Overnight Open Thread
The quality of moral behaviour varies in inverse ratio to the number of human beings involved.
— Aldous Huxley
The quality of moral behaviour varies in inverse ratio to the number of human beings involved.
— Aldous Huxley
1 | Digital Display Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:28:16pm |
I always post on the end of open threads...Not the beginning..
Good Morning Lizards!
2 | Desert Dog Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:30:49pm |
re: #1 HoosierHoops
I always post on the end of open threads...Not the beginning..
Good Morning Lizards!
Try not to be the first AND last post too...
4 | SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:34:04pm |
Your text to link...Anyone see this? Apparently Anwar Sadat's daughter is deeply offended that there is a dog named after her father in "I Love You, Man".
Me, I'm only baffled.
Apparently, his nephew thinks it's no biggie.
I know the Turkish community rumbled a bit when "Pearls Before Swine", the comic strip, had a llama named Ataturk. That I didn't get at all.
My mother, trying to be empathetic, asked how we would feel if the llama was named Golda Meir.
"Confused", I said.
6 | Desert Dog Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:35:34pm |
More Aldous!
An unexciting truth may be eclipsed by a thrilling lie.
-Aldous Huxley
Beauty is worse than wine, it intoxicates both the holder and beholder.
-Aldous Huxley
7 | Desert Dog Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:37:55pm |
One more...can't resist:
Cynical realism is the intelligent man's best excuse for doing nothing in an intolerable situation.
-Aldous Huxley
8 | freetoken Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:38:12pm |
Did everyone know that Yoga can cure swine flu?
Yoga can cure swine flu: Baba Ramdev
/it's moonbat day...
9 | Bagua Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:38:20pm |
Candy is Dandy but Liquor is Quicker
- Ogden Nash
10 | Bagua Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:40:02pm |
re: #8 freetoken
I didn't even know that pigs could dance.
Bold, conservative Bachmann hints at 'Mrs. President' future
12 | austin_blue Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:41:35pm |
The quality of moral behaviour varies in inverse ratio to the number of human beings involved.
— Aldous Huxley
Well, we have certainly seen that recently on crucial matters of public policy, haven't we?
13 | freetoken Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:43:19pm |
re: #10 Bagua
All I will say about Ms. Bachmann is that she is on the looney fringe of the right.
14 | austin_blue Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:43:56pm |
re: #9 Bagua
Candy is Dandy but Liquor is Quicker
- Ogden Nash
Reflections on Diaper Changing:
A bit of talcum
Is always walcome
And the shortest poem in the English Language:
Fleas
Adam Had'm
15 | Bagua Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:45:16pm |
re: #13 freetoken
The link was to a dancing pig, I had left the Bachmann title in by mistake from some-one's post.
16 | Digital Display Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:45:30pm |
re: #3 Bagua
Didn't you already say goodnight?
Only to other lizards..I'm wide awake and may go swimming shortly..:)
17 | SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:45:50pm |
Four be the things I am wiser to know,
Happiness, sorrow, a friend and a foe.
Four be the things I'd been better without,
Love, curiousity, freckles and doubt.
Three be the things I shall never attain,
Envy, content and sufficient champagne.
Three be the things I shall have till I die,
Laughter and hope, and a sock in the eye.
My grandmother and I used to chant Dorothy Parker together.
18 | austin_blue Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:46:22pm |
re: #16 HoosierHoops
Only to other lizards..I'm wide awake and may go swimming shortly..:)
Mmmm... water...
What's that like?
19 | Bagua Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:47:20pm |
re: #16 HoosierHoops
Only to other lizards..I'm wide awake and may go swimming shortly..:)
Steady on man, restrain yourself from doing anything reckless.
21 | austin_blue Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:48:46pm |
re: #20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Evening all, how goes it?
Down in Texas, it's hot dry, and, bitter. Much like Hillary, without the heat.
22 | Digital Display Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:49:16pm |
re: #18 austin_blue
Mmmm... water...
What's that like?
Don't hate me..We have a 6 person hot tub on the deck...I'm this close to turning on rock and roll and staring out at the starry night..
Then swimming laps..don't be hating...LOL
Hope you are well tonight
23 | HelloDare Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:49:32pm |
The quality of moral behaviour varies in inverse ratio to the number of human beings involved.— Aldous Huxley
There are 435 members of the House of Representatives. And 100 Senators.
25 | Desert Dog Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:50:25pm |
The New US Navy, Aqua-Unicorn Squad, the bad guys are really screwed now.
26 | Digital Display Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:50:49pm |
27 | austin_blue Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:50:53pm |
re: #17 SanFranciscoZionist
Four be the things I am wiser to know,
Happiness, sorrow, a friend and a foe.Four be the things I'd been better without,
Love, curiousity, freckles and doubt.Three be the things I shall never attain,
Envy, content and sufficient champagne.Three be the things I shall have till I die,
Laughter and hope, and a sock in the eye.My grandmother and I used to chant Dorothy Parker together.
"All I need is an apartment large enough to lay my hat and a few friends."
28 | Dancing along the light of day Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:51:25pm |
re: #17 SanFranciscoZionist
I like that a LOT.
Thank you.
*clink*
Champagne glasses
29 | Bagua Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:52:06pm |
re: #21 austin_blue
Down in Texas, it's hot dry, and, bitter. Much like Hillary, without the heat.
And hot and wet and humid. Texas is a nasty place.
30 | Desert Dog Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:53:09pm |
re: #22 HoosierHoops
Don't hate me..We have a 6 person hot tub on the deck...I'm this close to turning on rock and roll and staring out at the starry night..
Then swimming laps..don't be hating...LOL
Hope you are well tonight
If we had a pool, I would be in it now too. Current temp, Phoenix, AZ. Should I run through the sprinklers instead?
31 | Fenway_Nation Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:53:55pm |
re: #29 Bagua
And this is just seconds after I find out some of the railways now have entry-level positions available in Texas.
Thanks, Captain buzzkill.
33 | Dancing along the light of day Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:54:38pm |
re: #30 Desert Dog
Running through the sprinklers, or a slip and slide. Egads, the choices! Get wet, young Lizard, get wet!
LOL!
34 | austin_blue Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:54:58pm |
re: #22 HoosierHoops
Don't hate me..We have a 6 person hot tub on the deck...I'm this close to turning on rock and roll and staring out at the starry night..
Then swimming laps..don't be hating...LOL
Hope you are well tonight
I'm good! She Who Must Be Obeyed is still out of town and so I the cat and I are sitting in our underwear looking at a computer screen. Rented "Shooter" tonight. A little heavy on the corporate control of Amerika, but shit blew up real good.
35 | Digital Display Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:55:20pm |
re: #32 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
So anyone else see District 9 yet?
No read the reviews...Peter Jackson Produced it...How was it? I heard it was freaking great
36 | Bagua Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:55:51pm |
re: #31 Fenway_Nation
Save yourself the torture, unless the reward is great.
37 | Desert Dog Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:56:06pm |
re: #32 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
So anyone else see District 9 yet?
Tomorrow NO SPOILERS!!! please!
38 | Dancing along the light of day Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:56:16pm |
re: #32 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Taking the 16 y/o geek boy to see it tomorrow. Based on your reccomendation. I'm excited. It's been a LONG time since I've seen a movie in a the-a-tre!
39 | Kragar Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:57:42pm |
re: #35 HoosierHoops
No read the reviews...Peter Jackson Produced it...How was it? I heard it was freaking great
I thought it was great, wife enjoyed it. Took a little bit to get started but never let up after that. Sharpto did a really good job portraying Wikus. They actually paid attention to things like character and plot development and it shows
40 | NelsFree Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:57:45pm |
re: #25 Desert Dog
The New US Navy, Aqua-Unicorn Squad, the bad guys are really screwed now.
They are saying, "GET OUT OF MY WAY!!" I believe them. I have nar(whal)y a doubt about it.
41 | Kragar Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:58:49pm |
42 | SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:58:59pm |
re: #40 NelsFree
I would get out of the way of that. Good grief.
43 | Fenway_Nation Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:59:17pm |
re: #36 Bagua
Meh...no garuntee the reward's gonna be great, but it can't be too much worse than my current double-digit unemployment blue state with gun-control laws that border on the patronizing...
44 | Bagua Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:59:19pm |
45 | Desert Dog Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:00:15am |
re: #44 Bagua
oh oh,
looks like the unicorns are melting faster than predicted.
Naa, they're just eating all the drown polar bears
46 | SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:00:21am |
re: #44 Bagua
oh oh,
looks like the unicorns are melting faster than predicted.
On the other hand, they seem to be adapting. Look at 'em go!
47 | Fenway_Nation Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:01:30am |
48 | Bagua Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:01:54am |
re: #43 Fenway_Nation
What state is that?
I find the holster gets all sticky and clingy in the hot/humid/hell.
49 | NelsFree Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:02:20am |
re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist
I would get out of the way of that. Good grief.
Aboard the USS VIRGINIA: "Control, Sonar. We got large mammals at 010, up doppler, and large pointy things."
C.O.:" Get the SEAL team ready with extremely large olives, on the double!"
50 | Digital Display Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:03:14am |
re: #39 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I thought it was great, wife enjoyed it. Took a little bit to get started but never let up after that. Sharpto did a really good job portraying Wikus. They actually paid attention to things like character and plot development and it shows
The background is amazing...After getting dumped from the 147 million dollar movie Halo because of a freud between Sony and Universal..Peter was major motivated to go old school sci-fi script...Reviewers have lauded the first Sci-fi in years that alluded to social issues like the 60's and 70's.
I hear another script is in the works
51 | austin_blue Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:03:53am |
re: #38 Floral Giraffe
Taking the 16 y/o geek boy to see it tomorrow. Based on your reccomendation. I'm excited. It's been a LONG time since I've seen a movie in a the-a-tre!
Don't know where you are, but you should insist on some entrepeneur to get on to this franchise:
[Link: www.drafthouse.com...]
It is the absolute killer bee of adult movie going. You get food and drink served at your seat. No kids. Sucking down a Guinness and watching a flick is absolutely delightful.
Oh, and my down the street neighbor Tim League invented the concept. Smart boy.
52 | Desert Dog Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:04:02am |
No, it's not Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, it's Death Masks of the rich and famous.
I must...stop...StumbleOn...must...stop...click...click...click...
53 | NelsFree Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:05:05am |
re: #50 HoosierHoops
The background is amazing...After getting dumped from the 147 million dollar movie Halo because of a freud between Sony and Universal..
I'm afraid you made a feudian slip.
/h
54 | Digital Display Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:06:09am |
55 | Desert Dog Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:06:46am |
re: #50 HoosierHoops
The background is amazing...After getting dumped from the 147 million dollar movie Halo because of a freud between Sony and Universal..Peter was major motivated to go old school sci-fi script...Reviewers have lauded the first Sci-fi in years that alluded to social issues like the 60's and 70's.
I hear another script is in the works
We have uncovered footage of your last pool party, Hoosier. You and your pals are regular pool party animals!
56 | SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:07:17am |
Hoos, if we can ask, what kind of dog is Winston?
57 | freetoken Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:07:51am |
58 | Fenway_Nation Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:08:14am |
re: #48 Bagua
The wonderfully bankrupt state of California...
59 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:08:42am |
re: #51 austin_blue
LOL! We're going to see the movie in "neuveux riche" AK Newport Beach. But, we just visit, for the amenities, don't you know! We don't live there, just visit!
60 | Bagua Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:09:57am |
More signs of the apocalypse
61 | Kragar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:10:19am |
re: #50 HoosierHoops
The background is amazing...After getting dumped from the 147 million dollar movie Halo because of a freud between Sony and Universal..Peter was major motivated to go old school sci-fi script...Reviewers have lauded the first Sci-fi in years that alluded to social issues like the 60's and 70's.
I hear another script is in the works
Blomkamp has two other short films similar to the one which led to District 9 out already.
Yellow
Tetra Vaal
62 | Syrah Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:12:08am |
re: #8 freetoken
Did everyone know that Yoga can cure swine flu?
Yoga can cure swine flu: Baba Ramdev
/it's moonbat day...
Yoga will only make the Swine Flu more limber.
63 | Digital Display Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:12:38am |
re: #56 SanFranciscoZionist
Hoos, if we can ask, what kind of dog is Winston?
woops sorry...missed your question..He is a 6 lb Chihuahua...He is a long haired and thinks he is the cock of the walk..A buddy dumped him off on me... With the kids all grown up he fits in just fine...I think he likes it here
64 | NelsFree Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:13:28am |
...aaand:
2,000 posts!
Woot woot!
*Party Horn*
Now I want to dance the Salsa with Sharmuta!
65 | Desert Dog Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:13:50am |
No True Scotsman would miss this soup du jour
66 | SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:15:09am |
re: #63 HoosierHoops
woops sorry...missed your question..He is a 6 lb Chihuahua...He is a long haired and thinks he is the cock of the walk..A buddy dumped him off on me... With the kids all grown up he fits in just fine...I think he likes it here
Awww. I'd like a place with a pool and my own little boat too.
67 | Desert Dog Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:15:31am |
re: #63 HoosierHoops
woops sorry...missed your question..He is a 6 lb Chihuahua...He is a long haired and thinks he is the cock of the walk..A buddy dumped him off on me... With the kids all grown up he fits in just fine...I think he likes it here
They had the Adopt a Chihuahua people down at Petsmart today...so cute. I ALMOST got one...Mrs. Desert Dog stopped me...she is evil, I tell you, EVIL! (just kidding). I could not stop looking at the little guys.
68 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:16:28am |
re: #63 HoosierHoops
And, you love him, like nothing else on this earth. So he's great. HH's dog. Have boat, will float. ( Just watch out for that cannon ball!!!)
;)
69 | austin_blue Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:17:09am |
re: #64 NelsFree
...aaand:
2,000 posts!
Woot woot!
*Party Horn*
Now I want to dance the Salsa with Sharmuta!
I just hit 1,000. I'm not really sure if that is significant or if it means that I spend too much time in my underwear in front of the computer...
70 | Fenway_Nation Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:18:36am |
re: #69 austin_blue
Whoa...thank you for that disclosure from the Freedom of Too Much Informaton Act...
71 | austin_blue Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:19:22am |
re: #69 austin_blue
I just hit 1,000. I'm not really sure if that is significant or if it means that I spend too much time in my underwear in front of the computer...
Although dancing the salsa with Sharmuta does sound attractive. I mean, by her nic alone...
72 | Bagua Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:19:26am |
re: #69 austin_blue
You really should try to get out of the house more.
73 | austin_blue Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:20:46am |
re: #70 Fenway_Nation
Whoa...thank you for that disclosure from the Freedom of Too Much Informaton Act...
Well, ya know , it's that 2 AM time of honesty...
74 | SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:20:47am |
OK. Time for me to go to bed. Tomorrow is another day. I hope for it to be the day on which I get my kitchen clean.
75 | Digital Display Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:21:28am |
re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist
OK. Time for me to go to bed. Tomorrow is another day. I hope for it to be the day on which I get my kitchen clean.
Weet dreams
77 | Fenway_Nation Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:24:04am |
re: #73 austin_blue
Look...enough about you sitting around in your underwear. Can we talk about Carrie Prejean so I can gratuitously mention that I dated a beauty pageant contestant while in high school? Or Gov. Sanford so that I can gratutiously bring up the out-of-my-league Argentine hottie I hooked up with?
78 | NelsFree Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:24:08am |
re: #66 SanFranciscoZionist
Awww. I'd like a place with a pool and my own little boat too.
Here you go!
79 | Kragar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:25:17am |
A love song for the President of Iran
[Link: www.hulu.com...]
81 | BignJames Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:26:17am |
re: #77 Fenway_Nation
Look...enough about you sitting around in your underwear. Can we talk about Carrie Prejean so I can gratuitously mention that I dated a beauty pageant contestant while in high school? Or Gov. Sanford so that I can gratutiously bring up the out-of-my-league Argentine hottie I hooked up with?
Well, her family has the dough...not him.
82 | Digital Display Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:26:23am |
Thank God for Twitter! Did you know that Megan Fox had Tuna for lunch today? She hates Salad dressing..
/
83 | Fenway_Nation Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:27:02am |
84 | NelsFree Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:28:48am |
re: #82 HoosierHoops
Thank God for Twitter! Did you know that Megan Fox had Tuna for lunch today? She hates Salad dressing..
/
You mean, THIS
[Link: search.aol.com...]
Megan Fox???
/
85 | Kragar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:30:47am |
re: #82 HoosierHoops
Thank God for Twitter! Did you know that Megan Fox had Tuna for lunch today? She hates Salad dressing..
/
AMAZING!
/
86 | austin_blue Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:31:32am |
re: #72 Bagua
You really should try to get out of the house more.
Oh, I do! But this particular summer has been really brutal. Hot, I'm used to. We had 50 days of 100 degrees last summer. Two of them were over 103. Lived with it. This year we have had something over 55 days greater than 100, and 18 have been greater than 103.
We have a Domicile Challenged member of the neighborhood named Monk the Drunk (self appelation), who lives in the East Bouldin Creek Greenbelt and has for years. If you need odd jobs done, Monk is your man. Ran into him the other day and he was looking rough. "Monk, how you doing?", I asked. "Goddam!, sez Monk. "It's hippie killin' hot!!".
Yes it is.
87 | BignJames Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:32:47am |
88 | NelsFree Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:33:13am |
Well, having surpassed 2001 posts, I must embark on my own little Space Odyssey. Open the Pod Bay Doors, HAL! G'nite all.
89 | austin_blue Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:33:48am |
re: #77 Fenway_Nation
Look...enough about you sitting around in your underwear. Can we talk about Carrie Prejean so I can gratuitously mention that I dated a beauty pageant contestant while in high school? Or Gov. Sanford so that I can gratutiously bring up the out-of-my-league Argentine hottie I hooked up with?
Oh, absolutely! We are waiting with bated breath.
(Well except for the cat. It is looking smug with Tuna breath.)
90 | Digital Display Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:37:14am |
re: #89 austin_blue
Oh, absolutely! We are waiting with bated breath.
(Well except for the cat. It is looking smug with Tuna breath.)
What happened to the good old days when a Governor could use the State Police to shuttle in the bad girls? Trips to Central America? Look the way the economy is you have to be looking at the economy of Motel 6.
91 | Desert Dog Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:38:02am |
Out of Africa...all of us, apparently?
African tribe populated rest of the world
Research by geneticists and archaeologists has allowed them to trace the origins of modern homo sapiens back to a single group of people who managed to cross from the Horn of Africa and into Arabia. From there they went on to colonise the rest of the world.
Genetic analysis of modern day human populations in Europe, Asia, Australia, North America and South America have revealed that they are all descended from these common ancestors.
92 | ArchangelMichael Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:42:05am |
re: #91 Desert Dog
Creationist and racist head-spinning in 4, 3, 2...
93 | BatGuano Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:43:02am |
re: #91 Desert Dog
I'm an African-American. I knew it. And I'm tired of being hassled by the man!
94 | austin_blue Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:45:08am |
re: #90 HoosierHoops
What happened to the good old days when a Governor could use the State Police to shuttle in the bad girls? Trips to Central America? Look the way the economy is you have to be looking at the economy of Motel 6.
Ah, the old Texas. Things have changed. I blame it on the New Media.
95 | Digital Display Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:45:55am |
I can't believe how smart Guth of MIT is...Been watching a special on him on a science channel...He is the guy that explained expansion after the big bang..
How he explains the 4 major forces after the big bang is awesome..He figured out that at 1 second into the explosion the temp was 1 billion degrees..
He draws the timeline out to today..Frigging genius
96 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:48:31am |
re: #92 ArchangelMichael
I think there is at least a small percentage of the anti-evolution crowd that opposes the idea for racists reasons.
Accepting that we have a common ancestor with certain primates also means that all human races are directly related by that common ancestor, which I am sure is a pill far too large to swallow for racists of any stripe.
97 | austin_blue Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:48:55am |
re: #95 HoosierHoops
I can't believe how smart Guth of MIT is...Been watching a special on him on a science channel...He is the guy that explained expansion after the big bang..
How he explains the 4 major forces after the big bang is awesome..He figured out that at 1 second into the explosion the temp was 1 billion degrees..
He draws the timeline out to today..Frigging genius
Science!
But that all happened 6000 years ago so things have cooled down *really* fast.
///
98 | ArchangelMichael Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:51:26am |
re: #96 Slumbering Behemoth
I think there is at least a small percentage of the anti-evolution crowd that opposes the idea for racists reasons.
Accepting that we have a common ancestor with certain primates also means that all human races are directly related by that common ancestor, which I am sure is a pill far too large to swallow for racists of any stripe.
That's a reason why the Darwinism leads to Nazis and Eugenics argument has always seemed moronic in it's conception to me.
99 | ArchangelMichael Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:52:16am |
101 | Digital Display Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:54:11am |
re: #97 austin_blue
Science!
But that all happened 6000 years ago so things have cooled down *really* fast.
///
Guth figured the math so elegantly...We know for a fact that 1 second after the Big bang the temp of the universe was one Billion degrees...
To watch him explain it on the science channel to today was really cool..That dude is smart..Not as smart as Dr. C..but pretty dang smart.
102 | BignJames Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:54:37am |
re: #91 Desert Dog
Not me...I'm a Scientologist...what's that planet I'm supposed to be from?
104 | Digital Display Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:56:59am |
Dark energy is just a code word for our ignorance..
Guth from MIT is a genius
105 | BignJames Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:58:21am |
re: #103 ArchangelMichael
Aren't they we called Thetans...or something?
106 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:00:03am |
re: #100 Desert Dog
That's a commercial? I've seen so much of that in real life, I don't even remember what sex without a condom feels like.
/although, to be honest, I am having a hard time remembering what sex with a partner feels like...
107 | austin_blue Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:00:20am |
re: #101 HoosierHoops
Guth figured the math so elegantly...We know for a fact that 1 second after the Big bang the temp of the universe was one Billion degrees...
To watch him explain it on the science channel to today was really cool..That dude is smart..Not as smart as Dr. C..but pretty dang smart.
Any good teacher (and many scientists are horrible teachers) is a godsend. The problem is that not that many people watch the shows and some of them that do don't believe it. Around 40% of the American population does not really believe in evolution. Guess which party they make up the base for?
108 | ArchangelMichael Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:00:29am |
re: #105 BignJames
Yeah Thetans. I read somewhere that Xenu's planet was called Yiffcon IV though. Not sure if that's actually really part of Psychoentology or something someone made up in a parody though.
109 | Desert Dog Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:01:59am |
re: #106 Slumbering Behemoth
That's a commercial? I've seen so much of that in real life, I don't even remember what sex without a condom feels like.
/although, to be honest, I am having a hard time remembering what sex with a partner feels like...
Married here...got the "snip" after #3
And, Mrs. Desert Dog still thinks I am "pogi" I am lucky, lucky, lucky!
110 | ArchangelMichael Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:02:22am |
re: #104 HoosierHoops
Dark energy is just a code word for our ignorance..
Guth from MIT is a genius
One of many codewords to describe the same thing that we don't entirely get...
Dark Energy
Exotic Matter
Averaged Null Energy Condition Violation
Casimir Effect
The Cosmological Constant
111 | freetoken Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:02:53am |
re: #91 Desert Dog
A long debated subject - how many pulses of H. sapiens made it out of Africa?
BTW, that series (referenced in the article) is available on DVD (as well as on the internet.)
112 | BignJames Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:03:36am |
re: #108 ArchangelMichael
Yeah Thetans. I read somewhere that Xenu's planet was called Yiffcon IV though. Not sure if that's actually really part of Psychoentology or something someone made up in a parody though.
Kinda' hard to tell the difference.
113 | Desert Dog Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:04:22am |
re: #111 freetoken
A long debated subject - how many pulses of H. sapiens made it out of Africa?
BTW, that series (referenced in the article) is available on DVD (as well as on the internet.)
I looked it up on the BBC website...it aired in May of this year and looks really interesting.
115 | austin_blue Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:06:01am |
re: #108 ArchangelMichael
Yeah Thetans. I read somewhere that Xenu's planet was called Yiffcon IV though. Not sure if that's actually really part of Psychoentology or something someone made up in a parody though.
I just want to earn enough enough money so that I can lay out $10 million so I can I get a ride on the boat! That must be wicked cool!
116 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:08:17am |
re: #109 Desert Dog
Congrats on the family, and your luck.
I've never been married, and have never fathered a child, and I am more than happy with that.
Many people have told me I would make a great father. I tell them that they have never seen me tired, cranky, at the end of my rope, and completely ready to lose my shit over the next little thing that irritates me.
Not everyone is cut out to be a spouse and/or a parent.
117 | freetoken Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:08:27am |
re: #113 Desert Dog
Available from Amazon UK at a very reasonable price:
118 | Sharmuta Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:11:32am |
re: #117 freetoken
Available from Amazon UK at a very reasonable price:
Interesting. What role do neanderthals play in the film?
119 | freetoken Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:12:05am |
One of the reviews from the Amazon UK site, for The Incredible Human Journey:
By N. A. Khan "slayerboy" (London, England) - See all my reviews
I watched this with great excitement hoping for some new ground breaking theories and revelations. Having studied Human Evolution a few years ago I found this series a rehash of all the existing evidence and theories that were around then. There was nothing fresh or interesting about this (except the presenter)and I found any theory that Dr Alice didnt agree with she was determined to prove wrong (eg the Homo Erectus in China). Typical scientist and in fact anyone studying human evolution-they have a closed mind and make the evidence fit in with their own theories. The bones they have found are fragmentary and are meshed together to look like 'species' and 'prototype' humans to fit in with this 'theory' that we did come from Apes. Why do you have to force the evidence if it is the truth? The whole field of human evolution is about egos and money and self service and this programme did nothing to aleviate these opinions and impression I have. Very disappointing.
Ooops... I guess the series stepped on somebody's doctrine toes?
120 | Digital Display Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:13:26am |
re: #110 ArchangelMichael
One of many codewords to describe the same thing that we don't entirely get...
Dark Energy
Exotic Matter
Averaged Null Energy Condition Violation
Casimir Effect
The Cosmological Constant
Dr. C has been struggling with TOE...(Theory of everything) The 4 major forces that separated at the Big Bang cannot be reconciled...Gravity will not join back with the math...Try this...
Gravity equals 9.8 meters per second per second on Earth.. Gravity will kill you..Jump off a building...Yet as strong as gravity is..Take a tiny little magnet and you can pick up a paperclip..just like like...The whole mass of the Earth can't stop the power of a little magnet picking up a paperclip..
The math is maddening..Every movent of any body is space can be explained with math..We just don't know why...
121 | freetoken Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:13:43am |
re: #118 Sharmuta
Not seen it... just researching it based on the above recommended Telegraph article. From the Telegraph article and the Amazon description, sounds like a pretty straightforward treatment of Neandertals (i.e., H. sapiens displaced them.)
122 | freetoken Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:16:07am |
re: #110 ArchangelMichael
Dark Energy
Exotic Matter
Averaged Null Energy Condition Violation
Casimir Effect
The Cosmological Constant
Bold faced items are not the same as the other three (which indeed may be different aspects/approaches to one particular phenomenon.)
123 | Digital Display Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:16:58am |
re: #120 HoosierHoops
Dr. C has been struggling with TOE...(Theory of everything) The 4 major forces that separated at the Big Bang cannot be reconciled...Gravity will not join back with the math...Try this...
Gravity equals 9.8 meters per second per second on Earth.. Gravity will kill you..Jump off a building...Yet as strong as gravity is..Take a tiny little magnet and you can pick up a paperclip..just like like...The whole mass of the Earth can't stop the power of a little magnet picking up a paperclip..
The math is maddening..Every movent of any body is space can be explained with math..We just don't know why...
Maybe every time a lizard posts at 4am LGF forces you to spell check...
dang it!
124 | Sharmuta Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:18:40am |
re: #121 freetoken
Indeed. The article is impressive. The neanderthal co-mingling hypothesis looks SOL.
125 | freetoken Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:22:48am |
re: #124 Sharmuta
Unless better preserved specimens of neandertals can be found, so that complete DNA can be harvested and sequenced, there will always be questions.
It is always possible that in the very northern reaches of Norway or Russia there may be a body (or body part) still frozen... who knows?
/off to watch some videos...
126 | freetoken Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:25:35am |
Before I go watch the videos... one piece that ought to have made it in the spin-offs (but I hit my limit of 3):
[...]
There is acknowledgement that the US China trade relationship needs to be rebalanced, but little imagination on how to proceed. Deep down, our leaders and policymakers have convinced themselves that for all its flaws, the old system was better than anything we are going to think of, and that simply restoring confidence will fix everything, at least for as long as they remain in office.
The right lesson from Lehman should be that the global financial system needs major changes in regulation and governance. The current safety net approach may work in the short term but will ultimately lead to ballooning and unsustainable government debts, particularly in the US and Europe.
Asia may be willing to sponsor the west for now, but not in perpetuity. Eventually Asia will find alternatives in part by deepening its own debt markets. Within a few years, western governments will have to sharply raise taxes, inflate, partially default, or some combination of all three. As painful as it may seem, it would be far better to start bringing fundamentals in line now. Restoring confidence has been helpful and important. But ultimately we need a system of global financial regulation and governance that merits our faith.
127 | Digital Display Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:25:43am |
Well I'm never up to see ads at 4:30am on cable...
childfund.org was a powerful charity ad I saw...Very moving...I need to check them out
128 | austin_blue Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:46:40am |
Adios Lizrdii. Time for a very long schluff.
129 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:55:48am |
re: #127 HoosierHoops
Well I'm never up to see ads at 4:30am on cable...
childfund.org was a powerful charity ad I saw...Very moving...I need to check them out
Be wary. Request their literature, brochures, etc. If it appears too fancy, uses more that two or three ink colors on the same page (a big deal and big expense in the printing industry), uses multiple techniques in their print material, like foil, embossing, slick (smooth) and textured surfaces on the same cover (also big deal and a big expense in the printing industry), then they are certainly spending more of those donations on advertising their brand than they are on actually helping people. Also, high-quality print stock should be a warning sign.
A lot of these things can be a scam, and they are designed to pull at your heart-strings. You can learn a lot about their true intent simply by viewing the printing sophistication (or lack thereof) of their literature.
130 | littleoldlady Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:00:02am |
Fruitcup! and all that jazz... → → → → →
134 | freetoken Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:03:15am |
135 | littleoldlady Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:03:37am |
F'ing peachy! ;-)
How's by you, Uncle Rancher?
137 | UncleRancher Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:05:18am |
re: #135 littleoldlady
Great! We had our first "feed" off the corn patch yesterday. About 3 dozen people consumed about 5 dozen ears. Great fun. Hardly made a dent in the corn patch.
138 | littleoldlady Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:06:44am |
We had our first "feed" off the corn patch yesterday
I thought you were talking about DEER.
/you would be if you lived around here...
//what do you do about deer?
139 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:08:43am |
140 | UncleRancher Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:08:47am |
re: #138 littleoldlady
The deer have not touched the corn. They come by and eat the chard down to the ground and if the tomatoes were not behind a very tall fence they would eat those too, but so far no action on the corn. They will eat the corn off the cob if you take the husks off but that's it. We have very pershickety deer.
142 | Syrah Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:12:09am |
re: #130 littleoldlady
Fruitcup! and all that jazz... → → → → →
Fruit cup is here!
I will feast then sleep.
A happy Lizard, content that as long as there is Fruit-cup, there is peace and joy in some part of the world.
Many thanks for the Fruit cup.
Goodnight all.
143 | littleoldlady Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:12:18am |
Good golly! TRAINED DEER!
/who knew?!
;-)
144 | littleoldlady Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:12:59am |
Syrah! :-)
My horrorscope said not to pick any fights today...
;-)
149 | Coquimbojoe Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:32:18am |
Hellooo Lizards of the night! Just stopping in for a fruitcup...
151 | Fenway_Nation Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:33:28am |
Sorry...left to make myself a pineapple screwdriver and...well...I'm pretty easily distracted...
152 | littleoldlady Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:36:14am |
re: #151 Fenway_Nation
At least it has fruit in it...
Speaking of which, how's that Fruitcupitron working?
/I'm thinking of retiring
153 | BignJames Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:38:48am |
re: #138 littleoldlady
I thought you were talking about DEER.
/you would be if you lived around here...
//what do you do about deer?
You mean other than hitting them with my car?
154 | littleoldlady Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:40:52am |
re: #153 BignJames
BignJames! :-)
I'd call it DINNER! except around here they all have ambulance-chasing lawyers...
155 | BignJames Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:50:05am |
re: #154 littleoldlady
I've known people that have hunted deer for years...and never seen one...I've hit 3 with my car.
156 | UncleRancher Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:52:57am |
re: #155 BignJames
Winter before last we had deer in the yard every night for a couple of months. One night I counted 19 head. There were just a few last winter.
157 | Fenway_Nation Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:53:12am |
re: #152 littleoldlady
At least it has fruit in it...
Speaking of which, how's that Fruitcupitron working?
/I'm thinking of retiring
Umm...well...let's just say don't retire yet...
158 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:53:36am |
Really like pretty much the entire bibliography, but moral lectures from Huxley...yeahhh. The quality of his moral behaviour and thought seemed to defy his own rule well enough but being elitist somehow better than the rabble. Soviet central planner hoo-ray. Well I guess he ended up a disillusioned Henry Georgian with the good sense to move to the US.
And Julian...yeeesh!
159 | littleoldlady Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:57:10am |
re: #155 BignJames
A few years back talloldman went hunting with the guyz up in the Poconos. Calls me first day of deer season and says, "I didn't see ONE deer today!" (They usually get smart by Day 2, not Day 1.)
