Nirther Craziness Gets Worse

Weird • Views: 13,680

Today we get a ludicrous effort by head Nirther Orly Taitz to foist off an obviously fake “Kenyan birth certificate” with Barack Obama’s name on it: Is this really it? (re: possible Obama’s Kenyan B.C. - Attny Taitz).

These people are getting desperate. World Net Daily is also salivating over this.

(By the way, if you click the link to Orly Taitz’s blog at Free Republic, you’ll see a phishing warning from your browser if you’re using Safari or Firefox. That means her site has been confirmed to host malware.)

This latest insanity comes as GOP Rep. Eric Cantor tries to blame Nirtherism on the liberal media and bloggers. Good luck with that. The GOP “base” is doing a fine job whipping themselves up into a frenzy over this lunacy; there are almost 2,000 comments for this story at Free Republic, and the vast majority are screaming about “smoking guns.”

Jump to bottom

831 comments
1 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:02:41am

Apparently stupid is contagious.

2 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:02:44am

Thanks, I was just trying to figure out how to post this story, WND has it too.

3 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:03:54am

Republicans. Either going Galt, or going nuts.

Oh, wait - same thing.

4 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:05:14am

A familiar name at WND, what a coincidence. Just yesterday I received an email from the 'deputy registrar of Coast Province, Joshua Simon Couya' about a significant financial matter.

5 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:06:08am

re: #3 Cato the Elder

Going...going...gone.

6 marwan's daughter  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:06:24am

Maybe you should make a throbbing nirth certifikit gif file Charles. Just for the lulz.

7 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:06:32am

Unfortunately, it's probably not so much the GOP "base" as it is the GOP base.

8 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:08:22am

How long before we're treated to a Throbbing Birth Certificate GIF?

9 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:08:54am

The nirthers are getting far too much attention from the msm, and not in a good way. They are giving the msm the brush to tar all republicans as lunatics.

10 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:08:55am

re: #3 Cato the Elder

Republicans. Either going Galt, or going nuts.

Oh, wait - same thing.

Funny thing. I can think of 3 nirthers I know personally (OK, I live in NYC), all 3 are white, single, liberal women over 40 that supported Hillary. This may be more than a Republican thing.

11 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:10:52am

Looking for easy answers.
"He's ineligible." vs. "I'll be taken care of."

12 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:10:59am
Poor birfoons: the name was changed from "Dominion of Kenya" to "Republic of Kenya" 12 December 1964.


oops

13 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:11:03am

OT

I visited the wake of former President Corazon Aquino today.

A quick history reminder, Corazon Aquino was the wife of Ninoy Aquino, a pro-democracy legislator assassinated on his return from exile (whether it was the crazed commie gunman or ordered by Ferdinand Marcos is still debatable). She went on to lead the non-violent People Power movement that toppled Marcos' regime from power.

14 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:11:30am
15 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:11:33am

One condition of US citizenship:

•Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years.

Obama could have been born on Mars and still qualify.

16 BignJames  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:11:48am

Guns ain't what they're smoking.

17 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:12:10am

re: #15 solomonpanting

One condition of US citizenship:

Obama could have been born on Mars and still qualify.

Does that make Hillary from Venus?

/obscure 90s book reference

18 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:12:16am

I want to see the Martian certifikit.

19 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:12:21am

re: #11 jaunte

Looking for easy answers.
"He's ineligible." vs. "I'll be taken care of."

Disqualification is easier than convincing a person of the value of self-reliance.

20 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:13:13am

Will the first nirther show up before 100 comments?

21 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:13:25am

re: #3 Cato the Elder

Republicans. Either going Galt, or going nuts.

Oh, wait - same thing.

Let's just call it Going Ron Paul and spare the needless distinctions. q;

22 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:14:12am

Ok, I was looking at a picture of the supposed Kenyan birth certificate. Let's make believe it's real. Well, its a Certified Copy just like the HI. one.

So, what's the difference?

23 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:14:16am

Smoking guns or smoking buns?
I think the smoke is coming out of their nether regions.

24 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:14:18am

re: #20 Killgore Trout

Does the "hey I'm just asking a question" move qualify?
(If so, yes)

25 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:15:09am

re: #15 solomonpanting

One condition of US citizenship:

Obama could have been born on Mars and still qualify.

Correct. The requirement that the candidate be "native-born" refers to being born of (at least one) native parent; it is NOT a requirement that the birth physically took place on American soil.

Not that the argument will even get that far; the nirthers are hung up on promoting outright frauds now.

26 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:15:12am

re: #20 Killgore Trout

Will the first nirther show up before 100 comments?

I'll turn up my "Big BUT" filter to maximum.

27 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:15:12am

re: #20 Killgore Trout

Will the first nirther show up before 100 comments?

/I like the anti-christ angle better ;)

28 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:15:43am

re: #25 SixDegrees

Well, there goes my "McCain is really Panamanian" argument.

/// q;

29 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:16:07am

re: #18 jaunte

I want to see the Martian certifikit.

Could be true.
He's indeed trying to create a Strange Land.

30 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:16:19am

Wait, this document looks as real as this e-mail letter I received yesterday :

FROM THE DESK:
CHIEF ACCOUNTING OFFICER

ATTENTION:PRESIDENT,

I AM DR. ALBERT FREDTHE CHIEF ACCOUNTING OFFICER OF A BANK. THE FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF OUR BANK IS OVER US$130,000,000.00 (ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY THOUSAND UNITED STATES DOLLARS) AND THE CURRENT ASSETS OF OUR BANK IS RELATIVELY LIQUID RESOURCES. THIS CATEGORIES INCLUDES CASH, INVESTMENTS IN MARKETABLE SECURITIES, RECEIVABLE, INVENTORIES AND PREPAID EXPENSES. IN RECENT YEARS THE ANNAUL REVENUE OF OUR BANK HAS EXCEEDED TO US$200,000,000.00 (TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND UNITED STATES DOLLARS) AND MY RESPONSIBITY IS FOR ME TO MAINTAIN ADEQUATE MONETARY INTERNAL CONTROL, CONTROLLING THE BANK CASH POSITION, BUDGETTING AND FOR THE PREPARATION OF ACCOUNTING RECORDS AND FINANCIAL STATEMENT.

THE NUMBER OF CAPITAL SHARES WHICH HAS BEEN ISSUED FOR THE YEAR 2002 IS UNDER MY JURISDICTION IS US$80,000,000.00 AND THE OUTSTANDING SHARE THAT IS PRESENTLY UNDER MY CONTROL AND SUPERVISION IS US$15,000,000.00 ( FIFTEEN MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS). WE ARE IN THE LAST QUARTER OF THE YEAR 2002 AND I NEED A RELIABLE FOREIGN PARTNER THAT WILL ASSIST ME TO TRANSFER THE 15M FUND INTO HIS BANK ACCOUNT. I HAVE MANAGERIAL AUTHORITY TO TRANSFER THIS FUND INTO YOUR BANK ACCOUNT BY ELECTRONIC WIRE TRANSFER. I NEED THE FOLLOWING BANKING INFORMATION:

1. THE NAME OF YOUR BANK
2. THE BANK ADDRESS
3. THE BANK ACCOUNT
4. THE BANK ROUTING/SWIFT CODE
5. THE BANK BENEFICIARY
6. YOUR COMPANY NAME
7. YOUR PRIVATE TELEPHONE,FAX AND MOBILE NUMBER FOR EASY COMMUNICATION.

WITH THE ABOVE INFORMATION, I WILL EFFECT THE PAYMENT OF US$45,000,000:00 DOLLARS INTO YOUR NOMINATED BANK ACCOUNT AND THIS WILL ONLY TAKE US 24 BANKING WORKING HOURS TO EXECUTIVE THIS FINANCIAL BUSINESS TRANSACTION THAT WILL BENEFIT BOTH PARTIES. WE HAVE AGREED TO SHARE THE FUND AS FOLLOW: 30% WILL BE GIVING TO YOU HAS THE OWNER OF THE ACCOUNT WHERE THE FUND WILL BE TRANSFER AND 60% WILL BE FOR ME AND 10% FOR VALUE ADDED TAX THAT WILL BE REQUIRED BY YOUR BANK OFFICIAL.

THE BANK WILL SEND YOU VALID CONCRETE AUTHORIZATION DOCUMENT AND TELEX CONFIRMATION WILL BE SEND TO YOUR BANK AND FOR YOU TO VARIFY FROM YOUR BANK AS SOON AS THE FUND HIT YOUR BANK ACCOUNT.

NOTE: Please kindly state your early response immediately on this E mail:fred@euroseek.com for more details on the modalities involves and this business is for your eye only and it is top secret you have to keep strictly confidential.

I WILL BE EXPRECTING YOUR URGENT COMPLIANCE AND FEED BACK.

YOURS TRULY,

DR. ALBERT FRED
E MAIL: (deleted by Shug per LGF TOS )

31 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:16:48am

re: #27 brookly red

/I like the anti-christ angle better ;)

You mean the anti-Christ comments here?

Is it SpaceJesus?

32 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:16:51am

re: #26 Sharmuta

I'll turn up my "Big BUT" filter to maximum.

What cheek!

33 Lynn B.  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:17:26am

Yes, Cantor's critics in the comments over at that site sure nail it. Especially this one.

Eric Cantor is a card carrying member of the Jewish Lobby dedicated to bend America’s policy for the benefit of Israel. Cantor’s constituency should recognize this parasite agent of Israel masquerades as a conservative to get their votes, but like many jewish senators and congressmen (e.g., Howard Berman, Joe Lieberman, Elliott Engel, Diane Feinstein) has only one main mission- to help advance Israel’s interests. This is a parasite supported by AIPAC who fools the working class whites in Virginia and laughs all the way to the bank.

I confess I went looking for that comment because after reading the post and the first dozen responses there was no doubt I'd find it.

And just curious. Is there any corroboration of Cantor's position on this other than one blogger's report that he got a private email from Cantor's spokesman to that effect?

34 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:17:47am

re: #26 Sharmuta

I'll turn up my "Big BUT" filter to maximum.

That reminds me of this book I wanted to recommend to you:
[Link: astore.amazon.com...]

35 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:17:48am

re: #10 brookly red

Funny thing. I can think of 3 nirthers I know personally (OK, I live in NYC), all 3 are white, single, liberal women over 40 that supported Hillary. This may be more than a Republican thing.

I believe Larry Johnson was one of the early nirther evangelists and was rather effective at spreading the word. Not someone I would call a conservative.

36 Steffan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:17:54am

Y'all have seen these pictures, right?

The ones that actually show the raised seal and certification (which happens to be on the other side of the form)?

What the hell are these people smoking??

37 horatiolust  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:17:57am

Suborned in the U.S.A.
The birth-certificate controversy is about Obama’s honesty, not where he was born.

By Andrew C. McCarthy

"...While it is all well and good to belittle the birth-certificate controversy, without it we’d know only what the media and Obama himself would tell us about his multiple citizenships, which is nothing. As noted above, we now know Obama, by operation of British and Kenyan law, was a citizen of Kenya (a status that lapsed in 1982, when he turned 21). That’s something voters would find relevant, especially when Obama’s shocking 2006 conduct in Kenya is considered. But we don’t know about his Kenyan citizenship because the media thought it was newsworthy. We know it only because of the birth-certificate controversy: Pressed to debunk the allegation that Obama was born in Kenya, his embarrassed supporters felt compelled to clarify his Kenyan citizenship."

and

"...But we should know. The point has little to do with whether Obama was born in Hawaii. I’m quite confident that he was. The issue is: What is the true personal history of the man who has been sold to us based on nothing but his personal history? On that issue, Obama has demonstrated himself to be an unreliable source and, sadly, we can’t trust the media to get to the bottom of it. What’s wrong with saying, to a president who promised unprecedented “transparency”: Give us all the raw data and we’ll figure it out for ourselves?"

38 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:18:10am

re: #26 Sharmuta

I'll turn up my "Big BUT" filter to maximum.

I like it when that happens, and I cannot lie.

39 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:18:12am

re: #10 brookly red

Funny thing. I can think of 3 nirthers I know personally (OK, I live in NYC), all 3 are white, single, liberal women over 40 that supported Hillary. This may be more than a Republican thing.

You might want to tell them that if FCBBHO were not born in the U.S.A., the HRC folks would've established it without a doubt last summer.

40 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:18:17am

re: #30 Shug

Shug, you are too late. I already sent them my info. Sorry bro.
/

41 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:18:38am

re: #31 SixDegrees

You mean the anti-Christ comments here?

Is it SpaceJesus?

I have not seen any here, but I have not been around much lately...

42 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:18:48am

It only took 37 comments for the first Nirther to show up.

43 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:19:17am

Quotes:

"Looks to be more real than what Zero put online." [Certificate attested by the entire State of Hawai'i fails to trump picture with no known provenance on internet. Yeah, that works.]

"Obots are at work. My Mozilla browser said the site has been reported infected, but I ignored the warning." [Now you're infected with Ocooties, moron.]

"MOTION for Issuance of Letters Rogatory for authenticity of Kenyan birth certificate filed by Plaintiff Alan Keyes PhD." [Just so you take me seriously, let me remind you that I've got a PhD in something or other.]

And the ever-popular

"Imagine: No Liberals" smiley face. [But, Cletus, if there are no more liberals, who we gonna hate then? Wha? Why, then we'll purge the GOP of neegros, I guess.]

44 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:19:32am

re: #37 horatiolust

Suborned in the U.S.A.
The birth-certificate controversy is about Obama’s honesty, not where he was born...

Barry said he was born in HI., nobody has proven otherwise, how much more honest do you need?

45 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:20:20am

This one is also an apologist for fascists and the John Birch Society:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

46 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:20:37am

re: #37 horatiolust

BUT!

47 Erik The Red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:20:46am

re: #42 Charles

It only took 37 comments for the first Nirther to show up.

I can't believe they are still coming out of the woodwork.

48 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:20:50am

re: #10 brookly red

Funny thing. I can think of 3 nirthers I know personally (OK, I live in NYC), all 3 are white, single, liberal women over 40 that supported Hillary. This may be more than a Republican thing.

re: #14 MikeySDCA

This is a bipartisan, nondenominational nut thing.

Nice try. Ain't gonna fly.

49 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:21:45am

re: #37 horatiolust

The birth-certificate controversy is about Obama’s honesty, not where he was born.

That's an excellent underlying point, but the fact is, the nirthers are obsessing over the "document", and hence his citizenship.

/they're as shallow as a film of dried mouse pee

50 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:21:53am

re: #39 MandyManners

You might want to tell them that if FCBBHO were not born in the U.S.A., the HRC folks would've established it without a doubt last summer.

No, they would just say it was part of the conspiracy, & besides I work for one of them.

51 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:21:54am

re: #37 horatiolust

Andy's a cutie!

52 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:22:01am

re: #48 Cato the Elder

Nice try. Ain't gonna fly.

You don't think there are loonys on both sides?

53 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:22:02am

Nirther timewasting; cui bono?

54 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:22:24am

re: #50 brookly red

No, they would just say it was part of the conspiracy, & besides I work for one of them.

HRC is part of the conspiracy?

55 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:22:41am

re: #53 jaunte

Nirther timewasting; cui bono?

FCBBHO.

56 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:22:41am

re: #42 Charles

It only took 37 comments for the first Nirther to show up.

Impressive for being so early on a slow Sunday morning.

57 KingKenrod  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:22:43am

McCarthy's article isn't about birtherism, it's about the incredible gaps we have in Obama's history and Obama's tendency to change his past for political advantage. It's an interesting read.

58 davinvalkri  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:22:57am

re: #9 Sharmuta

The nirthers are getting far too much attention from the msm, and not in a good way. They are giving the msm the brush to tar all republicans as lunatics.

Maybe so, but it'd help if people on our side of the aisle wouldn't go completely bonkers just because 0bama wone the election. It's been 6 months, for Christ's sake! Give it a rest and stop acting like a John Birch Society member!

59 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:22:58am

re: #56 Killgore Trout

Impressive for being so early on a slow Sunday morning.

They wear on-call pagers

60 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:23:21am

re: #7 laZardo

Unfortunately, it's probably not so much the GOP "base" as it is the GOP base.

The GOP free-base community. Smoking guns since November 4, 2008.

61 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:23:30am

re: #59 Shug

They wear on-call pagers

Strap - ons.

62 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:23:41am

Let's assume for a moment that Republican strategists see all of this as "just desserts".

Let's assume that the idea is simple - the internut, which it's ability to propagate vast quantities in disinformation - to make seemingly "researched information" easy to manufacture and distribute - was used to defame, discredit and bring down the Bush White House and the Republican Party. So why not turn the same on the Democrats?

From an "all is fair in love and war" standpoint, this certainly can be justified. It isn't like the left took any care in making assertions like "George Bush's opposition to Kyoto caused Hurricane Katrina" or "The Bush White House was in the service of their corrupt paymasters at Halliburton and McDonald's".

Problem is - this is our country that we are debasing - not the individuals with whom we disagree.

The dis-information wars that the country has subjected itself to over the last 5 years is taking a progressively larger and larger toll. It has lead to very bad policy making regarding the economy (we have thrown out the lessons that Republican Reagan and Democrat Clinton had both adopted regarding the economy - it now seems we will relive the French economy of the 80s and 90s, which performed dismally). We are confronted with military problems in Afghanistan that have obvious solutions that aren't likely to be implemented because they can't be justified politically (which explains the vapor-lock silence the conundrum has generated on the left).

Now Republicans I know are telling me that "we will set things right when we get the House back" but that can't be true. The price that Obama will soon pay in having to choose bad options on Afghanistan demonstrates the point - when you whip the base up on flimsy rhetoric, you can't just put that toothpaste back in the tube (to use an overused metaphor).

The policy cul-de-sacs that the Republicans will have to drive right into will include "creation science", hearings on Obama's birthplace, hearings on Obama's religion, and many others.

Meanwhile, our economy is becoming less productive - capital is not flowing to areas where innovation and productivity will create the needed surpluses to pay for all of the new entitlements we have. Instead, the opposite is happening and we will face the same entitlements avalanche that Europe is about to experience.

If we are to be a rational democracy, someone has to get into the business of leadership on issues rather that setting "prairie fires"

63 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:23:48am

re: #37 horatiolust

Suborned in the U.S.A.
The birth-certificate controversy is about Obama’s honesty, not where he was born.

By Andrew C. McCarthy

"...While it is all well and good to belittle the birth-certificate controversy, without it we’d know only what the media and Obama himself would tell us about his multiple citizenships, which is nothing. As noted above, we now know Obama, by operation of British and Kenyan law, was a citizen of Kenya (a status that lapsed in 1982, when he turned 21). That’s something voters would find relevant, especially when Obama’s shocking 2006 conduct in Kenya is considered. But we don’t know about his Kenyan citizenship because the media thought it was newsworthy. We know it only because of the birth-certificate controversy: Pressed to debunk the allegation that Obama was born in Kenya, his embarrassed supporters felt compelled to clarify his Kenyan citizenship."

and

"...But we should know. The point has little to do with whether Obama was born in Hawaii. I’m quite confident that he was. The issue is: What is the true personal history of the man who has been sold to us based on nothing but his personal history? On that issue, Obama has demonstrated himself to be an unreliable source and, sadly, we can’t trust the media to get to the bottom of it. What’s wrong with saying, to a president who promised unprecedented “transparency”: Give us all the raw data and we’ll figure it out for ourselves?"

So, it's OK to make groundless accusations without any evidence to back them up at all, then criticize the accused for failing to prove that the non-existent evidence doesn't exist?

See "Argument from Ignorance". Consider it a mirror held in front of yourself.

And next time you're in court, perhaps we'll demand that you prove the accusations made against you are false, shifting the burden onto your shoulders instead of the prosecution's.

64 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:23:50am

re: #61 VegasRick

Strap - ons.

oh noes

65 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:24:05am

re: #48 Cato the Elder

Nice try. Ain't gonna fly.

whats to fly Cato? whats to fly?

66 Steffan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:24:14am

re: #10 brookly red

Funny thing. I can think of 3 nirthers I know personally (OK, I live in NYC), all 3 are white, single, liberal women over 40 that supported Hillary. This may be more than a Republican thing.

This whole POS was started by the Clinton campaign... so that isn't surprising.

67 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:24:23am

The story has also morphed into: "OK so Linda Lingle, the governor of HI, (who happens to be a Republican), says that the Birth Certificate is real and confirms that Obama was born in Hawaii. BUT - why isn't Obama releasing the birth certificate? There must be something on there that he wants hidden."

I'm sick to death of this story.

68 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:24:29am

re: #57 KingKenrod

McCarthy's article isn't about birtherism, it's about the incredible gaps we have in Obama's history and Obama's tendency to change his past for political advantage. It's an interesting read.

Andrew McCarthy was one of the first to promote the Nirther craze. His latest article is a nudge-nudge, wink-wink attempt to pander to it while at the same time saying he doesn't believe it himself, and hinting around that Obama just might be a Sekrit Moslem after all. It's a terrible article in my opinion.

69 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:24:39am

re: #64 Shug

oh noes

Ho - Ho's

70 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:24:45am

re: #55 MandyManners

FCBBHO.

"Therefore, if you make the enemy's route circuitous and bait him with advantages, though you start out behind him, you will arrive before him. "
-- Sun Tzu

71 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:24:46am

re: #37 horatiolust

The birth-certificate controversy is about Obama’s honesty, not where he was born.

So then you agree he's a citizen?

72 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:25:13am

re: #69 VegasRick

Ho - Ho's

Outside of Vegas county, no?

73 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:25:39am

re: #52 VegasRick

You don't think there are loonys on both sides?

Of course there are. But nirtherism is a GOP thang. A few crossovers from the Clintonista irredentist movement mean zippo.

74 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:25:47am

re: #62 karmic_inquisitor

Let's assume for a moment that Republican strategists see all of this as "just desserts".

Let's assume that the idea is simple - the internut, which it's ability to propagate vast quantities in disinformation - to make seemingly "researched information" easy to manufacture and distribute - was used to defame, discredit and bring down the Bush White House and the Republican Party. So why not turn the same on the Democrats?

From an "all is fair in love and war" standpoint, this certainly can be justified. It isn't like the left took any care in making assertions like "George Bush's opposition to Kyoto caused Hurricane Katrina" or "The Bush White House was in the service of their corrupt paymasters at Halliburton and McDonald's".

Problem is - this is our country that we are debasing - not the individuals with whom we disagree.

The dis-information wars that the country has subjected itself to over the last 5 years is taking a progressively larger and larger toll. It has lead to very bad policy making regarding the economy (we have thrown out the lessons that Republican Reagan and Democrat Clinton had both adopted regarding the economy - it now seems we will relive the French economy of the 80s and 90s, which performed dismally). We are confronted with military problems in Afghanistan that have obvious solutions that aren't likely to be implemented because they can't be justified politically (which explains the vapor-lock silence the conundrum has generated on the left).

Now Republicans I know are telling me that "we will set things right when we get the House back" but that can't be true. The price that Obama will soon pay in having to choose bad options on Afghanistan demonstrates the point - when you whip the base up on flimsy rhetoric, you can't just put that toothpaste back in the tube (to use an overused metaphor).

The policy cul-de-sacs that the Republicans will have to drive right into will include "creation science", hearings on Obama's birthplace, hearings on Obama's religion, and many others.

Meanwhile, our economy is becoming less productive - capital is not flowing to areas where innovation and productivity will create the needed surpluses to pay for all of the new entitlements we have. Instead, the opposite is happening and we will face the same entitlements avalanche that Europe is about to experience.

If we are to be a rational democracy, someone has to get into the business of leadership on issues rather that setting "prairie fires"

Well said, as usual.

75 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:26:16am

re: #54 MandyManners

HRC is part of the conspiracy?


It ALL part of the conspiracy. If it rains on election day, it is part of the conspiracy to them. I just nod & hand em my time sheet.

76 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:26:29am

re: #61 VegasRick

Strap - ons.

Ouch.

77 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:26:40am

re: #65 brookly red

whats to fly Cato? whats to fly?

In your case, apparently, apostrophes.

78 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:26:57am

My avatar "Statement" has not changed since November 5, 2008. Seems appropriate, don't it?

79 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:27:34am

///Just like Karl Rove planted the faux Dan Rather Mary Mapes fraudulent memo.

Come on GOP - pull yer head oot the butt.

80 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:27:55am

There are gaps in Obama's history; his birth is not one of them.

The time for those real gaps to have been explored in depth was during the campaign. Many of us who were aware of those gaps did not vote for Obama, and do not completely trust him now to do what is best for this country.

HOWEVER - Obama is now the elected President; to continue on with this backward-looking stuff is pointless; we should be looking at what is happening NOW at this moment, and what his plans are for the future, and doing what we can do to counter those things we think are wrong for this country.

81 davinvalkri  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:27:58am

re: #68 Charles

Andrew McCarthy was one of the first to promote the Nirther craze. His latest article is a nudge-nudge, wink-wink attempt to pander to it while at the same time saying he doesn't believe it himself, and hinting around that Obama just might be a Sekrit Moslem after all. It's a terrible article in my opinion.

Noticed that. At least "the editors" on National Review online put up an article categorically separating themselves from this madness. The spirit of Buckley yet lives!

82 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:28:24am

re: #78 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My avatar "Statement" has not changed since November 5, 2008. Seems appropriate, don't it?

As long as it hasn't been that long since you've changed your undies, I have no problem with it!

83 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:28:26am

re: #77 Cato the Elder

In your case, apparently, apostrophes.

thank you sir, may I have another?

84 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:28:26am

re: #58 davinvalkri

Maybe so, but it'd help if people on our side of the aisle wouldn't go completely bonkers just because 0bama wone the election. It's been 6 months, for Christ's sake! Give it a rest and stop acting like a John Birch Society member!

That's just it- the sane people are leaving, and that means the crazies sound that much louder.

85 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:28:32am

re: #68 Charles

Andrew McCarthy was one of the first to promote the Nirther craze. His latest article is a nudge-nudge, wink-wink attempt to pander to it while at the same time saying he doesn't believe it himself, and hinting around that Obama just might be a Sekrit Moslem after all. It's a terrible article in my opinion.

Is this the same man who, according to Wiki, prosecuted the WTC bombing?

86 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:28:32am

re: #75 brookly red

It ALL part of the conspiracy. If it rains on election day, it is part of the conspiracy to them. I just nod & hand em my time sheet.

Sunny days are also part of the conspiracy, you know.

87 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:29:07am

I love reading the comments from Freepers who clicked the link to Orly Taitz's website, saw the phishing warning, then proceeded to the site anyway.

Those computers are probably quietly sending spam emails from Kenya right now. The irony is painful.

88 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:29:10am

re: #68 Charles

His latest article is a nudge-nudge, wink-wink attempt...

I, for one, wish he would "Say no more; Say no more."

89 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:29:17am

re: #75 brookly red

It ALL part of the conspiracy. If it rains on election day, it is part of the conspiracy to them. I just nod & hand em my time sheet.

Do they decorate their tin hats?

90 NukeAtomrod  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:29:26am

Other than the fact that we know it must be a fake, what is obvious about the document which shows it to be fake? I'm not really up on my Kenyan documents, so it's hard for me to spot a forgery.

91 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:29:40am

Cantor is another empty suit, I think his 15 minutes are already over.

Sigh.

92 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:31:04am

Suggested Facebook page: "Can I find one million Republicans who don't by the birth certificate nonsense?"

I'd like to see the numbers.

93 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:31:09am

re: #91 itellu3times

Cantor is another empty suit, I think his 15 minutes are already over.

Sigh.

I'm still waiting for mine!
//

94 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:31:23am

re: #89 MandyManners

Do they decorate their tin hats?

/tin hats won't protect you from un-organic milk...

95 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:31:42am

re: #92 Cato the Elder

Suggested Facebook page: "Can I find one million Republicans who don't by the birth certificate nonsense?"

I'd like to see the numbers.

I'm one.

96 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:31:46am

re: #90 NukeAtomrod

Other than the fact that we know it must be a fake, what is obvious about the document which shows it to be fake? I'm not really up on my Kenyan documents, so it's hard for me to spot a forgery.

The fact that it comes through Orly Taitz is the first red flag. The fact that it's a document from Kenya, where a few bucks can buy almost anything, is another.

And notice that the signature at the bottom is dated 1964, three years after Obama's birth. This is crap.

97 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:31:48am
“Mr. Cantor doesn’t question the President’s citizenship, but he has serious questions about the President’s push for government controlled healthcare, taxes on small business job creators, and a huge energy tax on middle class families. He finds it ironic that those most eager to talk about the President’s citizenship are in fact some of his biggest cheerleaders–whether it’s Chris Matthews or others on MSNBC, the Huffington Post, or camera toting liberal bloggers chasing people through the streets of Washington.”

Mr. Cantor isn't completely wrong. Huffo has been laughing at this - but there are also posts on Huffpo promoting the nirth.

98 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:31:59am

re: #80 reine.de.tout

Hiya Toots! Nice.

99 davinvalkri  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:32:23am

re: #92 Cato the Elder

Suggested Facebook page: "Can I find one million Republicans who don't by the birth certificate nonsense?"

I'd like to see the numbers.

Well, commentors and visitors to this site probably number pretty high; you'll find a million here easy.

100 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:32:42am

re: #87 Charles

(btw, thanks VERY much for the phishing warning! ... I ain't goin' there)

101 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:32:56am

re: #93 sattv4u2

I'm still waiting for mine!
//

be careful what you wish for

102 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:33:06am

How has Eric Cantor has managed to get elected, and maintain a leadership position within the GOP? The base doesn't exactly seem too tolerant of the Semites.

103 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:33:38am

re: #96 Charles

And notice that the signature at the bottom is dated 1964, three years after Obama's birth.

Must've been slow-drying ink.

104 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:33:40am

re: #90 NukeAtomrod

Other than the fact that we know it must be a fake, what is obvious about the document which shows it to be fake? I'm not really up on my Kenyan documents, so it's hard for me to spot a forgery.

as I posted above : one of the sane comments over there discusses this:
the name was changed from "Dominion of Kenya" to "Republic of Kenya" 12 December 1964.


I dodn't fact check that statement but I assume it's true. LOL

so they even got the name of the country wrong on their little forgery.

105 NukeAtomrod  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:33:43am

re: #96 Charles

Okay. Fair enough.

106 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:33:47am

re: #101 itellu3times

be careful what you wish for

12" p***k?
/old joke

107 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:34:04am

I wasn't aware Kenya stored BC's in wallets.

/well, i hads to smuggles this baby out.

108 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:34:20am

re: #96 Charles

The fact that it comes through Orly Taitz is the first red flag. The fact that its a document from Kenya, where a few bucks can buy almost anything, is another.

And notice that the signature at the bottom is dated 1964, three years after Obama's birth. This is crap.

I've seen a birth certificate from Kenya from the late 60s. It looked nothing like this. It looked much more like a birth certificate you'd get here.

109 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:34:24am

Cap and Trade
Cars for Clunkers
Healthcare/insurance

Issues with real teeth and these idiots want to concentrate on something as real as the Rathergate papers.

110 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:34:39am

re: #102 drcordell

How has Eric Cantor has managed to get elected, and maintain a leadership position within the GOP? The base doesn't exactly seem too tolerant of the Semites.

?

Jews are quite in fashion among the religious right, as long as you stop somewhere this side of the Westboro Baptists and the like.

111 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:35:04am
The Kenyan flag was adopted on December 12, 1963, after gaining independence from Britain. The Kenyan flag is based on the flag of the Kenyan African National Union (KANU), the party which led the campaign for Kenya's independence. The country changed its name from the Dominion of Kenya to the Republic of Kenya in 1964.


[Link: www.worldflags101.com...]

112 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:35:13am

re: #102 drcordell

How has Eric Cantor has managed to get elected, and maintain a leadership position within the GOP? The base doesn't exactly seem too tolerant of the Semites.

Fuck you.

113 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:35:14am

re: #107 SasquatchOnSteroids

I wasn't aware Kenya stored BC's in wallets.

/well, i hads to smuggles this baby out.

They keep em in an old shoe on the shelf, just in case one of em gets elected POTUS.
/

114 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:35:39am

re: #102 drcordell

How has Eric Cantor has managed to get elected, and maintain a leadership position within the GOP? The base doesn't exactly seem too tolerant of the Semites.

And this opinion is supported by what, exactly?

115 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:36:02am

re: #106 VegasRick

twelve inch pianist

/I told you to be careful!

116 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:36:08am

re: #96 Charles

The fact that it comes through Orly Taitz is the first red flag. The fact that it's a document from Kenya, where a few bucks can buy almost anything, is another.

