Glenn Beck: ‘Cars for Clunkers’ is a Government Plot to Take Over Your Computer

Weird • Views: 8,161

Is there a point at which most reasonable people will start realizing that Glenn Beck is a raving freakazoid nut sandwich? Maybe this point?

Youtube Video

What a disgrace; this is nothing but unjustifiable fear mongering, by idiots.

(Hat tip: Hot Air.)

UPDATE at 8/1/09 10:20:53 am:

Here’s the agreement. Please note that it’s on the login page for dealers, not consumers — and it’s not even on the cars.gov site! This agreement is not intended for consumers, and it does not apply to consumers.

Here is the U.S. Department of Transportation Privacy Policy for consumers and the general public.

Although the language of the dealer’s agreement might seem a little over-zealous (a common problem in “terms of service” agreements), it’s a lot more understandable when you realize it’s intended to apply to dealers who are entering into a business agreement with the government to dispose of clunkers. And it appears on a secure website that allows dealers to log into the government’s financial system. The page is named: supplierpayments.esc.gov.

This whole “issue” is pure tin foil.

Jump to bottom

822 comments
1 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:40:03am

Oh, brother.

2 vxbush  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:40:56am

re: #1 Sharmuta

Oh, brother.

My thoughts, exactly.

3 Kronocide  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:41:48am

Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse...

4 vxbush  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:41:55am

re: #2 vxbush

My thoughts, exactly.

This is what happens when people who know *nothing* about computers and networking make ridiculous leaps of faux logic.

5 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:42:26am

Beck's whole raving paranoid fantasy is based on the terms of service for the cars.gov site. He actually seems to think the government can take over your computer just by visiting that site.

"Do not visit this site!"

Moron.

6 vxbush  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:43:29am

re: #5 Charles

Beck's whole raving paranoid fantasy is based on the terms of service for the cars.gov site. He actually seems to think the government can take over your computer just by visiting that site.

"Do not visit this site!"

Moron.

As if the government could employ someone to make a good enough rootkit that no one could get rid of? That can't be done now by those with more malicious intent.

7 freedomplow  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:44:04am

MSNBC spends it's entire day bashing republicans, their ratings are horrible.

8 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:44:21am

"I'm not suggesting..." Um- yes you are.

9 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:44:42am

Is someone going to piece together this into a catchy tune like the vampire bit? Because this ranks up there in the nuttiness. I wonder how many people tune in to see him crack up on live tv, and how many actually believe this nonsense?

Sadly, I suspect it's a fair number in both categories, and the conspiracy nuts are flourishing these days.

If you need more proof that the troof is out there, check out this nutter. If that location looks vaguely familiar, that's because that's the plaza adjacent to PATH, 7WTC, and Ground Zero. This is what I and tens of thousands of other commuters have awaiting us more than a few mornings every week. It dishonors the memories of the nearly 3,000 people murdered on 9/11 - thinking that the government was engaged in mass murder of our fellow citizens.

10 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:44:47am

And Kimberley Guilfoyle -- good grief!

"They're jumping right into you, and they're seizing all your private information!"

11 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:44:52am

There's always a big but.

12 [deleted]  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:45:34am
13 Desert Dog  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:45:38am

re: #11 Sharmuta

There's always a big but.

Or a giant ass

14 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:46:26am

re: #5 Charles

I'll tell you one group that didn't visit the cars.gov site - the IT people who put it together to check to see whether it could handle the volume of rebates being processed. Even though Congress is rushing another $2 billion to support the program, no one knows exactly how much was processed or what was left of the original $1 billion.

That's our government in action - not the nonsense that Beck is spewing.

15 Kronocide  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:47:59am

re: #10 Charles

And Kimberley Guilfoyle -- good grief!

"They're jumping right into you, and they're seizing all your private information!"

With the 'reach down into your throat and rip out your heart' hand gesture for good measure.

16 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:49:14am

"I wouldn't say that but..."

There is always a big but. This whole argument is a false presumption.

17 mfarmer1  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:49:24am

Of course it's idiotic to think that the government can do this to your personal computer and Beck is nuts here. OTOH, that warning is just as creepy. I wouldn't continue after that message just as a matter of principle. Of course, I wouldn't participate in this cars for clunkers nonsense in the first place.

18 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:49:33am

Ten million eyes on the radio?

19 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:49:33am

Also from yesterday...

The Recession Might Be Coming To An End BUT! The Depression Is Just Getting Started! Peter Schiff

Youtube Video

Peter Schiff is Ron Paul's economic advisory. Don't even try to count the factually inaccurate statements.

20 BlueCanuck  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:49:48am

Weren't we talking about this BS last night? If some people actually read a full EULA they would never install any more programs on their computer again.

21 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:49:49am

There was a discussion of this on the Clunkermania thread last night, starting here. And ending here.

22 jcm  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:49:53am

Glenn, ole buddy, ole pal...

The Government already knows just about everything about you anyway. County records, tax record, licensing records, etc...

Filing out an online form isn't gonna' tell 'em anything they don't already know.

As too taking over your computer? The Norks and ChiComs beat them to it.

// on the last line.

23 pink freud  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:49:57am

re: #15 BigPapa

With the 'reach down into your throat and rip out your heart' hand gesture for good measure.

Just the fact that she married Gavin Newsom is enough to tell you she's a few bricks shy of a full load anyway.

24 Kronocide  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:50:20am

I'm on the site right now trying to figure the hell out what they're talking about.

25 BlueCanuck  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:51:11am

re: #24 BigPapa

Check out the term of services link at the bottom of the page. Standard EULA boiler plate apparently.

26 Desert Dog  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:52:07am

More, more, more

Shumer: $2Billion More is Not Enough


I am not a math major and after 20, I run out of fingers and toes, BUT
one billion dollars has been "used up" already and they want more and more...if it's $4500 per clunker, that comes to 222,222 cars, right? 1,000,000,000 / 4500 = 222,222 Just how many cars are they selling? At that rate, Detroit will be a boomtown.

OR, is a goodly chunk of that money going to the bureaucracy that runs this boondoggle? I am guessing that for every dollar that reaches the dealers, many more are flying down a black hole.

27 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:52:28am

What does the privacy statement mean if it doesn't mean what it says?

28 American Sabra  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:53:32am

If Beck truly believes this, what does he think of the poor sap whose computer he stole?

29 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:53:42am

He called all the administration's czars "evil people". That's just outrageous.

They may be right or wrong, but "evil" is a bit of a stretch and really waters down the meaning of evil.

30 DEZes  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:54:12am

Ah crap, its Skynet.
Wheres Sarah Conner?

31 brockton808  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:54:35am

I think the fine print mentioned something about the computer and everything on it was subject to inspection at any time by the Feds. It didn't mention anything about getting access immediately, even though Beck made the leap without better knowledge of computers.

Still, why would the Feds put such draconian language in the terms of agreement?

32 Racer X  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:54:43am

We're in ur komputers, stealing all ur sekrits.

33 rwmofo  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:55:09am

re: #18 MandyManners

Ten million eyes on the radio?

We better keep 10 million eyes on Beck - and have the tranquilizer darts ready, just in case.

34 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:55:21am

The terms of service mean NOTHING. The government CAN'T "seize control" of your computer even if they wanted to.

This is a typical stupid over-zealous paragraph written by government lawyers to cover every possible base. Sure, you can point out that it's too broad, but to use this as evidence that the government has a plot to sneak into your private files is just... beyond ludicrous.

35 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:55:26am

"Wicked, crazy frightening people".

That's just shameless demonizing.

36 avanti  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:55:29am

Why did Beck caution the consumer to not go to the cars.gov web site ? The warning he talks about is only on the link to be used by dealers that signed up to get rebates from the government.
Does Beck know that fact, and is just spewing out propaganda, or is he a idiot ?

37 Racer X  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:55:42am

re: #11 Sharmuta

There's always a big but.

I thought Kimberly was cute.

38 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:56:15am

re: #37 Racer X

I thought Kimberly was cute.

Real cute to spread hysteria.

39 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:56:18am

and the ratings go through the roof...
another book
etc

40 avanti  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:56:18am

re: #24 BigPapa

I'm on the site right now trying to figure the hell out what they're talking about.

Tell them your a dealer that is signed up the rebate program.

41 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:57:13am

I worked for the DOE for 13 years, this is nothing new, anytime I was logged in from home, or from anywhere, I was beholden to some rules and regulations.

This is so when you are using any government web site and even true of many commercial web sites.

The data you are accessing does not belong to you, misuse it and they can hold you responsible for that misuse.

S.O.P.

Happens millions of times a day. Beck and his overreactive guest have no clue about what they are seeing or what they are talking about.

Of course a lawyer would agree with the EULA, since it is there, disclosed in full sight, and if you agree, then you are bound by the terms.

No different than signing a contract and then trying to break the contract. A court could order all kinds of intrusions into your private life in order to make a case against you.

Boo!

42 American Sabra  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:57:23am

re: #36 avanti

Why did Beck caution the consumer to not go to the cars.gov web site ? The warning he talks about is only on the link to be used by dealers that signed up to get rebates from the government.
Does Beck know that fact, and is just spewing out propaganda, or is he a idiot ?

... all of the above.

43 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:57:44am

re: #29 Sharmuta

He called all the administration's czars "evil people". That's just outrageous.

They may be right or wrong, but "evil" is a bit of a stretch and really waters down the meaning of evil.

I was about to comment on that very thing. That made me quite uncomfortable.

That said, I can draw an opinion on a few by reading what they've written and listening to what they've said.

44 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:58:10am

re: #36 avanti

The warning he talks about is only on the link to be used by dealers that signed up to get rebates from the government.

Really? Well, that makes it even more ridiculous, then, because that language is actually more understandable in the context of a dealer, when they'll be accepting money from the government.

45 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:58:18am

re: #33 rwmofo

We better keep 10 million eyes on Beck - and have the tranquilizer darts ready, just in case.

I ain't shooting him in the butt with one of those things.

46 coquimbojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:58:23am

The warning, whoever it goes out to, is scary. Take away whatever opinion you have of Beck, I am middle of the road on him, but that verbiage is freaking scary! Can you imagine if any department of the Government put this out under Bush?

47 rwmofo  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:58:34am

re: #34 Charles

"...to use this as evidence that the government has a plot to sneak into your private files is just..."

...another example of Obama maintaining one of Bush's nefarious programs.

/

48 bobbuck  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:58:56am

What recourse do the Feds have against someone making up an Orwellian quote like "This application provides access to the DoT CARS system. When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a Federal computer system and is the property of the U.S. Government?"

49 Racer X  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:59:15am

Beck is a clown, much the way Rush is a clown. This is entertainment - much the same way Keef Overbite is entertainment.

Beck occasionally makes a valid point. Unfortunately his lunacy cancels them out.

50 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:59:33am

re: #26 Desert Dog

Yes, I did all that math over the past two days, and it would suggest anywhere from 222,000 to 250,000 rebates were issued (average rebate was somewhere in the $4,200 range according to some reports).

In any event, the government can't tell if all $1 billion was used, a portion of the $1 billion, or how many other rebates were pending. They have no idea b/c the site to submit that information couldn't handle the load.

So, they're rushing more money even though there's no sign that this actually resulted in more sales, or just people taking advantage of the rebate to buy cars they would have bought anyways.

Mind you that credit is still tight, and those with bad credit shouldn't be getting new cars in any event (that's part of the reason the credit markets failed in the first place - giving money to people incapable of repaying).

The idea of improving gas mileage overall is a good one, but this isn't the way to do it, and there's no way to tell if this isn't going to result in lower sales once the program ends as people rushed to take advantage of the program and bought earlier so that overall sales this year aren't any different than if no rebate were offered. It may only be shifting when sales occur - not increasing the overall number.

In other words, I'm dubious that this program will do what's claimed.

51 avanti  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:59:40am

re: #41 Walter L. Newton

I worked for the DOE for 13 years, this is nothing new, anytime I was logged in from home, or from anywhere, I was beholden to some rules and regulations.

This is so when you are using any government web site and even true of many commercial web sites.

The data you are accessing does not belong to you, misuse it and they can hold you responsible for that misuse.

S.O.P.

Happens millions of times a day. Beck and his overreactive guest have no clue about what they are seeing or what they are talking about.

Of course a lawyer would agree with the EULA, since it is there, disclosed in full sight, and if you agree, then you are bound by the terms.

No different than signing a contract and then trying to break the contract. A court could order all kinds of intrusions into your private life in order to make a case against you.

Boo!

Good point all Walter, and the dealers signed away a lot of privacy rights to get into the program. The notice to dealers on the web site is just another part of that.

52 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:59:41am

re: #34 Charles

The terms of service mean NOTHING. The government CAN'T "seize control" of your computer even if they wanted to.

This is a typical stupid over-zealous paragraph written by government lawyers to cover every possible base. Sure, you can point out that it's too broad, but to use this as evidence that the government has a plot to sneak into your private files is just... beyond ludicrous.

If there is someone out there who needs watching, can the government use this clause to gather information without obtaining a search warrant first?

53 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:59:59am

re: #43 MandyManners

Honest and fair debate should be welcomed. This demonizing, however, is uncalled for and ugly.

54 coquimbojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:00:12am

re: #41 Walter L. Newton

re: #46 coquimbojoe

The warning, whoever it goes out to, is scary. Take away whatever opinion you have of Beck, I am middle of the road on him, but that verbiage is freaking scary! Can you imagine if any department of the Government put this out under Bush?

Has that always been the wording? If so, I stand corrected! Thanks for the insight.

55 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:00:23am

re: #36 avanti

Does Beck know that fact, and is just spewing out propaganda, or is he a idiot ?


C) All of the above

56 loudguitars  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:00:26am

The language is there! Words mean things. The agreements are written by lawyers. The idiots in Washington are trying to control heath care and turn it into a single payer socialized system.
The are using taxation and regulation to assert control over our lives in an ever more frightening way. Obama and his administration are changing our country. We need to wake up!

57 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:00:30am

re: #49 Racer X

Beck is a clown, much the way Rush is a clown. This is entertainment - much the same way Keef Overbite is entertainment.

Beck occasionally makes a valid point. Unfortunately his lunacy cancels them out.

But people think it's news.

58 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:00:39am

re: #27 MandyManners

What does the privacy statement mean if it doesn't mean what it says?

I'm glad that you said it, I'm confused.

59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:01:01am

Virtual Insanity...

60 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:01:07am

re: #46 coquimbojoe

The warning, whoever it goes out to, is scary. Take away whatever opinion you have of Beck, I am middle of the road on him, but that verbiage is freaking scary! Can you imagine if any department of the Government put this out under Bush?

It is standard boilerplate EULA. Guess what, if you ever visited a web site, signed on to pay your phone bill, gone to Amazon, they all have the same rights as this EULA that Beck is talking about.

Misuse their data and you are beholden to all kinds of possible legal action.

Why are you scared?

61 Racer X  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:01:25am

I do not believe this paranoia that Beck spouts. It is shameful that he is pandering to the morons out there that do believe it. He does this for money and ratings.

62 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:01:31am

re: #36 avanti

Why did Beck caution the consumer to not go to the cars.gov web site ? The warning he talks about is only on the link to be used by dealers that signed up to get rebates from the government.
Does Beck know that fact, and is just spewing out propaganda, or is he a idiot ?

Good job on the fact checking.

63 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:01:57am

re: #52 MandyManners

If there is someone out there who needs watching, can the government use this clause to gather information without obtaining a search warrant first?

No! The clause is just words. A government website cannot gain access to your private data, no how, no way.

64 Racer X  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:02:20am

re: #46 coquimbojoe

The warning, whoever it goes out to, is scary. Take away whatever opinion you have of Beck, I am middle of the road on him, but that verbiage is freaking scary! Can you imagine if any department of the Government put this out under Bush?

Good point.

65 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:02:40am

re: #36 avanti

Why did Beck caution the consumer to not go to the cars.gov web site ? The warning he talks about is only on the link to be used by dealers that signed up to get rebates from the government.
Does Beck know that fact, and is just spewing out propaganda, or is he a idiot ?

If this is accurate, it wipes out my question in No. 52.

66 coquimbojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:02:43am

re: #60 Walter L. Newton

It is standard boilerplate EULA. Guess what, if you ever visited a web site, signed on to pay your phone bill, gone to Amazon, they all have the same rights as this EULA that Beck is talking about.

Misuse their data and you are beholden to all kinds of possible legal action.

Why are you scared?

My ignorance of the issue makes me scared. The sunlight of knowledge washes away the fear. But it also makes the statement somewhat tiresome if it is unnecessary.

67 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:03:01am

Does anyone know which page that agreement is located on? Beck conveniently forgot to mention that...

68 Truck Monkey  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:03:06am

re: #49 Racer X

Beck is a clown, much the way Rush is a clown. This is entertainment - much the same way Keef Overbite is entertainment.

Beck occasionally makes a valid point. Unfortunately his lunacy cancels them out.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

69 rwmofo  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:03:25am

re: #56 loudguitars

Sixteen comments in a year and a half? What, did you just make parole?

/

70 [deleted]  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:03:33am
71 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:03:41am

re: #53 Sharmuta

Honest and fair debate should be welcomed. This demonizing, however, is uncalled for and ugly.

And, the broad brush is never accurate--it over-paints those who don't need so much paint and leaves bare those who need a lot.

72 American Sabra  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:04:01am

Beck makes valid points? With all the dribble that comes out of his mouth, how can you tell?

73 Racer X  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:04:05am

re: #57 Sharmuta

But people think it's news.

Correct. Much the same way they thought Olberman was news.

74 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:04:10am

re: #36 avanti

Why did Beck caution the consumer to not go to the cars.gov web site ? The warning he talks about is only on the link to be used by dealers that signed up to get rebates from the government.
Does Beck know that fact, and is just spewing out propaganda, or is he a idiot ?

It looks like the Dealers don't get passwords?

75 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:04:19am

re: #54 coquimbojoe

re: #46 coquimbojoe

Has that always been the wording? If so, I stand corrected! Thanks for the insight.

Yes, in those words or similar, always with the same intent. Next time you install software on your computer, or sign up for an account with a site like Amazon, read the WHOLE EULA, instead of just clicking "I Accept." You would be surprised at what you are agreeing to.

And the bottom line is, you don't agree, then you don't get to use the software or use the service.

76 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:04:31am

re: #58 opnion

I'm glad that you said it, I'm confused.

Avant's No. 36 helped clarity things.

77 avanti  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:04:36am

re: #44 Charles

Really? Well, that makes it even more ridiculous, then, because that language is actually more understandable in the context of a dealer, when they'll be accepting money from the government.

You probably can't even get through on the dealer link because it's overloaded, but you won't get past that screen without a password. Here's the consumers privacy

statement if you are not a dealer.

78 BlueCanuck  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:04:56am

re: #66 coquimbojoe

Go into any of your programs and read the End User Liscence Agreement. You would be petrified by what you read. Best part it's all CYA for the creators and sellers of the programs. If some one does anything illegal with it the person is held responsible not the company that wrote the program.

Some of the stuff in there is decades old, dating to the Cold War era.

79 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:05:09am

re: #73 Racer X

Even Olberman wasn't this bad. This is serious insanity.

80 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:05:35am

re: #63 Charles

No! The clause is just words. A government website cannot gain access to your private data, no how, no way.

Once again, LGF is fact-checking jackasses!

81 That's Glenn Beck to you  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:05:57am

Wewll my Constitutional Watchdogs are watching. Everything. Everywhere.

Just this morning one of my Constitutional Watchdogs called in from a McDonald's in Canton, Ohio. They made her Egg McMuffin wrong!

That's UnConstitutional!

82 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:06:05am

re: #70 MikeySDCA

Try idiot.

Ummm...excuse me?

83 Taqyia2Me  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:06:09am

re: #26 Desert Dog

More, more, more

Shumer: $2Billion More is Not Enough


I am not a math major and after 20, I run out of fingers and toes, BUT
one billion dollars has been "used up" already and they want more and more...if it's $4500 per clunker, that comes to 222,222 cars, right? 1,000,000,000 / 4500 = 222,222 Just how many cars are they selling? At that rate, Detroit will be a boomtown.

OR, is a goodly chunk of that money going to the bureaucracy that runs this boondoggle? I am guessing that for every dollar that reaches the dealers, many more are flying down a black hole.

"Administrative costs" or more accurately defined, "protection racket."

84 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:06:14am

where do all the clunkers go?...their motors are shot, that's a reasonable loss there and expensive to do...they have to be towed, they have to be mashed and shredded, then boxed up and shipped back somewhere for recycle...who pays for all that?

85 brockton808  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:06:18am

re: #63 Charles

The website may not be able to, but might this language more easily justify a physical seizure?

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you! :)

86 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:06:23am

re: #63 Charles

No! The clause is just words. A government website cannot gain access to your private data, no how, no way.

Now that's not true. If the government was inclined too, they could hack into your system with no less trouble than Russian or Chinese or North Korean hackers do. It's up to YOU to make sure you are protected.

Why couldn't the government hack into your system?

87 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:06:41am

re: #71 MandyManners

And, the broad brush is never accurate--it over-paints those who don't need so much paint and leaves bare those who need a lot.

Very well said, Miss Manners.

88 avanti  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:07:03am

re: #74 opnion

It looks like the Dealers don't get passwords?

They do, and the government has the right to know them, just as Beck explains. You may need a dealer password to get to Beck's scary screen, but I'm not sure.

89 Racer X  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:07:18am

re: #79 Killgore Trout

Even Olberman wasn't this bad. This is serious insanity.

No, Olberman was really bad. I'm not defending Beck - he is a lunatic. I'm smart enough to recognize that - as are most here. Olberman was just as bad, if not worse.

90 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:07:26am

re: #87 Sharmuta

Very well said, Miss Manners.

*curtsey*

91 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:07:52am

re: #76 MandyManners

Avant's No. 36 helped clarity things.

He did clarify the issue.

92 baier  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:07:59am

Glenn Beck needs to go away.

93 coquimbojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:08:49am

Beck can be clownish, reckless and foolish. I barely listen to him or watch his show. What I do know of him is that he would fight for everyone's freedom to do or be what they want. He is on the side of less government, and lower taxes, personal responsibility and freedom.

For those things, I cannot fault him. If he is making a mountain out of a molehill (with tears!) without doing all his homework, which often seems to be the MO, for that I will fault him. His conspiracy mindedness spooks me too.

94 rwmofo  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:09:02am

re: #73 Racer X

Correct. Much the same way they thought Olberman was news.

I predict that Olbermann will eventually have a "Dan Rather-type 'umm, you gotta go now'" episode. The he'll join Howard Stern on satellite radio, which will begin the fade-away.

95 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:09:16am

re: #89 Racer X

No, Olberman was really bad. I'm not defending Beck - he is a lunatic. I'm smart enough to recognize that - as are most here. Olberman was just as bad, if not worse.

It's so competitive between Beck & Olberman. It's like arguing about who is the tallest midget.

96 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:09:28am

re: #36 avanti

Why did Beck caution the consumer to not go to the cars.gov web site ? The warning he talks about is only on the link to be used by dealers that signed up to get rebates from the government.
Does Beck know that fact, and is just spewing out propaganda, or is he a idiot ?

I think you deserve more up dings for this. Just sayin'.

97 Athens Runaway  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:09:40am

So... question here.

What's with the "Racism" tag that Charles put on the thread?

98 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:09:51am

Wasn't this brought up here yesterday? Joining late if asked/answered.

99 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:10:03am

re: #79 Killgore Trout

Even Olberman wasn't this bad. This is serious insanity.

I am embarrassed to say this KT.. But for about 30 minutes I bought this story..Everybody saw it...I traced the website to a Cleveland Road runner network...I didn't check the lease on the public website...
* Red Face*
Thanks to the lizards that let me down slowly...
Yes I am stupid sometimes...

100 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:10:07am

re: #97 Athens Runaway

So... question here.

What's with the "Racism" tag that Charles put on the thread?

Ask Charles.

101 Desert Dog  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:10:39am

This program, like so many other government programs, starts with good intentions. And, like so many other government programs, it ends up screwing things up even worse than before.

This entire thing is bring back flashbacks to a program the State of Arizona did a few years ago. The state wanted people to switch to alternate fuels to wean Phoenix drivers of gasoline. A plan was hatched to give a rebate up to 40% of the cost of an SUV or Truck if they used an alternate fuel. The problems started when car dealers and a few bad apples in the legislature saw this as a good way to make a killing. The thing got out of hand and it started bleeding the state of money.

Many dealers installed phony propane tanks to these gas guzzlers and charged over full price for the vehicles. It was win-win. They dealers got top dollar (and higher) and the consumers got a big discount on an SUV and Truck.

What a mess...

Anatomy of a Debacle

102 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:11:25am

re: #86 Walter L. Newton

Now that's not true. If the government was inclined too, they could hack into your system with no less trouble than Russian or Chinese or North Korean hackers do. It's up to YOU to make sure you are protected.

Why couldn't the government hack into your system?

Because it's illegal, for one thing. For another, hacking into someone's computer just by having them visit a website is NOT a simple matter -- it's only possible with certain browsers and certain techniques, and anti-virus programs are regularly updated to protect against these techniques.

Unless you're willing to believe the NSA is using super-sekrit hacking techniques to grab info from dealers who visit cars.gov, the possibility of the government hacking into anyone's computer is vanishing small.

103 vxbush  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:11:45am

re: #99 HoosierHoops

I am embarrassed to say this KT.. But for about 30 minutes I bought this story..Everybody saw it...I traced the website to a Cleveland Road runner network...I didn't check the lease on the public website...
* Red Face*
Thanks to the lizards that let me down slowly...
Yes I am stupid sometimes...

HH, I think from time to time we all get caught up in the hysteria. That's why hysteria is so powerful--we are not immune.

104 Truck Monkey  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:11:54am

re: #97 Athens Runaway

So... question here.

What's with the "Racism" tag that Charles put on the thread?

I believe that Glenn Beck called The Teleprompter Jesus a racist this week. Maybe that is what it's about.

105 coquimbojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:12:01am

re: #92 baier

Glenn Beck needs to go away.

And deprive us of the fun we have here? As long as he doesn't veer towards racism and bashing religions, I am OK with him being, erm, out there.

106 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:12:16am

re: #99 HoosierHoops

We all fall for bogus stories at one time or another. It happens.

107 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:12:20am

why am I subsidizing people to buy new cars?...

108 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:12:21am

re: #91 opnion

He did clarify the issue.

I just up-dinged him.

109 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:12:25am

re: #97 Athens Runaway

So... question here.

What's with the "Racism" tag that Charles put on the thread?

Autofill did it. I removed that tag.

110 rwmofo  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:12:28am

re: #81 That's Glenn Beck to you

Hey Glenn. Wish you were here.

111 Desert Dog  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:12:40am

re: #79 Killgore Trout

Even Olberman wasn't this bad. This is serious insanity.

He is worse in other ways...they are both gigantic assh*les. Both pandering to the LCD and base emotions of their respective target audiences.

112 FrogMarch  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:12:56am

I'm more curious why, if this is actually what the web-site at CARS.gov says - aren't the same groups of folks who were insisting that GWB was listening in on there phone calls out there screaming?


"This application provides access to the DoT CARS system. When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a federal computer system and is the property of the US Government. Any or all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to the authorized CARS, DoT, and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencied, both domestic and foreign."
113 the historian  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:13:09am

Glen Beck clearly has a screw loose.

114 FrogMarch  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:13:38am

and now - with spell check!

"This application provides access to the DoT CARS system. When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a federal computer system and is the property of the US Government. Any or all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to the authorized CARS, DoT, and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign."

115 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:13:45am

re: #107 albusteve

why am I subsidizing people to buy new cars?...

You're making your baby unicorn cry with that question.

116 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:14:03am

re: #112 FrogMarch

I'm more curious why, if this is actually what the web-site at CARS.gov says - aren't the same groups of folks who were insisting that GWB was listening in on there phone calls out there screaming?

No. That paragraph is from the agreement for DEALERS, not the general public.

117 avanti  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:14:10am

re: #108 MandyManners

I just up-dinged him.

Mandy, a upding from you is the cherry on my Sunday :)

118 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:14:33am

Hey folks, it's not just your computer they're going to take over with this site. It's everything your own!

Beck: If you log onto this at your home, everything in your home is now theirs?

Guilfoyle: Basically, and there's nothing you can do to challenge it.

Goldberg [the voice of reason?!]: Well not your couch, just your computer.

119 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:15:01am

re: #99 HoosierHoops

I am embarrassed to say this KT.. But for about 30 minutes I bought this story..Everybody saw it...I traced the website to a Cleveland Road runner network...I didn't check the lease on the public website...
* Red Face*
Thanks to the lizards that let me down slowly...
Yes I am stupid sometimes...


Ok Hoops , a serious issue. What is your take on the White Sox picking up Peavey from San Diego? He will not be able to pitch until September, but they figure six starts for him in that month.
With Burhle, Peavey & John Danks as the 1,2,3 pitchers do you think that they should take the AL Central?

120 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:15:15am

re: #117 avanti

Mandy, a upding from you is the cherry on my Sunday :)

You drive me bonkes at times but, it would have been intellectually dishonest of me not to give props were props are due.

121 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:15:25am

re: #112 FrogMarch

They are. The Paulians, stormfront, Alex Jones and Lew Rockwell are all wound up about this. The key difference is that during the Bush years they didn't have their own cable network to spread their paranoid delusions. They do now.

122 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:15:34am

re: #120 MandyManners

{Mandy}

123 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:15:47am

re: #118 Last Mohican

Hey folks, it's not just your computer they're going to take over with this site. It's everything your own!

My spatulas, too?!

124 JHW  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:16:01am

Meanwhile, here's a couple articles on the real bad guys , Chinese 'bots. If you visit gaming sites, and some that are not even gaming sites, you've probably seen the lurid ads trying to get you to click on them.
Evony

Spamming up the Internet

125 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:16:05am

re: #118 Last Mohican

Hey folks, it's not just your computer they're going to take over with this site. It's everything your own!

Tell those bastards they microwaved my burrito to long!!!
/

126 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:16:13am

Here's the agreement -- it's on the login page for DEALERS, and it's not even on the cars.gov site!

Beck didn't mention that little bit of information.

[Link: supplierpayments.esc.gov...]

127 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:16:16am

re: #122 Sharmuta

{Mandy}

(((Sharmuta)))

128 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:16:19am

re: #123 MandyManners

My spatulas, too?!

Especially your spatulas.

129 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:16:21am

Oh, hell!

130 pink freud  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:16:44am

Palin's divorcing?

131 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:16:55am

re: #126 Charles

Here's the agreement -- it's on the login page for DEALERS. Beck didn't mention that little bit of information.

[Link: supplierpayments.esc.gov...]

