Still Think Nirthers Are a ‘Fringe’ Group? Think Again

Weird • Views: 7,279

Yes, the poll was commissioned by Daily Kos (because they want to exploit the Nirther craziness as much as possible, and I can’t blame them), but on the other hand Research 2000 appears to be a reputable polling company.

And the poll shows exactly why so many Republican politicians are pandering to the conspiracy theorists: 58 percent of GOP not sure/doubt Obama born in US.

Do you believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States of America or not?

Yes77
No11
Not sure12
 YesNoNot sure
Dem9343
Rep422830
Ind8389
Northeast9343
South472330
Midwest9064
West8776

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723 comments
1 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:57:29am

Stunning.

2 Tarkus289  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:57:39am

The "Fringe" is getting larger.

3 Shug  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:58:00am
South 47 23 30

In fairness, most of them don't know that Hawaii is actually part of the USA

4 itellu3times  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:58:22am

Does being intelligently designed by Satan count as birth?

5 BlueCanuck  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:58:44am

Ugh, it's going to be a long 7 and a half years...

6 Kragar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:58:47am

No Ron Paul?

7 Bloodnok  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:59:19am

We're gonna need a bigger handbasket.

8 Catttt  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:59:24am

I pity the fools. Don't know what else to say.

9 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:59:35am

so who has a plan?...like I said days ago, you purge the lunatics out of the GOP the will be no GOP...it consumed itself

10 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:59:36am

Four percent of Democrats? Seriously?

11 Dianna  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:59:44am

The Midwest appears to be the most rational section of the country, followed closely by the West.

12 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:59:53am

With all this fringe busting out all over the place I'm going to stock up on cheesey suade jackets from the 70's

13 cronus  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:00:26am

Not to stereotype...but given the geographic breakdown of the No/Don't Know group I would guess there's a strong correlation between birthers and those who think the earth is 6,000 years old.

14 WinterCat  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:00:55am

re: #8 Cattt

I pity the fools. Don't know what else to say.

I pity the rest of us. We are going to be stuck with Obama for the next 7.5 years thanks to these cranks and the other GOP idiots the abound.

15 Dianna  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:00:55am

Gah! My eyes are going to hell!

I lost the line for the Northwest. Apologies.

16 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:01:05am

re: #11 Dianna

The Midwest appears to be the most rational section of the country, followed closely by the West.

I can't argue that, here on the East Coast it's a parade of insanity.

17 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:01:16am

Paging dr...

18 dhg4  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:01:16am

Just out of curiosity what percentage of Democrats believed that 9/11 was an inside job or weren't sure. I don't know if that would reach 58 but I'd have to believe that it was somewhere near 50 especially given that the mainstream of the party welcomed the likes of Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan with open arms.

19 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:01:19am

May I apologize on behalf of the the South? I think that sample must have included a lot of people who get their news from church.

20 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:01:25am

Way to do us proud 'south'.
/

21 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:01:35am

The regional connection for the majority of 'nirthers' is very concerning.

22 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:01:35am
23 Kragar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:01:44am

re: #13 cronus

Not to stereotype...but given the geographic breakdown of the No/Don't Know group I would guess there's a strong correlation between birthers and those who think the earth is 6,000 years old.

I believe there very well could be a significant overlap in that regard.

24 turn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:01:56am

7% out west here - a relatively nirth free zone.

25 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:01:57am

re: #7 Bloodnok

We're gonna need a bigger handbasket.

You got that right. The 42% of thinking GOPers might not stick around if the rest of the party is going off the rails.

26 Dianna  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:02:25am

re: #22 buzzsawmonkey

Point! Definite point!

27 Shug  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:02:31am

I'd like to see the raw data.

28 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:02:49am

Thank Michelle Bachmann, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Lou Dobbs, and the ten republicans who were co-sponsering the nirther bill for this.

People who never knew the nirthers existed now 'aren't sure' if Obama was born in the US, and that's because the people I mentioned have either promoted it, pandered to it, or somehow acted like there's a 'legitimate question' here.

29 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:02:53am

should we hope that nirthers and creationists and white supremists are fiscally responsible?...these are the people who will defeat BO and the democrats...chew on that

30 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:03:14am

re: #17 Cannadian Club Akbar

Paging dr...

SHH!

31 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:03:18am

What's interesting is the numbers form the South. Granted, the NE is mainly Democrat, and the Midwest and West are split Republican and Democrat, so WTF is going on with Southern Republicans?

Do they not realise that Hawai'i is a state (since 1959), and has been US soil since 1898?

32 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:03:24am

re: #2 Tarkus289

The "Fringe" is getting larger.

Sometimes that's good. Probably not in this case.

33 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:03:48am

Maybe the west has such a low percentage is that we tend to know that Hawaii is a state (along with New Mexico and Alaska.)

Not claiming superiority, they're just closer.

34 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:03:50am

I also think the 30% of Southerners who are "not sure" may include a lot of people who think he was born in the US but don't want to upset their crazy friends.

35 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:03:53am

re: #21 Athos

The regional connection for the majority of 'nirthers' is very concerning.

I was thinking the same thing...

36 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:03:55am

re: #32 CyanSnowHawk

Sometimes that's good. Probably not in this case.

Actually, in that case, I would hope for less fringe.

37 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:04:17am

re: #17 Cannadian Club Akbar

Paging dr...

*WHACK*

38 turn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:04:29am

wow, 58% of the repubs are either unsure or think he isn't a citizen. I'm ashamed of that - wake the fuck up you nirthers! I feel the party splintering.

39 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:04:46am

A Nirther thread? Time to clean house, again? BBL - must get some popcorn.

40 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:04:46am

re: #27 Shug

I'd like to see the raw data.

Hot Air asks the same question but then says -

On the other hand, Research 2000 is a reputable pollster as far as I know and the way they posed the question wasn’t slanted.

They suggest that it would be handy if Rasmussen takes a run at this aspect of the issue. I agree.

41 BlueCanuck  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:05:12am

re: #39 Creeping Eruption

A Nirther thread? Time to clean house, again? BBL - must get some popcorn.

Pick up some refreshments while you are out.

42 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:05:25am

OK, we can take this one step further as a survey. I'm interested in the evangelical protestant Southerner numbers regarding who believes what about Obama's birth. That may be more telling than either the Republican numbers or the regional numbers.

43 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:05:29am

100% of the Joint Venture party believes Obama is a citizen. ;p

44 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:05:34am

I don't trust these DKos polls but the numbers are probably somewhat accurate. Maybe +/- 10% or so.

45 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:05:51am

On a related matter, I looked up at dkos this morning how many posts he has made in the last 6 months with the word "Afghanistan" in them.

4

I then looked up how many posts he did with the word "Iraq" in them for the 2 years ago. Lost count.

Hey Kos, if you are reading this - are you aware that civilian casualties are up in Afghanistan 25% in the last 6 months? Are you aware we just had the highest troop casualty month there? Are you aware that to coalition actually controls very little territory there - more thatn half the country is in Taliban hands according to the DoD.

So where is your moral rage? Are the soldiers who died in Afganistan lesser people than those who dies in Iraq? Are Afghan civilians less important?

Or are they just non-usable as pawns in your "progressive" game of morality-chess?

Come on - you can say it again - F**k Em.

46 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:05:59am

re: #41 BlueCanuck

Pick up some refreshments while you are out.

Whats your poison?

47 Bloodnok  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:05:59am

re: #22 buzzsawmonkey

On the other hand, a similar percentage of the Democrats seem to believe that Obamacare can be enacted without increasing the deficit or the national debt, and that it can be paid for by soaking the rich.

Which delusion is going to inflict more serious, permanent, physical damage on the US economy?

So nirthers are just peachy if they're the lesser of two evils? No. Irrational is irrational. I'll take neither, thanks.

48 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:06:10am

re: #38 turn

wow, 58% of the repubs are either unsure or think he isn't a citizen. I'm ashamed of that - wake the fuck up you nirthers! I feel the party splintering.

Splintering? I don't think so...but the GOP needs to clean house as well otherwise it will be marginalized into ineffectiveness.

49 MJ  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:06:16am

Birthers, the Few, the Proud, Riling Capitol Hill

[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]

50 John Neverbend  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:07:03am

re: #19 doppelganglander

May I apologize on behalf of the the South? I think that sample must have included a lot of people who get their news from church.

Vos absolvo.

51 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:07:03am

re: #31 Honorary Yooper

What's interesting is the numbers form the South. Granted, the NE is mainly Democrat, and the Midwest and West are split Republican and Democrat, so WTF is going on with Southern Republicans?

Do they not realise that Hawai'i is a state (since 1959), and has been US soil since 1898?

I'm not sure. The South is IIRC the one geographic stronghold the GOP still maintains a demographic lock on. That is, it's the one area where they've maintained numbers and not lost.

I think the problem may be that the GOP is focussing on that demographic base, rather than doing outreach. Which doesn't bode well for party direction.

52 Ben Hur  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:07:05am

Wow. 58%.

I still don't understand why these freaks are getting 10000000% the attention than Troofers did or do though.

53 BlueCanuck  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:07:10am

re: #46 Creeping Eruption

Whats your poison?

Toss up at the moment. I will go on my own run shortly. :)

54 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:07:22am

re: #42 Honorary Yooper

OK, we can take this one step further as a survey. I'm interested in the evangelical protestant Southerner numbers regarding who believes what about Obama's birth. That may be more telling than either the Republican numbers or the regional numbers.

Undoubtedly. It's almost inevitable that a sample of Southern Republicans is going to include a lot of evangelicals and fundamentalists. Religion is by definition irrational, and when you get your politics from your religion, or vice versa, you are going to get some pretty crazy opinions.

55 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:07:27am

I got my fresh 18 pack. Bring it on, nirthers...

56 Shug  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:07:40am

Still can't find their methods and raw data

57 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:07:42am

I'm considering the Bow Owt Party...maybe hit the beach for a cycle or two

58 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:07:51am

re: #52 Ben Hur

Wow. 58%.

I still don't understand why these freaks are getting 10000000% the attention than Troofers did or do though.

MFM.

59 turn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:07:55am

re: #45 karmic_inquisitor

psst karmic, Bush is no longer president and we have been anointed with the one.

60 Dianna  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:08:05am

re: #52 Ben Hur

Wow. 58%.

I still don't understand why these freaks are getting 10000000% the attention than Troofers did or do though.

The Troofers got waaay to much attention - and too much of it serious.

61 kpom  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:08:06am

Well, he is the AntiChrist, after all...

62 avanti  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:08:20am

re: #40 Athos

They suggest that it would be handy if Rasmussen takes a run at this aspect of the issue. I agree.

Scott Rasmussen is a Evangelical Christian and if his poll is even close it will be more acceptable to the base.

63 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:08:40am

re: #48 Athos

Splintering? I don't think so...but the GOP needs to clean house as well otherwise it will be marginalized into ineffectiveness.

clean house?...these people are the house

64 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:08:41am

re: #56 Shug

Still can't find their methods and raw data

No one told me I'd need math.

65 Charpete67  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:08:47am

re: #61 kpom

Well, he is the AntiChrist, after all...

...is Hades a state?.../

66 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:08:49am
67 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:08:57am

I would like to know how many of the people responding didn't even know there were questions about Obama's birth or citizenship until they got the poll question.

This has been news in blogs, but I haven't seen this in newspapers or on TV. Did the pollsters only poll people who follow blogs?

68 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:09:10am

re: #54 doppelganglander

Undoubtedly. It's almost inevitable that a sample of Southern Republicans is going to include a lot of evangelicals and fundamentalists. Religion is by definition irrational, and when you get your politics from your religion, or vice versa, you are going to get some pretty crazy opinions.

But...but... the 'word' is spot on, he IS the anti-christ!

//

69 Ben Hur  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:09:10am

re: #60 Dianna

The Troofers got waaay to much attention - and too much of it serious.

They got attention on the blogs, but not blanket coverage and outrage like this.

70 MJ  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:09:21am

Legitimate Question:

"Can you imagine William F. Buckley countenancing the know-nothing evasion of this current crop of conservatives?"

Read more: [Link: www.politico.com...]

71 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:09:44am

re: #13 cronus

Not to stereotype...but given the geographic breakdown of the No/Don't Know group I would guess there's a strong correlation between birthers and those who think the earth is 6,000 years old.

I was wondering the same thing. I would guess without a regional breakdown being involved, we would see a strong correlation between YEC and nirtherism. If one is willing to disbelieve empirical evidence on one matter, it is likely they will do so on other matters as well.

72 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:09:53am

"I'll talk to yo Bama outside!"

73 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:10:05am

re: #66 buzzsawmonkey

You are welcome to your convenient absolutism of the moment--or, if you prefer, moral equivalence. Me, I prefer to assess the relative actual harm each of these delusions threaten.

I can see this harming the opposition if we're all tarred with this nuttiness.

74 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:10:15am

re: #70 MJ

Legitimate Question:

"Can you imagine William F. Buckley countenancing the know-nothing evasion of this current crop of conservatives?"

Read more: [Link: www.politico.com...]

Of course not. He'd do to them what he did to the John Birch Society in 1960.

75 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:10:38am

re: #66 buzzsawmonkey

You are welcome to your convenient absolutism of the moment--or, if you prefer, moral equivalence. Me, I prefer to assess the relative actual harm each of these delusions threaten.

Threaten? I prefer to look at the relative harm each is cousin.

76 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:10:43am

"Fringe"? It's more the like the fabric is unraveling.

/yikes!

77 Racer X  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:10:45am

Holee farging carp.

I log in to see Armageddon is upon us. Who are these whackjobs, and why were they let out of their care facility?

78 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:10:50am

Obama Derangement Syndrome seems to be alive and well with too many people. Following the lunacy of the left by instituting lunacy in the right will not win elections.

Oppose the guy based on his policies, ineffective leadership, and living in a constant campaign mode. But to oppose the guy for these other reasons only diminishes and marginalizes one's ability to be influential, informative, and effective.

79 Kragar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:11:06am

I love dealing with non-techs on tech calls.

"We've got a blinking light! We're connected!"
"Guys, thats the hard drive."

80 WinterCat  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:11:07am

re: #22 buzzsawmonkey

On the other hand, a similar percentage of the Democrats seem to believe that Obamacare can be enacted without increasing the deficit or the national debt, and that it can be paid for by soaking the rich.

Which delusion is going to inflict more serious, permanent, physical damage on the US economy?

Oh, you helped me to get some perspective on this. You are right. Obamacare will have a lasting impact that outweighs the conspiracy theorists.

But I really long to be able to look to a party that holds the basic beliefs that I do, minus the nutjobs. Fiscal conservatism, small government, strong work ethic, sense of fair play, acceptance of people on the basis of their character and not the color of their skin, reasonable tolerance for others, and letting parents parent -- is that too much to ask for? That party just doesn't exist and I frequently feel I am a grain of sand in a political wasteland.

81 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:11:11am

re: #31 Honorary Yooper

What's interesting is the numbers form the South. Granted, the NE is mainly Democrat, and the Midwest and West are split Republican and Democrat, so WTF is going on with Southern Republicans?

Do they not realise that Hawai'i is a state (since 1959), and has been US soil since 1898?

The poll has "Rep" and "Dem",and then it appears to be to just be areas of the country, no political party information at all. So - your question - WTF is going on with Southern REPUBLICANS - is that an accurate question? Shouldn't it be WTF is going on in the South?

82 Van Helsing  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:11:19am

re: #45 karmic_inquisitor

Afghanistan is harder to spell than Iraq.

83 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:11:40am

re: #67 reine.de.tout

Did the pollsters only poll people who follow blogs?


I think they did random phone polling. These polls are easy to manipulate, they carefully formulate the questions get get desired results. However, I don't find these results completely implausible.

84 turn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:11:41am

re: #48 Athos

Splintering? I don't think so...but the GOP needs to clean house as well otherwise it will be marginalized into ineffectiveness.

The whacked out far right is getting whackier. Not sure how much longer the sane people will take it. Ok maybe not splinter, at the very least if they keep this up we're sure to lose effectiveness.

85 mfarmer1  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:11:59am

And I thought the left was nutty to continue on and on with the George Bush flying to France on a CIA spy plane October Surprise conspiracy nonsense.

And that took hold and persisted way before the Internet as we know it today. That's really scary.

86 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:12:06am

re: #66 buzzsawmonkey

You are welcome to your convenient absolutism of the moment--or, if you prefer, moral equivalence. Me, I prefer to assess the relative actual harm each of these delusions threaten.

I think the problem is this nirther delusion is going to harm the electability of people who can stop the democratic agenda.

87 ssn697  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:12:09am

It is sad to watch this happening. Politicians have always been sleazy, but to watch both sides pander at the highest levels/lowest common denominator more that any time I can recall is just disheartening.

88 Dianna  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:12:19am

re: #69 Ben Hur

They got attention on the blogs, but not blanket coverage and outrage like this.

Have we gotten a documentary about the Nirthers, yet? Has Scientific American weighed in on this?

89 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:12:22am

re: #73 MandyManners

You beat me to it.

90 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:12:30am

re: #70 MJ

Legitimate Question:

"Can you imagine William F. Buckley countenancing the know-nothing evasion of this current crop of conservatives?"

Read more: [Link: www.politico.com...]

Buckley and Goldwater would've given them a choice between kicking their asses or giving them bubblegum, and they'd be all out of bubblegum.

91 Catttt  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:12:36am

Wait. I just realized Birmingham - England? Alabama? Is the AntiMetroplex.

92 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:12:37am

re: #73 MandyManners

I can see this harming the opposition if we're all tarred with this nuttiness.

Birds of a feather?/

93 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:13:10am

re: #70 MJ

Legitimate Question:

"Can you imagine William F. Buckley countenancing the know-nothing evasion of this current crop of conservatives?"

Read more: [Link: www.politico.com...]

There is fundamentally no difference between his efforts to wipe the impact of the Birchers from the conservative effort 40 years ago and the need that we have today to wipe the impact of the nirthers and other conspiracy wonks from the conservative movement. We just need to match the will that Mr. Buckley had to do this.

94 Racer X  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:13:40am

"Can't I just eat my souls?"

95 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:13:44am

re: #83 Killgore Trout

I think they did random phone polling. These polls are easy to manipulate, they carefully formulate the questions get get desired results. However, I don't find these results completely implausible.

I'm not necessarily saying the results are implausible.
I'm just wondering how many of those polled had not heard of the question until contacted by the pollster.

96 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:13:46am

Can I say 'UGH'? Maybe an 'UGH!' cubed would be sufficient.

97 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:14:00am

re: #67 reine.de.tout

I would like to know how many of the people responding didn't even know there were questions about Obama's birth or citizenship until they got the poll question.

This has been news in blogs, but I haven't seen this in newspapers or on TV. Did the pollsters only poll people who follow blogs?

I have seen a couple of segments on Fox News on this. They showed the image of his COLB, but didn't seem to make any judgements either way.

98 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:14:27am

re: #81 reine.de.tout

The poll has "Rep" and "Dem",and then it appears to be to just be areas of the country, no political party information at all. So - your question - WTF is going on with Southern REPUBLICANS - is that an accurate question? Shouldn't it be WTF is going on in the South?

Good question, but I inferred from what we know about the modern politics of the South, and what was given in the survey.

99 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:14:37am

re: #83 Killgore Trout

I think they did random phone polling. These polls are easy to manipulate, they carefully formulate the questions get get desired results. However, I don't find these results completely implausible.

True -- but the poll question here was:

Do you believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States of America or not?

That seems pretty straightforward.

100 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:14:43am

re: #86 Sharmuta

I think the problem is this nirther delusion is going to harm the electability of people who can stop the democratic agenda.

but that's just a good guess...with respect...anyway if the numbers keep growing it won't make any difference imo...tradition conservatism is dying I'm afraid

101 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:14:53am

re: #67 reine.de.tout

I would like to know how many of the people responding didn't even know there were questions about Obama's birth or citizenship until they got the poll question.

This has been news in blogs, but I haven't seen this in newspapers or on TV. Did the pollsters only poll people who follow blogs?

Reine, unfortunately nirtherism has been getting attention on TV and in the news by people who treat it as if it were a legitimate question. Lou Dobbs, Michelle Bachmann, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and the ten republicans who were co-sponsering a nirther bill are just some of the ones I know about.

Chris Matthews interviewed one of those GOP nirthers and utterly destroyed him--Charles had a post about it. Jon Stewart did a segment on them as well.

102 WinterCat  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:15:09am

re: #95 reine.de.tout

I'm not necessarily saying the results are implausible.
I'm just wondering how many of those polled had not heard of the question until contacted by the pollster.

Were these likely voters? I didn't see any info about that in the poll article.

103 midwestgak  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:15:11am

OT. I'm late to the threads so this may already may have been posted.

Crhis Dodd has prostate cancer

Electing surgery over drug treatment. He also plugged the need for health care reform.

104 Bloodnok  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:15:16am

re: #66 buzzsawmonkey

You are welcome to your convenient absolutism of the moment--or, if you prefer, moral equivalence. Me, I prefer to assess the relative actual harm each of these delusions threaten.

So because Obamacare is the greater threat...what? (please fill in this blank).

105 Charpete67  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:15:17am

re: #95 reine.de.tout

I'm not necessarily saying the results are implausible.
I'm just wondering how many of those polled had not heard of the question until contacted by the pollster.

I thought that too, except that the Dem's seem to have heard about it.

106 MTF  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:15:23am

This is just Republicans so angry they won't even give the guy credit for being an American. It doesn't surprise me in the least. The unbroken focus on this stupid "question" is as odd as the belief itself.

107 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:15:24am

re: #63 albusteve

clean house?...these people are the house

I really hope that you are wrong with that. If these issues become 'mainsteam' GOP positions, then the GOP will have left me behind in their rush to the gutter.

108 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:15:37am

re: #67 reine.de.tout

I would like to know how many of the people responding didn't even know there were questions about Obama's birth or citizenship until they got the poll question.

This has been news in blogs, but I haven't seen this in newspapers or on TV. Did the pollsters only poll people who follow blogs?

Mainstream media has been giving the issue a lot of coverage, all week.

109 Ben Hur  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:15:41am

re: #88 Dianna

Have we gotten a documentary about the Nirthers, yet? Has Scientific American weighed in on this?

You're right.

But I still feel that these guys are getting more serious coverage by a left leaning MSM.

The MSM didn't use Troofers to hit the Dems, or put an end to it decisively.

THat's my feeling.

And I think Troofers have done infinitely more damage in the last 8 years than Nirthers.

Remember, all perspectives are legitimate when questioning the right...

110 turn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:15:49am

re: #101 iceweasel

Was that G. Gordon Liddy ice?

111 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:15:51am

re: #81 reine.de.tout

The poll has "Rep" and "Dem",and then it appears to be to just be areas of the country, no political party information at all. So - your question - WTF is going on with Southern REPUBLICANS - is that an accurate question? Shouldn't it be WTF is going on in the South?

That's a really good point I hadn't even thought of. What was the party breakdown of the Southerners polled? And what was the racial breakdown? White Southerners are overwhelmingly Republican, but black Southerners are overwhelmingly Democrats. Sample could make a big difference.

112 cronus  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:15:55am

MSM would love nothing more than to continue covering the birthers. Otherwise they have to devote more time to acknowledging the cratering Obama agenda.

113 ssn697  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:16:07am

re: #90 Honorary Yooper

Buckley and Goldwater would've given them a choice between kicking their asses or giving them bubblegum, and they'd be all out of bubblegum.

Newt seems to be he closest thing to an intellectual conservative these days and even he stoops down to pander to the bottom dwellers. When did the Republican party become the party that hates anything or anyone that might be learned? It really is a sad state of affairs. "Smart people need not apply" seems to be the new calling card.

Meanwhile, the disjointed Democrats get a free pass. I have to think happy thoughts, or this weekend is ruined.

114 Racer X  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:16:23am

re: #100 albusteve

but that's just a good guess...with respect...anyway if the numbers keep growing it won't make any difference imo...tradition conservatism is dying I'm afraid

Conservatism will never die. It is being hijacked by a bunch of assholes lately.

115 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:16:51am

re: #79 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I love dealing with non-techs on tech calls.

"We've got a blinking light! We're connected!"
"Guys, thats the hard drive."

"Why did my coffee cup holder suddenly retract into the big box?"

116 turn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:16:53am

re: #112 cronus

MSM would love nothing more than to continue covering the birthers. Otherwise they have to devote more time to acknowledging the cratering Obama agenda.

ding!

117 Nene1  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:17:14am

Obama must be legit ... The Clinton attack machine would have trawled the deepest dumpsters for any juicy info for use against him when Hillary was still in contention , and even they drew a blank.

