From the W. M. Keck Observatory on Mauna Kea in Hawaii, this infrared image shows the impact site where something huge slammed into Jupiter sometime in the last few days, with its relative size compared to Earth.
2 |
Shr_Nfr Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:08:07pm |
re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
But the photograph is certain to be a hit.
| 3 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:08:42pm |
"Honestly, officer, that planet jumped right in front of me"
| 5 |
brookly red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:09:14pm |
Nice to know that there are things the size of size of earth just flying around out there...
| 6 |
HelloDare Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:09:54pm |
I don't understand why Obama didn't stop this.
| 7 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:09:54pm |
So...do we exchange insurance information now?
| 8 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:10:21pm |
In related news, Obama has just appointed a Solar System Czar to monitor the situation on Jupiter...
| 9 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:12:18pm |
Think it made a "Whomph" sound or a "Smash-Bang" sound. Maybe it was no sound, it is space(ish); but does Jupiter's atmosphere make sound possible? Jupiter's kind of non-solid ish... so did it make any noise at all?
My head hurts.
| 10 |
Idle Drifter Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:13:09pm |
Thank God we have several gas gaint planets to take the majority of hits of objects flying through the Solar System.
| 11 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:13:30pm |
In response, President Obama has offered his apologies to the Jovian people and condemned the Bush Administration for not putting Earth in the object's path instead, promising that this would change during his watch.
| 12 |
King of the Douche, now you may bow Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:13:36pm |
Hillary just apologized to Jupiter, because the United States is to blame for the angry comet.
| 13 |
SixDegrees Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:14:26pm |
re: #5 brookly red
Nice to know that there are things the size of size of earth just flying around out there...
Just to clarify - the impact scar is roughly the size of earth. The chunk of stuff that caused it was probably about 50 to 100 miles across.
| 14 |
OldLineTexan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:14:27pm |
God did it, or hyper-advanced aliens.
/what happens to your brains on American politics
/Be of good cheer. The hyper-advanced alien party is in charge in DC.
| 15 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:15:01pm |
Dick Cheney has something to do with this! I want an investigation!
| 16 |
SixDegrees Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:16:43pm |
re: #9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Think it made a "Whomph" sound or a "Smash-Bang" sound. Maybe it was no sound, it is space(ish); but does Jupiter's atmosphere make sound possible? Jupiter's kind of non-solid ish... so did it make any noise at all?
My head hurts.
Sure, there'd be sound in Jupiter's atmosphere. At that altitude, it would be low density. And it's mostly lighter weight gases like methane, hydrogen and helium. So sounds would have a higher frequency than here on earth.
Instead of a "Womph!" it would probably sound more like a hundred billion gerbils all squeaking at once.
| 17 |
brookly red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:17:06pm |
re: #10 Idle Drifter
Thank God we have several gas gaint planets to take the majority of hits of objects flying through the Solar System.
/oh, but I heard that they home in on carbon emissions...
| 18 |
Idle Drifter Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:17:18pm |
So what are the chances our scientists will be able to tell where the object came from, its speed, etc.?
| 19 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:17:35pm |
re: #17 brookly red
/oh, but I heard that they home in on carbon emissions...
The next comet will hit Al Gore's mansion then
| 20 |
Neutral President Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:17:37pm |
"Whether they ever find life there or not, I think Jupiter should be considered an enemy planet." - Jack Handey (Deep Thoughts)
| 21 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:17:45pm |
re: #16 SixDegrees
it would probably sound more like a hundred billion gerbils all squeaking at once.
So basically like LGF on a busy day?
| 22 |
SixDegrees Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:17:48pm |
re: #15 Desert Dog
Dick Cheney has something to do with this! I want an investigation!
Rove's been playing with his Hurricane Machine again.
| 23 |
SixDegrees Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:18:17pm |
| 24 |
OldLineTexan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:18:20pm |
re: #16 SixDegrees
Sure, there'd be sound in Jupiter's atmosphere. At that altitude, it would be low density. And it's mostly lighter weight gases like methane, hydrogen and helium. So sounds would have a higher frequency than here on earth.
Instead of a "Womph!" it would probably sound more like a hundred billion gerbils all squeaking at once.
Something only heard on Folsom Street, until this.
| 25 |
mich-again Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:18:34pm |
We're lucky we have Jupiter out there pulling so many stray rocks into her gravitational field before they had the chance to drift our way. Jupiter is like Earth's bodyguard.
| 26 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:18:40pm |
re: #21 Fenway_Nation
That or Congress on an average day.
| 27 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:18:52pm |
Obama will schedule a trip to Jupiter in order to apologize for the mishap.
It is all due to the climate chaos that we created with our combustion engines and American Bovine flatulence.
| 28 |
Idle Drifter Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:19:13pm |
re: #17 brookly red
/oh, but I heard that they home in on carbon emissions...
The we just need to fire granola rockets into space to lure them off course from Earth.
| 29 |
SixDegrees Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:19:25pm |
re: #24 OldLineTexan
Something only heard on Folsom Street, until this.
Well, I'm pretty sure there's plenty of methane around there.
| 31 |
Dianna Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:19:52pm |
We couldn't get that photo yesterday evening - I think the NASA site was completely slammed.
Thank you, Charles!
| 32 |
stuck in california Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:19:52pm |
Charles, I wish you would start a blog for space nuts, separate from this one...would be fun. Yeah, like you have time...never mind...
| 33 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:20:10pm |
re: #25 mich-again
We're lucky we have Jupiter out there pulling so many stray rocks into her gravitational field before they had the chance to drift our way. Jupiter is like Earth's bodyguard.
And of course, Uranus is covering our...er...uh...back too
| 34 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:20:14pm |
"In space, no one can hear you scream."
Movie Poster - Alien
| 35 |
redshirt Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:20:25pm |
That will be Earth soon enough when Apophis hits...
| 37 |
Neutral President Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:20:51pm |
| 38 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:21:08pm |
But how do we know this was an impact? Somebody get the Hubble and start looking for black obelisks in that "scar."
| 39 |
brookly red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:21:35pm |
re: #28 Idle Drifter
The we just need to fire granola rockets into space to lure them off course from Earth.
Granola Rockets Inc., thats in Pelosie's distric, no?
| 40 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:21:42pm |
Van Jones must have been experimenting with remote viewing again.
| 41 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:22:07pm |
re: #16 SixDegrees
Would a hundred billion gerbils shrieking at once for a hundred billion years shriek out Shakespeare?
| 42 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:22:57pm |
re: #41 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Only Taming of The Shrew...
| 43 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:23:28pm |
re: #20 ArchangelMichael
Up-ding for the JH reference... and it tied in to the thread. even better.
| 45 |
Eowyn2 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:23:47pm |
re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I said "BY JOVE" not into it!
fire a warning shot across her nose.
| 48 |
Ward Cleaver Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:25:12pm |
| 49 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:25:19pm |
ANOTHER nonsensical ethics probe against Palin?
I'm really sick of this shit they keep trying to throw against her.
| 50 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:25:32pm |
| 51 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:26:18pm |
re: #44 buzzsawmonkey
But it wouldn't be very clear; it would be in gerbiled form.
but...in Iambic Pentameter!
| 52 |
Pullus Iulius Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:26:38pm |
I warned Jupiter that if it kept doing that, it'd start to get zits.
| 53 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:27:12pm |
| 55 |
Eowyn2 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:27:42pm |
Jupiter: Keeping earth protected from flying objects for billions of years.
| 57 |
Ward Cleaver Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:28:24pm |
re: #49 TheMatrix31
ANOTHER nonsensical ethics probe against Palin?
I'm really sick of this shit they keep trying to throw against her.
The ethics complaint was filed by Eagle River resident Kim Chatman shortly after the fund was created, alleging Palin was misusing her official position and accepting improper gifts.
Isn't that the same bitch that files all the other ones?
| 59 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:28:39pm |
OT - (but still scary)
Morning Bell: Obama Admits He’s “Not Familiar” With House Bill
During the call, a blogger from Maine said he kept running into an Investors Business Daily article that claimed Section 102 of the House health legislation would outlaw private insurance. He asked: “Is this true? Will people be able to keep their insurance and will insurers be able to write new policies even though H.R. 3200 is passed?” President Obama replied: “You know, I have to say that I am not familiar with the provision you are talking about.”
[Link: www.heritage.org...]
| 60 |
Ward Cleaver Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:29:20pm |
re: #58 buzzsawmonkey
On the other hand, those flying objects might just be missing us because we're so much smaller.
"Missed it by that much!"
/agent 86
| 61 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:29:35pm |
re: #59 Walter L. Newton
Not to worry. They guys voting on it don't know what the hells in it either. So, it's kind of even.
| 63 |
mrbaracuda Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:29:49pm |
re: #59 Walter L. Newton
I don't know about you guys, but I keep getting the feeling of "Obama not good for America" in my tummy.
| 64 |
Neutral President Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:30:03pm |
re: #38 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
But how do we know this was an impact? Somebody get the Hubble and start looking for black obelisks in that "scar."
Dr. Chandra: "Can you analyze the image on Monitor 2?"
HAL: "Yes there is a circular object near the equator. It is 22 thousand kilometers in diameter. It is comprised of rectangular objects."
Dr. Chandra: "How many?"
HAL: "1,355,000 plus or minus 1000."
Dr. Chandra: "And what is the proportion of the objects in question?"
HAL: "One by Four by Nine."
Dr. Chandra: "Do you recognize these objects?"
HAL: "Yes they are identical in size and shape to the object you call 'The Monolith'."
| 65 |
Ward Cleaver Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:30:35pm |
re: #59 Walter L. Newton
OT - (but still scary)
Morning Bell: Obama Admits He’s “Not Familiar” With House Bill
During the call, a blogger from Maine said he kept running into an Investors Business Daily article that claimed Section 102 of the House health legislation would outlaw private insurance. He asked: “Is this true? Will people be able to keep their insurance and will insurers be able to write new policies even though H.R. 3200 is passed?” President Obama replied: “You know, I have to say that I am not familiar with the provision you are talking about.”
[Link: www.heritage.org...]
"I have no idea what's in it, but we must pass it. Our future depends on it."
| 66 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:30:52pm |
re: #61 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Not to worry. They guys voting on it don't know what the hells in it either. So, it's kind of even.
Shit, you're right. That makes me feel much better. Now I can go back to drooling in the corner.
| 67 |
Idle Drifter Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:30:59pm |
| 68 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:31:06pm |
re: #57 Ward Cleaver
Isn't that the same bitch that files all the other ones?
No idea, but I wouldn't be surprised. Someone should lay the smack down on her if it is the same person.
| 69 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:31:08pm |
re: #13 SixDegrees
Just to clarify - the impact scar is roughly the size of earth. The chunk of stuff that caused it was probably about 50 to 100 miles across.
Oh. Well. That's comforting.
| 70 |
Eowyn2 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:31:14pm |
re: #49 TheMatrix31
ANOTHER nonsensical ethics probe against Palin?
I'm really sick of this shit they keep trying to throw against her.
"She's not acknowledging the fact that the ethics complaint was credible," Chatman said. "When ethics complaints are dismissed, she's quick to publicly respond but this one, she's sitting on."
I wonder how many of the complaints were filed by Kim Chatman and/or associates of said Chatman?
| 71 |
SixDegrees Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:31:55pm |
re: #41 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Would a hundred billion gerbils shrieking at once for a hundred billion years shriek out Shakespeare?
| 72 |
callahan23 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:32:16pm |
re: #58 buzzsawmonkey
On the other hand, those flying objects might just be missing us because we're so much smaller.
In the other thread relating to this subject James TKirk said it succinctly why Jupiter gets too little credit for catching most commets that otherwise would endanger us:
The reason Jupiter doesn't get any credit in the media is because of its name.Jew-piter.
Pretty funny IMHO
| 73 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:32:17pm |
| 74 |
Eowyn2 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:32:25pm |
re: #58 buzzsawmonkey
On the other hand, those flying objects might just be missing us because we're so much smaller.
Jupiter is earth's bodyguard.
We should invest in Jupiter Jump Suits.
Support your local bodyguard.
Bigger is better.
| 75 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:33:32pm |
re: #63 mrbaracuda
I don't know about you guys, but I keep getting the feeling of "Obama not good for America" in my tummy.
Yeah, it might look that way, but you know when ya get to really know the guy, then you are certain that he is not good for America.
| 76 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:33:33pm |
re: #58 buzzsawmonkey
On the other hand, those flying objects might just be missing us because we're so much smaller.
Hey bro..Size has nothing to do with it.. It's all about gravity...
A neutron star can be the size of NY.. Yet have more gravity than our sun.
Saturn and Jupiter are our Sole Systems Vacuum cleaners...Wink
| 77 |
LGoPs Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:33:35pm |
re: #34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
"In space, no one can hear you scream."
Movie Poster - Alien
I thought it was 'in space no one gives you ice cream"...
/ :
| 78 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:34:39pm |
re: #49 TheMatrix31
ANOTHER nonsensical ethics probe against Palin?
I'm really sick of this shit they keep trying to throw against her.
It's last-second desperation. They're throwing everything they can at her in a last ditch effort to get her on something. Reminds me of the Congressional Dems starting "investigation" after "investigation" from Jan '07 to Nov '08 in the hopes of impeaching Bush.
| 79 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:34:43pm |
re: #76 HoosierHoops
Hey bro..Size has nothing to do with it.. It's all about gravity...
A neutron star can be the size of NY.. Yet have more gravity than our sun.
Saturn and Jupiter are ourSoleSolar Systems' Vacuum cleaners...Wink
Jeez
| 80 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:36:23pm |
via Facebook
I cannot verify the validity of this claim. There is no final report. The Investigator is still confidentially reviewing this matter. It appears suspect that in the final days of the Governor's term, someone would again violate the law and announce a supposed conclusion before it is reached.Meghan Stapleton
Palin Spokesperson
| 81 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:37:40pm |
re: #78 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
It's last-second desperation. They're throwing everything they can at her in a last ditch effort to get her on something. Reminds me of the Congressional Dems starting "investigation" after "investigation" from Jan '07 to Nov '08 in the hopes of impeaching Bush.
re: #78 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
It's last-second desperation. They're throwing everything they can at her in a last ditch effort to get her on something. Reminds me of the Congressional Dems starting "investigation" after "investigation" from Jan '07 to Nov '08 in the hopes of impeaching Bush.
She's already tweeted on this.
Re inaccurate story floating re:ethics violation/Legal Defense Fund;matter is still pending;new info was just requested even;no final report
| 84 |
brookly red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:39:12pm |
re: #75 opnion
Yeah, it might look that way, but you know when ya get to really know the guy, then you are certain that he is not good for America.
Well America is a "mean" country after all...
| 85 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:40:19pm |
re: #49 TheMatrix31
ANOTHER nonsensical ethics probe against Palin?
I'm really sick of this shit they keep trying to throw against her.
They just keep on comin. I think that it is really funny when the Obama crew bristle when they are accused of being in a cult of personality.
Typically they try to make the support for Palin equivalent. Actually I think that she gets her support because she is a decent person & as backlash against the loons who try to destroy her.
| 87 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:41:43pm |
re: #84 brookly red
Well America is a "mean" country after all...
"Never been proud of it as an adult."
| 88 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:43:53pm |
We're watching the first Nixon/Kennedy debate in class right now. Interesting.
| 89 |
ted Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:44:11pm |
re: #5 brookly red
Nice to know that there are things the size of size of earth just flying around out there...
Damn right...What are our crack astronomers at NASA doing anyway?
| 90 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:44:26pm |
re: #70 Eowyn2
There's a good website that tracks this stuff.
Chapman also joined a lawsuit filed by George Royal over a "juneteenth' proclamation he said she was supposed to sign but didn't (this is the guy who claimed he hit on her and she was interested, but said 'hey sorry, I don't do black guys'. This site covers that too (scroll down). Tim Blair, our Aussie buddy, has pretty much castrated the so-called 'investigative journalist' supposedly in Toronto who is currently using the name Charlie James.
The MSM - and most blogs - are not covering NEARLY the extent of what Palin has had to put up with and the scum that are being allowed to perpetrate it.
| 91 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:45:00pm |
re: #85 opnion
They just keep on comin. I think that it is really funny when the Obama crew bristle when they are accused of being in a cult of personality...
Sort of combining the above comment with this thread. I would LOVE to see how world leaders, people who are so important that they are besides themselves, religious leaders who claim everything, but don't know shit, I would love to see how they would react if suddenly we discovered that the earth was going to be hit by something like this "thing" that hit Jupiter, and that everything was fixing to be over.
I want to be there to see that. It makes me wonder what self-importance looks like with shit running down their legs.
What an image. I can only hope.
| 92 |
brookly red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:46:39pm |
re: #89 ted
Damn right...What are our crack astronomers at NASA doing anyway?
trying to educate us about global warming protect their funding?
| 93 |
HelloDare Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:46:50pm |
Budget chief: Docs fees not paid for in Obama bill
WASHINGTON (AP) - A senior administration official says billions of dollars to raise fees for doctors treating Medicare patients are not covered by President Barack Obama's pledge to pay for health care legislation.
Budget Director Peter Orszag said Tuesday that's because the administration always assumed the money would be spent to prevent a cut of more than 20 percent in doctor fees.
The Congressional Budget Office said last Friday the higher payments cost $245 billion over 10 years. It said including the money in the overall bill would result in deficits totaling $239 billion.
On Friday, a few hours earlier, the president declared: "I've said that health-insurance reform cannot add to our deficit over the next decade. And I mean it."
| 94 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:47:16pm |
re: #91 Walter L. Newton
Sort of combining the above comment with this thread. I would LOVE to see how world leaders, people who are so important that they are besides themselves, religious leaders who claim everything, but don't know shit, I would love to see how they would react if suddenly we discovered that the earth was going to be hit by something like this "thing" that hit Jupiter, and that everything was fixing to be over.
I want to be there to see that. It makes me wonder what self-importance looks like with shit running down their legs.
What an image. I can only hope.
The mighty would not be so mighty.
| 95 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:49:08pm |
re: #93 HelloDare
Budget chief: Docs fees not paid for in Obama bill
WASHINGTON (AP) - A senior administration official says billions of dollars to raise fees for doctors treating Medicare patients are not covered by President Barack Obama's pledge to pay for health care legislation.
Budget Director Peter Orszag said Tuesday that's because the administration always assumed the money would be spent to prevent a cut of more than 20 percent in doctor fees.
The Congressional Budget Office said last Friday the higher payments cost $245 billion over 10 years. It said including the money in the overall bill would result in deficits totaling $239 billion.
On Friday, a few hours earlier, the president declared: "I've said that health-insurance reform cannot add to our deficit over the next decade. And I mean it."
Who voted for that silly twit? I want names damn it!
| 96 |
LionOfDixon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:49:27pm |
I wouldn't be surprised if North Korea claims credit for this, touting the incredible range of its improved Taepodong 2 missle...
| 97 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:49:53pm |
take that, you poppy scum...
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
| 98 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:50:24pm |
re: #96 LionOfDixon
I wouldn't be surprised if North Korea claims credit for this, touting the incredible range of its improved Taepodong 2 missle...
Nah, it was the Mahdi.
| 99 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:51:02pm |
re: #96 LionOfDixon
I wouldn't be surprised if North Korea claims credit for this, touting the incredible range of its improved Taepodong 2 missle...
heh...that would really be a long dong
| 100 |
Truck Monkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:52:13pm |
re: #88 TheMatrix31
We're watching the first Nixon/Kennedy debate in class right now. Interesting.
What is left to debate? They're both dead!
//
| 101 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:52:46pm |
re: #97 albusteve
take that, you poppy scum...
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
Damn, talk 'bout "up in smoke."
| 104 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:53:28pm |
I see these things and think about how fortunate we are for the outer gas giants. With their massive potential wells, they act as very effective sweepers for things that might otherwise have been attracted to us.
| 105 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:53:32pm |
re: #100 Truck Monkey
What is left to debate? They're both dead!
//
Bullshit, Kennedy is on the same tropical pacific island as Patton and Elvis.
| 106 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:54:26pm |
re: #105 Nevergiveup
Bullshit, Kennedy is on the same tropical pacific island as Patton and Elvis.
Ummm Elvis is on MARS! get it straight!
| 107 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:54:58pm |
GOP congressman has birther meltdown on Hardball (video)
It takes Chris Matthews two full minutes to finally get Congressman John Campbell (R-CA) to definitively admit that he believes President Obama was born in the United States:
| 108 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:55:16pm |
re: #105 Nevergiveup
If Kennedy and Elvis are on those island, then where's Michael Jackson!?
| 109 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:55:22pm |
re: #106 LudwigVanQuixote
Ummm Elvis is on MARS! get it straight!
No he lives in the back of a Dunkin Donuts in kalamazoo.
| 110 |
Truck Monkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:55:23pm |
re: #105 Nevergiveup
Bullshit, Kennedy is on the same tropical pacific island as Patton and Elvis.
Sssshhh dude! You are going to let everyone in on this!
;-)
| 111 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:55:29pm |
re: #100 Truck Monkey
What is left to debate? They're both dead!
//
LOL. It's a persuasive communication class.
You know, people talked about how Kennedy was better looking than Nixon, but Kennedy was a pretty gawky looking dude.
| 112 |
SixDegrees Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:55:38pm |
re: #97 albusteve
take that, you poppy scum...