He's less of an idiot than a liar by omission.

132 FrogMarch  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:16:55am

re: #116 Charles

No. That paragraph is from the agreement for DEALERS, not the general public.

Did Glen Beck and Co mention that this is for dealers only?
In any case, the language is a little startling, even for dealers.

133 BlueCanuck  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:17:02am

re: #118 Last Mohican

Hey folks, it's not just your computer they're going to take over with this site. It's everything your own!

Fear mongering. Nothing more nothing less. Glenn Beck is moving closer to Alex Jones each time he screams about stuff like this. Which means to me he is no longer a trusted news or opinion source.

134 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:17:27am

re: #130 pink freud

Palin's divorcing?

WOW!

135 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:17:31am

re: #128 Sharmuta

Especially your spatulas.

Cold, dead hands and all that.

136 Render  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:17:57am

Beck is worried the government is going to take over his computer? He doesn't know how to remove the network cable/turn off the wireless? Doesn't he pay an IT guy? Fox doesn't have an IT department that can tell him how much of an idiot he is?

Does Glenn Beck even own a computer? Know how to use one? Mac user (heh)?

Let's look at something else here...

[Link: archive.glenn...] beck.com/podcast/download.shtml

It's the Glenn Beck podcast download link (broken for obvious reasons).

Now let's look at something else...

[Link: www.premiereinteractive.com...]

That's the EULA from the bottom of that Glenn Beck podcast link...

Odd, it looks like Premiere Interactive, Clear Channel, and Glenn Beck are attempting to take over *your* computer. Why they might even be attempting to reach down your throat and steal your personal information...

*retch*

How many F-22's could the money that's gone into that clunker program have bought?

LINDSEY'S
GONE
BLOND!,
R

137 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:18:18am

So what is the point to the government warning?
What IS the purpose of the disclaimer?
Anybody know?
The only reason I can come up with is if there is intentional fraud perpetuated by a consumer their computer and files belong to the government to be used in a prosecution?

138 Taqyia2Me  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:18:47am

re: #130 pink freud

Palin's divorcing?

Oh great, a new feeding frenzy of Sarah bashing.
/

139 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:19:02am

re: #102 Charles

Because it's illegal, for one thing. For another, hacking into someone's computer just by having them visit a website is NOT a simple matter -- it's only possible with certain browsers and certain techniques, and anti-virus programs are regularly updated to protect against these techniques.

Unless you're willing to believe the NSA is using super-sekrit hacking techniques to grab info from dealers who visit cars.gov, the possibility of the government hacking into anyone's computer is vanishing small.

No where did I say they are doing it, or even inclined to do it. But, your statement " A government website cannot gain access to your private data, no how, no way." is just not true.

If they wanted, they could, no more or less difficult than North Korean hackers doing it like they did a few weeks ago, or any other hacking story we have read about over the years.

Sorry, our computer security director at the DOE lab where I worked could do all sorts of things, it was his job to know how.

140 pink freud  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:19:03am

re: #138 Taqyia2Me

Oh great, a new feeding frenzy of Sarah bashing.
/

Yep.

141 American Sabra  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:19:22am

re: #93 coquimbojoe

Beck can be clownish, reckless and foolish. I barely listen to him or watch his show. What I do know of him is that he would fight for everyone's freedom to do or be what they want. He is on the side of less government, and lower taxes, personal responsibility and freedom.

For those things, I cannot fault him. If he is making a mountain out of a molehill (with tears!) without doing all his homework, which often seems to be the MO, for that I will fault him. His conspiracy mindedness spooks me too.

This is really a fallacy. When a person like Beck goes out of his way to make such ludicrous statements, you can't trust anything he's saying even if he appears to be on your side. His whole schtick amounts to scare tactics and if someone has to frighten you into believing their ideology, there's something terribly wrong with it.

142 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:19:27am

re: #137 BlueRoses

So what is the point to the government warning?
What IS the purpose of the disclaimer?
Anybody know?
The only reason I can come up with is if there is intentional fraud perpetuated by a consumer their computer and files belong to the government to be used in a prosecution?

Look at Avanti's No. 36.

143 Truck Monkey  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:19:30am

re: #130 pink freud

Palin's divorcing?

It seems, if the story is true, that she is moving to Montana to be closer to me.
//

144 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:19:45am

re: #119 opnion

Ok Hoops , a serious issue. What is your take on the White Sox picking up Peavey from San Diego? He will not be able to pitch until September, but they figure six starts for him in that month.
With Burhle, Peavey & John Danks as the 1,2,3 pitchers do you think that they should take the AL Central?

Being a life long NL Giants fan...I have seen SD go through baseball hell.
Is there not baseball GM in all America that can save SD? I nominate myself to save the fair city...What Doughheads!

145 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:19:50am

re: #116 Charles

No. That paragraph is from the agreement for DEALERS, not the general public.

Ok that clears some of it up. But not all. Just what is the purpose of the warning?

146 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:20:14am

re: #126 Charles

Here's the agreement -- it's on the login page for DEALERS. Beck didn't mention that little bit of information.

[Link: supplierpayments.esc.gov...]

Maybe worth an update?

147 avanti  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:20:46am

re: #84 albusteve

where do all the clunkers go?...their motors are shot, that's a reasonable loss there and expensive to do...they have to be towed, they have to be mashed and shredded, then boxed up and shipped back somewhere for recycle...who pays for all that?

The dealer get $50 to drain the oil and kill the engine with a sand mixture out of the scrap value. The dealer gives you the rest and the scrapper gets to sell anything nor related to the drive line. i.e. the scrap dealer pays $250, the dealer keeps $50, you get $200 and the scap dealer makes what profit he can. 0%earaer aer

148 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:21:15am

re: #138 Taqyia2Me

Oh great, a new feeding frenzy of Sarah bashing.
/

If this is true, it will just prove that she's White Trash. Nobody els has ever gotten a divorce.
I would take this with a grain of salt.

149 rightymouse  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:21:35am

re: #134 Sharmuta

WOW!


Check out the source of that story. It's linked.

150 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:21:35am

re: #141 American Sabra

This is really a fallacy. When a person like Beck goes out of his way to make such ludicrous statements, you can't trust anything he's saying even if he appears to be on your side. His whole schtick amounts to scare tactics and if someone has to frighten you into believing their ideology, there's something terribly wrong with it.

Ratings my friend ratings is what it is all about.

151 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:22:39am

re: #144 HoosierHoops

Being a life long NL Giants fan...I have seen SD go through baseball hell.
Is there not baseball GM in all America that can save SD? I nominate myself to save the fair city...What Doughheads!

Hooops! I asked about the Sox, does this in your opinion position them to take the division?

152 Racer X  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:22:43am

re: #130 pink freud

Palin's divorcing?

That is a "hate Palin" site. I'll wait for independent confirmation.

153 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:22:52am

re: #67 Charles

Does anyone know which page that agreement is located on? Beck conveniently forgot to mention that...

Charles, right here:

[Link: www.cars.gov...]

Click on "register."

Here's the inititial statement (in full):

This notice is provided pursuant to the Privacy Act of 1974, 5 USC § 552a: This information is solicited under the authority of Public Law 111-32, 123 Stat. 1859. Furnishing the information is voluntary, but failure to provide all or part of the information may result in disapproval of your request for a credit on this purchase or lease transaction under the Cars Program. The principal purposes for collecting the information are to determine if purchase or lease transactions are eligible for credits under the CARS Program, to ensure proper disposal of trade-in vehicles, to prevent, identify and penalize fraud in connection with the Program, and to update an existing government database of Vehicle Identification Numbers. If you complete the optional survey, the survey information will be used to report to Congress on the Program. Other routine uses are published in the Federal Register at 65 F.R. 19476 (April 11, 2000), available at: [Link: www.dot.gov...]

Ensuring transaction security is a crucial requirement of NHTSA-CARS clients. Using industry-standard security techniques ensures that your personal and financial information remains confidential. NHTSA-CARS uses security technologies that include your personal customer number and password, government standard encryption, and hardened perimeter protections such as firewalls and intrusion detection systems. The combination of your customer number and password enables you to be uniquely identified to NHTSA-CARS transaction processing. It is your responsibility to keep your password secure. Compromising your password by sharing it with others can have negative consequences for the integrity of your transactions. You will also need to use a secure browser. Certain browsers have the ability to communicate securely by encrypting the information as it passes across the Internet. This method of communication is called Secure Socket Layer (SSL). NHTSA requires the use of a properly configured browser as a condition for connecting to NHTSA-CARS using SSL. Therefore, SSL must be enabled on your browser to establish a connection with NHTSA-CARS. Additionally, be aware that your transaction passes through multiple security mechanisms, any one of which can halt the transaction if suspicious activity coming from your computer is detected. To avoid this from happening, please keep your anti-virus software on your computer current.

Your Internet Browser - How to Ensure That Your Session is Secure Once you've downloaded and installed your browser, here's how you can check for yourself that your Online Banking session is secure. As you browse through the resources available on the Internet, you'll notice that your browser's status bar changes with the Web page you have loaded. You should see a padlock graphic, either locked or unlocked, like this:
Secure UnSecure Microsoft Internet Explorer N/A Mozilla Firefox

Looks like SOP.

154 Render  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:23:10am

re: #86 Walter L. Newton

That's easy. I control the only external access.

PULL
THE
PLUG,
R

155 Throbert McGee  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:23:20am

re: #17 mfarmer1

Of course it's idiotic to think that the government can do this to your personal computer and Beck is nuts here. OTOH, that warning is just as creepy.

Um, what exactly is "creepy" about full disclosure, fair warning, and transparency? A lot of folks (including Glenn Beck, obviously) seem to have things bass-ackwards on this: there's nothing creepy about the government explicitly pointing out each and every string that might be attached to the "Cars for Clunkers" program.

On the contrary, what would be creepy is if the cars.com site said "Discretion and confidentiality are assured -- we're all friends here, right?"

156 American Sabra  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:23:29am

re: #150 BlueRoses

Ratings my friend ratings is what it is all about.

Indeed. And that's ALL Beck is about.

157 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:23:41am

re: #149 rightymouse

Check out the source of that story. It's linked.

Moralminority and Nationalenquirer.

158 justdanny  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:23:52am

re: #102 Charles

Because it's illegal, for one thing.


Laws have never stopped our government before.
Not commenting on the rest of this story. Just sayin..

159 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:24:37am

re: #158 justdanny

Laws have never stopped our government before.
Not commenting on the rest of this story. Just sayin..

Justdanny is just sayin'!

(I couldn't resist.)

160 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:24:37am

re: #134 Sharmuta

That's not surprising. I didn't like her as a politician but I think it's pretty clear that she melted down. I do feel bad for her.

161 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:24:48am

re: #151 opnion

Hooops! I asked about the Sox, does this in your opinion position them to take the division?

LOL
I noticed..I got side tracked on SD...
I think with Peavy there is a chance to be in the playoffs...We will be healthy in Sept.. Dangerous team...They won a WS with pitching once...

162 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:25:09am

re: #154 Render

That's easy. I control the only external access.

PULL
THE
PLUG,
R

That's not the point. Of course you can pull the plug. But Charles said " A government website cannot gain access to your private data, no how, no way." He didn't say the couldn't if your computer was off.

We are talking about computers that are online, evidently, or else this would be a moot point.

163 FrogMarch  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:25:23am

re: #153 Gus 802

That's pretty standard.

Where did Glen Beck get what he read out loud on the tV?

164 avanti  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:25:34am

re: #145 BlueRoses

Ok that clears some of it up. But not all. Just what is the purpose of the warning?

Not a lawyer, but I assume it's to prevent fraud. If a dealer tries to scam the system via his computer, he's given the government the right to inspect his CFC files in the event of fraud.

165 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:25:52am

re: #149 rightymouse

Check out the source of that story. It's linked.

I just wasn't expecting that to be a possible situation. Time will tell if it's true or not, so I'll withhold any further speculation.

166 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:25:58am

re: #134 Sharmuta

WOW!

I liked Sarah Palin but that does it. Anyone who wants to divorce that hunk needs her head examined :))

167 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:26:03am

re: #163 FrogMarch

That's pretty standard.

Where did Glen Beck get what he read out loud on the tV?

I think that's after you register.

It's an application as mentioned above.

168 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:26:15am

re: #153 Gus 802

That's not the agreement Beck is raving about ...

169 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:26:23am

re: #121 Killgore Trout

They are. The Paulians, stormfront, Alex Jones and Lew Rockwell are all wound up about this. The key difference is that during the Bush years they didn't have their own cable network to spread their paranoid delusions. They do now.

Fox was available to them through the Bush years - the Fox network didn't spring forth fully clothed from the head of Rupert Murdoch the day after the Obama election victory. It's been there. Only now, people are taking a closer look at the nuts that are inhabiting some of the key timeslots.

But for sheer crazy, how about the rest of the media outlets that were serving up anti-Bush claptrap 24/7/365 for eight straight years (and in some instances, are still going strong so as to blame Bush for everything that Obama is now doing). The NYT was busy claiming that the Administration was violating the US Constitution at every turn, when in fact that was not the case - they were claiming the rights of US citizens were violated when the NSA was listening in on conversations coming from out of the US from terrorists.

CNN, WaPo, MSNBC all spewed a variety of the same kinds of nonsense.

And more specifically, there's Keith Olbermann, who Beck actually makes seem somewhat coherent in comparison.

The crazy stupid is strong in the broadcast media.

170 pink freud  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:26:30am

re: #160 Killgore Trout

That's not surprising. I didn't like her as a politician but I think it's pretty clear that she melted down. I do feel bad for her.

Nothing I've seen tells me she has melted down. She still appears to be quite viable (although I have seen numerous attempts to portray her as otherwise).

171 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:26:42am

A link to the page with the language Beck was reading:

[Link: supplierpayments.esc.gov...]

172 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:26:45am

re: #168 Charles

That's not the agreement Beck is raving about ...

Yeah, you have to register.

173 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:26:54am

re: #166 BlueRoses

I liked Sarah Palin but that does it. Anyone who wants to divorce that hunk needs her head examined :))

maybe he beats her...they do that on TV soap operas

174 Liberal Classic  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:26:56am

Jalopnik.com has a lot of interesting coverage of the Cash for Clunkers program.

[Link: jalopnik.com...]

IMO, it's a wasteful program that will do nothing in the long run to address pollution or climate change. It is not, however, any kind of crazy conspiracy. It is merely more of the same feel-good clap-trap that so often comes out of Washington D.C.

If anyone has a Mazda RX7, Toyota Supra, or Acura NSX in good running condition, I'll happily take it off your hands for $4500. I won't even replace the engine oil with sodium metasilicate and sieze the engine. :)

175 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:27:18am

re: #171 Charles

A link to the page with the language Beck was reading:

[Link: supplierpayments.esc.gov...]

Oh, there it is. :)

176 coquimbojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:27:18am

re: #141 American Sabra

This is really a fallacy. When a person like Beck goes out of his way to make such ludicrous statements, you can't trust anything he's saying even if he appears to be on your side. His whole schtick amounts to scare tactics and if someone has to frighten you into believing their ideology, there's something terribly wrong with it.

I disagree, I have heard him mock himself about his conspiracy mindedness (hasn't stopped him though). But the fact is he is for personal freedom and responsibility. He chooses to exercise that in his own strange way, but he would never deny you your freedoms. That is something one can easily see.

His stories should be questioned, they are often questionable or ludicrous, obviously. That doesn't mean he works to deny freedom. Other bloviators like Olberman are always pushing for more Government to regulate our lives. Those are the ones that really worry me. Implementation of their ideas always leads to less freedom. Beck doesn't do that.

To me that is his silver lining.

177 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:27:40am

re: #166 BlueRoses

I liked Sarah Palin but that does it. Anyone who wants to divorce that hunk needs her head examined :))

What? What if he is abusing her, or something really wrong. You'd stay married to him? We don't know what the problem is, but your blanket statement does no service to women who need to get out of an abusive relationship.

178 itellu3times  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:27:42am

re: #20 BlueCanuck

Weren't we talking about this BS last night? If some people actually read a full EULA they would never install any more programs on their computer again.

I have some sympathy for this kind of rant by Glenn Beck, because it reflects the kind of bad lawyering that is all around. Let's break it down.

Sure, you read some EULAs, and you would not agree, if you read them, which you don't, and if they were binding, which is dubious, and if they were enforceable, which is very dubious.

Same with this idiotic text on cars.gov. What they *meant* is that "this discussion may be recorded". But some morons over-lawyered it, probably non-lawyers cutting and pasting or just making shit up. I do a lot of contract work, and I actually read the contracts befores signing, and the ridiculous crap I find all the time is just incredible.

In fact, along those lines, my favorite these days are the "indemnification" clauses, that you will indemnify and defend at your expense some big company owning a web site if they are sued because of something to do with your use of that site. Any attorneys out there have any idea if that is enforceable, in California or elsewhere? It's certainly not equitable. If some nut sues Yahoo for a billion dollars because they read my post on a newsgroup that used the word "booger", sorry, I'm not paying Yahoo's legal fees, modest though they may be under the circumstances. Similar stuff on my contracts, I'm hired for five days to write a widget for some appendage of Giganticorp and paid twelve dollars for the effort, but the contract says I must indemnify them and defend at my (unlimited) expense if as a result of using the widget Giganticorp is sued. I usually ask them to drop the entire section, and if they won't do that, I require they limit my liability to the amount paid, and if they won't do that I generally walk away. Not sure if I've really had to walk away from any serious contracts, but have avoided using some web sites that had such stupid language.

So, anyway, go get'm, Glenn.

179 Racer X  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:27:46am

re: #170 pink freud

Nothing I've seen tells me she has melted down. She still appears to be quite viable (although I have seen numerous attempts to portray her as otherwise).

That divorce report is bogus. Google turns up one news article - the Palin hater site.

180 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:27:57am

re: #161 HoosierHoops

LOL
I noticed..I got side tracked on SD...
I think with Peavy there is a chance to be in the playoffs...We will be healthy in Sept.. Dangerous team...They won a WS with pitching once...

Good man, exactly the answer that I wanted . As you were.

181 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:28:55am

re: #34 Charles

The terms of service mean NOTHING. The government CAN'T "seize control" of your computer even if they wanted to.

This is a typical stupid over-zealous paragraph written by government lawyers to cover every possible base. Sure, you can point out that it's too broad, but to use this as evidence that the government has a plot to sneak into your private files is just... beyond ludicrous.

I suspect they are trying to cover themselves in case they come across clunkers that were stolen and they have to act on it. Also note that there are provisions in most of these "scrappage" laws that mandate destroying the engine to ensure that it doesn't go back to the road. They might be covering themselves for searching for VINs etc.

It's definitely idiot terminology and boilerplate, probably dreamed up by a Debbie Stabenow staffer. I don't think it would hold up if the gov actually went after info that you did not submit, but they also want to make sure you are who you say you are and are probably checking certificates on your computer, just as software makers do anytime you buy software over the network. Is Glen freaking over that? no.

182 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:29:01am

re: #139 Walter L. Newton

No where did I say they are doing it, or even inclined to do it. But, your statement " A government website cannot gain access to your private data, no how, no way." is just not true.

If they wanted, they could, no more or less difficult than North Korean hackers doing it like they did a few weeks ago, or any other hacking story we have read about over the years.

Sorry, our computer security director at the DOE lab where I worked could do all sorts of things, it was his job to know how.

The point is that it's NOT a simple matter for anyone to gain control of a computer, simply by having it visit a web page. If a hacker targets your computer specifically, of course there are ways to get in almost any system. But the claim that Beck is pushing is that you're doomed if you simply visit the cars.gov website. That's just wrong.

183 pink freud  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:29:07am

re: #179 Racer X

That divorce report is bogus. Google turns up one news article - the Palin hater site.

Not surprising. I shouldn't even have posted it here. Thanks.

184 FrogMarch  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:29:34am

re: #171 Charles

A link to the page with the language Beck was reading:

[Link: supplierpayments.esc.gov...]

You dared go there?! Oh noes. ///

185 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:30:36am

re: #171 Charles

A link to the page with the language Beck was reading:

[Link: supplierpayments.esc.gov...]

By the way, here's a similar warning mentioned in a PDF over at Sandia Labs.

Any or all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to authorized Sandia National Laboratories, Department of Energy, and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign. By using this system, the user consents to such interception, monitoring, recording, copying, auditing, inspection, and disclosure at the discretion of Sandia National Laboratories or the Department of Energy personnel.

[Link: www.sandia.gov...]

The document is dated 2004.

;)

186 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:30:47am

re: #170 pink freud

Nothing I've seen tells me she has melted down. She still appears to be quite viable (although I have seen numerous attempts to portray her as otherwise).

I agree with you, she may have miscalulated by resigning, but it was not a melt down.
I'm not buying the divorce story either. How about that the have both had affairs?
Does anybody think that the Obama smear machine led by Emanuel wouldn't have jumped on that?

187 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:30:55am

re: #158 justdanny

Is is remotely possible that the government could do as Beck claimed? Yes. But as we've already seen from the fact that the cars.gov rebate site engaged in an epic fail to handle the traffic, it appears that they can't handle routine e-commerce properly, so to ascribe that they can suddenly hack into thousands of computer systems to search for data is far-fetched to say the least.

If you engage in any kind of e-commerce online, you're providing those sites with all manner of information to verify who you are, to enable cookies to persist to speed processing of transactions, to secure the transaction, etc.

Frankly, I'm more concerned about the failure of the gov't to process the rebates properly than I am with this claimed nonsense about hacking into car dealer computers.

188 Truck Monkey  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:31:08am

re: #179 Racer X

That divorce report is bogus. Google turns up one news article - the Palin hater site.

So I really don't have a shot at her do I.
/Maybe Jennifer Anniston is available.

189 avanti  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:31:17am

re: #183 pink freud

Not surprising. I shouldn't even have posted it here. Thanks.

Yep, no sign of that story anywhere, and that would rate a news break on Fox for example.

190 rightymouse  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:31:23am

re: #157 MandyManners

Moralminority and Nationalenquirer.

I'll wait for Sarah to say one way or another.

191 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:31:45am

re: #182 Charles

The point is that it's NOT a simple matter for anyone to gain control of a computer, simply by having it visit a web page. If a hacker targets your computer specifically, of course there are ways to get in almost any system. But the claim that Beck is pushing is that you're doomed if you simply visit the cars.gov website. That's just wrong.

Once again, I am not talking about Beck's claim. He's a nut. I am talking about your statement and only your statement (and only this part of your longer comment) "A government website cannot gain access to your private data, no how, no way."

Not true, not in the plain simple language you used. If they were inclined to, they could. Period.

192 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:32:03am

Again, please note! The language Glenn Beck is raving about in the video above is ONLY FOR DEALERS, who are taking money from the government in the clunkers program.

NOT for consumers. Beck is not even in the ball park this time.

193 coquimbojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:32:29am

re: #189 avanti

Yep, no sign of that story anywhere, and that would rate a news break on Fox for example.

I went to Drudge, if it were true, he would likely have had a few people calling with the scoop.

194 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:32:54am

Later gators

195 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:33:20am

re: #185 Gus 802

[Link: www.sandia.gov...]

The document is dated 2004.

;)

Looks like standard boilerplate, any military out there who can give us the security warning lingo on military comp networks? Betting it's similar

196 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:33:34am

re: #190 rightymouse

I'll wait for Sarah to say one way or another.

I will too. I'm just surprised because the possibility wasn't on my radar at all.

197 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:33:42am

Princeton Plasma Physics lab:

Security Notice:
The Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory (PPPL) is operated by Princeton University for the United States Department of Energy (DOE). As such the following rules apply:

This web site is part of a Federal computer system used to accomplish Federal functions. The Department of Energy monitors this web site for security purposes to ensure it remains available to all users and to protect information in the system. Users (authorized or unauthorized) have no explicit or implicit expectation of privacy. By accessing this web site, you are expressively consenting to these monitoring activities.

Any or all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to authorized site, Department of Energy, and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign. By using this system, the user consents to such interception, monitoring, recording, copying, auditing, inspection, and disclosure at the discretion of authorized site or Department of Energy personnel.

[Link: ippex.pppl.gov...]

198 Taqyia2Me  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:34:02am

re: #180 opnion

Good man, exactly the answer that I wanted . As you were.

Ozzie Guillen on pitching, "...You've got to have the horses..."

199 rightymouse  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:34:09am

re: #165 Sharmuta

I just wasn't expecting that to be a possible situation. Time will tell if it's true or not, so I'll withhold any further speculation.

The source is a Palin hater. I'm withholding speculation too.

200 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:34:22am

re: #195 Thanos

Looks like standard boilerplate, any military out there who can give us the security warning lingo on military comp networks? Betting it's similar

Right. I get a lot of warnings from time to time at military sites.

201 itellu3times  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:34:56am

re: #187 lawhawk

Is is remotely possible that the government could do as Beck claimed? Yes. But as we've already seen from the fact that the cars.gov rebate site engaged in an epic fail to handle the traffic, it appears that they can't handle routine e-commerce properly, so to ascribe that they can suddenly hack into thousands of computer systems to search for data is far-fetched to say the least.

If you engage in any kind of e-commerce online, you're providing those sites with all manner of information to verify who you are, to enable cookies to persist to speed processing of transactions, to secure the transaction, etc.

Frankly, I'm more concerned about the failure of the gov't to process the rebates properly than I am with this claimed nonsense about hacking into car dealer computers.

I suppose the alleged fear is that, having clicked on that page, the government may send black helicopters full of blue helmets who will knock on your door, hold up a copy of your usage of the site that followed the click, and then politely ask to scan your computer for pr0n, and you will have to let them in, tracking mud across your clean carpet, if nothing worse.

202 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:35:03am

re: #191 Walter L. Newton

Once again, I am not talking about Beck's claim. He's a nut. I am talking about your statement and only your statement (and only this part of your longer comment) "A government website cannot gain access to your private data, no how, no way."

Not true, not in the plain simple language you used. If they were inclined to, they could. Period.

The claim was that any computer could be taken over, just by visiting the cars.gov site -- and that's simply not true.

203 pink freud  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:35:21am

re: #189 avanti

Yep, no sign of that story anywhere, and that would rate a news break on Fox for example.

To be completely objective, the Edwards story rated national coverage yet they all ignored it.

204 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:35:44am

We have similar warnings where I work, if you get on our network you belong to us until you leave.

205 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:36:05am

US Code:

1030. Fraud and related activity in connection with computers

(a) Whoever—

(1) having knowingly accessed a computer without authorization or exceeding authorized access, and by means of such conduct having obtained information that has been determined by the United States Government pursuant to an Executive order or statute to require protection against unauthorized disclosure for reasons of national defense or foreign relations, or any restricted data, as defined in paragraph y. of section 11 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, with reason to believe that such information so obtained could be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation willfully communicates, delivers, transmits, or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it;

...

206 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:36:07am

re: #10 Charles

And Kimberley Guilfoyle -- good grief!

"They're jumping right into you, and they're seizing all your private information!"

Like I've always said--while I'm opposed on principle to having my phone tapped, if the government really wants to listen in on hour-long conversations with my mom and girlfriends about who's pregnant, leaving her job, and the best colors for the bridesmaids, have at it.

/

207 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:36:26am

re: #192 Charles

Again, please note! The language Glenn Beck is raving about in the video above is ONLY FOR DEALERS, who are taking money from the government in the clunkers program.

NOT for consumers. Beck is not even in the ball park this time.

How the hell could Mr. Beck and Fox News miss that salient fact? Any idiot can see it right there on that site! "authorized users only" - duh. Plus how could they, as a news org, not know the difference between logged in to a secure site and not logged in?

This seems too freaking stupid to be just stupidity. I'm starting to think they're in a parallel universe.

208 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:37:09am

re: #192 Charles

Again, please note! The language Glenn Beck is raving about in the video above is ONLY FOR DEALERS, who are taking money from the government in the clunkers program.

NOT for consumers. Beck is not even in the ball park this time.

In the video it (conveniently) wouldn't come up for Beck when he tried to get there from cars.gov, but his graphic says that's where it comes from.

209 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:37:11am

re: #206 SanFranciscoZionist

Like I've always said--while I'm opposed on principle to having my phone tapped, if the government really wants to listen in on hour-long conversations with my mom and girlfriends about who's pregnant, leaving her job, and the best colors for the bridesmaids, have at it.

/

wrong

210 itellu3times  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:37:46am

re: #207 Cattt

This seems too freaking stupid to be just stupidity. I'm starting to think they're in a parallel universe.

Not quite parallel, I think theirs is slanted and bent.

211 avanti  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:37:46am

re: #203 pink freud

To be completely objective, the Edwards story rated national coverage yet they all ignored it.

As a leftie, do you then the MSM would ignore a Palin scandal ? It's barely possible it's a rumor that could turn out to have some truth, but the 24 hour rule applies.

212 Racer X  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:38:07am

Glenn Beck you stupid sonofabitch. The Cars for Clunkers program is a disaster on it's own. There is no need to hyperventilate over a make believe government conspiracy to steal files off your computer.

Way to go asswipe.

These idiots are starting to piss me off. They are making sane people on the right less believable every day.

213 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:39:12am

re: #49 Racer X

Beck is a clown, much the way Rush is a clown. This is entertainment - much the same way Keef Overbite is entertainment.

Beck occasionally makes a valid point. Unfortunately his lunacy cancels them out.

I suppose it scares me a bit that our idea of entertainment (at least some of us) has become people telling us scary lies about the government.

214 coquimbojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:39:30am

re: #204 Thanos

We have similar warnings where I work, if you get on our network you belong to us until you leave.

At my work our statement says: '"All your networks, computers, cat food and couches are belong to us". Not elegant but effective.

215 Truck Monkey  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:39:38am

re: #203 pink freud

To be completely objective, the Edwards story rated national coverage yet they all ignored it.

But Edwards has a D after his name, so a story of philandering and an out of wedlock birth while your wife is dying of cancer deserves no mention at all. In fact, the story should be supressed. Sarah has an R after her name so a story of rumored affairs or an actress playing you seeing Alaska from your porch deserves front page above the fold coverage.

216 rightymouse  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:39:55am

re: #196 Sharmuta

I will too. I'm just surprised because the possibility wasn't on my radar at all.

Not on my radar either.

217 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:40:07am

re: #171 Charles

The language on that page can be broken down as follows:
Paragraph 1: You're accessing a government computer system, so when you're connected to the gov't system, you have to abide by government rules.
Paragraph 2: We reserve the right to check all information against law enforcement to prevent fraud (to a fault perhaps).
Paragraph 3: Penalites (well, what'd you expect if you violate 1 or 2)
Paragraph 4: If you try to circumvent existing security protocols or access the system illegally, you're subject to civil and criminal penalties.

