Arizona State Senator: ‘This Earth’s Been Here 6,000 Years’

Science • Views: 3,815

Arizona Republican State Senator Sylvia Allen argues in favor of uranium mining on state land, because our planet has managed to last 6,000 years without any environmental laws, and look, we’re just fine.

I can’t say enough how it’s time that we get beyond, and, and start focusing on the technology we have, and move forward into the future so that our grandchildren and, can have the same lifestyle we have, and, and, this earth’s been here 6,000 years and I know I’m goin’ on and on and I’ll shut up … It’s been here 6,000 years, long before anybody had environmental laws, and somehow it hasn’t been done away with.

Youtube Video

Phil Plait savors the crunchy irony:

The irony, of course — and there’s always irony when creationism is involved — is that she’s talking about uranium mining, and it’s through the radioactive decay of uranium that we know the Earth is billions of years old. And she also praises technological achievements!

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718 comments
1 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 11:59:30am

Creationist lawmakers make baby Jesus cry.

2 sattv4u2  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 11:59:54am

", this earth,"

ummm, maybe she "knows" that OTHER earths are older!

///
(then again , maybe not !)

3 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 11:59:58am

Is the GOP trying to become extinct?

4 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:00:09pm

Awesome. Maybe she meant to say 'at least 6,000 years old'...

5 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:00:21pm

What a frakking maroon. Clearly, she's spent too much time in the Arizona sun.

She should have shut up before talking about the YEC nonsense, because she removed all doubt that she's a nutter.

6 Digital Display  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:00:35pm

Thank you so much for quoting Phil...
He has been in the forefront of debunking this nonsense...
Thanks Charles....

7 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:01:49pm

As a practicing fundamentalist Christian, all I can say is that the good Senator should remember that opinions are like assholes; everyone's got one and not everyone wants to know about yours. Please, do shut the hell up.

8 Danny  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:02:34pm

Where's SpaceJesus when you need him....?

9 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:03:07pm

I can't imagine how you can look at the Grand Canyon and think that way.

10 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:03:27pm

re: #8 Danny

Where's SpaceJesus when you need him....?

Airlock #2?

11 JustABill  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:03:52pm

and the rapture is right around the corner, so what do we care about global warming. As for those who remain, a warming earth will just get them ready for their afterlife./

12 witwwats  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:03:52pm

I guess we're all lucky that God is so small that Science can always be right and Religion always wrong.

Sorry, I don't agree.

13 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:04:00pm

Allen is from Snowflake, which is up on the Mongoloid Rim.

/oops! ... PIMF ... the Mogollon Rim

14 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:04:16pm

re: #8 Danny

Where's SpaceJesus when you need him....?

Hush. If you say his name 3 times, he appears.

15 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:04:33pm

re: #9 doppelganglander

I can't imagine how you can look at the Grand Canyon and think that way.

God snapped his fingers and the angels chiseled it away in a fortnight.//

16 sattv4u2  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:04:39pm

re: #12 witwwats

I guess we're all lucky that God is so small that Science can always be right and Religion always wrong.

Sorry, I don't agree.

with ?

17 Danny  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:05:09pm

re: #12 witwwats

I guess we're all lucky that God is so small that Science can always be right and Religion always wrong.

Sorry, I don't agree.

That's cool...I don't agree with you, either.

18 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:05:10pm

6,000 years - a splinter in time.

YEC- a splinter in my ass.

19 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:05:31pm

re: #15 calcajun

God snapped his fingers and the angels chiseled it away in a fortnight.//

Can't have been a fortnight since creation only took 6 days.

20 VioletTiger  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:05:34pm

Can someone please tell the senator that oil and gas deposits took about 300 millions years to form?

21 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:05:37pm

re: #12 witwwats

I guess we're all lucky that God is so small that Science can always be right and Religion always wrong.

Sorry, I don't agree.

You've got it backwards. Creationism assumes a very small God who cannot work through the majestic scientific theories we are only beginning to understand.

22 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:05:43pm

Fred spent his entire career mining Uranium for Mr. Bedrock.

23 debutaunt  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:06:00pm

re: #16 sattv4u2

with ?

WitWhat?

24 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:06:25pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Fred spent his entire career mining Uranium for Mr. Bedrock.

It was Mr. Slate in the town of Bedrock, but very funny nonetheless.

25 jaunte  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:06:43pm

re: #12 witwwats

What is it, exactly, that you're disagreeing with?

26 Digital Display  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:06:46pm

re: #12 witwwats

I guess we're all lucky that God is so small that Science can always be right and Religion always wrong.

Sorry, I don't agree.

Here we go again..nobody said anything about Religion being wrong...
Show me where God says the world is 6000 years old....

27 VioletTiger  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:06:53pm

re: #12 witwwats

I guess we're all lucky that God is so small that Science can always be right and Religion always wrong.

Sorry, I don't agree.

Can somebody please tell me witwwats that oil and gas deposits took 300 million years to form?

28 Bloodnok  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:07:05pm

re: #12 witwwats

I guess we're all lucky that God is so small that Science can always be right and Religion always wrong.

Sorry, I don't agree.

Because that's what we're talking about here, right?

No, WRONG. This person is wrong and her opinion is wrong. Her position is built on weak faith and shoddy reasoning. It has nothing to do with religion as a whole.

29 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:07:26pm
30 Truth Stick  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:07:30pm

Next thing you know she'll be telling us that the moon is made out of cheese.

31 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:07:50pm

re: #19 FurryOldGuyJeans

Can't have been a fortnight since creation only took 6 days.

Bah--unbeliever! Heretic! How dare you bring logic into this!/

32 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:07:57pm

re: #24 doppelganglander

Damn, I blew a good joke because of my lame knowledge of the Flintstones. I stink.

33 VioletTiger  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:08:01pm

re: #29 buzzsawmonkey

Well...it has been here 6000 years.

Plus several hundred billion, of course.


Just a rounding error.

34 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:08:20pm

Five bucks on ... uh (*looking upthread*) ... better make that #150

35 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:08:33pm

re: #30 Truth Stick

Next thing you know she'll be telling us that the moon is made out of cheese.

Why do you think the astronauts took wine and crackers with them?

36 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:08:34pm

re: #30 Truth Stick

Next thing you know she'll be telling us that the moon is made out of cheese.

Heh. It's not?

37 Danny  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:08:39pm

re: #29 buzzsawmonkey

Give or take a day or two...

38 Kenneth  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:08:42pm

Arizona Republican State Senator Sylvia Allen really ought to visit that natural wonder of her great state, the Grand Canyon, carved out by the Colorado River over the past 6 million years. Nearly two billion years of the Earth's geological history have been exposed as the Colorado River and its tributaries cut their channels through layer after layer of rock while the Colorado Plateau was uplifted.

39 Digital Display  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:09:01pm

re: #34 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Five bucks on ... uh (*looking upthread*) ... better make that #150

over/under at 150.. place your bets people...

40 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:09:02pm

re: #32 Killgore Trout

Damn, I blew a good joke because of my lame knowledge of the Flintstones. I stink.

I hope it just means you were doing more productive things as a child. Personally, I spent a lot of time acquiring an encyclopedic knowledge of Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck.

41 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:09:28pm

re: #38 Kenneth

Arizona Republican State Senator Sylvia Allen really ought to visit that natural wonder of her great state, the Grand Canyon, carved out by the Colorado River over the past 6 million years. Nearly two billion years of the Earth's geological history have been exposed as the Colorado River and its tributaries cut their channels through layer after layer of rock while the Colorado Plateau was uplifted.

I'm pretty sure she would tell you that the Grand Canyon was carved out by the Great Flood.

42 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:09:35pm

re: #32 Killgore Trout

Damn, I blew a good joke because of my lame knowledge of the Flintstones. I stink.

:D ... (you and me both -- should we care?)

43 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:09:42pm

palin supporter spotted

44 Kenneth  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:09:54pm

re: #12 witwwats

Please stop projecting. It's unseemly.

45 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:10:03pm

Indians in Arizona beleive the wind speaks.

46 debutaunt  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:10:12pm

re: #33 VioletTiger

Just a rounding error.

This morning's SF news stated that almost a million and a half people, 1.2 million to be exact, ...

47 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:10:17pm

The first time I found out one of my friends is a Young Earther, he had just returned from the Grand Canyon. Some people can't take a hint.

48 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:10:34pm

re: #40 doppelganglander

I spent a lot of time acquiring an encyclopedic knowledge of Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck.


"The Brothers Karamazov" of our time.

49 Danny  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:10:38pm

re: #43 spacejesus

Not quite the insult I was expecting...

50 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:10:41pm
51 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:10:53pm

re: #8 Danny

Where's SpaceJesus when you need him....?

He has accomplished his goal of making all 10 of the most poorly rated comments on the board. His work here is done.

52 BlueCanuck  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:11:15pm

re: #43 spacejesus

PDS is strong with this one.

53 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:11:21pm
54 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:11:28pm

re: #50 buzzsawmonkey

Le Petomane was able to make his wind play the Marseillaise.


Don't you mean Cheif Big Le Petomane?

55 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:11:28pm

re: #21 doppelganglander

You've got it backwards. Creationism assumes a very small God who cannot work through the majestic scientific theories we are only beginning to understand.

EXCELLENT!

56 Yashmak  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:11:31pm

Somewhere, just outside earth's orbit, floats a rather large empty bottle and a funnel, from which God poured the earth's oil deposits into the soil 6000 years ago.

57 jaunte  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:11:32pm

The US has gone from producing 24% of the world's uranium in 1980, to producing just 2% in 2003. Given that we probably need more nuclear power generation, it is a good idea to open up some mining again.

58 Danny  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:11:39pm

re: #51 Creeping Eruption

Now you just need to convince him that's true...

59 Digital Display  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:11:42pm

re: #51 Creeping Eruption

He has accomplished his goal of making all 10 of the most poorly rated comments on the board. His work here is done.

He did a triple Hat trick with 1 extra? Boy was he on a roll

60 HelloDare  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:11:46pm

Her hair style dates from the early pleistocene. Irony upon irony.

61 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:12:02pm

re: #45 Ben Hur

Indians in Arizona beleive the wind speaks.

I can see (and smell) that. Give me enough beans and broccoli and my "wind" get downright chatty.

62 blangwort  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:12:17pm

I'd like to thank the tooth fairy for my healthy teeth. Those dentists had nothing to do with them. I don't even know why I pay them.

I'd also like to inform everyone that the Earth is as flat as this table. I hear that it's possible to fall off the edge, so I'm not going to be traveling much.

Additionally, I think we need to improve our science education. We need to teach the kids the biblical age of the earth so that we can make better, more moral pharmaceuticals.

/ How much contradictory crap like this can a human being stand? How can the good Senator know what to vote for when she doesn't even know what is real?

63 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:12:24pm

re: #32 Killgore Trout

Damn, I blew a good joke because of my lame knowledge of the Flintstones. I stink.


Yes, that's what you sock-puppet says, isn't it?

64 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:12:50pm

re: #48 calcajun

"The Brothers Karamazov" of our time.

Hmm, Daffy as Smerdyakov? Tweety as Alyosha?

65 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:12:51pm

re: #41 Charles

Which one? The one that was recalled in the Epic of Gilgamesh? Noah's Ark (and sorry folks, it still hasn't been found on Mt. Ararat). Or would that be the Hopi of the other Flood stories?

66 HelloDare  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:13:07pm

re: #45 Ben Hur

Indians in Arizona beleive the wind speaks.

And it says that Ward Churchill's a blowhard.

67 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:13:17pm

re: #8 Danny

DAMMIT, Danny!
See what you caused?
HE'S HERE!

/ ... :D ... just teasing

68 Kenneth  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:13:22pm

re: #41 Charles

I always want to ask, & I know I would never get a sensible answer, but if the earth is only 6,000 years old, why does it look like it's 4.5 billion years old? If God created it 6,000 years ago, shouldn't it look 6,000 years old?

69 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:13:32pm

re: #48 calcajun

Wouldn't that be the Three Stooges?

70 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:13:34pm

I guess this finally puts an end to the "but it's a dry heat" BS.

71 altermite  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:13:41pm

Not irony. Uraniumy.

This is your government, people. How can you say its not an issue?

72 JustABill  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:14:00pm

re: #28 Bloodnok

Because that's what we're talking about here, right?

No, WRONG. This person is wrong and her opinion is wrong. Her position is built on weak faith and shoddy reasoning. It has nothing to do with religion as a whole.

The main difference that I can see is that, in general, science gets more right over time. Religion, deals with "Eternal Truths" which don't change so much.

73 Danny  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:14:00pm

re: #67 pre-Boomer Marine brat

DAMMIT, Danny!
See what you caused?
HE'S HERE!

/ ... :D ... just teasing

I only said his name once, I swear! Course, somebody had to go and quute me...

74 Yashmak  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:14:04pm

re: #21 doppelganglander

You've got it backwards. Creationism assumes a very small God who cannot work through the majestic scientific theories we are only beginning to understand.

Moreover, it implies that all these clues he left, fossils, decay of elements, expansion of the universe, are some manner of divine deception.

75 jaunte  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:14:06pm

re: #68 Kenneth

He's into antiquing?

76 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:14:09pm

re: #68 Kenneth

I always want to ask, & I know I would never get a sensible answer, but if the earth is only 6,000 years old, why does it look like it's 4.5 billion years old? If God created it 6,000 years ago, shouldn't it look 6,000 years old?

Simple, Satan made it look that way to fool believers. Satan is the ruler of the world after all.

77 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:14:10pm

re: #68 Kenneth

"He's testing your faith", which is the old standby when confronted with such things...

78 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:14:19pm

re: #52 BlueCanuck

PDS is strong with this one.

Why, in this case, does that sound like a hormone disorder?

79 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:14:30pm

re: #64 doppelganglander

Hmm, Daffy as Smerdyakov? Tweety as Alyosha?

Good casting ideas, indeed.

80 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:14:30pm

An Arizona Republican State Senator airs her backwards religious belief.
Well, I for one will NEVER vote for a Republican ever again!
And gee, I feel so smugly superior too.

/I'm joining the Unicorn Party...........

81 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:14:42pm

Image: Dinosaur-Palin.jpg

82 turn  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:14:46pm

re: #68 Kenneth

I always want to ask, & I know I would never get a sensible answer, but if the earth is only 6,000 years old, why does it look like it's 4.5 billion years old? If God created it 6,000 years ago, shouldn't it look 6,000 years old?

That's simple, he created it to look older.
/

83 soxfan4life  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:14:49pm

The Democrats are spending us into extinction, and we are supposed to be looking to people who want us to believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old to help us. It truly sucks to be us right now.

84 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:14:56pm

re: #68 Kenneth

I always want to ask, & I know I would never get a sensible answer, but if the earth is only 6,000 years old, why does it look like it's 4.5 billion years old? If God created it 6,000 years ago, shouldn't it look 6,000 years old?

Botox.

85 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:15:02pm
86 altermite  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:15:18pm

re: #68 Kenneth

I always want to ask, & I know I would never get a sensible answer, but if the earth is only 6,000 years old, why does it look like it's 4.5 billion years old? If God created it 6,000 years ago, shouldn't it look 6,000 years old?

To create jobs and stimulate the economy.

87 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:15:22pm

re: #77 lawhawk

"He's testing your faith", which is the old standby when confronted with such things...

Yup. Got that one in 4th grade Chumash class. Never a skeptic has a school created so quickly.

88 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:15:25pm

re: #68 Kenneth

I always want to ask, & I know I would never get a sensible answer, but if the earth is only 6,000 years old, why does it look like it's 4.5 billion years old? If God created it 6,000 years ago, shouldn't it look 6,000 years old?

Maybe the earth is being coy about it's age.
/

89 jaunte  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:15:33pm

Anyone agree we should be mining uranium?

90 Syrah  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:15:39pm

re: #30 Truth Stick

Next thing you know she'll be telling us that the moon is made out of cheese.

Swiss cheese to be precise.

91 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:15:47pm

Aborigines believe that if you take their picture you steal their souls.

Of course, it could just be the lense cap.

92 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:15:54pm

re: #41 Charles

I'm pretty sure she would tell you that the Grand Canyon was carved out by the Great Flood.

WRONG! It was caused when Satan was cast to earth out of Heaven.

93 turn  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:16:10pm

re: #89 jaunte

Anyone agree we should be mining uranium?

Yes, and making pebble bed nuclear reactors with them.

94 BlueCanuck  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:16:10pm

re: #78 pre-Boomer Marine brat

See some of it's comments yesterday? Who says it isn't?

95 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:16:16pm

re: #89 jaunte

Anyone agree we should be mining uranium?

Who says it's your anium? Maybe it's mine too........so there.
/

96 Danny  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:16:16pm

re: #68 Kenneth

I always want to ask, & I know I would never get a sensible answer, but if the earth is only 6,000 years old, why does it look like it's 4.5 billion years old? If God created it 6,000 years ago, shouldn't it look 6,000 years old?

I can't answer that, but I do believe God created certain fish in a barrel...

97 KT Smells like Roses and Ranbows  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:16:17pm

re: #63 reine.de.tout
Sock puppets lie!

98 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:16:27pm

re: #73 Danny

I only said his name once, I swear! Course, somebody had to go and quute me...

Right!

DOPPELGANGLANDER!
IT'S YOUR FAULT!

99 debutaunt  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:16:39pm

re: #89 jaunte

Anyone agree we should be mining uranium?

If there is any in my back yard, it's all yours.

100 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:16:39pm
101 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:16:57pm

re: #89 jaunte

Anyone agree we should be mining uranium?

who in their right mind would disagree

102 debutaunt  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:17:09pm

re: #92 IslandLibertarian

WRONG! It was caused when Satan was cast to earth out of Heaven.

Linky?

103 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:17:17pm

re: #94 BlueCanuck

See some of it's comments yesterday? Who says it isn't?

heh, yeah, I got a cramp in my down-ding finger on those.

104 Digital Display  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:17:27pm

re: #68 Kenneth

I always want to ask, & I know I would never get a sensible answer, but if the earth is only 6,000 years old, why does it look like it's 4.5 billion years old? If God created it 6,000 years ago, shouldn't it look 6,000 years old?

oh you of little faith....It's a miracle....
I had someone argue once that if there was a great flood all the carbon dating would be wrong...So the dates by that logic would show the ocean floor is 6k years old...Cause it's been under water all this time...
Is the ocean floor 6000 years old? Didn't think so....

105 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:17:27pm

re: #88 LGoPs

Maybe the earth is being coy about it's age.
/

Don't you know never ask a woman her age... her real age? /sheesh

106 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:17:38pm

re: #85 buzzsawmonkey

Le Petomane was an actual person; a performer in late-19th-century Paris who would play tunes by farting. He was a major sensation; "Petomania" was coined to describe the devotion of his fans.

Le Petomane

After this past weekend, I'd destroy that guy. And the 5 rows sitting behind him!

107 altermite  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:17:40pm

re: #89 jaunte

Anyone agree we should be mining uranium?

Oh, I agree with mining it. But there are some very good reasons that we have environmental laws concerning mining it. And this ninny is saying to do without them.

Responsible laws governing uranium mining will do more for nuclear power than her form of advocacy.

108 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:18:12pm

re: #81 SpaceJesus

Heh.

109 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:18:13pm

The Grand Canyon is Gaia's vejayjay.

110 HelloDare  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:18:19pm

re: #85 buzzsawmonkey

Le Petomane was an actual person; a performer in late-19th-century Paris who would play tunes by farting. He was a major sensation; "Petomania" was coined to describe the devotion of his fans.

Le Petomane

There's a newer version. Mr. Methane.

111 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:18:25pm

Adam and Eve created a primitive atomic pile in the Garden of Eden, using dinosaurs to do the heavy lifting. It's true.

112 turn  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:18:35pm

re: #103 pre-Boomer Marine brat

heh, yeah, I got a cramp in my down-ding finger on those.

ha, really did nab all 10 top rated downdings.

113 Gang of One  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:19:04pm

I honestly thought that this kind of ignorance was about extinct since around the 1920s and the Scopes Monkey Trial thing. Guess I'm wrong. These people are going to all but guarantee that Democrat Socialist Marxists will be in power for the foreseeable future.

114 Danny  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:19:11pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

I confess, it made me chuckle, too.

115 HelloDare  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:19:19pm

re: #111 Occasional Reader

Adam and Eve created a primitive atomic pile in the Garden of Eden, using dinosaurs to do the heavy lifting. It's true.

Link?

116 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:19:21pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

That was a fast clothes-change.
Do you have a telephone booth right there by the computer?

117 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:19:23pm

re: #68 Kenneth

I always want to ask, & I know I would never get a sensible answer, but if the earth is only 6,000 years old, why does it look like it's 4.5 billion years old? If God created it 6,000 years ago, shouldn't it look 6,000 years old?

Some people say G-d created the world so it is already billions of years old.
Others say the time in Genesis is "G-d's years", which work out to more like 15 billion of our years (for the universe). See Kabbalah and the Age of the Universe by Aryeh Kaplan.
Note - that is actually a very thin book.

118 JustABill  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:19:35pm

re: #88 LGoPs

Maybe the earth is being coy about it's age.
/

Many women lie about their ages, why should mother earth be different?

119 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:19:50pm

re: #89 jaunte

Anyone agree we should be mining uranium?

Yes. And it's too bad that her perfectly sound point on that matter has to be blanketed in schtoopidity, which undercuts her whole argument.

120 Yashmak  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:19:56pm

re: #89 jaunte

Anyone agree we should be mining uranium?

Yep. And building new power generating reactors too.

121 vxbush  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:20:00pm

OT:

Psst, Reine: it's your turn.

122 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:20:07pm

re: #102 debutaunt

Linky?

Isaiah 14:12

123 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:20:29pm

re: #115 HelloDare

Link?

It's in the Bible. You just have to just sort of squint a little, and hold the book sideways.

124 Kenneth  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:20:36pm

re: #106 Ben Hur

After this past weekend, I'd destroy that guy. And the 5 rows sitting behind him!

And some fool said MJ was the greatest entertainer ever!

125 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:20:37pm

Six thousand...Four and a half billion - what's the big difference?
So you're gonna make her a liar over a few years?

126 Gang of One  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:20:39pm

re: #43 spacejesus

palin supporter spotted

Oh goody. Look who's here. We're all calling this dope out. Try and stay on topic this time, m'kay?

127 debutaunt  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:20:48pm

re: #122 IslandLibertarian

Isaiah 14:12

No actual video?

128 independence  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:21:00pm

6000 years is coincidental to what Creationists preach, but from what Charles posted, I do not see that she is expressly saying 6000 years as in earth, people, etc has been around for 6000 years. Can it be argued that 6000 years is approximately how long we have been recording human activity and history?

I'm at work so I cannot watch the video yet, and she may very well be spewing creationist blather...

129 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:21:07pm
130 VioletTiger  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:21:18pm

re: #65 lawhawk

Which one? The one that was recalled in the Epic of Gilgamesh? Noah's Ark (and sorry folks, it still hasn't been found on Mt. Ararat). Or would that be the Hopi of the other Flood stories?


The Scab Lands show evidence of a great flood that occured when a glacial lake/ ice dam gave way and massive amounts of water carved up the land. Kind of like when you throw a bucket of water on sand, but on a massive scale. Wonder if similar events were responsible for tales of great floods.
ScabLands

131 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:21:27pm

re: #109 Ben Hur

The Grand Canyon is Gaia's vejayjay.


a donkey and i had a great time with it then once

132 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:21:41pm

All junior varsity crazy.

