Hawaii Reiterates: Obama Birth Certificate is Real

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The director of the Hawaii Department of Health, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, has issued a second statement that she has personally seen Barack Obama’s original birth certificate from 1961 in the state’s archives: Hawaii: Obama birth certificate is real.

“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai’i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago….”

On Oct. 31, Fukino originally tried to put an end to the belief among so-called “birthers” that Obama was not born in the United States and thus was ineligible to run for the office of president.

Despite Fukino’s statement today, the issue continued to resonate from Capitol Hill to the national airwaves to the blogosphere.

Of course it “continued to resonate.” Facts and logic have no effect on true believers of a conspiracy theory, and I’m sure they’ve already come up with a delusional answer to this announcement.

At LGF, November 1, 2008: Hawaii State Verifies Obama Birth Certificate.

Also last night, nine Republican co-sponsors of a Nirther-inspired bill signed a resolution including a specific statement that Obama was born in Hawaii.

It’s symbolic, but Democrats have scored a victory [of sorts] over nine House Republicans who signed on to the so-called “Birther” bill — getting them on the record in support of a resolution that explicitly states that President Obama was born in Hawaii.

None of the nine — Reps. Marsha Blackburn [R-Tenn.], Dan Burton [R-Ind.], John Campbell [R-Calif.] John Carter [R-Tex.], John Culberson [R-Tex.], Robert Goodlatte [R-Va.], Kenny Marchant [R-Tex.], Randy Neugebauer [R-Tex.] and Rep. Ted Poe [R-Tex.] — objected to the unanimous approval of a resolution honoring the 50th anniversary of Hawaii’s Statehood last night.

The key clause, cleverly inserted by Rep. Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii): “Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii;”

UPDATE at 7/28/09 10:15:44 am:

Heh: BREAKING NEWS!!!! Shocking proof that Obama was not born in Hawaii.

Jump to bottom

325 comments

1 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:49:25am
2 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:50:00am

What, the GOP Nirthers didn’t read the bill?

3 doppelganglander  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:50:10am

What’s the over/under today?

4 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:50:32am

Thank God. Now can we move on to real issues? Like Chemtrails?
///

5 JustABill  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:51:26am

re: #1 buzzsawmonkey

But is Hawaii a real state?

Yea, I think its the 57th state…/

6 Kragar  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:51:28am

So, they got to the Hawaiians huh? If its not the Illuminati, its the damn Masons or the Pentaverate.

/

7 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:51:50am

Five bucks on #390

8 saberry0530  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:51:50am

NANANANANANANANANAAA (fingers stuffed in ears)

///

9 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:52:05am

Things do tend to reverberate in empty skulls.

10 Kragar  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:52:24am

Birthers drank the Left’s “Its all about feelings” Kool aid.

11 CIA Reject  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:52:27am

re: #4 Cannadian Club Akbar

Thank God. Now can we move on to real issues? Like Chemtrails?
///

Or the Belgian Conspiracy

12 keithgabryelski  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:52:38am

i had thought this would exacerbate the issue, fuel the birthers’ conspiracy theories.

It seems, reading freerepublic.com that things are calming down, actually.

13 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:52:49am

I’ve heard that there might be a new series of Hawaii 5-0, this time, with “McGarrett’s son” and “Dan’l son” in those roles.
I can just see an episode in which they have to deal with nirthers who are trying to break in to the records storage to steal the birth certificate, and replace it with one showing he was born elsewhere.

14 wiffersnapper  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:52:50am

How many people’s minds will be changed by this announcement? Is 0 too high a number? How unfortunate for those nirthers.

15 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:52:55am

re: #7 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Five bucks on #390

131

16 pat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:53:04am

The clincher:

In November 2008, The Advertiser reported that the first published mention of the future president appeared in a Sunday Advertiser birth announcement that ran on Aug. 13, 1961:

“Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy., son, Aug. 4.”

The identical announce- ment ran the following day in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin.

Birthers wave off those birth announcements, saying that Obama family members 48 years ago could have phoned in false information to both newspapers.

Such vital statistics, however, were not sent to the newspapers by the general public but by the Health Department, which received the information directly from hospitals, Okubo said

.

Please. You simply cannot get around that. Obama does not want to release these records for reasons other than veracity. Now he would be caving if he did and I agree with him on that point.

17 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:53:12am

re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So, they got to the Hawaiians huh? If its not the Illuminati, its the damn Masons or the Pentaverate.

/

I’d really like to be an Illuminati. I’d put it on a business card and work it into conversations.

But only if we got cool hidden passages in our houses and puzzle boxes and adventures and mysteries. If it were just sitting around in meetings…Nah.

18 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:53:38am

The front page of World Nut Daily is hilarious this morning. Headlines include…

CNN wrong once again – birth record not destroyed

Hawaii contradicts network boss’ claim that Obama certificate no longer exists

Hawaii’s statement on Obama birth record breaks law?

Fax blast asking states to investigate eligibility

Why eligibility story is still alive

Did Obama even write letter to ‘birth hospital’?

19 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:54:14am

re: #1 buzzsawmonkey

But is Hawaii a real state?

A state of what?

/NO PAT! … remember that I’m privileged, I went to high school there

20 spudly  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:54:45am

The entire government of Hawaii are dupes of the conspiracy! Get with the program! ;)

21 pingjockey  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:55:11am

re: #18 Killgore Trout
That is a sorry state of affairs right there. Get better headlines from The Sun, or another wacky tabloid.

22 MandyManners  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:55:25am

re: #13 Kosh’s Shadow

I’ve heard that there might be a new series of Hawaii 5-0, this time, with “McGarrett’s son” and “Dan’l son” in those roles.
I can just see an episode in which they have to deal with nirthers who are trying to break in to the records storage to steal the birth certificate, and replace it with one showing he was born elsewhere.

“Fuck ‘em, Danno.”

23 MikeAlv77  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:55:40am

You are all forgetting that this just means the conspiracy is at an even higher level… The whole state government of Hawaii is in on this.. The Illuminati have penetrated even deeper than first thought.

//

24 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:55:46am

re: #15 Cannadian Club Akbar

131

You might very well win. 390’s boilerplate with me, but I did think about lowering it for this one.

25 lawhawk  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:55:47am

The National Review also posted a lengthy statement slamming the Nirthers.

Much foolishness has become attached to the question of President Obama’s place of birth, and a few misguided souls among the Right have indulged it. The myth that Barack Obama is ineligible to be president represents the hunt for a magic bullet that will make all the unpleasant complications of his election and presidency disappear. We are used to seeing conspiracy theories from the Left, for instance among the one in three Democrats who believe that 9/11 was an inside job conducted with the foreknowledge of the Bush administration. We’ve seen everything under the sun blamed on Dick Cheney and Halliburton, and Rosie O’Donnell has given us much mirth with her metallurgical expertise, while Andrew Sullivan has beclowned himself and tarnished the good name of The Atlantic with his investigation into the “real” parentage of Trig Palin. Most notable, the Iraq War summoned the craziness in a big way, and there are those who still shudder over their espressos at the mention of the Carlyle Group. And there is a fair amount of crossover between those fixated on Obama’s birth certificate and the 9/11 “truthers” — lawyer Phil Berg, for instance, is a player in both worlds. There is nothing that President Obama’s coterie would enjoy more than to see the responsible Right become a mirror image of the loopy Left circa 2003.
26 Kragar  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:56:00am

re: #17 EmmmieG

I’d really like to be an Illuminati. I’d put it on a business card and work it into conversations.

But only if we got cool hidden passages in our houses and puzzle boxes and adventures and mysteries. If it were just sitting around in meetings…Nah.

I’m going for the Masons. I got a spare apron sitting around.

The Pentaverate still are restructuring since the Colonel died. It hit them hard.

27 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:56:28am

All these Birther stories makes it more mainstream causing folks who think like this to believe this nonsense.

28 pat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:56:40am

World Net Daily has seen an entire library of theories dissolve into nothingness

29 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:56:41am

BTW, Happy Anniversary, Hawaii!

30 CIA Reject  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:56:49am

Doesn’t anybody understand that the complete lack of any credible evidence is PROOF POSITIVE that THE CONSPIRACY IS WORKING?!

///

31 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:56:56am

re: #20 spudly

The entire government of Hawaii are dupes of the conspiracy! Get with the program! ;)

Yes, it took so long for the secret forgers working for the Illuminati and the Bildbergers to make a fake birth certificate and hide it so that it will be found and presented as the real one.
///SARC!

32 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:57:05am

5 of the 9 birthers are from Texas …

33 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:57:13am

re: #24 pre-Boomer Marine brat

You might very well win. 390’s boilerplate with me, but I did think about lowering it for this one.

BUT, when will Stinky bring out the bat?

34 albusteve  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:57:41am

you can’t stop them, you can only hope to contain them

35 MikeAlv77  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:57:59am

re: #29 Ward Cleaver

BTW, Happy Anniversary, Hawaii!


Sure, just go celebrate the illegal occupation of a sovereign nation (of people of color by the way) by the oppressive white man…

///

36 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:58:08am

re: #26 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I’m going for the Masons. I got a spare apron sitting around.

The Pentaverate still are restructuring since the Colonel died. It hit them hard.

My grandfather was a mason. He seemed pretty tame. I think he golfed.

My mother has his ring. I think I’ve played too many video games, because I keep hoping it will open a secret passage somewhere and start us all on a mysterious quest to find the answer to an ages-old question.

Most likely, it will continue to sit in my mother’s jewelry box as a reminder of a really great guy, but I can hope.

37 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:58:08am
38 MandyManners  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:58:51am

Did any Democrats try to debate Troofers and Code Pink and the like, to show them the error of their ways?

39 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:58:55am

re: #27 unrealizedviewpoint

All these Birther stories makes it more mainstream causing folks who think like this to believe this nonsense.

Ouch.

40 JarHeadLifer  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:59:17am

re: #18 Killgore Trout

The front page of World Nut Daily is hilarious this morning. Headlines include…

In the interest of accuracy, they are right about CNN being wrong. Just a couple of days ago CNN reported (perhaps made-up out of whole cloth) that all original birth certificates were destroyed when HI migrated to a computerized vital records system. That factoid appears now to be entirely inaccurate, according to Dr. Fukino. Just another in a long line of stories that CNN mangles.

41 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:59:47am

re: #32 _RememberTonyC

5 of the 9 birthers are from Texas …

Great, thanks for reminding me.

42 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:59:50am

re: #27 unrealizedviewpoint

All these Birther stories makes it more mainstream causing folks who think like this to believe this nonsense.

Heh, not too far from the truth: Fox News relocates Egypt and Iraq

43 keithgabryelski  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:59:52am

the question is: will this die completely by the end of this year or become the rights’ version of President George W. Bush was AWOL claim.

44 MikeAlv77  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:00:14am

re: #40 JarHeadLifer

In the interest of accuracy, they are right about CNN being wrong. Just a couple of days ago CNN reported (perhaps made-up out of whole cloth) that all original birth certificates were destroyed when HI migrated to a computerized vital records system. That factoid appears now to be entirely inaccurate, according to Dr. Fukino. Just another in a long line of stories that CNN mangles.

OH NO!!! The birthers will use that as reason to think CNN let slip the real conspiracy..

45 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:00:53am

OK, we may have to grant that he was born in Hawai’i. But Hawai’i is the youngest state in the Union. That tells me something is wrong. And if you take a set of dividers and run it from Hawai’i to the mainland, then sweep northwards in an arc, you’ll see that this so-called “state” is almost as close to Russian as it is to US!

Something’s definitely going on here, and thank God for the brave birthers who are willing to put their reputations and sanity on the line to find out what it is!

