White House Meeting Scheduled for Beer O’Clock

It’s time for President Barack Obama, Henry Louis Gates Jr. and Police Sgt. James Crowley to sit down together in the White House and pound some brewskies, and the beer companies are competing to promote their products: Beer brewers beg for White House berth.

Ain’t that America?

“Yuengling is proud to be recognized as America’s Oldest Brewery,” a company spokesman told POLITICO. “Family owned and operated since 1829, we’ve been a part of conflict resolution for over 180 years!”

A rep for Sierra Nevada said: “We believe that we are the perfect fit for the matter at hand, and a great choice to represent and facilitate the resilience and understanding of the American people. Sierra Nevada [can] reinforce the idea that whether black or white, rich or poor, we are all first and foremost Americans. American citizens should support American beer.

Think global, drink local.”

I hope the President has arranged designated drivers for Gates and Crowley. Wouldn’t want anyone ending up with a DUI after this.

Jump to bottom

409 comments
1 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:02:04am

Time for a beer!

2 JohnnyReb  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:02:54am

Well Bud is out, they aren't a American company anymore.

3 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:03:07am

I bet Obama drinks beer from a glass - only.

4 WestTexas  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:03:18am

I love free market capitalism!

5 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:03:19am

I will be drinking in solidarity with the radical pro-beer agenda!

6 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:03:48am

I think a nice black and tan might be in order.

7 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:03:54am
I hope the President has arranged designated drivers for Gates and Crowley. Wouldn’t want anyone ending up with DUI after this.

Not a problem.

Gates will be staying in the Lincoln Bedroom.

Crowley will be walking home.

8 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:04:12am
9 WestTexas  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:05:05am

Speaking of beverages, I tried a drink that Racer-X suggested the other day in this thread. One drink will knock you for a loop.

10 itellu3times  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:05:33am

But, snacks? Peanuts? Hot wings? Nachos? Potato skins? Lobster?

Big screen sports?

11 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:05:34am

re: #6 Ringo the Gringo

Somebody once told me the Irish find that name offensive. I think it had something to do with the color of British uniforms.

12 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:06:07am

I suppose it's difficult to refuse an invitation from the White House, but I sort of wish that Crowley had simply said 'no'.

13 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:06:10am

I'd love to see them overdo the beer and get into a drunken brawl...wrestling on the floor.
/ nyuk, nyuk

14 CommonCents  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:06:17am
we’ve been a part of conflict resolution for over 180 years!

In my experience more fights have broken out over beer than been broken up.

15 JamesTKirk  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:06:28am

re: #6 Ringo the Gringo

I think a nice black and tan might be in order.

I suggested that one in the last thread.

16 VegasRick  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:06:30am

I would rather have seen a cagematch slapdown.

17 JamesTKirk  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:06:51am

re: #12 SanFranciscoZionist

I suppose it's difficult to refuse an invitation from the White House, but I sort of wish that Crowley had simply said 'no'.

He wouldn't have been the first.

18 CommonCents  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:07:05am

re: #3 Noam Sayin'

I bet Obama drinks beer from a glass - only.

With his pinkie out.

19 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:07:11am

I understand Gates wants an apology tonight..
It would delicious if this ends up in a shouting match..Old Barry standing between them trying to make peace...

20 ROP?LOL  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:07:13am

re: #3 Noam Sayin'

I bet Obama drinks beer from a glass - only.

I'm thinking he might use a straw.

21 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:07:16am

This whole thing has gone from suck to blow...
Once in a blue moon would any POTUS pull such a stupid stunt.
Unless BHO really wants to move all of his failing agendas off the front page, in which case he's succeeding brilliantly.

22 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:07:38am

re: #11 Killgore Trout

Somebody once told me the Irish find that name offensive. I think it had something to do with the color of British uniforms.

Looks like you're right:

Black and Tan is not a drink commonly consumed in Ireland. Indeed the drink has image problems in parts of Ireland and elsewhere due to the association with the Royal Irish Constabulary Reserve Force which was sent into Ireland by British Secretary of State for War Winston Churchill during the Lloyd George premiership in the early 1920s and nicknamed the Black and Tans

.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

23 CommonCents  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:07:44am

re: #18 CommonCents

With his pinkie out.

The digit on his hand is what I was referring to before anyone jumps to conclusions.

24 jcm  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:07:44am
25 Dianna  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:07:49am

re: #11 Killgore Trout

Somebody once told me the Irish find that name offensive. I think it had something to do with the color of British uniforms.

The Black and Tans were British irregulars during the Irish Civil War in the late teens and early 1920's.

Look up the band Battering Ram or the song "Come on out, you Black and Tans."

26 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:08:06am

re: #15 JamesTKirk

Naw, I think a Red Stripe for Gates is completely apropos. Matches the one down his back.

27 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:08:18am

re: #13 LGoPs

I'd love to see them overdo the beer and get into a drunken brawl...wrestling on the floor.
/ nyuk, nyuk

The Secret Service would be in a quandry...wondering who to shoot
;>)

28 VioletTiger  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:08:21am

A beer tasting, with several choices might have been nice. Hey, sell the opportunity to be among the tasted brands and help pay down some of the National Debt!

29 WestTexas  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:08:24am

I'm worried that Gates will be adamant in receiving an apology, and in no way does Crowley owe him one.

30 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:08:26am

"Sierra Nevada" . . .the mediators choice.

31 Dianna  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:08:32am

re: #12 SanFranciscoZionist

I suppose it's difficult to refuse an invitation from the White House, but I sort of wish that Crowley had simply said 'no'.

Crowley - according to Obama, anyway - suggested it.

32 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:08:39am

re: #11 Killgore Trout

Somebody once told me the Irish find that name offensive. I think it had something to do with the color of British uniforms.

The Black and Tans were the Royal Irish Constabulary Reserve Force--a paramilitary the British used during the 20s to suppress the rebels, and, well, anyone else they felt like supressing. Bad discipline, bad oversight, lots of scandals.

Never heard anyone object to the drink, though.

33 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:08:41am
34 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:08:46am

Two of the craziest wingnuts in American politics, together at last:

Tonight on the Andrea Shea King Show - former Ambassador, presidential candidate, and conservative political activist Alan Keyes joins me. We're going to talk about what Andrew McCarthy writes today in the National Review Online. The show begins at 9 ET, and you can listen by linking here:

[Link: www.blogtalkradio.com...]

35 Randall Gross  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:09:02am

re: #2 JohnnyReb

Well Bud is out, they aren't a American company anymore.

a search for "Obama's Favorite beer" brings up Bud Lite. Makes sense as he's from Chicago.

36 Gaye Kukkin-Offenyam  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:09:22am

I'm sure Gates drinks Black Label Beer.

37 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:09:47am

re: #20 ROP?LOL

I'm thinking he might use a straw.

Nipple.

38 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:09:51am

re: #22 Ringo the Gringo

I wondered how true that story is because every Irish bar here in the States calls them Black and Tans. I keep meaning to check what pubs in London call them but I get drinking and forget.

39 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:09:54am

re: #31 Dianna

Crowley - according to Obama, anyway - suggested it.

Well, I hope everyone behaves himself.

40 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:09:59am

Mr. Policemanofficer : I'll take an Amstel Madashell.

Gates : What's that ?

Mr. P : An Amstel light I'm going to throw in your face.

41 Kragar  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:09:59am

What beer goes well with arugula?

42 friarstale  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:10:33am

well, white people like microbreweries:
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/24/23-microbreweries/

43 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:10:45am
44 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:10:46am

re: #41 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Eww. None.

Will the drink a domestic-- or a foreign beer like Bud?

45 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:10:47am

re: #41 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What beer goes well with arugula?

Pooftah beer...

46 Dianna  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:11:01am

re: #39 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I hope everyone behaves himself.

Me, too.

47 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:11:12am

re: #29 WestTexas

I'd love to be a fly on that wall. Here's hoping Crowley doesn't blink and just says ' Tell the truth, sir, because I did '.
Gates is an author, so you know he is angling this for one of his books on how African Americans are still repressed by the Man.
He must have a lot of influence, though... he caught a cold in China and they didn't quarantine him?

48 VioletTiger  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:11:17am

re: #41 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What beer goes well with arugula?


Watered down, light beer, which ironically, is what Obama is drinking.

49 restitutor orbis  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:11:31am

Crowley should have ducked out. There is no need for reconciliation. That racist committed a crime, and was arrested for it. This is all just a photo op to improve Barry's image. I have a feeling that the only reconciliation will be a subtle demand for an apology. Gates will make a face saving apology, and Crowley will be taught the error of his ways. then Barry can look like the hero. Gates as well. Instead of that vile racist shitbag being publicly shamed for his acts, he will be vindicated. And Barry gets off insulting an entire profession. And the whole thing gets wrapped up in a non-judgemental, everyone-is-at-fault (but we all know who the real villian is, wink wink) manner.

50 WestTexas  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:11:33am

re: #46 Dianna

Me three, :-)

51 redshirt  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:11:41am

I love Yeungling! Can't get it in Arizona, though...
Curious, will Obama just give Crowley a beer, or will he offer him a choice?
Kinda surprised Obama didn't auction off the beer sponsorship for this epic summit.

52 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:11:52am

re: #38 Killgore Trout

I wondered how true that story is because every Irish bar here in the States calls them Black and Tans. I keep meaning to check what pubs in London call them but I get drinking and forget.

They call it a black and tan in London. In fact, London is where I first had one.

53 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:11:53am
54 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:11:58am

re: #43 buzzsawmonkey

In his case it would be Snarling Black Label, rather than the usual Carling offering.

Please, let's avoid the malt liquor jokes. Id did like those commercials with Fred "the Hammer" Williamson, though.

55 midwestgak  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:12:03am

re: #19 HoosierHoops

I understand Gates wants an apology tonight..
It would delicious if this ends up in a shouting match..Old Barry standing between them trying to make peace...

Hey Hossier. The beer drinking thingy will be so scripted and directed that Roman Polanski would be proud.

56 Kragar  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:12:11am

re: #47 tradewind

I'd love to be a fly on that wall. Here's hoping Crowley doesn't blink and just says ' Tell the truth, sir, because I did '.
Gates is an author, so you know he is angling this for one of his books on how African Americans are still repressed by the Man.
He must have a lot of influence, though... he caught a cold in China and they didn't quarantine him?

Would you want to keep him around if you had the choice to get rid of him?

57 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:12:29am

re: #47 tradewind

I'd love to be a fly on that wall. Here's hoping Crowley doesn't blink and just says ' Tell the truth, sir, because I did '.
Gates is an author, so you know he is angling this for one of his books on how African Americans are still repressed by the Man.
He must have a lot of influence, though... he caught a cold in China and they didn't quarantine him?

He's apparently already working on a book or a documentary or something about racial profiling--leading to jeers from those who noticed it was bad some time ago.

58 Erik The Red  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:12:37am

Any idea what time this three ring circus starts?

59 Randall Gross  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:12:46am

re: #49 restitutor orbis

Try to be factual. What crime do you think Gates committed?

60 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:12:59am

re: #47 tradewind

Gates is an author, so you know he is angling this for one of his books on how African Americans are still repressed by the Man.

A black co-worker (my boss, actually) calls me "Hughtheman"

Is he being a racist to me?

61 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:13:19am

re: #52 Ringo the Gringo

They call it a black and tan in London. In fact, London is where I first had one.

Must have originated in Ireland, though, because the phrase doesn't mean much to the English.

62 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:13:31am
63 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:13:32am

Great Mexican beer; Negra Modelo. Goes great with carne asada.

64 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:13:41am
65 Kragar  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:13:43am

re: #55 midwestgak

Hey Hossier. The beer drinking thingy will be so scripted and directed that Roman Polanski would be proud.

Pure photo op, and I dont think the average American believes its anything more than that. I'm just waiting for someone to get loaded and make a pass at somebody else's wife and for Gibbs to do a keg stand.

66 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:13:44am

re: #56 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Good point...

67 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:14:02am

re: #59 Thanos

Try to be factual. What crime do you think Gates committed?

Acting stupid and disorderly around a cop.

68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:14:07am

re: #60 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

And yes, that is my first name. Little archaic, ain't it?

69 WestTexas  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:14:20am

re: #47 tradewind

Yeah, but the tension that this is creating in some situations is just ridiculous. I was at work the other day and some of my more liberal co-workers felt that Crowley is the one at fault completely. I find it offensive that people would assume the worst because he is white. That is true racial profiling.

70 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:15:05am

re: #59 Thanos

Resisting arrest. Disturbing the peace. Disorderly conduct . Interfering with a law officer in the performance of his duties.
Not saying these are felonies, but then again, he wasn't charged with one.

71 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:15:36am

re: #60 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A black co-worker (my boss, actually) calls me "Hughtheman"

Is he being a racist to me?

Hard to tell. My husband's niece, when she first met him at the age of three, called him 'the man'. As in 'will the man come to the park too?' or 'Is the man home?' Since the household was her, her mom, her grandma, her great-aunt and 'the man', it was a pretty descriptive title. She would not call him "Uncle Bob", no matter how many times it was suggested.

72 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:15:44am

re: #60 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A black co-worker (my boss, actually) calls me "Hughtheman"

Is he being a racist to me?

Kenneth Mars; "I am Hugh."

Ryan O'Neal; "You are me?"

-"What's Up Doc."

73 redstateredneck  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:16:00am

re: #58 Erik The Red

Any idea what time this three ring circus starts?

Six, I believe I heard.

74 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:16:08am

re: #61 SanFranciscoZionist

Must have originated in Ireland, though, because the phrase doesn't mean much to the English.

I think it was just a way of describing the colors of the drink, and nothing more.

75 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:16:12am

re: #69 WestTexas

My sympathies on your work environment.
Next time they start that, just say ' let's go to the video audio tape'

76 Ojoe  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:16:17am
77 danny  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:16:43am

Just saw it out of the corner of my eye when I was getting ready for work, but I wondered why one of the morning shows was kicking off with a story about beers this morning. I dunno...the whole thing just seems weird to me.