118 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:17:19am

re: #99 Charles

Very straightforward. As straightforward as one can get, and there are only two good answers (yes, no), and one chickenshit one (I don't know).

Scary as it may be, the results may very well be rather accurate. Now, more polling should be done to further break this down.

119 Charpete67  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:17:44am

re: #114 Racer X

Conservatism will never die. It is being hijacked by a bunch of assholes lately.

conservatism is reborn every April 15th and September 11th

120 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:17:45am

G.O.P. R.I.P.

121 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:18:22am

re: #120 Sharmuta

G.O.P. R.I.P.


That sounds like snack food I take camping./

122 The Curmudgeon  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:18:24am

In this, as in so many other vital matters, I alone know the truth. Obama is, in truth, the love child of Nikita Khrushchev.

123 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:18:25am

re: #97 eschew_obfuscation

I have seen a couple of segments on Fox News on this. They showed the image of his COLB, but didn't seem to make any judgements either way.

Fox News is part of the problem too. If they're going to talk about nirtherism it really should be only to point out how insane it is. Not making a judgement about it, or covering it as though there might be any doubt, is why those numbers of people who now "don't know" if he's a citizen are so high.

124 avanti  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:18:35am

Someone has to take over leadership of the GOP and speak out against the nuts, even by risking the wrath of Rush, Beck and the rest that are stoking the wrong fire.

125 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:18:45am

re: #120 Sharmuta

G.O.P. R.I.P.

heh..yep
now what?...I'll follow you

126 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:18:50am

Anytime Obama gets in trouble you can expect two things: a race controversy to rise, and nirtherism.

127 mrkwong  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:19:06am

I can understand why someone who knows no more than what the media tells them would believe it.

Firstly, the press has gone out of its way to avoid serious investigation of anything about Obama prior to his election to the Senate.

Secondly, for a lot of people they look at Obama and think "He's not behaving like an American" - not because he's a President Of Color but because he's basically of the Pelosi-Waxman political stripe and that's regarded as a coastal urban disease.

So, putting two plus two together they think "He doesn't act like us, and they're hiding his background, maybe he IS a furriner."

No, he isn't, he's just been raised in a leftist nutball milieu and too much of it rubbed off. I know lots of native-born Americans whose brains are even more addled.

128 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:19:17am

Birchers to birthers: a GOP quandary

Confronted by loony conspiracy theories about the legitimacy of the president’s citizenship, too many conservatives are either silent or stammering, hemming or hawing when asked if our first black president is an illegal alien. The situation is sad and does not bode well for the future of the GOP and the conservative movement. Such as it is.
...
Old-guard conservatives would be jettisoning these flim-flam “birther” panderers, just as they jettisoned the Birchers. Buckley and his colleagues had serious policy goals: They sought to defeat communism, not contain it. They sought to roll back the New Deal’s regulations in favor of the free market. They had a serious agenda to pursue. They had no time to dabble with the candy-man, Trilateral Commission conspiracies of the Birchers.

And they found their champions in Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan. Today, there are no comparable figures on the conservative right. There are no intellectual dynamos like Buckley, no political icons like Goldwater or Reagan.

In short, the problem faced by today’s conservatives is that there is no one of sufficient stature, and no group of serious political operatives, to tell the “birthers” to cut it out — to disown them as they deserve to be disowned. It’s a sad state of affairs. The entire political process suffers as a result.

129 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:19:37am

re: #123 iceweasel

Fox News is part of the problem too. If they're going to talk about nirtherism it really should be only to point out how insane it is. Not making a judgement about it, or covering it as though there might be any doubt, is why those numbers of people who now "don't know" if he's a citizen are so high.

I've said for years that fox news is a moby network.

They are a parody of themselves.

130 ssn697  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:19:38am

re: #112 cronus

MSM would love nothing more than to continue covering the birthers. Otherwise they have to devote more time to acknowledging the cratering Obama agenda.

Truer words. This whole thing could end swiftly however. Republican leaders need to come out unified, saying that there is no question about Obama's birth origins. They may piss off some of the birther base for a while, but what are they going to do? Switch to the Democratic party? Please...

The best thing the Republicans could do right now is a hearty slap down of this birther nonsense, followed by a pointed campaign concerning jobless and economy.

131 opnion  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:19:52am

re: #101 iceweasel

To be Fair Lou Dobbs debunked the Birthers. He was discussing it because it is an issue.

132 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:19:55am

re: #124 avanti

Someone has to take over leadership of the GOP and speak out against the nuts, even by risking the wrath of Rush, Beck and the rest that are stoking the wrong fire.

thanks for that Capt Obvious...never thought of that

133 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:20:37am

re: #101 iceweasel

Reine, unfortunately nirtherism has been getting attention on TV and in the news by people who treat it as if it were a legitimate question. Lou Dobbs, Michelle Bachmann, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and the ten republicans who were co-sponsering a nirther bill are just some of the ones I know about.

Chris Matthews interviewed one of those GOP nirthers and utterly destroyed him--Charles had a post about it. Jon Stewart did a segment on them as well.

I guess I should turn on my TV, then, every now and then.
nah.

134 SixDegrees  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:21:00am

re: #99 Charles

That seems pretty straightforward.

Maybe. It's widely known, though, that he was born in Hawaii. Are you sure people know it's part of the United States?

Like others, I question this report, simply because it doesn't even come close to matching reality as I know it. I don't know a single person who holds that 0 isn't a citizen - not one. Yet the poll indicates that one in five people either don't believe it or aren't sure?

It just seems like I would have bumped into someone by now.

135 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:21:07am

re: #108 Charles

Mainstream media has been giving the issue a lot of coverage, all week.

Explains how I missed it. I stopped watching the networks (including the cable ones) over their incessant lurching and overkill from one subject to another. I get better information from the local news and from here.

136 wahabicorridor  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:21:08am

re: #67 reine.de.tout

This has been news in blogs, but I haven't seen this in newspapers or on TV.

Lou Dobbs/CNN has been all over it.

137 turn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:21:08am

re: #131 opnion

To be Fair Lou Dobbs debunked the Birthers. He was discussing it because it is an issue.

Yeah but he is still insisting that o produce the original so he keeps fanning the flames on the "controversy"

138 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:21:35am

re: #124 avanti

Agreed. At this point the base has gone so nutty that it would probably be political suicide. I suspect the future leaders of the GOP are laying low for now.

139 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:21:50am

Well now we know the Democrat's media plan for August - inflate and then discredit nirthirism. When Congress reconvenes, the GOP will look like the idiots that they are and will have no standing from which to cogently argue against health care.

Example of what you will hear from the floor of the Senate:

"While the good Senator makes what seem to be compelling points on the true costs of the President's Health Care package, this is the same Senator who told us last month that the President wasn't born in the US. [chuckles from Dem side, red faces on GOP side]"

Way to think out that strategery, GOP!

140 Shug  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:21:53am

I am a skeptic of these results.
I do not believe birthers make up a majority of republicans or even a large chunk and even those who answer " I don't know" I beleive it's because they are just completely oblivious to current events
anybody calls with anything negative about Obama, and the uninformed person on the phone is gonna answer in the affirmative


ask Democrats : do you believe Bush knew about 9/11?
ask Blacks, do you believe HIV was created by the Government to wipe out black people?
You might get a lot of Yes answers.


I can take the downdings, but I am going on record here and now to state my absolute belief that the vast majority of Americans who self declare themselves conservative or republican are not kooks, and are not birthers and that the real danger to all of us isn't a small minority of whackos who are getting some press , but rather the current POTUS, the current speaker and the current Senate minority leader, who last time I checked are running this country into the ground.

and really, again , downding away but Who gives a rip if somebody doesn't believe where Obama was born? Their ignorance is not harming the country, is it?

I'm much more afraid of people who are disarming America, apologizing all over the world, printing trillions of dollars, proposing free healthcare for illegal aliens, ramming through billion and trillions in legislation without even reading it, sending millions and millions to ACORN

141 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:22:10am

Right now we should be doing a short sack dance before doing what we can to defeat the worst parts of the health care bill and cap and trade when congress returns.
Obama's mandate is stuck on the reef, and we need to make sure it doesn't come off.

142 ~Fianna  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:22:12am

re: #51 iceweasel

I'm not sure. The South is IIRC the one geographic stronghold the GOP still maintains a demographic lock on. That is, it's the one area where they've maintained numbers and not lost.

I think the problem may be that the GOP is focussing on that demographic base, rather than doing outreach. Which doesn't bode well for party direction.

It's also going to hurt in National elections. Those numbers show (among other things) a REALLY large geographic divide between the South and the rest of the country. As others have pointed out, there's probably overlap with YEC belief, as well... unless the RNC modifies the way the national primary timeline is set up, it's going to be hard for any candidate who isn't Huckabee to do well, which is going to drive more moderates to the Dems.

143 Kragar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:22:26am

re: #115 Athos

"Why did my coffee cup holder suddenly retract into the big box?"

"Why do I have to hit the down arrow key to make the text move up?"

144 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:22:42am

re: #101 iceweasel

Reine, unfortunately nirtherism has been getting attention on TV and in the news by people who treat it as if it were a legitimate question. Lou Dobbs, Michelle Bachmann, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and the ten republicans who were co-sponsering a nirther bill are just some of the ones I know about.

Chris Matthews interviewed one of those GOP nirthers and utterly destroyed him--Charles had a post about it. Jon Stewart did a segment on them as well.

Economy is tanking and jobs are scarce so what does the brilliant G.O.P. do...ready...wait for it... cry about a Nirth Certifikat! Hooray! Job well done guys... job well done...
///

145 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:22:55am

re: #123 iceweasel

Fox News is part of the problem too. If they're going to talk about nirtherism it really should be only to point out how insane it is. Not making a judgement about it, or covering it as though there might be any doubt, is why those numbers of people who now "don't know" if he's a citizen are so high.

Hi Ice!

I understand your point, but I would prefer that ALL news organizations present facts and leave the judgements to us. I don't really like all of the opining that occurs on "news" programs on either side of the political spectrum.

And I realize that in short news programs, some 'facts' will be left out and someone has to choose which ones get in, but we're way beyond that problem making a difference.

146 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:22:56am

re: #134 SixDegrees

Maybe. It's widely known, though, that he was born in Hawaii. Are you sure people know it's part of the United States?

Like others, I question this report, simply because it doesn't even come close to matching reality as I know it. I don't know a single person who holds that 0 isn't a citizen - not one. Yet the poll indicates that one in five people either don't believe it or aren't sure?

It just seems like I would have bumped into someone by now.

Well, notice in the regional breakdown -- the Nirthers are strongly concentrated in the South. If you don't live in the South it's a lot less likely that you'd encounter them.

147 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:23:05am

re: #140 Shug

The ACORN conspiracies are just as bad.

148 WinterCat  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:23:24am

re: #138 Killgore Trout

Agreed. At this point the base has gone so nutty that it would probably be political suicide. I suspect the future leaders of the GOP are laying low for now.

On the other hand, what kind of "leaders" would they be if their strategy is to lay low?

149 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:23:29am

re: #142 ~Fianna

It's also going to hurt in National elections. Those numbers show (among other things) a REALLY large geographic divide between the South and the rest of the country. As others have pointed out, there's probably overlap with YEC belief, as well... unless the RNC modifies the way the national primary timeline is set up, it's going to be hard for any candidate who isn't Huckabee to do well, which is going to drive more moderates to the Dems.

The R's are meeting in San Diego to talk over the primarys.

150 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:23:33am

re: #138 Killgore Trout

Agreed. At this point the base has gone so nutty that it would probably be political suicide. I suspect the future leaders of the GOP are laying low for now.

they are all creationists, or womanizers, or worse Eagles fans

151 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:23:54am

So, I have an Off Topic here since we've passed 100 posts.

This is post #2000 for me on this board.

I wanted to say that I enjoy coming here on a relatively regular basis for good conversation and good company. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree, but it's always lively dialogue. Just wanted to say thanks for putting up with my demented humor and off the wall remarks, and I look forward to the next 2000 posts. And, of course, thank you Charles for building and nuturing this excellent site of yours.

(suck up mode off)

That's it. Back to topic.

152 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:24:12am
153 opnion  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:24:19am

re: #137 turn

Yeah but he is still insisting that o produce the original so he keeps fanning the flames on the "controversy"

That's true.

154 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:24:19am

re: #148 WinterCat

On the other hand, what kind of "leaders" would they be if their strategy is to lay low?

The kind that "lead" from the back, i.e., no leaders at all.

155 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:24:23am

re: #140 Shug

ask Democrats : do you believe Bush knew about 9/11?
ask Blacks, do you believe HIV was created by the Government to wipe out black people?
You might get a lot of Yes answers.

What's sad is that there are a lot of nuts out there willing to believe in a conspiracy of some kind. This includes troofers, nirthers, JFK, CIA-HIV, Pearl Harbor, etc, etc.

156 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:24:25am

re: #124 avanti

Someone has to take over leadership of the GOP and speak out against the nuts, even by risking the wrath of Rush, Beck and the rest that are stoking the wrong fire.

Agreed - and they have to be willing to do so even if they have to confront an element of the "base" that is locked into the nirther / 6,000 year old earth positions. Unfortunately, no one has the will to be willing to confront that part of the "base" in the manner that Buckley went after the Birchers.

157 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:24:42am

re: #110 turn

Was that G. Gordon Liddy ice?

Hey turn-- no, it was even worse. It was one of the GOP congressmen who was co-sponsering the bill. It took Matthews seven minutes to get the guy to admit that he personally believed Obama was a citizen.

Charles posted the video. It's worth watching, believe me. Rep. Campbell squirms and squirms and visibly winces at the end when Chris Matthews says "Ok, folks in Campbell's district-- he believes Obama is a citizen".

I hate Matthews but this was awesome.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

158 calcajun  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:24:46am

Time to start drinking?

159 VioletTiger  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:25:21am

I wish they would just quit this already. It is the poster child for loser issues.

160 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:25:23am

re: #146 Charles

Well, notice in the regional breakdown -- the Nirthers are strongly concentrated in the South. If you don't live in the South it's a lot less likely that you'd encounter them.

My brother ran into a girl he didn't know and she was a nirther. He asked me what a nirther was. He didn't know.

161 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:25:36am

re: #143 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Why do I have to hit the down arrow key to make the text move up?"

"Where's the any key?"

162 Charpete67  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:25:48am

re: #134 SixDegrees

Maybe. It's widely known, though, that he was born in Hawaii. Are you sure people know it's part of the United States?

Like others, I question this report, simply because it doesn't even come close to matching reality as I know it. I don't know a single person who holds that 0 isn't a citizen - not one. Yet the poll indicates that one in five people either don't believe it or aren't sure?

It just seems like I would have bumped into someone by now.

me too...either people don't know much about it or they think it's looney...I have yet to meet someone who believes he not US born.

163 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:26:12am

re: #142 ~Fianna

It's also going to hurt in National elections. Those numbers show (among other things) a REALLY large geographic divide between the South and the rest of the country. As others have pointed out, there's probably overlap with YEC belief, as well... unless the RNC modifies the way the national primary timeline is set up, it's going to be hard for any candidate who isn't Huckabee to do well, which is going to drive more moderates to the Dems.

The first test is mid-term elections. At this point, I fear the gop strategy is to hope the situation is bad enough people vote for us just for change!. I hope some sane people in the party step up soon.

164 Nene1  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:26:18am

A fifth of kids leaving High School can't even identify the USA
on an atlas of the Earth.
Is it surprising if a similarly disturbing number didn't even know that Hawaii was one of those States ?

165 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:26:28am

re: #158 calcajun

Time to start drinking?

Is it ever time to stop?

166 turn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:26:30am

re: #157 iceweasel

I gave you an upding for hating Chrissy. ha. Oh I did see that interview ... the Liddy one blew me away because I had always thought of him as a very rational person.

167 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:26:34am

re: #148 WinterCat

On the other hand, what kind of "leaders" would they be if their strategy is to lay low?


Because it might be the smart move. Nobody involved in this current nonsense is going to be a viable leader in 8 -10 years. Speaking out now would sink their political career because the base isn't interested in real world policies. They need these conspiracy theories for now. Right wing blogs and Fox news feed a constant supply of them and there's not much that can be done to counter it until there are enough people willing to listen to reality. We aren't even close yet.

168 SixDegrees  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:26:36am

re: #146 Charles

Well, notice in the regional breakdown -- the Nirthers are strongly concentrated in the South. If you don't live in the South it's a lot less likely that you'd encounter them.

Still, one in five overall is a significant chunk of the population. And that's taking all regions into account. Even if it dropped to one in ten or twenty, I think I'd have bumped into at least a few.

I'd like to see a couple more polls conducted independently, to see if this result can be replicated.

169 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:26:55am

It's a Nirthquake. We'll get the big one and some aftershocks, rumblings here and there, some settling.
Michael Steele took a step the other day. I'm still waiting to see what's going to happen to him.
I e-mailed him my support, it was a good step he took.
I still believe the Sane people will win in the end, but if I'm wrong, welll, I'm wrong.
It's too early to tell for me.
We'll see.

170 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:26:57am

re: #145 eschew_obfuscation

Hi Ice!

I understand your point, but I would prefer that ALL news organizations present facts and leave the judgements to us. I don't really like all of the opining that occurs on "news" programs on either side of the political spectrum.

And I realize that in short news programs, some 'facts' will be left out and someone has to choose which ones get in, but we're way beyond that problem making a difference.

Oh, I agree with you, but part of the reason the country and our discourse is in deep trouble is because of the media pretending that there are two sides to every story. There aren't two sides to every fact-- and the nirther conspiracy is one of those rare cases where there is a fact here and the deniers need to be called out.

171 calcajun  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:27:35am

re: #165 Honorary Yooper

Point taken. Cheers!

172 Idle Drifter  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:27:47am

What some people fail to understand is that a child can be born outside the United States and still be considered a natural born American citizen. Many kids were born to parents in military or civilian government services overseas as well as those born to parents with overseas private sector jobs plus the relative few that are born while the parents are vacationing. All American citizens. President Obama could have been born on the surface of the moon and still be considered a natural born American citizen.

173 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:27:55am
174 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:28:23am

re: #162 Charpete67

me too...either people don't know much about it or they think it's looney...I have yet to meet someone who believes he not US born.

Personally, I haven't run into the nirthers either. I only know of them from what I've read online and in the occasional newspaper article.

175 Bloodnok  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:28:33am

re: #167 Killgore Trout

Because it might be the smart move. Nobody involved in this current nonsense is going to be a viable leader in 8 -10 years. Speaking out now would sink their political career because the base isn't interested in real world policies. They need these conspiracy theories for now. Right wing blogs and Fox news feed a constant supply of them and there's not much that can be done to counter it until there are enough people willing to listen to reality. We aren't even close yet.

You are exactly right.

176 JacksonTn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:28:38am

I live in the south ... I have met only one person who believes this crap about Obama not being a citizen ... and she was a democrat ... have not talked to her since the primaries so don't know how she voted in the general ... that may not mean anything but it is my experience ...

177 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:28:45am

I just checked my profile and realized that my last post was # 8,666 for me.

And it was about Obama's Nirth Certifikit.

So it is true!

/

178 Flyovercountry  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:28:46am

re: #5 BlueCanuck
I don't think that this will have any bearing on the next round of elections. As long as those running don't subscribe to it, they won't be identified with the cranks. You also underestimate Obama's ineptitude. He is attempting to ram through, at lightning speed, stuff he promised half the country he wouldn't. He is failing to ram through, at lightning speed, stuff he promised the other half he would. Americans may have been foolish enough to vote for him once, they won't do it a second time. The Republicans will make major gains in 2010. I'm still looking for a sane political party to join.

179 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:29:00am

re: #163 Sharmuta

The first test is mid-term elections. At this point, I fear the gop strategy is to hope the situation is bad enough people vote for us just for change!. I hope some sane people in the party step up soon.

I think VA and NJ will be the bell weather as to if the GOP is focusing on the right message and right approach. As long as the fringe concepts don't suck the air out of the argument around economics and tax policy, the GOP should do well there. But if the fringe concepts take hold...all bets are off for the GOP.

180 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:29:11am

"Is Obama the Anti-Christ? Does he have his Nirth Certifikat? Find out this and more this sunday at ___ . And for a limited time Pastor ___ is selling his new audio series entitled, "Vaccines are of the Devil" for only $12.99. Join us and hear the 'word' to salvation...for a small fee."

/

181 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:29:12am

re: #149 Thanos

The R's are meeting in San Diego to talk over the primarys.

Certain businesses in the Midway area are preparing for a bonanza.

182 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:29:16am

re: #11 Dianna

The Midwest appears to be the most rational section of the country, followed closely by the West.

I could have told you that. My grandpa was from Kansas.

183 Charpete67  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:29:36am

I wonder what the polls say about peoples beliefs that 9/11 was an inside job.

184 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:30:36am
185 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:30:39am

re: #166 turn

I gave you an upding for hating Chrissy. ha. Oh I did see that interview ... the Liddy one blew me away because I had always thought of him as a very rational person.

Liddy, rational? This is a man who thought it would be a good idea to break into the Democratic HQ at the Watergate Hotel.

186 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:30:46am

re: #169 SasquatchOnSteroids

It's a Nirthquake. We'll get the big one and some aftershocks, rumblings here and there, some settling.
Michael Steele took a step the other day. I'm still waiting to see what's going to happen to him.
I e-mailed him my support, it was a good step he took.
I still believe the Sane people will win in the end, but if I'm wrong, welll, I'm wrong.
It's too early to tell for me.
We'll see.

NIRTHQUAKE!!! Duck under a door jam! Find a table!

ROFL!

187 Kragar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:30:53am

re: #161 Athos

"Where's the any key?"

"My computer says it performed an illegal operation. Are the cops going to show up?"

188 Racer X  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:31:15am

re: #158 calcajun

Time to start drinking?

I have not stopped since Nov 5th.

189 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:31:33am

re: #142 ~Fianna

It's also going to hurt in National elections. Those numbers show (among other things) a REALLY large geographic divide between the South and the rest of the country. As others have pointed out, there's probably overlap with YEC belief, as well... unless the RNC modifies the way the national primary timeline is set up, it's going to be hard for any candidate who isn't Huckabee to do well, which is going to drive more moderates to the Dems.

That's exactly right. Polling shows that the one demographic the GOP maintains is older white male evangelicals who attend church at least once a week. (Gallup polls)
Naturally this means a lock on the South, because that demographic is larger in the south than elsewhere. Unfortunately this demographic is quite literally dying out. Add to that the projected demographic shifts over the next 20 /30 years...The GOP really needs to be expanding, not shrinking, their base.

190 nikis-knight  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:31:34am

I think the real troublesome kooks would be those who would answer affirmatively to something like, "Do you think Obama should be removed from office due to questions about his birth certificate?"
Wanting to disenfranchise the majority of the electorate and throw the country into choas is hopefully a smaller number than those who answer that they aren't sure where he was born.
I mean, given what we see about the civic knowledge of the average American, how many of those polled know the conections between birthplace and citizenship and eligibility for presidency?

191 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:31:55am

re: #167 Killgore Trout

Because it might be the smart move. Nobody involved in this current nonsense is going to be a viable leader in 8 -10 years. Speaking out now would sink their political career because the base isn't interested in real world policies. They need these conspiracy theories for now. Right wing blogs and Fox news feed a constant supply of them and there's not much that can be done to counter it until there are enough people willing to listen to reality. We aren't even close yet.

it depends how these numbers trend, and I also tend to believe them...after the 2000 election BDS, completely unfounded, started from a slow burn by a few lunatics, escalated into a frothing rage...mass hysteria, and it changed the face of politics, probably permanently...wierd shit happens

192 MTF  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:32:01am

re: #147 Killgore Trout

That's just off-the-wall equivalency. No value comment.

193 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:32:09am

re: #170 iceweasel

Oh, I agree with you, but part of the reason the country and our discourse is in deep trouble is because of the media pretending that there are two sides to every story. There aren't two sides to every fact-- and the nirther conspiracy is one of those rare cases where there is a fact here and the deniers need to be called out.

Agreed...

194 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:32:22am

re: #186 Oh no...Sand People!

NIRTHQUAKE!!! Duck under a door jam! Find a table!

ROFL!

And make sure you've got your BC.

195 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:33:06am

re: #101 iceweasel

Reine, unfortunately nirtherism has been getting attention on TV and in the news by people who treat it as if it were a legitimate question. Lou Dobbs, Michelle Bachmann, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and the ten republicans who were co-sponsering a nirther bill are just some of the ones I know about.

Chris Matthews interviewed one of those GOP nirthers and utterly destroyed him--Charles had a post about it. Jon Stewart did a segment on them as well.


Bachmann's crazy, and Beck and Limbaugh are showmen. What the HELL is wrong with Dobbs?

