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Why do people always expect authors to answer questions? I am an author because I want to ask questions. If I had answers, I’d be a politician.
— Eug�ne Ionesco
1258 comments
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Sharmuta Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:18:07pm |
Why do people always expect authors to answer questions? I am an author because I want to ask questions. If I had answers, I’d be a politician.— Eugène Ionesco
Bah- politicians don't have answers, only ambitions.
| 2 |
pbird Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:20:50pm |
What, besides the lust for power, makes anyone want to be a politician?
| 3 |
freetoken Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:25:42pm |
| 4 |
victor_yugo Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:29:08pm |
re: #3 freetoken
"I'd like to buy the world a Coke, and keep it company..."
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Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:30:45pm |
re: #4 victor_yugo
"I'd like to buy the world a Coke, and keep it company..."
OK that takes me back... Not everything in the seventies sucked...
| 7 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:31:38pm |
Interesting, to be on vacation & totally away from the news, except to pop in like tonight & see that the world is STILL going to H in a handbasket. Hmmm, it's doing it's thing without me...
Still, I MISS MY LIZARD BUDDIES!
*waves*
| 8 |
victor_yugo Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:33:44pm |
re: #1 Sharmuta
Bah- politicians don't have answers, only ambitions.
"No man who aspires to the Presidency should ever be allowed to have it."
| 9 |
spidly Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:34:00pm |
they do have answers; like William Jefferson;
"those FBI marked bills were from my legit business, 'passion for Africa'"
or Ted Kennedy "we'll tax advantage HMO's so people will get all that preventative care and never get ill"
too often wrong answers.
| 10 |
Wendya Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:36:45pm |
re: #5 LudwigVanQuixote
OK that takes me back... Not everything in the seventies sucked...
The clothes certainly did.
| 11 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:37:03pm |
Some people complain about the level of intellect and civility contained here on LGF, but those people must be some kind of internet virgins.
Seriously, there is so much mind boggling stupidity, incivility, and downright disgusting garbage on these here interwebs, it makes LGF look like a formal brunch with your grandparents on Easter Sunday.
| 12 |
MrPaulRevere Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:37:26pm |
Chávez Loyalists Push to Close the Golf Courses: “Let’s leave this clear,” Mr. Chávez said during a live broadcast of his Sunday television program. “Golf is a bourgeois sport,” he said, repeating the word “bourgeois” as if he were swallowing castor oil." Yep, he's nuts... [Link: www.nytimes.com...]
| 13 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:37:41pm |
OMG lizards. My hubby, Desert Sage and myself met Haakondahl and Redc1c4 tonight. It was much fun. All really great people.
Of course we missed our local town hall meeting but that's okay. Lizards are better.
| 14 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:39:16pm |
re: #13 Pvt Bin Jammin
PBJ, I'm SO jealous! Next meet up, please count me in? IF I'm not on vacation, I will be there!
| 16 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:40:43pm |
re: #12 MrPaulRevere
Chávez Loyalists Push to Close the Golf Courses: “Let’s leave this clear,” Mr. Chávez said during a live broadcast of his Sunday television program. “Golf is a bourgeois sport,” he said, repeating the word “bourgeois” as if he were swallowing castor oil." Yep, he's nuts... [Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Well, golf IS a bourgeois sport. Let's face it.
Of course, I once had a friend reveal to me that her family had a set of china (real china, picked up mismatched at thrift stores) and silverware for picnics. "I guess you think that's completely bourgeois," she said defensively.
"No," I said thoughtfully. "A plastic set of dishes in a matchy picnic basket is bourgeois. China plates go on into the realm of 'eccentric'."
| 17 |
esch Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:41:14pm |
re: #10 Wendya
The clothes certainly did.
Yikes.
Don't remind me. I was a child of flower children. Imagine that.
| 18 |
freetoken Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:41:26pm |
re: #11 Slumbering Behemoth
... it makes LGF look like a formal brunch with your grandparents on Easter Sunday.
Did someone say "brunch"?
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Pvt Bin Jammin Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:41:41pm |
re: #14 Floral Giraffe
Will do. It turned out to be "spur of the moment" because haakondahl had a lot of family show up to see him earlier so tonight was his only free night. He flies out tomorrow.
| 20 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:43:56pm |
re: #17 esch
Yikes.
Don't remind me. I was a child of flower children. Imagine that.
I don't need to imagine. I was there. Only my father's being a cop during the seventies spared me from the full experience.
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MrPaulRevere Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:44:32pm |
re: #16 SanFranciscoZionist
Well, I don't play golf myself (not my cup of tea) and your right, it is a bourgeois sport, but banning it is simply insane. I really believe Hugo Chavez is mentally unstable.
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Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:45:15pm |
re: #13 Pvt Bin Jammin
OMG lizards. My hubby, Desert Sage and myself met Haakondahl and Redc1c4 tonight. It was much fun. All really great people.
Of course we missed our local town hall meeting but that's okay. Lizards are better.
Very cool that you all were able to hook up. I'd dig doing that sometime.
So... How many Lizards live near my [undisclosed location] and are into [undisclosed activity]? We could meet at [another undisclosed location] for [undisclosed beverages and foodstuffs].
The internet is weird.
| 23 |
Wendya Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:46:04pm |
The snap of sweet success! My traps finally caught the mouse that's been running across the floor terrorizing my 95lb English Shepherd.
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Dancing along the light of day Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:46:39pm |
re: #22 Slumbering Behemoth
Well, it's undisclosed!
Duh! ;)
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Sharmuta Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:46:41pm |
re: #22 Slumbering Behemoth
Very cool that you all were able to hook up. I'd dig doing that sometime.
So... How many Lizards live near my [undisclosed location] and are into [undisclosed activity]? We could meet at [another undisclosed location] for [undisclosed beverages and foodstuffs].
The internet is weird.
Count me in! I'll be there on [undisclosed day] at [undisclosed thirty]. ;)
| 26 |
esch Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:46:59pm |
re: #20 SanFranciscoZionist
A police officer in SF (I assume) in the seventies? Talk about ground zero.
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SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:48:03pm |
re: #21 MrPaulRevere
Well, I don't play golf myself (not my cup of tea) and your right, it is a bourgeois sport, but banning it is simply insane. I really believe Hugo Chavez is mentally unstable.
I would have to agree with that. Perhaps he's afraid of the idea of the bourgeoisie walking around armed with nine irons.
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SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:48:45pm |
re: #23 Wendya
The snap of sweet success! My traps finally caught the mouse that's been running across the floor terrorizing my 95lb English Shepherd.
My German Shepherd used to track them around the house, apparently with no intention of trying to catch them.
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victor_yugo Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:49:20pm |
re: #21 MrPaulRevere
Well, I don't play golf myself (not my cup of tea) and your right, it is a bourgeois sport, but banning it is simply insane. I really believe Hugo Chavez is mentally unstable.
"Golf is a pleasant walk through the woods, spoiled by a little white ball." -- Mark Twain
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SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:49:39pm |
re: #26 esch
A police officer in SF (I assume) in the seventies? Talk about ground zero.
Santa Barbara, in those years. Even better. Some of the stories--Lord have mercy.
Angel dust was 'in' at the time.
| 31 |
haakondahl Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:49:44pm |
Had a great time! Right now, just south of Barstow (I think). Stopped for gas, Mountain Dew, and a blue Monster. Was really good to meet you all. Will post when I get back to San Diego.
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victor_yugo Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:50:49pm |
re: #29 victor_yugo
Follow-up:
I know a man, who gave up golf and took up bowling, for one simple reason.
In bowling, the ball comes back.
| 33 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:51:54pm |
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Pvt Bin Jammin Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:52:37pm |
re: #22 Slumbering Behemoth
It was a nice meet up but no time to plan it really. We ran into an old acquaintance (a lib) who was on his way home from the "town hall healthcare" thing. It's kinda too bad he showed up late. We lizards were ready to leave. Might have made for good discussion.;-).re: #31 haakondahl
Barstow? Turn west, southwest!
| 35 |
Wendya Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:53:45pm |
re: #28 SanFranciscoZionist
My German Shepherd used to track them around the house, apparently with no intention of trying to catch them.
My Bulldog loves to stalk them. He's not fast enough to catch them but it keeps him entertained. The Shepherd turns tail and scatters when he sees one. This is the same dog that cornered an intruder who foolishly broke into the house and had him pinned against the wall (with his teeth) until my Husband removed him.
| 36 |
victor_yugo Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:54:21pm |
A music vid with a certain primeval aspect to it:
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SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:55:15pm |
re: #35 Wendya
My Bulldog loves to stalk them. He's not fast enough to catch them but it keeps him entertained. The Shepherd turns tail and scatters when he sees one. This is the same dog that cornered an intruder who foolishly broke into the house and had him pinned against the wall (with his teeth) until my Husband removed him.
I guess dogs can have phobias like anyone else.
| 38 |
MrPaulRevere Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:56:22pm |
re: #23 Wendya
I have just the movie for you: The Rats [Link: www.hulu.com...]
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Pvt Bin Jammin Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:57:39pm |
re: #35 Wendya
We had a little Jack Russell Terrier who used to "nail them". Now we have a Jack Russell Terrier x Beagle. He just bays at them. LOL
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Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:59:01pm |
re: #39 Pvt Bin Jammin
We had a little Jack Russell Terrier who used to "nail them". Now we have a Jack Russell Terrier x Beagle. He just bays at them. LOL
I have a little TR terrier who bounces all over the place. He's never seen a rat though. I'm not certain what he would do.
| 41 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:59:24pm |
OK Lizards of the night, it's time for me to go!
If someone would be so kind as to let HoosierHoops know that his Sonoma County is BAKING in the heat, it's lovely, and very, very HOT right now. But the hot air balloons are pretty & the roosters are crowing. You would have my gratitude.
I'm off to more vacation time!
I do hope when you take YOUR vacation, it can remove you from your daily life & give you a break!
{{Lizards}}
| 42 |
Wendya Tue, Aug 11, 2009 11:59:52pm |
re: #38 MrPaulRevere
I have just the movie for you: The Rats [Link: www.hulu.com...]
Ugh.. no thanks. I had nightmares as a kid after watching Willard.
| 43 |
victor_yugo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 12:00:50am |
re: #28 SanFranciscoZionist
I had a cat with no front claws, that still managed to keep the mice under control.
One afternoon, I heard a commotion in the kitchen. The cat had pinned a mouse with his claw-less front paws, but wasn't sure what to do with it. He finally lifted his right front paw, while keeping his left paw pinned on the mouse, and swung at it *BAM* hard enough to send it sliding on the linoleum into the opposite wall, knocking it senseless. Having sufficiently stunned the mouse, he picked it up in his mouth and looked around, wondering what to do next.
At 17 pounds, he could still jump 10 feet from the bed to the back of the rocking chair. That was a helluva cat.
| 44 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Wed, Aug 12, 2009 12:01:29am |
re: #40 LudwigVanQuixote
I have a little TR terrier who bounces all over the place. He's never seen a rat though. I'm not certain what he would do.
I'll bet he would "nail one". I couldn't even believe how fast our old JRT got that thing. He used to take out the possums too.
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SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 12, 2009 12:03:37am |
re: #39 Pvt Bin Jammin
We had a little Jack Russell Terrier who used to "nail them". Now we have a Jack Russell Terrier x Beagle. He just bays at them. LOL
One of my father's dogwalking friends had a little rat terrier. Those things are hard-wired to go after rodents. No fear. My father referred to the terrier as 'the ace', after she killed her fifth gopher.
One evening the friend and the terrier are out taking a walk in SF's Richmond District, and the terrier flushes a raccoon out from behind a trash can. The fight was on. My dad's friend is standing there screaming her head off, trying to break up the fight, but she was wearing sandals and was bare-legged.
Windows fly up all up and down the block, someone yells, "I'm calling the police," and the door of the house they're in front of flies open and a guy in Doc Martens holding a baseball bat comes down his steps yelling "Where is he, lady?"
She showed him the raccoon. He kicked it a couple of times, and it went away. The terrier bitched all the way to the vet about how she could have been a contenda.
| 46 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Wed, Aug 12, 2009 12:04:56am |
re: #43 victor_yugo
How cute is that. My dad lived with us for a few years after he was disabled from a couple of strokes. One night we came home and the TV was off. I asked Dad why he wasn't watching his show & he said because the cat and some little mouse were giving him a much better show.
| 47 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Aug 12, 2009 12:05:50am |
From going to and fro on the interwebs, and scrolling up and down upon it.
G'nite Lizards.
| 48 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Wed, Aug 12, 2009 12:07:06am |
re: #45 SanFranciscoZionist
One of my father's dogwalking friends had a little rat terrier. Those things are hard-wired to go after rodents. No fear. My father referred to the terrier as 'the ace', after she killed her fifth gopher.
One evening the friend and the terrier are out taking a walk in SF's Richmond District, and the terrier flushes a raccoon out from behind a trash can. The fight was on. My dad's friend is standing there screaming her head off, trying to break up the fight, but she was wearing sandals and was bare-legged.
Windows fly up all up and down the block, someone yells, "I'm calling the police," and the door of the house they're in front of flies open and a guy in Doc Martens holding a baseball bat comes down his steps yelling "Where is he, lady?"
She showed him the raccoon. He kicked it a couple of times, and it went away. The terrier bitched all the way to the vet about how she could have been a contenda.
OMG I love it. I want to be a terrier in my next life. They are so much fun.
| 49 |
victor_yugo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 12:07:48am |
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victor_yugo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 12:10:30am |
re: #46 Pvt Bin Jammin
How cute is that. My dad lived with us for a few years after he was disabled from a couple of strokes. One night we came home and the TV was off. I asked Dad why he wasn't watching his show & he said because the cat and some little mouse were giving him a much better show.
And I'm sure that alone made the investment in the cat worth it.
| 53 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Wed, Aug 12, 2009 12:14:16am |
I'd better hit the hay too, lizards. Tomorrow comes early for us. I sincerely hope Haakondahl is really not in Barstow. Make sure he gets to San Diego.
Love you lizards.
| 54 |
Equable Wed, Aug 12, 2009 12:15:16am |
First cool and cloudy night here in weeks - but it just HAD to be on a night during a kick ass meteor shower.
Crapola.
Beer-thirty.
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Pvt Bin Jammin Wed, Aug 12, 2009 12:15:57am |
re: #52 victor_yugo
And I'm sure that alone made the investment in the cat worth it.
Absolutely.
Missing my dad right now & that cute little cat.
Take care.
| 61 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 12:53:50am |
Hey, keep it down! You'll wake people up! ;)
| 64 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 12:56:28am |
re: #62 BatGuano
Hey Bat. :)
So I'm watching Chris Matthews rip into this fool who brought the gun to the townhall.
Crazy, crazy August...
| 65 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 12:56:35am |
re: #61 iceweasel
Hey, keep it down! You'll wake people up! ;)
I was hoping they would play music from when I was born, not before:)
| 66 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 12:58:14am |
re: #64 iceweasel
I saw it. i guessed on a previous thread that he was a Paulian.
| 67 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 12:58:21am |
re: #65 Cannadian Club Akbar
I was hoping they would play music from when I was born, not before:)
Same here, but I love my Bat. And my Simon and Garfunkel, naturally...
What's up, CCA?
| 68 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 12:59:07am |
| 69 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 12:59:40am |
re: #67 iceweasel
Same here, but I love my Bat. And my Simon and Garfunkel, naturally...
What's up, CCA?
Another day of sending out resumes. SSDD.
| 70 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:00:48am |
re: #66 BatGuano
I saw it. i guessed on a previous thread that he was a Paulian.
Well done, Bat G!
This guy makes me incredibly, incredibly angry. I can't believe he can sit there smirking and claim that bringing that gun and that sign doesn't mean what we all know it means.
I have a bad feeling.
| 71 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:01:13am |
re: #68 Cannadian Club Akbar
I don't know for sure, it was just a guess.
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Sharmuta Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:03:10am |
re: #71 BatGuano
I don't know for sure, it was just a guess.
He admitted it on the video that he voted for ron paul. He's also a Free Stater- one of those personal-liberty-to-the-point-of-anarchy people.
| 73 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:03:59am |
re: #70 iceweasel
I have a bad feeling about "conservatives" who bring guns to meet the President too.
| 75 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:04:34am |
re: #73 BatGuano
I have a bad feeling about "conservatives" who bring guns to meet the President too.
That is just F'ing stoopid.
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BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:05:58am |
re: #71 BatGuano
I don't know for sure, it was just a guess.
You were right. Matthews asked him who he'd supported in the election-- answer: Ron Paul!
| 77 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:06:55am |
I saw a Bush speech in '04. Secret Service all over the surrounding buildings (it was held in a baseball stadium) Planes everywhere. Had to get there 4 hours early. I barely wanted to carry my car keys.
| 79 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:07:28am |
re: #72 Sharmuta
I couldn't watch it all. I had heard enough. Two things I despise: Chris Matthews and ***holes.
| 80 |
Sharmuta Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:09:22am |
re: #79 BatGuano
It's the one time I've been impressed with Chris Matthews. That should speak for something.
| 81 |
haakondahl Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:10:00am |
re: #79 BatGuano
I couldn't watch it all. I had heard enough. Two things I despise: Chris Matthews and ***holes.
But you repeat yourself.
| 82 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:11:21am |
BTW, there was more ugliness at that townhall than the one douchebag with the gun:
[Link: washingtonindependent.com...]
It sure is getting to be a hot summer. And the town hall protesters are turning up the heat: they’ve gone from objecting to a national health care plan to wanting to shoot illegal immigrants in the head — and then deport them.ConsiderThisNews has the video of protesters in New Hampshire, expressing their anger at President Obama. This is the highlight:
“We don’t need illegals,” says a white-bearded protester into his megaphone. “Send ‘em all back. Send ‘em back with a bullet in the head the second time.”
The man goes on to cite Thomas Jefferson, saying “Read what Jefferson said about the Tree of Liberty — it’s coming, baby.”
What Jefferson actually said was: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
It’s getting ugly.
Think it's any coincidence that he references the same quote that the gun carrier did?
This is veiled assassination rhetoric right there-- and its the logical extension of rhetoric like that of the nirthers, who are propagating the idea that Obama is somehow an usurper.
| 83 |
haakondahl Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:11:30am |
It turns out that I was nowhere near Barstow, which I guess is up the other way on 15. But that miserable 71 sure dumps you in the middle of a parking lot. Hit 60 east to 15 south, stayed on that right to the Navy base.
| 84 |
haakondahl Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:12:18am |
re: #82 iceweasel
Extra McPoint for using "an" with "usurper".
| 86 |
yochanan Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:12:37am |
re: #72 Sharmuta
He admitted it on the video that he voted for ron paul. He's also a Free Stater- one of those personal-liberty-to-the-point-of-anarchy people.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
these peeps? well at least if they all show up in n.h. will we miss them in the other (56)?
| 87 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:12:55am |
re: #80 Sharmuta
It's the one time I've been impressed with Chris Matthews. That should speak for something.
Matthews had an easy target. That is why this guy was chosen. Legal or not, If I were going to a venue where the president was speaking I would be unarmed.
| 88 |
Sharmuta Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:12:56am |
The koslings have already found lots of dirt. I wonder if some on the rightosphere will ignore this and hold this guy up as some sort of martyr.
| 92 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:16:33am |
re: #83 haakondahl
I heard you met up with Pvt. Bin Jammin and redc1c4. Sounded like fun.
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freetoken Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:17:15am |
re: #83 haakondahl
It turns out that I was nowhere near Barstow, ...
Well that is convenient, for Barstow is near nowhere...
Are you in SD now?
| 94 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:18:14am |
re: #88 Sharmuta
The koslings have already found lots of dirt. I wonder if some on the rightosphere will ignore this and hold this guy up as some sort of martyr.
I'm ignoring him and I hope other conservatives will too.
| 95 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:19:55am |
re: #82 iceweasel
I winced when I saw that "tree of liberty" sign. We don't need that.
| 96 |
freetoken Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:20:19am |
re: #88 Sharmuta
The koslings have already found lots of dirt. I wonder if some on the rightosphere will ignore this and hold this guy up as some sort of martyr.
Oh, but make no doubt about it, he is not part of the "rightwing" but rather is (and this should be obvious) a leftwing extremist.
/
| 97 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:20:32am |
re: #94 BatGuano
I'm ignoring him and I hope other conservatives will too.
You know the group he hangs with will high five each other. Kinda like if a 12 year old sees a girls boobie. Idiots.
| 99 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:21:49am |
re: #97 Cannadian Club Akbar
It still bugs me that he reminds me of Cosmo Kramer.
| 102 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:24:11am |
I haven't checked out the dirt on that guy yet, but you know there must be some. The tree of crazy always springs from a little nut.
I'm making my general rounds and have discovered an excellent two -part series on the nirthers over at Esquire. Not much that people here wouldn't already know, but it seems Taitz is way crazier than even we knew. Some of her claims that haven't much made it into the mainstream:
There's a cemetery somewhere in Arizona where they just dug 30,000 fresh graves, which wait now for the revolution.
Baxter International — a major Obama contributor — developed a vaccine for bird flu that actually kills people.
Google Congressman Alcee Hastings and House Bill 684 and you'll see that they're planning at least six civilian labor camps.
Google an article in the San Francisco Chronicle about train cars with shackles.
[Link: www.esquire.com...]
| 103 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:26:16am |
re: #102 iceweasel
Are the claims NOT in italics hers as well?
| 104 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:28:18am |
re: #95 BatGuano
I winced when I saw that "tree of liberty" sign. We don't need that.
Here's a little fact...Guess who was wearing a shirt with that same quote when he was arrested?
That great patriot Timothy McVeigh.
Although Hanger did not read the T-shirt lettering in court, CNN has previously reported the shirt was printed with the Thomas Jefferson quote, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
BTW, SPLC reports that militia group recriutment is at its highest levels since then.
re: #103 Cannadian Club Akbar
Are the claims NOT in italics hers as well?
Yes, sorry-- I screwed up the formatting. Those are all Taitz quotes from the article in Esquire.
| 105 |
SixDegrees Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:34:12am |
re: #87 BatGuano
Matthews had an easy target. That is why this guy was chosen. Legal or not, If I were going to a venue where the president was speaking I would be unarmed.
I sure as hell wouldn't be carrying a sign with the Jefferson quote on it. The sign alone, gun or not, would give cause to haul the jerk carrying it in for an extended round of questioning, ensuring his detention until the President was well out of town.
(This quote was also a favorite of Leftys throughout Bush's term, still flogging his "illegal" election and - just as here - threatening assassination through the quotation. Zombie could probably turn up a number of examples in his archives.)
| 106 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:36:20am |
re: #104 iceweasel
Ice, Timothy McVeigh was too violent for the "Militias". After 911 he was held out as an example of "Christian" terrorism by the Muslims. He is dead and had nothing to do with the right.
| 107 |
haakondahl Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:36:34am |
re: #92 BatGuano
I heard you met up with Pvt. Bin Jammin and redc1c4. Sounded like fun.
It was really good! Completed our plans for world domination, etc.
| 108 |
SixDegrees Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:37:20am |
re: #104 iceweasel
BTW, SPLC reports that militia group recriutment is at its highest levels since then.
Not at all surprising. Extremist groups of all kinds are always at the top of their game during economic downturns. The unemployed and those whose jobs are threatened make easy targets for recruitment to all sorts of groups promising easy answers and easy targets of blame.
| 110 |
haakondahl Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:39:19am |
re: #104 iceweasel
BTW, SPLC reports that militia group recriutment is at its highest levels since then.
I bet ACORN and SEIU recruitment is up as well.
| 111 |
SixDegrees Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:39:38am |
re: #88 Sharmuta
The koslings have already found lots of dirt. I wonder if some on the rightosphere will ignore this and hold this guy up as some sort of martyr.
A disturbing number of respondents on the thread just downstairs are tiptoeing right up to that position, twisting themselves into knots trying to prove him blameless and pure.
| 112 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:40:01am |
re: #107 haakondahl
It was really good! Completed our plans for world domination, etc.
Before you finalize your plans, check with me. :)
| 113 |
haakondahl Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:40:59am |
re: #93 freetoken
Well that is convenient, for Barstow is near nowhere...
Are you in SD now?
Yup. Sitting in my room, packing the remainder of my crap for the trip across the Pacific.
| 114 |
Sharmuta Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:41:04am |
re: #111 SixDegrees
A disturbing number of respondents on the thread just downstairs are tiptoeing right up to that position, twisting themselves into knots trying to prove him blameless and pure.
I know. I fully expect certain people to hold this guy up as a hero. She might even work in one of her trademark typos.
| 115 |
haakondahl Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:41:42am |
re: #111 SixDegrees
A disturbing number of respondents on the thread just downstairs are tiptoeing right up to that position, twisting themselves into knots trying to prove him blameless and pure.
Hmm. BRB.
| 116 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:43:04am |
re: #114 Sharmuta
I know. I fully expect certain people to hold this guy up as a hero. She might even work in one of her trademark typos.
She?
| 117 |
SixDegrees Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:43:28am |
re: #114 Sharmuta
I know. I fully expect certain people to hold this guy up as a hero. She might even work in one of her trademark typos.
Ugh.
| 120 |
SixDegrees Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:45:24am |
re: #118 Sharmuta
Can't you see it now?
It's hard for me to think of her and not visualize a trampoline. You're probably right; she'll be drooling all over this nut.
| 121 |
SixDegrees Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:45:39am |
| 122 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:45:54am |
re: #108 SixDegrees
Not at all surprising. Extremist groups of all kinds are always at the top of their game during economic downturns. The unemployed and those whose jobs are threatened make easy targets for recruitment to all sorts of groups promising easy answers and easy targets of blame.
Exactly. I think we would have seen an increase in activity purely because of the economy. But for the ones associated with white supremacy, some of their surge in recruitment absolutely has to be connected with the election of the first black POTUS.
re: #106 BatGuano
Ice, Timothy McVeigh was too violent for the "Militias".
Militia wanna-be or something would be a better description for him, I agree.
| 123 |
freetoken Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:48:57am |
Made the mistake of checking out WND (to see if they had an article on the gun-slinging protestor)... and what did I find but more fantasizing by Unruh:
Alarmist language over possible outbreaks of swine flu as well as a series of moves by the federal government are fueling fears federal agents will soon be forcing citizens to be vaccinated – prompting one political party to launch a pre-emptive defense against any such effort.
The Constitution Party, a fast-growing alternative to the dominant Democratic and Republican parties in many elections, has come out strongly in opposition to any "mandatory injections" of "potential toxic (H1N1) 'swine flu' vaccine."
[...]
The convergence of the anti-vaxxers with the Constitution party... the nut-o-sphere stew is getting lumpier all the time...
| 124 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:49:34am |
re: #121 SixDegrees
Think silicone.
Is there some religious injunction against mentioning "her" name? I just asked a question.
| 125 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:50:09am |
re: #123 freetoken
I read WND every day. Gotta keep up on the nutballs.
| 126 |
TheMatrix31 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:52:02am |
re: #124 BatGuano
Is there some religious injunction against mentioning "her" name? I just asked a question.
I totslly don't get it either.
| 127 |
srb1976 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:53:07am |
re: #123 freetoken
What's supposed to be the complaint about a flu shot? (Aside from the fact that they are not all that effective)
I'm really confused as to why it would be a big deal...Hell, they give them away @ work
| 128 |
SixDegrees Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:54:24am |
re: #124 BatGuano
Is there some religious injunction against mentioning "her" name? I just asked a question.
No; but I thought most here would have caught on that we were talking about Pammy Geller. I try not to post about her without snarking.
| 129 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:54:56am |
re: #127 srb1976
What's supposed to be the complaint about a flu shot? (Aside from the fact that they are not all that effective)
I'm really confused as to why it would be a big deal...Hell, they give them away @ work
The swine flu shots will KILL YOU!! See IW #102.
| 130 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:56:29am |
re: #129 Cannadian Club Akbar
Forgot the sarc tag, sorry.
| 131 |
TheMatrix31 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:56:47am |
GN dudes. STL is pretty cool. Busch Stadium should be aweaome tomm!
| 132 |
freetoken Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:57:37am |
Speaking of the right-o-sphere, I see PJM's top article right now is Melissa Clouthier defending Sarah Palin's "death panel" statement.
Whatever one thinks of the proposed Health Care bills, defending Mrs. Palin's statement as "... she’s defining the health care debate philosophically" is silly. Sarah Palin was waxing hyperbolically, not philosophically defining anything.
| 133 |
freetoken Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:58:07am |
re: #127 srb1976
I guess the threat is the government is going to force you to take it.
| 134 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:58:41am |
re: #128 SixDegrees
Pam Geller popped in my mind, but the "silicone" thing didn't ring any bells.
| 135 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:59:19am |
re: #133 freetoken
I guess the threat is the government is going to force you to take it.
I have heard from kooks that they are gonna use the shot to microchip all of us.
| 136 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 1:59:41am |
Holy moly...I have discovered what maybe the wingnuttiest wingnut I've seen in a while.
I'm not going to link to it direct, but here's the google cache:
[Link: jaghunters.blogspot.com...]
FEDERAL ARREST OF TREASONER OBAMA IS CREDIBLY REPORTED TO OCCUR IN 60 TO 90 DAYS!
Reports have been coming in for several days that the IMPOSTOR OBAMA will be placed under federal arrest in anywhere from 60 to 90 days for TREASON!
WELL DONE to AMERICA'S GRAND JURIES!
OBAMA'S is to be the first of tens if not hundreds of arrests of OBAMA'S TREASONOUS CRIMINAL ASSISTANTS!
OBAMA's military preparations for OBAMA'S planned deployment of troops into American communities to exercise martial law have been carried out in plain view for months.
Details emerging suggest that military commanders are refusing to obey OBAMA's orders recognizing OBAMA as a TREASONOUS foreign born domestic enemy.
You really have to look at the cache to get the full flavour of crazy, what with all the colour changes and font styles.
Also...Jag Hunter?
| 137 |
littleoldlady Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:00:00am |
Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™
Fruitcup is on the buffet → → → → →
Help yourselves!
| 138 |
SixDegrees Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:00:16am |
re: #134 BatGuano
Pam Geller popped in my mind, but the "silicone" thing didn't ring any bells.
A reference to Pam's penchant for flashing her rack.
| 140 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:01:13am |
re: #137 littleoldlady
On the money!! Mornin' LoL.
| 141 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:01:20am |
| 142 |
srb1976 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:01:30am |
re: #137 littleoldlady
Good Morning to you too, and thanks for the impeccably timed fruitcup!
| 144 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:02:42am |
| 145 |
littleoldlady Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:02:58am |
Whiskey Akbar! :-)
BatGuano! :-)
srb! :-)
| 146 |
littleoldlady Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:03:32am |
re: #144 Cannadian Club Akbar
On the money, timewise, many mornings in a row.
| 147 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:04:38am |
re: #146 littleoldlady
On the money, timewise, many mornings in a row.
But now everyone will expect it, so you have set your bar high:)
| 148 |
freetoken Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:06:22am |
re: #137 littleoldlady
Fruitcup is on the buffet → → → → →
Well, thank you as always, but are you sure there is room on the buffet? It looks like teh crazy has taken up all the room...
| 150 |
littleoldlady Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:07:07am |
| 151 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:07:09am |
re: #113 haakondahl
Yup. Sitting in my room, packing the remainder of my crap for the trip across the Pacific.
A three hour tour
A three hour tour...
| 152 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:10:06am |
re: #149 freetoken
Could be. I can't remember three days ago.
| 153 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:20:53am |
A priest, a minister and a Rabbi walk into a bar. The bartender looks at them and says "What is this, a joke?"
| 154 |
srb1976 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:22:22am |
re: #151 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I thought of you when I saw this FBV...it looks really good but I haven't tried it (seem to remember you saying something about not being able to find vegan cake...sorry if my memory is bad)
| 155 |
littleoldlady Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:24:23am |
What means "vegan cake"? They put meat in cake?
| 156 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:26:14am |
re: #155 littleoldlady
What means "vegan cake"? They put meat in cake?
Some use lard or butter. IIRC, vegan means no meat products. FBV, am I correct?
| 157 |
srb1976 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:26:17am |
re: #155 littleoldlady
What means "vegan cake"? They put meat in cake?
"Vegan" means no eggs or milk either...and those do go in cake
| 158 |
littleoldlady Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:30:29am |
WOW. That's gotta be a tough diet to follow.
/life without eggs is not worth living
//I could live without meat very easily, though
| 159 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:30:36am |
While going over some help wanted ads, someone needs their house cleaned. $250. The ad says it should take 2 days. Um, no.
| 160 |
srb1976 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:31:28am |
re: #155 littleoldlady
What means "vegan cake"? They put meat in cake?
I saw those cupcakes the other day...and they looked good enough to make me want to try to make them...I just don't think anyone here would eat them...especially if they saw the recipe.
(better half is VERY prejudiced against tofu)
| 161 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:34:38am |
In the hullabaloo over "Death Panels" people on both sides of the debate are missing the real issue: under single-payer socialized medical system, medical services will be rationed. For example:
B.C. Gov't to cut over 6,000 surgeries
VANCOUVER -- Vancouver patients needing neurosurgery, treatment for vascular diseases and other medically necessary procedures will wait longer for care as their health authority prepares to cut over 6,000 surgeries under the B.C. Liberals' post-election plan for health care, New Democrats said Monday.
"This will result in thousands of patients suffering longer in pain and undermine the long-term capacity of public health care," said Adrian Dix, New Democrat health critic.
Mr. Dix released a leaked document Monday that shows the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority is looking to close nearly a quarter of its operating rooms starting in September and to cut 6,250 surgeries, including 24% of cases scheduled from September to March and 10% of all medically necessary elective procedures this fiscal year.
The plan proposes cutbacks to neurosurgery, ophthalmology, vascular surgery, and 11 other specialized areas.
In Canada, gov't panels set the number of procedures which will be performed in a given year. For example, the limit could be set at 1000 heart bipasses. Your case has to be judged serious enough by the hospital board to qualify for their allotment of procedures. If you don't make the cut, your case is bumped to next year. No, you don't have a choice, you don't even have a say in it.
These aren't exactly "death panels" as Sarah Palin described them, but there are panels and they are making decisions on who gets life-preserving treatments and who does not.
| 162 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:37:21am |
re: #160 srb1976
Tofu is not a proper ingredient in cupcakes. I'm sorry. I had to say it.
| 163 |
srb1976 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:38:39am |
re: #162 BatGuano
Tofu is not a proper ingredient in cupcakes. I'm sorry. I had to say it.
And I quite agree...but did you see them? Like I said, almost enough to make me want to try to make them...almost.
And I have a fair amount of anti-tofu bias myself...
| 165 |
srb1976 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:42:20am |
| 166 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:42:38am |
| 167 |
srb1976 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:43:44am |
| 168 |
littleoldlady Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:45:28am |
Kenneth! :-)
I just finished shopping for new health insurance. It's not difficult; there are a lot of plans to choose from, and it's actually quite affordable if you spend the time and effort to examine the options carefully. In fact, health insurance for my daughter is cheaper than car insurance!
| 169 |
freetoken Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:49:42am |
Who says there aren't jobs available in California?
Yoga-inspired athletic wear company, lululemon athletica, is looking for a highly motivated, outgoing, upbeat and organized person who believes in the power of community, the impact of yoga/athletics, and the life-altering potential of wearing stretchy pants to work every day.
There you go... if you believe in the life-altering potential of wearing stretchy pants to work, there is a job awaiting you in California!
/only in California...
| 170 |
littleoldlady Wed, Aug 12, 2009 2:57:30am |
I gots to get moving... :-(
| 172 |
BatGuano Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:04:56am |
Good night/ morning every one. See you all later.
| 173 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:05:58am |
| 174 |
Erik The Red Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:06:32am |
re: #137 littleoldlady
Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™
Fruitcup is on the buffet → → → → →
Help yourselves!
Morning {lol} thanks for fruitcup. 3 days in a row:)))
| 175 |
srb1976 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:15:36am |
Alright, that about does it for me too...
Back to the salt mines = )
| 176 |
freetoken Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:20:39am |
Everyone's favorite Paleocon, Pat Buchanan, is at it again...
[...]Ed Rubenstein, who has written for Forbes, National Review and the Wall Street Journal, blogs on VDARE.com that if one uses the household survey of job losses for June-July, Hispanics gained 150,000 positions, while non-Hispanics lost 679,000. Guess who got the stimulus jobs.
[note how approvingly he thinks of VDARE, pimping the website]
[...]
Here is where the disparate impact hits. Among those who benefit most -- the uninsured -- African-Americans, Hispanics and immigrants are overrepresented. Among the biggest losers -- seniors and the elderly sick -- well over 80 percent are white. [...]
Pat is obsessed with race, and in particular, how "whites" are the ones being aggrieved.
| 177 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:21:52am |
re: #168 littleoldlady
I'm in Canada, so opting out of the state system is not an option. Just out of curiosity, how much will you pay for your health insurance, and what will it cover? What does it not cover?
| 178 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:26:31am |
re: #177 Kenneth
May I ask where you are in Canada? Don't be specific.
| 180 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:30:23am |
re: #179 Kenneth
My sister and her family live in Hamilton. Go Ti Cats!!
| 181 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:32:17am |
re: #180 Cannadian Club Akbar
Being a sports fan in Toronto is an exercise in masochism. I gave up on the Leafs long ago. Are you in Canada, or do you just enjoy our fine whiskey?
| 182 |
littleoldlady Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:33:15am |
re: #177 Kenneth
Back for a minute...
My husband is now in the VA system, which is working out okay since - purely by accident - I signed up for one of the best VA facilities in the country.
My daughter and I have a plan that costs $319/month. She's 20. I'm...not young.
It's like an HMO in that there's a small co-pay for every visit, but there's no referrals needed. There is also a co-insurance of $10,000/max per year, HOWEVER, unless either of us have some kind of huge hospital stay, surgery, etc (G-d forbid!) there's no way we'd have to pay anything on that.
| 183 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:34:55am |
re: #181 Kenneth
Being a sports fan in Toronto is an exercise in masochism. I gave up on the Leafs long ago. Are you in Canada, or do you just enjoy our fine whiskey?
I live in Florida, but love CC. I lived in Hamilton for 3 months back in the late '90's. First time I was old enough to see snow and remeber it. I REALLY hope Hamilton gets the Coyotes.
| 184 |
Erik The Red Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:35:06am |
re: #181 Kenneth
Being a sports fan in Toronto is an exercise in masochism. I gave up on the Leafs long ago. Are you in Canada, or do you just enjoy our fine whiskey?
Whiskey, you call that stuff whiskey? Give me Scottish or Irish any day of the week and twice on Sunday. :))
BTW Good Morning Lizards.
| 185 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:36:47am |
re: #184 Erik The Red
Actually, it's a blended whiskey.
| 186 |
littleoldlady Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:37:16am |
re: #182 littleoldlady
One more thing...unlike an HMO, which typically has a 1 million $ lifetime limit, this plan has no limit.
| 187 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:39:38am |
Hi lizards...staggering home @ 4:00 AM with residual flecks of white powder on my face. Don't ask...
Thanks for the fruitcup, LoL...
| 188 |
Erik The Red Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:39:45am |
re: #186 littleoldlady
One more thing...unlike an HMO, which typically has a 1 million $ lifetime limit, this plan has no limit.
I am looking at about $475.00 for my family of 4. This will have drug benefits also. Not to bad.
| 189 |
littleoldlady Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:40:51am |
| 190 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:41:03am |
re: #187 Fenway_Nation
Hi lizards...staggering home @ 4:00 AM with residual flecks of white powder on my face. Don't ask...
Thanks for the fruitcup, LoL...
Please tell me you're not supportng narco-terrorists.
| 191 |
littleoldlady Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:41:32am |
re: #188 Erik The Red
Yup. Less than some car payments.
| 192 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:43:31am |
re: #188 Erik The Red
That is a really good deal. You can also look up Florida Kid Care. Might save you a few bucks.
| 193 |
Erik The Red Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:44:03am |
re: #192 Cannadian Club Akbar
That is a really good deal. You can also look up Florida Kid Care. Might save you a few bucks.
Thanks CCA will do that.
| 194 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:46:23am |
re: #187 Fenway_Nation
Hi lizards...staggering home @ 4:00 AM with residual flecks of white powder on my face. Don't ask...
Thanks for the fruitcup, LoL...
Whoa. That sounds...interesting. :)
| 195 |
littleoldlady Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:50:15am |
Anyhoo...now I'm REALLY out.