If you aspire to varsity crazy then you should argue that History (the study of the written word) supports the idea that humans are only 7000 years old.

And we don't accept symbols as writing. That is clearly the work of the devil...

133 Digital Display  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:22:01pm

re: #74 Yashmak

Moreover, it implies that all these clues he left, fossils, decay of elements, expansion of the universe, are some manner of divine deception.

The speed of light kind of blows creationism out the water... Cause you know it started out at one trillion mph and has slowed down the last few thousand
years to 186,000mph....And it keeps slowing down.....In a few years it will probably be running in the Tour de France and loosing badly to Lance....
Stupid light

134 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:22:06pm

re: #80 IslandLibertarian

An Arizona Republican State Senator airs her backwards religious belief.

Unfortunately, she aired her backwards religious belief in the course of making a political argument about uranium mining....and given that she believes the earth is 6000 years old, no one is going to take anything she ever says about science (including the environment) seriously.

135 soxfan4life  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:22:07pm

re: #89 jaunte

Anyone agree we should be mining uranium?

Shouldn't we be more concerned with building reactor plants before we start mining the product. If we pull it out of the ground, the asshats in charge now will lose track of it, or give it to the Chinese to secure more debt.

136 VioletTiger  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:22:41pm

re: #84 doppelganglander

Botoxrocks.

137 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:22:43pm

re: #118 JustABill

Many women lie about their ages, why should mother earth be different?

I remember being pretty baffled as a small child... "but daddy, didn't mommy have her thirtieth birthday LAST year?".

138 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:22:50pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

Heh.

this might become the replacement for jesus crying in outter space

139 turn  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:22:53pm

re: #121 vxbush

OT:

Psst, Reine: it's your turn.

Hey missy, no one owns me!
/

140 jaunte  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:23:14pm

re: #135 soxfan4life

or give it to the Chinese to secure more debt.

You make a good point.

141 avanti  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:23:17pm

re: #104 HoosierHoops

oh you of little faith....It's a miracle....
I had someone argue once that if there was a great flood all the carbon dating would be wrong...So the dates by that logic would show the ocean floor is 6k years old...Cause it's been under water all this time...
Is the ocean floor 6000 years old? Didn't think so....


I don't get how the faithful can ignore the Bibles earth centered solar system, or the Tower Of Babylon origin of the worlds languages, but hang onto 6000 year old earth.

142 Flyovercountry  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:23:23pm

This woman is a special kind of idiotic. I am embarassed to be on the same side of issues with these folks, even knowing it is for different reasons. For those of you who think the earth was created in 7 days, I wish to present to you a reasonable explanation as to why you may want to rethink your position, from Lewis Black

Youtube Video
143 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:23:31pm

re: #68 Kenneth

I always want to ask, & I know I would never get a sensible answer, but if the earth is only 6,000 years old, why does it look like it's 4.5 billion years old? If God created it 6,000 years ago, shouldn't it look 6,000 years old?

God is into faux antiques.

144 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:23:46pm

re: #98 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Right!

DOPPELGANGLANDER!
IT'S YOUR FAULT!

I thought of that after I quoted Danny instead of just using reply. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

145 Yashmak  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:24:03pm

re: #134 iceweasel

Unfortunately, she aired her backwards religious belief in the course of making a political argument about uranium mining....and given that she believes the earth is 6000 years old, no one is going to take anything she ever says about science (including the environment) seriously.

I'm sure SOMEONE will take things she says seriously. There are plenty of others who believe that sort of nonsense too. . . .sadly.

146 Danny  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:24:28pm

re: #144 doppelganglander

LOL. You're forgiven.

147 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:24:38pm

re: #138 SpaceJesus

this might become the replacement for jesus crying in outter space


Here. Have fun.

[Link: www.jesusoftheweek.com...]

The possibilities are endless.

148 HelloDare  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:24:45pm

re: #143 calcajun

God is into faux antiques.

Yes, obviously. It's a way of testing our faith. You'd think by now people would have figured this out.

149 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:24:58pm

re: #138 SpaceJesus

this might become the replacement for jesus crying in outter space

That was awesome. I love Pharyngula.

150 sattv4u2  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:25:12pm

re: #128 independence

6000 years is coincidental to what Creationists preach, but from what Charles posted, I do not see that she is expressly saying 6000 years as in earth, people, etc has been around for 6000 years. Can it be argued that 6000 years is approximately how long we have been recording human activity and history?

I'm at work so I cannot watch the video yet, and she may very well be spewing creationist blather...

, this earth’s been here 6,000 years and I know I’m goin’ on and on and I’ll shut up ... It’s been here 6,000 years

Direct quote. She says it TWICE in the same sentence

151 researchok  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:25:13pm

re: #117 Kosh's Shadow

Some people say G-d created the world so it is already billions of years old.
Others say the time in Genesis is "G-d's years", which work out to more like 15 billion of our years (for the universe). See Kabbalah and the Age of the Universe by Aryeh Kaplan.
Note - that is actually a very thin book.

Good point.

Have you ever noticed that the people who are religiously indoctrinated (as opposed to truly educated are the ones least likely to be educated in most other areas as well?

Understanding science only serves to highlight the magnificence of Creation and the Creation Plan.

152 hous bin pharteen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:25:37pm

Much more important to talk about this then the real problems. After all, now you have something to talk about when you are in the unemployment line.

[Link: hotair.com...]

153 debutaunt  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:25:59pm

re: #150 sattv4u2

, this earth’s been here 6,000 years and I know I’m goin’ on and on and I’ll shut up ... It’s been here 6,000 years

Direct quote. She says it TWICE in the same sentence

I'm coming up with a total of 12,000 years.

154 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:26:04pm

re: #65 lawhawk

Which one? The one that was recalled in the Epic of Gilgamesh?

That wasn't a flood, it was a STORM, dummy.

The weather started getting rough
The tiny ship was tossed...

Like, hellooo? And here I thought you were a classically-educated man. Sheesh.

155 HelloDare  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:26:06pm

re: #147 Ben Hur

Here. Have fun.

[Link: www.jesusoftheweek.com...]

The possibilities are endless.

What a great media buy for Sprint and Chase.

156 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:26:18pm

re: #144 doppelganglander

I thought of that after I quoted Danny instead of just using reply. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

*sob*
And now we're DOOMED!

157 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:26:38pm

re: #141 avanti

I don't get how the faithful can ignore the Bibles earth centered solar system, or the Tower Of Babylon origin of the worlds languages, but hang onto 6000 year old earth.

Tower of Babel, avanti.

Babylon is later.

158 sattv4u2  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:26:40pm

re: #153 debutaunt

I'm coming up with a total of 12,000 years.

I didn't know there was going to be math today!

159 yochanan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:27:02pm

why should dumb politicians surprise us not many of them know a hill of beans about economics either

160 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:27:28pm

re: #127 debutaunt

No actual video?



only one still shot...........could be photo-shopped..........

161 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:27:49pm

re: #141 avanti

I don't get how the faithful can ignore the Bibles earth centered solar system, or the Tower Of Babylon Babel origin of the worlds languages, but hang onto 6000 year old earth.

FIFY

(I think it's amazing how the Bible predicted Babelfish.)

162 Yashmak  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:28:01pm

re: #152 hous bin pharteen

Much more important to talk about this then the real problems. After all, now you have something to talk about when you are in the unemployment line.

And our elected leaders spouting patently ignorant idiocy in the press isn't one of those 'more important' things you're sarcastically referring to, eh?

163 Danny  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:28:16pm

re: #138 SpaceJesus

this might become the replacement for jesus crying in outter space

You'll have to re-register a new name... How 'bout "Sauropod Sara"?

No?

164 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:28:21pm

re: #157 Dianna

Tower of Babel, avanti.

Babylon is later.

Why can't y' just let 'm Babylon?

/

165 Kenneth  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:28:44pm

re: #117 Kosh's Shadow

Some people say G-d created the world so it is already billions of years old.
Others say the time in Genesis is "G-d's years", which work out to more like 15 billion of our years (for the universe). See Kabbalah and the Age of the Universe by Aryeh Kaplan.
Note - that is actually a very thin book.

But the problem is, only a few parts of the earth look 4.5 billion years old. There are features which were created over time that are newer: mountain ranges, rift valleys, volcanoes, canyons etc. The geological record is a time-line of creation in progress. The earth has evolved over the past 4.5 billion years. It wasn't created as is at any point in time.

166 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:28:46pm

re: #141 avanti

I don't get how the faithful can ignore the Bibles earth centered solar system, or the Tower Of Babylon origin of the worlds languages, but hang onto 6000 year old earth.

Exactly, it's like wanting to take Leviticus serious when it comes to the prohibition on homosexuality, but ignoring the prohibitions on shellfish and synthetic fibers.

167 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:29:03pm

re: #164 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Why can't y' just let 'm Babylon?

/

Kosh who?

168 HelloDare  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:29:07pm

Hey, what do you get the earth for it's 4,000th birthday? I think it's next Tuesday.

169 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:29:08pm

re: #164 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Why can't y' just let 'm Babylon?

/

Bablyon!
I'm goin' round the world
I'm gonna find my girl
On my way...

170 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:29:21pm

re: #166 iceweasel

Exactly, it's like wanting to take Leviticus seriousLY ONLY when it comes to the prohibition on homosexuality, but ignoring the prohibitions on shellfish and synthetic fibers.

PIMF

171 Danny  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:29:50pm

re: #163 Danny

Yeah I know...I shouldn't encourage him, should I?

172 CIA Reject  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:30:02pm

I hate to blow the lid off this whole debate, but the complete explanation for all of creation can be found right here.

Sorry to bust your respective bubbles :-)

BBL

173 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:30:07pm

re: #157 Dianna

Tower of Babel, avanti.

Babylon is later.

I'd rather be a Babylonian then a Babel-er.

174 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:30:09pm
175 Yashmak  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:30:24pm

re: #159 yochanan

why should dumb politicians surprise us not many of them know a hill of beans about economics either

Isn't THAT the truth. Regardless of any other factor, THAT is the reason I was dead set against the bank bailout, the stimulus, etc. etc. Our elected officials are predominantly lawyers. I can't imagine they know much more about the economic theory than your average LGF reader. . .and yet they're being trusted with the largest spending binge in our nation's history, and pretending they know that it will actually help in some way.

Scares me silly.

176 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:30:30pm

re: #128 independence

6000 years is coincidental to what Creationists preach, but from what Charles posted, I do not see that she is expressly saying 6000 years as in earth, people, etc has been around for 6000 years. Can it be argued that 6000 years is approximately how long we have been recording human activity and history?

I'm at work so I cannot watch the video yet, and she may very well be spewing creationist blather...


You've waited a while to express yourself. Welcome to the discussion!

177 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:30:34pm

re: #169 Occasional Reader

Bablyon!
I'm goin' round the world
I'm gonna find my girl
On my way...

Heh, that went over like a Led Zepplin.

178 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:30:54pm
179 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:31:00pm

I wonder if I can make my negative karma eclipse the age (sarah palin and the GOP's version) of the earth by the end of work today. 4.7k to go i think... it's doable.

180 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:31:07pm

re: #165 Kenneth

But the problem is, only a few parts of the earth look 4.5 billion years old. There are features which were created over time that are newer: mountain ranges, rift valleys, volcanoes, canyons etc. The geological record is a time-line of creation in progress. The earth has evolved over the past 4.5 billion years. It wasn't created as is at any point in time.

But that isn't a problem for those who believe the world was created 5769 years ago, because G-d has made changes then - some of them are clearly spelled out in the Torah; others are by tradition.

181 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:31:16pm

re: #166 iceweasel

Exactly, it's like wanting to take Leviticus serious when it comes to the prohibition on homosexuality, but ignoring the prohibitions on shellfish and synthetic fibers.

I believe it's a prohibition on mixed fibers (wool plus cotton). I very much doubt that polyester is mentioned in the Old Testament...

182 FightingBack  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:31:29pm

It works for very large values of 6000.

183 RightOnTheLeftCoast  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:31:43pm

re: #85 buzzsawmonkey

Le Petomane was an actual person; a performer in late-19th-century Paris who would play tunes by farting. He was a major sensation; "Petomania" was coined to describe the devotion of his fans.

Le Petomane

Back in the late 70's, I read a book about Le Petomaine.
I'm always reminded of this comedy recording about a "crepitation contest"
The announcer sounds like one of those vintage BBC types who is reporting the proceedings so matter-of-factly... until right at the end. ;)

184 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:31:49pm

re: #141 avanti

I don't get how the faithful can ignore the Bibles earth centered solar system, or the Tower Of Babylon origin of the worlds languages, but hang onto 6000 year old earth.

YOU don't understand how people blindly hang onto ideas through faith?

/

185 Yashmak  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:31:50pm

re: #179 SpaceJesus

I wonder if I can make my negative karma eclipse the age (sarah palin and the GOP's version) of the earth by the end of work today. 4.7k to go i think... it's doable.

I did my part :)

186 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:31:59pm

re: #178 buzzsawmonkey

Old Sumerians never die, they just Babylon.

Ummm... Ur... Okay.

/stretching my ancient and medieval history part of my brain...

187 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:32:06pm

re: #181 Occasional Reader

I believe it's a prohibition on mixed fibers (wool plus cotton). I very much doubt that polyester is mentioned in the Old Testament...

Yeah, it's 19:19, linen mixed with wool

I'm tired today. Left a typo in my comment too.

188 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:32:17pm

re: #163 Danny

You'll have to re-register a new name... How 'bout "Sauropod Sara"?

No?


hmmm. palinasauraus rex?

189 independence  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:32:36pm

yes, she does say that. But does she say "it's ONLY been here 6000 years"?

I appreciate the feedback and I did state I haven't seen the video yet. My point is that I was asking if it can be argued that maybe she pulled 6000 years old of the air or is she expressing preaching the creationist blather?

re: #150 sattv4u2

re: #128 independence


, this earth’s been here 6,000 years and I know I’m goin’ on and on and I’ll shut up ... It’s been here 6,000 years

Direct quote. She says it TWICE in the same sentence

190 jaunte  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:32:39pm

re: #181 Occasional Reader

I very much doubt that polyester is mentioned in the Old Testament...


It's right next to the prohibition on disco and drum machines.

191 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:32:40pm

re: #184 OldLineTexan

YOU don't understand how people blindly hang onto ideas through faith?

/

Heh.

192 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:32:43pm

re: #181 Occasional Reader

I believe it's a prohibition on mixed fibers (wool plus cotton). I very much doubt that polyester is mentioned in the Old Testament...

There's a whole Book of PolyEsther!

/

193 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:32:50pm

re: #174 buzzsawmonkey

There is no prohibition against synthetic fibers in Leviticus, or anywhere else in the Torah. Rayon and nylon were not known in the ancient world, and are in no way prohibited today.

But how about Spandex?

194 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:32:57pm

re: #163 Danny

You'll have to re-register a new name... How 'bout "Sauropod Sara"?

No?

Er ken sich rufen Vistyoizel.

195 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:33:01pm

re: #169 Occasional Reader

Babylon sisters, shake it!

196 Gang of One  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:33:24pm

re: #174 buzzsawmonkey

There is no prohibition against synthetic fibers in Leviticus, or anywhere else in the Torah. Rayon and nylon were not known in the ancient world, and are in no way prohibited today.

Was Ice perhaps referring to shatnes, the prohibition against mixing fibers of wool and linen?

197 Digital Display  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:33:27pm

re: #166 iceweasel

Exactly, it's like wanting to take Leviticus serious when it comes to the prohibition on homosexuality, but ignoring the prohibitions on shellfish and synthetic fibers.

So it does say something in the Bible about 3 piece polyester Suits...
I knew it. I'm with God on this one...

198 docremulac  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:33:36pm

So let me get this straight, I've got two choices of political parties:

1- The Democrats that support totalitarian fascist government control on all aspects of our lives and virtual slavery through a taxation plan that answers the question "How much should we pay?" with "How much do you have?"

or:

2- The Republicans who argue that the issue we need to obsess about constantly, even if it means keeping us out of power forever is overturning Roe vs Wade so 3 or 4 states will be able to outlaw abortion forcing women who want them to drive to the next state to get them. Then we need to accept that believing in the possibility of some higher order of knowledge about the universe, it's origins etc. means calling everything un-knowable except that Jesus rode a dinasaur.

The Democrats are pure evil and really stupid but doesn't mean that the Republicans aren't really stupid as well.

199 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:33:49pm

re: #174 buzzsawmonkey

There is no prohibition against synthetic fibers in Leviticus, or anywhere else in the Torah. Rayon and nylon were not known in the ancient world, and are in no way prohibited today.

See 170, 181, and 187.

200 Yashmak  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:33:54pm

re: #189 independence

. My point is that I was asking if it can be argued that maybe she pulled 6000 years old of the air or is she expressing preaching the creationist blather?

So you're saying that she's either an ignorant young-earth creationist, or simply ignorant?

201 RightOnTheLeftCoast  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:34:00pm

re: #89 jaunte

Anyone agree we should be mining uranium?

Oh, absolutely!
It's just that her rationale is so laughable that it tends to discredit an otherwise sensible policy. Having people like her "on our side" is killing us!

202 albusteve  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:34:07pm

re: #184 OldLineTexan

YOU don't understand how people blindly hang onto ideas through faith?

/

which is exactly what BO supporters do

203 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:34:15pm

re: #187 iceweasel

Yeah, it's 19:19, linen mixed with wool

I believe it comes right before the prohibition against wearing white after Labor Day, and just before the injunction against mixing pearls and corduroy.

204 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:34:21pm

re: #179 SpaceJesus

I wonder if I can make my negative karma eclipse the age (sarah palin and the GOP's version) of the earth by the end of work today. 4.7k to go i think... it's doable.

Hatzlachah in dein karma tachlis!

205 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:34:21pm

re: #193 pre-Boomer Marine brat

But how about Spandex?

Depends on who's wearing it.

206 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:34:21pm

re: #197 HoosierHoops

So it does say something in the Bible about 3 piece polyester Suits...
I knew it. I'm with God on this one...

Those are an abomination before the lord! :)

207 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:34:28pm

re: #189 independence

Hmmmm, spinning ain't working here, dude. But keep on trying, the 6000 year old earth needs cooling.

208 sattv4u2  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:34:44pm

re: #189 independence

yes, she does say that. But does she say "it's ONLY been here 6000 years"?

I appreciate the feedback and I did state I haven't seen the video yet. My point is that I was asking if it can be argued that maybe she pulled 6000 years old of the air or is she expressing preaching the creationist blather?

Lets put 2 and 2 together
FACT , she said it
FACT , creationists use 6,000 years as the bechnmark

COINCIDENCE? I think not, your sematical But does she say "it's ONLY been here 6000 years"? aside

209 independence  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:34:46pm

Thank you. I've been lurking for a long time, mostly too busy to toss in a comment or too busy for serious civil debate

Most of the topics are engaging as are most of the comments... most....

re: #176 wrenchwench

re: #128 independence


You've waited a while to express yourself. Welcome to the discussion!

210 BlueCanuck  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:34:58pm

re: #183 RightOnTheLeftCoast

Can't listen to it at work. Does it have the cut out shorts and the complaint about tassles?

211 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:35:03pm

re: #192 OldLineTexan

There's a whole Book of PolyEsther!

/

Damn. That was the pun I was supposed to have thought of.

(I believe the French call this esprit d'escalier.)

212 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:35:22pm
213 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:35:43pm

re: #197 HoosierHoops

So it does say something in the Bible about 3 piece polyester Suits...
I knew it. I'm with God on this one...

(why th' hell is it so much trouble to hit the upding button while you're laughing!)

214 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:35:46pm
215 Dave the.....  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:35:49pm

Ignorance of science in elected types isn't limited to creationist Republicans.

Almost the entire Democrat party of Minnesota believes that if your state is one of highest tax states in tehe country, it actually increases the standard of living.

Barry Obama and Harry Ried believe nuclear power is so dangerous, that we shouldn't have it.

Nancy Pelosi thinks windmills provide the same amount of energy as a coal fired power plant.

216 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:36:02pm

re: #154 Occasional Reader

That wasn't a flood, it was a STORM, dummy.

The weather started getting rough
The tiny ship was tossed...

Like, hellooo? And here I thought you were a classically-educated man. Sheesh.

Oh for the love of the Gods! The Professor could build a radio, homes, and yet they couldn't fix a frakking boat! /

217 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:36:02pm

re: #179 SpaceJesus

I wonder if I can make my negative karma eclipse the age (sarah palin and the GOP's version) of the earth by the end of work today. 4.7k to go i think... it's doable.

I will help.
:)

218 Kenneth  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:36:13pm

re: #133 HoosierHoops

The speed of light kind of blows creationism out the water... Cause you know it started out at one trillion mph and has slowed down the last few thousand
years to 186,000mph....And it keeps slowing down.....In a few years it will probably be running in the Tour de France and loosing badly to Lance....
Stupid light

No. The speed of light is 186,000 miles per second. And it's been constant from the Big Bang on.

219 independence  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:36:23pm

hmmm. Not spinning. Just a thought. Again, I stated that I cannot yet watch the video so I do not know first hand if she's spewing...

re: #207 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #189 independence

Hmmmm, spinning ain't working here, dude. But keep on trying, the 6000 year old earth needs cooling.

220 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:36:27pm

re: #196 Gang of One

Was Ice perhaps referring to shatnes, the prohibition against mixing fibers of wool and linen?

Yes.

221 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:36:45pm

How long has ManBearPig been on the earth?

222 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:37:01pm

Babylon, Long Island.

/Thats pronounced Lon GI-land to you foreigners west of the Hudson...

223 jaunte  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:37:10pm

Uranium mining:

Note that currently the world's supply of Uranium is heavily dependent on only a few mines. Nearly 100% of all new mined uranium is derived from only 10 mines worldwide, and approximately 40% of all newly mined uranium is derived from only three mines: 1. The McArthur River Mine -- owned by Cameco in Canada, at 17% of world production; 2. Olympic Dam -- now owned by BHP (Australia) at 9% of world production; 3. Ranger 3 -- owned by Energy Resources of Australia (ERA) at 12% of world production.
[Link: stockmarketnotes.blogspot.com...]
224 Yashmak  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:37:18pm

re: #212 taxfreekiller

On the other hand, near by, California will be 6,000 years paying off the
debt load the liberal Democrats of the Obama/Pelosi gene pool have loaded on the people of California.

Make no mistake, a good portion of that debt load was heaped on us Californians by themselves, and our maddening habit as a state of passing any legislation, no matter the cost or economic environment, that sounds in any way idealistic or progressive.

225 independence  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:37:29pm

has anyone got her pinned to any Creationist groups yet?

226 Dave the.....  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:37:44pm

Wait, are you guys saying the earth hasn't been here for 6,000 years? (yes, I know what we are saying, but I had to put that down)

227 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:37:46pm

re: #205 Kosh's Shadow

Depends on who's wearing it.

Were you throwing me a curve on that one, or just trying to be hip?

/... :D ... it was a waisted effort

228 VioletTiger  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:37:50pm

Hey, what happened to mr. witwwats?

229 hans ze beeman  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:37:54pm
It’s been here 6,000 years, long before anybody had environmental laws, and somehow it hasn’t been done away with.

This sentence is so sparkling with ignorance. Amazing.

