New Report on the BNP Released

World • Views: 2,995

At Harry’s Place, Edmund Standing has a post about the release of his new report for the Center for Social Cohesion, on the white supremacist British National Party: The BNP and the Online Fascist Network.

The report makes it very clear that recent efforts by the BNP to appear as if they’ve moderated their views are nothing but a sham. Some European fascist groups (e.g., the Belgian Vlaams Belang) are better at fooling people with a moderate facade, but the BNP has too many unreconstructed Neanderthals in high places who just can’t help revealing their sick inner selves — for example, their leader and newly elected Member of European Parliament, Nick Griffin, who says the EU should start sinking immigrants’ boats, and compares Islam to “a cancer requiring global chemotherapy.”

This investigation into the online activities of BNP members and activists reveals that the racial ideology of the BNP has not changed from the early days in which the founder John Tyndall was party leader, when open expressions of Nazism were tolerated in the party.

The report has found that a significant number of BNP members and online grass-roots activists displayed significant ideological affinity with key tenets of the neo-Nazi ideology, including: support for violence; antisemitism and an admiration of the Third Reich; extreme racist views; and Holocaust denial.

Support for violence:

  • Lee Barnes – leading member and head of the BNP legal team – supports the National Front on his blog. He refers to the group as a valid ‘nationalist’ organization and suggests that they operate as a street force for the BNP.
  • Barnes advocates the downfall of western civilization: ‘The West deserves all it gets. The faster the fools that run the West destroy the West the better.’
  • The BNP supporting blog Britain Awake praises Combat 18 and supports violent attacks on Muslim women. Britain Awake is hosted by a self-described member of the BNP who claims to have attended the party’s exclusive Red, White and Blue festival.

Antisemitism and an admiration of the Third Reich:

  • The official BNP YouTube account and the official YouTube accounts of the Thurrock and Burnley BNP branches show close links with neo-Nazi and antisemitic activists and organizations, as do the users who have been accepted as ‘friends’ of these channels.
  • Blogs run by members and self-professed supporters of the BNP continue to host, and offer links to, material that is pro-Nazi, racist, antisemitic, and homophobic.
  • A member of the Covert Tactics blog, strongly linked with the BNP, refers to Jews as ‘greedy subhuman scum’. One member, Tommy Williams, is a neo-Nazi whose name appeared on the leaked list of BNP members. The blog expresses admiration for Hitler and has on a number of occasions denied or trivialised the Holocaust.

Extreme racist views:

  • So-called patriotic concerns of the BNP mask an underlying fear of racial ‘dissolution’ and a commitment to ’soft’ ethnic cleansing in the form of policies attempting to coerce non-white Britons into leaving the UK.
  • Material found on BNP supporting YouTube accounts, blogs, and internet forums contravenes the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006.

Holocaust denial:

The BNP website promotes books by neo-Nazi publishing houses which are dedicated to rehabilitating Nazism and denying the Holocaust.

Here’s the full report in PDF form.

Jump to bottom

144 comments
1 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:04:28am

I hate (add city/state/country) Nazis.

2 Dianna  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:04:32am

Good to see this is still a priority. BNP makes me rather ill, and the thought that they might mainstream themselves is very worrisome.

3 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:05:08am

There is no denying that there groups are Nazis, and there is no excuse for associating with them.

4 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:05:17am
The report makes it very clear that recent efforts by the BNP to appear as if they’ve moderated their views are nothing but a sham.


Nothing but a sham? Wow.
/I couldn't resist

5 Ringo the Gringo  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:05:22am

BNP = The British Neanderthal Party.

6 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:05:57am

re: #5 Ringo the Gringo

BNP = The British Neanderthal Party.

Except even a caveman knows better.

7 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:06:15am

re: #5 Ringo the Gringo

BNP = The British Neanderthal Party.

A bunch of Geico cavemen will be showing up at your house soon; they don't like being compared with the BNP members.

8 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:06:19am

Is Pamela shrieking yet?

9 Kragar  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:06:39am

re: #5 Ringo the Gringo

BNP = The British Neanderthal Party.

Nope, British Nazi Party fits better and doesn't insult neanderthals

10 Kragar  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:07:06am

re: #8 Ward Cleaver

Is Pamela shrieking yet?

Does a bear shit in the woods?

11 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:07:17am

The poison tree bred by Adolf Hitler and planted in England by Oswald Mosley continues to bear its ill fruit.

I hate UK Nazis!

12 Kragar  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:07:30am

re: #4 Kosh's Shadow

Nothing but a sham? Wow.
/I couldn't resist

*SLAP

13 GuillermoX  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:08:19am

"Neanderthals?"

14 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:08:25am

re: #10 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Does a bear shit in the woods?

Hopefully, it shits on her instead.

15 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:08:37am

re: #4 Kosh's Shadow

Nothing but a sham? Wow.
/I couldn't resist

Looks like Kragar wiped you out.

16 Danny  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:08:52am

I know what Fascism and Nazism are, but what exactly is "social cohesion"? Go easy on me now...

17 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:09:10am

re: #16 Danny

I know what Fascism and Nazism are, but what exactly is "social cohesion"? Go easy on me now...

Kumbayah?

18 Kragar  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:10:09am

re: #16 Danny

I know what Fascism and Nazism are, but what exactly is "social cohesion"? Go easy on me now...

