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1 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:28:16pm

I always post on the end of open threads...Not the beginning..
Good Morning Lizards!

2 Desert Dog  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:30:49pm

re: #1 HoosierHoops

I always post on the end of open threads...Not the beginning..
Good Morning Lizards!

Try not to be the first AND last post too...

3 Bagua  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:33:39pm

re: #1 HoosierHoops

Didn't you already say goodnight?

4 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:34:04pm

Your text to link...Anyone see this? Apparently Anwar Sadat's daughter is deeply offended that there is a dog named after her father in "I Love You, Man".

Me, I'm only baffled.

Apparently, his nephew thinks it's no biggie.

I know the Turkish community rumbled a bit when "Pearls Before Swine", the comic strip, had a llama named Ataturk. That I didn't get at all.

My mother, trying to be empathetic, asked how we would feel if the llama was named Golda Meir.

"Confused", I said.

5 pat  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:34:56pm

I doubt it.

6 Desert Dog  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:35:34pm

More Aldous!

An unexciting truth may be eclipsed by a thrilling lie.
-Aldous Huxley

Beauty is worse than wine, it intoxicates both the holder and beholder.
-Aldous Huxley

7 Desert Dog  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:37:55pm

One more...can't resist:

Cynical realism is the intelligent man's best excuse for doing nothing in an intolerable situation.
-Aldous Huxley

8 freetoken  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:38:12pm

Did everyone know that Yoga can cure swine flu?

Yoga can cure swine flu: Baba Ramdev

/it's moonbat day...

9 Bagua  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:38:20pm

Candy is Dandy but Liquor is Quicker

- Ogden Nash

10 Bagua  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:40:02pm

re: #8 freetoken

I didn't even know that pigs could dance.

Bold, conservative Bachmann hints at 'Mrs. President' future

11 Bagua  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:41:19pm

Ooops, the title was a ghost of cut and paste.

12 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:41:35pm

The quality of moral behaviour varies in inverse ratio to the number of human beings involved.

— Aldous Huxley

Well, we have certainly seen that recently on crucial matters of public policy, haven't we?

13 freetoken  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:43:19pm

re: #10 Bagua

All I will say about Ms. Bachmann is that she is on the looney fringe of the right.

14 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:43:56pm

re: #9 Bagua

Candy is Dandy but Liquor is Quicker

- Ogden Nash

Reflections on Diaper Changing:

A bit of talcum
Is always walcome

And the shortest poem in the English Language:

Fleas

Adam Had'm

15 Bagua  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:45:16pm

re: #13 freetoken

The link was to a dancing pig, I had left the Bachmann title in by mistake from some-one's post.

16 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:45:30pm

re: #3 Bagua

Didn't you already say goodnight?

Only to other lizards..I'm wide awake and may go swimming shortly..:)

17 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:45:50pm

Four be the things I am wiser to know,
Happiness, sorrow, a friend and a foe.

Four be the things I'd been better without,
Love, curiousity, freckles and doubt.

Three be the things I shall never attain,
Envy, content and sufficient champagne.

Three be the things I shall have till I die,
Laughter and hope, and a sock in the eye.

My grandmother and I used to chant Dorothy Parker together.

18 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:46:22pm

re: #16 HoosierHoops

Only to other lizards..I'm wide awake and may go swimming shortly..:)

Mmmm... water...

What's that like?

19 Bagua  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:47:20pm

re: #16 HoosierHoops

Only to other lizards..I'm wide awake and may go swimming shortly..:)

Steady on man, restrain yourself from doing anything reckless.

20 Kragar  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:47:21pm

Evening all, how goes it?

21 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:48:46pm

re: #20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Evening all, how goes it?

Down in Texas, it's hot dry, and, bitter. Much like Hillary, without the heat.

22 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:49:16pm

re: #18 austin_blue

Mmmm... water...

What's that like?

Don't hate me..We have a 6 person hot tub on the deck...I'm this close to turning on rock and roll and staring out at the starry night..
Then swimming laps..don't be hating...LOL
Hope you are well tonight

23 HelloDare  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:49:32pm
The quality of moral behaviour varies in inverse ratio to the number of human beings involved.

— Aldous Huxley

There are 435 members of the House of Representatives. And 100 Senators.

24 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:50:10pm

re: #16 HoosierHoops

CANNON BALL!

25 Desert Dog  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:50:25pm

The New US Navy, Aqua-Unicorn Squad, the bad guys are really screwed now.

26 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:50:49pm

re: #24 Floral Giraffe

CANNON BALL!

LOL
one more beer...

27 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:50:53pm

re: #17 SanFranciscoZionist

Four be the things I am wiser to know,
Happiness, sorrow, a friend and a foe.

Four be the things I'd been better without,
Love, curiousity, freckles and doubt.

Three be the things I shall never attain,
Envy, content and sufficient champagne.

Three be the things I shall have till I die,
Laughter and hope, and a sock in the eye.

My grandmother and I used to chant Dorothy Parker together.

"All I need is an apartment large enough to lay my hat and a few friends."

28 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:51:25pm

re: #17 SanFranciscoZionist

I like that a LOT.
Thank you.
*clink*
Champagne glasses

29 Bagua  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:52:06pm

re: #21 austin_blue

Down in Texas, it's hot dry, and, bitter. Much like Hillary, without the heat.

And hot and wet and humid. Texas is a nasty place.

30 Desert Dog  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:53:09pm

re: #22 HoosierHoops

Don't hate me..We have a 6 person hot tub on the deck...I'm this close to turning on rock and roll and staring out at the starry night..
Then swimming laps..don't be hating...LOL
Hope you are well tonight

If we had a pool, I would be in it now too. Current temp, Phoenix, AZ. Should I run through the sprinklers instead?

31 Fenway_Nation  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:53:55pm

re: #29 Bagua

And this is just seconds after I find out some of the railways now have entry-level positions available in Texas.

Thanks, Captain buzzkill.

32 Kragar  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:54:16pm

So anyone else see District 9 yet?

33 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:54:38pm

re: #30 Desert Dog

Running through the sprinklers, or a slip and slide. Egads, the choices! Get wet, young Lizard, get wet!
LOL!

34 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:54:58pm

re: #22 HoosierHoops

Don't hate me..We have a 6 person hot tub on the deck...I'm this close to turning on rock and roll and staring out at the starry night..
Then swimming laps..don't be hating...LOL
Hope you are well tonight

I'm good! She Who Must Be Obeyed is still out of town and so I the cat and I are sitting in our underwear looking at a computer screen. Rented "Shooter" tonight. A little heavy on the corporate control of Amerika, but shit blew up real good.

35 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:55:20pm

re: #32 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So anyone else see District 9 yet?

No read the reviews...Peter Jackson Produced it...How was it? I heard it was freaking great

36 Bagua  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:55:51pm

re: #31 Fenway_Nation

Save yourself the torture, unless the reward is great.

37 Desert Dog  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:56:06pm

re: #32 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So anyone else see District 9 yet?

Tomorrow NO SPOILERS!!! please!

38 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:56:16pm

re: #32 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Taking the 16 y/o geek boy to see it tomorrow. Based on your reccomendation. I'm excited. It's been a LONG time since I've seen a movie in a the-a-tre!

39 Kragar  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:57:42pm

re: #35 HoosierHoops

No read the reviews...Peter Jackson Produced it...How was it? I heard it was freaking great

I thought it was great, wife enjoyed it. Took a little bit to get started but never let up after that. Sharpto did a really good job portraying Wikus. They actually paid attention to things like character and plot development and it shows

40 NelsFree  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:57:45pm

re: #25 Desert Dog

The New US Navy, Aqua-Unicorn Squad, the bad guys are really screwed now.


They are saying, "GET OUT OF MY WAY!!" I believe them. I have nar(whal)y a doubt about it.

41 Kragar  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:58:49pm

re: #37 Desert Dog

Tomorrow NO SPOILERS!!! please!

The wife cried some at the end.

42 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:58:59pm

re: #40 NelsFree

I would get out of the way of that. Good grief.

43 Fenway_Nation  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:59:17pm

re: #36 Bagua


Meh...no garuntee the reward's gonna be great, but it can't be too much worse than my current double-digit unemployment blue state with gun-control laws that border on the patronizing...

44 Bagua  Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:59:19pm

re: #40 NelsFree

oh oh,

looks like the unicorns are melting faster than predicted.

45 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:00:15am

re: #44 Bagua

oh oh,

looks like the unicorns are melting faster than predicted.

Naa, they're just eating all the drown polar bears

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:00:21am

re: #44 Bagua

oh oh,

looks like the unicorns are melting faster than predicted.

On the other hand, they seem to be adapting. Look at 'em go!

47 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:01:30am

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #44 Bagua


On the other hand, they seem to be adapting. Look at 'em go!

But now they have a taste for human blood!
/

48 Bagua  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:01:54am

re: #43 Fenway_Nation

What state is that?

I find the holster gets all sticky and clingy in the hot/humid/hell.

49 NelsFree  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:02:20am

re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist

I would get out of the way of that. Good grief.

Aboard the USS VIRGINIA: "Control, Sonar. We got large mammals at 010, up doppler, and large pointy things."
C.O.:" Get the SEAL team ready with extremely large olives, on the double!"

50 Digital Display  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:03:14am

re: #39 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I thought it was great, wife enjoyed it. Took a little bit to get started but never let up after that. Sharpto did a really good job portraying Wikus. They actually paid attention to things like character and plot development and it shows

The background is amazing...After getting dumped from the 147 million dollar movie Halo because of a freud between Sony and Universal..Peter was major motivated to go old school sci-fi script...Reviewers have lauded the first Sci-fi in years that alluded to social issues like the 60's and 70's.
I hear another script is in the works

51 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:03:53am

re: #38 Floral Giraffe

Taking the 16 y/o geek boy to see it tomorrow. Based on your reccomendation. I'm excited. It's been a LONG time since I've seen a movie in a the-a-tre!

Don't know where you are, but you should insist on some entrepeneur to get on to this franchise:

[Link: www.drafthouse.com...]

It is the absolute killer bee of adult movie going. You get food and drink served at your seat. No kids. Sucking down a Guinness and watching a flick is absolutely delightful.

Oh, and my down the street neighbor Tim League invented the concept. Smart boy.

52 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:04:02am

No, it's not Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, it's Death Masks of the rich and famous.

I must...stop...StumbleOn...must...stop...click...click...click...

53 NelsFree  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:05:05am

re: #50 HoosierHoops

The background is amazing...After getting dumped from the 147 million dollar movie Halo because of a freud between Sony and Universal..

I'm afraid you made a feudian slip.
/h

54 Digital Display  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:06:09am

re: #53 NelsFree

I'm afraid you made a feudian slip.
/h

Red face! Dang it...I need more beer!

55 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:06:46am

re: #50 HoosierHoops

The background is amazing...After getting dumped from the 147 million dollar movie Halo because of a freud between Sony and Universal..Peter was major motivated to go old school sci-fi script...Reviewers have lauded the first Sci-fi in years that alluded to social issues like the 60's and 70's.
I hear another script is in the works

We have uncovered footage of your last pool party, Hoosier. You and your pals are regular pool party animals!

56 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:07:17am

Hoos, if we can ask, what kind of dog is Winston?

57 freetoken  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:07:51am

re: #50 HoosierHoops


I hear another script is in the works

District 9 From Outer Space ?

58 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:08:14am

re: #48 Bagua

The wonderfully bankrupt state of California...

59 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:08:42am

re: #51 austin_blue

LOL! We're going to see the movie in "neuveux riche" AK Newport Beach. But, we just visit, for the amenities, don't you know! We don't live there, just visit!

60 Bagua  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:09:57am
61 Kragar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:10:19am

re: #50 HoosierHoops

The background is amazing...After getting dumped from the 147 million dollar movie Halo because of a freud between Sony and Universal..Peter was major motivated to go old school sci-fi script...Reviewers have lauded the first Sci-fi in years that alluded to social issues like the 60's and 70's.
I hear another script is in the works

Blomkamp has two other short films similar to the one which led to District 9 out already.

Yellow

Tetra Vaal

62 Syrah  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:12:08am

re: #8 freetoken

Did everyone know that Yoga can cure swine flu?

Yoga can cure swine flu: Baba Ramdev

/it's moonbat day...

Yoga will only make the Swine Flu more limber.

63 Digital Display  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:12:38am

re: #56 SanFranciscoZionist

Hoos, if we can ask, what kind of dog is Winston?

woops sorry...missed your question..He is a 6 lb Chihuahua...He is a long haired and thinks he is the cock of the walk..A buddy dumped him off on me... With the kids all grown up he fits in just fine...I think he likes it here

64 NelsFree  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:13:28am

...aaand:

2,000 posts!
Woot woot!
*Party Horn*
Now I want to dance the Salsa with Sharmuta!

65 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:13:50am

No True Scotsman would miss this soup du jour

66 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:15:09am

re: #63 HoosierHoops

woops sorry...missed your question..He is a 6 lb Chihuahua...He is a long haired and thinks he is the cock of the walk..A buddy dumped him off on me... With the kids all grown up he fits in just fine...I think he likes it here

Awww. I'd like a place with a pool and my own little boat too.

67 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:15:31am

re: #63 HoosierHoops

woops sorry...missed your question..He is a 6 lb Chihuahua...He is a long haired and thinks he is the cock of the walk..A buddy dumped him off on me... With the kids all grown up he fits in just fine...I think he likes it here

They had the Adopt a Chihuahua people down at Petsmart today...so cute. I ALMOST got one...Mrs. Desert Dog stopped me...she is evil, I tell you, EVIL! (just kidding). I could not stop looking at the little guys.

68 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:16:28am

re: #63 HoosierHoops

And, you love him, like nothing else on this earth. So he's great. HH's dog. Have boat, will float. ( Just watch out for that cannon ball!!!)
;)

69 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:17:09am

re: #64 NelsFree

...aaand:

2,000 posts!
Woot woot!
*Party Horn*
Now I want to dance the Salsa with Sharmuta!

I just hit 1,000. I'm not really sure if that is significant or if it means that I spend too much time in my underwear in front of the computer...

70 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:18:36am

re: #69 austin_blue


Whoa...thank you for that disclosure from the Freedom of Too Much Informaton Act...

71 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:19:22am

re: #69 austin_blue

I just hit 1,000. I'm not really sure if that is significant or if it means that I spend too much time in my underwear in front of the computer...

Although dancing the salsa with Sharmuta does sound attractive. I mean, by her nic alone...

72 Bagua  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:19:26am

re: #69 austin_blue

You really should try to get out of the house more.

73 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:20:46am

re: #70 Fenway_Nation

Whoa...thank you for that disclosure from the Freedom of Too Much Informaton Act...

Well, ya know , it's that 2 AM time of honesty...

74 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:20:47am

OK. Time for me to go to bed. Tomorrow is another day. I hope for it to be the day on which I get my kitchen clean.

75 Digital Display  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:21:28am

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

OK. Time for me to go to bed. Tomorrow is another day. I hope for it to be the day on which I get my kitchen clean.

Weet dreams

76 Bagua  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:22:58am

Good night all.

77 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:24:04am

re: #73 austin_blue

Look...enough about you sitting around in your underwear. Can we talk about Carrie Prejean so I can gratuitously mention that I dated a beauty pageant contestant while in high school? Or Gov. Sanford so that I can gratutiously bring up the out-of-my-league Argentine hottie I hooked up with?

78 NelsFree  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:24:08am

re: #66 SanFranciscoZionist

Awww. I'd like a place with a pool and my own little boat too.

Here you go!

79 Kragar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:25:17am

A love song for the President of Iran

[Link: www.hulu.com...]

80 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:25:42am
81 BignJames  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:26:17am

re: #77 Fenway_Nation

Look...enough about you sitting around in your underwear. Can we talk about Carrie Prejean so I can gratuitously mention that I dated a beauty pageant contestant while in high school? Or Gov. Sanford so that I can gratutiously bring up the out-of-my-league Argentine hottie I hooked up with?


Well, her family has the dough...not him.

82 Digital Display  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:26:23am

Thank God for Twitter! Did you know that Megan Fox had Tuna for lunch today? She hates Salad dressing..
/

83 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:27:02am

re: #81 BignJames

re: #77 Fenway_Nation


Well, her family has the dough...not him.

Hey...I just call him Gov. Count-the-Mistakes

84 NelsFree  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:28:48am

re: #82 HoosierHoops

Thank God for Twitter! Did you know that Megan Fox had Tuna for lunch today? She hates Salad dressing..
/

You mean, THIS
[Link: search.aol.com...]
Megan Fox???
/

85 Kragar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:30:47am

re: #82 HoosierHoops

Thank God for Twitter! Did you know that Megan Fox had Tuna for lunch today? She hates Salad dressing..
/

AMAZING!

/

86 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:31:32am

re: #72 Bagua

You really should try to get out of the house more.

Oh, I do! But this particular summer has been really brutal. Hot, I'm used to. We had 50 days of 100 degrees last summer. Two of them were over 103. Lived with it. This year we have had something over 55 days greater than 100, and 18 have been greater than 103.

We have a Domicile Challenged member of the neighborhood named Monk the Drunk (self appelation), who lives in the East Bouldin Creek Greenbelt and has for years. If you need odd jobs done, Monk is your man. Ran into him the other day and he was looking rough. "Monk, how you doing?", I asked. "Goddam!, sez Monk. "It's hippie killin' hot!!".

Yes it is.

87 BignJames  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:32:47am

re: #83 Fenway_Nation

Hey...I just call him Gov. Count-the-Mistakes


He's not finished, yet.

88 NelsFree  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:33:13am

Well, having surpassed 2001 posts, I must embark on my own little Space Odyssey. Open the Pod Bay Doors, HAL! G'nite all.

89 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:33:48am

re: #77 Fenway_Nation

Look...enough about you sitting around in your underwear. Can we talk about Carrie Prejean so I can gratuitously mention that I dated a beauty pageant contestant while in high school? Or Gov. Sanford so that I can gratutiously bring up the out-of-my-league Argentine hottie I hooked up with?

Oh, absolutely! We are waiting with bated breath.

(Well except for the cat. It is looking smug with Tuna breath.)

90 Digital Display  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:37:14am

re: #89 austin_blue

Oh, absolutely! We are waiting with bated breath.

(Well except for the cat. It is looking smug with Tuna breath.)

What happened to the good old days when a Governor could use the State Police to shuttle in the bad girls? Trips to Central America? Look the way the economy is you have to be looking at the economy of Motel 6.

91 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:38:02am

Out of Africa...all of us, apparently?

African tribe populated rest of the world

Research by geneticists and archaeologists has allowed them to trace the origins of modern homo sapiens back to a single group of people who managed to cross from the Horn of Africa and into Arabia. From there they went on to colonise the rest of the world.

Genetic analysis of modern day human populations in Europe, Asia, Australia, North America and South America have revealed that they are all descended from these common ancestors.

92 ArchangelMichael  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:42:05am

re: #91 Desert Dog

Creationist and racist head-spinning in 4, 3, 2...

93 BatGuano  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:43:02am

re: #91 Desert Dog

I'm an African-American. I knew it. And I'm tired of being hassled by the man!

94 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:45:08am

re: #90 HoosierHoops

What happened to the good old days when a Governor could use the State Police to shuttle in the bad girls? Trips to Central America? Look the way the economy is you have to be looking at the economy of Motel 6.

Ah, the old Texas. Things have changed. I blame it on the New Media.

95 Digital Display  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:45:55am

I can't believe how smart Guth of MIT is...Been watching a special on him on a science channel...He is the guy that explained expansion after the big bang..
How he explains the 4 major forces after the big bang is awesome..He figured out that at 1 second into the explosion the temp was 1 billion degrees..
He draws the timeline out to today..Frigging genius

96 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:48:31am

re: #92 ArchangelMichael

I think there is at least a small percentage of the anti-evolution crowd that opposes the idea for racists reasons.

Accepting that we have a common ancestor with certain primates also means that all human races are directly related by that common ancestor, which I am sure is a pill far too large to swallow for racists of any stripe.

97 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:48:55am

re: #95 HoosierHoops

I can't believe how smart Guth of MIT is...Been watching a special on him on a science channel...He is the guy that explained expansion after the big bang..
How he explains the 4 major forces after the big bang is awesome..He figured out that at 1 second into the explosion the temp was 1 billion degrees..
He draws the timeline out to today..Frigging genius

Science!

But that all happened 6000 years ago so things have cooled down *really* fast.

///

98 ArchangelMichael  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:51:26am

re: #96 Slumbering Behemoth

I think there is at least a small percentage of the anti-evolution crowd that opposes the idea for racists reasons.

Accepting that we have a common ancestor with certain primates also means that all human races are directly related by that common ancestor, which I am sure is a pill far too large to swallow for racists of any stripe.

That's a reason why the Darwinism leads to Nazis and Eugenics argument has always seemed moronic in it's conception to me.

99 ArchangelMichael  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:52:16am

re: #95 HoosierHoops

Why do you hate God!!1!1

/averagebannedidiot

100 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:53:04am
101 Digital Display  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:54:11am

re: #97 austin_blue

Science!

But that all happened 6000 years ago so things have cooled down *really* fast.

///

Guth figured the math so elegantly...We know for a fact that 1 second after the Big bang the temp of the universe was one Billion degrees...
To watch him explain it on the science channel to today was really cool..That dude is smart..Not as smart as Dr. C..but pretty dang smart.

102 BignJames  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:54:37am

re: #91 Desert Dog

Not me...I'm a Scientologist...what's that planet I'm supposed to be from?

103 ArchangelMichael  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:55:50am

re: #102 BignJames

Yiffcon IV

104 Digital Display  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:56:59am

Dark energy is just a code word for our ignorance..
Guth from MIT is a genius

105 BignJames  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:58:21am

re: #103 ArchangelMichael


Aren't they we called Thetans...or something?

106 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:00:03am

re: #100 Desert Dog

Best Commercial Ever?

That's a commercial? I've seen so much of that in real life, I don't even remember what sex without a condom feels like.

/although, to be honest, I am having a hard time remembering what sex with a partner feels like...

107 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:00:20am

re: #101 HoosierHoops

Guth figured the math so elegantly...We know for a fact that 1 second after the Big bang the temp of the universe was one Billion degrees...
To watch him explain it on the science channel to today was really cool..That dude is smart..Not as smart as Dr. C..but pretty dang smart.

Any good teacher (and many scientists are horrible teachers) is a godsend. The problem is that not that many people watch the shows and some of them that do don't believe it. Around 40% of the American population does not really believe in evolution. Guess which party they make up the base for?

108 ArchangelMichael  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:00:29am

re: #105 BignJames

Yeah Thetans. I read somewhere that Xenu's planet was called Yiffcon IV though. Not sure if that's actually really part of Psychoentology or something someone made up in a parody though.

109 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:01:59am

re: #106 Slumbering Behemoth

That's a commercial? I've seen so much of that in real life, I don't even remember what sex without a condom feels like.

/although, to be honest, I am having a hard time remembering what sex with a partner feels like...

Married here...got the "snip" after #3

And, Mrs. Desert Dog still thinks I am "pogi" I am lucky, lucky, lucky!

110 ArchangelMichael  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:02:22am

re: #104 HoosierHoops

Dark energy is just a code word for our ignorance..
Guth from MIT is a genius

One of many codewords to describe the same thing that we don't entirely get...

Dark Energy
Exotic Matter
Averaged Null Energy Condition Violation
Casimir Effect
The Cosmological Constant

111 freetoken  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:02:53am

re: #91 Desert Dog

A long debated subject - how many pulses of H. sapiens made it out of Africa?

BTW, that series (referenced in the article) is available on DVD (as well as on the internet.)

112 BignJames  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:03:36am

re: #108 ArchangelMichael

Yeah Thetans. I read somewhere that Xenu's planet was called Yiffcon IV though. Not sure if that's actually really part of Psychoentology or something someone made up in a parody though.

Kinda' hard to tell the difference.

113 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:04:22am

re: #111 freetoken

A long debated subject - how many pulses of H. sapiens made it out of Africa?

BTW, that series (referenced in the article) is available on DVD (as well as on the internet.)

I looked it up on the BBC website...it aired in May of this year and looks really interesting.

114 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:05:12am

Night all...have fun

115 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:06:01am

re: #108 ArchangelMichael

Yeah Thetans. I read somewhere that Xenu's planet was called Yiffcon IV though. Not sure if that's actually really part of Psychoentology or something someone made up in a parody though.

I just want to earn enough enough money so that I can lay out $10 million so I can I get a ride on the boat! That must be wicked cool!

116 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:08:17am

re: #109 Desert Dog

Congrats on the family, and your luck.

I've never been married, and have never fathered a child, and I am more than happy with that.

Many people have told me I would make a great father. I tell them that they have never seen me tired, cranky, at the end of my rope, and completely ready to lose my shit over the next little thing that irritates me.

Not everyone is cut out to be a spouse and/or a parent.

117 freetoken  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:08:27am

re: #113 Desert Dog

Available from Amazon UK at a very reasonable price:

The Incredible Human Journey [DVD] [2009]

118 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:11:32am

re: #117 freetoken

Available from Amazon UK at a very reasonable price:

The Incredible Human Journey [DVD] [2009]

Interesting. What role do neanderthals play in the film?

119 freetoken  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:12:05am

One of the reviews from the Amazon UK site, for The Incredible Human Journey:

By N. A. Khan "slayerboy" (London, England) - See all my reviews

I watched this with great excitement hoping for some new ground breaking theories and revelations. Having studied Human Evolution a few years ago I found this series a rehash of all the existing evidence and theories that were around then. There was nothing fresh or interesting about this (except the presenter)and I found any theory that Dr Alice didnt agree with she was determined to prove wrong (eg the Homo Erectus in China). Typical scientist and in fact anyone studying human evolution-they have a closed mind and make the evidence fit in with their own theories. The bones they have found are fragmentary and are meshed together to look like 'species' and 'prototype' humans to fit in with this 'theory' that we did come from Apes. Why do you have to force the evidence if it is the truth? The whole field of human evolution is about egos and money and self service and this programme did nothing to aleviate these opinions and impression I have. Very disappointing.

Ooops... I guess the series stepped on somebody's doctrine toes?

120 Digital Display  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:13:26am

re: #110 ArchangelMichael

One of many codewords to describe the same thing that we don't entirely get...

Dark Energy
Exotic Matter
Averaged Null Energy Condition Violation
Casimir Effect
The Cosmological Constant

Dr. C has been struggling with TOE...(Theory of everything) The 4 major forces that separated at the Big Bang cannot be reconciled...Gravity will not join back with the math...Try this...
Gravity equals 9.8 meters per second per second on Earth.. Gravity will kill you..Jump off a building...Yet as strong as gravity is..Take a tiny little magnet and you can pick up a paperclip..just like like...The whole mass of the Earth can't stop the power of a little magnet picking up a paperclip..
The math is maddening..Every movent of any body is space can be explained with math..We just don't know why...

121 freetoken  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:13:43am

re: #118 Sharmuta

Not seen it... just researching it based on the above recommended Telegraph article. From the Telegraph article and the Amazon description, sounds like a pretty straightforward treatment of Neandertals (i.e., H. sapiens displaced them.)

122 freetoken  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:16:07am

re: #110 ArchangelMichael


Dark Energy
Exotic Matter
Averaged Null Energy Condition Violation
Casimir Effect
The Cosmological Constant

Bold faced items are not the same as the other three (which indeed may be different aspects/approaches to one particular phenomenon.)

123 Digital Display  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:16:58am

re: #120 HoosierHoops

Dr. C has been struggling with TOE...(Theory of everything) The 4 major forces that separated at the Big Bang cannot be reconciled...Gravity will not join back with the math...Try this...
Gravity equals 9.8 meters per second per second on Earth.. Gravity will kill you..Jump off a building...Yet as strong as gravity is..Take a tiny little magnet and you can pick up a paperclip..just like like...The whole mass of the Earth can't stop the power of a little magnet picking up a paperclip..
The math is maddening..Every movent of any body is space can be explained with math..We just don't know why...

Maybe every time a lizard posts at 4am LGF forces you to spell check...
dang it!

124 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:18:40am

re: #121 freetoken

Indeed. The article is impressive. The neanderthal co-mingling hypothesis looks SOL.

125 freetoken  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:22:48am

re: #124 Sharmuta

Unless better preserved specimens of neandertals can be found, so that complete DNA can be harvested and sequenced, there will always be questions.

It is always possible that in the very northern reaches of Norway or Russia there may be a body (or body part) still frozen... who knows?

/off to watch some videos...

126 freetoken  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:25:35am

Before I go watch the videos... one piece that ought to have made it in the spin-offs (but I hit my limit of 3):

The Confidence Game

[...]

There is acknowledgement that the US China trade relationship needs to be rebalanced, but little imagination on how to proceed. Deep down, our leaders and policymakers have convinced themselves that for all its flaws, the old system was better than anything we are going to think of, and that simply restoring confidence will fix everything, at least for as long as they remain in office.

The right lesson from Lehman should be that the global financial system needs major changes in regulation and governance. The current safety net approach may work in the short term but will ultimately lead to ballooning and unsustainable government debts, particularly in the US and Europe.

Asia may be willing to sponsor the west for now, but not in perpetuity. Eventually Asia will find alternatives in part by deepening its own debt markets. Within a few years, western governments will have to sharply raise taxes, inflate, partially default, or some combination of all three. As painful as it may seem, it would be far better to start bringing fundamentals in line now. Restoring confidence has been helpful and important. But ultimately we need a system of global financial regulation and governance that merits our faith.

127 Digital Display  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:25:43am

Well I'm never up to see ads at 4:30am on cable...
childfund.org was a powerful charity ad I saw...Very moving...I need to check them out

128 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:46:40am

Adios Lizrdii. Time for a very long schluff.

129 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 1:55:48am

re: #127 HoosierHoops

Well I'm never up to see ads at 4:30am on cable...
childfund.org was a powerful charity ad I saw...Very moving...I need to check them out

Be wary. Request their literature, brochures, etc. If it appears too fancy, uses more that two or three ink colors on the same page (a big deal and big expense in the printing industry), uses multiple techniques in their print material, like foil, embossing, slick (smooth) and textured surfaces on the same cover (also big deal and a big expense in the printing industry), then they are certainly spending more of those donations on advertising their brand than they are on actually helping people. Also, high-quality print stock should be a warning sign.

A lot of these things can be a scam, and they are designed to pull at your heart-strings. You can learn a lot about their true intent simply by viewing the printing sophistication (or lack thereof) of their literature.

130 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:00:02am

Fruitcup! and all that jazz... → → → → →

131 UncleRancher  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:00:52am

Ahhh... Fruitcup!!! Thanks!

132 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:01:12am

UncleRancher! :-)

133 UncleRancher  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:02:19am

Good Morning lol! How are things?

134 freetoken  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:03:15am

re: #130 littleoldlady

Fruitcup! and all that jazz... → → → → →

Fruitcup and Jazz!

135 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:03:37am

F'ing peachy! ;-)

How's by you, Uncle Rancher?

136 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:04:11am

freetoken! :-)

137 UncleRancher  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:05:18am

re: #135 littleoldlady

Great! We had our first "feed" off the corn patch yesterday. About 3 dozen people consumed about 5 dozen ears. Great fun. Hardly made a dent in the corn patch.

138 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:06:44am
We had our first "feed" off the corn patch yesterday

I thought you were talking about DEER.

/you would be if you lived around here...
//what do you do about deer?

139 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:08:43am

re: #130 littleoldlady

Thank you and good night.

{SMOOCH!}

Later Lizards.

140 UncleRancher  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:08:47am

re: #138 littleoldlady

The deer have not touched the corn. They come by and eat the chard down to the ground and if the tomatoes were not behind a very tall fence they would eat those too, but so far no action on the corn. They will eat the corn off the cob if you take the husks off but that's it. We have very pershickety deer.

141 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:11:42am

Slumbering! :-)

142 Syrah  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:12:09am

re: #130 littleoldlady

Fruitcup! and all that jazz... → → → → →

Fruit cup is here!

I will feast then sleep.

A happy Lizard, content that as long as there is Fruit-cup, there is peace and joy in some part of the world.

Many thanks for the Fruit cup.

Goodnight all.

143 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:12:18am

Good golly! TRAINED DEER!

/who knew?!

;-)

144 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:12:59am

Syrah! :-)

My horrorscope said not to pick any fights today...

;-)

145 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:17:05am

Yay! Fruitcup...thanks, LoL...

146 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:17:33am

Fenway! :-)

147 UncleRancher  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:18:09am

Hey Fenway, Top of the morning to you.

148 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:30:51am

tap! tap! tap!

Yo, Fenway! choo-choo!