230 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:38:01pm

re: #189 independence

My point is that I was asking if it can be argued that maybe she pulled 6000 years old of the air or is she expressing preaching the creationist blather?

Is there another form of blather that's fixated on the 6,000 year figure? The number itself is a giveaway.

231 independence  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:38:01pm

or is she suddenly outed from the Creationist closet?

232 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:38:13pm
233 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:38:15pm

re: #228 VioletTiger

Hey, what happened to mr. witwwats?

Trolled out it would seem.

234 poteen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:38:24pm

re: #172 CIA Reject

Makes me want to write a book from the contractors perspective. Some jobs feel like an eternity. Or 6000 years
/Economy gives me plenty of time lately to write

235 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:38:39pm

re: #214 buzzsawmonkey

Mixing wool and linen is prohibited--except for the curtains of the Tabernacle and in priestly garments.

It doesn't sound very comfortable to begin with.

Any problems with mixing Goretex and Primaloft? I want to know if my winter outerwear is going to damn me to eternal hellfire.

236 VioletTiger  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:38:54pm

re: #233 FurryOldGuyJeans

Trolled out it would seem.

Drive-by trolling.

237 BlueCanuck  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:39:08pm

re: #218 Kenneth

No. The speed of light is 186,000 miles per second. And it's been constant from the Big Bang on.

I don't have the links but there's been a few times in history where the speed of light was different. Possibly during the early expansion, and recently about at least 600 million years ago I think. The natural reactor in Africa recorded the latest change. Or at least that's the only explanation they have come up with for some anamalous readings.

238 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:39:27pm

re: #214 buzzsawmonkey

Mixing wool and linen is prohibited--except for the curtains of the Tabernacle and in priestly garments.

Cotton is not mentioned in the Torah (nor is silk), and mixtures of wool and cotton, wool and silk, silk and cotton, silk and linen, linen and cotton, etc.--not to mention any of these with admixtures of synthetic fibers--are perfectly kosher.

That's what I like about you -- you give us all the flax.

239 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:39:32pm
240 avanti  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:39:57pm

re: #157 Dianna

Tower of Babel, avanti.

Babylon is later.

I should know better, but I don't have a Babel fish. :)

241 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:40:01pm

re: #221 Mad Al-Jaffee

How long has ManBearPig been on the earth?

Ask us a serial question.

/

242 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:40:22pm

re: #218 Kenneth

No. The speed of light is 186,000 miles per second. And it's been constant from the Big Bang on.

I think HH was sarcastically referring to creationist arguments.

(And that's 186,282, to be precise.... in a vacuum.)

243 Digital Display  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:40:32pm

re: #216 lawhawk

Oh for the love of the Gods! The Professor could build a radio, homes, and yet they couldn't fix a frakking boat! /

Would you fix the boat if you were on a deserted Island with Ginger and Mary-ann?

244 mfarmer1  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:40:51pm

C'mon GOP, purge these nutters. Unless of course your ranks are swollen with them which is starting to look more and more likely.

Can we please just get some normal people into office? I don't even care that much anymore about political leanings for Pete's sake.

Earth is 6000 years old? Sayonara.
Living within our means is meaningless? Adios.
We have nukes so they should have nukes too? Auf Wiedersehen.
The Bible should replace The Constitution? Zai Jain.
9-11 inside job/didn't land on Moon? Do svidaniya.

Abortion OK but you don't expect me to pay for it? Hello new elected official.

245 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:40:56pm

re: #161 Occasional Reader

FIFY

(I think it's amazing how the Bible predicted Babelfish.)

Responsible for more wars than any other invention.

246 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:41:01pm

6k. Practically a fetus.

247 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:41:23pm

re: #237 BlueCanuck

I don't have the links but there's been a few times in history where the speed of light was different. Possibly during the early expansion, and recently about at least 600 million years ago I think. The natural reactor in Africa recorded the latest change. Or at least that's the only explanation they have come up with for some anamalous readings.

The only recorded phenomenon that is faster than the speed of light is the speed of lie........

248 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:41:35pm

And let's not forget the Torah's prohibition against mixing nuts and gum.

(Smart cookies, dem joos.)

249 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:41:35pm

re: #152 hous bin pharteen

Well, there are their plans to bankrupt us with their health care reform. That's right folks, they're itching to penalize people who have chosen not to get health insurance and forcing them into paying for it. That's a tax - a cost that they would otherwise have not incurred. That's going to save people money? Really? In what alternative reality does that save that person money?

250 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:41:45pm

re: #216 lawhawk

Oh for the love of the Gods! The Professor could build a radio, homes, and yet they couldn't fix a frakking boat! /

Look at the groups on the island:
Mr. Howell had his wife.
The Skipper and Gilligan.
That left both Mary Ann and Ginger for the Professor.
He didn't want to leave.

251 Gang of One  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:41:48pm

re: #243 HoosierHoops

Would you fix the boat if you were on a deserted Island with Ginger and Mary-ann?

I'd fix the boat and put all the other stooges on it, stay with Ginger and Mary Ann.

252 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:41:57pm

re: #243 HoosierHoops

Would you fix the boat if you were on a deserted Island with Ginger and Mary-ann?

For Mary-ann, no, we'd stay stranded. Ginger... meh, could care less.

Mary-ann was the HOT one, IMHO.

253 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:42:11pm

She's a STATE senator?

Pffffft.

254 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:42:24pm

re: #243 HoosierHoops

Yes, to get Gilligan, Skipper, Lovey and Thurson Howell the heck away....

255 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:42:54pm

re: #192 OldLineTexan

There's a whole Book of PolyEsther!

/

Indeed. And I think they had nylon, since the heir to the company that invented it is mentioned - DuPontius Pilate.

256 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:43:01pm

re: #253 Ben Hur

She's a STATE senator?

Pffffft.

Yes, I enjoyed the "she's YOUR government" comments.

No, she's not.

We in Texas have our OWN halfwits, thankyouverymuch.

257 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:43:12pm

re: #242 Occasional Reader

I think HH was sarcastically referring to creationist arguments.

(And that's 186,282, to be precise.... in a vacuum.)

My vacuum doesn't go nearly that fast.

258 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:43:13pm
259 soxfan4life  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:43:15pm

re: #249 lawhawk

Well, there are their plans to bankrupt us with their health care reform. That's right folks, they're itching to penalize people who have chosen not to get health insurance and forcing them into paying for it. That's a tax - a cost that they would otherwise have not incurred. That's going to save people money? Really? In what alternative reality does that save that person money?

The same one where allowing tax cuts to expire isn't the same as increasing taxes.

260 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:43:20pm

re: #248 Occasional Reader

And let's not forget the Torah's prohibition against mixing nuts and gum.

(Smart cookies, dem joos.)

But doesn't the practice of unleavened bred lead to genetic disorders?

261 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:43:36pm
262 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:43:39pm

re: #235 Occasional Reader

It doesn't sound very comfortable to begin with.

Any problems with mixing Goretex and Primaloft? I want to know if my winter outerwear is going to damn me to eternal hellfire.

Depends. According to deuteronomy 22:11: "Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woolen and linen together."

If it counts as 'divers sorts', I'll make room in the handbasket I'm travelling in for you. :)

263 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:43:43pm

re: #257 doppelganglander

My vacuum doesn't go nearly that fast.

I wanna know how he sees inside my Kirby.

/

264 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:43:49pm

re: #257 doppelganglander

My vacuum doesn't go nearly that fast.

You didn't get the Warp-Drive Roomba?

265 KingKenrod  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:44:01pm

I find the amount of scorn and insults being directed at this woman in this thread to be very distasteful.

She has a high school education (1965) and grew up during a time when females were not encouraged to pursue science. She's 62 years old and a Mormon.

She's got 5 children and 18 grandchildren, and has her own real estate business. I'm sure she's spent the bulk of her life running her business and being a mother, not investigating theories about the Earth's origin. It is normal for some people to have no curiosity about science, just as some people have no curiosity about mathematics or social services or medicine.

So if she never formed a science-based opinion on the Earth's age from what she learned in religious instruction as a child, it's no mystery. It doesn't mean she's stupid or incapable of leading, she's just ignorant of something most of us (mostly younger people) take for granted.

266 Yashmak  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:44:08pm

re: #256 OldLineTexan

Yes, I enjoyed the "she's YOUR government" comments.

No, she's not.

We in Texas have our OWN halfwits, thankyouverymuch.

In California, we'd be HAPPY to have elected officials that qualified as high as half-wittedness. I think ours average about eighth-wits.

267 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:44:17pm

re: #259 soxfan4life

The same one where allowing tax cuts to expire isn't the same as increasing taxes.

Well, both parties claim they're cutting spending when they cut it from a proposed budget, but it is still higher than the year before.

268 hans ze beeman  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:44:33pm

re: #247 LGoPs

Don't forget the Hartman effect

269 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:44:50pm

re: #255 doppelganglander

Indeed. And I think they had nylon, since the heir to the company that invented it is mentioned - DuPontius Pilate.

I thought Pontius Pilot was the guy who flew the plane during the Flight to Egypt?

270 JustABill  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:45:01pm

re: #193 pre-Boomer Marine brat

But how about Spandex?

Thats a bit of a stretch I think...

271 debutaunt  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:45:01pm

re: #242 Occasional Reader

I think HH was sarcastically referring to creationist arguments.

(And that's 186,282, to be precise.... in a vacuum.)

How it got into the vacuum...

272 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:45:15pm

re: #264 Occasional Reader

You didn't get the Warp-Drive Roomba?

I did, but I've never seen it.

/

273 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:45:40pm

re: #269 Occasional Reader

Nope. It's the beta version of the Palm Pilate.

274 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:45:42pm

re: #267 Kosh's Shadow

Well, both parties claim they're cutting spending when they cut it from a proposed budget, but it is still higher than the year before.

Yeah, taking less money from people than they really want is a benefit to the tax payers.

With logic like that is there any wonder why we are all going bust?

275 soxfan4life  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:45:52pm

re: #267 Kosh's Shadow

Well, both parties claim they're cutting spending when they cut it from a proposed budget, but it is still higher than the year before.

Yah, look at me I'm fiscally reponsible, I'm only overspending 1/2 as much as the other guy. And the silence from so called journalists is amazing.

276 hans ze beeman  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:45:57pm

re: #269 Occasional Reader

I thought Pontius Pilot was the guy who flew the plane during the Flight to Egypt?

Pontius Pilates even invented his own sport

277 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:46:03pm

re: #262 iceweasel

If it counts as 'divers sorts',

Clearly, that's a prohibition against wetsuits.

278 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:46:12pm

re: #272 OldLineTexan

I did, but I've never seen it.

/

That's much better than what I was going to say, so I'll just let you have the floor.

279 Kenneth  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:46:25pm

re: #180 Kosh's Shadow

Are you saying God made the earth 6000 years ago, but made it look like it formed naturally 4.5 billion years ago and, made it look as if it had undergone 4.5 billion years of geological change & evolution? Why? Why would a sensible God do such a ridiculous thing?

280 Yashmak  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:46:42pm

re: #265 KingKenrod


So if she never formed a science-based opinion on the Earth's age from what she learned in religious instruction as a child, it's no mystery. It doesn't mean she's stupid or incapable of leading, she's just ignorant of something most of us (mostly younger people) take for granted.

She is an elected official in a state where the single most prominent landmark is orders of magnitude older than she claims the entire planet is, a fact that is general knowledge to most folks OUTSIDE of her state.

And most folks here are simply accusing her simply of ignorance, nothing more.

281 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:46:51pm

re: #276 hans ze beeman

Pontius Pilates even invented his own sport

And he went on to invent Cross-Training.

/sorry

282 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:47:19pm

re: #265 KingKenrod

I find the amount of scorn and insults being directed at this woman in this thread to be very distasteful.

She has a high school education (1965) and grew up during a time when females were not encouraged to pursue science. She's 62 years old and a Mormon.

She's got 5 children and 18 grandchildren, and has her own real estate business. I'm sure she's spent the bulk of her life running her business and being a mother, not investigating theories about the Earth's origin. It is normal for some people to have no curiosity about science, just as some people have no curiosity about mathematics or social services or medicine.

So if she never formed a science-based opinion on the Earth's age from what she learned in religious instruction as a child, it's no mystery. It doesn't mean she's stupid or incapable of leading, she's just ignorant of something most of us (mostly younger people) take for granted.

Almost fair, but ... I know nothing of brain surgery. In a discussion of brain surgery in a public forum, I would resort to attempting not to sleep.

283 redstateredneck  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:47:30pm

re: #276 hans ze beeman

Pontius Pilates even invented his own sport

True story. A woman at my church was reading the Christmas story out loud and she pronounced Pilate like Pilates (exercise). Bless her heart....

284 redstateredneck  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:48:01pm

re: #283 redstateredneck

True story. A woman at my church was reading the Christmas story out loud and she pronounced Pilate like Pilates (exercise). Bless her heart....

Make that Easter....I need caffeine

285 sattv4u2  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:48:11pm

re: #267 Kosh's Shadow

Well, both parties claim they're cutting spending when they cut it from a proposed budget, but it is still higher than the year before.

Old trick from former Boston Mayor Kevin White. He would come out and say the city would need to increase taxes by 10%. A month later, he would say that due to his hard work, the tax hike would be only 4% thus making it a 6% "TAX CUT"

286 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:48:11pm

re: #279 Kenneth

Are you saying God made the earth 6000 years ago, but made it look like it formed naturally 4.5 billion years ago and, made it look as if it had undergone 4.5 billion years of geological change & evolution? Why? Why would a sensible God do such a ridiculous thing?

Like fossils, it's a test.

/yes, yes...

287 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:48:30pm

re: #279 Kenneth

Are you saying God made the earth 6000 years ago, but made it look like it formed naturally 4.5 billion years ago and, made it look as if it had undergone 4.5 billion years of geological change & evolution? Why? Why would a sensible God do such a ridiculous thing?

He's trying to pawn it off as a fake "distressed" antique?

288 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:48:48pm

re: #281 Occasional Reader

And he went on to invent Cross-Training.

/sorry

I rescind my offer of sharing my handbasket. You're clearly on the express route!

/kidding. you're cracking me up today!

289 mfarmer1  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:48:53pm

re: #265 KingKenrod

Oh please. That's just laughable. If true, that's even more reason why she should not be a state senator but instead a freaking Ostrich in a petting zoo.

290 hans ze beeman  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:48:53pm

re: #281 Occasional Reader

And he went on to invent Cross-Training.

/sorry


Just as Jesus said: "After Pilates, I enjoy hanging around"

/blasphemy

291 Digital Display  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:49:48pm

re: #265 KingKenrod

Oh for Pete's sake.. If I would have tried saying that shit in 5th grade Science class the nuns would have flunked me...much less a High school graduate...
Maybe she doesn't understand Geology... Maybe she should shut the Hell up

292 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:49:49pm

We could always got the Saudi route:

July 8, 2009 - 11:27 AM
Saudi religious squad beefs up anti-vice patrols

RIYADH (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia's powerful religious police plan a summer anti-vice drive to enforce prayer-keeping and modesty in the conservative Gulf Arab state, its head said in remarks published Wednesday.

The Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice applies an austere interpretation of Islam in the kingdom, where clerics control the justice system.

With over 5,000 men, the force has wide powers to carry out raids in search of alcohol, ensure shops and restaurants are shut at prayer time, enforce the segregation of unrelated men and women in public and ban women from driving -- an activity clerics say is un-Islamic.

293 WinterCat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:50:18pm

re: #265 KingKenrod

I find the amount of scorn and insults being directed at this woman in this thread to be very distasteful.

She has a high school education (1965) and grew up during a time when females were not encouraged to pursue science. She's 62 years old and a Mormon.

She's got 5 children and 18 grandchildren, and has her own real estate business. I'm sure she's spent the bulk of her life running her business and being a mother, not investigating theories about the Earth's origin. It is normal for some people to have no curiosity about science, just as some people have no curiosity about mathematics or social services or medicine.

So if she never formed a science-based opinion on the Earth's age from what she learned in religious instruction as a child, it's no mystery. It doesn't mean she's stupid or incapable of leading, she's just ignorant of something most of us (mostly younger people) take for granted.

She is a state senator. She is in a position to set public policy. If she misspoke, it is one thing but from what I see, this is her belief and not a misstatement. I think that she should at least know roughly how old the earth is. I don't think that is too much to ask.

294 Kenneth  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:50:32pm

re: #262 iceweasel

Depends. According to deuteronomy 22:11: "Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woolen and linen together."

If it counts as 'divers sorts', I'll make room in the handbasket I'm travelling in for you. :)

I think they were referring to the ungodly practice of wearing plaid pants, a striped shirt and a paisley tie.

295 poteen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:50:32pm

re: #265 KingKenrod

That and the fact is she's arguing in the clip in favor of opening up business for her area and "get some money out of it". She may truly believe the earth is 6000 yrs. old but she also believes in doing whats best for her constituents, not what the environmental lobby wants.

296 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:50:36pm

re: #260 pre-Boomer Marine brat

But doesn't the practice of unleavened bred lead to genetic disorders?

Heh..... no, just really flat bread ;-)

297 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:50:45pm

re: #265 KingKenrod

It is normal for some people to have no curiosity about science

Erm... it's not like this woman was getting grilled on the intricacies of String Theory. This is pretty basic stuff here.

I don't think she's somehow a bad person for delivering the "6,000 years" line, but it is depressing to hear it.

298 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:50:53pm

re: #265 KingKenrod

You're trying to be kind, which is commendable. But most people pick up new bits of general knowledge long after our school days. Also, the Mormon church does not officially support creationism.

299 NonNativeTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:51:10pm

And she also praises technological achievements!

As I have expressed before, the majority of creationists
are not anti-science or anti-technology ,they are
anti-evolution. They have a "religious block" when it
comes to evolution. They believe in modern science,
modern medicine. They do not think electricity is magic
or cars are supernatural. I believe it is incorrect to label
creationist anti-science, the vast majority are not. They
are anti-evolution. And no, it doesn't make sense, but in
matters of faith, you don't believe something only if
it is provable.

300 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:51:48pm

re: #285 sattv4u2

Old trick from former Boston Mayor Kevin White. He would come out and say the city would need to increase taxes by 10%. A month later, he would say that due to his hard work, the tax hike would be only 4% thus making it a 6% "TAX CUT"

I regret that I have but 2 updings to give that. BRB.

//

301 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:52:04pm

re: #166 iceweasel

Exactly, it's like wanting to take Leviticus serious when it comes to the prohibition on homosexuality, but ignoring the prohibitions on shellfish and synthetic fibers.

Yeah, it's the Sabbath but let's go stone the homo anyway--right after I finish my cheeseburger and you eat that shrimp cocktail.////

I do not know how many times I have to explain that one to some fellow Christian who wants to open a can of whup-ass of a member of the local gay community.

302 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:52:17pm

re: #292 FurryOldGuyJeans

We could always got the Saudi route:

July 8, 2009 - 11:27 AM
Saudi religious squad beefs up anti-vice patrols

Law & Order: Adultress Stoning Unit

303 funky chicken  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:52:52pm

re: #57 jaunte

The US has gone from producing 24% of the world's uranium in 1980, to producing just 2% in 2003. Given that we probably need more nuclear power generation, it is a good idea to open up some mining again.

yep, but how sad to have the issue clouded by this loon. she could have said that the US mines minerals safer and cleaner than anybody and that we need to increase our uranium production for clean energy and to lessen our dependence upon hostile foreign nations, but no.....she has to say that Jesus will protect the earth, so why bother with environmental regulations?

aaarrrggghhh

304 LGoPs  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:53:20pm

re: #292 FurryOldGuyJeans

We could always got the Saudi route:

July 8, 2009 - 11:27 AM
Saudi religious squad beefs up anti-vice patrols

RIYADH (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia's powerful religious police plan a summer anti-vice drive to enforce prayer-keeping and modesty in the conservative Gulf Arab state, its head said in remarks published Wednesday.

The Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice applies an austere interpretation of Islam in the kingdom, where clerics control the justice system.

With over 5,000 men, the force has wide powers to carry out raids in search of alcohol, ensure shops and restaurants are shut at prayer time, enforce the segregation of unrelated men and women in public and ban women from driving -- an activity clerics say is un-Islamic.

The Mettawa are scary fuckers - had some close encounters when I lived there. And they have their sense of humor surgically removed//
They make the Borg look like Benny Hill.

305 avanti  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:53:58pm

re: #265 KingKenrod

I find the amount of scorn and insults being directed at this woman in this thread to be very distasteful.

She has a high school education (1965) and grew up during a time when females were not encouraged to pursue science. She's 62 years old and a Mormon.

She's got 5 children and 18 grandchildren, and has her own real estate business. I'm sure she's spent the bulk of her life running her business and being a mother, not investigating theories about the Earth's origin. It is normal for some people to have no curiosity about science, just as some people have no curiosity about mathematics or social services or medicine.

So if she never formed a science-based opinion on the Earth's age from what she learned in religious instruction as a child, it's no mystery. It doesn't mean she's stupid or incapable of leading, she's just ignorant of something most of us (mostly younger people) take for granted.

Good points all, and one more. If you truly purged folks that believed like her from the voter roles, the GOP never win another election. Like it or not, Evangelical Christians are the foundation of the GOP's present base.

306 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:53:58pm

re: #303 funky chicken

yep, but how sad to have the issue clouded by this loon. she could have said that the US mines minerals safer and cleaner than anybody and that we need to increase our uranium production for clean energy and to lessen our dependence upon hostile foreign nations, but no.....she has to say that Jesus will protect the earth, so why bother with environmental regulations?

aaarrrggghhh

Clowns to the left of me
jokers to the right...

307 srb1976  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:54:00pm

Afernoon folks! Better half is in bed with a killer headache. I just got out of class and have a couple hours to kill....Hope you're all having a good day = )

308 hans ze beeman  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:54:46pm

re: #304 LGoPs

The Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice

Now that's a name for a commission

309 RightOnTheLeftCoast  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:54:54pm

re: #210 BlueCanuck

Can't listen to it at work. Does it have the cut out shorts and the complaint about tassles?

Yep, that's the one. :)
(I believe the formal term is "fenes du breeze", or "zephyr window")

310 Danny  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:55:02pm

re: #265 KingKenrod

I totally agree with you about some of the insults being distasteful. I find it very amusing, too.

311 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:55:04pm

re: #279 Kenneth

Are you saying God made the earth 6000 years ago, but made it look like it formed naturally 4.5 billion years ago and, made it look as if it had undergone 4.5 billion years of geological change & evolution? Why? Why would a sensible God do such a ridiculous thing?

He's into practical jokes?
He's not God, but an intergalactic, interdimensional, art forger?
And--for you Star Trek fans--this isn't the real Earth--it's a replacement. The real one was destroyed 6,001 years ago and God made this nifty new that looks like the old one just for us. It just took us that long to figure it out./

312 Buster  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:55:13pm

She is simply using metric years. Each metric year = 100,000,000 "english" years. So it all works out.

313 yochanan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:55:51pm

re: #170 iceweasel

both christians and jews believe in a reserection of the dead and there are opinions that Jesus was a observent jew so if he were to come back might the two things he would notice

1. what with these bacon cheeseburgers
2. and what about sunday vs sat.

314 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:57:04pm

re: #304 LGoPs

The Mettawa are scary fuckers - had some close encounters when I lived there.

Do they ever have to go up against someone who would effectively fight back?

I wonder how tough they'd be then.

