Jihad in North Carolina

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Seven men, all but one of them US citizens, have been arrested in North Carolina in a homegrown jihad plot: 7 arrested in North Carolina on terrorism charges.

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Federal authorities in North Carolina on Monday arrested seven men who they said had trained with high-powered weapons as part of a terrorist conspiracy to wage an Islamic holy war overseas.

The men — including a father who, authorities said, trained in jihad camps in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and his two sons — sought to provide material support to terrorists and to murder, kidnap, maim and injure people overseas, according to a seven-count federal indictment. The indictment did not allege that the group was plotting attacks on U.S. soil.

If convicted, the suspects, all but one of whom are U.S. citizens, could face life in prison.

At least some of the men were willing to die as martyrs, according to the indictment, which described a plot that began in 2006 and lasted until earlier this month. It said that the North Carolina residents had raised donations to support their training and had recruited and radicalized others — “mostly young Muslims or converts to Islam, to believe … the idea that violent jihad was a personal obligation on the part of every good Muslim.”

The men also offered weapons training and helped arrange overseas travel and contacts for others seeking to wage holy war, the indictment said.

Two federal law enforcement officials on Monday said the men did not commit any violent acts.

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115 comments
1 MikeAlv77  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:28:17am

This is related to Obama and his birth certificate… Aliens are responsible for Obama’s birth and people misusing islam…

(Just trying to relate it to the previous thread)

2 Randall Gross  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:28:33am

Almost always the Pakistan connection to non-Shia terrorists.

3 Kragar  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:29:00am

Obviously, these actions were a response to the failed economic policies of George W. Bush.

/

4 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:30:33am
5 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:30:54am

Peaceful inner struggle!

6 sagehen  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:31:43am

Score another point for the law enforcement approach to combatting terrorism.

And isn’t that so much better than sending tanks and soldiers? (I hate Cheney more and more with each new revelation — it’s like he never even read the constitution.)

7 Clubsec  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:31:59am

Clearly misguided youts. I blame Bush.

8 CIA Reject  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:32:51am

Only in America would you find a jihadist named Daniel Patrick Boyd.

9 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:33:05am

re: #4 taxfreekiller

Ellis Island worked good.
Still could.

Alcatraz Island worked well also!

10 lawhawk  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:33:22am

There’s an eighth guy they’re looking for as well.

U.S. Attorney George E.B. Holding told The Associated Press on Tuesday that authorities hope to soon apprehend an eighth person described in an indictment unsealed a day earlier. The person’s name is redacted from court papers.

The indictment says the unnamed defendant is a U.S. citizen who went to Pakistan in October 2008 to “engage in violent jihad.” It does not say whether the person returned to the United States. Holding declined to discuss the person’s whereabouts but said the public should not be worried.

Authorities arrested seven men Monday, accusing them of military-style training at home and plotting terror attacks abroad.

11 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:33:23am

re: #6 sagehen

Score another point for the law enforcement approach to combatting terrorism.

And isn’t that so much better than sending tanks and soldiers? (I hate Cheney more and more with each new revelation — it’s like he never even read the constitution.)

Sending tanks and soldiers where? Into North Carolina? This is a thread about a local incident with possible terrorist.

Why are you conflating the two issues?

12 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:34:17am

re: #6 sagehen

Score another point for the law enforcement approach to combatting terrorism.

And isn’t that so much better than sending tanks and soldiers? (I hate Cheney more and more with each new revelation — it’s like he never even read the constitution.)

Yes,, because the North Carolina State Police were so effective in Iraq and Afghanastan!!

13 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:34:32am

re: #12 sattv4u2

Yes,, because the North Carolina State Police were so effective in Iraq and Afghanastan!!

oh ,, wait ,, nevahmind!!

14 CIA Reject  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:34:44am

re: #6 sagehen

Score another point for the law enforcement approach to combatting terrorism.

And isn’t that so much better than sending tanks and soldiers? (I hate Cheney more and more with each new revelation — it’s like he never even read the constitution.)

As much as I appreciate our law enforcement community I would much rather have scum like this dealt with by our soldiers on the other side of the world than by the FBI down the street.

But that’s just me…

16 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:35:29am

re: #11 Walter L. Newton

…conflating?

Did I just make up a word?

