Overnight Open Thread
The large print giveth and the small print taketh away.
— Tom Waits
The large print giveth and the small print taketh away.
— Tom Waits
922 comments
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BignJames Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:48:19pm |
Small print? You mean that crap I can't see anymore?
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sngnsgt Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:50:46pm |
re: #1 BignJames
Small print? You mean that crap I can't see anymore?
Small print hell, it's getting hard for me to read large print!
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Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:50:51pm |
The Late Night Thread is my cue to leave tonight. Goodnight, lizards.
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Gus Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:51:11pm |
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realwest Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:54:30pm |
Well y'all it's really late for me, I just have to go to bed!
I do hope you all have a great evening/early morning and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!
Good night, all.
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Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:54:54pm |
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The Hoopster Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:56:31pm |
Hi Lizards!
Just ran up the stairs and am out of breathe!
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NY Nana Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:58:24pm |
Too tired to post...I hope that I don't make any spelling errors!
G'nite, Lizards! Sweet dreams.
ZZZzzz.
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The Hoopster Sat, Jul 18, 2009 10:59:01pm |
re: #9 NY Nana
Too tired to post...I hope that I don't make any spelling errors!
G'nite, Lizards! Sweet dreams.
ZZZzzz.
Good night Nana!
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Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:00:50pm |
/Rom & Roll Hall of Fame baby!
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NY Nana Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:02:27pm |
re: #10 sngnsgt
Repost from the bottom of last thread, but it's fun:
Sure, now you post it, just as I am going to post. Not to worry!I am stealing saving it. And what The One may say could give me really big nightmares.
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Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:04:56pm |
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NY Nana Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:05:28pm |
re: #11 HoosierHoops
G'nite, Hoosier Hoops! I have been grounded. :=( NY Grampa did it. Just because I didn't eat all my veggies. Not fair!
Sweet dreams!
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sngnsgt Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:05:52pm |
This is sick, now Hillary Clinton is apologizing for America. STFU Hilly!
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NY Nana Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:06:49pm |
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The Hoopster Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:08:13pm |
It's 2am and I'm doing research on a coin Walter sent me from AE3..The period of Constantine around 306-337AD...I took it out of it's protective plastic and held a coin in my hands... almost 2000 years ago people touched this coin...What did they buy? Was there like a smoking hot Roman girl in a mall tht spent this coin on a dress...Did it buy weapons for a soldier? The history is beyond me... It is so cool
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Kronocide Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:08:31pm |
Glad I'm done with last week. Spent a bunch of time in an arbitration hearing as an expert witness. Lot's of zzz spiked with some real action.
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The Hoopster Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:08:59pm |
re: #15 NY Nana
G'nite, Hoosier Hoops! I have been grounded. :=( NY Grampa did it. Just because I didn't eat all my veggies. Not fair!
Sweet dreams!
Love ya Nana!
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The Hoopster Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:09:30pm |
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sngnsgt Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:10:22pm |
re: #13 NY Nana
Sorry, I'm late getting home tonight and just received it in an e-mail. It's worth saving to favorites and having fun with later on LGF open threads, or LNDT's.
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Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:10:56pm |
/Google how old she is
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MrPaulRevere Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:11:24pm |
re: #10 sngnsgt
This one is more user friendly: THE GEORGE BUSH
CONSPIRACY THEORY GENERATOR [Link: www.buttafly.com...]
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Kronocide Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:12:47pm |
re: #18 HoosierHoops
That is very cool. I thought the same thing about drinking some 70 year old port a while back: made before WW2 started, harvested by some old Portugese men or women a long time ago, thinking about where it was sitting when all the world was going through the things it did, only to make it into my glass for a bout of olfactory gluttony.
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BignJames Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:13:42pm |
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sngnsgt Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:13:56pm |
re: #26 MrPaulRevere
This one is more user friendly: THE GEORGE BUSH
CONSPIRACY THEORY GENERATOR [Link: www.buttafly.com...]
LOL! That's one's a keeper too.
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MrPaulRevere Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:16:03pm |
re: #30 sngnsgt
George W. Bush made Rosie leave The View so that oil companies, SUV owners, and the Christian Coalition could kill welfare recipients...just pushing some buttons /
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The Hoopster Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:16:19pm |
re: #27 BigPapa
That is very cool. I thought the same thing about drinking some 70 year old port a while back: made before WW2 started, harvested by some old Portugese men or women a long time ago, thinking about where it was sitting when all the world was going through the things it did, only to make it into my glass for a bout of olfactory gluttony.
That is so cool...Walter and I are doing another swap this week.. He is sending me a 1000 year old Chinese coin and I'm going to rock his world this week... The art work on the Roman coin he sent me blows me away..Just Beautiful..
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Kronocide Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:16:39pm |
re: #10 sngnsgt
Cool. This is what it did for me:
"These people haven't had we must be better for fifty years. So you can't be surprised if they get bitter and cling to their evil and their mendacious and their fuktastic. That's what my campaign is about. Teaching all the little people in this country that they can have hope."
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ggt Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:17:11pm |
I'm reposting from the previous thread because I think it is a good topic.
>
re: #636 Slumbering Behemoth
I suppose, but my hyper-religious relatives who parrot that idiotic talking point support Israel, and have nothing against the Jewish people.
Sure, some of them do think that Jews will got to hell for not accepting Jesus as the son of God, but they certainly do not consider Jews to be the "root of all evil".
Why some parrot this "money changer" garbage perplexes me.
I think you are probably right.
I think there is alot of propaganda regarding money in all circles. Right now Capitalism is under seige in all forms. Historically, it is usury that is considered bad/evil.
It's a fine line that has no definite definition beyond the legal terms of the financial world. What is making a "fair" profit and what is greed?
In a Socialistic context, all profit is greed. Yet there is more corruption and less accountability in a socialist system.
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pbird Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:17:50pm |
re: #24 Killian Bundy
[Video]
/Google how old she is
She looks that old too. See how stiffly she moves?
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ggt Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:18:34pm |
I have an indian head gold coin. It is in a bezel and hangs from a gold chain. I can't remember what denomination --it is very small. Was my grandfather's.
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BignJames Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:19:37pm |
re: #36 pbird
She looks that old too. See how stiffly she moves?
I'm not that old...don't move that well, either.
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The Hoopster Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:20:16pm |
re: #37 ggt
I have an indian head gold coin. It is in a bezel and hangs from a gold chain. I can't remember what denomination --it is very small. Was my grandfather's.
Nice...It will always be something your grandfather cherished...Very nice memories my friend
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Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:21:00pm |
re: #37 ggt
I have a silver Italian coin from the late 19th century and a Kennedy silver half-dollar I got as change from a Chevron station a few months ago.
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pbird Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:22:22pm |
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Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:23:46pm |
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The Hoopster Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:24:45pm |
re: #40 Fenway_Nation
I have a silver Italian coin from the late 19th century and a Kennedy silver half-dollar I got as change from a Chevron station a few months ago.
I'm buying a couple million dollars of Iraq Dinars for a grand soon...
The downside is Iraq will fall into the abysis..
The upside is that they have a shitload of oil and someday their money might be worth something...
I'm going with the later..in the long run
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BignJames Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:30:42pm |
re: #44 gmsc
I can hardly wait! It's almost like...like...Santa's coming!
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gmsc Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:31:06pm |
re: #45 BignJames
I can hardly wait! It's almost like...like...Santa's coming!
You misspelled Satan.
;)
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Slumbering Behemoth Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:31:45pm |
re: #35 ggt
Thanks for the link, BTW.
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BignJames Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:32:25pm |
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Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:33:05pm |
/a song about her sister, Patti's softer side
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Wendya Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:33:59pm |
re: #16 sngnsgt
This is sick, now Hillary Clinton is apologizing for America. STFU Hilly!
I'm surprised she didn't apologize on behalf of the Brits for colonialism.
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The Hoopster Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:34:08pm |
History Channel at 2:30am help me lord...clicking ESPN...
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gmsc Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:34:59pm |
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Gus Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:37:08pm |
re: #51 HoosierHoops
History Channel at 2:30am help me lord...clicking ESPN...
What's on? "Were Aliens Really Behind the Attack on Pearl Harbor?"
/
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ggt Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:38:09pm |
re: #47 Slumbering Behemoth
Thanks for the link, BTW.
I forgot the link from the previous thread. It didn't survive my copy and paste exercise.
My apologizes.
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The Hoopster Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:39:16pm |
re: #53 Gus 802
What's on? "Were Aliens Really Behind the Attack on Pearl Harbor?"
/
I'm over watching movies...It's ESPN right now...Highlights!
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capitalist piglet Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:40:11pm |
re: #53 Gus 802
What's on? "Were Aliens Really Behind the Attack on Pearl Harbor?"
/
Probably something about Hitler. Hitler's Dogs. Hitler's Favorite Foods. Or Hitler's Third Cousin.
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gmsc Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:41:29pm |
re: #53 Gus 802
What's on? "Were Aliens Really Behind the Attack on Pearl Harbor?"
/
Well, we're pretty sure it wasn't the natives . . .
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Gus Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:41:55pm |
re: #57 capitalist piglet
Probably something about Hitler. Hitler's Dogs. Hitler's Favorite Foods. Or Hitler's Third Cousin.
Ha! My first guess was going to be Alien Diets. I was close. ;)
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Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:43:48pm |
re: #43 HoosierHoops
Careful- they could've changed currencies many times over between how and then (like any Latin American country worth their salt seems to do).
Having said that, the Iraqi Dinar's preformed fairly well the last couple of years.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:43:50pm |
re: #10 sngnsgt
Repost from the bottom of last thread, but it's fun:
I love this quote generator. Thanks.
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capitalist piglet Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:45:31pm |
re: #59 Gus 802
Ha! My first guess was going to be Alien Diets. I was close. ;)
Actually, I think it's something about the Kennedy assassination...I have it on in the next room (I am addicted to The History Channel, to tell you the truth). It does sort of get to be Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Adolf Hitler, But Were Afraid To Ask at times.
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Wendya Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:46:02pm |
re: #36 pbird
She looks that old too. See how stiffly she moves?
From March 2009:
She looks pretty damned good for 64.
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BignJames Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:46:51pm |
re: #59 Gus 802
Ha! My first guess was going to be Alien Diets. I was close. ;)
Ancient, ancient, very ancient mysteries. Undeneath, Underground Cities Reverse Engineering an Empire.
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Gus Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:47:49pm |
re: #63 capitalist piglet
Actually, I think it's something about the Kennedy assassination...I have it on in the next room (I am addicted to The History Channel, to tell you the truth). It does sort of get to be Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Adolf Hitler, But Were Afraid To Ask at times.
I was paging through a 1969 issue of Time while waiting in line at Safeway today. The last year of the tumultuous 60s. Lots of black and white photos. Had another Kennedy in there.
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The Hoopster Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:47:50pm |
re: #60 Fenway_Nation
Careful- they could've changed currencies many times over between how and then (like any Latin American country worth their salt seems to do).
Having said that, the Iraqi Dinar's preformed fairly well the last couple of years.
I got a buddy holding 20 million dollars worth of Dinars..He has a point...They have oil...hang out..The money will be good some day...LOL
Who knows? Good morning Lizards!
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capitalist piglet Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:49:48pm |
re: #66 Gus 802
I was paging through a 1969 issue of Time while waiting in line at Safeway today. The last year of the tumultuous 60s. Lots of black and white photos. Had another Kennedy in there.
Oh yeah...somebody's having an anniversary, isn't he?
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The Hoopster Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:50:22pm |
re: #66 Gus 802
I was paging through a 1969 issue of Time while waiting in line at Safeway today. The last year of the tumultuous 60s. Lots of black and white photos. Had another Kennedy in there.
I miss standing in line at a Safeway...Shut up!
*wink*
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gmsc Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:50:46pm |
re: #69 capitalist piglet
Oh yeah...somebody's having an anniversary, isn't he?
At least according to the commemorative Google logo, he is.
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Gus Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:50:49pm |
re: #69 capitalist piglet
Oh yeah...somebody's having an anniversary, isn't he?
Yeah, that was on the 18th or yesterday over here. 6/18/69
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Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:50:59pm |
re: #67 HoosierHoops
It's already up about 20% versus the dollar in the last 3 years. When did your friend get the 20 million Dinars?
/According to Yahoo finance, US$1 = 1158 Iraqi Dinars right now.
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capitalist piglet Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:52:06pm |
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Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:52:07pm |
re: #67 HoosierHoops
I got a buddy holding 20 million dollars worth of Dinars..He has a point...They have oil...hang out..The money will be good some day...LOL
Who knows? Good morning Lizards!
Countries regularly turn over their currency design for security purposes.
/use it or lose it, collector's item comes to mind
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gmsc Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:52:17pm |
re: #71 gmsc
At least according to the commemorative Google logo, he is.
...oh, and Volkwagen's ad campaign.
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The Hoopster Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:52:37pm |
re: #73 Fenway_Nation
It's already up about 20% versus the dollar in the last 3 years. When did your friend get the 20 million Dinars?
/According to Yahoo finance, US$1 = 1158 Iraqi Dinars right now.
A couple of years ago...
I collect money...It's a hobby...
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Gus Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:52:59pm |
re: #65 BignJames
Ancient, ancient, very ancient mysteries. Undeneath, Underground Cities Reverse Engineering an Empire.
That reminds me. I've watched Cities of the Underworld on Hulu. It's OK, too much "shaky cam" and the guy is always running or walking to fast. Ice Road Truckers kind of grew on me. Mail Call I've caught on Hulu too. I liked the one were R Lee flies in an F-15.
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Gus Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:55:14pm |
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capitalist piglet Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:55:16pm |
re: #76 gmsc
...oh, and Volkwagen's ad campaign.
Or the Chappaquiddick Triatholon: Drink. Drive. Swim.
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gmsc Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:56:00pm |
re: #74 capitalist piglet
That is awesome. LOL
My idea was simpler: Just change the name to "Gurgle" for 1 day.
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Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:57:11pm |
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Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:57:27pm |
re: #77 HoosierHoops
Back when I had a job, I showed up with a fistful of mostly worthless Argentine pesos to make a point. Not including the new ones I had, at one point they all were worth US$300. Then, as time dragged on, they were worth $30. Then they were barely worth $3. Keep in mind all of these pesos were printed in my liferime- so a little over 30 years.
The Argentine pesos I had that were still valid/circulating lost 67% of their value since I was there.
So out of this whole big stack of Argentine money, I had maybe what realisitcally was worth US$4...
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:00:00am |
Today in History, July 19th:
Click here to watch History.com's July 19th video.
Highlights of this day in history: Lucretia Mott and Elizabeth Cady Stanton open the Seneca Falls Convention, where they introduced the Declaration of Sentiments and began the push for the women's right to vote (And "bloomers" were first introduced). Winston Churchill inaugurates his "V for Victory" campaign in Europe. President George H. W. Bush uses his first veto to strike down funding for embryonic stem cell research. Rosetta Stone was discovered.
Other notable July 19th events include:
1553 – Lady Jane Grey is replaced by Mary I of England as Queen of England after having that title for just nine days.
1692 – Salem Witch Trials: Five women are hanged for witchcraft in Salem, Massachusetts.
1912 – A meteorite with an estimated mass of 190 kg explodes over the town of Holbrook in Navajo County, Arizona causing approximately 16,000 pieces of debris to rain down on the town.
1963 – Joe Walker flies a North American X-15 to a record altitude of 106,010 metres (347,800 feet) on X-15 Flight 90. Exceeding an altitude of 100 km, this flight qualifies as a human spaceflight under international convention.
1983 – The first three-dimensional reconstruction of a human head in a CT is published.
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:02:22am |
re: #83 Fenway_Nation
Back when I had a job, I showed up with a fistful of mostly worthless Argentine pesos to make a point. Not including the new ones I had, at one point they all were worth US$300. Then, as time dragged on, they were worth $30. Then they were barely worth $3. Keep in mind all of these pesos were printed in my liferime- so a little over 30 years.
The Argentine pesos I had that were still valid/circulating lost 67% of their value since I was there.
So out of this whole big stack of Argentine money, I had maybe what realisitcally was worth US$4...
LOL
I don't think you understand...For the last 20 years I've had a hobby to have every Coin and every bill from every country in the world...I've gone back to the 1600's when Walter rocked my world and sent me a coin from 3 AD...It is great fun
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Gus Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:02:33am |
re: #84 gmsc
Good old Joe Walker. Died in that collision with the XB-70 while flying chase in an F-104.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:06:18am |
re: #85 HoosierHoops
LOL
I don't think you understand...For the last 20 years I've had a hobby to have every Coin and every bill from every country in the world...I've gone back to the 1600's when Walter rocked my world and sent me a coin from 3 AD...It is great fun
/if it has value, make sure it's documented for insurance purposes
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ggt Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:06:36am |
I have to sleep all. Am taking a road-trip and won't have internet connection (probably) for a few days. Have a great week and . . .
weet dreams!
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:07:26am |
re: #88 ggt
I have to sleep all. Am taking a road-trip and won't have internet connection (probably) for a few days. Have a great week and . . .
weet dreams!
Good Night
weet dreams!
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:07:41am |
Highlights of this day in history: Lucretia Mott and Elizabeth Cady Stanton open the Seneca Falls Convention, where they introduced the Declaration of Sentiments and began the push for the women's right to vote (And "bloomers" were first introduced).
What a great day for women!
1692 – Salem Witch Trials: Five women are hanged for witchcraft in Salem, Massachusetts.
What a rotten day for women!
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:07:58am |
re: #82 Killian Bundy
Chew on it, world citizen.
/feel free to not link in response
CBO Scores Confirm Deficit Neutrality of Health Insurance Reform Bill
News from the Energy & Commerce, Ways & Means, and Education & Labor Committees on the CBO estimates released last night on America’s Affordable Health Choices Act:July 17, 2009
Washington, D.C. — The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) released estimates this evening confirming for the first time that H.R. 3200, America’s Affordable Health Choices Act, is deficit neutral over the 10-year budget window - and even produces a $6 billion surplus. CBO estimated more than $550 billion in gross Medicare and Medicaid savings. More importantly, the bill includes a comprehensive array of delivery reforms to set the stage for lowering the future growth in health care costs.
Net Medicare and Medicaid savings of $465 billion, coupled with the $583 billion revenue package reported today by the House Committee on Ways and Means, fully finance the previously estimated $1.042 trillion cost of reform, which will provide affordable health care coverage for 97% of Americans.
[Link: speaker.house.gov...]
Reality once again reveals its liberal bias. :)
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:08:08am |
re: #88 ggt
I have to sleep all. Am taking a road-trip and won't have internet connection (probably) for a few days. Have a great week and . . .
weet dreams!
G'Nite, ggt!
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:10:23am |
re: #93 HoosierHoops
Hi Ice! how are you this fine day?
Hey, handsome! :)
Just fine here. Thrilled that the guys who created League of Gentlemen (well, two of them) have a new show-- the Psychoville clip Charles posted earlier.
What's up with you?
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Gus Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:10:23am |
re: #84 gmsc
Walker was alongside Neil Armstrong for the X-15 flights. Here's a great photo showing Neil on the left and 2nd from the left next to Neil is Walker.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:10:33am |
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:11:21am |
re: #96 Killian Bundy
That's a Blinky office link.
/try linking to the CBO
Find it yourself. It's their press release.
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:12:55am |
re: #84 gmsc
July 19th, 1989 the Sioux City crash. I will always remember that date because my twin daughters were born the day before. I watched it in my wifes hospital room.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:13:02am |
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:13:18am |
re: #94 iceweasel
Hey, handsome! :)
Just fine here. Thrilled that the guys who created League of Gentlemen (well, two of them) have a new show-- the Psychoville clip Charles posted earlier.
What's up with you?
Hi sweetheart... watching sports high lights on TV...How are you?
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:13:41am |
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:14:12am |
re: #99 BatGuano
July 19th, 1989 the Sioux City crash. I will always remember that date because my twin daughters were born the day before. I watched it in my wifes hospital room.
Bat how is your mom? And how are you?
ps lgf running slow for me, computer might crash
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:14:45am |
re: #40 Fenway_Nation
I have a silver Italian coin from the late 19th century and a Kennedy silver half-dollar I got as change from a Chevron station a few months ago.
i've got a cold beer i got from the bbq refrigerator...
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:14:48am |
re: #100 iceweasel
It's the CBO's press release.
It's written by "Karina"...It's not sourced ...it is not a press release from the CBO.
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Fenway_Nation Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:15:03am |
re: #97 iceweasel
Oh goodie...Maybe Nancy's blog will have something about how I'm supposed to get a 'green-collar' job through cap & trade.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:16:11am |
re: #97 iceweasel
Find it yourself. It's their press release.
No, it's a Blinky press release, not within sniffing distance of the CBO.
/does your love of Blinky, from overseas, cloud your judgment?
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Fenway_Nation Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:16:16am |
re: #104 redc1c4
I tend to invest in the most liquid of investments, red.
Silver.
Specifically Bacardi Silver.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:17:18am |
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swamprat Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:17:38am |
re: #91 iceweasel
They predict a $6 billion dollar surplus in the program.
I predict monkeys will sprout wings and fly before this occurs.
Of course inflation might mean an adjusted value where 6 billion, (at the time of surplus), in todays' money would equal $43.79.
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:18:59am |
re: #106 BignJames
It's written by "Karina"...It's not sourced ...it is not a press release from the CBO.
but it supports his position, you big meanie!
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:19:14am |
re: #112 swamprat
They predict a $6 billion dollar surplus in the program.
I predict monkeys will sprout wings and fly before this occurs.
Of course inflation might mean an adjusted value where 6 billion, (at the time of surplus), in todays' money would equal $43.79.
You mean they can't?...But I saw it on tv.
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:19:27am |
re: #110 Fenway_Nation
I tend to invest in the most liquid of investments, red.
Silver.
Specifically Bacardi Silver.
so you don't like good rum, eh?
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:19:32am |
re: #111 Killian Bundy
/in your dreams
Your nightmares, Killian Bully.
PDF from the CBO:
[Link: www.cbo.gov...]
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:19:50am |
re: #103 iceweasel
Bat how is your mom? And how are you?
ps lgf running slow for me, computer might crash
Mom is hanging in there and starting to eat a bit more. I'm hanging in there and starting to drink a bit less. Thank you for asking. :)
P.S. as a wise woman once said. SHOOT YOUR COMPUTER! :)
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:20:26am |
re: #107 Fenway_Nation
Oh goodie...Maybe Nancy's blog will have something about how I'm supposed to get a 'green-collar' job through cap & trade.
it'd be fun to hack it and post nekid pictures of Granny Ricttus McBotoxface on it...
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:20:35am |
re: #112 swamprat
They predict a $6 billion dollar surplus in the program.
I predict monkeys will sprout wings and fly before this occurs.
Of course inflation might mean an adjusted value where 6 billion, (at the time of surplus), in todays' money would equal $43.79.
Exactly. I think we have to be suspicious of anything that attempts to predict costs of something so massive over such a long period of time.
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Gus Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:21:35am |
During the Apollo 11 mission, members of the Lunar International Observer Network (LION) made continuous observations of a lunar area where illuminations had been noted. At 18:45 GMT (2:45 p.m. EDT), the astronauts sighted an illumination in the Aristarchus region, the first time that a lunar transient event was sighted by an observer in space. The sighting was confirmed by a LION observer in West Germany.
NASA OMSF, "Manned Space Flight Weekly Report - August 11, 1969."
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swamprat Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:22:33am |
re: #120 iceweasel
Exactly. I think we have to be suspicious of anything that attempts to predict costs of something so massive over such a long period of time.
Yeah, we wouldn't want to take something on face value, without checking it out.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:23:01am |
re: #118 BatGuano
Mom is hanging in there and starting to eat a bit more. I'm hanging in there and starting to drink a bit less. Thank you for asking. :)
P.S. as a wise woman once said. SHOOT YOUR COMPUTER! :)
Very glad to hear it. Your Mom sounds like a strong lady, and I know you're strong too. :)
I may have to shoot my computer, arrrgh. LGF is not loading at all...
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:23:41am |
re: #122 swamprat
Yeah, we wouldn't want to take something on face value, without checking it out.
Yeah, like an IBD editorial or something. That would be bad.
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:24:10am |
re: #120 iceweasel
Exactly. I think we have to be suspicious of anything that attempts to predict costs of something so massive over such a long period of time.
I have a buddy in the Netherlands..It's a small country but Health Care works well there... You pay 150 Euro for Health care..If you are unemployed it still comes out of your check...Everybody pays period...
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capitalist piglet Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:24:49am |
HEY HEY
HO HO
DECENT HEALTHCARE
HAS TO GO
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Fenway_Nation Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:28:22am |
New and Improved 0bamahealthcare! ™
Brought to you by the folks who gave us, America: The Simulus! ™
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:28:41am |
re: #127 redc1c4
Of course, that's about the whole budget, under current law-- i.e., before any health care reform.
But I'm sure you know that.
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:28:47am |
Penn Jillette talks about health care (yeah, it's Glenn Beck, but watch anyway):
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:30:28am |
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Fenway_Nation Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:30:55am |
re: #129 redc1c4
But at least it's a cozy, tastefully appointed den.
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:31:18am |
re: #130 iceweasel
Of course, that's about the whole budget, under current law-- i.e., before any health care reform.
But I'm sure you know that.
IOW, you didn't read the article...
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:31:33am |
re: #117 iceweasel
Your nightmares, Killian Bully.
PDF from the CBO:
[Link: www.cbo.gov...]
Did you actually read this? Projecting savings thru cuts and freezes in Medicare? Increasing numbers of Drs. across the country are refusing new/dumoing Medicare patients now because of slow/inadequate/none Medicare payments. Wow...this is gonna be some kind of great health care!
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Gus Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:31:43am |
re: #131 gmsc
Penn Jillette talks about health care (yeah, it's Glenn Beck, but watch anyway):
[Video]
Stossel's great. I think he's still pissed off about the whole ABC/White House/Healthcare thing.
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swamprat Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:32:54am |
(with apologies to Les Mis "Master of the House"
Welcome my friends
Sit yourself down
And meet the best
Party in town
As for the rest
All of crooks
Culture of corruption
It’s all on the books
Seldom do you see
Honest girls like me
A gal without a scowl
Who’s content to be
Speaker of the House
Dolling out the smiles
Giving to the lazy
With open palm
Bring the troops home
End this stupid war
Americans appreciate a liberal
Glad to do a guy a favor
Doesn’t hurt me to be nice
But nothing gets you nothing
Everything has got a little price
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:33:38am |
re: #136 BignJames
Did you actually read this? Projecting savings thru cuts and freezes in Medicare? Increasing numbers of Drs. across the country are refusing new/dumoing Medicare patients now because of slow/inadequate/none Medicare payments. Wow...this is gonna be some kind of great health care!
/unicorns. damnit
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:33:41am |
re: #136 BignJames
Did you actually read this? Projecting savings thru cuts and freezes in Medicare? Increasing numbers of Drs. across the country are refusing new/dumoing Medicare patients now because of slow/inadequate/none Medicare payments. Wow...this is gonna be some kind of great health care!
can s/he/it actually read, at least for comprehension?
both the Magic Eight Ball and experience indicate 'not likely'
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freetoken Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:33:46am |
re: #128 Fenway_Nation
Brought to you by the folks who gave us, America: The Simulus! ™
Well, just think of what it would have been like to have been brought, America: The Simulacrum!
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:34:02am |
re: #137 Gus 802
Stossel's great. I think he's still pissed off about the whole ABC/White House/Healthcare thing.
I like the concept of "food insurance". We have a "grocery insurance" crisis in this country!
We need 0bama-mart to save us all! After all, isn't food a right?
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:35:15am |
re: #142 gmsc
I like the concept of "food insurance". We have a "grocery insurance" crisis in this country!
We need 0bama-mart to save us all! After all, isn't food a right?
how about an Obamasphere, so protect our right to breathe?
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Gus Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:36:00am |
re: #142 gmsc
I like the concept of "food insurance". We have a "grocery insurance" crisis in this country!
We need 0bama-mart to save us all! After all, isn't food a right?
Heard that -- good point. Interesting that you mention Obama-Mart because Wal-Mart is signing on to Obama-Care. That should raise some eye brows or at least indicate a serious warning.
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:36:22am |
re: #143 redc1c4
how about an Obamasphere, so protect our right to breathe?
There you go!
0bama can do it! He'll stop the climate from changing!
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:37:00am |
re: #142 gmsc
I like the concept of "food insurance". We have a "grocery insurance" crisis in this country!
We need 0bama-mart to save us all! After all, isn't food a right?
come to think of it, if we have an Obama-mart to get our food, every house will need an Obama-mode, to return that food for recycling...
now *there* is one change i hope they push through!
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capitalist piglet Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:37:03am |
re: #140 redc1c4
can s/he/it actually read, at least for comprehension?
both the Magic Eight Ball and experience indicate 'not likely'
Careful. You may cause someone to take offence.
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:38:14am |
re: #139 Killian Bundy
/unicorns. damnit
Aren't they always saying they're reality based? Isn't that one of their mantras?
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:38:39am |
re: #147 capitalist piglet
Careful. You may cause someone to take offence.
That's true! And isn't not being offended a right? The liberals told me so!
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:39:22am |
re: #136 BignJames
Did you actually read this? /blockquote>
/no. just told to post it
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:39:45am |
re: #147 capitalist piglet
Careful. You may cause someone to take offence.
horrors! that would ruin my perfect record after all these years on the Internet and in Usenet...
what was i thinking?
/white smoke
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capitalist piglet Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:39:51am |
re: #149 gmsc
That's true! And isn't not being offended a right? The liberals told me so!
You must have learned that at university.
(Okay, I'll stop with the euro-snark now.)
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:39:56am |
re: #148 BignJames
Aren't they always saying they're reality based? Isn't that one of their mantras?
Send us some of your global warming damn it! It's the middle of summer and cool here...*wink*
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:40:45am |
re: #148 BignJames
Aren't they always saying they're reality based? Isn't that one of their mantras?
the issue starts with their choice of 'reality', and it's lack of congruency with observable data.
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:40:56am |
re: #147 capitalist piglet
Careful. You may cause someone to take offence.
Is that the same as offense?
/I like the winged t...for college anyway.
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:41:41am |
re: #153 HoosierHoops
Send us some of your global warming damn it! It's the middle of summer and cool here...*wink*
Sounds like your area needs some of that evil industrial revolution stuff! Before that, the climate never used to change - so if you want it to change, just start an industrial revolution!
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Slumbering Behemoth Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:41:45am |
re: #131 gmsc
Penn Jillette talks about health care (yeah, it's Glenn Beck, but watch anyway):
[Video]
Heh. Glenn's own words, referring to himself and his guests: "There are three libertarians, on television! At once"!
Yet there are some who bullheadedly insist he is either a True RepublicanTM, or a True ConservativeTM.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:42:03am |
re: #149 gmsc
That's true! And isn't not being offended a right? The liberals told me so!
You missed the spelling nuance.
/it's not from around here, yet lectures us anyway
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:43:47am |
Anti-Obamacare Protesters Take the Streets, Democrats Panic
Donald Douglas reports at American Power:
Today was another big day for the national tea party movement.
Turnout was robust around the country, although some protesters were met with harrassment and profanity. Michelle Malkin and Glenn Reynolds have reports. Plus, at Pajamas Media TV, Amy Kremer of TeaPartyPatriots.org (see, “Nationwide Protests Target ObamaCare: The People Say No to Gov’t Run Healthcare”). Also via Instapundit, “Bureaucrash at the Healthcare Freedom Tea Party Protest” (YouTube).
For the Democratic pushback, see Gateway Pundit, “McCaskill’s Office Locks Doors, Pulls Blinds, Calls Cops & Forces Obamacare Protesters Off Public Property.” And The Rhetorican, “The Great Tea Offensive.”
I attended a protest rally at Democratic Representative Loretta Sanchez’s office in Garden Grove. That’s me with the House GOP’s “Organizational Chart of the House Democrats’ Health Plan.” Megan Barth is with me in the second photo. She organized the event and created the awesome protest signs.
Go to Donald’s place for more links, pics, etc.
The tea party-movement is really catching on. And it has succeeded in changing the dynamics in America already. Obama’s approval ratings are dropping fast, for instance. Only 52% of voters say they approve somewhat. This was much higher only a few months ago.
The reason? Well, Obama has proved to be a true liberal. A hardcore leftist, this even though he campaigned as a moderate.
Furthermore, and the tea party movement deserves a lot of respect for that, fiscal conservatives have wasted little time pointing out the rather obvious to their fellow countrymen. If it was up to the media, Obama would have gotten away with every single far-left plan he can think of. The tea party protesters - and others of course - did what the media should have done, namely to educate (other) voters about the downsides of every single one of Obama’s plans.
Respect.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:43:57am |
re: #155 BignJames
Is that the same as offense?
/I like the winged t...for college anyway.
/at University, have those words ever passed an American's lips?
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:44:20am |
re: #153 HoosierHoops
Send us some of your global warming damn it! It's the middle of summer and cool here...*wink*
you can have some of ours... it's supposed to hit 98 here, which is hot, but not intolerable, except that the system is drawing up moisture from south of us, and the humidity is a ridiculous, for us, 30% or so... yuck.