315 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:57:45pm

re: #301 calcajun

Yeah, it's the Sabbath but let's go stone the homo anyway--right after I finish my cheeseburger and you eat that shrimp cocktail.////

I do not know how many times I have to explain that one to some fellow Christian who wants to open a can of whup-ass of a member of the local gay community.

Exactly. That horrible 'church' in westboro that pickets soldiers funerals and says that God hates America because He hates gay people has a site-- i'm sure people know-- "Godhatesgaypeople.com" (only he uses a slur for gay people, of course)

I love the gay activist site mocking them, called-- what else?-- "god hates shrimp."

[Link: www.godhatesshrimp.com...]

Shrimp, crab, lobster, clams, mussels, all these are an abomination before the Lord, just as gays are an abomination. Why stop at protesting gay marriage? Bring all of God's law unto the heathens and the sodomites. We call upon all Christians to join the crusade against Long John Silver's and Red Lobster. Yea, even Popeye's shall be cleansed. The name of Bubba shall be anathema. We must stop the unbelievers from destroying the sanctity of our restaurants.

316 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:57:55pm

re: #302 Occasional Reader

Law & Order: Adultress Stoning Unit

Their motto: We rock; you roll//

317 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:58:20pm

re: #313 yochanan

bacon cheeseburgers

It's amazing, almost everything tastes better with bacon.

318 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:58:34pm

re: #315 iceweasel

Get thee behind me, crustacean!

319 jvic  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:58:42pm

re: #214 buzzsawmonkey

Mixing wool and linen is prohibited--except for the curtains of the Tabernacle and in priestly garments.

Cotton is not mentioned in the Torah (nor is silk), and mixtures of wool and cotton, wool and silk, silk and cotton, silk and linen, linen and cotton, etc.--not to mention any of these with admixtures of synthetic fibers--are perfectly kosher.

re: #262 iceweasel

Depends. According to deuteronomy 22:11: "Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woolen and linen together.

We won't know for sure unless archeologists find a copy of Deuteronomy in the original Gaelic.

(Yes I was raised Catholic. How did you know?)

320 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:58:46pm

re: #313 yochanan

both christians and jews believe in a reserection of the dead and there are opinions that Jesus was a observent jew so if he were to come back might the two things he would notice

1. what with these bacon cheeseburgers
2. and what about sunday vs sat.

That brings to mind a question ("begs the question" ... for OR's benefit ;-)

Is there a single word to describe "not kosher"? ....similar to Haram?

321 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:58:48pm
322 NoWhereAlaska  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:58:50pm

re: #302 Occasional Reader

Law & Order: Adultress Stoning Unit

Where do I sign up. I want to get stoned with an adultress. So long as my spouse doesn't find out.

323 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:59:20pm

re: #316 calcajun

Their motto: We rock; you roll//

And the series theme music for the credit sequence would of course be "Everybody Must Get Stoned."

(Yes, for you old-timers, I'm re-running my LGF material from circa 2004)

324 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:59:23pm

re: #317 MrSilverDragon

It's amazing, almost everything tastes better with bacon.

Even bacon! From told Drew Carey show: bacon-wrapped sausage balls.

325 Kenneth  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:59:31pm

re: #317 MrSilverDragon

or chocolate,

but not both.

326 Spenser (with an S)  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 12:59:37pm

re: #301 calcajun

I do not know how many times I have to explain that one to some fellow Christian who wants to open a can of whup-ass of a member of the local gay community.

Seriously? This has happened more than once to you? Not ever once in my life, even while drinking has that ever happened to me with Christian or non-Christian friends. You mean a metaphorical can of whup-ass, right? Or, if not, do you live in a frat-house?

327 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:00:02pm
328 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:00:02pm

re: #320 eschew_obfuscation

That brings to mind a question ("begs the question" ... for OR's benefit ;-)

Is there a single word to describe "not kosher"? ....similar to Haram?

Treif

329 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:00:23pm

re: #311 calcajun

No... silly you... the Vogons destroyed it to make way for an intergalactic highway. Slartibartfast and his crew were able to build Earth Mark II to replace the recently demolished Earth. Surely you didn't ignore that memo, did you? /

330 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:00:24pm

Booya!

331 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:00:50pm

Wow.

EXACTLY at the same time.

332 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:00:56pm

re: #319 jvic

We won't know for sure unless archeologists find a copy of Deuteronomy in the original Gaelic.

(Yes I was raised Catholic. How did you know?)

Like knows like, perhaps? :)

333 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:01:07pm

re: #320 eschew_obfuscation

traif

334 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:01:22pm
335 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:01:59pm

re: #314 Occasional Reader

Do they ever have to go up against someone who would effectively fight back?

I wonder how tough they'd be then.

I didn't know how many Mettawa it would take to whup my ass - but I had a good idea of how many they were going to use.

/Ron al-White

336 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:02:06pm

re: #321 buzzsawmonkey

The notions that all Christians = evangelical

And to further confuse things: I'm not a practicing Christian, but I'm a big fan of Evangelista.

337 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:02:10pm

OT but very exciting: Amazon dropped the price of the Kindle to $299. If they go to $249 by Christmas, I'm in.

338 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:02:49pm
re: #327 buzzsawmonkey

Treif.

328 Ben Hur
7/08/09 1:00:02 pm

Treif

Thanks folks! Learn something new every day....

339 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:03:02pm
340 yochanan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:03:02pm

re: #320 eschew_obfuscation

traif which means torn but also means non kosher.

341 funky chicken  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:03:09pm

re: #322 NoWhereAlaska

Where do I sign up. I want to get stoned with an adultress. So long as my spouse doesn't find out.

Or, I presume, that she's not going to show up one day and blow your brains out a al Mr. McNair?

342 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:03:29pm

re: #334 buzzsawmonkey

G-d, but you're an asshole.

Huh?

343 avanti  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:03:44pm

re: #258 taxfreekiller

30 days of -50 back to 6400 on the DOW

bets?

or 60 days of -50, + 25 every other day, 6400 on the DOW

more medicine? of a stimulus kind?

I'll take a bet that it breaks 9000 by years end, rather then dropping below 7000 again.

344 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:04:21pm

re: #325 Kenneth

or chocolate,

but not both.

I dunno... dark chocolate covered maple bacon...

345 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:04:41pm

re: #334 buzzsawmonkey

G-d, but you're an asshole.

Hush, Clarice. People will say that we are in love.

346 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:04:51pm

re: #335 OldLineTexan

I didn't know how many Mettawa it would take to whup my ass - but I had a good idea of how many they were going to use.

/Ron al-White

This paragraph from the article is a real source of irony:

"The commission's men are called upon to orient people in what serves best the public interest, treat them with kindness and tolerance, to keep good intentions and prevent vice from happening," Okaz newspaper quoted Humeen as saying.

347 Kenneth  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:05:24pm

What media bias?

348 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:05:30pm

re: #339 buzzsawmonkey

(In my best Conrad Veidt voice): "I expected no less."

(And it's a chick AND a gun... double word score.)

349 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:05:37pm

re: #342 Occasional Reader

Huh?

Exactly.

350 KenJen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:05:48pm

re: #343 avanti

I'll take a bet that it breaks 9000 by years end, rather then dropping below 7000 again.

I don't think we will see 9,000 for another 6,000 years.

351 yochanan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:06:08pm

so how many goyium are on this thread anyway i doubt most of them would know the word traif

ROFLMAO or should I say ROFLMT(TOUCKAS)O

352 avanti  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:06:17pm

re: #321 buzzsawmonkey

The notions that all Christians = evangelical, that all evangelicals = creationists, and that the GOP = evangelicals and therefore = creationists is a syllogistic logical fallacy, and as bone-headedly ignorant as saying that the Earth is only 6000 years old.

Read the polling on red state creationists or just look at the drive to teach it in red states. They are more common then you may expect in the GOP.

353 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:06:33pm

re: #337 doppelganglander

OT but very exciting: Amazon dropped the price of the Kindle to $299. If they go to $249 by Christmas, I'm in.

I might be interested in a $250 color Kindle. But I'm still not sure.

354 debutaunt  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:06:37pm

re: #343 avanti

I'll take a bet that it breaks 9000 by years end, rather then dropping below 7000 again.

Based on inflationary dollars?

355 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:06:50pm

re: #351 yochanan

so how many goyium are on this thread anyway i doubt most of them would know the word traif

ROFLMAO or should I say ROFLMT(TOUCKAS)O

"goyium" sounds like an unstable isotope.

I prefer "infidel".

356 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:07:26pm

re: #352 avanti

Read the polling on red state creationists or just look at the drive to teach it in red states. They are more common then you may expect in the GOP.

Common yes, but not the entirety as you tried to ascribe earlier.

357 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:07:28pm

re: #352 avanti

Read the polling on red state creationists or just look at the drive to teach it in red states. They are more common then you may expect in the GOP.

Wow, not even the same subject.

358 NoWhereAlaska  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:07:34pm

re: #343 avanti

I'll take a bet that it breaks 9000 by years end, rather then dropping below 7000 again.


Well it just might go well above 9000 this year--just about the same time we hit triple digit inflation.

359 VioletTiger  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:07:40pm

re: #298 doppelganglander

You're trying to be kind, which is commendable. But most people pick up new bits of general knowledge long after our school days. Also, the Mormon church does not officially support creationism.

I agree. He was trying to be kind. Made me feel a bit bad for my snark.
However, it is extremely important that people in positions of leadership know and understand science fact. So many of the things they are asked to make judgments on involve science.
For example, I was being completely serious, although snarky, when I mention oil and gas deposits. It will be difficult to fight the good fight on access to oil and gas drilling if the people we want to lead the charge have no idea how those deposits got there and how long ago.

360 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:07:50pm

re: #355 OldLineTexan

"goyium" sounds like an unstable isotope.

I'm pretty sure that's what's used to power Dark Helmet's star cruiser.

361 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:07:55pm

re: #351 yochanan

so how many goyium are on this thread anyway i doubt most of them would know the word traif

ROFLMAO or should I say ROFLMT(TOUCKAS)O

Well..... only my dad's mother was a Jew....so....."+1"

362 NoWhereAlaska  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:08:03pm

re: #354 debutaunt

Based on inflationary dollars?


okay, you beat me to it!

363 yochanan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:08:04pm

re: #355 OldLineTexan

INFIDEL would be muslim

364 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:08:49pm

re: #354 debutaunt

Based on inflationary dollars?

Based on a relatively understated basis of the expected rate of inflation Dow 50,000 might be doable, with a can of coke costing $18.00.

365 Adrenalyn  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:08:55pm

well, Mitt might agree
this earth is 6,000 years old

and his will be zero when he dies and gets his own
then in 6,000 years he can run for POTUS again

/sarcasm, um kay
anyone who thinks Mitt will get elected with that / this hanging over him is ________ (take you pick of cliche's)

366 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:09:08pm
367 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:09:12pm

re: #302 Occasional Reader

Law & Order: Adultress Stoning Unit

Stoned adultress'? Cool. What channel?

368 avanti  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:09:24pm

re: #356 FurryOldGuyJeans

Common yes, but not the entirety as you tried to ascribe earlier.

I did not even slightly infer that. I did say, the GOP could not win without their vote, nothing more.

369 Truth Stick  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:09:54pm

re: #249 lawhawk

Well, there are their plans to bankrupt us with their health care reform. That's right folks, they're itching to penalize people who have chosen not to get health insurance and forcing them into paying for it. That's a tax - a cost that they would otherwise have not incurred. That's going to save people money? Really? In what alternative reality does that save that person money?

When I look at that(after I calm down) there must be some violation of my constitutional rights.

370 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:10:36pm

re: #326 Spenser (with an S)

Seriously? This has happened more than once to you? Not ever once in my life, even while drinking has that ever happened to me with Christian or non-Christian friends. You mean a metaphorical can of whup-ass, right? Or, if not, do you live in a frat-house?

Seriously, I have had some members of my church state that, in so many words, that they do not want to suffer to live any openly gay person--and they use the OT as justification for their beliefs. Some of them have been young Christians who simply latched onto some bit of scripture to support their world view. Those are the ones who I spoken to and got them off that track. Others really do believe it. Though they would not openly advocate killing a homosexual, I'm pretty sure that they would not stop and render aid to someone they knew was gay.

Anyway--back to the salt mines.

371 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:10:44pm

re: #368 avanti

Bullshit, and that is all I'm saying on the subject.

372 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:11:01pm

re: #365 Adrenalyn

well, Mitt might agree
this earth is 6,000 years old

and his will be zero when he dies and gets his own
then in 6,000 years he can run for POTUS again

/sarcasm, um kay
anyone who thinks Mitt will get elected with that / this hanging over him is ________ (take you pick of cliche's)

I don't think Mitt is a Young Earther. Still a Mormon, though, so you won't ever like him.

373 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:11:20pm

re: #366 buzzsawmonkey

Watching iceweasel moronically equate the grotesque Fred Phelps "church" with genuine Christians, as s/he gleefully does above, is offensive to me.

I did not read her post that way, at all. Rather, she was pointing out the absurdity of the Phelps crowd justifying their rabid hatred based on one not-terribly-clear biblical passage, when they could just as well come up with equally stupid hate campaigns based on others.

374 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:11:42pm

re: #369 Truth Stick

When I look at that(after I calm down) there must be some violation of my constitutional rights.

Probably not.... most states force drivers to have liability insurance in order to register/license a car.

375 jvic  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:11:48pm

re: #350 KenJen

I don't think we will see 9,000 for another 6,000 years.

Or a competent President, whichever comes first.

376 Gang of One  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:11:56pm

re: #338 eschew_obfuscation

Thanks folks! Learn something new every day....

Not to split hairs [or fibers] but most people understand "kosher" as a word for acceptable food. This is true, however, it applies to anything that the law finds acceptable. Treif only applies to comestibles. Anything else deemed unacceptable in law is called "pusul".

/Yeshiva bucher/mishneh student mode off.
//Recall that from my seventh grade rebbe.

377 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:12:06pm

re: #365 Adrenalyn

well, Mitt might agree
this earth is 6,000 years old

and his will be zero when he dies and gets his own
then in 6,000 years he can run for POTUS again

/sarcasm, um kay
anyone who thinks Mitt will get elected with that / this hanging over him is ________ (take you pick of cliche's)

You're wrong on all counts. The Mormon church (or LDS, if you prefer) does not support young-earth creationism. Further, I believe Romney is a very viable candidate - in fact, the best hope for the GOP to take back the White House. Huckabee might have been able to stir up plenty of anti-Mormon bigotry last time, but I don't think he'll get away with it again.

378 hans ze beeman  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:12:10pm

re: #366 buzzsawmonkey

And I thought you wanted to stone people a little light in the timberlands

379 Kenneth  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:12:26pm

re: #366 buzzsawmonkey

Honestly, that's not how I read that post at all. Iceweasel was making fun of Phelps by posting a link to a group which satirizes them. I thought it was pretty funny.

380 yochanan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:12:40pm

people in America are allowed to be wrong. anti religious bigotry is just as wrong as any other form of it.

381 WinterCat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:12:56pm

re: #365 Adrenalyn

well, Mitt might agree
this earth is 6,000 years old

and his will be zero when he dies and gets his own
then in 6,000 years he can run for POTUS again

/sarcasm, um kay
anyone who thinks Mitt will get elected with that / this hanging over him is ________ (take you pick of cliche's)

In his capacity as Gov of Mass what legislation did Romney back that forwarded the creationist view?

382 Adrenalyn  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:12:57pm

re: #372 wrenchwench

I don't think Mitt is a Young Earther. Still a Mormon, though, so you won't ever like him.

it's not that I won't like him dear and kind poster
he is not electable

you think the media went after Palin (and remember Newt)
wait until they get the Mormon angle on Mitt

383 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:13:03pm

re: #370 calcajun

Seriously, I have had some members of my church state that, in so many words, that they do not want to suffer to live any openly gay person--and they use the OT as justification for their beliefs. Some of them have been young Christians who simply latched onto some bit of scripture to support their world view. Those are the ones who I spoken to and got them off that track. Others really do believe it. Though they would not openly advocate killing a homosexual, I'm pretty sure that they would not stop and render aid to someone they knew was gay.

Anyway--back to the salt mines.

Honey, you need to find a new church.

384 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:13:13pm

re: #366 buzzsawmonkey

Watching iceweasel moronically equate the grotesque Fred Phelps "church" with genuine Christians, as s/he gleefully does above, is offensive to me.

Wrong. I made a statement against Fred Phelps's church specifically, in response to a poster who was making the very same point.

A point which was quite obvious to everyone else reading. You have allowed your personal dislike of me to interfere with your reading comprehension-- which is proven by the fact that you responded merely by calling me an 'asshole'.

Lighten up. You owe me an apology, although I do not expect to get it.

385 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:13:13pm

re: #336 Occasional Reader

That's a high Bar to Rafeli.

386 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:13:18pm

Comestibles?

Barnful of glory holes?

387 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:13:31pm

re: #315 iceweasel

I don't eat shrimp and I don't hate gay people but I think that you may have a problem with Christians.

388 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:14:33pm

re: #382 Adrenalyn

it's not that I won't like him dear and kind poster
he is not electable

you think the media went after Palin (and remember Newt)
wait until they get the Mormon angle on Mitt

I agree with and refer you to doppelganglander's #377.

389 yochanan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:14:42pm

re: #376 Gang of One

now the word 'glatt' means smooth now i can think of a number of things that are smooth but aren't kosher.

390 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:15:00pm

re: #387 Alouette

I don't eat shrimp and I don't hate gay people but I think that you may have a problem with Christians.

I have a problem with Fred Phelps. Not Christians.

I'd bet every Christian who isn't part of his 'church' would agree that he's the antithesis of Christian.

391 jcbunga  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:15:03pm

Obama, G-8 leaders agree on climate target

World Average Temperature increase limited to 2 degrees.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

I have just a few questions....

If the Earth refuses to comply, what then?

Why are they wasting time on such frivolous things and work on stopping REAL problems...like tectonic plate shifting.

392 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:15:22pm

re: #384 iceweasel

I eat gay people and don't hate shrimp.........wait a second!

393 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:15:35pm
394 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:15:38pm

re: #378 hans ze beeman

And I thought you wanted to stone people a little light in the timberlands

(Timberlands suck, by the way. The threw away their quality control once they realized people would buy them anyway, because they had become "ghetto fabulous".)

395 Mithrax  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:16:00pm

re: #390 iceweasel

I have a problem with Fred Phelps. Not Christians.

I'd bet every Christian who isn't part of his 'church' would agree that he's the antithesis of Christian.

The dude is scum.

And you can quote me on that.

396 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:16:20pm

re: #391 jcbunga

Obama, G-8 leaders agree on climate target

World Average Temperature increase limited to 2 degrees.

King Canute, please pick up the red courtesy phone.

397 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:16:24pm

re: #392 Ben Hur

I eat gay people and don't hate shrimp.........wait a second!

Daddy?

/don't ask me, I just type here.

398 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:16:41pm

re: #313 yochanan

both christians and jews believe in a reserection of the dead and there are opinions that Jesus was a observent jew so if he were to come back might the two things he would notice

1. what with these bacon cheeseburgers
2. and what about sunday vs sat.

Gentiles were never obligated in the laws of kashrut, those laws were intended only for Jews. Gentiles are also not required to observe Shabbat.

399 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:17:02pm

re: #395 Mithrax

The dude is scum.

And you can quote me on that.

I am quoting you right here, because it's true. :)

400 yochanan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:17:13pm

re: #385 lawhawk

an example of something that is very smooth.

401 RightOnTheLeftCoast  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:17:13pm

re: #374 eschew_obfuscation

Probably not.... most states force drivers to have liability insurance in order to register/license a car.

True... but driving is a privilege, not a right...
No state (at least, not yet...) forces you to buy a car. They are proposing to force you to buy health insurance.

402 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:17:27pm

Just because I enjoy yogurt in my ass and a popsicle in my mouth doesn't mean that Phelps is a Christian.

403 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:17:28pm

re: #386 Ben Hur

Go to your room, young man.

404 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:17:53pm

re: #398 Alouette

Gentiles were never obligated in the laws of kashrut, those laws were intended only for Jews. Gentiles are also not required to observe Shabbat.

Don't forget about the Shabbat Monkey!

405 Adrenalyn  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:17:53pm

re: #388 wrenchwench

I agree with and refer you to doppelganglander's #377.

you know, to be honest, I know nothing of Mitt
MAYBE he could counter it but he's got a very cocky media on his hands now - look at what they done Vern, with that 0bama feller

Bush never tried countering all the shit the media dumped on him
I'd sure wish him the best if he were elected

then again, if Alec Baldwin ran, would/could "we" use his "fat pig daughter" tape against him ?

406 jvic  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:18:05pm

re: #355 OldLineTexan

"goyium" sounds like an unstable isotope.

I prefer "infidel".

Goyjin.

407 Rancher  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:18:11pm
It’s been here 6,000 years


And she's right. At least 6,000 years.

408 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:18:35pm

re: #352 avanti

Read the polling on red state creationists or just look at the drive to teach it in red states. They are more common then you may expect in the GOP.

It's also more prominent than you think in the Democratic Party. The pushes are not just in so-called "red states".

Explain this guy, Avanti, Rev. Wilfredo De Jesus.

De Jesus says that he has never preached hatred of gay people and that his church's opposition to homosexuality is rooted in a literal interpretation of the Bible.

De Jesus already has blurred the lines between the pastor and politician. He spoke at the Democratic National Convention last year and recently accompanied U.S. Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D-Ill.) on a nationwide tour to promote the legalization of illegal immigrants.

These problems are not just the domain of the right. The left is just as afflicted.

409 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:19:03pm

re: #393 buzzsawmonkey

like all the other commandments in the Torah, are meant to apply to Jews, not everyone else.

So I'm free to enjoy all the shrimp-covered, linens n' woolen things-wrapped man-on-man lovin' I can handle. Well, that's just great.

410 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:19:08pm

re: #392 Ben Hur

People are updinging this?

411 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:19:36pm

re: #386 Ben Hur

Barnful of glory holes?

The Glory Hole at the Somme.

412 kansas  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:19:39pm

I think I was happier when I didn't know Republicans were such idiots.

413 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:19:40pm

re: #410 Ben Hur

People are updinging this?

Yes! It's funny! :)

414 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:19:40pm

re: #29 buzzsawmonkey

Well...it has been here 6000 years.

Plus several hundred billion, of course.

Actually, 13.7 billion for the universe, and 4.6 billion for the earth.

415 beblebrox  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:19:55pm

Someone should tell her that It's not nice to fool WITH Mother Nature.

Youtube Video
416 srb1976  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:20:02pm

re: #410 Ben Hur

People are updinging this?

That one was funny...the yogurt/popsicle thing...not so much = )

417 Kenneth  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:20:07pm

re: #402 Ben Hur

I don't know whether to up-ding or down-ding you for that. Is there a WTF button?

418 Gang of One  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:20:16pm

re: #389 yochanan

now the word 'glatt' means smooth now i can think of a number of things that are smooth but aren't kosher.

Isn't "glatt" a reference to the smoothness of the slaughtered steer's stomach[s] and is this not some Romanian thing? Same rebbe I had once called the "glatt" obsession "pop culture on the frum street".

419 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:20:22pm

'Chitty Chitty Bang Bang' banned
Published: July 8, 2009 at 1:00 PM

NORWICH, England, July 8 (UPI) -- The beloved vintage car from the 1968 movie "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" can't appear in a British parade because it's not roadworthy, local officials say.

