Top Evangelist Preacher Convicted of Pedophilia

US News • Views: 3,730

Evangelist Tony Alamo, owner of a multi-million dollar “church” that sold elaborate clothing to celebrities such as Michael Jackson, has been convicted of a series of disgusting crimes involving sex with girls as young as 9 years old. Five women testified at his trial that Alamo transported them across state lines to have sex with them when they were young girls. Alamo will probably end up spending the rest of his life in prison — and he’s comparing himself to Jesus.

Alamo, whose actual name is Bernie Hoffman, called the accusations a hoax in a phone interview with CNN and denied any type of wrongdoing. “They’re just trying to make our church look evil … by saying I’m a pornographer. Saying that I rape little children … I love children. I don’t abuse them. Never have. Never will,” said Alamo.

During the interview he was asked why authorities were searching his property and he responded, “Why were they after Jesus? It’s the same reason. Jesus is living within me.”

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255 comments
1 theheat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:05:35am

Another piece of shit trying to use Jesus to get him out of a sticky spot. I doubt many will fall for, or agree, he's anything like Jesus.

2 debutaunt  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:05:44am

Ahhh, as long as he isn't full of himself and other stuff.

3 Sharmuta  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:05:57am

Absolutely disgusting.

4 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:06:15am

There are no words to express ...
... (at least, none which won't get me banned.)

/*crickets*

5 duck of peace  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:06:25am

must be crowded in there. Jesus, child raper, clothing designer. How does he find the time?

6 callahan23  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:07:16am

FILTH. Is what them are. Lowest of it all.

7 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:08:26am
During the interview he was asked why authorities were searching his property and he responded, “Why were they after Jesus? It’s the same reason. Jesus is living within me.”

Sociopath.

8 zombie  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:09:29am
Alamo, whose actual name is Bernie Hoffman

Please don't tell me this guy was born Jewish and then "converted." Can you imagine the shame and embarrassment he has brought on his parents?

(Though the "religion" he "converted" to seems to be worship of his own narcissistic self.)

9 Sharmuta  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:09:36am

Too many people abuse religion, but the worst of the worst is when it's a pervert pretending to be a pious man of God. They will surely burn in Hell.

10 jcm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:09:48am

re: #4 pre-Boomer Marine brat

There are no words to express ...
... (at least, none which won't get me banned.)

/*crickets*

Ditto...

11 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:09:57am

Have fun in prison!

12 zombie  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:11:14am

re: #7 iceweasel

Sociopath.

I don't think so. I doubt he actually believes any of his self-serving balderdash. What he is is a charlatan and a evil child rapist. He knows he's about as unlike Jesus as a human could be.

13 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:11:17am

Never heard of the guy before. Was he famous?

14 callahan23  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:11:20am

I don't, as a rule, use the word pedophilia anymore.
It is pedocriminal henceforth.

15 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:11:25am

re: #8 zombie

Can you imagine the shame and embarrassment he has brought on his parents?

Can you imagine him caring whether he has or not?

16 BignJames  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:11:50am

No low self esteem here.

17 zombie  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:12:38am

re: #9 Sharmuta

Too many people abuse religion, but the worst of the worst is when it's a pervert pretending to be a pious man of God. They will surely burn in Hell.

Since I'm not so sure hell exists, let's put him in a stinky prison for the rest of his accursed life, as an insurance policy that he gets at least some suffering.

18 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:13:10am

He will be a hit in the pokey.

19 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:13:15am

re: #10 jcm

Ditto...

My apartment is OVERRUN with crickets, and I'm pulling pieces of crushed plastic out of my palm.

/where'd I put that spare mouse?!?!

20 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:13:39am

re: #13 Killgore Trout

Never heard of the guy before. Was he famous?

I hadn't either, but wiki has an article on him. He also called Reagan and the Pope Anti-Christs. His ministry is referred to as a cult.

21 zombie  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:13:47am

re: #13 Killgore Trout

Never heard of the guy before. Was he famous?

I've heard the name once or twice, but knew absolutely nothing about him.

I think he was extremely famous among the "I'm a complete idiot and a sucker for con artists" crowd.

22 mikalm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:13:48am

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Aside from his horrific crimes against children, and his long history of financial fraud, this guy was a first-rate religious bigot and paranoiac freak: [Link: www.catholic.com...]

23 jcm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:13:51am
“Why were they after Jesus? It’s the same reason. Jesus is living within me.”

Listen you miserable piece of shit. If that were true, you wouldn't be raping 9 year old girls.

24 BignJames  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:14:08am

re: #17 zombie

Since I'm not so sure hell exists, let's put him in a stinky prison for the rest of his accursed life, as an insurance policy that he gets at least some suffering.

Yeah, but why risk it?

25 Truck Monkey  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:14:46am

REMEMBER THE ALAMO! I am sure these poor girls will.

26 jcm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:15:02am

re: #18 Cannadian Club Akbar

He will be a hit in the pokey.

He's gonna' have a nickname...

Pinata...

27 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:15:06am

re: #20 Pianobuff

I hadn't either, but wiki has an article on him. He also called Reagan and the Pope Anti-Christs. His ministry is referred to as a cult.

It seems he was a New World Order type nut. Probably a Birch Society type guy.

28 Last Mohican  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:15:23am

I just read Tony Alamo's Wikipedia entry. It's quite impressive. Besides the whole child-raping polygamist thing, he's a 9/11 truther who also blames the American government for being a Satanic conspiracy that's responsible for Pearl Harbor and the JFK assassination.

Not to mention that he runs probably the only cult that sells its own brand of hideously ugly denim jackets.

29 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:15:30am

"Jesus is living within me.”

He had better pray that his "cellie" isn't a huge Hispanic guy named "Jesus" or those words may indeed be prophetic.

30 DEZes  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:15:43am

re: #23 jcm

Listen you miserable piece of shit. If that were true, you wouldn't be raping 9 year old girls.

He has another religious figure confused with Christ.
Now what was that perverts name...

31 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:16:01am

re: #25 Truck Monkey

REMEMBER THE ALAMO! I am sure these poor girls will.

He did have a store called "The Alamo of Nashville".

32 callahan23  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:16:17am

re: #30 DEZes

He has another religious figure confused with Christ.
Now what was that perverts name...

*crickets*

33 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:16:27am

BTW - child molesters get no respect in prison. Lowest of the low.

34 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:16:51am

BBL

35 callahan23  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:17:25am

re: #33 karmic_inquisitor

BTW - child molesters get no respect in prison. Lowest of the low.

GOOD!!!

36 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:17:36am

re: #29 karmic_inquisitor

"Jesus is living within me.”

He had better pray that his "cellie" isn't a huge Hispanic guy named "Jesus" or those words may indeed be prophetic.

Are you, perhaps, thinking of the character in one of the Dirty Harry flicks?

/I sure as hell am!

37 kynna  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:18:02am

re: #1 theheat

Another piece of shit trying to use Jesus to get him out of a sticky spot. I doubt many will fall for, or agree, he's anything like Jesus.

He used Jesus to get himself there. Lower than low. That kind of evil is extra special and has a whole wing dedicated to it in the hot place.

38 Sharmuta  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:18:18am

re: #12 zombie

Sociopaths have no conscience, and that's what this guy is displaying by thinking he's Jesus.

And I don't know why me thinking this guy would burn in hell would mean we shouldn't send him to prison.

39 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:18:30am
During the interview he was asked why authorities were searching his property and he responded, “Why were they after Jesus? It’s the same reason. Jesus is living within me.”

Meet the Romans.

40 jcm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:18:37am

re: #22 mikalm

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Aside from his horrific crimes against children, and his long history of financial fraud, this guy was a first-rate religious bigot and paranoiac freak: [Link: www.catholic.com...]

I decided to pay a visit to the Holy Alamo Christian Church Foundation headquarters in Dyer, Arkansas, a place where visitors are not welcome. I wanted to learn more about Tony Alamo and the inner workings of his organization. (By the way, his surname is pronounced not AL-uh-moe, which is the pronunciation of the historical site in Texas, but Uh-LAH-moe.)

Standing in a circle of Dyer residents (and their pit bulldog), I posed as a concerned Christian interested in joining the Church. Once Alamo's people searched my car, jotted down my license number, and asked me several questions,...

WTF?
I've read the Bible and studied it a bit... I must of missed that part.

"Search ye all, and interrogate ye all who seek to enter the House of God..."

41 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:19:18am

Somewhere, Jeffrey Dahmer's mophandle is mounted in a place of honor.

42 dwells38  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:19:26am

The whole evangalism thing is such a racket. They stand in front of their followers and moralize knowingly misleading them as they know they aren't channels for God or anything other than their own ambitions and greed. They all peddle the crap about tithing 10% (to them of course) so God will hear your prayers while all they do is spend the money on fancy clothes, cars and houses and or plow it back into their cash cow business for more of the same.

It's the same thing as with the AGW crowd. If they really believed what they tell others they would be giving all that money away and living very modestly. Just like if AlGore believed his own AGW BS he would be living like the Amish and not like the Rich and Famous.

43 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:19:28am

re: #27 Killgore Trout

It seems he was a New World Order type nut. Probably a Birch Society type guy.

Possibly. When you read all of his positions and enterprises, he's almost a caricature or composite of a whole catalogue of weirdness - like the Russell Crowe character in Virtuosity.

44 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:19:44am

re: #12 zombie

I don't think so. I doubt he actually believes any of his self-serving balderdash. What he is is a charlatan and a evil child rapist. He knows he's about as unlike Jesus as a human could be.

Sociopaths are narcissistic, and as such prone to grandiose fantasies of power and importance. Comparing themselves to Jesus is classic, as is comparing themselves to Einstein, etc.

They also delight in fraud, and many are sadistic. All lack empathy.

So, falsely-pious hypocrite who exploits others, rapes children, and then compares himself to Jesus when he's caught fits 'sociopathy' perfectly. He likely doesn't believe in anything but himself and his right to do what he pleases as he pleases...but that's a sociopath for you.