/unless Fenway comes up with something so compelling that I must return ... ;-)
*p00f*!
| 197 |
Erik The Red Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:55:27am |
Later Lizards. Early start today. I have to take the oldest to the railway track doctor. Stay Scaly.
| 198 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:57:58am |
| 199 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:58:35am |
| 200 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 3:59:25am |
Did anyone mention yesterday the way Hillary reacted when someone asked about what Bill thought?
| 201 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:01:15am |
re: #200 MandyManners
Did anyone mention yesterday the way Hillary reacted when someone asked about what Bill thought?
I didn't see anything as far as a reaction here, but, man, I feel bad for the girl who asked the question. Seems there was a mix up in translation. Hillary needs pills.
| 202 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:02:05am |
Good morning.
The stock futures are mixed this morning as the investors await the Fed's discussion later today of the economic condition.
I got a news flash for them, until GDP is growing and employment in increasing, it's not doing well.
| 203 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:03:54am |
re: #202 3 wood
I saw a woman on CBS last week that said things were fine except the unemployment rate. Um, really? I bet she spends her private time splitting atoms.
/
| 204 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:04:22am |
re: #201 Cannadian Club Akbar
I didn't see anything as far as a reaction here, but, man, I feel bad for the girl who asked the question. Seems there was a mix up in translation. Hillary needs pills.
On the one hand, I can understand Hillary's reaction. I'm sure she's endured such questions for a long time. On the other hand, she needs thicker skin.
| 205 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:05:56am |
re: #201 Cannadian Club Akbar
I didn't see anything as far as a reaction here, but, man, I feel bad for the girl who asked the question. Seems there was a mix up in translation. Hillary needs pills.
There was a translation problem? I hadn't heard that. I don't blame Hillary at all for her reaction, btw.
re: #196 MandyManners
My! People come and go so quickly here!
Upding for the Alice in Wonderland ref!
| 206 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:07:02am |
re: #200 MandyManners
Did anyone mention yesterday the way Hillary reacted when someone asked about what Bill thought?
Oh yeah.
Obama has done everything he can to marginalize her, big things are happening around the world while she's off on a tour of the middle of no where, and then she gets that.
Kind of reminded me when one of my kids asked Mom if she was going to make anything "good" for dinner.
Ouch.
| 207 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:08:13am |
re: #205 iceweasel
[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]
| 208 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:08:16am |
| 209 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:09:13am |
re: #205 iceweasel
There was a translation problem? I hadn't heard that. I don't blame Hillary at all for her reaction, btw.
One version has it that the student asked what her superior, meaning Obama, thought and the translator mixed it up.
| 210 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:09:44am |
re: #206 3 wood
Oh yeah.
Obama has done everything he can to marginalize her, big things are happening around the world while she's off on a tour of the middle of no where, and then she gets that.
Kind of reminded me when one of my kids asked Mom if she was going to make anything "good" for dinner.
Ouch.
To what extent can a SoS set her own schedule?
| 211 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:10:00am |
re: #190 MandyManners
re: #194 iceweasel
re: #195 littleoldlady
Not as debauched or as fun as it sounds...my temp agency managed to find me a job that most Americans won't do working the swing shift for some packer & distributor for herbal supplements.
/40 hrs a week and all the silicates I can inhale...
| 212 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:10:59am |
re: #211 Fenway_Nation
re: #194 iceweasel
re: #195 littleoldlady
Not as debauched or as fun as it sounds...my temp agency managed to find me a job
thatmost Americanswon't doworking the swing shift for some packer & distributor for herbal supplements./40 hrs a week and all the silicates I can inhale...
I figured it was job related or that you had done a lot of laundry.
Can you wear a mask?
| 213 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:11:55am |
Are any of those three kidnapped Americans in Iran Jewish?
| 214 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:12:08am |
re: #211 Fenway_Nation
re: #194 iceweasel
re: #195 littleoldlady
Not as debauched or as fun as it sounds...my temp agency managed to find me a job
thatmost Americanswon't doworking the swing shift for some packer & distributor for herbal supplements./40 hrs a week and all the silicates I can inhale...
Is it a Columbian temp agency?
| 215 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:12:33am |
re: #212 MandyManners
Yes...altho' that wasn't pointed out to some of my fellow temps until the 2nd or 3rd night there...
| 216 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:13:32am |
re: #215 Fenway_Nation
Yes...altho' that wasn't pointed out to some of my fellow temps until the 2nd or 3rd night there...
Neither the agency nor the company have heard of OSHA?
| 217 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:13:59am |
re: #214 Cannadian Club Akbar
All the silicates I can inhale whether I like it or not...
| 218 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:17:00am |
Inflation is starting to be seen and felt in the economy:
Mortgage Applications Drop as Loan Rates Rise
U.S. mortgage applications fell last week, reflecting a drop in demand for home refinancing loans as interest rates soared to their highest levels since June, data from an industry group showed on Wednesday.The Mortgage Bankers Association said its seasonally adjusted index of mortgage applications, which includes both purchase and refinance loans, for the week ended Aug. 7 decreased 3.5 percent to 499.0.
Celia Chen, senior director of housing economics at Moody's Economy.com in West Chester, Pennsylvania, said higher interest rates on mortgages tend to depress home buying, but that demand is not as sensitive to changes in rates as it is in refinancing activity.
"Even though mortgage rates are rising, they still remain quite affordable," she said. "The bigger obstacle to home buying is job losses and tight qualifying conditions for borrowing," she said.
Now, one week's data is not a trend, but it the situation bears watching.
As I have been saying, you can create the illusion of prosperity for a short time by borrowing, but eventually the tab comes due. Part of the tab for all the deficit spending Obama has been doing plus the pumping of money into the financial system by the Fed's is inflation.
Bear in mind that the rates are going up now despite the Fed's artificially holding the short end of the yield curve down by manipulating the financial market, imagine what will happen when they stop doing that.
| 220 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:17:51am |
re: #216 MandyManners
Apparently the company hadn't heard of (or taken seriously) the INS, which I'm told is what lead to their labor shortage in the first place...
| 221 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:18:17am |
re: #210 MandyManners
To what extent can a SoS set her own schedule?
I think it depends on the dynamics of the relationship between the President and the Secretary of State.
| 222 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:19:44am |
re: #221 3 wood
I think it depends on the dynamics of the relationship between the President and the Secretary of State.
They hate each other. But Zero is the boss. She isn't used to that, even when Bill was da man.
| 223 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:20:19am |
“It was obviously packed with Obama’s supporters, and I don’t think that it was especially effective. I don’t think he convinced anybody who doesn’t already support it,” said Larry Sabato, head of the University of Virginia Center for Politics.
SNIP
Go, Larry.
| 224 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:21:02am |
re: #220 Fenway_Nation
Apparently the company hadn't heard of (or taken seriously) the INS, which I'm told is what lead to their labor shortage in the first place...
Well, if it ignorest one law, it's no surprise that it ignores others.
| 225 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:23:05am |
re: #221 3 wood
I think it depends on the dynamics of the relationship between the President and the Secretary of State.
FCBBHO as Geppetto: "Dance, Hillary. Dance."
| 226 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:23:41am |
re: #222 Cannadian Club Akbar
They hate each other. But Zero is the boss. She isn't used to that, even when Bill was da man.
Ummm...what? Bill was her boss?
| 227 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:23:54am |
| 228 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:24:19am |
re: #225 MandyManners
FCBBHO as Geppetto: "Dance, Hillary. Dance."
If Zero REALLY wanted to be a bastard, he would ask her to resign.
| 229 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:25:02am |
re: #224 MandyManners
Oh yeah...I was doing a mental inventory of federal agencies this place could/might've run afoul of...
FDA, OSHA, the IRS...altho' if there's any truth to the INS raid story, they're probably on their best behavior for the time being so they don't attract the unwanted attention of the other alphabet-soup agencies.
| 230 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:26:42am |
re: #209 3 wood
One version has it that the student asked what her superior, meaning Obama, thought and the translator mixed it up.
Thanks, hadn't heard that.
I'm not convinced Obama and Hillary hate each other. I think there's a certain shared understanding there that politics is a rough game.
| 231 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:27:18am |
Sports Nerd Corner:
Yesterday I was asked about my thoughts on the NFL signing Mike Vick, of dog fighting fame. I said that I thought no NFL team would take a risk on him until he proved he could still play. Here is an article on the same topic:
Michael Vick’s Next Mistake: His Media Plan
Given the baggage he comes with, Michael Vick’s public relations strategy is as important as his skill on the field.I obviously haven’t seen how the years out of the game have affected the spiral on his ball, but whoever is handling his comeback from a media standpoint, if there is anyone who is even doing that, is failing miserably.
This morning, Vick’s mentor, former Indianapolis Colts head coach Tony Dungy, told ESPN Radio’s “Mike & Mike” that he thinks an NFL team would sign Vick this week.
Really?
Vick hasn’t even surfaced for one big public apology yet – the one he gave before prison time doesn’t count - and the truth is that no team will sign him until that happens.
Bottom line is, after sitting out 2 years of football, the pro's will want to see that he can still produce before they ever consider taking a risk on him. He was never that good of a pure passer and could not read a defense to save his life, his value was in scrambling. If he has lost so much as a step over 2 years of inactivity and age, he is useless as a QB in the NFL.
If I were and NFL GM I would not let him near in my camp. Too much baggage and risk.
| 232 |
Dar ul Harbarian Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:27:53am |
Camille Paglia on Palin's "Death Panel"
As a libertarian and refugee from the authoritarian Roman Catholic church of my youth, I simply do not understand the drift of my party toward a soulless collectivism. This is in fact what Sarah Palin hit on in her shocking image of a "death panel" under Obamacare that would make irrevocable decisions about the disabled and elderly. When I first saw that phrase, headlined on the Drudge Report, I burst out laughing. It seemed so over the top! But on reflection, I realized that Palin's shrewdly timed metaphor spoke directly to the electorate's unease with the prospect of shadowy, unelected government figures controlling our lives. A death panel not only has the power of life and death but is itself a symptom of a Kafkaesque brave new world where authority has become remote, arbitrary and spectral. And as in the Spanish Inquisition, dissidence is heresy, persecuted and punished.
| 233 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:28:37am |
re: #218 3 wood
Will this just apply to lending, or will this also apply to the 'traditional' investment inturments such as Certificates of Deposit or Savings Bonds?
| 234 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:29:39am |
re: #231 3 wood
Vick could never do anything against the Buccaneers.
| 235 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:29:50am |
| 236 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:30:22am |
re: #228 Cannadian Club Akbar
If Zero REALLY wanted to be a bastard, he would ask her to resign.
Nah. Sending her to backwaters humiliates her.
| 237 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:31:21am |
re: #229 Fenway_Nation
Oh yeah...I was doing a mental inventory of federal agencies this place could/might've run afoul of...
FDA, OSHA, the IRS...altho' if there's any truth to the INS raid story, they're probably on their best behavior for the time being so they don't attract the unwanted attention of the other alphabet-soup agencies.
Does INS seize financial information?
| 238 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:31:53am |
re: #231 3 wood
Sports Nerd Corner:
Yesterday I was asked about my thoughts on the NFL signing Mike Vick, of dog fighting fame. I said that I thought no NFL team would take a risk on him until he proved he could still play. Here is an article on the same topic:
Michael Vick’s Next Mistake: His Media Plan
Bottom line is, after sitting out 2 years of football, the pro's will want to see that he can still produce before they ever consider taking a risk on him. He was never that good of a pure passer and could not read a defense to save his life, his value was in scrambling. If he has lost so much as a step over 2 years of inactivity and age, he is useless as a QB in the NFL.If I were and NFL GM I would not let him near in my camp. Too much baggage and risk.
you're wrong 3, methinks you probably stick to finance where you excel.
| 239 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:32:30am |
| 240 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:32:37am |
re: #222 Cannadian Club Akbar
They hate each other. But Zero is the boss. She isn't used to that, even when Bill was da man.
Correct, I worked for someone who hated me for 7 years early in my career, and the feeling was mutual. Did not make for a good working situation. After the first 3 years of this, we had a meeting to discuss it and we agreed to to talk to each other ever again, we worked through memos, so for the next 4 years I literally never said a word to my boss and vice versa.
Boy was I glad to get out of there.
Several months after I left that position, the person they hired to replace me called and asked me how in the world I had managed to deal with the jerk boss for 7 years.
| 241 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:32:38am |
re: #237 MandyManners
I'm not sure...the only immediate financial impact I could think of is depriving a company of cheap labor...
| 242 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:33:01am |
| 243 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:33:31am |
re: #236 MandyManners
Nah. Sending her to backwaters humiliates her.
An entire continent is now a "backwater"?
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]
Bush did some great things for Africa, btw. Probably more than any POTUS ever.
I really don't understand this theory that Obama somehow insulted Hillary by making her SoS. It kind of reminds me of the desperate belief prior to the election that there were all these PUMAs who would never-ever vote for Obama.
| 244 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:33:45am |
re: #230 iceweasel
Thanks, hadn't heard that.
I'm not convinced Obama and Hillary hate each other. I think there's a certain shared understanding there that politics is a rough game.
Are you saying Hillary likes it rough? /
Seriously that was a very bad mistake by a pol who professes to be an expert in international relations. Her husband was the President for 8 years and he was just in the news as a hostage negotiator. She should be prepared for some questions about him. A better response would have been a non-snotty "I can't speak for my husband but here is what I think..."
In fact a lot of the anger the current administration is facing could be turned away by ratcheting down the condescension.
| 245 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:33:47am |
re: #233 Fenway_Nation
Will this just apply to lending, or will this also apply to the 'traditional' investment inturments such as Certificates of Deposit or Savings Bonds?
The same dynamics will apply, although the actual rate increase will depend on market conditions.
| 246 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:33:55am |
| 247 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:34:29am |
re: #241 Fenway_Nation
I'm not sure...the only immediate financial impact I could think of is depriving a company of cheap labor...
Did they pay all required taxes on those illegals?
| 248 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:35:08am |
re: #243 iceweasel
An entire continent is now a "backwater"?
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]
Bush did some great things for Africa, btw. Probably more than any POTUS ever.
I really don't understand this theory that Obama somehow insulted Hillary by making her SoS. It kind of reminds me of the desperate belief prior to the election that there were all these PUMAs who would never-ever vote for Obama.
Where did I say an entire continent is a backwater?
| 249 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:35:09am |
re: #245 3 wood
Yea...and we have 'til November for when they reset the APY for Savings bonds...
| 250 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:35:18am |
re: #243 iceweasel
An entire continent is now a "backwater"?
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]
Bush did some great things for Africa, btw. Probably more than any POTUS ever.
I really don't understand this theory that Obama somehow insulted Hillary by making her SoS. It kind of reminds me of the desperate belief prior to the election that there were all these PUMAs who would never-ever vote for Obama.
It's pretty straightforward. Obama is, essentially, bringing her to heel by conning her into a job she REALLY doesn't want and essentially dead-ends her political career. Sure, she could bounce back from being SoS to run for President again, but after the lamest administration in history, would anyone actually vote for her?
| 251 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:35:33am |
Gotta' drag The Kid outta' bed and grab some caffeine. bbiab
| 252 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:36:07am |
re: #230 iceweasel
I'm not convinced Obama and Hillary hate each other.
May the Lord preserve your innocence.
| 253 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:36:34am |
re: #244 DaddyG
Are you saying Hillary likes it rough? /
ha! :)
Seriously that was a very bad mistake by a pol who professes to be an expert in international relations. Her husband was the President for 8 years and he was just in the news as a hostage negotiator. She should be prepared for some questions about him. A better response would have been a non-snotty "I can't speak for my husband but here is what I think..."
I don't know. As a woman myself in a largely male dominated field, I can easily understand how one's patience sometimes kind of snaps with this sort of thing.
In any case a snippy response to one questioner isn't a real big deal, IMO. It's just the fake story du jour.
| 254 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:36:45am |
re: #247 MandyManners
Dunno...wonder if that's something the INS or ICE would hand off to another agency.
| 255 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:37:14am |
| 256 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:37:28am |
re: #250 thedopefishlives
Sure, [Hillary] could bounce back from being SoS to run for President again, but after the lamest administration in history, would anyone actually vote for her?
She could run as the loyal opposition who has tried to support the President but can no longer abide his inexperience and mistakes.
| 257 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:37:44am |
re: #254 Fenway_Nation
Dunno...wonder if that's something the INS or ICE would hand off to another agency.
I think employers match the taxes every quarter.
| 258 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:37:57am |
Well, lizards...time for me to get some shuteye. Gotta be at work bright and early this afternoon.
| 259 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:38:16am |
re: #256 DaddyG
She could run as the loyal opposition who has tried to support the President but can no longer abide his inexperience and mistakes.
Hillary? Loyal? *snort* *giggle*
| 260 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:38:35am |
re: #253 iceweasel
I don't know. As a woman myself in a largely male dominated field, I can easily understand how one's patience sometimes kind of snaps with this sort of thing.
In any case a snippy response to one questioner isn't a real big deal, IMO. It's just the fake story du jour.
That we agree on. With everything else going on it was a chance for Drudge to put up an unflattering pic of Hillary. Not real news IMO.
| 261 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:38:51am |
re: #238 apachegunner
you're wrong 3, methinks you probably stick to finance where you excel.
Oh, I very well could be wrong. But I know some NFL GM'd and I'm just telling you what they are thinking in terms of Vick.
2 years is a longtime to sit out of the NFL and still be able to produce at that level.
And some, though not all, don't want a criminal like him around their camp, too many other issues.
| 262 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:39:42am |
re: #261 3 wood
He needs to be a WR or a corner.
| 263 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:39:51am |
re: #259 thedopefishlives
Hillary? Loyal? *snort* *giggle*
;-) That's the spin I'd put on it if I were advising her to do an end around. But yeah, that sounds pretty silly.
| 264 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:40:10am |
| 265 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:40:10am |
re: #253 iceweasel
I don't know. As a woman myself in a largely male dominated field, I can easily understand how one's patience sometimes kind of snaps with this sort of thing.
In any case a snippy response to one questioner isn't a real big deal, IMO. It's just the fake story du jour.
"Fake"? You mean it didn't happen?
I don't blame her for getting her knickers in a twist.
| 266 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:40:39am |
re: #262 Cannadian Club Akbar
He needs to be a WR or a corner.
They could make Vick a trainer. He's got experience I hear. /
(No love lost here in ATL.)
| 267 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:40:42am |
re: #250 thedopefishlives
It's pretty straightforward. Obama is, essentially, bringing her to heel by conning her into a job she REALLY doesn't want and essentially dead-ends her political career.
If she didn't want the job, she didn't have to accept it.
It's not as if she was going to launch another (and successful) campaign for POTUS from her Senate seat in 2016. There's also the age factor.
I don't get this mythology of her somehow having been 'conned' and SoS somehow being a make-work position.
Look, if Obama really wanted her out of the way, he'd have offered her a cushy ambassadorship somewhere. That's been the traditional political expedient for rewarding cronies and removing them from genuine power at the same time.
| 268 |
yesandno Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:41:14am |
re: #204 MandyManners
On the one hand, I can understand Hillary's reaction. I'm sure she's endured such questions for a long time. On the other hand, she needs thicker skin.
All that thick stuff has fallen to her ankles.
| 269 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:41:35am |
re: #254 Fenway_Nation
Dunno...wonder if that's something the INS or ICE would hand off to another agency.
If this nation were serious about stopping illegals, an electronic microscope would be stuck up the butt of every company that knowingly hired them.
| 270 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:42:17am |
re: #265 MandyManners
"Fake"? You mean it didn't happen?
I don't blame her for getting her knickers in a twist.
Oh, I'm with you on that...I just don't think it especially deserves much attention.
| 271 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:43:04am |
re: #266 DaddyG
They could make Vick a trainer. He's got experience I hear. /
(No love lost here in ATL.)
At least those trainees want to do what they're told.
| 272 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:43:30am |
re: #261 3 wood
Oh, I very well could be wrong. But I know some NFL GM'd and I'm just telling you what they are thinking in terms of Vick.
2 years is a longtime to sit out of the NFL and still be able to produce at that level.
And some, though not all, don't want a criminal like him around their camp, too many other issues.
I hated Vic on the field, playing my team. The guy paid his due after the horrible thing he did, wether or not he is truly sorry or just sorry he got caught doesn't make much difference. I think he has learned the lesson, some kind of lesson, and is better for it. He will be a starter in the NFL before the season ends. Watch for an announcement Sunday.
| 273 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:43:33am |
re: #265 MandyManners
"Fake"? You mean it didn't happen?
I don't blame her for getting her knickers in a twist.
Neither do I but she should be prepared for awkward questions and inquiries about her husband and have ready but polite responses. I would expect that out of any Sec. State. At some point everyone has a job where they need to think about how they portray the organization they work for. In her case being the #1 diplomat for a superpower should temper her responses no matter how her ego is dinged.
| 274 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:43:41am |
GAH. bbiab Gotta' go get my pitchfork to pry The Kid outta' bed.
| 275 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:44:19am |
Wednesday Look Ahead: Fed Dilemma
There's a growing sense the dollar may be ready to stretch its legs and jump off the financial seesaw that has kept it trading in an opposite direction to risk assets, like commodities and stocks.
Stock investors took profits Tuesday in a selling spree that took the S&P 500 down 12 points to 994, an important level to market technicians. The Dow was off 96 at 9241. Treasurys saw buyers along the curve, gathering strength from the drop in equities and a well-bid $37 billion auction of 3-year notes.
Translation:
As interest rates rise with inflation, some money will move from the stock market into fixed income instruments attracted by the higher rates at very little risk. That will serve as a drag on stock market growth.
| 276 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:44:41am |
re: #265 MandyManners
"Fake"? You mean it didn't happen?
I don't blame her for getting her knickers in a twist.
I don't think she wears "knickers" more likely "tighty whities"
| 277 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:44:45am |
re: #264 apachegunner
or is it too late? morning ICE :>)
Hey apachegunner! What's up?
/yes, far too late. As Austin Powers said, that train has sailed. :)
| 278 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:45:01am |
re: #272 apachegunner
He can't play until week 6, besides one preseason game. IIRC.
| 279 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:45:32am |
re: #262 Cannadian Club Akbar
He needs to be a WR or a corner.
He does not have the hands to be a receiver, nor the quicks for a corner. I'm thinking maybe safety.
| 280 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:47:15am |
re: #267 iceweasel
Look, if Obama really wanted her out of the way, he'd have offered her a cushy ambassadorship somewhere. That's been the traditional political expedient for rewarding cronies and removing them from genuine power at the same time.
Morning iceweasel. Good to see you up and about. :) Honestly, this is exactly what I thought he was doing. Exactly WHAT power does the Secretary of State have these days, anyway? The power to write strongly worded letters? /
| 281 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:47:25am |
I am off to the salt mines. I'll text ya later if I get lunch or a break this afternoon. Take care Lizards!
| 282 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:48:04am |
re: #280 thedopefishlives
Morning iceweasel. Good to see you up and about. :) Honestly, this is exactly what I thought he was doing. Exactly WHAT power does the Secretary of State have these days, anyway? The power to write strongly worded letters? /
That makes her as powerful as the entire UN Security Council!
| 283 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:48:36am |
re: #277 iceweasel
Hey apachegunner! What's up?
/yes, far too late. As Austin Powers said, that train has sailed. :)
train has sailed? what a metaphor in the morning. Has the sailboat left the station? Did Austin really say that? Gotta pay more attention while watching such drivel.
| 284 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:49:09am |
re: #278 Cannadian Club Akbar
He can't play until week 6, besides one preseason game. IIRC.
I said he be a starter before the end of the season CC.
| 285 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:51:28am |
re: #284 apachegunner
I said he be a starter before the end of the season CC.
I know. But unless a team is in contention, they would probably want to groom the young guys.
| 286 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:52:42am |
re: #285 Cannadian Club Akbar
I know. But unless a team is in contention, they would probably want to groom the young guys.
he isn't that old
| 287 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:53:40am |
re: #280 thedopefishlives
Morning iceweasel. Good to see you up and about. :) Honestly, this is exactly what I thought he was doing. Exactly WHAT power does the Secretary of State have these days, anyway? The power to write strongly worded letters? /
Well, SoS is kind of first in the firing line, enforcer, etc. If anything it requires someone willing to go out there and be in the trenches. Seems like a pretty thankless position, in many respects-- you get all of the attention and none of the real power, and the POTUS always has his ass covered; he or she can backtrack and claim the SoS 'misspoke'.
That's one reason why it seems pretty clear (to me) that this isn't a punishment or a marginalisation of Hillary-- she gets to have input to Obama personally (how much we don't know); it's a position you wouldn't give someone who wouldn't unquestioningly back you up (at least publicly)...really, Obama demonstrated that he was willing to hand her the knife and turn his back. This kind of defanged her, and her supporters.
I think it was a pretty damn smart move, over all. For a lot of reasons.
Good to see you too! :)
| 288 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 4:59:54am |
re: #287 iceweasel
Eh, see, I view it from the opposite direction. He put her in a place where she HAS to agree with him, because if she doesn't, he will light her up like a Christmas tree and she'll look like a fool in front of the whole world. He gets to keep his eye on her and make sure she's not scheming to dethrone him, whilst simultaneously dead-ending her career and also getting the added bonus of making her his puppet -- OR ELSE.
*shrugs* Two sides of the same coin, probably. I think we can both agree that whatever his motive, clearly, it's working, or she would've mysteriously resigned long ago.
| 289 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:04:13am |
Good morning all. I see things are a little calmer this morning. Lets hope it stays that way.
| 291 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:05:32am |
re: #289 BlueCanuck
Good morning all. I see things are a little calmer this morning. Lets hope it stays that way.
I think Charles has disposed of most of the riffraff that were causing the real problems.
| 292 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:08:27am |
re: #289 BlueCanuck
Good morning all. I see things are a little calmer this morning. Lets hope it stays that way.
Hey, BC. Good to see you! I think you may have spoken slightly too soon.
re: #291 thedopefishlives
I think Charles has disposed of most of the riffraff that were causing the real problems.
I wasn't here. What did I miss? Or am I happier not knowing?
| 293 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:09:50am |
re: #291 thedopefishlives
Really? Which riff raff are we talking about?
| 294 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:10:33am |
re: #292 iceweasel
I wasn't here. What did I miss? Or am I happier not knowing?
Charles made mention in yesterday's open thread that a number of people and their sock puppets were making it a habit to run around and downding anyone who wasn't rabidly supporting their extremist right-wing positions. Last I knew, he and Stinky were busily engaged in eliminating such. I do hope we can all be more civil than seems to have been the case the past few days, at any rate.
| 295 |
lincolntf Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:11:12am |
Morning all.
I was happy to see that Camille Paglia has finally stated what every one in the Obama Administration denies...
"You can keep your doctor; you can keep your insurance, if you're happy with it, Obama keeps assuring us in soothing, lullaby tones. Oh, really? And what if my doctor is not the one appointed by the new government medical boards for ruling on my access to tests and specialists? And what if my insurance company goes belly up because of undercutting by its government-bankrolled competitor? Face it: Virtually all nationalized health systems, neither nourished nor updated by profit-driven private investment, eventually lead to rationing."
Whole article
Good job, Cam.
| 296 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:11:30am |
According to the Chicago Tribune, Bohemian National Cemetery has an accomodation for departed Cub fans. There is a 24 foot replica of a Wrigley Field wall with vines.
Bleachers face the wall. In the wall are creamated remains of die hard Cub fans.
This could be a little over the top.
| 297 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:12:36am |
re: #292 iceweasel
I wasn't here. What did I miss? Or am I happier not knowing?
well ICE, we spoke of you a bunch. ended up you are a respected lizard and no one will *$%& with you any longer ;>)
| 298 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:13:36am |
re: #3 freetoken
Maybe they'd like to build the world a home, and furnish it with love?
This is another song that uses the "common meter" and can be song to the tune of Gilligan's Island or Amazing Grace, and vice versa.
| 299 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:13:37am |
re: #296 opnion
According to the Chicago Tribune, Bohemian National Cemetery has an accomodation for departed Cub fans. There is a 24 foot replica of a Wrigley Field wall with vines.
Bleachers face the wall. In the wall are creamated remains of die hard Cub fans.
This could be a little over the top.
He needs to add a TV to watch games.
| 300 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:13:43am |
At times, The Kid would drive Mother Teresa to drink.
| 301 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:14:33am |
| 302 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:15:18am |
| 303 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:17:22am |
re: #297 apachegunner
well ICE, we spoke of you a bunch. ended up you are a respected lizard and no one will *$%& with you any longer ;>)
Not really true. Yes she is respected I will agree with that. Lizards though when they get a sacred cow in their maw will lash out at anybody. Good arguments go that way though.
| 304 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:17:27am |
re: #301 apachegunner
as he/she has you?
No. If I drank every time he irritated the snot outta' me, I'd be swackered all the time.
| 305 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:17:57am |
re: #303 BlueCanuck
Not really true. Yes she is respected I will agree with that. Lizards though when they get a sacred cow in their maw will lash out at anybody. Good arguments go that way though.
awww, now there ya go again
| 306 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:18:20am |
re: #304 MandyManners
No. If I drank every time he irritated the snot outta' me, I'd be swackered all the time.
and?
| 307 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:18:24am |
re: #304 MandyManners
No. If I drank every time he irritated the snot outta' me, I'd be swackered all the time.
You mean you're not?
*ducks*
| 308 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:19:02am |
I caught a little of the Obama Town Hall highlights last night.
If the attendees resulted from a lottery it had to be the Barack Obama Fan Club participating.
They were cahnting "Yes we can" & the questions were like underhand lobs.
I expected someone to ask, "Mr. President, why are you so wonderful?"
| 309 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:19:08am |
re: #288 thedopefishlives
*shrugs* Two sides of the same coin, probably. I think we can both agree that whatever his motive, clearly, it's working, or she would've mysteriously resigned long ago.
Yep. I think we agree on that for sure.
re: #294 thedopefishlives
Charles made mention in yesterday's open thread that a number of people and their sock puppets were making it a habit to run around and downding anyone who wasn't rabidly supporting their extremist right-wing positions. Last I knew, he and Stinky were busily engaged in eliminating such. I do hope we can all be more civil than seems to have been the case the past few days, at any rate.
That's interesting. Good to know he's on top of it. Not surprising!
I haven't always been as civil as I could be myself, that's for sure.
Don't know who he's banned, but I will say I noticed a while ago I had a few downdingers who would mysteriously appear and go through old threads diligently downdinging everything I said-- including a comment as innocent as saying "hello". I'm sure I'm not the only one that happens to though.
I've said before that LGF remains one of the best places for political discussion on the net, not merely because the vast majority of posters are intelligent and well-informed, but because Charles does an extraordinary job of policing the commentariat. Most political blog with an active commentariat either degenerate into a free-for-all (HuffPo, Kos, HotAir) or simply shut off comments all together.
Or they keep comments, but only because everyone already agrees and there's no need for debate (that would describe the vast majority of the progblogs I hang out on).
| 310 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:19:24am |
re: #77 Cannadian Club Akbar
I saw a Bush speech in '04. Secret Service all over the surrounding buildings (it was held in a baseball stadium) Planes everywhere. Had to get there 4 hours early. I barely wanted to carry my car keys.
I'd get in trouble if I carried my car keys. I have one of these on my keyring.
| 311 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:19:32am |
Good morning lizards...
I am interested in when it is "okay" to downding someone..
revenge??
| 312 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:20:49am |
| 313 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:20:54am |
re: #311 quiet man
Good morning lizards...
I am interested in when it is "okay" to downding someone..
revenge??
Typically used on trolls, or when someone starts dipping into the flame bucket.
| 314 |
UncleRancher Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:20:59am |
G'mornin lizards. I see I'm late but I am back. Ok, next question. Who has number 18?
| 316 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:21:35am |
re: #297 apachegunner
well ICE, we spoke of you a bunch. ended up you are a respected lizard and no one will *$%& with you any longer ;>)
Cheers a-g. :)
I probably won't go check it out. To be honest I avoided this place yesterday because it's been getting me down.
| 317 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:22:25am |
re: #305 apachegunner
awww, now there ya go again
Not starting an argument. Nope, not at all. Just giving my viewpoint on how I have seen somethings escalate and degrade. Come to think about it, I believe I have acted that way from time to time when my sacred cows got gored...
| 318 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:22:33am |
Gotta' git. I hope the assholes either get out of my way or stay way behind me.
This is what I need for the commute.
[Link: www.metacafe.com...]
Hat-tip to some loverly Lizard about two years ago.
| 319 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:23:27am |
re: #309 iceweasel
I've said before that LGF remains one of the best places for political discussion on the net, not merely because the vast majority of posters are intelligent and well-informed, but because Charles does an extraordinary job of policing the commentariat. Most political blog with an active commentariat either degenerate into a free-for-all (HuffPo, Kos, HotAir) or simply shut off comments all together.Or they keep comments, but only because everyone already agrees and there's no need for debate (that would describe the vast majority of the progblogs I hang out on).
I definitely agree with you here, and that's why I stay. Comment threads here can thrive without worrying that it'll get out of hand - well, more out of hand than can be reasonably expected, I guess.
| 320 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:23:39am |
re: #317 BlueCanuck
Not starting an argument. Nope, not at all. Just giving my viewpoint on how I have seen somethings escalate and degrade. Come to think about it, I believe I have acted that way from time to time when my sacred cows got gored...
s'ok I was just doing my RR thing pal
| 321 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:23:43am |
re: #313 thedopefishlives
Typically used on trolls, or when someone starts dipping into the flame bucket.
If I downding someone, it's generally because I disagree with what they're saying and I let them know that. Or, I might downding a specific comment for a specific reason, and I generally explain that, too.
Charles was referring primarily to the sockpuppets used for "stealth dinging", who never post or comment or explain, but just go into old threads and execute mass downdings to lower peoples' karma scores as if that actually matters anyway.
| 322 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:23:58am |
re: #315 taxfreekiller
mandy
leave the door of the kids room just a little open
30 min before time for the kid to be up start making
noise in the kitchen, put something in the skillet that
makes lots of noise frying, and smells good, keep the
noise going, when the kid ask what is going on do not answer
just keep the racket up, from time to time hum or sing a song...the kid will get up to come to see what the hell is going on
change the tactics from time to time, do not be lured into
the kids lair (room) where the kid knows the ropes better than youlike that
Good idea but, the kitchen is on the second floor, two floors down from his room. That'd take a lot of bacon grease.
bbl
| 323 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:24:46am |
re: #79 BatGuano
I couldn't watch it all. I had heard enough. Two things I despise: Chris Matthews and ***holes.
But you repeat yourself.
| 324 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:24:56am |
re: #313 thedopefishlives
The flame bucket isn't getting any smaller.
I understand that one may not speak to certain subjects, nor ask questions that could be considered as a support to those subjects without getting a storm of downdings...both from Charles and a select few..and I am willing to stay within those constraints to be allowed to have an account.
I do fear my days being numbered anyway.
| 325 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:25:05am |
re: #303 BlueCanuck
Lizards though when they get a sacred cow in their maw will lash out at anybody. Good arguments go that way though.
I think it's pretty clear I can take a punch (or several) and give back as good as I get.
Nothing wrong with attacking sacred cows. It's kind of my hobby.
Not cool when lizards act like piranhas that scent blood in the water and decide to swarm. IMO. That's bad behaviour, on any site.
| 326 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:25:12am |
re: #311 quiet man
Good morning lizards...
I am interested in when it is "okay" to downding someone..
revenge??
If you are active in an argument, or active posting. Usually it's up to you if you disagree with something. What was going on though were people that were registered but didn't contribute a damn thing to the discussion. If you are going to give it out, you must be willing to recieve it as well.
| 327 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:25:36am |
| 328 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:26:06am |
re: #321 JamesTKirk
If I downding someone, it's generally because I disagree with what they're saying and I let them know that. Or, I might downding a specific comment for a specific reason, and I generally explain that, too.
Charles was referring primarily to the sockpuppets used for "stealth dinging", who never post or comment or explain, but just go into old threads and execute mass downdings to lower peoples' karma scores as if that actually matters anyway.
speaking of the karma thing i don't believe mine works right, geeesh, how can it be so low after all these years. i think the big lizard has a hand in this :>(
| 329 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:27:34am |
Making fiberglass with a cold when it's rainy out = GOOD TIMES.
/ D8
// good evening
| 330 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:28:01am |
re: #326 BlueCanuck
I see them doing that...but what I see in downdings is that one will go down the line knocking your every post no matter what it is..I give ups to those who I agree with, or admire the comment..and usually downs who so disagree with what I say they downding me first
I wont down ding just because we are not agreeing..if everyone agreed then why come here to be another bobble head.
| 331 |
The Other Les Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:28:06am |
| 332 |
UncleRancher Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:28:41am |
re: #322 MandyManners
Good idea but, the kitchen is on the second floor, two floors down from his room. That'd take a lot of bacon grease. bbl
I can detect bacon frying from 3 blocks away.
| 333 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:29:01am |
re: #328 apachegunner
I feel for you on that one. You get some lizards that have been here for a shorter time then you and they seem to get more glory. It also seems that they will be wittier, funnier, and contribute a lot to the dialogue. Just the way it goes I guess. I am just happy being recognized by a few of the mainstays of the site. :)
| 334 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:30:09am |
re: #333 BlueCanuck
I feel for you on that one. You get some lizards that have been here for a shorter time then you and they seem to get more glory. It also seems that they will be wittier, funnier, and contribute a lot to the dialogue. Just the way it goes I guess. I am just happy being recognized by a few of the mainstays of the site. :)
Eh, and then you have people like me, who come here and post on a few threads for a month or so and then disappear for another month or two. It always feels weird when I start commenting again and I'm like, uhh, who are you supposed to be?
| 336 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:30:16am |
| 337 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:32:10am |
| 338 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:32:25am |
re: #328 apachegunner
speaking of the karma thing i don't believe mine works right, geeesh, how can it be so low after all these years. i think the big lizard has a hand in this :>(
Maybe you're one of the victims of the stealth downdinging to which Charles referred?
| 339 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:33:12am |
Good morning, Lizardia.
I am not making friends with my leg cast. It sucks having this thing on my foot, I can only take it off for a shower. It looks like it will be my new companion, as I travel into Braceland and then into Wheelchairland.
In less than a month, I am attending my son's wedding and THEN we are going to Israel where I had all kinds of walking activities planned.
| 340 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:33:17am |
re: #333 BlueCanuck
I feel for you on that one. You get some lizards that have been here for a shorter time then you and they seem to get more glory. It also seems that they will be wittier, funnier, and contribute a lot to the dialogue. Just the way it goes I guess. I am just happy being recognized by a few of the mainstays of the site. :)
yes, my conversation tends to be kinda vanilla in most cases and it's hard to stay with these lizard mental giants most of the time
| 341 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:33:24am |
re: #325 iceweasel
While we're acting all lovey-dovey here and not to open the subject again (unless we want to) but let me explain some of my frustration last week specifically. We were talking around each other. You were saying "I've read the bill and it doesn't call for a Single-Payer", which is true. We were then pointing out the parts of the bill that would inevitably lead to the privates going away and not able to compete which would leave... a single-payer, which is also true.
So, we have two true statements but a chasm of political and philosophical difference in between, you see? I will remain as civil as possible as we discuss this further, and I will not get personal.
| 342 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:34:20am |
re: #337 apachegunner
I gave you an upding...since you are one of the goodguys
| 343 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:34:39am |
re: #162 BatGuano
Tofu is not a proper ingredient in
cupcakes.anything. I'm sorry. I had to say it.
FTFY
| 344 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:34:47am |
re: #326 BlueCanuck
If you are active in an argument, or active posting. Usually it's up to you if you disagree with something. What was going on though were people that were registered but didn't contribute a damn thing to the discussion. If you are going to give it out, you must be willing to recieve it as well.
Well, I know of at least one person who almost never comments but is active in updinging and downdinging. He's not a sock (so far as I know), and he deals out both updings and downdings.
We have so many registered people who don't comment, and it's an extremely intimidating environment for new people, sometimes. I think the prohibition is on registered people who create sockpuppets for the sole purpose of going back and secretly downdinging people they don't like, or disagree with. (And probably updinging their 'friends' as well)
It's interesting-- a karma system is one of the ways for a net-community to be self-policing, in theory. It's one of the ways for a web-master to help ensure the community doesn't get taken over by the few.
I hope Charles does write a book on how to run a web community, as he mentioned he might. He's right that it is something you wind up learning by doing (in my own time managing a much smaller one I learned that) and I honestly can't think of anyone in the political blogosphere better qualified to do it.
| 345 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:35:17am |
"Thank God for Obama. He's looking out for us."