420 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:20:29pm

re: #411 experiencedtraveller

The Glory Hole at the Somme.

Seems the right fit.

421 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:20:30pm

re: #376 Gang of One

Not to split hairs [or fibers] but most people understand "kosher" as a word for acceptable food. This is true, however, it applies to anything that the law finds acceptable. Treif only applies to comestibles. Anything else deemed unacceptable in law is called "pusul".

/Yeshiva bucher/mishneh student mode off.
//Recall that from my seventh grade rebbe.

"Treif" has a very specific meaning in halachah. It describes an animal that was slaughtered kosher but later, on inspection, was discovered to have a defect that rendered it not kosher.

Animals that are killed by non-kosher methods (stunning) are called "nivul"

Meat that is cooked together with dairy is "pusul"

422 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:20:42pm

re: #401 RightOnTheLeftCoast

True... but driving is a privilege, not a right...
No state (at least, not yet...) forces you to buy a car. They are proposing to force you to buy health insurance.

I understand your point, but it seems like a distinction without a difference.

Practically speaking, people need cars as much as they need health insurance ... That's why a large portion of the "uninsured" are young people in good health....they choose not to have health insurance because of the expense and most drive cars.

423 jcbunga  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:20:56pm

It has to have been around longer than 6,000 years. I think the Monty Python World Hide and Seek Record was 6,500.

424 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:20:57pm

re: #405 Adrenalyn

you know, to be honest, I know nothing of Mitt
MAYBE he could counter it but he's got a very cocky media on his hands now - look at what they done Vern, with that 0bama feller

Bush never tried countering all the shit the media dumped on him
I'd sure wish him the best if he were elected

then again, if Alec Baldwin ran, would/could "we" use his "fat pig daughter" tape against him ?

If you admit you know nothing of Mitt, why are so certain he can't be elected? And what in the world does Alec Baldwin's rant have to do with anything?

425 yochanan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:21:53pm

re: #398 Alouette

as i understand it if they were to keep kosher not a problem one way or the other but Shabbat is only for Jews.

and then there is the question of those gentiles who fellow the 7 laws of noah.

426 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:21:54pm

That yogurt/popsicle thing is from a tv show.

sorry.

427 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:21:58pm

re: #385 lawhawk

That's a high Bar to Rafeli.

And I also have no problem with fundamentalist Christensen.

428 kansas  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:22:26pm

re: #405 Adrenalyn

then again, if Alec Baldwin ran, would/could "we" use his "fat pig daughter" tape against him ?

He's a Democrat. That couldn't be used against him. It would be used in support of him.

429 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:22:45pm

re: #410 Ben Hur

People are updinging this?

You notice I stayed away from #402.

430 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:23:01pm

re: #373 Occasional Reader

I did not read her post that way, at all. Rather, she was pointing out the absurdity of the Phelps crowd justifying their rabid hatred based on one not-terribly-clear biblical passage, when they could just as well come up with equally stupid hate campaigns based on others.

The Phelps cult is not a church, and arguably not even Christian. They are a gang of attention whores whose primary goal is to get themselves noticed, by any means possible. They care about Christ like PETA cares about animals.

431 NonNativeTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:23:03pm

re: #398 Alouette

Gentiles were never obligated in the laws of kashrut, those laws were intended only for Jews. Gentiles are also not required to observe Shabbat.

Dennis Prager points this out quite often about shell fish be
an abomination to the Jews, not applicable to the non-Jews.
I think I am remembering correctly.

432 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:23:12pm

re: #412 kansas

I think I was happier when I didn't know Republicans were such idiots.

Idiots are idiots. And they come in all colors, flavors, and political persuasions. It's just some people only seem to point out the conservative idiots.

433 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:23:28pm

re: #419 FurryOldGuyJeans

'Chitty Chitty Bang Bang' banned
Published: July 8, 2009 at 1:00 PM

They suck. I saw Chitty Chitty Bang Bang in the London New Year's Day Parade in 2002, shortly before the show opened. It was the best thing in the parade (other than my daughter, who was playing clarinet with her school's marching band).

434 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:23:32pm

re: #420 Ben Hur

Seems the right fit.


Hopa!

Comment 420, Boyeeeeeee!

435 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:23:33pm

re: #363 yochanan

INFIDEL would be muslim

Do they have a freakin' exclusive on it?

//////

436 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:23:50pm

re: #419 FurryOldGuyJeans

'Chitty Chitty Bang Bang' banned
Published: July 8, 2009 at 1:00 PM

There is stupid, and then there is Government stupid. (Which is kind of like industrial strength stupid.)

437 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:23:53pm
438 kansas  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:24:05pm

re: #432 Nevergiveup

Idiots are idiots. And they come in all colors, flavors, and political persuasions. It's just some people only seem to point out the conservative idiots.

Point taken. Thanks. I was getting beat down.

439 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:24:21pm

re: #421 Alouette

Animals that are killed by non-kosher methods (stunning)

So it's not kosher if the animal was killed using a phaser... got it.

440 yochanan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:24:32pm

re: #418 Gang of One

it refers to the lungs some adheisions aren't kosher and some are glatt refers to a lung that is smooth thus no doubt as to it's being kosher or not.

441 Gang of One  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:24:34pm

re: #421 Alouette

"Treif" has a very specific meaning in halachah. It describes an animal that was slaughtered kosher but later, on inspection, was discovered to have a defect that rendered it not kosher.

Animals that are killed by non-kosher methods (stunning) are called "nivul"

Meat that is cooked together with dairy is "pusul"

I did not know this. Did not get too far in my yeshiva studies. Thank you.

442 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:24:51pm

re: #402 Ben Hur

Just because I enjoy yogurt in my ass and a popsicle in my mouth doesn't mean that Phelps is a Christian.

That wouldn't be chocolate yogurt and patriotic colored popsicles now, would it?

443 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:24:54pm
444 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:24:57pm

re: #427 Occasional Reader

And I also have no problem with fundamentalist Christensen.

You have quite the Gal to show yourself here....

445 VegasRick  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:24:59pm

re: #432 Nevergiveup

Idiots are idiots. And they come in all colors, flavors, and political persuasions. It's just some people only seem to point out the conservative idiots.

Is KT here? (don't know why that comment made me think of him)

446 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:25:06pm

re: #438 kansas

Point taken. Thanks. I was getting beat down.

Getting beat down is what life is for. Do what I do.
Beat it back.

447 doppelganglander  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:25:13pm

re: #434 Ben Hur

Hopa!

Comment 420, Boyeeeeeee!

And you got it at 4:20 Eastern time. Well played, sir.

448 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:25:13pm

Brit's sore throat calls land him in jail
Published: July 8, 2009 at 11:54 AM

FIRMLEY, England, July 8 (UPI) -- A British judge sentenced a 76-year-old man to jail for calling for an ambulance more than 40 times to complain about a sore throat.

449 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:25:13pm

re: #430 Alouette

The Phelps cult is not a church, and arguably not even Christian. They are a gang of attention whores whose primary goal is to get themselves noticed, by any means possible. They care about Christ like PETA cares about animals.

"No True Scotsman" repost in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ...

450 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:25:54pm

re: #439 Occasional Reader

So it's not kosher if the animal was killed using a phaser... got it.

Lights sabers are also not kosher.

451 Buster  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:26:04pm

re: #197 HoosierHoops

So it does say something in the Bible about 3 piece polyester Suits...
I knew it. I'm with God on this one...

I think it was actually Leisure Suits with contrasting stitching.

452 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:26:07pm

re: #434 Ben Hur

Hopa!

Comment 420, Boyeeeeeee!

Smoke it if you got it!

453 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:26:49pm

Fayyad urges UN to press Israel on fence

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

Why don't ya start fighting your own fights, instead of running to mommy.

454 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:26:52pm

Government not being stupid story:

(Told to me by my father, so it is probably at least partially inflated, because he tells fish stories.)

They had a real problem in Anchorage with bums freezing to death, but nobody had the money to build enough shelter space for them all. You see, a shelter is a residence, and must come up to code for such things, and that is expensive.

The government and one of the charities up there came to an agreement that the charity could build a heated warehouse for the purpose of warehousing people.

If governments want to, they can be not stupid.

455 Gang of One  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:27:01pm

re: #439 Occasional Reader

So it's not kosher if the animal was killed using a phaser... got it.

Then there wouldn't really be anything left, now would there?

456 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:27:06pm

re: #449 OldLineTexan

"No True Scotsman" repost in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ...

Are you saying that the Phelps gang is a church just because they call themselves one?

457 Adrenalyn  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:27:10pm

re: #412 kansas

I think I was happier when I didn't know Republicans were such idiots.

prophetic !

a thousand updings for you

458 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:27:19pm

re: #12 witwwats

I guess we're all lucky that God is so small that Science can always be right and Religion always wrong.

Sorry, I don't agree.

You don't agree with your own asinine statement?

459 Gang of One  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:27:30pm

re: #440 yochanan

it refers to the lungs some adheisions aren't kosher and some are glatt refers to a lung that is smooth thus no doubt as to it's being kosher or not.

Ahh. OK. Thank you.

460 funky chicken  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:28:17pm

re: #394 Occasional Reader

(Timberlands suck, by the way. The threw away their quality control once they realized people would buy them anyway, because they had become "ghetto fabulous".)

They're made in China for $2 a pair just like the crap shoes at K Mart. For some reason an awful lot of folks are still willing to pay over $100 a pair for them.

461 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:28:26pm

Cancer patient's luck -- a big lottery win
Published: July 7, 2009 at 11:32 PM

SWINDON, England, July 7 (UPI) -- A British cancer patient says the worst time in her life ended in a burst of luck when she was declared cancer-free and then won a big lottery jackpot.

462 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:28:26pm

re: #447 doppelganglander

And you got it at 4:20 Eastern time. Well played, sir.


GTFOH!

And I'm on my way to buy!

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!

463 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:28:28pm

re: #453 Nevergiveup

Fayyad urges UN to press Israel on fence

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

Why don't ya start fighting your own fights, instead of running to mommy.

UN ran to do Fayyad's bidding.

464 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:28:29pm

re: #449 OldLineTexan

"No True Scotsman" repost in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ...

You don't know how close I came to posting exactly the same thing!

465 Nevergiveup  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:28:41pm

Obama: It's 'important' to talk to Iran, N. Korea

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

I go to my father's grave and talk to him sometimes, and it works about as well?

466 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:28:49pm

re: #437 buzzsawmonkey

You are being a drama queen when you speak of my "personal dislike of you." You are an occasionally amusing poster, if often dead wrong.

Rereading your Phelps post, I will concede that that particular post was aimed merely at Phelps--but it was the capstone to a larger sniggerfest that you have been building throughout the thread. If that concession serves you as an "apology," well and good, for it is all you will get; the quote from the other site with which you adorned your post is still stupid--so much so that I am surprised you are amused by it.

This an an excellent example of the non-apology form of apology, in that you've 'apologised' for your reading incomprehension, and for calling me an asshole, by calling me a drama queen.

And that's all the further attention, or comment, you'll be getting from me in this thread.

467 Gang of One  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:29:18pm

re: #450 Alouette

Lights sabers are also not kosher.

But they make the cleanest, cauterized cut, don't they?

468 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:29:20pm

re: #443 buzzsawmonkey

Thanks for the correction. But I was close enough for government work, as they say.

Not this government. They meassure in the trillions...

469 Adrenalyn  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:29:58pm

re: #424 doppelganglander

If you admit you know nothing of Mitt, why are so certain he can't be elected? And what in the world does Alec Baldwin's rant have to do with anything?

that the media WILL use Mormon's more kooky ism's against him
whether he has many wives or aspirations of a planet

and that Alec Baldwin by the same example will have a hard time ever running because that tape will forever be used against him

both have something that will successfully be used against them
in my opinion, at least

470 Rancher  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:30:33pm

No Republican can win an election because the media will crucify whoever the GOP puts forward. Therefore the GOP must nominate a liberal Democrat to run on the Republican ticket.

471 RightOnTheLeftCoast  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:31:07pm

re: #422 eschew_obfuscation

I understand your point, but it seems like a distinction without a difference.

Practically speaking, people need cars as much as they need health insurance ... That's why a large portion of the "uninsured" are young people in good health....they choose not to have health insurance because of the expense and most drive cars.

The need for a car depends largely on where you live and work. I know many people in places like Chicago, New York, and London who haven't owned a car in many years. Insisting that a Chicagoan buy a car (probably a Government Motors product...) to support the economy despite his preference to go carless is wrong.
The proposal to require people to buy insurance that meets the official government coverage level is no different... if I want to get only "catastrophic coverage" insurance and pay the routine and periodic stuff out of pocket, that should be my choice. This plan would force me to get "comprehensive coverage".

472 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:31:07pm

Man finds glass in his shaving cut
Published: July 7, 2009 at 7:47 PM

BOLTON, England, July 7 (UPI) -- A British man says he cut himself shaving and discovered what he had believed was a cyst was a shard from a windshield.

Thomas Entwistle of Asltey Bridge, Bolton, England, told The Daily Telegraph he was thrown through the windshield of a Ford Cortina about 30 years ago, but didn't associate the accident with the small lump on his chin.

473 debutaunt  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:31:34pm

re: #470 Rancher

No Republican can win an election because the media will crucify whoever the GOP puts forward. Therefore the GOP must nominate a liberal Democrat to run on the Republican ticket.

We just did that.

474 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:32:07pm
475 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:32:10pm

re: #455 Gang of One

Then there wouldn't really be anything left, now would there?

Using a ST TOS phaser (set on full), no.

Now, we get to the terribly important topic of the apparent degeneration in phaser technology during the life of the Federation.

The ST TOS phasers were pretty badass weapons. They could completely vaporize a human-sized target (although somehow without creating any sort of explosion of hot gas... but never mind); could be fired in a wide field to stun several dozen attackers; etc. Sure, they had no sights or trigger guard, but hey.

Then, we get to ST TNG... and the phasers are utter crap. They fire little pulses that seem to travel at abou 80 mph, such that the target actually has time to duck. They fire these things at a semi-auto rate of fire. No wide-field nuthin'. A good SMG would be a far more effective weapon.

Personally, I think some future Democrats enacted some kind of "Assault Weapon Phaser Ban" round about 2250.

476 Kenneth  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:32:14pm

re: #465 Nevergiveup

What Obama fails to understand is that it is also important to say the right things. Talk for talk sake is counterproductive & dangerous .

477 jvic  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:33:50pm

re: #332 iceweasel

Like knows like, perhaps? :)

I wouldn't have guessed. But I'm sporadically perceptive (which is more dangerous than being unperceptive).

Btw, where is this blog of which you have spoken but to which you have not linked?

478 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:34:13pm

Police like scarecrow, not joke radar gun
Published: July 7, 2009 at 7:40 PM

BRANCASTER, England, July 7 (UPI) -- Police in eastern England say a police officer scarecrow wielding a soft drink bottle instead of a radar gun sent the wrong message to drivers.

Inspector Dave Buckley of the Norfolk Police said the problem was not the 7-foot police scarecrow greeting motorists on the outskirts of Brancaster, The Daily Telegraph reported. In fact, the scarecrow was returned to the village after a policewoman removed it.

But he said radar guns are not a laughing matter.

479 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:34:16pm

re: #390 iceweasel

I have a problem with Fred Phelps. Not Christians.

I'd bet every Christian who isn't part of his 'church' would agree that he's the antithesis of Christian.

Phelps and his "congregation" (all two of 'em), are total scum.

I agree he is the antithesis of what I think of as "Christian". But there are some here who will say that we who argue that are doing some sort of "no true scotsman" argument.

So I'll leave it at - Phelps and his crew are evil, no doubt about it in my mind.

480 Kenneth  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:34:39pm

re: #474 buzzsawmonkey
#466 iceweasel

Knock if off you two...

Youtube Video
481 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:35:06pm

re: #441 Gang of One

I did not know this. Did not get too far in my yeshiva studies. Thank you.

Cursing and swearing is called "nivul peh" (non-kosher mouth)

482 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:35:10pm

re: #475 Occasional Reader


Dude?

483 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:35:27pm

re: #471 RightOnTheLeftCoast

The need for a car depends largely on where you live and work. I know many people in places like Chicago, New York, and London who haven't owned a car in many years. Insisting that a Chicagoan buy a car (probably a Government Motors product...) to support the economy despite his preference to go carless is wrong.
The proposal to require people to buy insurance that meets the official government coverage level is no different... if I want to get only "catastrophic coverage" insurance and pay the routine and periodic stuff out of pocket, that should be my choice. This plan would force me to get "comprehensive coverage".

I agree on the forced part of this..... it shouldn't be forced....it's a form of a tax effected by spreading the cost of health care to healthy people who don't often need it..... more spreading of the wealth.

484 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:36:04pm

To return to Ms. Sylvia Tenney Allen for a moment: She was appointed to finish the term of the deceased State Senator Jake Flake. Rules required that the replacement come from the same thinly populated county as the deceased. Then, as an incumbent, she was elected to the seat. After a brief look, I see that I like a lot of what she has done in office. However, I think it is up to the party to do some candidate development. She can learn that, although she may hold certain beliefs to be true, they do not make good political arguments for mining uranium. There are good arguments for it, and they should be used because of the importance of the issue.

485 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:36:09pm
486 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:36:24pm

re: #481 Alouette

Cursing and swearing is called "nivul peh" (non-kosher mouth)

You can also get some Nivul Peh around the Borsa and Tel Baruch.

HAHAHHaHHAHAHAHAHAH!

487 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:36:29pm

re: #477 jvic

I wouldn't have guessed. But I'm sporadically perceptive (which is more dangerous than being unperceptive).

Btw, where is this blog of which you have spoken but to which you have not linked?

Yes, Catholic school girl here.

I was planning on letting you in on that, just not everyone, for reasons which this thread makes obvious.

(bookmarked your blog, btw.) :)

488 Kenneth  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:36:38pm

re: #479 reine.de.tout

There is a point at which the "no true Scotsman" argument is applicable. Phelps is one. Not everybody is what they say they are just because they say they are.

489 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:37:12pm

Man sues Kimberly-Clark over bad-breath device
Wed Jul 8, 2009 10:40am EDT

BOSTON (Reuters) - A Boston-area inventor sued Kimberly-Clark Corp on Tuesday, contending that the maker of Kleenex tissues and Huggies diapers had violated his patent for a device to detect bad breath.

The man, Marv Freadman of Chelsea, Massachusetts, filed a lawsuit in Boston federal court, saying that the Dallas-based consumer products maker is developing a "visual indicating device for bad breath."

490 Kenneth  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:37:21pm

re: #485 buzzsawmonkey

Group hug?

491 WinterCat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:37:46pm

re: #470 Rancher

No Republican can win an election because the media will crucify whoever the GOP puts forward. Therefore the GOP must nominate a liberal Democrat to run on the Republican ticket.

I don't think that is true. But it is true that the GOP has got to show that it is made up of more than fundamental religious people. It must appeal to people in the middle. It currently has a serious image problem. People like Sen. Allen above don't help. They become the poster children for why independents should not vote for republicans. The GOP has got to go back to its financial conservative roots and drop all this governing of other people's morality. Or we are doomed to be led by the democrats straight into financial ruin.

492 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:37:54pm

re: #482 Ben Hur

Dude?

Yes? Do you have something to contribute to this very important discussion of Star Trek weaponology?

493 kansas  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:37:56pm

re: #166 iceweasel

Exactly, it's like wanting to take Leviticus serious when it comes to the prohibition on homosexuality, but ignoring the prohibitions on shellfish and synthetic fibers.

I didn't see the prohibition on polyester in the Bible, but then I don't read it much.

494 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:38:04pm

re: #406 jvic

Goyjin.

Great, now I'm Japanese, too.

/

495 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:38:21pm

re: #480 Kenneth

I knew that was going to be the Barney song!

No worries, there won't be any fighting. Mostly because I meant what I said when I said I'd ignore all further comment.

496 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:38:22pm

re: #487 iceweasel

Yes, Catholic school girl here.

Link, please (with photo).

///

497 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:38:22pm

re: #314 Occasional Reader

Do they ever have to go up against someone who would effectively fight back?

I wonder how tough they'd be then.

During Gulf War I some of them took on a US Marine - female type - who was wearing a tee shirt while unloading a truck. She cleaned their clock, but CENTCOM shipped her out on the next plane.

498 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:39:06pm

re: #485 buzzsawmonkey

Ain't nobody fightin' here.

How about "squabbling"?

/

499 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:39:23pm

U.S. chicken feet are being booted out of China
Wed Jul 8, 2009 12:40pm EDT
By Bob Burgdorfer

CHICAGO (Reuters) - China and the United States are kicking up a trade war over chicken in which Beijing effectively has given the boot to millions of dollars worth of U.S. chicken, about half of which is chicken feet.

This action comes as Congress begins deliberating the 2010 federal budget for agriculture, which could extend a U.S. ban on imports of Chinese chicken products sparked by food safety concerns.

The ban has angered the Chinese and now, according to U.S. exporters, Beijing has halted imports of U.S. chicken, although officially China is saying imports are not blocked.

China is a huge market for U.S. chicken feet, commonly called paws, and bought 421,000 tons, or $280 million worth, in 2008, according to the USA Poultry and Egg Export Council, a trade group.

500 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:39:57pm

re: #470 Rancher

No Republican can win an election because the media will crucify whoever the GOP puts forward. Therefore the GOP must nominate a liberal Democrat to run on the Republican ticket.

Wasn't that tried back in '08?

501 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:40:14pm

re: #491 WinterCat

I don't think that is true. But it is true that the GOP has got to show that it is made up of more than fundamental religious people. It must appeal to people in the middle. It currently has a serious image problem. People like Sen. Allen above don't help. They become the poster children for why independents should not vote for republicans. The GOP has got to go back to its financial conservative roots and drop all this governing of other people's morality. Or we are doomed to be led by the democrats straight into financial ruin.

It sounds good, until you realize that the GOP ran John McCain and LOST.

502 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:40:18pm

re: #497 Son of the Black Dog

During Gulf War I some of them took on a US Marine - female type - who was wearing a tee shirt while unloading a truck. She cleaned their clock, but CENTCOM shipped her out on the next plane.

Really?

Boo-yah! They should have given her a frickkin' medal.

503 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:40:43pm

re: #486 Ben Hur

You can also get some Nivul Peh around the Borsa and Tel Baruch.

HAHAHHaHHAHAHAHAHAH!

C'mon!

One of my best!

NO ONE got it?

504 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:41:01pm

re: #498 OldLineTexan

How about "squabbling"?

/

LOL (oh heaven's, flouncing back on in in 5,4,3,2...)

505 Gang of One  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:41:02pm

FOGJ, while the news items you are posting/linking to are interesting, shouldn't they be better posted in the Links at the top of the page?
/Just sayin'

506 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:41:04pm
507 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:41:18pm

re: #503 Ben Hur

C'mon!

One of my best!

NO ONE got it?

I'm guessing I got it, yes. I chuckled.

508 The Left  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:41:21pm

BBL. Have a great day, all.
cheers, ice

509 avanti  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:41:42pm

re: #408 Honorary Yooper

These problems are not just the domain of the right. The left is just as afflicted.

Again, I never stated that the Dems did not have a share of kooks, but the Democrats fate is not so closely tied with the socially consecutive, religious right.
They don't have those issues as part of the party platform, nor are so many of it's leaders creationists. I can't think of any off my head.