45 theheat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:20:01am

re: #33 karmic_inquisitor

Which is why child molesters and sexual offenders are often kept from the general population. So, any dreams of his comeuppance happening with an amorous cellmate will most likely go unrealized.

46 callahan23  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:20:16am

BBIAB, dinners ready.

47 zombie  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:20:56am

re: #29 karmic_inquisitor

"Jesus is living within me.”

He had better pray that his "cellie" isn't a huge Hispanic guy named "Jesus" or those words may indeed be prophetic.

re: #33 karmic_inquisitor

BTW - child molesters get no respect in prison. Lowest of the low.

Actually, most child molesters go straight to the "protective custody" block and never get harmed by other prisoners because they don't mix with the general population.

48 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:21:06am

re: #42 dwells38

No, evangellism per se is not a racket.

49 mikalm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:21:32am

re: #42 dwells38

There are evangelists of all denominations who live very sparingly and use their monies for outreach and charity. But they aren't the ones making public spectacles of themselves like Alamo.

50 opnion  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:21:42am

re: #12 zombie

I don't think so. I doubt he actually believes any of his self-serving balderdash. What he is is a charlatan and a evil child rapist. He knows he's about as unlike Jesus as a human could be.

Yeah, Jesus sail "Suffer the chidren" This guy missed that part

51 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:22:09am

Alamo has been in prison before, briefly for a weapons offense in 1961, and from 1994 to 1998 for tax evasion.

Other low-lights of his despicable career:

In 1985 Alamo excoriated Pope John Paul II and president Ronald Reagan. "Did you know that the Pope and Ronald Reagan are a couple of Anti-Christ Devils and that they are selling us all down the drain?"


When (Alamo's second wife) Susan died of cancer on April 8, 1982, Alamo claimed she would be resurrected and kept her body on display for six months while their followers prayed. After 16 years her body was given to her family.

I remember a 60 Minutes piece way back in the 80s that accused Alamo of essentially using slave labor in the manufacture of his famous sequined jackets.

He is now 74 years old, btw, so his sentence will be for life with any luck at all.

52 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:22:43am

re: #44 iceweasel

Sociopaths are narcissistic, and as such prone to grandiose fantasies of power and importance. Comparing themselves to Jesus is classic, as is comparing themselves to Einstein, etc.

They also delight in fraud, and many are sadistic. All lack empathy.

So, falsely-pious hypocrite who exploits others, rapes children, and then compares himself to Jesus when he's caught fits 'sociopathy' perfectly. He likely doesn't believe in anything but himself and his right to do what he pleases as he pleases...but that's a sociopath for you.

Don't say that too loudly.
It might appear.

53 BatGuano  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:23:24am

re: #50 opnion

Or i, in the NIV: "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

54 Racer X  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:24:38am

re: #22 mikalm

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Aside from his horrific crimes against children, and his long history of financial fraud, this guy was a first-rate religious bigot and paranoiac freak: [Link: www.catholic.com...]

Tony Alamo is a scumbag.

(By the way, his surname is pronounced not AL-uh-moe, which is the pronunciation of the historical site in Texas, but Uh-LAH-moe.)

This fucker was well on his way in the footsteps of Jim Jones and David Koresh.

I hope he rots in prison.

55 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:25:08am

re: #40 jcm

I can't find it here ... isn't there a passage where Jesus is asked if there is an unforgiveable sin? IIRC, he replies (something like) leading God's Children astray.

Right, wrong, or confused ... ?

56 mikalm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:25:43am

re: #50 opnion

Yeah, Jesus sail "Suffer the chidren" This guy missed that part

"And whoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea." -- Jesus Christ, Mark 9:42

57 dwells38  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:25:55am

re: #49 mikalm

OK I'll amend that to...It's very sad the ONLY ones I ever hear about are the ones running a racket. When it's done right I suppose it doesn't make the news.

Sorry to smear evangalism by grouping them all with the crooks.

58 jcm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:25:56am

re: #42 dwells38

I evangelical, with a very fundamentalist belief in scripture and the resulting faith.

Faith is an individual journey, other believers help you on the way, but the individual must make the spiritual discoveries and find the path on there own, other wise it is not your faith.

Taking a teaching without proving it against scripture, and against personal spiritual knowledge is folly.

Any preacher who says, I speak for God, any examination of what I speak isn't necessary should be avoided like the plague.

59 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:26:03am

re: #52 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Don't say that too loudly.
It might appear.

From beyond the atmosphere?

60 midwestgak  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:26:11am

"Watch out that no one deceive you. Many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and will deceive many." NIV

61 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:26:44am

re: #59 haakondahl

From beyond the atmosphere?

heh

62 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:26:52am

re: #53 BatGuano

Or i, in the NIV: "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

Very nice, Bat. Appreciated.

63 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:28:20am

Saudis can't brag...
Saudi man arrested after boasting about sex on TV

A Saudi Arabian man was arrested after bragging about his sex life on television, local media reported.

Mazen Abdul Jawad appeared last week on a show on Lebanese channel LBC, where he went into "graphic details about his sexual conquests," according to Arab News, an English daily.

A segment of the show "Red Line" posted on YouTube shows the 32-year-old talking about sex and foreplay. He also discusses losing his virginity to a neighbor while he was 14.
...
About 100 people have filed a complaint against Abdul Jawad, alleging among other things, that he violated a principle of Shariah law by "publicizing his sinful behavior," the daily said.

It is unclear what punishment, if any, Abdul Jawad faces.

64 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:29:01am

This man is evil.. The cult of personality hiding behind God

65 Mithrax  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:29:03am

Wow.

This guy is fucked up.

66 Sharmuta  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:29:23am

Child molesters she get automatic life sentences (if not the death penalty). They are deeply broken upstairs and cannot be "fixed". When released, they will only prey on children again. Wastes of precious natural resources, IMO, and they should be treated as such.

67 MandyManners  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:29:28am

re: #51 Shiplord Kirel

In 1985 Alamo excoriated Pope John Paul II and president Ronald Reagan. "Did you know that the Pope and Ronald Reagan are a couple of Anti-Christ Devils and that they are selling us all down the drain?"

Sounds like the crap David Icke and his ilk spew.

68 razorbacker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:29:37am

My only quibble is with the 'Top Evangelist' title. It is like smearing all Islam with the activities of the Taliban, or other rabid fundamentalist Islamic groups.

The Tony and Susan Alamo act has been one step ahead of various law enforcement activities for decades.

From his involvement in the 70s with a cult-like bunch of followers who literally worshiped Tony and Susan (even to the point of holding long-running prayer vigils over Susan's body in '82 waiting for the resurrection that Tony promised) to the run-ins with Fort Smith area authorities over the Alamo Foundations scam-like activities supposedly to help street kids but in actual fact providing Tony with luxury vehicles and palatial homes the best that can be said for Tony Alamo is that he has skated on the thin edge of the law.

I remember one episode where Tony's followers were working the streets begging like those robe-clad folks used to work the airports, with all change earned going into Tony's 'Ministry'.

The cops have been after Tony for years. It looks like they've finally got him on something that'll hold him. Now he'll be the problem of the prison system, where I expect him to start another 'ministry' to the incarcerated.

69 DEZes  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:29:54am

BBL

70 mfarmer1  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:29:55am

Too bad for him he can't moonwalk.

71 Racer X  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:30:06am

re: #22 mikalm

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Aside from his horrific crimes against children, and his long history of financial fraud, this guy was a first-rate religious bigot and paranoiac freak: [Link: www.catholic.com...]

Dude is truly sick. From your link:

BRODERICK WANTED to leave the compound because Alamo ordered severe spankings of the children. She claims she once saw three Foundation members strike a child with a paddle 60 times for talking about the subject of racism.

"People at our church use their hands or straps or sticks to spank their children," Alamo was quoted as saying. "We don't just use a board." But in Nailed!! Alamo says that without paddling "we will never see an end to the crime" in society. "If President Bush and the citizens of this country would allow me to have charge of our youth, then shall the world see law and order. Violence and rebellion will cease, just as it has in all of the church facilities that I have ever pastored."

72 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:30:07am

In his defense, Alamo is now claiming that he is the victim of "Government-Vatican persecution," and that the FBI brainwashed the witnesses with with voodoo and black magic.
He adds that the legal age of marriage is puberty, apparently seeking to pass his own self-serving laws even as he faces the bar of actual justice.

All this is on his website. I won't link directly to it from here, but it is on the wikipedia biography site.

73 mikalm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:30:09am

re: #63 Killgore Trout

Locker rooms across the Magic Kingdom have suddenly fallen silent...

74 opnion  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:30:15am

re: #53 BatGuano

Or i, in the NIV: "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

Ye, there is a strong Biblical prohibition against harming children.
Any clergy that abuse children are really in a business,not a ministry.

75 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:30:32am

re: #59 haakondahl

From beyond the atmosphere?

Is it the Colour Out of Space?

/cthulhu. :)

76 jcm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:30:36am

re: #55 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I can't find it here ... isn't there a passage where Jesus is asked if there is an unforgiveable sin? IIRC, he replies (something like) leading God's Children astray.

Right, wrong, or confused ... ?

re: #56 mikalm

"And whoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea." -- Jesus Christ, Mark 9:42

Matthew 18:6
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Things mentioned twice have added emphasis in scripture.

77 debutaunt  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:31:10am

re: #74 opnion

Ye, there is a strong Biblical prohibition against harming children.
Any clergy that abuse children are really in a business,not a ministry.

Do you mean they are in a weird-assed cult?

78 theheat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:31:34am

re: #68 razorbacker

Now he'll be the problem of the prison system, where I expect him to start another 'ministry' to the incarcerated.

I'd take that bet, except he's probably going to be kept away from other prisoners.

79 Danny  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:32:26am

This freak used to have a church-slash-country music clothing store down the street where I used to live in Nashville. Don't recall him purporting to be Jesus, but I guess that now makes him a for-profit prophet?

