Ron Paul: Troofer?

US News • Views: 4,965

An idiot from a “9/11 Truth” group cornered Ron Paul recently and asked why he hasn’t “come out about the truth about 9/11.”

Paul’s answer: he has too much to do, and he can’t handle the controversy.

This is the guy whose influence is growing in the GOP, to the point where all 178 Republican members of the House have signed as cosponsors on his bill to audit the Federal Reserve.

Youtube Video

Troofer: Can I ask you a question? OK… If we’re going to audit the Fed, don’t we also have to audit the IMF, given they’re connected?

Ron Paul: Well they’re not under the Fed. But, they, they, what you’ll do is expose connections. We have a, a document that shows that the Federal Reserve went to the IMF, made the IMF pay interest to a private bank that made a loan and they were going broke. So, it’s very much involved. The audit … you would dig up a lot of shenanigans because that’s one thing they don’t want us to know is all their arrangements with foreign governments, foreign banks and international banking organizations. We wouldn’t audit everything the IMF does, but every time the IMF had a dealings with the Federal Reserve, we would have that.

Troofer: OK and one more thing. Why don’t you come out about the truth about 9/11?

[Pause…]

Ron Paul: Because I can’t handle the controversy. I have the IIF, the Federal Reserve to deal with, and the IRS to deal with. Because, uh, no I just have work— too many things on my plate. Uh, because, uh, I just have too much to do.

Troofer: All right, thank you sir. Thank you very much.

Ron Paul: OK. OK.

(Hat tip: Adam Holland.)

Jump to bottom

367 comments
1 Idle Drifter  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:24:16am

Well color me surprised if he does slip up or comes out and says “9/11 was an inside job!”

///

No, I wouldn’t be surprised.

2 swamprat  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:24:27am

RonPaul!

TBoonePickens for vice!

/

3 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:27:00am

This is the age of the conspiracy theory; whole governments, (Iran, Venezuela, North Korea) and industries, are based on it. Batshit, howling at the moon crazy is the wave of the future.

4 jcm  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:27:20am

Troofer: Ok and one last thing. Why don’t you come out about the truth about 9/11?

Appropriately response:

DON’T BE AN IDIOT! GET A JOB!

5 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:27:32am

Shocka.

6 Mithrax  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:27:50am

re: #4 jcm

Troofer: Ok and one last thing. Why don’t you come out about the truth about 9/11?

Appropriately response:

DON’T BE AN IDIOT! GET A JOB!

Actually, could have some fun with that….

“Aliens did it”

7 jaunte  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:30:30am

Foreign banks! AAAAAEEEEIIII!

8 [deleted]  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:30:30am
9 Shug  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:30:45am

Ron Paul’s sudden massive influence with the GOP is just another conspiracy theory. I don’t believe hs is taken seriously in teh GOP. One bill does not make him king

the guy is a joke.
have we forgotten the GOP presidential debates? He was laughed at ( rightly so ) by the legitimate candidates.

10 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:31:56am
This is the guy whose influence is increasing in the GOP,

That’s unfortunate - but understandable. Lots of times when we talk about the European facsist groups (BNP, BP, etc), who proportedly support Israel, it is often noted that no mainstream politician/party has the balls to take on the legitimate concerns of their respective societies regarding cultural implosion, thus ceding the field to the bad guys.

I think the same thing is happening with Ron Paul. The Repubs let Bush get away with fiscal irresponsibilty and even when they were in the majority, no one was - or tried - to rein in Barney Frank, et. al.

I think the dynamics are similar. Good guys don’t screw up some courage, bad guys just screw everybody.

11 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:32:34am

[Link: www.popularmechanics.com…]
[Link: www.debunking911.com…]
[Link: www.debunk911myths.org…]
[Link: screwloosechange.blogspot.com…]

Try that for starters !luaPnoR.

12 AuntAcid  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:32:35am

re: #3 Shiplord Kirel

“This is the dawning of the age of Conspiracy
The age of Conspiracy
Conspiracy!
Conspiracy!”

13 jcm  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:33:10am

re: #11 BigPapa

[Link: www.popularmechanics.com…]
[Link: www.debunking911.com…]
[Link: www.debunk911myths.org…]
[Link: screwloosechange.blogspot.com…]

Try that for starters !luaPnoR.

They’re part of the conspiracy dude!

////

14 Salo  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:33:47am

I feel dirty for agreeing withe RP, but auditing the Fed is still a good idea.

15 jcm  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:34:32am

re: #11 BigPapa

[Link: www.popularmechanics.com…]
[Link: www.debunking911.com…]
[Link: www.debunk911myths.org…]
[Link: screwloosechange.blogspot.com…]

Try that for starters !luaPnoR.

What about this! Huh! Can you answer SCIENCE!

//////////////////

16 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:35:46am

Conspiracy theories are fundamentally authoritarian in nature, designed to substitute the proponent’s personal authority for a strawman that represents a perceived form of rival authority.
It is no accident that they are a crucial component of every modern form of depotism, from the Czars to Hitler to Hugo Chavez.
Their prevalence is plainly related to the tyrannical authority of mass media in the cultural realm, since present-day conspiracy theories exploit media authority and rely on the ignorance, short attention span, and sound-bite pidgin logic propagated by mass media.
The internet is a vector for conspiracy theories, obviously, but it has not proven to be the ultimate resource that conspiracy profiteers had hoped in the early days. This is because, unlike the mass media, the ‘net can and does give equal voice to skeptics, doubters and opponents.

17 keithgabryelski  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:36:03am

re: #1 Idle Drifter

Well color me surprised if he does slip up or comes out and says “9/11 was an inside job!”

I haven’t heard anything Ron Paul has said that makes me think he is a truther.

I think he is an opportunist (not that THAT is always a problem) and his response outs him as someone who will take anyone’s support, this seems to be the case with the white supremacists and anti-Semites we see in his national support structure.

It’s tough to get a sense of the man when he doesn’t come out aggressively against turkeys that are clearly fascists and support his campaign with time and money.

Then again, maybe it isn’t tough at all.

18 jcm  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:36:22am

re: #14 Salo

I feel dirty for agreeing withe RP, but auditing the Fed is still a good idea.

It might be a good idea, but Laup Nor contaminates every thing he touches. Any hopes of reforming the Fed went out the window as soon as a loony toon suggested it.

19 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:37:01am

re: #15 jcm

Oh yeah, forgot about that one. Classic, makes me laugh every time.
A Thomas Dolby moment?

Youtube Video
20 Wendya  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:38:11am

re: #18 jcm

Any hopes of reforming the Fed went out the window as soon as a loony toon suggested it.

If that’s the position we take, we’re as batshit crazy as he is.

21 Idle Drifter  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:39:03am

re: #15 jcm

I couldn’t spend too much time there the vein in my forehead would’ve gone pop!

22 jaunte  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:39:17am

Too bad fiscal conservatism has gotten mixed in with racism and insanity.

Since he introduced the Federal Reserve Transparency Act of 2009, he has locked in the support of a majority of the Republican conference as well as 13 Democrats, for a bill that would mandate an “audit of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal reserve banks” before the end of 2010 to reveal how the board makes it decisions and moves around money. “As Congressman Paul pointed [out] many times,” said freshman Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.) after co-sponsoring the bill, “the Federal Reserve should have come clean with the American people a long time ago. The Fed is disbursing trillions of dollars and the taxpayers have a right to know who is getting it.”

It’s been a rapid rise for an idea that, only months ago, was located firmly in the political fringe. The John Birch Society, the far-right group that Paul has often defended from media criticism, was one of the first groups to encourage members to contact their members of Congress to support an audit of the Fed. Paul’s own coalition, the Campaign for Liberty, has engaged in a months-long grassroots campaign for the bill, something that Paul credited for a surge in support unlike anything he’s introduced in his second stint in Congress.
[Link: washingtonindependent.com…]

23 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:39:18am

The Paulian Nirthers are going to try Obama for treason….
Three military officers charge Obama with Treason. (via google search)

Commander Walter Fitzpatrick (Ret.) was the first Officer to charge Obama with Treason. Today, two additional Officers have signed charges of Treason against Obama, and more are sure to follow. Additionally, Carl Swensson will be soliciting for we, “The People,” as civilians to charge Obama with Treason. The Citizen Grand Jury will serve these charges to every member of Congress on August 2-5 such that there will not be a single congressman or woman who can stand behind a defense that they were not informed. The Citizen Grand Jury is working along with Gerry Donaldson ( [Link: www.drawaline(dot)org…] ) to hold elected officials accountable to we, The People.

Check out Carl Swensson’s site ( [Link: www.riseupforamerica(dot)com…] ) to get the most current updates on the status of Treason charges to be served to Congress on August 2-5. In addition, Carl is assisting others across the country in setting up Grand Juries regarding Obama’s eligibility to serve as President.

24 keithgabryelski  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:40:08am

re: #18 jcm

It might be a good idea, but Laup Nor contaminates every thing he touches. Any hopes of reforming the Fed went out the window as soon as a loony toon suggested it.

It’s interesting to note that not one bill Ron Paul has authored has become law. He has presented many, all but five (if I recall correctly) never got out of committee.

He just isn’t a leader for anyone but people who are apt to scream “ROOOOOOOOONNNNN PPPPPPPAAAUUUUULLLLL” at 2am in city parks around the nation.

25 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:40:54am

re: #16 Shiplord Kirel

Conspiracy theories are fundamentally authoritarian in nature, designed to substitute the proponent’s personal authority for a strawman that represents a perceived form of rival authority.

LGF’s Rampant Rationalist nails it again. It’s the Uber Trump Card, used to cut any reason off at the knees.

26 Shug  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:42:04am

re: #18 jcm

It might be a good idea, but Laup Nor contaminates every thing he touches. Any hopes of reforming the Fed went out the window as soon as a loony toon suggested it.

How is the minority party even setting an agenda?

last time I checked, the GOP is powerless at the moment

I fear Nancy Pelisi a hell of a lot more at the moment than Ron Paul.

expose him. ridicule him. I’m down with that.

but he ain’t the boogeyman

.

27 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:42:14am

re: #9 Shug

Ron Paul’s sudden massive influence with the GOP is just another conspiracy theory. I don’t believe hs is taken seriously in teh GOP.

Sorry, but you’re wrong. I’ve posted several articles showing that it’s no conspiracy theory — Ron Paul’s influence definitely is growing in the GOP.

28 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:43:26am

I think we should start a rumor that luaPnoR is a Jewish banker connected to the IMF and the Bush Family.

29 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:43:28am

re: #22 jaunte

Too bad fiscal conservatism has gotten mixed in with racism and insanity.

I think the problem goes a little beyond that. The Tea Parties ( which were the conduit for this crap) were never about “real” fiscal responsibility. It was about pushing fictional “John Galt” inspired economics. Ron Paul’s economic quackery was an easy fit. This whole thing has been an amazing missed opportunity.

30 Shug  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:44:01am

re: #27 Charles

Sorry, but you’re wrong. I’ve posted several articles showing that it’s no conspiracy theory — Ron Paul’s influence definitely is growing in the GOP.


I think it’s a matter of degree of influence.
I agree that his influence has increased, but he is far far far from leading the party and I just don’t envision a time when Ron Paul is going to be setting the republican agenda.

time will tell, but that’s my belief

31 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:44:16am

Adam Holland, the hat-tipee, links to a cache of the site of the troofers who put this on YouTube. There one can find this analysis:

….I guess you could you could say that Paul could be implying that the truth of 9/11 is that we were attacked because of our foreign policy and government incompetence, but that doesn’t make sense since he has already said those things quite publicly. So, Paul, in saying why he won’t come out about the truth about 9/11 looks to be clearly implying that 9/11 was an inside job, but that he just can’t handle the controversy involved in saying it. However, you might want to prepare yourself for the coming controversy Representative Paul, because it sounds like you just did.

This is a similar argument to that put forth by alleged progressives who avoid dealing with the evidence of 9/11 by saying “we need to stop the war, investigate torture and it is a distraction” or “we can’t handle all these things at once.” No need to handle all these things, just admit that reality is reality, 9/11 was a black op and the WTC with our fellow human beings inside were blown up, and then we all can take it from there, all important issues included.

Although I am thoroughly unsatisfied and disturbed by your answer, I appreciate your honesty this time around Representative Paul.

[emphasis added]

32 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:45:19am

re: #27 Charles

Sorry, but you’re wrong. I’ve posted several articles showing that it’s no conspiracy theory — Ron Paul’s influence definitely is growing in the GOP.

It may just be anecdotal, but I don’t know any Republicans that give a hoot about Ron Paul.

33 Ojoe  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:45:31am

Screw both major parties.

The Republicans sell out to big business.

The Democrats aggravate divisions in the body politic to get power, then they sell out to big business.

They both gerrymander safe districts so they can run the country like their private club, running it into the ground as even the foolish now can see.

And they are both now possessed by the demon of their own extremists.


Check out the modern Whig party as a sensible place for the sensible citizen.

34 realwest  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:45:53am

re: #23 Killgore Trout
Huh. Your first link is to a Ron Paul website and IE won’t connect to the other two.
You sure you have those other two copied and pasted correctly?

35 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:46:07am

re: #30 Shug

I agree that it’s unlikely that RP will become the defacto leader of the party but his ideas are the real problem and they’re becoming more mainstream as time goes by. Also there are a slew of new young candidates entering GOP politics who are mimicking his ideas. This is a growing problem.

36 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:46:08am

re: #30 Shug

I think it’s a matter of degree of influence.
I agree that his influence has increased, but he is far far far from leading the party and I just don’t envision a time when Ron Paul is going to be setting the republican agenda.

What would qualify as “setting the republican agenda,” if not getting unanimous GOP support for his Fed bill?

37 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:46:17am

Paul/Franken ‘12!

They can’t be much worse than Obama/Biden.

38 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:47:33am

re: #34 realwest

Hmmmm, bummer. I thought I broke up those links enough that they wouldn’t be posted as links. My bad.

39 Shug  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:48:12am

re: #36 Charles

What would qualify as “setting the republican agenda,” if not getting unanimous GOP support for his Fed bill?

when I see him as the keynote speaker at the next GOP convention, I will raise the white flag.

40 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:48:25am

re: #27 Charles

Sorry, but you’re wrong. I’ve posted several articles showing that it’s no conspiracy theory — Ron Paul’s influence definitely is growing in the GOP.

I will back Charles up on that.

Now that Iraq is off the table (Obama now owns it) many see that Ron Paul is the whole package. He was an outsider in the last cycle because he wasn’t pro war. Now there are many that want to pin the continuation of the war and the escalation in Afghanistan on Obama and turn the tables.

Uncle Ron helps facilitate that.

One more reason I am happy to be out of the GOP.

41 realwest  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:49:20am

re: #30 Shug
My belief, too. He’s just too stupid for any major Republican figures to back him. He is something of a genius when it comes to raising money, however, but as you said, during the primaries he was LAUGHED AT by other candidates.
And I haven’t read the bill that calls for an audit of the Fed, but in principle I don’t object to it at all. As a practical matter, however, I think it’s impossible to actually “audit” the Fed.