149 Coquimbojoe  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:32:18am

Hellooo Lizards of the night! Just stopping in for a fruitcup...

150 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:33:16am

JOE! :-) :-) :-)

151 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:33:28am

Sorry...left to make myself a pineapple screwdriver and...well...I'm pretty easily distracted...

152 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:36:14am

re: #151 Fenway_Nation

At least it has fruit in it...

Speaking of which, how's that Fruitcupitron working?

/I'm thinking of retiring

153 BignJames  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:38:48am

re: #138 littleoldlady

I thought you were talking about DEER.

/you would be if you lived around here...
//what do you do about deer?

You mean other than hitting them with my car?

154 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:40:52am

re: #153 BignJames

BignJames! :-)

I'd call it DINNER! except around here they all have ambulance-chasing lawyers...

155 BignJames  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:50:05am

re: #154 littleoldlady


I've known people that have hunted deer for years...and never seen one...I've hit 3 with my car.

156 UncleRancher  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:52:57am

re: #155 BignJames

Winter before last we had deer in the yard every night for a couple of months. One night I counted 19 head. There were just a few last winter.

157 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:53:12am

re: #152 littleoldlady

At least it has fruit in it...

Speaking of which, how's that Fruitcupitron working?

/I'm thinking of retiring


Umm...well...let's just say don't retire yet...

158 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:53:36am

Really like pretty much the entire bibliography, but moral lectures from Huxley...yeahhh. The quality of his moral behaviour and thought seemed to defy his own rule well enough but being elitist somehow better than the rabble. Soviet central planner hoo-ray. Well I guess he ended up a disillusioned Henry Georgian with the good sense to move to the US.
And Julian...yeeesh!

159 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:57:10am

re: #155 BignJames

A few years back talloldman went hunting with the guyz up in the Poconos. Calls me first day of deer season and says, "I didn't see ONE deer today!" (They usually get smart by Day 2, not Day 1.)

While I'm talking to him I'm looking out the kitchen window at FIVE deer. They should have had balloon captions over their heads..."Heh™"

160 BignJames  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:57:42am

re: #156 UncleRancher

There's a fairly large herd that traverses my place in the mornings and evenings, moving from a creek bottom to pastureland and back.

161 UncleRancher  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:57:52am

re: #152 littleoldlady

At least it has fruit in it...

Speaking of which, how's that Fruitcupitron working?

/I'm thinking of retiring

We were feeding the deer in the middle of the winter with a little left over corn. Every night they showed up looking for a hand out. All the neighbors were "helping" them too. So they made the rounds cleaning up all the tidbits.

Feed 'em fruitcup and you get the same effect!

162 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 2:58:56am

re: #155 BignJames

I've known people that have hunted deer for years...and never seen one...I've hit 3 with my car.

163 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:00:35am

Why do disillusioned lefties write the best dystopian novels?

164 UncleRancher  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:00:53am

re: #162 Cannadian Club Akbar

I've missed a few about that close. So far I've been lucky. It does wake you up!

165 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:01:19am

re: #157 Fenway_Nation

This is what happens when you've got a single proprietorship. :-(

re: #161 UncleRancher

Ah. A solution to all the leftovers! :-)

166 BignJames  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:01:56am

re: #159 littleoldlady


I've got a cousin that got up one morning to go deer hunting...as he's getting dressed he sees one in his back yard...eases the window open...and shoots it from his bedroom. His wife was not amused.

167 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:03:10am

re: #166 BignJames

My neighbors would have turned me in...

168 UncleRancher  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:03:10am

re: #166 BignJames

I've got a cousin that got up one morning to go deer hunting...as he's getting dressed he sees one in his back yard...eases the window open...and shoots it from his bedroom. His wife was not amused.

Yup. There was blood and guts everywhere, all over the patio furniture.

169 BignJames  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:04:08am

re: #162 Cannadian Club Akbar


Really...you don't see 'em...next thing you know...they're a hood ornament.

170 BignJames  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:05:48am

re: #167 littleoldlady

My neighbors would have turned me in...


He lives on the edge of Sumter Natl. Forest...and his wife was still asleep.

171 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:07:51am

re: #169 BignJames

Really...you don't see 'em...next thing you know...they're a hood ornament.

We have a road down here I used to travel for work. Wild pigs everywhere. Plus, we were putting in new houses at the time, so we basically took away their homes. Dude on a Harley had a huge boar run into his path. They are both gone now.

172 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:08:32am

re: #170 BignJames

One of my brothers in law lives not too far from here, and his property backs up to a private wooded area.

Thanks to his trusty crossbow he has meat for the entire winter.

/with my luck (and skill) I'd spear my foot! ;-)

173 BignJames  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:10:26am

re: #171 Cannadian Club Akbar


Know a guy that t-boned a mule one night...he lived...mule didn't.

174 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:10:41am

re: #172 littleoldlady

One of my brothers in law lives not too far from here, and his property backs up to a private wooded area.

Thanks to his trusty crossbow he has meat for the entire winter.

/with my luck (and skill) I'd spear my foot! ;-)

Don't do that! You'd be stuck until someone came home!

175 UncleRancher  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:10:45am

re: #169 BignJames

That happens a lot. So far the ones I have avoided I saw because I was looking for them and was ready to hit the brakes. There are certain corridors where the deer are moving up or down a draw and the probability of seeing deer is much higher than any place else. These are not always well marked.

176 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:12:47am

CC Akbar! :-)

Yeah, you're right. I'd get hungry.

/and probably have to pee, too ;-)

177 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:12:48am

re: #175 UncleRancher

That happens a lot. So far the ones I have avoided I saw because I was looking for them and was ready to hit the brakes. There are certain corridors where the deer are moving up or down a draw and the probability of seeing deer is much higher than any place else. These are not always well marked.


They should capture and release deer after painting them with reflective paint.
/

178 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:13:00am

re: #166 BignJames

I've got a cousin that got up one morning to go deer hunting...as he's getting dressed he sees one in his back yard...eases the window open...and shoots it from his bedroom. His wife was not amused.

At work in St. Helens deer came buy the shop all the time. This fucktard there throws some salt licks into the field to bait them in. One day at break he pulls his bow out of his truck and shoots one through the chain link fence. I did not realize what he was doing. Deer know it's not deer season so they wander around without a care and easy prey, but the arrow deflected a little when going through the fence and is a thru and thru really low and it ran off. The bastard goes back to work. I hassled him for about two hours to go finish the poor thing off. Talk about how illegal what he had done finally got him to leave. took him more than five hours to track it down. It was still alive behind some dumpsters in downtown St. Helens.

Tried to give me all this crap about how he really needed the meat and it wasn't really illegal in 10 different way so don't call the cops...

coulda jabbed him in the belly with a fork and dumped him in the woods.

happy ending was his house he was selling in Vernonian got wiped out during the flood before the last flood in Vernonia. It was a day before escrow close and he had dropped the insurance. Karma.

179 BignJames  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:16:35am

re: #172 littleoldlady


I trapped a raccoon that was getting on my porch and eating the dog's food. I called the county Wildlife Agent...he said I couldn't take it somewhere else to let it go...it was illegal...coon might have rabies, and nobody want's your possibly rabid coon. I asked what I should do? He said.."Shoot, Shovel, Silence."

180 BignJames  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:20:15am

re: #178 spidly


Good. Guy's not a hunter...he's a poacher.

181 UncleRancher  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:21:18am

re: #178 spidly

I think I know that place. It's out there northwest of Scappoose isn't it?

182 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:21:39am

re: #179 BignJames

I had friends visiting and their dog was attacked by the neighbors dog. I called animal control and they said I had every right to shoot the dog. She said she couldn't do anything until the next morning. I asked if the reason for not being able to do anything had anything to do with the fact the Super Bowl was on. She said yes. I never capped the dog, but I put a shot right next to a paw.

183 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:23:03am

re: #179 BignJames

At least they were polite about it. I called CritterControl about an obviously sick possum that was in my backyard. "What would you like me to do about it?", the guy says.

I guess I could have been more understanding. This was during the time there were numerous reports of a cougar roaming around in the county. Those poor folks were going nuts trying to follow up on all the calls.

184 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:24:12am

re: #180 BignJames

Good. Guy's not a hunter...he's a poacher.

poacher dick asswipe. Also best buds with the foreman and tangentially related to the owner. so for self preservation and the fact that I wasn't going to get anyone there on my side to prove anything anyway... no cops.

He's assed out in Arizona now paying for a Vernonia house that no longer exists. Or he's filed for bankruptcy. anyway.

185 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:24:21am

re: #181 UncleRancher

I think I know that place. It's out there northwest of Scappoose isn't it?

yep

186 littleoldlady  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:28:45am

That's it for me, folks! I going to try and get some weeding done before it hits 90° today...

Good day, ALL!™

187 BignJames  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:28:56am

re: #183 littleoldlady


Rumor is the Wildlife folks have surrepitiously released cougars in these parts...though I doubt it.

188 UncleRancher  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:31:30am

Have a good one. It's time for some shut-eye so I can deal with all that corn tomorrow. ;-)

189 BignJames  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:32:30am

another one bites the dust.

190 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:33:53am

re: #183 littleoldlady

At least they were polite about it. I called CritterControl about an obviously sick possum that was in my backyard. "What would you like me to do about it?", the guy says.

I guess I could have been more understanding. This was during the time there were numerous reports of a cougar roaming around in the county. Those poor folks were going nuts trying to follow up on all the calls.

They're lifting the dog hunting ban for Cougar here in Oregon. After a few years the kitties got out of hand and I think finally someone influential must have gotten their lhasa apso et or something. Repealed without voter approval.

191 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:35:25am

re: #189 BignJames

I wouldn't worry about Ana, the models have it staying weak and possibly moving into the gulf, but Bill might be looking for you.

[Link: www.baynews9.com...]

192 HelloDare  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:41:43am

re: #134 freetoken

You still around? I replied to a comment you made on the previous thread.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Dyson wrote the foreword to Gold's book in 2001.

193 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:44:03am

re: #192 HelloDare

What is Abiotic oil?

194 HelloDare  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:47:56am

re: #193 Cannadian Club Akbar

Not derived from living organisms. Oil is not a fossil fuel.

195 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:50:44am

re: #194 HelloDare

Not derived from living organisms. Oil is not a fossil fuel.

But it works like regular oil?

196 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:51:59am

re: #193 Cannadian Club Akbar

What is Abiotic oil?


think I had that rubbed all over me in an indonesian brothel...
did I say that out loud?

197 BignJames  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:52:54am

re: #191 Cannadian Club Akbar

I wouldn't worry about Ana, the models have it staying weak and possibly moving into the gulf, but Bill might be looking for you.

[Link: www.baynews9.com...]

We could use the rain from a tropical system.

198 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:54:15am

re: #197 BignJames

We could use the rain from a tropical system.

They think Bill could reach CAT 3, but there is a high pressure system in the Atlantic that could suck it up and send it to its grave.

199 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:54:49am

re: #196 spidly

think I had that rubbed all over me in an indonesian brothel...
did I say that out loud?

That's funny right there. Heh.

200 HelloDare  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:55:01am

re: #195 Cannadian Club Akbar

Gold's theory is that oil, all oil, is not derived from decayed vegetation and dinosaurs.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say. [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

201 gatorbait  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:55:37am

Is it not obvious that a bunch of partisan bastards seek to grab a massive piece of the economy to both create two new mobs of fools: one mob who are more dependent on the state for greater entitlement and a second mob who are employed by the state to feed the first mob. Both mobs love Big Brother and will vote for him and his cronies forever. One State, One Party, One Leader. God help us.

202 BignJames  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:56:11am

re: #198 Cannadian Club Akbar

They think Bill could reach CAT 3, but there is a high pressure system in the Atlantic that could suck it up and send it to its grave.

Yeah...the famed "Bermuda High"

203 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:57:05am

re: #195 Cannadian Club Akbar

But it works like regular oil?

I haven't heard of it before today, but i think it is something akin to the thermolytic depolymerization changing world technologies is doing but is supposedly a natural process?

I don't know fer sure. gotta look it up.

204 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:59:21am

re: #203 spidly

I still want to see what the results of using lasers on a hydrogen molecule like they are doing at Lawrance Livermore Labs in California.

205 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:04:26am

re: #19 Bagua

Steady on man, restrain yourself from doing anything reckless.

What? Like chasing the dogs around the yard in nothing but shorts trying to get a screaming oppossum away from them at 4am with a dying flashlight type reckless?

206 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:04:38am

re: #198 Cannadian Club Akbar

They think Bill could reach CAT 3, but there is a high pressure system in the Atlantic that could suck it up and send it to its grave.


I was in Disneyworld for Fay. Brilliant. I don't think I could have withstood the normal weather which I experienced on the last day there. oppressive humidity.

short lines! summit plummit over and over in 80 degree rain 'til my ass was bruised.

sister is going back this week. I might consider dropping things and joining her if it times out right.

207 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:05:35am

re: #204 Cannadian Club Akbar

I still want to see what the results of using lasers on a hydrogen molecule like they are doing at Lawrance Livermore Labs in California.

If you get it wrong, I think they call the result the sun.

208 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:06:16am

re: #201 gatorbait

My friend works for the skool board and is nearing his 20 years, thus pension. And they are up his ass about every detail. I told him to be careful because they want to keep budgets down and will fire him if they can. He didn't believe me at first, because he was drunk. The next day he asked me to tell him again. Now he is worried. He was going from one job to another and stopped and checked his mail (he was waiting for a big check). 30 seconds at the most. Someone reported him. He got suspended for 2 weeks and is now on probation.

209 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:08:29am

re: #206 spidly

I was in Disneyworld for Fay. Brilliant. I don't think I could have withstood the normal weather which I experienced on the last day there. oppressive humidity.

short lines! summit plummit over and over in 80 degree rain 'til my ass was bruised.

sister is going back this week. I might consider dropping things and joining her if it times out right.

Faye was a slow mover. I went to a friends house the day after it "hit" and it was still there. I said WTF, I thought this thing was gone. Nope.

210 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:08:32am

re: #205 gregb

What? Like chasing the dogs around the yard in nothing but shorts trying to get a screaming oppossum away from them at 4am with a dying flashlight type reckless?

I bet you throw some fun parties.

211 HelloDare  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:09:10am

re: #203 spidly

I haven't heard of it before today, but i think it is something akin to the thermolytic depolymerization changing world technologies is doing but is supposedly a natural process?

I don't know fer sure. gotta look it up.

No, quite the opposite. As I recall, the kind of oil CWT gets from their process is of a different structure than oil found in the earth. The isomers are right-handed when they should be left-handed, or vice versa.

212 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:10:59am

re: #209 Cannadian Club Akbar

Faye was a slow mover. I went to a friends house the day after it "hit" and it was still there. I said WTF, I thought this thing was gone. Nope.

we were there for 10 days, only gone our last day there

213 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:11:43am

re: #182 Cannadian Club Akbar

I had friends visiting and their dog was attacked by the neighbors dog. I called animal control and they said I had every right to shoot the dog. She said she couldn't do anything until the next morning. I asked if the reason for not being able to do anything had anything to do with the fact the Super Bowl was on. She said yes. I never capped the dog, but I put a shot right next to a paw.

I had a pit bull clamp onto one of my dogs in the middle of the night that wouldn't let go no matter how much it was sprayed. My neighbor, retired Anaheim PD, was unholstered and going to put one between the eyes except the guy who was walking it on a papier machete of a leash was laying on top of it begging him not too as my dog was yelping it's butt off. What finally broke them apart was a full can of pepper spray.

It was the talk of the neighborhood for a couple of weeks. Nightime drama, who needs it?

214 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:14:09am

re: #212 spidly

we were there for 10 days, only gone our last day there

We have a tropical storm off the coast near me right now, but it is moving away. Bummer.

215 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:16:13am

re: #214 Cannadian Club Akbar

We have a tropical storm off the coast near me right now, but it is moving away. Bummer.

Ana's going away?

216 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:16:43am

re: #213 gregb

The guy who owned the dog lives right next to me. I have seen the cops looking for him as he hid on top of his house. Luckily, we all have 5 acre lots, so I don't see him.

217 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:18:24am

re: #215 MandyManners

Ana's going away?

No, but it might run over top of Cuba which is a hurricane killer because of the mountains. It could hit the gulf and grow, but it doesn't look good.

218 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:18:27am

5,901.

219 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:19:32am

re: #217 Cannadian Club Akbar

No, but it might run over top of Cuba which is a hurricane killer because of the mountains. It could hit the gulf and grow, but it doesn't look good.

Has Cuba ever been devestated by a hurricane under Castro and have we helped them?

220 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:19:44am

re: #217 Cannadian Club Akbar

No, but it might run over top of Cuba which is a hurricane killer because of the mountains. It could hit the gulf and grow, but it doesn't look good.

cuba's good for something

221 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:22:13am

re: #219 MandyManners

Has Cuba ever been devestated by a hurricane under Castro and have we helped them?

Cuba uses our weather reports out of Miami. I know they have been hit. I am sure we have helped them, but I don't recall anything off the top of my head.

222 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:24:02am

re: #220 spidly

cuba's good for something

Desi Arnaz.

223 freetoken  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:24:20am

re: #192 HelloDare

I replied downstairs.

Be careful, branches can't bear much weight.

224 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:24:44am

re: #222 MandyManners

Desi Arnaz.

Baseball players who defect.

225 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:26:53am

re: #221 Cannadian Club Akbar

Cuba uses our weather reports out of Miami. I know they have been hit. I am sure we have helped them, but I don't recall anything off the top of my head.

I remember we helped Iran after that earthquake in Bam that killed more than 20,000. Didn't we also send a lot of grain to the Soviets after a bad harvest in the 1970s?

226 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:28:36am

re: #225 MandyManners

I remember we helped Iran after that earthquake in Bam that killed more than 20,000. Didn't we also send a lot of grain to the Soviets after a bad harvest in the 1970s?

Iran, yes. Russia, I don't recall. But also, Iran wouldn't accept anything from Israel as far as relief aid.

227 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:30:23am

re: #224 Cannadian Club Akbar

Baseball players who defect.

The Cohiba.

228 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:30:44am

re: #222 MandyManners

Desi Arnaz.

dashing looking mass murderers for idiots to emblazon on t-shirts and newspaper boxes?
yeah so Che was Argentinian, but he got his body count for social justice cred in Cuba.

229 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:31:25am

re: #226 Cannadian Club Akbar

Iran, yes. Russia, I don't recall. But also, Iran wouldn't accept anything from Israel as far as relief aid.

I'm sure that broke the Israelis' hearts.

The grain issue I'm trying to recall was during--IIRC--Carter's term.

230 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:32:11am

re: #228 spidly

dashing looking mass murderers for idiots to emblazon on t-shirts and newspaper boxes?
yeah so Che was Argentinian, but he got his body count for social justice cred in Cuba.

Someone posted buttons that you can buy calling Che a douche, but I couldn't find them online.

231 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:34:38am

re: #228 spidly

dashing looking mass murderers for idiots to emblazon on t-shirts and newspaper boxes?
yeah so Che was Argentinian, but he got his body count for social justice cred in Cuba.

Copacabana.


232 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:35:16am

re: #229 MandyManners

I'm sure that broke the Israelis' hearts.

The grain issue I'm trying to recall was during--IIRC--Carter's term.

Also, during the Tsunami a few years ago, Americans gave more money for aid through the Red Cross then the gubment did. I know I made my contribution, then sent my email reciept to everyone I knew. One of my friends gave $1 more then I did, just to be an asshole. But he gave when he normally wouldn't think about it.

233 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:36:47am

re: #230 Cannadian Club Akbar

Someone posted buttons that you can buy calling Che a douche, but I couldn't find them online.

An LGF spinoff Che-Mickey

234 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:37:05am

This is the CIA document discussing the situation in 1964.

[Link: www.faqs.org...]

235 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:37:48am

re: #232 Cannadian Club Akbar

Also, during the Tsunami a few years ago, Americans gave more money for aid through the Red Cross then the gubment did. I know I made my contribution, then sent my email reciept to everyone I knew. One of my friends gave $1 more then I did, just to be an asshole. But he gave when he normally wouldn't think about it.

Yet Holdren calls us the greediest nation.

236 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:37:48am

re: #231 MandyManners

Copacabana.

[Video]

not sure if Barry or Cuba should be nuked for that one

237 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:39:16am

re: #235 MandyManners

Yet Holdren calls us the greediest nation.

Holdren is an angry little bitch. Fuck him. I wonder how much he gives to charity.

238 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:40:57am

Not greediest but, stingiest. Same thing.
But the intervening years have not been pleasant ones for such as Holdren. In a 1995 article co-written with Paul Ehrlich, he lists among the factors preventing a "sustainable" world such "Underlying human frailties" as "Greed, selfishness, intolerance, and shortsightedness." These, he expounds, "collectively have been elevated by conservative political doctrine and practice (above all in the United States in 1980 92) to the status of a credo."

Holdren blasted his country last January before the AAAS as "the stingiest among all" wealthy nations in its development of the Third World, making us "the meanest of wealthy countries." He summed up his view of the U.S. budget by favorably quoting Robert Kates: "Too much for warfare, too little for welfare."

239 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:41:33am

re: #236 spidly

not sure if Barry or Cuba should be nuked for that one

I figured someone would wanna' nuke me for posting that.

240 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:42:27am

re: #235 MandyManners

Yet Holdren calls us the greediest nation.

Yeah. The guy who speculated about putting sterilizing drugs in the public water supply has how many kids?

Five.

Count 'em.

morning lizards.

241 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:42:45am

re: #238 MandyManners

Guess he didn't hear about the 15 billion Bush gave to Africa for Aids medicines and education.

242 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:43:39am

re: #237 Cannadian Club Akbar

Holdren is an angry little bitch. Fuck him. I wonder how much he gives to charity.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's very little. From the link in my No. 238, he sounds like the kind who wants to destroy private charity in exchange for more government aid.

243 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:45:26am

re: #242 MandyManners

I wouldn't be surprised if it's very little. From the link in my No. 238, he sounds like the kind who wants to destroy private charity in exchange for more government aid.

Zero already hinted at that, dropping tax write offs for charity. Plus, see the cash for clunkers. Many of those cars could be useful to poorer people.

244 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:47:12am

re: #240 wahabicorridor

Yeah. The guy who speculated about putting sterilizing drugs in the public water supply has how many kids?

Five.

Count 'em.

morning lizards.

But, he's a special science guy! Breeding for the cognoscenti is to be encouraged.

BTW, are the elite in China bound by the one-child law?

245 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:48:18am

re: #241 Cannadian Club Akbar

Guess he didn't hear about the 15 billion Bush gave to Africa for Aids medicines and education.

It doesn't fit the meme.

246 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:50:02am

re: #243 Cannadian Club Akbar

Zero already hinted at that, dropping tax write offs for charity. Plus, see the cash for clunkers. Many of those cars could be useful to poorer people.

That idea stirred up a lot of people during the early days of the administration. IIRC, the idea wasn't to drop it altogether but restrict it somewhat. Either way, it was an indication of FCBBHO's desire for a nanny state. I see this "reform" in the same light.

247 callahan23  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:50:13am

re: #233 spidly

An LGF spinoff Che-Mickey

Drive-by comment:
The design of the Che-Mickey-Mouse is from The Dissident Frogman his blog and this topic.
IIRC

248 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:51:37am

re: #244 MandyManners

BTW, are the elite in China bound by the one-child law?

Actually, I believe they are. I've worked with some people from mainland China and asked them that very question, got an "Oh, absolutely' answer.

Whether or not it's true is anyone's guess, but the people I knew believe it to be true.

249 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:53:02am

re: #248 wahabicorridor

Actually, I believe they are. I've worked with some people from mainland China and asked them that very question, got an "Oh, absolutely' answer.

Whether or not it's true is anyone's guess, but the people I knew believe it to be true.

And if the offspring isn't the sex you wanted the child to be, there are programs in place to help.

250 freetoken  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:53:36am

HelloDare - if you are still here... I wrote an even longer entry downstairs, regarding Dyson.

251 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:53:43am

re: #238 MandyManners

Yeahhh... Holdren.
Don't wonder about those end of life talks in HR3200 whatsoever, we've got this guy advising the president and his views not eerily similar to any disgusting people in the past. Schtoopid Deathers! Turn over your medical care, he's here to help.

252 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:55:12am

re: #243 Cannadian Club Akbar

Zero already hinted at that, dropping tax write offs for charity. Plus, see the cash for clunkers. Many of those cars could be useful to poorer people.

I saw a really strange temporary license plate the other day on the back of a Scion XB. While others have just the number and a bit of small print, this tag was filled with print and it had the words along the lines of "FOR THE STATE OF [BLAH]". Was this a car purchased under the CFC program?

253 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:56:44am

re: #248 wahabicorridor

Actually, I believe they are. I've worked with some people from mainland China and asked them that very question, got an "Oh, absolutely' answer.

Whether or not it's true is anyone's guess, but the people I knew believe it to be true.

If true, it sounds like they're true believers.

254 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:56:54am

re: #252 MandyManners

Could have been.

255 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:57:55am

re: #251 spidly

Yeahhh... Holdren.
Don't wonder about those end of life talks in HR3200 whatsoever, we've got this guy advising the president and his views not eerily similar to any disgusting people in the past. Schtoopid Deathers! Turn over your medical care, he's here to help.

That stuff worries me but, not as much as his more recent statements and writings in the FrontPage article.

256 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:59:17am

re: #249 Cannadian Club Akbar

And if the offspring isn't the sex you wanted the child to be, there are programs in place to help.

One of those unintended consequences of mandating human behavior is that villages are loaded with men who can find no one to marry.

257 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:59:39am

re: #244 MandyManners

But, he's a special science guy! Breeding for the cognoscenti is to be encouraged.

BTW, are the elite in China bound by the one-child law?

Holdren and Zeke will take care of you, you decentralized limited government free-market nazi.

258 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 4:59:44am

re: #254 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'd never seen anything like it before.

259 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:00:10am

re: #249 Cannadian Club Akbar

And if the offspring isn't the sex you wanted the child to be, there are programs in place to help.

I get a kick out of the pundits saying China will overtake the US as the world's superpower.

The demographics are horrific. Far too many men who will never be able to marry due to lack of females. The water issues are beyond fixing which bodes ill for agriculture and dense population in metropolitan areas.

I just laugh. They've grown fast but it isn't sustainable.

260 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:00:11am

re: #255 MandyManners

That stuff worries me but, not as much as his more recent statements and writings in the FrontPage article.

I haven't seen that

261 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:01:24am

re: #255 MandyManners

That stuff worries me but, not as much as his more recent statements and writings in the FrontPage article.


missed that article. got a link?

262 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:02:31am

re: #252 MandyManners

I saw a really strange temporary license plate the other day on the back of a Scion XB. While others have just the number and a bit of small print, this tag was filled with print and it had the words along the lines of "FOR THE STATE OF [BLAH]". Was this a car purchased under the CFC program?

we had some dealers around here sending cars off with dealer plates because the gummint checks weren't coming. They wanted to be able to take the cars back without them being considered used. Maybe dealers plate?

263 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:02:42am

re: #257 spidly

Holdren and Zeke will take care of you, you decentralized limited government free-market nazi.

Reading Ezekiel's article in the Hasting Center publication* shocked me--talk about denial of care to those who are not productive citizens.

*This idea was also featured in one of his books. A Lizard printed an excerpt. I'll try to find it.

264 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:03:10am

re: #260 spidly

I haven't seen that

[Link: www.frontpagemag.com...]

265 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:03:24am

re: #261 wahabicorridor

missed that article. got a link?

[Link: www.frontpagemag.com...]

266 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:03:58am

re: #262 spidly

we had some dealers around here sending cars off with dealer plates because the gummint checks weren't coming. They wanted to be able to take the cars back without them being considered used. Maybe dealers plate?

No, this was not a dealer plate. It was paper.

267 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:04:47am

re: #263 MandyManners

Reading Ezekiel's article in the Hasting Center publication* shocked me--talk about denial of care to those who are not productive citizens.

*This idea was also featured in one of his books. A Lizard printed an excerpt. I'll try to find it.

Don't want that crapstick near my schul. WTF is up with that! You think he'd see the irony?

268 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:05:44am

re: #263 MandyManners

Reading Ezekiel's article in the Hasting Center publication* shocked me--talk about denial of care to those who are not productive citizens.

*This idea was also featured in one of his books. A Lizard printed an excerpt. I'll try to find it.

It was an article, not a book.

The Lancet, Volume 373, Issue 9661, Pages 423 - 431, 31 January 2009.

269 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:06:37am

re: #265 MandyManners

thank you - reading now and bookmarked in my 'czars' folder

270 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:07:02am

re: #267 spidly

Don't want that crapstick near my schul. WTF is up with that! You think he'd see the irony?

It takes a lot for my jaw to drop to my knees but, my jaw did drop reading his stuff. Has he no sense of history?

271 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:07:44am

re: #269 wahabicorridor

thank you - reading now and bookmarked in my 'czars' folder

I'm back up to near my 2,500 limit in my links.

272 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:08:35am

re: #270 MandyManners

It takes a lot for my jaw to drop to my knees but, my jaw did drop reading his stuff. Has he no sense of history?

nope, and Jewish no less. fucking retard.

273 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:09:25am

re: #272 spidly

nope, and Jewish no less. fucking retard.

His own brother Rahm was in the IDF.

274 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:09:43am

re: #270 MandyManners

It takes a lot for my jaw to drop to my knees but, my jaw did drop reading his stuff. Has he no sense of history?

never again! unless I'm in charge...

275 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:11:34am

re: #273 MandyManners

His own brother Rahm was in the IDF.

thinking he and Rahm are a candidates for striking from the book of life...well maybe a bit harsh for now.

276 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:15:07am

maybe we'll get David Duke as "Racial Relations Czar"
good a choice as any made thus far

277 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:15:28am

re: #275 spidly

thinking he and Rahm are a candidates for striking from the book of life...well maybe a bit harsh for now.

I didn't know they had a brother, Ari.

278 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:16:43am

re: #210 MandyManners

I bet you throw some fun parties.

I could probably make a mean pineapple screwdriver (just by guessing what the ingredients might be).

279 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:17:42am

re: #277 MandyManners

I didn't know they had a brother, Ari.

big family of crapsticks
Ari could be mini-prop czar with his hollywood connections

280 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:18:08am

re: #277 MandyManners

I didn't know they had a brother, Ari.

Living in Florida, we get spring training baseball. When I waited tables, agents would be with young kids, 18-21 or so, trying to be their agent. They are whores.

281 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:20:04am
282 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:20:11am

Here is the Hasting Center article from 1996.

[Link: findarticles.com...]

283 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:20:56am

re: #278 gregb

I could probably make a mean pineapple screwdriver (just by guessing what the ingredients might be).

Another good use of pineapple is Cutty Sark.

284 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:21:11am

re: #279 spidly

big family of crapsticks
Ari could be mini-prop czar with his hollywood connections

Shhh.

285 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:23:24am

re: #283 MandyManners

Another good use of pineapple is Cutty Sark.

Didn't Ted Turner own Cutty Sark at one time?

286 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:23:39am

re: #280 Cannadian Club Akbar

Living in Florida, we get spring training baseball. When I waited tables, agents would be with young kids, 18-21 or so, trying to be their agent. They are whores.

I don't know if I'd go that far.

287 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:24:38am

re: #284 MandyManners

Shhh.

yes, I should stop being such a radical divisive deather. I should accept half of what they say and come to some moderately eugenic compromise with them.

288 The Left  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:25:34am

re: #256 MandyManners

One of those unintended consequences of mandating human behavior is that villages are loaded with men who can find no one to marry.

Quite true. There are various other problems as a result as well. I forget what the stats are about the gender breakdown, but there's a horrifying imbalance-- and it's as a result of female infanticide, sex-selective abortion, and the value placed on having a male heir.

289 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:26:32am

re: #285 Cannadian Club Akbar

Didn't Ted Turner own Cutty Sark at one time?

I have no idea.

Remember Captain Planet and the Planeteers?

290 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:27:10am

re: #281 SasquatchOnSteroids

Where My Money, Kid ?

that's the caption of the week

291 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:27:27am

re: #286 MandyManners

I don't know if I'd go that far.

Drew Rosenhaus had Eric Rhette for the Bucs hold out for a new contract. By the time he started playing again, Rhette lost abilities. I don't think he played for to long after that. But I am sure Drew took care of him. Not.

292 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:28:05am

re: #287 spidly

yes, I should stop being such a radical divisive deather. I should accept half of what they say and come to some moderately eugenic compromise with them.

I'll give Ari props for his dislike of Mel Gibson but, if he did make that statement about African-Americans, I lose all appreciation.