Of all that's there, paragraph 2 is the one that raises an eyebrow. It's overlawyered to a fault, but it's prevalent at nearly all government websites.

For example, Los Alamos Natl Lab:

Any or all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to authorized site, Department of Energy, and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign. By using this system, the user consents to such interception, monitoring, recording, copying, auditing, inspection, and disclosure at the discretion of authorized site or Department of Energy personnel.

Swap Cars.gov for that, and we're talking the same disclaimer.

218 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:40:17am

okay watching that hurt my brain...

219 sngnsgt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:40:41am

I think Beck is more a circus performer than he is a news reporter.

220 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:40:51am

Most of the "public" .gov webservers and services are in the Demilitarized zone of the government network. Because this is a transaction, and has private information they are taking it to the internal zone past the firewalls, and can't do it in the demilitarized zone because it has to be totally secure.

221 American Sabra  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:40:58am

re: #176 coquimbojoe

I disagree, I have heard him mock himself about his conspiracy mindedness (hasn't stopped him though). But the fact is he is for personal freedom and responsibility. He chooses to exercise that in his own strange way, but he would never deny you your freedoms. That is something one can easily see.

His stories should be questioned, they are often questionable or ludicrous, obviously. That doesn't mean he works to deny freedom. Other bloviators like Olberman are always pushing for more Government to regulate our lives. Those are the ones that really worry me. Implementation of their ideas always leads to less freedom. Beck doesn't do that.

To me that is his silver lining.

I don't think so. Basically you're saying Beck is the kind of fellow who agrees with the mantra "I may not agree with you, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." And that's not Beck at all. Not from what I can see.

Our freedoms are such that Nazis got a permit to march on Skokie so many years ago. In Beck's freedom loving world, would he allow such a thing? I hardly think so. Or maybe you can show me a similar analogy where Beck truly supported the American idea of freedom of speech.

222 coquimbojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:41:02am

re: #212 Racer X

Glenn Beck you stupid sonofabitch. The Cars for Clunkers program is a disaster on it's own. There is no need to hyperventilate over a make believe government conspiracy to steal files off your computer.

Way to go asswipe.

These idiots are starting to piss me off. They are making sane people on the right less believable every day.

Deep breaths, there you go, let it all out. Now, once again from the top so you can be clear as to your feelings. You're in a safe place, everybody here loves you. Go ahead, don't be shy...

/

223 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:41:15am

re: #212 Racer X

Glenn Beck you stupid sonofabitch. The Cars for Clunkers program is a disaster on it's own. There is no need to hyperventilate over a make believe government conspiracy to steal files off your computer.

Way to go asswipe.

These idiots are starting to piss me off. They are making sane people on the right less believable every day.

any reasonable conservative should be discussing the legitimacy of this commie program to begin with...therefore Beck is a misleading fraud drooling at a shiny object...he is worse than worthless...he is a danger to conservatism

224 Racer X  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:41:22am

The government clunkers program is a total mess. How hard was it to implement? Its now going to cost 2-3 times the original estimates - or more. No one knows.

And these assholes want to run our nations healthcare?

225 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:41:53am

re: #217 lawhawk

The language on that page can be broken down as follows:
Paragraph 1: You're accessing a government computer system, so when you're connected to the gov't system, you have to abide by government rules.
Paragraph 2: We reserve the right to check all information against law enforcement to prevent fraud (to a fault perhaps).
Paragraph 3: Penalites (well, what'd you expect if you violate 1 or 2)
Paragraph 4: If you try to circumvent existing security protocols or access the system illegally, you're subject to civil and criminal penalties.

Of all that's there, paragraph 2 is the one that raises an eyebrow. It's overlawyered to a fault, but it's prevalent at nearly all government websites.

For example, Los Alamos Natl Lab:

Swap Cars.gov for that, and we're talking the same disclaimer.

Exactly. And the inclusion of foreign law enforcement into the wording goes back many years. However, the conspiracy nuts are taking that ball and running with it.

226 JPL17  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:41:59am

re: #204 Thanos

We have similar warnings where I work, if you get on our network you belong to us until you leave.

All your data are belong to us.

227 NukeAtomrod  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:42:13am

re: #34 Charles

This is a typical stupid over-zealous paragraph written by government lawyers to cover every possible base. Sure, you can point out that it's too broad, but to use this as evidence that the government has a plot to sneak into your private files is just... beyond ludicrous.

Absolutely true. However, if the government did decide to hack your computer after you agreed to this TOS, this would give them a legal defense for doing so. Still, it's a paranoid fantasy that the government planned it that way.

228 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:42:43am

re: #217 lawhawk

Thanks for posting that translation.

229 avanti  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:43:03am

re: #217 lawhawk

Swap Cars.gov for that, and we're talking the same disclaimer.

So will we see Beck give Charles and the Lizards a thank you for correcting his story ?

230 coquimbojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:43:08am

re: #221 American Sabra

I don't think so. Basically you're saying Beck is the kind of fellow who agrees with the mantra "I may not agree with you, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." And that's not Beck at all. Not from what I can see.

Our freedoms are such that Nazis got a permit to march on Skokie so many years ago. In Beck's freedom loving world, would he allow such a thing? I hardly think so. Or maybe you can show me a similar analogy where Beck truly supported the American idea of freedom of speech.

I see him exactly opposite as you do. He is for freedom in my book. Crazy, crazy freedom.

231 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:43:13am

re: #130 pink freud

Palin's divorcing?

Oh, for the Lord's sake.

232 Truck Monkey  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:43:16am

re: #224 Racer X

The government clunkers program is a total mess. How hard was it to implement? Its now going to cost 2-3 times the original estimates - or more. No one knows.

And these assholes want to run our nations healthcare?

Delivered with DMV type efficiency. What could go wrong?

233 justdanny  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:43:28am

re: #187 lawhawk

Not getting involved in the discussion. I only wanted to point out that the US government doesnt see law as a barrier preventing them from doing what they want. I know its a very broad statement, but its no less true.

234 Taqyia2Me  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:43:43am

re: #212 Racer X

Glenn Beck you stupid sonofabitch. The Cars for Clunkers program is a disaster on it's own. There is no need to hyperventilate over a make believe government conspiracy to steal files off your computer.

Way to go asswipe.

These idiots are starting to piss me off. They are making sane people on the right less believable every day.

Let's start a 'Get A Grip For Chrissakes, Glenn!!!' club.

Meanwhile lefty whackjobs in actual power are actually doing their very best to destroy the world economy without regard for the consequences.

235 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:44:15am

re: #210 itellu3times

Not quite parallel, I think theirs is slanted and bent.

For some reason, that made me think of this old Lucy and Desi movie.

Youtube Video
237 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:44:27am

Clunkers for Votes
on your dime

238 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:44:36am

re: #225 Gus 802

I also suspect that these lawyers are used to writing disclaimers for sites accessible to government employees and contractors who just wouldn't think twice about it.

239 HelloDare  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:44:41am

re: #126 Charles

Here's the agreement -- it's on the login page for DEALERS, and it's not even on the cars.gov site!

Beck didn't mention that little bit of information.

[Link: supplierpayments.esc.gov...]

I clicked on the link. Now my screensaver is a photo of Obama. /

240 coquimbojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:45:10am

re: #214 coquimbojoe

At my work our statement says: '"All your networks, computers, cat food and couches are belong to us". Not elegant but effective.


re: #226 JPL17

All your data are belong to us.

GMTA

241 mfarmer1  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:45:11am

re: #155 Throbert McGee

Sorry, but a warning that tells you that while you're logged into a government website essentially makes your computer property of the US government is creepy as is your example above.

I'm sure there is another legal gobbledygook meaning for the warning that doesn't mean that literally, but it would be enough to make me click away from there pronto. Like I said however, I wouldn't participate in this fiasco in the first place.

242 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:45:28am

re: #233 justdanny


I only wanted to point out that the US government doesnt see law as a barrier preventing them from doing what they want. I know its a very broad statement, but its no less true.


Nonsense.

243 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:45:34am

re: #30 DEZes

Ah crap, its Skynet.
Wheres Sarah Conner?

SkylarkNet.

244 avanti  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:45:43am

re: #239 HelloDare

I clicked on the link. Now my screensaver is a photo of Obama. /

re: #239 HelloDare

I clicked on the link. Now my screensaver is a photo of Obama. /

Mine always has been./

245 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:45:57am

re: #143 Truck Monkey

It seems, if the story is true, that she is moving to Montana to be closer to me.
//

Well, if you're ready to be a stepfather to--well, I guess three, the others are grown--ride right on over there with some flowers...

There may be a line, though.

//

246 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:45:59am

re: #227 NukeAtomrod

Absolutely true. However, if the government did decide to hack your computer after you agreed to this TOS, this would give them a legal defense for doing so. Still, it's a paranoid fantasy that the government planned it that way.

Nope -- this agreement is only for dealers, who are basically entering into a business partnership with the government. It's not for consumers and does not apply to consumers.

This is the DOT privacy policy for consumers:

[Link: www.dot.gov...]

247 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:47:23am

re: #241 mfarmer1

Sorry, but a warning that tells you that while you're logged into a government website essentially makes your computer property of the US government is creepy as is your example above.

I'm sure there is another legal gobbledygook meaning for the warning that doesn't mean that literally, but it would be enough to make me click away from there pronto. Like I said however, I wouldn't participate in this fiasco in the first place.

The agreement is for dealers only, not consumers.

248 justdanny  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:48:03am

re: #242 Killgore Trout
I appreciate and respect your view.

249 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:48:42am

re: #229 avanti

I'd sooner wait and see Human Rights Watch correct itself over its treatment of Israel than that. And I'm not holding my breath on any of it - Beck will simply move on to the next item. Hit and run - the way that all the nutters in the media on both sides operate with abandon.

250 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:49:07am

Hey, Ahtah Shrieks is all over it, that makes me discredit it almost immediately.

Has anybody here seen Leather Face
I heard she's back looking for a place to lay down
Must be getting on
Needs a man who's dumb to walk her around
Needs a man who's dumb to walk her around
Oh it must be hard for the likes of you to get by
In a world that you just can't see through
And it looks so cold
How does it feel to know you can't go home
How does it feel to know you can't go home

251 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:49:12am

re: #238 Killgore Trout

I also suspect that these lawyers are used to writing disclaimers for sites accessible to government employees and contractors who just wouldn't think twice about it.

Right. In this case it's done for the protection of the government, the dealers, and the consumers. This application could be used to hack banking information from consumers. The hackers could be either domestic or foreign. That's why they include foreign "law enforcement" in case any criminal activity occurs from overseas.

252 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:49:25am

re: #177 Walter L. Newton

What? What if he is abusing her, or something really wrong. You'd stay married to him? We don't know what the problem is, but your blanket statement does no service to women who need to get out of an abusive relationship.

Wait--we have no reason to think Mr. Palin is abusive. If so, obviously, his wife should leave, but I'd wait to get some evidence.

I think that was just an appreciative comment about Mr. Palin's physical attractiveness, which is undeniable, even to this lifelong Democrat, who gets slightly nauseated at the mention of anything Palin.

253 Truck Monkey  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:49:30am

re: #246 Charles

Nope -- this agreement is only for dealers, who are basically entering into a business partnership with the government. It's not for consumers and does not apply to consumers.

This is the DOT privacy policy for consumers:

[Link: www.dot.gov...]

Good point. And to think that a Jazz Musician (as Glenn Beck has derisively called you) could come up with that information all by himself after only an hour or so of research. I wonder if Glenn Beck will stand down and give you credit for fact checking his fat *ss...

254 NukeAtomrod  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:49:39am

re: #246 Charles

Please amend my statement to say "a dealer who agrees to this TOS" instead of the more generic "you".

255 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:49:55am

By the way, if the government is going to sneak into your computers and steal yer infos, they're not going to tell you about it in an agreement on a public website.

Just sayin'.

256 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:50:14am

re: #242 Killgore Trout

Nonsense.

correct...they simply pass into law the legislation they need to do what they want...hence a totally illegitimate program like one under discussion...

257 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:50:27am

re: #252 SanFranciscoZionist

And also, there are plenty of reasons to leave a marriage even without abuse. Even if married to a very attractive person. But still...

258 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:50:34am

re: #246 Charles

Nope -- this agreement is only for dealers, who are basically entering into a business partnership with the government. It's not for consumers and does not apply to consumers.

This is the DOT privacy policy for consumers:

[Link: www.dot.gov...]

Good point. Federal privacy laws are very stringent, and companies are required to share the policy in specific language that is written to be understandable. They abide by privacy laws as well. The Feds are not always the bad guys - far from it.

259 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:51:06am

re: #246 Charles

Nope -- this agreement is only for dealers, who are basically entering into a business partnership with the government. It's not for consumers and does not apply to consumers.

This is the DOT privacy policy for consumers:

[Link: www.dot.gov...]

Yes. Might need a bull horn for that to sink in with Glenn Beck.

In the end this protects the consumers involved in the transaction. If anything whatever fraud or crime might occur on this system would find the consumer as victim.

260 Irish Rose  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:51:23am

Right-wing fanatics like Glenn Beck are one of the main reasons that I've finally decided to jettison the Republican party after 25 years. I can't stomach the RNC's tack to the hard righ,t even one more day.

Which has of course, made me a target of the fine, upstanding Christians over at Deuce.

/crying in my soup

261 Annar  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:51:34am
Please note that it’s on the login page for dealers, not consumers —


As such the site should be inaccessible to the public. I'm sure that the Lizard Lounge is more secure than that site.

262 justdanny  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:52:05am

I visit government owned sites often and have accepted agreements much more imposing than this one. I never worry. I make my computer as transparent as possible so that if I do draw suspicion and someone wants to look at me they'll face hardly a barrier.

263 Truck Monkey  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:52:44am

re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist

And also, there are plenty of reasons to leave a marriage even without abuse. Even if married to a very attractive person. But still...

I would never leave a Sarah Palin type woman. She could do all sorts of horrible things to me and I would keep coming back for more. She is an e-ticket ride that I would never discard. Ever.
; )

264 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:52:49am

re: #251 Gus 802

Actually, when you write a disclaimer for a website such as this, the disclaimer is protecting only one group - the owner of the site. In that case, it's the government. You're accessing their site, so they're protecting themselves, and they're laying out what can happen if you violate their rules. A lawyer writing up this kind of disclaimer is working for one client - the government. Not the dealers or the consumers, so their rights are secondary.

It doesn't protect the dealers or the consumers.

265 HelloDare  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:53:01am

re: #255 Charles

By the way, if the government is going to sneak into your computers and steal yer infos, they're not going to tell you about it in an agreement on a public website.

Just sayin'.

Yeah, Charles doesn't post a warning when he ... oops, sorry Charles ...

266 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:53:09am

re: #242 Killgore Trout

Nonsense.

Then water boarding must be OK with you?

267 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:53:11am

re: #250 Thanos

Crazy Pam is really frothing over this one. I notice that Pamella and Beck both give repeated warnings that people should not visit the site because it's too dangerous.
Makes me wonder if there's some underlying fear that the program might actually be a success and they're trying to scare people away from it. I'm not sure if they're that smart.

268 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:53:16am

re: #215 Truck Monkey

But Edwards has a D after his name, so a story of philandering and an out of wedlock birth while your wife is dying of cancer deserves no mention at all. In fact, the story should be supressed. Sarah has an R after her name so a story of rumored affairs or an actress playing you seeing Alaska from your porch deserves front page above the fold coverage.

I seem to remember reading about Edwards someplace--must have been an underground website or something...

//

269 CynicalConservative  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:53:29am

re: #260 Irish Rose

Right-wing fanatics like Glenn Beck are one of the main reasons that I've finally decided to jettison the Republican party after 25 years. I can't stomach the RNC's tack to the hard righ,t even one more day.

Which has of course, made me a target of the fine, upstanding Christians over at Deuce.

/crying in my soup

Off their meds again, as usual.

270 justdanny  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:54:06am

re: #255 Charles

But as someone else said, it does give them a defense.

I want to make clear that I believe Beck is fear mongering here and I'm not agreeing with him or defending his stance.

271 shiplord kirel  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:54:17am

Beck is enriching himself by tapping into a market segment that has been largely ignored by the MSM until recently; the huge sub-culture of paranoid conspiracy believers.
This has been below the media radar screen for the same reason the results of yesterday's birther survey caught many LGFers by surprise: Literate and well-informed people tend to be isolated from this subculture by its very nature.
I know people who will not allow their teenage children to access the internet, for fear of either government spying or immoral influence of one kind or another. They would probably oppose literacy itself if the Bible was not in writing.

272 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:54:17am

re: #247 Charles

The agreement is for dealers only, not consumers.

True. I still think it would be kind of creepy if the government decided they could get access to all of the files on a dealer's computer. But I don't think that's even what the warning says. Beck and his crazies are misreading it.

This application provides access to the DoT CARS system. When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a Federal computer system and is the property of the United States Government. It is for authorized use only. Users (authorized or unauthorized) have no explicit or implicit expectation of privacy.

Any or all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to authorized CARS, DoT, and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign.

The "system" they're talking about is the CARS system, not the dealer's computer. I.e. all files in the CARS system can be monitored, recorded, etc., not all files on the dealer's computer.

It's true that the dealer's computer becomes "property of the Federal government" while logged in to CARS. But it ceases to be Federal property when the dealer logs out.

273 Render  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:54:25am

F-22 Raptors cost around $138 million each.

With this one program the government wasted a Billion dollars to do what junkyards already do, worse.

NOTHING
EXTRA,
R

274 alegrias  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:54:26am

Hugo Chavez' friends in the White House invited Mr. Zelaya the crooked ex-Pres. of Honduras to the White House this week. (Yes! It's true)

Oddly enough, Chavez is A-OK with taking over your company, your computer, your country. Ask anyone who invested in Venezuela what happened to their property.

Private property was and is being "nationalized" by "progressives" like the ones running our country into the ground.

This is happening in the South American Hemisphere.

Oh, and our progressives are cutting off aid of all kinds to the true democrat loving people of Honduras who followed their constitution to the letter.

Yeah, Glenn Beck is a crazy former rodeo clown all right.

275 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:54:41am

re: #267 Killgore Trout

Crazy Pam is really frothing over this one. I notice that Pamella and Beck both give repeated warnings that people should not visit the site because it's too dangerous.
Makes me wonder if there's some underlying fear that the program might actually be a success and they're trying to scare people away from it. I'm not sure if they're that smart.

We're the party that wants failure, KT.

276 Irish Rose  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:54:55am

re: #267 Killgore Trout

Crazy Pam is really frothing over this one.

When doesn't she froth?

277 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:55:59am

re: #262 justdanny

I visit government owned sites often and have accepted agreements much more imposing than this one. I never worry. I make my computer as transparent as possible so that if I do draw suspicion and someone wants to look at me they'll face hardly a barrier.

I wear extreme prophylactics when visiting non public gov't sites, almost as many as I wear when I hit the jihadi and paleo sites. I do it not out of distrust of the gov't but rather out of distrust of some people in gov't. We've seen there are bureaucrats who do abuse their power. Usually they get caught, but all the same I'd rather not take the chance of running across one of the few bad eggs. There have to be some, even though the majority of public servants are well intentioned and abide by the law.

278 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:56:36am

re: #264 lawhawk

Actually, when you write a disclaimer for a website such as this, the disclaimer is protecting only one group - the owner of the site. In that case, it's the government. You're accessing their site, so they're protecting themselves, and they're laying out what can happen if you violate their rules. A lawyer writing up this kind of disclaimer is working for one client - the government. Not the dealers or the consumers, so their rights are secondary.

It doesn't protect the dealers or the consumers.

Right, I suppose so. I was just thinking that if one were to abuse that system the motivation could be to access personal account information. I'm sure there could be other reasons.

In any event, the best defense here is encryption and a good firewall. Or whatever other security feature they might use.

279 alegrias  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:57:01am

re: #260 Irish Rose

Right-wing fanatics like Glenn Beck are one of the main reasons that I've finally decided to jettison the Republican party after 25 years. I can't stomach the RNC's tack to the hard righ,t even one more day.

Which has of course, made me a target of the fine, upstanding Christians over at Deuce.

/crying in my soup

* * * *
Buh bye.

280 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:57:16am

re: #267 Killgore Trout

Crazy Pam is really frothing over this one. I notice that Pamella and Beck both give repeated warnings that people should not visit the site because it's too dangerous.
Makes me wonder if there's some underlying fear that the program might actually be a success and they're trying to scare people away from it. I'm not sure if they're that smart.

I'm sure it's the foreign word.

281 rightymouse  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:57:22am

re: #256 albusteve

correct...they simply pass into law the legislation they need to do what they want...hence a totally illegitimate program like one under discussion...


Or break contracts without passing any laws.

282 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:57:29am

re: #277 Thanos

I wear extreme prophylactics when visiting non public gov't sites, almost as many as I wear when I hit the jihadi and paleo sites. I do it not out of distrust of the gov't but rather out of distrust of some people in gov't. We've seen there are bureaucrats who do abuse their power. Usually they get caught, but all the same I'd rather not take the chance of running across one of the few bad eggs. There have to be some, even though the majority of public servants are well intentioned and abide by the law.

No one in the government, especially loan wolf players, would ever do something like try to hack your computer :)

Yes right Walter.

283 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:57:49am

re: #275 Sharmuta

It's becoming a very sad theme and a very noticeable trend.

284 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:58:02am

Glenn Beck is an idiot.

Having stated the obvious, Charles, I would like to object (again) to the use of the word "clunkers" in this program.

The whole thing is a not-even-thinly-veiled giveaway to consumers (any consumers, without means testing - you can be a car collector and get a deal this way as long as the absurd criteria are met) for the benefit of the auto industry (the whole auto industry - not just those who are struggling, but any dealer with cars that have an ever-so-slightly higher mileage rating than the ones to be junked) and the glory of the government. With an environmental fig-leaf thrown in.

My under-50k, mechanically perfect Lincoln qualifies, because it gets a city-highway average mpg that is politically incorrect. The jump in efficiency required to join the program is so small, it would take a couple of decades of constant driving for me to realize a net environmental benefit after accounting for the cost of junking a perfectly good vehicle, the cost of the giveaway, and the eco-cost of building the new car. I'm planning to keep my Connie (and park it in "hybrids only" spaces at Whole Foods just for fun) as long as it runs, just to cheese off the carbon-Nazis.

Anyone who thinks this "clunker junker" program has anything whatsoever to do with environmental concerns is deluded.

It's stimulus, pure and simple, and I'm certainly not against that, especially when it seems to work better than just about any other stimulus so far. Just spare me the morally puffed-up crap that accompanies it.

285 Truck Monkey  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:58:10am

re: #271 shiplord kirel

Beck is enriching himself by tapping into a market segment that has been largely ignored by the MSM until recently; the huge sub-culture of paranoid conspiracy believers.
This has been below the media radar screen for the same reason the results of yesterday's birther survey caught many LGFers by surprise: Literate and well-informed people tend to be isolated from this subculture by its very nature.
I know people who will not allow their teenage children to access the internet, for fear of either government spying or immoral influence of one kind or another. They would probably oppose literacy itself if the Bible was not in writing.


I have forbidden my children from taking black helicopter rides.
//

286 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:58:22am

re: #111 Desert Dog

He is worse in other ways...they are both gigantic assh*les. Both pandering to the LCD and base emotions of their respective target audiences.

Olberman is worse. Now we have to put up with Franken in the Senate.

287 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:58:29am

re: #267 Killgore Trout

Crazy Pam is really frothing over this one. I notice that Pamella and Beck both give repeated warnings that people should not visit the site because it's too dangerous.
Makes me wonder if there's some underlying fear that the program might actually be a success and they're trying to scare people away from it. I'm not sure if they're that smart.

I'm against gov't programs like this, however in this instance I support it. The Euros and other countries have been subsidizing their car industries through programs like this and draconian regs to meet carbon mandates. It started out being "for the environment" but effectively it's become a trade war we can't lose.

288 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:59:33am

re: #283 Killgore Trout

It's becoming a very sad theme and a very noticeable trend.

the clunker program is a sad theme

289 wahabicorridor  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:59:40am

Hola alegrais!

My experience with this type of thing tells me that even if the gov't wanted to do something this stupid they'd fuck it up.

That database they've got to check if employers are hiring illegals? We got a letter from them last year. Apparently the self-employed contracter who works with us is 'illegal'. Her father is Canadian, mother American, parents lived in Canada and she was born here in the U.S. while her mother was visitng family.

Sometimes these people are just too stupid to breathe.

290 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:59:40am

/pimf "afford to lose" - of course we can lose and end up with only foreign cars to buy.

291 alegrias  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 10:59:59am

re: #260 Irish Rose

Right-wing fanatics like Glenn Beck are one of the main reasons that I've finally decided to jettison the Republican party after 25 years. I can't stomach the RNC's tack to the hard righ,t even one more day.

Which has of course, made me a target of the fine, upstanding Christians over at Deuce.

/crying in my soup

* * * *
Do you know for a fact whether Glenn Beck is a card carrying member of the Republican Party?

Beck seems to disdain both & all party apparatchiks who pig out at the public trough and cheat the US taxpayer.

292 caligal  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:00:41am

thanks for the clarification.

293 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:01:20am

re: #14 lawhawk

I'll tell you one group that didn't visit the cars.gov site - the IT people who put it together to check to see whether it could handle the volume of rebates being processed. Even though Congress is rushing another $2 billion to support the program, no one knows exactly how much was processed or what was left of the original $1 billion.

That's our government in action - not the nonsense that Beck is spewing.

Are you ever right on target.
If conservatives in leadership positions and in the media keep focusing on stupid shit instead of the real issues, we are doomed doomed doomed.

294 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:01:36am

Hey Charles, ever since I clicked your link to the cars.gov site, I keep hearing these voices in my head, telling me to eat arugula and buy carbon credits. Also, I'm pretty sure that all of the items in my refrigerator have suddenly rearranged themselves so as to send a secret message telling me to send money to Nancy Pelosi.

Is there anything I can do to fix this? Some sort of spyware removal software or something?

/

295 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:01:40am

re: #291 alegrias

* * * *
Do you know for a fact whether Glenn Beck is a card carrying member of the Republican Party?

Beck seems to disdain both & all party apparatchiks who pig out at the public trough and cheat the US taxpayer.


No, Beck is an Indy.

296 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:02:10am

re: #247 Charles

The agreement is for dealers only, not consumers.

Charles, I work for the government, and even I don't get that sort of disturbing disclaimer when I login to various services required to administer some of my info.
This is pure laziness, expressed as an arrogation of privilege that nobody is entitled to.

297 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:03:39am

No cash for clunkers in Calcutta. Commercial vehicles over 15 years old means an outright ban:

Calcutta imposes old vehicle ban

A ban on commercial vehicles more than 15 years old has come into force in the Indian city of Calcutta, as part of efforts to reduce pollution levels.

The restriction affects thousands of buses, taxis and rickshaws. Transport operators have criticised the decision and threatened to go on strike.

...

Transport unions, representing private bus, mini bus and taxi operators, on Friday called off a strike against the ban. But they are now threatening another one.

The operators say they are keen to switch to green fuels, or to buy new vehicles, but would need loans and easy repayment terms to help them make the move.

298 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:03:41am

re: #293 reine.de.tout

Are you ever right on target.
If conservatives in leadership positions and in the media keep focusing on stupid shit instead of the real issues, we are doomed doomed doomed.

Shiny Clunkers make me sad

299 alegrias  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:04:03am

re: #286 BlueRoses

Olberman is worse. Now we have to put up with Franken in the Senate.

* * * *
Did you see where Al Franken attacked Swift Boat Veterans for Truth funder T. Boone Pickens at some luncheon in the Capitol this week?

Pickens was trying to push his new alternative energy schemes at taxpayer expense, but Franken attacked him for undermining John Kerry's campaign in 2004.

Class act, that Franken, standing up for Kerry's 2004 candidacy for President. Looking Forward! Progress! Change ! NOT.

300 Chekote  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:04:07am

I watched Beck when he first moved to Fox. I even attended his Meetup We Surround Them. Most people who showed up were regular Americans concerned about the direction of the country. However, there was also a strong loony element. I started turning sour on Beck when during his "The Reveal" show he kept breaking into tears. He reminded of a TV evangelist. So I dropped the group and stop watching him. He is catering to people's worst fears and I wish Fox would rein him in.

301 SixDegrees  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:04:25am

re: #5 Charles

Beck's whole raving paranoid fantasy is based on the terms of service for the cars.gov site. He actually seems to think the government can take over your computer just by visiting that site.

"Do not visit this site!"

Moron.

It's already having the desired effect; there were several posts here at LGF yesterday saying exactly the same thing, warning that if you logged onto the site (the consumer site doesn't require any sort of login, but never mind) the government would take control of your computer and everything on it. No amount of reasoning would sway these posters, and no number of requests to produce a link to the statement of seizure ever produced a URL.

I suspected that this was an idea being actively flogged elsewhere. That the source if Beck comes as no surprise at all.

302 SixDegrees  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:05:47am

re: #291 alegrias

* * * *
Do you know for a fact whether Glenn Beck is a card carrying member of the Republican Party?

Beck seems to disdain both & all party apparatchiks who pig out at the public trough and cheat the US taxpayer.

I'm fairly certain Beck is getting kickbacks from one of Soros' many front organizations.

303 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:05:47am

re: #284 Cato the Elder

Here are some sample headlines from today...
Most East Bay auto dealers happy with 'clunkers' plan

AutoNation CEO: Clunkers money helped us

"Clunkers" buyers seek fuel economy: Ford analyst

It's entirely possible that the program might be a good thing. We'll have to wait and see.

304 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:06:30am

re: #301 SixDegrees

It's already having the desired effect; there were several posts here at LGF yesterday saying exactly the same thing, warning that if you logged onto the site (the consumer site doesn't require any sort of login, but never mind) the government would take control of your computer and everything on it. No amount of reasoning would sway these posters, and no number of requests to produce a link to the statement of seizure ever produced a URL.

I suspected that this was an idea being actively flogged elsewhere. That the source if Beck comes as no surprise at all.

Smart money says Infowars and Alex

305 alegrias  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:06:40am

re: #289 wahabicorridor

Hola alegrais!

My experience with this type of thing tells me that even if the gov't wanted to do something this stupid they'd fuck it up.

That database they've got to check if employers are hiring illegals? We got a letter from them last year. Apparently the self-employed contracter who works with us is 'illegal'. Her father is Canadian, mother American, parents lived in Canada and she was born here in the U.S. while her mother was visitng family.

Sometimes these people are just too stupid to breathe.

* * * *
Howdy, W. Corridor! Sorry the Feds E-Verify program doesn't work as advertised!