And notice that the signature at the bottom is dated 1964, three years after Obama's birth. This is crap.

I'll add another obvious point: the fact that this isn't news is the strongest argument against authenticity. Unless you're willing to expand the conspiracy to the entire planet and beyond, actual proof that the President of the United States isn't qualified to hold office would be front-paged, non-stop, by every media outlet on earth.

117 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:36:17am

re: #92 Cato the Elder

Suggested Facebook page: "Can I find one million Republicans who don't by the birth certificate nonsense?"

I'd like to see the numbers.

here are some... do what you will.

[Link: www.politico.com...]

118 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:36:31am

re: #84 Sharmuta

It's really why I think the Democrats should become the new 'conservative' party while a new liberal party not tied to the traditional political "machines" should form.

/there, I said it.

119 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:36:36am

re: #114 solomonpanting

It's supported by quotes like this all over FreeRepublic and Redstate...

Eric Cantor is a card carrying member of the Jewish Lobby dedicated to bend America’s policy for the benefit of Israel. Cantor’s constituency should recognize this parasite agent of Israel masquerades as a conservative to get their votes, but like many jewish senators and congressmen (e.g., Howard Berman, Joe Lieberman, Elliott Engel, Diane Feinstein) has only one main mission- to help advance Israel’s interests. This is a parasite supported by AIPAC who fools the working class whites in Virginia and laughs all the way to the bank.
120 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:36:55am

re: #113 VegasRick

They keep em in an old shoe on the shelf, just in case one of em gets elected POTUS.
/

Theys tricksey.

121 DEZes  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:37:08am

re: #102 drcordell

Your problem is obvious.

122 Erik The Red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:37:16am

re: #112 MandyManners

Fuck you.

Morning 2M. Once again right to the point. :))

123 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:37:17am

re: #102 drcordell

How has Eric Cantor has managed to get elected, and maintain a leadership position within the GOP? The base doesn't exactly seem too tolerant of the Semites.

He's trying to hijack the thread. Only a mindless hermit would ever make this kind of comment honestly.

Please... GAZE.

124 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:37:30am

re: #115 itellu3times

twelve inch pianist

/I told you to be careful!

The version I remember had a guy about a foot tall kicking everybody's beers over.

125 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:37:39am

re: #102 drcordell

How has Eric Cantor has managed to get elected, and maintain a leadership position within the GOP? The base doesn't exactly seem too tolerant of the Semites.

Yes, the Dems are famous for their support of Israel. Especially, the current one in the White House...he LOVES the jews, that is fer sure.

126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:37:43am

re: #102 drcordell

What kind of bullshit is that?

You try to disguise it as "devil's advocate". But you're just an asshole.

127 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:37:47am

re: #119 drcordell

It's supported by quotes like this all over FreeRepublic and Redstate...

You should familiarize yourself with the phenomenon of a few wack jobs making a lot of noise on the web. Often has little to do with actual electoral numbers.

128 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:37:58am

HuffPo joins the circus:

The only thing weirder than the Birthers are the anti-Birthers, who blame the Birthers for being conspiracy theorists yet actively feed the conspiracy by refusing to call for President Obama to release his birth certificate.

The state official in Hawaii who manages such things has reiterated that there is indeed an original birth certificate on file which would confirm President Obama's having been born in Hawaii and that she has seen it, but state law won't allow her to release it unless the president authorizes it.

So what's the problem here? Release the original and let's be done with this madness.

129 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:38:06am

re: #119 drcordell

It's supported by quotes like this all over FreeRepublic and Redstate...

Then, obviously, those folks aren't the base.

130 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:38:15am

Don't get hooked.

131 davinvalkri  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:38:31am

re: #118 laZardo

It's really why I think the Democrats should become the new 'conservative' party while a new liberal party not tied to the traditional political "machines" should form.

/there, I said it.

Go back to the days of Ye Olde Classical Liberalism, eh? Sure, I'd bite.

132 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:38:54am

re: #125 Desert Dog

... with a few fava beans

133 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:39:00am

re: #104 Shug

as I posted above : one of the sane comments over there discusses this:
the name was changed from "Dominion of Kenya" to "Republic of Kenya" 12 December 1964.

I dodn't fact check that statement but I assume it's true. LOL

so they even got the name of the country wrong on their little forgery.

Well, uh, maybe they used a Notary Seal From The Future and a Birth Certificate Form From The Future. Sort of like Dan Rather's Typewriter From The Future.

The whole think is a Skynet conspiracy!

134 princetrumpet  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:39:05am

Offices don't fold birth certificates. Relatives do occasion but who gives relatives outside the immediate family birth certificates? The font looks VERY suspect at the bottom.

This is getting stupider and stupider by the minute. It's embarrassing.

135 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:39:16am

re: #119 drcordell

It's supported by quotes like this all over FreeRepublic and Redstate...

Idiot. That's not the base, that's the radical crazy right, like Buchanan, Malkin, Spencer, Rush, Beck... in the least, the base is made up of a lot of fundamentalist who would die before turning their back on Israel.

136 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:39:19am

Obama is...a Hawaiian.

/DUN DUN DUNNN dramaticreverb

// q;

137 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:39:28am

Oh, it dinged me down! I'm gonna' cwy.

138 Lynn B.  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:39:29am

re: #87 Charles

I love reading the comments from Freepers who clicked the link to Orly Taitz's website, saw the phishing warning, then proceeded to the site anyway.

Those computers are probably quietly sending spam emails from Kenya right now. The irony is painful.

Yeegads!

Part of this site was listed for suspicious activity 1 time(s) over the past 90 days.

[...]

Of the 12 pages we tested on the site over the past 90 days, 4 page(s) resulted in malicious software being downloaded and installed without user consent. The last time Google visited this site was on 2009-08-01, and the last time suspicious content was found on this site was on 2009-08-01.

Malicious software includes 5 scripting exploit(s). Successful infection resulted in an average of 2 new process(es) on the target machine.

Malicious software is hosted on 3 domain(s), including cybercrime-protection.cn/, security-alerts.cn/, mcafee-malware.com/.

1 domain(s) appear to be functioning as intermediaries for distributing malware to visitors of this site, including security-alerts.cn/.

This site was hosted on 1 network(s) including AS6245 (NETWORK).

[...]

Over the past 90 days, [Link: www.orlytaitzesq.com...] appeared to function as an intermediary for the infection of 1 site(s) including zillr.com/.

And they clicked through anyway?

139 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:39:33am

re: #118 laZardo

It's really why I think the Democrats should become the new 'conservative' party while a new liberal party not tied to the traditional political "machines" should form.

/there, I said it.

I think a party based on individual liberty and fiscal responsibility would do well and gain a following of Goldwater styled conservatives, moderates and independents, and even some right-leaning democrats. You know- the people needed to win elections. I think that's what folks are looking for in politics right now, and we'll see if anyone can rise to the occasion.

140 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:39:47am

re: #130 jaunte

Don't get hooked.

But...

141 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:39:55am

re: #125 Desert Dog

Yes, the Dems are famous for their support of Israel. Especially, the current one in the White House...he LOVES the jews, that is fer sure.

For a party that hates Israel the Democrats sure do garner a lot of Jewish votes. Obama took 77% of the Jewish vote in the last election, and Gore/Kerry did even better than that. Go look at any historical election data, Jewish voters are a pretty solid Democratic constituency.

142 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:40:03am

re: #119 drcordell

Again, fuck you.

143 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:40:44am

Gonna' take a walk.

144 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:41:03am

re: #137 MandyManners

Oh, it dinged me down! I'm gonna' cwy.

You can put your head on my shoulder.

145 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:41:35am

A plant with no water dies.

146 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:41:44am

re: #135 Walter L. Newton

Idiot. That's not the base, that's the radical crazy right, like Buchanan, Malkin, Spencer, Rush, Beck... in the least, the base is made up of a lot of fundamentalist who would die before turning their back on Israel.

You automatically assume that support for Israel means support of Jewish people. The religious right believes that Israel needs to be a Jewish state in order to facilitate the second coming of Christ. Support for Israel does not mean those people would vote for a Jewish elected official.

147 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:42:14am

re: #139 Sharmuta

Smaller, more practical government has been a libertarian (emphasis on lowercase l) point, not necessarily a conservative one. I'm thinking of something leaning more to the European left in terms of social values, especially since many Democrats still lean 'right' in terms of these sort of things...

148 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:42:39am

re: #127 itellu3times

You should familiarize yourself with the phenomenon of a few wack jobs making a lot of noise on the web. Often has little to do with actual electoral numbers.

The squeaky crackpots gets the grease...on both sides. The Nirthers, Paulians, and other assorted numbnuts that have started squawking so loudly lately (and definitely amplified by the MSM) are a SMALL MINORITY of the Republican Party. For all of you singing happy songs about the demise of the GOP, you better not get your hopes up too high, we are not going away and we will get back into positions of power. And, judging by the direction of the country Obama is taking us, the Dems are doing quite a bit of the work for us.

149 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:42:41am

re: #95 VegasRick

I'm one.

two

150 Gus  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:42:44am

OK here are some throbbing nirth certificates I just did on the fly...

Image: throbingnirthcert2.gif

Image: throbingnirthcert3.gif

151 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:42:52am

re: #141 drcordell

For a party that hates Israel the Democrats sure do garner a lot of Jewish votes. Obama took 77% of the Jewish vote in the last election, and Gore/Kerry did even better than that. Go look at any historical election data, Jewish voters are a pretty solid Democratic constituency.

You really don't understand history and politics? Those same left Jewish voters are the same Jews who don't spend a lot of effort supporting Israel.

Those figures do no change the fact that the base of the conservative movement supports Israel.

So me some figures that say otherwise. Show me some figures that say 70 percent of the conservative base DOESN'T support Jews and Israel.

You are really dishonest and you know it.

152 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:43:47am

re: #141 drcordell

Jewish voters are a pretty solid Democratic constituency.

Which means, by extension, that Republicans hate Jews?

153 Lynn B.  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:43:55am

re: #119 drcordell

It's supported by quotes like this all over FreeRepublic and Redstate...

Uhhh ... funny. That exact comment was posted in response to the Plum Line post Charles linked above. Hardly a right wing/Republican site.

154 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:44:03am

re: #146 drcordell

You automatically assume that support for Israel means support of Jewish people. The religious right believes that Israel needs to be a Jewish state in order to facilitate the second coming of Christ. Support for Israel does not mean those people would vote for a Jewish elected official.

Figures, give me stats, facts and figures. Hell, you just did for the left, let's hear what you got for the right, except your damaged opinion.

155 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:44:06am

"smoking gun"

More like smoking bong.

Actually, I'm fresh out of snarky comments over this. It isn't funny any more, especially with that poll showing the nirther disease spreading like wildfire among the Republican base. The leadership has not jumped on the nirther bandwagon but their cowardly waffling is all the more despicable since it appears to be based on nothing more than sleazy opportunism.

With that, Congressman Trent Franks (R-Az) is looking better and better for his unequivocal denunciation of nirtherism. What a stand-up guy.

156 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:45:00am

re: #146 drcordell

GAZE. I'm done. I talk argue with dishonest fools.

157 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:45:12am

re: #119 drcordell

It's supported by quotes like this all over FreeRepublic and Redstate...

You support your assertions by quotes from RedState and Freeper? Wow.

And you believe all of them. Wow.

158 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:45:18am

re: #146 drcordell

You automatically assume that support for Israel means support of Jewish people. The religious right believes that Israel needs to be a Jewish state in order to facilitate the second coming of Christ. Support for Israel does not mean those people would vote for a Jewish elected official.

I am religious.
I am on the right.
I do NOT believe that Israel needs to be a Jewish state in order to facilitate the second coming of Christ.

159 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:45:22am

re: #118 laZardo

It's really why I think the Democrats should become the new 'conservative' party while a new liberal party not tied to the traditional political "machines" should form.

/there, I said it.

If the Democratic Party reverts to it's "old self" it will want to secede from the Union, start the KKK up again, block any civil right legislation and long for the days of the USSR. No thanks, I'll pass.

160 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:45:45am

re: #141 drcordell

For a party that hates Israel the Democrats sure do garner a lot of Jewish votes. Obama took 77% of the Jewish vote in the last election, and Gore/Kerry did even better than that. Go look at any historical election data, Jewish voters are a pretty solid Democratic constituency.

Not for long...

Obama Pushes Jews Into Republican Arms

Barack Obama may yet succeed in doing what no Republican has yet come close to doing, which is to create Republican Jews (yes, some Jews voted for Reagan, but because of his personal magnetism, not his ideology. And then they went back to voting Democratic).

There's no question that Obama's approach to Israel has turned off pro-Israel Jews.

Starting with the Cairo speech, in which he equated the Palestinian 'pursuit of a homeland' to the Holocaust, foundering through the US reneging on commitments to allow building within existing settlements, and coming apart on the rocks of his apparent acceptance of an Iranian bomb, Obama's Israel policy has been a shipwreck. And it's obvious that this is just fine with the majority of the Democratic Party that elected him.

Of course not all Jews are Zionists, and there is probably no hope for the anti-Israel J Street - who opposed Israel's military action in Gaza and even endorsed a performance of the antisemitic play "Seven Jewish Children". But some relatively centrist Jewish Democrats are beginning to have second thoughts about Mr. Obama.

Recently, the Chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish Organizations, Alan Solow - a Chicago native who was a long-time Obama backer - publicly criticized Obama's stance on Jewish building in Jerusalem. Although Solow was present at Obama's recent meeting with Jewish leaders, apparently he was not satisfied with the explanations he received.

Maybe the Obamacrats have calculated that few American Jews today, especially young ones, are enthusiastic supporters of Israel. But keep in mind that while the J Street types are vocal in their anti-Zionism, my guess is that the 'silent majority' of American Jews still does not want an American policy which is actively hostile to the Jewish state. And that is how the Obama Administration, increasingly, appears.

What is keeping these Jews on the Democratic side today are domestic issues, and of course the impression the Republicans give of hopeless incompetence. It will be interesting to see how far Obama has to go in a pro-Arab anti-Israel direction to cause them to jump.

161 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:46:24am

re: #147 laZardo

Smaller, more practical government has been a libertarian (emphasis on lowercase l) point, not necessarily a conservative one. I'm thinking of something leaning more to the European left in terms of social values, especially since many Democrats still lean 'right' in terms of these sort of things...

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Limited government is a conservative principle. Social values fall outside the scope of government except that they are reflected in the law. It is not the role of government to enforce what they think social values should be upon the populace. That leads to authoritarianism, which generally leads to worse.

162 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:46:30am

Calling cordell. over

Get stuffed. over

over and out

163 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:46:31am

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

"dishonest"

:D ... I admire your restraint, Walter

/I prefer the stronger variant

164 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:46:42am

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

You really don't understand history and politics? Those same left Jewish voters are the same Jews who don't spend a lot of effort supporting Israel.

Those figures do no change the fact that the base of the conservative movement supports Israel.

So me some figures that say otherwise. Show me some figures that say 70 percent of the conservative base DOESN'T support Jews and Israel.

You are really dishonest and you know it.

These crazies believe that Jews must be living in the holy land, as proscribed by the bible, for the second coming to occur. That does not mean they do not harbor anti-semitic attitudes. I'm not saying that EVERY Republican "hates teh joos." I am saying that the nirther base crazies in the South are not known to be the most tolerant of Jews.

165 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:46:44am

re: #156 Walter L. Newton

I talk argue with dishonest fools.

"Some people have a way with words. Others have ... uh... um... 'not way'"...
-Steve Martin

166 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:47:05am

re: #141 drcordell

For a party that hates Israel the Democrats sure do garner a lot of Jewish votes. Obama took 77% of the Jewish vote in the last election, and Gore/Kerry did even better than that. Go look at any historical election data, Jewish voters are a pretty solid Democratic constituency.

This is one of those modern mysteries, discussed endlessly on LGF.

Have you seen any of the leftoid activisit demonstrations in the past few years? Are you aware of the track record of a lot of Obama's political appointees? Much less Reverend Wright?

But this isn't about the dems or Obama, you made a dumb statement about the Republican base, so try to focus your own answers to your own questions.

167 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:47:18am

re: #96 Charles

The fact that it comes through Orly Taitz is the first red flag. The fact that it's a document from Kenya, where a few bucks can buy almost anything, is another.

And notice that the signature at the bottom is dated 1964, three years after Obama's birth. This is crap.

I am sure there is a document in Kenya being prepared right now that says "Dear Mr. Obama, sorry we mis-dated your Muslim son's real, true and otherwise correct Birth Certificate. Oooops."

168 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:48:00am

re: #158 reine.de.tout

I am religious.
I am on the right.
I do NOT believe that Israel needs to be a Jewish state in order to facilitate the second coming of Christ.

But, it couldn't hurt!
/

169 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:48:29am
170 Lynn B.  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:48:42am

re: #146 drcordell

You automatically assume that support for Israel means support of Jewish people. The religious right believes that Israel needs to be a Jewish state in order to facilitate the second coming of Christ. Support for Israel does not mean those people would vote for a Jewish elected official.

Complete and utter bullshit.

171 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:48:44am

re: #164 drcordell

Oh, FFS.

Now the South.

172 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:48:53am

re: #146 drcordell

The religious right believes that Israel needs to be a Jewish state in order to facilitate the second coming of Christ.

Typical Jooo conspiracy theorist idiocy. Can you put forth a few of these talking points into an argument or will you continue your one offs?

173 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:48:58am

re: #158 reine.de.tout

re: #168 itellu3times

But, it couldn't hurt!
/

There are many more 'inns" than there were 2010 years ago!!

(just sayin)!

174 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:49:06am

re: #164 drcordell

You're a fucking bigot.

175 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:49:14am

re: #169 MikeySDCA

You, too.

176 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:49:22am

re: #169 MikeySDCA

What?

177 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:49:41am

re: #169 MikeySDCA

Or of anyone else, for that matter.

Exactly! That is the point I am trying to get across here. These people are so fearful of anyone different that they refuse to acknowledge Obama's Presidency. That doesn't exactly bode well for tolerance of Jews.

178 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:50:09am

re: #164 drcordell

These crazies believe that Jews must be living in the holy land, as proscribed by the bible, for the second coming to occur. That does not mean they do not harbor anti-semitic attitudes. I'm not saying that EVERY Republican "hates teh joos." I am saying that the nirther base crazies in the South are not known to be the most tolerant of Jews.

You got proof to back up your fairytale assertions? I live in the south and to tell you the truth I can count on one hand the number of anti-semites I have met the past 20 years. All of those who were, BTW, were liberals.

179 BignJames  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:50:14am

re: #164 drcordell

These crazies believe that Jews must be living in the holy land, as proscribed by the bible, for the second coming to occur. That does not mean they do not harbor anti-semitic attitudes. I'm not saying that EVERY Republican "hates teh joos." I am saying that the nirther base crazies in the South are not known to be the most tolerant of Jews.


Yeah, you should see all the signs in the store windows down here..."juden verboten"...stuff like that.

180 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:50:27am

re: #174 MandyManners

You're a fucking bigot.

that was a short walk

181 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:50:58am

re: #177 drcordell

Exactly! That is the point I am trying to get across here. These people are so fearful of anyone different that they refuse to acknowledge Obama's Presidency. That doesn't exactly bode well for tolerance of Jews.

You are one of the stupidest, most intolerant motherfuckers I've encountered in a long time.

182 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:51:07am

re: #164 drcordell

These crazies believe that Jews must be living in the holy land, as proscribed by the bible, for the second coming to occur. That does not mean they do not harbor anti-semitic attitudes. I'm not saying that EVERY Republican "hates teh joos." I am saying that the nirther base crazies in the South are not known to be the most tolerant of Jews.

prescribed

heh

you're just trotting out your blind prejudices for all to see when you talk about "nirther base crazies in the South", when the truth is they're all over, and the question is just ... well, how base they really are.

183 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:51:19am

re: #161 Sharmuta

It could be possible for a "liberal" party to hold libertarian principle while the "conserative" one would be for bigger government as they are now, after all the 'so-cons' did try that over the last few years.

For example, William F. Buckley's stance on drugs is in sync with "liberal" viewpoints, and I'm sure there are a lot of lizards in favor of expanded rights for the GLBT community.

/following a biaxial spectrum...

184 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:51:21am

*breathe*

185 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:51:49am

re: #177 drcordell

Exactly! That is the point I am trying to get across here. These people are so fearful of anyone different that they refuse to acknowledge Obama's Presidency. That doesn't exactly bode well for tolerance of Jews.


Conflating all those that you distrust into one big group and then ascribing motives to them based on what "everyone knows" only shows you to be what you are trying to condemn.

Pretty inelegant.

186 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:52:01am

re: #177 drcordell

Exactly! That is the point I am trying to get across here. These people are so fearful of anyone different that they refuse to acknowledge Obama's Presidency. That doesn't exactly bode well for tolerance of Jews.

So if I don't support Obama I must hate Jews?

187 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:52:14am

re: #164 drcordell

These crazies believe that Jews must be living in the holy land, as proscribed by the bible, for the second coming to occur. That does not mean they do not harbor anti-semitic attitudes. I'm not saying that EVERY Republican "hates teh joos." I am saying that the nirther base crazies in the South are not known to be the most tolerant of Jews.

Funny - some of the most disgusting Jew-hate I have personally witnessed, has always come from the mouth of a lefty.

188 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:52:18am

re: #184 MandyManners

Is it safe to come out from behind the blast barriers yet?

/ D:

189 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:52:22am

re: #169 MikeySDCA

Um, just why are people down-dinging this?

190 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:52:23am

re: #184 MandyManners

*breathe*

Mandy? Thank you for beginning to use the "FFS" initials. Don't know where you got them, but, I got them from you.

191 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:52:25am

re: #158 reine.de.tout

I am religious.
I am on the right.
I do NOT believe that Israel needs to be a Jewish state in order to facilitate the second coming of Christ.

I really screwed that up.

I do believe Israel's right to be a Jewish state, but I don't believe that for the reason that it will facilitate the second coming of Christ.

192 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:52:29am

re: #169 MikeySDCA

Or of anyone else, for that matter.

giving you a chance to clarify:

you are implying nirther crazies are intolerant and not southerners , correct?

193 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:53:03am

re: #172 BigPapa

Typical Jooo conspiracy theorist idiocy. Can you put forth a few of these talking points into an argument or will you continue your one offs?

WTF are you talking about? Are you denying that the Religious Right believes in the rapture? Here's an article from the Guardian to read.
Learn Something.

Here is the lede:

The members of the Christian Coalition of America are some of the most passionate defenders of Israel in the United States. There's just one catch: they want to convert all Jews to Christianity. Matthew Engel reports on an unholy alliance
194 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:53:05am

re: #164 drcordell

re: #178 NJDhockeyfan

You got proof to back up your fairytale assertions? I live in the south and to tell you the truth I can count on one hand the number of anti-semites I have met the past 20 years. All of those who were, BTW, were liberals.

Lived in Boston for the better part of 45 years

Living in Atlanta for the past 11

I can say I met more anti-semites in 'Progressive" Massachusetts per annum than I have here in the "redneck" south in a decade

195 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:53:09am

Someone left the bigot running.
It's all over the floor.
Fortunately, I have Sham-wows.

196 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:53:41am

re: #186 NJDhockeyfan

So if I don't support Obama I must hate Jews?

/& Blacks, & working people & Latinos & puppies &...

197 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:53:48am

re: #191 reine.de.tout

I really screwed that up.

I do believe Israel's right to be a Jewish state, but I don't believe that for the reason that it will facilitate the second coming of Christ.

Don't worry about it.
I got your meaning on the first pass.

198 Steffan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:53:51am

re: #90 NukeAtomrod

Other than the fact that we know it must be a fake, what is obvious about the document which shows it to be fake? I'm not really up on my Kenyan documents, so it's hard for me to spot a forgery.

One telling point, IMHO, is that they don't show a clear scan of the document.

Besides which, as a member of the British Commonwealth, the original form is printed in red.

199 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:54:42am

re: #195 SasquatchOnSteroids

Someone left the bigot running.
It's all over the floor.
Fortunately, I have Sham-wows.

Nothing beats the original in cleaning up the worst messes like a pro.

/RIP Billy Mays ;_;

200 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:54:42am

re: #186 NJDhockeyfan

So if I don't support Obama I must hate Jews?

using that logic, Reverend Wrong and calypso Louis really love the Jews

201 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:54:46am

re: #198 Steffan

Check out the note on citizenship at the bottom.

202 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:54:57am

re: #184 MandyManners

*breathe*

hey I keep updinging your clear and present posts to Mr. Troll, makes me chuckle anyway.

203 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:54:58am
204 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:55:13am

re: #164 drcordell

These crazies believe that Jews must be living in the holy land, as proscribed by the bible, for the second coming to occur. That does not mean they do not harbor anti-semitic attitudes. I'm not saying that EVERY Republican "hates teh joos." I am saying that the nirther base crazies in the South are not known to be the most tolerant of Jews.

I thought "proscribed" meant "prohibited".

Anyhow - you are again assuming all the crazies are in "the south".
Did you have a bad experience "in the south"?

205 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:55:28am

re: #169 MikeySDCA

Or of anyone else, for that matter.

WTF is it with stereotyping people from the South nowadays?

206 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:55:29am

re: #170 Lynn B.

Complete and utter bullshit.

Read this. You might learn something.
Source

I'll include the quotes for those who don't want to click through.

This support is not offered with any ifs or buts either. The placards round the hall insist that every inch of the Holy Land should belong to Israel and that there should never be a Palestinian state. These assertions are backed up by biblical quotations. It could be a rally in Jerusalem for those Israelis who think Ariel Sharon is a dangerous softie.

But something very strange is going on here. There are thousands of people cheering for Israel in the huge Washington Convention Centre. But not one of them appears to be Jewish, at least not in the conventional sense.

207 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:55:39am

re: #189 itellu3times

Um, just why are people down-dinging this?

Because he said that Southerners are not tolerant of others.

208 eneri  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:55:46am

I'll tell you what is frightening to me about this Nirther business it is the manifestation of hate. There is not even a modicum of common sense there, but there is a lot of hate. I read (I do not know if it's true) that the founders of this movement are anti-Semites who say Jews are behind Obama's machinations. Oh well, why not this too, we are behind everything else. (sarcasm off) Hate has no place in America, and to tell you the truth I don't think either side has a lock on nuttiness.

209 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:55:47am

re: #203 MikeySDCA

I was speaking of nirther crazies in the South, who are not conspicuously tolerant of anything.

that's what I thought. thanks.

I think the downdinging was people misunderstanding what you said.

210 Erik The Red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:55:53am

re: #184 MandyManners

*breathe*

To early on a Sunday to blow a GASKET 2M. Go for a walk and a fag. :)

211 Gang of One  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:55:53am

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

You really don't understand history and politics? Those same left Jewish voters are the same Jews who don't spend a lot of effort supporting Israel.

Spot on, Walter.
/Can only give you one +ding.

212 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:56:08am

Right wing Nirthbloggers are all over this:

[Link: radiopatriot.blogspot.com...]

213 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:56:16am

re: #192 Shug

giving you a chance to clarify:

you are implying nirther crazies are intolerant and not southerners , correct?

Shug - folks have their misconceptions about the south.
Facts won't change it.

214 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:56:20am

re: #205 BigPapa

Geography is still a safe playground for bigotry.

215 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:56:43am

re: #204 reine.de.tout

I thought "proscribed" meant "prohibited".

Anyhow - you are again assuming all the crazies are in "the south".
Did you have a bad experience "in the south"?

I wonder if he has a purtty mouth.

216 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:56:45am

re: #198 Steffan

One telling point, IMHO, is that they don't show a clear scan of the document.

Besides which, as a member of the British Commonwealth, the original form is printed in red.

Printed on the bottom, in bold...

NOTE: A Certificate of Birth is NOT Proof of Kenyan Citizenship.

/nirthers sure got told. great find.

217 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:56:47am

re: #204 reine.de.tout

I thought "proscribed" meant "prohibited".

Anyhow - you are again assuming all the crazies are in "the south".
Did you have a bad experience "in the south"?

Go look at the poll that Charles posted earlier from Research 2k. 70% of the white voters in the South don't believe that Obama is legitimately the President. The South is the only place in America where the Nirthers are anything but the loon fringe.

218 Lynn B.  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:57:06am

re: #191 reine.de.tout

I really screwed that up.

I do believe Israel's right to be a Jewish state, but I don't believe that for the reason that it will facilitate the second coming of Christ.

Got that the first time.

But I'll take an excuse to ding you up for it again. :)

219 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:57:07am

re: #193 drcordell

Hey, dipshit, not all Christians belong to that organization.

220 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:57:17am
221 altermite  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:57:26am

Someone asked about facebook birther groups. Largest one I found had just under 3000 people, which is pretty small compared to many.

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

Then again, the facebook demographic is generally not the one that fits the birther demographic.

222 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:57:27am

re: #203 MikeySDCA

I was speaking of nirther crazies in the South, who are not conspicuously tolerant of anything.

Please see #194

Refute away!

223 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:57:40am

re: #193 drcordell

(Besides the Catholic Church, of course) is it right-wing Protestants in general whom you hate, or merely those who believe in a Rapture?

FOAD
GAZE

224 davinvalkri  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:57:42am

re: #216 laZardo

Printed on the bottom, in bold...

NOTE: A Certificate of Birth is NOT Proof of Kenyan Citizenship.

/nirthers sure got told. great find.

I hope it helps. They seem remarkably resilient to fact attacks.

225 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:57:56am

re: #213 reine.de.tout

Shug - folks have their misconceptions about the south.
Facts won't change it.


ask him, but I don't think it was a swipe against southerners. Just nirther crazies.
really though the word " soutnern" should have been left out. not relevent.
nirthers are crazy wherever they are from.

I see your point

226 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:58:08am

re: #203 MikeySDCA

I was speaking of nirther crazies in the South, who are not conspicuously tolerant of anything.

So ALL Southern Nirthers are intolerant of anything? Wow. Where's your proof?

227 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:58:15am

re: #177 drcordell

Exactly! That is the point I am trying to get across here. These people ...

You got your point across long ago, and keep making it.

228 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:58:19am

Look who just appeared on Nirthblogger Andrea Shea King's internet radio show: Jim DeMint and Alan Keyes.

Just in case anyone still doesn't get that top GOP politicians are deliberately pandering to this garbage.

229 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:58:31am

re: #220 MikeySDCA

Maybe they can undo it, or upding this.

Fixed mine.

230 JPL17  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:58:58am

re: #15 solomonpanting

One condition of US citizenship:

Obama could have been born on Mars and still qualify.

Our anti-nirtherism legal arguments need to be valid, otherwise we add fuel to the nirther fire. Please therefore note that the legal argument "he could have been born on Mars" appears to be INVALID, and should NOT be relied on. Per James Taranto's Thursday column, the law at the time of Obama's birth was as follows:

In fact, although some people born outside the U.S. are natural-born citizens..., the timing and circumstances of Obama’s birth make the place a necessary condition for natural-born citizenship. The State Department Web site explains the law that would have applied if Obama were born overseas:

Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child’s birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.

Obama was born before 1986 to married parents, and his father was an alien. Thus if it were an overseas birth, his mother would have to have lived in the U.S. for 5 years after age 14 in order for her child to be a natural-born American. Mrs. Obama was only 18 when Barack was born, so she had not even lived 5 years after age 14.

SOURCE: [Link: online.wsj.com...]

Since the location of Obama's birth apparently does make a difference in whether he is a statutory "natural born citizen," please let's all refrain from making the argument, "he could have been born on Mars." The fact is Obama couldn't have been born on Mars and still be President.

Nirthers are nothing but trouble. Let's not add fuel to their fire by making legal arguments that can be shot down.

231 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:59:08am

re: #217 drcordell

Go look at the poll that Charles posted earlier from Research 2k. 70% of the white voters in the South don't believe that Obama is legitimately the President. The South is the only place in America where the Nirthers are anything but the loon fringe.

I don't recall that the categories were broken down into race.

232 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:59:10am
233 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:59:29am

re: #213 reine.de.tout

Shug - folks have their misconceptions about the south.
Facts won't change it.

Misconceptions? The raw data shows that the Nirther movement is firmly rooted in the South. I'm sure you're just going to shoot the messenger and discredit the Research 2k poll, but other pollsters will be asking Nirther questions soon. Guarantee you they find the exact same thing.

234 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:59:37am

re: #207 MandyManners

Because he said that Southerners are not tolerant of others.

I never got that reading, and I think he's now clarified it. Nirther crazies in the South ... or does someone think it's OK to be a nirther crazy, as long as they are in the South? Now, that would be worth a downding!

