Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) has a nice cozy chat with freakazoid Alex Jones about Barack Obama’s secret plan to euthanize senior citizens. You know, like Hitler.
Again I say, good grief.
1 |
Neutral President Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:23:30pm |
Surprise surprise surprise!
Oh Gohmert, not Gomer.
| 2 |
FrogMarch Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:24:05pm |
Anyone who give Alex Jones credibility is a jerk.
| 3 |
freetoken Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:26:23pm |
"...How on top of things you are, Alex..."
sheesh...
| 4 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:27:09pm |
Why alex jones is given the time of day by anyone, much less a Congressman, is beyond me. Shameful.
| 5 |
MrPaulRevere Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:27:54pm |
"That shows how on top of things you are Alex"...excuse me while I retch.
| 6 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:28:44pm |
Gohmert would have been wiser to stay clear of the whole "putting condoms on wild stallions" theme. Way too much comedy material available there.
| 7 |
cliffster Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:28:53pm |
If Alex Jones STFU in a forest, and nobody was there to not hear him, did he really STFU?
| 8 |
legalpad Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:29:22pm |
I have no patience for conspiracy theorists. It's like arguing with a drunk person.
| 9 |
FrogMarch Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:29:56pm |
I wonder if Gohmert has any idea that Alex Jones and his ridiculous paranoid schizophrenic conspiracy theory nuthouse web site Prison Planet - is the main 9/11 troofer go-to site?
| 10 |
Racer X Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:30:40pm |
West Coast Lizards:
Remember to go outside at 8:43 PM PST and watch the ISS float overhead.
Looks like a bright airplane with a light that does not blink. Northwest moving to Southwest.
| 11 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:31:05pm |
If I dig down enough do you think I can find a party to vote for? I don't even know what to call myself anymore.
| 12 |
Neutral President Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:32:02pm |
re: #9 FrogMarch
I wonder if Gohmert has any idea that Alex Jones and his ridiculous paranoid schizophrenic conspiracy theory nuthouse web site Prison Planet - is the main 9/11 troofer go-to site?
They all need to be reminded of this on a daily basis. Before Alex Jones and his millions of paranoid sycophants were unleashing puke bombs at Obama, they were doing the same thing to Bush, our troops, and the WoT.
| 13 |
MrPaulRevere Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:33:34pm |
I post this on all Alex Jones threads, I suspect the regulars are annoyed but if you haven't heard this before, give it a listen. Alex Jones belongs in a mental hospital...Alex Jones - Give Them One Hell Of A Fight
| 14 |
freetoken Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:33:44pm |
The "science czar" is planning on putting "stuff" in water to "sterilize us"?
/oh, my precious bodily fluids...
| 15 |
Kobalt Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:34:59pm |
It is common knowledge that Alex Jones is a raging paranoid schizophrenic lunatic, right??
| 19 |
karmic_inquisitor Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:36:44pm |
Don't know how trusted Alexa is these days, but according to them, Alex Jones has a reach rank in the 3,000-4,000. That is, infowars is ranked as the 3,924th most popular site on the web over the last 7 days.
So there are plenty of people following this lunatic.
[Link: www.alexa.com...]
The demographics tab is interesting - middle aged single males with no kids.
| 20 |
FrogMarch Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:36:50pm |
re: #12 ArchangelMichael
They all need to be reminded of this on a daily basis. Before Alex Jones and his millions of paranoid sycophants were unleashing puke bombs at Obama, they were doing the same thing to Bush, our troops, and the WoT.
Exactly.
| 21 |
Neutral President Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:36:54pm |
re: #15 Kobalt
It is common knowledge that Alex Jones is a raging paranoid schizophrenic lunatic, right??
A portion of the GOP seems to conveniently forgot that since his venom is directed at Obama now.
| 22 |
Neutral President Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:37:17pm |
| 24 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:38:17pm |
I'm assuming he's in a pretty secure red district because this is the kind of thing that people in competitive districts don't get away with.
| 25 |
victor_yugo Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:38:29pm |
| 26 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:38:49pm |
I have never listened to Alex Jones before now. Probably not again.
Gohmert? Small town E. TX, no doubt means well. Has a handle on his constituency. I won't begrudge it, it is what it is. Small town.
/I know the folks and geography well
| 27 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:39:01pm |
re: #7 cliffster
If Alex Jones STFU in a forest, and nobody was there to not hear him, did he really STFU?
Gohmert is actually the Rep from the forest portion of Texas. (R, Temple-Inland Industries).
| 28 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:39:22pm |
re: #10 Racer X
West Coast Lizards:
Remember to go outside at 8:43 PM PST and watch the ISS float overhead.
Looks like a bright airplane with a light that does not blink. Northwest moving to Southwest.
Damn, I just missed it. It's probably still too light outside anyways.
| 29 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:39:42pm |
To paraphrase the sign:
Facepalm: Because expressing with words just how stupid going on the Alex Jones Show is just isn't enough.
Somebody make the Bad Craziness stop!
| 30 |
MrPaulRevere Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:39:46pm |
re: #13 MrPaulRevere
Alex Jones is going to start the 'revolution' by assaulting Digg...this ole boy is nuts!!!
| 32 |
SteveC Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:41:13pm |
How is the Lizard Family this evening?
OT - I was able to speak to a group of about 100 parents of kids with heart defects Saturday. Told them my life story, and had a long Q & A session. I was honored to be asked and really enjoyed doing it, and hope I was able to help them in some way.
| 33 |
victor_yugo Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:41:48pm |
re: #30 MrPaulRevere
Alex Jones is going to start the 'revolution' by assaulting Digg...this ole boy is nuts!!!
We'll make Digg an offer dey can't refuse...
| 34 |
cliffster Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:41:49pm |
This is kinda weird. I remember back in the 90's, watching Alex Jones and laughing about it. He talked about how OKC bombing was done by the gov't to cover up the Waco thing, and things like that. It was hilarious. Not sure how we got here.
| 35 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:42:02pm |
re: #23 Killgore Trout
Ugh. We're fucked.
Yep, we're hosed. The whole political system has gone crazy. I think I may start letting the crazy in me out more. I think I'd be happier that way, since sanity is out of fashion this year.
/not sarc
| 36 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:42:11pm |
"Nation ending stuff"
Listen, this is anti-American rhetoric. No two ways about it. I'm sick of conservatives telling me America is an evil doomed nation. I have no patience left for this crap.
| 38 |
victor_yugo Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:42:59pm |
re: #32 SteveC
I was honored to be asked and really enjoyed doing it, and hope I was able to help them in some way.
If you were able to show them that someone with a heart defect can still live a healthy, productive, and rewarding life, then you certainly did help them.
| 39 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:43:01pm |
re: #13 MrPaulRevere
What a country. Where else can a no-talent paranoid psycho babbler like Jones can make a living ranting at an audience of frustrated losers.
| 40 |
FrogMarch Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:43:08pm |
re: #10 Racer X
West Coast Lizards:
Remember to go outside at 8:43 PM PST and watch the ISS float overhead.
Looks like a bright airplane with a light that does not blink. Northwest moving to Southwest.
Thank you! I just ran outside to see if I could see it, and well, I couldn't.
Too many clouds. But one of my cats wandered up to me. "Meow" she said. I said "what the hell are you doing out here?" I had no idea she was outside. I promptly picked her up and brought her inside. So - thank you. I woudn't have gone out otherwise.
| 41 |
karmic_inquisitor Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:43:13pm |
You know, it pissed me off when every lunatic on the left simply banged away at Bush with every frog-eyed conspiracy they could muster and how the Democrats simply handed those freaks the microphone only to take it away upon getting power. Cyndi? Are you listening?
And while I have a tinge of "they have it coming" as now the whackos on the right go after Obama, I never realized until now how entertaining such a "strategy" drowns out any chance for a stable minded, focused and responsible leader to emerge.
So now I guess America gets to go through a "cyber riot - cyber counter riot" stage as we metabolize internut politics.
| 42 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:43:16pm |
re: #34 cliffster
This is kinda weird. I remember back in the 90's, watching Alex Jones and laughing about it. He talked about how OKC bombing was done by the gov't to cover up the Waco thing, and things like that. It was hilarious. Not sure how we got here.
Alex Jones got to here the same way he gets to anywhere: The voices in his head told him to go here.
| 43 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:43:43pm |
Once again, the GOP pulls defeat from the jaws of victory. There's something rather depressing about watching a party implode before your very eyes.
| 44 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:44:21pm |
Red and black uniforms? What the fuck are these nuts talking about?
| 45 |
Yankee Division Son Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:44:47pm |
AJ is a bit of a loon (understated due to the rules of my mom)
| 46 |
NY Nana Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:44:56pm |
I had never heard of him, so I just did a quick search, and all I can say is that I hope there is a good State Hospital that will take him in.
My quick diagnosis is psychosis, delusional and also just plain nuts!
/There will be no charge for my service to the Lizard community. I offer proof.
| 47 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:45:23pm |
"All these pot-bellied little dwarf new-world order people!"
-- Alex Jones
| 48 |
SteveC Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:45:44pm |
re: #14 freetoken
/oh, my precious bodily fluids...
When did you develop this theory?
During the physical act of love.
| 49 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:46:04pm |
re: #47 jaunte
"All these pot-bellied little dwarf new-world order people!"
-- Alex Jones
Maybe he has some weight and stature issues.
| 50 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:46:25pm |
re: #39 jaunte
What a country. Where else can a no-talent paranoid psycho babbler like Jones can make a living ranting at an audience of frustrated losers.
There are a lot of place where nuts like Jones can have a following. We've seen insurgent movements arise in Africa around such people. In America, nuts like Jones are actually less dangerous, for which I thank the FBI and the US Marshals.
| 53 |
SteveC Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:47:29pm |
re: #42 Dark_Falcon
Alex Jones got to here the same way he gets to anywhere: The voices in his head told him to go here.
OMG! Like some kind of fucked up GPS system?!?!
| 54 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:47:31pm |
re: #44 Killgore Trout
Red and black uniforms? What the fuck are these nuts talking about?
I can't watch that. The crazy is too much for me at the end of my work day.
| 55 |
VioletTiger Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:48:11pm |
re: #8 legalpad
I have no patience for conspiracy theorists. It's like arguing with a drunk person.
We seem to be infested by kookspiracy nuts. Maybe we need a spray.
Kook-B-Gon?
| 56 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:48:28pm |
re: #53 SteveC
OMG! Like some kind of fucked up GPS system?!?!
If its associated with Alex Jones, its fucked up by definition.
| 57 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:48:40pm |
re: #44 Killgore Trout
Red and black uniforms? What the fuck are these nuts talking about?
I don't know. Starfleet uniforms, perhaps? He's afraid of redshirts coming to take him away?
| 58 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:48:51pm |
re: #50 Dark_Falcon
In fact, as soon as I posted that, some of the neo-eurofascists popped into mind.
| 60 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:49:54pm |
re: #43 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Once again, the GOP pulls defeat from the jaws of victory. There's something rather depressing about watching a party implode before your very eyes.
Methinks you despair too much. Jones is a nut. Gohmert is a small town Representative, just one of many in the House. The GOP is certainly stumbling about, but will eventually consolidate into something more sensible - when they have boiled the message out from all the present noise.
| 61 |
hokiepride Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:50:46pm |
Charles,
Just my 2c, but don't you think there are more important things that merit the attention of this blog, like the health care debate? If the GOPers keep eating each other, Obama and Pelosi will ram every bit of socialist legislation down our throats. Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones and Glenn Beck are not the GOP's adversaries, Obama and Pelosi are.
| 62 |
Neutral President Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:51:02pm |
re: #51 Sharmuta
Not quite.
Wasn't it the Birchers who started the "Fluoridation Mandrake!" bullshit?
| 64 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:51:51pm |
re: #60 The Shadow Do
Methinks you despair too much. Jones is a nut. Gohmert is a small town Representative, just one of many in the House. The GOP is certainly stumbling about, but will eventually consolidate into something more sensible - when they have boiled the message out from all the present noise.
My worry is that there's not enough time for them to boil it down sufficiently before 2010. Worse, that in the process, more Repub Congress critters may think the whacko crowd is a vote mine worth venturing into, driving more moderate voters into the arms of the Dem Party.
| 66 |
Neutral President Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:52:58pm |
re: #63 NY Nana
I feel better about myself now. He's a few months older than me but looks like hes a decade or two older.
| 67 |
Racer X Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:52:59pm |
OK that was cool!
Again there was the ISS, and a satellite tracking right in front of it. And for the kicker - an awesome shooting star!
| 68 |
Macker Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:53:06pm |
re: #61 hokiepride
Actually, Оба́ма and Пелоси are the #2 enemies. #1 being the Islamofascists. Right now, I'd say it's kind of a slow news day for #1.
| 69 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:54:07pm |
re: #52 Killgore Trout
Bug eyed lunatics tilting at windmills.
I can see 'Man of La Mancha' making a revival run on Broadway as we speak.
| 71 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:54:29pm |
re: #61 hokiepride
Charles,
Just my 2c, but don't you think there are more important things that merit the attention of this blog, like the health care debate? If the GOPers keep eating each other, Obama and Pelosi will ram every bit of socialist legislation down our throats. Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones and Glenn Beck are not the GOP's adversaries, Obama and Pelosi are.
As the Little Corporal said, "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." This whole health care debacle is sinking on its own, having had its back snapped in two by the Blue Dog Dems. Now is not the time to get complacent about efforts to drive the GOP even further into irrelevancy.
| 72 |
freetoken Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:54:44pm |
re: #61 hokiepride
Just my 2c, but don't you think there are more important things that merit the attention of this blog, like the health care debate?
What is your strategy for fighting the science czar's plan to put stuff in the water to sterilize you? Don't you care about your precious bodily fluids?
| 73 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:55:14pm |
re: #62 ArchangelMichael
Wasn't it the Birchers who started the "Fluoridation Mandrake!" bullshit?
alex is talking about Holdren.
| 74 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:55:34pm |
re: #64 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
My worry is that there's not enough time for them to boil it down sufficiently before 2010. Worse, that in the process, more Repub Congress critters may think the whacko crowd is a vote mine worth venturing into, driving more moderate voters into the arms of the Dem Party.
My take is that the folks in the House pretty closely resemble their constituency. They are not "driving", they are along for the ride.
That is what made Newt's mini revolution so interesting, he got the locals to rally around a National message. Unusual. Probably won't happen again.
| 75 |
SteveC Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:56:19pm |
re: #57 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I don't know. Starfleet uniforms, perhaps? He's afraid of redshirts coming to take him away?
Big deal. Don't they always knock off at least one redshirt?
| 76 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:56:28pm |
re: #61 hokiepride
You could start your own blog. Then we can come over and tell you what topics to post.
| 77 |
freetoken Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:56:51pm |
re: #73 Sharmuta
alex is talking about Holdren.
Yes, and he ripped off Zombie's blog posting without giving Zombie credit.
This is par for Alex.
| 78 |
Neutral President Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:57:01pm |
re: #73 Sharmuta
alex is talking about Holdren.
Who I'm sure is just another in a line of NWO puppetmasters who have been poisoning the Sheeple since Majestic-12 or some shit... according to the Birchers.
| 79 |
solomonpanting Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:57:05pm |
re: #10 Racer X
West Coast Lizards:
Remember to go outside at 8:43 PM PST and watch the ISS float overhead.
Looks like a bright airplane with a light that does not blink. Northwest moving to Southwest.
Thanks for the heads up! It looked liked there was another vehicle leading the ISS--a bit dimmmer but also not blinking.
Also, I saw two shooting stars within 30 seconds of each other.
| 80 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:57:36pm |
re: #74 The Shadow Do
My take is that the folks in the House pretty closely resemble their constituency. They are not "driving", they are along for the ride.
That is what made Newt's mini revolution so interesting, he got the locals to rally around a National message. Unusual. Probably won't happen again.
We really need another Newt in the GOP, a guy in the House or Senate who can stand up and say "Guys, we need to stand on a common platform of fiscal conservatism and balancing the budget, not a scatter shot of what red meat sells back home. Give the people something to come together and agree upon as a whole, rather than a scattered message that only sells in one part of the country."
| 81 |
Racer X Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:59:02pm |
re: #79 solomonpanting
Thanks for the heads up! It looked liked there was another vehicle leading the ISS--a bit dimmmer but also not blinking.
Also, I saw two shooting stars within 30 seconds of each other.
Cool!
I only saw the one shooting star, but I also saw the other satellite.
| 83 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 8:59:31pm |
re: #80 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
We really need another Newt in the GOP, a guy in the House or Senate who can stand up and say "Guys, we need to stand on a common platform of fiscal conservatism and balancing the budget, not a scatter shot of what red meat sells back home. Give the people something to come together and agree upon as a whole, rather than a scattered message that only sells in one part of the country."
Looking for another Newt is like looking for another Reagan. I no see'um.
| 84 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:00:16pm |
re: #74 The Shadow Do
That is what made Newt's mini revolution so interesting, he got the locals to rally around a National message. Unusual. Probably won't happen again.
What about 2006?
That was a national wave of change in voter sentiment for sure.
| 85 |
outsidephilly Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:01:07pm |
| 86 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:01:07pm |
For comparison with Alex Jones:
Here's Father Coughlin speaking against the Federal Reserve and Roosevelt.
"We're through with the sham battle of politicians, and now we're on our own! Unsheathe the sword of your truth!"
| 87 |
cliffster Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:01:29pm |
re: #84 Conservative Moonbat
That is what made Newt's mini revolution so interesting, he got the locals to rally around a National message. Unusual. Probably won't happen again.
What about 2006?
That was a national wave of change in voter sentiment for sure.
And the country has done so well since 2006...
| 88 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:01:32pm |
re: #57 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I don't know. Starfleet uniforms, perhaps? He's afraid of redshirts coming to take him away?
Here's Alex Jones' theme song:
| 89 |
Racer X Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:01:33pm |
If you missed the Space Station floating overhead, you can see it again tomorrow at 9:08 PM PST, and again on Friday.
| 90 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:01:52pm |
re: #77 freetoken
Yes, and he ripped off Zombie's blog posting without giving Zombie credit.
This is par for Alex.
Killgore said it would get picked up by kooks and it did.
| 92 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:01:55pm |
re: #83 The Shadow Do
Looking for another Newt is like looking for another Reagan. I no see'um.