78 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:16:57am

re: #64 MikeySDCA

I believe in Ireland they call it a half and half.

That's true.

79 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:17:06am

re: #76 Ojoe

Old Rasputin Russian Imperial Stout. brewed in California.

"Never Say Die"

I don't care for that stuff, for some reason.

80 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:17:16am

re: #55 midwestgak

Hey Hossier. The beer drinking thingy will be so scripted and directed that Roman Polanski would be proud.

Good Afternoon Gal! Do you think Obama smokes while he is drinking?
Good evening Gentleman..Here is your script, Beer and cigarettes..

81 Ojoe  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:17:44am

At the White House they could serve a lite beer brewed by someone named "Don"

i.e.

"Don's Early Light"

(What so proudly we ale'd)

82 medaura18586  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:17:50am

If I were Crowley, I wouldn't have accepted the invitation before Obama had fully apologized in public for his remarks.

83 WestTexas  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:18:02am

re: #75 tradewind

Well it's partly my fault. I took this job knowing full well that it is a union closed shop, but it provides the opportunity for me to finish my degree. Sometimes I feel as if I have sold my soul.

84 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:18:18am

This is just too dopey to waste much brain power on.

85 Randall Gross  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:18:18am

re: #70 tradewind

Was he charged or released?

If he wasn't charged and found guilty then under US and Massachusetts law he's committed no crime.

86 Ojoe  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:18:20am

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

Don't drive after one bottle.

87 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:18:30am
88 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:18:37am

Betcha Gates will see Obamas Corona.

89 Ziggy Standard  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:18:39am

I found myself very much in agreement with Hitchens take on this:

A Man's Home Is His Constitutional Castle

Henry Louis Gates Jr. should have taken his stand on the Bill of Rights, not on his epidermis or that of the arresting officer.

[Link: www.slate.com...]

I can easily see how a black neighbor could have called the police when seeing professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. trying to push open the front door of his own house. And I can equally easily visualize a thuggish or oversensitive black cop answering the call. And I can also see how long it might take the misunderstanding to dawn on both parties. But Gates has a limp that partly accounts for his childhood nickname and is slight and modest in demeanor. Moreover, whatever he said to the cop was in the privacy of his own home. It is monstrous in the extreme that he should in that home be handcuffed, and then taken downtown, after it had been plainly established that he was indeed the householder. The president should certainly have kept his mouth closed about the whole business—he is a senior law officer with a duty of impartiality, not the micro-manager of our domestic disputes—but once he had said that the police conduct was "stupid," he ought to have stuck to it, quite regardless of the rainbow of shades that was so pathetically and opportunistically deployed by the Cambridge Police Department. It is the U.S. Constitution, and not some competitive agglomeration of communities or constituencies, that makes a citizen the sovereign of his own home and privacy. There is absolutely no legal requirement to be polite in the defense of this right. And such rights cannot be negotiated away over beer.

Race or color are second-order considerations in this, if they are considerations at all. I was once mugged by a white man on the Lower East Side of New York, and then, having given my evidence, was laboriously shown a whole photo album of black "perps" at the local station house. The absurdity of the exercise lay not just in the inability of a half-trained and uncultured force to believe what I was telling them, but in the certainty that their stupidity was helping the guilty party to make a getaway. Professor Gates should have taken his stand on the Bill of Rights and not on his epidermis or that of the arresting officer, and, if he didn't have the presence of mind to do so, that needn't inhibit the rest of us.

90 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:18:49am

re: #76 Ojoe

Old Rasputin Russian Imperial Stout. brewed in California.

"Never Say Die"

"Goes down smooth-- but doesn't stay down."

91 Desert Dog  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:18:55am

My money is on Offcr. Crowley to win the "Quarters" competition.

92 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:19:24am

re: #80 HoosierHoops

Good Afternoon Gal! Do you think Obama smokes while he is drinking?
Good evening Gentleman..Here is your script, Beer and cigarettes..

Heh. That came right out of the firefight on the last thread.

93 Kragar  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:19:25am

A buddy of mine once swore he would never drink Mexican beers, then we caught him drinking Dos Equis. His defense? "Nah, this is Greek beer. See? Its pronounced Dosicus."

94 Ojoe  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:19:25am

re: #90 calcajun

ROFLMAO

95 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:19:26am

Personally, I'd like to see them finish off a case of Mickey's Big Mouth.

96 Randall Gross  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:19:27am

re: #85 Thanos

Was he charged or released?

If he wasn't charged and found guilty then under US and Massachusetts law he's committed no crime.

That was meant for Restitutor, misclicked

97 Wendya  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:19:33am

re: #59 Thanos

Try to be factual. What crime do you think Gates committed?

The one he was initially charged with, Disorderly conduct.

98 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:19:46am

re: #76 Ojoe

Old Rasputin Russian Imperial Stout. brewed in California.

"Never Say Die"

I once ordered a John Courage Imperial Russian Stout because I thought the name was cool. The damn thing came in a 6 oz bottle & cost $25! I saved the bottle as a reminder to always check the price before you order!

99 J Doc  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:20:00am

This whole "beer at the White House" thing is just another stupid stunt.

100 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:20:03am
101 Ojoe  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:20:16am

re: #98 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Rasputin is cheaper

102 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:20:17am

re: #23 CommonCents

The digit on his hand is what I was referring to before anyone jumps to conclusions.

The digit I'd like to see Crowley use is the same one Obama used on Hillary during the debates. In a subtle, nuanced way of course.
/

103 jcm  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:20:22am

re: #59 Thanos

Try to be factual. What crime do you think Gates committed?

Most jurisdiction if not all require you to provide ID on demand to a police officer with probably cause, two unidentified persons in a house where a possible burglary was in progress is probable cause. Gates failed to produce the ID on demand, instead launched into his "victim: tirade. Police were investigating report of a burglary, Gates behavior obstructed the investigation. His continued behavior was "disturbing the peace" a broad catch, all but the failure to comply with officers can fall into that.

It could have been a 2 minute encounter.

Yes, officer I live here, here is my ID, thanks for checking out the report that my home was being broken into.

104 Randall Gross  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:20:53am

re: #97 Wendya

Was he found guilty? If not then he's committed no crime.

105 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:20:54am

I'm betting that all that are invited are being flown down to D.C.
on chartered Jets on OUR F'ing DIME...
Especially that Prick Gates!!!

106 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:21:04am

re: #93 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A buddy of mine once swore he would never drink Mexican beers, then we caught him drinking Dos Equis. His defense? "Nah, this is Greek beer. See? Its pronounced Dosicus."

Am I still dead. It's been three days now?

107 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:21:21am

re: #83 WestTexas

Well it's partly my fault. I took this job knowing full well that it is a union closed shop, but it provides the opportunity for me to finish my degree. Sometimes I feel as if I have sold my soul.

It's a buyer's market.

108 Randall Gross  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:21:46am

re: #103 jcm

Most jurisdiction if not all require you to provide ID on demand to a police officer with probably cause, two unidentified persons in a house where a possible burglary was in progress is probable cause. Gates failed to produce the ID on demand, instead launched into his "victim: tirade. Police were investigating report of a burglary, Gates behavior obstructed the investigation. His continued behavior was "disturbing the peace" a broad catch, all but the failure to comply with officers can fall into that.

It could have been a 2 minute encounter.

Yes, officer I live here, here is my ID, thanks for checking out the report that my home was being broken into.

I agree but saying he's committed a crime when he was released is fallacious, try to stay factual folks.

109 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:21:46am
110 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:22:01am

re: #100 buzzsawmonkey

Isn't it just a wee mite condescending and stereotypical to "invite them over for a beer?"

Isn't it buying into "white cop = blue collar slob = beer drinker"? For all they know, Sergeant Crowley could be an expert in single malts.

Wouldn't it have been less stereotyping and condescending to simply invite the two over "for a chat?" Or, "for a drink," unspecified?

I think so.

At least he didn't invite him over for donuts...
/

111 Randall Gross  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:22:06am

re: #109 buzzsawmonkey

But bad mistakes, he's made a few.

Had his share of kicks and bad breaks, but he's come through.

:)

112 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:22:06am

re: #100 buzzsawmonkey

Isn't it just a wee mite condescending and stereotypical to "invite them over for a beer?"

Isn't it buying into "white cop = blue collar slob = beer drinker"? For all they know, Sergeant Crowley could be an expert in single malts.

Wouldn't it have been less stereotyping and condescending to simply invite the two over "for a chat?" Or, "for a drink," unspecified?

I think so.

Cop's can't afford single malt. Beer? It's what white cops drink, right? Maybe he wants some donuts, too?

113 Kragar  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:22:17am

re: #106 calcajun

Am I still dead. It's been three days now?

HE IS RISEN!

114 jcm  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:22:32am

re: #76 Ojoe

Old Rasputin Russian Imperial Stout. brewed in California.

"Never Say Die"

Good stuff..

Another good one, Stone Imperial Russia Stout.

115 Desert Dog  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:22:34am

re: #89 Jimmah

I found myself very much in agreement with Hitchens take on this:

A Man's Home Is His Constitutional Castle

Henry Louis Gates Jr. should have taken his stand on the Bill of Rights, not on his epidermis or that of the arresting officer.

[Link: www.slate.com...]

So, when the cops come a-calling, it's ok to yell and scream at them, call them names, invoke their mothers and be a general asshole because it's a constitutional right? Gates could have diffused this situation in a few seconds, but he chose to a ultra-jerk. The cops will arrest you if you are verbally abusive to them.

116 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:22:40am

Crowley should hammer that beer down while the other 2 are still waiting for that yicky foam to settle.

AAAHHH.

117 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:23:13am

re: #113 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

HE IS RISEN!

and for my next trick, I plan to do a little temple renovation...//

118 WestTexas  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:23:24am

re: #107 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Lol, yeah it really is a good job though. I work in the office of a railroad doing some rail tracking and what not. I love that part because it makes me feel like I am contributing to the betterment of society. It's the office politics that get to me. It's all Obama all the time. Very tiresome.

119 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:23:43am

re: #112 calcajun

Cop's can't afford single malt. Beer? It's what white cops drink, right? Maybe he wants some donuts, too?

Given Obama's past gifts, I wouldn't be surprised if officer Crowley came home with the Police Academy DVD box set.

120 Wendya  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:23:44am

re: #89 Jimmah

I found myself very much in agreement with Hitchens take on this:

A Man's Home Is His Constitutional Castle

Henry Louis Gates Jr. should have taken his stand on the Bill of Rights, not on his epidermis or that of the arresting officer.

[Link: www.slate.com...]

Gates wasn't in his home when he had his crowd drawing hissy fit.

121 zombie  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:23:53am
Sierra Nevada [can] reinforce the idea that whether black or white, rich or poor, we are all first and foremost Americans.

"Sierra Nevada [can] reinforce the idea that whether black or white, rich or poor, we can all get completely soused, get into sloppy fistfights in the parking lot, and grow old with bad breath and a beer belly."

There. Needed some fixing.

122 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:23:58am

Crowley looks like a guy who enjoys a beer. Gates strike me more as a wine sipper.

Obama, I'm sure, would rather smoke a joint.

123 Kragar  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:23:58am

re: #100 buzzsawmonkey

Isn't it just a wee mite condescending and stereotypical to "invite them over for a beer?"

Isn't it buying into "white cop = blue collar slob = beer drinker"? For all they know, Sergeant Crowley could be an expert in single malts.

Wouldn't it have been less stereotyping and condescending to simply invite the two over "for a chat?" Or, "for a drink," unspecified?

I think so.

Personally, I only drink with people I'm friendly with, so they're wouldn't be a whole lot of drinking going on at the WH tonight.

124 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:24:04am

re: #100 buzzsawmonkey

Isn't it just a wee mite condescending and stereotypical to "invite them over for a beer?"

Isn't it buying into "white cop = blue collar slob = beer drinker"? For all they know, Sergeant Crowley could be an expert in single malts.

Wouldn't it have been less stereotyping and condescending to simply invite the two over "for a chat?" Or, "for a drink," unspecified?

I think so.

Huh. Maybe someone should tell Crowley he was engaging in stereotyping and insulting himself? He was the one who came up with the idea and suggested the beers.

125 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:24:08am

Maybe re: #91 Desert Dog

My money is on Offcr. Crowley to win the "Quarters" competition.

Drink it or wear it!

/i remember those days

126 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:24:14am

I used to be a member of Microbrewed Beer of the Month Club. I received twelve different beers every month delivered to my doorstep.

I need to rejoin that club.

127 DaddyG  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:24:23am

I don't cre what beer they drink, but I wonder if they will be discussing the Obama administration stance on voter civil rights?

"Associate Attorney General Thomas J. Perrelli, the No. 3 official in the Obama Justice Department, was consulted and ultimately approved a decision in May to reverse course and drop a civil complaint accusing three members of the New Black Panther Party of intimidating voters in Philadelphia during November's election..."

"The department's career lawyers in the Voting Section of the Civil Rights Division who pursued the complaint for five months had recommended that Justice seek sanctions against the party and three of its members after the government had already won a default judgment in federal court against the men."

"While the Obama administration has vowed a new era of openness, department officials have refused to answer questions from Republican members of Congress on why the case was dismissed, claiming the information was "privileged, according to congressional correspondence with the department."

"Mr. Perrelli, a prominent private practice attorney, served previously as a counsel to Attorney General Janet Reno in the Clinton administration and was an Obama supporter who raised more than $500,000 for the Democrat candidate in the 2008 elections."

128 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:24:28am

re: #114 jcm

Good stuff..

Another good one, Stone Imperial Russia Stout.

I'm partial to the Red Hook products-- particularly the IPA.

Down here, the Stone Brewery turns out some nice stuff-- Like Arrogant Bastard Ale.

129 Desert Dog  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:24:28am

re: #114 jcm

Good stuff..

Another good one, Stone Imperial Russia Stout.

strong stuff there, but mighty tasty

130 Kragar  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:24:32am

re: #116 SasquatchOnSteroids

Crowley should hammer that beer down while the other 2 are still waiting for that yicky foam to settle.

AAAHHH.