Suprise, surprise. No wonder Pres. Reagan just granted amnesty to everyone in 1986 and kicked the can down the road...

306 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:07:14am

BTW: no wedding band

307 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:07:18am

re: #298 albusteve

Shiny Clunkers make me sad

Well, and me too. Aside from the cost of it, what a waste it is! From the party that's supposed to be "green"?

Some of the charity organizations here have programs where you can donate a used car that they will make available to people who need a car to get to work, for instance. Public transportation where I live is basically non-existent. A few city bus routes, that's it.

These cars could be put to good use; but they'll be scrapped instead. So those people who need a car but can't afford new or used car lot prices, won't have one.

308 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:07:40am

re: #303 Killgore Trout

Here are some sample headlines from today...
Most East Bay auto dealers happy with 'clunkers' plan

AutoNation CEO: Clunkers money helped us

"Clunkers" buyers seek fuel economy: Ford analyst

It's entirely possible that the program might be a good thing. We'll have to wait and see.

I am most emphatically not against the program per se, and as a stimulus plan it sure seems to be working. I merely call bullshit on the enviro aspect. And I suspect Penn & Teller would back me up...

309 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:08:04am

re: #306 Sharmuta

BTW: no wedding band

Whoa. What's that about?

Maybe it was just at the shop being cleaned?

310 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:08:06am

re: #272 Last Mohican

The "system" they're talking about is the CARS system, not the dealer's computer. I.e. all files in the CARS system can be monitored, recorded, etc., not all files on the dealer's computer.

It's true that the dealer's computer becomes "property of the Federal government" while logged in to CARS. But it ceases to be Federal property when the dealer logs out.

Yes, that's exactly right. This issue is even less than it appears.

It only applies to dealers, and it only applies to files that are part of the business transactions between dealers and the CARS program. Not everything on the dealer's computer -- or as Kimberley Guilfoyle says, "everything in your house."

311 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:08:13am

re: #304 Thanos

Smart money says Infowars and Alex

Cash for clunkers is just another way the Trilateral Commission will control our lives!

//

312 justdanny  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:08:18am

re: #277 Thanos

...even though the majority of public servants are well intentioned and abide by the law.

You have a lot more faith in humanity than I do.

313 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:08:25am

re: #308 Cato the Elder

I am most emphatically not against the program per se, and as a stimulus plan it sure seems to be working. I merely call bullshit on the enviro aspect. And I suspect Penn & Teller would back me up...

You know Penn and Teller?

314 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:08:34am

re: #284 Cato the Elder

Wish I had a gazillion updings for that.

315 coquimbojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:08:52am

re: #269 CynicalConservative

Off their meds again, as usual.

Beck is NOT a republican. He goes after them too. He fancies himself strictly a conservative - with libertarian leanings.

316 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:09:07am

the UAU drove the quality down and the price up on new cars...they are in the donks pocket...ridiculous CAFE standards imposed via the EPA gave us gas guzzling SUVs...the EPA is in the donks pocket...Now Chrysler and GM and their associated dealers are in the donks pocket...what good can come from any of this Clunker Scandle?...so they sell a few more cars at 3b of taxpayers money...saddening eh?

317 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:09:29am

re: #313 Walter L. Newton

You know Penn and Teller?

Actually just Penn. We went to college together. And Teller, for some reason, is hard to get to know. It may be the not-talking thing...

318 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:09:45am

re: #309 Last Mohican

Whoa. What's that about?

Maybe it was just at the shop being cleaned?

Maybe.
I don't wear my rings all the time. In fact, I rarely do; and hubby doesn't even have one.

319 Truck Monkey  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:10:32am

re: #306 Sharmuta

BTW: no wedding band


Good catch. Isn't it a faux pax not to wear a wedding band when you are married? I have had mine on so long that I can no longer take it off.

320 alegrias  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:11:38am

re: #315 coquimbojoe

Beck is NOT a republican. He goes after them too. He fancies himself strictly a conservative - with libertarian leanings.

* * * *
Yes, which is why it's silly to use Beck as an excuse to bash him as representative of "right wing fanatics" belonging to the GOP since Beck is his own genre of former rodeo clown/entertainer with First Amendment rights.

321 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:11:50am

Lots of people who never post comments are showing up to down-ding my Anthony Watts post.

Must be a link somewhere. Reminds me of creationist behavior.

322 jaunte  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:12:13am

Now the government is going to find out I never buy the undercoating.

323 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:12:17am

I know I said I wouldn't speculate anymore, but I wanted to see if what the source said was true about Sarah not wearing her ring. Could be other explanations, so I will wait for Sarah to speak.

324 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:12:22am

re: #173 albusteve

maybe he beats her...they do that on TV soap operas

Nah she'd deck him ! LOL

325 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:12:30am

re: #316 albusteve

the UAU drove the quality down and the price up on new cars...they are in the donks pocket...ridiculous CAFE standards imposed via the EPA gave us gas guzzling SUVs...the EPA is in the donks pocket...Now Chrysler and GM and their associated dealers are in the donks pocket...what good can come from any of this Clunker Scandle?...so they sell a few more cars at 3b of taxpayers money...saddening eh?

This is 100 percent a payout to the car manufacturers. And guess what, the bottom line is it doesn't benefit American car companies that much. Chrysler only has 3 cars they sell that would fall under this program, Toyota has 80 percent of their cars that qualify.

It's going to benefit the foreign companies, not ours.

326 rob.schmitt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:12:47am

Charles,
You have an extremely short attention span.
I realized that since Beck believes in Cod, you feel that you must destroy him. But, given that he does four (4) HOURS of broadcast per day, not all of his topics and guests are fully 'vetted.' That being said, sometimes when he "smells a rat", he may inflate the potential to the scale of a bubonic plague, but there usually IS a rat.
And, Charles, the 'fact' that this EULA is similar to others in private commerce actually begs the question.
I have not read the EULA in question, but I think that a good analogy would be to an apartment lease which always contains a clause granting the land-lord the right of 'entry and inspection.' By your reasoning, there would be no cause for alarm if the clause also included the right of the Police to enter at any time, without a warrant. If Glenn Beck were to get upset about such a lease, would you be so sanguine about his being "a raving freakazoid nut sandwich ?"

327 Mad Al-Jaffee  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:13:41am

Afternoon everyone. Good one in The Onion today:

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

328 Ojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:13:44am

Let's see all the congressmen and senators drive in a massive destruction derby.

329 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:13:48am

re: #326 rob.schmitt

Charles,
You have an extremely short attention span.
I realized that since Beck believes in Cod, you feel that you must destroy him. But, given that he does four (4) HOURS of broadcast per day, not all of his topics and guests are fully 'vetted.' That being said, sometimes when he "smells a rat", he may inflate the potential to the scale of a bubonic plague, but there usually IS a rat.
And, Charles, the 'fact' that this EULA is similar to others in private commerce actually begs the question.
I have not read the EULA in question, but I think that a good analogy would be to an apartment lease which always contains a clause granting the land-lord the right of 'entry and inspection.' By your reasoning, there would be no cause for alarm if the clause also included the right of the Police to enter at any time, without a warrant. If Glenn Beck were to get upset about such a lease, would you be so sanguine about his being "a raving freakazoid nut sandwich ?"

I believe in Cod too. It is especially good in fish chowder.

330 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:13:52am

re: #326 rob.schmitt

Charles,
You have an extremely short attention span.
I realized that since Beck believes in Cod, you feel that you must destroy him.

What a stupid comment.

331 jaunte  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:13:55am

Cod is currently at risk from overfishing, if you know what I mean.

332 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:14:18am

re: #326 rob.schmitt

Could you be more insulting?

333 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:14:19am

God. I hope Mr. Palin didn't have an affair with Greta. I could not handle that.

334 alegrias  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:14:27am

re: #325 Walter L. Newton

This is 100 percent a payout to the car manufacturers. And guess what, the bottom line is it doesn't benefit American car companies that much. Chrysler only has 3 cars they sell that would fall under this program, Toyota has 80 percent of their cars that qualify.

It's going to benefit the foreign companies, not ours.

* * * *
Remember many Toyotas are made in the USA by hardworking American workers who aren't union people sitting around taking tax dollars to sit around.

335 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:14:44am

re: #326 rob.schmitt

Hi rob.schmitt!

I have not read the EULA in question

Why does that not surprise me?

336 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:14:46am

re: #326 rob.schmitt

Bye bye, now.

337 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:15:07am

For a good laugh read some of the Twitter comments regarding this topic:

[Link: twitter.com...]

Some samples:

Get the word out!!! RT Cash For Clunkers is a government scam to gain access to your computer

This is so very scary RT: Cash For Clunkers is a government scam to gain access to your computer

Fed Gov't thinks THEY OWN your computer if you visit the "Cash for Clunkers" website. Freakin' scary!

338 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:15:25am

re: #321 Charles

Lots of people who never post comments are showing up to down-ding my Anthony Watts post.

Must be a link somewhere. Reminds me of creationist behavior.

There are also "ding brigades" here who auto ding up warming denial posts, you don't seem them dinging up or down much else.

339 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:15:39am

re: #326 rob.schmitt

Cod?

340 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:15:42am

re: #335 wrenchwench

Hi rob.schmitt!

Why does that not surprise me?

He doesn't know the facts of the case, but feels that Charles acted stupidly.

341 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:15:48am

re: #326 rob.schmitt

Charles,
You have an extremely short attention span.
I realized that since Beck believes in Cod, you feel that you must destroy him. But, given that he does four (4) HOURS of broadcast per day, not all of his topics and guests are fully 'vetted.' That being said, sometimes when he "smells a rat", he may inflate the potential to the scale of a bubonic plague, but there usually IS a rat.
And, Charles, the 'fact' that this EULA is similar to others in private commerce actually begs the question.
I have not read the EULA in question, but I think that a good analogy would be to an apartment lease which always contains a clause granting the land-lord the right of 'entry and inspection.' By your reasoning, there would be no cause for alarm if the clause also included the right of the Police to enter at any time, without a warrant. If Glenn Beck were to get upset about such a lease, would you be so sanguine about his being "a raving freakazoid nut sandwich ?"

What the hell does Becks belief in god have to do with this conversation. Do you believe in god? Do you believe in the same god as Beck? Beck is a Mormon. His god is no where near the god of the Christian testament. So, do you agree with Beck because you believe in his god?

See, I can make stupid arguments too!

342 Ojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:16:16am

re: #326 rob.schmitt

"C" and "G" are not even next to each other on they keyboard.

343 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:16:31am

re: #331 jaunte

Cod is currently at risk from overfishing, if you know what I mean.

In his (rob) case he probably believes in Red Herrings.

//

344 HelloDare  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:16:56am

re: #326 rob.schmitt

Good Cod, what are you talking about?

345 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:17:18am

re: #334 alegrias

Certain manufacturers are in a better position to benefit from this program than others.

Chrysler isn't.

Ford and GM are. So are Mini Cooper (BMW). Toyota and Honda both are. Many of those foreign brands are made here in the US. Some of the domestic brands are made outside the US.

The car dealers who profit from sales are all located here. They'll benefit (if they ever get reimbursed from the feds).

346 JHW  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:17:27am

Where's buzz, he could have some fun with the "Cod" piece.

347 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:17:27am

re: #334 alegrias

* * * *
Remember many Toyotas are made in the USA by hardworking American workers who aren't union people sitting around taking tax dollars to sit around.

So, the profits go back to Japan. And did you read my post, I said Chrysler only has 3 cars that qualify. This is similar to the other American car companies. So, in the long run, who does this benefit.

More of our money going overseas.

Yep.

348 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:17:41am

re: #325 Walter L. Newton

This is 100 percent a payout to the car manufacturers. And guess what, the bottom line is it doesn't benefit American car companies that much. Chrysler only has 3 cars they sell that would fall under this program, Toyota has 80 percent of their cars that qualify.

It's going to benefit the foreign companies, not ours.

if I got my pockets stuffed with 4500 bucks by the donks I might consider voting for them...this is no more than buying votes with public money, again...liberalism...allowing taxpayers to keep more of what they earn so they can buy a new car is repugnant to them...pretty simple

349 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:17:51am

re: #308 Cato the Elder

Agreed. It will have no environmental impact at all. In fact, the plan to destroy all the cars people traded in is so stupid I didn't believe it. I thought it was a myth that people made up to make the program look stupid.

350 [deleted]  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:17:51am
351 Truck Monkey  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:17:56am

re: #331 jaunte

Cod is currently at risk from overfishing, if you know what I mean.

If Cod were made into Lutefisk more, their stocks would rebound. Lutefisk is horrible. I believe in Cod too BTW.

352 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:17:56am

In late, to the video and here:

Beck and that dumb-shit girl are idiots!
Worst of all, they obviously LOVE being that way.
That's the fundamental problem -- Beck LOVES it.
He isn't about to change because this crap is how he gets his kicks.

353 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:17:57am

re: #333 Cattt

God. I hope Mr. Palin didn't have an affair with Greta. I could not handle that.

Wha? Is there a rumor out there?

354 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:18:07am

re: #342 Ojoe

"C" and "G" are not even next to each other on they keyboard.

And they aren't even on the same row of keys, and "G" is typed with the left forefinger, while "C" is typed with the left middle finger.

355 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:18:44am

re: #329 Cato the Elder

Fried with chips and vinegar!

356 mrmarble  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:19:08am

I used to listen to Beck about 7 years ago when he was in Florida, before he went with Premier (? - I think that is who hired him on radio). Before "moving up" in the radio world that man was ONE of the funniest people on I would not miss a day listening to him, than when he "moved up" he changed overnight. He would yell at his old loyal listeners because they said that he was changing. I cannot listen or even watch him now too preachy, too O'Reily like (hate him), he sucks period.

357 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:19:12am

re: #339 Cattt

Cod?

talk about having roe on your face

358 HelloDare  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:19:13am

[Link: www.zazzle.com...]

359 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:19:23am

re: #350 weblurker

Bye now! Sorry, you don't get to leave your dramatic flounce-off comment.

360 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:19:26am

re: #339 Cattt

Cod?

Well, You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey's uh, cod-kabobs, codcreole, codgumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple cod, lemon cod, coconut cod, pepper cod, cod soup, codstew, codsalad, codand potatoes, cod burger, cod sandwich. That- that's about it.

361 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:19:31am

re: #350 weblurker

We will miss all of your wonderful input and interesting dialog and insight.

362 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:19:38am

re: #347 Walter L. Newton

So, the profits go back to Japan. And did you read my post, I said Chrysler only has 3 cars that qualify. This is similar to the other American car companies. So, in the long run, who does this benefit.

More of our money going overseas.

Yep.

This benefits the hippies who think that V-8 driven American STEEL is a threat to their three-cylinder cardboard hunchbacks.

They are right. I'll walk away from it.

363 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:19:39am

Please. Not another Cod piece.

364 jaunte  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:19:45am

1 comment, 1 flounce, not much meat.

365 Render  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:19:51am

One whole stinkin comment?

POAD,
R

366 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:19:58am

re: #350 weblurker

One comment.

367 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:20:03am

Cod damned lippy sunsabitch. Or is that Cod lipped Damned sunsabitch?re: #350 weblurker

Don't snag your tutu on the doorhandle as you flounce out.

368 Ojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:20:12am

re: #354 reine.de.tout

Well I type with random fingering, but still.

369 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:20:14am

re: #319 Truck Monkey

Good catch. Isn't it a faux pax not to wear a wedding band when you are married? I have had mine on so long that I can no longer take it off.

Depends. My parents never wore theirs. My husband never had one--he hates jewelry, and a single-ring ceremony is tradition on my side, so we went with that.

370 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:20:20am

re: #364 jaunte

1 comment, 1 flounce, not much meat.

I hate it when those comments get deleted before I can see them.

371 Mad Al-Jaffee  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:20:26am

re: #351 Truck Monkey

Two prawns are best friend and swimming around in the sea.
One is called Justin, the other Christian.

It's pretty boring being a prawn, so they were swimming around, discussing what it would be like to be a shark.
"I'd love to be a shark." said Christian.
"Yeah, me to." said Justin. "It'd be a lot of fun."
"Anyway, I've got to go " said Christian. "See you".

So Justin is swimming home, still wondering what it would be like to be a shark, when he comes across a cod.
"So you want to be a shark?" Said the cod.
"Yeah" said Justin "How'd you know that?"
"I am a magic cod and if you wish it, I can make you a shark."
Justin though about it, and decided to go ahead with it.

The next day Justin wakes up and discovers he is a shark.
He decides to go tell all of his friends but when he gets to all of them, they run away. "No No!! Go away!!!" The they all said, even Christian.

So Justin is now swimming around, depressed that he hasn't got any friends when he comes across cod again. "Change me back" he said in desperation. "Alright" says the cod.

So the next day Justin wakes up and finds he is a prawn again.
He is so exited he goes to tell his friends.

"No! Go away Justin, you'll eat me!" says Christian

"No, you don't understand!" says Justin

"I've changed, I found cod, I'm a prawn again Christian!"

372 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:20:37am

Charles, you are uncodly.

373 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:20:49am

re: #366 Sharmuta

One Zero comments.

Pathetic. Over beck...

374 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:21:00am

Karma: -8
Registered since: Oct 18, 2007 at 6:46 pm


No. of comments posted: 1
No. of links posted: 0
Recent comments

#350

375 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:21:17am

re: #368 Ojoe

Well I type with random fingering, but still.

You didn't take typing in high-school?
As a back-up?
You know, just in case the marriage didn't work out and you needed a "career"?

376 rightymouse  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:21:24am

re: #306 Sharmuta

BTW: no wedding band


Same day with Todd.

She was also going to be serving food that day.

377 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:21:25am

re: #372 Cato the Elder

Charles, you are uncodly.

Some people say I am a cod among men.

378 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:22:11am

re: #377 Charles

Some people say I am a cod among men.

Skip and Jack?

379 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:22:19am

re: #362 haakondahl

This benefits the hippies who think that V-8 driven American STEEL is a threat to their three-cylinder cardboard hunchbacks.

They are right. I'll walk away from it.

And you are right. John Caldera of the Independence Institute (in Golden, Co.) had an interesting take on this. The majority of American cars do not qualify for this money. But most of the cars built by foreign companies do qualify.

So, in the long run, it is our tax payers money that will generate the profits that won't even stay in this country.

This is something that not many people are aware of.

380 CynicalConservative  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:22:48am

re: #315 coquimbojoe

Beck is NOT a republican. He goes after them too. He fancies himself strictly a conservative - with libertarian leanings.

No sweat, was referring to the monkeys at the deuce.

381 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:22:57am

re: #377 Charles

Some people say I am a cod among men.

Fishy... Were they a grouper?

382 jaunte  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:22:59am

re: #370 reine.de.tout

He was making the minor point that the EULA agreement was overbroad. That wasn't the way Beck reported the story, and the recently departed seemed upset with Charles for pointing out the way Beck did report the story.

383 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:23:00am

re: #377 Charles

Some people say I am a cod among men.

I don't believe in cod.

384 Ojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:23:11am

re: #375 reine.de.tout

I did take typing in high school. but I never use my little fingers, and I look at the keyboard when I type.

I am so unredeemed.

385 SixDegrees  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:23:11am

re: #304 Thanos

Smart money says Infowars and Alex

Could be the origin. Beck certainly is giving it wider distribution.

386 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:23:17am

BBIAB

387 rightymouse  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:23:33am

re: #319 Truck Monkey

Good catch. Isn't it a faux pax not to wear a wedding band when you are married? I have had mine on so long that I can no longer take it off.

No, it's not a faux pas. Married people don't always wear their rings. I don't when I'm showering, swimming (or at the beach in general), cooking or cleaning, for instance.

388 SixDegrees  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:23:49am

re: #377 Charles

Some people say I am a cod among men.

Will we be bringing back the codpiece as a men's fashion statement, then?

389 Ojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:23:57am

re: #375 reine.de.tout

I'm a guy! LOL!

390 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:24:17am

re: #388 SixDegrees

Will we be bringing back the codpiece as a men's fashion statement, then?

Cod, I hope not.

391 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:24:19am

re: #300 Chekote

I watched Beck when he first moved to Fox. I even attended his Meetup We Surround Them. Most people who showed up were regular Americans concerned about the direction of the country. However, there was also a strong loony element. I started turning sour on Beck when during his "The Reveal" show he kept breaking into tears. He reminded of a TV evangelist. So I dropped the group and stop watching him. He is catering to people's worst fears and I wish Fox would rein him in.

I stopped watching Beck a year or more ago when he kept harping on the upcoming depression. This was before the housing crash.
He isn't always wrong folks so I have gone back to watching him. If I discover more chaff than wheat then I will again turn the set off again.
You also have to admit there is a car crash aura about him. I keep waiting for him to totally melt down.

392 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:25:02am

#350 was taking over our 'puters. He's from da gubment.

393 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:25:13am

re: #385 SixDegrees

Could be the origin. Beck certainly is giving it wider distribution.

Out of curiosity I did a quick skim, he's not running with it yet that I could see but I bet he does. So probably not source, that makes World Nut Drooly the likely candidate, or it could have started in comments here from that user who posted about it come to think on it.

394 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:25:59am

re: #392 Cannadian Club Akbar

#350 was taking over our 'puters. He's from da gubment.

All your 'puters belong to us! /

395 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:26:04am

re: #389 Ojoe

I'm a guy! LOL!

heh-heh.

It's amazing to me that a course all girls took back in the stone age when I was in High School, as a "skill" they might need at some point, is now something everybody really needs to know how to do. And pure secretarial jobs are now virtually non-existent.

396 Truck Monkey  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:26:37am

re: #371 Mad Al-Jaffee

That is HILARIOUS! You had a Cod joke at the ready just for this occasion? 1000 updings.

397 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:26:50am

re: #377 Charles

Some people say I am a cod among men.

Well, some people call me Maurice. So there!

398 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:27:32am

re: #319 Truck Monkey

Good catch. Isn't it a faux pax not to wear a wedding band when you are married? I have had mine on so long that I can no longer take it off.

My husband refuses to wear his. He's 'allergic'. You could always try that.

399 Truck Monkey  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:28:26am

re: #383 Walter L. Newton

I don't believe in cod.

Even when you can see one with your own eyes?

400 shiplord kirel  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:28:45am

There's an upside to this tin-foilery: I know people who won't buy ammunition online or use e-mail for fear the ATF is tracking their every move.
This makes it harder for them to prepare and coordinate any uprisings they might be incited by the likes of Beck to start planning.

401 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:29:01am

Did this by chance come up on Rush Limbaugh Friday? Did anyone listen? (I only heard part, so don't know)

402 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:29:52am

re: #346 JHW

Where's buzz, he could have some fun with the "Cod" piece.

Typical inflation for propaganda purposes.

/merely trying to humbly fill in while The Master is away

403 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:29:56am

re: #353 Cato the Elder

Wha? Is there a rumor out there?

NOOO - don't let me start one - heavens. It's just that when she interviewed him up in Alaska you could cut the sexual tension with a knife. I know I'm not the only woman that noticed. That doesn't mean Greta would EVER do that. She is imho a very smart and nice person.

FORGET I posted that. Whew.

404 American Sabra  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:30:58am

re: #230 coquimbojoe

I see him exactly opposite as you do. He is for freedom in my book. Crazy, crazy freedom.

Sorry I had to take care of a dog v. cat crisis...

Let me put it this way. If Beck is the Olbermann of the Right, then wouldn't you agree with Olbermann once in awhile? Someone said up thread that a broken clock is right twice a day after all.

I'm not saying that either of these men don't make valid points now and then. Maybe they do. I don't pay attention long enough to find out. But you wouldn't carry around a broken clock with you and rely on it to tell time. That would be silly and useless. And that's what I think of both of them, even if I might agree with something they say. Silly and useless and not to be relied on to make a point that I agree with.

405 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:31:22am

Aardvark born in zoo (video)

Cute video. I wish CNN would shorten the stupid commercial they make you watch first. Hulu has a great format of 10-15 second commercials that aren't annoying at all.

406 Truck Monkey  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:31:26am

re: #395 reine.de.tout

heh-heh.

It's amazing to me that a course all girls took back in the stone age when I was in High School, as a "skill" they might need at some point, is now something everybody really needs to know how to do. And pure secretarial jobs are now virtually non-existent.

I took typing in Junior High for much the same reason I took Home Economics in High School. The girls were there! ; )

407 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:32:06am

re: #404 American Sabra

Sorry I had to take care of a dog v. cat crisis...

Let me put it this way. If Beck is the Olbermann of the Right, then wouldn't you agree with Olbermann once in awhile? Someone said up thread that a broken clock is right twice a day after all.

I'm not saying that either of these men don't make valid points now and then. Maybe they do. I don't pay attention long enough to find out. But you wouldn't carry around a broken clock with you and rely on it to tell time. That would be silly and useless. And that's what I think of both of them, even if I might agree with something they say. Silly and useless and not to be relied on to make a point that I agree with.

At least Olbermann is funny.

408 SixDegrees  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:32:41am

re: #345 lawhawk

Certain manufacturers are in a better position to benefit from this program than others.

Chrysler isn't.

Ford and GM are. So are Mini Cooper (BMW). Toyota and Honda both are. Many of those foreign brands are made here in the US. Some of the domestic brands are made outside the US.

The car dealers who profit from sales are all located here. They'll benefit (if they ever get reimbursed from the feds).

A local news report yesterday said that Ford was enjoying most of the benefits of increased sales from this deal. This is on top of the news earlier in the week that Ford has substantially increased it's market share over the last quarter.

Chrysler has had to offer twofers to attract customers: matching the $4500 CFC discount with an additional $4500 rebate, knocking a total of $9000 off some of their products. It's a measure of how little faith the buying public has in a bankrupt company, I think. Not to mention that Chrysler has a very limited selection of models that qualify in the first place.

Trying to disentangle the foreign versus domestic content of cars is pointless. Cars made by American companies contain large percentages of foreign-made parts. Some are even assembled in foreign countries before being shipped here for final sale. Foreign-owned companies do a lot of their manufacturing and assembly in the US, and the dollars spent in those endeavors - roughly 95% of expenditures, assuming a very generous 5% profit margin - winds up circulating through the local economy. Like it or not, there's no such thing as an "American" car anymore; they're all global products.

409 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:33:37am

re: #370 reine.de.tout

I hate it when those comments get deleted before I can see them.

Me too:) Charles is no fun.
Charles please make a big fuss before you delete so we can run over there and see what the fuss is about?

410 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:33:56am

re: #406 Truck Monkey

I took typing in Junior High for much the same reason I took Home Economics in High School. The girls were there! ; )

By the time I got to middle school, a variety of soon-to-be-obsolete-or-unfunded electives were hanging on by a thread. You just got assigned to them, regardless of gender or preference.

I took Home Ec., typing, drafting, wood shop, more typing, more home ec...I was good at none of it.

411 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:34:25am

Oh brother. Newbusters promoted this yesterday.

And from the video:

"They can continue to track you basically forever,"

Guilfoyle

"Once they've tapped into your system, and the government of course has like malware systems and tracking cookies - they can tap in any time they want."

Guilfoyle

Tracking cookies! Malware systems! What the hell is a malware system?

412 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:35:04am

re: #401 Thanos

Not that I can find but he has his own ideas...
Limbaugh comes up with multiple conspiracy theories on cash-for-clunkers program

I think this whole thing is going to end up looking bad for the right.

413 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:35:25am

re: #409 BlueRoses

Me too:) Charles is no fun.
Charles please make a big fuss before you delete so we can run over there and see what the fuss is about?

You are like my cat, who always wanted to watch the toilet flush.

:D ... (teasing)

414 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:36:05am

Here's another one:

WARNING: Cash For Clunkers Program Gives Government Access To All Of Your Computer Files
By Tom XXX, on August 1st, 2009, at 2:28 pm

Are you thinking about visiting the cars.gov website to turn in your old clunker for up to $4,500 off on a new vehicle?

You may want to think twice before visiting on your computer. By accepting the Privacy and Security agreement, you are granting the government to every file on your computer.

And if you use Skype to talk over the internet, you are granting the government permission to listen in on your conversations and turn any information they find over to any agency they decide.

415 JEA62  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:36:13am

You're just realizing Beck has mental health issue NOW? Kinda slow, aintcha?

416 sngnsgt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:36:27am

I've done the dealership "sales manager" thing at car dealerships. The $4500 per clunker is only what dealers are going to "show you" on paper, especially for consumers with lousy credit. Lousy credit is going to cost you in interest rates with the banks, and they're more interested in approving loans for customers with lousy credit where they can add "a point or two" to the overall cost of the loan. They'll approve longer term loans for customers with bad credit because the payment on paper the customer sees is lower over a longer term loan but the bank makes more interest over the term of a longer loan. Someone with good credit will be able to get 24 to 36 month loans at a better rate although they'll have higher payments, but they'll be able to pay off the car sooner while people with lousy credit will get 60 month deals with lower payments but with higher interest rates over the term of the loan. Trust me, with the "$4500 per clunker" program, dealers and banks that sell car loans are frothing at the mouth. They're not in business to lose money on a car deal. This is sales manager and car salesman porn. Car companies are ecstatic to be able to move iron just to get rid of older inventory and be able to make a profit even if it's a smaller profit per unit. 

417 jaunte  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:37:11am

re: #414 Gus 802

And if you use Skype to talk over the internet, you are granting the government permission to listen in on your conversations and turn any information they find over to any agency they decide.

Can you imagine a more boring job than to listen to random Skype conversations?

418 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:37:27am

This is a valid Government IS disclaimer.

US DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE WARNING STATEMENT - You are accessing a U.S. Government (USG) Information System (IS) that is provided for USG-authorized use only. By using this IS (which includes any device attached to this IS), you consent to the following conditions -The USG routinely intercepts and monitors communications on this IS for purposes including, but not limited to, penetration testing, COMSEC monitoring, network operations and defense, personnel misconduct (PM), law enforcement (LE), and counterintelligence (CI) investigations. -At any time, the USG may inspect and seize data stored on this IS. -Communications using, or data stored on, this IS are not private, are subject to routine monitoring, interception, and search, and may be disclosed or used for any USG -authorized purpose. -This IS includes security measures (e.g., authentication and access controls) to protect USG interests--not for your personal benefit or privacy. -Notwithstanding the above, using this IS does not constitute consent to PM, LE or CI investigative searching or monitoring of the content of privileged communications, or work product, related to personal representation or services by attorneys, psychotherapists, or clergy, and their assistants. Such communications and work product are private and confidential. See User Agreement for details.

That cars.gov thing is outrageous, for its high-handedness and utter incompetence. Beck is a spittle-spraying moron, and I'd like to see the government back up the claim that my computer belings to the government while I'm logged in. Just the same, the "All Your Base" bureaucratic ass-covering approach is not how to do business.
They're opening a can of worms by presuming rights they do not have.

