Pat Buchanan: It’s All About the White Men

Politics • Views: 5,488

Here’s Pat Buchanan, ranting about Sonia Sotomayor and making conservatives look wonderful again, in that special way he has.

Youtube Video

Maddow: Why do you think it is that of the 110 Supreme Court Justices we’ve had in this country, 108 of them have been white?

Buchanan: Well, I think white men were 100% of the people who wrote the Constitution, 100% of the people who signed the Declaration of Independence, 100% of the people who died at Gettysburg and Vicksburg, probably close to 100% of the people who died at Normandy. This has been a country built, basically, by white folks in this country, who were 90% of the entire nation in 1960, when I was growing up, Rachel. And the other 10% were African Americans who had been discriminated against. That’s why.

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743 comments
1 Athens Runaway  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:36:38pm

God I hate paelo-cons.

2 yochanan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:37:26pm

to RAT PUKEANAN jews aren't white at least off white.

3 Truck Monkey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:38:46pm

Of course MSNBC will be giving us liberal doses of crazy uncle Pat. They do it by design.

4 saberry0530  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:38:48pm

Dear Pat,
GAFC!

( get a fuckin clue)

5 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:38:50pm

Well, if he did anything, he made me ever more convinced:

If I was a Senator, I'd vote for Sotomayor, and I'd now have the satisfaction if spitting in his eye by doing so. What an asshole. GOP Senators should condemn this cretin by name. Call the denunciation the "I'm not with Stupid" speech.

6 Occasional Reader  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:39:05pm
Well, I think white men were 100% of the people who wrote the Constitution, 100% of the people who signed the Declaration of Independence

Yeah, Pat, it was really darned inconsiderate of those black folks not to participate in that stuff, wasn't it?

Of course, most of them would have had to... you know, escape slavery and so forth first.

7 Taqyia2Me  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:40:39pm

This'll take the harsh spotlight off the "Free" "Healthcare" for "All" pile of steaming fecal matter being forced down the throat of America.
Almost as if the marxists are paying for this kind of diversion.

8 rightside  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:40:45pm

Like a bad dream, this guy just won't go away. He'll be in the media at least 10-15 more years, I'm guessing.

9 rightside  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:41:29pm

re: #7 Taqyia2Me

To be fair, only 11 or so people watch pmsnbc.

10 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:41:47pm
11 Occasional Reader  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:42:08pm

re: #8 rightside

Like a bad dream, this guy just won't go away. He'll be in the media at least 10-15 more years, I'm guessing.

And that's because, to the MSM, he is absolutely perfect for the part. A Minstrel Show version of "conservative".

12 rightside  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:42:50pm

re: #11 Occasional Reader

Pity

13 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:43:52pm
14 Truck Monkey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:44:07pm

re: #11 Occasional Reader

And that's because, to the MSM, he is absolutely perfect for the part. A Minstrel Show version of "conservative".

He appears all too often on Scarborough and Hannity as well. God I can't stand the guy. He must have an attractive appearance fee.

15 freetoken  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:44:28pm

There are several here who would like to shift blame from Pat to the liberals/marxists/MSM/etc....

However, a quick perusal of blogs where Pat's columns are posted will find that he has plenty of supporters from self declared "conservatives."

Pat Buchanan has been representing the "conservative" viewpoint in the US for 4 decades.

This is not Maddow's fault.

Pat Buchanan is a product of American Conservatism. American Conservatism is in some small part a product of Pat Buchanan.

Own it.

16 Taqyia2Me  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:44:29pm

re: #9 rightside

To be fair, only 11 or so people watch pmsnbc.

And they're all smoking the crack rock.

17 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:44:31pm

re: #6 Occasional Reader

Yeah, Pat, it was really darned inconsiderate of those black folks not to participate in that stuff, wasn't it?

Of course, most of them would have had to... you know, escape slavery and so forth first.

Crispus Attucks (and the others involved in the Boston Massacre) certainly played their part in bringing about our independence from England

18 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:45:33pm

re: #14 Truck Monkey

He appears all too often on Scarborough and Hannity as well. God I can't stand the guy. He must have an attractive appearance fee.

If its anything more than a buck-fifty, they're getting hosed.

19 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:46:47pm

And Buchanan is wrong about Vicksburg:

General Grant had two regiments of freed slaves stationed at Milliken's Bend north of Vicksburg. They defeated a Rebel attempt to relieve the city at considerable cost and their valor actually reduced the racism of many Union officers who heard of their stand.

Source: None Died in Vain: The Sage of the American Civil War, by Robert Leckie. HarperCollins, 1990

20 Truck Monkey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:48:03pm

re: #18 SasquatchOnSteroids

If its anything more than a buck-fifty, they're getting hosed.

They must just pay him with Lattes on Scarborough. Still too much as far as I'm concerned. Maybe he'll make an appearance at my sons Bar Mitzvah. I am busy writing checks out for that right now!

21 SteveC  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:48:09pm
This has been a country built, basically, by white folks in this country, who were 90% of the entire nation in 1960, when I was growing up, Rachel. And the other 10% were African Americans who had been discriminated against. That’s why.

It's a tradition, Rachel, as old as the country itself!

Jeebus, Patrick.... just shut up!

22 MandyManners  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:48:45pm

re: #10 buzzsawmonkey

Buchanan and Maddow are both loathesome.

Loathsome toads.

23 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:50:17pm
24 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:51:02pm

"Wise Latina women have more babies north of the border than they do in Mexico and twice as many here as American women.

As almost all immigrants are now Third World people of color, they qualify for ethnic preferences in hiring and promotions and admissions to college over the children of Americans

All of this would have astounded and appalled the Founding Fathers, who after all, created America -- as they declared loud and clear in the Constitution -- "for ourselves and our posterity."

- Pat Buchanan

25 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:51:20pm

Raise your hand if you think Abigail Adams and Mercy Otis Warren would have done a fine job sitting in on the Declaration or the Constitutional conventions.

I also think that the Founding Fathers would have had nothing to do with Buchananuts.

26 SteveC  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:51:22pm

re: #22 MandyManners

Loathsome toads.

On behalf of the International Fraternal Order of Loathsome Toads, we vigorously protest!

27 kynna  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:51:30pm

Only Pat Buchanan could respond to a stupid question with a even dumber answer.

28 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:51:42pm
29 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:52:54pm

re: #24 NJDhockeyfan

"Wise Latina women have more babies north of the border than they do in Mexico and twice as many here as American women.

As almost all immigrants are now Third World people of color, they qualify for ethnic preferences in hiring and promotions and admissions to college over the children of Americans

All of this would have astounded and appalled the Founding Fathers, who after all, created America -- as they declared loud and clear in the Constitution -- "for ourselves and our posterity."

- Pat Buchanan

If they had really felt this way, they would have passed laws creating an aristocracy, instead of deliberately working against it with laws against entailing and primogeniture.

30 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:52:59pm

re: #28 buzzsawmonkey

It'd be fucking nice if Maddow--Keith Olbermann's grievance-lesbian protege--could lose the twisted smirk on her face.

buzz ... she is bitter ... maybe not a clinger ... but bitter and what has she had to say about Obama and gay rights ... they pick and choose ... swirlers ...

31 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:53:08pm

re: #24 NJDhockeyfan

"Wise Latina women have more babies north of the border than they do in Mexico and twice as many here as American women.

As almost all immigrants are now Third World people of color, they qualify for ethnic preferences in hiring and promotions and admissions to college over the children of Americans

All of this would have astounded and appalled the Founding Fathers, who after all, created America -- as they declared loud and clear in the Constitution -- "for ourselves and our posterity."

- Pat Buchanan

The Stupid, it burns!

32 Truck Monkey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:53:37pm

re: #28 buzzsawmonkey

It'd be fucking nice if Maddow--Keith Olbermann's grievance-lesbian protege--could lose the twisted smirk on her face.

Tough to do when your sitting on a pocket rocket.
/I am so sorry.

33 MandyManners  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:54:21pm

re: #26 SteveC

On behalf of the International Fraternal Order of Loathsome Toads, we vigorously protest!

I should be on the look-out for process server?

34 MandyManners  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:54:42pm

re: #28 buzzsawmonkey

It'd be fucking nice if Maddow--Keith Olbermann's grievance-lesbian protege--could lose the twisted smirk on her face.

Got sand in your shorts?

35 SteveC  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:56:16pm

re: #33 MandyManners

I should be on the look-out for process server?

No, we took up a collection and came up with $12.15. Lot of Toads have been laid off lately.

Maybe later.

36 MandyManners  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:56:51pm

re: #35 SteveC

No, we took up a collection and came up with $12.15. Lot of Toads have been laid off lately.

Maybe later.

Two bad these two still have jobs.

37 MandyManners  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:57:02pm

*sigh*

38 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:57:16pm

Would it be wrong (or against LGF rules) to wish that a meteor (or a chunk of frozen toilet water from a passing airliner) would land on Buchanan's head?

///

39 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:57:42pm

re: #28 buzzsawmonkey

It'd be fucking nice if Maddow--Keith Olbermann's grievance-lesbian protege--could lose the twisted smirk on her face.

She's Einstein for the moment. She got Pat to say things.
That isn't really hard, but they'll be backslapping each other over some gruel I can't pronounce in the break room.
You da man, Rachel, You da man.

And Pat in the back, just glad someone will hang with him.

40 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:57:55pm

Buchanon should remember that until around 1900 the Irish weren't considered white.

41 NelsFree  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:58:09pm

re: #15 freetoken
While Pat has his supporters, and he has been a Conservative, it is my opinion that many Conservatives would like, and are trying to, disown him as a Conservative SPOX.

42 outsidephilly  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:58:13pm

re: #37 MandyManners


How's mom today?

43 Truck Monkey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:58:14pm

re: #38 talon_262

Would it be wrong (or against LGF rules) to wish that a meteor (or a chunk of frozen toilet water from a passing airliner) would land on Buchanan's head?

///

What a waste of perfectly good frozen toilet water!

44 I Need A Bigger Gun  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:58:34pm

Jesus, would somebody PLEASE shut him up! But hey, Hannity still likes him. Which is one reason I'm not crazy about Hannity.

45 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:58:45pm

re: #33 MandyManners

I should be on the look-out for process server?

No, they'll just send over their spokesman:

Youtube Video

ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!

46 albusteve  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:58:50pm

re: #38 talon_262

Would it be wrong (or against LGF rules) to wish that a meteor (or a chunk of frozen toilet water from a passing airliner) would land on Buchanan's head?

///

yes, but I'd like to pound him with the Temptations until he is comotose

47 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:59:09pm

re: #43 Truck Monkey

What a waste of perfectly good frozen toilet water!

Zing !

48 itellu3times  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:59:48pm

re: #19 Dark_Falcon

Thanks for that, I was pretty sure something like that was the case but didn't have the facts.

49 MandyManners  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:59:52pm

re: #40 Jim in Virginia

Buchanon should remember that until around 1900 the Irish weren't considered white.

I've heard that "NO DOGS OR IRISH" was an oft-seen sign on shop doors.

50 Truck Monkey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:59:53pm

re: #44 I Need A Bigger Gun

Jesus, would somebody PLEASE shut him up! But hey, Hannity still likes him. Which is one reason I'm not crazy about Hannity.

I don't like Hannity either. The man is in love with his own voice.

51 Mithrax  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 6:59:54pm

Wow.

I mean shit, I've said some awfully stupid things in my life, but man oh man, Pat sure makes a career out of it.

It's not that people will buy the shit coming out of his mouth, it's that people DO buy the shit coming out of his mouth.

52 MandyManners  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:00:19pm

re: #42 outsidephilly

Better, thank you.

53 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:00:29pm

re: #38 talon_262

Would it be wrong (or against LGF rules) to wish that a meteor (or a chunk of frozen toilet water from a passing airliner) would land on Buchanan's head?

///


Much better if the frozen toilet water thawed before it hit him.

54 itellu3times  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:00:30pm

re: #38 talon_262

Would it be wrong (or against LGF rules) to wish that a meteor (or a chunk of frozen toilet water from a passing airliner) would land on Buchanan's head?

///

You mean, another one?
/would explain a lot

55 NelsFree  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:01:44pm

re: #32 Truck Monkey

Tough to do when your sitting on a pocket rocket.
/I am so sorry.

No, that explains when her voice quavers, just a bit. Watch for when she bites her lip.
/s
No, I can't post thi-
argh! Hit wrong button

56 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:01:50pm
57 freetoken  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:02:03pm

re: #41 NelsFree

There are many self-described "conservatives" who are uncomfortable with Buchanan. What I find though is most of these are either the post-9/11 converts, or the more contemporary religious (younger people who have religious beliefs that are a bit more radical than the good ol' boy churches.)

58 albusteve  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:02:26pm

doin fine on cloud nine

Youtube Video
59 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:03:05pm

re: #49 MandyManners

I've heard that "NO DOGS OR IRISH" was an oft-seen sign on shop doors.

That was one of the signs. The other one said "Help Wanted, No Irish Need Apply." Nasty bigotry behind signs like that.

60 MandyManners  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:03:12pm

re: #56 buzzsawmonkey

Why is the fact that Rachel Maddow is a Proud Lesbian the business of anyone except her bed partner? Because it is supposed to give her some kind of unassailable bona fides, just like the "wise Latina woman" stuff was supposed to give the current SC nominee bona fides--to the right audience, and screw everyone else. Maddow's being a lesbian is part and parcel to her qualifications for her job, rather than wholly incidental to it as it should be.

Of course Maddow is avidly defending Sotomayor, regardless of her ability--she is exactly the same as Sotomayor.

Me, I accept Sotomayor as the least worst nominee we can reasonably expect from the "I One." And she's got the votes, so ipso facto she's "qualified." So I'm eating this dish; doesn't mean I have to like it. And no amount of Maddow's chocolate sauce is going to make ice cream out of a shit sundae.

Not even a cherry and some sprinkles!

61 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:03:16pm

re: #56 buzzsawmonkey

Why is the fact that Rachel Maddow is a Proud Lesbian the business of anyone except her bed partner? Because it is supposed to give her some kind of unassailable bona fides, just like the "wise Latina woman" stuff was supposed to give the current SC nominee bona fides--to the right audience, and screw everyone else. Maddow's being a lesbian is part and parcel to her qualifications for her job, rather than wholly incidental to it as it should be.

Of course Maddow is avidly defending Sotomayor, regardless of her ability--she is exactly the same as Sotomayor.

Me, I accept Sotomayor as the least worst nominee we can reasonably expect from the "I One." And she's got the votes, so ipso facto she's "qualified." So I'm eating this dish; doesn't mean I have to like it. And no amount of Maddow's chocolate sauce is going to make ice cream out of a shit sundae.

What makes you think that's chocolate sauce?

/shudders

62 MandyManners  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:04:33pm

re: #59 Dark_Falcon

That was one of the signs. The other one said "Help Wanted, No Irish Need Apply." Nasty bigotry behind signs like that.

Has Buchanan forgotten that?

63 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:04:42pm

This should be a serious wake up call to conservatives in general and the GOP in particular (although I'm sure it will be ignored). This isn't just lefty networks who wheel him out as an example of right wing intolerance. Fox News has him on all the time. Drudge links to his articles which are posted on a lot of mainstream conservative sites. He and his wife appeared at the last CPAC convention along with other intolerant bigots such as Anne Coulter.

This isn't a matter of "reframing" the issue or changing the window dressing. Conservatives and the GOP need to clean house. Even Obama's trillion dollar deficits isn't going to sweep the GOP back into power. Adapt or be gone.

64 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:05:22pm

re: #62 MandyManners

Has Buchanan forgotten that?

Blind, willful ignorance...

65 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:06:09pm

re: #64 talon_262

Blind, willful ignorance...

Plus a generous dollop of sheer stupidity.

66 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:07:35pm
67 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:07:54pm

re: #57 freetoken

There are many self-described "conservatives" who are uncomfortable with Buchanan. What I find though is most of these are either the post-9/11 converts, or the more contemporary religious (younger people who have religious beliefs that are a bit more radical than the good ol' boy churches.)

I think that's part of the problem. Those who are uncomfortable with him don't speak up. This clip has been all over the lefty sites all week. Conservatives haven't linked to it (unless you want to count stormfront) because they'd rather sweep this ugliness under the rug and hope that nobody notices.
The time for house cleaning is now! We'll be coming up on midterms soon, after that a general election. Sadly, nobody is going to take up the task.

68 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:07:57pm

It can be found on both sides, and it's equally heinous and odious on either one:

WaPo Mag Editor: 'Any Latina Could Make a Better Decision Than a White Man'

[Link: newsbusters.org...]

Excerpt from CNN's Campbell Brown:
____________________________________________________________

BROWN: Words chosen very carefully now. Cathy, if she weren't sitting before this committee right now, and with so much at stake, would she really be backing off of that statement?

CATHY AREU, "WASHINGTON POST" MAGAZINE: No. As a wise Latina, I can tell you, no, she's not backing down. And she probably would want to say, "Not only do I mean a wise Latina, I meant any Latina could make a better decision than a white man could."

BROWN: OK.

AREU: I'm just saying, I'm just saying. It's not just in her mind. She may not say it, but maybe she's thinking that.
____________________________________________________________

Sal: I don't know if Sotomayer is thinking that, but it's a lead pipe cinch that the Washington Post's Cathy Areu is thinking that.

/Yep, it's the Latina Pat Buchanan!

69 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:09:09pm
70 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:09:10pm

Herr Buchanan can take a long walk off a short pier.

'cept I think PETA would be pissed, Sea Kitten abuse.

71 NelsFree  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:09:24pm

Okay, Pat Buchanan needs to stop his public speaking engagements. Unfortunately, he does not choose to stop. H'm, with what can we entice him to stay home?
1. Upgrade dial-up to Cable modem
2. Arrange trophy wife swap
3. Give hime a Chevy Volt ( with current range, he can't really go anywhere)
4. Deliver books on gardening to his doorstep
5. Leave a kitten in a basket on his doorstep, with a note saying, "nobody else loves me, either"
Additions?

72 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:09:40pm

re: #62 MandyManners

Has Buchanan forgotten that?

I'm sure he hasn't. I suspect there is some compensation going on with him, for a number of his, um, shortcomings.

73 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:09:51pm

re: #69 buzzsawmonkey

Gotta go, gang. Keep things on the boil until tomorrow.

buzz .. good night .. you are the best ...

74 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:10:11pm

re: #40 Jim in Virginia

Buchanon should remember that until around 1900 the Irish weren't considered whitehuman.

FTFY...

75 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:10:43pm
76 solomonpanting  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:10:56pm

So, voting against Sotomayor would be racist? But, 46 Dems voting against Clarence Thomas wasn't.
Ye 'ol double standard.

77 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:11:43pm

re: #68 Salamantis

It can be found on both sides, and it's equally heinous and odious on either one:

WaPo Mag Editor: 'Any Latina Could Make a Better Decision Than a White Man'

[Link: newsbusters.org...]

Excerpt from CNN's Campbell Brown:
__________________________________________________ __________

BROWN: Words chosen very carefully now. Cathy, if she weren't sitting before this committee right now, and with so much at stake, would she really be backing off of that statement?

CATHY AREU, "WASHINGTON POST" MAGAZINE: No. As a wise Latina, I can tell you, no, she's not backing down. And she probably would want to say, "Not only do I mean a wise Latina, I meant any Latina could make a better decision than a white man could."

BROWN: OK.

AREU: I'm just saying, I'm just saying. It's not just in her mind. She may not say it, but maybe she's thinking that.
__________________________________________________ __________

Sal: I don't know if Sotomayer is thinking that, but it's a lead pipe cinch that the Washington Post's Cathy Areu is thinking that.

/Yep, it's the Latina Pat Buchanan!

As usual, Sal, you're right on the money. Great find!

78 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:12:12pm

re: #71 NelsFree

Okay, Pat Buchanan needs to stop his public speaking engagements. Unfortunately, he does not choose to stop. H'm, with what can we entice him to stay home?
1. Upgrade dial-up to Cable modem
2. Arrange trophy wife swap
3. Give hime a Chevy Volt ( with current range, he can't really go anywhere)
4. Deliver books on gardening to his doorstep
5. Leave a kitten in a basket on his doorstep, with a note saying, "nobody else loves me, either"
Additions?

To engage in an Irish stereotype, keep him oversupplied with an excess of cask-aged single malt whiskey.

79 The Shadow Do  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:12:25pm

In 2000 Buchannan garnered 0.4% of the vote. Why is he not some obscure figure in a neonazi shrine somewhere.

80 NelsFree  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:12:32pm

re: #69 buzzsawmonkey

Bye, Buzz, keep 'em comin', keep on hummin'!
/Channelling some WW2 defense posters

81 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:13:56pm

re: #71 NelsFree

Okay, Pat Buchanan needs to stop his public speaking engagements. Unfortunately, he does not choose to stop. H'm, with what can we entice him to stay home?
1. Upgrade dial-up to Cable modem
2. Arrange trophy wife swap
3. Give hime a Chevy Volt ( with current range, he can't really go anywhere)
4. Deliver books on gardening to his doorstep
5. Leave a kitten in a basket on his doorstep, with a note saying, "nobody else loves me, either"
Additions?

Can't do that fifth one. I'm not comfortable leaving a kitten with an asshole like that. It might get hurt and then I'd never forgive myself.

82 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:14:31pm

re: #71 NelsFree

Okay, Pat Buchanan needs to stop his public speaking engagements. Unfortunately, he does not choose to stop. H'm, with what can we entice him to stay home?
1. Upgrade dial-up to Cable modem
2. Arrange trophy wife swap
3. Give hime a Chevy Volt ( with current range, he can't really go anywhere)
4. Deliver books on gardening to his doorstep
5. Leave a kitten in a basket on his doorstep, with a note saying, "nobody else loves me, either"
Additions?

Putting him in an improvised bondage outfit like Dolly, Lily, and Hanoi Jane did to Dabney Coleman in 9-to-5 to keep him in the house...

/

83 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:14:46pm

Mandela won the Arthur Ash award for courage tonight..
They showed a film about him and Condi was in the front row and had tears running down her cheeks.. Very Touching....

84 MandyManners  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:15:06pm

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

Can't do that fifth one. I'm not comfortable leaving a kitten with an asshole like that. It might get hurt and then I'd never forgive myself.

Hitler was nice to his dog.

85 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:15:07pm

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

Can't do that fifth one. I'm not comfortable leaving a kitten with an asshole like that. It might get hurt and then I'd never forgive myself.

Are you saying that Pat Buchanan might have once been prone to torturing small animals as a child, or that he never stopped?

86 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:15:31pm

re: #71 NelsFree

Okay, Pat Buchanan needs to stop his public speaking engagements. Unfortunately, he does not choose to stop. H'm, with what can we entice him to stay home?
1. Upgrade dial-up to Cable modem
2. Arrange trophy wife swap
3. Give hime a Chevy Volt ( with current range, he can't really go anywhere)
4. Deliver books on gardening to his doorstep
5. Leave a kitten in a basket on his doorstep, with a note saying, "nobody else loves me, either"
Additions?

6. Drop him on an uninhabited remote island. Explain to him that he is in charge there for life and the island is only populated with white men.

87 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:15:54pm

re: #78 Salamantis

To engage in an Irish stereotype, keep him oversupplied with an excess of cask-aged single malt whiskey.

Hell, that's too good for him...give him the cheap-ass rotgut.

88 DistantThunder  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:16:19pm

White is a 4-letter word. Get used to it. Only the left can use it as a pejorative term. No white person can use the term in polite company. Pat knows better, but thinks he speaking truth to power. But at the end of the day, it still doesn't solve the #1 reason that minorities lag behind whites - education - and I blame that on the monopoly education system.

It was a trap, a red herring, and Pat fell right into it, of course. Holder wanted the "cowards" to speak out on race - hoping for this exact result, someone to demonize, rightly so in this case.

89 DistantThunder  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:16:40pm

re: #76 solomonpanting

So, voting against Sotomayor would be racist? But, 46 Dems voting against Clarence Thomas wasn't.
Ye 'ol double standard.

Touche...

90 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:16:46pm

re: #81 Dark_Falcon #2 is out too, not gonna trade him my trophy wife.

91 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:17:16pm
92 DistantThunder  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:17:35pm

re: #83 HoosierHoops

Mandela won the Arthur Ash award for courage tonight..
They showed a film about him and Condi was in the front row and had tears running down her cheeks.. Very Touching....

Condi's tears don't count as authentic.

93 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:17:47pm

re: #82 talon_262
Brain bleach, please.

94 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:18:10pm

re: #85 Salamantis

Are you saying that Pat Buchanan might have once been prone to torturing small animals as a child, or that he never stopped?

Maybe he did that, but what I was really saying is that he is too much of an egomanic to take good care of a small, needy, animal.

95 NelsFree  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:18:29pm

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

Can't do that fifth one. I'm not comfortable leaving a kitten with an asshole like that. It might get hurt and then I'd never forgive myself.

Kittehs can melt even the coldest heart. Still, okay, let's substitute:
Burmese Python (hugs you back)
Armadillo (practically indestructible)
Rock Hyrax (if you saw "Madagascar", that one)
Others?

96 freetoken  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:18:43pm

re: #67 Killgore Trout


The time for house cleaning is now! We'll be coming up on midterms soon, after that a general election. Sadly, nobody is going to take up the task.

For American "conservatism" to shed its racist/xenophobic elements is a large challenge.

Yes, there are many Americans who don't adhere to the strong progressive leanings of the new political leaders, yet that is hardly a solid starting point for a new reactionary political force, exactly because the Pat Buchanans of American Conservatism still hang on and are influencing the political conversation.

I for one believe that xenophobia is a tragedy that is too easily embraced. Fear of the other lies at the root of all sorts of nastiness.

97 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:20:05pm

Lefty moonbats are dangerous because they don't know what they are doing.
Guys like Buchanan are dangerous because they do know what they are doing.

98 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:20:09pm

re: #86 Pianobuff

6. Drop him on an uninhabited remote island. Explain to him that he is in charge there for life and the island is only populated with white men.

So he can be a 'manly man' among other 'manly men', and only other 'manly men'?

/Channeling the SNL Belushi skit about the pirate ship The Raging Queen

99 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:20:11pm

What about white women? ... hahahaha ...

I have bid on three contracts in the last month .... I keep getting done in by a black guy ... this is in one of my new companies where I am majority owner ... white women are not classified as I guess a high minority as black guys ... I am not sure but I think he keeps getting some credit for being a black guy .... I don't understand this whole minority stuff as these new companies are the first for me outside of the farms ... with our farms we never ask for any type of "classification" as we don't ask for anything we just do our business and sell our product ... but these new companies are something that I have applied to government contracts on ... I guess I need to learn the workings of government contracts ...

But with the new Obama administration I am even wondering if having a business is even worth the work ... I am still game and hope for the best ...

100 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:20:52pm

re: #95 NelsFree

Kittehs can melt even the coldest heart. Still, okay, let's substitute:
Burmese Python (hugs you back)
Armadillo (practically indestructible)
Rock Hyrax (if you saw "Madagascar", that one)
Others?


Sabretooth tiger.
Here, kitty kitty.

101 NelsFree  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:21:21pm

re: #91 Iron Fist


The time has come for black cries of discrimination take their rightful places with those of the Irish and the Italians. Things of the past. And that means, among other things, that it is time Affirmative Action is put away, its task accomplished. Oh, things still aren't perfect. They never will be. If we were all perfectly equal, it would be possible for me to be President. We all know, all kidding aside, that that was never in the cards for me.


So, can we have the Congressional Black Caucus declared a racist organization?

102 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:21:29pm

re: #95 NelsFree

Kittehs can melt even the coldest heart. Still, okay, let's substitute:
Burmese Python (hugs you back)
Armadillo (practically indestructible)
Rock Hyrax (if you saw "Madagascar", that one)
Others?

Anaconda. Lives in South America, so by smuggling it in, we could introduce Pat to an illegal immigrant that would really have a crush on him.

103 DistantThunder  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:22:15pm

Conservatism is less racist than progressivism. The progressives were the eugenicists like HG Wells, quote:

‘We want fewer and better children . . . and we cannot make the social life and the world-peace we are determined to make, with the ill-bred, ill-trained swarms of inferior citizens that you inflict on us.”

That ghastly message appeared in the introduction to Margaret Sanger’s 1922 book, The Pivot of Civilization.

104 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:23:16pm

re: #83 HoosierHoops

Mandela won the Arthur Ash award for courage tonight..
They showed a film about him and Condi was in the front row and had tears running down her cheeks.. Very Touching....

While I give Mandela some props for fighting against SA's apartheid and trying to bring his nation together after apartheid was consigned to the dustbin of history, I'll never abide his Communistic tendencies and sympathies.

105 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:23:29pm

Remember the Rock Ridge townspeople negotiations in Blazing Saddles to settle the railroad workers there in return for their help against the forces of Hedy (That's HEDLEY!) Lamarr??

"Okay, we'll take the ni**ers and the chinks, but we won't take the Irish!"

106 Macker  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:23:55pm

re: #101 NelsFree

10,000 updings!

107 Macker  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:24:56pm

re: #104 talon_262

While I give Mandela some props for fighting against SA's apartheid and trying to bring his nation together after apartheid was consigned to the dustbin of history, I'll never abide his Communistic tendencies and sympathies.

And from what I understand, Winnie was even worse of a DFC than Nelson was!

108 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:25:01pm

re: #103 DistantThunder

Conservatism is less racist than progressivism. The progressives were the eugenicists like HG Wells, quote:

Very true. Sanger was a nasty racist, who stopped pushing the racial angle because its adoption by the Nazis caused it to lose favor in the US by the late 30's. Pivot was her most influential book, but her 1938 autobiography only mentions it once.