17 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:35:32am

re: #14 CIA Reject

But that’s just me…

And me

18 Clubsec  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:35:33am

Is this related to the Duke LaCross team?
Then I’ll blame the coach and Bush.
Jihad is a result of republican economic policies … they are after all in charge, … aren’t they?

19 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:35:34am

re: #6 sagehen

Score another point for the law enforcement approach to combatting terrorism.

And isn’t that so much better than sending tanks and soldiers? (I hate Cheney more and more with each new revelation — it’s like he never even read the constitution.)

Wow, CDS, haven’t seen that for a while.

20 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:36:16am

re: #19 Alouette

Wow, CDS, haven’t seen that for a while.

You haven;’t seen Pelosi talk tofday, have you ?

21 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:36:36am

America out of North Carolina!

///

22 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:36:55am

re: #16 Walter L. Newton

Did I just make up a word?

It’s a real word.

23 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:37:16am

re: #22 Ward Cleaver

It’s a real word.

Did I use it right?

24 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:37:29am

re: #16 Walter L. Newton

re: #22 Ward Cleaver

It’s a real word.

That it is,,,it’s WALTER thats made up!

25 Randall Gross  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:37:30am

NC is also home to a somewhat infamous internet Jihadist that Rusty’s been tangling with a few years iirc.

26 HelloDare  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:37:49am

re: #16 Walter L. Newton

Did I just make up a word?

No. That’s the right word. Cornflaking, that’s a made-up word.

27 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:38:06am

re: #23 Walter L. Newton

Did I use it right?

Yeah, I think so. It basically means mixing two unrelated things together.

28 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:38:51am

re: #26 HelloDare

No. That’s the right word. Cornflaking, that’s a made-up word.

You’re thinking of corksuckers.

/johnny dangerously

29 callahan23  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:39:16am

And their target yet again amongst others:

… and two other suspects went to Israel to wage jihad but returned without success.

The ever old story of anti-semitism mixed into the recipe of violent Islam.

30 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:39:34am

re: #24 sattv4u2

re: #22 Ward Cleaver

That it is,,,it’s WALTER thats made up!

So he wasn’t born in Hawaii?

31 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:39:42am

re: #28 Ward Cleaver

You’re thinking of corksuckers.

/johnny dangerously

Why would I be thinking of lollipops from Irelands County Cork??

32 quiet man  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:40:07am

I thought “cornflaking” was what those who call the tea parties, “teabagging” were doing

33 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:40:23am

re: #30 Ward Cleaver

So he wasn’t born in Hawaii?

He was,,, and he doesn’t have the ID to prove it !!

//

34 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:40:45am
35 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:41:11am

re: #34 buzzsawmonkey

I thought corksuckers were a cult of crazed oeneophiles.

great ,, now we all have to scurry to dictionary.com!!!

36 albusteve  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:41:22am

cold iron shackles, ball and chain
listen to the whistle of the evenin train
you know you bound to wind up dead
if you don’t head back to Tennessee Jed

GD

37 itellu3times  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:41:53am

re: #27 Ward Cleaver

Yeah, I think so. It basically means mixing two unrelated things together.

like in prison?
/

38 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:42:04am

re: #36 albusteve

cold iron shackles, ball and chain
listen to the whistle of the evenin train
you know you bound to wind up dead
if you don’t head back to Tennessee Jed

GD

Well the 1st thing ya know ole Jeds a millionare,
,,,

39 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:42:19am

re: #36 albusteve

cold iron shackles, ball and chain
listen to the whistle of the evenin train
you know you bound to wind up dead
if you don’t head back to Tennessee Jed

GD

Jed Clampett?

40 AuntAcid  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:42:45am

re: #15 Alouette

Does this guy look like the poster child for backwoods inbreeding?

Back woods of NH, VT. and ME? Then, yes.

41 callahan23  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:42:48am

re: #35 sattv4u2

great ,, now we all have to scurry to dictionary.com!!!

Wine-aficionados?

42 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:43:03am

re: #39 Ward Cleaver

SickMTA

43 sagehen  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:43:34am

re: #11 Walter L. Newton

Sending tanks and soldiers where? Into North Carolina? This is a thread about a local incident with possible terrorist.

Why are you conflating the two issues?


The guys in Lackawanna NY (a suburb of Buffalo), arrested by the FBI in 2002… Cheney wanted to send the military instead of the FBI.