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
I saw this article earlier, and got stuck on this statement:
The U.S. military bombed about 300 tons of poppy seeds in a dusty field in southern Afghanistan Tuesday
Maybe this is just bad reporting. But poppy seeds aren't the problem; heroin is refined from the sap of the plants. Poppy seeds are used for replanting, of course, but 300 tons of them? We're talking tiny seeds, here; that's a hell of a lot of seeds, way more than would be required for replanting. They're also used for seasoning on bagels and rolls, of course, which might account for the enormous quantity stockpiled. But that would be a legitimate, legal use for them - not something you would want to bomb.
I'm just not understanding this story. Something's wrong with it.
| 113 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:55:50pm |
we don't need to stinkin Afghani smack to ruin our lives...call a dentist!
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
| 114 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:57:00pm |
re: #104 LudwigVanQuixote
I see these things and think about how fortunate we are for the outer gas giants. With their massive potential wells, they act as very effective sweepers for things that might otherwise have been attracted to us.
Put a smile to my face since it sounds so prayer-like if you don't mind me saying so:
"Dear Lord, we give you thanks this day for the outer gas giants. With their massive potential wells, they act as very effective sweepers for things that might otherwise have been attracted to us. Amen."
| 116 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:57:22pm |
re: #107 Killgore Trout
The "no racist here" party has a problem... democrat Maloney apologizes for using N word.
[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]
| 117 |
LGoPs Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:58:06pm |
re: #104 LudwigVanQuixote
I see these things and think about how fortunate we are for the outer gas giants. With their massive potential wells, they act as very effective sweepers for things that might otherwise have been attracted to us.
We also have some inner gas giants. Rosie O'Donnell comes to mind.
/
| 118 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:58:11pm |
re: #111 TheMatrix31
LOL. It's a persuasive communication class.
You know, people talked about how Kennedy was better looking than Nixon, but Kennedy was a pretty gawky looking dude.
Kennedy was perceived to be better looking because he was relatively unknown, whereas Nixon was already known as 'Tricky Dick'.
Speaking for myself, except for Maria Shriver, I think the whole Kennedy clan look strange.
| 119 |
SixDegrees Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:58:37pm |
re: #116 Walter L. Newton
The "no racist here" party has a problem... democrat Maloney apologizes for using N word.
[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]
At least her excuse is a keeper: my mouth said things I didn't want it to.
| 120 |
Truck Monkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:58:45pm |
re: #116 Walter L. Newton
The "no racist here" party has a problem... democrat Maloney apologizes for using N word.
[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]
Maybe she was drunk. You know how those Micks are!
/
| 121 |
Eowyn2 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:00:15pm |
| 122 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:00:22pm |
re: #113 albusteve
we don't need to stinkin Afghani smack to ruin our lives...call a dentist!
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
Actually people like him aren't all that tough to spot
| 123 |
Diamond Bullet Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:00:42pm |
I'm still confused by the scale in that picture. Would it be possible to add Obama's ego, so I can figure out how truly gargantuan that crater is?
| 125 |
Truck Monkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:01:08pm |
re: #118 wahabicorridor
Kennedy was perceived to be better looking because he was relatively unknown, whereas Nixon was already known as 'Tricky Dick'.
Speaking for myself, except for Maria Shriver, I think the whole Kennedy clan look strange.
Maria Shriver? She has horse teeth.
| 126 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:02:25pm |
re: #118 wahabicorridor
Kennedy was perceived to be better looking because he was relatively unknown, whereas Nixon was already known as 'Tricky Dick'.
Speaking for myself, except for Maria Shriver, I think the whole Kennedy clan look strange.
Kennedy looks like his face was smudged and squished. Nixon's got interesting ears, but not worse than Obama's.
| 127 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:02:32pm |
Share %P%
Last update - 21:01 21/07/2009
'Huckabee to air Fox News show from disputed East Jerusalem site'
By Shlomo Shamir, Haaretz Correspondent
Tags: Israel News, Palestinian
Former U.S. presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee plans to broadcast his weekend show on Fox News from the site of a disputed Israeli construction project in East Jerusalem, a New York politician has told Haaretz.
New York State Assemblyman Dov Hikind said Huckabee will air the talkshow during a solidarity visit to the site of the project, which is in the Palestinian neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah.
Hikind, who is active in right-wing Jewish causes, told Haaretz that dozens of U.S. activists will participate in the mission, in order to express their support for the project and the man behind it, Irving Moskowitz.
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]
Well that should get Obama's attention?
| 128 |
SixDegrees Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:02:38pm |
re: #121 Eowyn2
taliban poppy seed
good guy poppy seed is at the muffin factory
OK. I can see denying them funds. But the connection to heroin here seems...strained.
I think something got left out of the article.
| 129 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:03:18pm |
re: #125 Truck Monkey
Maria Shriver? She has horse teeth.
Yeah but I hear Arnold has horse's...ah..never mind
| 130 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:03:40pm |
re: #122 Nevergiveup
Actually people like him aren't all that tough to spot
I've known enough junkies in my day...they come in all shapes and sizes...one commonality...they will lie to you and they will cut their mother's throat
| 131 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:03:53pm |
re: #127 Nevergiveup
Share %P%
Last update - 21:01 21/07/2009'Huckabee to air Fox News show from disputed East Jerusalem site'
By Shlomo Shamir, Haaretz Correspondent
Tags: Israel News, Palestinian
Former U.S. presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee plans to broadcast his weekend show on Fox News from the site of a disputed Israeli construction project in East Jerusalem, a New York politician has told Haaretz.
New York State Assemblyman Dov Hikind said Huckabee will air the talkshow during a solidarity visit to the site of the project, which is in the Palestinian neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah.
Hikind, who is active in right-wing Jewish causes, told Haaretz that dozens of U.S. activists will participate in the mission, in order to express their support for the project and the man behind it, Irving Moskowitz.
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]
Well that should get Obama's attention?
I hope he doesn't try to play a jazz shofar.
| 132 |
LGoPs Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:03:57pm |
As this thread seems to be dying a slow and painful death I suggest we play ObamaCare with it. Everybody in favor of terminating it's useless existence say "Aye".
| 133 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:04:28pm |
re: #130 albusteve
I've known enough junkies in my day...they come in all shapes and sizes...one commonality...they will lie to you and they will cut their mother's throat
I just meant as a Dentist I have gotten those phone calls.
| 134 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:04:35pm |
re: #128 SixDegrees
OK. I can see denying them funds. But the connection to heroin here seems...strained.
I think something got left out of the article.
seed to flower to sap...there is no more to it
| 135 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:04:36pm |
re: #132 LGoPs
As this thread seems to be dying a slow and painful death I suggest we play ObamaCare with it. Everybody in favor of terminating it's useless existence say "Aye".
How dare you try to impersonate the government!
/
| 136 |
Truck Monkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:04:49pm |
re: #129 Nevergiveup
Yeah but I hear Arnold has horse's...ah..never mind
He cannot be hung like a horse. Steroids probably took their toll on little Arnold back in the 70's and 80's.
| 137 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:05:08pm |
| 138 |
LGoPs Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:05:17pm |
re: #135 TheMatrix31
How dare you try to impersonate the government!
/
It's fun pretending to be a mindless bureaucrat...
| 139 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:05:26pm |
ALERT ALERT ALERT
I keep one of those freebie yahoo email accounts.
Got this in my inbox. I'm not buying it.
Account Alert
Dear Valued Member,
Due to the congestion in all Yahoo users and removal of all unused Yahoo Accounts,Yahoo would be shutting down all unused Accounts,You will have to confirm your E-mail by filling out your Login Info below after clicking the reply botton, or your account will be suspended within 24 hours for security reasons.
UserName: ...
Password: ...
Date of Birth: ...
Country Or Territory: ...
After following the instructions in the sheet, your account will not be interrupted and will continue as normal. Thanks for your attention to this request. We apologize for any inconvenience.
| 140 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:05:28pm |
re: #136 Truck Monkey
He cannot be hung like a horse. Steroids probably took their toll on little Arnold back in the 70's and 80's.
OK good point
| 141 |
Neutral President Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:05:48pm |
re: #136 Truck Monkey
He cannot be hung like a horse. Steroids probably took their toll on little Arnold back in the 70's and 80's.
"Steroids make you deaf! GET HIM OUT OF HERE NOW!"
| 142 |
brookly red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:06:00pm |
re: #132 LGoPs
As this thread seems to be dying a slow and painful death I suggest we play ObamaCare with it. Everybody in favor of terminating it's useless existence say "Aye".
excuse me but ObamaCare would have it die on its own waiting for treatment...
| 143 |
Buck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:06:00pm |
OT:
Did I miss the discussion about Obama's demand for East Jerusalem building freeze?
It seems so very important to me. It sort of shows where his mind is at. It is also great proof of the "tell them what they want to hear" Obama.
| 144 |
Neutral President Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:06:19pm |
re: #129 Nevergiveup
Yeah but I hear Arnold has horse's...ah..never mind
For the past 3-4 years he's been a horse's ass.
| 145 |
LGoPs Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:06:27pm |
| 146 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:06:44pm |
re: #125 Truck Monkey
Maria Shriver? She has horse teeth.
Ah, personal taste, I guess. I think the bone structure in her face in awesome. And her hair, which I would KILL for.
| 147 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:06:46pm |
re: #133 Nevergiveup
I just meant as a Dentist I have gotten those phone calls.
I can't imagine...talk about shameless...get out on the streets you sissies!
| 148 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:06:56pm |
re: #132 LGoPs
As this thread seems to be dying a slow and painful death I suggest we play ObamaCare with it. Everybody in favor of terminating it's useless existence say "Aye".
Wait, it's registered as a Democrat voter. Quick, get it into surgery!
| 149 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:07:06pm |
re: #146 wahabicorridor
Ah, personal taste, I guess. I think the bone structure in her face in awesome. And her hair, which I would KILL for.
I'd kill for her bank account
| 150 |
Neutral President Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:08:10pm |
re: #145 LGoPs
What?
From the wonderful ROIDs-ridden film known as The Running Man. They make a joke about steroids in a movie where everyone but Richard Dawson and Mick Fleetwood has probably done them.
| 151 |
IslandLibertarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:08:25pm |
re: #127 Nevergiveup
Well that should get Obama's attention?
"0" won't be the only interested schmuck. I'll bet even Arafat peeks out of the ground to see this sideshow.
| 152 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:08:53pm |
re: #146 wahabicorridor
Ah, personal taste, I guess. I think the bone structure in her face in awesome. And her hair, which I would KILL for.
her face was squished into a rectangle by her Chinese centric parents...pretty obvious...ever see her feet?
| 153 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:09:02pm |
re: #139 wahabicorridor
Oh, yeah, I should say that the return address on the supposed Yahoo 'customer service' account is - get this - accountmailcenter@gmail.com
| 154 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:09:34pm |
US: Too early to discuss int'l pressure on Israel
Published: 07.22.09, 00:59 / Israel News
The Obama Administration said it was "premature" to discuss the possibility of applying international pressure on Israel to freeze settlement constriction.
State Department spokesman Robert Wood was responding to reporters' questions on whether the US was considering imposing economic sanctions on Israel. (AFP)
Well the fact that this is even being discussed makes me want to say to all my liberal Jewish friends and family: Can ya feel the love yet!
| 155 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:09:40pm |
re: #143 Buck
OT:
Did I miss the discussion about Obama's demand for East Jerusalem building freeze?
It seems so very important to me. It sort of shows where his mind is at. It is also great proof of the "tell them what they want to hear" Obama.
From my cold, dead, finished basement.
| 156 |
SixDegrees Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:09:47pm |
re: #134 albusteve
seed to flower to sap...there is no more to it
Yeah, I get that idea. It's just that 300 tons of poppy seeds - they're small - is crazy excessive for replanting purposes. There have to be hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of those little buggers per pound.
I guess if the facility was being run by the Taliban, that would start to make sense of the operation.
| 157 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:10:24pm |
re: #151 IslandLibertarian
Well that should get Obama's attention?"0" won't be the only interested schmuck. I'll bet even Arafat peeks out of the ground to see this sideshow.
Except he is buried kinda far from there.
| 158 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:10:28pm |
| 159 |
Truck Monkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:11:04pm |
re: #152 albusteve
her face was squished into a rectangle by her Chinese centric parents...pretty obvious...ever see her feet?
Skelator with horse teeth. I'd bet she has cloven hooves (sp).
| 160 |
LGoPs Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:11:43pm |
re: #150 ArchangelMichael
From the wonderful ROIDs-ridden film known as The Running Man. They make a joke about steroids in a movie where everyone but Richard Dawson and Mick Fleetwood has probably done them.
Gotcha. I was actually trying to be a smart aleck answering your point about going deaf. As I hit post I realized that actually I was reading your post...
:)
| 161 |
freetoken Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:12:38pm |
Since this is looking like science-day at LGF...
I see that Fox News website has yet another Holdren-wants-forced-abortions story... which of course Drudge is pimping.
IMO, this and similar stories are just another manifestation of the culture wars. Beyond the normal us-vs-them political recipe, such stories are used to reinforce the idea of scientists as madmen and academics as against the people.
Unusual for me, yesterday I was listening to talk radio and turned in Jon and Ken (from KFI in LA), whose current project is to change the California constitution to limit the Assembly session to just 3 months a year. Now, that may be a good idea, but their reasoning was quite backwards. They declared they wanted average/normal people to be Assemblymen. To me, that is an idiotic (and self destructive) desire.
What we need are leaders who are not average, but who rise above the fray and pettiness of life and become leaders in their fields. People like Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, etc. were not average men. Even the leaders in the history of Congress were not "average". Local leaders who help their community are not "average".
One of the (many) problems with culture wars is the existence of those who profit from this war... and they profit by reinforcing in the minds' of populists the threat that the specialists/professionals pose.
Let's hope that our culture can overcome these self defeating desires.
| 162 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:13:14pm |
re: #158 albusteve
in that case take out Bill Gates...jus sayin
He's not even leaving much to his children, let alone me. And it pisses me off that a guy whose wealth is surely locked up in ironclad trusts and bequests to the charities of his choice thinks the rest of us should be subject to an inheritance tax and allow the government to take our hard-earned wealth away from our children.
/Not that I have any wealth, but I'd like to someday.
| 164 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:14:35pm |
re: #156 SixDegrees
Yeah, I get that idea. It's just that 300 tons of poppy seeds - they're small - is crazy excessive for replanting purposes. There have to be hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of those little buggers per pound.
I guess if the facility was being run by the Taliban, that would start to make sense of the operation.
I know what your saying and I know little about the actual cultivation...I do recall pictures from the 70s of poppy fields in Afghanistan the size of Montana wheat fields...actually miles across...if that counts for anything...so further when people (like me) say well just take out the fields...it is a very problematic task
| 165 |
callahan23 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:15:16pm |
re: #154 Nevergiveup
US: Too early to discuss int'l pressure on Israel
Published: 07.22.09, 00:59 / Israel News
The Obama Administration said it was "premature" to discuss the possibility of applying international pressure on Israel to freeze settlement constriction.
State Department spokesman Robert Wood was responding to reporters' questions on whether the US was considering imposing economic sanctions on Israel. (AFP)Well the fact that this is even being discussed makes me want to say to all my liberal Jewish friends and family: Can ya feel the love yet!
All I can say is I quote MandyManners No. 1, Top 10 Comments.
I hope everyone who refused to vote for McCain because he wasn't conservative enough is fucking happy now!
| 166 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:15:30pm |
re: #143 Buck
OT:
Did I miss the discussion about Obama's demand for East Jerusalem building freeze?
It seems so very important to me. It sort of shows where his mind is at. It is also great proof of the "tell them what they want to hear" Obama.
Not enough, that's for sure.
I'm waiting for Putin to tell Obama that he can't provide stimulus funds to bail out bad mortgages in DC for whatever reason.
There was a snotty editorial in today's Financial Times telling Obama to 'stick to his guns' and be prepared to back up words with actions - because Israel won't risk the alliance.
This is an alliance? Bullshit.
| 167 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:15:46pm |
re: #161 freetoken
I'd like to see ordinary successful businessmen, doctors - heck, even lawyers - instead of professional politicians who think it's their full-time job to run our lives. Georgia's legislature meets from January to early April each year, so all the legislators have real jobs elsewhere. I think it's good and it keeps them in touch with the people in their district.
| 168 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:16:11pm |
| 170 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:16:58pm |
re: #162 doppelganglander
He's not even leaving much to his children, let alone me. And it pisses me off that a guy whose wealth is surely locked up in ironclad trusts and bequests to the charities of his choice thinks the rest of us should be subject to an inheritance tax and allow the government to take our hard-earned wealth away from our children.
/Not that I have any wealth, but I'd like to someday.
Gates jumped the shark...he lives in a world of his own, but he is very generous, that is undeniable...if I had 40b I might seem a bit eccentric myself
| 171 |
IslandLibertarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:17:07pm |
re: #164 albusteve
so further when people (like me) say well just take out the fields...it is a very problematic task
agent orange
| 172 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:18:07pm |
re: #170 albusteve
Gates jumped the shark...he lives in a world of his own, but he is very generous, that is undeniable...if I had 40b I might seem a bit eccentric myself
Would that eccentricity extend to giving me a few million? just asking in case you ever strike it rich?
| 173 |
Truck Monkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:18:20pm |
re: #163 IslandLibertarian
Lets hope that this happens to more congress critters as they face their constituents during summer break.
| 174 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:18:54pm |
re: #167 doppelganglander
I'd like to see ordinary successful businessmen, doctors - heck, even lawyers - instead of professional politicians who think it's their full-time job to run our lives. Georgia's legislature meets from January to early April each year, so all the legislators have real jobs elsewhere. I think it's good and it keeps them in touch with the people in their district.
did you check out the troofer upthread that KT posted?...he actually represents us citizens...good lawd!
| 175 |
Buck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:19:22pm |
re: #162 doppelganglander
He's not even leaving much to his children, let alone me. And it pisses me off that a guy whose wealth is surely locked up in ironclad trusts and bequests to the charities of his choice thinks the rest of us should be subject to an inheritance tax and allow the government to take our hard-earned wealth away from our children.
/Not that I have any wealth, but I'd like to someday.
You are mad that Bill Gates is currently the greatest philantrapist, and that he has announced that he plans to give away his fortune to charity?
Was there a sarc tag missing?
| 176 |
LGoPs Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:19:44pm |
re: #162 doppelganglander
He's not even leaving much to his children, let alone me. And it pisses me off that a guy whose wealth is surely locked up in ironclad trusts and bequests to the charities of his choice thinks the rest of us should be subject to an inheritance tax and allow the government to take our hard-earned wealth away from our children.
/Not that I have any wealth, but I'd like to someday.
Typical 'Do as I say, not as I do".
I really, really detest that.
| 177 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:20:02pm |
re: #172 Nevergiveup
Would that eccentricity extend to giving me a few million? just asking in case you ever strike it rich?
of course...just call my office
| 178 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:20:53pm |
LMFAO...you guys want a bit of irony?
An OBVIOUS Obama voter is complaining about Nixon using "the last 7 and a half years "over and over and over again in his responses.
LMFAO.
| 179 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:22:52pm |
re: #161 freetoken
IMO, this and similar stories are just another manifestation of the culture wars. Beyond the normal us-vs-them political recipe, such stories are used to reinforce the idea of scientists as madmen and academics as against the people.
WTF? That book said the scenario was 'inevitable'. You want 'culture wars'? Try 'scientists' who are flogging the notion that forced abortions and mass sterilization are inevitable.
As for your 'above average' - will Holdren's IQ is probably pretty high and his career has been above average.
I prefer Joe Sixpack, thanks much.
And not to put too fine a point on it - I was actually married to a physicist/computer scientist. Trust me, 'above average' does not equal 'moderately human'.
| 180 |
Son of the Black Dog Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:23:36pm |
re: #167 doppelganglander
I'd like to see ordinary successful businessmen, doctors - heck, even lawyers - instead of professional politicians who think it's their full-time job to run our lives. Georgia's legislature meets from January to early April each year, so all the legislators have real jobs elsewhere. I think it's good and it keeps them in touch with the people in their district.
But you repeat yourself.
| 181 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:23:39pm |
remember Dennis Rodman the NBA freak?...he had a crew, he'd drive around winter nights after a game rounding up bums and junkies and homeless people...shuttle them to a restaurant...hand out jumbo winter parkas and some cash...he liked doing it for the buzz...people are very different with money
| 182 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:24:07pm |
re: #175 Buck
You are mad that Bill Gates is currently the greatest philantrapist, and that he has announced that he plans to give away his fortune to charity?
Was there a sarc tag missing?
No, she thinks that if he has the right to choose where his money is going, so should the rest of us.
| 183 |
freetoken Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:24:40pm |
re: #167 doppelganglander
The best doctors I have met and whose services I have employed were not every-day people, but extraordinarily bright and well educated.
Likewise, the successful businessmen I have known have been a small minority... they have gifts and the willingness to use them... and often have extraordinary amounts of perseverance.
Leaders are not ordinary people. Yes, I know that in populism there is a belief that anyone can be a leader, and that might be true for the simplest of situations (say in a recreational setting), but for modern society in the large leadership will fall upon those who have abilities that many people do not.
Modernism relies upon a very fine division of labor. While I have no doubt that we in California would do better if some of the current Assemblymen were replaced or limited in their reach of powers, nevertheless I do not believe or desire that the "average" person off the street would do any better and likely they would do worse.
| 184 |
debutaunt Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:24:51pm |
re: #6 HelloDare
I don't understand why Obama didn't stop this.
Whoopie has sincere doubts that it ever happened.
| 185 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:25:40pm |
re: #182 EmmmieG
No, she thinks that if he has the right to choose where his money is going, so should the rest of us.