I'll go out on a limb and say its a bullshit term to whitewash fascist and nazi tactics and make them seem more palatable to a person who wouldn't know better.

19 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:10:33am

re: #16 Danny

I know what Fascism and Nazism are, but what exactly is "social cohesion"? Go easy on me now...

As used here, it means keeping a place or nation of one race or religion. The BNP uses it in a White Nationalist context.

20 zombie  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:10:49am

About half the stuff in the report is sorta "guilt by association" and thereby fairly weak -- but the other half of the evidence is pretty damning. It's obvious that the BNP is the last refuge for racist scoundrels in the UK. Even if the BNP's leadership is trying to mainstreamize their message, the belief system of their constituents pretty much exposes that the publicly stated party positions are just a mask for what most members truly want (i.e. an all-white Britain).

21 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:11:09am

re: #19 Dark_Falcon

As used here, it means keeping a place or nation of one race or religion. The BNP uses it in a White Nationalist context.

That first sentence is confusing, so consider it stricken.

22 Danny  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:13:41am

You guys are confusing me...looks to me like the Centre for Social Cohesion issue the expose on BNP's ties to fascism??

23 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:14:27am

That reminds me. In the book Freakonomics there's a chapter that deals with the KKK. Do you know what's really retarded about the Klan (besides, well, everything about them?) The really retarded thing is their official book is called the Kloran. Why would a supposedly Christian organization (that hates Muslims) call their book that?

24 cagney  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:14:28am

re: #16 Danny

This is the 'newest' government initiative but really it just a rehash of their old multicultural policies. Like everything else the UK Labour government policy relaunch, a new title but the same old stuff tweaked with extra bureaucracy.

25 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:14:30am

BNP: Biggoted Nasty People

26 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:15:14am

Exposing the BNP's ties to fascism is like exposing water's ties to being wet or Bettie Paige's ties to leopard-print bikinis.

27 Ben Hur  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:15:29am

I read way to fast:

Netherlands? Really?

Oh.

Neanderthals.

28 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:15:46am

re: #27 Ben Hur

I read way to fast:

Netherlands? Really?

Oh.

Neanderthals.

More like Nether-regions.

29 Kragar  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:15:49am

re: #22 Danny

You guys are confusing me...looks to me like the Centre for Social Cohesion issue the expose on BNP's ties to fascism??

Its PC for "Can't we all just get along?" To the BNP, it means "We dont take kindly to your kind around here."

30 scottishbuzzsaw  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:15:52am

re: #22 Danny

You guys are confusing me...looks to me like the Centre for Social Cohesion issue the expose on BNP's ties to fascism??

This is their statement:

The Centre for Social Cohesion is a non-partisan think-tank that studies issues related to community cohesion in the UK. Committed to the promotion of human rights, it is the first think-tank in the UK to specialise in studying radicalisation and extremism within Britain.

HISTORY: Headquartered in Westminster, London, the CSC was founded in 2007 to promote human rights, tolerance and greater cohesion among the UK’s ethnic and religious communities and within wider British society.

RESEARCH: The CSC undertakes on-the-ground research into ethnic and religious communities in the UK and publishes impartial, detailed analyses. With a focus on extremism, radicalisation and different forms of Islamism, the CSC analyses potential challenges to human rights, religious pluralism and social cohesion across the UK.

PUBLIC INFORMATION: The CSC publishes regular publications and press briefings and holds seminars for policy-makers, politicians, journalists and the wider public to raise awareness of the human rights issues surrounding extremism, radicalisation and religious separatism. CSC staff members also appear regularly in the media commenting on a variety of issues relating to the promotion of human rights and social cohesion.

STAFF: Of diverse religious and ethnic backgrounds, the CSC research staff are trained in Islamic affairs, international relations and national security as well as humanities and the arts.

NON-PARTISANSHIP: The CSC is an independent think tank with no party-political affiliations.

31 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:15:54am
Lee Barnes – leading member and head of the BNP legal team – supports the National Front on his blog. He refers to the group as a valid ‘nationalist’ organization and suggests that they operate as a street force for the BNP.

The National Front seems to love the heck out of Bernie Ecclestone.

32 Dianna  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:16:00am

This is the site for The Centre for Social Cohesion: Have a look.

Usually, I'd look for their history and mission statement, but I'm summarizing drivel for my living, and don't have time.

33 Ringo the Gringo  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:16:22am

I apologize to any Neanderthals that I may have offended with my comment #5.

34 JustABill  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:16:31am

re: #7 Kosh's Shadow

A bunch of Geico cavemen will be showing up at your house soon; they don't like being compared with the BNP members.

I would love to see a comercial where they find one of the people writing those comercials and beat him with a club or something. They have the wimp for cavemen.

35 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:17:00am

The Center for Social Cohesion are the good guys.

36 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:17:15am

Reading through the report. What a bunch of disgusting people.

37 Kragar  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:17:37am

Shoggoth off Alaska IDd as algae

Another government coverup.

/

38 KenJen  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:17:41am

re: #22 Danny

You guys are confusing me...looks to me like the Centre for Social Cohesion issue the expose on BNP's ties to fascism??

re: #32 Dianna

This is the site for The Centre for Social Cohesion: Have a look.

Usually, I'd look for their history and mission statement, but I'm summarizing drivel for my living, and don't have time.

I checked it out. Looks very informative.

39 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:17:57am

How soon before the usual suspects turn up to attack Charles for once again promoting a site that states the obvious about the BNP and its cohorts? 3...2...1....