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

44 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:43:42am

re: #32 quiet man

I thought “cornflaking” was what those who call the tea parties, “teabagging” were doing


It’s the same thing.. Except you add milk and fruit. It’s like a bad scene out of 9 1/2 Weeks.

45 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:44:27am

re: #15 Alouette

Does this guy look like the poster child for backwoods inbreeding?

Is that a check from the KSA in his pocket?

/or he is just happy to see us?

46 HelloDare  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:44:32am

Who’s running our foreign policy, Bill Ayers?

US revokes visas for Honduran officials

The State Department says it has revoked the diplomatic visas for four Honduran officials working in its interim government.

The announcement comes as the United States has been pressing for Honduras to allow the return of exiled President Manuel Zelaya.

State Department spokesman Ian Kelly did not specify Tuesday the names of the four officials, who he said are not in the United States. Kelly said that the department is reviewing the visas of all members of the interim government.

He said the revocations was in keeping with the U.S. policy of not recognizing the interim government.

47 Gang of One  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:44:32am

re: #6 sagehen

Score another point for the law enforcement approach to combatting terrorism.

And isn’t that so much better than sending tanks and soldiers? (I hate Cheney more and more with each new revelation — it’s like he never even read the constitution.)

Oy.

48 Clubsec  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:44:35am

Dearborne Michigan anyone?
A little long, but have a look…



Sorry my link C&P skills are non existant :(

The solution for the ‘security’ at this event would be to send in your local Hell’s Angels or Pagan’s MC gang and sell tickets.

49 Kragar  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:44:35am

re: #44 HoosierHoops

It’s the same thing.. Except you add milk and fruit. It’s like a bad scene out of 9 1/2 Weeks.

There were good scenes?

50 lawhawk  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:44:53am

Here’s an interesting observation about that House vote. It was 378-0. Where were all those others who voted present or didn’t vote at all?

That includes people like Luap Nor. John Murtha. And Henry Waxman.

51 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:45:20am

re: #43 sagehen

The guys in Lackawanna NY (a suburb of Buffalo), arrested by the FBI in 2002… Cheney wanted to send the military instead of the FBI.

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

Not like the NYT is ever wrong about anything…

52 funky chicken  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:45:45am

This guy was a jihadist in Af/Pak back in the late 80s, got arrested for bank robbery in Pakistan back in the early 90s, and was allowed to fly to Israel in 2007?

Um, shouldn’t somebody have shut him down before now? Or at least had him on a no-fly list?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad they took him down.

53 quiet man  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:45:46am

re: #46 HelloDare

If Ayres is running it..Chavez is his go to guy

54 midwestgak  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:45:50am

re: #26 HelloDare

No. That’s the right word. Cornflaking, that’s a made-up word.

Google it and be careful. The “Urban” dictionary definition is … not going to say.

55 Gang of One  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:45:53am
56 albusteve  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:46:35am

re: #43 sagehen

The guys in Lackawanna NY (a suburb of Buffalo), arrested by the FBI in 2002… Cheney wanted to send the military instead of the FBI.

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

green cheese

57 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:47:01am

re: #28 Ward Cleaver

You’re thinking of corksuckers.

/johnny dangerously

Uh… it’s “cork-sockers”.

58 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:47:19am

re: #55 Gang of One

Looks like Opie gone bad.

Opie has gone bad. He (and Andy) supported 0bama, in a stupid, creepy video for Funny or Die.

59 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:47:24am

re: #43 sagehen

The guys in Lackawanna NY (a suburb of Buffalo), arrested by the FBI in 2002… Cheney wanted to send the military instead of the FBI.

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

And far be it for the NYT to misrepresent something the Bush administration did.

60 funky chicken  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:47:42am

re: #6 sagehen

wowzer

61 CIA Reject  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:47:57am

re: #57 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Uh… it’s “cork-sockers”.

Oh, those farging iceholes!

62 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:48:04am

I wonder if he ever said, “I’ma gonna open up a can of jihad on y’all.”

63 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:48:08am

re: #43 sagehen

The guys in Lackawanna NY (a suburb of Buffalo), arrested by the FBI in 2002… Cheney wanted to send the military instead of the FBI.

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

We’ve used troops on our streets before. What’s your problem. Thanks goodness we had National Guard on the street of New Orleans, because the worthless local government couldn’t even keep their own police officers from looting.

