No Health Care Vote Before August Break

PoliticsJuly 2009 • Views: 2,457

The Blue Dogs have cut a deal with House Dems, and there’s not going to be a vote on health care before the August recess.

The Energy and Commerce Committee will resume its markup of healthcare legislation Wednesday afternoon under a deal between Blue Dogs and House leaders, but there will be no floor vote on the legislation before August.

Delaying a vote until August was a key demand of the Blue Dogs, along with reducing the cost of the bill by $100 billion and allowing states to create health “co-ops” that would compete with the government-run “public option” and private insurers.

“We cut the cost of the bill, delayed a floor vote and ensured that the public option will not be forced on anyone,” said Rep. Mike Ross (D-Ark.) who has led the negotiations for the Blue Dogs. “Members will have time to go home to talk to their constituents and actually read the bill.” [What a concept. – ed.]

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171 comments

Leonidas Hoplite Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:44:32am

FAIL

Honorary Yooper Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:45:11am

Somehow, I don’t think Pelosi has the votes.

_RememberTonyC Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:45:33am

all of a sudden the invincible one looks “vincible.”

Sharmuta Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:45:36am

Thank God for the Blue Dogs- we’d be screwed without them.

Creeping Eruption Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:46:06am

Who the hell do they think they are …”Reading the bill” … geez.

MikeAlv77 Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:46:09am

Great… Now the Nirthers can really turn it up since people will forget about this…

And most Americans will worry more about who is in the playoffs or who won the latest idol…

Sharmuta Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:46:26am

I think read bills before a vote should be mandatory.

[deleted] Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:46:28am

Sharmuta Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:46:40am

reading- pimf.

Honorary Yooper Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:46:40am

re: #4 Sharmuta

Thank God for the Blue Dogs- we’d be screwed without them.

Maybe it’s time for a new party made of sane Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats. Then we can leave the nutters to the likes of Huckabee on one side, and Pelosi on the other.

Mike McDaniel Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:47:08am

There is one problem with this scheme.

It assumes that the liberals can actually read. There is no evidence to date that this is true.

Idle Drifter Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:47:13am

About time someone decided it would be a good idea to read +1000 pages of a bill before voting on the damn thing.

JamesTKirk Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:47:27am

re: #5 Creeping Eruption

Who the hell do they think they are …”Reading the bill” … geez.

//

I’m not entirely sure that some of them can read.

doppelganglander Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:47:43am

re: #10 Honorary Yooper

Maybe it’s time for a new party made of sane Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats. Then we can leave the nutters to the likes of Huckabee on one side, and Pelosi on the other.

I like that idea very much.

LGoPs Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:47:46am

The country just got a temporary stay of execution…

MikeAlv77 Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:47:55am

I fear this will also give them time to put even MORE ear-marks in this Obama-nation

Desert Dog Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:48:01am

re: #7 Sharmuta

I think read bills before a vote should be mandatory.

What happened to posting them online for ALL SEE PRIOR TO THE VOTE? Was that a LIE?

Cato the Elder Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:48:07am

Wasn’t this the story a week ago?

Desert Dog Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:48:13am

re: #16 MikeAlv77

I fear this will also give them time to put even MORE ear-marks in this Obama-nation

You are probably right.

Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:48:32am

The Dems will be calling the Blue Dogs throughout the break. WE need to call and write them. The Dems will promise them the world.

LGoPs Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:48:33am

re: #7 Sharmuta

I think read bills before a vote should be mandatory.

Anything less shuold be considered gross incompetence and dereliction of duty.

JamesTKirk Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:48:44am

re: #12 Idle Drifter

About time someone decided it would be a good idea to read +1000 pages of a bill before voting on the damn thing.

Remember all the hoo-hah over Congressmen not reading the Patriot Act before signing it? Whatever happened to that?

Targetpractice Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:48:56am

So, what’s the over/under on how many new assholes Nancy has ripped over the fact that this bill did not make it to a vote before the recess?

albusteve Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:49:29am

I would rather it be defeated as written now…time is not in conservatives favor

sattv4u2 Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:49:36am

The Blue Dogs have cut a deal with House Dems

TRANSLATION

The Blue Dogs do NOT want to be confronted by their constituents WHILE AT HOME ,, ON VACATION

I appluad them, but remain wary about what deals (pork) they’ll be offered once they are back in session

opnion Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:50:14am

re: #2 Honorary Yooper

Somehow, I don’t think Pelosi has the votes.

Yeah, but first Obama guaranteed a vote before the recess. He backed off & then that intellectual Pelosi guaranteed it.

Jack Burton Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:50:54am

re: #7 Sharmuta

I think read bills before a vote should be mandatory.

I think that once a bill is written and makes it out of committee, that voting on it should be postponed for 1 day per every 10 to 20 pages of it.

Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:50:56am

Karl Rove, you sneaky bastard!

subsailor68 Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:51:46am

Not feeling good about this.

Delaying a vote until August was a key demand of the Blue Dogs, along with reducing the cost of the bill by $100 billion and allowing states to create health “co-ops” that would compete with the government-run “public option” and private insurers.

Cut it by $100 billion? Gee thanks…so now it’s only $900 billion? Phew.

State co-ops? To compete with government-run “public option”? States are governments too, remember? And Massachusetts has demonstrated how that all works out.

“We cut the cost of the bill, delayed a floor vote and ensured that the public option will not be forced on anyone,” said Rep. Mike Ross (D-Ark.) who has led the negotiations for the Blue Dogs.

Horse hockey. The only non-public option is the private insurer, and those folks will most likely be forced out because they won’t be able compete with government backed options. And when the private insurers are gone, the rhetoric Ross uses will be irrelevant - as the only option left will be public one.

CyanSnowHawk Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:52:08am

…allowing states to create health “co-ops” that would compete with the government-run “public option” and private insurers.

So one of the alternatives to a single inefficient, bureaucracy ridden, glacially paced, and overbearing Government run health care system is 51 inefficient, bureaucracy ridden, glacially paced, and overbearing Government health care systems?

albusteve Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:52:46am

do Blue Dogs outnumber RINOs?…I think I trust the BDs more to stick to their principle, whatever that is

Sharmuta Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:53:11am

Not only should reading a bill be mandatory- COngressional pay raises should have to get approved by the American electorate.

I’m really pissed off right now these people can vote themselves a pay raise in this time of economic crisis while so many other Americans are hurting.

Between not doing their job and paying themselves more for it- I’m really pissed. Anyone else pulling this sort of thing on the job wouldn’t have a job.

lawhawk Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:53:22am

Well, let’s see what else we can find out with the time we’re given.

Oh yeah, how about the hundreds of millions in fraudulent Medicare claims filed in just two months’ time. AG Holder announced the arrest of 145 people around the country, responsible for $371 million in fraudulent claims.

Yeah, I say cut down on the fraud before we go around talking about trillion dollar rejiggering of the health care industry that wont save a red cent.

Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:53:23am

Obama only wants it passed because it contains a hidden clause saying that anyone born in Kenya, with or without a valid nirth certificate, can be President!!!

Leonidas Hoplite Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:54:02am

re: #29 subsailor68

Not feeling good about this.

Delaying a vote until August was a key demand of the Blue Dogs, along with reducing the cost of the bill by $100 billion and allowing states to create health “co-ops” that would compete with the government-run “public option” and private insurers.