196 turn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:33:16am

re: #185 Honorary Yooper

Liddy, rational? This is a man who thought it would be a good idea to break into the Democratic HQ at the Watergate Hotel.

Conspiracy theory wise yoop

197 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:33:17am

re: #143 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Why do I have to hit the down arrow key to make the text move up?"

re: #161 Athos

"Where's the any key?"

re: #187 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"My computer says it performed an illegal operation. Are the cops going to show up?"

Please tell me ya'll are kidding, right? Right?

198 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:34:11am

re: #102 WinterCat

Were these likely voters? I didn't see any info about that in the poll article.

What I want to know is how many of them think John McCain was born in the U.S.

/

199 danrudy  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:34:37am

Sheesh.
Of course Obama was born here. I think that is a settled issue.

THe issue that remains unsettled is why our president finds it necessary to conceal so many aspects of his past.

We are not allowed to know about his friends, associates etc.
He wont release his college, records etc.
He sat in a church for 20 years and knows NOTHING about the churches teaching or his preachers philosophies.

They say you can't judge a book (Obama) by its cover. Well, how about letting me open up the book (release some records like everyone else does) and read about it.

200 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:34:41am

re: #187 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"My computer says it performed an illegal operation. Are the cops going to show up?"

first off...are you a doctor?

201 WinterCat  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:34:45am

re: #167 Killgore Trout

Because it might be the smart move. Nobody involved in this current nonsense is going to be a viable leader in 8 -10 years. Speaking out now would sink their political career because the base isn't interested in real world policies. They need these conspiracy theories for now. Right wing blogs and Fox news feed a constant supply of them and there's not much that can be done to counter it until there are enough people willing to listen to reality. We aren't even close yet.

But if this stuff doesn't get squashed who is to say that there will ever be enough people willing to listen to reality? A leader would, at the very least, redirect people to valid issues over this trash. I don't watch Fox because they seem to love this stuff and more crackpot "issues" besides.

202 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:34:56am

re: #197 reine.de.tout

Please tell me ya'll are kidding, right? Right?

My husband used to do tech support. They are not kidding.

203 vxbush  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:35:02am

re: #197 reine.de.tout

Please tell me ya'll are kidding, right? Right?

I love the cup-holder that slides out when you need it.

/true story

204 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:35:14am

re: #197 reine.de.tout

Please tell me ya'll are kidding, right? Right?

The mouse likes it when you roll it over and play with the ball.

205 turn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:35:41am

re: #190 nikis-knight

and how many realize gaffen Joe Biden would become president, and blinky VP?

206 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:36:24am

re: #124 avanti

Someone has to take over leadership of the GOP and speak out against the nuts, even by risking the wrath of Rush, Beck and the rest that are stoking the wrong fire.

Well, Steele tried this past week, no?

207 Kragar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:36:26am

re: #197 reine.de.tout

Please tell me ya'll are kidding, right? Right?

Nope. My personal favorite was the user who wondered why he couldn't connect to the internet using his brand new wireless NIC.

"How did you configure your router?"

"Whats a router?"

208 Wendya  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:36:28am

re: #56 Shug

Still can't find their methods and raw data

This is all they have:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

209 BlueCanuck  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:36:47am

re: #178 Flyovercountry

The expression, "Never interrupt your enemy in a middle of mistake" comes to mind. Trouble is the right is too busy interrupting themselves and ignoring the mass of mistakes coming from the government. Besides if the mass of them are screaming this nonsense it doesnt' matter what the silent majorty are thinking. They will though move to saner pastures.

210 VioletTiger  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:36:59am

re: #194 SasquatchOnSteroids

And make sure you've got your BC.


buoyancy compensator?/
(scuba diver here)

211 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:37:17am

re: #197 reine.de.tout

Please tell me ya'll are kidding, right? Right?

Sadly, no, they're not kidding. Humans obviously do not make it by as a species on intelligence and smarts alone.

212 Charpete67  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:37:44am

don't these kooks realize that BHO will be the biggest boost for the conservative movement since Jimmy Carter?

213 turn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:37:48am

re: #197 reine.de.tout

Please tell me ya'll are kidding, right? Right?

Hi reine, my cordless mouse died - dang cordless cat.

214 avanti  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:38:08am

re: #146 Charles

Well, notice in the regional breakdown -- the Nirthers are strongly concentrated in the South. If you don't live in the South it's a lot less likely that you'd encounter them.

Don't take this as a slam at the south because it happened back in the 60's, but I first noticed demographic differences when I was in the Navy. Back then, if I talked about school integration, or evolution, I'd likely get my ass handed to me if speaking with a southerner..
I know that was the old south, but some of that sort of thing might be lingering especially in rural areas.

215 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:38:10am

re: #184 buzzsawmonkey

I could live with a few nirther nuts, and, yes, a few creationists, in a Republican-majority Congress--not because I support either position in the slightest, but because I consider both of these issues utterly marginal to the principles of strong defense, limited government, and fiscal responsibility.

I agree- which makes me wonder why these people are in the "conservative movement" since they don't seem to know where the boundary lies. For me, the issue with creationism actually serves as a line for what I personally consider a conservative and one who is... something else. And I don't mean to include anyone other than creationists pushing or supporting legislation. They don't belong in the "limited government" sphere, and I don't see them as the allies other may see them as.

216 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:38:27am

re: #172 Idle Drifter

What some people fail to understand is that a child can be born outside the United States and still be considered a natural born American citizen. Many kids were born to parents in military or civilian government services overseas as well as those born to parents with overseas private sector jobs plus the relative few that are born while the parents are vacationing. All American citizens. President Obama could have been born on the surface of the moon and still be considered a natural born American citizen.

THANK YOU!

217 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:38:29am

re: #184 buzzsawmonkey

I would rather stress the irrelevance of the nirther issue than attempt to argue people out of it, or aid those who would prefer to see any and all conservative voices destroyed by typing them all as "nuts."

That's not an option when you have people with very loud voices, like World Net Daily for one example and Orly Taitz for another, pushing the birth certificate nonsense as hard as they can, Fox News doing their sly not-quite-promotion bit, and dozens of right wing bloggers either openly promoting it or never denouncing it.

I don't agree that it's an option at this point, now that the media has glommed onto it, to just sit back and ignore it and hope it goes away. It's not going away.

218 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:38:50am

re: #195 SanFranciscoZionist

Bachmann's crazy, and Beck and Limbaugh are showmen. What the HELL is wrong with Dobbs?

Dobbs has been going off the rails for a long time. He's also pandered to the crazy anti-immigration people and right wing militia type people for the last couple of years.

219 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:39:12am

re: #210 VioletTiger

buoyancy compensator?/
(scuba diver here)

Birth Control.

/U.N.

220 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:39:14am

OT: ANALYSIS / U.S. losing faith in usefulness of Tehran dialogue

From the article:

The talks held in Israel this week by senior Obama administration officials, which focused to a large extent on blocking Iran's nuclear program, indicate that the Americans - influenced by the Iranian regime's conduct toward the post-election unrest that began in early June - are for the first time showing more understanding for Israel's view of events. The United States is more skeptical than before about the likelihood that a diplomatic dialogue, or even harsh sanctions should that option fail, will dissuade the Iranians from their goal.
* * *
The talks on the matter opened just after a joint American-Israeli exercise at Nevada's Nellis Air Force Base. It was dubbed Red Flag, and included training on the in-flight refueling of Israeli jets by American airplanes.

Now there is some change I can hope for.

221 Racer X  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:39:48am

Obama is black!
Who cares. His ideology is RED. That concerns me.

Obama was not born in the U.S.!
Not an issue. He travels the world apologizing for America, yet he cannot apologize to one American cop. THAT concerns me.

222 Russkilitlover  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:40:10am

re: #140 Shug


and really, again , downding away but Who gives a rip if somebody doesn't believe where Obama was born? Their ignorance is not harming the country, is it?

No, it isn't. But is creates a very nice diversion from the legislative crap that's been passed or in the works. Keep everyone fired up about this non-issue and keep meeting in the back rooms legislating the destruction of our economy. There's a very good reason Obama doesn't do what the nirthers ask - talk about and prove his citizenship - this "fringe" discussion detracts.

223 DeafDog  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:40:49am

Why didn't we ever see a poll like this of the % of Dems who thought 9-11 was an inside job?

224 Catttt  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:40:51am

re: #103 midwestgak

OT. I'm late to the threads so this may already may have been posted.

Crhis Dodd has prostate cancer

Electing surgery over drug treatment. He also plugged the need for health care reform.

I see it's early stage - good. Prostate-specific antigen (PSA) blood testing and exams are fortunately widespread in use now - about 90 percent of all prostate cancers are currently diagnosed at an early stage.

225 avanti  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:41:04am

re: #206 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, Steele tried this past week, no?

Yes, and today they are discussing his leadership and he needs to tread softly.

226 Son of the Black Dog  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:41:10am

re: #164 Nene1

A fifth of kids leaving High School can't even identify the USA
on an atlas of the Earth.
Is it surprising if a similarly disturbing number didn't even know that Hawaii was one of those States ?

A lady from New Mexico, trying to purchase tickets for the Atlanta Olympics through the US Olympic Committee's phone bank, was repeatedly told she would have to go through her home country's Olympic Committee.

227 Syrah  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:41:19am

Nirtherism is fringing of the mainstream.

228 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:41:22am
Do you believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States of America or not?

Here's my answer: I'm am not sure.
But Barack Obama provided the needed documentation proving he is a United States citizen, born in Hawaii. Yet, I do understand why some folks do doubt his citizenship status.

BTW - The answers: Not sure, or questioning his citizenship, may simply be a reflection of republicans discontent.

229 nikis-knight  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:41:38am

re: #205 turn

and how many realize gaffen Joe Biden would become president, and blinky VP?

I suspect that the people who know anything about Biden other than "Old white Democrat VP" are already more informed than the average conspiracist.

And on that note: [Link: joebidensaidthat.com...]

230 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:41:42am

re: #223 DeafDog

Why didn't we ever see a poll like this of the % of Dems who thought 9-11 was an inside job?

Dunno. I live in the dark blue heartland, and only ever heard that from people I could already identify as crazy. Did anyone ever run such a poll?

231 wahabicorridor  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:41:44am

re: #217 Charles

and Orly Taitz

Who is this Orly Taitz person?

232 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:42:15am

re: #225 avanti

Yes, and today they are discussing his leadership and he needs to tread softly.

Has Steele considered challenging Limbaugh to a duel for control of the Republican party?

233 opnion  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:42:24am

re: #218 iceweasel

Dobbs has been going off the rails for a long time. He's also pandered to the crazy anti-immigration people and right wing militia type people for the last couple of years.

To be precise, I have never heard Dobbs oppose immigration, only "Illeagal"
immigration, big difference.

234 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:42:28am

re: #203 vxbush

I love the cup-holder that slides out when you need it.

/true story

wasn't there a story about a guy calling tech service wondering why it wouldn't turn on and it ended up being because the power was out ?
Seem to recall something like that.

235 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:43:12am

re: #208 Wendya

This is all they have:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Actually, that's some useful data (even if it is dKos *spit*).

Regions defined.

GEOGRAPHIC BREAKDOWN:

Northeast:
DC, ME, VT, NY, MD, PA, CT, DE, MA, NH, RI, WV, NJ

South:
FL, NC, SC, AL, MS, GA, VA, TN, KY, LA, AR, TX

Midwest:
IL, MN, MI, OH, WI, IA, MO, KS, IN, ND, SD, OK, NE

West:
NM, CA, OR, WA, AK, HI, MT, ID, UT, NV, AZ, WY, CO

Then there's some other interesting data.

Racial breakdown:

WHITE 71y 14n 15ns
BLACK 97y 1n 2ns
LATINO 87y 6n 7ns
OTHER/REF 88y 6n 6ns

And an age break down:

18-29 88y 4n 8ns
30-44 72y 14n 14ns
45-59 82y 8n 10ms
60+ 69y 17n 14ns

And just for shits and giggles there the other question as well,
"Do you believe that America and Africa were once part of the same continent?"

It too is broken down the same way, and the results are even sadder than the nirther question.

236 ~Fianna  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:43:17am

re: #149 Thanos

The R's are meeting in San Diego to talk over the primarys.

*nod* Hopefully they'll do something to change that. We need two strong parties.

237 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:43:32am

re: #230 SanFranciscoZionist

Dunno. I live in the dark blue heartland, and only ever heard that from people I could already identify as crazy. Did anyone ever run such a poll?

In addition, the crazy people tended not to identify as Democrats.

238 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:44:16am

re: #206 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, Steele tried this past week, no?

he should have spoken out months ago

239 turn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:44:20am

re: #229 nikis-knight

hey thanks for that link, ha what an idjit. He should retire to the villages.

240 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:44:35am

OT- RealWest just email me. Says he is just tired and anxious and the such. He said he'll probably be back this weekend.

241 Catttt  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:44:39am

re: #177 karmic_inquisitor

I just checked my profile and realized that my last post was # 8,666 for me.

And it was about Obama's Nirth Certifikit.

So it is true!

/

The other day, one of my friends on Twitter realized she had the following of the beast (666 followers). I need followers - 666, people! :D

242 jvic  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:44:52am

re: #142 ~Fianna

It's also going to hurt in National elections. Those numbers show (among other things) a REALLY large geographic divide between the South and the rest of the country. As others have pointed out, there's probably overlap with YEC belief, as well... unless the RNC modifies the way the national primary timeline is set up, it's going to be hard for any candidate who isn't Huckabee to do well, which is going to drive more moderates to the Dems.

And look how independents line up with Democrats. wince

243 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:45:03am

I have some suspicions about this poll. That the South stands out like a sucked thumb on a dirty baby doesn't make sense. Even the hillbillies I know, and I live in several parts of the south, are pretty smart rednecks.

That the Democrats and Republicans differ is just natural political evolution with the usual tunnel vision.

244 turn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:45:13am

re: #240 Cannadian Club Akbar

Thanks for the update akbar

245 WinterCat  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:45:15am

re: #217 Charles

That's not an option when you have people with very loud voices, like World Net Daily for one example and Orly Taitz for another, pushing the birth certificate nonsense as hard as they can, Fox News doing their sly not-quite-promotion bit, and dozens of right wing bloggers either openly promoting it or never denouncing it.

I don't agree that it's an option at this point, now that the media has glommed onto it, to just sit back and ignore it and hope it goes away. It's not going away.

What can be done Charles? How the heck can we get rid of this crap and move forward with an alternative to Obama that is based in sanity?

246 LGoPs  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:45:23am

re: #157 iceweasel

Hey turn-- no, it was even worse. It was one of the GOP congressmen who was co-sponsering the bill. It took Matthews seven minutes to get the guy to admit that he personally believed Obama was a citizen.

Charles posted the video. It's worth watching, believe me. Rep. Campbell squirms and squirms and visibly winces at the end when Chris Matthews says "Ok, folks in Campbell's district-- he believes Obama is a citizen".

I hate Matthews but this was awesome.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Why do you hate Matthews? In previous posts you've also said you hate Pelosi IIRC. Why?
I'm curious, not trying to poke at you...

247 CommonCents  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:45:36am

I can't stand the implication of Democrats that they are all Ivy league intellectuals and Republicans are all inbred idiots.

When almost your entire base is made up of inner city unemployed and union workers who think they should get $80K/yr for turning a screw driver, the donkeys can kiss my ass (pun intended).

248 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:46:05am
249 VioletTiger  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:46:06am

re: #241 Cattt

The other day, one of my friends on Twitter realized she had the following of the beast (666 followers). I need followers - 666, people! :D

I signed up for Twitter and got some followers. Why, I do not know. I don't even know these people.

250 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:46:18am

re: #218 iceweasel

Dobbs has been going off the rails for a long time. He's also pandered to the crazy anti-immigration people and right wing militia type people for the last couple of years.

why is that crazy...we Americans respect our sovereignty

251 itellu3times  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:46:24am

re: #233 opnion

To be precise, I have never heard Dobbs oppose immigration, only "Illeagal" immigration, big difference.

Also H-1b that isn't exactly immigration but is legal.

252 LGoPs  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:46:36am

re: #172 Idle Drifter

What some people fail to understand is that a child can be born outside the United States and still be considered a natural born American citizen. Many kids were born to parents in military or civilian government services overseas as well as those born to parents with overseas private sector jobs plus the relative few that are born while the parents are vacationing. All American citizens. President Obama could have been born on the surface of the moon and still be considered a natural born American citizen.

I'd be more inclined to believe he was born on the moon...since he is a moonbat.

253 turn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:46:58am

re: #245 WinterCat

What can be done Charles? How the heck can we get rid of this crap and move forward with an alternative to Obama that is based in sanity?

Well I don't have a good answer for that but I can tell you for sure that Charles is doing his part.

254 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:47:02am

re: #235 Honorary Yooper

Speaking of the second question, there's a sad political breakdown of it that makes even Democrats look bad (but not as bad as the Republicans, IMHO).

Do you believe that America and Africa were once part of the same continent?

Demo. Yes, No, Not Sure
DEM 51 16 33
REP 24 47 29
IND 44 23 33
OTH/REF 42 25 33
NON VOTERS 46 22 32

Have these idiots never heard of Pangea?

255 avanti  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:47:03am

re: #232 SanFranciscoZionist

Has Steele considered challenging Limbaugh to a duel for control of the Republican party?

Steele was challenged by Limbaugh, and apologized hat in hand for for negative comments about him. Not Steele's finest hour IMHO.

256 WinterCat  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:47:49am

re: #253 turn

Well I don't have a good answer for that but I can tell you for sure that Charles is doing his part.

That is true, no doubt, but this little ship is not going to turn the ocean liner around.

257 quiet man  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:47:57am

re: #254 Honorary Yooper

Probably not..they know only what the TV tells them.

258 Wendya  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:48:13am

re: #62 avanti

Scott Rasmussen is a Evangelical Christian and if his poll is even close it will be more acceptable to the base.

They are also one of the most accurate pollsters.

259 cronus  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:48:19am

Less than bold prediction: Number of constituents raising obamacare vs. birth certificates at August townhalls will run about 10,000 to 1. MSM segments will make it out to look as though it is 1 to 1.

260 nikis-knight  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:48:44am

re: #254 Honorary Yooper


Have these idiots never heard of Pangea?

Why would that make them idiots? Ignorant, in a narrow field, sure, but not a mark agaisnt their intelligence, by and large.

261 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:48:51am

re: #243 Naso Tang

I have some suspicions about this poll. That the South stands out like a sucked thumb on a dirty baby doesn't make sense. Even the hillbillies I know, and I live in several parts of the south, are pretty smart rednecks.

That the Democrats and Republicans differ is just natural political evolution with the usual tunnel vision.

Which is it? Am I a hillbilly or a red neck? Just kidding, hillbillies live in West Virginia:P

262 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:49:10am

re: #254 Honorary Yooper

Speaking of the second question, there's a sad political breakdown of it that makes even Democrats look bad (but not as bad as the Republicans, IMHO).

Have these idiots never heard of Pangea?

Flute playing half brother of Mother EarthGoddess? Probably not./

263 opnion  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:49:13am

re: #251 itellu3times

Also H-1b that isn't exactly immigration but is legal.

Right & I never heard Dobbs say anything about that.

264 quiet man  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:49:35am

re: #255 avanti
Nor would Rush be considered leader of the republican party

I wish he would have been, because we wouldnt have Obama as President.

265 turn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:49:45am

re: #256 WinterCat

That is true, no doubt, but this little ship is not going to turn the ocean liner around.

Maybe, but remember this little ship prevented a presidential election from getting tipped. bbl, lunch.

266 CommonCents  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:49:46am

re: #251 itellu3times

Also H-1b that isn't exactly immigration but is legal.

Just because something is legal doesn't make it good. I don't have the YouTube link but there's a good one of a law firm in PA that specializes in teaching companies how to skirt around hiring laws in order to get H-1b CHEAP LABOR from overseas.

267 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:49:52am

re: #260 nikis-knight

Why would that make them idiots? Ignorant, in a narrow field, sure, but not a mark agaisnt their intelligence, by and large.

It's basic Earth history. Should be learned by the time they're in middle school.

268 redstateredneck  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:49:55am

re: #240 Cannadian Club Akbar

OT- RealWest just email me. Says he is just tired and anxious and the such. He said he'll probably be back this weekend.

I talk to him every day. Remember him in your prayers, y'all.

269 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:50:10am

re: #255 avanti

Steele was challenged by Limbaugh, and apologized hat in hand for for negative comments about him. Not Steele's finest hour IMHO.

I'm sure you were crushed.

270 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:50:22am

I stated THE (imho) definitive reason why this entire birthcert. issue should have been a non-starter from day one
As much as I deplore where the Democrat Party is in todays politics, as much as I know they are wrong headed about policy and the future of this great nation, I know for a fact that they are not suicidal
Back when Obama was just one of many candidates for the nomination, you can be 1,000 per cent sure he was TOTALLY vetted by the DNC.
If it came to light post nomination that he was NOT a citizen, it would have been (and still would be) the absolute end of the Democrat Party for at least 2 generations

271 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:50:24am

re: #257 quiet man

Probably not..they know only what the TV tells them.

They need to change the channel away from Benny Hinn.

272 ~Fianna  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:50:47am

re: #242 jvic

And look how independents line up with Democrats. wince

Yeah, I caught that.

You'd think someone over there could read a poll and figure out that this stuff just isn't working.

273 Kragar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:51:01am

re: #267 Honorary Yooper

It's basic Earth history. Should be learned by the time they're in middle school.

Well, that explains that then.

/

274 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:51:17am

re: #203 vxbush

I love the cup-holder that slides out when you need it.

/true story

re: #207 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nope. My personal favorite was the user who wondered why he couldn't connect to the internet using his brand new wireless NIC.

"How did you configure your router?"

"Whats a router?"

OK, this is unbelievable to me.
It really is.
Ya'll must enjoy going into work every day!
No telling how many laughs you'll get.

275 quiet man  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:51:19am

re: #271 Honorary Yooper
Benny has that hypnotic hair.
Hard to look away when it on screen

276 VioletTiger  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:51:38am

Perhaps if they could be convinced that no force in heaven or hell (take notice antiChrist people) will ever remove Obama from office they might give it up and move on.
Defeat him at the ballot box and cease the nonsense.

277 Wendya  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:51:43am

re: #223 DeafDog

Why didn't we ever see a poll like this of the % of Dems who thought 9-11 was an inside job?

Because the right didn't choose to capitalize on it as a distraction.

278 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:51:49am

re: #184 buzzsawmonkey

...or aid those who would prefer to see any and all conservative voices destroyed by typing them all as "nuts."

I have to disagree here too. When someone is in the grip of a delusion, it doesn't help them to play along and pretend it's no big deal. I believe that when someone is acting crazy they should hear about it from everyone around them.

I agree with you that a lot of these people aren't inherently deranged -- but the Nirth Certifikit theory IS. And more people need to be unafraid to say so, and give this nonsense exactly the amount of respect it deserves -- none.

279 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:51:59am

re: #246 LGoPs

Why do you hate Matthews? In previous posts you've also said you hate Pelosi IIRC. Why?
I'm curious, not trying to poke at you...

Matthews is a vacuous media gasbag who perfectly exemplifies the problem with Mainstream Media and Beltway pundits. They offer illinformed opinion instead of actual analysis or reporting, and chase the shiny object of that day's newscycle. They are more concerned with keeping their jobs and their access to power rather than doing what should be their jobs. People complain (rightly) about Matthews and the 'tingle' up his leg quote, but he said just as many ridiculous things about Bush. (In 2005: "Bush glimmers with sunny nobility" and later "Everyone likes the President except the real wackos" are just two examples).

He's the perfect exemplar of what's wrong with our media establishment.

280 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:52:01am
281 CommonCents  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:52:05am

On a lighter note...

Why it is very important to understand English:

I had a bunch of Canadian dollars I needed to exchange, so I went to the currency exchange window at the local bank.

There was a short line - Just one lady in front of me .. an Asian lady who was trying to exchange yen for dollars and she was a little irritated ...

She asked the teller,'Why it change?? Yesterday, I get two hunat dolla fo yen. Today I get hunat eighty?? Why it change?'

The teller shrugged his shoulders and said, “'I don’t know, fluctuations”.

The Asian lady says,'Fluc you white people, too'.

282 Catttt  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:52:17am

re: #249 VioletTiger

I signed up for Twitter and got some followers. Why, I do not know. I don't even know these people.

I know a lot of people, but spammers will follow you. Twitter tries to delete them - I delete titty girls with sex video sites. If you say something that interests a person, they might follow you. For example, a couple of basketball players and geocachers are following me - I have no clue why.