Yeah. And I'm not sure Bill Gates has said anything about inheritance taxes. Warren Buffett most certainly has, tho' and they're best buds.
| 186 |
Son of the Black Dog Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:26:27pm |
re: #171 IslandLibertarian
so further when people (like me) say well just take out the fields...it is a very problematic task
agent orange
I hope the lack of a sarc tag was just an oversight on your part.
| 187 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:26:29pm |
Far left brains exploding again as the Obama administration defends Cheney:
| 188 |
Russkilitlover Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:27:10pm |
re: #170 albusteve
Gates jumped the shark...he lives in a world of his own, but he is very generous, that is undeniable...if I had 40b I might seem a bit eccentric myself
Speaking of philanthropy, I have a bit of a pet-peeve rant. Two of my neighbors are involved in their churches and they do "missionary" work. One of the daughters is off to Kenya to work with some orphans for a couple of weeks, the other neighbor just got back from Cuba doing whatever good works at some remote village.
My beef? These folks are doing this with starry eyes and feeling oh so good about themselves. Meanwhile, here in the USA, families are being foreclosed on, losing homes, jobs, insurance, retirement savings and any peace of mind they thought they had.
Just pisses me off that these do-gooders feel they need to globe trot to feel altruistic.
/Rant off.
| 189 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:27:55pm |
re: #185 wahabicorridor
Yeah. And I'm not sure Bill Gates has said anything about inheritance taxes. Warren Buffett most certainly has, tho' and they're best buds.
I know Bill Gates Sr. said the thing about the inheritance tax, but that was before the birth of his grandchildren. I actually haven't heard what Bill and Melinda have said. However, it would be hypocrisy to call for 100% inheritance taxes while making sure you direct where you own wealth goes.
| 191 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:30:12pm |
re: #188 Russkilitlover
Speaking of philanthropy, I have a bit of a pet-peeve rant. Two of my neighbors are involved in their churches and they do "missionary" work. One of the daughters is off to Kenya to work with some orphans for a couple of weeks, the other neighbor just got back from Cuba doing whatever good works at some remote village.
My beef? These folks are doing this with starry eyes and feeling oh so good about themselves. Meanwhile, here in the USA, families are being foreclosed on, losing homes, jobs, insurance, retirement savings and any peace of mind they thought they had.
Just pisses me off that these do-gooders feel they need to globe trot to feel altruistic.
/Rant off.
the theory is that an air conditioned stitch in sub Sahara Africa rounds out the character...a worldly thing
| 192 |
Son of the Black Dog Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:31:41pm |
re: #185 wahabicorridor
Yeah. And I'm not sure Bill Gates has said anything about inheritance taxes. Warren Buffett most certainly has, tho' and they're best buds.
Warren Buffett is leaving the bulk of his fortune to charity. That's nice.
But what gets lost at the end of the story is the fact that his children are going to be trustees and employees of the charity. So - his family will continue to enjoy a tidy income from the family fortune, while avoiding estate taxes.
| 193 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:33:02pm |
dashing headlong into the past...BO is clearly a student of history...and on your dime too
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
| 194 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:33:03pm |
WASHINGTON (AP) - A senior administration official says billions of dollars to raise fees for doctors treating Medicare patients are not covered by President Barack Obama's pledge to pay for health care legislation.
Budget Director Peter Orszag said Tuesday that's because the administration always assumed the money would be spent to prevent a cut of more than 20 percent in doctor fees.
The Congressional Budget Office said last Friday the higher payments cost $245 billion over 10 years. It said including the money in the overall bill would result in deficits totaling $239 billion.
On Friday, a few hours earlier, the president declared: "I've said that health-insurance reform cannot add to our deficit over the next decade. And I mean it."
What are these people talking about? This is a real Greek tragedy?
| 195 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:33:03pm |
re: #186 Son of the Black Dog
I hope the lack of a sarc tag was just an oversight on your part.
What's the problem with destroying the heroin fields? And the dirty fuckers who grow the shit should be stopped too.l
| 196 |
lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:34:49pm |
re: #183 freetoken
Leaders are not ordinary people. Yes, I know that in populism there is a belief that anyone can be a leader, and that might be true for the simplest of situations (say in a recreational setting), but for modern society in the large leadership will fall upon those who have abilities that many people do not.
Just what "abilities" does Loretta Sanchez have, pray tell?
Or Cynthia McKinney? Al Franken? Patty Murray?
Yes, there have been some exceptional people in Congress over the centuries, but I'd be hard pressed to name any out of the current crop, from either party.
| 197 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:34:51pm |
re: #195 Spare O'Lake
What's the problem with destroying the heroin fields? And the dirty fuckers who grow the shit should be stopped too.l
Agent Orange is evil shit...you just don't do that...how about drying up the market?
| 198 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:35:02pm |
re: #194 Nevergiveup
...What are these people talking about? This is a real Greek tragedy?
Correction... geek tragedy.
| 199 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:35:09pm |
re: #192 Son of the Black Dog
Warren Buffett is leaving the bulk of his fortune to charity. That's nice.
But what gets lost at the end of the story is the fact that his children are going to be trustees and employees of the charity. So - his family will continue to enjoy a tidy income from the family fortune, while avoiding estate taxes.
I've told my parents to blow their dough.
I'd rather see them live well now, enjoy it, and leave me virtually nothing rather than the government get whatever they can out of it.
It's theirs.
| 200 |
Russkilitlover Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:35:54pm |
re: #183 freetoken
Your post is so against everything I believe in. Leaders are different? What are you, some monarchist? Have you read of the "extraordinary" things that "average" people have contributed to this society? Where else but America can an "ordinary" person achieve success, wealth, great creative achievements?
| 201 |
Son of the Black Dog Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:37:19pm |
re: #195 Spare O'Lake
What's the problem with destroying the heroin fields? And the dirty fuckers who grow the shit should be stopped too.l
I have firsthand experience with the aftereffects of agent orange, and wouldn't wish it on anybody, including opium growers and their families. The farmers aren't really the ones pulling in the big bucks in the heroin trade anyway.
| 202 |
Son of the Black Dog Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:38:14pm |
re: #197 albusteve
Agent Orange is evil shit...you just don't do that...how about drying up the market?
Sorry I only have one up-ding for you.
| 204 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:39:37pm |
re: #203 Iron Fist
That is never going to happen. It just isn't. Sure it'd be nice if no one wanted to do smack, but they do. They are going to continue to want to no matter what kind of feel-good rehab you send them to. They are going to continue to do so if you put them in prison.
The only way for an addict to clean up is if they really want to. They havce to want it more than anything, and most of them don't want to at all.
Which raises the question of when, where, why, and how did Barrack Obama get clean of drugs? Something that no so-called journalist has had the balls to ask yet.
Journalism has left the building.
| 205 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:40:02pm |
re: #200 Russkilitlover
Your post is so against everything I believe in. Leaders are different? What are you, some monarchist? Have you read of the "extraordinary" things that "average" people have contributed to this society? Where else but America can an "ordinary" person achieve success, wealth, great creative achievements?
I'll frigging lead...3 wood on the right, lawhawk on the left...tfk and ironfist out front to clear they way...sharmuta and KT in back to keep it honest...no problemo
| 206 |
zombie Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:40:22pm |
re: #203 Iron Fist
Which raises the question of when, where, why, and how did Barrack Obama get clean of drugs? Something that no so-called journalist has had the balls to ask yet.
He never admitted to heroin specifically. Just cocaine and marijuana, and other unspecified "drugs." We don't know if he ever was an addict or not.
| 207 |
Buck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:40:37pm |
re: #182 EmmmieG
No, she thinks that if he has the right to choose where his money is going, so should the rest of us.
Charity = Family?
Really?
If she, or anyone one wants to give their money to charity, they can... But I don't think giving money to your family should be deductible.
| 208 |
LGoPs Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:41:26pm |
re: #200 Russkilitlover
Your post is so against everything I believe in. Leaders are different? What are you, some monarchist? Have you read of the "extraordinary" things that "average" people have contributed to this society? Where else but America can an "ordinary" person achieve success, wealth, great creative achievements?
True leaders IMO are ordinary people that rise to the circumstances and challenges that confront them. And I don't think you can plan for greatness or contrive it. I have an aversion to those that are overly ambitious and seek out greatness. People like that should be shunned and avoided and certainly not put in power.
I felt that way about Hillary and definitiely feel that way about Obama. Anybody that wants power that badly sholdl be kept as far away from it as possible.
| 209 |
pink freud Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:42:13pm |
| 210 |
IslandLibertarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:42:38pm |
re: #186 Son of the Black Dog
I hope the lack of a sarc tag was just an oversight on your part.
paraquat maybe? ok, "Round Up"...
| 211 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:42:48pm |
re: #203 Iron Fist
That is never going to happen. It just isn't. Sure it'd be nice if no one wanted to do smack, but they do. They are going to continue to want to no matter what kind of feel-good rehab you send them to. They are going to continue to do so if you put them in prison.
The only way for an addict to clean up is if they really want to. They havce to want it more than anything, and most of them don't want to at all.
Which raises the question of when, where, why, and how did Barrack Obama get clean of drugs? Something that no so-called journalist has had the balls to ask yet.
agreed, addiction is similar to poverty in that regard...and I've known both...reducing availability is part of a larger equation but you just don't nuke poppy fields...that is a very bad vibe for me
| 212 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:42:50pm |
re: #183 freetoken
nevertheless I do not believe or desire that the "average" person off the street would do any better and likely they would do worse.
You're missing some context here - such as 'what does it take to get elected' and what kind of ego is required to subject yourself to that?
My husband is a lobbyist and I know TONS of politicians whose names you would recognize.
They are NOT average. For the most part, they aren't even close to 'normal'.
| 214 |
Russkilitlover Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:43:16pm |
re: #205 albusteve
I'll frigging lead...3 wood on the right, lawhawk on the left...tfk and ironfist out front to clear they way...sharmuta and KT in back to keep it honest...no problemo
Don't forget Charles as the Right Tackle to bring down pretenders!
| 215 |
lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:43:21pm |
re: #207 Buck
If she, or anyone one wants to give their money to charity, they can... But I don't think giving money to your family should be deductible.
Who said anything about making it deductible?
The question is, why should the government be allowed to take half or more of it?
| 217 |
Son of the Black Dog Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:43:54pm |
re: #207 Buck
Charity = Family?
Really?
If she, or anyone one wants to give their money to charity, they can... But I don't think giving money to your family should be deductible.
It isn't, unless you do something contrived, like Warren Buffett (see my post 192).
| 218 |
LGoPs Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:44:38pm |
re: #203 Iron Fist
That is never going to happen. It just isn't. Sure it'd be nice if no one wanted to do smack, but they do. They are going to continue to want to no matter what kind of feel-good rehab you send them to. They are going to continue to do so if you put them in prison.
The only way for an addict to clean up is if they really want to. They havce to want it more than anything, and most of them don't want to at all.
Which raises the question of when, where, why, and how did Barrack Obama get clean of drugs? Something that no so-called journalist has had the balls to ask yet.
It's a poor example but I was like that with cigarettes. All the talking and cajoling in the world wasn't going to make me stop. Until I wanted to. And when I finally got to that point, after about 30 years of smoking, I did stop. It wasn't easy but it was absolutely impossible to quit before I reached that mental point.
| 219 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:45:01pm |
re: #214 Russkilitlover
Don't forget Charles as the Right Tackle to bring down pretenders!
Charles is the driver way up there in back with a view
| 220 |
LGoPs Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:45:54pm |
re: #213 buzzsawmonkey
I love paraquat floors.
I had a paraquat when I was a kid. He flew out the back door and we never saw him again.
| 221 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:46:05pm |
re: #175 Buck
You are mad that Bill Gates is currently the greatest philantrapist, and that he has announced that he plans to give away his fortune to charity?
Was there a sarc tag missing?
Not at all. If he wants to give his fortune to charity, that's great. I'm talking about people who would like to leave their money to their children or other heirs, but the current inheritance tax diminishes their gift by half or more. Not all wealth can be sheltered in a trust. For example, many heirs are forced to sell a business or land to pay inheritance taxes. Aside from the taxes, being forced to sell in a down market may further reduce their inheritance. All that wealth has already been taxed once. Inheritance taxes amount to social engineering by disrupting the transfer of wealth to the next generation.
| 222 |
Russkilitlover Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:46:31pm |
re: #208 LGoPs
True leaders IMO are ordinary people that rise to the circumstances and challenges that confront them. And I don't think you can plan for greatness or contrive it. I have an aversion to those that are overly ambitious and seek out greatness. People like that should be shunned and avoided and certainly not put in power.
I felt that way about Hillary and definitiely feel that way about Obama. Anybody that wants power that badly sholdl be kept as far away from it as possible.
Upding...Dang - can only do it once! America was built by the ordinary doing the extraordinary. This is (was) our greatness. Anyone who wants to diminish that needs to do some explaining!
| 223 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:46:48pm |
re: #218 LGoPs
It's a poor example but I was like that with cigarettes. All the talking and cajoling in the world wasn't going to make me stop. Until I wanted to. And when I finally got to that point, after about 30 years of smoking, I did stop. It wasn't easy but it was absolutely impossible to quit before I reached that mental point.
I agree. No one can make you stop. Only you have the ability and will power to stop an addictive habit.
| 224 |
yochanan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:46:59pm |
re: #220 LGoPs
i used to have a pair of quats but they reproduced and now i have a lot more.
| 225 |
Russkilitlover Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:47:11pm |
| 226 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:47:29pm |
re: #197 albusteve
re: #201 Son of the Black Dog
Let's not blame the victims. Like those scum in Mexico who blame the US for the activities of the drug cartels. Agent Orange is an awfully toxic carcinogenic defoliant. But it's not half as bad as heroin and the stinking scum who live off its avails with not a care for the damage they do to the end users and their families. So long as we tolerate and even encourage the heroin industry in Afghanistan (and Mexico) we are complicit and all our platitudes about freedom and democracy ring very, very hollow.
| 227 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:47:42pm |
re: #205 albusteve
I'll frigging lead...3 wood on the right, lawhawk on the left...tfk and ironfist out front to clear they way...sharmuta and KT in back to keep it honest...no problemo
Thanks a fucking lot... I don't even get court jester?
| 228 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:48:10pm |
re: #216 buzzsawmonkey
heh.
And I hate to say this, but in general the females of the political class are a lot harder to take than the males.
/I seriously despise Barbara Boxer and I have stories about Feinstien that would curl your toes.
| 229 |
LGoPs Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:48:11pm |
re: #224 yochanan
i used to have a pair of quats but they reproduced and now i have a lot more.
LOL...
:
| 230 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:48:50pm |
re: #139 wahabicorridor
ALERT ALERT ALERT
I keep one of those freebie yahoo email accounts.
Got this in my inbox. I'm not buying it.
Account Alert
I had several freebie accounts on hotmail, go.com, and other services, that I stopped using because of the SPAM.
I still have a Yahoo email account after 10 years, and their SPAM filter is pretty good.
DO NOT RESPOND to that SPAM. At the very best case scenario, it will be a signal that it is a "live" account which means you will get tons more SPAM.
| 231 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:49:21pm |
I think god put Jupiter there to suck up all those nasty thing which could obliterate this planet that I like to call Earf.
| 232 |
IslandLibertarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:49:32pm |
re: #206 zombie
He never admitted to heroin specifically. Just cocaine and marijuana, and other unspecified "drugs." We don't know if he ever was an addict or not.
I'd say he was a recreational user. I've known lots of them. Their drug use never interferes with their professional life. As for addicts, they don't get elected dog catcher unless they get "REAL" clean. Know a few of them too. (not dog catchers, addicts)
| 234 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:49:40pm |
re: #227 Walter L. Newton
Thanks a fucking lot... I don't even get court jester?
what?...your in my right pocket, you sassy bitch...leaders need inspiration...so when we come to a fork in the road we'll take it
| 235 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:50:34pm |
re: #153 wahabicorridor
Oh, yeah, I should say that the return address on the supposed Yahoo 'customer service' account is - get this - accountmailcenter@gmail.com
Wait, wait, wait, they want your PASSWORD? OK give them this password: eatme.
| 236 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:51:05pm |
re: #232 IslandLibertarian
Patrick Kennedy being the exception that proves the rule?
| 238 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:52:19pm |
re: #232 IslandLibertarian
I'd say he was a recreational user. I've known lots of them. Their drug use never interferes with their professional life. As for addicts, they don't get elected dog catcher unless they get "REAL" clean. Know a few of them too. (not dog catchers, addicts)
Is "dog catcher" (or in new PCspeak, "animal control officer") still an elected office in any districts?
| 239 |
yochanan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:52:22pm |
re: #233 buzzsawmonkey
when the sun used to come up the 'parakuats' used to get very loud esp if your father had 500 of them.
they aren't called love byoids for nothing.
| 240 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:52:26pm |
re: #226 Spare O'Lake
re: #201 Son of the Black Dog
Let's not blame the victims. Like those scum in Mexico who blame the US for the activities of the drug cartels. Agent Orange is an awfully toxic carcinogenic defoliant. But it's not half as bad as heroin and the stinking scum who live off its avails with not a care for the damage they do to the end users and their families. So long as we tolerate and even encourage the heroin industry in Afghanistan (and Mexico) we are complicit and all our platitudes about freedom and democracy ring very, very hollow.
everybody is a victim...but the sellers live in the Virgin Islands and the growers are eating dirt...it's a complex issue...end users have choices too, more than some illiterate poppy rancher...get some perspective
| 241 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:52:53pm |
re: #230 Alouette
I had several freebie accounts on hotmail, go.com, and other services, that I stopped using because of the SPAM.
I still have a Yahoo email account after 10 years, and their SPAM filter is pretty good.
DO NOT RESPOND to that SPAM. At the very best case scenario, it will be a signal that it is a "live" account which means you will get tons more SPAM.
There's no frigging way I'm replying to that email. On my 'everyday' email acct w/earthlink, I've received mail that says my account is overdue and I have to update my billing info. Looks just like Earthlin's cust. svc. email. And it's all bullshit.
/do people really think I'm going to give out my password?
| 243 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:53:26pm |
re: #231 BatGuano
I think god put Jupiter there to suck up all those nasty thing which could obliterate this planet that I like to call Earf.
Where was Jupiter on 11/4/2008 ?
Slacker.
| 244 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:53:38pm |
re: #237 buzzsawmonkey
The pellet with the poison's in the vessel with the pestle
The chalice from the palace has the brew that is true
you are now the official Policy Adjuster...but you'll take a pay cut
| 245 |
yochanan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:54:14pm |
re: #235 Alouette
do you have the source for the HEBREW version of the 'don't tread on me' flag?
| 246 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:54:44pm |
| 247 |
Russkilitlover Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:55:02pm |
re: #237 buzzsawmonkey
The pellet with the poison's in the vessel with the pestle
The chalice from the palace has the brew that is true
One of my faves. Never gets old!
I am a fan of Russian literature (can you tell?) One of my favorite authors is Gogol. My acquaintances think Russian Lit is dreary, then I ask them if they like the "Inspector General," (the movie) they all say "YES" and I remind them it's based on a Gogol story ;} Love their expressions. "Dead Souls," another "gloomy" title and a riotous, ripping yarn.
| 249 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:55:31pm |
re: #243 SasquatchOnSteroids
Where was Jupiter on 11/4/2008 ?
Slacker.
On that occasion the bastard was in a voting booth pulling the lever for Obama.
| 250 |
IslandLibertarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:55:34pm |
re: #236 Lincolntf
Patrick Kennedy being the exception that proves the rule?
Kennedys don't get elected...the ascend into office...
/I'm dead wrong about closet addicts not getting elected...I just don't think "0" is an active addict.
| 251 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:55:36pm |
re: #235 Alouette
Wait, wait, wait, they want your PASSWORD
Yeah, kind of a dead giveaway right there. LOL! As for the supposed earthlink scam, wanting updated credit card info was what most people would call 'a clue'.
I just laugh my ass off.
| 252 |
CyanSnowHawk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:55:45pm |
re: #228 wahabicorridor
heh.
And I hate to say this, but in general the females of the political class are a lot harder to take than the males.
/I seriously despise Barbara Boxer and I have stories about Feinstien that would curl your toes.
The bar they had to clear for entry was a lot higher. The female politicians that are starting out today don't face much more than their male counterparts, so in thirty years that difference at the top levels should be minimal.
| 253 |
Son of the Black Dog Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:55:50pm |
re: #240 albusteve
everybody is a victim...but the sellers live in the Virgin Islands and the growers are eating dirt...it's a complex issue...end users have choices too, more than some illiterate poppy rancher...get some perspective
If you're aiming at me, please read back through the thread. Thanks.
| 254 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:56:08pm |
re: #207 Buck
re: #182 EmmmieGNo, she thinks that if he has the right to choose where his money is going, so should the rest of us.
Charity = Family?
Really?
If she, or anyone one wants to give their money to charity, they can... But I don't think giving money to your family should be deductible.
EmmmieG is correct, that is my basic point. Also, deductible is different from exempt. If you give money or other assets to your family during your lifetime, there is an annual limit (which I believe right now is around $12K). If I had that kind of money, my husband and I could give each of our kids $24K ($12K each) every year. Since we have 3 kids, that would be $72K per year removed from our estate and therefore not subject to estate taxes. That may or may not be an effective way to avoid those taxes -- what if one of my kids were a drug addict, or I was concerned about providing for my own end of life care? After all, my grandmother lived to be 90. I'm just saying that all that money has been taxed once already, and it should be my decision about what to do with it when I'm gone.
| 255 |
Airedale Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:56:37pm |
Oh WOW
...bet that's gonna leave a giant red spot...
| 256 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:57:09pm |
Ok, time for NCIS, gotta hop.
later lizards...
| 257 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:57:33pm |
| 258 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:57:38pm |
re: #253 Son of the Black Dog
If you're aiming at me, please read back through the thread. Thanks.
just replying to whatever pops up
| 259 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:58:36pm |
re: #248 Iron Fist
True. IIRC, he denied having done herion. However, shouldn't we know if our current President was a drug addict? He's admitted use, but has been reticent about any details. Fortunately, our intrepid newshounds are holding him to the high standards that we expect of people who apply for jobs at Home Depot, and are grilling him about his drug use. He might even be required to take a drug test.