While I'm talking to him I'm looking out the kitchen window at FIVE deer. They should have had balloon captions over their heads..."Heh™"
160 | BignJames Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:57:42am |
re: #156 UncleRancher
There's a fairly large herd that traverses my place in the mornings and evenings, moving from a creek bottom to pastureland and back.
161 | UncleRancher Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:57:52am |
re: #152 littleoldlady
At least it has fruit in it...
Speaking of which, how's that Fruitcupitron working?
/I'm thinking of retiring
We were feeding the deer in the middle of the winter with a little left over corn. Every night they showed up looking for a hand out. All the neighbors were "helping" them too. So they made the rounds cleaning up all the tidbits.
Feed 'em fruitcup and you get the same effect!
162 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:58:56am |
re: #155 BignJames
I've known people that have hunted deer for years...and never seen one...I've hit 3 with my car.
163 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:00:35am |
Why do disillusioned lefties write the best dystopian novels?
164 | UncleRancher Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:00:53am |
re: #162 Cannadian Club Akbar
I've missed a few about that close. So far I've been lucky. It does wake you up!
165 | littleoldlady Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:01:19am |
166 | BignJames Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:01:56am |
re: #159 littleoldlady
I've got a cousin that got up one morning to go deer hunting...as he's getting dressed he sees one in his back yard...eases the window open...and shoots it from his bedroom. His wife was not amused.
167 | littleoldlady Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:03:10am |
re: #166 BignJames
My neighbors would have turned me in...
168 | UncleRancher Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:03:10am |
re: #166 BignJames
I've got a cousin that got up one morning to go deer hunting...as he's getting dressed he sees one in his back yard...eases the window open...and shoots it from his bedroom. His wife was not amused.
Yup. There was blood and guts everywhere, all over the patio furniture.
169 | BignJames Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:04:08am |
re: #162 Cannadian Club Akbar
Really...you don't see 'em...next thing you know...they're a hood ornament.
170 | BignJames Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:05:48am |
re: #167 littleoldlady
My neighbors would have turned me in...
He lives on the edge of Sumter Natl. Forest...and his wife was still asleep.
171 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:07:51am |
re: #169 BignJames
Really...you don't see 'em...next thing you know...they're a hood ornament.
We have a road down here I used to travel for work. Wild pigs everywhere. Plus, we were putting in new houses at the time, so we basically took away their homes. Dude on a Harley had a huge boar run into his path. They are both gone now.
172 | littleoldlady Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:08:32am |
re: #170 BignJames
One of my brothers in law lives not too far from here, and his property backs up to a private wooded area.
Thanks to his trusty crossbow he has meat for the entire winter.
/with my luck (and skill) I'd spear my foot! ;-)
173 | BignJames Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:10:26am |
re: #171 Cannadian Club Akbar
Know a guy that t-boned a mule one night...he lived...mule didn't.
174 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:10:41am |
re: #172 littleoldlady
One of my brothers in law lives not too far from here, and his property backs up to a private wooded area.
Thanks to his trusty crossbow he has meat for the entire winter.
/with my luck (and skill) I'd spear my foot! ;-)
Don't do that! You'd be stuck until someone came home!
175 | UncleRancher Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:10:45am |
re: #169 BignJames
That happens a lot. So far the ones I have avoided I saw because I was looking for them and was ready to hit the brakes. There are certain corridors where the deer are moving up or down a draw and the probability of seeing deer is much higher than any place else. These are not always well marked.
176 | littleoldlady Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:12:47am |
CC Akbar! :-)
Yeah, you're right. I'd get hungry.
/and probably have to pee, too ;-)
177 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:12:48am |
re: #175 UncleRancher
That happens a lot. So far the ones I have avoided I saw because I was looking for them and was ready to hit the brakes. There are certain corridors where the deer are moving up or down a draw and the probability of seeing deer is much higher than any place else. These are not always well marked.
They should capture and release deer after painting them with reflective paint.
/
178 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:13:00am |
re: #166 BignJames
I've got a cousin that got up one morning to go deer hunting...as he's getting dressed he sees one in his back yard...eases the window open...and shoots it from his bedroom. His wife was not amused.
At work in St. Helens deer came buy the shop all the time. This fucktard there throws some salt licks into the field to bait them in. One day at break he pulls his bow out of his truck and shoots one through the chain link fence. I did not realize what he was doing. Deer know it's not deer season so they wander around without a care and easy prey, but the arrow deflected a little when going through the fence and is a thru and thru really low and it ran off. The bastard goes back to work. I hassled him for about two hours to go finish the poor thing off. Talk about how illegal what he had done finally got him to leave. took him more than five hours to track it down. It was still alive behind some dumpsters in downtown St. Helens.
Tried to give me all this crap about how he really needed the meat and it wasn't really illegal in 10 different way so don't call the cops...
coulda jabbed him in the belly with a fork and dumped him in the woods.
happy ending was his house he was selling in Vernonian got wiped out during the flood before the last flood in Vernonia. It was a day before escrow close and he had dropped the insurance. Karma.
179 | BignJames Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:16:35am |
re: #172 littleoldlady
I trapped a raccoon that was getting on my porch and eating the dog's food. I called the county Wildlife Agent...he said I couldn't take it somewhere else to let it go...it was illegal...coon might have rabies, and nobody want's your possibly rabid coon. I asked what I should do? He said.."Shoot, Shovel, Silence."
180 | BignJames Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:20:15am |
re: #178 spidly
Good. Guy's not a hunter...he's a poacher.
181 | UncleRancher Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:21:18am |
re: #178 spidly
I think I know that place. It's out there northwest of Scappoose isn't it?
182 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:21:39am |
re: #179 BignJames
I had friends visiting and their dog was attacked by the neighbors dog. I called animal control and they said I had every right to shoot the dog. She said she couldn't do anything until the next morning. I asked if the reason for not being able to do anything had anything to do with the fact the Super Bowl was on. She said yes. I never capped the dog, but I put a shot right next to a paw.
183 | littleoldlady Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:23:03am |
re: #179 BignJames
At least they were polite about it. I called CritterControl about an obviously sick possum that was in my backyard. "What would you like me to do about it?", the guy says.
I guess I could have been more understanding. This was during the time there were numerous reports of a cougar roaming around in the county. Those poor folks were going nuts trying to follow up on all the calls.
184 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:24:12am |
re: #180 BignJames
Good. Guy's not a hunter...he's a poacher.
poacher dick asswipe. Also best buds with the foreman and tangentially related to the owner. so for self preservation and the fact that I wasn't going to get anyone there on my side to prove anything anyway... no cops.
He's assed out in Arizona now paying for a Vernonia house that no longer exists. Or he's filed for bankruptcy. anyway.
185 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:24:21am |
re: #181 UncleRancher
I think I know that place. It's out there northwest of Scappoose isn't it?
yep
186 | littleoldlady Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:28:45am |
That's it for me, folks! I going to try and get some weeding done before it hits 90° today...
Good day, ALL!™
187 | BignJames Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:28:56am |
re: #183 littleoldlady
Rumor is the Wildlife folks have surrepitiously released cougars in these parts...though I doubt it.
188 | UncleRancher Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:31:30am |
Have a good one. It's time for some shut-eye so I can deal with all that corn tomorrow. ;-)
190 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:33:53am |
re: #183 littleoldlady
At least they were polite about it. I called CritterControl about an obviously sick possum that was in my backyard. "What would you like me to do about it?", the guy says.
I guess I could have been more understanding. This was during the time there were numerous reports of a cougar roaming around in the county. Those poor folks were going nuts trying to follow up on all the calls.
They're lifting the dog hunting ban for Cougar here in Oregon. After a few years the kitties got out of hand and I think finally someone influential must have gotten their lhasa apso et or something. Repealed without voter approval.
191 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:35:25am |
re: #189 BignJames
I wouldn't worry about Ana, the models have it staying weak and possibly moving into the gulf, but Bill might be looking for you.
[Link: www.baynews9.com...]
192 | HelloDare Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:41:43am |
re: #134 freetoken
You still around? I replied to a comment you made on the previous thread.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Dyson wrote the foreword to Gold's book in 2001.
194 | HelloDare Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:47:56am |
re: #193 Cannadian Club Akbar
Not derived from living organisms. Oil is not a fossil fuel.
195 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:50:44am |
re: #194 HelloDare
Not derived from living organisms. Oil is not a fossil fuel.
But it works like regular oil?
196 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:51:59am |
re: #193 Cannadian Club Akbar
What is Abiotic oil?
think I had that rubbed all over me in an indonesian brothel...
did I say that out loud?
197 | BignJames Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:52:54am |
re: #191 Cannadian Club Akbar
I wouldn't worry about Ana, the models have it staying weak and possibly moving into the gulf, but Bill might be looking for you.
[Link: www.baynews9.com...]
We could use the rain from a tropical system.
198 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:54:15am |
re: #197 BignJames
We could use the rain from a tropical system.
They think Bill could reach CAT 3, but there is a high pressure system in the Atlantic that could suck it up and send it to its grave.
199 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:54:49am |
re: #196 spidly
think I had that rubbed all over me in an indonesian brothel...
did I say that out loud?
That's funny right there. Heh.
200 | HelloDare Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:55:01am |
re: #195 Cannadian Club Akbar
Gold's theory is that oil, all oil, is not derived from decayed vegetation and dinosaurs.
Here's what Wikipedia has to say. [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
201 | gatorbait Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:55:37am |
Is it not obvious that a bunch of partisan bastards seek to grab a massive piece of the economy to both create two new mobs of fools: one mob who are more dependent on the state for greater entitlement and a second mob who are employed by the state to feed the first mob. Both mobs love Big Brother and will vote for him and his cronies forever. One State, One Party, One Leader. God help us.
202 | BignJames Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:56:11am |
re: #198 Cannadian Club Akbar
They think Bill could reach CAT 3, but there is a high pressure system in the Atlantic that could suck it up and send it to its grave.
Yeah...the famed "Bermuda High"
203 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:57:05am |
re: #195 Cannadian Club Akbar
But it works like regular oil?
I haven't heard of it before today, but i think it is something akin to the thermolytic depolymerization changing world technologies is doing but is supposedly a natural process?
I don't know fer sure. gotta look it up.
204 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:59:21am |
re: #203 spidly
I still want to see what the results of using lasers on a hydrogen molecule like they are doing at Lawrance Livermore Labs in California.
205 | gregb Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:04:26am |
re: #19 Bagua
Steady on man, restrain yourself from doing anything reckless.
What? Like chasing the dogs around the yard in nothing but shorts trying to get a screaming oppossum away from them at 4am with a dying flashlight type reckless?
206 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:04:38am |
re: #198 Cannadian Club Akbar
They think Bill could reach CAT 3, but there is a high pressure system in the Atlantic that could suck it up and send it to its grave.
I was in Disneyworld for Fay. Brilliant. I don't think I could have withstood the normal weather which I experienced on the last day there. oppressive humidity.
short lines! summit plummit over and over in 80 degree rain 'til my ass was bruised.
sister is going back this week. I might consider dropping things and joining her if it times out right.
207 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:05:35am |
re: #204 Cannadian Club Akbar
I still want to see what the results of using lasers on a hydrogen molecule like they are doing at Lawrance Livermore Labs in California.
If you get it wrong, I think they call the result the sun.
208 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:06:16am |
re: #201 gatorbait
My friend works for the skool board and is nearing his 20 years, thus pension. And they are up his ass about every detail. I told him to be careful because they want to keep budgets down and will fire him if they can. He didn't believe me at first, because he was drunk. The next day he asked me to tell him again. Now he is worried. He was going from one job to another and stopped and checked his mail (he was waiting for a big check). 30 seconds at the most. Someone reported him. He got suspended for 2 weeks and is now on probation.
209 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:08:29am |
re: #206 spidly
I was in Disneyworld for Fay. Brilliant. I don't think I could have withstood the normal weather which I experienced on the last day there. oppressive humidity.
short lines! summit plummit over and over in 80 degree rain 'til my ass was bruised.
sister is going back this week. I might consider dropping things and joining her if it times out right.
Faye was a slow mover. I went to a friends house the day after it "hit" and it was still there. I said WTF, I thought this thing was gone. Nope.
210 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:08:32am |
re: #205 gregb
What? Like chasing the dogs around the yard in nothing but shorts trying to get a screaming oppossum away from them at 4am with a dying flashlight type reckless?
I bet you throw some fun parties.
211 | HelloDare Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:09:10am |
re: #203 spidly
I haven't heard of it before today, but i think it is something akin to the thermolytic depolymerization changing world technologies is doing but is supposedly a natural process?
I don't know fer sure. gotta look it up.
No, quite the opposite. As I recall, the kind of oil CWT gets from their process is of a different structure than oil found in the earth. The isomers are right-handed when they should be left-handed, or vice versa.
212 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:10:59am |
re: #209 Cannadian Club Akbar
Faye was a slow mover. I went to a friends house the day after it "hit" and it was still there. I said WTF, I thought this thing was gone. Nope.
we were there for 10 days, only gone our last day there
213 | gregb Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:11:43am |
re: #182 Cannadian Club Akbar
I had friends visiting and their dog was attacked by the neighbors dog. I called animal control and they said I had every right to shoot the dog. She said she couldn't do anything until the next morning. I asked if the reason for not being able to do anything had anything to do with the fact the Super Bowl was on. She said yes. I never capped the dog, but I put a shot right next to a paw.
I had a pit bull clamp onto one of my dogs in the middle of the night that wouldn't let go no matter how much it was sprayed. My neighbor, retired Anaheim PD, was unholstered and going to put one between the eyes except the guy who was walking it on a papier machete of a leash was laying on top of it begging him not too as my dog was yelping it's butt off. What finally broke them apart was a full can of pepper spray.
It was the talk of the neighborhood for a couple of weeks. Nightime drama, who needs it?
214 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:14:09am |
re: #212 spidly
we were there for 10 days, only gone our last day there
We have a tropical storm off the coast near me right now, but it is moving away. Bummer.
215 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:16:13am |
re: #214 Cannadian Club Akbar
We have a tropical storm off the coast near me right now, but it is moving away. Bummer.
Ana's going away?
216 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:16:43am |
re: #213 gregb
The guy who owned the dog lives right next to me. I have seen the cops looking for him as he hid on top of his house. Luckily, we all have 5 acre lots, so I don't see him.
217 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:18:24am |
re: #215 MandyManners
Ana's going away?
No, but it might run over top of Cuba which is a hurricane killer because of the mountains. It could hit the gulf and grow, but it doesn't look good.
219 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:19:32am |
re: #217 Cannadian Club Akbar
No, but it might run over top of Cuba which is a hurricane killer because of the mountains. It could hit the gulf and grow, but it doesn't look good.
Has Cuba ever been devestated by a hurricane under Castro and have we helped them?
220 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:19:44am |
re: #217 Cannadian Club Akbar
No, but it might run over top of Cuba which is a hurricane killer because of the mountains. It could hit the gulf and grow, but it doesn't look good.
cuba's good for something
221 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:22:13am |
re: #219 MandyManners
Has Cuba ever been devestated by a hurricane under Castro and have we helped them?
Cuba uses our weather reports out of Miami. I know they have been hit. I am sure we have helped them, but I don't recall anything off the top of my head.
222 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:24:02am |
223 | freetoken Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:24:20am |
224 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:24:44am |
225 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:26:53am |
re: #221 Cannadian Club Akbar
Cuba uses our weather reports out of Miami. I know they have been hit. I am sure we have helped them, but I don't recall anything off the top of my head.
I remember we helped Iran after that earthquake in Bam that killed more than 20,000. Didn't we also send a lot of grain to the Soviets after a bad harvest in the 1970s?
226 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:28:36am |
re: #225 MandyManners
I remember we helped Iran after that earthquake in Bam that killed more than 20,000. Didn't we also send a lot of grain to the Soviets after a bad harvest in the 1970s?
Iran, yes. Russia, I don't recall. But also, Iran wouldn't accept anything from Israel as far as relief aid.
227 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:30:23am |
228 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:30:44am |
re: #222 MandyManners
Desi Arnaz.
dashing looking mass murderers for idiots to emblazon on t-shirts and newspaper boxes?
yeah so Che was Argentinian, but he got his body count for social justice cred in Cuba.
229 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:31:25am |
re: #226 Cannadian Club Akbar
Iran, yes. Russia, I don't recall. But also, Iran wouldn't accept anything from Israel as far as relief aid.
I'm sure that broke the Israelis' hearts.
The grain issue I'm trying to recall was during--IIRC--Carter's term.
230 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:32:11am |
re: #228 spidly
dashing looking mass murderers for idiots to emblazon on t-shirts and newspaper boxes?
yeah so Che was Argentinian, but he got his body count for social justice cred in Cuba.
Someone posted buttons that you can buy calling Che a douche, but I couldn't find them online.
231 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:34:38am |
re: #228 spidly
dashing looking mass murderers for idiots to emblazon on t-shirts and newspaper boxes?
yeah so Che was Argentinian, but he got his body count for social justice cred in Cuba.
232 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:35:16am |
re: #229 MandyManners
I'm sure that broke the Israelis' hearts.
The grain issue I'm trying to recall was during--IIRC--Carter's term.
Also, during the Tsunami a few years ago, Americans gave more money for aid through the Red Cross then the gubment did. I know I made my contribution, then sent my email reciept to everyone I knew. One of my friends gave $1 more then I did, just to be an asshole. But he gave when he normally wouldn't think about it.
233 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:36:47am |
re: #230 Cannadian Club Akbar
Someone posted buttons that you can buy calling Che a douche, but I couldn't find them online.
An LGF spinoff Che-Mickey
234 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:37:05am |
This is the CIA document discussing the situation in 1964.
[Link: www.faqs.org...]
235 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:37:48am |
re: #232 Cannadian Club Akbar
Also, during the Tsunami a few years ago, Americans gave more money for aid through the Red Cross then the gubment did. I know I made my contribution, then sent my email reciept to everyone I knew. One of my friends gave $1 more then I did, just to be an asshole. But he gave when he normally wouldn't think about it.
Yet Holdren calls us the greediest nation.
236 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:37:48am |
237 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:39:16am |
re: #235 MandyManners
Yet Holdren calls us the greediest nation.
Holdren is an angry little bitch. Fuck him. I wonder how much he gives to charity.
238 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:40:57am |
Not greediest but, stingiest. Same thing.
But the intervening years have not been pleasant ones for such as Holdren. In a 1995 article co-written with Paul Ehrlich, he lists among the factors preventing a "sustainable" world such "Underlying human frailties" as "Greed, selfishness, intolerance, and shortsightedness." These, he expounds, "collectively have been elevated by conservative political doctrine and practice (above all in the United States in 1980 92) to the status of a credo."
Holdren blasted his country last January before the AAAS as "the stingiest among all" wealthy nations in its development of the Third World, making us "the meanest of wealthy countries." He summed up his view of the U.S. budget by favorably quoting Robert Kates: "Too much for warfare, too little for welfare."
239 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:41:33am |
re: #236 spidly
not sure if Barry or Cuba should be nuked for that one
I figured someone would wanna' nuke me for posting that.
240 | wahabicorridor Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:42:27am |
re: #235 MandyManners
Yet Holdren calls us the greediest nation.
Yeah. The guy who speculated about putting sterilizing drugs in the public water supply has how many kids?
Five.
Count 'em.
morning lizards.
241 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:42:45am |
re: #238 MandyManners
Guess he didn't hear about the 15 billion Bush gave to Africa for Aids medicines and education.
242 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:43:39am |
re: #237 Cannadian Club Akbar
Holdren is an angry little bitch. Fuck him. I wonder how much he gives to charity.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's very little. From the link in my No. 238, he sounds like the kind who wants to destroy private charity in exchange for more government aid.
243 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:45:26am |
re: #242 MandyManners
I wouldn't be surprised if it's very little. From the link in my No. 238, he sounds like the kind who wants to destroy private charity in exchange for more government aid.
Zero already hinted at that, dropping tax write offs for charity. Plus, see the cash for clunkers. Many of those cars could be useful to poorer people.
244 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:47:12am |
re: #240 wahabicorridor
Yeah. The guy who speculated about putting sterilizing drugs in the public water supply has how many kids?
Five.
Count 'em.
morning lizards.
But, he's a special science guy! Breeding for the cognoscenti is to be encouraged.
BTW, are the elite in China bound by the one-child law?
245 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:48:18am |
re: #241 Cannadian Club Akbar
Guess he didn't hear about the 15 billion Bush gave to Africa for Aids medicines and education.
It doesn't fit the meme.
246 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:50:02am |
re: #243 Cannadian Club Akbar
Zero already hinted at that, dropping tax write offs for charity. Plus, see the cash for clunkers. Many of those cars could be useful to poorer people.
That idea stirred up a lot of people during the early days of the administration. IIRC, the idea wasn't to drop it altogether but restrict it somewhat. Either way, it was an indication of FCBBHO's desire for a nanny state. I see this "reform" in the same light.
247 | callahan23 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:50:13am |
re: #233 spidly
An LGF spinoff Che-Mickey
Drive-by comment:
The design of the Che-Mickey-Mouse is from The Dissident Frogman his blog and this topic.
IIRC
248 | wahabicorridor Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:51:37am |
re: #244 MandyManners
BTW, are the elite in China bound by the one-child law?
Actually, I believe they are. I've worked with some people from mainland China and asked them that very question, got an "Oh, absolutely' answer.
Whether or not it's true is anyone's guess, but the people I knew believe it to be true.
249 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:53:02am |
re: #248 wahabicorridor
Actually, I believe they are. I've worked with some people from mainland China and asked them that very question, got an "Oh, absolutely' answer.
Whether or not it's true is anyone's guess, but the people I knew believe it to be true.
And if the offspring isn't the sex you wanted the child to be, there are programs in place to help.
250 | freetoken Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:53:36am |
HelloDare - if you are still here... I wrote an even longer entry downstairs, regarding Dyson.
251 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:53:43am |
re: #238 MandyManners
Yeahhh... Holdren.
Don't wonder about those end of life talks in HR3200 whatsoever, we've got this guy advising the president and his views not eerily similar to any disgusting people in the past. Schtoopid Deathers! Turn over your medical care, he's here to help.
252 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:55:12am |
re: #243 Cannadian Club Akbar
Zero already hinted at that, dropping tax write offs for charity. Plus, see the cash for clunkers. Many of those cars could be useful to poorer people.
I saw a really strange temporary license plate the other day on the back of a Scion XB. While others have just the number and a bit of small print, this tag was filled with print and it had the words along the lines of "FOR THE STATE OF [BLAH]". Was this a car purchased under the CFC program?
253 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:56:44am |
re: #248 wahabicorridor
Actually, I believe they are. I've worked with some people from mainland China and asked them that very question, got an "Oh, absolutely' answer.
Whether or not it's true is anyone's guess, but the people I knew believe it to be true.
If true, it sounds like they're true believers.
255 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:57:55am |
re: #251 spidly
Yeahhh... Holdren.
Don't wonder about those end of life talks in HR3200 whatsoever, we've got this guy advising the president and his views not eerily similar to any disgusting people in the past. Schtoopid Deathers! Turn over your medical care, he's here to help.
That stuff worries me but, not as much as his more recent statements and writings in the FrontPage article.
256 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:59:17am |
re: #249 Cannadian Club Akbar
And if the offspring isn't the sex you wanted the child to be, there are programs in place to help.
One of those unintended consequences of mandating human behavior is that villages are loaded with men who can find no one to marry.
257 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:59:39am |
re: #244 MandyManners
But, he's a special science guy! Breeding for the cognoscenti is to be encouraged.
BTW, are the elite in China bound by the one-child law?
Holdren and Zeke will take care of you, you decentralized limited government free-market nazi.
258 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:59:44am |
re: #254 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'd never seen anything like it before.
259 | wahabicorridor Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:00:10am |
re: #249 Cannadian Club Akbar
And if the offspring isn't the sex you wanted the child to be, there are programs in place to help.
I get a kick out of the pundits saying China will overtake the US as the world's superpower.
The demographics are horrific. Far too many men who will never be able to marry due to lack of females. The water issues are beyond fixing which bodes ill for agriculture and dense population in metropolitan areas.
I just laugh. They've grown fast but it isn't sustainable.
260 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:00:11am |
re: #255 MandyManners
That stuff worries me but, not as much as his more recent statements and writings in the FrontPage article.
I haven't seen that
261 | wahabicorridor Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:01:24am |
re: #255 MandyManners
That stuff worries me but, not as much as his more recent statements and writings in the FrontPage article.
missed that article. got a link?
262 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:02:31am |
re: #252 MandyManners
I saw a really strange temporary license plate the other day on the back of a Scion XB. While others have just the number and a bit of small print, this tag was filled with print and it had the words along the lines of "FOR THE STATE OF [BLAH]". Was this a car purchased under the CFC program?
we had some dealers around here sending cars off with dealer plates because the gummint checks weren't coming. They wanted to be able to take the cars back without them being considered used. Maybe dealers plate?
263 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:02:42am |
re: #257 spidly
Holdren and Zeke will take care of you, you decentralized limited government free-market nazi.
Reading Ezekiel's article in the Hasting Center publication* shocked me--talk about denial of care to those who are not productive citizens.
*This idea was also featured in one of his books. A Lizard printed an excerpt. I'll try to find it.
264 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:03:10am |
265 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:03:24am |
266 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:03:58am |
re: #262 spidly
we had some dealers around here sending cars off with dealer plates because the gummint checks weren't coming. They wanted to be able to take the cars back without them being considered used. Maybe dealers plate?
No, this was not a dealer plate. It was paper.
267 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:04:47am |
re: #263 MandyManners
Reading Ezekiel's article in the Hasting Center publication* shocked me--talk about denial of care to those who are not productive citizens.
*This idea was also featured in one of his books. A Lizard printed an excerpt. I'll try to find it.
Don't want that crapstick near my schul. WTF is up with that! You think he'd see the irony?
268 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:05:44am |
re: #263 MandyManners
Reading Ezekiel's article in the Hasting Center publication* shocked me--talk about denial of care to those who are not productive citizens.
*This idea was also featured in one of his books. A Lizard printed an excerpt. I'll try to find it.
It was an article, not a book.
The Lancet, Volume 373, Issue 9661, Pages 423 - 431, 31 January 2009.
269 | wahabicorridor Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:06:37am |
re: #265 MandyManners
thank you - reading now and bookmarked in my 'czars' folder
270 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:07:02am |
re: #267 spidly
Don't want that crapstick near my schul. WTF is up with that! You think he'd see the irony?
It takes a lot for my jaw to drop to my knees but, my jaw did drop reading his stuff. Has he no sense of history?
271 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:07:44am |
re: #269 wahabicorridor
thank you - reading now and bookmarked in my 'czars' folder
I'm back up to near my 2,500 limit in my links.
272 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:08:35am |
re: #270 MandyManners
It takes a lot for my jaw to drop to my knees but, my jaw did drop reading his stuff. Has he no sense of history?
nope, and Jewish no less. fucking retard.
273 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:09:25am |
274 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:09:43am |
re: #270 MandyManners
It takes a lot for my jaw to drop to my knees but, my jaw did drop reading his stuff. Has he no sense of history?
never again! unless I'm in charge...
275 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:11:34am |
re: #273 MandyManners
His own brother Rahm was in the IDF.
thinking he and Rahm are a candidates for striking from the book of life...well maybe a bit harsh for now.
276 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:15:07am |
maybe we'll get David Duke as "Racial Relations Czar"
good a choice as any made thus far
277 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:15:28am |
re: #275 spidly
thinking he and Rahm are a candidates for striking from the book of life...well maybe a bit harsh for now.
278 | gregb Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:16:43am |
re: #210 MandyManners
I bet you throw some fun parties.
I could probably make a mean pineapple screwdriver (just by guessing what the ingredients might be).
279 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:17:42am |
re: #277 MandyManners
big family of crapsticks
Ari could be mini-prop czar with his hollywood connections
280 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:18:08am |
re: #277 MandyManners
Living in Florida, we get spring training baseball. When I waited tables, agents would be with young kids, 18-21 or so, trying to be their agent. They are whores.
281 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:20:04am |
282 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:20:11am |
Here is the Hasting Center article from 1996.
[Link: findarticles.com...]
283 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:20:56am |
re: #278 gregb
I could probably make a mean pineapple screwdriver (just by guessing what the ingredients might be).
Another good use of pineapple is Cutty Sark.
284 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:21:11am |
re: #279 spidly
big family of crapsticks
Ari could be mini-prop czar with his hollywood connections
Shhh.
285 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:23:24am |
re: #283 MandyManners
Another good use of pineapple is Cutty Sark.
Didn't Ted Turner own Cutty Sark at one time?
286 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:23:39am |
re: #280 Cannadian Club Akbar
Living in Florida, we get spring training baseball. When I waited tables, agents would be with young kids, 18-21 or so, trying to be their agent. They are whores.
I don't know if I'd go that far.
287 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:24:38am |
re: #284 MandyManners
Shhh.
yes, I should stop being such a radical divisive deather. I should accept half of what they say and come to some moderately eugenic compromise with them.
288 | The Left Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:25:34am |
re: #256 MandyManners
One of those unintended consequences of mandating human behavior is that villages are loaded with men who can find no one to marry.
Quite true. There are various other problems as a result as well. I forget what the stats are about the gender breakdown, but there's a horrifying imbalance-- and it's as a result of female infanticide, sex-selective abortion, and the value placed on having a male heir.
289 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:26:32am |
re: #285 Cannadian Club Akbar
Didn't Ted Turner own Cutty Sark at one time?
I have no idea.
Remember Captain Planet and the Planeteers?
290 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:27:10am |
291 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:27:27am |
re: #286 MandyManners
I don't know if I'd go that far.
Drew Rosenhaus had Eric Rhette for the Bucs hold out for a new contract. By the time he started playing again, Rhette lost abilities. I don't think he played for to long after that. But I am sure Drew took care of him. Not.
292 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:28:05am |
re: #287 spidly
yes, I should stop being such a radical divisive deather. I should accept half of what they say and come to some moderately eugenic compromise with them.
I'll give Ari props for his dislike of Mel Gibson but, if he did make that statement about African-Americans, I lose all appreciation.
293 | gregb Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:28:47am |
re: #232 Cannadian Club Akbar
Also, during the Tsunami a few years ago, Americans gave more money for aid through the Red Cross then the gubment did. I know I made my contribution, then sent my email reciept to everyone I knew. One of my friends gave $1 more then I did, just to be an asshole. But he gave when he normally wouldn't think about it.
I think the money wasn't important, but the actual implementation of the worldwide early warning system. It's an amazing piece of technology and operational system. They finally finished the global deployment fairlly recently. When they had the big shakes on Aug 10th, I found a wealth of info on it. Outside of the RTC and DARPA, probably one of the most successful government programs ever.
[Link: www.magazine.noaa.gov...]
294 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:29:36am |
re: #288 iceweasel
Quite true. There are various other problems as a result as well. I forget what the stats are about the gender breakdown, but there's a horrifying imbalance-- and it's as a result of female infanticide, sex-selective abortion, and the value placed on having a male heir.
This is what worries me about a government that decides which people are productive, therefore worthy of life.
295 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:30:08am |
re: #293 gregb
True, but the conversation was about Eric Holder calling Americans greedy.
296 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:30:26am |
re: #293 gregb
I think the money wasn't important, but the actual implementation of the worldwide early warning system. It's an amazing piece of technology and operational system. They finally finished the global deployment fairlly recently. When they had the big shakes on Aug 10th, I found a wealth of info on it. Outside of the RTC and DARPA, probably one of the most successful government programs ever.
[Link: www.magazine.noaa.gov...]
Wasn't Pres. Bush blamed for the tsunami?
297 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:30:51am |
re: #289 MandyManners
I have no idea.
Remember Captain Planet and the Planeteers?
Oooh! You trying to rile me up! I had custody of my little ex-brothers-in-law for a couple years and they loved Captain Greenie Meenie. Had all the toys from Burger King. I actually watched it one day and the evil oil guy was purposefully dumping oil into the sea to screw up the environment.
Forbade them from watching it anymore and tried to explain why it was so effed up to them. 1st and 3rd graders though so I was just a dick.
298 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:32:36am |
re: #295 Cannadian Club Akbar
True, but the conversation was about Eric Holder calling Americans greedy.
*pssst*
You have your appointees mixed up--Eric Holder is the AG. John Holdren is the "science" guy.
299 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:33:39am |
re: #297 spidly
Oooh! You trying to rile me up! I had custody of my little ex-brothers-in-law for a couple years and they loved Captain Greenie Meenie. Had all the toys from Burger King. I actually watched it one day and the evil oil guy was purposefully dumping oil into the sea to screw up the environment.
Forbade them from watching it anymore and tried to explain why it was so effed up to them. 1st and 3rd graders though so I was just a dick.
Well, good for you for taking an unpopular stand.
300 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:34:01am |
re: #298 MandyManners
*pssst*
You have your appointees mixed up--Eric Holder is the AG. John Holdren is the "science" guy.
My bad, but I have you as my wing girl, so it's all good:)
301 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:36:54am |
re: #300 Cannadian Club Akbar
My bad, but I have you as my wing girl, so it's all good:)
It's easy to get FCBBHO's appointees mixed up. Both of the ones in question have made hateful statments about Americans/America. Holdren says we're stingy. Holder says we're cowards.