40 haakondahl  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:18:03am

re: #8 Ward Cleaver

Is Pamela shrieking yet?

Had she stopped?

41 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:19:00am

re: #35 Charles

The Center for Social Cohesion are the good guys.

Understood. My #19 should be stricken in its entirety then.

And with that bit of Fail, i'm heading to work. TTYL

42 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:19:34am

Just a quick trip through the NF world and I have need of an acid-bath to get the ugly and stupid off of me.

43 Russkilitlover  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:19:34am
Barnes advocates the downfall of western civilization: ‘The West deserves all it gets. The faster the fools that run the West destroy the West the better.'

Gee. He took the words right out of Obama's mouth.

44 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:19:59am

re: #31 MandyManners

He refers to the group as a valid ‘nationalist’ organization and suggests that they operate as a street force for the BNP.

Is that anything like 0bama's 'Civilian Defense Force'?

45 haakondahl  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:20:20am

re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nope, British Nazi Party fits better and doesn't insult neanderthals

I like the idea of the British Negro Party. Over there, the term doesn't carry the same freight it does in the States, and the mischief is delicious.

46 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:20:39am

re: #44 Fenway_Nation

Is that anything like 0bama's 'Civilian Defense Force'?

I'll not post the link here but, you can find out about the National Front with a quick Google.

47 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:20:45am

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Shoggoth off Alaska IDd as algae

Another government coverup.

/

"What's it all about, Algae?"

/sorry

48 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:21:41am

re: #19 Dark_Falcon

As used here, it means keeping a place or nation of one race or religion. The BNP uses it in a White Nationalist context.

Actually, I see the reason for the confusion -- you're right, the name "Center for Social Cohesion" does sound a little bit like fascist codewords. As far as I know, they're anti-jihad but also strongly anti-fascist.

49 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:23:43am

How closely has Robert Spencer associated himself with the BNP?

50 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:23:52am
51 scottishbuzzsaw  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:23:56am

re: #48 Charles

Actually, I see the reason for the confusion -- you're right, the name does sound a little bit like fascist codewords. As far as I know, they're anti-jihad but also strongly anti-fascist.

Here's their report on the "Virtual Caliphate"...
[Link: www.socialcohesion.co.uk...]

52 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:24:55am

Ignorant assholes.

53 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:27:17am

I just cannot fathom how anyone can think hating Jews is the way to go.

54 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:27:29am
55 Danny  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:27:40am

re: #32 Dianna

OK I get it now. They do appear to be legit. I just find myself instinctively being wary of organizations that tag "social [trendy sociologist buzzword of the day goes here]" onto their names.

56 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:28:02am

Notice on the cover of the report -- that very prominent symbol, the Odin's Cross, that also appears on Vlaams Belang leader Filip DeWinter's bookshelf in that infamous video we posted.

We used to have people here at LGF who tried to argue it was unrelated to European fascism.

57 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:28:30am

re: #49 MandyManners

How closely has Robert Spencer associated himself with the BNP?

Too close for my comfort. Geller's actually praised them, and Spencer and Geller have been at conferences where the BNP is in attendance. Then we have Bodissey and Dymphna who attend them along with Paul Belien.

58 MikeAlv77  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:28:32am

re: #53 MandyManners

I just cannot fathom how anyone can think hating Jews is the way to go.

Stupid people need to blame someone for their problems. So they pick a convienent scape goat. The Jews have a history of people hating them, some are wealthy so obviously they got their wealth through nefarious means cause the stupid can't be to blame for their own problems...

59 Dianna  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:29:11am

re: #55 Danny

OK I get it now. They do appear to be legit. I just find myself instinctively being wary of organizations that tag "social [trendy sociologist buzzword of the day goes here]" onto their names.

You are quite correct to be wary. Just remember, most organizations pick a name that won't instantly arouse hostility.

60 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:29:14am

re: #53 MandyManners

I just cannot fathom how anyone can think hating Jews is the way to go.

It's worked for more than 2,000 years, so why not? Just ask the Philistines, Nazis, Romans, etc.

61 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:29:24am

re: #53 MandyManners

I just cannot fathom how anyone can think hating Jews is the way to go.

I've never gotten it either. Most Jews I've seen tend to be pretty decent folks who like to be left alone.

62 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:29:52am

re: #57 Honorary Yooper

Too close for my comfort. Geller's actually praised them, and Spencer and Geller have been at conferences where the BNP is in attendance. Then we have Bodissey and Dymphna who attend them along with Paul Belien.

Do they not "get" the anti-Semitism?

63 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:29:57am

Why is it so hard to show respect for others? Someone doesn't have to be just like me, talk just like me, and believe just like me for me to have and show respect for them.

64 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:30:38am

I should not have taken a peek into the National Front site. I need a break. bbiaw

65 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:31:10am

re: #62 MandyManners

Do they not "get" the anti-Semitism?

Either they don't get it, or they are themselves. In the case of Belien, Bodissey, Dymphna, Fjordman, and Spencer, it may be some anti-Semitism. In Geller's case, it's just stupidity.

66 Russkilitlover  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:31:12am

re: #56 Charles

Notice on the cover of the report -- that very prominent symbol that also appears on Vlaams Belang leader Filip DeWinter's bookshelf in that infamous video, the Odin's Cross.

We used to have people here at LGF who tried to argue it was unrelated to European fascism.