293 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:28:47am

re: #232 Cannadian Club Akbar

Also, during the Tsunami a few years ago, Americans gave more money for aid through the Red Cross then the gubment did. I know I made my contribution, then sent my email reciept to everyone I knew. One of my friends gave $1 more then I did, just to be an asshole. But he gave when he normally wouldn't think about it.

I think the money wasn't important, but the actual implementation of the worldwide early warning system. It's an amazing piece of technology and operational system. They finally finished the global deployment fairlly recently. When they had the big shakes on Aug 10th, I found a wealth of info on it. Outside of the RTC and DARPA, probably one of the most successful government programs ever.

[Link: www.magazine.noaa.gov...]

294 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:29:36am

re: #288 iceweasel

Quite true. There are various other problems as a result as well. I forget what the stats are about the gender breakdown, but there's a horrifying imbalance-- and it's as a result of female infanticide, sex-selective abortion, and the value placed on having a male heir.

This is what worries me about a government that decides which people are productive, therefore worthy of life.

295 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:30:08am

re: #293 gregb

True, but the conversation was about Eric Holder calling Americans greedy.

296 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:30:26am

re: #293 gregb

I think the money wasn't important, but the actual implementation of the worldwide early warning system. It's an amazing piece of technology and operational system. They finally finished the global deployment fairlly recently. When they had the big shakes on Aug 10th, I found a wealth of info on it. Outside of the RTC and DARPA, probably one of the most successful government programs ever.

[Link: www.magazine.noaa.gov...]

Wasn't Pres. Bush blamed for the tsunami?

297 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:30:51am

re: #289 MandyManners

I have no idea.

Remember Captain Planet and the Planeteers?

Oooh! You trying to rile me up! I had custody of my little ex-brothers-in-law for a couple years and they loved Captain Greenie Meenie. Had all the toys from Burger King. I actually watched it one day and the evil oil guy was purposefully dumping oil into the sea to screw up the environment.
Forbade them from watching it anymore and tried to explain why it was so effed up to them. 1st and 3rd graders though so I was just a dick.

298 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:32:36am

re: #295 Cannadian Club Akbar

True, but the conversation was about Eric Holder calling Americans greedy.

*pssst*

You have your appointees mixed up--Eric Holder is the AG. John Holdren is the "science" guy.

299 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:33:39am

re: #297 spidly

Oooh! You trying to rile me up! I had custody of my little ex-brothers-in-law for a couple years and they loved Captain Greenie Meenie. Had all the toys from Burger King. I actually watched it one day and the evil oil guy was purposefully dumping oil into the sea to screw up the environment.
Forbade them from watching it anymore and tried to explain why it was so effed up to them. 1st and 3rd graders though so I was just a dick.

Well, good for you for taking an unpopular stand.

300 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:34:01am

re: #298 MandyManners

*pssst*

You have your appointees mixed up--Eric Holder is the AG. John Holdren is the "science" guy.

My bad, but I have you as my wing girl, so it's all good:)

301 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:36:54am

re: #300 Cannadian Club Akbar

My bad, but I have you as my wing girl, so it's all good:)

It's easy to get FCBBHO's appointees mixed up. Both of the ones in question have made hateful statments about Americans/America. Holdren says we're stingy. Holder says we're cowards.

302 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:37:58am

re: #301 MandyManners

It's easy to get FCBBHO's appointees mixed up. Both of the ones in question have made hateful statments about Americans/America. Holdren says we're stingy. Holder says we're cowards.

And Kanye West said George Bush hates black people.

303 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:40:56am

re: #302 Cannadian Club Akbar

And Kanye West said George Bush hates black people.

Eh. He's an attention-whore and would be no matter the color of his skin.

304 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:41:40am

re: #292 MandyManners

I'll give Ari props for his dislike of Mel Gibson but, if he did make that statement about African-Americans, I lose all appreciation.

Hell, I give Mel 1/3 of a pass for being pretty much insane even when he's not loaded. Push it up to half a pass for growing up with that dad of his. Sean Penn gets a full pass from me for all his lefty sins including his anti-semitism because he's just sooo fucking stooopid I don't think he even realizes what he's saying, plus he's somehow a damn fine actor - empty skull for writers and directors to fill?

305 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:43:43am

re: #304 spidly

Penn is an anti-semite? Really?

306 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:44:47am

Hole in sidewalk falls into black hole

Unremarkable story, but illustrative.
Your healthcare in a nutshell. When the gov't runs anything, it ends up like this.

This is a story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody. There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it. Somebody got angry about that, because it was Everybody's job. Everybody thought Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it. It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done!

307 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:44:57am

re: #297 spidly

Oooh! You trying to rile me up! I had custody of my little ex-brothers-in-law for a couple years and they loved Captain Greenie Meenie. Had all the toys from Burger King. I actually watched it one day and the evil oil guy was purposefully dumping oil into the sea to screw up the environment.
Forbade them from watching it anymore and tried to explain why it was so effed up to them. 1st and 3rd graders though so I was just a dick.

I ridiculed him off my television. I watched an episode with the kids, and pointed out that he was a "superhero" whose job was to fight pollution - but his superpowers are weakened to the point of wet toilet paper when he's exposed to...pollutants!

Even at six and nine, this sort of logic was compelling enough to relegate the Captain and his team of environmental dorksters to oblivion with the dreaded words, "That show's stupid."

Heh. The power is mine.

308 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:47:54am

re: #304 spidly

Hell, I give Mel 1/3 of a pass for being pretty much insane even when he's not loaded. Push it up to half a pass for growing up with that dad of his. Sean Penn gets a full pass from me for all his lefty sins including his anti-semitism because he's just sooo fucking stooopid I don't think he even realizes what he's saying, plus he's somehow a damn fine actor - empty skull for writers and directors to fill?

Penn's an anti-Semite?

309 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:49:16am

re: #305 wahabicorridor

Penn is an anti-semite? Really?

yes and no. down in venezuela supporting Chavez while Chavez rails on about about Jooos and big Jooo conspiracy. guilt by association and failure to denounce.

310 The Left  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:51:21am

re: #294 MandyManners

This is what worries me about a government that decides which people are productive, therefore worthy of life.

I get what you're saying, but feel obliged to point out that US health care reform wouldn't do that.

BTW, Mandy, you might like this book, if you haven't read it?

May You Be the Mother of a Hundred Sons: A Journey Among the Women of India


The overall powerlessness of Indian women is shown through a discussion of traditions and portraits of typical individuals. "Based on Bumiller's four-year residence in India, this perceptive, alert travelogue considers the prevalent custom of arranged marriage, India's scattered, budding feminist movement, population control, female infanticide

"

The author, Elisabeth Bumiller, does do a lot of (bad) reporting for the NY Times now, but this is from years ago.-- i guess when she was still good. I hardly remember it but do remember liking it, and I know you're into women's issues, especially DV issues worldwide.

311 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:52:30am

re: #309 spidly

yes and no. down in venezuela supporting Chavez while Chavez rails on about about Jooos and big Jooo conspiracy. guilt by association and failure to denounce.

His luv for Chavez was the first thing to pop into my mind.

313 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:54:00am

re: #310 iceweasel

I get what you're saying, but feel obliged to point out that US health care reform wouldn't do that.

Have you read Emanuel's writings on that very subject?

As for the book, I've not read it.

314 kynna  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:57:48am

re: #312 FrogMarch

HI all.
There has been no increase in the number of security threats to President Barack Obama despite the contentious town hall meetings taking place around the country, according to the White House.

Well, that doesn't fit the narrative.

Nope, it sure doesn't. Hey look! A unicorn!

"Whew -- that was a close one" /msm

315 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 5:58:31am

re: #312 FrogMarch

Bush's fault.

316 Gang of One  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:00:43am

Good morning all. Wanted to share this, as I'd seen it around over the years in one variation or another. Then, my BIL sent it last night. Any synchronicity?


It was the first day of school in the USA for a new Indian student named
Chandrasekhar Subramanian who was entering the fourth grade.
The teacher said, "Let's begin by reviewing some American History. Who said
'Give me Liberty or give me Death'?"
She saw a sea of blank faces, except for Chandrasekhar, who had his hand up.
"Patrick Henry, in 1775," he said..
"Very good! Who said 'Government of the People, by the People, for the
People, shall not perish from the Earth'?"
Again, no response except from Chandrasekhar.. "Abraham Lincoln, in 1863,"
said Chandrasekhar.
The teacher snapped at the class, "Class, you should be ashamed...
Chandrasekhar, who is new to our country, knows more about its history than
you do."
She heard a loud whisper, "Damn those Indians."
"Who said that?" she demanded.
Chandrasekhar put his hand up. "General Custer, in 1862."
At that point, a student in the back said, "I'm gonna puke."
The teacher glares around and asks, "All right! Now, who said that..???"
Again, Chandrasekhar says, "George Bush to the Japanese Prime Minister, in
1991."
Now furious, another student yells, "Oh yeah? Suck this...!!!"
Chandrasekhar jumps out of his chair waving his hand and shouts to the
teacher, "Bill Clinton, to Monica Lewinsky, in 1997..!!"
Now with almost mob hysteria someone said, "You little shit. If you say
anything else, I'll kill you."
Chandrasekhar frantically yells at the top of his voice, "Michael Jackson
to the child witnesses testifying against him, in 2004."
The teacher fainted.
And as the class gathered around the teacher on the floor, someone said,
"Oh crap, we're screwed!"
AND CHANDRASEKHAR SAID QUIETLY, I THINK IT WAS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE,...
NOVEMBER 4, 2008."
317 kynna  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:00:55am

re: #311 MandyManners

His luv for Chavez was the first thing to pop into my mind.

I had a conversation with my FiL (an Obamabot) yesterday about Chavez and he seems to feel that Chavez is an isolated case of a simple crazy guy. It's the oil money that caused it. This is how he twists his mind around the acceptance of socialism. Isolated cases caused by something else.

318 The Left  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:01:33am

re: #313 MandyManners

Have you read Emanuel's writings on that very subject?

As for the book, I've not read it.

No. I've read the various proposed bills though.

I think you might like the book. I should reread it myself; it was years ago that I did.

Indian friend of mine who came to the US for college and stayed for work recently married an Indian guy who had done the same. They seemed like the same sort of people-- from the same sort of families back in India, very similar education (both went to Ivies, both had prestigous, high paying jobs in the US)-- they had a baby (boy) and her husband suddenly turned into a different person. Horrific abuse and he tried to take the child away. All of this instigated and abetted by his own mother-- who is very traditional.

There's still court cases pending. He's tried to steal the child and take him to India to hide him forever.

Anyway, it's been a very illuminating experience in terms of how certain misogynistic cultures can retain a grip on a person's psyche-- even when he leaves the country and appears to have embraced different values. Definitely made me want to reread the book.

319 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:03:47am

re: #317 kynna

I had a conversation with my FiL (an Obamabot) yesterday about Chavez and he seems to feel that Chavez is an isolated case of a simple crazy guy. It's the oil money that caused it. This is how he twists his mind around the acceptance of socialism. Isolated cases caused by something else.

Oil money causes insanity? Wowza. Why isn't Canada filled with despots?

320 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:04:24am

re: #311 MandyManners

His luv for Chavez was the first thing to pop into my mind.

His defense of Chavez despite being completely aware of his Jooo hatred and doubling down when being called on it - kinda pushes it to the yes column...and he's part Jewish somewhere I think. But then he does make Barbie Boxer look smart and I'm pretty sure he should not be living unassisted.

321 Killian Bundy  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:05:04am

Dealers wait for 'cash for clunkers' payments

A growing number of auto dealers say the process of getting paid under the government's "cash for clunkers" plan increasingly resembles some of the wrecks accumulating on their lots as part of the program.

The slow payments coming from the federal government are reinforcing the paradoxical nature of the program for dealers: It has generated the most showroom traffic they have had in months while at the same time heaping unease, frustration and worry onto the industry's worst-ever downturn.

As of the close of business Friday, there was talk in the industry that some dealers are considering pulling out of the clunkers program altogether.

"A number of dealers have floated $100,000 to upwards of $1 million or more" on the clunkers program, said Bill Sepic, president of the Wisconsin Automobile & Truck Dealers Association.

Dealers say they want to see at least some sign that they will be able to recoup that money. Still others need the money to pay bills and meet payroll.

"This is not a Wisconsin problem," Sepic added. "This is going on across the country.

/I'm sure the government will do a much better job with health care

322 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:06:47am

re: #318 iceweasel

The link to the Hasting Center article.

[Link: findarticles.com...]

The link to the LGF post about The Lancet article.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

323 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:07:20am

re: #321 Killian Bundy

Dealers wait for 'cash for clunkers' payments


/I'm sure the government will do a much better job with health care

I know the gubment will do fine. My TV said so.
/

324 The Left  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:07:54am

re: #322 MandyManners

Yeah, I still don't care.

He's not writing the health care legislation and he's not voting on it.

325 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:08:44am

re: #320 spidly

His defense of Chavez despite being completely aware of his Jooo hatred and doubling down when being called on it - kinda pushes it to the yes column...and he's part Jewish somewhere I think. But then he does make Barbie Boxer look smart and I'm pretty sure he should not be living unassisted.

I saw him in Mystic River on AMC a while back. Amazing performance.

326 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:09:04am

re: #321 Killian Bundy

Dealers wait for 'cash for clunkers' payments

/I'm sure the government will do a much better job with health care

When you're sick, time is critical.
When you're the gubmint, it's hurry up and wait.
Those 2 things do not go well together.

327 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:09:15am

re: #319 MandyManners

Oil money causes insanity? Wowza. Why isn't Canada filled with despots?

gotta love that social justice. the "peoples oil" sells for 80 bucks a barrel, 60 goes into the malignant trolls pocket, 20 to the people that they might pay for production costs. Viva la revolucion!

328 Afrocity  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:11:09am

Morning Lizards. I see Obama is in campaign mode again. I was wondering when he would use "toot" to his advantage. As if those opposed to nationalized health care have never lost anyone.

Did he really watch "toot" deteriorate? Wasn't he in Chicago for most of the time. When she died didn't he fail to go back to Hawaii for her memorial?

329 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:11:16am

re: #324 iceweasel

Yeah, I still don't care.

He's not writing the health care legislation and he's not voting on it.

He has direct input into the legislation as health-policy adviser at the OMB. He also is a member of the Federal Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research. To my knowledge, comparative effectiveness is code for rationing.

330 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:12:53am

re: #327 spidly

gotta love that social justice. the "peoples oil" sells for 80 bucks a barrel, 60 goes into the malignant trolls pocket, 20 to the people that they might pay for production costs. Viva la revolucion!

Speaking of malignant trolls, I heard on NPR yesterday that China has fired the head of its program to build reactors for taking bribes and other things. I wonder if he'll be executed.

331 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:14:12am

re: #328 Afrocity

Morning Lizards. I see Obama is in campaign mode again. I was wondering when he would use "toot" to his advantage. As if those opposed to nationalized health care have never lost anyone.

Did he really watch "toot" deteriorate? Wasn't he in Chicago for most of the time. When she died didn't he fail to go back to Hawaii for her memorial?

If "Toot" is his granny, the memorial was delayed so that he could attend.

332 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:14:21am

re: #330 MandyManners

Speaking of malignant trolls, I heard on NPR yesterday that China has fired the head of its program to build reactors for taking bribes and other things. I wonder if he'll be executed.

probably just wasn't kicking up.

333 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:14:30am

re: #330 MandyManners

Speaking of malignant trolls, I heard on NPR yesterday that China has fired the head of its program to build reactors for taking bribes and other things. I wonder if he'll be executed.

Obamas reelection committee. Paid advisor.

334 bbuddha  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:14:49am

Good Morning all. I see it looks like the takeover of our health care is still up for discussion
321 Killian Bundy
Yeah, couldn't see that coming
/

335 The Left  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:15:23am

re: #329 MandyManners

He has direct input into the legislation as health-policy adviser at the OMB. He also is a member of the Federal Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research. To my knowledge, comparative effectiveness is code for rationing.

BTW, I just looked at that article.

It's a perfectly normal article on bioethics. Discussion of alternatives does not = endorsement. I'm not finding anything in it to be shocking or scary-- even if this guy were in a position to make policy, which he is not.

His conclusion is one I think republicans and conservatives would endorse as well:

Clearly, more needs to be done to elucidate what specific health care services are basic; however, the overlap between liberalism and communitarianism points to a way of introducing the good back into medical ethics and devising a principled way of distinguishing basic from discretionary health care services. Perhaps using this progress in political philosophy we can begin to address Dan's challenge, begin to discuss the goods and goals of medicine.

336 Afrocity  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:15:58am

re: #331 MandyManners

There was a memorial that he did not attend. It was on CNN. I think his sister was there.

337 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:17:19am

re: #332 spidly

probably just wasn't kicking up.

I don't know. China seems to be intent on building a bunch more reactors by 2020. I hope they succeed.

338 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:18:03am

never sold on the Penn/Madonna domestic abuse charges. Aside from them both being fairly untrustworthy freaks, I think Madonna coulda kicked his ass in a heartbeat.

339 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:19:04am

re: #336 Afrocity

There was a memorial that he did not attend. It was on CNN. I think his sister was there.

Imagine if the media frenzy if Bush hadn't gone?

340 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:20:08am

CzarCzarLeftyCzarLeftyLeftyCzarCzar

I do not like your Lefty Czar
I do not like my crap green car
I do not him for his Sham
I do not like him Sam I Am

341 spidly  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:20:24am

ugh. more defending of the indefensible. I should actually get some sleep anyway. have fun rationalizing.

342 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:21:34am

It's a gorgeous day.
I'm going to go enjoy it.

Have fun.

343 The Left  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:22:36am

Oi, b-h, I owe you an answer from the other day...give me a few minutes and I will, back down there. :)

344 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:23:40am

re: #330 MandyManners

Speaking of malignant trolls, I heard on NPR yesterday that China has fired the head of its program to build reactors for taking bribes and other things. I wonder if he'll be executed.

Hi Mandy.
Corruption and bribery are nothing new under the Chinese Government sun.
Pretty much standard operating procedure. Especially with environmental controls.

345 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:24:00am

re: #339 FrogMarch

Imagine if the media frenzy if Bush hadn't gone?

pimf

346 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:24:23am

Good morning y'all - from a warm (72 degrees and humid going up to 84 degrees) and overcast Charlotte!

I'd like to apologize for some of my comments on the ABC thead last night. They should never have been written and I'm sorry if I offended anyone with them, especially my #749.
I'd also like to know if a commenter nic named DEnforcer is around this morning and his sidekick (who updinged him, nic named JohnnyCache) are around. You posted and updinged less than two hours ago and I'd like to, ah, chat with you about your timing.
I'm doing not-so-hot this morning but Mom is doing ok.
I hope everyone out here is feeling well this morning!

347 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:24:23am

Gotta' finish getting The Kid ready for church. bbiab

348 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:27:05am

re: #244 MandyManners

But, he's a special science guy! Breeding for the cognoscenti is to be encouraged.

BTW, are the elite in China bound by the one-child law?

the elite in China don't want more than one child.

Having 9 kids of my own, who are breeding like jackrabbits, my family stands ready to take over the entire Elders of Zion.

Heh.

349 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:29:56am

re: #328 Afrocity

Morning Lizards. I see Obama is in campaign mode again. I was wondering when he would use "toot" to his advantage. As if those opposed to nationalized health care have never lost anyone.

Did he really watch "toot" deteriorate? Wasn't he in Chicago for most of the time. When she died didn't he fail to go back to Hawaii for her memorial?

I'm also just not seeing the point. OK, he watched granny die. So what? He seems to be making an attempt to marginalize the whole, silly "death panel" thing, but how is this personal anecdote supposed to accomplish that? Granny, after all, has access to the best health care vast personal wealth can buy - just like all of the rich do. No matter what sort of plan the government comes up with, granny would still have had the very best of care because of her own financial position. Granny wasn't forced into a mediocre, bureaucratic, Stalinistic wet-dream of years-long waiting lists and Byzantine inefficiencies, and would never have to worry about such a thing because of her status. What connection, if any, is 0bama trying to draw here? We already know that his family and the rest of the wealthy will be exempted from the worst that government-run health care has to offer - that will be true no matter what happens.

The man who was born into the lap of luxury and privilege, who enjoys the benefits of a lifetime of pampering, attention and being handed whatever he wants, whenever he wants it, is going to have a hard time trying to pitch the idea that he's somehow one of the "common people" because his grandmother died.

Instead of this lame attempt at an emotional appeal, how about providing some actual details. Like, for example, exactly what deal he tried to cut with the nation's pharmaceutical companies in exchange for their support, and what they finally accepted, and got in return. I'd much rather hear about that than some solipsist, contrived gushing that has absolutely no relevance to the matter at hand, and is instead meant to deflect attention away and shut down any real discussion.

350 bbuddha  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:32:04am

re: #346 realwest

Good Morning. Sorry you aren't feeling tip top.
Hard to believe but it is actually hotter here than in your neck of the woods. They are forecasting an actual heatwave, for Maine. Oh No it's AGW

351 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:34:54am

re: #244 MandyManners

But, he's a special science guy! Breeding for the cognoscenti is to be encouraged.

BTW, are the elite in China bound by the one-child law?

Technically, the "one-child" law actually means one live birth. Lots of families in China trying to get around it by taking fertility drugs to give them twins, triplets, quadruplets, etc. IIRC.

/and good evening!

352 onslow  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:35:45am
353 onslow  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:38:32am
354 legalpad  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:38:54am

re: #346 realwest

Good morning, Real. I checked out your comments on that thread. Seemed accurate to me. If you think you don't meet up to your own very high standards of decorum in every particular, believe me, you get a pass from every reasonable person. Yes, your country does owe you. I will be personally pissed if they don't pay. Any system that does not allow for your immediate and complete treatment, needs to be replaced with one that does. There are a lot of costs I would cut before that one.

355 lawhawk  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:39:11am

re: #349 SixDegrees

And it's not like he's the only one who watched his grandmother pass away either.

I can tell from personal experience as mine passed away last week at the age of 92. She spent the last 3 years of her life in a nursing home after falling and breaking a bone in her leg requiring major reconstructive surgery. She required constant care thereafter, but that enabled her to see her great-grandson who was born just under a year ago.

How exactly would the proposals of a voluntary panel affect her end of life care options? When does government invoked voluntary creep into mandatory? It will, of course, as doctors will pressured to do more with less, and more importantly, I wonder where the cost savings can come from.

So, if he's trying to argue from a position of moral superiority, he's got another thing coming to him as well as every family has dealt with this issue at one time or another, and not every family has the financial wherewithal to do all that is possible or to take advantage of existing government programs to cover care.

More to the point, the President can't tell you how we're going to pay for any of this. He can promise the sky, but the bills are largely silent over cost. Right now, it's just platitudes that most folks wont see tax hikes, but that's going to come, if not this year, then next year, the year after and after that as cost savings never materialize and the need to fund the program becomes just as bad as all the other existing government entitlements that are unsustainable and require significant overhauls to balance the budget.

Obama says that he's not going to sign a bill that will add to the deficit. If that were the case, no bill would pass his desk. The fact is that he can't see into the future to know what any of this will cost - and the government has this "odd" habit of overpromising savings and underdelivering on cost controls - leaving the taxpayer holding the bag.

356 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:39:22am

re: #350 bbuddha
Good morning bbuddha! A heat wave in Maine? What, is it gonna get to 80 or something? (just kidding; I've spent some time in the summer at both Portland and at Augusta and it can get damned hot up there!).
So, how hot is it going to get to?

357 midwestgak  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:39:59am

re: #346 realwest

{real} Glad you're here. Pace yourself, okay?

btw, the place that installed my tires don't calibrate breaks. They only deal with tires. But again, thanks for the suggestion.

358 irish rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:41:05am

Good morning, lizards.

359 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:41:22am

re: #353 onslow Hell zombie shoulda at least gotten a hat tip or the newspaper equivalent thereof!

360 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:41:53am

re: #354 legalpad
Thanks but I wish I hadn't posted that.

361 midwestgak  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:42:09am

re: #358 irish rose

Morning Irish. What's on your mind today?

362 irish rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:43:09am

re: #361 midwestgak

Morning Irish. What's on your mind today?

You don't want to know.

363 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:43:21am

re: #357 midwestgak
Hi {gak} well pacing myself is not something I'm particularly good at, I'm afraid.
And if the place that installed your tires doesn't "do" brakes, all the more reason to take it to someone who does and also have 'em check the tire balance as well!

364 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:44:08am

re: #358 irish rose
Good morning Irish Rose - hope today finds you doing well - or as well as can be expected.

365 irish rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:45:22am

re: #364 realwest

Good morning Irish Rose - hope today finds you doing well - or as well as can be expected.

Thanks.

366 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:46:15am

health care crisis?...Cloward/Piven strategy
[Link: www.americanthinker.com...]

367 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:49:03am

Oh YOU WHO! DEnforcer and JohnnyCache - as I mentioned at #346 above, please come out and play!

368 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:51:03am

Obama's bussed-in supporters. What's that called again? Astroturfing? Funny - the MSM doesn't mention it.

369 bbuddha  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:52:03am

re: #356 realwest

Yesterday it was over 90. I know, I know. That's nothing :-) The heat actually drove me in before the bugs yesterday. I spent an hour in the garden and came in actually dripping sweat (me , a woman, went way beyond glowing)

370 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:52:07am

re: #368 FrogMarch

"That's because the only bussed in supporters were brought there and paid off by the insurance companies!"

/holy shit, i got a whole diagonal on that bingo card

371 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:53:09am

re: #349 SixDegrees

Well done!

Morning lizards.

Not to change the subject, but I was reading the stalker blog (2.0) last night and apparently, I got quite a few honorable mentions. Me and the other more liberal posters here. Ice, Cato, Avanti, some others and how we're all sycophants.

So let me ask you, how is it that LGF has 1000s of posters, a handful of which are liberals and we're named as sycophants (never mind that we are most often on the opposite end of any spectrum) while the deuce has maybe 10 people that are keeping that blog alive and they all agree with each other namely how we suck? And WE'RE sycophants! LOL Losers!

Oh, btw, they have a good panel on Meet the Press this morning (God bless Tivo). Dick Armey and Rachel Maddow (!!) Now that's a cage match!

372 bbuddha  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:54:52am

BBL, I have some sous chef duties to perform. late breakfast this morning.

373 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:57:49am

Vaccine news is often linked to conspiracy theories. This one sounds like it might be different, though, and worth a read.

Swine flu jab link to killer nerve disease: Leaked letter reveals concern of neurologists over 25 deaths in America

Any doctors out there that may know whether there's any merit to this?

A warning that the new swine flu jab is linked to a deadly nerve disease has been sent by the Government to senior neurologists in a confidential letter.

The letter from the Health Protection Agency, the official body that oversees public health, has been leaked to The Mail on Sunday, leading to demands to know why the information has not been given to the public before the vaccination of millions of people, including children, begins.

It tells the neurologists that they must be alert for an increase in a brain disorder called Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS), which could be triggered by the vaccine.

GBS attacks the lining of the nerves, causing paralysis and inability to breathe, and can be fatal.

The letter, sent to about 600 neurologists on July 29, is the first sign that there is concern at the highest levels that the vaccine itself could cause serious complications.

It refers to the use of a similar swine flu vaccine in the United States in 1976 when:

* More people died from the vaccination than from swine flu.
* 500 cases of GBS were detected.
* The vaccine may have increased the risk of contracting GBS by eight times.
* The vaccine was withdrawn after just ten weeks when the link with GBS became clear.
* The US Government was forced to pay out millions of dollars to those affected.

Concerns have already been raised that the new vaccine has not been sufficiently tested and that the effects, especially on children, are unknown.

It is being developed by pharmaceutical companies and will be given to about 13million people during the first wave of immunisation, expected to start in October.

Top priority will be given to everyone aged six months to 65 with an underlying health problem, pregnant women and health professionals.

Read more: [Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

374 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 6:57:50am

re: #334 bbuddha

Good Morning all. I see it looks like the takeover of our health care is still up for discussion
/

The current plan is to market healthcare as a civil right starting in September. They've already tested it in multiple markets and see it as a way to counter the "town hall" anger.

Sigh.

375 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:00:39am

Greetings & Salutatations & what up?

376 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:00:56am

re: #374 gregb

The current plan is to market healthcare as a civil right starting in September. They've already tested it in multiple markets and see it as a way to counter the "town hall" anger.

Sigh.

toss in 20 million illegal immigrants and it becomes a 'human rights' issue...and they are knocking on the door

377 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:02:10am

re: #374 gregb

The current plan is to market healthcare as a civil right starting in September. They've already tested it in multiple markets and see it as a way to counter the "town hall" anger.

Sigh.

Link?

378 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:03:25am

here they come...Soto will help sort this out down the road


[Link: online.wsj.com...]

379 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:03:59am

And here's the weekly prayer list

Lizard Prayer List 8/16/09
Prayers for thanks, praise, comfort, strength, healing, and hope
Please send updates to prayerlist96@yahoo.com
Seeking Updates
Many thanks to Ben Z and Cap'n Doc for starting this.
Part 1 of 3:
Community issues:
Blessing and protection over all of us during these times.
Our government
Our troops
Israel
Georgia/Ossetia
Gilad Schalit, for his release.
The contractors still held hostage
Brian at Snapped Shot: for justice
The Iranian “dissidents”
Thanksgivings
mikeymom: sister recovering from a stroke; D-i-L’s stepdad – throat cancer; and
son of a good friend-50 yrs old- having 1/3 of face removed and reconstructed next week-cancer.
Uncle Rancher: 17-year-old nephew had treatment for melanoma
Afrocity Brown: outpatient surgery went very well
bbuddha: mother-in-law doing much better
HoosierHoops: son Jordan deployed to Japan instead of Afghanistan & grandchild on the way
Vxbush: health issues diagnosed
Wolfie: nephew (USAR-spec ops) got home from Iraq a couple of months ago safe and sound, and he and his wife are expecting their second child.
eschew_obfuscation: family’s health and happiness
Empire1: out of the hospital after suffering a stroke, practically fully recovered
Loppyd: future plans
Irish Rose – Son doing ok and out of danger from illness; automobile problems resolved.
MNSnowlizard - No need for further heart surgery, prayers for her and her family’s good health
Fluffy Bunny – tumor turned out to be benign!
RememberSekhmet – got a job!
Floral Giraffe - Mother just had successful pacemaker inplanted.
Fat Bastard Vegetarian – Mother’s cancer much improved

380 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:04:00am

re: #371 American Sabra

Did I get a mention yet?

/a dubious honor, but I feel kinda...left out.

381 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:04:30am

Part 2 of 3 08/16/09
Health issues:
Mikeymom: husband’s cousin's hubby just diagnosed w/lung and brain cancer
loppyd: Brother’s knee injury and future m-i-l’s broken hip.
vagabond trader: friend’s mother fighting cancer
(cont'd)
littleoldlady: talloldman
Pietr: Aunt Doris in hospital with poor prognosis; b-i-l Roscoe undergoing Chemotherapy
J.D.: diagnosed friend's son as having a Glioma
Doppelganglander: Passing of sister, best friend Cindy diagnosed with MS
NY Nana: son-in-law’s mum, recovering from amputation
CapeCoddah: boss John R
Iron Fist: diabetes not improving
yma o hyd: glaucoma; may need surgery; arthritis
ArmyWife: FIL just diagnosed with leukemia; good friend’s daughter dealing with issues.
UberInfidel67 and other Lizards who are trying to quit smoking
Chicago Blonde: friend battling cancer
Macker: health issues and treatment
Hoppes: has sick children, lost her MIL, and is very stressed
UberInfidel67: brother’s health after polyps removal
Aussiemagpie: children with health issues
Walter Cronanty: son with recurrence of leukemia & recovering from bone marrow transplant.
logboy: recovery from injuries received in combat in Iraq
gettinby: sister diagnosed with Sjogren’s Syndrome
Pingjockey – cancer down by voice box.
tfc3rid: gf's 89 year old grandmother (suffered a large stroke and is in rehab) and her uncle who is suffering from throat cancer; and continued prayers for dad who has MS
twincitiesgirl: husband fighting cancer
Cato the elder: health issues
Josephine: daughter diagnosed with rare, chronic illness
jamsler: sister, just diagnosed with thyroid cancer; father, getting biopsy of a possible malignancy in his throat.
CoCo: mother paralyzed (due to strokes) and is now having new health problems
gop_patriot: friend’s 8-year-old son starting chemo
Pingjockey: friend Bob with a carcinoma, recovering from surgery
jorline: scleritis (eye disease), rheumatoid arthritis; father who has colon cancer
realwest: metastasizing prostate cancer; mom Type II diabetes
AKAK: Parkinson’s diagnosis confirmed
eaglewingz08: intestinal cancer; has bad case of Grave’s disease, thyroid disorder
Noamsayin: niece and dad battling cancer
Truck Monkey: Brady (11-year-old with brain cancer who is on the football team he coaches)
Shaky Louie: chronic pancriatitis, and an (as yet) undiagnosed liver problem.
newsjunkie_ky: Step-Dad
Sarah: dad (cancer);
Zonie: cancer and renal failure
kcladderman: father’s throat cancer; just finisher second round of radiation
Clutch: 82-year-old mom’s recovery from eye surgery
BBev: wife’s illness and great pain, having gone from bad to worse
Kenneth: beloved daughter "M" serious chronic illness.
Cartman: liver and other health problems
Irene NYC: mom’s cancer
Outsidephilly – recovering from BAD flu and pneumonia
Jamgarr – for good outcome of cancer surgery

382 Coracle  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:04:33am

re: #378 albusteve

here they come...Soto will help sort this out down the road

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

That is a racist insinuation.