42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:50:16am

I never met Rep. Ron Paul in person, but, I’ve always imagined he smells like a troofer.

43 Scion9  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:51:20am

re: #29 Killgore Trout

From my experience the Paulians are opposed to the Randian ‘Captains of Industry’ vision of Capitalism, decrying it as Corporatism (likening modern American companies to the British East India Co.) and tainted by central banking.

44 iceweasel  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:51:37am

re: #41 realwest

My belief, too. He’s just too stupid for any major Republican figures to back him. He is something of a genius when it comes to raising money, however, but as you said, during the primaries he was LAUGHED AT by other candidates..

*cough* PALIN. *cough*

45 realwest  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:51:41am

re: #39 Shug

when I see him as the keynote speaker at the next GOP convention, I will raise the white flag.

Well actually, if Ron Paul should ever win a primary I’d start to worry - seriously worry.

46 realwest  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:52:18am

re: #44 iceweasel

*cough* PALIN. *cough*


Why for the cough?

47 Rexatosis  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:52:23am

The reason Rep. Paul’s call to audit the Federal Reserve has gained traction is due to the failure of TARP I and II to do what they were supposed to do. TARP I was conceived by the FED (representing Wall Street) and the Treasury to buy up toxic assets, it has essentially morphed into a government buying spree. The FED and Treasury basically lied to Congress and enough of Congress is POed enough to grab the most available stick (Paul’s bill) to threaten the FED with it. (see Sec. Paulson’s testimony this past week) This has little to do with Paul’s position in the GOP or power in Congress it is just that Paul has the right bill at the right time to be used for this purpose.

48 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:52:59am

re: #42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I never met Rep. Ron Paul in person, but, I’ve always imagined he smells like a troofer.

He’s a good friend of mine, he smell like eggplant.

49 lurking faith  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:53:14am

re: #45 realwest

Well actually, if Ron Paul should ever win a primary I’d start to worry - seriously worry.


If Ron Paul should ever win a primary, I’d have to hold my nose and vote for the Democrat.

50 davinvalkri  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:53:39am

re: #16 Shiplord Kirel

Fundamentally authoritarian? Probably right, but maybe they’re also fundamentally immature; the belief that, say, nineteen guys can’t do what we saw, so there must be some explanation involving powers beyond my control.

51 keithgabryelski  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:53:41am

re: #30 Shug

I think it’s a matter of degree of influence [ron paul has].

A few things to note:

1) the republican party shrunk after the last two election cycles. Ron’s increase in influence could partially be associated with the concentration of Ron Paul supporters that wouldn’t leave the party.

2) The republican party has been courting tea-baggers into the party, which I believe have a concentration of RP supporters.

3) His bill isn’t a bad one.

52 realwest  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:54:01am

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

He’s a good friend of mine, he smell like eggplant.


Geez Walter don’t talk like that, FBV will eat it up!
/

53 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:54:31am

re: #25 BigPapa

LGF’s Rampant Rationalist nails it again. It’s the Uber Trump Card, used to cut any reason off at the knees.

Ooooh! “Rampant Rationalist” I like that, a lot.

Many thanks, Papa!

54 realwest  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:55:02am

re: #49 lurking faith
Geez, you sure make it tough - Obama or Paul? Obama or Paul?
Decisions, decisions!

55 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:55:33am

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

He’s a good friend of mine, he smell like eggplant.

Figured he’d smell like cheese and shame.

56 Ojoe  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:56:56am

re: #49 lurking faith

No more nose holding!
Dump both major parties!
It it anyone’s idea of a great country, to have to hold their nose at every election?

To hell with that.

57 DistantThunder  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:57:12am

I don’t understand why any other republican hasn’t written a similar bill. Has it not occurred to them that there is a major lack of oversight issue with the Fed? Are they just afraid? Maybe they want Uncle Ron to take the heat. Frankly, the more I try to understand politicians, the crazier I feel.

58 realwest  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:58:12am

re: #55 Wyatt Earp
Hey howdy Wyatt! How are you today?

59 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:58:28am

re: #47 Rexatosis

updinged ya!

This has little to do with Paul’s position in the GOP or power in Congress it is just that Paul has the right bill at the right time to be used for this purpose.

Haven’t seen the bill, so I don’t know if it’s a good idea or not. But I agree it has nothing to do with Paul’s influence but more with TARP (and Paulson and Geitner). I would also like to point out that a lot of horse trading goes on with this stuff. I’llvote your bill out, you vote my bill out.

Hell, many times people who helped vote a bill out of committee don’t actually vote for it on the floor. Gotta pick your battles.

60 DistantThunder  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:58:39am

re: #33 Ojoe

Screw both major parties.

The Republicans sell out to big business.

The Democrats aggravate divisions in the body politic to get power, then they sell out to big business.

They both gerrymander safe districts so they can run the country like their private club, running it into the ground as even the foolish now can see.

And they are both now possessed by the demon of their own extremists.

Check out the modern Whig party as a sensible place for the sensible citizen.

It’s all about a-whoring for money….

61 yenta-fada  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:59:49am

re: #14 Salo

I feel dirty for agreeing withe RP, but auditing the Fed is still a good idea.

The U.S. dollar has lost something like 93% of its value since 1913 when the Fed was created in a sneaky manner. William Grieder has an interesting book that has been out for a few years called “Who Will Tell the People”. For such a dry subject, he manages to grip the reader. Well, this reader. It was Alan Greenspan’s job to ‘take away the punchbowl’ at the party with sound financial policy. Instead, he kept filling it with low interest rates and ridiculously easy credit creation. Ben Bernanke was hamstrung by these policies and is now between a rock and a hard place.

62 dapperdave  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:00:06am

No surprise here, what next an aluminium foil suit for this guy?

63 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:00:16am

re: #27 Charles

Sorry, but you’re wrong. I’ve posted several articles showing that it’s no conspiracy theory — Ron Paul’s influence definitely is growing in the GOP.

The GOP establishment is afraid of Paul but he seems to be everywhere among the grassroots. It’s hard to quantify but Paulism could already be the main rival to the religious/socon faction for the loyalty of the rank and file. Opportunists further up the food chain are no doubt taking note as well.

64 realwest  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:00:49am

re: #57 DistantThunder
Well I suspect that no other Republican has cause they figure Paul’s bill will do for now.

What I’d like to see is the IRS being audited! How the hell did so many of President Obama’s choices have tax “problems” that went back in some cases for years and not get their asses chewed by the IRS?

65 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:02:00am

re: #58 realwest

Hey howdy Wyatt! How are you today?

Good as can be, Real. I’d be better, though, if Lance were in the lead at the Tour, and not 4th.

66 realwest  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:02:01am

re: #63 Shiplord Kirel
“Opportunists further up the food chain are no doubt taking note as well.”
You Betcha!

67 debutaunt  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:02:28am

To me, Ron Paul has a fish sticky kind of fragrance.

68 jcm  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:02:35am

re: #61 yenta-fada

The fed “chases” market, trying to correct it. Which IMHO a fatal flaw.

69 realwest  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:02:39am

re: #65 Wyatt Earp
Huh, at his age I’m surprised he’s fourth! How far behind the leader is he?

70 [deleted]  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:02:42am
71 Wendya  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:03:10am

This particular bill actually has quite a few (D) cosponsors as well.

[Link: www.govtrack.us…]

Total co-sponsors: 271. Number of republicans in congress: 178.

I guess that means Ron Paul has infiltrated the democrats and started his takeover of them as well. //

72 Rexatosis  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:03:45am

RE # 57 DistantThunder

Prior to TARP I and II the only ones advocating more oversight for the Federal Reserve system were Ron Paul and the return to the Gold Standard fringe, and socialists who want to use the system for their own end, and the Ghost of Andrew Jackson.

73 realwest  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:03:48am

re: #70 MikeySDCA

The IRS audit rate has been negligible since the Reagan years.


By that you mean, I guess, that the IRS doesn’t “do” audits anymore (or very few)?
Why is that, do you know?

74 lurking faith  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:04:30am

re: #54 realwest

Geez, you sure make it tough - Obama or Paul? Obama or Paul?
Decisions, decisions!

Me? You’re the one who postulated RP winning a primary; I just thought about what to do if that happened.
*shudder*

75 keithgabryelski  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:04:55am

re: #63 Shiplord Kirel

The GOP establishment is afraid of Paul but he seems to be everywhere among the grassroots. It’s hard to quantify but Paulism could already be the main rival to the religious/socon faction for the loyalty of the rank and file. Opportunists further up the food chain are no doubt taking note as well.

they are NOT. Ron Paul is his own worse enemy and everyone that works with him knows that’s that case.

He can gather a small bit of support but that just divides conservatives (or those that self-describe as such).

The best he does is present a voting booth /dev/null lever.

76 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:05:15am

re: #66 realwest

“Opportunists further up the food chain are no doubt taking note as well.”
You Betcha!

I regret that I have but one upding to give for that superbly succinct snark.

77 [deleted]  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:05:46am
79 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:06:47am

re: #69 realwest

Huh, at his age I’m surprised he’s fourth! How far behind the leader is he?

Only 8 seconds, but there are only 8 days left. He needs to tear it up in the mountains this week. At 37, it’s awesome he is so close.

80 realwest  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:06:55am

re: #76 Shiplord Kirel
Thank you kind sir! I was wondering if anyone would catch that snark!

81 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:07:39am

I found the text of the bill

HR 1207

Doesn’t say much

To amend title 31, United States Code, to reform the manner in which the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System is audited by the Comptroller General of the United States and the manner in which such audits are reported, and for other purposes.


IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

February 26, 2009
Mr. PAUL (for himself, Mr. KAGEN, Mrs. BACHMANN, Mr. BARTLETT, Mr. JONES, Mr. REHBERG, Mr. POSEY, Mr. BROUN of Georgia, Mr. POE of Texas, Mr. BURTON of Indiana, Mr. ABERCROMBIE, and Ms. WOOLSEY) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Financial Services


————————————————————————————————————————


A BILL
To amend title 31, United States Code, to reform the manner in which the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System is audited by the Comptroller General of the United States and the manner in which such audits are reported, and for other purposes.


Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Federal Reserve Transparency Act of 2009’.

SEC. 2. AUDIT REFORM AND TRANSPARENCY FOR THE BOARD OF GOVERNORS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM.

(a) In General- Subsection (b) of section 714 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by striking all after `shall audit an agency’ and inserting a period.

(b) Audit- Section 714 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:

`(e) Audit and Report of the Federal Reserve System-

`(1) IN GENERAL- The audit of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal reserve banks under subsection (b) shall be completed before the end of 2010.

`(2) REPORT-

`(A) REQUIRED- A report on the audit referred to in paragraph (1) shall be submitted by the Comptroller General to the Congress before the end of the 90-day period beginning on the date on which such audit is completed and made available to the Speaker of the House, the majority and minority leaders of the House of Representatives, the majority and minority leaders of the Senate, the Chairman and Ranking Member of the committee and each subcommittee of jurisdiction in the House of Representatives and the Senate, and any other Member of Congress who requests it.

`(B) CONTENTS- The report under subparagraph (A) shall include a detailed description of the findings and conclusion of the Comptroller General with respect to the audit that is the subject of the report, together with such recommendations for legislative or administrative action as the Comptroller General may determine to be appropriate.’.

82 realwest  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:07:59am

Well y’all I gotta go do some more chores - damnit - anyway, I hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!

83 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:09:31am

re: #82 realwest

Well y’all I gotta go do some more chores - damnit - anyway, I hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!

Have a great day, Real!

84 lurking faith  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:10:22am

re: #73 realwest

By that you mean, I guess, that the IRS doesn’t “do” audits anymore (or very few)?
Why is that, do you know?


They don’t have the staff to do a lot of personal audits. I may be wrong, but I think they focus more attention on business returns.

I’ve filed personal returns that were so bizarre, I actually bet people that I would get audited. I sure would have audited me for them. Never happened, though.

85 Scion9  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:11:27am

re: #63 Shiplord Kirel

Except that a lot of Paul’s fellow travelers like Chuck Baldwin whom he endorsed for President if I’m not mistaken are also much more theocratic than than most socon voters despite their Libertarian veneer.

Their entire Libertarian philosophy is ‘State’s Rights’ oriented in ending the ‘oppression’ of the Federal government, the Bill of Rights, etc. They of course have no real problem with individual States then instituting draconian and invasive laws to end religious pluralism or violate any other number of civil liberties currently enjoyed by Americans once the Feds are out of the way.

86 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:11:35am

Title 31 United States Code

This is what Paul’s bill wants to amend.

87 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:12:38am

re: #61 yenta-fada

I poked around for some info on Greider. Looks like he’s a Paul-style isolationist:

The U. S. military, despite its massive firepower and technological brilliance, has itself become the gravest threat to our peace and security. Our risks and vulnerabilities around the world are magnified and multiplied because the American military has shifted from providing national defense to taking the offensive worldwide, from being a vigilant defender to being an adventurous aggressor in search of enemies.

That’s from his own website, where he quotes a review that quotes that passage from his latest book. Why do the anti-Fed folks always turn out to be some kind of nut?

88 Rexatosis  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:12:44am

Ron Paul has zero support among the GOP other than he caucuses with them. When was the last time anyone saw Rep. Paul holding a fund raiser for GOP candidates, being asked to give the keynote at a GOP fundraiser, or being asked to actively campaign with other GOP candidates? Paul got what low single digits in nearly every primary he was in as a Presidential Candidate? Hell Al Lewis, Grampa Munster, got about 5% as a Candidate for NY Gov. a decade ago. To judge whether one has influence follow the money and what gets done not a bunch of internet/news hype. Get a few loons together via the internet does not make for a political movement but it does make for good theatre.

89 Wendya  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:12:57am

The senate has a similar bill:

[Link: www.govtrack.us…]

90 lurking faith  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:14:16am

re: #80 realwest

“There is Thingumbob shouting!” the Bellman said,
“He is shouting like mad, only hark!
He is waving his hands, he is wagging his head,
He has certainly found a Snark!”

91 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:14:50am

re: #75 keithgabryelski

they are NOT. Ron Paul is his own worse enemy and everyone that works with him knows that’s that case.

He can gather a small bit of support but that just divides conservatives (or those that self-describe as such).

The best he does is present a voting booth /dev/null lever.

Paul as a candidate is a joke, to be sure. He proved that last year. I will stand by my statement though because of the growing influence of his red-meat libertarian and conspiracy-tainted worldview.
I don’t think we’ll see Paul as a candidate again, he might not even stand for another term in Congress. What we will see is a lot of little Pauls, with variously mixed iterations of the same philosophy, flavors of the same fishy sauce.

92 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:15:41am

re: #88 Rexatosis

Ron Paul has zero support among the GOP other than he caucuses with them.

