Big Brother Amazon? Not Really

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You probably heard the reports that Amazon had unceremoniously deleted Kindle versions of George Orwell’s Animal Farm and 1984 from customers’ devices. But it turns out there’s a little more to the story: the company who sold the books through the Kindle store did not have the rights to publish them.

Late last week, most of the mainstream and tech press seized upon a story that Amazon had zapped copies of Orwell’s most famous novels from its Kindle store and from Kindles themselves everywhere, sending most folks into a tizzy over Amazon taking control over its Kindle content in, well, a 1984 kind of way.

But as a number of observers, including CNET News’ Peter Glaskowsky, pointed out, the reason Amazon yanked the books, or at least made them unavailable for purchase, is that 1984 in particular is, although in the public domain in countries such as Canada and Australia, still under copyright in the United States. Amazon addressed the situation late Friday, telling The New York Times via a spokesman that the Orwell books had been added to the Kindle store by a company, MobileReference, that didn’t have the rights to publish them.

“When we were notified of this by the rights holder, we removed illegal copies from our systems and from customers’ devices, and refunded customers,” said Amazon spokesman Drew Herdener to the Times.

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517 comments

1 zombie  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:11:06pm

Fact facts facts. They are so bothersome!

2 zombie  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:12:25pm
1984 in particular is, although in the public domain in countries such as Canada and Australia, still under copyright in the United States

Some copyrights are more equal than others!

3 davinvalkri  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:12:26pm

Doy…oops. Sorry to all of you who see Orwellian undertones wherever you look!

4 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:12:57pm

Amazon is refunding, and I bet they don’t get the money back from the mobile publisher. Although why they don’t have a “copyright” check before allowing self publishers to publish I don’t know…

5 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:13:02pm

The bigger story is still unanswered. Doe Amazon have the ability to erase a book already on your Kindle, without your intervention? Or, how much control from THIER side do they have to the INSIDE of your device?

I asked that question the other day, I’ve heard no answer. I suspect that if Amazon CANd o this, then I would not recommend this device to anyone.

Even Microsoft Update can be configured to ask you if you want to accept the intrusion from Microsoft.

6 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:13:49pm

Now, how can World Nut Daily and others make any money have any fun concocting anti-obammunist/media conspiracy theories when you keep debunking them? You’re such a killjoy, Charles.

7 rwmofo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:14:42pm

This doesn’t explain what happened to my other sock.

8 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:15:12pm

re: #5 Walter L. Newton

The bigger story is still unanswered. Doe Amazon have the ability to erase a book already on your Kindle, without your intervention? Or, how much control from THIER side do they have to the INSIDE of your device?

I asked that question the other day, I’ve heard no answer. I suspect that if Amazon CANd o this, then I would not recommend this device to anyone.

Even Microsoft Update can be configured to ask you if you want to accept the intrusion from Microsoft.

Normally, but there have been updates installed without the approval of the system owners. Microsoft does have the ability to force an update anyway.

9 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:15:18pm

Were people actually reading anything into this?

10 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:15:35pm

re: #7 rwmofo

This doesn’t explain what happened to my other sock.

Somebody’s using it as a sock puppet.

11 Pianobuff  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:16:18pm

Question for the legal experts. When this story first came out, I read an account that one of the “deletees” had downloaded the book for a school assignment.

This person over a period of weeks alleges to have written a bunch of annotations and attached them to his digital copy. When the copy was deleted so were his/her annotations.

Are the annotations considered the deletee’s private property or no?

12 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:16:45pm

re: #7 rwmofo

This doesn’t explain what happened to my other sock.

Why don’t they just sell socks in sets of three?

13 Jack Burton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:17:24pm

re: #1 zombie

Fact facts facts. They are so bothersome!

Your facts are harshing my drama queen conspiracy theory!

/

14 nikis-knight  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:17:35pm

They should have simply replaced the digital books with a single line that says “The book you are requesting was never written.” and watched heads explode.

/
Ironic that it would be these two, but that’s really a tangent to the more interesting issue.

15 KenJen  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:18:20pm

Wasn’t someone here on to this type of thing happening with Kindle months ago? Cato maybe? Can’t remember.

16 yochanan  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:18:30pm

re: #12 SanFranciscoZionist

if you need 3 socks and you can step on ‘shorty’ don’t expect a lot of sleep as the line at your door will be rather long.

17 Summer Seale  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:18:32pm

Yes, yes, that’s what they’re saying, but who really ordered those books in the first place, huh? Was it the same people who were supposedly shooting the film of the astronauts on the moon as well? And the same people who said that steel can melt?

Just…asking questions….

18 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:18:59pm

I figured it must be something like that, but it’s highly amusing that the affected books were by Orwell.

19 tradewind  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:19:29pm

Charles…
I haven’t purchased a Kindle yet..
Do you know,,,,,,can downloaded material be remotely removed without your say so?

20 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:19:59pm

re: #17 Summer

Yes, yes, that’s what they’re saying, but who really ordered those books in the first place, huh? Was it the same people who were supposedly shooting the film of the astronauts on the moon as well? And the same people who said that steel can melt?

Just…asking questions….

If the next book affected is “The Catcher in the Rye,” we’ll know it’s a conspiracy.

21 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:20:04pm

I read that it specifically states in the contract that user purchased material on the Kindle cannot be remotely deleted by Amazon, and that it still was.

This all will be an interesting legal case.

Either that, or Charles works for The Man.

22 nikis-knight  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:20:11pm

re: #19 tradewind

Charles…
I haven’t purchased a Kindle yet..
Do you know,,,,,,can downloaded material be remotely removed without your say so?

That would be the clear implications of this article.

23 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:20:46pm

re: #16 yochanan

if you need 3 socks and you can step on ‘shorty’ don’t expect a lot of sleep as the line at your door will be rather long.

Er, dude, I’m a chick. But thank you for that rather vivid image…

24 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:20:46pm

re: #22 nikis-knight

That would be the clear implications of this article.

heh….

25 vxbush  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:20:49pm

I’m aware of one student who had written all sorts of notes on his copy of 1984 on his Kindle and he apparently lost his notes when the book was deleted. That’s wrong. There should have been an option to save the notes but get rid of the copyrighted work.

26 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:21:17pm

re: #5 Walter L. Newton

Why not ask Amazon?

27 Shr_Nfr  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:21:22pm

It still points out a fatal flaw in the Kindle imo. Further, how long are they going to carry the distribution via the Kindle forward? Ever try and read a 7 track 200 BPI tape lateley? Thanks but no thanks. Woodware is more permanent. Let us say for the sake of argument that Amazon is the next GM and goes bust. Your library of Kindle books may too.

28 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:21:23pm

re: #8 Kosh’s Shadow

Normally, but there have been updates installed without the approval of the system owners. Microsoft does have the ability to force an update anyway.

Never heard of that. I would need some sort of proof of that.

29 tradewind  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:21:44pm

Anyone been burned after downloading Fahrenheit 457?

30 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:21:46pm

re: #5 Walter L. Newton

The bigger story is still unanswered. Doe Amazon have the ability to erase a book already on your Kindle, without your intervention? Or, how much control from THIER side do they have to the INSIDE of your device?

I asked that question the other day, I’ve heard no answer. I suspect that if Amazon CANd o this, then I would not recommend this device to anyone.

Even Microsoft Update can be configured to ask you if you want to accept the intrusion from Microsoft.

Amazing what people will tolerate.

As long as it’s not the government doing the data mining, etc, it’s all right.

31 Shr_Nfr  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:22:03pm

re: #20 doppelganglander
A wry remark to make I must admit.

32 Baier  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:22:15pm
“When we were notified of this by the rights holder, we removed illegal copies from our systems and from customers’ devices, and refunded customers,” said Amazon spokesman Drew Herdener to the Times.

That seems responsible to me.

33 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:22:23pm

re: #25 vxbush

I’m aware of one student who had written all sorts of notes on his copy of 1984 on his Kindle and he apparently lost his notes when the book was deleted. That’s wrong. There should have been an option to save the notes but get rid of the copyrighted work.

The notes feature is one of the primary attractions of the Kindle for me. I can’t bear to mark up a book, even a cheap one. This would be a good alternative to mass quantities of Post-It note flags. I wonder if Amazon can recover this poor guy’s notes.

34 tradewind  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:22:55pm

re: #8 Kosh’s Shadow

Even if the CPU administrator has ’ custom install ’ checked for updates?
Damn, so glad I went to a mac…….

35 badger1970  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:22:58pm

Book? What book? Do you trust me, Kindle, or your lying eyes? /

What a strange world we live in when a book can go poof. At least it wasn’t using a satellite using a high powered laser to zap illicit copyrighted material.

36 Shr_Nfr  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:23:18pm

re: #29 tradewind

I was moore or less burned by Fahrenheit 911.

37 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:23:18pm

re: #30 Ben Hur

Amazing what people will tolerate.

As long as it’s not the government doing the data mining, etc, it’s all right.

I don’t even trust my mouse…the Forces of Evil are everywhere

38 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:23:42pm

Oh, and I saw that Halliburton BEAT expectations today.

1. The One didn’t fire and dismantle Halliburton?!?
2. Nice to know that now that Dick isn’t the Veep, he’s making money from the Obama war machine.

39 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:23:46pm

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist

Er, dude, I’m a chick. But thank you for that rather vivid image…

Mostly because you know precisely where to apply the mind-floss?

40 nikis-knight  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:24:09pm

re: #35 badger1970

Book? What book? Do you trust me, Kindle, or your lying eyes? /

What a strange world we live in when a book can go poof. At least it wasn’t using a satellite using a high powered laser to zap illicit copyrighted material.

Well, it is wireless.

41 callahan23  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:24:27pm

Conspiracy monger:
Factses they burns us!!! AAAHHHAHHHHAHHHH

42 Jack Burton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:24:32pm

re: #21 Ben Hur

Either that, or Charles works for The Man.

That’s The Man® to you and I.

43 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:24:44pm

re: #28 Walter L. Newton

Never heard of that. I would need some sort of proof of that.

It was about 2 years ago, and there were articles in Computerworld about it. People had set their systems to manually install updates, but still found them rebooted in the morning “after installing an important update”. Eventually Microsoft admitted it

44 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:24:45pm

re: #26 Dianna

Why not ask Amazon?

I was being rhetorical. They can get into your Kindle and recall the book.

45 yochanan  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:24:53pm

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist

lol

46 badger1970  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:25:42pm

re: #40 nikis-knight

I was picturing a more destructive version of the Alan Parson’s Project from Austin Powers.

47 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:25:45pm

re: #33 doppelganglander

The notes feature is one of the primary attractions of the Kindle for me. I can’t bear to mark up a book, even a cheap one. This would be a good alternative to mass quantities of Post-It note flags. I wonder if Amazon can recover this poor guy’s notes.

I’d settle for a million and all the tuition I could ever use

48 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:25:54pm

re: #43 Kosh’s Shadow

It was about 2 years ago, and there were articles in Computerworld about it. People had set their systems to manually install updates, but still found them rebooted in the morning “after installing an important update”. Eventually Microsoft admitted it

That’s not what I was referencing. Are they still doing it? I don’t think so. I know about that dust up, and as far as I know, they changed their policies.

49 turn  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:26:02pm

In the book 1984 the government started fires and destroyed books as a method of control. Today Amazon can do that electronically but they still need to use Kindleing. Have a great evening all, time to go walk the lab along the American.

50 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:26:06pm

re: #29 tradewind

Anyone been burned after downloading Fahrenheit 457?

Ahem?

Fahrenheit 451.

51 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:26:17pm

re: #34 tradewind

Even if the CPU administrator has ’ custom install ’ checked for updates?
Damn, so glad I went to a mac…….

If the systems go through a company’s update server, then the update server’s administrator has control, because those systems just don’t see the update. But if the admin let you control your updates, then pushed this one to his server, you’d get it even if you told it to wait.

52 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:26:36pm

re: #49 turn

In the book 1984 the government started fires and destroyed books as a method of control. Today Amazon can do that electronically but they still need to use Kindleing. Have a great evening all, time to go walk the lab along the American.

That was Farenhiet 411 (sp)

53 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:27:02pm

Saudi princess given asylum in UK over fears she faces execution for having illegitimate child with British loverYour text to link…


A wealthy Saudi Arabian princess has been given asylum because she had an illegitimate child by a British man.
The woman claimed that if she returned home she would face being stoned to death for adultery.

The Daily Mail understands that the princess’s initial claim for asylum was rejected by Britain’s Asylum and Immigration Tribunal, because of inconsistencies in her account, and fears she was exaggerating the dangers.
On appeal, however, she was given permanent leave to remain in Britain.

Last night the Home Office refused to comment on the case, saying it would not discuss an individual decision.

Right. Because Saudi treatment of women is one big secret, that know one really knows about, so it was hard to say if she was exaggerating.

I mean, how would any division of the Home Office know such a thing?

54 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:27:25pm

re: #49 turn

In the book 1984 the government started fires and destroyed books as a method of control. Today Amazon can do that electronically but they still need to use Kindleing. Have a great evening all, time to go walk the lab along the American.

wrong book

55 Summer Seale  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:27:28pm

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist

Er, dude, I’m a chick. But thank you for that rather vivid image…

I’ve had people assume I’m a guy too even with my name being “Summer”….

Makes me laugh so hard every time =)

56 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:28:08pm

re: #5 Walter L. Newton

The bigger story is still unanswered. Doe Amazon have the ability to erase a book already on your Kindle, without your intervention? Or, how much control from THIER side do they have to the INSIDE of your device?

I asked that question the other day, I’ve heard no answer. I suspect that if Amazon CANd o this, then I would not recommend this device to anyone.

Even Microsoft Update can be configured to ask you if you want to accept the intrusion from Microsoft.

Actually since they now allow you to download the .pdf file to your PC for viewing, a simple move and rename of the file would let you keep it even if they sent out the “erase” command.

57 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:28:11pm

re: #44 Walter L. Newton

I was being rhetorical. They can get into your Kindle and recall the book.

They also know what you are reading.

Remember, that’s the single most biggest violation of human rights imaginable.

58 DaddyG  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:28:36pm

Ah Hah! Big Brother has a Bigger Brother. /

59 bnichols10  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:29:14pm

re: #22 nikis-knight

I think there is a policy that any book you purchased can be substituted for either ‘The Audacity of Hope’ or ‘Dreams from my Father’ at any time.

It was passed in the stimulus bill, page 11,421, paragraph 2

60 turn  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:29:21pm

re: #52 Walter L. Newton

re: #54 albusteve

I know, but how the hell would you guys have tried to tie these two things together to make a lousy pun? ha, now really gone.

61 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:29:52pm

re: #59 bnichols10

I think there is a policy that any book you purchased can be substituted for either ‘The Audacity of Hope’ or ‘Dreams from my Father’ at any time.

It was passed in the stimulus bill, page 11,421, paragraph 2

More likely that people will be forced to have it on there.

62 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:30:10pm

re: #52 Walter L. Newton

That was Farenhiet 411 (sp)

Is there some reason no one remembers the ignition point of paper?

Fahrenheit 451. Ray Bradbury.

63 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:30:31pm

re: #57 Ben Hur

They also know what you are reading.

Remember, that’s the single most biggest violation of human rights imaginable.

Well, it doesn’t seem that too many people are worried about it, or care about it. Fine, let them have their Kindles, or any device that can connect them to an outside source that can get into your toy without your permission.

Even if the purchase license agreement allow it, I don’t care, I’ll let as many people as I can know what Amazon can and can’t do.

Fuck em’.

64 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:31:07pm

re: #63 Walter L. Newton

Well, it doesn’t seem that too many people are worried about it, or care about it. Fine, let them have their Kindles, or any device that can connect them to an outside source that can get into your toy without your permission.

Even if the purchase license agreement allow it, I don’t care, I’ll let as many people as I can know what Amazon can and can’t do.

Fuck em’.


They only care about it when you’re trying to catch a terrorist, remember?

65 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:31:13pm

re: #63 Walter L. Newton

Well, it doesn’t seem that too many people are worried about it, or care about it. Fine, let them have their Kindles, or any device that can connect them to an outside source that can get into your toy without your permission.

Even if the purchase license agreement allow it, I don’t care, I’ll let as many people as I can know what Amazon can and can’t do.

Fuck em’.

extremist

66 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:31:32pm

re: #62 Dianna

Is there some reason no one remembers the ignition point of paper?

Fahrenheit 451. Ray Bradbury.

My mistake. Probably because some fat idiot made a stupid movie with that name. Shows you what smart marketing can do.

67 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:31:59pm

re: #62 Dianna

Is there some reason no one remembers the ignition point of paper?

Fahrenheit 451. Ray Bradbury.

That’s for books back then, now that publisher’s are using thinner crappier paper Walter’s probably more correct than Bradbury :)

68 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:32:08pm

re: #62 Dianna

Is there some reason no one remembers the ignition point of paper?

Fahrenheit 451. Ray Bradbury.

There’s a joint joke in there somewhere, I just can’t get it out.

69 yochanan  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:32:12pm

re: #55 Summer

it was the third sock et al. anyway what would you need a third sock for?

70 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:32:14pm

re: #63 Walter L. Newton

I understand your irritation. But they’re 1) trying to avoid violating copyright and 2) refunding the customer’s money.

71 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:32:17pm

re: #65 albusteve

extremist

Yea, I know, I may ice some Kindle sales.

72 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:32:17pm

re: #66 Walter L. Newton

My mistake. Probably because some fat idiot made a stupid movie with that name. Shows you what smart marketing can do.

you’ve been botted

73 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:32:33pm

I posted this story a couple days ago……….so it’s true…..no one pays attention to me……….sniff……….

/it’s not Always about me…………

74 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:32:40pm

Later.

75 badger1970  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:32:45pm

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

MS has done it to me a few times on Black Tuesdays. I have it set to manual install. A few times in the morning my system was rebooted with a nice little green icon in systray saying “Your system has been updated with the latest…..”

Another MS annoyance is the request to reboot after an update has been installed. I figured once I told it to install and don’t reboot, the pop up will go away, but no, MS wants me to do it the hard way. Frell this Mr. Gates your Hiberian drat!

76 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:32:46pm

/publishers pimf and all that

77 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:32:47pm

re: #61 Ben Hur

More likely that people will be forced to have it on there.

Kindles will now come preloaded with those two, as well as the texts of Obama’s address to the DNC in 2004, his race speech, and his Cairo speech.

78 Ben Hur  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:32:47pm

ish.

79 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:33:01pm

re: #38 Ben Hur

Nice to know that now that Dick isn’t the Veep, he’s making money from the Obama war machine.

Somewhere, this just happened.

80 DaddyG  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:33:17pm

Fahrenheit 411 is the flash point of movie film covered in hamburger grease isn’t it? /

81 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:33:19pm

re: #74 Ben Hur

Later.

Bye Ben…Have a wonderful evening

82 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:33:47pm

re: #70 Dianna

I understand your irritation. But they’re 1) trying to avoid violating copyright and 2) refunding the customer’s money.

Sorry, as I said above, I don’t care. And I suspect that there is something in the license agreement with the purchase of the book, or in the purchase agreement of the Kindle itself, that gives them (or you gave them) permission to do that, but it doesn’t matter.

I don’t like it, and I will be sure to point this “feature” out to everyone I can. Here and otherwise.

83 medaura18586  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:33:57pm

Could Amazon track, access, and delete materials in our Kindles that have NOT been bought through Amazon? How about my private documents? Could it screen those for copyright infringements?

84 dwells38  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:34:04pm

Besides I just ran a search on their website and they still offer dozens of books for sale by George Orwell including Animal Farm and 1984.

85 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:35:17pm

re: #75 badger1970

MS has done it to me a few times on Black Tuesdays. I have it set to manual install. A few times in the morning my system was rebooted with a nice little green icon in systray saying “Your system has been updated with the latest…..”

Another MS annoyance is the request to reboot after an update has been installed. I figured once I told it to install and don’t reboot, the pop up will go away, but no, MS wants me to do it the hard way. Frell this Mr. Gates your Hiberian drat!

I have NEVER had it happen to me. I have always had it set on manual, I look over the list using custom install, and I look up the “k” numbers before I allow the install, so I know what the update is for.

86 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:36:16pm

BBIAB

87 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:36:33pm

re: #82 Walter L. Newton

Sorry, as I said above, I don’t care. And I suspect that there is something in the license agreement with the purchase of the book, or in the purchase agreement of the Kindle itself, that gives them (or you gave them) permission to do that, but it doesn’t matter.

I don’t like it, and I will be sure to point this “feature” out to everyone I can. Here and otherwise.

the only chips in my Archie comics are from potatoes

88 Summer Seale  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:36:54pm

re: #69 yochanan

it was the third sock et al. anyway what would you need a third sock for?

If you have to ask, you can’t afford it… =)

Just teasing. I didn’t see the whole third sock thing, just her comment really. Imma get to bed tho. Waking up in 6 hours and flying all day tomorrow so I better get my rest now. =)

89 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:36:56pm

re: #38 Ben Hur

Oh, and I saw that Halliburton BEAT expectations today.