383 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:04:41am

re: #377 MandyManners

Link?

Laughing. Like Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory, it's a combination of conversations, news, and bboards where I get my info, but there has been some discussion of it in the MSM.

[Link: www.newsweek.com...]

384 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:04:55am

re: #355 lawhawk
Good morning lawhawk - condolences again on the loss of your grandmother.
And of course you're right. Killian Bundy linked to a site which stated that Medicare now covers 44 Million Americans and is in the hole for something like $76 Trillion Dollars - also on that ABC Thread. Not to mention the enormous hole Social Security is in. There is no ZERO SUM solution to many if any problems in America, and certainly NOT in the health care field.
I would like politicians to stop their continual running for re-election or election to a higher office, long enough to have a truly transparent discussion on health care and health care insurance reform BEFORE we institute any sort of "reform". For example, what are the known dimensions of the problem? President Obama says there are 46 million uninsured Americans. Where did he get that number?
I've seen honest and usually reliable sources say that the number of Americans who cannot afford private health care insurance is something like 12 Million. There's a LOT more than 34 million Americans at stake here - if the real number is closer to 12 million, we need to find out who they are and how it is that they are without insurance and then work on fixing that, not necessarily "reforming" our entire health care system.
I think that a lot of the opposition to Health Care Insurance Reform comes from Americans who are puzzled by the numbers being thrown around, the number of pages Congress (at least the House of Representatives) have taken with at least ONE proposal for "reform", why other folks (Federal government employees - especially congresscritters and their staffs, certain union members and others aren't ALL being included in "reform") etc etc etc.
Health Care is far too important to each of us (whether or not we know it yet) and to the Nation for it to be scrambled up in the current 1,000 bill or proposal without some basic discussions - PUBLIC discusssions of the dimensions of the problems with Health Care.

385 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:04:59am

Lizard Prayer List, cont’d: 08/16/09
Family, friend, and life situations:
Kawfytawk: the Springle family, who lost their father in Iraq.
Dustyvet: sudden loss of sister
loppyd: friend’s personal problems
Kawfytawk: caring for father
Teacake: emotional healing
BaseballMom57: husband’s passing; prayers for especially for their children.
ChildofMary: passing of husband, ElderZionist
US Beast: passing of mother
Vxbush: Lesion on Liver near vein, MRI scheduled; and one Lizard friend dealing with big issues
Army Green since '92: post has lost three soldiers in Afghanistan;
yma o hyd: death of dear friend Annie; ease the grief of friend who lost her husband of 59 years
Taqiyyotomist: strength in difficult times
FBV: that the unknowns find fulfillment
Vxbush: daughter’s financial issues
Yochanan: son in IDF
Bcgirl: sponsored child, Alia in Egypt
Wyatt Earp: Uncle Joe; prostate cancer returned
West Texas: brother’s decision
Victor_yugo: job
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey: mom home from the hospital but may be regressing
A Kiwi Infidel: Natasha and her husband mourning the loss of the younger child.
MandyManners: Mother seriously ill and in hospital.
Cast Iron Magnolia: nephew, David, who's a Marine serving in Iraq
HHC 2-2 SCR: for those we lost and their family and friends and for thanks for those that are finally back and one for the safety of those still waiting to return.
lightsout: to make a wise decision
BeerDrinking VictoryMonkey: strength to overcome a personal issue, and for wisdom in discerning another one
Flynmudd: son deployed to Middle East
x-wing: son diagnosed with Asperger’s (mild autism)
Mars Needs Neocons: job
jcm: new 7th month foster daughter (previous foster daughter went to live with her grandma)
Josephine: painful loss
Jammiewearingfool: sister’s passing
David Simon: mom (Alzheimer's)
Intrepid: Mom has Alzheimer's and Intrepid is caretaker
conservgirl: atheist SPM, that he finds the Lord
Coz: Brother in law and wife in horrible motorcycle accident; wife passed away.
Pvt Bin Jammin – BIL’s son has Liver Cancer
soxfan4life – Uncle had heart attack, undergoing by-pass surgery
3 wood – Dana, friend of 3 wood and family, passed of cancer and is now in the arms of the Lord. Please pray for her 2 small children and husband.

ChristheProfessor – lost his brother to cancer recently.
Floral Giraffe – Uncle passed away this past week
Mamacares – health issues for a family member
Conservatisimnow – kidney stones and other related matters.
Bbhudda – Mother-in Law passed away recently.
Hutchip – son in US Army, just shipped out to the Middle East where he’ll be in Harm’s way
Knitwit – calm for a friend who is experiencing some turbulence.
Lizards with family issues
Irish Rose: One of Top 5 candidates for a GREAT job!
Noraono: colleagues laid off in building industry
antiislamist: in need of prayers
lone_wolf_in_illinois: friends and family in Israel
Dianna: - mother- best possible outcome is hoped for.
GotC: strength for kids and her dealing with EH.
Danger close: general
zulubaby, Carl in Jerusalem, Mr Pol, Golden Jerusalem, basically all the minion in eretz Yisrael
Noam Saying: comfort for a lost brother
Buckeye Abroad: in the belly of the beast of Eurabia
nonic: general
yank in EU: general
MdiM: general
.
In Memoriam
Dublin(CA)Dude
USMC 1968
ElderZion
Obi Wan
All our Troops who have died protecting our Freedom and their families.

386 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:05:05am

re: #374 gregb

The current plan is to market healthcare as a civil right starting in September. They've already tested it in multiple markets and see it as a way to counter the "town hall" anger.

Sigh.

Civil right? There's a nutjob twoofer on my art forum's political board proudly proclaiming it as a human right!

387 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:05:53am

re: #380 laZardo

Did I get a mention yet?

/a dubious honor, but I feel kinda...left out.

I don't believe so. You must try harder!

388 Irish Rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:07:28am

re: #371 American Sabra

If I were you, I wouldn't mention here that you read the stalker blog.

I've sadly learned that people here don't give a damn about what they say about you, or Charles, or anyone else who is being savaged over there. You'll probably be told that you actually deserve to be a victim of their vile comments, because you have the audacity to mention them here.

389 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:09:57am

re: #386 laZardo

Civil right? There's a nutjob twoofer on my art forum's political board proudly proclaiming it as a human right!

Well, Battle Royale is set for September. Reagan's "No Socialized Medicine" versus Obama's "Healthcare Civil Right" (or Human Right as you pointed out, civil right didn't mesh well with public understanding).

I watched 'The International' the other day. A quote is relevant here:
What do you do when there's no way out?
Find a way deeper in.

390 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:10:37am

Senator Kent Conrad now on FNC saying that they do not have the votes in the Senate to pass the Public Option in the Health Reform Proposal.
Obama apparently has lost the debate. He will undoubtedly get something & call it a victory , but he is blowing this.

391 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:10:56am

re: #384 realwest

Maybe that 46 million number includes those who are later on unpleasantly surprised to find out that their health care coverage isn't adequate enough due to risk etc.?

392 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:11:00am

re: #388 Irish Rose

Well I read em from time to time. They are so stupidly outrageous, it's a guilty pleasure. The difference is I don't respond to them. (You really shouldn't either IMO.)

393 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:11:10am

re: #382 Coracle

That is a racist insinuation.

She's the one who brought up being a "wise Latina".

394 Irish Rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:11:14am

re: #379 wahabicorridor

Please add me to the prayer list this morning, for emotional healing.
I had a very old and very deep wound opened up yesterday by some very cruel people, and the hurt that I'm feeling today can't be put into words.

395 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:12:03am

how Agent Presley joined the the BNDD...unusual tale about the King

[Link: www.powerlineblog.com...]

396 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:12:33am

re: #378 albusteve
Hey Steve killer line here (from your link):""My position is that to have a healthy community we can't have a subset of people who don't have access to health care," says Mr. Duterte. "It's bad public-health policy." Health experts say that giving undocumented immigrants medical care can prevent the spread of illnesses."
But who pays for that healthcare? And does that not deplete the pool of financing for American citizens who require healthcare?

397 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:12:45am

re: #394 Irish Rose

Please add me to the prayer list this morning, for emotional healing.
I had a very old and very deep wound opened up yesterday by some very cruel people, and the hurt that I'm feeling today can't be put into words.

done

398 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:12:48am

re: #393 MandyManners

This article on Sotomayor being sworn in on TV a few weeks back showed several women, presumably Hispanic, wearing "Wise Latina" T-shirts. Weird how things turn out.

399 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:13:14am

re: #394 Irish Rose

Please add me to the prayer list this morning, for emotional healing.
I had a very old and very deep wound opened up yesterday by some very cruel people, and the hurt that I'm feeling today can't be put into words.

Wear it like a red badge of courage. That which doesn't kill us?

400 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:13:47am

re: #355 lawhawk

And it's not like he's the only one who watched his grandmother pass away either.

I can tell from personal experience as mine passed away last week at the age of 92. She spent the last 3 years of her life in a nursing home after falling and breaking a bone in her leg requiring major reconstructive surgery. She required constant care thereafter, but that enabled her to see her great-grandson who was born just under a year ago.

How exactly would the proposals of a voluntary panel affect her end of life care options? When does government invoked voluntary creep into mandatory? It will, of course, as doctors will pressured to do more with less, and more importantly, I wonder where the cost savings can come from.

So, if he's trying to argue from a position of moral superiority, he's got another thing coming to him as well as every family has dealt with this issue at one time or another, and not every family has the financial wherewithal to do all that is possible or to take advantage of existing government programs to cover care.

More to the point, the President can't tell you how we're going to pay for any of this. He can promise the sky, but the bills are largely silent over cost. Right now, it's just platitudes that most folks wont see tax hikes, but that's going to come, if not this year, then next year, the year after and after that as cost savings never materialize and the need to fund the program becomes just as bad as all the other existing government entitlements that are unsustainable and require significant overhauls to balance the budget.

Obama says that he's not going to sign a bill that will add to the deficit. If that were the case, no bill would pass his desk. The fact is that he can't see into the future to know what any of this will cost - and the government has this "odd" habit of overpromising savings and underdelivering on cost controls - leaving the taxpayer holding the bag.

All correct. And even worse, the CBO continues to provide analyses that say spending will skyrocket along with deficits as the true costs of such a program completely overwhelm the platitudes.

401 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:14:43am

re: #383 gregb

Laughing. Like Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory, it's a combination of conversations, news, and bboards where I get my info, but there has been some discussion of it in the MSM.

[Link: www.newsweek.com...]

Alter is lefty tool.

I wonder if someone in the FCBBHO Administration fed him some ideas.

402 Irish Rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:14:52am

re: #376 albusteve

toss in 20 million illegal immigrants and it becomes a 'human rights' issue...and they are knocking on the door

On this, I agree with you.
The healthcare industry in this country needs some serious reform, but no way in hell should we be forced to pay for the comprehensive healthcare of people who are in this country illegally... that is where I draw the line.

403 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:15:04am

re: #385 wahabicorridor
Good morning whabi! I'm sorry I posted in the middle of your post of The List. I just didn't realize you had started when I was writing, then posting my comment.
Excellent job, btw and thank you for maintaining The List.

404 midwestgak  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:15:19am

re: #394 Irish Rose

{Irish} Such wounds are so painful. Know that you have many lizards who care about you.

405 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:15:28am

re: #399 gregb

Wear it like a red badge of courage. That which doesn't kill us?

...slowly eats away at us and drives us insane?

/how I, not being strong enough and neither parentally nor school-legally encouraged to 'fight back' against bullies, dealt with that sort of thing.

406 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:15:44am

re: #401 MandyManners

Alter is lefty tool.

I wonder if someone in the FCBBHO Administration fed him some ideas.

Always on the lookout for good "terminology" trial balloons. It's seems so transparent to me...

407 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:16:04am

re: #394 Irish Rose

Please add me to the prayer list this morning, for emotional healing.
I had a very old and very deep wound opened up yesterday by some very cruel people, and the hurt that I'm feeling today can't be put into words.

(((IrishRose)))

408 Irish Rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:16:48am

re: #392 American Sabra

Well I read em from time to time. They are so stupidly outrageous, it's a guilty pleasure. The difference is I don't respond to them. (You really shouldn't either IMO.)

Sure, I'll just ignore the people who are stalking my family offline.
No problemo.

409 Coracle  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:16:52am

re: #393 MandyManners

That does not make the referenced insinuation any less racist.

410 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:17:24am

re: #398 laZardo

This article on Sotomayor being sworn in on TV a few weeks back showed several women, presumably Hispanic, wearing "Wise Latina" T-shirts. Weird how things turn out.

It's amazing how non-minorities are excoriated for talking about race yet some members of minorities do not.

411 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:17:33am

re: #403 realwest

morning real!

412 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:18:01am

Good morning Lizards. Hope everyone is having a nice weekend.

413 The Left  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:18:15am

re: #388 Irish Rose

If I were you, I wouldn't mention here that you read the stalker blog.

I've sadly learned that people here don't give a damn about what they say about you, or Charles, or anyone else who is being savaged over there. You'll probably be told that you actually deserve to be a victim of their vile comments, because you have the audacity to mention them here.

I don't believe that rose. People care deeply about you and just hate to see you hurt, that's all.

{Rose}

PS all the people over there are fuckwits and any normal human being can tell that within approximately 5 seconds of reading them.

414 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:18:17am

re: #406 gregb

Always on the lookout for good "terminology" trial balloons. It's seems so transparent to me...

The chattering class in the D.C. salons.

415 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:18:34am

re: #409 Coracle

That does not make the referenced insinuation any less racist.

I disagree.

416 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:18:59am

re: #412 _RememberTonyC

Evening RTC.

417 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:20:24am

re: #412 _RememberTonyC

Good morning Lizards. Hope everyone is having a nice weekend.

Fair-to-middling. How's your weekend?

418 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:20:33am

re: #396 realwest

Hey Steve killer line here (from your link):""My position is that to have a healthy community we can't have a subset of people who don't have access to health care," says Mr. Duterte. "It's bad public-health policy." Health experts say that giving undocumented immigrants medical care can prevent the spread of illnesses."
But who pays for that healthcare? And does that not deplete the pool of financing for American citizens who require healthcare?

this is going to be a huge issue sooner or later, and whatever the equation to pay for them is going to be another slam on an already over taxed taxpayer

419 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:21:43am

re: #402 Irish Rose

On this, I agree with you.
The healthcare industry in this country needs some serious reform, but no way in hell should we be forced to pay for the comprehensive healthcare of people who are in this country illegally... that is where I draw the line.

THere is a way to address the uninsured without a radical trashing of the system & it has always been available.
Carve out illegals, they have no claim on our healthcare system other than to be stabalized & then sent home for care.
Young people that are free to participate in their company health plan , but choose not to, should be free to pay out of pocket for services & join their employer plan at another open enrollment.
That leaves the working poor with no benefits. For them provide a stop loss provision so that their out of pocket expenses will be no more than the average insured. The government can self fund the stop loss or purchase it from a reinsurer.
THe problem is that it would not enhance Obamas power.

420 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:22:27am

The universal enemy

I sat at a table last week with representatives of Public Enemy No. 1 — the health-care insurance industry — and a more disreputable pack of scoundrels I have rarely observed. Fortunately, I had been warned about their crafty ways by President Obama, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Nobel laureate Paul Krugman, so I was fully prepared when they made an effort to humanize themselves.

Naturally, I refused to be fooled by their synthetic outrage over being demonized in the health-care debate. Didn't Pelosi explain to us that insurance companies "are the villains in this"? What possible reason would such an esteemed leader have to incite the public with unfair accusations?

I asked the four top executives at our editorial board meeting — from UnitedHealthcare, Cigna, Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield, and Rocky Mountain Health Plans — about the president's claim that we need a government insurance plan (the "public option") to "keep the insurance companies honest."

"Do we need a 'public option' in grocery stores to keep them honest?" retorted Cigna president Daryl Edmonds — perhaps unaware that his tart response could give this administration and Congress ideas. Undeterred, I pressed on: Aren't your administrative costs out of line compared to Medicare's because of outrageous salaries and other cockamamie expenses? That's what I keep hearing from advocates of a public option, and they never play loose with the facts.

The executives argued that it's almost impossible to track Medicare's true administrative costs because of the way they're spread across the government — and that in any event, 87 cents of every private health-insurance dollar go to pay physicians, hospitals and pharmaceutical companies. But I smelled a rat. After all, the remaining 13 cents include profits, and everyone knows that insurance industry profits are obscene.

Never mind that Anthem president John Martie handed me a graphic with PriceWaterhouseCoopers data showing that health plans' net profit margin is lower than in many other sectors. He would make a big deal about that, wouldn't he? I'm sure a 3 percent profit must be immoral for some reason. Where's Madam Speaker when you need her to explain why?

...RTWT

421 Irish Rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:23:08am

re: #413 iceweasel

I don't believe that rose.

Apparently you weren't reading last night.

422 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:23:56am

re: #417 MandyManners

Fair-to-middling. How's your weekend?

Hi Mandy and LaZardo ... weekend is OK ... worked last night but off today and tomorrow. I hope you guys are well. I just started up a humble little web page (blue nic) if anyone wants to check it out. It will never be LGF, but since I have no desire to be on Facebook, I guess it's a little chunk of the [Link: www...] me to play on!

423 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:24:10am

re: #409 Coracle

That does not make the referenced insinuation any less racist.

I don't consider Latino's a race

424 The Left  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:24:44am

re: #421 Irish Rose

Apparently you weren't reading last night.

I probably did miss a lot, I often do.

I still believe people here support you because you have a good heart.

425 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:26:11am

re: #402 Irish Rose

On this, I agree with you.
The healthcare industry in this country needs some serious reform, but no way in hell should we be forced to pay for the comprehensive healthcare of people who are in this country illegally... that is where I draw the line.

Certainly a worthy complaint. But let's be careful not to win all the battles while losing the war. The strategy here already seems to be to load the bill up with all sorts of questionable bullshit that's sure to draw fire, then slough off one item at a time and let the opposition declare victory while still keeping the bill itself intact. It's easier to go back and add in the items you lost at a later date, once the full framework is already in place, and "losing" on a few items creates the illusion of victory on the other side.

The entire bill is a disaster from front to back, cobbled together from a wish list of overarching government control fantasies almost overnight, with no meaningful analysis and no attempt at bipartisanship. Free market solutions, for example, appear nowhere, despite their proven ability to provide quality health care to over 85% of the population - if you believe the inflated numbers kicked around about the number of "uninsured" citizens.

The "problems" being "solved" are being blown up out of all proportion to their true size and seriousness. This bill needs to simply be killed, end of story. The actual problems are certainly worth addressing, but they are small and manageable and don't require handing over control of a sixth of the nation's economy to a bunch of career politicians with no expertise in anything but publicly lying.

426 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:26:18am

gonna grab a quick walk before the wife heads home ... will check in later. have a good one!

427 Irish Rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:26:26am

re: #422 _RememberTonyC

Hi Mandy and LaZardo ... weekend is OK ... worked last night but off today and tomorrow. I hope you guys are well. I just started up a humble little web page (blue nic) if anyone wants to check it out. It will never be LGF, but since I have no desire to be on Facebook, I guess it's a little chunk of the [Link: www...] me to play on!

Nice Tony, can I add you to my blogroll?

428 Mich-again  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:27:39am

re: #420 FrogMarch

You find out at the end that the writer was being sarcastic. Ha.

429 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:28:25am

re: #422 _RememberTonyC

Hi Mandy and LaZardo ... weekend is OK ... worked last night but off today and tomorrow. I hope you guys are well. I just started up a humble little web page (blue nic) if anyone wants to check it out. It will never be LGF, but since I have no desire to be on Facebook, I guess it's a little chunk of the [Link: www...] me to play on!

I love your vine!

430 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:28:40am

re: #423 albusteve

I don't consider Latino's a race

Aren't most Latinos anthropologically considered Caucasian?

431 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:29:04am
432 SilverSeaOtter  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:29:13am

Since it appears that there are many of us who are not enthralled with the idea and/or the reality of Obamacare (as yet an undefined concept) I was wondering a) what is wrong with the medical care in the US right now, and b) what do you think needs to be done to make the current system better? Serious question. I am talking the 50,000 foot approach here. Not the 500 foot, look at every detail approach. We can get into that later. What are the broad outlook problems, and what suggestions so you have to "fix" those problems? And try to come up with answers that will help the country, not the Dems, not the Repubs, not whomever, but something that will help us all. Let's define the problem. Let's get some suggestions. Anyone?

433 swamprat  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:30:08am

re: #349 SixDegrees


The man who was born into the lap of luxury and privilege, who enjoys the benefits of a lifetime of pampering, attention and being handed whatever he wants, whenever he wants it, is going to have a hard time trying to pitch the idea that he's somehow one of the "common people" because his grandmother died.

If you are saying that Obama was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, you are mistaken. He was smart, lucky, and worked the system.
He wants to help America. It's not his fault that the help will saddle us with one of the largest social programs we have ever seen.

434 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:30:40am

re: #402 Irish Rose
Hey Rose, sorry for the incident(s) that caused old wounds to be re-opened. But as I said in my #384 above, I'm not sure (and I seriously regret to say I'm not sure if anyone else is either) just what the dimensions of our "health care" or "health care insurance" problems are. But clearly adding illegal immigrants undocumented workers to the mix isn't going to help the situation at all.
And as a lawyer with more than a nodding acquaintance of our Constitution, it troubles me that some folks are finding a "constitutional right" to health care.
If we indeed want the Constitution to give all American Citizens a Right to Health care, I'd sure as hell like to see us amend the Constitution to accomplish that goal. Yes, let's have the public vote on it, since the damned politicians won't have an honest, open discussion about whatever our health care/health insurance problems are before we go through our health care system with a saber when if the facts were out there, we might be BETTER able to deal with the problem(s) with a scalpel.

435 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:32:15am

re: #428 Mich-again

You find out at the end that the writer was being sarcastic. Ha.

It was obvious sarcasm from the beginning. Highlighting the absurdity of this debate.

436 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:33:20am

re: #432 SilverSeaOtter

1. Too many millions of people can't afford insurance.

2. Too many people going broke paying their healthcare.

3. Insurance companies interfering with your doctor's advice. I have been twice denied an MRI for a condition in which I need one.

I have the best health insurance that (my) money can by and my co-pay just went up to $45 a visit.

437 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:33:39am

re: #432 SilverSeaOtter

1st we have to find out how many 'Americans" REALLY have no helath ins. The scare tactic number is now up to 50 MILLION

A) how many of those are illegal aleins
B) how many of those qualify for state programs but haven't applied
C) how many of those have their own Health Savings plan used for catastrpophic emergencies only, thus saving money on monthly premiums
D) how many of them are lets say between the ages of 18 and 35 and opt NOT to have $$$ taken out of their paychecks, instead using that money for a better car, a nicer condo, eating out more often, etc?


Deduct the total of letters A,B, C, and D, give us a REAL number to work with ,,,THEN come up with a solution

438 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:34:04am

re: #430 opnion

Aren't most Latinos anthropologically considered Caucasian?

beats me...they are people of Mexican ethnicity where I come from, at least that's what the US Census Bureau calls them, I believe

439 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:34:15am

Now that it's light. It's not an oppossum, it's a 30 lb racoon. I'm sure my dogs will be brought up on PETA charges.

440 Mich-again  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:36:29am

re: #435 FrogMarch

It was obvious sarcasm from the beginning. Highlighting the absurdity of this debate.

Not so obvious. It sounded like Obamabot talking points.

441 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:36:48am
442 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:38:27am

re: #439 gregb

Now that it's light. It's not an oppossum, it's a 30 lb racoon. I'm sure my dogs will be brought up on PETA charges.

Rocky!

443 Mich-again  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:38:40am

re: #439 gregb

Now that it's light. It's not an oppossum, it's a 30 lb racoon. I'm sure my dogs will be brought up on PETA charges.

Thems some badass dogs. Racoons are nasty in a fight and most dogs would be smart to not pick a fight.

444 Gella  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:38:49am

good morning lizards :)
so , tomorrow City of Chicago will be closed, great, ILL even lost A ratings

445 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:39:41am

FNC panel now saying that the Blue Dogs will not vote for the House Bill.
They are persuaded by the level of anger at the Town Halls.
It may be that demonizing the protesters has backfired . The name calling by Democrats has not worked. Every large group has kookery, A few people with Swastika signs etc. can't tar the whole group.
Hell some of the name calling by Dems could lead you to conclude that their kook fringe is in office.

446 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:40:17am
447 Gang of One  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:40:27am

re: #409 Coracle

That does not make the referenced insinuation any less racist.

What's racist about it? Seriously.

448 midwestgak  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:40:28am

re: #444 Gella

good morning lizards :)
so , tomorrow City of Chicago will be closed, great, ILL even lost A ratings

re: #444 Gella

good morning lizards :)
so , tomorrow City of Chicago will be closed, great, ILL even lost A ratings

What?

449 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:40:42am

re: #444 Gella

good morning lizards :)
so , tomorrow City of Chicago will be closed, great, ILL even lost A ratings

CA, Ill, MA, MI
lead the way for innovative state govt models

450 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:40:57am

re: #438 albusteve

beats me...they are people of Mexican ethnicity where I come from, at least that's what the US Census Bureau calls them, I believe

The reason I ask is because of the Spanish ancestory. I would agree that Latino is not a race.

451 Gella  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:41:17am

re: #448 midwestgak

What?

[Link: cbs2chicago.com...]

452 Gang of One  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:41:53am

re: #410 MandyManners

It's amazing how non-minorities are excoriated for talking about race yet some members of minorities do not.

Because, Mandy, only Caucasians are racists.
//sigh ...

453 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:41:56am

Those illegals are often hired under the table at ridiculously low wages and no benefits, taking jobs away from the rest of us and who's fault is that? Theirs or those who hire them? It's their fault for wanting a better life in this country and they'll do anything to get it? I'm for making them legal btw. So all the "healthcare" they get is when they go to the emergency room at a city hospital which, yes, does add to the problem. Put them on a path to citizenship and fine the companies who keep hiring them. That will go far to solve that healthcare problem, too.

454 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:42:28am

re: #450 opnion

The reason I ask is because of the Spanish ancestory. I would agree that Latino is not a race.

I always thought that Latino was considered the mix between European (Spaniards largely) and the indigenous Indians.

455 jamgarr  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:43:02am

Morning Lizardia

456 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:43:23am

re: #424 iceweasel
FWIW, I think (hope) that Irish Rose was talking about people on the stalker blog, LGF 2.0 not what people out here were saying about her.
I'm not sure of this because I wasn't out here until after midnight, Eastern time.

457 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:43:30am

re: #451 Gella

[Link: cbs2chicago.com...]

In addition to reduced service days, all non-union employees were asked to take a series of furlough days and unpaid holidays, and most non-sworn union employees agreed to similar unpaid time off.

But of course.

458 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:44:25am

re: #456 realwest

Long time no see, real.
How are you feeling today ?

459 midwestgak  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:44:39am

re: #451 Gella

[Link: cbs2chicago.com...]

Threaten workers with job loss and they will allow such manipulation. Union employees are not affected. Humm.

460 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:44:48am

re: #454 Pianobuff

I always thought that Latino was considered the mix between European (Spaniards largely) and the indigenous Indians.

You may be right. I have a Cuban freind though who says that he is of pure Spanish ancestory, & considers himself Latino.

461 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:45:05am

re: #432 SilverSeaOtter
Kindly see my #384 above.

462 Irish Rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:45:34am

re: #456 realwest

FWIW, I think (hope) that Irish Rose was talking about people on the stalker blog, LGF 2.0 not what people out here were saying about her.

Sadly, no.
I'm referring to comments that were made to me by other lizards.

463 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:45:41am

re: #440 Mich-again

Not so obvious. It sounded like Obamabot talking points.

I couldn't keep a straight face after the intro. ;-)
..and the end he notes "sarcasm aside"...

By the end of the meeting, the insurance honchos were really punching below the belt — pointing out, for example, that Medicare was not exactly a font of innovation in terms of disease management, preventive programs, cost containment and modernization, while their companies actually were pioneers in such areas.

Sarcasm aside, I carry no brief for insurance companies. I'm sure they'd be delighted with a bill mandating universal coverage and guaranteed issue, so long as a public option were deep-sixed. And yet those reforms alone would do nothing to slow the growth of health-care costs and premiums, which are on an unsustainable course.

I'm just saying they have good reason to fear a public option, which ought to be stopped in the name of consumer choice; that they are no more the villains in health care than other players; and that it is simply inconceivable that the industry is as indifferent to overhead as the breathless fans of a public option contend.

464 garycooper  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:45:56am

re: #399 gregb

Wear it like a red badge of courage. That which doesn't kill us?

"Holding a grudge is like drinking poison hoping the other person will die."

Don't give them the satisfaction, Irish Rose.

465 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:47:55am

re: #458 SasquatchOnSteroids Hey Sasquatch! I'm feeling a tad under the weather to coin a phrase, how are y'all doing today?

466 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:48:00am

re: #436 American Sabra

1. Too many millions of people can't afford insurance.

2. Too many people going broke paying their healthcare.

3. Insurance companies interfering with your doctor's advice. I have been twice denied an MRI for a condition in which I need one.

I have the best health insurance that (my) money can by and my co-pay just went up to $45 a visit.

Half of all healthcare is spent in the final years of a person's life.

467 Irish Rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:48:25am

re: #464 garycooper

"Holding a grudge is like drinking poison hoping the other person will die."

Don't give them the satisfaction, Irish Rose.

See my #408.

468 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:48:42am

re: #460 opnion

You may be right. I have a Cuban freind though who says that he is of pure Spanish ancestory, & considers himself Latino.

the terms are considered interchangable for the most part

469 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:48:52am

re: #453 American Sabra

Those illegals are often hired under the table at ridiculously low wages and no benefits, taking jobs away from the rest of us and who's fault is that? Theirs or those who hire them? It's their fault for wanting a better life in this country and they'll do anything to get it? I'm for making them legal btw. So all the "healthcare" they get is when they go to the emergency room at a city hospital which, yes, does add to the problem. Put them on a path to citizenship and fine the companies who keep hiring them. That will go far to solve that healthcare problem, too.

I have to take issue with that

1st, it's not YOUR job they are "taking away. The job belongs to the employer
2nd, I don't see too many US citizens lining up to do those jobs (chicken plucking,,, lettuce harvesting, etc). I't not like IBM is hiring illegals to do CEO work

470 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:49:41am

re: #462 Irish Rose
What? Comments out HERE that were made by other Lizards?
Uh, can you tell us who or which thread(s) and didja report 'em to Charles?

471 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:49:47am

re: #443 Mich-again

Thems some badass dogs. Racoons are nasty in a fight and most dogs would be smart to not pick a fight.

Or stupid dogs. I'm going to have nightmares about it screaming for 25 minutes while I tried to get them off of it.

472 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:50:00am

re: #468 albusteve

the terms are considered interchangable for the most part

Confusing.BTW your post about Sotomayor was not racist.

473 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:50:32am

re: #465 realwest

Hey Sasquatch! I'm feeling a tad under the weather to coin a phrase, how are y'all doing today?

Sorry to hear that, friend. Hope you get to feeling better later.
We're all good, I've been put on a diet by myself. I miss my doughnuts already.

474 lincolntf  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:50:39am

Morning all.
In-laws just left after a 3-day visit. Surprisingly, their previous habit of bringing up the wonderfulness of Obama at every turn had completely disappeared. Politics never once entered any discussion during their visit.
Not a good sign for Barry.

475 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:51:22am

re: #474 lincolntf

Morning all.
In-laws just left after a 3-day visit. Surprisingly, their previous habit of bringing up the wonderfulness of Obama at every turn had completely disappeared. Politics never once entered any discussion during their visit.
Not a good sign for Barry.