235 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:59:42am

re: #205 BigPapa

/mmm, video games. :9

236 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:59:45am

re: #217 drcordell

Go look at the poll that Charles posted earlier from Research 2k. 70% of the white voters in the South don't believe that Obama is legitimately the President. The South is the only place in America where the Nirthers are anything but the loon fringe.

Here's the poll.

I see no racial breakdown there.

237 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 10:59:54am

re: #231 MandyManners

I don't recall that the categories were broken down into race.


all whites are racist. come on Mandy, you know that. No need to publish it

/

238 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:00:00am

re: #231 MandyManners

I don't recall that the categories were broken down into race.

Didn't you know? Only white people can vote in the South.

/

239 BignJames  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:00:03am

re: #217 drcordell

Go look at the poll that Charles posted earlier from Research 2k. 70% of the white voters in the South don't believe that Obama is legitimately the President. The South is the only place in America where the Nirthers are anything but the loon fringe.


I'm from the south...I'm conservative...I'm not a recluse...and I don't know any.

240 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:00:10am

re: #217 drcordell

Go look at the poll that Charles posted earlier from Research 2k. 70% of the white voters in the South don't believe that Obama is legitimately the President. The South is the only place in America where the Nirthers are anything but the loon fringe.

It was not broken down into race, you lying asshole.

241 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:00:17am

re: #228 Charles

Ow my head.

242 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:00:21am

re: #183 laZardo

It could be possible for a "liberal" party to hold libertarian principle while the "conserative" one would be for bigger government as they are now, after all the 'so-cons' did try that over the last few years.

For example, William F. Buckley's stance on drugs is in sync with "liberal" viewpoints, and I'm sure there are a lot of lizards in favor of expanded rights for the GLBT community.

/following a biaxial spectrum...

You need to un-learn what you have learned. The left-right dichotomy is flawed. But the type of conservative that was Buckley and Senator Goldwater is more in-synch with the constrained vision. It is false that those who wish to use the might of government to push social issues are "conservatives". They are something else. Certainly they're in the party and call themselves conservatives, and we would call them "social conservatives", but they are not a part of the Goldwater mold.

Getting back to the dichotomy- it is the difference in a person's view of the proper role and scope of government that distinguishes between the two visions. One vision is suitable for a democratic republic, the other leads to socialism or other forms of authoritarianism where the boundary between the rule of law and the rule of men is broken.

243 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:00:33am

re: #219 MandyManners

Hey, dipshit, not all Christians belong to that organization.

Did I fucking say they did, dipshit? Go back and read what I have been saying. I said that there are fundamentalist Christian groups that believe Israel needs to control the holy land to facilitate the rapture. They support Israel based on THIS FACT ALONE, and it has nothing to do with tolerance/support of Jews themselves. This isn't complicated...

244 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:00:47am

re: #206 drcordell

The 'Religious Right' is the new 'Jewish Bankers.'

Ignorance. Thinking like yours fuels mob mentality.

245 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:00:48am

bbl

246 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:00:59am

re: #183 laZardo

It could be possible for a "liberal" party to hold libertarian principle while the "conserative" one would be for bigger government as they are now, after all the 'so-cons' did try that over the last few years.

For example, William F. Buckley's stance on drugs is in sync with "liberal" viewpoints, and I'm sure there are a lot of lizards in favor of expanded rights for the GLBT community.

/following a biaxial spectrum...

Sharmuta and others have posted that diagram a few times. I think that is more accurate than the linear model used in the past. The only problem with categorizing people in that manner is that people have unique beliefs and sometimes cannot be categorized. I am definitely a fiscal conservative when it comes to money matters. I have some libertarian views when it comes to government involvement. I have some very open tolerance of certain social issues, gay rights, immigration, etc. So, what I am? I vote Republican almost all of the time, only because my dislike of the alternative. I have not happily voted for a national candidate since Ronald Reagan. Usually, I am voting against someone else.

The right has learned some lessons from the left. The right has given the left some ideas. Both sides have good ideas. When ideology, in fighting and political nastiness becomes the rule rather than the exception, we get the horrible polarization and bitterness we have today.

247 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:01:12am

re: #217 drcordell

Go look at the poll that Charles posted earlier from Research 2k. 70% of the white voters in the South don't believe that Obama is legitimately the President. The South is the only place in America where the Nirthers are anything but the loon fringe.

LIAR.

248 altermite  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:01:25am

re: #182 itellu3times

prescribed

heh

you're just trotting out your blind prejudices for all to see when you talk about "nirther base crazies in the South", when the truth is they're all over, and the question is just ... well, how base they really are.

You know that the 2K poll put the majority of birthers in the south, right? They are found elsewhere, but the attitude is much more common in the southern areas of the nation.

That said, there was no racial or religious aspect to the polling.

249 Lynn B.  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:01:38am

re: #206 drcordell

Read this. You might learn something.
Source

Surely you jest. Quoting al Guardian on the motives of evangelicals, no less?

I may have a lot left to learn, d r, but I'm quite sure it won't be from you.

250 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:02:11am
251 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:02:23am

re: #231 MandyManners

I don't recall that the categories were broken down into race.

That is because "everyone knows" that they are white.

You see, "everyone knows" that "everyone" on the right makes vast, sweeping generalizations about others and is therefore bigoted against just about "everyone" else.

"Evereyone knows" these things. It is obvious and doesn't require proof. We are just all a bunch of bigots and we are just going to have to accept it.

252 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:02:32am

re: #236 reine.de.tout

Here's the poll.

I see no racial breakdown there.

Racial breakdown? Where did I mention race. I said THE SOUTH. Here is the geographic breakdown, the South is the only part of the entire nation where more than 5% of the population has any doubt about Obama's citizenship.
SOURCE

253 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:02:53am

re: #243 drcordell

"The Bigot is strong within this one."

254 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:02:55am

re: #231 MandyManners

Talking points in his avatar. Nice catch the other day.

255 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:02:59am

re: #246 Desert Dog

No- I don't post links to that spectrum. I find it flawed and reject it utterly.

256 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:03:06am

re: #240 MandyManners

2400 people who were willing to be polled by telephone were surveyed in all 50 states.

257 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:03:07am

re: #233 drcordell

Misconceptions? The raw data shows that the Nirther movement is firmly rooted in the South. I'm sure you're just going to shoot the messenger and discredit the Research 2k poll, but other pollsters will be asking Nirther questions soon. Guarantee you they find the exact same thing.

linky?

well, hey, if the south is somewhat more republican these days, and nirthers are mostly republican (though upthread some pointed out Hildabeast nirthers too), then there may be some more nirthers in the south percentagewise, but nirthers and Paulbots travel in the same socks and they're clearly available nationwide.

what planet are you from? do you ever leave that basement?

258 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:03:07am

re: #206 drcordell

Does it hurt when you think, Doc?

259 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:04:04am

re: #243 drcordell

Did I fucking say they did, dipshit? Go back and read what I have been saying. I said that there are fundamentalist Christian groups that believe Israel needs to control the holy land to facilitate the rapture. They support Israel based on THIS FACT ALONE, and it has nothing to do with tolerance/support of Jews themselves. This isn't complicated...

In No. 146, you asserted that the "Religious Right" believes that Israel must exist in order for the Christ to come again. Not all Christians believe this, even the ones on the Right.

260 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:04:10am

re: #255 Sharmuta

No- I don't post links to that spectrum. I find it flawed and reject it utterly.

Sorry Sharmuta, I thought that was you

261 DEZes  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:04:17am

re: #258 Desert Dog

You mean when he/she tries?
;)

262 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:04:39am

OK, let's tone down the personal insults and profanities, or I'll start deleting comments.

263 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:05:01am

When people make attacks that are parochial in nature, they open themselves up to parochial counter attacks.

Since Dr Cordell is informed on The South to the extent that facts need not be cited to support his/her assertions, perhaps Dr Cordell could inform us of where on this orb he/she lives.

264 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:05:22am

re: #92 Cato the Elder

Suggested Facebook page: "Can I find one million Republicans who don't by the birth certificate nonsense?"

I'd like to see the numbers.

Done. You can see my FB group here: [Link: www.facebook.com...]

265 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:05:23am

When Manimals attack.

266 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:05:32am

re: #247 MandyManners

LIAR.

Liar??? Here is the data to back it up. Because the sample size gets smaller as you breakdown via racial lines, the margin of error goes up. But still, the facts are right there in front of your face.
Source

Here are the money quotes:

According to Del Ali of Research 2000, if you excluded those people from the poll—if you look only at white voters in the South—the number of people who doubt Obama’s citizenship is higher than the 47 percent figure that has grabbed headlines today. “There was no deviation in the number of black, Hispanic, and other voters from one region of the country to another,” Ali told TWI. In the South, like everywhere else, the vast majority of non-white voters said that Obama was born in the United States; 97 percent of black voters, 87 percent of Hispanic voters, and 88 percent of other minorities. The extremely low overall percentage? That’s due to white Southerners, who dragged down the average with an extremely high level of doubt about Obama.
So what proportion of Southern whites doubt that Obama is an American citizen? While Ali did not release the racial breakdowns for the the South, and cautioned that the margin of error in the smaller sample of 720 people would be larger than the national margin of error (2 percent), the proportion of white Southern voters with doubts about their president’s citizenship may be higher than 70 percent. More than 30 percent of the people polled in the South were non-white, and very few of them told pollsters that they had questions about Obama’s citizenship. In order for white voters to drive the South’s “don’t know” number to 30 percent and it’s “born outside the United States” number to 23 percent, as many as three-quarters of Southern whites told pollsters that they didn’t know where Obama was born.

I'm not a liar.

267 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:05:50am

re: #252 drcordell

Racial breakdown? Where did I mention race. I said THE SOUTH. Here is the geographic breakdown, the South is the only part of the entire nation where more than 5% of the population has any doubt about Obama's citizenship.
SOURCE

IN YOUR NO. 217:

Go look at the poll that Charles posted earlier from Research 2k. 70% of the white voters in the South don't believe that Obama is legitimately the President. The South is the only place in America where the Nirthers are anything but the loon fringe.

268 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:05:53am

re: #243 >

drcordell

Did I fucking say they did, dipshit? Go back and read what I have been saying. I said that there are fundamentalist Christian groups that believe Israel needs to control the holy land to facilitate the rapture. They support Israel based on THIS FACT ALONE, and it has nothing to do with tolerance/support of Jews themselves. This isn't complicated...

You said "the religious right". No clarification, exceptions, exemptions.

re: #146 drcordell

You automatically assume that support for Israel means support of Jewish people. The religious right believes that Israel needs to be a Jewish state in order to facilitate the second coming of Christ. Support for Israel does not mean those people would vote for a Jewish elected official.

269 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:05:59am

2400 respondents is a ridiculously small sample.

270 im_gumby_damnit  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:06:01am

I know a lot of conservatives in Georgia and not one of them gives a rip about this birth certificate stuff. Nirthers may exist here, but I haven't met one. Also, in 20 years of living here, I've never met an antisemite. Not one.

No, pretty much all we're concerned with down here is providing a strong defense for our country, not being taxed into oblivion, keeping big government in check, worshipping (or not worshipping) the way we see fit and raising our families without outside interference. Just your basic, vanilla conservative beliefs.

271 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:06:04am

re: #217 drcordell

... 70% of the white voters in the South ...

You are a blatant liar.

272 Steffan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:06:07am

re: #195 SasquatchOnSteroids

Someone left the bigot running.
It's all over the floor.
Fortunately, I have Sham-wows.

Perhaps we should stop feeding the troll.

273 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:06:08am

re: #262 Charles

OK, let's tone down the personal insults and profanities, or I'll start deleting comments.

Yes, sir.

274 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:06:14am

re: #246 Desert Dog

Unfortunately, the dominating presence of two big parties over the last century or so has resulted in this polarization and little alternative. Hopefully we can see more open alternatives for people in the near future although the fact that only those two parties have really had the resources to really compete makes it less likely.

275 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:06:35am

re: #260 Desert Dog

Sorry Sharmuta, I thought that was you

It's better than a plain right/left dichotomy, but it's not the one I personally work with.

276 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:06:38am

re: #228 Charles

Look who just appeared on Nirthblogger Andrea Shea King's internet radio show: Jim DeMint and Alan Keyes.

Just in case anyone still doesn't get that top GOP politicians are deliberately pandering to this garbage.

Like I said yesterday - it's the same pathology that infested the Left in the form of countless conspiracy theories ranging from Bush's IQ through bribing of Supreme Court Justices through Diebold collusions in stealing elections to fact-free allegations of TANG irregularities - and that wound up costing the Democrats the midterms and subsequent Presidential elections which they otherwise should have easily carried. It was only when the Democratic leadership stuffed their crazy offspring back in the closet and nailed the door shut that they began winning over the large portion of the middle that had been driven away by the crazies.

The GOP needs to take this lesson to heart, and start focusing on issues. I'm really hoping they have a couple of tiger teams breaking down the health care bill into manageable pieces and developing a coherent, issues-based opposition to it during the break.

277 Gang of One  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:06:51am

re: #205 BigPapa

WTF is it with stereotyping people from the South nowadays?

Nowadays? I've seen this kind of provincial elitism for most of my life -- it's a narrative invented by post-modern 'writers' and the unholy trinity of the infoacamedia.

278 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:06:54am

re: #252 drcordell

Racial breakdown? Where did I mention race. I said THE SOUTH. Here is the geographic breakdown, the South is the only part of the entire nation where more than 5% of the population has any doubt about Obama's citizenship.
SOURCE

I would say you have not spent much time in the South lately. I have traveled extensively in the south and have found the racial tolerance there is considerably better than in the NE and the Midwest. In spite of the Redneck reputation, the "New South" is doing better than the large urban areas in the "Old North", by far.

279 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:06:59am

re: #262 Charles

Sorry.
Posted 271 before I saw this one of yours.

280 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:07:11am

re: #252 drcordell

Racial breakdown? Where did I mention race. I said THE SOUTH. Here is the geographic breakdown, the South is the only part of the entire nation where more than 5% of the population has any doubt about Obama's citizenship.

Here's where you brought in race:

SOURCE

re: #217 drcordell

Go look at the poll that Charles posted earlier from Research 2k. 70% of the white voters in the South don't believe that Obama is legitimately the President. The South is the only place in America where the Nirthers are anything but the loon fringe.

281 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:07:40am

2400 respondents is the kind of research that gets you New Coke.

282 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:07:41am

re: #258 Desert Dog

Does it hurt when you think, Doc?

think?

ROFLMAO

283 debutaunt  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:07:44am

re: #206 drcordell

Good lord.

284 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:08:05am

re: #259 MandyManners

In No. 146, you asserted that the "Religious Right" believes that Israel must exist in order for the Christ to come again. Not all Christians believe this, even the ones on the Right.

How can you glean "all Christians" from the term "Religious Right." The term "Religious Right" specifically refers to a specific political group of right-wing evangelical Christians.

285 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:08:06am

re: #243 drcordell

Did I fucking say they did, dipshit? Go back and read what I have been saying. I said that there are fundamentalist Christian groups that believe Israel needs to control the holy land to facilitate the rapture. They support Israel based on THIS FACT ALONE, and it has nothing to do with tolerance/support of Jews themselves. This isn't complicated...

Nice jump in "logic" there.

Care to back that up? Is there an authority who represents all of "them" who has made the assertion that that is their only basis for supporting Israel? Has that authority made that assertion without contradiction from any member of "them"?

286 Lynn B.  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:08:12am

re: #240 MandyManners

It was not broken down into race, you lying asshole.

And where did that 70% number come from?

South 47 23 30

That's "yes, he was born in the US" 47
no, he wasn't 23
don't know 30

In the south.

287 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:08:30am

re: #278 Desert Dog

I hadn't heard the "N" word in five years until I got to New Jersey for the first time.

288 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:08:58am

re: #284 drcordell

How can you glean "all Christians" from the term "Religious Right." The term "Religious Right" specifically refers to a specific political group of right-wing evangelical Christians.

No, it refers to me. And Mandy. And many others here who are religious, and right-leaning.

289 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:09:11am

Republicans become the LLL...
GOD FORGIVE ME FOR SENDING OUR TROOPS TO IRAQ! Congressman Walter Jones

290 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:09:34am

re: #286 Lynn B.

That's "yes, he was born in the US" 47
no, he wasn't 23
don't know 30

In the south.

Stop it with the facts. This is the internet.

/

291 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:09:57am

re: #268 reine.de.tout

drcordell

Again. The term "religious right" is a commonly-used term that specifically refers to the Bush coalition of "born again" evangelicals. It doesn't mean all Conservatives who believe in God. It means a specific demographic that Karl Rove focused Bush's campaign around. I apologize for assuming everyone understands this.

292 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:10:09am

re: #242 Sharmuta

You need to un-learn what you have learned. The left-right dichotomy is flawed. But the type of conservative that was Buckley and Senator Goldwater is more in-synch with the constrained vision. It is false that those who wish to use the might of government to push social issues are "conservatives". They are something else. Certainly they're in the party and call themselves conservatives, and we would call them "social conservatives", but they are not a part of the Goldwater mold.

Getting back to the dichotomy- it is the difference in a person's view of the proper role and scope of government that distinguishes between the two visions. One vision is suitable for a democratic republic, the other leads to socialism or other forms of authoritarianism where the boundary between the rule of law and the rule of men is broken.

Authoritarianism has historically shown itself to really hold no partisan link although a too-small government had also proven its own worth in the age of Standard Oil. Perhaps this 'vision' for a democratic republic would be more toward the center of that chart?

293 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:10:11am

re: #287 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hadn't heard the "N" word in five years until I got to New Jersey for the first time.

what exit?

294 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:10:25am

re: #286 Lynn B.

That's "yes, he was born in the US" 47
no, he wasn't 23
don't know 30

In the south.

So . . . that's 53%, not 70%, and it's not broken out by race.

295 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:10:30am

I can create an ad for my Face book group "Are there a million GOPers who think the "birth certificate" story is crap?", but I'm living on a dwindling savings account and can't afford it. Anyone maybe want to contribute?

296 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:10:39am

re: #293 brookly red

what exit?

Nice.

297 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:11:27am

re: #288 reine.de.tout

No, it refers to me. And Mandy. And many others here who are religious, and right-leaning.

It's not always about you bucko.

298 Erik The Red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:11:36am

re: #291 drcordell

Again. The term "religious right" is a commonly-used term that specifically refers to the Bush coalition of "born again" evangelicals. It doesn't mean all Conservatives who believe in God. It means a specific demographic that Karl Rove focused Bush's campaign around. I apologize for assuming everyone understands this.

Did you just pull that out of your ass? Please link that definition.

299 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:11:45am

re: #284 drcordell

How can you glean "all Christians" from the term "Religious Right." The term "Religious Right" specifically refers to a specific political group of right-wing evangelical Christians.


So conservative Catholics, as an example, are excluded from "Religious Right?"

If "right-wing evangelical Christians" are the only members of "Religious Right" then why use the term "Religious Right?"

300 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:11:48am

re: #291 drcordell

Again. The term "religious right" is a commonly-used term that specifically refers to the Bush coalition of "born again" evangelicals. It doesn't mean all Conservatives who believe in God. It means a specific demographic that Karl Rove focused Bush's campaign around. I apologize for assuming everyone understands this.

You apologize because we're stupid?

301 debutaunt  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:11:51am

re: #217 drcordell

Go look at the poll that Charles posted earlier from Research 2k. 70% of the white voters in the South don't believe that Obama is legitimately the President. The South is the only place in America where the Nirthers are anything but the loon fringe.

Are there any other polls that verify it? Any?

302 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:11:52am

La Z-

Kiddo, I recommend this book for you:

A Conflict of Visions: Ideological Origins of Political Struggles

And this recommendation goes for anyone curious about where the foundational differences in opinion start. Why is the left/right dichotomy still a decent indicator? Why do Europeans and Americans see things so differently? If you're curious, and prepared to think more than possibly any other book has made you think, then check out this book. Of all his own books, this is Thomas Sowell's personal favorite and the one most readers tell him changed their thinking.

303 wiffersnapper  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:12:03am

There's joke in there about Orly's first name meaning "o rly?!?!?!?!"

Something along the lines of "Obama's BC is real"

"o rly?!"

But I'm terrible at telling jokes.

304 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:12:07am

re: #252 drcordell

Racial breakdown? Where did I mention race. I said THE SOUTH. Here is the geographic breakdown, the South is the only part of the entire nation where more than 5% of the population has any doubt about Obama's citizenship.
SOURCE

You are still jumping to conclusions. Just answering that question negatively does not (to me, though perhaps others here will agree with you!) constitute nirtherism. I'm not sure the poll number add up at all, or you might have to conclude that 150% of white republicans in the south question Obama's citizenship. Frankly, the more I look at this poll, the less believable I find it.

305 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:12:24am

I shall take my hyperactive vocabulary out to buy some cartridges for the printer.

*cyan as I leave, hoping to rejuvenate magentalmanly nature*

306 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:12:24am

This thread is like fine champagne with a cat turd in it.

307 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:12:38am

re: #291 drcordell

Again. The term "religious right" is a commonly-used term that specifically refers to the Bush coalition of "born again" evangelicals. It doesn't mean all Conservatives who believe in God. It means a specific demographic that Karl Rove focused Bush's campaign around. I apologize for assuming everyone understands this.

Bigotry bolded.

308 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:13:21am

re: #193 drcordell

And most on the leftist side want to throw Israel to the wolves. So your point is? That some on the "religious right" support Israel for their own selfish reasons. Oh well. Maybe you can outlaw the religious right.

Also, there are many religious conservatives and non-religious conservatives who support Israel because they understand history.

309 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:13:24am

re: #230 JPL17

Thanks for the clarafication. Beaten on a techinicality.

310 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:13:30am

re: #278 Desert Dog

I would say you have not spent much time in the South lately. I have traveled extensively in the south and have found the racial tolerance there is considerably better than in the NE and the Midwest. In spite of the Redneck reputation, the "New South" is doing better than the large urban areas in the "Old North", by far.

Bullet holes in the "Welcome to Alabama" sign don't lie!

/Top Gear is a fun show though. q;

311 debutaunt  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:13:42am

re: #233 drcordell

Misconceptions? The raw data shows that the Nirther movement is firmly rooted in the South. I'm sure you're just going to shoot the messenger and discredit the Research 2k poll, but other pollsters will be asking Nirther questions soon. Guarantee you they find the exact same thing.

OK if we wait for verification, or is your personal guarantee enough?

312 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:13:49am

re: #306 Shug

This thread is like fine champagne with a cat turd in it.

it's a caper...

313 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:13:53am

re: #292 laZardo

Authoritarianism has historically shown itself to really hold no partisan link although a too-small government had also proven its own worth in the age of Standard Oil. Perhaps this 'vision' for a democratic republic would be more toward the center of that chart?

People on both the left and the right are capable of giving in to their inner authoritarian. This is why the American Constitution placed a system of checks and balances on power within the document to guard against this inclination in human nature.

314 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:14:06am

re: #293 brookly red

what exit?

Exit 7, IIRC. Bordentown.

Oh! Wait! I was in Southern New Jersey! Now I get it! The Doc is right!

All Southerners are racist rednecks. Even in Southern NJ!

315 Lynn B.  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:14:27am

re: #252 drcordell

Racial breakdown? Where did I mention race. I said THE SOUTH. Here is the geographic breakdown, the South is the only part of the entire nation where more than 5% of the population has any doubt about Obama's citizenship.
SOURCE


What you said was:

70% of the white voters in the South don't believe that Obama is legitimately the President.

Your own links don't support any of it. Not 70%, not "white," and not, actually "legitimately the President," either (that wasn't the question).

316 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:14:29am

re: #304 itellu3times

The poll is only marginally better than an internet poll. 2400 respondents, and only the people who were willing to answer questions on the telephone.

317 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:14:35am

re: #306 Shug

i'll have to take your word on that

318 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:14:47am

WOOT.

TV must've taken a hit from that storm.

Been drooling for a 50", better half wanted to save some $$$.

You are out of excuses now, sweetie pie.

Mwaahaaahaaahaaa.

Who has the goods on what to look for ?

319 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:14:55am

re: #306 Shug

This thread is like fine champagne with a cat turd in it.

The ol' turd in the punchbowl.

320 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:15:06am

re: #312 brookly red

it's a caper...

upding for Invasion of the Body Snatchers Reference.

321 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:15:12am

re: #291 drcordell

I see you don't have a response to my No. 267.

322 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:15:23am

re: #233 drcordell

Misconceptions? I'm sure you're just going to shoot the messenger and discredit the Research 2k poll, but other pollsters will be asking Nirther questions soon. Guarantee you they find the exact same thing.

The poll funded by Daily Kos?

QUESTION: Do you believe that America and Africa were once part of the same continent?
YES NO NOT SURE
ALL 42 26 32
MEN 41 29 30
WOMEN 43 23 34
DEM 51 16 33
REP 24 47 29
IND 44 23 33
OTH/REF 42 25 33
NON VOTERS 46 22 32
WHITE 35 30 35
BLACK 63 13 24
LATINO 55 19 26
OTHER/REF 56 19 25
18-29 48 20 32
30-44 40 28 32
45-59 43 24 33
60+ 39 30 31
NORTHEAST 50 18 32
SOUTH 32 37 31
MIDWEST 46 22 32
WEST 43 24 33
QUESTION: Do you believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States of America or not?
YES NO NOT SURE
ALL 77 11 12
MEN 75 12 13
WOMEN 79 10 11
DEM 93 4 3
REP 42 28 30
IND 83 8 9
OTH/REF 80 9 11
NON VOTERS 84 7 9
WHITE 71 14 15
BLACK 97 1 2
LATINO 87 6 7
OTHER/REF 88 6 6
18-29 88 4 8
30-44 72 14 14
45-59 82 8 10
60+ 69 17 14
NORTHEAST 93 4 3
SOUTH 47 23 30
MIDWEST 90 6 4
WEST 87 7 6
Demographics
MEN 1152 48%
WOMEN 1248 52%
DEMOCRATS 743 31%
REPUBLICANS 527 22%
INDEPENDENTS 601 25%
OTHER 119 5%
NON VOTERS 410 17%
WHITE 1703 71%
BLACK 337 14%
LATINO 285 12%
OTHER/REF 75 3%
18-29 431 18%
30-44 791 33%
45-59 698 29%
60+ 480 20%
NORTHEAST 504 21%
SOUTH 720 30%
MIDWEST 647 27%
WEST 529 22%
Methodology
DKOS WEEKLY NATIONAL POLL 2009

The Daily Kos weekly National Poll was conducted by Research 2000 July 27 through July 30, 2009. A total of 2400 adults nationally were interviewed by telephone. A cross-section of calls was made into each state in the country in order to reflect the adult population nationally.

The margin for error, according to standards customarily used by statisticians, is no more than plus or minus 2% percentage points. This means that there is a 95 percent probability that the "true" figure would fall within that range if the entire adult population were sampled. The margin for error is higher for any demographic subgroup, such as gender, race, or region.

GEOGRAPHIC BREAKDOWN:

Northeast:
DC, ME, VT, NY, MD, PA, CT, DE, MA, NH, RI, WV, NJ

South:
FL, NC, SC, AL, MS, GA, VA, TN, KY, LA, AR, TX

Midwest:
IL, MN, MI, OH, WI, IA, MO, KS, IN, ND, SD, OK, NE

West:
NM, CA, OR, WA, AK, HI, MT, ID, UT, NV, AZ, WY, CO


There's the poll. If you wanted to say it's a GOP problem you'd get no quarrel. However tying it to say it's a Southerner problem is xenophobic. I've heard people imply from this as proof that the South is still racist, because they love to say Southerners are racists.

323 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:15:27am

re: #318 SasquatchOnSteroids

Love my 55" SAMSUNG!

324 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:15:51am

re: #294 reine.de.tout

So . . . that's 53%, not 70%, and it's not broken out by race.

Again. Look at the overall data and the interviews given by the pollsters. Here is the link, again. Source

Research 2000 confirmed that nationwide, "the vast majority of non-white voters said that Obama was born in the United States; 97 percent of black voters, 87 percent of Hispanic voters, and 88 percent of other minorities." These percentages did not vary by geographic region. Thus, for the South's overall percentage of "Nirthers" to reach 53%, that means non-white hispanics must have had an extremely high percentage of nirthers to skew the statistics.

Nobody is claiming this to be an extremely precise statistic. But it's pretty obvious that of all geographic/ethnic groups, white southerners are by far the largest population of nirthers.

325 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:15:52am

re: #323 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Love my 55" SAMSUNG!

Best Buy ? Gimme some tips.

326 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:16:07am

re: #314 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

And South Central Los Angeles! IT ALL MAKES SENSE!

/lack of sleep is starting to fuck with my logic. @_@

327 debutaunt  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:16:07am

re: #258 Desert Dog

Does it hurt when you think, Doc?

dr likely stands for something else.

328 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:16:26am

The knuckle draggers at Free Republic have linked to this thread, with a bunch of comments calling me lots of lovely names. I've "lost my moral compass." I'm a "fool." I'm a "nitwit." I'm "shrill."

Oh yes, and they're linking to me and calling me names because they want to show how "irrelevant" I am. Heh.

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

329 VioletTiger  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:16:40am

re: #314 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Exit 7, IIRC. Bordentown.

Oh! Wait! I was in Southern New Jersey! Now I get it! The Doc is right!

All Southerners are racist rednecks. Even in Southern NJ!


Hope you are just kidding FBV.
I'm south of Exit 7 and SO not a racist.

330 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:16:45am

re: #294 reine.de.tout

So . . . that's 53%, not 70%, and it's not broken out by race.

At the worst it's 53%
At the best, 23%

30% don't know. They (or any portion thereof) could count as either

331 Erik The Red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:16:56am

re: #318 SasquatchOnSteroids

WOOT.

TV must've taken a hit from that storm.

Been drooling for a 50", better half wanted to save some $$$.

You are out of excuses now, sweetie pie.

Mwaahaaahaaahaaa.

Who has the goods on what to look for ?

If you go Plasma(my recommendation) Panasonic make the best. LCD, Samsung make a great product.

332 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:16:59am

re: #322 BigPapa

well then, show me america's nirth certifikate!

333 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:17:06am

re: #274 laZardo

Unfortunately, the dominating presence of two big parties over the last century or so has resulted in this polarization and little alternative. Hopefully we can see more open alternatives for people in the near future although the fact that only those two parties have really had the resources to really compete makes it less likely.

The way the party system here in the US developed is an interesting study. It has brought a stability to this country which is amazing. It does, however, tend to polarize the populace. In other democratic countries, where there are many parties, they trade their diversity for instability. When you have build coalitions, sometimes strange bedfellows develop.

334 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:17:11am

re: #325 SasquatchOnSteroids

Best Buy ? Gimme some tips.

Sears.

335 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:17:24am

Obama Gives Medal of Freedom to Anti-Semite

Currying favor with Jew-haters like Jeremiah Wright, Daniel Ortega, the Saudi princes and Hugo Chavez is apparently not enough for Barack Obama. Now he has given a Medal of Freedom to Mary Robinson the witch who organized the UN's own Krystallnacht in Durban several years ago. Here's an appropriate commentary by Jennifer Rubin. My only question is when are the Jews -- and friends of democracy and the West -- who are still supporting this president going to wake up?

Is Mary Robinson from the South?

336 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:17:36am

re: #313 Sharmuta

People on both the left and the right are capable of giving in to their inner authoritarian. This is why the American Constitution placed a system of checks and balances on power within the document to guard against this inclination in human nature.

Exactly what I meant by authoritarianism not being specifically partisan. Democrats wanting to impose Can/Euro-style National Health Care while the previous Republican administration was tempted with the Federal Marriage Amendment.

337 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:17:55am

re: #228 Charles

Look who just appeared on Nirthblogger Andrea Shea King's internet radio show: Jim DeMint and Alan Keyes.

Just in case anyone still doesn't get that top GOP politicians are deliberately pandering to this garbage.

They seem to be leaning that way, going from their cowardly ducking and dodging to some testing of the waters.

(Excuse me while I Adjust my new transparent aluminum hat for a moment) Ok, there.
Could this be a trap? If I were Zero I would wait for the GOP leadership to really bite on this in a big way, then reveal the original BC (remember, there is only one) at a press conference, preferably in Hawaii with Gov. Lingle at my side.

338 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:18:48am

re: #335 NJDhockeyfan

Obama Gives Medal of Freedom to Anti-Semite

Is Mary Robinson from the South?

she is now.