Cut it by $100 billion? Gee thanks…so now it’s only $900 billion? Phew.

State co-ops? To compete with government-run “public option”? States are governments too, remember? And Massachusetts has demonstrated how that all works out.

“We cut the cost of the bill, delayed a floor vote and ensured that the public option will not be forced on anyone,” said Rep. Mike Ross (D-Ark.) who has led the negotiations for the Blue Dogs.

Horse hockey. The only non-public option is the private insurer, and those folks will most likely be forced out because they won’t be able compete with government backed options. And when the private insurers are gone, the rhetoric Ross uses will be irrelevant - as the only option left will be public one.

They don’t care because they won’t be using it.

SixDegrees Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:54:22am

Time to work the phone, faxes, emails and ordinary mails until they smoke. It is critical to take advantage of this gift of additional time to make your voices heard in Congress. Even if your representatives support the bill, they need to hear loud and clear that their constituents oppose it. And wavering representatives, whether yours or not, need encouragement to hold their ground on the right side of this bill - the side that votes to defeat it.

albusteve Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:54:29am

re: #32 Sharmuta

Not only should reading a bill be mandatory- COngressional pay raises should have to get approved by the American electorate.

I’m really pissed off right now these people can vote themselves a pay raise in this time of economic crisis while so many other Americans are hurting.

Between not doing their job and paying themselves more for it- I’m really pissed. Anyone else pulling this sort of thing on the job wouldn’t have a job.

you don’t count
I hate the feds

kansas Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:54:29am

re: #20 Cannadian Club Akbar

The Dems will be calling the Blue Dogs throughout the break. WE need to call and write them. The Dems will promise them the world.

I live in a conservative area with a lib representative, Dennis Moore. He calls himself a Blue Dog. That’s not what I call him. He’ll vote for anything the leadership tells him to.

JamesTKirk Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:54:30am

Is there a clause in there about medical marijuana for all? That would explain why the moonbats are in such a hurry to pass it…

_RememberTonyC Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:55:28am

re: #34 Mad Al-Jaffee

Obama only wants it passed because it contains a hidden clause saying that anyone born in Kenya, with or without a valid nirth certificate, can be President!!!

even if they’re a muslim …

Walter L. Newton Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:55:45am

re: #33 lawhawk

Well, let’s see what else we can find out with the time we’re given.

Oh yeah, how about the hundreds of millions in fraudulent Medicare claims filed in just two months’ time. AG Holder announced the arrest of 145 people around the country, responsible for $371 million in fraudulent claims.

Yeah, I say cut down on the fraud before we go around talking about trillion dollar rejiggering of the health care industry that wont save a red cent.

There is no time, we must vote, must vote, vote…
//

Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:56:12am

re: #38 kansas

I live in a conservative area with a lib representative, Dennis Moore. He calls himself a Blue Dog. That’s not what I call him. He’ll vote for anything the leadership tells him to.

Call and let him know his next title will be EX-CONGRESSMAN

LGoPs Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:56:15am

re: #32 Sharmuta

Not only should reading a bill be mandatory- COngressional pay raises should have to get approved by the American electorate.

I’m really pissed off right now these people can vote themselves a pay raise in this time of economic crisis while so many other Americans are hurting.

Between not doing their job and paying themselves more for it- I’m really pissed. Anyone else pulling this sort of thing on the job wouldn’t have a job.

I’m also highly pissed that they have a different set of standards for the benefits that they get. They should fall under the very same regulations that they will be imposing on the rest of us. After all, we do not have a political aristocracy in this country, much as many of these bastards would like to.

opnion Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:56:38am

This health plan is a mess. It has language to the effect that nothing in the bill mandates coverage for non citizens. But nothing forbids it & the Dem’s refused that kind of language.

Cato the Elder Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:56:50am

Um, I’ve got news for you all.

No one - not Democrat, not Republican, not Luap Nor - reads these thousand-page bills. No one. Not ever.

They vote up or down depending on how much their own little pud gets greased in the down-deep details. The basic outline of the legislation +/- what it does for me/my constituents/my mistress = aye/nay.

In every case.

Does anyone here seriously believe this started with Obama? I defy a normal human being to go back and read any budget bill from the last, oh, 35 years and actually read it.

Can’t. Be. Done.

albusteve Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:57:00am

re: #33 lawhawk

Well, let’s see what else we can find out with the time we’re given.

Oh yeah, how about the hundreds of millions in fraudulent Medicare claims filed in just two months’ time. AG Holder announced the arrest of 145 people around the country, responsible for $371 million in fraudulent claims.

Yeah, I say cut down on the fraud before we go around talking about trillion dollar rejiggering of the health care industry that wont save a red cent.

Medicare has spawned many millionaires over the years…trial lawyers hve feasted…there is rampant corruption in the system…uninsured costs are a drop in the bucket compared

SixDegrees Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:57:05am

re: #29 subsailor68

Not feeling good about this.

Delaying a vote until August was a key demand of the Blue Dogs, along with reducing the cost of the bill by $100 billion and allowing states to create health “co-ops” that would compete with the government-run “public option” and private insurers.

Cut it by $100 billion? Gee thanks…so now it’s only $900 billion? Phew.

State co-ops? To compete with government-run “public option”? States are governments too, remember? And Massachusetts has demonstrated how that all works out.

“We cut the cost of the bill, delayed a floor vote and ensured that the public option will not be forced on anyone,” said Rep. Mike Ross (D-Ark.) who has led the negotiations for the Blue Dogs.

Horse hockey. The only non-public option is the private insurer, and those folks will most likely be forced out because they won’t be able compete with government backed options. And when the private insurers are gone, the rhetoric Ross uses will be irrelevant - as the only option left will be public one.

Their opposition to the original bill has bought precious time, an invaluable gift. The more the public learns about the details of this proposal, the less support it will receive. Let’s use the extra time to get the word out on the contents.

subsailor68 Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:57:58am

re: #39 JamesTKirk

Is there a clause in there about medical marijuana for all? That would explain why the moonbats are in such a hurry to pass it…

“Hey! What’s this orange stuff all over the bill?”
“Cheetos dude!”
“You’ve had the bill for over three weeks now. How far have you read?”
“Looks, uh, like maybe page two, man. I could really use a pizza.”

Creeping Eruption Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:58:26am

re: #46 albusteve

Medicare has spawned many millionaires over the years…trial lawyers hve feasted…there is rampant corruption in the system…uninsured costs are a drop in the bucket compared

I just gotta ask, huh?

BlueCanuck Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:58:48am

re: #45 Cato the Elder

Not disagreeing with you. These bills should be written so that they can be read and understood by any body. We have the same type of problem up here as well. So much legalese in the bloody things that it’s a snooze fest by the time you get through 5 pages.

Lincolntf Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:59:08am

Reading the bill? Is that like some kind of literacy test for Congress? Racists!

lawhawk Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:59:24am

re: #41 Walter L. Newton

Oompa Loompa doom-pa-dee-do
I have a perfect puzzle for you
Oompa Loompa doom-pa-dee-dee
If you are wise, you’ll listen to me
What do you get when you pass bills without reading?
Spending as much as an whale weighs
What are you at getting terribly fat?
What do you think will come of that?

I don’t like the look of it

albusteve Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:59:27am

re: #49 Creeping Eruption

I just gotta ask, huh?