Obama's benefactor, destroyer of currencies, is helping Obama win re-election in 2012.
| 347 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:35:47am |
re: #342 quiet man
I gave you an upding...since you are one of the goodguys
awww, and I returned the favor. lets make that a habit.
| 348 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:36:28am |
re: #344 iceweasel
Managing an online community is like herding cats. And I've only played in the minor leagues. I would NOT want to have Charles's job, for sure.
| 349 |
UncleRancher Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:36:41am |
re: #339 Alouette
I feel for you. Went through that myself with a broken ankle. That was 18 months ago and it still barks at me when I over do.
| 350 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:36:45am |
| 353 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:38:08am |
re: #348 thedopefishlives
Managing an online community is like herding cats. And I've only played in the minor leagues. I would NOT want to have Charles's job, for sure.
| 354 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:38:19am |
re: #330 quiet man
Well, some trolls will rarely get a comment out of me. They will feel my down ding though. Easy to see those types though, they will have a stack of down dings usually.
| 355 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:39:18am |
re: #349 UncleRancher
I feel for you. Went through that myself with a broken ankle. That was 18 months ago and it still barks at me when I over do.
This all started with a broken ankle 7 years ago, which was never properly set. I didn't have insurance at the time so I didn't go to the ER, and self-treated with an Ace bandage.
| 356 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:39:47am |
re: #347 apachegunner
awww, and I returned the favor. lets make that a habit.
Karma whore. :)
/got a ding anyway. lol
| 357 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:40:10am |
re: #353 Cannadian Club Akbar
The guy with the lint roller had me in stitches.
| 358 |
UncleRancher Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:41:49am |
re: #355 Alouette
This all started with a broken ankle 7 years ago, which was never properly set. I didn't have insurance at the time so I didn't go to the ER, and self-treated with an Ace bandage.
OUCH!!! I was in the middle of a project plowing snow when I broke mine. Finished the job before I went to find medical treatment. Turns out that was a big mistake.
| 359 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:41:53am |
re: #344 iceweasel
Sometimes I fall in this category. I upding a lot, down ding rarely and comment even more rarely. My issue is I can find time to read a lot of posts, but usually can't make it to the end and feel like I know enough of what is being discussed to weigh in. So I bite my tongue a lot.
Really enjoy the reading though!
| 360 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:42:12am |
re: #354 BlueCanuck
Kinda brings certain parts of Time Enough for Love to mind...
Yes, I can see those that take a position they will not support being storm cloud dinged...then the mudslide hits and they are gone.
| 361 |
badger1970 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:43:00am |
re: #353 Cannadian Club Akbar
Super Bowl commercial, no?
I grew up with cats and now have a dog. Go figure.
| 362 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:43:07am |
re: #356 BlueCanuck
I gave you an upding for the term Karma Whore
| 363 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:43:11am |
re: #291 thedopefishlives
I think Charles has disposed of most of the riffraff that were causing the real problems.
Did he also take care of Frank-N-Furter?
| 364 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:43:31am |
re: #341 Spenser (with an S)
While we're acting all lovey-dovey here and not to open the subject again (unless we want to) but let me explain some of my frustration last week specifically. We were talking around each other. You were saying "I've read the bill and it doesn't call for a Single-Payer", which is true. We were then pointing out the parts of the bill that would inevitably lead to the privates going away and not able to compete which would leave... a single-payer, which is also true.
So, we have two true statements but a chasm of political and philosophical difference in between, you see? I will remain as civil as possible as we discuss this further, and I will not get personal.
The various proposals being considered aren't single payer.
While some people (like me) will say they think single payer is the best way to go, none of them are calling for single payer.
Nothing in any of the proposals will lead to single payer, much less 'inevitably'. The truth is, both sides of the aisle are opposed to single payer in practice, because they're beholden to the insurance companies.
I have tons of links on this if necessary, but I'm a bit weary of posting them over and over.
| 366 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:44:51am |
re: #300 MandyManners
At times, The Kid would drive Mother Teresa to drink.
As long as she didn't drive herself to drink.
Isn't it good that The Kid is a designated driver?
| 369 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:47:18am |
re: #364 iceweasel
I don't think a single payer system is a good idea. It's a restrictive system that usually affects the lower and middle income people. Just my opinion though.
| 370 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:47:58am |
re: #367 quiet man
I want to ride in mom tres's cadillac
I'll bet the Lord would buy her a Mercedes Benz, if she asked.
Sorry, Janis.
| 371 |
MikeAlv77 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:48:55am |
Morning all...
Was there some whacking but the Big Guy last night?
| 372 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:49:13am |
Personally, I do not want to forgert that "single payer" means the federal government...and why anyone has a drop of faith in the Federal government to meet the demands that should only be met by private companies is beyond me.
| 373 |
saberry0530 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:49:20am |
Single payer system is very bad. THink of it this way, only one software maker, Microsoft.
| 374 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:49:27am |
uh oh.
"THE POINT IS THAT IT WILL EVOLVE INTO A SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM”
-Rep. Susan Davis
| 375 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:49:50am |
| 376 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:49:52am |
re: #369 BlueCanuck
I don't think a single payer system is a good idea. It's a restrictive system that usually affects the lower and middle income people. Just my opinion though.
and would be as successful as the US Post Office.
| 377 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:50:03am |
re: #373 saberry0530
Single payer system is very bad. THink of it this way, only one software maker, Microsoft.
And your choice of OS may kill you.
| 378 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:50:10am |
re: #359 rwdflynavy
Sometimes I fall in this category. I upding a lot, down ding rarely and comment even more rarely. My issue is I can find time to read a lot of posts, but usually can't make it to the end and feel like I know enough of what is being discussed to weigh in. So I bite my tongue a lot.
Really enjoy the reading though!
Exactly, there are a lot of people registered here who just upding, occasionally downding, and only sometimes comment. They're not all sockpuppets or trolls by any means. (And this place has LOTS of regular readers who don't even have an account.)
When I finally regged here I did leap into the commenting fray pretty quickly-- but that was only because I already was pretty accustomed to political blogging, and I'd been reading here (but not the comments, especially) since at least 2004.
BTW, updinged you. You gave me a chance to add to your karma! :)
| 379 |
badger1970 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:50:11am |
re: #358 UncleRancher
It's one thing to get hurt and finish something most people like doing, but getting hurt and finishing something like snow removal? That took guts.
| 380 |
The Other Les Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:50:23am |
re: #335 taxfreekiller
"Mustache'o" Viet helo pilot would use the blades of his "grasshopper"
helo to cut us lz's. old piston engine helo, best dam helo flyer ever existed.
Saw a Bell 47 yesterday.
| 382 |
MikeAlv77 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:51:02am |
| 383 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:53:16am |
re: #369 BlueCanuck
I don't think a single payer system is a good idea. It's a restrictive system that usually affects the lower and middle income people. Just my opinion though.
Fair enough. The US isn't going to have a single payer system though. I'd totally say so if I thought this legislation was a stalking horse for it.
In reality, it's highly unlikely (at the moment) that the reform will even include a public option (which is the aspect people target as being a stealth way of bringing in single payer.)
| 384 |
The Other Les Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:54:30am |
re: #374 FrogMarch
uh oh.
"THE POINT IS THAT IT WILL EVOLVE INTO A SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM”
-Rep. Susan Davis
The point is that the Donks persist in demonstrating the fact that they are not competent to hold public office or any other position of authority by continuing to promote and enact policies that have been objectively proven to be destructive of human life and society. (Whew!)
| 385 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:54:55am |
re: #382 MikeAlv77
If they could invent a computer that does what I want...
Not what I type...
If your computer was that smart, it wouldn't need you anymore.
That never ends well. HAL 9000, Skynet, etc.
| 386 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:55:08am |
re: #383 iceweasel
re: #369 BlueCanuck
Fair enough. The US isn't going to have a single payer system though. I'd totally say so if I thought this legislation was a stalking horse for it.In reality, it's highly unlikely (at the moment) that the reform will even include a public option (which is the aspect people target as being a stealth way of bringing in single payer.)
That is only because the people do not like it and have said so..the democrats have to keep thier jobs while still fooling those who still support them
| 387 |
MikeAlv77 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:56:05am |
re: #385 JamesTKirk
If your computer was that smart, it wouldn't need you anymore.
That never ends well. HAL 9000, Skynet, etc.
Well... mine does speak to me.. but then again, so do all the voices in my head...
// not really..
| 388 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:56:32am |
Rush said that Obama is destroying the democrats with this crap..but there he is wrong as I see Pelosi and Reid just as culpable.
2010 will be interesting.
| 389 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:57:46am |
re: #385 JamesTKirk
If your computer was that smart, it wouldn't need you anymore.
That never ends well. HAL 9000, Skynet, etc.
On the other hand, that sort of intelligence could always come in handy at the end.
/and then there was light-
| 390 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:57:55am |
re: #383 iceweasel
The problem with giving governments more power is that they will take more power. See it all over the place. I don't trust the government to take care of my needs. In fact the government SHOULDN'T be taking care of my needs. They should be dealing with all the big stuff like dealing with other countries and trade. Once it starts micromanaging or moving in that direction it will continue in that direction.
/keep that nose out of the tent...
| 391 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:58:07am |
re: #389 laZardo
On the other hand, that sort of intelligence could always come in handy at the end.
/and then there was light-
Asimov, right?
| 392 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:58:37am |
re: #387 MikeAlv77
It wouldnt be so bad having a skynet type of hand held..idiotts could ask it questions and do what it says...
If programed by the care bears or Barbie and Skipper, maybe it would work
| 393 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:58:51am |
re: #385 JamesTKirk
If your computer was that smart, it wouldn't need you anymore.
That never ends well. HAL 9000, Skynet, etc.
I think the country could be ran better by a computer
| 394 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:58:59am |
re: #389 laZardo
Nice obscure sci-fi reference. Multivac? Is that you?
| 395 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:59:04am |
re: #374 FrogMarch
"And that would be a bad thing because..."
/and that's why they're called "useful" idiots.
| 396 |
right_wing2 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:59:09am |
re: #8 victor_yugo
"No man who aspires to the Presidency should ever be allowed to have it."
Maybe we should draft the President AND Congress. 1 term each. 4 years for the President. 5 years for the Senate. 3 years for the House.
| 397 |
UncleRancher Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:59:17am |
re: #379 badger1970
It's one thing to get hurt and finish something most people like doing, but getting hurt and finishing something like snow removal? That took guts.
In 20/20 hindsight I wouldn't quite classify it that way. It was more like "I think I'll just finish this up so I don't have to put all these heavy clothes back on later."
| 398 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:59:23am |
re: #386 quiet man
That is only because the people do not like it and have said so..the democrats have to keep thier jobs while still fooling those who still support them
False.
It's because the Democratic Party itself, much like the Republican Party, is beholden to insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies-- and their campaign contributions.
It's no surprise at all that the proposed reforms exclude single payer and that a public option is becoming increasingly less likely. Reminder: progressives like myself hate the Democratic Party only slightly less than we do the Republican Party.
I'm an independent, and resolutely non-partisan.
| 400 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:59:34am |
re: #183 Cannadian Club Akbar
I REALLY hope Hamilton gets the Coyotes.
The problem is, if Hamilton gets the Coyotes, then Toronto will want a real hockey team, too.
| 401 |
jill e Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:59:48am |
From Camille Paglia (who still loves Obama):
As a libertarian and refugee from the authoritarian Roman Catholic church of my youth, I simply do not understand the drift of my party toward a soulless collectivism. This is in fact what Sarah Palin hit on in her shocking image of a "death panel" under Obamacare that would make irrevocable decisions about the disabled and elderly. When I first saw that phrase, headlined on the Drudge Report, I burst out laughing. It seemed so over the top! But on reflection, I realized that Palin's shrewdly timed metaphor spoke directly to the electorate's unease with the prospect of shadowy, unelected government figures controlling our lives. A death panel not only has the power of life and death but is itself a symptom of a Kafkaesque brave new world where authority has become remote, arbitrary and spectral. And as in the Spanish Inquisition, dissidence is heresy, persecuted and punished.
| 402 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:59:53am |
re: #391 JamesTKirk
Yeah.
Although for some reason, I keep imagining Harland Ellison's AM talking in this sort of voice:
/there really was a cake...
| 403 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:00:01am |
re: #384 The Other Les
The point is that the Donks persist in demonstrating the fact that they are not competent to hold public office or any other position of authority by continuing to promote and enact policies that have been objectively proven to be destructive of human life and society. (Whew!)
AND - This entire Government Run Health Care debate is a waste of time because the Donks are desperate for a government take-over of health care and they will do and say any lie to get there. Single payer is the goal. "We may not get there right away"(-BHO) - but single payer is the goal. The rest of what pops out of their liar mouths is all bullshit.
| 404 |
saberry0530 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:00:51am |
I have a simple question, when in the course of history has a unified powerful central government ever ended well for the general populace?
| 405 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:01:46am |
re: #398 iceweasel
They are also "beholding" to seniors, blacks, unions, and the far left..so the insurance thjing doesnt really wash.
this is a pwer grab by leftest fringe democrats..that is why all of this is on the table now..if there had been no outcry, it would have passed as Nancy wrote it...abd woe be-ist America.
| 406 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:01:52am |
re: #393 apachegunner
I think the country could be ran better by a computer
Programmed by whom? The far-lefties at Google? Diebold, leading to endless moonbat conspiracy theories? Microsoft, leading to all sorts of errors and crashes?
OK, fine. I volunteer to program it.
| 407 |
right_wing2 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:02:06am |
| 408 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:02:07am |
re: #402 laZardo
Yeah.
Although for some reason, I keep imagining Harland Ellison's AM talking in this sort of voice:
[Video]/there really was a cake...
OH MY GOD, 20 million updings if I could not just for referencing Harlan Ellison, but also for referencing his best short story (imo) !!!
//geek girl rapture!
| 410 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:02:25am |
re: #200 MandyManners
Did anyone mention yesterday the way Hillary reacted when someone asked about what Bill thought?
That was special!
| 411 |
right_wing2 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:02:33am |
| 412 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:02:51am |
| 413 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:03:02am |
re: #398 iceweasel
False.
It's because the Democratic Party itself, much like the Republican Party, is beholden to insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies-- and their campaign contributions.It's no surprise at all that the proposed reforms exclude single payer and that a public option is becoming increasingly less likely. Reminder: progressives like myself hate the Democratic Party only slightly less than we do the Republican Party.
I'm an independent, and resolutely non-partisan.
just think if we could rid ourselves of lobbyists and establish tort reform. let the congresscritter's constituents lobby their representative by providing assistance, both dollar and volunteer work, with dollars and support.
| 415 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:04:07am |
re: #406 JamesTKirk
Programmed by whom? The far-lefties at Google? Diebold, leading to endless moonbat conspiracy theories? Microsoft, leading to all sorts of errors and crashes?
OK, fine. I volunteer to program it.
programmed by a computer
| 416 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:04:26am |
re: #404 saberry0530
I have a simple question, when in the course of history has a unified powerful central government ever ended well for the general populace?
I just don't want to be one of the 0.1% who end up a Reaver.
| 417 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:04:47am |
re: #413 apachegunner
just think if we could rid ourselves of lobbyists and establish tort reform. let the congresscritter's constituents lobby their representative by providing assistance, both dollar and volunteer work, with dollars and support.
Absolutely. It's completely idiotic that tort reform is also off the table. It absolutely needs to be there.
| 418 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:04:47am |
re: #413 apachegunner
just think if we could rid ourselves of lobbyists and establish tort reform. let the congresscritter's constituents lobby their representative by providing assistance, both dollar and volunteer work, with dollars and support.
Constituents? What are those? Are those the pesky people that keep interfering in my town halls and sending me nasty letters and making phone calls at 3:00 in the morning?
/Wait, you mean they keep me employed? Uh-oh...
| 419 |
saberry0530 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:05:13am |
re: #416 JamesTKirk
I just don't want to be one of the 0.1% who end up a Reaver.
Upding for the Firefly reference!
| 420 |
Flyers1974 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:05:15am |
re: #287 iceweasel
Well, SoS is kind of first in the firing line, enforcer, etc. If anything it requires someone willing to go out there and be in the trenches. Seems like a pretty thankless position, in many respects-- you get all of the attention and none of the real power, and the POTUS always has his ass covered; he or she can backtrack and claim the SoS 'misspoke'.
That's one reason why it seems pretty clear (to me) that this isn't a punishment or a marginalisation of Hillary-- she gets to have input to Obama personally (how much we don't know); it's a position you wouldn't give someone who wouldn't unquestioningly back you up (at least publicly)...really, Obama demonstrated that he was willing to hand her the knife and turn his back. This kind of defanged her, and her supporters.
I think it was a pretty damn smart move, over all. For a lot of reasons.
Good to see you too! :)
I'd also think that a SoS only has power if the POTUS gives him/her power. It doesn't make sense to me when people say a given person would make a good SoS - Ronald McDonald would be a good SoS if it is known he had the president's ear and is speaking on behalf of the president. On the other hand, Henry Kissenger would have been worthless if Nixon didn't back him up.
| 421 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:05:22am |
re: #412 JamesTKirk
I kept all my old Sci Fi..I have all of them..including every book written by Heinlein, Bradbury, and Norton..and Norton has a lot
| 422 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:06:15am |
re: #417 iceweasel
Absolutely. It's completely idiotic that tort reform is also off the table. It absolutely needs to be there.
Upding - a point of agreement.
| 423 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:06:20am |
| 424 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:06:31am |
re: #398 iceweasel
False.
It's because the Democratic Party itself, much like the Republican Party, is beholden to insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies-- and their campaign contributions.
Sorry to chuckle, but this made me think of Dwight on The Office.
Fact. I can run faster than 90% of snakes.
Fact. Bears eat beets.
| 425 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:07:02am |
re: #398 iceweasel
False.
It's because the Democratic Party itself, much like the Republican Party, is beholden to insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies-- and their campaign contributions.It's no surprise at all that the proposed reforms exclude single payer and that a public option is becoming increasingly less likely. Reminder: progressives like myself hate the Democratic Party only slightly less than we do the Republican Party.
I'm an independent, and resolutely non-partisan.
Is progressive a good word today?
Non-partisan means not a part of something. If you identify yourself as a progressive, then you identify with a part of a certain political ideology.
I have to agree with you, I don't like The Democrats or the Republicans either.
| 426 |
right_wing2 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:07:12am |
| 427 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:07:37am |
Unions and trial lawyers are in bed with the Democrat party.
Tort reform? Won't happen.
| 428 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:08:27am |
| 429 |
UncleRancher Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:09:25am |
Health care is 1/6 of the economy. It did not get that way because of health care itself. It got there by loading up the payment stream with parasites who take your money and your employer's money and dole it out to the actual health care providers who then have to load up their payroll with people to handle the paperwork. It got there by lawyers inserting themselves into the payment stream with medical malpractice lawsuits and insurance companies who charge each practitioner a couple hundred thousand dollars a year for "protection".
And now we want more of this? Count me out. Let's just go back to where we started.
When you hear the word "reform", run fast away from it. The outcome will not be good.
| 431 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:09:43am |
re: #427 FrogMarch
tort reform would be great.the government getting out of the state by state regulation of health care..priceless
| 432 |
jill e Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:10:44am |
re: #425 Walter L. Newton
Is progressive a good word today?
Non-partisan means not a part of something. If you identify yourself as a progressive, then you identify with a part of a certain political ideology.
I have to agree with you, I don't like The Democrats or the Republicans either.
The problem being that Democrats and Republicans alike have become pure politicians whose main goal is re-election.
| 433 |
rain of lead Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:10:50am |
yesterday the prez compaired the post office to ups and fed ex
which got me to thinking, what semi- gov orgs run at a loss?
the post office
amtrack
medicare
medicaid
freddi mac
fannie mae
any farm program
what others?
| 434 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:11:14am |
re: #427 FrogMarch
Don't lawsuits make up only about half a percent of spending?
/on a more serious note.
| 435 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:11:58am |
re: #434 laZardo
Don't lawsuits make up only about half a percent of spending?
/on a more serious note.
Frivolous lawsuits poison the system.
| 436 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:12:09am |
re: #383 iceweasel
Fair enough. The US isn't going to have a single payer system though. I'd totally say so if I thought this legislation was a stalking horse for it.
In reality, it's highly unlikely (at the moment) that the reform will even include a public option (which is the aspect people target as being a stealth way of bringing in single payer.)
I had a long talk a couple days ago with an American friend, a Democrat & fervent Obama supporter. He praised Obama, saying "he's smart enough to realize he can't bring in a full universal single-payer healthcare system, such as Canada has, all at once. So he has to go step-by-step. But don't worry, in time, we well have it!"
Now you can spin this current pitch from Obama anyway you want. But the fact is many Democrats want it, and Obama is on the record calling for a single payer system, in the past. This plan is a Cloward-Piven style strategy designed to bankrupt private medicare system. Then the People will demand the full deal.
| 437 |
Spider Mensch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:12:39am |
Sick of reading about the health bill? fan of Life magazine type photos? Bob Capa, Margaret Bourke White type photography? Check out this interesting site to browse..
[Link: iconicphotos.wordpress.com...]
it's only been active a few months, but contains alot of great photos from history..
WARNING, the owner has just updated with some very disturbing historic photos..but its an interesting site to browse and alot of inside information on some very famous photos.
| 438 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:12:41am |
re: #433 rain of lead
yesterday the prez compaired the post office to ups and fed ex
which got me to thinking, what semi- gov orgs run at a loss?the post office
amtrack
medicare
medicaid
freddi mac
fannie mae
any farm programwhat others?
what semi government agency runs so well it can be used as a reason to accept what Obama and his cronies are shoving down our throats as fast as they can??
| 439 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:12:43am |
re: #432 jill e
The problem being that Democrats and Republicans alike have become pure politicians whose main goal is re-election.
No kidding. If there was ever a group of people that have lost almost total regard for the rest of the population, it's the politicians that are "running" this country.
Can you say plutocracy and kleptocracy?
| 440 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:12:47am |
re: #425 Walter L. Newton
Non-partisan means not a part of something. If you identify yourself as a progressive, then you identify with a part of a certain political ideology.
Non-partisan means I don't belong to either party, and I'm perfectly willing to vote for people who, in my opinion, are the best candidate, regardless of their party.
| 441 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:13:09am |
re: #429 UncleRancher
Of course people don't really like real reformers either. We had two provincial premiers that were reformers. Klein from Alberta, and Harris in Ontario. The screaming from the unions and the populace was something to behold. Of course when the Liberals got back into power here in Ontario, they tried to undo much of the reforms. First thing on the block? Balanced budget legislation.
/welcome back deficit budgets and spending.
| 442 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:13:56am |
re: #440 iceweasel
re: #425 Walter L. Newton
Non-partisan means I don't belong to either party, and I'm perfectly willing to vote for people who, in my opinion, are the best candidate, regardless of their party.
Not me..I have learned never to trust the democrats.. The last 16 years has made this very clear to me.
| 443 |
MikeAlv77 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:14:52am |
re: #440 iceweasel
Non-partisan means I don't belong to either party, and I'm perfectly willing to vote for people who, in my opinion, are the best candidate, regardless of their party.
In all reality that the way everyone should vote. I know people who would vote Dem or Rep if the person was a serial killer because thats the way they always vote. Its a shame that some people just don't do that.
| 444 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:14:53am |
re: #436 Kenneth
I had a long talk a couple days ago with an American friend, a Democrat & fervent Obama supporter. He praised Obama, saying "he's smart enough to realize he can't bring in a full universal single-payer healthcare system, such as Canada has, all at once. So he has to go step-by-step. But don't worry, in time, we well have it!"
Now you can spin this current pitch from Obama anyway you want. But the fact is many Democrats want it, and Obama is on the record calling for a single payer system, in the past. This plan is a Cloward-Piven style strategy designed to bankrupt private medicare system. Then the People will demand the full deal.
The fact is, your friend who happens to be a Democrat and an Obama supporter is pretty clearly out of the loop in terms of what's actually happening.
| 445 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:15:05am |
re: #435 FrogMarch
If they are actually found frivolous, at which point they are almost reflexively thrown out...
| 446 |
rain of lead Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:15:36am |
re: #438 quiet man
what semi government agency runs so well it can be used as a reason to accept what Obama and his cronies are shoving down our throats as fast as they can??
none, I just wanted to see how big a list we could come up with to see
how badly the gov screws up anything it touches
| 447 |
Killian Bundy Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:16:06am |
A spokeswoman for St. Joseph’s Hospital of Atlanta said this afternoon that former U.S. senator and governor Zell Miller is improving after being admitted to the facility for a case of viral shingles.
/ouch
| 448 |
KenJen Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:16:10am |
Forget health care reform. the Rick Pitino scandal is the talk of the town in Louisville. Oh so tacky.
| 449 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:16:22am |
re: #440 iceweasel
Non-partisan means I don't belong to either party, and I'm perfectly willing to vote for people who, in my opinion, are the best candidate, regardless of their party.
Ok, fair point, and I agree. I myself vote issue, not party or person. I am registered unaffiliated.
| 450 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:16:40am |
Obama brings his "Vilify The Health Insurance Industry" Tour to CO today.
And to make a finer point - any Democrat would be doing this. If Hillary had won the election, she would be doing this too. This isn't about Obama. This is about fighting the progressives and their economic fascism.
| 451 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:16:53am |
re: #446 rain of lead
Which leads one to wonder how anyone could want them as the holders of their health care..no wonder the seniors are scared.
Sarah Palin was right in saying this is evil.
| 452 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:17:46am |
re: #442 quiet man
Not me..I have learned never to trust the democrats.. The last 16 years has made this very clear to me.
Don't trust any of them. If you think Democrats are the only part of the problem, then you have been fooled.
Please, if you don't know the terms, look up plutocracy and kleptocracy. If you do know those terms, then you already know the truth.
| 454 |
Desert Dog Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:17:58am |
re: #440 iceweasel
Non-partisan means I don't belong to either party, and I'm perfectly willing to vote for people who, in my opinion, are the best candidate, regardless of their party.
Just out of curiosity, who is the last Republican you voted for?
| 455 |
rain of lead Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:18:44am |
| 456 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:19:35am |
re: #452 Walter L. Newton
Oh, I think the republicans are as bad..worse in some ways..no elected republican is a hero to me..
but I will not vote for a democrat based on the last 16 years of paying attention. The current level of manure is a strong reason for continuing the practice.
| 457 |
MikeAlv77 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:19:42am |
re: #446 rain of lead
none, I just wanted to see how big a list we could come up with to see
how badly the gov screws up anything it touches
Govt never runs anything great cause they don't have to. Basic human function. They have no competition so have no reason to provide better service. Also, when people percieve it as "free health care" they will use it more. Simple supply/demand. Not "death panels" but they will decide how much care is available.
| 458 |
Desert Dog Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:19:44am |
re: #452 Walter L. Newton
Don't trust any of them. If you think Democrats are the only part of the problem, then you have been fooled.
Please, if you don't know the terms, look up plutocracy and kleptocracy. If you do know those terms, then you already know the truth.
There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle. ~Alexis de Tocqueville
| 459 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:19:57am |
re: #443 MikeAlv77
In all reality that the way everyone should vote. I know people who would vote Dem or Rep if the person was a serial killer because thats the way they always vote. Its a shame that some people just don't do that.
Upding and totally agree.
I have my issues with both parties, believe me, but I reserve most of my dislike for people who mindlessly vote for one party-- and I don't care which party it is.
I get a lot of nastiness here when I give my reasoned opinion about what the GOP needs to do now to regain a majority. People get snotty and say "Oh yeah, like you really care." In truth, as I have said many times, I REALLY dislike having only one party in charge of all branches of gov't-- no matter who that party is. And i don't like having essentially only one choice about who to vote for, because the other party has gone batshit insane.
Also, in many ways I see the right doing now what the left did for many years after 2000 -- descending into hysteria and backbiting and blaming everyone but themselves for losing elections.
It's worth noting the left didn't win any elections til they quit that.
| 460 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:20:49am |
re: #452 Walter L. Newton
That reminds me, got a piece of mail from my MP. Liberal incumbent. Very partisan, blaming the economy on the current Prime Minister. Going to have to read it and try to scan it for proper mocking.
| 461 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:21:01am |
re: #453 FrogMarch
Really. I can't find any cases where a "frivolous" lawsuit managed to get all the way through to a reward for the patient.
| 462 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:21:05am |
re: #452 Walter L. Newton
Don't trust any of them. If you think Democrats are the only part of the problem, then you have been fooled.
Please, if you don't know the terms, look up plutocracy and kleptocracy. If you do know those terms, then you already know the truth.
Walter, this is one area in which you and I are in fervent agreement.
| 463 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:21:40am |
re: #460 BlueCanuck
It doesnt have to be mindless...I do not vote mindlessly..tho I do not vote for any democrats and havn't since I was in the military
| 465 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:22:28am |
re: #457 MikeAlv77
"Or maybe because they do not have a reason to profit, they don't have to operate it like a corporation!"
/
| 466 |
Pullus Iulius Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:23:40am |
| 467 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:23:59am |
re: #454 Desert Dog
Just out of curiosity, who is the last Republican you voted for?
Americans don't need to disclose who they've voted for.
I've voted for several, albeit usually on the state, local, or micro-local level.
| 468 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:24:00am |
re: #460 BlueCanuck
Really? Harper was behind the US sub-prime mortgage swindle which triggered the international financial meltdown? Who knew he was that powerful?
| 469 |
Desert Dog Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:25:20am |
re: #467 iceweasel
Americans don't need to disclose who they've voted for.
I've voted for several, albeit usually on the state, local, or micro-local level.
The last Dem I voted for was Bill Clinton, but I really didn't vote for him, I voted against the Republicans for putting Bob Dole up as a candidate.
| 470 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:25:47am |
re: #467 iceweasel
I have voted for dems on the local level...but that is different..I do not see them lying to me or being in the pocket of Soros or the fringe left..
those kind do not get very far here in the dead center of the country
| 471 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:26:16am |
re: #461 laZardo
Really. I can't find any cases where a "frivolous" lawsuit managed to get all the way through to a reward for the patient.
LOL
| 472 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:26:25am |
re: #459 iceweasel
Also, in many ways I see the right doing now what the left did for many years after 2000 -- descending into hysteria and backbiting and blaming everyone but themselves for losing elections.
It's worth noting the left didn't win any elections til they quit that.
I would disagree that they ever stopped. The Dem primaries were very ugly and the craziness and shrillness of the left carried right on through even as they won. It was just their time and Obama captured the country's imagination (for some reason).
| 473 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:26:53am |
re: #468 Kenneth
Haven't read the pamphlet yet, will do that tonight. What do you expect from Liberals after all?
| 474 |
KenJen Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:26:58am |
re: #469 Desert Dog
The last Dem I voted for was Bill Clinton, but I really didn't vote for him, I voted against the Republicans for putting Bob Dole up as a candidate.
You voted for Bill only once I hope./
| 475 |
right_wing2 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:27:26am |
re: #428 quiet man
Firefly. Stargate(s). Farscape. All missed.
| 476 |
rain of lead Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:27:39am |
re: #466 Pullus Iulius
For a taste of real socialism, try the Bureau of Indian Affairs (on any reservation that doesn't have a casino, that is).
good one, forgot about them, that's why I started the list
| 477 |
MikeAlv77 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:27:47am |
re: #465 laZardo
"Or maybe because they do not have a reason to profit, they don't have to operate it like a corporation!"
/
Are you saying that earning a profit is immoral and therefore a non-profit business or government agency is better?
| 478 |
saylorfam Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:27:55am |
Camille Paglia, Pelosi must Go!
[Link: www.salon.com...]
| 480 |
Desert Dog Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:28:26am |
re: #474 KenJen
You voted for Bill only once I hope./
I voted for Bush in 1992. Bill is the only Dem I have voted for on a Presidential election. Bob Dole was a poor choice...even worse than McCain.
| 481 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:28:39am |
re: #478 saylorfam
I saw that...But she is the face of the far left..she wont go anywhere
/wishful thinking
| 482 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:29:21am |
I have never voted for a Democrat for President (other offices, yes, but never President).
That does not, however, mean that I have always voted for the Republican.
| 483 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:29:42am |
Interesting opinion piece, from Bob Herbert writing for Pravda (the NYT) if you can believe it.
You can put whatever kind of gloss you want on last week’s jobs numbers, but the truth is that while they may have been a bit better than most economists were expecting, they were still bad, bad, bad.Some 247,000 jobs were lost in July, a number that under ordinary circumstances would send a shudder through the country. It was the smallest monthly loss of jobs since last summer. And for that reason, it was seen as a hopeful sign. The official monthly unemployment rate ticked down from 9.5 percent to 9.4 percent.
But behind the official numbers is a scary story that illustrates the single biggest challenge facing the United States today. The American economy does not seem able to provide enough jobs — and nowhere near enough good jobs — to maintain the standard of living that most Americans have come to expect.
You know it's bad when one of the Messiah's leading attack shills says this.
Two issues that absolutely undermine any rosy assessment of last week’s employment report are the swelling ranks of the long-term unemployed and the crushing levels of joblessness among young Americans. More than five million workers — about a third of the unemployed — have been jobless for more than six months. That’s the highest number recorded since accurate records have been kept.
| 484 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:29:55am |
re: #461 laZardo
Really. I can't find any cases where a "frivolous" lawsuit managed to get all the way through to a reward for the patient.
Without a case to show right now, I can tell you that a neurosurgeon will pay $200k every year before they perform one surgery and obgyn's are similarly throttled. Plus, 25-40% of tests are merely to cover their asses, not to provide better care. Those are the costs we're talking about.
| 485 |
quiet man Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:30:12am |
re: #480 Desert Dog
I agree..I didnt like Dole, yet Clinton was a worse choice...McCain..lord that made me angry when it was him they chose.
I voted for Sarah Palin...not McCain
| 486 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:30:25am |
re: #471 FrogMarch
Or maybe they got through in a way that they weren't newsworthy? I'm not sure.
| 487 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:30:53am |
re: #468 Kenneth
Really? Harper was behind the US sub-prime mortgage swindle which triggered the international financial meltdown? Who knew he was that powerful?
He must sekritly be Jewish.
| 488 |
rain of lead Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:30:55am |
re: #433 rain of lead
yesterday the prez compaired the post office to ups and fed ex
which got me to thinking, what semi- gov orgs run at a loss?the post office
amtrack
medicare
medicaid
freddi mac
fannie mae
any farm programwhat others?
Bureau of Indian Affairs
| 490 |
MikeAlv77 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:32:49am |
| 491 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:32:50am |
re: #484 Spenser (with an S)
On the other hand, people of that caliber are some of, if not the highest-paid professionals in the United States. Wouldn't hospital management, the insurance company or the patient also pay a hefty share?
| 492 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:32:55am |
| 493 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:33:39am |
re: #490 MikeAlv77
No prob. While I do consider myself leaning liberal on quite a few things, I try not to get sucked into a mob. It's one of those things they don't "officially" teach you in school.
| 494 |
Desert Dog Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:33:46am |
re: #485 quiet man
I agree..I didnt like Dole, yet Clinton was a worse choice...McCain..lord that made me angry when it was him they chose.
I voted for Sarah Palin...not McCain
I really wanted Steve Forbes in 1996. I worked for him campaign. That guy is great. But, I think he will never get to that position. Clinton was a pragmatic President. Unlike the unbending ideologue we have in there now. Of course, Clinton's second term was mired in scandal and was ineffective. Bob Dole would not have done much better.
| 495 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:33:57am |
re: #424 Spenser (with an S)
Upding for the Dwight reference!
| 496 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:34:04am |
re: #469 Desert Dog
The last Dem I voted for was Bill Clinton, but I really didn't vote for him, I voted against the Republicans for putting Bob Dole up as a candidate.
That's one reason why I really want to see the GOP get a grip. I don't want to be forced into voting for the Dem candidate simply because he or she is "not the crazy person the GOP is running".
BTW, -- People see that allegedly, Santorum might be looking at a 2012 run?
| 497 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:34:38am |
And the following message is brought to you by "Obama, maybe you should vet yourself." Todays outright lie, from the mouth of Barry himself...
[]
President Obama today suggested that the health care reform legislation for which he’s pushing has been endorsed by the American Association of Retired Person.
“We have the AARP on board because they know this is a good deal for our seniors,” the president said.
At another point he said: “Well, first of all, another myth that we've been hearing about is this notion that somehow we're going to be cutting your Medicare benefits. We are not. AARP would not be endorsing a bill if it was undermining Medicare, okay?”
The problem?
The AARP hasn't endorsed any plan yet.
[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]
[]
Now, think about this, he said this at a meeting that was covered nationally. Millions of people heard these remarks. But, how many people will hear about the fact checking and the fact that he lied.
Tell a lie, make it big enough and people will accept it. It goes viral, and you can't stop it.
Outright lier.
| 498 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:34:59am |
This is just so confusing. In 2005 Obama went on record supporting a Sinle Payer. Democrats like Barney Frank & Congresswoman Jan Shankowsi
say that Obama Care is the way that we will segue to a Single Payer.
Hmmm
| 499 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:35:44am |
re: #483 3 wood
Never mind all that - we need health care "reform". Now.
Of course, health care reform will help unions - but it will eat away at the private sector and I suspect unemployment will worsen. No matter, we can always tax somebody, somewhere. Some vilified group.
| 500 |
albusteve Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:35:49am |
Lou Dobbs on the loose...
[Link: newsbusters.org...]
| 501 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:36:21am |
re: #487 Spare O'Lake
He must sekritly be Jewish.
In fact, there are people who claim Stephen Harper is just that:
From a blogger who describes himself as "Left-leaning, progressive snark from the general vicinity of Waterloo, Ontario."
Stephen Harper: Good little Jew boy.
And then there is this crazy conspiracy flavoured missive:
Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper Becomes Jewish
The traitorous scumbag Stephen Harper (a former Christian and member of the Globalist Bilderbergs) sells out Canada to the Israel lobby through his Chassidic Talmudic overlords, Chabad Lubavitch.
Feel the love.
| 502 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:37:25am |
| 503 |
MikeAlv77 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:37:41am |
re: #501 Kenneth
Feel the love.
He's a member of the Build-a-burger crew... yummy... great burgers..
| 504 |
realwest Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:38:12am |
Good morning y'all - from a warm (75 degrees going up to 87 degrees) cloudy and sticky Charlotte!
Mom and I are doing fine today but have a lot of chores to do, so I figured I'd come and hang out with y'all for awhile!
How is everyone doing today?
| 505 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:38:25am |
re: #482 JamesTKirk
I have never voted for a Democrat for President (other offices, yes, but never President).
That does not, however, mean that I have always voted for the Republican.
I voted for Gus Hall the first time I was eligible to vote but, it's been Republican ever since then.
| 506 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:38:42am |
| 507 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:38:57am |
re: #504 realwest
Good morning y'all - from a warm (75 degrees going up to 87 degrees) cloudy and sticky Charlotte!
Mom and I are doing fine today but have a lot of chores to do, so I figured I'd come and hang out with y'all for awhile!How is everyone doing today?
Keeps on ticking. Hi.
| 508 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:39:06am |
re: #495 rwdflynavy
Dwight Schrute: I come from a long line of fighters. My maternal grandfather was the toughest guy I ever knew. World War Two veteran killed twenty men and spent the rest of the war in an Allied prison camp. My father battled blood pressure and obesity all his life... Different kind of fight.
| 509 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:39:10am |
Good morning realwest. Things are a little calmer here today.
| 510 |
vxbush Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:39:29am |
Morning, everyone. I watched this video this morning and I now feel incredibly small. So I'd like to share the love.
The Hubble Ultra Deep Field:
| 511 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:39:43am |
re: #504 realwest
Good morning y'all - from a warm (75 degrees going up to 87 degrees) cloudy and sticky Charlotte!
Mom and I are doing fine today but have a lot of chores to do, so I figured I'd come and hang out with y'all for awhile!How is everyone doing today?
Morning {real}. Always nice to hug you in the morning.
| 512 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:40:02am |
re: #500 albusteve
Lou Dobbs on the loose...
[Link: newsbusters.org...]
"First, I want to share with you something that just, I mean shocks me," Dobbs said. "Over at MSNBC, Keith Olbermann is their resident moron over there. He knows nothing about politics, nothing about economics.
Pointing out that Olbermann is an idiot is a safe bet.
| 513 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:40:04am |
re: #499 FrogMarch
"Like the greedy rich that run the insurance companies?"
/one good reason I'm definitely against HR 3200 is excessive bureaucracy trying to get shit filtered down from federal to state/local. Something I learned from Philippine politics. q;
| 514 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:40:10am |
re: #504 realwest
Good morning, my friend. I hope you are doing fine today.
| 515 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:40:13am |
re: #497 Walter L. Newton
Now, think about this, he said this at a meeting that was covered nationally. Millions of people heard these remarks. But, how many people will hear about the fact checking and the fact that he lied.