"All politics is local"
- Tip O'Neil (Sr)
| 93 |
MrPaulRevere Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:02:17pm |
re: #47 jaunte
"All these pot-bellied little dwarf new-world order people!"
-- Alex Jones
"Carpet bagging filth from Europe" was my personal favorite ///
| 94 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:02:31pm |
re: #83 The Shadow Do
Looking for another Newt is like looking for another Reagan. I no see'um.
Neither do I. And that's what's really sad about all this, that 15 years later, the Contract with America is a historical footnote and the GOP is right back where it started. What could have been the key to a GOP rein not seen in decades instead became merely a trading of the hat of "Most Fiscally Irresponsible Party."
| 95 |
outsidephilly Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:03:15pm |
| 96 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:03:19pm |
re: #87 cliffster
And the country has done so well since 2006...
That wasn't my point. It was a revolution similar to Newt's which the OP said would never happen again.
| 98 |
idioma Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:04:02pm |
This is getting out of hand! Comparing your political opposition to Hitler only shows that you don't know much about Hitler. Obama wasn't elected on a platform of protecting the purity of our nation's bloodline. Obama has not formed a committee to formulate a "final solution" to "the midwest problem". Hitler wasn't exactly a family man either. These comparisons to Hitler are always baseless when applied to either a Republican or a Democrat.
Bush = Hitler?
Nope, not even close. The last 8 years could have been a lot worse if that were true.
Obama = Hitler?
When our national debt is settled by invading China, then we'll talk. In the meantime this childish name calling doesn't help the GOP win elections.
| 99 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:05:12pm |
re: #61 hokiepride
Charles,
Just my 2c, but don't you think there are more important things that merit the attention of this blog...
Yes, absolutely! This, for example:
| 100 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:05:36pm |
re: #94 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Neither do I. And that's what's really sad about all this, that 15 years later, the Contract with America is a historical footnote and the GOP is right back where it started. What could have been the key to a GOP rein not seen in decades instead became merely a trading of the hat of "Most Fiscally Irresponsible Party."
Ironically, that is the only way back. Forget all the extraneous crap and run on responsible economics. A sure winner. A message without a champion.
| 101 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:05:41pm |
re: #10 Racer X
Thank you! Grabbed the kids & ran outside to look!
| 102 |
cliffster Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:06:16pm |
re: #96 Conservative Moonbat
That wasn't my point. It was a revolution similar to Newt's which the OP said would never happen again.
Your point was different from my point :)
I was opportunistically making the point that since 2006, things have fairly well sucked.
| 103 |
MrPaulRevere Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:06:24pm |
re: #97 jaunte
I strongly suspect "carpet bagging filth from Europe" is thinly veiled anti-semitism, at the risk of stating the obvious.
| 105 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:07:04pm |
re: #99 Charles
I didn't realize they had to wear surgical masks in Congress.
| 106 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:07:24pm |
re: #44 Killgore Trout
Red and black uniforms? What the fuck are these nuts talking about?
The cheerleaders from the school I was teaching at last year, I think. He should relax. I've never seen them do anything more aggressive than yell "Kill St. Mary's!"
| 107 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:07:49pm |
re: #103 MrPaulRevere
It does raise the question of just where he thinks the Joneses hailed from.
| 108 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:07:54pm |
re: #99 Charles
Yes, absolutely! This, for example:
Slogans being shouted at a crowd of turkeys. What was that, a DNC town hall meeting?
| 110 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:08:37pm |
re: #98 idioma
This is getting out of hand! Comparing your political opposition to Hitler only shows that you don't know much about Hitler. Obama wasn't elected on a platform of protecting the purity of our nation's bloodline. Obama has not formed a committee to formulate a "final solution" to "the midwest problem". Hitler wasn't exactly a family man either. These comparisons to Hitler are always baseless when applied to either a Republican or a Democrat.
Bush = Hitler?
Nope, not even close. The last 8 years could have been a lot worse if that were true.
Obama = Hitler?
When our national debt is settled by invading China, then we'll talk. In the meantime this childish name calling doesn't help the GOP win elections.
Yes, Bush ran the US more like George III, minus the same level of insanity, of course.
Obama is not a Hitler, he is acting more like Lenin these days...minus the secret police and all that killing, of course.
/
| 111 |
WindHorse Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:08:41pm |
I saw my sister in that crowd... she was the really loud turkey.
| 112 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:09:28pm |
re: #103 MrPaulRevere
I strongly suspect "carpet bagging filth from Europe" is thinly veiled anti-semitism, at the risk of stating the obvious.
Also listen for 'cosmopolitan'.
| 113 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:09:40pm |
re: #99 Charles
Yes, absolutely! This, for example:
They are all chanting: "Eat more chicken, eat more beef!"
| 114 |
Neutral President Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:09:43pm |
re: #61 hokiepride
Charles,
Just my 2c, but don't you think there are more important things that merit the attention of this blog, like the health care debate? If the GOPers keep eating each other, Obama and Pelosi will ram every bit of socialist legislation down our throats. Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones and Glenn Beck are not the GOP's adversaries, Obama and Pelosi are.
What is it with people who think we can't multitask? Fighting a war on 2 or 3 fronts ok... complaining about moonbats on both the left and right? Apparently no so much.
| 116 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:10:09pm |
re: #80 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Give the people something to come together and agree upon as a whole, rather than a scattered message that only sells in one part of the country
Could we throw in something like "we're not going to take your money and then give you some of it back to make you feel better. We're simply not going to take your money."
'Block grants' to states make me sooo angry.
| 117 |
pat Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:10:45pm |
I know nothing of these individuals, but I assure you senior care will be diminished under the current plan before the House. And it will hasten death. I have read the budget analysis.
| 118 |
SteveC Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:10:53pm |
re: #107 jaunte
It does raise the question of just where he thinks the Joneses hailed from.
Didn't Germany declare war on the Jones boys a few years ago?
/No Ticket!
| 119 |
freetoken Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:11:23pm |
Being concerned about not just my own precious bodily fluids, but those of our fellow fauna, I began to wonder what nefarious plot the Government was hatching for the wild horses, of which Rep. Gohmert spoke so eloquently to Mr. Jones.
After a quick search:
House Passes Wild Horse and Burro Protections
Today, the House voted handily in favor of a bill, H.R. 1018 introduced by Natural Resources Committee Chairman Nick Rahall (D-W.Va.), to provide sweeping new protections for wild horses and burros inhabiting public lands in the West. The vote was 239-185.
Rahall’s bill, known as the Restore Our American Mustangs (ROAM) Act and co-authored by Reps. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.) and Ed Whitfield (R-Ky.), comes in response to woeful mismanagement of wild horses and burros by the federal Bureau of Land Management (BLM). BLM has been rounding up thousands of horses from our public lands, and then adopting out fewer than half of the animals they capture. As a result, BLM is now holding about 31,000 wild horses in captivity, with taxpayers footing the bill. If the program isn’t revamped, there will soon be more wild horses in captivity than in the wild (there are now estimated to be approximately 35,000 horses and burros roaming federal lands in 10 Western states, with a majority of the horses in Nevada and Wyoming).
[...]
I was distressed to see House Republican Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) yet again go down to the floor and assail yet another animal welfare bill. Boehner said it was “an insult” to the American people to consider an animal protection bill during the nation’s economic crisis. This is the same man who opposes every animal protection measure—in good times and bad—that comes up for consideration, including efforts to crack down on dogfighting and cockfighting, to halt the trade in exotic pets, and end the trophy hunting of polar bears. [...]
See also:
| 120 |
Neutral President Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:11:27pm |
re: #118 SteveC
Didn't Germany declare war on the Jones boys a few years ago?
/No Ticket!
"Not that Jones! The other one!"
| 121 |
NY Nana Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:11:47pm |
re: #85 outsidephilly
ah gee, did ya notice he's not married?
No, I get nauseated easily, and didn't take the time to find out! I just assumed it.
| 122 |
SteveC Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:12:48pm |
re: #117 pat
I know nothing of these individuals, but I assure you senior care will be diminished under the current plan before the House. And it will hasten death. I have read the budget analysis.
Chronic Illness care is probably down the tubes, too; replaced by "prevention".
| 123 |
cliffster Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:13:52pm |
re: #116 Van Helsing
Could we throw in something like "we're not going to take your money and then give you some of it back to make you feel better. We're simply not going to take your money."
'Block grants' to states make me sooo angry.
Not much is spelled out explicitly in the Constitution. The fact that any power not specifically given to the Federal government rests with the states is one of those things. Apparently DC populace can completely ignore this without being noticed.
| 124 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:14:31pm |
re: #119 freetoken
I am especially pleased with the burrito provision. I like them, wild or otherwise.
| 125 |
Gus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:15:07pm |
re: #119 freetoken
Being concerned about not just my own precious bodily fluids, but those of our fellow fauna, I began to wonder what nefarious plot the Government was hatching for the wild horses, of which Rep. Gohmert spoke so eloquently to Mr. Jones.
After a quick search:
House Passes Wild Horse and Burro Protections
See also:
Did he actually say something about "condoms for wild horses?" Is he serious? I think the plan is for an injectable contraceptive for the mares.
| 126 |
Mich-again Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:15:49pm |
To the nutjob GOPers who try the line that their opposition from other conservatives is not from "genuine" Republicans, I can say this.
I have only ever pulled the straight ticket GOP lever in a National election. That goes back to 1982. I've always figured no matter who the GOP put out there as the candidate, it would be a better option than whoever the Donkeys threw out there. Dingell and Levin come to mind. But I look at these whacko conspiracy theorists and brain dead ranters and I'm almost embarrassed to be part of the same party.
But I'm not the kind to turn and walk away. I'm more like the guy at the party who tells the asshole to GTFO when everyone else won't. The guy who isn't too shy to tell the old broad with 20 items at the grocery store that she needs to get out of the 12 and under items line. The guy who tells the punk to hike up his drawers cause no one wants to look at his underwear.
So to all the GOPers pumping conspiracy theories and alarmism. Get bent. Go start your own party. GTFO you dipshits.
| 127 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:15:53pm |
re: #118 SteveC
Didn't Germany declare war on the Jones boys a few years ago?
/No Ticket!
Kevin Smith, is that you?
/Dogma reference
| 128 |
SteveC Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:15:59pm |
re: #125 Gus 802
Did he actually say something about "condoms for wild horses?" Is he serious? I think the plan is for an injectable contraceptive for the mares.
Trojans for Stallions!
| 129 |
freetoken Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:16:15pm |
re: #124 The Shadow Do
Rep. Gohmert raises the horrifying spectacle that your Government may want that a condom be placed on that burrito...
| 130 |
Gus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:16:45pm |
| 131 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:17:18pm |
re: #98 idioma
This is getting out of hand! Comparing your political opposition to Hitler only shows that you don't know much about Hitler. Obama wasn't elected on a platform of protecting the purity of our nation's bloodline. Obama has not formed a committee to formulate a "final solution" to "the midwest problem". Hitler wasn't exactly a family man either. These comparisons to Hitler are always baseless when applied to either a Republican or a Democrat.
Bush = Hitler?
Nope, not even close. The last 8 years could have been a lot worse if that were true.
Obama = Hitler?
When our national debt is settled by invading China, then we'll talk. In the meantime this childish name calling doesn't help the GOP win elections.
The aggravating part is that it really downplays and dilutes the horror of the Hitler regime and the Holocaust. It downplays the evil of that man. Yes I gave this same speech on DailyKos when people pulled out the Bush=Hitler lines.
It's similar with the "Obama is a Maxist" or "Obama is a Communist" schtick. No he's not. He's a progressive democrat. Calling him a Marxist or Communist downplays what as gigantic global clusterfuck applied Communism and revolutionary Marxism made of the world. It's just not the same thing. If you want to push it he's a social democrat, but as fairly centrist one at that.
Don't downplay past evils by comparing them to Obama. It's disrespectful to the millions upon millions of people who died under such regimes.
| 133 |
idioma Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:17:23pm |
re: #110 Desert Dog
Yes, Bush ran the US more like George III, minus the same level of insanity, of course.
Obama is not a Hitler, he is acting more like Lenin these days...minus the secret police and all that killing, of course.
/
Quit Stalin, and get to the point.
| 134 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:17:38pm |
re: #125 Gus 802
Did he actually say something about "condoms for wild horses?" Is he serious? I think the plan is for an injectable contraceptive for the mares.
The good news is you have a new government job...
| 137 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:18:00pm |
re: #125 Gus 802
Did he actually say something about "condoms for wild horses?" Is he serious? I think the plan is for an injectable contraceptive for the mares.
This wil create a need for wild horse condom technicians. Will these be green jobs?
Will it pay well?
Is this something GM employees can be retrained for?
| 138 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:18:30pm |
re: #119 freetoken
If he's so concerned about our money perhaps he should vote for reform so we're not paying to shelter to wild horses. Good grief!
| 139 |
Gus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:18:31pm |
re: #134 jaunte
The good news is you have a new government job...
As long as it doesn't involve a long disposable plastic glove -- I might be interested. /
| 140 |
freetoken Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:18:55pm |
re: #132 WindHorse
(ahem) I think he said "condiment"...
Ah yes... the 700 million dollar "condiment" program...
| 142 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:19:58pm |
re: #119 freetoken
I have seen wild horses in a few parts of AZ...some not far from my house. The BLM has squandered and mismanaged these beautiful animals for years. So, what is the solution? Another government program? I want funding for these animals and I favored the reintroduction of the Grey wolves back into the wild as well. I wish the congress could sit down and do something constructive for a change. Instead, we get endless political infighting from both sides.
| 143 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:19:59pm |
re: #129 freetoken
Rep. Gohmert raises the horrifying spectacle that your Government may want that a condom be placed on that burrito...
Ain't no gubmint guy puttin no condominium on my burrito and I'm tellin ya that right here and now!
| 144 |
Gus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:20:34pm |
re: #137 The Shadow Do
This wil create a need for wild horse condom technicians. Will these be green jobs?
Will it pay well?
Is this something GM employees can be retrained for?
Looks like it's part of “Restore Our American Mustangs Act.”
| 145 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:20:37pm |
re: #116 Van Helsing
Could we throw in something like "we're not going to take your money and then give you some of it back to make you feel better. We're simply not going to take your money."
'Block grants' to states make me sooo angry.
I think the GOP should start pushing tax cuts again, but put them in opposition to the "stimulus bill," as in "If Obama had cut taxes, as we suggested in the first place, we might have seen some economic improvement by now, rather than watching unemployment creep up past 9%, when the 'stimulus bill' promised it would level out at 8%."
| 146 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:21:09pm |
re: #123 cliffster
Not much is spelled out explicitly in the Constitution. The fact that any power not specifically given to the Federal government rests with the states is one of those things. Apparently DC populace can completely ignore this without being noticed.
I noticed, and I'm not a brilliant Constitutional scholar or lawyer or any such creature.
| 147 |
SteveC Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:21:20pm |
re: #143 The Shadow Do
Ain't no gubmint guy puttin no condominium on my burrito and I'm tellin ya that right here and now!
Housing market is down, condominiums are cheap and plentiful...!
| 148 |
WindHorse Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:21:55pm |
re: #140 freetoken
Congress doesn't just want Burros with good taste...
| 149 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:22:20pm |
re: #125 Gus 802
Did he actually say something about "condoms for wild horses?" Is he serious? I think the plan is for an injectable contraceptive for the mares.
I'm actually OK with contraceptives for wild burros (aka wild jackasses). But would like to ask for some additional space to build two new pens for a few more wild jackasses.
Contents of Pen #1 (Jackass Dems):
Nancy Pelosi
Babara Boxer
Dick Durbin
Contents of Pen #2 (Talk show jackasses):
Glen Beck
Alex Jones
Randi Rhodes
Feel free to chime in with more suggestions for the jackass roundup!
| 150 |
NY Nana Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:22:28pm |
re: #117 pat
I am a Type II diabetic on insulin, and also physically disabled...and NY Grampa is also a Type II, but happily he is on no meds...we are 71, and never in all our lives did we ever expect anything like Obama the socialist/commie to be our President.
I am terrified of what his 'plan' would mean for all seniors, but especially with people like us...we cost too much the The One, and are going to be ordered to get on an ice floe, and get off in Alaska.
And anyone, of any age, that is chronically ill...we are a liability here, in the country of the new USSR.
And he has been the Dictator for only a little more than 6 months, and has done so much damage in so little time.
| 151 |
SteveC Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:22:36pm |
re: #146 Van Helsing
I noticed, and I'm not a brilliant Constitutional scholar or lawyer or any such creature.
Neither is President Obama, though he plays one on TV.
| 152 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:22:42pm |
re: #133 idioma
Quit Stalin, and get to the point.
I've got the Trotsky's tonight...sorry, it must have been all that government cheese Mrs. Desert Dog has been hording in our emergency shelter.
| 153 |
SteveC Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:24:00pm |
re: #150 NY Nana
I am a Type II diabetic on insulin, and also physically disabled...and NY Grampa is also a Type II, but happily he is on no meds...we are 71, and never in all our lives did we ever expect anything like Obama the socialist/commie to be our President.
I am terrified of what his 'plan' would mean for all seniors, but especially with people like us...we cost too much the The One, and are going to be ordered to get on an ice floe, and get off in Alaska.
And anyone, of any age, that is chronically ill...we are a liability here, in the country of the new USSR.
And he has been the Dictator for only a little more than 6 months, and has done so much damage in so little time.
Speak the Truth!
| 154 |
Gus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:24:07pm |
re: #149 Dark_Falcon
I'm actually OK with contraceptives for wild burros (aka wild jackasses). But would like to ask for some additional space to build two new pens for a few more wild jackasses.
Contents of Pen #1 (Jackass Dems):
Nancy Pelosi
Babara Boxer
Dick DurbinContents of Pen #2 (Talk show jackasses):
Glen Beck
Alex Jones
Randi RhodesFeel free to chime in with more suggestions for the jackass roundup!
With that list I say we go all out and fund a spaying and neutering program. /
| 155 |
cliffster Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:24:16pm |
re: #150 NY Nana
The damage hasn't been done just yet. Don't throw in the towel prematurely
| 156 |
Ojoe Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:25:35pm |
re: #11 Erik The Red
Join the whigs. I joined. It is not even a new party. Both major parties are nuts.