109 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:25:07pm

What counts. Bill Whittles masterpiece Tribes.

Especially for any Lizards who have not yet read this.

Race has nothing to do with this – precisely nothing. The mobs of murdering Hutus and swarms of slaughtering Serbs are as different racially as it is possible to be, and they are cut from precisely the same cloth.

I know this is so because there have been murdering scumbags of every stripe and color in the long history of the human race – which is depressing – and that these animals, at any given time, represent only a small percentage of the majority of people, also of every stripe and color – which is not. There is no corner on virtue, and no outpost of depravity. Human hearts are indistinguishable and interchangeable. Anyone who claims otherwise is, without further argument or statements necessary, a complete God-damned idiot.

Now, with that said – have we all heard that loud and clear? – there are light-years of difference in how various Tribes will behave.

110 David Simon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:25:18pm

re: #84 MandyManners

Hitler was nice to his dog.

Until he killed it.

111 albusteve  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:25:21pm

re: #105 Salamantis

Remember the Rock Ridge townspeople negotiations in Blazing Saddles to settle the railroad workers there in return for their help against the forces of Hedy (That's HEDLEY!) Lamarr??

"Okay, we'll take the ni**ers and the chinks, but we won't take the Irish!"

I do...art mimics life

112 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:25:57pm
113 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:26:19pm

re: #105 Salamantis

Remember the Rock Ridge townspeople negotiations in Blazing Saddles to settle the railroad workers there in return for their help against the forces of Hedy (That's HEDLEY!) Lamarr??

"Okay, we'll take the ni**ers and the chinks, but we won't take the Irish!"

Classic Mel Brooks humor. I love that movie!

114 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:26:38pm

re: #96 freetoken

For American "conservatism" to shed its racist/xenophobic elements is a large challenge.

Yes, there are many Americans who don't adhere to the strong progressive leanings of the new political leaders, yet that is hardly a solid starting point for a new reactionary political force, exactly because the Pat Buchanans of American Conservatism still hang on and are influencing the political conversation.

I for one believe that xenophobia is a tragedy that is too easily embraced. Fear of the other lies at the root of all sorts of nastiness.

I was talking with my wife a few nights ago about perceptions of conservatives relative to race.

We discussed this thought question.....

If conservatives were so anti-minority and wanted to stay in power one way to accomplish that would be through to eliminate the offspring of minorities.

No minorities, no problem....right?

But.... conservatives instead of doing that often speak out (at least the pro-life portion) that babies should be born, not aborted. Now that's a little counter-intuitive to a movement that's supposed to dislike minorities so much. Talk like that will lose future elections if the demographic voter split remains unchanged in the future.

On the other hand, disproportionate numbers of minority babies are killed through programs/facilities/etc supported by liberals.

I'm still wrapping my head around this.

115 NelsFree  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:26:55pm

re: #102 Dark_Falcon

Anaconda. Lives in South America, so by smuggling it in, we could introduce Pat to an illegal immigrant that would really have a crush on him.

We have a winner! Plus, all other nominations have been, um, choked off.
Pat, here's your basket...
G'nite Lizards, gotta find some work to do tomorrow. People are not spending money. I've got bills to pay. Weet dweems to all.

116 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:26:57pm

Btw: I'm Irish and Native American.

/not that there's anything wrong with that...;~)

117 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:27:13pm

re: #101 NelsFree

So, can we have the Congressional Black Caucus declared a racist organization?

Where's the diversity? Where the Congressional White Caucus?

118 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:28:26pm

re: #117 jcm

Where's the diversity? Where the Congressional White Caucus?

jcm ... do I need to say it ... RACIST! ... remember ole Maxine ... we will just nationalize the oil business ... no she let that slip ... swirlers ...

119 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:28:33pm

re: #104 talon_262

While I give Mandela some props for fighting against SA's apartheid and trying to bring his nation together after apartheid was consigned to the dustbin of history, I'll never abide his Communistic tendencies and sympathies.

They showed a film of him leading South Africa's all white rugby team to the world championships...He rallied the country behind the hated white team and brought healing to his Country..
He deserved the award for courage tonight..

120 MandyManners  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:28:37pm

re: #105 Salamantis

Remember the Rock Ridge townspeople negotiations in Blazing Saddles to settle the railroad workers there in return for their help against the forces of Hedy (That's HEDLEY!) Lamarr??

"Okay, we'll take the ni**ers and the chinks, but we won't take the Irish!"

I'm resisting the urge to not post the scene of the bean supper.

121 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:28:41pm

re: #103 DistantThunder

Conservatism is less racist than progressivism. The progressives were the eugenicists like HG Wells, quote:


oh why yes, Hitler was definitely not a conservative. totally progressive. haha

122 Macker  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:29:17pm

re: #117 jcm

Where's the diversity? Where the Congressional White Caucus?

Only Demo☭rats and liberals are allowed to celebrate diversity.

123 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:29:22pm

I always have to laugh (to stop from crying) when I hear the radio ads for Townhall magazine, and Hugh Hewitt (or Medved, or whomever) talking about a "Conservative renaissance". Yeah right. More like a conservative nosedive.

124 MandyManners  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:30:22pm

re: #110 David Simon

Until he killed it.

In the bunker?

125 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:30:33pm

re: #116 Salamantis

Btw: I'm Irish and Native American.

/not that there's anything wrong with that...;~)

In fact, the liquor industry is eternally grateful that the two intermarried!

/heehee!

126 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:30:43pm

re: #120 MandyManners

I'm resisting the urge to not post the scene of the bean supper.

"Want some more beans, Mr. Taggart?"
"I'd say you boys have had enough!"

/love classic Mel Brooks

127 Macker  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:31:16pm

re: #110 David Simon

Until he killed it.

So is that what Der Führer did with that dog?

128 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:32:01pm

re: #124 MandyManners

In the bunker?

Blondie bought it in the bunker, not long before Adolf and Eva offed themselves, IIRC.

129 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:32:09pm

Speaking of racism, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned:

Another GOP Official in Hot Water
For Circulating Racist E-mails

Pull quote:

Some [of the e-mails] compared Obama to O.J. Simpson, others were about Obama taxing aspirin because "it's white and it works," while yet another discussed the First Lady. It read: "Breaking News - Playboy just offered Sarah Palin $1 million to pose nude in the January issue. Michelle Obama got the same offer from National Geographic."

Mr. Frago's e-mails also suggested that presidential solutions should now be called "nig*er-rigs."

"I'm not the only one that does it," Fargo explained when the Merced Sun Star published some of his racially-offensive emails. "I didn't originate them, they came to me and I just passed them on." Mr. Frago explaines that he's not racist because he circulates similar "jokes" about Jews, too. (Merced Sun-Star, 07-17-09)

130 David Simon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:32:19pm

re: #124 MandyManners

In the bunker?

Yep, right before he and Eva shot themselves.

131 avanti  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:32:55pm

re: #122 Macker

Only Demo☭rats and liberals are allowed to celebrate diversity.

There are caucuses for most every special interest group, even a bike caucus.

Caucus list.

132 MandyManners  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:33:01pm

re: #118 JacksonTn

jcm ... do I need to say it ... RACIST! ... remember ole Maxine ... we will just nationalize the oil business ... no she let that slip ... swirlers ...

She didn't say "nationalize". She said, "socialize". I have no idea how the people around her kept a straight face.

133 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:33:15pm

re: #129 ShanghaiEd

Speaking of racism, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned:

Another GOP Official in Hot Water
For Circulating Racist E-mails

Pull quote:

WTF!?!?!

*grrrrrrrrrrr*

134 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:33:44pm

re: #121 SpaceJesus

oh why yes, Hitler was definitely not a conservative. totally progressive. haha

Eat downdings, SpaceJesus. Hitler was neither left nor right, as America measures such things. He had the radical egalitarian (within the 'Master Race') tendencies of the left, mixed with the 'return to the past' desires of right-wing reactionaries. Hitler was in a category all his own.

135 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:33:45pm

re: #127 Macker

So is that what Der Führer did with that dog?

"A dog makes a fine meal."
Mel Gibson, in The Patriot

"A dog makes a fine last meal."
Adolph Hitler, in the bunker.

136 Macker  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:34:32pm

re: #126 talon_262

Now it's a time of great decision:
Are we to stay or up and quit?
There's no avoiding this conclusion,
Our town is turning into shiiiiiiiiiiiiit....

Youtube Video
137 MandyManners  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:34:40pm

re: #128 talon_262

Blondie bought it in the bunker, not long before Adolf and Eva offed themselves, IIRC.

re: #130 David Simon

Yep, right before he and Eva shot themselves.

The ultimate in malignant narcissism.

138 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:35:31pm

Senior U.S. diplomat to discuss increasingly defiant N. Korea in meetings with South Korean officials Monday

Republican and Democratic governors criticize health bill, saying it could become another unfunded mandate

Administration officials defended President Obama's broad health care proposals and urged a skeptical public not to judge the Democrats' overhaul until Congress writes a final version.

AHEM! Focus on Buchanan!.........he's a wacko!....mmmmmm...donuts.....

139 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:35:52pm

re: #129 ShanghaiEd

Speaking of racism, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned:

Another GOP Official in Hot Water
For Circulating Racist E-mails

Pull quote:

He's an idiot.

140 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:36:42pm

re: #131 avanti

There are caucuses for most every special interest group, even a bike caucus.

Caucus list.

Hello, avanti! I happened by a classic car show today. and took the following pictures. Though you might them:

Classic Car Show 7/19/09

141 jaunte  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:37:04pm

re: #129 ShanghaiEd


"I'm not the only one that does it," Fargo explained when the Merced Sun Star published some of his racially-offensive emails. "I didn't originate them, they came to me and I just passed them on."


That one again. An excuse that's past its sell-by date.

142 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:37:27pm

re: #135 Salamantis

"A dog makes a fine meal."
Mel Gibson, in The Patriot

"A dog makes a fine last meal."
Adolph Hitler, in the bunker.

Actually, he poisoned the dog.

143 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:38:04pm

re: #139 Ward Cleaver

He's an idiot.

OH NO! NOT ATWATER CITY!

CRAP, THERE GOES THE ENTIRE COUNTRY!

/runs off screaming

144 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:38:20pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

Eat downdings, SpaceJesus. Hitler was neither left nor right, as America measures such things. He had the radical egalitarian (within the 'Master Race') tendencies of the left, mixed with the 'return to the past' desires of right-wing reactionaries. Hitler was in a category all his own.


uh no. Hitler was motivated entirely by his desire to conserve the German master race.

145 solomonpanting  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:38:46pm

C'mon c'mon
Down-dinging do ding down
C'mon c'mon
Down-dinging do ding down
Jesus this is fun tooooo do

146 Mr Spiffy  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:39:19pm

Most of the first few comments I read , spewed venom at PB.
Is it a given that Madow is "untouchable"?
Is she so far to the Left that everything she says should be ignored?
Yeah, I know, Buchanan -- is an Anti-semite racist a-hole whose only redeeming factor is he wasn't a government funded abortion. (which says more about the character of his mother than him)
Mad(c)ow goes off on the 108 who were white?
What is the profile of those denied SC tenure Rachel?
Want to research the grilling Marshall took compared to Thomas?

147 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:39:36pm

Surely someone has posted this...I hope so. Sgt. John Beale was killed in Afghanistan....this is his funeral procession from July,11....

maybe there's still hope for this country.


wow....just wow.

148 David Simon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:39:39pm

re: #137 MandyManners

The ultimate in malignant narcissism.

Goebbels and the Mrs. one-upped him. Imagine killing your own children. shudder

149 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:40:11pm

re: #103 DistantThunder

Conservatism is less racist than progressivism. The progressives were the eugenicists like HG Wells, quote:

DT: That quote is indeed troubling. But don't you think that H.G. Wells and Margaret Sanger in the 1920s is a pretty small sample on which to base a blanket indictment of progressivism?

You'd really be concerned by what some conservatives were writing in the 1920s. Or maybe not. :)

150 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:40:17pm

re: #122 Macker

Only Demo☭rats and liberals are allowed to celebrate diversity.

I celebrate diversity.... I my own way.....

151 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:41:53pm

re: #144 SpaceJesus

uh no. Hitler was motivated entirely by his desire to conserve the German master race.

I'd say that self-aggrandizement played a stronger role. I'd also say that that still would not make him a conservative in the American sense.

152 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:41:59pm

re: #129 ShanghaiEd

Speaking of racism, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned:

Another GOP Official in Hot Water
For Circulating Racist E-mails

Pull quote:

Sheesh! You'd think somebody named Fag-O Frago would be a little more sensitive.

153 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:42:05pm

re: #144 SpaceJesus

uh no. Hitler was motivated entirely by his desire to conserve the German master race.

SJ has a point. Historically, fascists justified their version of collectivist totalitarianism by appealing to racial purity and supremacy, while communists justified their version of collectivist totalitarianism by appealing to the erasure of class distinctions. Theocracies, of course, have historically justified their version of collectivist totalitarianism by appealing to some fundamentalistically interpreted religious dogma or other.

154 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:42:55pm

re: #141 jaunte

That one again. An excuse that's past its sell-by date.

Yeah. But my favorite of his "excuses" was "Hey, I insult Jews too!"

What a humanitarian. /

155 jaunte  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:42:59pm

Since Sharmuta can't get on to say it, I'll mention that the real political conflict that should be a concern is that between the unconstrained vision and the constrained. You can find examples of each that could be described as conservative or progressive. Beware of the unconstrained.

156 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:43:42pm

re: #132 MandyManners

She didn't say "nationalize". She said, "socialize". I have no idea how the people around her kept a straight face.

MM ... Mandy ... I remembered wrong ... sorry ... she is an idiot and I wonder how she keeps getting elected ... oh, wait ... the same way the current president did ...

Anyway ... I hope you are doing as well as can be expected with your mom ... I went through the same with both my parents and nothing anyone can say will help ... it is just fucking hard ... no other way to say it ... there were times when I was doing the hospice thing with my mother and I honestly just wanted to give her the whole bottle of morphine and then that would be it ... but I didn't because G-d decides ... IMO ... but I will say the last words I heard out of her mouth (and I am sure this is because of her Catholic Christian life) were .. Jesus help me ... I loved that woman so much ... she is still with me and your mother will be with you always and forever ....

157 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:44:05pm

re: #154 ShanghaiEd

Yeah. But my favorite of his "excuses" was "Hey, I insult Jews too!"

What a humanitarian. /

Dude, he's not racist ... apparently, he hates everybody.

///

158 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:44:15pm

re: #137 MandyManners

The ultimate in malignant narcissism.

I dunno...while the dog lover in me hates him for putting down such a fine dog before offing himself, Hitler may have done the only merciful thing in his whole wretched life. In bombed-out Berlin immediately post-war, Blondi would have had to compete for food and water with not only other strays, but with Berlin's surviving human population, in addtion to having to avoid becoming a meal himself (for another animal or starving humans).

/certainly not condoning what Hitler done, by any means...Blondi may have survived, had he been given the chance

159 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:44:57pm

re: #155 jaunte

Since Sharmuta can't get on to say it, I'll mention that the real political conflict that should be a concern is that between the unconstrained vision and the constrained. You can find examples of each that could be described as conservative or progressive. Beware of the unconstrained.

That's no fun. It's more amusing to pretend Hitler was somehow a Republican.

160 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:45:00pm

Of course, classical Edmund Burkean conservatives have as little in common with the fascist right as classical John Stuart Millian liberals have in common with the communist left.

Something that, unfortunately, members of both camps too easily forget - or never really learned.

161 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:45:04pm

re: #147 BignJames

Surely someone has posted this...I hope so. Sgt. John Beale was killed in Afghanistan....this is his funeral procession from July,11....

maybe there's still hope for this country.

wow....just wow.

Truly a sight to see.

162 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:46:58pm

re: #160 Salamantis

Of course, classical Edmund Burkean conservatives have as little in common with the fascist right as classical John Stuart Millian liberals have in common with the communist left.

Something that, unfortunately, members of both camps too easily forget - or never really learned.

Thank you for that, Sal. That doesn't get said often enough.

163 avanti  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:47:58pm

re: #147 BignJames

Surely someone has posted this...I hope so. Sgt. John Beale was killed in Afghanistan....this is his funeral procession from July,11....

maybe there's still hope for this country.

wow....just wow.

OK, I'm crying like a baby, deal with it.

164 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:48:03pm

Dear Pat,

Soon to be Justice Sotomayor has not shown any great intellect? She isn't qualified?

What more qualifications do you need then nearly two decades on the Federal bench?

As to intellect, stupid people don't get to be editor of the Yale law review or graduate summa from Princeton.

But, let's face it, Pat, the issue is that she ain't white and she dissagrees with your politics. When you grew up the country was 90% white and 10% black? Right, there were no Hispanics or Asians or Jews in this nation?

I mean geeze Pat, I knew we Jews never counted to you, you seem to have missed out repeatedly on a certain six million of us, but really did you have to make it so plain? And what about my Asian and Hispanic friends? There are a lot more of them than us Jews?

I guess everything that soon to be Justice Sotomayor has accomplished can't count either, because well, she didn't count to you in the first place. You really are a nasty little monster. I don't know why Republicans allow a turd like you to speak for them, but the GOP can rest assured that as long as folks like you do speak for them, the majority of Jews, Blacks, Hispanics and Asians will vote Democratic.

I wish, to heartily tell you to kiss my circumcized crank - because I am no fan of Obama, and folks like you make it impossible to really counter his more nutty ideas. I also wish to tell you to suck my circumcized crank because you are an asshole.

Yours,
LVQ

165 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:49:56pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

Eat downdings, SpaceJesus. Hitler was neither left nor right, as America measures such things. He had the radical egalitarian (within the 'Master Race') tendencies of the left, mixed with the 'return to the past' desires of right-wing reactionaries. Hitler was in a category all his own.

DF, I've seen the left tagged with a lot of supposed beliefs, but "master race" and "radical egalitarian" are not two of them. Are you sure you don't want to restate that, especially in light of Buchanan's racial mastery on this thread?

166 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:50:19pm

re: #163 avanti

OK, I'm crying like a baby, deal with it.

It's OK to tear up over that footage, even I did so.

167 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:50:23pm

Demi Moore looks great. How old is she?

168 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:51:33pm

re: #162 Dark_Falcon

Thank you for that, Sal. That doesn't get said often enough.

They should remember it both about themselves and about each other, IMNSHO; to remember it about themselves would cut down on the seduction of some extremist tendencies, and to remember it about each other would cut down on a lot of gratuitous and undeserved slagging.

169 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:52:35pm

re: #163 avanti

re: #166 Dark_Falcon

Got one of those "hard to swallow" lumps in my throat as well.

170 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:52:36pm

re: #165 ShanghaiEd

DF, I've seen the left tagged with a lot of supposed beliefs, but "master race" and "radical egalitarian" are not two of them. Are you sure you don't want to restate that, especially in light of Buchanan's racial mastery on this thread?

Hitler had the leveling ideals of the left, at least within the "Master Race'. He parted with the left by not extending these to other races, and placing the 'Aryan Race' over them. Is that sufficient clarification?

171 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:52:53pm

Its come to this: The New York Times publishes an op-ed by Obama's dog... [Link: www.nytimes.com...]

172 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:54:15pm

re: #164 LudwigVanQuixote

Dear Pat,

Soon to be Justice Sotomayor has not shown any great intellect? She isn't qualified?

What more qualifications do you need then nearly two decades on the Federal bench?

As to intellect, stupid people don't get to be editor of the Yale law review or graduate summa from Princeton.

But, let's face it, Pat, the issue is that she ain't white and she dissagrees with your politics. When you grew up the country was 90% white and 10% black? Right, there were no Hispanics or Asians or Jews in this nation?

I mean geeze Pat, I knew we Jews never counted to you, you seem to have missed out repeatedly on a certain six million of us, but really did you have to make it so plain? And what about my Asian and Hispanic friends? There are a lot more of them than us Jews?

I guess everything that soon to be Justice Sotomayor has accomplished can't count either, because well, she didn't count to you in the first place. You really are a nasty little monster. I don't know why Republicans allow a turd like you to speak for them, but the GOP can rest assured that as long as folks like you do speak for them, the majority of Jews, Blacks, Hispanics and Asians will vote Democratic.

I wish, to heartily tell you to kiss my circumcized crank - because I am no fan of Obama, and folks like you make it impossible to really counter his more nutty ideas. I also wish to tell you to suck my circumcized crank because you are an asshole.

Yours,
LVQ

Here, here....give 'em hell, LVQ!

173 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:54:48pm

re: #167 NJDhockeyfan

Demi Moore looks great. How old is she?

Parts of her are fairly new.

174 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:55:07pm

re: #167 NJDhockeyfan

Demi Moore looks great. How old is she?

46.

175 albusteve  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:55:37pm

re: #173 OldLineTexan

Parts of her are fairly new.

heh...

176 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:55:40pm

re: #164 LudwigVanQuixote

Isn't Buchanan speaking for the Reform Party?
I thought he bailed the GOP around 2000.

177 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:55:41pm

re: #147 BignJames

Surely someone has posted this...I hope so. Sgt. John Beale was killed in Afghanistan....this is his funeral procession from July,11....

maybe there's still hope for this country.


wow....just wow.

Thank you so much for posting that. It made me cry tears of pride and sadness.

178 quickjustice  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:55:51pm

Sotomayor will be confirmed. She hasn't made any blunders serious enough to disqualify her. On the other hand, she contradicted her own speeches and writings in support of identity politics repeatedly in her testimony before the U.S. Senate. A cynic would say, "Was she lying then, or is she lying now?

Identity politics: The idea that the race, gender, or ethnicity of a person should determine his/her success within society, especially in obtaining jobs, promotions, or other economic or social opportunities. Unpopular with the American people in general.

179 freetoken  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:55:56pm

re: #171 MrPaulRevere

Writing as if the voice is from the object owned by the subject isn't that strange. How many times have stories been told from the vantage point of not only pets but also houses, offices, writing instruments, etc?

It's a technique that gets old fast, but is useful.

180 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:56:27pm

re: #173 OldLineTexan

Parts of her are fairly new.

She's had her 250,000 mile overhaul ;-P

181 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:56:37pm

re: #173 OldLineTexan

Parts of her are fairly new.


Yeah, but not enough plastic to make a corvette....now Pamela Anderson, on the other hand.....

182 jaunte  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:56:38pm

re: #167 NJDhockeyfan

Demi Moore looks great. How old is she?

She's from Roswell, so there's no telling...

183 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:57:05pm

re: #171 MrPaulRevere

Its come to this: The New York Times publishes an op-ed by Obama's dog... [Link: www.nytimes.com...]

It gets worse: Bo uses his op-ed to diss cats. You're no better than your master Bo! You hate the things I love!

///

184 quickjustice  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:57:23pm

re: #167 NJDhockeyfan

I remember seeing a very old film of Demi Moore in which she appeared topless briefly, and had very small breasts. Clearly, she's been "enhanced" since that time.

Is that a bad thing or a good thing?

185 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:58:06pm

re: #177 LudwigVanQuixote

Thank you so much for posting that. It made me cry tears of pride and sadness.

I felt the same way....both sad and proud.

186 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:58:19pm

By the way Charles, Free Republic took the thread you referenced earlier off their front page. I wonder why ///

187 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:58:20pm
188 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:58:38pm

re: #152 Shiplord Kirel

Sheesh! You'd think somebody named Fag-O Frago would be a little more sensitive.

No joke!

Blago...Frago...all those white politicians look alike to me... :)

189 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:58:43pm

re: #147 BignJames

Surely someone has posted this...I hope so. Sgt. John Beale was killed in Afghanistan....this is his funeral procession from July,11....

maybe there's still hope for this country.

wow....just wow.

I am completely in tears.
Thanks for posting that

190 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:58:56pm

re: #179 freetoken

Writing as if the voice is from the object owned by the subject isn't that strange. It's a technique that gets old fast, but is useful.

ok, how's this?

"Hello. I'm the American Eagle, and I've just about had it with some of you assholes!"

191 MandyManners  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:59:00pm

re: #184 quickjustice

I remember seeing a very old film of Demi Moore in which she appeared topless briefly, and had very small breasts. Clearly, she's been "enhanced" since that time.

Is that a bad thing or a good thing?

Ask Ashton.

192 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:59:06pm

re: #187 buzzsawmonkey

If she can apply that same growth to the economy, elect her to office.

Ah, a variation on the old "toilet paper" joke.

193 solomonpanting  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:59:26pm

re: #184 quickjustice

I remember seeing a very old film of Demi Moore in which she appeared topless briefly, and had very small breasts. Clearly, she's been "enhanced" since that time.

Is that a bad thing or a good thing?

You trying to make a mountain out of a molehill?

194 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:59:38pm
195 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:59:50pm

re: #188 ShanghaiEd

No joke!

Blago...Frago...all those white politicians look alike to me... :)

Yeah, Atwater City, Gov. of Illinois ... no diff

196 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 7:59:56pm

re: #184 quickjustice

I remember seeing a very old film of Demi Moore in which she appeared topless briefly, and had very small breasts. Clearly, she's been "enhanced" since that time.

Is that a bad thing or a good thing?

Well it looked good from my couch a few minutes ago.

197 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:00:03pm

re: #193 solomonpanting

You trying to make a mountain out of a molehill?

Uh-oh. I can see the thread is about to go bust.

198 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:00:14pm

re: #184 quickjustice

I remember seeing a very old film of Demi Moore in which she appeared topless briefly, and had very small breasts. Clearly, she's been "enhanced" since that time.

Is that a bad thing or a good thing?

Jennifer Connelly actually had a breast reduction so she would be more seriously considered as an actress.

/*sob!*

199 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:00:24pm

re: #184 quickjustice

I remember seeing a very old film of Demi Moore in which she appeared topless briefly, and had very small breasts. Clearly, she's been "enhanced" since that time.

Is that a bad thing or a good thing?

I think breasts are a universal good. But that's just me.

200 quickjustice  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:00:46pm

re: #193 solomonpanting

No, but I'm planning a trip to the Grand Tetons in the near future!

201 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:00:53pm

re: #197 Pianobuff

Uh-oh. I can see the thread is about to go bust.

I think I'll hang for a while.

202 solomonpanting  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:01:26pm

re: #200 quickjustice

No, but I'm planning a trip to the Grand Tetons in the near future!

Keep us abreast of your journey.

203 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:01:44pm

re: #194 buzzsawmonkey

Don't know that one.

Has to do with a woman studying her bust in a mirror, and asking her husband if she should consider augmentation. The husband remarks that she should rub toilet paper on them. "Toilet paper?" she asks, "how will that do anything?" "Beats me" counters the husband, "but it worked on your butt."

204 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:01:45pm

re: #197 Pianobuff

Uh-oh. I can see the thread is about to go bust.

Things might perk up in a bit...

205 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:02:07pm

re: #172 talon_262


Thanks... Pat gets a special place on my suckometer someplace after entertainment news, disco, the Disco Institute and root canal, but before Hamas.

206 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:02:56pm

re: #195 OldLineTexan

Yeah, Atwater City, Gov. of Illinois ... no diff

OLT .. Obama came from union sewage ... don't care how it sounds ... they f*ckin own him ... nothing new about him ... nothing ... no new politics ... no change ... show me where the change is? ... SEIU ... all the others they own him ...

Feelings? ... that is just a bad song ... I am still waiting ... I still wake up and wonder how in the hell he got elected ...

207 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:03:04pm

re: #189 reine.de.tout

I am completely in tears.
Thanks for posting that


It's posted over at Powerline.....maybe Charles can link to it.

208 quickjustice  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:03:07pm

re: #198 Salamantis

An old girlfriend of mine, with impressive pectoral appendages, informed me proudly that she'd had them reduced. It was difficult to imagine them before the surgery!

209 Irenicum  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:03:26pm

re: #40 Jim in Virginia

May I recommend a wonderful book that came out a few years ago called Race: A History Beyond Black and White by Marc Aronson. He talks extensively about that very issue. Part of the deal of the Irish "becoming" white was siding with northern European whites against blacks after the Civil War. One of many ugly episodes in our country's history. The same attitude existed towards Italians as well. My own German grandmother was deeply racist and saw anyone not Aryan as being less than human. Suffice it to say, we didn't visit her much, of which I'm still thankful. The Aronson book is written as a textbook for HS, but is good for any age. Check and see if C-SPAN still has an archive of a talk he gave at a HS in Brooklyn. The exchange with the HSers is wonderful!

210 avanti  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:03:36pm

Just saw a promo for a 2010 HBO mini series "Pacific" directed by Tom Hanks and Speilberg. Looks awesome

Pacific.

211 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:03:36pm

re: #198 Salamantis

Jennifer Connelly actually had a breast reduction so she would be more seriously considered as an actress.

/*sob!*

The female Milton Berle, eh?

212 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:03:56pm

Boobies!

213 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:05:57pm

re: #184 quickjustice

I remember seeing a very old film of Demi Moore in which she appeared topless briefly, and had very small breasts. Clearly, she's been "enhanced" since that time.

Is that a bad thing or a good thing?


As a completely subjective statement that is perhaps not perfectly appropriate,

Natural always look better than fake even if the natural ones in question are not large.

Fellow male lizards, please back me up here... Would you rather see small and perky or large and Frankenstien that do not move, flow, or react like real ones?

214 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:06:16pm

re: #147 BignJames

Surely someone has posted this...I hope so. Sgt. John Beale was killed in Afghanistan....this is his funeral procession from July,11....

maybe there's still hope for this country.

wow....just wow.