Lizards and others who can fact-check his ass.
| 516 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:40:20am |
re: #506 Kenneth
Actually, I know of one very profitable gov't operation:
The LCBO, which is the provincial monopoly for all liquor sales in Ontario & a huge cash-cow for the gov't.
If the US government had whores for sale, they would do wonderful business. Wait, those jerks in Washington are whores for sale. Never mind.
| 517 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:40:25am |
re: #497 Walter L. Newton
Do you remember when BHO was in Peoria selling his bail out at Caterpillar?
He said that Cat CEO "Jim" said that this would enable him to begin calling laid off workers back.
The problem is that "Jim " denied that & said that the layoffs would continue.
Apparently Obama just made it up.
| 518 |
saylorfam Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:40:26am |
re: #505 MandyManners
I voted for Harold Stassen, liked the name Harold. Voted either R or Independant.
| 519 |
MikeAlv77 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:40:48am |
re: #506 Kenneth
Actually, I know of one very profitable gov't operation:
The LCBO, which is the provincial monopoly for all liquor sales in Ontario & a huge cash-cow for the gov't.
here in PA it makes lots of money since only the state board can operate liquor stores. Only one problem. Without competition they don't have great prices and the union won't let them privatise it. Most of us get our stuff in Maryland, New Jersey or Delaware
| 520 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:41:11am |
re: #506 Kenneth
Actually, I know of one very profitable gov't operation:
The LCBO, which is the provincial monopoly for all liquor sales in Ontario & a huge cash-cow for the gov't.
Don't forget The Beer Store, and OLG.
| 521 |
realwest Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:41:13am |
re: #502 MandyManners
Hey Mandy! THANKS A LOT FOR THAT!! Mark Knopfler is one of my 5 favorite guitarists in the world!
Thanks again!
| 522 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:41:19am |
| 523 |
right_wing2 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:41:38am |
re: #517 opnion
Bush MADE him say the layoffs would continue. If it were really up to Jim, they'd be hiring.
//
| 524 |
albusteve Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:41:58am |
"not representative of America"...these people just don't get it and continue to dump on the voters
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
| 525 |
Flyers1974 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:42:03am |
re: #458 Desert Dog
There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle. ~Alexis de Tocqueville
I think people sometimes judge politicians a bit harshly, regardless of party, considering the circumstances. For example, once you get to a certain level, anything you say, even in jest, is going to be micro-analyzed, possibly distorted or taken out of context. On the other hand, if you combat this by never speaking off the cuff, you seem artificial, robotic, behaving like a typical politician. I'd also say that being principled is an impossible task if "principled" means in part, saying what you believe. I'd bet close to 100% of us would be unelectable if we said what we really thought on every issue.
| 526 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:42:23am |
re: #502 MandyManners
Have you heard any Mark Knopfler and Emmylou Harris duet stuff? Very different from Dire Straits but great stuff.
| 527 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:42:23am |
re: #509 BlueCanuck
Good morning realwest. Things are a little calmer here today.
Sez who?
*shoves BC to the floor and delivers atomic wedgie*
| 528 |
jdog29 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:42:24am |
Just say re: #500 albusteve
Lou Dobbs on the loose...
[Link: newsbusters.org...]
Just say "Lou Dobbs" putting in the "on the loose" part is just needless repetition. you know like saying Rush Limbaugh comes unhinged or James Carville go nucular.
| 529 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:42:32am |
re: #504 realwest
Pretty well. My colds are back, making it about 3 months since I've actually been well (got rid of my last colds only to get a rather nasty case of diarrhea. FUN TIMES!)
The good part being that at least you can pick up some decent colds medication/pills for about 20c each here.
| 530 |
realwest Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:42:48am |
re: #507 Walter L. Newton
Hi Walter good to see you out here this morning with your pithy comments!
| 531 |
vxbush Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:42:57am |
re: #517 opnion
Do you remember when BHO was in Peoria selling his bail out at Caterpillar?
He said that Cat CEO "Jim" said that this would enable him to begin calling laid off workers back.
The problem is that "Jim " denied that & said that the layoffs would continue.
Apparently Obama just made it up.
And even the local TV stations near Peoria covered Obama's statement. It was only a day or two later that they then were forced to cover the Caterpillar president.
| 532 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:43:02am |
re: #515 MandyManners
Lizards and others who can fact-check his ass.
Understood, us here, we know better. But there will be millions of Americans which will simply believe that AARP supports this proposal.
Granted, they probably will, at some point. But Barry is trying to squelch all this blowback as fast as he can, so lying certainly helps him out, even if he's called on it.
It's a numbers game, that's all that matters. And when it comes to reaching the masses, the White House has all the advantage.
| 533 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:43:03am |
re: #523 right_wing2
Bush MADE him say the layoffs would continue. If it were really up to Jim, they'd be hiring.
//
It was the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Jim felt intimidated & had to throw Barry under the bus.
| 534 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:43:09am |
Have a brief clip of the rugged Jeju Island shore, taken on my recent trip there. Oddly soothing...
| 535 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:43:39am |
re: #519 MikeAlv77
here in PA it makes lots of money since only the state board can operate liquor stores. Only one problem. Without competition they don't have great prices and the union won't let them privatise it. Most of us get our stuff in Maryland, New Jersey or Delaware
I have fond memories of my Dad taking us on a nice drive to Delaware to get our tax free booze.
| 536 |
realwest Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:43:51am |
re: #509 BlueCanuck
Hi Blue, well even semi-pro's need some time off, ya know?
But I gotta feeling that right after I leave this thread, things are gonna heat up.
| 537 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:44:04am |
re: #516 Walter L. Newton
To paraphrase Mark Twain...
If the US government had whores for sale... but I repeat myself.
| 538 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:44:26am |
re: #531 vxbush
And even the local TV stations near Peoria covered Obama's statement. It was only a day or two later that they then were forced to cover the Caterpillar president.
Yup, manage the message.
| 539 |
vxbush Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:44:35am |
Gah...why is it already time for work? Later...I'll try to keep lurking.
| 540 |
realwest Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:44:36am |
re: #511 midwestgak
Good morning {gak} always nice to hug you too, morning, noon or nightime!
| 541 |
MikeAlv77 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:44:37am |
re: #535 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
I have fond memories of my Dad taking us on a nice drive to Delaware to get our tax free booze.
I can truly say I am a bootlegger!!!
| 542 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:44:44am |
re: #510 vxbush
wow, just wow. Morning everybody. Hey vx, the video said that in some cases galaxies are moving away from one another faster than the speed of light. I don't think that is possible.
| 543 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:44:47am |
re: #527 MandyManners
Sez who?
*shoves BC to the floor and delivers atomic wedgie*
Nice to see someone else get attacked. Mandy must have missed my comments upthread...
| 544 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:45:11am |
re: #532 Walter L. Newton
...and if we had a media worth two shits - they would be calling him on it.
If Bush had uttered a lie of such magnitude, it would be headlined all over the place.
| 545 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:45:26am |
re: #497 Walter L. Newton
And the following message is brought to you by "Obama, maybe you should vet yourself." Todays outright lie, from the mouth of Barry himself...
[]
President Obama today suggested that the health care reform legislation for which he’s pushing has been endorsed by the American Association of Retired Person.“We have the AARP on board because they know this is a good deal for our seniors,” the president said.
At another point he said: “Well, first of all, another myth that we've been hearing about is this notion that somehow we're going to be cutting your Medicare benefits. We are not. AARP would not be endorsing a bill if it was undermining Medicare, okay?”
The problem?
The AARP hasn't endorsed any plan yet.
[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]
[]Now, think about this, he said this at a meeting that was covered nationally. Millions of people heard these remarks. But, how many people will hear about the fact checking and the fact that he lied.
Tell a lie, make it big enough and people will accept it. It goes viral, and you can't stop it.
Outright lier.
Semitics, the AARP is endorsing plans to reform health care, just not any particular bill yet. The leader of the AARP, had just been on Fox the night before defending Obama's reform attempt. It was not a lie, but the AARP has to appear non-partison.
| 546 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:45:36am |
re: #527 MandyManners
Sez who?
*shoves BC to the floor and delivers atomic wedgie*
Yeeeooouuuch!!!
/*sigh* always picked upon...
| 547 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:46:09am |
re: #527 MandyManners
Sez who?
*shoves BC to the floor and delivers atomic wedgie*
Welcome to LGF: come for the politics, stay for the hardcore femdom action!
| 548 |
realwest Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:46:18am |
re: #514 Kenneth
Hey Kenneth, yes, I'm doing ok, thanks, just got a zillion chores to do (well a zillion for me; for a normal person, probably only 10 or so! LOL!). How are you today?
| 549 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:47:11am |
re: #545 avanti
Semitics, the AARP is endorsing plans to reform health care, just not any particular bill yet.
It always comes back to the Jooos, doesn't it?
///
| 550 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:48:05am |
re: #549 Spenser (with an S)
It always comes back to the Jooos, doesn't it?
///
My spell checker is pro Jewish, and I'm not awake yet.
| 551 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:48:05am |
re: #516 Walter L. Newton
If the US government had whores for sale, they would do wonderful business. Wait, those jerks in Washington are whores for sale. Never mind.
To paraphrase Ronald Reagan:
Politics is the second oldest profession and it bears a great resemblence to the oldest profession.
| 552 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:48:24am |
re: #534 The Sanity Inspector
I found this old CD of "Nostalgic Melodies of Japan" on my dad's shelf and am actually playing it now. I know it's a bit of a culture clash, but...whoa.
| 553 |
albusteve Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:48:32am |
re: #545 avanti
Semitics, the AARP is endorsing plans to reform health care, just not any particular bill yet. The leader of the AARP, had just been on Fox the night before defending Obama's reform attempt. It was not a lie, but the AARP has to appear non-partison.
he's deceiving the voters...call it what you will, and with enough apologists he will get away with it once again...thanks for adding to the muck
| 554 |
Flyers1974 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:48:46am |
re: #496 iceweasel
Speaking of Santorum, how'd he ever get elected in the first place in PA? I seem to recall he beat a super-liberal incumbant, maybe that's the answer.
| 555 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:48:52am |
re: #545 avanti
Semitics, the AARP is endorsing plans to reform health care, just not any particular bill yet. The leader of the AARP, had just been on Fox the night before defending Obama's reform attempt. It was not a lie, but the AARP has to appear non-partison.
It was a lie. AARP just sent out an email last week (I got one) that refused to endorse anything at this point.
You can split hairs if you want, I prefer to deal with facts. Fact, they have not endorsed anything. Fact, Barry said they did...
"...We are not. AARP would not be endorsing a bill if it was undermining Medicare, okay?”
If you are happy with shading the truth, have fun, but you are not going to get me to let things like this slide.
| 557 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:49:02am |
| 558 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:49:18am |
re: #545 avanti
Semitics, the AARP is endorsing plans to reform health care, just not any particular bill yet. The leader of the AARP, had just been on Fox the night before defending Obama's reform attempt. It was not a lie, but the AARP has to appear non-partison.
Wait a minute, if he does not have the endorsement he does not
have the endorsement , period.
| 559 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:50:05am |
re: #549 Spenser (with an S)
It always comes back to the Jooos, doesn't it?
///
I hate anti-Semantics.
| 560 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:50:35am |
re: #548 realwest
Morning Real, I see that you & mom are doing well. Good news.
| 561 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:50:44am |
re: #472 Spenser (with an S)
I would disagree that they ever stopped. The Dem primaries were very ugly and the craziness and shrillness of the left carried right on through even as they won. It was just their time and Obama captured the country's imagination (for some reason).
I'm aware that the right likes to tell itself that it's somehow a fluke that the Dems now have control of all branches of government, and that "teh left" is just crazy and shrill and it's a total mystery why Obama won.
That's more or less what the left consoled itself with for years: "People who voted for Bush are stupid!"
I'm also aware that there are those on the right who want to justify bad behaviour by a few with something like "Well the left did it too!"
Doesn't wash, for me. If you thought it was wrong when 'teh left' did it, you have to condemn it from your own side.
Similarly, if you hated Bush for certain policies, but have no problem when Obama implements the same ones, you're also a hypocrite.
I don't like these games, no matter which 'side' plays them.
| 562 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:50:47am |
re: #499 FrogMarch
Of course, health care reform will help unions - but it will eat away at the private sector and I suspect unemployment will worsen. No matter, we can always tax somebody, somewhere. Some vilified group.
Well, in page 150 of HR 3200 you find this about small businesses:
8 (b) SPECIAL RULES FOR SMALL EMPLOYERS.—
9 (1) IN GENERAL.—In the case of any employer
10 who is a small employer for any calendar year, sub
11 section (a) shall be applied by substituting the appli
12 cable percentage determined in accordance with the
13 following table for ‘‘8 percent’’:
If the annual payroll of such employer for
the preceding calendar year:
The applicable
percentage is:
Does not exceed $250,000 ... 0 percent
Exceeds $250,000, but does not exceed $300,000 2 percent
Exceeds $300,000, but does not exceed $350,000 4 percent
Exceeds $350,000, but does not exceed $400,000 6 percent
This is the penalty in liue of coverage. The message here is to keep your payroll below $250,000.
| 563 |
realwest Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:50:50am |
re: #524 albusteve
Good morning albusteve! For once I agree with him.
From your link: "It's more than health care," said Specter, 79, who earlier this year left the Republican Party and became a Democrat. "I think there is a mood in America of anger with so many people unemployed, with so much bickering in Washington ... with the fear of losing their health care. It all boils over."
Yep. Americans generally speaking don't like NOT being able to find work, don't like people RUSHING to get legislation passed that we all KNOW our congresscitters haven't read and then see the RUSHED legislation as faulty as can be and not accomplishing what it is supposed to accomplish.
And we HATE being talked down to.
| 565 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:51:07am |
re: #545 avanti
Semitics, the AARP is endorsing plans to reform health care, just not any particular bill yet. The leader of the AARP, had just been on Fox the night before defending Obama's reform attempt. It was not a lie, but the AARP has to appear non-partison.
And on another note, it's interesting how you are so eager to depend someone who you say "...the AARP has to appear non-partison."
You almost sound proud of the AARP, proud of the fact that they are pretending to be non-partisan, happy to see them lie.
| 566 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:51:20am |
re: #532 Walter L. Newton
Understood, us here, we know better. But there will be millions of Americans which will simply believe that AARP supports this proposal.
Granted, they probably will, at some point. But Barry is trying to squelch all this blowback as fast as he can, so lying certainly helps him out, even if he's called on it.
It's a numbers game, that's all that matters. And when it comes to reaching the masses, the White House has all the advantage.
I bet that many members of AARP know the truth or, can find out very easily.
Did you see Pin-Head Gibbs blame cable news, i.e., Fox, for the lessening of support for the socialization of medicine?
| 567 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:51:49am |
re: #548 realwest
I'm doing well, thanks. Got a long list of chores, too. Best get too it.
later folks...
| 568 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:52:57am |
re: #546 BlueCanuck
Yeeeooouuuch!!!
/*sigh* always picked upon...
Aw, you know I love you.
*headlock and noogies*
| 569 |
vxbush Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:53:01am |
re: #542 turn
wow, just wow. Morning everybody. Hey vx, the video said that in some cases galaxies are moving away from one another faster than the speed of light. I don't think that is possible.
Yes, I wondered about that; my understanding was that based on the relativity equations, the speed of light was the fastest possible speed attainable in our universe.
| 570 |
realwest Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:53:01am |
re: #529 laZardo
Sorry to hear about your medical woes my friend, but at least you have nationized healthcare and should be able to see a doctor by, what, next spring?!?
| 571 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:53:08am |
re: #547 Kenneth
Welcome to LGF: come for the politics, stay for the hardcore femdom action!
On that note, Happy Hump Day!
/ 8D
| 572 |
Desert Dog Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:53:34am |
re: #562 3 wood
This is the penalty in liue of coverage. The message here is to keep your payroll below $250,000.
That sounds like a great instrument to grow the economy! Oh well, those evil rich people got all that money by walking on the bones of the little people anyway, right?
/
| 573 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:54:04am |
re: #562 3 wood
This is the penalty in liue of coverage. The message here is to keep your payroll below $250,000.
There are penalties for both employers and ordinary citizens who don't opt into some health care. See Sec. 401 for the tax YOU will be required to pay if you don't want health coverage. And don't think about leaving the country, as long as you are a citizen, the IRS will come after you for the penatly.
| 574 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:54:05am |
re: #547 Kenneth
Welcome to LGF: come for the politics, stay for the hardcore femdom action!
Woo woo
*pokes fingers into eyes*
| 575 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:54:17am |
re: #570 realwest
I just realized that I'm not aware if the Philippines has a nationalized health care system. Heh.
Thankfully the cold meds I mentioned are over-the-counter...
| 576 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:54:37am |
re: #545 avanti
Semitics, the AARP is endorsing plans to reform health care, just not any particular bill yet.
Why are you blaming the Jews?
/
| 577 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:56:01am |
re: #554 Flyers1974
Speaking of Santorum, how'd he ever get elected in the first place in PA? I seem to recall he beat a super-liberal incumbant, maybe that's the answer.
I've always wondered that. I wasn't paying attention at the time.
I will say I've spent some time in PA, and big chunks of that state are pretty...well, let's say time-warpish. And not in the good way.
(BTW, PA is a beautiful state and I have many good things to say about the more well-travelled parts of it. )
| 578 |
albusteve Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:56:04am |
re: #563 realwest
Good morning albusteve! For once I agree with him.
From your link: "It's more than health care," said Specter, 79, who earlier this year left the Republican Party and became a Democrat. "I think there is a mood in America of anger with so many people unemployed, with so much bickering in Washington ... with the fear of losing their health care. It all boils over."
Yep. Americans generally speaking don't like NOT being able to find work, don't like people RUSHING to get legislation passed that we all KNOW our congresscitters haven't read and then see the RUSHED legislation as faulty as can be and not accomplishing what it is supposed to accomplish.
And we HATE being talked down to.
"not representing America"...big mistake, those are citizens whether they are rude and disruptive or not...that kind of language is no better than the opposition he's criticizing imo
| 579 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:56:25am |
re: #566 MandyManners
I bet that many members of AARP know the truth or, can find out very easily.
Did you see Pin-Head Gibbs blame cable news, i.e., Fox, for the lessening of support for the socialization of medicine?
Really, now just right here, on this overnight open thread, up thread, we have been told that the protesting has NOTHING to do with the blowback that the Democrats are getting.
It's big pharm, that's the ticket. Hmmm... now, who is it? The bottom line, there is a concerted effort by Barry and his team to shut down any discussion on this.
Is Gibbs lying, or are we getting a another spin on this thread?
Do they think we don't pay attention?
| 580 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:56:27am |
re: #558 opnion
Wait a minute, if he does not have the endorsement he does not
have the endorsement , period.
I think he pretty much had it publicly until the town halls scared the shit out of some seniors and they started tearing up their cards. Go back a week or two, and you'll find the AARP was much more vocal in their support. No question they still support a plan, though no particular bill yet. If it pleases you to think the AARP endorsement is a lie, I don't mind, since it's just a matter of spin.
| 581 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:56:29am |
re: #569 vxbush
Yes, I wondered about that; my understanding was that based on the relativity equations, the speed of light was the fastest possible speed attainable in our universe.
Yeah, I think that was wrong. I was just text messaging turnspawn2 who is up at Lake Tahoe with friends. I said "Who the hell tpeed our house last night. Man they did a #." You should see it, what a friggin mess. ha, I had to leave to go to work so I rousted the turnwife and told her she would have to clean it up.
| 582 |
LoquaciousLady Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:56:32am |
re: #510 vxbush
Morning, everyone. I watched this video this morning and I now feel incredibly small. So I'd like to share the love.
The Hubble Ultra Deep Field:
Thanks that was awesome (literally)!
| 583 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:56:50am |
re: #569 vxbush
Yes, I wondered about that; my understanding was that based on the relativity equations, the speed of light was the fastest possible speed attainable in our universe.
Speed is relative in space. When you're told how fast something is traveling, you have to ask "in relation to what?"
Say one galaxy is moving in one direction at .9c, and the other is moving in the opposite direction at .9c. To someone standing in either galaxy, it would appear that the other galaxy was moving away at 1.8c.
| 584 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:57:10am |
re: #573 Walter L. Newton
There are penalties for both employers and ordinary citizens who don't opt into some health care. See Sec. 401 for the tax YOU will be required to pay if you don't want health coverage. And don't think about leaving the country, as long as you are a citizen, the IRS will come after you for the penatly.
Waitjustacotton-pickingminute.
The IRS will come after a citizen who goes to another country for health care?
| 585 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:57:15am |
re: #561 iceweasel
I agree that two wrongs don't make a right. I was just disagreeing with your statement that the Dems stopped being nasty therefore they won the election. I know Obama kicked McCain's tail and convinced more people to vote for him.
| 586 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:57:44am |
re: #562 3 wood
This is the penalty in liue of coverage. The message here is to keep your payroll below $250,000.
"Small Employers." Are they considered small based on payroll or number of employees?
| 587 |
right_wing2 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:57:51am |
re: #563 realwest
Good morning albusteve! For once I agree with him.
From your link: "It's more than health care," said Specter, 79, who earlier this year left the Republican Party and became a Democrat. "I think there is a mood in America of anger with so many people unemployed, with so much bickering in Washington ... with the fear of losing their health care. It all boils over."
Yep. Americans generally speaking don't like NOT being able to find work, don't like people RUSHING to get legislation passed that we all KNOW our congresscitters haven't read and then see the RUSHED legislation as faulty as can be and not accomplishing what it is supposed to accomplish.
And we HATE being talked down to.
It'll never happen, but I'd love to see ALL legislation over a certain magnitude posted online for 7 or 14 days so 'we the people' have a clearer understanding of what's going on.
| 588 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:57:54am |
re: #573 Walter L. Newton
There are penalties for both employers and ordinary citizens who don't opt into some health care. See Sec. 401 for the tax YOU will be required to pay if you don't want health coverage. And don't think about leaving the country, as long as you are a citizen, the IRS will come after you for the penatly.
Agreed.
The more I analyze this proposal, the more concerned I get.
| 589 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:58:00am |
re: #577 iceweasel
I will say I've spent some time in PA, and big chunks of that state are pretty...well, let's say time-warpish. And not in the good way.
A jump to the left, or a step to the right?
| 590 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:58:09am |
re: #579 Walter L. Newton
Really, now just right here, on this overnight open thread, up thread, we have been told that the protesting has NOTHING to do with the blowback that the Democrats are getting.
It's big pharm, that's the ticket. Hmmm... now, who is it? The bottom line, there is a concerted effort by Barry and his team to shut down any discussion on this.
Is Gibbs lying, or are we getting a another spin on this thread?
Do they think we don't pay attention?
I think they think we're stupid.
| 591 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:58:13am |
re: #562 3 wood
This is the penalty in liue of coverage. The message here is to keep your payroll below $250,000.
The message is control.
And those above $250,000? Dump the insurance and go for the government plan?
| 592 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:58:35am |
re: #573 Walter L. Newton
Good thing I had HR 3200 in another tab...
`(a) Tax Imposed- In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of--
(d) Acceptable Coverage Requirement-
(G) OTHER COVERAGE- Such other health benefits coverage as the Secretary, in coordination with the Health Choices Commissioner, recognizes for purposes of this subsection.
HMMM.
//also, brb, getting a glass of water
| 593 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:59:14am |
| 594 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:59:20am |
re: #584 MandyManners
Waitjustacotton-pickingminute.
The IRS will come after a citizen who goes to another country for health care?
No, if you are a citizen, and living or working in another country, you have to still have coverage (under this proposal) or else they will levy the 2.5 percent tax on your gross adjusted income.
| 595 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:59:37am |
re: #585 Spenser (with an S)
I agree that two wrongs don't make a right. I was just disagreeing with your statement that the Dems stopped being nasty therefore they won the election. I know Obama kicked McCain's tail and convinced more people to vote for him.
McCain convinced people to vote for Obama.
| 596 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 6:59:40am |
re: #562 3 wood
3wood, I assume you saw the story upthread about Hugo Chavez trying to ban golf?
| 597 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:00:20am |
re: #583 JamesTKirk
Speed is relative in space. When you're told how fast something is traveling, you have to ask "in relation to what?"
Say one galaxy is moving in one direction at .9c, and the other is moving in the opposite direction at .9c. To someone standing in either galaxy, it would appear that the other galaxy was moving away at 1.8c.
They were talking about red shift measurements, not apparent motion. It was either incorrrect or at best misleading.
| 598 |
Desert Dog Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:00:32am |
re: #591 FrogMarch
The message is control.
And those above $250,000? Dump the insurance and go for the government plan?
ding, ding - we have a winner...But, remember, if you like your insurance, you can keep it...YA RIGHT. This is heading towards a single payer model, regardless of the "lie du jour" El Presidente is spouting off.
| 599 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:00:38am |
re: #588 3 wood
Agreed.
The more I analyze this proposal, the more concerned I get.
Could I please have your e-mail address, so I can report you to flag@whitehouse.gov. Thank you.
| 600 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:00:40am |
re: #594 Walter L. Newton
No, if you are a citizen, and living or working in another country, you have to still have coverage (under this proposal) or else they will levy the 2.5 percent tax on your gross adjusted income.
But Obama just said yesterday in New Hampshire that the Government plan will be self-sustaining.
hmmm.
| 601 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:00:54am |
re: #562 3 wood
This is the penalty in liue of coverage. The message here is to keep your payroll below $250,000.
That's one part that will likely be amended to protect larger businesses. There is talk of moving it to a $500,000 payroll, which would leave most small businesses out. I had 7 working for me, and my payroll was under 250K for example.
| 602 |
realwest Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:00:54am |
re: #532 Walter L. Newton
Hey Walter - don't count on AARP endorsing whatever the health national health care plan comes out of D.C. - there was a meeting of AARP regional managers and members during which meeting the members shouted at the dissembling AARP "manager" some pretty bad things like "HEY- you work for US remember - what are you doing supporting Obama's election with OUR money?" at which point, showing her true Obama colors, the AARP Manager unplugged the microphones and left in a huff. How dare the members question their leadership?!? Now that's a mentality that would support Obama, but the rage of the AARP members in their belief (correct as it was) that AARP ought not to endorse Presidential candidates has been spreading. Mom and me got a letter from a group of self-describe "disgruntled AARP members" asking us to join them in getting new leadership just yesterday!
| 603 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:01:25am |
re: #597 turn
They were talking about red shift measurements, not apparent motion. It was either incorrrect or at best misleading.
Red shift also depends upon the relative position and velocity of the observer.
| 604 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:02:24am |
re: #586 midwestgak
"Small Employers." Are they considered small based on payroll or number of employees?
also on page 150
14 (2) SMALL EMPLOYER.—For purposes of this
15 subsection, the term ‘‘small employer’’ means any
16 employer for any calendar year if the annual payroll
17 of such employer for the preceding calendar year
18 does not exceed $400,000.
| 605 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:02:31am |
re: #601 avanti
That's one part that will likely be amended to protect larger businesses. There is talk of moving it to a $500,000 payroll, which would leave most small businesses out. I had 7 working for me, and my payroll was under 250K for example.
Ah, good. So our masters may allow us to be slightly more successful before penalizing us for it. Well, that's a load off my mind.
| 606 |
realwest Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:02:50am |
re: #537 Kenneth
Hey Kenneth - to quote Mark Twain "It can probably be shown with facts and figures, that there is no such thing as a NATIVE American criminal class. Except, of course, for Congress!"
| 607 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:03:03am |
re: #580 avanti
I think he pretty much had it publicly until the town halls scared the shit out of some seniors and they started tearing up their cards. Go back a week or two, and you'll find the AARP was much more vocal in their support. No question they still support a plan, though no particular bill yet. If it pleases you to think the AARP endorsement is a lie, I don't mind, since it's just a matter of spin.
You are avoiding what I said. Let's review, he does not & never has had
an endorsement by AARP. He may well get it, but he lied when he said he had it.
It is like when he said "Jim" was going to take stimulus money & rehire at Caterpillar. Problem is that "Jim" never said that.
You seem upset that the more people learn about this dog of a proposal , the more the opposition grows.
| 608 |
Flyers1974 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:03:03am |
re: #505 MandyManners
I voted for Gus Hall the first time I was eligible to vote but, it's been Republican ever since then.
I had to wiki Gus Hall. Interesting. Wouldn't have guessed that one.
| 609 |
jdog29 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:03:21am |
what about all the cost not covered by Medicare, that is, the public option? Currently medicare approves a certain amount of a bill, usually around 2/3 of the bill, then medicare pays 80% of the approved charges leaving 20% of the approved charges to be paid by the patient AND 100% of the overcharges, read: the unapproved amount.
Sometimes some doctors will agree to take medicare assignment meaning they will write off anything not approved by medicare. The finest physicians USUALLY will not agree to write off anything.
Medicare supplement insurance is a multi-billion dollar business.
... and this is just one angle, everyone know there are so many angles about details of coverage, it will be right next to impossible for ANY bill to address all of them in a coherent way.
| 610 |
albusteve Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:03:35am |
BO...playing defense in NH
[Link: www.usatoday.com...]
| 611 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:03:52am |
re: #588 3 wood
Agreed.
The more I analyze this proposal, the more concerned I get.
BTW, 3wood, every time you post bad economic news, the market goes up.:) Please don't go optimistic on me, it's up today so far.
| 612 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:04:00am |
re: #603 JamesTKirk
Red shift also depends upon the relative position and velocity of the observer.
Exactly, but it can never be shifted to a single line indicating the speed of light has been exceeded, right?
| 613 |
Desert Dog Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:04:08am |
re: #602 realwest
Hey Walter - don't count on AARP endorsing whatever the health national health care plan comes out of D.C. - there was a meeting of AARP regional managers and members during which meeting the members shouted at the dissembling AARP "manager" some pretty bad things like "HEY- you work for US remember - what are you doing supporting Obama's election with OUR money?" at which point, showing her true Obama colors, the AARP Manager unplugged the microphones and left in a huff. How dare the members question their leadership?!? Now that's a mentality that would support Obama, but the rage of the AARP members in their belief (correct as it was) that AARP ought not to endorse Presidential candidates has been spreading. Mom and me got a letter from a group of self-describe "disgruntled AARP members" asking us to join them in getting new leadership just yesterday!
The AARP is a leftwing political organization. They portray themselves as non partisan and above politics. And, some of the things they offer are beneficial to seniors. But, they take all the money they raise and try to effect policies and support politicians that are almost exclusively leftist.
| 614 |
saylorfam Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:04:13am |
re: #577 iceweasel
I think this begs the larger question of how did Bobby Casey ever get elected in PA?
| 615 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:04:17am |
re: #585 Spenser (with an S)
I agree that two wrongs don't make a right. I was just disagreeing with your statement that the Dems stopped being nasty therefore they won the election. I know Obama kicked McCain's tail and convinced more people to vote for him.
Well, disagreement makes the world go round, and makes for a nice lively discussion on political blogs. :)
Obama won in part because he successfully convinced people he was 'above the fray'.
All I can tell you is that I was paying a lot of attention to the grassroots progressive movement from 2004 on. And shit didn't get pulled together until people started looking forward and putting out a positive message.
I'll still maintain that being nasty and rolling around in the dirt isn't working anymore as a political strategy. I'll go further-- the continuing collapse of the once-mighty Republican messaging machine is partly due to their inability to figure that out.
| 616 |
realwest Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:04:19am |
re: #545 avanti Respectfully the AARP has to BE NON-PARTISON, not just appear to be non-partisan.
| 617 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:04:47am |
re: #607 opnion
You seem upset that the more people learn about this dog of a proposal , the more the opposition grows.
SHUT UP YOU SWASTIKA-CARRYING UNAMERICAN WELL-DRESSED ASTROTURF! SHUT UP AND GET OUT OF THE WAY!
| 618 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:05:14am |
Just an observation... drcordell currently hold 9 out of 10 of the Bottom Comments. If a few helpful LGFers would care to pop over and down-ding him a few more times, I'm sure he can achieve a solid 10 out of 10!
| 619 |
spidly Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:05:27am |
re: #573 Walter L. Newton
There are penalties for both employers and ordinary citizens who don't opt into some health care. See Sec. 401 for the tax YOU will be required to pay if you don't want health coverage. And don't think about leaving the country, as long as you are a citizen, the IRS will come after you for the penatly.
quit being an extremist
| 620 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:05:31am |
re: #614 saylorfam
I think this
begsraises the larger question of how did Bobby Casey ever get elected in PA?
[pet peeve]
| 621 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:05:37am |
| 622 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:05:56am |
re: #612 turn
Exactly, but it can never be shifted to a single line indicating the speed of light has been exceeded, right?
I'm not entirely sure. I'm usually in a bubble of warp space at that point.
| 623 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:06:12am |
re: #618 Kenneth
Just an observation... drcordell currently hold 9 out of 10 of the Bottom Comments. If a few helpful LGFers would care to pop over and down-ding him a few more times, I'm sure he can achieve a solid 10 out of 10!
I saw lawhawk is at the top, poor guy lost is grandmother.
| 624 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:06:22am |
re: #591 FrogMarch
The message is control.
And those above $250,000? Dump the insurance and go for the government plan?
DINGDINGDING
| 625 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:06:24am |
| 626 |
realwest Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:06:33am |
re: #560 opnion
Hey opnion my friend, yep we are doing ok, thanks!
How are you doing today?
| 627 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:06:55am |
re: #594 Walter L. Newton
No, if you are a citizen, and living or working in another country, you have to still have coverage (under this proposal) or else they will levy the 2.5 percent tax on your gross adjusted income.
Greedy bastards.
| 628 |
Desert Dog Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:07:02am |
re: #609 jdog29
what about all the cost not covered by Medicare, that is, the public option? Currently medicare approves a certain amount of a bill, usually around 2/3 of the bill, then medicare pays 80% of the approved charges leaving 20% of the approved charges to be paid by the patient AND 100% of the overcharges, read: the unapproved amount.
Sometimes some doctors will agree to take medicare assignment meaning they will write off anything not approved by medicare. The finest physicians USUALLY will not agree to write off anything.
Medicare supplement insurance is a multi-billion dollar business.
... and this is just one angle, everyone know there are so many angles about details of coverage, it will be right next to impossible for ANY bill to address all of them in a coherent way.
If a senior citizen does not get a Medicare part b supplemental plan, they are running the risk of bankrupting themselves. My parents are both suffering from long term problems. They have both been hospitalized for extensive periods and both have ended up in rehab facilities as well. If they just had Medicare, their entire life savings would ahve been eaten.
| 629 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:07:14am |
re: #600 FrogMarch
But Obama just said yesterday in New Hampshire that the Government plan will be self-sustaining.
hmmm.
Massachusetts. How's the self-sustaining plan working out for you?/
| 630 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:07:17am |
re: #589 JamesTKirk
A jump to the left, or a step to the right?
It's the pelvic thrust that really drives them insane.
| 631 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:07:41am |
Anyone notice the IBM adds that proclaim "medium sized businesses" 'are the future of business.' ?
Our government has been so successful at demonized and vilifying large business, that large businesses are placing ads that say essentially 'no no no - we are not big - we are medium sized.'
| 632 |
realwest Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:07:49am |
re: #562 3 wood
Hey good morning 3 wood, how are you today?!
| 633 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:07:56am |
re: #620 Occasional Reader
[pet peeve]
Upding, as I also share that pet peeve. I hates it, precious, yes I does, when people use 'begs the question' to mean 'raises the question'.
| 634 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:08:02am |
re: #596 Occasional Reader
3wood, I assume you saw the story upthread about Hugo Chavez trying to ban golf?
It's bitchy of me but, I sometimes drive by the club on Sundays and holler, "GO HOME TO YOUR WIVES AND CHILDREN!"
| 635 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:08:22am |
re: #623 turn
I saw lawhawk is at the top, poor guy lost is grandmother.
Bypass the plasma conduits and inject tackeyons directly into the warp core. Works for me, and good for hangovers too.
| 637 |
albusteve Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:08:52am |
I think dinging should be anonymous...pet peeve
| 638 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:08:53am |
re: #634 MandyManners
It's bitchy of me but, I sometimes drive by the club on Sundays and holler, "GO HOME TO YOUR WIVES AND CHILDREN!"
And their wives and children reply, "SHUT UP AND MYOB, WE WANT HIM OUT, HE'S DRIVING US CRAZY!!!"
| 639 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:09:07am |
re: #568 MandyManners
Aw, you know I love you.
*headlock and noogies*
Okay, that I can handle. ;)
/nothing worse then getting caught up when work interferes.
| 640 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:09:09am |
re: #630 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
It's the pelvic thrust that really drives them insane.
Only when they're so-cons. :)
| 641 |
Flyers1974 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:09:20am |
re: #577 iceweasel
I've always wondered that. I wasn't paying attention at the time.
I will say I've spent some time in PA, and big chunks of that state are pretty...well, let's say time-warpish. And not in the good way.
(BTW, PA is a beautiful state and I have many good things to say about the more well-travelled parts of it. )
I think it used to be in the 70's 80's 90's that Philly and PA were Dem, the surrounding suburbs were divided, but favored the GOP and everywhere else was GOP. Perhaps what changed is that the burbs became Dem. Harris Wollford was his opponent and if I'm not mistaken, the Clinton healthcare plan might have caused him the election. I'll have to check that.
| 642 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:09:25am |
re: #612 turn
Exactly, but it can never be shifted to a single line indicating the speed of light has been exceeded, right?
If I recall a really-dumbed down example correctly: If you're on the Amtrak Super-Duper Acela, that travels at .9c; and you fire up your Honda Super-Ninja motorcyle and start driving it through the aisles toward the front of the train, at .2c; you will not - CANNOT - be traveling at 1.1c, even in relation to a stationary observer standing on the tracks right behind the train.
Don't ask me to explain that.
| 643 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:09:45am |
re: #608 Flyers1974
I had to wiki Gus Hall. Interesting. Wouldn't have guessed that one.
Oh, yeah. I was quite the little Commie.
| 644 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:10:09am |
re: #635 turn
You dumb shit turn, that was supposed to got the Kirk. Sorry lawhawk
| 645 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:10:16am |
re: #630 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
BDVM! Where you done been at?
| 646 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:10:30am |
re: #634 MandyManners
It's bitchy of me but, I sometimes drive by the club on Sundays and holler, "GO HOME TO YOUR WIVES AND CHILDREN!"
What makes you think their wives didn't send them there in the first place?
| 647 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:10:46am |
re: #596 Occasional Reader
3wood, I assume you saw the story upthread about Hugo Chavez trying to ban golf?
In Venezuela, EVERYBODY PAYS.
| 648 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:10:51am |
re: #637 albusteve
I think dinging should be anonymous...pet peeve
Except then even more people would use it to 'punish' people they don't like. Just like they're doing now, by having sockpuppets that exist only to downding people and views they don't like. Which Charles is rightly banning them for.
| 649 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:11:24am |
re: #637 albusteve
I think dinging should be anonymous...pet peeve
Nah. As much as I don't really care that much about karma (and snark at those who do), I do like to note which people I'm getting dings from. Not everyone appreciates what I like to loosely describe as my "sense of humor", so I usually restrict the majority of my smart-assedness to those who like indulging in banter with me.
There are other reasons, too.
| 650 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:11:34am |
re: #608 Flyers1974
I had to wiki Gus Hall. Interesting. Wouldn't have guessed that one.
Why do you think FCBBHO scares me so much?
| 651 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:11:55am |
re: #598 Desert Dog
ding, ding - we have a winner...But, remember, if you like your insurance, you can keep it...YA RIGHT. This is heading towards a single payer model, regardless of the "lie du jour" El Presidente is spouting off.
If we like our insurance in such large numbers, why do we need the government in the game? I don't think the founders thought "Hey - lets have the government shovel out health insurance"... "That will be good for freedom".
Why not fix Medicaid and Medicare first?
| 652 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:12:07am |
re: #634 MandyManners
It's bitchy of me but, I sometimes drive by the club on Sundays and holler, "GO HOME TO YOUR WIVES AND CHILDREN!"
See, that's why I go to the pistol range instead. No way I can hear you over all that shooting.
| 653 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:12:07am |
| 654 |
albusteve Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:12:23am |
re: #649 JamesTKirk
Nah. As much as I don't really care that much about karma (and snark at those who do), I do like to note which people I'm getting dings from. Not everyone appreciates what I like to loosely describe as my "sense of humor", so I usually restrict the majority of my smart-assedness to those who like indulging in banter with me.