419 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:38:01am

re: #417 jaunte

Can you imagine a more boring job than to listen to random Skype conversations?

I know. Like I was telling the BDS sufferers from days gone by, the Feds don't even have that kind of manpower.

420 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:39:05am

re: #418 haakondahl

This is a valid Government IS disclaimer.

That cars.gov thing is outrageous, for its high-handedness and utter incompetence. Beck is a spittle-spraying moron, and I'd like to see the government back up the claim that my computer belings to the government while I'm logged in. Just the same, the "All Your Base" bureaucratic ass-covering approach is not how to do business.
They're opening a can of worms by presuming rights they do not have.

It's only for dealers.

421 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:39:14am

For those who, like me, cannot bear to watch the video, here is a partial transcript:

BECK: Let me bring in Kimberly Guilfoyle. She's here. She's a FOX News anchor.

Kim, I wanted to bring you in because the Cars.gov -- and I recommend, America, do not try this at home. I'm going to show it to you. This is somebody else's computer. I took it from their office, because I wouldn't do this on mine.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Yes.

BECK: Cars.gov. This actually came in a tip from what I call a constitutional watchdog. I'm asking my radio listeners earlier all this week to watch these things, because 10 million eyes on radio, and God knows how many millions of eyes here on television watching things that we can't watch. This is a frightening thing.

GUILFOYLE: It really is.

BECK: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Don't -- people shouldn't go on it right now while you're doing it. Don't do it.

BECK: Do not do this at home. Trust me. You'll understand why.

OK. Can you take a shot here of this, Oscar?

Here is Cars.gov. Let's say you go in. If I understand this right, I go in and I say, "I want to turn in my clunker." The dealer goes to Cars.gov, and then they hit "submit transaction." Here it says "privacy act and security statement," and it's like, oh, it's the Privacy Act of 1974. Whatever. I agree.

Now, this is how bad this system is. It probably won't pull up, because the system is so overwhelmed. You know, it was a $19 million Web site.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BECK: So, let me -- it's not going to pull up now. Watch. It's thinking. It's trying really hard.

Let me show you what it does say when you pull it up. Can you bring up the full screen on what it says?

A warning box comes up, and it says, "This application provides access to the DOT CARS system. When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a federal computer system and it is property of the United States Government. Or -- any or all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to authorized CARS, DOT, law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign."

Good God Almighty!

GUILFOYLE: Could it be any more broad and frightening? Here you are trying to be a good citizen and make a charitable contribution, do something that's good -- and guess what? They are jumping right inside you, seizing all of your personal and private.

BECK: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: And it's absolutely legal, Glenn. They can do it.

BECK: There's nothing -- you know what? In a million years, I wouldn't click "continue." In a million.

GUILFOYLE: You can't.

BECK: You can't.

GUILFOYLE: Because guess what? They can continue to track you basically forever. Once they tap into your system, the government, of course, has like malware systems and tracking cookies and they can tap in anytime you want.

For extra special awesome, Jonah Goldberg gets dragged along for the ride at the end. He's the one burbling about Skype and the gubbmint listening in on your calls:

GOLDBERG: Now, look, I agree that there's -- that it's all very troubling. And, look, let me give you a hard example of this. Say you use Skype or some other Internet phone system, right? If you're on the phone while logged in on this thing, according to this, according to a lawyer I talked to before -- Kim can verify this -- the government can legally listen to your phone call. They can check out what Web sites you've been searching.

GUILFOYLE: That's correct.

GOLDBERG: Because it says that the government -- your computer is a government's property.


[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

422 Render  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:39:15am

Another squadron of F-22's or this program?

VOTE,
R

423 jaunte  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:40:05am

re: #422 Render

The planes, the planes.

424 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:40:18am

re: #404 American Sabra

Sorry I had to take care of a dog v. cat crisis...

Let me put it this way. If Beck is the Olbermann of the Right, then wouldn't you agree with Olbermann once in awhile? Someone said up thread that a broken clock is right twice a day after all.

I'm not saying that either of these men don't make valid points now and then. Maybe they do. I don't pay attention long enough to find out. But you wouldn't carry around a broken clock with you and rely on it to tell time. That would be silly and useless. And that's what I think of both of them, even if I might agree with something they say. Silly and useless and not to be relied on to make a point that I agree with.

What she said!

425 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:41:45am

re: #418 haakondahl

Charles is right. It is only for dealers, and not just any dealer, but only the ones who have been screened and registered for the "cash for clunkers" program.

To summarize: the page in question isn't on cars.gov and can only be used by dealers who have already registered. Consumers won't be impacted by any of this.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

426 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:42:07am

re: #360 lawhawk

Well, You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey's uh, cod-kabobs, codcreole, codgumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple cod, lemon cod, coconut cod, pepper cod, cod soup, codstew, codsalad, codand potatoes, cod burger, cod sandwich. That- that's about it.

Cod Buba - your new nickname. :D

427 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:42:43am

re: #423 jaunte

The planes, the planes.

And in your Fantasy, Island on your side of the opinion poll.

/yes, I do

428 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:42:57am

re: #404 American Sabra

Sorry I had to take care of a dog v. cat crisis...

Let me put it this way. If Beck is the Olbermann of the Right, then wouldn't you agree with Olbermann once in awhile? Someone said up thread that a broken clock is right twice a day after all.

I'm not saying that either of these men don't make valid points now and then. Maybe they do. I don't pay attention long enough to find out. But you wouldn't carry around a broken clock with you and rely on it to tell time. That would be silly and useless. And that's what I think of both of them, even if I might agree with something they say. Silly and useless and not to be relied on to make a point that I agree with.

He may be a broken clock, but he's not right in any sense on this issue. The agreement is ONLY FOR DEALERS.

429 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:43:44am

re: #420 Charles

It's only for dealers.

But the dealers don't work for the government, and their property does not belong to the government. Not for a moment.

I work for the government, and my own property does not belong to the government. In fact, I work in IT for the government, and I have never had to sign over any property of mine.

If the system is actually "a federal system", then where is the mandatory anti-virus system, OS updates, system and group policy mechanisms?

This just stinks, not because it's evil, but because it's stupid, and stupidity like this opens doors for evil.

430 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:44:06am

re: #412 Killgore Trout

Not that I can find but he has his own ideas...
Limbaugh comes up with multiple conspiracy theories on cash-for-clunkers program

I think this whole thing is going to end up looking bad for the right.

I don't know about bad, just foolish. After a while, the Ian Paisley effect sets in.

431 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:44:26am

re: #428 Charles

He's may be a broken clock, but he's not right in any sense on this issue. The agreement is ONLY FOR DEALERS.

You have the patience of Job, you know.

432 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:45:16am

re: #420 Charles

It's only for dealers.

Here's the Dealer System Guide.

They're using Oracle software.

433 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:45:22am

re: #412 Killgore Trout

Not that I can find but he has his own ideas...
Limbaugh comes up with multiple conspiracy theories on cash-for-clunkers program

I think this whole thing is going to end up looking bad for the right.

Which is too bad. Cash-for-clunkers is a piece of sh*t, and apparently the right will prove this fact by smearing it all over themselves.

434 jaunte  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:45:31am

Beck is trying (for his own ratings sake) to exploit the paranoia about unauthorized computer access engendered by the recent Amazon Kindle story.

435 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:45:35am

re: #429 haakondahl

But the dealers don't work for the government, and their property does not belong to the government. Not for a moment.

Haak, it's only for dealers that have been screened for and registered for the program.

436 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:45:41am

re: #431 Cattt

You have the patience of Job, you know.

I guess...more than me, that's for sure...at least surf the thread

437 Mad Al-Jaffee  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:45:49am

re: #396 Truck Monkey

That is HILARIOUS! You had a Cod joke at the ready just for this occasion? 1000 updings.

It's one I heard a couple of years ago. When I read some of the cod comments, I had to find a version online and post it. Glad you liked it.

438 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:46:08am

Not only is the agreement intended just for dealers, it doesn't say what Beck is raving about anyway.

It says that files on the CARS system belong to the government, while a dealer's computer is logged on. They don't continue to claim a right to everything on the dealer's computer once it's logged off.

There's nothing wrong with this, even for dealers. They're engaged in a business agreement with the government, and there are accountability standards that have to be met, for better or worse.

This whole issue is pure tin foil.

439 rob.schmitt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:46:11am

re: #132 FrogMarch

Did Glen Beck and Co mention that this is for dealers only?
In any case, the language is a little startling, even for dealers.

Don't worry !!!
Your dealer's computer doesn't have ANY of your personal information on it! Like whether you paid cash or check, or credit card, or a bank loan, for your car. Or your checking account #; or the mileage on your trade-in; or your home address and phone #; and cell phone #; and if the buyer and registered owner are two different people. Or if the buyer and registered owner live in different states, you know, for reasons??!!! Oh, and if you [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] a care in Florida and one in N.Y., and the one in N.Y. has more miles driven per year, then do you REALLY 'reside' in Florida ??!!!

No, I'm SURE that Charles is correct, and, "Glenn Beck is a raving freakazoid nut sandwich", and that the Government cannot get any information on you , because, you know, this only pertains to DEALERS !!!
So, stop listening to Glenn Beck, because this is the Internet, and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
nd nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!and nothing can go wrong!
and nothing can go wrong!

440 American Sabra  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:47:10am

re: #428 Charles

He's may be a broken clock, but he's not right in any sense on this issue. The agreement is ONLY FOR DEALERS.

Right. Well I was responding initially to a thread starting at #176. Beck isn't to be relied on, period.

441 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:47:15am

Here's another manual:

Completing a CARS Rebate Application

Interesting to note that it has a 2004 copyright from Oracle.

442 jaunte  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:47:16am

re: #439 rob.schmitt

Keep your foam helmet on, the world is an uncertain place.

443 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:47:41am

re: #439 rob.schmitt

Rob? That officially a screed?

444 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:47:55am

re: #441 Gus 802

...might just be for the form.

445 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:47:56am

re: #439 rob.schmitt

Bye now! Have fun storming the castle.

446 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:48:14am

re: #439 rob.schmitt

you are starting to rave

447 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:48:47am

re: #413 pre-Boomer Marine brat

You are like my cat, who always wanted to watch the toilet flush.

:D ... (teasing)

You don't watch the toilet flush? :)

448 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:48:53am

re: #439 rob.schmitt

You need more CAPS LOCK. And bold.

Maybe some !!1!11!!! for good measure.

449 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:49:37am

re: #440 American Sabra

Right. Well I was responding initially to a thread starting at #176. Beck isn't to be relied on, period.

I wonder what it will take for people to realise he's insane. I have to hope some of the people watching him are doing so because of the trainwreck effect.

Tomorrow he'll be telling us that he lives in a pineapple under the sea. It's the only way to stay safe from the gubbmint!

450 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:50:00am

re: #439 rob.schmitt

Speaking of freakazoid raving ...

451 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:50:49am

From Hot Air's thread on this:

This is how the Nazis started. They didn’t fire up the ovens right off the bat. They gradually got to that point. Every other way they ran the government is being copied by Obama and the radical lefts in congress. If you don’t like the analogy of the Nazis, Fascist Italy works just as well.

mizflame98 on August 1, 2009 at 10:31 AM

452 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:52:10am

re: #439 rob.schmitt

Lol @ U.

453 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:52:36am

If this incites another Tim McVeigh (and I believe it easily could), people like Beck will have a lot more than ratings to worry about.

454 itellu3times  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:52:42am

re: #273 Render

F-22 Raptors cost around $138 million each.

That must be the unburdened cost.

Program cost of $65b divided by procurement of only 187 planes is, um, $347m each, but if you trade in your F-4 you get a $4,500,000 rebate.

455 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:52:46am

re: #439 rob.schmitt

I think that was the first (and apparently the last) actual contribution to LGF that I ever saw from rob.schmitt. He usually just hung around down-dinging spinoff links in an overly literal, missing-the-whole-point way based only on their title. For example, he would down-ding a link called "Obama quietly lifts sanctions on Iran," because he doesn't approve of lifting sanctions on Iran. I found it really annoying.

456 American Sabra  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:53:11am

re: #449 iceweasel

I wonder what it will take for people to realise he's insane. I have to hope some of the people watching him are doing so because of the trainwreck effect.

Tomorrow he'll be telling us that he lives in a pineapple under the sea. It's the only way to stay safe from the gubbmint!

lol I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden with you!

Youtube Video
457 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:53:19am

re: #449 iceweasel

I wonder what it will take for people to realise he's insane. I have to hope some of the people watching him are doing so because of the trainwreck effect.

Tomorrow he'll be telling us that he lives in a pineapple under the sea. It's the only way to stay safe from the gubbmint!

people want this stuff...that's why he's a wealthy celebrity

458 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:53:44am

re: #439 rob.schmitt

Get it?

He removed an "a" trying to make it look like the computer messed up. That was very clever.
/

459 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:54:02am

re: #452 Killgore Trout

Lol @ U.

gotta steal that one...time for me to get net hep

460 jcm  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:54:02am

Trouble in my neck of the woods at the Lazy B.

Boeing 787 wing flaw extends inside plane

An engineer familiar with the details said the damage happened when the stress on the wings was well below the load the wings must bear to be federally certified to carry passengers.

[snip]

CEO Jim McNerney said last week that a new schedule for first flight and delivery will be ready within the next two months.

Not a good thing when wings can fall off, not good at all.

461 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:54:16am

re: #451 Charles

From Hot Air's thread on this:

Oh brother. Some of these people are insane.

Don't they realize that this is basically a dealer financial system? Essentially it's a EULA for financial software for online transactions. Are they that dumb that they think they won't have security measures for it?

462 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:54:29am

re: #453 Shiplord Kirel

I think that's a very real possibility. Even "normal" conservatives are a little too wound up these days. There are crackpots on the brink out there.

463 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:54:54am

re: #454 itellu3times

That must be the unburdened cost.

Program cost of $65b divided by procurement of only 187 planes is, um, $347m each, but if you trade in your F-4 you get a $4,500,000 rebate.

Oh noz! Not the F-4. That ain't a clunker. ;)

464 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:55:02am

I wonder how many people who totally bought this from beck are also nirthers.

465 jaunte  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:55:23am
Your dealer's computer doesn't have ANY of your personal information on it! Like whether you paid cash or check, or credit card, or a bank loan, for your car.

They found I,.. I paid... with a CHECK!!11!! Where has our Freedom gone?

466 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:55:44am

re: #439 rob.schmitt

Did any of that post make sense to anyone?

467 jcm  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:55:57am

re: #439 rob.schmitt

Nurse! Room 439 missed his scheduled meds.

468 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:55:59am

re: #447 BlueRoses

You don't watch the toilet flush? :)

Yeah, I know, you're just tying to "spin" this subject ... :D

Dumb cat would jump up onto the very very rear of the bowl as I was standing at it, doing my thing. She was fascinated. ... Well, in the middle of one night, she leapt up and followed me into the bathroom, but misjudged her leap. Imagine trying frantically to stem the flow, slam the bathroom door (so she couldn't get out), then grab a rather wet cat and hold her under the spout in the tub.

469 SixDegrees  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:56:05am

re: #453 Shiplord Kirel

If this incites another Tim McVeigh (and I believe it easily could), people like Beck will have a lot more than ratings to worry about.

Sadly, I doubt it. Randall Terry has been getting away with similar incitement for years, and has successfully dodged prosecution for it, at least so far.

470 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:56:27am

re: #467 jcm

Nurse! Room 439 missed his scheduled meds.

And bring the smelling salts.

471 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:56:43am

re: #467 jcm

Nurse! Room 439 missed his scheduled meds.

I'm sorry doctor but we gave all those meds to Dr. Beck.

//

472 jaunte  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:56:56am

re: #466 Cattt

Did any of that post make sense to anyone?

I think it meant "trust no one."

473 JHW  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:56:57am

re: #465 jaunte

Heh, maybe the IRS will accept cash, I don't want the gubmint to know my bank account number.

474 pink freud  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:57:16am

re: #462 Killgore Trout

I think that's a very real possibility. Even "normal" conservatives are a little too wound up these days. There are crackpots on the brink out there.

A very reasonable explanation for this may well be that regular, normal, patriotic Americans are damn fearful about the direction the Democrats are taking this country and the breakneck pace in which they are doing it.

475 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:57:17am

re: #466 Cattt

Did any of that post make sense to anyone?

I think it was performance art, and he was trying to give us the sense of what it's like inside a schizophrenic's head.

They do say, "write what you know"...

476 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:57:18am

re: #470 Sharmuta

And bring the smelling salts.

And a martini.

477 Throbert McGee  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:57:27am

re: #179 Racer X

That divorce report is bogus. Google turns up one news article - the Palin hater site.

Dammit -- and here I was fantasizing about hooking up with Todd Palin for a little swordfighting and maybe a corndog-eating contest.

Which reminds me of something that I've badly wanted to confess to the married women of LGF for a long time (and this is not a joke): Ladies, be advised that although I am not a homewrecker and would never "steal" a woman's husband, I have been known to borrow a woman's husband on very rare occasions. Which is to say that I have technically facilitated adultery for a select handful of bi-married men who adored their wives but just needed to touch another man's pistol once in a while, and to kiss a face that gives them stubble-burn. It's a bi-guy thing -- don't ask me how they manage to be attracted to masculinity and femininity at the same time (though not in the same person, since I'm light-years away from the Androgyna galaxy), but they do.

Apologies for the TMI, but I just needed to unburden myself of this guilt. Not guilt about the sexually super-safe and sometimes emotionally intimate "buddy" relationships I've maintained with a very few married men over the years, but just guilt about having been too chickenshit to admit this before. (And, um, by "very few" I mean... 3. But while it's only 3 thus far, I've no intention of stopping my sexual rampage just yet.)

And I know that some will think me very sleazy for doing this, but all I can say is that if there's a G-d and someday I am called before the throne of judgment to explain my enabling of hot sweaty man-to-man adultery, I won't collapse in terror and plead for mercy. Instead I shall say, "Lord, I will bet you a jar of delicious gumdrops that if you just indulge me three minutes to present my case, I'll be able to convince you 100% that neither I nor those bisexual husbands deserve a dunk in boiling sulfur for what we did together."

Or to put it less colorfully, I just ask you to trust me when I say that although I've sinned and sinned and sinned, I have always thought long and hard very carefully about the ethical implications of my chosen sins.

And on that note, I'm off to the swimming pool...

478 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:57:33am

re: #445 Charles

Bye now! Have fun storming the castle.

Thanks Charles:)

479 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:57:46am

Sometimes I wish people were like dogs. When one of the dogs is irrational, or the dog equivalent of that, the alpha can settle it by biting his neck and shaking sense into him.

480 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:57:51am

That's two Beck meltdowns already today.

481 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:58:35am

For those who haven't been to the dealer site:

When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a Federal computer system and is the property of the United States Government.

This removes all of the owner's rights, because at this point, the dealer is no longer the owner.

This is BS and would never fly in court. So why is this what the website says?
It is laziness like this which fuels idiots like Beck. Meanwhile, since the owner has agreed that "his" system belongs to the government, he hasn't a leg to stand on if anything fishy should turn up.

Will the government begin pushing OS updates from Microsoft straight down to the systems they own located in dealerships. THEY ARE REQUIRED TO, on systems that they actually own.

482 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:58:44am

re: #472 jaunte

I think it meant "trust no one."

Maybe if I switched to my tin hat avatar I'd dig it.:D

483 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:58:48am

re: #451 Charles

From Hot Air's thread on this:

Wow. I noticed this in the Beck video:

Beck: Did America just hear what I heard? Jonah Goldberg talking about this government, and for no reason just brings Germany into it [laughs].

I wondered for a minute if he was trying to imply a comparison to Nazi Germany. But I figured I'd let it go, because he didn't necessarily say that, and I generally don't think it's a good idea to assume that people are believing something really offensive if it's not absolutely a sure thing.

484 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:58:59am

re: #477 Throbert McGee

Dammit -- and here I was fantasizing about hooking up with Todd Palin for a little swordfighting and maybe a corndog-eating contest.

Is that what you kids are calling it these days?

485 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:59:10am

re: #480 Charles

That's two Beck meltdowns already today.

I'd like a French dip, please - and fries.

486 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:59:19am

re: #454 itellu3times

That must be the unburdened cost.

Program cost of $65b divided by procurement of only 187 planes is, um, $347m each, but if you trade in your F-4 you get a $4,500,000 rebate.

You'll NEVER get my Phantom.

487 itellu3times  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:59:27am

re: #460 jcm

Trouble in my neck of the woods at the Lazy B.

Boeing 787 wing flaw extends inside plane

Major ouchy.

The structural flaw in the Boeing design was found in May during a ground test that bent the wings upward. Stresses at the ends of the long rods that stiffen the upper wing skin panels caused the fibrous layers of the composite plastic material to delaminate

That sounds like it could be a fabrication issue, but the rest of the article makes it sound like it's basic engineering screwup.

488 The Other Les  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:59:46am

re: #5 Charles

Beck's whole raving paranoid fantasy is based on the terms of service for the cars.gov site. He actually seems to think the government can take over your computer just by visiting that site.

"Do not visit this site!"

Moron.

The first time I caught Beck on the air I got the impression that he was wasting air. Both atmospherically and electromagnetically.

489 avanti  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:59:50am

re: #345 lawhawk

Certain manufacturers are in a better position to benefit from this program than others.

Chrysler isn't.

Ford and GM are. So are Mini Cooper (BMW). Toyota and Honda both are. Many of those foreign brands are made here in the US. Some of the domestic brands are made outside the US.

The car dealers who profit from sales are all located here. They'll benefit (if they ever get reimbursed from the feds).

Chrysler dealer around here are almost sold out of their Calibers and Sebrings, so they are doing well locally. With a 9K total rebate, it's a no brainer.

490 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 11:59:55am

re: #474 pink freud

Yeah, I think I understand where it's coming from but they're too wound up and usually about the wrong things. There's a big difference between opposing a policy and outright anti-government paranoia. Way too many people have crossed over into the latter. It's dangerous and unhealthy.

491 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:00:32pm

re: #461 Gus 802

Oh brother. Some of these people are insane.

Don't they realize that this is basically a dealer financial system? Essentially it's a EULA for financial software for online transactions. Are they that dumb that they think they won't have security measures for it?

That's exactly what it is -- notice that the site where the agreement/login page is located has the name: supplierpayments.esc.gov.

This is a financial system. The dealer EULA is 100% appropriate.

492 jaunte  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:00:56pm

Not sure how people can hold the "trust no one" mentality and yet put their faith so heavily on a celebrity political commentator that they're willing to be kicked off of LGF to show support.

493 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:01:00pm

re: #483 Last Mohican

I wondered for a minute if he was trying to imply a comparison to Nazi Germany. But I figured I'd let it go, because he didn't necessarily say that, and I generally don't think it's a good idea to assume that people are believing something really offensive if it's not absolutely a sure thing.

Considering beck thinks all the science czars are "evil, wicked, crazy frightening people" you have to wonder if the comparison wasn't there.

494 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:01:11pm

re: #481 haakondahl

For those who haven't been to the dealer site:

This removes all of the owner's rights, because at this point, the dealer is no longer the owner.

This is BS and would never fly in court. So why is this what the website says?
It is laziness like this which fuels idiots like Beck. Meanwhile, since the owner has agreed that "his" system belongs to the government, he hasn't a leg to stand on if anything fishy should turn up.

Will the government begin pushing OS updates from Microsoft straight down to the systems they own located in dealerships. THEY ARE REQUIRED TO, on systems that they actually own.

You forgot about one thing though.

When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a Federal computer system and is the property of the United States Government.

When-logged-on.

495 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:01:14pm

Sad. It just goes to show that belief in Cod availeth naught without a basic grounding in Ichtheology.

496 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:02:02pm

re: #474 pink freud

A very reasonable explanation for this may well be that regular, normal, patriotic Americans are damn fearful about the direction the Democrats are taking this country and the breakneck pace in which they are doing it.

Bravo to you. I agree. No time for reflection and for sensible answers. Besides much of what is being proposed by the Demos will not go into effect until well after the elections. Can't say they are totally dumb can we?

497 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:02:15pm

re: #477 Throbert McGee

Nothing personal, but, if I were one of the Carpenters? I'd not be Karen.

498 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:02:43pm

re: #480 Charles

That's two Beck meltdowns already today.

I missed the Beach Ball thread last night.
Is it too late to do a rant about how there wasn't a supertanker in it?

499 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:03:00pm

re: #456 American Sabra


re: #449 iceweasel

lol I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden with you!

I'll be the octopus. Just tending my garden. Look what lovely flowers!

500 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:03:05pm

re: #465 jaunte

They found I,.. I paid... with a CHECK!!11!! Where has our Freedom gone?

The Boston Tea Party started over less!

501 jcm  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:03:06pm

re: #487 itellu3times

That sounds like it could be a fabrication issue, but the rest of the article makes it sound like it's basic engineering screwup.

Folks that I've talked to at Lazy B say engineering. All the birds on the line will have to be modified. Union is pissed 'cause management is trying to lay it on manufacturing. Airlines are canceling orders, and it's two months till a new schedule.

SNAFU big time, next two months we should see senior management heads rolling.

502 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:03:11pm

re: #490 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I think I understand where it's coming from but they're too wound up and usually about the wrong things. There's a big difference between opposing a policy and outright anti-government paranoia. Way too many people have crossed over into the latter. It's dangerous and unhealthy.

it's all relative, a matter of degrees...blind faith in govt is just tossing your freedom away imo...it's the nature of the beast to continue to grow and become more complex

503 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:03:34pm

re: #477 Throbert McGee

Thanks for posting that.

Monogomy can present difficulties when you are bi. I personally am all for openness, but a lot of people aren't or are already in a situation where they just can't be.

504 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:04:10pm

re: #483 Last Mohican

I wondered for a minute if he was trying to imply a comparison to Nazi Germany. But I figured I'd let it go, because he didn't necessarily say that, and I generally don't think it's a good idea to assume that people are believing something really offensive if it's not absolutely a sure thing.

Goldberg absolutely is making a comparison to Nazi Germany. That's his whole deal. This is the guy who wrote Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning.

For a laugh, check out what some of the amazon tags are.


wingnut welfare(391)
propaganda(312)
editor promised cake(227)
books written while high on cheeto dust(66)
ein vol ein reich ein bag von cheetos(39)

Damn those liberal fascists and our oppressive, totalitarian snark!

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

505 jcm  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:04:41pm

re: #498 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I missed the Beach Ball thread last night.
Is it too late to do a rant about how there wasn't a supertanker in it?

Yeah why no supertanker threads!

Charles must hate supertankerism!

// ;-P

506 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:04:44pm

re: #480 Charles

That's two Beck meltdowns already today.

I saw that one Charles. It needed to go.

507 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:04:44pm

re: #491 Charles

That's exactly what it is -- notice that the site where the agreement/login page is located has the name: supplierpayments.esc.gov.

This is a financial system. The dealer EULA is 100% appropriate.

Exactly. Come to think of it this doesn't even involve the consumer. I'm looking at one of the user guides and it's for the dealer rebate. I don't see any buyer information there.

508 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:05:33pm

re: #503 Cattt

You are faithful, or you or not. Bi, Straight, or Gay...

509 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:05:42pm

re: #477 Throbert McGee

Dammit -- and here I was fantasizing about hooking up with Todd Palin for a little swordfighting and maybe a corndog-eating contest.

Which reminds me of something that I've badly wanted to confess to the married women of LGF for a long time (and this is not a joke): ...

Too Much Information, Sir!

Also, my husband is almost perversely straight.

I think I need to take a shower now.

510 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:05:52pm

re: #456 American Sabra

re: #499 haakondahl

I'll be the octopus. Just tending my garden. Look what lovely flowers!

I'd like to be...under the sea...

I loved that video!

511 The Other Les  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:06:29pm

re: #505 jcm

Yeah why no supertanker threads!

Charles must hate supertankerism!

// ;-P

Some one has to drive a supertanker to a point within the view of his camera.

It takes two to tanker.

512 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:06:30pm

re: #508 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You are faithful, or you are not. Bi, Straight, or Gay...

pimf

513 SixDegrees  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:07:11pm

re: #489 avanti

Chrysler dealer around here are almost sold out of their Calibers and Sebrings, so they are doing well locally. With a 9K total rebate, it's a no brainer.

That Chrysler needs to kick in 4500 bucks of their own to sweeten the deal does not speak well of Chrysler's current standing. It's a desperate attempt to cling onto their ever-shrinking market share at the expense of profits. That may be necessary and correct for them at this point, but it is hardly "doing well." At best, they're simply failing less epically. The only good news here is that they've finally located the price point needed to entice customers to buy products from a bankrupt company with a sucky product lineup. But it's a price point that isn't at all sustainable.

Ford is apparently doing well, and has increased it's market share over the last quarter - apparently at the expense of GM and Chrysler. But I'd hardly call their sales figures rosy.

514 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:07:21pm

re: #479 Cattt

Sometimes I wish people were like dogs. When one of the dogs is irrational, or the dog equivalent of that, the alpha can settle it by biting his neck and shaking sense into him.

In general, people would be better if we were more like dogs.

515 coquimbojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:07:36pm

re: #480 Charles

That's two Beck meltdowns already today.

Who? Where? I wanna see! Or just Glenn himself?

516 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:07:54pm

re: #494 Gus 802

You forgot about one thing though.
When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a Federal computer system and is the property of the United States Government.

When-logged-on.

Christ. I didn't forget. I posted that quote.

The point is that when I am logged into various systems, my computer never "belongs to" the government. When I work on systems that do belong to the government, the requirements for maintaining the system are formidable.

517 jcm  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:08:05pm

re: #511 The Other Les

Some one has to drive a supertanker to a point within the view of his camera.

It takes two to tanker.

IT'S A CONSPIRACY!

518 itellu3times  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:08:10pm

re: #481 haakondahl

When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a Federal computer system and is the property of the United States Government.

That's just silly, a transfer OF OWNERSHIP? Ridiculous. Come on, I know there are attorneys here, does that make any sense at all?

Anyway, any of this click-thru stuff is contract of adhesion time anyway, I don't care how many times they make you swear otherwise.

But hey, if it's govmint property, and I get repetitive-stress syndrome, can I sue the government for sick time and rehab? Can they come down and install some more RAM for me? Don't I have to load up the government standard anti-virus and security settings, give up my local admin rights, run my IP through their proxy server, and make sure I have a black, a cripple, and a Jew on my staff?

519 The Other Les  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:08:52pm

re: #517 jcm

IT'S A CONSPIRACY!

Mulder?