510 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:41:50pm

Chimps' break for lunch forces public from UK zoo
Mon Jul 6, 2009 3:39pm EDT

LONDON (Reuters) - Chester Zoo, Britain's most popular wildlife attraction, was evacuated on Sunday after 30 chimpanzees escaped from their enclosure.

The animals made their escape at lunchtime and found their way into a keeper area where their food is normally prepared.

Visitors were asked to leave the 110-acre zoo as keepers rounded up the chimps.

"We had an army of chimps eating their way through the keeper's kitchen and the decision was taken, quite rightly, to evacuate," a spokeswoman said.

511 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:41:53pm

re: #506 buzzsawmonkey

No, thanks--squab always reminds me of New York pigeons.

So this puts a capon your squab-bling with iceweasel?

512 KenJen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:42:01pm

re: #470 Rancher

No Republican can win an election because the media will crucify whoever the GOP puts forward. Therefore the GOP must nominate a liberal Democrat to run on the Republican ticket.

Here is one Repulican. I'm definetly looking forward to not voting for. Rand Paul will let us know by Aug 21st if he's in the race.

513 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:42:35pm

re: #507 Occasional Reader

I'm guessing I got it, yes. I chuckled.


Thanks.

/debbie downer music.

514 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:43:14pm
515 Gang of One  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:43:14pm

re: #509 avanti

Again, I never stated that the Dems did not have a share of kooks, but the Democrats fate is not so closely tied with the socially consecutive, religious right.
They don't have those issues as part of the party platform, nor are so many of it's leaders creationists. I can't think of any off my head.

You mean socially conservative?

516 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:43:47pm

re: #456 Alouette

Are you saying that the Phelps gang is a church just because they call themselves one?

I am saying that is an argument you can find here, on the ground, free for the taking.

517 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:43:49pm
518 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:44:04pm

re: #513 Ben Hur

Thanks.

/debbie downer music.

Aural secks is all fun and games until somebody gets cavities, mister.

519 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:44:12pm

re: #504 Walter L. Newton

LOL (oh heaven's, flouncing back on in in 5,4,3,2...)

I'm a real fucker sometimes.

520 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:45:10pm

re: #519 OldLineTexan

I'm a real fucker sometimes.

We are all fuckers together.

521 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:45:38pm

Later.

522 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:46:15pm

re: #520 Walter L. Newton

We are all fuckers together.

Careful you two..... Phelps might come after you!

523 Ben Hur  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:46:19pm

re: #521 Occasional Reader

Later.


Much.

524 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:47:26pm

re: #501 OldLineTexan

It sounds good, until you realize that the GOP ran John McCain and LOST.

A blast from the past (2000):

VOTE FOR BUSH

There was just one problem with this vast-left-wing-conspiracy stuff: It's total crap. Polls show that in a general election, McCain would actually defeat Al Gore, while Gore would defeat Bush. If Republicans were interested in picking a winner, they should have voted for McCain. But just as in '96, the last thing Republicans are interested in is a winner. South Carolina's social conservatives -- Shiite Republicans, as the New York Post's Rod Dreher calls them -- turned out in force on Saturday and voted for Bush, handing Bush a 13-percentage-point victory -- impressive, sure, but not so large as McCain's 19-point win in New Hampshire.

525 avanti  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:48:17pm

re: #515 Gang of One

You mean socially conservative?

When you see that type of error, it means I went one word down in the spell checker list. Yes, conservative.

526 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:48:29pm

re: #520 Walter L. Newton

We are all fuckers together.

I abstain, courteously.

527 WinterCat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:48:39pm

re: #501 OldLineTexan

It sounds good, until you realize that the GOP ran John McCain and LOST.

Despite his extremely honorable service to this country McCain never had a chance against Obama. John McCain was a very old man running against a very young man. It was hard to look at him and not see someone who was on his last go around. Add that to the country being tired of Bush and it is not surprising to see that he lost.

528 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:49:26pm

re: #515 Gang of One

You mean socially conservative?

No, socially consecutive ... they always walk in a straight line, like ducklings.

/

529 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:49:31pm

re: #527 WinterCat

Despite his extremely honorable service to this country McCain never had a chance against Obama. John McCain was a very old man running against a very young man. It was hard to look at him and not see someone who was on his last go around. Add that to the country being tired of Bush and it is not surprising to see that he lost.

Nearly no one had a chance against Obama and the general malaise the GOP had created the previous 8 years.

530 funky chicken  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:49:54pm

re: #524 FurryOldGuyJeans

Meh. I think McCain would have crushed Gore in 2000, and would have done much better in terms of controlling the spending orgy that came out of congress for most of Bush's time in office.

water under the bridge now, of course.

531 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:50:29pm

re: #522 eschew_obfuscation

Careful you two..... Phelps might come after you!

I relish the idea of having that much fun.

532 WinterCat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:51:01pm

re: #529 FurryOldGuyJeans

Nearly no one had a chance against Obama and the general malaise the GOP had created the previous 8 years.

I agree. But his age was also a factor. That is a certainty. Even Obama capitalized on it. I thought it was disgraceful, but he did it.

533 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:51:08pm

re: #527 WinterCat

Despite his extremely honorable service to this country McCain never had a chance against Obama. John McCain was a very old man running against a very young man. It was hard to look at him and not see someone who was on his last go around. Add that to the country being tired of Bush and it is not surprising to see that he lost.

He was as middle as you can get.

534 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:51:41pm

re: #419 FurryOldGuyJeans

'Chitty Chitty Bang Bang' banned
Published: July 8, 2009 at 1:00 PM

Can't they just fly it, then?

535 avanti  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:51:52pm

re: #527 WinterCat

Despite his extremely honorable service to this country McCain never had a chance against Obama. John McCain was a very old man running against a very young man. It was hard to look at him and not see someone who was on his last go around. Add that to the country being tired of Bush and it is not surprising to see that he lost.

Simple summation and very close to correct in my opinion. Also Obama tied him to the the unpopular Bush, and Sarah may have cost him votes with the left and middle while firing up the base.

536 WinterCat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:51:52pm

re: #533 OldLineTexan

He was as middle as you can get.

So are you saying that someone who is in the middle can't win?

537 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:52:07pm

re: #524 FurryOldGuyJeans

Polls are crap, IMO.

Votes count (sometimes), not "what-ifs".

538 poteen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:52:26pm

re: #484 wrenchwench

To return to Ms. Sylvia Tenney Allen for a moment: She was appointed to finish the term of the deceased State Senator Jake Flake. Rules required that the replacement come from the same thinly populated county as the deceased. Then, as an incumbent, she was elected to the seat. After a brief look, I see that I like a lot of what she has done in office. However, I think it is up to the party to do some candidate development. She can learn that, although she may hold certain beliefs to be true, they do not make good political arguments for mining uranium. There are good arguments for it, and they should be used because of the importance of the issue.

In the clip she did exactly that. The 6000 yr remark was used to bolster her argument for uranium mining, not preach creationism.. If she said 50,000 yrs. her science would still be wrong but her point would be the same. In the clip her intent is clear.

539 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:52:32pm

re: #532 WinterCat

I agree. But his age was also a factor. That is a certainty. Even Obama capitalized on it. I thought it was disgraceful, but he did it.

It sure didn't help having McCain being for all purposes an unpaid campaign worker for Our Man Obama.

540 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:52:48pm

re: #536 WinterCat

So are you saying that someone who is in the middle can't win?

No, I am saying that someone as centrist as ever ran on the Republican ticket LOST.

541 WinterCat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:53:31pm

re: #535 avanti

Simple summation and very close to correct in my opinion. Also Obama tied him to the the unpopular Bush, and Sarah may have cost him votes with the left and middle while firing up the base.

I am not really sure that Sarah cost him as many votes as you may think. And for each one she cost him, I think he gained two.

542 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:53:52pm

re: #537 OldLineTexan

Polls are crap, IMO.

Votes count (sometimes), not "what-ifs".

I agree wholeheartedly about the usefulness of polls, but the irony of the polls in mid 2000 contrasted with the actual results is too hard to pass up not mentioning.

543 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:54:27pm

re: #383 doppelganglander

Nope--our pastor preaches that we need to get out of "comfort zones" and reach to people and love and serve them--as Jesus would. This means all people--including the ones we normally would shun--like homosexuals. Many have done it and it is amazing to see the reactions of some people to a Christian that does not fit the media stereotype.

544 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:54:36pm

re: #496 Occasional Reader

Link, please (with photo).

///

Great, now OR's Japanese.

/

545 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:55:32pm

re: #534 SixDegrees

Can't they just fly it, then?

Nope because it really wasn't our fine four-fendered friend.

546 poteen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:56:44pm

re: #501 OldLineTexan

It sounds good, until you realize that the GOP ran John McCain and LOST.

FDR and JFK together running as Republicans would have lost.

547 itellu3times  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:57:15pm

i don't remember uranium being mentioned in the bible

548 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:57:41pm

re: #540 OldLineTexan

No, I am saying that someone as centrist as ever ran on the Republican ticket LOST.

I'm not so sure he actually ran, at least for the entire campaign. At some point, he really slowed down.

549 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:58:09pm
550 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:58:15pm

re: #546 poteen

FDR and JFK together running as Republicans would have lost.

Heh, FDR isn't exactly the way to after the youth vote, and I think war-hero Kennedy would have beaten Obama.

But I get the point you're making.

It still does not change mine one whit.

551 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:58:24pm

re: #546 poteen

FDR and JFK together running as Republicans would have lost.

If they ran as members of the GOP, both would have been philandering cripples with serious health issues and questionable judgment.

552 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:58:51pm

re: #547 itellu3times

i don't remember uranium being mentioned in the bible

Not directly--see Sodom and Gomorrah.

553 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:59:13pm
554 WinterCat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:59:54pm

re: #546 poteen

FDR and JFK together running as Republicans would have lost.


There is some element of truth in this as humorous as it might be. I am pretty sure that is why Mitt Romney dropped out when he did. The handwriting was on the wall. Obama was going to get in. The media wanted it so bad they could hardly contain themselves. In fact, they didn't contain themselves.

555 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 1:59:58pm

re: #549 buzzsawmonkey

To be fair, it may not have been that the Republicans ran a centrist, but that they ran the centrist they did.

McCain ran a very bad campaign--bad graphics (with bad distribution); bad rhetoric/catchwords; bad strategy throughout.

It might not have helped the Republicans had they run someone else, merely because the country does tend to change parties after eight years of one--and the combination of Obama's youth, money, adulatory media (and yes, the race factor that was constantly exploited with a big fat wink that it wasn't) made him a tough candidate to beat.

In short, I wouldn't scrap the idea of a "centrist" on that score alone, but it would very much depend on the person.

The argument I am attempting (badly, apparently) to make is almost exactly that from the other direction ... running for the middle is no guarantee of a win.

556 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:00:18pm

re: #553 buzzsawmonkey

Huh?

Oh come now--all intelligent people know God nuked the places./

557 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:00:22pm

re: #549 buzzsawmonkey

To be fair, it may not have been that the Republicans ran a centrist, but that they ran the centrist they did.

McCain ran a very bad campaign--bad graphics (with bad distribution); bad rhetoric/catchwords; bad strategy throughout.

It might not have helped the Republicans had they run someone else, merely because the country does tend to change parties after eight years of one--and the combination of Obama's youth, money, adulatory media (and yes, the race factor that was constantly exploited with a big fat wink that it wasn't) made him a tough candidate to beat.

In short, I wouldn't scrap the idea of a "centrist" on that score alone, but it would very much depend on the person.

Our Man Obama was the proverbial ham sandwich which was impossible to not get elected.

558 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:00:29pm
559 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:00:34pm

re: #553 buzzsawmonkey

Huh?

God nuked them from orbit ... it was the only way to be sure.

/

560 jvic  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:01:27pm

re: #487 iceweasel

Yes, Catholic school girl here.

I was planning on letting you in on that, just not everyone, for reasons which this thread makes obvious.

You're considerate. Afaic I have every right to make a scene when somebody's oversensitivity offends me. ;-)

(bookmarked your blog, btw.) :)

Thx. My blog--it's really an online journal or commonplace book--has moderated comments. If you submit your link there, I won't publish it here; up to you, of course. Since you "love Pharyngula"--I concede his science seems sound--, I imagine the tone of your blog is a bit different from the tone here...

Later, all.

561 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:01:29pm

re: #538 poteen

In the clip she did exactly that. The 6000 yr remark was used to bolster her argument for uranium mining, not preach creationism.. If she said 50,000 yrs. her science would still be wrong but her point would be the same. In the clip her intent is clear.

What I was trying to say is that the argument she used, [paraphrased] "we've gotten along for 6,000 years without environmental regulations," is a lousy argument, ie: it is not going to convince anyone. She could make a better argument.

562 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:01:36pm
563 WinterCat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:02:25pm

re: #555 OldLineTexan

The argument I am attempting (badly, apparently) to make is almost exactly that from the other direction ... running for the middle is no guarantee of a win.

There really isn't any guarantee of winning, unless you are the leader of Iran. But I believe that if the GOP lurches to the far right in an attempt to draw in the independent voters, it is over for the next 40 years. Meanwhile, we will go broke and stay broke. And that will just be the good news.

564 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:02:50pm

re: #559 OldLineTexan

God nuked them from orbit ... it was the only way to be sure.

/

Maybe he used these. Can we really be sure?

565 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:03:17pm

re: #562 buzzsawmonkey

Where on earth do you find these "intelligent people"--at an Erich von Daniken convention?

Where else? Lenny Nimoy did an "In Search of..." on it, too./

566 poteen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:03:46pm

re: #550 OldLineTexan

Agreed.
But I think the winning Rep. ticket will end up a pro-choice Palin / Steele hybrid of some kind.
Obama set the mold. All style no substance, just get in power and thats a sad commentary on the U.S. electorate, that it's so obvious.

567 poteen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:04:50pm

re: #551 calcajun

If they ran as members of the GOP, both would have been philandering cripples with serious health issues and questionable judgment.

Sure winners in any other race.

568 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:05:25pm

Authorities remove 42 tons of trash from property
Jul 6, 9:00 PM (ET)

MASTIC BEACH, N.Y. (AP) - A father and son are facing almost $20,000 in fees and fines after New York authorities said they removed about 42 tons of trash from their property. Brookhaven Town officials said they took away tires, car parts, hoses and other trash - about 85,000 pounds in all - piled up on a residential lot in Mastic Beach on eastern Long Island.

569 mrshankly01  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:06:08pm

re: #568 FurryOldGuyJeans

sounds like my living room

570 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:06:27pm

re: #298 doppelganglander

You're trying to be kind, which is commendable. But most people pick up new bits of general knowledge long after our school days. Also, the Mormon church does not officially support creationism.

I would love to know how you believe the Book of Mormon and not subscribe to creationism.

571 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:07:09pm
572 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:08:48pm

re: #566 poteen

Agreed.
But I think the winning Rep. ticket will end up a pro-choice Palin / Steele hybrid of some kind.
Obama set the mold. All style no substance, just get in power and thats a sad commentary on the U.S. electorate, that it's so obvious.

The fact is that if the Repubs would break their thrall to the antiabortion, antigay, Biblical Literalist creationist socons, they would win hands down, because their foreign and economic policies are clearly superior.

But another fact is that a pivotal percentage of the US populace would rather undergo a porcupine enema than vote for someone who embraces the above listed views.

573 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:09:38pm

re: #568 FurryOldGuyJeans

Sounds like my teens' bedrooms.

574 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:09:48pm

The topic of this thread is proof positive that NO ONE needs
an education or an IQ above 40 to become a politican!
I thought Joe "the loose cannon" Biden proved it well also!
Sheesh!

575 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:09:51pm

re: #570 Dianna

I would love to know how you believe the Book of Mormon and not subscribe to creationism.

Which flavor? Uppercase "C" or lowercase "c"?

Not that I can help you with a BoM question, but the term "creationism" is getting pretty diluted.

I believe God created the Heavens and the Earth ... how is another question ... I do not believe that Genesis is a science text.

576 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:10:29pm

re: #571 buzzsawmonkey

Sometimes I think Leonard Nimoy let those famous ears go to his head.

Well where the hell else would they have gone?

577 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:10:42pm

re: #572 Salamantis

The fact is that if the Repubs would break their thrall to the antiabortion, antigay, Biblical Literalist creationist socons, they would win hands down, because their foreign and economic policies are clearly superior.

But another fact is that a pivotal percentage of the US populace would rather undergo a porcupine enema than vote for someone who embraces the above listed views.

That explains the "No Blood for Oil" protests.

/

578 poteen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:11:00pm

re: #561 wrenchwench

What I was trying to say is that the argument she used, [paraphrased] "we've gotten along for 6,000 years without environmental regulations," is a lousy argument, ie: it is not going to convince anyone. She could make a better argument.

The part about 'lets make some money' is a much better argument. Her opposition apparently is using enviro arguments so she must address them.

579 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:11:26pm

re: #574 reloadingisnotahobby

The topic of this thread is proof positive that NO ONE needs
an education or an IQ above 40 to become a politican!
I thought Joe "the loose cannon" Biden proved it well also!
Sheesh!

I just learned that the new Governor of Arizona has a high school (only) education.

580 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:11:27pm
581 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:13:37pm

re: #579 wrenchwench

He'll probably do fine!
Common sense cannot be found in a text book!
I see it all the time in my little podunk corner of Utah!
All to often............

582 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:15:03pm

re: #570 Dianna

I would love to know how you believe the Book of Mormon and not subscribe to creationism.

Can you believe in the Bible and not subscribe to creationism?

583 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:15:30pm

re: #578 poteen

The part about 'lets make some money' is a much better argument. Her opposition apparently is using enviro arguments so she must address them.

Yes, and she's been a good anti-environmentalist, which I appreciate. But I think she can turn their own arguments against them, like using the threat of global warming to argue for nukes. Using religion as a political argument just makes some people roll their eyes and/or giggle. Perhaps she's unaware that her belief is only shared by a few. This is where candidate development comes in.

584 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:15:47pm

re: #575 OldLineTexan

OLT!
Thanks for that!
I believe as you do!
Believing in a 6x 24 hour period is not a point of salvation!
IMHO!

585 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:15:53pm
586 itellu3times  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:16:17pm

re: #552 calcajun

Not directly--see Sodom and Gomorrah.

Let Phoenix really earn its name, hey?
/

587 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:16:55pm

re: #581 reloadingisnotahobby

He'll She'll probably do fine!
Common sense cannot be found in a text book!
I see it all the time in my little podunk corner of Utah!
All to often............

FTFY.

588 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:17:04pm

re: #585 buzzsawmonkey

Of course.

That's what I thought.

What is it about the Book of Mormon, then, that makes belief in creationism mandatory?

589 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:17:22pm

re: #575 OldLineTexan

Which flavor? Uppercase "C" or lowercase "c"?

Not that I can help you with a BoM question, but the term "creationism" is getting pretty diluted.

I believe God created the Heavens and the Earth ... how is another question ... I do not believe that Genesis is a science text.

YEC. And if Genesis isn't a science text (and it's not, pace Bishop Usher), BoM sure as hell isn't.

590 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:17:43pm

re: #582 SixDegrees

Can you believe in the Bible and not subscribe to creationism?

Easily.

591 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:18:32pm
592 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:18:49pm

re: #582 SixDegrees

I've heard so many arguement about this I cannot bring my self to say......
But , One is...If God created Adam a 30 something yearold man
Why can't he create an Earth 600 million years old!
I do not subscribe to this one!

593 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:19:31pm

re: #587 wrenchwench

Thanks !
That was so SEXIST of me !

594 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:20:52pm

re: #582 SixDegrees

Yes. Many do.

595 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:21:05pm

re: #593 reloadingisnotahobby

Thanks !
That was so SEXIST of me !

No problem. "He" was certainly the statistically more likely guess.

596 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:21:24pm

re: #589 Dianna

YEC. And if Genesis isn't a science text (and it's not, pace Bishop Usher), BoM sure as hell isn't.

Ah, YEC.

Not one of my personal problems.

But I am having trouble keeping up with the "c" word.

/

597 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:22:44pm

re: #589 Dianna

YEC. And if Genesis isn't a science text (and it's not, pace Bishop Usher), BoM sure as hell isn't.

I really meant I couldn't help with BoM. I have heard more about it in less detail than I can begin to explain, so I won't.

598 poteen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:22:46pm

re: #572 Salamantis

True. They don't have to do anything but ignore abortion and turn 'gayrights' to a civil rights issue.
Bold statements of religious belief mollify a small block of voters, pidgeonhole them, and put off larger groups.
I guess what I'm saying is the overriding concept is separation of church and state, but the pandering to these group's issues is causing the party to appear as though they are ignoring that concept.

599 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:23:06pm

Say!
Who wants to pop up to Kindle thread and hijack it
with ...bosoms,beer,guns and puns?

600 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:24:00pm

re: #588 SixDegrees

That's what I thought.

What is it about the Book of Mormon, then, that makes belief in creationism mandatory?

In sum? Two empty American continents (3 if you think of Central America as more than a convenient geographical designation).

I know the church is currently weaseling around this point, but...if you believe that book, you've got a problem.

601 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:25:04pm

re: #594 calcajun

Yes. Many do.

No doubt. Even the Vatican's official position on such things embraces both an ancient earth and universe, as well as evolution.

Among the many Mormons I've met, I've never any who pushed a young-earth viewpoint. I don't understand Dianna's statement that you can't accept the Book of Mormon and not be a creationist, while a literal reading of the Bible and it's explicit creation story doesn't impose the same requirement.

602 poteen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:25:27pm

The democrats want the power. They say what they need to get it.
The Republicans seem to think they need a hero. Not politically expedient

603 calcajun  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:25:57pm

re: #599 reloadingisnotahobby

Kindle? He owes me money! Let's go!

604 poteen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:27:08pm

re: #583 wrenchwench

Perhaps. She is only a state level office holder. Time will tell

605 charles_martel  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:27:19pm

Speaking as a Christian, I find her remarks embarrassing....

606 Sacred Plants  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:29:03pm

/My Grandma was an Arizona State Senator but all I got is this pile of nuclear waste

607 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:29:17pm

re: #600 Dianna

In sum? Two empty American continents (3 if you think of Central America as more than a convenient geographical designation).

I know the church is currently weaseling around this point, but...if you believe that book, you've got a problem.

Sorry, you lost me.

The Bible has it's own creation story - man, woman, six days, light and all that. Can you accept what it says and not be a creationist?

Like I said in an earlier post, I've never known a Mormon who believed in young-earth creationism. Hell, one of them was a biology professor who happily taught a very rigorous section on evolution, as fact.

608 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:30:24pm

re: #601 SixDegrees

No doubt. Even the Vatican's official position on such things embraces both an ancient earth and universe, as well as evolution.

Among the many Mormons I've met, I've never any who pushed a young-earth viewpoint. I don't understand Dianna's statement that you can't accept the Book of Mormon and not be a creationist, while a literal reading of the Bible and it's explicit creation story doesn't impose the same requirement.

You've got to be kidding.

I've read both, and the Genesis story is clearly a story. The LDS church regards the BoM as a true historical record.

There's a problem.

Most Mormons I've known manage not to ever confront that one, or the problem of Mormon archeology, or the problem of the "Book of Abraham", or a number of other things.

