Pogue: Amazon Kindle vs. Barnes and Noble eBooks

Technology • Views: 3,802

David Pogue, author of Mac OS X Leopard: The Missing Manual (a book I highly recommend even if you think you’re already a Mac expert) has a good comparison of Amazon’s Kindle with the new Barnes and Noble eBook offerings: State of the Art - Amazon’s E-Book Rival, Barnes and Noble, a Paper Tiger, for Now.

UPDATE at 8/7/09 12:25:07 pm:

Here’s Pogue’s “I Hate My Cell Phone” film festival:

Youtube Video

Jump to bottom

132 comments
1 zombie  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:19:28pm

EBook duel at dawn!

2 Kragar  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:19:37pm

I still say Thunderdome is the best way to settle this.

3 Randall Gross  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:20:57pm

You can download all the public domain books in Google books in PDF format already, and email them to your Kindle...

4 yochanan  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:21:51pm

for now i will stick to dead tree books.

5 zombie  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:22:04pm

The Barnes & Noble competition for the Kindle will be called the KiBNdle.

Not as easy to say, but it has the branding embedded in the name.

6 Cato the Elder  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:23:05pm

But since Amazon refuses to clean up outright fraud on the Kindle Store (search "Jimmy Dale", sort by average review, and you'll see what I mean), Barnes and Noble may have a chink to work on.

I like my Kindle, but I'm currently more than a little disgusted with Amazon.

7 zombie  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:23:46pm

re: #3 Thanos

You can download all the public domain books in Google books in PDF format already, and email them to your Kindle...

Yeah, I'm a little mystified by this whole thing about eBook formats.

I mean, I've already got a way to read ebooks on my computer -- it's called the pdf format. Just double click on the file and read it. What's so hard about that?

I don't care where the content comes from or what the format is, frankly.

8 zombie  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:25:43pm

re: #4 yochanan

for now i will stick to dead tree books.

But think of all the siliconifers that had to be chopped down to make the Kindles.

Tim-berrr!

9 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:26:35pm

OT: Yay! Another zombie movie. NSFW.

10 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:26:41pm

Just posted this video above:

11 acwgusa  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:26:42pm

The minute a decent color ereader hits the market, my bookself goes into the fireplace!

12 Cato the Elder  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:26:47pm

re: #3 Thanos

You can download all the public domain books in Google books in PDF format already, and email them to your Kindle...

And what you get is an image file, readable (sometimes) but NOT searchable, mark-up-able, or dictionary-able. Nice, but not an "e-book". An image file.

13 Kragar  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:27:16pm

Important note: Cool Guys Don't Look At Explosions

14 Cato the Elder  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:28:05pm

re: #10 Charles

Just posted this video above:


Ha! The latest New Yorker has a great cartoon.

Experimental theater production.

Guy in beard standing in front of audience says, "Please turn on your cell phones."

15 yochanan  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:29:19pm

re: #10 Charles

got rid of my cell phone 10 years ago don't want one except for when i travel out of town. then i can just get one of the tossable things.

16 zombie  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:29:39pm

re: #9 Slumbering Behemoth

OT: Yay! Another zombie movie. NSFW.

Once the Academy finally gives me an Oscar I can stop making them.

17 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:31:22pm

I don't have a Kindle or an iPhone, but I do have a Blackberry.
That leaves out Amazon.
(And reading ebooks is not good for a cell phone battery, so I don't know if I would want to do it on an iPhone where I have to give up the phone to have the battery replaced.)
I tried the BN ebook reader, and on the Blackberry, it is unusable. Turn the scroll ball, nothing happens. Do it again, and again, and then it suddenly scrolls two or three pages. Going backwards takes even longer.
I reported it, and I actually got a response that they are working on the problem. Good for them. When they get it fixed, I'll try again, and if they really do fix it, I'll buy some ebooks to reward them for customer service. (I only tried the free ebooks)

Meanwhile, I use the mobipocket reader, which doesn't have as many books, but does have a free converter, so I can take the books on Gutenberg or Google, and convert them to mobipocket format.
However, mobipocket is NOT available for the Mac.
BTW, mobipocket is owned by Amazon.

Some of the books in the Baen Free Library are in mobipocket format; I'm reading David Drake's The Tank Lords now.

That's my quick review of ebook readers for the Blackberry.

18 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:32:07pm

re: #11 acwgusa

The minute a decent color ereader hits the market, my bookself goes into the fireplace!

Farenheit 451?