1. The One didn’t fire and dismantle Halliburton?!?
2. Nice to know that now that Dick isn’t the Veep, he’s making money from the Obama war machine.

It would be totally worth signing up for an account at both DU and DK just to post that over there.

90 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:37:34pm

re: #83 medaura18586

Could Amazon track, access, and delete materials in our Kindles that have NOT been bought through Amazon? How about my private documents? Could it screen those for copyright infringements?

“Could” is a broad term. It’s technically feasible, the right question I think is “Do They?” I doubt that they do.

91 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:38:05pm

re: #89 SixDegrees

It would be totally worth signing up for an account at both DU and DK just to post that over there.

It would be a fleeting pleasure, since you’d be deleted immediately.

92 DaddyG  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:38:34pm

re: #89 SixDegrees

It would be totally worth signing up for an account at both DU and DK just to post that over there.

Vengance is the way to the dark side it is.

93 Kragar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:39:48pm

re: #92 DaddyG

Vengance is the way to the dark side it is.

Are you absolutely sure about that?

94 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:39:51pm

re: #92 DaddyG

Vengance is the way to the dark side it is.

“It felt as though a million moonbats all cried out in terror, and then fell silent.”

95 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:40:42pm

re: #75 badger1970

MS has done it to me a few times on Black Tuesdays. I have it set to manual install. A few times in the morning my system was rebooted with a nice little green icon in systray saying “Your system has been updated with the latest…..”

Another MS annoyance is the request to reboot after an update has been installed. I figured once I told it to install and don’t reboot, the pop up will go away, but no, MS wants me to do it the hard way. Frell this Mr. Gates your Hiberian drat!

Worse, while with a Mac, the “reboot” icon will just bounce around in the dock as long as you ignore it, Microsoft pops up a “Reboot now/Reboot later” dialog every few minutes. If you press the wrong key just as it pops up, your system gets rebooted anyway.

96 badger1970  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:41:17pm

re: #85 Walter L. Newton

I can double check my settings but I’m sure it rebooted with out my permission. But back to your point where a product bought “off the shelf” can be a gateway into privacy is scary.

97 gymmom  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:41:36pm

re: #89 SixDegrees

It would be totally worth signing up for an account at both DU and DK just to post that over there.

I think Cheney gave up all his stock in Haliburton when he became Veep. IIRC, about 1/3rd of his wealth. (8 Million $ worth) But democrats don’t need to know that.

98 medaura18586  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:42:36pm

re: #90 Thanos

“Could” is a broad term. It’s technically feasible, the right question I think is “Do They?” I doubt that they do.

I’m trying to establish how paranoid I should be about the privacy of my personal documents. I’m sure Amazon has mass-scale algorithms to recall any specific material distributed through its platform. So the deletion of all copies of this unauthorized Orwell book, I bet was executed by pressing a single button. In order to check the content of my personal documents (in my Kindle) though, Amazon would have to selectively target ME.

Why would it do that? So yes, I’m deciding to chill.

99 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:42:38pm

Question:

Let’s say you walk into a book store and buy an unauthorized copy of 1984 that the store is carrying, ignorant of the unauthorized status of the publication. When the store finds out that they’re selling an unauthorized copy, they can pull it from their shelves. But should they then be able to confiscate the copy you purchased?

100 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:43:02pm

re: #85 Walter L. Newton

I have NEVER had it happen to me. I have always had it set on manual, I look over the list using custom install, and I look up the “k” numbers before I allow the install, so I know what the update is for.

I think the problem is when you let it download but not install, it will install anyway, but if you stop it from downloading, it won’t.

My big annoyance right now is that IE8 constantly shows up as an important update, and last time I tried to use it (I installed it on an older system that I don’t use much) it crashed on one of the sites I was concerned about.

101 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:43:29pm

The worst offender I can remember in this was Sony with their secret rootkit for DRM content. It’s why I don’t buy Sony anymore.

102 jackflash  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:43:29pm

This points out the absurdity of our copyright laws. Why is 1984, published in 1948, still under copyright?? 61 years is an outrageous amout of time to allow any work to be under monopoly ownership. I understand all those arguments saying that we need such laws to encourage creativity and innovation, and I agree. But eighteen years?? (I forget the difference in length of coverage between copyrights and patents - maybe copyrights are less than 18, but not much.)

Certainly 5 years is more than enough to get any author some monopoly profits to reward his labor and genius. Patents are similarly out of control. This system needs to be reconsidered, in my opinion.

JF

103 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:43:34pm

re: #92 DaddyG

Vengance is the way to the dark side it is.

But so sweet

104 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:44:44pm

Well, here’s hoping that the rights owners will allow the book to be published for the Kindle.

105 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:44:54pm

re: #101 Thanos

The worst offender I can remember in this was Sony with their secret rootkit for DRM content. It’s why I don’t buy Sony anymore.

You mean this one?

106 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:45:10pm

re: #98 medaura18586

Any idea if these guys are friends of Robert Spencer?
Milan And Sredoje Lukic, Bosnian Serbs, Convicted Of Burning Over 100 Muslims Alive

107 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:45:45pm

re: #102 jackflash

This points out the absurdity of our copyright laws. Why is 1984, published in 1948, still under copyright?? 61 years is an outrageous amout of time to allow any work to be under monopoly ownership. I understand all those arguments saying that we need such laws to encourage creativity and innovation, and I agree. But eighteen years?? (I forget the difference in length of coverage between copyrights and patents - maybe copyrights are less than 18, but not much.)

Certainly 5 years is more than enough to get any author some monopoly profits to reward his labor and genius. Patents are similarly out of control. This system needs to be reconsidered, in my opinion.

JF

The extensions were lobbied through congress by the “Mickey Mafia”.

108 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:46:00pm

re: #102 jackflash

This points out the absurdity of our copyright laws. Why is 1984, published in 1948, still under copyright?? 61 years is an outrageous amout of time to allow any work to be under monopoly ownership. I understand all those arguments saying that we need such laws to encourage creativity and innovation, and I agree. But eighteen years?? (I forget the difference in length of coverage between copyrights and patents - maybe copyrights are less than 18, but not much.)

Certainly 5 years is more than enough to get any author some monopoly profits to reward his labor and genius. Patents are similarly out of control. This system needs to be reconsidered, in my opinion.

JF

18 years is a nice round number. It’s the number of years at which my kids can legally go tell me to F myself. Not if they still want to eat mind you, but theoretically?

109 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:46:09pm

re: #62 Dianna

Is there some reason no one remembers the ignition point of paper?

Fahrenheit 451. Ray Bradbury.

That’s almost 233 Celcius.

110 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:46:11pm

re: #97 gymmom

I think Cheney gave up all his stock in Haliburton when he became Veep. IIRC, about 1/3rd of his wealth. (8 Million $ worth) But democrats don’t need to know that.

I’ve also read that he donated most of his VP salary to charity.

111 callahan23  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:46:13pm

re: #103 Nevergiveup

But so sweet

“Revenge is a dish best served cold.” Old Klingon Proverb.

112 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:46:24pm

re: #102 jackflash

This points out the absurdity of our copyright laws. Why is 1984, published in 1948, still under copyright?? 61 years is an outrageous amout of time to allow any work to be under monopoly ownership. I understand all those arguments saying that we need such laws to encourage creativity and innovation, and I agree. But eighteen years?? (I forget the difference in length of coverage between copyrights and patents - maybe copyrights are less than 18, but not much.)

Certainly 5 years is more than enough to get any author some monopoly profits to reward his labor and genius. Patents are similarly out of control. This system needs to be reconsidered, in my opinion.

JF

You clearly are not a writer, or anyone else who cares about copyright.

113 Last Mohican  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:46:33pm

Is some conspiracy theorist out there actually trying to suggest that the Orwell “recall” is some sort of evil thought policing being perpetrated by the totalitarian state?

Seriously, paranoid conspiracy theorizing has advanced way, way beyond simple stuff like that. Consider, for example, these comments that I found on infowars today, in a thread about evil Israeli agents posing as ordinary people while posting blog comments:

WHY do you jerks think that Israel is ALWAYS demonized here. It is JUST like the NWO does! Who do these people work for? What NWO agency do YOU drubs work for, the CIA, the NSA, the Vatican?

Too bad all the Zionists don’t realize that they’re just slaves of the vatican who is under the BLACK POPE who is under SATAN

Go to illuminati-news.com. Alex Jones works for the Jesuits! They hired him to tell the truth about what the NWO is doing but switch the blame from the Vatican to the innocent Jews. God bless Israel. The pope is the antichrist

The Pope isn’t the Antichrist, he’s a Antichrist. The Bible clearly states that the man of sin will be Lucifer himself. True Israel is not made up of the descendants of Jacob but all those who follow Jesus Christ. The Jews as a distinctive people lost the promises of YHWY because they broke the Bilateral covenant. You’ve been duped by Scofieldian propaganda which teaches that the descendants of Jacob are Israel when God tells us differently.

the State of ‘Israel’ is a purely NWO creation from the outset, there can be no denial of it and they wish it to be the hub of their One World Government with their self-imposed ‘messiah’ at the helm. the State of Israel has to go.

Isreal will come with red dashed lines underneath. Israel will get you the spelling bee award. All I know about the smurfs is that it was sexually creepy, child mind-warping filth.

You sound upset. Please consider a regular regimen of vitamin B and daily exercise.

114 avanti  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:46:58pm

OT, our “second son”, a midshipman we sponsored is now a Ensign in flight school. He’s going to train to fly E2’s and my wife has but one question, is that a safer billet then say jets ? I did look up the plane, early warning radar, often off carriers.

115 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:47:44pm

re: #107 Thanos

The extensions were lobbied through congress by the “Mickey Mafia”.

That’s right; Disney would like to see copyrights extended into perpetuity. Ironic, since some of their older stuff was apparently based on materials that had moved into the public domain.

116 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:48:10pm

re: #114 avanti

OT, our “second son”, a midshipman we sponsored is now a Ensign in flight school. He’s going to train to fly E2’s and my wife has but one question, is that a safer billet then say jets ? I did look up the plane, early warning radar, often off carriers.

Kinda, other than the fact that it is defenseless?

117 Yankee Zionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:48:16pm

This episode demonstrates that Amazon can delete, or even alter products people have already purchased in ways that physical books cannot be manipulated.

118 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:48:35pm

re: #105 victor_yugo

Oh, and don’t forget that McAfee and Symantec quietly looked the other way on that Sony rootkit, even though its methods were basically the same as other malware rootkits.

Any system that needs an anti-virus before it even leaves the factory is, by definition, susceptible to corporate interests bribing the anti-virus makers.

119 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:48:35pm

re: #114 avanti

OT, our “second son”, a midshipman we sponsored is now a Ensign in flight school. He’s going to train to fly E2’s and my wife has but one question, is that a safer billet then say jets ? I did look up the plane, early warning radar, often off carriers.

Um, what would you shoot first?

120 debutaunt  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:48:45pm

re: #111 callahan23

“Revenge is a dish best served cold.” Old Klingon Proverb.

Revenge is best served with cold cuts.
-Tony Soprano

121 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:48:50pm

re: #114 avanti

OT, our “second son”, a midshipman we sponsored is now a Ensign in flight school. He’s going to train to fly E2’s and my wife has but one question, is that a safer billet then say jets ? I did look up the plane, early warning radar, often off carriers.

The E-2s are quite old, but I think they have a decent safety record.

122 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:48:56pm

re: #102 jackflash

This points out the absurdity of our copyright laws. Why is 1984, published in 1948, still under copyright?? 61 years is an outrageous amout of time to allow any work to be under monopoly ownership. I understand all those arguments saying that we need such laws to encourage creativity and innovation, and I agree. But eighteen years?? (I forget the difference in length of coverage between copyrights and patents - maybe copyrights are less than 18, but not much.)

Certainly 5 years is more than enough to get any author some monopoly profits to reward his labor and genius. Patents are similarly out of control. This system needs to be reconsidered, in my opinion.

JF

If I build a house, it is ridiculous for me to expect it to belong to me and my heirs for more than sixty years?

123 avanti  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:49:02pm

re: #112 Dianna

You clearly are not a writer, or anyone else who cares about copyright.

I think 5 years would have cost the POTUS a few million since he didn’t sell many books until he became known.

124 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:49:38pm

re: #116 Nevergiveup

Kinda, other than the fact that it is defenseless?

I’d shoot the early warning radar plane first, particularly if it were defenseless. I’m big on denying my opponent as much information as I can.

125 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:49:52pm

re: #102 jackflash

This points out the absurdity of our copyright laws. Why is 1984, published in 1948, still under copyright?? 61 years is an outrageous amout of time to allow any work to be under monopoly ownership. I understand all those arguments saying that we need such laws to encourage creativity and innovation, and I agree. But eighteen years?? (I forget the difference in length of coverage between copyrights and patents - maybe copyrights are less than 18, but not much.)

Certainly 5 years is more than enough to get any author some monopoly profits to reward his labor and genius. Patents are similarly out of control. This system needs to be reconsidered, in my opinion.

JF

Copyright law in the US is a mess - to put it mildly. It was totally muddled by the Millenium Copyright Act, or whatever it’s called, which was written with enormous input from media lobbying groups. Basically, copyrights are now pretty much forever; a corporate entity can keep updating copyrights they hold for decades. There may be a limit of a century or so; the original goal was to keep the old definition - copyrights were active for the lifetime of the work’s creator plus 20(?) years - and make “lifetime” applicable to “the existence of the corporate entity holding the copyright.” That didn’t quite fly, but the length is now enormously extended.

There are also a number of bizarre irregularities that arise with older works, as some works copyrighted under older implementations got grandfathered in, others had already entered the public domain, and what not. Being a copyright lawyer these days is an exercise in frustration and futility.

Patents are simple. 20 years worth of protection from the date they’re granted, with a few relatively minor exceptions.

126 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:49:54pm

re: #121 Ward Cleaver

The E-2s are quite old, but I think they have a decent safety record.

With this President, they are gonna have to last alot longer I fear

127 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:49:55pm

re: #114 avanti

OT, our “second son”, a midshipman we sponsored is now a Ensign in flight school. He’s going to train to fly E2’s and my wife has but one question, is that a safer billet then say jets ? I did look up the plane, early warning radar, often off carriers.

Congrads to you and him…That is exciting news! keep us posted

128 avanti  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:50:13pm

re: #119 Dianna

Um, what would you shoot first?

I don’t think I’ll pass that on, at least not as bluntly, but thanks.

129 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:50:30pm

re: #106 Killgore Trout

Any idea if these guys are friends of Robert Spencer?
Milan And Sredoje Lukic, Bosnian Serbs, Convicted Of Burning Over 100 Muslims Alive

Oy, gottenyu.

130 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:50:35pm

re: #123 avanti

I think 5 years would have cost the POTUS a few million since he didn’t sell many books until he became known.

Definite point!

And one must ask, who would get the money, if not the holder of the copyright?

131 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:51:01pm

re: #124 Dianna

I’d shoot the early warning radar plane first, particularly if it were defenseless. I’m big on denying my opponent as much information as I can.

Well that was a joke mostly. The fighters that the E-2 directs to the action tend to take care of “Mom”.

132 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:51:06pm

re: #128 avanti

I don’t think I’ll pass that on, at least not as bluntly, but thanks.

Sorry. I’m not terribly diplomatic.

133 Last Mohican  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:51:07pm

re: #114 avanti

Congratulations! I suppose landing anything airborne on a carrier deck isn’t the safest job in the world, but I’m sure the Navy will teach him everything he needs to know.

I recently read this article about flying E-2’s after I discovered this music video made by the members of an E-2 squadron while deployed on the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln.

134 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:51:25pm

re: #106 Killgore Trout

Any idea if these guys are friends of Robert Spencer?
Milan And Sredoje Lukic, Bosnian Serbs, Convicted Of Burning Over 100 Muslims Alive

Try Google.

135 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:51:29pm

re: #125 SixDegrees

Copyright law in the US is a mess - to put it mildly. It was totally muddled by the Millenium Copyright Act, or whatever it’s called, which was written with enormous input from media lobbying groups. Basically, copyrights are now pretty much forever; a corporate entity can keep updating copyrights they hold for decades. There may be a limit of a century or so; the original goal was to keep the old definition - copyrights were active for the lifetime of the work’s creator plus 20(?) years - and make “lifetime” applicable to “the existence of the corporate entity holding the copyright.” That didn’t quite fly, but the length is now enormously extended.

There are also a number of bizarre irregularities that arise with older works, as some works copyrighted under older implementations got grandfathered in, others had already entered the public domain, and what not. Being a copyright lawyer these days is an exercise in frustration and futility.

Patents are simple. 20 years worth of protection from the date they’re granted, with a few relatively minor exceptions.

Yes, the Mickey Mafia put the largest muscle into this effort

136 Kragar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:51:50pm

re: #120 debutaunt

Revenge is best served with cold cuts.
-Tony Soprano

“Revenge is a dish best served with mayonnaise and those little cheesy things on sticks.”
- Osric the Loopy, planetary governor of Corania (appointed 756 M41, removed from office by the Officio Assassinorum 764 M41)

137 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:52:00pm

re: #126 Nevergiveup

With this President, they are gonna have to last alot longer I fear

Perfect sub hunters..Drop the Sonar buoys in tight patterns…

138 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:52:47pm

re: #118 victor_yugo

Oh, and don’t forget that McAfee and Symantec quietly looked the other way on that Sony rootkit, even though its methods were basically the same as other malware rootkits.

Any system that needs an anti-virus before it even leaves the factory is, by definition, susceptible to corporate interests bribing the anti-virus makers.

Did AVG find it? I avoid Symantec and McAfee unless it comes preinstalled, in which case I keep it until the subscription runs out and then install AVG.

139 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:52:54pm

re: #112 Dianna

You clearly are not a writer, or anyone else who cares about copyright.

If I choose to share my works freely, that is my choice, no matter what Harlan Ellison would force me to do, and no matter how many names he would call me to accomplish it.

140 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:53:22pm

re: #102 jackflash

This points out the absurdity of our copyright laws. Why is 1984, published in 1948, still under copyright?? 61 years is an outrageous amout of time to allow any work to be under monopoly ownership. I understand all those arguments saying that we need such laws to encourage creativity and innovation, and I agree. But eighteen years?? (I forget the difference in length of coverage between copyrights and patents - maybe copyrights are less than 18, but not much.)

Certainly 5 years is more than enough to get any author some monopoly profits to reward his labor and genius. Patents are similarly out of control. This system needs to be reconsidered, in my opinion.

JF

I’m sure if buzzsawmonkey were here, he could give you a very thorough and eloquent explanation. I will say that a copyright or a patent is an income-producing asset; in some cases, it’s the only asset an individual may be able to leave to his heirs. Martin Luther King, Jr. comes to mind - his heirs are extremely vigilant about protecting the copyright on his works. If he’d left a trust fund, would you think it should be confiscated after 18 years?

141 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:53:34pm

re: #135 Thanos

Yes, the Mickey Mafia put the largest muscle into this effort

Yes; Disney had a huge role in getting these new laws put in place, in order to retain control of their films virtually forever.

142 yochanan  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:54:14pm

re: #114 avanti

mazel tov.

143 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:54:49pm

re: #139 victor_yugo

If I choose to share my works freely, that is my choice, no matter what Harlan Ellison would force me to do, and no matter how many names he would call me to accomplish it.

That is your perfect right. However, if you want to make a living as a writer, or even just afford a nice Kimber for your significant other, it is nice to think that copyright keeps people from just stealing your work.

144 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:54:50pm

re: #114 avanti

OT, our “second son”, a midshipman we sponsored is now a Ensign in flight school. He’s going to train to fly E2’s and my wife has but one question, is that a safer billet then say jets ? I did look up the plane, early warning radar, often off carriers.

According to Wiki, the E-2 entered service in 1964.

145 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:54:52pm

Gingrich Criticizes Defense Policies, Says Country Is on ‘Edge of Catastrophe’
In a speech full of dire scenarios and gloomy predictions, the former House speaker argues that no price is too high for the federal government to pay when it comes to shoring up national security.

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

So get back in the fight and stop sitting on the sidelines

146 Stuart Leviton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:55:02pm

re: #33 doppelganglander

The notes feature is one of the primary attractions of the Kindle for me. I can’t bear to mark up a book, even a cheap one. This would be a good alternative to mass quantities of Post-It note flags. I wonder if Amazon can recover this poor guy’s notes.


In theory recovering the student’s notes should be possible. Deletion is like losing one’s Rolodex. All the telephones of your friends still exist, but you no longer know how to reach them. Similarly with deletion, the book is still on the computer; it’s just that the book’s entry in the Rolodex has been scrambled.

//At least this is how it would work in the old days. For the same reason, government security agencies are able to find all sorts of goodies on peoples computers — porn, incriminating letters and so forth — because deletion only modifies the “Rolodex”. I would be curious to learn of newer strategies for deleting info on a computer.

147 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:55:29pm

OT but still on the theme of publishing, well, more like NOT publishing. This came across my desk this morning. The sad truth about kids in Gaza.