Thanks for posting that.

I don't get much of chance to thank service members, Ft. Lewis is a bit far south, Everett Naval Station is a bit North, and Bremerton is across the Sound, so we don't see too many in my neck of the woods.

I was picking up lunch when four uniformed soldiers walked in. I finally got the opportunity to shake their hands and say thank you, and to buy 'em lunch.

It made my week!

215 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:06:16pm

re: #212 Dark_Falcon

You sly devil.........

216 Irenicum  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:06:48pm

re: #62 MandyManners

Ironic, huh? Buchanan rails against identity politics, and yet he's the poster child for it. None so blind as those who WILL not see.

217 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:07:11pm

re: #213 LudwigVanQuixote

As a completely subjective statement that is perhaps not perfectly appropriate,

Natural always look better than fake even if the natural ones in question are not large.

Fellow male lizards, please back me up here... Would you rather see small and perky or large and Frankenstien that do not move, flow, or react like real ones?

I once hadda gf whose implants hardened up on her. Those things felt like subcutaneous body armor!

218 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:07:50pm

re: #210 avanti

Just saw a promo for a 2010 HBO mini series "Pacific" directed by Tom Hanks and Speilberg. Looks awesome

Pacific.

Yeah it does look great! On more thing for you, avanti:

Florida Woman, 90, Behind the Same Wheel 559,000 Miles Later

219 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:08:42pm
220 albusteve  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:09:21pm

re: #213 LudwigVanQuixote

As a completely subjective statement that is perhaps not perfectly appropriate,

Natural always look better than fake even if the natural ones in question are not large.

Fellow male lizards, please back me up here... Would you rather see small and perky or large and Frankenstien that do not move, flow, or react like real ones?

yes, definately...tits the size of soccer balls is a real turn off to me...round, hard and phony...scares too...and the mentality of women that do this is just as artificial as there enhancement....

221 quickjustice  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:09:34pm

re: #217 Salamantis

I had a client with the same problem. She complained of constant pain in her chest. She sued the implanting doctor for malpractice.

222 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:09:41pm

re: #217 Salamantis

I once hadda gf whose implants hardened up on her. Those things felt like subcutaneous body armor!

Well they were sand bags.

My problem is that I'm a physicist and when I see fake ones move, I can't help about the change in the center of mass of them as being why they move so oddly. It is a real buzz kill.

223 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:10:12pm

re: #220 albusteve

yes, definately...tits the size of soccer balls is a real turn off to me...round, hard and phony...scares too...and the mentality of women that do this is just as artificial as there enhancement....

It's the pectoral equivalent of a bleached blonde, IMHO.

224 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:10:15pm

re: #214 jcm


It may be cliche to some but it's true...if you love freedom...thank a servicemember.

225 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:10:25pm

Whoa! We're talking about boobies? Where the heck have I been?

226 albusteve  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:10:56pm

re: #223 Salamantis

It's the pectoral equivalent of a bleached blonde, IMHO.

yes, but far worse

227 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:11:17pm

re: #225 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Whoa! We're talking about boobies? Where the heck have I been?

Oh. Out with friends. Drinking.

228 TheMatrix31  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:11:21pm

re: #167 NJDhockeyfan

Demi Moore looks great. How old is she?

She can be 65 and still be hotter than most 35 year olds.

229 quickjustice  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:11:34pm

As far as pectoral appendages are concerned, I think natural is better.

230 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:11:34pm

re: #225 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Whoa! We're talking about boobies? Where the heck have I been?

Hanging with that bat?

/

231 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:11:35pm
232 freetoken  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:11:43pm

re: #199 ShanghaiEd

I think breasts are a universal good.

How mammalian of you.... you Classist!

233 MandyManners  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:11:58pm

re: #213 LudwigVanQuixote

As a completely subjective statement that is perhaps not perfectly appropriate,

Natural always look better than fake even if the natural ones in question are not large.

Fellow male lizards, please back me up here... Would you rather see small and perky or large and Frankenstien that do not move, flow, or react like real ones?

Breasts are supposed to flow?

234 solomonpanting  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:12:20pm

re: #225 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Whoa! We're talking about boobies? Where the heck have I been?

Cleaving to the sidelines?

235 itellu3times  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:12:32pm

re: #225 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Whoa! We're talking about boobies? Where the heck have I been?

Talking about boobies is like dancing about architecture.

/wuz:Talking About Music is Like Dancing About Architecture

236 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:12:32pm

I just love (not) how the msm trots out Buchanan and Luap Nor as spokesman for conservatives. If that's the case, then they should trot out Bill Ayres and Cindy Sheehan as spokespukes for the left. Then again the way Biden, Pelosi, and Reid are doing, they sound batshit crazy on their own!

237 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:12:38pm

re: #224 BignJames

It may be cliche to some but it's true...if you love freedom...thank a servicemember.

AMEN to that!

238 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:12:44pm

re: #225 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Whoa! We're talking about boobies? Where the heck have I been?


Well pull up a chair, but to recap someone mention a certain growth in Demi Moore's personal economy and then we started to discuss the use of venture capital to falsely inflate a market...

239 swamprat  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:12:45pm

some are large and some are small, but I look at it this way:

240 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:12:51pm

re: #225 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Whoa! We're talking about boobies? Where the heck have I been?

Mum and four daughters spend £40,000 on nine boob ops

...While most mums and their daughters enjoy shopping trips together, Chantal, 50, and her daughters have spent nearly £40,000 on visits to cosmetic surgeons to have their breasts enlarged.

Ripley, 18, Tara, 22, Terri, 25, Emma, 28, and mum-of-nine Chantal, of Kirkby-in-Ashfield, Notts, now boast chest sizes ranging from 34DD to 32GG.

On one occasion, Emma and Ripley even ended up having breast enhancement surgery on the same day and at the same clinic as their mum.

241 albusteve  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:13:00pm

re: #228 TheMatrix31

She can be 65 and still be hotter than most 35 year olds.

HOT!...what's hot?

242 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:13:06pm

Weird story of the day: Joggers hurt in buzzard attacks [Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

243 wee fury  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:13:14pm

Frank McCourt -- RIP

244 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:13:31pm

re: #222 LudwigVanQuixote

Well they were sand bags.

My problem is that I'm a physicist and when I see fake ones move, I can't help about the change in the center of mass of them as being why they move so oddly. It is a real buzz kill.

LOL

I hope you don't stare with a look like you are calculating vectors, etc.

245 MandyManners  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:14:24pm

Good night, Lizards.

246 quickjustice  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:14:30pm

My most passionate girlfriends were large and small-chested respectively. Chest size wasn't the determining factor.

247 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:14:59pm

re: #242 MrPaulRevere

Weird story of the day: Joggers hurt in buzzard attacks [Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

Speaking of buzzards, has anyone here ever noticed that relatives of the deceased can tend to peck at each other over the inheritance like buzzards over choice carcass portions?

248 jaunte  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:15:02pm

re: #242 MrPaulRevere

Weird story of the day: Joggers hurt in buzzard attacks [Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

249 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:15:03pm
250 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:15:21pm

re: #233 MandyManners

Breasts are supposed to flow?

I was wondering about that too. Must be the milk currents or something.

251 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:15:27pm

re: #240 NJDhockeyfan
Dat be some nice superstructures right there!

252 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:15:37pm

re: #243 wee fury

Angela's Ashes was an awesome book. RIP Mr. McCourt [Link: www.amazon.com...]

253 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:15:47pm

re: #231 buzzsawmonkey

"A Stress Analysis of a Strapless Evening Gown" was a big seller in its day. I think you've got a winning book idea in "The Center of Mass Change in Breast Implants."

Well, not to be too graphic, but the implanst themselves have a different density than the rest of the natural tissue, so you end up getting these un-natural oscillations if you are doing something with her that would make them bounce.

This happened to me once, and I was too much of a nerd to not notice the un-natural motion and figure out why they might move so oddly. It was a real buzz kill for me.

254 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:16:22pm
255 jaunte  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:16:24pm

re: #250 Pianobuff

I was wondering about that too. Must be the milk currents or something.

As long as they aren't eddies.

256 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:16:24pm

re: #242 MrPaulRevere

Weird story of the day: Joggers hurt in buzzard attacks [Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

Saw a poster once (a picture poster, not an internet blog poster) had a picture of two buzzards sitting on a branch. One of them says...

"Patience? Hell. I'm gonna kill something."

257 wee fury  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:16:30pm

re: #252 MrPaulRevere

Yes.

258 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:16:56pm

re: #244 Pianobuff

LOL

I hope you don't stare with a look like you are calculating vectors, etc.


See my 253, the damn Lagrangian came into my mind because her boobs were moving one way and her nipples another.

259 albusteve  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:17:20pm

re: #253 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, not to be too graphic, but the implanst themselves have a different density than the rest of the natural tissue, so you end up getting these un-natural oscillations if you are doing something with her that would make them bounce.

This happened to me once, and I was too much of a nerd to not notice the un-natural motion and figure out why they might move so oddly. It was a real buzz kill for me.

silicone implants fail the squeez test...like fondling a giant wiffle ball

260 quickjustice  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:17:55pm

re: #254 buzzsawmonkey

IIRC, Buzz, it was the old Frenchwoman, and the villagers started snatching her stuff before she was actually dead. A motion picture classic.

261 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:17:56pm

re: #259 albusteve

Never touched a pair.
.
.
.
.
Alas...

262 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:18:15pm

out

263 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:18:23pm
264 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:18:24pm

re: #233 MandyManners

Breasts are supposed to flow?

Well if you prefer, sploosh a little when the owner reclines.

265 albusteve  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:18:37pm

re: #261 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Never touched a pair.
.
.
.
.
Alas...

too much TV...get out more

266 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:18:53pm
267 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:19:53pm

re: #259 albusteve

silicone implants fail the squeez test...like fondling a giant wiffle ball

Maybe execs keep secretaries with implants around so they can squeeze them like stress reduction balls, without worrying about them being spotted on their desks...;~)

268 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:20:02pm

re: #256 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
The very for real poster was big in the early 70s.
Patience my ass, I'm gonna kill something.
Had it on my wall, along with the Farah Poster. And Pink Floyd, Most of the SI swimsuit girls, Black Sabbath.

269 quickjustice  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:20:06pm

re: #266 buzzsawmonkey

That's because the concept is universal. I'm litigating one helluva estate case right now. Some of the feuding family members are very creepy.

270 jaunte  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:20:11pm

Goodnight all.

Press close bare-bosom'd night -- press close magnetic nourishing night!
Night of south winds -- night of the large few stars!
Still nodding night -- mad naked summer night.
-- Walt Whitman

271 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:20:15pm

re: #258 LudwigVanQuixote

See my 253, the damn Lagrangian came into my mind because her boobs were moving one way and her nipples another.

And remind me how discussion of Pat Buchanan got us to this point?

272 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:21:01pm
273 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:21:20pm

re: #243 wee fury

Frank McCourt -- RIP

I really enjoyed Angela's Ashes, Rest In Peace Mr. McCourt.

274 quickjustice  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:21:20pm

re: #271 Pianobuff

Buchanan = Boob!

QED.

275 Grand Poobah  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:21:25pm

Some of Pat's ideas are...mildly good. But his social ideology is mind-bogglingly anti-social.

276 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:21:25pm

re: #264 LudwigVanQuixote

I mean if you go to the beach and you see a woman lying down and she sort of splooshes to the side, they are the ones G-d gave her, but if she's all relaxed and they are standing up like two marines at attention, you know there has been some surgery - and it really is unattractive to me.

277 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:21:26pm

re: #271 Pianobuff

And remind me how discussion of Pat Buchanan got us to this point?

It's a natural segue; Pat is one of the biggest boobs claiming membership in the conservative movement.

278 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:21:32pm
279 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:21:37pm

re: #271 Pianobuff
He's a big boob!

280 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:22:20pm

They're all dying.

We'll all be famous soon!

281 albusteve  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:22:43pm

PENIS THREAD!

large, fat, long, curved...re: #267 Salamantis

Maybe execs keep secretaries with implants around so they can squeeze them like stress reduction balls, without worrying about them being spotted on their desks...;~)

makes as much sense as otherwise..."Shirley!..."

282 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:22:43pm

Here's a story from last Sept.

Radical Saudi Cleric Paid for Daughter’s Breast Enhancements While Drawing Benefits from British Taxpayer

Now that's some fine uncovered meat.

283 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:22:45pm

re: #272 buzzsawmonkey

Seeing as how breast implants are made of silicon, how long before they are sold with computing capabilities?

You're way behind the times.....

A British company is developing computer chips which store music in women's breast implants. This is a major breakthrough, since women are always complaining about men staring at their breasts and not listening to them

284 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:23:02pm

re: #272 buzzsawmonkey

Seeing as how breast implants are made of silicon, how long before they are sold with computing capabilities?


I don't know exactly what to think of the horror of breasts with Vista as an operating system...

285 quickjustice  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:23:15pm

There were women in the old burlesque shows who could maneuver their chests to get tassles swinging, and similar acrobatic arts. Amazing!

286 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:23:40pm
287 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:23:42pm

before
after

I know which I like............

"Thanks Mr Natural!"

288 albusteve  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:24:13pm

re: #284 LudwigVanQuixote

I don't know exactly what to think of the horror of breasts with Vista as an operating system...

38C memory cups

289 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:24:21pm

re: #271 Pianobuff

And remind me how discussion of Pat Buchanan got us to this point?

Ummm someone mentioned Demi Moore and she is less depressing than Pat...

290 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:24:57pm

re: #276 LudwigVanQuixote
Well, we were at the water park the other day, and there were some young ladies whose breasts were not fake but very gravity defying. Damn, why didn't I appreciate 16 yr old boobs more at the time? Cause I was a 16 yr old boy. Youth is wasted on the young.

291 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:25:07pm

re: #286 buzzsawmonkey

We won't even discuss the Visible Panty Linux...


Does that make condoms Red Hats?!

292 quickjustice  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:25:44pm

re: #283 Pianobuff

Snort.

293 albusteve  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:26:48pm

the forgotten female ass...what a shame

294 Gella  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:26:55pm

[Link: www.motivatedphotos.com...]

295 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:27:03pm

re: #222 LudwigVanQuixote

Well they were sand bags.

My problem is that I'm a physicist and when I see fake ones move, I can't help about the change in the center of mass of them as being why they move so oddly. It is a real buzz kill.

All natural for me, please.

I was a failed mechanical engineer in another lifetime, and whenever I see an artificially "perfect," ah, installation, for some reason my mind pictures a factory assembly line. Bummer. Eroticism is about individuality, not reproducibility.

Oops. TMI.

296 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:27:16pm

re: #289 LudwigVanQuixote

Ummm someone mentioned Demi Moore and she is less depressing than Pat...

It certainly aroused the thread...;~)

297 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:28:14pm

re: #285 quickjustice

There were women in the old burlesque shows who could maneuver their chests to get tassles swinging, and similar acrobatic arts. Amazing!

You can still see some of that sort of "acrobatic arts" at some places in New Orleans.

Not that I have actually ever seen it.

298 Gella  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:28:17pm

[Link: www.motivatedphotos.com...]

299 quickjustice  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:28:33pm

re: #293 albusteve

There are those who prefer it. In Latin cultures, a lady's behind is the most important part of the package!

300 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:28:34pm

re: #293 albusteve

the forgotten female ass...what a shame

no way!
saw one at Sams Club today......TO. DIE. FOR!

301 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:28:52pm

re: #296 Salamantis
Well she has nice boobs whereas Pat is a boob.

302 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:28:55pm

re: #293 albusteve

the forgotten female ass...what a shame

Steve: I've forgotten a lot of things, but that's not one of 'em...

303 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:29:03pm

No boob thread would be complete without the Bounce-o-meter.

304 quickjustice  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:30:07pm

re: #297 reine.de.tout

And I thought it was an art form that had died with burlesque!

305 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:30:19pm

re: #296 Salamantis

It certainly aroused the thread...;~)

I'm feeling like this little dude now....

Youtube Video
306 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:30:53pm

re: #299 quickjustice

There are those who prefer it. In Latin cultures, a lady's behind is the most important part of the package!

It sure keeps the pelvic girdles from shafting each other during doggystyle...

307 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:31:08pm

re: #297 reine.de.tout

Being the sailor I am, I have seen such a thing and some other things that were amazing. And that's all I'm gonna say about that.

308 DistantThunder  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:31:14pm

Boob thread? Not quite the uplift I needed.

309 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:31:52pm

re: #308 DistantThunder

Boob thread? Not quite the uplift I needed.

I promise the next thread will be better. Cross my heart.

310 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:32:37pm

re: #307 pingjockey

Being the sailor I am, I have seen such a thing and some other things that were amazing. And that's all I'm gonna say about that.

No talk of ping pong ball marksmanship or nether smoke ring blowing in the thread!

/also an ex-squid

311 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:32:41pm

re: #305 Pianobuff
That is still one of the damndest videos I have ever seen.

312 Irenicum  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:33:12pm

re: #160 Salamantis

I don't have enough up-dings to give you for that. Perfectly put!

313 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:33:16pm
314 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:33:45pm

re: #310 Salamantis
I figured that might be a bit much!

315 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:33:50pm

re: #307 pingjockey

Being the sailor I am, I have seen such a thing and some other things that were amazing. And that's all I'm gonna say about that.

Does it have to do with ping-ping balls?

/inquiring (dirty) minds wanna know... ;-P

316 albusteve  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:34:06pm

re: #308 DistantThunder

Boob thread? Not quite the uplift I needed.

butt how's yer ass look?

317 solomonpanting  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:34:42pm

re: #299 quickjustice

There are those who prefer it. In Latin cultures, a lady's behind is the most important part of the package!

There's a scence in The Seduction of Mimi that may offer an alternative as the most important part.

318 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:34:49pm

re: #307 pingjockey

Being the sailor I am, I have seen such a thing and some other things that were amazing. And that's all I'm gonna say about that.


Being the sailor I was, one should never ever write such a thing if one's Lizard Queen might be lurking about ....

She also wishes me to attest to her near perfection of natural form...

319 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:35:14pm

re: #315 talon_262
Among other things.

320 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:36:31pm

re: #318 LudwigVanQuixote
Mine is in the bath. She has heard some of the stories, but not all!

321 hokiepride  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:36:47pm

Adolf Buchanan shows his true stripes again. Gee Pat, if the top positions in the gubmint should be reserved for the same ethnic stock that founded this nation, then no Irish, Italian or Polish American should be on the Supreme Court or on the Congress as there were no Irish, Italians or Poles in the folks who wrote the Constitution or fought the Civil War. That means Pat, you should stop running for President as no Irish were in the Civil or the Revolutionary War either. Agree with this Pat?

322 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:36:59pm

re: #307 pingjockey

Being the sailor I am, I have seen such a thing and some other things that were amazing. And that's all I'm gonna say about that.

ping-pong anyone?

323 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:37:25pm

Good Night Ya'll ...


going to listen to some music and then bed ... work again tomorrow ...

Plant and Krauss ...

Youtube Video
324 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:37:30pm

re: #313 buzzsawmonkey

Three engineers are discussing creation.

The first, an electrical engineer, says, "Look at the human nerve system, all its synapses working together. Without doubt, God is an electrical engineer."

"No," says the mechanical engineer. "Look at the muscles and the bones, and how smoothly they operate. There is no question God is a mechanical engineer."

"You're both wrong," says the civil engineer. "God is without doubt a civil engineer. Who but a civil engineer would build a waste canal and run it through a major recreational area?"


Without a doubt G-d is a female physicist.

If a man made the universe, quantum mechanics would not happen. The electron would know where it is, you would know where it is, we would all know where it is. However, the electron may or may not be there if it feels like it.

325 Sambo  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:37:43pm

re: #309 Pianobuff

I wish I had a snappy response for you.

326 quickjustice  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:37:49pm

It's well known within the GOP that Buchanan's always fishing to be bought off so he'll shut up.

327 DistantThunder  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:38:18pm

New Washington Post article posted a few minutes ago: Experts are shocked at the unexpected drop in the crime rate all across the country. Couldn't have anything to do with all those millions of firearms purchased by law-abiding citizens this year, or could it.

Police take credit in the article of the massive reduction.

Drop in Violent Crime in DC Area and Some Other Major Cities Puzzles Experts

They'll call it the Obama effect.

328 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:39:24pm

re: #326 quickjustice

It's well known within the GOP that Buchanan's always fishing to be bought off so he'll shut up.

I'd never heard that... any references out there?

329 Chekote  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:39:29pm

Another great week for the GOP. Sanford says God wants him to stay on. Another member of C Street House is caught cheating on his wife. Buchanan thinks fighting for the white male is great politics. Palin is tweeting about grizzly bears. 2010 is just around the corner. What could go wrong?

/sarcasm

330 quickjustice  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:39:29pm

Goodnight and sweet dreams, y'all! ;-)

331 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:39:35pm

re: #327 DistantThunder

New Washington Post article posted a few minutes ago: Experts are shocked at the unexpected drop in the crime rate all across the country. Couldn't have anything to do with all those millions of firearms purchased by law-abiding citizens this year, or could it.

Police take credit in the article of the massive reduction.

Drop in Violent Crime in DC Area and Some Other Major Cities Puzzles Experts

They'll call it the Obama effect.

And crime rates are supposed to increase in recessions.

332 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:39:54pm

re: #321 hokiepride
Psst...Irish Fought in the Civil War.

333 Lynn B.  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:40:10pm

re: #164 LudwigVanQuixote

Dear Pat,

Soon to be Justice Sotomayor has not shown any great intellect? She isn't qualified?

What more qualifications do you need then nearly two decades on the Federal bench?

As to intellect, stupid people don't get to be editor of the Yale law review or graduate summa from Princeton.

But, let's face it, Pat, the issue is that she ain't white and she dissagrees with your politics. When you grew up the country was 90% white and 10% black? Right, there were no Hispanics or Asians or Jews in this nation?

I mean geeze Pat, I knew we Jews never counted to you, you seem to have missed out repeatedly on a certain six million of us, but really did you have to make it so plain? And what about my Asian and Hispanic friends? There are a lot more of them than us Jews?

I guess everything that soon to be Justice Sotomayor has accomplished can't count either, because well, she didn't count to you in the first place. You really are a nasty little monster. I don't know why Republicans allow a turd like you to speak for them, but the GOP can rest assured that as long as folks like you do speak for them, the majority of Jews, Blacks, Hispanics and Asians will vote Democratic.

I wish, to heartily tell you to kiss my circumcized crank - because I am no fan of Obama, and folks like you make it impossible to really counter his more nutty ideas. I also wish to tell you to suck my circumcized crank because you are an asshole.

Yours,
LVQ

All well and good, except that, if you read her opinions and you listen to her speeches and you pay attention to her testimony before Congress, you can't possibly conclude that she has shown any great intellect or that she's qualified to be on the Supreme Court. This is the point that's gotten swept to the side in this debate.

I don't give a flying f*** about her ideology or her struggles or her ethnicity. I may care on a personal level, but that has nothing to do with my assessment of her qualifications for the position. She's demonstrated a remarkable lack of ability to fill the position she's about to occupy. That's what matters to me.

This country is already suffering the fallout from electing its first affirmative action president and we're now about to suffer the secondary fallout from a lifetime affirmative action appointment to the Supreme Court. As I've said before, maybe she'll grow into the job. Let's all hope and pray that she does.

334 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:40:52pm

re: #332 pingjockey

Psst...Irish Fought in the Civil War.

On both sides.

335 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:41:24pm

re: #331 Salamantis
There be a whole lot of armed citizens out there.

336 DistantThunder  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:41:34pm

I'm fed up with "puzzled experts" when the answers seem likely and obvious.

337 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:41:41pm

Next, the first asian american is appointed to the Supreme Court!

338 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:41:44pm

re: #313 buzzsawmonkey

Three engineers are discussing creation.

The first, an electrical engineer, says, "Look at the human nerve system, all its synapses working together. Without doubt, God is an electrical engineer."

"No," says the mechanical engineer. "Look at the muscles and the bones, and how smoothly they operate. There is no question God is a mechanical engineer."

"You're both wrong," says the civil engineer. "God is without doubt a civil engineer. Who but a civil engineer would build a waste canal and run it through a major recreational area?"

buzz: LOL! That's a winner, for sure.

339 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:41:57pm

re: #3 Truck Monkey

Of course MSNBC will be giving us liberal doses of crazy uncle Pat. They do it by design.

Hate to burst your bubble, but Pat Buchanan isn't exactly an obscure figure dredged up by the so-called "liberal media" (note: I don't believe 'the media' is liberal OR conservative; it's primary pro-media. Whatever it takes to keep themselves in the black. Laissez-faire capitalism at its finest)

Pat Buchanan is not just some random crazy guy pulled off the street; he has a fair degree of influence in the Republican party establishment, and you dismiss him at your peril.

I'm not AT ALL advocating for him or his positions, just saying that suggesting he's part of some vast MSNBC conspiracy against your point of view is a dangerous mistake.

340 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:42:08pm

re: #329 Chekote

What could go wrong?

We could continue attacking ourselves and ignore the outrageous legislation being foisted upon us by "0" and his gang of thugs.

/not sarcasm

341 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:42:46pm
342 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:42:54pm

re: #170 Dark_Falcon

Hitler had the leveling ideals of the left, at least within the "Master Race'. He parted with the left by not extending these to other races, and placing the 'Aryan Race' over them. Is that sufficient clarification?

More than sufficient. Thank you!

343 Chekote  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:43:42pm
She's demonstrated a remarkable lack of ability to fill the position she's about to occupy.

Perhaps, this is a good thing in the sense that Scalia, Roberts and Aliton may be able to influence her. I watched the hearings and she didn't come across very ideological.

344 DistantThunder  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:43:54pm

re: #339 negativ

Hate to burst your bubble, but Pat Buchanan isn't exactly an obscure figure dredged up by the so-called "liberal media" (note: I don't believe 'the media' is liberal OR conservative; it's primary pro-media. Whatever it takes to keep themselves in the black. Laissez-faire capitalism at its finest)

Pat Buchanan is not just some random crazy guy pulled off the street; he has a fair degree of influence in the Republican party establishment, and you dismiss him at your peril.

I'm not AT ALL advocating for him or his positions, just saying that suggesting he's part of some vast MSNBC conspiracy against your point of view is a dangerous mistake.

If blacks can say that Obama is not a true black, then why can't we say that Pat is not a true Republican? "Pat Exposed, Shunned by the GOP.

345 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:44:08pm

re: #337 Salamantis

Next, the first asian american is appointed to the Supreme Court!

I'd be totally cool with that.

346 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:44:19pm

re: #339 negativ
The man was relevant 20 years ago. He hasn't been a big mover and shaker in the party for years. And the msm does trot him out as the face of the party, not Michael Steele.

347 Irenicum  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:44:58pm

re: #213 LudwigVanQuixote

I am so totally in agreement!

348 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:45:21pm

I gotta get back to some stuff in the lab... Have a great night fellow reptiles!

349 solomonpanting  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:45:23pm

re: #337 Salamantis

Next, the first asian american is appointed to the Supreme Court!

I'm not sure. They're not very vocal in their aggrieved status.

350 DistantThunder  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:45:47pm

re: #343 Chekote

Perhaps, this is a good thing in the sense that Scalia, Roberts and Aliton may be able to influence her. I watched the hearings and she didn't come across very ideological.

Her stuttering and stammering made her look like a bit of an airhead. Frankly, she is also one of the homeliest women I've seen on TV lately, and Obese to boot. Maybe she'll rule empathetically on cases where morbidly obese people were fired for incompetence.

351 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:46:09pm

re: #345 IslandLibertarian

I'd be totally cool with that.

With me, it all depends upon who the asian american is. I judge people as individuals, and do not plus or minus them on the basis of membership in particular racial, ethnic, religious or sexual groups.

352 Chekote  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:46:53pm

re: #340 IslandLibertarian

So are you suggesting that we ignore the fact that we have nobody capable of leading the fight? Attacking Obama is great. But what alternatives are we presenting the voters? Who should be the spokesperson(s) for our side that can present our agenda to the voters?

353 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:47:13pm

re: #343 Chekote

Perhaps, this is a good thing in the sense that Scalia, Roberts and Aliton may be able to influence her. I watched the hearings and she didn't come across very ideological.

I wish I could remember the article I read about a week ago. It was an inside baseball piece that discussed how Kennedy has this tendency to go the other way when a justice is over-bearing or doesn't have his respect, etc.

The basic angle was that Sotomayor's relationship with Kennedy will be one of the more determining factors of success for her in her early years, IIRC or at least that's the conclusion I drew.

354 swamprat  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:47:34pm

re: #344 DistantThunder

If blacks can say that Obama is not a true black, then why can't we say that Pat is not a true Republican? "Pat Exposed, Shunned by the GOP.

Aye. Forrrr no trrrue Rrrrrrepublican would....

/Bagpipes in the background

355 DistantThunder  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:48:02pm

re: #351 Salamantis

With me, it all depends upon who the asian american is. I judge people as individuals, and do not plus or minus them on the basis of membership in particular racial, ethnic, religious or sexual groups.

I was taught in college that I was wrong to hold that same position. I was taught that the ethnic minority WANTS me to favorably take their race into consideration. It's now a cultural mandate. So much for character.

356 Lynn B.  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:49:33pm

re: #339 negativ

Hate to burst your bubble, but Pat Buchanan isn't exactly an obscure figure dredged up by the so-called "liberal media" (note: I don't believe 'the media' is liberal OR conservative; it's primary pro-media. Whatever it takes to keep themselves in the black. Laissez-faire capitalism at its finest)

Pat Buchanan is not just some random crazy guy pulled off the street; he has a fair degree of influence in the Republican party establishment, and you dismiss him at your peril.