302 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:37:58am |
re: #301 MandyManners
It's easy to get FCBBHO's appointees mixed up. Both of the ones in question have made hateful statments about Americans/America. Holdren says we're stingy. Holder says we're cowards.
And Kanye West said George Bush hates black people.
303 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:40:56am |
re: #302 Cannadian Club Akbar
And Kanye West said George Bush hates black people.
Eh. He's an attention-whore and would be no matter the color of his skin.
304 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:41:40am |
re: #292 MandyManners
I'll give Ari props for his dislike of Mel Gibson but, if he did make that statement about African-Americans, I lose all appreciation.
Hell, I give Mel 1/3 of a pass for being pretty much insane even when he's not loaded. Push it up to half a pass for growing up with that dad of his. Sean Penn gets a full pass from me for all his lefty sins including his anti-semitism because he's just sooo fucking stooopid I don't think he even realizes what he's saying, plus he's somehow a damn fine actor - empty skull for writers and directors to fill?
306 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:44:47am |
Hole in sidewalk falls into black hole
Unremarkable story, but illustrative.
Your healthcare in a nutshell. When the gov't runs anything, it ends up like this.
This is a story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody. There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it. Somebody got angry about that, because it was Everybody's job. Everybody thought Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it. It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done!
307 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:44:57am |
re: #297 spidly
Oooh! You trying to rile me up! I had custody of my little ex-brothers-in-law for a couple years and they loved Captain Greenie Meenie. Had all the toys from Burger King. I actually watched it one day and the evil oil guy was purposefully dumping oil into the sea to screw up the environment.
Forbade them from watching it anymore and tried to explain why it was so effed up to them. 1st and 3rd graders though so I was just a dick.
I ridiculed him off my television. I watched an episode with the kids, and pointed out that he was a "superhero" whose job was to fight pollution - but his superpowers are weakened to the point of wet toilet paper when he's exposed to...pollutants!
Even at six and nine, this sort of logic was compelling enough to relegate the Captain and his team of environmental dorksters to oblivion with the dreaded words, "That show's stupid."
Heh. The power is mine.
308 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:47:54am |
re: #304 spidly
Hell, I give Mel 1/3 of a pass for being pretty much insane even when he's not loaded. Push it up to half a pass for growing up with that dad of his. Sean Penn gets a full pass from me for all his lefty sins including his anti-semitism because he's just sooo fucking stooopid I don't think he even realizes what he's saying, plus he's somehow a damn fine actor - empty skull for writers and directors to fill?
Penn's an anti-Semite?
309 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:49:16am |
re: #305 wahabicorridor
Penn is an anti-semite? Really?
yes and no. down in venezuela supporting Chavez while Chavez rails on about about Jooos and big Jooo conspiracy. guilt by association and failure to denounce.
310 | The Left Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:51:21am |
re: #294 MandyManners
This is what worries me about a government that decides which people are productive, therefore worthy of life.
I get what you're saying, but feel obliged to point out that US health care reform wouldn't do that.
BTW, Mandy, you might like this book, if you haven't read it?
May You Be the Mother of a Hundred Sons: A Journey Among the Women of India
The overall powerlessness of Indian women is shown through a discussion of traditions and portraits of typical individuals. "Based on Bumiller's four-year residence in India, this perceptive, alert travelogue considers the prevalent custom of arranged marriage, India's scattered, budding feminist movement, population control, female infanticide
"
The author, Elisabeth Bumiller, does do a lot of (bad) reporting for the NY Times now, but this is from years ago.-- i guess when she was still good. I hardly remember it but do remember liking it, and I know you're into women's issues, especially DV issues worldwide.
311 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:52:30am |
re: #309 spidly
yes and no. down in venezuela supporting Chavez while Chavez rails on about about Jooos and big Jooo conspiracy. guilt by association and failure to denounce.
His luv for Chavez was the first thing to pop into my mind.
312 | FrogMarch Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:52:58am |
313 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:54:00am |
re: #310 iceweasel
I get what you're saying, but feel obliged to point out that US health care reform wouldn't do that.
Have you read Emanuel's writings on that very subject?
As for the book, I've not read it.
314 | kynna Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:57:48am |
re: #312 FrogMarch
Well, that doesn't fit the narrative.
Nope, it sure doesn't. Hey look! A unicorn!
"Whew -- that was a close one" /msm
316 | Gang of One Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:00:43am |
Good morning all. Wanted to share this, as I'd seen it around over the years in one variation or another. Then, my BIL sent it last night. Any synchronicity?
It was the first day of school in the USA for a new Indian student named
Chandrasekhar Subramanian who was entering the fourth grade.
The teacher said, "Let's begin by reviewing some American History. Who said
'Give me Liberty or give me Death'?"
She saw a sea of blank faces, except for Chandrasekhar, who had his hand up.
"Patrick Henry, in 1775," he said..
"Very good! Who said 'Government of the People, by the People, for the
People, shall not perish from the Earth'?"
Again, no response except from Chandrasekhar.. "Abraham Lincoln, in 1863,"
said Chandrasekhar.
The teacher snapped at the class, "Class, you should be ashamed...
Chandrasekhar, who is new to our country, knows more about its history than
you do."
She heard a loud whisper, "Damn those Indians."
"Who said that?" she demanded.
Chandrasekhar put his hand up. "General Custer, in 1862."
At that point, a student in the back said, "I'm gonna puke."
The teacher glares around and asks, "All right! Now, who said that..???"
Again, Chandrasekhar says, "George Bush to the Japanese Prime Minister, in
1991."
Now furious, another student yells, "Oh yeah? Suck this...!!!"
Chandrasekhar jumps out of his chair waving his hand and shouts to the
teacher, "Bill Clinton, to Monica Lewinsky, in 1997..!!"
Now with almost mob hysteria someone said, "You little shit. If you say
anything else, I'll kill you."
Chandrasekhar frantically yells at the top of his voice, "Michael Jackson
to the child witnesses testifying against him, in 2004."
The teacher fainted.
And as the class gathered around the teacher on the floor, someone said,
"Oh crap, we're screwed!"
AND CHANDRASEKHAR SAID QUIETLY, I THINK IT WAS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE,...
NOVEMBER 4, 2008."
317 | kynna Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:00:55am |
re: #311 MandyManners
His luv for Chavez was the first thing to pop into my mind.
I had a conversation with my FiL (an Obamabot) yesterday about Chavez and he seems to feel that Chavez is an isolated case of a simple crazy guy. It's the oil money that caused it. This is how he twists his mind around the acceptance of socialism. Isolated cases caused by something else.
318 | The Left Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:01:33am |
re: #313 MandyManners
Have you read Emanuel's writings on that very subject?
As for the book, I've not read it.
No. I've read the various proposed bills though.
I think you might like the book. I should reread it myself; it was years ago that I did.
Indian friend of mine who came to the US for college and stayed for work recently married an Indian guy who had done the same. They seemed like the same sort of people-- from the same sort of families back in India, very similar education (both went to Ivies, both had prestigous, high paying jobs in the US)-- they had a baby (boy) and her husband suddenly turned into a different person. Horrific abuse and he tried to take the child away. All of this instigated and abetted by his own mother-- who is very traditional.
There's still court cases pending. He's tried to steal the child and take him to India to hide him forever.
Anyway, it's been a very illuminating experience in terms of how certain misogynistic cultures can retain a grip on a person's psyche-- even when he leaves the country and appears to have embraced different values. Definitely made me want to reread the book.
319 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:03:47am |
re: #317 kynna
I had a conversation with my FiL (an Obamabot) yesterday about Chavez and he seems to feel that Chavez is an isolated case of a simple crazy guy. It's the oil money that caused it. This is how he twists his mind around the acceptance of socialism. Isolated cases caused by something else.
Oil money causes insanity? Wowza. Why isn't Canada filled with despots?
320 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:04:24am |
re: #311 MandyManners
His luv for Chavez was the first thing to pop into my mind.
His defense of Chavez despite being completely aware of his Jooo hatred and doubling down when being called on it - kinda pushes it to the yes column...and he's part Jewish somewhere I think. But then he does make Barbie Boxer look smart and I'm pretty sure he should not be living unassisted.
321 | Killian Bundy Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:05:04am |
Dealers wait for 'cash for clunkers' payments
A growing number of auto dealers say the process of getting paid under the government's "cash for clunkers" plan increasingly resembles some of the wrecks accumulating on their lots as part of the program.
The slow payments coming from the federal government are reinforcing the paradoxical nature of the program for dealers: It has generated the most showroom traffic they have had in months while at the same time heaping unease, frustration and worry onto the industry's worst-ever downturn.
As of the close of business Friday, there was talk in the industry that some dealers are considering pulling out of the clunkers program altogether.
"A number of dealers have floated $100,000 to upwards of $1 million or more" on the clunkers program, said Bill Sepic, president of the Wisconsin Automobile & Truck Dealers Association.
Dealers say they want to see at least some sign that they will be able to recoup that money. Still others need the money to pay bills and meet payroll.
"This is not a Wisconsin problem," Sepic added. "This is going on across the country.
/I'm sure the government will do a much better job with health care
322 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:06:47am |
re: #318 iceweasel
The link to the Hasting Center article.
[Link: findarticles.com...]
The link to the LGF post about The Lancet article.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
323 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:07:20am |
re: #321 Killian Bundy
Dealers wait for 'cash for clunkers' payments
/I'm sure the government will do a much better job with health care
I know the gubment will do fine. My TV said so.
/
324 | The Left Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:07:54am |
re: #322 MandyManners
Yeah, I still don't care.
He's not writing the health care legislation and he's not voting on it.
325 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:08:44am |
re: #320 spidly
His defense of Chavez despite being completely aware of his Jooo hatred and doubling down when being called on it - kinda pushes it to the yes column...and he's part Jewish somewhere I think. But then he does make Barbie Boxer look smart and I'm pretty sure he should not be living unassisted.
I saw him in Mystic River on AMC a while back. Amazing performance.
326 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:09:04am |
re: #321 Killian Bundy
Dealers wait for 'cash for clunkers' payments
/I'm sure the government will do a much better job with health care
When you're sick, time is critical.
When you're the gubmint, it's hurry up and wait.
Those 2 things do not go well together.
327 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:09:15am |
re: #319 MandyManners
Oil money causes insanity? Wowza. Why isn't Canada filled with despots?
gotta love that social justice. the "peoples oil" sells for 80 bucks a barrel, 60 goes into the malignant trolls pocket, 20 to the people that they might pay for production costs. Viva la revolucion!
328 | Afrocity Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:11:09am |
Morning Lizards. I see Obama is in campaign mode again. I was wondering when he would use "toot" to his advantage. As if those opposed to nationalized health care have never lost anyone.
Did he really watch "toot" deteriorate? Wasn't he in Chicago for most of the time. When she died didn't he fail to go back to Hawaii for her memorial?
329 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:11:16am |
re: #324 iceweasel
Yeah, I still don't care.
He's not writing the health care legislation and he's not voting on it.
He has direct input into the legislation as health-policy adviser at the OMB. He also is a member of the Federal Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research. To my knowledge, comparative effectiveness is code for rationing.
330 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:12:53am |
re: #327 spidly
gotta love that social justice. the "peoples oil" sells for 80 bucks a barrel, 60 goes into the malignant trolls pocket, 20 to the people that they might pay for production costs. Viva la revolucion!
Speaking of malignant trolls, I heard on NPR yesterday that China has fired the head of its program to build reactors for taking bribes and other things. I wonder if he'll be executed.
331 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:14:12am |
re: #328 Afrocity
Morning Lizards. I see Obama is in campaign mode again. I was wondering when he would use "toot" to his advantage. As if those opposed to nationalized health care have never lost anyone.
Did he really watch "toot" deteriorate? Wasn't he in Chicago for most of the time. When she died didn't he fail to go back to Hawaii for her memorial?
If "Toot" is his granny, the memorial was delayed so that he could attend.
332 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:14:21am |
re: #330 MandyManners
Speaking of malignant trolls, I heard on NPR yesterday that China has fired the head of its program to build reactors for taking bribes and other things. I wonder if he'll be executed.
probably just wasn't kicking up.
333 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:14:30am |
re: #330 MandyManners
Speaking of malignant trolls, I heard on NPR yesterday that China has fired the head of its program to build reactors for taking bribes and other things. I wonder if he'll be executed.
Obamas reelection committee. Paid advisor.
334 | bbuddha Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:14:49am |
Good Morning all. I see it looks like the takeover of our health care is still up for discussion
321 Killian Bundy
Yeah, couldn't see that coming
/
335 | The Left Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:15:23am |
re: #329 MandyManners
He has direct input into the legislation as health-policy adviser at the OMB. He also is a member of the Federal Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research. To my knowledge, comparative effectiveness is code for rationing.
BTW, I just looked at that article.
It's a perfectly normal article on bioethics. Discussion of alternatives does not = endorsement. I'm not finding anything in it to be shocking or scary-- even if this guy were in a position to make policy, which he is not.
His conclusion is one I think republicans and conservatives would endorse as well:
Clearly, more needs to be done to elucidate what specific health care services are basic; however, the overlap between liberalism and communitarianism points to a way of introducing the good back into medical ethics and devising a principled way of distinguishing basic from discretionary health care services. Perhaps using this progress in political philosophy we can begin to address Dan's challenge, begin to discuss the goods and goals of medicine.
336 | Afrocity Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:15:58am |
re: #331 MandyManners
There was a memorial that he did not attend. It was on CNN. I think his sister was there.
337 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:17:19am |
re: #332 spidly
probably just wasn't kicking up.
I don't know. China seems to be intent on building a bunch more reactors by 2020. I hope they succeed.
338 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:18:03am |
never sold on the Penn/Madonna domestic abuse charges. Aside from them both being fairly untrustworthy freaks, I think Madonna coulda kicked his ass in a heartbeat.
339 | FrogMarch Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:19:04am |
re: #336 Afrocity
There was a memorial that he did not attend. It was on CNN. I think his sister was there.
Imagine if the media frenzy if Bush hadn't gone?
340 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:20:08am |
CzarCzarLeftyCzarLeftyLeftyCzarCzar
I do not like your Lefty Czar
I do not like my crap green car
I do not him for his Sham
I do not like him Sam I Am
341 | spidly Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:20:24am |
ugh. more defending of the indefensible. I should actually get some sleep anyway. have fun rationalizing.
342 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:21:34am |
It's a gorgeous day.
I'm going to go enjoy it.
Have fun.
343 | The Left Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:22:36am |
Oi, b-h, I owe you an answer from the other day...give me a few minutes and I will, back down there. :)
344 | FrogMarch Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:23:40am |
re: #330 MandyManners
Speaking of malignant trolls, I heard on NPR yesterday that China has fired the head of its program to build reactors for taking bribes and other things. I wonder if he'll be executed.
Hi Mandy.
Corruption and bribery are nothing new under the Chinese Government sun.
Pretty much standard operating procedure. Especially with environmental controls.
345 | FrogMarch Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:24:00am |
346 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:24:23am |
Good morning y'all - from a warm (72 degrees and humid going up to 84 degrees) and overcast Charlotte!
I'd like to apologize for some of my comments on the ABC thead last night. They should never have been written and I'm sorry if I offended anyone with them, especially my #749.
I'd also like to know if a commenter nic named DEnforcer is around this morning and his sidekick (who updinged him, nic named JohnnyCache) are around. You posted and updinged less than two hours ago and I'd like to, ah, chat with you about your timing.
I'm doing not-so-hot this morning but Mom is doing ok.
I hope everyone out here is feeling well this morning!
347 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:24:23am |
Gotta' finish getting The Kid ready for church. bbiab
348 | Sheila Broflovski Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:27:05am |
re: #244 MandyManners
But, he's a special science guy! Breeding for the cognoscenti is to be encouraged.
BTW, are the elite in China bound by the one-child law?
the elite in China don't want more than one child.
Having 9 kids of my own, who are breeding like jackrabbits, my family stands ready to take over the entire Elders of Zion.
Heh.
349 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:29:56am |
re: #328 Afrocity
Morning Lizards. I see Obama is in campaign mode again. I was wondering when he would use "toot" to his advantage. As if those opposed to nationalized health care have never lost anyone.
Did he really watch "toot" deteriorate? Wasn't he in Chicago for most of the time. When she died didn't he fail to go back to Hawaii for her memorial?
I'm also just not seeing the point. OK, he watched granny die. So what? He seems to be making an attempt to marginalize the whole, silly "death panel" thing, but how is this personal anecdote supposed to accomplish that? Granny, after all, has access to the best health care vast personal wealth can buy - just like all of the rich do. No matter what sort of plan the government comes up with, granny would still have had the very best of care because of her own financial position. Granny wasn't forced into a mediocre, bureaucratic, Stalinistic wet-dream of years-long waiting lists and Byzantine inefficiencies, and would never have to worry about such a thing because of her status. What connection, if any, is 0bama trying to draw here? We already know that his family and the rest of the wealthy will be exempted from the worst that government-run health care has to offer - that will be true no matter what happens.
The man who was born into the lap of luxury and privilege, who enjoys the benefits of a lifetime of pampering, attention and being handed whatever he wants, whenever he wants it, is going to have a hard time trying to pitch the idea that he's somehow one of the "common people" because his grandmother died.
Instead of this lame attempt at an emotional appeal, how about providing some actual details. Like, for example, exactly what deal he tried to cut with the nation's pharmaceutical companies in exchange for their support, and what they finally accepted, and got in return. I'd much rather hear about that than some solipsist, contrived gushing that has absolutely no relevance to the matter at hand, and is instead meant to deflect attention away and shut down any real discussion.
350 | bbuddha Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:32:04am |
re: #346 realwest
Good Morning. Sorry you aren't feeling tip top.
Hard to believe but it is actually hotter here than in your neck of the woods. They are forecasting an actual heatwave, for Maine. Oh No it's AGW
351 | laZardo Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:34:54am |
re: #244 MandyManners
But, he's a special science guy! Breeding for the cognoscenti is to be encouraged.
BTW, are the elite in China bound by the one-child law?
Technically, the "one-child" law actually means one live birth. Lots of families in China trying to get around it by taking fertility drugs to give them twins, triplets, quadruplets, etc. IIRC.
/and good evening!
352 | onslow Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:35:45am |
353 | onslow Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:38:32am |
I blame Zombie
354 | legalpad Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:38:54am |
re: #346 realwest
Good morning, Real. I checked out your comments on that thread. Seemed accurate to me. If you think you don't meet up to your own very high standards of decorum in every particular, believe me, you get a pass from every reasonable person. Yes, your country does owe you. I will be personally pissed if they don't pay. Any system that does not allow for your immediate and complete treatment, needs to be replaced with one that does. There are a lot of costs I would cut before that one.
355 | lawhawk Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:39:11am |
re: #349 SixDegrees
And it's not like he's the only one who watched his grandmother pass away either.
I can tell from personal experience as mine passed away last week at the age of 92. She spent the last 3 years of her life in a nursing home after falling and breaking a bone in her leg requiring major reconstructive surgery. She required constant care thereafter, but that enabled her to see her great-grandson who was born just under a year ago.
How exactly would the proposals of a voluntary panel affect her end of life care options? When does government invoked voluntary creep into mandatory? It will, of course, as doctors will pressured to do more with less, and more importantly, I wonder where the cost savings can come from.
So, if he's trying to argue from a position of moral superiority, he's got another thing coming to him as well as every family has dealt with this issue at one time or another, and not every family has the financial wherewithal to do all that is possible or to take advantage of existing government programs to cover care.
More to the point, the President can't tell you how we're going to pay for any of this. He can promise the sky, but the bills are largely silent over cost. Right now, it's just platitudes that most folks wont see tax hikes, but that's going to come, if not this year, then next year, the year after and after that as cost savings never materialize and the need to fund the program becomes just as bad as all the other existing government entitlements that are unsustainable and require significant overhauls to balance the budget.
Obama says that he's not going to sign a bill that will add to the deficit. If that were the case, no bill would pass his desk. The fact is that he can't see into the future to know what any of this will cost - and the government has this "odd" habit of overpromising savings and underdelivering on cost controls - leaving the taxpayer holding the bag.
356 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:39:22am |
re: #350 bbuddha
Good morning bbuddha! A heat wave in Maine? What, is it gonna get to 80 or something? (just kidding; I've spent some time in the summer at both Portland and at Augusta and it can get damned hot up there!).
So, how hot is it going to get to?
357 | midwestgak Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:39:59am |
re: #346 realwest
{real} Glad you're here. Pace yourself, okay?
btw, the place that installed my tires don't calibrate breaks. They only deal with tires. But again, thanks for the suggestion.
359 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:41:22am |
re: #353 onslow Hell zombie shoulda at least gotten a hat tip or the newspaper equivalent thereof!
361 | midwestgak Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:42:09am |
re: #358 irish rose
Morning Irish. What's on your mind today?
362 | irish rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:43:09am |
363 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:43:21am |
re: #357 midwestgak
Hi {gak} well pacing myself is not something I'm particularly good at, I'm afraid.
And if the place that installed your tires doesn't "do" brakes, all the more reason to take it to someone who does and also have 'em check the tire balance as well!
364 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:44:08am |
re: #358 irish rose
Good morning Irish Rose - hope today finds you doing well - or as well as can be expected.
365 | irish rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:45:22am |
re: #364 realwest
Good morning Irish Rose - hope today finds you doing well - or as well as can be expected.
Thanks.
366 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:46:15am |
health care crisis?...Cloward/Piven strategy
[Link: www.americanthinker.com...]
367 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:49:03am |
Oh YOU WHO! DEnforcer and JohnnyCache - as I mentioned at #346 above, please come out and play!
368 | FrogMarch Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:51:03am |
Obama's bussed-in supporters. What's that called again? Astroturfing? Funny - the MSM doesn't mention it.
369 | bbuddha Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:52:03am |
re: #356 realwest
Yesterday it was over 90. I know, I know. That's nothing :-) The heat actually drove me in before the bugs yesterday. I spent an hour in the garden and came in actually dripping sweat (me , a woman, went way beyond glowing)
370 | laZardo Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:52:07am |
re: #368 FrogMarch
"That's because the only bussed in supporters were brought there and paid off by the insurance companies!"
/holy shit, i got a whole diagonal on that bingo card
371 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:53:09am |
re: #349 SixDegrees
Well done!
Morning lizards.
Not to change the subject, but I was reading the stalker blog (2.0) last night and apparently, I got quite a few honorable mentions. Me and the other more liberal posters here. Ice, Cato, Avanti, some others and how we're all sycophants.
So let me ask you, how is it that LGF has 1000s of posters, a handful of which are liberals and we're named as sycophants (never mind that we are most often on the opposite end of any spectrum) while the deuce has maybe 10 people that are keeping that blog alive and they all agree with each other namely how we suck? And WE'RE sycophants! LOL Losers!
Oh, btw, they have a good panel on Meet the Press this morning (God bless Tivo). Dick Armey and Rachel Maddow (!!) Now that's a cage match!
372 | bbuddha Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:54:52am |
BBL, I have some sous chef duties to perform. late breakfast this morning.
373 | Pianobuff Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:57:49am |
Vaccine news is often linked to conspiracy theories. This one sounds like it might be different, though, and worth a read.
Swine flu jab link to killer nerve disease: Leaked letter reveals concern of neurologists over 25 deaths in America
Any doctors out there that may know whether there's any merit to this?
A warning that the new swine flu jab is linked to a deadly nerve disease has been sent by the Government to senior neurologists in a confidential letter.
The letter from the Health Protection Agency, the official body that oversees public health, has been leaked to The Mail on Sunday, leading to demands to know why the information has not been given to the public before the vaccination of millions of people, including children, begins.
It tells the neurologists that they must be alert for an increase in a brain disorder called Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS), which could be triggered by the vaccine.
GBS attacks the lining of the nerves, causing paralysis and inability to breathe, and can be fatal.
The letter, sent to about 600 neurologists on July 29, is the first sign that there is concern at the highest levels that the vaccine itself could cause serious complications.
It refers to the use of a similar swine flu vaccine in the United States in 1976 when:
* More people died from the vaccination than from swine flu.
* 500 cases of GBS were detected.
* The vaccine may have increased the risk of contracting GBS by eight times.
* The vaccine was withdrawn after just ten weeks when the link with GBS became clear.
* The US Government was forced to pay out millions of dollars to those affected.Concerns have already been raised that the new vaccine has not been sufficiently tested and that the effects, especially on children, are unknown.
It is being developed by pharmaceutical companies and will be given to about 13million people during the first wave of immunisation, expected to start in October.
Top priority will be given to everyone aged six months to 65 with an underlying health problem, pregnant women and health professionals.
Read more: [Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
374 | gregb Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:57:50am |
re: #334 bbuddha
Good Morning all. I see it looks like the takeover of our health care is still up for discussion
/
The current plan is to market healthcare as a civil right starting in September. They've already tested it in multiple markets and see it as a way to counter the "town hall" anger.
Sigh.
376 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:00:56am |
re: #374 gregb
The current plan is to market healthcare as a civil right starting in September. They've already tested it in multiple markets and see it as a way to counter the "town hall" anger.
Sigh.
toss in 20 million illegal immigrants and it becomes a 'human rights' issue...and they are knocking on the door
377 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:02:10am |
re: #374 gregb
The current plan is to market healthcare as a civil right starting in September. They've already tested it in multiple markets and see it as a way to counter the "town hall" anger.
Sigh.
Link?
378 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:03:25am |
here they come...Soto will help sort this out down the road
[Link: online.wsj.com...]
379 | wahabicorridor Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:03:59am |
And here's the weekly prayer list
Lizard Prayer List 8/16/09
Prayers for thanks, praise, comfort, strength, healing, and hope
Please send updates to prayerlist96@yahoo.com
Seeking Updates
Many thanks to Ben Z and Cap'n Doc for starting this.
Part 1 of 3:
Community issues:
Blessing and protection over all of us during these times.
Our government
Our troops
Israel
Georgia/Ossetia
Gilad Schalit, for his release.
The contractors still held hostage
Brian at Snapped Shot: for justice
The Iranian “dissidents”
Thanksgivings
mikeymom: sister recovering from a stroke; D-i-L’s stepdad – throat cancer; and
son of a good friend-50 yrs old- having 1/3 of face removed and reconstructed next week-cancer.
Uncle Rancher: 17-year-old nephew had treatment for melanoma
Afrocity Brown: outpatient surgery went very well
bbuddha: mother-in-law doing much better
HoosierHoops: son Jordan deployed to Japan instead of Afghanistan & grandchild on the way
Vxbush: health issues diagnosed
Wolfie: nephew (USAR-spec ops) got home from Iraq a couple of months ago safe and sound, and he and his wife are expecting their second child.
eschew_obfuscation: family’s health and happiness
Empire1: out of the hospital after suffering a stroke, practically fully recovered
Loppyd: future plans
Irish Rose – Son doing ok and out of danger from illness; automobile problems resolved.
MNSnowlizard - No need for further heart surgery, prayers for her and her family’s good health
Fluffy Bunny – tumor turned out to be benign!
RememberSekhmet – got a job!
Floral Giraffe - Mother just had successful pacemaker inplanted.
Fat Bastard Vegetarian – Mother’s cancer much improved
381 | wahabicorridor Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:04:30am |
Part 2 of 3 08/16/09
Health issues:
Mikeymom: husband’s cousin's hubby just diagnosed w/lung and brain cancer
loppyd: Brother’s knee injury and future m-i-l’s broken hip.
vagabond trader: friend’s mother fighting cancer
(cont'd)
littleoldlady: talloldman
Pietr: Aunt Doris in hospital with poor prognosis; b-i-l Roscoe undergoing Chemotherapy
J.D.: diagnosed friend's son as having a Glioma
Doppelganglander: Passing of sister, best friend Cindy diagnosed with MS
NY Nana: son-in-law’s mum, recovering from amputation
CapeCoddah: boss John R
Iron Fist: diabetes not improving
yma o hyd: glaucoma; may need surgery; arthritis
ArmyWife: FIL just diagnosed with leukemia; good friend’s daughter dealing with issues.
UberInfidel67 and other Lizards who are trying to quit smoking
Chicago Blonde: friend battling cancer
Macker: health issues and treatment
Hoppes: has sick children, lost her MIL, and is very stressed
UberInfidel67: brother’s health after polyps removal
Aussiemagpie: children with health issues
Walter Cronanty: son with recurrence of leukemia & recovering from bone marrow transplant.
logboy: recovery from injuries received in combat in Iraq
gettinby: sister diagnosed with Sjogren’s Syndrome
Pingjockey – cancer down by voice box.
tfc3rid: gf's 89 year old grandmother (suffered a large stroke and is in rehab) and her uncle who is suffering from throat cancer; and continued prayers for dad who has MS
twincitiesgirl: husband fighting cancer
Cato the elder: health issues
Josephine: daughter diagnosed with rare, chronic illness
jamsler: sister, just diagnosed with thyroid cancer; father, getting biopsy of a possible malignancy in his throat.
CoCo: mother paralyzed (due to strokes) and is now having new health problems
gop_patriot: friend’s 8-year-old son starting chemo
Pingjockey: friend Bob with a carcinoma, recovering from surgery
jorline: scleritis (eye disease), rheumatoid arthritis; father who has colon cancer
realwest: metastasizing prostate cancer; mom Type II diabetes
AKAK: Parkinson’s diagnosis confirmed
eaglewingz08: intestinal cancer; has bad case of Grave’s disease, thyroid disorder
Noamsayin: niece and dad battling cancer
Truck Monkey: Brady (11-year-old with brain cancer who is on the football team he coaches)
Shaky Louie: chronic pancriatitis, and an (as yet) undiagnosed liver problem.
newsjunkie_ky: Step-Dad
Sarah: dad (cancer);
Zonie: cancer and renal failure
kcladderman: father’s throat cancer; just finisher second round of radiation
Clutch: 82-year-old mom’s recovery from eye surgery
BBev: wife’s illness and great pain, having gone from bad to worse
Kenneth: beloved daughter "M" serious chronic illness.
Cartman: liver and other health problems
Irene NYC: mom’s cancer
Outsidephilly – recovering from BAD flu and pneumonia
Jamgarr – for good outcome of cancer surgery
382 | Coracle Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:04:33am |
re: #378 albusteve
here they come...Soto will help sort this out down the road
[Link: online.wsj.com...]
That is a racist insinuation.
383 | gregb Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:04:41am |
re: #377 MandyManners
Link?
Laughing. Like Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory, it's a combination of conversations, news, and bboards where I get my info, but there has been some discussion of it in the MSM.
[Link: www.newsweek.com...]
384 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:04:55am |
re: #355 lawhawk
Good morning lawhawk - condolences again on the loss of your grandmother.
And of course you're right. Killian Bundy linked to a site which stated that Medicare now covers 44 Million Americans and is in the hole for something like $76 Trillion Dollars - also on that ABC Thread. Not to mention the enormous hole Social Security is in. There is no ZERO SUM solution to many if any problems in America, and certainly NOT in the health care field.
I would like politicians to stop their continual running for re-election or election to a higher office, long enough to have a truly transparent discussion on health care and health care insurance reform BEFORE we institute any sort of "reform". For example, what are the known dimensions of the problem? President Obama says there are 46 million uninsured Americans. Where did he get that number?
I've seen honest and usually reliable sources say that the number of Americans who cannot afford private health care insurance is something like 12 Million. There's a LOT more than 34 million Americans at stake here - if the real number is closer to 12 million, we need to find out who they are and how it is that they are without insurance and then work on fixing that, not necessarily "reforming" our entire health care system.
I think that a lot of the opposition to Health Care Insurance Reform comes from Americans who are puzzled by the numbers being thrown around, the number of pages Congress (at least the House of Representatives) have taken with at least ONE proposal for "reform", why other folks (Federal government employees - especially congresscritters and their staffs, certain union members and others aren't ALL being included in "reform") etc etc etc.
Health Care is far too important to each of us (whether or not we know it yet) and to the Nation for it to be scrambled up in the current 1,000 bill or proposal without some basic discussions - PUBLIC discusssions of the dimensions of the problems with Health Care.
385 | wahabicorridor Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:04:59am |
Lizard Prayer List, cont’d: 08/16/09
Family, friend, and life situations:
Kawfytawk: the Springle family, who lost their father in Iraq.
Dustyvet: sudden loss of sister
loppyd: friend’s personal problems
Kawfytawk: caring for father
Teacake: emotional healing
BaseballMom57: husband’s passing; prayers for especially for their children.
ChildofMary: passing of husband, ElderZionist
US Beast: passing of mother
Vxbush: Lesion on Liver near vein, MRI scheduled; and one Lizard friend dealing with big issues
Army Green since '92: post has lost three soldiers in Afghanistan;
yma o hyd: death of dear friend Annie; ease the grief of friend who lost her husband of 59 years
Taqiyyotomist: strength in difficult times
FBV: that the unknowns find fulfillment
Vxbush: daughter’s financial issues
Yochanan: son in IDF
Bcgirl: sponsored child, Alia in Egypt
Wyatt Earp: Uncle Joe; prostate cancer returned
West Texas: brother’s decision
Victor_yugo: job
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey: mom home from the hospital but may be regressing
A Kiwi Infidel: Natasha and her husband mourning the loss of the younger child.
MandyManners: Mother seriously ill and in hospital.