Modern Whig Party
"WHO ARE MODERN WHIGS?
Established in 1833, the Whigs are one of America's oldest mainstream political parties. We were the original party of Abraham Lincoln and four other U.S. Presidents.
Revived by Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, the grassroots movement has quickly attracted tens of thousands of members. We represent moderate voters from all walks of life who cherry-pick between traditional Democratic and Republican ideals in what has been called the Modern Whig Philosophy.
This includes general principles of fiscal responsibility, strong national defense and educational/scientific advancement."
(more on the link above)
Good Night All.
| 157 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:26:20pm |
re: #21 ArchangelMichael
A portion of the GOP seems to conveniently forgot that since his venom is directed at Obama now.
Exactly.
Alex Jones? Oh, he's okay now since he hates Obama.
Colin Powell? STONE THE HERETIC! RINO!
| 158 |
bosforus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:26:52pm |
OT
I see there have been quite a few changes around here on the site since I last frequented. It's lookin' good if I may say so! Format. Tools. Flow. It's all good.
| 159 |
subsailor68 Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:26:54pm |
Evening all! It's so good to see friends here. Just checking in actually.
I don't really know how to contribute to one side or the other of this topic. I wish I did. Passions run high when people have a principled stance on an issue.
The topic concerns a Texas rep making a fool of himself. As a Texan, I can only say: "hell friends, if you want foolishness, you'll have to get in line."
As an old Texan, all I can say is that I trust the American people to make mistakes. I'm not that sanguine about elected representative figuring that gives them the right to do the same!
| 160 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:26:58pm |
re: #150 NY Nana
Nana, you are just going to have to take that blue pill. You'll be fine. A government councilor will be by soon to be sure that you are...
/reform is a new rendition of the word f***d
| 161 |
MrPaulRevere Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:27:21pm |
Ed Morrisey has 1213 comments on thread slamming the nirthers, I can picture the keyboards on fire...
| 162 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:27:39pm |
re: #154 Gus 802
With that list I say we go all out and fund a spaying and neutering program. /
Too late: Most of them have already reproduced.
| 163 |
Racer X Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:27:50pm |
re: #151 SteveC
Neither is President Obama, though he plays one on TV.
It took Obama 4 months to pick out a dog! He wants to get healthcare passed immediately?
| 164 |
NY Nana Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:27:54pm |
re: #153 SteveC
Speak the Truth!
That is seriously how I was brought up.
And G-d bless you for your work educating people about kids with heart problems...your son has quite a Dad.
| 165 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:28:23pm |
re: #157 iceweasel
Exactly.
Alex Jones? Oh, he's okay now since he hates Obama.
Colin Powell? STONE THE HERETIC! RINO!
Yes- suddenly alex jones is miss precious perfect. Never mind the troofer crap.
| 166 |
Gus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:29:11pm |
re: #157 iceweasel
Exactly.
Alex Jones? Oh, he's okay now since he hates Obama.
Colin Powell? STONE THE HERETIC! RINO!
Oddly enough I think that Alex Jones is going to attract a lot of converts to his cause. It'll come in the form of, "well that Jones fellow, he ain't half bad."
| 167 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:29:20pm |
re: #161 MrPaulRevere
Ed Morrisey has 1213 comments on thread slamming the nirthers, I can picture the keyboards on fire...
Do they hate him now as much as they hate allahpundit?
| 168 |
Last Mohican Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:29:39pm |
re: #61 hokiepride
Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones and Glenn Beck are not the GOP's adversaries, Obama and Pelosi are.
Quite the contrary. Obama and Pelosi are doing everything they can to hand congress back to the GOP in 2010. And Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones, and Glenn Beck are making sure that the GOP never wins the congress or the presidency back again.
| 169 |
pat Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:30:06pm |
re: #150 NY Nana
In Britain, cancer treatment is now withheld for those beyond 75 years. I don't think most Americans understand that much(not all) of the discrepancy in longevity stats is due to the fact that only America counts ALL live deliveries, including preemies, as live birth if they make it out breathing. Other countries have time periods. This causes a statistically significant decrease in apparent American longevity. When adjusted, America is only surpassed by a couple of countries, most notably Japan.
| 170 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:30:55pm |
re: #168 Last Mohican
Quite the contrary. Obama and Pelosi are doing everything they can to hand congress back to the GOP in 2010. And Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones, and Glenn Beck are making sure that the GOP never wins the congress or the presidency back again.
Let's vote for "None of the Above" next time like Richard Pryor did in Brewster's Millions.
Both parties suck right now...and suck bad.
| 171 |
Gus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:30:59pm |
| 172 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:31:09pm |
re: #165 Sharmuta
Yes- suddenly alex jones is miss precious perfect. Never mind the troofer crap.
How can anyone sane ignore the stink?
| 173 |
MrPaulRevere Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:31:48pm |
re: #167 Sharmuta
From the first page of comments: "Ed, this is just plain stupid. You should be ashamed of yourself.
But, good job supporting The Precedent by smearing those of us who understand the Constitution. I think the NYT and Media Matters will be giving you guys more kudos,..."
| 174 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:31:53pm |
re: #163 Racer X
It took Obama 4 months to pick out a dog! He wants to get healthcare passed immediately?
The selection of first dog is critical. It is a lesson in how we too shall be selected for salvation given the vision of the won. A teaching moment, as it were.
| 175 |
idioma Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:31:59pm |
re: #150 NY Nana
I am a Type II diabetic on insulin, and also physically disabled...and NY Grampa is also a Type II, but happily he is on no meds...we are 71, and never in all our lives did we ever expect anything like Obama the socialist/commie to be our President.
I am terrified of what his 'plan' would mean for all seniors, but especially with people like us...we cost too much the The One, and are going to be ordered to get on an ice floe, and get off in Alaska.
And anyone, of any age, that is chronically ill...we are a liability here, in the country of the new USSR.
And he has been the Dictator for only a little more than 6 months, and has done so much damage in so little time.
Have you actually ever been to a communist country? I have. Dictator? Really? Obama won the election, you might not like it, and maybe you voted against him, but he did win the popular and electoral vote, that's not very dictatorish of him.
I don't know about your exact circumstances, but my grandparents aren't exactly rolling in medical benefits at the moment either, and both parties are to blame. After debating national health care since at least the Carter Admin, isn't a little bit sill to pin the tale on the Donkey now? Reagan, and two Bush presidencies later and we still don't have satisfaction, but now Obama is a dictator and a communist that wants seniors to be left in the cold? Sorry, I'm not buying it.
| 176 |
Mich-again Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:32:11pm |
re: #145 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Raising taxes during a recession is not going to help matters in any scenario. It almost seems dumb to even have to point that out, but that is exactly what our elected officials have all gotten together and decided to do. Whats next? Price controls I'm guessing. If a government is dumb enough to raise taxes during a recession they must be dumb enough to try price controls too. Then will follow rationing.
| 177 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:32:36pm |
I don't think it's a secret plan. It's going to be a consequence of the plan. It's not be design but by operation.
| 178 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:32:47pm |
re: #158 bosforus
Good to see you around again. People come and go so much. It's hard to keep track.
| 179 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:33:00pm |
re: #172 jaunte
How can anyone sane ignore the stink?
Does he raise money and give it political figures?
| 180 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:33:06pm |
re: #172 jaunte
How can anyone sane ignore the stink?
You might have answered your own question. I think "sane" is the sticking point.
| 181 |
pat Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:33:59pm |
Obama: "You got your red pill and your blue pill. We suggest you take the red pill. We are out of the blue. And if your pace maker is wonky, you won't know it. And we don't do pacemakers for the elderly. Just members of the government and Congress"
| 182 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:34:05pm |
re: #180 Sharmuta
You see right through my cleverly hidden qualifier.
| 183 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:34:12pm |
re: #169 pat
In Britain, cancer treatment is now withheld for those beyond 75 years. I don't think most Americans understand that much(not all) of the discrepancy in longevity stats is due to the fact that only America counts ALL live deliveries, including preemies, as live birth if they make it out breathing. Other countries have time periods. This causes a statistically significant decrease in apparent American longevity. When adjusted, America is only surpassed by a couple of countries, most notably Japan.
If you compensate for the violent deaths and increased deaths from auto accidents that seem to the plague the USA, we are one of the highest in the world.
Our healthcare system needs help, that is for sure. But, the most expensive parts are at the end of life...where the government is already handling the majority of the insured. If Obama gets his healthcare through, we are looking at a disaster.
| 184 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:34:31pm |
re: #176 Mich-again
Raising taxes during a recession is not going to help matters in any scenario. It almost seems dumb to even have to point that out, but that is exactly what our elected officials have all gotten together and decided to do. Whats next? Price controls I'm guessing. If a government is dumb enough to raise taxes during a recession they must be dumb enough to try price controls too. Then will follow rationing.
Thankfully, we have the Blue Dog Dems to do the job the GOP hasn't the balls to do anymore, namely look at a bill and ask "Will this help the country?," rather than "Will this win me votes?"
| 185 |
bosforus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:36:30pm |
re: #178 Killgore Trout
Good to see you around again. People come and go so much. It's hard to keep track.
Thanks, Killgore. Earlier this year I had a project at work that required me to drive every mile of every state route in Utah. Both directions. Naturally, my work-time LGF time suffered. That ended about two months ago but I've been in a non-LGF funk for quite some time now. Perhaps it's time to get out of the rut. I trust the puns, weet dreams, and lgf2 bashing has not diminished any.
| 186 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:37:03pm |
re: #184 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Thankfully, we have the Blue Dog Dems to do the job the GOP hasn't the balls to do anymore, namely look at a bill and ask "Will this help the country?," rather than "Will this win me votes?"
Don't look to the Blue Dogs. They will cave at the first opening, that is for sure.
There will be government health care, that is a given. The only question now is just how bad it will be.
Elections have consequences, trite but true.
| 187 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:37:13pm |
re: #173 MrPaulRevere
From the first page of comments: "Ed, this is just plain stupid. You should be ashamed of yourself.
But, good job supporting The Precedent by smearing those of us who understand the Constitution. I think the NYT and Media Matters will be giving you guys more kudos,..."
They don't understand the Constitution. Obama is actually upholding the rule of law here. He doesn't have to produce the document. It is on the nirthers to show cause. They haven't.
For Obama to concede and release the long form would be setting a bad legal and political precedent- that if crazy people who don't understand the law shriek loud enough, they will get their way and hold other hostage with these tactics in the future.
| 188 |
Mich-again Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:37:48pm |
re: #184 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Thankfully, we have the Blue Dog Dems to do the job the GOP hasn't the balls to do anymore, namely look at a bill and ask "Will this help the country?," rather than "Will this win me votes?"
Blue Dog Dems. I think I like them. Much more better than the Yellow Dog Dems.
| 189 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:39:12pm |
re: #186 The Shadow Do
Don't look to the Blue Dogs. They will cave at the first opening, that is for sure.
There will be government health care, that is a given. The only question now is just how bad it will be.
Elections have consequences, trite but true.
Very true. But considering the alternative, I think we should thankful for small favors. The Blue Dog Dems are probably the closest we're going to get to a fiscally conservative party for awhile.
| 190 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:39:22pm |
re: #185 bosforus
Thanks, Killgore. Earlier this year I had a project at work that required me to drive every mile of every state route in Utah. Both directions. Naturally, my work-time LGF time suffered. That ended about two months ago but I've been in a non-LGF funk for quite some time now. Perhaps it's time to get out of the rut. I trust the puns, weet dreams, and lgf2 bashing has not diminished any.
That sounds like an interesting drive. Utah has some very beautiful scenery (and some very un-beautiful as well).
| 191 |
pat Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:40:00pm |
re: #184 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I wish you were right, but they have never held together. Blue Dogs will collapse in the end. My fear.
| 192 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:41:23pm |
re: #187 Sharmuta
They don't understand the Constitution. Obama is actually upholding the rule of law here. He doesn't have to produce the document. It is on the nirthers to show cause. They haven't.
For Obama to concede and release the long form would be setting a bad legal and political precedent- that if crazy people who don't understand the law shriek loud enough, they will get their way and hold other hostage with these tactics in the future.
He would be crazy to show anything now. He will milk this for all it's worth. This stupidity is eating away at the Republicans and make them look pretty pathetic. And, seeing as I am a lifelong party member, that makes me mad and sad.
| 193 |
bosforus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:41:32pm |
re: #190 Desert Dog
That sounds like an interesting drive. Utah has some very beautiful scenery (and some very un-beautiful as well).
It was extremely beautiful. Mid-winter to spring in Utah is pretty just about anywhere you go. Everything that wasn't within 50-100 miles of Nevada was gorgeous. No offense intended to those from the Silver State.
| 194 |
Racer X Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:41:56pm |
re: #174 The Shadow Do
The selection of first dog is critical. It is a lesson in how we too shall be selected for salvation given the vision of the won. A teaching moment, as it were.
The teaching moment with the dog? Obama originally promised he would rescue a dog from the pound. What dog did he get? A Portuguese Water Dog purchased from a breeder. That taught me something alright.
| 195 |
WindHorse Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:42:30pm |
re: #187 Sharmuta
it would also completely take the wind out of a lot of people's sails... (which really makes me wonder why he doesn't... it would seem that he really could benefit from this right now)
| 196 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:42:39pm |
re: #188 Mich-again
Blue Dog Dems. I think I like them. Much more better than the Yellow Dog Dems.
Blue Dogs are Nancy Pelosi in conservative drag. They got elected. They will not, however, stand up against their Party when push comes to shove. People voting for these cancers are only deceiving themselves when they do so. They can safely say they are bipartisan and independent. They are tools.
| 197 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:42:44pm |
re: #191 pat
I wish you were right, but they have never held together. Blue Dogs will collapse in the end. My fear.
True, but I don't think the collapse will be totally catastrophic. They know 2010 is around the corner and 2012 isn't much father away after that. And the party as a whole cannot right now afford to lose one house or even a significant advantage in one house to the GOP. If they were to successfully take even a few seats in the Senate, they'd wipe out Obama's (admittedly laughable at the moment) 60 seat supermajority. And it'd make House negotiations all the more difficult when you can't pass bills by just sweet-talking a handful of Republicans across the aisle.
| 198 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:43:50pm |
re: #194 Racer X
The teaching moment with the dog? Obama originally promised he would rescue a dog from the pound. What dog did he get? A Portuguese Water Dog purchased from a breeder. That taught me something alright.
That just continues his normal behavior - exemplified by his turning on his promise to use public campaign financing. Right up until he found that people would throw gobs of cash at him.
| 199 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:44:45pm |
re: #187 Sharmuta
They don't understand the Constitution. Obama is actually upholding the rule of law here. He doesn't have to produce the document. It is on the nirthers to show cause. They haven't.
For Obama to concede and release the long form would be setting a bad legal and political precedent- that if crazy people who don't understand the law shriek loud enough, they will get their way and hold other hostage with these tactics in the future.
Not only that-- does anyone really think that releasing the long form would shut the nirthers up? They're far beyond reality. The demands for Obama's long form aren't about that at all; they're expressions of a rage that Obama's been elected at all and a deep belief that he is, in some way, not one of us. The nirthers aren't consciously aware of this, but that's what's going on.
Their demands can't be placated, and they'll only move the goal posts. Look at this little gem I found at WingNut Daily just today:
Obama has not released his kindergarten records, Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, files from his years as an Illinois state senator, Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records and his adoption records.
It's not about the birth certificate. The demands will go on.
| 200 |
NY Nana Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:44:58pm |
G'nite, Lizards. I am off to sleep, as I have been unable to go out for nearly 11 or 12 weeks...they are re-doing the sidewalk out in front of our building, and I am unable for some reason, to walk a flight of stairs. That is why I have not been posting very much. I am in pain most of the day, and sometimes the night, and the worst part is that I cannot get to my Orthopedic surgeon, Radiologist, or my Endocrinologist.
We went to take care of our almost-3 year old grandson in Brooklyn as it was our daughter and son in law's 5th anniversary. We came home late, and I had not one pain. I went to sleep, and woke up in the AM with incredible pain. I had not a clue as to what was ahead. No medication has worked, and I just hope I will wake up in the morning and the pain will be gone for enough time for me to get out of this place to have tests done.
I am an RN, but do not have a clue as to what is happening, but I wish it would leave the building already! And poor NY Grampa has to put up with me!
I think this is the earliest that I have gone to sleep in years!
Sweet dreams!
| 201 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:45:08pm |
re: #192 Desert Dog
He would be crazy to show anything now. He will milk this for all it's worth. This stupidity is eating away at the Republicans and make them look pretty pathetic. And, seeing as I am a lifelong party member, that makes me mad and sad.
I imagine that if this was a republican president we would see support for Obama's position because he is following the law, and this would be bad precedent. This is what happens when party trumps critical thinking.
| 202 |
subsailor68 Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:45:08pm |
re: #175 idioma
Have you actually ever been to a communist country? I have. Dictator? Really? Obama won the election, you might not like it, and maybe you voted against him, but he did win the popular and electoral vote, that's not very dictatorish of him.
I don't know about your exact circumstances, but my grandparents aren't exactly rolling in medical benefits at the moment either, and both parties are to blame. After debating national health care since at least the Carter Admin, isn't a little bit sill to pin the tale on the Donkey now? Reagan, and two Bush presidencies later and we still don't have satisfaction, but now Obama is a dictator and a communist that wants seniors to be left in the cold? Sorry, I'm not buying it.
Fair enough. What are you willing to buy?
| 203 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:45:22pm |
re: #194 Racer X
The teaching moment with the dog? Obama originally promised he would rescue a dog from the pound. What dog did he get? A Portuguese Water Dog purchased from a breeder. That taught me something alright.
Yes, my sarcasm was deficient in its dripping. I will work harder at it.
/...and the water dog he rode in on
| 204 |
Racer X Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:45:44pm |
re: #198 Van Helsing
That just continues his normal behavior - exemplified by his turning on his promise to use public campaign financing. Right up until he found that people would throw gobs of cash at him.
Obama teaching moment #21:
Do as I say, not as I do. And I can change my mind at any time if I feel like it.