46 pingjockey  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:01:01am

re: #42 Killgore Trout
OOPS! MWahahaha!

47 funky chicken  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:01:08am

Well, the health department wants to poison us all with vaccines, so how can its director be trusted?

///

48 Kragar  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:01:10am

re: #43 keithgabryelski

the question is: will this die completely by the end of this year or become the rights’ version of President George W. Bush was AWOL claim.

I can easily see this being the rallying cry for idiots for the next 50 years.

49 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:01:38am

re: #43 keithgabryelski

the question is: will this die completely by the end of this year or become the rights’ version of President George W. Bush was AWOL claim.

I’m voting for the latter. Sadly.

50 MikeAlv77  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:02:22am

I still think that someone comes up with these stupid conspiracies and releases them on the internet just to see who will believe it. Of course, that in itself is a conspiracy… Now I’ve stumbled on it…

51 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:02:42am

re: #45 Cato the Elder

OK, we may have to grant that he was born in Hawai’i. But Hawai’i is the youngest state in the Union. That tells me something is wrong. And if you take a set of dividers and run it from Hawai’i to the mainland, then sweep northwards in an arc, you’ll see that this so-called “state” is almost as close to Russian as it is to US!

Something’s definitely going on here, and thank God for the brave birthers who are willing to put their reputations and sanity on the line to find out what it is!

Better them than us!

52 funky chicken  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:03:13am

re: #38 MandyManners

Did any Democrats try to debate Troofers and Code Pink and the like, to show them the error of their ways?

Bill Clinton did, and I’ve gotta give him credit for doing it.

53 calcajun  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:03:16am

Still won’t be enough for the loonies— they want the REAL document.

Hey, ask Dan Rather. I’m sure he knows some folks that can gin up something that looks close enough.

54 Idle Drifter  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:03:42am

Any bets on someone using a dowsing rod to find President Obama’s real birth certificated or using the dowsing rods to communicate with spirits over its authenticity.

55 calcajun  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:03:49am

re: #52 funky chicken

He ended up purple-faced and calling them loonies.

56 albusteve  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:04:06am

re: #52 funky chicken

Bill Clinton did, and I’ve gotta give him credit for doing it.

how much did he earn from it?…his fees got pretty steep

57 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:04:14am

re: #52 funky chicken

Bill Clinton did, and I’ve gotta give him credit for doing it.

No, he was just hitting on them.

/

58 dwells38  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:04:20am

Hey I think Charles made a typo here: Hawaii Reiterates: Obama Birth Certificate is Real

He forgot the word “fishy”

/lol!

59 calcajun  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:04:52am

re: #50 MikeAlv77

I still think that someone comes up with these stupid conspiracies and releases them on the internet just to see who will believe it. Of course, that in itself is a conspiracy… Now I’ve stumbled on it…

Now, all we have to do is write a book and we can make a few bucks peddling it to these suckers.

60 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:05:10am

re: #18 Killgore Trout

On the other hand is Drudge:

White House ridicules Obama birth certificate issue as ‘made up, fictional nonsense’…

‘The President was born in Honolulu, Hawaii… he’s a citizen… proven ad nauseum’…

‘Nothing will assuage’ doubters…

State declares Obama birth certificate real, again…

CNN’s Lou Dobbs: Hawaii officials ‘destroyed original’…

61 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:05:10am

Pardon my re-post, but it’s relevant:


Conspiracy theories become “contagious” when seemingly respectable authority figures endorse them. The opinions of politicians, authors, preachers or celebrities can have authority for susceptible people. Their endorsement of a conspiracy theory authorizes the believer to accepting the delusion.

The believer, being in on the “truth” now possesses a special secret power which provides a sense of security previously lacking. This need for security explains the reluctance of a believer to give up the conspiracy theory in the face of fact, reason and evidence. The believer initially felt powerless and insecure. The conspiracy theory explained the danger in a way which made the believer feel powerful and secure. Any fact which contradicts the conspiracy theory is therefore seen as a direct and dangerous threat to the psyche of the believer. This is how contrary evidence is perceived as further proof of the conspiracy.

To insist upon the veracity of contrary factual evidence will elicit a fear/threat response in the believer. Point out that fire does indeed melt steel, or that Obama’s Hawaiian birth certificate is a real birth certificate: it does not get the conspiracy theory believer to open his mind and consider other possibilities. Rather, it threatens and enrages them into still greater levels of irrationality.

62 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:05:24am

re: #52 funky chicken

Bill Clinton did, and I’ve gotta give him credit for doing it.

Bill called em out big time.

63 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:05:55am
64 lawhawk  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:05:59am

re: #37 buzzsawmonkey

No, the SooperdooperLooper is at HersheyPark, not Sick Flags.

65 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:06:27am

Actually, to be completely serious, the real problem here is that the American people, or at least the 99.999997% of us that don’t live in a plywood shack in the woods and think the woodpeckers are sending secret messages, need to believe in the validity of the American election process.

This is one attack on that, and it is dangerous for that reason. There are already lots of little chinks in that dam both from the perspective of the left and the right, and we don’t need any more.

66 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:07:08am

re: #64 lawhawk

No, the SooperdooperLooper is at HersheyPark, not Sick Flags.

Apparently it is also at a Gorn holding a stop sign.

67 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:07:15am
68 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:07:33am

re: #45 Cato the Elder

OK, we may have to grant that he was born in Hawai’i. But Hawai’i is the youngest state in the Union. That tells me something is wrong. And if you take a set of dividers and run it from Hawai’i to the mainland, then sweep northwards in an arc, you’ll see that this so-called “state” is almost as close to Russian as it is to US!

Something’s definitely going on here, and thank God for the brave birthers who are willing to put their reputations and sanity on the line to find out what it is!


Gee! I hadn’t thought of that, and I was out there when it became a state! Now I recall all those red hibiscuses all over th’ place! GAAK! Hawaii was brought into the Union so Obama would be a citizen when he was born!

/heh … am I on the right track?

69 sngnsgt  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:07:40am

0bama was born in Hawaii? Again?

70 MikeAlv77  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:08:00am

re: #64 lawhawk

No, the SooperdooperLooper is at HersheyPark, not Sick Flags.

And a great ride it is being only about an hour fro where I live…
Where else can you ride roller coasters and smell chocolate.. at least until they shut down the plant there…

I remember as a kid going to the real factory for a tour and seeing the big vats of chocolate… always wanted to dive in…

71 calcajun  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:08:01am

re: #60 Honorary Yooper

On the other hand is Drudge:

CNN’s Lou Dobbs: Hawaii officials ‘destroyed original’…

Oy vey. What kind of chance does that give us?

72 Drider  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:08:12am

Wasn’t everyone sold on this issue when Soros said that he too saw Obama’s birth thingy?

73 ShanghaiEd  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:08:36am

re: #54 Idle Drifter

Any bets on someone using a dowsing rod to find President Obama’s real birth certificated or using the dowsing rods to communicate with spirits over its authenticity.

Actually, I saw a column about that by Maureen Dowse.

Too early? OK, more coffee is needed. I’ll be back.

74 keithgabryelski  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:09:06am

re: #38 MandyManners

Did any Democrats try to debate Troofers and Code Pink and the like, to show them the error of their ways?

Plenty.

There are troofers that self identify as republican/conservative as well as democrat/liberal.

Let’s just call extremist what they are, and not try to group them with whom they self identify with unless the extremism is part of the given party’s platform.

75 iceweasel  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:09:11am

re: #61 Kenneth

Pardon my re-post, but it’s relevant:

I’d more than pardon you. Every time I read that post of yours I keep thinking it’s even better. :)

Already bookmarked, but I like having the opportunity to upding you for it again!

76 lawhawk  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:09:14am

re: #64 lawhawk

Ugh, here’s the right link. Gorn be damned!

77 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:09:48am

re: #72 Drider

Wasn’t everyone sold on this issue when Soros said that he too saw Obama’s birth thingy?

At a Bilderberg meeting?

78 The Curmudgeon  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:09:57am

I, for one, am not fooled. Obama was hatched in Area 51. It’s just so obvious!

79 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:10:00am

re: #71 calcajun

Oy vey. What kind of chance does that give us?

No idea, but the meme is bipartisan.

80 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:10:07am

re: #61 Kenneth

Pardon my re-post, but it’s relevant:

(sorely tempted to drag out SockPuppy to give that another up-ding)

/but it’s improper behavior

81 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:10:12am

re: #76 lawhawk

Ugh, here’s the right link. Gorn be damned!

Don’t let Gorn hear you say that.

82 Gang of One  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:10:18am

re: #30 CIA Reject

Doesn’t anybody understand that the complete lack of any credible evidence is PROOF POSITIVE that THE CONSPIRACY IS WORKING?!

///

And any evidence debunking the conspiracy is … part of the conspiracy!!!11!

83 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:10:47am

Ok, fine, I will stop contesting the birth certificate issue. He was certainly born in the United States, he is a United States citizen and this issue is close, solved and we birthers have been proven wrong.

But wasn’t his father a space alien?

84 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:10:51am
85 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:11:03am

re: #25 lawhawk

The National Review also posted a lengthy statement slamming the Nirthers.

Good. With both FoxNews and NR calling the Nirthers kooks, maybe they can finally be expelled from the conservative movement. That is a thing I wish for devoutly. And now I must get to work. BBT

86 Kragar  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:11:30am

re: #84 buzzsawmonkey

Those Bilderberg meetings are great—you get to build your own burger at the lunch buffet!

So its like Fuddruckers?

87 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:11:37am

re: #84 buzzsawmonkey

Those Bilderberg meetings are great—you get to build your own burger at the lunch buffet!

Extra bacon, please.

88 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:12:02am

“…contrary evidence is perceived as further proof of the conspiracy”


“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai’i State Department of Health verifying Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago…”

Whoa, so they got to her too! This proves it!

89 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:12:02am

It seems that Obama Derangement Syndrome is now in full bloom.

90 lobo91  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:12:11am

re: #87 Ward Cleaver

Extra bacon, please.

And green chile.

91 JustABill  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:12:24am

re: #54 Idle Drifter

Any bets on someone using a dowsing rod to find President Obama’s real birth certificated or using the dowsing rods to communicate with spirits over its authenticity.

Has anyone checked the First Ladies Book room. I think the birth certificate is right next to the Whitewater billing records./

92 MikeAlv77  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:12:34am

re: #84 buzzsawmonkey

Those Bilderberg meetings are great—you get to build your own burger at the lunch buffet!

I thought they were like the build-a-bear places in the mall…

Ya know, Build-a-Burger might be a good franchise to create. Use it to take over the world…

BWAHHH!!! The world will be ours now that our alien-birthed president is in…

93 ShanghaiEd  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:12:41am

re: #83 Walter L. Newton

Ok, fine, I will stop contesting the birth certificate issue. He was certainly born in the United States, he is a United States citizen and this issue is close, solved and we birthers have been proven wrong.

But wasn’t his father a space alien?

Yes, but he was a legal alien.

94 quiet man  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:12:48am

re: #89 Ringo the Gringo

Yes. it is..but then, ours has a real cause to be.

96 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:14:10am

re: #95 Neo_

heh.

97 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:14:22am
98 calcajun  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:14:31am

re: #79 Honorary Yooper

Which is further proof of a cover-up!//

99 quiet man  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:14:48am

That Obamas birth cert is real is about the only thing said about him I believe is true

100 Dianna  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:14:53am

re: #89 Ringo the Gringo

It seems that Obama Derangement Syndrome is now in full bloom.

Big surprise there.

101 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:15:11am

re: #95 Neo_

Whoever did that has a superb sense of humor!