Then say thanks and leave

131 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:24:44am

re: #121 zombie

Just not a beer drinker, are ya, Zombie... ;)

132 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:25:02am
133 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:25:14am

re: #122 Ringo the Gringo

Crowley looks like a guy who enjoys a beer. Gates strike me more as a wine sipper.

Obama, I'm sure, would rather smoke a joint.

Maybe a little blow once in a while, when he can afford it.

134 Wendya  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:25:23am

re: #104 Thanos

Was he found guilty? If not then he's committed no crime.

You mean by that, he has not been convicted of a crime.

135 Dianna  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:25:42am

re: #121 zombie

"Sierra Nevada [can] reinforce the idea that whether black or white, rich or poor, we can all get completely soused, get into sloppy fistfights in the parking lot, and grow old with bad breath and a beer belly."

There. Needed some fixing.

Not a fan of Sierra Nevada?

136 zombie  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:26:06am

re: #100 buzzsawmonkey

Isn't it just a wee mite condescending and stereotypical to "invite them over for a beer?"

Isn't it buying into "white cop = blue collar slob = beer drinker"? For all they know, Sergeant Crowley could be an expert in single malts.

Wouldn't it have been less stereotyping and condescending to simply invite the two over "for a chat?" Or, "for a drink," unspecified?

I think so.

Excellent point.

What would the reaction have been if Obama had invited Gates over for a shared bottle of Thunderbird fortified wine?

137 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:26:09am

re: #133 Noam Sayin'

Maybe a little blow once in a while, when he can afford it.

Or chase the dragon.

/from that iowahawk iowa caucuses article

138 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:26:12am

re: #123 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Personally, I only drink with people I'm friendly with, so they're wouldn't be a whole lot of drinking going on at the WH tonight.

Police Dispatch: "We're getting calls of a fight at a drinking party at 1600 Pennsylvania..."

139 WestTexas  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:26:30am

re: #121 zombie

Haha, that's funny, even though I do enjoy Sierra Nevada.

140 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:26:33am

re: #136 zombie

Excellent point.

What would the reaction have been if Obama had invited Gates over for a shared bottle of Thunderbird fortified wine?

Or a bottle of Night Train?

141 Lee Coller  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:26:45am

According to foxnews.com, they'll be drinking Bud Light. Sorry, that doesn't qualify as beer in my dictionary.

142 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:26:53am

re: #138 calcajun

Police Dispatch: "We're getting calls of a fight at a drinking party at 1600 Pennsylvania..."

"Send the paddy wagon!"

143 Desert Dog  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:27:32am

re: #128 calcajun

I'm partial to the Red Hook products-- particularly the IPA.

Down here, the Stone Brewery turns out some nice stuff-- Like Arrogant Bastard Ale.

That is my favorite lately, "I am not Worthy"...but I still drink it anyway

144 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:27:40am

re: #141 Lee Coller

Bud Light?


"I love you, man..."

BTW--it's not REAL beer.

145 zombie  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:27:44am

re: #131 Noam Sayin'

Just not a beer drinker, are ya, Zombie... ;)

re: #135 Dianna

Not a fan of Sierra Nevada?

Beer is good for snail traps in the garden. Otherwise -- blechh.

146 BlueCanuck  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:28:04am

re: #141 Lee Coller

According to foxnews.com, they'll be drinking Bud Light. Sorry, that doesn't qualify as beer in my dictionary.

Can you call it a piss poor substitute for water?

/light beer == sex in a canoe.

147 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:28:10am

re: #81 Ojoe

Whose Red Stripes and broad Starr Hill...through the Perla Night, o'er the Ramstein we watched...were so Vallent Leffe Steamworking...

148 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:28:11am

re: #138 calcajun

Police Dispatch: "We're getting calls of a fight at a drinking party at 1600 Pennsylvania..."

I'd love to see Crowley arrest Obama and Gates for disorderly conduct...
/

149 Dianna  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:28:15am

re: #145 zombie

Beer is good for snail traps in the garden. Otherwise -- blechh.

That's all right.

150 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:28:18am

re: #136 zombie

Excellent point.

What would the reaction have been if Obama had invited Gates over for a shared bottle of Thunderbird fortified wine?

Heh. To make the atmosphere more collegate, he could've brought some Boone's Farm.

/Never seen that stuff sell so well until I worked at a store near campus.

151 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:28:25am

re: #145 zombie

Beer is good for snail traps in the garden. Otherwise -- blechh.

Note to self: free beer available in Zombie's garden

152 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:28:28am

re: #100 buzzsawmonkey

Isn't it just a wee mite condescending and stereotypical to "invite them over for a beer?"

Isn't it buying into "white cop = blue collar slob = beer drinker"? For all they know, Sergeant Crowley could be an expert in single malts.

Wouldn't it have been less stereotyping and condescending to simply invite the two over "for a chat?" Or, "for a drink," unspecified?

I think so.

Thought about that, myself. But having a beer together seems to be the most genuine american sounding thing to do. Not all people are wine drinkers, and "cocktails" seem to be a bit snobby.

153 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:29:09am

re: #141 Lee Coller

Only TOTUS. Gates wants a Red Stripe, and Crowley asked for Blue Moon.

154 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:29:20am
155 Desert Dog  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:29:28am

re: #149 Dianna

That's all right.

If you sautee the snails in a nice sauce or fry them up, the beer can wash them down

156 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:29:30am

re: #89 Jimmah

Jimmah-- totally agree with you on that. You might also like Balko's piece in Reason (h/t razorbacker)

[Link: www.reason.com...]

The conversation we ought to be having in response to the July 16 incident and its heated aftermath isn't about race, it's about police arrest powers, and the right to criticize armed agents of the government.

By any account of what happened—Gates', Crowleys', or some version in between—Gates should never have been arrested. "Contempt of cop," as it's sometimes called, isn't a crime. Or at least it shouldn't be. It may be impolite, but mouthing off to police is protected speech, all the more so if your anger and insults are related to a perceived violation of your rights. The "disorderly conduct" charge for which Gates was arrested was intended to prevent riots, not to prevent cops from enduring insults.

157 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:29:38am

My guess is "Cutthroat Lager" wasn't even on the list...
For obvious reasons...;-)
...Good stuff IMHO!

158 WestTexas  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:29:45am

re: #150 Honorary Yooper

I've always maintained that Boone's Farm is fermented Kool-Aid. Could drink a bottle and not feel a thing.

159 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:29:50am

re: #136 zombie

Probably wouldn't have caused a Ripple in the MSM...

160 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:29:51am

re: #115 Desert Dog

So, when the cops come a-calling, it's ok to yell and scream at them, call them names, invoke their mothers and be a general asshole because it's a constitutional right? Gates could have diffused this situation in a few seconds, but he chose to a ultra-jerk. The cops will arrest you if you are verbally abusive to them.

Gates had the ability to defuse the situation, and either chose not to, or didn't realize he was screwing things up due to jet lag and general cold-related symptoms.

Crowley was within rights to take him into custody at that point, I think, based on what I have read about his behavior. I do not know all the case law relating to the Fourth Amendment, but I don't think it rules out the situation that developed. Crowley could probably have avoided the arrest, but it sounds like Gates was not, in fact, establishing that he was the householder.

Either way, this is not a national teaching moment, it's just a really unfortunate series of events.

161 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:29:52am

re: #145 zombie

Beer is good for snail traps in the garden. Otherwise -- blechh.

That reminds me. I need to pick up some snails for the garden.

162 Desert Dog  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:29:57am

re: #151 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Note to self: free beer available in Zombie's garden

With escargot appetizers

163 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:30:09am

I say they drink Pabst Blue Ribbon and eat cheese puffs and get that orange stuff all over their lips and fingers and have a good laugh.

Then we can all forget about this whole affair and focus on important issues.

164 doppelganglander  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:30:17am
“Family owned and operated since 1829, we’ve been a part of conflict resolution for over 180 years!”


Seems to me drinking causes more conflict instigation than resolution. They'd better stop at one.

165 JustABill  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:30:26am

Might be Sam Adams. Given that they are both from New England. Nice American, local Brewery.

Defiantly won't be Colt 45./

166 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:30:28am

later, all. Have a good day.

167 KenJen  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:30:29am

re: #152 Noam Sayin'

Thought about that, myself. But having a beer together seems to be the most genuine american sounding thing to do. Not all people are wine drinkers, and "cocktails" seem to be a bit snobby.

Good old Kentucky borbon would have been a good idea. Knob Creek?

168 DaddyG  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:30:34am
169 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:30:45am

re: #159 tradewind

Probably wouldn't have caused a Ripple in the MSM...

You'd need a "Colt .45" to make a stir.

170 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:30:45am

re: #138 calcajun

Police Dispatch: "We're getting calls of a fight at a drinking party at 1600 Pennsylvania..."

I think the Secret Service can deal with it.

171 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:30:47am
172 J Doc  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:30:55am

I love Canadian beer. Developed a taste in my teens. You used to be able to get a bottle for 35 cents US (with the exchange rate) in Windsor. It costs more now. Is that because of universal Canadian health care?

173 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:31:11am

re: #100 buzzsawmonkey

Nah. Beer is in. Great restaurants are starting to have beer lists, and suggesting what brew goes with what cuisine.
TOTUS is on top of it.

174 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:31:16am

re: #164 doppelganglander

Seems to me drinking causes more conflict instigation than resolution. They'd better stop at one.

"To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems."
/Homer Simpson

175 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:31:20am

re: #153 tradewind

Only TOTUS. Gates wants a Red Stripe, and Crowley asked for Blue Moon.

I like Red Stripe, and Blue Moon. It's hard to find fresh Red Stripe though. If you buy it from a place that doesn't move much of it, you'll get skunked Red Stripe. I buy Blue Moon every once in awhile, and Red Stripe very occasionally.

176 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:31:25am

re: #167 KenJen

Good old Kentucky borbon would have been a good idea. Knob Creek?

Nayh. Stick to Maker's Mark.

177 Kragar  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:31:29am

re: #152 Noam Sayin'

Thought about that, myself. But having a beer together seems to be the most genuine american sounding thing to do.

I'm sure thats what the President's handlers told him too.

"I've got a speech in 10 minutes. What do the hoi polloi drink nowadays?"

178 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:31:31am

re: #142 Ward Cleaver

"Send the paddy wagon!"

Well, since all three of them are Irish, that could unite them in a discrimination suit right there.

179 Rexatosis  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:31:36am

If they are cracking beers in the White House they should be Red White and Blues (RWB):)

180 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:32:09am

re: #170 SanFranciscoZionist

I think the Secret Service can deal with it.

They'd be laying bets if it was Crowley v Gates, the rematch.

181 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:32:14am

re: #124 iceweasel

Huh. Maybe someone should tell Crowley he was engaging in stereotyping and insulting himself? He was the one who came up with the idea and suggested the beers.


I'd be..Where the hell is the White House Basketball Court?
Play ball with Obama then drink all the beer and get verbally abusive with the Secret Service.. All the media would be there when they throw me out the front door.
I'd stand before the media and declare..Now that's the way you do public disturbance! And then pass out.
/

182 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:32:14am

re: #175 Ward Cleaver

I like Red Stripe, and Blue Moon. It's hard to find fresh Red Stripe though. If you buy it from a place that doesn't move much of it, you'll get skunked Red Stripe. I buy Blue Moon every once in awhile, and Red Stripe very occasionally.

Like - once in a Blue Moon?
/you were all thinking it.

183 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:32:16am
184 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:32:28am
185 BlueCanuck  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:32:55am

re: #172 J Doc

Inflation and taxes. I remember when it was 20 bucks a 24. I also remember going to Sault Michigan and dropping two bucks Canadian for a rum and coke and getting change.

/old I am getting.

186 Desert Dog  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:33:07am

re: #160 SanFranciscoZionist

Gates had the ability to defuse the situation, and either chose not to, or didn't realize he was screwing things up due to jet lag and general cold-related symptoms.

Crowley was within rights to take him into custody at that point, I think, based on what I have read about his behavior. I do not know all the case law relating to the Fourth Amendment, but I don't think it rules out the situation that developed. Crowley could probably have avoided the arrest, but it sounds like Gates was not, in fact, establishing that he was the householder.

Either way, this is not a national teaching moment, it's just a really unfortunate series of events.

Charges are made but rarely brought to trial for that offense, but cops will take you in if you act like an asshole. And, it's within their powers to do so. Unless the cop was being unreasonable. Gates could have explained that was his house, shown his id, thanked the cops for coming over and had a good nights sleep. Instead, from the sounds of what I have read, he went ballistic the second the cops arrived and stayed that way all the way to the police station. What an asshole.

187 zombie  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:33:09am

re: #154 buzzsawmonkey

You mean slugs, don't you?

Snails, slugs -- works equally well on both. They go straight for it, get instantly slug-drunk, then drown in the beer. It's far and away the best snail/slug control technique. They love the stuff, yet can't tolerate drinking it.

(Wait -- am I talking about snails or Czechs?)

188 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:33:14am

re: #171 buzzsawmonkey

That's why people usually invite someone over "for a drink," and when the guest arrives they ask, "What's your pleasure?"

I somehow think the White House kitchen has the resources to accommodate pretty much anything.

Yeah, but you have to think about it in the context of who's listening. Having a beer together implies having a drink together, but "beer" is a regular-guy thing. Obama's just like one of us, doncha know.

189 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:33:17am
190 JustABill  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:33:26am

re: #169 calcajun

You'd need a "Colt .45" to make a stir.

Your just a bit too slow... (see #165)

191 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:33:41am

re: #184 buzzsawmonkey

I'm sure that Obama's favorite beer is Hoppo Marx.

Which, if it isn't a beer name yet, should be.

I suppose there would be a Heffy Youngman, too?

192 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:33:53am

re: #184 buzzsawmonkey

I'm sure that Obama's favorite beer is Hoppo Marx.

Which, if it isn't a beer name yet, should be.

If I ever brew an IPA, I'm using that name!

193 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:33:54am

They should have pizza to go with it.

194 DaddyG  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:33:58am

re: #184 buzzsawmonkey

I'm sure that Obama's favorite beer is Hoppo Marx.