Cast Iron Magnolia: nephew, David, who's a Marine serving in Iraq
HHC 2-2 SCR: for those we lost and their family and friends and for thanks for those that are finally back and one for the safety of those still waiting to return.
lightsout: to make a wise decision
BeerDrinking VictoryMonkey: strength to overcome a personal issue, and for wisdom in discerning another one
Flynmudd: son deployed to Middle East
x-wing: son diagnosed with Asperger’s (mild autism)
Mars Needs Neocons: job
jcm: new 7th month foster daughter (previous foster daughter went to live with her grandma)
Josephine: painful loss
Jammiewearingfool: sister’s passing
David Simon: mom (Alzheimer's)
Intrepid: Mom has Alzheimer's and Intrepid is caretaker
conservgirl: atheist SPM, that he finds the Lord
Coz: Brother in law and wife in horrible motorcycle accident; wife passed away.
Pvt Bin Jammin – BIL’s son has Liver Cancer
soxfan4life – Uncle had heart attack, undergoing by-pass surgery
3 wood – Dana, friend of 3 wood and family, passed of cancer and is now in the arms of the Lord. Please pray for her 2 small children and husband.
ChristheProfessor – lost his brother to cancer recently.
Floral Giraffe – Uncle passed away this past week
Mamacares – health issues for a family member
Conservatisimnow – kidney stones and other related matters.
Bbhudda – Mother-in Law passed away recently.
Hutchip – son in US Army, just shipped out to the Middle East where he’ll be in Harm’s way
Knitwit – calm for a friend who is experiencing some turbulence.
Lizards with family issues
Irish Rose: One of Top 5 candidates for a GREAT job!
Noraono: colleagues laid off in building industry
antiislamist: in need of prayers
lone_wolf_in_illinois: friends and family in Israel
Dianna: - mother- best possible outcome is hoped for.
GotC: strength for kids and her dealing with EH.
Danger close: general
zulubaby, Carl in Jerusalem, Mr Pol, Golden Jerusalem, basically all the minion in eretz Yisrael
Noam Saying: comfort for a lost brother
Buckeye Abroad: in the belly of the beast of Eurabia
nonic: general
yank in EU: general
MdiM: general
.
In Memoriam
Dublin(CA)Dude
USMC 1968
ElderZion
Obi Wan
All our Troops who have died protecting our Freedom and their families.
386 | laZardo Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:05:05am |
re: #374 gregb
The current plan is to market healthcare as a civil right starting in September. They've already tested it in multiple markets and see it as a way to counter the "town hall" anger.
Sigh.
Civil right? There's a nutjob twoofer on my art forum's political board proudly proclaiming it as a human right!
387 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:05:53am |
re: #380 laZardo
Did I get a mention yet?
/a dubious honor, but I feel kinda...left out.
I don't believe so. You must try harder!
388 | Irish Rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:07:28am |
re: #371 American Sabra
If I were you, I wouldn't mention here that you read the stalker blog.
I've sadly learned that people here don't give a damn about what they say about you, or Charles, or anyone else who is being savaged over there. You'll probably be told that you actually deserve to be a victim of their vile comments, because you have the audacity to mention them here.
389 | gregb Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:09:57am |
re: #386 laZardo
Civil right? There's a nutjob twoofer on my art forum's political board proudly proclaiming it as a human right!
Well, Battle Royale is set for September. Reagan's "No Socialized Medicine" versus Obama's "Healthcare Civil Right" (or Human Right as you pointed out, civil right didn't mesh well with public understanding).
I watched 'The International' the other day. A quote is relevant here:
What do you do when there's no way out?
Find a way deeper in.
390 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:10:37am |
Senator Kent Conrad now on FNC saying that they do not have the votes in the Senate to pass the Public Option in the Health Reform Proposal.
Obama apparently has lost the debate. He will undoubtedly get something & call it a victory , but he is blowing this.
391 | laZardo Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:10:56am |
re: #384 realwest
Maybe that 46 million number includes those who are later on unpleasantly surprised to find out that their health care coverage isn't adequate enough due to risk etc.?
392 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:11:00am |
re: #388 Irish Rose
Well I read em from time to time. They are so stupidly outrageous, it's a guilty pleasure. The difference is I don't respond to them. (You really shouldn't either IMO.)
393 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:11:10am |
394 | Irish Rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:11:14am |
re: #379 wahabicorridor
Please add me to the prayer list this morning, for emotional healing.
I had a very old and very deep wound opened up yesterday by some very cruel people, and the hurt that I'm feeling today can't be put into words.
395 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:12:03am |
how Agent Presley joined the the BNDD...unusual tale about the King
[Link: www.powerlineblog.com...]
396 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:12:33am |
re: #378 albusteve
Hey Steve killer line here (from your link):""My position is that to have a healthy community we can't have a subset of people who don't have access to health care," says Mr. Duterte. "It's bad public-health policy." Health experts say that giving undocumented immigrants medical care can prevent the spread of illnesses."
But who pays for that healthcare? And does that not deplete the pool of financing for American citizens who require healthcare?
397 | wahabicorridor Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:12:45am |
re: #394 Irish Rose
Please add me to the prayer list this morning, for emotional healing.
I had a very old and very deep wound opened up yesterday by some very cruel people, and the hurt that I'm feeling today can't be put into words.
done
398 | laZardo Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:12:48am |
re: #393 MandyManners
This article on Sotomayor being sworn in on TV a few weeks back showed several women, presumably Hispanic, wearing "Wise Latina" T-shirts. Weird how things turn out.
399 | gregb Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:13:14am |
re: #394 Irish Rose
Please add me to the prayer list this morning, for emotional healing.
I had a very old and very deep wound opened up yesterday by some very cruel people, and the hurt that I'm feeling today can't be put into words.
Wear it like a red badge of courage. That which doesn't kill us?
400 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:13:47am |
re: #355 lawhawk
And it's not like he's the only one who watched his grandmother pass away either.
I can tell from personal experience as mine passed away last week at the age of 92. She spent the last 3 years of her life in a nursing home after falling and breaking a bone in her leg requiring major reconstructive surgery. She required constant care thereafter, but that enabled her to see her great-grandson who was born just under a year ago.
How exactly would the proposals of a voluntary panel affect her end of life care options? When does government invoked voluntary creep into mandatory? It will, of course, as doctors will pressured to do more with less, and more importantly, I wonder where the cost savings can come from.
So, if he's trying to argue from a position of moral superiority, he's got another thing coming to him as well as every family has dealt with this issue at one time or another, and not every family has the financial wherewithal to do all that is possible or to take advantage of existing government programs to cover care.
More to the point, the President can't tell you how we're going to pay for any of this. He can promise the sky, but the bills are largely silent over cost. Right now, it's just platitudes that most folks wont see tax hikes, but that's going to come, if not this year, then next year, the year after and after that as cost savings never materialize and the need to fund the program becomes just as bad as all the other existing government entitlements that are unsustainable and require significant overhauls to balance the budget.
Obama says that he's not going to sign a bill that will add to the deficit. If that were the case, no bill would pass his desk. The fact is that he can't see into the future to know what any of this will cost - and the government has this "odd" habit of overpromising savings and underdelivering on cost controls - leaving the taxpayer holding the bag.
All correct. And even worse, the CBO continues to provide analyses that say spending will skyrocket along with deficits as the true costs of such a program completely overwhelm the platitudes.
401 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:14:43am |
re: #383 gregb
Laughing. Like Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory, it's a combination of conversations, news, and bboards where I get my info, but there has been some discussion of it in the MSM.
[Link: www.newsweek.com...]
Alter is lefty tool.
I wonder if someone in the FCBBHO Administration fed him some ideas.
402 | Irish Rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:14:52am |
re: #376 albusteve
toss in 20 million illegal immigrants and it becomes a 'human rights' issue...and they are knocking on the door
On this, I agree with you.
The healthcare industry in this country needs some serious reform, but no way in hell should we be forced to pay for the comprehensive healthcare of people who are in this country illegally... that is where I draw the line.
403 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:15:04am |
re: #385 wahabicorridor
Good morning whabi! I'm sorry I posted in the middle of your post of The List. I just didn't realize you had started when I was writing, then posting my comment.
Excellent job, btw and thank you for maintaining The List.
404 | midwestgak Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:15:19am |
re: #394 Irish Rose
{Irish} Such wounds are so painful. Know that you have many lizards who care about you.
405 | laZardo Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:15:28am |
re: #399 gregb
Wear it like a red badge of courage. That which doesn't kill us?
...slowly eats away at us and drives us insane?
/how I, not being strong enough and neither parentally nor school-legally encouraged to 'fight back' against bullies, dealt with that sort of thing.
406 | gregb Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:15:44am |
re: #401 MandyManners
Alter is lefty tool.
I wonder if someone in the FCBBHO Administration fed him some ideas.
Always on the lookout for good "terminology" trial balloons. It's seems so transparent to me...
407 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:16:04am |
re: #394 Irish Rose
Please add me to the prayer list this morning, for emotional healing.
I had a very old and very deep wound opened up yesterday by some very cruel people, and the hurt that I'm feeling today can't be put into words.
(((IrishRose)))
408 | Irish Rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:16:48am |
re: #392 American Sabra
Well I read em from time to time. They are so stupidly outrageous, it's a guilty pleasure. The difference is I don't respond to them. (You really shouldn't either IMO.)
Sure, I'll just ignore the people who are stalking my family offline.
No problemo.
409 | Coracle Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:16:52am |
re: #393 MandyManners
That does not make the referenced insinuation any less racist.
410 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:17:24am |
re: #398 laZardo
This article on Sotomayor being sworn in on TV a few weeks back showed several women, presumably Hispanic, wearing "Wise Latina" T-shirts. Weird how things turn out.
It's amazing how non-minorities are excoriated for talking about race yet some members of minorities do not.
412 | _RememberTonyC Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:18:01am |
Good morning Lizards. Hope everyone is having a nice weekend.
413 | The Left Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:18:15am |
re: #388 Irish Rose
If I were you, I wouldn't mention here that you read the stalker blog.
I've sadly learned that people here don't give a damn about what they say about you, or Charles, or anyone else who is being savaged over there. You'll probably be told that you actually deserve to be a victim of their vile comments, because you have the audacity to mention them here.
I don't believe that rose. People care deeply about you and just hate to see you hurt, that's all.
{Rose}
PS all the people over there are fuckwits and any normal human being can tell that within approximately 5 seconds of reading them.
414 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:18:17am |
re: #406 gregb
Always on the lookout for good "terminology" trial balloons. It's seems so transparent to me...
The chattering class in the D.C. salons.
415 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:18:34am |
417 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:20:24am |
re: #412 _RememberTonyC
Good morning Lizards. Hope everyone is having a nice weekend.
Fair-to-middling. How's your weekend?
418 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:20:33am |
re: #396 realwest
Hey Steve killer line here (from your link):""My position is that to have a healthy community we can't have a subset of people who don't have access to health care," says Mr. Duterte. "It's bad public-health policy." Health experts say that giving undocumented immigrants medical care can prevent the spread of illnesses."
But who pays for that healthcare? And does that not deplete the pool of financing for American citizens who require healthcare?
this is going to be a huge issue sooner or later, and whatever the equation to pay for them is going to be another slam on an already over taxed taxpayer
419 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:21:43am |
re: #402 Irish Rose
On this, I agree with you.
The healthcare industry in this country needs some serious reform, but no way in hell should we be forced to pay for the comprehensive healthcare of people who are in this country illegally... that is where I draw the line.
THere is a way to address the uninsured without a radical trashing of the system & it has always been available.
Carve out illegals, they have no claim on our healthcare system other than to be stabalized & then sent home for care.
Young people that are free to participate in their company health plan , but choose not to, should be free to pay out of pocket for services & join their employer plan at another open enrollment.
That leaves the working poor with no benefits. For them provide a stop loss provision so that their out of pocket expenses will be no more than the average insured. The government can self fund the stop loss or purchase it from a reinsurer.
THe problem is that it would not enhance Obamas power.
420 | FrogMarch Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:22:27am |
I sat at a table last week with representatives of Public Enemy No. 1 — the health-care insurance industry — and a more disreputable pack of scoundrels I have rarely observed. Fortunately, I had been warned about their crafty ways by President Obama, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Nobel laureate Paul Krugman, so I was fully prepared when they made an effort to humanize themselves.Naturally, I refused to be fooled by their synthetic outrage over being demonized in the health-care debate. Didn't Pelosi explain to us that insurance companies "are the villains in this"? What possible reason would such an esteemed leader have to incite the public with unfair accusations?
I asked the four top executives at our editorial board meeting — from UnitedHealthcare, Cigna, Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield, and Rocky Mountain Health Plans — about the president's claim that we need a government insurance plan (the "public option") to "keep the insurance companies honest."
"Do we need a 'public option' in grocery stores to keep them honest?" retorted Cigna president Daryl Edmonds — perhaps unaware that his tart response could give this administration and Congress ideas. Undeterred, I pressed on: Aren't your administrative costs out of line compared to Medicare's because of outrageous salaries and other cockamamie expenses? That's what I keep hearing from advocates of a public option, and they never play loose with the facts.
The executives argued that it's almost impossible to track Medicare's true administrative costs because of the way they're spread across the government — and that in any event, 87 cents of every private health-insurance dollar go to pay physicians, hospitals and pharmaceutical companies. But I smelled a rat. After all, the remaining 13 cents include profits, and everyone knows that insurance industry profits are obscene.
Never mind that Anthem president John Martie handed me a graphic with PriceWaterhouseCoopers data showing that health plans' net profit margin is lower than in many other sectors. He would make a big deal about that, wouldn't he? I'm sure a 3 percent profit must be immoral for some reason. Where's Madam Speaker when you need her to explain why?
...RTWT
421 | Irish Rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:23:08am |
422 | _RememberTonyC Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:23:56am |
re: #417 MandyManners
Fair-to-middling. How's your weekend?
Hi Mandy and LaZardo ... weekend is OK ... worked last night but off today and tomorrow. I hope you guys are well. I just started up a humble little web page (blue nic) if anyone wants to check it out. It will never be LGF, but since I have no desire to be on Facebook, I guess it's a little chunk of the [Link: www...] me to play on!
423 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:24:10am |
re: #409 Coracle
That does not make the referenced insinuation any less racist.
I don't consider Latino's a race
424 | The Left Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:24:44am |
re: #421 Irish Rose
Apparently you weren't reading last night.
I probably did miss a lot, I often do.
I still believe people here support you because you have a good heart.
425 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:26:11am |
re: #402 Irish Rose
On this, I agree with you.
The healthcare industry in this country needs some serious reform, but no way in hell should we be forced to pay for the comprehensive healthcare of people who are in this country illegally... that is where I draw the line.
Certainly a worthy complaint. But let's be careful not to win all the battles while losing the war. The strategy here already seems to be to load the bill up with all sorts of questionable bullshit that's sure to draw fire, then slough off one item at a time and let the opposition declare victory while still keeping the bill itself intact. It's easier to go back and add in the items you lost at a later date, once the full framework is already in place, and "losing" on a few items creates the illusion of victory on the other side.
The entire bill is a disaster from front to back, cobbled together from a wish list of overarching government control fantasies almost overnight, with no meaningful analysis and no attempt at bipartisanship. Free market solutions, for example, appear nowhere, despite their proven ability to provide quality health care to over 85% of the population - if you believe the inflated numbers kicked around about the number of "uninsured" citizens.
The "problems" being "solved" are being blown up out of all proportion to their true size and seriousness. This bill needs to simply be killed, end of story. The actual problems are certainly worth addressing, but they are small and manageable and don't require handing over control of a sixth of the nation's economy to a bunch of career politicians with no expertise in anything but publicly lying.
426 | _RememberTonyC Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:26:18am |
gonna grab a quick walk before the wife heads home ... will check in later. have a good one!
427 | Irish Rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:26:26am |
re: #422 _RememberTonyC
Hi Mandy and LaZardo ... weekend is OK ... worked last night but off today and tomorrow. I hope you guys are well. I just started up a humble little web page (blue nic) if anyone wants to check it out. It will never be LGF, but since I have no desire to be on Facebook, I guess it's a little chunk of the [Link: www...] me to play on!
Nice Tony, can I add you to my blogroll?
428 | Mich-again Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:27:39am |
re: #420 FrogMarch
You find out at the end that the writer was being sarcastic. Ha.
429 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:28:25am |
re: #422 _RememberTonyC
Hi Mandy and LaZardo ... weekend is OK ... worked last night but off today and tomorrow. I hope you guys are well. I just started up a humble little web page (blue nic) if anyone wants to check it out. It will never be LGF, but since I have no desire to be on Facebook, I guess it's a little chunk of the [Link: www...] me to play on!
I love your vine!
430 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:28:40am |
re: #423 albusteve
I don't consider Latino's a race
Aren't most Latinos anthropologically considered Caucasian?
432 | SilverSeaOtter Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:29:13am |
Since it appears that there are many of us who are not enthralled with the idea and/or the reality of Obamacare (as yet an undefined concept) I was wondering a) what is wrong with the medical care in the US right now, and b) what do you think needs to be done to make the current system better? Serious question. I am talking the 50,000 foot approach here. Not the 500 foot, look at every detail approach. We can get into that later. What are the broad outlook problems, and what suggestions so you have to "fix" those problems? And try to come up with answers that will help the country, not the Dems, not the Repubs, not whomever, but something that will help us all. Let's define the problem. Let's get some suggestions. Anyone?
433 | swamprat Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:30:08am |
re: #349 SixDegrees
The man who was born into the lap of luxury and privilege, who enjoys the benefits of a lifetime of pampering, attention and being handed whatever he wants, whenever he wants it, is going to have a hard time trying to pitch the idea that he's somehow one of the "common people" because his grandmother died.
If you are saying that Obama was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, you are mistaken. He was smart, lucky, and worked the system.
He wants to help America. It's not his fault that the help will saddle us with one of the largest social programs we have ever seen.
434 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:30:40am |
re: #402 Irish Rose
Hey Rose, sorry for the incident(s) that caused old wounds to be re-opened. But as I said in my #384 above, I'm not sure (and I seriously regret to say I'm not sure if anyone else is either) just what the dimensions of our "health care" or "health care insurance" problems are. But clearly adding illegal immigrants undocumented workers to the mix isn't going to help the situation at all.
And as a lawyer with more than a nodding acquaintance of our Constitution, it troubles me that some folks are finding a "constitutional right" to health care.
If we indeed want the Constitution to give all American Citizens a Right to Health care, I'd sure as hell like to see us amend the Constitution to accomplish that goal. Yes, let's have the public vote on it, since the damned politicians won't have an honest, open discussion about whatever our health care/health insurance problems are before we go through our health care system with a saber when if the facts were out there, we might be BETTER able to deal with the problem(s) with a scalpel.
435 | FrogMarch Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:32:15am |
re: #428 Mich-again
You find out at the end that the writer was being sarcastic. Ha.
It was obvious sarcasm from the beginning. Highlighting the absurdity of this debate.
436 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:33:20am |
re: #432 SilverSeaOtter
1. Too many millions of people can't afford insurance.
2. Too many people going broke paying their healthcare.
3. Insurance companies interfering with your doctor's advice. I have been twice denied an MRI for a condition in which I need one.
I have the best health insurance that (my) money can by and my co-pay just went up to $45 a visit.
437 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:33:39am |
re: #432 SilverSeaOtter
1st we have to find out how many 'Americans" REALLY have no helath ins. The scare tactic number is now up to 50 MILLION
A) how many of those are illegal aleins
B) how many of those qualify for state programs but haven't applied
C) how many of those have their own Health Savings plan used for catastrpophic emergencies only, thus saving money on monthly premiums
D) how many of them are lets say between the ages of 18 and 35 and opt NOT to have $$$ taken out of their paychecks, instead using that money for a better car, a nicer condo, eating out more often, etc?
Deduct the total of letters A,B, C, and D, give us a REAL number to work with ,,,THEN come up with a solution
438 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:34:04am |
re: #430 opnion
Aren't most Latinos anthropologically considered Caucasian?
beats me...they are people of Mexican ethnicity where I come from, at least that's what the US Census Bureau calls them, I believe
439 | gregb Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:34:15am |
Now that it's light. It's not an oppossum, it's a 30 lb racoon. I'm sure my dogs will be brought up on PETA charges.
440 | Mich-again Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:36:29am |
re: #435 FrogMarch
It was obvious sarcasm from the beginning. Highlighting the absurdity of this debate.
Not so obvious. It sounded like Obamabot talking points.
442 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:38:27am |
re: #439 gregb
Now that it's light. It's not an oppossum, it's a 30 lb racoon. I'm sure my dogs will be brought up on PETA charges.
443 | Mich-again Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:38:40am |
re: #439 gregb
Now that it's light. It's not an oppossum, it's a 30 lb racoon. I'm sure my dogs will be brought up on PETA charges.
Thems some badass dogs. Racoons are nasty in a fight and most dogs would be smart to not pick a fight.
444 | Gella Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:38:49am |
good morning lizards :)
so , tomorrow City of Chicago will be closed, great, ILL even lost A ratings
445 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:39:41am |
FNC panel now saying that the Blue Dogs will not vote for the House Bill.
They are persuaded by the level of anger at the Town Halls.
It may be that demonizing the protesters has backfired . The name calling by Democrats has not worked. Every large group has kookery, A few people with Swastika signs etc. can't tar the whole group.
Hell some of the name calling by Dems could lead you to conclude that their kook fringe is in office.
447 | Gang of One Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:40:27am |
re: #409 Coracle
That does not make the referenced insinuation any less racist.
What's racist about it? Seriously.
448 | midwestgak Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:40:28am |
449 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:40:42am |
re: #444 Gella
good morning lizards :)
so , tomorrow City of Chicago will be closed, great, ILL even lost A ratings
CA, Ill, MA, MI
lead the way for innovative state govt models
450 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:40:57am |
re: #438 albusteve
beats me...they are people of Mexican ethnicity where I come from, at least that's what the US Census Bureau calls them, I believe
The reason I ask is because of the Spanish ancestory. I would agree that Latino is not a race.
451 | Gella Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:41:17am |
452 | Gang of One Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:41:53am |
re: #410 MandyManners
It's amazing how non-minorities are excoriated for talking about race yet some members of minorities do not.
Because, Mandy, only Caucasians are racists.
//sigh ...
453 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:41:56am |
Those illegals are often hired under the table at ridiculously low wages and no benefits, taking jobs away from the rest of us and who's fault is that? Theirs or those who hire them? It's their fault for wanting a better life in this country and they'll do anything to get it? I'm for making them legal btw. So all the "healthcare" they get is when they go to the emergency room at a city hospital which, yes, does add to the problem. Put them on a path to citizenship and fine the companies who keep hiring them. That will go far to solve that healthcare problem, too.
454 | Pianobuff Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:42:28am |
re: #450 opnion
The reason I ask is because of the Spanish ancestory. I would agree that Latino is not a race.
I always thought that Latino was considered the mix between European (Spaniards largely) and the indigenous Indians.
456 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:43:23am |
re: #424 iceweasel
FWIW, I think (hope) that Irish Rose was talking about people on the stalker blog, LGF 2.0 not what people out here were saying about her.
I'm not sure of this because I wasn't out here until after midnight, Eastern time.
457 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:43:30am |
re: #451 Gella
[Link: cbs2chicago.com...]
In addition to reduced service days, all non-union employees were asked to take a series of furlough days and unpaid holidays, and most non-sworn union employees agreed to similar unpaid time off.
But of course.
458 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:44:25am |
re: #456 realwest
Long time no see, real.
How are you feeling today ?
459 | midwestgak Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:44:39am |
re: #451 Gella
[Link: cbs2chicago.com...]
Threaten workers with job loss and they will allow such manipulation. Union employees are not affected. Humm.
460 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:44:48am |
re: #454 Pianobuff
I always thought that Latino was considered the mix between European (Spaniards largely) and the indigenous Indians.
You may be right. I have a Cuban freind though who says that he is of pure Spanish ancestory, & considers himself Latino.
462 | Irish Rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:45:34am |
re: #456 realwest
FWIW, I think (hope) that Irish Rose was talking about people on the stalker blog, LGF 2.0 not what people out here were saying about her.
Sadly, no.
I'm referring to comments that were made to me by other lizards.
463 | FrogMarch Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:45:41am |
re: #440 Mich-again
Not so obvious. It sounded like Obamabot talking points.
I couldn't keep a straight face after the intro. ;-)
..and the end he notes "sarcasm aside"...
By the end of the meeting, the insurance honchos were really punching below the belt — pointing out, for example, that Medicare was not exactly a font of innovation in terms of disease management, preventive programs, cost containment and modernization, while their companies actually were pioneers in such areas.
Sarcasm aside, I carry no brief for insurance companies. I'm sure they'd be delighted with a bill mandating universal coverage and guaranteed issue, so long as a public option were deep-sixed. And yet those reforms alone would do nothing to slow the growth of health-care costs and premiums, which are on an unsustainable course.
I'm just saying they have good reason to fear a public option, which ought to be stopped in the name of consumer choice; that they are no more the villains in health care than other players; and that it is simply inconceivable that the industry is as indifferent to overhead as the breathless fans of a public option contend.
464 | garycooper Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:45:56am |
re: #399 gregb
Wear it like a red badge of courage. That which doesn't kill us?
"Holding a grudge is like drinking poison hoping the other person will die."
Don't give them the satisfaction, Irish Rose.
465 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:47:55am |
re: #458 SasquatchOnSteroids Hey Sasquatch! I'm feeling a tad under the weather to coin a phrase, how are y'all doing today?
466 | gregb Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:48:00am |
re: #436 American Sabra
1. Too many millions of people can't afford insurance.
2. Too many people going broke paying their healthcare.
3. Insurance companies interfering with your doctor's advice. I have been twice denied an MRI for a condition in which I need one.
I have the best health insurance that (my) money can by and my co-pay just went up to $45 a visit.
Half of all healthcare is spent in the final years of a person's life.
467 | Irish Rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:48:25am |
re: #464 garycooper
"Holding a grudge is like drinking poison hoping the other person will die."
Don't give them the satisfaction, Irish Rose.
See my #408.
468 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:48:42am |
re: #460 opnion
You may be right. I have a Cuban freind though who says that he is of pure Spanish ancestory, & considers himself Latino.
the terms are considered interchangable for the most part
469 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:48:52am |
re: #453 American Sabra
Those illegals are often hired under the table at ridiculously low wages and no benefits, taking jobs away from the rest of us and who's fault is that? Theirs or those who hire them? It's their fault for wanting a better life in this country and they'll do anything to get it? I'm for making them legal btw. So all the "healthcare" they get is when they go to the emergency room at a city hospital which, yes, does add to the problem. Put them on a path to citizenship and fine the companies who keep hiring them. That will go far to solve that healthcare problem, too.
I have to take issue with that
1st, it's not YOUR job they are "taking away. The job belongs to the employer
2nd, I don't see too many US citizens lining up to do those jobs (chicken plucking,,, lettuce harvesting, etc). I't not like IBM is hiring illegals to do CEO work
470 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:49:41am |
re: #462 Irish Rose
What? Comments out HERE that were made by other Lizards?
Uh, can you tell us who or which thread(s) and didja report 'em to Charles?
471 | gregb Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:49:47am |
re: #443 Mich-again
Thems some badass dogs. Racoons are nasty in a fight and most dogs would be smart to not pick a fight.
Or stupid dogs. I'm going to have nightmares about it screaming for 25 minutes while I tried to get them off of it.
472 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:50:00am |
re: #468 albusteve
the terms are considered interchangable for the most part
Confusing.BTW your post about Sotomayor was not racist.
473 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:50:32am |
re: #465 realwest
Hey Sasquatch! I'm feeling a tad under the weather to coin a phrase, how are y'all doing today?
Sorry to hear that, friend. Hope you get to feeling better later.
We're all good, I've been put on a diet by myself. I miss my doughnuts already.
474 | lincolntf Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:50:39am |
Morning all.
In-laws just left after a 3-day visit. Surprisingly, their previous habit of bringing up the wonderfulness of Obama at every turn had completely disappeared. Politics never once entered any discussion during their visit.
Not a good sign for Barry.
475 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:51:22am |
re: #474 lincolntf
Morning all.
In-laws just left after a 3-day visit. Surprisingly, their previous habit of bringing up the wonderfulness of Obama at every turn had completely disappeared. Politics never once entered any discussion during their visit.
Not a good sign for Barry.
Maybe they've found out that this isn't the CHANGE they had HOPEd for!
476 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:52:18am |
re: #474 lincolntf
Morning all.
In-laws just left after a 3-day visit. Surprisingly, their previous habit of bringing up the wonderfulness of Obama at every turn had completely disappeared. Politics never once entered any discussion during their visit.
Not a good sign for Barry.
3-days with the in-laws...
You are a brave man.
477 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:52:32am |
re: #474 lincolntf
Morning all.
In-laws just left after a 3-day visit. Surprisingly, their previous habit of bringing up the wonderfulness of Obama at every turn had completely disappeared. Politics never once entered any discussion during their visit.
Not a good sign for Barry.
I would've been tempted to get in a few nasty digs about FCBBHO.
478 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:52:39am |
re: #470 realwest
ADDENDUM - Irish Rose - are there commenters out here who said something about stalking your family OFFLINE? (from your #408)? If so y'all ought to seriously report 'em to Charles NOW.
480 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:53:31am |
re: #474 lincolntf
Morning all.
In-laws just left after a 3-day visit. Surprisingly, their previous habit of bringing up the wonderfulness of Obama at every turn had completely disappeared. Politics never once entered any discussion during their visit.
Not a good sign for Barry.
A lot of Barry supporters are experiencing buyers remorse. How often do you hear one say, "I didn't know that."
He still holds onto a hardcore group that are ready to open a vein for him.
481 | lincolntf Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:53:36am |
re: #476 SasquatchOnSteroids
They're not so bad, but 3 days is a pretty good limit for all company.
482 | gregb Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:53:49am |
re: #449 albusteve
CA, Ill, MA, MI
lead the way for innovative state govt models
Best thing that ever happen to Orange County was our bankruptcy. Lean, mean government machine at a time when everything else was recessioning.
483 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:53:56am |
re: #472 opnion
Confusing.BTW your post about Sotomayor was not racist.
language and culture are pretty much one in the same...there are many Latinos that do not speak Spanish, which traditionally was one of the two descriptors for Hispanic...the other being of Spanish decent obviously...nowdays it's all the same, at least in NM, but Latino is by far the most widely used term
484 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:54:04am |
re: #479 jamgarr
Thank you my friend - uh, if y'all get a chance to e-mail me about what's going on with you I'd appreciate it a lot!
486 | swamprat Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:54:42am |
re: #432 SilverSeaOtter
...try to come up with answers that will help the country, not the Dems, not the Repubs, not whomever, but something that will help us all. Let's define the problem. Let's get some suggestions. Anyone?
tort reform.
reform and expand medicare/medicaid.
reign in medicine costs through(sic)tort reform, subsidies, international competition, and governmental and private watchdogs.
Government sponsored clinics, hospitals, and mobile rural medical care.
How's that?
487 | Gang of One Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:55:05am |
re: #453 American Sabra
Those illegals are often hired under the table at ridiculously low wages and no benefits, taking jobs away from the rest of us and who's fault is that? Theirs or those who hire them? It's their fault for wanting a better life in this country and they'll do anything to get it? I'm for making them legal btw. So all the "healthcare" they get is when they go to the emergency room at a city hospital which, yes, does add to the problem. Put them on a path to citizenship and fine the companies who keep hiring them. That will go far to solve that healthcare problem, too.
No, it's their 'fault' for not changing the political and economic realities back home. I lived in Mexico all told more than 13 years, have family there. I was there when Luis Donaldo Colosio, the PRI presidential candidate was assassinated in 1993 leading the way for Zedillo [who was his campaign manager and Sec of Education]. Zedillo's openness led the way for Vicente Fox of the PAN to wrestle control of the presidency from the PRI's 71-year stranglehold on Los Pinos. Mexico has a lot of problems, and one of them is the fact that El Norte is a safety valve. It cannot change overnight, but the Mexicans need to fix their nation first.
488 | Irish Rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:55:21am |
re: #470 realwest
What? Comments out HERE that were made by other Lizards?
Uh, can you tell us who or which thread(s) and didja report 'em to Charles?
Well since you asked, they're on the end of the Saturday morning open thread.
Apparently I'm not entitled to voice my anger when people over at Deuce accuse me of murdering my own father. Their behavior is all my fault, you see, and I should just STFU.
489 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:55:24am |
re: #466 gregb
Half of all healthcare is spent in the final years of a person's life.
Half? I've never seen that figure. Certainly when you're in your 20s or 30s, you most often don't need a doctor, except for women who go annually. But as you reach middle age, not end of life, it becomes more important. I know at least half a dozen people fighting cancer in mid-life, not end of life.
And btw, I was charged for a mammogram which is supposed to be free because I have a history of breast cancer in my family. $300 out of my pocket.
490 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:56:02am |
re: #481 lincolntf
They're not so bad, but 3 days is a pretty good limit for all company.
Fish and guests.
491 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:56:23am |
re: #481 lincolntf
They're not so bad, but 3 days is a pretty good limit for all company.
Agreed. I love my MIL, in 2 day stretches. Only because after that hers and my wifes claws start coming out.
Hisss.