148 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:55:50pm

re: #102 jackflash

This points out the absurdity of our copyright laws. Why is 1984, published in 1948, still under copyright?? 61 years is an outrageous amout of time to allow any work to be under monopoly ownership. I understand all those arguments saying that we need such laws to encourage creativity and innovation, and I agree. But eighteen years?? (I forget the difference in length of coverage between copyrights and patents - maybe copyrights are less than 18, but not much.)

Certainly 5 years is more than enough to get any author some monopoly profits to reward his labor and genius. Patents are similarly out of control. This system needs to be reconsidered, in my opinion.

JF

Are you crazy? You create something, all your own, and after, or let’s say, 18 years, you want ANYONE to be able to make money off of your creation, to the point that you can’t even share in a meaningful amount of the profits of your work?

In that case, do something creative and let me know what it is. I’m going to have my heirs all over your estate in 18 years. Whoopee!

149 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:56:33pm

re: #141 SixDegrees

Yes; Disney had a huge role in getting these new laws put in place, in order to retain control of their films virtually forever.

Once again, why is it unreasonable for a company to retain control of material they own? No one’s going to starve over it, and it, er, belongs to them.

150 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:56:43pm
151 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:56:59pm

Speaking of “1984” ( I read the novel years ago). Why would you read it now when you can go to Britain and experience the real thing, well, almost.

/

152 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:57:08pm

re: #148 Walter L. Newton

Well said.

153 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:57:10pm

re: #147 A Kiwi Infidel

OT but still on the theme of publishing, well, more like NOT publishing. This came across my desk this morning. The sad truth about kids in Gaza.

If the writer would run spell-check, I’d be more impressed.

154 Killian Bundy  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:57:15pm

re: #114 avanti

OT, our “second son”, a midshipman we sponsored is now a Ensign in flight school. He’s going to train to fly E2’s and my wife has but one question, is that a safer billet then say jets ? I did look up the plane, early warning radar, often off carriers.

/they make a lot of videos

155 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:57:55pm

re: #153 Dianna

If the writer would run spell-check, I’d be more impressed.


But, a picture tells a thousand words…

156 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:58:18pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

Is it me? That does not like having fun.

157 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:58:45pm

re: #143 Dianna

That is your perfect right. However, if you want to make a living as a writer, or even just afford a nice Kimber for your significant other, it is nice to think that copyright keeps people from just stealing your work.

You know, people who suggest that there should be no copyright, or that it should only be a few years before it becomes public domain, have evidently never created something from scratch. Wrote, or invented, or put something together that never existed before.

If you had, you would suddenly understand.

158 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:58:53pm

re: #155 A Kiwi Infidel

But, a picture tells a thousand words…

Yes, but the inability of the blogger to spell “hypocrisy” in the headline sets my teeth on edge.

159 Last Mohican  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:59:12pm

re: #154 Killian Bundy

I though VAW-116’s second music video was better. See my link above.

Aw, hell, I’ll just cut and paste it again:

160 callahan23  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:59:43pm

re: #120 debutaunt

Revenge is best served with cold cuts.
-Tony Soprano

“Revenge is a dish best served cold”
And where that came from:
Star Trek II, The Wrath of Khan, Ricardo Montelbaum’s character tells Captain Kirk, in the sinister style that made this one of the very best Trek movies, “do you know there is a Klingon proverb which says
“revenge is a dish best served cold… it is very cold, in space….”
Some mo’ in that vein:
- Revenge in cold blood is the devil’s own act and deed - Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia (1732)
- Eat the dish of revenge cold instead of hot - Charles Lowe, Prince Bismarck (1885)
- Vengeance is a dish that can be eaten cold - James Payn, In Market Overt, ch. 17 (1895)

161 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:59:45pm

re: #144 Ward Cleaver

According to Wiki, the E-2 entered service in 1964.

As a aside:

Teixeira was born into a baseball family with a military discipline. His mother, Margy, has several ball-playing brothers; his father, John (Tex) Teixeira, a Navy pilot, played baseball at the U.S. Naval Academy.

[Link: www.veteransadvantage.com…]

I think his dad flew the P-3 ORION

162 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:59:46pm

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

Once again, why is it unreasonable for a company to retain control of material they own? No one’s going to starve over it, and it, er, belongs to them.

If someone wants to do a remake of Steamboat Willy, they should be able to without getting the pants sued off them by Disney. Disney owns Steamboat Willy, but it’s been out since 1928. Time it were public domain, like most other works of art created back then.

163 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:59:54pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

Check out the faces…

Diving at the FINA Swimming World Championships in Rome

It’s amazing how a clear that picture is, considering the divers were going an estimated umpty-gazillion miles per hour.

164 Pianobuff  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:00:26pm

re: #145 Nevergiveup

Gingrich Criticizes Defense Policies, Says Country Is on ‘Edge of Catastrophe’
In a speech full of dire scenarios and gloomy predictions, the former House speaker argues that no price is too high for the federal government to pay when it comes to shoring up national security.

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

So get back in the fight and stop sitting on the sidelines

And to top things off on your Monday…

In New Report, Neil Barofsky Says It’s Possible Government Could Spend $23.7 Trillion to Fix Financial System

“The total potential federal government support could reach up to $23.7 trillion,” says Neil Barofsky, the special inspector general for the Troubled Asset Relief Program, in a new report obtained Monday by ABC News on the government’s efforts to fix the financial system.

Yes, $23.7 trillion.

“The potential financial commitment the American taxpayers could be responsible for is of a size and scope that isn’t even imaginable,” said Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., ranking member on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. “If you spent a million dollars a day going back to the birth of Christ, that wouldn’t even come close to just $1 trillion — $23.7 trillion is a staggering figure.”

Granted, Barofsky is not saying that the government will definitely spend that much money. He is saying that potentially, it could.

At present, the government has about 50 different programs to fight the current recession, including programs to bail out ailing banks and automakers, boost lending and beat back the housing crisis.


Hope the week gets better…

165 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:00:39pm

re: #147 A Kiwi Infidel

OT but still on the theme of publishing, well, more like NOT publishing. This came across my desk this morning. The sad truth about kids in Gaza.

How in hell are we ever going to end this? Those children can’t grow up to become peaceful citizens of any state, can they? Aaarrgh.

166 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:00:46pm

re: #139 victor_yugo

If I choose to share my works freely, that is my choice, no matter what Harlan Ellison would force me to do, and no matter how many names he would call me to accomplish it.

And you can whether copyright is infinite or not.
Setting limits on it is just as much interfering in other writers’ rights as telling people they shouldn’t publish something free.

167 yochanan  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:00:49pm

re: #151 A Kiwi Infidel

Speaking of “1984” ( I read the novel years ago). Why would you read it now when you can go to Britain and experience the real thing, well, almost.

/

have then always been at war with oceania?

168 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:00:52pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

Check out the faces…

Diving at the FINA Swimming World Championships in Rome


I make those faces at times. Usually Taco Bell is involved.

169 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:00:58pm

re: #157 Walter L. Newton

Victor has a point - if you want to give your work away, you certainly may. I do tend to think that people properly value what they pay for, though. Like you, I think that creative work deserves protection. Particularly when it’s my very own precious words!

170 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:01:47pm

re: #153 Dianna

If the writer would run spell-check, I’d be more impressed.


The home page is in Hebrew. English is probably their second language. You could complain, just make sure your Hebrew is up to scratch.

171 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:02:09pm

re: #148 Walter L. Newton

Are you crazy? You create something, all your own, and after, or let’s say, 18 years, you want ANYONE to be able to make money off of your creation, to the point that you can’t even share in a meaningful amount of the profits of your work?

Once you sell it to Hollywood, you won’t make any money off of it, anyway. Just ask Peter Jackson how little money The Lord of the Rings made.

172 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:02:20pm

re: #152 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well said.

Thanks. I’ve never understood the mentality that copyrights should be short or non-existent. And I have never had anyone give me a good answer, or any answer.

So, you work for 10 years, buy a house, and pay that house off, and you go on a vacation and some squatters come along, move into your house while you are on vacation, and claim rights to you house.

Think about it, because that’s what you are suggesting when you complain about copyright laws.

173 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:02:22pm

re: #167 yochanan

have then always been at war with oceania?


What?

174 nikis-knight  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:02:30pm

re: #146 Stuart Leviton

If that is so, how does deleting items free up memory?

175 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:03:16pm

re: #170 A Kiwi Infidel

The home page is in Hebrew. English is probably their second language. You could complain, just make sure your Hebrew is up to scratch.

And this keeps him/her from using spell-check, how?

176 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:03:24pm

re: #162 Thanos

If someone wants to do a remake of Steamboat Willy, they should be able to without getting the pants sued off them by Disney. Disney owns Steamboat Willy, but it’s been out since 1928. Time it were public domain, like most other works of art created back then.

Ummm…why should someone be able to do a remake of Steamboat Willy? I mean, they might wish to, but why should they have a right to?

177 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:03:50pm

re: #171 victor_yugo

Once you sell it to Hollywood, you won’t make any money off of it, anyway. Just ask Peter Jackson how little money The Lord of the Rings made FOR HIM.

FTFY

178 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:03:52pm

re: #171 victor_yugo

Once you sell it to Hollywood, you won’t make any money off of it, anyway. Just ask Peter Jackson how little money The Lord of the Rings made.

That is the fault of his agent.

179 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:04:10pm

re: #133 Last Mohican

Congratulations! I suppose landing anything airborne on a carrier deck isn’t the safest job in the world, but I’m sure the Navy will teach him everything he needs to know.

I recently read this article about flying E-2’s after I discovered this music video made by the members of an E-2 squadron while deployed on the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln.

Dude I worked on the Lincoln TDY once…They had issues..The Navy paid a Bonus to get the Ship done ahead of time and costs…The Ship had quality issues..Several years into it’s deployment we went in a swapped out nearing every copper tube in the DU units…We used top of the line 70/30 tubing also for the heat exchangers..Costs a fortune to have Government workers fly on Board and change out stuff…
One thing.. This is a warship…you don’t scrimp on parts to save a buck..
And we were highly trained Government Nuclear workers that were the best in the world…Here is props to my brothers and Sisters…Highly trained and Motivated to support our Navy…hat tip to MINSY

180 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:04:33pm

re: #175 Dianna

And this keeps him/her from using spell-check, how?


Coffee time. I refuse to get into a bitchfest over spellcheck

181 eon  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:04:37pm

re: #114 avanti

OT, our “second son”, a midshipman we sponsored is now a Ensign in flight school. He’s going to train to fly E2’s and my wife has but one question, is that a safer billet then say jets ? I did look up the plane, early warning radar, often off carriers.

While unarmed, the Hawkeye is protected by the fleet-defense fighters it controls. Simply put, to get to the E-2, an enemy first has to get past the shooters that the E-2 is busy vectoring in on his a$$.

The Hawkeye also takes off and lands at a lower airspeed than any jet. While it normally takes a cat shot just like any other carrier plane, it’s avble to get off a Nimitz or Eisenhower- class CVN on its own power, due to originally being designed for the Forrestals back in the late Fifties.

The only problem I can see with your “son” being in E-2s is the actual age of the airframe. Since he’s a pilot, he won’t have the problems an operator does, namely being busier than the proverbial centipede at a toe-counting contest when things get busy.

/Tell him I said break a leg :-)

cheers

eon

182 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:04:38pm

India on Sunday night rebuffed an appeal by Hillary Clinton, US secretary of state, to embrace a low-carbon future in which the two countries would work together to devise new ways of consuming and producing energy.

[Link: www.ft.com…]

haven’t they heard about the famous Obama over there in India? or maybe they know it’s all bullshit and they have no intention of ruining their economy?

183 Last Mohican  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:05:19pm

re: #146 Stuart Leviton

. I would be curious to learn of newer strategies for deleting info on a computer.

You can buy “true erase” software that not only deletes a file’s entry in a directory, but actually overwrites it with zeroes.

184 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:05:29pm

re: #171 victor_yugo

Once you sell it to Hollywood, you won’t make any money off of it, anyway. Just ask Peter Jackson how little money The Lord of the Rings made.

So, that’s you reason why we should not have copyrights or short copyright periods? Have you been reading my comments? What’s your point? If you SIGN something over to someone, or a group of people, then you have done that yourself. Limiting copyrights or eliminating copyrights, or letting anyone steal your work is doing something that you have not giving permission to do.

Why is it so hard to understand if you create something original, it should belong to you?

185 opnion  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:06:35pm

While we are talking about copyright laws , how about drug company patents? If you spend your money & labor and make a break through& get approval you get the patent that you deserve for a finite period.
The problem arises when the pharmaceutical company requests & is granted extension after extension. Nobody else can produce it & the price is set high in a monopolistic way.
Obama could make some positive change by addressing issues like this rather than radically destroying the entire system.

186 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:06:42pm

re: #184 Walter L. Newton

And Peter Jackson did a screen play for which he was paid, I think. The actual work was done by Tolkien.

Though it was a lovely adaptation.

187 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:07:51pm

Oh, strange news seen in the elevator:

Three triathletes are recovering from injuries after an oak tree fell on them in Sonoma.

An oak tree?!

188 yochanan  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:07:52pm

re: #173 A Kiwi Infidel

1984 reference

189 Last Mohican  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:08:17pm

re: #181 eon

While unarmed, the Hawkeye is protected by the fleet-defense fighters it controls. Simply put, to get to the E-2, an enemy first has to get past the shooters that the E-2 is busy vectoring in on his a$$.

Here’s one of the comments on the E-2 article that I linked above:

I always liked it when the E-2 drivers would come into the AF officers clubs and brag about being the most heavily armed aircraft in the fleet. The AF guys would bite and ask what they were armed with. The pilots would say “Four F-14s”. Their patches had the Hawk with the Tomcat perched on the wing saying “Sic Em!”. Navy Humor…gotta love it.
190 Stuart Leviton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:08:19pm

re: #142 yochanan

mazel tov.

Yes! Yes! I second that emotion. Mazel tov, Avanti!

191 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:08:24pm

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

Once again, why is it unreasonable for a company to retain control of material they own? No one’s going to starve over it, and it, er, belongs to them.

There is a benefit to society in releasing works into the public domain. Older copyright laws granted rights to the creator of a work that lasted for the duration of their life, plus some period of time afterward (20 year?) to ensure that the retained the ability to profit from their creation, even for a period of time after their death to ensure that heirs might still benefit from the estate. In the end, the work entered the public domain, and everyone moved on.

The problem with applying this same logic to corporations is that they don’t have lifespans, at least not in the same sense that humans do. So the benefit to society of allowing free access to their works never occurs under the new laws.

The indefinite term of protection offered to corporations seems excessive, and I’m fairly certain the newer laws don’t go quite that far. But I’d have to check.

In the case of the original prints and other media owned by the studio, normal ownership rights come into play. Even if a work enters the public domain, any prints, negatives, original recordings and so forth owned by the studio remain the studio’s property. Although no longer protected by copyright, the studio is still able to profit from such ownership, by releasing remastered editions, for example. Copyright provides protection against copying - unauthorized publication. Entry of a work into the public domain doesn’t diminish the value to the holder of such original works.

192 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:08:42pm

re: #73 IslandLibertarian

I remembered.

193 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:08:50pm

re: #185 opnion

While we are talking about copyright laws , how about drug company patents? If you spend your money & labor and make a break through& get approval you get the patent that you deserve for a finite period.
The problem arises when the pharmaceutical company requests & is granted extension after extension. Nobody else can produce it & the price is set high in a monopolistic way.
Obama could make some positive change by addressing issues like this rather than radically destroying the entire system.

Patents are a somewhat different thing than copyrights, and areas where health and safety come into play are even more complicated.

194 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:09:57pm

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

Once again, why is it unreasonable for a company to retain control of material they own? No one’s going to starve over it, and it, er, belongs to them.

Because the Constitution explicitly forbids perpetual legal monopoly on creative works:

“To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries…” (Art. I, Sec. 8)

The key is that the government is enforcing that ownership. Coca-Cola does their own enforcement on the recipe, and they do a pretty good job of it. When the government does that enforcement, it is time-limited; when it expires, “ownership” passes to the public at large. That’s the “promotion of the arts and sciences” part in the Constitution.

195 eon  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:10:23pm

re: #160 callahan23

“Revenge is a dish best served cold”
And where that came from:
Star Trek II, The Wrath of Khan, Ricardo Montelbaum’s character tells Captain Kirk, in the sinister style that made this one of the very best Trek movies, “do you know there is a Klingon proverb which says
“revenge is a dish best served cold… it is very cold, in space….”
Some mo’ in that vein:
- Revenge in cold blood is the devil’s own act and deed - Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia (1732)
- Eat the dish of revenge cold instead of hot - Charles Lowe, Prince Bismarck (1885)
- Vengeance is a dish that can be eaten cold - James Payn, In Market Overt, ch. 17 (1895)

The original quote is apparently Mongol in origin, attributed to Genghiz Khan. It can be found in Marco Polo’s accounts of his travels in China, related to him as one of the basic axioms of the Mongol warriors by Genghiz’ son and successor, Kublai Khan.

Another quote from the same source is,

Better to bargain with a sword in hand than with a smile.

Which is most likely the original version of “You can get more with a smile, and a gun, than with just a smile alone.”

cheers

eon

196 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:11:02pm

re: #176 SanFranciscoZionist

Ummm…why should someone be able to do a remake of Steamboat Willy? I mean, they might wish to, but why should they have a right to?

Because CTEA was Bono-Headed. There’s a reason things go into public domain after long periods of time. Because after long periods of time they become part and parcel of public parlance. Look at the term “Mickey Mouse”… Mickey now belongs to America and Americans as much as he does some shareholders in the media holding company. 120 years of copyright? I say bullshit, and one day this will make it to the supreme court.

197 Last Mohican  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:11:07pm

re: #189 Last Mohican

Addendum: here’s the E-2 patch.

198 shiplord kirel  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:11:18pm

This is obviously the same technology they used to erase all of Obama’s Kenyan birth records.
////

199 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:11:42pm

So, does anyone know how long written words are copywritten? I have stuff with the writers guild from a bit ago.

200 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:11:58pm

re: #162 Thanos

I disagree. Disney has a right to protect its copyright, its property. Mickey Mouse is already a huge counterfeit problem, imagine if it became public domain.

Patents? I don’t feel so bad when a drug’s patent expires…

201 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:12:12pm

re: #184 Walter L. Newton

Why is it so hard to understand if you create something original, it should belong to you?

That comment about Peter Jackson was sarcasm. He sued the studio to get the royalties on the actual profits, not what the Hollywood accountants showed.

202 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:12:44pm

re: #194 victor_yugo

Because the Constitution explicitly forbids perpetual legal monopoly on creative works:

“To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries…” (Art. I, Sec. 8)

The key is that the government is enforcing that ownership. Coca-Cola does their own enforcement on the recipe, and they do a pretty good job of it. When the government does that enforcement, it is time-limited; when it expires, “ownership” passes to the public at large. That’s the “promotion of the arts and sciences” part in the Constitution.

Interesting, and a fair argument. However, the lifetime of the author, or something past it, does not strike me as a crazy amount of time.

203 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:14:33pm

re: #199 Cannadian Club Akbar

So, does anyone know how long written words are copywritten? I have stuff with the writers guild from a bit ago.

See the CTEA link in my post above

204 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:14:41pm

re: #201 victor_yugo

That comment about Peter Jackson was sarcasm. He sued the studio to get the royalties on the actual profits, not what the Hollywood accountants showed.

My former film skool teacher taught that there are no profits. So Peter was correct in doing so. That ploy works on stoners and drunks at Sundance, but not those in the know.

205 Killian Bundy  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:15:00pm

re: #181 eon

While unarmed, the Hawkeye is protected by the fleet-defense fighters it controls. Simply put, to get to the E-2, an enemy first has to get past the shooters that the E-2 is busy vectoring in on his a$$.

The Hawkeye also takes off and lands at a lower airspeed than any jet. While it normally takes a cat shot just like any other carrier plane, it’s avble to get off a Nimitz or Eisenhower- class CVN on its own power, due to originally being designed for the Forrestals back in the late Fifties.

Has the Navy even ever lost one in an accident?

/I’ve never heard of any

206 Outrider  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:15:11pm
… the company who sold the books through the Kindle store did not have the rights to publish them.

oops.

207 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:15:35pm

re: #197 Last Mohican

Addendum: here’s the E-2 patch.

My of my unit mates in the reserves flew E-2s on active duty and now flies for a commercial airline, but wants to go to Medical School. That why he is in a medical unit. We all think he is crazy. Nice guy but crazy. And obviously single also.

208 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:16:00pm

re: #186 Dianna

And Peter Jackson did a screen play for which he was paid, I think. The actual work was done by Tolkien.

Though it was a lovely adaptation.

And that was fair. He knew what he was going to get paid, he was contracted to adapt it to the screen. And if there was still a copyright holder to the original work, then the Tolkien estate got something.

My stage adaptation of “I Never Promised You a Rose Garden’ was just published. For every sale of the acting addition of the script, I get 70 percent. For every performance of the play, with the permission of the publisher, I get 70 percent of the nightly fee to perform the work.

Of that money I get from performances or purchases of the script, I have to give 50 percent to Joanne Greenberg (well, first to her agent at William Morris, he’ll take something off the top of her cut).