And what the hell do you think the FBI is? It’s a Federal force.

And silly, this proposal was made, examined and never happened, so you you are beating a straw man.

Thinks, please, use your head.

64 LGoPs  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:48:11am

re: #46 HelloDare

Who’s running our foreign policy, Bill Ayers?

The State Department says it has revoked the diplomatic visas for four Honduran officials working in its interim government.

The announcement comes as the United States has been pressing for Honduras to allow the return of exiled President Manuel Zelaya.

State Department spokesman Ian Kelly did not specify Tuesday the names of the four officials, who he said are not in the United States. Kelly said that the department is reviewing the visas of all members of the interim government.

He said the revocations was in keeping with the U.S. policy of not recognizing the interim government.

We need a new chant:
*US Out of Honduras**US Out of Honduras*

65 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:48:30am

re: #34 buzzsawmonkey

Then there’s cork soakers, guys who specialize in corks at vineyards. I learned that from a SNL sketch.

66 quiet man  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:48:37am

re: #59 Noam Sayin’
Yes, the NYTs would never do anything unethical against anyone, ever.


/

67 JohnnyReb  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:48:41am

re: #59 Noam Sayin’

And far be it for the NYT to misrepresent something the Bush administration did.

It isn’t like the NY Times had an agenda or anything regarding the Bush administration./

68 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:49:05am

re: #43 sagehen

The guys in Lackawanna NY (a suburb of Buffalo), arrested by the FBI in 2002… Cheney wanted to send the military instead of the FBI.

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

{sigh}

You really do not understand how an advisory board or a cabinet, woks, do you?
Bush called his top advisors and asked for ALL LEGAL options. That was but one of many, and one of many that Bush decided against

Reda the rest of your link. It states clearly that the Bush team did due diligence to
A) find out if it was legal
and
B) make a decision on the course of action to take to
(wait for it)
DO WHAT THE POTUS IS SUPPOSED TO DO

69 latingent  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:50:09am

OT: Drudge has a bit of a bombshell, it seems that Zero complained that the Bush Administration was pushing legislation through congress that no one had the chance to read or debate.
`When you rush these budgets that are a foot high and nobody has any idea what’s in them and nobody has read them. ` Barack Obama, on the Randi Rhodes show 2004.

70 LGoPs  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:50:10am

re: #6 sagehen

Score another point for the law enforcement approach to combatting terrorism.

And isn’t that so much better than sending tanks and soldiers? (I hate Cheney more and more with each new revelation — it’s like he never even read the constitution.)

Some food has spoiled in my fridge. Goddamn that Cheney. He is everywhere!
///

71 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:50:14am
72 Steve Rogers  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:50:39am

But I thought everyone was supposed to love us starting on January 20th! Why aren’t these people unclinching their fists, singing Kumbaya and having a beer? The only reason they hated us was because of Bush. Now that’s he’s gone there is no more reason for jihad.

73 lawhawk  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:50:40am

re: #43 sagehen

Cheney and several others argued that the military should be used. President Bush, NSA Rice, and others wanted to maintain the FBI role - and follow the law under the US Constitution and Posse Comitatus. It shows that the President was very clearly interested in adhering to the US Constitution, and not shredding it as the Left insisted all along. It also disproves that Bush was a puppet for Cheney. Cheney’s interpretation was wrong, but he was concerned about law enforcement taking a lead on these cases - where jihadis were operating on US soil when law enforcement had not done quite enough to prevent attacks.

Law enforcement excels at cleaning up after attacks, not preventing them before they occur. It’s gotten better in recent years, but it requires catching breaks (like a Circuit City employee seeing video showing jihadis in action - Fort Dix Six) and/or infiltrating groups after getting leads.

74 quiet man  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:50:45am

re: #69 latingent
Yes, but that was before Obama became a god

75 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:51:18am

re: #71 buzzsawmonkey

If the Bush Administration had done that, there’s no telling how lawless they might have become. Why, they might have nationalized private industries, or attempted to have the government take over health care.

No, not that!

76 doppelganglander  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:51:25am

re: #15 Alouette

Does this guy look like the poster child for backwoods inbreeding?

Not really. I live in the South and he looks like a lot of my neighbors. I’ve seen inbreeding, and he’s not it.