I'm not AT ALL advocating for him or his positions, just saying that suggesting he's part of some vast MSNBC conspiracy against your point of view is a dangerous mistake.

Look. CNN used to be the epitome of liberal advocacy media. (Oh. Sorry. That "honor" would go to NPR/PBS but I sort of figure they're so far beyond the fringe as to not be in the equation.) MSNBC has now positioned itself in this niche with effort and deliberation. So when they bring someone like Pat Buchanan on board, you know it has to be with the conscious intention of discrediting the "right."

It's not a conspiracy theory, it's just plain common sense applied to reality.

357 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:50:12pm

re: #352 Chekote
Our Chairman is notably absent from the Sunday taliking head shows. Why is that? Either he has nothing to say or he can't get air time and I have a hard time believing that. Where the Hell is Michael Steele?

358 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:51:21pm

re: #356 Lynn B.

Look. CNN used to be the epitome of liberal advocacy media. (Oh. Sorry. That "honor" would go to NPR/PBS but I sort of figure they're so far beyond the fringe as to not be in the equation.) MSNBC has now positioned itself in this niche with effort and deliberation. So when they bring someone like Pat Buchanan on board, you know it has to be with the conscious intention of discrediting the "right."

It's not a conspiracy theory, it's just plain common sense applied to reality.

I dunno if this is the case, but it seems to me that Ann Coulter gets a lotta face time on MSNBC, too...

359 DistantThunder  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:51:27pm

re: #352 Chekote

So are you suggesting that we ignore the fact that we have nobody capable of leading the fight? Attacking Obama is great. But what alternatives are we presenting the voters? Who should be the spokesperson(s) for our side that can present our agenda to the voters?

I don't think we want a leader. I think the buck shot approach from a wide variety of Republicans is best. The left focuses on demonizing any leader that pops up. Let them have to try to fight a whole number of people. My idea was to get an official spokesman like an Ari Fleisher type, that isn't running for anything, but can read messages from different republican cohorts and take questions. A Robert Gibbs type except she/he would have to be smart, and not be hideous.

360 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:51:29pm

re: #313 buzzsawmonkey

Three engineers are discussing creation.

The first, an electrical engineer, says, "Look at the human nerve system, all its synapses working together. Without doubt, God is an electrical engineer."

"No," says the mechanical engineer. "Look at the muscles and the bones, and how smoothly they operate. There is no question God is a mechanical engineer."

"You're both wrong," says the civil engineer. "God is without doubt a civil engineer. Who but a civil engineer would build a waste canal and run it through a major recreational area?"

LMAO!

361 Irenicum  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:51:42pm

re: #247 Salamantis

Yep, I've seen it personally. A sad sight.

362 capitalist piglet  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:52:21pm

re: #129 ShanghaiEd

Speaking of racism, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned:

Another GOP Official in Hot Water
For Circulating Racist E-mails

Pull quote:

Speaking of racism, did you happen to see Barbara Boxer make a complete and utter ass of herself, addressing the head of the Black Chamber of Commerce?

I will not deny there is racism on the right, but the idea that none exists on the left is total bullshit. Senator Boxer is a case in point.

363 Chekote  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:52:24pm
Where the Hell is Michael Steele?

Usually on Hannity. He never recovered from his run in with Rush.

364 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:52:31pm

re: #349 solomonpanting

I'm not sure. They're not very vocal in their aggrieved status.

Completely anecdotal but my wife is half-Asian. The Asian side is split roughly 80/20 Dem/Rep. Starting in the last couple of months in the election cycle through now I've been hearing more of them wonder "what they are doing wrong that they're being ignored". The general feeling is that AA is working for some minorities but not others and they are getting left out as a result.

365 DistantThunder  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:52:36pm

re: #356 Lynn B.

Look. CNN used to be the epitome of liberal advocacy media. (Oh. Sorry. That "honor" would go to NPR/PBS but I sort of figure they're so far beyond the fringe as to not be in the equation.) MSNBC has now positioned itself in this niche with effort and deliberation. So when they bring someone like Pat Buchanan on board, you know it has to be with the conscious intention of discrediting the "right."

It's not a conspiracy theory, it's just plain common sense applied to reality.

Exactly. They'll never have a Charles Krauthammer.

366 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:53:05pm

re: #358 Salamantis
I used to respect Anne, but she seems to have went off the rails too. Have a couple of her books even. Sad, really.

367 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:53:05pm

re: #352 Chekote

No. Just find someone to lead the Republican Party and STOP attacking the fringe.
Besides, Buchanan is with the Reform Party.
And I'll end with this.
Not once did the Democratic Party distance itself from, or criticize, or condemn the far left fringe wackos in their midst, nor did they wring their hands about how wacko they made the Democrats appear. I was never necessary and they won the election.

368 Irenicum  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:53:25pm

re: #253 LudwigVanQuixote

You must not have been too much of a nerd to even be in that situation!

369 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:53:42pm

re: #365 DistantThunder

Exactly. They'll never have a Charles Krauthammer.

Or a Victor Davis Hanson.

370 Chekote  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:53:59pm

Ari Fleisher was one of the best. Yeah, we need someone like that. Our politicos are not very effective. Most stumble over the simplest questions.

371 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:54:20pm

re: #362 capitalist piglet

Speaking of racism, did you happen to see Barbara Boxer make a complete and utter ass of herself, addressing the head of the Black Chamber of Commerce?

I will not deny there is racism on the right, but the idea that none exists on the left is total bullshit. Senator Boxer is a case in point.

Video here.

372 DistantThunder  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:54:54pm

re: #366 pingjockey

I used to respect Anne, but she seems to have went off the rails too. Have a couple of her books even. Sad, really.

She's a shock jock. But because she is entertaining to a degree the likes of Bill Mahr are willing to spar with her. I think she's useful in exposing the left as hypocrites, and she does it in their own backyards. I think she plays a unique roll.

373 Chekote  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:55:37pm
Just find someone to lead the Republican Party and STOP attacking the fringe.

Sanford, Ensign are the fringe?

374 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:55:42pm

re: #359 DistantThunder

I don't think we want a leader. I think the buck shot approach from a wide variety of Republicans is best. The left focuses on demonizing any leader that pops up. Let them have to try to fight a whole number of people. My idea was to get an official spokesman like an Ari Fleisher type, that isn't running for anything, but can read messages from different republican cohorts and take questions. A Robert Gibbs type except she/he would have to be smart, and not be hideous.

That's actually a good idea. The problem with our leaders as of late is that if they are effective, the left attacks them without pause until they are no longer effective. If we have a variety of smaller sources, we might be more effective.

Having said that, I think that the disadvantages would outweigh the advantages at this point. We need a leader able to kick some of the crazies out of the party.

375 DistantThunder  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:55:49pm

re: #372 DistantThunder

She's a shock jock. But because she is entertaining to a degree the likes of Bill Mahr are willing to spar with her. I think she's useful in exposing the left as hypocrites, and she does it in their own backyards. I think she plays a unique roll.ROLE.

376 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:56:30pm

re: #371 NJDhockeyfan
The guy gave her what for too. That was great. She's an ass.

377 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:56:41pm

re: #326 quickjustice

It's well known within the GOP that Buchanan's always fishing to be bought off so he'll shut up.

QJ: Speaking of being "bought off," did you see this week's story about a major think tank on the take?

Conservative Group Offers
Support to Fed Ex for $2 Million

Pull quote:

The American Conservative Union asked FedEx for a check for $2 million to $3 million in return for the group’s support in a bitter legislative dispute, then the group’s chairman flipped and sided with UPS after FedEx refused to pay.

378 solomonpanting  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:57:37pm

re: #364 Pianobuff

Completely anecdotal but my wife is half-Asian. The Asian side is split roughly 80/20 Dem/Rep. Starting in the last couple of months in the election cycle through now I've been hearing more of them wonder "what they are doing wrong that they're being ignored". The general feeling is that AA is working for some minorities but not others and they are getting left out as a result.

"Ignored" in what way? What do they expect?

379 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:57:57pm

re: #376 pingjockey

The guy gave her what for too. That was great. She's an ass.

Here is another stupid race comment by a Dem.

Durbin: DC tops in abortion because its residents are black

380 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:58:09pm

re: #374 Dark_Falcon

That's actually a good idea. The problem with our leaders as of late is that if they are effective, the left attacks them without pause until they are no longer effective. If we have a variety of smaller sources, we might be more effective.

Having said that, I think that the disadvantages would outweigh the advantages at this point. We need a leader able to kick some of the crazies out of the party.

Damn, I miss William F. Buckley. He's the guy who originally ejected Pat Buchanan and the Birchers from the conservative movement.

And now that he's dead, they're BAAAaaack!

381 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:58:37pm

re: #372 DistantThunder
At times I think mwahaha, go get 'em, then other times I want to cringe. But on the whole I'd rather have her than Buchanan sparing with Mahr.

382 Irenicum  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:58:53pm

re: #284 LudwigVanQuixote

I don't know. I wouldn't mind them crashing on me.

383 subsailor68  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:58:54pm

Evening all! How odd that we are discussing two gentlemen of Irish descent. On the one hand, Pat Buchanan, on the other, Frank McCourt.

Pat Buchanan has spent his entire life spewing venom.

Frank McCourt spent his entire life celebrating the possibilities in every student - every person he met.

Rest in peace Mr. McCourt - you will be missed terribly.

Learn something Mr. Buchanan.

384 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:59:37pm

re: #362 capitalist piglet

Speaking of racism, did you happen to see Barbara Boxer make a complete and utter ass of herself, addressing the head of the Black Chamber of Commerce?

I will not deny there is racism on the right, but the idea that none exists on the left is total bullshit. Senator Boxer is a case in point.

That was classic! Right up there with Waters' "this democratic is going to be about socializing oil companies."

385 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 8:59:43pm

OK - Who wants to join the pool? Take a look at this.

Play "Name That Governor". Guesses?

386 Lynn B.  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:00:06pm

re: #350 DistantThunder

Her stuttering and stammering made her look like a bit of an airhead. Frankly, she is also one of the homeliest women I've seen on TV lately, and Obese to boot. Maybe she'll rule empathetically on cases where morbidly obese people were fired for incompetence.

I totally agree that she came off as an airhead. But I don't see how her physical appearance or weight bear on her qualifications (and to be perfectly honest, I don't find her unattractive when she isn't speaking). The stuttering and stammering in itself wouldn't bother me either. What did bother me was her tenuous grasp of her own arguments as well as the facts of recent Supreme Court cases of substantial renown (she bungled the facts in Kelo for ***'s sake!)

387 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:00:30pm

re: #379 NJDhockeyfan
Turban Durbin. That guy sticks his foot in his mouth as much or more than Biden.

388 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:00:59pm

Buckley would never tolerate the likes of Glenn Beck or Alex Jones tarnishing the conservative image.

He'd be speaking out against their conspiracy theory bullshit, loudly and often.

389 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:01:26pm

re: #380 Salamantis

Damn, I miss William F. Buckley. He's the guy who originally ejected Pat Buchanan and the Birchers from the conservative movement.

And now that he's dead, they're BAAAaaack!

I miss him too. He was witty, decent and he had the moral authority to kick out nuts. Frankly, I think conservatism in America may well stay disorganized for time. Unless a Buckley-eque leader can be found, we may need to wait until the conservative mainstream learns the hard way that nuts need to be kept at bay.

390 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:02:41pm

re: #357 pingjockey

Our Chairman is notably absent from the Sunday taliking head shows. Why is that? Either he has nothing to say or he can't get air time and I have a hard time believing that. Where the Hell is Michael Steele?

Ping: Michael Steele is hard at work cooking up fried chicken and potato salad for the Big Tent!

391 Irenicum  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:02:44pm

re: #296 Salamantis

Yeah, I think I've seen more than a few upstanding comments.

392 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:03:09pm

re: #378 solomonpanting

"Ignored" in what way? What do they expect?

That was my question to them as well. I can't say that they answer this well either. Generally stuff like *we wouldn't have had to work as hard if we gotten the same breaks* kind of stuff. I turn it off personally when I hear it, but the timing is just curious to me. Of course most of this doesn't relate to their personal situation and is just kind of a non-descript grievance thing. Annoying, it is.

393 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:03:46pm

re: #373 Chekote

Sanford, Ensign are the fringe?

Again, no. These two are embarrassments that need to be ousted.
I'm talking about the constant beating of the dead horse that Buchanan, Beck, Coulter, Hannity, etc are WACKOS!
SO FUCKING WHAT!
THEY are not leaders of the Republican Party. They are commentators. Bloviating opinion sputtering talking heads. None of them will raise my taxes or lead this country into socialism. ")", Pelosi, Reid, Kennedy, Boxer, Frank, etc WILL!

394 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:04:04pm

I found out the amount of money that I am supposed to collect for my son's wedding. Why can't he and his girlfriend get married on the beach, with 10 of their best and most loyal friends. Then we'll grill hot dogs and burgers.

I got married in my parents' backyard, back in the day. Why can't they do that?

What will happen if I can't raise that amount of money? I don't even have a steady job.

395 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:04:14pm

re: #389 Dark_Falcon

I miss him too. He was witty, decent and he had the moral authority to kick out nuts. Frankly, I think conservatism in America may well stay disorganized for time. Unless a Buckley-eque leader can be found, we may need to wait until the conservative mainstream learns the hard way that nuts need to be kept at bay.

Well, there's always that 12 year old kid if everyone is patient...heh.

396 pbird  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:04:55pm

re: #233 MandyManners

Breasts are supposed to flow?

Oh you know what he means, and he's correct. I'm a female and I can't stand to see those things on anyone.

397 capitalist piglet  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:05:39pm

re: #390 ShanghaiEd

Ping: Michael Steele is hard at work cooking up fried chicken and potato salad for the Big Tent!

Speaking of racism (again), remember how the left treated him at his public events?

398 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:06:25pm

re: #390 ShanghaiEd
Missed that little bit of stupidity. I had high expectations for that man. Damn, between the Luap Nor, Buchanan, Rush and the Snowes, ie damn near donks, he has no damn voice.

399 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:07:19pm

re: #362 capitalist piglet


I will not deny there is racism on the right, but the idea that none exists on the left is total bullshit. Senator Boxer is a case in point.

Hi, cp: Who on earth has said that no racism exists on the left? Certainly not me.

If you count the newsworthy macaca-type incidents of the past few years though, you have to admit that party affiliation leans heavily to the right. A snapshot in time, maybe, but still.

400 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:07:29pm

re: #350 DistantThunder

re: #343 Chekote


So when Roberts Alito or Scalia make decisions based on their ideology, it isn't judicial activism or legislating from the bench? I am really tired of the posturing and hypocrisy here. The appointment of Justicies, byt it's very nature has always had a political element. If you don't like her politics then that is one thing, but it does not make her stupid or un-qualified for the post.

As to the Lady's looks,

I am actually sorry and appalled now that I made light hearted discussion about implants. I suppose it is a good thing for you then that you will never date her. How would you respond to a commenter who said nasty things about the attractiveness of certain Republican women? Do ya think Barbara Bush was less of a first lady because she was not so attractive? It is not as if any woman in politics is there to be a sex symbol.

Soon to be Justice Sotomayor is honestly, on paper, vastly more qualified than Roberts. I know that may not sit well with some of you, but she has more, and more varied experience with the law than he does. I am not saying I like all of her descisions, but to digress to mean spirited name calling is simply not right.

401 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:08:57pm

re: #394 Alouette
It is your son, tell him straight up what is up!

402 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:09:02pm

re: #395 Pianobuff

Well, there's always that 12 year old kid if everyone is patient...heh.

Maybe he'll show real ability, maybe not. He'd need to speak more easily, and focus less on planning points and more on making conservative ideas attractive.

403 Lynn B.  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:09:11pm

Ok, I'm turning in. But before I do, since I had an extra shot of Irish whiskey after dinner and more than a bit of wine with (IFR be damned) ...

oh, never mind. I'd just regret it tomorrow.

404 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:09:14pm

re: #389 Dark_Falcon

I miss him too. He was witty, decent and he had the moral authority to kick out nuts. Frankly, I think conservatism in America may well stay disorganized for time. Unless a Buckley-eque leader can be found, we may need to wait until the conservative mainstream learns the hard way that nuts need to be kept at bay.

Well, at least we Lizards have Charles.

I'm not saying that he's a Goldwater or Buckley, but if Goldwater was conservatism's Feynmann (quantum mechanics) and Buckley was its Einstein (relativity theory), Charles is like Garrett Lisi, the laid back physicist surfer dewde whose E8 theory may well have advanced the field by integrating the two.

405 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:09:31pm

re: #400 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #343 Chekote


So when Roberts Alito or Scalia make decisions based on their ideology, it isn't judicial activism or legislating from the bench? I am really tired of the posturing and hypocrisy here. The appointment of Justicies, byt it's very nature has always had a political element. If you don't like her politics then that is one thing, but it does not make her stupid or un-qualified for the post.

As to the Lady's looks,

I am actually sorry and appalled now that I made light hearted discussion about implants. I suppose it is a good thing for you then that you will never date her. How would you respond to a commenter who said nasty things about the attractiveness of certain Republican women? Do ya think Barbara Bush was less of a first lady because she was not so attractive? It is not as if any woman in politics is there to be a sex symbol.

Soon to be Justice Sotomayor is honestly, on paper, vastly more qualified than Roberts. I know that may not sit well with some of you, but she has more, and more varied experience with the law than he does. I am not saying I like all of her descisions, but to digress to mean spirited name calling is simply not right.


That's why they play the game.

406 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:09:51pm

re: #397 capitalist piglet

Speaking of racism (again), remember how the left treated him at his public events?

We can combine it all now.......

Chicken Fried Oreos!

//// I'm so bad!

407 Chekote  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:10:01pm
THEY are not leaders of the Republican Party. They are commentators.

I happen to agree with you. However, whenever someone says that Rush or others are commentators and not leaders of the GOP, some of their fans go berzerk.

408 lobo91  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:10:49pm

re: #399 ShanghaiEd

Hi, cp: Who on earth has said that no racism exists on the left? Certainly not me.

If you count the newsworthy macaca-type incidents of the past few years though, you have to admit that party affiliation leans heavily to the right. A snapshot in time, maybe, but still.

And of course that has nothing to do with the fact that it's the left who decides what's "newsworthy," I suppose.

409 subsailor68  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:11:21pm

re: #394 Alouette

I found out the amount of money that I am supposed to collect for my son's wedding. Why can't he and his girlfriend get married on the beach, with 10 of their best and most loyal friends. Then we'll grill hot dogs and burgers.

I got married in my parents' backyard, back in the day. Why can't they do that?

What will happen if I can't raise that amount of money? I don't even have a steady job.

Hi Alouette! I may have missed the earlier comments on this, but - isn't the wedding normally the parents of the bride's responsibility? Bless your heart for wanting something nice for your son, but I'm with you...a nice, small ceremony is beautiful.

When my wife and I got married, we actually paid for the wedding...neither her parents, nor mine, had anything to do with it - other to attend, have a lovely day, and celebrate it with us.

Of course, back then - when we were young - the peasants from all the lands brought fresh vegetables and gifts of new born lambs, sweet meats, and casks of mead....

It was cool.

;-)

410 freetoken  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:12:14pm

re: #400 LudwigVanQuixote

Just wait for President Obama's next SC nominee! The heat really will be on then for the GOP to vote NO.

411 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:12:43pm

re: #394 Alouette

I found out the amount of money that I am supposed to collect for my son's wedding. Why can't he and his girlfriend get married on the beach, with 10 of their best and most loyal friends. Then we'll grill hot dogs and burgers.

I got married in my parents' backyard, back in the day. Why can't they do that?

What will happen if I can't raise that amount of money? I don't even have a steady job.

Since I and my former wife met in college, we got married on campus.

412 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:13:37pm

re: #406 jcm

We can combine it all now.......

Chicken Fried Oreos!

//// I'm so bad!


Ever had a deep fried pickle? Tastes like a pickle.

413 capitalist piglet  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:13:48pm

re: #399 ShanghaiEd

Hi, cp: Who on earth has said that no racism exists on the left? Certainly not me.

If you count the newsworthy macaca-type incidents of the past few years though, you have to admit that party affiliation leans heavily to the right. A snapshot in time, maybe, but still.

Hi, Ed: I would admit no such thing. It just manifests itself differently on the left. Did you see the Boxer video? I contend that her attitude is as racist as anything I've seen on the right, and I would also contend that her attitude is not uncommon among people who share her political viewpoint.

And incidentally, it wasn't the right throwing Oreo cookies at Michael Steele.

414 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:15:17pm

re: #412 BignJames

Ever had a deep fried pickle? Tastes like a pickle.

Not much of a pickle person to begin with, also I'm not much for frying things god didn't mean to be fried! ;-P

415 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:16:01pm

re: #413 capitalist piglet

Hi, Ed: I would admit no such thing. It just manifests itself differently on the left. Did you see the Boxer video? I contend that her attitude is as racist as anything I've seen on the right, and I would also contend that her attitude is not uncommon among people who share her political viewpoint.

And incidentally, it wasn't the right throwing Oreo cookies at Michael Steele.

Racists on the right fear that minorities will fulfill their stereotypes of them; racists on the left fear that they won't.

416 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:16:46pm

re: #414 jcm

Not much of a pickle person to begin with, also I'm not much for frying things god didn't mean to be fried! ;-P


Yeah, I didn't get it it either...didn't understand the attraction.

417 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:17:11pm

re: #414 jcm

You need to go to the Texas state fair. That is where a lot of this fried craziness comes from!

418 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:17:25pm

re: #415 Salamantis

Racists on the right fear that minorities will fulfill their stereotypes of them; racists on the left fear that they won't.

And the same rule applies to sexists and homophobes in both camps.

419 Chekote  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:17:31pm
So when Roberts Alito or Scalia make decisions based on their ideology, it isn't judicial activism or legislating from the bench? I am really tired of the posturing and hypocrisy here

Roberts, Aliton and Scalia are not activist in the sense that they believe that the Constitution means what it says. Activist judges don't believe that the Constitution means what it says. So they start to make stuff up. You know their imagination go ACTIVE.

420 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:17:35pm

re: #410 freetoken

Just wait for President Obama's next SC nominee! The heat really will be on then for the GOP to vote NO.

And they will have already discredited themselves with the fools they are making of themselves now, so they will be able to do even less about it.

421 RunningBare  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:17:46pm

Some of my best friends are white.

422 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:18:43pm

re: #407 Chekote

Well that just shows the aptitude of those fans.
Rush is NOT the leader nor spokesman of the Republican Party

423 pingjockey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:18:55pm

g'night folks!

424 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:18:56pm

re: #416 BignJames

Yeah, I didn't get it it either...didn't understand the attraction.

Now a Chicken Fried Steak, sausage gravy, with a few eggs and sausage links, hash browns.... that's my choice for a heart attack on a plate.

425 capitalist piglet  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:19:36pm

re: #421 RunningBare

Some of my best friends are white.

Hey! : )

Didn't I once give you a button that said something about some of your friends being white? What did that say again?

Good to see you!

426 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:20:01pm

re: #417 pingjockey

You need to go to the Texas state fair. That is where a lot of this fried craziness comes from!

The Texas verison of "WILL IT BLEND"....

WILL IT FRY!

427 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:20:04pm

re: #419 Chekote

Roberts, Aliton and Scalia are not activist in the sense that they believe that the Constitution means what it says. Activist judges don't believe that the Constitution means what it says. So they start to make stuff up. You know their imagination go ACTIVE.

The Constitution says that the justices will interpret the Constitution. That means they decide what it says. That is how our system works.

Right of privacy, to prevent unlawful abuse of power by police and military is a good thing for instance.

428 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:21:06pm

re: #398 pingjockey

Missed that little bit of stupidity. I had high expectations for that man. Damn, between the Luap Nor, Buchanan, Rush and the Snowes, ie damn near donks, he has no damn voice.

Part of the problem is that I doubt he could take on Ron Paul or Glen Beck right now. Both of them are more popular in the party than he is. It terrifies me to say this but if Michael Steele were to try to read Ron Paul out of the party, the smart money would have bet on his getting removed instead. Perhaps that is how it must be; That the GOP has not yet hit bottom and must endure yet more before being willing to hear reason. In such times, the most we can do is save what we can and wait.

429 Syrah  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:21:18pm

Race-centric thinking is . . . pretty darned useless.

430 swamprat  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:21:22pm

re: #390 ShanghaiEd


[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

431 RunningBare  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:22:26pm

re: #413 capitalist piglet

Hi, Ed: I would admit no such thing. It just manifests itself differently on the left. Did you see the Boxer video? I contend that her attitude is as racist as anything I've seen on the right, and I would also contend that her attitude is not uncommon among people who share her political viewpoint.

And incidentally, it wasn't the right throwing Oreo cookies at Michael Steele.

I know I've said this to you a hundred times or more, but for me it's really simple. If someone walks up to me and says, "I dont' like you, chief, cuz you're a no good lazy savage..." it's a lot easier to deal with than someone walking up to you and saying, "Oh you poor dear. You're entirely incapable of taking care of yourself and getting ahead in this world. Let us give you an unfair advantage, so you can feel good about you...".

I honestly dont' know which is a worse form of racism.

432 philip  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:22:27pm

As long as Buchanan or any white supremacist view has support from even a tiny minority in the GOP, it will not be a party I will be part of.

Sadly, I think the GOP is no longer a party where Jews, blacks, gays and other minorities can feel welcome.

433 Chekote  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:23:50pm

re: #427 LudwigVanQuixote

It is one thing to interpret. Another to make stuff up. The Constitution does address unlawful searches and seizures. Seriously, how can someone read the Constitution with its equal protection clause and come to the conclusion that race based quotes are constitutional?

434 RunningBare  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:24:05pm

re: #425 capitalist piglet

Hey! : )

Didn't I once give you a button that said something about some of your friends being white? What did that say again?

Good to see you!

Yeah, I still have that somewhere. I'll have to dig it out, and wear it to work. The Acadamia nuts will appreciate it, I'm sure ;)

435 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:24:39pm

re: #432 philip

Very dramatic.......and very wrong.

436 realwest  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:25:02pm

Good evening y'all - I'm a tad late - we still talking about that Nazi Pat Buchanan?

437 RunningBare  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:26:01pm

And for the record, I believe the button read, "Some of my best friends are white males". :)

438 lobo91  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:26:09pm

re: #427 LudwigVanQuixote

The Constitution says that the justices will interpret the Constitution. That means they decide what it says. That is how our system works.

No, it doesn't, and no, it's not. There's not a damn word in the Constitution that gives that power to the legislative branch.

The framers thought that future generations would be at least as smart as they were, and would be able to read English. They were apparently wrong in that assumption.

439 Syrah  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:26:25pm

re: #433 Chekote

It is one thing to interpret. Another to make stuff up. The Constitution does address unlawful searches and seizures. Seriously, how can someone read the Constitution with its equal protection clause and come to the conclusion that race based quotes are constitutional?

"penumbra"
"living constitution".

If they have a result that they want, they just make shit up to justify it, knowing that no one really has the means to stop them.

440 Chekote  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:26:37pm
Rush is NOT the leader nor spokesman of the Republican Party

I agree. I have enjoyed his show for years. I think he is a great political commentator and entertainer. But you saw what happened to Steele for suggesting that Rush was not the leader of the GOP. Rush and his fans slapped Steele around. He has been a gelding ever since.

441 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:26:38pm

re: #413 capitalist piglet

Hi, Ed: I would admit no such thing. It just manifests itself differently on the left. Did you see the Boxer video? I contend that her attitude is as racist as anything I've seen on the right, and I would also contend that her attitude is not uncommon among people who share her political viewpoint.

And incidentally, it wasn't the right throwing Oreo cookies at Michael Steele.

I've never been a Boxer supporter or defender, cp.

As for Steele, I think you'll find the oreo story is essentially an urban legend. Even Steele himself says he was not "pelted" with cookies, just that he saw some afterward.

442 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:27:16pm

re: #437 RunningBare

"Blueish? You don't look Blueish."

Blue Meanie, Yellow Submarine...........

443 realwest  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:27:36pm

re: #430 swamprat
Hey swamprat - about four LGFer's e-mailed me with your link about the treatment for radiation sickness!
Thank you SO MUCH for thinking of me.
Unfortuantely, the article explains that the FDA will "fast track" it and it may be available in 1-2 years and that will probably be too late for me, but who knows, maybe I can get into some trials or something!
THANK you again so very much for thinking of me!

444 Chekote  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:27:39pm
If they have a result that they want, they just make shit up to justify it, knowing that no one really has the means to stop them.

Perhaps, it is time to push for term limits on SCOTUS.

445 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:29:27pm

re: #436 realwest

Good evening y'all - I'm a tad late - we still talking about that Nazi Pat Buchanan?

Yep, we're still trying to figure out how to exorcise him and his ilk from the party. Perhaps Bobby Jindal can help us with that.

///////////

446 subsailor68  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:29:41pm

re: #432 philip

As long as Buchanan or any white supremacist view has support from even a tiny minority in the GOP, it will not be a party I will be part of.

Sadly, I think the GOP is no longer a party where Jews, blacks, gays and other minorities can feel welcome.

I'm so sorry you feel that way. Certainly the GOP has some problems, but I - for one - am not ready to cede the party to the likes of Buchanan, Coulter, Beck, or Hannity. I'd rather find folks to represent the party based on the class and dedication of people like Buckley, Reagan, and Goldwater.