By the time the money gets back to the writer, it’s pennies on the dollar.

And some people want me to give this away for free? Bullshit.

209 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:16:21pm

re: #200 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I disagree. Disney has a right to protect its copyright, its property. Mickey Mouse is already a huge counterfeit problem, imagine if it became public domain.

Patents? I don’t feel so bad when a drug’s patent expires…

I agree.. But I also think if you write a book you should get something for it forever..Give the great grand kids a little cash for college…
I’m a big open source guy in Software…But it’s much more Complex with software. Different kinds of models… Like Linux or Windows…Different model

210 opnion  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:16:53pm

re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist

Patents are a somewhat different thing than copyrights, and areas where health and safety come into play are even more complicated.

You are absolutely correct & I didn’t mean to equate the two.
If I can’t break your copyrite to get your intellectual property, I get to live.
On the other hand If I can’t afford the price you demand for a lifesaving drug, I can die if you have no competitor.
y point was actually that BHO ignores fixable issues like this to do a power grab for the entire system.

211 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:16:56pm

re: #200 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I disagree. Disney has a right to protect its copyright, its property. Mickey Mouse is already a huge counterfeit problem, imagine if it became public domain.

Patents? I don’t feel so bad when a drug’s patent expires…

Well we are going to have to agree to disagree then.

212 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:17:05pm

re: #176 SanFranciscoZionist

Ummm…why should someone be able to do a remake of Steamboat Willy? I mean, they might wish to, but why should they have a right to?

Funny you should mention that. The title Steamboat Willy was a rip-off of Steamboat Bill Jr. I guess it depends on whose ox is being gored.

213 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:17:44pm

re: #185 opnion

While we are talking about copyright laws , how about drug company patents? If you spend your money & labor and make a break through& get approval you get the patent that you deserve for a finite period.
The problem arises when the pharmaceutical company requests & is granted extension after extension. Nobody else can produce it & the price is set high in a monopolistic way.
Obama could make some positive change by addressing issues like this rather than radically destroying the entire system.

Drug patents were originally no different from any other patent - 20 years protection from time of approval. Problems arose in recent years, because you want to lock down your patent rights as quickly as possible to prevent rivals from benefiting - but the FDA approval process and other procedural delays in bringing your product to market can burn through an enormous chunk of that period of protection, during which you can make no profit at all off your protected asset. So drug patents were extended to take this reality into account. Not sure what the extensions amount to, but they aren’t significantly longer than the 20 years granted to other inventions.

214 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:18:22pm

re: #210 opnion

You are absolutely correct & I didn’t mean to equate the two.
If I can’t break your copyrite to get your intellectual property, I get to live.
On the other hand If I can’t afford the price you demand for a lifesaving drug, I can die if you have no competitor.
y point was actually that BHO ignores fixable issues like this to do a power grab for the entire system.

No, got that. I really meant to just add on…

215 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:18:37pm

re: #208 Walter L. Newton

And that was fair. He knew what he was going to get paid, he was contracted to adapt it to the screen. And if there was still a copyright holder to the original work, then the Tolkien estate got something.

My stage adaptation of “I Never Promised You a Rose Garden’ was just published. For every sale of the acting addition of the script, I get 70 percent. For every performance of the play, with the permission of the publisher, I get 70 percent of the nightly fee to perform the work.

Of that money I get from performances or purchases of the script, I have to give 50 percent to Joanne Greenberg (well, first to her agent at William Morris, he’ll take something off the top of her cut).

By the time the money gets back to the writer, it’s pennies on the dollar.

And some people want me to give this away for free? Bullshit.

Edition (not addition, and I’m a writer?)

216 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:19:04pm

re: #212 victor_yugo

Funny you should mention that. The title Steamboat Willy was a rip-off of Steamboat Bill Jr. I guess it depends on whose ox is being gored.

I’m sorry, that flew directly over my head. Huh?

217 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:19:20pm

I have to share a really stupid t-shirt I saw today:

I (heart) Michelle Obama

218 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:19:32pm

Walt Disney died in 1966, without the corporation and the CTEA act Mickey Mouse would already be public domain.

219 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:19:58pm

re: #217 Mad Al-Jaffee

I have to share a really stupid t-shirt I saw today:

I (heart) Michelle Obama

She seems to inspire a great deal of…(heart)…with some people.

220 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:20:12pm

Lone Sailor award goes to Yankee great Berra
By Philip Ewing - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Jul 20, 2009 14:24:41 EDT
It’s déjà vu all over again: More than 60 years after baseball legend Yogi Berra served as a sailor in World War II, he’s being recognized by the Navy Memorial with this year’s Lone Sailor Award.

Berra, famed for his exploits as a New York Yankees catcher and a distinctive manipulator of the English language, exemplifies the Navy’s core values, according to an announcement Monday from the Navy Memorial.

“Our honorees are living examples of how service to country changes lives and helps develop leaders — whether it be in the world of sports, politics, government, the private sector or the arts,” said retired Rear Adm. Edward Walker Jr., president and CEO of the Navy Memorial, in the announcement. “The common theme they all express is that their public service has given them a solid foundation for their careers and instilled in them the enduring values that propels them to continue to ‘serve’ their communities.”

Berra interrupted his baseball career during World War II to enlist in the Navy, and he served aboard a missile boat during the Allied invasion of Normandy in 1944. When the war was over he began playing in the Major Leagues, where he went on to a Hall of Fame career with the Yankees.

Also to be honored at the Navy Memorial’s Lone Sailor ceremony in September are Leonard Lauder, chairman of the cosmetics giant Estée Lauder., who is a former Navy supply officer; and Frederick Smith, CEO of FedEx, who is a former Marine officer.

221 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:20:17pm
222 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:20:20pm

re: #199 Cannadian Club Akbar

So, does anyone know how long written words are copywritten? I have stuff with the writers guild from a bit ago.

If you hold the copyright, and you’re still alive, you’ve got nothing to worry about; you retain control.

Anything beyond that, you’re advised to consult an attorney with expertise in this area. Laws at the moment are exceedingly complex.

223 Last Mohican  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:20:39pm

re: #207 Nevergiveup

My of my unit mates in the reserves flew E-2s on active duty and now flies for a commercial airline, but wants to go to Medical School. That why he is in a medical unit. We all think he is crazy. Nice guy but crazy. And obviously single also.

Funny you should say that… the only naval aviator I ever knew who decided to bag flying and go to medical school was also an E-2C pilot.

224 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:20:44pm

OT:
More cheeriness from Iran…
Report: Iranian Militias Marry, Rape Virgin Prisoners Before Executions

And they don’t have gays either…

225 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:21:16pm

re: #217 Mad Al-Jaffee

I have to share a really stupid t-shirt I saw today:

I (heart) Michelle Obama

I saw a smoking hot blonde years back wear a Tee-shirt that said:
You can’t be first..But you might be next
Yes my knees buckled just a little…

226 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:21:19pm

re: #224 IslandLibertarian

OT:
More cheeriness from Iran…
Report: Iranian Militias Marry, Rape Virgin Prisoners Before Executions

And they don’t have gays either…

They’ve been doing that for decades at least. Such a nice world we live in.

227 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:21:21pm

re: #185 opnion

While we are talking about copyright laws , how about drug company patents? If you spend your money & labor and make a break through& get approval you get the patent that you deserve for a finite period.
The problem arises when the pharmaceutical company requests & is granted extension after extension. Nobody else can produce it & the price is set high in a monopolistic way.
Obama could make some positive change by addressing issues like this rather than radically destroying the entire system.

One problem for drug companies is that the patent starts when it is filed, but they can’t sell the drug until it is approved. I’d change it that for any product that requires government approval, the patent period doesn’t start until such approval is granted.
And then make it much harder to get the extensions.

228 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:21:24pm

re: #211 Thanos

And that’s okay.

229 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:22:26pm

Thank you Thanos and SixDegrees…

230 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:22:45pm

Oh, and lest this one slip through the cracks:

Thomas Edison worked out of New Jersey. The movie makers went to Hollywood, so that they could make film, cameras, and projectors without worrying about Edison’s patent enforcers.

Again, it depends on whose ox is being gored.

231 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:23:20pm

re: #225 HoosierHoops

hot California blond, driving a BMW, license plate holder said:
YES I DO, BUT NOT WITH YOU!

kinda cruel, but funny…

232 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:23:40pm

re: #224 IslandLibertarian

God damn them to the lowest level of Hell.

233 opnion  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:23:53pm

re: #213 SixDegrees

Drug patents were originally no different from any other patent - 20 years protection from time of approval. Problems arose in recent years, because you want to lock down your patent rights as quickly as possible to prevent rivals from benefiting - but the FDA approval process and other procedural delays in bringing your product to market can burn through an enormous chunk of that period of protection, during which you can make no profit at all off your protected asset. So drug patents were extended to take this reality into account. Not sure what the extensions amount to, but they aren’t significantly longer than the 20 years granted to other inventions.


But it is not unusual to grant multiple extensions. I have no problem at all with the R&D company7 recouping it’s investment & realising a good profit.
My problem is when their patent goes on & on & they set an uneasonable price

234 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:23:57pm

re: #216 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m sorry, that flew directly over my head. Huh?

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of Disney Corp. enforcing their Mickey Mouse copyright, when the very first Mickey Mouse talkie was itself a copyright violation.

235 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:24:17pm

re: #225 HoosierHoops

I saw a smoking hot blonde years back wear a Tee-shirt that said:
You can’t be first..But you might be next
Yes my knees buckled just a little…

A place I have bought shirts from has one that says:
“You’re hot but your mom does that thing with her tounge.”

236 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:24:35pm

re: #232 pingjockey

God damn them to the lowest level of Hell.

I think in their minds are already there.

237 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:24:42pm

re: #224 IslandLibertarian

OT:
More cheeriness from Iran…
Report: Iranian Militias Marry, Rape Virgin Prisoners Before Executions

And they don’t have gays either…

Yeah, lets make nice with them. And short shit used to be their leader

238 opnion  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:25:27pm

re: #227 Kosh’s Shadow

One problem for drug companies is that the patent starts when it is filed, but they can’t sell the drug until it is approved. I’d change it that for any product that requires government approval, the patent period doesn’t start until such approval is granted.
And then make it much harder to get the extensions.

That is a perfect solution & fair to all. Why doesn’t Obama do sometrhing like that instead of dragging us to rationing & outright denial of care?

239 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:25:30pm

re: #236 IslandLibertarian
Would that we could send their corporeal bodies there as well.

240 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:25:40pm

re: #208 Walter L. Newton

I loved the book “I Never Promised You a Rose Garden.” It’s an early example of my lifelong interest in mental illness, since I was probably about 11 or 12 when I read it. You even have a Wikipedia page for the play. I wish you the best of luck with it.

241 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:26:01pm

re: #204 Cannadian Club Akbar

My former film skool teacher taught that there are no profits. So Peter was correct in doing so. That ploy works on stoners and drunks at Sundance, but not those in the know.

I know that the accountants in Hollywood are more creative than the executives. No film makes money. You want a fraction of the gross. But you have to be a big name or they’re not going to give it to you.
(Of course, the studio gets money, the distribution company makes money, the star’s drug dealers make money, etc, but somehow, no matter how much money the film makes, there is never an actual profit for the film. You’re like Milton waiting for a piece of the cake.)

242 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:26:51pm

re: #194 victor_yugo

Because the Constitution explicitly forbids perpetual legal monopoly on creative works:

“To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries…” (Art. I, Sec. 8)

The key is that the government is enforcing that ownership. Coca-Cola does their own enforcement on the recipe, and they do a pretty good job of it. When the government does that enforcement, it is time-limited; when it expires, “ownership” passes to the public at large. That’s the “promotion of the arts and sciences” part in the Constitution.

Correct. The underlying thinking here is that, in return for a limited period of protection enforceable through the government, your works eventually revert ownership to society, which can then use them freely. As an additional benefit, at least in the case of patents, this encourages ongoing creativity, a desire to keep inventing new things that that qualify for the special legal protection - and the profitability it confers - offered by patents. Copyright is a bit fuzzier in this last area, but the principle still applies. Both inventors and society derive benefit from the arrangement over the long run.

243 opnion  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:26:52pm

re: #214 SanFranciscoZionist

No, got that. I really meant to just add on…

Hey, I wiffed.

244 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:28:29pm

re: #231 IslandLibertarian

hot California blond, driving a BMW, license plate holder said:
YES I DO, BUT NOT WITH YOU!

kinda cruel, but funny…

LOL
When i want to have fun with people I wear a of tons of tee-shirts I bought in the Red light District in Amsterdam.. I spent coin there…
The shock value is to die for some nights…

245 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:28:37pm

re: #240 doppelganglander

I loved the book “I Never Promised You a Rose Garden.” It’s an early example of my lifelong interest in mental illness, since I was probably about 11 or 12 when I read it. You even have a Wikipedia page for the play. I wish you the best of luck with it.

Thank you.

246 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:28:38pm

re: #216 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m sorry, that flew directly over my head. Huh?

You are so not alone in that.

So I add my “Huh?” to SFZ’s.

247 Truck Monkey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:28:53pm

re: #224 IslandLibertarian

OT:
More cheeriness from Iran…
Report: Iranian Militias Marry, Rape Virgin Prisoners Before Executions

And they don’t have gays either…

They’ve all been hung.

248 kynna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:29:09pm

re: #148 Walter L. Newton

Are you crazy? You create something, all your own, and after, or let’s say, 18 years, you want ANYONE to be able to make money off of your creation, to the point that you can’t even share in a meaningful amount of the profits of your work?

In that case, do something creative and let me know what it is. I’m going to have my heirs all over your estate in 18 years. Whoopee!

And don’t forget all the incidental costs passed on to authors. Often they need an agent just to get their book published. Bye-bye 10% off the gross! Publishers get their cut off the gross. Gov’t gets their cut off the gross. PR (since publishers are actually pretty cheap about this) get their cut off the gross.

Most authors make very little of the initial distribution of their product. For them to actually own it for a good, long while is no injustice, I think.

249 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:29:42pm

re: #241 Kosh’s Shadow

I know that the accountants in Hollywood are more creative than the executives. No film makes money. You want a fraction of the gross. But you have to be a big name or they’re not going to give it to you.
(Of course, the studio gets money, the distribution company makes money, the star’s drug dealers make money, etc, but somehow, no matter how much money the film makes, there is never an actual profit for the film. You’re like Milton waiting for a piece of the cake.)


IIRC, the people who did “The Blair Witch Project” got paid a million bucks. BUT, they kept the overseas rights and made another 17 mil. And BTW, they also stole the movie. Look into “The New Jersey Devil.”

250 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:29:56pm

re: #233 opnion

But it is not unusual to grant multiple extensions. I have no problem at all with the R&D company7 recouping it’s investment & realising a good profit.
My problem is when their patent goes on & on & they set an uneasonable price

I’m not sure what the requirements are for obtaining extensions. They may - or may not - be acceptable.

Without a doubt, the drug approval process in the US needs an overhaul, both in terms of streamlining and in terms of excluding authorities from the approval process who are also directly involved with the success of a given product.

251 callahan23  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:30:01pm

re: #224 IslandLibertarian

OT:
More cheeriness from Iran…
Report: Iranian Militias Marry, Rape Virgin Prisoners Before Executions

And they don’t have gays either…

They are such corrupted brain-dead mad-men that they are the very definition of insane.

252 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:30:10pm

Steamboat Willie?

How about Dreamboat Annie!!

253 kynna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:30:20pm

re: #208 Walter L. Newton

gmta

254 eon  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:30:20pm

re: #205 Killian Bundy

Has the Navy even ever lost one in an accident?

/I’ve never heard of any

There was one in August of 2007, shortly after takeoff, that killed three crewmen (out of five on board). Before that, the last E-2 crash was in 1993, and before that, 1990.

Naval-aviation training is dangerous, period, even more so than land-based combat flying (try taking off and landing on about a fifth of the average fighter strip with a F-15, sometime), and it’s a rare deployment that doesn’t include fatal crashes. It’s just a fact of life, and part of the “cost of doing business”, as an A-6 jock once told me; he and his WSO had to “go swimming” in the Med in ‘85 when their right engine flamed out at takeoff. The Intruder liked to roll when that happened, and they punched out before they got upside down.

That said, the E-2 has one of the best safety records of any naval combat aircraft in the last half-century. I think only its “little brother”, the old Grumman E-1B Tracer (an AEW version of the S2F Tracker ASW plane, aka the “Stoof”) had a record of less accidents per 1,000 hours operating time.

The most dangerous time in naval aviation other than combat is taking off and landing on the carrier. In a world of jets with lots of thrust and not a lot of wing area (bad at low speeds) the Hawkeye is basically a twin-turboprop transport with two big honking props and a huge wing, made to order for “low-and-slow”. In fact, it gave rise to the C-2A Greyhound, the standard Navy COD (Carrier Onboard Delivery) transport, that is still in service after nearly forty years having outlived its intended replacement, the C-3 version of the Lockheed S-3 Viking ASW jet (which is also retired).

There’s still something to be said for doing things the “old-fashioned” way, even in the 21st Century.

cheers

eon

255 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:30:48pm

re: #221 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Great. You now are going to get cherry picked to demonstrate what racists LGF commenters are. Thanks.

256 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:31:08pm

re: #248 kynna

And don’t forget all the incidental costs passed on to authors. Often they need an agent just to get their book published. Bye-bye 10% off the gross! Publishers get their cut off the gross. Gov’t gets their cut off the gross. PR (since publishers are actually pretty cheap about this) get their cut off the gross.

Most authors make very little of the initial distribution of their product. For them to actually own it for a good, long while is no injustice, I think.

Correct, see my #208

257 dwells38  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:31:27pm

re: #97 gymmom

re: #97 gymmom

I think Cheney gave up all his stock in Haliburton when he became Veep. IIRC, about 1/3rd of his wealth. (8 Million $ worth) But democrats don’t need to know that.

As I recall he divested himself as much as he could and any deferred compensation he had coming went into some sort of blind trust so no decisions he subsequently made could affect the fortunes of KBR/Haliburton one way or the other. Of course that still was not good enough. My own dad who’s never met a conspiracy theory he didn’t embrace (the first he ever told me was that FDR knew about Pearl Harbor but wanted an excuse to use the bomb) only yesterday was bemoaning that he’d bought KBR/Haliburton stock which ultimately never truly appreciated despite the billions that Cheney made on it. To which I had to ask…Billions Dad? I don’t think Cheney has ever been worth even 1 billion.

All you can do is laugh at them and be glad you don’t have such an infantile view of the world.

258 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:31:45pm

re: #240 doppelganglander

I loved the book “I Never Promised You a Rose Garden.” It’s an early example of my lifelong interest in mental illness, since I was probably about 11 or 12 when I read it. You even have a Wikipedia page for the play. I wish you the best of luck with it.

The most powerful book I have ever read was by Kurt Vonnegut’s son when he went crazy.. He wrote a book about his decent into hell and his return to sanity.Very powerful… Something like East of Eden or Eden something..It was 20 years ago..Deeply moving book.. I need to find it again

259 Kragar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:31:57pm

re: #255 Dianna

Great. You now are going to get cherry picked to demonstrate what racists LGF commenters are. Thanks.

Its not my fault they dont know spade means neutered.

260 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:32:12pm

re: #228 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

And that’s okay.

Don’t let my stance on this make you think I don’t like copyright btw, I am firmly in support of them. Pirate Bay, Kazaa and the like are scum of the earth to me, an artist owns the rights to their works, and the right to profit therefrom. After the artist’s death however there should be limits for the public good, and btw, for the artist’s posterity.

Beethoven is public domain, Shakespeare is public domain, Robert Louis Stevenson is public domain. Others can expand and embellish their great works, and they can be published for free in perpetuity. That’s a good thing, not a bad thing. At some point copy right must be limited, and I think they’ve gone too far in the recent extensions.

There’s an SF/Fantasy author that I love named Roger Zelazny - hollywood will never make a movie of his works, because the first was a flop, and they are too damned hard to make into a movie. It would take someone who loves the works to make that movie right. The only way that’s going to happen is if they get it for free. In another 60 years his works will largely be forgotten, and it’s highly unlikely that anyone will make the movies then. If the copyright were expired in 20 yrs from his death, the movie might be made…
So copy right expiring can be a good thing in some cases.

261 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:32:26pm

re: #242 SixDegrees

Correct. The underlying thinking here is that, in return for a limited period of protection enforceable through the government, your works eventually revert ownership to society, which can then use them freely. As an additional benefit, at least in the case of patents, this encourages ongoing creativity, a desire to keep inventing new things that that qualify for the special legal protection - and the profitability it confers - offered by patents.

Okay, here’s another question. If I set the circuit breakers in a skyscraper to write out

L
O
V
E

in the New York City skyline, is that violating a patent? The breakers themselves may have a patented design, but am I allowed to use them however I wish? Or, is the patent holder allowed to tell me I’m not allowed to use the breakers to create letters in a building’s windows?

And how is that different from using non-MPAA-approved DVD player programs? After all, the programs are merely bits, or if you will, switches inside the computer, arranged to produce a certain side-effect.