339 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:18:53am

Just remember - "everyone" understands how the Right really works except those who are members of it who -

a) are too stupid/ignorant to understand how it works
-or-
b) is a strategist who orchestrates the right yet denies it.

On other matters, when reffering to any and all people's who are not of "The Right" please be defferential to the fine and delicate cultural differences that make up the rich and diverse tapestry of thought, opinion and viewpoints in this world.

/

340 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:19:15am

re: #326 laZardo

And South Central Los Angeles! IT ALL MAKES SENSE!

/lack of sleep is starting to fuck with my logic. @_@

let us not forget South Bronx...

341 Noam Sayin'  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:19:24am

re: #318 SasquatchOnSteroids

I had a bunch of pages you could look at, but I just dumped those bookmarks a few days ago.

My search started with "720p vs. 1080p" in a google search.

342 Macker  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:19:31am

re: #87 Charles

I love reading the comments from Freepers who clicked the link to Orly Taitz's website, saw the phishing warning, then proceeded to the site anyway.

Those computers are probably quietly sending spam emails from Kenya right now. The irony is painful.

Especially if they use Internet Exploder to get there!

343 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:19:48am

People with more productive things to do don't tend to respond to telephoned political polls.

344 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:19:56am

re: #269 jaunte

2400 respondents is a ridiculously small sample.

It depends on how they were chosen. If they were selected completely at random from a pool of potential respondents who were uniformly distributed across the spectrum of possible responses, then the chances of obtaining a significantly different result from similar polling would only be about 2%.

The trick is in how the sampling was done. Was it truly random? Was the population it was drawn from truly representative of the population as a whole? Impossible to say, in this case, due to a lack of information.

Examples: if the pollster rejects certain answers - like Democrats responding "Nirhterism rock!" - then the polling isn't random; it is biased. Most bias problems are far more subtle, but they certainly exist. In the second case, if the population surveyed consists of subscribers to the New York Times it is reasonable to conclude that this group is representative of the population as a whole, although it may give an accurate representation of what that particular sub-population thinks, assuming there wasn't polling bias present as well.

Frankly, I'd like to see more data points before accepting these results. Some serious questions were raised yesterday regarding the provenance of this poll.

345 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:20:07am

re: #330 sattv4u2

At the worst it's 53%
At the best, 23%

30% don't know. They (or any portion thereof) could count as either

I think folks are assuming that 30% are in with the "not born in the US" portion of respondents.

346 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:20:16am

re: #331 Erik The Red

re: #334 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So much shit out there, it's gonna take some research.
Thanks.

347 im_gumby_damnit  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:20:34am

I'm pretty sure that "southerners" are not what's wrong with this country right now.

348 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:20:47am

re: #333 Desert Dog

The question that would remain then is how the political system would survive when thrown out of the balance it had been used to...

349 VioletTiger  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:20:50am

Could the entire fake nirthcert thing just be a trap to get the ullible to go to a site that will either infect your computer or sell you bogus virus software?

350 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:21:07am

re: #335 NJDhockeyfan

Obama Gives Medal of Freedom to Anti-Semite


Is Mary Robinson from the South?

Robinson’s post-Durban record is little better. On April 15, Robinson’s commission voted on a decision that condoned suicide bombings as a legitimate means to establish Palestinian statehood...

351 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:21:47am

re: #332 itellu3times

well then, show me america's nirth certifikate!

Image: File:Us_declaration_independence.jpg

352 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:22:12am

re: #347 im_gumby_damnit

I'm pretty sure that "southerners" are not what's wrong with this country right now.

And what is wrong? Any opinion that you would like to share?

353 Erik The Red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:22:19am

re: #346 SasquatchOnSteroids

re: #334 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So much shit out there, it's gonna take some research.
Thanks.

Do it. Get what you think is best. I did my research a few years ago. I will be doing it again in a few months time again. I have had both and preferred plasma. Better for sports.

354 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:22:24am

re: #281 jaunte

2400 respondents is the kind of research that gets you New Coke.

See my post above; it depends on how you do your sampling. It is more than sufficient to guarantee accurate results relative to the general population if sampling is done properly. Although proper sampling can be a difficult task.

355 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:22:53am

re: #347 im_gumby_damnit

I'm pretty sure that "southerners" are not what's wrong with this country right now.

unless you are talking about The South side of Chicago

356 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:22:56am

re: #324 drcordell

Again. Look at the overall data and the interviews given by the pollsters. Here is the link, again. Source

Research 2000 confirmed that nationwide, "the vast majority of non-white voters said that Obama was born in the United States; 97 percent of black voters, 87 percent of Hispanic voters, and 88 percent of other minorities." These percentages did not vary by geographic region. Thus, for the South's overall percentage of "Nirthers" to reach 53%, that means non-white hispanics must have had an extremely high percentage of nirthers to skew the statistics.

Nobody is claiming this to be an extremely precise statistic. But it's pretty obvious that of all geographic/ethnic groups, white southerners are by far the largest population of nirthers.


Did you just bury your entire argument?

You cite statistics that you're shown not to exist and then make that statement. You say the numbers don't make an "extremely precise statistic" because no such statistic exists and then you fall back on "obvious" after saying the precision doesn't5 exist to carry the assertion.

Can't you see that you are a biggot accusing "those people" of biggotry?


Wake the fuck up.

357 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:23:03am

re: #335 NJDhockeyfan

Obama Gives Medal of Freedom to Anti-Semite

Is Mary Robinson from the South?

Looks like the south end of Killala Bay, Ireland.

358 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:23:22am

re: #346 SasquatchOnSteroids

re: #334 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So much shit out there, it's gonna take some research.
Thanks.

I highly recommend "AVSforum.com" It's basically a bunch of people who spend all their time on the internet bickering about TV's instead of politics. I used their recommendations to pick out my flat screen. FWIW I bought a Samsung LCD, as I was able to get a real good deal on it at the time. If I were choosing today I'd go with either a Pioneer Kuro Plasma or a Panny Plasma. LCD black levels are disappointing.

359 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:24:15am

Ah, political poling the great numbers game of misdirection and vague questions with direct answers.

Q1. "Was ___ born inside the United States?"
Q2. "Is ___ an American Citizen?"

The answers to Q1 and Q2 can be No and Yes respectfully and still be correct. "I don't know" is a simple honest answer that can be blown out of proportion by agendas. Really, does anyone know where ___ was born off the top of their heads.

By the way, ___ does not = Obama. Just throw random names in there for a little extra fun.

360 Macker  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:24:29am

re: #356 karmic_inquisitor

Did you just bury your entire argument?

You cite statistics that you're shown not to exist and then make that statement. You say the numbers don't make an "extremely precise statistic" because no such statistic exists and then you fall back on "obvious" after saying the precision doesn't5 exist to carry the assertion.

Can't you see that you are a biggot accusing "those people" of biggotry?

Wake the fuck up.

There, fixed that for ya!

361 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:24:37am

re: #344 SixDegrees

One problem with polling data is the alacrity with which the results are extended by assumption to cover the opinions of millions of unpolled individuals. The tendency for those who self-select out of the process to have a different pov that those who remain can skew the results quite a bit, too.

362 Egregious Philbin  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:24:45am

One of my favorite nutjob freepers goes by the name "Eternal Vigilance", he is Alan Keyes right hand man/ass kisser. He is all over the threads on this issue. Of course, he is all over trying to get people to join Alan's new party, so that Alan will have enough money to buy dinner tonight. Alan ran for president in the last election, but don't worry, the odds of you ever meeting the 300 odd people that voted for him are pretty slim.

363 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:24:47am

re: #353 Erik The Red

Do it. Get what you think is best. I did my research a few years ago. I will be doing it again in a few months time again. I have had both and preferred plasma. Better for sports.

Sports are most critical. thanx for that.

364 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:24:53am

re: #291 drcordell

I apologize for assuming everyone understands this.

Attitude is everything. Condescension is nothing.

365 JHW  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:25:16am

re: #343 jaunte

People with more productive things to do don't tend to respond to telephoned political polls.

True, and I'd bet a lot of poll respondents are less than absolutely candid in answering questions to pollsters.

366 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:26:05am

re: #328 Charles

I bet they looove drcordell.

367 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:26:10am

re: #291 drcordell

Again. The term "religious right" is a commonly-used term that specifically refers to the Bush coalition of "born again" evangelicals. It doesn't mean all Conservatives who believe in God. It means a specific demographic that Karl Rove focused Bush's campaign around. I apologize for assuming everyone understands this.

drinking Andrew Sullivan koolaid? yuck.

368 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:26:37am

re: #365 JHW

True, and I'd bet a lot of poll respondents are less than absolutely candid in answering questions to pollsters.

I am taking a poll. I am thirsty. What beer should I buy?

369 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:26:40am

re: #342 Macker

Especially if they use Internet Exploder to get there!

An interesting, anecdotal web observation: my web page reports which browsers have visited, by percentage, and IE has ruled the roost for years. They have been declining as Firefox has gained in the last couple of years, dropping to around 75% or so, with runner-up Firefox a clear second and a host of lesser-known browsers making up the remainder.

Yesterday I checked this stat for the first time in several months, and was surprised to see that IE has dropped to 43%, with nearly all of the remainder taken up by Firefox. I'll be interested to see if this holds up over the next month or two; if so, it's a real plunge in IE popularity and a real surge in Firefox acceptance.

Make of it what you will.

370 Noam Sayin'  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:27:16am

re: #363 SasquatchOnSteroids

And don't bother with 720p resolution. Much more stuff coming in 1080, anyway.

I'd second the suggestions for plasma, particularly if you're a gamer.

I also once heard somewhere that only three companies make the screens, so you don't need to be as worried about brand names. I don't know how true that is anymore.

371 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:27:41am
372 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:28:03am

re: #356 karmic_inquisitor

Did you just bury your entire argument?

You cite statistics that you're shown not to exist and then make that statement. You say the numbers don't make an "extremely precise statistic" because no such statistic exists and then you fall back on "obvious" after saying the precision doesn't5 exist to carry the assertion.

Can't you see that you are a biggot accusing "those people" of biggotry?

Wake the fuck up.

The basic assertion that I made way up at the beginning of the thread was this: that the Nirther movement is by and large being furthered by Southern whites specifically. Then I got all sorts of "prove it" comments, so I used the data at hand. I'm not saying that the 70% stat is completely infallible. But it is so completely obvious from looking at the numbers that the South is the base for Nirtherism. Every other geographic region is polling at well under 10% for belief that Obama isn't a citizen.

You can keep attacking R2K, you can attack the poll, and you can attack me. But that doesn't change the blatantly obvious fact that it's white Southerners refusing to accept the legitimacy of a black President that is driving the Nirther movement. Got any facts that disprove that assertion? Didn't think so.

373 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:28:06am

re: #368 brookly red

I am taking a poll. I am thirsty. What beer should I buy?

One for me.

374 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:28:35am

re: #291 drcordell

Again. The term "religious right" is a commonly-used term that specifically refers to the Bush coalition of "born again" evangelicals. It doesn't mean all Conservatives who believe in God. It means a specific demographic that Karl Rove focused Bush's campaign around. I apologize for assuming everyone understands this.

You are still wrong in associating that base of several million with the nutjob groups and opinions of a couple of thousand, as well as overestimating the importance of that bas to the general electorate.

375 JHW  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:28:48am

re: #368 brookly red

376 debutaunt  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:28:59am

re: #356 karmic_inquisitor

Did you just bury your entire argument?

You cite statistics that you're shown not to exist and then make that statement. You say the numbers don't make an "extremely precise statistic" because no such statistic exists and then you fall back on "obvious" after saying the precision doesn't5 exist to carry the assertion.

Can't you see that you are a biggot accusing "those people" of biggotry?


Wake the fuck up.

"Extremely precise" - HAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

377 Noam Sayin'  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:29:40am

Too nice out to not be on a scooter.

See y'all later.

378 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:29:43am

re: #336 laZardo

Exactly what I meant by authoritarianism not being specifically partisan. Democrats wanting to impose Can/Euro-style National Health Care while the previous Republican administration was tempted with the Federal Marriage Amendment.

Terms and labels are so over used they're pointless. Strip them away and look at the person's positions based on the scale of the rule of law vs. the rule of men. The dichotomy of the visions is presented in terms of black and white, while Dr Sowell points out that in application, it's really more of a degree or scale still- as we would expect. Humans are complex and so too would be defining each person's vision.

It has helped me, however, is spotting the point at which two opinions start to split. First it's important to note that most people are starting from a perspective of wanting to help. It's all in the conclusions where we disagree, but unless we're talking about real authoritarianism, it's important to realize our ideological opponents are not evil.

One of the things I hope will come out of more people looking into that book is a return to a more civil level of political discourse. There will always be conflicts, but much of the current levels of rhetoric are troubling and ugly.

379 JHW  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:29:49am

re: #375 JHW

Anything but a lite beer, I'll take a Guinness.

380 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:30:13am

re: #358 drcordell

I highly recommend "AVSforum.com" It's basically a bunch of people Exuberant Monkeys who spend all their time on the internet bickering about TV's and recommending AV cables instead of politics.

So how did that advice do ya for? Many there don't like professionals to post there for some strange reason.

381 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:30:49am

re: #379 JHW

I can't drink a Guinness to save my life. It's like frickin' "Beer Syrup".

382 Erik The Red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:31:05am

re: #370 Noam Sayin'

And don't bother with 720p resolution. Much more stuff coming in 1080, anyway.

I'd second the suggestions for plasma, particularly if you're a gamer.

I also once heard somewhere that only three companies make the screens, so you don't need to be as worried about brand names. I don't know how true that is anymore.

I agree about the plasma. I have also heard about there only being a few makers. But, I have also heard that the brand names pass down the tech. as it gets better. I would stick with Panasonic for plasma and Samsung for LCD.

383 debutaunt  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:31:19am

re: #368 brookly red

I am taking a poll. I am thirsty. What beer should I buy?

Do you want any old answer or a precise answer?

384 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:31:37am

re: #361 jaunte

One problem with polling data is the alacrity with which the results are extended by assumption to cover the opinions of millions of unpolled individuals. The tendency for those who self-select out of the process to have a different pov that those who remain can skew the results quite a bit, too.

As noted, it's a question of sampling. The 2% accuracy of the poll deduced from the 2000+ respondents is entirely valid - IF the sampling was truly random and drawn from a representative population. Issues raised yesterday regarding apparent biases held by the polling company call into question whether both of these assumptions are valid. If either is wrong, then it is simply impossible to evaluate whether the results can be extended to the population at large, but it's a safe bet they cannot be.

385 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:32:04am

drcordell:
you linked to this document, as "source", which makes some statements about the breakdown of who was polled. It says in the south 30% of those polled were non-white, which would be good to know, because that is about the percentage of non-whites overall in the south.

However, IceWeasel linked yesterday to this source, and nowhere in there does it show that in the south, 30% of those polled were non-white.

So in the article you linked to - where did they get that number

386 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:32:20am

re: #383 debutaunt

Do you want any old answer or a precise answer?

my local bodaga has a good selection.

387 Lynn B.  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:32:20am

re: #324 drcordell

Again. Look at the overall data and the interviews given by the pollsters. Here is the link, again. Source

Research 2000 confirmed that nationwide, "the vast majority of non-white voters said that Obama was born in the United States; 97 percent of black voters, 87 percent of Hispanic voters, and 88 percent of other minorities." These percentages did not vary by geographic region. Thus, for the South's overall percentage of "Nirthers" to reach 53%, that means non-white hispanics must have had an extremely high percentage of nirthers to skew the statistics.

Nobody is claiming this to be an extremely precise statistic. But it's pretty obvious that of all geographic/ethnic groups, white southerners are by far the largest population of nirthers.

You've got to be kidding. Seriously. Hopefully you don't need to understand statistics much in whatever line of work (?) you do. That analysis is just whacked beyond belief.

388 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:32:48am

re: #381 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I can't drink a Guinness to save my life. It's like frickin' "Beer Syrup".

You just haven't had good Guinness

389 Erik The Red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:33:31am

re: #388 Shug

You just haven't had good Guinness

There is such a thing as a "Good Guinness"///

390 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:33:40am

re: #384 SixDegrees

Even leaving aside possible biases in the polling company, the representative population is never completely representative, because of the people who self-select out of the polling.

391 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:34:19am

re: #389 Erik The Red

There is such a thing as a "Good Guinness"///

that's like saying there is no such thing as good Sex

392 JHW  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:34:21am

re: #381 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hear you, that's about the only kind I like is the stouts or the "heavy" kind. Very few beer drinkers I know like them, they prefer Pilsners or maybe the pale micro-brews. I'm not much of a beer drinker myself.

393 Egregious Philbin  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:34:27am

Tiger beer from Singapore, its tasty.

394 Steffan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:34:29am

re: #201 jaunte

Check out the note on citizenship at the bottom.

FWIW, I browsed the Republic of Kenya website and found their constitution (warning, pdf file).

The section on citizenship starts at section 87.

395 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:35:22am

re: #380 BigPapa

So how did that advice do ya for? Many there don't like professionals to post there for some strange reason.

I like my TV considering when I bought it (2 years ago) and the budget that I had at the time. I have a 42" Sammy LCD, which had consistently solid reviews on AVS for an LCD. This was right when the first generation of LED LCD's were coming out, and were completely out of my price range.

396 Erik The Red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:35:26am

re: #391 Shug

that's like saying there is no such thing as good Sex

Dumbass me. I meant it the other way around. "Bad Guinness"

397 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:35:47am

re: #378 Sharmuta

I've greenhearted your recommendation post for reference. Of course, while I do agree that the seas of rhetoric should calm down, 'labeling' is an inevitable facet of human nature and something that must still be played upon...

398 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:36:13am

re: #396 Erik The Red

Dumbass me. I meant it the other way around. "Bad Guinness"

too late, yer cut off...

399 shortshrift  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:36:24am

Ahem. Would someone please tell me what GAZE means at the end of a comment?

400 BlueRoses  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:36:38am

re: #10 brookly red

Funny thing. I can think of 3 nirthers I know personally (OK, I live in NYC), all 3 are white, single, liberal women over 40 that supported Hillary. This may be more than a Republican thing.

Hush. Don't you know it is fun to bang the Repubs over the head with this craziness?

401 Erik The Red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:36:54am

re: #398 brookly red

too late, yer cut off...

Oh well, shit happens. Won't be the last time. :)

402 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:36:59am

re: #291 drcordell

Again. The term "religious right" is a commonly-used term that specifically refers to the Bush coalition of "born again" evangelicals. It doesn't mean all Conservatives who believe in God. It means a specific demographic that Karl Rove focused Bush's campaign around. I apologize for assuming everyone understands this.

And here I thought it it was nirthed in the 1960's and became somewhat influential in the 1970's.

403 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:37:30am

re: #393 Egregious Philbin

Tiger beer from Singapore, its tasty.

Bought a few out a vending machine in Japan years ago. They were a little bitter to my liking but refreshing on a hot summers day in Iwakuni, Japan.

3000th

404 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:37:33am

2:36 AM and heading to bed.

Posted a photoblog (of sorts) on my #13, and my favorite photo from the folder on my art site.

Both links are on my Twitter if you'd like to browse.

Cheers!

405 CynicalConservative  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:37:46am

re: #399 shortshrift

Ahem. Would someone please tell me what GAZE means at the end of a comment?

Short answer is it means ignoring the poster referenced.

LGF Dictionary -- [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Lots of great stuff in there.

406 Lynn B.  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:37:47am

re: #345 reine.de.tout

I think folks are assuming that 30% are in with the "not born in the US" portion of respondents.

I suspect that a lot (not all) of the people who answer "don't know" just haven't been paying attention to this birther thing. Believe it or not, I actually know such people. If they're even aware of it, they consider it white noise and ignore it and at this point they just don't care. So I wouldn't assume they're all sekretly in the "no" category.

/just not keeping up with this thread...

407 laZardo  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:38:06am

re: #399 shortshrift

Ahem. Would someone please tell me what GAZE means at the end of a comment?

Seconded before heading off. Got one from realwest a few days back and all I know is that it's bad.

408 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:38:36am

re: #397 laZardo

I've greenhearted your recommendation post for reference. Of course, while I do agree that the seas of rhetoric should calm down, 'labeling' is an inevitable facet of human nature and something that must still be played upon...

Agreed. Labels are not wrong per se. They help us distinguish.

409 Erik The Red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:38:42am

re: #399 shortshrift

Ahem. Would someone please tell me what GAZE means at the end of a comment?


GAZE
To glare with silent disapproval at a troll who has intentionally attempted to derail a topic. A sign of non-acknowledgment of a particularly offensive or inflammatory post, and a sign to other commenters not to "feed the troll" (pay attention to a disruptive commenter). Usually written all capitals.

410 doppelganglander  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:39:12am

re: #385 reine.de.tout

drcordell:
you linked to this document, as "source", which makes some statements about the breakdown of who was polled. It says in the south 30% of those polled were non-white, which would be good to know, because that is about the percentage of non-whites overall in the south.

However, IceWeasel linked yesterday to this source, and nowhere in there does it show that in the south, 30% of those polled were non-white.

So in the article you linked to - where did they get that number

That's what I was about to ask. I read that article 3 times, and I've looked at the Research2000 site and the available internals of the poll. Nowhere does it say that 30% of those polled in the south were nonwhite.

I am highly suspicious of the close correlation between the percentage of doubting Republicans and the percentage of doubting Southerners. Since there is no breakdown of demographics within each region, there is no way to know if a higher percentage of Southern respondents were Republicans (compared to their actual numbers in the region). Similarly, maybe the respondents in the rest of the country took in a disproportionately high number of Democrats. Although the percentages may come out accurately on a nationwide basis, there's no telling if they are accurate on a regional basis.

411 Lynn B.  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:40:23am

re: #335 NJDhockeyfan

Obama Gives Medal of Freedom to Anti-Semite

Currying favor with Jew-haters like Jeremiah Wright, Daniel Ortega, the Saudi princes and Hugo Chavez is apparently not enough for Barack Obama. Now he has given a Medal of Freedom to Mary Robinson the witch who organized the UN's own Krystallnacht in Durban several years ago. Here's an appropriate commentary by Jennifer Rubin. My only question is when are the Jews -- and friends of democracy and the West -- who are still supporting this president going to wake up?



It's a sin.

412 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:40:47am

re: #395 drcordell

I like my TV considering when I bought it (2 years ago) and the budget that I had at the time. I have a 42" Sammy LCD, which had consistently solid reviews on AVS for an LCD. This was right when the first generation of LED LCD's were coming out, and were completely out of my price range.

Do you pay attention to who advertises and sells on AVS? I'm not saying Sammys are junk, but two years ago Pio Kuros and even Fujitsus were still king and LCD was severely behind. Panasonic was and still is a good line at a whole but is not the best. LCD has closed the gap substantially and now makes larger displays so it's a much more viable option.

LED costs are what large LCD's were two years ago, getting affordable.

413 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:41:00am

re: #387 Lynn B.

You've got to be kidding. Seriously. Hopefully you don't need to understand statistics much in whatever line of work (?) you do. That analysis is just whacked beyond belief.

What is the conclusion you would draw from that data? I really don't see what other conclusion could be drawn. Nationwide, less than 15% of non-whites have any doubt about Obama's citizenship. Nationwide excluding the South, less than 15% of the general population have any doubt about Obama's citizenship. Within the South this number suddenly jumps up to 53%. How else can that be explained?

414 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:41:47am

re: #372 drcordell

The basic assertion that I made way up at the beginning of the thread was this: that the Nirther movement is by and large being furthered by Southern whites specifically. Then I got all sorts of "prove it" comments, so I used the data at hand. I'm not saying that the 70% stat is completely infallible. But it is so completely obvious from looking at the numbers that the South is the base for Nirtherism. Every other geographic region is polling at well under 10% for belief that Obama isn't a citizen.

You can keep attacking R2K, you can attack the poll, and you can attack me. But that doesn't change the blatantly obvious fact that it's white Southerners refusing to accept the legitimacy of a black President that is driving the Nirther movement. Got any facts that disprove that assertion? Didn't think so.

Yes -

The group "white Southerners" is compsed of people who are (1) White and (2) reside in "The South".

The poll in question cites that, in "The West", there are 7% who say that Obama was not born in the United States.

By definition, those 7% are not residents of The South. Furthermore, the leading nirther site "FreeRepublic" is based in California (as is a variety of "Creation Science" organizations) which is part of "The West"

For your assertion to be "fact" then no one of that 7% in "The West" can be white - it must be all non-white for your assertion about Whites and The South to hold. All I have to produce only one "driver" of nirtherism who is white and resides outside of "The South" to disprove your "fact."

The poll's own results coupled with the existence of FreeRepublic disproves your assertion.

415 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:42:18am

re: #389 Erik The Red

There is such a thing as a "Good Guinness"///

Guinness is ambrosia...nectar of the gods...by far the tastiest stout on earth and in the top 5 for tastiest beer on earth too.

416 VioletTiger  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:43:11am

re: #406 Lynn B.

I suspect that a lot (not all) of the people who answer "don't know" just haven't been paying attention to this birther thing. Believe it or not, I actually know such people. If they're even aware of it, they consider it white noise and ignore it and at this point they just don't care. So I wouldn't assume they're all sekretly in the "no" category.

/just not keeping up with this thread...


I also wonder how much of the difference has to do with how informed they are on it. I have yet to meet a nirther. Could be because most of my friends don't spend any time on political blogs or because it has not been in the news much at all around here. It actually WAS on TV in Texas. I am there several times a month so I hear it down there.

417 im_gumby_damnit  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:43:30am

re: #352 Walter L. Newton

Mr. Newton,

That would be a rather long list. For starters, the most liberal person in the Senate was elected President and is now running the country with control of Congress. Government spending as a percentage of GDP has increased at at shocking rate. The money supply has increased at an even more shocking rate. Our foreign policy is a catastrophe -- we don't speak up when young women are executed by snipers in Iran for attending peaceful, pro-democratic rallies and we side with Chavez and Castro against an impoverished democracy in Central America (Honduras) that ejected a would-be dictator.

I'm out of breath now.

418 Racer X  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:43:31am

Loves me some Guinness. With a shot of whiskey on the side is even better.

419 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:43:48am

Sophisticated demographic data has recently convinced several advertisers to sell their products and services to me in Spanish. In like fashion, las encuestas políticas son mierda.

420 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:44:36am

Did someone say polls? [Link: www.rasmussenreports.com...]

Seventy-six percent (76%) of U.S. voters now think President Obama is at least somewhat liberal. Forty-eight percent (48%) say he is very liberal, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. This marks the highest finding to date on the question and is a five-point increase in the number who say the president is very liberal from a month ago. … Seventeen percent (17%) of voters say the president is moderate, while only six percent (6%) believe he is conservative.

Conservative? they must have asked Andrew Sullivan.

anyway...

The tension is palpable between where Obama wants to govern and where the voters are. Obama keeps insisting on legislation — nationalized health care being the most obvious — which the public really doesn’t want or need. Like an aluminum siding salesman, he keeps hawking expensive junk, and like a wary homeowner, the public would rather he get out of their living rooms.
421 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:44:51am

re: #414 karmic_inquisitor

Yes -

The group "white Southerners" is compsed of people who are (1) White and (2) reside in "The South".

The poll in question cites that, in "The West", there are 7% who say that Obama was not born in the United States.

By definition, those 7% are not residents of The South. Furthermore, the leading nirther site "FreeRepublic" is based in California (as is a variety of "Creation Science" organizations) which is part of "The West"

For your assertion to be "fact" then no one of that 7% in "The West" can be white - it must be all non-white for your assertion about Whites and The South to hold. All I have to produce only one "driver" of nirtherism who is white and resides outside of "The South" to disprove your "fact."

The poll's own results coupled with the existence of FreeRepublic disproves your assertion.

I have to admit, I'm totally confused after reading your post. What do the 7% of respondents in the West have to do with those polled in the South? Again, my point is this. If nationwide the percentage of Nirthers was

422 JHW  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:44:59am

An Irishman tells Americans how to drink a Guinness or "How not to be taken for a dumb tourist"
How to survive your first Guinness (in an Irish pub)

423 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:45:10am

re: #417 im_gumby_damnit

Mr. Newton,

That would be a rather long list. For starters, the most liberal person in the Senate was elected President and is now running the country with control of Congress. Government spending as a percentage of GDP has increased at at shocking rate. The money supply has increased at an even more shocking rate. Our foreign policy is a catastrophe -- we don't speak up when young women are executed by snipers in Iran for attending peaceful, pro-democratic rallies and we side with Chavez and Castro against an impoverished democracy in Central America (Honduras) that ejected a would-be dictator.

I'm out of breath now.

Good answer, but don't worry, Barry is going to fix all our boo-boo's :)

424 avanti  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:45:30am

re: #230 JPL17

SOURCE: [Link: online.wsj.com...]

Since the location of Obama's birth apparently does make a difference in whether he is a statutory "natural born citizen," please let's all refrain from making the argument, "he could have been born on Mars." The fact is Obama couldn't have been born on Mars and still be President.

Nirthers are nothing but trouble. Let's not add fuel to their fire by making legal arguments that can be shot down.

So you are saying a child born of a citizen that was 17 years old at the time her giving birth would not confer citizenship in the USA if she happened to be in Canada on the day of birth ? Seems odd to me. That's less then the five years beyond her 14th birthday.

425 im_gumby_damnit  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:46:11am

re: #388 Shug

I had Guinness ice cream at a restaurant once. Before you ask, it tasted just like Guinness ice cream. And yes. I liked it. :)

426 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:46:22am

re: #417 im_gumby_damnit

Mr. Newton,

That would be a rather long list. For starters, the most liberal person in the Senate was elected President and is now running the country with control of Congress. Government spending as a percentage of GDP has increased at at shocking rate. The money supply has increased at an even more shocking rate. Our foreign policy is a catastrophe -- we don't speak up when young women are executed by snipers in Iran for attending peaceful, pro-democratic rallies and we side with Chavez and Castro against an impoverished democracy in Central America (Honduras) that ejected a would-be dictator.

I'm out of breath now.

Breathless is more like it.

427 VioletTiger  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:46:23am

re: #413 drcordell

What is the conclusion you would draw from that data? I really don't see what other conclusion could be drawn. Nationwide, less than 15% of non-whites have any doubt about Obama's citizenship. Nationwide excluding the South, less than 15% of the general population have any doubt about Obama's citizenship. Within the South this number suddenly jumps up to 53%. How else can that be explained?

The data in this poll will only tell you so much. You are filling in the blanks on your own. There is no question on the REASON why they nirth, just that they nirth. Anything else is your conjecture. Could it be race--yes. Could it be because they hear more about it and so know it even is an issue--yes. Could it be some other reason--yes. I cannot say for sure and neither can you because there is no data on this.

428 Erik The Red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:46:34am

re: #418 Racer X

Loves me some Guinness. With a shot of whiskey on the side is even better.

Any beer with a shot of scotch is good.

429 BlueRoses  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:47:54am

re: #45 Charles

This one is also an apologist for fascists and the John Birch Society:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Alrighty then. Thanks Charles.

430 Erik The Red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:48:47am

I am off to fetch my girls from the airport. It has been a long 6 weeks. Thank you Lizards, for also being family. I may have gone crazy if it were not for you.

Stay Scaly and I will see you all in a few days time.

431 doppelganglander  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:48:55am

re: #413 drcordell

What is the conclusion you would draw from that data? I really don't see what other conclusion could be drawn. Nationwide, less than 15% of non-whites have any doubt about Obama's citizenship. Nationwide excluding the South, less than 15% of the general population have any doubt about Obama's citizenship. Within the South this number suddenly jumps up to 53%. How else can that be explained?

The number is not 53%. The number is 23%. 30% don't know. You cannot assume they are nirthers. You continue to use the figure of 53%, which tells me you are arguing in bad faith and should be ignored.

432 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:49:30am

drcordell Campbell

Southern Whites Just As Bigoted Even When
Closed Your Eyes I Apologize
To Any One Who Can Truly Say
He Has Found A Southern Way

433 insanity police  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:49:48am

Nirthers must be Obama's biggest supporters because they are going to win him the next election. Normal people see the racism, and idiocy in the nirther movement and will hold that against Republicans, in addition to giving Obama sympathy.

434 Lynn B.  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:50:01am

re: #416 VioletTiger

I also wonder how much of the difference has to do with how informed they are on it. I have yet to meet a nirther. Could be because most of my friends don't spend any time on political blogs or because it has not been in the news much at all around here. It actually WAS on TV in Texas. I am there several times a month so I hear it down there.