And while I'm at it, I'd be grateful if the Democrats would find folks like Truman, John Kennedy, and Daniel Patrick Moynihan to represent them - not Maddow, Franken, Pelosi, Franks, and Reid.

But that's just me.

;-)

447 Syrah  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:29:42pm

re: #444 Chekote

Perhaps, it is time to push for term limits on SCOTUS.

SCOTUS is not the problem.

The problem is at the citizen level. The voters get want they want, sometimes they get it good and hard.

448 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:30:19pm

re: #440 Chekote

I listened to Rush BEFORE he went national. Always found him to be a blowhard.
Agree with him 75% - 80% of the time but he doesn't speak for me.

Now I'm going to go skateboarding........later.

449 RunningBare  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:30:49pm

re: #432 philip

As long as Buchanan or any white supremacist view has support from even a tiny minority in the GOP, it will not be a party I will be part of.

Sadly, I think the GOP is no longer a party where Jews, blacks, gays and other minorities can feel welcome.

Weird. As a minority, I've felt welcome since I first became interested in politics back in the 70s. Never had an issue. I have been, and always am, treated decently at conservative and republican events.

When I have the misfortune to be around large numbers of liberals, I always end up having to deal with, listen to, and act like I care about what they are saying as they try to alleviate their "white guilt" or whatever it is that makes them want to patronize me so they can feel better about themselves for "making a difference", or whatever. It's all a buncha horseshit if you ask me.

450 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:30:55pm

re: #427 LudwigVanQuixote

The Constitution says that the justices will interpret the Constitution. That means they decide what it says. That is how our system works.

Right of privacy, to prevent unlawful abuse of power by police and military is a good thing for instance.

But they do not get invent things that are not in Constitution. Like Wicker, where because a individual farmer might have some effect on interstate commerce the Feds can regulate him, or like Roe where it took emanations of penumbras to create out of whole cloth the Federally Protected right to abortion, and whole list of other decisions.

They can decided what is Unconstitutional. They have no power to create new Constitutional matters out of thin air.

The amendment process is in place to do that. That gives all branches and the people, and the states a say in the matter. Not 9 unelected, life term people.

451 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:31:39pm

That interchange with Boxer and the Black Chamber of Commerce President was fascinating. She was basically saying 'What the hell is wrong with you, why don't you agree with the NAACP ?'.

452 lobo91  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:31:44pm

re: #432 philip

As long as Buchanan or any white supremacist view has support from even a tiny minority in the GOP, it will not be a party I will be part of.

Since US political parties aren't something one actually has to "join" in any formal sense, pretty much anyone with any off the wall view can claim membership in any party.

If you're more comfortable being part of a party that counts among its elected officeholders a former leader of the KKK, feel free to check the Democrat box on your voter registration card.

We won't miss you.

453 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:31:46pm

re: #440 Chekote

I agree. I have enjoyed his show for years. I think he is a great political commentator and entertainer. But you saw what happened to Steele for suggesting that Rush was not the leader of the GOP. Rush and his fans slapped Steele around. He has been a gelding ever since.

That's what I mean: Steele is not as popular within his own party as people like Rush or Glen Beck and this fact makes it impossible for him to take action against them. In many ways, Michael Steele is only a figurehead.

454 Irenicum  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:32:05pm

re: #394 Alouette

They should do what my mother's parents did, elope. They stayed married till they died. And they were cool too. I learned everything I know about baseball from my grandpa. And my grandma was a hip, fashion conscious seamstress who had a skinny little notepad next to her phone that said "A scratch pad for narrow minded bastards". What could be better? Man I miss them!

455 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:32:08pm

re: #438 lobo91

No, it doesn't, and no, it's not. There's not a damn word in the Constitution that gives that power to the legislative branch.

The framers thought that future generations would be at least as smart as they were, and would be able to read English. They were apparently wrong in that assumption.

You might find this part of the Constitution shocking then.

Section 2 - Trial by Jury, Original Jurisdiction, Jury Trials

The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party; to Controversies between two or more States; between a State and Citizens of another State; between Citizens of different States; between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

Italics mine

456 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:32:33pm

re: #436 realwest

Good evening y'all - I'm a tad late - we still talking about that Nazi Pat Buchanan?

Heil Pat!

Youtube Video
457 Gus  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:33:17pm

re: #441 ShanghaiEd

I've never been a Boxer supporter or defender, cp.

As for Steele, I think you'll find the oreo story is essentially an urban legend. Even Steele himself says he was not "pelted" with cookies, just that he saw some afterward.

...

“You cannot go into a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I’m not joking.”

- Joe Biden

458 Chekote  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:34:06pm

re: #453 Dark_Falcon

Yup! Oh well, tomorrow is another day. G-nite to all!

459 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:34:23pm

re: #450 jcm

But they do not get invent things that are not in Constitution. Like Wicker, where because a individual farmer might have some effect on interstate commerce the Feds can regulate him, or like Roe where it took emanations of penumbras to create out of whole cloth the Federally Protected right to abortion, and whole list of other decisions.

They can decided what is Unconstitutional. They have no power to create new Constitutional matters out of thin air.

The amendment process is in place to do that. That gives all branches and the people, and the states a say in the matter. Not 9 unelected, life term people.

See my #455 and Marbury vs. Madison.

460 Irenicum  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:34:35pm

re: #400 LudwigVanQuixote

Amen!

461 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:34:48pm

Could not sleep ... so just been listening to music ...

Childhood living ... is easy to do ... the things you wanted ...

Youtube Video
463 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:35:33pm

re: #460 Irenicum

Amen!

Thank you.

464 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:35:51pm

re: #451 MrPaulRevere

That interchange with Boxer and the Black Chamber of Commerce President was fascinating. She was basically saying 'What the hell is wrong with you, why don't you agree with the NAACP ?'.

Boxer thinks that any sane and decent black person is on her side, therefore anyone who disagrees with her is either crazy, evil, or both. She's a fanatical leftist, and her beliefs are typical of the breed.

465 capitalist piglet  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:36:16pm

re: #441 ShanghaiEd

I've never been a Boxer supporter or defender, cp.

As for Steele, I think you'll find the oreo story is essentially an urban legend. Even Steele himself says he was not "pelted" with cookies, just that he saw some afterward.

Oh, the Oreos didn't hit him. I suppose I should be consoled by that, but for some reason, the fact that some jerks showed up with Oreos still bothers me just a little bit, Ed.

What do you think of the Boxer video? Do you think that attitude is fairly common on the left, or is she an aberration, in your mind?

466 leftover54  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:36:17pm

re: #7 Taqyia2Me

This'll take the harsh spotlight off the "Free" "Healthcare" for "All" pile of steaming fecal matter being forced down the throat of America.
Almost as if the marxists are paying for this kind of diversion.

Please allow me to do my little part in helping to put it back in the spotlight - a must if you are not independently wealthy
or dirt poor:

Health Care Legislation - a thing or two you may not be aware of...

Make sure your volume is turned up and be prepared to
experience that 'Twilight Zone' feeling... 'cept this is reality.

467 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:38:01pm

A couple of points of view on Sotomayor's performance:

Elaborating on his strong words about Judge Sotomayor's hearing performance, Georgetown law professor Louis Michael Seidman writes:

I want to elaborate on some of the (perhaps intemperate) comments I made last night. There's no denying that Republicans on the committee put Judge Sotomayor in a difficult moral position, and I need not elaborate on their own culpability for doing so. Either Judge Sotomayor had to misrepresent what she knows judges (all judges, conservative and liberal) do in hard cases, or she had to risk defeat. I'm willing to concede that this is not an easy choice, but I nonetheless think that she made a serious mistake. To his tremendous credit, President Obama has made an effort in his public statements to shift the official ideology of judging so that it has some contact with reality. Yesterday, Judge Sotomayor explicitly repudiated the President. Here are some of the consequences of this kind of unilateral disarmament:

1. It means that the only people who end up on the Supreme Court are either naïfs or cynics.

2. It means that every official act that a justice takes deepens the corrosive cognitive dissonance between what she pretends to do and what she actually does. This kind of deep hypocrisy imposes psychic costs that, at some point, are bound to have an effect on decision-making.

3. Anyone who knows anything about law knows that the official version is a lie, but many Americans don't know anything about law. To them, the official version sounds plausible. Reinforcing that version has a terrible effect on the possibility of serious public deliberation about constitutional law.

The pity is that all of this was probably unnecessary. The Democrats have sixty votes in the Senate. It would have taken some courage for Judge Sotomayor to have told the truth, but not much. She said yesterday that judges should never decide cases out of fear. Yesterday, she testified out of fear. We have a right to expect better of her.

Radford University's Matthew J. Franck replies:

For my part I find the president's account of the role of "empathy" in judging to be alarming, and I would welcome Judge Sotomayor's repudiation of his arguments—if I believed her. Frankly, I don't.

I think I know what you mean by the "official version" of what judges do. I agree with you that "applying law to facts" is too simplistic to capture the nuances of what Felix Frankfurter called "judicial judgment." But if it's not where I would stop, it's not a bad place to start. And if you mean to say that the political convictions of judges are either a) inevitably a part of their legal judgments or b) desirable elements of the same, then I disagree. Certainly their political convictions are not desirable elements in judicial judgment, and to the extent that they inevitably creep in, they should be minimized as close to the vanishing point as possible by every conscious effort a judge can muster.

Judge Sotomayor, in the speeches from which she now flees unconvincingly—sorry, I mean which she now assures us were misunderstood—takes the view that gender and ethnicity influence the convictions of the judge, which in turn influence legal outcomes. Like the president, she celebrated this rather than worrying about it. Now she sings a different tune.

468 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:38:32pm

re: #430 swamprat

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

Hey, swamp! Happy Sunday to you.

Far be it from me to question the truthfulness of Free Republic, but I followed all the links from that comment and don't see any source for the information except IrishMike's declaration that VonBrunn "appears to be" a registered Democrat.

IrishMike has never lied to me personally, but if you see any documentation in that chain of links besides "appears to be," I'll note it and acknowledge my surprise. OK?

469 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:39:44pm

Eric Holder makes quiet visit to mosque to meet with Muslim Americans

Atty. Gen. Eric Holder Jr. made a well-publicized visit to Los Angeles this week to announce stimulus grants to help fight drug trafficking and to help the victims of domestic violence. But in a quieter event not announced to the news media or public, Holder stopped at a mosque to meet with Muslim American youths.

“The point was to engage the Muslim community here in Los Angeles and make sure they understand this administration’s commitment to work with that community,” Justice Department spokesman Matthew Miller said.

470 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:40:35pm

re: #455 LudwigVanQuixote

You might find this part of the Constitution shocking then.

Section 2 - Trial by Jury, Original Jurisdiction, Jury Trials

The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party; to Controversies between two or more States; between a State and Citizens of another State; between Citizens of different States; between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

Italics mine

It still doesn't not allow the SCOTUS or any court to CREATE laws or RIGHTS, and it certainly doesn't extend a case like Roe, which abrogates the 10th Amendment. That allows them to rule on the Constitutionality of law, not make shit up.

471 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:41:33pm

re: #469 NJDhockeyfan

Eric Holder makes quiet visit to mosque to meet with Muslim Americans

I'm fine with that. I'm all for working with those Muslims willing to work with us. If they are will to act in good faith, so should we.

472 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:41:50pm

re: #465 capitalist piglet

Oh, the Oreos didn't hit him. I suppose I should be consoled by that, but for some reason, the fact that some jerks showed up with Oreos still bothers me just a little bit, Ed.

What do you think of the Boxer video? Do you think that attitude is fairly common on the left, or is she an aberration, in your mind?

Since judicial appointments have already been mentioned on this thread, I wonder if anyone here believes that the Borking of Estrada was racially motivated as well.

473 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:42:56pm

re: #471 Dark_Falcon

I'm fine with that. I'm all for working with those Muslims willing to work with us. If they are will to act in good faith, so should we.

I agree. I don't understand the secrecy of the visit though.

474 realwest  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:43:17pm

re: #432 philip With all due respect, if you think conservatives or Republicans are racists, Anti-Semites or homophobic you're wrong.
Are there racists, Anti-Semites or homophobes in the Republican Party - I have no doubt.
But keep in mind that until 1968, the Democrats were the party of the Jim Crow laws which sought to and did keep Black people down - all through the South - with bs literacy tests for blacks to take - and fail after being judged by white Democrats - to be able to VOTE, with separate but equal facilities for education, eating and riding on the back of the bus only treatment) all white, segregated public schools. (and YES, President Dwight Eisenhower - a Republican, did send the 82nd Airborne Division down to Arkansas to stop Democratic Governor Orval Faubus from preventing black children from entering previously) For a better take on this, y'all might want to go see [Link: afrocityblog.wordpress.com...] a blog run by a Black, conservative Woman, who is also an LGFer, and get an earful from her and her commenters on the way the Democrat Party treats not just Blacks, but Jews and gays as well.
Y'all could also Wiki and then google "Log Cabin Republicans" who are Gay Republicans.
Oh, and ever since William F. Buckley Jr. threw Pat Buchanan out of the conservative movement in the pages of National Review, Buchanan has been nothing more that an opportunistic White Supremacist/Nazi, frequently purporting to represent Republicans and conservatives and alas, Mr. Buckley has passed away and I can't think of anyone on the National Scene who could rightfully claim Mr. Buckley's leadership of the Conservative movement in this country or if I did, I have no doubt that they would disown his ass ASAP.

475 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:43:41pm

re: #470 jcm

It still doesn't not allow the SCOTUS or any court to CREATE laws or RIGHTS, and it certainly doesn't extend a case like Roe, which abrogates the 10th Amendment. That allows them to rule on the Constitutionality of law, not make shit up.

So where did we get the implied right of privacy or Judicial Review from?
That was my point about Marbury vs. Madison. Since that has been unchallenged precident since the Adams administration, the fact is that the court really did give itself that right.

476 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:44:47pm

re: #474 realwest

With all due respect, if you think conservatives or Republicans are racists, Anti-Semites or homophobic you're wrong.
Are there racists, Anti-Semites or homophobes in the Republican Party - I have no doubt.
But keep in mind that until 1968, the Democrats were the party of the Jim Crow laws which sought to and did keep Black people down - all through the South - with bs literacy tests for blacks to take - and fail after being judged by white Democrats - to be able to VOTE, with separate but equal facilities for education, eating and riding on the back of the bus only treatment) all white, segregated public schools. (and YES, President Dwight Eisenhower - a Republican, did send the 82nd Airborne Division down to Arkansas to stop Democratic Governor Orval Faubus from preventing black children from entering previously) For a better take on this, y'all might want to go see [Link: afrocityblog.wordpress.com...] a blog run by a Black, conservative Woman, who is also an LGFer, and get an earful from her and her commenters on the way the Democrat Party treats not just Blacks, but Jews and gays as well.
Y'all could also Wiki and then google "Log Cabin Republicans" who are Gay Republicans.
Oh, and ever since William F. Buckley Jr. threw Pat Buchanan out of the conservative movement in the pages of National Review, Buchanan has been nothing more that an opportunistic White Supremacist/Nazi, frequently purporting to represent Republicans and conservatives and alas, Mr. Buckley has passed away and I can't think of anyone on the National Scene who could rightfully claim Mr. Buckley's leadership of the Conservative movement in this country or if I did, I have no doubt that they would disown his ass ASAP.

repectfully, the problem with the GOP in some sense is that all of those dixiecrats, like Strom Thurmon became Republicans.

477 swamprat  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:45:13pm

re: #432 philip

As long as Buchanan or any white supremacist view has support from even a tiny minority in the GOP, it will not be a party I will be part of.

Sadly, I think the GOP is no longer a party where Jews, blacks, gays and other minorities can feel welcome.

Sadly, the southern Democrat bigotry has bee swept under the rug, while people forget that Lincoln was a Republican. People forget that Byrd is a democrat. People forget that David Duke felt at home in the Democrat party. In fact, the whole history of the Klan being almost exclusively made up of influential Democrats has been largely forgotten. People forget that Dr. Martin Luther King was a registered Republican. But don't let any facts dissuade you from popular "knowledge".

479 realwest  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:46:13pm

re: #445 Dark_Falcon
Well I can only think of one way to get Pukanan to drop the "R" after his name, but if I suggest it, I'm afraid Charles would ban me. And rightfully so.

480 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:46:18pm

re: #465 capitalist piglet

Oh, the Oreos didn't hit him. I suppose I should be consoled by that, but for some reason, the fact that some jerks showed up with Oreos still bothers me just a little bit, Ed.

What do you think of the Boxer video? Do you think that attitude is fairly common on the left, or is she an aberration, in your mind?

cp, the Boxer video speaks for itself. She's a fanatic, and unstable besides.

Terms like "fairly common" and "aberration" are abstractions, and I prefer to stick with specifics. What if we compromise for the evening and say racism is equally a problem on the Right and Left? Is that fair?

481 RunningBare  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:46:20pm

re: #464 Dark_Falcon

Boxer thinks that any sane and decent black person is on her side, therefore anyone who disagrees with her is either crazy, evil, or both. She's a fanatical leftist, and her beliefs are typical of the breed.

Yup. If you're black, don't you dare "get uppity" and leave "the plantation", or you are an Uncle Tom sell-out, if you're indian don't "get uppity" and "go off the rez", or you're an Apple, race-traitor etc...

Grrrr...

482 Gus  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:46:21pm

32% (Nearly 1/3rd) of Democrats Blame Jews for Economic Crisis

32% Democrats
18.4% Republicans

(Stanford Poll)

483 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:46:41pm

re: #473 NJDhockeyfan

I agree. I don't understand the secrecy of the visit though.

He din't want his visit to fuel conspiracy theories, perhaps. Or maybe he wanted to talk the people he was meeting without any reporters around.

484 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:46:54pm

re: #464 Dark_Falcon

Did you catch that dig he made at the beginning where he basically called her a carpetbagger? And then she says 'this is friendly OK?', like she is mystified as to why any black person would question her motives? After all, she is the great white protector /

485 realwest  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:47:15pm

re: #446 subsailor68
Nope sub my friend, it's NOT just you!

486 Pianobuff  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:47:57pm

re: #484 MrPaulRevere

Did you catch that dig he made at the beginning where he basically called her a carpetbagger? And then she says 'this is friendly OK?', like she is mystified as to why any black person would question her motives? After all, she is the great white protector /

I'm so embarrassed she represents my state.

487 realwest  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:49:23pm

re: #456 jcm
Great one jcm - oh, btw, y'all have some e-mail waiting for you!

488 Steffan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:49:47pm

re: #465 capitalist piglet

Oh, the Oreos didn't hit him. I suppose I should be consoled by that, but for some reason, the fact that some jerks showed up with Oreos still bothers me just a little bit, Ed.

What do you think of the Boxer video? Do you think that attitude is fairly common on the left, or is she an aberration, in your mind?

Boxer's attitude is actually pretty prevalent on the Left.

Anyone who disagrees with her is Evil.

Black people who disagree with her, or who espouse conservative views, are Doubly Evil.

Black people who publically disagree with her because of their conservative values are Evil Beyond The Point Of Redemption. That, I'm afraid, is where Mr. Alford is at the moment.

489 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:49:51pm

re: #464 Dark_Falcon

Boxer thinks that any sane and decent black person is on her side, therefore anyone who disagrees with her is either crazy, evil, or both. She's a fanatical leftist, and her beliefs are typical of the breed.

DF: See what you think about my revision...

Boxer thinks that any sane and decent person is on her side, therefore anyone who disagrees with her is either crazy, evil, or both. She's a fanatic, and her beliefs are typical of the breed.

If you'll accept those small changes, I'll sign on to your statement 100%. Deal?

490 swamprat  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:49:55pm

re: #480 ShanghaiEd

cp, the Boxer video speaks for itself. She's a fanatic, and unstable besides.

Terms like "fairly common" and "aberration" are abstractions, and I prefer to stick with specifics. What if we compromise for the evening and say racism is a problem

491 subsailor68  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:50:01pm

Regarding the Constitution of the United States, I will say that I have read every word of it.

I stole Robert Byrd's copy while he wasn't waving it around the Senate floor.

As best I can tell, it's pretty straightforward. Senator Byrd's copy includes some notes that I found interesting:

"Sounds about right."
"Nope, can't abide that kind of thinking."
"Send this to Billy Bob in legislative affairs - it just don't sound right."
"Bullshit. That needs fixin."
"Amendment, schmendment. They repealed prohibition dammit."
"Hey! This one looks like I can name just about anything I want after myself, as long as I can fit interstate commerce into it somehow."

My feeling: just because someone jumps up and waves the document around doesn't necessarily mean we need to think they're either a) an expert or b) defending it.

(And no, Senator Byrd, I didn't really filch your copy.)

492 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:51:14pm

re: #482 Gus 802

32% (Nearly 1/3rd) of Democrats Blame Jews for Economic Crisis

32% Democrats
18.4% Republicans

(Stanford Poll)

Well, that proves that there are too many loons in both parties. Geeze, I never dreamed that Antisemitism was this bad these days.

493 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:51:32pm

Britain Lifts Ban on Michael Savage

494 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:51:54pm

re: #489 ShanghaiEd

DF: See what you think about my revision...

Boxer thinks that any sane and decent person is on her side, therefore anyone who disagrees with her is either crazy, evil, or both. She's a fanatic, and her beliefs are typical of the breed.

If you'll accept those small changes, I'll sign on to your statement 100%. Deal?

Deal.

495 Syrah  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:52:23pm

re: #479 realwest

The party does not have the means to expel someone from the party.

I can't think of any way for the party to disassociate itself from him and the likes of him with out making it a policy to "not a true Scotsman" the kook every time he pops up somewhere.

496 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:52:37pm

re: #482 Gus 802

32% (Nearly 1/3rd) of Democrats Blame Jews for Economic Crisis

32% Democrats
18.4% Republicans

(Stanford Poll)

Fuck me. One of the things that all Jewish people need to remember is that when one of us does something wrong, all of us are seen to do something wrong. You could list dozens of crooked financiers who are not Jewish. You could remind people that many of Madoff's most prominant victims were Jews themselves, it does not matter.

The fact is that when you are a Jew, you need to be as pristine as possible if only because you are always, like it or not, fair or not, representing all of us.

497 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:52:56pm

re: #475 LudwigVanQuixote

So where did we get the implied right of privacy or Judicial Review from?
That was my point about Marbury vs. Madison. Since that has been unchallenged precident since the Adams administration, the fact is that the court really did give itself that right.

Because court did that does that make it right?

The court decided Dred Scott to, it must have been right then also?

The same courts that somehow found that the right to privacy, extends to and binds all states, with Sotomayor and the 3rd circuit found the 2nd doesn't extend to and bind all all states.

We have a balance of power between the branches, not a judicial oligarchy. When the courts fuck up, which the obviously do, it's the DUTY of the legislative and executive branch to slap them down. Not roll over and say well shit, 9 folks got the black robes that makes them more special than the rest of us.

I'm not arguing about HOW it is.

I'm arguing how how it was ESTABLISHED and how it SHOULD be.

498 BatGuano  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:53:42pm

re: #482 Gus 802

Thanks for the post; I missed that. I believe ant-antisemitism will increase in the Democrat party and at a lesser rate in the Republican party. The Jews have been scapegoats for centuries and some elements in the country are looking for someone to blame, sadly. When in in doubt, blame the Jews.

499 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:54:01pm

re: #484 MrPaulRevere

Did you catch that dig he made at the beginning where he basically called her a carpetbagger? And then she says 'this is friendly OK?', like she is mystified as to why any black person would question her motives? After all, she is the great white protector /

No, I couldn't watch the video. I hate Barbara Boxer and seeing her at her worst would only succeed in giving me a dangerous spike in blood pressure.

500 Gus  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:54:43pm

re: #492 Dark_Falcon

Well, that proves that there are too many loons in both parties. Geeze, I never dreamed that Antisemitism was this bad these days.

Yeah. I was looking at that 18.4% number and that isn't anything to be proud of either. These types of prejudices are still around and I hear them from time to time.

501 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:56:43pm

re: #498 BatGuano

Thanks for the post; I missed that. I believe ant-antisemitism will increase in the Democrat party and at a lesser rate in the Republican party. The Jews have been scapegoats for centuries and some elements in the country are looking for someone to blame, sadly. When in in doubt, blame the Jews.


And that my friend is the fun of being chosen...

My favorite old Jewish joke was once preformed by my mother. She looked up at the ceiling and said "could you choose someone else?"

502 Irenicum  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:58:26pm

re: #431 RunningBare

I gotta say, you put it better than I've seen in a long time.

503 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:59:46pm

re: #497 jcm

Because court did that does that make it right?

The court decided Dred Scott to, it must have been right then also?

The same courts that somehow found that the right to privacy, extends to and binds all states, with Sotomayor and the 3rd circuit found the 2nd doesn't extend to and bind all all states.

We have a balance of power between the branches, not a judicial oligarchy. When the courts fuck up, which the obviously do, it's the DUTY of the legislative and executive branch to slap them down. Not roll over and say well shit, 9 folks got the black robes that makes them more special than the rest of us.

I'm not arguing about HOW it is.

I'm arguing how how it was ESTABLISHED and how it SHOULD be.


How it was established and how it should be are also subject to interpretation. I am not saying I dissagree with you. I am saying that given it is the way it is, conservative justices make all sorts of rulings that piss off the other half of the country too, and being a centrist myself, I rather like the idea of keeping the court a little balanced.

504 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:59:49pm

re: #432 philip

As long as Buchanan or any white supremacist view has support from even a tiny minority in the GOP, it will not be a party I will be part of.

Sadly, I think the GOP is no longer a party where Jews, blacks, gays and other minorities can feel welcome.

phillip ... you are of shallow mind ... are you grouping all together ... if you do that ... you need to do the same to the democrats because I assure you whether they say it loud or they whisper ... many in that party are prejudice also ... many hide ... you need to only pull back the covers to see ...

505 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 9:59:59pm

re: #501 LudwigVanQuixote

And that my friend is the fun of being chosen...

My favorite old Jewish joke was once preformed by my mother. She looked up at the ceiling and said "could you choose someone else?"

I know, I know. We are Your chosen people. But, once in a while, can't You choose someone else?

Youtube Video
506 realwest  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:00:34pm

re: #476 LudwigVanQuixote
Respectfully, all those Dixiecrats didn't become Republicans (e.g. Robert Byrd) and as I said anyone can put an "R" or "L" "D" after their name- see e.g., David Duke.
But how much support they get from the Republican Party is an entirely different matter.
What HAS happened is that the MSM, so mad it couldn't get either Gore or Kerry to beat George W. Bush (and in Kerry's case with a huge thank you to Charles, again!) so they started taking "marginalized" politicians who claimed to be of the party of Abraham Lincoln and puffed them up to be much more than they were in real life. And let's not forget that anyone who criticizes President Obama will almost certainly be labeled a Racist, while in point of fact something over 96% of Black Americans voted for Obama - THAT WAS RACISM, even if it's understandable (if I were Black I'd a voted for him too).

507 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:03:16pm

re: #503 LudwigVanQuixote

How it was established and how it should be are also subject to interpretation. I am not saying I dissagree with you. I am saying that given it is the way it is, conservative justices make all sorts of rulings that piss off the other half of the country too, and being a centrist myself, I rather like the idea of keeping the court a little balanced.

I want just a couple of things. Return to shared powers, and the courts to quit writing legislation. When something is found unconstitutional they find just that, not rewrite the law in their image, just kick it back to the other branches to sort it out.

508 Irenicum  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:03:28pm

re: #446 subsailor68

Wow. Reason. Keep speaking, PLEASE.

509 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:03:51pm

re: #449 RunningBare

Weird. As a minority, I've felt welcome since I first became interested in politics back in the 70s. Never had an issue. I have been, and always am, treated decently at conservative and republican events.

When I have the misfortune to be around large numbers of liberals, I always end up having to deal with, listen to, and act like I care about what they are saying as they try to alleviate their "white guilt" or whatever it is that makes them want to patronize me so they can feel better about themselves for "making a difference", or whatever. It's all a buncha horseshit if you ask me.

RB: With all due respect, I don't think Native American ancestry is the equivalent of being black, Hispanic, Asian, Jewish, etc. to white bigots.

I grew up in Alabama during the church-bombing years...racism as hideous and over-the-top as it gets...and the only time I saw a Native American spoken of unkindly was in the Saturday westerns on TV.

If anything, the opposite was the case. At family reunions, the old guys...at least one of whom was a former Klansman...would pass around a photograph of my Cherokee great-grandmother and vie for who had most inherited her distinctive profile.

I can't vouch for other regions of the country, but in the South, even people who hate blacks will often exaggerate the extent of their Native American ancestry out of pride. Why do you think this is?

510 RunningBare  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:04:00pm

The bottom line is simple - the racist left would prefer that a minority like me is kept at the bottom rung of the social ladder, constantly holding out hope that they will fullfill all their pie-in-the-sky promises, while they actually do little, if anything, except provide lip service to issues, and continually try to scare me with tales of how the Big Bad Right-Wing wants to kill me, in order to ensure that I continue to vote for them, thereby keeping them in power, and allowing them to implement their agenda.

We minorities are being used as pawns and "useful idiots". Of course, once they've solifified their power enough to where they dont' need us anymore, they will cheerfully and happily begin implementing Margaret Sanger's agenda - sterilization of all us "undesirables", our children farmed out to adoptive parents so they can be raised right (i.e. white)... I mean, Planned Parenthood's top award given each year is The Margaret Sanger Award. A nazi, eugenics-supporting bitch. THAT is the american Left.

I don't care if some ignorant racist fuck on the right doesn't like me because I may be more brown than they'd like. I can deal with that.