80 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:32:34am

re: #63 Killgore Trout

Saudis can't brag...
Saudi man arrested after boasting about sex on TV

About 100 people have filed a complaint against ...

Sounds like he got someone's goat.

81 Sharmuta  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:32:35am

Boy- look at my typos. I think I need more koughphy. BBIAF

82 ted  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:32:42am

Psychotic.

83 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:33:05am

re: #75 iceweasel

Is it the Colour Out of Space?

/cthulhu. :)

More Messianic than chromatic, I should think.

84 mikalm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:33:50am

re: #75 iceweasel

Is it the Colour Out of Space?

/cthulhu. :)

No, it's the Thing on the Doorstep! :-)

85 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:34:08am

re: #76 jcm

Matthew 18:6
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Things mentioned twice have added emphasis in scripture.

Thanks!

Mikalm posted that right after my question. I wondered then if that was it.

86 theheat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:34:14am

re: #79 Danny

The link to the Catholic article says he talks crazy Jesus talk whenever he's in a jam. He's done it before. It's his MO.

87 Mithrax  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:34:18am

re: #84 mikalm

No, it's the Thing on the Doorstep! :-)

Beats the monster under the bed, that thing is just mean!

88 opnion  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:34:24am

re: #77 debutaunt

Do you mean they are in a weird-assed cult?

Not necessarily a cult. It happens in mainstream Churches, look at the child sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church.
What I am saying is the individals that do it, don't even believe their own sermons.
Many societal misfits with psych disorders hide behind the cloth

89 BignJames  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:34:29am

re: #63 Killgore Trout

It is unclear what punishment, if any, Abdul Jawad faces.

I can prolly guess.

90 Tumulus11  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:35:23am
'Alamo faces a maximum of 100 years in prison for his crimes.'


. One hundred years sounds about right.

91 theheat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:35:32am

re: #89 BignJames

Russell Brand better be thanking his lucky stars right about now.

92 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:36:05am

There have been plenty of "fallen" preachers before this, not to mention a large number or Rabbis this week for other reasons.

The primary reason there are such people in organized religion is, IMHO, due to the tax dodges that they are allowed without any significant scrutiny until it become too obvious to ignore.

If all tax exempt organizations simply had to abide by the same reporting rules, there would be little incentive for the cons to get into the business (I strongly suspect this pedophile could be had for more than sex crimes if it were not for the hands off attitude to any group that labels itself religious).

93 BatGuano  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:36:12am

Would be be cruel and unusual punishment for him to wear prison garb that says, "Short Eyes"?

94 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:36:18am

re: #78 theheat

I'd take that bet, except he's probably going to be kept away from other prisoners.

You'd be surprised. A lot of these freaks, by virtue of being literate and middleclass, wind up tutoring other prisoners to help them pass the GED-- or with other (relatively) cushy jobs within the prison. They're excellent at manipulating others and adapt surprisingly well to a prison environment.

95 debutaunt  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:36:18am

re: #88 opnion

Not necessarily a cult. It happens in mainstream Churches, look at the child sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church.
What I am saying is the individals that do it, don't even believe their own sermons.
Many societal misfits with psych disorders hide behind the cloth

I was confused by the reference to a business.

96 Taqyia2Me  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:37:13am

re: #89 BignJames

It is unclear what punishment, if any, Abdul Jawad faces.

I can prolly guess.

"Baliff, whack his pee-pee."

97 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:37:23am

re: #93 BatGuano

(I suspect that I should be VERY glad I don't get that one)

98 theheat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:38:13am

re: #94 iceweasel

I know, but he'll be isolated for some time, and he's 74 years old. With any luck, he won't have the opportunity to share his special brand of gospel with any impressionable minds.

99 mikalm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:38:16am

re: #97 pre-Boomer Marine brat

(I suspect that I should be VERY glad I don't get that one)

"Short eyes" = prison slang for child molester

100 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:38:27am

Would it surprise anyone that Alamo is a *spit* 9-11 troofer *spit*?

101 BlueCanuck  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:38:38am

re: #50 opnion

Yeah, Jesus sail "Suffer the chidren" This guy missed that part

Actually, I think he misinterpreted that part. A lot of suffering was caused, and now there is a chance for some people to find a little peace.

/unfortunately it takes a long time, and sometimes peace is never found.

102 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:39:05am

re: #92 Naso Tang


The primary reason there are such people in organized religion is, IMHO, due to the tax dodges that they are allowed without any significant scrutiny until it become too obvious to ignore.

If all tax exempt organizations simply had to abide by the same reporting rules, there would be little incentive for the cons to get into the business (I strongly suspect this pedophile could be had for more than sex crimes if it were not for the hands off attitude to any group that labels itself religious).

Some charlatans and sociopaths get into religion as a business because of the tax dodges and opportunity to fleece the faithful, I'm sure, but many other unbalanced types are drawn to it purely because they are attracted to the opportunites for power over others and psychological manipulation.

103 jcm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:39:08am

re: #89 BignJames

It is unclear what punishment, if any, Abdul Jawad faces.

I can prolly guess.

He'll be tortured to reveal the names of his lovers, who'll then be stoned. Jahwad will then receive a pardon.

104 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:39:32am

re: #99 mikalm

"Short eyes" = prison slang for child molester

heh ... I don't know whether to thank you or not!

/:D thanks!

105 BatGuano  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:40:28am

re: #97 pre-Boomer Marine brat

(I suspect that I should be VERY glad I don't get that one)

I wish I didn't , but here was a movie in the eighties that explained it. Imagine: Justice in prison.

106 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:41:12am

re: #67 MandyManners

Sounds like the crap David Icke and his ilk spew.

Icke is not into the anti-christ thing... everything with him has to do with shape-shifting reptilians, since all religion in his view is a hoax perpetrated by the ancient possessors of wisdom (above said aliens included).

There's a different, but no less mentally deprived wing of the loony bin that has the monopoly on the eschatological domain. They don't like the Jesuits, Reagan, etc. Look for an unhealthy fixation on christian endtimes prophecy and these jamokes turn up.

107 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:41:14am

re: #93 BatGuano

Would be be cruel and unusual punishment for him to wear prison garb that says, "Short Eyes"?

I imagine him in an orange jumpsuit with his new nickname- "Bitch"- above the pocket.

108 BignJames  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:41:47am

re: #103 jcm

He'll be tortured to reveal the names of his lovers, who'll then be stoned. Jahwad will then receive a pardon.


Hmmm...didn't guess that.

109 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:41:55am

re: #102 iceweasel

Some charlatans and sociopaths get into religion as a business because of the tax dodges and opportunity to fleece the faithful, I'm sure, but many other unbalanced types are drawn to it purely because they are attracted to the opportunites for power over others and psychological manipulation.

There may be a question regarding the primary motivation, but power and manipulation of groups requires money in most situations. Either way, without free reign to spend as they see fit, these types would be doing their stuff in back alleys.

110 opnion  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:42:06am

re: #95 debutaunt

I was confused by the reference to a business.

I should have been more clear. I ws trying to say that people who act this way can't take their faith seriously.
We had the scandal in our parish & the sactimony on the part of the involved clergy was despicable.

111 Annar  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:42:31am

He should have jumped ship for Islam and claimed he was emulating the prophet who did the 9 year old Aisha.

112 opnion  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:43:18am

re: #111 Annar

He should have jumped ship for Islam and claimed he was emulating the prophet who did the 9 year old Aisha.

Perfect defense.

113 BignJames  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:44:00am

re: #111 Annar

He should have jumped ship for Islam and claimed he was emulating the prophet who did the 9 year old Aisha.


You're smarter than his lawyer.

114 dwells38  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:44:02am

re: #58 jcm

Admittedly I'm no expert on evangalism. But it seems to me if the preacher who claims to be a channel for God drives around in luxury vehicles, has multiple luxury homes, flies around like a rock star, and has a trophy fashion plate wife then you can almost bet that is nothing more than a business enterprise at best. Some of that money may be channelled to charities but it's obvious that much of it is going to enriching the preacher's lifestyle. And when it becomes that I think it's no longer ethical to describe it as an organization solely to enable worship. But the preachers will often characterize it as having been blessed which is why they're so rich and successful.

That's what bugs me about it. Years ago I was in Amway because I was interested in the multi-level marketing. But at the Amway conventions many of the top successful folks were from evangelical traditions and the same techniques would be used to say you have to have Faith that your business will succeed and put your money there which also happened to enrich Amway and those very same top distributors giving the advice (it being multi-level). Although I agreed that it's not foolish to invest in your own business if that advice comes from someone who stands to definitely benefit from it then there's a vested and conflicted interest there.

Some evangelists and particularly the gaudy, weepy TV versions it seems are no different.

115 [deleted]  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:44:14am
116 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:46:12am

re: #115 jackflash

Not repeating your first couple of sentences but just letting you know that was disgusting.

117 SixDegrees  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:46:55am

re: #17 zombie

Since I'm not so sure hell exists, let's put him in a stinky prison for the rest of his accursed life, as an insurance policy that he gets at least some suffering.

Works for me. Especially if he walks in the door with a big ol' placard around his neck that says "Child Abuser."

Better yet, have it tattooed on his forehead.

118 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:46:56am

re: #4 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The *crickets* here keep murmuring in my ear about an anthill.
Maybe I should take myself out for awhile.

bbl

119 BatGuano  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:47:31am

re: #107 austin_blue

It would be well for him that is all he had to endure. The reality (I hope) will be significantly different. It is up to God to determine if he will burn in hell, but sometimes justice on Earth can come from unexpected quarters.

120 RandomUK  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:49:16am

But it is atheists who are immoral!

121 BatGuano  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:50:05am

Looking at my posts, I am going to change my nic to , TYPO MAN!

122 jcm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:50:10am

re: #114 dwells38

That's pretty much hit's the nail on the head.

If you look at say Bill Graham, or Bill Bright of Campus Crusade (both of whom I've met) they're life styles were not ostentatious. Bill Bright's home was a typical suburban rambler.