I never knew its significance. I have that symbol as a pendant that I bought several years ago at a Renaissance Faire - I just thought it was a cool design. I just got up, took it out of the drawer and threw it in the trash. Geez, I actually used to wear that thing a lot.

67 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:31:29am

re: #53 MandyManners

It's the ancient way of thinking that wants to make others out to be dirt so you can be better than them. It doesn't work, but it seems to tempt a lot of people.

68 zombie  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:32:00am

There is the flip side to the racism of the BNP -- and that is the racism of the far-left groups who are the diametric opposite of the BNP. But their kind of racism is more subtle and more patronizing.

The goal of the British far left is to destroy whatever remnants of capitalism and "imperialism" that are still left in England. The theory is that the only way to finally achieve this is in fact to replace native Britons with immigrants from the former Empire. The theory is that, due to their immigrant status and "brown" skin, the new residents will inherently be more revolutionary and anti-Western, and thus will tend to support the far left's goal. Their envisioned final endgame is to have a Britian that is majority non-Briton, and that majority will then vote to dismantle the "old" Britain and usher in a new Britain that operates entirely along the Ken Livingstone/George Galloway/Hugo Chavez model of virulent antipathy toward capitalism and strong support for anti-Western Third World thugocracies.

The problem with the Far Left's vision -- which is also the problem with the BNP's vision -- is that the "non-white" immigrants who flock to Britain for the most part admire British culture and British capitalism, and if anything are less revolutionary than the average native Briton. Both the far left and the BNP assume that the genetic foreignness of the immigrants makes them naturally antipathetic to British culture and society, but that isn't true. The very act of immigration is a filter which pre-selects those who generally admire Britain and want to be a part of it. The true Britain-haters dwelling in the former Empire have little desire to go into the belly of the beast.

The disturbing part is that the BNP's resurgent popularity is based of public awareness of the far left's strategy, and if you aren't thrilled by the prospect of Britain turning into a communist state, you have nowhere to turn. If you're uninformed enough, you turn to the BNP.

That's why they're making a comeback.

69 MikeAlv77  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:32:08am

re: #65 Honorary Yooper

Either they don't get it, or they are themselves. In the case of Belien, Bodissey, Dymphna, Fjordman, and Spencer, it may be some anti-Semitism. In Geller's case, it's just stupidity.

You can't fix stupid... Well you can but they tend to fix themselves...

70 MikeAlv77  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:32:58am

re: #68 zombie

I have always found that far left and far right tend to meet. Its just a big circle versus a line with extremes at each end.

71 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:33:02am

re: #66 Russkilitlover

I never knew its significance. I have that symbol as a pendant that I bought several years ago at a Renaissance Faire - I just thought it was a cool design. I just got up, took it out of the drawer and threw it in the trash. Geez, I actually used to wear that thing a lot.

Is it an actual sun cross/sun wheel as above, or does it have an elongated stem at the bottom? If the latter, it's a Celtic cross as seen in many cemetaries. If the former, then it is unequivically a fascist symbol.

72 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:33:04am

re: #56 Charles

I think the Odin's cross is one of the more popular prison tattoos- although I can't 100% remember the source for that. I don't think there's a gallup poll set aside for inmates on what kind of ink they're getting...

73 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:33:16am

Mornin' folks. Back from work until the uproars are done with my neck! So I can come on here and add my 2cents whenever...Yaaay LGF!

74 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:34:19am
75 mrbaracuda  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:34:37am

re: #68 zombie

a Britian that is majority non-Briton, and that majority will then vote to dismantle the "old" Britain and usher in a new Britain that operates entirely along the Ken Livingstone/George Galloway/Hugo Chavez model

I'll blame you when I have nightmares tonight!
Btw, I left you a comment on your later blog entry to the Holdren stuff.

76 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:34:40am

re: #72 Fenway_Nation

I think the Odin's cross is one of the more popular prison tattoos- although I can't 100% remember the source for that. I don't think there's a gallup poll set aside for inmates on what kind of ink they're getting...

It's a popular symbol for the white gangs (Aryan Nation) in prison.

77 Idle Drifter  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:34:51am

How quickly some people forget history. I could have sworn we fought a bloody worldwide war that ended only around 64 years ago against people who thought they were superior to all races outside their own.

78 Crimsonfisted  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:34:52am

On a thread from the other day, so is Andrew Bostom in the same mix as Spencer and Geller? I missed the memo on that one.

I have learned I can only trust lizards for accurate information and links to the same.

79 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:34:59am

We.....at least we can see the Fascists in plain site.....*sigh*

80 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:35:13am

re: #12 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

*SLAP

Slap shot?

81 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:35:27am

re: #77 Idle Drifter

How quickly some people forget history. I could have sworn we fought a bloody worldwide war that ended only around 64 years ago against people who thought they were superior to all races outside their own.

I seem to recall hatred of Jews was involved in that as well.

82 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:35:32am

re: #78 Crimsonfisted

Yeah....probably a tad more subtle than getting a swastika tattoed in plain sight.

83 Russkilitlover  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:35:44am

re: #71 Honorary Yooper

Is it an actual sun cross/sun wheel as above, or does it have an elongated stem at the bottom? If the latter, it's a Celtic cross as seen in many cemetaries. If the former, then it is unequivically a fascist symbol.

Lemme check...
...
...
...