The racists on the Left, however, scare the shit out of me, frankly.

511 Wendya  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:04:41pm

re: #482 Gus 802

32% (Nearly 1/3rd) of Democrats Blame Jews for Economic Crisis

32% Democrats
18.4% Republicans

(Stanford Poll)

That's pretty representative of what you see on progressive and right wing sites. On the left, they try to cloak it in terms of anti-Zionism, anti-criminal-Israeli government, you get the point.

512 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:05:56pm

re: #509 ShanghaiEd

RB: With all due respect, I don't think Native American ancestry is the equivalent of being black, Hispanic, Asian, Jewish, etc. to white bigots.

I grew up in Alabama during the church-bombing years...racism as hideous and over-the-top as it gets...and the only time I saw a Native American spoken of unkindly was in the Saturday westerns on TV.

If anything, the opposite was the case. At family reunions, the old guys...at least one of whom was a former Klansman...would pass around a photograph of my Cherokee great-grandmother and vie for who had most inherited her distinctive profile.

I can't vouch for other regions of the country, but in the South, even people who hate blacks will often exaggerate the extent of their Native American ancestry out of pride. Why do you think this is?

SE .. you are an asshole to say that ... it is just a difference of time periods ...

I don't think Native American ancestry is the equivalent of being black, Hispanic, Asian, Jewish, etc. to white bigots.

this is what you believe? ... swirl fucking swirl ... again ..

513 realwest  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:06:03pm

re: #480 ShanghaiEd
Good evening SE! How's about we say that racism is a problem in American society, period. Instead of going after political parties, we should be going after the race-baiter's like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and of course, the right Reverend Jeremiah Wright, who all seek to perpetuate racism so THEY can make money. Wouldn't want to see Rev Sharpton actually have to work for a living, now would we?!
Black and White Americans, IMO, have far, far more in common than they do that separates them.

514 BatGuano  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:06:07pm

Geraldo just showed "Buzz" Aldrin punching a "reporter" questioning the moon landing.

515 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:06:08pm

re: #510 RunningBare

The bottom line is simple - the racist left would prefer that a minority like me is kept at the bottom rung of the social ladder, constantly holding out hope that they will fullfill all their pie-in-the-sky promises, while they actually do little, if anything, except provide lip service to issues, and continually try to scare me with tales of how the Big Bad Right-Wing wants to kill me, in order to ensure that I continue to vote for them, thereby keeping them in power, and allowing them to implement their agenda.

We minorities are being used as pawns and "useful idiots". Of course, once they've solidified their power enough to where they don't need us anymore, they will cheerfully and happily begin implementing Margaret Sanger's agenda - sterilization of all us "undesirables", our children farmed out to adoptive parents so they can be raised right (i.e. white)... I mean, Planned Parenthood's top award given each year is The Margaret Sanger Award. A nazi, eugenics-supporting bitch. THAT is the american Left.

I don't care if some ignorant racist fuck on the right doesn't like me because I may be more brown than they'd like. I can deal with that.

The racists on the Left, however, scare the shit out of me, frankly.

Agreed. The is far too into paternalism for my peace of mind.

516 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:07:46pm

re: #494 Dark_Falcon

Deal.

Hot dang! Break out the beer. Or Pepsi. :)

517 realwest  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:08:17pm

re: #482 Gus 802
That's just incredibly sad. It seems as if every time I think we've made a lot of headway against Anti-Semitism, I find out that we haven't.

518 Gus  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:08:51pm

re: #511 Wendya

That's pretty representative of what you see on progressive and right wing sites. On the left, they try to cloak it in terms of anti-Zionism, anti-criminal-Israeli government, you get the point.

Right, they apply it to fit whatever political agenda they may have. In NYC the urban renter Democratic demographic is always harping on "the land lords" or the "building owners." The far-right applies it with the Communist angles as well as the economic prejudices. They also converge.

519 BatGuano  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:09:34pm

re: #501 LudwigVanQuixote

And that my friend is the fun of being chosen...

My favorite old Jewish joke was once preformed by my mother. She looked up at the ceiling and said "could you choose someone else?"

The Prophets warned the Jews of the consequences of being chosen and their responsibility. He chose the right people for the task.

520 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:10:11pm

re: #509 ShanghaiEd


RB: With all due respect, I don't think Native American ancestry is the equivalent of being black, Hispanic, Asian, Jewish, etc. to white bigots.


That may be your experience....however in the early years of this country...Indians were considered worse than Blacks....because they couldn't be enslaved.

521 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:10:42pm

re: #515 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. The left is far too into paternalism for my peace of mind.

PIMF

522 subsailor68  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:10:42pm

Hey! All you anti-Semitic Pat Buchanan trolls lurking here to see what we're saying - here's a list for you:

Famous Jews

Pretty impressive, isn't it?

How about this list:

Famous Pat Buchanan supporters.

Oops, sorry. Tried to link to that, but didn't get any hits. Keep on trying kids.

523 haakondahl  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:11:05pm

re: #432 philip

As long as Buchanan or any white supremacist view has support from even a tiny minority in the GOP, it will not be a party I will be part of.

Sadly, I think the GOP is no longer a party where Jews, blacks, gays and other minorities can feel welcome.

I'm going to asume that this is an honest statement of a heartfelt frustration rather than a trollish mis-application of a valid principle at the wrong target.
There are shitheads everywhere you turn, and if you assume that the worst in any group is representative of that group, and therefore remove yourself from the only process that can improve things, then I assure that no matter how bleak things may seem, they will only get worse.
So Buck Up, li'l Camper! Don't wish for things--work for them.

524 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:11:28pm

re: #446 subsailor68

Hey, sub! A quick OT onto Blood Meridian, if you've got a minute...

Just as I was dozing off last night, it occurred to me there's only one actor I know of who might pull off the Judge Holden role...though he needs a few more years and a bunch more pounds to do it right. Are you ready? Three words:

Philip Seymour Hoffman.

What do you think?

525 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:11:40pm

re: #519 BatGuano

The Prophets warned the Jews of the consequences of being chosen and their responsibility. He chose the right people for the task.

Quite concur.

526 realwest  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:11:50pm

re: #495 Syrah
"The party does not have the means to legally expel someone from the party."
There, FTFY!

527 RunningBare  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:11:50pm

re: #509 ShanghaiEd

RB: With all due respect, I don't think Native American ancestry is the equivalent of being black, Hispanic, Asian, Jewish, etc. to white bigots.

I grew up in Alabama during the church-bombing years...racism as hideous and over-the-top as it gets...and the only time I saw a Native American spoken of unkindly was in the Saturday westerns on TV.

If anything, the opposite was the case. At family reunions, the old guys...at least one of whom was a former Klansman...would pass around a photograph of my Cherokee great-grandmother and vie for who had most inherited her distinctive profile.

I can't vouch for other regions of the country, but in the South, even people who hate blacks will often exaggerate the extent of their Native American ancestry out of pride. Why do you think this is?

Why? Because we're the awesomest awesomes who ever awesomed, I would imagine.

I wish many experiences in my life had been as flowery and sunshiney and puppies hugging kittens cute as you describe, though. Woulda been nice.

528 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:13:35pm

re: #526 realwest

"The party does not have the means to legally expel someone from the party."
There, FTFY!

That leaves us with one option.....

Drop kick 'em out the door of the moving train.

529 swamprat  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:14:08pm

re: #443 realwest

Da nada.

530 subsailor68  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:14:30pm

re: #524 ShanghaiEd

Hey, sub! A quick OT onto Blood Meridian, if you've got a minute...

Just as I was dozing off last night, it occurred to me there's only one actor I know of who might pull off the Judge Holden role...though he needs a few more years and a bunch more pounds to do it right. Are you ready? Three words:

Philip Seymour Hoffman.

What do you think?

Holy crap!! You know what? You should be casting films. That's incredibly good!! First, nope - he's got the pounds. Second - height isn't an issue - the camera can handle that. Third - he's got that quiet menace, coupled with the "reasonable" approach that could lure ya in to believe even the most incredible insanity.

Perfect call!! Total thumbs up.

531 Gus  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:14:46pm

re: #528 jcm

That leaves us with one option.....

Drop kick 'em out the door of the moving train.

Skytrain?

//

532 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:15:13pm

re: #528 jcm

That leaves us with one option.....

Drop kick 'em out the door of the moving train.

I'd prefer to take Pat fishing, thus completing his status as the Fredo of the GOP.

/kidding

533 haakondahl  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:15:28pm

re: #517 realwest

That's just incredibly sad. It seems as if every time I think we've made a lot of headway against Anti-Semitism, I find out that we haven't.


This is one of the more negative implications of the constrained vision--that we are probably stuck with our problems. Still grappling with this one.
"Any obsolete threat which is no longer defended against is no longer obsolete."

534 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:16:54pm

re: #510 RunningBare

The bottom line is simple - the racist left would prefer that a minority like me is kept at the bottom rung of the social ladder, constantly holding out hope that they will fullfill all their pie-in-the-sky promises, while they actually do little, if anything, except provide lip service to issues, and continually try to scare me with tales of how the Big Bad Right-Wing wants to kill me, in order to ensure that I continue to vote for them, thereby keeping them in power, and allowing them to implement their agenda.

We minorities are being used as pawns and "useful idiots". Of course, once they've solifified their power enough to where they dont' need us anymore, they will cheerfully and happily begin implementing Margaret Sanger's agenda - sterilization of all us "undesirables", our children farmed out to adoptive parents so they can be raised right (i.e. white)... I mean, Planned Parenthood's top award given each year is The Margaret Sanger Award. A nazi, eugenics-supporting bitch. THAT is the american Left.

I don't care if some ignorant racist fuck on the right doesn't like me because I may be more brown than they'd like. I can deal with that.

The racists on the Left, however, scare the shit out of me, frankly.

I hate left wing racists and I hate right wing racists. Your points about left wing racism are spot on.

The ones on the right will just make certain that glass ceilings stay in place, or in the case of guys like Buchannan, another nazi supporting POS, see to it that undesirables are executed at a faster rate and arested more often. In my home town, which is overwhelmingly GOP, the heart of the local GOP hangs out at one of two country clubs, neither of which accepts "my kind" to this day.

They both are evil. They both have no concept of actually being colorblind and judging people for who they are.

The only real difference is who the various groups point their hatred at. The lefties like Black people a little more than the right wing bigots - but trust me guys like Pat or Rush, with his Barak the magic negro, are not exactly all that racially unbiased either. The lefties generally, but not always hate Jews more, and lefty Blacks are frequently at odds with Lefty Latinos over who deserves more benefits because their ancestors suffered more.

535 jacksontn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:16:59pm

re: #527 RunningBare

Why? Because we're the awesomest awesomes who ever awesomed, I would imagine.

I wish many experiences in my life had been as flowery and sunshiney and puppies hugging kittens cute as you describe, though. Woulda been nice.

RB .. he says always that is not leftist ... he says he does not support Obama ... and his group ... I say I see him for what he is ... they pick and choose what minorities they think will serve their purpose at the time ... I don't care what it sounds like to many ... they have just as many in their ranks as the right ... and every other group ... they just whisper it ...

536 subsailor68  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:17:42pm

re: #524 ShanghaiEd

Hey, sub! A quick OT onto Blood Meridian, if you've got a minute...

Just as I was dozing off last night, it occurred to me there's only one actor I know of who might pull off the Judge Holden role...though he needs a few more years and a bunch more pounds to do it right. Are you ready? Three words:

Philip Seymour Hoffman.

What do you think?

BTW - back at ya -- since you nailed Holden perfectly, go for it: who plays the Kid?

(If I give you Hoffman - and I sure do! - any possibility that Edward Norton can handle the Kid?)

537 swamprat  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:19:12pm

'Night, lizardia.

At least the trolls are now posting topics implying that all republicans are racists, instead of the old meme that all LGFers were racists. We're making a little (pardon the word) progress!

538 realwest  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:20:16pm

re: #496 LudwigVanQuixote
"The fact is that when you are a Jew, you need to be as pristine as possible if only because you are always, like it or not, fair or not, representing all of us."
Yup.
My Dad, (RIP) was a fighter jock in WWII and his wingman was a Jew. EVERY SINGLE DAY his wingman would work harder, study harder and -to the extent quantifiable - try to out do everyone and was an excellent pilot. And yet when the Squadron Commander asked for the pilots to get together to try to pick wingman or pilot, my Dad was the only one to even ask this fine man to be his wingman and considered himself damn lucky to get him as his wingman.
When Dad asked him why other pilots hadn't tripped all over themselves to get him to be their wingman, his reply was simple "Because I'm a Jew." My Dad was astounded - a good wingman could keep a pilot alive and people were not picking the guy my Dad thought was the best of all of them, because he was a Jew.
And my Dad had to have him explain that fact.

539 haakondahl  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:21:08pm

re: #509 ShanghaiEd

Wow. I couldn't disagree more. I'm sure you'll hear all about it from lotsa folks.

540 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:21:10pm

This is an anecdotal story but it's a true one; I used to supervise two older black gents who were retirees from the post office and worked for me when I supervised a loading dock. They genuinely despised the welfare state and its side effects. They were convinced it was a plot to destroy the black family. At the end of the day, they were the only two I could count on to show up on time every day. They equated work with survival, like I do. Shared values united us.

541 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:21:11pm

This is exactly why MSNBC keeps Pat Bucanan around....so he can say soemthing and the other MSNBC hacks (Olberdouche, Cristy etc) can conveniently annoint themselves experts on all things conservative and tell their audience (however miniscule) 'See? This is exactly how all conservatives think!'

Like what FOX did with Alan Colmes.....who's still a doofus. Pat- like many aged paleocons- cross that line from 'annoying doofus' to 'creepy bigot'.

542 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:21:38pm

re: #520 BignJames

RB: With all due respect, I don't think Native American ancestry is the equivalent of being black, Hispanic, Asian, Jewish, etc. to white bigots.

That may be your experience....however in the early years of this country...Indians were considered worse than Blacks....because they couldn't be enslaved.

Oh, absolutely. I specified "I can't speak for other regions" and the only thing I've been eyewitness to was my own lifetime. Just making an observation, not a declaration.

In other words, your bigots and my bigots may vary. :)

543 Steffan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:21:42pm

re: #492 Dark_Falcon

Well, that proves that there are too many loons in both parties. Geeze, I never dreamed that Antisemitism was this bad these days.

For the most part, they disguise it as "antiZionism."

Same brownshirt-time, same brownshirt-channel.

OK, so the flags are raised. What was that about the comrades killed by the Red Front and the Reaction?

544 RunningBare  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:21:48pm

re: #520 BignJames

RB: With all due respect, I don't think Native American ancestry is the equivalent of being black, Hispanic, Asian, Jewish, etc. to white bigots.


That may be your experience....however in the early years of this country...Indians were considered worse than Blacks....because they couldn't be enslaved.

I wonder if ShanghiaEd ever had anyone in his family sterilized during a childbirth deliberately as a matter of public policy, because they were considered "undesirable" and not "of old pioneer stock"?

I have. Maybe his tune views would be different.

545 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:23:27pm

re: #541 Fenway_Nation

This is exactly why MSNBC keeps Pat Bucanan around....so he can say soemthing and the other MSNBC hacks (Olberdouche, Cristy etc) can conveniently annoint themselves experts on all things conservative and tell their audience (however miniscule) 'See? This is exactly how all conservatives think!'

Like what FOX did with Alan Colmes.....who's still a doofus. Pat- like many aged paleocons- cross that line from 'annoying doofus' to 'creepy bigot'.

The cardinal difference is that Alan Colmes, though a fool, is not a bigot. That said, your analysis is spot-on.

546 capitalist piglet  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:23:35pm

re: #480 ShanghaiEd

cp, the Boxer video speaks for itself. She's a fanatic, and unstable besides.

Terms like "fairly common" and "aberration" are abstractions, and I prefer to stick with specifics. What if we compromise for the evening and say racism is equally a problem on the Right and Left? Is that fair?

I don't know if it's fair or not.

But I have to call you out on something. Suddenly, when I (and others) point out very recent examples of racism on the left, you want to stick with specifics - but upthread, you said this to me:

If you count the newsworthy macaca-type incidents of the past few years though, you have to admit that party affiliation leans heavily to the right. A snapshot in time, maybe, but still.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though as long as we're talking about racism on the right, you're quite content to make sweeping generalizations.

547 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:24:45pm

re: #544 RunningBare

I wonder if ShanghiaEd ever had anyone in his family sterilized during a childbirth deliberately as a matter of public policy, because they were considered "undesirable" and not "of old pioneer stock"?

I have. Maybe his tune views would be different.

Would you care to tell us that story. I would hear more, if you are willing.

548 capitalist piglet  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:26:45pm

re: #527 RunningBare

Why? Because we're the awesomest awesomes who ever awesomed, I would imagine.

I wish many experiences in my life had been as flowery and sunshiney and puppies hugging kittens cute as you describe, though. Woulda been nice.

I know how much you love the hippies who try to co-opt your culture, because, you know, Indians are just so peaceful and stuff.

549 Gus  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:26:55pm

OT but Happy Moon Landing Day in the midwest and east coast!

40 years ago today.

550 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:27:00pm

"Well, Calvin, how was LGF today?"

"Good."

"What did they talk about?"

"Racism."

"But what did they say?"

"They're agin it."

(Coolidge actually said that the conversation I am copying never happened, but he thought it was a great story.)

551 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:28:08pm

re: #512 JacksonTn

SE .. you are an asshole to say that ... it is just a difference of time periods ...

I don't think Native American ancestry is the equivalent of being black, Hispanic, Asian, Jewish, etc. to white bigots.

this is what you believe? ... swirl fucking swirl ... again ..

Hi, jackson: Flattery will get you everywhere. :)

This has nothing to do with what I "believe"...just reporting what I observed during a very limited time frame in a very limited place. It just puzzled me, growing up, that some bigots pick and choose their "people of color." Doesn't keep them from being bigots or make them nice people, of course.

What do you mean by "a difference in time periods"? I'm talking about the 1960s in Birmingham, Alabama.

552 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:28:20pm

re: #538 realwest

I was raised "lucky" my family history goes way back, and I mean way back in the abolition movement. As long as I can remember, guests at my families dinner table have been every shade, every faith imaginable.

I say lucky because I was raised without the concept of looking at any of those things that don't matter. It's leaves me scratching my head at how anyone could decided on who they associate with based on such trivialities. I really don't get racism, but I hate it all the same.

553 RunningBare  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:30:37pm

re: #535 jacksontn

RB .. he says always that is not leftist ... he says he does not support Obama ... and his group ... I say I see him for what he is ... they pick and choose what minorities they think will serve their purpose at the time ... I don't care what it sounds like to many ... they have just as many in their ranks as the right ... and every other group ... they just whisper it ...

What I always run into, are people who have the opinion "You know, things are much better for indians. All that stuff was in the past, hundreds of years ago. Move on and get over it already..." and when you call them on it, because they have NO CLUE what it is like in indian country, they then pull out the old, "Well, I know what it's like, my great-great-great-great-grandmother's second cousin's hair dressers' ex-husband was a cherokee princess!" card, thinking it actually lends weight to their arguments.

554 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:30:56pm

re: #538 realwest

"The fact is that when you are a Jew, you need to be as pristine as possible if only because you are always, like it or not, fair or not, representing all of us."
Yup.
My Dad, (RIP) was a fighter jock in WWII and his wingman was a Jew. EVERY SINGLE DAY his wingman would work harder, study harder and -to the extent quantifiable - try to out do everyone and was an excellent pilot. And yet when the Squadron Commander asked for the pilots to get together to try to pick wingman or pilot, my Dad was the only one to even ask this fine man to be his wingman and considered himself damn lucky to get him as his wingman.
When Dad asked him why other pilots hadn't tripped all over themselves to get him to be their wingman, his reply was simple "Because I'm a Jew." My Dad was astounded - a good wingman could keep a pilot alive and people were not picking the guy my Dad thought was the best of all of them, because he was a Jew.
And my Dad had to have him explain that fact.

The list of Jewish soldiers who got a bronze star or just a purple heart rather than a silver star or higher "because they were Jews" from that conflict is very long.

Jews came a very long way in this nation since the war. We are starting to see it slip back. We are seeing it from the right and the left at the same time. That is part of why it is so scary. There were lots of us, good, loyal, tax paying Americans who never thought it could look as bleak in America or Europe as it does today.

Now I am not saying that we are quite back to the days of Father Coughlin, but Buchannan and Wright sure come close. Farrakahn has been there for years. The reporting on Israel gets a little more slanted each day, and yes, whenever a Jew F's up, it is all over the news instantly and they are sure to point out he was a Jew. It's not as if a white Christian criminal is more or less of a criminal than a Jewish one, it is that no one would care that he was a white Christian. No one would even think that white Christains are in general bad because of him.

Did you know that Charles Manson is not Jewish? G-d help us if he were.

555 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:31:46pm

re: #542 ShanghaiEd


My wife's family is of Cherokee descendance on her father's side...it's very discernable in their features...yet even in his lifetime...especially as a young man...they tried to hide it....because of the discrimination they faced.

556 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:31:49pm

re: #551 ShanghaiEd

Hi, jackson: Flattery will get you everywhere. :)

This has nothing to do with what I "believe"...just reporting what I observed during a very limited time frame in a very limited place. It just puzzled me, growing up, that some bigots pick and choose their "people of color." Doesn't keep them from being bigots or make them nice people, of course.

What do you mean by "a difference in time periods"? I'm talking about the 1960s in Birmingham, Alabama.

SE ... don't give a flying f*ck what you think ... American Indians do not have the numbers or the Democrats would try to take them captive and use them to their advantage ... fuckin fact ...

Youtube Video
557 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:32:02pm

re: #554 LudwigVanQuixote

I understand that OJ Simpson isn't Jewish, either.

558 NY Nana  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:32:46pm

re: #522 subsailor68

Thank you for that post. I hate, loathe and detest Buchanan. He is a POS.

The real Buchanan....

According to him, Great Britain was the cause of WWII, and Lord Churchill
set it up...the Nazis were goaded and had no choice. And Hitler was no threat to the USA...

Youtube Video

Right now I am too angry to post, so I will say g'nite, Lizards...alas, there will be no sweet dreams after watching him in action.

559 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:33:25pm

Is that really the time? Good night.

560 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:34:38pm

re: #558 NY Nana

G'nite Nana....don't sleep angry.

561 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:34:39pm

re: #558 NY Nana

Thank you for that post. I hate, loathe and detest Buchanan. He is a POS.

The real Buchanan....

According to him, Great Britain was the cause of WWII, and Lord Churchill
set it up...the Nazis were goaded and had no choice. And Hitler was no threat to the USA...


[Video]Right now I am too angry to post, so I will say g'nite, Lizards...alas, there will be no sweet dreams after watching him in action.

re: #559 emmmieg

Is that really the time? Good night.

Goodnight, guys. Sleep well.

562 realwest  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:34:45pm

re: #507 jcm

I want just a couple of things. Return to shared powers, and the courts to quit writing legislation. When something is found unconstitutional they find just that, not rewrite the law in their image, just kick it back to the other branches to sort it out.


Sadly my friend those days - if they ever really existed - are gone forever.
Judges - even and perhaps especially Justices of the SCOTUS are only supposed to interpret language (in the case of SCOTUS with the language contained in the Constitution as amended) when there is some ambiguity in said language. That went out the window I don't know how many years ago.
For example, The Warren Court rendered several opinions on the First Amendment's guarantee of Freedom of Speech. Mr. Justice Hugo Black said words to the effect "I dissent from the majority's opinion in this matter. The Constitution says "Congress shall make no law abridging.....freedom of speech" and I don't see any ambiguity in the "No Law" part of that Amendment and we ought not to have ever taken this case."
In subsequent cases dealing with Freedom of Speech, Justice Black would dissent saying "see my dissent in such and such case. There is NO AMBIGUITY in the constitution's written language that Congress shall make NO law........"
And judges of all levels, federal, state and municipal when faced with a case where the application of the law would result in what the judge him or her self would find abhorrent or even unpleasant, would find some ambiguity to reach a different outcome than the law clearly required.

563 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:36:11pm

re: #557 emmmieg

What about jeffery Dahmer?
/

564 BatGuano  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:36:34pm

re: #538 realwest

Realwest, A great story and a sad story.

565 Flyers1974  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:36:39pm

re: #474 realwest

When considering the history of racism, isn't political philosophy more relevant than political Party? Wouldn't it be correct to say that most of the conservatives on LGF are more loyal to conservatism rather than the Republican party? True, racism was the worst in the south, and the Democrats were unquestionably the dominant party there. However, those Democrats were not liberal. It is difficult to name anything those Democrats had in common with northern Democrats or Democrats today. Just one example of many, with regard to the Civil Rights Act of 1964, southern Democrats voted against the act by 20-1. Non-southern Democrats voted for the act 45-1. The Democratic leadership made a decision to support civil rights. As a result, the south left the Democrats (as LBJ predicted.) Indeed, the Republicans made a strategic decision to directly support the South's opposition to end segregation (ostensibly based on support for "states rights.") This continued from Nixon's "Southern Strategy" to Reagan's very strange choice of Philadelphia, Mississippi as the place to kick off his election campaign. The bottom line is, Democrats and Republicans were both responsible for racist policies. It is impossible I think however, to blame liberals, as neither the Republicans nor southern Democrats, were liberal.

[Link: archive.newsmax.com...]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

566 subsailor68  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:38:48pm

Just an old, quick lesson from my dad, which I'll update, since young lizards wouldn't have a clue about his original example:

I was about ten or so, and at dinner repeated a comment I'd heard at school - being young and stupid at the time.

My dad said, "So, you think white folks are better than those of color?"
I said, "I guess so."
My dad said, "Okay, so who would you rather take to the dance, Halle Berry or Rosie O'Donnell?""

Today, that may sound sexist, but in one short question, my dad cleared up any doubts I had about that particular issue

567 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:38:56pm

re: #565 Flyers1974


Quit trying to blow hot air up our kilts with your convoluted 'No True Scotsman' defense.

568 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:39:04pm

re: #563 Fenway_Nation

What about jeffery Dahmer?
/

Also not Jewish... Thank G-d.

The worst Jewish serial killer of all times is whoever convinced us that gefilte fish was a good thing...

569 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:39:09pm

re: #562 realwest

Sadly my friend those days - if they ever really existed - are gone forever.
Judges - even and perhaps especially Justices of the SCOTUS are only supposed to interpret language (in the case of SCOTUS with the language contained in the Constitution as amended) when there is some ambiguity in said language. That went out the window I don't know how many years ago.
For example, The Warren Court rendered several opinions on the First Amendment's guarantee of Freedom of Speech. Mr. Justice Hugo Black said words to the effect "I dissent from the majority's opinion in this matter. The Constitution says "Congress shall make no law abridging.....freedom of speech" and I don't see any ambiguity in the "No Law" part of that Amendment and we ought not to have ever taken this case."
In subsequent cases dealing with Freedom of Speech, Justice Black would dissent saying "see my dissent in such and such case. There is NO AMBIGUITY in the constitution's written language that Congress shall make NO law........"
And judges of all levels, federal, state and municipal when faced with a case where the application of the law would result in what the judge him or her self would find abhorrent or even unpleasant, would find some ambiguity to reach a different outcome than the law clearly required.

Sad, but true. Too many judges see themselves as not just empowered, but enjoined to push for the best result possible from their point of view. There is no way to eliminate that line thinking within one lifetime. Getting rid of it might be doable, but no one posting here tonight would live to see the victory.

570 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:40:04pm

re: #556 JacksonTn

SE ... don't give a flying f*ck what you think ... American Indians do not have the numbers or the Democrats would try to take them captive and use them to their advantage ... fuckin fact ...

Youtube Video


Could be hard to do...as a group (I know...I know)..American Indians are very patriotic....probably moreso than whites. Could be that "warrior ethos".

571 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:40:09pm

re: #527 RunningBare

Why? Because we're the awesomest awesomes who ever awesomed, I would imagine.

I wish many experiences in my life had been as flowery and sunshiney and puppies hugging kittens cute as you describe, though. Woulda been nice.

Whoa, RB. I seem to have made my point very poorly, and certainly didn't say anything about your life.

In Birmingham, Alabama...in the 1960s...the particular bigots I knew...didn't discriminate against Native Americans the way they did against virtually everybody else who wasn't as white as they are. I found it strange. That's all. And was wondering if you had ever encountered that phenomenon. Obviously, you haven't.

I'm certainly not clueless enough to say that Native Americans haven't seen horrible discrimination. My folks made it a point to take us to the Trail of Tears museum in the Smokies every summer, and as a kid I wondered how a country founded on the equivalent on a genocide had survived as long as it had.

Does this make what I said any clearer? Again, no offense intended. I'd like to take my foot out of my mouth and move on.

572 BatGuano  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:40:27pm

re: #566 subsailor68

I'm old! I want the original example. :)

573 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:41:00pm

re: #562 realwest

No argument from me.

I'm just a crank old coot on the subject, and won't give up. One of the things the founders almost uniformly feared when they established, was a tyranny of the judiciary. They knew of all the branches, the most prone to abuse would be the judiciary.

Prescient men, the founders.

574 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:41:08pm

re: #572 BatGuano


Ma Barker or Josephine Baker?

/just guessing

575 realwest  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:41:31pm

re: #529 swamprat

Da nada.


Oh no, please. It was an attempt on your part to try to get some information regarding the treatment of cancer to me and that is most assuredly NOT da nada (or de nada, either!). I do appreciate it very, very much and thank you again and hope that you will continue to let me know if you've seen an article which might be of help to me OR TO ANY OTHER folks out there who are suffering from cancer.