102 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:15:16am
103 albusteve  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:15:17am

re: #89 Ringo the Gringo

It seems that Obama Derangement Syndrome is now in full bloom.

not hardly…just wait, people are starting to catch on to his health bill

104 MikeAlv77  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:15:19am

re: #99 quiet man

That Obamas birth cert is real is about the only thing said about him I believe is true

He also said he would “spread the wealth”.. I believe him when he said that.

105 Buster  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:15:50am

re: #1 buzzsawmonkey

But is Hawaii a real state?

Good point! Hawaii is not a “Native born land mass”. Hawaii is an island not part of the native Pangaea super-continent The “state” trust itself up from the ocean floor just a short time ago, relative to “native” land masses like North America and Europe. In this respect Hawaii is like an illegal alien. How can anyone born there be a true citizen of the US, or even the Earth for that mater!

106 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:15:52am
107 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:16:12am
108 zombie  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:16:12am

He was born in Hawaii.

Of that there is no doubt.

And I’m quite sure that Chiyome Fukino has seen and verified Obama’s original birth certificate. She’s not lying.

But this does bring up a question that has still not been resolved. The birthers ask it as a rhetorical question, but let’s ask it for real:

Why hasn’t Obama authorized that a photograph or a verified copy of his original birth certificate be released to the public?

Now, the birthers ask this question simply to provide the “obvious” answer: Because it doesn’t exist!

Which of course is just a conspiracy theory with no evidence to back it up.

However, the anti-birthers just as often give their answer: He won’t release it because by withholding it he’s cleverly allowing the birther movement to discredit itself and as a result the far right wing looks like a bunch of crazies.

But there’s no evidence for this assertion either. I don’t think Obama needs to play juvenile “Gotcha!” games to discredit the far right. He’s already been elected, and as far as the Democrats are concerned, the far right are already completely irrelevant.

So I think that there must be some other reason.

It not that it doesn’t exist.
It’s not that Obama is simply trying to “drive his opponents crazy” with frustration.

My only conclusion is: There’s something else on that certificate which would be embarrassing to him, and which he doesn’t want the country to see. But what?

We already know that he has an Islamic name. That wouldn’t be an embarrassment — it’s already a known fact.

We already know that his mother was still a minor. Not embarrassing.

So what else is left? I can only see two possibilities:

a. That it lists his mother as being single, whereas Obama has always claimed she and his father were married at the time.

OR

b. It lists his “race” as being something other than “negro” (or whatever terminology they used in Hawaii at the time).

I think option “a” is very unlikely because in Obama’s view, being the child of a single mother wouldn’t be something to hide — it would be something to brag about. More evidence that he lifted himself up out of poverty and deprivation to the White House.

Therefore, I have a strong suspicion that the answer is “b”: that he is listed as being “caucasian” or “white” (or whatever terminology they used in Hawaii at the time). Which would completely undermine his entire constructed “life story” about which he wrote two books and on which he has based his entire political career.

Thoughts?

109 calcajun  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:16:22am
110 Gang of One  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:16:25am

re: #86 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So its like Fuddruckers?

More like Hooters.

111 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:16:31am

Many “conservatives” have now gone as batshit crazy as the moonbats of the previous eight years…only the conservatives got there quicker.

Here’s a video I filmed of a Birth certificate kook yelling at passing traffic at an intersection not far from my home in Los Angeles:

Not a pretty sight.

112 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:16:36am

re: #106 Kenneth

Ah, but does it throb?

Charles?

/heh

113 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:16:36am

re: #68 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Gee! I hadn’t thought of that, and I was out there when it became a state! Now I recall all those red hibiscuses all over th’ place! GAAK! Hawaii was brought into the Union so Obama would be a citizen when he was born!

/heh … am I on the right track?

Yes, grasshopper. But the conspiracy runs much, much deeper. When you are ready I shall tell you more. For now, know this: it involves time-travel and aliens. And Elvis. And the recent “death” of Michael Jackson.

114 lawhawk  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:17:24am

re: #95 Neo_

Here is proof that President Obama was not born in the United States.

Did they have Microsoft Word and kerning back in the day? ///

Funny stuff…

115 Gang of One  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:17:51am

re: #93 ShanghaiEd

Yes, but he was a legal alien.

Yup. Came in through that Czar Gate.

116 Dianna  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:17:58am

re: #108 zombie

I really, really don’t care. The certificate of live birth contains all the same information.

I’m just tired of this.

117 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:18:20am

re: #111 Ringo the Gringo

Spooky.

118 calcajun  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:18:45am

re: #86 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So its like Fuddruckers?

Only with better table cloths— and you don’t have to eat with the lower orders, if you know what I mean.//

119 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:18:51am
120 zombie  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:19:17am
121 albusteve  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:19:18am

re: #116 Dianna

I really, really don’t care. The certificate of live birth contains all the same information.

I’m just tired of this.

I am too, but it’s an opportunity to write long posts and recycle the old jokes again

122 Idle Drifter  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:19:23am

re: #95 Neo_

Here is proof that President Obama was not born in the United States.

Two swipes at conspiracy nuts in the same stroke! ROFLMAO!

123 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:19:34am

re: #108 zombie

Neither possibilities have much significance. I’m going with the rope-a-dope explanation. The more the GOP talks about this the stupider they look. Why stop a good thing?

124 lawhawk  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:20:00am

re: #108 zombie

Occam’s Razor time. Both are plausible, but as to why Obama wouldn’t authorize a release could be just as much due to Obama’s vindictiveness. We’ve already seen it with “The Won” crap. Why wouldn’t he use this to rub it in to the right and everyone else. Keep everyone frothing mad over this sideshow while he continues pushing forward with his agenda.

125 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:20:01am

OT - for any Simpsons fans here:

[Link: www.washingtoncitypaper.com…]

126 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:20:22am

re: #108 zombie

Good analysis. Very possible.

And very plausible based upon Obama’s psyche.

127 FrogMarch  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:20:34am

re: #111 Ringo the Gringo

Many “conservatives” have now gone as batshit crazy as the moonbats of the previous eight years…only the conservatives got there quicker.

Here’s a video I filmed of a Birth certificate kook yelling at passing traffic at an intersection not far from my home in Los Angeles:

Not a pretty sight.

I can see Andrew Sullivan out there - yelling the same thing about Trig’s real mother. “Come on Palin - show us the real hospital records”

128 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:20:37am

re: #70 MikeAlv77

And a great ride it is being only about an hour fro where I live…
Where else can you ride roller coasters and smell chocolate.. at least until they shut down the plant there…

I remember as a kid going to the real factory for a tour and seeing the big vats of chocolate… always wanted to dive in...


You would have been something on the tour of Wonka’s candy factory.

129 Gearhead  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:21:16am

Well, folks, here’s one Republican who is glad they’ve finally stopped beating that poor old dead horse.

On to real issues, like the Botox tax.

130 MikeAlv77  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:21:18am

re: #123 Kenneth

Neither possibilities have much significance. I’m going with the rope-a-dope explanation. The more the GOP talks about this the stupider they look. Why stop a good thing?

Personally I think the birth cert is something of “the shiny object” for him. The real thing I would like to see are his grades from school. If he was so great, then lets see the transcript and all those articles he published as president of the law review.

131 Charpete67  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:21:43am

re: #108 zombie

isn’t the same info on both doc’s. I too have no doubt he was born here and believe that if it could be proven, Hillary would have found it out.

I would be curious to see both to see if there is something embarrassing. I would also like to see his college transcripts. Maybe with both documents we could prove he was dumb and white…MSM would be devastated.

132 JarHeadLifer  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:21:48am

re: #44 MikeAlv77

OH NO!!! The birthers will use that as reason to think CNN let slip the real conspiracy..

I think that’s unfortunately right. To be clear, I’m in no way a “birther”. But, I didn’t come to that conclusion based on any of the “birth certificate” claims that have been made either by the believers or the Obama camp. For me, it’s the contemporary birth announcements that would be impossible to fake that remove all doubt about Obama’s birth place.

However, I do believe that there’s something(s) on that original document that Obama doesn’t want getting out. Also, I think it’s strange how other historical documents he hasn’t released about himself and the deafening silence of the media about that lack of candor and transparency. For whatever reason, we no less about Obama’s formative years than we do about any other presidential candidate in the last 50 years, except for the things that Obama claims to be true in his two autobiographies. If news organizations can send teams of journalists to Wassilla, AK to dig through Palin’s trash, I think a demand to see Obama’s college transcripts wouldn’t have been too difficult to muster. I think it’s fog that obscures Obama’s past that drives many of these crazy birther nuts.

133 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:21:55am

re: #108 zombie

That’s plausible. If Dunham was listed as unmarried, then it follows that he might have classified as “white”, too. It’s just a thought.

But then, it could be that 0bama likes keeping the nirther movement alive, just to keep the opposition in disarray.

134 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:22:15am

re: #108 zombie

[…] Therefore, I have a strong suspicion that the answer is “b”: that he is listed as being “caucasian” or “white” (or whatever terminology they used in Hawaii at the time). Which would completely undermine his entire constructed “life story” about which he wrote two books and on which he has based his entire political career.

Thoughts?

I think you’re grasping at hypothetical straws.

He hasn’t released the “vault” certificate because he doesn’t have to. Sticking a finger in the eyes of the nuts is just icing on the cake.

135 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:22:23am
136 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:22:39am

re: #95 Neo_

Here is proof that President Obama was not born in the United States.

I just felt the Nirth move under my feet.

Spectacular.

137 Dianna  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:22:59am

re: #121 albusteve

I am too, but it’s an opportunity to write long posts and recycle the old jokes again

I see!

138 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:23:14am

re: #111 Ringo the Gringo

heh … like the quote which Kenneth posted up-thread says … she’s got herself a sense of importance and power.

Pathetic.

139 JustABill  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:23:43am

re: #108 zombie

I had speculated something similar on a nirther thread some months ago. I thought it might list his religion as Muslim/Islam. Took a week for my karma to recover.

140 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:24:28am

re: #130 MikeAlv77

Exactly!

141 quiet man  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:24:34am

re: #124 lawhawk
Why should he bother?? Obama base doesn’t care about this, and He has other past items locked away that might then have to come out.

142 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:24:51am

re: #115 Gang of One

Yup. Came in through that Czar Gate.

That explains it. Obama is a Go’auld, trying to destroy our civilization so the System Lords can enslave us before we destroy them.
/do I need to?

143 Randall Gross  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:25:37am

The breaking news addendum is hilarious, I wonder how many nirthers will bite the bait and run with it?

144 Gearhead  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:25:51am
145 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:26:03am

Media sites and bloggers who promote Nirtherism should be shunned and made to pay a price for spreading this crap.

146 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:26:07am

re: #139 JustABill

I had speculated something similar on a nirther thread some months ago. I thought it might list his religion as Muslim/Islam. Took a week for my karma to recover.

Is “religion” even listed on birth certificates? It isn’t on mine.

147 theheat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:26:11am

I recognize some pandering idiots from the Nirther Nine (Reps. Marsha Blackburn [R-Tenn.], Dan Burton [R-Ind.], John Campbell [R-Calif.] John Carter [R-Tex.], John Culberson [R-Tex.], Robert Goodlatte [R-Va.], Kenny Marchant [R-Tex.], Randy Neugebauer [R-Tex.]and Rep. Ted Poe [R-Tex.]) . No surprises there. Specifically, Texas had an outstanding showing. Add this to the creationist crap they’re pushing in Texas, and I imagine the non-idiots in Texas are embarrassed to death.

148 MikeAlv77  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:26:15am

re: #142 Kosh’s Shadow

That explains it. Obama is a Go’auld, trying to destroy our civilization so the System Lords can enslave us before we destroy them.
/do I need to?