[/Heavy]
This is compared to the media's performance around the previous CinC, who they hounded for years about being a former coke addict and alcoholic. They used to play it up as a sign of weakness that he'd once done drugs, but when Obama lights up a cigarette, they simply remark about how stressful the presidency is and how at least he's hanging tough and not skipping out on the job.
My eyes roll any faster, they'll pop out of my skull.
| 261 |
Airedale Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:58:49pm |
forgot to click quote before my reply
re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I said "BY JOVE" not into it!
Oh WOW
...bet that's gonna leave a giant red spot...
| 262 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:59:18pm |
re: #249 BatGuano
On that occasion the bastard was in a voting booth pulling the lever for Obama.
Gasbags take care of each other, do they not.
| 264 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:00:02pm |
re: #251 wahabicorridor
Yeah, kind of a dead giveaway right there. LOL! As for the supposed earthlink scam, wanting updated credit card info was what most people would call 'a clue'.
I just laugh my ass off.
I just got a great offer in the mail! I've been selected to be a mystery shopper, earning at least $400 a week just to shop in my local stores! My first assignment is to send $2,990 by Western Union to the address provided. Very helpfully, they've enclosed a check for $3,670.90 to cover my costs. I do have to call them to activate the check before I deposit it, but that doesn't sound like a big deal. Woo-hoo! I'm gonna be rich!
/real letter
//you bet it's going to the Post Office Inspector General tomorrow
| 265 |
IslandLibertarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:00:07pm |
re: #240 albusteve
everybody is a victim...but the sellers live in the Virgin Islands and the growers are eating dirt...it's a complex issue...end users have choices too, more than some illiterate poppy rancher...get some perspective
Imagine the Afghan poppy grower seeing the New York junkie, in his tenement room (with running water and a toilet, TV, boob-box, clothes) and thinking "This guy has it made. I provide a product he wants."
| 266 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:00:16pm |
I would support a drug test for all elected officials at every level of govt...no big deal...right?
| 267 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:00:28pm |
re: #249 BatGuano
On that occasion the bastard was in a voting booth pulling the lever for Obama.
Speaking of pulling the lever. Has anyone pulled a lever? I've been voting for thirty-five years and have never had to pull a lever. I always punched or wrote-in.
| 268 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:01:36pm |
| 269 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:02:03pm |
re: #263 Iron Fist
I think "0" has gotten a pass on an issue that would have derailed a less, shall we say, divine candidate.
44 has gotten a pass on almost everything. I can state my theory why, but I suppose it is the same as yours.
| 270 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:02:10pm |
re: #267 BatGuano
Speaking of pulling the lever. Has anyone pulled a lever? I've been voting for thirty-five years and have never had to pull a lever. I always punched or wrote-in.
Our old machines used to have a lever that you flipped from one position to another position to vote.
Is flipping a lever the same as pulling a lever?
| 271 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:02:16pm |
re: #208 LGoPs
True leaders IMO are ordinary people that rise to the circumstances and challenges that confront them. And I don't think you can plan for greatness or contrive it. I have an aversion to those that are overly ambitious and seek out greatness. People like that should be shunned and avoided and certainly not put in power.
I felt that way about Hillary and definitiely feel that way about Obama. Anybody that wants power that badly sholdl be kept as far away from it as possible.
Evening, Lizards!
LGoPs;
I have heard this mythos again and again, and I must respectfully disagree. Benjamin Franklin, Tom Jefferson, James Monroe, John Adams, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, &c., &c. & ad infinitum. These were not ordinary men. They were extraordinarily intelligent men, with vision, drive, and a desire to make their world a better place. Greatness was thrust upon them not because they got lucky but because they worked their asses off for the greater good as they perceived it.
| 272 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:02:25pm |
re: #267 BatGuano
Speaking of pulling the lever. Has anyone pulled a lever? I've been voting for thirty-five years and have never had to pull a lever. I always punched or wrote-in.
True. Paper fill ins and Electronic.
| 274 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:02:46pm |
re: #265 IslandLibertarian
Imagine the Afghan poppy grower seeing the New York junkie, in his tenement room (with running water and a toilet, TV, boob-box, clothes) and thinking "This guy has it made. I provide a product he wants."
that is the classical stereotype addict..and that's true...but there are many addicts with money to burn that live very nice lifestyles...
| 275 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:03:24pm |
| 276 |
IslandLibertarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:03:26pm |
re: #237 buzzsawmonkey
The pellet with the poison's in the vessel with the pestle
The chalice from the palace has the brew that is true
no wait, there's been a change.
The pellet with the poison is in the vessel with the castle.
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true.
No, wait...
| 278 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:03:47pm |
re: #267 BatGuano
Speaking of pulling the lever. Has anyone pulled a lever? I've been voting for thirty-five years and have never had to pull a lever. I always punched or wrote-in.
My district has always used punch cards or paper ballots. I have never used one of those "lever" machines.
| 279 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:04:11pm |
re: #267 BatGuano
Speaking of pulling the lever. Has anyone pulled a lever? I've been voting for thirty-five years and have never had to pull a lever. I always punched or wrote-in.
I did in my early voting years in NJ, in the early '80s. You would push down a little lever above your candidate's name. When you were through, you'd pull a big red lever that registered all your choices (and opened the curtain to the voting booth). I found it delightfully old-fashioned. Since I've been in Georgia, it's been either punchcards or touchscreens.
| 280 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:04:29pm |
re:#240 albusteve
everybody is a victim...but the sellers live in the Virgin Islands and the growers are eating dirt...it's a complex issue...end users have choices too, more than some illiterate poppy rancher...get some perspective
Opium is the opiate of the American masses.
I don't give a flying shit about the poppy ranchers - they are part of the heroin supply chain and deserve to be stopped. Cold.
I care about the fact that hard drugs are killing our kids.
| 281 |
Russkilitlover Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:04:55pm |
re: #271 austin_blue
Evening, Lizards!
LGoPs;
I have heard this mythos again and again, and I must respectfully disagree. Benjamin Franklin, Tom Jefferson, James Monroe, John Adams, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, &c., &c. & ad infinitum. These were not ordinary men. They were extraordinarily intelligent men, with vision, drive, and a desire to make their world a better place. Greatness was thrust upon them not because they got lucky but because they worked their asses off for the greater good as they perceived it.
You've just described all the "ordinary" folk who have made America what she is today. Ordinary rising to the extraordinary.
| 282 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:05:41pm |
re: #273 Iron Fist
I had to piss test before I could take the job I currently have. It only seems right that if we are going to put them in charge of the ship of state we at least make sure they could get a job at Wal Mart (who also drug tests applicants, IIRC).
drug tests...and living with the legislation they pass...no govt exemptions, they work for us, not the other way around
| 283 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:05:45pm |
re: #248 Iron Fist
True. IIRC, he denied having done herion. However, shouldn't we know if our current President was a drug addict? He's admitted use, but has been reticent about any details. Fortunately, our intrepid newshounds are holding him to the high standards that we expect of people who apply for jobs at Home Depot, and are grilling him about his drug use. He might even be required to take a drug test.
[/Heavy]
And of course, you demanded the same thing of recovering alcoholic George w. Bush.
Just sayin'.
| 284 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:05:49pm |
re: #280 Spare O'Lake
re:#240 albusteve
Opium is the opiate of the American masses.
I don't give a flying shit about the poppy ranchers - they are part of the heroin supply chain and deserve to be stopped. Cold.
I care about the fact that hard drugs are killing our kids.
No demand no supplier. Big demand many suppliers.
| 285 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:06:03pm |
re: #266 albusteve
I would support a drug test for all elected officials at every level of govt...no big deal...right?
I don't care what they do, so long as they're willing to share with the rest of us. Obviously it's gotta be some good shit if they honestly think this health care "reform" bill is a good idea.
| 287 |
ssn697 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:06:42pm |
I just sent a thank you ecard to Jupiter. Thanks for all your gravity!
| 288 |
Russkilitlover Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:06:50pm |
Shoot. Gotta go. Neighbors at the door with two bottles of wine...
| 289 |
Jewels (AKA Julian) Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:06:58pm |
ot: Gunga Dan is at it again
[Link: online.wsj.com...]
| 290 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:07:11pm |
re: #288 Russkilitlover
Shoot. Gotta go. Neighbors at the door with two bottles of wine...
Later. Lucky you.
| 291 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:08:01pm |
re: #281 Russkilitlover
You've just described all the "ordinary" folk who have made America what she is today. Ordinary rising to the extraordinary.
If you think an ordinary man is born with the brain power that those folks had, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn...
| 292 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:08:04pm |
re: #279 doppelganglander
I did in my early voting years in NJ, in the early '80s. You would push down a little lever above your candidate's name. When you were through, you'd pull a big red lever that registered all your choices (and opened the curtain to the voting booth). I found it delightfully old-fashioned. Since I've been in Georgia, it's been either punchcards or touchscreens.
Thanks. To this day, "they" still speak of pulling a lever.
| 293 |
ssn697 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:08:12pm |
I went to the Creationist Museum today. Thousands of people there. I lost a little more hope for the human race...
| 295 |
IslandLibertarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:08:33pm |
re: #263 Iron Fist
I think "0" has gotten a pass on an issue that would have derailed a less, shall we say, divine candidate.
I'd say a shoe-in more than a pass.
We've been saddled with a pompous community organizing poser.
| 296 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:08:36pm |
Here's a picture of the lever-type machines. New York State is the only place where they're still in use.
| 297 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:08:37pm |
re: #277 buzzsawmonkey
Jews not excluded...I love it...one of your better makeovers
| 298 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:09:04pm |
mmm Do I like the new NCIS? I'm not sure...
| 299 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:09:47pm |
re: #275 SasquatchOnSteroids
I assume that everyone is younger than me on LGF. It's usually true!
| 300 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:09:59pm |
re: #293 ssn697
I went to the Creationist Museum today. Thousands of people there. I lost a little more hope for the human race...
What did you think of it? Funny or sad or just bizarre?
| 301 |
saberry0530 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:10:37pm |
re: #298 HoosierHoops
mmm Do I like the new NCIS? I'm not sure...
Careful there Hoops, Gibbs might realign that noggin of yours!
///
| 302 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:10:57pm |
re: #293 ssn697
I went to the Creationist Museum today. Thousands of people there. I lost a little more hope for the human race...
They have some good science there. Sadly, it's mainly in the state of the art shitters.
| 303 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:11:03pm |
re: #300 austin_blue
What did you think of it? Funny or sad or just bizarre?
I have not been there, but I would hazard a guess that it is all three rolled into one.
| 304 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:12:02pm |
re: #280 Spare O'Lake
re:#240 albusteve
Opium is the opiate of the American masses.
I don't give a flying shit about the poppy ranchers - they are part of the heroin supply chain and deserve to be stopped. Cold.
I care about the fact that hard drugs are killing our kids.
there would be no supply chain if there were no users...hard drugs are not killing my children...people have choices and when you make bad choices that is on you...shoot somebody dead and blame it on the gun maker?...is that where you are going?
| 305 |
ssn697 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:12:07pm |
re: #300 austin_blue
I thought it would be funny. The jam packed parking lot, attacks on Darwin and just plain straight up lying was sad. It really did depress me for several hours.
The place was FULL of Christian youth groups.
| 306 |
Buck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:12:09pm |
re: #254 doppelganglander
I'm just saying that all that money has been taxed once already, and it should be my decision about what to do with it when I'm gone.
OK, the IRS has a separate department, and separate computer system just to keep track of the taxes Bill Gates pays every year.
He chooses to give huge amounts of money to charity. More than any person in history. He also chooses not to make a big production out of it... no buildings named after him, although the Seattle airport did have a whole section called the B GATES.
You can be against the inheritance tax, no problem, but I just don't see why you would knock Bill Gates. He probably pays more tax every day than you do in a year. OK that might be an exaggeration. however the point is that he is not avoiding taxes when he gives to charity, he really wants to give to charity.
| 307 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:12:23pm |
re: #301 saberry0530
Careful there Hoops, Gibbs might realign that noggin of yours!
///
Smack! Might need a few reruns... I've seen every old one a thousand times...
Love NCIS...but
| 308 |
snowcrash Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:12:38pm |
re: #296 doppelganglander
Used that type in Boston 20 years ago. Step in, flip lever and the curtains closed! Very mechanical. Don't know what is used now.
| 309 |
freetoken Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:12:40pm |
re: #190 buzzsawmonkey
What do you mean by "modernism?"
post industrial revolution societies, such as our own
| 310 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:13:02pm |
re: #303 Erik The Red
I have not been there, but I would hazard a guess that it is all three rolled into one.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I just cannot imagine kids with their faces lighting up as some dude in furs (furs!) runs away from a T. Rex. I mean, it's exciting, but it's such scientific shyte!
| 311 |
VegasRick Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:14:50pm |
re: #310 austin_blue
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I just cannot imagine kids with their faces lighting up as some dude in furs (furs!) runs away from a T. Rex. I mean, it's exciting, but it's such scientific shyte!
What?! What!? Ya mean the Flintstones wasn't real!?
Dayum!
/
| 312 |
ssn697 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:14:57pm |
re: #302 Walter L. Newton
They have some good science there. Sadly, it's mainly in the state of the art shitters.
Oh and you can get your photo taken and handed to you anywhere. Just check the non stop advertising.
The garden outside was pretty. I guess they have that going for them. A LOT of "police" presence. It just makes me sad to see the idea of an all powerful being prostituted like that.
I never will understand why God and Evolution can't go together. Makes perfect sense to me.
| 314 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:15:02pm |
re: #310 austin_blue
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I just cannot imagine kids with their faces lighting up as some dude in furs (furs!) runs away from a T. Rex. I mean, it's exciting, but it's such scientific shyte!
Viva Rock Vegas !
| 315 |
saberry0530 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:15:13pm |
re: #307 HoosierHoops
Smack! Might need a few reruns... I've seen every old one a thousand times...
Love NCIS...but
Wife got me hooked a few years ago. Now we have all the seasons on DVD
| 317 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:15:20pm |
He's screwing us coming and going...
The Obama administration is working with its allies on a package of incentives to persuade North Korea to abandon its nuclear programs.
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
| 318 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:15:24pm |
re: #306 Buck
OK, the IRS has a separate department, and separate computer system just to keep track of the taxes Bill Gates pays every year.
He chooses to give huge amounts of money to charity. More than any person in history. He also chooses not to make a big production out of it... no buildings named after him, although the Seattle airport did have a whole section called the B GATES.
You can be against the inheritance tax, no problem, but I just don't see why you would knock Bill Gates. He probably pays more tax every day than you do in a year. OK that might be an exaggeration. however the point is that he is not avoiding taxes when he gives to charity, he really wants to give to charity.
I wasn't knocking Bill Gates. I do admire his commitment to charitable giving. I am not crazy about his stance on the inheritance tax. I feel the same way about Warren Buffet, another generous giver, who supports the inheritance tax (and, inexplicably, Barack Obama). I think it's possible to admire or agree with someone in some things while still disliking their position on other topics.
Oh, and the "B gates" -- that's funny!
| 319 |
gearhead Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:15:29pm |
re: #308 snowcrash
Used that type in Boston 20 years ago. Step in, flip lever and the curtains closed! Very mechanical. Don't know what is used now.
I believe I used that kind to vote for George H.W. Bush in '90, in a suburb of Birmingham.
| 320 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:15:45pm |
re: #287 ssn697
I just sent a thank you ecard to Jupiter. Thanks for all your gravity!
Jupiter is a good friend to have-- it has a lot of pull.
| 322 |
ssn697 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:16:44pm |
re: #320 calcajun
Jupiter is a good friend to have-- it has a lot of pull.
Hi Yo! Rimshot back atcha ;-)
| 323 |
gearhead Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:16:50pm |
Are we sure someone hasn't found a way to blame the Jupiter impact on global warming?
| 324 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:16:51pm |
re: #312 ssn697
Oh and you can get your photo taken and handed to you anywhere. Just check the non stop advertising.
The garden outside was pretty. I guess they have that going for them. A LOT of "police" presence. It just makes me sad to see the idea of an all powerful being prostituted like that.
I never will understand why God and Evolution can't go together. Makes perfect sense to me.
I'm an atheist, so it doesn't make any sense to me. But, belief is belief, knowledge is science, and in the least, these people have a real problem seeing the difference.
| 325 |
IslandLibertarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:17:04pm |
re: #274 albusteve
that is the classical stereotype addict..and that's true...but there are many addicts with money to burn that live very nice lifestyles...
oh, I've known a few of those rich junkies myself...money to burn and brain cells too.
But I was making a comparison of quality of lives.
| 326 |
Clubsec Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:17:06pm |
Creationist Museum? WTF?
Ask a simple question of the 6K'ers ... Have you ever read Origin of Species? or perhaps Voyage of the Beagle?
As for Jupiter the reported reponse 'Twas but a trifle' nothing to see here move along.
| 327 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:17:25pm |
re: #311 VegasRick
What?! What!? Ya mean the Flintstones wasn't real!?
Dayum!
/
Heh. That's funny. By the time the Flintstones rolled around, the dinos (including Dino) were domesticated, and they had really cool cars...
Gawd, I remember when it was on prime time...
| 328 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:17:42pm |
re: #317 Walter L. Newton
He's screwing us coming and going...
The Obama administration is working with its allies on a package of incentives to persuade North Korea to abandon its nuclear programs.
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
Capt. Fantasy at the helm...he just steps further into the shit
| 330 |
VegasRick Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:18:11pm |
re: #323 gearhead
Are we sure someone hasn't found a way to blame the Jupiter impact on global warming?
Well, look at the picture again. We (the Earth) are like right there, not doing a damn thing to stop it!
/
| 331 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:18:11pm |
re: #320 calcajun
Jupiter is a good friend to have-- it has a lot of pull.
Jupiter was the inspiration for Battle of the Bands.
| 332 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:18:17pm |
re: #315 saberry0530
Wife got me hooked a few years ago. Now we have all the seasons on DVD
Our bedroom has Law and Order on 24/7...It's the law...
I hang out in the Den...*wink*
| 333 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:18:32pm |
re: #312 ssn697
Not that I was asked, but I think god and evolution are incompatible: That is why they don't get together.
| 334 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:18:51pm |
re: #328 albusteve
Capt. Fantasy at the helm...he just steps further into the shit
I prefer Captain Howdy... interesting image.
| 335 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:19:45pm |
re: #325 IslandLibertarian
oh, I've known a few of those rich junkies myself...money to burn and brain cells too.
But I was making a comparison of quality of lives.
I knew that...regards
| 336 |
ssn697 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:19:51pm |
re: #324 Walter L. Newton
I'm an atheist, so it doesn't make any sense to me. But, belief is belief, knowledge is science, and in the least, these people have a real problem seeing the difference.
re: #324 Walter L. Newton
I'm an atheist, so it doesn't make any sense to me. But, belief is belief, knowledge is science, and in the least, these people have a real problem seeing the difference.
I believe in a power greater than us. I just don't buy into the bible, koran (insert your old human scripture here).
The idea of some multi-billion year old power happy to plant a seed and watch it grow for millions of years is personally the best I can come up with.
The idea that million year old bones are a trick of the devil, and the "world wide flood" spread those bones all over the earth is NOT even remotely satisfying or believable.
Damn, that place really put me in a funk.
| 337 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:20:15pm |
Oh, good grief. The Hysterical Channel has a show on about what would happen if a black hole were to come to Earth.
| 340 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:20:50pm |
re: #336 ssn697
I believe in a power greater than us. I just don't buy into the bible, koran (insert your old human scripture here).
The idea of some multi-billion year old power happy to plant a seed and watch it grow for millions of years is personally the best I can come up with.
The idea that million year old bones are a trick of the devil, and the "world wide flood" spread those bones all over the earth is NOT even remotely satisfying or believable.
Damn, that place really put me in a funk.
It wouldn't even make a good Sat. morning children's show.
| 341 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:20:58pm |
re: #312 ssn697
Oh and you can get your photo taken and handed to you anywhere. Just check the non stop advertising.
The garden outside was pretty. I guess they have that going for them. A LOT of "police" presence. It just makes me sad to see the idea of an all powerful being prostituted like that.
I never will understand why God and Evolution can't go together. Makes perfect sense to me.
Why were there a lot of cops?
| 342 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:21:03pm |
re: #337 MandyManners
Oh, good grief. The Hysterical Channel has a show on about what would happen if a black hole were to come to Earth.
He's already here
| 343 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:21:11pm |
re: #324 Walter L. Newton
I'm an atheist, so it doesn't make any sense to me. But, belief is belief, knowledge is science, and in the least, these people have a real problem seeing the difference.
I'm a Deist. I believe God created...evolution, and didn't f*&k around with things afterward. Why should he/she? I mean if God is in fact omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent, there wouldn't be any messes to clean up, would there? He/she would already *know* what was going to happen!
| 344 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:21:13pm |
re: #337 MandyManners
Oh, good grief. The Hysterical Channel has a show on about what would happen if a black hole were to come to Earth.