I've met exactly one. At the local McCain campaign headquarters a few days before the election. I made a sarcastic remark about them while stuffing envelopes and got jumped on by a nutcase who, it turns out, had been putting up little post-it notes all over the office with quotes from Obama's book "proving" he was a secret Muslim. Everyone else suddenly got very busy looking at their hands, so I dropped it.

435 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:50:32am

re: #431 doppelganglander

The number is not 53%. The number is 23%. 30% don't know. You cannot assume they are nirthers. You continue to use the figure of 53%, which tells me you are arguing in bad faith and should be ignored.

73 % do not believe Obama wasn't born in the USA

according to the data

436 debutaunt  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:50:39am

re: #431 doppelganglander

The number is not 53%. The number is 23%. 30% don't know. You cannot assume they are nirthers. You continue to use the figure of 53%, which tells me you are arguing in bad faith and should be ignored.

Well sure, if you insist on being all extremely precise about it.

437 Steffan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:51:25am

re: #385 reine.de.tout

drcordell:
you linked to this document, as "source", which makes some statements about the breakdown of who was polled. It says in the south 30% of those polled were non-white, which would be good to know, because that is about the percentage of non-whites overall in the south.

However, IceWeasel linked yesterday to this source, and nowhere in there does it show that in the south, 30% of those polled were non-white.

So in the article you linked to - where did they get that number

They pulled it out of their collective asses, of course.

I haven't seen any sites quoted by drcordell that I'd trust.

438 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:52:36am

re: #406 Lynn B.

I suspect that a lot (not all) of the people who answer "don't know" just haven't been paying attention to this birther thing. Believe it or not, I actually know such people. If they're even aware of it, they consider it white noise and ignore it and at this point they just don't care. So I wouldn't assume they're all sekretly in the "no" category.

/just not keeping up with this thread...

I agree with you, but for purposes of this particular poll, the default assumption seems to have been that those who answered "don't know" are in with the "NO" group.

439 im_gumby_damnit  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:52:58am

re: #426 drcordell

Troll. Yawn.

440 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:53:11am

I didn't posit a reason for nirthing in that post, just the fact that most nirthers appear to be Southern whites. IMHO, nirtherism is just a way of trying to cope with the fact that America is changing. By 2040 America could very possibly be a minority-white nation. This scares the shit out of some people.

Furthermore, this kind of shit is a pretty normal response to a Democrat of any race being elected as President. Remember the 90's after Clinton was elected? There were certainly a pretty vocal contingent of nuts who were pushing to nullify his Presidency because he didn't receive a majority of the popular vote. Not to mention the fact that he was literally impeached by the Senate. Some folks just can't handle losing elections.

441 swamprat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:53:41am

re: #372 drcordell

Because you are quoting talking points from a source you do not understand, you are making a few errors. The poll suggests that 70% of the polled segment which comprise those who doubt Obama birth in the US; 70% of that group are from the south. Not 70% of white southerners. I cannot decypher what you are trying to say, when you claim that the percentages "do not vary by geological location", as that makes a direct refutation of your claims. Please go back to the scource of your talking points and re-read them until you can understand them.
Addedly, The smear about republicans being anti-semitic is just disgusting and sure leaves jews with no party to cling to, given the democrats stance on Israel.

442 insanity police  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:53:43am

This is bad:

Orly Taitz, the California attorney-dentist leading the charge of the so-called birthers movement, is boasting on her blog that she’s made some high-profile “friends” on Facebook: Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele, House Republican Whip Eric Cantor and GOP Reps. Mary Bono Mack and Cynthia Lummis.

443 idioma  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:54:16am

It's a real shame to watch the GOP hit rock bottom, and then - as Charles would put it - keep digging.

This shit needs to stop.

444 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:54:18am

re: #430 Erik The Red

I am off to fetch my girls from the airport. It has been a long 6 weeks. Thank you Lizards, for also being family. I may have gone crazy if it were not for you.

Stay Scaly and I will see you all in a few days time.

Hope that insomnia is cured for ya'!

445 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:54:25am

re: #410 doppelganglander

That's what I was about to ask. I read that article 3 times, and I've looked at the Research2000 site and the available internals of the poll. Nowhere does it say that 30% of those polled in the south were nonwhite.

I am highly suspicious of the close correlation between the percentage of doubting Republicans and the percentage of doubting Southerners. Since there is no breakdown of demographics within each region, there is no way to know if a higher percentage of Southern respondents were Republicans (compared to their actual numbers in the region). Similarly, maybe the respondents in the rest of the country took in a disproportionately high number of Democrats. Although the percentages may come out accurately on a nationwide basis, there's no telling if they are accurate on a regional basis.

Who knows? The information isn't there. It may be somewhere, but not where I could find it. If drcordell has it, I would like to see it, for my own information. I think the request for it is a reasonable one.

446 BlueRoses  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:54:40am

re: #71 solomonpanting

So then you agree he's a citizen?

Who the heck cares other than the nirthers? The point is he is POTUS and if the nirthers should by some miracle prove their case and get him out of office we have Biden for the remaining years? Who in their right mind wants that?

447 debutaunt  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:54:43am

re: #440 drcordell

I didn't posit a reason for nirthing in that post, just the fact that most nirthers appear to be Southern whites. IMHO, nirtherism is just a way of trying to cope with the fact that America is changing. By 2040 America could very possibly be a minority-white nation. This scares the shit out of some people.

Furthermore, this kind of shit is a pretty normal response to a Democrat of any race being elected as President. Remember the 90's after Clinton was elected? There were certainly a pretty vocal contingent of nuts who were pushing to nullify his Presidency because he didn't receive a majority of the popular vote. Not to mention the fact that he was literally impeached by the Senate. Some folks just can't handle losing elections.

That is just hilarious! Thanks!

448 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:55:06am

re: #442 insanity police

Eric Cantor? I doubt it. Frankly, I doubt anything that loon says.

449 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:55:48am

re: #431 doppelganglander

The number is not 53%. The number is 23%. 30% don't know. You cannot assume they are nirthers. You continue to use the figure of 53%, which tells me you are arguing in bad faith and should be ignored.

Right. It's bad faith to assume that someone who says "I don't know if Obama was born in the USA" is a nirther." The man is President of the United States and his location of birth has been exhaustively verified. Answering "I don't know" is simply an attempt to answer "No" without seeming completely batshit insane.

450 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:56:15am

re: #440 drcordell

... Some folks just can't handle losing
elections.

You got that right. The left spent 8 years self-imploding over Bush. Did you notice? Or was all that Olbermann stuff just a case of someone off his meds?

And it's evident from most of the posting at this blog, we have NO PROBLEM with recognizing who one this last election.

451 doppelganglander  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:57:13am

re: #445 reine.de.tout

Who knows? The information isn't there. It may be somewhere, but not where I could find it. If drcordell has it, I would like to see it, for my own information. I think the request for it is a reasonable one.

I think the only place to find that information is drcordell's ass.

452 nordink  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:57:29am

I probably should have mentioned this before, but that Khenyen Nirth Certifikit is actually a fake. My kids made it earlier today.

Oh, but they just handed me a *real* pirate treasure map that was apparently created by swashbucklers with crayons. Not a fake at all, I'm told. So I'm off to the backyard to dig up some gold!

453 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:57:34am

Nirtherism is stupid and counterproductive. It may have some elements of racism mixed in with it, but it's mostly wishful/magic thinking more damaging to conservatives than their opponents.

454 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:57:34am

re: #445 reine.de.tout

Who knows? The information isn't there. It may be somewhere, but not where I could find it. If drcordell has it, I would like to see it, for my own information. I think the request for it is a reasonable one.

Here are the best internals that I have found for the poll.
Source

455 NelsFree  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:57:46am

Good afternoon all,

Just driving by and skimmed the postings. I just ate a wonderful lunch with my Family. re: #424 avanti

So you are saying a child born of a citizen that was 17 years old at the time her giving birth would not confer citizenship in the USA if she happened to be in Canada on the day of birth ? Seems odd to me. That's less then the five years beyond her 14th birthday.

Well, how about a 17 yr old who had lived as a common-law wife of a US citizen, on a Liberian-registered vessel passing through the Panama Canal, at the time that the Chinese called in all the debt on America, causing the USA to declare war on Panama to distract the population from the crisis in the Far East, resulting in US occupation of the Canal Zone, AT MIDNIGHT?
So, is the baby a boy or a girl?? Geez, Avanti, you scare me sometimes.

456 BlueRoses  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:58:03am

re: #80 reine.de.tout

There are gaps in Obama's history; his birth is not one of them.

The time for those real gaps to have been explored in depth was during the campaign. Many of us who were aware of those gaps did not vote for Obama, and do not completely trust him now to do what is best for this country.

HOWEVER - Obama is now the elected President; to continue on with this backward-looking stuff is pointless; we should be looking at what is happening NOW at this moment, and what his plans are for the future, and doing what we can do to counter those things we think are wrong for this country.

Up ding from me to you.

457 insanity police  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:58:05am

re: #448 wahabicorridor

Eric Cantor? I doubt it. Frankly, I doubt anything that loon says.

Doubt what? That he is her facebook friend? I think that was established. Politico didn't take her word for it. What that means may be up for discussion.

458 swamprat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:58:15am

re: #449 drcordell

And now you know what people are thinking. You are sure making some telling arguments.

459 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:58:37am

re: #451 doppelganglander

I think the only place to find that information is drcordell's ass.

I AIN'T LOOKING.

460 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:59:54am

re: #451 doppelganglander

I think the only place to find that information is drcordell's ass.

Now, now.
drcordell didn't write that analysis, just linked to it.
I'd like to know where they found that of those polled in the south, 30% were non-white. It's just not in the information Iceweasel linked to.

461 VioletTiger  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:00:01pm

re: #440 drcordell

I didn't posit a reason for nirthing in that post, just the fact that most nirthers appear to be Southern whites. IMHO, nirtherism is just a way of trying to cope with the fact that America is changing. By 2040 America could very possibly be a minority-white nation. This scares the shit out of some people.

Furthermore, this kind of shit is a pretty normal response to a Democrat of any race being elected as President. Remember the 90's after Clinton was elected? There were certainly a pretty vocal contingent of nuts who were pushing to nullify his Presidency because he didn't receive a majority of the popular vote. Not to mention the fact that he was literally impeached by the Senate. Some folks just can't handle losing elections.

Apparently, you slept through the 2000 election. Or maybe you were still in 5th grade.

462 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:00:16pm

re: #451 doppelganglander

I think the only place to find that information is drcordell's ass.

Real mature. Your absurdity aside, I just want to know the answer to one thing. Are all of you who are attacking the veracity of my statements really in doubt that the South is the nexus of Nirtherism? Seriously?

463 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:00:28pm

re: #449 drcordell

Answering "I don't know" is simply an attempt to answer "No" without seeming completely batshit insane.

I didn't see that in the poll numbers. You're forming facts to fit your pre-conceived opinions, not the other way around. I think your point is just to imply people don't like Obama. Well, OK. So what.

464 debutaunt  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:01:00pm

re: #461 VioletTiger

Apparently, you slept through the 2000 election. Or maybe you were still in 5th grade.

Or even the 2004 election.

465 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:01:01pm

The madness is multiplying at Free Republic

New string: CONFIRMATION HEARINGS SHOULD BE STOPPED IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE OF THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE ISSUE

One poster offers this helpful advice:

If any congressman holds townhall meetings during the August break, please attend, copy this birthcertificate and pass them out. Leave them around town, copy and e-mail to all on your list. The CORRUPT, OBSOLETE, MEDIA, FOX included should be ashamed of themselves, they have now lowered themselves below the NATIONAL ENQUIRERE (sic).
466 Øyvind Strømmen  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:01:09pm

re: #0 Charles

You’ll see a phishing warning from your browser if you’re using Safari or Firefox. That means her site has been confirmed to host malware.

According to Freerep-comments that's because "Obots are at work". Cute.

467 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:01:15pm

re: #454 drcordell

Here are the best internals that I have found for the poll.
Source

that's the same information iceweasel posted yesterday, and I referred to it ab it upthread.
I still don't see in there where it says that of those polled in the south, 30% were non-white, which is an assertion made in the article you linked to. That's the information I'm trying to find.

468 BignJames  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:01:34pm

re: #449 drcordell

Right. It's bad faith to assume that someone who says "I don't know if Obama was born in the USA" is a nirther." The man is President of the United States and his location of birth has been exhaustively verified. Answering "I don't know" is simply an attempt to answer "No" without seeming completely batshit insane.


Maybe they should have said "I don't care."

469 drcordell  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:01:56pm

re: #461 VioletTiger

Apparently, you slept through the 2000 election. Or maybe you were still in 5th grade.

The 2000 election was decided by a single electoral vote. 1996 and 2008 were complete and utter landslides. There is a difference between challenging the result of the closest election in Presidential history and rejecting a President who won by a landslide as illegitimate.

470 swamprat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:02:00pm

re: #462 drcordell


We think you are the nexus of trollism.

471 insanity police  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:02:24pm

Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the Nirth Certifikat. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no Nirth Certifikat.
Neo: There is no Nirth Certifikat?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the Nirth Certifikat that bends, it is only yourself.

472 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:03:09pm

Nattering Nexus of Nirtherism.

473 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:03:13pm

re: #469 drcordell

The 2000 election was decided by a single electoral vote. 1996 and 2008 were complete and utter landslides. There is a difference between challenging the result of the closest election in Presidential history and rejecting a President who won by a landslide as illegitimate.

52 per cent is a landslide?

474 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:04:05pm

re: #449 drcordell

Answering "I don't know" is simply an attempt to answer "No" without seeming completely batshit insane.

Is that your hypothesis on every poll taken for the "I don't know"s, or just the nirther issue?

If it's your stance that the "I don't know"s are always hiding batshit inanery, may we start asking you questions that will only elicit YES or NO answers and if you're uncertain about something conclud that you are batshit insane?

475 BignJames  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:04:11pm

re: #462 drcordell

Real mature. Your absurdity aside, I just want to know the answer to one thing. Are all of you who are attacking the veracity of my statements really in doubt that the South is the nexus of Nirtherism? Seriously?


So, what to do? Expell the regoin from the Union?

476 VioletTiger  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:04:23pm

re: #465 shiplord kirel

The madness is multiplying at Free Republic

New string: CONFIRMATION HEARINGS SHOULD BE STOPPED IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE OF THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE ISSUE

One poster offers this helpful advice:


Criminy, with all of the legitimate and important issues to tackle at town hall meetings, could they even think of brandishing some ridiculous fake document and asking for a response? I think I might have a fit if I heard that.
Quit this crap, people.

477 avanti  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:04:37pm

re: #455 NelsFree

Good afternoon all,

Just driving by and skimmed the postings. I just ate a wonderful lunch with my Family.

Well, how about a 17 yr old who had lived as a common-law wife of a US citizen, on a Liberian-registered vessel passing through the Panama Canal, at the time that the Chinese called in all the debt on America, causing the USA to declare war on Panama to distract the population from the crisis in the Far East, resulting in US occupation of the Canal Zone, AT MIDNIGHT?
So, is the baby a boy or a girl?? Geez, Avanti, you scare me sometimes.

I just commented on the assertion that citizenship might be questionable if the citizen mother had not resisted in the US for 5 years over the age of 14. If she was under 19, that would be impossible. I know it's one of the nirther arguments, but it makes no sense to me.

478 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:04:39pm

re: #440 drcordell

I didn't posit a reason for nirthing in that post, just the fact that most nirthers appear to be Southern whites. IMHO, nirtherism is just a way of trying to cope with the fact that America is changing. By 2040 America could very possibly be a minority-white nation. This scares the shit out of some people.

Furthermore, this kind of shit is a pretty normal response to a Democrat of any race being elected as President. Remember the 90's after Clinton was elected? There were certainly a pretty vocal contingent of nuts who were pushing to nullify his Presidency because he didn't receive a majority of the popular vote. Not to mention the fact that he was literally impeached by the Senate. Some folks just can't handle losing elections.

Gee, I cannot remember the Dems acting like crazed loons after Bush won TWICE. I think some true colors came out after that as well. Your posts are growing old...yawn

479 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:04:42pm

re: #421 drcordell

I have to admit, I'm totally confused after reading your post. What do the 7% of respondents in the West have to do with those polled in the South?

Your assertion (you said it was a "fact") was this:

it's white Southerners refusing to accept the legitimacy of a black President that is driving the Nirther movement

You then challenged me to disprove that.

The poll you used to support your claim (even thought you said the statistics weren't "exactly precise") is the one I cited.

To disprove your claim all I have to do is find that there exist those outside of the population defined by you as "The White South" who not only beleive nirtherism but also "drive" it.

The poll shows clearly that 7% of The West is Nirther. That alone disproves your "fact". Add to that the unambiguous existence of FreeRepublic (based in "The West") which is a site that is inarguably "driving" nirtherism and your assertion is in shreds.

it is not a fact.

It is not proven.

And while your assertion (given the vague nature of the verb "drive") may not be provable, it is certainly disproven.

Q.E.D.

480 BlueRoses  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:04:51pm

re: #102 drcordell

How has Eric Cantor has managed to get elected, and maintain a leadership position within the GOP? The base doesn't exactly seem too tolerant of the Semites.

Oh puhleeze explain that bit of nonsense.
I am Jewish and a member of the Jewish Republicans. I am also part of the 'base'.

481 westman  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:05:07pm

re: #457 insanity police

Doubt what? That he is her facebook friend? I think that was established. Politico didn't take her word for it. What that means may be up for discussion.

Cantor's spokesman is saying that he does not support Orly Taitz.

I've never used Facebook so I don't really understand the specifics of his response. But I take it as a good sign that he wants to publicly disassociate himself from the nirthers.

482 NelsFree  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:05:09pm

re: #462 drcordell

GAZE

483 midwestgak  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:05:13pm

re: #470 swamprat

We I think you are the nexus of trollism.

Fixed it.

484 haakondahl  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:05:25pm

re: #17 laZardo

re: #15 solomonpanting

One condition of US citizenship:

Obama could have been born on Mars and still qualify.

Does that make Hillary from Venus?

/obscure 90s book reference

I guess Officer Crowley was from Jupiter.

485 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:05:40pm

re: #457 insanity police

Doubt what? That he is her facebook friend? I think that was established. Politico didn't take her word for it. What that means may be up for discussion.

Very odd. Both Steele and Cantor have publically stated they don't question Obama's birth. Perhaps they did it to gather info on that nut case?

486 Steffan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:05:48pm

re: #442 insanity police

This is bad:

Orly Taitz, the California attorney-dentist leading the charge of the so-called birthers movement, is boasting on her blog that she’s made some high-profile “friends” on Facebook: Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele, House Republican Whip Eric Cantor and GOP Reps. Mary Bono Mack and Cynthia Lummis.

Mary Bono Mack is my congresscritter. She voted for Cap & Trade.

I think it's time for her to retire.

I think anything Orly Taitz says on her blog should be taken with a truckload of salt.

487 avanti  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:06:19pm

re: #465 shiplord kirel

The madness is multiplying at Free Republic

New string: CONFIRMATION HEARINGS SHOULD BE STOPPED IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE OF THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE ISSUE

One poster offers this helpful advice:

This one was a little over the top too.

AMEN! THIS SHOULD BE FIRST ON THE LIST OF PRIORITIES. NOT HEALTH CARE OR CAP AND TRADE or anything else.

if the obamanation is a fraud, then he should be removed immediately. We cannot have a criminal serving as president of America or stomping us into the ground in his quest of fascism control!!

He has already cost the American people trillions of dollars, loss of income, loss of savings, and a wide divide between the races. WE CAN'T LET HIM CONTINUE DESTROYING US

488 swamprat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:06:21pm

re: #483 midwestgak

Fixed it.

Good enough.

489 BlueRoses  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:06:54pm

re: #112 MandyManners

Fuck you.

WTG Mandy!

490 haakondahl  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:06:58pm

re: #449 drcordell

Answering "I don't know" is simply an attempt to answer "No" without seeming completely batshit insane.

Don't wait for the translation! Answer the question!

491 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:07:08pm

re: #476 VioletTiger

Criminy, with all of the legitimate and important issues to tackle at town hall meetings, could they even think of brandishing some ridiculous fake document and asking for a response? I think I might have a fit if I heard that.
Quit this crap, people.

It'll be the 60s all over again, with crazy hecklers trying to disrupt every attempt by a legitimate politician to speak in public. It is the whack-job right rather than the loony left that is doing it this time though.

492 insanity police  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:07:17pm

re: #481 westman

Cantor's spokesman is saying that he does not support Orly Taitz.

I've never used Facebook so I don't really understand the specifics of his response. But I take it as a good sign that he wants to publicly disassociate himself from the nirthers.

She may have requested to be his friend, but he has to accept. He can boot her as a friend too.

But it's good that he issed a statement. How about the other Republicans who are facebook friends with her.

493 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:07:22pm

re: #486 Steffan

Mary Bono Mack is my congresscritter. She voted for Cap & Trade.

I think it's time for her to retire.

I think anything Orly Taitz says on her blog should be taken with a truckload of salt.

Shit may taste better when it's properly seasoned. But it's still shit.

494 doppelganglander  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:07:49pm

One more time: Look at the close correlation between the responses of all Republicans and Southerners only. That is not an accident. Not all Southerners are Republicans, and not all Republicans are Southerners, yet the numbers are nearly identical. In the absence of adequate data, I can't be sure, but I strongly suspect that the poll oversampled white Southern Republicans and undersampled both non-white Southerners and non-Southern Republicans.

I also believe, but cannot prove, that the real purpose of the poll was to make Southerners, and particularly Southern Republicans, look stupid. Hasn't anyone wondered why this question was paired with a question about America and Africa having once been part of a single continent? Answering no to that question correlates with being a creationist, a moron, or an old person who went to school before that was widely taught. If you oversample white Southern Republicans, you are also going to get a higher percentage of older people, creationists and - frankly - morons, because a lot of schools down here still suck.

I simply do not trust any poll commissioned by Kos or carried out by Research2000, which is a highly partisan polling firm (look at their web site if you don't believe me).

495 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:08:34pm

re: #475 BignJames

So, what to do? Expell the regoin from the Union?

Not so far off.

496 midwestgak  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:09:19pm

re: #470 swamprat

Try again, gak.

WeI think you are the nexus of trollism.

Please don't use "we" when you insult a poster.

497 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:09:24pm

re: #494 doppelganglander

One more time: Look at the close correlation between the responses of all Republicans and Southerners only. That is not an accident. Not all Southerners are Republicans, and not all Republicans are Southerners, yet the numbers are nearly identical. In the absence of adequate data, I can't be sure, but I strongly suspect that the poll oversampled white Southern Republicans and undersampled both non-white Southerners and non-Southern Republicans.

I also believe, but cannot prove, that the real purpose of the poll was to make Southerners, and particularly Southern Republicans, look stupid. Hasn't anyone wondered why this question was paired with a question about America and Africa having once been part of a single continent? Answering no to that question correlates with being a creationist, a moron, or an old person who went to school before that was widely taught. If you oversample white Southern Republicans, you are also going to get a higher percentage of older people, creationists and - frankly - morons, because a lot of schools down here still suck.

I simply do not trust any poll commissioned by Kos or carried out by Research2000, which is a highly partisan polling firm (look at their web site if you don't believe me).

When the results are known before the poll, that's when you ignore it. KOS and Co. design a poll to fit the answers they wish.

498 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:09:41pm

re: #495 reine.de.tout

That's the spacejesus southern strategy.
No one's apparently heard of refineries.

499 NelsFree  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:10:13pm

re: #469 drcordell

The 2000 election was decided by a single electoral vote.

[Link: www.infoplease.com...]
Bush, 271
Gore, 266
You are wrong.

GAZE

500 JPL17  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:10:17pm

re: #424 avanti

So you are saying a child born of a citizen that was 17 years old at the time her giving birth would not confer citizenship in the USA if she happened to be in Canada on the day of birth ? Seems odd to me. That's less then the five years beyond her 14th birthday.


Yes, that's what I'm saying, but as noted in my post, only if the following facts also apply:

1.) the mom's husband is an alien; and
2.) the child's birth date falls between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986.

Importantly, if both parents in your example were U.S. citizens, then the child would automatically receive U.S. citizenship, even though the mother is only 17 and even though the birth takes place in Canada.

501 swamprat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:12:11pm

re: #496 midwestgak


Understood from the outset.
We I think you are an overzealous hall monitor Mall Security Person.

But your point is taken

502 JPL17  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:12:21pm

Been some real interesting reading here this afternoon, but it's time to hit the bar with my fishing buddies. Catch y'all later.

503 BlueRoses  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:12:34pm

re: #139 Sharmuta

I think a party based on individual liberty and fiscal responsibility would do well and gain a following of Goldwater styled conservatives, moderates and independents, and even some right-leaning democrats. You know- the people needed to win elections. I think that's what folks are looking for in politics right now, and we'll see if anyone can rise to the occasion.

I agree with you.. Barry Goldwater what a guy :)

504 westman  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:13:05pm
How about the other Republicans who are facebook friends with her.

Generally speaking I'd like to see Republican politicians put as much distance between themselves and the nirthers as possible.

That said, what exactly does it mean to be a Facebook friend? Is it normally understood to imply endorsement of someone's views? Or is it more like subscribing to a newsletter, where you might be subscribed merely for informational purposes?

505 avanti  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:13:40pm

re: #492 insanity police

She may have requested to be his friend, but he has to accept. He can boot her as a friend too.

But it's good that he issed a statement. How about the other Republicans who are facebook friends with her.

I get friend requests on Facebook all the time from names I don't recognize, but I approve them in case their are a Studebaker person for example that I have not been introduced to. If someone in the GOP has allowed a nut to be a friend, they may not know them either. i.e. Steele probably approves everyone, assuming they are GOP supporters. I don't think it means a thing unless there is more to it.

506 NelsFree  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:13:53pm

Bye all, it's been fun.

507 BignJames  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:14:34pm

re: #495 reine.de.tout

Not so far off.


I like that..."We"...guess he means himself...and spacejesus.

508 doppelganglander  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:14:39pm

re: #462 drcordell

Real mature. Your absurdity aside, I just want to know the answer to one thing. Are all of you who are attacking the veracity of my statements really in doubt that the South is the nexus of Nirtherism? Seriously?

I stipulated two days ago, when this first came up, that there are probably more Southerners who believe this crap than elsewhere. I am simply raising questions about the accuracy of the poll, based on the few internals that are available.

509 insanity police  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:14:51pm

Putin not citizen of Russia; actually a fish born in international waters. Russians calling for his immediate suspension as prime minister.

Putin dives to bottom of world's deepest lake

510 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:15:23pm

re: #440 drcordell

I didn't posit a reason for nirthing in that post, just the fact that most nirthers appear to be Southern whites. IMHO, nirtherism is just a way of trying to cope with the fact that America is changing. By 2040 America could very possibly be a minority-white nation. This scares the shit out of some people.

Furthermore, this kind of shit is a pretty normal response to a Democrat of any race being elected as President. Remember the 90's after Clinton was elected? There were certainly a pretty vocal contingent of nuts who were pushing to nullify his Presidency because he didn't receive a majority of the popular vote. Not to mention the fact that he was literally impeached by the Senate. Some folks just can't handle losing elections.

You keep saying that about white southerners, but again, in the demographic data provided for that poll, I do not see where they broke out the percentage of whites/non-whites polled IN THE SOUTH. It's there for the nation as a whole, but I cannot find it for the south.

511 doppelganglander  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:15:26pm

re: #440 drcordell

I didn't posit a reason for nirthing in that post, just the fact that most nirthers appear to be Southern whites. IMHO, nirtherism is just a way of trying to cope with the fact that America is changing. By 2040 America could very possibly be a minority-white nation. This scares the shit out of some people.

Furthermore, this kind of shit is a pretty normal response to a Democrat of any race being elected as President. Remember the 90's after Clinton was elected? There were certainly a pretty vocal contingent of nuts who were pushing to nullify his Presidency because he didn't receive a majority of the popular vote. Not to mention the fact that he was literally impeached by the Senate. Some folks just can't handle losing elections.

He was impeached by the House. The vote took place in the Senate. I know where you can find a copy of the Constitution if you need one.

512 insanity police  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:15:41pm

re: #505 avanti

I tend to agree with you. But the association isn't helpful.

513 midwestgak  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:15:41pm

re: #501 swamprat

Understood from the outset.
We I think you are an overzealous hall monitor Mall Security Person.

But your point is taken

{swamprat} The "strike" function didn't work right. So I tried it again.

Happy posting. Be well.

514 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:16:11pm

re: #508 doppelganglander

I stipulated two days ago, when this first came up, that there are probably more Southerners who believe this crap than elsewhere. I am simply raising questions about the accuracy of the poll, based on the few internals that are available.

agree 100%

515 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:16:44pm

re: #494 doppelganglander

One more time: Look at the close correlation between the responses of all Republicans and Southerners only. That is not an accident. Not all Southerners are Republicans, and not all Republicans are Southerners, yet the numbers are nearly identical. In the absence of adequate data, I can't be sure, but I strongly suspect that the poll oversampled white Southern Republicans and undersampled both non-white Southerners and non-Southern Republicans.

I also believe, but cannot prove, that the real purpose of the poll was to make Southerners, and particularly Southern Republicans, look stupid. Hasn't anyone wondered why this question was paired with a question about America and Africa having once been part of a single continent? Answering no to that question correlates with being a creationist, a moron, or an old person who went to school before that was widely taught. If you oversample white Southern Republicans, you are also going to get a higher percentage of older people, creationists and - frankly - morons, because a lot of schools down here still suck.

I simply do not trust any poll commissioned by Kos or carried out by Research2000, which is a highly partisan polling firm (look at their web site if you don't believe me).

It would probably be worth tinkering with a spreadsheet to look at different sampling scenarios that would generate the outcome that was published.

Has anyone here tried it yet?

516 VioletTiger  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:17:17pm

re: #510 reine.de.tout

reine, don't even bother. He is trying to read what he wants to see in the data, regardless of whether or not the data supports it.

517 doppelganglander  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:17:28pm

re: #465 shiplord kirel

The madness is multiplying at Free Republic

New string: CONFIRMATION HEARINGS SHOULD BE STOPPED IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE OF THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE ISSUE

One poster offers this helpful advice:

I am actually keeping tabs to see if my congressman (a Republican) is holding any town hall meetings. I want to go and state that the birth certificate issue is nonsense, and ask what he plans to do to stop the crazies.

518 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:17:32pm

re: #509 insanity police

2,000 Rubles Under the Sea

519 swamprat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:18:12pm

re: #513 midwestgak

You also midwest.

520 haakondahl  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:18:32pm

re: #493 SixDegrees

Shit may taste better when it's properly seasoned. But it's still shit.

I thought I would like dating younger ladies; younger than myself. Then I discovered that they were needy and full of crap. So I dated some who were a shade older than I was. They were vain, and full of crap as well. Later I dated some about my age, and I discovered that somehow this group was also full of crap.
So in a precocious moment of maturity, I decided that everybody was full of shit, and you just pick a flavor you like, and get on with it. What am I, waiting for perfection?
Years later still, I realized it was me all along.

521 haakondahl  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:19:04pm

re: #496 midwestgak

Try again, gak.

Please don't use "we" when you insult a poster.

All right, I admit I'm torn.

522 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:19:13pm

re: #516 VioletTiger

reine, don't even bother. He is trying to read what he wants to see in the data, regardless of whether or not the data supports it.

whoever wrote the analysis that drcordell linked to had to have gotten that data from somewhere. I would simply like to see it, if it exists. Simple.

523 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:19:19pm

re: #472 jaunte

Nattering Nexus of Nirtherism.

AWESOME

524 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:20:13pm

re: #518 Killgore Trout

2,000 Rubles Under the Sea

Jouney To The Bottom Of The Borscht

525 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:20:20pm

From Atlas Shrieks:

Let's understand this. CNN won't touch the birth certificate issue, the Rezko/Auchi corruption, Obama's anti-semitism, his ACORN/SEIU ties and corruption and other legitimate stories that need investigation. But they write fiction about Palin. Daily. So why not tell the truth about Obama and his reported strange sexual predilections? My question is, it is well known that Obama allegedly was involved with a crack whore in his youth. Very seedy stuff. Why aren't they pursuing that story? Find the ho, give her a show! Obama trafficked in some very deviant practices. Where's the investigation?

526 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:21:19pm

re: #509 insanity police

Putin not citizen of Russia; actually a fish born in international waters. Russians calling for his immediate suspension as prime minister.

Putin dives to bottom of world's deepest lake

In America you release birth certificate
In Soviet Union birth certificate releases you

527 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:22:04pm

Hell and damn! Freepers are making death threats against anti-nirther Congressmen:
This comment...