492 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:56:27am |
re: #483 albusteve
language and culture are pretty much one in the same...there are many Latinos that do not speak Spanish, which traditionally was one of the two descriptors for Hispanic...the other being of Spanish decent obviously...nowdays it's all the same, at least in NM, but Latino is by far the most widely used term
re: #483 albusteve
Right
493 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:57:13am |
Good afternoon sentient beings!
What time is it at your place of residence?
Almost four in the afternoon over here.
494 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:57:17am |
re: #487 Gang of One
No, it's their 'fault' for not changing the political and economic realities back home. I lived in Mexico all told more than 13 years, have family there. I was there when Luis Donaldo Colosio, the PRI presidential candidate was assassinated in 1993 leading the way for Zedillo [who was his campaign manager and Sec of Education]. Zedillo's openness led the way for Vicente Fox of the PAN to wrestle control of the presidency from the PRI's 71-year stranglehold on Los Pinos. Mexico has a lot of problems, and one of them is the fact that El Norte is a safety valve. It cannot change overnight, but the Mexicans need to fix their nation first.
And the Cubans, Haitians, Dominicans too? How do they go about that?
495 | lincolntf Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:57:30am |
re: #477 MandyManners
I resisted.
I did have a few moments of smug satisfaction when there'd be a lull in conversation that would normally have been filled with "Have you heard how much Obama is going to reduce the deficit..." or something like that.
This time, we were pointedly stuck talking about the same Tiger Woods/Mike Vick stuff over and over.
496 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:57:34am |
re: #488 Irish Rose
Well since you asked, they're on the end of the Saturday morning open thread.
Apparently I'm not entitled to voice my anger when people over at Deuce accuse me of murdering my own father. Their behavior is all my fault, you see, and I should just STFU.
What you posted about what was said over there pissed me off.
497 | Coracle Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:57:56am |
re: #447 Gang of One
What's racist about it? Seriously.
It singles one member out as representative of, influential over, and/or responsible for an ethnicity's behavior.
If one wish to distinguish between ethnic bigotry and racism that's a prerogative, but it's just as ugly.
498 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:58:19am |
re: #495 lincolntf
I resisted.
I did have a few moments of smug satisfaction when there'd be a lull in conversation that would normally have been filled with "Have you heard how much Obama is going to reduce the deficit..." or something like that.
This time, we were pointedly stuck talking about the same Tiger Woods/Mike Vick stuff over and over.
Man, I wouldn't have been able to resist.
Let's all have a beer !
499 | laZardo Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:58:31am |
I've a question on "determining how many people are really uninsured":
How many of those people who "can afford it but don't get it" don't buy it because they know it won't actually cover them when shit hits the fan?
500 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:59:03am |
re: #488 Irish Rose
Well since you asked, they're on the end of the Saturday morning open thread.
Apparently I'm not entitled to voice my anger when people over at Deuce accuse me of murdering my own father. Their behavior is all my fault, you see, and I should just STFU.
Rose, you're an important person on this blog. You have a lot of love and respect here. In fairness, only one person made the comment that you should let it go. Personally, I agree. It's not healthy for you. When you keep responding, you keep that flame going. Just my opinion.
501 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:59:25am |
Healthcare?
Oh dear. I won't jump into the middle of that debate. Rather wait until the next thread pops up.
502 | garycooper Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:59:40am |
re: #467 Irish Rose
See my #408.
Offline, too? That's another story. Without knowing the details, I'd just like to point out the obvious, that these are pretty sad, pathetic people, who might need some authoritarian intervention.
504 | Gang of One Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:00:04am |
re: #494 American Sabra
And the Cubans, Haitians, Dominicans too? How do they go about that?
Just like Mexico, they have to work it out. They want to come here, fine. Come here legally.
505 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:00:12am |
re: #501 HAL2010
Healthcare?
Oh dear. I won't jump into the middle of that debate. Rather wait until the next thread pops up.
You're HAL2010.
You're supposed to say "I can't do that thread,Dave".
506 | pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:00:33am |
Blessed are the Peacekeepers
(aka, a poultry excuse for one's buns being in an uproar)
507 | Irish Rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:01:11am |
re: #478 realwest
ADDENDUM - Irish Rose - are there commenters out here who said something about stalking your family OFFLINE? (from your #408)? If so y'all ought to seriously report 'em to Charles NOW.
No.
508 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:02:26am |
re: #505 SasquatchOnSteroids
You're HAL2010.
You're supposed to say "I can't do that thread,Dave".
I've just had a new patch, so it's all good!
HAL.1.01
Less murder, more divisive comments online to further perpetuate the culture war
511 | yma o hyd Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:05:40am |
Hiya, Lizard Nation!
How are things in Lizardia, on this fine (well, not here, but what else is new!) Sunday?
512 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:05:51am |
The sidebar in gregb's No. 406 is infuriating.
Town Hall Face
An unsightly condition caused by unsanitary health-care politics
[Link: www.newsweek.com...]
I cannot cut and paste the cut-line but, it's about people's face when they get emotional at those meetings.
I highly doubt anyone in the MFM published photographs or derrogatory comments about moonbats at protests during Pres. Bush's terms.
513 | SilverSeaOtter Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:05:55am |
There seems to be a group of people in the US who do not have health insurance. Between 12 to 50 million people. Are these people citizens or illegal aliens? Should all citizens and/or any illegal aliens have insurance? With the system set up the way it is now, anyone can get health care in the US. The question of paying for it then becomes a problem. Does the public pay for it out of our taxes, or do employers/self employed pay for it with higher premiums or a combination or something entirely different. Health savings accounts seem to me to be a good way to go. Everyone has one, you are required to put a low percentage (less than 3%) of your weekly income into the account, and you have a disaster insurance through your employer to cover the big problems. Or is there another way? What would that be?
514 | laZardo Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:06:07am |
re: #487 Gang of One
If I may add, the reality Stateside oughta be changed a bit too.
I'm petitioning my Filipino mother for permanent residency. Even though I'm considered lucky for petitioning my mother specifically (siblings take 20 years!) it's still costing us a locally-whopping $355 just to send in the application. I can imagine that sort of cost would practically encourage illegal immigration.
515 | Irish Rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:06:31am |
re: #502 garycooper
Offline, too? That's another story. Without knowing the details, I'd just like to point out the obvious, that these are pretty sad, pathetic people, who might need some authoritarian intervention.
I'm not their only victim.
You can add Hoosier Hoops, Sharmuta and Charles to that list.
517 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:07:01am |
re: #511 yma o hyd
Hiya, Lizard Nation!
How are things in Lizardia, on this fine (well, not here, but what else is new!) Sunday?
Space-ious
518 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:07:08am |
re: #488 Irish Rose
Hey Rose - I just went over to that thread and I didn't see any LGF commenters making those vile statements about you (in fact I only recall seeing Cato The Elder commenting on what was said about you on LGF 2.0 and he was supportive of you).
I'm as serious as I can be: if there are LGFer's commenting about stalking your family offline here, or otherwise saying things that are out of line (putting it mildly here) you really ought to tell Charles or hell TELL US who they are. Cause they sure as hell don't belong on LGF.
519 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:07:23am |
re: #515 Irish Rose
With all due respect, sometimes you just gotta' drop the rope.
520 | jamgarr Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:08:57am |
And some say chivalry is dead!
/good on you real
521 | Irish Rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:09:12am |
522 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:09:19am |
my Sun morning contribution to American Modern Art
524 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:11:30am |
re: #519 MandyManners
Good morning Mandy - I'd agree with you if it was just those mean folks on LGF 2.0 but Rose said it was lizards out here on LGF who were being mean and nasty to her and (I gather) said they were or are in fact stalking her family.
That's not a rope I'd let go of, I assure you of that.
And IRISH ROSE - I've reported the comments to Charles - cause although directed at you, it affects the feeling of "community" as fragile as it may be these days, on LGF.
525 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:11:55am |
526 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:12:08am |
re: #513 SilverSeaOtter
I answered you here
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Your problem is again the numbers. You can't tell us if there are 12 or 50 million uninsured. You can't come up with a solution until you identify thwe problem. There is a HUGE difference between 12 million uninsured as opposed to 50 millio0n. Each would require a totally different fix
ANALOGY,,
A) you have one car tire that is low on air
B) you have 4 car tires that are slashed on the sidewalls
Same solution? NOPE!
528 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:12:56am |
re: #525 MandyManners
This is the first time my mom's been back to church since the first or second week in June! She's now able to walk some distance without assistance.
That's some good and welcome news !
529 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:13:15am |
re: #524 realwest
Good morning Mandy - I'd agree with you if it was just those mean folks on LGF 2.0 but Rose said it was lizards out here on LGF who were being mean and nasty to her and (I gather) said they were or are in fact stalking her family.
That's not a rope I'd let go of, I assure you of that.
And IRISH ROSE - I've reported the comments to Charles - cause although directed at you, it affects the feeling of "community" as fragile as it may be these days, on LGF.
I'm confused...
530 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:13:32am |
re: #526 sattv4u2
Good morning sattv4u2 - please see my #384 above. I'd appreciate it if you would.
532 | midwestgak Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:14:08am |
re: #511 yma o hyd
Hey {yma}
To your health
533 | Irish Rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:14:56am |
re: #524 realwest
Good morning Mandy - I'd agree with you if it was just those mean folks on LGF 2.0 but Rose said it was lizards out here on LGF who were being mean and nasty to her and (I gather) said they were or are in fact stalking her family.
That's not a rope I'd let go of, I assure you of that.
And IRISH ROSE - I've reported the comments to Charles - cause although directed at you, it affects the feeling of "community" as fragile as it may be these days, on LGF.
Thanks real.
I think you misunderstood what I was saying, though.
534 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:15:11am |
re: #525 MandyManners
This is the first time my mom's been back to church since the first or second week in June! She's now able to walk some distance without assistance.
Whoa, that's some GREAT NEWS! Thanks for brightening up my day!
And - hope you don't mind me sayin so, but y'all ought to e-mail wahabi so she can modifiy The List.
535 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:15:16am |
re: #512 MandyManners
The sidebar in gregb's No. 406 is infuriating.
[Link: www.newsweek.com...]I cannot cut and paste the cut-line but, it's about people's face when they get emotional at those meetings.
I highly doubt anyone in the MFM published photographs or derrogatory comments about moonbats at protests during Pres. Bush's terms.
Mandy, apparently you did not get the memo. When"Progressives disrupt meetings, rush the stage & throw things a speakers, that is the best of participatory democracy. Their dissent is patriotic, they are speaking truth to power, listening to their better angels.
When Soccer Moms & Senior Citizen Veterans protest they are just evil & channneling Hitler.
I do hope that this helps.
536 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:16:02am |
re: #531 taxfreekiller
Hey TFK my friend - respectfully this is not a joking matter.
537 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:16:17am |
re: #530 realwest
Good morning sattv4u2 - please see my #384 above. I'd appreciate it if you would.
I've been saying since day 1 we need an HONEST and ACCURATE count of the "uninsured" BEFORE we can come up with a solution. What the Dems are trying to do is come up with a fix THEN go find a problem for it to fit
538 | Irish Rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:16:28am |
re: #525 MandyManners
This is the first time my mom's been back to church since the first or second week in June! She's now able to walk some distance without assistance.
Now that is some welcome good news!
539 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:17:43am |
540 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:18:16am |
Oh what the hell, I'll jump into the frying pan.
Just curious, what is the news over your side of the pond saying about the NHS?
I know Hannan was on FOX talking about it, is anyone else talking about it?
541 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:19:05am |
re: #529 albusteve
I'm confused...
Me too, I went back to that thread & saw nothing threatening or even derogatory to Irish Rose by any LGF posters.
Could just be that I missed it.
543 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:19:10am |
re: #534 realwest
Whoa, that's some GREAT NEWS! Thanks for brightening up my day!
And - hope you don't mind me sayin so, but y'all ought to e-mail wahabi so she can modifiy The List.
Thank you!
I'd prefer to keep mom on the list because she is dying because she's aspirating every time she eats.
544 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:19:13am |
re: #509 taxfreekiller
NO
I can understand how you feel that way. Native Americans are still being treated the worst out of anyone, those who don't have gaming anyway. Not that this should be news to anyone, but unemployment on Lakota reservations is upwards of 80% with no healthcare, huge HS dropout rates and the like. That has been going on for a very long while.
546 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:19:49am |
re: #535 opnion
Mandy, apparently you did not get the memo. When"Progressives disrupt meetings, rush the stage & throw things a speakers, that is the best of participatory democracy. Their dissent is patriotic, they are speaking truth to power, listening to their better angels.
When Soccer Moms & Senior Citizen Veterans protest they are just evil & channneling Hitler.
I do hope that this helps.
Thank you, Comrade Opnion. My mind is re-adjusted.
547 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:20:23am |
548 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:20:47am |
549 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:20:54am |
re: #533 Irish Rose
Well I read your comments #462 and 488 above and thought you were saying that people on LGF were talking trash to you about your family (putting it much more mildly than I feel) and I'm sorry if reading those two comments led me to an incorrect conclussion.
I'm sorry, but I kinda react RAPIDLY and sometimes VIOLENTLY when people do what I thought folks out HERE were doing to you.
Again, I'm sorry if I misunderstood you.
551 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:21:42am |
re: #546 MandyManners
Thank you, Comrade Opnion. My mind is re-adjusted.
I live to serve, carry on Citizen Mandy.
553 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:22:51am |
re: #541 opnion
Me too, I went back to that thread & saw nothing threatening or even derogatory to Irish Rose by any LGF posters.
Could just be that I missed it.
it's all very cryptic
554 | Gang of One Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:23:03am |
re: #544 American Sabra
I can understand how you feel that way. Native Americans are still being treated the worst out of anyone, those who don't have gaming anyway. Not that this should be news to anyone, but unemployment on Lakota reservations is upwards of 80% with no healthcare, huge HS dropout rates and the like. That has been going on for a very long while.
Now that is an issue on which I can fully stand on with you. This is an American tragedy, and I must admit I don't know enough about it. This is certainly a problem that Americans must solve.
555 | Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:23:20am |
I wanted to chime in about the Medieval Warm Period. I hear about it again and again in threads about AGW.
This journal paper was published in Science in 2003. Science is one of the journals of note.
[Link: www.sciencemag.org...]
Many papers have referred to a "Medieval Warm Period." But how well defined is climate in this period, and was it as warm as or warmer than it is today? In their Perspective, Bradley et al. review the evidence and conclude that although the High Medieval (1100 to 1200 A.D.) was warmer than subsequent centuries, it was not warmer than the late 20th century. Moreover, the warmest Medieval temperatures were not synchronous around the globe. Large changes in precipitation patterns are a particular characteristic of "High Medieval" time. The underlying mechanisms for such changes must be elucidated further to inform the ongoing debate on natural climate variability and anthropogenic climate change.
Here is a site from NOA that goes into various proxy reconstructions.
[Link: www.ncdc.noaa.gov...]
Notice how the 20th warms up substantially after a long overall trend of cooling.
556 | Irish Rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:23:25am |
re: #547 MandyManners
Thank you. Her will is of steel.
God bless her.
My dad was the same way... something that can be said for a lot of men and women of that generation. Will of steel, iron resolve.
558 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:24:07am |
561 | Irish Rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:25:27am |
re: #549 realwest
Well I read your comments #462 and 488 above and thought you were saying that people on LGF were talking trash to you about your family (putting it much more mildly than I feel) and I'm sorry if reading those two comments led me to an incorrect conclussion.
I'm sorry, but I kinda react RAPIDLY and sometimes VIOLENTLY when people do what I thought folks out HERE were doing to you.
Again, I'm sorry if I misunderstood you.
I appreciate your support, real.
No problem.
562 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:26:05am |
re: #556 Irish Rose
God bless her.
My dad was the same way... something that can be said for a lot of men and women of that generation. Will of steel, iron resolve.
She passed it on to me and, I've passed it on to The Kid.
Of course, it could be re-labelled "pig-headed".
563 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:27:19am |
Good Lord, there is not a single piece of junk food in this house.
I've looked twice. Panic attack.
564 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:27:26am |
565 | Irish Rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:27:55am |
re: #562 MandyManners
She passed it on to me and, I've passed it on to The Kid.
Of course, it could be re-labelled "pig-headed".
567 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:28:21am |
re: #563 SasquatchOnSteroids
Good Lord, there is not a single piece of junk food in this house.
I've looked twice. Panic attack.
How will you get your RDA of perservatives?!
569 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:28:54am |
re: #563 SasquatchOnSteroids
Good Lord, there is not a single piece of junk food in this house.
I've looked twice. Panic attack.
Good Lord. Any takeaway places nearby?
570 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:31:06am |
571 | gregb Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:32:11am |
re: #489 American Sabra
Half? I've never seen that figure. Certainly when you're in your 20s or 30s, you most often don't need a doctor, except for women who go annually. But as you reach middle age, not end of life, it becomes more important. I know at least half a dozen people fighting cancer in mid-life, not end of life.
And btw, I was charged for a mammogram which is supposed to be free because I have a history of breast cancer in my family. $300 out of my pocket.
I can't find the research from the early 90's, but it was written as an article on death taxes and inheritance. I did find this March 2004 "efficiency curve" paper, however, that is pretty interesting. They seem to peg the problems (at least from a healthcare provider cost standpoint).
www.oracle.com/industries/healthcare/oracle_health_final.pdf
572 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:33:22am |
573 | swamprat Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:33:53am |
re: #562 MandyManners
Resolve, pig headedness, whatever you call it, is amazing. It will replace ability, intelligence, luck, education. What is achieved through this this medium can not be measured. And when combined with any other positive traits, it can be unstopable
574 | jvic Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:34:48am |
re: #23 HelloDare
The quality of moral behaviour varies in inverse ratio to the number of human beings involved.— Aldous Huxley
There are 435 members of the House of Representatives. And 100 Senators.
"The senators are decent men but the Senate is an evil beast." Senatores boni viri, senatus autem mala bestia.
575 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:34:54am |
re: #572 HAL2010
If I attacked you with one, would you know how to defend yourself against it?
Bananas are the only fruit or veg I've noticed tasted a lot better if it is organic.
Yeah, but you're just a piece of metal with some fancy dancy doo-dads that enable you to
576 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:35:10am |
re: #554 Gang of One
Now that is an issue on which I can fully stand on with you. This is an American tragedy, and I must admit I don't know enough about it. This is certainly a problem that Americans must solve.
Indeed. A few years ago, that big mouth Tancredo went off on how Miami is a "third world country" neglecting the fact that Cubans who manage to make it to the states are ushered into the system. I'm not against that, although I think the privilege should be given to other immigrants, but what irks me is that he should have looked North to our own indigenous people. In fact, the Lakota chairman has been driven into the hands of Chavez of all people because of it!
577 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:35:51am |
re: #572 HAL2010
If I attacked you with one, would you know how to defend yourself against it?
Take it up on aPeel ?
578 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:36:27am |
re: #575 realwest
Yeah, but you're just a piece of metal with some fancy dancy doo-dads that enable you to
Thats it, no more self-defence classes against robots with fruit for you!
579 | laZardo Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:36:35am |
re: #576 American Sabra
I think the irony of trying to help the Native American system is that doing so runs a very high risk of being considered as trying to "white-ize" them i.e. "destroy their culture as has been done for 200+ years." It's probably why people try to sidestep the issue.
580 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:37:21am |
re: #571 gregb
I can't find the research from the early 90's, but it was written as an article on death taxes and inheritance. I did find this March 2004 "efficiency curve" paper, however, that is pretty interesting. They seem to peg the problems (at least from a healthcare provider cost standpoint).
www.oracle.com/industries/healthcare/oracle_health _final.pdf
The link no worky :(
581 | yma o hyd Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:37:25am |
Sorry - got called away!
Will work my way downthread ...
:-(
583 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:38:12am |
584 | Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:38:37am |
re: #563 SasquatchOnSteroids
Good Lord, there is not a single piece of junk food in this house.
I've looked twice. Panic attack.
Toothpaste works in a pinch.
585 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:39:09am |
586 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:39:18am |
40 years ago this weekend...I missed it by a hair
587 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:39:53am |
588 | yma o hyd Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:40:02am |
re: #532 midwestgak
Hey {yma}
To your health
Hiya, {gak}!
Thanks!
(Trying desperately to keep up ... from waaayy behind ...!)
590 | lawhawk Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:40:05am |
re: #526 sattv4u2
I answered you here
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]Your problem is again the numbers. You can't tell us if there are 12 or 50 million uninsured. You can't come up with a solution until you identify thwe problem. There is a HUGE difference between 12 million uninsured as opposed to 50 millio0n. Each would require a totally different fix
ANALOGY,,
A) you have one car tire that is low on air
B) you have 4 car tires that are slashed on the sidewallsSame solution? NOPE!
Cash.For.Clunkers. /
591 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:40:43am |
re: #579 laZardo
I think the irony of trying to help the Native American system is that doing so runs a very high risk of being considered as trying to "white-ize" them i.e. "destroy their culture as has been done for 200+ years." It's probably why people try to sidestep the issue.
Reservations for non-casino Indians are dreary places & even many that have gaming.
Sustance abuse, Diabetes & suicide among other things are rampant.
THe issue becomes how tight to you hang on to your culture or do you get off of the reservation & break the pathology?
592 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:40:45am |
593 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:41:18am |
re: #573 swamprat
Resolve, pig headedness, whatever you call it, is amazing. It will replace ability, intelligence, luck, education. What is achieved through this this medium can not be measured. And when combined with any other positive traits, it can be unstopable
It got me out of a few bad situations when I grew up.
594 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:41:21am |
re: #579 laZardo
I think the irony of trying to help the Native American system is that doing so runs a very high risk of being considered as trying to "white-ize" them i.e. "destroy their culture as has been done for 200+ years." It's probably why people try to sidestep the issue.
Well the poverty on these reservations is beyond outrageous. These folks are dealing with the most basic of human needs, food and shelter, not even getting to assimilation issues. There's no excuse for it.
596 | Irish Rose Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:43:12am |
597 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:43:34am |
re: #594 American Sabra
Well the poverty on these reservations is beyond outrageous. These folks are dealing with the most basic of human needs, food and shelter, not even getting to assimilation issues. There's no excuse for it.
there are no resources to exploit for the Lakota...it is their homeland because there were buffalo...Pine Ridge is the worst place in the world for a rez
599 | yma o hyd Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:44:26am |
re: #540 HAL2010
Oh what the hell, I'll jump into the frying pan.
Just curious, what is the news over your side of the pond saying about the NHS?
I know Hannan was on FOX talking about it, is anyone else talking about it?
Blimey - speak about poking a hornet's nest!
NuLab is up in arms about what Hannan said - dave cameron distanced himself from Hannan - the NuLab slaves are now even twittering 'welovethenhs' - acres of trees felled for rebuttals of Hannan from left to right in the MFM - conservative blogs defending him: yeah, totally irrational, if you ask me.
Hannan is right, and normal people who haven't (yet) been brainwashed agree with him.
There are better solutions than the NHS, or obamacare, even in Europe.
But they are, of course, not proper 'socialist' health care plans ...
600 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:44:56am |
Time for my daily S,S and S.
Agent 26971 out.
601 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:45:28am |
re: #591 opnion
Reservations for non-casino Indians are dreary places & even many that have gaming.
Sustance abuse, Diabetes & suicide among other things are rampant.
THe issue becomes how tight to you hang on to your culture or do you get off of the reservation & break the pathology?
They shouldn't have to leave the reservation for basic needs. That's really the point. No other citizens are treated this way.
602 | garycooper Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:45:44am |
re: #555 LudwigVanQuixote
Once more, with feeling: "Less than a degree in the past century. NO warming in the past decade, on land or at sea."
Inconvenient, or wonderful? Leave that to the High Foreheads to decide, I guess.
603 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:46:04am |
re: #598 laZardo
I'm not sure, that model probably had some botox.
604 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:47:43am |
re: #597 albusteve
there are no resources to exploit for the Lakota...it is their homeland because there were buffalo...Pine Ridge is the worst place in the world for a rez
Absolutely, when the Lakota have to go to Venezuela to get help, doesn't that conjure up a red flag to anyone?
606 | laZardo Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:48:03am |
re: #603 HAL2010
Oh, I thought you were talking about the banana. :D
607 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:48:13am |
re: #586 albusteve YUP! And I missed it by SEVERAL THOUSAND MILES but I was there in spirit! LOL!
608 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:48:21am |
re: #599 yma o hyd
Yeah I know, I do not like his comments, simply because they are a heaven send to Gordon, who will now make the whole damn campaign about healthcare. Although I do agree with him in principal (I am a member of the TFA and the conservative party and a libertarian), his comments, however true, damage our chances of winning the next election.
609 | swamprat Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:49:16am |
, re: #562 MandyManners
She passed it on to me and, I've passed it on to The Kid.
Of course, it could be re-labelled "pig-headed".
Found it!
* Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education alone will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.
John Calvin Coolidge
And of course;
Stubborness we deprecate,
Firmness we condone,
The former is our neighbors trait
The latter is our own.
610 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:49:22am |
re: #606 laZardo
It depends. How many post can be sexually suggestive, without being obvious?
612 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:50:45am |
re: #604 American Sabra
Absolutely, when the Lakota have to go to Venezuela to get help, doesn't that conjure up a red flag to anyone?
agreed...it's our own home made humanitarian disaster...there is plenty of wealth here and there to provide for these folks...it's a disgrace
613 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:51:06am |
re: #609 swamprat
,
Found it!* Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education alone will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race. John Calvin Coolidge
And of course;
Stubborness we deprecate,
Firmness we condone,
The former is our neighbors trait
The latter is our own.
We need more of this attitude in society nowadays.
616 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:52:19am |
re: #612 albusteve
agreed...it's our own home made humanitarian disaster...there is plenty of wealth here and there to provide for these folks...it's a disgrace
Aren't reservations considered sovereign land of the tribes?
617 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:52:23am |
re: #599 yma o hyd
Hi there {yma} How are you this afternoon - early evening?!?
618 | yma o hyd Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:52:42am |
And here's something to get your blood pressure up, if thats needed:
David Miliband: There are circumstances in which terrorism can be justifiable
From that link:
'Foreign Secretary David Miliband was accused last night of condoning terrorism after declaring that there were circumstances in which it was ‘justifiable’.
His remarks – made in support of the ANC’s armed struggle against apartheid in South Africa – were swiftly condemned by the Conservatives, who accused him of giving succour to the Taliban in Afghanistan.'
And:
'Last night, Shadow Foreign Secretary William Hague said the remarks were ill-judged. He said: ‘Ministers must be very careful before advancing any argument that seems to legitimise terrorism in some circumstances.
When so much of the efforts of our security services, and the sacrifices of our troops in Afghanistan, are devoted to defeating terrorists, this is hardly the time to argue that terrorism is sometimes acceptable.’
Gawd, the LL are truly Loony!
(William Hague, btw, is of course a Tory and will be our next Foreign Secretary.)
619 | Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:52:55am |
re: #602 garycooper
Once more, with feeling: "Less than a degree in the past century. NO warming in the past decade, on land or at sea."
Inconvenient, or wonderful? Leave that to the High Foreheads to decide, I guess.
Ahhh, yes, you are the one who still refuses to look at actual data.
You are the one who brought a debunked list of 400 "scientists" , where many of the "scientists" were economists, political hacks and tv weathermen.
When Charles pointed it out to you. You said you already knew that the list had been debunked - and yet you brought it anyway.
Now as to less than a degree, you need to understand how dramatic a change that is over a whole planet and that not only is the temp going up, but the rate at which it is increasing is also going up.
Further. Had you actually read this, you would see that if you consider the present warming trivial, than you must consider the medieval warm period even more trivial.
As to high foreheads, I don't know about that, but you would feel less threatened by scientists and other smart people who actually know what they are talking about, if you took the time to open your eyes and think.
620 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:53:00am |
re: #607 realwest
YUP! And I missed it by SEVERAL THOUSAND MILES but I was there in spirit! LOL!
our car broke down outside of Pittsburg...that was it for us..when we heard on the radio about the insane traffic problems we decided we were better off to go back home
621 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:53:14am |
re: #611 realwest
And I beat you both at #384! LOL!
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I had this from yesterday
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
622 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:53:54am |
re: #615 laZardo
Depends on what one sees as "suggestive."
If you know what I mean.
I don't know about "that", but I think I have a ... hunch?
624 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:54:34am |
re: #616 MandyManners
Aren't reservations considered sovereign land of the tribes?
pretty much yes...I think the feds have some jurisdiction with federal crime
625 | austin_blue Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:54:35am |
Buon giorno Lizardi!
Any meltdowns last night?
626 | laZardo Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:54:45am |
re: #618 yma o hyd
Of course the war in Afghanistan is "unwinnable" if the MoD can't arse themselves to send the proper equipment over there!
/first thing I thought when I saw that poll...
627 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:55:12am |
re: #597 albusteve
there are no resources to exploit for the Lakota...it is their homeland because there were buffalo...Pine Ridge is the worst place in the world for a rez
The best is Foxwoods in Connecticut. Their Casino & hotels are some of the best that you'll ever see. They are the largest chaitable contributor in the state , have their own Preferred Prrovider Network & RX program that they sell.
In the Casino, the guys that you see in the $3,000 suits are the Tribal Elders.
629 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:56:01am |
re: #625 austin_blue
Buon giorno Lizardi!
Any meltdowns last night?
ummm,, I had a big bowl of chocolate fudge brownie chunk ice cream that I left out for about 20 minutes before devouring. Some of it was melted down, but ALL of it was YUMMY
Does that count?
630 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:56:04am |
re: #623 taxfreekiller
Pine Ridge is where it is because the gold was elsewhere.
yep...a rip off of epic proportion, unsettled to this day
631 | yma o hyd Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:57:16am |
re: #608 HAL2010
Yeah I know, I do not like his comments, simply because they are a heaven send to Gordon, who will now make the whole damn campaign about healthcare. Although I do agree with him in principal (I am a member of the TFA and the conservative party and a libertarian), his comments, however true, damage our chances of winning the next election.
And that is the only reason why I thought his appearence and his comment was ill-judged: it doesn't do to damage the chances of a Tory win.
We can see again and again that NuLab is just waiting for such gaffes - and is also waiting for any morsles hinting at Cameron's policies once he's in 10 Downing Street: they will pinch any idea!
The latest is Alistair Darling (Finance) pinching the proposals Osborne (Tory, Shadow Finance) threw out recently in regard to the bonuses of bankers in those banks where the state holds a stake.
Now Darling will do it - even more so.
NuLab may be in its death trhoes - but theya re as shameless as ever.
632 | Pianobuff Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:57:44am |
re: #619 LudwigVanQuixote
Ahhh, yes, you are the one who still refuses to look at actual data.
You are the one who brought a debunked list of 400 "scientists" , where many of the "scientists" were economists, political hacks and tv weathermen.
When Charles pointed it out to you. You said you already knew that the list had been debunked - and yet you brought it anyway.
Now as to less than a degree, you need to understand how dramatic a change that is over a whole planet and that not only is the temp going up, but the rate at which it is increasing is also going up.
Further. Had you actually read this, you would see that if you consider the present warming trivial, than you must consider the medieval warm period even more trivial.
As to high foreheads, I don't know about that, but you would feel less threatened by scientists and other smart people who actually know what they are talking about, if you took the time to open your eyes and think.
Wondering if you had a chance to read back into the thread of the 9th since comments have been added over the last week.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Particularly comments 1346-1348... Wondering your opinion.
633 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:58:06am |
re: #616 MandyManners
Aren't reservations considered sovereign land of the tribes?
As I understand it, tribal sovereignty enables them to govern themselves. Excusing the wiki reference, it's described more here.
Still doesn't address the poverty on these reservations when others are given a hellofa lot more.
634 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:58:11am |
re: #628 taxfreekiller
Obama's meltdown is not on lgf's but us well known in any case.
Just wait until ALL of his "programs" start getting shot down. We will see a meltdown of epic proportion.
635 | Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:58:37am |
re: #625 austin_blue
Buon giorno Lizardi!
Any meltdowns last night?
No, everyone knows I work on Friday, Sat. and Sunday nights.
636 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:58:57am |
re: #624 albusteve
pretty much yes...I think the feds have some jurisdiction with federal crime
What can be done to mobilize the tribal leadership to help the people improve their circumstances?
637 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:59:06am |
re: #627 opnion
The best is Foxwoods in Connecticut. Their Casino & hotels are some of the best that you'll ever see. They are the largest chaitable contributor in the state , have their own Preferred Prrovider Network & RX program that they sell.
In the Casino, the guys that you see in the $3,000 suits are the Tribal Elders.
NM Tribes have some stuff going...much different history tho
[Link: www.golfcochititoday.com...]
639 | yma o hyd Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:59:42am |
re: #617 realwest
Hi there {yma} How are you this afternoon - early evening?!?
Hiya, {rw}!
We're ok, its grey outside - I just stuffed a pill down Madame's throat, which she only accepts because she gets a treat afterwards!
Hope you're fine and that its a lovely Sunday morning for you!
640 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:00:04am |
re: #631 yma o hyd
Frankly, I do not believe it was a gaffe. It was far to calculated, he is too intelligent. Cameron is one strand of tory, Hannan another. Clearly there will be arguments and debates. But this is one opinion he should have spoken of either after the election, or even better, internally while discussing policy reviews.
641 | laZardo Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:00:15am |
re: #622 HAL2010
Don't drop that hunch, just stay on it until you get it.