520 SixDegrees  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:09:20pm

re: #492 jaunte

Not sure how people can hold the "trust no one" mentality and yet put their faith so heavily on a celebrity political commentator that they're willing to be kicked off of LGF to show support.

I have to wonder why they're willing to log on to the Internet at all, given their deep paranoia about such things. What are they doing posting on public web forums? Don't they know there aren't enough layers of tinfoil available to make that safe?

Maybe they stuff their clothing with Christmas tinsel.

521 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:09:26pm

re: #498 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I missed the Beach Ball thread last night.
Is it too late to do a rant about how there wasn't a supertanker in it?

Actually, if you look really closely at the horizon just to the left of center...

522 Gus  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:10:00pm

OK, gotta get some coffee.

I think we can call this:

EULAGate

523 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:10:33pm

re: #439 rob.schmitt

Seeing has how Charles decided to let this flounce stay posted, I'll ask an idle question.

Do you suppose that rob.schmitt used copy-and-paste for that repeating line at the end? Or did he actually type out all of the letters manually?

524 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:10:34pm

re: #521 Charles

For a fairly serious guy, you can be funny as hell...

525 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:10:36pm

The Tea Party become Code Pink...
Right-Wing Harassment Strategy Against Dems Detailed In Memo: ‘Yell,’ ‘Stand Up And Shout Out,’ ‘Rattle Him’

The lobbyist-run groups Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks, which orchestrated the anti-Obama tea parties earlier this year, are now pursuing an aggressive strategy to create an image of mass public opposition to health care and clean energy reform. A leaked memo from Bob MacGuffie, a volunteer with the FreedomWorks website Tea Party Patriots, details how members should be infiltrating town halls and harassing Democratic members of Congress:
...
The memo above also resembles the talking points being distributed by FreedomWorks for pushing an anti-health reform assault all summer. Patients United, a front group maintained by Americans for Prosperity, is currently busing people all over the country for more protests against Democratic members. Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX), chairman of the NRCC, has endorsed the strategy, telling the Politico the days of civil town halls are now “over.”

Also see: Town halls gone wild

526 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:10:38pm

re: #503 Cattt

Thanks for posting that.

Monogomy can present difficulties when you are bi. I personally am all for openness, but a lot of people aren't or are already in a situation where they just can't be.

Monogamy can present difficulties when you're straight, as well, so I observe. My own theory, borrowed from Barbara Kingsolver, is that an animal with a brain big enough to comprehend a contract also should be smart enough not to enter into one it can't keep.

527 Irish Rose  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:10:39pm

Charles, have you seen this outstanding column over at Harry's Place?

The BNP’s real concern is race, not Islam

528 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:11:48pm

re: #511 The Other Les

Some one has to drive a supertanker to a point within the view of his camera.

It takes two to tanker.

We're getting crude now.

/good!

529 jcm  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:12:03pm

re: #519 The Other Les

Mulder?

The supertanker is out there!

530 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:12:04pm

re: #523 Last Mohican

I hope he typed it.

I'd hate for my very last comment (ever) at this site to be something that I just lazily cut and pasted.

It would haunt me for the rest of my life. I'd be very, very sad.

531 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:12:11pm

re: #503 Cattt


Monogomy can present difficulties when you are bi. I personally am all for openness, but a lot of people aren't or are already in a situation where they just can't be.

re: #508 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You are faithful, or you or not. Bi, Straight, or Gay...

I've no problem with anything anyone does, so long as everyone's honest and open about it. If you're bi and you can't be monogamous, you need to tell your partner that. Not everyone who is bi has problems with monogamy. Those are separate issues.

That being said, 1) throbert hasn't actually said whether the wives of these men know what they're up to. For we know (and for all he knows) they know all about it and have given permission.

2) Throbert isn't the one who made a promise that he's breaking
and finally
3) I appreciate throbert's honesty.

532 Chekote  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:12:42pm

Is Beck losing ratings lately? I haven't check them but he seems to be getting more and more shrill. Or maybe he is just "unbalanced".

533 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:12:42pm

re: #526 SanFranciscoZionist

kin-a

534 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:12:42pm

re: #523 Last Mohican

Seeing has how Charles decided to let this flounce stay posted, I'll ask an idle question.

Do you suppose that rob.schmitt used copy-and-paste for that repeating line at the end? Or did he actually type out all of the letters manually?

Like this...

Youtube Video
535 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:13:54pm

re: #532 Chekote

Last I saw (a few weeks ago) his ratings were going up. IIRC he was making huge gains. He has the 3rd highest rated cable news show.

536 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:14:02pm

re: #521 Charles

Actually, if you look really closely at the horizon just to the left of center...

You're just trying to gull me!

/IIRC, that usage is damned archaic

537 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:14:48pm

re: #534 Killgore Trout

Now that was a proper flounce-off!

538 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:15:17pm

re: #497 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey! Throb! You got my joke! Thanks!

(no one ever gets that.)

539 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:15:18pm

Beck's foolishness notwithstanding, CFC is an example of the Obama administration's idea of how to administer a program that affects your personal life... make that medical care...
Their planning was worse than FEMA's during Katrina as far as being prepared for the response. We have plenty of foreshadowing with this stuff... none of the House or Senate's responsible members should vote to let the government administer this much of the nation's tax money in a new direction.

540 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:15:41pm

re: #511 The Other Les

Some one has to drive a supertanker to a point within the view of his camera.

It takes two to tanker.

Char;es, I think we need a [groan] button, just for pun threads.

541 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:17:02pm

re: #508 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You are faithful, or you or not. Bi, Straight, or Gay...

So? Not everyone is faithful.

542 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:17:04pm

re: #539 tradewind

Beck's foolishness notwithstanding, CFC is an example of the Obama administration's idea of how to administer a program that affects your personal life... make that medical care...
Their planning was worse than FEMA's during Katrina as far as being prepared for the response. We have plenty of foreshadowing with this stuff... none of the House or Senate's responsible members should vote to let the government administer this much of the nation's tax money in a new direction.

No, this is a good example of an Obama program that was so successful that there was no way the Democrats or the Republicans could have foresaw this kind of response.

And then, on Friday, they did the right thing by adding 2 billion more dollars to the program.

What did they do wrong?

543 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:17:07pm

re: #531 iceweasel

I've no problem with anything anyone does, so long as everyone's honest and open about it. If you're bi and you can't be monogamous, you need to tell your partner that. Not everyone who is bi has problems with monogamy. Those are separate issues.

That being said, 1) throbert hasn't actually said whether the wives of these men know what they're up to. For we know (and for all he knows) they know all about it and have given permission.

2) Throbert isn't the one who made a promise that he's breaking
and finally
3) I appreciate throbert's honesty.

I know people who have open marriages/relationships. Some work better than others. I also know people who've gotten through some major breaches of trust in their relationships.

Honesty, and real care for your partner(s), is the key thing, I think.

544 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:17:15pm

re: #534 Killgore Trout

Like this...



LOL!

545 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:18:21pm

re: #540 haakondahl

[Link: www.audiosparx.com...]

546 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:19:07pm

re: #532 Chekote

Is Beck losing ratings lately? I haven't check them but he seems to be getting more and more shrill. Or maybe he is just "unbalanced".

I actually do think that the man is suffering from something--chemical, emotional--I've only seem him for short bursts, but I can hardly stand to watch. Maybe it's just an elaborate stage persona, but it's frightening. I don't think he's well, and I don't really think this kind of national exposure is the best way to do your therapy.

547 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:19:23pm

re: #541 Cattt

True.

548 jcm  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:20:12pm

re: #528 pre-Boomer Marine brat

We're getting crude now.

/good!

Who are you calling un-refined?

549 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:20:42pm

re: #546 SanFranciscoZionist

I actually do think that the man is suffering from something--chemical, emotional--I've only seem him for short bursts, but I can hardly stand to watch. Maybe it's just an elaborate stage persona, but it's frightening. I don't think he's well, and I don't really think this kind of national exposure is the best way to do your therapy.

His mind has gone blind from too much of that ... y'know ... "activity".

550 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:22:47pm

re: #546 SanFranciscoZionist

I actually do think that the man is suffering from something--chemical, emotional--I've only seem him for short bursts, but I can hardly stand to watch. Maybe it's just an elaborate stage persona, but it's frightening. I don't think he's well, and I don't really think this kind of national exposure is the best way to do your therapy.

it doesn't make ant difference whether he has made up his personna or not...it works and he's raking in the dough...the ultimate impact on drooling viewers is the only thing that counts

551 swamprat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:22:48pm

re: #546 SanFranciscoZionist

He does a pitcher of redbull expresso before each show.

552 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:22:50pm

re: #542 Walter L. Newton

I said they were unprepared, and they were... the agency was incapable of handling the influx.
Also, this is wreaking havoc with auto scrap dealers and related businesses, and making it hard to find parts...
[Link: www.newson6.com...]
it's wasteful in many respects.
Not saying it's not great if you need a new car and want to get rid of a junker, but it will create as many problems as it solves, which the administration just ignores.

553 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:23:13pm

re: #549 pre-Boomer Marine brat

His mind has gone blind from too much of that ... y'know ... "activity".

Are you talking about masturbation or cocaine?

554 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:23:16pm

re: #543 SanFranciscoZionist

I know people who have open marriages/relationships. Some work better than others. I also know people who've gotten through some major breaches of trust in their relationships.

Honesty, and real care for your partner(s), is the key thing, I think.

Completely agree with you. I know people in all kinds of relationships and the only determining factor about how well they work is honesty and caring.

I'm really tired of the idea that bisexuals can't be monogamous, or have some special problem with monogamy. Lots of people struggle with monogamy; lots of people choose it and stick to it. It's got nothing to do with sexual orientation per se.

In any case, whether you're monogamous or polyamorous or whatever your choices are, I think telling the truth to your partner(s) and self is a reasonable ethical standard that ought to apply to all regardless of orientation.

"Don't hurt yourself, and don't hurt others." Apart from that, let people's freak flags fly!

555 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:23:29pm

re: #548 jcm

Who are you calling un-refined?

Maybe I need more coffee. Trying to distill another pun has been difficult!

556 debutaunt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:23:30pm

re: #36 avanti

Why did Beck caution the consumer to not go to the cars.gov web site ? The warning he talks about is only on the link to be used by dealers that signed up to get rebates from the government.
Does Beck know that fact, and is just spewing out propaganda, or is he a idiot ?

an idiot.

557 Chekote  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:23:44pm

re: #535 Killgore Trout

Thanks.

558 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:23:56pm

re: #547 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

True.

I personally think openness and honesty is best and try never to make a promise I cannot keep, but people get into situations sometimes - that's what I was trying to convey. People are human.

559 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:23:57pm

re: #552 tradewind

I said they were unprepared, and they were... the agency was incapable of handling the influx.
Also, this is wreaking havoc with auto scrap dealers and related businesses, and making it hard to find parts...
[Link: www.newson6.com...]
it's wasteful in many respects.
Not saying it's not great if you need a new car and want to get rid of a junker, but it will create as many problems as it solves, which the administration just ignores.

It doesn't matter if it is creating problems, the people are getting their cars, that's what counts, and that is working royally.

560 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:24:24pm

re: #550 albusteve

it doesn't make ant difference whether he has made up his personna or not...it works and he's raking in the dough...the ultimate impact on drooling viewers is the only thing that counts

Well, in terms of HIM it makes some difference. If it's not an act, he's going to fall completely apart before long, and spend a lot of that money being put back together.

Do I care? Only in the sense that I think that mentally ill people should be taken care of, and not used as freaks in shows.

561 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:24:45pm

re: #552 tradewind

I said they were unprepared, and they were... the agency was incapable of handling the influx.
Also, this is wreaking havoc with auto scrap dealers and related businesses, and making it hard to find parts...
[Link: www.newson6.com...]
it's wasteful in many respects.
Not saying it's not great if you need a new car and want to get rid of a junker, but it will create as many problems as it solves, which the administration just ignores.

yup...but that's all secondary to the pandering aspect...it should be illegal imo

562 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:24:45pm

re: #552 tradewind

I said they were unprepared, and they were... the agency was incapable of handling the influx.
Also, this is wreaking havoc with auto scrap dealers and related businesses, and making it hard to find parts...
[Link: www.newson6.com...]
it's wasteful in many respects.
Not saying it's not great if you need a new car and want to get rid of a junker, but it will create as many problems as it solves, which the administration just ignores.

This system is designed to rid the roads of cars you can fix without taking to the dealer. For $4,500, you can kiss some more freedom good-bye.

563 avanti  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:24:47pm

re: #513 SixDegrees

That Chrysler needs to kick in 4500 bucks of their own to sweeten the deal does not speak well of Chrysler's current standing. It's a desperate attempt to cling onto their ever-shrinking market share at the expense of profits. That may be necessary and correct for them at this point, but it is hardly "doing well." At best, they're simply failing less epically. The only good news here is that they've finally located the price point needed to entice customers to buy products from a bankrupt company with a sucky product lineup. But it's a price point that isn't at all sustainable.


It's a funny deal with Chrysler, the day the extra rebate was announced, the dealer had many models marked down near or over the extra rebate, but then went to full sticker with it, and you saved nothing.

Ford is apparently doing well, and has increased it's market share over the last quarter - apparently at the expense of GM and Chrysler. But I'd hardly call their sales figures rosy.

564 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:24:49pm

Killgore, I thought you were going to link The Shining where Jack is typing his manuscript. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

565 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:25:07pm

re: #554 iceweasel

Open Marriage is an oxymoron. Most marriage ceremonies include the promise to remain faithful to one another until death.

566 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:25:16pm

re: #551 swamprat

He does a pitcher of redbull expresso before each show.

Is that mixed Red Bull and espresso, or do you make the espresso using Red Bull instead of water?

567 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:25:46pm

re: #559 Walter L. Newton

Yep, that's the Dem mindset allright: ' I'm gettin' mine, so who cares...'?

568 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:25:51pm

re: #564 Cattt

Ohhh, good one.

569 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:25:56pm

re: #553 SanFranciscoZionist

Are you talking about masturbation or cocaine?

The former -- mental masturbation as a metaphor for complete vapidity.
Utterly unfamiliar with the latter.

570 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:26:22pm

re: #565 tradewind

Open Marriage is an oxymoron. Most marriage ceremonies include the promise to remain faithful to one another until death.

"Open Marriage" is a civil union. All contract, no obligations.

571 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:26:29pm

re: #566 SanFranciscoZionist

Wow... that's a heart attack on speed dial...

572 BlackFedora  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:26:36pm

What the hell is this? Did Glenn Beck just see the movie Eagle Eye or The Net and think both movies were documentaries? There is something in the cocaine that is being snorted at Fox News.

Kimberly Guilfoyle went right along with the nuttiness. It looked like maybe Jonah Goldberg was a little put off by it though.

"They're just evil!"

Oh c'mon. That's what children say.

573 swamprat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:26:40pm

re: #566 SanFranciscoZionist

the latter

574 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:26:51pm

re: #560 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, in terms of HIM it makes some difference. If it's not an act, he's going to fall completely apart before long, and spend a lot of that money being put back together.

Do I care? Only in the sense that I think that mentally ill people should be taken care of, and not used as freaks in shows.

I doubt he's mentally ill...either way I could care less

575 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:26:55pm

re: #564 Cattt

What a great movie...

Youtube Video
576 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:26:56pm

re: #567 tradewind

Yep, that's the Dem mindset allright: ' I'm gettin' mine, so who cares...'?

And you think there is something wrong with that?

577 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:27:07pm

re: #564 Cattt

Killgore, I thought you were going to link The Shining where Jack is typing his manuscript. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Youtube Video
578 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:27:14pm

re: #565 tradewind

Open Marriage is an oxymoron. Most marriage ceremonies include the promise to remain faithful to one another until death.

Which is why I'm not married.

579 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:27:25pm

Heh.

580 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:27:56pm

re: #560 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, in terms of HIM it makes some difference. If it's not an act, he's going to fall completely apart before long, and spend a lot of that money being put back together.

Do I care? Only in the sense that I think that mentally ill people should be taken care of, and not used as freaks in shows.

Agreed. I can't watch Beck or the various mashups of his worst moments making the rounds of the left sites because I can't laugh at him.

He seems dangerously disturbed. Anyone who doubts it need only look at the bizarre youtube video of his broadcast from a hospital bed after his operation. The man has some very deep problems and I think people are deriving money and entertainment from watching what is in essence the complete collapse of a personality.

I'd feel a lot better if I believed he was an entertainer who created a persona, like Rush.

581 ShanghaiEd  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:28:11pm

re: #395 reine.de.tout

Reine: That's a trip, isn't it? I was the only male in my high school class (1967) to take Gregg Shorthand in addition to (co-ed) touch typing. I used it daily for many years as a newspaper reporter, until cheap audio recorders became ubiquitous.

Bizzare part is, I still remember most of the symbols. I'm guessing if I started using it every day again, it would come back to me. Mizz Clarissa Stalcup tattoed it on my gray matter, apparently. Bless her heart.

582 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:28:34pm

re: #554 iceweasel

I'm really tired of the idea that bisexuals can't be monogamous, or have some special problem with monogamy. Lots of people struggle with monogamy; lots of people choose it and stick to it. It's got nothing to do with sexual orientation per se.

It's especially no problem for bisexuals married to hermaphrodites.

583 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:29:08pm

re: #554 iceweasel

Completely agree with you. I know people in all kinds of relationships and the only determining factor about how well they work is honesty and caring.

I'm really tired of the idea that bisexuals can't be monogamous, or have some special problem with monogamy. Lots of people struggle with monogamy; lots of people choose it and stick to it. It's got nothing to do with sexual orientation per se.

In any case, whether you're monogamous or polyamorous or whatever your choices are, I think telling the truth to your partner(s) and self is a reasonable ethical standard that ought to apply to all regardless of orientation.

"Don't hurt yourself, and don't hurt others." Apart from that, let people's freak flags fly!

Quite agree.

I'm bi, and in a monogamous 'traditional' relationship. Works for us. As far as I'm concerned, what that means is that if the husband and I don't make it to the retirement home together--probably because he won't stop eating bacon on everything--the next partner could be a man or a woman. I'm an old-fashioned gal.

I strongly believe that other people's relationships, and how they set them up, are their business, just so long as nobody gets recklessly hurt.

584 debutaunt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:29:11pm

re: #521 Charles

Actually, if you look really closely at the horizon just to the left of center...

You have to squint? We want a shock and awe supertanker.

585 jcm  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:29:43pm

re: #555 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Maybe I need more coffee. Trying to distill another pun has been difficult!

Puns are all they're cracked up to be.

586 Chekote  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:29:48pm

re: #546 SanFranciscoZionist

I agree. Maybe he is getting more shrill because he can't handle the pressure of being under the national spotlight. I too had to stop watching him. He felt like a train wreck.

587 avanti  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:30:24pm

re: #543 SanFranciscoZionist

I know people who have open marriages/relationships. Some work better than others. I also know people who've gotten through some major breaches of trust in their relationships.

Honesty, and real care for your partner(s), is the key thing, I think.

My marriage is simi open, since I met my wife through my female friend, and have had female friends since. Just being able to have female friends makes me more sure that I picked the best one to marry. My wife goes out line dancing every week, and I'm sure she enjoys the occasional dance with another man, but we trust each other. We just celebrated 40 years of marriage, so it works for us.

588 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:30:27pm

re: #468 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Yeah, I know, you're just tying to "spin" this subject ... :D

Dumb cat would jump up onto the very very rear of the bowl as I was standing at it, doing my thing. She was fascinated. ... Well, in the middle of one night, she leapt up and followed me into the bathroom, but misjudged her leap. Imagine trying frantically to stem the flow, slam the bathroom door (so she couldn't get out), then grab a rather wet cat and hold her under the spout in the tub.


LOL

589 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:30:30pm

re: #576 Walter L. Newton

Actually, it surprises me that you don't.
Societies that operate that way don't really have very good.. or long... track records.

590 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:30:49pm

re: #527 Irish Rose

Charles, have you seen this outstanding column over at Harry's Place?

The BNP’s real concern is race, not Islam

I know people who are voting for the BNP. Good solid citizens they appear to be. So my question to you is... are my friends delusional when they think the BNP will help restore their country to what it used to be before their government decided to secede so much power to the EU?
I detect a lot of anger amongst ordinary citizens over there or am I wrong and everything is roses?

591 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:30:50pm

re: #546 SanFranciscoZionist

I actually do think that the man is suffering from something--chemical, emotional--I've only seem him for short bursts, but I can hardly stand to watch. Maybe it's just an elaborate stage persona, but it's frightening. I don't think he's well, and I don't really think this kind of national exposure is the best way to do your therapy.

I think you may be right, and, in a sense, the people who keep him on the air would be worsening his illness by supporting his behavior.

I'm reminded of this video from the reality show "She's Got the Look," in which a contestant with some mental illness, bipolar disorder I suppose, decompensates during one episode:

Youtube Video

I've never watched "She's Got the Look," but I saw a video with clips from previous episodes. This woman had been showing obvious signs of mental illness in prior episodes, and they were keeping her around because they knew that people would enjoy tuning in and laughing at her.

The Beck situation is different, of course, because people aren't tuning in to laugh at him, they're tuning in to find resonance for their absurd political paranoid. Less unethical, I guess, but ultimately damaging to a larger number of people.

592 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:31:06pm

re: #565 tradewind

Most marriage ceremonies include the promise to remain faithful to one another until death.

So what? Lots of ceremonies also include the promise for a wife to obey her husband.
Marriages are what the people involved in them make of them together.

593 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:31:11pm

re: #578 Cattt

And kudos, because that is not only an honest, but a moral choice/answer.

594 jcm  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:31:40pm

re: #584 debutaunt

You have to squint? We want a shock and awe supertanker.

Right in your face!

595 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:31:47pm

re: #554 iceweasel

Good comment. We all tend to generalize when it comes to the subject of sexual orientation - and I do mean we all. It's a complex subject.

I think the situation is painful, however, for bisexuals who maybe were in denial or pushing that away from their reality when they married then have those feelings leap out at them. They aren't rejecting their marriage, but they want more. I still think honesty and openness even then is usually going to work out best, but each situation is different.

596 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:32:17pm

re: #570 haakondahl

"Open Marriage" is a civil union. All contract, no obligations.

Most people I know in 'open marriages' have very clearly defined obligations. I've always said I couldn't be 'polyamorous', because it seems like half their time is spent defining terms and conditions.

597 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:32:38pm

re: #589 tradewind

Actually, it surprises me that you don't.
Societies that operate that way don't really have very good.. or long... track records.

Of course I think that's bad, but I was asking you.

598 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:32:40pm

re: #592 iceweasel

I said most, not all.
I understand that there are exceptions, but I don't believe that there are that many couples who love each other as man and wife who happily share.

599 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:32:41pm

re: #584 debutaunt

You have to squint? We want a shock and awe supertanker.

And the smell of dead kelp at the high-water line wafting about.

/assuming one has the necessary hardware upgrade

600 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:32:49pm

re: #587 avanti

My marriage is simi open, since I met my wife through my female friend, and have had female friends since. Just being able to have female friends makes me more sure that I picked the best one to marry. My wife goes out line dancing every week, and I'm sure she enjoys the occasional dance with another man, but we trust each other. We just celebrated 40 years of marriage, so it works for us.

What? Dancing and friends make a marriage open?

No. Sex does. I would hate to hear that my marriage is "open" in some way because I have females friends. Or do you mean... "friends"?

601 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:33:22pm

re: #590 BlueRoses

I know people who are voting for the BNP. Good solid citizens they appear to be. So my question to you is... are my friends delusional when they think the BNP will help restore their country to what it used to be before their government decided to secede so much power to the EU?

Yes, your friends are delusional. The BNP is an openly white supremacist group, with neo-Nazi roots.

602 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:33:40pm

re: #591 Last Mohican

I think you may be right, and, in a sense, the people who keep him on the air would be worsening his illness by supporting his behavior.

I'm reminded of this video from the reality show "She's Got the Look," in which a contestant with some mental illness, bipolar disorder I suppose, decompensates during one episode:


[Video]I've never watched "She's Got the Look," but I saw a video with clips from previous episodes. This woman had been showing obvious signs of mental illness in prior episodes, and they were keeping her around because they knew that people would enjoy tuning in and laughing at her.

The Beck situation is different, of course, because people aren't tuning in to laugh at him, they're tuning in to find resonance for their absurd political paranoid. Less unethical, I guess, but ultimately damaging to a larger number of people.

lots of Beck viewers here...maybe fewer than a few months ago

603 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:33:40pm

re: #573 swamprat

the latter

Don't you lose the carbonation when you heat the Red Bull?

604 Truck Monkey  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:33:51pm

re: #565 tradewind

Open Marriage is an oxymoron. Most marriage ceremonies include the promise to remain faithful to one another until death.

Why have a "marriage" at all? Seems rather odd to want to commit yourself to one person only to go out and look for someone else.

605 jcm  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:34:01pm

re: #592 iceweasel

So what? Lots of ceremonies also include the promise for a wife to obey her husband.
Marriages are what the people involved in them make of them together.

And the husband is supposed to love, honor and cherish his wife.

606 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:34:01pm

re: #587 avanti

My marriage is simi open, since I met my wife through my female friend, and have had female friends since. Just being able to have female friends makes me more sure that I picked the best one to marry. My wife goes out line dancing every week, and I'm sure she enjoys the occasional dance with another man, but we trust each other. We just celebrated 40 years of marriage, so it works for us.

Uh, avanti, friendly word: "open" marriage doesn't mean having friends of the other sex, but rather not being monogamous sexually. Best not to say 'semi-open' .

607 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:34:13pm

re: #585 jcm

Puns are all they're cracked up to be.

A towering comment!

/Damn, I couldn't figger out how to use it earlier! ... Good job!

608 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:34:17pm

re: #590 BlueRoses

are my friends delusional when they think the BNP will help restore their country to what it used to be before their government decided to secede so much power to the EU?

Did it used to be a place where those who are not white or not Christian get shipped "back" to where ever they "came from" ?

609 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:34:28pm

re: #597 Walter L. Newton

Sorry, my sarc/alert radar must have been knocked out by these thunderstorms we're having...

610 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:35:06pm

re: #596 SanFranciscoZionist

Most people I know in 'open marriages' have very clearly defined obligations.

What are those obligations?

611 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:35:20pm

re: #609 tradewind

Sorry, my sarc/alert radar must have been knocked out by these thunderstorms we're having...

That's OK, I was looking for reactions, not humor.

612 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:35:24pm

re: #587 avanti

My marriage is simi open, since I met my wife through my female friend, and have had female friends since. Just being able to have female friends makes me more sure that I picked the best one to marry. My wife goes out line dancing every week, and I'm sure she enjoys the occasional dance with another man, but we trust each other. We just celebrated 40 years of marriage, so it works for us.

Mazal tov on your anniversary!

613 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:35:47pm

re: #582 haakondahl

It's especially no problem for bisexuals married to hermaphrodites.

That reminds me of Lois McMaster Bujold's Miles Verkosigan series, where there is a planet of hippy dippy open type people who centuries earlier produced via genetics a race of hermaphrodites. The captain of the ship is such and is fascinating.

Great space opera series, if you haven't read it.

614 swamprat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:35:51pm

re: #603 SanFranciscoZionist

Don't know. I made it up. Here's your leg back.

615 jcm  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:35:58pm

re: #607 pre-Boomer Marine brat

A towering comment!

/Damn, I couldn't figger out how to use it earlier! ... Good job!

Just have to have the right catalyst!

616 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:36:05pm

re: #596 SanFranciscoZionist

Most people I know in 'open marriages' have very clearly defined obligations. I've always said I couldn't be 'polyamorous', because it seems like half their time is spent defining terms and conditions.

Same here. And I know people who are poly and unmarried, and it's teh same deal. All kinds of rules and obligations.

617 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:38:19pm

re: #616 iceweasel

Same here. And I know people who are poly and unmarried, and it's teh same deal. All kinds of rules and obligations.

What are the obligations?

618 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:38:49pm

re: #587 avanti

My marriage is simi open, since I met my wife through my female friend, and have had female friends since

...
Umm, no, that's what's known as a normal, non- Sharia marriage in America today. If you were not allowed female friendships, that would be abnormal.
Just saying...

619 HelloDare  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:39:50pm

Palin Camp Shoots Down Ridiculous Divorce Rumors Spread by CNN Stringer Dennis Zaki

The release is in response to a ludicrous rumor being spread by Alaskan CNN stringer Dennis Zaki. Zaki, who previously bought into rumors of Trig Truth, picked up these allegations from the same source - the rabidly anti-Palin, Trig Truth-espousing anonymous blogger "Gryphen" of the blog "Immoral Minority". Gryphen is a friend of Zaki's, along with fellow Team Truth members Shannyn Moore, Phil Munger, and "AKMuckraker" of the Mudflats.

The rumor was already being picked up and spread around the echo chamber of the Alaskan Team Truther blogs...not only by Zaki, but by fellow Trig Truther "Doctor Phil" Munger of Progressive Alaska.


(At the beginning of the month, Zaki reported that Gov. Palin was being investigated by the FBI and was going to jail. That turned out to be false. Last week, the ADN reported that Gov. Palin was moving to the Hamptons. That turned out to be false. Today, Zaki reports that Gov. Palin is moving to Montana after throwing her wedding ring into Lake Lucille. That turns out to be false.)

620 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:40:08pm

re: #604 Truck Monkey
Amen. Anything else can be contractually set up, no need for all the messy marriage stuff...

621 Irish Rose  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:40:11pm

re: #587 avanti

My marriage is simi open, since I met my wife through my female friend, and have had female friends since. Just being able to have female friends makes me more sure that I picked the best one to marry. My wife goes out line dancing every week, and I'm sure she enjoys the occasional dance with another man, but we trust each other. We just celebrated 40 years of marriage, so it works for us.

I know a couple that has a true "open marriage"... in other words, they're into the "lifestyle". Have been for years, in fact. They're one of the most stable, loving and devoted couples that I know. They've been married over 25 years, and they absolutely adore each other.

It's not for everyone, of course, I'm just sayin'...

622 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:40:38pm

The only question at this point is whether Glenn Beck deliberately misled his viewers into thinking this agreement was on the cars.gov site, and that it applied to all consumers who visit the page. Both of those assertions are demonstrably false.

I suspect Beck did it deliberately. That little sham of trying to get the page to come up was BS -- he HAD the TOS for cars.gov on his screen when he was running that bit of misdirection, in that little popup dialog box. He knew it wasn't there where he said it was.

623 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:40:53pm

re: #581 ShanghaiEd

Reine: That's a trip, isn't it? I was the only male in my high school class (1967) to take Gregg Shorthand in addition to (co-ed) touch typing. I used it daily for many years as a newspaper reporter, until cheap audio recorders became ubiquitous.