John Edwards…just one of thousands…where is the tort reform?

Buck Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:59:53am

Put the bill out on the internet… let the Herd go through it page by page.

We will have it dissected ten different ways in a couple of days.

Creeping Eruption Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:00:01pm

re: #53 albusteve

John Edwards…just one of thousands…where is the tort reform?

What does that have to do with Medicare?

Cato the Elder Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:00:04pm

re: #50 BlueCanuck

Not disagreeing with you. These bills should be written so that they can be read and understood by any body. We have the same type of problem up here as well. So much legalese in the bloody things that it’s a snooze fest by the time you get through 5 pages.

It could be done. But then constituents would read them, too, and it would be all up with the game.

Sharmuta Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:00:14pm

re: #45 Cato the Elder

Um, I’ve got news for you all.

No one - not Democrat, not Republican, not Luap Nor - reads these thousand-page bills. No one. Not ever.

They vote up or down depending on how much their own little pud gets greased in the down-deep details. The basic outline of the legislation +/- what it does for me/my constituents/my mistress = aye/nay.

In every case.

Does anyone here seriously believe this started with Obama? I defy a normal human being to go back and read any budget bill from the last, oh, 35 years and actually read it.

Can’t. Be. Done.

I agree. Still doesn’t make it right.

subsailor68 Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:00:21pm

re: #47 SixDegrees

Their opposition to the original bill has bought precious time, an invaluable gift. The more the public learns about the details of this proposal, the less support it will receive. Let’s use the extra time to get the word out on the contents.

Hi Six!! From your lips to God’s ear! The hard part is to get a realistically update copy - as sections, pages, etc. all change fairly quickly. But I’m with ya!

Desert Dog Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:00:52pm

re: #45 Cato the Elder

Um, I’ve got news for you all.

No one - not Democrat, not Republican, not Luap Nor - reads these thousand-page bills. No one. Not ever.

They vote up or down depending on how much their own little pud gets greased in the down-deep details. The basic outline of the legislation +/- what it does for me/my constituents/my mistress = aye/nay.

In every case.

Does anyone here seriously believe this started with Obama? I defy a normal human being to go back and read any budget bill from the last, oh, 35 years and actually read it.

Can’t. Be. Done.

That’s why they have staff members read those bills. They read them when they have too. They help write the bills, many if not most know what’s in there. The committee members the bill comes from certainly do.

It’s the general public that doesn’t have a clue about what’s in many of these bills.

Van Helsing Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:00:53pm

re: #44 opnion

This health plan is a mess. It has language to the effect that nothing in the bill mandates coverage for non citizens. But nothing forbids it & the Dem’s refused that kind of language.

Are you surprised?

Kenneth Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:01:05pm

Has Obama already asked how many millions of uninsured Americans will die as a result of the negative politics of the past resulting in this unnecessary delay in implementing these urgently needed reforms?

And did he mention, he inherited this mess from Bush?

JamesTKirk Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:01:26pm

re: #52 lawhawk

Oompa Loompa doom-pa-dee-do
I have a perfect puzzle for you
Oompa Loompa doom-pa-dee-dee
If you are wise, you’ll listen to me
What do you get when you pass bills ~~without reading~~ unread?
Spending ~~as much as an whale weighs~~ until you are deep in the red
What are you at getting terribly fat?
What do you think will come of that?

I don’t like the look of it

opnion Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:02:09pm

re: #60 Van Helsing

Are you surprised?

Not at all, lock in the potential Dem voters.

kansas Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:02:11pm

re: #42 Cannadian Club Akbar

Call and let him know his next title will be EX-CONGRESSMAN

I’ve called and written, but the thing is Kansas only has 4 representatives and part of his district, about 1/3, is my conservative area, upper middle class, but also the other 2/3 a county that is heavily democrat and poor, and the county where the University of Kansas is. They hold their cars together with Obama bumper stickers. 2/3’s of the people want the other 1/3 to support them.

Mournie Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:02:34pm

The deal split the seven Blue Dogs who had been threatening to block the bill. Waxman struck the deal with only four.

“We never expected it to be 100 percent,” Ross said. “It’s hard to get unanimity around her to name a post office.”

Ross joined with Reps. Bart Gordon (D-Tenn.), Baron Hill (D-Ind.) and Zack Space (D-Ohio). The three who did not agree to the deal are Reps. John Barrow (D-Ga.), Charlie Melancon (D-La.) and Jim Matheson (D-Utah).

lawhawk Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:02:35pm

re: #62 JamesTKirk

I’m no buzzsaw… that’s for sure.

Dianna Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:02:51pm

re: #15 LGoPs

The country just got a temporary stay of execution…

Just remember that nothing so concentrates the mind as the knowledge one is to be hanged in the morning.

Viking6 Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:03:07pm

re: #33 lawhawk
That would require that the government have a reasonably competent law enforcement group that could accomplish this. Under the current administration that really does not seem possible.

albusteve Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:03:17pm

re: #55 Creeping Eruption

What does that have to do with Medicare?

nothing…Medicare bleeds dollars…tort laws bleed dollars…they both are corrupt and suck money out of the system…somebody should do a study…uninsured costs are a small part of the problem…just over 2% of the total cost

Creeping Eruption Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:03:39pm

re: #68 Viking6

That would require that the government have a reasonably competent law enforcement group that could accomplish this. Under the current administration that really does not seem possible.

It would probably help if congress would move on US Attorney appointments.

opnion Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:04:10pm

If Obama does not get a health bill, in my opinion he will be seriously wounded. The Demigod aura will be gone.
I think that he will sign just about anything to avoid the humiliation.

Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:04:11pm

OT: CAIR Air Helmet

flyovercountry Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:04:14pm

Take these little victories where we can get them. With precious few Republicans in office, there is no way these guys are not going to get something passed. When these congress folk go home for the break, they will face an angry electorate. Their constituents don’t want this rubbish. The Democrats were able to take the house by running a bunch of guys as conservative Democrats. If they pass this bill, they will most certainly lose their seats, and to a man, they know this. In its present form, this bill is dead. What will ultimately pass, will look like an expanded Medicare and nothing more.

Desert Dog Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:04:31pm

re: #61 Kenneth

Has Obama already asked how many millions of uninsured Americans will die as a result of the negative politics of the past resulting in this unnecessary delay in implementing these urgently needed reforms?

And did he mention, he inherited this mess from Bush?

Bush will be out personally killing sick people if we don’t pass this now.

JamesTKirk Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:04:40pm

re: #70 Creeping Eruption

It would probably help if congress would move on US Attorney appointments.

That really depends upon the appointees.

experiencedtraveller Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:05:17pm

When Obama starts giving me free medical stuff, the first thing I’m gonna demand is a full cranial CAT scan.

Not that I have any problems with my skull, I just think it would be cool to hang on my wall.

Desert Dog Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:05:43pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

OT: CAIR Air Helmet

I was expecting something to do with Allah and his holy words imparted to his only Prophet. Instead, we get “fart guard”? :-)

Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:05:45pm

re: #71 opnion

Probably. They’ll pass whatever comprimise bill they can get. The result will probably be fairly useless.

brent Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:06:06pm

I just heard Obama say there were no earmarks in the Porkulus bill - he really said that, I didn’t just have a stroke, right?

Is the economy careening off a cliff or all better now? Does it really just depend on whether or not Barry’s talking about stimulus or healthcare legislation? What a freeking liar.