Agreed to a point. But there’s a difference between ‘support’ and ‘influence’. He sits on some big-gun committees.

Financial Services
Foreign Affairs
Joint Economic Committee (don’t know what this is)

93 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:15:48am

re: #89 Wendya

The senate has a similar bill:

[Link: www.govtrack.us…]

Yes, that one was intentionally based on Ron Paul’s bill. They do this all the time with legislation. Once they get both passed they reconcile the two bills together.

94 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:16:29am

re: #88 Rexatosis

Ron Paul has zero support among the GOP other than he caucuses with them. When was the last time anyone saw Rep. Paul holding a fund raiser for GOP candidates, being asked to give the keynote at a GOP fundraiser, or being asked to actively campaign with other GOP candidates? Paul got what low single digits in nearly every primary he was in as a Presidential Candidate? Hell Al Lewis, Grampa Munster, got about 5% as a Candidate for NY Gov. a decade ago. To judge whether one has influence follow the money and what gets done not a bunch of internet/news hype. Get a few loons together via the internet does not make for a political movement but it does make for good theatre.

Looks like a stronger statement for Paul adding no support to the GOP than for Paul not getting any support. If he was any good for the party, wouldn’t he be helping with fundraisers and other candidates (besides his son)?

95 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:16:41am

re: #88 Rexatosis

Ron Paul has zero support among the GOP


I see a surprising amount of support for Ron Paul’s ideas on this very thread.

96 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:19:07am

re: #95 Killgore Trout

I see a surprising amount of support for Ron Paul’s ideas on this very thread.

I’m hoping that Paul is undermining himself with the above YouTube vid. We aren’t having much effect here, I fear.

97 lurking faith  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:19:55am

re: #95 Killgore Trout

I see a surprising amount of support for Ron Paul’s ideas on this very thread.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, and all that.

I do think the Fed needs more oversight, at least in theory. Trouble is, who watches the watchmen? Congress has not shown itself to be good at Econ 101.

98 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:19:57am

re: #95 Killgore Trout

I see a surprising amount of support for Ron Paul’s ideas on this very thread.

That was my point earlier. The GOP establishment doesn’t like him a bit but his influence is everywhere out here on the Republican street.

99 Rexatosis  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:20:21am

Re # 92 wahabicorridor

Power of committees lies with the chair, Ron Paul is essentially a gadfly placed to create havoc for the Dems and nothing more.

100 yenta-fada  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:20:29am

re: #87 wrenchwench

Actually, Grieder wrote “Who Will Tell the People” when he was still Editor of the “Rolling Stone” magazine. Where he has gone politically since those years, I don’t know. I’m a pre-Sept. 11 liberal turned conservative. The creation of money became a Fed franchise and it is NOT a real arm of government, despite the fact that it is called “The Fed”. There is an unhealthy history of men who were Goldman Sachs money machines going straight into Government. That doesn’t make me a libertarian. It’s just fact. e.g. Robert Rubin, Alan Greenspan, Hank Paulson. As a Canadian, our own current Central Bank head is Mark Carney, also a Goldman Sachs guy.

101 Wendya  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:21:38am

re: #95 Killgore Trout

I see a surprising amount of support for Ron Paul’s ideas on this very thread.

Wait….

Let me get this straight…

Auditing the fed is a BAD idea because Ron Paul suggested it?

Wow… I guess we’d better hope Ron Paul never supports any type of fiscal responsibility because then we’d be honor bound to support runaway government spending so we aren’t tarred with the same crazy-brush. //

Get real.

102 Shug  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:21:55am

Go Tom Watson !

103 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:22:08am

re: #98 Shiplord Kirel

That was my point earlier. The GOP establishment doesn’t like him a bit but his influence is everywhere out here on the Republican street.

That’s why he wins all of those polls with Ron Paul! as a choice. //

104 ladycatnip  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:23:11am

#101 Wendya

Wait….

Let me get this straight…

Auditing the fed is a BAD idea because Ron Paul suggested it?

Wow… I guess we’d better hope Ron Paul never supports any type of fiscal responsibility because then we’d be honor bound to support runaway government spending so we aren’t tarred with the same crazy-brush. //

Get real.

Thank you for that! A thousand updings to you.

105 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:23:16am

re: #99 Rexatosis

Re # 92 wahabicorridor

Power of committees lies with the chair, Ron Paul is essentially a gadfly placed to create havoc for the Dems and nothing more.

I understand, but gadfly or not - he still has a vote.

106 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:23:34am

re: #98 Shiplord Kirel

That was my point earlier. The GOP establishment doesn’t like him a bit but his influence is everywhere out here on the Republican street.

Agreed. It’s also worth noting that it’s not just Ron Paul. The Birch Society is back again. Glenn Beck’s popularity is a symptom of a much larger problem. I do have hope that conservatives and the GOP are going to veer away from the abyss eventually but I don’t see any signs of it so far. We’ll have to wait and see how far they go before they recognize it as a mistake.

107 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:23:51am

re: #85 Scion9

Except that a lot of Paul’s fellow travelers like Chuck Baldwin whom he endorsed for President if I’m not mistaken are also much more theocratic than than most socon voters despite their Libertarian veneer.

Their entire Libertarian philosophy is ‘State’s Rights’ oriented in ending the ‘oppression’ of the Federal government, the Bill of Rights, etc. They of course have no real problem with individual States then instituting draconian and invasive laws to end religious pluralism or violate any other number of civil liberties currently enjoyed by Americans once the Feds are out of the way.

An excellent point. The Paulian and socon wings are still distinguishable but they already blend around the edges. They could essentially be unified once the theocratic end of the socon spectrum in particular really begins to understand what Paulism is really about.

108 jcm  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:23:54am

re: #95 Killgore Trout

I see a surprising amount of support for Ron Paul’s ideas on this very thread.

Just because he’s a complete loon, doesn’t mean he a couple of ideas are without merit.

We just need the ideas with out the loon.

Taking a look at the fed isn’t loony in and by itself.
Working to restore government to Constitutional bounds is also a good idea.

Those aren’t bad ideas.

RP just muddies the water when he gets involved because he can’t resist bringing the loony toons along.

It’s more trouble than it’s worth trying to separate the couple of good ideas from the loony toons.

109 keithgabryelski  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:23:58am

re: #91 Shiplord Kirel

Paul as a candidate is a joke, to be sure. He proved that last year. I will stand by my statement though because of the growing influence of his red-meat libertarian and conspiracy-tainted worldview.
I don’t think we’ll see Paul as a candidate again, he might not even stand for another term in Congress. What we will see is a lot of little Pauls, with variously mixed iterations of the same philosophy, flavors of the same fishy sauce.

His only benefit is consistency, his followers don’t generally come with that quality and generally constrain their support to small divisive complaints that never reach critical mass.

These “little Pauls” (I like the term) can’t even agree among themselves about issues that bind them except for the amorphous and preposterous “an individuals infinite right of freedom from anything they don’t want to do”

110 [deleted]  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:24:14am
111 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:24:22am

re: #101 Wendya

Auditing the fed is a BAD idea because Ron Paul suggested it?


Strawman; I never said that. It’s a bad idea because it’s a bad idea.

112 jvic  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:24:44am

re: #44 iceweasel

*cough* PALIN. *cough*

Ouch!! Dammit, that stung.

Have you no compassion, madam? At long last, have you no sense of compassion? ;-)

Seriously, I agree with Victor Davis Hanson that Palin needs a period of reflection. (Others at LGF have linked to the article.) Also, I wondered if Huckabee might be studyin’ up when no one is watching.

Now I’m worrying that Palin’s or Huckabee’s base-broadening efforts might take them to something like Paulism. With their ability to work a crowd… :-(

113 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:25:22am

re: #97 lurking faith

Trouble is, who watches the watchmen?

Acorrding to the text of the bill posted above, that would be the Comptroller General (don’t ask me, I don’t know)

114 keithgabryelski  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:27:02am

re: #111 Killgore Trout

Strawman; I never said that. It’s a bad idea because it’s a bad idea.

please present some reason why it is a bad idea besides the bare assertion.

It’s a good idea because “transparency can be used in a feedback loop to fix problems is a broken system”.

rebuttal, please.

115 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:27:14am

Two years ago, Ron Paul introduced the Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act.

Not a single Republican signed on.

This year he introduced the Federal Reserve Transparency Act.

Every single House Republican signed on.

Seems pretty clear. His influence is growing. A lot.

116 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:27:44am

re: #108 jcm

Working to restore government to Constitutional bounds is also a good idea.


If the current government is out of line with the Constitution then why not just take it to court? You’ll lose. This is another idea fostered by the Paulians who are operating with a separate concept of what the Constitution says. The court certainly doesn’t uphold Paulian versions of the Constitution. If our current government oversteps its bounds the court will intervene.

117 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:28:20am

re: #111 Killgore Trout

Strawman; I never said that. It’s a bad idea because it’s a bad idea.

Why?

118 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:28:58am

re: #106 Killgore Trout

Agreed. It’s also worth noting that it’s not just Ron Paul. The Birch Society is back again. Glenn Beck’s popularity is a symptom of a much larger problem. I do have hope that conservatives and the GOP are going to veer away from the abyss eventually but I don’t see any signs of it so far. We’ll have to wait and see how far they go before they recognize it as a mistake.

The Birch Society never went anywhere. None of these people went anywhere. It’s just all seems new to you. It’s not, these nuts have been around for 50 or more years, and they always come out of the woodwork in times like this.

Boo!

119 Racer X  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:29:31am

re: #115 Charles

Abolishing the fed is absurd. Taking a detailed look at what they are doing might be a good idea.

120 avanti  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:29:42am

Here’s a good read on why the Fed should remain independentFed..

121 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:29:43am

re: #114 keithgabryelski

please present some reason why it is a bad idea besides the bare assertion.


Central Bank Independence vs Inflation

This graph is a little out of date. I have no idea how the EU’s new central bank is set up but this gives you a general idea.

122 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:29:58am

re: #115 Charles

Two years ago, Ron Paul introduced the Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act.

Not a single Republican signed on.

This year he introduced the Federal Reserve Transparency Act.

Every single House Republican signed on.

Seems pretty clear. His influence is growing. A lot.

And I was just looking for a link to back up this statement:

Don’t forget, the real aim is to dismantle the Fed, not audit it.
123 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:30:00am

re: #115 Charles

Two years ago, Ron Paul introduced the Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act.

Not a single Republican signed on.

This year he introduced the Federal Reserve Transparency Act.

Every single House Republican signed on.

Seems pretty clear. His influence is growing. A lot.

Seems circumstances have changed a lot too.

124 Lee Coller  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:30:04am

re: #93 Killgore Trout

Yes, that one was intentionally based on Ron Paul’s bill. They do this all the time with legislation. Once they get both passed they reconcile the two bills together.

That bill was introduced by Bernie Sanders (Socialist-VT). That senate bill also has democratic co-sponsors.

The house bill has 271 co-sponsors (218 are needed to pass a bill I believe). That includes democrats such as Pete Stark and Jackie Speier.

Ron Paul;’s influence in the republican party may be expanding, but this bill is not evidence of that. He simply did something everyone could sign on to.

125 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:30:22am

re: #120 avanti

Here’s a good read on why the Fed should remain independentFed..

Troll!
/just kidding, nice link.

126 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:30:53am

re: #117 wahabicorridor

see #121 and #120

127 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:31:25am

By the way, the Federal Reserve Transparency Act is intended as a first step toward the abolition of the Fed. Ron Paul has been pretty clear about that. His abolition bill didn’t get anywhere so he’s starting with an audit; but everyone knows where it’s going.

128 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:31:25am

re: #121 Killgore Trout

Central Bank Independence vs Inflation

This graph is a little out of date. I have no idea how the EU’s new central bank is set up but this gives you a general idea.

Wait. Auditing the Fed is somehow curbing its independence?

129 keithgabryelski  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:31:59am

re: #115 Charles

Two years ago, Ron Paul introduced the Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act.

Not a single Republican signed on.

This year he introduced the Federal Reserve Transparency Act.

Every single House Republican signed on.

Seems pretty clear. His influence is growing. A lot.

There are many more than two points of data in the graph (all the other bills Ron Paul has brought to the house and not gotten support).

One outlaying point does not make a trend.

It’s a leading indicator, to be sure, but this one thing does not an influencer make.

130 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:32:28am

re: #124 Lee Coller

Yes, Congress critters love to give themselves things to do; More committees, more speeches, more hearings, more paperwork. It’s what they live for.

131 lurking faith  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:33:03am

re: #113 wahabicorridor

Acorrding to the text of the bill posted above, that would be the Comptroller General (don’t ask me, I don’t know)


How the Comptroller General is Selected
Candidates suggested by a Congressional committee, nominated from that pool by POTUS, confirmed by the Senate. For a 15-year term.

132 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:33:20am

re: #128 wahabicorridor

Yes, read #120.

133 Wendya  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:33:29am

re: #111 Killgore Trout

Strawman; I never said that. It’s a bad idea because it’s a bad idea.

And why is it a bad idea?

134 keithgabryelski  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:34:43am

re: #121 Killgore Trout

Central Bank Independence vs Inflation

This graph is a little out of date. I have no idea how the EU’s new central bank is set up but this gives you a general idea.

I have no idea what you are trying to get to. Please present a cogent rebuttal that isn’t akin to “see it, can’t you SEE the problem”

135 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:34:45am

re: #128 wahabicorridor

Wait. Auditing the Fed is somehow curbing its independence?

Yes—its independence from those who would audit it. 3 wood had a comment to that effect recently, but I can’t find it.

136 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:34:50am

re: #1 Idle Drifter

Well color me surprised if he does slip up or comes out and says “9/11 was an inside job!”

///

No, I wouldn’t be surprised.

Idle Drifter -

I am a “Hebrew-American” - though you could never tell it by looking at a photo. At most I look “Brittany French.”
This “coloration” - or lack of it - has allowed me to move in and out as if my name were Smith, Jones, Brown or Johnson for that matter.
From what I have heard - Americans Generally are quizzical about the complaints of those whose headgear resembles “Tea Towels.” Americans wonder why after paying 10+ times of extraction costs of OIL - they HATE US?
We are a “Pacific” lot in the main - give us our “gas” at affordable prices and to tell the truth - we do NOT Care what you do in your home country very much. Have your “ISLAM” - as much as your bellies can swallow. This is to OUR advantage - NOT Yours. Christianity and Judaism (Not to Mention Hinduism and Budhism) have thrown off their “superioritist” ideas and have produced populations ready, willing and able to compete in today’s world.
Your world view reduces ONE FULL HALF of your population to a status slightly above livestock. This ties one hand behind your back as to competitiveness - as the NAZIS and Imperial Japan did until almost the end of World War II.
OH MUSLIMS - Fear and Fear Well and Greatly - Your Downfall Sleeps Next to You Tonight and Every Night. Your Woman is an Agent of Change as SHE is enlightened. You have a choice - Your Woman is the Vessel of Life - Your teachings are the Vessel of Death.
Choose Wisely. That is all.