609 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:31:52pm

re: #499 FurryOldGuyJeans

U.S. chicken feet are being booted out of China
Wed Jul 8, 2009 12:40pm EDT
By Bob Burgdorfer

They cook 'em up real nice.

610 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:32:17pm

re: #608 Dianna

You've got to be kidding.

I've read both, and the Genesis story is clearly a story. The LDS church regards the BoM as a true historical record.

There's a problem.

Most Mormons I've known manage not to ever confront that one, or the problem of Mormon archeology, or the problem of the "Book of Abraham", or a number of other things.

How is one a story, and the other not?

611 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:33:27pm

re: #607 SixDegrees

Sorry, you lost me.

The Bible has it's own creation story - man, woman, six days, light and all that. Can you accept what it says and not be a creationist?

Like I said in an earlier post, I've never known a Mormon who believed in young-earth creationism. Hell, one of them was a biology professor who happily taught a very rigorous section on evolution, as fact.

I already answered, but I will also mention that I am not a believer.

The Bible's creation story is just that - a story. And the point of the creation story is the Fall; further, the clear point is that the god of Genesis "sees that it is very good".

612 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:34:42pm

re: #610 SixDegrees

How is one a story, and the other not?

If you can't read the Genesis account and see that it's poetry and metaphor, I can't help you.

613 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:35:04pm

re: #608 Dianna


Most Mormons I've known manage not to ever confront that one, or the problem of Mormon archeology, or the problem of the "Book of Abraham", or a number of other things.

Most Christians I know don't ever confront a six-day creation, a planet-wide flood, lifespans measured in multiple centuries or the genetic implications of an earth populated, then re-populated by close siblings.

614 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:36:30pm

re: #612 Dianna

If you can't read the Genesis account and see that it's poetry and metaphor, I can't help you.

My point isn't that there's metaphor in the Bible. It's that you're ignoring the possibility that there may be metaphor in the Book of Mormon, as well.

615 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:37:08pm

re: #613 SixDegrees

Most Christians I know don't ever confront a six-day creation, a planet-wide flood, lifespans measured in multiple centuries or the genetic implications of an earth populated, then re-populated by close siblings.

One, I'm not a Christian. Two, you'd have to ask someone who actually thinks the Bible is literal how they reconcile these things.

616 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:38:02pm

re: #614 SixDegrees

My point isn't that there's metaphor in the Bible. It's that you're ignoring the possibility that there may be metaphor in the Book of Mormon, as well.

You had best read the BoM then, and also the history of the LDS church.

617 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:38:18pm

re: #607 SixDegrees

Sorry, you lost me.

The Bible has it's own creation story - man, woman, six days, light and all that. Can you accept what it says and not be a creationist?

Like I said in an earlier post, I've never known a Mormon who believed in young-earth creationism. Hell, one of them was a biology professor who happily taught a very rigorous section on evolution, as fact.

re: #601 SixDegrees

IMHO, Mormons suffer from the same cognitive dissonances as many others. They don't think about what is contradictory, or they only do so at certain times, and then don't think of the other side, where they make their living.

Mormons also have a strong social/family connection that one cannot be a member of and question at the same time.

The issue of creationism in Mormonism is but a fraction of the absurdity of the bit about golden plates that nobody ever saw, or could understand if they did, except the one.

If they can believe that they can deal with anything;

//but I wonder about being President. //

618 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:39:26pm

re: #615 Dianna

One, I'm not a Christian. Two, you'd have to ask someone who actually thinks the Bible is literal how they reconcile these things.

What I'm asking is why you think one book is widely interpreted literally, while the other book is widely interpreted metaphorically. As I've said, a belief in young earth creationism doesn't seem to be held by any Mormons I've ever met. Is there some official church doctrine that demands such a belief?

619 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:39:29pm
Arizona State Senator: 'This Earth's Been Here 6,000 Years'

I know that's not true, because Helen Thomas is older than that.

620 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:41:22pm

re: #616 Dianna

You had best read the BoM then, and also the history of the LDS church.

Why? Is there some reason you can't simply explain your statement that an acceptance of the Book of Mormon demands a belief in creationism? It was a simple statement, and I'm asking a simple question: how do you support it?

621 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:42:20pm

re: #615 Dianna

One, I'm not a Christian. Two, you'd have to ask someone who actually thinks the Bible is literal how they reconcile these things.

So, do all Mormons think that the Book of Mormon is literal?

622 hous bin pharteen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:43:32pm

#162 Yasmick

Sarcasm? Moi? C'est lavie!
To me, it is 2009. July. It's seems to others, its 6031.
I have already died at least once, so I have a different view of religion.
Many people who know me in person thinks there is a reason I came back from being dead. It may be drive you all nuts. I but I was pretty good at that before.

623 Egregious Philbin  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:44:06pm

I live in AZ.

We just had a complete nutcase, Karen Johnson leave the senate, she was a troofer and on the board of a Scientologist front group and she was nuttier than a pecan orchard at harvest.

Now I hear this...This troglodyte is gonna hear from me.

Xenu wept.

624 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:44:25pm

re: #618 SixDegrees

What I'm asking is why you think one book is widely interpreted literally, while the other book is widely interpreted metaphorically. As I've said, a belief in young earth creationism doesn't seem to be held by any Mormons I've ever met. Is there some official church doctrine that demands such a belief?

Because the LDS position is that it is literal.

625 Adrenalyn  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:45:46pm

re: #381 WinterCat

In his capacity as Gov of Mass what legislation did Romney back that forwarded the creationist view?

please don't take offense at this but:

that has nothing to do with my point

my point is/has been
some elements of Mormonism, past & present
whether HE believes them or not
are going to be used as a nuclear weapon against him

now, maybe he can successfully deflect the criticism
sheesh, look at how much 0bama deflected
/oops, the media deflected
but he coulda
yeah, he woulda told us, if only the media let him

/sarcasm

626 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:48:27pm

re: #621 SixDegrees

So, do all Mormons think that the Book of Mormon is literal?

If they are Mormons, yes. That's the teaching. That's the position (though, as I said earlier, there is some positively fascinating weaseling going on). If one is a believing Mormon, you have no choice but to believe that Joseph Smith was guided to find a lost historical record recorded on golden plates which only he could read.

If they are "Mormons in name only", no.

It's also become very clear that the issue is glossed over more and more, and certainly isn't discussed with outsiders.

627 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:49:59pm

re: #561 wrenchwench

What I was trying to say is that the argument she used, [paraphrased] "we've gotten along for 6,000 years without environmental regulations," is a lousy argument, ie: it is not going to convince anyone. She could make a better argument.

And a lot of people hear about a 6000 year old earth and immediately tune out whatever comes next because the speaker is obviously not living in a reality-based world.

628 WinterCat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:51:41pm

re: #625 Adrenalyn

please don't take offense at this but:

that has nothing to do with my point

my point is/has been
some elements of Mormonism, past & present
whether HE believes them or not
are going to be used as a nuclear weapon against him

now, maybe he can successfully deflect the criticism
sheesh, look at how much 0bama deflected
/oops, the media deflected
but he coulda
yeah, he woulda told us, if only the media let him

/sarcasm

I am not offended at all. I just don't agree that he is unelectable. He won in Massachusetts -- a blue state if there ever was one. I have read a little bit about him and while dyed in the wool dems froth a the mouth at the mention of his name, he seems to be pretty clean when it comes to mixing politics and religion. Yes, anything that his opponents can grab on to will be exploited but they have no facts (that I know of) to sully him in this regard. I actually think that he will have as hard a time with fundamentalist Christians who think he has 10 wives hidden somewhere.

I could be wrong.

629 hous bin pharteen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:51:53pm

Why worry about the lenth of time when we had planet earth around?
Nothing exists long ago.
Nada.
Zip.
Then one day, there was a big explosion, and the earth, solar system, and the uviverse flew out.

It is called the big bang theory.
But for all we know, it could have just been The Big Fart.

630 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:55:08pm

re: #624 Dianna

Because the LDS position is that it is literal.

OK, finally, some progress. It's quite a different statement from the one you started with - that you couldn't accept the Book of Mormon without being a creationist - and moves the claim into the matter of doctrine rather than scripture, or whatever Mormon's refer to their texts as. But at least it makes sense, or appears to on the surface; I'll have to look into that further.

Meanwhile, you might want to look into the Catholic Church's positions on infallibility and inerrancy; they're intertwined, but the Church largely holds that the Bible is infallible (without error on matters of revealed truth and faith) but not necessarily inerrant (without error on any topic). I think you'll find as many problems raised by this (or either) interpretation as the one raised by Mormon doctrine.

631 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:56:25pm

re: #616 Dianna

You had best read the BoM then, and also the history of the LDS church.

There are people of faith and people of fanaticism in every religion.

Most people, of whatever religion, can separate the two - $holytext is a set of morality stories, advice and guidelines for living a good life, school is where you learn about history, science and literature.

Some people can't or won't think for themselves, read critically and analytically and realize that nothing written by people contains the Truth-with-a-capital-T. Of course, most of those types don't accept the idea of $holytext as being the work of humans.

In my mind, and I think in the minds of most sane people, there's a big difference between divinely inspired and the word of the divine.

632 itellu3times  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 2:56:56pm

re: #629 hous bin pharteen

Why worry about the lenth of time when we had planet earth around?
Nothing exists long ago.
Nada.
Zip.
Then one day, there was a big explosion, and the earth, solar system, and the uviverse flew out.

It is called the big bang theory.
But for all we know, it could have just been The Big Fart.

I know you're just funnin', but there's a lot of traditional concern over whether we understand how things develop, like continental drift and radioactive decay and evolution and the national debt, or whether all these things just happened yesterday and don't really call for understanding.

633 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:00:13pm

re: #621 SixDegrees

So, do all Mormons think that the Book of Mormon is literal?

This is not asked of me, but being a public forum I have to ask of you to explain what is literal and what is not in their case, since you base your opinion just on what you have not heard?

It would seem that the fundamental essence of what they are is based on a very literal and very well documented (by other contemporary parties) history; unlike Christianity.

634 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:01:04pm

re: #628 WinterCat

I am not offended at all. I just don't agree that he is unelectable. He won in Massachusetts -- a blue state if there ever was one. I have read a little bit about him and while dyed in the wool dems froth a the mouth at the mention of his name, he seems to be pretty clean when it comes to mixing politics and religion. Yes, anything that his opponents can grab on to will be exploited but they have no facts (that I know of) to sully him in this regard. I actually think that he will have as hard a time with fundamentalist Christians who think he has 10 wives hidden somewhere.

I could be wrong.

Obama voter here who would likely have voted Republican had Romney been the nominee.

The problem Romney will have is not going to be in the general (the fact that he won in Mass. proves that he can make himself liked and trusted by moderate and Liberal-leaning voters) - it's going to be in the primary. He's going to have to have a GOOD strategy to not get shut out by the Southern Firewall.

Palin's announcement probably gave Romney a headache - his best strategy in the South would have been to let Huck and Palin fight each other for the socon/religious/far-right voters and hope they split that enough to give him a centrist/ficon victory.

635 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:02:46pm

re: #630 SixDegrees

A quick look at several LDS sites leads to this article and several others like it. It appears that the Mormons do not hold the Book of Mormon to be inerrant, but do believe it to be inerrant on matters of doctrine. They go so far as to acknowledge the possibility and probability that it contains errors that potentially arise from many sources. In short, their position is not that the Book of Mormon is literally true; their position is far more akin to that of the Catholic Church's interpretation of the Bible.

636 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:03:44pm

re: #21 doppelganglander

You've got it backwards. Creationism assumes a very small God who cannot work through the majestic scientific theories we are only beginning to understand.

Creationists lack faith that God will forgive His children for questioning the Bible. (Or do they think that God cannot distinguish between honest doubt and spiteful rejection?)

637 SixDegrees  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:04:44pm

re: #633 Naso Tang

This is not asked of me, but being a public forum I have to ask of you to explain what is literal and what is not in their case, since you base your opinion just on what you have not heard?

It would seem that the fundamental essence of what they are is based on a very literal and very well documented (by other contemporary parties) history; unlike Christianity.

"Literal" in the sense that Dianna appears to be using it: the sense that it is true word for word, not allegorically or to be passed through any other interpretive filter.

638 Adrenalyn  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:05:47pm

re: #628 WinterCat

I am not offended at all. I just don't agree that he is unelectable. He won in Massachusetts -- a blue state if there ever was one. I have read a little bit about him and while dyed in the wool dems froth a the mouth at the mention of his name, he seems to be pretty clean when it comes to mixing politics and religion. Yes, anything that his opponents can grab on to will be exploited but they have no facts (that I know of) to sully him in this regard. I actually think that he will have as hard a time with fundamentalist Christians who think he has 10 wives hidden somewhere.

I could be wrong.

nah, I hope you are right
indeed he could fight the charges, as it were
after 8 years of Bush taking a pummelling
I guess I was not expecting to have someone who could/would fight back

but yes, Mass is pretty durn blue
oh shit, now I gotta wash my brain
just thinking about Kerry and Kennedy

639 WinterCat  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:06:16pm

re: #634 ~Fianna

Obama voter here who would likely have voted Republican had Romney been the nominee.

The problem Romney will have is not going to be in the general (the fact that he won in Mass. proves that he can make himself liked and trusted by moderate and Liberal-leaning voters) - it's going to be in the primary. He's going to have to have a GOOD strategy to not get shut out by the Southern Firewall.

Palin's announcement probably gave Romney a headache - his best strategy in the South would have been to let Huck and Palin fight each other for the socon/religious/far-right voters and hope they split that enough to give him a centrist/ficon victory.

Astute observations. I don't think Palin is nearly the right wing fundy that the dems painted her as but she would have a hard time breaking that mold especially in 3 years. And especially when she is not holding public office. Of course, much will depend on where she goes from here.

640 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:06:56pm

re: #630 SixDegrees

OK, finally, some progress. It's quite a different statement from the one you started with - that you couldn't accept the Book of Mormon without being a creationist - and moves the claim into the matter of doctrine rather than scripture, or whatever Mormon's refer to their texts as. But at least it makes sense, or appears to on the surface; I'll have to look into that further.

Meanwhile, you might want to look into the Catholic Church's positions on infallibility and inerrancy; they're intertwined, but the Church largely holds that the Bible is infallible (without error on matters of revealed truth and faith) but not necessarily inerrant (without error on any topic). I think you'll find as many problems raised by this (or either) interpretation as the one raised by Mormon doctrine.

No, it does not move it in any such direction. Mormon doctrine - in case you are unaware of a really interesting and quite significant piece of American history - was established by the founder, Joseph Smith. The same fellow who "found" some "golden plates" and claimed to be translating ancient texts which were historical records. Not setting down significant myths with a moral point, as in Genesis.

Smith claimed this material as literally true. The church can try to soften that point. But it won't work, because without that claim, where do the Mormons go?

And the events of the Book of Mormon demand a very young earth. Which, since there's no way for the LDS to back away from a claim of literal truth, leaves them in a very nasty trap.

The Catholic Church, after two thousand years and a whole lot of dead people, has refined its theology and philosophy into a very fine, coherent structure.

641 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:07:25pm

re: #633 Naso Tang

This is not asked of me, but being a public forum I have to ask of you to explain what is literal and what is not in their case, since you base your opinion just on what you have not heard?

It would seem that the fundamental essence of what they are is based on a very literal and very well documented (by other contemporary parties) history; unlike Christianity.

Ha, in your reach for a dig, did you just imply that Mormons aren't Christians?

And you do know they believe their church to be a RESTORATION of the Gospel, right?

So they claim to be older than previous versions of Christianity.

642 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:08:28pm

re: #631 ~Fianna

Maybe.

643 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:12:23pm

re: #635 SixDegrees

A quick look at several LDS sites leads to this article and several others like it. It appears that the Mormons do not hold the Book of Mormon to be inerrant, but do believe it to be inerrant on matters of doctrine. They go so far as to acknowledge the possibility and probability that it contains errors that potentially arise from many sources. In short, their position is not that the Book of Mormon is literally true; their position is far more akin to that of the Catholic Church's interpretation of the Bible.

There is a big difference that you gloss over. The Mormons are told when to change their interpretations, by direct command from God to their 12 prophets who have a direct line up there. They changed it, for example, when the abolished polygamy on command (the fact that the US army was about to relieve them of their lands if they didn't was presumably coincidental). There is something uncomfortably familiar about a religion that has a council of God appointed rulers. The Pope, by comparison, does not claim the same level of authority, only influence.

They also changed their interpretation of where darker skinned people came from and why, but somehow it hasn't translated into a lot of Black converts. Know any?

644 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:12:47pm

re: #635 SixDegrees

Um.

You missed something. The article is a nice piece of mis-direction, aimed at the Bible, not the Book of Mormon.

645 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:14:39pm

re: #639 WinterCat

Astute observations. I don't think Palin is nearly the right wing fundy that the dems painted her as but she would have a hard time breaking that mold especially in 3 years. And especially when she is not holding public office. Of course, much will depend on where she goes from here.

It will be interesting to see what she does.

It will also be interesting to see where the party goes for 2012. I haven't heard much about Jindal since his awful response to Obama's address to Congress in February. I'm wondering if that hurt him as badly as Sebilius' awful response to the State of the Union a few years ago hurt hers.

646 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:15:12pm

re: #641 OldLineTexan

They claim to be Christians. They think they're Christians.

Since I'm not a Christian, that's just fine with me.

647 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:16:22pm

re: #641 OldLineTexan

Ha, in your reach for a dig, did you just imply that Mormons aren't Christians?

And you do know they believe their church to be a RESTORATION of the Gospel, right?

So they claim to be older than previous versions of Christianity.

No, they are not Christians. They have nothing in common with Christianity, specifically the bible, except that they recognize the divinity of Jesus, but I'm sure you know that so do Muslims to the extent that he was a prophet from God. Are they Christians as a result?

648 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:17:37pm

re: #646 Dianna

They claim to be Christians. They think they're Christians.

Since I'm not a Christian, that's just fine with me.

Since I am a Christian, I do the same, even when some of them tell me I am not.

But the comment was aimed specifically as a reply to the post it refers to.

649 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:17:58pm

I wasn't saying anything, because I consider Dianna a (online) friend, and hope she will still be my friend. I usually avoid arguing about my religion, but to be clear on two points:

1. The Book of Mormon doesn't contain an account of creation. It starts in 600 BC.

2. Joseph Smith didn't find the golden plates. He was told exactly where to look for them.

650 solomonpanting  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:18:53pm

this earth’s been here 6,000 years

Last time I heard that I fell off my dinosaur. Really.

651 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:19:22pm

re: #649 EmmmieG

2. Joseph Smith didn't find the golden plates. He was told exactly where to look for them.

There's a difference?

652 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:19:55pm

re: #647 Naso Tang

No, they are not Christians. They have nothing in common with Christianity, specifically the bible, except that they recognize the divinity of Jesus, but I'm sure you know that so do Muslims to the extent that he was a prophet from God. Are they Christians as a result?

A prophet is not divine. Muslims specifically reject that Jesus was the Son of God (and I use caps for the usual reason).

Mormons claim to believe in Jesus as the Son of God and the Savior; their doctrine does this in a decidedly different way, obviously.

I am willing to let God sort it out.

653 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:20:53pm

re: #651 Naso Tang

There's a difference?

Um, yes. It wasn't an accident. He was told where they were.

654 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:21:06pm

re: #649 EmmmieG

I wasn't saying anything, because I consider Dianna a (online) friend, and hope she will still be my friend. I usually avoid arguing about my religion, but to be clear on two points:

1. The Book of Mormon doesn't contain an account of creation. It starts in 600 BC.

2. Joseph Smith didn't find the golden plates. He was told exactly where to look for them.

I consider you an online friend as well.

So I'll leave this topic before I offend you.

655 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:21:35pm

re: #651 Naso Tang

There's a difference?

Oh, dear.

Let's leave it.

656 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:22:23pm

re: #654 Dianna

I consider you an online friend as well.

So I'll leave this topic before I offend you.

As I said, I didn't want to argue, just clear up a misconception. You have every right not to believe in the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith.

657 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:27:33pm

re: #656 EmmmieG

As I said, I didn't want to argue, just clear up a misconception. You have every right not to believe in the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith.

I've read it, and I'm pretty sure I'd end up annoying you.

658 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:29:11pm
659 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:31:30pm

re: #652 OldLineTexan

A prophet is not divine. Muslims specifically reject that Jesus was the Son of God (and I use caps for the usual reason).

Mormons claim to believe in Jesus as the Son of God and the Savior; their doctrine does this in a decidedly different way, obviously.

I am willing to let God sort it out.

The finer points of divine versus a direct line are debatable, and no doubt God will sort it out, so to speak, but some have to question why that seems to be such a difficult thing to have accomplished by now after 6000 years or so/.

As to Mormonism, their history can be viewed as an amazing story of human endurance and accomplishment, as well as an example of how people will believe anything if it helps them give meaning to their life. That latter point is a human condition and I don't condemn it; it is a fact of life, but in this case there is a political dimension and I could not vote for a president who believed what I know about Joseph Smith and his fairy tales.

660 itellu3times  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:31:55pm

re: #658 Iron Fist

Obama voter? How pleased are you with the results of your vote?

I can guess.

661 Dianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:32:49pm

I'm out.

Good night!

662 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:34:45pm

re: #655 Dianna

Oh, dear.

Let's leave it.

You know exactly what I meant. Both claims come from the same source and are therefore indistinguishable.

We can leave it there.

663 sagehen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:43:09pm

re: #249 lawhawk

Well, there are their plans to bankrupt us with their health care reform. That's right folks, they're itching to penalize people who have chosen not to get health insurance and forcing them into paying for it. That's a tax - a cost that they would otherwise have not incurred. That's going to save people money? Really? In what alternative reality does that save that person money?


In the reality where if you're taken to an emergency room after a car accident, they don't just roll you back out into the parking lot and leave you to die.

664 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:47:14pm

re: #658 Iron Fist

Obama voter? How pleased are you with the results of your vote?

About as pleased as I thought I'd be, which is to say not much.

I couldn't vote for McCain for a few reasons:
1. Unsuitable temperament
2. Misogynist pig (which came out in the campaign via his team's treatment of Palin - she was great until she stopped being a prop and became a person, and I don't think McCain or his close team liked that much.)
3. I hated his health care plan
4. I hated his environmental plan

I liked Obama's tech plan (some of which we're starting to see come in to fruition)... I'm deeply disgusted by how the administation has handled the environment. It's not significantly different from what I'd have expected from a McCain administration. I'm PISSED about don't ask/don't tell. Biden makes me want to scream (Obama almost lost my vote on the Biden nomination, actually - Palin made that a wash, though).

I didn't love either choice, honestly.

I don't like how the economy has been handled at all. I thought the Bush bailouts were stupid and offensive and Obama one-upped that by not only continuing Bush's stupid and offensive policy but raising the stakes with the stupidulous bill that no one read and that I don't think is going to help.

I think Obama did do the R party a favor with the Huntsman appointment in the long run. Huntsman is a rather appealing candidate and Obama just gave him a great resume line for a Presidential run in 2016.

McCain appealed to me a lot in 2000. By 2008 he'd run too hard to the right and I thought that the Palin nomination (not even necessarily Palin herself) was so badly handled that I just didn't think McCain was up for the job at this point. He lost what made him appealing in 2000.

665 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:47:42pm

re: #660 itellu3times

I can guess.