Rush was right - the blue dogs are democrats first and foremost. Read the bill? Har. I hope they get reamed from their constituents over the break. We’ll get reamed by them when they get back.

Dianna Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:06:06pm

re: #45 Cato the Elder

Um, I’ve got news for you all.

No one - not Democrat, not Republican, not Luap Nor - reads these thousand-page bills. No one. Not ever.

They vote up or down depending on how much their own little pud gets greased in the down-deep details. The basic outline of the legislation +/- what it does for me/my constituents/my mistress = aye/nay.

In every case.

Does anyone here seriously believe this started with Obama? I defy a normal human being to go back and read any budget bill from the last, oh, 35 years and actually read it.

Can’t. Be. Done.

While you are correct, I can at least request they read the executive summary their long suffering aides produced for them.

albusteve Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:06:09pm

re: #71 opnion

If Obama does not get a health bill, in my opinion he will be seriously wounded. The Demigod aura will be gone.
I think that he will sign just about anything to avoid the humiliation.

of course…exactly the reason a very bad bill may be passed…he does not give a shit about quality legislation…what the fuck does he know about economics…a dangerous idealist

Ben Hur Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:06:35pm

He’s worried! You cut him! You hurt him! You see? You see? He’s not a machine, he’s a man!

-Rocky IV

(Hit the one in the middle)

Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:06:38pm

re: #77 Desert Dog
Mohamed predicted the hat in the suras.

BlueCanuck Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:06:46pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

OT: CAIR Air Helmet

Neat, now make it as sturdy as a bike helmet and I could be really interested. Would also be great for those rainy day rides.

opnion Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:07:32pm

re: #78 Killgore Trout

Probably. They’ll pass whatever comprimise bill they can get. The result will probably be fairly useless.

That’s what I think. He can have a big signing ceremony & get back slaps, but it won’t have any real meaning.

Creeping Eruption Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:07:34pm

re: #76 experiencedtraveller

When Obama starts giving me free medical stuff, the first thing I’m gonna demand is a full cranial CAT scan.

Not that I have any problems with my skull, I just think it would be cool to hang on my wall.

Um … CT scanners are pretty big. Not sure it would fit on your fall. Besides, even if health care is free, I’m not sure we will get a free CT scanner with every hospital visit. Who knows though?

acwgusa Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:07:51pm

Anyone wanting to see what U.S. Government health care will look like should look to California’s implementation of Medicaid. And remember that California went broke. And then start bombarding their Senators and Representatives.

nikis-knight Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:08:19pm

re: #4 Sharmuta

Thank God for the Blue Dogs- we’d be screwed without them.

Well, if they vote for this, we likely will be without them come re-election.

acwgusa Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:08:33pm

re: #87 acwgusa

Anyone wanting to see what U.S. Government health care will look like should look to California’s implementation of Medicaid. And remember that California went broke. And then start bombarding their Senators and Representatives.

Whoops! I mean bombarding them with phone calls and letters. Damn! I didn’t think that one through enough before I hit post!

Dianna Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:08:37pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

That’s idiotic. Air quality hasn’t improved?! Do these people simply live in a perpetual state of panic, or do they ever, even once a year, engage the brains their parents paid to educate?

Creeping Eruption Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:08:43pm

re: #77 Desert Dog

I was expecting something to do with Allah and his holy words imparted to his only Prophet. Instead, we get “fart guard”? :-)

Unless someone farts on your head. Then its a full shot right up the nostrils! LOL.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:08:49pm

re: #83 Killgore Trout

Mohamed predicted the hat in the suras.

I think he could have predicted it, but decided that if people didn’t know they’d be happier. Why tell them what dorks their descendents would look?

Land Shark Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:08:53pm

_ “Members will have time to go home to talk to their constituents and actually read the bill.” [What a concept. – ed.]

I’m sure my fellow Lizards, being the informed bunch you are, recall one of Obama’s campaign promises was to give enough time for bills to be considered and studied by all. Yet he’s been at the forefront of doing exactly the opposite, trying to stampede and scare people into supporting and approving sweeping major bills like the Stimulus and Health Care bills. Thankfully we’re seeing some sanity among Congressional Democrats, hopefully citizens will use this break to express their views on this to their elected representatives. Surveys I’ve seen say health care reform is far from a big priority for the American people, the economy being the No. 1 concern by a landslide. Remember, the Health Care reform bit isn’t about what the American people want, it’s all about President Egobama and what he wants.

acwgusa Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:09:11pm

re: #91 Creeping Eruption

Unless someone farts on your head. Then its a full shot right up the nostrils! LOL.

Dutch Oven! Ewww!

Desert Dog Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:09:23pm

re: #87 acwgusa

Anyone wanting to see what U.S. Government health care will look like should look to California’s implementation of Medicaid. And remember that California went broke. And then start bombarding their Senators and Representatives.

Yes, but they are woefully short of money printing presses…whereas President Obama has many over at the Dept. of Treasury to use at his whim.
/

jill e Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:09:26pm

From Byron York (Washington Examiner):

In July 2001, I wrote an article for National Review on George W. Bush’s job approval ratings, which I said were “wandering listlessly in the low 50 percent range.” Bush pollster Matthew Dowd gave me the full confidence talk, claiming that “Fifty-two or 53 percent is basically [Bush’s] equilibrium point.” But the clear feeling among Republicans at the time was concern that Bush, who had won office by the tiniest margin imaginable, after an extended recount and court battle, was unable to rise above the low 50s in job approval. Now, we have a president who won by a solid margin amid great acclamation, and he’s at nearly the same point.

Back in 2001, I asked a well-connected Democratic strategist what Bush’s low-50s numbers meant for Democrats. The answer I got is outdated in its details but spot-on about what falling poll numbers mean. “The numbers…tell Tom Daschle to push full steam ahead on patients’ bill of rights and make Bush veto it,” the strategist said. “They tell Dick Gephardt to push full steam ahead on a discharge petition and a vote on campaign finance reform and make the president veto it. They tell Democrats to push full steam ahead on the environment.”

Weeks later, September 11 changed the calculation for Bush. But when a president’s job approval numbers are falling, heading toward 50 percent, the message the opposition takes from that is as clear today as it was then: attack, attack, attack.

opnion Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:09:40pm

re: #81 albusteve

of course…exactly the reason a very bad bill may be passed…he does not give a shit about quality legislation…what the fuck does he know about economics…a dangerous idealist

He knows painfully little about economics, but he is an expert about overblown ego.
If he signs a watered down, harmless bill, great

Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:09:50pm

re: #84 BlueCanuck

More details here: Personalized Gas Chamber

Ben Hur Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:10:02pm

re: #45 Cato the Elder

Um, I’ve got news for you all.

No one - not Democrat, not Republican, not Luap Nor - reads these thousand-page bills. No one. Not ever.

They vote up or down depending on how much their own little pud gets greased in the down-deep details. The basic outline of the legislation +/- what it does for me/my constituents/my mistress = aye/nay.

In every case.

Does anyone here seriously believe this started with Obama? I defy a normal human being to go back and read any budget bill from the last, oh, 35 years and actually read it.

Can’t. Be. Done.

True.

But a POTUS should at least be informed enough to be able to answer most policy questions of his pet project, no matter how large.