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:44:33am |
re: #158 Killian Bundy
You missed the spelling nuance.
/it's not from around here, yet lectures us anyway
As per a overzealous spelling correction last night, I am prevented from correcting any spellings tonight.
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:45:41am |
re: #156 gmsc
Sounds like your area needs some of that evil industrial revolution stuff! Before that, the climate never used to change - so if you want it to change, just start an industrial revolution!
They've taken care of that too...with no economy to speak of there's no need for a manufacturing base, hence no "greenhouse emissions".
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capitalist piglet Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:45:59am |
re: #155 BignJames
Is that the same as offense?
/I like the winged t...for college anyway.
Well, yes. I suppose I should explain.
There are people pushing for socialized medicine here who have a habit of spelling words in ways more commonly associated with other countries, but who resist divulging what dog they have in this hunt, so to speak.
So I snarked about it a little bit ("offence"/"at university"), and now I'll go say fifty Hail Obamas to make up for it.
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:46:03am |
re: #156 gmsc
Sounds like your area needs some of that evil industrial revolution stuff! Before that, the climate never used to change - so if you want it to change, just start an industrial revolution!
Dang climate change..Too cold to swim today..Hard to believe that the climate changes...
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:46:32am |
re: #160 Killian Bundy
/at University, have those words ever passed an American's lips?
only if they were reading a script. %-)
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:47:23am |
re: #162 gmsc
As per a overzealous spelling correction last night, I am prevented from correcting any spellings tonight.
yer welcome to correct mines: i'll jes ignor you.
%-)
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:48:27am |
re: #164 capitalist piglet
Well, yes. I suppose I should explain.
There are people pushing for socialized medicine here who have a habit of spelling words in ways more commonly associated with other countries, but who resist divulging what dog they have in this hunt, so to speak.
So I snarked about it a little bit ("offence"/"at university"), and now I'll go say fifty Hell with Obamas to make up for it.
FTFY!
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:48:52am |
re: #167 redc1c4
yer welcome to correct mines: i'll jes ignor you.
%-)
/Spell check on
/ Idiot check off
/story of my life
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:49:54am |
re: #165 HoosierHoops
Dang climate change..Too cold to swim today..Hard to believe that the climate changes...
didn't pull the thermometer up today, but i'll wager my pool is north of 100*...
the cover makes it hot as hell, but we don't get 4 digit bills from the DWP either.
/tradeoffs
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capitalist piglet Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:50:14am |
re: #162 gmsc
As per a overzealous spelling correction last night, I am prevented from correcting any spellings tonight.
My spelling "error" was deliberate. (See #164.)
My math skills are weak (I know, I know...you are going to hate me now), but I can spell! : )
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:50:31am |
re: #160 Killian Bundy
/at University, have those words ever passed an American's lips?
And most don't go "on holiday" or "to hospital" either.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:51:42am |
re: #130 iceweasel
Geez, just tell us that you're a U.S. citizen.
/lie if you have to, you've been given every opportunity
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:52:10am |
re: #173 BignJames
And most don't go "on holiday" or "to hospital" either.
s/he/its welcome try "to hell" instead.
we're keeping Texas. %-)
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:52:22am |
re: #164 capitalist piglet
Offense, offence. One is a verb one is a noun. they both work.
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:52:57am |
re: #171 redc1c4
didn't pull the thermometer up today, but i'll wager my pool is north of 100*...
the cover makes it hot as hell, but we don't get 4 digit bills from the DWP either.
/tradeoffs
Good morning! The Hot tub is 104...
The pool is cooler than heck.
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:53:27am |
181![]() |
redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:54:40am |
surtax on the wealthy... yeah, like *that* will w*rk.
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:56:36am |
185![]() |
gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:57:03am |
re: #62 Killian Bundy
So, who's going to chant iceweasel three times and click their heels?
[Video]/ain't gonna be me
That's not how you get iceweasel to come out. This is the way.
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:57:37am |
re: #183 BatGuano
A web site that fucks up spelling? I can do that mysefl!
Updinged for the extra-nice touch!
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:58:04am |
re: #183 BatGuano
A web site that fucks up spelling? I can do that mysefl!
supposedly, as long as the first and last letters are correct, the brain will recognize the word...
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:59:17am |
re: #175 Killian Bundy
Geez, just tell us that you're a U.S. citizen.
/lie if you have to, you've been given every opportunity
Please KB.do we have to do this again? Another war on a late night thread?
Please..I love you dude..Show some grace towards our visitors and new lizards...K?
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:59:25am |
re: #187 redc1c4
supposedly, as long as the first and last letters are correct, the brain will recognize the word...
My brain won't!
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:00:00am |
re: #185 gmsc
That's not how you get iceweasel to come out. This is the way.
i remember when that strip came out... back when i was young and had a future.
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Gus Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:01:20am |
re: #189 BatGuano
My brain won't!
Were will this tread go if your brain don't work? Your going to half too make a choice.
//
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:01:28am |
re: #188 HoosierHoops
Please KB.do we have to do this again? Another war on a late night thread?
Please..I love you dude..Show some grace towards our visitors and new lizards...K?
go get'em KB! take no prisoners!!!
i've only gotten one rat tonight, so i'm low on my production.
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:01:37am |
re: #190 redc1c4
i remember when that strip came out... back when i was young and had a future.
That strip came out so long ago that the entire country still had a future.
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:01:49am |
re: #190 redc1c4
i remember when that strip came out... back when i was young and had a future.
I was young and had a future,
Now I'm old and have a denture.
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Slumbering Behemoth Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:03:06am |
re: #175 Killian Bundy
Fer fuck's sake. Kick her ass on points of fact and political philosophies, but this "show me your papers" shit seems like it is becoming an obsession with you, and it is going nowhere.
It should be obvious by now, hammering that nail is fruitless.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:04:44am |
re: #188 HoosierHoops
Please KB.do we have to do this again? Another war on a late night thread?
Please..I love you dude..Show some grace towards our visitors and new lizards...K?
Personally, I don't appreciate being lectured by foreigners with no skin in the game.
/it's a simple question, aimed at the deliberate obfuscation, a dichotomy, U.S. citizen or not, surely that's not too intrusive an inquiry
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:04:49am |
re: #195 Slumbering Behemoth
Fer fuck's sake. Kick her ass on points of fact and political philosophies, but this "show me your papers" shit seems like it is becoming an obsession with you, and it is going nowhere.
It should be obvious by now, hammering that nail is fruitless.
maybe it's a screw?
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:07:23am |
re: #198 redc1c4
maybe it's a screw?
Screw: An inclined plane twisted into a shaft.
(I invented that in another thread)
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:08:19am |
re: #164 capitalist piglet
Well, yes. I suppose I should explain.
There are people pushing for socialized medicine here who have a habit of spelling words in ways more commonly associated with other countries, but who resist divulging what dog they have in this hunt, so to speak.
So I snarked about it a little bit ("offence"/"at university"), and now I'll go say fifty Hail Obamas to make up for it.
I'm not pushing for socialised medicine.
BTW, folks, this should be obvious, but posting a link to the CBO's analysis doesn't mean I endorse the contents-- anymore than Charles posting a link to a google cache of something stupid Robert Spencer has done means that he 'endorses' Robert Spencer.
It's the CBO's projection. There it is.
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:09:26am |
re: #200 iceweasel
I'm not pushing for socialised medicine.
BTW, folks, this should be obvious, but posting a link to the CBO's analysis doesn't mean I endorse the contents-- anymore than Charles posting a link to a google cache of something stupid Robert Spencer has done means that he 'endorses' Robert Spencer.
It's the CBO's projection. There it is.
and yet you ignored everything that refuted your post...
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:09:52am |
re: #197 Killian Bundy
it's a simple question, aimed at the deliberate obfuscation, a dichotomy, U.S. citizen or not, surely that's not too intrusive an inquiry
/and there will be no answer forthcoming, even a lie, what does that tell you?
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:10:55am |
re: #202 Killian Bundy
/and there will be no answer forthcoming, even a lie, what does that tell you?
that it's time for bootleg fruitcup?
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:13:10am |
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:13:24am |
re: #200 iceweasel
I'm not pushing for socialised medicine.
BTW, folks, this should be obvious, but posting a link to the CBO's analysis doesn't mean I endorse the contents-- anymore than Charles posting a link to a google cache of something stupid Robert Spencer has done means that he 'endorses' Robert Spencer.
Then what is it? Just whatever Obama wants? Uncritically?It's the CBO's projection. There it is.
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Slumbering Behemoth Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:13:37am |
re: #196 redc1c4
Ha! Worry not, Great Red. I seek only to consume your beer, and not your immortal soul.
/seriously, gotta beer?
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:13:57am |
re: #204 redc1c4
FRUITCUP!!!
and not that watered down stuff either.
I've had your fruitcup and my ass still burns. I'm waiting for littleoldlady.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:13:58am |
re: #125 HoosierHoops
I have a buddy in the Netherlands..It's a small country but Health Care works well there... You pay 150 Euro for Health care..If you are unemployed it still comes out of your check...Everybody pays period...
hey Hoops-- sorry but my computer crashed twice while I tried to answer you! Something's wrong here; I can't even read all comments.
I'm glad your buddy is getting good health care. The US plan of course isn't going to be one where all medicine is socialised; no one is proposing that. And I have severe doubts that we'll wind up with a good plan by the time it limps its way through Congress.
Also, there's a rumour that the BlueDogs are talking to the GOP about endorsing their version of health care reform; if that's true then Obama care is dead in the water.
(apologies to others if I haven't answered you yet; i'm having computer issues here)
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:14:12am |
re: #197 Killian Bundy
Personally, I don't appreciate being lectured by foreigners with no skin in the game.
/it's a simple question, aimed at the deliberate obfuscation, a dichotomy, U.S. citizen or not, surely that's not too intrusive an inquiry
Like I said..i love you dude...I hope today finds you well...
I am a fair man.. I have never seen Ice lecture anyone here at anytime with any post...
Period...any link? Let's drop it ok?
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:15:20am |
re: #208 BatGuano
I've had your fruitcup and my ass still burns. I'm waiting for littleoldlady.
you're supposed to take it orally... pervert.
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:15:46am |
re: #208 BatGuano
I've had your fruitcup and my ass still burns. I'm waiting for littleoldlady.
Uhhh...what exactly did you do with that fruitcup?
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:15:54am |
re: #207 Slumbering Behemoth
Ha! Worry not, Great Red. I seek only to consume your beer, and not your immortal soul.
/seriously, gotta beer?
always...
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:16:10am |
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:17:23am |
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redc1c4 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:17:33am |
hasta y'all... i've still got homew*rk to finish for school monday..
stay on crapweasle for me
L8r!
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Syrah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:17:58am |
. . . Then we can socialize Dentistry so that we can all have teeth that look as good as the English.
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Slumbering Behemoth Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:18:38am |
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:18:45am |
re: #195 Slumbering Behemoth
Fer fuck's sake. Kick her ass on points of fact and political philosophies, but this "show me your papers" shit seems like it is becoming an obsession with you, and it is going nowhere.
It should be obvious by now, hammering that nail is fruitless.
You're a good guy. Let's post some triphop and have a happy thread!
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:19:19am |
re: #216 redc1c4
hasta y'all... i've still got homew*rk to finish for school monday..
stay on crapweasle for me
L8r!
That's witty.
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:19:31am |
re: #217 Syrah
. . . Then we can socialize Dentistry so that we can all have teeth that look as good as the English.
...or we could even socialise it!
;)
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Slumbering Behemoth Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:19:39am |
re: #208 BatGuano
I've had your fruitcup and my ass still burns. I'm waiting for littleoldlady.
DUDE! That's not fruitcup, that's... well, it didn't come from Red, anyway.
/
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:20:28am |
re: #217 Syrah
. . . Then we can socialize Dentistry so that we can all have teeth that look as good as the English.
Does that include our teeth being different colours?
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:20:39am |
re: #221 gmsc
...or we could even socialise it!
;)
Obama taxed all my z's, and the extra 's' s are all for Socialism. :(
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Syrah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:20:43am |
re: #221 gmsc
...or we could even socialise it!
;)
The z gives it more of a metallic science fiction "evil" sound.
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:22:25am |
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:22:35am |
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capitalist piglet Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:23:30am |
re: #200 iceweasel
I'm not pushing for socialised medicine.
BTW, folks, this should be obvious, but posting a link to the CBO's analysis doesn't mean I endorse the contents-- anymore than Charles posting a link to a google cache of something stupid Robert Spencer has done means that he 'endorses' Robert Spencer.
It's the CBO's projection. There it is.
I find many your posts deliberately obtuse, iceweasel. Including this one.
I don't know how anyone could have read your remarks on this topic from last night's thread and not come away with the impression that you were an advocate for an overhaul of our health care system.
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Syrah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:24:05am |
re: #223 gmsc
Does that include our teeth being different colours?
That is pretty much par for the course. When it is all socialized, no one will be allowed to get any kind of cosmetic treatment. teeth whiteners will be right out.
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:24:05am |
re: #225 Syrah
The z gives it more of a metallic science fiction "evil" sound.
Then it also needs those pointless heavy metal umlauts.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:24:33am |
re: #228 Killian Bundy
Are you a U.S. citizen, 57 states to choose from?
/I'm a U.S citizen
When did it become a rule that you have to be a US citizen to post here?
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:24:42am |
re: #230 Syrah
That is pretty much par for the course. When it is all socialized, no one will be allowed to get any kind of cosmetic treatment. teeth whiteners will be right out.
Oh, right - because they're just another way for the man to keep the black teeth down.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:24:50am |
re: #210 HoosierHoops
Like I said..i love you dude...I hope today finds you well...
I am a fair man.. I have never seen Ice lecture anyone here at anytime with any post...
Period...any link? Let's drop it ok?
/and do you have a problem disclosing your citizenship?
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:25:26am |
re: #229 capitalist piglet
I find many your posts deliberately obtuse, iceweasel. Including this one.
I don't know how anyone could have read your remarks on this topic from last night's thread and not come away with the impression that you were an advocate for an overhaul of our health care system.
I advocate an overhaul of our health care system.
So do many people.
That doesn't mean I advocate 'socialised medicine'.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:26:50am |
re: #232 iceweasel
When did it become a rule that you have to be a US citizen to post here?
Thank you. You don't.
/your TOTUS worship is now put in perspective
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Gus Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:29:05am |
re: #233 gmsc
Oh, right - because they're just another way for the man to keep the black teeth down.
Hey, I was wondering. Am I imaging things or isn't the LNDT supposed to be about shooting the breeze and talking about "stuff?" This is like the second night on Obamacare and it's starting to remind me of the mornings.
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:30:19am |
re: #237 Gus 802
Hey, I was wondering. Am I imaging things or isn't the LNDT supposed to be about shooting the breeze and talking about "stuff?" This is like the second night on Obamacare and it's starting to remind me of the mornings.
You're right.
I'll take the cue and step down. We do have the day threads for that.
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:30:39am |
re: #238 gmsc
You're right.
I'll take the cue and step down. We do have the day threads for that.
Not leaving, mind you - just stepping down from the discussion.
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Gus Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:31:18am |
re: #238 gmsc
You're right.
I'll take the cue and step down. We do have the day threads for that.
I wasn't specifically thinking about you. ;) I know last night I kind of fell into it and got a little carried away.
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capitalist piglet Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:31:34am |
re: #239 gmsc
Not leaving, mind you - just stepping down from the discussion.
Okay, me too. (And I had a dandy post composed. : )
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:31:35am |
re: #236 Killian Bundy
Thank you. You don't.
/your TOTUS worship is now put in perspective
I have many criticisms of Obama. It's ludicrous to say I 'worship' him, or indeed any politician.
It's also ludicrous for you to pretend you know anything about where I am, or am not, a citizen, based on the above.
BTW, there isn't any mystery here. I have no problem volunteering this info. I object to people demanding it of me.
You don't like my opinions, fine. That's no reason to go on a witch-hunt trying to determine whether I am, or am not, a US citizen. It doesn't validate or invalidate my arguments. All it does is derail a thread and detract from any possibility of having a discussion about an actual issue-- like for example, the details of Obama's health care plan and whether it's a good plan.
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Gus Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:32:12am |
re: #241 capitalist piglet
Okay, me too. (And I had a dandy post composed. : )
Now if all conversation stops it will be all my fault. =]
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Syrah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:33:46am |
Asking only out of curiosity.
Whats with the z and s issue with Socialized medicine?
Wiki shows it with the Z. Open Office spell checker works with the z. Does it really mater? Won't we all be dead in the long run anyway? Why shouldn't we trash our economic system for a few goodies now since we are living only for today? "Carpe diem" and "screw the kids and the grand kids so long as I get mine" and all of that?
What have I missed?
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:33:46am |
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Wendya Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:33:56am |
re: #91 iceweasel
[Link: speaker.house.gov...]
Reality once again reveals its liberal bias. :)
Pelosi has lost her mind.
Congress's chief budget analyst delivered a devastating assessment yesterday of the health-care proposals drafted by congressional Democrats, fueling an insurrection among fiscal conservatives in the House and pushing negotiators in the Senate to redouble efforts to draw up a new plan that more effectively restrains federal spending.
Under questioning by members of the Senate Budget Committee, Douglas Elmendorf, director of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, said bills crafted by House leaders and the Senate health committee do not propose "the sort of fundamental changes" necessary to rein in the skyrocketing cost of government health programs, particularly Medicare. On the contrary, Elmendorf said, the measures would pile on an expensive new program to cover the uninsured.
Though President Obama and Democratic leaders have repeatedly pledged to alter the soaring trajectory -- or cost curve -- of federal health spending, the proposals so far would not meet that goal, Elmendorf said, noting, "The curve is being raised." His remarks suggested that rather than averting a looming fiscal crisis, the measures could make the nation's bleak budget outlook even worse.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
From the actual CBO report:
In total, CBO estimates that enacting those provisions would raise deficits by $1,042 billion over the 2010-2019 period.2
Pelosi should have been a writer for Pravda back in the days of the former Soviet Union.
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Slumbering Behemoth Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:34:16am |
re: #219 iceweasel
I try. I certainly can't agree with you on some of your positions, but I think we can agree on Portishead.
Meh, you have a point of view on some things that run contrary to most here, including myself. I don't think that makes you a troll. I also see that you derive a certain amount of pleasure in confounding those that constantly demand you list your "bona fides". I think their efforts would be better spent on debating your positions.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:35:16am |
re: #242 iceweasel
I am, or am not, a US citizen
/if not, what the [expletive deleted] business do you have opining on the subject?
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:41:03am |
re: #248 Killian Bundy
/if not, what the [expletive deleted] business do you have opining on the subject?
Because Ice has an opinion about it...You got a problem with that pal?
I didn't see you signed an American membership card when you came here..
Ice has never attacked you so back the fuck off...Personal attacks are not welcome...You feeling me KB? be nice and post ideas and thoughts...
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:42:24am |
re: #247 Slumbering Behemoth
I try. I certainly can't agree with you on some of your positions, but I think we can agree on Portishead.
Meh, you have a point of view on some things that run contrary to most here, including myself. I don't think that makes you a troll. I also see that you derive a certain amount of pleasure in confounding those that constantly demand you list your "bona fides". I think their efforts would be better spent on debating your positions.
Love the Portishead, love love.
As to your last sentence-- some people aren't even interested in debating positions, or in determining what mine are specifically-- they assume I looove Obama, and I looove Pelosi. Or they want to have a fight with someone who holds those views, so they find it convenient to attribute those views to me.
In point of fact, I can't stand pelosi and I have a lot of criticisms of Obama-- from the left side of the spectrum.
And I do enjoy refusing to answer these questions about my bona fides, because those questions never end even when I've answered them. That's kind of strange, and reveals that the object of the questioner isn't polite interest or curiosity, but some kind of witch-hunt and a demand to see my papers.
I understand now why Obama won't dignify people who ask about his birth certificate with further answer.
But, this is the cool LNDT, so let's post videos and have a nice chat. I think lots of us can get along in many ways without needing to march in lock-step politically. :)
Here's some Massive Attack!
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Syrah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:42:32am |
re: #249 BatGuano
With a "Z" it is a British ism.
I see.
The online dictionaries do not seem to be so definitive.
I wonder if this is a change in the linguistics that is coming about do to the ubiquity of online communications. I would expect there to be a softening of minor spelling variations such as with the Z or even with the U in that they ad to color colour. Open Office doesn't like the u.
A homogenizing of the various English forms in the Anglosphere could be in process.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:44:03am |
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:44:40am |
re: #251 HoosierHoops
Because Ice has an opinion about it...
With every opinion there's motivation.
/and foreign motivations pique my interest
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Wendya Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:46:24am |
re: #252 iceweasel
some kind of witch-hunt and a demand to see my papers.I understand now why Obama won't dignify people who ask about his birth certificate with further answer.
Climb off the cross, dear. One person badgering you does not a witch-hunt make. ;)
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:47:40am |
re: #256 Killian Bundy
With every opinion there's motivation.
/and foreign motivations pique my interest
Okay. You got me. I'm part of a sinister, Soros-funded cabal to infiltrate LGF and make it look bad by proving it's an open-minded community that tolerates and discusses all points of view.
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capitalist piglet Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:48:06am |
re: #245 BatGuano
Do tell!
I can't. I don't want some fired up loaded-for-bear lizard threatening to kick my ass. LOL
(Actually, that's not the real reason...I just try to do what I say I'll do, and bailing on the conversation is what I said I'd do, so...)
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Syrah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:48:45am |
re: #256 Killian Bundy
With every opinion there's motivation.
/and foreign motivations pique my interest
I think you are making a mountain out of a minor distraction. Ice's citizenship does not make or break her arguments in regards to socialized medicine or socialized anything.
What would it matter if she were arguing one way or the other with an Argentinian or even a French passport in her possession? The arguments themselves should be able to hold water of themselves and not be helped or hindered by citizenship status.
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:49:04am |
re: #253 Syrah
A homogenizing of the various English forms in the Anglosphere could be in process.
In America, we stand in line: In England they stand in a que. Perhaps the Anglosphere will homogenize. But how long will the Anglosphere survive? I don't know. but I will be sad when it is gone.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:49:21am |
re: #259 iceweasel
Okay. You got me. I'm part of a sinister, Soros-funded cabal to infiltrate LGF and make it look bad by proving it's an open-minded community that tolerates and discusses all points of view.
/or just dishonest from the get go
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littleoldlady Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:49:22am |
Meh. I'm getting frequent "runtime errors" on Firefox that shuts it down. Can't find a reason for it.
/*sob!*
But if fruitcup is late...you'll know why. :-(
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blackpajamas Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:49:22am |
Cram of the Bald Charade
Half un-read, half un-read,
Half un-read onward,
All in the Chamber of Health
Crammed the one hundred.
`Forward, the Bald Charade!
Charge for their life!' they said:
Into the Chamber of Health
Crammed the one hundred.
`Forward, the Bald Charade!'
Was there lobby unpay'd?
The happy fattened few,
Our masses plunder'd:
Their's not to health supply,
Their's not to reason why,
Their's but to tax and lie:
Into the Chamber of Health
Crammed the one hundred.
Voters to right of them,
Voters to left of them,
Voters in front of them
Pitch forks gleam sharpen'd;
Compelled by sweet pork smell,
Boldly they crammed too well,
Into the jaws of Debt,
Into the Bill of Hell
Crammed the one hundred.
Flash'd all their cronies bare,
Flash'd as they shave our hair
Socialized with Baboon's care,
Charging bloody fees, while
All doctors wonder'd:
Plunged in the sewers of Hope
Straight through patience they broke;
Tax paying Americans
Reel'd from their scalpel-stroke
Shatter'd and sunder'd.
Then they crammed back, but not
Not the one hundred.
Voters to right of them,
Voters to left of them,
Voters in front of them
Pitch forks gleam sharpen'd;
Compelled by sweet pork smell,
Clown Barney and Pelosi fell,
They that defraud so well
Ground upon jaws of Debt,
House-Ushered Bill of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of one hundred.
When can their fever fade?
O the wild cram-downs made!
All tax payers thunder'd.
Unmask the cram-downs made!
Unmask the Bald Charade,
Vote out one hundred!
//g'nite, and good luck.
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:49:38am |
re: #256 Killian Bundy
With every opinion there's motivation.
/and foreign motivations pique my interest
Really? Try showing some class to our new lizards...You came this close to getting trashed by me...Good answer...Let's let the late night posts from last week go away...and be friends and exchange idea's. There is no need to ever be mean to a lady...American's are the best of the best...
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:51:10am |
re: #266 HoosierHoops
Really? Try showing some class to our new lizards...You came this close to getting trashed by me...Good answer...Let's let the late night posts from last week go away...and be friends and exchange idea's. There is no need to ever be mean to a lady...American's are the best of the best...
Thank you Hoops. You are a gentleman.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:51:33am |
re: #261 Syrah
I think you are making a mountain out of a minor distraction. Ice's citizenship does not make or break her arguments in regards to socialized medicine or socialized anything.
What would it matter if she were arguing one way or the other with an Argentinian or even a French passport in her possession? The arguments themselves should be able to hold water of themselves and not be helped or hindered by citizenship status.
/the question of why is intriguing
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Slumbering Behemoth Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:52:18am |
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:53:29am |
re: #266 HoosierHoops
Really? Try showing some class to our new lizards...You came this close to getting trashed by me...Good answer...Let's let the late night posts from last week go away...and be friends and exchange idea's. There is no need to ever be mean to a lady...American's are the best of the best...
/read the LGF archives when you get squeamish
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Syrah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:54:34am |
re: #262 BatGuano
A homogenizing of the various English forms in the Anglosphere could be in process.
In America, we stand in line: In England they stand in a que. Perhaps the Anglosphere will homogenize. But how long will the Anglosphere survive? I don't know. but I will be sad when it is gone.
The Anglosphere has a number of decades left to it. The momentum of history will keep it from being wiped out in our lifetime. Give it another 50 to a hundred years.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:54:45am |
I can't be the only one here who finds infighting and discussion of my citizenship boring.
Let's talk about something more interesting! (or that isn't this)
Harry Potter, for instance.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:55:37am |
re: #271 TheMatrix31
This thread is so interesting, lol.
You beat me!
What's up, Matrix? How'd your exam go?
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:56:57am |
re: #273 iceweasel
I can't be the only one here who finds infighting and discussion of my citizenship boring..
/wouldn't take but one comment to set the record straight, we've already established it isn't U.S.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:58:04am |
re: #275 Killian Bundy
/wouldn't take but one comment to set the record straight, we've already established it isn't U.S.
Here's my comment: Horseshit.
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Syrah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:58:23am |
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littleoldlady Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:00:08am |
Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™
Fruitcup is on the buffet --->
Help yourselves!
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:00:18am |
re: #276 iceweasel
Here's my comment: Horseshit.
It shouldn't be this hard.
/does that mean you're a U.S. citizen?
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gmsc Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:01:09am |
re: #278 littleoldlady
Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™
Fruitcup is on the buffet --->
Help yourselves!
G'moning, littleoldlady!
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:02:06am |
re: #279 Killian Bundy
It shouldn't be this hard.
/does that mean you're a U.S. citizen?
It shouldn't be of interest to you.
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batguano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:02:36am |
re: #272 Syrah
The Anglosphere has a number of decades left to it. The momentum of history will keep it from being wiped out in our lifetime. Give it another 50 to a hundred years.
You're an optimist. I see it collapsing daily. And now Obama leads the charge. When the Anglosphere declines, civilization collapses.
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TheMatrix31 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:02:58am |
re: #274 iceweasel
You beat me!
What's up, Matrix? How'd your exam go?
It was alright, nothing spectacular. I don't know if I answered the sixth term thoroughly enough though, the "strategic triangle".
We'll see though.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:03:21am |
re: #277 Syrah
Why would that be interesting?
Because she pontificates in favor of TOTUS policies all day long and into next week.
/if she's not a U.S. citizen, that's weird
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batguano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:03:40am |
re: #278 littleoldlady
Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™
Fruitcup is on the buffet --->
Help yourselves!
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littleoldlady Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:04:43am |
gmsc! :-)
BatGuano! :-)
/what happened to your caps?
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:04:53am |
re: #270 Killian Bundy
/read the LGF archives when you get squeamish
OMG ICE might be from another country! Fuck! My heart has stopped!
I don't care...You seem to think it is your right to be rude to her..
Sorry about your luck KB...Be nice and talk ideas...You have never been attacked here..
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batguano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:05:39am |
re: #266 HoosierHoops
Really? Try showing some class to our new lizards...You came this close to getting trashed by me...Good answer...Let's let the late night posts from last week go away...and be friends and exchange idea's. There is no need to ever be mean to a lady...American's are the best of the best...
Hear, Hear!
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Syrah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:07:46am |
re: #282 batguano
You're an optimist. I see it collapsing daily. And now Obama leads the charge. When the Anglosphere declines, civilization collapses.
I want to encourage you to be of good cheer.
Freedom is not like some electronic book on a kindle. They can't just go in and zap it out of existence.
Rome did not burn in a day. It will take them a while to destroy everything.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:10:01am |
re: #289 Killian Bundy
No, it is.
/as a non-citizen, what's your motivation to advocate for TOTUS?
As someone who is presumably literate, what is your motivation for characterising my statements overall as 'pro-Obama', especially when I've voiced severe criticism of Obama on many issues?
No need to answer. Your motivation is to derail threads and to get attention. Unfortunately I have sometimes aided and abetted you in your aim, by answering you when it's clear your own motives are, to say the least, not good.
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:10:22am |
re: #290 Killian Bundy
/grow a pair
Wow...You had your chance to be nice..You have no idea...
Be talking to you soon you piss ant..
have a nice day
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littleoldlady Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:11:38am |
On the one hand, I don't care.
On the other hand it IS a tad disingenuous and deceptive to say that "our healthcare system is broken" if you're not really an "our".
On the third hand, (that littleold Talmudic scholar in me says) I don't care. People do stuff like that on the internet. I don't take it personally.
Now give it a rest, Killian! She's not going to tell you, and you're pissing people off harping on it.
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batguano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:11:42am |
re: #291 Syrah
I want to encourage you to be of good cheer.
Freedom is not like some electronic book on a kindle. They can't just go in and zap it out of existence.
Rome did not burn in a day. It will take them a while to destroy everything.
I sincerely hope you are right.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:14:06am |
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:15:51am |
re: #291 Syrah
I want to encourage you to be of good cheer.
Freedom is not like some electronic book on a kindle. They can't just go in and zap it out of existence.
Rome did not burn in a day. It will take them a while to destroy everything.
I have a very worrying thought about Kindle and this recent business of 1984 (of all books) vanishing from people's Kindles--
Everyone writing about it talks about the Orwellian memory hole, the place in the Ministry of truth where uncomfortable facts are 'disappeared'
But part of Winston Smith's job at Minitru was rewriting the old newspaper archives-- not just 'disappearing' data, but changing it.
So here is my nightmare Orwellian scenario: what if Amazon decided to use Kindle not to 'disappear' info, but to change it? So the famous book you downloaded (like the Federalist Papers) one day is suddenly a diatribe in favour of socialism.
I don't think this is ever going to happen, mind you, but if we're considering information storage in the Internet age, this is the way totalitarian governments would go.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:16:23am |
re: #294 littleoldlady
Now give it a rest, Killian! She's not going to tell you, and you're pissing people off harping on it.
/serial dishonesty is bad
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batguano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:16:50am |
re: #292 iceweasel
Iceweasel, I might not agree with what you say; I might not understand what you say; but I will defend to the death of gmsc my right not to understand it.
sincerely, Bat.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:17:21am |
re: #232 iceweasel
When did it become a rule that you have to be a US citizen to post here?
That's not the point. LGF has a large contingent of overseas members, very nearly all of whom are forthright about that fact. Nobody discounts what Winston06 or aussiemagpie has to say.
I used to think that Charles had salted the blog with some stalwart acquaintances in order to steer it away from one of the edges of discourse. Now KB has gotten me thinking along different lines. I wasn't sure about the first idea; I am of course not sure about the second. So I'll keep it to myself for now.
Of course, sunlight is the best disinfectant. one of the hallmarks of this place is the fact-checking. We have had people go south on us, people a lot of us liked and still miss. But you make your bed, you sleep in it. We have also had people arrive here under less-than-truthful auspices. It all comes out in the wash.
At LGF, the fastest way to attract attention and become unwelcome usually begins with the refusal to answer a couple of questions.
I think you're alright, ice. But I don't know that, of course. I could care less where you're from, except that if you are misrepresenting something, that is an indicator of something that I do care about. I am pretty observant, even if sometimes my posts do "read like stereo instructions", heh. I had figured you for an American lefty, and believe me, if I had ever seen you indicate otherwise, I would remember. Was I wrong?
Citizenship is not the issue. Misrepresentation is. Big lies don't give themselves away--small ones give up the big ones.
This is a little different from personal relationships in that all we have to go on about each other are the words in the little comment boxes. Each of us *should* approach this place with one eye on the door, one hand on the pistol.