262 Killian Bundy  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:33:06pm

Second contractor with Murtha ties pleads guilty

A former Air Force contractor pleaded guilty Monday to a false statement and conflict-of-interest charge in a widening case involving several defense companies with ties to Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.).

Mark O’Hair faces up to 10 years in prison and a $500,000 fine for omitting any reference to his position as a director of a defense company on financial disclosure forms required for his position as a civilian program officer. The company received more than $200,000 in government contracts while O’Hair was in charge of awarding contractors for the Air Force Research Laboratory at Eglin Air Force Base in Florida.

After retiring from the Air Force in 2001, O’Hair became the senior electronic engineer with the Air Force Research Lab Munitions. Two years later, he became the contracts program manager for the Battlefield Airman program, which was designed to improve the military’s battlefield communications systems.

O’Hair is the second defense contractor is a week to plead guilty and agree to cooperate with a federal probe of earmarked contracts Murtha directed to several companies.

Last week, Richard Ianieri, the former chief executive of Coherent Systems International Corp., pleaded guilty to accepting $200,000 in kickbacks. He received the kickbacks from companies that he had parceled off some portions of the contract to; however, he received little to no concrete work in return.

/the day this scumbag finally goes to prison will be a glorious day to throw a party

263 opnion  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:33:10pm

re: #224 IslandLibertarian

OT:
More cheeriness from Iran…
Report: Iranian Militias Marry, Rape Virgin Prisoners Before Executions

And they don’t have gays either…


And our President refused to be judgemental, you know meddeling & all.

264 Truck Monkey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:33:52pm

re: #259 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Its not my fault they dont know spade means neutered.

I believe that’s spayed.

265 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:34:23pm

re: #185 opnion

While we are talking about copyright laws , how about drug company patents? If you spend your money & labor and make a break through& get approval you get the patent that you deserve for a finite period.
The problem arises when the pharmaceutical company requests & is granted extension after extension. Nobody else can produce it & the price is set high in a monopolistic way.
Obama could make some positive change by addressing issues like this rather than radically destroying the entire system.

Actually, IMHO, unlimited patent protection would result in substantially lower drug prices, as the drug company would not have to recoup it’s R&D expense over an artificially short time period. The patent time clock starts running when the patent is granted; FDA approval usually comes years later.

We should treat the pharmaceutical companies as national treasures, instead of using them as political whipping boys.

266 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:34:32pm

re: #259 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Its not my fault they dont know spade means neutered.

Ha, ha.

“Spayed”.

267 opnion  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:34:34pm

re: #250 SixDegrees

I’m not sure what the requirements are for obtaining extensions. They may - or may not - be acceptable.

Without a doubt, the drug approval process in the US needs an overhaul, both in terms of streamlining and in terms of excluding authorities from the approval process who are also directly involved with the success of a given product.

Exactly

268 jackflash  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:34:51pm

re: #112 Dianna

“You clearly are not a writer, or anyone else who cares about copyright.”


Well, of course, Dianna, if I depended on my writing for my income I’d be thrilled with having a copyright that gave me monopoly profits for 18 or 36 or 60 years. All monopolists love making monopoly profits, of course. We have laws preventing monopoly in the other sectors of the economy, however, because such market structures are bad for the rest of us and destructive for the economy. I think it’s pretty lame to suggest that copyrights this long are in any way needed to reward creativity and innovation. Maybe 5 years is the wrong length, and I just pulled 5 years out of the air, but 18 years is clearly wrong, too. Writers should stop whining and just increase their productivity. I would argue that a copyright, in the cases that it has significant value, might discourage creativity because the writer gets an income without concomitant additional contribution to the creative process. What are Huxley’s heirs doing to deserve this ongoing income stream?

269 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:35:42pm

re: #260 Thanos

Don’t let my stance on this make you think I don’t like copyright btw, I am firmly in support of them. Pirate Bay, Kazaa and the like are scum of the earth to me, an artist owns the rights to their works, and the right to profit therefrom.

I’m gonna muddy the waters even more. Please allow me to quote Tom Smith:

“I want my music on Napster,
I want the world to say ‘WOW!’
Some say I’m losing money,
Like I’m making it now.
I want my music on Napster,
Metallica leave us alone!
You want your bloated profits,
I just want to be known.”

270 Kragar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:36:12pm

re: #264 Truck Monkey

I believe that’s spayed.

Sorry, I guess I’m just being homophone-bic.

271 Truck Monkey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:37:04pm

re: #270 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sorry, I guess I’m just being homophone-bic.

Bob Barker would be disappointed in you. ;-)

272 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:37:34pm

re: #268 jackflash

“You clearly are not a writer, or anyone else who cares about copyright.”

Well, of course, Dianna, if I depended on my writing for my income I’d be thrilled with having a copyright that gave me monopoly profits for 18 or 36 or 60 years. All monopolists love making monopoly profits, of course. We have laws preventing monopoly in the other sectors of the economy, however, because such market structures are bad for the rest of us and destructive for the economy. I think it’s pretty lame to suggest that copyrights this long are in any way needed to reward creativity and innovation. Maybe 5 years is the wrong length, and I just pulled 5 years out of the air, but 18 years is clearly wrong, too. Writers should stop whining and just increase their productivity. I would argue that a copyright, in the cases that it has significant value, might discourage creativity because the writer gets an income without concomitant additional contribution to the creative process. What are Huxley’s heirs doing to deserve this ongoing income stream?

You’re an ass, you know that, right?

Do you write, or paint, or sculpt or whatever?

If not, shut your pie-hole.

273 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:37:46pm

re: #271 Truck Monkey

Bob Barker would be disappointed in you. ;-)

He’d really hate my bumper sticker:

I (club) my (dog’s head)

274 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:37:59pm

re: #263 opnion

Our President is an enabling socialist spender of other peoples money.
He could give a rats ass for the people of Iran.
Dialogue schmialogue!
“0” pronounced zero.

275 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:38:27pm

re: #258 HoosierHoops

The most powerful book I have ever read was by Kurt Vonnegut’s son when he went crazy.. He wrote a book about his decent into hell and his return to sanity.Very powerful… Something like East of Eden or Eden something..It was 20 years ago..Deeply moving book.. I need to find it again

The Eden Express: A Memoir of Insanity by Mark Vonnegut. I will check it out.

276 opnion  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:38:49pm

re: #265 Son of the Black Dog

Actually, IMHO, unlimited patent protection would result in substantially lower drug prices, as the drug company would not have to recoup it’s R&D expense over an artificially short time period. The patent time clock starts running when the patent is granted; FDA approval usually comes years later.

We should treat the pharmaceutical companies as national treasures, instead of using them as political whipping boys.

The problem is without competition, the price can be set artificially high.
I don’t demonize the drug companies, but I would not call them national treaures either.
The same drug you get here is much cheaper in Austria & other countries. The government negotiates fess with the Pharmas.
They pass off trheir R&D charges here. I get it for a reasonable amount of time, but not extension after extension.

277 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:38:56pm

re: #262 Killian Bundy
Please, please tie these assholes to Murtha so frakkin’ tight he chokes on his own bile. Goddamn traitorous son of bitch, him and Jon F’n Kary both need to be put in a leaky lead boat wearing cement life jackets.

278 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:39:02pm

re: #269 victor_yugo

I’m gonna muddy the waters even more. Please allow me to quote Tom Smith:

“I want my music on Napster,
I want the world to say ‘WOW!’
Some say I’m losing money,
Like I’m making it now.
I want my music on Napster,
Metallica leave us alone!
You want your bloated profits,
I just want to be known.”

Again, he has the right to cede his copyright because he owns it. Nobody else does however.

279 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:39:09pm

re: #272 Dianna

You’re an ass, you know that, right?

Do you write, or paint, or sculpt or whatever?

If not, shut your pie-hole.

Unbelievable. A troll who registered just to wait for a COPYRIGHT thread. Must be lonely. And stupid.

280 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:40:14pm

re: #260 Thanos

I agree to an extent on “forgotten works”… Disney, is still (like it or not) a thriving enterprise, whose centerpiece is Mickey Mouse.

That’s all…

281 Wendya  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:40:36pm

re: #122 SanFranciscoZionist

If I build a house, it is ridiculous for me to expect it to belong to me and my heirs for more than sixty years?

Apparently, the founders didn’t choose to grant perpetual rights to words and ideas.

Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of the United States Constitution:

(The Congress shall have the power) To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

282 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:40:41pm

I’m out.

283 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:41:18pm

re: #266 Dianna

Ha, ha.

“Spayed”.

Mother Superior: “These construction workers fixing the school are good men, strong men and they might use rough language and call a spade a spade.”
Novice Nun: “Oh no Mother Superior, they call it a FUCKIN’ SHOVEL!”

284 haakondahl  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:41:48pm

re: #99 victor_yugo

Question:

Let’s say you walk into a book store and buy an unauthorized copy of 1984 that the store is carrying, ignorant of the unauthorized status of the publication. When the store finds out that they’re selling an unauthorized copy, they can pull it from their shelves. But should they then be able to confiscate the copy you purchased?

I only see you and one other addressing this point. In the old days, nobody would come to your house when you were not home (no notification) to remove the book from your shelf. But now, with Homeland Security policing shelves in Seattle for copyright violations while our southern border flaps lazily in the breeze of passing illegals, it could happen. Would it? Probably not. But I wouldn’t bet against it any more.
Just the same, it must be comforting to ascribe these things to over-arching globalist conspiracies. The real and unending horror is that it’s just mismanagement and ham-fisted application of authority.

285 opnion  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:41:49pm

re: #274 IslandLibertarian

Our President is an enabling socialist spender of other peoples money.
He could give a rats ass for the people of Iran.
Dialogue schmialogue!
“0” pronounced zero.

Yeah, I don’t like him either. We have the 2010 elections coming up, let’s vote in a fire wall & stick it to that snot.

286 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:41:50pm

re: #275 doppelganglander

The Eden Express: A Memoir of Insanity by Mark Vonnegut. I will check it out.

Thank you so much for that link…I remember it was a powerful true story of spiraling into the world of insanity…And when they found he had a chemical imbalance his reurn to the world of the Sane…Whew..Pretty powerful stuff..
There should be a movie…mmm…who wants to split the production credits?

287 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:41:56pm

re: #261 victor_yugo

Okay, here’s another question. If I set the circuit breakers in a skyscraper to write out

L
O
V
E

in the New York City skyline, is that violating a patent? The breakers themselves may have a patented design, but am I allowed to use them however I wish? Or, is the patent holder allowed to tell me I’m not allowed to use the breakers to create letters in a building’s windows?

And how is that different from using non-MPAA-approved DVD player programs? After all, the programs are merely bits, or if you will, switches inside the computer, arranged to produce a certain side-effect.

Patents and copyrights don’t prevent use - they prevent making a profit by manufacturing or copying someone else’s work. You’re free to use your circuit breakers any way you see fit; just don’t copy their design and manufacture them for sale.

Decrypting encoded media that you’re legally purchased - for your own use - is probably fine, although the law here is still somewhat murky. Selling copies of those works - whether encrypted or not - is illegal if they’re protected by copyright. Selling the actual devices that do the decrypting is murky because the decryption algorithms themselves may be protected; so you aren’t violating the media copyright, but may wind up violating the copyright or patent of the person who holds the papers on that process.

288 jackflash  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:42:14pm

re: #208 Walter L. Newton
And you get 35% of the money made by others by producing copies of your play or producing, renting venues, and performing your play. All you have to do is sit there reading LGF. You think it’s efficient to continuing rewarding you into your dotage and then continuing to reward your heirs for this? This is simply a distortion of the creation and production process.

289 Last Mohican  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:42:20pm

re: #263 opnion

And our President refused to be judgemental, you know meddeling & all.

Hey, who are we to be judgmental? After all, it was America that produced the Ford Pinto, an initially popular car whose poorly designed fuel tank was prone to catching fire in rear-end collisions. And Iran systematically orders men to violently rape innocent women before they are murdered because of their political beliefs.

Nobody’s perfect, let’s all forget our differences and hug.

/Obama

290 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:44:02pm

re: #272 Dianna

You’re an ass, you know that, right?

Do you write, or paint, or sculpt or whatever?

If not, shut your pie-hole.

I think you accidentally gave jackflash ass an upding.

291 debutaunt  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:44:29pm

re: #272 Dianna

You’re an ass, you know that, right?

Do you write, or paint, or sculpt or whatever?

If not, shut your pie-hole.


Pssst - you gave him an upding.

292 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:45:12pm

re: #288 jackflash

You a Democrat?

293 opnion  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:45:27pm

re: #289 Last Mohican

Hey, who are we to be judgmental? After all, it was America that produced the Ford Pinto, an initially popular car whose poorly designed fuel tank was prone to catching fire in rear-end collisions. And Iran systematically orders men to violently rape innocent women before they are murdered because of their political beliefs.

Nobody’s perfect, let’s all forget our differences and hug.

/Obama


Thank you for that, I now understand my cultural insensitivity.
Thak God for the nuance & sophistication of our Dear Leader

294 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:45:32pm

re: #272 Dianna

You’re an ass, you know that, right?

Do you write, or paint, or sculpt or whatever?

If not, shut your pie-hole.

re: #279 Walter L. Newton

Unbelievable. A troll who registered just to wait for a COPYRIGHT thread. Must be lonely. And stupid.

When you don’t have a dog in the fight, then BFD. Few people have put a shitload of work and studying into creating, whether it is writing, painting or whatever. There are those who do. And the ones that can’t become critics.

295 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:45:54pm

re: #288 jackflash

It’s called capitalism. Creativity takes work, he deserves to profit from it. Who are you? Marx’s ghost?

296 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:46:46pm

I have never understood the copy right stuff, especially for writers and musicians. It is the fruit of your mind, what right do other folks have to that labor without just compensation?

297 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:47:06pm

re: #295 Thanos

It’s called capitalism. Creativity takes work, he deserves to profit from it. Who are you? Marx’s ghost?

Probably a bitter, unpublished writer. His name is Legion.

298 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:47:37pm

re: #288 jackflash

Walter’s already in his “dotage”, thank you very much.

299 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:48:07pm

re: #287 SixDegrees

Decrypting encoded media that you’re legally purchased - for your own use - is probably fine, although the law here is still somewhat murky.

Precisely the reason I’ll never own a Kindle, which is the starting point for this whole thread. For Amazon to require my trust that they won’t abuse my purchases via the Kindle firmware, is to lose that trust.

Fuck ‘em.

300 haakondahl  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:48:23pm

re: #259 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Its not my fault they dont know spade means neutered.

“Spayed”, God Dammit. It is your fault.

301 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:48:29pm

BB in about an hour. Hey JACKFLASH, if you have the nerve, click on my name and email me and I can set you strait on copyrights and the little money an author makes from a play.

If you want to learn something. Otherwise, shut up.

302 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:48:43pm

re: #288 jackflash

And you get 35% of the money made by others by producing copies of your play or producing, renting venues, and performing your play. All you have to do is sit there reading LGF. You think it’s efficient to continuing rewarding you into your dotage and then continuing to reward your heirs for this? This is simply a distortion of the creation and production process.

Oh boy…Is this the way you want to start a discussion about copywrite laws?
let’s tread easy ok?

303 opnion  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:48:47pm

re: #296 pingjockey

I have never understood the copy right stuff, especially for writers and musicians. It is the fruit of your mind, what right do other folks have to that labor without just compensation?

Yup, If someone wants to make moey off of something creative, do somethig original.

304 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:48:50pm

Gasp! Do you mean that in America, you can only sell things you own? How can this be?

305 Last Mohican  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:48:57pm

re: #268 jackflash

Kind of a nonstandard use of the term “monopoly,” isn’t it? Describing a writer’s ownership of his or her own creation?

306 jackflash  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:49:11pm

re: #272 Dianna

“You’re an ass, you know that, right?

Do you write, or paint, or sculpt or whatever?

If not, shut your pie-hole.”

You know, Dianna, if you were a better writer you’d be able to construct an argument and express your thoughts and conclusions without having to resort to calling someone else an “ass.” If this is the best you can do, you’d probably be better off looking for another profession. Just my opinion.
JF

307 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:49:45pm

re: #281 Wendya

This is something that hadn’t occurred to me previously, and I plan to try to find out more about the history of that item.

Good to know.

308 Kragar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:49:55pm

re: #300 haakondahl

“Spayed”, God Dammit. It is your fault.

Now who is being homophone-bic?

309 Kragar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:51:19pm

re: #304 Emmmieg

Gasp! Do you mean that in America, you can only sell things you own? How can this be?

Nah, they took care of that with eminent domain. You’re good.

310 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:51:20pm
311 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:51:20pm

re: #292 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You a Democrat?

No, I’M the Democrat. Do I need to wear a little hat with a propeller on it or something so people remember?

312 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:52:02pm

re: #288 jackflash

I refreshed just to ding you down. It’s Walter’s brain. He owns what it produces.

313 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:52:05pm
314 jackflash  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:52:08pm

re: #292 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The question was “are you a Democrat?”

Not sure how this applies, but I’m just part of that amorphous gang identifying as independents. My grandma’s a Demo. Want her number?

315 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:52:09pm

re: #301 Walter L. Newton

BB in about an hour. Hey JACKFLASH, if you have the nerve, click on my name and email me and I can set you strait on copyrights and the little money an author makes from a play.

If you want to learn something. Otherwise, shut up.

Ok, I don’t have to take the teen to piano lesson until a little later, so I’m here for a while.

316 Truck Monkey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:52:23pm

This is just too awesome not to pass along.

317 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:52:29pm

re: #268 jackflash

“You clearly are not a writer, or anyone else who cares about copyright.”

Well, of course, Dianna, if I depended on my writing for my income I’d be thrilled with having a copyright that gave me monopoly profits for 18 or 36 or 60 years. All monopolists love making monopoly profits, of course. We have laws preventing monopoly in the other sectors of the economy, however, because such market structures are bad for the rest of us and destructive for the economy. I think it’s pretty lame to suggest that copyrights this long are in any way needed to reward creativity and innovation. Maybe 5 years is the wrong length, and I just pulled 5 years out of the air, but 18 years is clearly wrong, too. Writers should stop whining and just increase their productivity. I would argue that a copyright, in the cases that it has significant value, might discourage creativity because the writer gets an income without concomitant additional contribution to the creative process. What are Huxley’s heirs doing to deserve this ongoing income stream?

Copyright applies not only to particular works, but to derivative works as well. J.K. Rowling has successfully prevented several other authors from using characters and settings clearly derived directly from her Harry Potter series. Just last month, J.D. Salinger brought suit against an author who published a novel detailing the life of Holden Caulfield in middle age for copyright infringement of Catcher in the Ryel there is little doubt that Salinger will prevail, because the appropriation of another artist’s intellectual property extends beyond a particular work and protects future work as well. Rowling holds exclusive rights not only to what she has already published, but to any additional works she may publish making use of the same characters, settings and themes.

In short, it’s your work, you own it, and possession of a copyright on it legally entitles you to sue anyone who attempts to steal it and use it for their own purposes without your express permission. Analogies with home ownership are perfectly apt here; there’s no difference between physical, tangible property like a home or a boat or a diamond necklace, and intellectual property like a novel or a song or a painting.

To be even shorter, there is no one on the planet of any significance whatsoever who shares your opinion on this matter.

318 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:53:23pm

re: #310 buzzsawmonkey

I was so hoping you’d drop by. Thank you for that.

319 opnion  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:53:45pm

re: #309 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nah, they took care of that with eminent domain. You’re good.

When municipalites can take your property to deliver to an entity that will create more in properety & or sales taxes we are in trouble indeed. They don’t even have to show public good.

320 haakondahl  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:53:55pm

re: #288 jackflash

And you get 35% of the money made by others by producing copies of your play or producing, renting venues, and performing your play. All you have to do is sit there reading LGF. You think it’s efficient to continuing rewarding you into your dotage and then continuing to reward your heirs for this? This is simply a distortion of the creation and production process.

Jackflash, would you describe your interest in this area more along the lines of making things for free, or of taking things for free? Hmmm?

321 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:53:59pm

re: #311 SanFranciscoZionist

No, I’M the Democrat. Do I need to wear a little hat with a propeller on it or something so people remember?

Tin foil hat with a propeller. Geez…
/

322 Erik The Red  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:54:06pm

re: #306 jackflash

“You’re an ass, you know that, right?

Do you write, or paint, or sculpt or whatever?

If not, shut your pie-hole.”

You know, Dianna, if you were a better writer you’d be able to construct an argument and express your thoughts and conclusions without having to resort to calling someone else an “ass.” If this is the best you can do, you’d probably be better off looking for another profession. Just my opinion.
JF

Hey Jackass

I am not a writer, nor will I ever be one.

YOU ARE A FUCKING ARSEHOLE

323 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:54:14pm

re: #314 jackflash

The question was “are you a Democrat?”

Not sure how this applies, but I’m just part of that amorphous gang identifying as independents. My grandma’s a Demo. Want her number?

You are a little fucking smart ass aren’t you?
Good luck..You’re going to need it…

324 Last Mohican  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:54:34pm

re: #122 SanFranciscoZionist

If I build a house, it is ridiculous for me to expect it to belong to me and my heirs for more than sixty years?