You get an interesting cross section. For example, one of my friends on Twitter is an Iranian communist revolutionary type. Really has good sources. He's also cute as hell, but that's beside the point.

283 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:52:20am

re: #207 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nope. My personal favorite was the user who wondered why he couldn't connect to the internet using his brand new wireless NIC.

"How did you configure your router?"

"Whats a router?"

Mine is around a local attorney who rented a suite in a local office complex that my co provided tech support for. The assigned tech was on holiday so I took a call from them complaining that they couldn't get on the internet. I checked, the attorney did not subscribe to the building wireless network. So went to their suite and proceeded to plug the cable on their desk tagged 'Internet' into the ethernet port on the laptop. He had no clue that a connection was needed in order to get on the web. Apparently, his assistant would do this when they delivered his printed out email (for hand written or dictated response that the assistant sent out) - but forgot.

Some people are a lot safer not using technology.

284 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:52:47am

re: #261 Cannadian Club Akbar

Which is it? Am I a hillbilly or a red neck? Just kidding, hillbillies live in West Virginia:P

Here we go. My wife is from West Virginia. According to her outhouse stories they are hillbillies, and based on the bumper stickers and vehicles, also rednecks, and proud of it.

So there! :=)

285 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:52:52am

re: #218 iceweasel

Dobbs has been going off the rails for a long time. He's also pandered to the crazy anti-immigration people and right wing militia type people for the last couple of years.

what of the citizens that oppose illegal immigration?...the militia types have every right to go stand on the border...and in fact both Bush and BO have bolstered the Border Patrol...you have a odd view of American independence

286 Syrah  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:53:36am

re: #278 Charles

I have to disagree here too. When someone is in the grip of a delusion, it doesn't help them to play along and pretend it's no big deal. I believe that when someone is acting crazy they should hear about it from everyone around them -- I agree that a lot of these people aren't inherently deranged, but the theory IS. And more people need to be unafraid to say so, and give this nonsense exactly the amount of respect it deserves -- none.

The Nirther kooks must be mocked.

287 turn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:54:11am

re: #279 iceweasel

You didn't include "loud mouth" too. Right on.

288 VioletTiger  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:54:22am

re: #282 Cattt

I know a lot of people, but spammers will follow you. Twitter tries to delete them - I delete titty girls with sex video sites. If you say something that interests a person, they might follow you. For example, a couple of basketball players and geocachers are following me - I have no clue why.

You get an interesting cross section. For example, one of my friends on Twitter is an Iranian communist revolutionary type. Really has good sources. He's also cute as hell, but that's beside the point.

Interesting. I haven't spent much time with it. Will do so if I ever get the time.

289 Catttt  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:54:40am

re: #278 Charles

I have to disagree here too. When someone is in the grip of a delusion, it doesn't help them to play along and pretend it's no big deal. I believe that when someone is acting crazy they should hear about it from everyone around them -- I agree that a lot of these people aren't inherently deranged, but the theory IS. And more people need to be unafraid to say so, and give this nonsense exactly the amount of respect it deserves -- none.

The visual I always get - what one really wants and needs to do in these cases - is Cher in Moonstruck:

Youtube Video
290 quiet man  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:54:59am

It hardly matters what party, but some people are going to hold on to some silly fantasy in spite of any and all fact just because they want to...

Others will use that weakness to exploit the situation. How many times have we seen the same thing before?? Lots of times.

291 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:55:09am

re: #218 iceweasel

Dobbs has been going off the rails for a long time. He's also pandered to the crazy anti-immigration people and right wing militia type people for the last couple of years.

That would be anti ILLEGAL immigration people

HUGE difference

292 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:55:21am

re: #217 Charles

Stupid has to be confronted otherwise the sheep will glom onto it and adopt it.

It's as if an argument is true based on how loud people talk about it...loud wins over common sense and facts.

293 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:55:31am

(sigh)

can we have another Gilligan's Island or cute critter thread instead of this shit?

294 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:56:04am

re: #214 avanti

Don't take this as a slam at the south because it happened back in the 60's, but I first noticed demographic differences when I was in the Navy. Back then, if I talked about school integration, or evolution, I'd likely get my ass handed to me if speaking with a southerner..
I know that was the old south, but some of that sort of thing might be lingering especially in rural areas.

Avanti - this is what I've been trying to figure out.
Those high numbers in the south - 53% believeing "no" or "not sure" - don't make sense to me.

The population of Louisiana, where I live, is about 60% white, 31% black. Baton Rouge is about 50% white, 45% black. The population breakdown for the state of Georgia is similar to that of Louisiana.

So the polling demographic information would be helpful, I think, in figuring out what these numbers mean. You can look at the poll numbers and think, well, racism is alive and kicking in the South, IF you don’t know that in the South, the percentage of the population that is black is larger than in it is in other areas of the country. Since that is true, the much larger percentage of southerners who voted no or not sure on that poll just doesn’t make sense, UNLESS the pollsters targeted primarily white voters in the South, and even then, it just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm still trying to figure out how they could have gotten such a mush larger number of southerners saying "no" or "not sure" than they got in the rest of the country.

295 AreaMan  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:57:03am

If you can't lick 'em, join 'em:

Demand the birth certificates of both Clintons, both Bushes, and Jimmy Carter. It's the only rational choice.

296 jvic  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:57:05am

re: #86 Sharmuta
re: #184 buzzsawmonkey
re: #217 Charles
re: #280 buzzsawmonkey

Would a Republican Congress provoke a Constitutional crisis over nirtherism? I worry they would--and I'm one of the independents in that poll.

297 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:57:05am

re: #293 _RememberTonyC

(sigh)

can we have another Gilligan's Island or cute critter thread instead of this shit?

Here you go.

298 calcajun  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:58:03am

re: #253 turn

As a son of the South, I must point out that the term "Deep South" is, in fact, an oxymoron.

BTW, the disorder is not confined to those regions south of Mason-Dixon. There's a fair number of loonies out here in So Cal, too.

299 Outrider  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:58:15am

The problem is the entire debacle is being exploited by the Obama administration. They recognized early on this will be a divisive factor in the GOP and have milked it for all it is worth.

By merely keeping quiet on the entire (non) issue the administration has fueled the fires of the conspiracy nuts.

And yes, people of the South recognize Hawaii as a state. However; too many people are totally unaware of the entire Certificate of Live Birth issues; to wit, each state administers its own certificates (that whole 10th amendment thing). I have actually had people tell me they had Birth Certificates with little footprints on them and everything, not realizing they are hospital souvenirs.

Mostly, I suspect it is merely grasping at straws, still in denial wit the outcome of the election.

300 LGoPs  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:58:18am

re: #281 CommonCents

On a lighter note...

Why it is very important to understand English:

I had a bunch of Canadian dollars I needed to exchange, so I went to the currency exchange window at the local bank.

There was a short line - Just one lady in front of me .. an Asian lady who was trying to exchange yen for dollars and she was a little irritated ...

She asked the teller,'Why it change?? Yesterday, I get two hunat dolla fo yen. Today I get hunat eighty?? Why it change?'

The teller shrugged his shoulders and said, “'I don’t know, fluctuations”.

The Asian lady says,'Fluc you white people, too'.

LOl...
:) I needed that.

301 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:58:30am

re: #233 opnion

To be precise, I have never heard Dobbs oppose immigration, only "Illeagal"
immigration, big difference.

Right, Dobbs has a history of pandering to the extremist militia types who oppose illegal immigration. (I'm not referring to normal people who are merely anti-illegal immigration.)

302 quiet man  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:58:43am

re: #295 AreaMan

I would trade seeing all of those Birth certificates for the screen shot of John F Kerrys DD-214

303 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:58:52am

Alright, I am going to stop making broad generalizations about the content of the south.
My apologies. Sometimes I just beat a dead horse here and there.

304 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:59:05am

re: #281 CommonCents

On a lighter note...

Why it is very important to understand English:

I had a bunch of Canadian dollars I needed to exchange, so I went to the currency exchange window at the local bank.

There was a short line - Just one lady in front of me .. an Asian lady who was trying to exchange yen for dollars and she was a little irritated ...

She asked the teller,'Why it change?? Yesterday, I get two hunat dolla fo yen. Today I get hunat eighty?? Why it change?'

The teller shrugged his shoulders and said, “'I don’t know, fluctuations”.

The Asian lady says,'Fluc you white people, too'.

Asianist!

//

305 wahabicorridor  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:59:27am

Ok, I just f inished looking up this Orly Taitz woman. She is an absolute loon.

306 Flyovercountry  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:59:31am

re: #209 BlueCanuck
I've been around for a long time, (I'm old.) I've seen a lot of these election cycles come and go. The last Hopety Change guy was James Earl Carter, who narrowly defeated a Republican Incumbent from a party even more determined to self destruct. He was history four years later. I watched Reagan survive the idiocy of James Watt, the implosion of his first cabinet, and he thrived. Nixon had cabinet members take out full page ads in the NYT to ask him for an hour long meeting, and he was re-elected. Embarrasing things happen for politicians on a consistent basis. The results aren't always permanent. Matter of fact, the results don't usually last past a couple of weeks. This Cap and Trade and Health Care Destruction, will last forever. In the end analysis, people will be so tired in a couple of weeks of these idiots, that they'll simply tune them out. It won't have a bearing on anyone's vote. People still voted for Obama even though his supporters were screaming 911 nonsense throughout the entire election season.

307 calcajun  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:59:52am

re: #299 Outrider

You must point out to them that just because you believe strongly in something, does not mean that it is true.

308 Van Helsing  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:59:59am

re: #165 Honorary Yooper

Is it ever time to stop?

There at least times to pause...

309 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:00:30pm
310 Wendya  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:00:49pm

re: #296 jvic

Would a Republican Congress provoke a Constitutional crisis over nirtherism?

No.

311 opnion  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:00:54pm

re: #285 albusteve

what of the citizens that oppose illegal immigration?...the militia types have every right to go stand on the border...and in fact both Bush and BO have bolstered the Border Patrol...you have a odd view of American independence

We are either sovereign or we're not. Mexico takes their own sovereignty seriously. If you enter Mexico Illegally you can be jailed for 10 years.

312 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:01:01pm

re: #305 wahabicorridor

Ok, I just f inished looking up this Orly Taitz woman. She is an absolute loon.

I hope you saw a bit of video. Hilarious.

313 Outrider  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:01:13pm

re: #307 calcajun

You must point out to them that just because you believe strongly in something, does not mean that it is true.

preaching to the choir ;-)>

314 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:01:42pm

re: #307 calcajun

You must point out to them that just because you believe strongly in something, does not mean that it is true.

I strongly believe I'll have another beer. True.

315 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:01:55pm

re: #307 calcajun

You must point out to them that just because you believe strongly in something, does not mean that it is true.

This is not a creationist thread!

316 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:02:33pm

re: #301 iceweasel

Right, Dobbs has a history of pandering to the extremist militia types who oppose illegal immigration. (I'm not referring to normal people who are merely anti-illegal immigration.)

What about people that are anti illegal immigration and although not "miltia types" supported their attempt to be a presence at the border?

I'm not saying send the militia money or volunteers, just tacit approval?
Would that make that person an "extremist" also?

317 wahabicorridor  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:02:53pm

re: #312 wrenchwench

I hope you saw a bit of video. Hilarious.

I'm hoping to watch it later. For some reason I lost my audio. Geeks due this afternoon.

I can't see anyone taking her seriously if she swore the sun rises in the east.

318 calcajun  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:03:41pm

re: #305 wahabicorridor

Ok, I just f inished looking up this Orly Taitz woman.

What's you looked up a woman's oily what ?! Please, children read this site. ///

319 calcajun  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:04:09pm

re: #308 Van Helsing

There at least times to pause...

just to order another round.

320 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:04:23pm

re: #301 iceweasel

Right, Dobbs has a history of pandering to the extremist militia types who oppose illegal immigration. (I'm not referring to normal people who are merely anti-illegal immigration.)


booga booga!...that's pretty funny...are the Border Patrol extremist militia types?...everybody is an extremist, or a racist, or a kook that disagrees with you...we are concerned Americans

321 wahabicorridor  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:04:46pm

re: #318 calcajun


ROTHFLMAO!

I'm gonna sic Mandy on you...

322 Racer X  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:04:57pm

re: #293 _RememberTonyC

(sigh)

can we have another Gilligan's Island or cute critter thread instead of this shit?

Skii-pper! I found the Nirth certifikate!

You idiot Giligan, thats a chinese take out menu.

323 calcajun  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:04:59pm

re: #315 Naso Tang

Same concept, different subject.

324 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:05:21pm

re: #311 opnion

We are either sovereign or we're not. Mexico takes their own sovereignty seriously. If you enter Mexico Illegally you can be jailed for 10 years.

or worse...they have killed Honduran and Salvadoran refugees

325 quiet man  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:05:48pm

re: #322 Racer X

Gilligan answers:

I thought it was the same thing!
326 redstateredneck  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:05:51pm

re: #321 wahabicorridor

ROTHFLMAO!

I'm gonna sic Mandy on you...

That was whack worthy, wasn't it?

327 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:06:10pm

re: #323 calcajun

Did you miss the implied sarc?

:)

328 LGoPs  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:06:24pm

re: #301 iceweasel

Right, Dobbs has a history of pandering to the extremist militia types who oppose illegal immigration. (I'm not referring to normal people who are merely anti-illegal immigration.)

Who are these extremists? I haven't heard of anyone getting shot or injured. You make it sound like there's been a firefight going on.

329 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:06:27pm

re: #316 sattv4u2

What about people that are anti illegal immigration and although not "miltia types" supported their attempt to be a presence at the border?

I'm not saying send the militia money or volunteers, just tacit approval?
Would that make that person an "extremist" also?

I'm not interested in having a debate about immigration until we have a thread about it or an open thread.

The question was about Dobbs, and I mentioned this nirther stuff isn't the first time Dobbs has gone off the rails. His history of coverage involving illegal iimmigration has also featured a lot of wackiness. Anyone interested enough in Dobbs can check that out, if so inclined.

331 Catttt  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:07:39pm

re: #288 VioletTiger

Interesting. I haven't spent much time with it. Will do so if I ever get the time.

I got into it during the Iran Election thing, picked up several good Iranian friends, then branched out into fellow Adam Lambert/Idol maniacs. Now I'm also posting at ONTD_AI on live journal, where you can be as obscene and crazy as you want to be (which is why we have our own separate designation - with a warning before you enter). I had to find a place to share so I didn't drive you all nuts and post stuff like this: (may not be work safe)

Youtube Video
332 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:07:48pm

re: #299 Outrider


I have actually had people tell me they had Birth Certificates with little footprints on them and everything, not realizing they are hospital souvenirs.

So you're saying that bronzed baby shoes are NOT a valid form of id? Damn! I was going to start a naby shoes campaign!

333 Big Steve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:08:06pm

Does anyone have a good theory on how to make a kook movement disappear? I know that in real science, while we all try to believe that rational people change their minds when a better theory comes around; what really happens is the adherents to the old theory never change they just just become dessicated old professors railing away and slowly losing grad students until they die and are not replaced. In most cases, kook movements are fed by publicity and die when the publicity goes away. I, for one, believe that comedy does a great job at killing kook movements by mocking them into marginality.

334 calcajun  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:08:15pm

re: #327 Naso Tang

I saw no tag. I make no assumptions.

335 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:08:41pm

re: #329 iceweasel

I'm not interested in having a debate about immigration until we have a thread about it or an open thread.

The question was about Dobbs, and I mentioned this nirther stuff isn't the first time Dobbs has gone off the rails. His history of coverage involving illegal iimmigration has also featured a lot of wackiness. Anyone interested enough in Dobbs can check that out, if so inclined.

My answer was about Dobbs. What I posted describes him!
people that are anti illegal immigration and although not "miltia types" supported their attempt to be a presence at the border

He is that type of person, unless you have info that he has gone to the border and taken up arms!

336 LGoPs  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:09:11pm

re: #304 sattv4u2

Asianist!

//

I like euthanasia. I also like the oldinasia...

337 wahabicorridor  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:09:16pm

re: #320 albusteve


booga booga!...that's pretty funny...are the Border Patrol extremist militia types?...everybody is an extremist, or a racist, or a kook that disagrees with you...we are concerned Americans


Actually, we're beginning to hear some pretty horrific stories from our farmers in upstate NY about the Border Patrol. One family was being visited by the Mexican family that's worked for them for years. They take their vacations with the farmer sometimes because they like Lake Ontario in the summer. The father is a naturalized citizen, the rest of the family were here on valid visas.

Border Patrol picked them all up - refused to look at their papers - locked them up until the farmer could get a lawyer (overnight) when they had to let them go.

Letters starting appearing in the local paper saying things like 'tell this people to go back where they belong', etc.

They were written by the Border Patrol agents.

We've had nightmare problems with ICE. Now with expanded Border Patrol, I think they're not vetting their hires very well.

338 Dianna  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:09:24pm

All right, insanity is blooming. People can't spell, don't know the most basic elements of grammar, and have no concept of how to construct an argument.

I know, because I work in nonprofit world.

You may think that doesn't follow, but it does.

339 quiet man  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:09:31pm

re: #330 michaelasher
Obama's Birth certificate is the only thing about him I believe is true. After that, it gets so very fuzzy,,,

340 Pawn of the Oppressor  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:09:33pm

In other news, 58% of the GOP believes Hawaii is where Jesus used to ride dinosaurs.

341 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:09:47pm

re: #333 Big Steve

Does anyone have a good theory on how to make a kook movement disappear?

Yes, eliminate the internet.

342 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:09:47pm

re: #333 Big Steve

Does anyone have a good theory on how to make a kook movement disappear? I know that in real science, while we all try to believe that rational people change their minds when a better theory comes around; what really happens is the adherents to the old theory never change they just just become dessicated old professors railing away and slowly losing grad students until they die and are not replaced. In most cases, kook movements are fed by publicity and die when the publicity goes away. I, for one, believe that comedy does a great job at killing kook movements by mocking them into marginality.

I dunno. Does anyone have a shitload of Happy Fun Balls lying aorund ?

343 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:10:04pm

Just out of curiosity - Charles...anyone - where this poll was taken?

344 VioletTiger  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:10:23pm

re: #331 Cattt

Can't get youtube at work--no streaming anything.

345 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:10:53pm

re: #338 Dianna

All right, insanity is blooming. People can't spell, don't know the most basic elements of grammar, and have no concept of how to construct an argument.

I know, because I work in nonprofit world.

You may think that doesn't follow, but it does.

Aw, hell.
You're talking about me, aren't you?

346 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:11:34pm

re: #338 Dianna

All right, insanity is blooming. People can't spell, don't know the most basic elements of grammar, and have no concept of how to construct an argument.

I know, because I work in nonprofit world.

You may think that doesn't follow, but it does.

Nonprofit is an oxymoron.

347 quiet man  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:11:50pm

re: #343 aboo-Hoo-Hoo
Shocker poll from Kos/Research2000 today

348 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:12:11pm

re: #329 iceweasel

I'm not interested in having a debate about immigration until we have a thread about it or an open thread.

The question was about Dobbs, and I mentioned this nirther stuff isn't the first time Dobbs has gone off the rails. His history of coverage involving illegal iimmigration has also featured a lot of wackiness. Anyone interested enough in Dobbs can check that out, if so inclined.

well I'm certainly glad you changed wording there...now if you reconsider "Dobbs going off the rails"...that's an entirely extremist statement...he's a good American trying to help sort out a very serious problem...once you pay attention you will notice

349 Wendya  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:12:17pm

re: #330 michaelasher

Birth-cert controversy is about Obama honesty, not where he was born

From the article:

In any event, even if you were of a mind to indulge the Kenyan-birth fantasy, stop, count to ten, and think: Hillary Clinton. Is there any chance on God’s green earth that, if Obama were not qualified to be president, the Clinton machine would have failed to get that information out?

Exactly.

350 vxbush  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:12:23pm

re: #338 Dianna

All right, insanity is blooming. People can't spell, don't know the most basic elements of grammar, and have no concept of how to construct an argument.

I know, because I work in nonprofit world.

You may think that doesn't follow, but it does.

Actually, it makes perfect sense.

351 opnion  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:12:50pm

re: #301 iceweasel

Right, Dobbs has a history of pandering to the extremist militia types who oppose illegal immigration. (I'm not referring to normal people who are merely anti-illegal immigration.)

Got ya.

352 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:12:59pm

re: #333 Big Steve

Does anyone have a good theory on how to make a kook movement disappear?

I, for one, believe that comedy does a great job at killing kook movements by mocking them into marginality.

Agree. These claims should be getting publicity in the context of either being destroyed, or mocked to death. They should be marginalised, and the GOP ought to be making it clear that these kooks aren't welcome and don't represent the party at all.

353 quiet man  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:13:33pm

The Daily Kos that is...

Not the most accurate of polls previously.

354 Wendya  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:13:46pm

re: #333 Big Steve

Does anyone have a good theory on how to make a kook movement disappear?


Something else inevitably takes its place. It will fall away or morph into something else much like the global cooling and overpopulation kooks from several decades ago.

355 HippieforLife  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:14:36pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Totally OT:
Are you by any chance a Seattle Mariner's fan?

356 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:15:30pm

re: #337 wahabicorridor

Actually, we're beginning to hear some pretty horrific stories from our farmers in upstate NY about the Border Patrol. One family was being visited by the Mexican family that's worked for them for years. They take their vacations with the farmer sometimes because they like Lake Ontario in the summer. The father is a naturalized citizen, the rest of the family were here on valid visas.

Border Patrol picked them all up - refused to look at their papers - locked them up until the farmer could get a lawyer (overnight) when they had to let them go.

Letters starting appearing in the local paper saying things like 'tell this people to go back where they belong', etc.

They were written by the Border Patrol agents.

We've had nightmare problems with ICE. Now with expanded Border Patrol, I think they're not vetting their hires very well.

that's what happens when a very bad problem is ignored...people are tired of illegal immigrants because it has never been dealt with properly...in Tucson they probably would have gunned down the Border patrol

357 Syrah  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:15:36pm

re: #333 Big Steve

Does anyone have a good theory on how to make a kook movement disappear? I know that in real science, while we all try to believe that rational people change their minds when a better theory comes around; what really happens is the adherents to the old theory never change they just just become dessicated old professors railing away and slowly losing grad students until they die and are not replaced. In most cases, kook movements are fed by publicity and die when the publicity goes away. I, for one, believe that comedy does a great job at killing kook movements by mocking them into marginality.

Mockery and ridicule are good tools.

The Internet Age has made ostracization less effective.

358 Flyovercountry  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:15:36pm

re: #330 michaelasher

Ther are so many things which point to Obama's dishonesty, like his out right lies for instance, that we don't need a made up controversy. This rhetoric is not helpful, it is lunacy. He couldn't have gotten on the ballot anywhere without the proper I.D. It is part of the process. This is downright embarrasing. Not that I believe it will sway future elections, I don't want my liberal family associating me with this psychotic behavior. Please desist from this. Either that, or wear a soup pot on your head to protect you from the Liberal mind control death ray that is also out there.

359 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:15:41pm

BBC NEWS - CASPER THE COMMUTER CAT

Youtube Video
360 Dianna  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:15:46pm

re: #346 Naso Tang

Nonprofit is an oxymoron.

Indeed.

How about, "deliberate nonprofit"?

361 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:16:18pm

re: #334 calcajun

I saw no tag. I make no assumptions.

Sorry, I guess I'm the one who assumed.

362 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:16:21pm

re: #337 wahabicorridor

And on the other end of the spectrum we have border towns in Texas and Arizona where there are shootings, killings and other violent crimes daily!

363 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:16:25pm

re: #338 Dianna

All right, insanity is blooming. People can't spell, don't know the most basic elements of grammar, and have no concept of how to construct an argument.

I know, because I work in nonprofit world.

You may think that doesn't follow, but it does.

quit glaring at me...

364 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:16:38pm

re: #341 Naso Tang

Yes, eliminate the internet.

Nah, the loons existed before the internet. The internet only accelerates and facilitates stupid having an impact.

365 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:16:48pm
366 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:17:54pm
367 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:17:55pm

re: #365 AreaMan

Are you trying to lose your account, or are you just the worst satirist ever?

368 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:18:04pm

re: #330 michaelasher

Birth-cert controversy is about Obama honesty, not where he was born

A pretty lame attempt to put lipstick on a pig, if you ask me. Claiming that the Birthers reveal some deeper truth about Barack Obama, and how people perceive him, is ridiculous. It reveals that the Birthers are crazy, end of story.

McCarthy is spinning like a centrifuge in that one. Even gets in the Sekrit Muslim corollary to the Nirth Theory.

369 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:18:25pm

re: #366 buzzsawmonkey

I have no idea what you're trying to say, but it sounds both snotty and dumb.