77 Clubsec  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:52:42am

re: #48 … Wow. My attempt at attaching a link worked. I suppose miracles will never cease.
Oh and if you have a BP problem make sure you’re on a full regime of your ACE pills before you watch the vid.

78 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:53:36am

re: #43 sagehen

VP Cheney was concerned that islamic militants were already in possession of weapons of mass destruction and that they were ready to use these weapons within the USA killing millions of citizens.

79 turn  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:53:44am

re: #69 latingent

OT: Drudge has a bit of a bombshell, it seems that Zero complained that the Bush Administration was pushing legislation through congress that no one had the chance to read or debate.
`When you rush these budgets that are a foot high and nobody has any idea what’s in them and nobody has read them. ` Barack Obama, on the Randi Rhodes show 2004.

Rush was all over that today too, but hey that was then and this is now and HE WON! friggin hypocrite

80 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:54:08am

Sagehen, I think you’ll find you’ll last longer here if you leave your bullshit arguments over at Kos.

81 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:54:40am

re: #78 experiencedtraveller

VP Cheney was concerned that islamic militants were already in possession of weapons of mass destruction and that they were ready to use these weapons within the USA killing millions of citizens.

SORRY ,, THIS POST DID NOT PENETRATE SAGEHENS TINFOIL HAT

82 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:54:57am

re: #73 lawhawk

Cheney and several others argued that the military should be used. President Bush, NSA Rice, and others wanted to maintain the FBI role - and follow the law under the US Constitution and Posse Comitatus. It shows that the President was very clearly interested in adhering to the US Constitution, and not shredding it as the Left insisted all along. It also disproves that Bush was a puppet for Cheney. Cheney’s interpretation was wrong, but he was concerned about law enforcement taking a lead on these cases - where jihadis were operating on US soil when law enforcement had not done quite enough to prevent attacks.

Law enforcement excels at cleaning up after attacks, not preventing them before they occur. It’s gotten better in recent years, but it requires catching breaks (like a Circuit City employee seeing video showing jihadis in action - Fort Dix Six) and/or infiltrating groups after getting leads.

You’re asking sagehen to actually think out the whole possibilities of the story, Such as it was exploratory on the administrations part, we had been attached on our own soil not months before, it never shook out that way, administrations are always weighing all sorts of plans, keeping them handy in case they are needed.

No, sagehen has only one narrow position, which he will try to prove, all facts and critical thinking skills be dammed.

Critical and logical thinking, it’s not available in a box of cereal.

83 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:55:17am

re: #70 LGoPs

Some food has spoiled in my fridge. Goddamn that Cheney. He is everywhere!
///

Oh, be rational and try not to be so paranoid. Everyone knows that your spoiled food was caused by Karl Rove!

84 HelloDare  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:55:55am

re: #69 latingent

That story is sitting at the top of the Spinoff Links. Glad to see Drudge picked it up. Love to see it as his banner headline or in red type.

85 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:55:56am

re: #81 sattv4u2

SORRY ,, THIS POST DID NOT PENETRATE SAGEHENS TINFOIL HAT

I know for a fact that tinfoil will not help you against a WMD.

86 AuntAcid  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:56:18am

re: #73 lawhawk

Catching the breaks - [Link: fashionista.com…]

87 LGoPs  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:56:52am

re: #69 latingent

OT: Drudge has a bit of a bombshell, it seems that Zero complained that the Bush Administration was pushing legislation through congress that no one had the chance to read or debate.
`When you rush these budgets that are a foot high and nobody has any idea what’s in them and nobody has read them. ` Barack Obama, on the Randi Rhodes show 2004.

This is just like Obama’s staements when he voted against Bush’s SCOTUS nominees. Said they were fully qualified but he wouldn’t support them on idealogical grounds. But now that he is President, of course he needs to be given the benefit of the doubt on his choices.
The guiding principle for Libtards is “The rules are whatever the fuck we say they are”

88 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:57:43am

re: #85 experiencedtraveller

I know for a fact that tinfoil will not help you against a WMD.

Whooly Mammoth Disease?