642 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:00:18am |
re: #625 austin_blue
Buon giorno Lizardi!
Any meltdowns last night?
I went with The Kid to a neighbor's party so I missed out on any meltdowns and flounces.
643 | swamprat Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:01:43am |
re: #636 MandyManners
What can be done to mobilize the tribal leadership to help the people improve their circumstances?
Place an Indian to head the Bureau Of Indian Affairs.
644 | yma o hyd Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:01:52am |
re: #626 laZardo
Of course the war in Afghanistan is "unwinnable" if the MoD can't arse themselves to send the proper equipment over there!
/first thing I thought when I saw that poll...
Yep - and we all know that!
But there will always be bleeding hearts ... I just wonder what they'd have said if the same reporting had been available at the Battle of the Somme - where tens of thosuands perished in the first few days ...
645 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:02:25am |
re: #633 American Sabra
As I understand it, tribal sovereignty enables them to govern themselves. Excusing the wiki reference, it's described more here.
Still doesn't address the poverty on these reservations when others are given a hellofa lot more.
As I asked a moment ago, what can the tribal leadership do to help their citizens improve their lives?
646 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:02:42am |
re: #563 SasquatchOnSteroids
Good Lord, there is not a single piece of junk food in this house.
I've looked twice. Panic attack.
Mix equal parts of salt, sugar and vegetable oil. Not perfect, but it'll do in an emergency.
647 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:02:54am |
re: #634 VegasRick
Just wait until ALL of his "programs" start getting shot down. We will see a meltdown of epic proportion.
It's gonna get worse before it gets better
1st the banks
2nd the car companies
3rd health insurance
NEXT,,,COMING TO A CITY NEAR YOU SOON
WASHINGTON - The Obama administration, in a major shift on housing policy, is abandoning George W. Bush’s vision of creating an “ownership society’’ and instead plans to pump $4.25 billion of economic stimulus money into creating tens of thousands of federally subsidized rental units in American cities.
[Link: www.boston.com...]
648 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:03:01am |
Here is a topic of discussion:
We have achieved the operational goals we set out in 2001 regarding Afghanistan. True or false?
649 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:03:07am |
651 | swamprat Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:04:38am |
re: #649 MandyManners
I don't think so. And it is justifiably a sore point.
652 | Last Mohican Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:04:46am |
re: #373 Pianobuff
Vaccine news is often linked to conspiracy theories. This one sounds like it might be different, though, and worth a read.
Swine flu jab link to killer nerve disease: Leaked letter reveals concern of neurologists over 25 deaths in AmericaAny doctors out there that may know whether there's any merit to this?
There's a kernel of truth to this article, but it's basically just stupid, inflammatory propaganda.
Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS) basically results from one's immune system attacking one's own nerves. It's usually triggered by some kind of infection that revs up the immune system. In North America and Europe, by far the most common infection is Campylobacter jejuni, a bacterium that causes bad diarrhea. However, GBS can also be triggered by various medications and vaccinations. This is very rare. One study found that, over two seasons of flu vaccinations, the vaccine caused approximately 1.7 cases of GBS per million vaccinations. Another study found no increased risk at all.
The "Swine Flu Debacle of 1976" is the basis of the the letter described in this article. That year, about 40 million people received the vaccine, and 532 cases of vaccine-related GBS were detected. The CDC estimated that the risk of GBS from receiving the vaccine was about 1 in 1000, which was seven times greater than the risk to the general population. At least, these are the figures that I've read. The math doesn't seem to work out to me, but that's what I've read.
The 1976 "debacle" is often cited as an example of the dangers of vaccination, because the flu itself turned out to kill fewer people than the vaccine did. However, this year's swine flu vaccination has not been shown to be linked to an increased risk of GBS. The Health Protection Agency was merely suggesting to doctors that they be alert and keep track of the development of any complications, should they occur. It's pretty much standard practice whenever any new drug is released.
653 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:04:47am |
re: #636 MandyManners
What can be done to mobilize the tribal leadership to help the people improve their circumstances?
I don't see how than can improve themselves in that area...it's desolate and forbidding...they want the Black Hills back and I don't blame them...there is well over a hundred million in federal money in escrow in the bank...the Sioux won't touch it...if they do the spirit is broken
654 | Killian Bundy Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:04:52am |
Row over Afghan wife-starving law
Afghan legislation allowing a husband to starve his wife if she refuses to have sex has been published in the official gazette and become law.
The original bill caused outrage earlier this year, forcing Afghan President Hamid Karzai to withdraw it.
But critics say the amended version of the law remains highly repressive.
They accuse Mr Karzai of selling out Afghan women for the sake of conservative Shia support at next week's presidential election.
The law governs family life for Afghanistan's Shia minority.
Sexual demands
The original version obliged Shia women to have sex with their husbands every four days at a minimum, and it effectively condoned rape by removing the need for consent to sex within marriage.
The original bill caused outrage within Afghanistan and around the world
Western leaders and Afghan women's groups were united in condemning an apparent reversal of key freedoms won by women after the fall of the Taliban.Now an amended version of the same bill has passed quietly into law with the apparent approval of President Karzai.
/Hamid Karzai, he's our man, if he can't win, no one can!
655 | Gang of One Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:05:14am |
re: #642 MandyManners
I went with The Kid to a neighbor's party so I missed out on any meltdowns and flounces.
Are you the Miss Manners MM was referring to?
FTA:
The White House press office is now Miss Manners’ office. President Obama’s press secretary Robert Gibbs took to the television airwaves this week to criticize congressional town hall protesters for “yelling.” Gibbs’ underling, Bill Barton, chastised voters not to “disrupt” and “scream.” Instead, he advised America to engage in a “spirited debate about health care, a real vigorous conversation about it.”
What constitutes “spirited?” How do they define “vigorous?” When does forceful dissent become intolerable disruption? Herewith, the Obama Etiquette Czar’s Official Rules for Patriotic Protest. Keep this guide with you at all times to avoid being flagged by the Democrat politeness monitors.
657 | laZardo Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:06:31am |
re: #648 HAL2010
Here is a topic of discussion:
We have achieved the operational goals we set out in 2001 regarding Afghanistan. True or false?
Bin Laden being dead? Very likely true.
His henchmen and terror network still being a threat to the region and the world? Currently false, but working on it with variable degrees of persistence.
658 | yma o hyd Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:06:40am |
659 | Pianobuff Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:06:47am |
White House appears ready to drop 'public option'
WASHINGTON – Apparently ready to abandon the idea, President Barack Obama's health secretary said Sunday a government alternative to private health insurance is "not the essential element" of the administration's health care overhaul.
The White House indicated it could jettison the contentious public option and settle on insurance cooperatives as an acceptable alternative, a move embraced by some Republicans lawmakers who have strongly opposed the administration's approach so far.
Officials from both political parties reached across the aisle in an effort to find compromises on proposals they left behind when they returned to their districts for an August recess. Obama has been pressing for the government to run a health insurance organization to help cover the nation's almost 50 million uninsured.
Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said the White House would be open to co-ops instead of a government-run public option, a sign Democrats want a compromise so they can declare a victory on the must-win showdown.
"I think there will be a competitor to private insurers," she said. "That's really the essential part, is you don't turn over the whole new marketplace to private insurance companies and trust them to do the right thing. We need some choices, we need some competition."
Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., said co-ops might be a politically acceptable alternative as "a step away from the government takeover of the health care system" that the GOP has assailed.
Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., chairman of the Senate's budget committee, pushed the co-op model as an alternative, saying it has worked in other business models.
As proposed by Conrad, the co-ops would receive federal startup money, but then would operate independently of the government. They would have to maintain the same financial reserves that private companies are required to keep to handle unexpectedly high claims.
Republicans say a public option would have unfair advantages that would drive private insurers out of business. Critics say co-ops would not be genuine public options for health insurance.
Anyone have a feel for just how "public" (or not) these co-ops would be?
660 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:06:55am |
re: #647 sattv4u2
It's gonna get worse before it gets better
1st the banks
2nd the car companies
3rd health insuranceNEXT,,,COMING TO A CITY NEAR YOU SOON
WASHINGTON - The Obama administration, in a major shift on housing policy, is abandoning George W. Bush’s vision of creating an “ownership society’’ and instead plans to pump $4.25 billion of economic stimulus money into creating tens of thousands of federally subsidized rental units in American cities.
[Link: www.boston.com...]
Lovely.
661 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:06:59am |
re: #634 VegasRick
Just wait until ALL of his "programs" start getting shot down. We will see a meltdown of epic proportion.
Obama has been pampered from the time Grandma took over his care (You know old rfacist Toot , that he tossed off of the Sled)
She doted on him & sent him to the best prep school in Hawaii, Where by his own admission he was a "Stoned" poor student.
No problem, academic Scholarship to College in LA & then off to the Ivy league, onto Harvard Law Review President, submitting no articles.
Community Oraganizer , to the Illinois Senate & a stop for a cup of coffee in the U.S Senate while campaigning & being elected President without a whole lot of scrutiny.
He will not handle adversity well.
662 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:07:02am |
re: #651 swamprat
I don't think so. And it is justifiably a sore point.
Isn't there an on-going law suit against the U.S. about moneys owed to at least one tribe?
663 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:07:44am |
re: #653 albusteve
I don't see how than can improve themselves in that area...it's desolate and forbidding...they want the Black Hills back and I don't blame them...there is well over a hundred million in federal money in escrow in the bank...the Sioux won't touch it...if they do the spirit is broken
Huh?
664 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:08:17am |
re: #649 MandyManners
Has that ever been done?
There has always been Indians in the Bureau. Kevin Skenandore is the current head, but I don't know his background. Larry Echohawk is the current Assistant Secretary.
What can be done? You mean without government intervention? Probably very little.
665 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:08:33am |
666 | Pianobuff Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:08:34am |
re: #652 Last Mohican
There's a kernel of truth to this article, but it's basically just stupid, inflammatory propaganda.
Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS) basically results from one's immune system attacking one's own nerves. It's usually triggered by some kind of infection that revs up the immune system. In North America and Europe, by far the most common infection is Campylobacter jejuni, a bacterium that causes bad diarrhea. However, GBS can also be triggered by various medications and vaccinations. This is very rare. One study found that, over two seasons of flu vaccinations, the vaccine caused approximately 1.7 cases of GBS per million vaccinations. Another study found no increased risk at all.
The "Swine Flu Debacle of 1976" is the basis of the the letter described in this article. That year, about 40 million people received the vaccine, and 532 cases of vaccine-related GBS were detected. The CDC estimated that the risk of GBS from receiving the vaccine was about 1 in 1000, which was seven times greater than the risk to the general population. At least, these are the figures that I've read. The math doesn't seem to work out to me, but that's what I've read.
The 1976 "debacle" is often cited as an example of the dangers of vaccination, because the flu itself turned out to kill fewer people than the vaccine did. However, this year's swine flu vaccination has not been shown to be linked to an increased risk of GBS. The Health Protection Agency was merely suggesting to doctors that they be alert and keep track of the development of any complications, should they occur. It's pretty much standard practice whenever any new drug is released.
Thank you for the added info. I don't want my ears to be so plugged to news about vaccines that no input is allowed. Good post.
667 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:08:42am |
re: #657 laZardo
Bin Laden being dead? Very likely true.
His henchmen and terror network still being a threat to the region and the world? Currently false, but working on it with variable degrees of persistence.
Don't conflate Al-Qaeda with Afghanistan. Al-Qaeda are not based there anymore, following the campaign of 2001.
So the question still stand in my opinion.
668 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:08:50am |
re: #661 opnion
Obama has been pampered from the time Grandma took over his care (You know old rfacist Toot , that he tossed off of the Sled)
She doted on him & sent him to the best prep school in Hawaii, Where by his own admission he was a "Stoned" poor student.
No problem, academic Scholarship to College in LA & then off to the Ivy league, onto Harvard Law Review President, submitting no articles.
Community Oraganizer , to the Illinois Senate & a stop for a cup of coffee in the U.S Senate while campaigning & being elected President without a whole lot of scrutiny.
He will not handle adversity well.
Temper tantrums in 3...2...1.
669 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:09:34am |
re: #664 American Sabra
There has always been Indians in the Bureau. Kevin Skenandore is the current head, but I don't know his background. Larry Echohawk is the current Assistant Secretary.
What can be done? You mean without government intervention? Probably very little.
Maybe governmental but, also social and cultural.
670 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:10:17am |
I don't believe the BIA is very well respected among the tribes, although maybe TFK could elaborate more on that.
671 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:10:39am |
I'll be back. Time to reload the batteries for a short while (getting a cuppa and, if I can find any, biscuits)
673 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:10:51am |
re: #663 MandyManners
Huh?
they don't want the money for the Black Hills...it is their land by federal law...if they take the money they relinquish their rights to it and break their ancestoral spiritual bond ...it's mighty strong juju
674 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:10:59am |
Kathleen Sebilus just dropped an outrageous comment on CNN.
"We spend more that any other country on healthcare & we get outcomes of a developing country."
We actually have the best clinical outcomes in the world & if she doesn't know that she should inform herself.
675 | Sloppy Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:11:12am |
Re: reservations
Consider where reservations are sited. They tend to be in places like Nebraska, South Dakota and the desert Southwest. Out of sight, out of mind. I suspect that if one were in NYC or LA, the MFM would flock to it, turn its conditions into a Cause, and politicians would be goaded into at least trying to make humanitarian improvements.
676 | _RememberTonyC Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:11:21am |
re: #427 Irish Rose
Nice Tony, can I add you to my blogroll?
Thanks Irish Rose ... feel free to add me to your menu.
677 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:11:49am |
re: #673 albusteve
they don't want the money for the Black Hills...it is their land by federal law...if they take the money they relinquish their rights to it and break their ancestoral spiritual bond ...it's mighty strong juju
Well, that's on them.
678 | Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:12:12am |
re: #674 opnion
Kathleen Sebilus just dropped an outrageous comment on CNN.
"We spend more that any other country on healthcare & we get outcomes of a developing country."
We actually have the best clinical outcomes in the world & if she doesn't know that she should inform herself.
She is informed. She has been inform, by what ever or who ever, that the MSM must do what they can to promote Barry's soft-socialism plans.
679 | laZardo Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:12:22am |
re: #667 HAL2010
We could delete "the region" from the previous category seeing as how there are cells and "affiliated" groups all over the world though.
680 | yma o hyd Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:12:42am |
re: #640 HAL2010
Frankly, I do not believe it was a gaffe. It was far to calculated, he is too intelligent. Cameron is one strand of tory, Hannan another. Clearly there will be arguments and debates. But this is one opinion he should have spoken of either after the election, or even better, internally while discussing policy reviews.
Well - he says himself, in his blog, that his opinion is not new, and is know within the Tory party. He's written about it in the small book, 'The Plan', which he co-authored with Dominic Carswell.
So a gaffe it probably wasn't, I agree - on the other hand, he is very well known in the USA, ever since he took on Brown in front of the EU Parliament. Thus its no surprise to anyone that he'd be asked for his take on this issue.
At least this whole thing shows that there are independent thinkers in the Tory party, and that they are not 'herded' like in NuLab, where people have to be 'on message', or else!
681 | _RememberTonyC Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:12:46am |
re: #429 MandyManners
I love your vine!
Thanks Mandy ... You just gave me an idea ... I think I'll add a section on wine.
682 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:12:50am |
683 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:12:58am |
re: #678 Walter L. Newton
She is informed. She has been inform, by what ever or who ever, that the MSM must do what they can to promote Barry's soft-socialism plans.
Bingo!
684 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:13:11am |
re: #669 MandyManners
Maybe governmental but, also social and cultural.
I don't believe it's a cultural issue really. Any assimilation has already been done. Like I say, we're talking basic human needs. The question is how do you create jobs and provide good education on these reservations to enable them to help themselves? If the government doesn't intervene, I don't know how else to deal with it.
685 | Pianobuff Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:13:12am |
re: #674 opnion
Kathleen Sebilus just dropped an outrageous comment on CNN.
"We spend more that any other country on healthcare & we get outcomes of a developing country."
We actually have the best clinical outcomes in the world & if she doesn't know that she should inform herself.
Was she challenged on it? (I should know... but I'm asking anyway)
686 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:13:16am |
re: #668 VegasRick
Temper tantrums in 3...2...1.
Look for him & his minions to drop a deck of race cards.
687 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:13:20am |
re: #601 American Sabra
Reservations for the First Americans are almost all horrid places. And while albustve thinks Pine Ridge is the WORST PLACE for a reservation, he hasn't been to any of the Apache reservations in Arizona - I mean nothing there except cacti and sand - the good stuff (mostly silver and some gold) we took out of there over a hundred years ago. BUT, Reservations are legally special places: their own laws, police forces and courts (so long as they don't violtate the US Constitution and then in a VERY blatant way) and for the most part their own economy. Except for the very SIGNIFICANT difference of lack of violence against people off the Res, the First Americans frequently seem to me to be treated by the rest of us the same way that Arabs treat the Palestinians and at least the Palestianians have choices that don't involve murder, but choose to spurn those choices.
I don't know what the answer is to the problems that the First Americans face on Reservations; no one forces them to live on the Reservations and I would think they could maintain their cultures if they moved off the Reservations altogether.
688 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:13:52am |
re: #675 Sloppy
Re: reservations
Consider where reservations are sited. They tend to be in places like Nebraska, South Dakota and the desert Southwest. Out of sight, out of mind. I suspect that if one were in NYC or LA, the MFM would flock to it, turn its conditions into a Cause, and politicians would be goaded into at least trying to make humanitarian improvements.
NM reservations are homeground for Tribes...some for over a thousand years
689 | Gang of One Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:13:59am |
690 | kansas Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:14:02am |
re: #373 Pianobuff
Vaccine news is often linked to conspiracy theories. This one sounds like it might be different, though, and worth a read.
Swine flu jab link to killer nerve disease: Leaked letter reveals concern of neurologists over 25 deaths in AmericaAny doctors out there that may know whether there's any merit to this?
Not an MD doctor, but...the disease is Guillain Barre or GBS and one of the first things asked in a hospital when patient presents with ascending paralysis is if they have had a flu shot. In 1976 the swine flu program was stopped because of this. Anecdote..my wife had GBS in 2005. Thursday we had a conference with a doctor for an elective procedure and she put that on her entry form. The guy asked how she got GBS because he had it when he was 14 from a flu shot. They'll say it's very rare but it's not. Whether or not it's better to take the risk and have the immunization, I don't know. I do think that comparing current flu epidemics to the outbreak in 1918 is a bad analogy because...well it was 1918 even before penicillin.
691 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:14:11am |
693 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:14:35am |
re: #674 opnion
Kathleen Sebilus just dropped an outrageous comment on CNN.
"We spend more that any other country on healthcare & we get outcomes of a developing country."
We actually have the best clinical outcomes in the world & if she doesn't know that she should inform herself.
It chaps my hide when someone cites our infant mortality rate as being low because that statistic does not take into account all the preemies who spend weeks and months on machines in NICU and die anyway.
694 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:14:51am |
re: #675 Sloppy
Re: reservations
Consider where reservations are sited. They tend to be in places like Nebraska, South Dakota and the desert Southwest. Out of sight, out of mind. I suspect that if one were in NYC or LA, the MFM would flock to it, turn its conditions into a Cause, and politicians would be goaded into at least trying to make humanitarian improvements.
Yes, in fact, indigenous people have thrived a lot better in urban areas v. rural even without gaming.
695 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:15:42am |
re: #681 _RememberTonyC
Thanks Mandy ... You just gave me an idea ... I think I'll add a section on wine.
Sounds good.
696 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:16:17am |
re: #682 albusteve
the land belongs to them, and the feds know it
Has there been a court ruling on the issue?
697 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:16:29am |
I have resevations about this whole Indian thing.
///sorry
698 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:16:47am |
re: #678 Walter L. Newton
She is informed. She has been inform, by what ever or who ever, that the MSM must do what they can to promote Barry's soft-socialism plans.
Your correct, of course she knows better, she was the Commisioner of Insurance in Kansas
700 | kansas Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:16:56am |
PS, article I saw on the GBS swine flu shot correlation was from the UK.
701 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:16:58am |
re: #684 American Sabra
I don't believe it's a cultural issue really. Any assimilation has already been done. Like I say, we're talking basic human needs. The question is how do you create jobs and provide good education on these reservations to enable them to help themselves? If the government doesn't intervene, I don't know how else to deal with it.
How can the feds intervene if they have no power?
702 | Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:17:32am |
re: #632 Pianobuff
Well, two quick things.
1. Coracle is another professional scientist. He's a geologist and he is careful what he says.
2. Optomizer doubts that carbon stays in the atmosphere longer than any of the other GHGs like water vapor. In fact he dismisses it as a crazy claim.
He is dead wrong. In fact, the fact he says it only shows how divorced from actual data and reality he is on the issues. The accepted claim by IPCC and numerous others, is that CO2 lingers in the atmosphere for greater than century timescales. There are those in the community who feel that this is a lowball estimate.
[Link: www.nature.com...]
The bottom line is that CO2 lives up there for at least century timescales. This is very well known. Anyone who starts a "debate" by dismissing this fact, is comparable to someone starting a talk about sunlight scattering in the atmosphere by dismissing as crazy, the idea that the sky is blue.
The "deniers" are not skeptics. They really are out and out deniers. They are willing to deny anything that they don't like. On the other hand, you can reason with a skeptic.
My opinion on this is that the use of these threads is to try to clear up misinformation for the general lizard and give them honest resources to look at. However, there is no point in trying to debate the true believers. They do not debate. They only lie, misrepresent and refuse to look at facts.
703 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:17:39am |
re: #621 sattv4u2
You, you,...bubble burster you!
I had something yesterday BEFORE THAT but won't waste anyone's time sending 'em back there!
or something like that.
706 | Gang of One Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:17:53am |
re: #697 VegasRick
I have resevations about this whole Indian thing.
///sorry
*WHACK*
/Mandy Manners mode
707 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:18:24am |
re: #698 opnion
Your correct, of course she knows better, she was the Commisioner of Insurance in Kansas
The good thing about this whole debacle is the way these politicians are shitting all over themselves for a losing cause. I like it.
708 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:18:24am |
re: #691 VegasRick
Six. Deck. Shoe.
Rick, I can tell that you live in Veags. How are things in the Great Southwest today?
709 | Last Mohican Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:18:55am |
re: #690 kansas
I'm so sorry your wife had GBS. I hope she at least hasn't had any permanent lasting effects.
The 1976 Swine Flue vaccine was indeed linked to an increased risk of developing GBS. As I said above, the CDC estimated that risk to be 1 in 1000, which was seven times higher than the risk in the general population. However, the risk was lower or nonexistent for subsequent flu shots. A study in the 1990's estimated the increased risk to be 1.7 cases per million vaccinations. Another more recent study found no increased risk at all.
710 | jaunte Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:19:04am |
Bad deal:
Tim Giago:
Indian nations gave up millions of acres of land in exchange for the right to an education and adequate health care. These two provisions are a part of nearly every treaty signed between the United States of America and the Indian nations. It is not welfare the US is providing, but an obligation in fulfillment of treaty rights.[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
711 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:19:49am |
712 | Pianobuff Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:19:59am |
re: #700 kansas
PS, article I saw on the GBS swine flu shot correlation was from the UK.
Thanks. There's a lot of tabloid stuff I've read about vaccines, but since I'm not an MD it's hard for me to tell the difference. It sounded like there might be some level of credence to this one, which is why I put the question out there.re: #702 LudwigVanQuixote
Well, two quick things.
1. Coracle is another professional scientist. He's a geologist and he is careful what he says.
2. Optomizer doubts that carbon stays in the atmosphere longer than any of the other GHGs like water vapor. In fact he dismisses it as a crazy claim.
He is dead wrong. In fact, the fact he says it only shows how divorced from actual data and reality he is on the issues. The accepted claim by IPCC and numerous others, is that CO2 lingers in the atmosphere for greater than century timescales. There are those in the community who feel that this is a lowball estimate.
[Link: www.nature.com...]
The bottom line is that CO2 lives up there for at least century timescales. This is very well known. Anyone who starts a "debate" by dismissing this fact, is comparable to someone starting a talk about sunlight scattering in the atmosphere by dismissing as crazy, the idea that the sky is blue.
The "deniers" are not skeptics. They really are out and out deniers. They are willing to deny anything that they don't like. On the other hand, you can reason with a skeptic.
My opinion on this is that the use of these threads is to try to clear up misinformation for the general lizard and give them honest resources to look at. However, there is no point in trying to debate the true believers. They do not debate. They only lie, misrepresent and refuse to look at facts.
I was thinking more of Pythagoras's comments where it looked like Pyth and Coracle were finding some common ground...a little bit anyway.
713 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:20:28am |
re: #687 realwest
Reservations for the First Americans are almost all horrid places. And while albustve thinks Pine Ridge is the WORST PLACE for a reservation, he hasn't been to any of the Apache reservations in Arizona - I mean nothing there except cacti and sand - the good stuff (mostly silver and some gold) we took out of there over a hundred years ago. BUT, Reservations are legally special places: their own laws, police forces and courts (so long as they don't violtate the US Constitution and then in a VERY blatant way) and for the most part their own economy. Except for the very SIGNIFICANT difference of lack of violence against people off the Res, the First Americans frequently seem to me to be treated by the rest of us the same way that Arabs treat the Palestinians and at least the Palestianians have choices that don't involve murder, but choose to spurn those choices.
I don't know what the answer is to the problems that the First Americans face on Reservations; no one forces them to live on the Reservations and I would think they could maintain their cultures if they moved off the Reservations altogether.
I have visited several reservations in Arizona...the only one in the desert that I know of is the vast Pima Rez south of Phoenix...Ft Apache and San Carlos are both well watered from the white river watershed, and some mighty pretty country
714 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:20:32am |
715 | MandyManners Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:20:38am |
re: #692 swamprat
No idea.
Same here. What I know about the issue could fit into a fairy's bra cup with room to spare.
716 | Pianobuff Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:20:50am |
712 has two responses ... one for LVQ and one for Kansas. Accidentally came out that way, of course.
717 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:20:59am |
718 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:21:10am |
re: #647 sattv4u2
But of course! Everyone knows that the great American Dream is to Rent Your Own Home!
/EXTREMELY HEAVY.
719 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:21:19am |
re: #687 realwest
...I don't know what the answer is to the problems that the First Americans face on Reservations; no one forces them to live on the Reservations and I would think they could maintain their cultures if they moved off the Reservations altogether.
The way I see it, they are absolutely forced to leave the reservation. They simple can't live there. Considering how much attention we give to others, they should be allowed the choice to live with their own people and still thrive and many simply can't do it.
It's like a silent genocide. If they live outside the rez, they lose their culture. Same with Jews. If you don't live or participate with your people, you lose the traditions.
721 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:22:16am |
re: #708 opnion
Rick, I can tell that you live in Veags. How are things in the Great Southwest today?
AWESOME. Around 100 today and all of next week. I love this new global warming.
722 | Gang of One Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:22:27am |
723 | Gang of One Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:23:07am |
re: #715 MandyManners
Same here. What I know about the issue could fit into a fairy's bra cup with room to spare.
I am so stealing that. The GF will bust a gut when she hears it!
725 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:23:15am |
re: #679 laZardo
Well, that is my point. Afghanistan is no longer a safe haven for Al-Qaeda. I would argue that Pakistan has therefore become far more of a threat (or rather, elements within its borders).
So, why are we in Afghanistan?
If we are there to build democracy, surely we must accept that we have to be there for the next 40 years.
726 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:23:20am |
re: #707 VegasRick
The good thing about this whole debacle is the way these politicians are shitting all over themselves for a losing cause. I like it.
This is a defining moment for the Obama Presidency.
They will cut their losses & take out the end of life counseling & the public option just to pass something. They will call it victory, but the truth will be pretty obvious.
His aura of invincability will be shatterd & the mid-term election could be ugly for BHO & he will not be odds on for a 2nd term.
Good!
727 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:23:31am |
re: #652 Last Mohican
Hey Last Mohican - thank you for that comment!
728 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:23:33am |
re: #659 Pianobuff
White House appears ready to drop 'public option'
Anyone have a feel for just how "public" (or not) these co-ops would be?
So, they're getting rid of the "public option" by...keeping it, and calling it something else.
If the government is running these companies, it's still the public option. I see no attempt to let the private sector manage coverage. Just an attempt to put lipstick on the pig, sneak it in through the back door and pass it off as a high-class hooker during the drunken celebrations over "victory" in the wake of the Dems "abandonment of the public option.
730 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:24:16am |
re: #726 opnion
This is a defining moment for the Obama Presidency.
They will cut their losses & take out the end of life counseling & the public option just to pass something. They will call it victory, but the truth will be pretty obvious.
His aura of invincability will be shatterd & the mid-term election could be ugly for BHO & he will not be odds on for a 2nd term.
Good!Yep!
731 | laZardo Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:24:34am |
re: #725 HAL2010
That and to keep them from getting back in? Probably a "pincer" tactic with the Pakistanis.
732 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:24:37am |
re: #680 yma o hyd
Well - he says himself, in his blog, that his opinion is not new, and is know within the Tory party. He's written about it in the small book, 'The Plan', which he co-authored with Dominic Carswell.
So a gaffe it probably wasn't, I agree - on the other hand, he is very well known in the USA, ever since he took on Brown in front of the EU Parliament. Thus its no surprise to anyone that he'd be asked for his take on this issue.
At least this whole thing shows that there are independent thinkers in the Tory party, and that they are not 'herded' like in NuLab, where people have to be 'on message', or else!
Agreed. And he is an MEP. Had he been an MP it would have been very different.
733 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:25:27am |
re: #694 American Sabra
Yes, in fact, indigenous people have thrived a lot better in urban areas v. rural even without gaming.
And thats because they assimilated to the urban setting as ooposed to "keeping the old ways" in their rural/ tribal reservation ones. Diametrically opposed to what you stated in #684
Any assimilation has already been done
No, it hasn't
734 | kansas Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:25:27am |
re: #709 Last Mohican
I'm so sorry your wife had GBS. I hope she at least hasn't had any permanent lasting effects.
The 1976 Swine Flue vaccine was indeed linked to an increased risk of developing GBS. As I said above, the CDC estimated that risk to be 1 in 1000, which was seven times higher than the risk in the general population. However, the risk was lower or nonexistent for subsequent flu shots. A study in the 1990's estimated the increased risk to be 1.7 cases per million vaccinations. Another more recent study found no increased risk at all.
Thanks so much. She has had pretty much a full recovery. Her stamina never did return to normal and we think there are some coordination issues as she has had couple of falls here and there. You know, seeing her patellar reflex being absent and then returning made our neurologist cry actually. Anyway, her issue was not related to a flu shot. In the days prior she had received a couple of insect bites, which they said could not have been related, a forehead botox shot, which they said could not be related, and had undergone a routine colonoscopy. I'm going with the camphylobacter from the colonoscopy but they never knew. At the worst of hers she was paralyzed from the waist down, was devoloping difficulty breathing and swallowing, and had facial paralysis. IGB and plasmaphoresis seemed halt the progression and recovery ensued. It was 2 weeks in critical care, 2 months on a walker, 2 months on a cane and then slowly back to normal. It was tough on her.
735 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:25:40am |
re: #729 laZardo
GrayJack?
/the original name was deemed racist
"Queen of spades" has always been a topic of conversation in Vegas.
736 | Pianobuff Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:25:59am |
re: #728 SixDegrees
So, they're getting rid of the "public option" by...keeping it, and calling it something else.
If the government is running these companies, it's still the public option. I see no attempt to let the private sector manage coverage. Just an attempt to put lipstick on the pig, sneak it in through the back door and pass it off as a high-class hooker during the drunken celebrations over "victory" in the wake of the Dems "abandonment of the public option.
They might be able to move a small number of R senators over to their side with this, no?
737 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:26:11am |
re: #721 VegasRick
AWESOME. Around 100 today and all of next week. I love this new global warming.
100 degrees! Call Al Gore, we're doomed. Vegas has never been 100 degrees before, ever! Arrest Bush.
738 | Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:26:28am |
re: #712 Pianobuff
As to tipping points, without turning this into a mathematics lecture - which is very difficult to do without an equation editor anyway, this is a good summary of the use of the word and what we are talking about from realclimate.
[Link: www.realclimate.org...]
739 | Gang of One Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:26:29am |
re: #719 American Sabra
The way I see it, they are absolutely forced to leave the reservation. They simple can't live there. Considering how much attention we give to others, they should be allowed the choice to live with their own people and still thrive and many simply can't do it.
It's like a silent genocide. If they live outside the rez, they lose their culture. Same with Jews. If you don't live or participate with your people, you lose the traditions.
Yes and no, Sabra. Jews have lived outside of Israel/Canaan/Judea for millenia, but they have not lost their identity -- specifically because they have kept the Jewish community/soul/spirit together, as you say. Is this not possible for First Americans outside of a reservation?
740 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:26:36am |
741 | Macker Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:27:01am |
re: #707 VegasRick
The good thing about this whole debacle is the way these politicians are shitting all over themselves for a losing cause. I like it.
Which reminds me of a certain alternate reality novel by a certain world leader who emigrated to the United States after the Great War and became...and artist and writer! He specifically spelled out what the enemies of the novel's protagonist did when they battled the forces of Helder.
742 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:27:05am |
re: #731 laZardo
Sure. But if he play a bit of realpolitik for a while, would it not be far cheaper simply to bomb facilities,camps and known leaders as they arise?