The almost immposible double strike!

370 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:18:34pm

re: #360 Dianna

Indeed.

How about, "deliberate nonprofit"?

The god of nonprofit is the IRS, nobody else. Ask the Scientoligists if in doubt.

371 ihateronpaul  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:19:34pm

hm, I will pretend to be a shocked that a majority of the GOP subscribes to an inherently racist conspiracy theory.

372 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:19:41pm

re: #365 AreaMan

Bitez moi.

373 ihateronpaul  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:19:54pm

and I never knew people liked Joe biden so much!

374 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:20:03pm

re: #359 Killgore Trout

BBC NEWS - CASPER THE COMMUTER CAT



New meaning to the term "fluff piece". Nice.

375 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:20:36pm

re: #372 Charles

Bitez moi.

FWENSH!

376 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:20:46pm
377 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:21:22pm

re: #370 Naso Tang

The god of nonprofit is the IRS, nobody else. Ask the Scientoligists if in doubt.

They are a Religion!!
/ why is Tom Cruise hopping on my couch?

378 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:21:26pm

re: #371 ihateronpaul

hm, I will pretend to be a shocked that a majority of the GOP subscribes to an inherently racist conspiracy theory.

Conspiracy theory ,, CHECK
Inherently racist,,, Not So Much

Heed your own words from your profile, please

I can't stand people who sidetrack debate.

379 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:21:29pm

re: #375 albusteve

FWENSH!

Where's OldLineTexan?
Fwensh makes him swoon.

380 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:21:43pm

re: #376 buzzsawmonkey

Re #365: As I said, you cannot keep the moth from the flame.

ouche moi!

381 Dianna  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:22:07pm

re: #370 Naso Tang

The god of nonprofit is the IRS, nobody else. Ask the Scientoligists if in doubt.

*Wince.*

Got me. It's true, in a weird sort of way.

But remember, I'm on the funding side of the equation. The material that crosses my desk would make you laugh, until you started thinking about what it means, and who writes this stuff.

Then, no one would hear your screams.

382 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:22:29pm

re: #364 Athos

Nah, the loons existed before the internet. The internet only accelerates and facilitates stupid having an impact.

But that is the point. In the old days they would spend a few days in the stockade in the village square, if they lived that long. That may not have been good news for the likes of Newtons, but is was a good filter, just as the overall sensibility of people looking other people in the eye is a good filter for assholes.

383 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:22:29pm

re: #355 HippieforLife

Totally OT:
Are you by any chance a Seattle Mariner's fan?

Is that the sport with the stick or the one with the oval ball?
/No, not a sports guy

384 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:23:02pm

re: #377 Cannadian Club Akbar
My oops..

385 redstateredneck  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:23:05pm

And here I thought that all you ignorant Americans could say was,
"Merci beaucoup".

386 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:23:34pm

Ok, you guys gotta see this...
World Science Festival 2009: Bobby McFerrin Demonstrates the Power of the Pentatonic Scale

Vimeo
387 vxbush  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:24:07pm

re: #385 redstateredneck

And here I thought that all you ignorant Americans could say was,
"Merci beaucoup".

Nah. We say murky buck cups.

388 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:24:42pm

re: #386 Killgore Trout

SCIENCE!

389 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:24:44pm

re: #383 Killgore Trout

Is that the sport with the stick or the one with the oval ball?
/No, not a sports guy

He said Mariner. It's a fishing show.
/

390 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:24:46pm

re: #376 buzzsawmonkey

Re #365: As I said, you cannot keep the moth from the flame.

OOOH - What a pretty blue ligh...ZAP..SIZZLE!

391 J.S.  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:24:57pm

At this rate, I suspect, it will become increasingly difficult for someone to self-identify as "Republican." I don't call myself a Republican (nor, for that matter a conservative.) Independent, I guess...

392 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:25:22pm

I have no trouble at all believing these numbers, by the way. Try reading any thread at Hot Air (just to name one rightie blog) on this issue. And let's not even mention Free Republic.

At any blog where the subject is mentioned, Nirthers turn out in droves. They even continue popping up at LGF long after I've made it exceedingly clear that I won't tolerate Nirther promos here.

393 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:25:23pm

re: #389 Cannadian Club Akbar

He said Mariner. It's a fishing show.
/

He also said Seattle,,, could be a food show about coffee!

394 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:25:45pm

re: #347 quiet man

Shocker poll from Kos/Research2000 today

Yea, but where? Kos's site?

395 filetandrelease  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:25:57pm

Being a southerner, that one hurt.

396 jcm  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:26:20pm

Porkulus.
Crap-n-Fraud.
Health care.
Cash for clunkers.
etc... Ad Nauseam.

or...

Obama is not a citizen, I have no proof but I know it.

Yep, that's the way to win a national debate on the direction of the country.

397 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:26:44pm

re: #386 Killgore Trout

Ok, you guys gotta see this...
World Science Festival 2009: Bobby McFerrin Demonstrates the Power of the Pentatonic Scale


that was fun...thanks

398 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:26:54pm

re: #393 sattv4u2

He also said Seattle,,, could be a food show about coffee!

Coffee Mongers?

399 Syrah  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:27:05pm

Off to work, back in 12.

Note to sport fisherman.

The really big ships have the right-off-way no matter what the little booklets say. Physics trumps everything else.

400 jcm  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:27:48pm

Caution Zombie Stripper

*SFW*

401 Dianna  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:27:52pm

re: #386 Killgore Trout

Fantastic!

I loved the demonstration that he didn't even have to explain the sequence when he jumped to a new note he hadn't already sung!

402 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:28:10pm

re: #337 wahabicorridor

They're burying a slain agent in El Centro California today. Got shot up by the cowards smuggling the illegals in from Baja. I've got no problems with the Border Patrol down here on the Mexican border, the vast majority of which are brave, courageous, and live up to the ethics I expect of them.

403 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:28:19pm
404 wahabicorridor  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:28:35pm

re: #362 sattv4u2

And on the other end of the spectrum we have border towns in Texas and Arizona where there are shootings, killings and other violent crimes daily!

I KNOW!! It's SO frustrating.

The thing is, in most of the farming communities we dill with - in the Northeast - the same people come every year - or in the case of dairy farms, have been here for years. Everyone knows them. And they've been coming for so long, that if they weren't legal in the beginning, they are now.

We had one dairy farmer last winter who was raided by ICE. Took all his hands, all legal. He couldn't milk all the cows by himself and by the time his help were released he had lost 40 head.

405 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:29:06pm
406 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:29:07pm

re: #392 Charles

No different when the discussion revolved around Laup Nor, or the NAU / Amero, or even Troofers - the conspiracists would swarm in an effort to shout / swamp the opposition.

Regardless of the evidence or the cogent arguments - the conspiracists couldn't and wouldn't budge from their position. None of the examples ever matched their moving definition of being sufficient proof to sway them - even when it was exactly what they demanded.

Bottom line - ego / ideology trumped logical thought.

407 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:30:09pm

re: #396 jcm

You would think that simple choice would have a far greater impact on the fringe...but then if it did, they wouldn't be the fringe.

408 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:30:25pm

re: #382 Naso Tang

But that is the point. In the old days they would spend a few days in the stockade in the village square, if they lived that long. That may not have been good news for the likes of , but is was a good filter, just as the overall sensibility of people looking other people in the eye is a good filter for assholes.

But unfortuately Syrah is right that this doesn't work in the internet age. Now no matter how extreme or bizarre or unusual or disgusting your beliefs are, you can find a community to support and encourage you in them.

The best example of this is paedophiles. People who would have harboured a sick fantasy which they were deeply ashamed of, and would never have acted on, can now find a community that will support and encourage them and tell them they're not alone. Then they'll be trading images and/or acting on those desires-- and it's partly because they've gradually had their sense of what's right and what's wrong eroded by complete immersion in a community that tells them what they want to hear-- that it's okay.

409 redstateredneck  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:30:31pm

re: #395 filetandrelease

Being a southerner, that one hurt.

Safety in numbers. There are a lot of us.

410 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:31:23pm

re: #388 sattv4u2

SCIENCE!

That's a completely un-coached audience. I saw him give the same demonstration about 10 years ago. It's amazing.

411 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:31:34pm

re: #406 Athos

From what I can see, it's much more widespread than 9/11 Trooferism ever was. I never saw this many people promoting Trooferism.

412 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:31:42pm

In just a few short years we've gone from question authority to question logic and reasoning.

No amount of evidence will be sufficient for these people, many of whom are in the South and who also happen to be Republican.

Funny, but as noted on the dead thread, the number of stories about nirtherism since President Obama took office and the number prior to election day is quite interesting. The media didn't think much of the story then, but now? That's a totally different story. Now, they think they can use the issue to bludgeon the GOP and to whack the GOP at a moment when Democrats are so vulnerable on the economy, unemployment, foreign policy, and pretty much everything else. Had they done their job and investigated the matter fully prior to election day, we might not be in this predicament. Of course, that would have meant investigating Democrats' claims on Obama - primarily since it was Hillary's supporters (aka Democrats questioning his birth in Hawaii; Phil Berg anyone?).

The media needs to shoulder some of the blame here - but the crazy stupid resides with those GOPers who pursue this nonsense with not a shred of evidence that Obama is anything but a US citizen.

If anything these nirthers are even more insane than the BDS nonsense ever was. Back in the wake of 2000's botched Florida election, even the media was forced to concede that Bush won on the recounts. Now?

413 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:31:44pm

re: #386 Killgore Trout

He really plays the audience.

414 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:31:55pm

re: #405 buzzsawmonkey

Oh, that undead undulation...

I can't imagine that being very easy when rigormortis sets in...

415 Erik The Red  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:32:11pm

re: #409 redstateredneck

Safety in numbers. There are a lot of us.

I am now a Floridian. What does that make me?

416 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:32:41pm

re: #386 Killgore Trout

I've seen him do that routine several times -- he doesn't mention it, but some audiences are better at it than others.

417 wahabicorridor  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:32:49pm

re: #402 CyanSnowHawk

They're burying a slain agent in El Centro California today. Got shot up by the cowards smuggling the illegals in from Baja. I've got no problems with the Border Patrol down here on the Mexican border, the vast majority of which are brave, courageous, and live up to the ethics I expect of them.

Yeah, I'm aware of that case. Left 2 kids behind, I believe. Have they made any aressts?

When I think about the different experiences we have compared with the crap the people and agents in the southwest have to put up with, I think at least part of the problem may be what incentives the agents are given. In TX and AZ they've got tons of work to do. Not so much if your beat is say, Oswego, NY.

I'm guessing quotas.

418 calcajun  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:33:07pm

re: #395 filetandrelease

I feel your pain. Again, Deep South is an oxymoron.

419 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:33:13pm
420 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:33:18pm

re: #415 Erik The Red

I am now a Floridian. What does that make me?

old and sweaty

421 vxbush  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:33:38pm

re: #416 Charles

I've seen him do that routine several times -- he doesn't mention it, but some audiences are better at it than others.

Yeah, I bet a class of music majors would be hysterical. How many would be doing various harmonies?

422 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:33:56pm

re: #411 Charles

Come to NYC and hang around Ground Zero. You'd be surprised and shocked and dismayed all at once about that. I bump into people pushing Trooferism all the time here in NYC. And those are people who should know better.

423 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:33:56pm

re: #411 Charles

From what I can see, it's much more widespread than 9/11 Trooferism ever was. I never saw this many people promoting Trooferism.

Here go the downdings, but I kinda blame the tea partyers.

424 redstateredneck  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:34:07pm

re: #415 Erik The Red

I am now a Floridian. What does that make me?

Hello, weren't you in South Africa before? You're a Southerner, of course!

425 wahabicorridor  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:34:07pm

gotta hop.

426 irongrampa  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:34:26pm

re: #411 Charles

I would bet--and this IS NOT a defense of the subject--that it's overall much more believeable than the 9-11 conspiracy crap.
Just my personal observation.

427 calcajun  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:34:43pm

re: #420 albusteve

old and sweaty

Gator bait.

428 Erik The Red  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:34:51pm

re: #420 albusteve

old and sweaty

ROTF. You can clean the beer off my laptop, while I change my shirt.

429 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:34:52pm

re: #418 calcajun

I feel your pain. Again, Deep South is an oxymoron.

That's not what she said...

/i know, i know... "shut up, you!"

430 Dianna  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:34:57pm

re: #400 jcm

Caution Zombie Stripper

*SFW*

On the Great Highway, there used to be a sign that was supposed to say "Prepare to Stop", but the bottom line ("to Stop") was gone. So it used to flash, forebodingly:

PREPARE PREPARE PREPARE

I loved it.

431 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:35:14pm

re: #410 Killgore Trout

That's a completely un-coached audience. I saw him give the same demonstration about 10 years ago. It's amazing.

I've seen it before also. Sadly, not live. I would love to see the joy in peoples (audience) faces as it's happening

432 calcajun  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:35:15pm

re: #415 Erik The Red

I am now a Floridian. What does that make me?

No-- you're the Gator bait.

433 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:35:48pm

re: #417 wahabicorridor

Yeah, I'm aware of that case. Left 2 kids behind, I believe. Have they made any aressts?

A guy in Mexico was arrested with a Border Patrol pistol in his possession.

434 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:36:02pm

re: #392 Charles

I have no trouble at all believing these numbers, by the way. Try reading any thread at Hot Air (just to name one rightie blog) on this issue. And let's not even mention Free Republic.

At any blog where the subject is mentioned, Nirthers turn out in droves. They even continue popping up at LGF long after I've made it exceedingly clear that I won't tolerate Nirther promos here.

But what if Vince did an infomercial? Would it be okay if it was inadvertently funny?

/You're gonna love that they're nuts!

435 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:36:05pm

re: #415 Erik The Red

I am now a Floridian. What does that make me?


Erik The Redneck.

436 Dianna  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:36:09pm

re: #416 Charles

I've seen him do that routine -- he doesn't mention it, but some audiences are better at it than others.

Kids are great. People (non-musicians, anyway) past about 50 aren't.

At least in the US and Europe. I don't remember ever seeing a clip of him doing this is in Asia?

437 Catttt  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:36:12pm

Woot! The American Idol tour band (MFB - just ask me what it stands for) is having a video chat this afternoon! It's the third one. Yes, I am a fangirl, but it's fun. The band needs love too.

438 Erik The Red  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:36:14pm

re: #424 redstateredneck

Hello, weren't you in South Africa before? You're a Southerner, of course!

Yeah, but was born in Cleveland

439 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:36:30pm

re: #415 Erik The Red

I am now a Floridian. What does that make me?

At risk of getting run over if you get in the way of the early bird special rush!

440 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:36:33pm

re: #392 Charles

I have no trouble at all believing these numbers, by the way. Try reading any thread at Hot Air (just to name one rightie blog) on this issue. And let's not even mention Free Republic.

To Ed and AP's credit, though, they completely denounce the crazy nirtherism. It's a shame a good percentage of their readers couldn't find a clue with both hands and a flashlight.

441 Lincolntf  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:37:12pm

Wherever he's from, they don't teach Math.
That's all that matters to me.

442 jcm  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:37:12pm

re: #416 Charles

I've seen him do that routine several times -- he doesn't mention it, but some audiences are better at it than others.



Rasmussen on Trooferism...

Democrats in America are evenly divided on the question of whether George W. Bush knew about the 9/11 terrorist attacks in advance. Thirty-five percent (35%) of Democrats believe he did know, 39% say he did not know, and 26% are not sure.

Lots of bad craziness loose. Troofers, nirthers, and assorted flakes and nuts.

443 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:37:19pm

re: #415 Erik The Red

I am now a Floridian. What does that make me?

Someone who complains when the temperatures drop to 60? That's what my future mother-in-law does...

444 avanti  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:37:33pm

re: #368 Charles

A pretty lame attempt to put lipstick on a pig, if you ask me.


Charles, why the gratuitous slam at Palin ? /s

445 calcajun  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:37:50pm

re: #415 Erik The Red

I am now a Floridian. What does that make me?

Prime date meat at The Villages.

446 filetandrelease  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:37:58pm

John Clark was here again today, a radio talk show host on XM at night, he is a staunch nirther who claims he is trying to save the republican party, the country or what ever. My efforts to explain to him that he is actually helping to destroy the Republican party were in vain, again. We didn't have a warm and fuzzy today. Nirthers are beyond reason and tend to have a proclivity towards conspiracies.

447 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:38:15pm

re: #427 calcajun

Gator bait.

I have pretty much always enjoyed visiting Florida...but the loss of orange groves and the rapid development of central Florida was heart breaking...I love the parks and the Panhandle and NW beaches are world class imo

448 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:38:52pm

re: #411 Charles

When not online - I see more Troofers than nirthers...but that does change when online...and the poll numbers do no surprise me given the numbers that embrace other fringe positions.

I wonder if there is something in this progression of size and scope in the willingness to accept these conspiracy theories - perhaps related and connected to frustration or linkages to the Paulian movement as Buzzsawmonkey speculated?

449 opnion  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:39:02pm

re: #324 albusteve

or worse...they have killed Honduran and Salvadoran refugees

I have heard that.

450 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:39:05pm

re: #411 Charles

From what I can see, it's much more widespread than 9/11 Trooferism ever was. I never saw this many people promoting Trooferism.

The bar to believe the troofer claims was much higher. Can't use much science to debunk the Nirther crap.

451 calcajun  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:39:14pm

re: #447 albusteve

I have pretty much always enjoyed visiting Florida...but the loss of orange groves and the rapid development of central Florida was heart breaking...I love the parks and the Panhandle and NW beaches are world class imo

Much better than here in So Cal. And that warm water. I miss my summers in Panama City Beach and Destin.

452 Macker  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:39:40pm

re: #372 Charles

Bitez Mordez moi.

There, fixed that for ya!

/Systran

453 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:39:43pm

re: #411 Charles

From what I can see, it's much more widespread than 9/11 Trooferism ever was. I never saw this many people promoting Trooferism.

Not only that, but Trooferism was not talked about in the media as if there 'might be something to it'. There weren't ten congresspeople sponsering a bill asking Bush to make a statement that he had nothing to do with 9/11. There weren't people on CNN saying that 'if only Bush would release the evidence' there wouldn't be a problem. No article in the New Republic by a lefty-analogue of Andy McCarthy suggesting that Trooferism showed anything about George Bush. No video of elected Dems literally running from the camera, rather than state clearly "I don't believe GWB attacked America".

No wonder there are more nirthers than troofers.

454 Son of the Black Dog  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:40:27pm

re: #435 Cannadian Club Akbar

Erik The Redneck.

But only if he lives in the northern part of the state.

455 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:40:27pm
456 HippieforLife  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:40:38pm

re: #383 Killgore Trout

Stick. Thanks!

457 redstateredneck  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:40:40pm

re: #435 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ding worthy.
:D

458 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:41:15pm

re: #415 Erik The Red

I am now a Floridian. What does that make me?

It means you live on America's phallus.

459 Son of the Black Dog  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:41:17pm

re: #454 Son of the Black Dog

But only if he lives in the northern part of the state.

Otherwise he would be Erik the transplanted Yankee.

460 redstateredneck  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:41:27pm

re: #438 Erik The Red

Yeah, but was born in Cleveland

Then you're southern by the grace of God.

461 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:41:50pm

re: #381 Dianna

*Wince.*

Got me. It's true, in a weird sort of way.

But remember, I'm on the funding side of the equation. The material that crosses my desk would make you laugh, until you started thinking about what it means, and who writes this stuff.

Then, no one would hear your screams.

It is sometimes called socialism, sometime CYA.

463 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:41:59pm

re: #453 iceweasel

No, there were hundreds of "scientists" demanding yet another investigation into the 9/11 attacks. There were demands for impeachment on Bush's involvement (war crimes, etc.). The permutations of trooferism nuttiness is mind boggling.

And there are members of Congress who do question the official report on the 9/11 attacks. Plenty of people in the media and politics questioned Bush's actions during the 9/11 attacks and thereafter.

464 michaelasher  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:42:03pm

re: #368 Charles
re: #368 Charles

A pretty lame attempt to put lipstick on a pig, if you ask me. Claiming that the Birthers reveal some deeper truth about Barack Obama, and how people perceive him, is ridiculous. It reveals that the Birthers are crazy, end of story.

McCarthy is spinning like a centrifuge in that one. Even gets in the Sekrit Muslim corollary to the Nirth Theory.


A candidate who dissembles as much as Obama will inspire endless speculation and suspicion about everything he says and does. While Nirthers are crazy, Obama certainly lit the fuse. That's McCarthy's point which I think is right on.

465 filetandrelease  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:42:28pm

re: #409 redstateredneck

That pole suggest quite a few stereotypes. Something I try and deny when the opportunity presents itself.

466 redstateredneck  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:42:53pm

re: #447 albusteve

NW beaches are world class imo


Redneck Riviera

467 filetandrelease  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:43:21pm

re: #447 albusteve

Very sad to see my state go all micky mouse.

468 Erik The Red  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:43:34pm

re: #460 redstateredneck

Then you're southern by the grace of God.

Those stupid FB quiz's all say I am a Redneck. I am starting to believe I just may be. :)

469 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:43:40pm

re: #450 CyanSnowHawk

The bar to believe the troofer claims was much higher. Can't use much science to debunk the Nirther crap.

Don't need science to debunk nirtherism - just the copy of the Certification of Live Birth. Should be a far lower bar. It isn't, which tells me that ODS is real.

470 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:43:41pm

re: #463 lawhawk


And there are members of Congress who do question the official report on the 9/11 attacks. Plenty of people in the media and politics questioned Bush's actions during the 9/11 attacks and thereafter.

Questioning his actions, or being critical of them, doesn't = troofer.

471 J.S.  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:43:43pm

re: #411 Charles

(up here in Canada, it seems to be reversed -- I believe there was much, much more 9/11 Trooferism, expressed everywhere (including CBC, etc.); the Birth Certificate thing? -- hardly any mention whatsoever...(other than mockery...which I believe will soon be feeding into the standard anti-American refrains..along with the "Americans are all racists!" meme.) Oh well.

472 Catttt  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:43:48pm

re: #430 Dianna

On the Great Highway, there used to be a sign that was supposed to say "Prepare to Stop", but the bottom line ("to Stop") was gone. So it used to flash, forebodingly:

PREPARE PREPARE PREPARE

I loved it.

Sample from Engrish. :D

473 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:43:54pm

re: #460 redstateredneck

Then you're southern by the grace of God.

And a ding back atchya fer dat:)

474 jcm  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:44:10pm

re: #444 avanti

Charles, why the gratuitous slam at Palin ? /s

I thought it was a slap at Obama!

Youtube Video

;-P

475 Macker  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:44:35pm

Oh, to be a Fly On The Wall of the White House right about now...

476 Lincolntf  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:44:54pm

re: #453 iceweasel

Not exactly the same, but in MA we had a Rep. Meehan who said that Bush was creating a "photo-op" when the Secret Service decided that moving him during the 9/11 attacks was the wise course of action.
It's notable that Meehan later scurried out of the House Building when a bomb threat came in during the aftermath. No word if it that was kust a photo-op.
Trooferism is alive and well among even "mainstream" Dems. They'll usually couch it with stuff like "...but the Saudi's were his friends..."

477 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:44:56pm

re: #415 Erik The Red

I am now a Floridian. What does that make me?

Wait a while. You will know. :=)

478 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:45:03pm

for re: #453 iceweasel

There weren't ten congresspeople sponsering a bill asking Bush to make a statement that he had nothing to do with 9/11.

Start with Cynthia McKinney and start counting!

Youtube Video
479 redstateredneck  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:45:28pm

re: #465 filetandrelease

That pole suggest quite a few stereotypes. Something I try and deny when the opportunity presents itself.

Why do you think my nic is redstateredneck? If I'm going to be charactarized as one, I may as well just call myself one.

480 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:45:43pm

re: #468 Erik The Red

Those stupid FB quiz's all say I am a Redneck. I am starting to believe I just may be. :)

I'll get you a flannel shirt and a John Deere hat for Christmas.

481 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:45:50pm

re: #475 Macker

Oh, to be a Fly On The Wall of the White House right about now...

The Won would slap you down !

482 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:46:02pm

re: #478 sattv4u2



There weren't ten congresspeople sponsering a bill asking Bush to make a statement that he had nothing to do with 9/11.

Start with Cynthia McKinney and start counting!


[Video]

Well, I consider McKinney to be as bad as the most batshit crazy on the GOP side. :)

483 debutaunt  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:46:11pm

re: #24 turn

7% out west here - a relatively nirth free zone.

We have a better handle on Hawaii being an actual state.