Case in point: I really liked GotC, but when she went south, I was one of the ones supporting an inquiry, if you will, because if we will not police our own ranks, who will? All of this as a justification, or explanation for falling back on what could sound like a playground argument, which is that if there is nothing to hide, questions are painless to answer.
So my impression is that you are an American. Am I wrong?
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littleoldlady Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:19:18am |
re: #302 Killian Bundy
You do remember (I know you do) that this exact kind of behavior from one group of lizards towards another eventually lead to the infamous Black Friday.
Let's not go there, 'mkay?
/duck, water, back
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Karridine Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:19:39am |
re: #304 haakondahl
Here's an American, posting from the jasmine-scented suburbs of Bangkok, Iceweasel
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:22:47am |
re: #266 HoosierHoops
Really? Try showing some class to our new lizards...You came this close to getting trashed by me...Good answer...Let's let the late night posts from last week go away...and be friends and exchange idea's. There is no need to ever be mean to a lady...American's are the best of the best...
Right you are, Ma'am. I am, however, reminded of a cartoon I saw in the mid-nineties, in which a dog at a computer explains to anotherdog sitting beside him that "On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog."
Because deception is almost effortless in this medium, I have a lot more tolerance for nosiness and vetting than in person.
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Karridine Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:24:24am |
re: #307 haakondahl
uhm, I think he meant 'to Iceweasel', Haakon, but mayhaps that's just me... :D
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:24:47am |
re: #304 haakondahl
Misrepresentation is. Big lies don't give themselves away--small ones give up the big ones.
Sorry, haak. I refuse to answer these questions solely for the reason that I don't like Killian Bully-- and others-- demanding answers.
Note that I'm not confirming, or denying, your speculations.
Note also, that I have volunteered this info here in the past.
I have never 'misrepresented' myself here. I simply refuse to answer constant hectoring demands for my citizenship, my party affilation, and who I've voted for.
As Syrah or someone said upthread, it's irrelevant to whether my arguments are good in any case.
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:25:45am |
re: #305 littleoldlady
You do remember (I know you do) that this exact kind of behavior from one group of lizards towards another eventually lead to the infamous Black Friday.
Let's not go there, 'mkay?
/duck, water, back
We need more Talmudic Scholar.
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littleoldlady Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:27:38am |
re: #310 BignJames
Don't I wish.
/then I could not solve the BIG problems of the world. ;-)
BignJames! :-)
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batguano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:28:04am |
re: #305 littleoldlady
You do remember (I know you do) that this exact kind of behavior from one group of lizards towards another eventually lead to the infamous Black Friday.
Let's not go there, 'mkay?
/duck, water, back
Black Friday? No one is going to tell me right?
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:29:09am |
re: #307 haakondahl
Right you are, Ma'am. I am, however, reminded of a cartoon I saw in the mid-nineties, in which a dog at a computer explains to anotherdog sitting beside him that "On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog."
Because deception is almost effortless in this medium, I have a lot more tolerance for nosiness and vetting than in person.
I'm a guy...I couldn't get past your post after that...you were saying?
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Karridine Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:29:25am |
re: #311 littleoldlady
Little Olde, this is still burning in the background...
Branch 28 of the Revolutionary Court will be holding the trial of the 7 informal [former] leaders of the Baha’i community of Iran [also known as the Yaran, or "Friends"]. This is the same branch that charged Roxana Saberi [an Iranian-American journalist] for espionage and sentenced her to 8 years of imprisonment. Subsequently the same court, obeying orders from above, convened for a mock appeals trial and exonerated her of the espionage charges!It is worrisome that the Revolutionary Court is setting the stage for a large scale assault on those arrested during the recent demonstrations following the presidential election of Iran. Though our Baha’i countrymen are not involved in politics, persecution of the Baha’i community is often used to set the stage for a widespread attack on political opponents of the regime.
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Syrah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:29:53am |
re: #284 Killian Bundy
Because she pontificates in favor of TOTUS policies all day long and into next week.
/if she's not a U.S. citizen, that's weird
I think it is not very important. It nether hurts nor helps her arguments one way or the other. re: #301 iceweasel
I have a very worrying thought about Kindle and this recent business of 1984 (of all books) vanishing from people's Kindles--
Everyone writing about it talks about the Orwellian memory hole, the place in the Ministry of truth where uncomfortable facts are 'disappeared'
But part of Winston Smith's job at Minitru was rewriting the old newspaper archives-- not just 'disappearing' data, but changing it.
So here is my nightmare Orwellian scenario: what if Amazon decided to use Kindle not to 'disappear' info, but to change it? So the famous book you downloaded (like the Federalist Papers) one day is suddenly a diatribe in favour of socialism.
I don't think this is ever going to happen, mind you, but if we're considering information storage in the Internet age, this is the way totalitarian governments would go.
I would agree that I don't want he government involved in the process at all. By its and their very nature, government and the politicians that run it can not be trusted with our liberties. (it sucks, but that is just the way it is.)
It is important though to keep in mind that the Kindle-Zap was not a product of government tyranny, but a product of corporate stupidity. The publisher is being a moron. I would rather that Amazon had played more hard-ball with them and threatened to withdraw all of their products from their inventory until they come to their senses, but they did not. Now we just have to wait for the market to deliver its verdict.
In time, that publisher will learn that the money is not in the dead tree part of the business and that their competitors will be eating their lunch. The e-book business has a much lower overhead cost when compared to the dead-tree model. Electronic bits are a hell'of'a'lot cheaper then paper and ink. That publisher is choosing the buggy-whip business model and it will suffer the consequences of its choice.
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littleoldlady Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:30:17am |
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:30:48am |
re: #314 batguano
Black Friday? No one is going to tell me right?
Happened prolly 3 years ago...long before you became an insect to become batguano...or are you from a fruit bat?
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littleoldlady Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:31:42am |
re: #316 Karridine
Absolutely AWFUL, Karridine. :-(
I also am worried about the Jews in Iran. I'm pretty sure they've gone to ground, but that doesn't mean they're not in terrible peril...
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:32:41am |
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:32:50am |
/well, have fun
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Karridine Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:33:09am |
re: #320 littleoldlady
Ma'am, its the
"...persecution of the Baha’i community is often used to set the stage for a widespread attack on political opponents of the regime...
' part that is particularly ominous.
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Sharmuta Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:33:46am |
re: #304 haakondahl
I remember one of the first conclusions I came to in regards to iceweasel- I figured she'd been around the blogosphere a bit because she didn't seem intimidated to jump in and join discussions. And being that her perspective in some cases differs from the norm, I think it set her apart and therefore noticed. But I haven't seen anything from her to justify claims of dishonesty accept her unwillingness to get bullied.
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batguano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:33:59am |
re: #319 BignJames
Happened prolly 3 years ago...long before you became an insect to become batguano...or are you from a fruit bat?
I was never an insect nor a fruit. Thanks for confirming my question.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:34:14am |
re: #301 iceweasel
I have a very worrying thought about Kindle and this recent business of 1984 (of all books) vanishing from people's Kindles--
Everyone writing about it talks about the Orwellian memory hole, the place in the Ministry of truth where uncomfortable facts are 'disappeared'
But part of Winston Smith's job at Minitru was rewriting the old newspaper archives-- not just 'disappearing' data, but changing it.
So here is my nightmare Orwellian scenario: what if Amazon decided to use Kindle not to 'disappear' info, but to change it? So the famous book you downloaded (like the Federalist Papers) one day is suddenly a diatribe in favour of socialism.
I don't think this is ever going to happen, mind you, but if we're considering information storage in the Internet age, this is the way totalitarian governments would go.
Interesting point, but one which I wouldn't get too excited about succeeding. If attempted, it would fail. This is where digital hashes become important. Of course, that requires the ability to commingle the data with a system you trust, which I am certain the Kindle will not do on its own. But somewhere, somebody has already figured out how to do this.
Open systems architecture (legally, or by standards) and cryptography are our guarantors of freedom in the future. I call it the Electronic Second Amendment.
Viruses are only such a serious problem because of the corporate inertia behind operating systems. While there's no arguing with reality, it is a freak of technology and contract law that Windows has become the dominant operating system. It is inferior to almost every other offering, and to this day still does not manage security at the kernel level. Shutting down the hackishly inclined, restricting cryptography (and therefore retarding the public's ability to employ it) will only give the serious threats a greater headstart. No government will be able to cope with the massive amount of electronic tom-foolery we may expect in the near future, without becoming a police state; an information state.
If you don't want your data being perverted on software you have paid for, on hardware you have paid for, assert your ownership of those things you have paid for. Licenses are serfdom. Ownership is citizenship.
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littleoldlady Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:34:21am |
re: #321 HoosierHoops
Hoosier! :-)
Might if I do a little switcheroo? Cottage cheese and blueberries!
/FINALLY a tad more affordable around here this year
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:36:23am |
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:37:29am |
re: #327 littleoldlady
Hoosier! :-)
Might if I do a little switcheroo? Cottage cheese and blueberries!
/FINALLY a tad more affordable around here this year
I'm so eating cottage cheese and pineapples ..Yummy
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:38:25am |
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:46:28am |
re: #307 haakondahl
Because deception is almost effortless in this medium, I have a lot more tolerance for nosiness and vetting than in person.
But that's why I, as a woman, have a real problem with nosiness in this medium. You can't know who you're talking to, or who will read any personal information you divulge.
besides which, why does someone have to be 'vetted' on a blog which is about expressing political opinion and discussing politics? My arguments are good, or they're not. You agree with my opinions, or you don't. That's it.
If I had my way I wouldn't even have released my gender on here, to be honest.
And that's another good point-- why do some people here feel entitled to know my citizenship, where I'm posting from, my party affiliation, who I've voted for, how many times I've voted, and how many US POTUS elections I've voted in (all of these are questions that have been thrown at me in the last week, and by people other than KB), before I can post here on LGF? CHARLES doesn't require these things for membership.
And btw, some of the people demanding all this info of me just to post a comment would surely support zombie's right to conceal everything, including gender.
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batguano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:48:00am |
Is black friday one of those things no one speaks of except in conspiratorial terms?
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Syrah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:49:09am |
re: #333 batguano
Is black friday one of those things no one speaks of except in conspiratorial terms?
Shhh!
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littleoldlady Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:50:18am |
re: #333 batguano
Is black friday one of those things no one speaks of except in conspiratorial terms?
No, discussion of Black Friday is generally avoided because it was incredibly disgusting and upsetting.
/you're not going to give up, are you? ;-)
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:50:23am |
re: #332 iceweasel
But that's why I, as a woman, have a real problem with nosiness in this medium. You can't know who you're talking to, or who will read any personal information you divulge..
Pick a continent.
/*barf*
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:50:57am |
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littleoldlady Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:51:12am |
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Syrah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:51:47am |
re: #332 iceweasel
Its a rough game.
Give what you want. Hold back on everything else.
It does not matter.
Now for the really hard part.
Avoid the topic altogether. Do not participate in it any longer. Let the topic die from a lack of oxygen.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:52:15am |
re: #333 batguano
Is black friday one of those things no one speaks of except in conspiratorial terms?
I once worked somewhere where everyone referred to the "Valentine's Day Massacre" in mysterious terms, and wouldn't discuss it.
Turned out to be a day with a lot of layoffs and a fullon shrieking meltdown by the boss (sobbing, hysterics) in sight of everyone.
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batguano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:52:48am |
re: #335 TheMatrix31
Why must it be BLACK friday?!?!
It's a racial thing as far as I can discern. Everyone is mum about it so it must be shameful. Probably related to white supremacists. :)
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batguano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:54:24am |
re: #336 littleoldlady
No, discussion of Black Friday is generally avoided because it was incredibly disgusting and upsetting.
/you're not going to give up, are you? ;-)
Disgusting? Upsetting? Of course not!
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:55:59am |
re: #337 Killian Bundy
Pick a continent.
/*barf*
An excellent example of your eloquence.
Until I get your internet lawsuit looking for my long form birth certificate, I guess you'll have to keep spewing your vomit. :)
I won't be helping you out by answering you again. :)
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:56:17am |
re: #333 batguano
Is black friday one of those things no one speaks of except in conspiratorial terms?
There was a bit of a clique once, and The Man admonished them for their behavior torwards other posters...they took umbrage and challenged The Man...the rest is...as they say, history.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:56:38am |
re: #340 Syrah
Its a rough game.
Give what you want. Hold back on everything else.
It does not matter.
Now for the really hard part.
Avoid the topic altogether. Do not participate in it any longer. Let the topic die from a lack of oxygen.
Yep. Sound advice.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:57:41am |
re: #309 iceweasel
Sorry, haak. I refuse to answer these questions solely for the reason that I don't like Killian Bully-- and others-- demanding answers.
Note that I'm not confirming, or denying, your speculations.
Note also, that I have volunteered this info here in the past.
I have never 'misrepresented' myself here. I simply refuse to answer constant hectoring demands for my citizenship, my party affilation, and who I've voted for.
As Syrah or someone said upthread, it's irrelevant to whether my arguments are good in any case.
I have also said that this is irrelevant to the quality or veracity of your argument. Also, I was careful to say that I had not seen, not that you did not say.
I'm just speaking for myself here. I like to know who I'm speaking with. I accept a certain level of blindness online which I would not accept in person--in person, it would be a deception, but online, it is merely a side-effect of the technology, a trade-off. The danger inherent in the medium is of accepting deception camouflaged as difficulty. It's an updated equivalent of ending a suddenly hazardous phone conversation by crinkling some carbon paper and claiming that the connection is fading, you're breaking up, etc.
I mention this not because I'm accusing you or anybody else of it; just to explain why I feel it is appropriate to do a bit of checking online which would clearly be out-of-bounds in person.
LGF is always at risk of infiltration or disruption by people with nefarious ends, and some of them are more sophisticated than others. Hence my concern.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:58:56am |
re: #345 iceweasel
An excellent example of your eloquence.
Until I get your internet lawsuit looking for my long form birth certificate, I guess you'll have to keep spewing your vomit. :)
I won't be helping you out by answering you again. :)
/#barf*, youre a liar
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batguano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:00:13am |
re: #346 BignJames
There was a bit of a clique once, and The Man admonished them for their behavior torwards other posters...they took umbrage and challenged The Man...the rest is...as they say, history.
Thanks for the info. It sounds like Satan's rebellion against God.
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Syrah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:01:41am |
Good night all
Optimism.
Perspective.
Courage.
Forbearance
and Forgiveness.
Something for everyone.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:02:24am |
re: #350 batguano
Thanks for the info. It sounds like Satan's rebellion against God.
That gets creepy real fast.
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littleoldlady Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:02:46am |
re: #351 Syrah
Good night all
Optimism.
Perspective.
Courage.
Forbearance
and Forgiveness.
Something for everyone.
Not exactly... NO CHOCOLATE?!
'Night, Syrah! :-)
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:03:16am |
re: #351 Syrah
Good night all
Optimism.
Perspective.
Courage.
Forbearance
and Forgiveness.
Something for everyone.
Wisdom? What about wisdom? Oh just gimme the damned apple, already!
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:05:43am |
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:07:04am |
re: #348 haakondahl
LGF is always at risk of infiltration or disruption by people with nefarious ends, and some of them are more sophisticated than others. Hence my concern.
Sorry, haak. It's not my fault if bullies here are acting like bullies.
Some people don't like having different POV's here. Fortunately those people don't represent the majority of LGF. As far as I'm concerned, my presence here is an asset to LGF if only because it proves that most of LGF in general, and Charles in particular, tolerates and welcomes 'other' points of view.
I find it extremely odd that anyone could think that a progressive who criticises Obama is some kind of 'infiltrator'.
And I think I'll follow Syrah's wise counsel above and not discuss this further. Killian Bully is getting what he wants: derailing a thread, sowing 'concern' about me as a poster, and attention. Frankly, he needs to be starved.
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TheMatrix31 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:07:26am |
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:08:51am |
re: #352 haakondahl
From that description, it does. I shall inquire no more.
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Sharmuta Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:09:38am |
Haak says:
LGF is always at risk of infiltration or disruption by people with nefarious ends, and some of them are more sophisticated than others. Hence my concern.
Haak- the best mole would go un-noticed. This has nothing to do with some sort of sinister infiltration. Rather- it's just a daily obsession.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:09:47am |
re: #357 iceweasel
And I think I'll follow Syrah's wise counsel above and not discuss this further. Killian Bully is getting what he wants: derailing a thread, sowing 'concern' about me as a poster, and attention. Frankly, he needs to be starved.
/go for it
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:10:24am |
re: #355 TheMatrix31
They could spend more money to stave off bancruptcy...you know...the Biden Plan.
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Killian Bundy Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:11:48am |
re: #357 iceweasel
As far as I'm concerned, my presence here is an asset to LGF if only because it proves that most of LGF in general, and Charles in particular, tolerates and welcomes 'other' points of view.
/bring it on, just be honest about it
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TheMatrix31 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:13:02am |
re: #362 BignJames
They could spend more money to stave off bancruptcy...you know...the Biden Plan.
And this screws me directly, since I'm headed into my last year at a UC school and need units/classes to freakin' graduate!
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:14:03am |
re: #364 TheMatrix31
And this screws me directly, since I'm headed into my last year at a UC school and need units/classes to freakin' graduate!
Major?
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UncleRancher Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:14:18am |
re: #362 BignJames
The Biden plan! That's it! I'm running out of money fast, so therefor, I need to go the store. If I do this enough maybe I can spend myself rich.
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:15:09am |
re: #366 UncleRancher
The Biden plan! That's it! I'm running out of money fast, so therefor, I need to go the store. If I do this enough maybe I can spend myself rich.
It's sheer genius...just like Joe.
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freetoken Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:16:23am |
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littleoldlady Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:17:05am |
re: #366 UncleRancher
The Biden plan! That's it! I'm running out of money fast, so therefor, I need to go the store. If I do this enough maybe I can spend myself rich.
I tried that.
/doesn't work :-/
UnclerRancher! :-
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UncleRancher Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:18:53am |
re: #369 littleoldlady
Lol! Good morning -- How nice to see you this fine day.
/doesn't work :-/ -- I thought this was part of the change we could believe in???
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littleoldlady Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:19:09am |
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:19:24am |
re: #357 iceweasel
Ice, I agree. We will let Charles vet posters here. I'm sure he knows who you are and has no objection. Neither do I have an objection. You offer a different point of view than most posters here and that is good. Politically you and I are at different ends of the spectrum, but you have my full support. You do not (as far as I'm concerned) need to answer to anyone.
Bat.
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UncleRancher Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:19:56am |
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littleoldlady Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:20:22am |
re: #370 UncleRancher
There certainly is a lot of "doesn't work" goin' on, ain't there?
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freetoken Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:20:33am |
I've been thinking... LGF could really use a "Propaganda" category in the spin-offs.
Yes?
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:20:44am |
re: #360 Sharmuta
Haak says:
Haak- the best mole would go un-noticed. This has nothing to do with some sort of sinister infiltration. Rather- it's just a daily obsession.
It's weird. I'm damn well informed about the liberal-sphere and I have massive amounts of criticism of Obama. We have a few other lefties here, but I don't think any of them identify as progressive and I know for sure they know less about the progosphere than I. I can easily provide tons of criticisms from the left of Obama policies, and occasionally I get to do that in discussion with someone.
But a lot of the time that never even gets to happen. Some people are hyper-partisan, and they assume everyone else must be as well. So just the knowledge that I'm 'on the left' makes them think I looove pelosi and love Obama. It's so strange-- I'm not even a Democrat, FFS. And I hate pelosi, hate most democrats, and have some major issues with Obama. (which btw describes most of the progressive left).
It's disappointing and weird, and seems to be a recent shift. The GOP in general is kind of hunkering down and doubledowning on the partisan rhetoric; maybe that's being reflected here.
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UncleRancher Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:21:02am |
re: #375 littleoldlady
There certainly is a lot of "doesn't work" goin' on, ain't there?
It's like they invented it and are somehow proud of it.
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littleoldlady Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:21:22am |
re: #376 freetoken
freetoken! :-)
Yes. I think people have been using the Moonbat category. Not as precise...
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:22:35am |
re: #374 TheMatrix31
Poli Sci!
Hmmm...maybe you could work for Ahnold for credit hours in lieu of pay.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:22:38am |
re: #372 BatGuano
Ice, I agree. We will let Charles vet posters here. I'm sure he knows who you are and has no objection. Neither do I have an objection. You offer a different point of view than most posters here and that is good. Politically you and I are at different ends of the spectrum, but you have my full support. You do not (as far as I'm concerned) need to answer to anyone.
Bat.
Bat, I've said it before and will no doubt continue to say it-- You rock.
And you always have my full support. I don't have to agree with your opinion, but I will defend to the death your right to express it. :)
love, ice
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UncleRancher Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:22:50am |
re: #376 freetoken
I've been thinking... LGF could really use a "Propaganda" category in the spin-offs.
Yes?
I'm beginning to think there is no other kind. ;-)
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freetoken Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:25:16am |
re: #379 littleoldlady
Yes. I think people have been using the Moonbat category. Not as precise...
Lol!
It is just... there are articles that are written by parties from a viewpoint of highly-vested participant, and I hesitate to label that "news". I have a link I plan to put up (besides the dog-dating service which easily fit "weird") but it has a definite engineered quality about it (which wouldn't be surprising given it comes from a state news agency.)
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:25:40am |
re: #376 freetoken
I've been thinking... LGF could really use a "Propaganda" category in the spin-offs.
Yes?
I think we need some other categories too...I would like to see a general 'Human Rights" category, and also a Sharia Law category. I don't like tagging stuff that deals with human right violations under Sharia with "islam".
Also, I would like the "human rights" category because it could serve for all the women's rights issues.
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littleoldlady Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:28:38am |
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freetoken Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:28:45am |
re: #384 iceweasel
There are many, many possible categories... but it is doubtful Charles wants a list of hundreds. This is after all a one man blog, albeit one of the more successful one-man blogs. As such it reflects the personality of the one-man... and it is amazing that Charles has been able to keep up with the breadth of news-centric blogging as it is.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:30:08am |
re: #386 freetoken
There are many, many possible categories... but it is doubtful Charles wants a list of hundreds. This is after all a one man blog, albeit one of the more successful one-man blogs. As such it reflects the personality of the one-man... and it is amazing that Charles has been able to keep up with the breadth of news-centric blogging as it is.
That's very true.
I'd still like a "Human Rights" category. That could also cover the Sharia posts. One category that solves a lot of issues.
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:30:32am |
re: #377 iceweasel
It's weird. I'm damn well informed about the liberal-sphere and I have massive amounts of criticism of Obama. We have a few other lefties here, but I don't think any of them identify as progressive and I know for sure they know less about the progosphere than I. I can easily provide tons of criticisms from the left of Obama policies, and occasionally I get to do that in discussion with someone.
But a lot of the time that never even gets to happen. Some people are hyper-partisan, and they assume everyone else must be as well. So just the knowledge that I'm 'on the left' makes them think I looove pelosi and love Obama. It's so strange-- I'm not even a Democrat, FFS. And I hate pelosi, hate most democrats, and have some major issues with Obama. (which btw describes most of the progressive left).
It's disappointing and weird, and seems to be a recent shift. The GOP in general is kind of hunkering down and doubledowning on the partisan rhetoric; maybe that's being reflected here.
I consider myself a Classic Liberal (see John Locke) as do others on this site. I have a low tolerance for policy idiocy at any level of govt. If you support a policy I think is flawed, I will challenge you and supply reasons why I think it is flawed...and I would expect a sound counter argument from you. It has nothing to do with partisanship...I am unaffiliated.
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freetoken Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:32:09am |
Well, I put up the link in "World News". Check it out if you can.
"Mobsters" the official said...
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:32:32am |
re: #384 iceweasel
How does Human rights differ from women's rights in western civilization?
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:33:29am |
re: #390 BatGuano
How does Human rights differ from women's rights in western civilization?
The spelling.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:35:18am |
re: #388 BignJames
I consider myself a Classic Liberal (see John Locke) as do others on this site. I have a low tolerance for policy idiocy at any level of govt. If you support a policy I think is flawed, I will challenge you and supply reasons why I think it is flawed...and I would expect a sound counter argument from you. It has nothing to do with partisanship...I am unaffiliated.
Excellent. Big fan of people like that. BTW, you describe my own position.
I don't think you and I have ever gotten to stage of even debating policy or our own opinions on it. People have assumed I support Obamacare or 'socialised medicine' merely because I correct mistaken beliefs about the proposed reform.
I've also said, repeatedly, that whatever version limps out of Congress is likely going to suck.
Here's my position: the US health care system is broken and needs reform.
Most folks agree with that. What kind of reform is best, and whether it will work, should be the real issues.
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UncleRancher Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:36:26am |
re: #390 BatGuano
How does Human rights differ from women's rights in western civilization?
There are a few areas of special privilege carved out for women as well there should be, but some do go a little overboard on that. I'm also concerned with the effect of spotted owls' rights and snail darters' rights that are getting out of hand.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:37:09am |
re: #357 iceweasel
I find it extremely odd that anyone could think that a progressive who criticises Obama is some kind of 'infiltrator'.
Let me pivot off of the old topic by clarifying--I agree, those are two different things. I was explaining why I find it appropriate to be nosy at times, rather than accusing you of anything in particular. That distinction is something I tried to carry through the discussion.
Still, trust only works as a verb, not as a noun, and I'm just going to continue to take you at face value. Squeezing this down. Gotta go.
More later. Just saying, LGF is at risk, not connected with you, but the risk justifies a bit of what could be considered rude.
On the other hand, KB, just being a leftist, and a self-professed one at that, does not mean ice should be abused.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:37:56am |
re: #390 BatGuano
How does Human rights differ from women's rights in western civilization?
I don't think they do differ.
I'll call myself a feminist, but in my view most people in the West are feminists whether they call themselves so or not, and whether they're female or not.
I consider feminism to be humanism, frankly: it's the radical notion that women are people. :)
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UncleRancher Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:38:46am |
re: #392 iceweasel
Excellent. Big fan of people like that. BTW, you describe my own position.
Here's my position: the US health care system is broken and needs reform.
Most folks agree with that. What kind of reform is best, and whether it will work, should be the real issues.
We may disagree on what precisely is assumed to be broken. I believe prices are skyrocketing because of lawyers and insurance and those need to be eliminated rather than put in full charge.
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:39:12am |
re: #392 iceweasel
Excellent. Big fan of people like that. BTW, you describe my own position.
I don't think you and I have ever gotten to stage of even debating policy or our own opinions on it. People have assumed I support Obamacare or 'socialised medicine' merely because I correct mistaken beliefs about the proposed reform.
I've also said, repeatedly, that whatever version limps out of Congress is likely going to suck.
Here's my position: the US health care system is broken and needs reform.
Most folks agree with that. What kind of reform is best, and whether it will work, should be the real issues.
How do you squre taht with the 89% of insured people who are satisfied w/their health care?
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:41:48am |
re: #360 Sharmuta
Haak- the best mole would go un-noticed. This has nothing to do with some sort of sinister infiltration. Rather- it's just a daily obsession.
Right--I'm not calling ice an infiltrator. I recall you and I got shouted at for looking into the GotC thing (and I don't mean to keep harping on her--hers is just a recent and fairly clear-cut case).
Monsters don't materialize behind open doors.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:43:34am |
re: #395 iceweasel
I don't think they do differ.
I'll call myself a feminist, but in my view most people in the West are feminists whether they call themselves so or not, and whether they're female or not.
I consider feminism to be humanism, frankly: it's the radical notion that women are people. :)
Heretic! ("Hair-attack?") Oh, no, it's the return of Babba's Zionist Hair Rays!
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:44:26am |
re: #397 BignJames
How do you squre taht with the 89% of insured people who are satisfied w/their health care?
Easily.
Obviously, the people satisfied with their health care only surveys-- the people who have health care. You can like your health care, while agreeing that there are too many other people without healthcare, and with inadequate health care.
Compare: I'm ok with my job, and my savings. That doesn't mean that I can't be deeply worried about the economy and all the people out of work/losing jobs/losing savings.
Saying the health care system needs fixing doesn't have to mean you think your health care is broken.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:45:22am |
re: #399 haakondahl
Heretic! ("Hair-attack?") Oh, no, it's the return of Babba's Zionist Hair Rays!
i don't even know what that means, but I'm finding it funny. Hair-rays- ing!
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:45:55am |
re: #358 TheMatrix31
No comprende, Senor
Bindun = "been done". AKA "too damned late--somebody has already effed this particular state"
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:47:14am |
re: #395 iceweasel
Also, I would like the "human rights" category because it could serve for all the women's rights issues.
In western civilization we strive toward complete equality between sexes. Then why your "human rights" and "Womens " rights distinction?
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:52:05am |
re: #403 BatGuano
Also, I would like the "human rights" category because it could serve for all the women's rights issues.
In western civilization we strive toward complete equality between sexes. Then why your "human rights" and "Womens " rights distinction?
Except I said, already, that human rights (if we had a category for it) could cover all the 'women's rights' issues.
There are issues that have to do solely with misogyny, and if we had a women's rights category I would put all of that there. So for instance, recently, posts on Obama making it easier for domestic violence survivors to get asylum, posts about FGM. I'd dump all those into women's rights, if we had a category like that.
I don't want to tag articles that have to do with human rights violations, or violations specifically involving women's rights, with Islam when they reflect a problem with Sharia-- not all of Islam.
Human rights crosscuts a lot of categories. I'd be happy with such a category here.
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:57:16am |
re: #395 iceweasel
I don't think they do differ.
I'll call myself a feminist, but in my view most people in the West are feminists whether they call themselves so or not, and whether they're female or not.
I consider feminism to be humanism, frankly: it's the radical notion that women are people. :)
In that case I am a feminist. I believe in full equality if women. But no more than equality.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:00:19am |
re: #403 BatGuano
Also, I would like the "human rights" category because it could serve for all the women's rights issues.
In western civilization we strive toward complete equality between sexes. Then why your "human rights" and "Womens " rights distinction?
Actually-- still thinking about this-- a separate women's rights category would be justified anyway, because the human rights violations that fall under it are violations targeted at women as women, not simply as humans. It would include not only FGM and the like but all violations of reproductive freedom-- those always target women only.
For those who would respond by saying, 'why not have a separate category for every group?" I would point out that women are 51% of the global population, and have many restrictions placed on them only for being female.
In any case, as freetoken noted above, the process of listing categories could be never-ending and Charles does a great job of keeping it lean. I'd still like one addition, the "human rights" category, for the reasons given above.
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yochanan Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:00:23am |
re: #405 iceweasel
Our rights were given us by our maker not some man made gov't.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:01:06am |
re: #410 yochanan
Our rights were given us by our maker not some man made gov't.
We have rights even if we don't have a "Maker".
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:01:32am |
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littleoldlady Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:05:03am |
Oy. My day just turned from doodoo to major shi'ite... :-(
Good day, ALL!™
/don't worry about me...I'll sit in the dark
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:06:09am |
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BignJames Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:07:24am |
re: #400 iceweasel
Easily.
Obviously, the people satisfied with their health care only surveys-- the people who have health care. You can like your health care, while agreeing that there are too many other people without healthcare, and with inadequate health care.
Compare: I'm ok with my job, and my savings. That doesn't mean that I can't be deeply worried about the economy and all the people out of work/losing jobs/losing savings.
Saying the health care system needs fixing doesn't have to mean you think your health care is broken.
So it would be okay for the govt. to decide you should take a 25% pay cut to help the economy/those people out of work?
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:07:38am |
re: #407 buzzsawmonkey
"Human rights" are antithetical to liberty. "Human rights" are invariably special "rights"--i.e., privileges--demanded by an interest group and awarded or withheld by the government at its pleasure.
That's odd, because as I recall, 'unalienable rights' are mentioned in the Declaration.
You can reject those truths as self-evident; I do not.
/btw, they said they were 'endowed by [our] Creator', but left that bit about the Creator open. :)
Have a nice day.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:07:38am |
re: #401 iceweasel
i don't even know what that means, but I'm finding it funny. Hair-rays- ing!
We should really all sit down and go over some of the history some time. Myself, I'm a young to middle-aged lizard--most of the Proteans are gone, and I'm just a Throbbite who barely met some of them in passing.
Charles, what about a late night Memory Lane thread? It would be a good chance to open old wounds, stir up hornet's nests, awaken sleeping dogs, upset apple carts, put thumbs on scales, get involved in land wars in Asia, feel lucky punk, skin that smokewagon, count chickens before they're hatched...
What's not to love?
BabbaZee is/was one of the very early lizards--well before my time, so I'm not sure just how early. But I think her membership pre-dated the whole "Lizard" thing anyway, as the Terrible Secret of LGF had not yet been surmised in public.
She has no compunction about stating baldly her belief that all of the Muslims are going straight to Hell, and are very likely the minions of Satan on Earth, etc., which is, uh, problematic. There have been, shall we say, high-level discussions, and I think that by mutual agreement, she doesn't post here anymore.