Which, if it isn't a beer name yet, should be.

Don't be a Groucho, Get Zeppo'd on Hoppo!

195 WestTexas  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:34:07am

Got to run some errands, later lizards. :-)

196 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:34:09am

re: #181 HoosierHoops

That's a ding!! LOL
Or throw up in the oval office then claim food poisoning from the
Clam dip!!LOL

197 ErnieG  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:34:13am
"I hope the President has arranged designated drivers for Gates and Crowley. Wouldn’t want anyone ending up with a DUI after this."

"Sir, could I see your license and registration, and would you please step out of the car?"

"YOU CAN'T DO THIS TO ME! DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM?"

198 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:34:13am

re: #177 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm sure thats what the President's handlers told him too.

"I've got a speech in 10 minutes. What do the hoi polloi drink nowadays?"

Oh, you know they focus-grouped it, at least among the staff.

199 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:34:35am

re: #190 JustABill

Ah, mine was a pun, whereas yours was not clearly a pun, therefore I win. Neener neener./

200 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:34:51am

re: #169 calcajun

I doubt they'll be serving Brick House at the WH.

201 hous bin pharteen  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:34:55am

Are they smoking cigs together too?

Winston vs Marlboro?

202 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:34:55am

re: #189 buzzsawmonkey

Get a "white" beer name in there, and you've got an American flag thing going on.

Philadelphia Brewing Company's Walt Whit comes close.

203 BlueCanuck  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:35:05am

re: #189 buzzsawmonkey

Get a "white" beer name in there, and you've got an American flag thing going on.

How about Rickard White?

/okay not American, Canadian. Real nice with a slice of orange. Wheat beer.

204 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:35:16am

re: #193 Ward Cleaver

They should have pizza to go with it.

Pork rinds? What cigarettes will be served? Kool 100's or Camels?

205 opnion  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:35:33am

I heard on the radio this morning that Crowley is bringing his family.
Anybody know anything about that?

206 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:35:44am

re: #202 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Philadelphia Brewing Company's Walt Whit comes close.

Sam Adams White Ale.

207 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:35:52am

They should go with Surly Beer.

shameless plug for a local brewery. If you like hops, try the Furious.

208 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:35:53am

re: #115 Desert Dog

So, when the cops come a-calling, it's ok to yell and scream at them, call them names, invoke their mothers and be a general asshole because it's a constitutional right? Gates could have diffused this situation in a few seconds, but he chose to a ultra-jerk. The cops will arrest you if you are verbally abusive to them.

Ah, I get it. The Constitution only applies if you are on your best behavior and ask the police to respect your rights "pretty please with a cherry on top." As annoying as this may be to you, acting like a bloody prick is not against the law. Pissing off a Police officer by not "respecting his authoritah" is not against the law.

As protected under the Constitution, the police may only enter your home if they have a search warrant or have personally witnessed a felony. When Gates told Crowley to get out of his house, Crowley legally had no right to be inside the residence. This is not up for debate. Even Fox "News" legal analysts have stated as much on air. Here's the video if you're interested.
Source

209 calcajun  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:35:58am

re: #205 opnion

I heard on the radio this morning that Crowley is bringing his family.
Anybody know anything about that?

Witnesses?

210 Rexatosis  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:36:11am

Maybe the White House has a case of "Billy Beer" left over from the Carter Days to break out for the Beer Summit.

211 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:36:43am

re: #175 Ward Cleaver

It doesn't often make it out of Jamaica in the same shape.

212 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:36:44am

re: #188 Noam Sayin'

Obama's just like one of us, doncha know.


Take that back...Or I'll
...I'll ...I'll...Open another beer !! I will!!

213 Desert Dog  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:36:44am

re: #201 hous bin pharteen

Are they smoking cigs together too?

Winston vs Marlboro?

Cools and a 40oz Olde English, each

214 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:36:44am

re: #204 calcajun

Pork rinds? What cigarettes will be served? Kool 100's or Camels?

I love pork rinds!

215 subsailor68  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:37:09am

"You've put your foot in your mouth on national television. You've made things worse by sending out that pinhead press secretary to 'splain things. You've tried to clarify what you said, but nobody's bought it. You've even decided to make a spectacle of yourself again with this silly invitation stuff."

So what time is it?

It's Miller time!

216 jcm  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:37:14am

re: #108 Thanos

I agree but saying he's committed a crime when he was released is fallacious, try to stay factual folks.

Cases like that they are commonly released. When the individual does not comply with officers, they are taken into custody to control the situation.

Gates was arrested based on the items I listed, he was not charged. Determination of a commission of a crime is up to a jury.

True, he has committed no crimes, how every he was arrested on suspicion of those crimes and not charged.

217 JohnnyReb  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:37:31am

re: #214 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I love pork rinds!

Ahhh pork rinds. Fat fried in Fat!

218 BlueCanuck  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:37:41am

re: #208 drcordell

I do believe at the time the police officers had entered his house, Mr. Gates had not confirmed his actual residency there. In fact the police officers were responding to a suspected BnE. Wouldn't need a search warrant in that case.

219 Kragar  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:37:43am

What they need to do is stop by Wings 'N Things and bring over some hot wings.

220 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:37:48am

re: #207 Noam Sayin'

They should go with Surly Beer.

shameless plug for a local brewery. If you like hops, try the Furious.

Surly looks out for one guy - Surly.

221 DaddyG  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:37:54am

Why they serve Red White and Blue beer of course...

Red White and Blue Beer

222 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:38:03am

re: #201 hous bin pharteen

The O smokes Salem Menthols...
Someone hasn't done there home work assignment...Hummm??

223 Van Helsing  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:38:16am

re: #121 zombie

"Sierra Nevada [can] reinforce the idea that whether black or white, rich or poor, we can all get completely soused, get into sloppy fistfights in the parking lot, and grow old with bad breath and a beer belly."

There. Needed some fixing.

I knew someone was watching me...

224 J Doc  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:38:19am

Henry Weinhard's. Best beer in America.

225 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:38:29am

re: #212 reloadingisnotahobby

/forgot the sarc tag.

226 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:38:33am

re: #160 SanFranciscoZionist


Crowley was within rights to take him into custody at that point, I think, based on what I have read about his behavior. I do not know all the case law relating to the Fourth Amendment, but I don't think it rules out the situation that developed. Crowley could probably have avoided the arrest, but it sounds like Gates was not, in fact, establishing that he was the householder.

No. Under Massachusetts law you cannot be disorderly on your own property. Under Federal law unless the police officer has personally witnessed a felony or has a search warrant, he may not enter a home without permission. Gates had every legal right to tell Crowley to leave. The fact that he acted like an asshole while doing so does not strip him of any of his rights under state or federal law. The fact that his arrest was immediately thrown out by the court proves this to be the case.

227 formercorpsman  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:38:50am

re: #171 buzzsawmonkey

This is purely a political op. I think you know my opinion as it relates to this situation.

I am sure some internal folks noticed this snowballed into something way more that it should have, and this is the way to put some spin on it.

Even if Crowley might have suggested talking this out over a beer, certain people have the task of using this opportunity. I understand that, and can't really blame them.

All in all, I will place my bet, that somehow this shindig gets twisted into some race relations PR, and has the connotation of everyone working harder to end racial profiling. I just have a feeling this will be a deflective spring board.

I will admit, if I were the officer, I would go. I would be jovial, civil, and try to make it light.

The one aspect which threw me, it they are supposedly sitting at a picnic table. Listen, there is a bowling alley down there. We can settle this over a game.

228 Kragar  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:38:54am

Real Men of Genius...

Crack open a refreshing Bud Lite, Oh Czar of the Teleprompter.

229 Bob Dillon  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:38:56am

[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]

The Audacity of Hops

At 6 pm ET tonight, President Obama will hoist a cold one with Harvard Prof. Henry Louis Gates, Jr., and Cambridge Police Sgt. Jim Crowley, hoping a "teachable moment" can come from their war or words two weeks ago and the president's comments eight days ago that the Cambridge police "acted stupidly" by arresting Gates.

The president, we are told, will be drinking Bud Light, Crowley will have Blue Moon, and Gates will have Red Stripe -- Red Light and Blue.

230 jcm  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:39:33am

re: #128 calcajun

I'm partial to the Red Hook products-- particularly the IPA.

Down here, the Stone Brewery turns out some nice stuff-- Like Arrogant Bastard Ale.

AB is awesome. Especially the oaked AB.

Our last company event was at the Red Hook Brewery :-)))

Stone Brewery, Dogfish out of Maryland, New Belgium in Colorado, Red Hook here in Washington.

231 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:40:07am

re: #218 BlueCanuck

I do believe at the time the police officers had entered his house, Mr. Gates had not confirmed his actual residency there. In fact the police officers were responding to a suspected BnE. Wouldn't need a search warrant in that case.

Doesn't matter. Here's the video again. The police cannot enter a home unless they have permission, personally witnessed a felony or have a search warrant. None of those three situations apply here. The law is extremely clear-cut about this.

232 Kragar  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:40:20am

re: #227 formercorpsman

This is purely a political op. I think you know my opinion as it relates to this situation.

I am sure some internal folks noticed this snowballed into something way more that it should have, and this is the way to put some spin on it.

Even if Crowley might have suggested talking this out over a beer, certain people have the task of using this opportunity. I understand that, and can't really blame them.

All in all, I will place my bet, that somehow this shindig gets twisted into some race relations PR, and has the connotation of everyone working harder to end racial profiling. I just have a feeling this will be a deflective spring board.

I will admit, if I were the officer, I would go. I would be jovial, civil, and try to make it light.

The one aspect which threw me, it they are supposedly sitting at a picnic table. Listen, there is a bowling alley down there. We can settle this over a game.

They got a lawn, perhaps some bocce ball?

233 lobo91  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:40:22am

re: #189 buzzsawmonkey

Get a "white" beer name in there, and you've got an American flag thing going on.

Here you go: Sam Adams Imperial White

Probably a bit on the strong side for Obama, though, at 10.3% ABV.

234 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:40:23am

Video... Here

235 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:40:23am

re: #228 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Real Men of Genius...

Crack open a refreshing Bud Lite, Oh Czar of the Teleprompter.

Y'know, Obama really hasn't been the same since his teleprompter committed hari-kari a few weeks ago. One can almost tag his declining poll numbers to that very moment.

236 albusteve  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:40:41am

re: #228 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Real Men of Genius...

Crack open a refreshing Bud Lite, Oh Czar of the Teleprompter.

I loved those commercials...the toupe men...haha!

237 Leonidas Hoplite  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:40:46am

Thursday Stupid

238 opnion  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:41:03am

re: #11 Killgore Trout

Somebody once told me the Irish find that name offensive. I think it had something to do with the color of British uniforms.

The Black & Tans were a force of out of work , British war vets.
They were a parliamentary group & black & tan were their uniform colors.
They weer the guys who brought the dreaded knock on the door ion the middle of the night & people disappeared.
The Irish hated them & wrote taunting songs about them.
However you can get a glass of Black & Tan in an Irish pub. it is half Guinness & half a lighter ale

239 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:41:09am

re: #233 lobo91

Here you go: Sam Adams Imperial White

Probably a bit on the strong side for Obama, though, at 10.3% ABV.

I thought maybe Cecil Rhodes would be on the bottle.

240 formercorpsman  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:41:10am

re: #192 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Beer you just read my mind.

I was thinking the same damn thing.

Maybe Buzz does not know, but with the right marketing, I could see that going down.

241 Pullus Iulius  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:41:10am

What a bizarre stunt. This current president reminds me of a fellow I once knew, of whom the best description I ever heard was: "He tries to be a normal guy. But he just isn't."
Kim Jong Il thinks this is strange behavior.

242 jcm  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:41:55am

re: #226 drcordell

No. Under Massachusetts law you cannot be disorderly on your own property. Under Federal law unless the police officer has personally witnessed a felony or has a search warrant, he may not enter a home without permission. Gates had every legal right to tell Crowley to leave. The fact that he acted like an asshole while doing so does not strip him of any of his rights under state or federal law. The fact that his arrest was immediately thrown out by the court proves this to be the case.

Incorrect.

The police were investigating the report of a possible burglary in progress. Gates was unknown to them, and possibly the burglar, also possible the legal resident of the property.

Providing ID upon request in that situation is not only common sense, it's required by law.

243 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:42:03am

re: #236 albusteve

I loved those commercials...the toupe men...haha!

Bud Lite: terrible beer + great commercials = #1 selling beer in world. Advertising works.

244 BlueCanuck  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:42:18am

re: #231 drcordell

So unless a police officer actually witnesses some one breaking into my home. They can't enter it unless I tell them to? What if I am not there? What if it would take to long for a search warrant? Somehow I don't think your knowledge of a police officers duties and responsibilities is all that clear.

245 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:42:23am

re: #231 drcordell

Everyone else here is having fun with this whole thing ...
And then ya get all serious and legal an all...
Don't be a buzz killa Dawg...
LOL

246 Van Helsing  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:42:26am

re: #146 BlueCanuck

Can you call it a piss poor substitute for water?

/light beer == sex in a canoe.

Monty Python

247 Desert Dog  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:42:50am

re: #208 drcordell

Ah, I get it. The Constitution only applies if you are on your best behavior and ask the police to respect your rights "pretty please with a cherry on top." As annoying as this may be to you, acting like a bloody prick is not against the law. Pissing off a Police officer by not "respecting his authoritah" is not against the law.

As protected under the Constitution, the police may only enter your home if they have a search warrant or have personally witnessed a felony. When Gates told Crowley to get out of his house, Crowley legally had no right to be inside the residence. This is not up for debate. Even Fox "News" legal analysts have stated as much on air. Here's the video if you're interested.
Source

So, it's ok to yell and scream at a cop? Let's do an experiment. You call the police and tell them someone is breaking into your house. When they arrive, start yelling at them, calling them names, refuse to cooperate, make references to their mother and see what happens. Let us know, ok?

Police have leeway in this matter, and it has been unheld by the SCOTUS many times. They cannot do an illegal search and seizure. But, Probable Cause will allow them to arrest someone for not cooperating with them.