484 redstateredneck  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:46:30pm

re: #473 Cannadian Club Akbar

And a ding back atchya fer dat:)

Now that we've exchanged dings, shall we share a cigarette?
;-)

485 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:46:35pm

re: #463 lawhawk

gmta ,,, see 478

486 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:47:05pm

re: #466 redstateredneck

Redneck Riviera

it's a lot of fun down there, FloraBama and all that...I always liked the Gulf...great beaches, and food and people...I got a bit of a southern streak in me

487 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:47:13pm

re: #451 calcajun

Much better than here in So Cal. And that warm water. I miss my summers in Panama City Beach and Destin.

Unless you like waves bigger than ankle-slappers. I never did understand how Ron Jon in Daytona Beach was the Worlds Biggest Surf Shop. What's the point?

488 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:47:15pm

re: #482 iceweasel

Well, I consider McKinney to be as bad as the most batshit crazy on the GOP side. :)

She was but just one, As LawHawk and I have both pointed out, there were more ,

489 J.S.  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:47:31pm

Trooferism in Canada, Wiki:

A September 2008 Angus Reid poll showed that 39% of respondents either disagree or are unsure that Al Qaeda carried out the attacks. About a third of those surveyed believed the United States Government allowed the attacks to happen and 16% believe the U. S. government made the attacks happen.
490 albusteve  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:47:36pm

re: #467 filetandrelease

Very sad to see my state go all micky mouse.

I'm a big Disney fan

491 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:47:37pm

re: #468 Erik The Red

Those stupid FB quiz's all say I am a Redneck. I am starting to believe I just may be. :)

Pull up your shirt sleeve.

/

492 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:47:46pm

re: #482 iceweasel

Well, I consider McKinney to be as bad as the most batshit crazy on the GOP side. :)

I should rephrase. She might actually be the craziest member ever on any side..

493 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:48:22pm

re: #492 iceweasel

I should rephrase. She might actually be the craziest member ever on any side..

To be voted into office.

494 Son of the Black Dog  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:48:24pm

re: #482 iceweasel

Well, I consider McKinney to be as bad as the most batshit crazy on the GOP side. :)

No, Cynthia McKinney is far more crazy than any Republican.
And she has plenty of company on the Democrat side.

495 Erik The Red  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:48:35pm

re: #491 SasquatchOnSteroids

Pull up your shirt sleeve.

/

What? Shirts have sleeves?

496 Macker  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:48:59pm

re: #489 J.S.

And how would Canadians feel if, next time, the Islamofascists took out the CN Tower?

497 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:49:03pm

re: #333 Big Steve

Does anyone have a good theory on how to make a kook movement disappear? I know that in real science, while we all try to believe that rational people change their minds when a better theory comes around; what really happens is the adherents to the old theory never change they just just become dessicated old professors railing away and slowly losing grad students until they die and are not replaced. In most cases, kook movements are fed by publicity and die when the publicity goes away. I, for one, believe that comedy does a great job at killing kook movements by mocking them into marginality.

They never go away. People still think there was a conspiracy with the Kennedy assassination. They think the moon landings were faked. They believe Roswell was an alien UFO crash. They think a wind-eroded mesa in the Cydonia Mensae on Mars that looks like a face under certain lighting conditions is evidence of a dead civilization on Mars. People still think Bush stole the election in 2000. Troofers aren't going away. Nirthers are just another line in a long line of kooks.

If people are paranoid-minded and fall into conspiracy theories, it is next to impossible to talk sense into them.

498 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:49:24pm

re: #495 Erik The Red

What? Shirts have sleeves?

No, I just wanna see where your tan stops.

499 Catttt  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:49:29pm

Clean Blue Crap - you can never have enough

500 ladycatnip  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:49:43pm

Of course The Won doesn't have a valid birth certificate - he's an Enlightened Being and Light Worker. Enlightened Beings are not born, they just are.

501 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:49:48pm

re: #415 Erik The Red

I am now a Floridian. What does that make me?

And now it's time for rest as it's late, but as you like to travel I just came out of the internet dead zone from here.

Kvikkjokk

Go north next time, it's worth it.

nite.

502 BlueCanuck  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:50:11pm

re: #496 Macker

And how would Canadians feel if, next time, the Islamofascists took out the CN Tower?

THE AMERICANS DID IT OVER JEALOUSY OF OUR ENGINEERING!!!


///The troof is strong up here...

503 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:52:19pm

re: #469 Athos

Don't need science to debunk nirtherism - just the copy of the Certification of Live Birth. Should be a far lower bar. It isn't, which tells me that ODS is real.

This is all about 'Government' documents, so obviously the big bad scary 'Government' could write what they want on a document and call it 'official.'

Frankly I think that too many people followed the advice of those "Question Reality" bumper stickers that spoofed the "Question Authority" bumper stickers.

504 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:52:20pm

re: #502 BlueCanuck

You keel thread.

505 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:52:46pm

re: #488 sattv4u2

She was but just one, As LawHawk and I have both pointed out, there were more ,

Nirtherism has been mainstreamed in a way trooferism was not. Hence why there are more nirthers around than troofers.

506 Erik The Red  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:53:03pm

re: #501 Naso Tang

And now it's time for rest as it's late, but as you like to travel I just came out of the internet dead zone from here.

Kvikkjokk

Go north next time, it's worth it.

nite.

Never been to Sweden or Norway. May have to put that on my bucket list. Good Night.

507 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:53:18pm

re: #502 BlueCanuck

THE AMERICANS DID IT OVER JEALOUSY OF OUR ENGINEERING!!!


///The troof is strong up here...

Yea, that's it. And Hamilton is where the first phone call was made.
/no one will get it:)

508 jcm  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:53:20pm

re: #502 BlueCanuck

THE AMERICANS DID IT OVER JEALOUSY OF OUR ENGINEERING!!!

///The troof is strong up here...

The Avro Arrow was killed!

And that's not a conspiracy!

509 Flyers1974  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:53:22pm

re: #492 iceweasel

I should rephrase. She might actually be the craziest member ever on any side..

As with Dobbs, etc..., I wonder whether she's crazy or simply an opportunist. How are you IW?

510 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:53:26pm

re: #492 iceweasel

I should rephrase. She might actually be the craziest member ever on any side..

Cynthis McKinney
James Traficant
Dennis Kucinich
Tip Of The Iceberg

511 Lincolntf  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:53:28pm

re: #497 ArchangelMichael

I think that 99.9% of the kook movement is about simply finding an audience. The people who pretend that they are somehow "bringing to light" hidden connections to the kooks are actually the best sales tool the kooks have.
The kooks know it, the "debunkers" don't. So the kooks always win.

The kooks don't really care if you love them or hate them, the important part is that you listened (linked?) to them.
Internet 101, but people choose to forget it when it suits their purposes.

512 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:54:19pm
513 opnion  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:54:29pm

re: #463 lawhawk

No, there were hundreds of "scientists" demanding yet another investigation into the 9/11 attacks. There were demands for impeachment on Bush's involvement (war crimes, etc.). The permutations of trooferism nuttiness is mind boggling.

And there are members of Congress who do question the official report on the 9/11 attacks. Plenty of people in the media and politics questioned Bush's actions during the 9/11 attacks and thereafter.


Oh yeah & the Democrat Senior Senator from Illinois comparing our troops handling Jihadi prisoners to Nazis, gulag guards & Pol Pots. minions. A lot of nuttiness resides on the Left.
Durban's name may be Richard, but he will always be a Dick to me.

514 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:54:40pm

Nirfers, Troofers, and Taxers.

Send Help.

515 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:55:02pm
516 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:55:20pm

re: #467 filetandrelease

Very sad to see my state go all micky mouse.

You could do a lot worse. Disney is only reporting lower profits, not net losses.

517 Erik The Red  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:55:23pm

re: #510 sattv4u2

Cynthis McKinney
James Traficant
Dennis Kucinich
Nancy Polosi
Tip Of The Iceberg

518 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:55:31pm

re: #512 taxfreekiller

Some chance the Laup Nors are one and the same , nithers too, also.

Yup. See #423.

519 Van Helsing  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:55:43pm

re: #510 sattv4u2

Cynthis McKinney
James Traficant
Dennis Kucinich
Tip Of The Iceberg

Kerry (maybe not)
Murtha

520 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:55:44pm

re: #509 Flyers1974

As with Dobbs, etc..., I wonder whether she's crazy or simply an opportunist. How are you IW?

Hey flyers! pretty good, how are you?
I think McKinney really is crazy. Dobbs, maybe just a little unhinged on some issues. And an opportunist.
His nirther pandering hasn't been helping his ratings at all, so we'll see.

521 Racer X  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:55:45pm

re: #475 Macker

Oh, to be a Fly On The Wall of the White House right about now...

Careful, dude has wicked fast hands. He will snatch you right out of mid air and knock you silly.

522 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:56:16pm

re: #516 CyanSnowHawk

You could do a lot worse. Disney is only reporting lower profits, not net losses.

That's because parents are the slowest to cut back where their children are concerned. During the 80's recession, my parents still managed to find the money to take us to Disneyland.

523 opnion  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:56:36pm

re: #505 iceweasel

Nirtherism has been mainstreamed in a way trooferism was not. Hence why there are more nirthers around than troofers.

How do yuou know that?

524 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:56:43pm
525 SixDegrees  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:56:54pm

re: #411 Charles

From what I can see, it's much more widespread than 9/11 Trooferism ever was. I never saw this many people promoting Trooferism.

Depends where you hang out. I used to spend a fair amount of time over on the Mythbusters forum, and the place was crawling with troofers. I got them to institute an automatic ban on 911-themed posts, simply to avoid trivializing the event, but even then, and with diligent moderating, they kept coming in droves.

Not sure why that particular venue was so attractive to them; I think they were hoping to goad the producers into airing some of their bilge. But there were days when they would swamp the entire board.

The arguments promoted by both troofers and nirthers are identical, apart from content. Same logical fallacies, same paranoia, same illogic, same anger applied to anyone who disagrees. I think a lot of troofers have moved on to nirtherism of late, since it's getting the spotlight; what these people crave is attention, not validation, and they tend to migrate to whatever crackpot theory is hogging the spotlight.

526 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:57:04pm

OK folks, short day for me, y'all have a fantastic weekend, and hope to catch y'all on Monday!

Be safe!

527 calcajun  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:57:21pm

re: #467 filetandrelease

Well, it is a small world, after all..

///runs and ducks

528 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:57:26pm

re: #515 buzzsawmonkey

OTOH the name is so bad it is neutral, and that's a good thing for a center party.

529 Macker  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:57:43pm

re: #521 Racer X

Not if I fly at extreme (for the White House) altitude!

/snicker

530 gmsc  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:57:43pm

Actually, the way the question is phrased, it should be 100% for all demographics.

Do you believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States of America or not?

Yes, I believe that he was born in the United States of America or not. The mere fact of his existence implies he was born somewhere.

531 calcajun  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:58:01pm

re: #516 CyanSnowHawk

You could do a lot worse. Disney is only reporting lower profits, not net losses.

How the hell do people have the $ to pay for it?

532 drcordell  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:58:12pm

Can the sane portion of the GOP please defect and form a legitimate opposition party? It would do our nation a world of good.

533 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:58:15pm

Attempted deflection...
Eric Cantor Rips Chris Matthews, MSNBC, HuffPo, Liberal Bloggers For Inflating Birther Story

GOP Rep. Eric Cantor says he’s no birther — he has no questions about Obama’s citizenship, his spokesman tells me. But Cantor is placing the blame for the spread of birtherism not on its authors or on those politicians playing along with it, but rather on Chris Matthews, MSNBC, lefty news outlets and bloggers.

Asked for Cantor’s views on birtherism, his spokesman, Brad Dayspring, emailed me this:

“Mr. Cantor doesn’t question the President’s citizenship, but he has serious questions about the President’s push for government controlled healthcare, taxes on small business job creators, and a huge energy tax on middle class families. He finds it ironic that those most eager to talk about the President’s citizenship are in fact some of his biggest cheerleaders–whether it’s Chris Matthews or others on MSNBC, the Huffington Post, or camera toting liberal bloggers chasing people through the streets of Washington.”

Fail.

534 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:58:19pm

re: #517 Erik The Red

re: #519 Van Helsing

I'm talking CraZZEEE
Not opportunistic, or crumudgeonly, or eletist,,

Certifiable LOON,,, out there where the buses don;t run

535 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:58:33pm
536 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:58:35pm

re: #530 gmsc

The answer is "yes" in all cases.

(Jesuit education)

537 Shug  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:58:45pm

re: #442 jcm

Lots of bad craziness loose. Troofers, nirthers, and assorted flakes and nuts.

I would argue that the amount of craziness has not chaged significantly in the last 30 years.
In years past a nut was a lone nut. He sat in his basement, he occasionally stood alone in a park holding a sign. He wrote angry graffiti on toilet stalls. He bothered his bartender with conspiracy theories. He read conspiracy novels about the Grassy knoll or the Moon landings in a sound stage or the aliens in Roswell or the aliens building the pyramids or the chemtrails etc etc...

What has changed is the world wide web, giving these people a sense of community. Suddenly, they can anonymously converse with like minded freaks. They gain a sense of legitimacy with their websites and blogs and t-shirts.
They gather with fellows like Dylan Avery, Alex Jones, John Cotter. They protest the illimunati, the Bilderbergers, the New World Order. The Truther is the JFK conspiracy nut. The Nirther is the Fake Moon landing guy.

they are the same people. Maybe a few more of them as they recruit angry confused shy pimple faced boys, who in years past would have been socially awkward dorks stuffed into gym lockers. Now they wear T Shirts claiming 9-11 was an inside job. They get on TV and the radio and the net and claim Obama is named Soweto and he was born in Kenya just before he was born in Indonesia. Their big mouthes and voices reach a lot more people and the uninformed momentarily fall prey to their snake oil but in the grand sceme, I think the numbers of the true believers are small, as they have always been

The difference now is that they are out in public with a bullhorn and their craziness is augmented.

538 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:58:49pm

re: #522 EmmmieG

That's because parents are the slowest to cut back where their children are concerned. During the 80's recession, my parents still managed to find the money to take us to Disneyland.

My premium annual passes for the whole family agree with you.

539 opnion  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:59:14pm

re: #510 sattv4u2

Cynthis McKinney
James Traficant
Dennis Kucinich
Tip Of The Iceberg

You have to toss in Maxine Waters.

540 Lincolntf  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:59:19pm

re: #525 SixDegrees

I'm not sure how many books have been published about Obama's Birth Certificate, but I'm pretty damn sure that the 9/11 Troofers beat them out on that score.
Nirtherism is a convenient distraction from Obama's failures, but it's hardly a real "movement".

541 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:59:20pm
542 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:59:50pm

re: #532 drcordell

Can the sane portion of the GOP please defect and form a legitimate opposition party? It would do our nation a world of good.

Could the sane portion of the Democrat Party please purge the el cubos and fringe loons so we can work towards having a sane left and sane right for those in the middle to decide to vote for?

543 calcajun  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:00:08pm

re: #532 drcordell

Can the sane portion of the GOP please defect and form a legitimate opposition party?

I'm over here! Yoo Hoo!///

544 Wendya  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:00:36pm

re: #223 DeafDog

Why didn't we ever see a poll like this of the % of Dems who thought 9-11 was an inside job?

Looking back, there were many polls. Here are a couple of examples:

[Link: www.rasmussenreports.com...]

[Link: www.zogby.com...]

It should be comforting to know the rest of the world is just as nutty as we are: [Link: in.reuters.com...]

545 calcajun  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:00:49pm

re: #539 opnion

You have to toss in Maxine Waters.

But into what do we want to toss her?

546 jcm  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:01:01pm

re: #537 Shug

Good point, I would only say the new exposure of the 'net encourages them to be much more public with their looniness.

547 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:01:09pm

re: #539 opnion

You have to toss in Maxine Waters.

Barbara Lee as well.

548 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:02:14pm

re: #524 buzzsawmonkey

I thought Tip O'Neill was from the Boston area? Boston is a much nicer lettuce than iceberg.

I'm from Boston. I knew Tip O'Neill. Tip O'Neill was a congress,am of mine. Tip of The IceBurg is NO Tip O'Neill

(I think Tip IceBurg is Jewish,,, O'Neill was a Catholic)

//

549 Flyers1974  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:02:41pm

re: #523 opnion

I don't know what IW's answer would be, but I'd say the truthers never had a home anywhwere, at least that I'm aware of - they weren't accepted by either party and even DK banned people who posted 9-11 denial stuff.

550 Golem Akbar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:03:30pm

re: #500 ladycatnip

Of course The Won doesn't have a valid birth certificate - he's an Enlightened Being and Light Worker. Enlightened Beings are not born, they just are.

Ah, subtle satire! I wonder how many SF readers will take it literally?

551 drcordell  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:04:42pm

re: #542 Athos

Could the sane portion of the Democrat Party please purge the el cubos and fringe loons so we can work towards having a sane left and sane right for those in the middle to decide to vote for?

I'm not denying the existence of the fringe left. But where is the evidence that they hold any modicum of influence over the Democratic party? How many Democratic Reps have signed onto bills related to 9/11 trooferism?

552 filetandrelease  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:04:44pm

re: #516 CyanSnowHawk

We tore down Paradise, and put up a parking lot.

553 Annar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:05:27pm

From this post and the preceding one I suppose the nirthers will have to go to hell to find the birth certificate. Wee, to them I say bon voyage.

554 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:05:34pm
555 Dianna  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:05:36pm

re: #461 Naso Tang

It is sometimes called socialism, sometime CYA.

Not really.

556 opnion  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:05:45pm

re: #549 Flyers1974

I don't know what IW's answer would be, but I'd say the truthers never had a home anywhwere, at least that I'm aware of - they weren't accepted by either party and even DK banned people who posted 9-11 denial stuff.


The truthers believe that the U.S government attacked the America on orders of President Bush. These are people that hate W & I would extrapolate that they are mainly Domocrats.

557 filetandrelease  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:06:01pm

re: #527 calcajun
Nooo, get it out of my head!!!

558 Wendya  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:06:20pm

For those of you who've had little exposure to the crazies on the left, DU has their very own 9/11 forum dedicated to the LIHOP and MIHOP kooks. Yes, it is still active today and has thousands of posts.

559 restitutor orbis  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:06:32pm

A Daily Kos poll?

Seriously?

560 gander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:06:33pm

Our Nut-Jobs can beat your Nut-Jobs!

561 napjim  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:06:37pm

Too bad it's fallen this far. As one commentator noted, if this was really true, I can GUARANTEE anyone that the Clinton's would have been all over this like stink on s---.

Clearly the birth certificate provided by the state is completely legal and is the same one anyone else would get. The fact that is electronic is fully explained.

Obama will NEVER authorize release of the original, because it forces the Birthers to stew in this non-issue and mis-directs conservative energies away from him.

That said, he may be waiting for a nationally known leader against one of his policies to become a birther, at which point he'll pull out the original and discredit them.

562 Buck  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:07:07pm

re: #411 Charles

From what I can see, it's much more widespread than 9/11 Trooferism ever was. I never saw this many people promoting Trooferism.

When that stupid video came out... Loose Screws? There were a huge number who believed it. I remember meeting people in shopping lines, and work who thought it was the gospel.

I would tell them that they were trusting a complete stranger, and that he was telling them all out lies, and just because they saw it on the internet doesn't make it true...

I think the numbers dwindled, but I think at the start the 9/11 conspiracy truthers were even higher than birthers.

If I hadn't seen the research, and the proof, then I would have answered that I was not sure he was born in the USA.

Zombie went to the library, and did the research... Because Zombie was UNsure... Now we are sure, but before... we were UNsure.

If the question was "Do you believe that Obama lied about his citizenship in order to be president", I think (hope) we would see a different result.

563 Annar  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:07:11pm

Wee --> Well in my previous post, sorry.

564 opnion  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:07:13pm

re: #551 drcordell

I'm not denying the existence of the fringe left. But where is the evidence that they hold any modicum of influence over the Democratic party? How many Democratic Reps have signed onto bills related to 9/11 trooferism?


You have an extreme Left radical in the White House. That is some serious influence.

565 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:07:39pm
566 nikis-knight  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:07:39pm

re: #554 taxfreekiller

vote booth terror jack boot stick caring thugs

By the way, the justice department threw out the case against them.
After the US prosecutors had won by default.

567 Shug  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:08:24pm

Bad craziness in Congress

568 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:10:02pm

re: #556 opnion

The truthers believe that the U.S government attacked the America on orders of President Bush.

That doesn't make them mainstream, nor were people with that ideology mainstreamed. I notice a lot of slippage in this thread between truther as you've just defined it, and 'truther' meaning 'anyone who has any criticisms of Bush, war in Iraq, handling of the 9/11 inquiry, etc.'.

As Flyers said, there weren't bills being proposed by dems about truthers, and even dKos and other places banned them all.

569 drcordell  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:10:29pm

re: #556 opnion

They might vote for Democrats, but they aren't the base of the Democratic party. The above poll shows that the nirthers make up 1/4 of the GOP base. Which is why the "nirther bill" put forth by Bill Posey (R - FL) still has dozens of co-sponsors.

570 J.S.  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:10:39pm

re: #562 Buck

Were you in Canada during the time of the Loose Screws release by any chance? (It reached incredible proportions here...) (Jonathan Kay of the National Post is, I believe, writing a book on de-bunking the troofers..)

571 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:11:32pm

re: #569 drcordell

They might vote for Democrats, but they aren't the base of the Democratic party. The above poll shows that the nirthers make up 1/4 of the GOP base. Which is why the "nirther bill" I put forth by Bill Posey (R - FL) still has dozens of co-sponsors.

Not dozens-- 9 co-sponsers last I heard. They don't have even more now, do they?? I hope not!

(9 is too many of course)

572 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:12:18pm

re: #558 Wendya

For those of you who've had little exposure to the crazies on the left, DU has their very own 9/11 forum dedicated to the LIHOP and MIHOP kooks. Yes, it is still active today and has thousands of posts.

DU is the Free Republic of the left.

573 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:12:27pm
574 Buck  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:13:38pm

re: #463 lawhawk

No, there were hundreds of "scientists" demanding yet another investigation into the 9/11 attacks. There were demands for impeachment on Bush's involvement (war crimes, etc.). The permutations of trooferism nuttiness is mind boggling.

And there are members of Congress who do question the official report on the 9/11 attacks. Plenty of people in the media and politics questioned Bush's actions during the 9/11 attacks and thereafter.

If we did a POLL "Do you believe President Bush knew that there were no WMDs in Iraq, or not?" What would be the results among Democrats?

575 Flyers1974  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:14:10pm

re: #556 opnion

The truthers believe that the U.S government attacked the America on orders of President Bush. These are people that hate W & I would extrapolate that they are mainly Domocrats.

I would have assumed the same, but I think there were/are a whole lot of anti-gov't people, anti-semetics, etc... mixed in there or even the majority. Strictly anecdotal of course, but that's the sense I had.

576 Picayune  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:14:27pm

re: #371 ihateronpaul

Well, are you shocked that NPR's Andrew C. McCarthy finds the "GOP conspiracy theory" a reason to delve deeper and ask WHY, WHY, and Why?

See Why, here:
National Review Online: Suborned In the U.S.A.

[Link: www.npr.org...]

(HT to Bobibutu's LGF Link this AM)

577 GGMac  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:15:11pm

re: #299 Outrider

The problem is the entire debacle is being exploited by the Obama administration. They recognized early on this will be a divisive factor in the GOP and have milked it for all it is worth.

By merely keeping quiet on the entire (non) issue the administration has fueled the fires of the conspiracy nuts.

And yes, people of the South recognize Hawaii as a state. However; too many people are totally unaware of the entire Certificate of Live Birth issues; to wit, each state administers its own certificates (that whole 10th amendment thing). I have actually had people tell me they had Birth Certificates with little footprints on them and everything, not realizing they are hospital souvenirs.

Mostly, I suspect it is merely grasping at straws, still in denial wit the outcome of the election.

Furthering your remark about the 10th Amendment, that judiciousness often goes beyond the state level into the local level regarding certificates relative to births. My first child was born in Troy, NY 49 years ago. The hospital policy was to put the infant's footprint right next to the mother's thumbprint on the hospital's birth certificate. After both prints were in place, the umbilical cord was cut to separate mother and child. Not a souvenir - a guarantee that this was your child/your mother.

578 Wendya  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:15:50pm

re: #551 drcordell

I'm not denying the existence of the fringe left. But where is the evidence that they hold any modicum of influence over the Democratic party? How many Democratic Reps have signed onto bills related to 9/11 trooferism?

I wonder how many of the leftist "truthers" were also part of the "Impeach Bush" kooks. Quite a few of those still running around.

579 drcordell  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:16:17pm

re: #564 opnion

You have an extreme Left radical in the White House. That is some serious influence.