19 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:32:29pm

I am in love with e-books. Been reading them since 2004/5 on my Palm Zire. Looking at other book readers. I mostly read sci-fi which I purchase from Baen books. They support almost all currently known e-readers.

20 Kragar  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:33:09pm

re: #16 zombie

Once the Academy finally gives me an Oscar I can stop making them.

Waiting on the movie adaption of WWZ myself. The book was great.

21 acwgusa  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:33:40pm

re: #18 Kosh's Shadow

Farenheit 451?

Fawooosh! Backdraft!

22 JustABill  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:33:42pm

re: #18 Kosh's Shadow

Farenheit 451?

I don't know, I suspect that tempertature might get the plastic to melt, but to really kill an ebook, you might need to get it hotter.

23 MikeAlv77  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:33:43pm

re: #17 Kosh's Shadow


Some of the books in the Baen Free Library are in mobipocket format; I'm reading David Drake's The Tank Lords now.

Read all of his books. They are excellent military scifi. Good characters and the plots explore interesting topics. I have all of his Hammer's Slammers books.

24 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:36:11pm

re: #23 MikeAlv77

Drake writes believable military science fiction. Believable as in the characters. I also read his "Lt. Leary" series as well. Just waiting on his next installment and my credit card to be paid down a bit more.

/buying e-books for me is cheaper even with the US dollar exchange rate.

25 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:36:13pm

re: #16 zombie

Once the Academy finally gives me an Oscar I can stop making them.

No way. I love zombie flicks. Even the lousy ones.

26 Kragar  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:36:22pm

re: #23 MikeAlv77

Ever read the Gaunt's Ghosts series by Dan Abnett?

27 MikeAlv77  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:36:57pm

re: #26 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ever read the Gaunt's Ghosts series by Dan Abnett?

No I have not... Quick synopsis?

28 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:37:55pm

re: #26 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Heard about that series from a friend of mine I think. WH40k universe right?

29 vxbush  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:38:52pm

While I probably wouldn't have bought the Sony Reader and would have gone for the Kindle if I had actually spent money instead of getting the Reader as a present, I am realizing that I am using the Reader every single day, and that surprises me. But I love the hunt for a book that I want to read and I'm amazed at all the interesting old stuff that's available free via Gutenberg et. al.

30 MikeAlv77  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:39:46pm

This it:

Wiki Link

31 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:39:59pm

re: #29 vxbush

Gutenburg is a rich hunting ground of books. Grabbed a couple of obscure Kipling books from there one time, and browsed a whole bunch of other selections.

32 yochanan  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:40:12pm

i like reading my wife's romance novels no politics, no rants, just good'l bodice ripping.

33 MikeAlv77  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:41:35pm

re: #32 yochanan

i like reading my wife's romance novels no politics, no rants, just good'l bodice ripping.

You serious?!?!?

34 Desert Dog  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:41:47pm

re: #16 zombie

Once the Academy finally gives me an Oscar I can stop making them.

I really loved your performance in Dawn of the Dead, btw...the way you stumble on that guy and ate his brains...I almost cried, it was so touching.

35 itellu3times  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:41:59pm

Latest New Yorker has an article reviewing the Kindle.

Bottom line: they are underwhelmed.

One big shortcoming for me - ebook versions don't share page numbers with paper versions. My whole reason for an ebook would be to search for stuff not easily found in the index. I need page numbers. Bummer.

36 yochanan  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:42:16pm

re: #33 MikeAlv77

yes

37 Desert Dog  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:42:34pm

re: #32 yochanan

i like reading my wife's romance novels no politics, no rants, just good'l bodice ripping.

My wife always tells me her trashy romance novels are waaay better than my boring history and political book.

38 vxbush  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:43:10pm

re: #31 BlueCanuck

Gutenburg is a rich hunting ground of books. Grabbed a couple of obscure Kipling books from there one time, and browsed a whole bunch of other selections.

Alas, the market for borrowing e-Books is zero at this point, from what I can tell. Some folks are getting interested, and I'm putting together a list of sites who have books (and libraries with e-Books), but it's not as many as I would like.

39 vxbush  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:43:42pm

re: #35 itellu3times

Latest New Yorker has an article reviewing the Kindle.

Bottom line: they are underwhelmed.

One big shortcoming for me - ebook versions don't share page numbers with paper versions. My whole reason for an ebook would be to search for stuff not easily found in the index. I need page numbers. Bummer.

I have to agree: I wish the page numbering would match. That would make things much easier for my book discussion group.

40 Cato the Elder  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:44:08pm

Ironically enough, Pogue's article is not included in the August 5 Kindle edition of the NYT, which I get every day.