Another key, is the persons message "look at me, I'm a messenger of God" or "don't look at me, look at God."

123 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:50:10am

Well, that was fast.

124 jackflash  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:50:34am

Oops, I misspelled "disgusting" in #115. Maybe "discusting" means it's even worse than disgusting, which it is. I apologize and I won't do it again. I think I ruined my own weekend.

125 jcm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:50:41am

re: #118 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The *crickets* here keep murmuring in my ear about an anthill.
Maybe I should take myself out for awhile.

bbl

Something got pBMb bugged, but I can't put my finger on it.

126 mikalm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:50:42am

Re rich evangelists: I believe that in Luke 10:4, Jesus told His disciples to not carry any money with them while they spread the Good News.

127 BatGuano  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:51:21am

re: #120 RandomUK

He might be one.

128 jcm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:51:38am

re: #124 jackflash

Oops, I misspelled "disgusting" in #115. Maybe "discusting" means it's even worse than disgusting, which it is. I apologize and I won't do it again. I think I ruined my own weekend.

Note to self, file jackflash's misspelling away for future blackmail purposes...

;-)

129 calcajun  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:51:41am

re: #55 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The sin is blasphemy against the works of the Holy Spirit. I looked at that years ago and IIRC, it is a pretty hard one to commit.

But for ol' Bernie here, the curse is it would have been better if he had never been born if he led the children away from God. Frankly, some of these kids will never get near a church again in their lives.

130 calcajun  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:52:19am

re: #121 BatGuano

Looking at my posts, I am going to change my nic to , TYPO MAN!

He's a hunter
He's a pecker
He's an LGF thread wrecker

131 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:52:30am

I've been thinking about this 'religious authority' thing recently. Did you guys see that story about the rabbis in a scam to seel black market kidneys? Never heard of this Alamo guy before this story broke but I think they're all the same. Sociopaths find a perch of authority where they can never be questioned. Religion is a good one. So is medicine - I've seen some doozies in psychiatry.

Hell, in my family we've got one. My neice is beautiful, highly intelligent, and a textbook sociopath.

She's an Episcopalian priest.

132 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:53:07am

I see there's a lot of Tony Alamo followers here!!!

BWAHAHAHAHA.

133 jackflash  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:53:14am

re: #116 Pianobuff
I've never agreed more with someone, Pianobuff. If I hadn't been raised a Methodist, I'd feel guilty right about now. It's as close to a guilty feeling I'm going to get, however. Mea did it, mea did it.

134 neocon hippie  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:54:00am

Bernie Hoffman? Is he Jewish by birth?

135 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:54:06am

re: #118 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The *crickets* here keep murmuring in my ear about an anthill.
Maybe I should take myself out for awhile.

bbl

Just put this on and stay put instead

Penance cure

136 JHW  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:54:20am

Some of you might find this of interest. It's a data base of registered sex offenders in my county maintained by the Sheriff's Department to inform the public of the location of these jerks. The photos of some of these guys are downright scary. They almost make you believe 19th century ideas of a "criminal type". Check out the Level 3 ones, at a high risk to re-offend.
Grays Harbor County [WA] Sheriff's Database, Registered Sex Offenders

137 BatGuano  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:54:43am

re: #130 calcajun

I'll settle for, "Gangster of love".

138 mikalm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:54:56am

re: #131 wahabicorridor

Sociopaths find a perch of authority where they can never be questioned. Religion is a good one. So is medicine - I've seen some doozies in psychiatry.

Or politics.

139 mikalm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:55:22am

re: #134 neocon hippie

Bernie Hoffman? Is he Jewish by birth?

Yes.

140 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:57:02am

re: #138 mikalm

Or politics.

mmm, maybe. But politicians get a lot of scrutiny and I think I would be more inclined to put them in the narcississtic box.

141 opnion  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:58:24am

re: #121 BatGuano

Looking at my posts, I am going to change my nic to , TYPO MAN!

No no no, I've got that. I can't even spell opnion, er I mean opinyon, oh you see what I mean.

142 Ward Cleaver  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:58:30am

Tony Alamo has for decades been one of the most rabidly anti-Catholic "evangelists" out there, and I'd say he's gotten his just desserts. I hope he rots in prison.

143 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:58:49am

It's always about the sex with these guys.

144 calcajun  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:59:02am

re: #3 Sharmuta

Absolutely disgusting.

But I'm sure he's got some FABULOUS sermons./

This guy is up there with Warren Jeffs, and John Goeghan.

145 calcajun  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:00:05pm

re: #132 BigPapa

I see there's a lot of Tony Alamo followers here!!!

BWAHAHAHAHA.

Not how I want to remember the Alamo. Make him use his given name.

146 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:00:09pm

re: #136 JHW


jeebus. 27 level 3 offenders in one county?

147 JHW  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:01:03pm

re: #146 wahabicorridor

Yes, and the county has only slightly over 50,000 population.

148 calcajun  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:02:02pm

re: #139 mikalm

Yes.

Man, is he gonna be lonely in prison. He's pissed off Jews, Catholics, Protestants and he's a child molester.

Reap=Sow.

149 swamprat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:02:17pm

I wonder if these sorts of people are actually atheists using the guise of religion to bilk the gullible and exercise power over the gullible?

150 calcajun  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:03:52pm

Well, Charles and Stinky better rosin up the banned stick 'cause I'm sure there are gonna be some out there who will try to defend this bi-pedal turd.

151 calcajun  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:04:14pm

re: #149 swamprat

They are out there.

152 Ojoe  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:04:53pm

Scandals like these will rub off on the GOP.

Time for a new party.

& one that will kick members out for dishonorable behavior.

153 mikalm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:08:36pm

re: #140 wahabicorridor

Speaking of sociopathic doctors, check out these fine M.D.s:

Harold Shipman
John Bodkin Adams
Michael Swango

154 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:12:20pm

re: #152 Ojoe

Scandals like these will rub off on the GOP.

Time for a new party.

& one that will kick members out for dishonorable behavior.

I thought the guy said Reagan was the AntiChrist. That's hardly a GOP endorsement...

155 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:13:58pm

re: #153 mikalm

Shipman I'd been aware of because he's a very recent case. Adams and Swango are news to me. Interesting that Swango originally wanted to be a psychiatrist, no?

156 BatGuano  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:15:19pm

re: #149 swamprat

I wonder if these sorts of people are actually atheists using the guise of religion to bilk the gullible and exercise power over the gullible?

That is possible. On the other hand, Satan is not an atheist.

157 omahadad  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:21:12pm

"Top Evangelist"? By what criteria? I've never heard of this douche-bag, and really don't know what type of following he may have once had. However, from what I can tell, he was written off as a crackpot by the mid-80's. "Cult Leader" might be more appropriate.

158 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:22:14pm

re: #157 omahadad

"Top Evangelist"? By what criteria? I've never heard of this douche-bag, and really don't know what type of following he may have once had. However, from what I can tell, he was written off as a crackpot by the mid-80's. "Cult Leader" might be more appropriate.

"Top evangelist" by the criteria that his church was taking in millions of dollars. This was not some insignificant cult leader.

159 wahabicorridor  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:22:21pm

re: #157 omahadad

By what criteria?

Oh, my guess would be $$$

160 Ojoe  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:24:29pm

re: #154 Pianobuff

GOP is conflated with "religious right" in many people's eyes.

161 Judith  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:27:04pm
Saying that I rape little children ... I love children. I don’t abuse them. Never have. Never will,” said Alamo.

[They love it when I have sex with them. They want it and invite it and need it. I am doing them a favor when I have sex with them. It's not rape or abuse.]

sicko

162 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:27:53pm

re: #160 Ojoe

GOP is conflated with "religious right" in many people's eyes.

True. I was getting the impression from your post that somehow this guy was a problem that the GOP should have excised long ago.

Perhaps I misread.

163 Macker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:32:07pm

re: #11 MandyManners

Have fun in prison!

1,000,000 updings!

164 Wendya  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:32:55pm

re: #152 Ojoe

Scandals like these will rub off on the GOP.

Alamo was a "religious" leader in the same vein as Jim Jones or David Koresh. They exist apart from the government and American culture, hence the "cult" designation. This has nothing to do with politics, the GOP or the DNC.

165 debutaunt  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:33:44pm

re: #128 jcm

Note to self, file jackflash's misspelling away for future blackmail purposes...

;-)

I heard a little kid say, GizDusting.

166 mikalm  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:33:46pm

re: #150 calcajun

Well, Charles and Stinky better rosin up the banned stick 'cause I'm sure there are gonna be some out there who will try to defend this bi-pedal turd.

I sincerely doubt that.

167 razorbacker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:33:48pm

Residents Recall Alamo's Local Start
Alamo Opened First Church In Dyer in 1975

Alamo's Dyer compound drew legal problems almost as quickly as it opened, as the minister was named in labor abuse complaints and eventually convicted of tax evasion.

168 razorbacker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:35:58pm

Residents Speak Out About Living Near Alamo's Ministry

Terry Purvis, the mayor of Fouke, said many of the residents in his town of about 800 feel that Tony Alamo's church is too secretive.

"The general consensus of this town and people who live in this community, they believe it is a cult," said Purvis.

Purvis said armed security guards that are seen patrolling the Alamo property only feed into the allegations of wrongdoing.

In the 1980s, Alamo had a lot to do with the Crawford County community. He owned businesses in the area and made headlines frequently.

A story that many residents said they remember clearly is that when his wife, Susan, died, Alamo refused to bury her, saying that she’d soon be resurrected.

169 dapperdave  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:38:00pm

re: #168 razorbacker

That reminds me of Jim Jones, according to Wikipedia this as been going on since 1994.

170 razorbacker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:39:39pm

Jurors convict Arkansas evangelist Tony Alamo on 10 counts of sex abuse

Tony Alamo, a one-time street preacher who built a multimillion-dollar ministry and became an outfitter of the stars, was convicted Friday of taking girls as young as 9 across state lines for sex.