When asked by a lefty blogger about people losing their private coverage (something the blogger read in the bill), Obama answered, “I’m not aware of that provision…”

That is not minutia(?), and to me is unacceptable.

100

BlueCanuck Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:10:08pm

re: #90 Dianna

Well, having biked in traffic in a big city, something like this looks a lot better then the face mask filters they sell. And looks a lot cooler as well.

/cooler as in temperature wise.

101

Lincolntf Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:10:11pm

re: #89 acwgusa

Too late. Peace re-education for you. Get in the truck…

102

Creeping Eruption Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:10:42pm

re: #94 acwgusa

Dutch Oven! Ewww!

Portable Dutch Oven!

103

Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:10:51pm

re: #91 Creeping Eruption

Unless someone farts on your head. Then its a full shot right up the nostrils! LOL.

Tape a joint to the intake.

104

opnion Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:10:53pm

Later gators.

105

albusteve Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:11:48pm

re: #97 opnion

He knows painfully little about economics, but he is an expert about overblown ego.
If he signs a watered down, harmless bill, great

I want this first go round defeated…it makes a difference to me…give him nothing…nada zip zero

106

subsailor68 Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:12:21pm

re: #73 flyovercountry

Take these little victories where we can get them. With precious few Republicans in office, there is no way these guys are not going to get something passed. When these congress folk go home for the break, they will face an angry electorate. Their constituents don’t want this rubbish. The Democrats were able to take the house by running a bunch of guys as conservative Democrats. If they pass this bill, they will most certainly lose their seats, and to a man, they know this. In its present form, this bill is dead. What will ultimately pass, will look like an expanded Medicare and nothing more.

Hi flyover! I tend to agree with ya. But even an expanded Medicare could be catastrophic, as the latest estimates are that it will be bankrupt by 2019 - eleven years earlier that previously estimated. Here’s kind of an interesting article:

Managing without Medicare: with experts projecting bankruptcy by 2019, how will you handle future medical expenses?

From the article:

Antos expects Congress to keep Medicare solvent by taking actions such as raising payroll taxes, reducing benefits, and increasing co-payments for premium services. But these measures are mostly seen as temporary fixes, not long-term solutions…

107

nikis-knight Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:12:25pm

re: #45 Cato the Elder

Um, I’ve got news for you all.

Nope, that’s not news. It is a little more irritating when the bills in question seek radical change on trillion dollar scales, though.

And if it gets people irritated enough for congresscritters to at least seek out an appearance of being informed, all the better. “Ignorance of the law is no excuse” shouldn’t apply to voting for it.

108

[deleted] Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:12:49pm

109

Dianna Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:13:11pm

re: #100 BlueCanuck

Well, having biked in traffic in a big city, something like this looks a lot better then the face mask filters they sell. And looks a lot cooler as well.

/cooler as in temperature wise.

Now there, you have a point. I nearly threw up when I got stuck beside a big diesel.

110

acwgusa Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:13:19pm

re: #101 Lincolntf

Too late. Peace re-education for you. Get in the truck…

Re-education? I was never educated in being peaceful in the first place!

111

Walter L. Newton Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:14:33pm

re: #78 Killgore Trout

Probably. They’ll pass whatever comprimise bill they can get. The result will probably be fairly useless.

I agree, but I will take that one step further. Useless and dangerous to ones health, especially if you are a senior citizen.

112

revobob Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:15:26pm

re: #89 acwgusa

Whoops! I mean bombarding them with phone calls and letters. Damn! I didn’t think that one through enough before I hit post!

As a Californian, I kinda like the first version…

113

Ward Cleaver Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:16:38pm

YAAAY! It’s like somebody said on the radio yesterday - this will slow things down for a few weeks and allow a better, deeper analysis of what’s in the bill, so that we can crush this thing, like the Bush/McCain/Kennedy shamnesty bil.

114

acwgusa Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:16:46pm

re: #112 revobob

As a Californian, I kinda like the first version…

I know, but it’s Charles’ House, and I’m playing by his rules.

115

Wendya Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:18:53pm

re: #23 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So, what’s the over/under on how many new assholes Nancy has ripped over the fact that this bill did not make it to a vote before the recess?

Nancy can’t do a damned thing to them.

They were elected in semi-conservative districts and they fear their constituents far more than they fear the hag.

116

Cato the Elder Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:19:04pm

Hey, Charles: Despite claiming they would take action, it’s been a month since I told the folks at Amazon Kindle about “Jimmy Dale” and his nearly 3,000 rip-off e-books - where he’s copying from Wikipedia (badly) and selling the (crap) results as “books”. Or cutting and pasting from Catholic and Jewish websites on how to pray and flogging free religious stuff for pay. They didn’t even remove the one I specifically complained about and got a refund for.

So today I tipped the NYT and WaPo business desks a wink. They were, shall we say, very interested. Immediate callbacks. Still waiting on the Boston Globe. The name “Jimmy Dale” may soon become a household word, at least in households that read.

The Orwell stuff was just the tip of the iceberg. Kindle needs to clean house or it will become the Craigslist of online booksellers.

117

Big Steve Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:21:52pm

If you actually want to read the bill yourself it is here…AAHCA Bill

I have started. While it is 1030 pages, it is double spaced and wide margins so it is not as bad as it sounds.

118

iLikeCandy Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:21:59pm

I don’t know squat about these legislative procedures. Can someone tell me what it means that Waxman’s committee gets to continue its “markup”? How is that a concession of the Blue Dogs?

119

Targetpractice Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:22:16pm

re: #115 Wendya

Nancy can’t do a damned thing to them.

They were elected in semi-conservative districts and they fear their constituents far more than they fear the hag.

Trust me, Nancy’s doin’ some arm-twistin’ behind the scenes. It not only reflects poorly on Obama if this bill doesn’t pass, it also makes her and Harry look bad for not being able to get all the apes in line long enough to vote it through. And First Female Speaker of the House or not, the Dem Party is not at all impressed with her performance.

120

acwgusa Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:23:31pm

re: #114 acwgusa

I know, but it’s Charles’ House, and I’m playing by his rules.

And to follow up on myself, I want to make sure that anything I say is aboveboard, and doesn’t reflect on Charles. I like it here, and don’t want to get booted for being untoward.

121

wahabicorridor Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:24:55pm

re: #115 Wendya

Nancy can’t do a damned thing to them.

They were elected in semi-conservative districts and they fear their constituents far more than they fear the hag.

Beg to differ. She can try to withhold DNC fund for their re-elctions and run challengers in their primaries (not that I think it’s a good idea on her part - but she can make them miserable)

122

Wendya Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:25:10pm

re: #119 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Trust me, Nancy’s doin’ some arm-twistin’ behind the scenes.

She can twist all she wants but I doubt there are many blue dogs who will be willing to sacrifice their “career” over this. Nancy needs them… they don’t need her.

123

acwgusa Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:25:36pm

re: #121 wahabicorridor

Beg to differ. She can try to withhold DNC fund for their re-elctions and run challengers in their primaries (not that I think it’s a good idea on her part - but she can make them miserable)

Then they can amend the Health Care to ban selling Botox to her.

124

Land Shark Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:26:34pm

re: #45 Cato the Elder

Can’t argue with you there. Even with Obama’s campaign promise to post bills online and give people time to consider them, if the people in Congress don’t take the time to read and analyze them it’s a moot point. I’m sure this isn’t something new.