It is here.
It is passing legislation.
RUUUNNN !
| 345 |
hazzyday Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:21:15pm |
re: #306 Buck
As a percentage of income I have a friend who has given away much more $$$ then Bill Gates. And they don't have the luxury to live as well as him. I think there are a lot of people like that.
| 346 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:21:36pm |
re: #337 MandyManners
Oh, good grief. The Hysterical Channel has a show on about what would happen if a black hole were to come to Earth.
| 347 |
hazzyday Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:21:40pm |
| 348 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:21:40pm |
re: #339 buzzsawmonkey
For starters, Obama would apologize to it for something.
And, blame it on Bush.
| 349 |
saberry0530 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:21:55pm |
re: #332 HoosierHoops
Our bedroom has Law and Order on 24/7...It's the law...
I hang out in the Den...*wink*
Are you sure that you aren't at my house?? Law and order SVU is on in the bedroom and NCIS is on in the TV room.
TOO F"IN WEIRD
| 350 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:21:56pm |
| 351 |
ssn697 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:22:00pm |
re: #333 BatGuano
Not that I was asked, but I think god and evolution are incompatible: That is why they don't get together.
The biblical "God" maybe. The idea of some higher power? Yeah, that kinda works for me.
I am of the opinion that I don't have the slightest idea what may account for some of the Universe over the last several billion years, but a book from a couple thousand years ago absolutely DOESN'T make any sense at all.
| 352 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:22:08pm |
re: #337 MandyManners
Oh, good grief. The Hysterical Channel has a show on about what would happen if a black hole were to come to Earth.
What-- a show about the growing unchecked power of our government?
| 353 |
gearhead Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:22:12pm |
re: #337 MandyManners
Oh, good grief. The Hysterical Channel has a show on about what would happen if a black hole were to come to Earth.
But that seems so on topic for the HISTORY Channel...
| 354 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:22:14pm |
| 355 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:22:21pm |
I suppose it's about time to figure out what's going to happen...
What health reform means for you
The bills are in flux, but it's time to dig in. Here's what the big idea in Washington could mean if you get insurance at work, buy it on your own, or have none at all.
I haven't paid much attention to the details because everybody's so full of shit but I guess this might be a good primer.
| 356 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:22:22pm |
re: #337 MandyManners
Oh, good grief. The Hysterical Channel has a show on about what would happen if a black hole were to come to Earth.
The Discovery Channel has a documentary about the Titanic. Much better imho.
| 357 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:22:29pm |
| 358 |
brookly red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:22:49pm |
re: #337 MandyManners
Oh, good grief. The Hysterical Channel has a show on about what would happen if a black hole were to come to Earth.
we already have one congress, the odds of that happening again are astronomical.
| 359 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:22:50pm |
it's raining and windy and quite cool in ABQ...FINALLY!...the monsoon has arrived
| 360 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:23:23pm |
| 361 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:23:24pm |
| 362 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:23:28pm |
| 363 |
Clubsec Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:23:38pm |
Black holes. STAY AWAY from the Horizon. It's very dark there.
| 364 |
VegasRick Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:23:39pm |
re: #356 Erik The Red
The Discovery Channel has a documentary about the Titanic. Much better imho.
Much better ending!
/
| 365 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:23:57pm |
re: #169 buzzsawmonkey
At this point, I would settle for "average," given the below-average types we seem stuck with.
And, sorry to say, the "specialists/professionals" do pose a threat when they are stark raving bonkers.
This is a side show.
Holdren does not set policy. The real governmental scientific positions are the directors of the DOE and the NIH
As I said before, you will not get a better scientist than Steven Chu. Raynard S. Kington is no lightweight either.
Holdren said a bunch of admittedly obnoxious stuff in the seventies that he has since distanced himself from. He has also had a very respectable career as a research scientist and is a former president of the AAAS.
However,
He does not set policy. The real governmental scientific positions are the directors of the DOE and the NIH
There is way too much hype over this.
If people want to get their panties in a bunch over science. There are real issues we could be shouting about, like how about the fact that we have, even after decades of the medical community shouting about it, and several well publicized scares, no real infrastructure to combat a major outbreak. Perhaps we could argue how AGW is not going to be fixed by cap and trade. But to do that, this side of the aisle needs to get to the point of even accepting that AGW is real. While we are at it, what about the fact that we are shrugging off research into both fundamental particles and fusion? Controlled fusion really would be a panacea for the worlds energy problems and it has none of the waste problems associated with fission. That si deeply important research and we have cut it to the bone - even to the extent of trying to back out of treaties.
What we see with the politicization of Holdren is nothing more than shouting "I hate Obama!" Ok great it is a way for right wingers to seethe together, but it does not actually address any real science policy issues. I don't like Obama either. But all of this political masturbation is not science and it is not science policy either.
| 366 |
ssn697 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:24:02pm |
re: #340 Walter L. Newton
I remember being 9 years old and someone trying to convince me it WAS a good cartoon. Even at that age it made no sense/made me laugh.
It is sad to see grown adults pushing that crap on kids in a "it's an amusement park for GOD!!!" setting.
Sigh
| 367 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:24:05pm |
| 369 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:24:15pm |
re: #304 albusteve
there would be no supply chain if there were no users...hard drugs are not killing my children...people have choices and when you make bad choices that is on you...shoot somebody dead and blame it on the gun maker?...is that where you are going?
That makes as much sense as saying that there would be no users if there were no supply.
Wake up and stop blaming yourselves for everything that's wrong with the world.
Viet Nam defoliation - America's fault
Heroin/Cocaine - America's fault
OK, let's just join the Apology Tour and slit our own wrists while we're at it.
| 370 |
brookly red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:24:39pm |
wait a second... dosn't that swiss contraption make black holes?
| 371 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:24:56pm |
re: #353 gearhead
But that seems so on topic for the HISTORY Channel...
It cracks me up to hear the scientists say "will" when talking about it, as if it's a freakin' certainty.
| 372 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:25:32pm |
re: #356 Erik The Red
The Discovery Channel has a documentary about the Titanic. Much better imho.
Gonna' check it out.
| 373 |
lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:25:45pm |
re: #318 doppelganglander
I wasn't knocking Bill Gates. I do admire his commitment to charitable giving. I am not crazy about his stance on the inheritance tax. I feel the same way about Warren Buffet, another generous giver, who supports the inheritance tax (and, inexplicably, Barack Obama). I think it's possible to admire or agree with someone in some things while still disliking their position on other topics.
Oh, and the "B gates" -- that's funny!
I don't know anything about Gates, but I can say from personal experience that his former partner, Paul Allen, is an asshole.
| 374 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:25:56pm |
re: #358 brookly red
we already have one congress, the odds of that happening again are astronomical.
GMTA.
| 375 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:26:07pm |
re: #364 VegasRick
Much better ending!
/
If you're a Communist. Yeah, more peons from steerage died than the snotty rich effetes, but they were so much collateral damage. /
| 376 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:26:12pm |
re: #351 ssn697
The biblical "God" maybe. The idea of some higher power? Yeah, that kinda works for me.
I am of the opinion that I don't have the slightest idea what may account for some of the Universe over the last several billion years, but a book from a couple thousand years ago absolutely DOESN'T make any sense at all.
The first chapter of Genesis makes no sense to me either. A higher power that uses non teleological processes make no sense. I am sitting here beside myself shrugging.
| 377 |
hazzyday Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:26:15pm |
re: #355 Killgore Trout
Canadian Health sytstem Long long waits, some lack of advanced medical care. The positive was that no one has gone bankrupt getting health services. That in itself is remarkable when compared to the cost of US cost care.
/A couple of cavities here can do away with the retirement.
| 378 |
gearhead Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:26:37pm |
re: #370 brookly red
wait a second... dosn't that swiss contraption make black holes?
How do you think they make that cheese? Duh!
/
| 379 |
LGoPs Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:26:43pm |
re: #271 austin_blue
Evening, Lizards!
LGoPs;
I have heard this mythos again and again, and I must respectfully disagree. Benjamin Franklin, Tom Jefferson, James Monroe, John Adams, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, &c., &c. & ad infinitum. These were not ordinary men. They were extraordinarily intelligent men, with vision, drive, and a desire to make their world a better place. Greatness was thrust upon them not because they got lucky but because they worked their asses off for the greater good as they perceived it.
I don't disagree with your examples of the Founders but I would also point out that Washington had the humility to refuse being named ruler for life. He started the precedent, IIRC, of stepping down after two terms. What I said about the dangers of politically ambitious politicians being a danger still stands. Washington, and the other Founders were the antithesis of those.
| 380 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:27:05pm |
re: #369 Spare O'Lake
That makes as much sense as saying that there would be no users if there were no supply.
Wake up and stop blaming yourselves for everything that's wrong with the world.
Viet Nam defoliation - America's fault
Heroin/Cocaine - America's fault
OK, let's just join the Apology Tour and slit our own wrists while we're at it.
I don't...Agent Orange is not the answer to Americas consumption of heroin...my addiction was my own fault, and the solution was inside myself
| 381 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:27:10pm |
re: #365 LudwigVanQuixote
This is a side show.
Holdren does not set policy. The real governmental scientific positions are the directors of the DOE and the NIH
As I said before, you will not get a better scientist than Steven Chu. Raynard S. Kington is no lightweight either.
Holdren said a bunch of admittedly obnoxious stuff in the seventies that he has since distanced himself from. He has also had a very respectable career as a research scientist and is a former president of the AAAS.
However,
He does not set policy. The real governmental scientific positions are the directors of the DOE and the NIH
There is way too much hype over this.
If people want to get their panties in a bunch over science. There are real issues we could be shouting about, like how about the fact that we have, even after decades of the medical community shouting about it, and several well publicized scares, no real infrastructure to combat a major outbreak. Perhaps we could argue how AGW is not going to be fixed by cap and trade. But to do that, this side of the aisle needs to get to the point of even accepting that AGW is real. While we are at it, what about the fact that we are shrugging off research into both fundamental particles and fusion? Controlled fusion really would be a panacea for the worlds energy problems and it has none of the waste problems associated with fission. That si deeply important research and we have cut it to the bone - even to the extent of trying to back out of treaties.
What we see with the politicization of Holdren is nothing more than shouting "I hate Obama!" Ok great it is a way for right wingers to seethe together, but it does not actually address any real science policy issues. I don't like Obama either. But all of this political masturbation is not science and it is not science policy either.
If Holdren does not set policy, does he serve as an advisor to those who do set policy?
And if he doesn't advise or establish policy, then why was he hired and why are we paying him?
| 382 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:27:13pm |
I was up early this morning, about 4AM and turned on The Discovery Channel.
Have you heard about these new pills that make your pecker bigger ?
I didn't have a pen.
/
| 383 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:27:14pm |
re: #365 LudwigVanQuixote
Holdren said a bunch of admittedly obnoxious stuff in the seventies that he has since distanced himself from.
Proof?
| 384 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:27:39pm |
re: #356 Erik The Red
The Discovery Channel has a documentary about the Titanic. Much better imho.
I know how it ends!
;-P
Evening Honcos!
| 385 |
lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:27:53pm |
re: #313 buzzsawmonkey
That's not real specific, if I may say so. What is it about "modernism" that requires, in your words, "a very fine division of labor?" That sounds awfully feudal to me.
Sounds like pretty standard "liberalism 101" to me.
| 386 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:28:00pm |
re: #372 MandyManners
Gonna' check it out.
I am enjoying the underwater video. The commentary not so much. Big on guess work low on real facts.
| 387 |
IslandLibertarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:28:00pm |
re: #312 ssn697
I never will understand why God and Evolution can't go together. Makes perfect sense to me.
Here's where evolution derails my "God created man" belief:
At what point of the evolution of man was he given an immortal soul?
Where on the evolutionary road did man become "above" the other animals?
I don't think a Creationist could deal with those questions, so evolution has to be wrong. No compromise.
as for me, I'm just a fluke of the universe...
| 388 |
hazzyday Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:28:17pm |
re: #365 LudwigVanQuixote
repeated link. but one of the problems with science cartoon
| 389 |
LGoPs Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:28:28pm |
re: #337 MandyManners
Oh, good grief. The Hysterical Channel has a show on about what would happen if a black hole were to come to Earth.
They have a special on about Al Sharpton?
| 390 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:28:45pm |
re: #382 SasquatchOnSteroids
I was up early this morning, about 4AM and turned on The Discovery Channel.
Have you heard about these new pills that make your pecker bigger ?
I didn't have a pen./
I'm waiting for the incredible vagina shrinking pills...my body is a temple
| 391 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:29:01pm |
| 392 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:29:09pm |
re: #382 SasquatchOnSteroids
I had a pen but didn't need the information. I didn't want to further scare my wife.
| 393 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:29:14pm |
re: #355 Killgore Trout
I suppose it's about time to figure out what's going to happen...
What health reform means for youI haven't paid much attention to the details because everybody's so full of shit but I guess this might be a good primer.
Very nice and worthless article. No where in the article does it explain how much it's going to increase the cost of tons of items, across the board. The article mentions that some "rich" folk may have to pay a surtax, but, it never goes into anything about how the over all cost is going to be covered.
Guess what folks, you and I are going to cover it, your kids and grandkids are going to pay for it, over and over, on top of the bill for the stimulus, which will be coming due, every year for tens of years.
This is a good propaganda piece for Obama.
| 394 |
VegasRick Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:29:26pm |
re: #375 calcajun
If you're a Communist. Yeah, more peons from steerage died than the snotty rich effetes, but they were so much collateral damage. /
It's da jooosss that sunk the Titanic! No. It was an iceberg. Iceberg, Goldberg, it's all the same shit!
/
| 395 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:29:28pm |
re: #384 jcm
I know how it ends!
;-P
Evening Honcos!
Don't ruin the ending for me. I have been away for 26 years and am behind on current news.
| 396 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:29:47pm |
re: #337 MandyManners
Oh, good grief. The Hysterical Channel has a show on about what would happen if a black hole were to come to Earth.
We have invited the History Channel to do a special report on our friend 'Big Foot'..AKA Harold.. The schedule is pretty tight with the UFO's, Monsters, End of the world Conspiracies, The devil and God Conspiracies...The usually History Channel Shit...I called back and told them Aliens are in the Attic.. I'm on hold...Hurray History Channel! /
| 397 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:29:56pm |
re: #382 SasquatchOnSteroids
I was up early this morning, about 4AM and turned on The Discovery Channel.
Have you heard about these new pills that make your pecker bigger ?
I didn't have a pen./
Try the salve, rub it on for a few minutes, and it gets bigger.
| 398 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:30:27pm |
re: #390 albusteve
I'm waiting for the incredible vagina shrinking pills...my body is a temple
*Whack* in 5,4,3...
| 400 |
jamgarr Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:30:50pm |
re: #327 austin_blue
Heh. That's funny. By the time the Flintstones rolled around, the dinos (including Dino) were domesticated, and they had really cool cars...
Gawd, I remember when it was on prime time...
When I was about 7 I got a Bedrock "set". Plastic roll-out ground/roads/etc., cars dinos, people. It was cool! I have a picture of me standing next to it with my newest assault weapon replica!
| 401 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:31:01pm |
re: #377 hazzyday
How close is the US propoasal to the Canadian system? As I recall the Canadians have no private insurance at all, they've ruled private insurance illegal.
| 402 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:31:06pm |
re: #396 HoosierHoops
Hooray Lisa Kelly!
| 403 |
brookly red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:31:09pm |
re: #382 SasquatchOnSteroids
I was up early this morning, about 4AM and turned on The Discovery Channel.
Have you heard about these new pills that make your pecker bigger ?
I didn't have a pen./
it's hard enough to find a place to park as it is...
| 404 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:31:59pm |
re: #390 albusteve
I'm waiting for the incredible vagina shrinking pills...my body is a temple
*Whack* in 5,4,3...
| 405 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:32:00pm |
re: #393 Walter L. Newton
Very nice and worthless article. No where in the article does it explain how much it's going to increase the cost of tons of items, across the board. The article mentions that some "rich" folk may have to pay a surtax, but, it never goes into anything about how the over all cost is going to be covered.
Guess what folks, you and I are going to cover it, your kids and grandkids are going to pay for it, over and over, on top of the bill for the stimulus, which will be coming due, every year for tens of years.
This is a good propaganda piece for Obama.
What do you expect? It's CNN.
| 406 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:32:37pm |
re: #396 HoosierHoops
We have invited the History Channel to do a special report on our friend 'Big Foot'..AKA Harold.. The schedule is pretty tight with the UFO's, Monsters, End of the world Conspiracies, The devil and God Conspiracies...The usually History Channel Shit...I called back and told them Aliens are in the Attic.. I'm on hold...Hurray History Channel! /
You forgot the Masons!
| 407 |
J.S. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:32:38pm |
re: #355 Killgore Trout
Some Canadian woman who had a brain tumor and had to go the States for treatment (otherwise she would have had to wait), and who appeared in some commercial, well, now she is taking a lot of flak up here ("what's she doin' dissin' Canada to them yanks, eh?" etc.)
| 408 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:32:47pm |
re: #370 brookly red
wait a second... dosn't that swiss contraption make black holes?
Heh. I remember when we were going to build the Superconducting Supercollider up in Waxahachie. They got most of the tunneling finished (it was what?, a 26-mile subsurface loop?) and then shut down funding. Stupid. We should be leading the charge, not Europe.
| 409 |
hazzyday Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:33:11pm |
re: #365 LudwigVanQuixote
Holdren would need to say he wants people to have babies. I was a rabid Jimmy Carter voter at one time and wrote about it in a diary. Now I call him the most bitter man alive that only a dolt would vote for. Repudiated my statements and my ideas of the time I think. I retch at the person that wrote that diary. I can barely read it. I sounded exactly like an Obamabot. lol
| 410 |
VegasRick Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:33:17pm |
re: #392 BatGuano
I had a pen but didn't need the information. I didn't want to further scare my wife.
/
You forgot that.
| 411 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:33:51pm |
re: #392 BatGuano
I had a pen but didn't need the information. I didn't want to further scare my wife.
Mine would probably say something to the effect that I follow her around enough already.
| 412 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:34:17pm |
re: #381 reine.de.tout
If Holdren does not set policy, does he serve as an advisor to those who do set policy?
And if he doesn't advise or establish policy, then why was he hired and why are we paying him?
Look there are advisors and there are advisors. He does have the ear of the president to some extent. However, his job is more like someone who gives him executive briefs. The Surgeon General does things too and also has the ear of the President to some extent... However, do you really think that the S.G. outweighs the director of the NIH? The Secretary of Energy is a different prospect all together also. It's an actual cabinet level position.
The main point herre is that science must follow the grant money. The people who hand out that money are the DOE and the NIH. To a muck lesser extent NASA also, but then again Holdren isn't director of NASA either.
| 413 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:34:24pm |
| 414 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:34:44pm |
re: #396 HoosierHoops
We have invited the History Channel to do a special report on our friend 'Big Foot'..AKA Harold.. The schedule is pretty tight with the UFO's, Monsters, End of the world Conspiracies, The devil and God Conspiracies...The usually History Channel Shit...I called back and told them Aliens are in the Attic.. I'm on hold...Hurray History Channel! /
Bigfoot is not an alien...don't be dissin on the Foot
| 415 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:35:04pm |
re: #387 IslandLibertarian
I never will understand why God and Evolution can't go together. Makes perfect sense to me.
Here's where evolution derails my "God created man" belief:
At what point of the evolution of man was he given an immortal soul?
Where on the evolutionary road did man become "above" the other animals?
I don't think a Creationist could deal with those questions, so evolution has to be wrong. No compromise.as for me, I'm just a fluke of the universe...
The difference is faith and science are two different subjects. Faith discusses the why, science discusses the what.
Two different questions looking at the same thing, two different answers.
Science can tell you what you are.
Faith can tell you why you are.
At what point of the evolution of man was he given an immortal soul?
Mixes the questions, asking and expecting a why answer, or vice versa.
Which is exactly the reason faith (intelligent design, creationism) doesn't belong in science class. Faith is the wrong answer to "what it is?"
| 416 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:35:24pm |
| 417 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:36:05pm |
re: #393 Walter L. Newton
I noticed that CNN used the "49 million with no insurance" number in their graph of how "Americans" get their health coverage (or don't). Many reports I've heard in the last couple months stated that that number includes about 12 million illegals. I'll have to see a copy of the bill to know if illegals are explicitly included/excluded. Anyone happen to know?
| 418 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:36:37pm |
Corrections to my 412, hit the wrong button:
re: #381 reine.de.tout
If Holdren does not set policy, does he serve as an advisor to those who do set policy?
And if he doesn't advise or establish policy, then why was he hired and why are we paying him?
Look there are advisors and there are advisors. He does have the ear of the president to some extent. However, his job is more like someone who gives him executive briefs. The Surgeon General does things too and also has the ear of the President to some extent... However, do you really think that the S.G. outweighs the director of the NIH? The Secretary of Energy is a different prospect all together also. It's an actual cabinet level position.
The main point here is that science must follow the grant money. The people who hand out that money are the DOE and the NIH. To a much lesser extent NASA also, but then again Holdren isn't director of NASA either. The DOD also funds research, but that is another issue entirely.
| 419 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:37:03pm |
re: #416 Erik The Red
I am happily married already, but...
two years in America and your marriage will be in shambles...TV sex drives people mad
| 421 |
VegasRick Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:37:35pm |
| 422 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:37:51pm |
| 423 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:38:12pm |
re: #417 Lincolntf
I noticed that CNN used the "49 million with no insurance" number in their graph of how "Americans" get their health coverage (or don't). Many reports I've heard in the last couple months stated that that number includes about 12 million illegals. I'll have to see a copy of the bill to know if illegals are explicitly included/excluded. Anyone happen to know?