I won.
| 205 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:46:04pm |
re: #197 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
True, but I don't think the collapse will be totally catastrophic. They know 2010 is around the corner and 2012 isn't much father away after that. And the party as a whole cannot right now afford to lose one house or even a significant advantage in one house to the GOP. If they were to successfully take even a few seats in the Senate, they'd wipe out Obama's (admittedly laughable at the moment) 60 seat supermajority. And it'd make House negotiations all the more difficult when you can't pass bills by just sweet-talking a handful of Republicans across the aisle.
True. The Blue Dogs are not a roadblock for Obama, but they might be a speed bump. They might force any bill to be watered-down enough as to no longer be deadly.
| 206 |
Racer X Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:47:03pm |
re: #203 The Shadow Do
Yes, my sarcasm was deficient in its dripping. I will work harder at it.
/...and the water dog he rode in on
You're OK - I got it. I was just expounding on your sarc.
| 207 |
Last Mohican Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:48:16pm |
Great. Now Colin Powell is weighing in on "Skip" Gates.
| 208 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:48:29pm |
re: #205 Dark_Falcon
True. The Blue Dogs are not a roadblock for Obama, but they might be a speed bump. They might force any bill to be watered-down enough as to no longer be deadly.
And that really is the only thing we can hope for right now. While Nancy and Harry may publicly pitch a fit, they know the Blue Dogs are not something they can simply throw away at will. Keeping both houses in 2010 and even increasing their majorities is not only desirable, but the key to winning the presidency again in 2012. If either house goes Red or becomes a log-jam for Obama's policies, then it's gonna be Carter all over again. Hell, it's already Carter now and they can't really afford for it to get much worse if they want to hold onto the White House.
| 209 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:49:00pm |
re: #175 idioma
Have you actually ever been to a communist country? I have. Dictator? Really? Obama won the election, you might not like it, and maybe you voted against him, but he did win the popular and electoral vote, that's not very dictatorish of him.
I don't know about your exact circumstances, but my grandparents aren't exactly rolling in medical benefits at the moment either, and both parties are to blame. After debating national health care since at least the Carter Admin, isn't a little bit sill to pin the tale on the Donkey now? Reagan, and two Bush presidencies later and we still don't have satisfaction, but now Obama is a dictator and a communist that wants seniors to be left in the cold? Sorry, I'm not buying it.
Hyperbole on Nana's part, but what will you say when benefits for the elderly are cut? What will you say when rationing hits close to you or your family? If we are to put our faith and future into the hands of the government, that is what you will get. He is denying it now, but Obama's plan leads to a single payer system that will alter the way healthcare is delivered to people here in the USA.
Funding for Medicare and Medicaid has increased under EVERY President since it was started by LJB. We have throw hundreds of billions into that system. Bush gave us the unsustainable Drug Benefit. The fact that politicians have tried to "fix" the healthcare of this country is precisely the problem with healthcare in this country. And now, we are to put ALL of our healthcare into a similar system. My parents (73 & 76) are both lifelong Democrats and are both terrified of what is in their future.
| 210 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:49:22pm |
re: #184 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Thankfully, we have the Blue Dog Dems to do the job the GOP hasn't the balls to do anymore, namely look at a bill and ask "Will this help the country?," rather than "Will this win me votes?"
I'm rather pleased with the stance my personal blue dog, Jim Cooper has been taking (yay on public plan, nay on employer mandates, nay on tax hikes targeted at the wealthy). He's been unchallenged for a while but I'll volunteer for him in the future if need be.
I think Max Baccus is more concerned with appearing bipartisan and sucking off the insurance companies that gave him $1.5 million than actually fixing anything. He's a slimeball.
I still thing single payer would work better than anything else, people would like it more, and it would save more money than anything else. I think congress was stupid for leaving it off the table. It's drastic, but I'd almost rather see a plan that puts the insurance companies out of business and replaces them with mandatory individual savings plans or something. Just get rid of the health insurance industy.
| 211 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:50:10pm |
re: #195 WindHorse
it would also completely take the wind out of a lot of people's sails... (which really makes me wonder why he doesn't... it would seem that he really could benefit from this right now)
Why take the wind out of their sails when they're destroying their own credibility? And as iDub pointed out- it still wouldn't stop the lunacy. They would only want more and wouldn't be convinced anyways. We don't want our elected officials to cave to conspiracy theorists. Imagine if Bush had tried to deal with troofers. Best to let them carry on and prove themselves morons.
| 212 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:50:22pm |
re: #207 Last Mohican
Great. Now Colin Powell is weighing in on "Skip" Gates.
Here's part of what he said:
Gen. Colin Powell says that Harvard Professor Henry Louis "Skip" Gates could have avoided arrest and the ensuing controversy by just talking calmly to Cambridge, Mass., Police Sgt. James Crowley and coming outside his house."I'm saying Skip, perhaps in this instance, might have waited a while, come outside, talked to the officer and that might have been the end of it," Powell says in an interview with Larry King.[Link: www.politicsdaily.com...]
That doesn't sound unreasonable.
| 213 |
Gus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:50:47pm |
re: #205 Dark_Falcon
True. The Blue Dogs are not a roadblock for Obama, but they might be a speed bump. They might force any bill to be watered-down enough as to no longer be deadly.
Not a roadblock, just the occasional DINOmyte on the road.
//
| 214 |
cliffster Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:50:59pm |
re: #210 Conservative Moonbat
Yeah, capitalism, freedom, that's all stupid.
| 215 |
Render Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:51:22pm |
Alex Jones is Rush Limbaugh on a really bad acid flashback, twenty years after the trip. Has anybody ever seen the two of them in the same place and time?
Will any conservative remember the way he bullied and threatened Michelle Malkin, openly and in broad daylight, in front of hundreds of witnesses and recorded by dozens of cameras, Alex Freak Jones called for Malkin to be lynched.
Now all of a sudden TroofermanJones is a Republican? WhenTH did that happen? Did JewHatingJones vote for McCain or something else vaguely Republican? I'd be stunned if he actually did vote, doing so would expose even more of his fantasies, hypocrisies, and lies about this nation, its people, and our government. Wouldn't it?
Insanity is not a justification.
SHUNNED,
R
| 216 |
Last Mohican Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:52:59pm |
re: #212 jaunte
That doesn't sound unreasonable.
No, it doesn't sound unreasonable, and I'll credit him for that. But this does sound unreasonable:
"There is no African-American in this county who has not been exposed to this kind of situation," Powell said. "Do you get angry? Yes. Do you manifest that anger? Do you protest? Do you try to get things fixed? But it's the better course of action to try and take it easy and don't let your anger make the current situation worse."
In other words, yes, Gates was being "profiled," Crowley was a racist, and every single other black person in America has also been "profiled" by the police.
| 217 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:53:12pm |
| 219 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:53:27pm |
re: #186 The Shadow Do
.
There will be government health care, that is a given. The only question now is just how bad it will be.
.
If it's not single payer it will be bullshit. It won't be single payer, ergo it will be billshit.
Twenty years from now conservatives will be able to say ""see we tried government healthcare and it didn't work" all because the left was two numb-nutted to take one issue that mattered and be leftists about it.
(sorry, I know this is the wrong forum, but this is one issue where I remain a raging leftist, but a single payer system just makes sense in terms of costs.)
| 220 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:54:06pm |
re: #213 Gus 802
Not a roadblock, just the occasional DINOmyte on the road.
//
You know, that's what's gonna be hilarious about 2010. How much you wanna bet that many of these Blue Dog "DINOs" are gonna face challengers like "Red Ned" Lamont, who swear up and down that Obama's presidency is proof that the country wants more liberal leaders and that anybody who's not totally supportive of Obama is in bed with the GOP?
| 221 |
Gus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:54:31pm |
re: #217 Dark_Falcon
LOL! loves it.
Glad to be of service. I was sitting here mulling my toothache and neck ache and came up with that. ;)
| 222 |
bosforus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:55:17pm |
Sidenote - the last two mornings my state's congressman and attorney general have been filling in for the morning conservative guy from 5-9. Jason Chaffetz (the guy who took the cot to DC a few months back) on Monday and Mark Shurtleff this morning. I thought it was good of them to do that. I enjoyed Chaffetz more, Shurtleff came off as a little awkward, perhaps due in part to the fact that on my drive I catch the segment where the host talks with the producer (the usual host's 24 yr old son) and the late 20's traffic girl who appears on a monitor since she's at the DOT building. Like I said, it was good of them to do it.
| 223 |
WindHorse Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:55:36pm |
re: #211 Sharmuta
Thank you for your response.
But, I have to humbly disagree with your comparison of truthers (who are nuts) and the birthers (who are just ignant).
If I had Obama's ear, I would tell him to slam that long form birth certificate down...
I think it would totally distract the public from Crowley/Gates et al.
And, I think it really would have an affect on Mayor Sam Yorty and the silent majority in terms of credibility...
imho
| 224 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:55:37pm |
re: #216 Last Mohican
I can't speak for every black person in America, but my son has been stopped several times by the police for walking through his own neighborhood because he doesn't match the prevailing color. It does happen.
| 225 |
Gus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:56:58pm |
re: #220 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
You know, that's what's gonna be hilarious about 2010. How much you wanna bet that many of these Blue Dog "DINOs" are gonna face challengers like "Red Ned" Lamont, who swear up and down that Obama's presidency is proof that the country wants more liberal leaders and that anybody who's not totally supportive of Obama is in bed with the GOP?
I think so. Of course the Blue Dogs have always gotten a lot of flak from the Kos-wing of the DNC. This current congressional debate regarding healthcare foretells of greater conflict within the DNC and targeting of Blue Dogs from the leftist factions.
| 226 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:57:15pm |
re: #224 jaunte
Gates' response to Crowley's legitimate questions created the problem, though.
| 227 |
subsailor68 Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:57:31pm |
Interesting discussion tonight. I can only add this to what has come before:
If you are wiling to allow the government the power to govern how and when you should die, you can hardly argue against the government's edits about how you must live.
I, personally, am not ready to allow government to dictate either.
| 228 |
wee fury Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:58:14pm |
A tribute in song for the Blue Dog Democrats.
| 229 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:58:18pm |
re: #208 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
And that really is the only thing we can hope for right now. While Nancy and Harry may publicly pitch a fit, they know the Blue Dogs are not something they can simply throw away at will. Keeping both houses in 2010 and even increasing their majorities is not only desirable, but the key to winning the presidency again in 2012. If either house goes Red or becomes a log-jam for Obama's policies, then it's gonna be Carter all over again. Hell, it's already Carter now and they can't really afford for it to get much worse if they want to hold onto the White House.
Indeed. Well the good news is that the GOP might well be able to make inroads in 2010. And there are some people who are helping make that a possibility. Actually, even though he catches a lot of flack around here, Bill O'Reilly has been doing good work knocking down the nirthers this week. He even went so far as to call the Nirth Cert "story" bogus. Coupled with National Review's denunciation of them, we may finally get enough prestige organized to run the Nirthers off. That would help the GOP cuase immensely.
| 230 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:58:58pm |
re: #214 cliffster
Yeah, capitalism, freedom, that's all stupid.
Under single payer health care providers would still be able to compete for your health care dollar as quality of care and copays would vary and you'd be able to chose your provider on the basis of that. Capitalism would still reign strong. You'd have less taken out of your paycheck than you now while still covering everyone.
| 231 |
BlackFedora Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:59:27pm |
re: #4 Sharmuta
Alex Jones vigorously attacks whoever is in power. That's his default position. That is his schtick. Brain dead Republicans are crawling into bed with him because these days he is attacking the Democrats because they happen to be in power and they think Alex is somehow an ally. Well, crawling into bed with Alex is going to get them a serious dose of the clap because I think a lot of these Republicans have no idea who Alex is or his reputation. Its shameful.
| 232 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:59:39pm |
re: #211 Sharmuta
Why take the wind out of their sails when they're destroying their own credibility? And as iDub pointed out- it still wouldn't stop the lunacy. They would only want more and wouldn't be convinced anyways. We don't want our elected officials to cave to conspiracy theorists. Imagine if Bush had tried to deal with troofers. Best to let them carry on and prove themselves morons.
You got it. And imagine if Democrats had embraced troofers like the GOP and pundits have embraced nirtherism (or at least tolerated it). Sponsering legislation about it? Someone with the stature and audience reach of Lou Dobbs, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh talking about it like it's anything other than the nonsensical ravings of lunatic minds?*
Can you imagine a video of elected Democrat refusing to repudiate troofers and literally running away from the camera, like that video Charles posted of Republicans refusing to repudiate nirtherism? It's insanity. Worse, it's insanity that is being mainstreamed.
*had to work in a Young Frankenstein ref.
| 233 |
Last Mohican Tue, Jul 28, 2009 9:59:41pm |
re: #224 jaunte
I can't speak for every black person in America, but my son has been stopped several times by the police for walking through his own neighborhood because he doesn't match the prevailing color. It does happen.
Absolutely. Frequently, all over America, black people are not only stopped by the police, but sometimes terribly harassed. Even handcuffed and arrested for no good reason at all.
But every African-American in this country has been harassed by the police? No. I just do not believe it. And Powell's accepting as fact that Gates was the victim of racism, when there's absolutely no reason to believe that, is abhorrent.
| 234 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:00:09pm |
re: #210 Conservative Moonbat
I'm rather pleased with the stance my personal blue dog, Jim Cooper has been taking (yay on public plan, nay on employer mandates, nay on tax hikes targeted at the wealthy). He's been unchallenged for a while but I'll volunteer for him in the future if need be.
I think Max Baccus is more concerned with appearing bipartisan and sucking off the insurance companies that gave him $1.5 million than actually fixing anything. He's a slimeball.
I still thing single payer would work better than anything else, people would like it more, and it would save more money than anything else. I think congress was stupid for leaving it off the table. It's drastic, but I'd almost rather see a plan that puts the insurance companies out of business and replaces them with mandatory individual savings plans or something. Just get rid of the health insurance industy.
What other industries should the Central Committee take over and install all knowing and all seeing bureaucrats? We have the People's Banking System, the People's Auto Industry, The People's Energy Industry, next up, the People's Healthcare.
I am sorry I do not share the same faith in the government as you do. I think we should reform what we have, put in a system to help the uninsured get coverage, reform the MESS that is the sections that the government already runs and try and come up with a method to contain the costs without "getting rid of the health insurance industry". What will the millions of people working in that field do after wards? Any ideas? Who will discover the new medicines? Who will want to be a doctor? Who will we complain to when our new government coverage starts sucking bad? An out of touch bureaucrat?
| 235 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:00:19pm |
re: #224 jaunte
I can't speak for every black person in America, but my son has been stopped several times by the police for walking through his own neighborhood because he doesn't match the prevailing color. It does happen.
At times, it can work in reverse. Last week I had not just one, but two police officers stop me because I was walking late at night. Of course- they asked if I was alright, but they're not used to seeing white women walking the streets at 1 am. This also happened to me about 16 years ago too. Same thing- white girl walking at night just doesn't fit the profile.
| 236 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:00:46pm |
re: #233 Last Mohican
The victimhood mentality is everyone's enemy.
| 237 |
subsailor68 Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:00:50pm |
re: #230 Conservative Moonbat
Under single payer health care providers would still be able to compete for your health care dollar as quality of care and copays would vary and you'd be able to chose your provider on the basis of that. Capitalism would still reign strong. You'd have less taken out of your paycheck than you now while still covering everyone.
No.
| 238 |
Racer X Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:01:04pm |
Man, I haven't heard this in about a million years.
| 239 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:01:40pm |
re: #220 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
You know, that's what's gonna be hilarious about 2010. How much you wanna bet that many of these Blue Dog "DINOs" are gonna face challengers like "Red Ned" Lamont, who swear up and down that Obama's presidency is proof that the country wants more liberal leaders and that anybody who's not totally supportive of Obama is in bed with the GOP?
Blue dogs are mostly from southern districts. Lamont was fighting for deleware where it's arguable Lieberman was too conservative for his constituency. I'm one of maybe 5 democrats who actually likes Lieberman btw.
| 240 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:02:02pm |
re: #225 Gus 802
I think so. Of course the Blue Dogs have always gotten a lot of flak from the Kos-wing of the DNC. This current congressional debate regarding healthcare foretells of greater conflict within the DNC and targeting of Blue Dogs from the leftist factions.
The Republicans are not the only party with insane purists. Hopefully, some of the leftist challenges damage the Blue Dogs enough for them to lose to us. I don't want any of the lefties to actually be nominated, since I prefer that all nominees of major parties be sane people.
| 241 |
Last Mohican Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:02:14pm |
re: #235 Sharmuta
At times, it can work in reverse. Last week I had not just one, but two police officers stop me because I was walking late at night. Of course- they asked if I was alright, but they're not used to seeing white women walking the streets at 1 am. This also happened to me about 16 years ago too. Same thing- white girl walking at night just doesn't fit the profile.
Did you ask them "is your mama alright?" and then later threaten to sue them?
| 242 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:02:27pm |
re: #230 Conservative Moonbat
Under single payer health care providers would still be able to compete for your health care dollar as quality of care and copays would vary and you'd be able to chose your provider on the basis of that. Capitalism would still reign strong. You'd have less taken out of your paycheck than you now while still covering everyone.
Do you really believe that? wow...
| 243 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:02:37pm |
re: #238 Racer X
Man, I haven't heard this in about a million years.
Spartacus has com to kiiilll...
Great song.
| 244 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:02:42pm |
re: #225 Gus 802
I think so. Of course the Blue Dogs have always gotten a lot of flak from the Kos-wing of the DNC. This current congressional debate regarding healthcare foretells of greater conflict within the DNC and targeting of Blue Dogs from the leftist factions.
And that's what's really gonna screw them come 2010. Some Blue Dogs will rise to the challenge that they're "in bed with the GOP," try to "out-liberal" the challengers, and win the Dem nomination only to lose to the GOP nominee in the actual election. Or, worse, the liberal challenger will win the nomination and then get his ass spanked by the GOP nominee.
You just watch, it'll happen. And the Left will once again dissolve into accusations of "stolen elections" and whine that the Dem Party wasn't being liberal enough...hey wait a sec, this sounding familiar to anybody?
| 245 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:03:07pm |
re: #235 Sharmuta
I think if people realized that police are trained to examine everything that doesn't fit the expected pattern there would be a lot fewer hurt feelings.
| 246 |
NY Nana Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:03:48pm |
re: #194 Racer X
And it was a gift from Teddy Kennedy. It cost The One zilch, nada, not even a penny.