I'm still on her mailing list, and you have to be able to translate Babba-speak to even begin to decrypt her blog posts, and every once in a while she'll say something which is clearly unacceptable, and I call her on it. What can I say--it's a process. I'm not religious at all, but to borrow a metaphor, those who are most secure in the staus of their own souls are in fact most at risk. So I act in my own nosy way to butt into her business.
She is brilliant with a turn of phrase, and is a spectacular cuisinart for vocabulary. I believe that she was the one who "identified the real purpose behind the abaya", which is to shield the faithful and pious Muslim man from evil Zionist Hair Rays. And before anybody takes offense, she laughs at her own side as well.
It's when she's not kidding that she says things which really can't be defended. And that, no matter what the details of the "settlement" were, is why she no longer posts here. Perhaps her account is still active, perhaps it was taken offline, but You won't (I believe) find a comment from here here for more than a year back.
I am pretty sure that she parted well, and I have never seen Charles or BabbaZee say anything nasty about the other in their respective domains. I think they both did the right thing, with respect to their points of view--Charles won't tolerate that kind of crap on his blog, and Babba won't change her mind or hold her tongue.
Me, I'm holding out hope that Babba mellows. If she's reading this, she's probably composing a reply IN ALL CAPS ABOUT HOW SHE WILL NEVER EVER EVER MELLOW--accompanied by some scripture to that effect, and a truly impressive twisted turn of phrase.
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:07:40am |
re: #415 BatGuano
Although "natural law" presupposes a maker.
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Mithrax Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:11:22am |
Natural Law, Human Rights and infiltrators, oh my!
Mornin Lizardim.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:13:13am |
re: #418 haakondahl
We should really all sit down and go over some of the history some time. Myself, I'm a young to middle-aged lizard--most of the Proteans are gone, and I'm just a Throbbite who barely met some of them in passing.
Charles, what about a late night Memory Lane thread? It would be a good chance to open old wounds, stir up hornet's nests, awaken sleeping dogs, upset apple carts, put thumbs on scales, get involved in land wars in Asia, feel lucky punk, skin that smokewagon, count chickens before they're hatched...
What's not to love?
Yow...I've saved the rest of this to read later, it's all a bit too inside-baseball for me. You're cracking me up with the Late Night memory thread description.
re: #419 BatGuano
Although "natural law" presupposes a maker.
Ah, that depends on what is meant by 'natural law'. In theology, esp Catholic theology, 'natural law' has a very specific meaning and it is one which assumes a maker.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:13:26am |
re: #411 iceweasel
We have rights even if we don't have a "Maker".
And what better way to remove the control of those right from Man?
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:14:27am |
re: #422 haakondahl
And what better way to remove the control of those right from Man?
Than asserting we only have them at the whim of a gov't? Agreed.
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Sharmuta Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:15:50am |
Haak- Babba got banned and has at least once sent Charles hate mail.
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TheMatrix31 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:16:08am |
Mark Knopfler owns my freakin' soul.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:17:13am |
re: #419 BatGuano
Although "natural law" presupposes a maker.
Bat-- must run. Wanted to send you again my very best wishes and hopes for your mum and for you. I will keep you in my thoughts.
Have a nice day/night, all. Cheers, ice
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:17:23am |
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Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:17:24am |
Seems pretty weighty in here for an early Sunday Morning.
Nation of Lizlam, Awake!
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Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:18:02am |
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Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:19:05am |
re: #432 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
And it wasn't "double super secret" or anything...
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BatGuano Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:19:25am |
re: #429 iceweasel
Thank you for your concern. I must be leaving now, also. Goodnight everyone.
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Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:20:17am |
re: #432 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
She got extra banned, man!
Is that like "double sekrit probation" ala Animal House?
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:21:35am |
re: #426 buzzsawmonkey
Buzz. Humans have rights, regardless of what governments say or do, and regardless of whether or not a "Maker" even exists.
That's the profound and radical insight of the Declaration.
And most people here are really not going to be sympathetic to the claim that Americans (or anyone) only have the 'rights' that a gov't grants them. Just sayin'.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:22:01am |
re: #434 BatGuano
Thank you for your concern. I must be leaving now, also. Goodnight everyone.
Take care! I'm out now too. xoxo
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Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:23:19am |
re: #435 Cannadian Club Akbar
Is that like "double sekrit probation" ala Animal House?
*sniff*... You get me.
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yochanan Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:25:00am |
gov't given rights can be taken away. rights given by G-D can't.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:27:00am |
re: #439 yochanan
gov't given rights can be taken away. rights given by G-D can't.
And that why, even (or perhaps especially) as an agnostic, I absolutely adore the the citation of a Heavenly origin for our rights.'let no man put asunder..." and all that. Show me the man who reaches for that job description by attempting to revoke my rights. I'll kill him.
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yochanan Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:27:50am |
re: #440 haakondahl
looking for love in all the wrong places.
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Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:30:16am |
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jvic Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:31:48am |
re: #291 Syrah
Freedom is not like some electronic book on a kindle. They can't just go in and zap it out of existence.
re: #301 iceweasel
re: #317 Syrah
It is important though to keep in mind that the Kindle-Zap was not a product of government tyranny, but a product of corporate stupidity.
fre: #326 haakondahl
A rhetorical question about freedom, cyber & otherwise: why are Orwell's works not yet in the public domain?
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Sharmuta Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:31:51am |
Haak- she flipped out over getting deleted by a monitor because she quoted a troll that got deleted. Then some people accused Charles of lying about quoting the troll, so Charles undeleted the comment so people could see for themselves. Well- they then accused Charles of editing it, so they got the stick. Babba then went on to talk some smack at another blog about intelligent design, and well- here we are.
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1SG(ret) Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:33:24am |
re: #443 buzzsawmonkey
Wouldn't it be more productive for you to just bang your head against a wall. Your head will probably hurt less! Mine hurts just reading some of this.
Top
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Jimmah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:34:52am |
Morning folks. I'm back from my flu - actually got 4 solid hours of sleep last night - fantastic. I don't think I need the spitoon any more either.
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Jimmah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:37:12am |
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1SG(ret) Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:37:27am |
re: #449 buzzsawmonkey
My comment was in support/agreement of your position and I understand!
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Long Nics are Looonnng Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:37:33am |
Two things, and I gotta run...
1. Had another customer yesterday who thought I was there to give her some free shit from the government.
2. Go Tom Watson! All us old guys raise our walkers to you!
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yochanan Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:42:01am |
have a good one my lizards off to see the wizard.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:42:17am |
re: #448 Jimmah
Morning folks. I'm back from my flu - actually got 4 solid hours of sleep last night - fantastic. I don't think I need the spitoon any more either.
Jimmah-cakes! Glad to hear it. I shouldn't be here and am not wholy here but had to say hi.
Also-- Psychoville!! I didn't realise 2 of the League of gentlemen guys had a new show-- so happy! Any good?
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Jimmah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:48:08am |
Hiya! I haven't watched any yet - by sheer coincidence I had just decided to watch the series on BBC i-player yesterday, then Charles posted that clip last night. Looks interesting - I'll be watching a couple of episodes at some point today and will let you know what I think.
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SixDegrees Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:50:57am |
The large print giveth and the small print taketh away.
Heartbreak of psoriasis? Buddy, you don't know the meaning of heartbreak!
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:56:20am |
re: #457 Jimmah
I hadn't realised they had a new show! I adore LoG. I'll probably have watched a lot of this one by the time we speak again, too. :)
Glad you're feeling better btw. How nasty!
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quiet man Sun, Jul 19, 2009 4:57:18am |
re: #459 buzzsawmonkey
Ignore that man behind the curtain!
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srb1976 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 5:02:49am |
Mornin' folks...just got home from work, hope everyone had a good night
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Jimmah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 5:06:40am |
re: #460 iceweasel
I hadn't realised they had a new show! I adore LoG. I'll probably have watched a lot of this one by the time we speak again, too. :)
Glad you're feeling better btw. How nasty!
Cheers! Look forward to comparing notes later.
I thought you might enjoy this clip from Mitchell and Webb btw - the series is patchy, IMO, but they are frequently very funny, as in this one:
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rightside Sun, Jul 19, 2009 5:09:54am |
re: #464 srb1976
nah, I think it was my arrival. Hope everything is good with you?
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srb1976 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 5:11:37am |
re: #466 rightside
absolutely...good day at work, kids are doing great, better half is asleep...that's all anyone can ask at 7 am...
How're things in your neck of the woods?
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soxfan4life Sun, Jul 19, 2009 5:15:45am |
re: #468 rightside
Good morning, am reporting to Fort Hood around August 3 to begin a new job as a civilian doing what I did in the Army, only getting better pay and no PT.
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srb1976 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 5:16:03am |
re: #468 rightside
Sounds great, around here silence is hard to come by, and cherished when you find it = )
Chaos, on the other hand, we have nearly cornered the market on = )
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Karridine Sun, Jul 19, 2009 5:17:46am |
re: #469 buzzsawmonkey
Listen carefully, and you can hear the gentle rustle of up- and downdings being distributed.
S'trooth... one updingy... two up-dingies...
EXCELLENT explication upthread on human rights, Buzz! :D
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 5:19:43am |
re: #465 Jimmah
Cheers! Look forward to comparing notes later.
I thought you might enjoy this clip from Mitchell and Webb btw - the series is patchy, IMO, but they are frequently very funny, as in this one:
Oh my god! LOVE IT!
I bet you've seen this...
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Karridine Sun, Jul 19, 2009 5:21:42am |
re: #473 buzzsawmonkey
Well, trying to keep my family ALIVE in this NOSEDIVING Thai economy has been VERY difficult, My Brother...
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Jimmah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 5:25:00am |
re: #474 iceweasel
First time I've seen that actually - totally insane combination, but works perfectly - very ingenious!
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srb1976 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 5:30:16am |
Ok, folks, was just dropping in to say hi = )
Have a great day!
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SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Jul 19, 2009 5:39:22am |
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 5:42:06am |
re: #478 Jimmah
First time I've seen that actually - totally insane combination, but works perfectly - very ingenious!
Isn't it odd? There are a few 2001/ papa lazarou mashups around now, I think. Love that one though.
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SixDegrees Sun, Jul 19, 2009 5:47:58am |
re: #480 SasquatchOnSteroids
Those dogs are gonna throw up in her shoes the minute they get the chance. Where's PETA when you need 'em?
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Jimmah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 5:49:58am |
re: #481 iceweasel
Isn't it odd? There are a few 2001/ papa lazarou mashups around now, I think. Love that one though.
I'm seeing that on youtube now...lol. Btw - I'm in an argument on Harry's Place just now- ever check it out?
[Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]
To me, the claim being put forward that Edmund Standing hacked the neo-nazi blog is plain stupid. If he had hacked it, the owners would have done what anyone with a hacked blog does - not get a new one with a different name! And why would he lie when he could be so easily exposed?
Comment culture on that site has always been a little weird to me, usually somewhat at odds with the views of the sites main contributers.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 5:54:42am |
re: #483 Jimmah
I'm seeing that on youtube now...lol. Btw - I'm in an argument on Harry's Place just now- ever check it out?
[Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]
To me, the claim being put forward that Edmund Standing hacked the neo-nazi blog is plain stupid. If he had hacked it, the owners would have done what anyone with a hacked blog does - not get a new one with a different name! And why would he lie when he could be so easily exposed?
Comment culture on that site has always been a little weird to me, usually somewhat at odds with the views of the sites main contributers.
Jimmah, had meant to tell you a while ago that I'm reading there now solely because of the times you've mentioned it here.
I haven't looked at this new dust up, will check it out. I haven't really looked at the comments sections; if you're there and recommend it I might start popping in.
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SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Jul 19, 2009 5:56:40am |
re: #482 SixDegrees
Those dogs are gonna throw up in her shoes the minute they get the chance. Where's PETA when you need 'em?
Over at the SanFran Zoo. Apparently, that gay penguin left his tranny boyfriend for that hot little dish Linda and they're quite upset.
In this week's issue of You've Got To Be Fucking Kidding Me.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 5:57:24am |
re: #449 buzzsawmonkey
I don't really care if iceweasel comes to understand that "human rights" are an agency of oppression, not freedom, and that they are antithetical to liberty protected by civil rights, or not.
I do care that the rest of the posters here understand it.
We were talking about this a couple of months ago (or more). I think the problem is that Human Rights and "Human Rights" are very different things in practice.
This runs aground on the same rocks as so much of the ID kerfuffle, with many interpretations of where the line between faith and political machinations falls between the terms used to address those issues.
When I speak of Human Rights, I am speaking of things squarely in line with the Declaration and the Constitution. But FDR's "Four Freedoms" are not at all in line with either of those things, and certainly most "Human Rights" organizations are so focused on outcomes that they would trample the very Human Rights that they purport to support.
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Jimmah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:01:40am |
re: #484 iceweasel
That would be great. I don't post there often, but sometimes I see something there that draws me in, as on this occasion. (I'm sure you can guess by the nick which one is me.) There's another thread there with an update -
[Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]
Some people there using very craven means to defend scum if you ask me.
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SixDegrees Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:03:01am |
re: #485 SasquatchOnSteroids
Over at the SanFran Zoo. Apparently, that gay penguin left his tranny boyfriend for that hot little dish Linda and they're quite upset.
In this week's issue of You've Got To Be Fucking Kidding Me.
Yes, I heard about this. Gays are pretty accepting of Byes, though, so I'm sure it'll all work out in the end.
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reine.de.tout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:06:04am |
re: #449 buzzsawmonkey
I don't really care if iceweasel comes to understand that "human rights" are an agency of oppression, not freedom, and that they are antithetical to liberty protected by civil rights, or not.
I do care that the rest of the posters here understand it.
Many of us do, and appreciate your series of posts here on this.
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Joshua Cohen Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:06:44am |
Fecking Taliban...showing this trooper on video :(
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:06:50am |
re: #487 Jimmah
That would be great. I don't post there often, but sometimes I see something there that draws me in, as on this occasion. (I'm sure you can guess by the nick which one is me.) There's another thread there with an update -
[Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]
Some people there using very craven means to defend scum if you ask me.
definitely. I haven't read all of it yet but I note with interest that ES is mentioning the Deborah Lipstadt book, which I have read and which scum are trying to distort.
I'll pop in soon. I'll chose a nic which you'll recognise. :)
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SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:08:31am |
re: #488 SixDegrees
Yes, I heard about this. Gays are pretty accepting of Byes, though, so I'm sure it'll all work out in the end.
heh.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:13:18am |
re: #459 buzzsawmonkey
Just out of curiosity, I'd like to know how someone can cite to the line that "men are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights" as support for the idea of "human rights" while simultaneously disavowing the existence of the very Creator which supposedly endowed them.
Seems to me an awful lot like those human remoras who trust that they will not catch vile diseases because they count on their neighbors being vaccinated to protect them, while refusing to be vaccinated themselves.
I'm your Huckleberry. I am an agnostic. You could say I'm a "show-me" fundamentalist. I can think of no more efficient a device to remove the Rights of Man from the domain of Man than by ascribing them to a source which A) if you have faith, is unassailable due to its nature, and B) if you have no faith, is unassailable due to its nature.
Anything which is subject to logical argument is subject to illigocal argument. I hold my rights in higher regard than that. When president Bush said that "Freedom is not America's gift to the world--it is the Almighty's gift to Man", I could not have agreed more. (This has been stated in part or whole since at least Jefferson).
Laws tell us what is legal and what is not. Jurisdiction tells us where and when the law applies. I am quite happy to have our rights in no man's jurisdiction.
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:15:00am |
Good morning y'all - from a GORGEOUS (64 degrees going up to 85 degrees) bright and sunny Charlotte!
How is everyone doing this morning?
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bbuddha Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:15:33am |
Good Morning all.
What a lovely day it is...tra la la
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Hengineer Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:16:14am |
re: #494 realwest
Good morning y'all - from a GORGEOUS (64 degrees going up to 85 degrees) bright and sunny Charlotte!
How is everyone doing this morning?
oddly enough I'm in Charlotte for the morning actually!
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Joshua Cohen Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:16:30am |
re: #494 realwest
Good morning y'all - from a GORGEOUS (64 degrees going up to 85 degrees) bright and sunny Charlotte!
How is everyone doing this morning?
Unhappy - US has is own Gilad Shalit now. As I said - damn Taliban!
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Hengineer Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:16:52am |
re: #496 Hengineer
oddly enough I'm in Charlotte for the morning actually!
On vacation and so my parents drove up through Charleston (Where our shipyard is at), picked me up and we stayed at my dad's brother's house for the night in Charlotte, NC
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Jimmah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:17:37am |
re: #491 iceweasel
Cheers IW! I was looking on youtube for something with "You rock" as the title, but this was the nearest good tune I could get...
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:18:51am |
Daily Presidential Tracking Poll (Rasmussen)
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows that 30% of the nation's voters now Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty-seven percent (37%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of –7 (see trends).
Voters see cost, not universal coverage, as the biggest health care concern Sixty-seven percent (67%) say that people with chronic conditions such as diabetes should not pay higher health insurance premiums. Half (50%) now oppose creation of a public insurance company to compete with private insurers. Seventy-eight percent (78%) believe that health care reform is likely to lead to middle class tax hikes.
[Link: www.rasmussenreports.com...]
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Hengineer Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:19:25am |
In the meantime I wake up to find out the US barely beat Panama in its CONCACAF Gold Cup ambitions and are set to face Honduras in the Semi-Final on the 23rd.
My dad and I have tickets for the CONCACAF Gold Cup Final game in the Giants Stadium!
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:19:50am |
re: #496 Hengineer
Reall? Cool! How long are y'all gonna be here?
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Hengineer Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:21:17am |
re: #502 realwest
Reall? Cool! How long are y'all gonna be here?
Hah just until we leave around noontime. We're driving up to Norfolk and spending the night there (I think).
Its a driving vacation (which for me) culminates in Saratoga Springs, where I visit with my little sister (1st class Machinst Mate Nuke). My parents are going to continue on driving back to California, though.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:24:00am |
So I'm listening to Say That You're Here (Riva Vocal Version Bzw. Remix) by Fragma, from Velfarre Cyber Trance '03.
It has an absolutely haunting, compelling chord progression which simply must be classical in origin. Gotta find out more about this song.
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bbuddha Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:24:01am |
re: #500 realwest
Daily Presidential Tracking Poll (Rasmussen)
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows that 30% of the nation's voters now Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty-seven percent (37%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of –7 (see trends).
Voters see cost, not universal coverage, as the biggest health care concern Sixty-seven percent (67%) say that people with chronic conditions such as diabetes should not pay higher health insurance premiums. Half (50%) now oppose creation of a public insurance company to compete with private insurers. Seventy-eight percent (78%) believe that health care reform is likely to lead to middle class tax hikes.
[Link: www.rasmussenreports.com...]
I'm a bit surprised that the opposed to public ins co isn't higher than 50%. I shouldn't be, this is the same "public" that elected the zero
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Lincolntf Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:25:10am |
Morning all.
The leaders at the British Open just teed off. History in the making?
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:25:23am |
re: #497 Joshua Cohen
Good morning to you too. Yes, I heard about that, Fox News refused to show the video of that captured American Soldier (GOOD FOR FOX NEWS!) but described him as very young and being interrogated by a Taliban who spoke flawless english.
Mind you, I do feel very, very badly about this young troop, but I still want to know what the hell he was doing wandering around OFF Base on his own.
And I hope some US Army Rangers catch up to that group of Taliban before they kill that young trooper - and you know they will. I've believed that Gilad Shalit has been dead for some time now too.
That's the kind of shit we deal with when fighting these fucking barbarians. And yet WE get blamed for "Gitmo" for "Torture". *Spit*
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bbuddha Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:25:27am |
re: #503 Hengineer
Hah just until we leave around noontime. We're driving up to Norfolk and spending the night there (I think).
Its a driving vacation (which for me) culminates in Saratoga Springs, where I visit with my little sister (1st class Machinst Mate Nuke). My parents are going to continue on driving back to California, though.
So are you a navy family. 1st class machinist mate nuke, that sounds like fun
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:26:54am |
re: #503 Hengineer
Whoa, long drive for your folks there - and not exactly short for you either!
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:29:58am |
re: #505 bbuddha
Good morning bbuddha! Y'all should check the link; the divide is mostly Republican and a really high amount of Independents on the opposed side and almost entirely Leftist on the other side.
Indeed, according to Rasmussen, independents now tend to side in overwhelming numbers with Republians on a whole raft of ideas, but health care is the item du jour.
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Hengineer Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:34:02am |
re: #508 bbuddha
So are you a navy family. 1st class machinist mate nuke, that sounds like fun
my lil sister is, I'm a civilian mariner who works with MSC, on an oiler that gives fuel and other dry goods to navy ships when underway
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SixDegrees Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:34:21am |
re: #505 bbuddha
I'm a bit surprised that the opposed to public ins co isn't higher than 50%. I shouldn't be, this is the same "public" that elected the zero
The trend over time is one of decreasing support for publicly funded insurance. This is why Congress and the Administration are hell-bent on pushing a bill through as quickly as possible. The longer they wait, the more opposition there will be, as the reality of such a plan becomes more apparent and the details - and their inevitable consequences - become more well known.
Anything that can be done to slow this proposal down will ultimately be helpful to those opposed to it. This includes reaching out to the faction of Democrats opposed to it because it doesn't go far enough, oddly. As well as those Democrats who are opposed because it's fiscally irresponsible.
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J.S. Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:35:11am |
re: #426 buzzsawmonkey
Michael Ignatieff spells this out in "Rights Revolution" (and then gets himself into kerfuffles, along with mind numbing contradictions)...a hilarious read.
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Hengineer Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:35:45am |
re: #509 realwest
Whoa, long drive for your folks there - and not exactly short for you either!
well my mother hates flying, so its great for them to drive together, and Ive done it once myself, our country is amazing, there really is a lot to see and do!
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Joshua Cohen Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:36:58am |
re: #507 realwest
Yes. And what I never understood - why they not just ask for a Polaroid with him showing an actual newspaper before any other negotiations.
Esp. after the outcome with Goldwasser and Regev.
And they got this child killer Kuntar and around 400 other for their dead, mutilated bodys in parts.
Hope the US does much better!
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bbuddha Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:38:42am |
re: #510 realwest
It gives me hope that with all the advertising to the contrary many people still understand that this road Obama wants to take us on isn't good for anyone. As I understand it part of the plan is forced health insurance. What a crock that is. There are people that aren't interested in health ins for a variety of reasons, ie they tend toward alternative treatment that isn't covered anyway.
My significant other and I opted toward a health care savings account. We're basically self insured. I do have coverage through work but he's retired and by the time I'm ready to retire ( 10 - 20 yrs depending on the market) it should be fully funded. We'd want a catastrophic plan only, if that is available at that time.
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bbuddha Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:41:14am |
re: #513 SixDegrees
I'm actually reaching out to my two RINOs', Yep, I live in the state responsible for Snow and Collins. Hopefully they will resist (for a change) the siren call to be "bipartisan"
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J.S. Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:41:36am |
re: #486 haakondahl
Here, in Canada, there is an additional interpretation of "human rights" (as is also spelled out by Ignatieff), and those are "group rights. " In other words, certain groups are to be privileged above others.
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Born Again Republican Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:41:39am |
re: #500 realwest
But "51% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance" is what counts at the voting booth according to Rassmusen. That has remained constant for during the fall of the index rating. That's the number I'd like to see fall.
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:42:24am |
re: #517 Joshua Cohen
Thanks and I still hope that Gilad is still alive - just doubt it rather strongly.
And I strongly doubt the Army when it says they don't know what this young trooper was doing wandering around off base on his own.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:44:28am |
re: #518 buzzsawmonkey
That is because the "Four Freedoms" are modern-day human rights, wholly concerned with equality of outcome.
The Constitution does not concern itself with "human rights" save to protect them by guaranteeing civil rights to prevent the government from trampling on the individual's exercise of freedom.
Human beings have rights.
Humans have them regardless of the government they live under, and regardless of whether or not there is a Maker.
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:45:26am |
re: #519 bbuddha
WHAT? You want CHOICE in your health care insurance?!?
We can't be letting you have that because, uh, because then everyone will want a choice in healthcare and that's gonna make it impossible for the US to have a great National Health Care set up as they have in Canada and Great Britain.
/heavy.
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SixDegrees Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:46:11am |
re: #521 bbuddha
I'm actually reaching out to my two RINOs', Yep, I live in the state responsible for Snow and Collins. Hopefully they will resist (for a change) the siren call to be "bipartisan"
My prospects, at least for convincing my representatives to embrace Conservatism, are about as dim as they can get. All of them are long-incumbent Democrats with no worries about winning reelection.
That doesn't mean they're beyond reach, though. A strong voicing of opposition from their constituents may not be enough to rout them from office, but it would be enough to mean that they might have to spend actual, serious money during their campaigns, which they would much rather keep sloshing around in campaign coffers for use as bribes and patronage handouts. So making your voice heard can never be a bad thing.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:46:34am |
re: #527 buzzsawmonkey
BTW, "Cronkite" is a re-spelling of the German/Yiddish word "Krankheit," i.e., sickness.
Now that the sickness is no longer with us, does that mean the body politic is on the mend?
That's distasteful and not worthy of you, or indeed anyone here.
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J.S. Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:47:06am |
re: #525 bbuddha
Ignatieff very nearly (with his "special status" for Quebec) re-opened old wounds (re: Quebec sovereignty, etc.) -- Ignatieff spent decades living in the United States (attending Harvard and teaching there), then he returned to Canada (to be crowned Liberal leader), and the first thing he did on his return was start yakking about Quebec's special rights...
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bbuddha Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:48:05am |
re: #528 realwest
LOL, I know, I'm just a rebel. Wanting choice when it comes to my body. What a concept.
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SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:48:22am |
re: #526 iceweasel
Human beings have rights.
Humans have them regardless of the government they live under, and regardless of whether or not there is a Maker.
Granted by whom/what ?
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:48:53am |
re: #499 Jimmah
Cheers IW! I was looking on youtube for something with "You rock" as the title, but this was the nearest good tune I could get...
[Video]
You rock, Jimmah. :) Catch you later, I hope! (i'll pitch in over on H'sP, also)
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The Other Les Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:49:36am |
This idiot needs to resign, right f**king now:
COLUMBIA, S.C. – South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford, still clinging to office after admitting to an extramarital affair, wrote in an opinion piece released Sunday that God will change him so he can emerge from the scandal a more humble and effective leader.
Authority is based on knowledge. It is very readily apparent that this bozoid is completely clueless when it comes to knowledge of proper moral conduct.
Sanford either needs to resign or switch over to the other party, ya know, the folks who believe that authority is solely based on the number of ballots that someone (and their known associates) can stuff into a box (regardless of the actual number of eligible voters).
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:50:28am |
re: #526 iceweasel
Human beings have rights.
Humans have them regardless of the government they live under, and regardless of whether or not there is a Maker.
What?! What sort of human rights did the Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals have under ole Adolph Hitler? How about those tens of millions who disageed with Josef Stalin? Pol Pot? And if you can find it, run down the list of "violaters" of Human Rights under the UN Human Rights Commission.
Oh and good morning to you!
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bbuddha Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:51:13am |
re: #531 J.S.
It's been a while since I read Animal Farm but wouldn't that make him a pig?
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Jimmah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:51:46am |
RDF TV - Ants that farm, compost and weed
[Link: richarddawkins.net...]
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:51:55am |
re: #527 buzzsawmonkey
Good morning buzz! I don't know how else to say this, but your comment was just...wrong in any number of ways, not the least to sort of equate the death of Walter Cronkite and the sickness pervading this nation.
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legalpad Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:52:51am |
re: #527 buzzsawmonkey
Many here do not agree with Cronkite's ideology. Yesterday I damn near called him a devil, but in civilized terms and no reference to his and his family's personal tragedy. We like not being like the Daily Kos or Huffington Post.
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J.S. Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:53:29am |
re: #537 buzzsawmonkey
There was a CBC reporter here who termed Cronkite, "America's voice of G-d" or words to that effect (and, yes, it was done, I believe, in a deliberately sneering fashion -- the standard anti-Americanism we get up here.)
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:54:55am |
re: #538 realwest
What?! What sort of human rights did the Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals have under ole Adolph Hitler? How about those tens of millions who disageed with Josef Stalin? Pol Pot? And if you can find it, run down the list of "violaters" of Human Rights under the UN Human Rights Commission.
Oh and good morning to you!
You can't possibly be citing the human rights violations of Hitler, PolPot and Stalin as proof that human beings don't have rights.
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J.S. Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:55:07am |
It was along the lines of: "America's voice of G-d has died."
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SixDegrees Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:57:03am |
re: #533 SasquatchOnSteroids
Granted by whom/what ?
In the Deist view of things - held by most of the Founders - they are part of the innate fabric of the universe. The notion of them being granted to individuals wouldn't have made any sense to Jefferson or most of the other authors of the Declaration.
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:57:19am |
re: #532 bbuddha
You say you want choice when it comes to your body? Whaddya - a member of N.O.W?!
/
There IS something to say, from a societal point of view, about requring folks to have health insurance since the alternative is to either let folks die in the streets or treat them at taxpayer expense - not the least of which, ironically enough, are taxpayers who in fact do have THEIR own health insurance.
But Government Run/Controlled Health Insurance is most assuredly NOT the way to go. Take it from one who's had experience with both the VA and Medicare. Geebus, my 11 year old neice could do a better job. And frankly, though she's cute and I love her, she's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer!
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Jimmah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:58:21am |
re: #537 buzzsawmonkey
You don't like the reality of translation?
Or is it that you do not believe blind national reliance on a single overly-trusted commentator--no matter who--is a sickness?
Maybe you missed this?
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:58:52am |
re: #536 The Other Les
Couldn't agree more - maybe he's shopping a book deal?!?
/
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Jimmah Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:01:24am |
re: #535 iceweasel
Catch you later too, iceweasel. Lunch time for me now.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:01:38am |
re: #544 Iron Fist
I'm not sure I agree with you. If there is no Maker, where do said rights come from? With no Creator, pretty much all Natural Law-based political theory can be scrapped (as it all rests on Natural Laws that were set up by a Creator). You still have the Social Contract theory that came out of it, but that really has all rights coming out of the Contract when it is defined. Before that, we have all rights, and we surrender them (some of them) when we form the Contract. In a Hobbsian State of Nature we have all the rights we can take and keep ("you keep what you kill"), but those are enforced by the individual.
See, this is the real question, and the deep question. What rights, if any, do human beings have? And in what do those rights inhere?
These are deep questions. It is convenient to posit that some unalienable rights were endowed by a Creator-- which is what the Declaration did, precisely to avoid these questions. The Declaration was drawing on John Locke, among others. But the split in their own thinking is apparent when they stressed separation of church and state, and freedom of (and from) religion.
Depending on one's theory of government and theory of human nature, you get a different story about what rights are and where they derive from. As you note, for Hobbes and in his State of Nature the only 'rights' one has are the ones secured by strength.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:05:23am |
re: #554 Jimmah
Catch you later too, iceweasel. Lunch time for me now.
Later! Cheers Jimmah, see you soon.
really must go now!
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:05:24am |
re: #545 iceweasel
You can't possibly be citing the human rights violations of Hitler, PolPot and Stalin as proof that human beings don't have rights.
Why can't I? And I love the way you talk about Hitler Pol Pot and Stalin as "human rights violators". But ok, look at the record of Daniel Ortega 30 or so years ago in Nicaragua, or Fidel Castro in Cuba or Hugo Chavez in Venezuela - human rights can be violated and denied in much less ham fisted ways that Hitler, et. al. Better yet, try living in a military dictatorship - as I sorta did - and see 6-8 men from that nation sitting around and one of them bitches about something about the current government. Then watch (as I did) when his ass is hauled off by the Military in the middle of the night, never to be heard from again.
As I said, look up the nations that are identified as not granting "human rights" but the UN Council for same - hell for that matter look at who comprise the UN Human Rights Council.
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axegrinder Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:05:39am |
re: #522 J.S.
Here, in Canada, there is an additional interpretation of "human rights" (as is also spelled out by Ignatieff), and those are "group rights. " In other words, certain groups are to be privileged above others.
We have that too. It's called Affirmative Action here. And Unions.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:07:18am |
re: #514 buzzsawmonkey
You make my very point in two ways.First, you correctly point out that ascribing the Creator as the source of rights renders their existence unassailable. That is precisely why they are so ascribed in the Declaration; to render them outside of, and superior to, the mere laws of man.
On this we agree, and this is not your point.
In addition, you confirm my point that the rights of man--liberty--is something that must be protected by law. The Constitution does this by leaving the rights of man alone--by specifically not enumerating them, but leaving them to individual human operation or behavior--and instead merely enumerating the civil rights which are held against the government, to prevent government from impinging on the operations of liberty, i.e., the exercise of human rights. Start enumerating and limiting "human rights" by having them specified and enacted by the government, and you are decreasing liberty, not increasing or protecting it.
On this we also agree, and this is also not your point.