But then, it’s their freaking job and maybe it’s time we citizens start expecting them to do so. And holding their feet to fire, it’s our life and money, after all, these clowns are playing with. They’re supposed to be our elected representatives, aren’t they?

And if it cuts into their golfing, party or mistress time, F them.

125

revobob Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:26:40pm

re: #120 acwgusa

And to follow up on myself, I want to make sure that anything I say is aboveboard, and doesn’t reflect on Charles. I like it here, and don’t want to get booted for being untoward.

You’re right, and me too. Sorry if my comment was over the line.

126

wahabicorridor Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:27:16pm

re: #118 iLikeCandy

I don’t know squat about these legislative procedures. Can someone tell me what it means that Waxman’s committee gets to continue its “markup”? How is that a concession of the Blue Dogs?

A transcript of the testimony taken at a hearing is made available for inspection in the committee office, and frequently the complete transcript is printed and distributed by the committee.

After hearings are completed, the bill is considered in a session that is popularly known as the “mark-up” session. Members of the committee study the viewpoints presented in detail. Amendments may be offered to the bill, and the committee members vote to accept or reject these changes.

This process can take place at either the subcommittee level or the full committee level, or at both. Hearings and markup sessions are status steps noted in the Legislative Action portion of Bill Status.

127

outsidephilly Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:27:43pm

Here is the website Joe Sestak’s office pointed me to regarding the Health Care bill:
Your text to link…

128

Flyovercountry Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:28:27pm

re: #106 subsailor68

Hi flyover! I tend to agree with ya. But even an expanded Medicare could be catastrophic, as the latest estimates are that it will be bankrupt by 2019 - eleven years earlier that previously estimated. Here’s kind of an interesting article:

Managing without Medicare: with experts projecting bankruptcy by 2019, how will you handle future medical expenses?

From the article:

Antos expects Congress to keep Medicare solvent by taking actions such as raising payroll taxes, reducing benefits, and increasing co-payments for premium services. But these measures are mostly seen as temporary fixes, not long-term solutions…

I agree that it stinks, but the choices are extremely limited. We hold none of the cards anymore. We blew it when we started letting the Liberals pick our candidates for us. The moment we decided we needed to compromise our ideals to maintain electability, we lost this debate. The cost of this is some form of expanded government health care. While Medicare is a debacle, an expanded version will be far less destructive than a complete government takeover. This is a hard lesson to learn, but it is one which we deserve. The discussion should always center around core principles, and not who has the best chance of getting elected. I don’t like the S**t sandwich either, but it is with us none the less.

129

Targetpractice Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:29:48pm

re: #122 Wendya

She can twist all she wants but I doubt there are many blue dogs who will be willing to sacrifice their “career” over this. Nancy needs them… they don’t need her.

As wahabi pointed out, Nancy can threaten to withhold campaign funds and run challengers against them, not to mention refuse to endorse their reelection bids. And then there’s using the plethora, the veritable cornucopia, of House rules and regs to stop them from getting any earmarks added to bills, which hurts them back at home when they can not take credit for any pork going back to their districts.

130

wahabicorridor Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:30:46pm

Food Safety Bill just died in the House.

That was a stinker, too

131

outsidephilly Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:31:30pm

Here is the text version of the Health care bill as per Joe Sestak’s office:
Your text to link…

132

Dianna Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:32:50pm

re: #112 revobob

As a Californian, I kinda like the first version…

Alcohol and black powder!

133

wahabicorridor Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:33:42pm

re: #129 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And then there’s using the plethora, the veritable cornucopia, of House rules and regs to stop them from getting any earmarks added to bills,

And she’s just stupid enough to try it. She’s already deeply disliked by about half the delegation. That kind of petty crap would alienate a lot of people. I’ve said this before, but I think Steny Hoyer is starting to look pretty good in many peoples’ eyes

134

outsidephilly Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:36:47pm

re: #45 Cato the Elder

Um, I’ve got news for you all.

No one - not Democrat, not Republican, not Luap Nor - reads these thousand-page bills. No one. Not ever.

They vote up or down depending on how much their own little pud gets greased in the down-deep details. The basic outline of the legislation +/- what it does for me/my constituents/my mistress = aye/nay.

In every case.

Does anyone here seriously believe this started with Obama? I defy a normal human being to go back and read any budget bill from the last, oh, 35 years and actually read it.

Can’t. Be. Done.

Here’s the Health Care reform text version link, I got it from Joe Sestak’s office:
Your text to link…

…let the reading begin!

135

Ward Cleaver Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:37:20pm

re: #116 Cato the Elder

Hey, Charles: Despite claiming they would take action, it’s been a month since I told the folks at Amazon Kindle about “Jimmy Dale” and his nearly 3,000 rip-off e-books - where he’s copying from Wikipedia (badly) and selling the (crap) results as “books”. Or cutting and pasting from Catholic and Jewish websites on how to pray and flogging free religious stuff for pay. They didn’t even remove the one I specifically complained about and got a refund for.

So today I tipped the NYT and WaPo business desks a wink. They were, shall we say, very interested. Immediate callbacks. Still waiting on the Boston Globe. The name “Jimmy Dale” may soon become a household word, at least in households that read.

The Orwell stuff was just the tip of the iceberg. Kindle needs to clean house or it will become the Craigslist of online booksellers.

Wow, just wow.

I had to alert Amazon a couple of years ago that they had a marketplace seller that was selling Russian bootleg copies of Beatles albums - I bought what I thought was going to be an import CD of the Beatles’ UK Rarities, only to find it was two albums on one CD - UK Rarities and Let It Be. This was after I’d been in email contact with a nice lady in the licensing department at EMI Records in the UK, giving her the scoop on Amazon and the Russian bootlegger.

136

Targetpractice Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:38:29pm

re: #133 wahabicorridor

And she’s just stupid enough to try it. She’s already deeply disliked by about half the delegation. That kind of petty crap would alienate a lot of people. I’ve said this before, but I think Steny Hoyer is starting to look pretty good in many peoples’ eyes

The Party wanted the brownie points of putting the First Female Speaker of the House in place. Congrats, they won more favor with…a demographic they already had a healthy lead in, while also putting the most dunderheaded, egocentric, bitchy woman they could find in their ranks into a position where it would take political suicide to remove her from.

137

buster Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:39:29pm

re: #4 Sharmuta

Thank God for the Blue Dogs- we’d be screwed without them.

I’m reserving judgment until I see how many earmarks and much money the Blue Dogs were promised for their compromise. I suspect that they were bribed or duped.

138

SixDegrees Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:39:33pm

re: #130 wahabicorridor

Food Safety Bill just died in the House.

That was a stinker, too

Quick summary?

139

wahabicorridor Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:39:39pm

I should also note vis a vis Pelosi: The big reason that the Food Safety bill died is that she allowed it - or wanted it - to be brought to the floor under the ‘suspension calendar’ - which means they agree to suspend some rules in order to vote on the bill.

Another attempt to jam crap down peoples’ throats without giving members a chance to review.

And Pelosi and Waxman(whose bill it was) lost

The odd thing - when Pelosi was minority whip, she knew how to count. Apparently not anymore.

140

wahabicorridor Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:41:03pm

re: #138 SixDegrees

Quick summary?

Long story short - it was Waxman’s baby. Lots of big gov’t crappola.