If The One told me it was a Thursday, I would check at least 10 sources to validate it.
| 247 |
Neutral President Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:03:54pm |
re: #235 Sharmuta
At times, it can work in reverse. Last week I had not just one, but two police officers stop me because I was walking late at night. Of course- they asked if I was alright, but they're not used to seeing white women walking the streets at 1 am. This also happened to me about 16 years ago too. Same thing- white girl walking at night just doesn't fit the profile.
I'm thinkin "eight year-old white girl, out on the street this time of night, middle of the ghetto, bunch of monsters, hangin' around with quantum physics books?!" She's about to start some shit, Zed! I mean, she's only about eight years old, those books are way too advanced for her. So, if you ask me, I'd say she's up to something.
| 248 |
wee fury Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:04:03pm |
re: #245 jaunte
I think if people realized that police are trained to examine everything that doesn't fit the expected pattern there would be a lot fewer hurt feelings.
Spot on.
| 249 |
cliffster Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:04:58pm |
re: #230 Conservative Moonbat
Under single payer health care providers would still be able to compete for your health care dollar as quality of care and copays would vary and you'd be able to chose your provider on the basis of that. Capitalism would still reign strong. You'd have less taken out of your paycheck than you now while still covering everyone.
| 250 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:05:03pm |
re: #232 iceweasel
You got it. And imagine if Democrats had embraced troofers like the GOP and pundits have embraced nirtherism (or at least tolerated it). Sponsering legislation about it? Someone with the stature and audience reach of Lou Dobbs, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh talking about it like it's anything other than the nonsensical ravings of lunatic minds?*
Can you imagine a video of elected Democrat refusing to repudiate troofers and literally running away from the camera, like that video Charles posted of Republicans refusing to repudiate nirtherism? It's insanity. Worse, it's insanity that is being mainstreamed.
*had to work in a Young Frankenstein ref.
The left has it's wackos as well and they ARE the mainstream...still, it bothers me that freaks like this walk the earth and have the same "R" on their voter registration card as mine.
| 251 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:05:22pm |
re: #229 Dark_Falcon
Indeed. Well the good news is that the GOP might well be able to make inroads in 2010. And there are some people who are helping make that a possibility. Actually, even though he catches a lot of flack around here, Bill O'Reilly has been doing good work knocking down the nirthers this week. He even went so far as to call the Nirth Cert "story" bogus. Coupled with National Review's denunciation of them, we may finally get enough prestige organized to run the Nirthers off. That would help the GOP cuase immensely.
While I do agree that O'Reilly can be a pompous douche even on his best days, he does get some things right. And coming down against the nirthers is one of them. But I cannot say I hold the same level of hope that the nirther scare will disappear anytime soon.
| 252 |
Last Mohican Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:05:40pm |
re: #236 jaunte
The victimhood mentality is everyone's enemy.
A friend of mine from college is a member of an "underrepresented minority." Before we all started our freshman year, they invited her to come out early for a week long orientation session, just for minorities. They spent the whole week telling her that nobody likes minorities at our school, that they'll never be able to make any white friends, that they're going to be hated and ostracized for four years, so they'd better get ready for it.
That's not helpful. She was really pissed off by the whole thing.
| 253 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:06:13pm |
re: #248 wee fury
Of course, there is profit in hurt feelings. (See Jones, Alex, for an extreme example).
| 254 |
Render Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:07:02pm |
re: #224 jaunte
I can't begin to tell you how many times I've been stopped for having long hair. Or driving a red hot rod. Or being the only white guy within twenty miles, (glazier doing midnight shift glass storefront board ups during the DC crack wars). Or being the only Jewish kid in the entire school.
I have never, nor will I ever pull a Jerry Springer on "Cops" moment like Gates did. The easier you make that guy with the badge and guns job to do, the easier the rest of your day will be. Assuming you are innocent of the suspicion in question...
There are only two reasons for an outburst like that to go that far. Either he's a freakin loon, or he's got something to hide.
EITHER
OR,
R
| 255 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:07:05pm |
re: #245 jaunte
I think if people realized that police are trained to examine everything that doesn't fit the expected pattern there would be a lot fewer hurt feelings.
What I found funny about it was I've made this same walk for a year and a half now and they've never noticed me before. Suddenly I had two on the same night- I thought it was funny.
| 256 |
idioma Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:07:32pm |
re: #202 subsailor68
Fair enough. What are you willing to buy?
Arguments are best handled by sticking to the actual topic with solid, verifiable facts. Arguments can be based on principle, but there still needs to be verifiable data to support said principle. As a registered voter, and a sensible human being with the capacity for logic and reason, I will not be swayed by inane ramblings regarding our elected president as a "dictator/communist". If you display impartial, peer-reviewed data to support a particular policy, I'll buy it.
Those that ache for a disqualification of the Obama Presidency - Nirthers, I am talking to you - do so because they don't feel comfortable with a black president.
End of story.
For the last 8 years I've had little patients for those ranting mental outpatients that simply did not like Bush - remember BDS? I endured their constant raging torrent of conspiracy theories about 9/11 and sekrit Joooz. Now I have to listen to senior citizens' nostalgia for Jim Crow. If a black president and state sanctioned homosexual monogamy are too much for you to handle, then it won't be diabetes or old age that do you in; your failure to adapt has already signed you off long ago. Living is more than spouting words and shooting cum, it's also about active participation and relevance. The GOP needs to choose its friends more carefully in the future. When they start to make sense again, then maybe I'll lend them an ear, or even vote in their favor.
Rush and Beck need to be taken off of the soap box and replaced by cooler talking heads.
I cannot take them or the GOP seriously right now. It's historically embarrassing to see the party like this.
| 257 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:07:36pm |
re: #252 Last Mohican
Who's running the orientation program?
| 258 |
Racer X Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:07:38pm |
re: #243 Van Helsing
Spartacus has com to kiiilll...
Great song.
Brings back memories I kinda forgot as soon as I had them, if you know what I mean.
| 259 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:08:24pm |
re: #250 Desert Dog
The left has it's wackos as well and they ARE the mainstream...still, it bothers me that freaks like this walk the earth and have the same "R" on their voter registration card as mine.
I have to disagree. I've seen the freaks, and they are not the typical democrat. And I know typical democrats- I'm related to them.
| 260 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:08:32pm |
re: #250 Desert Dog
The left has it's wackos as well and they ARE the mainstream...still, it bothers me that freaks like this walk the earth and have the same "R" on their voter registration card as mine.
I'd never deny that the left has its wackos. The wackos aren't mainstream though.
(This shouldn't be construed as me saying I love the Democratic party though. I do not.)
| 261 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:08:35pm |
re: #254 Render
There are only two reasons for an outburst like that to go that far. Either he's a freakin loon, or he's got something to hide
I vote loon.
| 262 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:08:59pm |
re: #234 Desert Dog
What other industries should the Central Committee take over and install all knowing and all seeing bureaucrats? We have the People's Banking System, the People's Auto Industry, The People's Energy Industry, next up, the People's Healthcare.
I am sorry I do not share the same faith in the government as you do. I think we should reform what we have, put in a system to help the uninsured get coverage, reform the MESS that is the sections that the government already runs and try and come up with a method to contain the costs without "getting rid of the health insurance industry". What will the millions of people working in that field do after wards? Any ideas? Who will discover the new medicines? Who will want to be a doctor? Who will we complain to when our new government coverage starts sucking bad? An out of touch bureaucrat?
Note that I'm not embracing single payer as ideal. I have a lot of problems with it. I do that that it would work, unlike any of the plans floating around congress right now. If they want to pass a plan that works, they should pass a single payer plan. If they don't, they should just go on about their business renaming highways and post offices and not waste billions on a boondoggle that's not going to help anybody.
| 263 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:08:59pm |
re: #258 Racer X
Brings back memories I kinda forgot as soon as I had them, if you know what I mean.
Yes. Yes I do.
| 264 |
Gus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:09:19pm |
On the topic of Skip Gates and racism. Cobb from Cobb Blog has an interesting take on this called "Six Pounds of Racism."
The downside of zero tolerance.
If you watch it through he ends on an unexpected note.
| 265 |
Racer X Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:11:30pm |
| 266 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:11:31pm |
Damn cops harassing me- just for walking while white. I want some money! ///
| 267 |
MrPaulRevere Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:11:56pm |
re: #254 Render
The last time I was pulled over I asked the policeman "how can I help you today?" I strongly suggest it. Personal diplomacy, if you will.
| 268 |
wee fury Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:12:31pm |
re: #255 Sharmuta
The thing is . . . there could have been recent calls to the PD in that neighborhood. Muggings, peeping toms, drug activity, domestic violence, etc. etc.
| 269 |
Last Mohican Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:12:33pm |
re: #257 jaunte
Who's running the orientation program?
I think it was the minority students' association, which was officially recognized and funded by the Dean of Students' office. The indoctrinators were upperclassmen who volunteered to come back from summer vacation early and ruin everyone's freshman year.
It still upsets me, thinking of all those poor hopeful kids, who had just finished all their shopping trips with mom and dad, buying new laundry bins and posters and everything for their new dorms, looking forward to college, and then suddenly being told that everyone is going to hate them and they should never trust anyone who isn't the same color as them.
| 270 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:13:02pm |
re: #262 Conservative Moonbat
Note that I'm not embracing single payer as ideal. I have a lot of problems with it. I do that that it would work, unlike any of the plans floating around congress right now. If they want to pass a plan that works, they should pass a single payer plan. If they don't, they should just go on about their business renaming highways and post offices and not waste billions on a boondoggle that's not going to help anybody.
Here's a thought - LET THE STATES DEAL WITH IT!!!
Sheesh, like we need to add another couple of dozen federal bureaucracies to the mess. Most states already have some kind of 'safety net' insurance. Let them keep some more of their citizen's taxes and deal with it that way.
| 272 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:13:34pm |
re: #210 Conservative Moonbat
It's drastic, but I'd almost rather see a plan that puts the insurance companies out of business and replaces them with mandatory individual savings plans or something. Just get rid of the health insurance industy.
Amazing, just amazing. Hand off health (that would be yours/your life/your self) to government. Eliminate the marketplace and replace it with a central bureaucracy. Brilliant, so many of the world's deficiencies can be mitigated this way.
No offense, but you have a lot of learning to do. You can start with a trip to your County courthouse or, for more advanced studies, go to your State drivers licensing office. Or more simply still, read a book or two on what the effects are on society (that would be you) in a centralized/authoritarian environment.
Maybe 'free' nose drops for your sinus condition are more important to you, but I'm not one to judge that.
Who else would you like to "put out of business"? Who else do you want to "get rid of"?
| 273 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:14:03pm |
re: #269 Last Mohican
That's pretty crappy. I hope their skepticism was developed enough to keep an open mind.
| 274 |
Racer X Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:14:32pm |
re: #267 MrPaulRevere
The last time I was pulled over I asked the policeman "how can I help you today?" I strongly suggest it. Personal diplomacy, if you will.
I have been caught speeding several times over the years. I was exceedingly polite every time. Most times I was let off with a warning.
| 275 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:14:45pm |
| 276 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:14:59pm |
re: #268 wee fury
I was completely fine with the officers checking on me. I could have been in trouble, for all they knew. It's nice to know I live in a community where law enforcement is looking out for women and their safety.
| 277 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:15:05pm |
re: #251 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
While I do agree that O'Reilly can be a pompous douche even on his best days, he does get some things right. And coming down against the nirthers is one of them. But I cannot say I hold the same level of hope that the nirther scare will disappear anytime soon.
O'Reilly is going to have Lou Dobbs on tomorrow. Hopefully, he lays into Dobbs and forces Dobbs to either back down or look foolish. Bill O'Reilly is exactly what we need fora task like that: A loud man capable of getting in a nirther's face and staying there. Dobbs needs to be pressured, and O'Reilly can apply said pressure.
| 278 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:15:10pm |
re: #219 Conservative Moonbat
"Horse hockey"
- Col. Potter
| 279 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:16:10pm |
re: #277 Dark_Falcon
O'Reilly is going to have Lou Dobbs on tomorrow. Hopefully, he lays into Dobbs and forces Dobbs to either back down or look foolish. Bill O'Reilly is exactly what we need fora task like that: A loud man capable of getting in a nirther's face and staying there. Dobbs needs to be pressured, and O'Reilly can apply said pressure.
He's got Lou on there tomorrow night. Shit man, I need to DVR that.
| 280 |
Last Mohican Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:17:12pm |
re: #273 jaunte
That's pretty crappy. I hope their skepticism was developed enough to keep an open mind.
My friend managed to utterly reject everything they said, and to never have anything to with their group again. To her credit. But leaving home for the first time and going off to college is a very vulnerable, impressionable time, and I think most of her peers were probably quite damaged by that program. As were those of us who weren't "underrepresented minorities," and who therefore were deprived of their friendship for four years and for the rest of our lives.
| 281 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:18:04pm |
re: #260 iceweasel
I'd never deny that the left has its wackos. The wackos aren't mainstream though.
(This shouldn't be construed as me saying I love the Democratic party though. I do not.)
Well, I admit I actually agree with you there. I am curious though, you and others on this blog seem so willing to paint/taint the entire Republican Party with these clowns. They are not the mainstream either, not even close. The 59 million or so people that voted for McCain (and against Obama )are not all Nirthers, Birthers, Paulians or JBS nutjobs...neither are the the vast majority of the people that attended the tea party rally's. Perhaps you want them to be, but they are not.
The pendulum swings back and forth in our country, the Republicans will be back in power again one day. We are not going away and the hold the Dems have on the government right now is temporary...
| 282 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:20:00pm |
re: #280 Last Mohican
There are profiteers of all colors who continue to aggravate and promote the victim mentality, and they should be exposed at every opportunity.
| 283 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:22:53pm |
re: #277 Dark_Falcon
O'Reilly is going to have Lou Dobbs on tomorrow. Hopefully, he lays into Dobbs and forces Dobbs to either back down or look foolish. Bill O'Reilly is exactly what we need fora task like that: A loud man capable of getting in a nirther's face and staying there. Dobbs needs to be pressured, and O'Reilly can apply said pressure.
If you haven't seen it, you might enjoy this rant I found (and posted in the spinoffs):
I don't want to appear to be opposing absolute freedom of speech, but there comes a point when, as a personal favor to sane people everywhere and to reduce the level of national embarrassment, I just have to ask the rat-brained social deviants who think there's a great conspiracy to conceal President Obama's real place of birth to please shut the hell up. I realize that they have no personal dignity or common sense, but out of respect for the rest of us who oppose President Obama for legitimate and rational reasons, couldn't they just crawl into a closet somewhere and close the door behind them so we can't hear them mumbling to themselves in the darkness?[Link: www.fontcraft.com...]
| 284 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:23:00pm |
re: #272 The Shadow Do
Who else would you like to "put out of business"? Who else do you want to "get rid of"?
Any other industry involved in killing people for profit.
For profit insurance can either maximize services to the benefit of the patent or the benefit of the stockholder. If they maximize for the benefit of the stockholder (and stockholders could sue if they didn't) you end up with murder by spreadsheet. No more profits over people.
There is no ethical way to provide for-profit healthcare.
| 285 |
idioma Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:23:16pm |
re: #272 The Shadow Do
Amazing, just amazing. Hand off health (that would be yours/your life/your self) to government. Eliminate the marketplace and replace it with a central bureaucracy. Brilliant, so many of the world's deficiencies can be mitigated this way.
No offense, but you have a lot of learning to do. You can start with a trip to your County courthouse or, for more advanced studies, go to your State drivers licensing office. Or more simply still, read a book or two on what the effects are on society (that would be you) in a centralized/authoritarian environment.
Maybe 'free' nose drops for your sinus condition are more important to you, but I'm not one to judge that.
Who else would you like to "put out of business"? Who else do you want to "get rid of"?
You know, I live in a major city and have made five or so trips to the Department of Transportation and Motor Vehicles in the last year. I've never had to wait more than a couple of minutes, the forms were simple and straight forward, the staff was friendly. I am impressed every time by the level of service that I receive, and actually do see my tax dollars at work. I realize that not all states are so well ran, but I do believe that some areas of government work very well. If the trains run on time, you should not complain about the threat they pose to the auto industry, instead you should be asking two questions: Does this system work, and how can we improve it?
Private security firms were not "put out of business" by the municipal police force.
I believe there are meritorious points on both sides of this debate, but please do better than "Private sector good, Government bad". It's not that simple.
| 286 |
WindHorse Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:23:35pm |
anyone who has ever had the police put handcuffs on them and then been placed in the back seat of a cruiser... taken to the station... questioned... badgered... humiliated... etc. would know better than to shoot off one's mouth the next time they were pulled over or questioned on any level.
I think Gates might just not have had that life experience before last week.
/black, white, yellow, purple etc.
| 287 |
theuglydougling Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:24:31pm |
Alex Jones is a fraud raking in the cash peddling BS to the gullible. Based on that criteria is he a "top" commentator?
| 288 |
WindHorse Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:25:06pm |
too bad for him he decided to make this experience (and his mistakes) so public...
| 289 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:26:11pm |
re: #262 Conservative Moonbat
Note that I'm not embracing single payer as ideal. I have a lot of problems with it. I do that that it would work, unlike any of the plans floating around congress right now. If they want to pass a plan that works, they should pass a single payer plan. If they don't, they should just go on about their business renaming highways and post offices and not waste billions on a boondoggle that's not going to help anybody.