-S-

137 Racer X  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:35:14am

re: #130 Killgore Trout

Yes, Congress critters love to give themselves things to do; More committees, more speeches, more hearings, more paperwork. It’s what they live for.

I definitely agree with this statement. Congress is also in charge of overseeing the fed. The fed is printing money like there is no tomorrow. I see a train wreck coming.

138 Wendya  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:37:08am

re: #120 avanti

Here’s a good read on why the Fed should remain independentFed..

From the article:

History provides numerous examples of non-independent central banks being forced to finance large government budget deficits. Such episodes invariably lead to high inflation.

As opposed to the fed printing money to finance several trillion dollars?

139 jaunte  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:37:38am

Hasn’t the Fed taken a lot of bad debt (mortgage-backed securities, Fanny and Freddie) onto its balance sheet recently? Opening it up to an audit could cause taxpayers to panic.

140 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:38:15am

Aren’t there Democrats who’ve signed on to the bill?

141 jcm  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:38:20am

re: #116 Killgore Trout

If the current government is out of line with the Constitution then why not just take it to court? You’ll lose. This is another idea fostered by the Paulians who are operating with a separate concept of what the Constitution says. The court certainly doesn’t uphold Paulian versions of the Constitution. If our current government oversteps its bounds the court will intervene.

So the court is infallible?

Congress can correct the court it’s a balance of power, not a oligarchy.

That’s why electing real conservatives / libertarians (not the RP variety) / classical liberals is important. The two elected branches can then correct overstepping of the courts.

142 Wendya  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:39:21am

re: #139 jaunte

Hasn’t the Fed taken a lot of bad debt (mortgage-backed securities, Fanny and Freddie) onto its balance sheet recently? Opening it up to an audit could cause taxpayers to panic.

Good.

Perhaps that panic would result in some retribution taken against an administration and congress that continues to spend money that doesn’t exist.

143 jaunte  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:40:17am

re: #142 Wendya

I think that explains Lamar Alexander’s explanation.

144 itellu3times  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:40:23am

re: #16 Shiplord Kirel

Conspiracy theories are fundamentally authoritarian in nature, designed to substitute the proponent’s personal authority for a strawman that represents a perceived form of rival authority.

No.

“There is nothing as powerful as an idea whose time has come” or something like that.

“Ideas have consequences”.

But these are not hidden forms of authoritarianism.

145 avanti  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:41:24am

re: #128 wahabicorridor

Wait. Auditing the Fed is somehow curbing its independence?

Yes, see my link. A political threat of a audit most any time the thread feels the need to act is destabilizing. Anytime Congress gets it’s nose in the door, it’ll muddy the waters on the many areas mentioned

here.

146 itellu3times  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:41:31am

re: #142 Wendya

Good.

Perhaps that panic would result in some retribution taken against an administration and congress that continues to spend money that doesn’t exist.

And against the financial execs who created ithe problem.

147 SixDegrees  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:42:37am

Maybe we should audit the Supreme Court while we’re at it. Those shady devils conduct all of their deliberations in TOTAL SECRET! We need TRANSPARENCY! And ultimately, we should let CONGRESS REPLACE THE SUPREME COURTS ROLE!

/Crazy off.

148 avanti  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:43:33am

re: #140 MandyManners

Aren’t there Democrats who’ve signed on to the bill?

A few, but both parties can support bad idea’s on occasion, and this bill is just the camels nose in the tent.

149 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:44:07am

re: #147 SixDegrees

Audit everything the audit the auditors!
/ad infinitum

150 itellu3times  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:44:10am

re: #145 avanti

Yes, see my link. A political threat of a audit most any time the thread feels the need to act is destabilizing. Anytime Congress gets it’s nose in the door, it’ll muddy the waters on the many areas mentioned

here.

Doesn’t matter, the die is cast. The fed will be audited. Why? Because it has exercised too much power recently, trillions of dollars of power.

For the better, or for the worse?

Doesn’t matter.

Power is vested in the US in three branches of constitutional government. So they FAILED to prevent the problem. Doesn’t matter. They will act to preserve their power.

And I guess I’m for it, if the alternative is that the US will be run by the Fed.

151 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:44:11am

re: #132 Killgore Trout

Yes, read #120.

Just finished. To me, the relevant text is:

The Federal Reserve strongly believes that removing the statutory limits on GAO audits of monetary policy matters would be contrary to the public interest by tending to undermine the independence and efficacy of monetary policy in several ways. First, the GAO serves as the investigative arm of the Congress and, by law, must conduct an investigation and prepare a report whenever requested by the House or Senate or a committee with jurisdiction of either body. Through its investigations and audits, the GAO typically makes its own judgments about policy actions and the manner in which they are implemented, as well as recommendations to the audited agency and to the Congress for changes or future actions. Accordingly, financial markets likely would see the grant of audit authority with respect to monetary policy to the GAO as undermining monetary independence—with the adverse consequences discussed previously—particularly because GAO audits, or the threat of a GAO audit, could be used to try to influence monetary policy decisions.

Does this describe your concerns?

152 Racer X  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:45:44am

re: #120 avanti

Here’s a good read on why the Fed should remain independentFed..

From your link:

Benefits of Independence to Conduct Policy in Pursuit of Legislated Objectives

The insulation from short-term political pressures—within a framework of legislated objectives and accountability and transparency—that the Congress has established for the Federal Reserve has come to be widely emulated around the world. Considerable experience shows that this type of approach tends to yield a monetary policy that best promotes economic growth and price stability.

Operational independence—that is, independence to pursue legislated goals—reduces the odds on two types of policy errors that result in inflation and economic instability. First, it prevents governments from succumbing to the temptation to use the central bank to fund budget deficits. Second, it enables policymakers to look beyond the short term as they weigh the effects of their monetary policy actions on price stability and employment.

Fail.

The federal reserve is printing money at an alarming rate - directly in response to the current financial crisis.

Get Ready for Inflation and Higher Interest Rates

Rahm Emanuel was only giving voice to widespread political wisdom when he said that a crisis should never be “wasted.” Crises enable vastly accelerated political agendas and initiatives scarcely conceivable under calmer circumstances. So it goes now.

Here we stand more than a year into a grave economic crisis with a projected budget deficit of 13% of GDP. That’s more than twice the size of the next largest deficit since World War II. And this projected deficit is the culmination of a year when the federal government, at taxpayers’ expense, acquired enormous stakes in the banking, auto, mortgage, health-care and insurance industries.

With the crisis, the ill-conceived government reactions, and the ensuing economic downturn, the unfunded liabilities of federal programs — such as Social Security, civil-service and military pensions, the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation, Medicare and Medicaid — are over the $100 trillion mark. With U.S. GDP and federal tax receipts at about $14 trillion and $2.4 trillion respectively, such a debt all but guarantees higher interest rates, massive tax increases, and partial default on government promises.

But as bad as the fiscal picture is, panic-driven monetary policies portend to have even more dire consequences. We can expect rapidly rising prices and much, much higher interest rates over the next four or five years, and a concomitant deleterious impact on output and employment not unlike the late 1970s.

About eight months ago, starting in early September 2008, the Bernanke Fed did an abrupt about-face and radically increased the monetary base — which is comprised of currency in circulation, member bank reserves held at the Fed, and vault cash — by a little less than $1 trillion. The Fed controls the monetary base 100% and does so by purchasing and selling assets in the open market. By such a radical move, the Fed signaled a 180-degree shift in its focus from an anti-inflation position to an anti-deflation position.

153 yenta-fada  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:45:52am

re: #120 avanti

Did you happen to notice that your quoted article was written by the current Vice Chairman of the Governors of the Fed? Donald Kohn is NOT an objective source!!

154 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:47:24am

re: #150 itellu3times

Doesn’t matter, the die is cast. The fed will be audited. Why? Because it has exercised too much power recently, trillions of dollars of power.


There’s no chance this will become reality. Even if it does pass in will surely be vetoed. Even Obama is not stupid enough to endorse this (and he’s a guy running up trillion dollar deficits). In fact Obama is increasing the power and independence of the Fed and there’s virtually no chance he’d hamstring the Fed with congressional oversight.

155 ladycatnip  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:47:38am

#108 jcm

Just because he’s a complete loon, doesn’t mean he a couple of ideas are without merit.

We just need the ideas with out the loon.

Taking a look at the fed isn’t loony in and by itself.
Working to restore government to Constitutional bounds is also a good idea.

Those aren’t bad ideas.

RP just muddies the water when he gets involved because he can’t resist bringing the loony toons along.

It’s more trouble than it’s worth trying to separate the couple of good ideas from the loony toons.


It’s unfortunate that anything to do with the Tea Bag Parties are considered tainted because Ron Paul had followers there. Or if he suggests fiscal accountability, it’s tainted. There are going to be wacko people attaching themselves to any legitimate cause and probably more so in an attempt to marginalize the cause itself.

Most intelligent people are able to discern the wheat from the chaff.

156 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:47:59am

re: #152 Racer X

I have that WSJ Laffer article IN MY POCKET.

157 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:50:11am

From avanti’s link (great link, btw, thanks!)

Our financial controls are examined by an external auditor, and Reserve Bank operations and controls are reviewed by each Reserve Bank’s independent internal audit function and by Board staff who oversee Reserve Bank activities. We provide the public and the Congress with detailed annual reports on the consolidated financial activities of the Federal Reserve System that are audited by an independent public accounting firm.

Anybody know who these people are? The last time I checked ‘public accounting firms’ audited Enron, Worldcom, etc.

158 Son of the Black Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:50:35am

re: #110 MikeySDCA

You are wrong. They just flat don’t audit.

No, you are wrong. They just don’t do as many face-to-face audits as they used to. The do a lot more computer cross-checking of data to ensure that income has been reported. People who have W-2 income, mortgage interest, etc. don’t require auditing. The computer can do it.

The in-person audits are generally aimed at self-employed and small business, where the owner has a lot of control over what gets reported. IOW, they go where they are likely to get the greatest payoff for the time they put in.

Also, every major (Fortune 500) company is under continuous audit, for all years. And the IRS audits almost every sizable estate for death tax purposes.

159 jaunte  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:50:49am

“What is government itself but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.”
— James Madison

160 MrPaulRevere  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:51:00am

Allahpundit just linked this over at Hot Air, I can’t wait for the kooky comments to roll in.

161 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:51:03am

re: #142 Wendya

Good.

Perhaps that panic would result in some retribution taken against an administration and congress that continues to spend money that doesn’t exist.

Wendya -

Money “exists” when a Government says it does. Its value is something else.
(See: The Zimbabwe Dollar). That is al.

-S-

162 Racer X  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:51:33am

re: #152 Racer X

And please see the chart -

Our Exploding Money Supply.

The percentage increase in the monetary base is the largest increase in the past 50 years by a factor of 10 (see chart nearby).

It is so far outside the realm of our prior experiential base that historical comparisons are rendered difficult if not meaningless. The currency-in-circulation component of the monetary base — which prior to the expansion had comprised 95% of the monetary base — has risen by a little less than 10%, while bank reserves have increased almost 20-fold. Now the currency-in-circulation component of the monetary base is a smidgen less than 50% of the monetary base. Yikes!

Yikes indeed.

163 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:51:46am

OK, I found it.

263 3 wood7/08/2009 5:09:32 pm PDT

re: #240 Killgore Trout

What do you make of the plan to audit the Fed?


An attempted power grab, very dangerous and very socialistic. What makes Monetary Policy work is the trust factor from being non-political.

If I was Bernanke I would resign if they actually go this way.

I figure 3 wood’s opinion is respected by more lizards than just about any other source we can find.

164 jvic  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:52:19am

re: #135 wrenchwench

Yes—its independence from those who would audit it. 3 wood had a comment to that effect recently, but I can’t find it.

If the Fed has nothing to hide, why is it resisting an audit?

/

Maybe there should be a carefully structured, appropriately redacted outside review of how the govt, including the Fed, handled the crisis once the crisis is over, but not now for heaven’s sake.

I agree that “auditing” a central bank can be used to compromise its independence. Auditing the Fed right now is like requiring that every action in response to a major disaster be recorded for the benefit of the tort bar.

165 clgood  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:53:29am

Not all of RP’s ideas are nuts, and the idea of auditing anything can’t really be considered nuts. I was attracted for many years to RP because of his good ideas. But they were the only ones I heard about because I wasn’t paying close attention. (My first hint of his eccentricity came in his lone “no” vote on a resolution to honor Charles Schulz.) Then, during the campaign, I found out he was the Crazy Uncle.

I really doubt he’ll become any kind of force in the Republican Party but, on the other hand, he probably got so many to sign up for the audit because it happens to be a good idea. Blind squirrels, etc.

If he’s not a troofer (nuts) he’s at least a panderer (politician).

166 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:53:53am

re: #163 wrenchwench

I often disagree with 3 wood but I’m pretty sure he’s right on this one.

167 avanti  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:54:12am

re: #150 itellu3times

Doesn’t matter, the die is cast. The fed will be audited. Why? Because it has exercised too much power recently, trillions of dollars of power.

For the better, or for the worse?

Doesn’t matter.

Power is vested in the US in three branches of constitutional government. So they FAILED to prevent the problem. Doesn’t matter. They will act to preserve their power.

And I guess I’m for it, if the alternative is that the US will be run by the Fed.

I disagree, the bill will not pass the Senate, maybe not even get to a vote.

168 anchors_aweigh  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:54:25am

re: #115 Charles

Two years ago, Ron Paul introduced the Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act.

Not a single Republican signed on.

This year he introduced the Federal Reserve Transparency Act.

Every single House Republican signed on.

Seems pretty clear. His influence is growing. A lot.

Or maybe it indicates a problem with the FED. Nah…does not fit the meme.

169 Son of the Black Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:55:10am

re: #115 Charles

Two years ago, Ron Paul introduced the Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act.

Not a single Republican signed on.

This year he introduced the Federal Reserve Transparency Act.

Every single House Republican signed on.

Seems pretty clear. His influence is growing. A lot.

There’s a huge difference between proposing to abolish the Fed and wanting it’s actions to be transparent, plus be accountable to someone other than itself.

That said, I personally believe that the Fed should remain independent.

170 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:55:35am

Charles, We need a poll!
How fantastic are Ron Paul’s economic policies?
A) Fantastic
B) Awesome
C) Ron Paul!
d) all of the above.

171 clgood  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:55:39am

re: #165 clgood

Oh, wait. Just saw KG’s comment. I completely forgot the implications of who is doing the audit.

172 ladycatnip  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:55:43am

Projecting theories that Paul’s ideas of fiscal accountability will lead somewhere is somehow measured and reasoned, while those who think Holdren’s beliefs could lead us somewhere is kooky and wacko.

173 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:56:21am

re: #162 Racer X

And please see the chart -


Yikes indeed.