141

calcajun Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:43:30pm

re: #132 Dianna

Alcohol and black powder!

Throw in some smokes and you have a government agency.

142

wahabicorridor Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:46:00pm

re: #138 SixDegrees

Quick summary?

Here’s a quick quote from the Food Safety Bill, aka HR 2749

Defines the term “color additive” to include carbon monoxide that may affect the color of fresh meat, poultry products, or seafood.

Next thing you know, they’ll be trying to regulate sunlight.

143

Targetpractice Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:51:23pm

re: #139 wahabicorridor

I should also note vis a vis Pelosi: The big reason that the Food Safety bill died is that she allowed it - or wanted it - to be brought to the floor under the ‘suspension calendar’ - which means they agree to suspend some rules in order to vote on the bill.

Another attempt to jam crap down peoples’ throats without giving members a chance to review.

And Pelosi and Waxman(whose bill it was) lost

The odd thing - when Pelosi was minority whip, she knew how to count. Apparently not anymore.

And that’s another small blessing for the GOP right now. Keeping the Dems focused on Obama’s “emergency, must-pass” bills means dozens of less important shitty bills are getting held up in committee or not getting quick floor votes, giving Republicans time to work up opposition to said bills behind the scenes. This bill came out of committee back in June and just now came up for a floor vote. Something tells me had it been voted on after coming out of committee, it might have passed, if by a narrow margin. Now? Waxman’s got more egg on his face and we’re saved from another shitty bill.

144

Land Shark Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:51:38pm

re: #142 wahabicorridor

Sssshhh! Don’t give them any damn ideas! ;-)

145

Ward Cleaver Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:52:02pm

re: #142 wahabicorridor

Next thing you know, they’ll be trying to regulate sunlight.

Carbon monoxide has been used to make beef appear bright red, even when it’s not particularly fresh. The packaging is pumped full of CO before wrapping.

146

Danny Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:53:11pm

I guess this gives me more time to stock up on vaseline.

147

[deleted] Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:53:45pm

148

Land Shark Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:55:52pm

re: #7 Sharmuta

I deeply reghret I have but one upding to give to this oh so right on the money post.

149

calcajun Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:57:00pm

re: #146 Danny

I guess this gives me more time to stock up on vaseline.

and practice your smile.

150

LGoPs Wed, Jul 29, 2009 12:59:16pm

re: #45 Cato the Elder

Um, I’ve got news for you all.

No one - not Democrat, not Republican, not Luap Nor - reads these thousand-page bills. No one. Not ever.

They vote up or down depending on how much their own little pud gets greased in the down-deep details. The basic outline of the legislation +/- what it does for me/my constituents/my mistress = aye/nay.

In every case.

Does anyone here seriously believe this started with Obama? I defy a normal human being to go back and read any budget bill from the last, oh, 35 years and actually read it.

Can’t. Be. Done.

Then they need to be goddammed simplified.

151

wahabicorridor Wed, Jul 29, 2009 1:00:05pm

re: #145 Ward Cleaver

Carbon monoxide has been used to make beef appear bright red, even when it’s not particularly fresh. The packaging is pumped full of CO before wrapping.

I k now. But it is not an ‘additive’ in the sense that you ingest it when you ingest the product - as you do food coloring.

As for ‘not particularly fresh’ - if you trust your meat dept. - trust them on the ‘sell by dates too.

152

looking closely Wed, Jul 29, 2009 1:03:37pm

re: #121 wahabicorridor

Beg to differ. She can try to withhold DNC fund for their re-elctions and run challengers in their primaries (not that I think it’s a good idea on her part - but she can make them miserable)

She can try these things, but there is only so much political capital she has too, and that seems to be drying up as well.

Her own personal popularity isn’t all that high either. If she keeps writing checks she can’t cash or antagonizing on the fence members of her own party (many of whom are Democrats hanging on by a thread in traditionally Republican districts), she’ll find herself out of the Speaker’s chair.

153

Creeping Eruption Wed, Jul 29, 2009 1:04:13pm

re: #145 Ward Cleaver

Carbon monoxide has been used to make beef appear bright red, even when it’s not particularly fresh. The packaging is pumped full of CO before wrapping.

Don’t they do that to Tuna as well, and for the same reason?

154

looking closely Wed, Jul 29, 2009 1:06:54pm

re: #30 CyanSnowHawk

So one of the alternatives to a single inefficient, bureaucracy ridden, glacially paced, and overbearing Government run health care system is 51 inefficient, bureaucracy ridden, glacially paced, and overbearing Government health care systems?

What we need is a true health care portability act, that allows individuals to purchase plans across State lines.

That increases effective competition, and would actually lower costs.

Of course this is one of the things that John McCain proposed in his version of health care reform. Haven’t heard a peep about this since, probably because the LAST thing any of these socialists want is a true free market in healthcare.

155

Creeping Eruption Wed, Jul 29, 2009 1:08:46pm

re: #154 looking closely

What we need is a true health care portability act, that allows individuals to purchase plans across State lines.

That increases effective competition, and would actually lower costs.

Of course this is one of the things that John McCain proposed in his version of health care reform. Haven’t heard a peep about this since, probably because the LAST thing any of these socialists want is a true free market in healthcare.

So how would you enforce your State’s insurance laws against an out of state insurance company from whom you purchased product?

They fuck you, you have no recourse.

156

wahabicorridor Wed, Jul 29, 2009 1:08:47pm

re: #152 looking closely

She can try these things, but there is only so much political capital she has too, and that seems to be drying up as well.

Indeed. I’m suprised, too, in a way. She was a very competent whip and I never would have predicted how much she would overreach. But boy, has she ever.

157

medaura18586 Wed, Jul 29, 2009 1:09:31pm

re: #7 Sharmuta

I think reading bills before a vote should be mandatory.

That, and passing comprehensive exams regarding their contents. How’s that as an incentive for congressfolk to push for simple, clear, no-bullshit bills?

158

wahabicorridor Wed, Jul 29, 2009 1:10:42pm

ok, gotta go - later lizards

159

samsgran1948 Wed, Jul 29, 2009 1:10:56pm

re: #20 Cannadian Club Akbar

The Dems will be calling the Blue Dogs throughout the break. WE need to call and write them. The Dems will promise them the world.

No. The Dems will be threatening them within an inch of their lives.

160

looking closely Wed, Jul 29, 2009 1:17:38pm

re: #155 Creeping Eruption

So how would you enforce your State’s insurance laws against an out of state insurance company from whom you purchased product?

They fuck you, you have no recourse.

I don’t see that at all. You’re not buying an insurance product from Timbuktu. There are multiple ways to deal with juridiction issues:

If they sell you product in your State they have to follow your State’s rules (though this partially defeats the purpose of having the portability).

Alternatively, if you purchase the product out of State, they have to follow the SELLING State’s rules. Yes, suing someone out of State costs more, but it can certainly be done. Its just one more cost variable for the free market to work out.

Again, so long as you know what the rules are before you buy, I don’t see a problem here.

But more to the point, presumably, the point of eliminating barriers to competition is…eliminating barriers to competition. The States can do this to benefit their residents. If the reform is done on a Federal level, it can establish a set of rules that apply to all States

161

Charpete67 Wed, Jul 29, 2009 1:19:46pm

re: #157 medaura18586

I think there was a clip on Drudge of Obama from 2004 complaining that Bush was ramming bills through without reading them. And I think it goes without saying that Obama himself had pledged to put every bill on line for 48 hours before a vote would be held.