I think that the fact that we are seriously discussing the healthcare issue is a good thing. It is something that needs to be dealt with. We will soon have a giant block of baby boomers coming into the medicare system. Under current conditions, we will not be able to afford it. Obama is right in that regard, we cannot sustain this system as it is. My problems are with his solution. Single payer systems look great on paper and sound wonderfully fair. But, you cannot point to a single instance anywhere they have been tried where they actually deliver what was promised. We need an American solution to an American problem. We are a nation of problem solvers and I have faith that our systems, both political and commercial can solve it. I do not have faith that government and government alone can solve it.
| 291 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:27:24pm |
re: #289 Desert Dog
I think that the fact that we are seriously discussing the healthcare issue is a good thing. It is something that needs to be dealt with. We will soon have a giant block of baby boomers coming into the medicare system. Under current conditions, we will not be able to afford it. Obama is right in that regard, we cannot sustain this system as it is. My problems are with his solution. Single payer systems look great on paper and sound wonderfully fair. But, you cannot point to a single instance anywhere they have been tried where they actually deliver what was promised. We need an American solution to an American problem. We are a nation of problem solvers and I have faith that our systems, both political and commercial can solve it. I do not have faith that government and government alone can solve it.
So...when are you running for office? Because you've got my vote.
| 292 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:28:28pm |
re: #284 Conservative Moonbat
Any other industry involved in killing people for profit.
For profit insurance can either maximize services to the benefit of the patent or the benefit of the stockholder. If they maximize for the benefit of the stockholder (and stockholders could sue if they didn't) you end up with murder by spreadsheet. No more profits over people.
There is no ethical way to provide for-profit healthcare.
Wow, there is an unexpected argument. Government will be ethical in its dispensation of monopolized health care. I'm such a dope, of course they will be looking out for me every step of the way. Politicians are so far above the rest of us, I sleep well knowing they are on the job of looking after 'ole Shadow.
My health insurer today is such a meany. I purchased their policy and the bastards have lived up to their contract. Outrageous!
| 293 |
Racer X Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:28:37pm |
re: #284 Conservative Moonbat
Any other industry involved in killing people for profit.
For profit insurance can either maximize services to the benefit of the patent or the benefit of the stockholder. If they maximize for the benefit of the stockholder (and stockholders could sue if they didn't) you end up with murder by spreadsheet. No more profits over people.
There is no ethical way to provide for-profit healthcare.
Please.
50 years ago if you had a heart attack in America there was a 40% chance you were going to wake up DEAD.
Today the death rate from a heart attack is somewhere near 16%.
The improvements did not happen because of nationalized healthcare. The medical advances were born here in America - not in some socialist country where there is NO incentive to succeed.
Excellent health care comes at a price.
| 294 |
Last Mohican Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:29:23pm |
re: #264 Gus 802
On the topic of Skip Gates and racism. Cobb from Cobb Blog has an interesting take on this called "Six Pounds of Racism."
[Video]
If you watch it through he ends on an unexpected note.
I watched the whole video. I don't know anything about Cobb or his blog, but I found that to be a rambling, poorly organized, inarticulate, unconvincing video that mostly seemed to take a similar view of the Gates affair to that expressed by Colin Powell. The argument is basically this: yes, of course, absolutely without question Sergeant Crowley was a racist who treated Gates in a racist manner. But it was racism of an only moderate degree, and there are some times when you just need to let racism roll off your back and not make a big deal of it. Cobb took a slightly stronger stand than Powell, further arguing that if police officers are to be held to a standard in which absolutely zero racism is tolerable, then they simply won't be able to do their jobs.
I still do not agree with either Powell or Cobb. I will not accept that any time any police officer responds to a report of a possible crime in progress and asks a black man to show ID, that the police officer is necessarily committing a racist act. I just won't accept that.
| 295 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:30:02pm |
re: #285 idioma
Bottom line - why do libs trust the government? Serious question.
| 296 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:30:08pm |
re: #284 Conservative Moonbat
For profit insurance can either maximize services to the benefit of the patent or the benefit of the stockholder. If they maximize for the benefit of the stockholder (and stockholders could sue if they didn't) you end up with murder by spreadsheet. No more profits over people
They actually have to strike a better balance than that. Their product has to be attractive enough for people to buy and priced such that it can be affordable. Much of the profit insurance companies make is from how the invest the collected premiums.
Hence the AIG meltdown.
| 297 |
capitalist piglet Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:30:27pm |
When Obama and members of congress are on the plan they are proposing for the rest of us, I will be open to looking at it.
| 298 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:31:27pm |
re: #297 capitalist piglet
When Obama and members of congress are on the plan they are proposing for the rest of us, I will be open to looking at it.
So say we all. If it's good enough for us, it's good enough for them. No "It's basically the same plan" BS. Either we're all on the same plan or not.
| 299 |
Racer X Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:32:31pm |
re: #295 The Shadow Do
Bottom line - why do libs trust the government? Serious question.
Excellent question - especially since they absolutely did not trust the government just 2 years ago. What changed? Obama? Hardly. The U.S. government has been fucked up for a long time. I prefer LESS of it, and have for decades.
| 300 |
WindHorse Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:32:39pm |
re: #297 capitalist piglet
...but... this isn't about HIM. He told us himself that he and his family have a wonderful healthcare plan...
/my heart just swells wif pride...
| 301 |
subsailor68 Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:33:50pm |
re: #256 idioma
I'm not clear on your response. To recap...what you wrote was:
I don't know about your exact circumstances, but my grandparents aren't exactly rolling in medical benefits at the moment either, and both parties are to blame. After debating national health care since at least the Carter Admin, isn't a little bit sill to pin the tale on the Donkey now? Reagan, and two Bush presidencies later and we still don't have satisfaction, but now Obama is a dictator and a communist that wants seniors to be left in the cold? Sorry, I'm not buying it.
Your post above is:
Arguments are best handled by sticking to the actual topic with solid, verifiable facts. Arguments can be based on principle, but there still needs to be verifiable data to support said principle. As a registered voter, and a sensible human being with the capacity for logic and reason, I will not be swayed by inane ramblings regarding our elected president as a "dictator/communist". If you display impartial, peer-reviewed data to support a particular policy, I'll buy it.
Those that ache for a disqualification of the Obama Presidency - Nirthers, I am talking to you - do so because they don't feel comfortable with a black president.
End of story.
For the last 8 years I've had little patients for those ranting mental outpatients that simply did not like Bush - remember BDS? I endured their constant raging torrent of conspiracy theories about 9/11 and sekrit Joooz. Now I have to listen to senior citizens' nostalgia for Jim Crow. If a black president and state sanctioned homosexual monogamy are too much for you to handle, then it won't be diabetes or old age that do you in; your failure to adapt has already signed you off long ago. Living is more than spouting words and shooting cum, it's also about active participation and relevance. The GOP needs to choose its friends more carefully in the future. When they start to make sense again, then maybe I'll lend them an ear, or even vote in their favor.
Rush and Beck need to be taken off of the soap box and replaced by cooler talking heads.
I cannot take them or the GOP seriously right now. It's historically embarrassing to see the party like this.
Your basic point seems to be inadequate care for your grandparents. It is the topic sentence of your first paragraph. The rest of your post, and almost all of your second post, are difficult to decipher. However, this was an interesting segment:
Now I have to listen to senior citizens' nostalgia for Jim Crow. If a black president and state sanctioned homosexual monogamy are too much for you to handle, then it won't be diabetes or old age that do you in; your failure to adapt has already signed you off long ago. Living is more than spouting words and shooting cum, it's also about active participation and relevance.
As I said above, I'm not quite sure what you are intending to communicate, but I will say, spewing venom about senior citizens, their nostalgia for Jim Crow, and the fact that "living is more than spouting words and shooting cum" - it may be better for you to get some sleep, do a wee bit of reflection, and re-think your positions.
| 302 |
cliffster Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:35:07pm |
re: #289 Desert Dog
It's simple math. Medical care as a whole costs a lot. Want to demonize pharmaceutical companies? Developing cures/treatments for HIV, Cancer, etc, costs a lot of money. A lot. Think doctors charge too much? Try spending the 1.5 decades in school and training that it takes to become a doctor.
The bottom line is, it's expensive to treat medical problems. We don't have the resources to treat everybody. So whether it's private markets, or the government, deciding who gets turned away, people will get turned away. There's not enough resources in the USA to pay for everyone to have all the medical care they "need".
No one in their right mind would believe that we can pay for every medical problem of every American. And I certainly don't know why anyone in their right mind would want bureaucrats deciding who gets the care and who doesn't.
| 303 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:35:09pm |
Off thread regarding 'consensus science'
This is a very real problem. When most science is funded through taxes, then the peer review process takes over. Science administration is a bureaucracy, and that bureaucracy is as subject to the Iron Law of Bureaucracy as any other. The process weeds out silly grant applications and those based on truly unsound science, but it also weeds out bold challenges to the consensus, and the number of "peers" who adhere to the consensus grows. The result is concentration of resources on the popular hypotheses: often a good thing, but no formula for breakthroughs. How to fund contrarian ideas is the real challenge to government funding of science. We don't really want to be handing grants off to the Flat Earth Society, but you know, I'd rather give them a million or so each century than beggar the country in order to enrich Al Gore.
| 304 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:35:30pm |
re: #291 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Thanks, but no thanks! :-)
| 305 |
Desert Dog Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:37:42pm |
Ugh, gotta work early tomorrow...y'all have a good night, play nice
| 306 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:38:29pm |
OT: How exactly does one get an internet radio show anyway?
| 307 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:38:57pm |
Seems like folks are signing out, so I think I'll join the Rush and head off for bed myself. Night ya'll. And remember, just say no to nirthers.
| 308 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:39:48pm |
Bye desertdog (with an 'o', not a 'w')! Bye targetpractice!
| 309 |
shiplord kirel Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:40:18pm |
To get back to the original subject, I am fed up with the "Big Tent" being so big as to let in vermin like Alex Jones and those who associate with him. We are way, way past the stage of "ignore them and they'll go away." The analogy we need now is more like cockroaches being brought under a spotlight.
A modest suggestion: The RNC should issue a public, formal repudiation of Gohmert's statements to Jones; rebuking Gohmert himself for the incident, and threatening him with expulsion from the party if he persists. If the RNC doesn't have some internal mechanism for this kind of procedure, they need to get one.
Grow some balls, people.
| 310 |
WindHorse Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:41:14pm |
I think Obama and Rahm Emanuel are best suited to bagging groceries at Jewel Tea...
| 311 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:42:17pm |
re: #309 shiplord kirel
If the RNC doesn't have some internal mechanism for this kind of procedure, they need to get one.
If they did, wouldn't Ron Paul have been long gone? Especially after his 'blowback' comments during last year's GOP debates?
/blow back on this, Paul!
| 312 |
Dave Brown Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:42:49pm |
Totally off-topic, and totally funny (click the link below to watch the video clip):
Terrorists Threaten Sacha Baron Cohen Over a scene in ‘Brüno’
BY MARC TRACY %P% 11:00 AM JULY 28, 2009
"A scene in Sacha Baron Cohen’s movie Brüno has landed the British-Jewish performer in hot water with the al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade, the pro-Palestinian terrorist group. In the scene, the title character—a gay Austrian fashion maven, played by Cohen, who goes around interviewing unwitting interlocutors—asks a man identified as the Brigades’ leader to kidnap him, because “al-Qaeda is so 2001.” Brüno then tells the man, Ayman Abu Aita, “Your king Osama looks like a kind of dirty wizard or homeless Santa.” The Brigades announced in a statement that they were “very upset,” and that, er, “We reserve the right to respond in the way we find suitable against this man.” (Cohen has beefed up his personal security detail in response.) For our own part, we can’t understand why the Brigades are acting so un-fabulously. Also, didn’t they see Cohen’s previous movie, Borat? If they had, they would have known better than to trust Cohen—who is, after all, a Jew—in the first place."
[Link: www.tabletmag.com...]
| 313 |
Last Mohican Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:43:08pm |
re: #309 shiplord kirel
I agree.
I see the political utility of keeping the tent large and trying to remain polite to a diverse potential political base. But Alex Jones is a raving lunatic, and he does not belong in even the largest of tents.
| 314 |
mrshankly01 Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:43:41pm |
re: #291 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
nice icon.
| 315 |
Gus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:43:51pm |
re: #294 Last Mohican
I watched the whole video. I don't know anything about Cobb or his blog, but I found that to be a rambling, poorly organized, inarticulate, unconvincing video that mostly seemed to take a similar view of the Gates affair to that expressed by Colin Powell. The argument is basically this: yes, of course, absolutely without question Sergeant Crowley was a racist who treated Gates in a racist manner. But it was racism of an only moderate degree, and there are some times when you just need to let racism roll off your back and not make a big deal of it. Cobb took a slightly stronger stand than Powell, further arguing that if police officers are to be held to a standard in which absolutely zero racism is tolerable, then they simply won't be able to do their jobs.
I still do not agree with either Powell or Cobb. I will not accept that any time any police officer responds to a report of a possible crime in progress and asks a black man to show ID, that the police officer is necessarily committing a racist act. I just won't accept that.
It's more nuanced than that. "Cobb" is also arguing against "Gates ability to spout off against cops while disturbing the peace" and be allowed that freedom "because of a supposed sensitivity we are told to have because of race relations." He also states that "going down that road" create a situation in which the cure is worse than the disease.
Of course not every black man that is stopped by a police officer due to a racist act. However, it would be naive to assume that they are not stopped due to racism. You can't make that assumption in either case based on generalities.
| 316 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:44:08pm |
re: #292 The Shadow Do
My health insurer today is such a meany. I purchased their policy and the bastards have lived up to their contract. Outrageous!
I haven't had health insuance in two years. I'm a freelance web programmer.. I was able to afford private insurance there for a while but as the economy took a nosedive so did my income.
I've got what feels like a wad of phlegm stuck in the back of my throat except I can't swallow it down and can't cough it up. It just sits there making me gag. I've been treating it as if it's acid reflux. I went to a walk in clinic and they said that's what it probably was but I couldn't afford to get the rx filled that they gave me so I've just been taking pepcid. The next step is an endoscopy to see if it's a growth of some kind but I don't see the point in that because I've got no way to pay to deal with it if it is. In the meantime I'll just sit around gagging on my own throat until I puke.
I'm happy you're content with your insurance.
| 317 |
BignJames Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:44:12pm |
re: #284 Conservative Moonbat
How about doctors? They've made quite a financial investment in their education...should they expect no return?
| 318 |
zombie Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:44:51pm |
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) has a nice cozy chat with freakazoid Alex Jones about Barack Obama’s secret plan to euthanize senior citizens. You know, like Hitler.
I can't bring myself to watch it.
Please, somebody, I beg you, tell me they don't mention John Holdren or Ecoscience.
Why oh why did Alex Jones latch on to that story? He's like a curse.
| 319 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:46:04pm |
re: #318 zombie
Latch onto the story or take credit for the story?
| 321 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:47:13pm |
re: #281 Desert Dog
Well, I admit I actually agree with you there. I am curious though, you and others on this blog seem so willing to paint/taint the entire Republican Party with these clowns. They are not the mainstream either, not even close. The 59 million or so people that voted for McCain (and against Obama )are not all Nirthers, Birthers, Paulians or JBS nutjobs...neither are the the vast majority of the people that attended the tea party rally's. Perhaps you want them to be, but they are not.
I'm not saying that these clowns represent the whole Republican Party--and I never have thought of all Republicans or all conservatives as being nirthers, paulians, etc, or said that they are. These people DO taint the party. The party needs to boot them, or distance themselves from them a lot more than they are.
Again, this is about resenting criticism of the party. It's not the media or liberals tainting the Republican Party, however much you'd like to think so-- it's about the GOP pandering to the wackos in their party and the fringe.
Lots of conservatives and independents here feel abandoned by the GOP. That's not because of liberals.
| 322 |
WindHorse Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:47:52pm |
re: #318 zombie
...frankly, I watched this twice and the only thing I saw was reference to Obamacare and that it would result in elderly patients dying because of lack of care... which to me isn't quite the same as euthanizing...
but, I do agree that Alex Jones is a mindless idiot.
| 323 |
zombie Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:48:06pm |
re: #319 Fenway_Nation
Latch onto the story or take credit for the story?
Both.
Jones, seized it, plagiarized my essay, reposted it on his site as their own, then proceeded to run with the topic and wrote at least five more articles further elaborating on the theme, mixing in all sorts of insane conspiracy theories custom designed to make the whole thing seem like a hoax.
| 324 |
cliffster Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:48:16pm |
re: #316 Conservative Moonbat
That is an unfortunate story; I'm sorry. However, medical treatment is not withheld from people just because people are mean-spirited. It costs money to treat people. The money has to come from somewhere. Where do you suggest it come from?
| 325 |
zombie Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:49:14pm |
re: #90 Sharmuta
Killgore said it would get picked up by kooks and it did.
You can say that again.
Aaaaghhh! I got kooks on me! Get 'em off! Get 'em off!
| 327 |
Syrah Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:49:41pm |
re: #323 zombie
Both.
Jones, seized it, plagiarized my essay, reposted it on his site as their own, then proceeded to run with the topic and wrote at least five more articles further elaborating on the theme, mixing in all sorts of insane conspiracy theories custom designed to make the whole thing seem like a hoax.
A South Park Reality.
| 328 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:50:27pm |
re: #317 BignJames
How about doctors? They've made quite a financial investment in their education...should they expect no return?
I think best way to pay MDs is to put them on salary in clinics like is done at the Mayo Clinic. The fee-per-service model is part of the problem that allows for a lot of unneeded tests and the like to be slipped in.
.
| 329 |
SFGoth Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:51:34pm |
re: #274 Racer X
I have been caught speeding several times over the years. I was exceedingly polite every time. Most times I was let off with a warning.
I was pulled over in rural Nevada doing 80 in a 65. Cop gave me a rural speed violation - not a moving violation. My girlfriend was freaked out that she would be deported -- she was legally visiting me from Bulgaria but you know how some people are just nervous about everything. Unfortunately, this was while Olmert was fucking up the previous Israeli-Phaki conflict, so before we left on the trip I threw out the Star of David necklace, only to get pulled over in NV by Officer Kaplan.
| 330 |
freetoken Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:51:44pm |
re: #320 zombie
Alex rants about the whitehouse "science czar" wanting to pollute our bodily fluids...
| 331 |
Gus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:52:22pm |
re: #325 zombie
You can say that again.
Aaaaghhh! I got kooks on me! Get 'em off! Get 'em off!
Kooks and something about condoms for "horses."
Never a dull moment.
| 332 |
SFGoth Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:53:07pm |
re: #330 freetoken
Alex rants about the whitehouse "science czar" wanting to pollute our bodily fluids...
