with no customers, and recent graduates who can't find jobs, maybe it's higher than that.

150 Pvt Bin Jammin  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:09:45pm

re: #139 McJenny50

I just got a new soldier from Soldier's Angels and he is a Marine from Camp Pendelton and was deployed in April. He does something with helicopters and it wouldn't surprise me if he was involved in this.

Tell him thanks from another Soldiers' Angel. Love those helicopter guys from Camp Pendleton. We had a nephew who was a crew chief from Camp Pendleton too.

151 ArmyWife  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:09:55pm

re: #145 HoosierHoops

HOOHAH!

152 TheMatrix31  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:10:08pm

re: #138 SecondComing

OT

Here we go AGAIN!:

Obama "Deeply Concerned" with Unemployment

HAHAHA geez!

I'm deeply concerned with how much of a fucking moron he is.

153 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:10:22pm

re: #147 DEZes
We're getting there. Had a couple of pain pills and my posting is okay, just my putting together appropriate epithets is not working.

154 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:10:48pm
155 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:10:55pm

re: #138 SecondComing

OT

Here we go AGAIN!:

Obama "Deeply Concerned" with Unemployment

HAHAHA geez!

Ahh, the DC in Washington,DC makes more sense now.

Teleprompter needs a smack on the back.

156 SecondComing  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:10:59pm

re: #141 Killian Bundy

/he's pathetic

/he doesn't know what the hell do to.

He's just good at campaigning. That's why he keeps having those town halls. He gets that rush of being on the campaign trail.

157 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:11:08pm

re: #144 Nevergiveup

Well whatever happened, would be nice to have him around today for sure.

for his battle field speeches alone

158 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:11:19pm

No Quarter. Sorry.

159 Randall Gross  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:11:20pm

BTW: there is a reason why Helmand, why now, and why Marines. There seems to be a grander strategy here that I'll not speculate on yet.
Meanwhile here's the AQ sympathizer, Syed with an update and history on Baitullah. There's truth here mixed with agitprop so beware:

[Link: www.atimes.com...]

160 ArmyWife  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:11:44pm

re: #156 SecondComing

I don't know if it's the rush, or the fact that he is a one trick pony.

161 ArmyWife  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:12:24pm

re: #159 Thanos

Mr. Armywife has a theory, too. Wonder if it matches yours.

162 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:12:37pm
163 Sharmuta  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:12:37pm

I fully support this action, and I'm thankful it's occurring in conjunction with the Pakistanis turning on the taliban and al qaeda. These are the conditions we had in Iraq where the surge was successful. God bless our troops. May they be safe and successful.

164 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:13:04pm

re: #156 SecondComing
Ha! Did ya see that fossil Helen Thomas and the guy from NBC giving Gibbs hell about the staged town hall meeting. Priceless, no fawning msm.
How long it'll last..who knows. Just got a kick out of Gibbs getting kneecapped.

165 callahan23  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:13:38pm

re: #147 DEZes

Sniveling cowardly butt munching turncoats.
Will that help get you back on track?

Ugh, that is disgustingly good.

Terror enabling, dicktator loving socialist scum media.

%P% Oops, did I really type that? Never mind. ;-)

166 Pvt Bin Jammin  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:13:56pm

re: #145 HoosierHoops

Can I make a shout out to an American Hero Charles? Please?
Sgt. Howe of 1st platoon keep my son safe in Iraq...They went through hell and all came back home safe...
He is a hero

Semper Fi to Sgt. Howe and your son from a family of Marines, my hubby, two of his brothers, three nephews and a great nephew currently serving with MARSOC.

167 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:14:02pm

re: #153 pingjockey

We're getting there. Had a couple of pain pills and my posting is okay, just my putting together appropriate epithets is not working.

If I used the epithets I was thinking, some of the fairer lizards would have strokes.
I hate few men, and Reid is one of those few.

168 Truck Monkey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:14:10pm

re: #149 doppelganglander

It probably is 15%, by the time you count discouraged workers and people no longer eligible for unemployment. Throw in consultants who can't get a contract, small business owners with no customers, and recent graduates who can't find jobs, maybe it's higher than that.

Well then. Aren't we all happy that it is not 20%? My business is suffering and I might have to send a couple of employees to the Funemployment line.
Breaks my heart but I don't know what else to do.

169 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:14:18pm

re: #153 pingjockey

We're getting there. Had a couple of pain pills and my posting is okay, just my putting together appropriate epithets is not working.

Another burst for you - Low-life, malignant narcissistic whores...

170 eon  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:15:05pm

re: #138 SecondComing

OT

Here we go AGAIN!:

Obama "Deeply Concerned" with Unemployment

HAHAHA geez!

His geniuses' estimate was that we would lose "only" 350,000 jobs in June, and therefore claimed the "stimulus" (which hasn't even kicked in yet) was "already working".. Other estimates (such as from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce) put the estimate closer to 480,000 jobs lost, which The One's crew said was "outrageously overestimated".

Final number; 467,000 jobs lost in June.

So, is their next claim going to be, "See? We 'saved or created' 13,000 jobs?"

/These people would be amusing if the consequences of their stupidity weren't so potentially disastrous.

cheers

eon

171 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:15:18pm

re: #156 SecondComing

he doesn't know what the hell do to.

CUT [EXPLETIVE DELETED] TAXES AND QUIT THREATENING TO SPEND TRILLION OF DOLLARS WE DON'T HAVE ON DUMB ASS [EXPLETIVE DELETED] WE DON'T NEED AND CAN'T AFFORD!

/see, that's not so hard

172 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:15:56pm

re: #169 LGoPs

Another burst for you - Low-life, malignant narcissistic whores...

malignant, Nice...

173 SecondComing  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:16:00pm

re: #143 Truck Monkey

That's Funemployment now that The Teleprompter Jesus is in the White House. The Lamestream Media spend an awful lot of time telling us how great it is that the Funemployment rate is only 9.5%. It could be 15% you know...

I love how the news stories are how people are enjoying their time off from having a job. How they're enjoying more out of life, having time for themselves, and learning that living with less is more etc. blah blah...

With Bush Regan etc... it would be video clips of people at employment lines, eating a food kitchens, stories of children that starve because of losing their jobs thanks to evil Republicans.

174 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:16:15pm

re: #168 Truck Monkey

Well then. Aren't we all happy that it is not 20%? My business is suffering and I might have to send a couple of employees to the Funemployment line.
Breaks my heart but I don't know what else to do.

That sucks. When the company I worked for went into total meltdown after 9/11, my boss was devastated at having to lay everyone off. It's hard for the boss, too.

175 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:16:18pm
176 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:16:29pm

re: #167 DEZes
If I was on a roll, and started talking like I was on the fantail getting 3 line crews ready to moor the ship...It has been known to peel paint, knock down jr. officers, and straighten curly hair.

177 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:16:55pm

re: #173 SecondComing

I love how the news stories are how people are enjoying their time off from having a job. How they're enjoying more out of life, having time for themselves, and learning that living with less is more etc. blah blah...

With Bush Regan etc... it would be video clips of people at employment lines, eating a food kitchens, stories of children that starve because of losing their jobs thanks to evil Republicans.

Would that I had a thousand updings to give.

178 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:17:53pm
179 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:17:57pm

And when you're done with the Taliban in Helmand province, don't forget to destroy the poppy crops.

/kill them and eliminate their source of income

180 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:18:01pm

re: #170 eon

His geniuses' estimate was that we would lose "only" 350,000 jobs in June, and therefore claimed the "stimulus" (which hasn't even kicked in yet) was "already working".. Other estimates (such as from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce) put the estimate closer to 480,000 jobs lost, which The One's crew said was "outrageously overestimated".

Final number; 467,000 jobs lost in June.

So, is their next claim going to be, "See? We 'saved or created' 13,000 jobs?"

/These people would be amusing if the consequences of their stupidity weren't so potentially disastrous.

cheers

eon

They really do not know what they are doing - at least from the standpoint of helping the economy. Their leader's main experience comes from being a community agitator - a rabble rouser - fer cryin' out loud.

181 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:18:03pm

re: #165 callahan23

Ugh, that is disgustingly good.

Terror enabling, dicktator loving socialist scum media.

%P% Oops, did I really type that? Never mind. ;-)

"Disgustingly good"

I know a compliment when I see one. ;)

182 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:18:04pm
183 SecondComing  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:18:13pm

re: #160 ArmyWife

I don't know if it's the rush, or the fact that he is a one trick pony.

Yeah, that's more like it.

184 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:18:22pm

re: #176 pingjockey

If I was on a roll, and started talking like I was on the fantail getting 3 line crews ready to moor the ship...It has been known to peel paint, knock down jr. officers, and straighten curly hair.

hey,hey, easy now. There's mechanics in here.

~Jeff Foxworthy

185 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:18:38pm

re: #176 pingjockey

If I was on a roll, and started talking like I was on the fantail getting 3 line crews ready to moor the ship...It has been known to peel paint, knock down jr. officers, and straighten curly hair.

You are the man.

186 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:18:49pm

re: #173 SecondComing
Since the one is in the WH, there are no homeless, no soup kitchens, etc..You WILL NOT see a homeless story, unless it is a vet who has gone crazy cause the VA didn't help.

187 Pvt Bin Jammin  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:18:55pm

bbiam, got to go dispose of all the weeds and clippings I've been working on.

188 Sharmuta  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:19:09pm

re: #178 buzzsawmonkey

It's sort of like Michael Moore's pre-invasion Iraq, isn't it? Kite-flying, merry-go-rounds, and lots of waffle cones.

It's the unicorns.

189 Truck Monkey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:19:11pm

re: #164 pingjockey

Ha! Did ya see that fossil Helen Thomas and the guy from NBC giving Gibbs hell about the staged town hall meeting. Priceless, no fawning msm.
How long it'll last..who knows. Just got a kick out of Gibbs getting kneecapped.

Funny. I remember when Helen Thomas gave the Emperor Diocletian Holy Hades in 301 A.D. when he implemented his Edict of Maximum Price Controls. She never changes.

190 ArmyWife  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:20:32pm

re: #174 doppelganglander

as an HR Director for a large chemical corp, we are doing creative things to keep things going - voluntary furloughs, shortened work weeks, bring your own lunch to lunch meetings, cut the cafeteria hours WAY back. So far we've not had a lay off, and I will continue to seek out new and inventive ways to save. $3000 saves about 3 people from having to take an unpaid furlough week, so every little bit counts.

191 callahan23  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:20:43pm

re: #188 Sharmuta

It's the unicorns.

The delusional left.

192 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:20:52pm

re: #182 Iron Fist


A greedy one! I just have to make sure I don't have any Saturday. I intend to drink beer. Percocet and beer is not a good combo.

193 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:21:02pm

re: #188 Sharmuta

It's the unicorns.

And the sandy snow cones, and cotton candy.

194 McJenny50  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:21:17pm

re: #142 pingjockey

This is my fifth or sixth - everyone else is home now. One that was in Afghanistan is already training, getting ready to go back in about a year. (I already volunteered to be an Angel for him again.)

195 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:21:26pm

re: #164 pingjockey

Ha! Did ya see that fossil Helen Thomas and the guy from NBC giving Gibbs hell about the staged town hall meeting. Priceless, no fawning msm.
How long it'll last..who knows. Just got a kick out of Gibbs getting kneecapped.

Gibbs didn't get anything. Did you see that stupid condescending laugh of his. He was either too stupid to understand or he didn't care, either way, it wasn't a kneecapping.

The only one who was kneecapped was the reporters, since they never got their answer.

Transparent my ass.

196 eon  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:21:32pm

re: #164 pingjockey

Ha! Did ya see that fossil Helen Thomas and the guy from NBC giving Gibbs hell about the staged town hall meeting. Priceless, no fawning msm.
How long it'll last..who knows. Just got a kick out of Gibbs getting kneecapped.

I missed it, but my best bud, the E-5, saw it. He thinks that Thomas was just pissed off that she didn't get an invite.

cheers

eon

197 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:22:09pm

re: #184 SasquatchOnSteroids
Mwahaha! My wife is the only woman in a machine shop and she could make sailors blush! Me being a squid, it absolutely cracks me up.