89 sagehen  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:59:21am

re: #73 lawhawk

Cheney and several others argued that the military should be used. President Bush, NSA Rice, and others wanted to maintain the FBI role - and follow the law under the US Constitution and Posse Comitatus. It shows that the President was very clearly interested in adhering to the US Constitution, and not shredding it as the Left insisted all along. It also disproves that Bush was a puppet for Cheney. Cheney’s interpretation was wrong, but he was concerned about law enforcement t


which is why my post only criticized Cheney, and not the rest of the administration.

Apparently that’s an unpopular thing to do around here.

90 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:00:48am

re: #88 sattv4u2

Whooly Mammoth Disease?

Uno!

Dos!

Tres!

Quatro!

Oh wait, that’s Wooly Bully Disease.

91 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:00:50am

re: #89 sagehen

which is why my post only criticized Cheney, and not the rest of the administration.

Apparently that’s an unpopular thing to do around here.

No, apparently not using your brain is unpopular. Cheney did nothing wrong.

92 JohnnyReb  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:01:43am

re: #85 experiencedtraveller

I know for a fact that tinfoil will not help you against a WMD.

How the heck did you come by that piece of info?

93 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:02:38am

re: #92 JohnnyReb

How the heck did you come by that piece of info?

Sorry Reb. Classified above your pay grade. ;)

94 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:05:08am

re: #89 sagehen

which is why my post only criticized Cheney, and not the rest of the administration.

Apparently that’s an unpopular thing to do around here.

From the end of that NYTimes article:

In a Wall Street Journal op-ed article in March, Mr. Yoo defended his 2001 memorandum and its reasoning, saying that after Sept. 11 the Bush administration faced the real prospect of Qaeda cells undertaking attacks on American soil. “The possibility of such attacks raised difficult, fundamental questions of constitutional law,” he wrote, “because they might require domestic military operations against an enemy for the first time since the Civil War.”

/just stating a context

95 AuntAcid  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:07:47am

Story by Mark Kendall
Illustrations by Daniel Vasconcellos

The Sagehen is plump, prefers walking to flying and often is likened to the chicken. …, known to ornithologists as the sage grouse, has still managed to garner quite a reputation for its colorful sex life.

The bird’s mating ritual unfolds in spring when the males gather at breeding grounds known as leks. The sage cocks strut, fight for position and fan their tail feathers in a scene that leaves observers straining for adjectives and analogies. The most impressive move is when male birds swish their wings and puff up the large air sacs that hang on their chests. The swelling sacs create an unusual noise that draws descriptions ranging from something akin to the sound of water dripping in a cave to “loud gurgling pops reminiscent of whales burping underwater,” …

Okay then, this explains it all.

96 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:08:24am

re: #89 sagehen

Dumbass arguments are unpopular here.

97 razorbacker  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:10:43am

As I noted in my post this morning, information from the dreaded FISA was used to indict Mr. Boyd and the rest.

*tsk, tsk*

Oh well, broken eggs and omelets, as they say.

98 calcajun  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:17:07am

re: #88 sattv4u2

Whooly Mammoth Disease?

White Male; Domesticated?

99 haakondahl  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:40:01am

re: #43 sagehen

The guys in Lackawanna NY (a suburb of Buffalo), arrested by the FBI in 2002… Cheney wanted to send the military instead of the FBI.

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

Good for him. President Clinton wanted to send the FBI instead of the military. We practiced law enforcement against people like Omar Abdel-Rahman and Ramzi Yousef for a decade. Look where that got us. It seems that for several years, we all pretty much agreed that this was a long-overdue change, and that carping about who did what before 9/11 wouldn’t help much.

I guess that’s all forgotten now. It’s all right—we have plenty of towers, and an endless supply of people.

100 haakondahl  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:51:55am

re: #89 sagehen

which is why my post only criticized Cheney, and not the rest of the administration.

Apparently that’s an unpopular thing to do around here.

I also responded to your Katrina post, in which you criticized the rest of the administration for *not* sending the military in, and without the permission of the states, at that.

101 FabioC.  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 12:04:52pm

The law enforcement approach to terrorism has some other drawbacks.

It requires the various agencies to be more intrusive, and a legal system with lessened standards of evidence and due process.

It requires more surveillance and reliance on concepts like “conspiracy to commit a crime”.

Ultimately it weakens presumption of innocence.

There has to be a tradeoff somewhere.

102 haakondahl  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 12:08:49pm

re: #101 FabioC.

The law enforcement approach to terrorism has some other drawbacks.