25m uninsured make 200k a year...or whatever...no link...the 49m is a fraud
| 424 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:38:44pm |
re: #365 LudwigVanQuixote
This is a side show.
Holdren does not set policy. The real governmental scientific positions are the directors of the DOE and the NIH
As I said before, you will not get a better scientist than Steven Chu. Raynard S. Kington is no lightweight either.
Holdren said a bunch of admittedly obnoxious stuff in the seventies that he has since distanced himself from. He has also had a very respectable career as a research scientist and is a former president of the AAAS.
However,
He does not set policy. The real governmental scientific positions are the directors of the DOE and the NIH
There is way too much hype over this.
If people want to get their panties in a bunch over science. There are real issues we could be shouting about, like how about the fact that we have, even after decades of the medical community shouting about it, and several well publicized scares, no real infrastructure to combat a major outbreak. Perhaps we could argue how AGW is not going to be fixed by cap and trade. But to do that, this side of the aisle needs to get to the point of even accepting that AGW is real. While we are at it, what about the fact that we are shrugging off research into both fundamental particles and fusion? Controlled fusion really would be a panacea for the worlds energy problems and it has none of the waste problems associated with fission. That si deeply important research and we have cut it to the bone - even to the extent of trying to back out of treaties.
What we see with the politicization of Holdren is nothing more than shouting "I hate Obama!" Ok great it is a way for right wingers to seethe together, but it does not actually address any real science policy issues. I don't like Obama either. But all of this political masturbation is not science and it is not science policy either.
Heh. I remember when we were going to build the Superconducting Supercollider up in Waxahachie. They got most of the tunneling finished (it was what?, a 26-mile subsurface loop?) and then shut down funding. Stupid. We should be leading the charge, not Europe.
| 427 |
brookly red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:39:31pm |
re: #408 austin_blue
Heh. I remember when we were going to build the Superconducting Supercollider up in Waxahachie. They got most of the tunneling finished (it was what?, a 26-mile subsurface loop?) and then shut down funding. Stupid. We should be leading the charge, not Europe.
26 miles? crap, they should call it a transit system & O would fund it.
| 428 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:39:50pm |
| 429 |
hazzyday Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:39:59pm |
re: #401 Killgore Trout
How close is the US propoasal to the Canadian system? As I recall the Canadians have no private insurance at all, they've ruled private insurance illegal.
Not so close. The Canadian's pay it via taxes. So probably more blanket coverage then private insurance options.
| 430 |
J.S. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:40:20pm |
re: #401 Killgore Trout
The Canadian system of Health Care is not under the Feds (in terms of administration, etc.) (There are 5? points -- universal, free, I forget the others). anywho, each province determines how the system is to be paid for...thus, you get differences with each province (provinces are equivalent to states, you know, those 57 states/eh, joking)...thus, in Alberta there was a system whereby each family (if not covered by their employer) would have to pay every three months (I forget the cost, couple hundred dollars? depends on how many dependents/children, etc.)...that's if your employer didn't have Health Care (payroll deductions set up)...(Then, Alberta experienced a "boom" -- remember when oil was going for 120 bucks a barrel? So, now Albertans need no longer do the payments...it's all free now...)
| 431 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:40:28pm |
re: #424 austin_blue
Heh. I remember when we were going to build the Superconducting Supercollider up in Waxahachie. They got most of the tunneling finished (it was what?, a 26-mile subsurface loop?) and then shut down funding. Stupid. We should be leading the charge, not Europe.
And just how did that replay get attached to two posts? Odd...
| 432 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:40:29pm |
re: #417 Lincolntf
I noticed that CNN used the "49 million with no insurance" number in their graph of how "Americans" get their health coverage (or don't). Many reports I've heard in the last couple months stated that that number includes about 12 million illegals. I'll have to see a copy of the bill to know if illegals are explicitly included/excluded. Anyone happen to know?
I've been looking for it, but can't find it. CBO breaks the 49 million like this:
43% voluntary uninsured, mostly the young and healthy who rather not pay.
25% have access to government services, but have used it.
10-12% Illegals.
Another chunk but can't remember the number are only temporarily uninsured during the year but get counted.
| 433 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:40:34pm |
re: #406 MandyManners
You forgot the Masons!
I have a producer on hold on line 2...History Channel is all over this story..
Big Foot in the basement.. I've been throwing 4 goats down there a week..
They are all over it...Of course when i mentioned the fresh beef delivered from Mars...They shit all over themselves...It was all predicted a million years ago...I got proof..
Hold on...I gotta take this call...
Hello? History Channel? We got to talk...
| 434 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:42:27pm |
re: #432 jcm
I've been looking for it, but can't find it. CBO breaks the 49 million like this:
43% voluntary uninsured, mostly the young and healthy who rather not pay.
25% have access to government services, but have used it.
10-12% Illegals.
Another chunk but can't remember the number are only temporarily uninsured during the year but get counted.
36 Million illegals? that's 12% of the 300 million+ population. I don't think so...
| 435 |
brookly red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:42:28pm |
re: #420 buzzsawmonkey
If fifty million Frenchmen can't be wrong, maybe the "49 million with no insurance" are actually the ones with the right idea.
sí, nosotros don' ¡necesidad de t de pagar ninguÌn seguro que apesta!
| 436 |
J.S. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:42:38pm |
re: #429 hazzyday
Private insurance is available for those items not covered under the Health Care Act (that would be things such as ambulance, dental, eye care, etc. -- that you have to look for private insurers, at least that's the case here in alberta.)
| 437 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:43:30pm |
re: #434 austin_blue
36 Million illegals? that's 12% of the 300 million+ population. I don't think so...
10-12% of 49 million.
| 438 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:43:56pm |
re: #434 austin_blue
36 Million illegals? that's 12% of the 300 million+ population. I don't think so...
10-12% of the 49 million uninsured, you know they get counted don't you?
| 439 |
VegasRick Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:43:58pm |
re: #432 jcm
I've been looking for it, but can't find it. CBO breaks the 49 million like this:
43% voluntary uninsured, mostly the young and healthy who rather not pay.
25% have access to government services, but have used it.
10-12% Illegals.
Another chunk but can't remember the number are only temporarily uninsured during the year but get counted.
Fucking unbelieveable. They don't even try to hide it anymore.
| 441 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:44:20pm |
re: #399 buzzsawmonkey
I was speaking more of the notion that we need Men on Horseback running the government, than I was of Holdren or any of Obama's other pet loons.
But since you raise the subject, if Holdren sets policy, I don't want him; if he doesn't, what the hell do we need him for? We seem to have a large and increasing shadow government of "czars" and the like who are not Cabinet members--which must at least be confirmed publicly, even if by a supine and servile Congress--but busy little functionaries running a thousand and one agencies that do...what?
Time to convert about a quarter of the current government office space into low-income housing, a big-box store, or something else nominally useful, and let us soldier on bravely on our own.
That's right more and more Czars... they are basically political yes men for the president to fall back on... This is a trend that started long before Obama. I do not really think we need a science Czar - or any Czar. My family rather hated the last Czar, which is why we fled from his pogroms in Russia.
The bottom line is that this is nearly pure political hot air, and by getting all upset about it, we are feeding it.
There are real science issues to look at. Shouting about Holdren's past commentaries is not one of them. As a governmental issue, the thing to shout about is that the President in general has now created a bunch of advisors that are not subject to the same oversights that cabinet members are.
Of course the President who did this the most was not Obama. If I am going to get political, I will point out that all sorts of Lizards thought it was just ducky when Bush kept expanding his power at the expense of checks and balances. They went and ranted about moonbats who opposed this. Well guess what... Bush ain't there anymore, but the expanded powers still remain.
| 442 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:44:29pm |
re: #434 austin_blue
36 Million illegals? that's 12% of the 300 million+ population. I don't think so...
12% of 49%...16m illegals...easily
| 443 |
lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:45:34pm |
re: #434 austin_blue
36 Million illegals? that's 12% of the 300 million+ population. I don't think so...
I think that was 10-12% of the "uninsured," not of the total population.
| 444 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:46:20pm |
re: #440 Iron Fist
I didn't have to. The media did such things repeatedly. I'lll put it to you. Why shouldn't all elected officials, Republican and Democrat, have to drug test with the results made available to the public. We are their employers.
for your convenience...
Image: brownbrickwall_tileable.jpg
| 445 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:47:42pm |
re: #441 LudwigVanQuixote
Where's your proof that Holdren has recanted what he believed in the 1970s?
| 447 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:48:31pm |
re: #424 austin_blue
Heh. I remember when we were going to build the Superconducting Supercollider up in Waxahachie. They got most of the tunneling finished (it was what?, a 26-mile subsurface loop?) and then shut down funding. Stupid. We should be leading the charge, not Europe.
Don't even get me started on that debacle... If you want to see me fume about stupid presidents and congress critters that would be a great way to start me. The short form is that by moving the project to Texas, rather than expanding Fermi lab as planned, we went from a 2 billion dollar projet to a five billion dollar one that ended up spending 4 billion digging a hole and another two billion filling it in while utterly destroying our dominance in particle physics.
| 448 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:48:34pm |
re: #436 J.S.
Private insurance is available for those items not covered under the Health Care Act (that would be things such as ambulance, dental, eye care, etc. -- that you have to look for private insurers, at least that's the case here in alberta.)
Most European countries have a two-tiered system. If you can afford a private insurance contract that allows you to do procedures that would normally require a certain waiting period, you can get it. My brother-in-law and sister live in England. He needs his gall bladder yanked. It is scheduled for September, and it will be free. In the meantime, he has been given instructions on how to modify his diet to limit adverse affects until then. People grumble about the NHS, but, like Canada, they really don't want the free for all that is the American system, where the insurance companies skim 20% off the top. Neither does small business, which would be paying that 20% vig.
| 449 |
hazzyday Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:48:38pm |
re: #436 J.S.
Private insurance is available for those items not covered under the Health Care Act (that would be things such as ambulance, dental, eye care, etc. -- that you have to look for private insurers, at least that's the case here in alberta.)
Private insurance here is not affordable. Something close to 40 percent of my income if I were to leave my job and get another one without insurance.
Also if I have a pre existing condition I become a medical prisoner of my employer. Insurance companies won't insure on the pre existing claim.
I developed a liver cirrhosis long ago. And any time I mention that on any insurance application it is immediately red flagged for denial. I could just say the word 'liver' and they would deny it.
I would choose to go uninsured if any of my circumstances change. I would just take my chances.
| 450 |
brookly red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:48:40pm |
re: #440 Iron Fist
I didn't have to. The media did such things repeatedly. I'lll put it to you. Why shouldn't all elected officials, Republican and Democrat, have to drug test with the results made available to the public. We are their employers.
wtf? if they write freaking books detailing their drug use & we elect em anyway?
| 451 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:49:39pm |
re: #440 Iron Fist
I'm generally opposed to the Government getting in everyone's business, but drug testing for elected officials would be fine with me. I was regularly piss tested when I was a Private, I don't see why anyone in the chain of command should get a free pass.
Don't know what we'd do if the Pres. turned up "hot", but it'll never happen so I guess it doesn't really matter.
| 453 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:50:28pm |
re: #438 jcm
10-12% of the 49 million uninsured, you know they get counted don't you?
Sorry. You are right. But wouldn't that mean that all illegals over 6 million would have coverage? (wondering how that happens...)
| 455 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:51:05pm |
I suggest an immediate drug test on BO and a state of the art lie detector hooked up for his next press conference...what's the big deal?
| 456 |
brookly red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:51:15pm |
| 457 |
lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:52:24pm |
re: #448 austin_blue
My brother-in-law and sister live in England. He needs his gall bladder yanked. It is scheduled for September, and it will be free. In the meantime, he has been given instructions on how to modify his diet to limit adverse affects until then.
My wife had to have her gall bladder removed about 3 years ago. They did the surgery the next day.
I think I'll stick with our system.
| 458 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:52:38pm |
re: #445 MandyManners
Where's your proof that Holdren has recanted what he believed in the 1970s?
Hold on. Hold on... I'll try to dig up some references. I said distanced, not recanted. Proof of distancing is that he is certainly not advocating forced abortions at the moment. BTW, I rather hate the language of recant anyway. This is not the inquisition.
| 459 |
hazzyday Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:52:50pm |
re: #439 VegasRick
Fucking unbelieveable. They don't even try to hide it anymore.
I think California should just bill Mexico for illegal alien care. I think that's over 10 billion dollars saved.
| 460 |
ShanghaiEd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:53:03pm |
re: #104 LudwigVanQuixote
I see these things and think about how fortunate we are for the outer gas giants. With their massive potential wells, they act as very effective sweepers for things that might otherwise have been attracted to us.
Hey, I'll thank you not to talk about my brother-in-law like that!
| 461 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:53:24pm |
re: #445 MandyManners
Where's your proof that Holdren has recanted what he believed in the 1970s?
Also Mandy, the point is that even if he were shouting such things to the roof tops, HE DOES NOT SET SCIENCE POLICY!
| 463 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:54:53pm |
re: #453 austin_blue
Sorry. You are right. But wouldn't that mean that all illegals over 6 million would have coverage? (wondering how that happens...)
Don't know, the point is when the (D)s say there are 50 million uninsured, they are lying and know they are lying. Both Census Bureau and CBO have said so.
| 464 |
LGoPs Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:54:57pm |
re: #461 LudwigVanQuixote
Also Mandy, the point is that even if he were shouting such things to the roof tops, HE DOES NOT SET SCIENCE POLICY!
But it does speak volumes about Obama's judgement and the types of people he feels comfortable surrounding himself with and being advised by.
And I say his judgement sucks.
| 466 |
brookly red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:56:04pm |
re: #457 lobo91
My wife had to have her gall bladder removed about 3 years ago. They did the surgery the next day.
I think I'll stick with our system.
[Link: cbs11tv.com...]
yeah, this is what happens when the government get involved...
| 467 |
J.S. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:56:32pm |
re: #448 austin_blue
Yep. I think (I've read about this in the past...) the "free/public" system in the UK came about "late" -- in other words, the doctors/hospitals already had in place a "private/not for free" system in place. so then you get tacked on top of the private system, a public system...(that would be like the proposals now going on in the States.) the nice thing about the Canadian system is that there was never (for very long anyway) a real, flourishing private care system -- it was early-on in which all the provinces agreed to the basic 5 principles of a Health Care system...so every doctor signed on (no private doctors outside the system)...So, now, you go to a clinic -- and the doctor examines you, then the doctor bills the Health Care -- you have lists of items, standard billing applies -- you know, if it's under "cough/cold" then the doctor bills the standard office visit fee (20 bucks? or so?); if it's a more complicated exam -- a consulting exam with other doctors, then the billing is more expensive..."consultation fee", etc. Then, each clinic is usually operated as a "business" (many doctors incorporate themselves, for litigation reasons, etc.), and each month the bills are tallied and sent out to Health Care for payment from the government...(to ensure no bogus billings to the government, it used to be that the people would get in the mail a list of all their doctor office visits, etc., so one could check -- but, that's no longer done)...
| 468 |
LGoPs Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:56:45pm |
re: #465 buzzsawmonkey
That video made me think of Philip Roth's novel American Pastorale, about a family destroyed by the daughter turning into a Weather Underground type.
Oh, we were idiots in the Sixties.
The fuckwads were rebelling against being spoiled pampered little fucks. What they needed was a good ass whipping.
| 469 |
IslandLibertarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:57:00pm |
re: #382 SasquatchOnSteroids
I was up early this morning, about 4AM and turned on The Discovery Channel.
Have you heard about these new pills that make your pecker bigger ?
I didn't have a pen./
the new "SCHLONG-WOW"?
| 470 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:57:02pm |
re: #458 LudwigVanQuixote
Hold on. Hold on... I'll try to dig up some references. I said distanced, not recanted. Proof of distancing is that he is certainly not advocating forced abortions at the moment. BTW, I rather hate the language of recant anyway. This is not the inquisition.
U.S. Blood and Treasure for the UN
The redistribution of blood and treasure were high priorities for Holdren, et. al. They advised the "de-development of overdeveloped countries...should be given top priority" (p. 926), and such nations -- e.g., the United States and the developed West -- should "divert their excess productivity into helping the poorer people of the world rather than exploiting them" (p. 931).
How much wealth redistribution would be sufficient? The authors favorably cited a proposal that "the rich nations devote 20 percent of their GNPs for ten or fifteen years to the task of population control and development of the poor countries." They comment, "We believe an effort of this magnitude is not only justified but essential." (p. 925). Reaffirming the goal in his 1995 Nobel speech, he stretched this to a program "sustained over several decades." (Emphasis added.)
He detailed the mechanism for global socialism just two years ago. In a February 2007 report of which he was a coordinating lead author, urges the United Nations to undertake "a global framework" that is "more comprehensive and ambitious" than the Kyoto Protocol. Holdren states the UN must mandate "A requirement for the early establishment of a substantial price on carbon emissions in all countries, whether by a carbon tax or a tradable permit approach." Although he prefers a global carbon tax presided over by a United Nations-strength IRS, he is open to a stringent global cap-and-trade program. However, that program must contain: "A means for transferring some of the revenue produced by carbon taxes upon, or permits purchased by, countries and consumers with high incomes and high per capita emissions to countries and consumers with low incomes and low per capita emissions" (pp. 70-72). (Emphases in original.)
| 471 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:57:06pm |
re: #465 buzzsawmonkey
That video made me think of Philip Roth's novel American Pastorale, about a family destroyed by the daughter turning into a Weather Underground type.
Oh, we were idiots in the Sixties.
I can see your brain from here...
/teasing you..How are you tonight?
| 472 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:57:10pm |
the indifferent electorate, via the MSM, has handed our elected officials this elitist status...hence the towering hypocricy and successful leftist agenda...we will struggle to break the chain...it will take several generations at the rate we are going...the fruition of AmIdol politics...I am not confident after watching the demise of the GOP in one decade
| 474 |
David Simon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:58:04pm |
re: #355 Killgore Trout
I suppose it's about time to figure out what's going to happen...
What health reform means for you
I haven't paid much attention to the details because everybody's so full of shit but I guess this might be a good primer.
Not really. There are a few details missing. Here's what would happen under the House version:
That little penalty they refer to for individuals who refuse to buy health insurance is 2.5% of your adjusted gross income that exceeds your tax filing threshhold. For someone with an AGI of $110,000, that's north of a $2,500 penalty.
And that little employer "subsidy" they so innocuously mention is a mandate that most employers pay 72.5% (65% if it's family coverage) of the cost of every employee's health insurance or face a stiff increase in their payroll tax.
The Senate HELP committee version is a little better, but not much.
| 475 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:58:10pm |
re: #448 austin_blue
Most European countries have a two-tiered system. If you can afford a private insurance contract that allows you to do procedures that would normally require a certain waiting period, you can get it. My brother-in-law and sister live in England. He needs his gall bladder yanked. It is scheduled for September, and it will be free. In the meantime, he has been given instructions on how to modify his diet to limit adverse affects until then. People grumble about the NHS, but, like Canada, they really don't want the free for all that is the American system, where the insurance companies skim 20% off the top. Neither does small business, which would be paying that 20% vig.
The reason insurance companies have to take such a cut is that they have to spend billiobs paying out lawsuits filed by ambulance-chasing lawyers. But unlike other costs, Obama won't even touch tort reform because the trial lawyers have the DNC in their top pocket.
| 477 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:58:36pm |
re: #412 LudwigVanQuixote
Look there are advisors and there are advisors. He does have the ear of the president to some extent. However, his job is more like someone who gives him executive briefs. The Surgeon General does things too and also has the ear of the President to some extent... However, do you really think that the S.G. outweighs the director of the NIH? The Secretary of Energy is a different prospect all together also. It's an actual cabinet level position.
The main point herre is that science must follow the grant money. The people who hand out that money are the DOE and the NIH. To a muck lesser extent NASA also, but then again Holdren isn't director of NASA either.
I was I had your confidence. I'm really not sure who pulls rank on who anymore. There are advisors on foreign policy (Holbrooke, Mitchell, et al) who some would argue have more influence than Hillary. There is at least one economic advisor (Summers) who some would argue has more influence that Geithner.
None of this, of course, proves that Holdren is really Technocrat-in-Chief but I also don't think it's a slam-dunk that he's a bit actor behind department heads.
Time will tell though.
| 478 |
LGoPs Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:58:37pm |
re: #382 SasquatchOnSteroids
I was up early this morning, about 4AM and turned on The Discovery Channel.
Have you heard about these new pills that make your pecker bigger ?
I didn't have a pen./
Hey, Sas. What's goin' on with MJ?
*ducks for cover*
:)
| 479 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:58:50pm |
re: #470 MandyManners
Holdren blasted his country last January before the AAAS as "the stingiest among all" wealthy nations in its development of the Third World, making us "the meanest of wealthy countries." He summed up his view of the U.S. budget by favorably quoting Robert Kates: "Too much for warfare, too little for welfare."
| 480 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:59:02pm |
re: #465 buzzsawmonkey
That video made me think of Philip Roth's novel American Pastorale, about a family destroyed by the daughter turning into a Weather Underground type.
Oh, we were idiots in the Sixties.