198 yochanan  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:22:29pm

WHAT WILL TODAYS LIBERAL AND FINE ARTS GRADS HEAR ON THERE FIRST JOB?

199 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:23:12pm

re: #198 yochanan

WHAT WILL TODAYS LIBERAL AND FINE ARTS GRADS HEAR ON THERE FIRST JOB?

Put this sign on your cars roof.

200 Truck Monkey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:23:12pm

re: #190 ArmyWife

as an HR Director for a large chemical corp, we are doing creative things to keep things going - voluntary furloughs, shortened work weeks, bring your own lunch to lunch meetings, cut the cafeteria hours WAY back. So far we've not had a lay off, and I will continue to seek out new and inventive ways to save. $3000 saves about 3 people from having to take an unpaid furlough week, so every little bit counts.

Are you at the same company you were at in MD?

201 yochanan  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:23:45pm

re: #199 DEZes

DO YOU WANT FRYS WITH THAT?

202 Truck Monkey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:23:47pm

re: #192 pingjockey

A greedy one! I just have to make sure I don't have any Saturday. I intend to drink beer. Percocet and beer is not a good combo.

Says who?

203 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:24:10pm

re: #194 McJenny50
You may have some idea of how much you are loved for doing what you do. When our troops are over there, even the smallest touch of home will lift your spirits like you can't believe.

204 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:24:23pm

re: #198 yochanan

WHAT WILL TODAYS LIBERAL AND FINE ARTS GRADS HEAR ON THERE FIRST JOB?

No, don't dig there. Dig here.

205 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:24:24pm
206 anchors_aweigh  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:25:01pm

I don't recall hearing the word "quagmire" from the MSM yet...when Bush went in with the Marines and Special Forces, in Oct of 2001...that's all we heard.

207 eon  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:25:01pm

re: #198 yochanan

WHAT WILL TODAYS LIBERAL AND FINE ARTS GRADS HEAR ON THERE FIRST JOB?

"You are required by law to wash your hands after using the restroom and before handling food.

"And don't forget to ask any patron who orders a cheeseburger if they want fries with it."

cheers

eon

208 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:25:09pm

re: #195 Walter L. Newton
Well hell. I thought it was funny. You really think it went over his head? Is he that clueless?

209 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:25:10pm

re: #201 yochanan

You how we will have to get them off our porches?


Pay em for the pizza. ;)

210 ArmyWife  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:25:20pm

re: #200 Truck Monkey

no, new big chemical company. Different chemicals - scarier chemicals. I love it! BWAHAHAHAHA

211 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:26:03pm

re: #202 Truck Monkey
MY oncologist!

212 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:27:11pm

re: #210 ArmyWife

no, new big chemical company. Different chemicals - scarier chemicals. I love it! BWAHAHAHAHA

Do you have any Royal water?

213 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:27:37pm

re: #199 DEZes

Put this sign on your cars roof.

excellent.

214 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:27:38pm

re: #190 ArmyWife

as an HR Director for a large chemical corp, we are doing creative things to keep things going - voluntary furloughs, shortened work weeks, bring your own lunch to lunch meetings, cut the cafeteria hours WAY back. So far we've not had a lay off, and I will continue to seek out new and inventive ways to save. $3000 saves about 3 people from having to take an unpaid furlough week, so every little bit counts.

Good for you. I wonder if other companies are doing the same.

215 Truck Monkey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:27:52pm

re: #211 pingjockey

MY oncologist!

I know. I forgot the sarc tag. Any combination of drugs and/or alcohol that makes me feel like the TV is watching me is not good at all.

216 ArmyWife  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:28:01pm

re: #206 anchors_aweigh

ok fine. I'll don my PPE and head over to DU to see if they are upset about all this war mongering. BRB. I hope.

217 yochanan  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:28:07pm

re: #206 anchors_aweigh

and don't expect to see unemployment lines either

218 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:28:42pm
219 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:29:01pm

re: #215 Truck Monkey
Oh wow. Haven't had that happen yet. The wife did talk to one of the kids at work, so I have pot connection!

220 Truck Monkey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:29:13pm

re: #198 yochanan

WHAT WILL TODAYS LIBERAL AND FINE ARTS GRADS HEAR ON THERE FIRST JOB?

It's $40 dollars for straight sex and you gotta wear a rubber.

221 ArmyWife  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:29:16pm

re: #212 DEZes

I don't know what that is, so I'd have to say no.

222 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:29:36pm

re: #175 buzzsawmonkey

"But that would be wrong."

--the current gang

Yeah, don't lovingly feed and nurture the tax revenue cow.

/just suckle right in there and chew all the teats off

223 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:29:39pm

re: #218 Iron Fist
Heh. We'll see.

224 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:29:47pm

re: #218 Iron Fist

Take a percocet with a shot of whiskey and relax. It probably won't be enough to kill you :-)

Do you use Michael Jackson's physician?

225 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:30:00pm

re: #216 ArmyWife
BE CAREFUL!

226 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:30:19pm

re: #208 pingjockey

Well hell. I thought it was funny. You really think it went over his head? Is he that clueless?

No, I he knew just what he was doing and it wasn't funny in the least. It was scary that the press secretary of the president of the united states could actually stand there and play dump to a very honest and straight forward question, and obviously come across like he knew just what they asked, and knew that there was no way he was going to give them an answer.

No, this didn't go over his head, and that's what we all should be concerned with.

227 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:30:30pm

re: #218 Iron Fist

Take a percocet with a shot of whiskey and relax. It probably won't be enough to kill you :-)

Whoa. In Spy DEZes dinged that up before it posted.

How good is THAT.

228 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:31:08pm

re: #221 ArmyWife

I don't know what that is, so I'd have to say no.

Its a combo acid most commonly used to dissolve gold.
Aqua regia is its most common name.

229 snowcrash  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:31:13pm

re: #218 Iron Fist
Dude, bad advice.

230 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:31:19pm

re: #226 Walter L. Newton
Okay, thanks Walter. You are really good at this. I only saw the clip once.

231 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:31:43pm

re: #226 Walter L. Newton

No, I he knew just what he was doing and it wasn't funny in the least. It was scary that the press secretary of the president of the united states could actually stand there and play dump to a very honest and straight forward question, and obviously come across like he knew just what they asked, and knew that there was no way he was going to give them an answer.

No, this didn't go over his head, and that's what we all should be concerned with.

Is it too late to ask for a recount on the election?
/

232 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:31:59pm

re: #219 pingjockey

Oh wow. Haven't had that happen yet. The wife did talk to one of the kids at work, so I have pot connection!

Herbal remedies are frequently the most effective. The only side effect is weight gain. ;)

233 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:32:04pm

re: #229 snowcrash
He was kidding!

234 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:32:07pm
235 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:32:08pm

re: #227 SasquatchOnSteroids

Whoa. In Spy DEZes dinged that up before it posted.

How good is THAT.

You should see me in a gun fight. ;)

236 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:32:31pm
237 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:33:12pm

The "Dirty Dozen" is on AMC at 8

238 Truck Monkey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:33:15pm

re: #235 DEZes

You should see me in a gun fight. ;)

Excuse me while I whip this out!

239 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:33:24pm

re: #232 doppelganglander
I'm gonna need to hang onto what weight I've got. 7 weeks of radiation when we get started and it's in my neck and I want to avoid that damn feeding tube in my stomach if I can!

240 eon  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:33:25pm

re: #221 ArmyWife

I don't know what that is, so I'd have to say no.

Aqua Regia?

3-to-1 mixture of nitric and hydrochloric acids. So called ("King's Water" or "Royal Water") because it will dissolve "noble metals such as gold, platinum, etc., although metals such as osmium and titanium are more resistant to its action.

cheers

eon

241 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:34:16pm

re: #236 buzzsawmonkey
Ah ha! Spot on, IMO.

242 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:34:33pm
243 VioletTiger  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:34:53pm

Listen to this bit of bull from one the the media wings of the Dumocratic party - MSNBC. They say 'forget those conservatives exist--we don't need bipartisanship!' It is truly unbelievable. And that Kos guy is a true geek if there ever was one. Ewww.

Funny, I thought about 53 million people voted against the Nanny State.

Senate Dems Should ‘Forget Republicans Exist’ Given New Filibuster-Proof Majority

244 snowcrash  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:35:05pm

re: #233 pingjockey

Sorry guys, didn't know that. Just wanted to protect your liver or brain.

245 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:36:01pm

re: #238 Truck Monkey

Excuse me while I whip this out!

And I thought the Eiffel tower was a piece of work.

246 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:36:05pm

re: #244 snowcrash

S'alright. We be having fun 'n shit!

247 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:36:07pm

re: #239 pingjockey

I'm gonna need to hang onto what weight I've got. 7 weeks of radiation when we get started and it's in my neck and I want to avoid that damn feeding tube in my stomach if I can!

Milkshakes! Seriously, I wasn't aware you were ill. My best wishes for successful treatment, minimal side effects, and a speedy return to health.

248 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:37:11pm

re: #243 VioletTiger
So much for checks and balances. Unless of course they load stuff with so many amendments none of them can agree to buy each other off.

249 McJenny50  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:37:48pm

re: #150 Pvt Bin Jammin


You may have some idea of how much you are loved for doing what you do. When our troops are over there, even the smallest touch of home will lift your spirits like you can't believe.

I got an extremely touching thank you from him when he finally got the date they would be heading home. Strangely enough - he is an immigrant from El Salvador and not real strong with English. :) Every time I got an email from him, I could tell he put a lot of effort into it.

250 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:37:51pm

re: #247 doppelganglander
Oh yeah. My 9 year old is eagerly awaiting be able to share!

251 eon  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:38:01pm

re: #243 VioletTiger

Listen to this bit of bull from one the the media wings of the Dumocratic party - MSNBC. They say 'forget those conservatives exist--we don't need bipartisanship!' It is truly unbelievable. And that Kos guy is a true geek if there ever was one. Ewww.

Funny, I thought about 53 million people voted against the Nanny State.

Senate Dems Should ‘Forget Republicans Exist’ Given New Filibuster-Proof Majority

Hmm, that took approximately 6.835 milliseconds longer than I thought it would.

"Nevertheless, it was inevitable" as Spock would say.

/Trekkie mode off.

cheers

eon

252 The Shadow Do  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:38:08pm

So, Obama is going to fight the "good war". Afghanistan surge and all of that.

Bull.
The proverbial rubber meets the road moment occurs when the current push does not end in sudden and complete capitulation of the enemy.

This is a long, hard, slog and not a one operation wonder. But for some, I suspect, it is little more than just another political maneuver. Posturing.

I am just cynical enough to think that when it becomes obvious that one "massive" operation does not equal unconditional surrender of Al Queda that the CINC will have just the opening he needs to call it quits.

Time will tell, but the pressure on him to cut and run has got to be on him big time and his sympathies run in that direction anyway.

There will be a lot of talk about how we hurt them and will now be able to focus on training and support for the leadership, keeping things under control, and then go home. Declaring the crisis over of course. Something along the lines of the peace with honor in Vietnam before selling them out by Dem defunding.

I hate to think this is all show and no go, but it probably is.

253 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:38:16pm

re: #239 pingjockey

I'm gonna need to hang onto what weight I've got. 7 weeks of radiation when we get started and it's in my neck and I want to avoid that damn feeding tube in my stomach if I can!

I'll be bowing my head for you, brother.
(and tipping it back once or twice as well)
For your health.

254 Lincolntf  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:38:20pm

Anyone see the Padres-Astros game or the highlights?
A 52-minute Bee Delay.

255 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:39:31pm
256 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:39:54pm

re: #253 SasquatchOnSteroids
Thank you! Tip away please.
With that nic are you up here in the Northwest?

257 ArmyWife  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:40:04pm

re: #228 DEZes

We have a lot of acids (we make sulfuric acid for our process), anhydrous ammonia, phenol, etc.

258 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:40:58pm

re: #257 ArmyWife
We have meth heads breaking into the farmers anhydrous amonia tanks and stealing it to make meth!