Alamo stood silently as the verdict was read, a contrast to his occasional mutterings during testimony. His five victims sat looking forward in the gallery. One, a woman he "married" at age 8, wiped away a tear.

"I'm just another one of the prophets that went to jail for the Gospel," Alamo called to reporters afterward as he was escorted to a waiting U.S. marshal's vehicle.

Shouts of "Bye, bye, Bernie!" — Alamo was born Bernie Lazar Hoffman —came from a crowd gathered on the Arkansas side of the courthouse, which is on the Texas-Arkansas border.

...

State and federal agents raided Alamo's compound last Sept. 20 after repeated reports of abuse. Defense lawyers said the government targeted Alamo because it doesn't like his apocalyptic brand of Christianity.

Alamo has blamed the Vatican for his legal troubles, which include a four-year prison term for tax evasion in the 1990s.

With little physical evidence, prosecutors relied on the women's stories to paint an emotional portrait of a charismatic religious leader who controlled every aspect of his subjects' lives. No one obtained food, clothing or transportation without him knowing about it.

171 razorbacker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:41:32pm

re: #169 dapperdave

That reminds me of Jim Jones, according to Wikipedia this as been going on since 1994.

Wiki is wrong. This has been going on since the 70s, and the law has been arresting him since the mid-70s.

172 dapperdave  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:44:11pm

re: #171 razorbacker

Regardless, this guy has had issues with the law for quite sometime, unfortunately it took the abuse of children to lock him up.

173 Lee Coller  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:46:17pm

re: #158 Charles

"Top evangelist" by the criteria that his church was taking in millions of dollars. This was not some insignificant cult leader.

I have to disagree with you here Charles. Billy Graham is a "top evangelist preacher." So is Rick Warren, Bill Hybels, Chuck Smith, Luis Palau, and others. These are all respected throughout the evangelical community and have tremendous influence. Tony Alamo was never in the same league as these, and has never had a following outside his own church.

174 razorbacker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:49:08pm

Former Ministry Member Tells Of Abuse, Polygamy
Former Alamo Follower Speaks Out About Underage Marriage

Alamo's ties to the area began back in 1975, when he opened his first church in Dyer. It wasn't long before the evangelist was being investigated for labor abuses and tax evasion. But former followers said the abuses also included his marriages to underage girls.

"I was in the foundation at one time for about 12 years, and I became his mother-in-law, through no knowledge of mine," said Carol Fryer, a former member of the ministry whose daughter, Jody, was married to Alamo.

Fryer said her daughter was 17 years old when Alamo asked for her hand in marriage.

But Fryer said it was less a proposal than a demand.

"She said well, let me pray about it, and he got mad, and he said, 'Well, God said he's gonna take your life if you don't cooperate,'" Fryer said.

Fryer said there was never any marriage license, and that Alamo never asked her permission. Marriage was that simple.

"He just took her. That was it," Fryer said.

Fryer said that's the way Alamo takes all of his wives. She said he already had two other wives when he married her daughter, and that one wife was just 15 years old.

So Saturday's raid, and the subsequent child pornography investigation, came as no surprise to her.

"I knew what he did to us, so I knew that it was true. I knew how many wives he had, and they were getting younger all the time," Fryer said.

She said she has no doubt that Alamo has taken part in the abuse of underage girls. She hopes the investigation proves her right.

"The same God that he kept using against everyone, he's going to stand in front of, and he knows it," Fryer said.

175 razorbacker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:51:21pm

re: #158 Charles

"Top evangelist" by the criteria that his church was taking in millions of dollars. This was not some insignificant cult leader.

Insignificant, no.

Cult leader, yes.

176 swamprat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 12:54:05pm

re: #173 Lee Coller

No True Scotman Puts Sugar On His Porridge!

Now these guys raised some cash!

"Can you make bail?"
I don't see why not.

177 capitalist piglet  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:01:14pm

re: #167 razorbacker

Residents Recall Alamo's Local Start
Alamo Opened First Church In Dyer in 1975

You have to wonder about anybody with a "compound".

I've never heard of this guy, myself. And what kind of pastor has a stage name?

178 razorbacker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:05:09pm

re: #177 capitalist piglet

You have to wonder about anybody with a "compound".

I've never heard of this guy, myself. And what kind of pastor has a stage name?

The kind that got his start in show business. He had a music career, before finding the real money in 'religion'. He also made shiny clothes for various entertainers at one time.

You can't be a self-respecting cult leader without a compound.

179 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:08:10pm

Nine years old, the girl was?

He's Mohammed, not Jesus.

180 JEA62  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:09:25pm

re: #173 Lee Coller

I do vey musch repsect guys like Graham. He has his beliefs but always repsects those who disagree with them. Neer heard of the others,but isn't Warren the one with the 'gay issues' who got kicked out for the male prostitute thing?

181 callahan23  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:09:54pm

re: #179 Cato the Elder

Nine years old, the girl was?

He's Mohammed, not Jesus.

See also: re: #30 DEZes

He has another religious figure confused with Christ.
Now what was that perverts name...
182 razorbacker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:09:57pm

The Tony Alamo Story By Nancy Ross THE FOUNDING OF ALAMO'S MINISTRY

In the early 1960's, Alamo and his late wife Susan, went out on the streets of Hollywood and West Hollywood, California and preached the Word of God to young street people, including drug addicts, alcoholics, criminals and prostitutes. They were the first of the "Jesus movement," and their street preaching attracted thousands. The Alamos' beliefs followed a strict adherence to the King James Version of the Bible, and were so popular that their first church was ironically a transformed former drug den in Hollywood. The ministry grew quickly, and soon moved to larger headquarters in West Hollywood and then to Saugus, California.

In the late 1970's, the ministry expanded to Georgia Ridge (near Fort Smith, Van Buren, Alma, and Dyer), Arkansas, where Susan Alamo was born. Soon ministries were founded in Tennessee, Arizona, Florida, Oklahoma and New York. They began modestly, by preparing meals, providing clothing and a place to sleep for their followers and anyone in need. As the congregation grew, they built housing for families, schools, nurseries, medical and recreational facilities. They developed workshops1 which provided job training for their followers, many of whom had never worked before. Through these workshops they opened a grocery store, restaurant, service station, hog farm, and trucking firm. They began manufacturing clothing, and Tony Alamo's fashions became a major success. His "glitzy" denim jackets were sold in department stores, in the most fashionable boutiques throughout the U.S. and Europe. The "Alamo of Nashville" store became world famous for its western, continental, and rock'n roll fashions. Clothes were made for Elvis Presley, Bruce Springsteen, James Brown, and countless others.

The church developed a complex social and religious environment, which one must understand to have an accurate assessment of its practices and mores. The church followed an orthodox fundamentalist tradition. Church followers lived in an extended community and dedicated their labor, money, and time to expand the church in the ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ. Whether a church member worked in a church-run workshop or in an outside job, salaries were contributed, and all personal necessities, all bills and expenses including housing, medical care, food, clothing, and schooling, were met by the church.

The primary commitment of church members was to spreading the gospel, winning new converts and building their church--not in receiving high salaries. With every restaurant meal served, every gallon of gas pumped, every jacket sold, the customer was sure to receive a church brochure, and if they chose, be "witnessed" to.

Throughout the 1970's, Alamo and the church received strong praise from government officials and the media. In 1972, Herb Ellingswood, an aid to Governor Ronald Reagan came to the Saugus community to present a commendation from the government to Tony and Sue for their work. Press from throughout the world, including the French Paris Match and German Der Stern, wrote praises about Alamo and the church. Neil Young, for Warner Brothers, recorded the Holy Alamo Christian Choir singing the "Hallelujah Chorus" and the Alamo orchestra playing "King of Kings" for the motion picture "Journey Through the Past."

183 Pianobuff  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:10:33pm

re: #177 capitalist piglet

You have to wonder about anybody with a "compound".

I've never heard of this guy, myself. And what kind of pastor has a stage name?

From what I've been reading, this guy had a very different business model. Instead of casting his net out for donations, he set up his cult followers in commercial businesses and took that money.

184 Lee Coller  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:11:50pm

re: #180 JEA62

I do vey musch repsect guys like Graham. He has his beliefs but always repsects those who disagree with them. Neer heard of the others,but isn't Warren the one with the 'gay issues' who got kicked out for the male prostitute thing?

No, you're confusing him with Ted Haggard (who incidentally I would agree was a top evangelical preacher).

185 razorbacker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:12:01pm

THE CULT AWARENESS NETWORK SEES AN OPPORTUNITY

The church's enormous growth and success also attracted the attention of the Cult Awareness Network (CAN). CAN has a significant ideological and financial interest in the destruction of churches and so-called "new religions" they unlawfully deem illegitimate, particularly those which demonstrate success in attracting large numbers of converts among young people. CAN-related deprogrammers prey on the pain of families to convince them they can cure their child of their faith, which CAN terms "brainwashing." These deprogrammers charge these parents tens of thousands of dollars, and use such "tactics" as kidnapping, coercion, and physical abuse. They subject them to sleep and food deprivation, humiliate and ridicule them, deprive them of privacy, and have even used sex--all to deprogram a "believer."

CAN went after Mr. Alamo and his ministry in the worst tradition of the Salem witch hunts, the 19th century attacks on the Mormons, and other examples of religious intolerance. CAN's campaign of demonization against Alamo lasted 25 years, during which they disseminated and distorted misleading interpretations of church practices and false information to the media, and instigated investigations by government agencies -- from the Labor Department to the I.R.S.