Second, by making specific reference to being an agnostic, yet citing to the Declaration which states specifically that "inalienable rights" are "endowed by [Man's] Creator," you point up the fundamental philosophic problem in which people find themselves by citing to the Declaration as the source of human rights while specifically rejecting the existence of the Creator which the document they are citing flatly states is the source of those rights.
This is not a philosophic problem, per se. This is an epistemological problem, perhaps for you. If it bothered me, perhaps it would be a problem for me.
Nothing against agnostics, nor against the atheists among our number here. But not one of them has been able to say how they can legitimately (and consistently) cite to a document as confirming the existence of their rights while explicitly rejecting the very basis on which the document they are citing states that those rights exist.
This is equivalent to saying that if you do not believe that the Earth is exactly 6,000 years and some number of days old, then you are not a Christian. You remind me a bit of Dennis Prager (whom I adore) when he says that for people without faith, life is pointless in the big picture. Wrong. Life is not pointless for agnostics and atheists, it's just not simple to derive from other works.
It is in fact a very "progressive" or unconstrained position to require the epistemological derivation of conclusions which the conservative or constrained vision can "plainly see" is true.
I am a conservative of the stripe that feels that the Bible may in fact be, among other things, the collected wisdom of all humankind within reach at a given time, written down in such a way as to ensure its propagation, whether consciously as a gambit, or genuinely as a sincere expression of what the (earthly) author believed to be true. Our forebears, whether thousands or hundreds of years ago, were not one iota less intelligent than we are, and knew that they were writing for the ages, because they bothered to write at all. If Moses wrote for effect, fine. If the Founding Fathers wrote for effect, fine.
Please take this in a friendly tone, but if you still do not see, and cannot admit, how I view the Declaration as completely valid and a masterful stroke, then that is not a failure on my end. I am not cutting off discussion (or flouncing from a thread)--I'll be glad to go on about this, but I am running out of room in this post.
I'm not hostile or angry, just passionate, as I know you are, and my whole point is that we are really in the same position--we just get there from different places.
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bbuddha Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:07:37am |
re: #549 realwest
Bite your tongue, member of NOW indeed. Not freakin likely.
I don't agree with mandating health ins. I think that society has gotten away from personal responsibility in many ways and that is just one. There is no reason that you can't pay for regular visits and day to day health care yourself. We don't expect our vehicle ins to pay for regular maintenance. Vehicle ins is about 1/12th the cost of health ins. What my employer pays for my health coverage (rarely used) monthly is about the same as what i pay for one of my vehicles yearly. I do realize this is a great simplification there is a lot that goes into the medical side of things but it will continue to be unreasonably expensive the longer we aren't paying for it ourselves ($10 asprin)
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legalpad Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:07:56am |
re: #556 Iron Fist
Walter Cronkite did more to help the North Vietnamese win the Vietnam War than the Viet Kong did (a lot more). He almost single-handdedly turned Tet from a crushing defeat into a political victory. This has changed the pattern of warfare and almost totally defines the assymetric warfare that we are fighting against in the war on Jihadi terror.
He was a very influential man, and he used his influence for evil purposes. Why should we not, therefore, consider him an evil man?
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SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:08:21am |
re: #548 SixDegrees
I'll agree with that.
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:08:51am |
re: #550 buzzsawmonkey
I do, however, believe that we have learned it is unwise for us, as a nation, to rely upon and trust a single commentator as Cronkite was relied upon and trusted.
Ah, on that we do agree my friend. Completely.
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razorbacker Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:10:46am |
"Daddy. Daddy. DAD!"
'What?'
"As long as you're already awake, would you get up and fix me breakfast?"
'I ain't awake. Go away.'
"You are awake. Here's some coffee. Now please get up and fix me breakfast."
'Wake up yore Momma.'
"Uh-uh. She's cranky in the mornings.'
'Oh, alright. What do you want?'
"Biscuits and gravy, fried backstrap, scrambled eggs, and homefries."
'That ain't breakfast, that's a daily recommended allowance. Besides, don't go poking around the 'fridge to see what I've got thawed. It's not polite."
"Comeon. If you get up and get started you'll be finished by the time I have to leave for church."
'You're gonna need someone to pray over you. You surely are. Okay, get out of here and let me get some clothes on."
""Would you two shut up and get out!?""
'Now look what you've done. You woke the bear.'
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axegrinder Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:11:36am |
re: #555 iceweasel
See, this is the real question, and the deep question. What rights, if any, do human beings have? And in what do those rights inhere?
These are deep questions. It is convenient to posit that some unalienable rights were endowed by a Creator-- which is what the Declaration did, precisely to avoid these questions. The Declaration was drawing on John Locke, among others. But the split in their own thinking is apparent when they stressed separation of church and state, and freedom of (and from) religion.
Depending on one's theory of government and theory of human nature, you get a different story about what rights are and where they derive from. As you note, for Hobbes and in his State of Nature the only 'rights' one has are the ones secured by strength.
I mostly agree with Hobbes but rights can be given as well as taken. In a democracy we as citizens are 'given' rights. Whether or not we deserve them we have them anyway. As with anything else, of course, what is given can be taken away.
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FrogMarch Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:12:16am |
Good morning all:
Obama says:
Now we know there are those who will oppose reform no matter what (straw man). We know the same special interests and their agents in Congress will make the same old arguments, and use the same scare tactics that have stopped reform before because they profit from this relentless escalation in health care costs. And I know that once you’ve seen enough ads and heard enough people yelling on TV, you might begin to wonder whether there’s a grain of truth to what they’re saying. So let me take a moment to answer a few of their arguments.
First, the same folks who controlled the White House and Congress for the past eight years as we ran up record deficits will argue – believe it or not – that health reform will lead to record deficits. That’s simply not true. Our proposals cut hundreds of billions of dollars in unnecessary spending and unwarranted giveaways to insurance companies in Medicare and Medicaid. They change incentives so providers will give patients the best care, not just the most expensive care, which will mean big savings over time. And we have urged Congress to include a proposal for a standing commission of doctors and medical experts to oversee cost-saving measures.
For crying out loud - what a load of crap.
[Link: gatewaypundit.blogspot.com...]
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bbuddha Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:15:22am |
re: #567 FrogMarch
the man suffers from diarreah of the mouth, great quantity of words with a noxious smell
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Macker Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:17:01am |
re: #10 sngnsgt
Repost from the bottom of last thread, but it's fun:
Here's what I came up with...
"You know, there's a lot of talk in this country about Deviancy. Well I think Americans are tired of the same old Socialists. Ordinary Americans believe in Christians and Jews, they want less Communists, they just aren't sure if their leaders believe in Unity."
Now that really IS science fiction.
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SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:18:09am |
re: #568 Iron Fist
As an example, what has Dan Rather been doing for the last four years other than unsuccessfully suing CBS?
watching Katie Couric and eating a lot of crow.
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Truck Monkey Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:18:20am |
re: #569 bbuddha
His time to pass his utopian crap is close to expiring. Most of the American people are starting to catch on to this grifters game and no longer support him. I believe that his self immolation will be spectacular.
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Macker Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:18:25am |
re: #536 The Other Les
Do you really want Governor Sanford to hook up with Barney Frank?
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:18:55am |
re: #555 iceweasel
"the split in their own thinking is apparent when they stressed separation of church and state, and freedom of (and from) religion." Came about more because of their own frightful experiences with the Church of England and it's continually siding with the monarch against the people, than anything else. Thye didn't want religion of any kind to be part of government.
And y'all know (this isn't directed at you iceweasel) that we all ought to remember that the Declaration and more importantly the Bill of Rights are perhaps two of the most valued and beloved expressions of human rights in the history of mankind; and they were written at a time when NO country had ever tried or believed in what the Founding Fathers did: that the governed ought to do the governing. At, and in their time, this was as radical a political notion as one could find anywhere.
And all you need to do is go to some source material - the diaries, say, of some of the Founding Fathers, particularly Jefferson and Adams - to realize that they were really arguing over how best to limit the government while still assuring that the citizens would have unfettered access to the rights they believe were indeed granted by the Creator.
We all - but mostly we American Citizens owe more of a debt of gratitude to the Founding Fathers than we realize, even now.
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Macker Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:19:16am |
re: #572 SasquatchOnSteroids
watching Katie Couric and eating a lot of
crowshit.
There, fixed that for ya!
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SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:19:46am |
re: #565 razorbacker
"Daddy. Daddy. DAD!"
'What?'
"As long as you're already awake, would you get up and fix me breakfast?"
'I ain't awake. Go away.'
"You are awake. Here's some coffee. Now please get up and fix me breakfast."
'Wake up yore Momma.'
"Uh-uh. She's cranky in the mornings.'
'Oh, alright. What do you want?'
"Biscuits and gravy, fried backstrap, scrambled eggs, and homefries."
'That ain't breakfast, that's a daily recommended allowance. Besides, don't go poking around the 'fridge to see what I've got thawed. It's not polite."
"Comeon. If you get up and get started you'll be finished by the time I have to leave for church."
'You're gonna need someone to pray over you. You surely are. Okay, get out of here and let me get some clothes on."
""Would you two shut up and get out!?""
'Now look what you've done. You woke the bear.'
Do NOT piss off Happy Fun Ball.
/been there, done that.
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Truck Monkey Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:19:50am |
re: #572 SasquatchOnSteroids
watching Katie Couric and eating a lot of crow.
Is that what you kids are calling it nowadays...
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axegrinder Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:20:11am |
re: #568 Iron Fist
It needs to be said. It needs to be repeated. We should never allow someone like him to exist again. I am not talking about a violent solution to the problem, but that with the advent of the internet, it should no longer be possible for an enemy propaganda agent, be he Walter Cronkite or Dick Durbin (D-al Qaeda), to successfully lie to the nation in that manner ever again. Expose them for what they are, and let the market take care of the rest.
As an example, what has Dan Rather been doing for the last four years other than unsuccessfully suing CBS?
I thought he got an undisclosed cash settlement? Couldn't have been much 'cause CBS is broke.
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SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:21:14am |
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axegrinder Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:21:52am |
re: #569 bbuddha
the man suffers from diarreah of the mouth, great quantity of words with a noxious smell
If only that were so. He's where he is because he has such a silver tongue. He uses his lips purtier then a 1,000 dollar Ho and the public just eats it up.
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bbuddha Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:22:05am |
Gotta go, tons to do before I can sleep. Have a wonderful day everyone
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FrogMarch Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:22:57am |
re: #568 Iron Fist
Cronkite paved the way for editorialized news. The left realized it worked, and still use his example this very day.
Cronkite was a key figure in many ways, but foremost among them, perhaps, was the fact that he cleared the way for the mainstream media and the Establishment to join what Lionel Trilling called “the adversary culture.” Cronkite, the gravelly voice of accepted American wisdom, whose comportment suggested he kept his money in bonds and would never even have considered exceeding the speed limit, devastated President Lyndon Johnson in the wake of the 1968 Tet Offensive by declaring that the United States “was mired in stalemate” in Vietnam—when Johnson knew that Tet had been a military triumph.
[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]
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bbuddha Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:24:12am |
re: #584 axegrinder
If only that were so. He's where he is because he has such a silver tongue. He uses his lips purtier then a 1,000 dollar Ho and the public just eats it up.
I know I said I was going but...He does NOT have a silver tongue. He can read well. I've have actually listened to him speak without a telepromter. It was painful. I felt sorry for him, and I don't even like him.
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legalpad Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:24:16am |
re: #560 haakondahl
Enjoyed that! A basic theory, I think, is that we naturally possess rights, that it is not something written that gives them to us, but simply acknowledges them. We could naturally possess them because God gave them or because they are the only conditions under which we will honor any social contract. We, of course, understand that murderers and the like can take these rights by criminal action. They can even take over the government and declare their actions to be the law of the land. If they do, we "dissolve the political bands" which connect us. We do not ask anyone or anything to give us rights. We declare that we have them and, how do I put this, "oppose" anyone who deprives us of them.
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razorbacker Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:24:24am |
re: #578 SasquatchOnSteroids
Do NOT piss off Happy Fun Ball.
/been there, done that.
That's alright. For years, she's been 'doing it' with her eyes closed because she hates to see me enjoy myself.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:24:31am |
re: #518 buzzsawmonkey
That is because the "Four Freedoms" are modern-day human rights, wholly concerned with equality of outcome.
The Constitution does not concern itself with "human rights" save to protect them by guaranteeing civil rights to prevent the government from trampling on the individual's exercise of freedom.
Agreed. None of which makes Human Rights a dirty phrase. It's the "Human Right"-istas who do that.
If we agree that God grants rights to humans, God grants Human Rights, not civil rights, and this is the purview of the Declaration. We declared ourselves free of British government based on Human Rights that transcended the concern of government. The Constitution protects those rights by carving holes in the authority of government--civil rights.
I think we are in close agreement here, no?
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FrogMarch Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:25:51am |
re: #571 Iron Fist
The audacity of audacity. Damn, but that quote takes the cake. The world's record deficit spending holder will criticize the Bush Administration for deficits? And the lap dog media will let him get away with it.
Obama is hoping his blind faith followers will buy his load of crap. (Notice too - that it is Obama who is perpetrating the scare mongering.)
I just hope saner heads prevail. Nationalized Health Care will bankrupt this nation.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:27:39am |
re: #522 J.S.
Here, in Canada, there is an additional interpretation of "human rights" (as is also spelled out by Ignatieff), and those are "group rights. " In other words, certain groups are to be privileged above others.
Yup. "Group Rights" are possible, but only if we are willing to scrap liberty, security, human AND civil rights, etc... it is the triumph of organizations over people. "Group rights" are antithetical to freedom.
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:27:41am |
re: #556 Iron Fist
Good morning bro' - Well if y'all look up even in Wiki, you'll see that the communist lost more than half of their troops to death - doesn't include how many more were so badly wounded. And indeed that both Ho Chi Minh and General Giap (who had personally resisted the Tet offensive) were crushed by the results, fearing, in Giaps' case, that the South and the Americans and other allied forces would simply steamroller the South and perhaps even North Vietnam. But their spirits were buoyed enormously by Uncle Walter's reporting. But I honestly don't think Walter Cronkite was TRYING to undermine our efforts in the war - again, just using wiki, you'll see what a great journalist he was, UNDER FIRE, during WWII - I just think that Cronkite lacked a truly substantial grasp about the entire war and the fact that a bunch of lightly armed and rag-tag body of men could go after the US Embassy in Saigon the capitol of South Vietnam, meant to him that the communists had won a significant victory. That he never looked deeper into it at a later date does not put him in a scholar's position on the war. But I also don't think he DELIBERATELY undermined the US effort in Vietnam.
He wasn't in Robert Strange McNamara's class at all.
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axegrinder Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:27:52am |
re: #589 razorbacker
That's alright. For years, she's been 'doing it' with her eyes closed because she hates to see me enjoy myself.
That's a good one. Is that original or did you steal it?
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SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:28:40am |
re: #589 razorbacker
That's alright. For years, she's been 'doing it' with her eyes closed because she hates to see me enjoy myself.
My, my, that might be a little TMI.
heh.
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Walter L. Newton Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:30:15am |
re: #590 haakondahl
Agreed. None of which makes Human Rights a dirty phrase. It's the "Human Right"-istas who do that.
If we agree that God grants rights to humans, God grants Human Rights, not civil rights, and this is the purview of the Declaration. We declared ourselves free of British government based on Human Rights that transcended the concern of government. The Constitution protects those rights by carving holes in the authority of government--civil rights.
I think we are in close agreement here, no?
Unless you are an atheist. At that point, one can still agree, but the source of those rights may vary. Which is fine with me, as long as humans can support those right because they are good and wholesome. But the fact is, in the past, religionist have actually denied those rights to certain slices of humanity, ergo, slavery, radical Islam, the Jew haters.
So, I prefer to see those rights as given by man to man, and not rely on someone's "insight" to some man written religious text.
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jvic Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:31:01am |
re: #568 Iron Fist
It needs to be said. It needs to be repeated. We should never allow someone like him to exist again...
Agreed. But today's danger may be different. Instead of heeding a trusted voice that speaks magisterial falsehoods, we are overwhelmed by babble. From the right, ranting babble of the Glenn Beck ilk; from the left, pedigreed babble on the MSM.
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razorbacker Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:31:59am |
re: #595 axegrinder
That's a good one. Is that original or did you steal it?
If you see anything good under my nic you can reliably assume that it is stolen.
Although a bunch of us guys were bemoaning our knee problems one evening and one of the younger ladies spouted off, "All you old men crying about your knees. You just fall apart when you get old."
"Hell, Girlie, thirty years of doggy-style is gonna take a toll. You just give ol' Jeremy there another 28 years and come back and report."
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axegrinder Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:32:12am |
re: #592 FrogMarch
Obama is hoping his blind faith followers will buy his load of crap. (Notice too - that it is Obama who is perpetrating the scare mongering.)
I just hope saner heads prevail. Nationalized Health Care will bankrupt this nation.
Nah, we just need another stimulus package. Didn't you hear Joey Biden speak the other day? We can spend our way out of debt! It's like Magic!///
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The Other Les Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:32:15am |
re: #574 Macker
Do you really want Governor Sanford to hook up with Barney Frank?
I don't see why not?
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:32:34am |
re: #533 SasquatchOnSteroids
Granted by whom/what ?
Where did God come from?
I say that the rights are manifest in Man, unalterable, inalienable, irrevocable, and that this is just the way it is. You say that the rights were put there by God and that is just the way it is.
It's a little disorienting to hear the faithful clamoring for evidence, and a rigorous theory of origins. Especially when we agree.
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razorbacker Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:34:15am |
re: #604 The Other Les
I don't see why not?
Have you seen a picture of Maria and her sister?
Barney ain't got a chance.
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SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:34:22am |
re: #605 haakondahl
Where did God come from?
I say that the rights are manifest in Man, unalterable, inalienable, irrevocable, and that this is just the way it is. You say that the rights were put there by God and that is just the way it is.
It's a little disorienting to hear the faithful clamoring for evidence, and a rigorous theory of origins. Especially when we agree.
Wow, you assumed an awful lot right there. I never said anything of the sort, but thanks for playing.
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wahabicorridor Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:37:41am |
MORNING LIZARDIA
Haven't scanned the thread yet so I've no clue what y'all are talking about but want to be sure you see this. Truly hilarious. (h/t Tim Worstall)
Indeed, Paul Golby, who runs the British operations of E.ON, Europe’s biggest wind-power producer, has told the government that a 90% fossil fuel or nuclear back-up will be needed for any of the National Grid’s future wind-power capacity. As Martin Fuchs, his German boss, pointed out: “The wind, sadly, does not blow where large quantities of power are required . . . on September 12 last year wind power contributed 38% of our grid power requirements at all times, but on September 30 the figure went down to 0.2%.”
The powerful wind-turbine lobby in Germany constantly harps on about the number of jobs “created” by its subsidised investment, quite ignoring the number of jobs destroyed by high-cost energy, or indeed the greater number of jobs that could be created if the same amounts were invested in more profitable activities. This is why the Bremen Energy Institute argues that “wind energy macro-economically has a negative employment impact”.
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jill e Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:37:42am |
Pro-terror group to hold conference in Chicago suburb
Hizb ut-Tahrir, an international movement seeking to re-establish an international Islamic state and indoctrinate Muslims into supporting jihad, wants to step up its recruitment efforts in the U.S. On July 19, the group, whose alumni include 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, will hold a conference entitled "The Fall of Capitalism and the Rise of Islam" in the Grand Ballroom of the Hilton Hotel in Oak Lawn, reports Investigative Project.
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razorbacker Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:38:36am |
I'd best get to puttering around. Got a vehicle to clean, some molding to cut and trim out, and the usual this and that to do.
I see that the weather-guesser guesses that we're going to have a week of highs in the high 70s and low 80s. In July. Coolest temps since '67. I intend to enjoy what I get, when I get it.
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Walter L. Newton Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:40:27am |
re: #612 taxfreekiller
Obama is the fresh prince of Bill Ayers.
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J.S. Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:40:56am |
re: #593 haakondahl
In Canada, group rights are enshrined in the Constitution...(unlike the United States).
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Lincolntf Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:41:33am |
re: #570 Macker
I missed that thread. Here's my quote...
"You know, there's a lot of talk in this country about control. Well I think Americans are tired of the same old moonbats. Ordinary Americans believe in Americans, they want less idiots, they just aren't sure if their leaders believe in freedom."
Funny.
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:41:44am |
re: #561 bbuddha
Well of course I was joking about NOW! But "There is no reason that you can't pay for regular visits and day to day health care yourself." doesn't wash for those who are unemployed or are chronically underemployed or over-taxed to where their net income won't cover health insurance. Hell when they discovered I had cancer, I was in the hospital for three weeks - NO surgery; several radiological tests and two Oncologists visited me; other than that and medication, all the hospital "provided me with" was room and board - lousy room and worse board. And the bill for their services (I paid the radiology bills and doctor bills seperately) was $265,000. Yes, you read that correctly - three weeks and more than a quarter of a million bucks.
And since I couldn't pay it (n medical insurance and no where near that amount of cash available), I had to declare bankruptcy so the public paid for it. That's where I believe the government does have an obligation to step in and insist that all citizens have a medical insurance plan of some sort.
And it isn't medical insurance that results in that $10 aspirin, it's the personal injury lawyers - like Silky Pony John effin' Edwards and juries who think nothing of awardingmillions of dollars for "pain and suffering", feeling as they do, that the insurance company will pay for it, not the doctors - that drive up the cost of health care the most. Y'all can't hardly find an OBY/GYN doctor anywhere outside of metropolitan areas these days because of malpractice lawsuits and EVERY doctor these days requries certain tests - NOT because they think those tests will assist them in helping you, but because NOT ordering those tests could be used against them as "evidence" of malpractice. Tort lawyers have been more responsible - IMO - for the dramatic increase in health care costs than any other single cause.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:42:46am |
re: #534 buzzsawmonkey
Human beings do not have rights if those rights are not secured by their government. The Declaration, which you have been citing, says specifically that "to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men."
How can you say that if you believe that God grants these rights? We "secure" these rights through governments, but we do not presume that the rights originate with government (a point you have made several times). I can have property which others squat upon, or which yet others prevent me from accessing. It remains my property. This is actually a pretty good analogy (if I do say so), as our recognition of governments which do not recognize the inherent rights of their citizenry as "Sovereign" is equivalent to the shitty laws that recognize squatters' "rights" to land after squatting long enough.
The people in Iran have Human rights but not Civil ones. Because of this, they are *unable to exercise their Human rights*, but they assuredly retain them.
If people do not have the liberty that you believe they are entitled to, it is not because their government does not grant them "human rights." It is because the government itself is not limited to protect the liberty of those who live under it. That is a civil rights issue; "human rights" are the fraud which is substituted by people who do not want to look at that reality.
Uh, I think we agree. Focusing on Human Rights (an undeniable property of humankind) without civil rights (a mechanism to recognize human rights through limiting government's encroachments) is a fool's errand (or worse), with disastrous consequences.
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legalpad Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:44:03am |
re: #594 realwest
Morning Real - I don't think we're really trying to assess Mr. Cronkite's soul or anything. But whatever is wrong with these moonbats, whatever this is that allows them to edit out the mass death and atrocities directly attributed to people who they empower, sometimes even openly support, this is evil. It is hard to understand exactly where some of them fit in. Jan Fonda, for instance?
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FrogMarch Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:44:15am |
re: #603 axegrinder
Nah, we just need another stimulus package. Didn't you hear Joey Biden speak the other day? We can spend our way out of debt! It's like Magic!///
Yea! hope, change and magic! and a lifetime of 72 degree days.
Keep printing money and keep shoveling it to political cronies like the unions.
/that will turn it around! and then when the inevitable collapse happens- blame Bush and the GOP!
Weee
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:44:49am |
re: #568 Iron Fist
"As an example, what has Dan Rather been doing for the last four years other than unsuccessfully suing CBS?". YES.
And again, THANK YOU CHARLES!
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:45:08am |
re: #537 buzzsawmonkey
You don't like the reality of translation?
Or is it that you do not believe blind national reliance on a single overly-trusted commentator--no matter who--is a sickness?
I have come to expect better of you than this sort of false dichotomy.
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Walter L. Newton Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:46:23am |
re: #618 taxfreekiller
Laup Nor on the other hand is not of this earth, alien in every respect to the human cause.
re: #618 taxfreekiller
Laup Nor on the other hand is not of this earth, alien in every respect to the human cause.
Does he wear his "human" costume when he shows up at the tea party events?
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:50:41am |
re: #538 realwest
What?! What sort of human rights did the Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals have under ole Adolph Hitler? How about those tens of millions who disageed with Josef Stalin? Pol Pot? And if you can find it, run down the list of "violaters" of Human Rights under the UN Human Rights Commission.
Oh and good morning to you!
Real, how are you?
I think ice is absolutely right here. How else can we square the idea that the sweeping statements made in the Declaration apply to all mankind with the obvious depredations of some other governments?
We have successfully "secured" those rights (to a degree), but not one scrap of paper written in this country or elsewhere actually grants those rights, if they are truly granted by God.
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wahabicorridor Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:53:23am |
re: #625 haakondahl
I've forgotten exactly where she wrote it - and certainly don't remember the words verbatim, but Hannah Arandt made a good point about excluding people from the umbrella of law - as was done to the Jews, Roma, etc. They don't just lose their rights, they lose their humanity in a way.
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FrogMarch Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:54:02am |
re: #603 axegrinder
Nah, we just need another stimulus package. Didn't you hear Joey Biden speak the other day? We can spend our way out of debt! It's like Magic!///
Biden's gaffes are actually truth nuggets.
The "gaffes," as we call unscripted thoughts, come delightfully often with Biden. The latest: Speaking before the AARP, Biden aarped up a peculiar formulation to explain the need to borrow 3.2 bejillion dollars in order to transform the American health care system, preferably by next week. He said people ask him "What are you talking about, you're telling me we have to go spend money to keep from going bankrupt? The answer is yes, 'I'm telling you.'"
Lileks - hilarious!
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:54:11am |
re: #605 haakondahl
Where did God come from?
I say that the rights are manifest in Man, unalterable, inalienable, irrevocable, and that this is just the way it is. You say that the rights were put there by God and that is just the way it is.
It's a little disorienting to hear the faithful clamoring for evidence, and a rigorous theory of origins. Especially when we agree.
SO, why did it take nearly 1800 years after Christ - or after the supposed birth of Christ if you want to go on being either atheistic or agnostic - for mankind to put those rights on paper? Why did they feel the absolute NEED to put them on paper?
The answer is because they truly didn't exist until WE recognized them and made them a reality - an admittedly imperfect reality at the time, but also THE reality at the time?
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:55:07am |
re: #547 buzzsawmonkey
I don't disagree with you. I am merely looking to discover what the supposed source of those "rights" is, if there is no Maker.
I am tired of hypocritical, lying frauds who cite to the "inalienable rights" line of the Declaration as their justification for "human rights," even as they draw through the rest of the sentence, "endowed by their Creator," with a big fat black Magic Marker.
I don't disagree with their conclusion; I just want to know how they reached it, in a logically consistent manner, because it sure as hell ain't from the Declaration.
As a conservative, I logically give a lot of weight to learning from the experiences of others, particularly over hundreds of years, and to the tune of hundreds of millions of lives. I view it the height of conceit, arrogance, hubris to presume that my (or my professor's) epistemological scryings should gainsay what has been proven through blood and over time.
Logical enough?
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callahan23 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:55:29am |
re: #621 realwest
Hello Realwest,
just now entered. How are you my friend I have been thinking of you very intensely for last couple of days. Your email shook me to the bone.
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itellu3times Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:55:35am |
re: #616 realwest
Well of course I was joking about NOW! But "There is no reason that you can't pay for regular visits and day to day health care yourself." doesn't wash for those who are unemployed or are chronically underemployed or over-taxed to where their net income won't cover health insurance. ...
But medical insurance can't manufacture money out of thin air, either, just insurance agents, and insurance agents don't cure anybody.
That's why I say, cut to the nut, government should provide medical service, not unfunded mandates to every citizen that they must "buy insurance". You didn't have any insurance, it was too expensive. Will Obama make it cheaper? How, with unicorn dust?
I'm afraid I'm also ambivalent at best about the tort lawyers role in driving up costs. I say what drives up costs is incompetent doctors who should be sued and chased from the profession much faster than now. OK, that's not going to happen? Well, let's keep the lawyers around too then, it helps to keep the balance. Tho just how that would/will work, if and when government takes my advice and the doctors work for the government, I shudder to think.
But the real problem is that medicine is just very expensive to do, in time and training and materials and people, and the demand for it outstrips supply, and I suppose always will. We're a rich country, and I think we're rich enough to supply a fair amount of even this expensive medicine to every citizen, we're already doing so with a really clunky, ugly system. The way the Republicans need to look at this is, how do we improve the system. Takes a lot of rationality to do that, and that's not the kind of thing political parties are usually very big on.
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axegrinder Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:56:29am |
re: #620 FrogMarch
Yea! hope, change and magic! and a lifetime of 72 degree days.
Keep printing money and keep shoveling it to political cronies like the unions.
/that will turn it around! and then when the inevitable collapse happens- blame Bush and the GOP!
Weee
Unfortunately, that's the plan. So far it's working. I'm on message boards with European members. It's really shocking to me how much they hate Bush and Cheney. BDS times ten. Obama's plan of blaming Bush is working and may just get him elected in 2012. I sure hope not.
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:56:45am |
re: #613 Walter L. Newton
Obama is the fresh prince of Bill Ayers.
ROFLMAO! I am SO STEALING that line!
Oh and good morning Walter!
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wahabicorridor Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:57:00am |
Ok, everyone here loves Janeanne Garofolo right?
No. Well, apparently neither does anyone else.
Garofalo was due perform for half an hour, but left the stage after less than ten minutes when her routine about post-9/11 security checks at airports met with stony silence.
(h/t Tim Blair)
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FrogMarch Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:57:43am |
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FrogMarch Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:58:30am |
re: #632 axegrinder
Unfortunately, that's the plan. So far it's working. I'm on message boards with European members. It's really shocking to me how much they hate Bush and Cheney. BDS times ten. Obama's plan of blaming Bush is working and may just get him elected in 2012. I sure hope not.
Milking the hate. I swear the left don't need to eat - they are fueled by blind-faith hatred.
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axegrinder Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:58:36am |
re: #621 realwest
"As an example, what has Dan Rather been doing for the last four years other than unsuccessfully suing CBS?". YES.
And again, THANK YOU CHARLES!
Did anybody ever ask Charles if he was actually in his pajamas when he posted the famous 'throbbing letter?' Inquiring minds want to know.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:58:56am |
re: #626 wahabicorridor
I've forgotten exactly where she wrote it - and certainly don't remember the words verbatim, but Hannah Arandt made a good point about excluding people from the umbrella of law - as was done to the Jews, Roma, etc. They don't just lose their rights, they lose their humanity in a way.
This is similar to why Muslims in Eurpoe and immigrants in the States should all be subject to the same law. It sounds too simple to need stating, but community law projects in Europe and various immigration legality responses have the effect of removing our obligation to treat each others as humans.
Amnesty to illegal aliens and multi-culturalism do not help minority groups--it de-legitemizes them, putting an asterisk not only on their accomplishments, but on their status as members of society.
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Mad Al-Jaffee Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:59:43am |
Morning everyone. I had a gig in downtown Baltimore last night, an outdoor concert gig. Saw lots of people in strange costumes on the way there and in the audience. This explains why they were there:
[Link: baltimore.bizjournals.com...]
I saw furries in real life for the first time. The cute girls dressed in anime costumes more than made up for that.
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:01:36am |
re: #619 legalpad
I have no problem at all figuring out where Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden and their ideological counterparts Billy Boy Ayers and Bernadine Dhorn fit it. None at all. But I don't believe Cronkite as actively trying to assist the commies (a la Walter Duranty or Jane Fonda).
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:04:06am |
re: #625 haakondahl
re: #626 wahabicorridor
Driving by (damn this place is addictive!)-- haak, you're kicking butt today and I will come back and upding you.
In brief-- the genius of the Declaration and why it changed history is because it asserted that humans had 'unalienable rights'-- i.e., they had those rights regardless of whether or not a government chose to recognise or respect those rights.
Indeed, they asserted that it was a proof of an unlawful government and a mandate for rebellion when a government infringed upon those 'unalienable rights'.
Haak, your property analogy was even more apposite than you realised, because the source for the Declaration to claim 'life liberty and pursuit of happiness' as those rights was John Locke-- who originally had it that life, liberty and property were the inalienable rights.
wahabi-- this is what Arendt was talking about. Defining classes of persons so that they fall outside the umbrella of law covering all other humans doesn't merely deprive them of rights but is an essential step in the process of declaring that class 'not-human'. That kind of depersonalisation and dehumanisation is an essential step in the process of genocide.
(haak, I just saw that you make that same point to wahabi and make it better in your 638)
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MandyManners Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:05:53am |
Did someone say "human rights"?Your text to link...
Do not fall into the leftist trap of believing that "human rights" are in any way related to personal liberty. They are the antithesis of personal liberty.