259 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:41:31pm

re: #257 ArmyWife

We have a lot of acids (we make sulfuric acid for our process), anhydrous ammonia, phenol, etc.

Coolness.

260 realwest  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:41:38pm

re: #256 pingjockey
Hey there ping! I received and replied just now to your e-mail!
Hope you enjoy this Fourth of July my friend!

261 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:42:12pm

re: #256 pingjockey

Thank you! Tip away please.
With that nic are you up here in the Northwest?

Northeast.
Concrete jungle.
Hard to scare up some game, but some of these pets running around are really trusting.

*Burp*

262 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:42:21pm

re: #258 pingjockey

We have meth heads breaking into the farmers anhydrous amonia tanks and stealing it to make meth!

Yup, they are bold about it too.

263 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:42:24pm

re: #260 realwest

Hey there ping! I received and replied just now to your e-mail!
Hope you enjoy this Fourth of July my friend!

Hey bro!
What's kicking Chick'n?
:)

264 restitutor orbis  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:43:08pm

It's times like this that make me wish in hindsight we had turned a blind eye to the Soviet occupation. Hell, maybe we should have helped them along.
As Orianna Fellaci said of the Afghan war..."The Soviets are what they are, but in this case we should thank them".

265 ArmyWife  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:43:10pm

DU Report -

There is a debate on the War Crimes currently being committed by Obama v. the Obama knows what he is doing and therefor this is rightous. One pointed out the 9-11 connection is invalid because the people we are "killing" over there were children at the time as that was 8 years ago. I guess they have an age limit on terrorists. Who knew?

266 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:44:07pm

re: #260 realwest
Hey there! We should have a blast...literally. My youngest bro and his wife couldn't have kids, so they steal mine! Which is fine by me, they have a ball!

267 VioletTiger  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:44:29pm

re: #255 buzzsawmonkey

I think that's great. And I am not kidding.

The braying exultation is out in the open. Let them own it all--every last legalized theft. Let the people see what they voted for in all its glory. Let the media ignore the Republicans--the more they do, the less whining about George Bush will ring true to the electorate.

And let the Republicans, shunned by the media, out of the limelight, take advantage of this to pull their act together.

I hope you are right. It will be rough going for a while.
2010!

268 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:44:39pm

re: #261 SasquatchOnSteroids
That's good. Do cats taste like chicken?

269 realwest  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:44:47pm

re: #252 The Shadow Do
"There will be a lot of talk about how we hurt them and will now be able to focus on training and support for the leadership, keeping things under control, and then go home. Declaring the crisis over of course. Something along the lines of the peace with honor in Vietnam before selling them out by Dem defunding.

I hate to think this is all show and no go, but it probably is."
Well as a Vietnam Vet who watched as our Democratic controlled Congress cut the aid funding that Nixon had promised South Vietnam, I find you're prognosis all too believeable, but I sure hope you're wrong!

270 ArmyWife  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:44:50pm

re: #258 pingjockey


and then they explode. Very bad news.

271 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:45:24pm
272 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:45:39pm

re: #265 ArmyWife
Did you do your decon procedures?

273 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:45:48pm
274 realwest  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:46:47pm

re: #263 HoosierHoops
I don't know what cooking - it's always a surprise, but since it's Mom doing the cooking and not me, I'm sure we'll avoid that unpleasant trip to the ER that always seems to come around when I cook! LOL!
We're doing fine today Hoops, I sure hope you are too my friend!

275 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:46:59pm

re: #250 pingjockey

Oh yeah. My 9 year old is eagerly awaiting be able to share!

Share the herb? What kind of commie lib family are you? ;)

276 ArmyWife  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:47:11pm

re: #272 pingjockey

No, our Safety Dept. does. I'm much less involved with this safety group than I was the last one. I'm still learning all the stuff we have - I do have an escape respirator, though. That's kinda neat!

I've got my hands full with the HR piece. I have 6 unions at this site.

277 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:48:37pm

re: #270 ArmyWife


was stationed in San Diego, late 96 IIRC, meth lab in the east county blew up. knocked a double wide trailer house completely over and left a crater where the lab was about 10 feet deep! And people are putting this shit in their bodies!

278 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:48:43pm

re: #264 restitutor orbis

It's times like this that make me wish in hindsight we had turned a blind eye to the Soviet occupation. Hell, maybe we should have helped them along.
As Orianna Fellaci said of the Afghan war..."The Soviets are what they are, but in this case we should thank them".


Yes comrade!
When you judge previous foreign policy directions and evaluations in a post in 4 lines.just my opinion...You'd better bring it...
That was the weakest cold war storyline policy statements I've seen in a long time...Sorry

279 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:48:57pm

re: #268 pingjockey

That's good. Do cats taste like chicken?

Actually, its chickens that taste like cats, but nobody has a rooster on a leash. How could they know ?

280 realwest  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:49:15pm

re: #273 Iron Fist
Hey Bro' - don't sweat what Obama and the Dems (damn if that doesn't sound like the name of a doo-wop group, like Dion and the Belmonts or something!)
may or may not do, SCOTUS ain't gonna take away or allow anyone to take away our guns.
But man I'd watch that ammo supply real close!

How are you doing today my friend?

281 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:49:16pm

re: #276 ArmyWife
Hehehe, no I meant upon your return from DU!

282 Aye Pod  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:49:31pm

From spin-offs:

For uk viewers: BBC : Conspiracy Files - 7/7bbc.co.uk (7)

Brilliant destruction of the often hilariously stupid conspiracy theries surrounding the London 7/7 bombings. Don't miss the revelations (and I use the word advisedly) about the author of the most popular 7/7 conspiracy video in the last sequence of the programme. Also points out the anti-semitism at the heart of many of the theories/theorists and the fact that these conspiracy theories are being used by our enemies.

"Nearly four years after the 7/7 bombings, England's worst terrorist atrocity, The Conspiracy Files investigates the conspiracy theories flourishing on the internet.

There have been three official reports into the bombings on 7th July 2005, which claimed the lives of 56 people and injured 784 others. The programme sees how conspiracy theories suggest four British Muslims were framed by the government, play on the fears of the Muslim community and spread a highly divisive and damaging message.

The Conspiracy Files: 7/7 examines the evidence in an attempt to separate fact from fiction.

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

Unfortunately it is yet to appear on youtube, hopefully we'll see it there in the next few days.

283 eon  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:50:06pm

re: #258 pingjockey

We have meth heads breaking into the farmers anhydrous amonia tanks and stealing it to make meth!

Around here, a lot of places no longer stock lye soap. Lye= Anhydrous sodium hydroxide, another ingredient of a meth cookout.

Oven cleaner also contains lye. I use it for cleaning my oven, plus as a paint stripper.

I'm wondering how soon they'll ban Easy-Off because meth heads have discovered that they can use it, too.

/IMHO, anybody who ingests anything with that stuff in it is halfway to a Darwin Award already.

cheers

eon

284 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:50:22pm

re: #275 doppelganglander
Ha, the milkshakes you nut! Now keeping the 15 year old out of the stash is going to be a chore. Lock box will fix that.

285 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:51:00pm

re: #279 SasquatchOnSteroids
Mwahaha!

286 realwest  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:52:17pm

re: #282 Jimmah
Hey Jimmah - unfortunately I can't get anywhere with your link - y'all have to be IN the UK to use it!
What do you think were the real facts of the 7/7 attacks?

287 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:52:31pm

re: #283 eon
You are correct. One of the construction outfits here had a bunch of batteries ripped off. Not to sell or use. The wannabe Darwin Award winners are using the battery acid somehow to make meth. Gaaah!

288 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:53:14pm

re: #277 pingjockey

was stationed in San Diego, late 96 IIRC, meth lab in the east county blew up. knocked a double wide trailer house completely over and left a crater where the lab was about 10 feet deep! And people are putting this shit in their bodies!

You've got me thinking "Spinal Tap drummer".

289 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:54:26pm

re: #288 SasquatchOnSteroids
Hahaha!
OMG it'll be 40 years July 20th.

290 Aye Pod  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:54:29pm

Speaking of acid...

291 realwest  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:54:47pm

re: #287 pingjockey
Man I have never tried Meth nor do I intend to, but how weird do y'all have to be to "do" a drug that uses either ammonia or battery acid (or both) in it's creation!

292 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:55:21pm
293 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:55:28pm

re: #284 pingjockey

Ha, the milkshakes you nut! Now keeping the 15 year old out of the stash is going to be a chore. Lock box will fix that.

LOL. You may have to lock up the bolt cutters, too.

294 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:55:47pm

That's the thing about America. We want even our idiots to be safe.

295 Aye Pod  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:56:20pm

re: #286 realwest

Hey Jimmah - unfortunately I can't get anywhere with your link - y'all have to be IN the UK to use it!
What do you think were the real facts of the 7/7 attacks?

I think it was, to quote south park, "a bunch of pissed off muslims".

I'm going to repost that video from youtube as soon as it appears there- hopefully in the next couple of days.

296 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:56:45pm

re: #291 realwest

Man I have never tried Meth nor do I intend to, but how weird do y'all have to be to "do" a drug that uses either ammonia or battery acid (or both) in it's creation!

I can't imagine how dumb you have to be to do meth. I watch "Intervention" all the time and just shake my head.

297 eon  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:56:50pm

re: #273 Iron Fist

The Democrats are better at keeping Party discipline than Republicans are. I wouldn't count on any of them (not even Joe Leiberman) breaking ranks on much of anything. Looks like Obama has the votes to pass gun control, even though he kind of (sort of, in a weasely way) said he wouldn't go there. They might not be able to get it through the House. Maybe. The House is more sensitive to the mood of voters, and the mood of the voters is clearly not in favor of more gun control.

Gah. It is shaping up to be a bad year.

The One, Pelosi, and Reid were told early this year by about 50 House and Senate Dems that any gun control measures they tried to introduce would be DOA- this year. They didn't say anything about next year. I'm wondering how many of the Dems who fired that shot across The One's bow were among the 40-odd Dems in the House who voted against Cap N' Tax.

As for The One, I think his personal opinion is along the lines of "You poor, unenlightened peasants need no longer cling to your guns and religion; I shall remove them, for now you have something better to adore. Me."

cheers

eon

298 The Shadow Do  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:56:59pm

re: #269 realwest

I hope I'm wrong to Real. I really do.

299 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:57:08pm

re: #291 realwest
No idea if weird comes into it! Clueless, crazy, death wish. The state had a series of pics on a billboard that I thought were brilliant. Shows this womans first arrest picture for meth, then 4 more, the physical changes were horrifying.

300 realwest  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:57:18pm

re: #295 Jimmah I agree with you about 7/7 - what the hell do the 7/7 Nirthers think happened?
Oh, wait, they blame it on Bush, right!

301 brookly red  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:57:36pm

re: #294 EmmmieG

That's the thing about America. We want even our idiots to be safe.

/Well at least while they are still in office...

302 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:57:52pm

re: #293 doppelganglander
Hah. Hope not. He's been a good kid about all the dope shit so far.

303 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:58:30pm

re: #291 realwest

Man I have never tried Meth nor do I intend to, but how weird do y'all have to be to "do" a drug that uses either ammonia or battery acid (or both) in it's creation!

Dude..What the heck was the name of that Baller that got drafted by Boston that died of a Coke OD?
That was tragic...How many lives has Coke and Meth destroyed?

304 ArmyWife  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:58:46pm

re: #281 pingjockey

OH! Haha. Yeah. Well, the Lizard Safety Dept takes care of that.

305 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:58:48pm

re: #302 pingjockey

Hah. Hope not. He's been a good kid about all the dope shit so far.

That's good news. The good kids do outnumber the problem children, you just don't hear about them.

306 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:59:07pm

re: #303 HoosierHoops

Dude..What the heck was the name of that Baller that got drafted by Boston that died of a Coke OD?
That was tragic...How many lives has Coke and Meth destroyed?

Len Bias? That goes way back.

307 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:59:35pm
308 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:59:43pm

re: #303 HoosierHoops
Len Bias or Lem Bias. Not sure of the spelling. 1st round draft choice, smokes some crack, has a coronary and dies.