It requires the various agencies to be more intrusive, and a legal system with lessened standards of evidence and due process.

It requires more surveillance and reliance on concepts like “conspiracy to commit a crime”.

Ultimately it weakens presumption of innocence.

There has to be a tradeoff somewhere.

This is another reason why Hamdan and other decisions conferring all sort of citizen’s rights upon battlefield enemies are the road to ruin. We turn our justice system into a military matter at our peril. Do we really want our civil and criminal courts to develop the facilities and procedures required for handling national security?

103 jpkoch  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 12:12:54pm
And isn’t that so much better than sending tanks and soldiers? (I hate Cheney more and more with each new revelation — it’s like he never even read the constitution.)

I wouldn’t know,try asking Janet Reno and Bill Clinton.

104 jpkoch  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 12:14:41pm
“Do we really want our civil and criminal courts to develop the facilities and procedures required for handling national security?”

Been there, done that. The Pentagon now employs 10,000 lawyers.

105 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 12:22:09pm

re: #89 sagehen

which is why my post only criticized Cheney, and not the rest of the administration.

Apparently that’s an unpopular thing to do around here.

I fail to see the connection between this case and Dick Cheney. Perhaps you could explain it?

106 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 12:25:11pm

re: #43 sagehen

The guys in Lackawanna NY (a suburb of Buffalo), arrested by the FBI in 2002… Cheney wanted to send the military instead of the FBI.

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

But they didn’t. I think that point is important.

107 jpkoch  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 12:25:14pm
…Law enforcement excels at cleaning up after attacks, not preventing them before they occur. It’s gotten better in recent years,…

And to prevent attacks, it also requires receiving intelligence from not only the CIA and DIA, but also from foreign intel services. And that, in and of itself, is all but impossible to use in criminal courts. Foreign intelligence agencies are already loathe to share information with us. If no crime has been committed, local prosecutors would have to present evidence of a conspiracy. And defense lawyers would demand to question the sources of said intelligence, which would expose covert intelligence operations. Back in the bad old 1990s, Jamie Gorelick forbade the sharing of intelligence between the FBI, CIA, and DIA with Justice. We are back to where we started from.

108 haakondahl  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 12:36:13pm

re: #107 jpkoch

And to prevent attacks, it also requires receiving intelligence from not only the CIA and DIA, but also from foreign intel services. And that, in and of itself, is all but impossible to use in criminal courts. Foreign intelligence agencies are already loathe to share information with us. If no crime has been committed, local prosecutors would have to present evidence of a conspiracy. And defense lawyers would demand to question the sources of said intelligence, which would expose covert intelligence operations. Back in the bad old 1990s, Jamie Gorelick forbade the sharing of intelligence between the FBI, CIA, and DIA with Justice. We are back to where we started from.

Welcome to the post-post-9/11 age. We have plenty of towers, and too many people anyway.

109 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 12:50:53pm
110 ShanghaiEd  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 12:51:42pm

re: #82 Walter L. Newton

Such as it was exploratory on the administrations part, we had been attached on our own soil not months before, it never shook out that way, administrations are always weighing all sorts of plans, keeping them handy in case they are needed.

Exactly. Which is why we don’t give President Obama any crap when word leaks about programs or ideas he may be “exploring.” We need to see how it shakes out…i.e., wait till the plans are a reality…before criticizing. Works for me.
/

111 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jul 28, 2009 3:40:49pm

I hate extremists of all stripes. I find it interesting that the article said they were plotting terrorism overseas. I have heard about the jihadis looking for more western looking operatives in europe who arouse less suspicion than middle easterners. Did we just do europe a huge favor?

112 JEA62  Wed, Jul 29, 2009 8:31:40am

Isn’t he supposed to be innocent until proven guilty? Just askin’…

113 AZDave  Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:44:17am

re: #9 sattv4u2

Alcatraz Island worked well also!

Devil’s Island worked even better.

114 AZDave  Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:01:50pm

re: #71 buzzsawmonkey

If the Bush Administration had done that, there’s no telling how lawless they might have become. Why, they might have nationalized private industries, or attempted to have the government take over health care.

I guess we need to be thankful that that will never happen in this country.

115 AZDave  Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:07:17pm

re: #87 LGoPs

[snip]

The guiding principle for Libtards is “The rules are whatever the fuck we say they are”

Yep. That sounds about right.


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