Y’all please bear in mind that this is the “Laffer Spike”. Yes, that Laffer. The same man who gave us the Laffer curve to describe simply and succinctly why raising taxes may increase or decrease revenue, depending on other conditions, is now STUMPED as to the effects of this explosion in the money supply. He wrote that piece for the WSJ Opinion page.

174 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:57:00am

re: #148 avanti

A few, but both parties can support bad idea’s on occasion, and this bill is just the camels nose in the tent.

A few? Wel, there are 271 co-sponsors so, if 178 are Republicans, there are NINETY-THREE Democrats. Is NINETY-THREE a few?

Here’s the list of co-sponsors.

175 itellu3times  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:57:56am

re: #154 Killgore Trout

There’s no chance this will become reality. Even if it does pass in will surely be vetoed. Even Obama is not stupid enough to endorse this (and he’s a guy running up trillion dollar deficits). In fact Obama is increasing the power and independence of the Fed and there’s virtually no chance he’d hamstring the Fed with congressional oversight.

Time will tell.

Frankly, I’m paying it little enough attention, but I’d guess it will happen sooner rather than later. If it does NOT happen in the next year, when new elections will be approaching, I will concede. Though I suppose it could even be an election issue and take place later.

176 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:59:07am

I would like to *not* change reporting/auditing requirements for the Fed, simply out of conservatism, of the inertial sort. Fix what’s wrong, but don’t go toss the place. There are too many uncovered moving targets as it is. Let’s don’t make this even more complex.

177 Racer X  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:59:23am

re: #163 wrenchwench

An attempted power grab, very dangerous and very socialistic. What makes Monetary Policy work is the trust factor from being non-political.

That may have been the case in the past.

Timothy Geitner is the 75th and current United States Secretary of the Treasury, serving under President Barack Obama. He was previously the president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

Geithner’s position includes a large role in directing the Federal Government’s economic response to the financial crisis which began after December 2007. Specific tasks include directing the allocation of $350 billion of Wall Street bailout funds.

He is currently dealing with multiple high visibility issues, including the survival of the automobile industry, the restructuring of banks, financial institutions and insurance companies, recovery of the mortgage market, demands for protectionism, Obama’s new tax proposals, and relations with foreign governments that are dealing with similar crises.

C.Y.A.

178 SixDegrees  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:00:50pm

re: #152 Racer X

The worry is that Congressional control of the Fed will make the expansion of the money supply a matter of political concern, rather than economic concern. Putting Congress in control of the money supply is a recipe for certain disaster on all imaginable time scales, beginning with the complete collapse of international support for the dollar and continuing as the dollar becomes the plaything of politicians, who would proceed to manipulate it for political gain rather than for fiscal stability.

You can certainly argue that the Fed isn’t doing it’s job properly, but there are effective measures that can be taken that fall far short of Congressional oversight. The first such step, if there’s a consensus that the Fed needs a new direction, comes later this year when Bernanke’s appointment expires. The entire Board of Governors is Presidentially appointed, and serve relatively short terms. If more extreme measures are thought to be required, impeachment is also an option, just as it is for Supreme Court justices.

Direct Congressional control, however, seems like a remarkably bad idea. As Charles has noted, this is where the Paulians are headed.

179 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:02:08pm

Would all those Republicans be backing the bill if FCBBHO had not won in 2008?

180 avanti  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:02:14pm

re: #164 jvic

If the Fed has nothing to hide, why is it resisting an audit?

/

Maybe there should be a carefully structured, appropriately redacted outside review of how the govt, including the Fed, handled the crisis once the crisis is over, but not now for heaven’s sake.

I agree that “auditing” a central bank can be used to compromise its independence. Auditing the Fed right now is like requiring that every action in response to a major disaster be recorded for the benefit of the tort bar.

Lets use a more personal example of how politically inspired audit could work. You own ABC Widget company and you notice every time you vote for a Democrat, you get a IRS audit. You have nothing to hide, but you soon learn to avoid a audit by supporting the Democrats.
Now, say the Fed makes a move to control inflation that the current party in power disagrees with, they get a audit. Just the threat of a audit could lessen the Fed’s effectiveness. The chart the KT posted that showed a direct relationship to low inflation and independence should be a eye opener.

181 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:03:05pm

Ok. Having started out on this thread as an agnostic re: Paul’s bill, I have formally converted to the belief that it sucks and is indeed ‘the camel’s nose under the tent’.

Congrats to avanti who provided the link.

There is already a huge amount of transparency and accountability provided by the reporting issued by the Fed. Not that it did any good in terms of preventing the current meltdown but it’s there is you want to slog thru it.

(we interrupt this post to announce tha Ron Paul is apparently going to be a guest on Glenn Beck’s weekend show - no joke)

As our elected representatives don’t have the time to read the helath care proposal, I doubt they could fit in a GAO report either.

This is a power grab, plain and simple.

182 Racer X  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:03:25pm

I no longer trust my government to make sound economic decisions. There are way too many partisan deals going on.

I don’t trust anyone involved in this current financial mess.

183 westman  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:03:25pm

This bill seems like a bad idea to me also, for the reasons cited above. It exposes the Fed to political influence down the road. Congress is a political body and I doubt very much that you can have more direct auditing from Congress without also getting political influence over Fed actions.

I am hoping that a lot of the support of these Congressman is due to a cynical desire to be seen as favoring openness and transparency, and that a lot of these supporters are really hoping that the bill stays in committee.

184 itellu3times  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:03:48pm

re: #177 Racer X

C.Y.A.

Excellent.

Obama is just the type to let himself be lead by the likes of Geithner, who strikes me as an officious fool, good mind but a definite beta, completely lost when he’s at the top.

So, Obama and the executive branch and the fed, against the House of Representatives and - dare I say it - the people? It’s very medieval, when the power struggle was often the nobility against the king and “the people”.

185 avanti  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:05:06pm

re: #166 Killgore Trout

I often disagree with 3 wood but I’m pretty sure he’s right on this one.

Don’t you find it odd that we’re talking the conservative position for less regulation and political influence on a independent agency ? :)

186 Racer X  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:05:49pm

re: #178 SixDegrees

I agree with you. Keep congress as far away as possible. But I want to know what the fed is up to and why.

187 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:06:11pm

re: #181 wahabicorridor

Ok. Having started out on this thread as an agnostic re: Paul’s bill, I have formally converted to the belief that it sucks and is indeed ‘the camel’s nose under the tent’.

You have renewed my faith in the value of discussion. Thank you.

188 itellu3times  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:06:14pm

re: #179 MandyManners

Would all those Republicans be backing the bill if FCBBHO had not won in 2008?

They might.

Remember, the root of this problem is financial, the bad loans, the numbers. This all occurred, and the foolishness with Paulson and Bernanke definitely started under Bush.

(so was that also the executive branch and the fed, against the world?)

As well ask if the Democrats would have been against the fed, if McCain had been elected. Probably more of them would be!

189 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:07:32pm

re: #187 wrenchwench

You have renewed my faith in the value of discussion. Thank you.

Thank YOU!

190 itellu3times  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:07:47pm

re: #181 wahabicorridor

Ok. Having started out on this thread as an agnostic re: Paul’s bill, I have formally converted to the belief that it sucks and is indeed ‘the camel’s nose under the tent’.

More like the camel’s nose into a sewage pit. Pity the poor camel.

191 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:08:05pm

The Fed should be audited. Why not? So should the IRS….big time. It should be an independent audit for both parts as the chances of making all of that political is immense….that is a tall order in this day and age. But, the Fed exerts significant power over the the US economy. Looking into their books should be something done every year…the same with the IRS, as I think they would come across looking extremely bad. Both of these entities need to be more transparent and accountable.

192 keithgabryelski  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:08:09pm

re: #147 SixDegrees

Maybe we should audit the Supreme Court while we’re at it.

The output is good enough to understand what is happening:

Graphical depiction of the tendency for Supreme Court justices to drift to the left the longer they serve (just about everyone except Thomas)

[Link: scotusscores.com…]

193 Racer X  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:08:32pm

re: #185 avanti

Don’t you find it odd that we’re talking the conservative position for less regulation and political influence on a independent agency ? :)

Heh. That is funny.

The problem is I see the fed being influenced more and more by politics.

Just like the MSM.

194 albusteve  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:08:50pm

trust Congress to oversee the Fed while it runs rampant over the economy?…the courts keep the Fed within it’s mandated boundry?….that’s where three fools met….I vote present….

195 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:10:24pm

re: #180 avanti


The chart the KT posted that showed a direct relationship to low inflation and independence should be a eye opener.


Here’s the chart again. I checked to see where the new EU central bank would be; They modeled the new bank after Germany’s old one so they already have an advantage. If we move further to the left on that chart the Euro may very well become the new global currency.

196 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:10:54pm

re: #185 avanti

Don’t you find it odd that we’re talking the conservative position for less regulation and political influence on a independent agency ? :)

Heh.

197 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:11:05pm

re: #188 itellu3times

They might.

Remember, the root of this problem is financial, the bad loans, the numbers. This all occurred, and the foolishness with Paulson and Bernanke definitely started under Bush.

(so was that also the executive branch and the fed, against the world?)

As well ask if the Democrats would have been against the fed, if McCain had been elected. Probably more of them would be!

I thought that the loan problems started with the politicized HUD.

198 itellu3times  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:11:35pm

re: #147 SixDegrees

Maybe we should audit the Supreme Court while we’re at it. Those shady devils conduct all of their deliberations in TOTAL SECRET! We need TRANSPARENCY! And ultimately, we should let CONGRESS REPLACE THE SUPREME COURTS ROLE!

/Crazy off.

I believe we should replace the lifetime tenure with fixed terms and a retirement age.

199 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:12:23pm

re: #181 wahabicorridor

Kudos.

(we interrupt this post to announce tha Ron Paul is apparently going to be a guest on Glenn Beck’s weekend show - no joke)


He’s on almost every week from what I can tell.

200 jvic  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:13:11pm

From the people who brought you Smoot-Hawley:

H.R. 1207: Federal Reserve Transparency Destroy the Dollar Act of 2009.

Even wth Obama/Pelosi/Reid, hopefully we will get out of the crisis with no worse than deep scars and slow-healing wounds. If Congress screws around with the independence of the central bank, IMO we won’t get off so lightly.

201 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:14:28pm

re: #181 wahabicorridor

Ok. Having started out on this thread as an agnostic re: Paul’s bill, I have formally converted to the belief that it sucks and is indeed ‘the camel’s nose under the tent’.

It’s stealth legislation, the first step in a plan to abolish the Fed entirely. This bill will give Ron Paul a tool to dig for political angles of attack — he says that in the video clip above.

202 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:14:31pm

re: #197 MandyManners

I thought that the loan problems started with the politicized HUD.

HUD was always politicized…it was conceived and has been run as a virtual arm of the Democratic party since it’s inception.

203 itellu3times  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:14:34pm

re: #197 MandyManners

I thought that the loan problems started with the politicized HUD.

That’s a particular and mostly right-wing political take on it, that I happen to disagree with. I blame a few dozen financial execs, not to mention 50,000 crooked appraisers, 100,000 crooked loan officers, and 10,000,000 foolishly speculative homebuyers. Sure, the Barney Franks of the world, and the Bill Clintons, are in there somewhere, too, but there’s plenty of blame to go around, and I put at least 2/3 of it on wall street.

204 avanti  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:16:17pm

re: #197 MandyManners

I thought that the loan problems started with the politicized HUD.

That is the talking point by some, but HUD loans were a tiny faction of the problem. To assume some HUD loans brought down the world economy defies logic. Many of the defaults were made by speculators that got caught buying overvalued properties to flip.

205 Racer X  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:17:28pm

I trust Ron Paul the least out of just about everyone in congress.

The man is a fool.

At least with Pelosi, Reid, Frank and the rest, you know exactly what shenanigans they are up to. RP seems like a sneaky old bastard with something to hide.

206 Wendya  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:18:03pm

re: #181 wahabicorridor

There is already a huge amount of transparency and accountability provided by the reporting issued by the Fed.

There is only transparency on what they want publicly known. In reality, there has never been a completely transparent audit of the fed. The fed routinely refuses to divulge information to congress.

207 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:18:10pm

re: #191 Desert Dog

The Fed should be audited. Why not? So should the IRS….big time. It should be an independent audit for both parts as the chances of making all of that political is immense….

It already IS. Just reading the bill - or about the bill - one could reasonably believe the the Fed isn’t audited, is not transparent, is not accountable.

That is not the case. The bill moves the responsibility currently done over to GAO

avanti’s link

The Federal Reserve reports on its experience toward achieving its statutory objectives in the semiannual Monetary Policy Reports and associated congressional testimony. The Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC) releases a statement immediately after each regularly scheduled meeting and detailed minutes of each meeting on a timely basis. We also publish summaries of the economic forecasts of FOMC participants four times a year. In addition, Federal Reserve officials frequently testify before the Congress and deliver speeches to the public on a wide range of topics, including economic and financial conditions and monetary and regulatory policy.

Our financial controls are examined by an external auditor, and Reserve Bank operations and controls are reviewed by each Reserve Bank’s independent internal audit function and by Board staff who oversee Reserve Bank activities. We provide the public and the Congress with detailed annual reports on the consolidated financial activities of the Federal Reserve System that are audited by an independent public accounting firm. We also publish a detailed balance sheet on a weekly basis.
[ ]
The Congress, however, has purposefully—and for good reason—excluded from the scope of potential GAO audits monetary policy deliberations and operations, including open market and discount window operations, and transactions with or for foreign central banks, foreign governments, and public international financing organizations.
[ ]
Permitting GAO audits of monetary policy also could cast a chill on monetary policy deliberations through another channel. Although Federal Reserve officials regularly explain the rationale for their policy decisions in public venues, the process of vetting ideas and proposals, many of which are never incorporated into policy decisions, could suffer from the threat of public disclosure. If policymakers believed that GAO audits would result in published analyses of their policy discussions, they might be less willing to engage in the unfettered and wide-ranging internal debates that are essential to identifying the best possible policy options. Moreover, the publication of the results of GAO audits related to monetary policy actions and deliberations could complicate and interfere with the communication of the FOMC’s intentions regarding monetary policy to financial markets and the public more broadly. Households, firms, and financial market participants might be uncertain about the implications of the GAO’s findings for future decisions of the FOMC, thereby increasing market volatility and weakening the ability of monetary policy actions to achieve their desired effects.

208 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:18:43pm

re: #201 Charles

It’s stealth legislation, the first step in a plan to abolish the Fed entirely. This bill will give Ron Paul a tool to dig for political angles of attack — he says that in the video clip above.

I agree that Ron Paul’s goal with that bill is exactly that - the destruction of the Fed. I still think the Fed should be audited and we should peel back some of those hush hush layers. We need the Federal Reserve to handle our monetary policies. Ron Paul wants to replace it with a non workable alternative in this day of interconnected economies.