Uhhh... ok? The "leftist" radical who has gifted several hundred billion to giant investment banks. Who has continued the Bush administration policies of indefinite detention for terror suspects who have been found innocent. Who has further escalated the war in Afghanistan with a massive surge. Who recently increased the defense budget by roughly 9%. Who has failed to repeal DADT and upheld the Federal Defense of Marriage Act. Who enacted the auto bailout that was originally engineered by his non-leftist predecessor George W. Bush.

Just because he's to the left of the GOP doesn't make him a "leftist."

580 Wendya  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:16:57pm

re: #572 iceweasel

DU is the Free Republic of the left.

They are also the activists who took to the streets to get Obama elected. Let's not forget who his "base" is.

581 Salamantis  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:17:29pm

re: #572 iceweasel

DU is the Free Republic of the left.

They have two. Indymedia is the other one.

582 Buck  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:17:49pm

re: #570 J.S.

Were you in Canada during the time of the Loose Screws release by any chance? (It reached incredible proportions here...) (Jonathan Kay of the National Post is, I believe, writing a book on de-bunking the troofers..)

Yes, I know.

Normally smart people that I worked with would come up to me (knowing my feelings about 9/11) to 'show me'... I actually created a hand out (similar to the one I have for Birthers, that explained point for point why "Loose Change" was really a hoax.

I handed out thousands...

583 drcordell  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:18:39pm

re: #580 Wendya

They are also the activists who took to the streets to get Obama elected. Let's not forget who his "base" is.

You're so right. The 53% of the country that voted for Obama are all posters on Democratic Underground.

/

584 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:18:48pm

re: #579 drcordell

Just because he's to the left of the GOP doesn't make him a "leftist."

Yes, but that's been the strategy for years. Drag the overton window all the way to the right, and call anyone vaguely left of center not just a leftist but a radical leftist.

585 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:19:10pm
586 drcordell  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:20:18pm

re: #584 iceweasel

Tell me about it. If you just paid attention to the cable news shows, Blue Dog Dems would be considered "leftists."

587 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:20:38pm

re: #551 drcordell

But where is the evidence that they hold any modicum of influence over the Democratic party? How many Democratic Reps have signed onto bills related to 9/11 trooferism?

Interesting strawman limiting it to supporting bills on investigating the President / Administration re 9/11. I never mentioned 9/11 - just the fringe hard left loons on the left that are part and parcel of the D party.

So, your position is that McKinney, Kuchinch, Lee, Waters, Franks, Durbin, Holder, Code Pink, Answer, MoveOn, Center for American Progress, Ayers, Wright, Acorn, ACLU, etc don't hold any modicum of influence over the Democrat Party?

Thanks, that helps me assess your credibility.

588 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:21:59pm

re: #580 Wendya

They are also the activists who took to the streets to get Obama elected. Let's not forget who his "base" is.

No, DU is not his base, nor are they the activists who helped get him elected.

There's only 122,000 user accounts on DU, btw. I don't think those people do anything but talk to each other.

589 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:22:14pm
590 Wendya  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:22:28pm

re: #583 drcordell

You're so right. The 53% of the country that voted for Obama are all posters on Democratic Underground.

/

Are you deliberately being obtuse?

The far left are the ones who took to the streets, organize meet-ups, worked his campaign.

591 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:23:43pm
592 Wendya  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:23:51pm

re: #584 iceweasel

Yes, but that's been the strategy for years. Drag the overton window all the way to the right, and call anyone vaguely left of center not just a leftist but a radical leftist.

The same way the left characterizes anyone to the right of Chavez as a "right wing extremist"?

593 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:24:30pm

I went to Research 2000’s web site: [Link: research2000.us...] They are hardly the non-partisan polling firm they claim to be. The president of the company, Delair Ali, has a blog on the front page. Here’s the current entry:

Between the birthers, daily racism and xenophobia that pollutes the discourse in our great nation, I was thinking that the phrase “the inmates are running the asylum” defines the present situation best. However, it seems to obvious so I thought about what the late and brilliant play writer, Eugene Ionesco would be thinking if he were alive today. Mr Ionesco was one the brilliant writers of The Theater of the Absurd which was a best seller and was one of Broadway’s funniest plays historically when it first premiered in 1961. In a nutshell, the play focused on a culture that as “characters caught in hopeless situations forced to do repetitive or meaningless actions; dialogue full of cliches, wordplay, and nonsense; plots that are cyclical or absurdly expansive; either a parody or a dismissal of realism”. Ah, Yes, “a dismissal of realism” comes to mind when I watch the you tube at the town hall meeting in Delaware. Congressman Mike Castle, an honorable man and public servant looked horrified when a woman, who resembled the late Magna Goebells bellowed her vile accusation that Barack Obama is not an American citizen. This claim is supported as of this writing by nine members of Congress and of course America’s Racist of the airwaves, Rush Limbaugh and other advocates of hate.

And then there's this gem, referring to Rush Limbaugh:

Let me make it clear that I will continue to be the same non partisan pollster as I have been for over the past 20 years when it comes to the quality of my work. If that is not good enough for our clients or prospective clients, then to hell with all of you, particularly if you feel that way after you read the list. In fact, I hope my media clients will go after this cowardly slob and take him down once and for all.


He then proceeds to list 10 "quotes" Rush never said. (Some of them I recognize as similar to things Rush actually said, but they are highly distorted to make Rush appear racist.) Real non-partisan, huh?

The site is unprofessional. It’s done in Wordpress and is for the most part badly out of date. There are no links to the actual polls with internals, as you’d find at Gallup or Rasmussen, only links to the stories about the polls (basically republishing their press releases). So it's impossible to evaluate the validity of the poll. I can see no reason to consider this a credible organization.

594 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:24:32pm

re: #297 wrenchwench

Here you go.

NICE

595 Wendya  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:25:05pm

re: #588 iceweasel

No, DU is not his base, nor are they the activists who helped get him elected.

There's only 122,000 user accounts on DU, btw. I don't think those people do anything but talk to each other.

Uh-huh. Acorn, the left wing, etc... had no hand in his election.

And Obama rides unicorns over the rainbow.

596 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:26:13pm

re: #586 drcordell

Tell me about it. If you just paid attention to the cable news shows, Blue Dog Dems would be considered "leftists."

Well, that's why so many people think Sotomayor is some kind of radical leftist activist judge too.

She's a moderate/centrist who leans vaguely left and has been the opposite of a judicial activist. She's the best appointee that the right could have hoped for, and it's entirely possible that she'll turn out to be as big a surprise to Obama as Souter was to GHWB.

But we're busy pretending she's some kind of fringe "leftist"...even though GHWB is the one who first appointed her.

597 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:26:15pm
598 drcordell  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:26:27pm

re: #587 Athos

Interesting strawman limiting it to supporting bills on investigating the President / Administration re 9/11. I never mentioned 9/11 - just the fringe hard left loons on the left that are part and parcel of the D party.

So, your position is that McKinney, Kuchinch, Lee, Waters, Franks, Durbin, Holder, Code Pink, Answer, MoveOn, Center for American Progress, Ayers, Wright, Acorn, ACLU, etc don't hold any modicum of influence over the Democrat Party?

Thanks, that helps me assess your credibility.

Surely you must be kidding right now. Look at the stated policy goals of those organizations, and then look at what Obama has done in office. You tell me if they've "influenced" him.

We are still in Iraq and getting deeper into Afghanistan. Obama has backtracked on nearly every one of his campaign promises with regard to gays. He has thumbed his nose at the ACLU by supporting the Bush policies of indefinite detention for terror detainees and continued most if not all of the Bush surveillance programs instituted by the NSA. Kuchinich supports a single-payer healthcare system, which Obama does not wish to implement. He proposes drug legalization, which Obama has roundly rejected.

Find me a single policy that any of these groups have pressured Obama into implementing.

599 Flyers1974  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:26:33pm

re: #591 taxfreekiller

Kos Kult Kanker Kooks ='s Democrat Party Leadership

or

Its John F. Kerry

you chose iceweasel

Upding just because.

600 calcajun  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:27:19pm

re: #547 Athos

You want to toss her into a well? That's a bit harsh.///

601 J.S.  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:27:28pm

re: #582 Buck

hmmm, interesting...Jonathan Kay wrote a column about the 9/11 Troofers...(scary, in a way, since Kay described how he and someone else went to a "lecture" by some charlatan...The Charlatan was promoting Trooferism.. but, at the end of the "lecture" the person Kay went with had been turned into a Troofer! The lecture guy is some architect who wins over new "converts" to Trooferism...very persuasive speaker, etc. So, i believe, after that experience, Jonathan Kay decided to write his book...)

602 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:28:22pm

re: #595 Wendya

Uh-huh. Acorn, the left wing, etc... had no hand in his election.

You said DU got him elected and represent his base. They don't.

DU people probably never leave their basements.

603 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:29:07pm
604 CynicalConservative  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:29:58pm

re: #603 taxfreekiller

gaze

Scary when they start propping themselves up innit?

Good stuff from you as always.

605 kansas  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:30:48pm

I googled birther, and nirther got about 11,000 or so hits. When I googled truther I got 154,000 hits. I wonder if someone should commission a poll to see how many Democrats are truthers just to compare idiots?

606 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:31:10pm

re: #599 Flyers1974

Upding just because.

Random references to John Kerry always crack me up. :)

607 drcordell  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:32:12pm

re: #595 Wendya

Uh-huh. Acorn, the left wing, etc... had no hand in his election.

And Obama rides unicorns over the rainbow.

You do understand the difference between those groups voting for Obama, and those groups holding enough sway within the party to force his hand on issues. Don't you?

The way politics works in America is that if you aren't a Republican, you are by default a Democrat. That means the Democratic caucus is so diverse that there really isn't one "base" that can turn the screws on the party. Understand?

608 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:33:23pm

re: #605 kansas

I googled birther, and nirther got about 11,000 or so hits. When I googled truther I got 154,000 hits. I wonder if someone should commission a poll to see how many Democrats are truthers just to compare idiots?

Actually, that only shows that the term truther is in more use than birther or nirther.

Also the nirthers aren't calling themselves 'nirthers' or 'birthers'.

609 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:35:24pm

re: #607 drcordell

The way politics works in America is that if you aren't a Republican, you are by default a Democrat. That means the Democratic caucus is so diverse that there really isn't one "base" that can turn the screws on the party. Understand?

Some of the most savage criticisms of Obama are coming from the progressive left, after all, about health care, civil liberties, gay rights, etc.

610 Diamond Bullet  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:36:03pm
Do you believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States of America or not?

Nirthers crack me up, but at the same time how does a polling company get away with a question that incoherent? "Yes" means the same as "no".

611 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:36:18pm
612 Flyers1974  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:36:44pm

re: #608 iceweasel

Also, 9-11 deniers have been around since roughly a few weeks or months after 9/11/01.

613 emmyemerald  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:37:09pm

Best article on the subject the birth certifiacte of late is Andrew McCarthy's "Suborned in the USA" at NRO-online.

614 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:41:45pm

re: #598 drcordell

And for every policy or statement that I point to from any of these people or organizations that match or call for actions that the President / Congress has enacted, or are core to the planks of the Dem Party, you will then move the goalpost (just as you did using the 9/11 qualifier) to request proof that the shared vision and direction actually reflected influence. That is your MO - exactly as you've established.

These people are the leaders of the current party in 2 branches of government, the groups are the key elements of support and fund raising behind the WH and the Dem majority in Congress. You don't accept that as influence.

Instead, you selectively cherry pick the elements which directly support your position and lock on those as being the only ones that are worthy of debate and ignored the specific ones that I stated. Standard troll tactics.

As I said, your actions defined your credibility for cogent debate - and that credibilty remains far too low for me to spend more time feeding you.

615 Athos  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:45:06pm

re: #607 drcordell

The way politics works in America is that if you aren't a Republican, you are by default a Democrat. That means the Democratic caucus is so diverse that there really isn't one "base" that can turn the screws on the party.

That is an assinine statement - but hardly unexpected. The fallacy is in bold.

616 drcordell  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:45:32pm

re: #614 Athos

And for every policy or statement that I point to from any of these people or organizations that match or call for actions that the President / Congress has enacted, or are core to the planks of the Dem Party, you will then move the goalpost (just as you did using the 9/11 qualifier) to request proof that the shared vision and direction actually reflected influence. That is your MO - exactly as you've established.

These people are the leaders of the current party in 2 branches of government, the groups are the key elements of support and fund raising behind the WH and the Dem majority in Congress. You don't accept that as influence.

Instead, you selectively cherry pick the elements which directly support your position and lock on those as being the only ones that are worthy of debate and ignored the specific ones that I stated. Standard troll tactics.

As I said, your actions defined your credibility for cogent debate - and that credibilty remains far too low for me to spend more time feeding you.

You're the one who keeps moving the goalposts. There are numerous GOP elected officials who have made pro-nirther statements on the record. There is a nirther bill in the House that currently has several GOP co-signers. Find me the Democrat equivalent with regard to 9/11 troofers? It doesn't exist.

617 kansas  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:45:59pm

re: #608 iceweasel

Actually, that only shows that the term truther is in more use than birther or nirther.

Also the nirthers aren't calling themselves 'nirthers' or 'birthers'.

I don't think the truthers call themselves truthers either. I just wonder how many Democrats are truthers, that's all. Are you?

618 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:46:38pm
619 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:50:17pm

re: #617 kansas

I don't think the truthers call themselves truthers either. I just wonder how many Democrats are truthers, that's all. Are you?

My point is that your google search is likely to only return pages where nirthers/truthers are being debunked or mocked. (since neither are likely to use those terms about themselves, and those terms are generally used to disparage them).

I wonder why you would imagine that I'm a truther. No, I am not.

BTW, I'm also not a Democrat.

620 drcordell  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:51:22pm

re: #614 Athos


These people are the leaders of the current party in 2 branches of government, the groups are the key elements of support and fund raising behind the WH and the Dem majority in Congress. You don't accept that as influence.

You conflate fundraising with influence. I conflate policies that have actually been enacted as influence. Point me to the "leftist agenda" planks that Obama has enacted as President? My point is that they don't exist.

Gay rights - nothing
Iraq war- still fighting
Afghanistan - escalated
TARP - started by Bush, continued unabated by Obama
Auto bailout - started by Bush, finished by Obama
Healthcare - nothing accomplished thus far, because of infighting amongst Democrats
Guantanamo - nothing actually done thus far
Indefinite detention of detainees - Bush policies continued
Domestic surveillance programs - Bush policies continued

Where is the influence of these groups on the Democratic party? They control the house, senate and Presidency and haven't accomplished anything substantial.

621 Erik The Red  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:52:57pm

ice and flyer I can not believe that you are even talking to drcordell let alone updinging the prick. Were you here earlier when he tore into Blue for no reason? But hey you libs need to stick together.

622 drcordell  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:53:22pm

re: #615 Athos

That is an assinine statement - but hardly unexpected. The fallacy is in bold.

Ok Athos. How would you break down the bases of the respective parties? I would consider the GOP base to be white, working class, largely Southern, and Christian. You're telling me that there is a major constituency within the GOP that doesn't fit that demographic? What is it?

623 Erik The Red  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:53:59pm

re: #621 Erik The Red

ice and flyer I can not believe that you are even talking to drcordell let alone updinging the prick. Were you here earlier when he tore into Blue for no reason? But hey you libs need to stick together.

Top 10 bottom comments for his out burst earlier.

624 drcordell  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:54:19pm

re: #621 Erik The Red

It wasn't no reason, he kept accusing me of being a sock puppet.

625 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:55:00pm

if there is a god in heaven, I will see the South removed from the US forever in my lifetime. Please lord, just make it go away and never come back.

626 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:55:22pm

re: #620 drcordell

You conflate fundraising with influence. I conflate policies that have actually been enacted as influence. Point me to the "leftist agenda" planks that Obama has enacted as President? My point is that they don't exist.


Guantanamo - nothing actually done thus far
Indefinite detention of detainees - Bush policies continued
Domestic surveillance programs - Bush policies continued

You're absolutely right, and I'll only add that in reference to these, Obama is not only continuing but expanding Bush policies and Bush ideology. That is, his 'solutions' to closing Gitmo will involve instituting a three-tier system which permanently allows for indefinite detention without trial. Some 'leftist'.

627 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:57:37pm

re: #611 buzzsawmonkey

From your link/quote:

"Theater of the Absurd" was a description of a school of playwriting, and was neither "a best seller" nor "one of Broadway's funniest plays"--for it was not a play at all.

It this ignoramus talking about Ionesco's "The Bald Soprano"? Is he talking about his play "Rhinoceros"? The description would appear to apply to the former--badly--but it is by no means clear.

Good catch. My eyes glazed over at the Ionesco references. I was more startled by the Magda Goebbels reference.

628 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:57:46pm

re: #621 Erik The Red

ice and flyer I can not believe that you are even talking to drcordell let alone updinging the prick. Were you here earlier when he tore into Blue for no reason? But hey you libs need to stick together.

I called him out on that. Check the thread.

I'll upding good points and arguments when I see them made, even by people not on my side, just as I'll call out bad behaviour even when it's done by someone who is 'on my side'.

629 kansas  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:58:21pm

re: #625 SpaceJesus

if there is a god in heaven, I will see the South removed from the US forever in my lifetime. Please lord, just make it go away and never come back.

I'm pretty sure they tried that once.

630 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:59:35pm

re: #629 kansas

I'm pretty sure they tried that once.

this time we should pay them to leave or give them some sort of prize.

what do southerners like? keystone light? grease? monster trucks?

631 drcordell  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:00:09pm

re: #629 kansas

I'm pretty sure they tried that once.

That was back when they were the economic engine of the nation. Now that most of the South is made up of states that are net recipients of Federal tax money... we just might let them go.

632 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:01:15pm

re: #630 SpaceJesus

this time we should pay them to leave or give them some sort of prize.

what do southerners like? keystone light? grease? monster trucks?

Spoken like a true moron who has never visited the South. Why don't you go watch some more Dukes of Hazzard reruns?

633 drcordell  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:01:57pm

re: #632 doppelganglander

You mean the South doesn't like Keystone Light? What about Natty Light?

634 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:03:02pm

re: #593 doppelganglander

I went to Research 2000’s web site: [Link: research2000.us...] They are hardly the non-partisan polling firm they claim to be. The president of the company, Delair Ali, has a blog on the front page. Here’s the current entry:


He then proceeds to list 10 "quotes" Rush never said. (Some of them I recognize as similar to things Rush actually said, but they are highly distorted to make Rush appear racist.) Real non-partisan, huh?

The site is unprofessional. It’s done in Wordpress and is for the most part badly out of date. There are no links to the actual polls with internals, as you’d find at Gallup or Rasmussen, only links to the stories about the polls (basically republishing their press releases). So it's impossible to evaluate the validity of the poll. I can see no reason to consider this a credible organization.

Thanks for posting this.
I am still trying to figure out how, in the south, they came up with 53% voting "no" or "not sure".

In Louisiana, and 67% of the population is registered Dem, so only 33% are Republican. I suspect similar numbers hold true for Georgia and Mississippi. So southern Dems must be as ill-informed as anybody else, OR the poll numbers are incorrect or skewed somehow.

635 kansas  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:07:58pm

This might surprise you but I think that the South plus a few other states have had it with the federal government ramming it up...down...never mind.

636 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:10:13pm

re: #632 doppelganglander

Spoken like a true moron who has never visited the South. Why don't you go watch some more Dukes of Hazzard reruns?

I don't think people like me (intelligent, non-racist, not obese) are allowed in the south.

637 kansas  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:11:11pm

re: #636 SpaceJesus

I don't think people like me (intelligent, non-racist, not obese) are allowed in the south.

My bet is you are not 1/2 as intelligent as you think you are.

638 J.S.  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:11:30pm

re: #496 Macker

And how would Canadians feel if, next time, the Islamofascists took out the CN Tower?

they'd blame it on Americans?
/

639 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:13:12pm

re: #634 reine.de.tout

Thanks for posting this.
I am still trying to figure out how, in the south, they came up with 53% voting "no" or "not sure".

In Louisiana, and 67% of the population is registered Dem, so only 33% are Republican. I suspect similar numbers hold true for Georgia and Mississippi. So southern Dems must be as ill-informed as anybody else, OR the poll numbers are incorrect or skewed somehow.

We do not have party registration here. I think many people still consider themselves Democrats like their daddies were, but like Reagan, they feel their party has left them.

Here's some interesting historical information from Wiki (emphasis added):

After Reconstruction, white Democrats regained power, especially by legal disfranchisement of most African Americans and many poor whites through erection of barriers to voter registration. In 1900, shortly before Georgia adopted a disfranchising constitutional amendment in 1908, blacks comprised 47% of the state's population.[59] A "clean" franchise was linked by Progressives to electoral reform.[60] White, one-party rule was solidified. To escape the oppression, tens of thousands of black Georgians left the state, going north in the Great Migration for jobs, better education for their children and the chance to vote.

For over 130 years, from 1872 to 2003, Georgians only elected white Democratic governors, and white Democrats held the majority of seats in the General Assembly. Most of the Democrats elected throughout these years were Southern Democrats or Dixiecrats who were very conservative by national standards. This continued after the segregationist period, which ended legally in the 1960s. According to the 1960 census, the proportion of Georgia's population that was African American had decreased to 28%.[61] After civil rights legislation under President Johnson secured voting and civil rights in the mid-1960s, most African Americans in the South joined the Democratic Party.

During the 1960s and 1970s, Georgia made significant changes in civil rights, governance, and economic growth focused on Atlanta. It was a bedrock of the emerging "New South." This characterization was solidified with the election of former Georgia Governor Jimmy Carter in 1976 to the U.S. Presidency.

The political dominance of Democrats ended in 2003, when then-Governor Roy Barnes was defeated by Republican Sonny Perdue, a state legislator and former Democrat himself. It was regarded as a stunning upset. While Democrats retained control of the State House, they lost their majority in the Senate when four Democrats switched parties. They lost the House in the 2004 election. Republicans now control all three partisan elements of the state government.

640 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:13:50pm

re: #636 SpaceJesus

I don't think people like me (intelligent, non-racist, not obese) are allowed in the south.

You forgot bigoted.

641 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:13:59pm

re: #634 reine.de.tout

Thanks for posting this.
I am still trying to figure out how, in the south, they came up with 53% voting "no" or "not sure".

In Louisiana, and 67% of the population is registered Dem, so only 33% are Republican. I suspect similar numbers hold true for Georgia and Mississippi. So southern Dems must be as ill-informed as anybody else, OR the poll numbers are incorrect or skewed somehow.

It would have been helpful to also have a breakdown by party and geography combined, as in "In the South, x percent of Dems think this; y percent of Republicans think this".

As is, we've only got the general party affiliation and then the geography, not something deeper.

642 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:14:21pm

re: #637 kansas

My bet is you are not 1/2 as intelligent as you think you are.

compared to the average southerner, I am Steven Hawking

643 kansas  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:14:44pm

re: #642 SpaceJesus

compared to the average southerner, I am Steven Hawking

Overgeneralize much?

644 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:15:36pm
645 VioletTiger  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:16:33pm

re: #625 SpaceJesus

if there is a god in heaven, I will see the South removed from the US forever in my lifetime. Please lord, just make it go away and never come back.


Are you trying to worm your way into the bottom ten?
There really is no reason to make such a comment.

646 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:17:05pm

re: #631 drcordell

That was back when they were the economic engine of the nation. Now that most of the South is made up of states that are net recipients of Federal tax money... we just might let them go.

WTF? The South was the economic engine of the nation in 1860? It was a backwards agricultural region that was soundly defeated in part because it lacked the industrial capacity to produce quality iron for weaponry or finished cloth for uniforms.

The "net recipient" data comes from the fact that the South is home to many military bases. It's got nothing to do with direct handouts to individuals or support for dying industries (like, oh, the auto industry in Detroit). The Rust Belt has been losing jobs for over 30 years, and many of those folks have moved to the South because of its outstanding record of job growth.

I think we can establish that your "doctorate" is neither in history nor economics.

647 CynicalConservative  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:17:55pm

CAGEMATCH! SJ and DRc faceoff at 10 for ownership of the bottom 10 comments! Get your tickets now!
//

648 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:18:27pm

re: #276 VioletTiger

Perhaps if they could be convinced that no force in heaven or hell (take notice antiChrist people) will ever remove Obama from office they might give it up and move on.
Defeat him at the ballot box and cease the nonsense.

I honestly don't know if most of these people actually expect or want him to be removed. My impression is that many of them are OK with living in a world out of control, where conspiracists manage everything from behind the scenes. They know what's going on, so it doesn;'t bother them.