Why the sarcasm… This makes more sense than the birth cert nonsense…

149 FrogMarch  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:26:19am

re: #108 zombie

Thoughts? Well anything is possible. The thing is - does any of it matter? I do not think so. Barack is an adult now and he was born here. Obsessing over his birth certificate and insisting we must all see it makes the right look like Andrew Sullivan. His obsession and insistence that Palin was not the real mother of her baby ruined his credibility. Enough already!

150 Dianna  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:26:38am

re: #139 JustABill

I had speculated something similar on a nirther thread some months ago. I thought it might list his religion as Muslim/Islam. Took a week for my karma to recover.

Does your birth certificate list your religion? Mine doesn’t. California, 1963.

151 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:26:38am

re: #119 buzzsawmonkey

Interesting speculation. I can’t see that that would harm Obama, though—so many people already seem to regard him as haole.

verrry subtle!

/:D … makes my upper okole wanna “pukea”

152 Dianna  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:27:01am

re: #145 Charles

Media sites and bloggers who promote Nirtherism should be shunned and made to pay a price for spreading this crap.

Agreed.

Is there a list?

153 theheat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:27:04am

re: #145 Charles

Like frivolous law suits.

154 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:27:07am

re: #133 Ward Cleaver

…it could be that 0bama likes keeping the nirther movement alive, just to keep the opposition in disarray.

I really think that’s the truth of it. You don’t have to be a protege of Saul Alinsky (which Barack Obama is) or even a student of Machiavelli to know that when your opponents are making fools of themselves, you let them.

155 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:27:11am

re: #135 taxfreekiller

Justice Sotomayor will soon vote with the other mediocre Justices on the U.S. Mediocre Court.

If it really was a “Supreme” Court, Diana Ross would be Chief Justice.

156 Kragar  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:27:18am

re: #142 Kosh’s Shadow

That explains it. Obama is a Go’auld, trying to destroy our civilization so the System Lords can enslave us before we destroy them.
/do I need to?

Wouldn’t that mean Gibbs is First Prime? I just can’t see that.

157 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:27:18am

re: #108 zombie

And why would he care, why would that matter. It’s evident that his black genes dominate, he publicly admits to his mixed parents, and he has gone through life with that knowledge.

I’m not sure why it would make any difference.

158 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:27:49am

re: #151 pre-Boomer Marine brat

verrry subtle!

/:D … makes my upper okole wanna “pukea”

PIMF — DAMMIT, the words don’t work!

159 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:28:08am

re: #145 Charles

Media sites and bloggers who promote Nirtherism should be shunned and made to pay a price for spreading this crap.

“Pay a price?” Clarify?

160 ShanghaiEd  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:28:11am

re: #130 MikeAlv77

Personally I think the birth cert is something of “the shiny object” for him. The real thing I would like to see are his grades from school. If he was so great, then lets see the transcript and all those articles he published as president of the law review.

Mike: At the risk of repeating myself…

From the Office of Double Standards (ODS), Rule #1:

1. Requesting information about a Democratic officeholder is natural curiosity on the part of an engaged citizenry.

Sample dialog: “The guy could put a stop to all this, today, by just showing us the stuff. What does he have to hide? Where there’s smoke, etc…”

2. Requesting information about a GOP officeholder is “a fishing expedition,” “a witch hunt,” or both.

Sample dialog: “Admit it, all you’re wanting to do is dig up dirt to make the guy look bad. It’s just a distraction from all the problems we have. Jeez, Louise, dude, man up and get over it. The guy won, and you need to suck it up and get a life.”

3. Repeat as necessary.

161 Gang of One  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:28:14am

re: #142 Kosh’s Shadow

That explains it. Obama is a Go’auld, trying to destroy our civilization so the System Lords can enslave us before we destroy them.
/do I need to?

No, no, no. He’s a Tok’ra gone rogue, I tells ya.

162 midwestgak  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:28:31am

re: #108 zombie

Thoughts?

Yesterday I reread my own birth certificate. I was reminded that my mother was 33 when I was born. Other than that, no surprises. Nothing untrue.

I produced a copy of it to my last employer. Nothing to hid. Citizenship proven. Got the job.

I agree with your b). Something unsavory may be on his bc. What might that be? Don’t have a clue.

163 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:28:37am

re: #76 lawhawk

Ugh, here’s the right link. Gorn be damned!

An Anton Schwarzkopf design. He did some great coasters that are still popular decades after being built.

164 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:28:55am

re: #159 Walter L. Newton

“Pay a price?” Clarify?

Pay a price … in loss of credibility.

165 zombie  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:29:22am

Hmmm, everybody still seems to be on board with the “He’s withholding it as a clever political strategy to ‘give the crazies more rope with which to hang themselves’ ” thesis.

But the more I think about it, the less convinced I am of that possibility. I admit it’s possible, but it still seems like a campaign strategy, not a governance policy.

Purposely dangling the sealed birth certificate in front of his opponents’ noses is so 2008.

Another option which I haven’t mentioned is that he simply doesn’t care — the whole nirther thing is far beneath his notice. He would more like brush away a mosquito than respond to nirther demands one way or the other. it may not be an intentional strategy — but rather an accidental strategy while he’s off doing more important things like nationalizing the economy.

166 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:30:20am

My birth certificate says that when I was born I was so ugly the doctor slapped my parents.

167 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:30:22am

I bet Obama has a Hawaiian Passport!!!

168 subsailor68  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:30:43am

It would appear that it became necessary to back-date Hawaii’s entrance into the U.S to 1959. Originally it was 1962, but when it was learned that Barack Obama had been born in 1961 chaos erupted. Knowing that Obama would someday run as the first black presidential candidate, state officials held a series of secret meetings with representatives of the State Department and the much lesser known Department of Fixing Fuckups. All official documents regarding Hawaii’s entrance were emended secretly, and all other evidence of the original 1962 date obliterated. All appeared to go smoothly, until October of 2008, when a lone driver’s license receipt from the Hawaii Department of Motor Vehicles, containing the original date, was unearthed. In a panic, the Hawaii Department of Holy Crap sent a crack team of undercover agents to detain Mrs. Patsy Pimalao, 89, who, it should be noted, also still had her original “Hawaii - Proud State since 1962” vanity plates on her 1963 Dodge. The team retrieved the smoking gun receipt, which was then destroyed by stuffing it into a pig being roasted for the annual department picnic. They also removed the vanity plates which are now rumored to be nailed to the wall of a barn somewhere in western Pennsylvania. Mrs. Pimalao has not been seen or heard from since.

Phew, there! That ought to give the conspiracy nuts something new to go crazy over.

;-)

169 LionOfDixon  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:31:00am

What I really want to see is Lindsay Graham’s birth certificate to see if he really is a man…

170 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:31:02am
171 J.S.  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:31:03am

re: #145 Charles

CNN’s “Reliable Sources” fellow suggested that it’s unethical for MSM to continue with this..(I agree).

172 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:31:14am
173 Gang of One  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:31:18am

re: #156 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wouldn’t that mean Gibbs is First Prime? I just can’t see that.

No, First Prime is Rahm Emanuel. Gibbs is a mere Jaf’a host.

174 theheat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:31:29am

re: #165 zombie

It would be like worrying about returning phone calls from a stalker girlfriend/boyfriend you dumped. Not high on the list of priorities, and why even get sucked into it?

175 zombie  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:31:47am

re: #149 FrogMarch

Thoughts? Well anything is possible. The thing is - does any of it matter? I do not think so. Barack is an adult now and he was born here. Obsessing over his birth certificate and insisting we must all see it makes the right look like Andrew Sullivan. His obsession and insistence that Palin was not the real mother of her baby ruined his credibility. Enough already!

I agree! I’m not the one raising this topic — it’s of no interest to me personally. I’m only talking about it because it is the pre-existing topic of conversation.

176 FrogMarch  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:32:04am

Here’s something to ponder: John McCain was born in Panama. If McCain had won the election, would the left be going nuts over that?

177 dwells38  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:32:07am

re: #108 zombie

Maybe that his religion is listed as Muslim? And the Secret Service would be afraid that this would make security harder since according to Sharia law he would be an apostate who has forfeited his life.

It also could make it more difficult for him to deal with Islamic countries and their leaders in general. I’m no expert but there may be other bizarre rules of what they can and can’t do (such as meet, discuss or eat together) with a known apostate. I don’t think they even have to honor agreements with infidels much less apostates under Islamic law.

178 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:32:09am

re: #147 theheat

I recognize some pandering idiots from the Nirther Nine (Reps. Marsha Blackburn [R-Tenn.], Dan Burton [R-Ind.], John Campbell [R-Calif.] John Carter [R-Tex.], John Culberson [R-Tex.], Robert Goodlatte [R-Va.], Kenny Marchant [R-Tex.], Randy Neugebauer [R-Tex.]and Rep. Ted Poe [R-Tex.]) . No surprises there. Specifically, Texas had an outstanding showing. Add this to the creationist crap they’re pushing in Texas, and I imagine the non-idiots in Texas are embarrassed to death.

I’m a Texan, and I’m disappointed to see Texans on there. The strangest one to me though, is John Campbell. He’s frequently on with Hugh Hewitt, and he seems to be a level-headed guy. Hugh has made fun of the nirthers (he even uses the term “nirther”), so maybe he can talk some sense into Campbell.

179 lawhawk  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:32:15am

re: #165 zombie

You discount the fact that on so many other issues, like health care, Obama is continuing to act as campaigner in chief, and not commander in chief.

He doesn’t know how to act any differently. This isn’t like any other job he’s ever held, so he’s going to revert back to the tried and true.

180 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:32:18am

re: #165 zombie

Another option which I haven’t mentioned is that he simply doesn’t care — the whole nirther thing is far beneath his notice. He would more like brush away a mosquito than respond to nirther demands one way or the other. […]

Now that I can see. He’s President, conspiracy theories go with the job. That fly ain’t fat enough to swat.

re: #167 Mad Al-Jaffee

I bet Obama has a Hawaiian Passport!!!

How about a nice Hawaiian Punch?

181 quiet man  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:32:24am

re: #171 J.S.
Unethincal since it is a liberal being scrutinized.

182 Kragar  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:32:25am

re: #161 Gang of One

No, no, no. He’s a Tok’ra gone rogue, I tells ya.

His symbiote was found in a canopic jar in Kenya and was transported to Hawaii to find a host suitable for the old Kenyan Prince con.

183 Pianobuff  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:32:37am

re: #124 lawhawk

Occam’s Razor time. Both are plausible, but as to why Obama wouldn’t authorize a release could be just as much due to Obama’s vindictiveness. We’ve already seen it with “The Won” crap. Why wouldn’t he use this to rub it in to the right and everyone else. Keep everyone frothing mad over this sideshow while he continues pushing forward with his agenda.

Is it known if the Obama camp has spent money “fighting” the legal side of this? If he has, it could well validate that he thinks it’s a winner to keep the issue out ther.

184 Charpete67  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:32:46am

***Nirther disclaimer…I’m not one…please don’t ding me***

can you imagine if it said he was Caucasian or white? Think about how they talk about race and then how it would change.

I’m not a geneticist, but wouldn’t it be possible for a person to be born to a white mother and black father and have white skin?

185 Dianna  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:33:06am

re: #162 midwestgak

Thoughts?

Yesterday I reread my own birth certificate. I was reminded that my mother was 33 when I was born. Other than that, no surprises. Nothing untrue.

I produced a copy of it to my last employer. Nothing to hid. Citizenship proven. Got the job.

I agree with your b). Something unsavory may be on his bc. What might that be? Don’t have a clue.