I wish someone else would step up and craft a bill that looks to reform, retool and streamline the Fed, rather than get rid of it.

209 calcajun  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:19:04pm

To paraphrase Henry II, “Who will rid us of this meddlesome quack?”

(PS—not a call call for a “death in the cathedral”—just how can we make him go away)

210 avanti  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:19:43pm

Beck is on now, he’ll talk to Paul about the Fed.

211 Wendya  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:20:15pm

re: #205 Racer X

I trust Ron Paul the least out of just about everyone in congress.

The man is a fool.

At least with Pelosi, Reid, Frank and the rest, you know exactly what shenanigans they are up to. RP seems like a sneaky old bastard with something to hide.

Perhaps, but that doesn’t mean we have to create our own little conspiracy theories to cover every piece of legislation with his name on it.

212 lincolntf  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:21:53pm

re: #203 itellu3times

Barney Frank lisping about how he was not concerned about “the safety and soundness” of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac should be played at high-volume every time someone tries to cast him as an “expert” on anything involving economics or housing.
Such an asinine statement would have been the death knell of many a politician, but Barney gets a lifetime free pass.

213 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:23:06pm

re: #205 Racer X

I trust Ron Paul the least out of just about everyone in congress.

The man is a fool.

At least with Pelosi, Reid, Frank and the rest, you know exactly what shenanigans they are up to. RP seems like a sneaky old bastard with something to hide.

RacerX -

Find “The Something to Hide” and win a DeSoto - G. Marx ca. 1953.

-S-

214 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:24:56pm

Mort Zuckerman talking about unemployment numbers - saying they’re artificially low - which I happen to agree with (they don’t count a lot of people)

215 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:24:59pm

re: #213 Dr. Shalit

Revise and Extend -

Or don’t and get a (De) Sotomayor anyway.

-S-

216 debutaunt  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:26:18pm

re: #197 MandyManners

I thought that the loan problems started with the politicized HUD.

The CRA.

217 capitalist piglet  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:26:44pm

re: #205 Racer X

I trust Ron Paul the least out of just about everyone in congress.

The man is a fool.

At least with Pelosi, Reid, Frank and the rest, you know exactly what shenanigans they are up to. RP seems like a sneaky old bastard with something to hide.

I regard Ron Paul as a crazy bastard, but I have to say there are an awful lot of Democrats in congress that scare the hell out of me.

I’m more worried about this Frankenstein’s monster of a health care bill they’re screwing the bolts into at the moment than just about anything else.

218 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:29:34pm

jeebus. Zuckerman and the other guy (whose name I didn’t catch) are saying the ‘formal’ unemployment figure in Oregon is 13%. But if you count the ‘under employed) who are working part time instead of full time and the people who have just given up - it’s 23%

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think Oregon has been a ‘leading indicator’ in where the rest of the nation is going. I don’t know if that’s because it had a lot of California transplants who were ‘house wealthy’ and got nailed or if it’s something more fundamental.

219 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:31:26pm

re: #115 Charles

Two years ago, Ron Paul introduced the Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act.

Not a single Republican signed on.

This year he introduced the Federal Reserve Transparency Act.

Every single House Republican signed on.

Seems pretty clear. His influence is growing. A lot.

It’s a completely different bill - no resemblance. BTW, I think 90 Dems are signed up as co-sponsors too.

220 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:31:41pm

The US is leftist and Europe is moving right. We are in a Bizarro World right now:

The Fed looks Keynesian while the ECB looks to Friedman.

221 pat  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:31:51pm

Zuckerman was an unrelenting Obama cheer leader. Now he realizes that Obama, Boxer, Pelosi, Frank, et al are deadly serious about deconstructing the USA.

222 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:33:44pm

Ok Everyone -

Rep. Ron Paul would have been a perfect US President in the ‘80’s - and I mean the 1880’s. A time when the UK was the leading world power. Either he OR I am wrong. I believe that things change when your nation is “Top Gun.”
Rep. Paul does not. There lies the difference. That is all.

-S-

223 Racer X  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:34:28pm

re: #221 pat

Zuckerman was an unrelenting Obama cheer leader. Now he realizes that Obama, Boxer, Pelosi, Frank, et al are deadly serious about deconstructing the USA.

I think many Americans have come to this same realization.

The unicorn changed into a donkey with a waffle cone taped to it’s nose.

224 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:35:05pm

re: #221 pat

Zuckerman was an unrelenting Obama cheer leader. Now he realizes that Obama, Boxer, Pelosi, Frank, et al are deadly serious about deconstructing the USA.

So was Warren Buffett. Go figure.

Altho I don’t think he is anywhere close to ascribing actual intent to these people. My husband is still in the ‘naive’ and ‘stupid’ denial mode.

The other day I asked him ‘So, here’s a thought experiment. If they actually DO want to destroy this country, what exactly would they do differently?”

He’s still mulling that one over.

225 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:35:19pm

re: #223 Racer X

I think many Americans have come to this same realization.

The unicorn changed into a donkey with a waffle cone taped to it’s nose.

RacerX -

ROTFLMAO!

-S-

226 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:35:36pm

re: #220 Desert Dog

The US is leftist and Europe is moving right. We are in a Bizarro World right left now:

The Fed looks Keynesian while the ECB looks to Friedman.

227 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:35:39pm

re: #221 pat

Zuckerman was an unrelenting Obama cheer leader. Now he realizes that Obama, Boxer, Pelosi, Frank, et al are deadly serious about deconstructing the USA.

There are quite a few like that now, Warren Buffet especially. Obama is doing exactly what people that looked at his past thought it he would. I was hoping he would move the to center and run things like Clinton did…but he’ll apparently have none of that….he is taking the USA farther to the left than any other President since FDR. Congratulations to all of you that voted for Obama….he has made you look like fools.

228 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:36:07pm

re: #211 Wendya

Perhaps, but that doesn’t mean we have to create our own little conspiracy theories to cover every piece of legislation with his name on it.

Yup - next thing we’ll have to disavow is small government…. after all it’s all wound up with conspiracies and such.

229 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:36:24pm

re: #223 Racer X

I think many Americans have come to this same realization.

The unicorn changed into a donkey with a waffle cone taped to it’s nose.


Think where that waffle cone will be in about 16 months.

230 MrPaulRevere  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:37:23pm

Audio: Ron Paul and Alex Jones on … the Trilateral Commission [Link: hotair.com…]

231 SixDegrees  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:38:02pm

re: #218 wahabicorridor

jeebus. Zuckerman and the other guy (whose name I didn’t catch) are saying the ‘formal’ unemployment figure in Oregon is 13%. But if you count the ‘under employed) who are working part time instead of full time and the people who have just given up - it’s 23%

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think Oregon has been a ‘leading indicator’ in where the rest of the nation is going. I don’t know if that’s because it had a lot of California transplants who were ‘house wealthy’ and got nailed or if it’s something more fundamental.

For what it’s worth, complaining about the unemployment rate figures has a long history. It’s invariably practiced by the party trying to make the other guy responsible for bad economic times by making them look even worse than they already are. The Dems did the same thing throughout Reagan’s two terms; even when the rate had fallen to the low single digits and the economy was steadily expanding, they claimed that the metric didn’t include the “phantom unemployed” and that dire times were being masked.

So I have sort of a sour feeling towards these improvised metrics. Yes, the unemployment rate is flawed in the sense that it doesn’t accurately measure precisely how many people are out of work. But it does have the advantage of being measured the same way over a very long period of time, making relative comparisons possible. And there’s no doubt that the current rate, hovering just below 10%, is absolutely awful, or that several states with even higher rates (Michigan just topped 15%, with no end in sight) are rapidly approaching Depression-era levels. But attempts to jigger the rates are almost always done with an eye toward boosting them for political traction, and - more importantly - there isn’t any consistency or long-term data that makes comparisons with prior periods possible when using such measures.

Flawed though it may be, the national unemployment statistics are as close to a standardized metric of the job markets as we have. And the picture it paints at the moment is by no means rosy.

232 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:38:30pm

re: #227 Desert Dog

he has made you look like fools that you are.

FTFY

233 jcm  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:38:52pm

re: #198 itellu3times

I believe we should replace the lifetime tenure with fixed terms and a retirement age.

When they start seeing things that don’t exist like emanations of penumbras, maybe they should be removed.

234 Racer X  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:40:04pm

re: #224 wahabicorridor

The other day I asked him ‘So, here’s a thought experiment. If they actually DO want to destroy this country, what exactly would they do differently?”

That’s profound.

235 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:41:23pm

re: #231 SixDegrees

I am aware of all the points you make and they are valid. But what I’ve been trying to find out - unsuccessfully - is over time, is there an ‘average’ gap between the official unemployment rate and the ‘shadoow’ unemployment rate?

It seems that the example given to us by Oregon - a 10% spread - may be rather large by historical standards but I can’t find evidence one way or the other.

236 avanti  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:41:53pm

I get the fear the right has of Obama’s liberal agenda, here’s what scares me about the

right.

237 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:41:56pm

re: #230 MrPaulRevere

Audio: Ron Paul and Alex Jones on … the Trilateral Commission [Link: hotair.com…]

The fact that these guys and their disciples are gaining more and more influence in the GOP makes me want to cry. Obama and his Democrat cohorts are providing the Republicans with plenty of ammo and attack points for the midterms in 2010 and the Presidency in 2012. If we show up with a slate of Nirther/Troofer/Conspiracy freaks as candidates, we will get our asses handed to us, even if the Democrats keep hitting icebergs.

238 jcm  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:43:41pm

re: #236 avanti

I get the fear the right has of Obama’s liberal agenda, here’s what scares me about the

right.

How much support do you see for Glenn Beck from us righties around here?

239 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:43:59pm

For all those lefties out there who voted for Obama, but are far too hip for “Won’t Get Fooled Again”:

Are You A Hypnotist?
Flaming Lips


I had forgiven you
for tricking me again
but I had been tricked again
into forgiving you

What is this?
Are you some kind of hypnotist?
Waving your powers around
The sun eclipse behind the clouds

I thought I recognized your face
amongst all those strangers
but I am the stranger now
amongst all the recognized

What is this? What is this?
Are you some kind of hypnotist?
Waving your powers around
The sun eclipse behind the clouds
The sun eclipse behind the clouds

240 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:44:50pm

re: #233 jcm

When they start seeing things that don’t exist like emanations of penumbras, maybe they should be removed.

Aurae! You forgot the aurae!

241 SixDegrees  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:45:43pm

re: #235 wahabicorridor

I am aware of all the points you make and they are valid. But what I’ve been trying to find out - unsuccessfully - is over time, is there an ‘average’ gap between the official unemployment rate and the ‘shadoow’ unemployment rate?

It seems that the example given to us by Oregon - a 10% spread - may be rather large by historical standards but I can’t find evidence one way or the other.

I’m not aware of any data like what you’re looking for. That’s part of the problem - the way the shadow rate is calculated varies from author to author; there’s no standardized way of measuring it.

In general, the only thing you can safely say is that the official rates represent a floor underneath the ‘true’ unemployment rate, which will inevitably be higher.

242 MrPaulRevere  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:46:11pm

re: #237 Desert Dog

The prevalence of the Paulbots was not even on my radar screen when I left the GOP, but yes sir, indeed they are a problem.

243 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:46:16pm

re: #236 avanti

I get the fear the right has of Obama’s liberal agenda, here’s what scares me about the

right.

Yes, that Glenn Beck is signing beau coup bills into laws and nationalizing industry after industry….Oh wait, he’s just a “shock jock” TV host that panders to the LCD.

Glenn Beck is disturbing to many on the right too, Avanti. Myself included. But, compared to the Democratic juggernaut that is currently remaking the USA in their image is a bit more profound, yes?

244 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:47:04pm

re: #236 avanti

I just finished the book listed as #20 “The Monster of Florence”

EXCELLENT read - true murder mystery and judicial corruption in Italy (the corrupt prosecuter in the Monster case is also prosuting American exchange student Amanda Knox for the murder of Meridith Kirchner - using the same ‘sex cult’ tactics)

245 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:47:16pm

re: #236 avanti

I get the fear the right has of Obama’s liberal agenda, here’s what scares me about the

right.

Avanti -

That it took Glenn Beck to knock off Mark Levin? Pray tell.


-S-

246 SixDegrees  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:47:45pm

re: #240 haakondahl

Aurae! You forgot the aurae!

Keep your areolas to yourself!

247 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:48:51pm

re: #246 SixDegrees

Keep your areolas to yourself!

Show us your areolas, we have beads!

/

248 Racer X  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:49:19pm

re: #239 haakondahl

Are You A Hypnotist?
Flaming Lips

Cool song.

249 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:49:23pm

re: #243 Desert Dog

Yes, that Glenn Beck is signing beau coup bills into laws and nationalizing industry after industry….Oh wait, he’s just a “shock jock” TV host that panders to the LCD.

Glenn Beck is disturbing to many on the right too, Avanti. Myself included. But, compared to the Democratic juggernaut that is currently remaking the USA in their image is a bit more profound, yes?

Oh come on, Desert Dog -

Avanti is just a midwestern retired vet who thought “what the heck” and voted for Obama because Obama seemed like a reasonable, moderate and non-ideological guy.

The fact that Obama has turned out to be a rigid ideologue bent on railroading radical legislation and rewarding political cronies has made no impact on Avanti.

Faux Moderate.

250 jcm  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:49:54pm

re: #240 haakondahl

Aurae! You forgot the aurae!

ROFL! How could I forget that!

251 SixDegrees  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:50:12pm

re: #247 Desert Dog

Show us your areolas, we have beads!

/

LOL.

252 MrPaulRevere  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:50:21pm

Hey Killgore, this one is just for you…’The all Paul search engine’. Thank me later: [Link: ronpaulexplorer.com…]

253 Jim in Virginia  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:50:22pm

re: #231 SixDegrees

But it does have the advantage of being measured the same way over a very long period of time, making relative comparisons possible.


A thousand updings .

254 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:51:12pm

re: #228 Pianobuff

Yup - next thing we’ll have to disavow is small government…. after all it’s all wound up with conspiracies and such.

Be’old, the tiny people of Stonehenge!

255 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:51:12pm

re: #241 SixDegrees

In general, the only thing you can safely say is that the official rates represent a floor underneath the ‘true’ unemployment rate, which will inevitably be higher.

Labor stats.

*sigh*

I once had to find out exactly why the count of ‘12 million illegals’ was apparently written in stone.

Lipstick, meet pig.

I did found out the methodology they used. Anyone they could not absolutely say was legal was illegal. They haven’t done an actual ‘hard count’ since the ’90s.

I will say this tho’ - the researchers at BLS are paid out of my/our tax dollars and they are worth every penny.

256 jcm  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:51:24pm

re: #247 Desert Dog

Show us your areolas, we have beads!

/

We’re talking boob in black robes!

Jeesh some people!

;-)

257 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:52:19pm

re: #256 jcm

We’re talking boob in black robes!