649 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:18:33pm

re: #644 buzzsawmonkey

I suspect that you resemble Stephen Hawking only in requiring electronics to give voice to your thoughts.

? are you implying that electronic voice assistance reflects poorly on people?

650 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:19:43pm
651 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:20:05pm

re: #636 SpaceJesus

I don't think people like me (intelligent, non-racist, not obese) are allowed in the south.

If that were true, I'd be forced to leave. As it is, though, most everyone is welcome here except for arrogant jackasses.

652 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:20:09pm

re: #645 VioletTiger

Are you trying to worm your way into the bottom ten?
There really is no reason to make such a comment.

I'm actually being completely serious. The South is like an abnormal growth or tumor that has to be removed for the health of our nation.

653 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:20:50pm

The South is where a lot of our Military comes from.
Must be nice to deride them while they're protecting your sorry ass.

654 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:21:15pm

re: #651 doppelganglander

If that were true, I'd be forced to leave. As it is, though, most everyone is welcome here except for arrogant jackasses.

and black people with funny names that were born in Hawaii

655 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:21:58pm

re: #652 SpaceJesus

I'm actually being completely serious. The South is like an abnormal growth or tumor that has to be removed for the health of our nation.

Talk about projection.

656 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:22:46pm

re: #653 SasquatchOnSteroids

The South is where a lot of our Military comes from.
Must be nice to deride them while they're protecting your sorry ass.


kind of hard to maintain a military without money coming from wealthy normal states though isn't it?

657 VioletTiger  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:22:46pm

re: #652 SpaceJesus

GAZE

658 CynicalConservative  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:22:50pm

re: #652 SpaceJesus

I'm actually being completely serious. The South is like an abnormal growth or tumor that has to be removed for the health of our nation.

Ummm, yeah, right. Off our meds today, are we?

659 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:23:05pm
660 kansas  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:24:39pm

re: #646 doppelganglander

I think we can establish that your "doctorate" is neither in history nor economics.

Nor anything else.

661 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:25:18pm

re: #656 SpaceJesus

kind of hard to maintain a military without money coming from wealthy normal states though isn't it?

Auto scroll.
Fawevah.

662 doubter4444  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:28:40pm

re: #386 Killgore Trout

Ok, you guys gotta see this...
World Science Festival 2009: Bobby McFerrin Demonstrates the Power of the Pentatonic Scale


[Video]

Brilliant, thanks

663 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:28:47pm
664 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:30:52pm

re: #663 buzzsawmonkey

And since much of our working oil refinery capacity is located in the South, under spacejesus' plan we'd freeze in the dark that much faster.

There would be no Darkness if we just chop off everything below the Mason-Dixon, don'tcha know ?

665 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:33:39pm
666 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:36:06pm

re: #665 buzzsawmonkey

And, if we spun off the South, the films would be completely bereft of Accents which Automatically Denote Evil in White Guys.

Nah, we also use german accents and English accents (often) to denote "evil guys".

667 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:37:21pm
668 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:39:07pm

re: #641 iceweasel

It would have been helpful to also have a breakdown by party and geography combined, as in "In the South, x percent of Dems think this; y percent of Republicans think this".

As is, we've only got the general party affiliation and then the geography, not something deeper.

Doppelganglander went looking for deeper information, and could not find it.
Do you know where it might be?

669 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:40:15pm

re: #665 buzzsawmonkey

And, if we spun off the South, the films would be completely bereft of Accents which Automatically Denote Evil in White Guys.

Damn, you might be onto something.
Dixie Chicks music wouldn't be so downbeat, College Football would rock again without the SEC, and we wouldn't have to pay for them slackers no more.

670 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:40:35pm

re: #667 buzzsawmonkey

But those are not domestic accents. Get rid of the South, and a Southern accent will not be domestic either.

Sadly, we'd just find another regional accent to demonise. Like the Mid or upper west (whatever I should call Fargo, etc), or Sarah Palin's, or something else.

671 doubter4444  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:41:12pm

re: #628 iceweasel

I called him out on that. Check the thread.

I'll upding good points and arguments when I see them made, even by people not on my side, just as I'll call out bad behaviour even when it's done by someone who is 'on my side'.

So will (did) I

672 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:41:36pm

re: #660 kansas

Nor anything else.

Of course, I realize a nic is just a nic and doesn't necessarily imply any true facts about the individual. But dr. cordell could be a urologist in Cleveland or a pediatrician in Michigan.

Or, more likely, a chiropractor in Oklahoma.

673 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:43:43pm

re: #631 drcordell

That was back when they were the economic engine of the nation. Now that most of the South is made up of states that are net recipients of Federal tax money... we just might let them go.

re: #652 SpaceJesus

I'm actually being completely serious. The South is like an abnormal growth or tumor that has to be removed for the health of our nation.

goodness.
methinks there is a move afoot to get all the southern conservatives here so upset they leave.
Won't work

674 pink freud  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:43:50pm

re: #672 doppelganglander

Of course, I realize a nic is just a nic and doesn't necessarily imply any true facts about the individual. But dr. cordell could be a urologist in Cleveland or a pediatrician in Michigan.

Or, more likely, a chiropractor in Oklahoma.

Or, it could be somebody with a name like Debbie Rochell Cordell, using the first two initials. I mean ...is the "doctor" part really credible after all we've seen?

675 VioletTiger  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:46:18pm

re: #672 doppelganglander

Of course, I realize a nic is just a nic and doesn't necessarily imply any true facts about the individual. But dr. cordell could be a urologist in Cleveland or a pediatrician in Michigan.

Or, more likely, a chiropractor in Oklahoma.

A nontenured prof in an obscure college...

676 VioletTiger  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:47:34pm

re: #673 reine.de.tout

Perhaps Space case was jealous that drcordell had all the bottom ten.

677 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:49:27pm

re: #668 reine.de.tout

Doppelganglander went looking for deeper information, and could not find it.
Do you know where it might be?

I've been goofing off today, I have to admit. I'll see what I can dig up on the pollster and let you know what I find. (if I find anything)

I do know that I ran across a poll of theirs once that did had a problem with the sampling. I'll keep you posted!

678 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:50:08pm

re: #677 iceweasel

I've been goofing off today, I have to admit. I'll see what I can dig up on the pollster and let you know what I find. (if I find anything)

I do know that I ran across a poll of theirs once that did had a problem with the sampling. I'll keep you posted!

have. PIMF

679 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:50:51pm

#674 pink freud

re: #675 VioletTiger

Both possible scenarios. I also discovered an episode of the TV show "Thriller" called "The Ordeal of Dr. Cordell."

A research scientist accidentally discovers a strange gas that penetrates his gas mask and the effects are most bizarre - now every time he hears a bell it sends him into a murderous rage.

Hmmm...

680 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:51:32pm

re: #673 reine.de.tout

goodness.
methinks there is a move afoot to get all the southern conservatives here so upset they leave.
Won't work

We're entirely too numerous, and stubborn.

681 Shug  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:01:30pm

re: #636 SpaceJesus

I don't think people like me (intelligent, non-racist, not obese) are allowed in the south.

You are right. You are not allowed.

Stay far far away

682 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:04:37pm

re: #668 reine.de.tout

Doppelganglander went looking for deeper information, and could not find it.
Do you know where it might be?

Here you go, reine: only 720 of those polled were in the South.

The poll also included independents, "other" and nonvoters.

At a guess, one reason why we'd see such a high discrepancy for numbers in the south could be because the sample selection in the south was skewed and contained more nonvoters than in other areas.

(I am assuming, perhaps unfairly, that people who don't vote are more likely statistically to be less informed, and therefore more prone to nirtherism and the like--regardless of where they're located.)

Here's the methodology, for those interested:

The Daily Kos weekly National Poll was conducted by Research 2000 July 27 through July 30, 2009. A total of 2400 adults nationally were interviewed by telephone. A cross-section of calls was made into each state in the country in order to reflect the adult population nationally.

The margin for error, according to standards customarily used by statisticians, is no more than plus or minus 2% percentage points. This means that there is a 95 percent probability that the "true" figure would fall within that range if the entire adult population were sampled. The margin for error is higher for any demographic subgroup, such as gender, race, or region.

GEOGRAPHIC BREAKDOWN:

Northeast:
DC, ME, VT, NY, MD, PA, CT, DE, MA, NH, RI, WV, NJ

South:
FL, NC, SC, AL, MS, GA, VA, TN, KY, LA, AR, TX

Midwest:
IL, MN, MI, OH, WI, IA, MO, KS, IN, ND, SD, OK, NE

West:
NM, CA, OR, WA, AK, HI, MT, ID, UT, NV, AZ, WY, CO

Here's the total breakdown:
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

683 JacksonTn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:09:13pm

re: #636 SpaceJesus

I don't think people like me (intelligent, non-racist, not obese) are allowed in the south.

SJ ... I would so love to meet you ... really ... face to face ...

684 DEZes  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:10:04pm

re: #649 SpaceJesus

? are you implying that electronic voice assistance reflects poorly on people?

He is saying he is surprised your brain emits enough energy to move your fucking lips.

685 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:12:38pm

re: #682 iceweasel

Thank you. I am going over there now to read the rest.

686 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:29:02pm

re: #685 doppelganglander

Thank you. I am going over there now to read the rest.

You're welcome!

I can see a number of ways the results might be skewed vis-a-vis the numbers for the south. For example, in the state by state breakdown WV is considered "northeast" and TX is considered "south". Is that usual? My guess is that could be skewing the numbers too.

The main point to keep in mind when looking at the geo breakdown is that the geo breakdown also reflects nonvoters, independents, and other. My guess would be that it's not that democrats in the south are skewing the birther numbers, but the independents, 'other' and nonvoters.

687 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:35:43pm

re: #686 iceweasel

You're welcome!

I can see a number of ways the results might be skewed vis-a-vis the numbers for the south. For example, in the state by state breakdown WV is considered "northeast" and TX is considered "south". Is that usual? My guess is that could be skewing the numbers too.

The main point to keep in mind when looking at the geo breakdown is that the geo breakdown also reflects nonvoters, independents, and other. My guess would be that it's not that democrats in the south are skewing the birther numbers, but the independents, 'other' and nonvoters.

Ice - for the "south" the numbers are skewed in this way:
DEMOCRATS 743 31%
REPUBLICANS 527 22%

WHITE 1703 71%
BLACK 337 14%

NORTHEAST 504 21%
SOUTH 720 30%
MIDWEST 647 27%
WEST 529 22%

It looks like a higher percentage of southerners were polled than people in other areas of the country (30% vs. 21, 22 and 27%)

They say the poll was 71% white, 14% black.
Here in most southern states, population is about 60% white, 30% (or higher) black. In my city, it's 50% white, 45% black.

So if they polled 71% white, 14% black, they are way off in representative polling.

then, they polled 31% dem, 21% republican. I know in Louisiana (and I can get the link for you) voters are 67% Dem, about 31% or so Rep. So again, the representation is way off for their "south" numbers.

688 avspatti  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:37:00pm

Why doesn't he just release the stupid birth certificate and be done with it? This is so stupid . . . stupid, stupidly . . . words of the week, I guess.

Is this part of the chaotic situation that community organizers like?

689 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:45:48pm

re: #686 iceweasel

After looking at the published internals, I think the number of respondents from the South is probably proportionate to their percentage of the U.S. population. However, I'm wondering if the other demographics (race, party identification, voter/nonvoter status) correspond to what's true of the region, or if they reflect national numbers.

For example, the poll included 14% black respondents. That's a bit high, nationwide (it's closer to 12.4%), but okay. However, as reine pointed out, blacks are upwards of 30% of the population in many southern states. A sample in, say, Georgia (where I live) that is 85% white (and maybe 1% other) is significantly oversampling whites.

By the same token, the party breakdown may be okay at the national level, although I think the sample of independents is a bit high. But party identification is very different from state to state and region to region. Reine notes the percentages for Louisiana. In Georgia, we don't even have party registration. The only way to estimate if your respondents' self-reported affiliation is representative of the population is to compare it to the results of the last election, and even then it's only an estimate. A lot of folks still consider themselves Democrats even though they've voted Republican for years.

Bottom line, I think there are serious questions about this poll. I am willing to stipulate that nirther sentiment is higher among whites in the south than among Americans in general and that it correlates with being Republican and evangelical Christian. I am not sure this poll represents an accurate sample of all Southerners.

I also have some questions about the other question, about Africa and America having once been a single continent, but I'll save it for another post.

690 formercorpsman  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:51:30pm

re: #549 Flyers1974

Hey Flyers.

I don't want to make this sound like a defense of the nirthers, because it is not. They are the shit birds that they are, and like Buzz so correctly describes them as moths to a flame, they deserve all the scrutiny heaped upon them.

But I think some folks have either a short memory, and just don't accept how bad that really was.

I recall Michael Moore's tirade in 2004, him sitting next to a former President, (personal box I might add) at the DNC for Kerry's acceptance.

As well, I will admit his words not to be a ringing endorsement of trutherism, but at the height of his frontrunner status in 2004, Howard Dean asnwered questions on a D.C. radio station interview as it pertained to the topic.

He was questioned as to prior knowledge. A response followed.

"The most interesting theory that I've heard so far – which is nothing more than a theory, it can't be proved – is that he was warned ahead of time by the Saudis."


"Now, who knows what the real situation is? But the trouble is, by suppressing that kind of information, you lead to those kinds of theories, whether they have any truth to them or not."



I would say, certainly not the repudiation of a President Clinton, when faced with a similar situation.

As well, I would ask you to recall the traction the MSM got out of Cindy Sheehan, as well as the mileage the Democrats got politially while riding her wave.

Last, I will link a poll below. It seems prett credible to me. If you do not wish to read through it all, I understand. At the very least, just take a look at the paragraph next to the last at the bottom.

[Link: newspolls.org...]

691 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:54:05pm

re: #687 reine.de.tout

I noticed that 30% of those polled were in the south, which seems odd.

But we don't have the specific breakdown of demographics by region, and that's what would be needed for your point. You're pointing out that the demographics of the south don't reflect the demographics of the nation (as represented by their demographic for all those polled). But that's to be expected-- look:

So if they polled 71% white, 14% black, they are way off in representative polling

That's how the demographics are for the poll as a whole. We don't know if, in the south, they polled 71% white and 14% black. And that's what you'd need to show.

The 71 white/14 black is reflecting the poll as a whole, and sounds about right for national demographics.

I know in Louisiana (and I can get the link for you) voters are 67% Dem, about 31% or so Rep.

I don't doubt you, but those figures can only apply to those who are registered or identify themselves as belonging to a party at all-- and the poll includes nonvoters, people who call themselves 'other' and independents.

692 hiddenlizard  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:56:08pm

We need to combat the democrat's "ideas", not try to get them out of office on technicalities which have been proven false. The Birthers are in effect saying: "we can't argue against Obama, so lets pretend he isn't an American!"

It's so stupid because the Democrats have no ideas beyond: "people want/need X, therefore lets tax people to give them X". THE END.

693 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:59:59pm

re: #689 doppelganglander

See my 691 to reine vis-a-vis the demographics.

You make good points about GA and party affiliation. As I mentioned initially, to really be sure the numbers work for the south we'd have to know the demo breakdown of those polled by region, to be sure there is no skewing. Just because the numbers work at the national level (77 vs 14) doesn't mean they work out at the regional level to accurately reflect that region's specific demigraphic. And that information hasn't been supplied.

I have to say I'm starting to think the poll is accurate-- not necessarily in its specific breakdown of the south, but overall.

I strongly suspect the numbers would level out somewhat if TX was counted as West and WV as south, for one thing.

694 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:03:45pm

re: #693 iceweasel

Ultimately, there's no way of knowing how accurate it is as long as we lack the data about demographics within each region. I think the national number is probably pretty accurate, maybe a shade high on the nirther side. If the Southern numbers are accurate, I need to have a serious talk with some of my neighbors.

695 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:05:35pm

re: #691 iceweasel

I noticed that 30% of those polled were in the south, which seems odd.

But we don't have the specific breakdown of demographics by region, and that's what would be needed for your point. You're pointing out that the demographics of the south don't reflect the demographics of the nation (as represented by their demographic for all those polled). But that's to be expected-- look:

I don't doubt you, but those figures can only apply to those who are registered or identify themselves as belonging to a party at all-- and the poll includes nonvoters, people who call themselves 'other' and independents.

My point, I guess, was that if their poll reflected the demographics of the nation as a whole, then they should not have broken it down into regions, as if that was important somehow.

Look - we in the South are very sensitive to attempts to make Southern whites look like rabid heathen redneck racists.

Most of us are not. There are some; but I've lived here all my life, and I have rarely come across such people, and they are shunned from polite company.

And if their poll information for the region is not reflective of the region's population, then I personally have a difficult time accepting their results as credible, at least for whatever they are trying to show for this region. So I question why they even broke it out into regions at all.

696 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:05:37pm

re: #689 doppelganglander


For example, the poll included 14% black respondents. That's a bit high, nationwide (it's closer to 12.4%), but okay. However, as reine pointed out, blacks are upwards of 30% of the population in many southern states.

Actually-- that explains why the black respondents were slightly high. 30% of all those polled were in the south, so given that blacks make up a larger slice of the population in the south, that explains why the demo of the entire poll would be slightly higher. (14% vs 12.4)

697 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:09:13pm

re: #695 reine.de.tout

My point, I guess, was that if their poll reflected the demographics of the nation as a whole, then they should not have broken it down into regions, as if that was important somehow.

I agree with you on that. (also all the rest of your post) That's why the first thing I said about this was that if they were going to break it down by region at all, they ought to have broken it down even further so that people don't draw the wrong conclusions from it. (and so it can be factchecked).

Or not break it down by region at all. I'm really not sure what purpose that serves.

698 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:09:39pm

re: #695 reine.de.tout

My point, I guess, was that if their poll reflected the demographics of the nation as a whole, then they should not have broken it down into regions, as if that was important somehow.

Look - we in the South are very sensitive to attempts to make Southern whites look like rabid heathen redneck racists.

Most of us are not. There are some; but I've lived here all my life, and I have rarely come across such people, and they are shunned from polite company.

And if their poll information for the region is not reflective of the region's population, then I personally have a difficult time accepting their results as credible, at least for whatever they are trying to show for this region. So I question why they even broke it out into regions at all.

And Ice - it doesn't help my trust of that polling organization that the "Research 2000" site that Doppelgang linked to, one of their featured links is Southern Stupid.

699 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:13:51pm

re: #698 reine.de.tout

And Ice - it doesn't help my trust of that polling organization that the "Research 2000" site that Doppelgang linked to, one of their featured links is Southern Stupid.

That list of links is automatically generated. It's a google RSS aggregate-- anyone who has talked about or linked to research2000 in a certain period of time automatically shows up in that list. That's why it's called "talking about us" and has the little RSS feed next to it.

It's similar to how google ads automatically generates content without the blogowner approving the ads or knowing what they are.

(I'm not defending a site called southen stupid, believe me)

700 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:15:51pm

re: #699 iceweasel

That list of links is automatically generated. It's a google RSS aggregate-- anyone who has talked about or linked to research2000 in a certain period of time automatically shows up in that list. That's why it's called "talking about us" and has the little RSS feed next to it.

It's similar to how google ads automatically generates content without the blogowner approving the ads or knowing what they are.

(I'm not defending a site called southen stupid, believe me)

Ah. OK. I didn't think you were. . .

701 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:24:40pm

re: #700 reine.de.tout

Ah. OK. I didn't think you were. . .

If you click the "talking about us" header you can see that he's set it up so that the last ten blogs that turn up on google blog search linking there or mentioning them automatically wind up in that list.

Hopefully the site owner will do something about that; my guess is that a lot of unpleasant people might be linking to him in the next few days. Any kind of auto generated content like that is always a problem because anything at all could wind up there, unless the webmaster/blog owner does something about it.

702 Ringo the Gringo  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:30:03pm

Somehow I find the results of this poll a bit hard to believe.

58%?...I'm just not buying it.

703 Salamantis  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:31:27pm

re: #636 SpaceJesus

I don't think people like me (intelligent, non-racist, not obese) are allowed in the south.

I gues that must mean I'm a moronic racist blubber butt, ayy, SJ? Because I was born in Mobils, Alabama and live in Pensacola, Florida; you can't get deeper in the Deep South than that.

704 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:37:20pm

re: #701 iceweasel

I'm agreeing with ice weasel! Cats and dogs sleeping together! Seriously, I appreciate your thoughtful posts on the demographics of the poll.

705 bill shears  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:40:10pm

As one who might have been sneered at for wanting the question of this atrocious president's birth answered I'm satisfied with James Lewis's analysis:

[Link: www.americanthinker.com...]

706 JacksonTn  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:41:55pm

re: #625 SpaceJesus

if there is a god in heaven, I will see the South removed from the US forever in my lifetime. Please lord, just make it go away and never come back.

SJ ... I guess it is okay to slam southerners the way you are doing ... how about you just don't bother ever coming down here and leave it at that ...

707 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:49:46pm

re: #704 doppelganglander

I'm agreeing with ice weasel! Cats and dogs sleeping together! Seriously, I appreciate your thoughtful posts on the demographics of the poll.

Heh. Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria! I appreciate your posts too. Thanks!

I thought your post at 689 gets the right bottom line. Also 694.

Hey, if we're agreeing, it must be time for friday night drinking!

Youtube Video
708 doppelganglander  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:54:13pm

re: #707 iceweasel

Hey, if we're agreeing, it must be time for friday night drinking!

I'm already on my second beer. Cheers!

709 The Left  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:59:02pm

re: #708 doppelganglander

I'm already on my second beer. Cheers!

Cheers! I'm out of here for a while myself, time to catchup with you. :)

Catch you later. --iceDub

710 horse  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:19:47pm

re: #2 Tarkus289

The "Fringe" is getting larger.

Or the normals in the GOP is getting smaller.

711 Ringo the Gringo  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:23:18pm

Soon, sanity will be the fringe.

712 horse  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:27:34pm

re: #642 SpaceJesus

compared to the average southerner, I am Steven Hawking

Depends on your definition of average. If you are talking about the average 4 year old in the south, you're probably right. If you are talking about the average 5th grader here, ahhh... not so much.

713 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:25:08pm
714 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:57:42pm

re: #713 taxfreekiller

a response,

still yet you are a dumb ass little turd,

only note you will ever receive from me

if you act stupid as you do,,often enough,, you will convince 100%

your close now

?

715 swamprat  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:03:52pm

re: #714 spacejesus

!

716 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:15:22pm

re: #714 spacejesus

He means that you're a dumbass, though everyone already knew that.

/spits

717 WestTexas  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:03:02pm

re: #652 SpaceJesus

Listen you sanctimonious little ass-hat, we here in the south work our tales off to supply the rest of the nation with refined product of all types, not to mention a large majority of the military man power. Then should I bring up the produce, chicken, beef. Oh the list could go on and on. By the way, how are those liberal state governments in the north working for you? They don't call it the rust belt for nothing. So next time you decide to put down an entire segment of society, why don't you think of the things we provide you with first. One final thought, let's just say you had your way, we would do just fine without your help. Your end might not.

718 Egregious Philbin  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:57:21pm

And a complete tick of a human, Alan Keyes is making money on this scam.

Marvin the martian commands you to be a patriot and ask for his birth certificate! (and throw $20 to him so that he can have dinner)

Nutcases. If I were Obama, I'd play this out for months, nothing like having the insane against you.

719 Syrah  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:02:36pm

re: #652 SpaceJesus

I'm actually being completely serious. The South is like an abnormal growth or tumor that has to be removed for the health of our nation.

You are such a warm a lovely person.

/

720 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:18:20pm

re: #717 WestTexas

yeehaw! what in tarnation goin on here?


actually, you're right. it just dawned on me. the problem with the south isn't the south itself, it is the southerners living there.

all we have to do is trick them into leaving (this shouldn't be very hard), then move normal people in to replace them. sheer brilliance.

721 WestTexas  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:39:48am

re: #720 SpaceJesus

GAZE asshole

722 Roger  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 9:53:19am

Um, President Obama was born on Neptune.

723 farblonjet  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 6:03:00pm

Charles writes "Research 2000 appears to be a reputable polling company."

Balderdash. at the top of the dailykos website, they are still showing their poll that barack obama has a 62 percent approval rating while the real clear politics average is tracking this at 52 percent.

Research 2000 is anything but reputable and I suspect the real number of conservatives that believe barack is not a citizen is far, far less.

At the same time, I wish the fringe right would learn to shut up. I would have thought they would have learned a lesson from the damage that the fringe left did to the democratic party pre-2004 election. Most main stream conservative columnists wish that this issue would go away. Even ann coulter thinks it is bunk! There are not too many people that are as polarizing as ann coulter.


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