309 VegasRick  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:59:46pm

re: #303 HoosierHoops

Dude..What the heck was the name of that Baller that got drafted by Boston that died of a Coke OD?
That was tragic...How many lives has Coke and Meth destroyed?

Len Bias, what a shame.

310 realwest  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 4:59:58pm

re: #303 HoosierHoops
Len Bias maybe? I think that was his name. Just a tragedy - dude could really PLAY.

311 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:00:02pm

re: #306 doppelganglander

Len Bias? That goes way back.

Thank you! See ? Who needs google?
I just couldn't recall his name. Thanks

312 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:00:09pm

re: #304 ArmyWife
That is good. We don't need any DU cooties!

313 callahan23  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:00:26pm

It is currently bad juju and huge stress at work. I will need my sleep now.
See y'all down the road.
I love you (Lizardim} - mostly.

(realwest) and (pingjockey) keep it strong, both of you.

314 SecondComing  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:00:36pm

re: #300 realwest

I agree with you about 7/7 - what the hell do the 7/7 Nirthers think happened?
Oh, wait, they blame it on Bush, right!

International bankers! (aka Jews)

315 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:01:01pm

re: #313 callahan23
Sleep well and thank you!

316 realwest  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:01:26pm

re: #313 callahan23
Hey (callahan23) - rest easy y'all - you've earned it!
Hope to see you tomorrow!

317 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:01:45pm

Goddamn, Huckster is doing O'Wrongly.

318 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:02:00pm

re: #297 eon

The One, Pelosi, and Reid were told early this year by about 50 House and Senate Dems that any gun control measures they tried to introduce would be DOA- this year. They didn't say anything about next year. I'm wondering how many of the Dems who fired that shot across The One's bow were among the 40-odd Dems in the House who voted against Cap N' Tax.

As for The One, I think his personal opinion is along the lines of "You poor, unenlightened peasants need no longer cling to your guns and religion; I shall remove them, for now you have something better to adore. Me."

cheers

eon

It is going to be very hard for any of the democrats from the upper tier states to get anyone behind gun control of any sort.

We look to much at the east and west coast. There is a lot of fly over country in between, especially the plains states and the far north states, who have democrats who are AGAINST gun controls.

It won't be easy, not in the least, it will probably always die.

319 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:02:29pm

re: #313 callahan23

It is currently bad juju and huge stress at work. I will need my sleep now.
See y'all down the road.
I love you (Lizardim} - mostly.

(realwest) and (pingjockey) keep it strong, both of you.

Take good care buddy.

320 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:02:54pm

re: #310 realwest

Len Bias maybe? I think that was his name. Just a tragedy - dude could really PLAY.

Thank you...I remember an article by Bill Simmons saying the Celtics down fall for years began the second he died...They never won till last year...
Drugs destroy everything within sight...

321 realwest  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:03:49pm

re: #319 DEZes Hey there DEZes! How are you doing tonight?

322 brookly red  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:04:32pm

re: #307 Iron Fist

When I was a kid (and bouncing around in the drug culture, although I didn't inhale :-) we used to joke that some people were such bad users that they'd do Draino. Some dumbass went and found a way to do just that. There are no limits to the depth of human stupidity.

Once upon atime they used to ether to process coca paste into cocaine, but when either got controlled other solvents were used including benzine... & certain cancer rates went waaay up.

323 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:04:44pm

re: #320 HoosierHoops

Thank you...I remember an article by Bill Simmons saying the Celtics down fall for years began the second he died...They never won till last year...
Drugs destroy everything within sight...

With you on that one. The damage done in my generation, and my parents' generation, in my family, has been huge.

324 eon  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:05:01pm

re: #291 realwest

Man I have never tried Meth nor do I intend to, but how weird do y'all have to be to "do" a drug that uses either ammonia or battery acid (or both) in it's creation!

Let alone one that, if you let the temp go too high while it's processing, can do an amazing impression of a 2-kilo TNT demo block going off!

cheers

eon

325 Aye Pod  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:05:14pm

re: #300 realwest

I agree with you about 7/7 - what the hell do the 7/7 Nirthers think happened?
Oh, wait, they blame it on Bush, right!

They think it was 1) The Joos 2) The New World Order Elite 3) Joos who ARE the New World Order Elite.

Despite the subject matter there are truly hilarious sequences in that programme. I nearly choked on my coffee when the showed a photo of a controlled demolition firm's van driving along beside the bus that was blown up. The idiotic suggestion being that this could not have been a coincidence, no, this was proof that the bus was destroyed in a controlled demolition. Yes, the NWO elite agent had driven alongside the bus, in his van with "Demolition Inc." or whatever proudly emblazoned along the side, and blown it up by 'remote control'. Srsly...

326 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:05:20pm
327 The Shadow Do  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:06:22pm

re: #320 HoosierHoops

Thank you...I remember an article by Bill Simmons saying the Celtics down fall for years began the second he died...They never won till last year...
Drugs destroy everything within sight...

Bias broke the continuum that was to be post Bird. Hurt the Celts real bad.

328 JCM  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:06:26pm

re: #307 Iron Fist

When I was a kid (and bouncing around in the drug culture, although I didn't inhale :-) we used to joke that some people were such bad users that they'd do Draino. Some dumbass went and found a way to do just that. There are no limits to the depth of human stupidity.

Fist, you mean you weren't an alter boy?
/;-P

329 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:07:11pm

re: #326 Iron Fist
It never has. I don't know what the answer is either. Interdiction, we get what. less than 10% of what is coming in? I don't know.

330 JCM  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:07:38pm

re: #325 Jimmah

They think it was 1) The Joos 2) The New World Order Elite 3) Joos who ARE the New World Order Elite.

Despite the subject matter there are truly hilarious sequences in that programme. I nearly choked on my coffee when the showed a photo of a controlled demolition firm's van driving along beside the bus that was blown up. The idiotic suggestion being that this could not have been a coincidence, no, this was proof that the bus was destroyed in a controlled demolition. Yes, the NWO elite agent had driven alongside the bus, in his van with "Demolition Inc." or whatever proudly emblazoned along the side, and blown it up by 'remote control'. Srsly...

Dang, I'm going to have the adjust the chemtrail formula for Great Britain...

331 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:07:48pm

re: #328 JCM

Fist, you mean you weren't an alter boy?
/;-P

Altar boy. But it can be pretty funny the other way.

(That would make him, like, one of the X-men or something.)

332 pingjockey  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:07:51pm

BBL. laundry and dinner!

333 realwest  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:08:32pm

re: #328 JCM Of course Iron Fist was an alter boy - but that was just for a few hours on Sundays! LOL! Good evening my friend!

334 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:09:03pm

re: #320 HoosierHoops

Thank you...I remember an article by Bill Simmons saying the Celtics down fall for years began the second he died...They never won till last year...
Drugs destroy everything within sight...

Had a kid at work that started doing meth, of course working was no longer an issue, he didnt, and was fired.
So he started stealing peoples catalytic converters off their cars. (small amounts of platinum are used in them).
And he also had the bright idea of cooking his own meth, blowing up the house his recently deceased grandmother willed him.
He went from a vibrant young kid to drooling idiot in less than 3 months.

335 Millicent Islam  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:09:24pm

re: #318 Walter L. Newton

It is going to be very hard for any of the democrats from the upper tier states to get anyone behind gun control of any sort.

We look to much at the east and west coast. There is a lot of fly over country in between, especially the plains states and the far north states, who have democrats who are AGAINST gun controls.

It won't be easy, not in the least, it will probably always die.

Completely agree. There's a lot of Democrats that love their guns; looking exclusively at the west and east coasts as representative of "democrat" is flawed, yet it's still done.

I don't see gun control ever happening. As a nation, the US likes its guns and that crosses party lines.

336 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:10:20pm

re: #323 EmmmieG

With you on that one. The damage done in my generation, and my parents' generation, in my family, has been huge.

I hear you.. I have seen it also...Maybe i should not say this..
A suicide bomber walks among strangers...
A drug user walks among family and hurts the ones that love them the most in this world... I have seen families destroyed by drugs...
It is so sad to see...

337 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:10:29pm

re: #321 realwest

Hey there DEZes! How are you doing tonight?

Getting ready for the long weekend, which started for me about 4 hours ago.
And how are you doing most outstanding Lizard?

338 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:11:55pm

re: #336 HoosierHoops

I hear you.. I have seen it also...Maybe i should not say this..
A suicide bomber walks among strangers...
A drug user walks among family and hurts the ones that love them the most in this world... I have seen families destroyed by drugs...
It is so sad to see...

Of all the things my parents have done, how they handled this, in our family, is the thing that leaves me in awe of them.

339 brookly red  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:12:05pm

re: #335 iceweasel

Completely agree. There's a lot of Democrats that love their guns; looking exclusively at the west and east coasts as representative of "democrat" is flawed, yet it's still done.

I don't see gun control ever happening. As a nation, the US likes its guns and that crosses party lines.

it would only take 5 judges...

340 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:12:08pm

re: #334 DEZes

Had a kid at work that started doing meth, of course working was no longer an issue, he didnt, and was fired.
So he started stealing peoples catalytic converters off their cars. (small amounts of platinum are used in them).
And he also had the bright idea of cooking his own meth, blowing up the house his recently deceased grandmother willed him.
He went from a vibrant young kid to drooling idiot in less than 3 months.

God, that's sad. I have also heard that meth causes permanent brain damage and lifelong cravings. The recidivism rate is astronomical.

341 realwest  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:12:29pm

Whoops, Mom just called dinner and I have to go.
For all of y'all who won't be on LGF tomorrow or the Fourth, please take just a little time to reflect on how fortunate we are to be Americans. How truly blessed we were to have the Founding Fathers that we had.
To paraphrase John F. Kennedy (addressing a room full of Nobel Laureates at a White House Dinner) "There has probably never been such an enormous amount of intellect and talent ever at a White House dinner before this.
Except, of course, when Thomas Jefferson ate dinner here alone."

342 Millicent Islam  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:12:32pm

re: #336 HoosierHoops

Very true. Meth is probably the most evil drug ever invented, with crack a close second. Destroys families; destroys the people who use them. They're not the same people any more.

343 The Shadow Do  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:12:54pm

re: #326 Iron Fist

The Drug War is working so well, isn't it?


No, but societal endorsement (leagalization) hold no promise either. Tough enough to raise kids without drug use being OK.

Don't know how you feel about that.

While I would not go all Taliban, I would make drug dealing much more onerous than it is now. One strike and out. For life.

If you are a user, we will help you. If you are a pusher, we will put your ass in a very dark and dreary place.

344 Flyers1974  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:13:06pm

re: #335 iceweasel

Hello again, I.C. Right on about gun control. You have to ask yourself, what do the Dems gain by pushing this. I don't think they gain a single vote. They can't do a 360, but they can shut up about it, which is what I think they'll do.

345 irongrampa  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:13:17pm

Late to this thread, so sorry if this has already been said, but I'm getting a strong whiff of Vietnam redux here.

346 JCM  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:13:20pm

re: #333 realwest

Of course Iron Fist was an alter boy - but that was just for a few hours on Sundays! LOL! Good evening my friend!

Doing well, beautiful day in the Great North Wet. Sunny mid 80's ( but if anyone asks it's raining). Got the truck back after some work, oil pressure sender and front bearings. Made some progress in the bathroom renovation.

347 VegasRick  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:13:38pm

re: #339 brookly red

it would only take 5 judges...

They already have 4.

348 Render  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:14:21pm

re: #159 Thanos

1: First batch of crops from this growing season is due just about now.

2: Our current allies in Pakistan aren't all that reliable or steadfast, seeing a lot of activity on our side of the border may help their morale and their own operations. Which strikes me as swinging the anvil to meet the hammer, but I'm not pressed as long as Al-Q and the Talib pedophiles are still in the middle.

3: The logistics issues seem to have been temporarily resolved by using an old American stand-by method - establishing huge dumps and massively overstockpiling. Several months of battlefield preparation are complete, the foreplay is over, its game time.

4: Camp Leatherneck (this Deathstar) is fully operational.

5: The Great Zero said, "Make it so."