Bizzare part is, I still remember most of the symbols. I'm guessing if I started using it every day again, it would come back to me. Mizz Clarissa Stalcup tattoed it on my gray matter, apparently. Bless her heart.

Typing class is now called "keyboarding".
and everbody takes it.

624 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:41:34pm

re: #615 jcm

Just have to have the right catalyst!

Though you're obviously vaporous, you do seem to be rising to the proper level.

625 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:41:56pm

re: #619 HelloDare

This just makes it more clear that her resignation was a selfless act that kept the people of AL from being dragged through more of the same.
Not saying she won't benefit in other ways from resigning, or that she didn't have any other motives, but under the circumstances, what would have been cowardly and irresponsible was to remain governor.
Not that the MSM will ever let that take on it be published...

626 The Other Les  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:42:24pm

re: #619 HelloDare

With a track record like that a rational employer would fire Zaki. Good thing for him that he's working for CNN.

627 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:42:24pm

re: #619 HelloDare

Palin Camp Shoots Down Ridiculous Divorce Rumors Spread by CNN Stringer Dennis Zaki

The release is in response to a ludicrous rumor being spread by Alaskan CNN stringer Dennis Zaki. Zaki, who previously bought into rumors of Trig Truth, picked up these allegations from the same source - the rabidly anti-Palin, Trig Truth-espousing anonymous blogger "Gryphen" of the blog "Immoral Minority". Gryphen is a friend of Zaki's, along with fellow Team Truth members Shannyn Moore, Phil Munger, and "AKMuckraker" of the Mudflats.

The rumor was already being picked up and spread around the echo chamber of the Alaskan Team Truther blogs...not only by Zaki, but by fellow Trig Truther "Doctor Phil" Munger of Progressive Alaska.

(At the beginning of the month, Zaki reported that Gov. Palin was being investigated by the FBI and was going to jail. That turned out to be false. Last week, the ADN reported that Gov. Palin was moving to the Hamptons. That turned out to be false. Today, Zaki reports that Gov. Palin is moving to Montana after throwing her wedding ring into Lake Lucille. That turns out to be false.)

Correct. It was false. She threw her wedding ring into Lake Powell right after getting married in Henderson Nevada to a magician that works the Sand Castle Casino showroom there.
/

628 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:42:39pm

re: #610 haakondahl

What are those obligations?

Depends from couple to couple, but primarily to keep the marital relationship central, and put its wellbeing first. This can include letting a spouse veto choices of who you 'date', or letting a spouse call off other relationships for a time because they feel neglected. Rules about others in the family, and what they're allowed to know about your respective love lives. All kinds of stuff. Basically, you have to be careful not to neglect your primary relationship just because you're allowed to get sex and romance elsewhere.

629 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:42:47pm

re: #619 HelloDare

I'm embarrassed. I fell for this like a ton of bricks.

630 wahabicorridor  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:43:21pm

Just a thought - I wonder if Beck files his Fed income taxes electronically?

hmmm..

631 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:45:15pm

re: #630 wahabicorridor

Didn't he endorse Turbotax or some other such software?

632 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:45:43pm

I need to go shopping. I've lost three sizes and need something hot and glittery for the Adam Lambert concert. And I promised to make a glittery sign for the MotherFuckingBand. (They get all happy when someone does that - most people ignore the band.)

Luckily, I have all my old jeans - size 7 (as if) up.

633 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:45:49pm

re: #601 Charles

Yes, your friends are delusional. The BNP is an openly white supremacist group, with neo-Nazi roots.

Yep I know but they think it is the only way to get their government to listen to them. Dangerous thinking I know :(

634 avanti  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:46:05pm

Wow, even Free Republic is slamming Beck.

To: Federalist Patriot
Mr. Beck is either lying or he got punked on this story.

1. This page is not on the cars.gov website. There is no way to even get there from cars.gov so his warning not to go there was complete fear-mongering. If he didn't know this then his research team really needs to go!

2. It is only available to pre-authorized dealers who are accessing govt records (VIN, etc.) and transferring thousands of dollars.

3. As over the top as it is, this sort of language is fairly common on government websites and has been for many years.

635 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:46:08pm

re: #630 wahabicorridor

Just a thought - I wonder if Beck files his Fed income taxes electronically?

hmmm..

I wonder if he files them honestly.

636 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:46:24pm

re: #632 Cattt

I need to go shopping. I've lost three sizes and need something hot and glittery for the Adam Lambert concert. And I promised to make a glittery sign for the MotherFuckingBand. (They get all happy when someone does that - most people ignore the band.)

Luckily, I have all my old jeans - size 7 (as if) up.

Who is Adam Lambert? And why would anyone go see him?

637 debutaunt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:46:26pm

re: #619 HelloDare

Fool me 17 times, shame on me.

638 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:46:28pm

re: #617 haakondahl

What are the obligations?

Honesty is usually the main one. There are usually very strict rules about what you can and can't do with the 'other' partner(s). Safe sex is usually a demand. Sometimes the obligation might be that the spouse is always present and/or included in all activities.

Often the rules include that the spouse or primary partner meet and approve of all potential partners. Often the primary partner maintains friendships with the other partners--so the wife is friends with the girlfriends, or the husband with the boyfriends.

Sexual jealousy and jealousy in general are normal parts of human nature and if you want to avoid these things you have to be very careful, very sensitive to your partner's feelings, and very respectful.

Then there are a host of rules regarding who among friends and family you're 'out' to. All kinds of stuff.

That being said, the poly people I know run the gamut in terms of what the rules are in their specific relationships. The main one is supposed to be honesty, and protecting the primacy of the main relationship/main partnership. Those interests are supposed to always come first.

639 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:46:28pm

re: #628 SanFranciscoZionist

Depends from couple to couple, but primarily to keep the marital relationship central, and put its wellbeing first. This can include letting a spouse veto choices of who you 'date', or letting a spouse call off other relationships for a time because they feel neglected. Rules about others in the family, and what they're allowed to know about your respective love lives. All kinds of stuff. Basically, you have to be careful not to neglect your primary relationship just because you're allowed to get sex and romance elsewhere.

I cannot accept that sex and romance are not primary to marriage...way too bizarre for me

640 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:47:31pm

re: #635 Cato the Elder

Why should he worry about that under an Obama administration?

641 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:47:40pm

re: #622 Charles

The only question at this point is whether Glenn Beck deliberately misled his viewers into thinking this agreement was on the cars.gov site, and that it applied to all consumers who visit the page. Both of those assertions are demonstrably false.

I suspect Beck did it deliberately. That little sham of trying to get the page to come up was BS -- he HAD the TOS for cars.gov on his screen when he was running that bit of misdirection, in that little popup dialog box. He knew it wasn't there where he said it was.

I didn't watch the Beck segment--I care nothing what he has to say, as I've seen more than enough of his drama-queen pandering. I therefore remain blissfully ignorant of what he was trying to do, but I take it from you and folks here that he got it wrong yet again, and coincidentally enough, in a way designed to spark inappropriate indignation and of course ratings.
The only point I am trying to make is that the disclaimer which actually is on the site, and which is intended for dealers only, and applies only while the dealer is logged into the gov'ts larger system--is still an outrage of bureaucratic overreach. It's not imperial, it's not a conspiracy--it's just laziness.
Would any of us here accept that the government "owned" our systems for the duration that we logged into irs.gov?

642 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:47:55pm

re: #639 albusteve

I cannot accept that sex and romance are not primary to marriage...way too bizarre for me

I think 'poly' folks would say that it's primary, just not exclusive.

It's not appealing to me, but it seems to work for some folks.

643 The Other Les  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:48:00pm

re: #639 albusteve

I cannot accept that sex and romance are not primary to marriage...way too bizarre for me

For some people its money.

For example, Karl Marx and John Kerry.

644 jcm  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:48:36pm

re: #624 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Though you're obviously vaporous, you do seem to be rising to the proper level.

Now you're just causing fraction in a well lubricated system!

645 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:48:38pm

re: #632 Cattt

Just don't waste time trying to get Adam's attention, he's taken,... and by the other team.

646 HelloDare  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:49:03pm

Bigfoot cited as corespondent in Palin divorce. /

647 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:49:04pm

re: #645 tradewind

Just don't waste time trying to get Adam's attention, he's taken,... and by the other team.

Who is he?

648 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:49:12pm

re: #608 wrenchwench

Did it used to be a place where those who are not white or not Christian get shipped "back" to where ever they "came from" ?

It used to be a place where people didn't demonstrate on the streets to kill the kufar because of a cartoon or so they say.

649 avanti  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:49:14pm

re: #622 Charles

The only question at this point is whether Glenn Beck deliberately misled his viewers into thinking this agreement was on the cars.gov site, and that it applied to all consumers who visit the page. Both of those assertions are demonstrably false.

I suspect Beck did it deliberately. That little sham of trying to get the page to come up was BS -- he HAD the TOS for cars.gov on his screen when he was running that bit of misdirection, in that little popup dialog box. He knew it wasn't there where he said it was.

Charles, there is a dealer link on the cars.gov site, but I did not follow it since it's overloaded to see where it went. it might be worth a check, not that it would make any difference.

650 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:49:48pm

re: #642 SanFranciscoZionist

I think 'poly' folks would say that it's primary, just not exclusive.

It's not appealing to me, but it seems to work for some folks.


yes of course

651 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:49:56pm

re: #646 HelloDare

That's gonna be one hairy situation...

652 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:50:14pm

re: #628 SanFranciscoZionist

Depends from couple to couple, but primarily to keep the marital relationship central, and put its wellbeing first. This can include letting a spouse veto choices of who you 'date', or letting a spouse call off other relationships for a time because they feel neglected. Rules about others in the family, and what they're allowed to know about your respective love lives. All kinds of stuff. Basically, you have to be careful not to neglect your primary relationship just because you're allowed to get sex and romance elsewhere.

Thanks for the info.

653 swamprat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:50:56pm

re: #629 Cattt

I'm embarrassed. I fell for this like a ton of bricks.

Have a pitcher of redbull expresso. It'll help you relax.

654 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:51:01pm

re: #644 jcm

Now you're just causing fraction in a well lubricated system!

LOL!
You win!
The road to punster hell is greased with good inventions.

655 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:51:05pm

re: #619 HelloDare

Palin Camp Shoots Down Ridiculous Divorce Rumors Spread by CNN Stringer Dennis Zaki

The release is in response to a ludicrous rumor being spread by Alaskan CNN stringer Dennis Zaki. Zaki, who previously bought into rumors of Trig Truth, picked up these allegations from the same source - the rabidly anti-Palin, Trig Truth-espousing anonymous blogger "Gryphen" of the blog "Immoral Minority". Gryphen is a friend of Zaki's, along with fellow Team Truth members Shannyn Moore, Phil Munger, and "AKMuckraker" of the Mudflats.

The rumor was already being picked up and spread around the echo chamber of the Alaskan Team Truther blogs...not only by Zaki, but by fellow Trig Truther "Doctor Phil" Munger of Progressive Alaska.


(At the beginning of the month, Zaki reported that Gov. Palin was being investigated by the FBI and was going to jail. That turned out to be false. Last week, the ADN reported that Gov. Palin was moving to the Hamptons. That turned out to be false. Today, Zaki reports that Gov. Palin is moving to Montana after throwing her wedding ring into Lake Lucille. That turns out to be false.)

Public figures like Sarah Palin have a higher threshold to reach than ordinary citizens to bring a successful defamation suit.
I do believe in her case that the threshold has been met over & over.
You may not like her politics, but what did she ever do to anybody?
She strikes me as a decent person who along with her family have been savaged by gutteral individuals.

656 kiwiviv  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:51:12pm

re: #632 Cattt

Good for you - getting rid of the pounds - how did you do it?

657 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:51:12pm

re: #638 iceweasel

Honesty is usually the main one. There are usually very strict rules about what you can and can't do with the 'other' partner(s). Safe sex is usually a demand. Sometimes the obligation might be that the spouse is always present and/or included in all activities.

Often the rules include that the spouse or primary partner meet and approve of all potential partners. Often the primary partner maintains friendships with the other partners--so the wife is friends with the girlfriends, or the husband with the boyfriends.

Sexual jealousy and jealousy in general are normal parts of human nature and if you want to avoid these things you have to be very careful, very sensitive to your partner's feelings, and very respectful.

Then there are a host of rules regarding who among friends and family you're 'out' to. All kinds of stuff.

That being said, the poly people I know run the gamut in terms of what the rules are in their specific relationships. The main one is supposed to be honesty, and protecting the primacy of the main relationship/main partnership. Those interests are supposed to always come first.

Thanks for the info.

658 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:51:17pm

Thinking about where used car dealers fall on the trust meter in America, how much room for shenanigans do you imagine there is in this program? Just a little?

659 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:51:30pm

re: #647 Walter L. Newton

Who is he?

Came in second on American Idol.

660 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:51:31pm

re: #647 Walter L. Newton

Who is he?

Former American Idol finalist, I think. Quite pretty. Came out to shocked gasps from five naive teenage girls. The rest of America said "Right, knew that."

661 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:51:47pm

re: #647 Walter L. Newton

Who is he?

Wait a second, ok, I just looked this Adam Lambert up. Why in heavens name would anyone put up with this drama-queen.

Here we are talking about the nut Glenn Beck, and on the other hand, people swoon over this Lambert dude.

I just read an article about one of his rants. He's worthless and I wouldn't give him the time of day if he asked nicely.

Emo bullshit. And someone will pay good money to see this?

[Link: www.showbizspy.com...]

662 kiwiviv  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:52:11pm

re: #647 Walter L. Newton

Who is he?

Adam was a contestant on American Idol last season - he came second

663 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:52:45pm

re: #658 tradewind

Thinking about where used car dealers fall on the trust meter in America, how much room for shenanigans do you imagine there is in this program? Just a little?

What do used car dealers have to do with beck lying?

664 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:52:54pm

re: #661 Walter L. Newton

Wait a second, ok, I just looked this Adam Lambert up. Why in heavens name would anyone put up with this drama-queen.

Here we are talking about the nut Glenn Beck, and on the other hand, people swoon over this Lambert dude.

I just read an article about one of his rants. He's worthless and I wouldn't give him the time of day if he asked nicely.

Emo bullshit. And someone will pay good money to see this?

[Link: www.showbizspy.com...]

woof!

665 wahabicorridor  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:53:21pm

re: #631 Noam Sayin'

Didn't he endorse Turbotax or some other such software?

I think he did - something like that - during Geitner's confirmation.

666 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:53:40pm

re: #647 Walter L. Newton

The singer who came in second on American Idol. His fans think he was robbed because photos of him with his boyfriend hit the web before the judging... who knows. I doubt it.

667 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:54:07pm

re: #663 Sharmuta

What do used car dealers have to do with beck lying?

I didn't see that as any comment on Beck, just a criticism of the program.

668 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:54:24pm

re: #662 kiwiviv

Adam was a contestant on American Idol last season - he came second

After reading the article I just did, he should have crashed and burned. What a bunch of bullshit. I work in professional theatre, and if we had ANYONE act like this at work, he would be fired pronto.

669 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:54:50pm

re: #661 Walter L. Newton

He had a voice, depending on the genre. Perfect replacement for the lead in Queen, no pun intended, honest... he had that sound down perfectly.
He's headed to Broadway, and he will do really well there.

670 kiwiviv  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:55:38pm

Beck is on right now (I am in the Admiral's Club in Dallas) debating with Ben Stein regarding Obama and Israel - interesting

671 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:55:45pm

The day I have nothing better to do than watch American Idle, please hunt me down and kill me. Same for Dancing with the Stars, and a whole boatload of that other crap.

672 wahabicorridor  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:55:49pm

re: #658 tradewind

Thinking about where used car dealers fall on the trust meter in America, how much room for shenanigans do you imagine there is in this program? Just a little?

Lots. There was someone on Cavuto yesterday (didn't catch his name) who was talking about the German pgm. At least 10% of the cars scheduled for demolition ended up in South America via black markets. And apparently, here the dealers are required to destroy only the engines - which is a spare parts bonanza for somebody.

673 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:56:11pm

re: #667 Last Mohican

Alright. Maybe I need a nap.

674 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:56:26pm

re: #663 Sharmuta

What do used car dealers have to do with beck lying?

Whoa, I don't think he's making that connection.

675 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:56:33pm

re: #632 Cattt

I need to go shopping. I've lost three sizes and need something hot and glittery for the Adam Lambert concert. And I promised to make a glittery sign for the MotherFuckingBand. (They get all happy when someone does that - most people ignore the band.)

Luckily, I have all my old jeans - size 7 (as if) up.

Comgratulations, but keep the pounds off, ... otherwise it'll be such a waist.

/seriously! congrats!

676 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:56:35pm

re: #655 opnion

Public figures like Sarah Palin have a higher threshold to reach than ordinary citizens to bring a successful defamation suit.
I do believe in her case that the threshold has been met over & over.
You may not like her politics, but what did she ever do to anybody?
She strikes me as a decent person who along with her family have been savaged by gutteral individuals.

Thanks for the update. I like Sarh Palin and she sure has a few folks scared doesn't she?

677 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:56:36pm

re: #669 tradewind

He had a voice, depending on the genre. Perfect replacement for the lead in Queen, no pun intended, honest... he had that sound down perfectly.
He's headed to Broadway, and he will do really well there.

Not with the attitude I was reading about. Live theatre is not about divas and emo's. If he starts that shit he will burn every bridge he crosses.

I don't care how good of a voice he has. Theatre is an ensemble venture and there are no real stars.

678 Empire1  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:57:19pm

Could those of you who might feel so inclined spare a good thought or prayer for my landlord's sister-in-law, Mary Lou? She was taken to the local hospital late yesterday with nausea and sudden inability to stand up, and then medevaced by helicopter to the major medical center (Christiana) up in Wilmington. From what Carl said, she has a broken blood vessel in her head.

I'm no doctor, but that doesn't sound good to me. Last we heard, she was resting comfortably. Her husband and my landlady are up to visit and talk to the doctors as I type.

679 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:57:39pm

re: #663 Sharmuta

Nothing. What's the point of your question... am I off topic?

680 Ojoe  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:57:50pm

Which car is glen beck driving?

681 pink freud  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:58:14pm

re: #678 Empire1

Done. Best wishes.

682 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:58:34pm

re: #673 Sharmuta

Alright. Maybe I need a nap.

I know that I certainly do. I'm trying to decide if it should be before, after, or instead of my run.

683 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:58:40pm

bbl

684 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:59:02pm

re: #678 Empire1

Could those of you who might feel so inclined spare a good thought or prayer for my landlord's sister-in-law, Mary Lou? She was taken to the local hospital late yesterday with nausea and sudden inability to stand up, and then medevaced by helicopter to the major medical center (Christiana) up in Wilmington. From what Carl said, she has a broken blood vessel in her head.

I'm no doctor, but that doesn't sound good to me. Last we heard, she was resting comfortably. Her husband and my landlady are up to visit and talk to the doctors as I type.

I hope Mary Lou does well. Good call, whoever got the medical response ball rolling.

685 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:59:03pm

re: #671 haakondahl

The day I have nothing better to do than watch American Idle, please hunt me down and kill me. Same for Dancing with the Stars, and a whole boatload of that other crap.

I like Dancing with the Stars. Hubby disappears tho when I have it on.

686 kiwiviv  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:59:07pm

re: #668 Walter L. Newton

I totally agree with you - if that article is true, then he needs to be laughed out of the business. He does have a good voice, but no one should have to put up with that kind of stupidity

687 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:59:31pm

re: #677 Walter L. Newton

He toured with the national cast of Wicked, and the LA theater group for a while, and one other touring production, I forget. But yeah, I bet the producers aren't the fondest of his temperament.

688 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 12:59:52pm

re: #326 rob.schmitt

Charles,
You have an extremely short attention span.
I realized that since Beck believes in Cod, you feel that you must destroy him. But, given that he does four (4) HOURS of broadcast per day, not all of his topics and guests are fully 'vetted.' That being said, sometimes when he "smells a rat", he may inflate the potential to the scale of a bubonic plague, but there usually IS a rat.
And, Charles, the 'fact' that this EULA is similar to others in private commerce actually begs the question.
I have not read the EULA in question, but I think that a good analogy would be to an apartment lease which always contains a clause granting the land-lord the right of 'entry and inspection.' By your reasoning, there would be no cause for alarm if the clause also included the right of the Police to enter at any time, without a warrant. If Glenn Beck were to get upset about such a lease, would you be so sanguine about his being "a raving freakazoid nut sandwich ?"

Why are you so steadfastly defending Beck when his "record" speaks for itself? It's also pretty crass of you to pull the "evil atheist attacking upstanding Christian" card...that just shows your biases right there.

/"Do the letters "F.O." mean anything to you?" - Bandit to Sheriff Buford T. Justice

689 rightymouse  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:00:19pm

re: #619 HelloDare

Thank you for posting that.
Also...
Anyone seeing this picture would realize that the divorce rumor was just more Palin-hating crap.

690 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:00:24pm

re: #687 tradewind

He toured with the national cast of Wicked, and the LA theater group for a while, and one other touring production, I forget. But yeah, I bet the producers aren't the fondest of his temperament.

People like him do not last in live theatre.

691 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:00:27pm

re: #685 BlueRoses

I like Dancing with the Stars. Hubby disappears tho when I have it on.

Good News! He's straight.

692 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:00:29pm

re: #671 haakondahl

The day I have nothing better to do than watch American Idle, please hunt me down and kill me. Same for Dancing with the Stars, and a whole boatload of that other crap.

I'm in full agreement with you personally, but then I think of the various ways I waste my own time. (Buffy addiction, etc.)

693 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:00:40pm

re: #678 Empire1

Could those of you who might feel so inclined spare a good thought or prayer for my landlord's sister-in-law, Mary Lou? She was taken to the local hospital late yesterday with nausea and sudden inability to stand up, and then medevaced by helicopter to the major medical center (Christiana) up in Wilmington. From what Carl said, she has a broken blood vessel in her head.

I'm no doctor, but that doesn't sound good to me. Last we heard, she was resting comfortably. Her husband and my landlady are up to visit and talk to the doctors as I type.

Sounds like a stroke. I hope she heals quickly ;)

694 wahabicorridor  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:00:55pm

re: #678 Empire1

Done. And don't worry too much. I know after Natasha Richardson a lot of people think this kind of this is always fatal - but not if they can get to it soon enough.

695 SteveC  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:01:10pm

re: #678 Empire1

Could those of you who might feel so inclined spare a good thought or prayer for my landlord's sister-in-law, Mary Lou?

That won't be any problem at all. (I actually think that's on page 3 of the Good Lizard Handbook)

696 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:01:27pm

re: #688 talon_262

Why are you so steadfastly defending Beck when his "record" speaks for itself? It's also pretty crass of you to pull the "evil atheist attacking upstanding Christian" card...that just shows your biases right there.

/"Do the letters "F.O." mean anything to you?" - Bandit to Sheriff Buford T. Justice


Heh. Wait until talon_262 gets to the copy & post!

697 kiwiviv  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:01:32pm

re: #678 Empire1

Christiana is is my prayers

698 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:01:46pm

re: #676 BlueRoses

Thanks for the update. I like Sarh Palin and she sure has a few folks scared doesn't she?

Oh yeah, if she didn't scare them, they would leave her alone.
I don't remember any public figure ever being this abused.
Dave Letterman needs the snot slapped out of him.

699 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:02:00pm

re: #636 Walter L. Newton

Who is Adam Lambert? And why would anyone go see him?

Are you toying with me? Do you really want to know? Do you really REALLY want to know?

He's in the American Idol tour this summer. He's tall, gorgeous, sexy, talented, beautiful, sweet, smart, polite, gay, and Jewish. Oh, and he is addictive. Yes, he is.

Pic with Fergie.
He is really really nice.

Youtube Video
700 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:02:20pm

re: #691 haakondahl

Good News! He's straight.

ROFL! You are right!

701 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:02:45pm

re: #686 kiwiviv

I totally agree with you - if that article is true, then he needs to be laughed out of the business. He does have a good voice, but no one should have to put up with that kind of stupidity

Act stupid & have beers with Obama!

702 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:03:08pm

re: #678 Empire1

A ruptured aneurysm, I guess. Although one would expect the primary symptom in that case to be a sudden, severe headache rather than nausea or weakness. Anyway, I'm glad she got medical attention promptly, and I hope she gets better soon.

703 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:03:26pm

re: #692 iceweasel

I'm in full agreement with you personally, but then I think of the various ways I waste my own time. (Buffy addiction, etc.)

I hold no brief for Buffy, but as much as I loathe a lot of bad TV, I have a special cask of Old Testament bile reserved for those programs which purport to be some sort of "reality", but which are just a more insidious form of Madison Avenue brain-engineering.

704 debutaunt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:03:34pm

re: #688 talon_262

re: #326 rob.schmitt

"Charles,
You have an extremely short attention span.
I realized that since Beck believes in Cod, you feel that you must destroy him."

I also believe in Cod, but not so much in Beck.

705 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:03:40pm

re: #671 haakondahl

It was a first for me, since I hate reality shows, but there were two hometown finalists, and my son knew a friend of one of their friends who yada yada......
The judges were the best part. Frigging freak show right there.

706 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:03:44pm

re: #698 opnion

Oh yeah, if she didn't scare them, they would leave her alone.
I don't remember any public figure ever being this abused.
Dave Letterman needs the snot slapped out of him.

Let's go tar and feather him.

707 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:04:42pm

re: #688 talon_262

Hey, somehow I initially missed rob's pre-flounce comment. Now I understand all the Cod references!

I guess I'm not surprised to learn that Glen Beck believes in Cod...

708 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:04:43pm

re: #685 BlueRoses

I like Dancing with the Stars. Hubby disappears tho when I have it on.

Hell's Kitchen!

709 Mad Al-Jaffee  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:04:49pm

I just picked up the dog from grooming. Like every summer when she gets shaved, she looks like a cross between a weasel and a plucked chicken. But she's much cooler in this 80-90 degree weather!

710 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:05:32pm

re: #703 haakondahl

I hold no brief for Buffy, but as much as I loathe a lot of bad TV, I have a special cask of Old Testament bile reserved for those programs which purport to be some sort of "reality", but which are just a more insidious form of Madison Avenue brain-engineering.

That I can agree with. All that Fear Factor/MTV's unReal World/Big Brother crap.

711 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:05:34pm

re: #699 Cattt

But there's something about a grown man in black nail polish that just doesn't do it for me.
Still, a fan is a fan... have fun!

712 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:05:34pm

re: #703 haakondahl

I hold no brief for Buffy, but as much as I loathe a lot of bad TV, I have a special cask of Old Testament bile reserved for those programs which purport to be some sort of "reality", but which are just a more insidious form of Madison Avenue brain-engineering.

Like Hell's Kitchen? I liked that show but this season it has gone over the top.

713 SteveC  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:06:18pm

re: #704 debutaunt

I also believe in Cod, but not so much in Beck.

I believe in Cod, just for the Halibut.

714 Dominic Yeso  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:06:32pm

Glen Beck is Cod.

715 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:06:53pm

re: #697 kiwiviv

Christiana is is my prayers

Christiana is the name of the hospital. Mary Lou is the loved one. But not to worry, I think God seldom gets confused by things like this.

716 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:06:57pm

re: #706 BlueRoses

Let's go tar and feather him.

Damn straight & then we'll demand to do a Top 10 list!

717 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:07:00pm

re: #712 BlueRoses

Like Hell's Kitchen? I liked that show but this season it has gone over the top.

If you like Hell's Kitchen, you should try to get the UK version of Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares. (UK one is far better than the US one). It's great!

718 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:07:09pm

re: #706 BlueRoses

Let's go tar and feather him.

So what do you think of Robert Spencer?

719 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:07:25pm

re: #714 Dominic Yeso

Glen Beck is Cod.

White and flaky?

720 wahabicorridor  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:07:46pm

re: #713 SteveC

I believe in Cod, just for the Halibut.

AAAGGGHH!
*whack*

721 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:07:48pm

re: #704 debutaunt

re: #326 rob.schmitt

"Charles,
You have an extremely short attention span.
I realized that since Beck believes in Cod, you feel that you must destroy him."

I also believe in Cod, but not so much in Beck.

I believe in flounder.

722 Dominic Yeso  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:07:55pm

re: #719 SanFranciscoZionist

and over done.

723 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:07:55pm

re: #699 Cattt

Oh crap...
Please tell me that what Fergie is wearing is not gonna hit the high schools as the latest date wear this fall...
Her stylist should be sacked.

724 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:08:23pm

re: #711 tradewind

But there's something about a grown man in black nail polish that just doesn't do it for me.
Still, a fan is a fan... have fun!

TY. He also wears a really nice dark blue a lot. :D

725 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:08:53pm

re: #717 iceweasel

If you like Hell's Kitchen, you should try to get the UK version of Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares. (UK one is far better than the US one). It's great!

Wonder if Netflix has it. Kitchen Nightmares is less appealing to me, I think because these people are actually relying on this guy to save their bacon. Hell's Kitchen is pure entertainment.

726 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:09:01pm

re: #719 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, fishy, and a little oily.

727 kiwiviv  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:09:17pm

re: #715 Last Mohican

Christiana is the name of the hospital. Mary Lou is the loved one. But not to worry, I think God seldom gets confused by things like this.

Ahhh...ok...thanks for the correction, though I am sure the hospital could use some prayer at any time! Mary Lou is now in my thoughts and prayers.

728 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:09:38pm

re: #699 Cattt

Are you toying with me? Do you really want to know? Do you really REALLY want to know?

He's in the American Idol tour this summer. He's tall, gorgeous, sexy, talented, beautiful, sweet, smart, polite, gay, and Jewish. Oh, and he is addictive. Yes, he is.

Pic with Fergie.
He is really really nice.

[Video]

wow...sounds like the perfect human being

729 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:10:32pm

re: #712 BlueRoses

Like Hell's Kitchen? I liked that show but this season it has gone over the top.

I saw a single episode. The host created half of the stress. It's better for ratings that way.

I like "The Deadliest Catch" and Cops. Haven't heard of any manipulative nonsense. The format doesn't leave much room for it.

730 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:10:56pm

re: #728 albusteve

wow...sounds like the perfect human being

No silly, that was Mohammad.

731 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:11:08pm

re: #703 haakondahl

I hold no brief for Buffy, but as much as I loathe a lot of bad TV, I have a special cask of Old Testament bile reserved for those programs which purport to be some sort of "reality", but which are just a more insidious form of Madison Avenue brain-engineering.