How could there be something “unsavory” on a freakin’ birth certificate? His little baby footprint has marks that read “I want to be president!”?

Parents are listed, their status is not defined. We already know that Barack Obama Sr. was already married in Kenya, so his marriage to Sidney Ann Dunham was bigamous, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t “married” so far as she knew.

Get over it. There’s nothing “unsavory” on anybody’s birth certificate!

186 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:33:10am

re: #176 FrogMarch

Here’s something to ponder: John McCain was born in Panama. If McCain had won the election, would the left be going nuts over that?

Doubtless.

187 zombie  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:33:21am

re: #157 Walter L. Newton

And why would he care, why would that matter. It’s evident that his black genes dominate, he publicly admits to his mixed parents, and he has gone through life with that knowledge.

I’m not sure why it would make any difference.

I agree as well — it doesn’t matter to me — but it’s the only thing I can imagine which Obama himself might consider “embarrassing” enough that he doesn’t want anyone else to see it.

188 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:33:25am

re: #180 Cato the Elder

How about a nice Hawaiian Punch?

I’d rather have some Tang.

189 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:33:36am

re: #176 FrogMarch

Here’s something to ponder: John McCain was born in Panama. If McCain had won the election, would the left be going nuts over that?

Probably not, but they’d certainly be going nuts over something.

190 calcajun  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:33:43am

re: #164 Charles

Assumes they have any to begin with.

191 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:34:25am

re: #180 Cato the Elder

How about a nice Hawaiian Punch?

Hey that’s good. Obama should use it.
/

192 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:34:26am

re: #156 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wouldn’t that mean Gibbs is First Prime? I just can’t see that.

The real First Prime is on one of their ships, waiting to attack. Gibbs is just a tool, destroying our military from the inside. You see, the F-22 is hard for the Go’auld to shoot down; that’s the real reason it was canceled.
///

193 SixDegrees  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:35:11am

re: #145 Charles

Media sites and bloggers who promote Nirtherism should be shunned and made to pay a price for spreading this crap.

Shunning is the correct response. Those who grasp on to these theories do so mostly for the attention it brings them. Even if it’s negative attention, it’s still attention; suddenly, their presence in the world is noticed. That’s why so many of them rapidly dive off the deep end at engage in the most anti-social sorts of behavior imaginable - disrupting public meetings, buttonholing passerby while they harangue them, yelling at passing cars…the list goes on, but all such behavior increases the attention directed their way.

Any sort of acknowledgment, even a fact-based refutation, only serves to reinforce their behavior and their support of their pet theory, because any sort of response is giving them exactly what they want. It isn’t about the theory they’re peddling - it’s all about them, and the satisfaction they derive from being the center of attention, even if only briefly.

Ignoring them will result in a short-lived increase in activity, as they escalate their behavior trying to generate more responses. Once it becomes clear that no one is paying attention to them anymore, they’ll find some other avenue to attract it. It is extremely common for someone who endorses one conspiracy theory to quickly accept several more. It gives them an escape route; when those nearby start blowing them off, they can shift to an entirely different stage setting and perform the same act.

In the end, though, they’ll simply wander off if people stop paying attention to their ravings.

194 debutaunt  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:35:38am

re: #83 Walter L. Newton

Ok, fine, I will stop contesting the birth certificate issue. He was certainly born in the United States, he is a United States citizen and this issue is close, solved and we birthers have been proven wrong.

But wasn’t his father a space alien?

Yes, from a planet of highly organized aliens who liked free stuff.

195 doppelganglander  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:35:45am

re: #108 zombie

Most birth certificates AFAIK do not list the marital status of the parents. The mother is always listed by her maiden name, so that wouldn’t help you determine if they were married, either. For comparison purpose, I just looked at my daughters’ birth certificates. The older one has a Certificate of Birth of a U.S. Citizen Abroad. It doesn’t even mention the parents’ names. The younger one, born in the U.S., lists me by my maiden name and there is no box for marital status. These are from 1987 and 1992, respectively. My husband’s and my certificates, from the early 1960s, are similar to my younger daughter’s (same state). Of course, things may have been done differently in Hawaii in 1961.

196 theheat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:35:47am

re: #184 Charpete67

Actually, yes it is. I had a friend whiter than me, and he was half black. Had many black facial features, but light skinned with freckles and dark blond hair.

197 Pianobuff  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:35:53am

re: #176 FrogMarch

Here’s something to ponder: John McCain was born in Panama. If McCain had won the election, would the left be going nuts over that?

The McCain meme was that he was brainwashed by the commies while a POW and had a sekret mission (ala Manchurian candidate) to destroy the US.

198 Dianna  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:36:06am

re: #177 dwells38

We repeat, for possible penetration: Find me a birth certificate that lists religion. Go on. Find me an American birth certificate since 1960 that lists religion.

Guess what?

You won’t.

199 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:36:06am

Not all Nirthers are are on the right, more than a few are disgruntled Hillary supporters.

200 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:36:39am

re: #177 dwells38

Maybe that his religion is listed as Muslim?

Is this the First Corollary to the Nirth Certifikit Theory?

201 doppelganglander  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:36:45am

re: #150 Dianna

Does your birth certificate list your religion? Mine doesn’t. California, 1963.

Nor does mine.

202 FrogMarch  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:36:49am

re: #175 zombie

I agree! I’m not the one raising this topic — it’s of no interest to me personally. I’m only talking about it because it is the pre-existing topic of conversation.

Oh I know. You were just asking for thoughts - and those were mine. I wasn’t in any way accusing you of obsessing. You brought up some possible angles - and they are solid possibilities. My point is that folks should just drop it. I don’t care if his birth certificate says his mother was a tarantula from the planet zolon.

203 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:37:08am

re: #166 experiencedtraveller

When I was born, they wrote a song about it.Youtube Video>

>
204 Dianna  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:37:27am

re: #178 Ward Cleaver

I’m a Texan, and I’m disappointed to see Texans on there. The strangest one to me though, is John Campbell. He’s frequently on with Hugh Hewitt, and he seems to be a level-headed guy. Hugh has made fun of the nirthers (he even uses the term “nirther”), so maybe he can talk some sense into Campbell.

To complicate the matter, Tom Campbell is running for governor of California. This will manage to turn a lot of people off him, confusion over names.

205 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:37:30am

I have a copy of my original birth certificate. It does not list religion.

206 Pianobuff  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:37:34am

re: #199 Ringo the Gringo

Not all Nirthers are are on the right, more than a few are disgruntled Hillary supporters.

The PUMAs had some of that going around too, as well as the girlfriend in the Grand Caymans thingie.

207 Gang of One  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:37:50am

re: #182 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

His symbiote was found in a canopic jar in Kenya and was transported to Hawaii to find a host suitable for the old Kenyan Prince con.

Maybe he and some others dialed the same address during a solar flare, traveled back in time with a doctored BC …

/I have way too much time on my hands.

208 Dianna  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:38:03am

re: #200 Charles

Is this the First Corollary to the Nirth Certifikit Theory?

*Sigh*

Yep. And it doesn’t matter how often we apply reason to the matter.

209 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:38:06am

re: #203 Noam Sayin’

Gah! IE SUCKS

210 dwells38  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:39:05am

re: #198 Dianna

OK fine. I wasn’t sure. I thought I’d read some reference to that in the past.

211 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:39:52am

re: #172 buzzsawmonkey

You may have noticed that Obama’s “governance strategy” closely resembles his campaign strategy, what with the reliance on townhall meetings and the like.

In other words, responding to this in campaign mode would be of a piece with his other actions in office.

Good point too. Campaigning is what he knows best, is probably most comfortable with.

212 Rexatosis  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:39:59am

To all the nirthers I say “President Joe Biden, you gotta be kinding me.” Seriously do any of these twits actually think about the practical implications of their “attempts to unwind the conspiracy.” This is the same for the “Impeach Bush” crowd of the last eight years, did they really want the “Dark Lord” Dick Cheney as President.

Re # 108 Zombie

I vote for Pres. Obama letting Rep. Dan Burton and the other nirther twits chasing their own tails and just offending anyone with a brain cell, it worked for Pres. Clinton.

213 shortshrift  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:40:17am

re: #108 zombie

Enjoyed this speculation, but:
The mother’s choice of race (to match her own) would not be binding on the child. He could explain that he chose to self-identity as black, and his choice is the only one that matters.
Might the birth certificate have had an “other” option?

There should not be a race question on the birth certificate in any case, in my view.

214 Dianna  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:40:18am

re: #184 Charpete67

Many black babies appear white at birth because the melanin takes time to appear. However, race is a curious issue and wouldn’t be based on “appearance”, but on what the parents said.

In any case, there is only one race: human.

215 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:40:19am

re: #205 Charles

I have a copy of my original birth certificate. It does not list religion.

I suspect some localities list religion and some don’t.

216 Gang of One  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:40:27am

re: #192 Kosh’s Shadow

The real First Prime is on one of their ships, waiting to attack. Gibbs is just a tool, destroying our military from the inside. You see, the F-22 is hard for the Go’auld to shoot down; that’s the real reason it was canceled.
///

Wrong. The F-22 was developed from technology lifted from a captured Death Glider. That’s why O put the kibosh on it.

217 funky chicken  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:41:37am

re: #197 Pianobuff

The McCain meme was that he was brainwashed by the commies while a POW and had a sekret mission (ala Manchurian candidate) to destroy the US.

That wasn’t a leftie story. The folks who spread that BS around are right wingers and friends of former NH senator Bob Smith and a former nutjob representative nicknamed “Boots” whose column is/was carried by NewsMax, IIRC. Also some creep named Herndon and the Sampley and Kiley bastards.

They’re all right wing, unfortunately.

218 calcajun  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:41:46am

re: #177 dwells38

And maybe it has info on it that is none of our friggin’ business. The only relevant issue is the location of the birth — and that has been established by clear and convincing evidence to most reasonably intelligent people.

Time for the nirthers to go chase after something shiny.

219 zombie  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:41:52am

re: #205 Charles

I have a copy of my original birth certificate. It does not list religion.

Does it list your “race”?

(And what state?)

220 Charpete67  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:42:24am

re: #196 theheat

Actually, yes it is. I had a friend whiter than me, and he was half black. Had many black facial features, but light skinned with freckles and dark blond hair.

…it’s kind of ironic that for me as a big bad conservative, I could care less…and I could care less what it says on his birth certificate, but for the BHO kool aid drinkers, it would be a monumental identity crisis if it said he was white.

221 oh_dude  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:42:30am

All,

I think our next move in light of this new evidence should be to prove that the admission of Hawaii as the 50th state was performed incorrectly and therefore invalid. HAWAII IS NOT PART OF THE U.S. Therefore even if you were born there you are NOT a U.S. citizen and are not eligible to be POTUS.

Who’s with me?!

222 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:42:37am

re: #219 zombie

No, it doesn’t list “race,” either. Not a good idea to say the state publicly.

223 JohnnyReb  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:42:37am

re: #184 Charpete67

***Nirther disclaimer…I’m not one…please don’t ding me***

can you imagine if it said he was Caucasian or white? Think about how they talk about race and then how it would change.

I’m not a geneticist, but wouldn’t it be possible for a person to be born to a white mother and black father and have white skin?

I dont know about Hawaii, but in Ohio in 1957 you only had three choices for “race”; white, negro or other on birth certificates. And I can pretty much guarantee there would have been a huge problem with that birth if it had occurred in some other state than Hawaii or maybe California. There were still big issues with segregation and separate black/white hospitals in most of the country at that time.

224 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:42:51am

re: #219 zombie

Does it list your “race”?

(And what state?)