Battle of the Bands? The Pogues vs. the Kindle Kinks.

41 Kragar  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:45:17pm

re: #27 MikeAlv77

No I have not... Quick synopsis?

Light infantry/recon battalion during a Imperial Crusade set in the Warhammer 40k universe.

42 MikeAlv77  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:45:26pm

re: #36 yochanan

yes

My wife reads them. Danielle Steele, etc... I read the history and science and scifi books.

43 Kragar  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:46:06pm

re: #28 BlueCanuck

Heard about that series from a friend of mine I think. WH40k universe right?

Yup, good set of books. Some better than others, but over all a good read.

44 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:46:19pm

re: #37 Desert Dog

My wife always tells me her trashy romance novels are waaay better than my boring history and political book.

LOL. My wife complains that her eyes get glassy and crossed when she merely reads the back cover of one of my books.

45 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:47:16pm

Well time for me to head out. Geek night out for me again. Off to slay dragons and foil evil plots. See you down the road all. Stay scaly.

46 MikeAlv77  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:47:54pm

re: #44 Creeping Eruption

LOL. My wife complains that her eyes get glassy and crossed when she merely reads the back cover of one of my books.

Ha!... I was reading a book on the eastern holocaust (Masters of Death - author - Rohdes) She read the back cover and then looked me..

"Some light reading..."

Then went back to reading her Danielle Steele...

47 yochanan  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:48:04pm

if i just want to go to sleep the last thing i want to read is politics. soft core written porn ok.

48 itellu3times  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:49:14pm

re: #45 BlueCanuck

Well time for me to head out. Geek night out for me again. Off to slay dragons and foil evil plots. See you down the road all. Stay scaly.

Sounds subversive, I'm going to report you to dragons.whitehouse.gov.

49 vxbush  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:49:17pm

re: #44 Creeping Eruption

LOL. My wife complains that her eyes get glassy and crossed when she merely reads the back cover of one of my books.

My husband says the same thing about mine...math, science, philosophy, sci fi, theology, ...

50 Desert Dog  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:49:20pm

re: #44 Creeping Eruption

LOL. My wife complains that her eyes get glassy and crossed when she merely reads the back cover of one of my books.

Instant sleep inducer, eh?

51 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:49:35pm

The video was brilliant.

52 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:50:26pm

re: #46 MikeAlv77

Ha!... I was reading a book on the eastern holocaust (Masters of Death - author - Rohdes) She read the back cover and then looked me..

"Some light reading..."

Then went back to reading her Danielle Steele...

A few weeks back my wife picked up the "twilight" book. She just finished the second one. I read all four in a weekend. I understand the need for brainless reading activity sometimes.

53 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:51:32pm

Bird experiment shows Aesop's fable may be true

From the goose that laid the golden egg to the race between the tortoise and the hare, Aesop's fables are known for teaching moral lessons rather than literally being true. But a new study says at least one such tale might really have happened.

It's the fable about a thirsty crow. The bird comes across a pitcher with the water level too low for him to reach. The crow raises the water level by dropping stones into the pitcher. (Moral: Little by little does the trick, or in other retellings, necessity is the mother of invention.)

Now, scientists report that some relatives of crows called rooks used the same stone-dropping strategy to get at a floating worm. Results of experiments with three birds were published online Thursday by the journal Current Biology.

54 Lincolntf  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:52:23pm

Not too badly OT-
What is the best cheap device that will allow me to capture video and post it on the Web? We've already got digital cameras, cellphones with (I think) the capability for video, etc. I want a "just a video recorder" device that is easy to use, cheap and small. If it's available at Best Buy, that's a big bonus (gift-card that is drawing moths in my wallet).
Any suggestions?

55 MikeAlv77  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:52:28pm

re: #52 Creeping Eruption

A few weeks back my wife picked up the "twilight" book. She just finished the second one. I read all four in a weekend. I understand the need for brainless reading activity sometimes.

Oh, I agree... sometime I just read a magazine or page through a catalog of my hobby - building plastic models... good way to clear the old brain

56 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:53:41pm

re: #35 itellu3times

Latest New Yorker has an article reviewing the Kindle.

Bottom line: they are underwhelmed.

One big shortcoming for me - ebook versions don't share page numbers with paper versions. My whole reason for an ebook would be to search for stuff not easily found in the index. I need page numbers. Bummer.

Mobipocket has different page numbers depending on the device and screen size. Obviously there are a lot more "pages" on a small Blackberry screen compared with a PC.