Maybe they've found out that this isn't the CHANGE they had HOPEd for!

476 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:52:18am

re: #474 lincolntf

Morning all.
In-laws just left after a 3-day visit. Surprisingly, their previous habit of bringing up the wonderfulness of Obama at every turn had completely disappeared. Politics never once entered any discussion during their visit.
Not a good sign for Barry.

3-days with the in-laws...

You are a brave man.

477 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:52:32am

re: #474 lincolntf

Morning all.
In-laws just left after a 3-day visit. Surprisingly, their previous habit of bringing up the wonderfulness of Obama at every turn had completely disappeared. Politics never once entered any discussion during their visit.
Not a good sign for Barry.

I would've been tempted to get in a few nasty digs about FCBBHO.

478 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:52:39am

re: #470 realwest
ADDENDUM - Irish Rose - are there commenters out here who said something about stalking your family OFFLINE? (from your #408)? If so y'all ought to seriously report 'em to Charles NOW.

479 jamgarr  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:52:42am

re: #465 realwest

Feel better real

480 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:53:31am

re: #474 lincolntf

Morning all.
In-laws just left after a 3-day visit. Surprisingly, their previous habit of bringing up the wonderfulness of Obama at every turn had completely disappeared. Politics never once entered any discussion during their visit.
Not a good sign for Barry.

A lot of Barry supporters are experiencing buyers remorse. How often do you hear one say, "I didn't know that."
He still holds onto a hardcore group that are ready to open a vein for him.

481 lincolntf  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:53:36am

re: #476 SasquatchOnSteroids

They're not so bad, but 3 days is a pretty good limit for all company.

482 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:53:49am

re: #449 albusteve

CA, Ill, MA, MI
lead the way for innovative state govt models

Best thing that ever happen to Orange County was our bankruptcy. Lean, mean government machine at a time when everything else was recessioning.

483 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:53:56am

re: #472 opnion

Confusing.BTW your post about Sotomayor was not racist.

language and culture are pretty much one in the same...there are many Latinos that do not speak Spanish, which traditionally was one of the two descriptors for Hispanic...the other being of Spanish decent obviously...nowdays it's all the same, at least in NM, but Latino is by far the most widely used term

484 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:54:04am

re: #479 jamgarr
Thank you my friend - uh, if y'all get a chance to e-mail me about what's going on with you I'd appreciate it a lot!

485 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:54:33am

BBIAW!

486 swamprat  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:54:42am

re: #432 SilverSeaOtter

...try to come up with answers that will help the country, not the Dems, not the Repubs, not whomever, but something that will help us all. Let's define the problem. Let's get some suggestions. Anyone?

tort reform.
reform and expand medicare/medicaid.
reign in medicine costs through(sic)tort reform, subsidies, international competition, and governmental and private watchdogs.
Government sponsored clinics, hospitals, and mobile rural medical care.

How's that?

487 Gang of One  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:55:05am

re: #453 American Sabra

Those illegals are often hired under the table at ridiculously low wages and no benefits, taking jobs away from the rest of us and who's fault is that? Theirs or those who hire them? It's their fault for wanting a better life in this country and they'll do anything to get it? I'm for making them legal btw. So all the "healthcare" they get is when they go to the emergency room at a city hospital which, yes, does add to the problem. Put them on a path to citizenship and fine the companies who keep hiring them. That will go far to solve that healthcare problem, too.

No, it's their 'fault' for not changing the political and economic realities back home. I lived in Mexico all told more than 13 years, have family there. I was there when Luis Donaldo Colosio, the PRI presidential candidate was assassinated in 1993 leading the way for Zedillo [who was his campaign manager and Sec of Education]. Zedillo's openness led the way for Vicente Fox of the PAN to wrestle control of the presidency from the PRI's 71-year stranglehold on Los Pinos. Mexico has a lot of problems, and one of them is the fact that El Norte is a safety valve. It cannot change overnight, but the Mexicans need to fix their nation first.

488 Irish Rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:55:21am

re: #470 realwest

What? Comments out HERE that were made by other Lizards?
Uh, can you tell us who or which thread(s) and didja report 'em to Charles?

Well since you asked, they're on the end of the Saturday morning open thread.

Apparently I'm not entitled to voice my anger when people over at Deuce accuse me of murdering my own father. Their behavior is all my fault, you see, and I should just STFU.

489 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:55:24am

re: #466 gregb

Half of all healthcare is spent in the final years of a person's life.

Half? I've never seen that figure. Certainly when you're in your 20s or 30s, you most often don't need a doctor, except for women who go annually. But as you reach middle age, not end of life, it becomes more important. I know at least half a dozen people fighting cancer in mid-life, not end of life.

And btw, I was charged for a mammogram which is supposed to be free because I have a history of breast cancer in my family. $300 out of my pocket.

490 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:56:02am

re: #481 lincolntf

They're not so bad, but 3 days is a pretty good limit for all company.

Fish and guests.

491 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:56:23am

re: #481 lincolntf

They're not so bad, but 3 days is a pretty good limit for all company.

Agreed. I love my MIL, in 2 day stretches. Only because after that hers and my wifes claws start coming out.

Hisss.

492 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:56:27am

re: #483 albusteve

language and culture are pretty much one in the same...there are many Latinos that do not speak Spanish, which traditionally was one of the two descriptors for Hispanic...the other being of Spanish decent obviously...nowdays it's all the same, at least in NM, but Latino is by far the most widely used term

re: #483 albusteve

Right

493 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:57:13am

Good afternoon sentient beings!

What time is it at your place of residence?

Almost four in the afternoon over here.

494 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:57:17am

re: #487 Gang of One

No, it's their 'fault' for not changing the political and economic realities back home. I lived in Mexico all told more than 13 years, have family there. I was there when Luis Donaldo Colosio, the PRI presidential candidate was assassinated in 1993 leading the way for Zedillo [who was his campaign manager and Sec of Education]. Zedillo's openness led the way for Vicente Fox of the PAN to wrestle control of the presidency from the PRI's 71-year stranglehold on Los Pinos. Mexico has a lot of problems, and one of them is the fact that El Norte is a safety valve. It cannot change overnight, but the Mexicans need to fix their nation first.

And the Cubans, Haitians, Dominicans too? How do they go about that?

495 lincolntf  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:57:30am

re: #477 MandyManners

I resisted.
I did have a few moments of smug satisfaction when there'd be a lull in conversation that would normally have been filled with "Have you heard how much Obama is going to reduce the deficit..." or something like that.
This time, we were pointedly stuck talking about the same Tiger Woods/Mike Vick stuff over and over.

496 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:57:34am

re: #488 Irish Rose

Well since you asked, they're on the end of the Saturday morning open thread.

Apparently I'm not entitled to voice my anger when people over at Deuce accuse me of murdering my own father. Their behavior is all my fault, you see, and I should just STFU.

What you posted about what was said over there pissed me off.

497 Coracle  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:57:56am

re: #447 Gang of One

What's racist about it? Seriously.

It singles one member out as representative of, influential over, and/or responsible for an ethnicity's behavior.

If one wish to distinguish between ethnic bigotry and racism that's a prerogative, but it's just as ugly.

498 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:58:19am

re: #495 lincolntf

I resisted.
I did have a few moments of smug satisfaction when there'd be a lull in conversation that would normally have been filled with "Have you heard how much Obama is going to reduce the deficit..." or something like that.
This time, we were pointedly stuck talking about the same Tiger Woods/Mike Vick stuff over and over.

Man, I wouldn't have been able to resist.

Let's all have a beer !

499 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:58:31am

I've a question on "determining how many people are really uninsured":

How many of those people who "can afford it but don't get it" don't buy it because they know it won't actually cover them when shit hits the fan?

500 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:59:03am

re: #488 Irish Rose

Well since you asked, they're on the end of the Saturday morning open thread.

Apparently I'm not entitled to voice my anger when people over at Deuce accuse me of murdering my own father. Their behavior is all my fault, you see, and I should just STFU.

Rose, you're an important person on this blog. You have a lot of love and respect here. In fairness, only one person made the comment that you should let it go. Personally, I agree. It's not healthy for you. When you keep responding, you keep that flame going. Just my opinion.

501 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:59:25am

Healthcare?

Oh dear. I won't jump into the middle of that debate. Rather wait until the next thread pops up.

502 garycooper  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 7:59:40am

re: #467 Irish Rose

See my #408.

Offline, too? That's another story. Without knowing the details, I'd just like to point out the obvious, that these are pretty sad, pathetic people, who might need some authoritarian intervention.

503 swamprat  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:00:01am

re: #474 lincolntf

Shocking!

504 Gang of One  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:00:04am

re: #494 American Sabra

And the Cubans, Haitians, Dominicans too? How do they go about that?

Just like Mexico, they have to work it out. They want to come here, fine. Come here legally.

505 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:00:12am

re: #501 HAL2010

Healthcare?

Oh dear. I won't jump into the middle of that debate. Rather wait until the next thread pops up.

You're HAL2010.

You're supposed to say "I can't do that thread,Dave".

506 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:00:33am

Blessed are the Peacekeepers
(aka, a poultry excuse for one's buns being in an uproar)

507 Irish Rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:01:11am

re: #478 realwest

ADDENDUM - Irish Rose - are there commenters out here who said something about stalking your family OFFLINE? (from your #408)? If so y'all ought to seriously report 'em to Charles NOW.

No.

508 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:02:26am

re: #505 SasquatchOnSteroids

You're HAL2010.

You're supposed to say "I can't do that thread,Dave".

I've just had a new patch, so it's all good!
HAL.1.01

Less murder, more divisive comments online to further perpetuate the culture war

509 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:03:27am
510 jamgarr  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:05:07am

Real - I sent you an e-mail

511 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:05:40am

Hiya, Lizard Nation!

How are things in Lizardia, on this fine (well, not here, but what else is new!) Sunday?

512 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:05:51am

The sidebar in gregb's No. 406 is infuriating.


Town Hall Face
An unsightly condition caused by unsanitary health-care politics

[Link: www.newsweek.com...]

I cannot cut and paste the cut-line but, it's about people's face when they get emotional at those meetings.

I highly doubt anyone in the MFM published photographs or derrogatory comments about moonbats at protests during Pres. Bush's terms.

513 SilverSeaOtter  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:05:55am

There seems to be a group of people in the US who do not have health insurance. Between 12 to 50 million people. Are these people citizens or illegal aliens? Should all citizens and/or any illegal aliens have insurance? With the system set up the way it is now, anyone can get health care in the US. The question of paying for it then becomes a problem. Does the public pay for it out of our taxes, or do employers/self employed pay for it with higher premiums or a combination or something entirely different. Health savings accounts seem to me to be a good way to go. Everyone has one, you are required to put a low percentage (less than 3%) of your weekly income into the account, and you have a disaster insurance through your employer to cover the big problems. Or is there another way? What would that be?

514 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:06:07am

re: #487 Gang of One

If I may add, the reality Stateside oughta be changed a bit too.

I'm petitioning my Filipino mother for permanent residency. Even though I'm considered lucky for petitioning my mother specifically (siblings take 20 years!) it's still costing us a locally-whopping $355 just to send in the application. I can imagine that sort of cost would practically encourage illegal immigration.

515 Irish Rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:06:31am

re: #502 garycooper

Offline, too? That's another story. Without knowing the details, I'd just like to point out the obvious, that these are pretty sad, pathetic people, who might need some authoritarian intervention.

I'm not their only victim.
You can add Hoosier Hoops, Sharmuta and Charles to that list.

516 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:07:01am

bbl

517 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:07:01am

re: #511 yma o hyd

Hiya, Lizard Nation!

How are things in Lizardia, on this fine (well, not here, but what else is new!) Sunday?

Space-ious

518 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:07:08am

re: #488 Irish Rose
Hey Rose - I just went over to that thread and I didn't see any LGF commenters making those vile statements about you (in fact I only recall seeing Cato The Elder commenting on what was said about you on LGF 2.0 and he was supportive of you).
I'm as serious as I can be: if there are LGFer's commenting about stalking your family offline here, or otherwise saying things that are out of line (putting it mildly here) you really ought to tell Charles or hell TELL US who they are. Cause they sure as hell don't belong on LGF.

519 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:07:23am

re: #515 Irish Rose

With all due respect, sometimes you just gotta' drop the rope.

520 jamgarr  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:08:57am

And some say chivalry is dead!

/good on you real

521 Irish Rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:09:12am

re: #496 MandyManners

What you posted about what was said over there pissed me off.

You and me both.

But hey, it's Sunday morning... let's talk prayer list.

522 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:09:19am

my Sun morning contribution to American Modern Art

Image: muscle-cars-history-the-pontiac-gto-5493_1.jpg

523 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:10:53am
524 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:11:30am

re: #519 MandyManners
Good morning Mandy - I'd agree with you if it was just those mean folks on LGF 2.0 but Rose said it was lizards out here on LGF who were being mean and nasty to her and (I gather) said they were or are in fact stalking her family.
That's not a rope I'd let go of, I assure you of that.
And IRISH ROSE - I've reported the comments to Charles - cause although directed at you, it affects the feeling of "community" as fragile as it may be these days, on LGF.

525 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:11:55am

re: #521 Irish Rose

You and me both.

But hey, it's Sunday morning... let's talk prayer list.

This is the first time my mom's been back to church since the first or second week in June! She's now able to walk some distance without assistance.

526 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:12:08am

re: #513 SilverSeaOtter

I answered you here
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Your problem is again the numbers. You can't tell us if there are 12 or 50 million uninsured. You can't come up with a solution until you identify thwe problem. There is a HUGE difference between 12 million uninsured as opposed to 50 millio0n. Each would require a totally different fix

ANALOGY,,

A) you have one car tire that is low on air
B) you have 4 car tires that are slashed on the sidewalls

Same solution? NOPE!

527 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:12:44am

re: #524 realwest

I'm gonna' drop this rope.

528 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:12:56am

re: #525 MandyManners

This is the first time my mom's been back to church since the first or second week in June! She's now able to walk some distance without assistance.

That's some good and welcome news !

529 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:13:15am

re: #524 realwest

Good morning Mandy - I'd agree with you if it was just those mean folks on LGF 2.0 but Rose said it was lizards out here on LGF who were being mean and nasty to her and (I gather) said they were or are in fact stalking her family.
That's not a rope I'd let go of, I assure you of that.
And IRISH ROSE - I've reported the comments to Charles - cause although directed at you, it affects the feeling of "community" as fragile as it may be these days, on LGF.

I'm confused...

530 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:13:32am

re: #526 sattv4u2
Good morning sattv4u2 - please see my #384 above. I'd appreciate it if you would.

531 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:14:06am
532 midwestgak  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:14:08am

re: #511 yma o hyd

Hey {yma}
To your health

533 Irish Rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:14:56am

re: #524 realwest

Good morning Mandy - I'd agree with you if it was just those mean folks on LGF 2.0 but Rose said it was lizards out here on LGF who were being mean and nasty to her and (I gather) said they were or are in fact stalking her family.
That's not a rope I'd let go of, I assure you of that.
And IRISH ROSE - I've reported the comments to Charles - cause although directed at you, it affects the feeling of "community" as fragile as it may be these days, on LGF.

Thanks real.
I think you misunderstood what I was saying, though.

534 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:15:11am

re: #525 MandyManners

This is the first time my mom's been back to church since the first or second week in June! She's now able to walk some distance without assistance.


Whoa, that's some GREAT NEWS! Thanks for brightening up my day!
And - hope you don't mind me sayin so, but y'all ought to e-mail wahabi so she can modifiy The List.

535 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:15:16am

re: #512 MandyManners

The sidebar in gregb's No. 406 is infuriating.


[Link: www.newsweek.com...]

I cannot cut and paste the cut-line but, it's about people's face when they get emotional at those meetings.

I highly doubt anyone in the MFM published photographs or derrogatory comments about moonbats at protests during Pres. Bush's terms.


Mandy, apparently you did not get the memo. When"Progressives disrupt meetings, rush the stage & throw things a speakers, that is the best of participatory democracy. Their dissent is patriotic, they are speaking truth to power, listening to their better angels.
When Soccer Moms & Senior Citizen Veterans protest they are just evil & channneling Hitler.
I do hope that this helps.

536 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:16:02am

re: #531 taxfreekiller
Hey TFK my friend - respectfully this is not a joking matter.

537 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:16:17am

re: #530 realwest

Good morning sattv4u2 - please see my #384 above. I'd appreciate it if you would.

I've been saying since day 1 we need an HONEST and ACCURATE count of the "uninsured" BEFORE we can come up with a solution. What the Dems are trying to do is come up with a fix THEN go find a problem for it to fit

538 Irish Rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:16:28am

re: #525 MandyManners

This is the first time my mom's been back to church since the first or second week in June! She's now able to walk some distance without assistance.

Now that is some welcome good news!

539 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:17:43am

re: #528 SasquatchOnSteroids

That's some good and welcome news !

Thank you!

540 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:18:16am

Oh what the hell, I'll jump into the frying pan.

Just curious, what is the news over your side of the pond saying about the NHS?
I know Hannan was on FOX talking about it, is anyone else talking about it?

541 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:19:05am

re: #529 albusteve

I'm confused...

Me too, I went back to that thread & saw nothing threatening or even derogatory to Irish Rose by any LGF posters.
Could just be that I missed it.

542 jamgarr  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:19:09am

Arlen Specter can bite my shiny-metal ass!

543 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:19:10am

re: #534 realwest

Whoa, that's some GREAT NEWS! Thanks for brightening up my day!
And - hope you don't mind me sayin so, but y'all ought to e-mail wahabi so she can modifiy The List.

Thank you!

I'd prefer to keep mom on the list because she is dying because she's aspirating every time she eats.

544 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:19:13am

re: #509 taxfreekiller

NO

I can understand how you feel that way. Native Americans are still being treated the worst out of anyone, those who don't have gaming anyway. Not that this should be news to anyone, but unemployment on Lakota reservations is upwards of 80% with no healthcare, huge HS dropout rates and the like. That has been going on for a very long while.

545 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:19:34am
546 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:19:49am

re: #535 opnion

Mandy, apparently you did not get the memo. When"Progressives disrupt meetings, rush the stage & throw things a speakers, that is the best of participatory democracy. Their dissent is patriotic, they are speaking truth to power, listening to their better angels.
When Soccer Moms & Senior Citizen Veterans protest they are just evil & channneling Hitler.
I do hope that this helps.

Thank you, Comrade Opnion. My mind is re-adjusted.

547 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:20:23am

re: #538 Irish Rose

Now that is some welcome good news!

Thank you. Her will is of steel.

548 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:20:47am

re: #542 jamgarr

Arlen Specter can bite my shiny-metal ass!

Buns of steel?

549 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:20:54am

re: #533 Irish Rose
Well I read your comments #462 and 488 above and thought you were saying that people on LGF were talking trash to you about your family (putting it much more mildly than I feel) and I'm sorry if reading those two comments led me to an incorrect conclussion.
I'm sorry, but I kinda react RAPIDLY and sometimes VIOLENTLY when people do what I thought folks out HERE were doing to you.
Again, I'm sorry if I misunderstood you.

550 swamprat  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:20:57am

re: #523 taxfreekiller

brilliant!

551 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:21:42am

re: #546 MandyManners

Thank you, Comrade Opnion. My mind is re-adjusted.

I live to serve, carry on Citizen Mandy.

552 jamgarr  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:22:01am

re: #548 MandyManners

Buns of steel?


I wish

553 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:22:51am

re: #541 opnion

Me too, I went back to that thread & saw nothing threatening or even derogatory to Irish Rose by any LGF posters.
Could just be that I missed it.

it's all very cryptic

554 Gang of One  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:23:03am

re: #544 American Sabra

I can understand how you feel that way. Native Americans are still being treated the worst out of anyone, those who don't have gaming anyway. Not that this should be news to anyone, but unemployment on Lakota reservations is upwards of 80% with no healthcare, huge HS dropout rates and the like. That has been going on for a very long while.

Now that is an issue on which I can fully stand on with you. This is an American tragedy, and I must admit I don't know enough about it. This is certainly a problem that Americans must solve.

555 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:23:20am

I wanted to chime in about the Medieval Warm Period. I hear about it again and again in threads about AGW.

This journal paper was published in Science in 2003. Science is one of the journals of note.

[Link: www.sciencemag.org...]

Many papers have referred to a "Medieval Warm Period." But how well defined is climate in this period, and was it as warm as or warmer than it is today? In their Perspective, Bradley et al. review the evidence and conclude that although the High Medieval (1100 to 1200 A.D.) was warmer than subsequent centuries, it was not warmer than the late 20th century. Moreover, the warmest Medieval temperatures were not synchronous around the globe. Large changes in precipitation patterns are a particular characteristic of "High Medieval" time. The underlying mechanisms for such changes must be elucidated further to inform the ongoing debate on natural climate variability and anthropogenic climate change.

Here is a site from NOA that goes into various proxy reconstructions.

[Link: www.ncdc.noaa.gov...]

Notice how the 20th warms up substantially after a long overall trend of cooling.

556 Irish Rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:23:25am

re: #547 MandyManners

Thank you. Her will is of steel.

God bless her.

My dad was the same way... something that can be said for a lot of men and women of that generation. Will of steel, iron resolve.

557 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:24:06am

re: #442 MandyManners

Rocky!


[Video]

p.s. Rocky kept swinging til the end. I am *not* hoping for his revival.

558 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:24:07am

re: #551 opnion

I live to serve, carry on Citizen Mandy.

Be well, Citizen Opnion.

559 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:24:38am

re: #552 jamgarr

I wish

*ting*

560 Coracle  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:25:07am

re: #555 LudwigVanQuixote

Spiffy, LVQ.

561 Irish Rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:25:27am

re: #549 realwest

Well I read your comments #462 and 488 above and thought you were saying that people on LGF were talking trash to you about your family (putting it much more mildly than I feel) and I'm sorry if reading those two comments led me to an incorrect conclussion.
I'm sorry, but I kinda react RAPIDLY and sometimes VIOLENTLY when people do what I thought folks out HERE were doing to you.
Again, I'm sorry if I misunderstood you.

I appreciate your support, real.
No problem.

562 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:26:05am

re: #556 Irish Rose

God bless her.

My dad was the same way... something that can be said for a lot of men and women of that generation. Will of steel, iron resolve.

She passed it on to me and, I've passed it on to The Kid.

Of course, it could be re-labelled "pig-headed".

563 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:27:19am

Good Lord, there is not a single piece of junk food in this house.
I've looked twice. Panic attack.

564 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:27:26am

re: #557 gregb

p.s. Rocky kept swinging til the end. I am *not* hoping for his revival.

C'mere.

565 Irish Rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:27:55am

re: #562 MandyManners

She passed it on to me and, I've passed it on to The Kid.

Of course, it could be re-labelled "pig-headed".

566 Irish Rose  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:28:20am

re: #565 Irish Rose

Ooops.

567 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:28:21am

re: #563 SasquatchOnSteroids

Good Lord, there is not a single piece of junk food in this house.
I've looked twice. Panic attack.

How will you get your RDA of perservatives?!

568 jamgarr  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:28:31am

Gotta go find a gumbo recipe. Later.

569 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:28:54am

re: #563 SasquatchOnSteroids

Good Lord, there is not a single piece of junk food in this house.
I've looked twice. Panic attack.

Good Lord. Any takeaway places nearby?

570 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:31:06am

re: #567 MandyManners

re: #569 HAL2010

Have to go with a banana.

571 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:32:11am

re: #489 American Sabra

Half? I've never seen that figure. Certainly when you're in your 20s or 30s, you most often don't need a doctor, except for women who go annually. But as you reach middle age, not end of life, it becomes more important. I know at least half a dozen people fighting cancer in mid-life, not end of life.

And btw, I was charged for a mammogram which is supposed to be free because I have a history of breast cancer in my family. $300 out of my pocket.

I can't find the research from the early 90's, but it was written as an article on death taxes and inheritance. I did find this March 2004 "efficiency curve" paper, however, that is pretty interesting. They seem to peg the problems (at least from a healthcare provider cost standpoint).

www.oracle.com/industries/healthcare/oracle_health_final.pdf

572 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:33:22am

re: #570 SasquatchOnSteroids

re: #569 HAL2010

Have to go with a banana.

If I attacked you with one, would you know how to defend yourself against it?

Bananas are the only fruit or veg I've noticed tasted a lot better if it is organic.

573 swamprat  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:33:53am

re: #562 MandyManners

Resolve, pig headedness, whatever you call it, is amazing. It will replace ability, intelligence, luck, education. What is achieved through this this medium can not be measured. And when combined with any other positive traits, it can be unstopable

574 jvic  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:34:48am

re: #23 HelloDare

The quality of moral behaviour varies in inverse ratio to the number of human beings involved.

— Aldous Huxley

There are 435 members of the House of Representatives. And 100 Senators.

"The senators are decent men but the Senate is an evil beast." Senatores boni viri, senatus autem mala bestia.

--Latin proverb

575 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:34:54am

re: #572 HAL2010

If I attacked you with one, would you know how to defend yourself against it?

Bananas are the only fruit or veg I've noticed tasted a lot better if it is organic.


Yeah, but you're just a piece of metal with some fancy dancy doo-dads that enable you to

576 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:35:10am

re: #554 Gang of One

Now that is an issue on which I can fully stand on with you. This is an American tragedy, and I must admit I don't know enough about it. This is certainly a problem that Americans must solve.

Indeed. A few years ago, that big mouth Tancredo went off on how Miami is a "third world country" neglecting the fact that Cubans who manage to make it to the states are ushered into the system. I'm not against that, although I think the privilege should be given to other immigrants, but what irks me is that he should have looked North to our own indigenous people. In fact, the Lakota chairman has been driven into the hands of Chavez of all people because of it!

577 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:35:51am

re: #572 HAL2010

If I attacked you with one, would you know how to defend yourself against it?

Take it up on aPeel ?

578 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:36:27am

re: #575 realwest

Yeah, but you're just a piece of metal with some fancy dancy doo-dads that enable you to

Thats it, no more self-defence classes against robots with fruit for you!

579 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:36:35am

re: #576 American Sabra

I think the irony of trying to help the Native American system is that doing so runs a very high risk of being considered as trying to "white-ize" them i.e. "destroy their culture as has been done for 200+ years." It's probably why people try to sidestep the issue.

580 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:37:21am

re: #571 gregb

I can't find the research from the early 90's, but it was written as an article on death taxes and inheritance. I did find this March 2004 "efficiency curve" paper, however, that is pretty interesting. They seem to peg the problems (at least from a healthcare provider cost standpoint).

www.oracle.com/industries/healthcare/oracle_health _final.pdf

The link no worky :(

581 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:37:25am

Sorry - got called away!

Will work my way downthread ...

:-(

582 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:38:08am

brb, need to hydrate.

583 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:38:12am

re: #577 SasquatchOnSteroids

Take it up on aPeel ?

No, you shoot the bastard. Frankly, men who attack you with a banana are clearly fruity.

Observe

584 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:38:37am

re: #563 SasquatchOnSteroids

Good Lord, there is not a single piece of junk food in this house.
I've looked twice. Panic attack.

Toothpaste works in a pinch.

585 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:39:09am

re: #570 SasquatchOnSteroids

re: #569 HAL2010

Have to go with a banana.

*gasp*

586 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:39:18am

40 years ago this weekend...I missed it by a hair

Image: File:Woodstock_poster.jpg

587 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:39:53am

re: #584 Walter L. Newton

Toothpaste works in a pinch.

OMG, Genius !!

588 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:40:02am

re: #532 midwestgak

Hey {yma}
To your health

Hiya, {gak}!

Thanks!

(Trying desperately to keep up ... from waaayy behind ...!)

589 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:40:04am

re: #570 SasquatchOnSteroids

re: #572 HAL2010

Bananas are good for you.

/ ^-^

590 lawhawk  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:40:05am

re: #526 sattv4u2

I answered you here
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Your problem is again the numbers. You can't tell us if there are 12 or 50 million uninsured. You can't come up with a solution until you identify thwe problem. There is a HUGE difference between 12 million uninsured as opposed to 50 millio0n. Each would require a totally different fix

ANALOGY,,

A) you have one car tire that is low on air
B) you have 4 car tires that are slashed on the sidewalls

Same solution? NOPE!

Cash.For.Clunkers. /

591 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:40:43am

re: #579 laZardo

I think the irony of trying to help the Native American system is that doing so runs a very high risk of being considered as trying to "white-ize" them i.e. "destroy their culture as has been done for 200+ years." It's probably why people try to sidestep the issue.

Reservations for non-casino Indians are dreary places & even many that have gaming.
Sustance abuse, Diabetes & suicide among other things are rampant.
THe issue becomes how tight to you hang on to your culture or do you get off of the reservation & break the pathology?

592 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:40:45am

re: #589 laZardo

re: #572 HAL2010

Bananas are good for you.

/ ^-^

Is it organic?

593 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:41:18am

re: #573 swamprat

Resolve, pig headedness, whatever you call it, is amazing. It will replace ability, intelligence, luck, education. What is achieved through this this medium can not be measured. And when combined with any other positive traits, it can be unstopable

It got me out of a few bad situations when I grew up.

594 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:41:21am

re: #579 laZardo

I think the irony of trying to help the Native American system is that doing so runs a very high risk of being considered as trying to "white-ize" them i.e. "destroy their culture as has been done for 200+ years." It's probably why people try to sidestep the issue.

Well the poverty on these reservations is beyond outrageous. These folks are dealing with the most basic of human needs, food and shelter, not even getting to assimilation issues. There's no excuse for it.

595 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:43:09am

re: #586 albusteve

Dude...groovy.

597 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:43:34am

re: #594 American Sabra

Well the poverty on these reservations is beyond outrageous. These folks are dealing with the most basic of human needs, food and shelter, not even getting to assimilation issues. There's no excuse for it.

there are no resources to exploit for the Lakota...it is their homeland because there were buffalo...Pine Ridge is the worst place in the world for a rez

598 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:43:50am

re: #592 HAL2010

It's all-natural, I'll give you that.

599 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:44:26am

re: #540 HAL2010

Oh what the hell, I'll jump into the frying pan.

Just curious, what is the news over your side of the pond saying about the NHS?
I know Hannan was on FOX talking about it, is anyone else talking about it?

Blimey - speak about poking a hornet's nest!
NuLab is up in arms about what Hannan said - dave cameron distanced himself from Hannan - the NuLab slaves are now even twittering 'welovethenhs' - acres of trees felled for rebuttals of Hannan from left to right in the MFM - conservative blogs defending him: yeah, totally irrational, if you ask me.
Hannan is right, and normal people who haven't (yet) been brainwashed agree with him.
There are better solutions than the NHS, or obamacare, even in Europe.
But they are, of course, not proper 'socialist' health care plans ...

600 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:44:56am

Time for my daily S,S and S.
Agent 26971 out.

601 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:45:28am

re: #591 opnion

Reservations for non-casino Indians are dreary places & even many that have gaming.
Sustance abuse, Diabetes & suicide among other things are rampant.
THe issue becomes how tight to you hang on to your culture or do you get off of the reservation & break the pathology?

They shouldn't have to leave the reservation for basic needs. That's really the point. No other citizens are treated this way.

602 garycooper  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:45:44am

re: #555 LudwigVanQuixote

Once more, with feeling: "Less than a degree in the past century. NO warming in the past decade, on land or at sea."

Inconvenient, or wonderful? Leave that to the High Foreheads to decide, I guess.

603 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:46:04am

re: #598 laZardo

I'm not sure, that model probably had some botox.

604 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:47:43am

re: #597 albusteve

there are no resources to exploit for the Lakota...it is their homeland because there were buffalo...Pine Ridge is the worst place in the world for a rez

Absolutely, when the Lakota have to go to Venezuela to get help, doesn't that conjure up a red flag to anyone?

605 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:47:51am

re: #594 American Sabra

re: #591 opnion

It's a line too easily crossed, not just in their pathology but among "outsiders" as well.

606 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:48:03am

re: #603 HAL2010

Oh, I thought you were talking about the banana. :D

607 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:48:13am

re: #586 albusteve YUP! And I missed it by SEVERAL THOUSAND MILES but I was there in spirit! LOL!

608 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:48:21am

re: #599 yma o hyd

Yeah I know, I do not like his comments, simply because they are a heaven send to Gordon, who will now make the whole damn campaign about healthcare. Although I do agree with him in principal (I am a member of the TFA and the conservative party and a libertarian), his comments, however true, damage our chances of winning the next election.

609 swamprat  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:49:16am

, re: #562 MandyManners

She passed it on to me and, I've passed it on to The Kid.
Of course, it could be re-labelled "pig-headed".

Found it!

* Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education alone will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.
John Calvin Coolidge

And of course;

Stubborness we deprecate,
Firmness we condone,
The former is our neighbors trait
The latter is our own.

610 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:49:22am

re: #606 laZardo

It depends. How many post can be sexually suggestive, without being obvious?

611 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:49:43am

re: #590 lawhawk
And I beat you both at #384! LOL!

612 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:50:45am

re: #604 American Sabra

Absolutely, when the Lakota have to go to Venezuela to get help, doesn't that conjure up a red flag to anyone?

agreed...it's our own home made humanitarian disaster...there is plenty of wealth here and there to provide for these folks...it's a disgrace

613 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:51:06am

re: #609 swamprat

,


Found it!

* Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education alone will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race. John Calvin Coolidge

And of course;

Stubborness we deprecate,
Firmness we condone,
The former is our neighbors trait
The latter is our own.

We need more of this attitude in society nowadays.

614 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:51:57am

re: #609 swamprat

And then the Great Depression happened to make this virtue shine.

/i think

615 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:52:16am

re: #610 HAL2010

Depends on what one sees as "suggestive."

If you know what I mean.

616 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:52:19am

re: #612 albusteve

agreed...it's our own home made humanitarian disaster...there is plenty of wealth here and there to provide for these folks...it's a disgrace

Aren't reservations considered sovereign land of the tribes?

617 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:52:23am

re: #599 yma o hyd
Hi there {yma} How are you this afternoon - early evening?!?

618 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:52:42am

And here's something to get your blood pressure up, if thats needed:

David Miliband: There are circumstances in which terrorism can be justifiable

From that link:
'Foreign Secretary David Miliband was accused last night of condoning terrorism after declaring that there were circumstances in which it was ‘justifiable’.
His remarks – made in support of the ANC’s armed struggle against apartheid in South Africa – were swiftly condemned by the Conservatives, who accused him of giving succour to the Taliban in Afghanistan.'

And:
'Last night, Shadow Foreign Secretary William Hague said the remarks were ill-judged. He said: ‘Ministers must be very careful before advancing any argument that seems to legitimise terrorism in some circumstances.
When so much of the efforts of our security services, and the sacrifices of our troops in Afghanistan, are devoted to defeating terrorists, this is hardly the time to argue that terrorism is sometimes acceptable.’

Gawd, the LL are truly Loony!

(William Hague, btw, is of course a Tory and will be our next Foreign Secretary.)

619 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:52:55am

re: #602 garycooper

Once more, with feeling: "Less than a degree in the past century. NO warming in the past decade, on land or at sea."

Inconvenient, or wonderful? Leave that to the High Foreheads to decide, I guess.

Ahhh, yes, you are the one who still refuses to look at actual data.

You are the one who brought a debunked list of 400 "scientists" , where many of the "scientists" were economists, political hacks and tv weathermen.

When Charles pointed it out to you. You said you already knew that the list had been debunked - and yet you brought it anyway.

Now as to less than a degree, you need to understand how dramatic a change that is over a whole planet and that not only is the temp going up, but the rate at which it is increasing is also going up.

Further. Had you actually read this, you would see that if you consider the present warming trivial, than you must consider the medieval warm period even more trivial.

As to high foreheads, I don't know about that, but you would feel less threatened by scientists and other smart people who actually know what they are talking about, if you took the time to open your eyes and think.

620 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:53:00am

re: #607 realwest

YUP! And I missed it by SEVERAL THOUSAND MILES but I was there in spirit! LOL!

our car broke down outside of Pittsburg...that was it for us..when we heard on the radio about the insane traffic problems we decided we were better off to go back home

621 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:53:14am

re: #611 realwest

And I beat you both at #384! LOL!

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I had this from yesterday
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

622 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:53:54am

re: #615 laZardo

Depends on what one sees as "suggestive."

If you know what I mean.

I don't know about "that", but I think I have a ... hunch?

623 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:53:55am
624 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:54:34am

re: #616 MandyManners

Aren't reservations considered sovereign land of the tribes?

pretty much yes...I think the feds have some jurisdiction with federal crime

625 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:54:35am

Buon giorno Lizardi!

Any meltdowns last night?

626 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:54:45am

re: #618 yma o hyd

Of course the war in Afghanistan is "unwinnable" if the MoD can't arse themselves to send the proper equipment over there!

/first thing I thought when I saw that poll...

627 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:55:12am

re: #597 albusteve

there are no resources to exploit for the Lakota...it is their homeland because there were buffalo...Pine Ridge is the worst place in the world for a rez

The best is Foxwoods in Connecticut. Their Casino & hotels are some of the best that you'll ever see. They are the largest chaitable contributor in the state , have their own Preferred Prrovider Network & RX program that they sell.
In the Casino, the guys that you see in the $3,000 suits are the Tribal Elders.

628 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:56:01am
629 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:56:01am

re: #625 austin_blue

Buon giorno Lizardi!

Any meltdowns last night?

ummm,, I had a big bowl of chocolate fudge brownie chunk ice cream that I left out for about 20 minutes before devouring. Some of it was melted down, but ALL of it was YUMMY

Does that count?

630 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:56:04am

re: #623 taxfreekiller

Pine Ridge is where it is because the gold was elsewhere.

yep...a rip off of epic proportion, unsettled to this day

631 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:57:16am

re: #608 HAL2010

Yeah I know, I do not like his comments, simply because they are a heaven send to Gordon, who will now make the whole damn campaign about healthcare. Although I do agree with him in principal (I am a member of the TFA and the conservative party and a libertarian), his comments, however true, damage our chances of winning the next election.

And that is the only reason why I thought his appearence and his comment was ill-judged: it doesn't do to damage the chances of a Tory win.
We can see again and again that NuLab is just waiting for such gaffes - and is also waiting for any morsles hinting at Cameron's policies once he's in 10 Downing Street: they will pinch any idea!

The latest is Alistair Darling (Finance) pinching the proposals Osborne (Tory, Shadow Finance) threw out recently in regard to the bonuses of bankers in those banks where the state holds a stake.
Now Darling will do it - even more so.
NuLab may be in its death trhoes - but theya re as shameless as ever.

632 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:57:44am

re: #619 LudwigVanQuixote

Ahhh, yes, you are the one who still refuses to look at actual data.

You are the one who brought a debunked list of 400 "scientists" , where many of the "scientists" were economists, political hacks and tv weathermen.

When Charles pointed it out to you. You said you already knew that the list had been debunked - and yet you brought it anyway.

Now as to less than a degree, you need to understand how dramatic a change that is over a whole planet and that not only is the temp going up, but the rate at which it is increasing is also going up.

Further. Had you actually read this, you would see that if you consider the present warming trivial, than you must consider the medieval warm period even more trivial.

As to high foreheads, I don't know about that, but you would feel less threatened by scientists and other smart people who actually know what they are talking about, if you took the time to open your eyes and think.

Wondering if you had a chance to read back into the thread of the 9th since comments have been added over the last week.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Particularly comments 1346-1348... Wondering your opinion.

633 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:58:06am

re: #616 MandyManners

Aren't reservations considered sovereign land of the tribes?

As I understand it, tribal sovereignty enables them to govern themselves. Excusing the wiki reference, it's described more here.

Still doesn't address the poverty on these reservations when others are given a hellofa lot more.

634 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:58:11am

re: #628 taxfreekiller

Obama's meltdown is not on lgf's but us well known in any case.

Just wait until ALL of his "programs" start getting shot down. We will see a meltdown of epic proportion.

635 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:58:37am

re: #625 austin_blue

Buon giorno Lizardi!

Any meltdowns last night?

No, everyone knows I work on Friday, Sat. and Sunday nights.

636 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:58:57am

re: #624 albusteve

pretty much yes...I think the feds have some jurisdiction with federal crime

What can be done to mobilize the tribal leadership to help the people improve their circumstances?

637 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:59:06am

re: #627 opnion

The best is Foxwoods in Connecticut. Their Casino & hotels are some of the best that you'll ever see. They are the largest chaitable contributor in the state , have their own Preferred Prrovider Network & RX program that they sell.
In the Casino, the guys that you see in the $3,000 suits are the Tribal Elders.

NM Tribes have some stuff going...much different history tho

[Link: www.golfcochititoday.com...]

638 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:59:32am

re: #618 yma o hyd

Hague sounds quite sane.

639 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 8:59:42am

re: #617 realwest

Hi there {yma} How are you this afternoon - early evening?!?

Hiya, {rw}!

We're ok, its grey outside - I just stuffed a pill down Madame's throat, which she only accepts because she gets a treat afterwards!

Hope you're fine and that its a lovely Sunday morning for you!

640 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:00:04am

re: #631 yma o hyd

Frankly, I do not believe it was a gaffe. It was far to calculated, he is too intelligent. Cameron is one strand of tory, Hannan another. Clearly there will be arguments and debates. But this is one opinion he should have spoken of either after the election, or even better, internally while discussing policy reviews.

641 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:00:15am

re: #622 HAL2010

Don't drop that hunch, just stay on it until you get it.

642 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:00:18am

re: #625 austin_blue

Buon giorno Lizardi!

Any meltdowns last night?

I went with The Kid to a neighbor's party so I missed out on any meltdowns and flounces.

643 swamprat  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:01:43am

re: #636 MandyManners

What can be done to mobilize the tribal leadership to help the people improve their circumstances?

Place an Indian to head the Bureau Of Indian Affairs.

644 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:01:52am

re: #626 laZardo

Of course the war in Afghanistan is "unwinnable" if the MoD can't arse themselves to send the proper equipment over there!

/first thing I thought when I saw that poll...

Yep - and we all know that!

But there will always be bleeding hearts ... I just wonder what they'd have said if the same reporting had been available at the Battle of the Somme - where tens of thosuands perished in the first few days ...

645 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:02:25am

re: #633 American Sabra

As I understand it, tribal sovereignty enables them to govern themselves. Excusing the wiki reference, it's described more here.

Still doesn't address the poverty on these reservations when others are given a hellofa lot more.

As I asked a moment ago, what can the tribal leadership do to help their citizens improve their lives?

646 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:02:42am

re: #563 SasquatchOnSteroids

Good Lord, there is not a single piece of junk food in this house.
I've looked twice. Panic attack.

Mix equal parts of salt, sugar and vegetable oil. Not perfect, but it'll do in an emergency.

647 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:02:54am

re: #634 VegasRick

Just wait until ALL of his "programs" start getting shot down. We will see a meltdown of epic proportion.

It's gonna get worse before it gets better

1st the banks
2nd the car companies
3rd health insurance

NEXT,,,COMING TO A CITY NEAR YOU SOON

WASHINGTON - The Obama administration, in a major shift on housing policy, is abandoning George W. Bush’s vision of creating an “ownership society’’ and instead plans to pump $4.25 billion of economic stimulus money into creating tens of thousands of federally subsidized rental units in American cities.

[Link: www.boston.com...]

648 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:03:01am

Here is a topic of discussion:

We have achieved the operational goals we set out in 2001 regarding Afghanistan. True or false?

649 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:03:07am

re: #643 swamprat

Place an Indian to head the Bureau Of Indian Affairs.

Has that ever been done?

650 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:04:24am
651 swamprat  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:04:38am

re: #649 MandyManners

I don't think so. And it is justifiably a sore point.

652 Last Mohican  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:04:46am

re: #373 Pianobuff

Vaccine news is often linked to conspiracy theories. This one sounds like it might be different, though, and worth a read.

Swine flu jab link to killer nerve disease: Leaked letter reveals concern of neurologists over 25 deaths in America

Any doctors out there that may know whether there's any merit to this?

There's a kernel of truth to this article, but it's basically just stupid, inflammatory propaganda.

Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS) basically results from one's immune system attacking one's own nerves. It's usually triggered by some kind of infection that revs up the immune system. In North America and Europe, by far the most common infection is Campylobacter jejuni, a bacterium that causes bad diarrhea. However, GBS can also be triggered by various medications and vaccinations. This is very rare. One study found that, over two seasons of flu vaccinations, the vaccine caused approximately 1.7 cases of GBS per million vaccinations. Another study found no increased risk at all.

The "Swine Flu Debacle of 1976" is the basis of the the letter described in this article. That year, about 40 million people received the vaccine, and 532 cases of vaccine-related GBS were detected. The CDC estimated that the risk of GBS from receiving the vaccine was about 1 in 1000, which was seven times greater than the risk to the general population. At least, these are the figures that I've read. The math doesn't seem to work out to me, but that's what I've read.

The 1976 "debacle" is often cited as an example of the dangers of vaccination, because the flu itself turned out to kill fewer people than the vaccine did. However, this year's swine flu vaccination has not been shown to be linked to an increased risk of GBS. The Health Protection Agency was merely suggesting to doctors that they be alert and keep track of the development of any complications, should they occur. It's pretty much standard practice whenever any new drug is released.

653 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:04:47am

re: #636 MandyManners

What can be done to mobilize the tribal leadership to help the people improve their circumstances?

I don't see how than can improve themselves in that area...it's desolate and forbidding...they want the Black Hills back and I don't blame them...there is well over a hundred million in federal money in escrow in the bank...the Sioux won't touch it...if they do the spirit is broken

654 Killian Bundy  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:04:52am

Row over Afghan wife-starving law

Afghan legislation allowing a husband to starve his wife if she refuses to have sex has been published in the official gazette and become law.

The original bill caused outrage earlier this year, forcing Afghan President Hamid Karzai to withdraw it.

But critics say the amended version of the law remains highly repressive.

They accuse Mr Karzai of selling out Afghan women for the sake of conservative Shia support at next week's presidential election.

The law governs family life for Afghanistan's Shia minority.

Sexual demands

The original version obliged Shia women to have sex with their husbands every four days at a minimum, and it effectively condoned rape by removing the need for consent to sex within marriage.

The original bill caused outrage within Afghanistan and around the world
Western leaders and Afghan women's groups were united in condemning an apparent reversal of key freedoms won by women after the fall of the Taliban.

Now an amended version of the same bill has passed quietly into law with the apparent approval of President Karzai.

/Hamid Karzai, he's our man, if he can't win, no one can!

656 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:05:31am

BBIAB

657 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:06:31am

re: #648 HAL2010

Here is a topic of discussion:

We have achieved the operational goals we set out in 2001 regarding Afghanistan. True or false?

Bin Laden being dead? Very likely true.
His henchmen and terror network still being a threat to the region and the world? Currently false, but working on it with variable degrees of persistence.

658 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:06:40am

re: #638 MandyManners

Hague sounds quite sane.

He would - he's a Tory!

:-)))

659 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:06:47am

White House appears ready to drop 'public option'

WASHINGTON – Apparently ready to abandon the idea, President Barack Obama's health secretary said Sunday a government alternative to private health insurance is "not the essential element" of the administration's health care overhaul.

The White House indicated it could jettison the contentious public option and settle on insurance cooperatives as an acceptable alternative, a move embraced by some Republicans lawmakers who have strongly opposed the administration's approach so far.

Officials from both political parties reached across the aisle in an effort to find compromises on proposals they left behind when they returned to their districts for an August recess. Obama has been pressing for the government to run a health insurance organization to help cover the nation's almost 50 million uninsured.

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said the White House would be open to co-ops instead of a government-run public option, a sign Democrats want a compromise so they can declare a victory on the must-win showdown.

"I think there will be a competitor to private insurers," she said. "That's really the essential part, is you don't turn over the whole new marketplace to private insurance companies and trust them to do the right thing. We need some choices, we need some competition."

Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., said co-ops might be a politically acceptable alternative as "a step away from the government takeover of the health care system" that the GOP has assailed.

Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., chairman of the Senate's budget committee, pushed the co-op model as an alternative, saying it has worked in other business models.

As proposed by Conrad, the co-ops would receive federal startup money, but then would operate independently of the government. They would have to maintain the same financial reserves that private companies are required to keep to handle unexpectedly high claims.

Republicans say a public option would have unfair advantages that would drive private insurers out of business. Critics say co-ops would not be genuine public options for health insurance.

Anyone have a feel for just how "public" (or not) these co-ops would be?

660 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:06:55am

re: #647 sattv4u2

It's gonna get worse before it gets better

1st the banks
2nd the car companies
3rd health insurance

NEXT,,,COMING TO A CITY NEAR YOU SOON

WASHINGTON - The Obama administration, in a major shift on housing policy, is abandoning George W. Bush’s vision of creating an “ownership society’’ and instead plans to pump $4.25 billion of economic stimulus money into creating tens of thousands of federally subsidized rental units in American cities.

[Link: www.boston.com...]

Lovely.

661 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:06:59am

re: #634 VegasRick

Just wait until ALL of his "programs" start getting shot down. We will see a meltdown of epic proportion.


Obama has been pampered from the time Grandma took over his care (You know old rfacist Toot , that he tossed off of the Sled)
She doted on him & sent him to the best prep school in Hawaii, Where by his own admission he was a "Stoned" poor student.
No problem, academic Scholarship to College in LA & then off to the Ivy league, onto Harvard Law Review President, submitting no articles.
Community Oraganizer , to the Illinois Senate & a stop for a cup of coffee in the U.S Senate while campaigning & being elected President without a whole lot of scrutiny.
He will not handle adversity well.

662 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:07:02am

re: #651 swamprat

I don't think so. And it is justifiably a sore point.

Isn't there an on-going law suit against the U.S. about moneys owed to at least one tribe?

663 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:07:44am

re: #653 albusteve

I don't see how than can improve themselves in that area...it's desolate and forbidding...they want the Black Hills back and I don't blame them...there is well over a hundred million in federal money in escrow in the bank...the Sioux won't touch it...if they do the spirit is broken

Huh?

664 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:08:17am

re: #649 MandyManners

Has that ever been done?

There has always been Indians in the Bureau. Kevin Skenandore is the current head, but I don't know his background. Larry Echohawk is the current Assistant Secretary.

What can be done? You mean without government intervention? Probably very little.

665 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:08:33am

re: #655 Gang of One

Egads.

Freedom is messy.

666 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:08:34am

re: #652 Last Mohican

There's a kernel of truth to this article, but it's basically just stupid, inflammatory propaganda.

Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS) basically results from one's immune system attacking one's own nerves. It's usually triggered by some kind of infection that revs up the immune system. In North America and Europe, by far the most common infection is Campylobacter jejuni, a bacterium that causes bad diarrhea. However, GBS can also be triggered by various medications and vaccinations. This is very rare. One study found that, over two seasons of flu vaccinations, the vaccine caused approximately 1.7 cases of GBS per million vaccinations. Another study found no increased risk at all.

The "Swine Flu Debacle of 1976" is the basis of the the letter described in this article. That year, about 40 million people received the vaccine, and 532 cases of vaccine-related GBS were detected. The CDC estimated that the risk of GBS from receiving the vaccine was about 1 in 1000, which was seven times greater than the risk to the general population. At least, these are the figures that I've read. The math doesn't seem to work out to me, but that's what I've read.

The 1976 "debacle" is often cited as an example of the dangers of vaccination, because the flu itself turned out to kill fewer people than the vaccine did. However, this year's swine flu vaccination has not been shown to be linked to an increased risk of GBS. The Health Protection Agency was merely suggesting to doctors that they be alert and keep track of the development of any complications, should they occur. It's pretty much standard practice whenever any new drug is released.

Thank you for the added info. I don't want my ears to be so plugged to news about vaccines that no input is allowed. Good post.

667 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:08:42am

re: #657 laZardo

Bin Laden being dead? Very likely true.
His henchmen and terror network still being a threat to the region and the world? Currently false, but working on it with variable degrees of persistence.

Don't conflate Al-Qaeda with Afghanistan. Al-Qaeda are not based there anymore, following the campaign of 2001.
So the question still stand in my opinion.

668 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:08:50am

re: #661 opnion

Obama has been pampered from the time Grandma took over his care (You know old rfacist Toot , that he tossed off of the Sled)
She doted on him & sent him to the best prep school in Hawaii, Where by his own admission he was a "Stoned" poor student.
No problem, academic Scholarship to College in LA & then off to the Ivy league, onto Harvard Law Review President, submitting no articles.
Community Oraganizer , to the Illinois Senate & a stop for a cup of coffee in the U.S Senate while campaigning & being elected President without a whole lot of scrutiny.
He will not handle adversity well.

Temper tantrums in 3...2...1.

669 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:09:34am

re: #664 American Sabra

There has always been Indians in the Bureau. Kevin Skenandore is the current head, but I don't know his background. Larry Echohawk is the current Assistant Secretary.

What can be done? You mean without government intervention? Probably very little.

Maybe governmental but, also social and cultural.

670 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:10:17am

I don't believe the BIA is very well respected among the tribes, although maybe TFK could elaborate more on that.

671 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:10:39am

I'll be back. Time to reload the batteries for a short while (getting a cuppa and, if I can find any, biscuits)

672 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:10:45am
673 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:10:51am

re: #663 MandyManners

Huh?

they don't want the money for the Black Hills...it is their land by federal law...if they take the money they relinquish their rights to it and break their ancestoral spiritual bond ...it's mighty strong juju

674 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:10:59am

Kathleen Sebilus just dropped an outrageous comment on CNN.
"We spend more that any other country on healthcare & we get outcomes of a developing country."
We actually have the best clinical outcomes in the world & if she doesn't know that she should inform herself.

675 Sloppy  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:11:12am

Re: reservations

Consider where reservations are sited. They tend to be in places like Nebraska, South Dakota and the desert Southwest. Out of sight, out of mind. I suspect that if one were in NYC or LA, the MFM would flock to it, turn its conditions into a Cause, and politicians would be goaded into at least trying to make humanitarian improvements.

676 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:11:21am

re: #427 Irish Rose

Nice Tony, can I add you to my blogroll?

Thanks Irish Rose ... feel free to add me to your menu.

677 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:11:49am

re: #673 albusteve

they don't want the money for the Black Hills...it is their land by federal law...if they take the money they relinquish their rights to it and break their ancestoral spiritual bond ...it's mighty strong juju

Well, that's on them.

678 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:12:12am

re: #674 opnion

Kathleen Sebilus just dropped an outrageous comment on CNN.
"We spend more that any other country on healthcare & we get outcomes of a developing country."
We actually have the best clinical outcomes in the world & if she doesn't know that she should inform herself.

She is informed. She has been inform, by what ever or who ever, that the MSM must do what they can to promote Barry's soft-socialism plans.

679 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:12:22am

re: #667 HAL2010

We could delete "the region" from the previous category seeing as how there are cells and "affiliated" groups all over the world though.

680 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:12:42am

re: #640 HAL2010

Frankly, I do not believe it was a gaffe. It was far to calculated, he is too intelligent. Cameron is one strand of tory, Hannan another. Clearly there will be arguments and debates. But this is one opinion he should have spoken of either after the election, or even better, internally while discussing policy reviews.

Well - he says himself, in his blog, that his opinion is not new, and is know within the Tory party. He's written about it in the small book, 'The Plan', which he co-authored with Dominic Carswell.
So a gaffe it probably wasn't, I agree - on the other hand, he is very well known in the USA, ever since he took on Brown in front of the EU Parliament. Thus its no surprise to anyone that he'd be asked for his take on this issue.
At least this whole thing shows that there are independent thinkers in the Tory party, and that they are not 'herded' like in NuLab, where people have to be 'on message', or else!

681 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:12:46am

re: #429 MandyManners

I love your vine!

Thanks Mandy ... You just gave me an idea ... I think I'll add a section on wine.

682 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:12:50am

re: #677 MandyManners

Well, that's on them.

the land belongs to them, and the feds know it

683 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:12:58am

re: #678 Walter L. Newton

She is informed. She has been inform, by what ever or who ever, that the MSM must do what they can to promote Barry's soft-socialism plans.

Bingo!

684 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:13:11am

re: #669 MandyManners

Maybe governmental but, also social and cultural.

I don't believe it's a cultural issue really. Any assimilation has already been done. Like I say, we're talking basic human needs. The question is how do you create jobs and provide good education on these reservations to enable them to help themselves? If the government doesn't intervene, I don't know how else to deal with it.

685 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:13:12am

re: #674 opnion

Kathleen Sebilus just dropped an outrageous comment on CNN.
"We spend more that any other country on healthcare & we get outcomes of a developing country."
We actually have the best clinical outcomes in the world & if she doesn't know that she should inform herself.

Was she challenged on it? (I should know... but I'm asking anyway)

686 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:13:16am

re: #668 VegasRick

Temper tantrums in 3...2...1.

Look for him & his minions to drop a deck of race cards.

687 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:13:20am

re: #601 American Sabra
Reservations for the First Americans are almost all horrid places. And while albustve thinks Pine Ridge is the WORST PLACE for a reservation, he hasn't been to any of the Apache reservations in Arizona - I mean nothing there except cacti and sand - the good stuff (mostly silver and some gold) we took out of there over a hundred years ago. BUT, Reservations are legally special places: their own laws, police forces and courts (so long as they don't violtate the US Constitution and then in a VERY blatant way) and for the most part their own economy. Except for the very SIGNIFICANT difference of lack of violence against people off the Res, the First Americans frequently seem to me to be treated by the rest of us the same way that Arabs treat the Palestinians and at least the Palestianians have choices that don't involve murder, but choose to spurn those choices.
I don't know what the answer is to the problems that the First Americans face on Reservations; no one forces them to live on the Reservations and I would think they could maintain their cultures if they moved off the Reservations altogether.

688 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:13:52am

re: #675 Sloppy

Re: reservations

Consider where reservations are sited. They tend to be in places like Nebraska, South Dakota and the desert Southwest. Out of sight, out of mind. I suspect that if one were in NYC or LA, the MFM would flock to it, turn its conditions into a Cause, and politicians would be goaded into at least trying to make humanitarian improvements.

NM reservations are homeground for Tribes...some for over a thousand years

689 Gang of One  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:13:59am

re: #665 MandyManners

Egads.

Freedom is messy.

Yes. BTW, is there any relation?
/Watch out for the Steel Hanky®!

690 kansas  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:14:02am

re: #373 Pianobuff

Vaccine news is often linked to conspiracy theories. This one sounds like it might be different, though, and worth a read.

Swine flu jab link to killer nerve disease: Leaked letter reveals concern of neurologists over 25 deaths in America

Any doctors out there that may know whether there's any merit to this?

Not an MD doctor, but...the disease is Guillain Barre or GBS and one of the first things asked in a hospital when patient presents with ascending paralysis is if they have had a flu shot. In 1976 the swine flu program was stopped because of this. Anecdote..my wife had GBS in 2005. Thursday we had a conference with a doctor for an elective procedure and she put that on her entry form. The guy asked how she got GBS because he had it when he was 14 from a flu shot. They'll say it's very rare but it's not. Whether or not it's better to take the risk and have the immunization, I don't know. I do think that comparing current flu epidemics to the outbreak in 1918 is a bad analogy because...well it was 1918 even before penicillin.

691 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:14:11am

re: #686 opnion

Look for him & his minions to drop a deck of race cards.

Six. Deck. Shoe.

692 swamprat  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:14:33am

re: #662 MandyManners


No idea.

693 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:14:35am

re: #674 opnion

Kathleen Sebilus just dropped an outrageous comment on CNN.
"We spend more that any other country on healthcare & we get outcomes of a developing country."
We actually have the best clinical outcomes in the world & if she doesn't know that she should inform herself.

It chaps my hide when someone cites our infant mortality rate as being low because that statistic does not take into account all the preemies who spend weeks and months on machines in NICU and die anyway.

694 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:14:51am

re: #675 Sloppy

Re: reservations

Consider where reservations are sited. They tend to be in places like Nebraska, South Dakota and the desert Southwest. Out of sight, out of mind. I suspect that if one were in NYC or LA, the MFM would flock to it, turn its conditions into a Cause, and politicians would be goaded into at least trying to make humanitarian improvements.

Yes, in fact, indigenous people have thrived a lot better in urban areas v. rural even without gaming.

695 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:15:42am

re: #681 _RememberTonyC

Thanks Mandy ... You just gave me an idea ... I think I'll add a section on wine.

Sounds good.

696 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:16:17am

re: #682 albusteve

the land belongs to them, and the feds know it

Has there been a court ruling on the issue?

697 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:16:29am

I have resevations about this whole Indian thing.
///sorry

698 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:16:47am

re: #678 Walter L. Newton

She is informed. She has been inform, by what ever or who ever, that the MSM must do what they can to promote Barry's soft-socialism plans.


Your correct, of course she knows better, she was the Commisioner of Insurance in Kansas

699 swamprat  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:16:48am

re: #664 American Sabra

Did not know that. Thank you.

700 kansas  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:16:56am

PS, article I saw on the GBS swine flu shot correlation was from the UK.

701 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:16:58am

re: #684 American Sabra

I don't believe it's a cultural issue really. Any assimilation has already been done. Like I say, we're talking basic human needs. The question is how do you create jobs and provide good education on these reservations to enable them to help themselves? If the government doesn't intervene, I don't know how else to deal with it.

How can the feds intervene if they have no power?

702 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:17:32am

re: #632 Pianobuff

Well, two quick things.

1. Coracle is another professional scientist. He's a geologist and he is careful what he says.

2. Optomizer doubts that carbon stays in the atmosphere longer than any of the other GHGs like water vapor. In fact he dismisses it as a crazy claim.

He is dead wrong. In fact, the fact he says it only shows how divorced from actual data and reality he is on the issues. The accepted claim by IPCC and numerous others, is that CO2 lingers in the atmosphere for greater than century timescales. There are those in the community who feel that this is a lowball estimate.

[Link: www.nature.com...]

The bottom line is that CO2 lives up there for at least century timescales. This is very well known. Anyone who starts a "debate" by dismissing this fact, is comparable to someone starting a talk about sunlight scattering in the atmosphere by dismissing as crazy, the idea that the sky is blue.

The "deniers" are not skeptics. They really are out and out deniers. They are willing to deny anything that they don't like. On the other hand, you can reason with a skeptic.

My opinion on this is that the use of these threads is to try to clear up misinformation for the general lizard and give them honest resources to look at. However, there is no point in trying to debate the true believers. They do not debate. They only lie, misrepresent and refuse to look at facts.

703 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:17:39am

re: #621 sattv4u2
You, you,...bubble burster you!
I had something yesterday BEFORE THAT but won't waste anyone's time sending 'em back there!
or something like that.

704 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:17:40am

re: #691 VegasRick

Jack of Buses? Racial Flush?

/

705 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:17:45am
706 Gang of One  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:17:53am

re: #697 VegasRick

I have resevations about this whole Indian thing.
///sorry

*WHACK*
/Mandy Manners mode

707 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:18:24am

re: #698 opnion

Your correct, of course she knows better, she was the Commisioner of Insurance in Kansas

The good thing about this whole debacle is the way these politicians are shitting all over themselves for a losing cause. I like it.

708 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:18:24am

re: #691 VegasRick

Six. Deck. Shoe.

Rick, I can tell that you live in Veags. How are things in the Great Southwest today?

709 Last Mohican  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:18:55am

re: #690 kansas

I'm so sorry your wife had GBS. I hope she at least hasn't had any permanent lasting effects.

The 1976 Swine Flue vaccine was indeed linked to an increased risk of developing GBS. As I said above, the CDC estimated that risk to be 1 in 1000, which was seven times higher than the risk in the general population. However, the risk was lower or nonexistent for subsequent flu shots. A study in the 1990's estimated the increased risk to be 1.7 cases per million vaccinations. Another more recent study found no increased risk at all.

710 jaunte  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:19:04am

Bad deal:

Tim Giago:
Indian nations gave up millions of acres of land in exchange for the right to an education and adequate health care. These two provisions are a part of nearly every treaty signed between the United States of America and the Indian nations. It is not welfare the US is providing, but an obligation in fulfillment of treaty rights.[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
711 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:19:49am

re: #689 Gang of One

Yes. BTW, is there any relation?
/Watch out for the Steel Hanky®!

I'm reminded of The Ransom of Red Chief.

712 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:19:59am

re: #700 kansas

PS, article I saw on the GBS swine flu shot correlation was from the UK.

Thanks. There's a lot of tabloid stuff I've read about vaccines, but since I'm not an MD it's hard for me to tell the difference. It sounded like there might be some level of credence to this one, which is why I put the question out there.re: #702 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, two quick things.

1. Coracle is another professional scientist. He's a geologist and he is careful what he says.

2. Optomizer doubts that carbon stays in the atmosphere longer than any of the other GHGs like water vapor. In fact he dismisses it as a crazy claim.

He is dead wrong. In fact, the fact he says it only shows how divorced from actual data and reality he is on the issues. The accepted claim by IPCC and numerous others, is that CO2 lingers in the atmosphere for greater than century timescales. There are those in the community who feel that this is a lowball estimate.

[Link: www.nature.com...]