These congressmen better wake up before the public holds them PERSONALLY accountable.

Tar and Feather comes to mind

...drew this response:

There was a time when accountability could be fatal.
Remember Virginia City, Montana 1863 when local Committee’s for Public Safety brought out the ropes with thirteen loops above the noose!

Btw, skepticism of partisan polls is always in order, but even if the numbers in the Kos/Research2000 poll are exaggerated by 2 to 1, it is too many.

There is no doubt at all about two things:
1.) This is getting saturation coverage in the media.
2.) The GOP leadership has at the very least failed to speak out against it in any meaningful way. To the best of my knowledge, exactly ONE Republican Congressman, Franks of Arizona, has unequivocally repudiated the Nirthers.

528 haakondahl  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:22:10pm

re: #509 insanity police

Putin not citizen of Russia; actually a fish born in international waters. Russians calling for his immediate suspension as prime minister.

Putin dives to bottom of world's deepest lake

I begin to see the murky outlines of a Lizard-King, Fish-God, Cod-believing Internirther galactic conspiracy.

Well, why do you think they're the Scales of Justice, eh? Death to the Mammals.

529 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:22:19pm

re: #462 drcordell

Real mature. Your absurdity aside, I just want to know the answer to one thing. Are all of you who are attacking the veracity of my statements really in doubt that the South is the nexus of Nirtherism? Seriously?


Nice shifting argument you have there.

Upthread (#102) you argued that "the Rebublican base doesn't exactly seem too tolerant of the Semites."

You then morphed it into your current assertion that "the South is the nexus of Nirtherism."

Where will you take us next?

Care to support your original assertion - that the Republican "Base" is not tolerant of Jews?

Or does "everyone" already "know" that "fact"?

530 avanti  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:22:24pm

re: #512 insanity police

I tend to agree with you. But the association isn't helpful.


I hate the extent associations are used. How do I know my Boy Scout leader was not a Commie for example, and even if he was, what does that prove about me ? Unless you could prove that Steele agreed with the nut, I won't give it much weight. BTW, the GOP may not want to reject all the nuts out of hand, there are plenty of nuts in each parties base that are at least tolerated.

531 BlueRoses  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:22:25pm

re: #191 reine.de.tout

I really screwed that up.

I do believe Israel's right to be a Jewish state, but I don't believe that for the reason that it will facilitate the second coming of Christ.

We knew what you meant Shug.

532 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:22:36pm

re: #525 Charles

From Atlas Shrieks:

it is well known that Obama allegedly was involved with a crack whore in his youth. Very seedy stuff. Why aren't they pursuing that story? Find the ho

{self delete}

BAD SATT ,, BAD BAD BAD!!

533 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:23:09pm

re: #525 Charles

That's a good one, I'll have to remember that construction:

"...it is well known that (insert target's name) allegedly was..."
534 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:23:44pm

re: #531 BlueRoses

We knew what you meant Shug.

???

535 doppelganglander  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:23:51pm

re: #525 Charles

From Atlas Shrieks:

What on earth? You can say a lot of things about Obama, but I would never in a million years suspect him of any kind of sexual misadventures. He's just too arrogant and uptight.

536 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:24:03pm

re: #7 laZardo

Unfortunately, it's probably not so much the GOP "base" as it is the GOP base.

Please remember that 'the base' in Arabic is 'al-qaeda'. Coincidence? Yes, entirely, but it's funny to remember at moments like this.

537 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:24:44pm

re: #534 Shug

???

Meant me.

538 swamprat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:24:57pm

re: #521 haakondahl
I did perhaps overstep.

It would have been better to have told the subject to choose an ad hominum he thought appropiate, or randomly look at MandyManners fine suggestions.

Oh well, live and learn.

539 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:25:04pm

re: #525 Charles

From Atlas Shrieks:

Sorry. But Obama strikes me as an Every Wednesday night Missionary with the lights out kind of guy.

but Pamela would know all about Ho's, so I defer to her wisdom on the matter

540 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:25:28pm

re: #536 SanFranciscoZionist

Please remember that 'the base' in Arabic is 'al-qaeda'. Coincidence? Yes, entirely, but it's funny to remember at moments like this.

Good point. I'll file that away for future abuse.

541 JHW  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:25:30pm

As always, Pam (atlas) says a helluva lot more about her own character than Obama's.

542 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:25:30pm

re: #525 Charles

I like the links to naked pics of Obama's mom. One link has been busted since yesterday and she still hasn't fixed it.

543 Steffan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:25:56pm

re: #469 drcordell

The 2000 election was decided by a single electoral vote. 1996 and 2008 were complete and utter landslides. There is a difference between challenging the result of the closest election in Presidential history and rejecting a President who won by a landslide as illegitimate.

Ever hear of a Google search?

2000 election results

In a 7 to 2 vote, the Court held that the Florida Supreme Court improperly established new standards for resolving Presidential election contests, thereby violating Article II, section 1, clause 2 of the U.S. Constitution, and that the state Supreme Court's order directing manual recounts without specific standards on how to review the ballots violated the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment.

The Court further held, by a 5 to 4 majority, that Federal election law specified a December 12 deadline for states to certify their winners, and that accordingly it was too late to allow any statewide recount remedy to proceed, even if the recount proceeded under the original standard.

On December 18, the Electoral College met, casting 271 votes for George W. Bush and Richard Cheney and 266 votes for Albert Gore and Joseph Lieberman; the final popular vote total was 50,996,582 votes for the Democratic ticket and 50,456,062 votes for the Republicans.

On January 6, with Vice President Gore presiding over a joint session of the Congress, the Electoral College votes were officially counted and Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney were declared as the new president and vice president.

(broken up into paragraphs by me for clarity)

Sore loser The Goreacle tried to steal the election. The Florida Supreme Court tried to help. SCOTUS whacked FSC big time for that.

The narrative by the Left, of course, was that Bush stole the election. As if.

544 Lynn B.  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:26:06pm

re: #413 drcordell

What is the conclusion you would draw from that data? I really don't see what other conclusion could be drawn. Nationwide, less than 15% of non-whites have any doubt about Obama's citizenship. Nationwide excluding the South, less than 15% of the general population have any doubt about Obama's citizenship. Within the South this number suddenly jumps up to 53%. How else can that be explained?

The conclusion I would draw is that 23% of the people polled who live in "the South" do not believe Barrack Obama was born in the United States. Another 30% are "unsure," which appears to mean that either they have no opinion, don't care, tend to believe he was but aren't convinced, tend to believe he wasn't but aren't convinced, or some combination of the above. So the number isn't 53%, it's 23%.

To "drive" a movement (as you claim they do), you sort of need to at least believe in it. Yes, the poll shows quite a few more Southerners who do believe Obama wasn't born in the US than in any other area of the country (interesting that a full 30% of the sample was from the South ... more than any other area ... I wonder why). But numbers do not a movement drive either. And it sure seems to me that the "drivers" of the nirther movement are in NY and CA and other places that offer them a more visible soapbox from which to bloviate.

545 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:26:10pm

Really classy, pamela!

546 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:26:15pm

re: #525 Charles

From Atlas Shrieks:

So why not tell the truth about Obama and his reported strange sexual predilections?

What in the world? Does she just sit around waiting for the Muse of Craziness to strike her?

547 haakondahl  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:26:37pm

re: #469 drcordell

The 2000 election was decided by a single electoral vote. 1996 and 2008 were complete and utter landslides. There is a difference between challenging the result of the closest election in Presidential history and rejecting a President who won by a landslide as illegitimate.

Your sloppy (dishonest?) argument puts me in an awkward position: "landslide" (cf Reagan) doesn't address eligibility at all. If you want to argue vote counts, then argue vote counts. If you want to argue eligibility, then do so. Perhaps you were just typing faster than you were thinking.

548 Ojoe  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:26:39pm

Both major parties are infected with morons.

Time for a new party.

549 Macker  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:26:47pm

re: #525 Charles

From Atlas Shrieks:

You mean she wasn't moaning?

/snicker

550 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:27:00pm

re: #525 Charles

From Atlas Shrieks:

It's so heartening seeing self-proclaimed Conservatives tossing aside the legal protections assuming innocence without proof, and placing that burden onto the accused instead, demanding that they respond with proof that the hallucinatory accusations leveled against them are false.

But I would hardly consider Pam to be "mainstream" in any sense of the word. Her website is like a textual/graphical Cry of the Loon.

551 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:27:35pm

re: #546 MandyManners

So why not tell the truth about Obama and his reported strange sexual predilections?

What in the world? Does she just sit around waiting for the Muse Hockey Puck of Craziness to strike her?

ftfy ,,, leaves more of a dent!

552 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:27:39pm

Crazy Pam also picked up on the "Internment/Resettlement Specialist for the Army National Guard" job listing that Stormfront was excited about yesterday.

553 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:27:40pm

re: #546 MandyManners

I think that Muse has moved in and rearranged the furniture.

554 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:27:44pm

re: #529 karmic_inquisitor

Nice shifting argument you have there.

Upthread (#102) you argued that "the Rebublican base doesn't exactly seem too tolerant of the Semites."

You then morphed it into your current assertion that "the South is the nexus of Nirtherism."

Where will you take us next?

Care to support your original assertion - that the Republican "Base" is not tolerant of Jews?

Or does "everyone" already "know" that "fact"?

He STILL won't adress my No. 267.

555 Ojoe  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:28:13pm

re: #546 MandyManners

Most people have those anyway IMHO

556 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:28:23pm

re: #548 Ojoe

Both major parties are infected with morons.

Time for a new party.

Some at Free Republic are recommending the necktie party.

557 avanti  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:28:35pm

re: #542 Killgore Trout

I like the links to naked pics of Obama's mom. One link has been busted since yesterday and she still hasn't fixed it.

Just to be clear, the jury is very much out on if that is his mom, or just a look-a-like. They are barely R rated BTW, and not Porn as Pam suggests.

558 midwestgak  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:28:49pm

re: #534 Shug

???

An affectionate term - derived from the word sugar.

559 haakondahl  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:28:55pm

re: #538 swamprat

I did perhaps overstep.

It would have been better to have told the subject to choose an ad hominum he thought appropiate, or randomly look at MandyManners fine suggestions.

Oh well, live and learn.

Well, let's have some Ho-Hos and beer, and all will be well.

560 insanity police  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:29:00pm

re: #530 avanti

Associations don't necessary prove anything, you are correct. Implying they do may not be fair either. However, some in the GOP are enabling the nirthers and that is an unfortunate fact.

561 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:29:08pm

re: #546 MandyManners

So why not tell the truth about Obama and his reported strange sexual predilections?

What in the world? Does she just sit around waiting for the Muse of Craziness to strike her?

I think it's the Crack Monkey of Craziness.

562 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:29:17pm

re: #546 MandyManners

re: #551 sattv4u2

(((that would have been funnier if I had crossed out MUSE instead of making it BOLD))

PIMF

563 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:29:36pm

re: #557 avanti

It's certainly not Obama's mom.

564 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:29:41pm

re: #555 Ojoe

Most people have those anyway IMHO

Hers seems to have taken up residence right next to those bats in her bellfry.

565 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:29:44pm

You have got to be kidding me. Geller's insane post has more than 290 updings at Yahoo Buzz?!

[Link: buzz.yahoo.com...]

I just went and buzzed this one down, and I suggest all LGF readers do the same.

566 Ojoe  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:30:03pm

re: #556 shiplord kirel

An "American Block Party," with kegs, would be good IMHO.

567 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:30:16pm

re: #561 SixDegrees

I think it's the Crack Monkey of Craziness.

With some brown acid thrown in for good measure.

568 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:30:38pm

re: #562 sattv4u2

re: #551 sattv4u2

(((that would have been funnier if I had crossed out MUSE instead of making it BOLD))

PIMF

I got it anyway.

569 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:30:49pm

re: #565 Charles

You have got to be kidding me. Geller's insane post has more than 290 updings at Yahoo Buzz?!

[Link: buzz.yahoo.com...]

I just went and buzzed this one down, and I suggest all LGF readers do the same.

With pleasure.

570 VioletTiger  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:30:49pm

re: #525 Charles
Crack Ho?
Where is she finding this?
Deranged woman.

571 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:31:07pm

re: #566 Ojoe

An "American Block Party," with kegs, would be good IMHO.

Zero did get the barrel rolling at the White House the other day. I would support an effort to extend it to the national level.

572 haakondahl  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:31:37pm

re: #557 avanti

Just to be clear, the jury is very much out on if that is his mom, or just a look-a-like. They are barely R rated BTW, and not Porn as Pam suggests.

I won't even look. What a bunch of crap. Even if all of it were true and in the worst way, what the Hell would I care? Is that all we have left--Your Mama?

573 swamprat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:31:53pm

re: #525 Charles

It is a well known fact that Obama has had two more chandeliers placed in the whitehouse bedroom at a lowered height, suitable for swinging.

The mirrored ceiling goes in this week.

574 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:31:54pm

re: #565 Charles

You have got to be kidding me. Geller's insane post has more than 290 updings at Yahoo Buzz?!

[Link: buzz.yahoo.com...]

I just went and buzzed this one down, and I suggest all LGF readers do the same.

done.
She is crazy.

575 JHW  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:31:56pm

re: #552 Killgore Trout

That one's getting a lot of play on the conspiracy sites. For some fun (or sheer terror) on how loony some of our fellow citizens are, regardless of political leanings , go here. So many conspiracies, so little time.

576 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:32:01pm

re: #570 VioletTiger

Crack Ho?
Where is she finding this?
Deranged woman.

mirror mirror on the wall,,, who's the HOiest of them all

577 Fat Jolly Penguin  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:32:05pm

re: #565 Charles

You have got to be kidding me. Geller's insane post has more than 290 updings at Yahoo Buzz?!

[Link: buzz.yahoo.com...]

I just went and buzzed this one down, and I suggest all LGF readers do the same.

Done. The comments are a real fever swamp, too.

578 avanti  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:32:42pm

re: #563 Killgore Trout

It's certainly not Obama's mom.

You mean Pam would lie about Obama-moma Porn pictures ?/

579 Van Helsing  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:32:49pm

So where's the damn GOP leadership with a simple yet clear statement to the effect of 'Obama is the legitimate POTUS. Period. Now STFU and STFD'.

What's so hard about that? Any one that might be 'alienated' by such a statement I really don't want as part of the party anyway.

Hasn't this gone on long enough?

580 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:33:33pm

re: #129 solomonpanting

Then, obviously, those folks aren't the base.

Or, at least, not the base that elected Mr. Cantor.

581 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:33:52pm

re: #579 Van Helsing

So where's the damn GOP leadership with a simple yet clear statement to the effect of 'Obama is the legitimate POTUS. Period. Now STFU and STFD'.

What's so hard about that? Any one that might be 'alienated' by such a statement I really don't want as part of the party anyway.

Hasn't this gone on long enough?

Hasn't Steele spoken out against it?

582 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:33:53pm

re: #579 Van Helsing

So where's the damn GOP leadership with a simple yet clear statement to the effect of 'Obama is the legitimate POTUS. Period. Now STFU and STFD'.

What's so hard about that? Any one that might be 'alienated' by such a statement I really don't want as part of the party anyway.

Hasn't this gone on long enough?

Steele is a RINO!

Seriously- it doesn't matter. These people will carry on with their crazy no matter who speaks out against it.

583 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:34:20pm

re: #563 Killgore Trout

It's certainly not Obama's mom.

I don't care enough now to dig up the link, but I analyzed these last year and concluded they were obvious photoshoppes. There are contrast lines around the neck at high magnification. The angle of the neck also appears to be anatomically impossible.

584 Van Helsing  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:34:56pm

How the devil do the sane distance themselves from this?

585 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:35:35pm

His mother is dead.
Honestly, I think even discussing this is disrespectful ( not the discussion here, but people actually attempting the smear campaign against a dead woman wh can't defend herself )

disgusting

586 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:35:38pm

re: #539 Shug

updinged you for that one!

587 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:35:43pm

I haven't been paying much attention to it lately -- when did Yahoo Buzz become the batshit crazy right wing version of Digg?

588 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:36:10pm

re: #141 drcordell

For a party that hates Israel the Democrats sure do garner a lot of Jewish votes. Obama took 77% of the Jewish vote in the last election, and Gore/Kerry did even better than that. Go look at any historical election data, Jewish voters are a pretty solid Democratic constituency.

True, although the Russians and the resurgence of the Orthodox have skewed the traditional pattern a bit. Sarah Silverman was dead oppo wrong when she suggested that older Jews were more conservative than the younger generation--votingwise, it's the exact opposite.

589 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:36:11pm

re: #583 shiplord kirel

I don't care enough now to dig up the link, but I analyzed these last year and concluded they were obvious photoshoppes. There are contrast lines around the neck at high magnification. The angle of the neck also appears to be anatomically impossible.

For a human ,,, yes ,, but we all know that Obama is not human, so it follows that Mom isn't either!!

(cue in Outer Limits music)

590 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:36:23pm

re: #585 Shug

His mother is dead.
Honestly, I think even discussing this is disrespectful ( not the discussion here, but people actually attempting the smear campaign against a dead woman wh can't defend herself )

disgusting

It's very misogynistic.

591 Ojoe  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:36:29pm

re: #584 Van Helsing

Join the whigs!

I did.
Modern Whig Party

592 avanti  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:36:43pm

re: #579 Van Helsing

So where's the damn GOP leadership with a simple yet clear statement to the effect of 'Obama is the legitimate POTUS. Period. Now STFU and STFD'.

What's so hard about that? Any one that might be 'alienated' by such a statement I really don't want as part of the party anyway.

Hasn't this gone on long enough?

If the polling is close to correct, that's a lot of voters in the red states they might lose by doing the "right" thing. Sadly, there are a bunch of voters hollering for a statement in support of the nirthers. It's a dilemma.

593 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:37:02pm

re: #590 Sharmuta

It's very misogynistic.

as others have said so well previously, It reveals an awful lot about the people who are doing this.

594 capitalist piglet  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:37:21pm

re: #585 Shug

His mother is dead.
Honestly, I think even discussing this is disrespectful ( not the discussion here, but people actually attempting the smear campaign against a dead woman wh can't defend herself )

disgusting

That's exactly what I was thinking. Upding.

595 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:37:36pm

re: #589 sattv4u2

For a human ,,, yes ,, but we all know that Obama is not human, so it follows that Mom isn't either!!

(cue in Outer Limits music)

On the plus side, Area 51 is definitely within the United States so that would resolve the citizenship question.

596 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:38:27pm

re: #164 drcordell

These crazies believe that Jews must be living in the holy land, as proscribed by the bible, for the second coming to occur. That does not mean they do not harbor anti-semitic attitudes. I'm not saying that EVERY Republican "hates teh joos." I am saying that the nirther base crazies in the South are not known to be the most tolerant of Jews.

Well, clearly someone voted for Mr. Cantor. We can argue about whether they're representative Republicans some other time. Tell me when that's happening, so I can run like hell.

597 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:38:53pm

re: #595 shiplord kirel

On the plus side, Area 51 is definitely within the United States so that would resolve the citizenship question.

Everyone knows Area 51 is the French Riviera for aliens on earth

Vacationers only ,,, no natives!

598 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:38:55pm

re: #584 Van Helsing

How the devil do the sane distance themselves from this?

Speak out whenever and wherever you encounter it. Write your elected officials. Write a letter to the editor of your local paper.

599 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:39:53pm

re: #587 Charles

I haven't been paying much attention to it lately -- when did Yahoo Buzz become the batshit crazy right wing version of Digg?

After I down-dinged, I took a look around and got a case of the heebie-jeebies.

600 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:40:12pm

re: #146 drcordell

You and you little dingbuddy blueherron need to wise up and get a clue before y'all get bounced...

601 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:40:12pm

re: #578 avanti

She is seriously stupid. She might even believe this stuff.

602 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:40:15pm

re: #593 Shug

as others have said so well previously, It reveals an awful lot about the people who are doing this.

Using a man's dead, (fake) naked mother to shame him- pretty depraved.

603 avanti  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:40:21pm

OK, taking a short break for some yard work. Please consider some attacks on the POTUS's policies while I'm gone. I'm uncomfortable agreeing with a bunch of conservatives for so long. /

604 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:40:29pm

re: #191 reine.de.tout

I really screwed that up.

I do believe Israel's right to be a Jewish state, but I don't believe that for the reason that it will facilitate the second coming of Christ.

No, it was clear the first time. ;)

605 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:41:41pm

re: #583 shiplord kirel

I never took it seriously enough to look into (although I do enjoy vintage boobies). I just assumed it was some look alike.

606 haakondahl  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:42:51pm

re: #565 Charles

You have got to be kidding me. Geller's insane post has more than 290 updings at Yahoo Buzz?!

[Link: buzz.yahoo.com...]

I just went and buzzed this one down, and I suggest all LGF readers do the same.

Done.

607 capitalist piglet  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:43:41pm

re: #598 MandyManners

Speak out whenever and wherever you encounter it. Write your elected officials. Write a letter to the editor of your local paper.

I'm curious: How did sane Democrats distance themselves from 9/11 Truthers, "Bush Lied, People Died" BS, Code Pink, and the like? (Genuine question.) I just don't remember them addressing these things at all...except once or twice when Code Pink interrupted a Democrat speaking, and got dragged out of a public event.

Remember the one who came within inches of Condi Rice, with the "bloody" hands?

That was pretty crazy too, but I don't remember any Democrats talking about it...did I just miss it?

608 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:44:00pm

re: #214 jaunte

Geography is still a safe playground for bigotry.

You're tellin' me? I had a convo with a late-night guy right here on LGF who seemed to think I was personally out to get him because I'm from Nancy Pelosi's district. I don't know, he seemed to think we all turn on the TV in the morning and get our daily marching orders.

That said, stereoptying of the South is pernicious, and largely accepted.

609 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:45:26pm

re: #607 capitalist piglet

I'm curious: How did sane Democrats distance themselves from 9/11 Truthers, "Bush Lied, People Died" BS, Code Pink, and the like? (Genuine question.) I just don't remember them addressing these things at all...except once or twice when Code Pink interrupted a Democrat speaking, and got dragged out of a public event.

Remember the one who came within inches of Condi Rice, with the "bloody" hands?

That was pretty crazy too, but I don't remember any Democrats talking about it...did I just miss it?

I don't recall any Democrat distancing herself from the loons.

610 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:46:21pm

re: #609 MandyManners

I don't recall any Democrat distancing herself from the loons.

I don't recall Chris Matthews saying, "the great Alex Jones" either.

611 DEZes  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:46:50pm

re: #575 JHW

That one's getting a lot of play on the conspiracy sites. For some fun (or sheer terror) on how loony some of our fellow citizens are, regardless of political leanings , go here. So many conspiracies, so little time.

Not sure where that link leads, it says my IP has been banned,
Strange that.

612 VioletTiger  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:47:00pm

re: #607 capitalist piglet

I have never seen any Dems go off on Code Pink and the like, but that doesn't mean they haven't. My impression has been that they either accept or ignore their crazies.

613 JHW  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:48:03pm

Heh, a whole bunch of people claiming to be Cherokee over there at that Yahoo site and arguing who's more Cherokee. Ward Churchill should be chiming in pretty soon. The Cherokee Nation must number about 50 million right about now if everyone's telling the truth.

614 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:48:10pm

re: #609 MandyManners

I don't recall any Democrat distancing herself from the loons.

John Kerry publicly rebuked Kos Zuniga for the "screw them" comments and removed the Kos link from his campaign site.

615 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:48:27pm

re: #612 VioletTiger

Shunning is effective. Unfortunately, our crazy isn't getting shunned, it's getting mainstreamed.

616 haakondahl  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:48:51pm

re: #584 Van Helsing

How the devil do the sane distance themselves from this?

You don't. You fight it.

617 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:48:57pm

re: #243 drcordell

Did I fucking say they did, dipshit? Go back and read what I have been saying. I said that there are fundamentalist Christian groups that believe Israel needs to control the holy land to facilitate the rapture. They support Israel based on THIS FACT ALONE, and it has nothing to do with tolerance/support of Jews themselves. This isn't complicated...

First, stop swearing and insulting people. Second, try to tie some of your arguments together. Sure, there are fundamentalist Christians whose support of Israel is tied to beliefs about the end of the world.

Most of these, the ones I've met, anyway, not only like Jews but regard them with a certain awe. Which can be embarassing as hell.

Many, although not all, of these people vote Republican because they tend to be social conservatives as well.

Some Republicans are mainstream-religious, or not religious, and vote Republican for all kinds of reasons.

Some Republicans are anti-Semites.

Some Republicans like cats. Others are allergic.

Deep breath now. Republicans are just people. OK?

618 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:48:58pm

re: #610 Sharmuta

I don't recall Chris Matthews saying, "the great Alex Jones" either.

Wasn't Jones anti-Bush, too, back then?

619 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:49:03pm

re: #611 DEZes

Not sure where that link leads, it says my IP has been banned,
Strange that.

Got you covered bro! They proved the existence of chemtrails!!

620 capitalist piglet  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:49:05pm

re: #610 Sharmuta

I don't recall Chris Matthews saying, "the great Alex Jones" either.

Maybe not, but I don't consider Chris Matthews a serious journalist, either. Anyone who gets a tingle up their leg over a politician has lost his grip, as far as I'm concerned.

621 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:49:40pm

re: #612 VioletTiger

I have never seen any Dems go off on Code Pink and the like, but that doesn't mean they haven't. My impression has been that they either accept or ignore their crazies.

the term usefull idiots comes to mind.

622 haakondahl  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:49:48pm

re: #585 Shug

His mother is dead.
Honestly, I think even discussing this is disrespectful ( not the discussion here, but people actually attempting the smear campaign against a dead woman wh can't defend herself )

disgusting

I won't even talk about it here. Especially not here. What crap.

623 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:49:56pm

re: #607 capitalist piglet

I'm curious: How did sane Democrats distance themselves from 9/11 Truthers, "Bush Lied, People Died" BS, Code Pink, and the like?

They never have. To this day they're still trying to drag Rove and Cheney up to the hill to face questions/ charges. I'm not talking Cindy Sheehans, I'm talking LEADERS ,,, Nana Pelosi et al

624 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:50:01pm

re: #614 shiplord kirel

John Kerry publicly rebuked Kos Zuniga for the "screw them" comments and removed the Kos link from his campaign site.

During which election?

625 jvic  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:50:01pm

re: #550 SixDegrees

But I would hardly consider Pam to be "mainstream" in any sense of the word. Her website is like a textual/graphical Cry of the Loon.

Would that be the Nirth American loon?

626 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:50:12pm

re: #607 capitalist piglet

I'm curious: How did sane Democrats distance themselves from 9/11 Truthers, "Bush Lied, People Died" BS, Code Pink, and the like? (Genuine question.) I just don't remember them addressing these things at all...except once or twice when Code Pink interrupted a Democrat speaking, and got dragged out of a public event.

Remember the one who came within inches of Condi Rice, with the "bloody" hands?

That was pretty crazy too, but I don't remember any Democrats talking about it...did I just miss it?

I've been curious about that too. Just for the heck of it, I dug back a little bit to try and discover of the truthers were out in the same numbers and found this...

"More than a third of the American public suspects that federal officials assisted in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could go to war in the Middle East, according to a new Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll.

The national survey of 1,010 adults also found that anger against the federal government is at record levels, with 54 percent saying they "personally are more angry" at the government than they used to be.


Widespread resentment and alienation toward the national government appears to be fueling a growing acceptance of conspiracy theories about the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Suspicions that the 9/11 attacks were "an inside job" - the common phrase used by conspiracy theorists on the Internet - quickly have become nearly as popular as decades-old conspiracy theories that the federal government was responsible for President John F. Kennedy's assassination and that it has covered up proof of space aliens.

Thirty-six percent of respondents overall said it is "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that federal officials either participated in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon or took no action to stop them "because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East."

"One out of three sounds high, but that may very well be right," said Lee Hamilton, former vice chairman of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also called the 9/11 Commission.) His congressionally appointed investigation concluded that federal officials bungled their attempts to prevent, but did not participate in, the attacks by al-Qaida five years ago."

Thing is this poll wasn't even that long ago in relative terms (Summer 2006, if I'm reading the article correctly).

How did the Dems put distance between themselves and this issue? Is there a lesson for R's in this?

627 JHW  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:50:18pm

re: #611 DEZes

Try this one, it leads to the forum, lots of looniness

628 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:50:24pm

re: #618 MandyManners

Wasn't Jones anti-Bush, too, back then?

alex jones started trooferism immediately.

629 DEZes  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:51:01pm

re: #619 BigPapa

Got you covered bro! They proved the existence of chemtrails!!

Best laugh I have had all day.

630 shortshrift  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:51:24pm

re: #592 avanti

The "dilemma" is otherwise known as politics. Every politician on any issue weighs potential votes lost against potential votes gained before stating his position. If he is not sure of the net vote, he prevaricates.
The call for the GOP to denounce nirthers (and creationists) is based on the premise that not to do so loses votes from independents and democrats who are turned off by such nonsense. I have not see statistics quantifying this, but presumably politicians in marginal districts are making an rough calculation and denouncing, or not, accordingly.

631 Racer X  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:51:49pm

re: #608 SanFranciscoZionist

That said, stereoptying of the South is pernicious, and largely accepted.

"Southern Hospitality".

There's a reason why that saying exists. Many in the South are fine, decent, caring people. The bigotry towards Southerners exists primarily due to the accent. They don't talk like ya'all.

Way to embrace diversity.

632 VioletTiger  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:51:58pm

Thanks for the company but it's back to the kitchen, lizards. So far made Belgian waffles, pickles, zuccini bread, potato salad, peach pie. Time to get a roast in the oven. It's a rainy day here.

633 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:52:15pm

re: #620 capitalist piglet

Maybe not, but I don't consider Chris Matthews a serious journalist, either. Anyone who gets a tingle up their leg over a politician has lost his grip, as far as I'm concerned.

He's not really a journalist either. He was Tip O'Neill's press guy and a speech writer for Carter. He's pure politics.

634 DEZes  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:52:49pm

re: #627 JHW

Try this one, it leads to the forum, lots of looniness

It says I am banned, lol.

635 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:53:13pm

re: #628 Sharmuta

alex jones started trooferism immediately.

I reckon the judge's assistants have bad Google fu.

636 JHW  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:53:46pm

re: #634 DEZes
Maybe all for the best, you're considered too sane.

637 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:53:57pm

re: #620 capitalist piglet

Maybe not, but I don't consider Chris Matthews a serious journalist, either. Anyone who gets a tingle up their leg over a politician has lost his grip, as far as I'm concerned.

Or maybe his grip is TOO tight!!!

// BAD SATT ,,, BAD BAD BAD !

638 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:54:32pm
639 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:54:32pm

The people mainstreaming this stuff should be completely shunned. Why anyone on earth gives pamela geller the time of day is beyond me. And alex jones?!

The inmates are running the asylum and they wonder why we don't want to come along for the ride.

640 Racer X  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:55:16pm

re: #632 VioletTiger

Thanks for the company but it's back to the kitchen, lizards. So far made Belgian waffles, pickles, zuccini bread, potato salad, peach pie. Time to get a roast in the oven. It's a rainy day here.

Oh man!

Dinner at VT's house!

641 midwestgak  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:55:31pm

re: #608 SanFranciscoZionist

. . . I'm from Nancy Pelosi's district. . .

{SanFran} I'm from Obama's district. And Blagojevich's. And Dailey's

John Wayne Gacy was from my district too. Liked to paint pictures of clowns.

642 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:55:40pm

re: #424 avanti

So you are saying a child born of a citizen that was 17 years old at the time her giving birth would not confer citizenship in the USA if she happened to be in Canada on the day of birth ? Seems odd to me. That's less then the five years beyond her 14th birthday.

Yeah, I don't buy that argument. I can't assume that a seventeen-year-old has less right than a twenty-year-old to pass her citizenship on to her child.

643 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:56:44pm

re: #535 doppelganglander

That is the thing that I admire about Barry. I'd hate to have the only bubble I have for the guy burst.

644 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:56:53pm

re: #639 Sharmuta

The people mainstreaming this stuff should be completely shunned. Why anyone on earth gives pamela geller the time of day is beyond me. And alex jones?!

The inmates are running the asylum and they wonder why we don't want to come along for the ride.

So we (and others) ARE shunning them. I'm not excusing the looniness at all, but just like here we find pretty much like minded people. Thats what attracts people to the Joneses and Gellers.

The question is what side has more numbers, and NO, it's not always the loudest/shrillest/ one that gets the most attention thats the majority.