In this country we have personal liberty, which is protected by civil rights that are enforced by equal protection under the law. We may fall short of equal protection sometimes, but that is the ideal--and that ideal, and the striving to live up to it, is what makes us, and keeps us, the most free society in the world.
"Human rights" are a vague term which is used mostly by the UN--which should give you a tip right there as to their value. People talk about the lack of "human rights" in this society or that--but what it comes down to is that these societies which "lack human rights" are societies where personal liberty is not respected, where there are no civil rights, and certainly no equal protection under law, to safeguard it.
SNIP
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:05:55am |
re: #640 Mad Al-Jaffee
Morning everyone. I had a gig in downtown Baltimore last night, an outdoor concert gig. Saw lots of people in strange costumes on the way there and in the audience. This explains why they were there:
[Link: baltimore.bizjournals.com...]
I saw furries in real life for the first time. The cute girls dressed in anime costumes more than made up for that.
the furries just had a convention in Philly, I think? And some baseball reporter at the same hotel tweeted about it...funny stuff.
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:06:19am |
re: #625 haakondahl
Well the "scraps of paper" don't grant those rights, they simply spell them out in what was - at their time- the Founding Fathers' view of Civil Rights. It has ALWAYS been the American people and especially the American Soldier who has guaranteed those rights.
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Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:06:41am |
U.S Soldier POW in Afghanistan (full video)
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MandyManners Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:07:25am |
Wait, there's more. Your text to link...
Au contraire: "human rights" themselves are, and have always been, an out and out fraud. There is individual liberty, or there is not. Where there is individual liberty, it is protected by governments which respect civil rights--in other words, where the rule of law trumps the rule of dictator, party line, or other whim or ideology.
Talk of "human rights" applies to two things: regimes which do not grant or protect the civil rights of their subjects, who therefore have no individual liberty, or--when applied to the West--they are a grievance-mongering stick used to beat nations which do not grant special privileges to grievance-mongering groups.
SNIP
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:07:28am |
re: #556 Iron Fist
Walter Cronkite did more to help the North Vietnamese win the Vietnam War than the Viet Kong did (a lot more). He almost single-handdedly turned Tet from a crushing defeat into a political victory. This has changed the pattern of warfare and almost totally defines the assymetric warfare that we are fighting against in the war on Jihadi terror.
He was a very influential man, and he used his influence for evil purposes. Why should we not, therefore, consider him an evil man?
Because he was a broken man, and it was an epic moment of failure, not of success. I will not often speak well of Cronkite, and so I have jsut kept my peace. But I do not think that, particularly during Vietnam, his actions were motivated by a desire to harm the country, and that in his mistaken analysis (to say nothing of his miserably mistaken assessment of the situation at Tet), the harm being done to the country was worse through continuing the war than through slinking away. Of course, we castigate him for being so God-Damned wrong, and it is a shame that his influence allowed this wrongness to do so much damage.
A man who does evil but thinks he does good is not evil--he is a fool.
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:08:13am |
re: #630 callahan23
Hey ((( callahan23))) it shook me to the bone to write it.
But I'm doing ok, if you don't count in the depression, anxiety and fear!
I do hope you are doing ok and can get a little more out of your life than your (necessary) work my friend.
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legalpad Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:08:55am |
re: #641 realwest
I have no problem at all figuring out where Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden and their ideological counterparts Billy Boy Ayers and Bernadine Dhorn fit it. None at all. But I don't believe Cronkite as actively trying to assist the commies (a la Walter Duranty or Jane Fonda).
Well, you know, I agree with that. I don't think he thought in those terms. But to some extent, everyone thinks that what they are doing is right. The real question is, why are they silent about the glaring evil of the communists? I don't have an answer to this as far as Mr. Cronkite is concerned, and many others for that matter. The editing appears systematic. It appears to have a pattern. It seems to paint a certain picture, which influences the decisions of policy-makers. I don't think Mr. Cronkite was unaware of this.
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:09:04am |
re: #650 realwest
Hey ((( callahan23))) it shook me to the bone to write it.
But I'm doing ok, if you don't count in the depression, anxiety and fear!
I do hope you are doing ok and can get a little more out of your life than your (necessary) work my friend.
Good Morning Realwest!
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:09:31am |
re: #639 taxfreekiller
Pol Pot in Cambodia did not accept "inalienable human rights", all that much.
No he did not. Now who you gonna believe--Pol Pot or your own lyin' eyes?
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wahabicorridor Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:09:42am |
re: #643 iceweasel
Defining classes of persons so that they fall outside the umbrella of law covering all other humans doesn't merely deprive them of rights but is an essential step in the process of declaring that class 'not-human'. That kind of depersonalisation and dehumanisation is an essential step in the process of genocide.
Yeah, I know. I'm trying to find the quote now - god knows I have no desire to comb thru her books upstairs.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:12:56am |
re: #655 wahabicorridor
Yeah, I know. I'm trying to find the quote now - god knows I have no desire to comb thru her books upstairs.
Just guessing, dude--it's prolly in Origins of Totalitarianism. I don't even remember that quote, just read enough Arendt in the past to have an idea what she would mean.
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Desert Dog Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:14:10am |
Good morning fellow lizards, I am whipping up a killer batch of pancakes, some eggs, bacon, hash browns and fresh bagels for my family unit. I hope this Sunday finds all of you well.
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SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:15:11am |
re: #650 realwest
Hey ((( callahan23))) it shook me to the bone to write it.
But I'm doing ok, if you don't count in the depression, anxiety and fear!
I do hope you are doing ok and can get a little more out of your life than your (necessary) work my friend.
And good morning to you, sir !
My Comcrap is acting up again, I have to keep refreshing.
Hope you're feeling well today.
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callahan23 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:15:16am |
re: #650 realwest
Hey ((( callahan23))) it shook me to the bone to write it.
But I'm doing ok, if you don't count in the depression, anxiety and fear!
I do hope you are doing ok and can get a little more out of your life than your (necessary) work my friend.
((( realwest ))) I wish you all the best, good spirits and let us Lizards try to lift those (if only a bit).
Lizardia and some few real-life social contacts are those things that stand out for me above the 'usual' (work 'n such).
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albusteve Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:15:21am |
re: #648 MandyManners
probably the most brilliant piece I've ever read here at LGF...no doubt peeled right off the top of his head
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wahabicorridor Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:15:44am |
re: #656 iceweasel
Origins is the most incoherent thing she ever wrote.
(My guess is that it's in The Human Condition - but I'm NOT going hunting for it)
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:16:18am |
re: #658 Desert Dog
Good morning fellow lizards, I am whipping up a killer batch of pancakes, some eggs, bacon, hash browns and fresh bagels for my family unit. I hope this Sunday finds all of you well.
It does..Boy sounds yummy at your house..make extra!
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wahabicorridor Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:16:53am |
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Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:18:00am |
re: #647 Killgore Trout
I think I can hear kids playing in the background.
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SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:18:46am |
re: #658 Desert Dog
Good morning fellow lizards, I am whipping up a killer batch of pancakes, some eggs, bacon, hash browns and fresh bagels for my family unit. I hope this Sunday finds all of you well.
That's cruel to those of us living on Pop Tarts and TV dinners.
I can smell it.
Sounds delicious.
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:18:49am |
re: #631 itellu3times
Please don't be ambivalent about how much Tort lawyers add to the cost of medical insurance. One breif example: My internist (and good friend) of over 34 years had to carry medical malpractice insurance, even though he'd never been sued. So he carried the minimum amount he could get away with and the premium therefore was in excess of $75,000 a year.
And the costs of all the unecessary tests that are done are almost incalulable but they, too, get passed onto the consumer. And bad doctors DO get driven out - by other doctors, not by Tort Lawyers.
And listen my friend, as far as I know there are currently only TWO forms of US Government Healthcare: the VA and Medicare. And both are absolutely HORRENDUS. I have absolutely no faith at all in any government run health care program and indeed cannot find ANY country were government run health care is better than the quality or (so far) availability of healthcare in the US.
See, e.g., Canada and Great Britain.
But what troubles me the most about Obama and the Leftists is their RUSH to get a bill passed. Someone out here on the DT - maybe wahabicorridor - posted a provision of the house bill that has already passed, whereby any lawyer can file suit against a doctor, hosptial whatever,on behalf of the GOVERNMENT without the explicit approval of the government ahead of time.
No, Obama care isn't being held up by folks who don't want to see socialized medicine (though there are plenty of us who would kill it on those grounds alone) it's being held up because, for maybe the FIRST time in their political lives, the LEFTIST PARTY SENATORS actually want to, you know, READ THE DAMN BILL.
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Desert Dog Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:18:55am |
re: #665 wahabicorridor
HASH BROWNS!!
I'll be right there (with onions, please)
of course, fresh, never frozen too...
I worked as a prep cook while in college, I can still hold the spatula
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callahan23 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:19:53am |
re: #666 buzzsawmonkey
Hi Buzz, your comment number is just so not you.
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:20:03am |
re: #653 HoosierHoops
Good morning Hoops - hope you're doing well today!
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:20:14am |
re: #544 Iron Fist
I'm not sure I agree with you. If there is no Maker, where do said rights come from? With no Creator, pretty much all Natural Law-based political theory can be scrapped (as it all rests on Natural Laws that were set up by a Creator). You still have the Social Contract theory that came out of it, but that really has all rights coming out of the Contract when it is defined. Before that, we have all rights, and we surrender them (some of them) when we form the Contract. In a Hobbsian State of Nature we have all the rights we can take and keep ("you keep what you kill"), but those are enforced by the individual.
The Rights of man are CHMOD 444 in the root directory. Any attempts to access this file in any mode other than read-only will result in the loss of your account.
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austin_blue Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:20:27am |
Contador cracked the field on the final climb today. Lance finished 1:35 back.
Otherwise, Good Morning Lizards!
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Desert Dog Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:21:17am |
re: #669 realwest
Well, I am sure that once our medical fates are in the hands of benevolent bureaucrats, out medical insurance woes will be a thing of the past.
/
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:21:49am |
re: #672 realwest
Good morning Hoops - hope you're doing well today!
Doing great my friend..Watching the British Open..
How are you this fine day?
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:22:15am |
If any of y'all have sent a comment my way or made a comment about one of my comments, I promise to try to get to it later.
But first, I want to publish the LGF List. As always, folks, kindly give me any corrections, additions or deletions by e-mail, not out here.
I'm gonna wait a bit to see if folks read this and maybe I can get The List posted without interruption this time.
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SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:23:00am |
re: #674 buzzsawmonkey
The problem with tort lawyers is their reaching for pie in the sky judgments.
I think what he's saying is you need to pecan choose your battles.
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MandyManners Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:23:37am |
re: #674 buzzsawmonkey
The problem with tort lawyers is their reaching for pie in the sky judgments.
Their influence is not a trifle.
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J.S. Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:23:53am |
As someone who grew up in the United States (and, yes, I'm an American citizen), I recall finding it utterly shocking to read a chapter (from a text explaining Canadian law), about "Our conditional rights". This was nothing whatsoever to do with "inalienable rights" -- O No! -- this was all about how "rights" "granted" (yes, there's that term again "granted" by the largess of royalty -- meaning people) can just as easily, and suddenly, be "not granted" or taken away...and the entire chapter was to get Canadians to accept this "fact." (heaven forfend if they ever thought like Americans!) (I've have, of late, noticed, however, that there are now American citizens running about and writing things which -- imho -- don't sound at all "American." I could do some quoting from that Majd writer as an example...certain notions seem to be creeping into the American body politic...)
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:25:59am |
OK, y'all, here is The List for Today. Again, PLEASE GIVE ME ANY CORRECTIONS, ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS BY E-MAIL ONLY - my nic is in blue:
Lizard Prayer List 7/19/09
Prayers for thanks, praise, comfort, strength, healing, and hope
Seeking Updates
Many thanks to Ben Z and Cap'n Doc for starting this.
Part 1 of 3:
Community issues:
Blessing and protection over all of us during these times.
Our government
Our troops
Israel
Georgia/Ossetia
Gilad Schalit, for his release.
The contractors still held hostage
Brian at Snapped Shot: for justice
The Iranian “dissidents”
Thanksgivings
mikeymom: sister recovering from a stroke; D-i-L’s stepdad – throat cancer; and
son of a good friend-50 yrs old- having 1/3 of face removed and reconstructed next week-cancer.
Uncle Rancher: 17-year-old nephew had treatment for melanoma
Afrocity Brown: outpatient surgery went very well
bbuddha: mother-in-law doing much better
HoosierHoops: son Jordan deployed to Japan instead of Afghanistan & grandchild on the way
Vxbush: health issues diagnosed
Wolfie: nephew (USAR-spec ops) got home from Iraq a couple of months ago safe and sound, and he and his wife are expecting their second child.
eschew_obfuscation: family’s health and happiness
Empire1: out of the hospital after suffering a stroke, practically fully recovered
Loppyd: future plans
Irish Rose – Son doing ok and out of danger from illness; automobile problems resolved.
MNSnowlizard - No need for further heart surgery, prayers for her and her family’s good health
Fluffy Bunny – tumor turned out to be benign!
RememberSekhmet – got a job!
Floral Giraffe - Mother just had successful pacemaker inplanted.
Part 2 of 3:
Health issues:
Mikeymom: husband’s cousin's hubby just diagnosed w/lung and brain cancer
loppyd: Brother’s knee injury and future m-i-l’s broken hip.
vagabond trader: friend’s mother fighting cancer
littleoldlady: talloldman
Pietr: Aunt Doris in hospital with poor prognosis; b-i-l Roscoe undergoing Chemotherapy
J.D.: diagnosed friend's son as having a Glioma
Doppelganglander: Passing of sister, best friend Cindy diagnosed with MS
NY Nana: son-in-law’s mum, recovering from amputation
(cont'd)
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:26:02am |
OT: some very freaky shit at Free Republic today (yes, I know, all that means is it's a day ending in 'y' )
We the People of America choose to exercise our right to throw off and alter the abusive government by peacefully recalling and removing from office the President of the United States, the Vice President of the United States and all U.S. Senators and U.S. Representatives effective immediately.
An interim provisional Chief Executive and congressional representatives will be established as follows:
The Secretary of State shall immediately assume the office of interim Chief Executive. The Chief Executive shall appoint and the interim Senate shall confirm an interim Vice President.
An immediate election shall be held within each state legislature to appoint two interim senators to represent each sovereign state.
A special election shall be held by all states within 30 days to elect interim members of the House of Representatives.
Elections for regular government offices shall be conducted in November, 2010 as previously scheduled, except that elections will be held for all elective offices, including President, Vice President and all U.S. Representatives. U.S. Senators will be elected per class schedule by the various state legislatures.
We alter the government to provide new Guards for our future security as follows:
They're 'announcing' the repeal of the 16th and 17th amendments, Roe v Wade, the disbanding of the IRS, the repeal of Social Security, returning national parks to the individual states, and I don't know what else.
Also this:
No revenues accruing to the federal government shall be disbursed to any state, city or local government for any reason whatsoever. Or used to subsidize or benefit any government or private entity, organization or person, other than those explicitly authorized and enumerated in the constitution.
I'm not linking FR, but this thread is on memeorandum and will no doubt be the source of much glee and mockery. Heads up.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:26:11am |
re: #577 buzzsawmonkey
I don't, in any major sense, disagree with you--and even if I did, as long as we agreed, as we seem to, on the distinction between liberty protected by civil rights, and "human rights" as promulgated these days, I wouldn't care.
The rights proclaimed by the Founders and protected by the Constitution were/are for everyone, believer or agnostic, and I wouldn't have that any other way. It merely chaps my ass when people who are vocal in their non-belief cite to the Declaration about "inalienable rights" while a the same time conveniently eliding the Source of those rights as declared by the very people who first propounded them.
Well then, would it chap your ass more or less if I were faithful but believed in some sort of Monkey-God?
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FrogMarch Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:26:17am |
Lileks nails the administration's m.o.
Swine Flu. Should we panic? "I would tell members of my family -- and I have -- I wouldn't go anywhere in confined places now," Biden said, adding, "When one person sneezes, it goes all the way through the aircraft." This statement was so true it was retracted by the end of the day. When the experts -- i.e., cable-news reporters on the medical beat -- start talking about Pig-Pandemic bringing down human civilization, everyone's first reaction is to stay away from planes and trains. But a Leader is supposed to say something calming, like "if you're taking a flight full of feverish travelers back from Cancun, don't lick the tray tables."
The Economy. Also in early July, Biden said "We misread how bad the economy was." This one is a bit different to explain away, since the administration billed itself as having super-genius comprehension of the problem and the necessary solutions. Now, many suspect, President Obama finds himself staring at a portrait of FDR, murmuring "Help me, Obi-Wan. You're my only hope."
What Biden meant to say, in his puckish way, that they misunderstood what an economy is, and how it works. Piling up a mountain of proposed taxes, mandates, regulations, do-nothing programs and pork unseen in such dimensions since Pink Floyd floated a dirigible pig over an outdoor concert might, in fact, prevent recovery.
So do not criticize him; applaud his palaver, and hope for more. Biden's "gaffes" are anything but -- they're simply what the administration is really thinking. Truer words have never been babbled.
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Flyers1974 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:26:19am |
re: #638 haakondahl
This is similar to why Muslims in Eurpoe and immigrants in the States should all be subject to the same law. It sounds too simple to need stating, but community law projects in Europe and various immigration legality responses have the effect of removing our obligation to treat each others as humans.
Amnesty to illegal aliens and multi-culturalism do not help minority groups--it de-legitemizes them, putting an asterisk not only on their accomplishments, but on their status as members of society.
Multi-culturalism is one of those bumpersticker slogans that seems to me to have no meaning. Mumbo-jumbo in my opinion. I'd take issue with your idea that amnesty delegitimizes anyone, however. Immigration is not an accomplishment. Unless you've escaped from somewhere and sought asylum, its a paper-pushing process. In fact, a portion of immigration to the US is determined by a "lottery" system - luck and nothing but luck. I don't think anyone would think less of immigrants should there be an amnesty, unless they were already inclined to feel that way. On kind of a similiar note, I've seen the common argument that amnesty is unfair to other potential immigrants who have applied for green cards. I say there is no "unfair" in this regard. The US can decide at any moment to throw every immigration petition in the trash, or on the other hand, to have open borders for anyone in the world, if the law is changed to allow such.
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:26:51am |
CapeCoddah: boss John R
Iron Fist: diabetes not improving
yma o hyd: glaucoma; may need surgery; arthritis
ArmyWife: FIL just diagnosed with leukemia; good friend’s daughter dealing with issues.
UberInfidel67 and other Lizards who are trying to quit smoking
Chicago Blonde: friend battling cancer
Macker: health issues and treatment
Hoppes: has sick children, lost her MIL, and is very stressed
UberInfidel67: brother’s health after polyps removal
Aussiemagpie: children with health issues
Walter Cronanty: son with recurrence of leukemia & recovering from bone marrow transplant.
logboy: recovery from injuries received in combat in Iraq
gettinby: sister diagnosed with Sjogren’s Syndrome
Pingjockey – cancer down by voice box.
tfc3rid: gf's 89 year old grandmother (suffered a large stroke and is in rehab) and her uncle who is suffering from throat cancer; and continued prayers for dad who has MS
twincitiesgirl: husband fighting cancer
Cato the elder: health issues
Josephine: daughter diagnosed with rare, chronic illness
jamsler: sister, just diagnosed with thyroid cancer; father, getting biopsy of a possible malignancy in his throat.
CoCo: mother paralyzed (due to strokes) and is now having new health problems
gop_patriot: friend’s 8-year-old son starting chemo
Pingjockey: friend Bob with a carcinoma, recovering from surgery
jorline: scleritis (eye disease), rheumatoid arthritis; father who has colon cancer
realwest: metastasizing prostate cancer; mom Type II diabetes
AKAK: Parkinson’s diagnosis confirmed
eaglewingz08: intestinal cancer; has bad case of Grave’s disease, thyroid disorder
Noamsayin: niece and dad battling cancer
Truck Monkey: Brady (11-year-old with brain cancer who is on the football team he coaches)
Shaky Louie: chronic pancriatitis, and an (as yet) undiagnosed liver problem.
newsjunkie_ky: Step-Dad
Sarah: dad (cancer);
Zonie: cancer and renal failure
kcladderman: father’s throat cancer; just finisher second round of radiation
Clutch: 82-year-old mom’s recovery from eye surgery
BBev: wife’s illness and great pain, having gone from bad to worse
Kenneth: beloved daughter "M" serious chronic illness.
Cartman: liver and other health problems
Irene NYC: mom’s cancer
/cont’d
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:27:06am |
Lizard Prayer List, cont’d:
Family, friend, and life situations:
Fat Bastard Vegetarian – Mother’s cancer has returned
Kawfytawk: the Springle family, who lost their father in Iraq.
Dustyvet: sudden loss of sister
loppyd: friend’s personal problems
Kawfytawk: caring for father
Teacake: emotional healing
BaseballMom57: husband’s passing; prayers for especially for their children.
ChildofMary: passing of husband, ElderZionist
US Beast: passing of mother
Vxbush: Lesion on Liver near vein, MRI scheduled; and one Lizard friend dealing with big issues
Army Green since '92: post has lost three soldiers in Afghanistan;
yma o hyd: death of dear friend Annie; ease the grief of friend who lost her husband of 59 years
Taqiyyotomist: strength in difficult times
FBV: that the unknowns find fulfillment
Vxbush: daughter’s financial issues
Yochanan: son in IDF
Bcgirl: sponsored child, Alia in Egypt
Wyatt Earp: Uncle Joe; prostate cancer returned
West Texas: brother’s decision
Victor_yugo: job
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey: mom home from the hospital but may be regressing
A Kiwi Infidel: Natasha and her husband mourning the loss of the younger child.
MandyManners: Mother seriously ill and in hospital.
Cast Iron Magnolia: nephew, David, who's a Marine serving in Iraq
HHC 2-2 SCR: for those we lost and their family and friends and for thanks for those that are finally back and one for the safety of those still waiting to return.
lightsout: to make a wise decision
BeerDrinking VictoryMonkey: strength to overcome a personal issue, and for wisdom in discerning another one
Flynmudd: son deployed to Middle East
x-wing: son diagnosed with Asperger’s (mild autism)
Mars Needs Neocons: job
jcm: new 7th month foster daughter (previous foster daughter went to live with her grandma)
Josephine: painful loss
Jammiewearingfool: sister’s passing
David Simon: mom (Alzheimer's)
Intrepid: Mom has Alzheimer's and Intrepid is caretaker
conservgirl: atheist SPM, that he finds the Lord
Coz: Brother in law and wife in horrible motorcycle accident; wife passed away.
Pvt Bin Jammin – BIL’s son has Liver Cancer
soxfan4life – Uncle had heart attack, undergoing by-pass surgery
Sharmuta - Grandfather in hospital – blood poisoning
3 wood – Dana, friend of 3 wood and family, passed of cancer and is now in the arms of the Lord. Please pray for her 2 small children and husband.
ChristheProfessor – lost his brother to cancer recently.
Mamacares – health issues for a family member
Conservatisimnow – kidney stones and other related matters.
Bbhudda – Mother-in Law passed away this past week.
Lizards with family issues
Irish Rose: Lost job
Noraono: colleagues laid off in building industry
antiislamist: in need of prayers
lone_wolf_in_illinois: friends and family in Israel
Dianna: - mother- best possible outcome is hoped for.
GotC: strength for kids and her dealing with EH.
Danger close: general
zulubaby, Carl in Jerusalem, Mr Pol, Golden Jerusalem, basically all the minion in eretz Yisrael
noam sayin': comfort for a lost brother
Buckeye Abroad: in the belly of the beast of Eurabia
nonic: general
yank in EU: general
MdiM: general
In Memoriam
Dublin(CA)Dude
USMC 1968
ElderZion
Obi Wan
All our Troops who have died protecting our Freedom and their families.
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Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:29:08am |
re: #685 iceweasel
That's becoming pretty popular in some circles these days.We'll see how far they're willing to take this shit but it's not helpful and it really pisses me off.
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wahabicorridor Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:29:50am |
re: #669 realwest
wasn't me that posted that portion of the bill - but I remember seeing it - btw - the health care discussion wasn't on the dead thread - it was on the ANSA pic thread - sorta got hijacked I think
But within the last few days, I posted this little bit - a sneaky euthanasia provisions for senior citizens.
One troubling provision of the House bill compels seniors to submit to a counseling session every five years (and more often if they become sick or go into a nursing home) about alternatives for end-of-life care (House bill, p. 425-430). The sessions cover highly sensitive matters such as whether to receive antibiotics and "the use of artificially administered nutrition and hydration."
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Joo-LiZ Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:30:09am |
What's Obama's deal?? He's making more, far more specific demands on the Israeli's, and Bibi has had to firmly slap his hand because of it.
Jerusalem is the "unified capital of Israel and the capital of the Jewish people, and sovereignty over it is indisputable," Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said Sunday, responding to an American demand to put an end to a housing project to be built in east Jerusalem."Hundreds of apartments in the west of the city were purchased by Arabs and we didn't get involved. There is no prohibition against Arab residents buying apartments in the west of the city and there is no prohibition barring the city's Jewish residents from buying or building in the east of the city," Netanyahu added at the weekly cabinet meeting. "That is the policy of an open city that is not divided."
"We cannot accept the notion that Jews will not have the right to buy apartments specifically in Jerusalem. I can only imagine what would happen if they were forbidden from purchasing apartments in New York or London; there would be an international outcry. This has always been Israel's policy and this is the policy of the current government," the prime minister added.
RTWT... Obama went as far as summoning Israel's ambassador in Washington to deliver the message about one specific building project -- which Abbas had complained about earlier.
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Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:30:29am |
re: #667 Killgore Trout
At about 25:00 they work on converting him.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:31:51am |
re: #692 Killgore Trout
That's becoming pretty popular in some circles these days.We'll see how far they're willing to take this shit but it's not helpful and it really pisses me off.
Honestly? What struck me most is that they want the Sec of State to assume interim control.
Do they even realise who the SoS is?
Like I said, it's already on memeorandum and I can guarantee that much attention, mockery and hilarity will ensue.
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itellu3times Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:32:21am |
Hey no ABC Stephanopoulos this mornng ... just golf ... in Los Angeles, at least. Wassup with that?
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:33:19am |
re: #697 itellu3times
Hey no ABC Stephanopoulos this mornng ... just golf ... in Los Angeles, at least. Wassup with that?
yup..The British open is on ABC...
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:33:29am |
re: #608 SasquatchOnSteroids
Wow, you assumed an awful lot right there. I never said anything of the sort, but thanks for playing.
Sorry if I conflated your question with identical questions from other people. What did you mean by the question, then?
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wahabicorridor Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:34:05am |
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:35:44am |
re: #685 iceweasel
re: #686 haakondahl
re: #687 FrogMarch
re: #688 Flyers1974
I'd like to thank y'all for heeding my admonition in #679 about giving it some time so folks wouldn't post and interrupt the posting of The List. There are SOME of us who appreciate the publication of The List because it helps others to pray for or send best wishes for to others who are in need of comfort or congratulation.
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albusteve Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:36:28am |
re: #692 Killgore Trout
That's becoming pretty popular in some circles these days.We'll see how far they're willing to take this shit but it's not helpful and it really pisses me off.
free speech...ain't it grand
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SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:36:30am |
re: #700 haakondahl
Sorry if I conflated your question with identical questions from other people. What did you mean by the question, then?
I actually agree with this :
I say that the rights are manifest in Man, unalterable, inalienable, irrevocable, and that this is just the way it is.
Who said it ? You did.
I was just seeing what answer ice would have, that's all.
Nothing more, nothing less.
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wahabicorridor Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:36:55am |
re: #694 Joo-LiZ
It gave me enormous pleasure to wake up this morning and read that one of my faves, Michael Oren, told State to go piss up a rope.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:37:44am |
re: #702 realwest
re: #686 haakondahl
re: #687 FrogMarch
re: #688 Flyers1974
I'd like to thank y'all for heeding my admonition in #679 about giving it some time so folks wouldn't post and interrupt the posting of The List. There are SOME of us who appreciate the publication of The List because it helps others to pray for or send best wishes for to others who are in need of comfort or congratulation.
Sorry, RW, but I hadn't seen your 679 when I posted.
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Walter L. Newton Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:37:54am |
re: #692 Killgore Trout
That's becoming pretty popular in some circles these days.We'll see how far they're willing to take this shit but it's not helpful and it really pisses me off.
Why would you care what conservatives are up too?
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Desert Dog Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:38:57am |
re: #696 iceweasel
Honestly? What struck me most is that they want the Sec of State to assume interim control.
Do they even realise who the SoS is?
Like I said, it's already on memeorandum and I can guarantee that much attention, mockery and hilarity will ensue.
You two crack me up. You are both going into an orgasm about this crap. Do you really think this stuff has any chance of ever coming to be? The vast majority of the Republicans think this stuff is nonsense and would never allow it. PLEASE.
However, there is one political party currently active that is very interested is altering the fabric of our society and changing everything around. It's the party that you two vote for most of the time (IF you vote). I would check over at DU and KOS and see what changes are coming. What you are reading now, the nutters on the right, has no chance. The stuff over at the lefty looney blogs is fast becoming Obama's policy
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FrogMarch Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:40:07am |
re: #702 realwest
re: #686 haakondahl
re: #687 FrogMarch
re: #688 Flyers1974
I'd like to thank y'all for heeding my admonition in #679 about giving it some time so folks wouldn't post and interrupt the posting of The List. There are SOME of us who appreciate the publication of The List because it helps others to pray for or send best wishes for to others who are in need of comfort or congratulation.
Sorry. I didn't see 679.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:40:22am |
re: #708 Desert Dog
DU is the Free Republic of the left. I reserve the right to mock both.
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Desert Dog Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:41:13am |
re: #710 iceweasel
DU is the Free Republic of the left. I reserve the right to mock both.
Fair enough :-)
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:41:23am |
re: #628 realwest
SO, why did it take nearly 1800 years after Christ - or after the supposed birth of Christ if you want to go on being either atheistic or agnostic - for mankind to put those rights on paper? Why did they feel the absolute NEED to put them on paper?
The answer is because they truly didn't exist until WE recognized them and made them a reality - an admittedly imperfect reality at the time, but also THE reality at the time?
So it is your position the Rights of Man (whatever those are) are granted by man? What if a bare majority of the world declares that the other slightly-less-than-half no longer have any rights?
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Flyers1974 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:41:26am |
re: #644 MandyManners
Did someone say "human rights"?Your text to link...
Do not fall into the leftist trap of believing that "human rights" are in any way related to personal liberty. They are the antithesis of personal liberty.In this country we have personal liberty, which is protected by civil rights that are enforced by equal protection under the law. We may fall short of equal protection sometimes, but that is the ideal--and that ideal, and the striving to live up to it, is what makes us, and keeps us, the most free society in the world.
"Human rights" are a vague term which is used mostly by the UN--which should give you a tip right there as to their value. People talk about the lack of "human rights" in this society or that--but what it comes down to is that these societies which "lack human rights" are societies where personal liberty is not respected, where there are no civil rights, and certainly no equal protection under law, to safeguard it.
SNIP
I agree that societies which lack human rights also lack respect for personal liberty. But how are they antithesis and how is saying the two are related a leftist trap (unless by leftist you mean only communists?)
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Bloodnok Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:42:19am |
re: #708 Desert Dog
You two crack me up. You are both going into an orgasm about this crap. Do you really think this stuff has any chance of ever coming to be? The vast majority of the Republicans think this stuff is nonsense and would never allow it. PLEASE.
However, there is one political party currently active that is very interested is altering the fabric of our society and changing everything around. It's the party that you two vote for most of the time (IF you vote). I would check over at DU and KOS and see what changes are coming. What you are reading now, the nutters on the right, has no chance. The stuff over at the lefty looney blogs is fast becoming Obama's policy
Oh, the time honored "X? I'm more worried about Y" deflection.
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:42:45am |
re: #711 Lincolntf
Watson tied for the lead again. Three way.
How the hell does that old dude play such a beautiful game?
God I love that man...What a stud...I hope he wins today..
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MandyManners Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:44:04am |
re: #715 Flyers1974
I agree that societies which lack human rights also lack respect for personal liberty. But how are they antithesis and how is saying the two are related a leftist trap (unless by leftist you mean only communists?)
Don't ask me! I merely posted the links!
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Flyers1974 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:44:10am |
re: #702 realwest
re: #686 haakondahl
re: #687 FrogMarch
re: #688 Flyers1974
I'd like to thank y'all for heeding my admonition in #679 about giving it some time so folks wouldn't post and interrupt the posting of The List. There are SOME of us who appreciate the publication of The List because it helps others to pray for or send best wishes for to others who are in need of comfort or congratulation.
My sincere apologies - didn't notice your request until after I pushed send.
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:44:46am |
re: #716 taxfreekiller
Realwest
went down yesterday and back to Houston area to visit my great uncle who was a WWII Air Force , who worked with the under ground in Poland to capture Nazi planes and find out weaknesses in the planes ect.