Several qualified religious scholars have studied Alamo’s church, and have regarded it as a legitimate fundamentalist religion. However, these scholarly opinions have been drowned out by the "cult hysteria" whipped up and unlawfully manipulated by CAN. It is this latter interpretation that has most influenced the media and the courts. Although the consensus of the psychology profession is that the concepts of "brainwashing" and "mind control" are entirely without scientific merit, the media adopted CAN's allegations that Alamo "brainwashed" his congregation. CAN pseudo-psychologists recently lost a major law suit which has permanently ended their financially beneficial practice of testifying in court that so-called "cult leaders" could "brainwash" people to act against their will. But Tony Alamo was attacked before these theories were debunked, and these phony psychologists were allowed to peddle their bogus theories against Alamo in court. They portrayed him as having total control over his congregation, and compared church workshops to sweat shops whose workers were forced to hand over all their earnings to the Tony and Susan Alamo Foundation (TSAF). Thus the image of a "cult" leader was firmly ingrained in the public's perception of Pastor Alamo; and once demonized with this label, Alamo, like the Branch Davidians, became less than human in their eyes. The successful and good work of the church, of helping people overcome crime, drug and alcohol problems, of providing stable livings and jobs, and of giving people faith in God and a reason to live, were completely ignored.

186 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:17:09pm

re: #182 razorbacker

The Tony Alamo Story By Nancy Ross THE FOUNDING OF ALAMO'S MINISTRY

re: #185 razorbacker

THE CULT AWARENESS NETWORK SEES AN OPPORTUNITY

Aha. So here comes a defender of this perv.

Puff pieces and evil CAN.

Care to share your tender feelings for $cientology with us, Razorbacker?

187 razorbacker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:18:56pm

Alamo Legal Troubles

Between 1976 and 1994, Alamo faced a multitude of lawsuits, many of them fomented by CAN. In 1976, the U.S. Labor Department filed a lawsuit against the Tony and Susan Alamo Foundation (TSAF), alleging that it was subject to the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), and that its members had to be classified as employees rather than volunteers. Church members countered that they did not expect a salary per se. They were volunteers working for the Lord and the goals of the church, and were working to pay their own bills as well as church bills. The church provided them with housing, food, all their necessities, spending money, and they were using additional money to build homes for new followers and other community facilities. The case went to the Supreme Court, which ruled in 1985 that people working in church-related businesses were subject to the minimum wage and FLSA regulations.

In January of 1988, Tony Alamo was accused of child abuse, of allegedly directing--over the telephone--the beating of 11 year old Jeremiah Justin Miller. At the time, the child was at the center of a custody battle between his mother, a member of Alamo’s church, and his father, Carey Miller who had left the church and joined CAN. Miller had abandoned the mother and the child, and according to the church, had embezzled church funds. Nonetheless, the father's accusations prompted a March of 1988 raid on the Saugus community, in which 60 Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies took the child and confiscated church property to be used as evidence. The raid turned up no evidence and the prosecutors initially declined to file charges. However, the charges were reinstated in April of 1989, when father and son, under the "guidance" of CAN-associated attorney Peter Georgiades, agreed to testify against the church. (Justin later became a ward of the state.) This case was never brought to trial, and recently, the California district attorney formally dropped the charges.

In October of 1988,nine months after the child abuse charge, Justin's father, Carey and his brother Robert Miller, filed a suit against Alamo, TSAF and Music Square Church, falsely charging Alamo with stealing their trucking business, and asserting there was no distinction between Alamo and the church. The Church claims that in fact, it was the Millers who stole $100,000 and the trucking business from the church. (The Millers used church drivers, who were never paid, as well as church administrative officers, trucks, and the church's credit rating.)

Georgiades, the Millers' attorney, claimed they tried to serve Alamo with a summons, but they couldn't find him. Even though the Millers knew Alamo was in California, they convinced the court to serve Alamo in Arkansas. The court finally effected service in an obscure Arkansas newspaper, and then charged Alamo with unlawful flight. Alamo denies this, pointing out that during the three years the government asserted he was fugitive, he was seen in pictures with Hulk Hogan, Mr. T, (now congressman) Sonny Bono and his wife, martial artist Benny the Jet Uriquidez, and George Albert of Cash Box Magazine, who were all modeling his trademark jackets. He did photo sessions with Los Angeles Mayor Tom Bradley, the mayors of Las Vegas and Jersey City; did numerous radio interviews, including several with his brother Dan Hoffman, a well-known talk show host in Nashville; attended clothing trade shows in New York, Los Angeles and Dallas; did business with several Las Vegas casinos; and had dinner with the Wynn family, owner of the Golden Nugget, Dunes and Mirage Hotels and Casinos. At one point he even spoke with the LA Sheriff’s office.

You have to remember, this is a pro-Alamo website.

188 JEA62  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:19:28pm

When someone's having sex with young girls because he's convinced them he has some sort of divine entitlement, yeah, that's a cult.

One of the reasons I left the catholic church.

189 razorbacker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:20:17pm

re: #186 Cato the Elder

Aha. So here comes a defender of this perv.

Puff pieces and evil CAN.

Care to share your tender feelings for $cientology with us, Razorbacker?

You think that dragging this into the light is a defense?

I damn them with their own words.

190 Irish Rose  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:20:55pm

While it's wrong to paint all fundamentalists like Alamo as child rapists because of the actions of a single evil man, I see a lot of evangelicals out there on the internet who are in denial, making excuses for him and urging him to appeal while harping on and on about the so-called "Christian witchhunt" being perpetrated on them by the "godless" secular media.

Because you seee, evil is only evil when non-Christians are the perps.

If a prominent Christian is the perp, it's either a 1. mistake, 2. miscarriage of justice, or 3. Satanic attack.

Me? I'm praying for his victims, and praying that he stays behind bars for the rest of his life. The man is a predator.

191 MJ  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:24:28pm

re: #79 Danny

This freak used to have a church-slash-country music clothing store down the street where I used to live in Nashville. Don't recall him purporting to be Jesus, but I guess that now makes him a for-profit prophet?

I remember going into that store once when I was visiting Nashville. He had his employees hand out these cards with anti-Catholic messages on them.

192 calcajun  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:24:54pm

re: #182 razorbacker

This is more a cult than a church. Sounds more like L Ron's bunch.

193 swamprat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:26:28pm

re: #185 razorbacker

sorry, no matter how despicable CAN might be, I doubt they got three individuals to claim statutory rape.
And I am no fan of can.
Alamo is not alone.

194 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:27:39pm

re: #90 Tumulus11

. One hundred years sounds about right.

Cien años de soledad.

195 swamprat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:30:12pm

re: #187 razorbacker

Looked like you were defending T A because the quote was so large, it looked like the base of your post.

196 razorbacker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:31:55pm

re: #193 swamprat

sorry, no matter how despicable CAN might be, I doubt they got three individuals to claim statutory rape.
And I am no fan of can.
Alamo is not alone.

re: #192 calcajun

This is more a cult than a church. Sounds more like L Ron's bunch.

This Alamo backing website can spin all that they want, but the legal trail of convictions reaching back for over three decades tells the real truth.

Alamo is a cult leader, and has been a cult leader since at least 1975.

Tony Alamo Bio.

In the early 1960s, Hoffman moved to Los Angeles, California. He assumed the names Marcus Abad and Mark Hoffman and pursued a career in music. He was briefly incarcerated for a weapon-related offense.[2] Hoffman married Helen Hagan (born Helen Alice Muller in New York, New York) in 1961. On May 25, 1964, the couple had a son, Mark Anthony Hoffman. While married to Helen, he met aspiring actress Susan Lipowitz (born Edith Opal Horn in Dyer, Arkansas[7]), a Jewish convert to evangelical Christianity who was nine years older than Hoffman and married to a man whom Hoffman would later describe as a "small time Los Angeles hood".[8] After both Hoffman's and Lipowitz' divorces, Lipowitz and Hoffman married in a 1966 Las Vegas, Nevada, ceremony, and the couple legally changed their names to Tony and Susan Alamo.[2]

Together, the couple established the Tony and Susan Alamo Christian Foundation in 1969 in Hollywood, California.[7] They also manufactured and sold a line of "Tony Alamo" brand sequined denim jackets, a business that would eventually land Alamo in prison for tax evasion.[9]

Susan delivered the sermons on the Alamos' syndicated TV program during the 1970s while Tony appeared to sing a gospel song. When Susan died of cancer on April 8, 1982, Alamo claimed she would be resurrected and kept her body on display for six months while their followers prayed. After 16 years her body was given to her childhood family. [10]

197 swamprat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:32:46pm

re: #196 razorbacker

Agreed.

198 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:32:48pm

re: #189 razorbacker

You think that dragging this into the light is a defense?

I damn them with their own words.

Ah. You gave no hint either way - just posting the quotes. I do apologize.

199 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:34:17pm

re: #193 swamprat

sorry, no matter how despicable CAN might be, I doubt they got three individuals to claim statutory rape.
And I am no fan of can.
Alamo is not alone.

What's despicable about CAN? Can we have the links? As far as I can see, they get shitcanned for shining light on swine.

200 capitalist piglet  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:35:49pm

re: #189 razorbacker

You think that dragging this into the light is a defense?

I damn them with their own words.

I understood what you were doing. This one sounds like the kind of guy who could end up instructing people to drink koolaid on a cheap P.A. system.

201 calcajun  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:35:51pm

re: #196 razorbacker

I take it back. This is what Charlie Manson would have become if he had not been caught.

202 Wendya  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:36:14pm

re: #182 razorbacker

The Tony Alamo Story By Nancy Ross THE FOUNDING OF ALAMO'S MINISTRY

Nancy Ross, of Ross and Green, a now defunct front group for the New Alliance Party. Kooks defending Kooks.

203 razorbacker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:36:41pm

re: #195 swamprat

Looked like you were defending T A because the quote was so large, it looked like the base of your post.

When you have that level of crazy on display, you don't have to provide commentary. All you have to do is let the crazy talk speak for itself.

This guy is nuts. He has been nuts for a long time. And, like Jim Jones, charismatic nuts attract weak-minded souls to them and feed off them. When someone attempting to provide cover for Alamo has to detail that long a history of convictions that should speak for itself.

204 swamprat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:39:06pm

re: #199 Cato the Elder

They are a bit rabid for my tastes. Their agenda seems to be a broader than just cults. It is possible I am wrong, but I lack the interest to check. It is saturday.
:^)

205 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:46:19pm

re: #158 Charles

"Top evangelist" by the criteria that his church was taking in millions of dollars. This was not some insignificant cult leader.