You selfish monopolist! Stop monopolizing on your monopoly like that! I demand that you allow me and my family to come over to your house, sleep in your spare bedroom, and watch classic James Bond movies on your plasma TV.

And while you’re at it, stop monopolizing all that Haagen-Dazs that you’re keeping in your freezer, too.

325 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:54:47pm

re: #305 Last Mohican

Kind of a nonstandard use of the term “monopoly,” isn’t it? Describing a writer’s ownership of his or her own creation?

Yes, it is. If I choose to wrote a funny Regency romance with sex scenes I can. Amanda Quick does not own the patent to the concept. I can even hope to catch some extra business from her popularization of the idea. There is no ‘monopoly’ involved. She continues to get the royalties from the ones she wrote, however—and I’m OK with that!

326 opnion  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:55:08pm

re: #315 Walter L. Newton

Ok, I don’t have to take the teen to piano lesson until a little later, so I’m here for a while.

Good luck with the play.

327 haakondahl  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:55:13pm

re: #313 buzzsawmonkey

Hey, haak. Left you a message at the bottom of the overnight thread where we were going at it.

Shhh. People will start to suspect us.

328 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:55:34pm

re: #305 Last Mohican

Kind of a nonstandard use of the term “monopoly,” isn’t it? Describing a writer’s ownership of his or her own creation?

wasn’t Charles Darrow swindled out of his rights to the game Monopoly?…he didn’t have a monopoly

329 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:56:06pm

re: #321 Cannadian Club Akbar

Tin foil hat with a propeller. Geez…
/

I’ll send my kids by to decorate it with stickers for you, ‘kay?

330 Joshua Cohen  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:56:21pm

re: #183 Last Mohican

You can buy “true erase” software that not only deletes a file’s entry in a directory, but actually overwrites it with zeroes.

Or you can use full disk encryption instead.

It also helps a lot if a disk break and you have to send it back to the manufacturer.
Often it is just the controller, and these refitted disk will be sold/changed to other customers or the aftermarket.
Who can than access your data without problems.

331 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:56:44pm
332 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:56:46pm

re: #317 SixDegrees

Salinger in fact won that lawsuit, thus dashing forever my adolescent dream of writing a stage adaptation of “The Catcher in the Rye.” Bad luck for us he’s lived into his 90s.

333 haakondahl  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:57:18pm

re: #292 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You a Democrat?

losertarian.

334 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:57:37pm

re: #311 SanFranciscoZionist

No, I’M the Democrat. Do I need to wear a little hat with a propeller on it or something so people remember?

Sorry. I should have asked if he/she was a “liberal”.

Not all Democrats are nanny stating, tax robbing, property stealing, taking from old people, handing over someone else’s life work nutjobs.

335 austin_blue  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:57:41pm

re: #260 Thanos

Don’t let my stance on this make you think I don’t like copyright btw, I am firmly in support of them. Pirate Bay, Kazaa and the like are scum of the earth to me, an artist owns the rights to their works, and the right to profit therefrom. After the artist’s death however there should be limits for the public good, and btw, for the artist’s posterity.

Beethoven is public domain, Shakespeare is public domain, Robert Louis Stevenson is public domain. Others can expand and embellish their great works, and they can be published for free in perpetuity. That’s a good thing, not a bad thing. At some point copy right must be limited, and I think they’ve gone too far in the recent extensions.

There’s an SF/Fantasy author that I love named Roger Zelazny - hollywood will never make a movie of his works, because the first was a flop, and they are too damned hard to make into a movie. It would take someone who loves the works to make that movie right. The only way that’s going to happen is if they get it for free. In another 60 years his works will largely be forgotten, and it’s highly unlikely that anyone will make the movies then. If the copyright were expired in 20 yrs from his death, the movie might be made…
So copy right expiring can be a good thing in some cases.

“Damnation Alley”. Yeah, the movie sucked but the book was great. I always thought the Amber series had possibilities.

336 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:58:05pm

re: #333 haakondahl

losertarian.

probably a Cubs fan

337 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:58:08pm

re: #295 Thanos

I have a Leftist friend who believes that ALL property should be turned over to the state when the owner dies rather than being given to the heirs.
Funny kind of craziness!

338 Salem  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:58:15pm

So India isn’t going to play ball with Obama on the climate bill, huh? Why can’t they understand that AGW is PEER REVIEWED SCIENCE! Resistance is futile!

Or not

339 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:58:17pm

re: #329 EmmmieG

I’ll send my kids by to decorate it with stickers for you, ‘kay?


Only if the stickers say “I (heart) Michelle Obama.
//////

340 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:58:37pm

re: #332 doppelganglander
Why not write a stage adaptation and talk to the man about sharing it or whatever you artist types do…creative collaboration?!

341 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:58:50pm

re: #299 victor_yugo

Precisely the reason I’ll never own a Kindle, which is the starting point for this whole thread. For Amazon to require my trust that they won’t abuse my purchases via the Kindle firmware, is to lose that trust.

Fuck ‘em.

They may decide that such access causes more problems than it is worth. In that case, they’ll stop tinkering with your machine’s contents, and rewrite their licensing agreement to stipulate that if a situation like the present one arises, they will turn your name and contact information over to litigants attempting to enforce copyrights.

The potential downside is that copyright holders may decide not to grant licensing rights to Amazon because of the difficulty of prosecuting thousands of individual violators. Amazon has to weight the potential for sales of a loss of content providers against a loss of content users. Hard to say which way that would go, but I’d guess most people aren’t going to be concerned about what Amazon does with their hardware, anymore than they care what Microsoft does to their other hardware.

342 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:59:02pm

re: #337 IslandLibertarian

I have a Leftist friend who believes that ALL property should be turned over to the state when the owner dies rather than being given to the heirs.
Funny kind of craziness!

Sounds like someone with poor parents.

343 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:59:42pm

re: #334 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sorry. I should have asked if he/she was a “liberal”.

Not all Democrats are nanny stating, tax robbing, property stealing, taking from old people, handing over someone else’s life work nutjobs.

The nutjob in the tinfoil propeller-beanie thanks you for them kind words. ;)

344 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:00:10pm

re: #340 pingjockey

Why not write a stage adaptation and talk to the man about sharing it or whatever you artist types do…creative collaboration?!

If it were anyone but Salinger, you’d have a good point, but when someone hasn’t spoken to the press or produced new work in nearly 50 years, I think it’s safe to assume he’d rather be left alone.

345 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:00:22pm

re: #310 buzzsawmonkey

Copyrights last for the artist’s life plus 70 years, ignoramus

70 years. Thanks. I couldn’t remember what the extension beyond the artist’s lifetime was.

346 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:00:32pm

re: #326 opnion

Good luck with the play.

Thanks.

347 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:00:55pm

callahan, you lurking updinger, I know you’re there! How’s things?

348 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:00:59pm

re: #337 IslandLibertarian

I have a Leftist friend who believes that ALL property should be turned over to the state when the owner dies rather than being given to the heirs.
Funny kind of craziness!

My family’s theory is that you should spend all your money on fun stuff before you die, and then leave anything left over to the SPCA.

349 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:01:08pm

re: #344 doppelganglander
Oh. Damn. Sorry about that.

350 Truck Monkey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:01:35pm

re: #337 IslandLibertarian

I have a Leftist friend who believes that ALL property should be turned over to the state when the owner dies rather than being given to the heirs.
Funny kind of craziness!

I believe that Bill and Melinda Gates and Warren Buffet believe in a version of this too.

351 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:02:04pm
352 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:02:26pm

((((Dianna))))

Thanks for the upding, most unexpected.

[moving on]

353 Erik The Red  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:02:36pm

re: #348 SanFranciscoZionist

My family’s theory is that you should spend all your money on fun stuff before you die, and then leave anything left over to the SPCA.

SKI Club
Spend
Kids
Inheritance

354 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:02:40pm

re: #350 Truck Monkey

I believe that Bill and Melinda Gates and Warren Buffet believe in a version of this too.

Bill and Melinda, I think, just plan to leave their money to charity rather than the kids, which is a bit different—they have the option. Or do they actually believe it should be mandatory?

355 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:02:43pm

re: #311 SanFranciscoZionist

No, I’M the Democrat. Do I need to wear a little hat with a propeller on it or something so people remember?

re: #316 Truck Monkey

This is just too awesome not to pass along.

We’ve been grunge rolled!

356 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:02:43pm

re: #350 Truck Monkey
That’s because they are richer’n God and can do loonie shit like that.

357 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:03:23pm

re: #310 buzzsawmonkey

Interesting, isn’t it? Every other form of property lasts forever—but copyrights disappear into the ether about the time the grandkids are gearing up for college.

Try not paying your property taxes, and see how quickly that real estate becomes “not yours.”

Allodial title

358 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:03:41pm
359 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:03:56pm

re: #337 IslandLibertarian

I have a Leftist friend who believes that ALL property should be turned over to the state when the owner dies rather than being given to the heirs.
Funny kind of craziness!

Sounds like somebody who’s family died with nothing knew somebody whose family died with a lot.

Seriously. I think a lot of political views come from being pissed off at something.

360 Truck Monkey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:04:11pm

re: #354 SanFranciscoZionist

Bill and Melinda, I think, just plan to leave their money to charity rather than the kids, which is a bit different—they have the option. Or do they actually believe it should be mandatory?

They were quoted not too many years back about believing in confiscatory estate taxes. They believed at the time that they should be very high.

361 callahan23  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:04:13pm

re: #347 doppelganglander

callahan, you lurking updinger, I know you’re there! How’s things?

Oh shugs you found me out. Today I have a lazy typing hand. Is why I was lurking ‘n dinging. Otherwise I am fine beyond the usual work stress.
How are you my dear. Hope today finds you well.

362 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:04:32pm

OK, I need to go home now. Eat dinner. Not think about direct objects for a while. See everyone later!

/twirls the propeller

363 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:04:35pm

re: #349 pingjockey

Oh. Damn. Sorry about that.

No need to be sorry. I wasn’t very serious about it, which is why I called it my adolescent dream. Anyway, I’ve never developed the self-discipline required to produce a complete work, even though I like to think I’m a good writer (and in fact I get paid to write technical things). But you get an upding for being kind and thoughtful.

P.S. Hope you’re feeling well today.

364 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:04:37pm

re: #331 buzzsawmonkey

I’ll tell you something, though—and this is right from the trenches.

Copyright is under serious attack—by the “info wants to be free” (translation: we want your work without paying for it) crowd, and by the corporations who are very, very possessive about their own copyrights, but not so much about yours.

The current effort to pass an “orphan works” bill—basically, a law that says if it’s tough to find you, tough luck for you if you want to sue us—has been building for years, and will more than likely pass this Congress or the next. It almost made it last time.

Fair use is being expanded, from an exemption for educational usage to “it isn’t fair if we can’t use it.” There are efforts to prune back the copyright law from life plus seventy to 14 years renewable for another 14. It ain’t all rosepetals out there, folks.

I’m aware of attacks from the other direction that you outline here. Most of my experience is with the Open Source Software crowd, who are extending their philosophy into the entire intellectual property realm, and I happen to think that Richard Stallman is a raving lunatic asshole who ought to give me his car and every penny in all of his bank accounts when I demand it, just ‘cause.

I don’t think there was anything wrong with the old copyright laws; they could have easily been extended to new media, particularly digital imaging technologies, without so much as a tweak. The whole “new media” argument was a smokescreen to user in the sort of corporate control you refer to above.

365 wiffersnapper  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:04:48pm

See what happens when you read more than the headline?

366 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:04:56pm

re: #359 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sounds like somebody who’s family died with nothing knew somebody whose family died with a lot.

Seriously. I think a lot of political views come from being pissed off at something.


in my case, the federal govt

367 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:05:09pm

re: #360 Truck Monkey

They were quoted not too many years back about believing in confiscatory estate taxes. They believed at the time that they should be very high.


Interesting. Didn’t know that.

368 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:05:31pm

re: #337 IslandLibertarian

I have a Leftist friend who believes that ALL property should be turned over to the state when the owner dies rather than being given to the heirs.
Funny kind of craziness!

The easy way around that is to give it to your heirs right before you die.

Of course, if they die before you do, then you have a problem.

369 Truck Monkey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:06:18pm

re: #354 SanFranciscoZionist

Bill and Melinda, I think, just plan to leave their money to charity rather than the kids, which is a bit different—they have the option. Or do they actually believe it should be mandatory?

Found it.
[Link: www.usatoday.com…]
I see Buffet and the Rockerfellers were named as well.

370 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:06:25pm

re: #361 callahan23

Oh shugs you found me out. Today I have a lazy typing hand. Is why I was lurking ‘n dinging. Otherwise I am fine beyond the usual work stress.
How are you my dear. Hope today finds you well.

Thanks, hon, I’m fine. I do a lot of lurking and dinging, too, usually when I’m so late to a thread, everything has already been said.

371 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:07:17pm

re: #363 doppelganglander
Not to shabby today. We’ll see how I feel tomorrow. That is day one of the regime. Of course one of my meaning well but fucked up neighbors has trashed the community irrigation pump and between tonight and noon tomorrow I have to get it unhooked and down to the pump shop. People who are not mechanical should leave mechanical things alone!

372 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:07:27pm
373 jackflash  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:09:09pm

re: #310 buzzsawmonkey

“Copyrights last for the artist’s life plus 70 years, ignoramus.

Interesting, isn’t it? Every other form of property lasts forever—but copyrights disappear into the ether about the time the grandkids are gearing up for college.

Which means you’ve only got a limited time to make money off your work—or to compensate your starving kids for having had the bad taste to be born into a creative family. ‘Cause I got news for you, boob—you can sometimes make a killing in the creative arts, but it’s hard as hell to make a living.”

I’ve added emphasis here to make a point. Apparently both you and Dianna are incapable of presenting your positions without name-calling. I haven’t run into this sort of dialog since high school.

And if you’re having such a hard time making a living as a writer (and I can see that you have a long way to go), why are you reproducing those starving kids in the first place?

Try to be more responsible and learn to write better. That’s all.

One more marginally interesting point: The analogies to home building confuse me. My house was built by some company in about 1960. Someone bought it then, borrowing money from the bank to pay the builder for his costs, including land, materials, labor, and the creative design of the building. I bought it from them, paying off a similar mortage. In no way does the original builder have any claim to a payment from me! If I buy an original work of art from one of the local artists I bump into from time to time, I write a check, take it home, put it on the wall and enjoy. That’s it - the artist had better not come by and, showing me a picture of his starving kids, ask for some sort of royalty.

That’s all. Back to work. JF

374 avanti  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:09:34pm

re: #131 Nevergiveup

Well that was a joke mostly. The fighters that the E-2 directs to the action tend to take care of “Mom”.

I like that idea of a pass on better. :)

375 callahan23  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:10:29pm

re: #372 buzzsawmonkey

The Lazy Typing Hand Internet Ranch?

I like it.

LTHLL —-> The Lazy Typing Hand Lurking Lizard

376 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:10:54pm
377 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:11:28pm

Oh fer cryin’ out loud. The Generals are disgusted that the tallyban used their prisoner for propaganda. Of course they used the kid, they aren’t signatories nor participants in any rules of war of any kind. I’m disgusted with the Generals for even saying they’re disgusted or disappointed.

378 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:11:55pm

re: #375 callahan23

LTHLL —-> The Lazy Typing Hand Lurking Lizard

I know where Buzz is going with this. He is going to suggest that you get that “LTHLL” hot branded on your derriere.

379 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:11:58pm

One more marginally interesting point: The analogies to home building confuse me. My house was built by some company in about 1960. Someone bought it then, borrowing money from the bank to pay the builder for his costs, including land, materials, labor, and the creative design of the building. I bought it from them, paying off a similar mortage. In no way does the original builder have any claim to a payment from me! If I buy an original work of art from one of the local artists I bump into from time to time, I write a check, take it home, put it on the wall and enjoy. That’s it - the artist had better not come by and, showing me a picture of his starving kids, ask for some sort of royalty.


—Are you suggesting there should only be one copy of a book at any time? One production of a play?

Is it my turn for Harry Potter 7 yet? No? I’m still 34,578,902 on the list? Sigh.

Has it occurred to you that if we stop paying creative people from making the effort to take what is in their heads and make it available to everyone, they might just stop doing it?

That’s all. Back to work. JF

380 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:12:27pm

re: #371 pingjockey

Give ‘em hell, Ping! Be well!

381 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:12:51pm

re: #373 jackflash

Would you want this logic running your company. You actually get paid to work somewhere? I want your money. Send it to me, why should you benefit from it?

382 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:13:14pm
383 TedStriker  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:13:26pm

re: #373 jackflash

“Copyrights last for the artist’s life plus 70 years, ignoramus.

Interesting, isn’t it? Every other form of property lasts forever—but copyrights disappear into the ether about the time the grandkids are gearing up for college.

Which means you’ve only got a limited time to make money off your work—or to compensate your starving kids for having had the bad taste to be born into a creative family. ‘Cause I got news for you, boob—you can sometimes make a killing in the creative arts, but it’s hard as hell to make a living.”

I’ve added emphasis here to make a point. Apparently both you and Dianna are incapable of presenting your positions without name-calling. I haven’t run into this sort of dialog since high school.

And if you’re having such a hard time making a living as a writer (and I can see that you have a long way to go), why are you reproducing those starving kids in the first place?

Try to be more responsible and learn to write better. That’s all.

One more marginally interesting point: The analogies to home building confuse me. My house was built by some company in about 1960. Someone bought it then, borrowing money from the bank to pay the builder for his costs, including land, materials, labor, and the creative design of the building. I bought it from them, paying off a similar mortage. In no way does the original builder have any claim to a payment from me! If I buy an original work of art from one of the local artists I bump into from time to time, I write a check, take it home, put it on the wall and enjoy. That’s it - the artist had better not come by and, showing me a picture of his starving kids, ask for some sort of royalty.

That’s all. Back to work. JF

You’re just being a jackass at this point, jackflash.

/sod off, swampy…

384 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:14:01pm

re: #380 Floral Giraffe
Thanks much. I shall.

385 Killian Bundy  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:15:54pm

re: #377 pingjockey

Oh fer cryin’ out loud. The Generals are disgusted that the tallyban used their prisoner for propaganda. Of course they used the kid, they aren’t signatories nor participants in any rules of war of any kind. I’m disgusted with the Generals for even saying they’re disgusted or disappointed.

Exclusive: Missing U.S. Soldier May Be in Pakistan

/maybe wandering off the base wasn’t such a good idea after all

386 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:16:10pm

re: #310 buzzsawmonkey

Copyrights last for the artist’s life plus 70 years, ignoramus.

Interesting, isn’t it? Every other form of property lasts forever—but copyrights disappear into the ether about the time the grandkids are gearing up for college.

Which means you’ve only got a limited time to make money off your work—or to compensate your starving kids for having had the bad taste to be born into a creative family. ‘Cause I got news for you, boob—you can sometimes make a killing in the creative arts, but it’s hard as hell to make a living.

Happy Birthday to you is under copyright until 2030.

387 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:16:27pm
388 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:16:30pm

re: #373 jackflash

I really can’t wait till you wander back here again…And trust me pal..I really can’t wait…Have a nice day at work…

389 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:16:47pm

re: #379 EmmmieG

—Are you suggesting there should only be one copy of a book at any time?

In my library, there is one copy of any book I have. And I can turn around and sell any of them for any price I can get for them. Not being a publisher, I don’t have to pay any royalties on any of them.

First-sale doctrine

390 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:16:57pm

re: #373 jackflash

Then you’ve probably never heard the term “work for hire.” As I said, I write for a living. My contract for each project creates a work for hire arrangement. I get paid, and I no longer own any rights to that work. I have freely and voluntarily sold my rights. This is much more similar to your analogy of a house being sold multiple times. The builder has no further rights because HE SOLD THE HOUSE.

However, if a writer holds on to the copyright, he can sell as many copies of his work as he is able and still make money because he still owns the work. To continue the house analogy, the architect may still own the rights to the plan, and he is free to sell copies of that blueprint no matter how many houses have been built from it.

391 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:17:14pm
392 avanti  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:17:14pm

BTW, thanks for all the E2 aircraft poop, I stepped outside to do some work, but just read all the comments. Great group of knowledgeable folks on here.

393 callahan23  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:17:26pm

re: #378 A Kiwi Infidel

I know where Buzz is going with this. He is going to suggest that you get that “LTHLL” hot branded on your derriere.

Ouch, I am certainly not going there. I hate all manner of pain. I have no piercing nor any tattoos. I hate going to the dentist and even cold water (i.e. lake water) pains me.
And branding is only good for livestock. I worked in agriculture and know the procedure - *shudder*

394 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:17:52pm

re: #371 pingjockey

Not to shabby today. We’ll see how I feel tomorrow. That is day one of the regime. Of course one of my meaning well but fucked up neighbors has trashed the community irrigation pump and between tonight and noon tomorrow I have to get it unhooked and down to the pump shop. People who are not mechanical should leave mechanical things alone!

I’ll be thinking about you.