There are other reasons, too.
I must be a ding Nazi
| 655 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:12:28am |
re: #634 MandyManners
It's bitchy of me but, I sometimes drive by the club on Sundays and holler, "GO HOME TO YOUR WIVES AND CHILDREN!"
I wondered who was saying that! You got me in my backswing, dang you!
/
| 656 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:12:34am |
re: #605 Occasional Reader
Ah, good. So our masters may allow us to be slightly more successful before penalizing us for it. Well, that's a load off my mind.
If the goal is to get coverage for all Americans, small business will have to be included. If it's mandated, all the small guys will be in the same boat, your car wash will be covering your workers just like the car wash down the road, and you'll both have to add a $1.00 to your price for example. It'll br a added cost, just like a rent increase, or a new tax.
One of the problem now is the grocery store chain that does not take care of it's health care, has leg up on one that does. That's one reason Walmart supports health care reform, they get so much bad press for their health care program. They expect more drug sales too.
| 657 |
realwest Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:12:41am |
re: #596 Occasional Reader
3wood, I assume you saw the story upthread about Hugo Chavez trying to ban golf?
BAN GOLF! Why that's Un-American!
Uh, waitaminute.
Nevermind.
Morning O.R.
| 658 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:12:43am |
re: #642 Occasional Reader
If I recall a really-dumbed down example correctly: If you're on the Amtrak Super-Duper Acela, that travels at .9c; and you fire up your Honda Super-Ninja motorcyle and start driving it through the aisles toward the front of the train, at .2c; you will not - CANNOT - be traveling at 1.1c, even in relation to a stationary observer standing on the tracks right behind the train.
Don't ask me to explain that.
ok, I've slept since physics class too. But yes, the speed of light can't be exceeded.
| 659 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:13:11am |
| 660 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:13:15am |
re: #591 FrogMarch
The message is control.
And those above $250,000? Dump the insurance and go for the government plan?
I think that will be the likely long term impact.
You have to understand that there is a "loss ratio" that all plans in the basket will have to comply with. In other words, they have to pay out so much of their income (to be determined by the Comissioner) or else give rebates. That mean that the government will control how much profit that can be made, in addition to how much doctors and hospitals will get paid for their work.
At the very same time the private insurance companies in the basket will have to compete with the public plan, which has the advantage of falling back on the public check book to eat their losses. How do you compete with an entity that can have the US government eat their losses in a bad year and you can't? Inevitably, any private plan will have a bad year eventually of claims and losses and not be able to get it back in premium increases.
I think it will take a few years, but eventually you would be left with just the public plan.
Also, when Obama says that if you like your plan you can keep it, he is being technically correct but very misleading in my opinion. Again the grandfather clause will allow current plans to continue until they change something like premiums or coverage. Then, they will have to comply with the government set standards and apply to be accepted into the HEI basket of available plans, or else stop operation.
The upshot is, while no one person is going to tell you that you can't keep your plan, the way the legislation works is that it would automatically be shifted into the HEI with whatever changes that entails or else discontinue.
| 661 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:13:16am |
re: #618 Kenneth
Just an observation... drcordell currently hold 9 out of 10 of the Bottom Comments. If a few helpful LGFers would care to pop over and down-ding him a few more times, I'm sure he can achieve a solid 10 out of 10!
He had it all yesteday for a period. I think this is the third time--I know for sure that it's the second.
| 662 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:13:17am |
re: #626 realwest
Hey opnion my friend, yep we are doing ok, thanks!
How are you doing today?
Doing well my friend, salutes.
| 663 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:13:27am |
re: #637 albusteve
I think dinging should be anonymous...pet peeve
I dinged you down, just to show my disagreement. :P
Seriously, I think it's good and healthy that it's not anonymous, but rather... er... nonymous. It proximates live conversation a little more closely that way.
| 664 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:13:29am |
| 665 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:13:55am |
re: #642 Occasional Reader
If you're driving at the speed of light, and you turn on your headlights, what happens?
| 666 |
Gang of One Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:13:57am |
re: #650 MandyManners
Why do you think FCBBHO scares me so much?
I think it was Reagan who said something along the lines of people who read Marx become communists; people who understand Marx do not.
| 667 |
Creeping Eruption Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:14:10am |
re: #658 turn
ok, I've slept since physics class too. But yes, the speed of light can't be exceeded.
Tachyon?
| 668 |
right_wing2 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:14:13am |
re: #656 avanti
But... but... the Obamessiah PROMISED taxes wouldn't go up on anyone making under $250,000/yr.
| 669 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:14:54am |
re: #611 avanti
BTW, 3wood, every time you post bad economic news, the market goes up.:) Please don't go optimistic on me, it's up today so far.
Do not confuse the daily variations in market movements with economic health.
Unless you understand why the market moves at any given time, that can be a very expensive mistake for an investor to make.
| 670 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:15:00am |
re: #638 JamesTKirk
And their wives and children reply, "SHUT UP AND MYOB, WE WANT HIM OUT, HE'S DRIVING US CRAZY!!!"
Feel the familial love!
| 671 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:15:17am |
re: #665 JamesTKirk
If you're driving at the speed of light, and you turn on your headlights, what happens?
You could never reach the speed of light in the first place.
| 672 |
Flyers1974 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:15:26am |
re: #614 saylorfam
I think this begs the larger question of how did Bobby Casey ever get elected in PA?
Do you mean because of his anti-abortion stance? If so, I'd guess pro-choice Democrats voted for him just because he wasn't Santorum.
| 673 |
jill e Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:15:34am |
Interesting article: The Whole Foods Alternative to ObamaCare
Even in countries like Canada and the U.K., there is no intrinsic right to health care. Rather, citizens in these countries are told by government bureaucrats what health-care treatments they are eligible to receive and when they can receive them. All countries with socialized medicine ration health care by forcing their citizens to wait in lines to receive scarce treatments.
Although Canada has a population smaller than California, 830,000 Canadians are currently waiting to be admitted to a hospital or to get treatment, according to a report last month in Investor's Business Daily. In England, the waiting list is 1.8 million.
| 674 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:15:36am |
re: #639 BlueCanuck
Okay, that I can handle. ;)
/nothing worse then getting caught up when work interferes.
That's a four-letter word.
| 675 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:15:39am |
re: #656 avanti
One of the problem now is the grocery store chain that does not take care of it's health care, has leg up on one that does.
Except, of course, when it comes time to hire.
How 'bout we let the market decide?
And for that matter, the entire idea that health care insurance is "supposed" to be provided by an employer (as opposed to being something you simply purchase on your own, like food and clothing) is a relic of WWII. But I digress.
| 676 |
albusteve Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:15:41am |
| 677 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:16:01am |
re: #666 Gang of One
I think it was Reagan who said something along the lines of people who read Marx become communists; people who understand Marx do not.
No one's read Marx, not even Marx.
/Seriously, most of Marx's writings have never been published.
| 678 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:16:11am |
re: #665 JamesTKirk
If you're driving at the speed of light, and you turn on your headlights, what happens?
The photons pile up on your headlights, and you have to switch on the headlight-wipers to get rid of 'em.
| 679 |
Gang of One Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:16:25am |
re: #665 JamesTKirk
If you're driving at the speed of light, and you turn on your headlights, what happens?
"I don't know."
"Then I'm not going to work for you."
/Steven Wright
| 680 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:16:41am |
| 681 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:16:47am |
re: #660 3 wood
How do you compete with an entity that can have the US government eat their losses in a bad year and you can't? Inevitably, any private plan will have a bad year eventually of claims and losses and not be able to get it back in premium increases.I think it will take a few years, but eventually you would be left with just the public plan.
It seems pretty clear. No matter how many times Obama changes his rhetoric.
| 682 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:16:47am |
re: #596 Occasional Reader
3wood, I assume you saw the story upthread about Hugo Chavez trying to ban golf?
Nope, I've been too busy this morning. What, can't he tax it enough?
| 683 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:17:07am |
| 684 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:17:48am |
re: #580 avanti
I think he pretty much had it publicly until the town halls scared the shit out of some seniors and they started tearing up their cards. Go back a week or two, and you'll find the AARP was much more vocal in their support. No question they still support a plan, though no particular bill yet. If it pleases you to think the AARP endorsement is a lie, I don't mind, since it's just a matter of spin.
Oh. A plan. Well thanks for clearing that up...NOT.
Now this is my kind of spin.
| 685 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:17:51am |
re: #667 Creeping Eruption
Tachyon?
I screwed up that post, it should have gone to 622. It was a lame star trek joke, and of course you know turn can't speel worth shit. Morning CE.
| 686 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:17:56am |
re: #679 Gang of One
"I don't know."
"Then I'm not going to work for you."
/Steven Wright
You got it!
| 687 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:18:01am |
re: #658 turn
ok, I've slept since physics class too. But yes, the speed of light can't be exceeded.
Actually, I believe the rule is that it can't be REACHED. In principle, something with mass can travel faster than light, it merely can't travel at the speed of light.
| 688 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:18:04am |
re: #645 Occasional Reader
BDVM! Where you done been at?
I've actually been working instead of screwing around on LGF. Speaking of which, it's back to work for me.
| 689 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:18:13am |
re: #599 Occasional Reader
Could I please have your e-mail address, so I can report you to flag@whitehouse.gov. Thank you.
I'm sure I have been turned in repeatedly.
| 690 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:18:21am |
re: #668 right_wing2
But... but... the Obamessiah PROMISED taxes wouldn't go up on anyone making under $250,000/yr.
He has kept that promise, payroll is not income. My payroll was a bit over 200K, but I took a salary of less than 70K for my wife and I.
| 691 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:18:30am |
| 692 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:18:51am |
re: #680 MandyManners
Between the "a" and the "t".
*pet peeve*
But I was being deliberately ironic, you see.
Just I was here, in beginning a sentence with "but".
| 693 |
jcm Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:19:08am |
Mornin' Honcos!
ALRIGHT! Who took the last cup of coffee and didn't start another pot?
| 694 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:19:27am |
| 695 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:19:34am |
| 696 |
spidly Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:19:36am |
Hmmm... a lot of extremist right wing fear mongering about Obama care this morning. quiet down and lets have a civil discussion on what form of Obamacare we're going to have.
| 697 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:19:42am |
re: #605 Occasional Reader
Ah, good. So our masters may allow us to be slightly more successful before penalizing us for it. Well, that's a load off my mind.
As if they would not amend it back down later.
| 698 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:19:48am |
re: #666 Gang of One
I think it was Reagan who said something along the lines of people who read Marx become communists; people who understand Marx do not.
I was the former which lead me to becoming the latter.
| 699 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:20:03am |
USMC forces are engaged in physically driving the Taliban further down the Helmand River valley, which ultimately turns West to meet the crossroads at Zahedan; it is a chain of river towns leading from the heart of Afghanistan constituting an inner arc shadowing the Pakistani frontier anchored on the west by a major road. The ongoing USMC operations are the largest since Fallujah and are said to involve some of largest heliborne movements ever. The new mobility has allowed the USMC to attack from multiple directions at once. The stated goals of the operation are to secure more area in anticipation of the scheduled Afghan Presidential elections and to go on the offensive against the Taliban. But it’s likely that the current operation is aimed at the economic engine of the Taliban as much as anything else.
More here:
| 700 |
Gang of One Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:20:08am |
re: #691 MandyManners
Actually, my hots for Lt. Col. Oliver North helped me out of Communism.
Good looking, intelligent men in uniform does it all the time.
/I was a BoyScout once ...
| 701 |
Creeping Eruption Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:20:28am |
re: #685 turn
Morning Turn. Good thing I missed the joke, it probably would have been wasted on me anyway.
| 702 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:20:28am |
re: #687 Occasional Reader
Actually, I believe the rule is that it can't be REACHED. In principle, something with mass can travel faster than light, it merely can't travel at the speed of light.
Yes, that is my understanding too. Weird stuff happens, dimensions flatten out, time dilates, and your stomach growls.
| 703 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:20:28am |
re: #658 turn
ok, I've slept since physics class too. But yes, the speed of light can't be exceeded.
seems like "atomic familiarity" disproves the speed of light thing. the atomic spin of a proton a zillion light years away is determined immediately by the discovery of the spin of it's parent no matter how far it has traveled before that spin was determined. something like that anyway although I used proton I believe another name should replace it
| 704 |
realwest Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:20:49am |
re: #611 avanti
BTW, 3wood, every time you post bad economic news, the market goes up.:) Please don't go optimistic on me, it's up today so far.
Hey, how're those unemployment figures doing there avanti - "ONLY" 247,000 new applicants for unemployment insurance in July! Leaving only 9.4% of the workforce (as measured by a bizzare governmental standard which ISN'T of Obama's making - forgot who decided to count umemployed as only those seeking unemploment insurance and doesn't include folks who've run out of unemployment insurance even though they still don't have jobs). Does it comfort you to know that ONLY 9.4% of the workforce by that governemtal standard are unemployed? Play your fucking stock market games when the GNP goes UP enough that people can get jobs - at or close to what they were making in income before they got laid off - otherwise,you're just a lucky gambler at the casinos.
| 705 |
jcm Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:21:04am |
re: #691 MandyManners
Actually, my hots for Lt. Col. Oliver North helped me out of Communism.
Hunks (R) Us to win in '12!
| 706 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:21:09am |
| 707 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:21:42am |
re: #675 Occasional Reader
Except, of course, when it comes time to hire.
How 'bout we let the market decide?
And for that matter, the entire idea that health care insurance is "supposed" to be provided by an employer (as opposed to being something you simply purchase on your own, like food and clothing) is a relic of WWII. But I digress.
There are folks willing to work without health care just to get a job, and that employer has a leg up. Letting the market decide, is pure capitalism, and does not exist. If it did, a auto worker would make $10.00/hour with no perks for his unskilled labor.
| 708 |
jdog29 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:21:42am |
how much is the co-pay for a doctor's visit on the public option?
| 710 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:22:01am |
re: #700 Gang of One
Good looking, intelligent men in uniform does it all the time.
/I was a BoyScout once ...
I was a busboy at Chi-Chis. A Hawaiian shirt & black slacks does so count as a uniform!
| 711 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:22:02am |
re: #705 jcm
Gotta say, Mitt Romney does look pretty dashing.
| 713 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:22:46am |
re: #632 realwest
Hey good morning 3 wood, how are you today?!
doing fine, checkyour email.
You and Mom doing OK?
| 714 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:22:46am |
re: #677 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
No one's read Marx, not even Marx.
/Seriously, most of Marx's writings have never been published.
yeah , but we know we he meant
| 715 |
Lincolntf Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:22:51am |
re: #681 FrogMarch
Yup. It's clear to everybody who is paying attention. Despite the fact that Obama and his little groupies continue to lie about their intentions, Americans are not gonna fall for this scam (fingers crossed).
| 716 |
jdog29 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:22:54am |
how long is the average wait for by-pass surgery under the public option and how much of the bill will the patient have to pay?
| 717 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:23:07am |
re: #703 apachegunner
seems like "atomic familiarity" disproves the speed of light thing. the atomic spin of a proton a zillion light years away is determined immediately by the discovery of the spin of it's parent no matter how far it has traveled before that spin was determined. something like that anyway although I used proton I believe another name should replace it
| 718 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:23:12am |
re: #706 Occasional Reader
I did too, for a Powerpoint presentation in politics class.
Of course, that was also the same year Borat came out, so I had a little bit of fun making it. ;3
/"Communists read Marx and Lenin. But those who hate communism understood Marx and Lenin."
//who said that again?
| 719 |
jcm Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:23:35am |
re: #708 jdog29
how much is the co-pay for a doctor's visit on the public option?
How much do you have?
| 720 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:23:43am |
re: #634 MandyManners
It's bitchy of me but, I sometimes drive by the club on Sundays and holler, "GO HOME TO YOUR WIVES AND CHILDREN!"
So that was you, eh?
| 721 |
jcm Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:24:00am |
re: #718 laZardo
I did too, for a Powerpoint presentation in politics class.
Of course, that was also the same year Borat came out, so I had a little bit of fun making it. ;3
/"Communists read Marx and Lenin. But those who hate communism understood Marx and Lenin."
//who said that again?
Click my avatar...
| 722 |
right_wing2 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:24:21am |
re: #690 avanti
Yes, but when prices increase because of Obamas taxes, that's an indirect tax on anyone who has to pay it.
One speech Obama gave, he said something along the lines of 'energy prices will necessarily skyrocket' which is another form of an indrect tax.
| 723 |
realwest Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:24:24am |
re: #628 Desert Dog
Part B costs $100 a month in "premiums" and really only allows you to get part "c" which covers that 20% spread.
Part "J" - the premium for which is sky high, will cover doctor/hospital costs at whatever the doctor/hospital normally charges, not the amount Medicare would allow. But you can't get Part C if you don't first get Part B!
Are we having fun yet?
| 724 |
Creeping Eruption Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:24:42am |
| 725 |
jdog29 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:24:43am |
Under the public option how bad do my cataracts have to get before the surgery will be deemed necessary rather than elective and will there be any recourse if I am in an accident and it is determined to have been caused by my impaired eyesight?
| 726 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:24:55am |
re: #689 3 wood
I'm sure I have been turned in repeatedly.
Actually...
I hate to say I told you so, but I did tell LGF so. In re: the scary "Obama wants you to turn in your neighbours!" stuff, I said the WH was asking for the content of false emails... and I predicted that the WH had a webpage in the works designed to refute the most common lies and misapprehensions about health care reform.
Lo! [Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]
Also, front page of the official site now:
[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]
Not sayin', just sayin'. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one, you know?
| 727 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:25:19am |
re: #703 apachegunner
seems like "atomic familiarity" disproves the speed of light thing. the atomic spin of a proton a zillion light years away is determined immediately by the discovery of the spin of it's parent no matter how far it has traveled before that spin was determined. something like that anyway although I used proton I believe another name should replace it
Oh, I remember studying that phenomena too. I think it is used in super high tech encryption technology.
| 728 |
jdog29 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:25:47am |
Under the public option will congress write themselves an exception so none of the legislation will apply to them or their familes?
| 729 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:25:47am |
| 730 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:25:58am |
re: #726 iceweasel
Actually...
I hate to say I told you so, but I did tell LGF so. In re: the scary "Obama wants you to turn in your neighbours!" stuff, I said the WH was asking for the content of false emails... and I predicted that the WH had a webpage in the works designed to refute the most common lies and misapprehensions about health care reform.
Lo! [Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]
Also, front page of the official site now:
[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]
Not sayin', just sayin'. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one, you know?
The one concern I have is that they keep the emails.
| 731 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:26:01am |
re: #707 avanti
There are folks willing to work without health care just to get a job, and that employer has a leg up. Letting the market decide, is pure capitalism, and does not exist. If it did, a auto worker would make $10.00/hour with no perks for his unskilled labor.
Why even pay with money? I'm sure most people will work for cans of SPAM & a glass of tap water each day!
/
| 732 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:26:01am |
re: #704 realwest
Hey, how're those unemployment figures doing there avanti - "ONLY" 247,000 new applicants for unemployment insurance in July! Leaving only 9.4% of the workforce (as measured by a bizzare governmental standard which ISN'T of Obama's making - forgot who decided to count umemployed as only those seeking unemploment insurance and doesn't include folks who've run out of unemployment insurance even though they still don't have jobs). Does it comfort you to know that ONLY 9.4% of the workforce by that governemtal standard are unemployed? Play your fucking stock market games when the GNP goes UP enough that people can get jobs - at or close to what they were making in income before they got laid off - otherwise,you're just a lucky gambler at the casinos.
Those figures were great news, and the market responded. As long as the numbers keep going down, even though the rate may peak a bit higher, it's good news.
It's bad news for the quarter million, but better than the 600,000 plus we were losing. Even one job lost is bad, but the news is less bad at least.
| 733 |
jcm Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:26:13am |
re: #724 Creeping Eruption
Is that the internet version of "pull my finger?"
| 734 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:26:41am |
re: #725 jdog29
Under the public option how bad do my cataracts have to get before the surgery will be deemed necessary rather than elective and will there be any recourse if I am in an accident and it is determined to have been caused by my impaired eyesight?
read the form silly
| 735 |
jcm Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:27:13am |
re: #730 Walter L. Newton
The one concern I have is that they keep the emails.
WH is required by law to retain all communications.
| 736 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:27:28am |
| 737 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:27:44am |
re: #665 JamesTKirk
If you're driving at the speed of light, and you turn on your headlights, what happens?
I don't know but I'll ask one of my daughters, cause they've done it in my cars.
| 739 |
albusteve Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:27:53am |
| 740 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:27:58am |
re: #673 jill e
Interesting article: The Whole Foods Alternative to ObamaCare
Even in countries like Canada and the U.K., there is no intrinsic right to health care. Rather, citizens in these countries are told by government bureaucrats what health-care treatments they are eligible to receive and when they can receive them. All countries with socialized medicine ration health care by forcing their citizens to wait in lines to receive scarce treatments.
Although Canada has a population smaller than California, 830,000 Canadians are currently waiting to be admitted to a hospital or to get treatment, according to a report last month in Investor's Business Daily. In England, the waiting list is 1.8 million.
With a projected $1.8 trillion deficit for 2009, several trillions more in deficits projected over the next decade, and with both Medicare and Social Security entitlement spending about to ratchet up several notches over the next 15 years as Baby Boomers become eligible for both, we are rapidly running out of other people's money. These deficits are simply not sustainable. They are either going to result in unprecedented new taxes and inflation, or they will bankrupt us.
Obama promised (thanks to Charles for the healthy reminder)
“I won’t sign a bill that adds to the national debt or the deficit.”
Government in the health care business is so unbelievably unnecessary. It seems only the blind-faithers/economically clueless are on board.
| 741 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:28:00am |
re: #716 jdog29
how long is the average wait for by-pass surgery under the public option and how much of the bill will the patient have to pay?
I'm covered by the public plan, medicare, but seldom use it, so I'm no help.
| 742 |
jdog29 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:28:05am |
Under the public option ... now fill in the blank with your legitimate question concerning whatever you want to know and the REAL answer is...
NO ONE HAS THE SLIGHTEST CLUE, BUT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO JUST TRUST THEM.
| 743 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:28:06am |
re: #730 Walter L. Newton
The one concern I have is that they keep the emails.
They are required to do so. All emails to the WH are archived.
And if you forward a letter to them, then the WH also gets all of the header information -- the name and email address of the person who sent the email to you; and possibly a whole list of other recipient names.
| 744 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:28:13am |
re: #726 iceweasel
I don't think anyone here was freaking out. It was more laughter at what a tone-deaf, scary-1984-sounding, stupid idea even setting that address up and talking about it.
| 745 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:28:32am |
re: #725 jdog29
Under the public option how bad do my cataracts have to get before the surgery will be deemed necessary rather than elective and will there be any recourse if I am in an accident and it is determined to have been caused by my impaired eyesight?
Under Obama's Cash for Clunkers, you can trade in those cataracts for a more fuel-efficient car.
/
| 746 |
Creeping Eruption Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:28:36am |
| 747 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:28:39am |
re: #735 jcm
WH is required by law to retain all communications.
I know, that was my point. Every email that ends up on any government computer has to be archived.
| 749 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:28:46am |
re: #730 Walter L. Newton
The one concern I have is that they keep the emails.
They will likely keep the email addresses of those who emailed them-- in order to continually email them health care info. (probably other stuff too)
It's no different than the strategy Obama used (highly successfully) in the campaign to combat rumours and lies, and generate an email list.
| 750 |
jdog29 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:28:54am |
re: #741 avanti
I'm covered by the public plan, medicare, but seldom use it, so I'm no help.
So the public option will be identical to Medicare???
| 751 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:28:55am |
re: #726 iceweasel
Reminds me of some dude's razor. Something about the simplest explanation.
| 752 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:29:00am |
| 753 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:29:25am |
re: #751 rwdflynavy
Reminds me of some dude's razor. Something about the simplest explanation.
occam
| 754 |
realwest Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:29:39am |
Well y'all it's been real. But I gotta get started on those chores. Have a great day y'all and I hope I get the chance to see you all down the road!
| 755 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:29:58am |
re: #743 JamesTKirk
They are required to do so. All emails to the WH are archived.
And if you forward a letter to them, then the WH also gets all of the header information -- the name and email address of the person who sent the email to you; and possibly a whole list of other recipient names.
I know, that's what I was saying. I worked for the DOE for 13 years, I was there when the feds formulated a lot of the new rules about electronic communications and archiving.
| 756 |
Gang of One Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:30:01am |
re: #751 rwdflynavy
Reminds me of some dude's razor. Something about the simplest explanation.
Occam on now ...
//Really, really BBL
| 757 |
right_wing2 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:30:16am |
re: #707 avanti
There are folks willing to work without health care just to get a job, and that employer has a leg up. Letting the market decide, is pure capitalism, and does not exist. If it did, a auto worker would make $10.00/hour with no perks for his unskilled labor.
Then company 'B' would come along, paying 12/hr no benefits, or 10/hr PLUS some benefits and hire people away. Then 'A' would add benefits or pay.
We see this happening in the 3rd world countries where US factories are set up. People FLOCK to those jobs because, while they don't pay what we consider a good wage, the pay is better than anything else in the area.
| 758 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:30:25am |
re: #751 rwdflynavy
Reminds me of some dude's razor. Something about the simplest explanation.
Occam's Razor.
| 760 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:30:50am |
| 761 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:31:00am |
re: #749 iceweasel
They will likely keep the email addresses of those who emailed them-- in order to continually email them health care info. (probably other stuff too)
It's no different than the strategy Obama used (highly successfully) in the campaign to combat rumours and lies, and generate an email list.
There have to keep the WHOLE email. It's federal law, all electronic communication has to be archived, period. I worked for the DOE for 13 years and I was there when these rules were formulated.
| 762 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:31:24am |
| 763 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:31:54am |
re: #744 Spenser (with an S)
I don't think anyone here was freaking out. It was more laughter at what a tone-deaf, scary-1984-sounding, stupid idea even setting that address up and talking about it.
Not so. A shitload of people were freaking out, claiming this was fascism and totalitarianism, and that Obama was building an 'enemies list'.
In reality, this was a perfectly reasonable request, obviously intended for the purpose I mentioned (combating the smears). And for those who darkly mutter that Teh WH is looking at your email header!-- you could always delete the info of the person who sent it to you, you know?
It's like Glenn Beck claiming the gov't will steal your computer over the cash for clunkers business.
| 764 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:31:59am |
re: #759 jcm
Golf puns are rough.
I don't know much about golf, so if I attempt any I'llprobably look pretty green.
| 765 |
right_wing2 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:32:26am |
Oh God. Here come the puns.
Invertebrate punster. So slug me.
| 766 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:32:55am |
re: #716 jdog29
how long is the average wait for by-pass surgery under the public option and how much of the bill will the patient have to pay?
No way to tell. All you can do is look to other socialist plans and see what happens under their scenarios and try to project.
| 767 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:33:09am |
re: #765 right_wing2
Most of them show a lack of fore sight.
| 768 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:33:22am |
re: #765 right_wing2
Oh God. Here come the puns.
Invertebrate punster. So slug me.
Don't worry about it. We will soon iron it out.
| 769 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:33:27am |
re: #707 avanti
There are folks willing to work without health care just to get a job, and that employer has a leg up. Letting the market decide, is pure capitalism, and does not exist. If it did, a auto worker would make $10.00/hour with no perks for his unskilled labor.
Why pay $10/hour when you can get people to work for nothing?
| 770 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:33:38am |
re: #761 Walter L. Newton
There have to keep the WHOLE email.
Yes, walter. But they didn't ask people to 'turn in' email addresses or names, and this was obviously about building the webpage I predicted, which is now up and running.
| 771 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:33:49am |
re: #750 jdog29
So the public option will be identical to Medicare???
No idea what it will be like yet, or even if there will be a public option. Now that I think of of it, I'm bored with discussing what may or may not be over and over so I'll leave the health care debate again for a bit.
| 772 |
spidly Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:34:01am |
re: #722 right_wing2
Yes, but when prices increase because of Obamas taxes, that's an indirect tax on anyone who has to pay it.
One speech Obama gave, he said something along the lines of 'energy prices will necessarily skyrocket' which is another form of an indrect tax.
Then there's inflation, then there's the current rates expiring next year (not a tax increase just a return to the old rates don't you know) then there's the fact that you can't keep going to the top x% well to fund all this stuff and they've already floated across the board increases.
95% have already had a tax cut as promised according to the admin. I think it was the stimulus check or something that counted for that. Guess he never said 95% would have a permanent reduction in rates.
| 773 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:34:26am |
re: #771 avanti
No idea what it will be like yet, or even if there will be a public option. Now that I think of of it, I'm bored with discussing what may or may not be over and over so I'll leave the health care debate again for a bit.
Same here. Really sick of it.
| 774 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:35:03am |
re: #673 jill e
Interesting article: The Whole Foods Alternative to ObamaCare
While we clearly need health-care reform, the last thing our country needs is a massive new health-care entitlement that will create hundreds of billions of dollars of new unfunded deficits and move us much closer to a government takeover of our health-care system. Instead, we should be trying to achieve reforms by moving in the opposite direction—toward less government control and more individual empowerment.
| 775 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:35:12am |
| 776 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:35:40am |
| 777 |
theuglydougling Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:36:04am |
Coyote urine granules to ward off pests: $18
Extra fencing materials to keep out pests: $60
Discovering this morning that suburban deer are still eating my watermelon vines: mind-numbingly, foot-stompingly, vein-poppingly priceless...er, maddening
| 778 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:36:10am |
re: #704 realwest
Hey, how're those unemployment figures doing there avanti - "ONLY" 247,000 new applicants for unemployment insurance in July! Leaving only 9.4% of the workforce (as measured by a bizzare governmental standard which ISN'T of Obama's making - forgot who decided to count umemployed as only those seeking unemploment insurance and doesn't include folks who've run out of unemployment insurance even though they still don't have jobs). Does it comfort you to know that ONLY 9.4% of the workforce by that governemtal standard are unemployed? Play your fucking stock market games when the GNP goes UP enough that people can get jobs - at or close to what they were making in income before they got laid off - otherwise,you're just a lucky gambler at the casinos.
Come on Real, facts are so passe. We are into feelings now.
| 779 |
spidly Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:36:19am |
re: #750 jdog29
So the public option will be identical to Medicare???
dunno, something like it probably. the Dr. reimbursement schedule is based on medicare rates - no where near enough +5% or something like that.
| 780 |
jcm Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:36:26am |
From Gene Green (D) -- Town hall meetings are one of my favorite ways to communicate with constituents. I have held hundreds during my years of service in Congress and always welcomed everyone to attend. Unfortunately, due to a coordinated effort to disrupt our town hall meetings, we will be restricting further attendance to residents of the 29th Congressional District and verifying residency by requiring photo identification.
Photo ID to attended a townhall but not to vote!
| 781 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:37:18am |
| 782 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:37:30am |
re: #775 Pianobuff
Anybody see this yet?
BUSTED!: "Obama As Hitler" Poster Was A Democrat/Union Plant At John Dingell Townhall! UPDATED with video interview!
Well, the Dems have eight years of experience photoshopping Hitler moustaches onto presidents, so it's no surprise that they'd be able to carry this skill over to Obama (albeit for different purposes).
| 783 |
jcm Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:37:33am |
re: #777 theuglydougling
Coyote urine granules to ward off pests: $18
Extra fencing materials to keep out pests: $60
Discovering this morning that suburban deer are still eating my watermelon vines: mind-numbingly, foot-stompingly, vein-poppingly priceless...er, maddening
There's a solution... venison steak.
| 784 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:37:44am |
re: #732 avanti
Those figures were great news, and the market responded. As long as the numbers keep going down, even though the rate may peak a bit higher, it's good news.
You understand why those numbers went down, right?
They went down because hundreds of thousands of unemployed people (many more than the 247,000 who lost their jobs) gave up hope ans topped looking for work.
So the fell out of the statistics of people considered in the labor pool.
They gave up hope...
So the ratio got smaller.
That's not a good thing.
| 785 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:37:45am |
re: #726 iceweasel
Actually...
I hate to say I told you so, but I did tell LGF so. In re: the scary "Obama wants you to turn in your neighbours!" stuff, I said the WH was asking for the content of false emails... and I predicted that the WH had a webpage in the works designed to refute the most common lies and misapprehensions about health care reform.
Lo! [Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]
Also, front page of the official site now:
[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]
Not sayin', just sayin'. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one, you know?
Um... you realize you're triumphantly "refuting" an argument that no one here actually made, right? That is, you're refuting a straw man. Nobody was saying that the "flag" site was soley for collecting names and e-mail addresses, and that the content of the messages would be simply thrown out. But nice move, again, with those goalposts.
And I repeat; if the Bush administration had done EXACTLY the same thing 5 years ago regarding, say, the Iraq War, you'd have freaked.
| 787 |
KenJen Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:38:11am |
re: #777 theuglydougling
Coyote urine granules to ward off pests: $18
Extra fencing materials to keep out pests: $60
Discovering this morning that suburban deer are still eating my watermelon vines: mind-numbingly, foot-stompingly, vein-poppingly priceless...er, maddening
Have you tried human hair. I hear it works. Go to a local barber shop and get some for free. Kinda gross though.
| 788 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:38:19am |
There's also this...
Little girl at Obama town hall has not-so-random political connections
| 789 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:38:19am |
re: #673 jill e
Interesting article: The Whole Foods Alternative to ObamaCare
.
OK - I'm obsessing. but it's a good article with some solid ideas.
Remove the legal obstacles that slow the creation of high-deductible health insurance plans and health savings accounts (HSAs). The combination of high-deductible health insurance and HSAs is one solution that could solve many of our health-care problems. For example, Whole Foods Market pays 100% of the premiums for all our team members who work 30 hours or more per week (about 89% of all team members) for our high-deductible health-insurance plan. We also provide up to $1,800 per year in additional health-care dollars through deposits into employees' Personal Wellness Accounts to spend as they choose on their own health and wellness.
Money not spent in one year rolls over to the next and grows over time. Our team members therefore spend their own health-care dollars until the annual deductible is covered (about $2,500) and the insurance plan kicks in. This creates incentives to spend the first $2,500 more carefully. Our plan's costs are much lower than typical health insurance, while providing a very high degree of worker satisfaction.
• Equalize the tax laws so that employer-provided health insurance and individually owned health insurance have the same tax benefits. Now employer health insurance benefits are fully tax deductible, but individual health insurance is not. This is unfair.
• Repeal all state laws which prevent insurance companies from competing across state lines. We should all have the legal right to purchase health insurance from any insurance company in any state and we should be able use that insurance wherever we live. Health insurance should be portable.
• Repeal government mandates regarding what insurance companies must cover. These mandates have increased the cost of health insurance by billions of dollars. What is insured and what is not insured should be determined by individual customer preferences and not through special-interest lobbying.
• Enact tort reform to end the ruinous lawsuits that force doctors to pay insurance costs of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. These costs are passed back to us through much higher prices for health care.
• Make costs transparent so that consumers understand what health-care treatments cost. How many people know the total cost of their last doctor's visit and how that total breaks down? What other goods or services do we buy without knowing how much they will cost us?
• Enact Medicare reform. We need to face up to the actuarial fact that Medicare is heading towards bankruptcy and enact reforms that create greater patient empowerment, choice and responsibility.
• Finally, revise tax forms to make it easier for individuals to make a voluntary, tax-deductible donation to help the millions of people who have no insurance and aren't covered by Medicare, Medicaid or the State Children's Health Insurance Program.
| 791 |
Lincolntf Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:38:46am |
If Obama or his dipshit flunkies actually believe what they are saying, let them put their money where their mouths are.
Guarantee us that if the Health Care plan adds to the deficit, it will be discontinued. If anyone loses their current insurance, it is discontinued. If anyone has to switch doctors, it is discontinued, etc...
Any chance of that? Nope.
| 792 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:38:52am |
re: #770 iceweasel
Yes, walter. But they didn't ask people to 'turn in' email addresses or names, and this was obviously about building the webpage I predicted, which is now up and running.
They said to send the 'Chain email" Nothing was said about removing email addresses. You just trust their good intentionns?
| 793 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:38:59am |
| 794 |
jdog29 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:39:10am |
I believe attrition is part of the plan. Politicians are phenomenal at talking a subject into the ground until the average John Q. throws up his hands in disgust and lets them have their way.
| 795 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:39:11am |
re: #763 iceweasel
And for those who darkly mutter that Teh WH is looking at your email header!-- you could always delete the info of the person who sent it to you, you know?
Uh.. iw? Buddy? Let's think together about who the "you" is in that sentence.
See the problem?
| 796 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:39:59am |
| 797 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:40:17am |
re: #788 Pianobuff
There's also this...
Little girl at Obama town hall has not-so-random political connections
I'm sure she wrote that question all by herself.
| 798 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:40:29am |
re: #780 jcm
Photo ID to attended a townhall but not to vote!
So true. I was not required to show my ID this past election. People in some other districts were required. Standards varied and I don't know why.
| 799 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:41:07am |
Here's some further reading:
| 800 |
Spider Mensch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:41:09am |
re: #783 jcm
There's a solution... venison steak.
venison tenderloin, grilled on the bbq..that's eating!
| 801 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:41:25am |
High-rise office building window washers have balls, I gotta give 'em that.
| 802 |
theuglydougling Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:41:50am |
re: #787 KenJen
I've tried quite a few things that supposedly work, but to little effect except to temporarily deter. At least it's still growing and trying to produce. So much for trying to save money growing my own! Lesson learned: better planning for next year.
| 803 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:41:57am |
Sometimes I think we can all need the Internet Happy Box.
[Link: comics.com...]
| 804 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:42:00am |
re: #797 MandyManners
I'm sure she wrote that question all by herself.
No help at all. No help at all. I'll just keep saying it and it will become true.
| 805 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:42:02am |
re: #795 Occasional Reader
No where in Douglass' original message does she say to send the contents. She says to send "it", referring to the e-mail, which most people probably understand as "forward".
| 806 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:42:27am |
A little birdie told me this is a golf pun thread.
| 807 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:42:29am |
| 808 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:42:45am |
re: #801 Occasional Reader
High-rise office building window washers have balls, I gotta give 'em that.
They wash with balls?
| 809 |
jcm Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:43:05am |
re: #798 midwestgak
So true. I was not required to show my ID this past election. People in some other districts were required. Standards varied and I don't know why.
Local election boards at the county level set the basic standards, state law also sets standard. Motor voter was a federal initiative, which has numerous problems.
| 810 |
spidly Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:43:25am |
re: #777 theuglydougling
Coyote urine granules to ward off pests: $18
Extra fencing materials to keep out pests: $60
Discovering this morning that suburban deer are still eating my watermelon vines: mind-numbingly, foot-stompingly, vein-poppingly priceless...er, maddening
you can get motion sensor sprinklers. something the size of a deer comes by and the water will come on long enough to do one revolution and scare 'em off.
| 811 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:43:35am |
re: #801 Occasional Reader
High-rise office building window washers have balls, I gotta give 'em that.
Doesn't seem like there would be much room to dance way up there, eh?
| 812 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:43:39am |
| 813 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:43:40am |
re: #806 Occasional Reader
A little birdie told me this is a golf pun thread.
Fore what reason do you believe that?
| 814 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:43:54am |
re: #798 midwestgak
So true. I was not required to show my ID this past election. People in some other districts were required. Standards varied and I don't know why.
Really? That's really bizarre. I guess standards are different in the States. I always have to show ID, proof of address, and a voter card to cast my ballot.
| 815 |
SixDegrees Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:44:06am |
re: #784 3 wood
You understand why those numbers went down, right?
They went down because hundreds of thousands of unemployed people (many more than the 247,000 who lost their jobs) gave up hope ans topped looking for work.
So the fell out of the statistics of people considered in the labor pool.
They gave up hope...
So the ratio got smaller.
That's not a good thing.
Not to mention that employers are simply running out of people to fire.
"WooHoo! This is great news!" isn't my reaction to a quarter million more people hitting the dole.
| 817 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:44:48am |
re: #804 Pianobuff
No help at all. No help at all. I'll just keep saying it and it will become true.
Plant? What plant?
| 818 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:44:53am |
re: #811 Pianobuff
Doesn't seem like there would be much room to dance way up there, eh?
I always fill my ball room, the event is never small
The social pages say I've got the biggest balls of all
| 819 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:44:56am |
re: #795 Occasional Reader
Uh.. iw? Buddy? Let's think together about who the "you" is in that sentence.
See the problem?
No.