Were you right?

666 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:53:14pm

re: #663 sagehen

In the reality where if you're taken to an emergency room after a car accident, they don't just roll you back out into the parking lot and leave you to die.

It shifts the burden where it properly goes, I guess. Any idea how much state and local agencies pay for emergency treatment for the uninsured?

also, and I found this out the hard way - what a hospital charges a cash patient is 3-5x what they charge an insured patient with a negotiated rate. I had treatment for the same condition twice, once with insurance and once without. The first time was a laproscopic procedure, not in-patient (went to the emergency room, to the OR and back home in about 13 hours) - that was without insurance and I paid 16k out of pocket - the hospital was kind enough to waive 30% since I kept my payments on schedule, or more than $1000.00 an hour. The second time was full open surgery as an admitted patient, 3 night hospital stay, my cost was $100 ER co-pay, $50 anesthesiologist copay and $100 hospital stay copay, total bill $9000 to the insurance company for a total cost of about $9250 for the whole thing.

667 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:57:08pm
668 Cygnus  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:58:46pm

re: #228 VioletTiger

Hey, what happened to mr. witwwats?

He who posts and runs away lives to post another day.

669 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 4:07:55pm

re: #659 Naso Tang

The finer points of divine versus a direct line are debatable, and no doubt God will sort it out, so to speak, but some have to question why that seems to be such a difficult thing to have accomplished by now after 6000 years or so/.

As I understand "divine", a prophet does not qualify. Speaking with Deity does not make one Deity.

As to Mormonism, their history can be viewed as an amazing story of human endurance and accomplishment, as well as an example of how people will believe anything if it helps them give meaning to their life. That latter point is a human condition and I don't condemn it; it is a fact of life, but in this case there is a political dimension and I could not vote for a president who believed what I know about Joseph Smith and his fairy tales.

I come here neither to praise Mormonism nor bury it.

670 ryannon  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 4:28:41pm

re: #45 Ben Hur

Indians in Arizona beleive the wind speaks.

Yes, and they're right.

671 Alberta Oil Peon  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 4:46:24pm

re: #89 jaunte

Anyone agree we should be mining uranium?

Absolutely. Mine the Earth first; we can do the other planets later.

But seriously, uranium is our best possible alternative if we choose to have cheap, non-polluting, carbon-free energy.

672 sagehen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 4:51:56pm

re: #639 WinterCat

Astute observations. I don't think Palin is nearly the right wing fundy that the dems painted her as but she would have a hard time breaking that mold especially in 3 years. And especially when she is not holding public office. Of course, much will depend on where she goes from here.

She's not even trying to break that mold. Her book will be released through a Christian imprint, her coauthor is a prominent Christian writer...

673 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 4:56:05pm

re: #669 OldLineTexan

I accept your point, syntactically speaking. I've probably pissed off enough people today. I'll give it a rest.

674 Alberta Oil Peon  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 4:57:46pm

re: #183 RightOnTheLeftCoast

Back in the late 70's, I read a book about Le Petomaine.
I'm always reminded of this comedy recording about a "crepitation contest"
The announcer sounds like one of those vintage BBC types who is reporting the proceedings so matter-of-factly... until right at the end. ;)

I remember hearing that on a tape nearly 40 years ago, and it had been around a while then. What I was told is that it was an in-house joke perpetrated by some CBC employees on their own time, lampooning the somewhat stuffy way that CBC presented sporting events. Supposedly, the announcer was voiced by the late Peter Ustinov. He certainly had the sense of humor for it.

675 sagehen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 5:06:13pm

re: #667 buzzsawmonkey

I don't see that McCain's staff's treatment of Palin makes him a "misogynist pig"--especially since he chose her in the first place.

What made McCain a misogynist pig is his position on abortion, as expressed in one of the debates -- that he didn't believe in exceptions for "health of the mother" (said with a snarky voice, smirky face and finger quotes) because women exaggerate.

676 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 5:12:01pm
677 freetoken  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 5:13:01pm

re: #265 KingKenrod

It doesn't mean she's stupid or incapable of leading, she's just ignorant of something most of us (mostly younger people) take for granted.

Sorry, not buying the excuses. Oh, I agree with the idea of not overly scorning the ignorant, but in this case the woman is hardly a newbie to public issues.

She ran for the AZ legislature (and lost.) Then, she was appointed to fill an empty senate seat, and then ran for reelection for that seat. Therefore she has been interested in public life for a while.

Furthermore, my mother is considerable older than her, and she grew up on a farm, never finished high school, the people who raised her were very religious, etc, and yet my mother has been fully aware of the controversy over human origins (as far back as I can remember.)

The AZ state senator is choosing to believe the earth is 6000 years old, even though her society which surrounds her is full of broadcast messages to the contrary. AZ is full of geologists and those who study the earth and the past, the states most famous monument (the Grand Canyon) is considered one of Earth's ultimate teaching tools, and so forth...

The woman in question is intentionally picking her worldview to fit her desires.

678 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 5:34:00pm
679 Ojoe  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 5:41:30pm

Will the Republican party last 6,000 years? Not at this rate.

Morons morons
Bo borons
Banana fanana
Fo forons
Me my mo morons
Morons!

680 Ojoe  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 5:42:13pm

re: #664 ~Fianna

Of the four candidates I thought Palin was the only one with common sense.

681 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 5:47:35pm

re: #680 Ojoe

Of the four candidates I thought Palin was the only one with common sense.

What does that have to do with being president of the USA? /

682 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 6:55:55pm
683 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 7:24:42pm

re: #129 buzzsawmonkey

If you play the New Testament backwards, you find out that Paul's dead.

Does that make you the walrus?

684 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 7:36:17pm

re: #667 buzzsawmonkey

I know this is a dead thread, but I did want to respond to some of the issues you raised:

Temperment: McCain has a good personality for a combat pilot - quick decisions that you have to live with or die with no matter what. I don't think that's a good temperament for a the guy with the football. He's just not measured enough. He took the maverick thing too far, and a hothead in the White House scared me.

I think that Obama listens to debate. Maybe I'm wrong about that - I've never gotten an invite to the meetings. :)

Obama seems closer to my ideal of an executive - he's intellectually curious, is willing to hear an argument and then makes a decision and goes with it.

Women - McCain picked Palin out of spite. It was also a snap decision that I don't think worked out quite as he'd expected it to. He also called his wife a very nasty name during a press conference. He also used scare quotes around the health of the mother issue during a debate. Have you ever seen [Link: www.mccainhateswomen.com...] - It's pretty uncomfortable watching.

McCain's health plan called for taxing employer benefits and giving families a $5000.00 credit for health insurance. I've priced health insurance for both my family and for the businesses I run. In neither case was $5000 enough to purchase anything other than a major medical plan.

I'm pro-universal health care, by the way, especially as a business owner. Why in the name of anything is it MY responsibility to provide health care for my employees? It's very expensive, both up front and in administration costs. I've tried to find a plan that covers our employees, but we're a small group, which means it's very expensive and outside of a large group individual health still matters. I don't want access to individual employee health data, security for that is a nightmare. I also don't want to pay for the fact that Bob has high cholesterol and Jen has a family history of breast cancer. However, NOT providing health insurance costs us a lot in retention. We can't hire the best people, they go somewhere with employer provided care. Hell every one of us, me, my husband (who is also a partner in the firm) and every other partner has at one time or another considered folding our interest because it really, really sucks to not have health insurance. I can't even buy a plan just for us, because we can't afford that either (and I'm not anywhere near the salary of the average American. If I can't pay for it, put money in to the business and pay the rest of my bills, I don't know how anyone does.)

Not having some sort of universal health plan is what destroyed Detroit - they can't compete on costs when the benefits plan of the average line worker is worth nearly the same amount as their salary.

We also pay for it later - let's take swine flu. I could be walking around with it for a week, I don't go to the doctor because I don't have insurance, so few doctors will see me and an ER visit costs close to $500 bucks when you count perscriptions + visit. I'm not the only one who does without vaccines, routine care that can catch issues early before they're that expensive to treat etc because I don't have health insurance. There's costs on top of the real cost that need to be calculated.

Tech - Obama did have one. Take it you never looked at his website? Here it is: [Link: www.barackobama.com...]
McCain didn't have one. He also reportedly couldn't use email. Look at the news from the NORKs today - I'd rather have someone who understands that the net isn't a "series of tubes". We've got at least the beginning of a unified cyberdefence policy in process now because Obama can conceive of the need for it. The Republican part's biggest problem right now is that they don't understand tech or how people use it. I wanted to see something about privacy rights. I wanted to see something about updating infrastructre.
Ctd.

685 JacksonTn  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 7:39:55pm

re: #684 ~Fianna

F ... you think people here never looked at his website? ... you would be wrong ... it was looked at by more people here than by his supporters ... for one reason that he kept scrubbing it clean ... but then you were not here for that ...

And if his tech knowledge was indicated by the website ... he sucked ... there were many ways to get into his website and only after it was pointed out on other blogs (this one included) did they change it ...

686 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 7:41:40pm

re: #667 buzzsawmonkey

Environment: I know this is not a popular position here, but I do accept the research on AGW. Obama needs to be stronger on nuclear, but McCain had no environmental or conservation policy at all. More tax cuts for oil companies! That's not going to fix anything and it's also flat-out rejecting the reality that energy security == national security.

Am I thrilled - no, not really. I'd rather have seen Mitt Romney get through the primary. I'm hopeful that Huntsman chooses to run in 2016. I'm not excited about being taxed to death between now and then, but if we can get some sort of stabilization on the environment, a national commitment to recapturing our position as the global leader in science and tech and someone who doesn't treat women like crap (McCain voted against Lilly Ledbetter, which is just inane. There are few torts that start the clock at the time of injury not the time of discovery. How the heck can a woman who is being unfairly paid sue until she KNOWS that the men she works with are being paid more?) I think the Republic will stand. We've been through worse.

687 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 7:44:16pm

re: #684 ~Fianna

This post is little more than a measured version of DNC talking points. To answer it:

1. Obama does not strike me at all like he listens to debate. His plans and timetables are inflexible and changes have be dragged out of him. His answer to calls for compromise is "I won".

2. Universal health care gives a bigger role than it already has. With the long list of government failures, I'm not anxious to give it yet more power.

3. John McCain can use a computer but it is very hard for him because of his war injuries. This is a Boston Globe article that explains it.

688 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 7:46:38pm

re: #675 sagehen

What made McCain a misogynist pig is his position on abortion, as expressed in one of the debates -- that he didn't believe in exceptions for "health of the mother" (said with a snarky voice, smirky face and finger quotes) because women exaggerate.

That was exceptionally off-putting. Just - I couldn't stop screaming at the tv.

689 ShanghaiEd  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 8:12:10pm

re: #35 FurryOldGuyJeans

Why do you think the astronauts took wine and crackers with them?

You jest, but while we're on that subject...I didn't find out until recently that Buzz Aldrin took Communion when he was on the moon.

Although I'm a knee-jerk reactionary on the separation of church and state, I really admire Aldrin for doing that and admire NASA for cooperating. As a totally private religious act with no fanfare, I think it was a wonderful and appropriate thing.

690 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 8:19:20pm

re: #685 JacksonTn

F ... you think people here never looked at his website? ... you would be wrong ... it was looked at by more people here than by his supporters ... for one reason that he kept scrubbing it clean ... but then you were not here for that ...

And if his tech knowledge was indicated by the website ... he sucked ... there were many ways to get into his website and only after it was pointed out on other blogs (this one included) did they change it ...

I'm not saying he was a programmer. Web programming is something of an evolving discipline (as is hiring people who can actually do it, not just tell you they can do it, especially if you're not a tech person.)

It's just that the tech policy was published there and wasn't a part that was edited much, so I was surprised that no one hear had noted it. If that read as more obnoxious sounding, that wasn't how it was meant at all.

Someday someone will invent a tone-of-voiceometer for the internet.

691 NukeAtomrod  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 8:23:50pm

Er... Is it possible she meant to say six billion instead of six thousand? Is there any way to verify that she's a young earth creationist before we join the feeding frenzy? If she is, eat up. But, I'd at least like to give her the benefit of the doubt first.

692 ~Fianna  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 8:28:57pm

re: #687 Dark_Falcon

This post is little more than a measured version of DNC talking points. To answer it:

1. Obama does not strike me at all like he listens to debate. His plans and timetables are inflexible and changes have be dragged out of him. His answer to calls for compromise is "I won".

2. Universal health care gives a bigger role than it already has. With the long list of government failures, I'm not anxious to give it yet more power.

3. John McCain can use a computer but it is very hard for him because of his war injuries. This is a Boston Globe article that explains it.

McCain himself admitted that he doesn't know how to use a computer: [Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Most of the people I know who were working for campaigns were working for candidates other than McCain, so I've probably heard the worst of the operative gossip, but he had his email printed for him afaik.

693 NukeAtomrod  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 8:29:56pm

re: #686 ~Fianna

Actually, McCain's environmental position was very similar to Obama's. He was for tighter regulations including Cap and Trade.

I'm not surprised that you didn't know this. Reporting on McCain during the election was pitiful. He just didn't send tingles up anyone's leg.

694 capitalist piglet  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 8:44:05pm

re: #366 buzzsawmonkey

Watching iceweasel moronically equate the grotesque Fred Phelps "church" with genuine Christians, as s/he gleefully does above, is offensive to me.

Everyone here, Jew, Christian, atheist, whatever, rightly regards the Phelps cult as a bizarre aberration, and seeing this weasel carry on as if that cult were representative of anything other than its own derangement is an insult to the genuine Christians here.

Seeing this poster, further, wallow in the stupidities of an equally antireligious site which conflates the various prohibitions of the Torah in a grossly ignorant fashion is likewise offensive.

You probably won't see this, but thank you, buzz.

695 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 8:45:08pm

re: #682 Iron Fist

I haven't done this in a while...

[DARK MALEVOLENT LAUGHTER]

I hope that was intended as an addendum to my post......

:)

696 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 8:51:55pm

re: #691 NukeAtomrod

Er... Is it possible she meant to say six billion instead of six thousand? Is there any way to verify that she's a young earth creationist before we join the feeding frenzy? If she is, eat up. But, I'd at least like to give her the benefit of the doubt first.

You must be kidding.

697 Optimizer  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 9:02:19pm

I'm sure Charles is trying to make us poor folks in New York State feel better, by showing how ignorant state senators in other states are in comparison, but it's just not working.

Come to think of it, I couldn't tell you for sure whether we have any Creationists or not, so maybe we have that, too. All I can say is that my own personal experience with my own state senator, was that he was an ignorant, slimy liar. He couldn't even name the five largest cities in the state, despite his dealing with their representatives on a daily basis. He had little in the way of real-life accomplishments - just found himself in politics due to family connections right out of law school (and not a prestigious one, either). Oh, and he's rumored to have gotten married in order to hide the fact that he lived (lives?) in Albany with his gay boyfriend. The "liar" stuff involved the actual subject matter when I dealt with him - it was pretty transparent.

And THIS guy (a Republican, BTW, so he's probably better than the alternative) makes the two Democratic turncoats (one of whom turncoated even on being a turncoat) look GOOD in comparison. The one Dem is facing assault charges, and I forget about the other but it was pretty bad, too. So we've got our own little freak show going on here, too.

OK, I admit it ... I made it up. That stuff about Charles just trying to make us feel better was completely fictional.

698 el polacko  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 9:02:49pm

didn't the bush administration see to it that only the 'biblically correct' version of the making of the grand canyon be made available in the gift shop? it's little wonder that this lady believes that the planet is practically brand-new... but jeeze folks, how about a little freedom FROM religion? all this sniping about cloth fibers and shrimp cocktails is pretty ridiculous. i don't give a rat's ass what's in your magic books and i'm sick of endlessly hearing about it all.

699 missykrissy  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 9:52:03pm

But the earth *IS* 6000 years old!

(And 7000, and 8000, and 9000, and.....)

700 Optimizer  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 10:40:15pm

re: #686 ~Fianna

Environment: I know this is not a popular position here, but I do accept the research on AGW. Obama needs to be stronger on nuclear, but McCain had no environmental or conservation policy at all. More tax cuts for oil companies! That's not going to fix anything and it's also flat-out rejecting the reality that energy security == national security.

You're killing me here, with the phrase I put in bold. Your vote has proven to be one for strangling our energy supply (something that was obvious ahead of time, if you were paying attention). Do you think windwills and solar cells can reasonably power this country - EVER? Didn't McCain (despite drinking the AGW Kool-Aid, himself) at least propose building more nuclear plants? (Or do I have that wrong?) Obama's even trying to choke off the millions of barrels of oil we could be getting from the Alberta tar sands.

Nobody can seriously talk about "energy security" (for the next 50 years, anyway) unless they're talking about two things: 1) More nuclear power plants for electricity. 2) Fueling our cars with coal (converted to either gasoline or natural gas). We are the Saudi Arabia of coal, and electric cars have serious practical problems. We could be completely energy-independent within 20 years or so, and it would even be cost-effective. Beyond their practical failings, how anybody can look at windmill or solar farms cluttering up the countryside and call that "saving the environment" is beyond me.

... but if we can get some sort of stabilization on the environment ...

Um... if by that you mean the "global climate", well it's been pretty stable (within tenths of degrees) for about 10 years now, and it's shown us that it's going to (mostly) do what it's going to do, regardless of what we do. Even before the last ten years, it has only varied a few degrees over the last several centuries. I wish my finances were so "stable"!

701 capitalist piglet  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 10:45:45pm

re: #698 el polacko

didn't the bush administration see to it that only the 'biblically correct' version of the making of the grand canyon be made available in the gift shop? it's little wonder that this lady believes that the planet is practically brand-new... but jeeze folks, how about a little freedom FROM religion? all this sniping about cloth fibers and shrimp cocktails is pretty ridiculous. i don't give a rat's ass what's in your magic books and i'm sick of endlessly hearing about it all.

And with an approach like that, naturally, we can't get enough of you.

/

702 freetoken  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 10:50:20pm

re: #684 ~Fianna

Even though I don't really agree with everything you said (e.g., I do not believe that President Obama is an ideal executive), I up-dinged you for sharing your personal experience as a business person struggling with the healthcare issue.

It is good to get more first-hand opinions, rather than only kicking around statements from pundits.

703 hous bin pharteen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 10:59:02pm

re: #632 itellu3times

I don't mind what everyone likes to chat about.

704 hous bin pharteen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 11:02:37pm

re: #700 Optimizer

Now you are busting on Saint Algore It is just just a rumor his making millions on this issue.

705 hous bin pharteen  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 11:03:18pm

sorry.

his = he is

706 ihateronpaul  Thu, Jul 9, 2009 5:43:37am

this is why people do not take the republican party seriously.

707 NukeAtomrod  Thu, Jul 9, 2009 7:02:52am

re: #696 Naso Tang

You must be kidding.

You've convinced me. I'll just assume the worst about people from now on...

It's foolish to verify that a person actually believes what they've said after they make a deeply stupid comment on TV.

I guess that means Obama really believed that he campaigned in 57 states and had one more to go. And Biden really believes that "jobs" is a three letter word. And McCain wanted to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.

708 American Sabra  Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:51:50am

re: #706 ihateronpaul

this is why people do not take the republican party seriously.

Well that and Sarah Palin.

709 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:58:53am

re: #707 NukeAtomrod

Oh come on. It is not a matter of believing the worst, it is a matter of believing what they say. Do you often give the benefit of the doubt if you can think of an alternate explanation for what appears to be stupidity?

You suggest you would be thinking the worst if you believed she meant her words. There are hundreds of hits on google for this and none seem to be an explanation of how she meant 6 billion, and why 6 billion is also pulled out of thin air.

It also seems to escape you that regardless of the numbers, the argument that something didn't exist in the past and is therefore stupid to do now, is so dumb I can't think of a word for it.

Having said that, without knowing the details of this issue, I am all in favor of mining uranium.

710 Pupdawg  Thu, Jul 9, 2009 11:03:08am

...or, thereabouts...:-)

711 John Neverbend  Thu, Jul 9, 2009 11:31:03am

How brazen. I'm going to make a point of stating the earth's true age in every speech that I give, starting with my daughter's bat-mitzvah.

Note the man who crosses behind the Senator and whispers something to a colleague.

I wonder what he was saying. Here are my best guesses:

1. When did they let her out of the lunatic asylum?
2. The earth must be female, as you don't know it's age (attributed to Lord Kelvin).
3. Where is the bathroom?

712 John Neverbend  Thu, Jul 9, 2009 11:31:35am

re: #711 John Neverbend

How brazen. I'm going to make a point of stating the earth's true age in every speech that I give, starting with my daughter's bat-mitzvah.

Note the man who crosses behind the Senator and whispers something to a colleague.

I wonder what he was saying. Here are my best guesses:

1. When did they let her out of the lunatic asylum?
2. The earth must be female, as you don't know it's age (attributed to Lord Kelvin).
3. Where is the bathroom?

PIMF - "its" not "it's".

713 Rolltideroll  Thu, Jul 9, 2009 11:54:58am

Speechless. The young earthers just can't win for losing.

714 Rolltideroll  Thu, Jul 9, 2009 11:57:12am

I went to a private religious schoolin the Upper part of Alabama for a while. It was as fundamental as it gets. We got all this earth young age stuff. Nothing drove me to atheism faster than these kooks.

715 ~Fianna  Thu, Jul 9, 2009 2:06:00pm

re: #702 freetoken

Even though I don't really agree with everything you said (e.g., I do not believe that President Obama is an ideal executive), I up-dinged you for sharing your personal experience as a business person struggling with the healthcare issue.

It is good to get more first-hand opinions, rather than only kicking around statements from pundits.

Thanks - one of the reasons that I wanted to be part of this community is that I've learned a lot from reading other Lizard's posts and the tone of discussion here is so far above most other political/current event blogs that even though know most of you have a ton of disagreements with me on issues, at least the verbal abuse and childish namecalling is kept to a minimum (and often deserved when offered.)

Hopefully I can add to the discussion rather than detract from it. I held off even watching for an open registration despite throwing money in Charles' tip-jar for a long time because I didn't want to barge in, but so many of the discussions were so interesting and there were things I wanted to say, so I finally figured that if I was being annoying someone would let me know and I'd go back to mostly lurking. :)

716 A Reasonable Man  Thu, Jul 9, 2009 2:17:01pm

The further irony is that her point would have been much stronger if she knew the earth was 6 billion years old. Six thousand years isn't that long to survive without uranium mining.

717 NukeAtomrod  Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:05:27pm

re: #709 Naso Tang

I've never heard of this woman before and no one in all of those internet links has linked to another quote from her of any kind, let alone another quote that is creationist in nature. I have no idea if this was a slip of the tongue or she really is a nutball. I'm not apologizing for her, I'm just saying that there's at least a 50% chance we are jumping to conclusions. Maybe some investigative journalist will make a phone call to her office and we'll find out.

Oddly enough, I don't know how much cross-over the pro-nuclear power community shares with the young earth creationist community. It seems quite odd that someone would trust the opinions of nuclear physicists, but distrust the opinions of geologists and anthropologists.

718 freetoken  Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:36:27pm

re: #717 NukeAtomrod

Well, since this thread is still alive...

There is video of her giving the opening prayer during one of the sessions... online from the AZ Senate. While I do believe it is quite inappropriate to judge someone by listening in on their prayers... her own language suggests of someone very strongly religious in a manner consistent with American fundamentalist tradition.


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