I had heard of Tony Alamo before, because his followers had a practice some years ago of going around sticking Alamo's tracts under the windshield wipers of cars in parking lots here in Memphis.

From a cursory glance at their content, I'd always considered him to be a cult leader. His organization was clearly personality-based around Alamo.

Maybe a "significant cult leader" would be a better description.

206 razorbacker  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:47:17pm

To lay it out in words of few syllables, the Alamos have been preying on the most vulnerable of society for at least four decades.

They have used famous people as cover for their activities.

They have lost numerous court cases, and been fined millions of dollars.

Their followers have been convicted in multiple states of multiple crimes.

This hopefully final conviction should expose the fraud for good. I doubt that it will. There are always those who close their eyes to what disturbs them.

207 ladycatnip  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:49:26pm

What's weird is I got one of their "brochures" on my windshield yesterday at Costco. These people are on some really strong koolaid.

208 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:53:27pm

Funny how when Catholic priests get convicted of sex abuse, the evangelicals crow, but when it's one of their own, it's an anti-Christian witch hunt.

And funny how a witch hunt is a bad thing if the witches being hunted are your brother shysters pastors, but these guys have no problem quoting the Old Testament's "you shall not suffer a witch to live" when they're ranting against actual Wiccans.

And funniest of all:

When Susan died of cancer on April 8, 1982, Alamo claimed she would be resurrected and kept her body on display for six months while their followers prayed.

Talk about stinking the place up.

I think name changes automatically make anyone suspect. Would you buy a used doctrine from a guy named Bernie Hoffman? How about a movie starring Thomas Mapother IV?

Actually, I'd rather have a Hoffman than an Alamo. Remember, the Mexicans won that fight.

209 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:53:59pm

re: #56 mikalm

"And whoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea." -- Jesus Christ, Mark 9:42

I always like to remind folks who have some sort of religious objection to capital punishment about that part.

WWJD?

He'd have Alamo "swim with the fishes."

210 templar  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:54:15pm

This man was a scumbag, pure and simple. But to try and blame "organized religion" (whatever that particular term means) or evangelicals is wide of the mark. It would be the same as me saying that all teachers are perverts and child-molesters because a few of them sleep with their students. Personally I'd like to see this guy making hand-crafted gravel for the rest of his days.

211 ladycatnip  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:55:22pm

For anyone to use the term evangelist and Tony Alamo in the same sentence is grabbing pretty hard at straws. Billy Graham personifies the term evangelist, with the following and credibility that went with it. Alamo is a cult leader, a charlatan and a con artist - he's not even a blip on mainstream Christianity's radar screen.

212 templar  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:57:21pm

re: #208 Cato the Elder

Umm, the article linked to stated by Mr. Hoffman was going to be locked up for up to 100 years. I don't recall a jail term like that being handed out to a Catholic priest. This guy also didn't have a high-ranking church hierarchy moving him from parish to parish when someone complained.

213 MJ  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 1:58:34pm

re: #208 Cato the Elder

Funny how when Catholic priests get convicted of sex abuse, the evangelicals crow, but when it's one of their own, it's an anti-Christian witch hunt.

And funny how a witch hunt is a bad thing if the witches being hunted are your brother shysters pastors, but these guys have no problem quoting the Old Testament's "you shall not suffer a witch to live" when they're ranting against actual Wiccans.

And funniest of all:

Talk about stinking the place up.

I think name changes automatically make anyone suspect. Would you buy a used doctrine from a guy named Bernie Hoffman? How about a movie starring Thomas Mapother IV?

Actually, I'd rather have a Hoffman than an Alamo. Remember, the Mexicans won that fight.

Alamo is an extreme anti-Catholic bigot besides being a Pedophile. All people of good will should be glad he's locked up.

214 JEA62  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:03:26pm

re: #212 templar

The worst part of all that was the cover-up. I read Phila DA Lynn Abraham's report - well, the first 6 of it pages anyway. I couldn't get past that b/c it was making me violently ill. It made Ken Starr's report on Clinton look like G-rated family fare...


Actually the worst part is that nobody's rotting in jails for this.

215 ladycatnip  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:06:25pm

#208 Cato the Elder

Funny how when Catholic priests get convicted of sex abuse, the evangelicals crow, but when it's one of their own, it's an anti-Christian witch hunt.

Really? You have links to mainstream evangelicals "crowing"? I sure as heck have never crowed and none of our church friends or any of our pastors have ever crowed. In fact, any type of schadenfreude is verboten - right out of Proverbs. If you want chapter and verse will be happy to provide it.

Speaking as a Christian, I'm relieved this guy has been taken off the streets.

216 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:08:02pm

re: #211 ladycatnip

For anyone to use the term evangelist and Tony Alamo in the same sentence is grabbing pretty hard at straws. Billy Graham personifies the term evangelist, with the following and credibility that went with it. Alamo is a cult leader, a charlatan and a con artist - he's not even a blip on mainstream Christianity's radar screen.

Billy Graham can kiss my born-again-Catholic Judeophilic ass.

On Jews in the media:

"This stranglehold has got to be broken or the country's going down the drain," the nation's best-known preacher said as he agreed with a stream of Nixon comments about Jews and their perceived influence in American life.

"You believe that?" says Nixon after the "stranglehold" comment.

"Yes, sir," says Graham.

"Oh, boy," replies Nixon. "So do I. I can't ever say that, but I believe it."

"No, but if you get elected a second time, then we might be able to do something," replies Graham.

Later, Graham mentions that he has friends in the media who are Jewish, saying they "swarm around me and are friendly to me." But, he confides to Nixon, "They don't know how I really feel about what they're doing to this country."

One link among hundreds.

Never trust a grownup who goes by Billy, Jimmy or Bobby. To name a few.

217 swamprat  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:09:29pm

Of course the headline is:
"Top Evangelist Preacher Convicted of Pedophilia"
But it could also have been:

"White Male abuses power over innocent children"
Organization of Oppressed Women

"Rich Businessman Exposed in Shocking Scandal!
CapitalistWatch.org

"Registered (whatever) Marries Children/Party Disavows"
PartisanPunditNews

"American Molests Followers"
USSRpoliticstoday

"Anti-Catholic Arrested"
Papist-Inquirer

218 Balian1193  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:11:28pm

Pedophiles usually don't last long in prison. Even convicted felons have standards.

219 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:14:12pm

re: #210 templar

This man was a scumbag, pure and simple. But to try and blame "organized religion" (whatever that particular term means) or evangelicals is wide of the mark. It would be the same as me saying that all teachers are perverts and child-molesters because a few of them sleep with their students. Personally I'd like to see this guy making hand-crafted gravel for the rest of his days.

I haven't seen a single person trying to "blame organized religion" for Tony Alamo. He's an evangelist, who made tens of millions of dollars with his church, and he was convicted of sex with minors.

Why the thin skins? Nobody said all Christians are like this, and nobody said all evangelists are like this.

220 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:14:58pm

re: #215 ladycatnip

#208 Cato the Elder

Really? You have links to mainstream evangelicals "crowing"? [...]

Ah, yes, the "No True Mainstream Evangelical" fallacy.

I take it from your encomium above that Dick Graham is pretty mainstream in your eyes. So I guess he can't have said those things about Jews, right?

221 ladycatnip  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:17:10pm

Cato,

Sorry to read those quotes, as I have always respected what Graham has done in his life. I've been to a total of two of his crusades in the last 45 years, so that wouldn't make me an expert on him. I would hope he has changed since the Nixon days. Do you have recent quotes to that end?

The churches we've been in the last 40 years have all been pro-Israel. The Bible is pretty plain speaking when it comes to the Jews - you curse them, you'll get cursed; you bless them, you'll be blessed. Pretty simple, really.

222 ladycatnip  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:19:17pm

#220 Cato

I'll re-direct you to my #221 post.

223 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:24:02pm

re: #221 ladycatnip

Sorry to read those quotes, as I have always respected what Graham has done in his life. I've been to a total of two of his crusades in the last 45 years, so that wouldn't make me an expert on him. I would hope he has changed since the Nixon days. Do you have recent quotes to that end?

I would suggest that what you say in the Oval Office to the President in a confidential talk (or in this case, one you don't know is being recorded) is probably pretty close to what you actually believe, regardless of how you weasel around when - surprise! - the tapes pop out of the archives. I never trusted Graham and these recordings bear me out.

The churches we've been in the last 40 years have all been pro-Israel. The Bible is pretty plain speaking when it comes to the Jews - you curse them, you'll get cursed; you bless them, you'll be blessed. Pretty simple, really.

Agreed, there. Odd how many Christians (= converts to a Jewish worldview) still have trouble wrapping their minds around that one.

224 Salamantis  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:31:16pm

re: #203 razorbacker

When you have that level of crazy on display, you don't have to provide commentary. All you have to do is let the crazy talk speak for itself.

This guy is nuts. He has been nuts for a long time. And, like Jim Jones, charismatic nuts attract weak-minded souls to them and feed off them. When someone attempting to provide cover for Alamo has to detail that long a history of convictions that should speak for itself.

Tony Alamo strikes me as a more successful and nonsuicidal version of David Koresh. He certainly shared Koresh's sexual proclivities.

225 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:32:09pm

re: #224 Salamantis

Tony Alamo strikes me as a more successful and nonsuicidal version of David Koresh. He certainly shared Koresh's sexual proclivities.

Kinda like another famous pseudo-prophet of old. Good thing that sect never prospered...

226 Salamantis  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:35:07pm

re: #211 ladycatnip

For anyone to use the term evangelist and Tony Alamo in the same sentence is grabbing pretty hard at straws. Billy Graham personifies the term evangelist, with the following and credibility that went with it. Alamo is a cult leader, a charlatan and a con artist - he's not even a blip on mainstream Christianity's radar screen.