It's got a longer stem. Whew! Still not keeping it, though. It's lost its charm.

84 MikeAlv77  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:36:41am

re: #77 Idle Drifter

How quickly some people forget history. I could have sworn we fought a bloody worldwide war that ended only around 64 years ago against people who thought they were superior to all races outside their own.

You could say we are currently fighting a war against people who believe their religion is superior to anyone elses....

85 Lincolntf  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:37:26am

re: #84 MikeAlv77

Unitarians?

86 MikeAlv77  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:37:29am

re: #81 EmmmieG

I seem to recall hatred of Jews was involved in that as well.

Hatred of Jews is in the current one... Amazing how the same theme seems to repeat...

87 zombie  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:37:51am

re: #75 mrbaracuda

I'll blame you when I have nightmares tonight!
Btw, I left you a comment on your later blog entry to the Holdren stuff.

I saw that. Thanks.

88 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:38:30am

re: #84 MikeAlv77

You could say we are currently fighting a war against people who believe their religion is superior to anyone elses....

You left off part.

AND they believe they have the right to force others to convert or submit. I think most people like their own religion best (which is why, you know, they belong to it.) The question is whether they can see there is value in other religions and whether they can respect other people for belonging to other religions.

My grandmother did not belong to my religion. I have great respect for her faith and the good she did.

89 HelloDare  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:38:37am
90 mrbaracuda  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:39:22am

Does the BNP have any links to German groups like the NPD (which you could call the successor of the NSDAP) I am not aware of?

91 mrbaracuda  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:39:39am

re: #87 zombie

Oh no no no, I have to thank you! ;)

92 scottishbuzzsaw  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:39:42am

re: #68 zombie

The disturbing part is that the BNP's resurgent popularity is based of public awareness of the far left's strategy, and if you aren't thrilled by the prospect of Britain turning into a communist state, you have nowhere to turn. If you're uninformed enough, you turn to the BNP.

What a recipe for disaster!

93 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:39:56am
94 MikeAlv77  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:40:13am

re: #88 EmmmieG

You are correct. My typing sometimes is faster than my thoughts... thanks.

95 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:40:24am

Hey Charles! Lances' right hand man is out with a busted wrist. Just in on ESPN. Levi somebody.

96 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:40:33am

re: #84 MikeAlv77
Or, you could more accurately - much more accurately say "we are currently fighting a war against people extremists who believe their religion is superior to anyone elses...."

We are NOT, in my opinion, at war with Islam, only with those jihadists who say they think that infidels should be subjugated or murdered.

97 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:41:52am

re: #87 zombie
Hey zombie - I have to leave now I'm afraid. Is there any chance at all that you could e-mail me - my nic is in blue - if so, thanks. If not, that's ok too.

98 mrbaracuda  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:42:01am

re: #96 realwest

Well it's hard to go to war against a book isn't it. Wait a second, didn't that American sniper in Iraq use a Koran for shooting practice..

99 debutaunt  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:42:27am

re: #32 Dianna

This is the site for The Centre for Social Cohesion: Have a look.

Usually, I'd look for their history and mission statement, but I'm summarizing drivel for my living, and don't have time.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

100 3 wood  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:42:27am

OT:

At the British open Tiger Woods is 7 over par with 3 holes left and the cut line is projected at 3 over par.

Woods has 2 double bogeys to his credit today.

See ya Tiger.

101 Rancher  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:42:39am

Why hide what you are? If they do it to get more members to get more power don't they risk losing what they have? Wouldn't it be funny if enough people who bought into the moderate scam actually threw the Nazis out of the party?

102 Idle Drifter  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:42:42am

re: #84 MikeAlv77

You could say we are currently fighting a war against people who believe their religion is superior to anyone elses....

Yes, it's unfortunate that there are those within our societies that try to paint them , the Jihadists, as victims or exclaim they don't understand us.

103 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:43:07am

re: #96 realwest
That is a good point. Extremists of any stripe are to be resisted. The islamic ones right now are the focus of our attention. How long before these neonazi shitheads start blowing shit up?

104 MikeAlv77  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:43:15am

re: #96 realwest

Or, you could more accurately - much more accurately say "we are currently fighting a war against people extremists who believe their religion is superior to anyone elses...."

We are NOT, in my opinion, at war with Islam, only with those jihadists who say they think that infidels should be subjugated or murdered.

I would disagree since I believe (in my opinion, as always) that Islam itself requires it to be superior to all relgions and does not allow for any competition but I don't want to have this degenerate into conversation on that...

The BNP is vile... Simple and straight forward...

105 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:43:18am

re: #92 scottishbuzzsaw

What a recipe for disaster!

Yes, it is. One could go as far as saying that the current crop of Eruo bureaucrats created the environment in which the BNP and related groups can flourish. These groups seemed to pick up traction over the EU Constitution. By not seeing the dangers inherent in this, given Europe's dark past with nationalism, they helped give rise to the next group of dark nationalists.

106 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:43:37am

re: #74 taxfreekiller

There could be a choice.

[Link: www.sarahpac.com...]

[Link: www.thealaskafundtrust.com...]

You will know one way or the other in time, it is up to each of you.

I wouldn't waste my money on her.

107 mrbaracuda  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:44:04am

re: #103 pingjockey

Not long perhaps.

108 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:46:47am

re: #107 mrbaracuda
That is not good. I can see a scenario where some neo nazi blows up a mosque during Friday prayers and all hell literally breaks loose.