395 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:18:46pm
396 Wendya  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:18:56pm

re: #337 IslandLibertarian

I have a Leftist friend who believes that ALL property should be turned over to the state when the owner dies rather than being given to the heirs.
Funny kind of craziness!

That’s not an uncommon suggestion among “progressives”. They claim the heirs didn’t work for it so they have no right to it.

397 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:20:27pm

re: #396 Wendya

That’s not an uncommon suggestion among “progressives”. They claim the heirs didn’t work for it so they have no right to it.

Leading to the question, what right does anyone else have to it, either?

(Let’s just be like the Celts and the Egyptians, and have it buried with us.)

398 Last Mohican  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:20:32pm

re: #379 EmmmieG

Are you suggesting there should only be one copy of a book at any time? One production of a play?

Is it my turn for Harry Potter 7 yet? No? I’m still 34,578,902 on the list? Sigh.

Thanks to your comment, I think I now understand the Jackflashian approach to intellectual property. There’s only one copy of each book, and the author is allowed to sell the rights to borrow it for a while and read it. The right to read something popular like Harry Potter 7 might cost, say, $200,000. A sum which, upon being deposited in J.K. Rowling’s checking account, would make her eligible to reproduce. Though her children would still be guilty of having the bad taste to be born into a creative family, the little bastards.

399 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:21:37pm

re: #390 doppelganglander

However, if a writer holds on to the copyright, he can sell as many copies of his work as he is able and still make money because he still owns the work.

However, if I as a private citizen buy ten copies of a book at $15.00 apiece, and then sell them for $20.00 apiece, I do not owe the author(s) any royalties.

400 Last Mohican  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:21:41pm

re: #391 buzzsawmonkey

And…?

And I’m apparently in a lot of trouble.

Excuse me while I go write about a thousand checks.

401 tradewind  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:22:13pm

re: #50 Dianna

Ahem


Typo.
Sorry, just didn’t feel like adding to the post load to correct it, but I knew someone would.

402 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:22:23pm
403 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:22:26pm

re: #400 Last Mohican

And I’m apparently in a lot of trouble.

Excuse me while I go write about a thousand checks.

[Hand up]

404 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:23:04pm

BBIAB!

405 ihateronpaul  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:23:25pm

I think the real problem is that this is a raping of the idea of public property. Seriously. And yet the conservatives always support DRM because it reinforces intellectual property. We need a more real-world copyright policy where people get the right to their own public property. What if you bought a book that was then banned by the government. Should the government have the right to take your book? This is the same bullshit behind eminent domain, and I’m against it.

406 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:23:53pm

re: #396 Wendya

That’s not an uncommon suggestion among “progressives”. They claim the heirs didn’t work for it so they have no right to it.

But if the deceased said “let them earn their own wealth,” then so be it. Hank Reardon, anyone?

407 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:24:03pm

BBIAW

408 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:24:13pm
409 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:24:33pm

re: #373 jackflash

I bet it’s IQ is 167

410 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:25:20pm
411 tradewind  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:26:21pm

re: #114 avanti

Kudos to the ensign.
Are props intrinsically safer than jets? Depends on the conditions, whether carrier based or land.
There are all sizes and kinds of AWACS, you can tell ‘em by the weird saucer on their backs.

412 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:26:37pm

re: #396 Wendya

That’s not an uncommon suggestion among “progressives”. They claim the heirs didn’t work for it so they have no right to it.

Those progressives have probably never worked for anything in their lives either.

413 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:26:42pm

re: #399 victor_yugo

However, if I as a private citizen buy ten copies of a book at $15.00 apiece, and then sell them for $20.00 apiece, I do not owe the author(s) any royalties.

That is selling the product..Not the intellectual rights to the product…
Our Company will sell you just about anything you want from our product line..If you want to turn around and resell it great..In fact we encourage it..
You can sell one of our plasma TV’s for as much as you want.. You don’t get intellectual rights to how we make them…

414 Killian Bundy  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:26:44pm

re: #410 buzzsawmonkey

I don’t know what “DRM” is

/Digital rights management

415 jackflash  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:27:42pm

re: #379 EmmmieG

“—Are you suggesting there should only be one copy of a book at any time? One production of a play?

Is it my turn for Harry Potter 7 yet? No? I’m still 34,578,902 on the list? Sigh.

Has it occurred to you that if we stop paying creative people from making the effort to take what is in their heads and make it available to everyone, they might just stop doing it?”

I’m not suggesting that at all. I understand that the creative content of the book is difficult to quantify and that payment to the creator must be done with some sort of copyright/royalty system. My only point (about fifteen feet up there, on my screen) is that the time for these payments are absurdly long. And it’s even more absurd to give the non-producing heirs continued payments.

I was also trying to point out that using housing or any produced good, which can in fact be quantified, seen or held, as an analogy to the present issue, is not legitimate. A poem or song, for example, have many characteristics of what economists call a “public good,” such as a lighthouse which, if it operates at all, can be used by all ships without constraint. Such goods cannot be priced efficiently in the market and must use artificial constructs like copyright to ensure their continued production. JF

416 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:28:02pm

re: #405 ihateronpaul

And yet the conservatives always support DRM because it reinforces intellectual property.

That’s a mighty broad brush there.

Should the government have the right to take your book? This is the same bullshit behind eminent domain, and I’m against it.

That’s the final clause of the Fifth Amendment, the Takings Clause: “nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.” Believe me, we needed that where I live, to build a four-lane highway to carry the traffic that was, quite literally, killing too many people on a two-lane road. That eminent domain was exercised very much “for public use.”

417 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:28:09pm
418 tradewind  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:28:26pm

re: #396 Wendya

I’d love to see a quick show of Kennedy hands on that one…

419 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:28:27pm

re: #391 buzzsawmonkey

And…?

Then you can put all the home movies of your kids’ birthdays on YouTube and they won’t be pulled for copyright Violation.

420 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:28:47pm

re: #410 buzzsawmonkey

I don’t know what “DRM” is, and I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Would you care to explain?

Digital rights management…The future of copywrite protection my friend

421 Last Mohican  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:30:24pm

OT: The Obama administration has apparently done something right.

US installing radiation detectors at Pakistan ports

The United States is installing radiation detectors at Pakistani ports to check proliferation of nuclear material and weapons of mass destruction to and from the country, a top US official on nuclear security has said.
422 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:30:26pm
423 haakondahl  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:31:09pm

re: #337 IslandLibertarian

I have a Leftist friend who believes that ALL property should be turned over to the state when the owner dies rather than being given to the heirs.
Funny kind of craziness!

I bet this friend wears a bib to an IRS audit.

424 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:32:44pm
425 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:33:03pm

re: #423 haakondahl

I bet this friend wears a bib to an IRS audit.

I get your point, but that is an amusing mental image. Maybe I’ll do that, just to shake them up. Take in some hot wings and munch on them while the auditor is going over my books…

426 Wendya  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:33:27pm

re: #410 buzzsawmonkey

I don’t know what “DRM” is, and I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Would you care to explain?

Digital Rights management.

427 haakondahl  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:33:30pm

re: #411 tradewind

Kudos to the ensign.
Are props intrinsically safer than jets? Depends on the conditions, whether carrier based or land.
There are all sizes and kinds of AWACS, you can tell ‘em by the weird saucer on their backs.

There are three, and only two are American.

428 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:34:34pm

re: #424 buzzsawmonkey

Here’s something to think about; it guarantees the rightsholder an income, which enables the rightsholder to lower his/her price for access. And if it is applied to works in the public domain…well, there’s a problem, but here’s another one; if you don’t pay for works, nobody has any interest in preserving them, and the public domain becomes useless.

But if they’re forced onto my own works, without my permission, then I have a problem with it. A big problem.

429 haakondahl  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:35:05pm

re: #425 victor_yugo

I get your point, but that is an amusing mental image. Maybe I’ll do that, just to shake them up. Take in some hot wings and munch on them while the auditor is going over my books…

Or show up with a plunger and a taco shell, and ask if the auditor would rather work or reap the reward.

430 jackflash  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:35:35pm

re: #381 Walter L. Newton
“Would you want this logic running your company. You actually get paid to work somewhere? I want your money. Send it to me, why should you benefit from it?”

My company already uses “this logic,” and I make a fine living, thank you. I create things and solve problems that help other people. I don’t sit around waiting for some royalty check for something I wrote 40 years ago. Free money would be nice, but I work instead.

431 Stuart Leviton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:36:26pm

re: #174 nikis-knight

If that is so, how does deleting items free up memory?


Great question. You’re either a geek or a genius. I am curious how you figured to ask that question. I am serious!

Your question points out why the computer needs carefully keep track of all of its memory. So there is a list (yes, another Rolodex) of memory addresses which are available for your new file. When you delete a file, the address is placed on this second Rolodex. The file itself is not written over. Instead, the computer pretends the anything in the location is just a random bunch of zeros and ones.

When you want to write new stuff to your computer, the computer grabs enough memory from this second Rolodex - geeks refer to it as “the heap” - and then the computer writes the new information into this allocated memory. It is at this point that the memory is finally modified.

What does this mean for the student who stored his notes on kindle? It means that if he continues to use kindle, the chances increase that he will overwrite his notes. So he should turn off his kindle and send his kindle to a file recovery geek.

Your question pointed out something called a “memory leak”. A memory leak occurs when the list containing available memory is not properly maintained.
It is as though the computer had sprung a leak. You can read more about dynamic memory allocation, memory leaks at Wikipedia. I hope that what I wrote makes sense.

432 Wendya  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:36:29pm

re: #430 jackflash

Free money would be nice, but I work instead.

Free money?

Get the fuck out of here.

433 Silvergirl  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:36:32pm

I posted the CNET article link this morning under Techology. I’m glad the story is reaching more now. It just had a few clicks last time I looked. The Big Brother stuff was getting a little silly.

434 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:36:51pm

re: #424 buzzsawmonkey

Yes…”fared use,” as I once heard it referred to. I know it puts some people’s backs up, but I haven’t ever heard a coherent explanation why.

Here’s something to think about; it guarantees the rightsholder an income, which enables the rightsholder to lower his/her price for access. And if it is applied to works in the public domain…well, there’s a problem, but here’s another one; if you don’t pay for works, nobody has any interest in preserving them, and the public domain becomes useless.

I hear ya…Our Company has a Google search box on our Intranet site…
Every memo I have ever written is stored there…It’s kind of cool…

435 callahan23  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:37:05pm

re: #412 doppelganglander

Those progressives have probably never worked for anything in their lives either.

Usually they’ve inherited themselves. If not great wealth then they’ve inherited to be connected to the right people to get a position or job that let them them live in comfort.
It is very easy to be endowed like that and then spewing liberal / socialist crap. Very many of the so-called middle-class here in Old Europe do fit this mould perfectly.

436 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:37:57pm
437 tradewind  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:38:21pm

re: #427 haakondahl

If you want to say there are three classifications, fine. There are at least a dozen different models and versions… I’ve seen many more than three different aircraft equipped with awacs, at airports and bases all over the world.

438 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:38:39pm
439 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:41:07pm

re: #432 Wendya

Free money?

Get the fuck out of here.

If Disney Corp. and Warner Brothers and MGM and and and… would have their way, they’d still be getting royalties on every copy of Steamboat Willy and every copy of Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs and every Buster Keaton silent movie and every black-and-white Popeye cartoon that gets put to DVD, long after any “work” had gone into them. If that wouldn’t be “free money,” I don’t know what would be.

440 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:41:34pm

re: #436 buzzsawmonkey

Say wha’?

I was referring to DRM.

441 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:42:35pm
442 haakondahl  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:42:55pm

re: #424 buzzsawmonkey

Yes…”fared use,” as I once heard it referred to. I know it puts some people’s backs up, but I haven’t ever heard a coherent explanation why.

Here’s something to think about; it guarantees the rightsholder an income, which enables the rightsholder to lower his/her price for access. And if it is applied to works in the public domain…well, there’s a problem, but here’s another one; if you don’t pay for works, nobody has any interest in preserving them, and the public domain becomes useless.

That’s “Fair Use”, which is actually the principle that we each get to use parts of copyrighted works in our own writing, so long as that use is limited, germane, and indispensable.

I greatly dislike DRM schemes because something necessary *on the way* to those schemes is for me to lose a great deal of control over my computer. Microsoft’s “Trusted Computing initiative” is marketed as some sort of virus protection business, but it’s DRM and it works like a scheme to replace all of the plumbing in your house with living intestines, so that every damned inch of it must come from the same source, or the whole thing collapses. These idiots will drive Linux into prominence, bless their black little hearts, and they’re ging to be oblivious until that tipping point where one more blunder like Office 2007 or Windows Vista pegs the BS-meters on a generation of IT folks and the bosses who just once in a while, take the recommendations offered.

443 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:44:29pm

re: #440 victor_yugo

I was referring to DRM.

We use Sharepoint across the GWAN to control document sharing..Radius determines your permissions and sharepoint allows access…

444 jackflash  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:46:08pm

re: #438 buzzsawmonkey

“Ever notice how it’s always the real clowns who say they’re leaving, and don’t?”

Finally an excellent point. This clown has to get back to that memo he’s struggling with and get it done. Sorry for the misdirection. Bye.

445 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:46:26pm

re: #442 haakondahl

God I love a good IT rant every so often…

446 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:46:32pm
447 haakondahl  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:47:32pm

re: #430 jackflash

“Would you want this logic running your company. You actually get paid to work somewhere? I want your money. Send it to me, why should you benefit from it?”

My company already uses “this logic,” and I make a fine living, thank you. I create things and solve problems that help other people. I don’t sit around waiting for some royalty check for something I wrote 40 years ago. Free money would be nice, but I work instead.

So I take it that you have submitted, but not been published, to put it delicately?

You have a paycheck because somebody else took a risk with his future and started a company. An author has a paycheck because he took a risk with his own future, and started to write.

If you think that’s a good deal, and you think you have what it takes, then Man Up. If not, then shut up.

448 doppelganglander  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:48:45pm

re: #435 callahan23

Usually they’ve inherited themselves. If not great wealth then they’ve inherited to be connected to the right people to get a position or job that let them them live in comfort.
It is very easy to be endowed like that and then spewing liberal / socialist crap. Very many of the so-called middle-class here in Old Europe do fit this mould perfectly.

Sort of like our trustafarians. It’s hard to overestimate the importance of connections. My daughter recently started her first job in D.C. She got it purely through her own efforts, as we are very obscure and uninfluential people. It would have been nice if we could have called up Dad’s old Yale roommate who’s a bigwig on the Hill, but we don’t know anyone important. Luckily she had a professor that took an interest in her and wrote sterling recommendations for her internships. He knows some people and that has helped her.

449 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:49:09pm

re: #441 buzzsawmonkey

Yes, but I wasn’t understanding quite what sort of application of it you were referring to.

Appropriate DRM (whatever that means) is one thing. But requiring that I apply DRM to my own creations before I’m allowed to publish them on the Internet… in other words, forcing me to assert copyright, whether I want to or not… may be some publishers’ wet dream, but it denies me the freedom to do with my own labor as I will.

As for Microsoft and Apple (and Adobe, for that matter), they are requiring my trust that they won’t abuse their DRM on my works. And when they require my trust, is when they lose it.

450 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:49:17pm
451 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:50:13pm

Charles -

Amazon WAS right to eliminate titles PROSPECTIVELY that they did NOT have the rights to. The real question is whether they had the right, RETROSPECTIVELY to delete files of good faith buyers. That they offered refunds is in their favor. The rest will be decided by the Courts. Time will tell and precedent will be made. That is all.

-S- (Former Pirate of Music prior to Phonogram)

452 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:51:09pm
453 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:52:10pm

re: #446 buzzsawmonkey

I have no problem with that, as long as

a) they are within the copyright term, and

b) they are available.

The second is the rub. Not easy to find Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarves today, and Song of the South is almost down the memory hole.

Coal Black can be found on CollegeHumor. And I can, within fifteen minutes, put my hands on Song of the South.

454 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:53:15pm
455 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:53:40pm

re: #446 buzzsawmonkey

buzzsawmonkey -

And we got “BRAG MUSIC” - Two Kids on the Corner Bragging About WHO Was Bigger, Stronger, Tougher - Lots of Words and Little Music. That is all.

-S-

456 callahan23  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:54:42pm

re: #448 doppelganglander

Sort of like our trustafarians. It’s hard to overestimate the importance of connections. My daughter recently started her first job in D.C. She got it purely through her own efforts, as we are very obscure and uninfluential people. It would have been nice if we could have called up Dad’s old Yale roommate who’s a bigwig on the Hill, but we don’t know anyone important. Luckily she had a professor that took an interest in her and wrote sterling recommendations for her internships. He knows some people and that has helped her.

You are a lucky people, you and your family to have one another. I myself was also never able to draw on some connections, thus my career never really happened. This country is really not a meritocracy. IMHO

457 Silvergirl  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:57:28pm

re: #7 rwmofo

This doesn’t explain what happened to my other sock.

“I go to the laundromat to do a wash. Included in the wash are 8 pairs of socks. Out of the wash come 6 pairs of socks plus 1 gray sock and 1 blue sock. A week later I go to the laundromat to do a wash. Included in the wash are 6 pairs of socks. Out of the wash come 4 pairs of socks plus 1 black sock and 1 green sock. A week later I go to the laundromat to do a wash. Included in the wash are 4 pairs of socks. Out of the wash come 2 pairs of socks. The other socks never show up. The next day I go to the laundromat. As an experiment I put in nothing but my last 2 pairs of socks. Out of the wash comes a body stocking. In the body stocking I find a note. The note says: ‘Quit trifling with the laws of nature and bring the machine more socks.’”

—Jules Feiffer

458 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 4:57:50pm

re: #449 victor_yugo

Oh my friend..That would be to mischaracterize DRM…It’s a complex evolving technology…
Let’s just say you are a College kid ripping off my memo’s on Network infrastructure.. You are so f*cked…When you publish..you are checked out…That’s DRM…A safe haven…

459 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:00:44pm

re: #456 callahan23

callahan23 -

Being a “Poor Relative” of established, influential folks doesn’t help either. Been there, done that. Taught me one thing - effectively “God Bless the Child Thats Got His Own.”
Had I learned that earlier, I might have gotten further, faster. Too much to discuss here. Make that all.

-S-

460 haakondahl  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:02:09pm

re: #450 buzzsawmonkey

“Fair use” is a defense against an accusation of infringement; basically, it means that if you are accused of infringement and can prove that your infringement is for one or another limited social good (education, commentary, parody) you are permitted to get away with it.

In other words, it’s not a principle that “you get to use” something—it’s an invisible hand holding the Sword of Damocles in abeyance.

Are you telling me what I can and cannot do again? :-)

461 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:03:42pm

re: #458 HoosierHoops

Oh my friend..That would be to mischaracterize DRM…It’s a complex evolving technology…
Let’s just say you are a College kid ripping off my memo’s on Network infrastructure.. You are so f*cked…When you publish..you are checked out…That’s DRM…A safe haven…

The assumption of pervasive DRM is that I am a college kid ripping off someone else’s work. Whence Media Sentry. After all, everyone’s a criminal, and if we fish long enough, we can catch one, right?

And if DRM is that complex and evolving, how can someone defend against an implementation bug that results in a spurious accusation?

462 haakondahl  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:06:41pm

Well, this database is kicking my butt, and the sun is almost up—time for bed.

463 rightymouse  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:07:45pm

re: #450 buzzsawmonkey

“Fair use” is a defense against an accusation of infringement; basically, it means that if you are accused of infringement and can prove that your infringement is for one or another limited social good (education, commentary, parody) you are permitted to get away with it.

In other words, it’s not a principle that “you get to use” something—it’s an invisible hand holding the Sword of Damocles in abeyance.

In my job, I work closely with corporate attorneys to guard our intellectual property and yes, ‘fair use’ is used for defense typically by those violating our trademarks even when it’s clear that they wish to create market confusion.

464 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:07:58pm

re: #460 haakondahl

haakondahl -

Effectively “legalized theft” of intellectual property so long as it is NOT a straight re-sell. The current state of the law HAS accepted that. And as a former Pirate, I think I know whereof I speak.

-S-

465 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:11:10pm

re: #452 buzzsawmonkey

Maybe I’m still tooling around in the horse and buggy, but who’s requiring you to apply DRM to your own creations regardless of your wishes?

The RIAA and the MPAA would like nothing more. The only thing stopping Microsoft, Adobe, and Apple from implementing it on the OS level, is that there would be massive hell to pay from end users, esp. freelance artists.

Here’s what happens when DRM goes wrong. When Yahoo!’s music download (DRM-based) got shut down, the files that people had downloaded were no longer playable. At least they had the decency to let people download the DRM-free versions of the songs they had purchased.

466 Wendya  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:11:18pm

re: #439 victor_yugo

If Disney Corp. and Warner Brothers and MGM and and and… would have their way, they’d still be getting royalties on every copy of Steamboat Willy and every copy of Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs and every Buster Keaton silent movie and every black-and-white Popeye cartoon that gets put to DVD, long after any “work” had gone into them. If that wouldn’t be “free money,” I don’t know what would be.