I think Americans do enough of that as it is. We are a nation of really fucking fat people, and it's gross.
| 333 |
Render Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:53:55pm |
Color me stunned, I shoulda known...
Alex Jones apparently endorsed both Chuck Baldwin and...Ron Paul, but he only donated to Ron Paul.
And on that note...
OUTTA
HERE,
R
| 334 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:54:28pm |
re: #324 cliffster
re: #324 cliffster
That is an unfortunate story; I'm sorry. However, medical treatment is not withheld from people just because people are mean-spirited. It costs money to treat people. The money has to come from somewhere. Where do you suggest it come from?
I pay income tax
Fire departments put out fires in the homes of poor people. I don't see why this has to be any different.
Hell, if there was even a government program offering interest free loans for health care I'd take that because I just need to get well enough I can work consistently again.
| 335 |
SFGoth Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:54:50pm |
re: #328 Conservative Moonbat
I think best way to pay MDs is to put them on salary in clinics like is done at the Mayo Clinic. The fee-per-service model is part of the problem that allows for a lot of unneeded tests and the like to be slipped in.
.
Meanwhile, the lawyers take 40%... Modern medicine is what used to be called "magic", "witchcraft", "miracle from god", etc. Competent doctors deserve to make a lot of money. Most of us deal with healthy people, they deal with sick ones, and depending on who the doctor is, with their guts spraying out, etc.
| 336 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:55:20pm |
re: #316 Conservative Moonbat
I haven't had health insuance in two years. I'm a freelance web programmer.. I was able to afford private insurance there for a while but as the economy took a nosedive so did my income.
I've got what feels like a wad of phlegm stuck in the back of my throat except I can't swallow it down and can't cough it up. It just sits there making me gag. I've been treating it as if it's acid reflux. I went to a walk in clinic and they said that's what it probably was but I couldn't afford to get the rx filled that they gave me so I've just been taking pepcid. The next step is an endoscopy to see if it's a growth of some kind but I don't see the point in that because I've got no way to pay to deal with it if it is. In the meantime I'll just sit around gagging on my own throat until I puke.
I'm happy you're content with your insurance.
I believe that there is a lot of room for health insurance reform. Especially universal access to affordable catastrophic insurance. That would probaly mean some federal subsidy that would be wage-based. That seems fair.
Single payer is absolutely unfair and will certainly result in increased suffering at every level. Washington is no panacea you can be damn sure of that. Examine the evidence.
| 337 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:55:59pm |
re: #329 SFGoth
The last time I got pulled over was awhile ago because of a broken brakelight- in broad daylight. I was too surprised to be either really hostile or cooperative...I just kept asking 'Are you sure?' because I thought maybe the brakelights weren't visible in the glare of the mid-day sun.
I was issued one of those fix-it tickets.
| 338 |
zombie Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:57:03pm |
re: #328 Conservative Moonbat
I think best way to pay MDs is to put them on salary in clinics like is done at the Mayo Clinic. The fee-per-service model is part of the problem that allows for a lot of unneeded tests and the like to be slipped in.
.
Doctor A in private practice is a good doctor and as a result gets a lot of clients and makes a lot of money.
Doctor B in private practice is a not-so-good doctor and as a result doesn't get many clients.
Obamacare comes along and gives doctors the option to go on a government salary in a clinic serving the public.
The salary is less than what Doctor A is currently making -- but more than what Doctor B is currently making.
Doctor B quits his private practice and becomes a government clinic doctor.
Doctor A is no fool - he can make a lot more money by staying in private practice.
End result when you play out this scenario thousands of times:
Government-sponsored national health care will be the last refuge of not-so-good doctors, and as a consequence the care provided will be substandard compared to private care.
This happens in most countries with nationalized health care. Which explains why the service provided is generally crappy.
| 339 |
mrshankly01 Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:58:01pm |
re: #334 Conservative Moonbat
i think a city needs many more doctors than firefighters. higher demand brings higher wages.
| 340 |
zombie Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:58:54pm |
re: #330 freetoken
Alex rants about the whitehouse "science czar" wanting to pollute our bodily fluids...
Oh Lord, what's the use in trying anything anymore?
I got a bad case of the kooks. I'm Jones-in'.
| 341 |
Last Mohican Tue, Jul 28, 2009 10:59:01pm |
re: #315 Gus 802
It's more nuanced than that. "Cobb" is also arguing against "Gates ability to spout off against cops while disturbing the peace" and be allowed that freedom "because of a supposed sensitivity we are told to have because of race relations." He also states that "going down that road" create a situation in which the cure is worse than the disease.
Well, I admit that it's hard for me to follow Cobb's argument, because, I think, it's not well stated. But I watched the video again. As far as I can tell, Cobb argues against the "Gates standard of racism," which he defines roughly as a zero tolerance policy: "even the slightest bit of racism is unacceptable, and should give one the right to exercise one's first amendment rights by talking back to a police officer." This implies a presupposition that Crowley's actions were in some sense "moderately racist," and therefore either should or should not be actionable, depending on whether you accept the Gates "zero tolerance" standard, or the Cobb standard, in which we have to accept some small amount of racism in order to allow society to function. I still reject the presupposition that Crowley's actions were in any way racist.
Of course not every black man that is stopped by a police officer due to a racist act. However, it would be naive to assume that they are not stopped due to racism. You can't make that assumption in either case based on generalities.
I agree, and I would go further by asserting that many black men are stopped by white police officers for no other reason than that they hate black men, and consciously wish to harass them and make them feel pain. But I see no reason to believe that Crowley had such feelings.
| 342 |
WindHorse Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:00:57pm |
re: #328 Conservative Moonbat
I just had this argument today with my moonbat sister. She claims that all doctors are motivated by profit.
I reminded her that our father (who was an MD) had told me that there are two kinds of doctors. The first is motivated by money. The second is motivated by what they are doing in helping people.
I have had tons of things wrong with me health-wise. My manila folder is nearly three inches thick. And, my dad was right.
I think I can probably name four doctors I have dealt with over the years (out of dozens) who were blatantly making decisions on the basis of greed.
I told my sister that I was willing to extend to doctors the same respect (regarding statistics and their human nature) that I would anyone else. I also told her that people are, generally, honest and good - and that this also applied to doctors.
She was hesitant, but then decided to agree with me.
I would stake my life on the fact that MOST doctors are doing what they do NOT for the money, but rather because they are helping people.
I say... let the free market do it's thing. Let the doctors do what they think is best. Trust them.
Get the idiots out of the way... (really, are we ready to put our faith in some political hack who is only qualified to bag groceries at Jewel Tea make decisions about our health??)
| 343 |
cliffster Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:01:01pm |
re: #334 Conservative Moonbat
Fixing health problems is way more complex and expensive than putting out fires. Again, I'm sorry about your throat problems.
| 344 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:01:41pm |
re: #341 Last Mohican
I agree, and I would go further by asserting that many black men are stopped by white police officers for no other reason than that they hate black men, and consciously wish to harass them and make them feel pain.
What is wrong with you?
| 345 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:02:17pm |
Heya Gus...did you see the link I posted earlier about the DeKirchners enriching themselves off some shady real-estate deals in Patagonia while assailing Argentine farmers for their 'abundant' profits?
| 346 |
BignJames Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:02:24pm |
re: #328 Conservative Moonbat
I think best way to pay MDs is to put them on salary in clinics like is done at the Mayo Clinic. The fee-per-service model is part of the problem that allows for a lot of unneeded tests and the like to be slipped in.
.
That's a sure way to promote incentive and excellence...the "unneeded tests" is a cya phenomena that is a direct result of lawyers.
| 347 |
Last Mohican Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:03:02pm |
re: #344 The Shadow Do
What is wrong with you?
I don't think I understand your question. Could you restate it?
| 348 |
WindHorse Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:03:36pm |
re: #342 WindHorse
I also reminded my loving sister that our father did about 2/3rds of all of his cases (ever) for free.
| 349 |
Racer X Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:03:43pm |
re: #341 Last Mohican
I was with a black friend of mine driving around late one night in Atlanta a few years back. He was doing 39 in a 35 zone. Cop pulled him over and gave him a ticket. He was nice as could be to the cop. Afterward he just turned to me and said "driving while black".
It happens. It's not right but there it is.
| 350 |
SFGoth Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:04:25pm |
re: #342 WindHorse
I just had this argument today with my moonbat sister. She claims that all doctors are motivated by profit.
These days, people who are motivated by $ are lawyers. Lawyering is sooo much easier than doctoring. Lawyers seriously outmake doctors.
| 351 |
subsailor68 Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:06:02pm |
Good night all. I hope everyone has a wonderful evening, and a terrific day tomorrow!
| 353 |
WindHorse Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:06:44pm |
re: #350 SFGoth
heh...
my nephew (my brother's kid) is in law school. He wants to represent professional athletes.
Please. Ask me what I think if him.
| 354 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:07:02pm |
re: #309 shiplord kirel
To get back to the original subject, I am fed up with the "Big Tent" being so big as to let in vermin like Alex Jones and those who associate with him. We are way, way past the stage of "ignore them and they'll go away." The analogy we need now is more like cockroaches being brought under a spotlight.
A modest suggestion: The RNC should issue a public, formal repudiation of Gohmert's statements to Jones; rebuking Gohmert himself for the incident, and threatening him with expulsion from the party if he persists. If the RNC doesn't have some internal mechanism for this kind of procedure, they need to get one.
Grow some balls, people.
Agreed. That is exactly what should be done. It won't be done but here is a contructive middle ground: Start gathering influential members of the party and show them clips of Jones in action. If you do that and make a clear case, they can then put the word out that Jones a kook to be avoided. Jones needs to be seen as radioactive and that can be done.
| 355 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:07:04pm |
re: #347 Last Mohican
I don't think I understand your question. Could you restate it?
Okay, again what is wrong with you...
I agree, and I would go further by asserting that many black men are stopped by white police officers for no other reason than that they hate black men, and consciously wish to harass them and make them feel pain.
Where do you get this shit?
| 356 |
SFGoth Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:07:52pm |
re: #353 WindHorse
heh...
my nephew (my brother's kid) is in law school. He wants to represent professional athletes.
Please. Ask me what I think if him.
I think I'd rather pull your finger.
| 357 |
WindHorse Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:08:17pm |
| 358 |
Gus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:08:54pm |
re: #341 Last Mohican
You know, I was actually going to preface that video post with something regarding him rambling. It is difficult to follow.
I do think there will always be a level of racism. In this case he refers to 6 pounds as the highest level. You can replace racism with other biases -- for example mutable appearances such as having long hair. I think what on does is tolerate it to go about your daily business. Could also be cases of religious bias, i.e. being a Christian in a liberal city.
Perhaps it then becomes a matter of being able to function. I always thought "there will always be someone that doesn't like me for one reason or the other." But you cope.
In Gates case I think there is also a matter of class and his reaction.
Now I'm starting to ramble.
| 359 |
idioma Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:11:30pm |
re: #295 The Shadow Do
Bottom line - why do libs trust the government? Serious question.
I think that question is a little bit loaded. Labels are so 1993. I'm more of an independant [sic] :-/
Like it or not, the government is already involved in many areas of your life. This website would not exist without the government funding the development of the world wide web. You would not have standard electricity in your home or roads to drive on without some level of coordination from the government. In some areas the government plays a vital role in the stability and prosperity of the country. A strong national defense, and public infrastructure are an active component to our social contract.
Toothpaste doesn't go back in the tube. If the government is already tasked by the public to regulate the products that we buy. Now you might think that it's not the government's role to determine whether or not you wear a seatbelt, but it took legislation to make those seatbelts standard equipment in your car.
Do you think we would be better off if our tap water was marketed to us by tycoons without regulations on the price or quality? The private sector didn't put men on the moon 40 years ago, and 40 years later no private venture has. If you've ever traveled from one state to another on the interstate highways, you have a "pinko liberal commie" to thank for it. Our government doesn't always get things right. You might label me as a liberal because it's easier to dismiss my assertions. But if you will be intellectually honest and accept Apollo 11 and Challenger as byproducts of that contract you will see some balance in things.
If your drinking water is safe and affordable there's really nothing to fix, just so long as it is sustainable and no immediate improvements are required the government is doing a good job. If they cannot fill pot holes or stop houses from burning down, kick the bums out of office! Our election process was designed with failure and success of government in mind.
I don't blindly trust the government, but I am willing to give credit where credit is due. In my particular case, the government works. I do not have many complaints about the local government, precisely because it does work. I have lived in places where that was not the case, but I moved, and those states no longer receive a cut of my pay - which is perfectly fair.
The private sector doesn't deserve blind trust either.
Maybe it is blind trust that is a fallacy.
How about this: Trust can be earned. The government or the private sector and free markets have an equal shot. The current system doesn't work, the government wants to take a shot at it. It will cost us. All of us. What makes you think the private system doesn't?
I trust you will think about this.
| 360 |
zombie Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:11:41pm |
Stupidest reason for a murder in the last year:
Police have made an arrest in a 2008 jewelry theft-homicide but are still looking for the stolen bling that apparently cost a San Francisco man his life.Richard Barrett, 29, had just left the Hustler Club in North Beach early Nov. 25 when two men spotted the diamond-encrusted figure Barrett wore on a white gold chain
.
It was Barrett's prized jewelry, depicting the club-wielding cartoon baby Bamm-Bamm from "The Flintstones."
"We know he was targeted because of the medallion he was wearing," said the investigator in the case, Inspector Robert Lynch."The pendant was highly visible," Lynch said. "He was grabbed, thrown against the wall, and one of the suspects grabbed onto the pendant."
The man yanked the medallion from around Barrett's neck. Barrett tried to run away, but one of the robbers shot him in the back.
| 361 |
Gus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:13:02pm |
re: #345 Fenway_Nation
Heya Gus...did you see the link I posted earlier about the DeKirchners enriching themselves off some shady real-estate deals in Patagonia while assailing Argentine farmers for their 'abundant' profits?
I didn't see your link but I read about it earlier this week. They're rolling in the dough and making friends with Chavez and Zelaya. Carlos Menem was another high roller but I think the Kirchners have him beat. And they're the ones that wanted to tax the ranchers.
| 362 |
idioma Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:15:06pm |
re: #301 subsailor68
Read post 150.
Garbage in Garbage out. I think I handled their points rather well.
It's okay if you don't like me. Most bubbleheads don't. I'm from the brown-shoe side of things. (AW/SW)
| 364 |
Gus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:19:26pm |
re: #360 zombie
Stupidest reason for a murder in the last year:
Disgusting. Could you imagine the nightmare of being shot in the back while running away from these mutants?
I remember when I first moved to San Francisco I used to wear a gold "tone" Seiko watch. After a while I began to notice that some of the more suspicious looking men on the streets were always looking at it -- and it was clearly obvious. I stopped wearing it.
| 365 |
Last Mohican Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:19:47pm |
re: #355 The Shadow Do
Where do you get this shit?
From white police officers, and friends and relatives of white police officers, who tell what they think are amusing stories about how they pull over black people and harass them. I know of only three such stories, but I believe them.
| 366 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:20:16pm |
re: #359 idioma
The biggest reason I don't trust the government with health care is that it has the ability use force. If I need procedure X, and can pay for it, right now I can get it. It might cost me my life savings, but it is still possible. Government-run care could close off any non-approved access to care.
| 368 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:22:57pm |
re: #359 idioma
The question was not "currently, how ingrained is the government in our lives," the question was "Bottom line - why do libs trust the government? Serious question."
But, you went on a long rant that had nothing to do with the original question, and never came close to answering it.
It doesn't matter how much government involvement can be found in our everyday lives, our institutions, our public and private businesses and other areas, but what does matter is keeping good track of the governments ability to do it's job.
Liberals tend to trust that everything the government proposes in regards to controls, such as silly things like taxing soda to keep people from abusing it to telling us where and when we can smoke.
Conservatives tend to question when the government wants to instigate this sort of control. That doesn't mean conservatives will not accept or welcome this sort of government intervention, but we will question it first.
Liberal greet most of this kind of control with open arms and open hearts, which is the crux of the problem, you think with your hearts, not your heads.
| 369 |
WindHorse Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:23:41pm |
re: #366 Dark_Falcon
this reminds me of a friend of mine who was stationed in Germany while he was in the Army. He had developed an ear infection and was sent to the doctor (as he told me... to a local German doctor).
He went in... told the nurse about his ear. The doctor came in a few minutes later and told him to drop his drawers.
He paused... then asked why he had to drop his pants.
The doctor muttered something about Ear-inary tract infection.
Welcome to obamacare!
| 370 |
mrshankly01 Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:23:43pm |
re: #359 idioma
wow,, too long to comment on fully. over all, your present a number of situations where government intervention has helped the country. most of them can be classified as public goods (public infrastructure, national defense). governments are good are public goods because they are non-rival and non excludable in consumption. thus the rationing problem isn't there. in healthcare, though, it is. if a government provides healthcare it will create what is called a moral hazard (basically people over use because what they are using is free). thus it will have to ration what is provided in order to control for this. the pricing mechanism isn't there to control supply and demand.
here is an excellent peice about the healthcare issue.
Excerpt:
Rationing has to occur. This sounds cold and cruel, but it is reality. A=A. If you have a material good or service, like health care, that is ever increasing in quality, and therefore cost, there is no way everyone on Earth can have the best at all times (actually the quality increases are not necessary for rationing to be needed, it just makes the example clearer). It’s going to be rationed by some means. The alternatives come down to the marketplace or the government. To choose between those alternatives you judge on morality and efficacy.
Everyone on both sides seems to hate the rationing word. People favoring free markets point to the explicit rationing that occurs in other countries with glee, while those favoring socialism point to the number of uninsured who get their health care through emergency rooms and the like (a form of rationing). Both sides are wrong to complain about rationing per se, that’s a fact of life. But there are differences.
It is an uncomfortable truth that tough choices will have to be made. There is no system that provides for unlimited wants with limited resources. Our choice is whether it should be rationed by free people making their own economic calculations or by a bureaucracy run by Congressional committee (whose members, like the Russian commissars, will, I guarantee you, still get the best health care the gulag hospitaligo can provide). Free people making their own choices only consume what they value above price, using funds they have earned or been given voluntarily. With socialized medicine health care is rationed by committees of politicians trying to get re-elected and increase their own power, and people consume as much of it as the commissars deem permissible. I do not find these tough alternatives to choose between.
| 371 |
Gus Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:25:18pm |
Christopher Hitchens chimes in on Skipgate.