This is what we arre currently doing in Pakistan.
744 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:29:10am |
re: #733 sattv4u2
And thats because they assimilated to the urban setting as ooposed to "keeping the old ways" in their rural/ tribal reservation ones. Diametrically opposed to what you stated in #684
Any assimilation has already been done
No, it hasn't
each tribe has to be judged separately...obviously the worst off are the tribes of the central plains that thrived on the buffalo...the federal policy toward them was extermination...the cultures of NM are completely different and it is much easier to preserve customs and languages
745 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:29:14am |
746 | avanti Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:29:37am |
re: #672 taxfreekiller
See post 650.
Key word, "non profit".
They use shell games still.
Like Blue Cross/Blue Shield. (non profit)
747 | Last Mohican Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:29:58am |
re: #734 kansas
I guess you may never know for sure what caused it. That must have been really hard on her, and you.
748 | laZardo Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:30:01am |
re: #742 HAL2010
It's probably an internal budgeting problem then...
750 | Gang of One Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:30:22am |
re: #739 Gang of One
Yes and no, Sabra. Jews have lived outside of Israel/Canaan/Judea for millenia, but they have not lost their identity -- specifically because they have kept the Jewish community/soul/spirit together, as you say. Is this not possible for First Americans outside of a reservation?
I wanted to also mention that a fair number of Jews, wishing to assimilate [especially in the New World] have left the more rigorous traditions of Judaism [kashrut, shomer shabbat, observing mitzot] behind.
751 | Macker Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:30:47am |
re: #744 albusteve
each tribe has to be judged separately...obviously the worst off are the tribes of the central plains that thrived on the buffalo...the federal policy toward them was extermination...the cultures of NM are completely different and it is much easier to preserve customs and languages
752 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:31:11am |
re: #674 opnion
Kathleen Sebilus just dropped an outrageous comment on CNN.
"We spend more that any other country on healthcare & we get outcomes of a developing country."
We actually have the best clinical outcomes in the world & if she doesn't know that she should inform herself.
This is an increasingly popular lie being spread by supporters of nationalized health care. But attempting to conflate the amount of money spent on medical care with outcomes in this way is ludicrous. The total amount of health care dollars being used includes every tummy tuck, liposuction, botox injection, bood job, dick extension, tinted contact lens prescription, teeth whitening procedure, viagra prescription and a thousand other non-essential elective procedures and prescriptions. This is an attempt to portray medicine as a zero sum game in which the rich suck up all the resources and the poor get nothing, which in fact the amount spent on actual, essential health care is only a fraction of this total.
A nationalized system will do absolutely nothing to change this; those with the funds will still spend them on non-critical care like this. Unless Sebelius is trying to claim that procedures like these are somehow "essential" enough to be mandatory for everyone, she's drawing a completely false analogy.
Or, to put it more bluntly, she's full of shit up to her eyebrows.
753 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:32:29am |
re: #736 Pianobuff
They might be able to move a small number of R senators over to their side with this, no?
It's possible, if the Republicans aren't paying any attention.
Like I said upthread, we need to be very wary of winning battles like this, and losing the war in the end.
754 | kansas Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:32:34am |
re: #752 SixDegrees
This is an increasingly popular lie being spread by supporters of nationalized health care. But attempting to conflate the amount of money spent on medical care with outcomes in this way is ludicrous. The total amount of health care dollars being used includes every tummy tuck, liposuction, botox injection, bood job, dick extension, tinted contact lens prescription, teeth whitening procedure, viagra prescription and a thousand other non-essential elective procedures and prescriptions. This is an attempt to portray medicine as a zero sum game in which the rich suck up all the resources and the poor get nothing, which in fact the amount spent on actual, essential health care is only a fraction of this total.
A nationalized system will do absolutely nothing to change this; those with the funds will still spend them on non-critical care like this. Unless Sebelius is trying to claim that procedures like these are somehow "essential" enough to be mandatory for everyone, she's drawing a completely false analogy.
Or, to put it more bluntly, she's full of shit up to her eyebrows.
Seems like it's necessary to lie to get this passed, and to lie to get it defeated. Getting more depressing by the day.
755 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:32:54am |
re: #733 sattv4u2
And thats because they assimilated to the urban setting as ooposed to "keeping the old ways" in their rural/ tribal reservation ones. Diametrically opposed to what you stated in #684
Any assimilation has already been done
No, it hasn't
What I meant is, if I can explain this properly, that they are already assimilated in the sense that they are a part of "modern" society. It doesn't mean that they can't maintain their own language or spirituality. Jews are also assimilated into society and have kept their traditions simultaneously.
756 | Pianobuff Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:33:01am |
re: #752 SixDegrees
This is an increasingly popular lie being spread by supporters of nationalized health care. But attempting to conflate the amount of money spent on medical care with outcomes in this way is ludicrous. The total amount of health care dollars being used includes every tummy tuck, liposuction, botox injection, bood job, dick extension, tinted contact lens prescription, teeth whitening procedure, viagra prescription and a thousand other non-essential elective procedures and prescriptions. This is an attempt to portray medicine as a zero sum game in which the rich suck up all the resources and the poor get nothing, which in fact the amount spent on actual, essential health care is only a fraction of this total.
A nationalized system will do absolutely nothing to change this; those with the funds will still spend them on non-critical care like this. Unless Sebelius is trying to claim that procedures like these are somehow "essential" enough to be mandatory for everyone, she's drawing a completely false analogy.
Or, to put it more bluntly, she's full of shit up to her eyebrows.
Would it be out of line to call this "fearmongering"?
757 | Gang of One Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:33:09am |
Gotta go and be productive. Hope to see you all later.
758 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:33:47am |
Obama once again used the Post Office vis a Vis Fed EX & UPS as an example of how the public sector has not driven out private enterprise.
This was at his stacked Town Hall yesterday.
How in the world can the smartest man in the world say this?
The post office bleeds red ink & has a monopoly on first class mail.
If the private sector could deliver first class there would be no need for the post office public option, so ok let's create an inefficient health insurance public option.
It will turn into a public jobs program & the people like the ones that work for the post office will decide if your care is approved.
759 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:34:16am |
re: #739 Gang of One
Yes and no, Sabra. Jews have lived outside of Israel/Canaan/Judea for millenia, but they have not lost their identity -- specifically because they have kept the Jewish community/soul/spirit together, as you say. Is this not possible for First Americans outside of a reservation?
I would say because they have made the effort to remain with each other, but I don't think that's happened with the N.A.
760 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:34:57am |
re: #744 albusteve
each tribe has to be judged separately...obviously the worst off are the tribes of the central plains that thrived on the buffalo...the federal policy toward them was extermination...the cultures of NM are completely different and it is much easier to preserve customs and languages
Corrct. Customs and languages can be preserved even IF you assimilate. Look at any ethnic/ religious group here in the states
761 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:36:22am |
re: #756 Pianobuff
Would it be out of line to call this "fearmongering"?
It's beyond fearmongering. It's flat-out lying. Per capita spending has no relation to outcomes, and medicine is not the zero-sum game being portrayed in this senseless comparison anyway.
762 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:36:28am |
re: #739 Gang of One
Yes and no, Sabra. Jews have lived outside of Israel/Canaan/Judea for millenia, but they have not lost their identity -- specifically because they have kept the Jewish community/soul/spirit together, as you say. Is this not possible for First Americans outside of a reservation?
I would also say that if you go off the rez, you're moving away from your people, that being the grandparents, the uncles and aunts, the family that maintain your culture. That goes far to rob them of their history and ability to pass it along.
763 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:37:55am |
re: #745 VegasRick
Even Obama think's that Fed Ex is swell. Let them compete with UPS & others for First Class mail delivery.
764 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:38:30am |
re: #760 sattv4u2
Corrct. Customs and languages can be preserved even IF you assimilate. Look at any ethnic/ religious group here in the states
yes, especially if the pride is handed down through the children, but they have to spend considerable time around the elders...mant tribal histories are not written but spoken...whatever it is one of those things that seems so have easy solutions but really the issues can be very complex...not all Indians think or believe the same way about things
765 | Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:38:36am |
re: #728 SixDegrees
So, they're getting rid of the "public option" by...keeping it, and calling it something else.
No, the co-op is a public exchange so individuals can buy health insurance across state lines and have similar bargaining power as large companies. It will be a good thing for individuals and small businesses. I expect the right to fight against it tooth and nail.
766 | zombie Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:40:13am |
Looks like th Democrats have cracked, and the Health Care Bill is going to go down in flames:
White House appears ready to drop 'public option'
President Barack Obama's administration signaled on Sunday it is ready to abandon the idea of giving Americans the option of government-run health insurance as part of his ambitious health care proposal.Facing mounting opposition to the overhaul, administration officials left open the chance for a compromise with Republicans that would include health insurance cooperatives. Such a concession is likely to enrage his liberal supporters but could deliver Obama a much-needed win on a top domestic priority opposed by GOP lawmakers.
Without the "public option," then the bill becomes basically semi-meaningless, a minor fix.
I see this as a victory for the Republicans. The Democrats will back down and instead offer up a bill that creates a handful of nonprofit insurance companies, which consumers can take or leave. But I suspect the nonprofits will not be able to stay afloat financially, and fairly soon will shut their doors.
767 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:40:16am |
re: #762 American Sabra
I would also say that if you go off the rez, you're moving away from your people, that being the grandparents, the uncles and aunts, the family that maintain your culture. That goes far to rob them of their history and ability to pass it along.
please. My grandmother moved away from her "people, that being the grandparents, the uncles and aunts, the family " from Italy to Boston when she was 16. She kept her cultural heritage WHILE assimilating to her new home,, ALONE
Go to any large metropolis. There are still Italian sections (little Italies), German sections, Chinese cestions, etc ALL holding their cultural identity while at the same time keeping modern
768 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:40:19am |
re: #710 jaunte
Good afternoon juante! Did you know that the U.S. Government has an incredible record when it comes to the treaties we've signed with the First Americans*
We have broken EVERY SINGLE TREATY WE'VE EVER SIGNED with a First American Tribe.
Indeed, we are - technically speaking only -still at war with the Seminole Nation, as they refused to surrender and sign a peace treaty, based upon what their related tribes advised them about white men signing pieces of paper and then ignorning what they signed.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
*Note, I use the term First Americans because for a looong time the word "Indian" was considered racist or somesuch and some academic types led the charge to call them "Native Americans" but of course they weren't. They migrated here from Asia -making them perhaps the first immigrants, but their children were, by all accounts, the first people born in North America, hence the term "First Americans".
769 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:40:53am |
re: #752 SixDegrees
You got it . If Sebelius is looking for a return on investment, she should look at public education. We spend more than any nation in the world & nobody claims the the educational outcomes are stellar.
770 | kansas Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:41:00am |
re: #765 Killgore Trout
No, the co-op is a public exchange so individuals can buy health insurance across state lines and have similar bargaining power as large companies. It will be a good thing for individuals and small businesses. I expect the right to fight against it tooth and nail.
Why would the right fight that? You could buy BCBS from Kansas, and maybe Geico would sell on the web. Combine that with some tort reform, and maybe some increased medicaid for folks and that might fly.
771 | Pianobuff Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:42:15am |
re: #765 Killgore Trout
No, the co-op is a public exchange so individuals can buy health insurance across state lines and have similar bargaining power as large companies. It will be a good thing for individuals and small businesses. I expect the right to fight against it tooth and nail.
Is there any actual legislation drafted that defines what the co-op is?
772 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:42:29am |
re: #765 Killgore Trout
No, the co-op is a public exchange so individuals can buy health insurance across state lines and have similar bargaining power as large companies. It will be a good thing for individuals and small businesses. I expect the right to fight against it tooth and nail.
Not according to the article:
As proposed by Conrad, the co-ops would receive federal startup money, but then would operate independently of the government. They would have to maintain the same financial reserves that private companies are required to keep to handle unexpectedly high claims.
It's got "subsidized by the Federal Government" stamped all over it. Why set up ANY "startups" at all if you're jettisoning the public option?
Same shit, different day.
773 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:44:16am |
re: #767 sattv4u2
please. My grandmother moved away from her "people, that being the grandparents, the uncles and aunts, the family " from Italy to Boston when she was 16. She kept her cultural heritage WHILE assimilating to her new home,, ALONE
Go to any large metropolis. There are still Italian sections (little Italies), German sections, Chinese cestions, etc ALL holding their cultural identity while at the same time keeping modern
Yes, mine too, but these immigrants had people to take them in. My family who managed to escape from Europe in both WWI and WWII had cousins here. Where are the N.A. families outside the reservation? There are none and without those families they risk losing their heritage.
774 | Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:44:46am |
re: #770 kansas
Why would the right fight that? You could buy BCBS from Kansas, and maybe Geico would sell on the web. Combine that with some tort reform, and maybe some increased medicaid for folks and that might fly.
Because they'll mindlessly oppose anything and everything Obama does. The 'death panel" thing never existed but they demanded end of life planing be removed from the bill anyways. It accomplished nothing except opposing healthcare reform, which is what this is really about.
775 | zombie Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:45:31am |
re: #765 Killgore Trout
No, the co-op is a public exchange so individuals can buy health insurance across state lines and have similar bargaining power as large companies. It will be a good thing for individuals and small businesses. I expect the right to fight against it tooth and nail.
No, in the article I linked to, the Republicans said they'll probably support the co-op option:
Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., said Obama's team is making a political calculation and embracing the co-op alternative as "a step away from the government takeover of the health care system" that the GOP has pummeled."I don't know if it will do everything people want, but we ought to look at it. I think it's a far cry from the original proposals," he said.
776 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:45:33am |
re: #746 avanti
Like Blue Cross/Blue Shield. (non profit)
Avanti, some of the Blue Cross plans are a little misleading when they refer to themselves as non-profit. Some plans ., Like Illinois were forced to reorganize as Mutual companies.
They are technically owned by policy holders, but they earn lots of profit especially on their networks.
777 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:47:31am |
re: #725 HAL2010
I think we are in Afghanistan for two reasons: the first is that almost immediatlely after we leave, the Taliban will resume control of the country, imposing yet again the harshest Sharia government in the world and the second is that the Taliban controlled country of Afghanistan will ONCE AGAIN be used by Al-Q to recruit, train, arm and plan attacks against the West, especially the United States.
Folks like to blast George W. Bush for a lot of things, many of which I agree with but he got one thing - and a VERY IMPORTANT thing right: if we can keep Al-Quaeda on the run, they will lack the resources and time in a safe place, to plot, plan and launch the attacks against us as they did on 9/11.
778 | kansas Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:47:50am |
re: #774 Killgore Trout
Because they'll mindlessly oppose anything and everything Obama does. The 'death panel" thing never existed but they demanded end of life planing be removed from the bill anyways. It accomplished nothing except opposing healthcare reform, which is what this is really about.
Well after watching Pelosi and Reid mindlessly oppose everything Bush did I suppose we couldn't expect any better now.
779 | Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:47:51am |
Update: Bollywood star detained by US security causes Islamist seething...
Muslims stage protest against Salman Khan’s objectionable comment in Mumbai
Reacting to the detention of Shahrukh Khan at Newark International Airport in USA, Salman Khan on Saturday said: “Just because of few Muslims, billions of the community members face problems, which is not right,” after playing a celebrity football match in Mumbai on Saturday.
The reaction didn’t go down well with a section of community, as they reached Shahrukh’s house as to show solidarity with him and to express anger against Salman’s comment.
Protesters raised slogans against Salman and were planning a protest march from Shahrukh’s house to Salman’s house
780 | Desert Dog Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:48:23am |
Words of wisdom from a northern neighbor:
George Jonas: Beware the eggheads, not the skinheads
If you live long enough, you see a lot, and after you've seen a lot, you learn to tell things that worry you from things that merely make you unhappy. While I'm unhappy about skinheads in Eastern Europe planning a march to commemorate the anniversary of Rudolf Hess's death, what worries me is eggheads on the eastern seaboard of America calling on Israel to segregate Jerusalem.
It's nuclear power-seeking Iran being run by Holocaust-denying Mahmoud Ahmajinedad that worries me, not skinheads. I also worry about former U.S. president Bill Clinton being photographed sitting stone-faced in a small chair next to North Korean Leader Kim Jong-il.
781 | yochanan Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:48:29am |
[Link: www.hulu.com...]
this is what SNL does now that it doesn't have the other kind of BUSH to make fun of.
782 | Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:48:39am |
re: #775 zombie
No, in the article I linked to, the Republicans said they'll probably support the co-op option:
I don't know if the rapid and poorly informed Tea Party base will allow it. We'll see.
783 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:48:41am |
re: #774 Killgore Trout
Because they'll mindlessly oppose anything and everything Obama does.
You really are a piece of work KT.
784 | Lincolntf Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:48:45am |
Hi all.
I'm looking forward to a nice afternoon of watching Tiger trying to snag a Major in his last chance for the year. Anyone else with "couch potato" in their near future should tune in.
(Oh, and if some guy I've never heard of named Y.E. Yang beats Tiger, I'll be not pleased.)
785 | zombie Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:48:52am |
re: #774 Killgore Trout
Because they'll mindlessly oppose anything and everything Obama does. The 'death panel" thing never existed but they demanded end of life planing be removed from the bill anyways. It accomplished nothing except opposing healthcare reform, which is what this is really about.
I think you're wrong on this. I think that the co-op option is MUCH much less noxious, and doesn't count as "socialized medicine," so there will be no real motivation to oppose it.
The Republicans want to be seen as helping to pass some kind of reform bill too - -they don't want to be perceived as obstructionists.
But the key is: Nonprofits rarely can compete with for-profit companies. The govt will fund the startup cash for the nonprofit insurance companies, but after that they'll be expected to be self-supporting. And within just a few years, I predict they'll mostly go belly-up.
786 | Coracle Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:48:58am |
re: #778 kansas
Well after watching Pelosi and Reid mindlessly oppose everything Bush did I suppose we couldn't expect any better now.
Old stupidity doesn't justify new.
787 | FrogMarch Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:49:10am |
re: #766 zombie
Looks like th Democrats have cracked, and the Health Care Bill is going to go down in flames:
White House appears ready to drop 'public option'
Without the "public option," then the bill becomes basically semi-meaningless, a minor fix.
I see this as a victory for the Republicans. The Democrats will back down and instead offer up a bill that creates a handful of nonprofit insurance companies, which consumers can take or leave. But I suspect the nonprofits will not be able to stay afloat financially, and fairly soon will shut their doors.
I hope you are right. I've opposed government run health care/single payer for years. For me it has nothing to do with Obama. Any progressive president, including Hillary, would be pushing this. I'd still be against it, on principle.
The Democrats will take a small victory if any of the proposals open the door for a future "public option". I wouldn't put it past them to leave some stealth destruction in the bill.
788 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:49:11am |
re: #773 American Sabra
Yes, mine too, but these immigrants had people to take them in. My family who managed to escape from Europe in both WWI and WWII had cousins here. Where are the N.A. families outside the reservation? There are none and without those families they risk losing their heritage.
The 1st ones didn't! At some point in time, the 1st NA had to venture off the reservation, just as the 1st Italian/ German/ Irish/ etc did
789 | Desert Dog Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:49:15am |
re: #778 kansas
Well after watching Pelosi and Reid mindlessly oppose everything Bush did I suppose we couldn't expect any better now.
That's participating in democratic debate. Opposing Obama is pretty darn close treason and definitely a negative
790 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:50:02am |
re: #782 Killgore Trout
I don't know if the rapid and poorly informed Tea Party base will allow it. We'll see.
they're FAST !?!?!?
791 | Sharmuta Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:50:06am |
re: #779 Killgore Trout
Update: Bollywood star detained by US security causes Islamist seething...
Muslims stage protest against Salman Khan’s objectionable comment in Mumbai
He suggested most muslims are peaceful. Stone the heretic!
792 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:50:24am |
re: #774 Killgore Trout
Because they'll mindlessly oppose anything and everything Obama does. The 'death panel" thing never existed but they demanded end of life planing be removed from the bill anyways. It accomplished nothing except opposing healthcare reform, which is what this is really about.
KT , will there be efficacy panels such as the State of Oregon has?
They do ration healthcare resources & some people simply lose.
793 | J.S. Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:51:07am |
re: #780 Desert Dog
I read that article by George Jonas. I'm in complete agreement with Jonas.
794 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:51:40am |
re: #780 Desert Dog
Words of wisdom from a northern neighbor:
George Jonas: Beware the eggheads, not the skinheads
If you live long enough, you see a lot, and after you've seen a lot, you learn to tell things that worry you from things that merely make you unhappy. While I'm unhappy about skinheads in Eastern Europe planning a march to commemorate the anniversary of Rudolf Hess's death, what worries me is eggheads on the eastern seaboard of America calling on Israel to segregate Jerusalem.It's nuclear power-seeking Iran being run by Holocaust-denying Mahmoud Ahmajinedad that worries me, not skinheads. I also worry about former U.S. president Bill Clinton being photographed sitting stone-faced in a small chair next to North Korean Leader Kim Jong-il.
I'd beware of both groups.
795 | SteveC Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:52:25am |
Ugh... got a bug. Dull headache, slight fever, frequent flyer miles on Toilet Airlines. :(
Hope the rest of you are doing well.
797 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:53:05am |
re: #782 Killgore Trout
I don't know if the rapid and poorly informed Tea Party base will allow it. We'll see.
BEWARE THE TEA PARTIERS!
798 | yochanan Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:53:22am |
i want a woomba i wonder if they could have made one for males? and what about gay males?
[Link: www.hulu.com...]
his is what SNL does now that it doesn't have the other kind of BUSH to make fun of.
799 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:53:25am |
re: #785 zombie
I think you're wrong on this. I think that the co-op option is MUCH much less noxious, and doesn't count as "socialized medicine," so there will be no real motivation to oppose it.
The Republicans want to be seen as helping to pass some kind of reform bill too - -they don't want to be perceived as obstructionists.
But the key is: Nonprofits rarely can compete with for-profit companies. The govt will fund the startup cash for the nonprofit insurance companies, but after that they'll be expected to be self-supporting. And within just a few years, I predict they'll mostly go belly-up.
Or, a sudden necessity to continue and even expand government funding will be concocted.
800 | Pianobuff Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:53:49am |
re: #782 Killgore Trout
I don't know if the rapid and poorly informed Tea Party base will allow it. We'll see.
Last I looked D's have a supermajority. Did I miss something?
801 | FrogMarch Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:54:16am |
re: #766 zombie
Looks like th Democrats have cracked, and the Health Care Bill is going to go down in flames:
Remember this quote, repeated several times by Obama:
“I won’t sign a bill that adds to the national debt or the deficit.”
Maybe Obama is wising up to the fact that this is impossible? Or Obama is wising up to the fact that voters are wising up to the fact.
802 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:54:19am |
re: #800 Pianobuff
Last I looked D's have a supermajority. Did I miss something?
Yeah, look over there.
803 | kansas Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:54:24am |
re: #786 Coracle
Old stupidity doesn't justify new.
Apparently Pelosi is not signed on to that paradigm, what with suddenly being opposed to vociferous protests.
804 | Sharmuta Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:54:30am |
Killgore:
City police plan for neo-Nazi meeting
Greensboro police are preparing for the possibility that a meeting of the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement could be held in the city later this month.
The NSM, a group which describes itself as “defending the rights of white people everywhere,” is planning its Southeast/Mid-Atlantic Regional meeting on Aug. 29, according to the group’s Web site.
However, an exact location for the meeting has not been announced. Greensboro police are acting on intelligence that the event could occur her
e.
805 | jaunte Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:54:40am |
Some interesting factoids about Blue Cross - Blue shield:
The Blue Cross Blue Shield Association (BCBSA) is a federation of 39 United States health insurance companies. Combined, they directly or indirectly sell some form of insurance to over 100 million Americans.Many plans are administered by not-for-profit organizations, while others are for-profit companies. (Though all Blue Cross Blue Shield plans must pay Federal income tax under the Tax Reform Act of 1986, some plans are still considered not-for-profit at the state level.) The 14-state WellPoint is the largest Blue Cross Blue Shield member, and is a publicly traded company. Other multi-state organizations include CareFirst in the Mid-Atlantic and The Regence Group in the Pacific Northwest. The largest non-investor owned member is Health Care Service Corporation (HCSC), which operates four Blue Cross and Blue Shield Plans in the Midwest and Southwest.
In the past Blue Cross Blue Shield has been successfully sued and fined for denying due medical treatments to their customers and underpaying doctors.[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
806 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:54:42am |
808 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:54:53am |
re: #775 zombie
Good afternoon zombie! Hey c'mon that's not fair - confusing him with facts like that!
809 | kansas Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:54:59am |
re: #800 Pianobuff
Last I looked D's have a supermajority. Did I miss something?
Yeah, Rush Limbaugh./
810 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:55:03am |
re: #800 Pianobuff
Last I looked D's have a supermajority. Did I miss something?
They are ascaired to use it. Da teapartiers are gunna git em!
811 | yochanan Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:55:14am |
re: #794 SixDegrees
the islamists are committing mass murder on a global scale the skins are mostly just hemoridal tissue on the worlds ass holes.
812 | zombie Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:56:05am |
re: #799 SixDegrees
Or, a sudden necessity to continue and even expand government funding will be concocted.
Possibly. But then the same argument will start up again. We will have simply delayed the showdown.
813 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:56:08am |
re: #805 jaunte
Some interesting factoids about Blue Cross - Blue shield:
And our President was unaware of this.
814 | Desert Dog Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:56:13am |
re: #782 Killgore Trout
I don't know if the rapid and poorly informed Tea Party base will allow it. We'll see.
That is funny since many of the blocks to actual reform usually come from the left. Your painting the right with broad strokes get old sometimes, Killgore. We are not evil, stupid or incapable of action when action is necessary. There have been reforms in the past and if Obamacare goes down in flames, perhaps we can do some actual reforms. The idea that the system is flawed, therefore, we have to replace it with something even worse sounds pretty stupid to me. Perhaps you could post endless link about that?
815 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:56:21am |
re: #788 sattv4u2
The 1st ones didn't! At some point in time, the 1st NA had to venture off the reservation, just as the 1st Italian/ German/ Irish/ etc did
The first? How far back is that? The Mayflower?
Those people came en masse together. The immigrants at the turn of this century, many of them, came together, too. Others came alone but had somewhere, some people to join. It's not the same for our indigenous people. If you can't see that, I don't know how else to explain it. I'm not a First American even tho I seem to be playing one on LGF.
816 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:56:32am |
re: #796 J.S.
did you read the article?
Yes. The claim that skinheads are nothing to worry about, and the implication throughout that wariness is some kind of zero-sum game in which distrust of one group must somehow imply trust of another, is a faulty argument. I'm perfectly capable of condemning both groups, and both richly deserve condemnation.
817 | gregb Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:56:33am |
re: #545 taxfreekiller
It is clear to me that lots of bad off line e-mails go about regarding post herein.
I've had the same email address (as well as newer ones) for 24 years. In 1998 when Hillary popularized the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy meme, millions of people went online to figure out what it was. I had been on the Atlantic Monthly's P&R board and this little politics bboard both since 1995.
OMG, you should have seen the hatemail I got and the lengths people would go to disrupt my offline life.
I can only sympathize. (empathize?)
818 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:56:35am |
819 | Desert Dog Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:57:03am |
re: #810 VegasRick
They are ascaired to use it. Da teapartiers are gunna git em!
cue Deliverance soundtrack...
820 | kansas Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:57:23am |
re: #801 FrogMarch
Maybe Obama is wising up to the fact that this is impossible? Or Obama is wising up to the fact that voters are wising up to the fact.
Maybe Obama is wising up to the fact that voters are wising up to Obama. Off topic, is anyone here getting one of those Michelle Obama dolls from the Danbury Mint?
821 | Coracle Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:57:43am |
re: #803 kansas
Apparently Pelosi is not signed on to that paradigm, what with suddenly being opposed to vociferous protests.
Anyone who justifies their objectionable actions by pointing and saying "well did it first!" should get out of the schoolyard playground. Be an adult, even if - especially if - your opponent is not.
822 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:57:54am |
re: #782 Killgore Trout
I don't know if the rapid and poorly informed Tea Party base will allow it. We'll see.
And...then what? The Dems own the Federal government. Trying to blame anything on the GOP at the moment is a complete non-starter.
823 | rightymouse Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:58:07am |
My husband went to a celebration yesterday for a German couple who just became American citizens. At the swearing-in ceremony the Judge had them read this:
I do not choose to be a common man
It is my right to be uncommon...
If I can. I seek opportunity... Not security.
I do not wish to be a kept citizen,
Humbled and dulled by having the state to dream and build, to
Fail and succeed.
I refuse to barter incentive for a dole.
I prefer the challenges of life to the
Guaranteed existence; the thrill of
Fulfillment to the stale calm of utopia.
I will not trade freedom for beneficence
Nor my dignity for a hand out. I will
Never cower before any master nor bend
to any threat.
It is my heritage to stand erect,
proud, and unafraid; to think and act for
myself; enjoy the benefits of my
creations; and to face the world boldly
and say, "This I have done with my own hand,
I am a man. I am an American.
Dean Alfange
824 | yochanan Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:58:09am |
would a ZOOMBA take photo's of the worlds moonbats and dingbats on full auto?
825 | austin_blue Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:58:24am |
re: #629 sattv4u2
ummm,, I had a big bowl of chocolate fudge brownie chunk ice cream that I left out for about 20 minutes before devouring. Some of it was melted down, but ALL of it was YUMMY
Does that count?
Hey, Sat. Sure, I'll take that. Any news of chocolatey goodness is fine news.
826 | Macker Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:58:26am |
re: #822 SixDegrees
And...then what? The Dems own the Federal government. Trying to blame anything on the GOP at the moment is a complete non-starter.
Not to the Demo☭rats.
827 | Desert Dog Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:58:28am |
re: #816 SixDegrees
Yes. The claim that skinheads are nothing to worry about, and the implication throughout that wariness is some kind of zero-sum game in which distrust of one group must somehow imply trust of another, is a faulty argument. I'm perfectly capable of condemning both groups, and both richly deserve condemnation.
I think skinheads are something to be concerned about, but the point of this article is they are a blip on the radar screen compared to the actual monsters of this world. But, you are right, they are all bad.
828 | gregb Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:58:41am |
re: #580 American Sabra
The link no worky :(
It's a conspiracy! It completely worked an hour ago. :-)
[Link: tinyurl.com...]
829 | zombie Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:58:55am |
re: #805 jaunte
Some interesting factoids about Blue Cross - Blue shield:
Interesting!
So, basically, the new proposal will simply be creating an extra nonprofit insurance company to compete with Blue Shield!
I've already got the perfect name for it:
Red Shield.
830 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:59:16am |
re: #811 yochanan
the islamists are committing mass murder on a global scale the skins are mostly just hemoridal tissue on the worlds ass holes.
No reason at all to be unconcerned about what the skinheads are doing.
831 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:59:29am |
832 | HAL2010 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:59:30am |
re: #777 realwest
I think we are in Afghanistan for two reasons: the first is that almost immediately after we leave, the Taliban will resume control of the country, imposing yet again the harshest Sharia government in the world and the second is that the Taliban controlled country of Afghanistan will ONCE AGAIN be used by Al-Q to recruit, train, arm and plan attacks against the West, especially the United States.
Folks like to blast George W. Bush for a lot of things, many of which I agree with but he got one thing - and a VERY IMPORTANT thing right: if we can keep Al-Qaeda on the run, they will lack the resources and time in a safe place, to plot, plan and launch the attacks against us as they did on 9/11.
The government of Afghanistan already have strict Sharia laws, see e.g. the so called "rape law".
I should point out that very few member of Al-Qaeda are from Afghanistan. Bin Laden is Saudi, Zawahiri Egyptian. In the 1980's there was an "Arab" legion fighting the Soviets, they were not part of the same movement as what eventually became the Taliban. 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Saudi.
As for planning and recruiting, I agree that the major risk if we leave would be the potential safe haven for Al-Qaeda. However, at present Al-Qaeda do not present a threat in Afghanistan, but rather Pakistan, a country with nukes.
Although the idea of nation building is an amicable endeavour I would question the possibility in the case of Afghanistan, unless we are prepared to commit a large number of troops over several decades. This would not only strangle our ability to react to other situations around the globe, but also bogs us down in a country that has very little strategic interest. Pakistan is more interesting, as is probably Iraq (i.e. ensuring stability).
80 % of Al-Qaeda's top brass died in the bombings in 2001.
Again I ask:
Have we not accomplished the operational goals we set for Afghanistan in 2001?
833 | Pianobuff Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:59:30am |
re: #829 zombie
Interesting!
So, basically, the new proposal will simply be creating an extra nonprofit insurance company to compete with Blue Shield!
I've already got the perfect name for it:
Red Shield.
Sounds like a condom.
834 | zombie Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:59:35am |
re: #808 realwest
Good afternoon zombie! Hey c'mon that's not fair - confusing him with facts like that!
Afternoon? I just got out of bed! Still morning here.
835 | Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:59:42am |
re: #800 Pianobuff
Last I looked D's have a supermajority. Did I miss something?
Yup, it'll pass without Republican support as long as the Blue Dogs go along.
836 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:00:20am |
re: #812 zombie
Possibly. But then the same argument will start up again. We will have simply delayed the showdown.