576 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:41:38pm

re: #567 Fenway_Nation

Quit trying to blow hot air up our kilts with your convoluted 'No True Scotsman' defense.

Dang and forget my...........

577 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:41:40pm

re: #570 BignJames

Could be hard to do...as a group (I know...I know)..American Indians are very patriotic....probably moreso than whites. Could be that "warrior ethos".

BnJ ... well, IMO ... if Obama thought it would be to his advantage .. he would have claimed some American Indian blood ... don't care if that sounds like ODS or not ... it is how I feel ...

578 wiffersnapper  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:41:43pm

Huckabee, Buchanan, Paul. The GOP Axis of Evil.

579 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:41:52pm

re: #572 BatGuano

I'm old! I want the original example. :)

I'm not old, but I do too.

580 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:42:23pm

re: #555 BignJames

My wife's family is of Cherokee descendance on her father's side...it's very discernable in their features...yet even in his lifetime...especially as a young man...they tried to hide it....because of the discrimination they faced.

That's sad. What part of the country did they live in?

581 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:42:44pm

re: #578 wiffersnapper

Huckabee, Buchanan, Paul. The GOP Axis of Evil.

Axies of Weasels!

No reflection on Ice.....

582 RunningBare  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:42:49pm

re: #547 Dark_Falcon

Would you care to tell us that story. I would hear more, if you are willing.

In the state of Vermont, one of the most progressive states in the union I might add, it was a matter of state law. As I value my privacy, I won't get into specifics, but here is a good link about it:

[Link: www.uvm.edu...]


re: #548 capitalist piglet

I know how much you love the hippies who try to co-opt your culture, because, you know, Indians are just so peaceful and stuff.

Yeah, I love it. I love it even more when these hippie jerkoffs try to tell ME "how it used to be". My people were warriors, and DAMNED PROUD OF IT. We didn't have any of the "Two Spirit" crap, we didn't have any of the feel good peace and love bullshit, we kicked ass and took names. And we were good at it. Still are, as I'm sure the various canadian law enforcement agencies have discovered in recent decades ;)

583 BatGuano  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:43:00pm

re: #574 Fenway_Nation

I've seen photos of both. I'm with Josephine.

584 Flyers1974  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:43:27pm

re: #567 Fenway_Nation

Quit trying to blow hot air up our kilts with your convoluted 'No True Scotsman' defense.

Did you note the difference between Northern and Southern Democrat Senatorial voting with respect to the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Any comment on 45-1 vs. 1-20?

585 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:44:17pm

re: #578 wiffersnapper

Huckabee, Buchanan, Paul. The GOP Axis of Evil.

I wouldn't lump Huckabee in with those other two. Yes, he's a creationist who doesn't really believe in the constitution. That said, he isn't a racist and doesn't display the dangerous monomaniacal traits of Paul and Buchanan.

586 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:44:25pm

re: #580 ShanghaiEd

That's sad. What part of the country did they live in?


Click my avatar.

587 wiffersnapper  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:44:52pm

re: #585 Dark_Falcon

I suppose

588 subsailor68  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:44:53pm

re: #572 BatGuano

I'm old! I want the original example. :)

Okay, LOL!!! Let's see just how old we are. He used:

Lena Horne and Kate Smith.

;-)

589 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:44:55pm

re: #571 ShanghaiEd

Whoa, RB. I seem to have made my point very poorly, and certainly didn't say anything about your life.

In Birmingham, Alabama...in the 1960s...the particular bigots I knew...didn't discriminate against Native Americans the way they did against virtually everybody else who wasn't as white as they are. I found it strange. That's all. And was wondering if you had ever encountered that phenomenon. Obviously, you haven't.

I'm certainly not clueless enough to say that Native Americans haven't seen horrible discrimination. My folks made it a point to take us to the Trail of Tears museum in the Smokies every summer, and as a kid I wondered how a country founded on the equivalent on a genocide had survived as long as it had.

Does this make what I said any clearer? Again, no offense intended. I'd like to take my foot out of my mouth and move on.

SE ... right that is because they were in the South and never were around American Indians they were around blacks and to them American Indians were some sort of folklore or something ... try talking to somebody from a different region in the same time period and it would be different ... swirl ...

590 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:45:06pm

re: #584 Flyers1974

And the republican voting record for that? I'm sure if it was as horrific as the Dixiecrats record, that would've been brought up non-stop by the MSM for the next 40 years.

591 TheMatrix31  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:45:14pm

LMFAO

592 jcm  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:46:36pm

re: #591 TheMatrix31

LMFAO

Outstanding!

593 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:47:30pm

re: #553 RunningBare


Ever wonder why most of them, it seems, claim Cherokee?

594 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:47:44pm

re: #591 TheMatrix31


I regret that I have but one ding to give....

595 BatGuano  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:48:06pm

re: #581 jcm

Axies of Weasels!

No reflection on Ice.....

Lol. She's left but she's alright.

596 Syrah  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:48:11pm

re: #555 BignJames

My wife's family is of Cherokee descendance on her father's side...it's very discernable in their features...yet even in his lifetime...especially as a young man...they tried to hide it....because of the discrimination they faced.

I heard those types of stories from my mother's family. They could pass easily and looked at that as a way to escape both reservation life and the racism on the outside.

597 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:48:46pm

re: #565 Flyers1974

Reagan was a racist because he had a campaign rally in Mississippi... Talk about a strawman

598 Flyers1974  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:48:54pm

re: #542 ShanghaiEd

I think your words are being intentionally twisted beyond reason. It was pretty clear to me that you were discussing your own observations.

599 BatGuano  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:50:18pm

re: #588 subsailor68

Okay, LOL!!! Let's see just how old we are. He used:

Lena Horne and Kate Smith.

;-)


Late fifties, early sixties. Got it!

600 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:50:41pm

re: #582 RunningBare

Yeah, I love it. I love it even more when these hippie jerkoffs try to tell ME "how it used to be". My people were warriors, and DAMNED PROUD OF IT. We didn't have any of the "Two Spirit" crap, we didn't have any of the feel good peace and love bullshit, we kicked ass and took names. And we were good at it. Still are, as I'm sure the various canadian law enforcement agencies have discovered in recent decades ;)

Thank you for the link. It's scary stuff, you are right about that.

601 RunningBare  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:50:41pm

re: #571 ShanghaiEd

Whoa, RB. I seem to have made my point very poorly, and certainly didn't say anything about your life.

In Birmingham, Alabama...in the 1960s...the particular bigots I knew...didn't discriminate against Native Americans the way they did against virtually everybody else who wasn't as white as they are. I found it strange. That's all. And was wondering if you had ever encountered that phenomenon. Obviously, you haven't.

I'm certainly not clueless enough to say that Native Americans haven't seen horrible discrimination. My folks made it a point to take us to the Trail of Tears museum in the Smokies every summer, and as a kid I wondered how a country founded on the equivalent on a genocide had survived as long as it had.

Does this make what I said any clearer? Again, no offense intended. I'd like to take my foot out of my mouth and move on.


Fair enough. It just seemed like a broad generalization. I hate those.

602 Flyers1974  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:50:50pm

re: #597 MrPaulRevere

Reagan was a racist because he had a campaign rally in Mississippi... Talk about a strawman

I doubt very much Reagan was a racist. I think he was catering to racists in the south. Do you have an explanation why he would choose Philadelphia, Mississippi as the place to kick off his campaign?

603 NY Nana  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:51:23pm

re: #561 Dark_Falcon

You are right, but I have faced so damned much Jew hate in my 71 years....and cannot get visions of the Holocaust out of my mind...and the relatives we lost, who were not lucky enough to live here, in the USA...I now see Jew hate rising up like a sickness, so many years after. It seems that it just will not go away.

I do not think there is another blog on the internet that is like LGF, in regard to the support Charles gives to Israel and the Jewish posters.

Thanks for the words of encouragement re not going to sleep so angry...it would not be of any help.

But the hurt? It has been with me since I was a child. Just like 9/11, people want to forget the Holocaust, as it is so painful, but that is a mistake, IMHO. I notice so many people tie the Holocaust into any other thing they can think of, thus cheapening and belittling it. It is unique, and I pray that the world will never know another Holocaust. Never.

604 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:51:35pm

re: #596 Syrah

I heard those types of stories from my mother's family. They could pass easily and looked at that as a way to escape both reservation life and the racism on the outside.


It's a shame, really. But it was a way to survive.

605 BatGuano  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:52:13pm

re: #599 BatGuano

Late fifties, early sixties. Got it!

Now that I think about it could be as early as the mid-forties.

606 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:52:37pm

re: #588 subsailor68

Okay, LOL!!! Let's see just how old we are. He used:

Lena Horne and Kate Smith.

;-)

OK, you were right: Those names went right past me. Sorry. :(

607 Wendya  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:53:00pm

re: #593 BignJames

Ever wonder why most of them, it seems, claim Cherokee?

It's easier to spell than Pojoaque?

608 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:54:03pm

re: #607 Wendya

It's easier to spell than Pojoaque?


How 'bout Choctaw?

609 BatGuano  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:54:05pm

re: #606 Dark_Falcon

How old are you, young feller?

610 haakondahl  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:55:55pm

re: #598 Flyers1974

I think your words are being intentionally twisted beyond reason. It was pretty clear to me that you were discussing your own observations.

I went back and re-read Ed's bit, and I can see what he was trying to say, but it didn't read that way the first time through.

611 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:56:28pm

re: #602 Flyers1974

You hate Ronald Reagan obviously.

612 Steffan  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:57:01pm

re: #509 ShanghaiEd

RB: With all due respect, I don't think Native American ancestry is the equivalent of being black, Hispanic, Asian, Jewish, etc. to white bigots.

I grew up in Alabama during the church-bombing years...racism as hideous and over-the-top as it gets...and the only time I saw a Native American spoken of unkindly was in the Saturday westerns on TV.

If anything, the opposite was the case. At family reunions, the old guys...at least one of whom was a former Klansman...would pass around a photograph of my Cherokee great-grandmother and vie for who had most inherited her distinctive profile.

I can't vouch for other regions of the country, but in the South, even people who hate blacks will often exaggerate the extent of their Native American ancestry out of pride. Why do you think this is?

Don't know what to tell ya.

Any thoughts of reparations for slavery should be offset by the casualty numbers for the Union Army. There are a number of Medal of Honor winners who gave the "last, best measure of devotion" toward the Cause.

The first Native American general officers wore gray.

Give me something to brag about and I'll be proud. Given what I have, I believe I'll have another beer. Ya got to believe in something, right?

613 Flyers1974  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:57:16pm

re: #590 Fenway_Nation

And the republican voting record for that? I'm sure if it was as horrific as the Dixiecrats record, that would've been brought up non-stop by the MSM for the next 40 years.

LBJ used every source of power he had in order to get Republican's support for the act. Are you denying that the Republicans supported the south's stand against desegregation in the 1960's based on "state's rights?" Do you have an explanation for blacks leaving the Republican Party in droves? Or for Nixon's Southern Strategy?

614 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:57:56pm

re: #589 JacksonTn

SE ... right that is because they were in the South and never were around American Indians they were around blacks and to them American Indians were some sort of folklore or something ......

Uh, Jackson?

That was my whole point. OK?

615 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:58:02pm

Frankie McCourt died today.

My sister in law (SIL), had worked at WNET with her best friend, Ellen. She had since moved on to work as Jane Curtin's dogsbody. Ellen mentioned that she was dating this schoolteacher, seventeen years her senior. She said he made her happy and made her her laugh. Before my SIL moved to the UK to be Anthony Andrew's dogsbody, She Who Must Be Obeyed and myself went to see her. Ellen and Frankie showed up at the pub. This was probably three years before "Angela's Ashes" (AA) was published. He was delightful. We drank Guinness and told lies. Lovely.

I next saw Frankie and Ellen when he came to Austin for a talk to a crowd after AA was published. It was old home week! My SIL was in town! Frankie had not changed a bit. Telling stories, telling lies, with a twinkle.

We saw Ellen and Frankie twice since, both times in London, where my SIL was living (actually, during the first encounter she was living in London, the second time we trained in from the unfortunately named village of Leighton Buzzard, where she had relocated). The last time we got together Frankie complained about his myeloma, saying that as he was a human who, genetically, was, "white as aspirin" and horribly susceptible to the disease, it seemed unfair. He also said that, being Irish, he accepted that the hammer would reasonably fall squarely on his ass.

Right up to the end, he was a funny guy.

It wasn't the cancer that got him, though. It was an opportunistic meningitis infection that snuck in because of his chemotherapy.

He was a great guy, a great storyteller, and a dear friend. I grieve for his widow, Ellen, who is an absolute sweetheart, and all who knew him.

Good thoughts all around, please, from all Lizards.

616 haakondahl  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:58:29pm

re: #607 Wendya

It's easier to spell than Pojoaque?


As in Tesuque?

617 subsailor68  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:58:46pm

re: #603 NY Nana

You are right, but I have faced so damned much Jew hate in my 71 years....and cannot get visions of the Holocaust out of my mind...and the relatives we lost, who were not lucky enough to live here, in the USA...I now see Jew hate rising up like a sickness, so many years after. It seems that it just will not go away.

I do not think there is another blog on the internet that is like LGF, in regard to the support Charles gives to Israel and the Jewish posters.

Thanks for the words of encouragement re not going to sleep so angry...it would not be of any help.

But the hurt? It has been with me since I was a child. Just like 9/11, people want to forget the Holocaust, as it is so painful, but that is a mistake, IMHO. I notice so many people tie the Holocaust into any other thing they can think of, thus cheapening and belittling it. It is unique, and I pray that the world will never know another Holocaust. Never.

Please sleep well. I was raised a Presbyterian and I can tell you that - as long as I'm alive - folks will not forget the Holocaust.

And, as per the list I posted above, they'll also never forget how crappy life would be without the contributions made by our Jewish family - and how much we may have lost at the hands of monsters!

618 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 10:58:52pm

re: #603 NY Nana

You are right, but I have faced so damned much Jew hate in my 71 years....and cannot get visions of the Holocaust out of my mind...and the relatives we lost, who were not lucky enough to live here, in the USA...I now see Jew hate rising up like a sickness, so many years after. It seems that it just will not go away.

I do not think there is another blog on the internet that is like LGF, in regard to the support Charles gives to Israel and the Jewish posters.

Thanks for the words of encouragement re not going to sleep so angry...it would not be of any help.

But the hurt? It has been with me since I was a child. Just like 9/11, people want to forget the Holocaust, as it is so painful, but that is a mistake, IMHO. I notice so many people tie the Holocaust into any other thing they can think of, thus cheapening and belittling it. It is unique, and I pray that the world will never know another Holocaust. Never.


You are a sweet bubbie. We also have the IDF these days. Things are bubbling up badly all over the world for us. Again, we have the IDF these days.

When people on my campus try to bash Zionism, I point out that Zionism exists and needs to exist preceisly because of wankers like them.

Some of us love the people as much as ever and some of us can fight.

619 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:00:24pm

re: #610 haakondahl

I went back and re-read Ed's bit, and I can see what he was trying to say, but it didn't read that way the first time through.

Thanks, haak. I fumble my way towards meaning. Sometimes I get there, sometimes I don't.

620 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:00:34pm

re: #613 Flyers1974

Because they're all cross burning Klansmen- duh!

//

621 realwest  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:00:38pm

re: #565 Flyers1974
Well it's unfortunately very late for me here Flyers1974 because you made such an excellent comment.
But the problem lies, I think, more with the obtaining and holding onto political power - VOTES. And I don't think there is a lot of doubt about the fact that liberals do indeed think that if the government spends enough money on a problem, that alone will fix the problem. Conservatives, I think would say if you can spend just enough money to make it possible for people to find or fight their way UP the socio-economic ladder themselves, that is preferable. But the majority of minorities - Black, Latin-Hispanic live in urban centers and have indeed been the victims of hateful racisim which denied equal opportunity in education and then in jobs and then in housing and the leaders of most of Urban America are in fact Democrats. And they help to keep those who are truly downtrodden DOWN by keeping them dependent on governmental monetary assistance. Saying vote for me and I'll get you more money than my opponent almost always gets you more votes than someone who says vote for me and I'll make sure you get gainful, full time employment. And not because the minorities don't WANT to work, it's just that they've been lied to or misled about that so often, that they'll vote for and take the money from he or she who promises them the most money.
The Work to Welfare program was actually, ya know, working. People were able - with an assist - to get off of welfare and into more productive meaningful lives.
One of the first things President Obama did, was do away with Work to Welfare because, based probably on his actual experience as a community activist, he knew that the day would possibly come when "community activists" would no longer be needed nor would minorities continue to vote in overwhelming numbers in URBAN America, for the Democratic Party. They wouldn't need the Welfare anymore.
I realize that you are probably going to disagree with a lot of what I said, but as I also said, it's very late here, I'm feeling very ill now, and must go to sleep. I apologize to you for that.

622 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:01:55pm

re: #603 NY Nana

You are right, but I have faced so damned much Jew hate in my 71 years....and cannot get visions of the Holocaust out of my mind...and the relatives we lost, who were not lucky enough to live here, in the USA...I now see Jew hate rising up like a sickness, so many years after. It seems that it just will not go away.

I do not think there is another blog on the internet that is like LGF, in regard to the support Charles gives to Israel and the Jewish posters.

Thanks for the words of encouragement re not going to sleep so angry...it would not be of any help.

But the hurt? It has been with me since I was a child. Just like 9/11, people want to forget the Holocaust, as it is so painful, but that is a mistake, IMHO. I notice so many people tie the Holocaust into any other thing they can think of, thus cheapening and belittling it. It is unique, and I pray that the world will never know another Holocaust. Never.

I share that prayer. As I've said before, I can't understand how you feel but I do know that your feelings are an attempt to deal with horror that I've only read about. So you deal with those feeling however you need to, and I'll support you as best as I can. I will close by saying this: I read about the Holocaust in the context of my studies of World War II, and while its something I've only read about, I could not forget what I read about even if I wanted to. And I don't want to, because remembrance of past evils is the best way to prevent them from recurring.

On, that note, I must go to bed. Goodnight all, and fear no darkness.

623 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:02:11pm

Any Republican who holds a campaign rally in the south will be called a racist by Flyers1974.

624 Flyers1974  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:02:21pm

re: #610 haakondahl

I went back and re-read Ed's bit, and I can see what he was trying to say, but it didn't read that way the first time through.

No crime there, I've done the same thing myself. It is some of the strangly angry reactions to his post that leads me to believe such. A few seemed very eager to jump the gun and call him an asshole before bothering to get a clarification.

625 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:02:21pm

re: #609 BatGuano

How old are you, young feller?

31

626 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:02:52pm

re: #602 Flyers1974

I doubt very much Reagan was a racist. I think he was catering to racists in the south. Do you have an explanation why he would choose Philadelphia, Mississippi as the place to kick off his campaign?


Yes, there were and are racists in the south...not a voting bloc any sane politician would pander to. As far as distribution of racists....let's talk about Boston.

627 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:03:34pm

re: #613 Flyers1974

LBJ used every source of power he had in order to get Republican's support for the act. Are you denying that the Republicans supported the south's stand against desegregation in the 1960's based on "state's rights?" Do you have an explanation for blacks leaving the Republican Party in droves? Or for Nixon's Southern Strategy?

Flyers ... have you ever been in democrat strategy session for on the ground politics? ... really ... other than on the sidelines? ...

628 Wendya  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:03:51pm

re: #616 haakondahl

As in Tesuque?

Neighbors. Part of the 8 Northern Pueblos. Both are Tewa speaking.

629 realwest  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:05:07pm

Hey y'all it's been grand but I'm exhausted and must go to sleep.
But I again want to thank Swamprat and would ask all of you PLEASE if you see a news story about any sort of breakthrough in treating CANCER and especially in my case PROSTATE CANCER please don't hesitate to send me a link. My nic is in blue.
Thank you all very much. I do hope you all have a great evening/early morning and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.

Good night, all.

630 RunningBare  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:05:16pm

re: #593 BignJames

Ever wonder why most of them, it seems, claim Cherokee?

No idea. As long as they ain't claiming my nation, I dont' care why LOL...

631 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:05:28pm

OK, now I must truly go to bed. I wish you all the best. Have a great evening and I never did make it to the lab properly...

Oh well, more work tomorrow for this fool.

Sleep well.

632 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:05:33pm

re: #601 RunningBare

Fair enough. It just seemed like a broad generalization. I hate those.

Thanks, Running Bare.

I have sore spots of my own, and I would never presume to generalize about your life.

So are you and I okay, on that?

And out of curiosity, have you ever been to Birmingham, Alabama?

633 subsailor68  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:05:34pm

re: #383 subsailor68

re: #615 austin_blue

Hi austin_blue! My 383 was written simply to highlight the difference between the spleen of Pat Buchanan and the beauty of Frank McCourt. You were truly blessed to have had the chance to know him!! He sleeps with the angels, and that's fitting.

634 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:05:37pm

Maybe Flyers can also explain Howard Dean's comments about the Dems needing to get the vote of Southerners driving the pickup trucks w/the gun racks and confederate flags......I mean gosh golly gee- those are icky rednecks that the DNC would probably want to keep at arm's length.

635 Flyers1974  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:05:40pm

re: #623 MrPaulRevere

Any Republican who holds a campaign rally in the south will be called a racist by Flyers1974.

Oh no, you are completely ignorant aren't you? You really don't know the significance behind Philadelphia, Mississippi? As distinguished from the south in general?

636 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:10:24pm

re: #635 Flyers1974

The town where some civil rights workers were killed by the Klan. Can you provide us w/a linky that this is where Reagan kicked off his campaign?

Crooks and liars or media matters don't count.

Is this the same Philadelphia with a black mayor today?

637 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:10:28pm

re: #635 Flyers1974

Oh no, you are completely ignorant aren't you? You really don't know the significance behind Philadelphia, Mississippi? As distinguished from the south in general?


Because killed some northern voter registration workers, instead of their usual victims?

638 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:10:47pm

re: #630 RunningBare

No idea. As long as they ain't claiming my nation, I dont' care why LOL...

RB & Bign: In my town, our Cherokee blood stood out because most everybody else claimed Creek. But as I said, I guess it's a regional thing.

639 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:11:33pm

re: #637 BignJames

Because the klan killed some northern voter registration workers, instead of their usual victims?

pimf

640 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:12:24pm

re: #633 subsailor68

re: #615 austin_blue

Hi austin_blue! My 383 was written simply to highlight the difference between the spleen of Pat Buchanan and the beauty of Frank McCourt. You were truly blessed to have had the chance to know him!! He sleeps with the angels, and that's fitting.

He was a sweet, sweet man. I was lucky to have known him, and mourn his loss. My real concern goes to Ellen, who has lost her husband and life partner.

641 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:14:06pm

re: #640 austin_blue

He was a sweet, sweet man. I was lucky to have known him, and mourn his loss. My real concern goes to Ellen, who has lost her husband and life partner.

AB ... I loved his books ... being an Irish Catholic I am sure made me like him more ... but I felt his stories ... rip Frank ...

642 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:15:13pm

re: #638 ShanghaiEd

RB & Bign: In my town, our Cherokee blood stood out because most everybody else claimed Creek. But as I said, I guess it's a regional thing.


Cherokee were a large nation pre colonial. They were dominant over many smaller southeastern tribes.

643 subsailor68  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:15:30pm

re: #640 austin_blue

He was a sweet, sweet man. I was lucky to have known him, and mourn his loss. My real concern goes to Ellen, who has lost her husband and life partner.

You see, you've hit upon it. You were lucky to know him, and that's a blessing. Your dear friend Ellen was lucky to have had a life with him, and that's a wonderful blessing. You were both very fortunate, and it does sound like he was too.

Rest in peace, Mr. McCourt - you are one of the few who left this world a wee bit better than you found it.

644 NY Nana  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:16:13pm

re: #560 Fenway_Nation

G'nite Nana....don't sleep angry.

Thanks. I have calmed down, and I have to wonder how a POS like Buchanan can live with himself. I have a feeling that his upbringing had something to do with it.

You've got to be taught:

Youtube Video

I really am off to sleep. G'nite, all. Sweet dreams!

645 Flyers1974  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:16:41pm

re: #626 BignJames

Yes, there were and are racists in the south...not a voting bloc any sane politician would pander to. As far as distribution of racists....let's talk about Boston.

No doubt Boston was very racist, I remember the busing issue, among other things. As was most of the US. The point is not that racism was limited to the south. The point is that there are reasons the Republicans are saddled with racism baggage. They used the issue to their advantage to win the south. They continued to exploit the issue until fairly recently. Denying that history as they do, even if today's Republicans are in fact not racist, is not going to help them win over blacks, that's for sure.

646 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:19:14pm

re: #645 Flyers1974

And Howard Dean's comments about wooing voters with gun racks and Confederate flags?

647 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:19:15pm

re: #636 Fenway_Nation

The town where some civil rights workers were killed by the Klan. Can you provide us w/a linky that this is where Reagan kicked off his campaign?

Crooks and liars or media matters don't count.

Is this the same Philadelphia with a black mayor today?

Here you go...

Ronald Reagan's "states' rights" speech given on August 3, 1980, was Ronald Reagan's first public address after the Republican National Convention officially chose him as the Republican nominee for President of the United States. The speech drew attention for his use of the phrase "states' rights" at the Neshoba County Fair, just a few miles from Philadelphia, Mississippi, a town associated with the 1964 murders of civil rights workers. Reagan said, "I believe in states' rights ... I believe we have distorted the balance of our government today by giving powers that were never intended to be given in the Constitution to that federal establishment."

He went on to promise to "restore to states and local governments the power that properly belongs to them".[1] The use of the phrase was seen by some as a tacit appeal to Southern white voters and a continuation of Richard Nixon's Southern Strategy, while others argued it merely reflected his libertarian economic beliefs.[2]

I would also add that while "states' rights" sounds fairly innocuous today, it was the chosen dogwhistle for segregationists when I was growing up, and my folks knew exactly what Reagan meant.

648 RunningBare  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:19:35pm

re: #632 ShanghaiEd

Thanks, Running Bare.

I have sore spots of my own, and I would never presume to generalize about your life.

So are you and I okay, on that?

And out of curiosity, have you ever been to Birmingham, Alabama?

We're cool. I've been all over the south :) I especially enjoyed spending weekends in INS detention centers in florida, because I was a brown homeless guy with no ID who talked funny, and would get picked up in sweeps in South Miami Beach frequently. God, I miss the 80s. ;)

649 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:19:51pm

re: #645 Flyers1974

No doubt Boston was very racist, I remember the busing issue, among other things. As was most of the US. The point is not that racism was limited to the south. The point is that there are reasons the Republicans are saddled with racism baggage. They used the issue to their advantage to win the south. They continued to exploit the issue until fairly recently. Denying that history as they do, even if today's Republicans are in fact not racist, is not going to help them win over blacks, that's for sure.


They won't win over blacks or any other "victim class" until they buy them...like the democrats do.

650 philip  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:20:22pm

re: #523 haakondahl

I'm going to asume that this is an honest statement of a heartfelt frustration rather than a trollish mis-application of a valid principle at the wrong target.
There are shitheads everywhere you turn, and if you assume that the worst in any group is representative of that group, and therefore remove yourself from the only process that can improve things, then I assure that no matter how bleak things may seem, they will only get worse.
So Buck Up, li'l Camper! Don't wish for things--work for them.

It was an honest observation about a party I used to always look up to.

Unfortunately I cannot shake the feeling that there are many in the GOP who embrace hostility to blacks, gays, Jews, Hispanics, Muslims, and other minorities.

As someone whose family tree has been devastated by the Holocaust, I cannot find any relevance to my values in a party that would even entertain or tolerate racist, xenophobic or homophobic views by any of its members.

651 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:20:35pm

re: #647 ShanghaiEd

Too fucking slow.

Others, including the Washington Post editorial page, noted that there was nothing racist about Reagan's use of the phrase "states' rights" in the context of the speech; the National Review criticized Jimmy Carter's allegations of racism, calling them "frightful distortions, bordering on outright lies."[6] David Brooks of The New York Times called the attention paid to the "states' right" 'phrase a "slur" and a "distortion". He wrote that the campaign had been somewhat forced by the county fair organizers who had announced Regan's appearance, and that the "states' rights" phrase was used in the part of his speech, mostly about inflation and the economy, where he spoke about schools. Brooks wrote that Reagan had been courting black voters at that time, and he flew to New York City after the speech to deliver an address to the Urban League.[7]

652 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:22:32pm

re: #645 Flyers1974

No doubt Boston was very racist, I remember the busing issue, among other things. As was most of the US. The point is not that racism was limited to the south. The point is that there are reasons the Republicans are saddled with racism baggage. They used the issue to their advantage to win the south. They continued to exploit the issue until fairly recently. Denying that history as they do, even if today's Republicans are in fact not racist, is not going to help them win over blacks, that's for sure.

F1974 .. if it sounds bad ... I don't care ... the democrats have made it seem as thought they are the party that will "give" ... whether that is with other peoples money or not ... they have made it seem as thought they are the party to "make it right" ... they make it sound as if the are the only "fair" party ... it is way beyond white or black ... it will come in the next wave with the hispanics ... and before anyone throws the race card at me ... it is just the facts as to the numbers of voters they can bring to the democrats ... they will try to make them legal ... it will bring their base to the numbers they need for future elections ... it is all numbers at this point ... nothing more ....