645 DEZes  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:57:02pm

re: #636 JHW

Maybe all for the best, you're considered too sane.

It is curious though.
And thanks for the compliment.

646 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:57:19pm

re: #607 capitalist piglet

I'm curious: How did sane Democrats distance themselves from 9/11 Truthers, "Bush Lied, People Died" BS, Code Pink, and the like? (Genuine question.)

Easy. There are few things at play here:

1. When the 911 Troofers came out, the media was pretty much either able to ignore it, and I'm pretty sure they made few, if any, connections between the troofers and the democratic party.

2. The media has been more than happy to saddle the republicans with the whole nirther thing, as show by the continued news articles headlined "Birth certificate nutjobs pose problem for GOP" etc...

They also conveniently seem to leave out the democrat connections in the nirther movement, such as the Hillary Clinton supporter who was a najor player, and filed one of the more well-known lawsuits in federal court about it.

That's how. A compliant, agenda-driven media.

647 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:57:20pm

Off the rails

648 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:57:35pm

/If Obama was a fake Biden would have leaked it by now.

649 capitalist piglet  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:58:22pm

re: #633 wahabicorridor

He's not really a journalist either. He was Tip O'Neill's press guy and a speech writer for Carter. He's pure politics.

True, and I was aware of that (thank you for the reminder). I just don't think he's the best example to hold up, if one is trying to demonstrate that commenters on the left are more rational than commentators on the right. The only ones nuttier are his colleagues on MSNBC, and those like Randi "Okay, Okay, I Was Drunk" Rhodes.

650 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:58:28pm

re: #648 brookly red

That is so frighteningly funny.

651 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:59:13pm

re: #646 RunningBare

Easy. There are few things at play here:

1. When the 911 Troofers came out, the media was pretty much either able to ignore it, and I'm pretty sure they made few, if any, connections between the troofers and the democratic party.

2. The media has been more than happy to saddle the republicans with the whole nirther thing, as show by the continued news articles headlined "Birth certificate nutjobs pose problem for GOP" etc...

They also conveniently seem to leave out the democrat connections in the nirther movement, such as the Hillary Clinton supporter who was a najor player, and filed one of the more well-known lawsuits in federal court about it.

That's how. A compliant, agenda-driven media.

The New York Times compared Alex Jones to William Jennings Bryan back then.

652 BlueRoses  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:59:14pm

re: #534 Shug

???

I can't find it now Shug but you reposted something because you felt you hadn't been clear.

653 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 12:59:51pm

re: #624 MandyManners

During which election?

This was during the '04 campaign
LGF: Kerry delinks Daily Kos

John Kerry’s campaign site has removed their link to Daily Kos:

In light of the unacceptable statement about the death of Americans made by Daily Kos, we have removed the link to this blog from our website. As John Kerry said in a statement earlier this week, “My deepest sympathies are with the families of those lost today. Americans know that all who serve in Iraq - soldier and civilian alike - do so in an effort to build a better future for Iraqis. These horrific attacks remind us of the viciousness of the enemies of Iraq’s future. United in sadness, we are also united in our resolve that these enemies will not prevail."

654 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:00:09pm

re: #639 Sharmuta

The people mainstreaming this stuff should be completely shunned. Why anyone on earth gives pamela geller the time of day is beyond me. And alex jones?!

The inmates are running the asylum and they wonder why we don't want to come along for the ride.

Ride? No.
Rino.

655 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:00:44pm

re: #565 Charles

You have got to be kidding me. Geller's insane post has more than 290 updings at Yahoo Buzz?!

[Link: buzz.yahoo.com...]

I just went and buzzed this one down, and I suggest all LGF readers do the same.

Well, for what it's worth they're not necessarily "updings"; they don't have up- and down-dings like you do here, just votes. At least some of those are likely "Hey! Look at the sideshow freak!" votes. There's both support and derision echoing through the comments over there.

656 haakondahl  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:00:45pm

Everybody has something to contribute here at LGF. Still waiting on Dr. Cordrell.

657 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:00:45pm

re: #654 jaunte

Touché.

658 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:01:33pm

re: #573 swamprat

It is a well known fact that Obama has had two more chandeliers placed in the whitehouse bedroom at a lowered height, suitable for swinging.

The mirrored ceiling goes in this week.

I should care? The man is a married grown-up. He can have a mirrored ceiling. As long as he pays for it out of his own money.

/

659 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:02:53pm

re: #656 haakondahl

Everybody has something to contribute here at LGF. Still waiting on Dr. Cordrell.

hey, without the good doctor's input this thread would be about 30 comments long...

660 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:03:02pm

re: #646 RunningBare

Easy. There are few things at play here:

1. When the 911 Troofers came out, the media was pretty much either able to ignore it, and I'm pretty sure they made few, if any, connections between the troofers and the democratic party.

2. The media has been more than happy to saddle the republicans with the whole nirther thing, as show by the continued news articles headlined "Birth certificate nutjobs pose problem for GOP" etc...

They also conveniently seem to leave out the democrat connections in the nirther movement, such as the Hillary Clinton supporter who was a najor player, and filed one of the more well-known lawsuits in federal court about it.

That's how. A compliant, agenda-driven media.

Sorry, I don't agree. Sure, the media is covering the Nirther issue, but it's a genuine problem in the base of the GOP. There are a LOT of people who have swallowed this garbage whole -- it hasn't been blown out of proportion at all.

I can't blame this one on the media. It's been fueled by right wing radio and bloggers to a large extent.

661 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:03:05pm

re: #651 Pianobuff

The New York Times compared Alex Jones to William Jennings Bryan back then.

Wow. They had to reach pretty far back for that!

662 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:03:08pm

re: #652 BlueRoses

I can't find it now Shug but you reposted something because you felt you hadn't been clear.

not me. Somebody else hadn't been clear but they clarified and I gave them the all clear.
Are we clear?

663 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:03:11pm

When did they take out Teddy Roosevelt's mirrored ceiling?

664 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:03:50pm

re: #655 SixDegrees

Well, for what it's worth they're not necessarily "updings"; they don't have up- and down-dings like you do here, just votes. At least some of those are likely "Hey! Look at the sideshow freak!" votes. There's both support and derision echoing through the comments over there.

No - there's a button labeled 'Buzz Down' that lets you down-ding something...

665 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:04:15pm

re: #584 Van Helsing

How the devil do the sane distance themselves from this?

Refuse to be drawn into it, and remember that if you get tarred with the crazy brush, it doesn't make you crazy.

666 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:04:32pm

Will someone please enlighten me about this Alex Jones person? I gather he's a radio person? The only talk radio I've ever listened to was Tony Snow and the first I have heard of this Jones person was when people here started to mention him. What gives?

667 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:04:52pm

re: #660 Charles

Sorry, I don't agree. Sure, the media is covering the Nirther issue, but it's a genuine problem in the base of the GOP. There are a LOT of people who have swallowed this garbage whole -- it hasn't been blown out of proportion at all.

I can't blame this one on the media. It's been fueled by right wing radio and bloggers to a large extent.


Fair enough. I dont' disagree, but I also didn't see the media writing "911 truthers pose problems for DNC..." articles, either - even though most of them seemed to be people who could be considered part of the Democrat party's base.

668 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:05:38pm

re: #646 RunningBare

They also conveniently seem to leave out the democrat connections in the nirther movement, such as the Hillary Clinton supporter who was a major player, and filed one of the more well-known lawsuits in federal court about it

Didn't he start the whole crazy movement?

669 doppelganglander  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:05:41pm

re: #626 Pianobuff

Thanks for posting that. I think Running Bare also made a good point - the only reason the Troofers weren't a huge problem for the Dems is because the media didn't make it one.

670 BlueRoses  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:06:00pm

re: #579 Van Helsing

So where's the damn GOP leadership with a simple yet clear statement to the effect of 'Obama is the legitimate POTUS. Period. Now STFU and STFD'.

What's so hard about that? Any one that might be 'alienated' by such a statement I really don't want as part of the party anyway.

Hasn't this gone on long enough?

Why does the GOP have to say something? By insisting they do that you are insisting they 'own' the nirthers.

671 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:06:26pm

re: #666 wahabicorridor

Will someone please enlighten me about this Alex Jones person? I gather he's a radio person? The only talk radio I've ever listened to was Tony Snow and the first I have heard of this Jones person was when people here started to mention him. What gives?

He's an anti-authoritarian in the extreme. Whoever is in power is his enemy, going back to Clinton, on through Bush and now Obama. He believes the two parties are two sides of the same coin, and that there is a secret conspiracy between all the power brokers to move us to a one-world government... a New World Order.

Other than that, he's a totally reasonable guy. /s

672 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:06:51pm

re: #668 Shug

Didn't he start the whole crazy movement?

That's what I recall, yes.

673 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:06:58pm

re: #666 wahabicorridor

He's a conspiracy nut with a radio show.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

674 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:07:05pm

re: #607 capitalist piglet

I'm curious: How did sane Democrats distance themselves from 9/11 Truthers, "Bush Lied, People Died" BS, Code Pink, and the like? (Genuine question.) I just don't remember them addressing these things at all...except once or twice when Code Pink interrupted a Democrat speaking, and got dragged out of a public event.

Remember the one who came within inches of Condi Rice, with the "bloody" hands?

That was pretty crazy too, but I don't remember any Democrats talking about it...did I just miss it?

John Conyers held mock trials in the Congressional Office Building accusing Bush of "war crimes" and invited several members of Congress to sit on the "jury"; the media was invited, too. The "Diebold rigged the election" conspiracy played in the mainstream media following the 2004 elections, still resonates on the Internet to this day. And let's not forget the most famous conspiracy whackadoo of all - Dan Rathers and his "exposure" of the TANG records that had been floating around for years, actively flogged by Rathers and Mapes, who willingly overlooked the obvious fakes they were handed and the mental instability of the provider in favor of televising them as authentic, despite a panel of experts who warned against doing so.

There's been no shortage of lunacy on the Left. The only difference is the attention being paid to it by the media, which seems much happier reporting on it when it's emanating from one side of the political spectrum than the other.

675 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:07:52pm

re: #607 capitalist piglet

I'm curious: How did sane Democrats distance themselves from 9/11 Truthers, "Bush Lied, People Died" BS, Code Pink, and the like? (Genuine question.) I just don't remember them addressing these things at all...except once or twice when Code Pink interrupted a Democrat speaking, and got dragged out of a public event.

Remember the one who came within inches of Condi Rice, with the "bloody" hands?

That was pretty crazy too, but I don't remember any Democrats talking about it...did I just miss it?

To be perfectly honest, I don't think Democrats even identified the Troofers as our own, we just thought of them as crazies. I suggest addressing the Nirthers similarly--except that they seem to be dragging some prominent people into their morass.

676 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:07:56pm

By the way, you can also report a Yahoo Buzz article for being offensive.

[Link: buzz.yahoo.com...]

677 capitalist piglet  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:08:19pm

re: #667 RunningBare

Fair enough. I dont' disagree, but I also didn't see the media writing "911 truthers pose problems for DNC..." articles, either - even though most of them seemed to be people who could be considered part of the Democrat party's base.

I don't remember seeing that either, though I would welcome a correction on that point.

I don't mean to imply we don't have problems, but we don't control the narrative, so it's easy to make our problems look bigger than theirs - and I don't think they necessarily are. It's not fair, but that's life.

678 BlueRoses  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:08:20pm

re: #662 Shug

not me. Somebody else hadn't been clear but they clarified and I gave them the all clear.
Are we clear?

:8-/

679 debutaunt  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:09:16pm

re: #477 avanti

I just commented on the assertion that citizenship might be questionable if the citizen mother had not resisted in the US for 5 years over the age of 14. If she was under 19, that would be impossible. I know it's one of the nirther arguments, but it makes no sense to me.

His Mom resisted in the US! Hilarious!

680 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:09:20pm

They (Nirthers & other Kooks) just cannot stand the fact that Barak Obama is our President. I'm so glad they have an outlet at the FR.

681 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:09:44pm

re: #668 Shug

Didn't he start the whole crazy movement?

Yes:

[Link: www.conservapedia.com...]

It's a little ironic these nirthers are so concerned about following the will of democrats except when it's one they think they can exploit. One democrat getting hundreds of thousands of republicans to make themselves look bad.

Brilliant!

682 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:09:45pm

re: #669 doppelganglander

Thanks for posting that. I think Running Bare also made a good point - the only reason the Troofers weren't a huge problem for the Dems is because the media didn't make it one.

I never saw the 9/11 Troofers as being left-wing or Democratic. As far as I could see it was a pretty non-partisan lunacy.

683 capitalist piglet  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:09:55pm

re: #668 Shug

Didn't he start the whole crazy movement?

Yes. That lawyer friend of hers...what was his name? He's a Democrat insider, and he's one of the primary movers of the Nirther movement in the courts.

684 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:10:23pm

re: #666 wahabicorridor

Will someone please enlighten me about this Alex Jones person? I gather he's a radio person? The only talk radio I've ever listened to was Tony Snow and the first I have heard of this Jones person was when people here started to mention him. What gives?

Alex Jones is a super-star in the bat-shit conspiracy world and current alpha baboon of the Troofer troupe, among many other doubtful distinctions. He started out with the Waco conspiracy mob while still in his teens and has since branched out into all the standard tropes of conspiracisim. His claims have a heavy antisemitic undertone.

685 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:10:37pm

re: #676 Charles

By the way, you can also report a Yahoo Buzz article for being offensive.

[Link: buzz.yahoo.com...]

My pleasure again.

686 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:10:48pm

re: #682 Charles

Hence my current LGF mission statement on my avatar.

687 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:10:53pm

re: #638 Charles

Kerry's Site Delinks Daily Kos

2004 was the turning point for the Dems. After their own pack of loons cost them the previous midterms, and polling (and the ultimate outcome) showed them tanking in 2004 against an unpopular President they should have easily beaten, several finally wised up and started the process of locking the lunatics back in the closet in order to stop repelling the vast moderate middle. It paid off handsomely.

The GOP needs to take this lesson to heart.

688 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:11:01pm

re: #613 JHW

Heh, a whole bunch of people claiming to be Cherokee over there at that Yahoo site and arguing who's more Cherokee. Ward Churchill should be chiming in pretty soon. The Cherokee Nation must number about 50 million right about now if everyone's telling the truth.

Lots of people with a little Cherokee ancestry. They were numerous, and they married out a lot. My husband's g-g-grandfather was Cherokee, his g-grandma speaks the language a little. He's a thoroughly white boy, but proud of the ancestors.

689 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:11:01pm

re: #547 haakondahl

Your sloppy (dishonest?) argument puts me in an awkward position: "landslide" (cf Reagan) doesn't address eligibility at all. If you want to argue vote counts, then argue vote counts. If you want to argue eligibility, then do so. Perhaps you were just typing faster than you were thinking.

Get used to it - it is all about shifting the arguments.

I for one am still waiting for proof of (or even some semblance of support for) the Republican Base's Anti-Semitism.

690 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:11:32pm

re: #671 Pianobuff

Thank you!

there is a secret conspiracy between all the power brokers to move us to a one-world government... a New World Order.

Well, I don't think there's any conspiracy, but there ARE people who would like it - Strobe Talbot wrote a book about it (Clinton admin)

691 capitalist piglet  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:11:41pm

re: #682 Charles

I never saw the 9/11 Troofers as being left-wing or Democratic. As far as I could see it was a pretty non-partisan lunacy.


It seems to be a popular topic on left-wing blogs, but I think it's a popular theme in the Paulian camp, as well. I haven't seen a lot of talk about it among mainstream Republicans though, except to call it crazy.

692 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:11:52pm

re: #676 Charles

By the way, you can also report a Yahoo Buzz article for being offensive.

[Link: buzz.yahoo.com...]

Yeah, but I'd have to login to Yahoo! to do it, and they'd steal all my computer files if I did that.

/

693 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:12:24pm

re: #683 capitalist piglet

Yes. That lawyer friend of hers...what was his name? He's a Democrat insider, and he's one of the primary movers of the Nirther movement in the courts.

The Gaëtan Dugas of Nirtherism

694 Steffan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:12:35pm

re: #552 Killgore Trout

Crazy Pam also picked up on the "Internment/Resettlement Specialist for the Army National Guard" job listing that Stormfront was excited about yesterday.

On checking the USAJOBS website, I found one interesting entry: the Oregon NG is looking for a Security Specialist to work at a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility. Four openings. If you're eligible for a TSSC clearance, you might want to check it out.

A search of National Guard openings in general reveals two things. "Jack" and "Shit."

A search using the specific word "internment" gave me this response:

We're sorry, but we couldn't find any jobs that match your criteria.

For better results, try broadening your search.

The ad she's frothing about is on monster.com. It's fake. The first paragraph doesn't pass the smell test.

The "apply now" button goes to monster.com's online app and not to a DoD or ANG website.

695 Van Helsing  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:13:25pm

re: #591 Ojoe

Join the whigs!

I did.
Modern Whig Party

Ojoe - you're the one I was looking for.
I've looked at their website and didn't see any evidence of nutterism. I'm sure you've looked deeper. Are they on the up and up?

Cuz I'm figgin' sick of the spineless, pandering GOP.

696 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:13:37pm

re: #687 SixDegrees

2004 was the turning point for the Dems. After their own pack of loons cost them the previous midterms, and polling (and the ultimate outcome) showed them tanking in 2004 against an unpopular President they should have easily beaten, several finally wised up and started the process of locking the lunatics back in the closet in order to stop repelling the vast moderate middle. It paid off handsomely.

The GOP needs to take this lesson to heart.

Quite true. Many of us had some fun castigating DU for its ruthless purge of Naderites, but in retrospect it was at least a wise course for their side.

697 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:13:48pm

poll2000.com showed that there are far far fewer 9-11 truthers in the South

698 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:14:10pm

re: #653 shiplord kirel

Thanks!

That was before I found LGF.

699 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:14:29pm

re: #664 Charles

No - there's a button labeled 'Buzz Down' that lets you down-ding something...

Huh. Doesn't show up on my visits for some reason. Maybe you have to be logged in. But thanks; good to know.

700 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:14:44pm

Good grief! They just showed a parking lot full of traded in "clunkers" on Fox, every single one of which looks like it could be my next "new car"!

:-(

701 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:14:51pm

re: #691 capitalist piglet

It seems to be a popular topic on left-wing blogs, but I think it's a popular theme in the Paulian camp, as well. I haven't seen a lot of talk about it among mainstream Republicans though, except to call it crazy.

Yup. That's what I've seen.

Also, just because Ron Paul calls himself a republican, doesn't make him on ;)

702 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:15:25pm

Can I interrupt you guys for a techy question?

I recently bought a new PC with Vista (I actually like Vista a whole bunch). However, LGF was acting funky with IE. I switched to Firefox and all the funk disappeared.

My problem is that the bookmarks (IE Favorites) apparently don't copy over. Can I copy my Favorites to Firefox and if so, what folder do I plop them into?

703 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:16:21pm

re: #688 SanFranciscoZionist

Lots of people with a little Cherokee ancestry. They were numerous, and they married out a lot. My husband's g-g-grandfather was Cherokee, his g-grandma speaks the language a little. He's a thoroughly white boy, but proud of the ancestors.

I'm a tiny part Cherokee.

704 capitalist piglet  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:16:38pm

re: #693 Shug

The Gaëtan Dugas of Nirtherism

I had to look that one up. : )

705 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:16:47pm

re: #702 American Sabra

Can I interrupt you guys for a techy question?

I recently bought a new PC with Vista (I actually like Vista a whole bunch). However, LGF was acting funky with IE. I switched to Firefox and all the funk disappeared.

My problem is that the bookmarks (IE Favorites) apparently don't copy over. Can I copy my Favorites to Firefox and if so, what folder do I plop them into?

Look around - firefox should have an option to "import bookmarks".

706 Nene1  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:17:01pm
Certified under my hand this 15th Day of February 1964

4 Who, unrelated to the boy, would wait two-and--a-half years to get a birth certificate of a then-unremarkable little boy born in a nondescript Kenyan province, and keep it Forty-Five years until that little boy rose to prominence as the leader of a major nation , only to release it to undermine that boy's claim to be the citizen of another nation ?

/Suspicious , I would say.

707 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:18:51pm

re: #706 Nene1

4 Who, unrelated to the boy, would wait two-and--a-half years to get a birth certificate of a then-unremarkable little boy born in a nondescript Kenyan province, and keep it Forty-Five years until that little boy rose to prominence as the leader of a major nation , only to release it to undermine that boy's claim to be the citizen of another nation ?

/Suspicious , I would say.

It's obviously an early analog to cyber-squatting, practiced by someone with infinite patience.

708 capitalist piglet  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:18:58pm

re: #701 RunningBare

Yup. That's what I've seen.

Also, just because Ron Paul calls himself a republican, doesn't make him on ;)

I think he tried running as a Libertarian, but that didn't work out for him as well as running as a Republican. There's no question he's a RINO and freqently at odds with his party...I just wish they could make him go away. Gah.

709 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:19:01pm

re: #703 Sharmuta

I'm a tiny part Cherokee.

I used to attend pow-wows in the south, FL, AL and GA. My Indian guy friends would ask me, "Do you have any Indian in ya?" And I'd say no. And they'd reply, "Would you like some?" lol

710 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:19:07pm

re: #703 Sharmuta

I'm a tiny part Cherokee.

Big toe?
Ring Finger?
Left Elbow??

//

711 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:19:18pm

re: #705 reine.de.tout

Look around - firefox should have an option to "import bookmarks".

ahh thank ye!

712 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:19:40pm

re: #703 Sharmuta

I'm a tiny part Cherokee.

Which part? I hope it's one of the juicy bits ;)

713 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:19:43pm

re: #663 jaunte

When did they take out Teddy Roosevelt's mirrored ceiling?

Edith had it packed when they left the White House.

714 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:19:49pm

The Great Experiment: The Story of Ancient Empires, Modern States, and the Quest for a Global Nation

Talbott, deputy secretary of state in the Clinton administration, makes an eloquent but predictable appeal for progress toward global governance under the auspices of the United Nations, which he sees as humanity's destined path since tribes began forming states, and since states have sought an alternative to international anarchy. The major obstacle to the new order, according to Talbott (Engaging India), is the United States, whose massive power and individualist principles encourage its citizens to regard limiting national authority as unnatural. In the face of cultural resistance, however, presidents from Franklin Roosevelt to Bill Clinton regarded some form of world authority as both a natural development in a nuclear era and a useful element of U.S. foreign policy. The villain of the piece, not surprisingly, is George W. Bush, who Talbott claims asserted America's right to make and enforce rules for other nations, rejected facts that did not support his preconceptions and ignored advice from more experienced foreign-policy hands. The resulting havoc wrought by triumphalism and evangelism, according to the author, will require the careful attention of wiser, more temperate people, presumably in a Democratic administration. While the roots of Talbott's argument run deep, it echoes so much conventional wisdom on the subject that its impact is likely to be minimal. (Jan.)

715 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:20:06pm

re: #682 Charles

I never saw the 9/11 Troofers as being left-wing or Democratic. As far as I could see it was a pretty non-partisan lunacy.

According to the Scripps poll, Democrats were especially likely to believe the 9/11 conspiracy theories.

716 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:20:37pm

re: #710 sattv4u2

Big toe?
Ring Finger?
Left Elbow??

//

Why stop?
Keep going.

/*diving for a foxhole ... just in case he does*

717 JHW  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:20:49pm

re: #688 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes I know. Maybe I being a little smart alec. It's an inside joke among Indian people about Caucasians claiming to be part Indian or having Indian ancestors. When they hear it ,it's "Let me guess, you're part Cherokee, right"?
Invariably, when Caucasians claim Indian ancestors, it's Cherokee. I had a lot of links on this for quite a while, and the Nation itself is very irritated about it, so much so that they demand genealogical proof from the rolls, especially from some minor celebrities and such. The Ward Churchill affair really irritated them. Such people are derisively known as wannabes, and are constantly mocked by Natives.

718 haakondahl  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:21:35pm

re: #668 Shug

Didn't he start the whole crazy movement?

Art Bell.

719 Steffan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:21:36pm

re: #613 JHW

Heh, a whole bunch of people claiming to be Cherokee over there at that Yahoo site and arguing who's more Cherokee. Ward Churchill should be chiming in pretty soon. The Cherokee Nation must number about 50 million right about now if everyone's telling the truth.

Not quite that many. The Cherokee Nation is very very picky

To be eligible for CDIB/Tribal Citizenship with the Cherokee Nation, you must be able to provide documents that connect you to an enrolled lineal ancestor, who is listed on the (DAWES ROLL) FINAL ROLLS OF CITIZENS AND FREEDMEN OF THE FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES, Cherokee Nation with a blood degree. This roll was taken between 1899-1906 of Citizens and Freedmen residing in Indian Territory (now NE Oklahoma).

720 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:21:41pm

re: #716 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Why stop?
Keep going.

/*diving for a foxhole ... just in case he does*

Big toe?
Ring Finger?
Left Elbow??
Ward Churchill?

721 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:21:54pm

re: #708 capitalist piglet

I think he tried running as a Libertarian, but that didn't work out for him as well as running as a Republican. There's no question he's a RINO and freqently at odds with his party...I just wish they could make him go away. Gah.

Yup. Changed to an 'R' to continue getting elected, and to have more input after election.

You remember that old Far Side cartoon? I think we should change it to "Mom! The squirrels have taken Uncle Ron Paul again!"

722 capitalist piglet  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:21:57pm

re: #700 littleoldlady

Good grief! They just showed a parking lot full of traded in "clunkers" on Fox, every single one of which looks like it could be my next "new car"!

:-(

I have to start with a disclaimer, because this came to me through someone else (and I don't have a clunker to trade in, so haven't researched the parameters of the program) - but a caller to talk radio claimed she traded a 2007 vehicle for a new car. (Could that be true? Wow.) That 2007 was destroyed. I can think of several people who might have been very happy with it, whatever mileage it got.

723 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:22:29pm

re: #682 Charles

I never saw the 9/11 Troofers as being left-wing or Democratic. As far as I could see it was a pretty non-partisan lunacy.

There was a Rasmussen poll in 2007 that seems to say something different.

Your text to link...

724 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:22:33pm

re: #709 American Sabra

I used to attend pow-wows in the south, FL, AL and GA. My Indian guy friends would ask me, "Do you have any Indian in ya?" And I'd say no. And they'd reply, "Would you like some?" lol

That line never works as well as I hoped. :(

725 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:22:37pm

re: #712 RunningBare

Which part? I hope it's one of the juicy bits ;)

My maternal line part. My paternal line is another tribe.

726 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:23:13pm

I got a poll
You got a poll
All God's chillens got pollls

727 haakondahl  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:23:24pm

re: #669 doppelganglander

Thanks for posting that. I think Running Bare also made a good point - the only reason the Troofers weren't a huge problem for the Dems is because the media didn't make it one.

The unfortunate counterpoint is that the only reason the Nirthers are a huge problem for Republicans is because they truly are a huge problem for Republicans. As much as I loathe the MSM, I can't fault them for saying our crap smells like crap. The rest is details, and we don't have the standing to go after those; beam, mote, etc.

728 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:23:35pm

re: #720 sattv4u2

Big toe?
Ring Finger?
Left Elbow??
Ward Churchill?

LOL!
Touche!

729 formercorpsman  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:23:38pm

This was my response in a dead thread from a couple of days ago.


re: #549 Flyers1974

Hey Flyers.

I don't want to make this sound like a defense of the nirthers, because it is not. They are the shit birds that they are, and like Buzz so correctly describes them as moths to a flame, they deserve all the scrutiny heaped upon them.

But I think some folks have either a short memory, and just don't accept how bad that really was.

I recall Michael Moore's tirade in 2004, him sitting next to a former President, (personal box I might add) at the DNC for Kerry's acceptance.

As well, I will admit his words not to be a ringing endorsement of trutherism, but at the height of his frontrunner status in 2004, Howard Dean asnwered questions on a D.C. radio station interview as it pertained to the topic.

He was questioned as to prior knowledge. A response followed.

"The most interesting theory that I've heard so far – which is nothing more than a theory, it can't be proved – is that he was warned ahead of time by the Saudis."


"Now, who knows what the real situation is? But the trouble is, by suppressing that kind of information, you lead to those kinds of theories, whether they have any truth to them or not."

I would say, certainly not the repudiation of a President Clinton, when faced with a similar situation.

As well, I would ask you to recall the traction the MSM got out of Cindy Sheehan, as well as the mileage the Democrats got politially while riding her wave.

Last, I will link a poll below. It seems prett credible to me. If you do not wish to read through it all, I understand. At the very least, just take a look at the paragraph next to the last at the bottom.

[Link: newspolls.org...]

730 JHW  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:23:49pm

re: #709 American Sabra

I used to attend pow-wows in the south, FL, AL and GA. My Indian guy friends would ask me, "Do you have any Indian in ya?" And I'd say no. And they'd reply, "Would you like some?" lol

My boss (a Hoopa) uses that one all the time when he's teasing the waitresses in the restaurants. Likes to joke around a lot, lots of funny stories.

731 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:23:56pm

re: #714 wahabicorridor

Strobe Talbott can kiss my individualistic, American ass.

732 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:24:00pm

re: #722 capitalist piglet

I can think of several people who might have been very happy with it, whatever mileage it got.

Starting with ME!

/we have a '95 Neon and a '97 Explorer...both still serviceable but getting a tad long in the tooth

What a HUGE waste destroying those cars! :-(

733 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:24:38pm

re: #717 JHW

Yes I know. Maybe I being a little smart alec. It's an inside joke among Indian people about Caucasians claiming to be part Indian or having Indian ancestors. When they hear it ,it's "Let me guess, you're part Cherokee, right"?
Invariably, when Caucasians claim Indian ancestors, it's Cherokee. I had a lot of links on this for quite a while, and the Nation itself is very irritated about it, so much so that they demand genealogical proof from the rolls, especially from some minor celebrities and such. The Ward Churchill affair really irritated them. Such people are derisively known as wannabes, and are constantly mocked by Natives.

No kidding. And don't EVEN get started on the Plastic Medicine Men that seem to be every freakin where. New Agers suck.

734 Steffan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:24:42pm

re: #702 American Sabra

Can I interrupt you guys for a techy question?

I recently bought a new PC with Vista (I actually like Vista a whole bunch). However, LGF was acting funky with IE. I switched to Firefox and all the funk disappeared.

My problem is that the bookmarks (IE Favorites) apparently don't copy over. Can I copy my Favorites to Firefox and if so, what folder do I plop them into?

Use the Firefox import option. It's on the File tab.

735 JHW  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:25:12pm

re: #719 Steffan

Yep, the Dawes rolls. Still a subject of contention, because of the allotment system.

736 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:25:18pm

re: #724 RunningBare

That line never works as well as I hoped. :(

lol it's an old joke, huh. But I'd say it's the best pickup line ever since it always made me laugh.

737 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:25:31pm

re: #700 littleoldlady

Good grief! They just showed a parking lot full of traded in "clunkers" on Fox, every single one of which looks like it could be my next "new car"!

:-(

Do clunkers have to be running to be traded in? I have this van that will never move again...

738 formercorpsman  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:26:03pm

re: #729 formercorpsman

[Link: newspolls.org...]

739 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:26:21pm

re: #734 Steffan

Use the Firefox import option. It's on the File tab.

Oh ok. I just exported it from IE. I'll import now. Thanks!

740 haakondahl  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:26:24pm

re: #676 Charles

By the way, you can also report a Yahoo Buzz article for being offensive.

[Link: buzz.yahoo.com...]

Also done.

741 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:26:31pm

re: #726 Shug

I got a poll
You got a poll
All God's chillens got pollls

They've got guns,
we've got guns,
all God's chil'en got guns

Groucho Marx, Duck Soup

742 Shug  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:26:47pm

My wife drives a Jeep Grand Cherokee if that gives me any street cred with my native American peeps here.

743 jaunte  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:27:03pm

re: #731 MandyManners

Strobe Talbott can kiss my individualistic, American ass.

The resulting havoc wrought by triumphalism and evangelism, according to the author, will require the careful attention of wiser, more temperate people, presumably in a Democratic administration their own estimation.

744 midwestgak  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:27:27pm

re: #722 capitalist piglet

I have to start with a disclaimer, because this came to me through someone else (and I don't have a clunker to trade in, so haven't researched the parameters of the program) - but a caller to talk radio claimed she traded a 2007 vehicle for a new car. (Could that be true? Wow.) That 2007 was destroyed. I can think of several people who might have been very happy with it, whatever mileage it got.