57 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:57:39pm

I was going to try to avoid the Tea Party/town hall thing, it's just too depressing. However...
Anti-Health Care Reform Protester Encourages Physical Violence, Use Of Firearms

also see: SEIU: We've Gotten Threatening Phone Call Involving The Second Amendment
Ugh.

58 Buck  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:58:52pm

re: #53 Sharmuta

Bird experiment shows Aesop's fable may be true

Do you see how fast the rook is to use the rocks when given them? He doesn't even stop to think about. As soon as they are presented, the rook takes what looks like the biggest rock and puts it in the tub.

It is either a very smart rook, or it was trained to do this.

59 snowcrash  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 12:59:15pm

re: #54 Lincolntf
Flip video cam. Easy like a toy.

60 Lincolntf  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:00:16pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

Did you see the black man beaten down by Obama supporters at a Health Care "give-and-take"?
I haven't seen it yet (and the report may be apocryphal) , but it sounds like the Leftist extremists who dominate the Democrat Party have finally decided to send out their shock troops.

61 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:00:35pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

I was going to try to avoid the Tea Party/town hall thing, it's just too depressing. However...
Anti-Health Care Reform Protester Encourages Physical Violence, Use Of Firearms

also see: SEIU: We've Gotten Threatening Phone Call Involving The Second Amendment
Ugh.

It's only a matter of time...

62 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:03:20pm

All I need is my reading lamp.

63 Lincolntf  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:03:47pm

re: #59 snowcrash

Wow, Thanks.
That is pretty much exactly what we want. If you were on commission, you'd have definitely earned this one.

64 Kragar  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:04:05pm

re: #58 Buck

Do you see how fast the rook is to use the rocks when given them? He doesn't even stop to think about. As soon as they are presented, the rook takes what looks like the biggest rock and puts it in the tub.

It is either a very smart rook, or it was trained to do this.

The study claims they observed multiple birds with similar results. That would mean a lot of training time, or they were doing it on their own.

65 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:04:23pm

re: #60 Lincolntf

Did you see the black man beaten down by Obama supporters at a Health Care "give-and-take"?
I haven't seen it yet (and the report may be apocryphal) , but it sounds like the Leftist extremists who dominate the Democrat Party have finally decided to send out their shock troops.

Here's the black man beaten by Obama supporters.


[Link: www.youtube.com...]


Kenneth Gladney, a 38-year-old conservative activist from St. Louis, said he was attacked by some of those arrested as he handed out yellow flags with “Don’t tread on me” printed on them. He spoke to the Post-Dispatch from the emergency room of the St. John’s Mercy Medical Center, where he said he was waiting to be treated for injuries to his knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face that he suffered in the attack. Gladney, who is black, said one of his attackers, also a black man, used a racial slur against him before the attack started.

“It just seems there’s no freedom of speech without being attacked,” he said.

Very sad stuff.

66 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:05:17pm

re: #60 Lincolntf

I saw some of the clips but I really can't watch anymore of these videos. I didn't make it all the way through that one. However, if you were to start screaming and shouting like that in a bar, resteraunt, shop, etc. they"ll throw you out. It's not surprising. Some bouncers might overreact, people get angry. However, the protesters are in control of the situation. If they behave and get beaten then I'll support them. If they're taking guns and trying to force a confrontation then I really can't support them.
The whole situation is unnecessary and sad.

67 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:05:49pm

re: #61 Shiplord Kirel

It's only a matter of time...


I'm afraid so.

68 pink freud  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:06:29pm

re: #60 Lincolntf

Did you see the black man beaten down by Obama supporters at a Health Care "give-and-take"?
I haven't seen it yet (and the report may be apocryphal) , but it sounds like the Leftist extremists who dominate the Democrat Party have finally decided to send out their shock troops.

Wearing their blue shirts with "SEIU" in large block letters.

69 turn  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:06:30pm

re: #65 Pianobuff

O's handlers are calling out the thugs because of the dwangwous angry mobs

[Link: thedanashow.wordpress.com...]

70 [deleted]  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:06:38pm
71 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:07:44pm

Here's a letter from the attorney of the man beaten by the SEIU.

August 7, 2009

Dear Mr. Hennessy:

I am Kenneth Gladney’s attorney. Kenneth was attacked on the evening of August 6, 2009 at Rep. Russ Carnahan’s town hall meeting in South St. Louis County. I was at the town hall meeting as well and witnessed the events leading up to the attack of Kenneth. Kenneth was approached by an SEIU representative as Kenneth was handing out “Don’t Tread on Me” flags to other conservatives. The SEIU representative demanded to know why a black man was handing out these flags. The SEIU member used a racial slur against Kenneth, then punched him in the face. Kenneth fell to the ground. Another SEIU member yelled racial epithets at Kenneth as he kicked him in the head and back. Kenneth was also brutally attacked by one other male SEIU member and an unidentified woman. The three men were clearly SEIU members, as they were wearing T-shirts with the SEIU logo.