GUARDS!...ARREST THIS UNBELIEVER!
yer goin down mister

732 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:11:23pm

re: #717 iceweasel

If you like Hell's Kitchen, you should try to get the UK version of Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares. (UK one is far better than the US one). It's great!

YES! I liked him when he started out trying to rescue restaurants in the UK that were going under. I learned a great deal.
But this season the nastiness is to much for me.

733 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:11:43pm

re: #730 opnion

You forgot the pbuh. There'll be a fatwa in 5..4...3...

734 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:12:09pm

re: #723 tradewind

Oh crap...
Please tell me that what Fergie is wearing is not gonna hit the high schools as the latest date wear this fall...
Her stylist should be sacked.

Lol. She doesn't wear it to the supermarket. Those are stage outfits.

735 [deleted]  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:12:16pm
736 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:12:23pm

re: #725 SanFranciscoZionist

Wonder if Netflix has it. Kitchen Nightmares is less appealing to me, I think because these people are actually relying on this guy to save their bacon. Hell's Kitchen is pure entertainment.

Oh, now I'm not sure which one I saw. This guy basically took over a restaurant for a week or so, and had the owners fire their Dad, because he was dead weight.

737 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:12:54pm

re: #732 BlueRoses

YES! I liked him when he started out trying to rescue restaurants in the UK that were going under. I learned a great deal.

Did he recommend that they go to an all-Halal menu?

738 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:13:15pm

re: #439 rob.schmitt

Have fun with the raving lunatic morons over at the Deuce!

/don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, dipshit...

739 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:13:17pm

re: #716 opnion

Damn straight & then we'll demand to do a Top 10 list!

I'm not that clever. Maybe the other Lizaroids could give us a hand coming up with a top 10 for Dave whilst I am sprinkling feathers on him?

740 Dominic Yeso  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:13:23pm

re: #735 taxfreekiller

we are governed by tin foil

741 Catttt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:13:29pm

re: #728 albusteve

wow...sounds like the perfect human being

We have a theory that he is ferosh superperfect alien from outer space. Never mind that he grew up in San Diego. :D

742 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:13:29pm

re: #729 haakondahl

I saw a single episode. The host created half of the stress. It's better for ratings that way.

I like "The Deadliest Catch" and Cops. Haven't heard of any manipulative nonsense. The format doesn't leave much room for it.

"Cops" is lots of fun, and has been for, what, twenty years?

I liked "Deadliest Catch" for a couple of episodes, and then it just wore me out. They're still cold, wet, and in deadly peril? OK. I hope things turn out well for them, but I can't stand to watch any more.

"Dirty Jobs" is a great household favorite around here.

743 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:13:51pm

re: #731 albusteve

GUARDS!...ARREST THIS UNBELIEVER!
yer goin down mister

I remember when I was working at Numex, up in Rio Rancho, one of my hippie co-workers (Hello, Neal!) had a bumber sticker, "Kill Your TV!".
He was right.

744 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:14:19pm

re: #741 Cattt

We have a theory that he is ferosh superperfect alien from outer space. Never mind that he grew up in San Diego. :D

you know, somehow I believe you

745 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:14:33pm

re: #720 wahabicorridor

AAAGGGHH!
*whack*

Ahh come on that was good :)

746 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:15:08pm

re: #733 tradewind

You forgot the pbuh. There'll be a fatwa in 5..4...3...

Oversight, just an overersigt.
The Dear Prophet( Piss Be Upon Him)

747 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:15:10pm

re: #736 haakondahl

Oh, now I'm not sure which one I saw. This guy basically took over a restaurant for a week or so, and had the owners fire their Dad, because he was dead weight.

Yeah, that would be Kitchen Nightmares, where he fixes the restaurants. Hell's Kitchen is a bunch of people competing for a high-paying chef's job while Ramsay screams at them and has temper tantrums.

748 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:15:32pm

re: #718 haakondahl

So what do you think of Robert Spencer?

Who dat she says???

749 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:15:41pm

re: #735 taxfreekiller

Speaking of tin foil... someone told me this and I laughed but secretly tried it, and damned if it didn't work... if you take a large piece of extra heavy tin foil, bend it, and place it a few inches behind your home network's router it boosts the speed/range a lot. Acts like a sat dish and concentrates the signal. Sounds weird, but works.

750 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:16:15pm

re: #747 SanFranciscoZionist

Hell's Kitchen is a bunch of people competing for a high-paying chef's job while Ramsay screams at them and has temper tantrums.

I've never seen it. Sounds like American Idol, only with less singing and more shallots.

751 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:16:29pm

re: #725 SanFranciscoZionist

kitchen nightmares

752 albusteve  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:17:07pm

re: #743 haakondahl

I remember when I was working at Numex, up in Rio Rancho, one of my hippie co-workers (Hello, Neal!) had a bumber sticker, "Kill Your TV!".
He was right.

I use mine for football mostly...I've thought about renting some cool big ass wide screen thing for the season...I don't know if they do that tho

753 SteveC  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:17:29pm

re: #729 haakondahl

I like "The Deadliest Catch" and Cops. Haven't heard of any manipulative nonsense. The format doesn't leave much room for it.

Classic Cops moments: Two man squad car rolling up to assist on a drug stop. Officer begins to chant "Herrre doper, doper doper!"

"If you're pursuing someone in the 1200 block of Filmont, radio your position and the description of the suspect's car every few moments. There's an old man down there with a scanner, if he hears you coming he'll run outside and throw stuff at the suspect!"

754 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:17:36pm

re: #748 BlueRoses

Who dat she says???

That's another person who might feel that the BNP can restore the UK to its former not-getting-beheaded-by-terrorists glory.

So you've never heard of Robert Spencer?

755 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:17:41pm

re: #749 tradewind

Speaking of tin foil... someone told me this and I laughed but secretly tried it, and damned if it didn't work... if you take a large piece of extra heavy tin foil, bend it, and place it a few inches behind your home network's router it boosts the speed/range a lot. Acts like a sat dish and concentrates the signal. Sounds weird, but works.

I saw that here.

756 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:17:56pm

re: #750 Last Mohican

I've never seen it. Sounds like American Idol, only with less singing and more shallots.

Basically, I guess. I don't follow Idol. But similar elimination process, except that they all have to work in teams to serve food every night.Plus, the winning teams get taken on outings. Ramsay took them paintballing once. It seemed to cheer them up to get to shoot him.

757 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:18:03pm

re: #736 haakondahl

Oh, now I'm not sure which one I saw. This guy basically took over a restaurant for a week or so, and had the owners fire their Dad, because he was dead weight.

So? What's your problem with that? :))

758 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:18:11pm

Not sure if this has already been mentioned by someone
BUT

After the gov't entices many people to get rid of their "clunkers" for more fuel efficient environementally freindly cars
where do "poor" people turn to to get their needed modes of transportation? Where do they get that $500 or less "fixer upper" that they can afford to buy?
Will the gov't now have to urge banks and finance companies to make the same type of sub-prime loans they had for the housing market because "EVERYBODY" should be able to buy a house/ new car?

759 irongrampa  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:18:30pm

Apropos of nothing, really, but watching the flap over Sarah has given me a tremendous amount of respect for Todd Palin. Have to amire his restraint.

Been me, somebody'd have gotten deconstructed long ago.

760 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:18:39pm

re: #725 SanFranciscoZionist

Wonder if Netflix has it. Kitchen Nightmares is less appealing to me, I think because these people are actually relying on this guy to save their bacon. Hell's Kitchen is pure entertainment.

I think that's why I like the UK Kitchen Nightmares more than the US one. Ramsey's actually trying to help these people and it's less 'showy' than the US version. (he doesn't do bullshit like pay for them to have a new kitchen built)

I love the UK Kitchen Nightmares because there isn't as much of the 'fake' Ramsey persona in this-- none of teh screaming and manufactured drama.

here's a youtube channel that seems to have a lot of them, in case NetFlix doesn't have it:
[Link: www.youtube.com...]

761 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:18:41pm

re: #751 Killgore Trout

kitchen nightmares

Ahh, thanks.

762 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:19:05pm

re: #757 BlueRoses

So? What's your problem with that? :))

No problm with that--he was right. Just trying to figure out which show it was.

763 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:19:44pm

re: #737 Last Mohican

Did he recommend that they go to an all-Halal menu?

Oh lordy I am leaving that alone. Opion already has a fatwa issued on her/him. :))

764 [deleted]  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:19:47pm
765 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:20:01pm

re: #749 tradewind

Speaking of tin foil... someone told me this and I laughed but secretly tried it, and damned if it didn't work... if you take a large piece of extra heavy tin foil, bend it, and place it a few inches behind your home network's router it boosts the speed/range a lot. Acts like a sat dish and concentrates the signal. Sounds weird, but works.

Google "cantenna". The original has been largely de-bunked, but it'll open up a lot of links to stuff that actually does work.

766 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:20:29pm

re: #753 SteveC

Classic Cops moments: Two man squad car rolling up to assist on a drug stop. Officer begins to chant "Herrre doper, doper doper!"

"If you're pursuing someone in the 1200 block of Filmont, radio your position and the description of the suspect's car every few moments. There's an old man down there with a scanner, if he hears you coming he'll run outside and throw stuff at the suspect!"

Best Cops moment I ever saw:

Officer: Do you know how I knew you were smoking pot tonight before you told me?

Pothead: No.

Officer leans forward, slowly, so as not to scare the pothead, and takes a joint from behind his ear.

767 SteveC  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:20:49pm

re: #743 haakondahl

I remember when I was working at Numex, up in Rio Rancho, one of my hippie co-workers (Hello, Neal!) had a bumber sticker, "Kill Your TV!".
He was right.

I threw my TV out. I was flipping through the channels and stopped at the Food Network. Paula Dean told me she was going to rub Chili Powder on her butt and ruined my appetite, my sex life, and gave me insomnia, all at once.

TV had to go after that!

768 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:20:55pm

re: #739 BlueRoses

I'm not that clever. Maybe the other Lizaroids could give us a hand coming up with a top 10 for Dave whilst I am sprinkling feathers on him?

I am guessing that we could get some dandy suggestions from Lizards.

769 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:21:07pm

re: #759 irongrampa

Apropos of nothing, really, but watching the flap over Sarah has given me a tremendous amount of respect for Todd Palin. Have to amire his restraint.

Been me, somebody'd have gotten deconstructed long ago.

The Joy of Defenestration

770 Dominic Yeso  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:21:37pm

re: #758 sattv4u2

Don't worry. The program will become an entitlement and expand to cover the "most vulnerable" elements of our society.

771 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:22:24pm

re: #721 Cattt

I believe in flounder.

I believe in Otter, Boon, and Bluto...

/Animal House

772 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:22:26pm

re: #763 BlueRoses

Oh lordy I am leaving that alone. Opion already has a fatwa issued on her/him. :))

Don't you get automatically fatwa'd just being here? I WAS TOLD I'D GO ON THE LIST IF I POSTED HERE!

773 Render  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:22:52pm

[Link: www.saffm.hq.af.mil...]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

"In April 2006, the cost of the F-22 was assessed by the Government Accountability Office to be $361 million per aircraft. This cost reflects the F-22 total program cost, divided by the number of fighters the Air Force is programmed to buy; and which has so far invested $28 billion in the Raptor's research, development and testing. That money, referred to as a "sunk cost", is already spent and is separate from money used for future decision-making, including procuring a copy of the jet. The Unit Procurement Cost was estimated at $177.6 million in 2006 based on a production run of 181 airframes.[17] This unit cost will decrease if total production is higher. This cost includes $3.233 billion already spent on research and development by 2006.[18]"

"By the time all 183 fighters have been purchased, $34 billion will have been spent on actual procurement, resulting in a total program cost of $62 billion or about $339 million per aircraft. The incremental cost for one additional F-22 is around $138 million;[5] decreasing with larger volumes.[14]"

"On 31 July 2007, Lockheed Martin received a multiyear contract for 60 F-22s worth a total of US$7.3 billion.[15][19] The contract brought the number of F-22s on order to 183 and extended production through 2011.[15] Restarting production would greatly increase costs; building 75 more would cost an estimated $70 million extra per unit.[20]"

===

"The incremental cost for one additional F-22 is around $138 million; decreasing with larger volumes."

"Restarting production would greatly increase costs; building 75 more would cost an estimated $70 million extra per unit."

Aircraft have a hard limit on the amount of hours they can fly safely, much less fly in combat, which is considerably more stressful. By my ballpark estimate ALL of the single seat F-15's (A through D models about 407 aircraft) will have surpassed this limit by 2011 at the earliest.

[Link: www.acc.af.mil...]

[Link: www.airforce-magazine.com...]

So 183 aircraft are supposedly going to replace 407 aircraft. The Raptors are good, but they cannot be in multiple theaters at the same time.

...and Glenn Beck is a frothing at the mouth lunatic who is making way more money that he could ever deserve.

ALIEN
SHAPE
SHIFTER,
R

774 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:22:58pm

re: #755 Last Mohican

Wow, I didn't get that fancy... just ripped and bent. Maybe I will try it, thanks.

775 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:23:09pm

re: #767 SteveC

I threw my TV out. I was flipping through the channels and stopped at the Food Network. Paula Dean told me she was going to rub Chili Powder on her butt and ruined my appetite, my sex life, and gave me insomnia, all at once.

TV had to go after that!

Somehow you avoided indigestion from that recipe.

776 debutaunt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:23:30pm

***Lizard thought waves - everybody, think of a new thread***

777 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:23:36pm

re: #770 Dominic Yeso

Don't worry. The program will become an entitlement and expand to cover the "most vulnerable" elements of our society.

And then when the poor can't pay on the note for their new $20,000 vehicle,,the finance comapnies/ banks (and taxpayers) will once again take it on the chin

778 debutaunt  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:24:32pm

re: #776 debutaunt

***Lizard thought waves - everybody, think of a new thread***

Group hug!

779 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:24:38pm

re: #754 haakondahl

That's another person who might feel that the BNP can restore the UK to its former not-getting-beheaded-by-terrorists glory.

So you've never heard of Robert Spencer?

Vaguely remember hearing about him but not enough for me to pay attention.

780 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:25:02pm

re: #777 sattv4u2

I'm surprised Barney Frank & Co isn't out there right now strong-arming dealers into making zero interest auto loans to the unemployed...

781 Miss Trixie  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:25:35pm

re: #766 SanFranciscoZionist

Best Cops moment I ever saw:

Officer: Do you know how I knew you were smoking pot tonight before you told me?

Pothead: No.

Officer leans forward, slowly, so as not to scare the pothead, and takes a joint from behind his ear.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

782 SteveC  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:25:47pm

re: #772 SanFranciscoZionist

Don't you get automatically fatwa'd just being here? I WAS TOLD I'D GO ON THE LIST IF I POSTED HERE!

Like my Johnson, the list is long and distinguished.

/I feel the need for speed!

783 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:26:09pm

re: #760 iceweasel

I think that's why I like the UK Kitchen Nightmares more than the US one. Ramsey's actually trying to help these people and it's less 'showy' than the US version. (he doesn't do bullshit like pay for them to have a new kitchen built)

I love the UK Kitchen Nightmares because there isn't as much of the 'fake' Ramsey persona in this-- none of teh screaming and manufactured drama.

here's a youtube channel that seems to have a lot of them, in case NetFlix doesn't have it:
[Link: www.youtube.com...]

You are right Ice it is a good show.

784 Dominic Yeso  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:28:21pm

re: #777 sattv4u2

Exactly. This is how government works from now on or at least until the Chinese stop taking our IOUs.

785 ShanghaiEd  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:28:36pm

re: #592 iceweasel

So what? Lots of ceremonies also include the promise for a wife to obey her husband.
Marriages are what the people involved in them make of them together.

Hey, Ice! Long time, no see.

I long ago lost count of my marriage ceremonies, but I can assure you none of them had the word "obey."

Even in the fledgling days of feminism, in the darkest heart of the Bible Belt, that was the first part of the contract to go.

786 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:31:13pm

re: #780 tradewind

I'm surprised Barney Frank & Co isn't out there right now strong-arming dealers into making zero interest auto loans to the unemployed HOMELESS...

Kill 2 birds with one loan
Transportation AND a place to live!


RV's for Street People!
BAD SATT ,, BAD BAD BAD

//

787 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:31:15pm

re: #763 BlueRoses

Oh lordy I am leaving that alone. Opion already has a fatwa issued on her/him. :))


No problem, I"ll just get up on my roof tonight & shriek 'Allah Akbar" for about a half hour.
Next thing you know alll will be forgiven & I'll be hangin at the Mosque kickin it with the Ummah homies.

788 BlueRoses  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:31:23pm

This cat is going to go hit the pool. Bye all :))

789 Dominic Yeso  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:32:02pm

re: #780 tradewind

Shushhh. He might be picking up your words via his tin foil hat.

790 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:32:09pm

Glad nothing happened, but this is just the kind of thing that terror groups do when they are probing a system to analyze the response from the authorities...
[Link: wcbstv.com...]

791 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:32:39pm

BBL

792 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:33:22pm

re: #419 Gus 802

I know. Like I was telling the BDS sufferers from days gone by, the Feds don't even have that kind of manpower.

The crux of the matter is that the average tin-foiler does not know what kind of manpower the government has or, more importantly, what kind of resources would be required for an illegal spying operation aimed at ordinary citizens.

In my considerable experience, paranoid conspiracy believers are relatively intelligent but abysmally uninformed, with huge gaps in their knowledge of how the world in general operates or of the magnitude of various factors involved in public affairs.
I know one nut, a college graduate no less, who is convinced that the per capita national wealth of the United States is on the order of 20 million dollars (over 100 times the actual figure). Amazingly, I have heard more than one person repeat this, indicating a common source.

In the past, I've referred several times here at LGF to the young Moon Hoax believer who turned out not to know that there is more than one national military force in the world. (I had cited hostile foreign monitoring as one of the things that made a hoax impossible.) This person was a second-year medical student btw.

As for things like creationism, it is entirely possible that some reasonably intelligent but narrowly educated person would not understand just what would be required for the entire scientific community to support the same bogus claim for 150+ years. Such a person might be proficient in their degree field; business or human services, for example; but have no idea of the scope of scientific research or even of the history and diversity of the modern world itself.

This kind of ignorance is by no means rare. Last year, a Dittmar study asked people to estimate what percentage of the govenment's budget went to each department or activity. The average estimate was that NASA received 24% of the budget, about 80 times the actual figure.

These people are just not capable of understanding counter-arguments in many cases. They believe "the government" can do almost anything, as though it were a single mind and will, but have no idea how large and intricate the government really is or how many legal, media, partisan, and other vested interests can serve as checks on its power.
The government can get away with a lot but there is a lot they can't get away with, hence the conspiracy claim that all the would-be watchdogs and vested interests are "in on it too."

793 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:33:45pm

re: #787 opnion

Well, part of you, anyway...
/sarc/

794 opnion  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:36:59pm

re: #793 tradewind

Well, part of you, anyway...
/sarc/


Ya think that I need another srategery?

795 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:39:52pm

re: #794 opnion

...If you don't want to be left hanging in a mosque some where...
/hey, I added a sarc/

796 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:42:43pm

re: #321 Charles

Lots of people who never post comments are showing up to down-ding my Anthony Watts post.

Must be a link somewhere. Reminds me of creationist behavior.

There's things about Sinclair's' article on Watts that don't stand up well under logical scrutiny. (Snarking about Bush and Iraqi WMD's, for instance). But the article makes some good points as well. It's not much of a disproof of AGW that the weather service has stations that don't meet its own standards and so may be giving wrong temperature trends, if the ones that do meet those standards give the same trend!

It's a shame that things have got to the point that nobody can say anything about shaky logic without being called on the carpet for being on the wrong side.

We will never be able to get to the bottom of anything if reasoning in public becomes impossible. Even if you're right, you have a duty to the public and to the whole idea of democracy to give good, honest reasons for your position. You have a duty to abstain from making cheap points that don't stand up under close scrutiny. You have a duty to abstain from downdinging posts that make legitimate observations, even if, as a result, the post ends up scoring points for what you think is the wrong side. You have a duty, in other words, to steer clear of the tactics used by Al Gore to promote AGW, the tactics used by Watts to promote his perspective on AGW, and so forth.

If you're wrong but you think you're right, and if your cheap shots carry the day, that hurts us all and in the end it discredits democracy. And surely you don't imagine that you cannot possibly be wrong, just because you're sure you're right?

797 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:48:01pm

re: #785 ShanghaiEd

Hey, Ice! Long time, no see.

I long ago lost count of my marriage ceremonies, but I can assure you none of them had the word "obey."

Even in the fledgling days of feminism, in the darkest heart of the Bible Belt, that was the first part of the contract to go.

Hey Ed! Good to see you! We must have been working opposing LGF shifts. :)

I can assure you that "obey" is still included in at least the Catholic ceremonies unless you specifically ask that it not be. (perhaps this differs from parish to parish)

Anyway I'm glad you mentioned this. I was just thinking that it's wrong to equate "loving, honouring, and cherishing" with mere physical monogamy. Lots of people can be incredibly horrible spouses and violate all of that, even if they never cheat.
Similarly, negotiating an open marriage or relationship doesn't automatically mean you don't love honour and respect your partner.

798 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:52:23pm

Breaking...O'Reilly/Olbermann ordered to time out corner...
Now we can all breathe a sigh of relief! I was soo worried...
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

799 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 1:59:57pm

re: #798 tradewind

Breaking...O'Reilly/Olbermann ordered to time out corner...
Now we can all breathe a sigh of relief! I was soo worried...
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Actually, this isn't good.

Most notably, the deal wasn't engineered because of a perception that it was hurting either Olbermann or O'Reilly's show, or even that it was hurting MSNBC. To the contrary, as Olbermann himself has acknowledged, his battles with O'Reilly have substantially boosted his ratings. The agreement of the corporate CEOs to cease criticizing each other was motivated by the belief that such criticism was hurting the unrelated corporate interests of GE and News Corp:


The reconciliation -- not acknowledged by the parties until now -- showcased how a personal and commercial battle between two men could create real consequences for their parent corporations. A G.E. shareholders' meeting, for instance, was overrun by critics of MSNBC (and one of Mr. O’Reilly's producers) last April. . . .

In late 2007, Mr. O’Reilly had a young producer, Jesse Watters, ambush Mr. Immelt and ask about G.E.'s business in Iran, which is legal, and which includes sales of energy and medical technology. G.E. says it no longer does business in Iran.

Mr. O’Reilly continued to pour pressure on its corporate leaders, even saying on one program last year that "If my child were killed in Iraq, I would blame the likes of Jeffrey Immelt." The resulting e-mail to G.E. from Mr. O’Reilly's viewers was scathing. . .

Over time, G.E. and the News Corporation concluded that the fighting "wasn’t good for either parent," said an NBC employee with direct knowledge of the situation. But the session hosted by Mr. Rose provided an opportunity for a reconciliation, sealed with a handshake between Mr. Immelt and Mr. Murdoch.



So here we have yet another example -- perhaps the most glaring yet -- of the corporations that own our largest media outlets controlling and censoring the content of their news organizations based on the unrelated interests of the parent corporation

[Link: www.salon.com...]

800 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 2:02:50pm

re: #799 iceweasel

Pigs are flying. I agree with you completely. The soo worried thing was sarc.

801 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 2:12:07pm

re: #799 iceweasel

Actually, this isn't good.

Agreed, and for a number of reasons. Even without going into the unrelated parent company thing, the fact is that these media companies want the benefits of irresponsible, flying-spittle "journalism" without the burdensome responsibilities.
They want to have our cake and eat it too.

802 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 2:14:04pm

This sounds like a "gentlemen's agreement", where the gentlemen will continue to savage those without the resources to respond.

Headline: Two media giants irresponsibly collude to not criticize each others' irresponsible practices.

803 The Left  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 2:17:18pm

re: #802 haakondahl


Headline: Two media giants irresponsibly collude to not criticize each others' irresponsible practices.

Yup. From my earlier link:

So now GE is using its control of NBC and MSNBC to ensure that there is no more reporting by Fox of its business activities in Iran or other embarrassing corporate activities, while News Corp. is ensuring that the lies spewed regularly by its top-rated commodity on Fox News are no longer reported by MSNBC.

Sounds about right. It's all fun and games til someone's corporate overlord gets hurt.

804 [deleted]  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 2:21:52pm
805 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 2:23:09pm

(PIMF, ' look' ).

806 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 2:23:45pm

re: #804 tradewind

Hey Charles... looks whose site you get when you google this...no wonder...

And she says it with a straight face/headline.

I wouldn't link Pam here. And that straight face/headline is a lobotomy scar.

807 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 2:24:20pm

I trundled the O&O story over to the next thread.

808 tradewind  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 2:27:20pm

re: #806 haakondahl

Thanks, I didn't know/think, won't repeat.

809 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 2:31:58pm

re: #808 tradewind

Thanks, I didn't know/think, won't repeat.

Just my opinion.

810 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 3:37:57pm

A little fact that I think some either tend to overlook, ignore, or just plain don't know:

Glenn Beck is not a conservative. Glenn Beck is not a republican. By the admission of his own words, Glenn Beck is a libertarian.

And although I sometimes agree with some libertarian points, many of them seem to spend way too much time hiking the tin-foil trail.

811 gatorbait  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 3:52:13pm

re: #428 Charles

He may be a broken clock, but he's not right in any sense on this issue. The agreement is ONLY FOR DEALERS.

Lots of steam here.

Let's say Beck is only one tenth correct.

Do I want Sam pawing through my car dealer's computer?

812 formercorpsman  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 3:54:36pm

I think it was racer x who made the point earlier, the program itself has enough problems without these other conspiracies attached to it.

To know the national debt has passed 10 TRILLION dollars, and will essentially make the future generations (our kids) subject to financial indentured servitude is the real scandal here.

What the hell ever happened to paying your own way?

1) Income Taxes
2) Business Taxes
3) Payroll Taxes
4) Capital Gains Taxes
5) Inheritance Taxes
6) Sales Taxes
7) Property Taxes
8) Excise Taxes
9) Gift Taxes
10) Retirement Taxes
11) Tariffs
12) Tolls

This is a drop in the bucket. Take a look at your cell phone, regular phone, cable television, hotel, & flight receipts as well.

Bad legislation is just bad legislation, and bad policy is just bad policy.

813 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 4:03:46pm

It helps having a brother who works as company accountant for a local major car dealer, what Beck is hyperventilating over is so much bovine excrement. I asked my brother earlier this morning how the "Cash for Clunkers" deal is working out, and he said so much of what is getting reported by the media is pure fantasy.

re: #811 gatorbait

Lots of steam here.

Let's say Beck is only one tenth correct.

Do I want Sam pawing through my car dealer's computer?

Beck isn't even in the same dimension as delusion regarding this, reality is about a dozen that way; Mr. Beck is espousing so much BS conspiracy.

814 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 7:13:17pm

re: #326 rob.schmitt

Charles,
You have an extremely short attention span.
I realized that since Beck believes in Cod, you feel that you must destroy him. But, given that he does four (4) HOURS of broadcast per day, not all of his topics and guests are fully 'vetted.' That being said, sometimes when he "smells a rat", he may inflate the potential to the scale of a bubonic plague, but there usually IS a rat.
And, Charles, the 'fact' that this EULA is similar to others in private commerce actually begs the question.
I have not read the EULA in question, but I think that a good analogy would be to an apartment lease which always contains a clause granting the land-lord the right of 'entry and inspection.' By your reasoning, there would be no cause for alarm if the clause also included the right of the Police to enter at any time, without a warrant. If Glenn Beck were to get upset about such a lease, would you be so sanguine about his being "a raving freakazoid nut sandwich ?"


Is that you, Barak?

Seriously, the bolded phrase above is purt-near identical to what FCBBHO said on July 23 about the incident between Crowley and Gates: he admitted he didn't have the facts but that didn't stop him from rushing to judgment.

Shooting from the hip didn't serve him well nor, it seems, did it you.

815 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 8:12:12pm

At some point, the Republican party needs to make a big deal about distancing itself from this kind of nonsense, unless they prefer to be the minority party forever. They also need to quit whining about being victims of the media.

OR NOT. Go ahead and bitch about journalists forever. That's sure to get you votes.

816 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 8:15:15pm

re: #810 Slumbering Behemoth

Glenn Glenn Beck is a libertarian lunatic.

Fixed. You're welcome.

817 idioma  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 8:38:03pm

Kimberley Guilfoyle: Computer Expert.

Uh yeah.

Why do news networks gravitate toward this phenomenon of "hot chicks say stuff hour". I'm sorry, but not only does she not know what she is talking about, it's obvious that her "contribution" to the news has very little to do with her intelligence.

Get me an overweight 30+ year old virgin in a vintage Sci-Fi t-shirt to tell me about computer security risks, then I might lower my skepticism. When Kimberley Guilfoyle talks all I see is this:

Youtube Video
818 [deleted]  Sat, Aug 1, 2009 8:53:43pm
819 jonmayer  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 9:57:16am

Beck lost all credibility with my in 2006 when a Muslim was elected to Congress from Michigan. The representative appeared on Beck's show (then on CNN), and Beck asked him the following heinous question: "How do we know, sir, that you are not part of the enemy." Now he calls Obama a racist? He been a founding member of the US's BNP if we had a multiparty system here.

820 Tricky Dick  Mon, Aug 3, 2009 10:37:51am

Screw Glenn Beck! What we really need to look at and understand is that the "Cash for Clunkers" program is nothing more than a welfare check for the UAW and those who make enough money to afford a new car. It will make good used car much more expensive for those of us who can't afford new ones by reducing their supply. It'll put a lot of used car dealers and their employees out of work as well as those who either own or work at salvage yards. The salvage yard losses will then cuase the price of used auto part for you car to increase. It's a lose-lose situation for the majority of the population of this country and should be halted immediately. It does little or nothing to help the environment and I suspect it'll be a Fanny/Freddie Mac thing where they loan money to people who can't pay it back when it's all over and done leaving the working class, their children and grand children in this country to pick up the tab.

821 saxking20  Mon, Aug 3, 2009 2:13:36pm

Looks like Glen Beck has the last laugh on the EULA on the C4C website. Why would ANYONE go on a site that says the gov OWNS your computer???

The WH is in the process of REWRITING the EULA!

Glen Beck was right in pointing out this miserable piece of government prose...

822 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 3, 2009 6:11:48pm

re: #821 saxking20

Looks like Glen Beck has the last laugh on the EULA on the C4C website. Why would ANYONE go on a site that says the gov OWNS your computer???

The WH is in the process of REWRITING the EULA!

Glen Beck was right in pointing out this miserable piece of government prose...

Glenn Beck was stupid, not right. He made a big deal about it, and encouraged a lot of people to make a big deal about it, and the government lawyers removed the language. Stupidity all around.


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