(T: Not really for your benefit, I know you know)

===

Help The Great Zero win this war (in A-ghan), so we can hammer the Lib-Left with the abject hypocrisy of it all. They cannot fix the economy that they wrecked so that they could get a talking point for the last election. That "It's the economy, stupid" talking point will still be viable come next election.

TURN
ABOUT,
R

349 JCM  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:15:41pm

Karma... bites.

350 Sharmuta  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:16:17pm

re: #335 iceweasel

When you look at data on American political views on an issue breakdown, Americans tend to agree much more with conservatives, at least Goldwater/Reagan conservatives. But for some reason, the party breakdown is the opposite of this. I've found this to be true for a number of years on a personal level, where I can get "liberals" to agree with most of my (Goldwater) conservatives principles, only later to be surprised when I tell them I'm a republican.

To me, this suggests a major flaw in the right, where we're obviously not articulating or otherwise getting our message across. Thankfully, slightly more savvy conservatives are starting to work their way into the party. It all depends on if we can get back to fiscal responsibility. That's the issue American care about at this point.

351 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:16:20pm

re: #340 doppelganglander

God, that's sad. I have also heard that meth causes permanent brain damage and lifelong cravings. The recidivism rate is astronomical.

The brain damage is evident very fast, the kid went from doing trigonometry with a pencil to having trouble adding or subtracting single digit numbers.
Sad part is, I really liked the kid.

352 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:16:31pm

re: #342 iceweasel

Very true. Meth is probably the most evil drug ever invented, with crack a close second. Destroys families; destroys the people who use them. They're not the same people any more.

Ice...Hope today finds you well...I lost some friends in the 80's as did we all..
This subject upsets me so much I'm going to change the subject...
What is everybody doing for 4th of July BBQ?
Any lizard cookbook stuff?

353 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:17:25pm

re: #344 Flyers1974

Hello again, I.C. Right on about gun control. You have to ask yourself, what do the Dems gain by pushing this. I don't think they gain a single vote. They can't do a 360, but they can shut up about it, which is what I think they'll do.

they are more obsessed about gun ownership than gun owners...a very unhealthy predisposed need to organize other peoples lives, the backbone of liberalism

354 JCM  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:17:58pm

re: #348 Render

Render!

Starting early today, you usually check in after I check out.

Excellent

Post.

355 Millicent Islam  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:18:21pm

re: #344 Flyers1974

Hello again, I.C. Right on about gun control. You have to ask yourself, what do the Dems gain by pushing this. I don't think they gain a single vote. They can't do a 360, but they can shut up about it, which is what I think they'll do.

Hey Flyers! Agree. It's a losing issue for the Dems, so why don't they shut up? I hope they will.

Here's an article from a couple of weeks ago about how TN is passing the most open gun laws in the country. They'll even let you carry in bars and restaurants. The GOP there sees it as a winning issue for them in 2010, and the Dems say they're right.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

356 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:19:31pm

re: #351 DEZes

The brain damage is evident very fast, the kid went from doing trigonometry with a pencil to having trouble adding or subtracting single digit numbers.
Sad part is, I really liked the kid.

It makes me really grateful my kids have stayed away from drugs.

357 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:19:35pm

re: #342 iceweasel

Very true. Meth is probably the most evil drug ever invented, with crack a close second. Destroys families; destroys the people who use them. They're not the same people any more.

I dinged you...and By the way.. I know you are on the left side of the line sometimes... But I like you and you are good people...
The Hoopster is watching your back...You be yourself...

358 ArmyWife  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:20:36pm

re: #352 HoosierHoops

Mr. Armywife should be walking in the door any minute (assuming 95 traffic from MD wasn't horrendous). Tomorrow is his 37th b-day do I'll make his favorite strawberry shortcake (the real kind) as it is his favorite, and we are going to a friends house who was transferred to Ft. Lee ahead of us on Sat. Still looking for a good fireworks spot.

and you?

359 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:20:46pm

re: #352 HoosierHoops

Ice...Hope today finds you well...I lost some friends in the 80's as did we all..
This subject upsets me so much I'm going to change the subject...
What is everybody doing for 4th of July BBQ?
Any lizard cookbook stuff?

I'm crossing the river so we can blow some stuff up with pyromaniac grandpa. Fireworks in Oregon are serious weenie territory.

360 Millicent Islam  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:21:09pm

re: #350 Sharmuta

When you look at data on American political views on an issue breakdown, Americans tend to agree much more with conservatives, at least Goldwater/Reagan conservatives. But for some reason, the party breakdown is the opposite of this. I've found this to be true for a number of years on a personal level, where I can get "liberals" to agree with most of my (Goldwater) conservatives principles, only later to be surprised when I tell them I'm a republican.

To me, this suggests a major flaw in the right, where we're obviously not articulating or otherwise getting our message across. Thankfully, slightly more savvy conservatives are starting to work their way into the party. It all depends on if we can get back to fiscal responsibility. That's the issue American care about at this point.

They'll agree with fiscal conservatism, but not social. The country now is either centrist or slightly left of, socially. I'd say part of the problem is that the message isn't getting out, and part of it is that the GOP has been sending the wrong message (Bush spending was hardly a beacon of fiscal conservatism).

(i just emailed you, btw)

361 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:21:34pm

re: #358 ArmyWife

Mr. Armywife should be walking in the door any minute (assuming 95 traffic from MD wasn't horrendous). Tomorrow is his 37th b-day do I'll make his favorite strawberry shortcake (the real kind) as it is his favorite, and we are going to a friends house who was transferred to Ft. Lee ahead of us on Sat. Still looking for a good fireworks spot.

and you?

Rock the world for him.

362 Millicent Islam  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:22:08pm

re: #357 HoosierHoops

I dinged you...and By the way.. I know you are on the left side of the line sometimes... But I like you and you are good people...
The Hoopster is watching your back...You be yourself...

Hoops! What a sweetie you are. You know you're one of my favourites, right?

( hugs)

363 eon  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:23:49pm

re: #318 Walter L. Newton

It is going to be very hard for any of the democrats from the upper tier states to get anyone behind gun control of any sort.

We look to much at the east and west coast. There is a lot of fly over country in between, especially the plains states and the far north states, who have democrats who are AGAINST gun controls.

It won't be easy, not in the least, it will probably always die.

Sort of like the present administration's determination to "stop gun smuggling into Mexico". Last week the heads of the Border Patrol, ICE, and BATFE werre called in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee (IOW, Chuckie Schumer), to explain why they "haven't found all the guns being smuggled south into Mexico".

The guy from BATFE said he needed more money, resources, etc., to close off all the "corridors", and increased surveillance of gun dealers and manufacturers here. While his guys are going house-to-house in Texas, etc., checking on anyone who buys or owns a gun they regard as a "drug dealer's" gun. (Think semiauto rifles, semiauto pistols, etc.)

As for the heads of ICE and BP, they said they weren't finding the guns because as far as they could tell, the Mexican government was grossly overinflating the numbers of U.S.-sourced guns they were "recovering". They didn't quite accuse the Mexican government of lying, but there was a clear implication that (a) most of the U.S. made arms in drug cartels' hands in Mexico came from stocks sold to the Mexican government by the U.S. government for the Mexican police (which are thoroughly penetrated by the cartels), and that (b) the Mexican President was telling The One (who fundamentally hates guns and gun owners) what The One wants to hear to keep U.S. aid coming.

Three guesses who Schumer & Co. put more stock in. Two don't count.

cheers

eon

364 Macker  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:23:49pm

re: #70 callahan23

I don't know where I got this from, but it is good:

“It’s God’s responsibility
to forgive Bin Laden”

“It’s our responsibility to
arrange the meeting”

United States Marine Corps

GOD, and not Allah!

365 JCM  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:24:37pm

Suspicion visitor in seal skin coat attempting to steal police boat...

366 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:24:44pm

re: #359 EmmmieG

I'm crossing the river so we can blow some stuff up with pyromaniac grandpa. Fireworks in Oregon are serious weenie territory.

They will sell you anything in Indiana... If you look hard enough suitcase Nukes are probably available for the big bang...
Really...This place is crazy...:)
Firecrackers? .putshaw! I laugh at you!

367 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:25:54pm

re: #352 HoosierHoops

Kicking back, half asleep in my hammock, and thanking Men courageous enough so long ago to give me and my family the opportunity to live in America.

How.Lucky.Are.We.

368 Macker  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:26:06pm

re: #80 LGoPs

If it absolutely, positively has to be destroyed overnight, call 1-800-USMC.

10,000 updings!

369 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:26:36pm

re: #367 SasquatchOnSteroids

Kicking back, half asleep in my hammock, and thanking Men courageous enough so long ago to give me and my family the opportunity to live in America.

How.Lucky.Are.We.

Damned fine post.

370 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:26:52pm

re: #350 Sharmuta

When you look at data on American political views on an issue breakdown, Americans tend to agree much more with conservatives, at least Goldwater/Reagan conservatives. But for some reason, the party breakdown is the opposite of this. I've found this to be true for a number of years on a personal level, where I can get "liberals" to agree with most of my (Goldwater) conservatives principles, only later to be surprised when I tell them I'm a republican.

To me, this suggests a major flaw in the right, where we're obviously not articulating or otherwise getting our message across. Thankfully, slightly more savvy conservatives are starting to work their way into the party. It all depends on if we can get back to fiscal responsibility. That's the issue American care about at this point.

Too many social conservatives, religions, creationist types, and not enough fiscal conservatives.
Maybe Mitt would have a good chance of winning a national election. While socially conservative for Massachusetts, he's probably socially liberal enough for most of the country. And his fiscal credentials are very good.

371 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:27:50pm
372 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:27:56pm

re: #370 Kosh's Shadow

By this you mean that he actually knows how a business makes money?

373 ArmyWife  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:27:57pm

re: #361 DEZes

I should probably proof read my posts! That one was interesting. Must be the pomegranite ice tea.

374 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:29:05pm

re: #369 DEZes

Damned fine post.

thx, Master.

375 JCM  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:29:24pm

re: #373 ArmyWife

I should probably proof read my posts! That one was interesting. Must be the pomegranite ice tea.

Or what's in there besides pomegranate and tea.

376 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:29:53pm

re: #373 ArmyWife

I should probably proof read my posts! That one was interesting. Must be the pomegranite ice tea.

I was thinking long island. ;)

377 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:30:32pm

re: #372 EmmmieG

By this you mean that he actually knows how a business makes money?

Yes! He's made plenty. (Staples, for example, is one of the companies incubated by Bain Capital when he was there, IIRC)

If he took over a company, he'd know what he was doing - but he knows enough not to have the government take one over.

378 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:30:40pm

re: #362 iceweasel

Hoops! What a sweetie you are. You know you're one of my favourites, right?

( hugs)

I check all your shit out..
You are honest and forthcoming
You do not lie and spin
You are good people...
We rarely agree...ok 50 % or so
I respect you...
The hoopster

379 wiffersnapper  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:30:42pm

Here's hoping that soldier gets back into safe hands.

380 VegasRick  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:31:22pm

re: #362 iceweasel

Hoops! What a sweetie you are. You know you're one of my favourites, right?

( hugs)

Careful Ice, hugging leads to kissing and we all know what kissing leads to!
/

381 ggt  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:31:41pm

Hello Evening Lizards! I'm foregoing the nightly weather report because I am P!SSED beyond belief.

Home from work, still sick as h@ll, so I decide to search the TV listings. I find a CNBC report called Marijuana Inc.

WTF!

382 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:31:42pm

Its strangely quite for a fourth weekend, the neighbors must be sand bagging.

383 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:31:45pm
384 ArmyWife  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:32:00pm

Mr. Armywife is home - gonna open a bottle of wine. See y'all manana!

385 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:32:33pm

re: #380 VegasRick

Careful Ice, hugging leads to kissing and we all know what kissing leads to!
/

Pork?

386 Millicent Islam  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:33:18pm

re: #371 Iron Fist


No, there is plenty of gun control laws on the books. Most of them are probably unconstitutional, although the SCOTUS hasn't thrown them out yet. Whether or not it will throw them out depends largely on what justices are replaced in the Obama Administration. If, for example, Justice Kennedy stepped down, Obama could appoint a judge that would reverse the historic Heller decision, in adddition to finding the various laws that are on the books acceptible. One justice is all that stands in the way, and he is an inconsistent Justice.