Kenneth was beaten badly. One assailant fled on foot; three others were arrested. Kenneth was admitted to St. John’s Mercy Medical Center emergency room, where he was treated for his numerous injuries. Kenneth was merely expressing his freedom of speech by handing out the flags. In fact, he merely asked people as they exited the town hall meeting whether they would like a flag. He in no way provoked any argument or altercation, as evidenced by the fact that three assailants were arrested.

We hope that Kenneth fully recovers from his injuries; however, he is in great pain at this time. We will be pursuing legal action at our discretion. This was a truly senseless hate crime carried out by racist union thugs. Regretfully, Representative Carnahan’s statements blaming Kenneth for being a disruptive force are wholly untrue and slanderous. We would like to think that an elected official in Representative Carnahan’s position would gather accurate information before carelessly rushing to judgment.

Kenneth supports conservative ideals, although he subscribes to no particular political party. We are calling on the SEIU, Representative Carnahan, and President Obama to condemn the racist actions of these union thugs. In the days to come, we will be investigating whether these thugs are working at the behest of Representative Carnahan and how strong their alliances to various organizations–such as ACORN–may be.

We hope the St. Louis Tea Party and tea party organizations around the country will protest Representative Carnahan’s offices and also protest SEIU offices in every major city across the U.S. These Democratic strong-arm tactics must end now.

Regards,

Attorney David B. Brown

72 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:08:30pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

I was going to try to avoid the Tea Party/town hall thing, it's just too depressing. However...
Anti-Health Care Reform Protester Encourages Physical Violence, Use Of Firearms

also see: SEIU: We've Gotten Threatening Phone Call Involving The Second Amendment
Ugh.

Free Republic has pulled their thread on the phone call to SEIU. Too many bloodthirsty endorsements, with others yelling "fake" and accusing SEIU of fabricating the call. The latter is always possible, of course, but the caller seemed to have too good a grasp of conservative attitudes toward the Second Amendment for a lefty union ringer.

73 horse  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:08:37pm

The video is funny and has very good points, but what's up with the little red umbrella?

74 Desert Dog  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:08:54pm

re: #67 Killgore Trout

I'm afraid so.

Here's a healthcare "reform" supporter telling people who are against it to just shut up and move out of the way...

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

75 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:09:28pm

One very angry Twitter hashtag:

[Link: twitter.com...]

76 Lincolntf  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:10:09pm

re: #66 Killgore Trout

If shouting is justification for violence, then we're totally fucked.

77 jcm  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:10:12pm

The Town Hall Mob
By PAUL KRUGMAN

That is, the driving force behind the town hall mobs is probably the same cultural and racial anxiety that’s behind the “birther” movement, which denies Mr. Obama’s citizenship. Senator Dick Durbin has suggested that the birthers and the health care protesters are one and the same; we don’t know how many of the protesters are birthers, but it wouldn’t be surprising if it’s a substantial fraction.


Lumps birthers with those opposed to the health care bill, and paints 'em all with the same brush.

78 turn  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:10:31pm

re: #71 Pianobuff

Who was that written to buff?

79 SummerSong  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:10:39pm

re: #60 Lincolntf

Did you see the black man beaten down by Obama supporters at a Health Care "give-and-take"?
I haven't seen it yet (and the report may be apocryphal) , but it sounds like the Leftist extremists who dominate the Democrat Party have finally decided to send out their shock troops.

That guy is on Fox news right now?

80 VegasRick  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:11:12pm

re: #71 Pianobuff

I am not usually one to advocate suing someone but I hpoe the guy sues the SEIU shirts off these assholes. The Union sent them and they should pay dearly.

81 jcm  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:11:17pm

re: #64 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The study claims they observed multiple birds with similar results. That would mean a lot of training time, or they were doing it on their own.

I've watch crows go into trash cans at fast food restaurants, throw bags out then go through the bags.

82 Lincolntf  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:11:19pm

re: #79 SummerSong

No TV at the moment. Heard it on a local radio newsbreak.

83 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:11:39pm

(Having skimmed the thread for prior comments about it) I am overjoyed to be the first here to call BULLSHIT on an E-book device being labeled a "paper tiger".