This was an instance were a little manners would have stopped this at any time along the way. Gates will not be charged with a crime, but he was acting like an idiot. It's not illegal to be an idiot, but it is very stupid to act like one when the cops are asking you questions.

248 Kragar  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:43:31am

re: #236 albusteve

I loved those commercials...the toupe men...haha!

Mr Giant Taco Salad

Ground beef, refried beans, guacamole, cheese, sour cream and, if there is any room left, a few shreads of lettuce.

Some may ask, is your Taco Salad Healthy? Of course it is, it's a salad isn't it?

249 gonecamping  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:43:35am

Unfortunately, if Officer Crowley declined an invite from the One which impugned his professionalism and tossed out the race card ...the finger would wag and point yet again, calling the officer racist for not sitting down with the two provocateurs.

Obama should have apologised and went on about his business.


re: #12 SanFranciscoZionist

I suppose it's difficult to refuse an invitation from the White House, but I sort of wish that Crowley had simply said 'no'.

250 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:43:55am

I'm looking forward to Miller Time... you just know that Dennis is gonna have an hilarious take on this BS...

251 formercorpsman  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:44:04am

re: #232 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)


Invite Berlusconi, and I'm in.

252 lightspeed  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:44:05am

Blue Moon for Crowley? Is it just me, or is he sending a message? Is the "Boy in Blue" going to show his "Moon" to the President and Prof. Gates?

253 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:44:19am

re: #240 formercorpsman

Beer you just read my mind.

I was thinking the same damn thing.

Maybe Buzz does not know, but with the right marketing, I could see that going down.

Except I don't like IPAs, so I'm not likely to brew one anytime soon.

254 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:44:22am

re: #242 jcm

Incorrect.

The police were investigating the report of a possible burglary in progress. Gates was unknown to them, and possibly the burglar, also possible the legal resident of the property.

Providing ID upon request in that situation is not only common sense, it's required by law.

Which part of "the police must personally witness a felony in progress, or have a search warrant" do you not understand? I'll link you to the legal analysis on FOX NEWS no less again. Source If all the police need to search your house is someone claiming they witnessed a crime, the fourth amendment would cease to exist.

255 LGoPs  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:44:59am

re: #208 drcordell

Ah, I get it. The Constitution only applies if you are on your best behavior and ask the police to respect your rights "pretty please with a cherry on top." As annoying as this may be to you, acting like a bloody prick is not against the law. Pissing off a Police officer by not "respecting his authoritah" is not against the law.

As protected under the Constitution, the police may only enter your home if they have a search warrant or have personally witnessed a felony. When Gates told Crowley to get out of his house, Crowley legally had no right to be inside the residence. This is not up for debate. Even Fox "News" legal analysts have stated as much on air. Here's the video if you're interested.
Source

Jeez loueez. I guess based on this the police could never respond to any burglary calls since they haven't personally witnessed the burglary and certainly don't have time to get a warrant when responding to a 9-11 call.
As far as it being lawful to act like an asshole, I agree but I also would point out that it's stupid, and not only with police. I don't get snarky with the guy who takes my order at the fast food place either. Not because he'll call the police on me but because of what he might do to my food.

256 lobo91  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:45:07am

re: #239 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I thought maybe Cecil Rhodes would be on the bottle.

I have some in my refrigerator right now. Good stuff.

Kinda pricey, though. Sells locally for $10.99 for a 4 pack.

257 avanti  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:45:17am

re: #12 SanFranciscoZionist

I suppose it's difficult to refuse an invitation from the White House, but I sort of wish that Crowley had simply said 'no'.

I though he suggested it, or was it Gates ?

258 formercorpsman  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:45:48am

re: #253 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I know. Although Victory is not terrible.

259 opnion  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:46:29am

re: #209 calcajun

Witnesses?

Earlier it was reported that Crowley will have a union rep & a lawyer.
Apparently Crowley, Barry & Skippy Are having beers on a picnic table in the playground area.
I wonder, willl they get something to eat .

260 Desert Dog  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:46:33am

re: #226 drcordell

No. Under Massachusetts law you cannot be disorderly on your own property. Under Federal law unless the police officer has personally witnessed a felony or has a search warrant, he may not enter a home without permission. Gates had every legal right to tell Crowley to leave. The fact that he acted like an asshole while doing so does not strip him of any of his rights under state or federal law. The fact that his arrest was immediately thrown out by the court proves this to be the case.

It was not thrown out by any court. It never made it to a court. The charges where dropped. The cops can and will take you into custody if you do not cooperate with them and they are in their legal powers to do so. It's not illegal to be an asshole, but it is not so smart...Gates is at fault here, not the cops. What is so hard to figure out about that?

261 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:46:40am

re: #247 Desert Dog

So, it's ok to yell and scream at a cop? Let's do an experiment. You call the police and tell them someone is breaking into your house. When they arrive, start yelling at them, calling them names, refuse to cooperate, make references to their mother and see what happens. Let us know, ok?

Police have leeway in this matter, and it has been unheld by the SCOTUS many times. They cannot do an illegal search and seizure. But, Probable Cause will allow them to arrest someone for not cooperating with them.

This was an instance were a little manners would have stopped this at any time along the way. Gates will not be charged with a crime, but he was acting like an idiot. It's not illegal to be an idiot, but it is very stupid to act like one when the cops are asking you questions.

So let me get this straight. Although Gates was acting within his legal rights, because he was rude to the police they can shred State and Federal law to arrest him? Jesus H. Christ.

262 BlueCanuck  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:47:00am

re: #254 drcordell

Alright lets do a hypothetical. Police show up at my door. Say some one has reported a possible break and enter. Their next question is am I the resident and do I have any I.D.. My response would be just one second officer and I will get my wallet. Return and show them my DL and away they go. Now what IF I got belligerent, there's some obvious sign of forced entry. I don't show them any I.D. with my current address. How will they react then?

263 Lee Coller  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:47:02am

re: #254 drcordell

Which part of "the police must personally witness a felony in progress, or have a search warrant" do you not understand? I'll link you to the legal analysis on FOX NEWS no less again. Source If all the police need to search your house is someone claiming they witnessed a crime, the fourth amendment would cease to exist.

You believe everything you hear on fox news?

264 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:47:15am

re: #254 drcordell

Which part of "the police must personally witness a felony in progress, or have a search warrant" do you not understand?


There are reasonable cause to believe and in progress elements that you evidently don't get.

265 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:47:23am
266 formercorpsman  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:47:40am
267 DaddyG  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:47:56am

New front door key $2.78
Leather Wallet with ID pocket $23.00
Six-Pack of Bud $6.59
Setting back race relations 20 years. Priceless.

268 Rancher  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:48:09am
I hope the President has arranged designated drivers for Gates and Crowley. Wouldn’t want anyone ending up with a DUI after this.


I pity any poor cop who pulls over Gates.

269 hous bin pharteen  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:48:15am

re: #222 reloadingisnotahobby

Home work? Ummm...ahhh... it is here in my book bag...yeah, yeah, that's it!! Can I go to the bathroom?

270 formercorpsman  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:48:19am

re: #265 buzzsawmonkey

I know. I can dream, can't I?

271 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:48:39am

In my stupid youth...
I told two Police Officers that "If you don't have a warrant or Probable Cause your both F'ing Tresspassing"!!
They left!
Blew my mind "I was that Close Chief"!!

272 debutaunt  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:48:46am

re: #257 avanti

I though he suggested it, or was it Gates ?

Suggested beer at the White House?

273 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:49:34am

re: #261 drcordell

Next time someone tries to break into Gates' house, the cops should tell him to call Al Sharpton.

274 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:49:39am
275 Desert Dog  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:50:47am

re: #261 drcordell

So let me get this straight. Although Gates was acting within his legal rights, because he was rude to the police they can shred State and Federal law to arrest him? Jesus H. Christ.

Shred? Hyperbole!

I understand now. Yes, that rouge cop Crowley is out of control! HE should be arrested to trampling on the rights of poor Dr. Gates.

Do you think the police cannot take you into custody if you are verbally abusive to them? If so, you are pretty naive for such a smart guy.

276 jcm  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:50:47am

re: #254 drcordell

Which part of "the police must personally witness a felony in progress, or have a search warrant" do you not understand? I'll link you to the legal analysis on FOX NEWS no less again. Source If all the police need to search your house is someone claiming they witnessed a crime, the fourth amendment would cease to exist.

What part of investigation of reported possible felony don't you understand?

By your standard, no crime on private property could be investigated unless the a police officer witnessed it.

The witness of felony in progress, or search warrant applies to an officer acting on his own initiative. i.e. randomly kick in doors. It does not apply to reports of felonies by 911 callers, hence the term investigation of possible felony.

The officer is making a determination whether a felony is in progress. Based on credible witness calling 911.

277 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:50:54am

"Beer OClock"...

Haven't heard that in years.

Thanks Charles. I had forgotten that expression.

278 ROPMA  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:50:54am

Gates should have watched this

I suggest that they drink Arrow head beer

279 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:50:59am

Obama : Bud
Gates : Weiss
Crowley : Errr.

280 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:51:24am

re: #274 buzzsawmonkey

I have a suspicion that Budweiser was better before Prohibition; there were too many German immigrants with live memories of the real thing for them to have done so well otherwise.

They could get away with it after Repeal, after more than a decade of poor substitutes.

You're pretty much on the mark. American beers were watered down during Prohibition, then brewed with cheaper fillers like rice during the Depression.

281 Maui Girl  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:51:41am

re: #233 lobo91

Here you go: Sam Adams Imperial White

Probably a bit on the strong side for Obama, though, at 10.3% ABV.

Just a bit? The fool drinks Bud Lite. Bud Lite is NOT beer, just colored water. One SA Imp White and BO's on the floor!

282 opnion  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:51:56am

re: #257 avanti

I though he suggested it, or was it Gates ?

USA Today reported this morning that the whole thing was Obamas idea.
Several nights ago ABC said that Crowley suggested it.

283 JustABill  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:51:58am

re: #256 lobo91

I have some in my refrigerator right now. Good stuff.

Kinda pricey, though. Sells locally for $10.99 for a 4 pack.

Beer sold in a 4 pack, thats just wrong somehow.

284 Van Helsing  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:52:00am

re: #280 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

You're pretty much on the mark. American beers were watered down during Prohibition, then brewed with cheaper fillers like rice during the Depression.

Those were dark days indeed.

285 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:52:08am

re: #267 DaddyG
yes.. and adding

derailing the Obamacare boondoggle... priceless.
286 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:52:29am

I wish I could get Walter to send me some Beehive Ale.

nom nom nom sluuurp!

287 zombie  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:52:29am

re: #279 SasquatchOnSteroids

Obama : Bud
Gates : Weiss
Crowley : Errr.

More like:

Gates: B'ud
Crowley: weiss
Obama: "Errr..."

288 albusteve  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:52:36am

lot's of old timers in this one


289 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:52:52am

Bud Light? (sorry if already posted)

290 Wendya  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:52:55am

re: #226 drcordell

No. Under Massachusetts law you cannot be disorderly on your own property. Under Federal law unless the police officer has personally witnessed a felony or has a search warrant, he may not enter a home without permission.

This is not true. The officer was called to the residence because a witness saw two men forcing their way into the house. When the officer arrived at the house and saw the damaged door, he had probable cause to enter the house and determine if they belonged there and if Gates was being held against his will.

Gates had every legal right to tell Crowley to leave. The fact that he acted like an asshole while doing so does not strip him of any of his rights under state or federal law. The fact that his arrest was immediately thrown out by the court proves this to be the case.

Crowley had not only a legal right but an obligation to ascertain that Gates belonged in the home. When Gates finally complied, Crowley left the home and Gates followed him outside the house and continued his verbal assault, drawing a crowd with his actions. That's why he was arrested. He was no longer in his home. If you think you have a legal right to stand on your property line and hurl insults and abuse at neighbors or law enforcement, well... give it a shot and let us know how it works out for ya. As for the arrest being dismissed, that is not proof of the righteousness of Gates actions, rather the cowardice of the DA.

291 Ziggy Standard  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:53:00am

re: #156 iceweasel

Jimmah-- totally agree with you on that. You might also like Balko's piece in Reason (h/t razorbacker)

[Link: www.reason.com...]

Good piece.

"Contempt of cop," as it's sometimes called, isn't a crime.

That's the bottom line for me as well.

292 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:53:05am

re: #260 Desert Dog

It was not thrown out by any court. It never made it to a court. The charges where dropped. The cops can and will take you into custody if you do not cooperate with them and they are in their legal powers to do so. It's not illegal to be an asshole, but it is not so smart...Gates is at fault here, not the cops. What is so hard to figure out about that?

Here is a great piece written by a lawyer for Forbes magazine about the unconstitutionality of Gates' arrest. Source

293 KenJen  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:53:37am

This whole thing is crazy. The only people who should be invited to the White House are Crowley and his department. They are the ones who Obama called stupid in front of the country. They shouldn't be going there for a beer. They should be going there for an sincere apology from the President.

294 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:53:45am

They should all have a Samel L. Jackson.

www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=11903

295 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:53:59am

re: #287 zombie

More like:

Gates: B'ud
Crowley: weiss
Obama: "Errr..."

Way better.

296 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:54:03am

My favorite beer commercial of all time.

The First Lite Beer Camping Trip

297 John Neverbend  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:54:08am

re: #34 Charles

Two of the craziest wingnuts in American politics, together at last:

Here's what McCarthy wrote. I read it earlier this morning.

Suborned in the U.S.A.

298 lobo91  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:54:18am

re: #283 JustABill

Beer sold in a 4 pack, thats just wrong somehow.

After making the mistake of drinking 3 of them pretty quickly the first time I bought it, I figured it was a safety issue...

299 gonecamping  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:54:50am

Perhaps he is a 'typical' 3 beer guy? Drink one, spill one, give one away..

re: #281 Maui Girl

Just a bit? The fool drinks Bud Lite. Bud Lite is NOT beer, just colored water. One SA Imp White and BO's on the floor!