The bottom line is that CO2 lives up there for at least century timescales. This is very well known. Anyone who starts a "debate" by dismissing this fact, is comparable to someone starting a talk about sunlight scattering in the atmosphere by dismissing as crazy, the idea that the sky is blue.

The "deniers" are not skeptics. They really are out and out deniers. They are willing to deny anything that they don't like. On the other hand, you can reason with a skeptic.

My opinion on this is that the use of these threads is to try to clear up misinformation for the general lizard and give them honest resources to look at. However, there is no point in trying to debate the true believers. They do not debate. They only lie, misrepresent and refuse to look at facts.

I was thinking more of Pythagoras's comments where it looked like Pyth and Coracle were finding some common ground...a little bit anyway.

713 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:20:28am

re: #687 realwest

Reservations for the First Americans are almost all horrid places. And while albustve thinks Pine Ridge is the WORST PLACE for a reservation, he hasn't been to any of the Apache reservations in Arizona - I mean nothing there except cacti and sand - the good stuff (mostly silver and some gold) we took out of there over a hundred years ago. BUT, Reservations are legally special places: their own laws, police forces and courts (so long as they don't violtate the US Constitution and then in a VERY blatant way) and for the most part their own economy. Except for the very SIGNIFICANT difference of lack of violence against people off the Res, the First Americans frequently seem to me to be treated by the rest of us the same way that Arabs treat the Palestinians and at least the Palestianians have choices that don't involve murder, but choose to spurn those choices.
I don't know what the answer is to the problems that the First Americans face on Reservations; no one forces them to live on the Reservations and I would think they could maintain their cultures if they moved off the Reservations altogether.

I have visited several reservations in Arizona...the only one in the desert that I know of is the vast Pima Rez south of Phoenix...Ft Apache and San Carlos are both well watered from the white river watershed, and some mighty pretty country

714 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:20:32am

re: #704 laZardo

Jack of Buses? Racial Flush?

/

Queen of pumps.

715 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:20:38am

re: #692 swamprat

No idea.

Same here. What I know about the issue could fit into a fairy's bra cup with room to spare.

716 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:20:50am

712 has two responses ... one for LVQ and one for Kansas. Accidentally came out that way, of course.

717 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:20:59am

re: #706 Gang of One

*WHACK*
/Mandy Manners mode

I had it coming.

718 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:21:10am

re: #647 sattv4u2
But of course! Everyone knows that the great American Dream is to Rent Your Own Home!
/EXTREMELY HEAVY.

719 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:21:19am

re: #687 realwest

...I don't know what the answer is to the problems that the First Americans face on Reservations; no one forces them to live on the Reservations and I would think they could maintain their cultures if they moved off the Reservations altogether.

The way I see it, they are absolutely forced to leave the reservation. They simple can't live there. Considering how much attention we give to others, they should be allowed the choice to live with their own people and still thrive and many simply can't do it.

It's like a silent genocide. If they live outside the rez, they lose their culture. Same with Jews. If you don't live or participate with your people, you lose the traditions.

720 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:22:10am

The Kid is back.

721 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:22:16am

re: #708 opnion

Rick, I can tell that you live in Veags. How are things in the Great Southwest today?

AWESOME. Around 100 today and all of next week. I love this new global warming.

722 Gang of One  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:22:27am

re: #717 VegasRick

I had it coming.

Yes, you did. :>)

723 Gang of One  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:23:07am

re: #715 MandyManners

Same here. What I know about the issue could fit into a fairy's bra cup with room to spare.

I am so stealing that. The GF will bust a gut when she hears it!

724 yma o hyd  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:23:14am

Gotta go and feed Madame ...

BBIAB!

725 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:23:15am

re: #679 laZardo

Well, that is my point. Afghanistan is no longer a safe haven for Al-Qaeda. I would argue that Pakistan has therefore become far more of a threat (or rather, elements within its borders).
So, why are we in Afghanistan?

If we are there to build democracy, surely we must accept that we have to be there for the next 40 years.

726 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:23:20am

re: #707 VegasRick

The good thing about this whole debacle is the way these politicians are shitting all over themselves for a losing cause. I like it.

This is a defining moment for the Obama Presidency.
They will cut their losses & take out the end of life counseling & the public option just to pass something. They will call it victory, but the truth will be pretty obvious.
His aura of invincability will be shatterd & the mid-term election could be ugly for BHO & he will not be odds on for a 2nd term.
Good!

727 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:23:31am

re: #652 Last Mohican
Hey Last Mohican - thank you for that comment!

728 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:23:33am

re: #659 Pianobuff

White House appears ready to drop 'public option'

Anyone have a feel for just how "public" (or not) these co-ops would be?

So, they're getting rid of the "public option" by...keeping it, and calling it something else.

If the government is running these companies, it's still the public option. I see no attempt to let the private sector manage coverage. Just an attempt to put lipstick on the pig, sneak it in through the back door and pass it off as a high-class hooker during the drunken celebrations over "victory" in the wake of the Dems "abandonment of the public option.

729 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:23:51am

re: #714 VegasRick

GrayJack?

/the original name was deemed racist

730 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:24:16am

re: #726 opnion

This is a defining moment for the Obama Presidency.
They will cut their losses & take out the end of life counseling & the public option just to pass something. They will call it victory, but the truth will be pretty obvious.
His aura of invincability will be shatterd & the mid-term election could be ugly for BHO & he will not be odds on for a 2nd term.
Good!

Yep!

731 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:24:34am

re: #725 HAL2010

That and to keep them from getting back in? Probably a "pincer" tactic with the Pakistanis.

732 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:24:37am

re: #680 yma o hyd

Well - he says himself, in his blog, that his opinion is not new, and is know within the Tory party. He's written about it in the small book, 'The Plan', which he co-authored with Dominic Carswell.
So a gaffe it probably wasn't, I agree - on the other hand, he is very well known in the USA, ever since he took on Brown in front of the EU Parliament. Thus its no surprise to anyone that he'd be asked for his take on this issue.
At least this whole thing shows that there are independent thinkers in the Tory party, and that they are not 'herded' like in NuLab, where people have to be 'on message', or else!

Agreed. And he is an MEP. Had he been an MP it would have been very different.

733 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:25:27am

re: #694 American Sabra

Yes, in fact, indigenous people have thrived a lot better in urban areas v. rural even without gaming.

And thats because they assimilated to the urban setting as ooposed to "keeping the old ways" in their rural/ tribal reservation ones. Diametrically opposed to what you stated in #684

Any assimilation has already been done

No, it hasn't

734 kansas  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:25:27am

re: #709 Last Mohican

I'm so sorry your wife had GBS. I hope she at least hasn't had any permanent lasting effects.

The 1976 Swine Flue vaccine was indeed linked to an increased risk of developing GBS. As I said above, the CDC estimated that risk to be 1 in 1000, which was seven times higher than the risk in the general population. However, the risk was lower or nonexistent for subsequent flu shots. A study in the 1990's estimated the increased risk to be 1.7 cases per million vaccinations. Another more recent study found no increased risk at all.

Thanks so much. She has had pretty much a full recovery. Her stamina never did return to normal and we think there are some coordination issues as she has had couple of falls here and there. You know, seeing her patellar reflex being absent and then returning made our neurologist cry actually. Anyway, her issue was not related to a flu shot. In the days prior she had received a couple of insect bites, which they said could not have been related, a forehead botox shot, which they said could not be related, and had undergone a routine colonoscopy. I'm going with the camphylobacter from the colonoscopy but they never knew. At the worst of hers she was paralyzed from the waist down, was devoloping difficulty breathing and swallowing, and had facial paralysis. IGB and plasmaphoresis seemed halt the progression and recovery ensued. It was 2 weeks in critical care, 2 months on a walker, 2 months on a cane and then slowly back to normal. It was tough on her.

735 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:25:40am

re: #729 laZardo

GrayJack?

/the original name was deemed racist

"Queen of spades" has always been a topic of conversation in Vegas.

736 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:25:59am

re: #728 SixDegrees

So, they're getting rid of the "public option" by...keeping it, and calling it something else.

If the government is running these companies, it's still the public option. I see no attempt to let the private sector manage coverage. Just an attempt to put lipstick on the pig, sneak it in through the back door and pass it off as a high-class hooker during the drunken celebrations over "victory" in the wake of the Dems "abandonment of the public option.

They might be able to move a small number of R senators over to their side with this, no?

737 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:26:11am

re: #721 VegasRick

AWESOME. Around 100 today and all of next week. I love this new global warming.

100 degrees! Call Al Gore, we're doomed. Vegas has never been 100 degrees before, ever! Arrest Bush.

738 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:26:28am

re: #712 Pianobuff

As to tipping points, without turning this into a mathematics lecture - which is very difficult to do without an equation editor anyway, this is a good summary of the use of the word and what we are talking about from realclimate.

[Link: www.realclimate.org...]

739 Gang of One  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:26:29am

re: #719 American Sabra

The way I see it, they are absolutely forced to leave the reservation. They simple can't live there. Considering how much attention we give to others, they should be allowed the choice to live with their own people and still thrive and many simply can't do it.

It's like a silent genocide. If they live outside the rez, they lose their culture. Same with Jews. If you don't live or participate with your people, you lose the traditions.

Yes and no, Sabra. Jews have lived outside of Israel/Canaan/Judea for millenia, but they have not lost their identity -- specifically because they have kept the Jewish community/soul/spirit together, as you say. Is this not possible for First Americans outside of a reservation?

740 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:26:36am

re: #701 MandyManners

How can the feds intervene if they have no power?

There are lots of government programs for N.A. I found a list here. Obviously there seems to be something lacking. I don't know the details.

741 Macker  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:27:01am

re: #707 VegasRick

The good thing about this whole debacle is the way these politicians are shitting all over themselves for a losing cause. I like it.

Which reminds me of a certain alternate reality novel by a certain world leader who emigrated to the United States after the Great War and became...and artist and writer! He specifically spelled out what the enemies of the novel's protagonist did when they battled the forces of Helder.

742 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:27:05am

re: #731 laZardo

Sure. But if he play a bit of realpolitik for a while, would it not be far cheaper simply to bomb facilities,camps and known leaders as they arise?
This is what we arre currently doing in Pakistan.

743 swamprat  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:28:00am

re: #659 Pianobuff

744 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:29:10am

re: #733 sattv4u2

And thats because they assimilated to the urban setting as ooposed to "keeping the old ways" in their rural/ tribal reservation ones. Diametrically opposed to what you stated in #684

Any assimilation has already been done

No, it hasn't

each tribe has to be judged separately...obviously the worst off are the tribes of the central plains that thrived on the buffalo...the federal policy toward them was extermination...the cultures of NM are completely different and it is much easier to preserve customs and languages

745 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:29:14am

re: #737 opnion

100 degrees! Call Al Gore, we're doomed. Vegas has never been 100 degrees before, ever! Arrest Bush.

re: #737 opnion

100 degrees! Call Al Gore, we're doomed. Vegas has never been 100 degrees before, ever! Arrest Bush.

746 avanti  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:29:37am

re: #672 taxfreekiller

See post 650.

Key word, "non profit".

They use shell games still.

Like Blue Cross/Blue Shield. (non profit)

747 Last Mohican  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:29:58am

re: #734 kansas

I guess you may never know for sure what caused it. That must have been really hard on her, and you.

748 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:30:01am

re: #742 HAL2010

It's probably an internal budgeting problem then...

749 laZardo  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:30:15am

Have to sleep, class tomorrow. Nighty!

750 Gang of One  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:30:22am

re: #739 Gang of One

Yes and no, Sabra. Jews have lived outside of Israel/Canaan/Judea for millenia, but they have not lost their identity -- specifically because they have kept the Jewish community/soul/spirit together, as you say. Is this not possible for First Americans outside of a reservation?

I wanted to also mention that a fair number of Jews, wishing to assimilate [especially in the New World] have left the more rigorous traditions of Judaism [kashrut, shomer shabbat, observing mitzot] behind.

751 Macker  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:30:47am

re: #744 albusteve

each tribe has to be judged separately...obviously the worst off are the tribes of the central plains that thrived on the buffalo...the federal policy toward them was extermination...the cultures of NM are completely different and it is much easier to preserve customs and languages

Just ask the Japanese.

752 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:31:11am

re: #674 opnion

Kathleen Sebilus just dropped an outrageous comment on CNN.
"We spend more that any other country on healthcare & we get outcomes of a developing country."
We actually have the best clinical outcomes in the world & if she doesn't know that she should inform herself.

This is an increasingly popular lie being spread by supporters of nationalized health care. But attempting to conflate the amount of money spent on medical care with outcomes in this way is ludicrous. The total amount of health care dollars being used includes every tummy tuck, liposuction, botox injection, bood job, dick extension, tinted contact lens prescription, teeth whitening procedure, viagra prescription and a thousand other non-essential elective procedures and prescriptions. This is an attempt to portray medicine as a zero sum game in which the rich suck up all the resources and the poor get nothing, which in fact the amount spent on actual, essential health care is only a fraction of this total.

A nationalized system will do absolutely nothing to change this; those with the funds will still spend them on non-critical care like this. Unless Sebelius is trying to claim that procedures like these are somehow "essential" enough to be mandatory for everyone, she's drawing a completely false analogy.

Or, to put it more bluntly, she's full of shit up to her eyebrows.

753 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:32:29am

re: #736 Pianobuff

They might be able to move a small number of R senators over to their side with this, no?

It's possible, if the Republicans aren't paying any attention.

Like I said upthread, we need to be very wary of winning battles like this, and losing the war in the end.

754 kansas  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:32:34am

re: #752 SixDegrees

This is an increasingly popular lie being spread by supporters of nationalized health care. But attempting to conflate the amount of money spent on medical care with outcomes in this way is ludicrous. The total amount of health care dollars being used includes every tummy tuck, liposuction, botox injection, bood job, dick extension, tinted contact lens prescription, teeth whitening procedure, viagra prescription and a thousand other non-essential elective procedures and prescriptions. This is an attempt to portray medicine as a zero sum game in which the rich suck up all the resources and the poor get nothing, which in fact the amount spent on actual, essential health care is only a fraction of this total.

A nationalized system will do absolutely nothing to change this; those with the funds will still spend them on non-critical care like this. Unless Sebelius is trying to claim that procedures like these are somehow "essential" enough to be mandatory for everyone, she's drawing a completely false analogy.

Or, to put it more bluntly, she's full of shit up to her eyebrows.

Seems like it's necessary to lie to get this passed, and to lie to get it defeated. Getting more depressing by the day.

755 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:32:54am

re: #733 sattv4u2

And thats because they assimilated to the urban setting as ooposed to "keeping the old ways" in their rural/ tribal reservation ones. Diametrically opposed to what you stated in #684

Any assimilation has already been done

No, it hasn't

What I meant is, if I can explain this properly, that they are already assimilated in the sense that they are a part of "modern" society. It doesn't mean that they can't maintain their own language or spirituality. Jews are also assimilated into society and have kept their traditions simultaneously.

756 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:33:01am

re: #752 SixDegrees

This is an increasingly popular lie being spread by supporters of nationalized health care. But attempting to conflate the amount of money spent on medical care with outcomes in this way is ludicrous. The total amount of health care dollars being used includes every tummy tuck, liposuction, botox injection, bood job, dick extension, tinted contact lens prescription, teeth whitening procedure, viagra prescription and a thousand other non-essential elective procedures and prescriptions. This is an attempt to portray medicine as a zero sum game in which the rich suck up all the resources and the poor get nothing, which in fact the amount spent on actual, essential health care is only a fraction of this total.

A nationalized system will do absolutely nothing to change this; those with the funds will still spend them on non-critical care like this. Unless Sebelius is trying to claim that procedures like these are somehow "essential" enough to be mandatory for everyone, she's drawing a completely false analogy.

Or, to put it more bluntly, she's full of shit up to her eyebrows.

Would it be out of line to call this "fearmongering"?

757 Gang of One  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:33:09am

Gotta go and be productive. Hope to see you all later.

758 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:33:47am

Obama once again used the Post Office vis a Vis Fed EX & UPS as an example of how the public sector has not driven out private enterprise.
This was at his stacked Town Hall yesterday.
How in the world can the smartest man in the world say this?
The post office bleeds red ink & has a monopoly on first class mail.
If the private sector could deliver first class there would be no need for the post office public option, so ok let's create an inefficient health insurance public option.
It will turn into a public jobs program & the people like the ones that work for the post office will decide if your care is approved.

759 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:34:16am

re: #739 Gang of One

Yes and no, Sabra. Jews have lived outside of Israel/Canaan/Judea for millenia, but they have not lost their identity -- specifically because they have kept the Jewish community/soul/spirit together, as you say. Is this not possible for First Americans outside of a reservation?

I would say because they have made the effort to remain with each other, but I don't think that's happened with the N.A.

760 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:34:57am

re: #744 albusteve

each tribe has to be judged separately...obviously the worst off are the tribes of the central plains that thrived on the buffalo...the federal policy toward them was extermination...the cultures of NM are completely different and it is much easier to preserve customs and languages

Corrct. Customs and languages can be preserved even IF you assimilate. Look at any ethnic/ religious group here in the states

761 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:36:22am

re: #756 Pianobuff

Would it be out of line to call this "fearmongering"?

It's beyond fearmongering. It's flat-out lying. Per capita spending has no relation to outcomes, and medicine is not the zero-sum game being portrayed in this senseless comparison anyway.

762 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:36:28am

re: #739 Gang of One

Yes and no, Sabra. Jews have lived outside of Israel/Canaan/Judea for millenia, but they have not lost their identity -- specifically because they have kept the Jewish community/soul/spirit together, as you say. Is this not possible for First Americans outside of a reservation?

I would also say that if you go off the rez, you're moving away from your people, that being the grandparents, the uncles and aunts, the family that maintain your culture. That goes far to rob them of their history and ability to pass it along.

763 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:37:55am

re: #745 VegasRick

Even Obama think's that Fed Ex is swell. Let them compete with UPS & others for First Class mail delivery.

764 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:38:30am

re: #760 sattv4u2

Corrct. Customs and languages can be preserved even IF you assimilate. Look at any ethnic/ religious group here in the states

yes, especially if the pride is handed down through the children, but they have to spend considerable time around the elders...mant tribal histories are not written but spoken...whatever it is one of those things that seems so have easy solutions but really the issues can be very complex...not all Indians think or believe the same way about things

765 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:38:36am

re: #728 SixDegrees


So, they're getting rid of the "public option" by...keeping it, and calling it something else.


No, the co-op is a public exchange so individuals can buy health insurance across state lines and have similar bargaining power as large companies. It will be a good thing for individuals and small businesses. I expect the right to fight against it tooth and nail.

766 zombie  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:40:13am

Looks like th Democrats have cracked, and the Health Care Bill is going to go down in flames:

White House appears ready to drop 'public option'

President Barack Obama's administration signaled on Sunday it is ready to abandon the idea of giving Americans the option of government-run health insurance as part of his ambitious health care proposal.

Facing mounting opposition to the overhaul, administration officials left open the chance for a compromise with Republicans that would include health insurance cooperatives. Such a concession is likely to enrage his liberal supporters but could deliver Obama a much-needed win on a top domestic priority opposed by GOP lawmakers.

Without the "public option," then the bill becomes basically semi-meaningless, a minor fix.

I see this as a victory for the Republicans. The Democrats will back down and instead offer up a bill that creates a handful of nonprofit insurance companies, which consumers can take or leave. But I suspect the nonprofits will not be able to stay afloat financially, and fairly soon will shut their doors.

767 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:40:16am

re: #762 American Sabra

I would also say that if you go off the rez, you're moving away from your people, that being the grandparents, the uncles and aunts, the family that maintain your culture. That goes far to rob them of their history and ability to pass it along.

please. My grandmother moved away from her "people, that being the grandparents, the uncles and aunts, the family " from Italy to Boston when she was 16. She kept her cultural heritage WHILE assimilating to her new home,, ALONE
Go to any large metropolis. There are still Italian sections (little Italies), German sections, Chinese cestions, etc ALL holding their cultural identity while at the same time keeping modern

768 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:40:19am

re: #710 jaunte
Good afternoon juante! Did you know that the U.S. Government has an incredible record when it comes to the treaties we've signed with the First Americans*
We have broken EVERY SINGLE TREATY WE'VE EVER SIGNED with a First American Tribe.
Indeed, we are - technically speaking only -still at war with the Seminole Nation, as they refused to surrender and sign a peace treaty, based upon what their related tribes advised them about white men signing pieces of paper and then ignorning what they signed.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]


*Note, I use the term First Americans because for a looong time the word "Indian" was considered racist or somesuch and some academic types led the charge to call them "Native Americans" but of course they weren't. They migrated here from Asia -making them perhaps the first immigrants, but their children were, by all accounts, the first people born in North America, hence the term "First Americans".

769 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:40:53am

re: #752 SixDegrees

You got it . If Sebelius is looking for a return on investment, she should look at public education. We spend more than any nation in the world & nobody claims the the educational outcomes are stellar.

770 kansas  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:41:00am

re: #765 Killgore Trout

No, the co-op is a public exchange so individuals can buy health insurance across state lines and have similar bargaining power as large companies. It will be a good thing for individuals and small businesses. I expect the right to fight against it tooth and nail.

Why would the right fight that? You could buy BCBS from Kansas, and maybe Geico would sell on the web. Combine that with some tort reform, and maybe some increased medicaid for folks and that might fly.

771 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:42:15am

re: #765 Killgore Trout

No, the co-op is a public exchange so individuals can buy health insurance across state lines and have similar bargaining power as large companies. It will be a good thing for individuals and small businesses. I expect the right to fight against it tooth and nail.

Is there any actual legislation drafted that defines what the co-op is?

772 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:42:29am

re: #765 Killgore Trout

No, the co-op is a public exchange so individuals can buy health insurance across state lines and have similar bargaining power as large companies. It will be a good thing for individuals and small businesses. I expect the right to fight against it tooth and nail.

Not according to the article:

As proposed by Conrad, the co-ops would receive federal startup money, but then would operate independently of the government. They would have to maintain the same financial reserves that private companies are required to keep to handle unexpectedly high claims.

It's got "subsidized by the Federal Government" stamped all over it. Why set up ANY "startups" at all if you're jettisoning the public option?

Same shit, different day.

773 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:44:16am

re: #767 sattv4u2

please. My grandmother moved away from her "people, that being the grandparents, the uncles and aunts, the family " from Italy to Boston when she was 16. She kept her cultural heritage WHILE assimilating to her new home,, ALONE
Go to any large metropolis. There are still Italian sections (little Italies), German sections, Chinese cestions, etc ALL holding their cultural identity while at the same time keeping modern

Yes, mine too, but these immigrants had people to take them in. My family who managed to escape from Europe in both WWI and WWII had cousins here. Where are the N.A. families outside the reservation? There are none and without those families they risk losing their heritage.

774 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:44:46am

re: #770 kansas

Why would the right fight that? You could buy BCBS from Kansas, and maybe Geico would sell on the web. Combine that with some tort reform, and maybe some increased medicaid for folks and that might fly.

Because they'll mindlessly oppose anything and everything Obama does. The 'death panel" thing never existed but they demanded end of life planing be removed from the bill anyways. It accomplished nothing except opposing healthcare reform, which is what this is really about.

775 zombie  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:45:31am

re: #765 Killgore Trout

No, the co-op is a public exchange so individuals can buy health insurance across state lines and have similar bargaining power as large companies. It will be a good thing for individuals and small businesses. I expect the right to fight against it tooth and nail.

No, in the article I linked to, the Republicans said they'll probably support the co-op option:

Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., said Obama's team is making a political calculation and embracing the co-op alternative as "a step away from the government takeover of the health care system" that the GOP has pummeled.

"I don't know if it will do everything people want, but we ought to look at it. I think it's a far cry from the original proposals," he said.

776 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:45:33am

re: #746 avanti

Like Blue Cross/Blue Shield. (non profit)

Avanti, some of the Blue Cross plans are a little misleading when they refer to themselves as non-profit. Some plans ., Like Illinois were forced to reorganize as Mutual companies.
They are technically owned by policy holders, but they earn lots of profit especially on their networks.

777 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:47:31am

re: #725 HAL2010
I think we are in Afghanistan for two reasons: the first is that almost immediatlely after we leave, the Taliban will resume control of the country, imposing yet again the harshest Sharia government in the world and the second is that the Taliban controlled country of Afghanistan will ONCE AGAIN be used by Al-Q to recruit, train, arm and plan attacks against the West, especially the United States.
Folks like to blast George W. Bush for a lot of things, many of which I agree with but he got one thing - and a VERY IMPORTANT thing right: if we can keep Al-Quaeda on the run, they will lack the resources and time in a safe place, to plot, plan and launch the attacks against us as they did on 9/11.

778 kansas  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:47:50am

re: #774 Killgore Trout

Because they'll mindlessly oppose anything and everything Obama does. The 'death panel" thing never existed but they demanded end of life planing be removed from the bill anyways. It accomplished nothing except opposing healthcare reform, which is what this is really about.

Well after watching Pelosi and Reid mindlessly oppose everything Bush did I suppose we couldn't expect any better now.

779 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:47:51am

Update: Bollywood star detained by US security causes Islamist seething...
Muslims stage protest against Salman Khan’s objectionable comment in Mumbai

Reacting to the detention of Shahrukh Khan at Newark International Airport in USA, Salman Khan on Saturday said: “Just because of few Muslims, billions of the community members face problems, which is not right,” after playing a celebrity football match in Mumbai on Saturday.

The reaction didn’t go down well with a section of community, as they reached Shahrukh’s house as to show solidarity with him and to express anger against Salman’s comment.

Protesters raised slogans against Salman and were planning a protest march from Shahrukh’s house to Salman’s house

780 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:48:23am

Words of wisdom from a northern neighbor:

George Jonas: Beware the eggheads, not the skinheads

If you live long enough, you see a lot, and after you've seen a lot, you learn to tell things that worry you from things that merely make you unhappy. While I'm unhappy about skinheads in Eastern Europe planning a march to commemorate the anniversary of Rudolf Hess's death, what worries me is eggheads on the eastern seaboard of America calling on Israel to segregate Jerusalem.

It's nuclear power-seeking Iran being run by Holocaust-denying Mahmoud Ahmajinedad that worries me, not skinheads. I also worry about former U.S. president Bill Clinton being photographed sitting stone-faced in a small chair next to North Korean Leader Kim Jong-il.

781 yochanan  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:48:29am

[Link: www.hulu.com...]

this is what SNL does now that it doesn't have the other kind of BUSH to make fun of.

782 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:48:39am

re: #775 zombie

No, in the article I linked to, the Republicans said they'll probably support the co-op option:

I don't know if the rapid and poorly informed Tea Party base will allow it. We'll see.

783 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:48:41am

re: #774 Killgore Trout

Because they'll mindlessly oppose anything and everything Obama does.


You really are a piece of work KT.

784 Lincolntf  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:48:45am

Hi all.
I'm looking forward to a nice afternoon of watching Tiger trying to snag a Major in his last chance for the year. Anyone else with "couch potato" in their near future should tune in.
(Oh, and if some guy I've never heard of named Y.E. Yang beats Tiger, I'll be not pleased.)

785 zombie  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:48:52am

re: #774 Killgore Trout

Because they'll mindlessly oppose anything and everything Obama does. The 'death panel" thing never existed but they demanded end of life planing be removed from the bill anyways. It accomplished nothing except opposing healthcare reform, which is what this is really about.

I think you're wrong on this. I think that the co-op option is MUCH much less noxious, and doesn't count as "socialized medicine," so there will be no real motivation to oppose it.

The Republicans want to be seen as helping to pass some kind of reform bill too - -they don't want to be perceived as obstructionists.

But the key is: Nonprofits rarely can compete with for-profit companies. The govt will fund the startup cash for the nonprofit insurance companies, but after that they'll be expected to be self-supporting. And within just a few years, I predict they'll mostly go belly-up.

786 Coracle  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:48:58am

re: #778 kansas

Well after watching Pelosi and Reid mindlessly oppose everything Bush did I suppose we couldn't expect any better now.

Old stupidity doesn't justify new.

787 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:49:10am

re: #766 zombie

Looks like th Democrats have cracked, and the Health Care Bill is going to go down in flames:

White House appears ready to drop 'public option'

Without the "public option," then the bill becomes basically semi-meaningless, a minor fix.

I see this as a victory for the Republicans. The Democrats will back down and instead offer up a bill that creates a handful of nonprofit insurance companies, which consumers can take or leave. But I suspect the nonprofits will not be able to stay afloat financially, and fairly soon will shut their doors.

I hope you are right. I've opposed government run health care/single payer for years. For me it has nothing to do with Obama. Any progressive president, including Hillary, would be pushing this. I'd still be against it, on principle.
The Democrats will take a small victory if any of the proposals open the door for a future "public option". I wouldn't put it past them to leave some stealth destruction in the bill.

788 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:49:11am

re: #773 American Sabra

Yes, mine too, but these immigrants had people to take them in. My family who managed to escape from Europe in both WWI and WWII had cousins here. Where are the N.A. families outside the reservation? There are none and without those families they risk losing their heritage.

The 1st ones didn't! At some point in time, the 1st NA had to venture off the reservation, just as the 1st Italian/ German/ Irish/ etc did

789 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:49:15am

re: #778 kansas

Well after watching Pelosi and Reid mindlessly oppose everything Bush did I suppose we couldn't expect any better now.

That's participating in democratic debate. Opposing Obama is pretty darn close treason and definitely a negative

790 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:50:02am

re: #782 Killgore Trout

I don't know if the rapid and poorly informed Tea Party base will allow it. We'll see.

they're FAST !?!?!?

791 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:50:06am

re: #779 Killgore Trout

Update: Bollywood star detained by US security causes Islamist seething...
Muslims stage protest against Salman Khan’s objectionable comment in Mumbai

He suggested most muslims are peaceful. Stone the heretic!

792 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:50:24am

re: #774 Killgore Trout

Because they'll mindlessly oppose anything and everything Obama does. The 'death panel" thing never existed but they demanded end of life planing be removed from the bill anyways. It accomplished nothing except opposing healthcare reform, which is what this is really about.


KT , will there be efficacy panels such as the State of Oregon has?
They do ration healthcare resources & some people simply lose.

793 J.S.  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:51:07am

re: #780 Desert Dog

I read that article by George Jonas. I'm in complete agreement with Jonas.

794 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:51:40am

re: #780 Desert Dog

Words of wisdom from a northern neighbor:

George Jonas: Beware the eggheads, not the skinheads

If you live long enough, you see a lot, and after you've seen a lot, you learn to tell things that worry you from things that merely make you unhappy. While I'm unhappy about skinheads in Eastern Europe planning a march to commemorate the anniversary of Rudolf Hess's death, what worries me is eggheads on the eastern seaboard of America calling on Israel to segregate Jerusalem.

It's nuclear power-seeking Iran being run by Holocaust-denying Mahmoud Ahmajinedad that worries me, not skinheads. I also worry about former U.S. president Bill Clinton being photographed sitting stone-faced in a small chair next to North Korean Leader Kim Jong-il.

I'd beware of both groups.

795 SteveC  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:52:25am

Ugh... got a bug. Dull headache, slight fever, frequent flyer miles on Toilet Airlines. :(

Hope the rest of you are doing well.

796 J.S.  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:53:00am

re: #794 SixDegrees

did you read the article?

797 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:53:05am

re: #782 Killgore Trout

I don't know if the rapid and poorly informed Tea Party base will allow it. We'll see.

BEWARE THE TEA PARTIERS!

798 yochanan  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:53:22am

i want a woomba i wonder if they could have made one for males? and what about gay males?
[Link: www.hulu.com...]

his is what SNL does now that it doesn't have the other kind of BUSH to make fun of.

799 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:53:25am

re: #785 zombie

I think you're wrong on this. I think that the co-op option is MUCH much less noxious, and doesn't count as "socialized medicine," so there will be no real motivation to oppose it.

The Republicans want to be seen as helping to pass some kind of reform bill too - -they don't want to be perceived as obstructionists.

But the key is: Nonprofits rarely can compete with for-profit companies. The govt will fund the startup cash for the nonprofit insurance companies, but after that they'll be expected to be self-supporting. And within just a few years, I predict they'll mostly go belly-up.

Or, a sudden necessity to continue and even expand government funding will be concocted.

800 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:53:49am

re: #782 Killgore Trout

I don't know if the rapid and poorly informed Tea Party base will allow it. We'll see.

Last I looked D's have a supermajority. Did I miss something?

801 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:54:16am

re: #766 zombie

Looks like th Democrats have cracked, and the Health Care Bill is going to go down in flames:

White House appears ready to drop 'public option'

Remember this quote, repeated several times by Obama:
“I won’t sign a bill that adds to the national debt or the deficit.”