Jeesh some people!

;-)

I would give them the beads, all of them, if they DON’T SHOW :-)

258 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:54:15pm

re: #238 jcm

How much support do you see for Glenn Beck from us righties around here?

I support some of the things he says. I wish he’d wake up to some of the people he hangs out with tho’

I like his ‘Slobbering Love Affair” book about the MSMs relationship with Obama during the campaign. That was spot on and well documented.

259 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:54:43pm

re: #247 Desert Dog

Show us your areolas, we have beads!

/

You don’t want none o’ this.

260 Racer X  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:55:28pm

The Flaming Lips - Ego Tripping At The Gates Of Hell

261 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:56:39pm

re: #254 haakondahl

Be’old, the tiny people of Stonehenge!

Thanks for the laugh. One of my fav cult movies.

David St. Hubbins: I do not think the problem was that the band was “down”. I think the problem was that there was a Stonehenge monument on stage that was in danger of being crushed…by a dwarf!

Some of my other favorite lines:

Nigel Tufnel: It’s like, how much more black could this be? and the answer is none. None more black.

David St. Hubbins: It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.

Marty DiBergi: The review for “Shark Sandwich” was merely a two word review which simply read “Shit Sandwich”.

262 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:56:39pm

re: #258 wahabicorridor

I support some of the things he says. I wish he’d wake up to some of the people he hangs out with tho’

I like his ‘Slobbering Love Affair” book about the MSMs relationship with Obama during the campaign. That was spot on and well documented.

That wasn’t Glenn Beck it was Bernard Goldberg

263 Jim in Virginia  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:57:11pm

re: #242 MrPaulRevere

When the good obstetrician got his start in Houston in the mid 70s a lot of his supporters were Birchers. Or whatever Birchers had morphed into by the mid 70s. It’s a movement that by all rights should be dead but it ain’t. Until we get some elected Republicans to act responsibly, fools like Paul will continue to gain influence. If McConnell or Christie win the VA or NJ governorships, they will have the opportunity and the spotlight to do the right thing.

264 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:57:35pm

Bernard Goldberg - A Slobbering Love Affair

265 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:58:14pm

re: #253 Jim in Virginia

A thousand updings .

If nothing else, we should be able to construct a band by continually citing opposition figures as the high limit, and administration figures as the low limit. Then perhaps take a shortest path through that as a poor man’s compensation for the smearing effects of unknown reporting delays.

266 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:59:48pm

re: #262 Desert Dog

That wasn’t Glenn Beck it was Bernard Goldberg

Oh. That’s ok. I like Bernie too!

LOL!

267 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:00:18pm

re: #265 haakondahl

If nothing else, we should be able to construct a band by continually citing opposition figures as the high limit, and administration figures as the low limit. Then perhaps take a shortest path through that as a poor man’s compensation for the smearing effects of unknown reporting delays.

And by “we” of course, I mean “you”. Look at the big brain on Jim!

268 RadicalRon  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:00:34pm

And while the krazy uncle and his kooky nephew continue the project of being mainstreamed into the GOP by FoxNews and a few other folks, those making up the braintrust of the RNC stand around scratching their asses, totally clueless as to what’s going on.

To paraphrase Pogo, I have seen the future and we is fucked.

269 MrPaulRevere  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:01:04pm

re: #263 Jim in Virginia

That’s correct. When parties are disorganized and disoriented like the GOP is now, opportunists will always rush in. Who knows, I might even rejoin it if it gets its act together.

270 Jim in Virginia  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:01:20pm

re: #252 MrPaulRevere

Hey Killgore, this one is just for you…’The all Paul search engine’. Thank me later: [Link: ronpaulexplorer.com…]


Oh crap. McDonnell is advertising on that site.

271 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:01:58pm

re: #268 RadicalRon

And while the krazy uncle and his kooky nephew continue the project of being mainstreamed into the GOP by FoxNews and a few other folks, those making up the braintrust of the RNC stand around scratching their asses, totally clueless as to what’s going on.

To paraphrase Pogo, I have seen the future and we is fucked.

To say nothing of the Nazi grandpa.

272 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:02:12pm

re: #270 Jim in Virginia

Oh crap. McDonnell is advertising on that site.

That’s from google I think, not from McConnells people putting it there.

273 jcm  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:02:18pm

re: #258 wahabicorridor

I support some of the things he says. I wish he’d wake up to some of the people he hangs out with tho’

I like his ‘Slobbering Love Affair” book about the MSMs relationship with Obama during the campaign. That was spot on and well documented.

But, again like Laup Nor, to much get’s lost in the overtop hysteria.

In the end, IMHO we need a reasoned, rational approach to issues. When it comes the passions needs to come the core truths, Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness. Not BS paranoid delusion, faux outrage, and hype for ratings.

274 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:02:54pm

re: #252 MrPaulRevere

Hey Killgore, this one is just for you…’The all Paul search engine’. Thank me later: [Link: ronpaulexplorer.com…]

I’ll check that out later. Right now I’m searching for my soul mate on Ron Paul Singles

275 Radicchio ad Absurdum  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:03:17pm

re: #274 Killgore Trout

I’ll check that out later. Right now I’m searching for my soul mate on Ron Paul Singles

Ron Paul has Shingles?

276 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:03:35pm

re: #270 Jim in Virginia

Oh crap. McDonnell is advertising on that site.

Yeah, well, we get ads for Muslima singles here. They’d be more than welcome, I’m sure, but might not hang with some of the discourse. Advertisers’ mileage may vary.

277 capitalist piglet  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:03:43pm

re: #274 Killgore Trout

I’ll check that out later. Right now I’m searching for my soul mate on Ron Paul Singles

Not a bad idea. You’d never run out of things to talk about. ; )

278 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:03:46pm

re: #274 Killgore Trout

I’ll check that out later. Right now I’m searching for my soul mate on Ron Paul Singles

Let us know when you meet your dream girl, we’ll all chip in for your honeymoon.

279 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:04:11pm

re: #274 Killgore Trout

I’ll check that out later. Right now I’m searching for my soul mate on Ron Paul Singles

The Velveeta of Politicians.

280 MrPaulRevere  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:04:29pm

re: #274 Killgore Trout

Oh no. I HAVE seen it all now!

281 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:04:56pm

re: #274 Killgore Trout

I’ll check that out later. Right now I’m searching for my soul mate on Ron Paul Singles

They put the LOVE in Revolution…..now nice….ha ha

282 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:05:14pm

re: #278 Desert Dog

Let us know when you meet your dream girl, we’ll all chip in for your honeymoon.

Didn’t Ron Paul have some kooky bombshell wife? Wait, who’s the Congressman from Alpha Centauri?

283 wiffersnapper  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:05:34pm

Troofers go home!

All conspiracies are bullshit.

284 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:05:49pm

Dennis Kookcinich.

285 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:06:28pm

re: #283 wiffersnapper

Troofers go home!

All conspiracies are bullshit.

Sh-h-h-h…

286 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:07:01pm

hey Lizards! I had a wonderful nap!

Help me here:

What are the pros and cons of auditing the Fed?

don’t all banks get audited?

287 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:07:07pm

re: #282 haakondahl

Didn’t Ron Paul have some kooky bombshell wife? Wait, who’s the Congressman from Alpha Centauri?

That’s Dennis Kucinich you’re thinking of.

288 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:07:41pm

re: #273 jcm

In the end, IMHO we need a reasoned, rational approach to issues

Which would require courage not currently in evidence (see my first post on this thread - it’s up there somewhere).

Example: Have you seen anything from the RNC on Sotomayor? Crickits, right? That’s because they’re too concerned about ‘the Hispanic vote’. No seasoned, rational discusiion of the fact that identity politics lead to this demonstrated liar’s nomination and probable confirmation to the SCOTUS

289 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:07:55pm

re: #286 ggt

hey Lizards! I had a wonderful nap!

Help me here:

What are the pros and cons of auditing the Fed?

don’t all banks get audited?

Well, if you Ron Paul, the pros are you can put it out of business.

290 SteveC  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:08:04pm

re: #15 jcm

What about this! Huh! Can you answer SCIENCE!

//////////////////

“As a noted scientist it surprised me that the girl blinded me with science.”

291 Bloodnok  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:08:11pm

re: #274 Killgore Trout

I’ll check that out later. Right now I’m searching for my soul mate on Ron Paul Singles

Holy shit.

292 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:08:22pm

re: #278 Desert Dog

Let us know when you meet your dream girl, we’ll all chip in for your honeymoon.

I have just the spot and package - here - just down the street from Ron in lovely Lake Jackson.

293 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:08:24pm

re: #268 RadicalRon

And while the krazy uncle and his kooky nephew continue the project of being mainstreamed into the GOP by FoxNews and a few other folks, those making up the braintrust of the RNC stand around scratching their asses, totally clueless as to what’s going on.

To paraphrase Pogo, I have seen the future and we is fucked.

Perhaps we need to let them have the GOP, support other candidates and let them fade away.

294 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:08:26pm

re: #287 Desert Dog

That’s Dennis Kucinich you’re thinking of.

Boy, there’s you Moronic Convergence right there.

295 SteveC  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:09:09pm

re: #291 Bloodnok

Holy shit.

*FACEPALM*

296 Desert Dog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:09:23pm

re: #290 SteveC

“As a noted scientist it surprised me that the girl blinded me with science.”

That’s enough proof for me! I’m onboard now! Bush did it! Cheney too….the Jews were in on it!

/

297 Jim in Virginia  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:09:26pm

re: #267 haakondahl I’m not smart enough to keep McConnell and McDonnell straight.

298 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:09:52pm

Good heavens, Miss Sakamoto—you’re beautiful!

299 jcm  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:09:56pm

re: #283 wiffersnapper

Troofers go home!

All conspiracies are bullshit.

All my work on those chemtrails is paying off.

I love my job!

//;-P

300 HelloDare  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:10:04pm

Damn. Too bad Ron Paul is so busy. I’d love to hear his take on Roswell, Princess Dianna, and the Apollo Moon Landing. /

So many conspiracies, so little time.

301 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:10:05pm

re: #286 ggt

hey Lizards! I had a wonderful nap!

Help me here:

What are the pros and cons of auditing the Fed?

don’t all banks get audited?

The Fed is already audited. Paul’s bill wants to move ‘auditing’ of monetary policy decisions to the GAO - no politization there, no siree. See avanti’s link here.

302 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:11:34pm

re: #297 Jim in Virginia

I’m not smart enough to keep McConnell and McDonnell straight.

McConnell is he of the Mitch-Slap! whenever Dingy Harry needs to be taken out behind the woodshed.

303 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:11:57pm

re: #301 wahabicorridor

The Fed is already audited. Paul’s bill wants to move ‘auditing’ of monetary policy decisions to the GAO - no politization there, no siree. See avanti’s link here.

Thanks and bookmarked.

304 Jim in Virginia  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:12:11pm

re: #274 Killgore Trout

I’ll check that out later. Right now I’m searching for my soul mate on Ron Paul Singles


That’s so wrong.

305 HelloDare  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:12:12pm

re: #284 haakondahl

Dennis Kookcinich.

Dennis Kocinich is an alien. Haven’t you heard?

306 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:12:21pm

re: #297 Jim in Virginia

I’m not smart enough to keep McConnell and McDonnell straight.

All of this to say that I can keep them straight by not having the foggiest idea who McDonnell is. Simple, no?

307 Jim in Virginia  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:13:28pm

re: #304 Jim in Virginia

That’s so wrong.


Imagine two truthers reproducing.

308 RadicalRon  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:13:37pm

Dr. Shalit:

Levin’s book isn’t available in paperback.

309 jcm  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:14:28pm

re: #288 wahabicorridor

Which would require courage not currently in evidence (see my first post on this thread - it’s up there somewhere).

Example: Have you seen anything from the RNC on Sotomayor? Crickits, right? That’s because they’re too concerned about ‘the Hispanic vote’. No seasoned, rational discusiion of the fact that identity politics lead to this demonstrated liar’s nomination and probable confirmation to the SCOTUS

Absolutely.

310 Jim in Virginia  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:14:32pm

re: #306 haakondahl

All of this to say that I can keep them straight by not having the foggiest idea who McDonnell is. Simple, no?

Bob McDonnell.
GOP candidate for governor in VA.
Send him money.

311 SteveC  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:14:33pm

Ron Paul Singles:
Total Male Members: 144
Total Female Members: 40

And we’re goin’ to Surf City, ‘cause it’s two to one
You know we’re goin’ to Surf City, gonna have some fun
Ya, we’re goin’ to Surf City, ‘cause it’s two to one
You know we’re goin’ to Surf City, gonna have some fun, now
TwoThree girlsboys for every boy girl!

312 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:14:59pm

re: #301 wahabicorridor

The Fed is already audited. Paul’s bill wants to move ‘auditing’ of monetary policy decisions to the GAO - no politization there, no siree. See avanti’s link here.

Isn’t the author of that article the vice chairman of the Fed too?

313 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:15:05pm

re: #305 HelloDare

Dennis Kocinich is an alien. Haven’t you heard?

Actually his name comes from a mis-translation of the UFO’s abrupt landing in Mexico. Poor aliens wound up asking where the kitchen was, instead of where the Leader was.

314 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:15:42pm

I am a genius! The Presidential Myth Quiz answer page told me so.

315 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:15:43pm

re: #307 Jim in Virginia

Imagine two truthers reproducing.


No doubt, it would be an inside job.

316 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:16:21pm

re: #311 SteveC

Ron Paul Singles:
Total Male Members: 144
Total Female Members: 40

And we’re goin’ to Surf City, ‘cause it’s two to one
You know we’re goin’ to Surf City, gonna have some fun
Ya, we’re goin’ to Surf City, ‘cause it’s two to one
You know we’re goin’ to Surf City, gonna have some fun, now
TwoThree girlsboys for every boy girl!

So, the majority of the losers who follow noR are men?

317 HelloDare  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:16:39pm

Didn’t know Oliver Hardy was a Lizard.

318 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:16:45pm

re: #315 haakondahl

No doubt, it would be an inside job.

“Loose Change at last!”

319 SteveC  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:17:30pm

re: #297 Jim in Virginia

I’m not smart enough to keep McConnell and McDonnell straight.

*Snort* McConnell is my Cardiologist!

Just a smigen left of your average JFK Democrat, but a nice guy and a HELL of a doctor. He’s pulled my bacon out of the fire more than once.

320 MrPaulRevere  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:17:50pm

Sung to the tune of Downtown by Petula Clark: If you are needin’
To regain your lost freedoms,
You can always vote:
Ron Paul!

If you feel funny
Using dishonest money,
You can always vote:
Ron Paul!

Now listen to the chanting
Of the Ron Paul Revolution,
You can join right in with us
Be part of the solution.
How can we lose? (There is a whole blog full of such rubbish) [Link: sungtothetuneof.com…]

321 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:18:37pm

re: #319 SteveC

*Snort* McConnell is my Cardiologist!