:D ... update your metaphor, Mr. Pogue

84 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:11:48pm

re: #77 jcm

The Town Hall Mob
By PAUL KRUGMAN


Lumps birthers with those opposed to the health care bill, and paints 'em all with the same brush.

Opposed to Obamacare?..."You're a racist!"

85 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:11:51pm

They're tweeting angrily. Twittering with rage.

86 Kragar  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:12:51pm

re: #74 Desert Dog

Here's a healthcare "reform" supporter telling people who are against it to just shut up and move out of the way...

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

"Just walk away. Nobody had to die. Just walk away." - Lord Humongous

87 Desert Dog  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:12:59pm

re: #77 jcm

The Town Hall Mob
By PAUL KRUGMAN


Lumps birthers with those opposed to the health care bill, and paints 'em all with the same brush.

Go ahead, Democrats, keep thinking all of these people are nuts, crackpots and Republican plants...please keep doing that. This is snowballing out of control for them and Obama is going to take it in the shorts on this one. If they still manage to pass it, there's going to be a "House" cleaning come 2010 and 2012.

88 Kragar  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:13:23pm

re: #76 Lincolntf

If shouting is justification for violence, then we're totally fucked.

LOUD NOISES!

*SLAP*

89 VegasRick  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:13:31pm

Has zero stated that the union members acted "stupidly"?
*just wondering

90 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:13:37pm

This is really, really looking ugly.
Who would have thought that healthcare reform would be the Fort Sumter of a new Civil War?

91 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:13:44pm

If you look at that Twitter feed - a lot of these people are gleefully adopting the name "mob" for themselves.

92 Kragar  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:14:07pm

re: #81 jcm

I've watch crows go into trash cans at fast food restaurants, throw bags out then go through the bags.

Ah, but have you applied for a Federal grant to do this?

93 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:14:23pm

re: #91 Charles

If you look at that Twitter feed - a lot of these people are gleefully adopting the name "mob" for themselves.

Makes me glad I don't have a Twitter registration.

94 vxbush  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:14:26pm

re: #83 pre-Boomer Marine brat

(Having skimmed the thread for prior comments about it) I am overjoyed to be the first here to call BULLSHIT on an E-book device being labeled a "paper tiger".

:D ... update your metaphor, Mr. Pogue

Actually, I thought it was a nice turn of a phrase. There used to be a bookstore called the Paper Tiger near my hometown. I think it's gone, though...

95 Desert Dog  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:14:43pm

re: #85 Charles

They're tweeting angrily. Twittering with rage.

Should we shudder and their twitter? Or should we twitch at their tweets?

96 jcm  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:15:01pm

re: #92 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ah, but have you applied for a Federal grant to do this?

Oh, *snap*!

97 Lincolntf  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:15:05pm

re: #77 jcm

That has always been the goal. You see it in the MSM, you see it from Leftist web-posters, you see it in the "conventional wisdom" of the ignorant masses, etc.
Marginalization is their weapon of choice. It crushes freedom of expression without legislation at the same time it sets up the Liberal speech-opponents as rescuers. It's Leftism 101.

98 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:15:17pm

re: #10 Charles

Things I hate about my cellphone service (Verizon Wireless):
1) customer service on phone or online.
2) getting charged for text messages from people I don't even know (hey, it's a pittance, but I never send 'em, and hardly ever receive 'em. When I do, I know they're not meant for me).
3) dropped calls. Can you hear me N... ? No. I can't. Because you dropped my call Verizon guy. And VZW actually has superior service in the NYC metro area compared to the others - which makes me wonder why more people aren't homicidal towards AT&T/Sprint and all the rest.

99 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:15:17pm

Didn't the last election prove the paradigm has shifted?

The money and the elites support the (D).

100 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:15:39pm

re: #94 vxbush

Actually, I thought it was a nice turn of a phrase. There used to be a bookstore called the Paper Tiger near my hometown. I think it's gone, though...

After thinking about it ... heh ... yes, you're right.

101 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:15:45pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

I was going to try to avoid the Tea Party/town hall thing, it's just too depressing. However...
Anti-Health Care Reform Protester Encourages Physical Violence, Use Of Firearms

also see: SEIU: We've Gotten Threatening Phone Call Involving The Second Amendment
Ugh.

Perhaps they shouldn't have let their members beat the crap out of that flag vendor. I saw this coming as soon as I heard the call for the unions to help "keep things calm."

102 Kragar  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:16:07pm

re: #96 jcm

Oh, *snap*!

Game, Set, Match, Me.