I wouldn't bet on anything being thrown out, but I think it's possible that nothing new will be passed, and that the laws on the books will continue to be erratically enforced. There just isn't that much popular support for it.

If gun violence suddenly dramatically increased--if we had something like the crack epidemic levels of violence again-- then all bets would be off.

But what's Heller? and are there any cases being brought to SCOTUS seeking to overturn it? And what's the likelihood of one being brought and getting all the way to SCOTUS, rather than being settled at a lower court? (I ask because I don't know; this isn't one of the issues at SCOTUS that I track.)

387 brookly red  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:33:44pm

re: #385 DEZes

Pork?

/ing

388 irongrampa  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:34:01pm

re: #384 ArmyWife

Have the best Independence Day possible, nice lady.

389 Joshua Cohen  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:34:12pm

re: #80 LGoPs

If it absolutely, positively has to be destroyed overnight, call 1-800-USMC.

NO! You call 1-800-AIRFORCE! :P
They do it quick and they do it big.
World wide delivery service in 12h or less!
And it is always served hot.

SCNR - I am a former pilot.

390 VegasRick  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:34:22pm

re: #385 DEZes

Pork?

Porking!
/

391 ggt  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:34:25pm

re: #363 eon

Sort of like the present administration's determination to "stop gun smuggling into Mexico". Last week the heads of the Border Patrol, ICE, and BATFE werre called in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee (IOW, Chuckie Schumer), to explain why they "haven't found all the guns being smuggled south into Mexico".

The guy from BATFE said he needed more money, resources, etc., to close off all the "corridors", and increased surveillance of gun dealers and manufacturers here. While his guys are going house-to-house in Texas, etc., checking on anyone who buys or owns a gun they regard as a "drug dealer's" gun. (Think semiauto rifles, semiauto pistols, etc.)

As for the heads of ICE and BP, they said they weren't finding the guns because as far as they could tell, the Mexican government was grossly overinflating the numbers of U.S.-sourced guns they were "recovering". They didn't quite accuse the Mexican government of lying, but there was a clear implication that (a) most of the U.S. made arms in drug cartels' hands in Mexico came from stocks sold to the Mexican government by the U.S. government for the Mexican police (which are thoroughly penetrated by the cartels), and that (b) the Mexican President was telling The One (who fundamentally hates guns and gun owners) what The One wants to hear to keep U.S. aid coming.

Three guesses who Schumer & Co. put more stock in. Two don't count.

cheers

eon

As far as I remember there was a report some months ago about the guns confiscated in Mexican drug raids. Of the small percent of guns they were able to trace a majority of them came from the US. Now, read that sentence again and you understand how the "intelligensia" is marketing this topic.

I'm still wigged about at Mendicino County, CA. Don't get me started on guns.

392 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:34:52pm

re: #384 ArmyWife

Mr. Armywife is home - gonna open a bottle of wine. See y'all manana!

Have fun.

393 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:35:01pm

re: #380 VegasRick

Careful Ice, hugging leads to kissing and we all know what kissing leads to!
/

Don't make me come over there!
*wink*

394 ArmyWife  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:35:09pm

re: #388 irongrampa

thank you!

395 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:36:15pm

OT: I've used a propane torch to peel peppers before but it works for tomatoes too. Much easier than the boiling water thing...


Just tried it. Works great!

396 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:36:19pm

re: #381 ggt

Hello Evening Lizards! I'm foregoing the nightly weather report because I am P!SSED beyond belief.

Home from work, still sick as h@ll, so I decide to search the TV listings. I find a CNBC report called Marijuana Inc.

WTF!

If they regulated and taxed it, California would once again be the world's 8th largest economy.

397 VegasRick  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:36:40pm

re: #393 HoosierHoops

Don't make me come over there!
*wink*

*hides behind DEZes spaceship

398 Millicent Islam  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:36:41pm

re: #378 HoosierHoops

The respect and liking is totally mutual Hoops. And I know you're good people because it's just so dang obvious that you are.

Plus, you're just likable!

/love love love the Hoopster

399 ggt  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:37:03pm

re: #396 doppelganglander

If they regulated and taxed it, California would once again be the world's 8th largest economy.

THEY DO! I'm not joking. Growers pay State and Federal Tax.

400 BignJames  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:37:36pm

Get a room, guys.

401 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:37:40pm

re: #397 VegasRick

*hides behind DEZes spaceship

Careful of that gravity drive.

402 Millicent Islam  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:38:09pm

re: #401 DEZes

Careful of that gravity drive.

Oh is THAT what we're calling it these days?

403 VegasRick  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:38:17pm

re: #400 BignJames

Get a room, guys.

LOL!

404 eon  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:38:21pm

re: #355 iceweasel

Hey Flyers! Agree. It's a losing issue for the Dems, so why don't they shut up? I hope they will.

Here's an article from a couple of weeks ago about how TN is passing the most open gun laws in the country. They'll even let you carry in bars and restaurants. The GOP there sees it as a winning issue for them in 2010, and the Dems say they're right.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

The statement from the Brady Center mouthpiece that "there are few gun laws" in this country is pathetic, and revealing. Between local, state, and Federal statutes, there are about 30,000 "gun laws" on the books in this country, and most of them have been in force for upwards of fifty years. (The most famous, New York's "Sullivan Law", dates to 1891.)

Saying we have "too few gun laws" is sort of like saying the Federal budget isn't big enough to allow the government to do its job properly. It tells me that the speaker is living in a different reality than the one I live in.

And in his, the only "safe" number of guns owned by citizens is...zero.


cheers

eon

405 Lincolntf  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:38:37pm

"Really, Andy? It's Christmas and you're singing about naked people and France..."

-"Angela" on the Office re-run I'm watching.

Got me in the funny bone.

406 Syrah  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:38:46pm

re: #396 doppelganglander

If they regulated and taxed it, California would once again be the world's 8th largest economy.

I don't care what people smoke.

I really don't want the government getting any more money or doing anymore regulating.

407 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:39:06pm

re: #402 iceweasel

Oh is THAT what we're calling it these days?

;)

408 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:39:31pm

re: #399 ggt

THEY DO! I'm not joking. Growers pay State and Federal Tax.

I didn't see that in the article - I assume you mean income tax?

409 brookly red  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:39:49pm

re: #396 doppelganglander

If they regulated and taxed it, California would once again be the world's 8th largest economy.

so I should buy Doretios stock, huh?

410 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:40:15pm
411 Millicent Islam  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:40:37pm

re: #404 eon


Saying we have "too few gun laws" is sort of like saying the Federal budget isn't big enough to allow the government to do its job properly. It tells me that the speaker is living in a different reality than the one I live in.

I thought this had been the comeback to this claim for a long time, no?
"We don't need more gun laws, we just need to enforce the ones on the books"
?

Isn't that usually how the debate goes?

412 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:41:09pm

Corporate weed is fascism!

413 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:41:09pm

more disconnect...hold on to your socks

[Link: www.wral.com...]

414 ggt  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:41:10pm

re: #406 Syrah

I don't care what people smoke.

I really don't want the government getting any more money or doing anymore regulating.

Well, from what I gather, it's a matter of enforcement. Local law enforcement and elected officials estimate 60% of the population is involved in the marijuana industry in Mendicino county. I AM NOT JOKING.

What the journalist is showing in the episode is beyond imagination.

415 VegasRick  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:41:16pm

re: #409 brookly red

so I should buy Doretios stock, huh?

Are you planning on making Doretios soup?

416 irongrampa  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:41:36pm

Should be a fun weekend for us, one of our adoptees through Soldiers Angels that we discovered lives only a short distance from us is going to be here for the duration. Super nice guy, they have 2 girls, both are sweethearts. What a pleasant surprise to find they lived so close.

Our total is dwindling, most ofd them are home now, at one time we had 8 or 9,iirc. Would have adopted them ALL, if it were possible.

417 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:41:47pm

re: #411 iceweasel

Actually, the debate is usually: We don't need some of the laws on the books, because they don't do what you think they do.

418 ggt  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:41:55pm

re: #408 doppelganglander

I didn't see that in the article - I assume you mean income tax?

The article is a promo for the TV special on CNBC, which I am watching right now. I'm 3/4 of the way thru.

Yes, income tax --corporate tax to be specific.

419 Millicent Islam  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:42:27pm

re: #412 Killgore Trout

Corporate weed is fascism!

A libertarian is a Republican who smokes pot; an anarchist is a libertarian without a bank account.

:)

420 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:42:35pm

re: #412 Killgore Trout

Corporate weed is fascism!

finally you make sense...it is

421 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:42:47pm

re: #406 Syrah

I don't care what people smoke.

I really don't want the government getting any more money or doing anymore regulating.

I can understand that, but it still shouldn't be available to children. If it were regulated the way alcohol and tobacco are, it would at least make it harder for kids to get it.

Lincolntf: I'm also watching The Office and lol'ing. Meredith's intervention fits nicely with our drug discussion.

422 brookly red  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:43:35pm

re: #415 VegasRick

Are you planning on making Doretios soup?

Campbells tomato soup & Doretios & favorite in dorms everywhere!

423 ggt  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:43:40pm

re: #410 Iron Fist

Actually, if there were some form of legalization it would probably be easier to keep it out of the hands of minors. Get really, really tough on anyon supplying drugs to minors. As things stand now, most drug dealers will sell to anyone with the money. I knew a guy in Tallahassee that wouldn't sell to anyone under 18, but he is definately the exception to the rule.

There are arguement to be made on both sides, and I really don't know what the answer is. All I know is that what we are doing now is failing miserably. Drug use is an epidemic, drug violence is an epidemic. Drugs being illegal only keeps the most casually interested person from getting them.

I think my big concern is whole communities becoming the US version of South American Cartel communities. These businesses are big and that attracts organized crime. No way out of it. The comminity is already experiencing major problems.

424 Syrah  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:43:43pm

re: #414 ggt

Well, from what I gather, it's a matter of enforcement. Local law enforcement and elected officials estimate 60% of the population is involved in the marijuana industry in Mendicino county. I AM NOT JOKING.

What the journalist is showing in the episode is beyond imagination.

I would not be surprised too terribly much if that were true, but the number seems to be exaggerated. They are probably stretching to the bending point how the define "involved."

425 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:44:03pm

re: #419 iceweasel

Heh.

426 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:44:26pm

re: #382 DEZes

Its strangely quite for a fourth weekend, the neighbors must be sand bagging.

heh. One of our neighbors ?
Straight out redneck. Unbelievable. There will be a show. Who knows what.
They look like normal people, really.
But they're not.

427 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:44:42pm

Lgf is running really slow for me again.

428 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:45:20pm

re: #427 Killgore Trout

Lgf is running really slow for me again.

Try the torch. ;)

429 Lincolntf  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:45:26pm

re: #421 doppelganglander

"...best way to kill a zombie..."

430 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:45:28pm

Seattle is ahead 3 to 2
Where are the Yankee fans? Locked in a closet with a handgun?
Hehe

431 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:45:57pm

re: #423 ggt

I think my big concern is whole communities becoming the US version of South American Cartel communities. These businesses are big and that attracts organized crime. No way out of it. The comminity is already experiencing major problems.

Prohibition attracts crime. I really think legalization of marijuana (not hard drugs) would be better than the alternative.

432 ggt  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:46:00pm

re: #424 Syrah

I would not be surprised too terribly much if that were true, but the number seems to be exaggerated. They are probably stretching to the bending point how the define "involved."

I don't think so. I highly recommend watching the show if/when it comes on your TV. People were talking openly about their businesses (because of the laws in California they are not afraid of prosecution).

433 Millicent Islam  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:46:02pm

re: #414 ggt

Well, from what I gather, it's a matter of enforcement. Local law enforcement and elected officials estimate 60% of the population is involved in the marijuana industry in Mendicino county. I AM NOT JOKING.

What the journalist is showing in the episode is beyond imagination.