It also cuts both ways…when politicians oppose bills, one could ask if they have read the bill as well.

162

SixDegrees Wed, Jul 29, 2009 1:20:33pm

re: #142 wahabicorridor

Next thing you know, they’ll be trying to regulate sunlight.

Yeah. I’ve done a little reading on this bill since the first post, and all I can say is that it’s a shame Waxman and his ilk got ahold of it, because there were a couple of things in there that I’ve wanted to see passed for a long time, but they got buried under a steaming pile of bureaucracy during the legislative process. Morons.

One amendment that got pulled at the last minute was strict regulation of antibiotics to livestock. Right now, there’s no regulation, and feedlots administer sub-clinical doses of antibiotics to all of their animals to stave off diseases caused by the close quarters and bizarre diet the animals are fed. With tens of millions of animals packed close together, all dosed with amounts of antibiotics that are strong enough to put off major infection until slaughter but not strong enough to actually kill the bugs involved, you’ve created a perfect breeding ground for antibiotic-resistant bugs of all sorts - a bad situation that is just waiting to go badly wrong. They don’t do this anywhere else on the planet, and animals manage to survive just fine.

Other measures - like more extensive labeling - aren’t a bad thing by themselves. If government is going to have a role, the role of providing information transparently is certainly a worthy one. I like to know what’s in my food; unlike a lot of hysterical worrywarts, most of what’s in it doesn’t concern me, but I like knowing about it. Labeling CO as an additive goes overboard, and throws it into the “Oooohh! Scary additives!” category, but simply noting somewhere that CO has been used to enhance color can be worthwhile; for one thing, I pay more attention to how my local butcher stores meat when they used CO-packaged meat, because it’s harder to tell from appearances if it’s been maintained at low enough temperatures.

But intrusive inspections, mandatory $500 fees and other charges, and a host of other bullshit turned it into another 20-pound bill crafted to ensure government overreach and control, without anything in the way of passing information along to the consumer or protecting the populace in any meaningful way from the worst effects of some notably bad practices. A couple of small tweaks to existing regulations were all that were needed, not a mountain of new regulations.

While we’re on the topic, missing altogether was any provision to fund more Federal meat inspectors. Their numbers have dwindled rapidly in recent years, as meat production has soared, to the point where only huge megacorps can get their beef processed; small farmers are excluded from the gigantic inspection facilities, and there aren’t enough inspectors available to staff smaller operations. This is squeezing smaller, family-run operations right out of business, and doing so at a time when demand for hand-raised meat and poultry is at an all-time high. This problem really needs to be fixed. Or Federal regulations forbidding the sale of butchered meat from facilities that aren’t Federally inspected need to be revisited. It’s been a hundred years since The Jungle, and thing have changed.

163

Charpete67 Wed, Jul 29, 2009 1:29:34pm

No one says it better than Charles Krauthammer…

What happened to Obamacare? Rhetoric met reality. As both candidate and president, the master rhetorician could conjure a world in which he bestows upon you health-care nirvana: more coverage, less cost.

But you can’t fake it in legislation. Once you commit your fantasies to words and numbers, the Congressional Budget Office comes along and declares that the emperor has no clothes.

164

iLikeCandy Wed, Jul 29, 2009 2:24:18pm

re: #126 wahabicorridor

Thanks, wc

165

FrogMarch Wed, Jul 29, 2009 2:38:45pm

We are still screwed.

It’s just a temporary delay.

166

acwgusa Wed, Jul 29, 2009 2:48:53pm

re: #165 FrogMarch

We are still screwed.

It’s just a temporary delay.

No, the longer the delay, the better chance we have of scuttling the bill(s) by pressing our Senators and Representatives.

167

FrogMarch Wed, Jul 29, 2009 2:56:58pm

re: #166 acwgusa

No, the longer the delay, the better chance we have of scuttling the bill(s) by pressing our Senators and Representatives.

from the link:

Bipartisan Senate negotiators reported progress, too, on a bill to extend coverage to 95 percent of all Americans without raising federal deficits. “We’re on the edge, we’re almost there,” said Sen. Charles Grassley of Iowa, the senior Republican involved in the secretive Senate talks.

Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., chairman of the Finance Committee, said preliminary estimates from congressional budget experts showed the cost of the emerging Senate plan was below $900 billion and would result in an increase in employer-sponsored insurance — conclusions that may reassure critics who fear a bloated bill that prompts businesses to abandon the coverage they currently provide.

$900 Billion - OH! That’s much better.

No thanks.

168

Charpete67 Wed, Jul 29, 2009 3:01:17pm

Great Reagan quote I just hear on radio:

“if you think health care is expensive, wait until it’s free”

169

wahabicorridor Wed, Jul 29, 2009 3:48:18pm

re: #162 SixDegrees

Unfortunately, when it comes to feedlots, you’re dealing with an economy-of-scale-issue where the economic argument trumps.

The only amelioration I can think of it to keep the animals in the lots for shorter periods of time and to sequester the animals by lots.

And believe me I know that’s a shitty plan.

Have you been aware of the ‘animal id’ push? This came about because of mad-cow, etc. The ranchers hate it - and I understand why - it’s hideously expensive in time, money and labor - but one argument I’ve never heard them make - is that an animal could be infected in the lot and instead of tracing it to the lot, it would be traced back to the rancher/herd.

Besides. I do the grocery shopping for my family. I love it. It’s pure sociology/history in there. Especially when I get to know the produce guys, the butchers, the managers who have to abide by the shelf-stocking quidelines (15 linear feet for balsamic vinegar? and no sherry vinegar?).

Ever buy meatloaf mix? It’s 1/3 beef 1/3 pork 1/3 veal.

Good luck tracking that.

As for your observations re: inspectors. I have this only anecdotally so, FWIW.

It’s a filthy job. The people I’ve talked to say they’d rather work in coal mines.

And you’re right about incentives. What I think might work is what they do in the local papers here. Restaurants get closed for Health Dept violations. Publish this stuff on the web sites and let the market do its job.

Kinda like recalls.

170

Wendya Wed, Jul 29, 2009 5:39:23pm

re: #129 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

As wahabi pointed out, Nancy can threaten to withhold campaign funds and run challengers against them, not to mention refuse to endorse their reelection bids. And then there’s using the plethora, the veritable cornucopia, of House rules and regs to stop them from getting any earmarks added to bills, which hurts them back at home when they can not take credit for any pork going back to their districts.

That will create a great deal of anger and resentment among all the democrats. They’ll start to wonder if they will be sent under the bus if they don’t ignore their constituents and obey her. Obama isn’t polling well in blue dog districts. Both he and the BD’s know that. Progressive democrats will not win in blue dog districts. If Pelosi wants to run challengers against them, they may win the primary but they will probably lose the election. The generic congressional ballot shows both democrats and republicans basically in a dead heat. That’s a big difference from the double digit leads they’ve had for the last couple of years.

171

Maui Girl Wed, Jul 29, 2009 11:11:55pm

Gee, I feel so much better now that Congress might actually take the time to “read” things before they sign them. Whew!

/smiling like a fool

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