"You" here is obviously the collective 'you' (and before people start screaming socialism and collectivism, the term "collective 'you' " is a grammatical term or linguistic term meaning "use of the word 'you' to address a group" ---not a political term, and lacking political connotation.)
| 821 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:45:01am |
re: #806 Occasional Reader
A little birdie told me this is a golf pun thread.
and an eagle ate the birdie
| 822 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:45:07am |
re: #813 Mad Al-Jaffee
Fore what reason do you believe that?
It just fits the facts. Fits 'em to a tee, really.
| 823 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:45:23am |
re: #775 Pianobuff
Anybody see this yet?
BUSTED!: "Obama As Hitler" Poster Was A Democrat/Union Plant At John Dingell Townhall! UPDATED with video interview!
If you read the comments on Free Republican, the black guy holding the sign was not a "Democrat/Union Plant" he was a Lyndon LaRouche supported, and that was the literature he was handing out. Do have another link ?
| 824 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:45:32am |
re: #806 Occasional Reader
A little birdie told me this is a golf pun thread.
If you shoot a few eagles, you will probably have more birdies too.
| 825 |
right_wing2 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:45:35am |
re: #806 Occasional Reader
These comments are so under par for this site
| 826 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:45:52am |
re: #810 spidly
you can get motion sensor sprinklers. something the size of a deer comes by and the water will come on long enough to do one revolution and scare 'em off.
actually there is one that squirts them directly
| 827 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:46:02am |
| 828 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:46:19am |
re: #818 JamesTKirk
I always fill my ball room, the event is never small
The social pages say I've got the biggest balls of all
Upding for AC/DC!
| 829 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:46:20am |
re: #792 opnion
They said to send the 'Chain email" Nothing was said about removing email addresses. You just trust their good intentionns?
You trust paranoid mutterings and fears, rather than the simplest explanation?
Good luck with that.
| 830 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:46:25am |
re: #795 Occasional Reader
Uh.. iw? Buddy? Let's think together about who the "you" is in that sentence.
See the problem?
Bingo! If you would actually forward the email to the WH, you are in the tank for Obama. Why would you delete the email addresses?
it is pathetic to think that they need these email , so that they can be aware of the objections. What flavor is todays Kool Aid?
| 831 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:47:17am |
re: #784 3 wood
You understand why those numbers went down, right?
They went down because hundreds of thousands of unemployed people (many more than the 247,000 who lost their jobs) gave up hope ans topped looking for work.
So the fell out of the statistics of people considered in the labor pool.
They gave up hope...
The numbers have to be compared to previous numbers, and that adjustment game has been played for decades.
So the ratio got smaller.
That's not a good thing.
| 832 |
right_wing2 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:47:20am |
re: #819 iceweasel
No.
"You" here is obviously the collective 'you' (and before people start screaming socialism and collectivism, the term "collective 'you' " is a grammatical term or linguistic term meaning "use of the word 'you' to address a group" ---not a political term, and lacking political connotation.)
'You' = y'all
| 833 |
Creeping Eruption Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:47:24am |
| 834 |
jcm Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:47:30am |
re: #784 3 wood
You understand why those numbers went down, right?
They went down because hundreds of thousands of unemployed people (many more than the 247,000 who lost their jobs) gave up hope ans topped looking for work.
So the fell out of the statistics of people considered in the labor pool.
They gave up hope...
So the ratio got smaller.
That's not a good thing.
Actual Unemployment Rate Rises To 16.5%
The nation's official unemployment rate in June rose from 9.4 to 9.5 percent, its highest in 26 years.How bad is that? Pretty bad, writes Heidi Shierholz of the Economic Policy Institute: "This is the only recession1 since the Great Depression to wipe out all jobs growth from the previous business cycle, a testament both to the enormity of the current crisis and to the extreme weakness of jobs growth over the business cycle from 2000 to 2007."
Ouch. But it's even worse than that.
As we like to note at The Ticker, the nation's actual unemployment rate in June rose from 16.4 to 16.5 percent, the highest figure by far since the Bureau of Labor Statistics began keeping the data in 1994.
What is the difference between the two, aside from a higher degree of misery?
The lower figure includes only those whom the Labor Department includes in the way it figures its official unemployment data, a process we explained here.
But that figure does not include "discouraged" Americans -- those who have given up looking for work. It also does not include part-timers or others who are "marginally attached" to the labor force, as the Labor Department's Bureau of Labor Statistics puts it.
| 835 |
jdog29 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:47:38am |
re: #816 jcm
Did I shank that one into the Woods?
Single payer, socialized medicine, Dr. shortages/ Clinic/ Hospital shortages are the hole in one the Obama administration is shooting for from the red tee box from 90 yds.
If they get it on the green, they'll get it in the hole soon enough.
| 836 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:47:43am |
re: #830 opnion
Bingo! If you would actually forward the email to the WH, you are in the tank for Obama. Why would you delete the email addresses?
it is pathetic to think that they need these email , so that they can be aware of the objections. What flavor is todays Kool Aid?
Ok, continue to believe it's Obama collating an enemies list, in the face of rationality and all evidence to the contrary.
| 837 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:47:49am |
re: #796 Kenneth
Socialized medicine is by definition rationed. It's inescapable.
Oh, that's a given in my mind.
In fact you have rationing in some form or other regardless, whether it be by the price and free market decisions make by the consumer, or by the government telling you what you can and can't do.
I prefer to make my own decisions.
Others may want the nanny-state to make their decisions for them.
| 838 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:47:58am |
re: #812 Occasional Reader
Ball-washer... we're back to the golf puns?
There's a pun about Big Bertha I'm dying to make but, I'll refrain.
| 839 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:47:58am |
| 840 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:48:06am |
| 841 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:48:07am |
re: #833 Creeping Eruption
Get current. This is a golf pun thread.
And the reference to "balls" doesn't have any relevance to golf?
| 842 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:48:09am |
re: #822 Occasional Reader
It just fits the facts. Fits 'em to a tee, really.
Then it's probably not a wedge issue.
| 843 |
theuglydougling Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:48:23am |
I'll soon discover a fairway to deal with my gardening issues.
| 844 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:48:52am |
re: #842 Spare O'Lake
Then it's probably not a wedge issue.
Someone should cart all of these puns away.
| 845 |
formercorpsman Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:49:33am |
re: #837 3 wood
No different than when Social Security adjusts the age requirement.
| 846 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:49:34am |
re: #836 iceweasel
Ok, continue to believe it's Obama collating an enemies list, in the face of rationality and all evidence to the contrary.
There actually is no evidence to the contrary whatsoever.
We don't know for a fact that he is, you don't know for a fact that he isn't.
But it cannot be rationally or honestly denied that the potential is there; it's also debatable as to the motivation being there as well.
| 848 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:49:50am |
re: #841 JamesTKirk
And the reference to "balls" doesn't have any relevance to golf?
are there any links to that?
| 849 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:49:52am |
re: #844 Mad Al-Jaffee
Someone should cart all of these puns away.
But, but, we are divot-ed to them...
| 850 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:50:00am |
re: #819 iceweasel
No.
Then I'll explain it to you. Let's go back to my hypothetical Bush example. It's 2004, and the whitehouse.gov website has asked that if anyone gets an e-mail containing "fishy" information about the reasons for going to war, they should send "it" to a "flag" address. That is, forward the e-mail (most reasonable interpretation).
So, iceweasel@yawhoo?.com just sent occasionareader@gee,mail!.com a "fishy" e-mail about the Iraq War. And OR is getting ready to forward it to the White House. Oh, but don't worry! Because "you"... Occasional Reader... can always delete i.w.'s address from what you forward! But then again... maybe "you" won't. And iceweasel - the one who's being snitched on, remember her? - has no control over that.
So you really didn't understand that tiny conceptual problem with your "you can always..." post? Or were you being deliberately obtuse?
| 851 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:50:08am |
re: #838 MandyManners
There's a pun about Big Bertha I'm dying to make but, I'll refrain.
Yes, please Callaway the Big Bertha puns.
| 852 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:50:17am |
re: #838 MandyManners
There's a pun about Big Bertha I'm dying to make but, I'll refrain.
Yes refrain. You don't want to hazard that topic.
| 853 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:50:35am |
re: #848 apachegunner
are there any links to that?
Well played.
Now I'm off to join a foursome of my own.
...in bed.
| 854 |
Creeping Eruption Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:51:11am |
re: #841 JamesTKirk
And the reference to "balls" doesn't have any relevance to golf?
AC/DC - "current" Get it? Ha ha ?
| 855 |
jcm Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:51:49am |
| 856 |
Flyers1974 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:52:25am |
re: #643 MandyManners
Oh, yeah. I was quite the little Commie.
Wow. I never would have guessed that piece of trivia. At least you were into something. When I was growing up, I don't recall any of my friends or myself for that matter having any political opinions. I knew who the president was and probably his party but that's about it.
| 857 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:52:38am |
re: #818 JamesTKirk
I always fill my ball room, the event is never small
The social pages say I've got the biggest balls of all
Are you just itching to tell us about them?
| 858 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:52:59am |
re: #829 iceweasel
You trust paranoid mutterings and fears, rather than the simplest explanation?
Good luck with that.
Come on, if it was a Republican Administration doing this you would freak.
It violates the 1974 Privacy Act, but so what?
In your mind it is just paranoia not to want this snitch program?
pretty polyannish, good luck with that.
| 859 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:53:15am |
re: #837 3 wood
Oh, that's a given in my mind.
In fact you have rationing in some form or other regardless, whether it be by the price and free market decisions make by the consumer, or by the government telling you what you can and can't do.
I prefer to make my own decisions.
Others may want the nanny-state to make their decisions for them.
Will Americans be happy to be told, "Sorry, you can't have your operation this year. We already filled our gov't quota for that procedure. But don't worry, you're on the list for next year! (If you are still alive, that is.)"...?
Because that scenario is a reality up here in Canada.
| 860 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:53:49am |
Simple fact is that people rarely if ever delete email addresses from chain mails that they forward; you often have to read through several levels of attributions before you get to the meat of the article.
Most people just don't know or care, and simply hit the forward button. There's your "simplest explanation" right there -- why would they go to all the extra trouble of deleting addresses and headers if they haven't been asked to and it doesn't occur to them?
The majority of the letters forwarded to the White House will have all headers intact, because the snitch will follow the route of least effort and simply hit the forward button.
| 861 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:54:10am |
| 862 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:54:20am |
re: #858 opnion
Come on, if it was a Republican Administration doing this you would freak.
It violates the 1974 Privacy Act, but so what?
In your mind it is just paranoia not to want this snitch program?
pretty polyannish, good luck with that.
That's because you can't trust Republican administrations to do the right thing. Democrats on the other hand are trustworthy with that info.
//
| 863 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:54:40am |
re: #846 JamesTKirk
There actually is no evidence to the contrary whatsoever.
We don't know for a fact that he is
It is insane and irrational for anyone to believe this.
The claim "we don't know for a fact that he is, therefore we can't rule it out" is JUST as insane as the worst of the left believing insanity of Bush.
It's also like nirthers-- "we don't know for a fact that Obama wasn't born in kenya, therefore we can't rule it out".
| 864 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:54:58am |
re: #861 Kenneth
I'll hazard a guess there are...
You got a lotta sand posting something like that, mister.
| 865 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:55:01am |
| 866 |
jcm Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:55:17am |
re: #862 rwdflynavy
That's because you can't trust Republican administrations to do the right thing. Democrats on the other hand are trustworthy with that info.
//
900 FBI files were just an accidental oversight.
///
| 867 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:55:51am |
| 868 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:55:56am |
re: #831 avanti
The numbers have to be compared to previous numbers, and that adjustment game has been played for decades.
They don't "adjust" for people who fell out of the the labor pool cause they quit looking. In almost any well taught macroeconomic class they will go over this anomaly in how unemployment numbers are calculated and remind you that in a recession you have to watch for this effect.
I assume that you are not familiar with how unemployment numbers are tallied.
| 869 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:56:02am |
| 870 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:56:06am |
re: #864 Occasional Reader
You got a lotta sand posting something like that, mister.
Trying to trap me?
| 871 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:56:41am |
re: #858 opnion
Come on, if it was a Republican Administration doing this you would freak.
.
False.
I've said before I have no problem with this and I'd have had none if Bush did it-- and civil liberties happens to be my main issue. I have many criticisms of Obama on that front (and bush) but this isn't one of them.
This is paranoia and kook fodder.
| 872 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:56:54am |
re: #836 iceweasel
Ok, continue to believe it's Obama collating an enemies list, in the face of rationality and all evidence to the contrary.
It would not be the first time that a President collected an enemies list, but you must be aware of that.
Rationality tells you that a pol from the Chicago political Machine would not do that? Come on, school's out.
| 873 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:56:57am |
re: #859 Kenneth
Will Americans be happy to be told, "Sorry, you can't have your operation this year. We already filled our gov't quota for that procedure. But don't worry, you're on the list for next year! (If you are still alive, that is.)"...?
Because that scenario is a reality up here in Canada.
That shot is way out of bounds.
| 874 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:57:28am |
re: #860 JamesTKirk
Simple fact is that people rarely if ever delete email addresses from chain mails that they forward; you often have to read through several levels of attributions before you get to the meat of the article.
Most people just don't know or care, and simply hit the forward button. There's your "simplest explanation" right there -- why would they go to all the extra trouble of deleting addresses and headers if they haven't been asked to and it doesn't occur to them?
The majority of the letters forwarded to the White House will have all headers intact, because the snitch will follow the route of least effort and simply hit the forward button.
So the government will get my e-mail ? I'm pretty sure they have more data than that on me.
| 875 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:57:58am |
re: #817 MandyManners
Plant? What plant?
re: #823 avanti
If you read the comments on Free Republican, the black guy holding the sign was not a "Democrat/Union Plant" he was a Lyndon LaRouche supported, and that was the literature he was handing out. Do have another link ?
That's the link I have. There's a Fox clip on it, there. If it's a bigger story I'm sure more will come out. If not, well then that's it.
Yes, one commenter says that and is shouted down by some others. Are you suggesting that Free Republic commenters are the most reliable sources of information?
Anyway, if there's nothing to it, you probably won't hear much more. Otherwise...
| 876 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:58:14am |
| 877 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:58:27am |
re: #857 MandyManners
This video is like Anti-matter to AC/DC. Click on it only if you have no sense of decency or respect for the great Aussie band:
| 878 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:58:37am |
re: #860 JamesTKirk
Simple fact is that people rarely if ever delete email addresses from chain mails that they forward; you often have to read through several levels of attributions before you get to the meat of the article.
Most people just don't know or care, and simply hit the forward button. There's your "simplest explanation" right there -- why would they go to all the extra trouble of deleting addresses and headers if they haven't been asked to and it doesn't occur to them?
The majority of the letters forwarded to the White House will have all headers intact, because the snitch will follow the route of least effort and simply hit the forward button.
Better said than my No. 805.
| 879 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:58:41am |
re: #866 jcm
900 FBI files were just an accidental oversight.
///
yeah, and the one that had them, larry craig, is a big guy in the nobama whitehouse
| 880 |
Honorary Yooper Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:58:51am |
re: #846 JamesTKirk
There actually is no evidence to the contrary whatsoever.
We don't know for a fact that he is, you don't know for a fact that he isn't.
But it cannot be rationally or honestly denied that the potential is there; it's also debatable as to the motivation being there as well.
Not just the potential for an "enemies list", but also the precident. Richard Nixon was well known to have such a list even while president. Does this mean Obama has such a list? No, but the potential and precident exist for such a list. It is quite probable that previous presidents had lists and we just don't know about them.
| 881 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:58:54am |
re: #864 Occasional Reader
You got a lotta sand posting something like that, mister.
You got a chip on your shoulder, buddy?
| 882 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:59:02am |
re: #872 opnion
It would not be the first time that a President collected an enemies list, but you must be aware of that.
Rationality tells you that a pol from the Chicago political Machine would not do that? Come on, school's out.
Yep, and rationality apparently also tells iceweasel that even though this system is designed to make putting together a database of domestic policy opponents as easy as falling off a log, those sweet, innocent angels like Rahm Emmanuel would never dream of stooping to such a thing. Heavens, no.
| 883 |
3 wood Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:59:18am |
re: #859 Kenneth
Because that scenario is a reality up here in Canada.
Same in Ireland too. I know that for a fact, cause I've had family come here and pay cash for surgery, life saving surgery and rehabilitate with us, cause in Ireland they were told it would be 2 to 3 year wait.
| 885 |
KenJen Wed, Aug 12, 2009 7:59:44am |
re: #843 theuglydougling
I'll soon discover a fairway to deal with my gardening issues.
Don't be so rough on yourself.
| 886 |
KingKenrod Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:00:11am |
re: #871 iceweasel
False.
I've said before I have no problem with this and I'd have had none if Bush did it-- and civil liberties happens to be my main issue. I have many criticisms of Obama on that front (and bush) but this isn't one of them.
This is paranoia and kook fodder.
Does the fact that someone might report your activities to the White House make you more or less likely to engage in free speech in opposition to White House policies?
| 887 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:00:18am |
re: #882 Occasional Reader
Hey! Rahm is from Chicago and they have a well known reputation for straight talk and clean living...oh wait.
| 888 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:00:24am |
| 889 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:00:26am |
re: #874 avanti
So the government will get my e-mail ? I'm pretty sure they have more data than that on me.
Donwding for being deliberately obtuse (a lot of that going around this moring, it seems).
Yes, the government has all sorts of information about you. The question is, do they have you marked down in a file somewhere as an opponent of a policy agenda. Different question, ya know? (Yes, I think you do, but decided to pretend you didn't.)
| 890 |
quickjustice Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:00:49am |
re: #726 iceweasel
It's a distinction without a difference, Weasel. By law, the White House must preserve a record of all information it receives. If it seeks to collect the identities of people exercising their First Amendment rights, it is violating the Privacy Act. So by requesting the identities of people who are exercising their First Amendment rights to express opinions opposing the health care "reform"proposals, the White House violates either one law or the other.
Is it: (a) retaining the records it is required to retain by law; or (b) illegally collecting the identities of protesters?
I really like to know how the White House is NOT violating the law under these circumstances? Is it deleting the names of protesters it is receiving in violation of law? Or is it retaining them, also in violation of law?
| 891 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:01:42am |
re: #872 opnion
If you want to have a go at Obama over potential invasions of privacy and violations of executive power, I strongly suggest looking at the recent filing his DOJ made to extend the State Secrets act last week.
But you'd rather breathe in the right-wing glue and pretend this benign request is evidence of a conspiracy and an enemies list.
| 892 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:01:42am |
re: #886 KingKenrod
Does the fact that someone might report your activities to the White House make you more or less likely to engage in free speech in opposition to White House policies?
Given that they're probably filtering through thousands of prank/false emails a day, and then having to send those through the proper authorities etc., not really.
I'd think the most they'd drop on a 'flagged' person is a bunch of pro-USCare agitprop.
| 894 |
right_wing2 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:01:59am |
re: #856 Flyers1974
First 'grown up' magazine I read was my dad's 'Human Events' newsletter. I don't think I was much more than about 12 when I started reading it.
| 895 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:02:13am |
re: #874 avanti
So the government will get my e-mail ? I'm pretty sure they have more data than that on me.
THAT'S NOT THE FUCKING POINT.
| 896 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:02:14am |
| 897 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:02:15am |
Apologies to anybody who clicked on that Celine Dion video. Here is the antidote:
| 898 |
KenJen Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:02:22am |
| 899 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:02:51am |
re: #863 iceweasel
It is insane and irrational for anyone to believe this.
That is an opinion, which is a far cry from your earlier statement about "evidence to the contrary". There is no evidence to the contrary.
The claim "we don't know for a fact that he is, therefore we can't rule it out" is JUST as insane as the worst of the left believing insanity of Bush.
The potential for abuse is there, and the administration has already squandered the right to be given the benefit of the doubt or trust when it comes to heavy-handedless, dishonesty, and dirty tricks. No, I do not know for a fact that the WH is compiling an enemy's list (note that there are multiple historical precedents of other administrations doing so), but I certainly have a right to be concerned and to voice those concerns. This whole exercise stinks, and reeks of the semblence of impropriety regardless of the presence of actual propriety. It's a bad move, badly explained, badly handled, and needs to be taken down.
It's also like nirthers-- "we don't know for a fact that Obama wasn't born in kenya, therefore we can't rule it out".
Nice attempt to -- once again -- lump anyone you disagree with (or who disagrees with Obama) in with the nirthers. But there is capability and precedent aplenty here, and no evidence to contrary whatsoever (which does exist in the case of the nirthers; but they, like you, are simply willing to ignore anything that disagrees with their fantasy world).
Guess I'm done talking to you again.
| 900 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:03:18am |
re: #875 Pianobuff
That's the link I have. There's a Fox clip on it, there. If it's a bigger story I'm sure more will come out. If not, well then that's it.
Yes, one commenter says that and is shouted down by some others. Are you suggesting that Free Republic commenters are the most reliable sources of information?
Anyway, if there's nothing to it, you probably won't hear much more. Otherwise...
It could be the stone-cold truth but the MFM will ignore it.
| 901 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:03:41am |
Now Ice, is it ganging up if you have 8 different disagreements going at the same time and 8 people saying you are being deliberately obtuse? Not getting personally nasty, just disagreeing? You are a very active member here and are not shy about saying when you think certain posters are wrong, correct?
| 902 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:04:50am |
re: #882 Occasional Reader
Yep, and rationality apparently also tells iceweasel that even though this system is designed to make putting together a database of domestic policy opponents as easy as falling off a log, those sweet, innocent angels like Rahm Emmanuel would never dream of stooping to such a thing. Heavens, no.
Not at all.
I pointed out the purpose of this request was likely to put together a webpage (and probably a mass email) refuting the most common lies.
Whaddaya know, it happened.
I pointed out that if you're worried about government intrusion into privacy and your affairs, there are vastly more serious issues to be looking at.
Whaddaya know, I'm right about that too.
But by all means, fulminate over this instead. Yeah, that's useful.
| 903 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:05:04am |
| 904 |
SurferDoc Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:05:09am |
Anyone who is not suspicious of any government gathering information about dissenters has not been paying attention.
A little bit of paranoia is good. It keeps you safe.
| 905 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:05:30am |
re: #875 Pianobuff
That's the link I have. There's a Fox clip on it, there. If it's a bigger story I'm sure more will come out. If not, well then that's it.
Yes, one commenter says that and is shouted down by some others. Are you suggesting that Free Republic commenters are the most reliable sources of information?
Anyway, if there's nothing to it, you probably won't hear much more. Otherwise...
I was immediately suspicious because there was no link to the black guy handing out the "Dingle campaign literature" talked about on Free Republic, that was spun into union thug. The fact that the Freepur's are questioning their own rumor, gives me pause.
| 906 |
KenJen Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:05:32am |
re: #891 iceweasel
If you want to have a go at Obama over potential invasions of privacy and violations of executive power, I strongly suggest looking at the recent filing his DOJ made to extend the State Secrets act last week.
But you'd rather breathe in the right-wing glue and pretend this benign request is evidence of a conspiracy and an enemies list.
Come on ice. You've got to admit it's kind of weird.
| 907 |
yma o hyd Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:05:45am |
Hiya, Lizard Nation!
How are things?
And before you ask - yep, its cool and damp here, yet again!
(Well, its got this one advantage: it keeps Madame's fur nice, clean and fluffy!)
| 908 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:05:47am |
re: #862 rwdflynavy
That's because you can't trust Republican administrations to do the right thing. Democrats on the other hand are trustworthy with that info.
//
(forehead slap) Thats the answer!
| 909 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:05:48am |
re: #899 JamesTKirk
That is an opinion, which is a far cry from your earlier statement about "evidence to the contrary". There is no evidence to the contrary.
For Christmas, I say we all chip in and buy iceweasel some nice, lightweight, carbon-fiber, highly portable goalposts.
| 910 |
jcm Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:06:04am |
flag@whitehouse.com
Stukach.
When was the last time an administration solicited information on sources of opinions contrary to the WH agenda?
| 911 |
KingKenrod Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:06:11am |
re: #892 laZardo
Given that they're probably filtering through thousands of prank/false emails a day, and then having to send those through the proper authorities etc., not really.
I'd think the most they'd drop on a 'flagged' person is a bunch of pro-USCare agitprop.
You don't know exactly what they are doing with the information. I'm talking about the perception of what they might be doing and how that perception effects the actions of the Presidents opponents.
| 912 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:06:15am |
re: #898 KenJen
Your gonna have to splain that one to me Gak.
What a gaff. Spin it any way you like. Head hanging low for a few seconds.
I'm alright now.
| 913 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:06:32am |
Officials see rise in militia groups across US
Militia groups with gripes against the government are regrouping across the country and could grow rapidly, according to an organization that tracks such trends.
The stress of a poor economy and a liberal administration led by a black president are among the causes for the recent rise, the report from the Southern Poverty Law Center says. Conspiracy theories about a secret Mexican plan to reclaim the Southwest are also growing amid the public debate about illegal immigration.
| 915 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:08:01am |
re: #899 JamesTKirk
Nice attempt to -- once again -- lump anyone you disagree with (or who disagrees with Obama) in with the nirthers. But there is capability and precedent aplenty here, and no evidence to contrary whatsoever (which does exist in the case of the nirthers; but they, like you, are simply willing to ignore anything that disagrees with their fantasy world).
Guess I'm done talking to you again.
That's a shock. I guess you'll go back to stealth downdinging me again. :)
BTW, I assume you're fully aware of the various civil liberties violations the Bush Admin committed, and you protested that vigorously-- and you're aware of the ones Obama has committed?
Or you get your ideas and opinions from random cobbled together shit you hear from places like Hot Air. So you're convinced this email list is the worstest thing EVAR!, right?
Yeah, I'd say we're done. Carry on!
| 916 |
bloodnok Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:08:01am |
re: #901 Spenser (with an S)
Now Ice, is it ganging up if you have 8 different disagreements going at the same time and 8 people saying you are being deliberately obtuse? Not getting personally nasty, just disagreeing? You are a very active member here and are not shy about saying when you think certain posters are wrong, correct?
It doesn't mean they're right, btw. "Deliberately obtuse" just happens to be the current favorite way of saying "I don't agree with you" (along with "goalpost moving!11!1!"). But it sounds teh smart.
| 917 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:08:38am |
re: #902 iceweasel
I pointed out the purpose of this request was likely to put together a webpage (and probably a mass email) refuting the most common lies.
Whaddaya know, it happened.
Wow, you're a genius!
Or not. Like I said before, NOBODY SAID THAT THE CONTENT OF THE E-MAILS WOULD BE IGNORED. Stop being mendacious.
I pointed out that if you're worried about government intrusion into privacy and your affairs, there are vastly more serious issues to be looking at.
Whaddaya know, I'm right about that too.
Good grief.
"I expressed my opinion... and, waddya know, in my opinion, my opinion was 'right'!"
| 918 |
quickjustice Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:08:56am |
Look, the big picture issue in health care is the $38 trillion unfunded liability of Medicare. I asked repeatedly how Lizards would propose to address that, and I've received no credible responses.
Four possibilities occur to me:
1. Replace Medicare and Medicaid with health vouchers for the poor, turning the program into a means-tested entitlement.
2. Jack up taxes to cover the $38 trillion hole.
3. Reduce benefits paid by Medicare by $38 trillion.
4. Some combination of the three.
Obama's plan is: mandate citizen participation in some health care plan to eliminate free-riding; increase taxes to pay for it; reduce Medicare benefits to cover the shortfall. Because there is no final proposed bill, no one knows how this might operate.
| 919 |
yma o hyd Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:09:13am |
re: #904 SurferDoc
Anyone who is not suspicious of any government gathering information about dissenters has not been paying attention.
A little bit of paranoia is good. It keeps you safe.
Dissenters - hah!
What about a government collecting all sorts of information about all its citizens?
Thats what NuLab is aiming to do, with their 'Identity Card' scheme for all of us ...
Good thing they are so utterly inept at getting vast IT projects to work!
General election can't come soon enough for us!
| 920 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:09:16am |
re: #909 Occasional Reader
For Christmas, I say we all chip in and buy iceweasel some nice, lightweight, carbon-fiber, highly portable goalposts.
If we all chip in, then we won't need to worry about the short putts.
| 921 |
lincolntf Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:09:24am |
Heh. The Boston Herald sent a few reporters to Obama's Faux Town Hall meeting yeterday, and they're all pretty much laughing at how obviously phony and self-serving the whole production was.
Herald articles
| 922 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:09:46am |
re: #910 jcm
flag@whitehouse.com
Stukach.
When was the last time an administration solicited information on sources of opinions contrary to the WH agenda?
If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov.
There is nothing about sending only the contents. Nothing.
[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]
| 923 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:09:50am |
| 924 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:10:15am |
re: #900 MandyManners
It could be the stone-cold truth but the MFM will ignore it.
Mobys would be an inconvenient truth. This is just one report though. My guess is that some in the right blogosphere are tracking it down. If there's more we'll hear about it one way or another.
| 925 |
jcm Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:10:25am |
re: #921 lincolntf
Heh. The Boston Herald sent a few reporters to Obama's Faux Town Hall meeting yeterday, and they're all pretty much laughing at how obviously phony and self-serving the whole production was.
Herald articles
Uh, Oh, folks are looking behind the fronts of Obama's Potemkin Village.
| 926 |
yma o hyd Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:10:46am |
re: #914 MandyManners
YMA!
Hiya, Mandy!
Hows that son of yours?
And is the buzzer on the dryer still working?
:-)
| 927 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:10:48am |
re: #874 avanti
So the government will get my e-mail ? I'm pretty sure they have more data than that on me.
But a negative email from you about the ONE is different.
Dissent will not be tolerated or what part about Obama's quit talking didn't you get?
| 928 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:10:59am |
re: #889 Occasional Reader
Donwding for being deliberately obtuse (a lot of that going around this moring, it seems).
Yes, the government has all sorts of information about you. The question is, do they have you marked down in a file somewhere as an opponent of a policy agenda. Different question, ya know? (Yes, I think you do, but decided to pretend you didn't.)
It's just silly, the WH must know about half the country is potentially a enemy. The "enemies list" is just a far out concept to spin from a request to respond to web rumors.
| 929 |
spidly Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:11:40am |
re: #918 quickjustice
Look, the big picture issue in health care is the $38 trillion unfunded liability of Medicare. I asked repeatedly how Lizards would propose to address that, and I've received no credible responses.
Four possibilities occur to me:
1. Replace Medicare and Medicaid with health vouchers for the poor, turning the program into a means-tested entitlement.
2. Jack up taxes to cover the $38 trillion hole.
3. Reduce benefits paid by Medicare by $38 trillion.
4. Some combination of the three.
Obama's plan is: mandate citizen participation in some health care plan to eliminate free-riding; increase taxes to pay for it; reduce Medicare benefits to cover the shortfall. Because there is no final proposed bill, no one knows how this might operate.
you are assuming jacking up taxes will raise revenues.
| 930 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:11:58am |
Are we still debating about the white house collecting information on healtcare reform critics? I thought this was already settled.
| 931 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:12:12am |
re: #906 KenJen
Come on ice. You've got to admit it's kind of weird.
No. I don't.
As Charles has also said, this is nothing more than an extension of the tactics that Obama used, very successfully, during his campaign to combat the rumours and lies of the moment.
Seriously, if people want to accuse the Obama admin of civil liberties violations, I daresay you'd find almost no-one here better informed than I, or more willing to support that.
This kind of crazed rumour is a problem, in that it undermines serious criticism of his admin on that issue.
| 932 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:12:14am |
re: #905 avanti
My previous comments stand.
BTW, Obama's approval is down to 48% Approve 52% Disapprove.
That's the Rasmussen poll which uses a likely voter model. Rasmussen was spot on in predicting last year's presidential election.
| 933 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:12:17am |
re: #916 bloodnok
It doesn't mean they're right, btw. "Deliberately obtuse" just happens to be the current favorite way of saying "I don't agree with you"
?? No, it doesn't mean they're right or wrong, I wanted to get Ice to understand that she very actively pursues these discussions, that's all. And "deliberately obtuse", as I understand it, means the person is smart enough to understand, but is obviously refusing to.
| 934 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:12:43am |
re: #911 KingKenrod
You don't know exactly what they are doing with the information. I'm talking about the perception of what they might be doing and how that perception effects the actions of the Presidents opponents.
Oddly enough, I half agree. They could really be doing nothing more than dropping crates of agitprop flyers on people's mailboxes. Still, I doubt it will stop people from abusing flag@whitehouse.gov to "punk" others and it won't stop people from perceiving that Obama's trying to clamp down on opposition.
Perceptions being held by the one who perceives, that's their right.
| 935 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:12:55am |
re: #928 avanti
It's just silly, the WH must know about half the country is potentially a enemy. The "enemies list" is just a far out concept to spin from a request to respond to web rumors.
the enemies list will be provided to the death panel
| 936 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:12:55am |
re: #917 Occasional Reader
Thanks for calling me mendacious. I feel justified in completely ignoring you from now on.
| 937 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:13:46am |
re: #910 jcm
flag@whitehouse.com
Stukach.
When was the last time an administration solicited information on sources of opinions contrary to the WH agenda?
Hope and change We've never seen the level of interaction with the voters after the campaign we are seeing now. Obama may be the first to do it, but he won't be the last.
| 938 |
jcm Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:13:55am |
re: #922 MandyManners
If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov.
There is nothing about sending only the contents. Nothing.
[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]
Recruiting stukachs to out the sources...
| 939 |
yma o hyd Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:13:57am |
re: #925 jcm
Uh, Oh, folks are looking behind the fronts of Obama's Potemkin Village.
Well i never! Doubting one's overlords! Whatever next ...
Good thing this isn't Russia at the time of Potemkin - real heads would really roll for this impertinence!
;-)
| 940 |
quickjustice Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:14:21am |
re: #902 iceweasel
You may have noticed the Obama proposal to change the way the federal government uses cookies it places on computers visiting government websites. It will entail the collection about far more data about visitors.
You're really making "silo" argument about White House data collection practices without looking at the larger picture. If you really care about civil rights, you should be paying more attention to intrusive new Obama Administration omnibus data collection practices.
| 941 |
KingKenrod Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:14:38am |
The AARP must be catching hell from their members. After months of running pro-Obama, pro-Dem plan propaganda like what you find at their site [Link: www.healthactionnow.org...] , they are now publicly trying to dissassociate themselves with the President.
[Link: www.google.com...]
| 942 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:15:31am |
re: #915 iceweasel
That's a shock. I guess you'll go back to stealth downdinging me again. :)
'Tain't stealth downdinging when I publicly express my disagreement with you and explain why I disagree with what you're saying (unless your definition of "stealth" is "anything less subtle than a neon-light-encrusted sledgehammer"). That's pretty much the specific standard operating policy for how to use downdings.
Plus, the definition of "stealth downdinging", as used by Charles and others yesterday, is the practice of going back into old threads and downdinging, where the recipient will most likely never see the downdings, nor who gave them (not to mention the usage of sock puppets to perform the task).
None of this applies to me, but then again, this is reality and you're in your own fantasy world.
| 943 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:15:36am |
re: #891 iceweasel
If you want to have a go at Obama over potential invasions of privacy and violations of executive power, I strongly suggest looking at the recent filing his DOJ made to extend the State Secrets act last week.
But you'd rather breathe in the right-wing glue and pretend this benign request is evidence of a conspiracy and an enemies list.
God you're insulting. Right wing glue? You constantly set up straw men to attack. If someone says A, you address B as if that was actually said.
It is a very dishonest debating technique & not effective.Have another glass of Kool Aid.
| 944 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:15:44am |
re: #925 jcm
Uh, Oh, folks are looking behind the fronts of Obama's Potemkin Village.
Just how disturbing is it for a President to hold a "town meeting" deliberately packed with supporters, then make a big show toward the end of trying to solicit a question from an opponent (when he knew there would be none)? I usually don't like to make these comparisons, but it's rather creepily Stalinesque. "See? Everyone loves me! There is no opposition to the correct path."
| 945 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:15:58am |
re: #936 iceweasel
Thanks for calling me mendacious. I feel justified in completely ignoring you from now on.
On a side note, I had to look that up.
/Verbal wasn't the strong subject on my SAT I.
| 947 |
apachegunner Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:16:06am |
re: #940 quickjustice
You may have noticed the Obama proposal to change the way the federal government uses cookies it places on computers visiting government websites. It will entail the collection about far more data about visitors.
You're really making "silo" argument about White House data collection practices without looking at the larger picture. If you really care about civil rights, you should be paying more attention to intrusive new Obama Administration omnibus data collection practices.
and spyware is a close relative of the cookie, is that next?
| 948 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:16:17am |
re: #901 Spenser (with an S)
Now Ice, is it ganging up if you have 8 different disagreements going at the same time and 8 people saying you are being deliberately obtuse?
Yes, it is ganging up.
Disagree all you like, but accusing me of being 'mendacious' (as someone else has) or "deliberately obtuse" IS being personally nasty.
| 949 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:16:17am |
re: #936 iceweasel
Thanks for calling me mendacious. I feel justified in completely ignoring you from now on.
It could've been worse, you know.
At least he didn't call you a liar.
*rimshot*
| 950 |
KingKenrod Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:16:36am |
re: #930 Killgore Trout
Are we still debating about the white house collecting information on healtcare reform critics? I thought this was already settled.
And what was the outcome? Please let me know.
| 951 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:16:41am |
re: #916 bloodnok
It doesn't mean they're right, btw. "Deliberately obtuse" just happens to be the current favorite way of saying "I don't agree with you" (along with "goalpost moving!11!1!"). But it sounds teh smart.
Um, no, it's the current favorite way of referring to someone who's making a ridiculous strawman argument, when he/she is smart enough to know better.
| 952 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:16:51am |
re: #926 yma o hyd
Hiya, Mandy!
Hows that son of yours?
And is the buzzer on the dryer still working?:-)
He's back in school and the summer seems to have matured him a bit--getting ready in the morning no longer is like pulling elephant's teeth.
I wish you hadn't mentioned the dryer. I did laundry yesterday and gotta' do more today.
| 953 |
quickjustice Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:17:10am |
re: #929 spidly
Nope. I'm assuming nothing. I'm asking what YOU would do about the $38 trillion unfunded liability.
| 954 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:17:12am |
re: #941 KingKenrod
The AARP must be catching hell from their members. After months of running pro-Obama, pro-Dem plan propaganda like what you find at their site [Link: www.healthactionnow.org...] , they are now publicly trying to dissassociate themselves with the President.
[Link: www.google.com...]
Wait a second. That doesn't make sense. Obama yesterday said that AARP was on board with his healthcare plan. I'm assuming they endorsed it. Am I wrong?
| 955 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:17:36am |
re: #936 iceweasel
Thanks for calling me mendacious. I feel justified in completely ignoring you from now on.
Oh noes!
I actually used to like chatting with you, iceweasel, but you've quickly turned into one of the most dishonest debaters I've seen at LGF.
| 956 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:17:53am |
re: #951 Occasional Reader
Um, no, it's the current favorite way of referring to someone who's making a ridiculous strawman argument, when he/she is smart enough to know better.
Oh bullshit. It's like accusing people of making a 'strawman' argument, when what is meant is "I can't refute you and I don't even know what strawman means!"
Ok, back to ignoring you.
| 957 |
bloodnok Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:18:05am |
re: #951 Occasional Reader
Um, no, it's the current favorite way of referring to someone who's making a ridiculous strawman argument, when he/she is smart enough to know better.
"Strawman!11!" I forgot that one. Thanks!
| 958 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:18:10am |
Anybody who is so paranoid as to be worried about the government collecting personal information about you is obviously committing a thought crime and should be reported to the authorities immediately.
/(that's a sarc tag, for iceweasel's benefit)
| 959 |
wrenchwench Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:18:17am |
re: #931 iceweasel
This kind of crazed rumour is a problem, in that it undermines serious criticism of his admin on that issue.
Is there a place to which we can report that?
/
| 960 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:18:25am |
re: #930 Killgore Trout
Are we still debating about the white house collecting information on healtcare reform critics? I thought this was already settled.
By whom?
| 961 |
jcm Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:18:44am |
re: #937 avanti
Hope and change We've never seen the level of interaction with the voters after the campaign we are seeing now. Obama may be the first to do it, but he won't be the last.
Interaction...
I just want to put everybody on notice, because there was a lot of chatter during the week that I was gone: We are going to get this done. Inaction is not an option.
“I don’t want the folks who created the mess do a lot of talking. I want them to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess. I don’t mind cleaning up after them, but don’t do a lot of talking.”
Oh, and if some has a contrary opinion, send us a report...
| 962 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:18:55am |
re: #955 Occasional Reader
Oh noes!
I actually used to like chatting with you, iceweasel, but you've quickly turned into one of the most dishonest debaters I've seen at LGF.