Aidemydnian?

225 Charpete67  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:43:48am

re: #214 Dianna

Many black babies appear white at birth because the melanin takes time to appear. However, race is a curious issue and wouldn’t be based on “appearance”, but on what the parents said.

In any case, there is only one race: human.

I hope you get my point… I was really just saying, there is only one human race…color can be a genetic crap shoot.

226 doppelganglander  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:44:32am

re: #214 Dianna

Many black babies appear white at birth because the melanin takes time to appear. However, race is a curious issue and wouldn’t be based on “appearance”, but on what the parents said.

In any case, there is only one race: human.

Well said.

Incidentally, my daughter’s birth certificate (1992) does not list race at all. I believe my husband’s does, but I am pretty sure mine doesn’t. (I can’t find the latter two right now.)

227 Dianna  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:44:40am

re: #210 dwells38

OK fine. I wasn’t sure. I thought I’d read some reference to that in the past.

You probably have. Charles called it the “first corollary”, an accurate, pithy summation of the reason you keep reading about it.

228 marge45b  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:45:03am

Love the Memo CYA!

The McCain Birth in Panama was discussed in a senate hearing. It was OK because he was born in a US Navy Hospital on the base in a US Navy base in a US province, to US citizens. On BO I only questioned did he have duel Indonesian citizenship? When he traveled to Pakistan in 1981 what kind of passport did he have? Was there a senate hearing on that? NOT.

229 Dianna  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:45:30am

re: #226 doppelganglander

Well said.

Incidentally, my daughter’s birth certificate (1992) does not list race at all. I believe my husband’s does, but I am pretty sure mine doesn’t. (I can’t find the latter two right now.)

I don’t remember if race is listed on my birth certificate or not.

230 debutaunt  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:45:34am

re: #198 Dianna

We repeat, for possible penetration: Find me a birth certificate that lists religion. Go on. Find me an American birth certificate since 1960 that lists religion.

Guess what?

You won’t.

Ah hah! A non-answer is an answer!

231 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:45:43am

re: #219 zombie

re: #222 Charles

FYI, mine (California, 1943) lists “race” for father and mother, but does not list religion. Neither does it list “race” for myself.

232 zombie  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:45:47am

re: #213 shortshrift

Enjoyed this speculation, but:
The mother’s choice of race (to match her own) would not be binding on the child. He could explain that he chose to self-identity as black, and his choice is the only one that matters.
Might the birth certificate have had an “other” option?

There should not be a race question on the birth certificate in any case, in my view.

re: #214 Dianna

Many black babies appear white at birth because the melanin takes time to appear. However, race is a curious issue and wouldn’t be based on “appearance”, but on what the parents said.

In any case, there is only one race: human.

I’m only discussing this because I think Obama himself would regard it as politically “emabarrasing.” He did after all wrote two books about his “black identity.” He is what is he — makes no difference to me in the the slightest. I’m only talking about Obama’s concern over his political persona, in which he has self-identified as “black.” I could easily see how he (not me) would regard being listed as anything other than black as slightly embarrassing.

233 FrogMarch  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:46:05am

I just dug out my birth certificate. The info on it is pretty dry: Names, dates, doctors, addresses. There is no religion noted or anything about my skin color.

234 J.S.  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:46:27am

re: #181 quiet man

No, i believe, it’s considered unethical because the Media is being used to promulgate false stories (equivalent to spreading false rumors). Some time ago, in Canada, there actually was a law on the books making it a criminal offense to spread “false news.” (it was replaced with Canada’s anti-hate speech legislation).

235 zombie  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:46:55am

re: #222 Charles

No, it doesn’t list “race,” either. Not a good idea to say the state publicly.

Understood.

I haven’t ever seen my birth certificate, so I have no idea what it says.

236 Dianna  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:47:18am

re: #215 unrealizedviewpoint

I suspect some localities list religion and some don’t.

Not that I noticed since about the middle of last century. I found my grandmother’s, and it didn’t list a religion, and that from 1900.

237 Pianobuff  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:47:49am

re: #217 funky chicken

That wasn’t a leftie story. The folks who spread that BS around are right wingers and friends of former NH senator Bob Smith and a former nutjob representative nicknamed “Boots” whose column is/was carried by NewsMax, IIRC. Also some creep named Herndon and the Sampley and Kiley bastards.

They’re all right wing, unfortunately.

The story is lunacy and was carried by the extremes on both sides. Just as the nirther stuff has been. Lunacy is one of the few things that is successfully bi-partisan at the extreme edges.

238 calcajun  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:48:12am

re: #219 zombie

Mine would—being born in Louisiana some decades ago.

But, how is that relevant to the issue at hand? The only issue is the site of the birth.

239 doppelganglander  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:48:13am

re: #229 Dianna

I don’t remember if race is listed on my birth certificate or not.

I was actually surprised it wasn’t. I thought it would be recorded for statistical purposes (e.g. percentage of babies of a certain race in the state). I guess the only source of data for race is the Census.

240 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:48:26am

re: #235 zombie

Understood.

I haven’t ever seen my birth certificate, so I have no idea what it says.

Zombies only have Death Certificates?

241 Charpete67  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:48:35am

I found mine…apparently I am white, but have no religion…otherwise state, time, mom/dad, etc.

242 doppelganglander  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:48:44am

re: #235 zombie

Understood.

I haven’t ever seen my birth certificate, so I have no idea what it says.

How can you be undead if you were never born?

243 JHW  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:49:07am

re: #236 Dianna

I have my grandfather’s from Ontario, 1861, no race, no religion. Pretty much the same information as a modern birth certificate.

244 zombie  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:50:08am

re: #226 doppelganglander

Well said.

Incidentally, my daughter’s birth certificate (1992) does not list race at all. I believe my husband’s does, but I am pretty sure mine doesn’t. (I can’t find the latter two right now.)

re: #229 Dianna

I don’t remember if race is listed on my birth certificate or not.

re: #231 pre-Boomer Marine brat

re: #222 Charles

FYI, mine (California, 1943) lists “race” for father and mother, but does not list religion. Neither does it list “race” for myself.

I think a “race” box was common on most states’ birth certificates up through the ’50s and into the early ’60s, but little by little was phased out across the country starting in the ’60s as race became too sensitive of an issue and as more mixed-race babies became commonplace. I simply don’t know if 1961 Hawaii had a box for race at all.

245 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:50:42am

re: #236 Dianna

Not that I noticed since about the middle of last century. I found my grandmother’s, and it didn’t list a religion, and that from 1900.

Come to think of it, religion probably isn’t listed Most times. The kid’s just been born, and maybe religion hasn’t yet been chosen.

246 debutaunt  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:51:20am

re: #233 FrogMarch

I just dug out my birth certificate. The info on it is pretty dry: Names, dates, doctors, addresses. There is no religion noted or anything about my skin color.

Amphibian, would be my guess.

247 Dianna  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:51:21am

re: #232 zombie

I’m only discussing this because I think Obama himself would regard it as politically “emabarrasing.” He did after all wrote two books about his “black identity.” He is what is he — makes no difference to me in the the slightest. I’m only talking about Obama’s concern over his political persona, in which he has self-identified as “black.” I could easily see how he (not me) would regard being listed as anything other than black as slightly embarrassing.

Oh, honestly. Everyone knows he had a white mother and grandparents, so even that is a non-issue.

248 J.S.  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:52:00am

re: #232 zombie

I have two birth certificates (the short form which is the standard, doesn’t give all that much info); then I had to get the long form (it was for passport/children’s citizenship reasons) — the long form lists both parents names, marital status, race, attending doctor’s name, hospital location, time of birth, etc., etc. doesn’t list religion, though.

249 SixDegrees  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:52:00am

re: #187 zombie

I agree as well — it doesn’t matter to me — but it’s the only thing I can imagine which Obama himself might consider “embarrassing” enough that he doesn’t want anyone else to see it.

This simply shifts attention away from the real problem, a shift the nirthers are happy to accentuate. The real problem is simple: THE NIRTHERS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF THAT 0 IS NOT AN AMERICAN CITIZEN.. Not a scrap. Their entire “case” is built on speculation and innuendo, with absolutely no underlying foundation of fact.

If the nirthers can’t produce evidentiary proof that 0 was born elsewhere, there’s nothing to talk about. There’s a whole pile of actual, reality-based evidence that 0 is a legitimate American citizen - far more evidence than any other citizen would ever be asked to produce, no matter what the reason - and none at all that he was born elsewhere. From the law’s presumption of innocence through the logical fallacy of a demand for a negative proof all the way to a gaping hole where evidence ought to be, there simply isn’t any reason whatsoever to believe this unless you have completely lost your grip on reality and rationality.

And the potential downside of being tarred with this brush are enormous. Over the next two weeks, Congress will be trying to ram a colossal, deeply flawed health care bill through the House; an equally bad cap & trade bill is in the pipeline; serious questions about 0’s rush to pre-judgment in the Gates/Crowley case are beginning to seriously undermine his public support. And many on the Right seem determined to hand their opposition the invaluable tool of allowing them to point their fingers back at our objections, demands and counterproposals and say, “Well, what else would you expect from a bunch of kooks?”

The nirthers crave the spotlight, and the louder and more outrageous their behavior becomes, the more the media is willing to shine it on them. And given the media’s proven biases, it isn’t much of a walk from there to hanging responsibility for such craziness on their favorite target - the Right.

250 dwells38  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:52:49am

re: #205 Charles

Saw a reference on NRO that said some states do show religion. 5th paragraph down.

However I can’t find a list of states that do or do not.

251 SixDegrees  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:53:11am

re: #201 doppelganglander

Nor does mine.

Mine doesn’t, either.

252 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:53:36am

Maybe he’s trying to conceal the fact that he’s actually a woman!

253 zombie  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:53:39am

re: #238 calcajun

Mine would—being born in Louisiana some decades ago.

But, how is that relevant to the issue at hand? The only issue is the site of the birth.

Yes, in Louisiana — home of the 1/64th rule — race would definitely be listed.

As for relevance: We’re discussing this as sort of the “wreckage” of the birther movement. Fully acknowledging that Obama was definitively born in Hawaii and has a Hawaii birth certificate, I’m speculating about the one remaining unanswered question: Why Obama hasn’t released it (granting that it exists).

254 Charpete67  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:53:54am

actually, I just looked at his birth certificate and it shows his father as African and mother as Caucasian…wouldn’t it be impossible to identify him as Caucasian when his father is clearly listed as African?

255 haakondahl  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:54:16am

re: #131 Charpete67

isn’t the same info on both doc’s. I too have no doubt he was born here and believe that if it could be proven, Hillary would have found it out.

I would be curious to see both to see if there is something embarrassing. I would also like to see his college transcripts. Maybe with both documents we could prove he was dumb and white…MSM would be devastated.

Think of the children Supreme Court Justice nominees!

256 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:55:23am

Please disregard my post at #252.

I was momentarily overcome by silliness.

257 Land Shark  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:55:40am

Sadly, given what I’ve seen from these nirthers so far, I don’t expect the latest from the state of Hawaii to convince these bozos. They want to believe what they want to believe, reality and the facts be damned. All they’ve accomplished is to make themselves look and sound like fools. Pathetic.

258 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:56:29am

re: #256 Ringo the Gringo

Please disregard my post at #252.

I was momentarily overcome by silliness.

I laughed and dinged.

259 SixDegrees  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:56:44am

re: #233 FrogMarch

I just dug out my birth certificate. The info on it is pretty dry: Names, dates, doctors, addresses. There is no religion noted or anything about my skin color.

Mine just has the pawprints of the wolves who raised me.