Just a smigen left of your average JFK Democrat, but a nice guy and a HELL of a doctor. He’s pulled my bacon out of the fire more than once.

Doctor, Doctor! It hurts when I put my bacon in the fire!

322 iceweasel  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:19:11pm

re: #274 Killgore Trout

I’ll check that out later. Right now I’m searching for my soul mate on Ron Paul Singles

That’s a challenge which we must meet!

Name: LibertyLuverr1776
Sex: Yes
Gender: Female / Bipartisan-Curious

Turnons: deregulation, free markets, invisible hands, bare backing

Turnoffs: Foreign Policy, international banking, global economy, Internet Poll Blocking via IP

323 SteveC  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:21:10pm

re: #316 ggt

So, the majority of the losers who follow noR are men?

WINNAH! We have this lovely Ron Paul Conspiracy of the Day Desk Calendar for you!

324 clgood  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:21:20pm

A thanks to Avanti for the link. While the principle of “being wrong about x doesn’t imply being wrong about everything” holds, it seems that RP is just playing an old political game. An audit is one thing, but transferring control to congress is quite another. It’s not even justifiable according to the minimal-government conservatism that I thought he believed in.

325 SteveC  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:22:06pm

re: #321 haakondahl

Doctor, Doctor! It hurts when I put my bacon in the fire!

“Then don’t put your bacon in the fire, you moron.”

326 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:23:53pm

re: #325 SteveC

“Then don’t put your bacon in the fire, you moron.”

Thanks, Doc! It cleared right up.

327 jcm  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:23:56pm

re: #307 Jim in Virginia

Imagine two truthers reproducing.

We need to hack the RPsingles site and make matches with the Cythnia McKinney singles.

328 bobbuck  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:24:02pm

re: #127 Charles

By the way, the Federal Reserve Transparency Act is intended as a first step toward the abolition of the Fed. Ron Paul has been pretty clear about that. His abolition bill didn’t get anywhere so he’s starting with an audit; but everyone knows where it’s going.

The Federal Reserve has to be audited regardless of any desire to abolish it. Given how much money they handle I would personally prefer that they be audited every week by five different accounting firms. That would still be a tiny fraction of the auditing budget / dollar that the private world pays.

329 SteveC  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:24:54pm

re: #322 iceweasel

That’s a challenge which we must meet!

Name: LibertyLuverr1776
Sex: Yes
Gender: Female / Bipartisan-Curious

Turnons: deregulation, free markets, invisible hands, bare backing

Turnoffs: Foreign Policy, international banking, global economy, Internet Poll Blocking via IP

Keep that up and we’ll hear the pitter patter of little pieces of Loose Change!

330 lincolntf  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:25:17pm

re: #244 wahabicorridor

I started it last night. Wife thought it was very good.

331 SteveC  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:27:03pm

Arrrrgh! Gotta run, back soon! Somebody put the RESERVED sign in my chair!

332 avanti  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:27:50pm

re: #238 jcm

How much support do you see for Glenn Beck from us righties around here?

Why do you think I hang out here with the reasonable conservatives. I’d last two minutes on most other rightie sites.

333 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:27:53pm

re: #312 Pianobuff

Isn’t the author of that article the vice chairman of the Fed too?

Donald L. Kohn originally took office on August 5, 2002, as a member of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for a full term ending January 31, 2016. On June 23, 2006, Dr. Kohn was sworn in as Vice Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for a four-year term ending June 23, 2010.

334 avanti  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:29:59pm

re: #243 Desert Dog

Yes, that Glenn Beck is signing beau coup bills into laws and nationalizing industry after industry….Oh wait, he’s just a “shock jock” TV host that panders to the LCD.

Glenn Beck is disturbing to many on the right too, Avanti. Myself included. But, compared to the Democratic juggernaut that is currently remaking the USA in their image is a bit more profound, yes?

Never forget, I’m a liberal, I like the remaking thing, within limits. I’m pro universal health care for example.

335 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:30:35pm

re: #333 wahabicorridor

Thanks for the info. Yeah, I guess if I was that dude I wouldn’t want to be audited either and would be protesting to anyone that would listen.

Figures.

336 jcm  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:30:42pm

re: #332 avanti

Why do you think I hang out here with the reasonable conservatives. I’d last two minutes on most other rightie sites.

LOL! True dat!

I’ve tried long time ago some of the lefty sites, holy moly, was it interesting.

337 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:34:01pm

re: #332 avanti

Why do you think I hang out here with the reasonable conservatives. I’d last two minutes on most other rightie sites.

We’ll you’d mop the floor with them, but you’d be out the door from sheer exasperation in two minutes.

338 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:34:02pm

re: #330 lincolntf

I started it last night. Wife thought it was very good.

It is an excellent book - but very depressing. Prior to starting The Monster of Florence, I had just finished ‘Naples 1944” by Norman Lewis. He was a Brit assigned to an American intelligence unit in Naples. The picture he painted of Italian society was more than bleak (and his cynicism pissed me off). But I put it down to the hardships and dislocations of war.

Apparently not. The prosecuter (‘public minister’ in Italian parlance) went to trial in November 2008 for multiple counts, among them fabrication of evidence, illegal wiretapping, etc.

And he is STILL permitted to prosecute Amanda Know - after they already convicted - probably unjustly - another person for the murder.

Italy may be beautiful on the surface but the core rots.

339 debutaunt  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:36:30pm

re: #334 avanti

Never forget, I’m a liberal, I like the remaking thing, within limits. I’m pro universal health care for example.

Free health care. Nothing wrong with that as long as taxpayers keep on volunteering ever larger hunks of money to pay for it and not complaining about the ever lower value of their money. It’s gonna be great, as long as it lasts.

340 bobbuck  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:36:34pm

re: #312 Pianobuff

Isn’t the author of that article the vice chairman of the Fed too?

That’s what Ron Paul’s minions WANT you to believe!! They already hacked the Fed’s website:About the Federal Reserve

341 iceweasel  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:39:49pm

re: #336 jcm

LOL! True dat!

I’ve tried long time ago some of the lefty sites, holy moly, was it interesting.

You’re probably not checking out the right (heh) ones.

There are some you’d probably like.

342 Maui Girl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:41:45pm

Well, I agree that the Federal Reserve needs auditing but I wouldn’t vote for Ron Paul, ever, so just because someone agrees with one proposal that makes sense, doesn’t mean they’re in cahoots with that individual. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and say I don’t think Ron Paul was paying attention to the question that the Troofer was asking although I agree he should have come right out and said there is NO 9/11 conspiracy, IF, that’s what he believes. It sounded like he was in a hurry to be somewhere else.

343 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:45:48pm

gotta hop, lizards - it’s happy hour on Saturday nite!

344 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:47:02pm

re: #340 bobbuck

That’s what Ron Paul’s minions WANT you to believe!! They already hacked the Fed’s website:About the Federal Reserve

Ya know, you had me going for a minute there……

At any rate, if I was involved with the Fed given its disastrous monetary policy that helped created this fiasco we’re in I wouldn’t want any oversight either - especially since there’s new legislation coming down to grant it more power.

345 Maui Girl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:47:37pm

Free health care? For whom? Certainly not the taxpayers that are going to have to pick up the tab. Get real folks. NOTHING is free! Someone ends up paying one way or the other. We need to work on making health care AFFORDABLE for everyone. Remember, you get what you pay for. If you pay nothing, you may end up getting nothing. Why? Because the “freebie line” is so long you could end up dying before you get to the front.

346 avanti  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:49:24pm

re: #305 HelloDare

Dennis Kocinich is an alien. Haven’t you heard?

The beauty and the

beast couple.

347 SteveC  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:50:58pm

re: #339 debutaunt

Free health care. Nothing wrong with that as long as taxpayers keep on volunteering ever larger hunks of money to pay for it and not complaining about the ever lower value of their money. It’s gonna be great, as long as it lasts.

Free=more. MassCare is already contemplating a “cap” on the amount of health care you can receive in a year. Hit the limit and you are SOL until the next fiscal year starts. If I had a chronic illness and I lived in Kennedyland, I’d be looking for a way out.

Massachusetts Health Care Caps

348 Maui Girl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:52:54pm

re: #261 Pianobuff

Funny. I wore my black Spinal Tap t-shirt this morning, you know, the free one that came in the movie/CD combo, Blacker than Black? Actually, I forget the name of the “tour”.

349 SteveC  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:54:40pm

re: #345 Maui Girl

Free health care? For whom? Certainly not the taxpayers that are going to have to pick up the tab. Get real folks. NOTHING is free! Someone ends up paying one way or the other. We need to work on making health care AFFORDABLE for everyone. Remember, you get what you pay for. If you pay nothing, you may end up getting nothing. Why? Because the “freebie line” is so long you could end up dying before you get to the front.

There are three forces at work in the health care system:

Healthcare can be GOOD
Healthcare can be FAST
Healthcare can be CHEAP.

You can chose any two. You NEVER get all three.

350 Maui Girl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:55:09pm

Ugh. I’m going to have to stop visiting until the pix of Sotomayor on the RH side of the page is retired.

Aloha for now!

351 Maui Girl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:56:38pm

re: #349 SteveC

Precisely.

352 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 1:59:19pm

re: #348 Maui Girl

Funny. I wore my black Spinal Tap t-shirt this morning, you know, the free one that came in the movie/CD combo, Blacker than Black? Actually, I forget the name of the “tour”.

“break Like The Wind”? guessing.

353 debutaunt  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 2:09:00pm

re: #347 SteveC

Free? You can’t afford free.

354 ShanghaiEd  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 2:13:37pm

re: #63 Shiplord Kirel

The GOP establishment is afraid of Paul but he seems to be everywhere among the grassroots. It’s hard to quantify but Paulism could already be the main rival to the religious/socon faction for the loyalty of the rank and file. Opportunists further up the food chain are no doubt taking note as well.

That’s my perception too, Kirel.

Last election, there were 6 political signs, total, in my small-town neighborhood: one for McCain/Palin, five for Ron Paul.

355 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 2:26:55pm

re: #348 Maui Girl

Funny. I wore my black Spinal Tap t-shirt this morning, you know, the free one that came in the movie/CD combo, Blacker than Black? Actually, I forget the name of the “tour”.

Cool. I know they did a Black Album, but then there was the whole “Smell the Glove” kerfluffle that may have had something to do with a tour as well.

356 tradewind  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 2:42:36pm

I don’t think that the Republicans signing on to the audit the Fed thing (a no-brainer) has anything to do with them supporting Paul…… he just got his name on it first.

357 bobbuck  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 2:53:56pm

re: #344 Pianobuff

Ya know, you had me going for a minute there……

Have you seen the video of Alan Grayson and Federal Reserve Board Inspector General Elizabeth Coleman? It’s fantastic, an Office Space “what would you say ya do here?” moment. Video.

358 von  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 3:45:22pm

re: #201 Charles

I’d be very interested in some details about why abolishing the Fed is a bad idea. I’ve watched a bunch of the Paul/Infowars type videos, and would really like to see a different side. Why is the Fed good?

359 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 4:32:44pm

re: #358 von

I’d be very interested in some details about why abolishing the Fed is a bad idea. I’ve watched a bunch of the Paul/Infowars type videos, and would really like to see a different side. Why is the Fed good?

Here is a primer on the origins of the Federal Reserve, issued by the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston.

To my lay understanding, the stated intention of the Federal Reserve was to promote/provide a greater degree of economic stability in the form of monetary policy and banking oversight in order to avoid financial and banking panics that had occurred periodically, and most recently (the Fed was created in 1913) in 1907.

If anybody has links to any videos or transcripts that are balanced debates on the topic I’d also be most appreciative. Most of the treatment I’ve seen on this is ideologically hyper-partisan and I certainly would profit from seeing a couple of economists/experts of heft laying out their positions in real-time with the opportunity for rebuttal.

My main issues with the Fed have more to due with checks/balances/accountability than its existence, but I’m open to persuasion on this as well as the existential questions. Unfortunately, I’m also finding it difficult to find objective content.

360 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 4:43:32pm

re: #358 von

I’d be very interested in some details about why abolishing the Fed is a bad idea. I’ve watched a bunch of the Paul/Infowars type videos, and would really like to see a different side. Why is the Fed good?

Here’s another paper you might be interested in: Paul Warburg’s Crusade to Establish a Central Bank in the United States. Although the article is Warburg-centric, it does outline the aims of the Federal Reserve as originally conceived and describes the problems a central bank would be aimed at mitigating. This one is published by the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis.

Happy reading.

361 jvic  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 6:37:35pm

re: #347 SteveC

Free=more. MassCare is already contemplating a “cap” on the amount of health care you can receive in a year. Hit the limit and you are SOL until the next fiscal year starts. If I had a chronic illness and I lived in Kennedyland, I’d be looking for a way out.

Massachusetts Health Care Caps

That didn’t take long, did it?

I’ve wondered why Mitt Romney didn’t run for a second term in 2006. My best guess was that he didn’t want to risk failure. I’d like to see more boldness than that in a President.

Now I also wonder if he didn’t want to be in office when the flaws in his healthcare program became obvious.

362 chukardog  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:47:08pm

Charles,

Why on earth would you be against auditing the Fed? Just because crazy uncle Ron thinks its a good idea doesn’t always mean it’s wrong. Ron Paul is a nut bar but he still thinks clearly on a number of issues.

363 RexMundi  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:58:10pm

re: #15 jcm

What about this! Huh! Can you answer SCIENCE!

//////////////////

Holy shit. People are actually taking this idiot seriously? The world can be a disgusting place.

364 bolivar  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:56:18am

re: #17 keithgabryelski

I haven’t heard anything Ron Paul has said that makes me think he is a truther.

I think he is an opportunist (not that THAT is always a problem) and his response outs him as someone who will take anyone’s support, this seems to be the case with the white supremacists and anti-Semites we see in his national support structure.

It’s tough to get a sense of the man when he doesn’t come out aggressively against turkeys that are clearly fascists and support his campaign with time and money.

Then again, maybe it isn’t tough at all.

Obama is an opportunist - much to this sites chagrin. What is wrong with auditing the Fed? I think it is a good idea. We give far too much leeway to unelected people to manage our money - gee the messiah is doing that with his czars - no accountability and no limits on power. This should be scaring the bejesus out of every single citizen but, do we hear anything about it in the MSM? Not a peep.

I did not complain when the trade unionists were taken away because I was not a trade unionist……

365 muddywood  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:26:07pm

Charles, explain to me how auditing the Fed is a bad thing?

366 von  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:46:56pm

re: #360 Pianobuff

Thanks! I will read all of that over.

367 ed_gibbon  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 1:59:57pm

re: #4 jcm

He doesn’t want to alienate the trufer vote?…he is: a “high talker”, and an impossibly irritating and intolerable f**king Freak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He has the same type of devotees as Nader; young, and painfully naive. “do you realize that a corporation is treated as a person”


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