He was begrudging Walter the “privilege” of earning money from his works within his lifetime.

467 ShanghaiEd  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:11:46pm

re: #217 Mad Al-Jaffee

I have to share a really stupid t-shirt I saw today:

I (heart) Michelle Obama

And that’s “stupid,” how?

She’s a role model for millions of young women.

468 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:14:06pm

re: #461 victor_yugo

The assumption of pervasive DRM is that I am a college kid ripping off someone else’s work. Whence Media Sentry. After all, everyone’s a criminal, and if we fish long enough, we can catch one, right?

And if DRM is that complex and evolving, how can someone defend against an implementation bug that results in a spurious accusation?

point 1. DRM was never built on the assumption of a college kid ripping off previous work…I gave that example..not the best example… But really DRM was created to protect intellectual rights…
point 2 docs are locked down…How many spurious accusations have been leveled against DRM documents? None that I know of…
Kind regards my friend

469 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:14:32pm
470 Joshua Cohen  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:18:16pm

BTW: Cannot sleep this night. I am still moved from the wreath ceremony at the former KZ Mittelbau Dora, the underground factory of the V2 Rocket and home and workplace of Wernher von Braun, the later chief engineer of the Saturn 5 Moon-Rocket.

Rocketsience and the way to space cost a lot of unnecessary lifes.

471 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:19:30pm

re: #470 Joshua Cohen

BTW: Cannot sleep this night. I am still moved from the wreath ceremony at the former KZ Mittelbau Dora, the underground factory of the V2 Rocket and home and workplace of Wernher von Braun, the later chief engineer of the Saturn 5 Moon-Rocket.

Rocketsience and the way to space cost a lot of unnecessary lifes.

Josh..Did you every see the movie October Sky?

472 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:19:32pm

re: #466 Wendya

He was begrudging Walter the “privilege” of earning money from his works within his lifetime.

Agreed. I was using that as a jumping-point to something else:

After Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad, the company is a person and has “rights” that continue as long as the company exists. But in the realm of copyright, the term is supposed to be the creator’s life plus 70 years. If Charles Dickens had signed over all rights to “A Christmas Carol” to Chapman & Hall in 1843, would The Thomson Corporation as successors in interest still be owners of “A Christmas Carol”? After all, the “corporate person” would still be “alive,” after a fashion.

473 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:19:58pm

re: #465 victor_yugo

victor_yugo -

Amen - when someone BUYS - i.e. actually spends hard earned money, in good faith to own the RIGHT to OWN, for Personal, Reasonable, Legal Use, COPYRIGHTED Material the Individual Buyer SHOULD be Legally Protected on the basis of being a GOOD FAITH BUYER. That is all.

-S-

474 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:21:29pm

re: #471 HoosierHoops

Josh..Did you every see the movie October Sky?

Fantastic movie. My mother remembers the original news stories. That was big news in the West Virginia hollers.

475 Joshua Cohen  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:22:00pm

re: #471 HoosierHoops

Josh..Did you every see the movie October Sky?

No - but I checked its content and can not find a point.

476 ShanghaiEd  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:24:46pm

re: #469 buzzsawmonkey

How?

Why?

For what?

First black First Lady of the United States, buzz. That’s an achievement. You might not like her, but lots of people do. She seems to be a good mom. And a lot of people who disagree with her politics still admire her achievement. And there’s certainly nothing “stupid” about it.This is America, right? Live and let live?

477 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:24:47pm

re: #473 Dr. Shalit

Amend and Extend -

RIGHT to OWN is amended to Right of USE - effectively a EULA for that material. Semantics for sure, and I am the last Person in the world to be Anti-Semantic considering who I am and where I come from.

-S-

478 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:24:55pm

re: #475 Joshua Cohen

No - but I checked its content and can not find a point.

The point is this: No astronaut signs on without knowing that the rocket is just a slowly-exploding bomb pushing up into the sky.

Contrast the astronauts with the whiny-ass pansies who tried to bail on their sworn oaths during Operation Desert Shield/Storm.

479 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:25:16pm

re: #475 Joshua Cohen

No - but I checked its content and can not find a point.

Josh..Check it out…A true story…Boy falls in love with Rockets and eventual ends up working for NASA fulfilling his lifelong dream..
The movie is inspiring as a coming of age movie for a young boy…
you would enjoy it

480 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:26:24pm

re: #476 ShanghaiEd

She seems to be a good mom.

How does a “good mom” teach her kids that their free country is nothing but shameful?

I shudder to think of what her kids’ therapy bills will be like.

481 haakondahl  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:26:42pm

re: #463 rightymouse

In my job, I work closely with corporate attorneys to guard our intellectual property and yes, ‘fair use’ is used for defense typically by those violating our trademarks even when it’s clear that they wish to create market confusion.

re: #464 Dr. Shalit

haakondahl -

Effectively “legalized theft” of intellectual property so long as it is NOT a straight re-sell. The current state of the law HAS accepted that. And as a former Pirate, I think I know whereof I speak.

-S-

You see how much easier it is for us to correspond when i get to quote you? Now if I squirrel away several days of your posts and publish them as my own, we’ll have a problem. But without this fair-use-style inclusion of relevent material, conversation would be very difficult.
The analogy is imperfect, but fair use is an indispensable part of public discourse, and therefore a pillar of our Republic. Free speech is usually cited in pornography cases, but the serious application is for political speech. Fair use is widely abused, but that does not corrupt its purpose or invalidate its existence.

482 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:26:52pm
483 Lincolntf  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:27:43pm

I don’t have a Kindle yet, but I do know that Kindle and Amazon are essentially one in the same. If you buy something through your Kindle, shouldn’t you be able to assume that you own it? Did Amazon defraud you if they take it back?
Yet another reason to wait for the third or fourth iteration.

484 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:28:37pm

re: #481 haakondahl

Free speech is usually cited in pornography cases, but the serious application is for political speech.

Precisely. Free Speech means I am allowed to express disagreement with my government, without being thrown in jail. Nothing more.

485 Joshua Cohen  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:30:46pm

re: #479 HoosierHoops

Josh..Check it out…A true story…Boy falls in love with Rockets and eventual ends up working for NASA fulfilling his lifelong dream..
The movie is inspiring as a coming of age movie for a young boy…
you would enjoy it

Other True Story:

In November 1937 (other sources: December 1, 1932), von Braun joined the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP). An Office of Military Government, United States document dated April 23, 1947, states that von Braun joined the Waffen-SS (Schutzstaffel) horseback riding school in 1933, then the National Socialist Party on May 1, 1937, and became an officer in the Waffen-SS from May 1940 until the end of the war.

On August 15, 1944, von Braun wrote a letter to Albin Sawatzki, manager of the V-2 production, admitting that he personally picked labor slaves from the Buchenwald concentration camp, who, he admitted 25 years later in an interview, had been in a “pitiful shape”.

486 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:32:04pm

re: #476 ShanghaiEd

Shanghai Ed -

THE OBAMAS seem to be Model Parents. I give them that. BOTH were born into “Challenged Families” BOTH are unwilling to let that be the future of THEIR Children. Kudos to them on this point. I only wish that Administration Policy would allow that for OTHER chidlren of “Challenged Families.” Contributions from the NEA/AFT will NOT allow that to happen - SO FAR.

-S-

487 rightymouse  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:32:32pm

re: #481 haakondahl What we ask for in cases where the companies are clearly in violation of infringement (regardless of their ‘fair use’ defense) is that they clearly attribute the registered mark(s) to us. All we ask for is that there be NO market confusion.

488 ShanghaiEd  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:36:03pm

re: #480 victor_yugo

How does a “good mom” teach her kids that their free country is nothing but shameful? I shudder to think of what her kids’ therapy bills will be like.

Sorry I brought it up. I’m not her PR person. Mad-Al said people were “stupid” for wearing a T-shirt with her name on it. Some of those people are young women who are inspired to achieve in the world, whether you like the Obamas or not. Just seems mean-spirited to me. I was always brought up to respect the President and the First Lady, whether I liked them or not. But, criticize away. I’ll sit this one out.

489 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:37:15pm

re: #481 haakondahl haakondahl - I became “Free-Source” in my “Piracy Days” - if it was Fair for Me - It is Fair for You. As to the “Fair Use” Doctrine - everything I say is subject to same, unless I copyright it first - which, to date, I Haven’t. That is all. -S-

490 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:37:53pm

re: #485 Joshua Cohen

Other True Story: In November 1937 (other sources: December 1, 1932), von Braun joined the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP). An Office of Military Government, United States document dated April 23, 1947, states that von Braun joined the Waffen-SS (Schutzstaffel) horseback riding school in 1933, then the National Socialist Party on May 1, 1937, and became an officer in the Waffen-SS from May 1940 until the end of the war. On August 15, 1944, von Braun wrote a letter to Albin Sawatzki, manager of the V-2 production, admitting that he personally picked labor slaves from the Buchenwald concentration camp, who, he admitted 25 years later in an interview, had been in a “pitiful shape”.

Scratches head…mmm Josh.. I was talking about a good movie from the book Rocket boys.. Just so you know..I hate fucking Nazi’s! Where did the lecture on Von Braun come from? I wasn’t defending him…*wink* We good?

491 ShanghaiEd  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:38:12pm

re: #482 buzzsawmonkey

Skin color + marrying an ambitious empty suit is an achievement? Who knew?

Truce, buzz? You guys go ahead and get your hate on, and I’ll move on to other subjects.

492 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:38:37pm

re: #489 Dr. Shalit

haakondahl -I became “Free-Source” in my “Piracy Days” - if it was Fair for Me - It is Fair for You. As to the “Fair Use” Doctrine - everything I say is subject to same, unless I copyright it first - which, to date, I Haven’t. That is all.-S-

After Richard Stallman’s latest misogynistic and anti-Catholic stupidity, I’m on the verge of switching to FreeBSD. I really don’t want to be associated with that fucking asshole.

493 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:39:13pm

re: #490 HoosierHoops

Just so you know..I hate fucking Nazi’s!

Especially Illinois Nazis.

494 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:43:29pm

re: #493 victor_yugo

Especially Illinois Nazis.

You know..out here in Indiana.. You can come across some crazy fucks…But generally Hoosiers have really good hearts and care about people.. I have been very impressed..Sometimes you just wish they would stop waving so much when you drive by…Overall..Great State..

495 victor_yugo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:44:57pm

re: #494 HoosierHoops

You know..out here in Indiana.. You can come across some crazy fucks…

I went to college less than twenty miles from the home of a retired Grand Wizard. Let’s just say that the college “over-compensated”.

496 Joshua Cohen  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:48:10pm

re: #490 HoosierHoops

Scratches head…mmm Josh.. I was talking about a good movie from the book Rocket boys.. Just so you know..I hate fucking Nazi’s! Where did the lecture on Von Braun come from? I wasn’t defending him…*wink* We good?

Everything is fine. I just mentioned it to make my point clear - that the people on their lifes these things where achieved must not be forgotten and that a good thing does not erase a bad one. Your movie might be a good one - but I understood it as that a great passion in the end justifies the means. And I do not think so. Esp. after standing on a hill today made from the ashes of these poor souls, beside a structure and the cover of the V2 and some of there components. And Mr. von Braun is no hero to me - even if he was celebrated from many as this (or as a genius), was a buddy of JFK and his picture is on some quarters. His hands are covered with blood as it his work, so at least the lifes it takes should be remembered forever. No offense at all, ok?

497 Joshua Cohen  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:51:17pm

re: #496 Joshua Cohen Strange format - I wrote it with paragraphs and without plenking. Never mind.

498 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:51:18pm

re: #495 victor_yugo

I went to college less than twenty miles from the home of a retired Grand Wizard.Let’s just say that the college “over-compensated”.

about 3 or 4 Sundays I posted here about hanging out at the club on a sunday with all the old golfers eating free food and drinking cheap beer… I was having a great time when all of the sudden Tiger Woods jokes went around the bar.. I was stunned..everybody laughing their asses off and the jokes kept getting dirtier…Raciest stuff… That day..Indiana…EPIC FAIL…

499 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 5:58:18pm

re: #490 HoosierHoops Hoo-Hoo - From what I understand - vonBraun was a partially repentant NAZI, and the Best “Rocket Man” that Germany produced. That WE got his services rather than the former USSR was a stroke of luck. Both we and the former USSR went for the best that defeated Germany had to offer militarily. So did other nations - Kurt Tank remained as an “Independent” aircraft designer, as did Porsche as an “Independent” automobile designer - AFTER THE FRENCH WERE DONE WITH HIM - (Dauphine/Caravelle anyone as in “RAY-NO.”) History is FULL of weird stuff in those days, the precursor of the IAF flew Czech Built Bf-109’s against British Backed Arab Nations Flying Spitfires. That war proved ONE thing - the planes were evenly matched - the PILOT and His/Her Motivation made the difference. Motivation will always make the difference, other things being close or equal - May we always KEEP ours - May “THEY” LOSE THEIRS as soon as is practicable. -S-

500 Joshua Cohen  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 6:03:57pm

And Now for Something Completely Different: Amman begins stripping state’s Palestinians of citizenship to peempt Israeli attempts to declare Jordan, where 70% of the population is Palestinian, as the true Palestinian state. [Link: www.jpost.com…]

501 LesLein  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 6:04:06pm

I had my own very positive experience with the new Kindle 2. In late May I accidentally dropped by Kindle on the floor. I told Amazon what happened. They provided a refurbished unit (a $200 value) at no charge. All I had to do was ship in the damaged unit. Since my Kindle was the first shipment, the replacement had to newer than what I purchased. Amazon has made a fan of me for life.

502 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 6:08:09pm

re: #500 Joshua Cohen

And Now for Something Completely Different:Amman begins stripping state’s Palestinians of citizenship to peempt Israeli attempts to declare Jordan, where 70% of the population is Palestinian, as the true Palestinian state.[Link: www.jpost.com…]

Joshua Cohen - The “Jordanians” remember WELL the lessons of “Black September.” Would the Israelis do the same. That is all - and MORE than enough. -S-

503 Joshua Cohen  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 6:15:05pm

re: #502 Dr. Shalit

Joshua Cohen - The “Jordanians” remember WELL the lessons of “Black September.” Would the Israelis do the same. That is all - and MORE than enough. -S-

Maybe they should remember Balfour too…

504 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 6:17:45pm

re: #501 LesLein

I had my own very positive experience with the new Kindle 2. In late May I accidentally dropped by Kindle on the floor. I told Amazon what happened. They provided a refurbished unit (a $200 value) at no charge. All I had to do was ship in the damaged unit. Since my Kindle was the first shipment, the replacement had to newer than what I purchased. Amazon has made a fan of me for life.

LesLien - Do Not Blame You - REAL Customer Service - as in lose a few bucks NOW to make MORE later is hard to find these days. For what it is worth, got a NJ Bureaucracy to rescind a $500 Fine on the basis of “Substantial Compliance” - which is to say, we filed the “old way” in 2009 rather than “e-file” - as we did so on the State of NJ’s Own Forms - a few days after the change. Still feel like a hero on that one. Let Me have my 30 seconds of Fame if you will on this one. -S-

505 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 6:25:31pm

re: #503 Joshua Cohen

Maybe they should remember Balfour too…

Joshua Cohen - Israelis certainly DO remember Balfour, AND the retreats of the UK Government from 1919 to 1939. By the Original Mandate, Israel would border Iraq - a fact few know or will acknowledge. I am more practical. I accept the PLO/Hamas meme of “The River to The Sea.” Let it belong to Eretz Yisroel until such time as other arrangements might be made - AND KEPT! -S-

506 Joshua Cohen  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 6:32:40pm

BTW: I still owe someone the story about my 9/11 (as in 9th of November 1989!) - I chose this term because the feelings I had about it are comparable to these I had on the American 9/11, even if the 1989’s ended positive, there was a lot of mortal danger in the air and also does a world came crashing in that day and changed the face of the world for ever. Please do not feel offended! I am still trying to sort my memories because this thing does not happen overnight and I am looking for the right point to begin with. Maybe the election fraud that sparked the protests would be the right choice. Just letting you know I have not forgotten the request or read it over.

507 Joshua Cohen  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 6:38:35pm

re: #505 Dr. Shalit Just for the records: Most time of the year I live in Eretz Israel ;)

508 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 6:52:33pm

re: #507 Joshua Cohen

Just for the records: Most time of the year I live in Eretz Israel ;)

Joshua Cohen - I Assume Then that You Know. Monty Python had the “Ministry of Silly Walks” - The “PA” should have the “Ministry of Ridiculously Sized Keys.” After the 1948 War approximately 800,000 Arabs AND Jews were made refugees. The Jews by and large are citizens of Israel and other Western Nations. The ARABS are STILL REFUGEES - 61 years later - with their OWN UN Bureau to sustain that Status. Tell me one thing, can my Simi’s son Simon, by her first marriage to an Israeli of Iraqi Origin reclaim his Grandparents’ Apartment in Baghdad? Probably about the time my Hunchback Brother Straightens Up - Even if He Wears a Key the size of an AL SHARPTON MEDAL. That is all. -S-

509 jackflash  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:55:34pm

re: #447 haakondahl

“So I take it that you have submitted, but not been published, to put it delicately?

You have a paycheck because somebody else took a risk with his future and started a company. An author has a paycheck because he took a risk with his own future, and started to write.

If you think that’s a good deal, and you think you have what it takes, then Man Up. If not, then shut up.”

Well, haakondahl, I’ve never submitted anything I’ve written (except to my dissertation committee) and I’ve never been rejected. I don’t make up little stories for bored housewives or airplane travelers, I analyze problems and write results in a form that others can understand and use to produce things that make people’s lives better. My analysis is purchased from my company (which I co-created, by the way) and my “royalties,” if you want to think of it this way, come in the form of repeat business and continued productivity.

I would suggest that, if you’re an author (or one of those many here who want to think of themselves that way), then “man up” your damn self and write for a company that solves real problems, Bud. JF

510 Sommerfeld  Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:34:25am

So I think the folks rushing to amazon’s defense here are misunderstanding the criticism. the main concern here is about capability, not intent.

the existance of amazon’s capability to delete the copies you bought in good faith creates a threat that they will be forced by a legal system to delete content for other reasons.

Eugene Volokh has a hypothetical relating to libel:

[Link: www.volokh.com…]

What I expect next is for a victorious UK libel tourist to turn around and sue amazon (which has a significant presence in the UK) and demand that they delete all purchased kindle copies of a work found in a UK court to be libellous.

511 BIG  Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:15:02am

I just looked at my Kindle and 1984 is gone. I am glad I had finished reading it.

512 ihateronpaul  Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:50:04am

re: #416 victor_yugo

yes, it is a broad brush. A broad, ACCURATE brush.

513 quickjustice  Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:38:15am

As a matter of copyright law, Amazon probably is liable for infringement, as is the original infringer. I think customers who paid in good faith for their copies probably are OK. It’s Amazon that must pay the copyright owner for its illicit profits. Rather than snatching the book away from customers, both Amazon and the copyright owner would have been better off in terms of reputation and money settling up with each other.

I actually licensed these books twenty years ago from the owner, Sonia Orwell, George’s widow. I don’t know if she’s still alive.

514 dogberry  Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:38:17pm

1. My copy of THE RETURN OF THE KING has a request from Tolkien:

This paperback edition, and no other, has been published with my
consent and co-operation. Those who approve of courtesy (at
least) to living authors will purchase it, and no other.”

Did his copyright expire in America at some point? Does this mean that during the fifties and/or the sixties the term of the copyright was fixed
with no reference to the life of the author?

2. If I were to buy a Kindle, should my first act after any purchase be to make a copy and secure it elsewhere? Can copies of work not
purchased from Amazon be read on a Kindle?

515 fiery celt  Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:13:12pm

I was going to purchase a Kindle —- I will no longer even consider it.

Regardless of the reason, the fact remains that this was done remotely, without notification or permission—-
Literature can be altered, changed and even censored entirely.

History and Literature can and will be rewritten.

Keep your Books.

“fiery celt”

516 haakondahl  Wed, Jul 22, 2009 12:49:48am

re: #509 jackflash

Well, haakondahl, I’ve never submitted anything I’ve written (except to my dissertation committee) and I’ve never been rejected. I don’t make up little stories for bored housewives or airplane travelers, I analyze problems and write results in a form that others can understand and use to produce things that make people’s lives better. My analysis is purchased from my company (which I co-created, by the way) and my “royalties,” if you want to think of it this way, come in the form of repeat business and continued productivity.

I would suggest that, if you’re an author (or one of those many here who want to think of themselves that way), then “man up” your damn self and write for a company that solves real problems, Bud. JF

A little busy these days.

517 Xenobyte  Thu, Jul 23, 2009 1:51:25am

I just don’t get it… They’re still selling paper versions (aka. ‘books’) of 1984?

What’s wrong with the kindle version? - The media?

So Amazon would also be banned from selling versions carved in wood or etched in a rock? - How about specific types or paper? - Recycled vs. bleached? Thickness? Binding?

Isn’t it all about the words and not the form? - It just doesn’t make any sense that I can buy a pile of paper with the words on, but not a file with exactly the same words in, as long as the author gets his royalties.


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