109 scottishbuzzsaw  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:46:57am

re: #105 Honorary Yooper

Yes, it is. One could go as far as saying that the current crop of Eruo bureaucrats created the environment in which the BNP and related groups can flourish. These groups seemed to pick up traction over the EU Constitution. By not seeing the dangers inherent in this, given Europe's dark past with nationalism, they helped give rise to the next group of dark nationalists.

Couldn't agree with you more.

110 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:47:31am

Short visit, my meds say...nap time!

111 HelloDare  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:47:47am

Charles,

I believe The Center for Social Cohesion was founded by Douglas Murray. (Wikipedia has him listed at the current director.)

You posted about him here:

Britain Has Neocons? Who Knew? - Update: 'It Is Vital to Have Nothing to Do with Parties Like the Vlaams Belang'

112 philip  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:48:16am

BNP scares me. They get low-information voters hyped up and scared about Semitic people like myself.

113 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:48:55am

re: #112 philip

BNP scares me. They get low-information voters hyped up and scared about Semitic people like myself.

They're the Nazis all over again.

114 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:49:14am
115 MikeAlv77  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:50:02am

re: #114 buzzsawmonkey

Casablanca & Across the Pacific, and Treasure of the Sierra Madre with The African Queen?

African Queen was just on the other day... Great movie...

116 3 wood  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:51:00am

re: #100 3 wood

To follow up, I predict that in his post round comments Mr. Woods will say that he's really happy with how he hit the ball but he could not make any putts. No matter how bad he hits it, he always says that.

117 HelloDare  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:51:54am

re: #111 HelloDare

The barring of Ibrahim el-Moussawi

In March 2009, Douglas Murray and the Centre for Social Cohesion succeeded in barring Ibrahim el-Moussawi, spokesman for terrorist group Hizbollah, from entering the UK. [14]

El-Moussawi had been due to lecture government officials and police on political Islam at a course arranged by the School of Oriental and African Studies. [15]

Murray was highly critical of the prospect that while el-Moussawi was set to be welcomed into the UK, elected Dutch MP Geert Wilders had been barred from entering the country just weeks before.[16] He subsequently wrote to Home Secretary Jacqui Smith warning that he was planning to instruct his lawyers to issue an international arrest warrant against el-Moussawi if he entered the UK.[17]

The Home Office eventually refused el-Moussawi a visa.

Murray called the decision a “welcome development”, but said that “it is a sign of how terrible things are that the UK government could ever have considered that a member of a terrorist group – a man who would not be doing his job properly were he not inciting hatred – could be allowed into the UK to teach government officials and police.”[18]

[edit] Banned from the LSE

In a hugely-criticised decision,[19][20][21][22][23][24][25] the London School of Economics (LSE) banned Murray from campus in January 2009. Murray was set to chair a debate titled 'Islam and Liberalism: Which is the Way Forward?' between Dr Alan Sked and Hamza Andreas Tzortzis. However the LSE decided that, as it was experiencing student protests and significant unrest on campus in the context of Israeli incursion into Gaza, Murray's presence "might provoke further unrest". He was subsequently asked by the university to stay away from campus in the interests of "public safety". [26] Oliver Kamm of The Times, said that the LSE's conduct was "cowardly and unconscionable", while Damian Thompson in the Daily Telegraph called LSE "gutless" and threatened to return the PhD he had earned at the university.[27] Journalist Melanie Phillips called the decision "another victory for the forces of darkness"[28],

118 3 wood  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:52:14am

re: #114 buzzsawmonkey

Casablanca & Across the Pacific, and Treasure of the Sierra Madre with The African Queen?

Along with Patton those are some of my favorite movies.

119 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:53:29am
120 Kenneth  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:54:20am

Gosh, is that an Oden's Cross I see before my eyes?

121 mrbaracuda  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:55:24am

re: #104 MikeAlv77

Something came to mind about this. This book, which was sighted and approved of by Al-Azhar with a letter saying "[...] we certify that the above-mentioned translation [ie the book] corresponds to the Arabic original and conforms to the practice and faith of the orthodox Sunni Community (Ahl al-Sunna wa al-Jama'a). There is no objection to printing it and circulating it. [...]" says later on basically that there are no valid religions other than Islam anymore and that what we have as Christianity and Judaism are only perverted offshoots from "the original" and thus invalid. I presume you know about the whole dhimmi stuff. This aforementioned view in my opinion negates that, so there is a even worse problem with orthodox Sunni Islam than just the "normal" supremacy you would expect.

122 Kenneth  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:57:15am

re: #48 Charles

Here's there staff:

Director: Douglas Murray
Douglas Murray is a bestselling author and political commentator. He regularly appears in the British and foreign press and media. A columnist for Standpoint magazine, he writes regularly a variety of other publications, including the Spectator. Murray appears across the British and foreign broadcast media. He is the co-author of Hate on the State: How British Libraries encourage Islamic Extremism and Victims of Intimidation: Freedom of Speech within Europe's Muslim Communities.

Researcher: Alexander Meleagrou-Hitchens
Alexander Meleagrou-Hitchens was formerly a Research Fellow in Security and Terrorism at Policy Exchange. He took his BA in Classics at King’s College London and an MA in Intelligence and Security Studies at the University of Brunel.