I have not read a Philip Roth novel since Portnoy's Complaint. What a Jew-hating asshole. (I do not say self-hating, he is deeply in love with Philip Roth)
| 481 |
ArmyWife Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:59:31pm |
Hola Honcos! My 6th grader just told me she was going to play basketball with Myles, the 7th grader because older men are "hot". Ay yi yi.
| 482 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:00:12pm |
re: #473 buzzsawmonkey
I hate the Bee Gees...DOWNDING! x 1000...or whatever it is
| 483 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:00:26pm |
re: #478 LGoPs
Hey, Sas. What's goin' on with MJ?
*ducks for cover*
:)
Nice.
He was on a government health plan.
He's not coming back.
| 484 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:00:33pm |
re: #464 LGoPs
But it does speak volumes about Obama's judgement and the types of people he feels comfortable surrounding himself with and being advised by.
And I say his judgement sucks.
Well in the course of looking for Mandy's request, I did find Holdren's CV.
You might be very surprised by it. As I said before, he has had a very respectable career.
[Link: www.whrc.org...]
| 485 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:01:01pm |
| 486 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:01:04pm |
re: #481 ArmyWife
Hola Honcos! My 6th grader just told me she was going to play basketball with Myles, the 7th grader because older men are "hot". Ay yi yi.
Break out the shotgun and bowie knife.
| 487 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:01:21pm |
re: #479 MandyManners
The function of such welfare is twofold: to enrich citizens of the Global South and to impoverish Americans for their own good. In a 2006 paper, Holdren noted that reducing "GDP per person" -- that is, cutting your personal wealth -- also reduces Greenhouse Gas emissions. True, it is "not a lever that most people would want to use to reduce emissions"; "People are not getting rich as fast as they think, however, if GDP growth is being achieved at the expense of the environmental underpinnings of well-being" (pp. 15-16).
Holdren addressed the economic costs of his massive restructuring of the economy some 32 years ago, acknowledging it "will entail considerable retraining and temporary unemployment in the workforce" (p. 853). Yet he continues to support economy-crushing energy taxation. In a 1997 press conference, he surmised that if alternative energy sources were to get a foothold, either they "would have to get a great deal cheaper, which seems unlikely, or natural gas would have to get considerably more expensive. The latter is actually a good idea." One is hardly encouraged to learn that last December, environmentalist Dr. James Hansen sent a four-page letter via Holdren to "Michelle and Barack." (Hansen wrote it as surgeons in Vienna placed a stent in his wife's chest following an unexpected heart attack.) His personal note to "John" states, "When gasoline hits $4-5/gallons again, most of that should be tax." Five months earlier, Holdren rated Hansen "one of the most distinguished climate scientists in the world."
| 488 |
brookly red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:01:21pm |
re: #481 ArmyWife
Hola Honcos! My 6th grader just told me she was going to play basketball with Myles, the 7th grader because older men are "hot". Ay yi yi.
/the nut don't fall... ;)
| 489 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:01:58pm |
"--Holdren, 64, is a former president of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Washington who has pushed for more urgent action on global warming. As Obama's top science adviser, he would manage about 40 Ph.D-level experts who help shape and communicate science and technology policy."
From a press release regarding Holdren's appointment.
| 490 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:01:59pm |
re: #481 ArmyWife
Hola Honcos! My 6th grader just told me she was going to play basketball with Myles, the 7th grader because older men are "hot". Ay yi yi.
LOL
I don't even know how to take that...I made all the kids play ball...Lucky for me they loved it...
| 491 |
LGoPs Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:02:04pm |
| 492 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:02:10pm |
re: #465 buzzsawmonkey
That video made me think of Philip Roth's novel American Pastorale, about a family destroyed by the daughter turning into a Weather Underground type.
Oh, we were idiots in the Sixties.
Whadda mean "were"? We stopped? When? I had not noticed.
| 493 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:02:23pm |
| 494 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:02:24pm |
re: #470 MandyManners
May I suggest Mr. Holdren's official LGF nickname?
Commie Eugenics Shitbird John P Holdren or CESJPH.
| 497 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:02:59pm |
re: #487 MandyManners
On the contrary, the transcript shows Holdren actually reaffirmed that he still believes one billion people may die within the next 11 years from a climate-related drought:
Vitter: So you would stick to that statement?
Holdren: I don't think it's likely. I think we should invest effort - considerable effort - to reduce the likelihood further.
Vitter: So you would stick to the statement that it could happen?
Holdren: It could happen, and ...
Vitter: One billion by 2020?
Holdren: It could.
Vitter managed to show Holdren was wrong on yet another front: just two years ago, he wrote that current emissions levels could cause the a 13-foot rise in sea levels. Under cross-examination, Holdren admitted science's most dire estimates are now half as much as Holdren pronounced just two years ago. Yet this "expert" will have the ear of the president in setting scientific policy.
| 498 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:03:23pm |
| 499 |
hazzyday Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:03:28pm |
re: #470 MandyManners
didn't Bono oversee a massive wealth transfer to Africa with little disernable effect? The trouble is that a lot of the money is twittered away to corruption. They need to conquer the country first for the transfer to be effective.
| 500 |
ArmyWife Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:03:32pm |
re: #488 brookly red
I robbed the cradle. Mr. Armywife is 1 year younger than me.
| 501 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:04:03pm |
| 502 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:04:22pm |
| 503 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:04:22pm |
DDT: A Truly Malthusian Policy
The lack of correction has led to a correlative lack of introspection. This author could find no retraction of his 1977 statement, "In our opinion, no biologist has made a greater contribution to humanity in this century than Rachel Carson" (p. 854). Carson's primary contribution, through banning the DDT on erroneous grounds, has been the preventable death of 50-90 million souls in Sub-Saharan Africa and the Indian subcontinent.
In a way, Holdren's support for Carson is a microcosm of his entire philosophy: a deadly and ill-conceived policy based on false evidence of potential harm, whose catastrophic impact has been the opposite of that intended -- never retracted, never regretted, never reconsidered. Such a reflexively self-reverential tone is unhelpful in any public servant. John Holdren's globalist, redistributionist, Malthusian views could prove more damaging for the world than those of his hero.
| 504 |
hazzyday Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:04:36pm |
re: #481 ArmyWife
Hola Honcos! My 6th grader just told me she was going to play basketball with Myles, the 7th grader because older men are "hot". Ay yi yi.
Chip off the old block?
| 506 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:04:41pm |
re: #494 Dark_Falcon
May I suggest Mr. Holdren's official LGF nickname?
Commie Eugenics Shitbird John P Holdren or CESJPH.
How about Mengele Beta, Mengele 2.0, or M2.0?
| 507 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:05:36pm |
re: #481 ArmyWife
Hola Honcos! My 6th grader just told me she was going to play basketball with Myles, the 7th grader because older men are "hot". Ay yi yi.
And some of us just have a pulse.
| 508 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:05:44pm |
re: #500 ArmyWife
Heh. We're about to enter the "bad half of the year" here at my house. My wife is six months older than I am so for half the year she's officially "older" than me. She no likey the bad half of the year.
| 509 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:06:05pm |
re: #497 MandyManners
On the contrary, the transcript shows Holdren actually reaffirmed that he still believes one billion people may die within the next 11 years from a climate-related drought:
Vitter: So you would stick to that statement?
Holdren: I don't think it's likely. I think we should invest effort - considerable effort - to reduce the likelihood further.Vitter: So you would stick to the statement that it could happen?
Holdren: It could happen, and ...Vitter: One billion by 2020?
Holdren: It could.Vitter managed to show Holdren was wrong on yet another front: just two years ago, he wrote that current emissions levels could cause the a 13-foot rise in sea levels. Under cross-examination, Holdren admitted science's most dire estimates are now half as much as Holdren pronounced just two years ago. Yet this "expert" will have the ear of the president in setting scientific policy.
In another section of that same testimony, I believe Holdren (to paraphrase) basically says that our policies aimed at preventing the loss of one billion lives by 2020 scenario.
| 510 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:06:11pm |
re: #470 MandyManners
OK that is not forced abortions.
I did not say that I liked his politics. I said that he does not set science policy and as far as his scientific credentials go, he is not a lightweight. I further said that he is not the one in charge of the science budgets.
We are not on opposite sides here Mandy. I am saying that this is a diversion from real science issues.
As far as real science issues are concerned, it is not clear to me, however much I may hate his politics that he would get the math wrong. One of the great things about science is that it in of itself does not have a political affiliation. Either the data backs you up or it doesn't.
No one has ever accused him of cooking any numbers. That does not mean that he was not wrong about the population issue, and since he himself has not done any work on the issue in thirty years, I think that count's as distancing himself.
| 511 |
brookly red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:06:42pm |
re: #500 ArmyWife
I robbed the cradle. Mr. Armywife is 1 year younger than me.
yeah you mentioned that before, hence the /... i was juat funnin ya.
| 512 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:07:13pm |
re: #503 MandyManners
DDT: A Truly Malthusian Policy
The lack of correction has led to a correlative lack of introspection. This author could find no retraction of his 1977 statement, "In our opinion, no biologist has made a greater contribution to humanity in this century than Rachel Carson" (p. 854). Carson's primary contribution, through banning the DDT on erroneous grounds, has been the preventable death of 50-90 million souls in Sub-Saharan Africa and the Indian subcontinent.
In a way, Holdren's support for Carson is a microcosm of his entire philosophy: a deadly and ill-conceived policy based on false evidence of potential harm, whose catastrophic impact has been the opposite of that intended -- never retracted, never regretted, never reconsidered. Such a reflexively self-reverential tone is unhelpful in any public servant. John Holdren's globalist, redistributionist, Malthusian views could prove more damaging for the world than those of his hero.
Malaria: A natural approach to thinning the herd.
| 514 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:08:04pm |
re: #503 MandyManners
DDT: A Truly Malthusian Policy
The lack of correction has led to a correlative lack of introspection. This author could find no retraction of his 1977 statement, "In our opinion, no biologist has made a greater contribution to humanity in this century than Rachel Carson" (p. 854). Carson's primary contribution, through banning the DDT on erroneous grounds, has been the preventable death of 50-90 million souls in Sub-Saharan Africa and the Indian subcontinent.
In a way, Holdren's support for Carson is a microcosm of his entire philosophy: a deadly and ill-conceived policy based on false evidence of potential harm, whose catastrophic impact has been the opposite of that intended -- never retracted, never regretted, never reconsidered. Such a reflexively self-reverential tone is unhelpful in any public servant. John Holdren's globalist, redistributionist, Malthusian views could prove more damaging for the world than those of his hero.
WTF. Malaria kills more people in Africa than any other disease. Thanks a fucking lot Carson.
| 516 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:08:07pm |
re: #470 MandyManners
U.S. Blood and Treasure for the UN
The redistribution of blood and treasure were high priorities for Holdren, et. al. They advised the "de-development of overdeveloped countries...should be given top priority" (p. 926), and such nations -- e.g., the United States and the developed West -- should "divert their excess productivity into helping the poorer people of the world rather than exploiting them" (p. 931).
How much wealth redistribution would be sufficient? The authors favorably cited a proposal that "the rich nations devote 20 percent of their GNPs for ten or fifteen years to the task of population control and development of the poor countries." They comment, "We believe an effort of this magnitude is not only justified but essential." (p. 925). Reaffirming the goal in his 1995 Nobel speech, he stretched this to a program "sustained over several decades." (Emphasis added.)
He detailed the mechanism for global socialism just two years ago. In a February 2007 report of which he was a coordinating lead author, urges the United Nations to undertake "a global framework" that is "more comprehensive and ambitious" than the Kyoto Protocol. Holdren states the UN must mandate "A requirement for the early establishment of a substantial price on carbon emissions in all countries, whether by a carbon tax or a tradable permit approach." Although he prefers a global carbon tax presided over by a United Nations-strength IRS, he is open to a stringent global cap-and-trade program. However, that program must contain: "A means for transferring some of the revenue produced by carbon taxes upon, or permits purchased by, countries and consumers with high incomes and high per capita emissions to countries and consumers with low incomes and low per capita emissions" (pp. 70-72). (Emphases in original.)
Mandy-
If you believe that climate change is as potentially disruptive to the world economy as the vast majority of scientists say it is, that is a perfectly reasonable way to attack the problem. The idea is to get third world economies to bypass the really nasty carbon dioxide producing phase that the West went through to get our industrial economies to the point they are now. It's called leap-frogging and it makes perfect sense. There are 2.5 billion Indians and Chinese who want to expand their economies. We can kill them, or we can accommodate them. And we are not going to kill them.
| 517 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:08:18pm |
Tumour patients hit by NHS shortages
- Jo Revill, February 6, 2005 [Guardian UK]
NHS financial crises set to outlast winter
- Mike Waites, February 4, 2005 [Yorkshire Post]
NHS 24 'priority' callers wait four hours for advice
- Caroline Wilson, January 14, 2005 [Evening Times (UK)]
'No strategy' on NHS waiting time
- January 14, 2005 [BBC]
Output figures show NHS decline
- John Carvel, October 19, 2004 [Guardian UK]
Heart patients die on waiting lists
- Peter Sharples, October 18, 2004 [Manchester Online]
£25bn overspend feared for NHS computer network
- Karen Attwood, October 12, 2004 [telegraph.co.uk]
Gaps in care cost £7bn, says charity
- John Carvel, October 4, 2004 [Guardian UK]
NHS excluding poor people, UK
- September 15, 2004 [Medical News Today]
Smokers 'should not get NHS care'
- September 6, 2004 [BBC News]
Waiting list row blights Brighton
- John Carvel, September 4, 2004 [Guardian UK]
Patients are denied the last rites under data protection law
- Elizabeth Day, July 25, 2004 [telegraph.co.uk]
Shortage of dentists to double by 2011
- John Carvel, July 24, 2004 [Guardian UK]
Britain's stiff upper lip gives way to a snarl
- Sarah Lyall, July 18, 2004 [The New York Times]
Hospital Overcrowding A Cause of Superbug Infections
- John von Radowitz, July 1, 2004 [Scotsman.com]
Hospital Crisis: Fallen Angels
- Lindsay Mcgarvie, May 23, 2004 [Glasgow Sunday Mail]
Study finds British hospitals are still austere, cold, smelly and poorly maintained
- May 6, 2004 [News-Medical.net]
Hospital bathrooms and showers: a continuing saga of inadequacy
- Andy Monro, MRCP & Graham P Mulley, DM, FRCP, May 2004 [Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine]
Majority back public smoking ban
- March 24, 2004 [BBC]
Discrimination Rampant In British Health Care
- Peter Moore, November 17, 2003 [365gay.com]
PERIPATETICS—To the Medical Socialists of All Parties
- Sheldon Richman, September 2003 [FEE.org]
Creeping Privatization?
Shortages of skilled workers, low morale, long queues for services, crumbling facilities and corrupt practises. - Roland Watson, August 6, 2001 [LewRockwell.com]
The World's Worst HMO
- Stephen D. Moore, November 24, 1999 [Random Thoughts]
Socialized Medicine in Great Britain: Lessons for the Oregon Health Plan
- Professor John Spiers, March 18, 1999 [Cascade Policy Institute]
The Sickbed Which is Socialized British Medicine
- December 23, 1997 [NCPA]
The British Way of Withholding Care
- Harry Schwarz, March 1989 [FEE.org]
Surgery postponed indefinitely for 1,000 Kelowna patients
- Cathryn Atkinson, April 8, 2008 [Globe and Mail]
Majority of Que. dentists quit health-care system
- March 27, 2008 [CTV.ca]
Why Ontario keeps sending patients south
- Lisa Priest, February 22, 2008 [Globe and Mail]
Will Socialized Health Care in the US Kill Canadians?
- Don Surber, March 3, 2008 [Acton Institute]
Wait times for surgery, medical treatments at all-time high: report
- October 15, 2007 [CBC News (Canada)]
The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care
- David Gratzer, Summer 2007 [City Journal]
Cancer patients question why PET scan not covered
- May 28, 2007 [CBC News]
BC Medical Association: Waiting Too Long for Hip and Knee Surgery Costs $10,000 Per Patient-Maximum Wait Times Should Be No Longer Than 6 Months
- June 28, 2006 [CCN Matthews]
Ont. physician turns away patient for being 55+
- March 17, 2006 [CTV.ca]
Canada inches toward private medicine
- Rebecca Cook Dube, August 8, 2005 [CS Monitor]
Doctor defends private cancer clinic
- Gillian Livingston, July 15, 2005 [Canadian Press]
And many, many more.
| 518 |
hazzyday Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:08:42pm |
re: #512 Pianobuff
And if he is serious about balancing over and under developed countries he could declare twinkies a mandatory food group in the US.
| 519 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:09:05pm |
re: #515 buzzsawmonkey
'Nite, all. This time I mean it.
and don't come back til you quote Archie Comics!
| 520 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:09:08pm |
re: #497 MandyManners
On the contrary, the transcript shows Holdren actually reaffirmed that he still believes one billion people may die within the next 11 years from a climate-related drought:
Vitter: So you would stick to that statement?
Holdren: I don't think it's likely. I think we should invest effort - considerable effort - to reduce the likelihood further.Vitter: So you would stick to the statement that it could happen?
Holdren: It could happen, and ...Vitter: One billion by 2020?
Holdren: It could.Vitter managed to show Holdren was wrong on yet another front: just two years ago, he wrote that current emissions levels could cause the a 13-foot rise in sea levels. Under cross-examination, Holdren admitted science's most dire estimates are now half as much as Holdren pronounced just two years ago. Yet this "expert" will have the ear of the president in setting scientific policy.
Mandy, the 11-12 years is wrong. I agree that he is alarmist. However he is not totally wrong. More than one billion are certain to die from AGW if nothing changes. It will just be more like 50-120 years from now.
| 521 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:09:08pm |
re: #510 LudwigVanQuixote
OK that is not forced abortions.
I did not say that I liked his politics. I said that he does not set science policy and as far as his scientific credentials go, he is not a lightweight. I further said that he is not the one in charge of the science budgets.
We are not on opposite sides here Mandy. I am saying that this is a diversion from real science issues.
As far as real science issues are concerned, it is not clear to me, however much I may hate his politics that he would get the math wrong. One of the great things about science is that it in of itself does not have a political affiliation. Either the data backs you up or it doesn't.
No one has ever accused him of cooking any numbers. That does not mean that he was not wrong about the population issue, and since he himself has not done any work on the issue in thirty years, I think that count's as distancing himself.
I am not talking about "real science". I am talking about an idealogue who wants to take away my money to piss it away on his extreme visions.
| 523 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:10:09pm |
re: #475 Dark_Falcon
The reason insurance companies have to take such a cut is that they have to spend billiobs paying out lawsuits filed by ambulance-chasing lawyers. But unlike other costs, Obama won't even touch tort reform because the trial lawyers have the DNC in their top pocket.
The medical insurance companies don't pay for that. Physicians do.
| 525 |
LC LaWedgie Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:10:28pm |
re: #465 buzzsawmonkey
They're all Dem speech writers now... or lawyers.
| 527 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:11:08pm |
| 528 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:11:49pm |
re: #492 calcajun
Whadda mean "were"? We stopped? When? I had not noticed.
That reminds me, Netflix just delivered Idiocracy. Gotta go watch it.
| 529 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:12:04pm |
re: #506 calcajun
How about Mengele Beta, Mengele 2.0, or M2.0?
No. Joseph Mengele was a sadist who hurn and killed innocents because he enjoyed it. Holdren has advocated vile and inhuman policies but there is no evidence that he relishes the suffering they would cause. There is also the issue of Godwin's Law, which I could argue you just tripped.
| 530 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:12:10pm |
taco thread coming up...be patient you hotheads
| 531 |
ShanghaiEd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:12:18pm |
re: #104 LudwigVanQuixote
I see these things and think about how fortunate we are for the outer gas giants. With their massive potential wells, they act as very effective sweepers for things that might otherwise have been attracted to us.
Hey, I'll thank you not to talk about my brother-in-law like that!
| 532 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:12:31pm |
re: #520 LudwigVanQuixote
Mandy, the 11-12 years is wrong. I agree that he is alarmist. However he is not totally wrong. More than one billion are certain to die from AGW if nothing changes. It will just be more like 50-120 years from now.
Ludwig... He is recommending that policy be implemented as if the 1 Billion number is a distinct possibility by 2020. It's in his testimony. The approach you would use for an 11 year plan is drastically different than one used for a 50-120 year plan.
Give Obama's use of advisors and czars such as Summers, Holbrook, and Mitchell as alternate policy-setters to Treasury and State, it's not sheer craziness to wonder if Holdren does or will carry a big stick.
| 533 |
Tarkus289 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:12:39pm |
re: #528 Alouette
I think you have been watching it for a while now.
| 534 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:13:05pm |
re: #520 LudwigVanQuixote
Whenever someone says a billion people are going to die if I don't do what they tell me to do, I tend to consider them insane.
| 535 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:13:08pm |
re: #521 MandyManners
I am not talking about "real science". I am talking about an idealogue who wants to take away my money to piss it away on his extreme visions.
And I am telling you he doesn't control that money!
| 537 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:14:02pm |
And, look at FCBBHO's other science czar: Van Jones, a fucking fruit-loop of the highest order.
| 538 |
Tarkus289 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:15:01pm |
re: #537 MandyManners
None of these A-holes belong within 500 miles of D.C.
| 539 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:15:02pm |
re: #535 LudwigVanQuixote
And I am telling you he doesn't control that money!
He has the ear of the man who can.
| 540 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:15:46pm |
re: #538 Tarkus289
None of these A-holes belong within 500 miles of D.C.
Maybe Jones can just send his thoughts the way he thinks he can cure cancer by remote.
| 541 |
lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:16:20pm |
re: #538 Tarkus289
None of these A-holes belong within 500 miles of D.C.