300 hous bin pharteen  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:54:56am

They aren't going to serve yuengling. Obama and the professor will be to afraid of it.

301 Kragar  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:55:03am

re: #281 Maui Girl

Just a bit? The fool drinks Bud Lite. Bud Lite is NOT beer, just colored water. One SA Imp White and BO's on the floor!

I can see him wandering the WH lawn, "THIS IS MY HOUSE DAMMIT!"

302 Pickles  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:55:10am

Bud Light. Blech. Pass on that one!

303 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:55:16am

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

~Tom Waits on "Fernwood 2Night"

304 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:55:28am

re: #282 opnion

The thing has the inexperienced fingerprints of Rahm and/or Axelrod all over it. You can just see them giggling as they cooked it up, and yet after it tanks O's polls, there's a faint ' ruh-roh'...

305 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:56:22am

re: #276 jcm

What part of investigation of reported possible felony don't you understand?

By your standard, no crime on private property could be investigated unless the a police officer witnessed it.

The witness of felony in progress, or search warrant applies to an officer acting on his own initiative. i.e. randomly kick in doors. It does not apply to reports of felonies by 911 callers, hence the term investigation of possible felony.

The officer is making a determination whether a felony is in progress. Based on credible witness calling 911.

It's not "my standard." It's the standard of the fucking Constitution and Massachusetts law.

306 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:56:29am

re: #286 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I wish I could get Walter to send me some Beehive Ale.

nom nom nom sluuurp!

I will. What is that? What beehive do I get it from and will I get stung trying to get it?

307 Kragar  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:56:58am

re: #304 tradewind

The thing has the inexperienced fingerprints of Rahm and/or Axelrod all over it. You can just see them giggling as they cooked it up, and yet after it tanks O's polls, there's a faint ' ruh-roh'...

Meanwhile, Rove chuckes and just shakes his head while wearing a knowing grin.

308 John Neverbend  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:57:15am

re: #293 KenJen

This whole thing is crazy. The only people who should be invited to the White House are Crowley and his department. They are the ones who Obama called stupid in front of the country. They shouldn't be going there for a beer. They should be going there for an sincere apology from the President.

If I understand correctly, it was Crowley's idea. He wanted, however, to go as the representative of the police force. If indeed he did request this meeting, I think he has greatly reduced the chance of getting an apology, but perhaps he was aiming more for a general reconciliation.

309 JHW  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:57:29am

Good old Ba-Mi-Ba,rumored to have exotic ingredients 33 Export

310 albusteve  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:57:56am

re: #293 KenJen

This whole thing is crazy. The only people who should be invited to the White House are Crowley and his department. They are the ones who Obama called stupid in front of the country. They shouldn't be going there for a beer. They should be going there for an sincere apology from the President.

agreed...I find the whole thing sort of obscene

311 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:58:51am

re: #290 Wendya

Crowley had not only a legal right but an obligation to ascertain that Gates belonged in the home. When Gates finally complied, Crowley left the home and Gates followed him outside the house and continued his verbal assault, drawing a crowd with his actions. That's why he was arrested. He was no longer in his home. If you think you have a legal right to stand on your property line and hurl insults and abuse at neighbors or law enforcement, well... give it a shot and let us know how it works out for ya. As for the arrest being dismissed, that is not proof of the righteousness of Gates actions, rather the cowardice of the DA.

I do have a legal right to stand on my property line and hurl insults at law enforcement. This is AMERICA. I have no doubt that it is a stupid thing to do, because "contempt of cop" has become an arrestable offense in this country. That doesn't mean it's legal. Does anyone here understand the difference between the law and the law as enforced by a cop with a chip on his shoulder?

312 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:59:27am

re: #296 NJDhockeyfan

RIP Rodney.

Thanks.

313 Dianna  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:59:41am

re: #242 jcm

Incorrect.

The police were investigating the report of a possible burglary in progress. Gates was unknown to them, and possibly the burglar, also possible the legal resident of the property.

Providing ID upon request in that situation is not only common sense, it's required by law.

Years ago, during my remodel, my friend who was handling the contracting answered the phone. The person on the other end didn't recognize his voice, and called the police.

They had me woken up, and had me step outside - well away from my friend - and verify 1) my identity and 2) that I wasn't under duress.

If I'd gone nuts, I imagine they would have arrested me.

Gates behavior was out of line.

314 opnion  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:59:54am

re: #304 tradewind

The thing has the inexperienced fingerprints of Rahm and/or Axelrod all over it. You can just see them giggling as they cooked it up, and yet after it tanks O's polls, there's a faint ' ruh-roh'...

I am really sorry that Crowley is going. I think that he will just be a prop in a smug publicity stunt.
What he should do is ask BHO to play a game of catch in front of the cameras.

315 avanti  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 10:59:57am

re: #308 John Neverbend

If I understand correctly, it was Crowley's idea. He wanted, however, to go as the representative of the police force. If indeed he did request this meeting, I think he has greatly reduced the chance of getting an apology, but perhaps he was aiming more for a general reconciliation.

"Obama later telephoned both men and, on Crowley's suggestion, invited the two to the White House for a beer."

beer.

316 Wendya  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:00:32am

re: #254 drcordell

Which part of "the police must personally witness a felony in progress, or have a search warrant" do you not understand? I'll link you to the legal analysis on FOX NEWS no less again. Source If all the police need to search your house is someone claiming they witnessed a crime, the fourth amendment would cease to exist.

What part of Probable Cause don't you understand?

317 Desert Dog  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:00:34am

re: #268 Rancher

I pity any poor cop who pulls over Gates.

re: #292 drcordell

Here is a great piece written by a lawyer for Forbes magazine about the unconstitutionality of Gates' arrest. Source

Well, according to the new rules here, you can yell and scream at them, refuse to cooperate with them, call their mother names and insult them all you want. Just whip out your copy of the Constitution and tell them to fuck off and drive away.

I read that as well.

Should Dr. Gates get charged in this matter, he can use that as a defense. In the meantime, here in the real world, if you verbally abuse a police officer, there is a good chance you will be take into custody and taken down the the police station. Are you asserting that the cops cannot do that? Try it yourself. Next time you get pulled over or the police show up at your door, start screaming at the cops, whip out your copy of the Constitution and call their mother names. See if that stops them from arresting your ass and taking you in. It will get the charges dropped somewhere along the line, but it will not stop them from arresting you. They have the LEGAL power to do that.

318 BlueCanuck  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:00:38am

re: #311 drcordell

Here's a buggy whip. I think there's a deceased equine that needs beating.

/you are doing a damn fine job...

319 Pianobuff  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:01:01am

re: #311 drcordell

I do have a legal right to stand on my property line and hurl insults at law enforcement. This is AMERICA. I have no doubt that it is a stupid thing to do, because "contempt of cop" has become an arrestable offense in this country. That doesn't mean it's legal. Does anyone here understand the difference between the law and the law as enforced by a cop with a chip on his shoulder?

I thought I had heard that in MA law that if it is deemed tumultous or inciteful behavior than it could still be considered creating a disturbance even if one was within their property line. Am I wrong about that?

Does anybody here have the MA statute?

320 Maui Girl  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:02:08am

I think the poor woman, who reported the possible crime, who has been trashed by the media and others falsing accusing her of racism should be invited to the White House. She should be given some kind of commendation for being a good citizen. Gates should be thanking her for being diligent and willing to step up and call 911. What happens when she witnesses another break-in somewhere near her home? She will hesitate and probably NOT call 911.

321 jcm  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:02:11am

re: #305 drcordell

It's not "my standard." It's the standard of the fucking Constitution and Massachusetts law.

How then do police investigate 911 calls?

322 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:02:17am

re: #314 opnion

I just hope his buddies are backing him up and sending him message after message with ' whatever you do, do NOT freakin' apologize'.
That's what will make me throw up.

323 Dianna  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:02:22am

re: #305 drcordell

It's not "my standard." It's the standard of the fucking Constitution and Massachusetts law.

Since he didn't identify himself as the householder, why weren't the police justified? Considering that there had been other break-ins in the area? And he was shouting at them?

Forgive me, but I really don't understand your point, though made with increasing vigor and volume.

324 DaddyG  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:02:24am

They were correct to ask Gates for ID to verify he was the owner.
They were correct to cuff him and take him out of the situation when he went ape on them and refused to cooperate.
They were correct to drop the charges when they verified he was just a jerk and not a perp.
No one's civil rights were violated and MA law was preserved.

This is really a non-issue.

325 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:02:30am

I could care less what these three drink at the White House. Did it ever need to rise to the level of a national debate? Nope. But for the fact that Obama stuck his own nose into the incident and got egg on his face for prejudicing any potential case that could be brought by Gates against the officer, this wouldn't be an issue at all.

All I know is that incident and Obama's handling of same means I need to get myself a drink. Many drinks. A Newcastle perhaps. Maybe even Bass or Smithwicks or Boddingtons. Heck, I could go with a He'Brew or a Maccabee. Or, Blue Pointe.

Or, I could start with the Newcastle, and end with the Blue Pointe... yes, that's the ticket.

326 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:02:59am

re: #319 Pianobuff

I thought I had heard that in MA law that if it is deemed tumultous or inciteful behavior than it could still be considered creating a disturbance even if one was within their property line. Am I wrong about that?

Does anybody here have the MA statute?

Here is Judge Napolitano's legal analysis. His conclusion is that by definition under MA law you can't be disorderly on your own property.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYo6dR0tf_I

327 Wendya  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:03:01am

re: #311 drcordell

I do have a legal right to stand on my property line and hurl insults at law enforcement. This is AMERICA. I have no doubt that it is a stupid thing to do, because "contempt of cop" has become an arrestable offense in this country. That doesn't mean it's legal. Does anyone here understand the difference between the law and the law as enforced by a cop with a chip on his shoulder?

Never heard of Disturbing the peace, have you?

You're all about your "rights" but you're scoring low on responsibility.

328 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:03:01am

Just heard on the radio that they are switching to a table in the Rose Garden from a picnic table in the playground area.

I've been in the Rose Garden.

329 debutaunt  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:03:21am

re: #318 BlueCanuck

Here's a buggy whip. I think there's a deceased equine that needs beating.

/you are doing a damn fine job...

There must be a pony under all of that.

330 Maui Girl  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:03:32am

Already the media is touting this as a whole "race repair" situation. Ridiculous. Isn't there something much more important going on this country right now?

Total "Wagging the Dog" moment. Kind of reminds me of the movie "Swing Vote" too.

331 tradewind  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:03:40am

re: #324 DaddyG

This is really a non issue


... and would have remained so had TOTUS not jumped in.

332 debutaunt  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:05:14am

re: #328 Noam Sayin'

Just heard on the radio that they are switching to a table in the Rose Garden from a picnic table in the playground area.

I've been in the Rose Garden.

Based on a promise?

333 dominic yeso  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:05:15am

re: #319 Pianobuff

If such a statute exists then it would seem that there are first amendment rights issues involved.

drcordell makes a good point in that there are differences between the judiciary and law enforcement.

334 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:05:35am

re: #321 jcm

How then do police investigate 911 calls?

By showing up, and investigating the scene. There is a huge legal difference between showing up at the house and investigating from outside the front door, and entering the house without a search warrant or having witnessed a felony in progress. That is what is at the heart of the issue here. The police cannot simply barge into your house simply because someone called 911. Ever watch cops? They don't just kick in the door, they knock, say "police" and only go inside a house when someone answers and lets them inside.

335 Dianna  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:05:37am

re: #320 Maui Girl

I think the poor woman, who reported the possible crime, who has been trashed by the media and others falsing accusing her of racism should be invited to the White House. She should be given some kind of commendation for being a good citizen. Gates should be thanking her for being diligent and willing to step up and call 911. What happens when she witnesses another break-in somewhere near her home? She will hesitate and probably NOT call 911.

Just imagine if it had been a break in. Gates should thank the lady, but he won't. It's much more fun to hurl accusations in all directions.

336 Maui Girl  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:05:50am

re: #311 drcordell

Didn't your mother ever teach you that you attract more flies with honey, than vinegar? OR A smile goes a long way.

You're right that you have a "right" to be a belligerant ass, but life is so much easier being nice.

337 albusteve  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:05:56am

re: #325 lawhawk

I could care less what these three drink at the White House. Did it ever need to rise to the level of a national debate? Nope. But for the fact that Obama stuck his own nose into the incident and got egg on his face for prejudicing any potential case that could be brought by Gates against the officer, this wouldn't be an issue at all.

All I know is that incident and Obama's handling of same means I need to get myself a drink. Many drinks. A Newcastle perhaps. Maybe even Bass or Smithwicks or Boddingtons. Heck, I could go with a He'Brew or a Maccabee. Or, Blue Pointe.

Or, I could start with the Newcastle, and end with the Blue Pointe... yes, that's the ticket.


Zen...the Art of Beer
it is in the journey weedhoppa

338 ErnieG  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:06:06am

On the subject of beer commercials, here's one of my favorites, for an Aussie beer.

And here's the Miller Lite Catfight.

339 opnion  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:06:06am

re: #322 tradewind

I just hope his buddies are backing him up and sending him message after message with ' whatever you do, do NOT freakin' apologize'.
That's what will make me throw up.

Me too. The CPD & the union backed him 100%. I would say that he has an obligation to them not to get caught up in the moment & wuss out.

340 Dianna  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:06:37am

re: #324 DaddyG

What good does sweet reason do?

341 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:08:11am

re: #327 Wendya

Never heard of Disturbing the peace, have you?

You're all about your "rights" but you're scoring low on responsibility.

Some Conservative you are huh? The Constitution exists to protect people who are both responsible and irresponsible. The First Amendment allows hatemongers to spew Nazi filth, just as it allows you to post your opinions to this blog uncensored. You can't have one without allowing the other. Distasteful use of rights is not a reason to strip them away. It's the reason they exist in the first place.