Find out if your clunker qualifies

745 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:28:02pm

re: #742 Shug

My wife drives a Jeep Grand Cherokee if that gives me any street cred with my native American peeps here.

You're up the Creek for asking.

746 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:28:03pm

re: #722 capitalist piglet

Good grief! They just showed a parking lot full of traded in "clunkers" on Fox, every single one of which looks like it could be my next "new car"!

:-(


I have to start with a disclaimer, because this came to me through someone else (and I don't have a clunker to trade in, so haven't researched the parameters of the program) - but a caller to talk radio claimed she traded a 2007 vehicle for a new car. (Could that be true? Wow.) That 2007 was destroyed. I can think of several people who might have been very happy with it, whatever mileage it got.

They raved about paradise and blew up a parking lot...

747 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:28:07pm

re: #731 MandyManners

Strobe Talbott can kiss my individualistic, American ass.

We heard that he was really pushing for a place in the Obama admin. I thought for sure Hillary would find him a place at State but I guess not.

748 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:28:29pm

re: #743 jaunte

That smug crap don't fly with me. I've always disliked that man.

749 haakondahl  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:28:59pm

re: #689 karmic_inquisitor

Get used to it - it is all about shifting the arguments.

I for one am still waiting for proof of (or even some semblance of support for) the Republican Base's Anti-Semitism.

Cordell is a troll. People admit as much when they say that without his "contribution", this would have been a 30-comment thread at some point in time when it was already hundreds of comments long. That's what trolls do. With one hand.

750 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:29:04pm

re: #736 American Sabra

lol it's an old joke, huh. But I'd say it's the best pickup line ever since it always made me laugh.

That's the problem - it's too funny, even as old as the joke it. So, now I just go with "Wanna see my warclub?".

751 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:29:07pm

re: #737 SanFranciscoZionist

Do clunkers have to be running to be traded in? I have this van that will never move again...

How will you get it to the dealer? ;-)

752 brookly red  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:29:23pm

re: #744 midwestgak

Find out if your clunker qualifies

do you have to prove the you own the car?

753 debutaunt  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:29:40pm

re: #664 Charles

No - there's a button labeled 'Buzz Down' that lets you down-ding something...

It isn't obvious, but it's there.

754 formercorpsman  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:29:42pm

re: #714 wahabicorridor

Yes, that United Nations. The Oil for Food United Nations.

It will be a party.

755 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:29:44pm

re: #747 wahabicorridor

We heard that he was really pushing for a place in the Obama admin. I thought for sure Hillary would find him a place at State but I guess not.

Maybe he wanted to have a higher position.

756 capitalist piglet  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:30:25pm

re: #744 midwestgak

Find out if your clunker qualifies

Very useful link! Thank you. I don't own a clunker, but both of my vehicles use some gas...I'm going to look, just for fun.

757 haakondahl  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:30:56pm

re: #736 American Sabra

lol it's an old joke, huh. But I'd say it's the best pickup line ever since it always made me laugh.

Got any lizard in ya?

758 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:31:00pm

re: #717 JHW

Yes I know. Maybe I being a little smart alec. It's an inside joke among Indian people about Caucasians claiming to be part Indian or having Indian ancestors. When they hear it ,it's "Let me guess, you're part Cherokee, right"?
Invariably, when Caucasians claim Indian ancestors, it's Cherokee. I had a lot of links on this for quite a while, and the Nation itself is very irritated about it, so much so that they demand genealogical proof from the rolls, especially from some minor celebrities and such. The Ward Churchill affair really irritated them. Such people are derisively known as wannabes, and are constantly mocked by Natives.

No, I do get that part. :) It's just complicated by the fact that there are an awful lot of people with a tad of Cherokee out there.

But the unhealthy fascination with access to authenticity through NA culture is--well--unhealthy. And must be irritating as hell. I get a little of it with celebrities who discover Jewish grandpas.

759 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:31:03pm

re: #748 MandyManners

That smug crap don't fly with me. I've always disliked that man.

heh. He IS a smug piece of work. I think he was at Oxford w/Bill - that's how they met.

760 doppelganglander  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:31:57pm

re: #723 rwdflynavy

There was a Rasmussen poll in 2007 that seems to say something different.

Your text to link...

Thanks. That seems to confirm my memory and general impression, that Trooferism was closely tied to BDS.

761 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:32:12pm

re: #751 littleoldlady

How will you get it to the dealer? ;-)

Hire midgets. They can run to power it, like a gerbil wheel. I mean, now that Dwarf-Tossing is being banned everywhere, they need jobs. ;)

762 The Other Les  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:32:14pm

Sigh...

Okay, I have a question for all of the folks out there who are obsessed about the birth cirtificate:

Even if Barack Obama was found ineligible to hold the office of President of the United States as a result of the circumstances of his birth, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT HE WOULD STEP DOWN FROM THAT OFFICE OR THAT THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS (WHICH IS CONTROLLED BY HIS PARTY) WOULD IN ANY WAY COMPEL HIM TO LEAVE?

763 midwestgak  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:32:24pm

re: #752 brookly red

do you have to prove the you own the car?

No sarc tag so I'm assuming your question is sincere. Click on the link and find out the parameters.

764 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:33:38pm

gotta go lizards, later...

765 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:34:05pm

re: #763 midwestgak

No sarc tag so I'm assuming your question is sincere. Click on the link and find out the parameters.

If you live in the car, vcan you get a home improvement loan for it?

RV's FOR URBAN OUTDOORSMEN

Kills 2 birds with one loan!

766 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:34:06pm

re: #725 Sharmuta

My maternal line part. My paternal line is another tribe.

My hubby's a tad Cherokee on mom's side, and a tad Creek on dad's side.

His mom also swears there's some black ancestors. Can't tell if she knows this for sure, or is just annoying the rest of the family with it.

If she's right, our kids will have ancestors from four continents. Cool, no?

767 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:34:13pm

re: #749 haakondahl

Cordell is a troll. People admit as much when they say that without his "contribution", this would have been a 30-comment thread at some point in time when it was already hundreds of comments long. That's what trolls do. With one hand.

cordell doesn't understand, it seems, that folks here aren't going to simply accept his word that something is a "fact", without some sort of back-up information, and a link to a poll analysis that asserts something that cannot be found in the poll's demographic data does NOT make something a "fact".

768 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:34:53pm

re: #762 The Other Les

EXACTLY! This activity is a waste of time and energy.

769 midwestgak  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:34:55pm

re: #756 capitalist piglet

Very useful link! Thank you. I don't own a clunker, but both of my vehicles use some gas...I'm going to look, just for fun.

Let me know what you find.

770 BignJames  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:35:25pm

re: #700 littleoldlady

Good grief! They just showed a parking lot full of traded in "clunkers" on Fox, every single one of which looks like it could be my next "new car"!

:-(

Wait 'til they disable the engine, then it'll be like my new car.

771 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:35:35pm

re: #525 Charles

From Atlas Shrieks:

I saw a tabloid at the checkout at Kroger the other day with the headline "Obama's Gay Lover Works In White House" (or something similar)...the tabloids put this crap out because there's money in it, the kooks put this sort of crap (like Nirtherism) out because they want to believe it.

772 midwestgak  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:36:49pm

re: #765 sattv4u2

If you live in the car, vcan you get a home improvement loan for it?

RV's FOR URBAN OUTDOORSMEN

Kills 2 birds with one loan!

Good one.

773 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:37:13pm

re: #722 capitalist piglet

I have to start with a disclaimer, because this came to me through someone else (and I don't have a clunker to trade in, so haven't researched the parameters of the program) - but a caller to talk radio claimed she traded a 2007 vehicle for a new car. (Could that be true? Wow.) That 2007 was destroyed. I can think of several people who might have been very happy with it, whatever mileage it got.

It's all about mileage; the stated goal of the program is to get low-mileage cars off the road and replace them with high-mileage cars. Age doesn't matter, except that cars more than 25 years old are not accepted.

This is actually a valid point of criticism of the program. Those cars require energy to produce, and that energy isn't amortized over several years when you accept newer cars the way it is for older models. Also, simply crushing the trade-ins wastes more energy; they contain salvageable parts that are probably worth far more than the value of the trade-in itself, which could be used to recoup at least some of the program's cost. And again, these are parts which require energy to produce. From an environmental standpoint, the program almost certainly fails to reduce energy consumption when the energy cost of production is taken into account.

774 BlueRoses  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:37:13pm

re: #733 RunningBare

No kidding. And don't EVEN get started on the Plastic Medicine Men that seem to be every freakin where. New Agers suck.

Not any worse than Kaballah freaks Madonna included.

775 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:37:24pm

re: #758 SanFranciscoZionist

No, I do get that part. :) It's just complicated by the fact that there are an awful lot of people with a tad of Cherokee out there.

But the unhealthy fascination with access to authenticity through NA culture is--well--unhealthy. And must be irritating as hell. I get a little of it with celebrities who discover Jewish grandpas.

The only time it irritates me is when someone will argue against the ndns on some issue, whether it's casinos, fishing rights, health care, whathaveyou, and they almost always end up pulling out the, "Hey, my great-great-great-grand grandfather's hairdressers' second cousin was a cherokee princess!" card ROTFL

776 Empire1  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:37:52pm

re: #717 JHW

Family legend claims some Indian ancestry, but Mom's genealogical research didn't show anything, so legend is all it is, but I'd like to think it's true, at least. Not Cherokee, though -- Comanche.

Or Apache would be nice, too. Hey, TFK, wanna adopt me?

777 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:38:44pm

re: #750 RunningBare

That's the problem - it's too funny, even as old as the joke it. So, now I just go with "Wanna see my warclub?".

So, how many girls HAVE you successfully pulled using these terrible pick-up lines?

778 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:38:46pm

re: #744 midwestgak

My 16 year old Neon doesn't qualify?!

Based on our most current fuel economy data it looks like this vehicle gets more than 18 mpg and DOES NOT QUALIFY for the CARS program.

/boy if there ever was a CLUNKER, that car is IT.
//I hope she didn't hear that...she's sensitive. ;-)

779 avanti  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:39:00pm

re: #722 capitalist piglet

I have to start with a disclaimer, because this came to me through someone else (and I don't have a clunker to trade in, so haven't researched the parameters of the program) - but a caller to talk radio claimed she traded a 2007 vehicle for a new car. (Could that be true? Wow.) That 2007 was destroyed. I can think of several people who might have been very happy with it, whatever mileage it got.

I'd call bullshit on that one. I can't think of many cars that get 18MPG or less in 2007 that would not be worth $4500 in trade. Maybe a base model import, but they get way too good mileage. I saw a video on Hot Air about a decent looking Volvo's engine being trashed in the CFC program. Many of the posters described it as "almost new" and some said they'd buy it for over the rebate if given the chance.
Since I'm a car guy, I knew it was a 91 Volvo with a clean retail book of around $2000 and who knows if the car had issues. The truck I traded on the CFC had a decent book, but not close to $4500 and the windshield was busted, the front suspension was shot and I stripped off everything of value that would not make it undriveable.

780 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:39:03pm

re: #638 Charles

Kerry's Site Delinks Daily Kos

One of the few things the Kerry camp has done right...

781 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:39:40pm

re: #751 littleoldlady

How will you get it to the dealer? ;-)

I figure if we put it in neutral, we can probably roll it--only a few blocks.

782 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:40:33pm

re: #778 littleoldlady

My 16 year old Neon doesn't qualify?!


/boy if there ever was a CLUNKER, that car is IT.
//I hope she didn't hear that...she's sensitive. ;-)

A gentleman never snags and tells.

783 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:41:52pm

re: #777 SanFranciscoZionist

So, how many girls HAVE you successfully pulled using these terrible pick-up lines?

A gentleman never snags and tells.

(stupid screen refreshed as I was about to click quote, and I replied to the wrong post. On some level, it's pretty damned funny if you're really really into cars)

784 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:42:33pm

re: #774 BlueRoses

Not any worse than Kaballah freaks Madonna included.

Actually, when I'm not screaming, I try to figure that the Kabala freaks are making me more sensitive, because now I'm closer to understanding what Indians have been going through with the plastic medicine men for generations.

It's--good for me--that's it...

785 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:43:46pm

re: #775 RunningBare

The only time it irritates me is when someone will argue against the ndns on some issue, whether it's casinos, fishing rights, health care, whathaveyou, and they almost always end up pulling out the, "Hey, my great-great-great-grand grandfather's hairdressers' second cousin was a cherokee princess!" card ROTFL

Lord have mercy. They actually pull that?

Feh.

786 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:44:29pm

re: #750 RunningBare

That's the problem - it's too funny, even as old as the joke it. So, now I just go with "Wanna see my warclub?".

Gosh, you sound vaguely familiar. Ever been to the SE powwows? lol

787 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:44:58pm

re: #784 SanFranciscoZionist

Actually, when I'm not screaming, I try to figure that the Kabala freaks are making me more sensitive, because now I'm closer to understanding what Indians have been going through with the plastic medicine men for generations.

It's--good for me--that's it...

Culture Vultures suck in general, no matter what culture is having their spirituality stolen. Even more galling is that in many parts of the country, various nations were not even allowed to practice their spiritual beliefs, rituals, dances, etc... but the damned new agers were able to not only steal it and do it, but also SELL it. ARGH!

788 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:45:31pm

Husband is offering incentives to get me off the computer. Must go...

789 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:45:41pm

re: #786 American Sabra

Gosh, you sound vaguely familiar. Ever been to the SE powwows? lol

In the late 80s, yeah.

790 callahan23  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:46:51pm

re: #788 SanFranciscoZionist

Husband is offering incentives to get me off the computer. Must go...

Have fun!

791 capitalist piglet  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:46:57pm

re: #778 littleoldlady

My 16 year old Neon doesn't qualify?!


/boy if there ever was a CLUNKER, that car is IT.
//I hope she didn't hear that...she's sensitive. ;-)

It can't tell me whether my Nissan 350Z Roadster (with 3500 miles on it) qualifies, though I would certainly imagine not.

The idea of the engine being seized and that car being crushed makes me sick.

792 JHW  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:48:27pm

re: #758 SanFranciscoZionist

My employer, most of my co-workers, my youngest aunt and wife are full-blood Natives,a word they generally dislike (they prefer the name of their Nation, Indian doesn't bother them generally), all from a different Nation or tribe, all with a great sense of humor, but wannabes irritate the hell out of them, especially the seemingly huge number of people claiming to be part Cherokee. A lot of this has to do with dilution of treaty rights by admitting marginal members with less than stellar documentation. Here in Washington that can be timber or fishing rights. There are still some full-blooded Indians trying to get federal recognition for their historical tribe such as the Cowlitz Tribe , who, IIRC only recently got Federal recognition. Their chairman was also an employer of mine for several years . Their, and others in the same historical situation, long effort for this also accounts for some of the hostility for wannabes. Me, I can claim no Indian ancestry myself, just English and Finnish as far back as I can determine, (early 1700s/1800s depending on maternal/paternal). I'd catch hell if I tried, maybe cold supper too.

793 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:48:50pm

re: #791 capitalist piglet

It can't tell me whether my Nissan 350Z Roadster (with 3500 miles on it) qualifies, though I would certainly imagine not.

The idea of the engine being seized and that car being crushed makes me sick.

Me too! I love that car!

794 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:49:07pm

re: #726 Shug

I got a poll
You got a poll
All God's chillens got pollls

All your polls are belong to us.

My poll kicks your poll's ass!

795 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:52:48pm

re: #792 JHW

My employer, most of my co-workers, my youngest aunt and wife are full-blood Natives,a word they generally dislike (they prefer the name of their Nation, Indian doesn't bother them generally), all from a different Nation or tribe, all with a great sense of humor, but wannabes irritate the hell out of them, especially the seemingly huge number of people claiming to be part Cherokee. A lot of this has to do with dilution of treaty rights by admitting marginal members with less than stellar documentation. Here in Washington that can be timber or fishing rights. There are still some full-blooded Indians trying to get federal recognition for their historical tribe such as the Cowlitz Tribe , who, IIRC only recently got Federal recognition. Their chairman was also an employer of mine for several years . Their, and others in the same historical situation, long effort for this also accounts for some of the hostility for wannabes. Me, I can claim no Indian ancestry myself, just English and Finnish as far back as I can determine, (early 1700s/1800s depending on maternal/paternal). I'd catch hell if I tried, maybe cold supper too.

Funny thing is, though, when times are bad, those wannabes are nowhere to be seen. Big time backlash against the Makah whaling? Use brown skinned ndns took a LOT of crap, even if we were not Makah. But the wannabes, well, they just kep their mouths shut and didn't have to deal with the crap. Same thing when the fishing rights issue rears it's head. They are nowhere to be seen.

But, when things go back to normal, then they come crawling back out of their hidey holes all "Yeah, that's right, I'm an indian... blah blah blah..."

Next time we're on the receiving end of a public backlash again, I'll have to start giving the pissed off people maps to the friggin wannabe's houses.

796 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:53:33pm

re: #789 RunningBare

In the late 80s, yeah.

We may have run into each other. My g/f was head lady at the Ocala powwow for years. Silversmith and artist she was. I watched her booth when she danced. Was a lot of fun.

I was a new age Native American freakshow until I started attending the powwows and met some Real Indians. What an eyeopener that was.

797 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:53:40pm

By the way, JHW - you ever run into any of those "Rainbow Tribe" pukes?

798 debutaunt  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:55:54pm

re: #767 reine.de.tout

cordell doesn't understand, it seems, that folks here aren't going to simply accept his word that something is a "fact", without some sort of back-up information, and a link to a poll analysis that asserts something that cannot be found in the poll's demographic data does NOT make something a "fact".

But if it's repeated endlessly, apparently that will make it true.

799 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:56:52pm

re: #795 RunningBare

Follow the money trail. That was all that Plastic Medicine was about. It was never about N.A. rights or real issues effecting N.A. people. It was about what kind of seminar can I put on to bring the most $. Sick sick stuff.

800 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:57:29pm

re: #796 American Sabra

We may have run into each other. My g/f was head lady at the Ocala powwow for years. Silversmith and artist she was. I watched her booth when she danced. Was a lot of fun.

I was a new age Native American freakshow until I started attending the powwows and met some Real Indians. What an eyeopener that was.

We probably did LOL. It's a small world. I enjoy watching the dancing. I dont' do it myself. People are pretty into it, especially if their a good purse to be had. I'm content to help watch a booth for someone every so often. Unless it's a booth for selling jewelry to raise funds for a cop-killer. Had that happen to me once. I was pretty pissed.

801 Render  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:57:52pm

Didn't anybody notice the website that drcordell's nic links to?

TalkingPointsMemo...

The website that insists that Israel give up the West Bank (as in "all Jews must leave").

The website that insists that Jerusalem should be an "undivided city" (as in "all Jews must leave").

The website that insists that Israel unilaterally give up its nuclear weapons (as in "please make it easier for our Muslim friends to kill you all").

=

drcordell: You link your online nic to a website that openly panders for the destruction of the only Jewish nation state on the planet and all that that entails for the Jewish residents of that nation, and then you come here to lecture The Lizards about American racism? You pointed your finger at the American South in its entirety and American Christians as a whole, and you screamed "racism."

You link your online nic to an anti-war, anti-George W Bush, pro-terrorist website and then you come in here to lecture us about right and wrong?

Go back to that (other) rap/porn site you came from.

COLLECTIVE
MEMORY,
R

802 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:58:01pm

re: #795 RunningBare

Harley Swiftdeer comes to mind :)

803 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 1:59:40pm

re: #798 debutaunt

But if it's repeated endlessly, apparently that will make it true.

Yes, that's one of the things I found frustrating.

If the assertion he made (and that was in the article) is true, I would like to know it, but none of the actual contained any information to indicate what he said was true.

804 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 2:00:14pm

re: #802 American Sabra

Harley Swiftdeer comes to mind :)

Ugh. That deer tribe nonsense... I'm gonna go hurl now.

805 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 2:02:33pm

re: #803 reine.de.tout

Yes, that's one of the things I found frustrating.

If the assertion he made (and that was in the article) is true, I would like to know it, but none of the actual DATA contained any information to indicate what he said was true.

PIMF

806 JHW  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 2:04:33pm

re: #795 RunningBare

I loved it when the Makahs gave some of those hippies a "bath" in the ocean when they tried to interfere with the whale hunt. They asserted their treaty rights, point made, and showed the hypocrisy of some of those claiming to be in touch with nature and Native culture and all that. Since then, they haven't had more than one or two hunts, but they showed that their rights were not to be diluted. Where I live, timber and fisheries rights are more relevant, with the local Nation taking a leading role in managing their own affairs and trying to rebuild their land base which had undergone severe dilution due to the allotment system. This also led to mismanagement by the BIA on the land-base (forced logging when owners didn't want to sell for example) and a nightmare managing land that, under the allotment system, allowed sometimes hundreds of descendants to be tracked down for a single 80 or 40 [acre] allotment.

807 JHW  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 2:07:16pm

re: #797 RunningBare

By the way, JHW - you ever run into any of those "Rainbow Tribe" pukes?

No, I don't think so. I live in a pretty rural part of western Washington. Isn't that a Southwest US bunch?

808 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 2:07:51pm

RENDERRR! :-)

809 Render  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 2:10:39pm

re: #808 littleoldlady

Hiya LoL! Been sneakin Fruitcups in the AM when nobody was lookin...

NEW
CHAINSAW
BLADES,
R

810 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 2:10:41pm

re: #806 JHW

I loved it when the Makahs gave some of those hippies a "bath" in the ocean when they tried to interfere with the whale hunt.

I enjoy that a lot. Good times.

Where I live, timber and fisheries rights are more relevant, with the local Nation taking a leading role in managing their own affairs and trying to rebuild their land base which had undergone severe dilution due to the allotment system.

The Boldt decision caused quite a fair amount of tension, that's for sure.

Funny thing is - a lot of nations etc were moved off of their own land, and put on land that was considered "worthless" to the whites. But eventually, the whites decided that maybe it had some value afterall, and they wanted it again (The Black Hills, with the gold, and the custer thing for example) and so in many cases they pulled every trick in the book to snip off pieces of the alloted land bit by bit by bit... It is still happening.

It also raises the issue of the recent case in the news about the cemetary that was dug up and reused, etc... with people calling it a "desecration" and going on and on about how "horrible" it is. Yet, I bet not one of those people would have a thing to say it if was one of OUR "cemetaries". They'd just build a mall on it.

811 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 2:11:02pm

re: #806 JHW

I loved it when the Makahs gave some of those hippies a "bath" in the ocean when they tried to interfere with the whale hunt. They asserted their treaty rights, point made, and showed the hypocrisy of some of those claiming to be in touch with nature and Native culture and all that. Since then, they haven't had more than one or two hunts, but they showed that their rights were not to be diluted. Where I live, timber and fisheries rights are more relevant, with the local Nation taking a leading role in managing their own affairs and trying to rebuild their land base which had undergone severe dilution due to the allotment system. This also led to mismanagement by the BIA on the land-base (forced logging when owners didn't want to sell for example) and a nightmare managing land that, under the allotment system, allowed sometimes hundreds of descendants to be tracked down for a single 80 or 40 [acre] allotment.

Ouch. If we're talking about the Straits area, a dip in there results in seriously painful nut-retraction, to the point where it'll be days before they come down again.

Good for them.

812 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 2:11:17pm

re: #807 JHW

No, I don't think so. I live in a pretty rural part of western Washington. Isn't that a Southwest US bunch?

They are all over up here. Especially in the greater puget sound area.

813 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 2:11:51pm

re: #809 Render

YOU don't have to sneak! :-)

How have you been?!

814 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 2:17:01pm

re: #804 RunningBare

Ugh. That deer tribe nonsense... I'm gonna go hurl now.

Ooof I could tell you some stories. I met these people. Not that I'm proud to admit it, but actually it was because of them I ended up meeting up with some good folks. As I say, it was an eyeopener.

Another line that the fake Indians used to say is "Do you have any blood?" meaning, Indian blood. So one evening during a 49er, we were hanging out with some Kiowa folks and they asked me if I was Indian. I said, "No I don't have any blood" thinking I was being oh-so-clever-and-cool. They busted out laughing, "Well what's keeping you alive then?!" Gads I felt like an idiot. Actually, that among other things, made me realize how gullible I had been.

815 JHW  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 2:17:25pm

re: #811 SixDegrees

Yes that was in the Straits, about 1998 or so. I admit to getting a good laugh over it, we'd (my occupation, loggers) had been fighting some of those self-righteous urbanites for several years with little success, and it was nice to see them get taken down a peg or two.

816 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 2:22:19pm

re: #814 American Sabra

Ooof I could tell you some stories. I met these people. Not that I'm proud to admit it, but actually it was because of them I ended up meeting up with some good folks. As I say, it was an eyeopener.

Another line that the fake Indians used to say is "Do you have any blood?" meaning, Indian blood. So one evening during a 49er, we were hanging out with some Kiowa folks and they asked me if I was Indian. I said, "No I don't have any blood" thinking I was being oh-so-clever-and-cool. They busted out laughing, "Well what's keeping you alive then?!" Gads I felt like an idiot. Actually, that among other things, made me realize how gullible I had been.

ROTFLMAO. Nice... Laughter IS the best medicine, after all ennit?

(Get it? Medicine? I slay me)

817 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 2:50:29pm

re: #816 RunningBare

ROTFLMAO. Nice... Laughter IS the best medicine, after all ennit?

(Get it? Medicine? I slay me)

rofl! They were so nice to me about it. All the education I ever needed in those few minutes.

818 mfarmer1  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 2:50:45pm

The letters I constantly get from Barrister Obosi Williams from Lagos telling me about my next of kin worth gazillions who died recently in a horrific plane crash (God rest their souls) have more credibility than this.

819 Mr. Sandman  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 2:53:34pm

re: #525 Charles

From Atlas Shrieks:

And also I'm pretty sure it's not CNN who promoted that questionable Palin divorce story, just a blogger who also happens to separately do freelance work sometimes for CNN; this story was not reported by CNN. It's as if these fringe right-wingers want so desperately to believe the mainstream media to be against them, so they twist and distort things to willfully delude themselves to believe this. And of course Geller's hate of CNN is especially ironic when it did do exactly what she wanted, i.e., reported on and spread the Obama birth certificate conspiracy theory, through Lou Dobbs. In fact, it is highly likely that it's the network, through Lou Dobbs, who caused this conspiracy theory, before moving around mostly only in relatively small lunatic circles, to blow up into a full fledged pandemic of craziness.

820 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 2:56:30pm

re: #800 RunningBare

We probably did LOL. It's a small world. I enjoy watching the dancing. I dont' do it myself. People are pretty into it, especially if their a good purse to be had. I'm content to help watch a booth for someone every so often. Unless it's a booth for selling jewelry to raise funds for a cop-killer. Had that happen to me once. I was pretty pissed.

lol sorry I missed this comment!

Well I have another story that sounds somewhat similar to what you said. Really some bad stuff. I didn't dance either. Always wanted to but never did. I miss a lot of those folks. They sure do know how to throw a good party :)

821 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 2:56:31pm
822 Mr. Sandman  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 3:03:38pm

re: #819 Mr. Sandman

Crazy promotion of fascism (literally--no exaggeration or figure of speech), from an Atlas Shrugs commenter, regarding the questionable Palin divorce (which, like I said, was not even reported by CNN, except in these' nuts' pea-brain imaginations, whereas CNN did report on and ignite the birther craziness):

This is nothing short of an act of treason and sedition by CNN.

The republican are just as much a part of the problem, because if we had real conservatives in the GOP, then they would be up in arms and proposing that, unless CNN comes clean and publishes public admissions and explainations of why it has done what it has, then :
1) Treason and sedition charges will be laid against the journalists and editors responsible.
2) CNN will be shut down, and it`s executives fined to the point where they lose everything then own.

The republicans should be out there every day telling the American people about the 5th Column (the MSM) that is working to destroy this country.

Posted by: GGZ %P% Sunday, August 02, 2009 at 12:24 AM

823 Steffan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 3:06:49pm

re: #792 JHW

My employer, most of my co-workers, my youngest aunt and wife are full-blood Natives,a word they generally dislike (they prefer the name of their Nation, Indian doesn't bother them generally), all from a different Nation or tribe, all with a great sense of humor, but wannabes irritate the hell out of them, especially the seemingly huge number of people claiming to be part Cherokee. A lot of this has to do with dilution of treaty rights by admitting marginal members with less than stellar documentation. Here in Washington that can be timber or fishing rights. There are still some full-blooded Indians trying to get federal recognition for their historical tribe such as the Cowlitz Tribe , who, IIRC only recently got Federal recognition. Their chairman was also an employer of mine for several years . Their, and others in the same historical situation, long effort for this also accounts for some of the hostility for wannabes. Me, I can claim no Indian ancestry myself, just English and Finnish as far back as I can determine, (early 1700s/1800s depending on maternal/paternal). I'd catch hell if I tried, maybe cold supper too.

Here in California, it's often casino income. One old gentleman I knew from the Soboba band who was on SSI brought in a check he received for some $50K.

Some people in my family claim to be part Cherokee, but I've never bothered with looking it up. Where my family originally comes from, I think half the people in the area claim Cherokee blood (western KY).

824 RunningBare  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 3:19:15pm

re: #820 American Sabra

I miss a lot of those folks. They sure do know how to throw a good party :)

Oh yeah :) A lot of good times in the past that way.

825 JHW  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 3:19:53pm

re: #823 Steffan

I've heard that's getting to be quite the thing in CA now with all the casinos being built. Some very small bands are building casinos, more power to them . I do know one fellow that's a full blood Cherokee, originally from Jackson county, N.C., he came here (WA) like many Carolinians several decades ago to work in the woods. He's mentioned what we were discussing a couple times, but it doesn't bother him too much, he just laughs it off. The timber industry was/is heavily Native and I've met people from a multitude of tribal origins over the years, including a few from Maine that could speak only a little English. Sometimes there is a bit of rivalry too, we had quite an influx of Canadian Natives in the '80s that really didn't get along with their local counterparts, probably an age-old thing, along with competition for work.

826 Steffan  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 3:20:37pm

re: #821 C.Jones

Citizen Wells is one of the major blogs pushing this entire insane Obama is a space martian business… Look at this photo and tell me if you truly think for one moment that it’s authentic. Please… I love the small bit of peanut butter smeared on for the added effect!
Citizen Wells
Obama Kenyan, Kenyan birth certificate, Orly Taitz, smoking gun, Obama not natural born citizen, Usurper, Mombasa Kenya birth certificate

Of course it's not authentic.

Kenya is, AFAIK, a member of the Commonwealth of Nations.

One thing you can rely on about Commonwealth nations: Birth record forms are printed in RED. They use blue or black ink to fill the form in. The ones I've seen from that time (mostly from Canada and the UK) were handwritten.

Unfortunately, we can't do a throbbing certificate display because you can be sure they will never scan a clear copy of that POS.

827 SecondComing  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 5:07:40pm

I saw Orly Taitz on Colbert. I thought it was all a joke. I thought her name Orly Taitz was some joke; "O rly? thanks" and I thought her with her thick accent was part of the gag questioning someone else's citizenship.

828 ihateronpaul  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 5:35:18pm

re: #10 brookly red

Funny thing. I can think of 3 nirthers I know personally (OK, I live in NYC), all 3 are white, single, liberal women over 40 that supported Hillary. This may be more than a Republican thing.

yeah, it is a RACIST thing. duh.

829 JacksonTn  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 5:37:03pm

re: #10 brookly red

Funny thing. I can think of 3 nirthers I know personally (OK, I live in NYC), all 3 are white, single, liberal women over 40 that supported Hillary. This may be more than a Republican thing.

BR ... the nirther crap started with Hillary supporters ... Larry Johnson and others really pushed it ... I know the republicans ran with it ... but it started with Hillary supporters ... I know because I was a Hillary supporter and I saw it from the start ... I never believed it and they just started digging in ... dog with a bone ...

830 Egregious Philbin  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 6:10:43pm

OK, head nutcase at FR is now calling it a fraud, due to the fact that it obviously is one, but the nuts at FR blame Obama for the fraud.

Seriously, you can't manufacture stupid this stupid.

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

831 the_thermonuclear_pickle  Sun, Aug 2, 2009 11:08:39pm

Here's my question:

My basic understanding is these republican fringe wing-nuts want to invalidate the votes of the American public 7/8 months into a presidency.

First of all, America is already so far in an economic gutter that the last thing it needs is a political disaster of the "lack-of-president" order.

Second of all, who do these wing-nuts imagine will take over once Obama crawls back to his country of birth (Kenya-stan :P)?

If these guys share a brain between the lot of them, I'll be much surprised.


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