He had a roll over 6 times wreck, has broken bones, three cracked vertebrae etc. is wearing the "halo" deal, but is now after 6 weeks he is up and around doing re-hab 92 years old,,, he too has no quit in him,keep your eyes on the tree line ahead
Wow TFK...There are hero's everywhere...Be well
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Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:46:31am |
re: #696 iceweasel
I haven't seen that specific plan before but all these fantasies about impeachment, treason trials, armed revolution and secession are dangerous and unhelpful with the national crisis we're dealing with. It's ban enough that the grass roots idiots are into this stuff but I also worry that politicians and govenors are going to push this stuff too far.
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Pianobuff Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:47:47am |
re: #718 HoosierHoops
How the hell does that old dude play such a beautiful game?
God I love that man...What a stud...I hope he wins today..
Me too. I was explaining this to my wife who doesn't follow golf and trying to come up with an analogy that she would understand. Came up empty-handed. What a great thing for sports (and geezers, as he refers to himself) if he wins.
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SixDegrees Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:48:17am |
re: #696 iceweasel
Honestly? What struck me most is that they want the Sec of State to assume interim control.
Do they even realise who the SoS is?
Like I said, it's already on memeorandum and I can guarantee that much attention, mockery and hilarity will ensue.
Any word on how soon they'll be putting da darkies back in their place?
/
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:50:13am |
re: #644 MandyManners
Did someone say "human rights"?Your text to link...
Do not fall into the leftist trap of believing that "human rights" are in any way related to personal liberty. They are the antithesis of personal liberty.In this country we have personal liberty, which is protected by civil rights that are enforced by equal protection under the law. We may fall short of equal protection sometimes, but that is the ideal--and that ideal, and the striving to live up to it, is what makes us, and keeps us, the most free society in the world.
"Human rights" are a vague term which is used mostly by the UN--which should give you a tip right there as to their value. People talk about the lack of "human rights" in this society or that--but what it comes down to is that these societies which "lack human rights" are societies where personal liberty is not respected, where there are no civil rights, and certainly no equal protection under law, to safeguard it.
SNIP
I agree with you one hundred percent, but only on "Human Rights", as opposed to Human Rights. It's somewhat akin to "Democracy" which has very little to do with Democracy, and is usually antithetical.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:50:21am |
re: #722 Killgore Trout
I haven't seen that specific plan before but all these fantasies about impeachment, treason trials, armed revolution and secession are dangerous and unhelpful with the national crisis we're dealing with. It's ban enough that the grass roots idiots are into this stuff but I also worry that politicians and govenors are going to push this stuff too far.
Look at how many Congresspeople have signed onto the crazy nirth certifikat legislation. 10 so far now, I think.
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:51:35am |
re: #714 haakondahl
Same question asked by William F. Buckley of Gore Vidal (before the fisticuffs) at the 1968 Democratic Convention)*:
"If 51% of the voters in an election decide the US should adopt communism, is it your position that the other 49% are out of luck, that they've lost all of their rights due to the majority vote". Vidal's answer, boiled down from the "finerary" in which it was placed, was "Yes". Demcracy wins." Buckley: "NO, it doesn't - Democracy cannot take away from the minority that which the Supreme Being gave to them and for which generations of men have given their blood, their families and their hopes to secure."
I'll take Mr. Buckley's (RIP) side on this one.
*obviously not verbatim, but as good as my memory will allow it to be, since I saw and heard all three "debates" between them.
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Pianobuff Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:51:51am |
re: #726 iceweasel
Look at how many Congresspeople have signed onto the crazy nirth certifikat legislation. 10 so far now, I think.
You have a link for that? Thanks.
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MandyManners Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:53:01am |
re: #725 haakondahl
I agree with you one hundred percent, but only on "Human Rights", as opposed to Human Rights. It's somewhat akin to "Democracy" which has very little to do with Democracy, and is usually antithetical.
It's by buzzsawmonkey. I just posted the links.
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Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:53:04am |
BNP and thier anti-Islamization activities...
bnp wives
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albusteve Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:53:25am |
re: #722 Killgore Trout
I haven't seen that specific plan before but all these fantasies about impeachment, treason trials, armed revolution and secession are dangerous and unhelpful with the national crisis we're dealing with. It's ban enough that the grass roots idiots are into this stuff but I also worry that politicians and govenors are going to push this stuff too far.
just think of the noise the Freepers will make if Congress passes the repressive and destructive cap and trade bill...or investigates Bush and Cheney for war crimes, or bring crimes against humanity charges against Exxon Mobile...plug your ears!
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MandyManners Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:53:28am |
re: #726 iceweasel
Look at how many Congresspeople have signed onto the crazy nirth certifikat legislation. 10 so far now, I think.
Link?
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:53:55am |
re: #716 taxfreekiller
Head is on a swivel at the tree line ahead - I have your six.
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Desert Dog Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:54:04am |
Breakfast is a ready...see you all later on...yummmo
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Kronocide Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:54:24am |
re: #722 Killgore Trout
I haven't seen that specific plan before but all these fantasies about impeachment, treason trials, armed revolution and secession are
dangerousfun andunhelpfulgives meaning to our otherwise boring lives ...
There, that's better.
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SixDegrees Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:54:28am |
re: #722 Killgore Trout
I haven't seen that specific plan before but all these fantasies about impeachment, treason trials, armed revolution and secession are dangerous and unhelpful with the national crisis we're dealing with. It's ban enough that the grass roots idiots are into this stuff but I also worry that politicians and govenors are going to push this stuff too far.
It's the same sort of bilge that has spewed, geyser-like, out of the cesspools at DK and DU for several years. Like the denizens of those fever swamps, extremist doofuses on the right aren't content to wait for the next election cycle to correct what they see as wrongs; like all pissed-off minority members, they see the imposition of their will on the populace as a worthy goal to strive for.
But there isn't anything particularly new or noteworthy about this eruption.
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:55:52am |
re: #722 Killgore Trout
"grass roots idiots" - do y'all mean the People there Killgore?
Or just People who don't agree with you?
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:56:02am |
re: #729 Pianobuff
You have a link for that? Thanks.
[Link: www.opencongress.org...]
HR 1503, sponsered by Posey, currently has 9 co-sponsers
To amend the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to require the principal campaign committee of a candidate for election to the office of President to include with the committee's statement of organization a copy of the candidate's birth certificate, together with such other documentation as may be necessary to establish that the candidate meets the qualifications for eligibility to the Office of President under the Constitution.
You're welcome.
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solomonpanting Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:56:27am |
re: #722 Killgore Trout
I haven't seen that specific plan before but all these fantasies about impeachment, treason trials, armed revolution and secession are dangerous and unhelpful with the national crisis we're dealing with. It's ban enough that the grass roots idiots are into this stuff but I also worry that politicians and govenors are going to push this stuff too far.
Hey, they're just valuable parts of free speech.
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reine.de.tout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:56:45am |
re: #731 Killgore Trout
BNP and thier anti-Islamization activities...
bnp wives[Video]
The Real Wives of the BNP.
742![]() |
Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:57:24am |
743![]() |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:59:12am |
re: #737 SixDegrees
But there isn't anything particularly new or noteworthy about this eruption.
Probably not but the left almost succeeded in losing the the Iraq war. If Bush's surge had failed we would have lost, it was a very close call. If the right manages to destabilize country or create a Constitutional crisis on top of our economic crisis I'll be really pissed. I'm also not happy about the prospect of civil unrest these idiots are working on.
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MandyManners Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:59:46am |
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albusteve Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:00:00am |
re: #740 solomonpanting
Hey, they're just valuable parts of free speech.
hardly the imminent threat Ron Paul is
746![]() |
Pianobuff Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:00:05am |
re: #739 iceweasel
You're welcome.
Thanks again. Interesting. If I'm reading this correctly, this legislation would impact our sitting President in his current term, correct?
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Pianobuff Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:00:33am |
re: #746 Pianobuff
Thanks again. Interesting. If I'm reading this correctly, this legislation would impact our sitting President in his current term, correct?
meant...would not impact
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Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:00:58am |
re: #741 reine.de.tout
That's clip is unfortunately edited down. I'd like to see the whole thing. It's worth noting that they're using the same anti-Ismalization symbol on their signs as the VB, FPO, and the rest of the Euro-Nazis.
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MandyManners Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:01:02am |
re: #746 Pianobuff
Thanks again. Interesting. If I'm reading this correctly, this legislation would impact our sitting President in his current term, correct?
My reading comprehension skills must suck.
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SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:01:26am |
751![]() |
Pianobuff Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:01:38am |
re: #749 MandyManners
My reading comprehension skills must suck.
No - I meant would not impact. It's my typing skills that suck today.
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Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:03:09am |
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:04:17am |
re: #747 Pianobuff
meant...would not impact
That's right.
It's disturbing because it's about pandering to the nirthers amongst their constituents. No other reason to put it forward.
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reine.de.tout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:04:23am |
re: #744 MandyManners
How is that a call to remove FCBBHO from the White House?
And (I should probably know this but I don't) - is a "house resolution" the same as "legislation"?
I always thought, no clue why I thought this, but I did, that "legislation" included those items that become law, not those items that call for a study or further action.
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albusteve Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:04:35am |
re: #743 Killgore Trout
Probably not but the left almost succeeded in losing the the Iraq war. If Bush's surge had failed we would have lost, it was a very close call. If the right manages to destabilize country or create a Constitutional crisis on top of our economic crisis I'll be really pissed. I'm also not happy about the prospect of civil unrest these idiots are working on.
the surge of Punative Liberalism is the greatest threat to this country since WW2...that's what's breeding the reckless blather from the right
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The Hoopster Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:04:39am |
re: #734 realwest
Head is on a swivel at the tree line ahead - I have your six.
This story is for you and TFK.. I grew up in Yountville, Ca. That is where the Vet home is...Our little town of about a 1000 people when I was a kid was and still is overrun by American Veterans.. Hero's all...You grow up with thousands of old men and you hold the door for everyone...Cause you know he is a great man.. We have one little bar that the Vets drink at..I used to sneak in there and listen to stories all night of battles and wars and selflessness...You grow up around thousands of old men, you see them all die,
It's a fact of life...I cherish the stories and pray for the heroes to this day...
God Bless all those Vets that have spent their last days at the Yountville Veterans Home...
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reine.de.tout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:04:50am |
re: #754 iceweasel
That's right.
It's disturbing because it's about pandering to the nirthers amongst their constituents. No other reason to put it forward.
Well, that I can agree with.
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:05:35am |
re: #732 albusteve
Hello my friend. The Freepers are, by their own words, fucking LOONS.
But do not be deceived, it will not be just the Freepers who "make if Congress passes the repressive and destructive cap and trade bill...or investigates Bush and Cheney for war crimes,"
I'd say, once the body politic understands those bills (and it's gonna take a while, not just because of the egregious - EVEN BY CONGRESSIONAL STANDARDS, length of those bills and all the true bullshit contained therein, but because of the 300+ page Amendment made at 3:19 Am on the morning of the vote on cap and trade) and proposed investigations by "bad cop" AG Holder, the body politic -including all but the most LOONY Leftists simply won't stand for it.
Not a bit of it.
The Leftist Party HAD the opportunity to achieve probably 80% of their goals, but, as usual, screwed the pooch by rushing folks to get it into law or started.
Americans are, God knows, a lot of things, but crazy and/or stupid over a long period of time isn't one of them.
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J.S. Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:05:44am |
re: #753 Killgore Trout
Nirther-gate (or not) was presented on Lou Dobbs -- but someone else was sitting in for Lou Dobbs -- I suspect the segment was presented so as to expose the Nirthers as evidence (and/or oxygen) deprived loons...
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solomonpanting Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:06:19am |
re: #752 MandyManners
Teh haid. It hurtz.
And broadcasting in this format must really make it megahertz.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:08:02am |
re: #666 buzzsawmonkey
That's perfectly logical, but it does not address the issue of how someone can cite to half a sentence--"See? This is my authority!"--while at the same time dismissing outright the authority for the half they are citing which is contained in the other half.
I have put it in pretty clear terms, which you keep ignoring.
In fact, let me get this straight: The Founding Fathers say that these rights are the inalienable property of all mankind, but you say that only Christians need apply? Or are Christians the only people qualified to speak intelligently on the topic?
Note that I am not criticising Christians here--rather, I am wondering what your take on this really is, regarding Christians, others, and the rights of man as set forth in the Declaration and safeguarded for Americans in our Constitution. It is you, not me, who has taken a magic marker to certain clauses of the Declaration.
I am beginning to think that you do not have such an issue with the distinction between human and civil rights. Instead, this sounds like a trigger for a completely different frustration.
I'm getting madder as I write, which is unfortunate, so I'll stop.
C'mon--set me straight. Show me where I'm wrong.
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Pianobuff Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:08:36am |
re: #754 iceweasel
That's right.
It's disturbing because it's about pandering to the nirthers amongst their constituents. No other reason to put it forward.
Yup - no doubt it's pandering. I'm just glad it has no effect on current term.
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MandyManners Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:09:26am |
re: #755 reine.de.tout
And (I should probably know this but I don't) - is a "house resolution" the same as "legislation"?
I always thought, no clue why I thought this, but I did, that "legislation" included those items that become law, not those items that call for a study or further action.
According to Merriam-Webster:
1: the action of legislating ; specifically : the exercise of the power and function of making rules (as laws) that have the force of authority by virtue of their promulgation by an official organ of a state or other organization
2: the enactments of a legislator or a legislative body
3: a matter of business for or under consideration by a legislative body
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Look At My New Grandbaby! Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:09:39am |
re: #765 haakondahl
I have put it in pretty clear terms, which you keep ignoring.
In fact, let me get this straight: The Founding Fathers say that these rights are the inalienable property of all mankind, but you say that only Christians need apply? Or are Christians the only people qualified to speak intelligently on the topic?
Note that I am not criticising Christians here--rather, I am wondering what your take on this really is, regarding Christians, others, and the rights of man as set forth in the Declaration and safeguarded for Americans in our Constitution. It is you, not me, who has taken a magic marker to certain clauses of the Declaration.
I am beginning to think that you do not have such an issue with the distinction between human and civil rights. Instead, this sounds like a trigger for a completely different frustration.
I'm getting madder as I write, which is unfortunate, so I'll stop.
C'mon--set me straight. Show me where I'm wrong.
I do not see where buzzsawmonkey used the word "Christian" in any of his posts.
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MandyManners Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:10:05am |
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:10:11am |
re: #764 buzzsawmonkey
It "panders" to them by /blockquote>
...by making the concerns of nirthers seem legitimate. They're not.
There is no reason for this other than for some Congresspeople to pander to some of their more deranged constituents. It's unnecessary.
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Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:10:24am |
re: #756 albusteve
the surge of Punative Liberalism is the greatest threat to this country since WW2...that's what's breeding the reckless blather from the right
Nonsense. People are responsible for their own reactions. It's also a bummer to see so many conservatives abdicating personal responsibility as a core value.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:11:24am |
re: #765 haakondahl
I am beginning to think that you do not have such an issue with the distinction between human and civil rights. Instead, this sounds like a trigger for a completely different frustration.
Bingo.
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Lincolntf Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:11:46am |
re: #771 Killgore Trout
We'd love to be personally responsible for our own medical decisions and energy consumption, that's for sure.
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albusteve Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:11:53am |
re: #760 realwest
over reaching in a mad grab for power...it seems to be coming unglued, we have to wait and see if sanity prevails...you may have more confidence than me...I'm pretty pessimistic...but if it all came crashing down in one term it would be an historic, even epic failure...a thing of beauty
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Pianobuff Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:12:18am |
re: #770 iceweasel
Do you see it as being harmful as well as unnecessary pandering... or mostly just unnecessary pandering?
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:12:28am |
re: #685 iceweasel
Holy Shit! Since when does Freep stage a coup d'etat to appoint Hillary Clinton?!?!
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:12:56am |
re: #739 iceweasel
Thank you for that. It does seem ridiculous to require all of that of a candidate for President of the United States in a piece of Federal crap legislation.
OTOH, just as with Public Financing of Political Campaigns (which will now either become mandatory - doubtful because the LEFTISTS now control the entire US Government - or will be tossed aside -for the same reasons).
President (then candidate) Obama changed America with his campaign - a lot of those changes were for the good; some - like reneging on his promise to take Public Financing - not so much.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:14:43am |
re: #776 haakondahl
Holy Shit! Since when does Freep stage a coup d'etat to appoint Hillary Clinton?!?!
I KNOW!!! WTF? Could we ever imagine we'd see the day?
That's why I posted it. Not because I think FR represent anything but themselves (the batshit insane on the fringe of the right), but because I can't believe they want to depose Obama to appoint HILLARY!
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SixDegrees Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:14:46am |
re: #743 Killgore Trout
Probably not but the left almost succeeded in losing the the Iraq war. If Bush's surge had failed we would have lost, it was a very close call. If the right manages to destabilize country or create a Constitutional crisis on top of our economic crisis I'll be really pissed. I'm also not happy about the prospect of civil unrest these idiots are working on.
It's no different from the calls for uncivil disobediance put out by ANSWER and similar groups, or by commenters at the blogs already mentioned and many others.
And that's all I'm saying - that it isn't unique to the right or the left. Both sides have their share of six-sigma morons, and they often share a totalitarian streak.
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alegrias Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:15:16am |
Wow, did anyone else the picture of 40 years ago tomorrow, of Joan Kennedy having to accompany her philandering husband to Mary Jo Kopechne's funeral?
Looks like Ted Kennedy put on a neck brace to attend Ms. Kopechne's funeral three days after he failed to "rescue" her on Chappaquidick Bay after driving off Dike Bridge.
(Saw this in the cover story about the "Lion" of the Senate in today's The Examiner.com)
Maybe Teddy & Ms. Kopechne had been celebrating the moon landing? Weird juxtaposition but euphoria over the moon landing obscured coverage of Ms. Kopechne's untimely death. Like Michael Jackson's funeral crowded out news of Gov. Mark Sanford's Argentinian tangos)
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albusteve Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:15:36am |
re: #771 Killgore Trout
Nonsense. People are responsible for their own reactions. It's also a bummer to see so many conservatives abdicating personal responsibility as a core value.
could not agree more...traditional conservatism may be dying, sort of a perverse divide and conquer suicide
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:15:57am |
re: #753 Killgore Trout
LOL! Those folks (Nirthers, I mean) just won't quit will they? Geebus, if there was ANY truth to the rumored "not native born" do the Nirthers not think Hillary woulda found it and used it?
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:16:47am |
re: #688 Flyers1974
Multi-culturalism is one of those bumpersticker slogans that seems to me to have no meaning. Mumbo-jumbo in my opinion. I'd take issue with your idea that amnesty delegitimizes anyone, however. Immigration is not an accomplishment. Unless you've escaped from somewhere and sought asylum, its a paper-pushing process. In fact, a portion of immigration to the US is determined by a "lottery" system - luck and nothing but luck. I don't think anyone would think less of immigrants should there be an amnesty, unless they were already inclined to feel that way. On kind of a similiar note, I've seen the common argument that amnesty is unfair to other potential immigrants who have applied for green cards. I say there is no "unfair" in this regard. The US can decide at any moment to throw every immigration petition in the trash, or on the other hand, to have open borders for anyone in the world, if the law is changed to allow such.
Agreed. I was thinking of the wierd amnesty from the last amnesty bill which separated people into categories based on how long they had been here, and gave various versions of legality of varying durations.
Among other things, they were to pay taxes but not vote, which I believe is a perfectly valid reason to throw off a government. That 2006 McCain-Kennedy amnesty bill was a time bomb.
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Desert Dog Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:16:52am |
re: #771 Killgore Trout
Nonsense. People are responsible for their own reactions. It's also a bummer to see so many conservatives abdicating personal responsibility as a core value.
Do you care about "conservative core values"? Really?
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Lincolntf Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:16:59am |
re: #778 BigPapa
Well, the State bird is the common loon, so maybe it's in the water up there.
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Ms. MacIceweasel Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:17:39am |
re: #775 Pianobuff
Do you see it as being harmful as well as unnecessary pandering... or mostly just unnecessary pandering?
I think it's harmful, because it lends credence to the wacky fantasies of those dreaming that Obama isn't legitimately in office.
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realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:18:36am |
re: #757 HoosierHoops
Hoops that was a very touching story. It truly was and I thank you for it.
But I would make one little change there and it's this:
"God Bless all those Vets that have spent their last days."
Thank you again for that story Hoops!
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Kronocide Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:19:43am |
re: #787 Lincolntf
On noes! Look what you started:
Minnesota has more common loons than any other state except Alaska.
/Discuss these interesting ramifications... LOL.
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jvic Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:19:43am |
re: #754 iceweasel
That's right.
It's disturbing because it's about pandering to the nirthers amongst their constituents. No other reason to put it forward.
re: #766 Pianobuff
Yup - no doubt it's pandering. I'm just glad it has no effect on current term.
It's nominally intended to "stop" Obama from running for reelection.
If this were 1998 (D President, R Congress), this might actually get to the President's desk. IMO the people who tried to impeach Clinton over a squalid affair have learned nothing from the damage to the country and are entirely willing to try the same garbage again.
The DNC has a talking point for 2010 here. More serious is what this, together with BDS, implies about the stability of the country.
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lurking faith Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:19:53am |
re: #658 Desert Dog
Good morning fellow lizards, I am whipping up a killer batch of pancakes, some eggs, bacon, hash browns and fresh bagels for my family unit. I hope this Sunday finds all of you well.
This Sunday - now - finds me hungry.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:21:35am |
re: #704 SasquatchOnSteroids
Who said it ? You did.
I was just seeing what answer ice would have, that's all.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Well, if Bigfoot goes bear-baiting, I suppose it's a wash.
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albusteve Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:21:41am |
re: #788 iceweasel
I think it's harmful, because it lends credence to the wacky fantasies of those dreaming that Obama isn't legitimately in office.
it's amusing, a minor sideshow...just another example of MSM infotainmenet
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SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:21:47am |
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Kronocide Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:22:48am |
re: #791 jvic
IMO the people who tried to impeach Clinton over a squalid affair have learned nothing from the damage to the country...
Clinton was impeached for lying under oath, not for the affair with Monica Lewinsky. Clinton himself has as much culpability in the damage to the country as any of the investigators or people calling for it.
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SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:22:58am |
798![]() |
realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:23:39am |
re: #771 Killgore Trout
"It's also a bummer to see so many conservatives abdicating personal responsibility as a core value."
Personal responsibility - does that include voting?
AND a cue for Mandy!
a true twofer!
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FrogMarch Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:24:31am |
heeeheee
Dodd E-Mail Making Fun of Lobbyists Was Sent to Lobbyists
can you say - phony corrupt populist boob?
800![]() |
albusteve Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:24:32am |
re: #791 jvic
It's nominally intended to "stop" Obama from running for reelection.
If this were 1998 (D President, R Congress), this might actually get to the President's desk. IMO the people who tried to impeach Clinton over a squalid affair have learned nothing from the damage to the country and are entirely willing to try the same garbage again.
The DNC has a talking point for 2010 here. More serious is what this, together with BDS, implies about the stability of the country.
wow...he was accused by several woman of rape and lied to...ah forget it
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Pianobuff Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:25:11am |
re: #791 jvic
It's nominally intended to "stop" Obama from running for reelection.
If this were 1998 (D President, R Congress), this might actually get to the President's desk. IMO the people who tried to impeach Clinton over a squalid affair have learned nothing from the damage to the country and are entirely willing to try the same garbage again.
The DNC has a talking point for 2010 here. More serious is what this, together with BDS, implies about the stability of the country.
OK - Help me out with this. (disclosure: not a nirther)
Obama was born in the USA and already has his paperwork in order. Let's say hypothetical legislation passes. Obama shows what he's already shown and other candidates do in kind. Advance to Go and good luck in the election.
To me it's just a business-as-usual thing in a few years were this to pass.
Is the legislation aimed at some folks that were upset this election cycle...of course. But I guess I'm not seeing how this would stop Obama from running... even marginally.
Can someone help me out? What the heck am I missing?
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Kronocide Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:25:23am |
re: #797 SasquatchOnSteroids
Can you imagine what's in his garage ?
Yes, his bedroom with Sesame Street sheets cuz he still lives with his parents.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:25:46am |
re: #702 realwest
re: #686 haakondahl
re: #687 FrogMarch
re: #688 Flyers1974
I'd like to thank y'all for heeding my admonition in #679 about giving it some time so folks wouldn't post and interrupt the posting of The List. There are SOME of us who appreciate the publication of The List because it helps others to pray for or send best wishes for to others who are in need of comfort or congratulation.
aCTUALLY, LUCK WAS THE THING. i HAVE BEEN 100-150 POSTS BEHIND FOR HALF THE THREAD. And too lazy to go correct the CAPS, sorry. Within the last 50 posts, I have made an effort to powerskim. Catching up.
804![]() |
FrogMarch Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:25:46am |
805![]() |
J.S. Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:26:16am |
re: #794 albusteve
I've noticed (btw) that the MSM went out-of-the-wait to never (or if they did, I didn't hear it) mention Bush Derangement Syndrome (even in its most bizarre manifestations)...Yet, the other day, on CNN, someone immediately attributed some (agreed it was a stupid statement) to "ODS" -- "Obama derangement Syndrome". (this is probably just the start of the "Eveybody's got ODS! Yes, it's true! True, I tell you!" so anyone objecting to policy X supported by the Obama Administration, it'll be ascribed to ODS.)
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solomonpanting Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:26:39am |
re: #785 haakondahl
Agreed. I was thinking of the wierd amnesty from the last amnesty bill which separated people into categories based on how long they had been here, and gave various versions of legality of varying durations.
Among other things, they were to pay taxes but not vote, which I believe is a perfectly valid reason to throw off a government. That 2006 McCain-Kennedy amnesty bill was a time bomb.
That legal immigrant residents pay taxes but don't vote also be a reason to throw off a government?
807![]() |
haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:26:46am |
re: #727 buzzsawmonkey
You'd have to be advocating Hanuman Rights instead of human rights, wouldn't you?
Heh!
808![]() |
Desert Dog Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:27:15am |
re: #792 lurking faith
This Sunday - now - finds me hungry.
There's still some left. I have my slaves, oops, my kids doing the dishes now.
809![]() |
jvic Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:27:39am |
810![]() |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:28:10am |
re: #799 FrogMarch
heeeheee
Dodd E-Mail Making Fun of Lobbyists Was Sent to Lobbyists
can you say - phony corrupt populist boob?
funny!
but really easy to do (I've embarrassed myself a time or two).
811![]() |
realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:28:14am |
re: #774 albusteve
over reaching in a mad grab for power...it seems to be coming unglued, we have to wait and see if sanity prevails...you may have more confidence than me...I'm pretty pessimistic...but if it all came crashing down in one term it would be an historic, even epic failure...a thing of beauty
[emphasis added, realwest]
No my friend, given all the genuine sacrifices made by so many MILLIONS of Americans over such a long period of time, ALL OVER THE WORLD, it would be a thing of the worst ugliness I can imagine. Indeed, it might even ring in the beginnings of a new Dark Ages.
812![]() |
Desert Dog Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:28:19am |
re: #799 FrogMarch
heeeheee
Dodd E-Mail Making Fun of Lobbyists Was Sent to Lobbyists
can you say - phony corrupt populist boob?
Yes, I am sure Sen. Dodd and all of his lobbyist friends will get a big laugh out of that one at the next "be my buddy" meeting
814![]() |
Desert Dog Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:30:21am |
re: #805 J.S.
I've noticed (btw) that the MSM went out-of-the-wait to never (or if they did, I didn't hear it) mention Bush Derangement Syndrome (even in its most bizarre manifestations)...Yet, the other day, on CNN, someone immediately attributed some (agreed it was a stupid statement) to "ODS" -- "Obama derangement Syndrome". (this is probably just the start of the "Eveybody's got ODS! Yes, it's true! True, I tell you!" so anyone objecting to policy X supported by the Obama Administration, it'll be ascribed to ODS.)
815![]() |
MandyManners Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:30:24am |
re: #813 buzzsawmonkey
Clinton was impeached for lying under oath.
Monica was not prosecuted for lying under oaf.
I thought that she was on ah, nevermind.
816![]() |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:30:59am |
817![]() |
realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:31:12am |
re: #781 alegrias
Hello my friend! Do you perhaps have a link to that? I mean, is it available on line?
818![]() |
Desert Dog Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:31:21am |
re: #813 buzzsawmonkey
Clinton was impeached for lying under oath.
Monica was not prosecuted for lying under oaf.
No, but her name entered the slang lexicon for the ages...she'll live forever now
819![]() |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:31:49am |
re: #801 Pianobuff
OK - Help me out with this. (disclosure: not a nirther)
Obama was born in the USA and already has his paperwork in order. Let's say hypothetical legislation passes. Obama shows what he's already shown and other candidates do in kind. Advance to Go and good luck in the election.
To me it's just a business-as-usual thing in a few years were this to pass.
Is the legislation aimed at some folks that were upset this election cycle...of course. But I guess I'm not seeing how this would stop Obama from running... even marginally.
Can someone help me out? What the heck am I missing?
I don't think it would stop him from running.
I happen to have my original birth certificate now; but earlier in my life, before I located it, I needed it and got the "certificate of live birth" (what Obama has) and it was accepted just as the original would have been.
What bothers me about the house resolution is that it is a silly time-waster. Don't our elected officials have better things to do with their time?
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Lincolntf Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:32:00am |
re: #805 J.S.
Yep, happens in the syndicated columns all the time. All criticism of actual Obama policies (stimulus, shipping Uighurs to Bermuda, cap-and-die legislation, etc.) is lumped in with "ODS".
"Bush is a Nazi" is deranged. "Obama is tripling our defict" is reality.
That kind of willful ignorance/deception on the part of the MSM is disgusting. Perfectly predictable, but disgusting.
821![]() |
alegrias Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:32:29am |
re: #621 realwest
"As an example, what has Dan Rather been doing for the last four years other than unsuccessfully suing CBS?". YES.
And again, THANK YOU CHARLES!
* * * *
Just saw this post from RealWest! Celebrating Charles Johnson's VICTORY, D-DAY, over lying scribes pretending to tell the truth.
Thank you Charles, for showing us the networks were not gods.
822![]() |
albusteve Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:32:41am |
re: #805 J.S.
I've noticed (btw) that the MSM went out-of-the-wait to never (or if they did, I didn't hear it) mention Bush Derangement Syndrome (even in its most bizarre manifestations)...Yet, the other day, on CNN, someone immediately attributed some (agreed it was a stupid statement) to "ODS" -- "Obama derangement Syndrome". (this is probably just the start of the "Eveybody's got ODS! Yes, it's true! True, I tell you!" so anyone objecting to policy X supported by the Obama Administration, it'll be ascribed to ODS.)
look no further than this blog and you will see that bizarre reversal...modern AmIdol politics of the very worst sort...I hate the MSM with a passion...the most destructive, divisive, deceitful beast in America
823![]() |
haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:32:45am |
re: #768 Alouette
I do not see where buzzsawmonkey used the word "Christian" in any of his posts.
I asked for that distinction--I got a (funny) joke in response. Why do you think I asked if it would chap BSM's ass more than my agnostic citation of the Declaration, if it were instead a Hanumanitarian (?) citation of the Declaration?
I enjoyed the joke, but there's an important and now unanswered question hanging out there.
824![]() |
Kronocide Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:32:51am |
re: #818 Desert Dog
No, but her name entered the slang lexicon for the ages...she'll live forever now
Monica Lewinsky, the gift that keeps on giving.
825![]() |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:33:25am |
Interesting...
Ahmadinejad's controversial VP pick quits
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's choice as first vice president, Esfandiar Rahim Mashaie, has walked away from the job, state media reported on Sunday.
Mashaie, a controversial politician and confidant of Ahmadinejad, has "resigned three days after his appointment" as first vice president, state-owned English-language channel Press TV reported.
The channel initially sourced its report to the education ministry-funded news agency, Pana. In its news item, Pana said "The content of his resignation letter will be published soon."
There was no immediate independent confirmation of Mashaie's resignation.
The appointment was strongly opposed by hardliners among Ahmadinejad's own support base.
Mashaie, whose daughter is married to Ahmadinejad's son, is an outspoken figure who last year earned the wrath of hardliners, including supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, for saying Iran is a "friend of the Israeli people."
826![]() |
solomonpanting Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:34:26am |
re: #813 buzzsawmonkey
Clinton was impeached for lying under oath.
Yep. He failed to give a blow by blow account of the events.
827![]() |
Kronocide Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:34:29am |
re: #819 reine.de.tout
What bothers me about the house resolution is that it is a silly time-waster. Don't our elected officials have better things to do with their time?
Absolutely not! While they're battling over this they can't spend any money. I'm all for this legislation and any similar! Keep em busy!
828![]() |
Desert Dog Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:36:03am |
re: #825 Killgore Trout
Interesting...
Ahmadinejad's controversial VP pick quits
I see a midnight visit to his house in the next few days
829![]() |
haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:36:17am |
re: #779 iceweasel
I KNOW!!! WTF? Could we ever imagine we'd see the day?