In other words, you can't refute me by honest means, therefore you don't like debating with me.
Let's ignore each other in future. I'm quite happy with that.
| 963 |
spidly Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:19:26am |
I would just be nice if the administration were concentrating on Afghanistan and the other things they are constitutionally mandated to do. There are enough knuckleheads with silly schemes in Oregon to keep me busy without the double layer of stupidity.
Ooops. I think I just outed myself as a nirther-far-right-extremist-paulbot-muttsupremist by not being "moderate" enough on the constitution.
| 964 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:19:29am |
| 965 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:19:47am |
re: #954 Pianobuff
Wait a second. That doesn't make sense. Obama yesterday said that AARP was on board with his healthcare plan. I'm assuming they endorsed it. Am I wrong?
As was pointed out, they want health care reform, have been working with Obama, but now with scared seniors, they are backing off. Death panels, euthanasia is scary shit for AARP members.
| 966 |
Flyers1974 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:20:06am |
re: #894 right_wing2
First 'grown up' magazine I read was my dad's 'Human Events' newsletter. I don't think I was much more than about 12 when I started reading it.
In a sense, my first grown up magazine did have something to do with Human Events, but not exactly the kind you were reading about.
| 967 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:20:08am |
re: #962 iceweasel
Let's ignore each other in future. I'm quite happy with that.
This is the third time in a row you've promised to ignore me. Just sayin'.
| 970 |
yma o hyd Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:20:53am |
re: #952 MandyManners
He's back in school and the summer seems to have matured him a bit--getting ready in the morning no longer is like pulling elephant's teeth.
I wish you hadn't mentioned the dryer. I did laundry yesterday and gotta' do more today.
Aww - sorry about mentioning that dryer!
I wish someone would invent a wash&dry robot who took all the laundry, sorted it, washed it, dried it, ironed it and put it away ...
Good to hear you son is maturing - its a habit children have, some 'get it' sooner, some later ...
Getting children up in the morning also is something which ought to be abolished!
| 971 |
Sharmuta Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:21:12am |
re: #955 Occasional Reader
Oh noes!
I actually used to like chatting with you, iceweasel, but you've quickly turned into one of the most dishonest debaters I've seen at LGF.
You're not paying good enough attention, then.
| 972 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:21:14am |
re: #950 KingKenrod
And what was the outcome? Please let me know.
I thought most people had dismissed it as another bogus conspiracy theory but it appears that I'm wrong.
| 974 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:21:36am |
| 975 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:21:47am |
re: #946 buzzsawmonkey
I see iceweasel is putting that Dale Carnegie course to good use.
Fucking cracker crumbs everywhere.
| 976 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:22:10am |
re: #960 MandyManners
It's not true. Obama is not collecting information of opponents of health care reform.
| 977 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:22:10am |
re: #967 Occasional Reader
This is the third time in a row you've promised to ignore me. Just sayin'.
Sounds like your relationship with Adriana Lima...
| 978 |
BlueRoses Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:22:17am |
re: #925 jcm
On the news this morning it was reported that the little girl who stood up and asked a question about why so many people are mean to him was the daughter of a contributor. And was a guest for the Presidents Easter egg roll.
"When asked by Julia Hall, 12, a Malden student, about the “mean” signs opposing his health care plan, Obama took the opportunity to address what he called rumors about “death panels that will basically pull the plug on grandma."
| 979 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:22:28am |
re: #948 iceweasel
Yes, it is ganging up.
Disagree all you like, but accusing me of being 'mendacious' (as someone else has) or "deliberately obtuse" IS being personally nasty.
Is it okay to say someone is sniffing right-wing glue?
| 980 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:22:31am |
re: #957 bloodnok
"Strawman!11!" I forgot that one. Thanks!
"Who cares if the government is potentially compiling a list of political opponents, they have lots of information about us already!"
Yeah, that's really sound, bulletproof logic, right there. I must be some hyper-partisan Republican wingnut for not recognizing it. (Funny, that, seeing as I'm a Democrat.)
| 981 |
KenJen Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:22:38am |
re: #931 iceweasel
No. I don't.
As Charles has also said, this is nothing more than an extension of the tactics that Obama used, very successfully, during his campaign to combat the rumours and lies of the moment.
Seriously, if people want to accuse the Obama admin of civil liberties violations, I daresay you'd find almost no-one here better informed than I, or more willing to support that.
This kind of crazed rumour is a problem, in that it undermines serious criticism of his admin on that issue.
Okay. Maybe Obama just wants to e-mail a Christmas card to me. I turned myself in. So I'll wait and see what happens. I have a feeling I may get audited next year./
| 982 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:22:51am |
re: #975 MandyManners
Fucking cracker crumbs everywhere.
RACSI- Wait...I'll get back to you on that.
/ q:
| 983 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:23:04am |
re: #968 quickjustice
If you don't want me to call you a liar, don't lie about what I've said.
Simple, really.
| 984 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:23:19am |
re: #954 Pianobuff
Wait a second. That doesn't make sense. Obama yesterday said that AARP was on board with his healthcare plan. I'm assuming they endorsed it. Am I wrong?
H0ld on but, HE LIED.
| 985 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:23:23am |
re: #979 MandyManners
Is it okay to say someone is sniffing right-wing glue?
Yes. This is a one-sided rule.
| 986 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:23:45am |
Is it just little old sensitive me or has anyone else noticed that there is an all-too-common debating pattern around here that goes something like this:
1. polite disagreement
2. heated disagreement
3. ad hominem attack
4. diagnosis of severe mental illness
Must be my imagination.
| 987 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:23:55am |
I'm eating a deliciously ripe nectarine. Anybody want some? Anybody?
| 988 |
MikeAlv77 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:24:03am |
re: #978 BlueRoses
On the news this morning it was reported that the little girl who stood up and asked a question about why so many people are mean to him was the daughter of a contributor. And was a guest for the Presidents Easter egg roll.
"When asked by Julia Hall, 12, a Malden student, about the “mean” signs opposing his health care plan, Obama took the opportunity to address what he called rumors about “death panels that will basically pull the plug on grandma."
Come on... she was a random young person picked by the President. He wouldn't do anything like that... People on this blog have told us so..
//
| 989 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:24:07am |
re: #979 MandyManners
Is it okay to say someone is sniffing right-wing glue?
I used to make model airplanes.
I don't recall there being separate tubes of glue for the right wing, the left wing, nor the tail and cockpit.
| 990 |
spidly Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:24:08am |
re: #953 quickjustice
Nope. I'm assuming nothing. I'm asking what YOU would do about the $38 trillion unfunded liability.
eeesh, wouldn't go raising taxes anyway, unless you're talking about involving the 40% who do not pay now in at least a token amount.
What kind of payment plan am I looking at?
| 991 |
quickjustice Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:24:33am |
re: #976 Killgore Trout
How do you know that? If it's not happening, then what's the meaning of "flag" at whitehouse etc.? And if the Weasel is correct, then why did the White House engage in that ham-handed tactic, violating the Privacy Act or the records retention statute?
| 992 |
yma o hyd Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:24:36am |
| 993 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:24:40am |
re: #965 avanti
As was pointed out, they want health care reform, have been working with Obama, but now with scared seniors, they are backing off. Death panels, euthanasia is scary shit for AARP members.
They are upset with rationing , not euthanasia.
| 994 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:24:48am |
re: #977 Kenneth
Sounds like your relationship with Adriana Lima.
No fair saying that name w/out a pic accompanying it.
| 995 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:25:22am |
re: #986 Spare O'Lake
Is it just little old sensitive me or has anyone else noticed that there is an all-too-common debating pattern around here that goes something like this:
1. polite disagreement
2. heated disagreement
3. ad hominem attack
4. diagnosis of severe mental illness
Must be my imagination.
Nope, just the internet.
| 996 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:25:33am |
re: #972 Killgore Trout
I thought most people had dismissed it as another bogus conspiracy theory but it appears that I'm wrong.
With that, I'm taking a break. I tired of watching the same conspiracy theory shot dead, only to do a Lazarus. I'm going to get some work done.
| 997 |
Occasional Reader Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:25:34am |
Well [cue ironically treacly music from South Park], I think we've all learned something today.
Later.
| 998 |
Last Mohican Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:25:36am |
Good morning everyone!
In case you want something to get upset about today, other than health care, I'll offer this.
In July, the Justice Department held a conference marking the 45th anniversary of the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964. 1964 wasn't so long ago, and there are plenty of people still alive who fought to get the act passed, or who benefitted from the act.
Yet, for some reason, Attorney General chose James Zogby to give the closing address. This article is concerning for two reasons. First, I never realized just how frequently Zogby has apologized for Islamic terrorist groups. Second, one of the Justice's most important tasks should be to help protect Americans from Islamic terror groups, and Zogby has specifically tried to help prevent the Justice Department from doing that. It's not good that Eric Holder selected someone like that to give a speech about anything.
| 999 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:25:53am |
| 1000 |
GGMac Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:26:22am |
re: #954 Pianobuff
Wait a second. That doesn't make sense. Obama yesterday said that AARP was on board with his healthcare plan. I'm assuming they endorsed it. Am I wrong?
They say they don't...(wink, wink)
AARP head cheese was on FOX News the other day; denied supporting O's plan, and insisted AARP is just an i-m-p-a-r-t-i-a-l observer who cares about ALL elderly - not just libs.
Yeah, right.
| 1001 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:26:26am |
re: #998 Last Mohican
Good morning everyone!
In case you want something to get upset about today, other than health care...
/as if we don't have plenty already...
| 1002 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:26:41am |
re: #994 Spenser (with an S)
No fair saying that name w/out a pic accompanying it.
| 1003 |
quickjustice Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:26:49am |
re: #983 iceweasel
No, Weasel, I said you had called personal friends of mine "liars" (your word) on this blog, and that you had smeared other personal friends of mine here as well. I said you were lying in characterizing them as "liars". Is that clear?
| 1004 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:26:52am |
re: #997 Occasional Reader
Which reminds me...anybody watch "Grey Dawn?"
| 1005 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:27:10am |
re: #976 Killgore Trout
It's not true. Obama is not collecting information of opponents of health care reform.
Please show me where in Douglass' message that she said to send the contents of the e-mails and Web sites.
| 1006 |
lincolntf Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:27:12am |
re: #978 BlueRoses
You must be a right-wing Nazi sympathizer with ties to Lyndon Larouche, the John Birch Society and the Tri-Lateral Commission to even suggest that Obama would ever, ever do something like plant political operatives in a "town hall" crowd in order to squelch legitimate questions from citizens.
Oh, it's already been confirmed that he did do that? Never mind.
| 1007 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:27:17am |
re: #999 MandyManners
Linky no worky but, in the back of my mind is a niggling memory that it's a rat.
Okay, definitely RACSIT!
/braces
| 1008 |
Sharmuta Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:27:18am |
re: #981 KenJen
Okay. Maybe Obama just wants to e-mail a Christmas card to me. I turned myself in. So I'll wait and see what happens. I have a feeling I may get audited next year./
He's obviously keeping that list so he can shove us all in FEMA camps with Glen Beck.
| 1009 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:27:22am |
re: #1000 GGMac
They say they don't...(wink, wink)
AARP head cheese was on FOX News the other day; denied supporting O's plan, and insisted AARP is just an i-m-p-a-r-t-i-a-l observer who cares about ALL elderly - not just libs.
Yeah, right.
Would that be the same way that NOW cares about all women, not just libs; or the NAACP cares about all African-Americans, not just libs?
| 1010 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:27:23am |
re: #972 Killgore Trout
I thought most people had dismissed it as another bogus conspiracy theory but it appears that I'm wrong.
There you go.
I was assured upthread that "no-one thought it was a conspiracy, people were laughing at Obama", and now we have a gorgeous recrudescence of the initial outbreak.
Hmmm. That kind of applies to a LOT of the behaviour I'm seeing here, actually.
| 1011 |
yma o hyd Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:27:25am |
re: #987 midwestgak
I'm eating a deliciously ripe nectarine. Anybody want some? Anybody?
How generous of you!
I'd love some, thank you very much!
| 1012 |
quickjustice Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:27:45am |
re: #988 MikeAlv77
Was the White House "egg roll" held on astroturf?
| 1016 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:29:44am |
re: #1010 iceweasel
...and now we have a gorgeous recrudescence of the initial outbreak.
Penicillin will clear that right up.
| 1017 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:29:46am |
re: #987 midwestgak
I'm eating a deliciously ripe nectarine. Anybody want some? Anybody?
Yum. We're still working our way through 15lbs. of MI blueberries. I think my kids are turning blue. Plus, after killing two mice in the garden, our strawberries are going crazy.
| 1018 |
yma o hyd Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:30:59am |
re: #999 MandyManners
Linky no worky but, in the back of my mind is a niggling memory that it's a rat.
Brief summary - its from Russian, 'to squeal' - which, at least in English, also means someone informing the police/government in secret about perceived misdemeanors of others.
Had pretty serious consequences under Stalin ...
So - rat is not that far out, and they do squeal as well.
| 1019 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:31:06am |
re: #1017 Spenser (with an S)
Plus, after killing two mice in the garden, our strawberries are going crazy.
OK, explain to me how your strawberries killed two mice?
| 1020 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:31:22am |
| 1021 |
quickjustice Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:31:47am |
re: #990 spidly
Let's do the math: $38,000,000,000,000 divided by 250,000,000 Americans =
$152,000 for every American, man, woman, and child! That's per year.
Now pay up!
| 1022 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:31:49am |
re: #1017 Spenser (with an S)
Yum. We're still working our way through 15lbs. of MI blueberries. I think my kids are turning blue. Plus, after killing two mice in the garden, our strawberries are going crazy.
Your strawberries kill mice? But do they make nice pets? Can they has cheezburgers?
| 1027 |
yma o hyd Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:33:19am |
| 1028 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:33:48am |
re: #1017 Spenser (with an S)
Yum. We're still working our way through 15lbs. of MI blueberries. I think my kids are turning blue.
| 1029 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:33:49am |
re: #1019 Kenneth
OK, explain to me how your strawberries killed two mice?
Really big strawberries. Squashed the poor mice while they were running under the plants. :)
| 1031 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:34:19am |
Sigh. I see the discussion has turned sour and mean-spirited since I left.
| 1032 |
GGMac Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:34:33am |
re: #987 midwestgak
I'm eating a deliciously ripe nectarine. Anybody want some? Anybody?
Yes, thank you - and I'll chip in some butter pecan ice cream.
mmm.
| 1035 |
Flyers1974 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:35:30am |
My two cents regarding e-mails forwarded to the WH: What is the end result? If it is true that he can or may use these e-mails in an illegal manner, isn't it also true he could also do this without requesting that the e-mails be forwarded in the first place? And if his intention was to stifle criticism, I would imagine the actual effect would be quite the opposite. No doubt that the more partisan Democrats would have been up in arms about this if Bush did the same, that is surely true. In my opinion, they'd be overreacting as well.
| 1036 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:35:30am |
re: #1031 thedopefishlives
Funny how it goes sometimes? Wonder if it's the low blood sugar count between breakfast and lunch.
| 1037 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:35:44am |
| 1038 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:35:48am |
re: #1019 Kenneth
re: #1017 Spenser (with an S)
Plus, after killing two mice in the garden, our strawberries are going crazy.
OK, explain to me how your strawberries killed two mice?
Good one!
| 1039 |
bloodnok Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:36:04am |
re: #1034 opnion
Nonsence , you talked about "Right Wing " glue sniffing for openers.
It's no different from "Kool aid drinkers". Just let it go.
| 1040 |
GGMac Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:36:20am |
re: #1009 JamesTKirk
Would that be the same way that NOW cares about all women, not just libs; or the NAACP cares about all African-Americans, not just libs?
Bingo!
| 1041 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:36:33am |
re: #1010 iceweasel
There you go.
I was assured upthread that "no-one thought it was a conspiracy, people were laughing at Obama", and now we have a gorgeous recrudescence of the initial outbreak.
Hmmm. That kind of applies to a LOT of the behaviour I'm seeing here, actually.
Morning ice, hey you and OR are keeping zardo and I busy with the dictionary this morning (become sore again). I see you are debating whether or not o's website will be used to keep track of dissenters. I think you were trying to argue that it couldn't be used for that purpose the other day, which isn't the case when emails are forwarded. I was thinking about you a bit walking the lab yesterday afternoon and was wondering if any of these debates here at LGF have actually changed your opinion or beliefs on any issues. If so, did you admit it and thank the people you were debating with for enlightening you?
| 1042 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:36:50am |
re: #1036 BlueCanuck
Funny how it goes sometimes? Wonder if it's the low blood sugar count between breakfast and lunch.
Well, usually I come in here before everyone's had their coffee, so EVERYone's grumpy.
| 1043 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:37:03am |
re: #1025 quickjustice
My personal friends don't know you, and they don't blog here, so it's unlikely they've called you a "liar". So you can dish it out, but you can't take it, correct?
Didn't you just claim I'd called them 'liars'?
So you want to dish it out and you're pissed when someone dishes it back, right?
BTW, Charles has made very clear how he feels about people who want to drive commenters off the blog, and who only desire to engage in flame wars. It's bad for the blog and it's bad for the readers. I find these internecine warfares hella boring, and I won't participate in your obvious desire to derail the thread, so you'll have to conduct yours on your own.
| 1045 |
Sharmuta Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:37:33am |
re: #1039 bloodnok
It's no different from "Kool aid drinkers". Just let it go.
Our kool-aid tastes better.
| 1048 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:38:29am |
re: #1045 Sharmuta
Our kool-aid tastes better.
Good morning, Shar. Pass the special Zionist sekrit agent Kool-aid, please. I'm running on empty today. :)
| 1049 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:38:36am |
re: #1042 thedopefishlives
Well, usually I come in here before everyone's had their coffee, so EVERYone's grumpy.
Okay, that's for the early morning. Maybe there should be more buffets in here with a bottomless coffee urn.
| 1051 |
yma o hyd Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:39:02am |
| 1052 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:39:30am |
re: #1010 iceweasel
I was assured upthread that "no-one thought it was a conspiracy, people were laughing at Obama"
If you're going to quote me, I said "No one here was freaking out" about it. Why the word conspiracy? It sounds like a stupid and oddly-creepy idea and we've been pointing that out.
| 1053 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:39:48am |
re: #978 BlueRoses
On the news this morning it was reported that the little girl who stood up and asked a question about why so many people are mean to him was the daughter of a contributor. And was a guest for the Presidents Easter egg roll.
"When asked by Julia Hall, 12, a Malden student, about the “mean” signs opposing his health care plan, Obama took the opportunity to address what he called rumors about “death panels that will basically pull the plug on grandma."
Big surprise.
All those "mean" signs against Holy and Precious Government Run Health Care. boo hoo. Our poor representatives and their delicate egos. They must hide behind a planted child.
| 1054 |
Dianna Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:39:59am |
re: #1048 thedopefishlives
Good morning, Shar. Pass the special Zionist sekrit agent Kool-aid, please. I'm running on empty today. :)
Me, too.
Bad night.
Someone say something funny. Please!
| 1055 |
2senseplain Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:40:44am |
| 1056 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:40:45am |
re: #1049 BlueCanuck
Okay, that's for the early morning. Maybe there should be more buffets in here with a bottomless coffee urn.
Perhaps an extension to the Iron Fist rule: If you're too hungry to work, you're too hungry to post.
| 1057 |
Sharmuta Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:41:05am |
re: #1048 thedopefishlives
Good morning, Fishie. I'm all out of that flavor of kool-aid, but I do have some Fruity Beck Punch, or Orly Nirther Orange, perhaps?
| 1058 |
KenJen Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:41:21am |
Little girl catches fish with her bare hands You out there Hoops? This is how you do it. (No sound)
| 1060 |
yma o hyd Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:41:53am |
re: #1054 Dianna
Me, too.
Bad night.
Someone say something funny. Please!
Dunno if thats funny, but I've fallen in love with the voice of a tenor.
At my age!
(You can all laugh now ...)
| 1061 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:42:10am |
re: #1055 2senseplain
re: #1017 Spenser (with an S)
Killing mice increases strawberry yieds? Will pet shop mice do or do I have to get hold of the wild sort?;)
Yes, but the altars have to be very small.
| 1062 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:42:19am |
Time for a cycling tour of Sweden...
Tattooed Swedish devil girls sexually molest cyclist
Swedish cops are on the look-out for a quintet of tattooed girls who dragged a 50-year-old man off his bicycle, pulled down his trousers and smalls and "sexually molested" the poor bloke.
The incident happened on 8 July in Örebro, central Sweden, the Aftonbladet newspaper reports. One of the gang - described as 5' 7" tall and with "tattoos on her forearms" - grabbed his bike's rack and brought the victim to the ground.
Having had their evil way, the five assailants made good their escape. The man was "not otherwise beaten or physically assaulted".
Police spokeswoman Annika Haaster rightly described the attack as "downright unusual". In the hope that members of the public might help identify the tattooed ambush vixens, she concluded: "Perhaps there are others who’ve had the same thing happen to them."
Who's with me?
| 1063 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:42:24am |
re: #978 BlueRoses
On the news this morning it was reported that the little girl who stood up and asked a question about why so many people are mean to him was the daughter of a contributor. And was a guest for the Presidents Easter egg roll.
"When asked by Julia Hall, 12, a Malden student, about the “mean” signs opposing his health care plan, Obama took the opportunity to address what he called rumors about “death panels that will basically pull the plug on grandma."
The person who posted this comment has been banned four times previously, and just went through the previous thread up-dinging every comment that supported the Paulian who brought a gun to the presidential town hall.
He is now off my site. Again.
| 1065 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:42:54am |
re: #1056 thedopefishlives
Perhaps an extension to the Iron Fist rule: If you're too hungry to work, you're too hungry to post.
Hmmm, good idea. I think there should be additions to the Iron Fist rule. Maybe a small manual should suffice. Might assist people in their overall blog experience.
| 1066 |
Dianna Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:43:00am |
re: #1055 2senseplain
re: #1017 Spenser (with an S)
Killing mice increases strawberry yieds? Will pet shop mice do or do I have to get hold of the wild sort?;)
Last summer, we had the sleekest, plumpest field mice ever. Then this semi-feral kitty moved into the area, and suddenly, no field mice.
She leaves the occasional tribute. I toss the corpses off into the roses.
We have great roses.
| 1068 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:43:44am |
And if I have to keep deleting flame war comments, I'll simply start blocking some more accounts.
| 1069 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:43:46am |
Wow ,,,
There's a huge pile of DELETIONS just outside the door! looks like I missed sumfin!
| 1070 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:44:45am |
| 1071 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:44:46am |
re: #1054 Dianna
Me, too.
Bad night.
Someone say something funny. Please!
I would, but I'm on the computer that hacks up furballs on threads this big. (It took me five minutes to post this comment, and by then they had made the comment about the sacrifice of mice for the betterment of crop yields anyway.)
| 1073 |
yma o hyd Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:45:03am |
re: #1063 Charles
If I have to keep
The person who posted this comment has been banned four times previously, and just went through the previous thread up-dinging every comment that supported the Paulian who brought a gun to the presidential town hall.
He is now off my site. Again.
Blimey.
Hope he's off permanently - for taking repeatedly advantage of your good nature!
| 1074 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:45:09am |
re: #1063 Charles
If I have to keep
The person who posted this comment has been banned four times previously, and just went through the previous thread up-dinging every comment that supported the Paulian who brought a gun to the presidential town hall.
He is now off my site. Again.
Good thing I missed that. I'm finding it hard to imagine rational ways of defending anyone carrying a gun anywhere near the president (apart from the Secret Service and such, obviously).
Ah, I think the key word is "rational".
| 1075 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:45:16am |
re: #1057 Sharmuta
Good morning, Fishie. I'm all out of that flavor of kool-aid, but I do have some Fruity Beck Punch, or Orly Nirther Orange, perhaps?
Ah, I'm in the mood for the orange, today. Mmm.
re: #1065 BlueCanuck
Hmmm, good idea. I think there should be additions to the Iron Fist rule. Maybe a small manual should suffice. Might assist people in their overall blog experience.
You know, honestly, that wouldn't be a half-bad idea. People seem to think they can post whatever they please and not suffer any repercussions for it.
| 1076 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:45:17am |
re: #1041 turn
Morning ice, hey you and OR are keeping zardo and I busy with the dictionary this morning (become sore again). I see you are debating whether or not o's website will be used to keep track of dissenters. I think you were trying to argue that it couldn't be used for that purpose the other day, which isn't the case when emails are forwarded. I was thinking about you a bit walking the lab yesterday afternoon and was wondering if any of these debates here at LGF have actually changed your opinion or beliefs on any issues. If so, did you admit it and thank the people you were debating with for enlightening you?
Hey turn, good to see you.
I said, and still say, that the purpose of the WH was to ask for rumours and smears-- the contents of the many viral emails, in order to combat them as quickly as possible. This is no different than the strategy he employed during the campaign, very successfully.
I predicted then that we'd see a WH webpade go up with a fact check debunking the most common smears. And we did.
Yes, LGF continues to be very enlightening to me, and I enjoy engaging with the many intelligent people here who have views different than mine-- as I have repeatedly expressed, and did so just earlier in this very thread. Although to be honest I'm getting damn tired of the bullshit and the signal to noise ratio of late isn't that great for me.
| 1079 |
FrogMarch Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:46:08am |
re: #921 lincolntf
Heh. The Boston Herald sent a few reporters to Obama's Faux Town Hall meeting yeterday, and they're all pretty much laughing at how obviously phony and self-serving the whole production was.
Herald articles
Here's the entire article.
[Link: news.bostonherald.com...]
| 1080 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:46:19am |
| 1081 |
yma o hyd Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:46:38am |
| 1084 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:47:46am |
| 1085 |
Dianna Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:47:48am |
re: #1074 JamesTKirk
Good thing I missed that. I'm finding it hard to imagine rational ways of defending anyone carrying a gun anywhere near the president (apart from the Secret Service and such, obviously).
Ah, I think the key word is "rational".
It is.
Wow, what a thought!
Had I a concealed carry permit, I'd check the gun at the door or something.
| 1087 |
Honorary Yooper Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:49:05am |
re: #1069 sattv4u2
Wow ,,,
There's a huge pile of DELETIONS just outside the door! looks like I missed sumfin!
Just the now-usual morning flame fest. To be honest, I'm a bit sick of watching the flame war in the morning when it targets people who are valued contributors.
| 1088 |
Sharmuta Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:49:29am |
re: #1075 thedopefishlives
You know, honestly, that wouldn't be a half-bad idea. People seem to think they can post whatever they please and not suffer any repercussions for it.
Seems like it's a cultural breakdown of civility- not just here or the internet.
| 1089 |
Desert Dog Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:49:36am |
| 1090 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:49:38am |
Any lizards here use Medicare Advantage?
Opinions? Has it helped, not helped, etc.?
| 1091 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:49:41am |
re: #1085 Dianna
It is.
Wow, what a thought!
Had I a concealed carry permit, I'd check the gun at the door or something.
Why even bring one in the first place?
| 1093 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:49:55am |
re: #1085 Dianna
It is.
Wow, what a thought!
Had I a concealed carry permit, I'd check the gun at the door or something.
As I explained in #310, I can't even carry my keys to some locations. (I forgot to remove that from my keychain the last time I went to Fort [redacted], but they didn't notice it.)
| 1094 |
Desert Dog Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:51:07am |
re: #1087 Honorary Yooper
Just the now-usual morning flame fest. To be honest, I'm a bit sick of watching the flame war in the morning when it targets people who are valued contributors.
Call me naive and snicker at my lack of "hipness", but just what is a "flame war"?
| 1095 |
KenJen Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:51:30am |
re: #1080 Killgore Trout
It's called "trout tickling"
Ha. Only you would know that.
| 1096 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:51:48am |
re: #1088 Sharmuta
Seems like it's a cultural breakdown of civility- not just here or the internet.
I would agree with that wholeheartedly. I've been making it a habit of telling people who perform service roles at restaurants and shops "Thank you, have a nice day/night" whenever I'm preparing to leave. You should see the way these people react; surprise, or just big honest smiles and "thanks". It's like common decency is something they don't see every day.
| 1097 |
Dianna Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:52:00am |
re: #1091 BlueCanuck
Why even bring one in the first place?
No clue.
The only circumstances I can imagine always having a gun is if one were being stalked. Or if one worked as a bodyguard?
| 1098 |
Ward Cleaver Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:52:05am |
re: #1062 Killgore Trout
Time for a cycling tour of Sweden...
Tattooed Swedish devil girls sexually molest cyclist
Who's with me?
Was he yelling at them, "Come back, come back!"?
| 1099 |
Desert Dog Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:52:22am |
re: #1092 buzzsawmonkey
Fool: "I have a Constitutional right to carry a gun."
Secret Service Agent: "Yes, sir. And I have the duty to pound you into the linoleum if you attempt to bring that weapon any nearer to the President."
Yes, be sure to hold a sign that says the President should be shot as well. There is free speech and then there is stupidity...sometimes they mix sometimes they do not.
| 1100 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:52:39am |
re: #1094 Desert Dog
Call me naive and snicker at my lack of "hipness", but just what is a "flame war"?
An argument that degenerates into back-and-forth personal attacks.
| 1102 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:52:46am |
re: #1076 iceweasel
Hang in there, I enjoy your company. Another thing I was thinking about was you never seem to post any life experience stories, it's always debate - debate -debate. It would be fun to know more about you.
| 1103 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:53:04am |
| 1104 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:53:09am |
re: #1096 thedopefishlives
I would agree with that wholeheartedly. I've been making it a habit of telling people who perform service roles at restaurants and shops "Thank you, have a nice day/night" whenever I'm preparing to leave. You should see the way these people react; surprise, or just big honest smiles and "thanks". It's like common decency is something they don't see every day.
I don't understand why service people are supposed to thank me when they provide me with food or whatever. I try to make a point of responding "No, thank you."
| 1105 |
Dianna Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:53:24am |
re: #1098 Ward Cleaver
Was he yelling at them, "Come back, come back!"?
I'm actually thinking about his humiliation and disgust, and I don't actually think it's all that funny.
| 1106 |
Ward Cleaver Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:53:26am |
re: #1063 Charles
The person who posted this comment has been banned four times previously, and just went through the previous thread up-dinging every comment that supported the Paulian who brought a gun to the presidential town hall.
He is now off my site. Again.
Hey Charles, I know they got the stick, but was what they posted about the little girl true? Just curious.
| 1107 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:53:29am |
re: #1098 Ward Cleaver
Was he yelling at them, "Come back, come back!"?
"Same time tomorrow, I'll bring viagra!"
| 1108 |
Ward Cleaver Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:54:14am |
re: #1105 Dianna
I'm actually thinking about his humiliation and disgust, and I don't actually think it's all that funny.
I'm sorry. Me, I'd be worried about getting some disease.
| 1109 |
2senseplain Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:54:20am |
re: #1066 Dianna
Nice tip but I would be reduced to either the pet shop(too expensive)or hiking up into the hills and trapping them. I live in Israel and we have a national feral cat problem(peope treat cats here like rats that meow and think the idea of keeping them as pets is insane. ). On the other hand, we don't have much of a mouse problem. Of course, when one of these felines has died in my yard I've also buried(gingerly, with gloves)the free fertilzer and the nearby plants seem to appreciate it. Hmmm. . .No, too "Elsie's Heaps(Robert Graves Collected Stories)". But I'll have one of those nectarines if there are any left, please.
| 1111 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:54:58am |
re: #1104 JamesTKirk
I don't understand why service people are supposed to thank me when they provide me with food or whatever. I try to make a point of responding "No, thank you."
Well, having worked in customer service for a few months, the reason why is because you're thanking them for giving you business. Me, I agree more with your point of view, and they seem to appreciate it.
| 1112 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:55:06am |
re: #1102 turn
Hang in there, I enjoy your company. Another thing I was thinking about was you never seem to post any life experience stories, it's always debate - debate -debate. It would be fun to know more about you.
Well if people would quit attacking her about her politics...
| 1113 |
Honorary Yooper Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:55:08am |
re: #1094 Desert Dog
Call me naive and snicker at my lack of "hipness", but just what is a "flame war"?
A flame war is a hostile and insulting exchange between users on the internet. Usually they contain a lot of ad hominem attacks and insults hurled at other users. Many are instigated by trolls, but others can come from general disagreements between legitimate users.
| 1114 |
MikeAlv77 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:55:09am |
re: #1104 JamesTKirk
I don't understand why service people are supposed to thank me when they provide me with food or whatever. I try to make a point of responding "No, thank you."
I was at Red Lobster this past weekend enjoying dinner. Kept telling the waiter.. "Thank You" when he refilled the water or brought the meal, etc... Guy was really surprised and gave great service. A little thanks goes a long way
| 1116 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:55:57am |
re: #1106 Ward Cleaver
Hey Charles, I know they got the stick, but was what they posted about the little girl true? Just curious.
There are a number of sites claiming that it's true, showing a picture of her posing with Obama on a previous occasion, and describing the amount of time and money the girl's parents have given to the One's cause.
I'm not sure if the links survived Stinky's purge, though; perhaps you might want to check the spinoff links?
| 1117 |
Sharmuta Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:56:09am |
re: #1096 thedopefishlives
I would agree with that wholeheartedly. I've been making it a habit of telling people who perform service roles at restaurants and shops "Thank you, have a nice day/night" whenever I'm preparing to leave. You should see the way these people react; surprise, or just big honest smiles and "thanks". It's like common decency is something they don't see every day.
That's because you and I don't see each other every day. I use common decency daily- from the bus driver, to holding doors, to helping a senior. I was raised that way and will continue to behave as I always have regardless of the unfortunately common indecency of others.
| 1118 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:56:10am |
re: #1087 Honorary Yooper
Just the now-usual morning flame fest. To be honest, I'm a bit sick of watching the flame war in the morning when it targets people who are valued contributors.
dinged ya on the yoop. Hey, how ya all doing?
| 1119 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:56:32am |
re: #1102 turn
Hang in there, I enjoy your company. Another thing I was thinking about was you never seem to post any life experience stories, it's always debate - debate -debate. It would be fun to know more about you.
Well now that you ask...
“The details of my life are quite inconsequential... Very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low-grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a 15-year-old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize; he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes, he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament... My childhood was typical: summers in Rangoon... luge lessons... In the spring, we'd make meat helmets... When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds — pretty standard, really. At the age of 12, I received my first scribe. At the age of 14, a Zoroastrian named Vilmer ritualistically shaved my testicles — there really is nothing like a shorn scrotum — it's breathtaking... I suggest you try it."
| 1120 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:56:52am |
re: #1074 JamesTKirk
Good thing I missed that. I'm finding it hard to imagine rational ways of defending anyone carrying a gun anywhere near the president (apart from the Secret Service and such, obviously).
Ah, I think the key word is "rational".
There are still people showing up in that thread who seem to think there's absolutely nothing wrong with a white supremacist carrying a loaded gun and a threatening sign to a presidential event.
| 1121 |
Desert Dog Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:57:46am |
re: #1100 thedopefishlives
An argument that degenerates into back-and-forth personal attacks.
Dr. Cordell come on last night?
| 1122 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:57:52am |
re: #1111 thedopefishlives
Well, having worked in customer service for a few months, the reason why is because you're thanking them for giving you business. Me, I agree more with your point of view, and they seem to appreciate it.
I worked in the trenches for years when I was in college, and the actual reason why we thank the customers is because store policy requires it.
| 1123 |
Desert Dog Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:58:14am |
re: #1113 Honorary Yooper
A flame war is a hostile and insulting exchange between users on the internet. Usually they contain a lot of ad hominem attacks and insults hurled at other users. Many are instigated by trolls, but others can come from general disagreements between legitimate users.
Thanks!
| 1124 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:58:40am |
re: #1116 JamesTKirk
There are a number of sites claiming that it's true, showing a picture of her posing with Obama on a previous occasion, and describing the amount of time and money the girl's parents have given to the One's cause.
I'm not sure if the links survived Stinky's purge, though; perhaps you might want to check the spinoff links?
| 1125 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:58:50am |
re: #1120 Charles
Seems like a clear case of "Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my (the President's) nose".
| 1126 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:58:53am |
re: #1112 BlueCanuck
Well if people would quit attacking her about her politics...
I think it was her insults and lies that people were attacking, actually. If you look at the deleted comments above, she is among those who had comments deleted, not her "attackers".
| 1127 |
midwestgak Wed, Aug 12, 2009 8:59:45am |
re: #1114 MikeAlv77
I was at Red Lobster this past weekend enjoying dinner. Kept telling the waiter.. "Thank You" when he refilled the water or brought the meal, etc... Guy was really surprised and gave great service. A little thanks goes a long way
Thank you. :)
| 1128 |
William Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:00:09am |
CNN apologetics in full swing -- front page, with a full-color photo of a happy hajib-wearer:
Muslim women uncover myths about the hijab
Rwanda Abdelaziz doesn't want your pity. She doesn't want your stares or whispers. What the New Jersey high school senior wants you to understand is that she doesn't wear the hijab, the head scarf worn by Muslim women, because she is submissive. "It represents beauty to me," says Abdelaziz.[Link: www.cnn.com...]
| 1129 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:00:13am |
re: #1120 Charles
Some formerly reputable right wing bloggers don't see anything wrong with it either. Bad craziness is widespread.
| 1130 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:00:22am |
re: #1115 Sharmuta
That's because you and I don't see each other every day. I use common decency daily- from the bus driver, to holding doors, to helping a senior. I was raised that way and will continue to behave as I always have regardless of the unfortunately common indecency of others.
I always get a giggle out of my mother-in-law whenever I open and hold doors for her. I never quite understood why until I met my brothers-in-law, who are both - well, not to disparage my own family, but they're not what you'd call proper gentlemen. It's just second nature to me.
| 1131 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:00:44am |
| 1134 |
Ward Cleaver Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:02:08am |
| 1135 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:02:11am |
re: #1132 buzzsawmonkey
I wouldn't care if he was not a white supremacist; any man--or woman, let's not be sexist here--is an idiot if they bring a loaded gun to a presidential event. The threatening sign is merely the cherry on the sundae.
These acts are idiocy enough in themselves; the actor's ideology doesn't enter into it.
This. I'm an avid supporter of 2nd Amendment rights, and even I'm not crazy enough to think of bringing a gun within, oh, 20 miles of the President of the United States (or any government official, for that matter). Why some people can't get that is beyond me.
| 1136 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:02:11am |
re: #1133 Dianna
White supremacist? That's firm?
Probably not very firm; anyone who joins the KKK and carries a gun has to be compensating for something.
| 1137 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:02:25am |
re: #1133 Dianna
Yes, he listed a prominent neo-nazi as one of his heroes on his facebook page.
| 1138 |
Honorary Yooper Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:02:38am |
re: #1121 Desert Dog
Dr. Cordell come on last night?
Fortunately no. People were attacking Iceweasel earlier. The usual suspects. If it were Dr. Cordell, there'd be a lot more to the flame war. I think that the good doctor is little more than a troll.
| 1139 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:02:39am |
re: #1096 thedopefishlives
I would agree with that wholeheartedly. I've been making it a habit of telling people who perform service roles at restaurants and shops "Thank you, have a nice day/night" whenever I'm preparing to leave. You should see the way these people react; surprise, or just big honest smiles and "thanks". It's like common decency is something they don't see every day.
I do that too. Years ago I worked in retail, like many people probably have as teenagers or whatever.
I developed a theory then that some people deliberately pick fights with retail clerks. They do it because they lack power in their own lives and it was the one pleace where they know someone has to stand there and take it and keep saying "I'm sorry, Sir" (or ma'am, or whatever.)
It just happened a lot. People would come in angry and want to be mean to someone. And nothing you could do could placate them.
Believe it or not, I had the job of calming them down. And that's how I came to realise some of them wanted to be angry. Worse than that, they wanted to be MEAN to someone. Once I came in and made them feel 'important' enough, then they'd settle down. But their main goal was to just scream at some poor cashier or clerk for 15 minutes, regardless of anything.
Now I always thank all clerks and service people. And they're usually so grateful that someone spoke nicely to them and treated them like a human being. I do it even when they're mean to me, like at the DMV or somewhere--because I know they probably had 20 nasty angry people dumping on them just that morning before I even got there.
The internet is like that times 1000, because of the anonymity factor. People who are totally nice and polite in their real lives become raging fonts of aggression online.
| 1140 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:02:53am |
re: #1125 Spenser (with an S)
Seems like a clear case of "Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my (the President's) nose".
The steep irony in this as that the gun-toter, whom I presume to be some sort of Libertarian (don't know for sure though), is all for small government, minimal taxes, etc.