Many televangelists have fallen due to sexual issues of which there can be no doubt that they were major players; Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Robert Tilton, and Ted Haggard immediately come to mind.

227 ladycatnip  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:53:34pm

#226 Salamantis

Many televangelists have fallen due to sexual issues of which there can be no doubt that they were major players; Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Robert Tilton, and Ted Haggard immediately come to mind.

You're right - I totally yield on this point.

228 calcajun  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:54:17pm

re: #223 Cato the Elder

Simple way for Christians to look at it: The guy you worship as God (irrespective of the trinity stuff) is a Jewish carpenter-- so how can you dislike Jews?

229 gander  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 2:56:56pm

A quick scan of his website reveals him to be preaching the gospel of anti-Catholicism. Everything else is secondary.

230 Steffan  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:10:15pm

I admit I'm coming to this discussion late, as usual.

I don't blame Christianity or evangelism for this low-rent cocksucker.

I would, however, like to know why he is still breathing, given the crimes he committed.

There has got to be more than one parent out there who wants to turn him into compost. I'd help. I can, in fact, think of a few places where they would never find the body.

If that offends you, Charles, I apologize. I have very very little patience for people -- If I may use that term -- like the unillustrious Mr. Alamo.

Actually, if I may borrow the terminology of the entirely illustrious Gunnery Sergeant R. Lee Ermey, describing this asshole as "an unorganized grabasstic piece of amphibian shit" is being too kind to him. However, saying that he is "not even a human fucking being" sounds about right.

I have long thought that the cruelest punishment possible for a murderer or rapist, especially if the victim is a child, is to give him to the family, unsupervised, for five minutes. I seriously believe that such a punishment in such cases as this is not so much warranted as mandated.

231 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:13:19pm

re: #229 gander

A quick scan of his website reveals him to be preaching the gospel of anti-Catholicism. Everything else is secondary.

It's telling, but I'd hardly call child-rape "secondary". And I say that very consciously as a Catholic.

232 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:45:38pm

re: #37 kynna

He used Jesus to get himself there. Lower than low. That kind of evil is extra special and has a whole wing dedicated to it in the hot place.

And people who talk/answer cell phones during a movie at your cinema of choice.

233 Steffan  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:49:36pm

re: #136 JHW

Some of you might find this of interest. It's a data base of registered sex offenders in my county maintained by the Sheriff's Department to inform the public of the location of these jerks. The photos of some of these guys are downright scary. They almost make you believe 19th century ideas of a "criminal type". Check out the Level 3 ones, at a high risk to re-offend.
Grays Harbor County [WA] Sheriff's Database, Registered Sex Offenders

I think I can do you one better.

[Link: www.meganslaw.ca.gov...]

Welcome to the California Department of Justice's Internet web site, which lists designated registered sex offenders in California.

As a result of a new law, this site will provide you with access to information on more than 63,000 persons required to register in California as sex offenders. Specific home addresses are displayed on more than 33,500 offenders in the California communities; as to these persons, the site displays the last registered address reported by the offender. An additional 30,500 offenders are included on the site with listing by ZIP Code, city, and county. Information on approximately 22,000 other offenders is not included on this site, but is known to law enforcement personnel.

Once you have read and acknowledged the disclaimer on the next page, you may search the database by a sex offender's specific name, obtain ZIP Code and city/county listings, obtain detailed personal profile information on each registrant, and use our map application to search your neighborhood or anywhere throughout the State to determine the specific location of any of those registrants on whom the law allows us to display a home address.

234 Fierce Guppy  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:51:23pm

Alamo denies any guilt but then if you read his statement posted to the Tony Alamo Christian Ministries he implicitly admits guilt by defining the the legal age of marriage as being the age of puberty which, for girls, is 9-14 years old.

"The legal age of marriage is puberty. Webster�s Dictionary states childhood is the �state or time of being a child; state or time from birth or infancy to puberty or maturity.� Webster�s definition of puberty is the age when one becomes capable to bear children, which is marked by maturing of the reproductive organs, with the onset of menstruation in the female; the period at which sexual maturity is reached.� The Bible says this as well."

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the Bible stipulates no punishment for having sex with prepubescent girls let alone post pubescent girls less than 18 years old. It only mentions a physical attribute whereby the female has reached maidenhood or womanhood and is ready for intercourse, namely her having fully formed breasts. It would seem there is quite a bit of wiggle room for the pedophile in pleading a non-crime if he were to make the Bible his legal document.

Tony.

235 Steffan  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:03:03pm

Tony Alamo is a slimeball beyond any redemption.

Whacking his peepee would be entirely appropriate. Whacking his peepee with a sharp knife would be more appropriate.

Actually, doing it with a spoon -- because it would hurt more -- would be more appropriate.

If there was anyone eligible for the Darwin Award, it should be him. His polluting the gene pool is a scary thought.

236 JEA62  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:57:09pm

re: #227 ladycatnip


I've noticed the ones who fall are usually the ones who spend the most amount of airtime asking for money.

237 JohnH  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:05:26pm

"Top" evangelist?

Nonsense. I'm an evangelical and I have never heard of this nut. (There are plenty of nuts out there that I have heard of). I don't even think he can be considered a televangelist because he is not on TV. Even his website only lists about 15 radio stations.

238 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:20:50pm

re: #237 JohnH

"Top" evangelist?

Nonsense. I'm an evangelical and I have never heard of this nut. (There are plenty of nuts out there that I have heard of). I don't even think he can be considered a televangelist because he is not on TV. Even his website only lists about 15 radio stations.

The guy made tens of millions of dollars. Are there a lot of evangelists who make this much money?

239 Lee Coller  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:00:54pm

re: #238 Charles

The guy made tens of millions of dollars. Are there a lot of evangelists who make this much money?

Evangelists aren't rated by how much money they make.

240 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:16:55pm

re: #239 Lee Coller

Evangelists aren't rated by how much money they make.

Tell that to Pat Robertson.

241 Simple Voice  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:01:44pm

Tony Alamo gives human beings a bad name.

242 spudly  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 8:06:58pm

He shoulda changed his name to Muhammad, then the 9 YO thing would look better, right?

243 gander  Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:39:36pm

re: #231 Cato the Elder

It's telling, but I'd hardly call child-rape "secondary". And I say that very consciously as a Catholic.

re: #231 Cato the Elder

Cato, if you are still out there...
I meant secondary to his theology or mission, not his activities. I must work on clarifying my statements.

244 el polacko  Sun, Jul 26, 2009 12:00:15am

"never have... and never WILL"... golly ! thanks for THAT assurance !

245 theuglydougling  Sun, Jul 26, 2009 8:25:40am

He is hardly a "top" evangelist. He's been a pariah in Arkansas for decades. You know, Arkansas? That buckle in the Bible Belt? He's hated there. If anything his lots of money comes from being a huckster and fraud.

246 Roger  Sun, Jul 26, 2009 8:28:09am

re: #56 mikalm

"And whoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea." -- Jesus Christ, Mark 9:42

Amen!


Titus 1:6 An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. 7 Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless—not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. 8 Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined.

247 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 26, 2009 9:47:28am

re: #245 theuglydougling

He is hardly a "top" evangelist. He's been a pariah in Arkansas for decades. You know, Arkansas? That buckle in the Bible Belt? He's hated there. If anything his lots of money comes from being a huckster and fraud.

Over and over in this thread, the same denial.

Are there a lot of evangelists who make tens of millions of dollars with their ministries? I'm guessing there are very few. And it's not wrong to describe the ones who do pull in that much cash as being in the top tier.

248 JohnH  Sun, Jul 26, 2009 2:46:42pm

Your criteria as to what constitutes a "top" evangelist is certainly different than mine. It's not all about money. In fact, it never is.

249 AndyMacOP  Sun, Jul 26, 2009 3:47:48pm

Jim Jones part 2? He also claimed that he was God. This cult therapy site also confirms that the vast majority of Christian evangelists do not make it on anyone's list of cult organizations. I guess its just a matter of how one uses the term "evangelist." I have sympathy for my evangelical brethren who want nothing to do with this guy and would not go near his "Christian Center." How incredibly sad that children have been abused again through the manipulation of faith in Jesus Christ. The millstone is waiting.

250 cwm3  Sun, Jul 26, 2009 4:29:32pm

Thanks, seriously, for using quotation marks around "church". It only required a couple minutes of visiting Alamo's website to verify that it is in no way Christian. (This is not a case of "no true Scotsman": the hatred and venom on the website are antithetical to Christian doctrine, Scripture and practice.

251 JEA62  Sun, Jul 26, 2009 4:45:27pm

re: #248 JohnH

It's about money for far too many of 'em

252 Salamantis  Sun, Jul 26, 2009 4:54:56pm

re: #251 JEA62

It's about money for far too many of 'em

Do people really think that Robertson, Dobson, Warren and the late Falwell would be considered to be top evangelists if they only pulled in a few thou a month?

253 JohnH  Sun, Jul 26, 2009 4:58:05pm

re: #251 JEA62

And that is EXACTLY one of the criteria that the Bible says is to be used to judge false teachers. Alamo met that and other qualifications (like satisfying his own lusts) in spades.

I just object to the "top evangelist" designation used. "Money grubbing pervert who claims to be evangelist" would have been a more honest description.

Unless, of course, you want to paint all evangelists with the same brush.

254 JEA62  Mon, Jul 27, 2009 5:27:11am

I certainly believe there are a lot of good Evangelicals out there.

255 theuglydougling  Mon, Jul 27, 2009 12:58:17pm

If I said that Osama bin Laden is representative of mainstream Islam ("top Muslim cleric"), I would be rightly denounced. If I said that those involved in the criminal acts at Burr Oak cemetery were "top African-American business leaders" I would probably be called a racist.

The term "top evangelist" would almost universally refer to a leading mainstream Christian. Alamo is anything but. But hey, what do I know, I only grew up in that area and was bombarded with the news nightly for years. Perhaps you can tell us how many gaudy, overpriced, sequin-studded jackets Billy Graham sold...


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