A Man's Home Is His Constitutional Castle
Henry Louis Gates Jr. should have taken his stand on the Bill of Rights, not on his epidermis or that of the arresting officer.
| 372 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:26:06pm |
re: #359 idioma
Infrastructure, defense, health & environmental - all legitimate points of federal interest.
We part ways when you place your trust in the least responsive arm of government - Washington.
Your points are well taken that at the local level you can have some effect and at worst move the hell out. When the power is centralized, which is where we are presently heading, you become powerless and you cannot move far enough.
| 373 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:26:23pm |
re: #370 mrshankly01
wow,, too long to comment on fully. over all, your present a number of situations where government intervention has helped the country. most of them can be classified as public goods (public infrastructure, national defense). governments are good are public goods because they are non-rival and non excludable in consumption. thus the rationing problem isn't there. in healthcare, though, it is. if a government provides healthcare it will create what is called a moral hazard (basically people over use because what they are using is free). thus it will have to ration what is provided in order to control for this. the pricing mechanism isn't there to control supply and demand.
here is an excellent peice about the healthcare issue.
Excerpt:
Rationing has to occur. This sounds cold and cruel, but it is reality. A=A. If you have a material good or service, like health care, that is ever increasing in quality, and therefore cost, there is no way everyone on Earth can have the best at all times (actually the quality increases are not necessary for rationing to be needed, it just makes the example clearer). It’s going to be rationed by some means. The alternatives come down to the marketplace or the government. To choose between those alternatives you judge on morality and efficacy.Everyone on both sides seems to hate the rationing word. People favoring free markets point to the explicit rationing that occurs in other countries with glee, while those favoring socialism point to the number of uninsured who get their health care through emergency rooms and the like (a form of rationing). Both sides are wrong to complain about rationing per se, that’s a fact of life. But there are differences.
It is an uncomfortable truth that tough choices will have to be made. There is no system that provides for unlimited wants with limited resources. Our choice is whether it should be rationed by free people making their own economic calculations or by a bureaucracy run by Congressional committee (whose members, like the Russian commissars, will, I guarantee you, still get the best health care the gulag hospitaligo can provide). Free people making their own choices only consume what they value above price, using funds they have earned or been given voluntarily. With socialized medicine health care is rationed by committees of politicians trying to get re-elected and increase their own power, and people consume as much of it as the commissars deem permissible. I do not find these tough alternatives to choose between.
Brilliant writing! Upding and favorited.
| 374 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:28:10pm |
re: #365 Last Mohican
From white police officers, and friends and relatives of white police officers, who tell what they think are amusing stories about how they pull over black people and harass them. I know of only three such stories, but I believe them.
Okey Doke, run with that then. Foolish as it may be.
| 375 |
mrshankly01 Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:30:57pm |
re: #373 Dark_Falcon
thanks DF. Please go to the link. the essay is great.
| 376 |
Last Mohican Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:32:58pm |
re: #374 The Shadow Do
Okey Doke, run with that then. Foolish as it may be.
Just so we're clear on this: several white police officers have said to me that they think it's fun to stop black people and harass them, and that they have done this. I know of three such incidents. You feel that this somehow makes me foolish, and that it means that there's something wrong with me.
Just so we're clear on this.
| 377 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:34:27pm |
re: #376 Last Mohican
Just so we're clear on this: several white police officers have said to me that they think it's fun to stop black people and harass them, and that they have done this. I know of three such incidents. You feel that this somehow makes me foolish, and that it means that there's something wrong with me.
Just so we're clear on this.
I worked for a police force. You or your friends are full of shit. IMHO of course.
| 378 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:38:14pm |
re: #376 Last Mohican
Just so we're clear on this: several white police officers have said to me that they think it's fun to stop black people and harass them, and that they have done this. I know of three such incidents. You feel that this somehow makes me foolish, and that it means that there's something wrong with me.
Just so we're clear on this.
Oh, and you might want to consider cultivating a new group of friends.
| 379 |
Last Mohican Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:38:46pm |
re: #371 Gus 802
Christopher Hitchens chimes in on Skipgate.
Thanks for posting that. Generally a well-stated argument, I think.
If there's any part of Gates' defense that I find convincing, it's the idea that he shouldn't have been handcuffed, arrested, and thrown in jail overnight for saying nasty abusive things to a police officer, before and after he showed his ID to the police officer. I don't know the actual laws regarding "disorderly conduct," or whether merely being loud and abusive to a police officer is grounds for arrest.
I still maintain that Gates' reflexive belief that he was being picked on because of his race was not only incorrect, but self-indulgently representative of a mindset that's dangerously pervasive.
| 380 |
Last Mohican Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:42:14pm |
re: #377 The Shadow Do
I worked for a police force. You or your friends are full of shit. IMHO of course.
You're arguing that because you worked for a police force, that therefore there is not a single racist police officer in all of America. Just so we're clear.
| 381 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:44:39pm |
re: #380 Last Mohican
You're arguing that because you worked for a police force, that therefore there is not a single racist police officer in all of America. Just so we're clear.
Straw man. Your anecdotal BS carries no weight, just so we're clear.
| 382 |
mrshankly01 Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:45:18pm |
re: #380 Last Mohican
and you are arguing that because you know three racist police officers that they are all racist.
| 383 |
capitalist piglet Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:51:32pm |
re: #376 Last Mohican
Just so we're clear on this: several white police officers have said to me that they think it's fun to stop black people and harass them, and that they have done this. I know of three such incidents. You feel that this somehow makes me foolish, and that it means that there's something wrong with me.
Just so we're clear on this.
Did you report them?
| 384 |
Last Mohican Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:52:35pm |
re: #382 mrshankly01
and you are arguing that because you know three racist police officers that they are all racist.
Utter, complete bullshit. 100% mindless garbage.
Not only have I never said anything like that, but I've just spend several days arguing the opposite of that statement. Including a number of comments on this very thread. Including a comment that's just three comments above yours.
| 385 |
Last Mohican Tue, Jul 28, 2009 11:58:08pm |
re: #383 capitalist piglet
Did you report them?
No, I did not. I'm not even really sure how I would have -- I was hearing about events that supposedly happened in the past. I'm not excusing myself. I should have spoken up at the time and said "I think that's horrible," and I didn't. I don't feel good about that.
| 386 |
jvic Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:16:12am |
Odd. I thought that Gohmert was one of the good guys:
We should applaud Reps. Bobby Scott (D-Va.) and Louie Gohmert (R-Texas), then, for holding a bipartisan hearing today to examine how federal law can make a criminal out of anyone, for even the most mundane conduct.
We should, and I do.
I'm not going to devote another ten minutes to that audio but I'll read a transcript if someone can post a link I haven't been able to find.
My recollection is that Gohmert wanted to talk about "nation-killing" spending--he's got a point--and Jones kept pulling him into looneyland. I wish Gohmert had resisted more strongly or adroitly, but temporizing is the first instinct of the mundane politician.
Based on what I know at present, I just don't see the rationale for what someone has advocated here: a public GOP chastisement of Gohmert. I am ready to change my mind upon evidence presented, but right now I don't see sufficient evidence to indict let alone convict. Ron Paul is another matter.
Gohmert's site is here.
| 387 |
Salamantis Wed, Jul 29, 2009 1:50:59am |
re: #333 Render
Color me stunned, I shoulda known...
Alex Jones apparently endorsed both Chuck Baldwin and...Ron Paul, but he only donated to Ron Paul.
And on that note...
OUTTA
HERE,
R
Was Bob Barr miffed?
| 388 |
Salamantis Wed, Jul 29, 2009 2:00:58am |
re: #324 cliffster
That is an unfortunate story; I'm sorry. However, medical treatment is not withheld from people just because people are mean-spirited. It costs money to treat people. The money has to come from somewhere. Where do you suggest it come from?
When people who can't afford health insurance or doctor visits get too ill, they go to the ER and receive care, which they cannot pay for, because they were too poor in the first place, and waiting till they had no choice but to go to the ER means that it costs more to fix them up. Nonpayment may shaft their credit rating, but it's better than being dead. And who pays for all this? The hospital makes up the diff by charging more to their paying patients, and to the health insurance companies, which pass that cost along in higher premiums. So the same people pay for that treatment who pay for lawyers' judgments and lawsuit insurance; the general private-insurance-holding and self-paying public.
| 389 |
Cato Wed, Jul 29, 2009 2:26:39am |
The really scary thing about nationalized healthcare is that it converts every citizen in the eyes of the state from a producer of revenue to a consumer of services, from an asset to a liability.
| 390 |
idioma Wed, Jul 29, 2009 5:29:01am |
re: #372 The Shadow Do
Infrastructure, defense, health & environmental - all legitimate points of federal interest.
We part ways when you place your trust in the least responsive arm of government - Washington.
Your points are well taken that at the local level you can have some effect and at worst move the hell out. When the power is centralized, which is where we are presently heading, you become powerless and you cannot move far enough.
Ah, but I never said that health care should be administrated at a federal level. Centralization would be inefficient at best, and completely useless at worst.
Since state-level governments seem to have a better grasp on their budgets and the social/economic climates are more reasonably assessed (there are exception to this, also) most states have already had the initiative to offer some form of state-run public health care. Now, currently, these systems are only available to the elderly/disabled/poor, and are not intended for use by those with active full-time employment, we already have a considerable amount of state-level data about health care costs, and demographics.
In addition to lessons learned, some states are more prepared than others to tackle the issue of handling a large portion of the population. The federal government is in a position to establish funding and standards for such reform, but that doesn't mean I observe such reform with bucolic imagery of healthy happy people, I merely suggest that given the relatively eclectic population of this country, already being divided by states, and political affiliations, the federal government needs to play a vital, yet simple roll in national health care: funding and standards.
That's it. Individual states ought to be tasked with the specifics, up to and including not offering such benefits to their citizens. Those that abstain will most likely enjoy lower taxes, but a higher cost of living and smaller wages - which is fair. Those states that do offer such service will of course have higher taxes accompanied by a lower cost of living and higher wages (think about California compared to Utah or Idaho). If the federal government offers incentives for states to offer public health care or establishes a minimum standard for all citizens, it does not immediately translate into a large ineffective bureaucracy, the inherent risk of such has not been ignored.
| 391 |
idioma Wed, Jul 29, 2009 5:49:26am |
re: #370 mrshankly01
Rationing already occurs. Not just anyone can get on Medicaid for example. Here's the problem: The baby boomers are going to bring the current system to its knees. Rationing to a small percentage, while the majority seek health care through employment benefits has been a great way to go about our business. But that system is about to hit a major wall. So we have two choices:
1# We can keep things the way they are, young people that are early into their careers can be insured by the company they work for, while taxes sky rocket to cover the additional expense of Medicaid, leaving them less money each payday - the consequences of which are already well known.
2# Our elected officials can represent us and draft reforms to the current system to include more people, and better distribute the burden which is currently targeting younger professionals with families, while offering a benefit in return for the higher cost (taxes).
Even inaction is an action in this case. A solution must be presented, because the boomers aren't getting younger, or more willing to pay for their own retirement years.
| 392 |
SecondComing Wed, Jul 29, 2009 5:55:51am |
re: #10 Racer X
West Coast Lizards:
Remember to go outside at 8:43 PM PST and watch the ISS float overhead.
Looks like a bright airplane with a light that does not blink. Northwest moving to Southwest.
You've obviously been duped by the New World Order and their alien coverup! /sarc (did I even need to?)
| 393 |
SecondComing Wed, Jul 29, 2009 6:02:52am |
re: #29 Dark_Falcon
To paraphrase the sign:
Facepalm: Because expressing with words just how stupid going on the Alex Jones Show is just isn't enough.
Somebody make the Bad Craziness stop!
You can't reason with Troofers and the like. When anyone starts talking to me about 9/11 conspiracies or 'International bankers' I just give them a look like they're batshit crazy(which they are) and try to shame them. Talking with them is futile.
| 394 |
idioma Wed, Jul 29, 2009 6:07:16am |
re: #368 Walter L. Newton
The question was not "currently, how ingrained is the government in our lives," the question was "Bottom line - why do libs trust the government? Serious question."
But, you went on a long rant that had nothing to do with the original question, and never came close to answering it.
It doesn't matter how much government involvement can be found in our everyday lives, our institutions, our public and private businesses and other areas, but what does matter is keeping good track of the governments ability to do it's job.
Liberals tend to trust that everything the government proposes in regards to controls, such as silly things like taxing soda to keep people from abusing it to telling us where and when we can smoke.
Conservatives tend to question when the government wants to instigate this sort of control. That doesn't mean conservatives will not accept or welcome this sort of government intervention, but we will question it first.
Liberal greet most of this kind of control with open arms and open hearts, which is the crux of the problem, you think with your hearts, not your heads.
the question was "Bottom line - why do libs trust the government? Serious question."
Why? Because that's what they do. Why does a bear poop in the woods?
Buddy, thanks for the label, but I am not a liberal. You can bury your head in the sand, and pretend that the GOP didn't pander to evangelical christians, conspiracy kooks, Timothy McAbortion Clinic bombers, Intelligent Designer Jeans, and thus LOSE THE LAST MAJOR ELECTION, but I am going to point this out very plainly.
The GOP has no control over anything in Washington.
Period.
The Democrats have the control.
That is a fact.
They got there by simply appearing to be a little bit less crazy than the GOPs big hitters (raise your hands if you don't believe in evolution).
Now that doesn't make the Democrats right.
It doesn't mean they are Better.
It doesn't mean they are even more qualified.
But they are easier to trust when they accept things like evolution as a scientific fact instead of "just a theory".
The GOP drew a stupid line in the sand, and now the entire country has to pay for it.
Now you can write down a list of all of the reasons the liberals suck, but just remember: the GOP lost to them.
The people in charge are not the people that I voted for either, but I am at least decent enough to acknowledge that they won the election. When they present their agenda, you don't have to like it. You can whine and piss and moan like a gut-shot cop, or you can ACCEPT the fact that the Democrats are going to write legislation for things like national health care.
Stomping your feet and saying "they shouldn't do that!" will not change the fact that they ARE GOING TO DO IT. Write your representatives, tell them you think their policies are bad for this country, but make sure you offer an alternative.
You won't get anywhere with "no", so you better start talking about "how". You are going to be a part of national health care, because the GOP decided creationism and abortions were more important. Be constructive and offer ways to be cost effective, because this is happening, and we're all going to have to live with it.
| 395 |
SecondComing Wed, Jul 29, 2009 7:25:12am |
re: #328 Conservative Moonbat
I think best way to pay MDs is to put them on salary in clinics like is done at the Mayo Clinic. The fee-per-service model is part of the problem that allows for a lot of unneeded tests and the like to be slipped in.
.
Not sure about the whole salary thing. But when I was hospitalized for a very serious and rare condition that temporarily affected parts of my brain, I would have these random doctors popping in. Doctors I would never see again would pop in and ask me to recite something like "the black horse rode over the babbling brook". And just for that and that alone I would receive a bill for $120 or so. It was from his dr.'s office and not the hospital I was in. And I was thinking, who told this guy to or that he could come in there? But I was too out of it to argue about any of it. It seemed like a way for this guy to pad his wallet. There were a couple like that.
| 396 |
SecondComing Wed, Jul 29, 2009 7:32:34am |
re: #349 Racer X
I was with a black friend of mine driving around late one night in Atlanta a few years back. He was doing 39 in a 35 zone. Cop pulled him over and gave him a ticket. He was nice as could be to the cop. Afterward he just turned to me and said "driving while black".
It happens. It's not right but there it is.
So he was speeding. Cops around here are pretty hard ass about 35mph zones.
| 397 |
theuglydougling Wed, Jul 29, 2009 7:45:23am |
re: #99 Charles
Yes, absolutely! This, for example:
[Video]
OMG that is so awesome. Hahahaha!! My first good laugh of the day!
| 398 |
SecondComing Wed, Jul 29, 2009 7:48:27am |
re: #397 theuglydougling
OMG that is so awesome. Hahahaha!! My first good laugh of the day!
I wish Youtube wasn't blocked.
| 400 |
ssn697 Wed, Jul 29, 2009 8:22:33am |
Having trouble quoting posts, so for Walter Newton: Where do you get "Liberals trust the government" from?
Here is the latest polling on the subject:
[Link: www.pollingreport.com...]
Looking at the trust numbers, NO ONE trusts the government.
| 401 |
gregb Wed, Jul 29, 2009 8:37:13am |
I had no idea who Mr. Jones was. He kind of sounds like Glen Beck crossed with Art Bell.
I think he means "allow to die from lack of access to proper care due to government restrictions" as opposed to "euthanize".
The craziness starts at 5:09.
| 402 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Jul 29, 2009 10:10:58am |
re: #389 Cato
The really scary thing about nationalized healthcare is that it converts every citizen in the eyes of the state from a producer of revenue to a consumer of services, from an asset to a liability.
If the definition of citizen is "a producer of revenue", we're deep in the Cloaca Maxima right there.
In that case, I decline the designation and renounce my citizenship.
| 403 |
proximate Wed, Jul 29, 2009 10:57:57pm |
Ezekial Emanuel, our Health Care Policy Czar, hasn't been secret about his plan to encourage (coerce?) old folks to self-terminate as a cost-saving measure. In fact, he's been quite loquacious about it. Works great in the Netherlands and Oregon. Huge cost savings. Who needs pacemakers or cancer drugs when painkillers are so cheap?
Rahm Emanuel's brother Ezekial is pretty skeptical about the Hippocratic Oath too. Doesn't anyone watch CSPAN for cryin' out loud?
The Attack on Doctors' Hippocratic Oath
Alex Jones is a certifiable loon; yet John Holdren our Science Czar has written crazier things than Alex Jones has ever said. Remind me again, is Marxism scientific?
Great advisors our President picks. Neo-Malthusians overseeing health and science policy. Golly, fills me with confidence.
At least I live near enough the southern border that I'll be able to get dentistry in Tijuana rather than wait 3 months for a root canal. The rest of you... well I suggest you start making alternative plans.
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