Thanks to his troglo-doofery, eyes will be on him for a long time. Eyes cost money. My money... your money... his money.
But that never occurred to him I'll bet.
| 1141 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:03:03am |
re: #1117 Sharmuta
You're one of the luckier ones. It's hard to be polite when you're raised (school "lessons") to believe that no good deed goes unpunished.
| 1142 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:03:18am |
re: #1133 Dianna
White supremacist? That's firm?
He lists white supremacist militia nutjob Randy Weaver as a "hero" on his MySpace page.
| 1143 |
debutaunt Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:03:32am |
re: #1119 Kenneth
HAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA
| 1144 |
Sharmuta Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:03:44am |
re: #1126 JamesTKirk
I think folks better get a grip regardless because it's obviously unwelcome. Nobody wants to spend their morning at LGF reading this stuff. I miss the days when overnight flame wars were the rarity, and we had fun in the mornings with lively debate about various topics. Now every morning is the opposite and it sucks. Leaves me, and possibly others, in a bad mood for the rest of the day. I'm sick of it, and I'm not alone.
| 1145 |
Ward Cleaver Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:03:51am |
re: #1136 JamesTKirk
Probably not very firm; anyone who joins the KKK and carries a gun has to be compensating for something.
Next he'll be getting a bicycle and visiting Sweden...
/
| 1146 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:03:52am |
re: #1141 laZardo
You're one of the luckier ones. It's hard to be polite when you're raised (school "lessons") to believe that no good deed goes unpunished.
Would that be the School of Hard Knocks?
| 1147 |
Ward Cleaver Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:05:02am |
re: #1138 Honorary Yooper
Fortunately no. People were attacking Iceweasel earlier. The usual suspects. If it were Dr. Cordell, there'd be a lot more to the flame war. I think that the good doctor is little more than a troll.
I still suspect he's David Schwartz's sock puppet. Same condescending crap.
| 1148 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:05:20am |
re: #1126 JamesTKirk
I think it was her insults and lies that people were attacking, actually. If you look at the deleted comments above, she is among those who had comments deleted, not her "attackers".
I think you're way off base here.
| 1149 |
Honorary Yooper Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:05:28am |
re: #1129 Killgore Trout
Some formerly reputable right wing bloggers don't see anything wrong with it either. Bad craziness is widespread.
There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight
| 1150 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:05:33am |
re: #1144 Sharmuta
I think folks better get a grip regardless because it's obviously unwelcome. Nobody wants to spend their morning at LGF reading this stuff. I miss the days when overnight flame wars were the rarity, and we had fun in the mornings with lively debate about various topics. Now every morning is the opposite and it sucks. Leaves me, and possibly others, in a bad mood for the rest of the day. I'm sick of it, and I'm not alone.
So she has free liberty to lie, misrepresent, and insult; and the rest of us aren't allowed to be so uncivil as to call her on it? You think that's going to make anyone happy?
| 1151 |
debutaunt Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:05:40am |
re: #1121 Desert Dog
Dr. Cordell come on last night?
Cordell is a doctor? It self-identified as an educated white-collar worker with a girlfriend.
| 1152 |
harpsicon Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:05:42am |
Dear All,
Can't spend all that much time here, and totally missed the post on Sen. Isakson calling Sarah Palin "nuts" (these days that does not seem to be a very bold action...)
But scrolling down through it, I never found anything about what she actually said on her twitter. Meta-Palin, where we discuss what somebody says she said, or heard she said, is just so 2008MSM, imho... I would have hoped that at least here somebody would have referred to what she actually did say.
I quote:
"The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil."
I think that this is essentially true. It's not about living wills, or what's already being done about end-of-life issues in current policies, it's about having no choices in the face of a regime of rationing that it all too likely to come about, due to cost restraints. And it won't be this dramatic a lot of the time - if you just delay care, as is the norm in the UK where they work to get your diagnosis or procedure done within 18 weeks, the effect is the same. It's why cancer outcomes are apparently so much better here.
I think Sen. Isakson didn't actually read this, but was responding to what somebody said that Palin said.
Can't we be above that? Get the facts as opposed to the rumors?? Otherwise we're not being honest - Sarah Palin is painting a picture with bright colors which otherwise would be very hazy for a lot of people. But it's not inherently a false picture.
It seems to me that the entire picture of Sarah Palin in the popular mind, even among quite intelligent people, is colored by this sort of thing.
| 1153 |
Dianna Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:06:44am |
re: #1136 JamesTKirk
Probably not very firm; anyone who joins the KKK and carries a gun has to be compensating for something.
*Snort*
| 1154 |
Dianna Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:07:24am |
re: #1137 Killgore Trout
Yes, he listed a prominent neo-nazi as one of his heroes on his facebook page.
I didn't know that.
Not just an idiot, or a single-issue voter, then.
| 1155 |
Kosh's Shadow Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:07:29am |
re: #1139 iceweasel
I try not to take out anger on the clerks, even if I'm upset at the company.
Today I closed an account at a bank that added "dormant account fees". While I asked the teller if there was a way to tell the bank why I closed the account, I tried to be nice to her, and said that I know she doesn't set the policy. Everything went smoothly probably because I don't take it out on someone who doesn't deserve it.
Now, "customer service" people who give me a hard time, that's a different matter.
| 1156 |
Ward Cleaver Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:07:42am |
re: #1113 Honorary Yooper
A flame war is a hostile and insulting exchange between users on the internet. Usually they contain a lot of ad hominem attacks and insults hurled at other users. Many are instigated by trolls, but others can come from general disagreements between legitimate users.
Yes, flame wars have been around at least since Usenet.
| 1158 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:07:56am |
re: #1119 Kenneth
I didn't get that, which shouldn't be much of a surprise. It's all over google, where did that originate?
| 1159 |
Desert Dog Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:08:05am |
re: #1151 debutaunt
Cordell is a doctor? It self-identified as an educated white-collar worker with a girlfriend.
I am not sure if he is an actual Doctor, but I have a good idea about what kind of person he is...
| 1160 |
Ward Cleaver Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:08:34am |
re: #1152 harpsicon
Well, he didn't actually call her nuts, just her use of the term "death panels".
| 1161 |
Kosh's Shadow Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:08:51am |
re: #1149 Honorary Yooper
There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight
Too bad we keep getting fooled again.
| 1162 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:08:57am |
re: #1138 Honorary Yooper
I think we need a ruling on this and Charles seems to look at each individual comment. Ice Is quite smart and very active here. She is not shy and will have 8 different discussions going here because conservatives outnumber liberals here. If she is going hammer-and-tongs with 8 people and you see 8 responses coming back at her, it can look a little crazy but she hurls equally well (or equally badly) and sometimes is first to throw I think she would admit. Don't go personal, people.
| 1163 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:09:38am |
Has the ACLU weighed in on the whole forwarding of emails to the White House yet?
| 1164 |
Creeping Eruption Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:09:43am |
re: #1155 Kosh's Shadow
I try not to take out anger on the clerks, even if I'm upset at the company.
Today I closed an account at a bank that added "dormant account fees". While I asked the teller if there was a way to tell the bank why I closed the account, I tried to be nice to her, and said that I know she doesn't set the policy. Everything went smoothly probably because I don't take it out on someone who doesn't deserve it.Now, "customer service" people who give me a hard time, that's a different matter.
Every time I call to complain about a fee, charge, whatever, I am always polite. I also explain to the nice person on the other end that they do not get paid enough to take the shit I am about to deal out. They always pass me up the line, where I am just as polite.
| 1165 |
Ward Cleaver Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:10:07am |
re: #1163 Pianobuff
Has the ACLU weighed in on the whole forwarding of emails to the White House yet?
Why, they're all for it!
| 1166 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:10:08am |
re: #1153 Dianna
*Snort*
Glad you liked that; a nanosecond after I posted it, I remembered that you "opted-out" from my "gutter humor" yesterday and I was getting ready to apologize.
| 1167 |
Desert Dog Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:10:27am |
re: #1163 Pianobuff
Has the ACLU weighed in on the whole forwarding of emails to the White House yet?
Yes, they have asked for copies of them so they can add them to their data base as well.
/
| 1168 |
Sharmuta Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:10:30am |
re: #1150 JamesTKirk
So she has free liberty to lie, misrepresent, and insult; and the rest of us aren't allowed to be so uncivil as to call her on it? You think that's going to make anyone happy?
I didn't say any of that. But if you can't debate civilly, be prepared for the consequences.
| 1169 |
Honorary Yooper Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:10:33am |
re: #1151 debutaunt
Cordell is a doctor? It self-identified as an educated white-collar worker with a girlfriend.
I'd be shocked if it even had a girlfriend. It seems to show up only for the threads about health care, or the health care meeting protests. I have little respect for it after the various ad hominem arguments it has made, and the fact it seems to be a one-topic troll.
| 1170 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:10:34am |
re: #1139 iceweasel
I love that movie Pay it Forward. Good for you ice.
| 1171 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:10:47am |
re: #1165 Ward Cleaver
Why, they're all for it!
Seriously? I mean have they published an opinion one way or the other?
| 1172 |
Kosh's Shadow Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:11:41am |
re: #1139 iceweasel
One more thing. One time, a tech support person asked me to take a call from a customer (I'm an engineer). With tech support on the line, the customer ripped into the product and was nasty about it. I just listened, and said something neutral.
Now, this one was easy for me because I had been on the team that proposed a different concept for the product, and I did think it was crap. But I also was professional, and did NOT say that to the customer.
| 1173 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:12:05am |
re: #1155 Kosh's Shadow
I try not to take out anger on the clerks, even if I'm upset at the company.
Today I closed an account at a bank that added "dormant account fees". While I asked the teller if there was a way to tell the bank why I closed the account, I tried to be nice to her, and said that I know she doesn't set the policy. Everything went smoothly probably because I don't take it out on someone who doesn't deserve it.Now, "customer service" people who give me a hard time, that's a different matter.
yes, I feel the same way, probably because I once had a job like that. I try not to get angry at the hapless clerk, who I know is not making much money and has no power.
On the other hand, if someone who is actually in customer service is nasty, I get angry.
Even there though, I find the best policy is to ask for their full name (which they naturally don't want to give), and their supervisor's.Then I ask for the supervisor.
Suddenly they tend to be lots more helpful
On the other hand, none have yet claimed their supervisor's name is I.P. Freely, and that could happen. :)
| 1174 |
Ward Cleaver Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:12:10am |
re: #1171 Pianobuff
Seriously? I mean have they published an opinion one way or the other?
No, but seriously, I don't expect to hear any objections from them. It's a rare case when they take on liberals.
| 1176 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:13:37am |
re: #1171 Pianobuff
Seriously? I mean have they published an opinion one way or the other?
No, they haven't.
They're going to be ok with it, though. Just saying.
| 1177 |
wrenchwench Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:14:22am |
re: #1080 Killgore Trout
It's called "trout tickling"
I caught a salmon with my bare hands on a little creek flowing from Mt. Hood once. My technique resembled the little girl's in KenJen's video more than the trout tickler's though. My sister says I caught it "bear handed." She's my only witness. We threw it back, without the kiss.
| 1178 |
Dianna Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:14:23am |
re: #1166 JamesTKirk
Glad you liked that; a nanosecond after I posted it, I remembered that you "opted-out" from my "gutter humor" yesterday and I was getting ready to apologize.
That one was funny.
It's always hard to say exactly what makes something funny or not. I'm not mad at people when I say I'm opting out, I'm just not finding it funny, for whatever reason.
| 1179 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:14:45am |
re: #1169 Honorary Yooper
ha, a one topic troll. Need to get back to work - later
| 1180 |
Ward Cleaver Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:14:45am |
re: #1176 iceweasel
No, they haven't.
They're going to be ok with it, though. Just saying.
If Bush had done something like that, they'd be headed to court.
| 1181 |
debutaunt Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:14:50am |
re: #1154 Dianna
I didn't know that.
Not just an idiot, or a single-issue voter, then.
A narrow life-view, that's all.
| 1182 |
Kenneth Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:15:03am |
| 1183 |
Spenser (with an S) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:15:15am |
re: #1173 iceweasel
On the other hand, if someone who is actually in customer service is nasty, I get angry.
I hate it when customer service people start telling me about all the challenges they must overcome and hills they must climb to get my problem fixed. I don't call you up and explain the intricacies of my job, so please just tell me how we're going to get this done, OK?
| 1184 |
Ward Cleaver Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:15:29am |
re: #1177 wrenchwench
I caught a salmon with my bare hands on a little creek flowing from Mt. Hood once. My technique resembled the little girl's in KenJen's video more than the trout tickler's though. My sister says I caught it "bear handed." She's my only witness. We threw it back, without the kiss.
What, no lox? Dang.
| 1185 |
GGMac Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:15:36am |
re: #1042 thedopefishlives
Well, usually I come in here before everyone's had their coffee, so EVERYone's grumpy.
Missing Obi and his kindly rejoiner...
| 1186 |
yma o hyd Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:15:55am |
Thought you might like this:
Chavez hates golf, unlikely to gain Scotland as an ally
True true - Scotland and golf go together like Scotland and whisky.
| 1187 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:16:18am |
re: #1168 Sharmuta
I didn't say any of that. But if you can't debate civilly, be prepared for the consequences.
I tried. Even updinged her early on (#422) when she said something I agreed with about tort reform. But it takes two to tango, and I'm uncertain as to why Iceweasel is being portrayed as some sort of innocent victim martyr here, and the rest of us to be unfeeling brutes who ganged up on her for no reason (or for a blatantly false reason) when the comments freely available in this very thread clearly establish otherwise.
| 1188 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:16:24am |
re: #1144 Sharmuta
I think folks better get a grip regardless because it's obviously unwelcome. Nobody wants to spend their morning at LGF reading this stuff. I miss the days when overnight flame wars were the rarity, and we had fun in the mornings with lively debate about various topics. Now every morning is the opposite and it sucks. Leaves me, and possibly others, in a bad mood for the rest of the day. I'm sick of it, and I'm not alone.
I've found it's time sensitive. If you happen to log on with a opinion that is from a more liberal prospective at certain times, you'll get a lively debate that is fun to defend if you can. Other times, it's a dog pile, and you are buried in not only valid questions, but lots of personal crap that wears you out after a bit.
Still, this is the best blog on the net to be able to express a contrary opinion and survive. I think that's the reason LGF seems to get the issues correctly, not the left or right spin, but the facts. I've been corrected more than once, and I hope I've tossed in the occasional correctional comment myself.
| 1189 |
turn Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:16:31am |
| 1190 |
BlueCanuck Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:16:45am |
| 1191 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:16:47am |
re: #1150 JamesTKirk
So she has free liberty to lie, misrepresent, and insult; and the rest of us aren't allowed to be so uncivil as to call her on it? You think that's going to make anyone happy?
I have not lied, nor misrepresented, nor gone out of my way to insult people, and I object to you claiming that I have.
This is the last time I'll address you, as well.
| 1192 |
Dianna Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:16:54am |
re: #1181 debutaunt
A narrow life-view, that's all.
There are a lot of those. And - as we all know - there are those moments when we don't look outside our little ruts, either.
| 1193 |
Desert Dog Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:17:32am |
re: #1180 Ward Cleaver
If Bush had done something like that, they'd be headed to court.
No doubt...it would be run on a non stop loop the MSM as well.
| 1194 |
Honorary Yooper Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:17:41am |
re: #1162 Spenser (with an S)
There's some back-and-forth, but from what I've seen, it started with a few folks attacking her and throwing insults, usually regarding the health care. Now, some may legitimately think she is wrong (and I am one from time to time), but throwing around insults is not how to converse about it. Given the bombardment she has taken from these few, I wouldn't blame her if she felt a bit paranoid when these topics come up. I would too.
I think we do need to back away and take a deep breath, stop with the personnal attacks and the insults, realize that not everyone who disagrees (right or left) is out to get you, and get on with a civil, fact-based discussion.
| 1195 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:17:44am |
re: #1176 iceweasel
No, they haven't.
They're going to be ok with it, though. Just saying.
I started googling just to see if there's anything on the record. Nothing yet so I may give up.
I did find this, though, linked from ThinkProgress:
White House proposal to track government website users stirs fears
Doesn't look related though.
| 1196 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:18:22am |
re: #1178 Dianna
That one was funny.
It's always hard to say exactly what makes something funny or not. I'm not mad at people when I say I'm opting out, I'm just not finding it funny, for whatever reason.
I try to keep track of who appreciates my badinage and who doesn't (just about the only reason I bother checking dings), which is why (for example) MandyManners is one of the people I enjoy bantering with.
| 1197 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:18:39am |
re: #1180 Ward Cleaver
If Bush had done something like that, they'd be headed to court.
Disagree. Member of the ACLU here and super-into civil liberties.
The ACLU is bringing a few suits concerning some Obama admin decisions, though. So it's not true to claim they only are concerned with abuses by a Repub admin.
| 1198 |
wrenchwench Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:19:07am |
re: #1184 Ward Cleaver
What, no lox? Dang.
It was huge, and the thought of cleaning it, and they aren't very good when they're spawning anyway...I actually felt bad for disturbing it.
| 1199 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:19:53am |
re: #1163 Pianobuff
Has the ACLU weighed in on the whole forwarding of emails to the White House yet?
I see nothing that would concern the ACLU unless there was some unconstitutional use of a information request. i.e. if we see Obama order a IRS audit of Beck for example.
| 1201 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:20:33am |
re: #1197 iceweasel
Disagree. Member of the ACLU here and super-into civil liberties.
The ACLU is bringing a few suits concerning some Obama admin decisions, though. So it's not true to claim they only are concerned with abuses by a Repub admin.
My #1195 a possible example?
| 1202 |
Sharmuta Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:20:33am |
re: #1187 JamesTKirk
I tried. Even updinged her early on (#422) when she said something I agreed with about tort reform. But it takes two to tango, and I'm uncertain as to why Iceweasel is being portrayed as some sort of innocent victim martyr here, and the rest of us to be unfeeling brutes who ganged up on her for no reason (or for a blatantly false reason) when the comments freely available in this very thread clearly establish otherwise.
That's your perception. I haven't named anyone or assigned any blame.
| 1203 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:21:35am |
re: #1201 Pianobuff
My #1195 a possible example?
Yup. Updinged you for that right away for that reason, btw.
| 1204 |
eschew_obfuscation Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:21:57am |
re: #1171 Pianobuff
Seriously? I mean have they published an opinion one way or the other?
Here's a statement from the ACLU to Fox News on the subject (about 2/3 of the way down the page)...
The ACLU said in a statement to FOXNews.com that the White House blog is a "bad idea that could send a troublesome message."
But the organization added, "While it is unclear at this point what the government is doing with the information it is collecting, critics of the administration's health care proposal should not fear that their names will end up in some government database that could be used to chill their right to free speech."
| 1205 |
Desert Dog Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:22:31am |
re: #1199 avanti
I see nothing that would concern the ACLU unless there was some unconstitutional use of a information request. i.e. if we see Obama order a IRS audit of Beck for example.
Or, if we see the White House compile a list of people that disagree with them and then somehow take action against them because of their political beliefs.
I think the entire thing was poorly worded by the WH, but the fact that they have not really explained that very well is making people very suspicious.
| 1207 |
debutaunt Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:24:49am |
re: #1196 JamesTKirk
I try to keep track of who appreciates my badinage and who doesn't (just about the only reason I bother checking dings), which is why (for example) MandyManners is one of the people I enjoy bantering with.
The humor here at LGF has drawn in a lot of people and the rest is a lovely bonus.
| 1208 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:24:50am |
re: #1204 eschew_obfuscation
Right, issue here is this:
While it is unclear at this point what the government is doing with the information it is collecting, critics of the administration's health care proposal should not fear that their names will end up in some government database that could be used to chill their right to free speech.
I mean, this is the ACLU, people. They'd be the very first ones to leap on this if they thought it was an issue, and they already have lawsuits against the Obama admin on various civil liberties issues.
| 1209 |
jill e Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:25:13am |
| 1211 |
Sharmuta Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:25:29am |
re: #1188 avanti
There were times I was quite nasty to you in the past. I'm sorry. I admire your strength in sticking around, and appreciate your ability to let bygones be bygones. There are times I agree with you and times I don't, but I've found you to be intellectually honest for the most part.
| 1212 |
kansas Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:27:42am |
Since this is open. does anybody have any idea why there is such a big deal being made of 9 US Attorney's getting the axe under Bush? None of the breathless anti Bush/Rove articles I have read mention that it was illegal or unethical. Is the MSM just diverting attention from the Health Care CF?
| 1213 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:28:11am |
re: #1155 Kosh's Shadow
I try not to take out anger on the clerks, even if I'm upset at the company.
Today I closed an account at a bank that added "dormant account fees". While I asked the teller if there was a way to tell the bank why I closed the account, I tried to be nice to her, and said that I know she doesn't set the policy. Everything went smoothly probably because I don't take it out on someone who doesn't deserve it.Now, "customer service" people who give me a hard time, that's a different matter.
I am a Bitch From Hell to telemarketers, especially since I am on the "Do Not Call" list and some offshore assholes think they can call me anyway.
| 1214 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:28:29am |
re: #1197 iceweasel
Disagree. Member of the ACLU here and super-into civil liberties.
The ACLU is bringing a few suits concerning some Obama admin decisions, though. So it's not true to claim they only are concerned with abuses by a Repub admin.
Hmmm, they must be Right Wing Kooks!
| 1215 |
Neutral President Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:29:02am |
re: #1187 JamesTKirk
But it takes two to tango, and I'm uncertain as to why Iceweasel is being portrayed as some sort of innocent victim martyr here, and the rest of us to be unfeeling brutes who ganged up on her for no reason (or for a blatantly false reason) when the comments freely available in this very thread clearly establish otherwise.
Because she has been downdinged for comments as controversial as: "Good morning."
Thats asinine, she could be the Dark Lord Soros for all I care. It would be out of line.
| 1216 |
1SG(ret) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:29:08am |
re: #1205 Desert Dog
Which seems to be their MO on many issues. Better communications on any issue is the best policy. Leaving things open gets the opposition in an uproar which in many ways give them cover. Done on both sides of the aisle, and it sucks whoever does it.
| 1217 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:30:42am |
re: #1187 JamesTKirk
I tried. Even updinged her early on (#422) when she said something I agreed with about tort reform. But it takes two to tango, and I'm uncertain as to why Iceweasel is being portrayed as some sort of innocent victim martyr here, and the rest of us to be unfeeling brutes who ganged up on her for no reason (or for a blatantly false reason) when the comments freely available in this very thread clearly establish otherwise.
I see both sides, because I've been there. Part of the problem I had, and perhaps Ice does, is that one slight snark bounces off, but when you have a dozen coming in left and right, you might drop a "super snark" on one post, and it's off to the races as the Lizards circle the wagons.
I've found after a while, I just put a few of my biggest detractors on gaze, and brush off a reasonable snark or two without responding in kind. After all, Ice, me and others are from the dark side, and should not expect a rose garden when discussing politics on a Conservative blog.
| 1218 |
itellu3times Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:32:40am |
re: #1152 harpsicon
"The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost.
...
Palin citing Sowell? Kewl!
| 1219 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:33:11am |
re: #1217 avanti
I see both sides, because I've been there. Part of the problem I had, and perhaps Ice does, is that one slight snark bounces off, but when you have a dozen coming in left and right, you might drop a "super snark" on one post, and it's off to the races as the Lizards circle the wagons.
I've found after a while, I just put a few of my biggest detractors on gaze, and brush off a reasonable snark or two without responding in kind. After all, Ice, me and others are from the dark side, and should not expect a rose garden when discussing politics on a Conservative blog.
Avanti, you are not an insulting name caller. I have always found you to debate respectfully. That is a big difference.
| 1220 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:33:32am |
re: #1212 kansas
Since this is open. does anybody have any idea why there is such a big deal being made of 9 US Attorney's getting the axe under Bush? None of the breathless anti Bush/Rove articles I have read mention that it was illegal or unethical. Is the MSM just diverting attention from the Health Care CF?
No, this was an issue in 2006 (or 7?) then went away again until a bunch of docs were declassified this week-- I believe as the result of a lawsuit.
the issue is that the firings were politically motivated-- that bush fired them because they (allegedly) refused to pursue politically motivated charges of corruption against Dems and Dem candidates in close races, or they pursued those cases with insufficient zeal.
I can't say for sure how true that is as I didn't follow this especially closely, but that's the background.
| 1221 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:33:46am |
re: #1205 Desert Dog
Or, if we see the White House compile a list of people that disagree with them and then somehow take action against them because of their political beliefs.
I think the entire thing was poorly worded by the WH, but the fact that they have not really explained that very well is making people very suspicious.
Agreed, and it could have been fixed with a change in the text. Instead of "forward the e-mail", a "Please forward the contents of the e-mail" would do it.
| 1222 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:34:42am |
re: #1208 iceweasel
Right, issue here is this:
While it is unclear at this point what the government is doing with the information it is collecting, critics of the administration's health care proposal should not fear that their names will end up in some government database that could be used to chill their right to free speech.
I mean, this is the ACLU, people. They'd be the very first ones to leap on this if they thought it was an issue, and they already have lawsuits against the Obama admin on various civil liberties issues.
I read the article. Help me understand from your POV if there are any legal issues. In asking this I'm not implying anything about WH intentions, just wondering if from a pure legal standpoint this is completely hunky-dory or is there some odd relationship between the Privacy Act of 1974 and legal requirements for archival/records retention that present any technical legal conundrums. Has WH counsel itself made any official statements on this (which I presume would carry more weight than Gibbs/Burton/etc on this kind of matter)?
| 1223 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:35:34am |
re: #1212 kansas
Since this is open. does anybody have any idea why there is such a big deal being made of 9 US Attorney's getting the axe under Bush? None of the breathless anti Bush/Rove articles I have read mention that it was illegal or unethical. Is the MSM just diverting attention from the Health Care CF?
Ever watch a really good magician?
One of the most important techniques to learn is misdirection.
| 1224 |
laZardo Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:36:18am |
re: #1209 jill e
Obama bussed in supporters for New Hampshire town hall meeting.
And stopped several times to repair the suspension, I bet. q;
| 1225 |
eschew_obfuscation Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:36:44am |
re: #1220 iceweasel
No, this was an issue in 2006 (or 7?) then went away again until a bunch of docs were declassified this week-- I believe as the result of a lawsuit.
the issue is that the firings were politically motivated-- that bush fired them because they (allegedly) refused to pursue politically motivated charges of corruption against Dems and Dem candidates in close races, or they pursued those cases with insufficient zeal.
I can't say for sure how true that is as I didn't follow this especially closely, but that's the background.
What bugs me about this is that Clinton fired ALL the U.S. attorneys when he came into office and no one batted an eye. There's still no mention of it in most news items on the subject.
| 1226 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:37:16am |
re: #1225 eschew_obfuscation
What bugs me about this is that Clinton fired ALL the U.S. attorneys when he came into office and no one batted an eye. There's still no mention of it in most news items on the subject.
That's different. He's a Democrat.
| 1227 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:37:30am |
re: #1219 opnion
Avanti, you are not an insulting name caller. I have always found you to debate respectfully. That is a big difference.
Thanks, but I was mean on occasion right ever leaving the egg. I struck back a few times before becoming a real Lizard and learned to play nice.:)
| 1228 |
Silvergirl Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:37:51am |
re: #1209 jill e
Obama bussed in supporters for New Hampshire town hall meeting.
That's not entirely accurate. It was not a dog and pony show. It was a dog and unicorn show.
| 1229 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:39:44am |
re: #1221 avanti
Agreed, and it could have been fixed with a change in the text. Instead of "forward the e-mail", a "Please forward the contents of the e-mail" would do it.
Sure but-- how were they supposed to anticipate that people would genuinely believe this was an attempt by the gov't to track and keep info on dissenters?
I read a pretty good piece last night that said the truly frightening, and enlightening, thing about the townhalls, the nirthers, and the paranoia over this is that it all reveals that so many americans distrust the entire political process. They genuinely believe lies over facts. It doesn't matter how often the Republican Gov of HI affirms Obama was born there--people are in this culture and this place where the burden of proof is somehow on the gov't to show that they're NOT preparing a Logan's Run dystopia.
That does say something scary about where we are. BTW, I'm not saying this as an indictment of the right only, because the left is just as prone to insane theories and rumours and distrust of gov't, especially of late. (since 2000, I mean).
| 1230 |
Silvergirl Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:40:17am |
re: #1215 ArchangelMichael
Because she has been downdinged for comments as controversial as: "Good morning."
Thats asinine, she could be the Dark Lord Soros for all I care. It would be out of line.
Others have also been downdinged for innocuous remarks. People who object in words to what a poster has written are not in the same category as a crazed downdinger.
| 1231 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:42:03am |
re: #989 JamesTKirk
I used to make model airplanes.
I don't recall there being separate tubes of glue for the right wing, the left wing, nor the tail and cockpit.
My model airplanes always ended up like Calvin's from Calvin and Hobbes.
| 1232 |
debutaunt Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:43:08am |
re: #1212 kansas
Since this is open. does anybody have any idea why there is such a big deal being made of 9 US Attorney's getting the axe under Bush? None of the breathless anti Bush/Rove articles I have read mention that it was illegal or unethical. Is the MSM just diverting attention from the Health Care CF?
Clinton fired 93 US attorneys, but not for political reasons. (giggle)
| 1233 |
JamesTKirk Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:43:25am |
re: #1231 rwdflynavy
My model airplanes always ended up like Calvin's from Calvin and Hobbes.
Mine sometimes ended up permanently attached to my fingers. That was some strong glue.
| 1234 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:43:59am |
re: #1225 eschew_obfuscation
What bugs me about this is that Clinton fired ALL the U.S. attorneys when he came into office and no one batted an eye. There's still no mention of it in most news items on the subject.
Well, the pieces I've read about it always do mention that. They say it's standard (or at least precedented) for the incoming POTUS to fire them all. The Bush firings were weird because they weren't upon assuming office, and (allegedly) were punishment for not prosecuting Dems.
Again, I haven't looked into it so don't have an informed opinion as to how true that is (the reasons for the firings), but that's the story.
| 1235 |
Silvergirl Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:44:19am |
re: #1221 avanti
Agreed, and it could have been fixed with a change in the text. Instead of "forward the e-mail", a "Please forward the contents of the e-mail" would do it.
Snitchers wouldn't and won't take the time to copy and paste an email into their own snitch email. You can't stop in the middle of frenzied glee and take time for that.
| 1236 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:45:06am |
re: #1227 avanti
Thanks, but I was mean on occasion right ever leaving the egg. I struck back a few times before becoming a real Lizard and learned to play nice.:)
I have only seen you retaliate , as is your right. I have not ever seen you get gratuitously insulting.
| 1237 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:45:40am |
re: #1222 Pianobuff
I read the article. Help me understand from your POV if there are any legal issues. In asking this I'm not implying anything about WH intentions, just wondering if from a pure legal standpoint this is completely hunky-dory or is there some odd relationship between the Privacy Act of 1974 and legal requirements for archival/records retention that present any technical legal conundrums. Has WH counsel itself made any official statements on this (which I presume would carry more weight than Gibbs/Burton/etc on this kind of matter)?
I'll check it out (legal issues) right now and get back to you. BBIAB.
| 1238 |
1SG(ret) Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:45:55am |
re: #1225 eschew_obfuscation
What bugs me about this is that Clinton fired ALL the U.S. attorneys when he came into office and no one batted an eye. There's still no mention of it in most news items on the subject.
Which by law was his right to do. They served at his pleasure. Too bad the same law doesn't apply when exercised by a Republican President. Anyone believes Clinton fire all without any political motivations are living in a dream world. But hey that's the facts of politics in our country, the repubs have to play the hand dealt.
| 1239 |
Neutral President Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:46:13am |
re: #1230 Silvergirl
Others have also been downdinged for innocuous remarks. People who object in words to what a poster has written are not in the same category as a crazed downdinger.
Not too many others have been the victim of certain people going back through an entire overnight thread and down dinging every single comment they made regardless of content. That has happened to iDub... more than once... by people participating in this thread. They know who they are. That isn't honest debate or disagreement. It's childish and stupid. I'm not on 'her side' of the political isle but just as I don't have or support those with ODS I'm not going to turn a blind eye to people with IDS crying crocodile tears here.
| 1240 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:47:10am |
re: #1229 iceweasel
Sure but-- how were they supposed to anticipate that people would genuinely believe this was an attempt by the gov't to track and keep info on dissenters?
I read a pretty good piece last night that said the truly frightening, and enlightening, thing about the townhalls, the nirthers, and the paranoia over this is that it all reveals that so many americans distrust the entire political process. They genuinely believe lies over facts. It doesn't matter how often the Republican Gov of HI affirms Obama was born there--people are in this culture and this place where the burden of proof is somehow on the gov't to show that they're NOT preparing a Logan's Run dystopia.
That does say something scary about where we are. BTW, I'm not saying this as an indictment of the right only, because the left is just as prone to insane theories and rumours and distrust of gov't, especially of late. (since 2000, I mean).
I think it is possible to be distrustful without having to be a conspiracy theorist though, don't you? Distrust doesn't axiomatically equate to nirtherism or something, is it? Isn't there plenty of actual truth out there to cause one to be distrustful (and that's hopefully a non-partisan statment)?
| 1241 |
opnion Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:48:36am |
re: #1235 Silvergirl
Snitchers wouldn't and won't take the time to copy and paste an email into their own snitch email. You can't stop in the middle of frenzied glee and take time for that.
Correct, if your that in the tank for Obama to send it at all, why would you sanatize email addresses?
Anybody who thinks that it is "Kooky" paranoia to be suspicious here, just give me your credit card number, come on, trust me.
| 1242 |
Gang of One Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:48:59am |
re: #788 Pianobuff
There's also this...
Little girl at Obama town hall has not-so-random political connections
I posted a spinoff of this exact link last night, and Charles deleted it. In any event, it was not there after about half an hour.
| 1243 |
eschew_obfuscation Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:49:15am |
re: #1238 1SG(ret)
Which by law was his right to do. They served at his pleasure. Too bad the same law doesn't apply when exercised by a Republican President. Anyone believes Clinton fire all without any political motivations are living in a dream world. But hey that's the facts of politics in our country, the repubs have to play the hand dealt.
Oh, I quite agree Clinton had the right to do it, but to pretend, as you say, that there were only political motivations when Bush fired a few is sophistry at best.
| 1244 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:49:45am |
re: #1217 avanti
I see both sides, because I've been there. Part of the problem I had, and perhaps Ice does, is that one slight snark bounces off, but when you have a dozen coming in left and right, you might drop a "super snark" on one post, and it's off to the races as the Lizards circle the wagons.
I've found after a while, I just put a few of my biggest detractors on gaze, and brush off a reasonable snark or two without responding in kind. After all, Ice, me and others are from the dark side, and should not expect a rose garden when discussing politics on a Conservative blog.
I never have an issue debating politely with people who want to debate. I have no issue with vigorous debate (obviously).
It's a bit rough to deal with a group of people shitting on you every day, who then insist that you smile and say "thank you sir may I have another!" and demand that you hold out your plate for another big heaping pile of shit. And thank them for it.
I don't expect a rose garden, but I don't expect to have to live in the compost pile.
| 1245 |
eschew_obfuscation Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:51:34am |
re: #1244 iceweasel
I never have an issue debating politely with people who want to debate. I have no issue with vigorous debate (obviously).
It's a bit rough to deal with a group of people shitting on you every day, who then insist that you smile and say "thank you sir may I have another!" and demand that you hold out your plate for another big heaping pile of shit. And thank them for it.
I don't expect a rose garden, but I don't expect to have to live in the compost pile.
Heh... Little Green Compost Pile ... at least it SOUNDS like a Green idea ;-)
(just teasing... don't hit me)
| 1246 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:51:39am |
| 1247 |
Flyers1974 Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:54:22am |
re: #1212 kansas
Since this is open. does anybody have any idea why there is such a big deal being made of 9 US Attorney's getting the axe under Bush? None of the breathless anti Bush/Rove articles I have read mention that it was illegal or unethical. Is the MSM just diverting attention from the Health Care CF?
Its been a while since I thought about this, but I think the objection was that the manner they were fired was unorthodox and seemed suspicious - for example, in the past, all or most of the attorneys would be terminated at the start of the new administration. I think according to the law it is unethical to fire them for political reasons (although in fact I'm sure they've always been fired for political reasons, there was just no proof, since they were fired at the beginning under the guise of the new administration wanting its own people.) By retaining them and firing them later, it opened up the question of why it was done, if not for cause and if not for political reasons. I'm not swearing by any of this, but that is my recollection.
| 1248 |
irish rose Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:55:10am |
re: #1239 ArchangelMichael
Not too many others have been the victim of certain people going back through an entire overnight thread and down dinging every single comment they made regardless of content. That has happened to iDub... more than once... by people participating in this thread. They know who they are. That isn't honest debate or disagreement. It's childish and stupid. I'm not on 'her side' of the political isle but just as I don't have or support those with ODS I'm not going to turn a blind eye to people with IDS crying crocodile tears here.
I've logged back in specifically to upding your comment.
| 1249 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:55:21am |
re: #1240 Pianobuff
I think it is possible to be distrustful without having to be a conspiracy theorist though, don't you? Distrust doesn't axiomatically equate to nirtherism or something, is it? Isn't there plenty of actual truth out there to cause one to be distrustful (and that's hopefully a non-partisan statment)?
Oh totally-- like i said, I'm no blind Obama supporter and this (civil liberties) is one of my main issues. i have LOADS of criticisms of Obama on this front.
Distrust is good and healthy, IMO. Not seeing a real reason for concern as to this one issue though, even now.
BTW, still have to go look up the stuff you mentioned earlier before i can answer fully...remind me. I did read something somewhere that went through all the legal stuff and concluded there was no legal issue here.
| 1250 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:55:26am |
re: #1239 ArchangelMichael
Not too many others have been the victim of certain people going back through an entire overnight thread and down dinging every single comment they made regardless of content. That has happened to iDub... more than once... by people participating in this thread. They know who they are. That isn't honest debate or disagreement. It's childish and stupid. I'm not on 'her side' of the political isle but just as I don't have or support those with ODS I'm not going to turn a blind eye to people with IDS crying crocodile tears here.
Hey, it's survivable. I was once headed to a minus 2000 Karma and clawed my way back, so we're becoming better at not trying to drive off the Commies. Wait, I haven't been called a Commie in a long time now that I think about it.
| 1251 |
Pianobuff Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:59:40am |
re: #1249 iceweasel
Oh totally-- like i said, I'm no blind Obama supporter and this (civil liberties) is one of my main issues. i have LOADS of criticisms of Obama on this front.
Distrust is good and healthy, IMO. Not seeing a real reason for concern as to this one issue though, even now.
BTW, still have to go look up the stuff you mentioned earlier before i can answer fully...remind me. I did read something somewhere that went through all the legal stuff and concluded there was no legal issue here.
Appreciate it. Volokh has a take on it here, in case you're interested.
| 1252 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 9:59:40am |
re: #1245 eschew_obfuscation
Heh... Little Green Compost Pile ... at least it SOUNDS like a Green idea ;-)
Sounds like a band name!
| 1253 |
avanti Wed, Aug 12, 2009 10:00:52am |
re: #1244 iceweasel
I never have an issue debating politely with people who want to debate. I have no issue with vigorous debate (obviously).
It's a bit rough to deal with a group of people shitting on you every day, who then insist that you smile and say "thank you sir may I have another!" and demand that you hold out your plate for another big heaping pile of shit. And thank them for it.
I don't expect a rose garden, but I don't expect to have to live in the compost pile.
Take a chill pill Ice, you are doing fine considering. It once got so rough, I got a nice apology from a Lizard after being called a pretty rude name, and we get along fine now. Just try and stay civil on your end, and it'll pay off in a few weeks. Just remember, you're in the Cowboys section, wearing a Redskin's T shirt.
| 1254 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Aug 12, 2009 10:02:36am |
| 1255 |
Neutral President Wed, Aug 12, 2009 10:03:29am |
re: #1253 avanti
Just remember, you're in the Cowboys section, wearing a Redskin's T shirt.
Updinged for that analogy.
| 1257 |
SixDegrees Wed, Aug 12, 2009 10:12:29am |
re: #1212 kansas
Since this is open. does anybody have any idea why there is such a big deal being made of 9 US Attorney's getting the axe under Bush? None of the breathless anti Bush/Rove articles I have read mention that it was illegal or unethical. Is the MSM just diverting attention from the Health Care CF?
It's a big deal because Bush did it. Period. End of story.
Clinton did precisely the same thing during his term. The attorneys serve at the pleasure of the President, and he is free to can them whenever he sees fit, for any reason or for no reason at all.
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