342 Silvergirl  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:08:21am

Drinking Vocabulary Challenge

Things that are difficult to say when you're drunk...

a) Innovative
b) Preliminary
c) Proliferation
d) Cinnamon

Things that are VERY difficult to say when you're drunk...

a) Specificity
b) British Constitution
c) Passive-aggressive disorder
d) Transubstantiate

Things that are ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE to say when you're drunk...

a) Thanks, but I don't want to sleep with you.
b) Nope, no more booze for me.
c) Sorry, but you're not really my type.
d) Good evening officer, isn't it lovely out tonight?
e) I'm not interested in fighting you.
f) Oh, I just couldn't - no one wants to hear me sing.
g) Thank you, but I won't make any attempt to dance, I have no co-ordination. I'd hate to look like a fool.
h) Where is the nearest toilet? I refuse to vomit in the street.
i) I must be going home now. I have work in the morning.

343 jcm  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:08:53am

re: #334 drcordell

Read the report...

344 Dianna  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:09:56am

re: #341 drcordell

But Gates behaved in a completely unreasonable fashion, and even an irresponsible one.

I do not quite see how his "rights" were violated, when he did not behave responsibly?

345 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:10:02am
346 John Neverbend  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:10:47am

re: #314 opnion

I am really sorry that Crowley is going. I think that he will just be a prop in a smug publicity stunt.
What he should do is ask BHO to play a game of catch in front of the cameras.

If I read this correctly, he's doing it to try to convince Gates and Obama that the police are not racially biased in the way that Gates and Obama clearly believe they are. In this endeavour, I think he will be necessarily defeated. Nevertheless, if that's the case, he should make it public that he attempted to do so and failed. Of course, that won't happen.

347 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:10:51am
348 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:11:55am

re: #317 Desert Dog

Next time you get pulled over or the police show up at your door, start screaming at the cops, whip out your copy of the Constitution and call their mother names. See if that stops them from arresting your ass and taking you in. It will get the charges dropped somewhere along the line, but it will not stop them from arresting you. They have the LEGAL power to do that.

Here is your disconnect. You are attempting to conflate legal rights as written, with laws as enforced by the police. Shouting at a police officer is a GUARANTEED WAY to get yourself arrested. That does not mean the officer had the legal right to do so. It means he is a police officer, and he does whatever the fuck he wants, then writes up a report to conform to his actions later.

I am not attempting to claim that mouthing off to the police will not get you arrested. I am attempting to explain that the police do not have the legal power to arrest you for being a douche bag. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

349 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:12:50am

re: #344 Dianna

But Gates behaved in a completely unreasonable fashion, and even an irresponsible one.

I do not quite see how his "rights" were violated, when he did not behave responsibly?

What does behaving responsibly have to do with the Constitution? Find me the clause that states the First and Fourth amendments become null and void when you act like an asshole?

350 dominic yeso  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:13:28am

re: #341 drcordell

Bravo. The unrelenting quest for law & order and "public safety" has to be tempered by some measure of reason and the constitution is the only thing that we have to level set the various interpretations of such notions.

351 ShanghaiEd  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:14:53am

re: #252 lightspeed

Blue Moon for Crowley? Is it just me, or is he sending a message? Is the "Boy in Blue" going to show his "Moon" to the President and Prof. Gates?

BLUE MOON
The Marcels
- words by Lorenz Hart, music by Richard Rodgers

Blue Moon, you saw me standing alone
Without a dream in my heart
Without a love of my own

Blue Moon, you knew just what I was there for
You heard me saying a prayer for
Someone I really could care for

And then there suddenly appeared before me
The only one my arms will ever hold
I heard somebody whisper, "Please adore me"
And when I looked, the moon had turned to gold

Blue Moon, now I'm no longer alone
Without a dream in my heart
Without a love of my own

***
Just a thought. :)

352 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:15:26am

re: #343 jcm

Notice that Crowley leaves out any mention of when he entered the house. He simply indicates that he observed Gates through the patio door, and then without any further mention of asking to enter the home, he is informing Gates that he is leaving the residence. When did he enter the home?

353 jcm  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:17:05am

re: #349 drcordell

What does behaving responsibly have to do with the Constitution? Find me the clause that states the First and Fourth amendments become null and void when you act like an asshole?

Between yesterday and today you have a HUGE misconception of rights, Federal and local authority.

Nothing in the Constitution says how a local can enforce the laws it puts on the books. Provided enumerated rights are not violated.

Gates rights were not violated. Gates had not yet shown it was property, police had reason to believe the person they were contacting was a burglar. Gates had a positive duty in that case to provide the proof it was his property.

354 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:19:21am
355 Wendya  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:20:38am

re: #334 drcordell

By showing up, and investigating the scene. There is a huge legal difference between showing up at the house and investigating from outside the front door, and entering the house without a search warrant or having witnessed a felony in progress. That is what is at the heart of the issue here. The police cannot simply barge into your house simply because someone called 911. Ever watch cops? They don't just kick in the door, they knock, say "police" and only go inside a house when someone answers and lets them inside.

There is no way to ascertain if the person in the home belongs there unless they come to the door and identify themselves. By asking them to step outside, the police can also determine if they are being held against their will. Since the door was obviously damaged and Gates refused to identify himself, the officer had probable cause to enter the residence to determine if the persons inside were the residents and if they were under any threat.

356 Wendya  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:22:20am

re: #341 drcordell

Some Conservative you are huh? The Constitution exists to protect people who are both responsible and irresponsible. The First Amendment allows hatemongers to spew Nazi filth, just as it allows you to post your opinions to this blog uncensored. You can't have one without allowing the other. Distasteful use of rights is not a reason to strip them away. It's the reason they exist in the first place.

You really have no understanding of "rights". Do you think you have a right to put a megaphone outside your house and broadcast racial epithets to the entire neighborhood using your "property rights" as justification? What about the rights of everyone else?

357 Ziggy Standard  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:25:48am

re: #354 buzzsawmonkey

Suggesting that it does-- that the Constitution is tottering because of this incident--is howling lunacy. It is the same overheated rhetoric

Who said the constitution was 'tottering'?

358 dominic yeso  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:25:59am

re: #354 buzzsawmonkey

From my perspective I don't see any violation of Gate's rights, nor do I think that Crowley was wrong. This was an incident that worked out well except for the TOTUS comments - no charges sticking, no trial, etc. However, drcordell's comments are a good reminder that there are bounds and defending those boundaries is necessary in order to preserve our freedom.

359 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:27:23am

re: #354 buzzsawmonkey

The exercise of rights under the Constitution also depends upon public order, which means that the police need to be able to do their job.

Gates' treatment, even if it is an example of police overzealousness--not a sure thing by any means--does not rise to the level of a denial of constitutional rights.

Suggesting that it does--that the Constitution is tottering because of this incident--is howling lunacy. It is the same overheated rhetoric that one would see in placard form at an ANSWER demonstration. Trying to throw in aspersions about someone's "conservatism" because they do not conform to your radical-left views of what rights, and conservatives, "should" be is incredibly silly.

That statement was not necessarily directly regarding the Gates case. It was in response to the statement that one only deserves their "rights" if they are acting responsibly.

Nobody is suggesting that the Gates case specifically is threatening the Constitution. It is simply an extremely high visibility example of the growing power that Police exercise daily in America with little or no repercussion. Other examples include 85-year-old grandmothers being tasered on the side of the road. Or a mentally-handicapped being pepper sprayed and then tasered while in the restroom of a Dollar General store. Such is the state of law enforcement in America, that even the smallest perceived slight or lack of deference to an officer justifies beating, tasering or pepper spraying.

The e-mail of the Boston Police Officer who was just fired for his racist comments illustrates this attitude the best. "His first priority of concern should be to get off the phone and comply with police, for if I was the officer he verbally assaulted like a banana-eating jungle monkey, I would have sprayed him in the face with OC deserving of his belligerent non-compliance."

360 Ziggy Standard  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:28:01am

I like to see the police get heavy with real criminals - this sort of nonsense doesn't impress me one bit, and doesn't strike me as a good example of 'cops doing their job' in any useful sense whatsoever. As soon as Crowley realised he was talking to the legal occupant, he should have backed off, whether Gates was being an asshole or not (on his own property).

361 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:29:31am

re: #356 Wendya

No, I didn't say you have a right to put a megaphone on your house and yell racial epithets. You do have a right to yell them at someone who is on your property though. Who said anything about using a megaphone?

Simply because you find something distasteful does not mean it is not Constitutionally protected. If the Constitution was enforced using your standards I shudder to think what would and would not be a "right."

362 ShanghaiEd  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:29:59am

re: #358 dominic yeso

From my perspective I don't see any violation of Gate's rights, nor do I think that Crowley was wrong. This was an incident that worked out well except for the TOTUS comments - no charges sticking, no trial, etc. However, drcordell's comments are a good reminder that there are bounds and defending those boundaries is necessary in order to preserve our freedom.

Dominic: "No charges sticking" is an example of "working out well"? Works out well if you're not the one being arrested, IMO.

363 BlueCanuck  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:32:46am

re: #359 drcordell

I think all those examples of bad policing are minor. How often do we hear of police doing their jobs well? And I believe in each of those cases you mentioned the police officers were properly disciplined for the breaches. Yes there are bad police, there are also far more good police doing what they are supposed to do. All this constitutional rights breaking you are screaming about isn't what the whole situation is about. Yes the constitution enumerates rights, yes the police have to follow the law. The police also have latitude in how they should respond to each and every call. If they make a wrong call there can and sometimes is an inquiry to what went down. Now please sit down and calm down.

364 apachegunner  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:32:47am

re: #359 drcordell you really, really have a problem with police doncha

365 dominic yeso  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:33:40am

re: #362 ShanghaiEd

Well things happen to to folks that act like assholes.

366 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:35:59am

re: #364 apachegunner

I have a problem with Police who act like they are above the law themselves.

367 ShanghaiEd  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:36:15am

re: #365 dominic yeso

Well things happen to to folks that act like assholes.

Except...if there was a statute against acting like an asshole, half of my family would be in jail. And pretty much all my in-laws. :)

368 apachegunner  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:36:50am

re: #366 drcordell

I have a problem with Police who act like they are above the law themselves.


and your tagging Officer Crowley?

369 nikis-knight  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:39:50am

re: #363 BlueCanuck

I think all those examples of bad policing are minor.

Not minor at all, imo, but hopefully rare.

370 BlueCanuck  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:41:19am

re: #369 nikis-knight

Gah, not what I meant to type. Brain short circuited. Meant a minor faction of the police force. :p

371 dominic yeso  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:45:35am

re: #367 ShanghaiEd

And me too on occasions :)

The point is that things don't always go your way when your acting up or using bad judgment however there are boundaries to the consequences.

372 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:50:24am

Here's another example of the kind of shit that has started to happen more and more. Say something a Police Officer doesn't like, and you spend the night in jail. Source

Here are the money quotes:

District resident Pepin Tuma, 33, an attorney in private practice, said the arrest took place at 17th and U streets, N.W., shortly after midnight July 26, seconds after a police officer overheard him telling two friends “jokingly” and in a loud voice, “I hate the police.”

Tuma said that after repeating twice to his friends in a “sing-song” voice, “I hate the police,” an officer “charged 40-50 feet towards us while yelling at me phrases like ‘who do you think you are’ and ‘who do you think you’re talking to.’”

“I said nothing at this time, except asking why I was being detained, whether I was being arrested, and my belief that it was not a crime to offer an opinion to my friends about the police,” Tuma wrote in his e-mail to Lanier.

He said the officer, later identified as Second District Officer J. Culp, pushed him against a transformer box, placed him under arrest and handcuffed him without immediately informing him of the charge.

“As Officer Culp moved me toward a police cruiser, he told me to ‘just shut up, faggot,’” Tuma told Lanier in his e-mail.

373 gregb  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:54:18am

One bottle of Lost Abbey of any stripe is enough for me...

Oops--thought this thread was about beer, not racial politics.

374 BlueCanuck  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:55:06am

re: #373 gregb

Ah finally a lite of rationallity. :)

375 hous bin pharteen  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:58:47am

Why should the police now respond to a 911 call in a hurry when this crap is so popular? If you are being robed, beaten, or raped. Just hire an attorney to file charges after. Why have a cop respond to the 911 call? With this crap, he should just go for coffee before responding.

376 doubter4444  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 12:17:41pm

I'm sort of surprised at the postition most posters here are taking.
Like it or not, Gates acting like an Asshat is not illegal. And while I think he was incredibly stupid, childish and obnoxious, it still is not right to arrest the guy because of it.
The real point (made above) is this:
You can act like a ultra dick to a cop. you will get (most likely) arrested for it.
But that does not make the arrest legal, or right.

Look, I'm as lily-white as it gets, and I've been hassled by prick cops before, to the point of (almost) losing my temper. I did not for the very reason we are discussing, I did the math and did not want to spend the time and effort to rebuke the guy for the personal satisfaction of speaking my mind.
I've also been dealt with fairly and professionally too, much more often, and frankly, rather than excuse the actions of the few dicks I've run across, it makes my more angry to encounter them, as they do so much damage to the image that they uphold.
And that's a white-bread, middle class, "normal looking" guy.

So I'm with the Reason crowd on this, Contempt of Cop should not be illegal. They (Gates and Crowley) were both wrong.
Gates was a dick and his constitutional rights were not infringed; Crowley over-reacted and came pretty damn close to doing so.

I understand the pressure cops are under, and know a few personally (I live in the best small town in the middle of LA, so it's easy to get to know the local cops), and my Father in-law was a prosecutor for Bergen county till he retired. So, I'm not speaking out my ass.
And yet even here, I've met some real pricks that are all about their authority.

Me personally, I always lean to the side of personal rights (and responsibilities) and kinda am a little bit taken aback that so many think it's OK to be arrested for sassing a cop, rudely or not.

Just saying.

377 ShanghaiEd  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 12:25:30pm

re: #376 doubter4444

I'm sort of surprised at the postition most posters here are taking.
Like it or not, Gates acting like an Asshat is not illegal. And while I think he was incredibly stupid, childish and obnoxious, it still is not right to arrest the guy because of it.
The real point (made above) is this:
You can act like a ultra dick to a cop. you will get (most likely) arrested for it.
But that does not make the arrest legal, or right.