260 zombie  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:56:52am

re: #252 Ringo the Gringo

Maybe he’s trying to conceal the fact that he’s actually a woman!

Bingo!

Or better yet: hermaphroditic!

261 calcajun  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:56:58am

re: #253 zombie

Again, I state that it has info that is probably sensitive and private— like maybe listing another father. But, the central issue has been citizenship and that’s been established. The rest is irrelevant to the discussion.

262 calcajun  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:57:33am

re: #252 Ringo the Gringo

Maybe he’s trying to conceal the fact that he’s actually a woman!

Has anyone seen him shave?

263 FrogMarch  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:57:40am

re: #246 debutaunt

Amphibian, would be my guess.

Oh yes- there it is. I started as a wee tadpole.

264 Charpete67  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:58:11am

re: #262 calcajun

Has anyone seen him shave?

…I saw him throw a baseball…

265 FrogMarch  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:58:36am

re: #254 Charpete67

actually, I just looked at his birth certificate and it shows his father as African and mother as Caucasian…wouldn’t it be impossible to identify him as Caucasian when his father is clearly listed as African?

You looked at it? Where is it? I must see it!

///

266 calcajun  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:58:46am

re: #264 Charpete67

…I saw him throw a baseball…

Not really conclusive evidence— but persuasive.

267 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:59:18am

re: #262 calcajun

Has anyone seen him shave?

He does have a slender frame.

268 Charpete67  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:59:28am

re: #265 FrogMarch

You looked at it? Where is it? I must see it!

///

I can’t tell you…or I would have to kill you…

or, you can just google it…

269 LionOfDixon  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:59:46am

My Birth Certificate does not list race, either. Curiously, it does state that I was born in the backseat of a Greyhound bus, rollin’ down Highway 41.

270 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:00:34am

re: #235 zombie

Understood.

I haven’t ever seen my birth certificate, so I have no idea what it says.

One thing you can be CERTAIN of … it does NOT say “Live Birth” !

/*cackling maniacally, running for cover*

271 keithgabryelski  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:01:50am

re: #150 Dianna

Does your birth certificate list your religion? Mine doesn’t. California, 1963.

Hawaii’s long form does not have the religion of the mother or father on it:

Image of Hawaiian long for birth certificate

272 Bloodnok  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:04:01am

re: #253 zombie

Yes, in Louisiana — home of the 1/64th rule — race would definitely be listed.

As for relevance: We’re discussing this as sort of the “wreckage” of the birther movement. Fully acknowledging that Obama was definitively born in Hawaii and has a Hawaii birth certificate, I’m speculating about the one remaining unanswered question: Why Obama hasn’t released it (granting that it exists).

Even that is giving this issue MUCH more credit than it deserves.

273 shortshrift  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:04:05am

re: #232 zombie

If his associations with the Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers and ACORN, his ignorance of history, his ludicrous domestic policies and his pants-falling-down foreign policies are not embarrassing him politically, I doubt that anything on his birth certificate would…

274 Wendya  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:05:29am

Mine doesn’t list race or religion (Oregon, early 60’s). In the mid 70’s, my family moved to Saudi Arabia and I distinctly remember my parents having to submit our Baptism records as proof of religion before we were issued visas.

275 Charpete67  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:07:10am

re: #273 shortshrift

If his associations with the Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers and ACORN, his ignorance of history, his ludicrous domestic policies and his pants-falling-down foreign policies are not embarrassing him politically, I doubt that anything on his birth certificate would…

…unless the good reverend was the father…

276 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:09:20am

holy shit it’s a bonanza of crazy over there in the comments section.

this should be fun.

277 Land Shark  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:09:50am

re: #256 Ringo the Gringo

Please disregard my post at #252.

I was momentarily overcome by silliness.

Hey, I think you may be on to something! Michelle Obama does look way too butch n’ manly for my taste…

See, you’re not the only one to be overcome by silliness. In fact, it’s my natural state! ;-)

278 sagehen  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:10:41am

re: #223 JohnnyReb

I dont know about Hawaii, but in Ohio in 1957 you only had three choices for “race”; white, negro or other on birth certificates. And I can pretty much guarantee there would have been a huge problem with that birth if it had occurred in some other state than Hawaii or maybe California. There were still big issues with segregation and separate black/white hospitals in most of the country at that time.

Until 1967, interracial marriages were illegal in 11 states. They’d have both been thrown in prison for miscegenation (and because mom was so young, dad might have been charged with statutory rape as well).

279 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:11:51am

re: #271 keithgabryelski

Hawaii’s long form does not have the religion of the mother or father on it:

Image of Hawaiian long for birth certificate

Good find! That debunks the First Corollary of the Nirth Certifikit Theory — that Obama won’t release the “long form” because it reveals he’s a sekrit Moslem.

280 avspatti  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:12:34am

Forget the birth certificate. What I would really love to see are all his records from schools. Seriously, as an educator, I would learn a lot from those. All other candidates, presidents have released their transcripts. Not earthshaking, just curiosity on my part as well as wondering why he is going to so much trouble to conceal them. Seems like a lot of effort over something pretty normal.

281 Charpete67  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:15:18am

re: #279 Charles

Good find! That debunks the First Corllary of the Nirth Certifikit Theory — that Obama won’t release the “long form” because it reveals he’s a sekrit Moslem.

then basically, that leaves 1) he won’t release it because he doesn’t care and 2) it makes republicans look bad to obsess…makes sense to me.

282 keithgabryelski  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:15:18am

re: #280 avspatti

Forget the birth certificate. What I would really love to see are all his records from schools. Seriously, as an educator, I would learn a lot from those. All other candidates, presidents have released their transcripts. Not earthshaking, just curiosity on my part as well as wondering why he is going to so much trouble to conceal them. Seems like a lot of effort over something pretty normal.

This is how it goes. It’s called “moving the goalpost” and isn’t the first time it has been done by birthers on this subject.

283 keithgabryelski  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:16:27am

re: #281 Charpete67

then basically, that leaves 1) he won’t release it because he doesn’t care and 2) it makes republicans look bad to obsess…makes sense to me.

3) there is no normal procedure for him to retrieve the long form birth certificate ([Link: www.factcheck.org…]

284 shortshrift  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:16:30am

Obama won’t release the long form, not because it has something dirty in it, but because there is something dirty on it. A coffee-cup stain and a not very nice doodle in ink.

285 Wendya  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:17:05am

re: #280 avspatti

Forget the birth certificate. What I would really love to see are all his records from schools.

I’d love to see his passport information.

286 dwells38  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:18:07am

re: #279 Charles

My point wasn’t that Obama was a secret Muslim. Merely that he may’ve been listed as Muslim at birth sending a bunch of splodey dopes apoplectic not to mention complicating his official dealings with other Muslims.

This DOES go a long way toward putting it to rest though because unless they changed the long form between Aug 1961 (O’s DOB) and June 62 it appears to be moot.

287 keithgabryelski  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:19:54am

re: #285 Wendya

I’d love to see his passport information.

Last two people to see it were fired:
[Link: www.newser.com…]

Rice Apologizes For Breach of Passport Data; Employees Looked at Files On Obama, Clinton, McCain
Article from: The Washington Post Article date: March 22, 2008 Author: Glenn Kessler - Washington Post Staff Writer

The passport files of all three major presidential candidates were breached by unauthorized searches by four employees, the State Department said yesterday, prompting apologies from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, outrage from the candidates and calls by lawmakers for further probes.

State had announced Thursday night that two contract employees had been fired and a third disciplined for separately examining Sen. Barack Obama’s passport file in January, February and March. No sooner had Rice gotten off the phone yesterday morning after …

conspiracy in 3, 2, 1 …

288 dwells38  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:21:47am

re: #286 dwells38

Should have also added…ie a reason why they might want to hide it now despite that he’s is indeed a US citizen.

289 ShanghaiEd  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:24:58am

re: #280 avspatti

All other candidates, presidents have released their transcripts. Not earthshaking, just curiosity on my part as well as wondering why he is going to so much trouble to conceal them. Seems like a lot of effort over something pretty normal.

Av: Link to that, please?

290 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:25:12am

re: #164 Charles

Pay a price … in loss of credibility.

Like what happened to Dan Rather? Credibility among journalists is a truly debased currency.

291 Syrah  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:39:37am

The Nirthers will only see this as “proof of just how deep the conspiracy goes.”

For the Nirthers, there can never and will never be enough proof.

292 gregb  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:41:28am

Hey! Did they have typewriters like that back then?

Memo to self:

Image: Killian_memos_MSWord_animated.gif

293 arf  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 12:03:04pm

Can someone help me on this?

If for the sake of argument, Obama was born outside the USA to a natural born American mother and a Kenyan father, isn’t he still a natural-born US citizen for the purpose of qualification for the office of President?

I think of children of diplomatic personnel, military dependents that might have been born outside the USA and maybe the base did not have obstetric facilities, the baby was born at a local hospital, US citizens overseas for business purposes, tourists going into early labor, etc.

Maybe I don’t understand the rules.

294 restitutor orbis  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 12:18:49pm

Glad to see the Congress is recognizing Hawaii statehood.
Too bad the actual residents can’t muster the same enthusiasm.

295 Trialdog  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 12:32:12pm

Hopefully this is the end of the birth certificate controversy. The man destroying our country is not a foreign enemy of the United States. He is a domestic enemy of the United States.

296 keithgabryelski  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 12:32:20pm

re: #293 arf

Can someone help me on this?

If for the sake of argument, Obama was born outside the USA to a natural born American mother and a Kenyan father, isn’t he still a natural-born US citizen for the purpose of qualification for the office of President?

I think of children of diplomatic personnel, military dependents that might have been born outside the USA and maybe the base did not have obstetric facilities, the baby was born at a local hospital, US citizens overseas for business purposes, tourists going into early labor, etc.

Maybe I don’t understand the rules.

You nailed it.

But, the conspiracy claims the possibility of a few things to get around that:

In particular in 1961 the rule of citizenship for a baby born outside the united states to one U.S. citizen and one non- U.S. citizen were a little squirrely (the u.s. parent had to have lived on U.S. soil for a certain amount of total time before some birth date. The conspiracy claims President Obama’s mother did not meet these requirements (because she was only 18 when he was born and she had spent some amount of time out side the U.S.).

This theory is tossed out because in the 1980s U.S. law was changed to basically say “one U.S. parent, born anywhere = U.S. citizen”. This law was made retroactive for everyone born after (as i recall) 1950.

297 arf  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 1:02:57pm

Thanks…that has bothered me for some time.

I have a lot of reasons to have disdain for Obama. He has been harder on a Cambridge police officer than he has been on Hugo Chavez or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. That’s typical behavior for him. If “racist” does not describe him, “elitist” does.

But no need to make up stuff about him, the real stuff is more than adequate.

298 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 1:13:38pm
299 LatinGent  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 1:17:53pm

But no need to make up stuff about him, the real stuff is more than adequate.

Excellent Arf. This has always been my point, the real stuff is much more damaging than the made up stuff. The Zero will sink under the weight of his own arrogance, which is becoming legendary.

300 Land Shark  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 1:20:05pm

re: #280 avspatti

I’ve wondered about that. A buddy of mine says he probably hasn’t released his transcripts because he got grades that were no better or even worst than GW Bush’s. Remember the Democrats spent a lot of time trying to portray W as an ignorant idiot, it wouldn’t do if the Obamessiah had worst grades than him. My buddy claims that is the real reason he won’t release his certificate, just to stay consistent.

I have no idea if that’s true, personally his grades don’t matter to me. It’s what Obama is doing to our country that makes me dislike him so much. And how he misrepresented himself to get elected.