As I've said a couple times upthread now, we have to be wary of winning the battles but losing the war.
This "new" option looks like the same old public option, with a heavy coat of lipstick applied.
837 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:00:26am |
re: #823 rightymouse
My husband went to a celebration yesterday for a German couple who just became American citizens. At the swearing-in ceremony the Judge had them read this:
I do not choose to be a common man
It is my right to be uncommon...
If I can. I seek opportunity... Not security.I do not wish to be a kept citizen,
Humbled and dulled by having the state to dream and build, to
Fail and succeed.I refuse to barter incentive for a dole.
I prefer the challenges of life to the
Guaranteed existence; the thrill of
Fulfillment to the stale calm of utopia.I will not trade freedom for beneficence
Nor my dignity for a hand out. I will
Never cower before any master nor bend
to any threat.It is my heritage to stand erect,
proud, and unafraid; to think and act for
myself; enjoy the benefits of my
creations; and to face the world boldly
and say, "This I have done with my own hand,
I am a man. I am an American.Dean Alfange
Sneak that into the Teleprompter. About halfway through, just imagine the confoosed looks.
838 | SteveC Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:00:27am |
Greensboro police are preparing for the possibility that a meeting of the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement could be held in the city later this month.The NSM, a group which describes itself as “defending the rights of white people everywhere,” is planning its Southeast/Mid-Atlantic Regional meeting on Aug. 29, according to the group’s Web site.
However, an exact location for the meeting has not been announced. Greensboro police are acting on intelligence that the event could occur her
What's the deal with Greensboro?
839 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:00:42am |
re: #829 zombie
Interesting!
So, basically, the new proposal will simply be creating an extra nonprofit insurance company to compete with Blue Shield!
I've already got the perfect name for it:
Red Shield.
Better yet, to assuage the anti-religious faction on the left, we'll call it
UN-CROSS/ RED SHEILD
840 | Ojoe Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:01:20am |
re: #835 Killgore Trout
They have a supermajority, but also they face the elections of 2010 and 2012,
with the voters in a pissy mood.
841 | kansas Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:01:42am |
re: #821 Coracle
Anyone who justifies their objectionable actions by pointing and saying "well did it first!" should get out of the schoolyard playground. Be an adult, even if - especially if - your opponent is not.
Not so much that they did it first, but that they did it first and continue to do it and it works. But hey, I want to play by the rules and lose. No thanks.
842 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:01:46am |
re: #798 yochanan
i want a woomba i wonder if they could have made one for males? and what about gay males?
[Link: www.hulu.com...]his is what SNL does now that it doesn't have the other kind of BUSH to make fun of.
When men don't feel fresh, they reach for the Right Guard. I don't think you'd want a woomba, unless there's something about yourself that you wish to share?
And might I add that that SNL skit was hysterical. I really am quite offended when TV ads tell me how to take care of my hoohoo, like women are clueless about this.
843 | Racer X Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:02:17am |
re: #800 Pianobuff
Last I looked D's have a supermajority. Did I miss something?
Wait - you mean Obama and Pelosi and Reid could pass any bill they wanted - all they need to do is get every Democrat to vote for it?
844 | horse Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:02:46am |
re: #839 sattv4u2
Better yet, to assuage the anti-religious faction on the left, we'll call it
UN-CROSS/ RED SHEILD
or Generic Symbolism/ Red Shield
845 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:02:49am |
re: #835 Killgore Trout
Yup, it'll pass without Republican support as long as the Blue Dogs
go alongsell their souls and give up all hope for reelection.
FTFY.
846 | Sharmuta Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:02:53am |
re: #843 Racer X
Wait - you mean Obama and Pelosi and Reid could pass any bill they wanted - all they need to do is get every Democrat to vote for it?
Easier said than done.
847 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:02:54am |
848 | brookly red Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:02:54am |
re: #840 Ojoe
They have a supermajority, but also they face the elections of 2010 and 2012,
with the voters in a pissy mood.
very pissy.
850 | Macker Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:03:36am |
re: #829 zombie
Interesting!
So, basically, the new proposal will simply be creating an extra nonprofit insurance company to compete with Blue Shield!
I've already got the perfect name for it:
Red Shield.
1,000,000 updings!
852 | Racer X Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:04:16am |
re: #846 Sharmuta
Easier said than done.
So wait, I'm confused. You mean it is not those damn Republicans that are preventing the health care bill from being made into law?
853 | Lincolntf Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:04:38am |
re: #838 SteveC
Greensboro isn 't too far from where I live. They just had a local "Latin King Leader" running for the City Council, and doing pretty well. Until he got arrested for interrupting the arrest of some gang-bangers.
I've only ever been to the airport myself, but the City is definitely "off".
854 | realwest Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:04:44am |
Uh, y'all we just started getting thunder and lightning so I'm outta here!
Hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!
855 | yochanan Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:04:44am |
re: #830 SixDegrees
i have a long list of different kinds of anti semites just right now the islamists kind is on the top of the list in the number and kind of mass murder they are commiting.
and left wing anti semites like N.K. being allies with the islamist and baathist kind of anti semite is were the next attempt at genocide of jews will come from not some doc martin wearing ska listening ass hole.
of course on the local level all of them are creeps. but iran with a N.K. nuke and N.K. missles to deliver said nuke could commit genocide.
856 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:04:46am |
re: #849 Ojoe
Pelosi reminds me of a shrunken head
I'd do her. (what is the name for that kind of sex again?)
857 | Ward Cleaver Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:05:16am |
859 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:05:44am |
re: #856 VegasRick
I'd do her. (what is the name for that kind of sex again?)
Getoverhere.
SMACK.
Wake up man, friends don't let friends do that shit.
860 | jaunte Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:05:48am |
More factoids:
BCBS Companies
Collectively, the Blue Cross and Blue Shield System provides healthcare coverage for more than 100 million people or one-in-three Americans.
* 39 Blue Cross and Blue Shield companies
* Among the 20 largest employers in the U.S.
* Healthcare coverage available in all 50 states, the District of Columbia and in Puerto Rico
* Nationwide, more than 90 percent of hospitals and 80 percent of physicians contract with BCBS companies – more than any other insurer
Maybe the answer is simply to expand BCBS.
861 | FrogMarch Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:05:50am |
re: #766 zombie
Looks like th Democrats have cracked, and the Health Care Bill is going to go down in flames:
White House appears ready to drop 'public option'
snip...
"I think there will be a competitor to private insurers," Sebelius said. "That's really the essential part, is you don't turn over the whole new marketplace to private insurance companies and trust them to do the right thing."Obama's top spokesman refused to say a public option was a make-or-break choice for the administration.
"What I am saying is the bottom line for this for the president is, what we have to have is choice and competition in the insurance market," White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said.
It seems to me they just want an opportunity to re-phrase. The administration and the democrats consider the government proper "competition". Will they really let that go?
862 | Racer X Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:06:09am |
re: #856 VegasRick
I'd do her. (what is the name for that kind of sex again?)
Thats just wrong - no matter what the name is.
(necrophilia?)
863 | SteveC Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:06:13am |
re: #852 Racer X
So wait, I'm confused. You mean it is not those damn Republicans that are preventing the health care bill from being made into law?
"No, Robin, this is not the work of the Joker, but rather of the other Maniac of Mayhem... The Riddler!"
864 | shortshrift Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:06:15am |
re: #785 zombie
I happened upon this at the website Race 4 2012:
Healthcare at $130 a person
I was reading the New York Times today and I came across an interesting Op-Ed. Liberal columnist Bob Herbert wrote about Community Health Centers.
Even though he liberally quoted from Socialist Senator (really) Bernie Sanders in the article I think Community Health Centers are an idea worth exploring.
Basically Community Health Centers receive some funding through the government but they charge for services on a sliding scale based on income. These centers are headed up by boards that must include patients.
In 2001 Community Health Centers served about 10 million people at a cost of 1.16 billion dollars.
Bush supported Community Health Centers and began a push to expand them soon after taking office.
By 2006 these centers served 15 million people at a cost of only 1.99 billion.
Today these centers serve 20 million people. 40% of them are uninsured, 90% earn less than twice the poverty level, and 70% are minorities.
Thank you President Bush for providing health care to millions of the uninsured at little cost to the rest of us.
That’s staggeringly cheap for the government. What’s amazing is that these centers tend to provide decent quality without undermining private business.
Because they charge on a sliding income scale these centers largely (90%) appeal to patients who can’t afford doctors. Few people earning above twice the poverty level use these facilities because they’re charged the full price for treatment.
These centers efficiently do much of what Democrats say their insurance reforms will do.
These Centers get patients regular doctor’s visits and head off future problems. They reduce the cost of healthcare while leaving incentives for patients not to abuse them (sliding fee scale). These Centers offer quality care to the uninsured.
Perhaps instead of risky and expensive insurance reform schemes we ought to look into expanding Community Health Centers (even quadrupling them would be a pittance although they would then reach 70% of the uninsured with affordable healthcare).
Then we could focus on the catastrophic side where many people are overwhelmed by expensive medical conditions or serious accidents.
by Doug Forrester @ 10:07 am. Filed under Issues
865 | jaunte Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:06:16am |
re: #860 jaunte
Forgot link: [Link: www.bcbs.com...]
866 | rightymouse Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:06:18am |
re: #837 SasquatchOnSteroids
Sneak that into the Teleprompter. About halfway through, just imagine the confoosed looks.
We forget what it means to be Americans at times. I don't see people here flocking to other countries that have socialized policies.
867 | brookly red Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:06:21am |
868 | Sharmuta Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:06:29am |
re: #852 Racer X
So wait, I'm confused. You mean it is not those damn Republicans that are preventing the health care bill from being made into law?
I though it was pretty clear it was the Blue Dogs.
869 | Ward Cleaver Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:06:45am |
871 | VegasRick Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:07:16am |
re: #859 SasquatchOnSteroids
Getoverhere.
SMACK.
Wake up man, friends don't let friends do that shit.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLLO!!!
872 | Macker Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:07:55am |
re: #864 shortshrift
But you see, that was done by George W. Bush, and for that reason alone, it is EVIL.
/
873 | Racer X Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:08:37am |
re: #868 Sharmuta
I though it was pretty clear it was the Blue Dogs.
Everything I see in the news is presented as "Republican opposition".
874 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:08:48am |
re: #828 gregb
It's a conspiracy! It completely worked an hour ago. :-)
[Link: tinyurl.com...]
Ah! A little bedtime reading? Thanks for the link. I'll take a peek.
875 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:08:51am |
876 | Shug Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:08:52am |
Payback is a bitch
Rahm gets demoted by Hillary
16 years later, he tells Hillary she can't have Blumental on her staff
bet she ain't happy
877 | Pianobuff Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:09:32am |
Drudge is getting in on the action now. Graphic of a big white flag with the caption in bold, large, red lettering:
RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION'
878 | SteveC Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:09:53am |
re: #872 Macker
But you see, that was done by George W. Bush, and for that reason alone, it is EVIL.
/
Bush Lied! Granny went to the Community Heath Center!
879 | Shug Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:10:07am |
re: #877 Pianobuff
Drudge is getting in on the action now. Graphic of a big white flag with the caption in bold, large, red lettering:
RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION'
Mob rule!
heh
880 | horse Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:10:21am |
re: #779 Killgore Trout
Update: Bollywood star detained by US security causes Islamist seething...
Muslims stage protest against Salman Khan’s objectionable comment in Mumbai
That poor guy, he's on a short run of poor luck trapped between three worlds. Hopefully he doesn't get pinched.
881 | FrogMarch Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:10:31am |
re: #840 Ojoe
They have a supermajority, but also they face the elections of 2010 and 2012,
with the voters in a pissy mood.
The key now is for the democrats to get as much of what they want without us pesky voters really understanding what is going on. I call it - frosting the sh*t-cake.
I do think if the house bill were to pass as-is the democrats would be out big time in 2010. Obama could be looking more like Jimmy Carter in 2012.
882 | Lincolntf Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:10:46am |
re: #877 Pianobuff
Score one for the good guys?
Do we dare celebrate or will that jinx it?
883 | brookly red Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:10:57am |
re: #876 Shug
Payback is a bitch
Rahm gets demoted by Hillary
16 years later, he tells Hillary she can't have Blumental on her staff
bet she ain't happy
I can't decide which one is dis-like more...
884 | J.D. Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:11:07am |
re: #877 Pianobuff
Drudge is getting in on the action now. Graphic of a big white flag with the caption in bold, large, red lettering:
RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION'
That sounds fishy... ... must report... ...
885 | J.S. Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:11:22am |
re: #816 SixDegrees
You're distorting what Jonas wrote. He never claimed that skinheads are "nothing to worry about." He isn't happy about skinheads reappearance in Europe. However, in an attempt to organize his worries/fears, he's saying that a nuclear armed Iran is much, much worse. (ditto for Obama's views regarding Israel),. And skinheads prancing about Budapest (or not) can't match the threat level of a nuclear armed Iran or a "round head" in the Oval office. It's about "priorities" -- and, I'm quite confident that anyone can make the claim "I am concerned about both groups" -- yeah, wow, so what? In the real world it's all about priorities.
886 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:11:29am |
re: #835 Killgore Trout
Yup, it'll pass without Republican support as long as the Blue Dogs go along.
Difficult to reconcile with your #782
887 | kansas Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:11:31am |
re: #877 Pianobuff
Drudge is getting in on the action now. Graphic of a big white flag with the caption in bold, large, red lettering:
RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION'
You know they're gonna either change the name of it or cram it into some other bill in the middle of the night.
888 | Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:11:41am |
re: #880 horse
That poor guy, he's on a short run of poor luck trapped between three worlds. Hopefully he doesn't get pinched.
I do feel for him but he's crazy rich. He'll be just fine (unless the Islamists kill him)
889 | Sharmuta Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:11:45am |
re: #873 Racer X
Everything I see in the news is presented as "Republican opposition".
Quite a few here at LGF have pointed out it's the Blue Dogs the dems need to win over to their side.
890 | Ward Cleaver Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:11:48am |
re: #865 jaunte
Forgot link: [Link: www.bcbs.com...]
BCBS started out as a health plan run by Baylor Hospital here in Dallas, set up by Justin F. Kimball, a former DISD superintendent, who has a high school named after him here in Dallas. I have a little book titled, "Our City Dallas", a history of the city, that he authored back in 1952.
891 | horse Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:12:05am |
892 | Pianobuff Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:12:10am |
re: #882 Lincolntf
Score one for the good guys?
Do we dare celebrate or will that jinx it?
I'm staying calm on this. Too many laps left in this race and we don't know the details of this co-op stuff yet, which seems like it may be what ends up in the bill.
894 | Shug Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:12:38am |
re: #883 brookly red
I can't decide which one is dis-like more...
both are at zero degrees Kelvin on my dislike scale
895 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:12:46am |
896 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:13:03am |
re: #883 brookly red
I can't decide which one is dis-like more...
I'm an equal opportunity disliker on those 2.
Cagematch.
59.95.
I'd pay to watch it.
897 | brookly red Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:13:05am |
re: #882 Lincolntf
Score one for the good guys?
Do we dare celebrate or will that jinx it?
it's only wounded, it's not dead.
898 | Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:13:13am |
re: #886 SixDegrees
Difficult to reconcile with your #782
No, it's not. Work on those reading comprehension skills.
899 | kansas Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:13:16am |
Maybe Obama should get the Sham Wow guy to sell his program. I guess Billy Mays is out of the question now.
900 | horse Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:14:03am |
re: #888 Killgore Trout
I do feel for him but he's crazy rich. He'll be just fine (unless the Islamists kill him)
That's the rub. Hopefully its not one of his own security who's a mole. But hey, he can always come live here to be safe and spend his money (and if we treat him right) :)
902 | Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:14:07am |
903 | Shug Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:14:10am |
re: #899 kansas
Maybe Obama should get the Sham Wow guy to sell his program. I guess Billy Mays is out of the question now.
Headline:
Sham Wow guy meets Scam Wow guy
904 | Racer X Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:14:41am |
Now I'm kinda pissed off.
Democrats control the White House and Congress. Yet when they can't get a bill passed they blame Republicans. Reality is Republicans are now IRRELEVANT! Why is it still their fault?
905 | kansas Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:15:45am |
re: #902 Killgore Trout
I prefer the professionally made posters paid for with stimulus money. [Link: healthcareforamericanow.org...]
906 | SteveC Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:15:46am |
re: #897 brookly red
it's only wounded, it's not dead.
"We put a stake through her heart and then cut her head off and finally she was at peace." -- Van Helsing, Dracula
907 | Lincolntf Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:16:00am |
re: #904 Racer X
It's an extension of Obama's Infallibility Doctrine. Everything is always someone else's fault.
908 | Sharmuta Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:16:03am |
re: #904 Racer X
Now I'm kinda pissed off.
Democrats control the White House and Congress. Yet when they can't get a bill passed they blame Republicans. Reality is Republicans are now IRRELEVANT! Why is it still their fault?
Why? That's politics.
909 | Pianobuff Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:16:15am |
re: #904 Racer X
Now I'm kinda pissed off.
Democrats control the White House and Congress. Yet when they can't get a bill passed they blame Republicans. Reality is Republicans are now IRRELEVANT! Why is it still their fault?
A re-training officer will arrive at your residence shortly to start corrective procedures. Please pack some extra socks.
910 | jaunte Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:16:38am |
re: #904 Racer X
It's useful to have someone to blame, whether it's true or not.
911 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:16:46am |
re: #905 kansas
I prefer the professionally made posters paid for with stimulus money. [Link: healthcareforamericanow.org...]
heh...touche
913 | kansas Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:17:07am |
re: #904 Racer X
Now I'm kinda pissed off.
Democrats control the White House and Congress. Yet when they can't get a bill passed they blame Republicans. Reality is Republicans are now IRRELEVANT! Why is it still their fault?
Because blaming them still works.
915 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:17:49am |
re: #904 Racer X
Now I'm kinda pissed off.
Democrats control the White House and Congress. Yet when they can't get a bill passed they blame Republicans. Reality is Republicans are now IRRELEVANT! Why is it still their fault?
Because. I Won. Shaddup.
~Sunshine
917 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:18:05am |
re: #898 Killgore Trout
No, it's not. Work on those reading comprehension skills.
Feel free to explain how
I don't know if the rapid and poorly informed Tea Party base will allow it. We'll see.
offered in response to "No, in the article I linked to, the Republicans said they'll probably support the co-op option"
is consistent with
Yup, it'll pass without Republican support as long as the Blue Dogs go along.
In the first, the Republicans have to allow something; in the second, there's nothing they can do about it.
Sounds like it's more a matter of writing skills - or perhaps simply a desire to froth for the sake of frothing - than of comprehension.
918 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:18:13am |
I think that I now no why BHO will not release his transripts. After listening to him the last couple of weeks, I doubt that he took any economics.
919 | Pianobuff Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:18:20am |
re: #914 jaunte
I blame Columbus!
I blame those snoopy kids. If they hadn't gone sneaking around that amusement park with that talking dog, none of this would have happened.
920 | Macker Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:18:45am |
re: #904 Racer X
Now I'm kinda pissed off.
Democrats control the White House and Congress. Yet when they can't get a bill passed they blame Republicans. Reality is Republicans are now IRRELEVANT! Why is it still their fault?
George W. Bush will ALWAYS be the Demo☭rats boogeyman.
921 | J.D. Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:19:14am |
re: #918 opnion
I think that I now no why BHO will not release his transripts. After listening to him the last couple of weeks, I doubt that he took any economics.
If he did, he must have failed miserably.
922 | brookly red Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:19:29am |
re: #904 Racer X
Now I'm kinda pissed off.
Democrats control the White House and Congress. Yet when they can't get a bill passed they blame Republicans. Reality is Republicans are now IRRELEVANT! Why is it still their fault?
fault? whoever is responsible is a freakin hero.
923 | Racer X Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:19:32am |
re: #908 Sharmuta
Why? That's politics.
Man, If I was Michael Steele I would be putting out a press release every day saying "If you really want this health care bill, then pass it. You do not need one Republican on-board. Why is it still being debated?"
924 | SteveC Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:19:32am |
re: #910 jaunte
It's useful to have someone to blame, whether it's true or not.
I blame SecState Bill Clinton. (Just to see Hillary go nuts!)
926 | Shug Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:19:41am |
re: #918 opnion
I think that I now no why BHO will not release his transripts. After listening to him the last couple of weeks, I doubt that he took any economics.
He took enough econ to know how to get stuff for nothing
927 | horse Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:19:44am |
re: #902 Killgore Trout
Picking on a little girl in that picture :( and she had the best sign by far.
But he did have an innovative idea with his sign.
928 | J.D. Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:20:20am |
929 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:20:40am |
re: #923 Racer X
Man, If I was Michael Steele I would be putting out a press release every day saying "If you really want this health care bill, then pass it. You do not need one Republican on-board. Why is it still being debated?"
two words...
mobs
930 | Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:20:42am |
re: #917 SixDegrees
Republican votes aren't needed to pass the bill. Republicans who might vote for the bill anyways will most likely face the fury of the Tea Party crowd. We'll see if any Republicans vote for it and what reaction comes from the base. It's a very simple statement.
931 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:21:07am |
re: #920 Macker
George W. Bush will ALWAYS be the Demo☭rats boogeyman.
I always liked that how at the same time he (Bush) could be an evil genius who stole two elections AND be a stupid puppet controlled by Cheney/ Rove/ Haliburton!
932 | Shug Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:21:11am |
re: #927 horse
Picking on a little girl in that picture :( and she had the best sign by far.
But he did have an innovative idea with his sign.
I'd like to stand behind him with a sign that says
STILL LIVES AT HOME WITH HIS PARENTS
933 | jaunte Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:21:46am |
re: #927 horse
Picking on a little girl in that picture :( and she had the best sign by far.
But he did have an innovative idea with his sign.
(Hasn't read the other signs, but knows they're wrong in advance)
934 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:21:47am |
re: #921 J.D.
If he did, he must have failed miserably.
Oh no, I doubt that, he has gotten a life time leg up.
935 | Lincolntf Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:22:14am |
re: #923 Racer X
I hear ya, but I wouldn't want that. The most important thing is stopping the debacle before it starts, not making the Dems look foolish/divided. That'll come anyway. Let's not bait them overmuch.
937 | SasquatchOnSteroids Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:22:45am |
I blame Putin for all of this Russian shit through without reading it.
938 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:23:11am |
re: #934 opnion
Oh no, I doubt that, he has gotten a life time leg up.
actually I think BO probably majored in Drama, theater, that sort of thing
939 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:23:29am |
re: #930 Killgore Trout
Republican votes aren't needed to pass the bill. Republicans who might vote for the bill anyways will most likely face the fury of the Tea Party crowd. We'll see if any Republicans vote for it and what reaction comes from the base. It's a very simple statement.
By the same token, Blue Dogs ARE needed to pass any bill. Are they influenced by the republican base?
If so, by how much
And if so, WHY? They got voted in as Dems. I'm sure the repub base/ tea partiers didn't get them elected
940 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:23:58am |
re: #930 Killgore Trout
Republican votes aren't needed to pass the bill. Republicans who might vote for the bill anyways will most likely face the fury of the Tea Party crowd. We'll see if any Republicans vote for it and what reaction comes from the base. It's a very simple statement.
THe Tea Party crowd? Stop it , stop it you're killin me!
The SEIU thugs that Barry unleashed on U.S citizens, that's ok?
941 | kansas Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:24:25am |
re: #940 opnion
THe Tea Party crowd? Stop it , stop it you're killin me!
The SEIU thugs that Barry unleashed on U.S citizens, that's ok?
Dude, two wrongs don't make a right. Cmon./
942 | horse Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:24:27am |
re: #933 jaunte
(Hasn't read the other signs, but knows they're wrong in advance)
Of course he does, that's part of being an arrogant jerk.
943 | J.D. Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:24:34am |
945 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:24:49am |
re: #938 albusteve
actually I think BO probably majored in Drama, theater, that sort of thing
He is a freaking drama queen.
947 | Desert Dog Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:25:02am |
re: #902 Killgore Trout
Wow, they look downright scary...just look at the evil and stupid drippin' off of them! ewww
Lucky for you Killgore, you have a much more sane and sophisticated group of demonstrators agreeing with your POV
948 | Jewels (AKA Julian) Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:25:40am |
OT: Yes Prime Minister On the Arabs and Israel
949 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:26:09am |
re: #941 kansas
Dude, two wrongs don't make a right. Cmon./
three lefts make a right!
I tried it. Took longer to drive there, but I made it!
950 | Desert Dog Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:26:16am |
re: #930 Killgore Trout
Republican votes aren't needed to pass the bill. Republicans who might vote for the bill anyways will most likely face the fury of the Tea Party crowd. We'll see if any Republicans vote for it and what reaction comes from the base. It's a very simple statement.
Here's another statement. The Blue Dogs that cave in will be one termers...but that is of no concern to Rahm or Barack, is it? Just as long as they pass this bill, right?
951 | sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:27:46am |
re: #947 Desert Dog
Wow, they look downright scary...just look at the evil and stupid drippin' off of them! ewww
Lucky for you Killgore, you have a much more sane and sophisticated group of demonstrators agreeing with your POV
Damn radicals. How dare that guy in the yellow button down shirt wear loafers with dress slacks!
952 | horse Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:27:47am |
re: #947 Desert Dog
Wow, they look downright scary...just look at the evil and stupid drippin' off of them! ewww
Lucky for you Killgore, you have a much more sane and sophisticated group of demonstrators agreeing with your POV
It also looks like Brooks Brothers fashion has gone crazy Target/Walmart casual.
953 | kansas Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:27:52am |
re: #950 Desert Dog
Here's another statement. The Blue Dogs that cave in will be one termers...but that is of no concern to Rahm or Barack, is it? Just as long as they pass this bill, right?
The Blue Dog that is my district might get another term if he gets off this shit, but he won't cause of the deals they are cutting to give them big lobbying jobs if they stay on board and get booted. Just a rumor though.
954 | SixDegrees Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:29:46am |
re: #930 Killgore Trout
Republican votes aren't needed to pass the bill. Republicans who might vote for the bill anyways will most likely face the fury of the Tea Party crowd. We'll see if any Republicans vote for it and what reaction comes from the base. It's a very simple statement.
Your two original statements, taken together, remain contradictory.
Nice evasion, however.
956 | albusteve Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:29:58am |
The bill is gone
The bill is gone away
The bill is gone baby
The bill is gone away
You know you done me wrong baby
And you'll be sorry someday
BB King
957 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:30:35am |
re: #943 J.D.
How so?
He get's dumped on Grandama who dotes on him & works like a dog to send him to the best prep school in Hawaii (That's the grandma he villified as a racist)
According to his own memoir he was a stoner poor student, yetr he get's an academic college scholarship & fast tracked to the Ivy League.
President of Harvard Law Review & no artcles?
An obsure IL State Senator, shoots to the U.S Senate & has a cup of coffee & just campaigns for President.
Bingo, he wins with a much a slogans.
Lots of leg ups.
958 | Macker Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:33:25am |
re: #957 opnion
Simply put: Оба́ма didn't love his grandma the way any decent person should...but loved his grandma's MONEY.
959 | yochanan Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:33:33am |
re: #912 Sharmuta
i blame the woomba the other kind of bush
961 | J.D. Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:35:20am |
re: #957 opnion
True, he had a lot of help for which many of us would not qualify.
I would still be willing to bet he failed miserably at economics if he even gave it a try.
962 | FrogMarch Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:35:23am |
re: #820 kansas
Maybe Obama is wising up to the fact that voters are wising up to Obama. Off topic, is anyone here getting one of those Michelle Obama dolls from the Danbury Mint?
I've got my commemorative plate.
963 | Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:35:34am |
re: #939 sattv4u2
?
I think the problem is that you're trying to twist my statements into something that I didn't say and don't believe. Since this is turning into a strawman squabble I'll just move up to the next thread.
964 | J.D. Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:36:40am |
re: #960 taxfreekiller
Next shoe to drop to attempt to get the commie health care bill off life support.
Monday,,,"tort reform" will be floated.
By who?
That would be fabulous, but I'm not seeing anyone who is interested in broaching that topic.
965 | opnion Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:37:11am |
re: #958 Macker
Simply put: Оба́ма didn't love his grandma the way any decent person should...but loved his grandma's MONEY.
He showed extreme disloyalty & lack of gtratitude. That woman sacraficed for the little pecker.
966 | J.D. Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:39:16am |
967 | American Sabra Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:42:53am |
Not to beat a dead horse (grin), but I wanted to be a little more clear about the Native American assimilation issue upthread because I may have contradicted myself.
I think there's two kinds of assimilation. There's a "physical" assimilation where you take on the look and outer culture of the new group. You wear the same clothes, listen to the same music, eat their foods, etc. Then there's a "spiritual" assimilation or an inner assimilation that applies to religion or tradition. The trick is to physically assimilate without losing yourself, as it were, and the only way to keep your own culture within a culture is if you have the people there to support it. Moving off the rez where there are few N.A. of your nation is like a silent genocide.
968 | Athens Runaway Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:48:54am |
re: #967 American Sabra
Slightly OT, but here's another kind of physical assimilation. XD
Back on topic, I'd argue that it's possible (and should be encouraged) to "spiritually assimilate" into a nation without losing your identity. The Irish immigrants certainly became Americans did so without losing their identity as Irish.
I blame the hyphenation of nationalities. People start thinking of themselves as something separate from American, and behave as such.
"American" isn't a race, it's a state of mind.
969 | FrogMarch Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:51:35am |
970 | gregb Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:54:38am |
re: #839 sattv4u2
Better yet, to assuage the anti-religious faction on the left, we'll call it
UN-CROSS/ RED SHEILD
Red Crescent? So as not to offend anyone.
972 | yochanan Sun, Aug 16, 2009 11:04:34am |
re: #932 Shug
I'd like to stand behind him with a sign that says
STILL LIVES AT HOME WITH HIS PARENTS
or he still works for congresscritter jan s. (husband was convicted of tax evasion and bank fraud)
973 | yochanan Sun, Aug 16, 2009 11:05:32am |
974 | garycooper Sun, Aug 16, 2009 11:19:31am |
re: #619 LudwigVanQuixote
Ahhh, yes, you are the one who still refuses to look at actual data.
You are the one who brought a debunked list of 400 "scientists" , where many of the "scientists" were economists, political hacks and tv weathermen.
When Charles pointed it out to you. You said you already knew that the list had been debunked - and yet you brought it anyway.
Now as to less than a degree, you need to understand how dramatic a change that is over a whole planet and that not only is the temp going up, but the rate at which it is increasing is also going up.
Further. Had you actually read this, you would see that if you consider the present warming trivial, than you must consider the medieval warm period even more trivial.
As to high foreheads, I don't know about that, but you would feel less threatened by scientists and other smart people who actually know what they are talking about, if you took the time to open your eyes and think.
None of your angry prattle means anything, Lud. I know your arguments much better than you do. My argument contains yours.
Less than one degree, in the past century. No warming, in the past decade. You can't reconcile these indisputable facts, with the AGW-hysteria. It can't be done. You do the math, Teach.
975 | shortshrift Sun, Aug 16, 2009 11:54:57am |
re: #968 Athens Runaway
Slightly OT, but here's another kind of physical assimilation. XD
I blame the hyphenation of nationalities. People start thinking of themselves as something separate from American, and behave as such.
"American" isn't a race, it's a state of mind.
America is a state. It is a jurisdiction of laws, a constitutional republic and a democracy. The law should tolerate no conflicting cultural practices or foreign laws, but otherwise every individual is free to join with others in enjoying rites, customs, rituals, dress, food, ancestral clan jamborees etc. of other times and places.
The idea of reservations - quasi-autonomous
jurisdictions - is highly problematic philosophically. Insofar as it confers rights in the collective, not the individual, it is contrary to American jurisprudence.
976 | shortshrift Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:35:49pm |
re: #974 garycooper
One of the aspects of the debate that should be examined is what constitutes "debunking".
A list of dissenters is not "debunked" when a few on the list withdraw their names, or are found to be fakes. Petitions are always subject to abuse.
As for who is "qualified" to be on a dissenting list - some scientists, but not others, some who work in the field, but not others - that is irrelevant to the purpose of the list - to show a number of dissenters. Every one of the dissenter lists contains many established scientists once you have removed the names that should not be there (they changed their minds, were mistakenly put on in the first place, did not exist.)
Conversely, when professional scientific bodies take a pro-AGW stance - they are assuming general agreement. Many scientists in such bodies are not actually working in climate science, have not read much on either side, but are happy to go along with the party line. I know of one such - a well-known biologist - personally. So a "Society" endorsement of a position is not evidence of consensus.
Content of argument is what is important. Who is saying it, for what motive, under whose auspices, funded by whomever - not part of the debate. The actual scientific journals are filled with studies that either confirm or challenge the evidence for AGW. The scientist may or may not be moved to undertake the studies in order to prove a particular theory. Some are honest enough to let the findings speak for themselves, some tinker with them. "Debunking " is a long, slow process of sifting, re-evaluation, careful examination, mathematics checking...
Any argument that relies on any non-substantive rebuttal does not debunk.
I understand why this is not the forum for substantive scientific discusssion, which is probably why it always comes down to whether there is a respecatble opposition to AGW. By saying that the dissenters are knaves, fools, stooges and, in any case, so few it hardly matters what they say, one can avoid going into the substance, pace LudwigVanQuixote and a few others . LVQ often dazzles with restating premises and fundamental laws, but he is gnostic with respect to causal conclusions.