Look, I'm as lily-white as it gets, and I've been hassled by prick cops before, to the point of (almost) losing my temper. I did not for the very reason we are discussing, I did the math and did not want to spend the time and effort to rebuke the guy for the personal satisfaction of speaking my mind.
I've also been dealt with fairly and professionally too, much more often, and frankly, rather than excuse the actions of the few dicks I've run across, it makes my more angry to encounter them, as they do so much damage to the image that they uphold.
And that's a white-bread, middle class, "normal looking" guy.

So I'm with the Reason crowd on this, Contempt of Cop should not be illegal. They (Gates and Crowley) were both wrong.
Gates was a dick and his constitutional rights were not infringed; Crowley over-reacted and came pretty damn close to doing so.

I understand the pressure cops are under, and know a few personally (I live in the best small town in the middle of LA, so it's easy to get to know the local cops), and my Father in-law was a prosecutor for Bergen county till he retired. So, I'm not speaking out my ass.
And yet even here, I've met some real pricks that are all about their authority.

Me personally, I always lean to the side of personal rights (and responsibilities) and kinda am a little bit taken aback that so many think it's OK to be arrested for sassing a cop, rudely or not.

Just saying.

Doubter: But don't you know...9/11 changed everything.
/

378 Wendya  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 12:45:08pm

re: #361 drcordell

No, I didn't say you have a right to put a megaphone on your house and yell racial epithets. You do have a right to yell them at someone who is on your property though. Who said anything about using a megaphone?

Simply because you find something distasteful does not mean it is not Constitutionally protected. If the Constitution was enforced using your standards I shudder to think what would and would not be a "right."

You seem to be under the mistaken impression you can do and say anything you wish as long as you are standing on your property. I am pointing out that you don't have a "right" to cause a public disturbance on your property.

The constitution is not nearly as broad as you wish it to be.

379 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 1:14:44pm

re: #378 Wendya

You seem to be under the mistaken impression you can do and say anything you wish as long as you are standing on your property. I am pointing out that you don't have a "right" to cause a public disturbance on your property.

The constitution is not nearly as broad as you wish it to be.

Wow. Just wow. The fact that there are probably a sizable number of people in this country that share your attitude is absolutely chilling to me.

Read the sentence you just wrote. Public disturbance on your own property is an oxymoron. When standing on your own property, by definition you are not in public. If the Constitution doesn't apply to you on your own land and in your own home, where the fuck does it apply?

380 doubter4444  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 1:15:01pm

re: #377 ShanghaiEd

lol!
And, if you've done nothing wrong, you've nothing to fear...

381 ladycatnip  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 1:19:42pm

#379 drcordell

Read the sentence you just wrote. Public disturbance on your own property is an oxymoron. When standing on your own property, by definition you are not in public.

It's called disturbing the peace, and no you can't do it even on your own property.

382 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 1:25:10pm

re: #381 ladycatnip

#379 drcordell

It's called disturbing the peace, and no you can't do it even on your own property.

You make it sound as if I am justifying blaring Nazi speeches with a megaphone in the middle of your neighborhood is the behavior I am referring to. This entire conversation refers back to the arrest of professor Gates (and Pepin Tuma) for "disorderly conduct" when all he did is speak in a disagreeable way to a Police Officer. Speaking your opinion, however disagreeable it may be, is not "disorderly conduct." Especially when said speech is occurring on your own property.

383 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 1:58:18pm
384 BlueCanuck  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 2:10:15pm

re: #379 drcordell

You seem to forget that your voice doesn't magically stop at your property boundary. If you are making enough noise that you are disturbing your neighbours it is considered disturbance of the public peace. From the one picture of Mr. Gates in handcuffs, it didn't look like he was having a quiet conversation. That's why you get police called to loud parties or arguments on private property. BTW your buggy whip is still waiting and the expired equine is still there. You might get better results.

385 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 2:10:34pm

re: #383 buzzsawmonkey

Empty air and bombast over nothing? I guess that means you agree with:

The arrest of a Washington D.C. man for saying "I hate the Police"? Source

Or pepper-spraying and tasering a mentally-disabled deaf man? Your text to link...

Or this statement by (former) Boston Police Officer Justin Barrett:

Your defense of Gates while he is on the phone while being confronted [INDEED] with a police officer is assuming he has rights when considered a suspect. He is a suspect and always will be a suspect. His first priority of concern should be to get off the phone and comply with police, for if I was the officer he verbally assaulted like a banana-eating jungle monkey, I would have sprayed him in the face with OC deserving of his belligerent non-compliance.

You seem to believe that no matter what, a Police Officer is 100% justified in whatever action they take. That whether or not the State Law or Federal Constitution warrants arrest, the Police can arrest you for "disorderly conduct" simply because they don't like you. That basically, the Police are the law rather than enforcers of the law. Scary.

386 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 2:13:20pm
387 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 2:16:29pm

re: #384 BlueCanuck

You seem to forget that your voice doesn't magically stop at your property boundary. If you are making enough noise that you are disturbing your neighbours it is considered disturbance of the public peace. From the one picture of Mr. Gates in handcuffs, it didn't look like he was having a quiet conversation. That's why you get police called to loud parties or arguments on private property. BTW your buggy whip is still waiting and the expired equine is still there. You might get better results.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. In Gates' case, the law in Mass. specifically speaks to what can and cannot be considered "disorderly conduct." Here is the relevant statute:

A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he: (a) engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior... ‘Public’ means affecting or likely to affect persons in a place to which the public or a substantial group has access; among the places included are highways, transport facilities, schools, prisons, apartment houses, places of business or amusement, or any neighborhood.

The courts have ruled on several cases to clarify that statute. Specifically, that yelling in a loud manner at the Police is NOT disorderly conduct.

Defendant's conduct, namely, flailing his arms and shouting at police, victim of recent assault, or both, after being told to leave area by police, did not amount to “violent or tumultuous behavior” within scope of disorderly conduct statute, absent any claim that defendant's protestations constituted threat of violence, or any evidence that defendant's flailing arms were anything but physical manifestation of his agitation or that noise and commotion caused by defendant's behavior was extreme. Com. v. Lopiano (2004) 805 N.E.2d 522, 60 Mass.App.Ct. 723.

Here's another case as well:

Defendant who did not physically resist his arrest arising out of a domestic violence incident could not be convicted of disorderly conduct based solely on his loud and angry tirade, which included profanities, directed at police officers as he was being escorted to police cruiser, even if spectators gathered to watch defendant; defendant did not make any threats or engage in violence, and his speech did not constitute fighting words. Com. v. Mallahan (2008) 72 Mass.App.Ct. 1103, 889 N.E.2d 77, 2008 WL 2404550.

You can blather all you want about "disturbing the peace" but what matters is the law. And courts have repeatedly held that simply raising your voice at a Police Officer without threatening violence is not disorderly conduct.

388 Last Turnip  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 2:18:46pm

What I wonder about is how was it supposedly "proven" at the time of the arrest that Gates was in his own house. I mean, who knows whether he and his housemate had just broken up, or whether he had just sub-leased it for the summer, etc. It would seem to me this would be especially difficult to prove after one is observed breaking in.

389 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 2:19:35pm

re: #386 buzzsawmonkey

No, I merely observe that you are overwrought, prone to exaggeration, and frothing like a madman.

I'm frothing because of the complete and utter insanity of some of the posters on this thread. People who would seemingly defend the 2nd Amendment right of anyone in the nation to carry an assault rifle, but think that the 1st and Fourth Amendment "rights" don't apply when speaking with a Police Officer.

390 Charpete67  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 2:21:26pm

re: #388 Last Turnip

huh?

391 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 2:22:35pm
392 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 2:27:52pm
393 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 2:33:36pm
394 gregb  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 2:33:41pm

re: #382 drcordell

As tired and frustrated as I might have been flying home from China and finally within inches of my own home to find the door stuck and broken into my own house, I probably would have thanked the cop for protecting my private property and told him that I could handle if from there.

I got pulled over once in Newport Beach driving my unregistered, 1970, 500 horsepower Buick Special. Apparently it was a training exercise as I was then asked to step out of the car, mobbed and shouted out from 5 different directions from 5 different rookies who accused me of everything from hiding guns, running drugs, smuggling prostitutes (I was giving a ride home to a college foreign exchange student who didn't speak very good English), being in a gang (for driving a cool, classic car I guess), driving too fast, driving too slow, and not using my mirrors. I think one of them might have even said something about my mother. After the trainer decided I had enough, he stepped over and took me aside. He asked me if it was my car. I told him yes. He wrote me up a fix-it ticket. You would have thought they would have just profiled me as a typical college kid living at the beach.

I think the whole incident covered 1st, 2nd, 4th, and maybe even a couple more amendments.

395 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 2:36:25pm
396 Render  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 2:42:40pm

re: #372 drcordell

"Started?"

Have you been living in a box for your entire life? It's common knowledge that if you mouth off to a on-duty cop performing his duties he is probably going to make the rest of your day very unpleasant. It has always been like that, it has never changed, and its not likely to change anytime soon. You can find cases just like those going back for over one hundred years, in every single jurisdiction in the nation.

So, I'm going to ask you once again to run the little test I suggested to you previously.

Have your neighbor call the police and report a possible break-in at your home. When the police arrive, run your mouth to them just like Gates did.

Get back to us when you make bail.

Understand that Gates did get preferential treatment in that situation. Not that many people are professional race-mongers with contacts in the White House. You will not get the Gates treatment, betcha.

TRY
IT,
R

397 ShanghaiEd  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 2:45:46pm

re: #394 gregb

As tired and frustrated as I might have been flying home from China and finally within inches of my own home to find the door stuck and broken into my own house, I probably would have thanked the cop for protecting my private property and told him that I could handle if from there.

I got pulled over once in Newport Beach driving my unregistered, 1970, 500 horsepower Buick Special. Apparently it was a training exercise as I was then asked to step out of the car, mobbed and shouted out from 5 different directions from 5 different rookies who accused me of everything from hiding guns, running drugs, smuggling prostitutes (I was giving a ride home to a college foreign exchange student who didn't speak very good English), being in a gang (for driving a cool, classic car I guess), driving too fast, driving too slow, and not using my mirrors. I think one of them might have even said something about my mother. After the trainer decided I had enough, he stepped over and took me aside. He asked me if it was my car. I told him yes. He wrote me up a fix-it ticket. You would have thought they would have just profiled me as a typical college kid living at the beach.

I think the whole incident covered 1st, 2nd, 4th, and maybe even a couple more amendments.

Wow. So police used you for a training exercise, without your knowledge? I didn't know they could do that. I mean, I didn't think they were supposed to do that.

398 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 2:46:43pm

re: #388 Last Turnip

Welcome, Last Turnip. You now have your first upding.

399 yochanan  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 2:57:05pm

two afro American elitists and one Irish cop what could go wrong?

400 BIGDUKE 6  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 3:01:40pm

re: #70 tradewind

don't forget sassin' the sheriff !

401 dak  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 3:17:09pm

I'm surprized he's going. He should have said:

"Obama slandered me on national TV from Washington. He can apologize the same way."

402 placeholder  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 3:19:16pm

I think we're taking a bit of a literal view as far as "rights" are concerned. As well as the standards we're applying. If everyone behaved perfectly and within their rights, there would be no need for police.

There is also simply the idea of common sense...just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should, or doing so will have no consequences. While yelling into someone's face might not be illegal - it may certainly have repercussions...with police, bar patrons, or in sports stadiums. People tend to forget this for some reason. Certainly police should be held to a higher standard since they have significantly more power and carry a weapon - but expecting them to be superhuman is simply unrealistic. There are good cops, bad cops, short-tempered cops, cops going through a divorce, or dealing with personal issues, etc. etc.

This doesn't excuse bad behavior... but it should also not come as a complete surprise that these situations arise, and frankly are inevitable. There is a difference when it comes to simple sadists - who become cops so they can inflict pain on others.

We don't live in a utopia... acting like everyone should behave like we do is foolish. Life is accommodation...

403 ShanghaiEd  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 3:29:45pm

Here's an interesting item from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution:

Cops Suspended for Running Obama Check

Two DeKalb County Officers are being investigated for allegedly performing a background check on President Barack Obama.

Officers Ryan White and C.M. Route have been placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation, according to DeKalb County spokeswoman Sheila Edwards.

404 ShanghaiEd  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 3:32:18pm

re: #402 placeholder


We don't live in a utopia... acting like everyone should behave like we do is foolish. Life is accommodation...

And "accommodation" is exactly what's happening right now, isn't it?

Accommodation doesn't mean pretending something never happened.

405 placeholder  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 3:40:40pm

re: #404 ShanghaiEd

And "accommodation" is exactly what's happening right now, isn't it?

Accommodation doesn't mean pretending something never happened.

Right. The system worked in this case. Ultimately - the courts are the "check" for "balance" of police enforcement. The courts judgement in this case is that the arrest was not warranted.

406 ShanghaiEd  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 3:42:37pm

re: #405 placeholder

Right. The system worked in this case. Ultimately - the courts are the "check" for "balance" of police enforcement. The courts judgement in this case is that the arrest was not warranted.

But this case never went to court, did it? Did I miss that part?

407 drcordell  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 5:30:06pm

re: #396 Render

"Started?"

Have you been living in a box for your entire life? It's common knowledge that if you mouth off to a on-duty cop performing his duties he is probably going to make the rest of your day very unpleasant. It has always been like that, it has never changed, and its not likely to change anytime soon.

Don't you get it? That's the problem. People who did not commit crimes get arrested and thrown in jail for the night simply because Police abuse the power of their badge. And this happens, as you say, all the time without repercussion. You seem perfectly happy to let the police do whatever they want, with no regard for the law they are supposed to be upholding.

408 Outrider  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 6:01:36pm
...we’ve been a part of conflict resolution for over 180 years!”

Yup. I've witnessed all that "conflict resolution" beer brings to bar rooms and taverns. lol

409 expat canuck  Thu, Jul 30, 2009 9:32:12pm

Another vote here for Yuengling Black and Tan.


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