103 Desert Dog  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:16:59pm

re: #86 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Just walk away. Nobody had to die. Just walk away." - Lord Humongous

Road Warrior inference...nice...

104 VegasRick  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:17:07pm

re: #91 Charles

If you look at that Twitter feed - a lot of these people are gleefully adopting the name "mob" for themselves.

I could not read them. Could it be like a "I am JTP" type of thing?

105 Kragar  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:17:36pm

re: #89 VegasRick

Has zero stated that the union members acted "stupidly"?
*just wondering

I expect it to sound more like "I am gravely disappointed. Again you have made me unleash my dogs of war."

106 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:17:54pm

re: #66 Killgore Trout

I saw some of the clips but I really can't watch anymore of these videos. I didn't make it all the way through that one. However, if you were to start screaming and shouting like that in a bar, resteraunt, shop, etc. they"ll throw you out. It's not surprising. Some bouncers might overreact, people get angry. However, the protesters are in control of the situation. If they behave and get beaten then I'll support them. If they're taking guns and trying to force a confrontation then I really can't support them.
The whole situation is unnecessary and sad.

I really don't get this. Don't they have police at these things? If you interrupt the recognized speaker at a public event, out you go. It's that simple.
We seem to have decided way back in the 60s that there is some kind of right to disrupt certain public events and two whole generations now have no awareness that any other set of rules for these ever existed.

107 VegasRick  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:18:37pm

re: #103 Desert Dog

Road Warrior inference...nice...

Mad Max.

108 Lincolntf  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:18:59pm

re: #101 CyanSnowHawk

I think this issue has become a good barometer for exactly which political movements rely on violence and speech suppression to get their way.

As for the beating of that man, I've only seen it once, just now.
On first blush that is a hate crime if I've ever seen one. Skin color doesn't matter, that man was beaten for his words and his beliefs.

109 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:20:10pm

re: #106 Shiplord Kirel

There are police there but these are small towns. These meetings don't have dedicated police to serve as bouncers like they have on capitol hill. I don't find it surprising that they have civilian bouncers.

110 OldLineTexan  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:20:17pm

re: #106 Shiplord Kirel

I really don't get this. Don't they have police at these things? If you interrupt the recognized speaker at a public event, out you go. It's that simple.
We seem to have decided way back in the 60s that there is some kind of right to disrupt certain public events and two whole generations now have no awareness that any other set of rules for these ever existed.

Don't tase me, bro.

/

111 jcm  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:20:19pm

re: #74 Desert Dog

Here's a healthcare "reform" supporter telling people who are against it to just shut up and move out of the way...

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

"I don't want the folks who created the mess -- I don't want the folks who created the mess do a lot of talking,'' the president said, his voice raised high. "I want them just to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess. I don't mind cleaning up after them, but don't do a lot of talking.'

Just repeating what the boss said...

112 Desert Dog  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:20:20pm

re: #101 CyanSnowHawk

Perhaps they shouldn't have let their members beat the crap out of that flag vendor. I saw this coming as soon as I heard the call for the unions to help "keep things calm."

"Hey Mick, at our concert at Altamont this weekend, perhaps we should bring in some chaps for security"

"How about the Hell's Angels?"

"Great idea, Mick!"

113 Kragar  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:21:09pm

re: #107 VegasRick

Mad Max.

Nope, its was Road Warrior (aka Mad Max 2)

114 VegasRick  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:23:42pm

re: #113 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nope, its was Road Warrior (aka Mad Max 2)

That's right.

115 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:26:30pm

re: #109 Killgore Trout

There are police there but these are small towns. These meetings don't have dedicated police to serve as bouncers like they have on capitol hill. I don't find it surprising that they have civilian bouncers.

If I were an elected representative and had a statement to make to the people, I would ask for National Guard troops and make the speech from the top of a tank before I would let thugs stop me. I would also know better than to ask a lefty union to provide anything, let alone security.

116 OldLineTexan  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:27:08pm

re: #112 Desert Dog

"Hey Mick, at our concert at Altamont this weekend, perhaps we should bring in some chaps for security"

"How about the Hell's Angels?"

"Great idea, Mick!"

Yep, "civilian bouncers".

117 Yankee Division Son  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:27:47pm

Murdoch Demands Kindle Users' Info


In yet another move to display how antiquated and completely ignorant of digital culture he is, Rupert Murdoch has started demanding that Amazon hand over user info for all Kindle users. This demand comes right after Murdoch just finished negotiating a larger share of revenue from Amazon sales. At least Amazon hasn't decided to comply with this request yet.
118 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:28:59pm

re: #115 Shiplord Kirel

I think there are legal/constitutional issues about using local police and national guard. Not sure what the rules are. Not to mention the financial cost to these small towns to be responsible for security.