I'd read that pot was (supposedly) actually the biggest crop in three or four states. CA was one of them. (this is a while ago)

Have to agree with iron fist that if drugs were legalised that would do *more* to keep it away from minors. In my misspent youth, we had a harder time getting cigarettes or alcohol (because we had to steal them or get someone else to buy them) than we did getting drugs.

434 ShanghaiEd  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:46:06pm

re: #350 Sharmuta

When you look at data on American political views on an issue breakdown, Americans tend to agree much more with conservatives, at least Goldwater/Reagan conservatives. But for some reason, the party breakdown is the opposite of this. I've found this to be true for a number of years on a personal level, where I can get "liberals" to agree with most of my (Goldwater) conservatives principles, only later to be surprised when I tell them I'm a republican.

To me, this suggests a major flaw in the right, where we're obviously not articulating or otherwise getting our message across. Thankfully, slightly more savvy conservatives are starting to work their way into the party. It all depends on if we can get back to fiscal responsibility. That's the issue American care about at this point.

Much truth in what you say, I think. I'd only add two quibbles...it's not a question of "getting the message across," so much as the fact that a generation of politicians have paid lip service (if that) to Goldwater and Reagan while voting in an entirely different way. Their message was in their votes, not their speeches, and people got fed up with it.

Also, I think that "fiscal responsibility" in our current dilemma is entirely different than fiscal responsibility in Goldwater's and Reagan's time. Sort of like discussing "water conservation" while a house is on fire. It's a great thing in principle, but the playing field has shifted. Just pretending that spending and taxes are "bad" in the same way they were in brighter times is extremely counterproductive, and I think most voters realize this.

435 Sharmuta  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:47:03pm

re: #398 iceweasel

The respect and liking is totally mutual Hoops. And I know you're good people because it's just so dang obvious that you are.

Plus, you're just likable!

/love love love the Hoopster

I'd like to second this. Hoops is a terrific person, and becoming better friends with him has been a blessing.

436 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:47:24pm

relax...BO will take care of Putin for us

[Link: www.detnews.com...]

437 NelsFree  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:47:45pm

Good evening all,

Once I logged in, I quickly scrolled down the threads list. I noticed the subjects and number of posts formed some sort of correlation. While quite unscientific (and absolutely NOT Creationist), I present the information for consideration:
Afghanistan Offensive: 400+
Picture of a Pier: 638
Salon for peddling political influence: 123
Arabs with clenched fists: 376
Norks firing missles into the sea: 45
The Love Gov: 1,119
What does this say about our priorities?

Other than the above, what have I missed?

438 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:48:29pm

re: #400 BignJames

Get a room, guys.

I try to build friendly relationships with all the lizards...Be nice...
:)

439 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:48:34pm

Ahhh...

*running around in a circle*

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

They're coming, they're coming, they're coming...

440 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:48:38pm

For those who missed it this morning: I found a Baby Hummingbird by my pond this morning. He was a little bit larger than a gold ball and couldn't fly yet. After about an hour or so he finally figured it out and took off. Made me happy all day.

441 Sharmuta  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:48:40pm

re: #412 Killgore Trout

Corporate weed is fascism!

I stuck this one in my favorites. LOL

442 ggt  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:48:50pm

re: #433 iceweasel

I'd read that pot was (supposedly) actually the biggest crop in three or four states. CA was one of them. (this is a while ago)

Have to agree with iron fist that if drugs were legalised that would do *more* to keep it away from minors. In my misspent youth, we had a harder time getting cigarettes or alcohol (because we had to steal them or get someone else to buy them) than we did getting drugs.

Kids are living in the house where these farms are growing. Going to school smelling like pot.

443 Syrah  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:48:52pm

re: #421 doppelganglander

I can understand that, but it still shouldn't be available to children. If it were regulated the way alcohol and tobacco are, it would at least make it harder for kids to get it.

Lincolntf: I'm also watching The Office and lol'ing. Meredith's intervention fits nicely with our drug discussion.

Regulating cigarettes and tobacco has done damn little to keep them out of the hands of kids.

I think that we should be very cautious and hesitant about what we want to use police authority to enforce.

Drugs are bad.

Officious busybody bureaucrats out to save me from myself are far worse.

444 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:49:25pm

re: #437 NelsFree

Good evening all,

Once I logged in, I quickly scrolled down the threads list. I noticed the subjects and number of posts formed some sort of correlation. While quite unscientific (and absolutely NOT Creationist), I present the information for consideration:
Afghanistan Offensive: 400+
Picture of a Pier: 638
Salon for peddling political influence: 123
Arabs with clenched fists: 376
Norks firing missles into the sea: 45
The Love Gov: 1,119
What does this say about our priorities?

Other than the above, what have I missed?


I hate to burst your bubble, but sometimes it's the topic, and sometimes it's the length of time before another thread is posted. Most of us gravitate to the newest thread, unless we really don't like the topic.

445 Syrah  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:49:29pm

re: #432 ggt

I don't think so. I highly recommend watching the show if/when it comes on your TV. People were talking openly about their businesses (because of the laws in California they are not afraid of prosecution).

I will take a look.

446 BignJames  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:51:11pm

re: #443 Syrah


Officious busybody bureaucrats out to save me from myself are far worse.


It's all about control.

447 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:51:28pm

re: #441 Sharmuta

Sadly, it will never make a rotating title.

448 Syrah  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:51:50pm

re: #446 BignJames

Officious busybody bureaucrats out to save me from myself are far worse.

It's all about control.

I control poorly.

Pity my poor masters.

449 Gearhead  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:52:13pm

re: #413 albusteve

more disconnect...hold on to your socks

[Link: www.wral.com...]

"There were estimates from a few pennies or a few dollars a month, and estimates I heard all the way to $4,000 a year for a typical household," Hughes said. "It's probably somewhere in the middle."

Great. I'm not broke enough, y'know. I still have a little CHANGE left to subsidize other people.

450 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:52:14pm

re: #433 iceweasel

I'd read that pot was (supposedly) actually the biggest crop in three or four states. CA was one of them. (this is a while ago)

Have to agree with iron fist that if drugs were legalised that would do *more* to keep it away from minors. In my misspent youth, we had a harder time getting cigarettes or alcohol (because we had to steal them or get someone else to buy them) than we did getting drugs.

Sure.
Let's say you are a liquor store owner. Sell booze to kids, and you can get put out of business and fined. Sell only to adults, and you're a member of the business community.

Now, say you sell drugs. Sell to kids, and you can probably plea bargain down to the penalty you'd get for selling to adults. Maybe a bit more, but you still end up spending a significant chunk of time in prison either way.

Which has the incentive to keep the product out of the hands of kids?

And when was the last time you heard of liquor distributors shooting each other over the rights to distribute liquor? Sometime during Prohibition, I'd guess.

I'd allow sales to adults of at least pot, and tax the stuff to cover the cost of enforcement and rehab for anyone who wants it.

451 NelsFree  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:52:47pm

re: #444 EmmmieG

I hate to burst your bubble,


Well, even my kids call me "Pop"!
/sometimes

452 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:53:00pm

re: #438 HoosierHoops

I try to build friendly relationships with all the lizards...Be nice...
:)

Stop touching me.
///

453 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:53:17pm

re: #444 EmmmieG

I hate to burst your bubble, but sometimes it's the topic, and sometimes it's the length of time before another thread is posted. Most of us gravitate to the newest thread, unless we really don't like the topic.

I agree. When Charles posts two important threads back to back, the earlier one is often overlooked. The longest threads are almost always way OT, unless we're mocking a presidential address in real time.

454 BignJames  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:53:53pm

re: #448 Syrah

I control poorly.

Pity my poor masters.


Obstinate, eh? His Awesomeness is gonna' fix your wagon.

455 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:54:01pm

re: #453 doppelganglander

I agree. When Charles posts two important threads back to back, the earlier one is often overlooked. The longest threads are almost always way OT, unless we're mocking a presidential address in real time.

Which is great fun.

456 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:54:59pm

re: #452 DEZes

Stop touching me.
///

I'm trying to sic my dog on you..But he is so lazy..

457 ggt  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:55:17pm

Mexican Drug lords are using Sequoia National Park and others to grow pot INSIDE this country and using mexican farm workers as slaves to tend them.

458 DEZes  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:55:41pm

re: #456 HoosierHoops

I'm trying to sic my dog on you..But he is so lazy..

Hes a good boy.

459 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:55:47pm
460 NelsFree  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:56:15pm

re: #449 Gearhead

Great. I'm not broke enough, y'know. I still have a little CHANGE left to subsidize other people.


A good find! The other quote of interest:

"The president has called the move a "bold and necessary step" and said that the bill holds promise for creating new industries and millions of new jobs as the nation shifts to greater reliance on renewable energy sources and away from use of fossil fuels such as oil, gas and coal."
NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO! Government does not create jobs, the private sector does that, WITHOUT gov't interference.
Some folks just don't get it, like the President.

461 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:56:21pm

re: #455 EmmmieG

Which is great fun.

Absolutely!

All this talk of pot has given me the munchies. Later, lizards!

462 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:56:27pm

re: #453 doppelganglander

I agree. When Charles posts two important threads back to back, the earlier one is often overlooked. The longest threads are almost always way OT, unless we're mocking a presidential address in real time.

Cue "Thats Mister President to You" to say
"Do you mock me?"

463 Millicent Islam  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:56:42pm

OT: Sadly, Lori Drew's convictions have been overturned. (someone probably already posted this, I bet)


[Link: www.wired.com...]

The case had its roots in a tragedy that began unfolding in September 2006 when, prosecutors said, Drew conspired to create a fake MySpace account for “Josh Evans” with her then 13-year-old daughter, Sarah, and a then-18-year-old employee and family friend named Ashley Grills.

Prosecutors alleged that Drew and the two others used the profile to lure 13-year-old Megan Meier into an online relationship with “Josh” to find out what Megan was saying about Drew’s daughter online. But in October, one of the group, writing as Josh, turned against Megan, and told her that the world would be a better place without her. Shortly afterward, Megan hanged herself in her bedroom.

464 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:57:25pm

re: #463 iceweasel

OT: Sadly, Lori Drew's convictions have been overturned. (someone probably already posted this, I bet)

[Link: www.wired.com...]

Wait for the civil suit.

465 Millicent Islam  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:58:16pm

re: #464 Kosh's Shadow

Wait for the civil suit.

Have the parents filed one?

466 Sharmuta  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:58:57pm

re: #434 ShanghaiEd

Much truth in what you say, I think. I'd only add two quibbles...it's not a question of "getting the message across," so much as the fact that a generation of politicians have paid lip service (if that) to Goldwater and Reagan while voting in an entirely different way. Their message was in their votes, not their speeches, and people got fed up with it.

Also, I think that "fiscal responsibility" in our current dilemma is entirely different than fiscal responsibility in Goldwater's and Reagan's time. Sort of like discussing "water conservation" while a house is on fire. It's a great thing in principle, but the playing field has shifted. Just pretending that spending and taxes are "bad" in the same way they were in brighter times is extremely counterproductive, and I think most voters realize this.

And I think there is much truth in what you're saying here. As I've stated before, fiscal conservatism went out the GOP door when they kicked out Newt Gingrich. And I agree this is now past labeling issues. I think most Americans agree on the issue- government spending is out of control, Washington is out of control. Real proposals, with real solutions and reforms need to be presented to the public, or the public will continue to see both parties as offering more of the same.

467 ggt  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:59:39pm

re: #459 Iron Fist

Heller is a decision handed down last summer that finally recognized the fact that the Second Amendment protects an individual right. It has the potential to be as pivotal in the gun control fight as Roe v. Wade was in the abortion battle. The SCOTUS didn't directly apply this to the States, but left that issue vague. That may take another case, but interestingly enough the 9th Circuit court (the most Libneral of the appellate courts) found that the Second Amendment had to apply to the States.