Researcher: Hannah Stuart
Hannah Stuart is the co-author of Islam on Campus: A survey of UK student opinions. She holds a BA in English Literature from the University of Bristol and an MA in International Studies and Diplomacy from the School of Oriental and African Studies.

Researcher: Houriya Ahmed
Houriya Ahmed completed her BA in Anthropology and Law at the London School of Economics, and then took an MA in International Studies and Diplomacy at the School of Oriental and African Studies.

Researcher: Robin Simcox
Robin Simcox is a Section Director and columnist for the Henry Jackson Society. He took his BA in History at the University of Leeds, including a year in Newcastle, Australia, and an MSc in U.S. Foreign Policy from the Institute for the Study of the Americas at the University of London.

They look pretty well informed and balanced.

123 MikeAlv77  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:57:40am

re: #121 mrbaracuda

I have read excerpts from it but not the whole thing. So, yes I did know that... Thanks.

124 HelloDare  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:59:55am

There are many good videos of Douglas Murray on YouTube mixed in with videos of Douglas Murray the hockey player.

125 cagney  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:02:21am

re: #117 HelloDare

I had made a post mistaking it for the UK government policy of Social Cohesion which replaced their policy of multiculturalism (on googling for further info I believe it is now called Community Cohesion, they change their policies and hype so much it's hard to keep track) .

When I heard 'Independent think tanks' the alarm bells started ringing as in the UK, these are usually UK Labour government funded bodies praising UK Labour government policies. From the comments on here, they sound ok and especially from your comment about getting banned from the LSE, which has close link with Labour, they get my thumbs up.

126 mrbaracuda  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:06:29am

re: #123 MikeAlv77

It's an interesting book which I can only recommend it if you want to have a comprehensive look into (mainly Shafi, but differences are commented on) Islamic jurisprudence. It's pretty dry stuff though.

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:06:57am

re: #5 Ringo the Gringo

BNP = The British Neanderthal Party.

I wonder if Neanderthals are indigenous enough for them?

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:08:13am

re: #11 Dark_Falcon

The poison tree bred by Adolf Hitler and planted in England by Oswald Mosley continues to bear its ill fruit.

I hate UK Nazis!

God willing, the same British spirit that inspired Whitchapel folks to turn out to challenge Moseley's minions is still alive as well.

129 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:09:28am

re: #68 zombie

The goal of the British far left is to destroy whatever remnants of capitalism and "imperialism" that are still left in England.

The far left in England is very small, Socialist Labour for instance got 1,1% of the votes in the last European elections (the BNP got 6,2%), the left-wing group No2EU go 1%. That said, it is hardly a surprise that the British hard left is anti-capitalist. Marxism abounds.

However, you note:

The theory is that the only way to finally achieve this is in fact to replace native Britons with immigrants from the former Empire. The theory is that, due to their immigrant status and "brown" skin, the new residents will inherently be more revolutionary and anti-Western, and thus will tend to support the far left's goal.

I have little knowledge of the British far left, but I do know the Norwegian far left. In fact, I used to be far left (and by American standards, I am probably still quite a moonbat). I've heard lots of similar claims in the Norwegian debate, but I have never been able to substantiate them.

The Norwegian far left is decidedly anti-American, it is at times anti-Semitic, it is mostly pro-immigration and it is often anti-democratic (sometimes directly and outspokenly so, mostly indirectly). I have never seen political texts of the far left actually stating such a goal, or even going in the direction of such a goal.

In fact, the far left in Norway includes people with a strong interest of "folkish" elements, and even includes people who considers the use of Dano-Norwegian (bokmål) as leftovers from Danish "imperialism", opting instead for the socalled Neo-Norwegian (nynorsk), which was created in the 1800s based on dialects.

As I am currently doing research on a book on left-wing extremism, I would be happy to see any concrete references to back up your claim here.

130 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:16:44am

re: #66 Russkilitlover

I never knew its significance. I have that symbol as a pendant that I bought several years ago at a Renaissance Faire - I just thought it was a cool design. I just got up, took it out of the drawer and threw it in the trash. Geez, I actually used to wear that thing a lot.

It's also used extensively in Irish and Scottish church art, which is probably where the manufacturer took it from. Sometimes described as a "Celtic Cross". I have a brooch in that pattern, a gift from my SIL. I assume people can tell I'm not a BNP member because it has pretty knotwork patterns on it, and a pink stone.

It's an ancient and lovely symbol, and I am loathe to surrender it to these unpleasant people.

131 haakondahl  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:20:17am

re: #68 zombie

There is the flip side to the racism of the BNP -- and that is the racism of the far-left groups who are the diametric opposite of the BNP. But their kind of racism is more subtle and more patronizing.

[snip]

The disturbing part is that the BNP's resurgent popularity is based of public awareness of the far left's strategy, and if you aren't thrilled by the prospect of Britain turning into a communist state, you have nowhere to turn. If you're uninformed enough, you turn to the BNP.

That's why they're making a comeback.

Agreed. And rather than play a pointless game of who-went-crazy-first, arithmetically or geometrically, we ought to look at this from a calculus point of view, where an increase in craziness on one side drives an increase in craziness on the other instantaneously. Let's say that there are moderating influences as well, but that operate too slowly to cope with rapid expansions, or are for some reason now operating at less strength. Eventually we will bust into a domain with a different dominating moderator, and be quite unhappy--it's Leto or the fire.
All of this to say that attacking craziness on one side is equivalent to attacking craziness on the other. This is the war of the decent vs. the monstrous.