301 Land Shark  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 1:29:50pm

re: #298 TwinkietheKid

Even if, even if it could be proved that he was born outside the US, would it matter?

You’re damn right—it wouldn’t.

I’m not sure about that. I’m convinced he was born in the US, but if he wasn’t it’s a very big, damning lie. Big enough that it should matter to any law abiding citizen. He basically would have commited fraud to get himself elected. If that lie doesn’t matter, then Nixon lying about the Watergate cover up shouldn’t matter.

But since he was born in Hawaii, it’s not something I’m worried about.

302 American Sabra  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 2:07:24pm

re: #108 zombie

My grandfather had a saying, “Don’t trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.”

This is all conjecture and it means nothing. Just more fodder for the morons.

His middle name is Hussein for cripes sake. A point some bloggers just looove to mention constantly. As if racial/religious diversity is some kind of sin in this country. At any rate, why in the world would he want to hide anything else if he didn’t hide that? And what’s it anybody’s business anyway? There is only one relevant piece of info on that birth certificate. What state was he born in.

I mentioned something yesterday about dirty Republican politics and was dinged down 17 times. This kind of stuff is a prime example of such a thing. Create trouble where no trouble exists.

303 JohnH  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 2:11:39pm

As a conservative, I wish this issue would go away.

BHO will fail on his own. Just give him time.

The question I always ask is “if you could get rid of Obama, would you really rather have Biden… or Pelosi.” That usually brings a look of horror.

Every 12 years or so, the country elects a liberal-leftist and usually recoils in horror within a few months, realizing what a disaster they are. It’s already happening.

304 Cygnus  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 2:15:31pm

re: #92 MikeAlv77

I thought they were like the build-a-bear places in the mall…

Ya know, Build-a-Burger might be a good franchise to create. Use it to take over the world…

BWAHHH!!! The world will be ours now that our alien-birthed president is in…

Build-a-Cheezburgr - another evil plot by Basement Cat!!

305 Cygnus  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 2:22:04pm

re: #188 Mad Al-Jaffee

I’d rather have some Tang.

POG Juice is way better.

306 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 2:58:00pm

The update is hilarious.

307 notutopia  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 3:11:15pm

BREAKING NEWS!!! Shocking proof that Obama was not born in Hawaii.
Hilariously funny.
Those who continue to propagate this line of thinking are in what I call, the Obama Fugue state.
; (

308 Hawaii69  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 3:29:07pm

re: #108 zombie

He was born in Hawaii.

Of that there is no doubt.

And I’m quite sure that Chiyome Fukino has seen and verified Obama’s original birth certificate. She’s not lying.

But this does bring up a question that has still not been resolved. The birthers ask it as a rhetorical question, but let’s ask it for real:

Why hasn’t Obama authorized that a photograph or a verified copy of his original birth certificate be released to the public?

Now, the birthers ask this question simply to provide the “obvious” answer: Because it doesn’t exist!

Which of course is just a conspiracy theory with no evidence to back it up.

However, the anti-birthers just as often give their answer: He won’t release it because by withholding it he’s cleverly allowing the birther movement to discredit itself and as a result the far right wing looks like a bunch of crazies.

But there’s no evidence for this assertion either. I don’t think Obama needs to play juvenile “Gotcha!” games to discredit the far right. He’s already been elected, and as far as the Democrats are concerned, the far right are already completely irrelevant.

So I think that there must be some other reason.

It not that it doesn’t exist.
It’s not that Obama is simply trying to “drive his opponents crazy” with frustration.

My only conclusion is: There’s something else on that certificate which would be embarrassing to him, and which he doesn’t want the country to see. But what?

We already know that he has an Islamic name. That wouldn’t be an embarrassment — it’s already a known fact.

We already know that his mother was still a minor. Not embarrassing.

So what else is left? I can only see two possibilities:

a. That it lists his mother as being single, whereas Obama has always claimed she and his father were married at the time.

OR

b. It lists his “race” as being something other than “negro” (or whatever terminology they used in Hawaii at the time).

I think option “a” is very unlikely because in Obama’s view, being the child of a single mother wouldn’t be something to hide — it would be something to brag about. More evidence that he lifted himself up out of poverty and deprivation to the White House.

Therefore, I have a strong suspicion that the answer is “b”: that he is listed as being “caucasian” or “white” (or whatever terminology they used in Hawaii at the time). Which would completely undermine his entire constructed “life story” about which he wrote two books and on which he has based his entire political career.

Thoughts?


Refer to the link in post 271. The Hawaii long form doesn’t list the race of the child, only that of the parents.

309 Yashmak  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 3:50:22pm

re: #301 Land Shark

If that lie doesn’t matter, then Nixon lying about the Watergate cover up shouldn’t matter.

It strikes me that in THIS day and age, the Watergate cover up would probably get a whole lot less traction than it did back then…which is itself a commentary on the slow degradation of the idea of presidential integrity.

310 Cato  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 4:33:33pm

Something looks strange about the breaking news memo. I wonder what it could be?

311 sngnsgt  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 6:32:18pm

That memo can’t be real, it’s not flashing.

312 Mauser  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 7:23:44pm

I have absolute proof of the existence of god on a box in my garage. No, of course you can’t see it. You’ll just have to take my word for it.

This statement DOES prove that the document is not “Lost” and that the only alternative, the .jpg that the Daily Kos was passing around, or the printout of that .jpg that the Annenberg Center wouldn’t let anyone else examine (Two CLEARLY unimpeachable sources, right?) is irrelevant.

(Anyone remember the forensic image analysis that proved the Kos .jpg was edited?)

Neither side of the debate has verifiable proof. Which makes the entire argument a matter of faith.

Anyone who has declared the issue to be settled one way or the other is operating on faith. Either faith in the Daily Kos (heaven forbid) that he was, or faith that the document will remain hidden forever because they are “right”.

I’m withholding judgment either way. He’s Schrodinger’s baby. The only problem is, you can open the box and find that democracy is dead now, or wait until 2012 to find out it’s dead.

But I do have to wonder if there’s a reason the President is keeping all his records hidden (Much like Kerry’s service record). Perhaps that the Nirthers’ are expending all this effort on something easily kept from them so that they are distracted from finding out something that really will make a difference?

Another form of Useful Idiots, perhaps. Keep the Right running in circles. Throw a little gas on the fire any time you need a distraction. Get a reporter who is in your pocket a chance to read a scripted question and get a scripted non-response to get them all fired up and distracted again.

313 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:29:45pm

re: #312 Mauser

You’re wrong. The issue has been settled. This has nothing to do with the Daily Kos - get a grip.

314 Mauser  Wed, Jul 29, 2009 3:21:53am

I’m no nirther, I’m just a skeptic. I don’t just accept anyone’s say-so. And nobody’s putting out any proof, just tangential stuff.

If that makes people think I’m a nirther, well, that’s just idiocy. There’s a pretty serious difference.

And of course, the nirthers have a much harder row to hoe, because their position currently is based on a logical fallacy (“Lack of proof is proof of lack”).

On the other hand, we’ve seen that even Snopes isn’t incorruptible. “Appeal to authority” is also a logical fallacy. Are we now taking Obama at his word?

All I’m saying is that NEITHER side has persuaded me. And that’s it.

315 revGDright  Wed, Jul 29, 2009 4:39:50am

This issue is a lot like the Bush AWOL in the Guard issue. Except in the Bush case there wasn’t as much effort by the media and blogs to marginalize and discredit the claimants.

316 RomanceWritR  Wed, Jul 29, 2009 5:01:15am

I have no doubt that Obama was born in Hawaii, but that is not the end of the issue. His “Real” Birth Certiciate would tell if he was adopted by his other’s Indonesian husband, Lolo Soetoro. Birth Certificates are amended when a child is adopted in an effort to keep the child from knowing they are adopted.

If he was adopted he would have becone an Indonesian citizen, or at the very least have duel citizenship. This is why Obama will not release the “Vault Copy.”

317 freetoken  Wed, Jul 29, 2009 5:36:01am

re: #314 Mauser


And of course, the nirthers have a much harder row to hoe, because their position currently is based on a logical fallacy (“Lack of proof is proof of lack”).

Dude… that is so twisted… you just can never be taken seriously.

318 Mauser  Wed, Jul 29, 2009 8:24:01am

re: #317 freetoken

Dude… that is so twisted… you just can never be taken seriously.

No, but it’s the same argument creationists use when they say “Where are the fossils of half-man-half-chimp? There aren’t any, therefore Evolution is false!”

See, a logical fallacy. If you don’t understand that, maybe you shouldn’t be down-dinging comments.

319 JEA62  Wed, Jul 29, 2009 8:34:18am

re: #316 RomanceWritR


And you know this because, why, the drunken monkeys whispered it to you?

320 GGMac  Wed, Jul 29, 2009 8:49:23am

re: #319 JEA62

And you know this because, why, the drunken monkeys whispered it to you?

Your snark is uncalled for. RomanceWritR was suggesting a possible scenario, not stating anything as written in stone. If you would re-read the comment, you would likely note the use of the word “IF”.

321 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 29, 2009 8:55:08am

re: #314 Mauser

No. Again, you are simply wrong. Obama’s citizenship has been proven, beyond all doubt. End of story. If you won’t accept it, then yes, you’re a Nirther.

322 amrafel  Wed, Jul 29, 2009 9:00:19am

““I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai’i State Department of Health verifying Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii “

Wait, it one place it says “Hawaii” and in another it says “Hawai’i.” I’d look into that discrepancy if I were you. It looks very very suspicious.
And “Barrack”? Since when did it have two “r’s”?

I think I’d better close with “I’m just kidding” or else you might actually believe me.

323 Mauser  Wed, Jul 29, 2009 7:43:36pm

re: #321 Charles

No. Again, you are simply wrong. Obama’s citizenship has been proven, beyond all doubt. End of story. If you won’t accept it, then yes, you’re a Nirther.

Excuse me. But can you see ANYWHERE that I said I don’t accept his citizenship?

I just don’t accept the arguments put forth by either side, since they are either fact-free, or irrelevant.

Insisting on intellectual rigor from both sides of a debate does not make me a Nirther.

324 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 29, 2009 9:21:52pm

re: #323 Mauser

Excuse me. But can you see ANYWHERE that I said I don’t accept his citizenship?

I just don’t accept the arguments put forth by either side, since they are either fact-free, or irrelevant.

Insisting on intellectual rigor from both sides of a debate does not make me a Nirther.

There are no “two sides” to this issue. The Nirthers are WRONG, pure and simple.

325 Mauser  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:28:22am

re: #324 Charles

So, as you see, I never denied his citizenship. Therefore I am not a Nirther. And therefore I resent you treating me like one. (Especially the consistent down dings, and their echoes. I mean, really, what was wrong about 318 where I compared Nirthers to Creationists. I thought you’d appreciate that).

And of course there are two sides. A right side and a wrong side. :-)


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Trump Election Commissioner Used Dubious Data to Allege an “Alien Invasion” - Mother Jones Election officials and experts say there’s plenty of reason to doubt those claims.But they could still provide a blueprint for Trump’s commission, which has so far hinted at tighter restrictions on voting in the name of cracking down on ...
Thanos
6 days, 8 hours ago
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Inside the Middle East’s First Rape & Domestic Violence Crisis Program For the last year and a half, there’s been a new sight in the Kingdom of Bahrain. Lodged into stacks of newspapers, stuck to mirrors in restaurant bathrooms, and pinned to grocery store notice boards are small, blue-and-white fliers ...
Birth Control Works
1 week ago
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First Aid Kit - My Silver LiningFirst Aid Kit perform My Silver Lining at Glastonbury 2017
Thanos
1 week, 1 day ago
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