653 capitalist piglet  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:23:08pm

re: #645 Flyers1974

No doubt Boston was very racist, I remember the busing issue, among other things. As was most of the US. The point is not that racism was limited to the south. The point is that there are reasons the Republicans are saddled with racism baggage. They used the issue to their advantage to win the south. They continued to exploit the issue until fairly recently. Denying that history as they do, even if today's Republicans are in fact not racist, is not going to help them win over blacks, that's for sure.

If Barbara Boxer can talk to a man the way she did the head of the Black Chamber of Commerce and get away with it - especially considering that she seems to reflect a pervasive attitude among her fellow Democrats - then there probably isn't a damned thing Republicans can do to win over the majority of Black Americans anyway.

654 subsailor68  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:23:13pm

Well all, it's time for bed. I hope everyone here has a wonderful evening!

655 Flyers1974  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:23:54pm

re: #637 BignJames

Because killed some northern voter registration workers, instead of their usual victims?

If you don't see the symbolic significance of Philadelphia, Mississippi, to blacks, and to the civil rights movment in general, even more so back in 1980, I don't know what more to say. .

656 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:24:49pm

re: #655 Flyers1974

*GASP!*

Does this mean you talk to us anymore?

/say it ain't so!

657 RunningBare  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:26:02pm

re: #642 BignJames

Cherokee were a large nation pre colonial. They were dominant over many smaller southeastern tribes.


Of course they were dominant in their region - Though I'm loathe to admit it, they were related to the Haudenosaunee, after all ;)

658 NY Nana  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:26:04pm

re: #645 Flyers1974

Ahhh, Boston was very anti-Semitic when I was growing up...restrictions as to where Jews could live, and no jobs at banks, insurance companies, and the little things like having a Jewish surname, which would cause a restaurant to cancel very politely. To this day, I am so proud of my Dad zt"l, who refused to change ours.

When I graduated from High School in 1955, so many of my classmates were not let into the Ivies, even though my High School was one of the best in the State...there were unwritten 'quotas' to keep Jews out. My parents could not buy the house until I was 13, and the restrictions were loosening up.

I could go on and on, but really am falling asleep. I am so glad that our 4 kids and 3 little grandkids never had to face this.

659 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:26:41pm

re: #646 Fenway_Nation

And Howard Dean's comments about wooing voters with gun racks and Confederate flags?

And don't forget the Clintons. :)

660 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:27:29pm

re: #659 ShanghaiEd

And don't forget the Clintons. :)

SE ... the Clintons bent over ... that is all I have to say about them ...

661 capitalist piglet  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:28:03pm

re: #650 philip

It was an honest observation about a party I used to always look up to.

Unfortunately I cannot shake the feeling that there are many in the GOP who embrace hostility to blacks, gays, Jews, Hispanics, Muslims, and other minorities.

As someone whose family tree has been devastated by the Holocaust, I cannot find any relevance to my values in a party that would even entertain or tolerate racist, xenophobic or homophobic views by any of its members.

I can speak only for my own real-life experience, but the only openly anti-Semitic people I know are Democrats. I have one family in mind in particular (and my friend RunningBare will know who I'm talking about), and they are open, vile, and all Democrats.

662 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:28:52pm

re: #655 Flyers1974

If you don't see the symbolic significance of Philadelphia, Mississippi, to blacks, and to the civil rights movment in general, even more so back in 1980, I don't know what more to say. .

What was happening in 1980 re civil rights?

663 Flyers1974  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:29:13pm

re: #649 BignJames

They won't win over blacks or any other "victim class" until they buy them...like the democrats do.

So you think that blacks' voting patterns is neatly summed up by saying the Democrats bought their votes? Good luck to your party in trying to remedy that situation.

664 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:29:20pm

re: #659 ShanghaiEd

Oh...I remember some co-workers bitching and moaning about the Southern states that carried Bush in '04 and how they should be jettisoned from the union because they didn't vote Dem in 2000 or 2004.

"Where did the last Democrat in the White House come from?" I asked.

"And the one before him?"

665 Gus  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:30:22pm

That's not the whole story.

Reagan's speech at the Neshoba Fair was followed by another speech at the Urban League in NYC. Michael Dukakis even spoke at the Neshoba Fair:

Roundup: Talking About History

Bruce Bartlett: Reagan and Neshoba

Indeed, 1988 Democratic presidential nominee Michael Dukakis made a point of speaking at the Neshoba County Fair without bothering to mention the martyred civil rights workers in his speech. Ironically, it was Reagan aides’ efforts to minimize the racial impact of the Neshoba speech by following it with a speech to the largely black National Urban League that caused much of the subsequent controversy. Lou Cannon of the Washington Post explained their thinking in a contemporary report:

Originally, Reagan was scheduled to make the Urban League appearance first, and then fly to deliver his speech here at the Neshoba County Fair. But some in the campaign objected to the symbolism of Reagan going to a community where three civil rights workers were slain with the complicity of local police officials in 1964. “It would have been like we were coming to Mississippi and winking at the folks here, saying we didn’t really mean to be talking to them Urban League folk,” said one Reagan source. “It would have been the wrong signal.”

Reagan followed his Neshoba speech with a strong pitch for black support at the Urban League convention in New York City. He even repeated his call for federal functions to be devolved to the states. As he would on other occasions as well, Reagan emphasized that the biggest problems of African Americans were the same ones affecting all Americans—inflation, unemployment and so on. This may not have been what the delegates wanted to hear, but it shows the sincerity of Reagan’s beliefs that he was willing to explain them to an audience he knew was unlikely to be receptive.

Over the years, Reagan’s Neshoba speech has often been cited by liberals like New York Times columnists Paul Krugman and Bob Herbert as proof positive that the Republican Party has long courted the votes of Southern racists. Whatever the merits of this argument, the Neshoba speech is extremely weak evidence for it.

666 Flyers1974  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:31:24pm

re: #662 BignJames

What was happening in 1980 re civil rights?

Nothing was happening. It was much closer in time to the civil rights era and to what happenned in Philadelphia, Mississippi. Not much of a chance that speaking there was an oversight.

667 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:32:16pm

re: #629 realwest

Dagnabbit, missed you again!
{RW}
Hah! I can still send a hug!

668 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:32:36pm

re: #666 Flyers1974

And the Urban League speech on the same day, brainiac?

669 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:33:12pm

re: #663 Flyers1974

So you think that blacks' voting patterns is neatly summed up by saying the Democrats bought their votes? Good luck to your party in trying to remedy that situation.

I'm not a Republican.

670 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:33:37pm

re: #663 Flyers1974

So you think that blacks' voting patterns is neatly summed up by saying the Democrats bought their votes? Good luck to your party in trying to remedy that situation.

Flyers ... and if you don't think many black Obama voters voted for him just because he was black and they were waiting on stimulus check? ... what ... oh granted most blacks vote democrat regardless ... blindly ... but even more so this election ... if you think otherwise ... you are crazy ....

671 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:34:11pm

re: #651 Fenway_Nation

Too fucking slow.

Well, who am I to question the editorial pages of The Washington Post, The New York Times, and the National Review? :)

Oops. You left out this part:

Given the history of Philadelphia, and Reagan's use of the words "states' rights", often interpreted as a desire to return to pre-Civil Rights laws regarding segregation, many felt that Reagan was at least insensitive to the concerns of blacks, or that he even was using this location and these words as a cynical appeal to the white racist vote. Columnist Bob Herbert of The New York Times wrote, "Everybody watching the 1980 campaign knew what Reagan was signaling at the fair", and that it "was understood that when politicians started chirping about “states’ rights” to white people in places like Neshoba County they were saying that when it comes down to you and the blacks, we’re with you".[3] Paul Krugman, also of the Times, noted that a Republican national committee member from Mississippi had urged Reagan to speak at the county fair, as it would help win over “George Wallace inclined voters”, and wrote that this was just one of many examples of "Reagan’s tacit race-baiting in the historical record",[4]

Eulogizing on Reagan's death Washington Post columnist William Raspberry noted of the incident,

"It was bitter symbolism for black Americans (though surely not just for black Americans). Countless observers have noted that Reagan took the Republican Party from virtual irrelevance to the ascendancy it now enjoys. The essence of that transformation, we shouldn't forget, is the party's successful wooing of the race-exploiting Southern Democrats formerly known as Dixiecrats. And Reagan's Philadelphia appearance was an important bouquet in that courtship."[5]

***
Do you agree that, even if Reagan's campaign didn't have a racist bone in its body, scheduling his kickoff address in Philadelphia, Miss., with a symbolic shout-out to George Wallace, was at least a bone-headed thing to do from a public relations standpoint?

If not, I got nothin', Nels. I'll have to pack it in, on this one.

672 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:34:12pm

re: #641 JacksonTn

AB ... I loved his books ... being an Irish Catholic I am sure made me like him more ... but I felt his stories ... rip Frank ...

Thanks, Jackson.

673 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:34:39pm

re: #670 JacksonTn

Isn't it wonderful how these progressives are willing to give the GOP this wonderful, unsolicited free advice?

674 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:35:09pm

re: #663 Flyers1974

So you think that blacks' voting patterns is neatly summed up by saying the Democrats bought their votes? Good luck to your party in trying to remedy that situation.


Are you saying that democrats don't pander to blacks?

675 Syrah  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:35:38pm

re: #673 Fenway_Nation

Isn't it wonderful how these progressives are willing to give the GOP this wonderful, unsolicited free advice?

Their advice is unconstrained.

676 Flyers1974  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:35:44pm

re: #646 Fenway_Nation

And Howard Dean's comments about wooing voters with gun racks and Confederate flags?

I remember that comment very well. Good luck in convincing anyone that this cancels out the Republicans' history of supporting opposition to desegregation, etc... .

677 JacksonTn  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:36:32pm

re: #673 Fenway_Nation

Isn't it wonderful how these progressives are willing to give the GOP this wonderful, unsolicited free advice?

FN ... isn't it? .... I know the repubs need all the help they can get ... but the death by pillow ... I am sure is not what they really need ...

678 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:37:09pm

re: #676 Flyers1974

It's alot more recent, that's for damn sure.

679 Flyers1974  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:37:31pm

re: #674 BignJames

Are you saying that democrats don't pander to blacks?

No, in fact, on this very blog I've noted that Democrats pander to Blacks. I've also noted on here that racism today is highly overrated.

680 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:38:28pm

re: #536 subsailor68

BTW - back at ya -- since you nailed Holden perfectly, go for it: who plays the Kid?

(If I give you Hoffman - and I sure do! - any possibility that Edward Norton can handle the Kid?)

You know, I think Norton could be fantastic.

You've got me wanting to see this movie, sub. :)

681 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:38:29pm

re: #676 Flyers1974

I remember that comment very well. Good luck in convincing anyone that this cancels out the Republicans' history of supporting opposition to desegregation, etc... .


And tell me again who controlled local politics in Boston?

682 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:38:35pm

re: #671 ShanghaiEd


Well, who am I to question the editorial pages of The Washington Post, The New York Times, and the National Review? :)

A rational human being......at least if you ever did question the editorial pages of any of those publications at least.

683 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:40:10pm

re: #681 BignJames


The Dixiecrats?

/

684 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:41:02pm

re: #683 Fenway_Nation

The Dixiecrats?

/


Stealth Republicans.

685 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:42:34pm

re: #679 Flyers1974

No, in fact, on this very blog I've noted that Democrats pander to Blacks. I've also noted on here that racism today is highly overrated.


You'll have to point that post out to me.....I'm dense.

686 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:46:23pm

re: #664 Fenway_Nation

Oh...I remember some co-workers bitching and moaning about the Southern states that carried Bush in '04 and how they should be jettisoned from the union because they didn't vote Dem in 2000 or 2004.

"Where did the last Democrat in the White House come from?" I asked.

"And the one before him?"

You'll have to take that up with your co-workers, Fenway. I know more about history than they do. And I don't support jettisoning, either :)

687 Syrah  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:47:24pm

re: #679 Flyers1974

No, in fact, on this very blog I've noted that Democrats pander to Blacks. I've also noted on here that racism today is highly overrated.

WTF?

688 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:49:58pm

re: #682 Fenway_Nation

A rational human being......at least if you ever did question the editorial pages of any of those publications at least.

You've lost me, Fenway. I'm just saying I don't generally use opinion columns to back up my arguments...especially sources that folks here consider "the enemy."

689 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:51:50pm

I enjoyed it, folks! Been a very productive day, I think. I'd better go turn it in and prepare for Monday. Good night.

690 Wendya  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:51:59pm

re: #676 Flyers1974

I remember that comment very well. Good luck in convincing anyone that this cancels out the Republicans' history of supporting opposition to desegregation, etc... .

Just out of curiosity, how old were you when you graduated from High School?

691 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:52:11pm

re: #688 ShanghaiEd

You've lost me, Fenway. I'm just saying I don't generally use opinion columns to back up my arguments...especially sources that folks here consider "the enemy."


I don't consider them "the enemy".....I consider them "wrong"...most of the time.

692 Flyers1974  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:53:02pm

re: #685 BignJames

You'll have to point that post out to me.....I'm dense.

If you are dense, its not because you haven't committed all my posts to memory. Recently, here in a similiar discussion, I pointed to the Sharptons and Jacksons of the world contributing to the race issue by exploiting past discrimination for personal enrichment. And I'm pretty sure that was not the only time. I also maintained, and still maintain, that racism today is highly overrated. The issue is not current racism by Republicans. It is past discrimination, or at least past support for discrimination, combined with today's denial of that past that is the issue.

693 Flyers1974  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:56:21pm

re: #687 Syrah

WTF?

Democrats pander to the likes of Sharpton and Jackson who exploit racism. Are you surprised by that statement? And racism is no where near the problem that it was in the 1960's and before. Not even in the same ballpark.

694 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:57:00pm

re: #98 Salamantis


/Channeling the SNL Belushi skit about the pirate ship The Raging Queen

On the subject of SNL, the "it's Pat" graphic below his fugly mug reminds me of the SNL skit starring a gender-confused character of the same name.

695 BignJames  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:57:29pm

re: #692 Flyers1974


I haven't commited any of your posts to memory...I've only engaged you once before.....about a month or so ago....You stated you were an Obama voter....and I believe you stated some reasons why. However then, as now I believe you were speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

696 Syrah  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:58:01pm

re: #693 Flyers1974

Democrats pander to the likes of Sharpton and Jackson who exploit racism. Are you surprised by that statement? And racism is no where near the problem that it was in the 1960's and before. Not even in the same ballpark.

I am surprised by how much of a ruckus you are making about something that you say is overrated.

697 Flyers1974  Sun, Jul 19, 2009 11:58:17pm

re: #690 Wendya

Just out of curiosity, how old were you when you graduated from High School?

Not old enough to personally have witnessed the civil rights movement if that's what you are getting at.

698 JacksonTn  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:00:11am

re: #696 Syrah

I am surprised by how much of a ruckus you are making about something that you say is overrated.

Syrah ... clinging ...

699 Flyers1974  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:00:59am

re: #696 Syrah

I am surprised by how much of a ruckus you are making about something that you say is overrated.

Go back and check the history of this thread. I responded to one person's post which discussed these issues. That brought on a deluge of responses.

700 BignJames  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:01:25am

re: #697 Flyers1974

Not old enough to personally have witnessed the civil rights movement if that's what you are getting at.


I did. In the south. I saw some terribly unjust things.

701 Gus  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:02:43am

obnoxious [uhb-nok-shuhs]

adjective

1. highly objectionable or offensive; odious: obnoxious behavior.
2. annoying or objectionable due to being a showoff or attracting undue attention to oneself: an obnoxious little brat.
3. Archaic. exposed or liable to harm, evil, or anything objectionable.
4. Obsolete. liable to punishment or censure; reprehensible.

702 Syrah  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:05:16am

re: #699 Flyers1974

Go back and check the history of this thread. I responded to one person's post which discussed these issues. That brought on a deluge of responses.

You are making a terrible big deal about something that you claim is overrated.

Is it as overrated as you claimed?

703 Flyers1974  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:09:05am

re: #695 BignJames

I haven't commited any of your posts to memory...I've only engaged you once before.....about a month or so ago....You stated you were an Obama voter....and I believe you stated some reasons why. However then, as now I believe you were speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

I think you are confused because my beliefs as to what the situation is today, is not what you were expecting.

704 Flyers1974  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:13:42am

re: #700 BignJames

I did. In the south. I saw some terribly unjust things.

Yet you also stated earlier that Blacks won't vote Republican until the Republicans buy their votes like the Democrats do.

705 BignJames  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:13:43am

re: #703 Flyers1974

I think you are confused because my beliefs as to what the situation is today, is not what you were expecting.


Yep, that's me...easily confused.

706 BignJames  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:14:33am

re: #704 Flyers1974

Yet you also stated earlier that Blacks won't vote Republican until the Republicans buy their votes like the Democrats do.

And?

707 Flyers1974  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:15:40am

re: #702 Syrah

You are making a terrible big deal about something that you claim is overrated.

Is it as overrated as you claimed?

I do respond to posts. Do you wish me to stop responding? Must we only discuss the most pressing issues of the day?

708 Syrah  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:16:50am

re: #707 Flyers1974

I do respond to posts. Do you wish me to stop responding? Must we only discuss the most pressing issues of the day?

Respond all you like to whatever you like.

Just be aware of what message you are sending.

709 Flyers1974  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:18:55am

re: #705 BignJames

I cannot think of any other reason why you would be think me to be talking out of both sides of my mouth - other than confusion or shall I say suprise as to why I would take the liberal position in one instance (the past conduct of the parties) but not the other (racism as a non-issue today.)

710 BignJames  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:22:00am

re: #709 Flyers1974

I cannot think of any other reason why you would be think me to be talking out of both sides of my mouth - other than confusion or shall I say suprise as to why I would take the liberal position in one instance (the past conduct of the parties) but not the other (racism as a non-issue today.)


Is it your belief that racism is not an issue today or that racism is not made into an issue today?

711 BignJames  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:22:44am

re: #710 BignJames

Is it your belief that racism is not an issue today or that racism is not made into an issue today?

Or both?

712 Flyers1974  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:24:39am

re: #706 BignJames

And?

Your statement about blacks voting Democratic because their votes were bought seems contra to your admission that terrible things happened during the civil rights era. I'd guess most historians would say black voting patterns are connected to those terrible things which happened.

713 Flyers1974  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:28:54am

re: #711 BignJames

Or both?

My belief is that racism in the US today is nowhere near what it was in the 1960's or even 1970's. People's attitudes have changed and civil rights legislation has been very effective. I believe there are still effects from past racism, but no where near the level of overt racism that existed before.

714 BignJames  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:29:49am

re: #704 Flyers1974

Yet you also stated earlier that Blacks won't vote Republican until the Republicans buy their votes like the Democrats do.

Here's a little exercise....suppose Republicans lined up behind a reparations bill and Democrats didn't...don't you think there'd be a bunch of bandwagon jumping going on? And this kind of thing isn't exclusive to blacks....it would work for any voting bloc....it's called politics....it's what politicians do to stay in office.

715 Flyers1974  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:32:23am

re: #711 BignJames

Or both?

I also believe that both parties exploit racism. The Democrats often encourage the idea that Republicans are racist today, and the Republicans from time to time play on the what racism does exist.

716 BignJames  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:33:37am

re: #712 Flyers1974

Your statement about blacks voting Democratic because their votes were bought seems contra to your admission that terrible things happened during the civil rights era. I'd guess most historians would say black voting patterns are connected to those terrible things which happened.

BTW....terrible things happened before the civil rights era ,too.

717 BignJames  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:34:35am

re: #715 Flyers1974

I also believe that both parties exploit racism. The Democrats often encourage the idea that Republicans are racist today, and the Republicans from time to time play on the what racism does exist.

I think you're probably right.

718 Flyers1974  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:35:05am

re: #714 BignJames

Here's a little exercise....suppose Republicans lined up behind a reparations bill and Democrats didn't...don't you think there'd be a bunch of bandwagon jumping going on? And this kind of thing isn't exclusive to blacks....it would work for any voting bloc....it's called politics....it's what politicians do to stay in office.

There would be a whole lot of bandwagon jumping going on. On both sides. Many heads would simultaneously explode.

719 Flyers1974  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:39:47am

re: #716 BignJames

BTW....terrible things happened before the civil rights era ,too.

No doubt about that. Things only came to a head during the civil rights era because blacks started demanding their rights, and whites began to agree. My guess is that you and I don't disagree on a whole lot here regarding this subject.

720 BignJames  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:41:59am

re: #719 Flyers1974

Have you ever read John Locke?

721 Flyers1974  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:49:14am

re: #720 BignJames

Have you ever read John Locke?

Yes, in college, but its been a long time. I've forgotten most, sadly. I remember vaguely comparing him to Hobbes, Hobbes being pro-authoritarian, locke being for individual liberty. I'm struggling here as you can tell.

722 BignJames  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:51:02am

re: #721 Flyers1974

Gotta go Flyers....have a great day.

723 Flyers1974  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:52:28am

re: #722 BignJames

Gotta go Flyers....have a great day.

You as well.

724 Syrah  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:54:21am

re: #721 Flyers1974

A recommendation for you.

A Conflict of Visions.

It bares somewhat on, if somewhat indirectly, to the discussion on this thread.

725 BatGuano  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:59:12am

re: #625 Dark_Falcon

You're a baby!. I have Levi jackets older than you. :)

726 Salamantis  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 1:37:12am

re: #694 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey

On the subject of SNL, the "it's Pat" graphic below his fugly mug reminds me of the SNL skit starring a gender-confused character of the same name.

And guess who played Pat?

Al Franken.

727 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:07:01am
728 sagehen  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:29:22am

re: #727 Iron Fist

The Republicans freed the slaves, and they've been voting Democrat ever since. Not entirely true, at least not immediately after the Civil War (but, then, how many blacks really could vote after the end of the Civil War?), but it is clearly true to day. What do you think is the reason for that?


Not even close to true.

From the end of the civil war all the way through to Calvin Coolidge, blacks voted solid Republican -- over 95%.

Then the levees broke They didn't break naturally; they were blown up at a part of the river where mostly black people lived, in order to save New Orleans. The displaced residents were hideously mistreated afterwards, by Commerce Secretary Herbert Hoover, who'd been put in charge of flood relief.

Black voters then became a solid, reliable Democrat voting bloc for almost 30 years.

It took until Eisenhower for the Republicans to start winning back black voters; it was only a partial shift, because Ike made it known that he vehemently didn't agree with the Brown v. Board decision. He'd had his administration submit briefs in opposition. He followed through with the desegregation because even though he hated he decision, he felt very strongly that the Supreme Court is Supreme. Anything they said had to be done, like it or not, he was damn well going to enforce their decisions.

Then Johnson pushed through the Civil Rights Act, Nixon's campaign had their southern strategy, and you can forget about any black voters still giving the Republicans any loyalty for something that happened in the mid-19th century. That statute of limitations has long run out.

729 ihateronpaul  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 6:36:31am

The "if she wasn't hispanic she wouldn't be nominated" argument quickly leads to trash like this, because it implies that a white person should have been nominated in her place.

730 Korla Pundit  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 7:22:11am

I think Buchanan is an embarrassment and wish he would just go away, but I don't see any inaccuracies in that little quote you pulled, to be fair. He was answering the question (and a stupid one) of why so many Supremes were white. (Duh.) Because for much of its history, whites ran the country, its culture and institutions were based on northern European cultures, and nonwhites were discriminated against.

I won't watch the clip, so maybe the way he said it makes it sound worse, but it reads pretty reasonable to me. The quote itself did not include any endorsement of this history, or claim that we should go back to a 90% white majority, or send ethnic groups "back where they came from," or any of the usual racist garbage you might expect.

You should pick on the really crazy crap from these people, instead of the more reasonable quotes, or you risk gaining them some sympathy.

731 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:09:04am

re: #730 Korla Pundit

I won't watch the clip, so maybe the way he said it makes it sound worse, but it reads pretty reasonable to me. The quote itself did not include any endorsement of this history, or claim that we should go back to a 90% white majority, or send ethnic groups "back where they came from," or any of the usual racist garbage you might expect.

You should pick on the really crazy crap from these people, instead of the more reasonable quotes, or you risk gaining them some sympathy.

So you didn't watch it, but you still choose to defend Buchanan's white supremacist statements as "reasonable." Gotcha.

732 Land Shark  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:25:16am

re: #713 Flyers1974

My belief is that racism in the US today is nowhere near what it was in the 1960's or even 1970's. People's attitudes have changed and civil rights legislation has been very effective. I believe there are still effects from past racism, but no where near the level of overt racism that existed before.

I agree. While racism is something that will never be completely gone, you're always gonna have people who are racist, the situation now is far better than it was back then. Blacks and other minorities have made progress in all areas of society and society is less tolerant of racism and discrimination. Today you see many people in prominent positions you would have never seen back in the 70s. Back then I could hear white people using the "N" word and other racially derogatory terms in casual conversation when they thought it was only white people around, today I never hear it.

You would think that the election of Barrack Obama as President of the US would put to rest the notion our country is racist. There's no way he gets elected if a substantial number of white people hadn't voted for him. While I'm opposed to Obama, my opposition is based on his beliefs and policies, not the color of his skin. I don't expect the Democrats to stop making use of the racism thing, though. It's worked well for them and there's a substantial portion of people who still believe the US is still a racist country, in spite of the clear evidence to the contrary.

Racism will unfortunately never be completely eradicated, you can't fix stupid, but at least we can be proud of the substantial progress made in the right direction. In spite of what some people think.

733 Land Shark  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:36:56am

re: #731 Charles

Buchanan is simply indefensible. I would say his latest is clear evidence he's a white supremacist. As if there wasn't enough evidence before that.
On top of that he makes a leftist whack job like Rachel Maddow, who I dislike as much as Buchanan, look almost reasonable. Good grief!

Piss off, Pat!

734 Rancher  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:21:35am

"100% of the people who died at Gettysburg and Vicksburg"

Not true.

"The campaign, siege, and defense of Vicksburg provides two of the earliest instances of African American soldiers serving in combat during the Civil War."

[Link: www.nps.gov...]

735 koedo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:20:07am

I like Pat B. but he always insists on going 5 laps in a 4 lap race. If he'd just stop 2/3 of the way through, he'd make a lot of sense.

Except some of that stuff he says about the holocaust.

Oh yea, and that violent crime problem one of his campaign workers got caught up in.

And that Demjanjuk comparison to Jesus didn't help anything.

//

736 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:55:30pm

re: #6 Occasional Reader

Yeah, Pat, it was really darned inconsiderate of those black folks not to participate in that stuff, wasn't it?

Of course, most of them would have had to... you know, escape slavery and so forth first.

"Look lady, just because my grandfather didn't rape the environment and exploit the workers doesn't make me a peasant! And it's not that he didn't want to rape the environment and exploit the workers! I'm sure he did! It's just that working as a barber he didn't have all that much opportunity!"

Steve Martin at his finest....

737 machalot  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:03:20pm

Maddow's "108 out of 110 justices have been white males" is a red herring. As Buchanan acknowledged, black Americans were victims of discrimination for a large part of American history. Thankfully that sad fact has been getting better since about 1960, but before 1960 you should not be surprised to see zero minority judges. I think it is safe to say the situation has changed.

In the 1960 census, the population was about 90% white and 10% minorities, predominantly black.

Since the Civil Rights era starting in 1960, two out of 18 Supreme Court justices have been minorities, which is 11%. Most of the qualified minority candidates between 1960 and today would have been blacks born before or around 1960, so the portion of minorities among the pool of judges during that time would be close to 10%.

So I think to find that 11% of Supreme Court justices in the last 50 years have been minorities is about what you'd expect, isn't it? Maddow has to use evidence based on discrimination from centuries past to make her case for affirmative action in Supreme Court nominations in 2009--unless she's claiming that Thurgood Marshall and Clarence Thomas are both underqualified affirmative action judges.

738 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:27:19pm
739 MrC_5150  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:41:37pm

Hey, Rachel?!! How many black folk work as newscasters at MSNBC? I remember Lester Holt. Other than him I'm drawing a blank. I guess hiring sexually deviant white females (and Chrissy "the tingle" Mathews) is hip anymore.

740 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:47:27pm

Why do Pat Buchanan supporters always show up at the end of the thread, long after everyone else has moved on to more recent posts?

741 Flyers1974  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:57:02pm

re: #727 Iron Fist The issue can't strictly be examined through the lens of Republican v. Democrat. It's also conservative v. liberal. Take Brown v. Board of Education. The Chief Justice was Earl Warren, a Republican, nominated by a Republican president. Seemingly evidence in favor of those claiming the Republicans have been unfairly saddled with racism baggage. However, consider Earl Warren - is there any Supreme Court Justice more hated by conservatives or modern Republicans? Or loved by liberals and modern democrats? You may recall Eisenhower's famous quote about Warren being the biggest mistake he ever made.

742 Machalot  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 6:38:32pm

re: #740 Charles I don't know if that includes me, but I'm not a Buchanan supporter. I comment on a threat when at the time I happen read it. If you don't want people commenting "long after everyone else has moved on to more recent posts", that is, if you want to keep the number of discussions limited, why don't you just close the threads?

743 korla pundit  Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:57:05am
So you didn't watch it, but you still choose to defend Buchanan's white supremacist statements as "reasonable." Gotcha.

No way. I don't defend him, and I think he's a clown. A dangerous clown.

I'm just saying it would better demonstrate his racist stupidity if a better quote were used. The quote above seems to me to be a clumsy but obvious answer to a stupid and typical talking head question. Obviously most Supreme Court Justices were white men. All of them in fact until recent history. And for obvious reasons.

To say that it was basically because whites were running the show and that blacks and women were excluded is not really off the mark. In fact, it goes without saying.

Please don't paint me as a supporter of that jerkwad. That makes me ill.


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