119 itellu3times  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:30:16pm

re: #77 jcm

The Town Hall Mob
By PAUL KRUGMAN

Lumps birthers with those opposed to the health care bill, and paints 'em all with the same brush.

Most damning fact of them all: None of them is Paul Krugman.

120 itellu3times  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:31:08pm

re: #117 Yankee Division Son

Murdoch Demands Kindle Users' Info

Man must have had a stroke.

121 OldLineTexan  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:31:40pm

re: #118 Killgore Trout

I think there are legal/constitutional issues about using local police and national guard. Not sure what the rules are. Not to mention the financial cost to these small towns to be responsible for security.

National Guard? Probably if not definitely.

Police? I had to hire Alvin, TX police as "security" at our wedding reception at the VFW since we served alcohol. My church has county sheriffs as paid security/traffic control on Sunday. My neighborhood has contract constable's deputies on patrol as "security". Cost should come out of the rep's campaign budget, IMO.

122 albusteve  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 1:33:01pm

re: #112 Desert Dog

"Hey Mick, at our concert at Altamont this weekend, perhaps we should bring in some chaps for security"

"How about the Hell's Angels?"

"Great idea, Mick!"

it was Jerry Garcia's idea, the worked for the Dead before for free beer...the Stones were appalled at the idea...and then it happened

123 debutaunt  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 2:01:49pm

re: #66 Killgore Trout

I saw some of the clips but I really can't watch anymore of these videos. I didn't make it all the way through that one. However, if you were to start screaming and shouting like that in a bar, resteraunt, shop, etc. they"ll throw you out. It's not surprising. Some bouncers might overreact, people get angry. However, the protesters are in control of the situation. If they behave and get beaten then I'll support them. If they're taking guns and trying to force a confrontation then I really can't support them.
The whole situation is unnecessary and sad.

Killgore, that black guy was only passing out 'don't tread on me' flags.

124 debutaunt  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 2:05:03pm

re: #91 Charles

If you look at that Twitter feed - a lot of these people are gleefully adopting the name "mob" for themselves.

Cool. Stupid people gathering in groups.

125 FrogMarch  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 2:15:31pm

Great video Charles, thanks.

126 FrogMarch  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 2:18:51pm
127 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 3:38:55pm

Getting back to e-books: Baen Publishing offers CD-ROM's bound in a few select books. This is for fans of fantasy and science fiction. You can read these novels on your PC or hand-held or other device. Then are so nice as to offer free software for most devices. Their website is: [Link: www.baen.com...]

128 Izzy Dunne  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 3:46:50pm

Interesting. If you look at Amazon's page it says that 73% of people ultimately buy the book after viewing the page.
--- OK.

It says that 9% ultimately buy "Switching to the Mac: the Missing Manual".
--- OK.

It says that 7% buy "The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes".
--- Huh?

It says that 5% buy "Paranoia".
--- WTF?

129 Empire1  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 4:27:42pm

re: #4 yochanan

for now i will stick to dead tree books.

Same here. I've got books I've dad for over 40 years. I can still read them with no problem (unless a puppy accedintally gets hold of one!). A new format won't make them unreabable, and short of breaking into my house, nobody's going to just take them away from me. I can lend them out, sell them, or give them away at my sole discretion -- they are mine, I don't just have permission to read them.

Until the same is true of e-books, I'll keep my hard copies, thanks very much!

130 patrickafir  Fri, Aug 7, 2009 5:24:06pm

I use Kindle and Stanza on my iPhone. I like them both pretty much the same.

131 CapitalistTool  Sat, Aug 8, 2009 1:51:30pm

re: #130 patrickafir

I use Kindle and Stanza on my iPhone. I like them both pretty much the same.

Same here (I use a iPod Touch), and the advantage is that we can read them in COLOR.

132 CapitalistTool  Sat, Aug 8, 2009 1:54:11pm

re: #11 acwgusa

The minute a decent color ereader hits the market, my bookself goes into the fireplace!

Define "decent," please. Would an iPhone or Touch qualify?


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ...
Cheechako
4 hours ago
Views: 30 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
A Closer Look at the Eastman State Bar DecisionTaking a few minutes away from work things to read through the Eastman decision. As I'm sure many of you know, Eastman was my law school con law professor. I knew him pretty well because I was also running in ...
KGxvi
7 hours ago
Views: 85 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 1