132 mrbaracuda  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:21:12am

re: #129 oslogin

In fact, the far left in Norway includes people with a strong interest of "folkish" elements, and even includes people who considers the use of Dano-Norwegian (bokmål) as leftovers from Danish "imperialism", opting instead for the socalled Neo-Norwegian (nynorsk), which was created in the 1800s based on dialects.

[...] I would be happy to see any concrete references to back up your claim here.

Sounds like you provided yourself with one there if you think about it a little more. If I understood this correctly, it sounds to me as if they're trying to rid their society from what you refer to as Danish "imperialism" by going back to a language that existed before, which isn't the end of the story.

Now, if you "import" different non "Danish imperalistic" notions and ideas of a society and basically tell them "Do what you want and retain anything you'd like from your home country" it aids the leftists' "endgame", too, doesn't it?

133 haakondahl  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:24:17am

re: #108 pingjockey

That is not good. I can see a scenario where some neo nazi blows up a mosque during Friday prayers and all hell literally breaks loose.

There was a confusing scenario like this maybe a month or two ago, in which somebody tried to frame the other guy. I forget which it was, but two guys were led off in cuffs. London, I believe, UK for sure.

134 shortshrift  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:26:54am

re: #68 zombie

"...the "non-white" immigrants who flock to Britain for the most part admire British culture and British capitalism, and if anything are less revolutionary than the average native Briton. "

By "British culture", do you mean the tradition of tolerance, or (relatively) good governance? By "British capitalism", do you mean the spirit of free enterprise?
I am sure that many Commonwealth and South Asian immigrants of a generation or two ago did come for the opportunity to make good free from oppression. Their offspring, though, are very likely - along with their "native" counterparts - to look to government to take the from cradle to grave. Additionally, especially among Muslims, there is a growing inward-looking tendency, requiring separation (including Sharia family courts) of their culture from the "mainstream" . Second, third and fourth wives are brought in and placed on welfare. In this sense, that it is for government support, not for good governance supporting freedom, that many immigrants come, the revolution has already happened.
The BNP stands for a traditional aspect of British culture - xenophobic, anti-women, antisemitic, anti-free enterprise - that permeates all classes, but particularly the top and bottom. The middle class scorned nationalism, but embraced socialism. The institutions that upheld a different culture - individualism, reward for work, robust but blind justice - were dismantled.
Britain is sordid. The fact that there BNP members can be elected is proof of the socialist pudding. Be warned, America.

135 mrbaracuda  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:27:16am

re: #133 haakondahl

This one?

136 poteen  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:32:59am

re: #130 SanFranciscoZionist

My Grandfathers are buried under Celtic crosses. It's meaning to me is entirely different than the white supremists. Their theft of a ubiquitous symbol used in many cultures angers me. It also angers me that some people think that it's only use is by 'Nazis".
Bottom line-- I'll take away the VB symbol before those punks take it away from my gramps.

137 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:33:53am

re: #132 mrbaracuda

Perhaps I was being somewhat unclear. The attitude towards "Danish imperialism" (which belongs to a small subset of the Norwegian far left) has nothing to do with 'notions' or 'ideas' as such; it is a linguistic question.

This normally takes hours to explain to non-Norwegians, but essentially we have two Norwegian languages that are very similar to eachother: one is bokmål, which was based upon the language of the upper class living in cities, and strongly influenced by Danish (called Dano-Norwegian in English); the other is nynorsk, which was created through a national romantic effort and based on (certain) dialects. This variant lies closer to Swedish (and somewhat closer to Old Norse, Icelandic etc).

(See: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Supporting nynorsk as the only 'true' Norwegian, as some of these people do, is - in some ways - very nationalist or nativist, rather the opposite of what zombie mentions. The anti-Danish (language) attitude has nothing to do with 'importing' non 'Danish-imperialistic' ideals; unless those ideals are the Icelandic ideals of linguistic purity, that is.

Also, the Norwegian far left (and the British far left, too, I believe) is strongly against the European Union; focusing on the need for "national independence" etc. This anti-EU-attitude is something the Norwegian and British far left share with many of the European far right parties (whether they are moderate nationalist or outright fascist).

What I would like to see is ideological texts that actually spell out an "endgame" of the sort mentioned here.

138 mrbaracuda  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:40:51am

re: #136 poteen

It might interest you that there is a small German subculture which is trying to "take it back" (it being symbols, their meaning etc.) from the (neo-)Nazis. I saw it the first time in a movie called "Roots Germania".

139 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:41:00am
140 mrbaracuda  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:43:48am

re: #137 oslogin

Thanks for clearing that up some more. Sounds like they're national socialists. ;)

141 mrbaracuda  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:51:30am

re: #136 poteen

I'm just watching the scene in the movie again and they appear to be based around the "Externsteine", where they meet for midsummer and have some fun, heh.

142 haakondahl  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 12:04:55pm

re: #135 mrbaracuda

This one?

Nope, sorry.

143 Render  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 12:28:48pm

re: #56 Charles

You get the email I sent?

COMM
CHECK,
R

144 JHW  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 12:40:52pm

re: #72 Fenway_Nation

Here ya go, a very extensive database of gang symbolism, tattoos and artwork. The Odin cross is very conspicuous, especially in the KKK related stuff. The Celtic cross on the other hand, is absent as far as I can tell.
Idaho Gangs


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