The Courts have generally not touched gun control. You had a case in the 1870's (US v. Cruikshank) that found that the Second Amendment didn't really mean anything, but that decision was made to allow the Ku Klux Klan to disarm recently freed slaves. I would like to think that the current court would overturn it on a 9-0 vote, but I'm not sure that it would. Heller was an oppertunity to do this, but the pro-Second Amendment members of the court were only able to get 5 votes. Even that may have been difficult to obtain. We really know nothing about the deliberations and deal making that goes on behind closed doors at the SCOTUS.

Right now, the judicial decisions recognizing the Second Amendment are new and fragile. They haven't had time to grow into a standard of accepted law, although every good decision handed down helps to cement that. The question is when will Kennedy retire? Who will be president then, who will control the Senate, and who will be the chosen replacement. Our rights are far from secure right now.

Well written, Iron Fist!

Add to that the NRA, and other Pro-Gun Groups are actively filing suits all over the country to attempt to force municipalities to comply with Heller.

The Brady Campaign has started a new tangent. They concede that the Supreme Court determined that The 2nd Amendment addresses an Individual Right, but they are working to build the myth that "guns are inherently bad". Beware of double-speak and bad logic.

468 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 5:59:57pm

re: #464 Kosh's Shadow

Wait for the civil suit.

even less interesting than all the Mike Jackson drivel...x2 at least...WGAF?...KOREA IS SHOOTING MISSILES AT US!

469 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 6:01:29pm

re: #465 iceweasel

Have the parents filed one?

I don't know, but I'd expect they would, even if they waited for the criminal one. They might have filed, but waited until the criminal one was done.

470 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 6:02:52pm

re: #468 albusteve

even less interesting than all the Mike Jackson drivel...x2 at least...WGAF?...KOREA IS SHOOTING MISSILES AT US!

Unless they launched another one, the four launched earlier were short-range. I'm not sure they have a long-range one ready yet.

471 albusteve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 6:03:30pm

re: #470 Kosh's Shadow

Unless they launched another one, the four launched earlier were short-range. I'm not sure they have a long-range one ready yet.

okay...false alarm...bartender!

472 NelsFree  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 6:03:41pm

re: #452 DEZes

Stop touching me.
///


You two behave, or I'm stopping this car!
/h

473 96RoadKing  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 6:05:21pm

re: #467 ggt

Well written, Iron Fist!

Add to that the NRA, and other Pro-Gun Groups are actively filing suits all over the country to attempt to force municipalities to comply with Heller.

The Brady Campaign has started a new tangent. They concede that the Supreme Court determined that The 2nd Amendment addresses an Individual Right, but they are working to build the myth that "guns are inherently bad". Beware of double-speak and bad logic.

They may be conceding that the Amendment addresses an Individual Right, but they're taking two tracks: First, that just because you have the Right to own one, doesn't mean you have the Right of 'ease of access' (trigger locks required, or kept in a safe, or partially dismantled when not in use), nor do you necessarily have the Right to relatively low cost, non-serial numbered ammunition! Beware the end run!

474 NelsFree  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 6:05:59pm

re: #463 iceweasel

OT: Sadly, Lori Drew's convictions have been overturned. (someone probably already posted this, I bet)

Criminal case. Ex Post Facto law for Cyber-bullying could not apply. Civil case to follow, Lawhawk rubbing hands gleefully.
/Jus' Kiddin', LH

475 96RoadKing  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 6:06:17pm

Time for a new page! I'm outa here!

476 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 6:08:20pm
477 The Shadow Do  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 6:09:28pm

re: #410 Iron Fist

Actually, if there were some form of legalization it would probably be easier to keep it out of the hands of minors. Get really, really tough on anyon supplying drugs to minors. As things stand now, most drug dealers will sell to anyone with the money. I knew a guy in Tallahassee that wouldn't sell to anyone under 18, but he is definately the exception to the rule.

There are arguement to be made on both sides, and I really don't know what the answer is. All I know is that what we are doing now is failing miserably. Drug use is an epidemic, drug violence is an epidemic. Drugs being illegal only keeps the most casually interested person from getting them.

You're not arguing surrender to the drug dealers are you?

478 Valeikan_Omnistrife  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 6:09:56pm

thought it was appropriate.

479 eon  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 6:10:30pm

re: #411 iceweasel

I thought this had been the comeback to this claim for a long time, no?
"We don't need more gun laws, we just need to enforce the ones on the books"
?

Isn't that usually how the debate goes?

The vast majority of "gun laws" are already enforced; licensing provisions, etc., often Draconianly. For instance, the Sullivan Law has a provision for a law-abiding citizen to be issued a license to "own or possess" a firearm in NYC. In fact, unless you are a VIP and pay a "fee" under the table, there is no way you will get such a license, and NYPD's "unofficial"policy for the last century has been to "discourage" anyone else who asks. This is why the (in)famous Mayor David Dinkins would say with a straight face that "New Yorkers are safer without guns" while he was accompanied in public by bodyguards armed with Beretta M93R 9mm machine pistols in shoulder holsters. He was "under threat", being The Boss, you see; he reminded me of Kimball Kinnison's observation, "I am sick to the teeth of every two-bit grifter calling himself 'Number One' after he's managed to steal enough small change to hire a couple of gorillas to walk around behind him packing blasters." (E.E. "Doc" Smith, Second Stage Lensman.)

The fact is that criminals have been violating those 30,000 laws with gay abandon for over a century. And the "enforcement" of same has consumed a great deal of police man-hours, resources, etc., to ensure that said laws are obeyed by law-abiding citizens who aren't committing crimes to begin with. By this logic, the way to deal with speeders and drunk drivers is to periodically ticket drivers for driving legally and within the speed limit. While constantly haranguing them to not drive at all.

It wastes law-enforcement's time and makes the citizenry distrust law enforcement. Neither is a good thing.

Law-abiding gun-owners, dealers, etc., could be the BATFE's, etc., greatest allies in combatting illegal gun crimes (strawman purchasers, etc.)- that is, if the agencies in question hadn't spent the last forty-plus years treating those same law-abiding citizens as The Enemy just because they owned guns legally. The old saying "You catch more flies with sugar than you do with vinegar" seems not to apply here.

By comparison, if a criminal commits a crime with a gun, and a "gun specification" could add to their penalty, it is virtually guaranteed that that "specification" will be the absolute first thing that gets "plea-bargained" away by the prosecutor. (I'm speaking from personal experience here, trust me.) The objective is to "get the case cleared", not to ensure that the criminal is kept from harming the public for any length of time; even today, the "therapeutic" view of crime and criminals ("victims of society", "root causes", etc.) holds more sway in legal circles than you might think.

So, while "gun laws" are being enforced every day- they aren't being effectively enforced on actual lawbreakers, never have been, and probably never will be. To our 'legal establishment", it's too much trouble, and too big an "imposition" on their "legal discretion". Judges, prosecutors, and defense attorneys all agree- they don't want to deal with it.

It's easier to just get elected Mayor, Governor, Senator, etc.- and then decry the "bloodthirstiness" of Americans, who don't see the "evil" of their owning guns. More fun, too.

It's always fun to beat up people who can't hit back. Ask any bully.

cheers

eon

480 freetoken  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 6:10:40pm

re: #466 Sharmuta

Real proposals, with real solutions and reforms need to be presented to the public, or the public will continue to see both parties as offering more of the same.


Timely for you to say that... I see that over on HA they have finally run a Palin-critical article (this one about the Palins playing footsie with the secessionists.) As expected, many posters try to deflect the criticism into debates over Darwin, etc.

For all the headlines Gov. Palin likes to generate, I've not seen any that I would call your "Real proposals, with real solutions". Personality can bring votes to a candidate, but it cannot be a substitute for real subtance.

In these days I'd suggest that the "Real proposals, with real solutions" need to cover how the US can compete in a world demanding in needs (e.g., hungry for energy), unexpected changes in international organization, and how disparate groups in the US can rightly feel as if they truly belong to one nation.

481 The Shadow Do  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 6:11:24pm

re: #443 Syrah


Regulating cigarettes and tobacco has done damn little to keep them out of the hands of kids.


I just don't think that is true, at all. When I was a kid if I had 20 cents I could buy cigarettes from a machine, and I did.

482 eon  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 6:12:45pm

re: #440 Killgore Trout

For those who missed it this morning: I found a Baby Hummingbird by my pond this morning. He was a little bit larger than a gold ball and couldn't fly yet. After about an hour or so he finally figured it out and took off. Made me happy all day.

Aww. So cute!

Thanks for posting that! :-)

cheers

eon

483 mystry  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 6:13:22pm

#467 ggt Great post. Quite concise. The only thing that I can add is that SCOTUS rarely anymore will rule on anything of a broad stroke nature. Everything since Roe vs Wade is really on a narrow window. And many of those leave everybody scratching their heads.

484 brookly red  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 6:17:14pm

re: #481 The Shadow Do

I just don't think that is true, at all. When I was a kid if I had 20 cents I could buy cigarettes from a machine, and I did.

Well part of Bloomberg's logic for raising taxes so that cigarettes are $10+ a pack in NYC was to cut down on their availability to young people... so now teenagers sell drugs (among other things) to raise the money to buy cigarettes. /Good move Mikey.

485 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 6:40:04pm
486 Joshua Cohen  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 6:50:04pm

Support our troops! And never forget:

These are our sons, daughters, husbands, wives, fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters who choose to put their life in danger to protect us. To fight evil, to defend democracy and freedom. So we can sleep at night without fear!
To make sure that we will not get a phone call at work that the school-bus with our kids on board has exploded, that a bomb has gone of in a disco, that people get killed because they think and believe different.
They doing their Duty here at home or abroad.

Always remember why they fight!

God bless them!

487 Skinless Frank  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 7:53:47pm

We have yet to receive one of our soldiers alive from these savages, except the ones we rescued by force. I hope we get this guy back. If we treated them as they treat us, Guantanamo would be empty and the sharks off Cuba's east shore would be well fed. I wish we could put some of the captured Taliban on a gallows and tell them we would give them one for one, and make them choose. Hang the rest.

488 Aye Pod  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 8:10:31pm

re: #440 Killgore Trout

For those who missed it this morning: I found a Baby Hummingbird by my pond this morning. He was a little bit larger than a gold ball and couldn't fly yet. After about an hour or so he finally figured it out and took off. Made me happy all day.

You are lucky to have such interesting and attractive birds over there. Uk birds are generally a bit boring imo.

489 KipAllen  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 8:22:46pm

I keep waiting for Sen. Reid to announce the surge is a failure and the war lost.

490 steve  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 10:29:18pm

re: #486 Joshua Cohen

Support our troops! And never forget:

These are our sons, daughters, husbands, wives, fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters who choose to put their life in danger to protect us. To fight evil, to defend democracy and freedom. So we can sleep at night without fear!
To make sure that we will not get a phone call at work that the school-bus with our kids on board has exploded, that a bomb has gone of in a disco, that people get killed because they think and believe different.
They doing their Duty here at home or abroad.

Always remember why they fight!

God bless them!


Very well stated!

491 Syrah  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 10:32:50pm

re: #481 The Shadow Do

I just don't think that is true, at all. When I was a kid if I had 20 cents I could buy cigarettes from a machine, and I did.

Ok. Maybe it is a little more difficult now than it was. Still, the school yards suggest that cigarettes are still easy enough for minors to get a hold of.

492 Sergeant Major  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 10:45:12pm

I'm glad to see we are finally doing what should have been done long ago. Now with the new policy being implemented by our leadership...the pulling back from engagements when tali ban fighters take over villages and using diplomacy as one course of action and retreat as another.
By all means we should use every measure to insure we do not kill innocent civilians, we also need to be careful that we do NOT put out soldiers in more harm. From experience the local populace knows who the Tali ban fighters are and in some way shape or form have helped them. Not all of the local populace is against us but also remember they are NOT all for us either. This is not a popularity contest and war is a horrible thing (no one should ever have to experience). We will try and minimize giving people reasons to join the Tali ban but, with that type of radical thinking they will AlWAYS have a reason.
May God watch over our brave men and women as they fight for other's freedom.

493 axegrinder  Thu, Jul 2, 2009 11:17:27pm

re: #492 Sergeant Major


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 Frank says:

I'm not going to be Bill Clinton and say I never inhaled. I did inhale. I liked tobacco a lot better.