If you're including Obama in that statement, I agree.
| 543 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:16:27pm |
re: #523 austin_blue
The medical insurance companies don't pay for that. Physicians do.
That's not quite right. Physicians pay malpractice insurance premiums to the companies and the companies have to cover a large part of any judgment. This can stick a company with multi-million dollar liabilities. Given tort reform's success in your state, I would hope that you would endorse it as a part of any health care reform.
| 544 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:16:31pm |
| 545 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:18:18pm |
I was offered my first time to do a guest blog last night..I'm really excited! I have a thousand ideas spinning in my head...
Now there is the hard work of doing a story...But I'm pretty excited...
| 546 |
Tarkus289 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:18:18pm |
The pic of pelosi on Drudge is priceless, I was getting tired of seeing her smiling so much these last couple of days.
| 548 |
Ojoe Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:18:41pm |
Show me the scientific study that makes a good case that the earth has left behind its recent, geologically speaking, glacial-interglacial swings. Because if it hasn't, we are probably only temporarily staving off the next ice age with all our evil carbon.
Of course cased by SUVs.
Political morons!
| 549 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:18:46pm |
re: #545 HoosierHoops
I was offered my first time to do a guest blog last night..I'm really excited! I have a thousand ideas spinning in my head...
Now there is the hard work of doing a story...But I'm pretty excited...
Where and when 2H?
| 550 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:19:54pm |
re: #532 Pianobuff
Ludwig... He is recommending that policy be implemented as if the 1 Billion number is a distinct possibility by 2020. It's in his testimony. The approach you would use for an 11 year plan is drastically different than one used for a 50-120 year plan.
Give Obama's use of advisors and czars such as Summers, Holbrook, and Mitchell as alternate policy-setters to Treasury and State, it's not sheer craziness to wonder if Holdren does or will carry a big stick.
So are you saying that a billion dead in 100 years is more acceptable than a billion dead in 11? Granted that the plan would be different, but still, a billion people. That's more than have been killed in the history of human conflict.
| 551 |
Ojoe Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:20:48pm |
re: #536 Iron Fist
The last person I designed a building for said, "it is everything I wanted, you did a great job."
And now I'm basically unemployed.
Yes, electing him was a big ass mistake.
| 552 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:20:52pm |
re: #529 Dark_Falcon
Oops.
No-- I did not mean to call him a Nazi. I just used most infamous proponent of Eugenics I could think of (and Maggie Sanger just does not seem right).
As for Mengele, I'd argue that any man that blithely postulates that forced abortions and sterilizations is in the same league--if not the same ballpark as the good Doctor. He may no longer be playing in that league--given his "recanting" but the fact that he once suggested it also suggests a propensity to an unsettling callousness.
Anyway--it was perhaps a poor example and for that I apologize.
| 553 |
ShanghaiEd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:20:55pm |
re: #545 HoosierHoops
I was offered my first time to do a guest blog last night..I'm really excited! I have a thousand ideas spinning in my head...
Now there is the hard work of doing a story...But I'm pretty excited...
Go, Hoosier Hoops! Please make sure to link it here when it's done and up...
| 554 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:21:27pm |
re: #546 Tarkus289
The pic of pelosi on Drudge is priceless, I was getting tired of seeing her smiling so much these last couple of days.
She can't help it-- her face is fixed that way after some bad botox.
| 555 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:22:03pm |
re: #532 Pianobuff
Ludwig... He is recommending that policy be implemented as if the 1 Billion number is a distinct possibility by 2020. It's in his testimony. The approach you would use for an 11 year plan is drastically different than one used for a 50-120 year plan.
Give Obama's use of advisors and czars such as Summers, Holbrook, and Mitchell as alternate policy-setters to Treasury and State, it's not sheer craziness to wonder if Holdren does or will carry a big stick.
Quite Concur. Obama is the kind of Chicago figure who lets his henchmen do the dirty work.
| 556 |
brookly red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:22:30pm |
OK, so i just checked the karmameter & I need just 2 points to hit 3k...
so before I say good night lemmie throw some at the barn door...
Obamacare sucks- booze is good-take out Iran's nukes- I miss bush, screw Al Franken-Al Sharpton-Al Gore & Al Jezeria & lets have a boob thread.
now one of those has got to be worth 2 points... (don't force me to make a pun).
| 557 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:22:32pm |
re: #543 Dark_Falcon
That's not quite right. Physicians pay malpractice insurance premiums to the companies and the companies have to cover a large part of any judgment. This can stick a company with multi-million dollar liabilities. Given tort reform's success in your state, I would hope that you would endorse it as a part of any health care reform.
I do endorse it. I am just saying that medical insurers are not necessarily malpractice insurers. Different cats.
| 558 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:23:11pm |
re: #556 brookly red
OK, so i just checked the karmameter & I need just 2 points to hit 3k...
so before I say good night lemmie throw some at the barn door...
Obamacare sucks- booze is good-take out Iran's nukes- I miss bush, screw Al Franken-Al Sharpton-Al Gore & Al Jezeria & lets have a boob thread.
now one of those has got to be worth 2 points... (don't force me to make a pun).
Done!
| 559 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:23:38pm |
re: #550 austin_blue
So are you saying that a billion dead in 100 years is more acceptable than a billion dead in 11? Granted that the plan would be different, but still, a billion people. That's more than have been killed in the history of human conflict.
Not by any means. I haven't even said I agree with that assessment.
My point was that even if I did accept the poster's estimate of 50-120 as being accurate, a completely different plan would be in order than one for an 11 year plan. Obama's techno-czar or whatever (Holdren) wants policies to reflect the 11 year possibility.
Is that clearer?
| 560 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:23:43pm |
Listening to Democratic easy listening. WWTF.
They're playing Lionel Ritchies
Once,
Twice,
THREEE times a voter.
Disco Inferno's up next.
| 561 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:23:47pm |
re: #552 calcajun
Oops.
No-- I did not mean to call him a Nazi. I just used most infamous proponent of Eugenics I could think of (and Maggie Sanger just does not seem right).
As for Mengele, I'd argue that any man that blithely postulates that forced abortions and sterilizations is in the same league--if not the same ballpark as the good Doctor. He may no longer be playing in that league--given his "recanting" but the fact that he once suggested it also suggests a propensity to an unsettling callousness.Anyway--it was perhaps a poor example and for that I apologize.
Good points made and spot on. I was never offended, I just felt that the comparison was off. It's all good.
| 562 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:23:49pm |
re: #546 Tarkus289
The pic of pelosi on Drudge is priceless, I was getting tired of seeing her smiling so much these last couple of days.
Scroll down a bit for the pic of Hillary in a prison orange pantsuit. Now we know what she would have looked like if Whitewater and her commodities trading had been fully investigated.
| 563 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:24:02pm |
re: #556 brookly red
OK, so i just checked the karmameter & I need just 2 points to hit 3k...
so before I say good night lemmie throw some at the barn door...
Obamacare sucks- booze is good-take out Iran's nukes- I miss bush, screw Al Franken-Al Sharpton-Al Gore & Al Jezeria & lets have a boob thread.
now one of those has got to be worth 2 points... (don't force me to make a pun).
Now--you OWE us./
| 564 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:24:15pm |
re: #546 Tarkus289
From the accompanying article...
"The president also has vowed that the legislation will not swell the deficit, although a senior administration official told reporters Tuesday that the pledge does not apply to an estimated $245 billion to increase fees for doctors serving Medicare patients over the next decade.'
They just don't make "vows" like they used to.
| 565 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:24:18pm |
re: #556 brookly red
OK, so i just checked the karmameter & I need just 2 points to hit 3k...
so before I say good night lemmie throw some at the barn door...
Obamacare sucks- booze is good-take out Iran's nukes- I miss bush, screw Al Franken-Al Sharpton-Al Gore & Al Jezeria & lets have a boob thread.
now one of those has got to be worth 2 points... (don't force me to make a pun).
Done and you owe me a scotch. Mine was the 3000th. Top shelf please ice and a splash of water. Thank you and cheers. :)
| 566 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:24:56pm |
re: #532 Pianobuff
Ludwig... He is recommending that policy be implemented as if the 1 Billion number is a distinct possibility by 2020. It's in his testimony. The approach you would use for an 11 year plan is drastically different than one used for a 50-120 year plan.
Give Obama's use of advisors and czars such as Summers, Holbrook, and Mitchell as alternate policy-setters to Treasury and State, it's not sheer craziness to wonder if Holdren does or will carry a big stick.
I agree that he is overly alarmist. However, he does not set policy.
What more do you want me to say? I agree that I do not think that his position should even be there in the first place. However, as to the predictions of climate models there is a lot of bad news. It is very bad news.
We are still dealing with people who think that somehow the facts of AGW bogus and in reality a conspiracy of commie scientists to rob them of their livelihoods.
I actually really wish to G-d that congress believed that it would all come crashing down by 2020. That way, the bullshit half measures they would take might actually be sufficient.
Now before everyone jumps on me about that, understand clearly, that we hit a tipping point well before the crash down. Just because the crash down is a bit further out makes little difference if you pass the tipping point.
As far as the best science I have been able to look into goes, most estimates of the tipping point happen around 2020 to 2025. There are other ones that put it a bit further out and there are some who believe we may have passed it already.
Seriously though, if we do pass it, we are screwed. Billions really will die because they will loose their homes and there will not be enough food.
Another thing to be worried about is the limitations of the models.
Here is something that few people get. We do not understand how ice breaks up well. Research into how ice breaks was derided by politicians as yet another waste that silly scientists care about.
It turns out that the models got the ice break up in the poles wrong.
OUR ESTIMATES WERE MUCH TOO GENTLE.
THE ICE BREAKS UP AND THEN MELTS A LOT FASTER THEN WE FIRST THOUGHT.
That means we are closer and not further away from a tipping point. You might have noticed I have been writing a lot more about AGW lately. It is because I just recently read about how the models need to be reworked to take EVEN FASTER rates of polar loss than expected. The situation is more than less urgent.
| 568 |
yochanan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:26:49pm |
re: #554 calcajun
she looks more like she is a bit full of it are her eyes brown?
| 569 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:26:54pm |
re: #564 Lincolntf
From the accompanying article...
"The president also has vowed that the legislation will not swell the deficit, although a senior administration official told reporters Tuesday that the pledge does not apply to an estimated $245 billion to increase fees for doctors serving Medicare patients over the next decade.'They just don't make "vows" like they used to.
To Obama, promises are to be discarded the second they become an impediment to want he wants to do. The man has no honor, and I despise him for that fact. An honorable man would either keep his promise or publicly state why he could not.
| 570 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:27:04pm |
| 571 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:27:19pm |
| 572 |
brookly red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:27:54pm |
thanks y'all, next time I bring a fifth...
| 573 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:28:35pm |
re: #559 Pianobuff
Not by any means. I haven't even said I agree with that assessment.
My point was that even if I did accept the poster's estimate of 50-120 as being accurate, a completely different plan would be in order than one for an 11 year plan. Obama's techno-czar or whatever (Holdren) wants policies to reflect the 11 year possibility.
Is that clearer?
Sure. I agree. But the fight over water resources may very well be the driver of conflict in this century.
| 574 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:29:53pm |
| 575 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:30:01pm |
re: #566 LudwigVanQuixote
I agree that he is overly alarmist. However, he does not set policy.
What more do you want me to say? I agree that I do not think that his position should even be there in the first place. However, as to the predictions of climate models there is a lot of bad news. It is very bad news.
We are still dealing with people who think that somehow the facts of AGW bogus and in reality a conspiracy of commie scientists to rob them of their livelihoods.
I actually really wish to G-d that congress believed that it would all come crashing down by 2020. That way, the bullshit half measures they would take might actually be sufficient.
Now before everyone jumps on me about that, understand clearly, that we hit a tipping point well before the crash down. Just because the crash down is a bit further out makes little difference if you pass the tipping point.
As far as the best science I have been able to look into goes, most estimates of the tipping point happen around 2020 to 2025. There are other ones that put it a bit further out and there are some who believe we may have passed it already.
Seriously though, if we do pass it, we are screwed. Billions really will die because they will loose their homes and there will not be enough food.
Another thing to be worried about is the limitations of the models.
Here is something that few people get. We do not understand how ice breaks up well. Research into how ice breaks was derided by politicians as yet another waste that silly scientists care about.
It turns out that the models got the ice break up in the poles wrong.
OUR ESTIMATES WERE MUCH TOO GENTLE.
THE ICE BREAKS UP AND THEN MELTS A LOT FASTER THEN WE FIRST THOUGHT.
That means we are closer and not further away from a tipping point. You might have noticed I have been writing a lot more about AGW lately. It is because I just recently read about how the models need to be reworked to take EVEN FASTER rates of polar loss than expected. The situation is more than less urgent.
Out of curiosity, who or what do you view as the "authorative" source on the predictive side, since I have seen lots of varied estimates and predictions?
On the other topic, I'm not sure our minds will meet, at least now anyway. I gave some examples of Obama's advisors who seem to be in the forefront of policy setting - and since Obama has already done this with a few, there is no reason for me (at this time) to believe that Holdren is excluded from the club. I'm not saying he is the technocrat-in-chief... I just don't have your faith that it's out of the question.
| 576 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:32:25pm |
re: #566 LudwigVanQuixote
I don't know about "setiing policy", but his responsibilities include "shaping and communicating science and technology policy" (to paraphrase the press release from his appointment).
Sounds like a distinction without a difference.
| 577 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:36:39pm |
re: #440 Iron Fist
I didn't have to. The media did such things repeatedly. I'lll put it to you. Why shouldn't all elected officials, Republican and Democrat, have to drug test with the results made available to the public. We are their employers.
Because the next step would be for them to demand drug tests for all voters prior to voting, on the concept that what is good for the gander (they are mostly men) is good for the goose. Drug testing violates privacy and probable cause.
| 578 |
David Simon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:37:52pm |
Thomas Sowell once again explains the danger when government promises to "control" costs:
Politicians can throw rhetoric around about “bringing down the cost of health care” or they can even throw numbers around. But the politicians’ numbers don’t match the numbers that the Congressional Budget Office finds when it analyzes the hard data.
An old advertising slogan said, “Progress is our most important product.” With politicians, confusion is their most important product. They confuse bringing down the price of medical care with bringing down the cost. And they confuse medical care with health care.
Nothing is easier than for governments to impose price controls. They have been doing this, off an on, for thousands of years — repeatedly resulting in (1) shortages, (2) quality deterioration, and (3) black markets. Why would anyone want any of those things when it comes to medical care?
Refusing to pay the costs is not the same as bringing down the cost. That is why price controls create these problems. When developing a new pharmaceutical drug costs roughly a billion dollars, you are either going to pay the billion dollars or cause people to stop spending a billion dollars to develop new drugs.
[Link: article.nationalreview.com...]
| 579 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:38:06pm |
re: #553 ShanghaiEd
Go, Hoosier Hoops! Please make sure to link it here when it's done and up...
Oh it is going to be a classic..I'm writing a post on running into Lizards that have been banned here...You know.it's 2am and you run into iamtoast that claims they were only banned here for no reason...
Really?
I swear to God..
What were you doing?
Rubbing my dogs belly...
Really?
Swear to God...
You fucking liar..
Then the bombs go off...You get all the inside scoop as we review all the meltdowns the last year at LGF...
The typical I want to Nuke all Arabs...Blow up the world...what ever...The lizards that crossed the line and Can't see it...I'm your worst nightmare for a first post.
We review the landscape of wackjobs and haters and stalkers and bring you the best of the worst from the last year...From Edgar stomping him feet to Goddess blowing off her friends to Wrath of God jumping off the cliff...My first guest post will be straight up...I promise the lizards..There will be lots of laughs...Regards
| 580 |
Ojoe Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:39:08pm |
re: #566 LudwigVanQuixote
If you read the Britannica's article on Earth's climate history you will find that it says that for 95% of the time, there was no ice at the poles.
So we are trying to preserve an anomaly, probably.
| 581 |
lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:40:07pm |
re: #577 austin_blue
Because the next step would be for them to demand drug tests for all voters prior to voting, on the concept that what is good for the gander (they are mostly men) is good for the goose. Drug testing violates privacy and probable cause.
If you don't think there's probable cause to start a Congressional drug testing program, you haven't been paying attention lately.
| 583 |
lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:43:46pm |
Whatever the Rockies are paying Tulowitzki, he should get a raise...
| 584 |
Ojoe Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:43:50pm |
If it gets warmer, do these alarmists factor in all the people who would then not die of cold? These people should be subtracted from the toasted heat croakers.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Details please, how were your numbers arrived at?
| 585 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:44:13pm |
re: #575 Pianobuff
Out of curiosity, who or what do you view as the "authorative" source on the predictive side, since I have seen lots of varied estimates and predictions?
On the other topic, I'm not sure our minds will meet, at least now anyway. I gave some examples of Obama's advisors who seem to be in the forefront of policy setting - and since Obama has already done this with a few, there is no reason for me (at this time) to believe that Holdren is excluded from the club. I'm not saying he is the technocrat-in-chief... I just don't have your faith that it's out of the question.
I consider NOAA, Princeton GFDL and NASA to be authoritative. I consider things published in journals like Science, NAture and Physical Review to be authoritative.
I consider almost anything published by the MSM to likely have a strong dose of garbage. I consider anything published by a right or left wing blog to be essentially assured of being garbage.
To answer several questions up and up about what Holdren does and does not do, I will reiterate, the research that actually gets done in science is determined by who hands out the money. The people whom Obama appointed to those tasks are very, very good.
Congress, and not the President determines how much money those organizations get. I should also add that another major player in giving out grant money is the NSF. Holdren is not in charge of that either.
| 586 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:48:31pm |
re: #580 Ojoe
If you read the Britannica's article on Earth's climate history you will find that it says that for 95% of the time, there was no ice at the poles.
So we are trying to preserve an anomaly, probably.
Well, we are creatures of habit.
| 587 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:49:52pm |
re: #582 Erik The Red
Which blog 2H.
LOl
Give it a week or so..The greatest meltdowns at LGF over this last year...
I think I can do this thing..Should be great...
| 588 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:51:57pm |
re: #587 HoosierHoops
LOl
Give it a week or so..The greatest meltdowns at LGF over this last year...
I think I can do this thing..Should be great...
OK. Drop me an email when you areready to let the cat out :)
| 589 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:55:48pm |
re: #580 Ojoe
If you read the Britannica's article on Earth's climate history you will find that it says that for 95% of the time, there was no ice at the poles.
So we are trying to preserve an anomaly, probably.
It's comments like that which make my head want to explode. The implication is that since it happened before, melted poles would not be such a big deal.
Let's look at what the world looked like when we lost the poles.
[Link: jan.ucc.nau.edu...]
Now notice how much of California is under water. What do you think the East Coast looked like then without the poles? ONe should also note that there were much larger concentrations of CO2 back then and that this directly compliments the arguments of AGW.
So where would America be if our coasts looked like that. The middle of the country had a large inland sea too.
What would the socio-economic impact of loosing LA, SD, NY, Chicago, Philadelphia, DC, Baltimore, Florida and New Orleans be on the US?
What does Wall Street mean if there is no Wall street any more?
| 590 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:57:24pm |
re: #584 Ojoe
If it gets warmer, do these alarmists factor in all the people who would then not die of cold? These people should be subtracted from the toasted heat croakers.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Details please, how were your numbers arrived at?
Please see my 589 and let your inquiring mind look at the map.
| 591 |
jim in virginia Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:18:47pm |
re: #589 LudwigVanQuixote Dude, you claim to be a scientist but you don't understand that the reason the coastline in your link looks the way it does has much less to do with losing (not "loosing") the polar ice caps, than with changes in geologic conditions? You know, plate tectonics?
The Sierra Nevada aren't there. The California coast ranges aren't there. They aren't under water, they DIDN'T EXIST in the Jurassic.
| 592 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:51:27pm |
re: #591 jim in virginia
Dude, you claim to be a scientist but you don't understand that the reason the coastline in your link looks the way it does has much less to do with losing (not "loosing") the polar ice caps, than with changes in geologic conditions? You know, plate tectonics?
The Sierra Nevada aren't there. The California coast ranges aren't there. They aren't under water, they DIDN'T EXIST in the Jurassic.
Oh man, how about this.. Plate tectonics aside, which is a point with some merit, what were sea levels then? That is the real point. Even if the Sierra Nevada were the same then as now, we still would not have LA or SD. If you really need to quibble this way in order to dodge the main point, then why don't you look at the East Coast maps also? You will find that the tectonics issue is not the same, and yet all kinds of stuff we have cities on today was under water. This was true even well after the Cretaceous.
As to questioning if I am a scientist or not, then please take the time to follow your own arguments through logically.
| 593 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:10:14pm |
| 594 |
Ojoe Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:47:09pm |
re: #589 LudwigVanQuixote
Nature will always overwhelm us. We will have to step aside when it happens. I live in the country and it is only a city view that we can control this. If we help each other it will not be such a big deal.
| 595 |
Land Shark Wed, Jul 22, 2009 8:24:39am |
I see everyone is still dodging the main issue here. Where's Jupiter's birth certificate? Has anyone seen it? How do we know Jupiter is qualified to be part of OUR Solar System? Heck, how do we know Jupiter was even born here? Oh sure, everybody wants to give Jupiter props for taking a hit for us, but that's a smokescreen if you ask me. And who's gonna pay for Jupiter's injuries as a result of this impact? Will Obamacare cover those astronomical costs? I demand answers!
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