That's why I posted it. Not because I think FR represent anything but themselves (the batshit insane on the fringe of the right), but because I can't believe they want to depose Obama to appoint HILLARY!
Well, they're crazy, but they're not stupid. Crazy is asking your victorious opponent to go back and pick their second choice. Stupid is asking your victorious opponent to go back and pick your own choice.
830![]() |
albusteve Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:36:21am |
re: #811 realwest
I'm speaking of the Mighty BO...not America herself...too many armed and dangerous patriots
831![]() |
realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:36:22am |
re: #787 Lincolntf
ROTFL! Ya know I coulda sworn the common LOON was the state bird of Maine (Collins, Snowe, et. al.) but no, it turns out that the state bird of Maine is merely the Black-capped Chickadee![Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
832![]() |
Armywife Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:36:40am |
What a week! Movers picked things up in MD Monday and Tuesday, delivered in Richmond Wednesday, but for the shed items (which are taking up my garage), I am 98% complete on unpacking and storing. I just dropped Mr. Armywife off at the train station, and he is headed back to MD for his final 3 weeks there. He is going to live with my Daddy. Wonder how that is going to go...
834![]() |
Flyers1974 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:36:46am |
re: #785 haakondahl
Agreed. I was thinking of the wierd amnesty from the last amnesty bill which separated people into categories based on how long they had been here, and gave various versions of legality of varying durations.
Among other things, they were to pay taxes but not vote, which I believe is a perfectly valid reason to throw off a government. That 2006 McCain-Kennedy amnesty bill was a time bomb.
In general, length of stay requirements regarding past amnesties were to prevent an influx of illegals coming over the border in response to an amnesty announcement. I can't say for sure this is true for the bill you are referring to because I was pretty sure it wouldn't pass so I didn't pay close attention. I'm guessing the various versions of legality you refer to were put there in an attempt to appease those on the fence.
836![]() |
Desert Dog Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:37:06am |
re: #826 solomonpanting
Yep. He failed to give a blow by blow account of the events.
837![]() |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:37:07am |
re: #827 BigPapa
Absolutely not! While they're battling over this they can't spend any money. I'm all for this legislation and any similar! Keep em busy!
well, ya got a point there.
838![]() |
albusteve Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:37:26am |
839![]() |
Pianobuff Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:37:48am |
re: #819 reine.de.tout
I don't think it would stop him from running.
I happen to have my original birth certificate now; but earlier in my life, before I located it, I needed it and got the "certificate of live birth" (what Obama has) and it was accepted just as the original would have been.What bothers me about the house resolution is that it is a silly time-waster. Don't our elected officials have better things to do with their time?
On that I'm in complete agreement with you and that's my main issue as well. I guess I don't see it as dangerous or anything since the BC issue was resolved a long time ago.
840![]() |
Desert Dog Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:38:18am |
re: #832 Armywife
What a week! Movers picked things up in MD Monday and Tuesday, delivered in Richmond Wednesday, but for the shed items (which are taking up my garage), I am 98% complete on unpacking and storing. I just dropped Mr. Armywife off at the train station, and he is headed back to MD for his final 3 weeks there. He is going to live with my Daddy. Wonder how that is going to go...
I bet you are a moving expert. I have two uncles that were in the Air Force. They moved all the time and had it down pretty good.
841![]() |
wahabicorridor Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:39:30am |
re: #832 Armywife
I feel for you. I hate moving. Haven't had to do it in about 13 yrs.
842![]() |
Armywife Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:40:49am |
re: #840 Desert Dog
Yah, well, we were in MD for 7 years so we accumulated a lot of stuff! Who knew we had so much stuff! The old house was a 250 year old farm house, the new house is, well, new, so not much of the old decor fit this house I discovered. I need to have the mother of all yard sales.
844![]() |
MandyManners Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:41:48am |
If I got such a call from Rooney, I'd tell him to kiss my ass.
845![]() |
wahabicorridor Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:42:23am |
Oh Charles! YOO HOO CHARLES!
You'll love this headline in Politico today.
Republicans embrace Ron Paul on domestic policy
It’s a unique time for Paul. With the economy in the tank, the same cable news shows that spurned him during the election now keep asking him on to talk monetary policy. Republican House members are finally voting with him on spending measures.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:42:42am |
re: #783 buzzsawmonkey
Sorry if that makes you mad, but to me that's as hypocritical as it would be were I, as a non-Christian, to cite to Christian doctrine as a source for justifying something I espoused.
Uh, if you get to translate from one religious frame of reference to another, why can't I? I'm going to hold off on the rest for a while, until I catch up.
847![]() |
wahabicorridor Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:43:11am |
re: #843 buzzsawmonkey
Where did you find a couch that comfortable? I want one.
heh.
Lazyboy, believe it or not
848![]() |
Desert Dog Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:43:25am |
re: #842 Armywife
Yah, well, we were in MD for 7 years so we accumulated a lot of stuff! Who knew we had so much stuff! The old house was a 250 year old farm house, the new house is, well, new, so not much of the old decor fit this house I discovered. I need to have the mother of all yard sales.
Moving is a drag. I told Mrs. Desert Dog when we moved in this house...THIS IS IT. But, once the kiddies grow up and move away, we might not need something so big...but, that is a ways off.
I hope it goes smooth. One day at a time
849![]() |
albusteve Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:44:01am |
re: #843 buzzsawmonkey
Where did you find a couch that comfortable? I want one.
the Lot's Wife Company
850![]() |
realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:44:05am |
re: #796 BigPapa
Hey BigPapa - and let's not forget that, after the impeachment proceedings went down in flames, William Jefferson Clinton was found guilty of Perjury and "voluntarily suspended" his law license to avoid charges of Federal Perjury.[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
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Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:44:51am |
re: #845 wahabicorridor
The Palinites should breath a sigh of relief than Ron Paul disses Palin. The Paulians have been debating if they should support Palin. Maybe this will put and end to that.
852![]() |
MandyManners Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:45:29am |
853![]() |
Gus Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:45:42am |
1. Windows buttoned up - check.
2. Fan coil - on.
3. AC - on.
Coffee, freon, and electricity.
//I wonder how long I'll be able to use numbers 2 and 3 or see my electric bill double or triple as the rate go up to help save the carrots.
854![]() |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:45:43am |
Noone moves well.
There are just lesser degrees of misery.
856![]() |
Pianobuff Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:46:08am |
re: #851 Killgore Trout
The Palinites should breath a sigh of relief than Ron Paul disses Palin. The Paulians have been debating if they should support Palin. Maybe this will put and end to that.
I laughed while reading the section where RP referred to Palin supporters as country club Republicans.
857![]() |
wahabicorridor Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:47:48am |
re: #851 Killgore Trout
The Palinites should breath a sigh of relief than Ron Paul disses Palin. The Paulians have been debating if they should support Palin. Maybe this will put and end to that.
Good point, KT, hadn't thought of it.
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alegrias Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:47:56am |
re: #817 realwest
Hello my friend! Do you perhaps have a link to that? I mean, is it available on line?
* * * *
Morning RealWest Sir!
Story of 40th anniversary of Mary Jo Kopechne's funeral tomorrow is at Washingtonexaminer.com which I get by email but can't link to...Murdering Teddy's big toothed face is on the front cover.
Mary Jo Kopechne's funeral picture with Joanne Kennedy arriving wearing a white miniskirt coat, with guilty Teddy dragging his heels behind her, is inside the article.
859![]() |
Desert Dog Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:48:33am |
re: #858 alegrias
* * * *
Morning RealWest Sir!Story of 40th anniversary of Mary Jo Kopechne's funeral tomorrow is at Washingtonexaminer.com which I get by email but can't link to...Murdering Teddy's big toothed face is on the front cover.
Mary Jo Kopechne's funeral picture with Joanne Kennedy arriving wearing a white miniskirt coat, with guilty Teddy dragging his heels behind her, is inside the article.
He actually went to her funeral??? OMG!
860![]() |
pingjockey Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:48:45am |
Mornin' folks. Not so good though. One of the people on my irrigation line has pop up sprinklers and being retired has nothing better to do than worry about his yard and the filter for the community irrigation pump. Unfortunately he doesn't know SHIT and now the pump isn't working and my wife has left with the vehicle and my wallet! So I hope it's 2 big fuses, if not the community can jump his ass to get it fixed cause his goddamned pop up sprinklers wouldn't pop up!
861![]() |
Pianobuff Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:49:10am |
After 15 holes, Watson has re-claimed the outright lead back in the British Open.
862![]() |
Gang of One Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:49:21am |
863![]() |
haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:49:47am |
re: #806 solomonpanting
That legal immigrant residents pay taxes but don't vote also be a reason to throw off a government?
Uh, we've done it before, and I think it was a sound decision. Either we say what we mean or we do not. We have no business in the land of the free, institutionalizing (or institutionalising) a system with tiered citizenship. In or Out. And fine, be generous, but not overly so, with who gets to be In. Immigration is good. Blurring the lines between citizenship and non-citizenship is not good; it is the chosen path of thsoe who hold international standards more dear than American ones, and we are already doing it with everything from border-jumpers to foreign dictators and terrorists.
864![]() |
poteen Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:49:55am |
re: #819 reine.de.tout
Even if he has a Latvian BC, his mother's is from Kansas or thereabouts.
So it doesn't matter does it?
865![]() |
realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:50:38am |
re: #819 reine.de.tout
Hi reine! "Don't our elected officials have better things to do with their time?"
You mean like, work? On the massive legislation that is before them?
Oh Puleeze - these folks didn't get elected to work, they got elected to avoid having to work!
866![]() |
Flyers1974 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:50:50am |
re: #851 Killgore Trout
The Palinites should breath a sigh of relief than Ron Paul disses Palin. The Paulians have been debating if they should support Palin. Maybe this will put and end to that.
Speaking of Ron Paul, he is in his early 70's. I wonder what happens to his movement, whatever you want to call it, after he retires, etc...
867![]() |
Pianobuff Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:51:56am |
re: #866 Flyers1974
Speaking of Ron Paul, he is in his early 70's. I wonder what happens to his movement, whatever you want to call it, after he retires, etc...
Well, his son Rand Paul is out there...
868![]() |
FrogMarch Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:52:42am |
re: #812 Desert Dog
Dodd explanation: 'Look guys - I have to do this - this populist shtick is all I have left. and the folks love it! They eat it up like flap jacks.'
869![]() |
VegasRick Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:52:43am |
re: #858 alegrias
* * * *
Morning RealWest Sir!Story of 40th anniversary of Mary Jo Kopechne's funeral tomorrow is at Washingtonexaminer.com which I get by email but can't link to...Murdering Teddy's big toothed face is on the front cover.
Mary Jo Kopechne's funeral picture with Joanne Kennedy arriving wearing a white miniskirt coat, with guilty Teddy dragging his heels behind her, is inside the article.
A fateful moment 40 years ago this morning
By: MARC SANDALOW
Special to The Examiner
July 19, 2009 Forty years later, there are still more questions than answers.
Why did Kennedy, then a 37-year-old married senator, leave the party with 29-year-old Mary Jo Kopechne? Why did he drive in the wrong direction, swerve off the bridge, fail to pull her body from the water, and take 10 hours to report the accident? Did a concussion blur his judgment? Might Kennedy have become president?
This much is certain: Kennedy’s fate and the nation’s history were altered by what happened on Chappaquiddick Island, Mass., in the summer of 1969.
It was 40 years ago this morning that Kennedy, dry and sober, walked into the Edgartown police station — across the channel from Chappaquiddick — and told police that he was the driver of the black Oldsmobile that had already been discovered upside down with Kopechne’s corpse inside.
Exactly what happened on the previous hot July night will probably never be known.
Kennedy said he left a party shortly before midnight to catch the final ferry to Martha’s Vineyard and drop off Kopechne, who didn’t feel well.
His story, which has never wavered, is that in darkness he turned the wrong way and veered off the unmarked bridge. He said the current prevented him from freeing Kopechne, despite numerous attempts, and a blow to the head contributed to his failure to immediately report the accident, behavior that he acknowledged was “indefensible.’’
His many doubters — pointing to Kopechne’s purse that she had left behind, Kennedy’s knowledge of the area, and his reputation for drinking and womanizing, assert that the senator was headed to the beach when he lost control of the car, and then spent the next 10 hours figuring out how to save his political career.
The incident put Kennedy’s presidential ambitions on hold for a decade, and almost certainly cost him a chance at the office. He pleaded guilty to fleeing the scene of an accident and was given a two-month suspended sentence. It contributed to his ouster from the Senate’s No. 2 leadership position following the 1970 election, and marked him as a polarizing figure.
At the same time, the developments freed him to focus on the Senate. No longer constrained in leadership or with presidential ambitions, he became chairman of the Senate’s health subcommittee, putting him on the path toward the chairmanship he holds today. He grew old in an institution from which two of his brothers had started presidential campaigns by the time they were barely 40. The anniversary now passes with little notice.
It is a crude measurement of Kennedy’s accomplishments and the public’s ability to move on, but the incident that seemed destined to define him 40 years ago is not mentioned in his Wikipedia biography until the third paragraph.
TK makes me want to puke.
871![]() |
VegasRick Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:53:56am |
re: #866 Flyers1974
Speaking of Ron Paul, he is in his early 70's. I wonder what happens to his movement, whatever you want to call it, after he retires, etc...
Gets flushed.
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Flyers1974 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:54:00am |
re: #863 haakondahl
Among other things, they were to pay taxes but not vote, which I believe is a perfectly valid reason to throw off a government. That 2006 McCain-Kennedy amnesty bill was a time bomb.
I was unclear what you meant here so wasn't sure how to respond.
875![]() |
alegrias Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:55:13am |
re: #848 Desert Dog
Moving is a drag. I told Mrs. Desert Dog when we moved in this house...THIS IS IT. But, once the kiddies grow up and move away, we might not need something so big...but, that is a ways off.
I hope it goes smooth. One day at a time
* * * *
Movers and "for sale" signs galore in McMansion territory, sighted yesterday in ritzy Northern Virginia neighborhoods.
Virginia's unemployment rate is around 7.7%, supposedly much lower than national levels, but it's weird to see so many palatial fake Versailles, Venetian, Roman, Disney-esque houses up for sale.
Stimulus ain't working its magic fast enough in Mr. Obama's neighborhood (moonbat territory).
876![]() |
Flyers1974 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:56:12am |
re: #867 Pianobuff
Good point, wasn't aware he had a son. For what a guess is worth, I'm thinking the RP thing goes away after he retires, etc..., kind of like with Ross Perot.
877![]() |
haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:56:22am |
re: #859 Desert Dog
He actually went to her funeral??? OMG!
No doubt to render assistance in case the casket skidded off into a lake.
879![]() |
alegrias Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:57:38am |
re: #859 Desert Dog
He actually went to her funeral??? OMG!
* * * *
YES, Teddy Kennedy AND HIS POOR WIFE Joan Kennedy, attended his victim's funeral forty years ago this week.
Mary Jo Kopechne's parents were supposedly still alive until recently.
How would you like to see your daughter's murderer go on to be hailed as a hero of some sort?
880![]() |
Pianobuff Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:58:35am |
re: #876 Flyers1974
Good point, wasn't aware he had a son. For what a guess is worth, I'm thinking the RP thing goes away after he retires, etc..., kind of like with Ross Perot.
My guess would be similar to yours, except that nature abhors a vacuum and this one may persist.
881![]() |
wahabicorridor Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:59:10am |
re: #872 Flyers1974
Among other things, they were to pay taxes but not vote, which I believe is a perfectly valid reason to throw off a government.
Which is the problem in D.C. Taxed w/o representation. And believe me, they are taxed
882![]() |
realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:59:28am |
re: #845 wahabicorridor
Oh Great. Just great. Charles already has a Mark Sanford thread up and you just gave him another Thread on a stupid shit, dumb ass Republican!
What's wrong with you? What, you couldn't find a story on Pelosi or Reid or Durban or Murtha or Kennedy or Dodd or Waxman or Boxer or Feinstien or...well you get the point.
Sheesh.
883![]() |
wahabicorridor Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:00:35am |
re: #875 alegrias
hola alegrias!
houses in our 'hood are selling about 10% off rates a year ago and they're on the market about 2 mos longer - but they're selling.
884![]() |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:00:41am |
re: #865 realwest
Hi reine! "Don't our elected officials have better things to do with their time?"
You mean like, work? On the massive legislation that is before them?
Oh Puleeze - these folks didn't get elected to work, they got elected to avoid having to work!
Hiya, Realwest. Yes, that's exactly what I mean! You knew that.
My experience with La. legislative "resolutions" was never a good one. They were time-wasting. If they had any authority over whatever it was they passed a "resolution" about, OR if they ever had any intention of actually doing something about whatever the resolution was about, they would have proposed some actual legislation rather than a "resolution". I can only assume it's a similar process for Congress. bah.
885![]() |
realwest Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:00:58am |
Well it's been interesting as usual, but I gotta go now. Hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.
886![]() |
alegrias Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:01:08am |
re: #869 VegasRick
A fateful moment 40 years ago this morning
By: MARC SANDALOW
Special to The Examiner
July 19, 2009 Forty years later, there are still more questions than answers.Why did Kennedy, then a 37-year-old married senator, leave the party with 29-year-old Mary Jo Kopechne? Why did he drive in the wrong direction, swerve off the bridge, fail to pull her body from the water, and take 10 hours to report the accident? Did a concussion blur his judgment? Might Kennedy have become president?
This much is certain: Kennedy’s fate and the nation’s history were altered by what happened on Chappaquiddick Island, Mass., in the summer of 1969.
It was 40 years ago this morning that Kennedy, dry and sober, walked into the Edgartown police station — across the channel from Chappaquiddick — and told police that he was the driver of the black Oldsmobile that had already been discovered upside down with Kopechne’s corpse inside.
Exactly what happened on the previous hot July night will probably never be known.
Kennedy said he left a party shortly before midnight to catch the final ferry to Martha’s Vineyard and drop off Kopechne, who didn’t feel well.
His story, which has never wavered, is that in darkness he turned the wrong way and veered off the unmarked bridge. He said the current prevented him from freeing Kopechne, despite numerous attempts, and a blow to the head contributed to his failure to immediately report the accident, behavior that he acknowledged was “indefensible.’’
His many doubters — pointing to Kopechne’s purse that she had left behind, Kennedy’s knowledge of the area, and his reputation for drinking and womanizing, assert that the senator was headed to the beach when he lost control of the car, and then spent the next 10 hours figuring out how to save his political career.
The incident put Kennedy’s presidential ambitions on hold for a decade, and almost certainly cost him a chance at the office. He pleaded guilty to fleeing the scene of an accident and was given a two-month suspended sentence. It contributed to his ouster from the Senate’s No. 2 leadership position following the 1970 election, and marked him as a polarizing figure.
At the same time, the developments freed him to focus on the Senate. No longer constrained in leadership or with presidential ambitions, he became chairman of the Senate’s health subcommittee, putting him on the path toward the chairmanship he holds today. He grew old in an institution from which two of his brothers had started presidential campaigns by the time they were barely 40. The anniversary now passes with little notice.
It is a crude measurement of Kennedy’s accomplishments and the public’s ability to move on, but the incident that seemed destined to define him 40 years ago is not mentioned in his Wikipedia biography until the third paragraph.
TK makes me want to puke.
* * * **
Thank you for finding this article. The picture of the Kennedys arriving at Mary Jo Kopechne's funeral is disturbing.
887![]() |
haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:01:22am |
re: #872 Flyers1974
Among other things, they were to pay taxes but not vote, which I believe is a perfectly valid reason to throw off a government. That 2006 McCain-Kennedy amnesty bill was a time bomb.
I was unclear what you meant here so wasn't sure how to respond.
re: #873 solomonpanting
I'll take that as a yes, then?
Absolutely. "No Taxation Without Representation."
889![]() |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:02:40am |
re: #864 poteen
Even if he has a Latvian BC, his mother's is from Kansas or therebouts.
So it doesn't matter does it?
Obama produced a Hawaiian certificate of live birth.
Not a Latvian certificate, or one from anywhere else. If Hawaii was a state when he was born (it was), then that certificate of live birth is acceptable.
890![]() |
SixDegrees Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:04:59am |
re: #791 jvic
IMO the people who tried to impeach Clinton over a squalid affair have learned nothing from the damage to the country and are entirely willing to try the same garbage again.
Completely agree. The entire sordid episode was completely overplayed, in my opinion. It would have been far better, once word of the affair was out, for the GOP to simply say to the Democrats - very publicly - "He's your problem; deal with this mess however you see fit" and then hold them to it. The Dems would have been painted into a corner and forced to act. Their solution might actually have been harsher than what finally happened in the end, given that they would have been forced to "own" the problem.
891![]() |
alegrias Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:05:00am |
re: #883 wahabicorridor
hola alegrias!
houses in our 'hood are selling about 10% off rates a year ago and they're on the market about 2 mos longer - but they're selling.
* * * *
Congratulations for your good taste & smarts~ also for not being a pretentious palatial ostentatious capitalist pig! (Not that there's anything wrong with that...but sheesh)
(Some of these places are so ridiculously over the top with servants quarters fit for Michael Jackson--who was half a billion in debt!)
892![]() |
haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:06:12am |
re: #881 wahabicorridor
Which is the problem in D.C. Taxed w/o representation. And believe me, they are taxed
That's because when they do get to vote, they vote for Democrats!
D.C. is a mess, status-wise, because it was never supposed to be more than a ski-lodge sort of government. "C'mon by after the planting in the Spring, we'll see if anybody needs war declared or needs confirmed for a job out back. Maybe we could do it again in the Fall, unless the harvest goes long."
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solomonpanting Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:08:17am |
895![]() |
poteen Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:09:36am |
re: #889 reine.de.tout
Obama produced a Hawaiian certificate of live birth.
Not a Latvian certificate, or one from anywhere else. If Hawaii was a state when he was born (it was), then that certificate of live birth is acceptable.
I know. My point is that even if he was born out of the country to an American mother he is a citizen. Unless his mother was an alien his BC is a moot point.
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wahabicorridor Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:12:27am |
re: #891 alegrias
HA! About 2 years ago when the last development in our neighborhood started going up, the street sign advertising it said 'starting in the mid $800,000'.
1 month later the figure was $900,000.
2 mos later it was $1 million.
It stayed there for 3 mos. Then over 2 mos, the figure fell until it was back to $800,000.
Then they took the sign down.
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Pianobuff Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:12:31am |
899![]() |
SixDegrees Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:13:44am |
re: #859 Desert Dog
He actually went to her funeral??? OMG!
Kennedy has been the standard setter for sleaze during his entire career.
Ted Kennedy is a murdering drunk. End of story. It needs to be engraved on his crypt. It ought to be uttered every time he opens his mouth, anywhere, about anything, and TV news services ought to put it next to his name in parentheses whenever he is shown.
And speaking of competency to hold office - where are all the nirthers when Ted's ability to do his job comes up? Which it ought to every single day, given that he has a brain tumor. Should some hack be allowed to hold office when he can barely drool into a bucket without assistance? Or is that just a perk of being rich, famous and having a bootlegger as a daddy?
Signed, No Friend of the Kennedys, in case there's any doubt.
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reine.de.tout Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:17:03am |
re: #895 poteen
I know. My point is that even if he was born out of the country to an American mother he is a citizen. Unless his mother was an alien his BC is a moot point.
ah.
I don't know - if an American citizen gives birth out of the country, do they not get at some point a US birth certificate? I would have assumed so, but I really don't know.
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Gang of One Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:20:50am |
re: #900 reine.de.tout
ah.
I don't know - if an American citizen gives birth out of the country, do they not get at some point a US birth certificate? I would have assumed so, but I really don't know.
Don't they hold dual citizenship and have to make a decision of allegiance at age 18 when reaching majority?
902![]() |
Rolltideroll Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:22:24am |
Morning LIzards. I am sure this has been posted, but on the off chance it has not, here is a nirther taking time out of reading World Net Daily to hassle a lawmaker about the certificate. I have no idea why she launches into the Pledge.
903![]() |
Rolltideroll Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:23:51am |
re: #306 Karridine
Is that you, Bobby Fisher?We have been looking for you.
905![]() |
Flyers1974 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:30:32am |
re: #881 wahabicorridor
Which is the problem in D.C. Taxed w/o representation. And believe me, they are taxed
No doubt about it they are definitely taxed, but they are not US citizens. Taxation w/o rep is wrong I think only regarding US citizens.
906![]() |
Flyers1974 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:34:17am |
re: #900 reine.de.tout
ah.
I don't know - if an American citizen gives birth out of the country, do they not get at some point a US birth certificate? I would have assumed so, but I really don't know.
Most people born to a US citizen mother in a foreign country are automatic US citizens. I'll provide link in a few.
907![]() |
shortshrift Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:43:51am |
re: #783 buzzsawmonkey
I am merely making the observation that it is disingenuous as hell for people who make a point of announcing their lack of a belief in a Creator--note that I have not specified said Creator in any way, shape, or form--to cite to the Declaration's "unalienable rights" language, since that language specifically does cite to a Creator as the source of them.
Period.
Does that mean that the rights don't apply to those who don't believe in the named Source of Rights? No. Of course not. It merely means that the people who don't believe in that Source, but use that Source-based language to justify the existence of said rights, are playing both ends against the middle.
Sorry if that makes you mad, but to me that's as hypocritical as it would be were I, as a non-Christian, to cite to Christian doctrine as a source for justifying something I espoused.
I've enjoyed this exchange. May I, as an atheist, just point out that there is no hypocrisy in citing to the section of the Declaration which states that the "Creator" endowed man with inalienable rights. For an atheist the "Creator" term is a nullity. The phrase might as well read, "endowed by
%$&*". The meaningful part of the statement is that there are inalienable rights . Not endowed by %$&*, but asserted by the document. The assertion of the inalienability of certain rights - that they belong to the person and cannot be separated from him (by government or any other person) - that is significant, not their source. They could come from anywhere, but as long as they are inalienable, we can move to a constitution based on that idea.
In the same way I can sing hymns and recite the Pledge without being hypocritical. I can act as Christians do, without believing in their God, and not be hypocritical. I can hold Christians to their own doctrine too, without being hypocritical. In all this I am not acting against my principles.
908![]() |
shortshrift Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:47:46am |
re: #907 shortshrift
In the above post, my comment begins at "I have enjoyed this exchange". The text before that is a quote from buzzsawmonkey.
909![]() |
notamolly Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:50:06am |
re: #327 littleoldlady
Hoosier! :-)
Might if I do a little switcheroo? Cottage cheese and blueberries!
/FINALLY a tad more affordable around here this year
Yummy! That will hit the spot! Thanks LOL!
910![]() |
Flyers1974 Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:56:29am |
re: #900 reine.de.tout
I just realized your question was about an actual birth certificate. The answer would be no, but they would get a certificate upon application which proves their status. But its not the same as the usual hospital or state birth certificate.
912![]() |
haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 12:30:38pm |
re: #911 buzzsawmonkey
Your last paragraph basically advocates "atheist taqiyya and kitman" as your principle(s).
You seem to miss the essential point that while the rights with which man is endowed "could have come from anywhere," the people who assert them in the Declaration assert quite specifically that they are "endowed by the Creator."
If you don't want to believe in a Creator, that's fine by me--but it means that you don't get to assert the Creator as an authority. So you'll have to find some "anywhere" other than the Declaration as a source or justification for the rights which the Declaration proclaims--because you, on your own showing, do not accept its authority.
I take it, then, that you are a young-earth creationist?
/Don't make me spell it out. You well know what I mean.
913![]() |
haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:10:28pm |
re: #907 shortshrift
I am merely making the observation that it is disingenuous as hell for people who make a point of announcing their lack of a belief in a Creator--note that I have not specified said Creator in any way, shape, or form--to cite to the Declaration's "unalienable rights" language, since that language specifically does cite to a Creator as the source of them.
Your flaw is in selecting an awfully convenient level of detail for "Creator". If I hold that humans are the product of natural processes operating over a sufficiently long period of time, then how is it hypocritical of me to hold that our rights, along with our values, morals, and so forth are created by the same process? So perhaps "Creator" can refer to evolution.
Too broad an application? Thomas Jefferson referred to himself as a Christian. Perhaps only Christians should be able to cite the Declaration. But this may still be too broad, if Jefferson's contemporary critics are to be believed. Most of those Christians would, under your close standards and attention to detail, be regarded as hypocrites, and rightly derided as disingenuous as Hell for seeking to take comfort in a document which obviously refers to the nameless, faceless "Creator" of the Deists.
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haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:16:46pm |
PIMF. Shortshrift, disregard. Re-posted, but corrected, for the convenience of those who surf by searching.
re: #783 buzzsawmonkey
I am merely making the observation that it is disingenuous as hell for people who make a point of announcing their lack of a belief in a Creator--note that I have not specified said Creator in any way, shape, or form--to cite to the Declaration's "unalienable rights" language, since that language specifically does cite to a Creator as the source of them.
Your flaw is in selecting an awfully convenient level of detail for "Creator". If I hold that humans are the product of natural processes operating over a sufficiently long period of time, then how is it hypocritical of me to hold that our rights, along with our values, morals, and so forth are created by the same process? So perhaps "Creator" can refer to evolution.
Too broad an application? Thomas Jefferson referred to himself as a Christian. Perhaps only Christians should be able to cite the Declaration. But this may still be too broad, if Jefferson's contemporary critics are to be believed. Most of those Christians would, under your close standards and attention to detail, be regarded as hypocrites, and rightly derided as disingenuous as Hell for seeking to take comfort in a document which obviously refers to the nameless, faceless "Creator" of the Deists.
916![]() |
haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 1:21:26pm |
re: #914 buzzsawmonkey
I don't have any idea where or how you came up with that, but--no.
Your inflexible and literal interpretation of documents seems to be limited to a few favorites. Are you rolling through the book of Genesis with a fat black magic marker, taking the parts you wish to rely upon, while discarding the parts which do not comport with whatever point you wish to make? It sounds like you are trying to play both ends against the middle.
918![]() |
haakondahl Sun, Jul 19, 2009 2:38:28pm |
Buzzsawmonkey--
What has gotten my back up is having you call me a liar. "Hypocrite" and "Disingenuous" to be exact. What's more, you have the gall to tell me that I don't get to cite the Declarationof Independence? Just what sort of second-class citizen status do you have in mind for me? I would clearly not be welcome at a discussion you moderate, because I don't pass the religious test.
You are simply going to have to get used to the fact that there are more than one varieties of conservatism. There is a huge swath of people who will vote for Republican candidates if not for the creepy hive-mind mentality toward religion.
I am agnostic. I am quite well acquainted with deferring questions of ultimate origin as "not relevant to the topic at hand". Believe me when I say that I have no philosophical problem with simply placing the origin of rights beyond the grubby fingers of fallible mankind, and accepting the reality that those rights are not for any person to diddle with at whim.
So stop telling me that I "don't get to cite the Declaration". Perhaps you refuse to understand, or perhaps you are incapable of understanding how this is completely consistent, but this is your problem, not mine. I cannot describe how sneering and condescending you sound. It's really quite rude, and surprising coming from you.
919![]() |
shortshrift Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:03:06pm |
re: #911 buzzsawmonkey
Thank you for your response. I hope this reply does not arrive too late.
You say:
"If you don't want to believe in a Creator, that's fine by me--but it means that you don't get to assert the Creator as an authority. So you'll have to find some "anywhere" other than the Declaration as a source or justification for the rights which the Declaration proclaims--because you, on your own showing, do not accept its authority."
No. I never, never assert the Creator as an authority. The authority of the Creator is not identical with the authority of the Declaration. As I have said the operative concept is the assertion of the rights. There is no need in logic or politics to claim a "source" for these rights other than the Declaration.
I think the Ten Commandments may be followed as the law, without believing that they were authored by God. I do not think life, liberty and happiness were authored by God, but I pursue them anyway.
920![]() |
shortshrift Sun, Jul 19, 2009 3:31:51pm |
Further to my last.
Benjamin Franklin inserted the words "self-evident" - probably to avoid the issue of human authority. One man's authority can be another man's fraud. Allowing for man to be endowed with rights by something superior to man , is a way of affirming that all men are equal in their owning of these rights. An essential justice is being asserted. No man, on any other man's authority, may alienate these rights.
It is a wonderful document, one of mankind's best artifacts.
922![]() |
haakondahl Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:27:34pm |
re: #921 buzzsawmonkey
Frustrated, not hurt feelings. Well, one thing we can each say is that we give a damn, eh? This stuff is simple and clear to me. I understand what you're saying completely, and I don't think you understand my POV at all. That's frustrating.
Agreed about the creepiness of the anti-religionists as well.
Also, I hold this truth to be self-evident, that it was ShortShrift who endowed us with the line about two authorities. Not me. But I agree. I am trying to think of an example which is not so frivolous or flippant as the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus, but it's difficult. At least at this hour. Another time, perhaps.
You're good people and I'm glad to know you. I just got mad at you is all. I shouldn't have said 'incapable'--that was low.
See you around the threads--take care.
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