Maybe Obama is wising up to the fact that this is impossible? Or Obama is wising up to the fact that voters are wising up to the fact.

802 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:54:19am

re: #800 Pianobuff

Last I looked D's have a supermajority. Did I miss something?

Yeah, look over there.

803 kansas  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:54:24am

re: #786 Coracle

Old stupidity doesn't justify new.

Apparently Pelosi is not signed on to that paradigm, what with suddenly being opposed to vociferous protests.

804 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:54:30am

Killgore:

City police plan for neo-Nazi meeting

Greensboro police are preparing for the possibility that a meeting of the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement could be held in the city later this month.

The NSM, a group which describes itself as “defending the rights of white people everywhere,” is planning its Southeast/Mid-Atlantic Regional meeting on Aug. 29, according to the group’s Web site.

However, an exact location for the meeting has not been announced. Greensboro police are acting on intelligence that the event could occur her

e.

805 jaunte  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:54:40am

Some interesting factoids about Blue Cross - Blue shield:

The Blue Cross Blue Shield Association (BCBSA) is a federation of 39 United States health insurance companies. Combined, they directly or indirectly sell some form of insurance to over 100 million Americans.

Many plans are administered by not-for-profit organizations, while others are for-profit companies. (Though all Blue Cross Blue Shield plans must pay Federal income tax under the Tax Reform Act of 1986, some plans are still considered not-for-profit at the state level.) The 14-state WellPoint is the largest Blue Cross Blue Shield member, and is a publicly traded company. Other multi-state organizations include CareFirst in the Mid-Atlantic and The Regence Group in the Pacific Northwest. The largest non-investor owned member is Health Care Service Corporation (HCSC), which operates four Blue Cross and Blue Shield Plans in the Midwest and Southwest.

In the past Blue Cross Blue Shield has been successfully sued and fined for denying due medical treatments to their customers and underpaying doctors.[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

806 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:54:42am

re: #797 VegasRick

BEWARE THE TEA PARTIERS!

RON PAUL!

807 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:54:44am

oops

808 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:54:53am

re: #775 zombie
Good afternoon zombie! Hey c'mon that's not fair - confusing him with facts like that!

809 kansas  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:54:59am

re: #800 Pianobuff

Last I looked D's have a supermajority. Did I miss something?

Yeah, Rush Limbaugh./

810 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:55:03am

re: #800 Pianobuff

Last I looked D's have a supermajority. Did I miss something?



They are ascaired to use it. Da teapartiers are gunna git em!

811 yochanan  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:55:14am

re: #794 SixDegrees

the islamists are committing mass murder on a global scale the skins are mostly just hemoridal tissue on the worlds ass holes.

812 zombie  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:56:05am

re: #799 SixDegrees

Or, a sudden necessity to continue and even expand government funding will be concocted.

Possibly. But then the same argument will start up again. We will have simply delayed the showdown.

813 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:56:08am

re: #805 jaunte

Some interesting factoids about Blue Cross - Blue shield:

And our President was unaware of this.

814 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:56:13am

re: #782 Killgore Trout

I don't know if the rapid and poorly informed Tea Party base will allow it. We'll see.

That is funny since many of the blocks to actual reform usually come from the left. Your painting the right with broad strokes get old sometimes, Killgore. We are not evil, stupid or incapable of action when action is necessary. There have been reforms in the past and if Obamacare goes down in flames, perhaps we can do some actual reforms. The idea that the system is flawed, therefore, we have to replace it with something even worse sounds pretty stupid to me. Perhaps you could post endless link about that?

815 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:56:21am

re: #788 sattv4u2

The 1st ones didn't! At some point in time, the 1st NA had to venture off the reservation, just as the 1st Italian/ German/ Irish/ etc did

The first? How far back is that? The Mayflower?

Those people came en masse together. The immigrants at the turn of this century, many of them, came together, too. Others came alone but had somewhere, some people to join. It's not the same for our indigenous people. If you can't see that, I don't know how else to explain it. I'm not a First American even tho I seem to be playing one on LGF.

816 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:56:32am

re: #796 J.S.

did you read the article?

Yes. The claim that skinheads are nothing to worry about, and the implication throughout that wariness is some kind of zero-sum game in which distrust of one group must somehow imply trust of another, is a faulty argument. I'm perfectly capable of condemning both groups, and both richly deserve condemnation.

817 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:56:33am

re: #545 taxfreekiller


It is clear to me that lots of bad off line e-mails go about regarding post herein.

I've had the same email address (as well as newer ones) for 24 years. In 1998 when Hillary popularized the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy meme, millions of people went online to figure out what it was. I had been on the Atlantic Monthly's P&R board and this little politics bboard both since 1995.

OMG, you should have seen the hatemail I got and the lengths people would go to disrupt my offline life.

I can only sympathize. (empathize?)

818 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:56:35am

re: #806 sattv4u2

RON PAUL!

Granny is a nazi!

819 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:57:03am

re: #810 VegasRick


They are ascaired to use it. Da teapartiers are gunna git em!

cue Deliverance soundtrack...

820 kansas  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:57:23am

re: #801 FrogMarch

Maybe Obama is wising up to the fact that this is impossible? Or Obama is wising up to the fact that voters are wising up to the fact.

Maybe Obama is wising up to the fact that voters are wising up to Obama. Off topic, is anyone here getting one of those Michelle Obama dolls from the Danbury Mint?

821 Coracle  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:57:43am

re: #803 kansas

Apparently Pelosi is not signed on to that paradigm, what with suddenly being opposed to vociferous protests.

Anyone who justifies their objectionable actions by pointing and saying "well did it first!" should get out of the schoolyard playground. Be an adult, even if - especially if - your opponent is not.

822 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:57:54am

re: #782 Killgore Trout

I don't know if the rapid and poorly informed Tea Party base will allow it. We'll see.

And...then what? The Dems own the Federal government. Trying to blame anything on the GOP at the moment is a complete non-starter.

823 rightymouse  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:58:07am

My husband went to a celebration yesterday for a German couple who just became American citizens. At the swearing-in ceremony the Judge had them read this:

I do not choose to be a common man
It is my right to be uncommon...
If I can. I seek opportunity... Not security.

I do not wish to be a kept citizen,
Humbled and dulled by having the state to dream and build, to
Fail and succeed.

I refuse to barter incentive for a dole.
I prefer the challenges of life to the
Guaranteed existence; the thrill of
Fulfillment to the stale calm of utopia.

I will not trade freedom for beneficence
Nor my dignity for a hand out. I will
Never cower before any master nor bend
to any threat.

It is my heritage to stand erect,
proud, and unafraid; to think and act for
myself; enjoy the benefits of my
creations; and to face the world boldly
and say, "This I have done with my own hand,
I am a man. I am an American.

Dean Alfange

824 yochanan  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:58:09am

would a ZOOMBA take photo's of the worlds moonbats and dingbats on full auto?

825 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:58:24am

re: #629 sattv4u2

ummm,, I had a big bowl of chocolate fudge brownie chunk ice cream that I left out for about 20 minutes before devouring. Some of it was melted down, but ALL of it was YUMMY

Does that count?

Hey, Sat. Sure, I'll take that. Any news of chocolatey goodness is fine news.

826 Macker  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:58:26am

re: #822 SixDegrees

And...then what? The Dems own the Federal government. Trying to blame anything on the GOP at the moment is a complete non-starter.

Not to the Demo☭rats.

827 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:58:28am

re: #816 SixDegrees

Yes. The claim that skinheads are nothing to worry about, and the implication throughout that wariness is some kind of zero-sum game in which distrust of one group must somehow imply trust of another, is a faulty argument. I'm perfectly capable of condemning both groups, and both richly deserve condemnation.

I think skinheads are something to be concerned about, but the point of this article is they are a blip on the radar screen compared to the actual monsters of this world. But, you are right, they are all bad.

828 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:58:41am

re: #580 American Sabra

The link no worky :(

It's a conspiracy! It completely worked an hour ago. :-)

[Link: tinyurl.com...]

829 zombie  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:58:55am

re: #805 jaunte

Some interesting factoids about Blue Cross - Blue shield:

Interesting!

So, basically, the new proposal will simply be creating an extra nonprofit insurance company to compete with Blue Shield!

I've already got the perfect name for it:

Red Shield.

830 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:59:16am

re: #811 yochanan

the islamists are committing mass murder on a global scale the skins are mostly just hemoridal tissue on the worlds ass holes.

No reason at all to be unconcerned about what the skinheads are doing.

831 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:59:29am

re: #819 Desert Dog

cue Deliverance soundtrack...


Squeal lak a pig!

832 HAL2010  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:59:30am

re: #777 realwest

I think we are in Afghanistan for two reasons: the first is that almost immediately after we leave, the Taliban will resume control of the country, imposing yet again the harshest Sharia government in the world and the second is that the Taliban controlled country of Afghanistan will ONCE AGAIN be used by Al-Q to recruit, train, arm and plan attacks against the West, especially the United States.
Folks like to blast George W. Bush for a lot of things, many of which I agree with but he got one thing - and a VERY IMPORTANT thing right: if we can keep Al-Qaeda on the run, they will lack the resources and time in a safe place, to plot, plan and launch the attacks against us as they did on 9/11.

The government of Afghanistan already have strict Sharia laws, see e.g. the so called "rape law".
I should point out that very few member of Al-Qaeda are from Afghanistan. Bin Laden is Saudi, Zawahiri Egyptian. In the 1980's there was an "Arab" legion fighting the Soviets, they were not part of the same movement as what eventually became the Taliban. 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Saudi.
As for planning and recruiting, I agree that the major risk if we leave would be the potential safe haven for Al-Qaeda. However, at present Al-Qaeda do not present a threat in Afghanistan, but rather Pakistan, a country with nukes.
Although the idea of nation building is an amicable endeavour I would question the possibility in the case of Afghanistan, unless we are prepared to commit a large number of troops over several decades. This would not only strangle our ability to react to other situations around the globe, but also bogs us down in a country that has very little strategic interest. Pakistan is more interesting, as is probably Iraq (i.e. ensuring stability).

80 % of Al-Qaeda's top brass died in the bombings in 2001.

Again I ask:
Have we not accomplished the operational goals we set for Afghanistan in 2001?

833 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:59:30am

re: #829 zombie

Interesting!

So, basically, the new proposal will simply be creating an extra nonprofit insurance company to compete with Blue Shield!

I've already got the perfect name for it:

Red Shield.

Sounds like a condom.

834 zombie  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:59:35am

re: #808 realwest

Good afternoon zombie! Hey c'mon that's not fair - confusing him with facts like that!

Afternoon? I just got out of bed! Still morning here.

835 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 9:59:42am

re: #800 Pianobuff

Last I looked D's have a supermajority. Did I miss something?

Yup, it'll pass without Republican support as long as the Blue Dogs go along.

836 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:00:20am

re: #812 zombie

Possibly. But then the same argument will start up again. We will have simply delayed the showdown.

As I've said a couple times upthread now, we have to be wary of winning the battles but losing the war.

This "new" option looks like the same old public option, with a heavy coat of lipstick applied.

837 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:00:26am

re: #823 rightymouse

My husband went to a celebration yesterday for a German couple who just became American citizens. At the swearing-in ceremony the Judge had them read this:

I do not choose to be a common man
It is my right to be uncommon...
If I can. I seek opportunity... Not security.

I do not wish to be a kept citizen,
Humbled and dulled by having the state to dream and build, to
Fail and succeed.

I refuse to barter incentive for a dole.
I prefer the challenges of life to the
Guaranteed existence; the thrill of
Fulfillment to the stale calm of utopia.

I will not trade freedom for beneficence
Nor my dignity for a hand out. I will
Never cower before any master nor bend
to any threat.

It is my heritage to stand erect,
proud, and unafraid; to think and act for
myself; enjoy the benefits of my
creations; and to face the world boldly
and say, "This I have done with my own hand,
I am a man. I am an American.

Dean Alfange

Sneak that into the Teleprompter. About halfway through, just imagine the confoosed looks.

838 SteveC  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:00:27am
Greensboro police are preparing for the possibility that a meeting of the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement could be held in the city later this month.

The NSM, a group which describes itself as “defending the rights of white people everywhere,” is planning its Southeast/Mid-Atlantic Regional meeting on Aug. 29, according to the group’s Web site.

However, an exact location for the meeting has not been announced. Greensboro police are acting on intelligence that the event could occur her

What's the deal with Greensboro?

88 seconds in Greensboro

839 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:00:42am

re: #829 zombie

Interesting!

So, basically, the new proposal will simply be creating an extra nonprofit insurance company to compete with Blue Shield!

I've already got the perfect name for it:

Red Shield.

Better yet, to assuage the anti-religious faction on the left, we'll call it

UN-CROSS/ RED SHEILD

840 Ojoe  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:01:20am

re: #835 Killgore Trout

They have a supermajority, but also they face the elections of 2010 and 2012,
with the voters in a pissy mood.

841 kansas  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:01:42am

re: #821 Coracle

Anyone who justifies their objectionable actions by pointing and saying "well did it first!" should get out of the schoolyard playground. Be an adult, even if - especially if - your opponent is not.

Not so much that they did it first, but that they did it first and continue to do it and it works. But hey, I want to play by the rules and lose. No thanks.

842 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:01:46am

re: #798 yochanan

i want a woomba i wonder if they could have made one for males? and what about gay males?
[Link: www.hulu.com...]

his is what SNL does now that it doesn't have the other kind of BUSH to make fun of.

When men don't feel fresh, they reach for the Right Guard. I don't think you'd want a woomba, unless there's something about yourself that you wish to share?

And might I add that that SNL skit was hysterical. I really am quite offended when TV ads tell me how to take care of my hoohoo, like women are clueless about this.

843 Racer X  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:02:17am

re: #800 Pianobuff

Last I looked D's have a supermajority. Did I miss something?

Wait - you mean Obama and Pelosi and Reid could pass any bill they wanted - all they need to do is get every Democrat to vote for it?

844 horse  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:02:46am

re: #839 sattv4u2

Better yet, to assuage the anti-religious faction on the left, we'll call it

UN-CROSS/ RED SHEILD

or Generic Symbolism/ Red Shield

845 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:02:49am

re: #835 Killgore Trout

Yup, it'll pass without Republican support as long as the Blue Dogs go along sell their souls and give up all hope for reelection.


FTFY.

846 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:02:53am

re: #843 Racer X

Wait - you mean Obama and Pelosi and Reid could pass any bill they wanted - all they need to do is get every Democrat to vote for it?

Easier said than done.

847 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:02:54am

re: #833 Pianobuff

Sounds like a condom.

A government condom ?

Population explosion.

848 brookly red  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:02:54am

re: #840 Ojoe

They have a supermajority, but also they face the elections of 2010 and 2012,
with the voters in a pissy mood.

very pissy.

849 Ojoe  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:03:07am

re: #843 Racer X

Pelosi reminds me of a shrunken head

850 Macker  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:03:36am

re: #829 zombie

Interesting!

So, basically, the new proposal will simply be creating an extra nonprofit insurance company to compete with Blue Shield!

I've already got the perfect name for it:

Red Shield.

1,000,000 updings!

851 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:04:10am

re: #583 HAL2010

No, you shoot the bastard. Frankly, men who attack you with a banana are clearly fruity.

Observe

Laughing...I thought it was going to be a Bruno link.

852 Racer X  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:04:16am

re: #846 Sharmuta

Easier said than done.

So wait, I'm confused. You mean it is not those damn Republicans that are preventing the health care bill from being made into law?

853 Lincolntf  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:04:38am

re: #838 SteveC

Greensboro isn 't too far from where I live. They just had a local "Latin King Leader" running for the City Council, and doing pretty well. Until he got arrested for interrupting the arrest of some gang-bangers.
I've only ever been to the airport myself, but the City is definitely "off".

854 realwest  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:04:44am

Uh, y'all we just started getting thunder and lightning so I'm outta here!
Hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!

855 yochanan  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:04:44am

re: #830 SixDegrees

i have a long list of different kinds of anti semites just right now the islamists kind is on the top of the list in the number and kind of mass murder they are commiting.

and left wing anti semites like N.K. being allies with the islamist and baathist kind of anti semite is were the next attempt at genocide of jews will come from not some doc martin wearing ska listening ass hole.

of course on the local level all of them are creeps. but iran with a N.K. nuke and N.K. missles to deliver said nuke could commit genocide.

856 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:04:46am

re: #849 Ojoe

Pelosi reminds me of a shrunken head

I'd do her. (what is the name for that kind of sex again?)

857 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:05:16am

re: #850 Macker

1,000,000 updings!

Red Shield/Red Star

858 Ojoe  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:05:28am

re: #856 VegasRick

EWWW

BB much later ...

859 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:05:44am

re: #856 VegasRick

I'd do her. (what is the name for that kind of sex again?)

Getoverhere.

SMACK.

Wake up man, friends don't let friends do that shit.

860 jaunte  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:05:48am

More factoids:

BCBS Companies

Collectively, the Blue Cross and Blue Shield System provides healthcare coverage for more than 100 million people or one-in-three Americans.

* 39 Blue Cross and Blue Shield companies
* Among the 20 largest employers in the U.S.
* Healthcare coverage available in all 50 states, the District of Columbia and in Puerto Rico
* Nationwide, more than 90 percent of hospitals and 80 percent of physicians contract with BCBS companies – more than any other insurer

Maybe the answer is simply to expand BCBS.

861 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:05:50am

re: #766 zombie

Looks like th Democrats have cracked, and the Health Care Bill is going to go down in flames:


White House appears ready to drop 'public option'


snip...


"I think there will be a competitor to private insurers," Sebelius said. "That's really the essential part, is you don't turn over the whole new marketplace to private insurance companies and trust them to do the right thing."

Obama's top spokesman refused to say a public option was a make-or-break choice for the administration.

"What I am saying is the bottom line for this for the president is, what we have to have is choice and competition in the insurance market," White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said.

It seems to me they just want an opportunity to re-phrase. The administration and the democrats consider the government proper "competition". Will they really let that go?

862 Racer X  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:06:09am

re: #856 VegasRick

I'd do her. (what is the name for that kind of sex again?)

Thats just wrong - no matter what the name is.

(necrophilia?)

863 SteveC  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:06:13am

re: #852 Racer X

So wait, I'm confused. You mean it is not those damn Republicans that are preventing the health care bill from being made into law?

"No, Robin, this is not the work of the Joker, but rather of the other Maniac of Mayhem... The Riddler!"

864 shortshrift  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:06:15am

re: #785 zombie

I happened upon this at the website Race 4 2012:

Healthcare at $130 a person

I was reading the New York Times today and I came across an interesting Op-Ed. Liberal columnist Bob Herbert wrote about Community Health Centers.

Even though he liberally quoted from Socialist Senator (really) Bernie Sanders in the article I think Community Health Centers are an idea worth exploring.

Basically Community Health Centers receive some funding through the government but they charge for services on a sliding scale based on income. These centers are headed up by boards that must include patients.

In 2001 Community Health Centers served about 10 million people at a cost of 1.16 billion dollars.

Bush supported Community Health Centers and began a push to expand them soon after taking office.

By 2006 these centers served 15 million people at a cost of only 1.99 billion.

Today these centers serve 20 million people. 40% of them are uninsured, 90% earn less than twice the poverty level, and 70% are minorities.

Thank you President Bush for providing health care to millions of the uninsured at little cost to the rest of us.

That’s staggeringly cheap for the government. What’s amazing is that these centers tend to provide decent quality without undermining private business.

Because they charge on a sliding income scale these centers largely (90%) appeal to patients who can’t afford doctors. Few people earning above twice the poverty level use these facilities because they’re charged the full price for treatment.

These centers efficiently do much of what Democrats say their insurance reforms will do.

These Centers get patients regular doctor’s visits and head off future problems. They reduce the cost of healthcare while leaving incentives for patients not to abuse them (sliding fee scale). These Centers offer quality care to the uninsured.

Perhaps instead of risky and expensive insurance reform schemes we ought to look into expanding Community Health Centers (even quadrupling them would be a pittance although they would then reach 70% of the uninsured with affordable healthcare).

Then we could focus on the catastrophic side where many people are overwhelmed by expensive medical conditions or serious accidents.
by Doug Forrester @ 10:07 am. Filed under Issues

865 jaunte  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:06:16am

re: #860 jaunte

Forgot link: [Link: www.bcbs.com...]

866 rightymouse  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:06:18am

re: #837 SasquatchOnSteroids

Sneak that into the Teleprompter. About halfway through, just imagine the confoosed looks.

We forget what it means to be Americans at times. I don't see people here flocking to other countries that have socialized policies.

867 brookly red  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:06:21am

re: #856 VegasRick

I'd do her. (what is the name for that kind of sex again?)

payback

868 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:06:29am

re: #852 Racer X

So wait, I'm confused. You mean it is not those damn Republicans that are preventing the health care bill from being made into law?

I though it was pretty clear it was the Blue Dogs.

869 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:06:45am

re: #857 Ward Cleaver

Red Shield/Red Star

Red Star/Red Shield

Even better.

870 SteveC  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:07:14am

re: #856 VegasRick

I'd do her. (what is the name for that kind of sex again?)

Desperate

871 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:07:16am

re: #859 SasquatchOnSteroids

Getoverhere.

SMACK.

Wake up man, friends don't let friends do that shit.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLLO!!!

872 Macker  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:07:55am

re: #864 shortshrift

But you see, that was done by George W. Bush, and for that reason alone, it is EVIL.

/

873 Racer X  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:08:37am

re: #868 Sharmuta

I though it was pretty clear it was the Blue Dogs.

Everything I see in the news is presented as "Republican opposition".

874 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:08:48am

re: #828 gregb

It's a conspiracy! It completely worked an hour ago. :-)

[Link: tinyurl.com...]

Ah! A little bedtime reading? Thanks for the link. I'll take a peek.

875 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:08:51am

re: #871 VegasRick

LOLOLOLOLOLOLLO!!!

Besides, she wouldn't respect you in the morning.

BLECH.

876 Shug  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:08:52am

Payback is a bitch

Rahm gets demoted by Hillary

16 years later, he tells Hillary she can't have Blumental on her staff

bet she ain't happy

877 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:09:32am

Drudge is getting in on the action now. Graphic of a big white flag with the caption in bold, large, red lettering:

RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION'

878 SteveC  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:09:53am

re: #872 Macker

But you see, that was done by George W. Bush, and for that reason alone, it is EVIL.

/

Bush Lied! Granny went to the Community Heath Center!

879 Shug  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:10:07am

re: #877 Pianobuff

Drudge is getting in on the action now. Graphic of a big white flag with the caption in bold, large, red lettering:

RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION'

Mob rule!

heh

880 horse  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:10:21am

re: #779 Killgore Trout

Update: Bollywood star detained by US security causes Islamist seething...
Muslims stage protest against Salman Khan’s objectionable comment in Mumbai

That poor guy, he's on a short run of poor luck trapped between three worlds. Hopefully he doesn't get pinched.

881 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:10:31am

re: #840 Ojoe

They have a supermajority, but also they face the elections of 2010 and 2012,
with the voters in a pissy mood.

The key now is for the democrats to get as much of what they want without us pesky voters really understanding what is going on. I call it - frosting the sh*t-cake.

I do think if the house bill were to pass as-is the democrats would be out big time in 2010. Obama could be looking more like Jimmy Carter in 2012.

882 Lincolntf  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:10:46am

re: #877 Pianobuff

Score one for the good guys?
Do we dare celebrate or will that jinx it?

883 brookly red  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:10:57am

re: #876 Shug

Payback is a bitch

Rahm gets demoted by Hillary

16 years later, he tells Hillary she can't have Blumental on her staff

bet she ain't happy

I can't decide which one is dis-like more...

884 J.D.  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:11:07am

re: #877 Pianobuff

Drudge is getting in on the action now. Graphic of a big white flag with the caption in bold, large, red lettering:

RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION'

That sounds fishy... ... must report... ...

885 J.S.  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:11:22am

re: #816 SixDegrees

You're distorting what Jonas wrote. He never claimed that skinheads are "nothing to worry about." He isn't happy about skinheads reappearance in Europe. However, in an attempt to organize his worries/fears, he's saying that a nuclear armed Iran is much, much worse. (ditto for Obama's views regarding Israel),. And skinheads prancing about Budapest (or not) can't match the threat level of a nuclear armed Iran or a "round head" in the Oval office. It's about "priorities" -- and, I'm quite confident that anyone can make the claim "I am concerned about both groups" -- yeah, wow, so what? In the real world it's all about priorities.

886 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:11:29am

re: #835 Killgore Trout

Yup, it'll pass without Republican support as long as the Blue Dogs go along.

Difficult to reconcile with your #782

887 kansas  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:11:31am

re: #877 Pianobuff

Drudge is getting in on the action now. Graphic of a big white flag with the caption in bold, large, red lettering:

RETREAT: TEAM OBAMA DROPS 'PUBLIC OPTION'

You know they're gonna either change the name of it or cram it into some other bill in the middle of the night.

888 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:11:41am

re: #880 horse

That poor guy, he's on a short run of poor luck trapped between three worlds. Hopefully he doesn't get pinched.

I do feel for him but he's crazy rich. He'll be just fine (unless the Islamists kill him)

889 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:11:45am

re: #873 Racer X

Everything I see in the news is presented as "Republican opposition".

Quite a few here at LGF have pointed out it's the Blue Dogs the dems need to win over to their side.

890 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:11:48am

re: #865 jaunte

Forgot link: [Link: www.bcbs.com...]

BCBS started out as a health plan run by Baylor Hospital here in Dallas, set up by Justin F. Kimball, a former DISD superintendent, who has a high school named after him here in Dallas. I have a little book titled, "Our City Dallas", a history of the city, that he authored back in 1952.

891 horse  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:12:05am

re: #856 VegasRick

I'd do her. (what is the name for that kind of sex again?)

gross sex

892 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:12:10am

re: #882 Lincolntf

Score one for the good guys?
Do we dare celebrate or will that jinx it?

I'm staying calm on this. Too many laps left in this race and we don't know the details of this co-op stuff yet, which seems like it may be what ends up in the bill.

893 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:12:18am
894 Shug  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:12:38am

re: #883 brookly red

I can't decide which one is dis-like more...

both are at zero degrees Kelvin on my dislike scale

895 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:12:46am

re: #856 VegasRick

I'd do her. (what is the name for that kind of sex again?)

Necrophilia.

896 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:13:03am

re: #883 brookly red

I can't decide which one is dis-like more...

I'm an equal opportunity disliker on those 2.
Cagematch.
59.95.
I'd pay to watch it.

897 brookly red  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:13:05am

re: #882 Lincolntf

Score one for the good guys?
Do we dare celebrate or will that jinx it?

it's only wounded, it's not dead.

898 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:13:13am

re: #886 SixDegrees

Difficult to reconcile with your #782


No, it's not. Work on those reading comprehension skills.

899 kansas  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:13:16am

Maybe Obama should get the Sham Wow guy to sell his program. I guess Billy Mays is out of the question now.

900 horse  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:14:03am

re: #888 Killgore Trout

I do feel for him but he's crazy rich. He'll be just fine (unless the Islamists kill him)

That's the rub. Hopefully its not one of his own security who's a mole. But hey, he can always come live here to be safe and spend his money (and if we treat him right) :)

901 VegasRick  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:14:05am

BBL

902 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:14:07am
903 Shug  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:14:10am

re: #899 kansas

Maybe Obama should get the Sham Wow guy to sell his program. I guess Billy Mays is out of the question now.


Headline:

Sham Wow guy meets Scam Wow guy

904 Racer X  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:14:41am

Now I'm kinda pissed off.

Democrats control the White House and Congress. Yet when they can't get a bill passed they blame Republicans. Reality is Republicans are now IRRELEVANT! Why is it still their fault?

905 kansas  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:15:45am

re: #902 Killgore Trout

Healthcare lol

I prefer the professionally made posters paid for with stimulus money. [Link: healthcareforamericanow.org...]

906 SteveC  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:15:46am

re: #897 brookly red

it's only wounded, it's not dead.

"We put a stake through her heart and then cut her head off and finally she was at peace." -- Van Helsing, Dracula

907 Lincolntf  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:16:00am

re: #904 Racer X

It's an extension of Obama's Infallibility Doctrine. Everything is always someone else's fault.

908 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:16:03am

re: #904 Racer X

Now I'm kinda pissed off.

Democrats control the White House and Congress. Yet when they can't get a bill passed they blame Republicans. Reality is Republicans are now IRRELEVANT! Why is it still their fault?

Why? That's politics.

909 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:16:15am

re: #904 Racer X

Now I'm kinda pissed off.

Democrats control the White House and Congress. Yet when they can't get a bill passed they blame Republicans. Reality is Republicans are now IRRELEVANT! Why is it still their fault?

A re-training officer will arrive at your residence shortly to start corrective procedures. Please pack some extra socks.

910 jaunte  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:16:38am

re: #904 Racer X

It's useful to have someone to blame, whether it's true or not.

911 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:16:46am

re: #905 kansas

I prefer the professionally made posters paid for with stimulus money. [Link: healthcareforamericanow.org...]

heh...touche

912 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:16:59am

re: #910 jaunte

It's useful to have someone to blame, whether it's true or not.

I blame Bush.

913 kansas  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:17:07am

re: #904 Racer X

Now I'm kinda pissed off.

Democrats control the White House and Congress. Yet when they can't get a bill passed they blame Republicans. Reality is Republicans are now IRRELEVANT! Why is it still their fault?

Because blaming them still works.

914 jaunte  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:17:22am

re: #912 Sharmuta

I blame Columbus!

915 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:17:49am

re: #904 Racer X

Now I'm kinda pissed off.

Democrats control the White House and Congress. Yet when they can't get a bill passed they blame Republicans. Reality is Republicans are now IRRELEVANT! Why is it still their fault?

Because. I Won. Shaddup.

~Sunshine

916 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:18:04am

re: #914 jaunte

I blame Columbus!

I blame Darwin.

917 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:18:05am

re: #898 Killgore Trout

No, it's not. Work on those reading comprehension skills.

Feel free to explain how

I don't know if the rapid and poorly informed Tea Party base will allow it. We'll see.

offered in response to "No, in the article I linked to, the Republicans said they'll probably support the co-op option"

is consistent with

Yup, it'll pass without Republican support as long as the Blue Dogs go along.

In the first, the Republicans have to allow something; in the second, there's nothing they can do about it.

Sounds like it's more a matter of writing skills - or perhaps simply a desire to froth for the sake of frothing - than of comprehension.

918 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:18:13am

I think that I now no why BHO will not release his transripts. After listening to him the last couple of weeks, I doubt that he took any economics.

919 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:18:20am

re: #914 jaunte

I blame Columbus!

I blame those snoopy kids. If they hadn't gone sneaking around that amusement park with that talking dog, none of this would have happened.

920 Macker  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:18:45am

re: #904 Racer X

Now I'm kinda pissed off.

Democrats control the White House and Congress. Yet when they can't get a bill passed they blame Republicans. Reality is Republicans are now IRRELEVANT! Why is it still their fault?

George W. Bush will ALWAYS be the Demo☭rats boogeyman.

921 J.D.  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:19:14am

re: #918 opnion

I think that I now no why BHO will not release his transripts. After listening to him the last couple of weeks, I doubt that he took any economics.

If he did, he must have failed miserably.

922 brookly red  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:19:29am

re: #904 Racer X

Now I'm kinda pissed off.

Democrats control the White House and Congress. Yet when they can't get a bill passed they blame Republicans. Reality is Republicans are now IRRELEVANT! Why is it still their fault?

fault? whoever is responsible is a freakin hero.

923 Racer X  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:19:32am

re: #908 Sharmuta

Why? That's politics.

Man, If I was Michael Steele I would be putting out a press release every day saying "If you really want this health care bill, then pass it. You do not need one Republican on-board. Why is it still being debated?"

924 SteveC  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:19:32am

re: #910 jaunte

It's useful to have someone to blame, whether it's true or not.

I blame SecState Bill Clinton. (Just to see Hillary go nuts!)

925 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:19:34am
926 Shug  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:19:41am

re: #918 opnion

I think that I now no why BHO will not release his transripts. After listening to him the last couple of weeks, I doubt that he took any economics.

He took enough econ to know how to get stuff for nothing

927 horse  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:19:44am

re: #902 Killgore Trout

Picking on a little girl in that picture :( and she had the best sign by far.

But he did have an innovative idea with his sign.

928 J.D.  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:20:20am

re: #922 brookly red

fault? whoever is responsible is a freakin hero.

A gazillion updings!

929 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:20:40am

re: #923 Racer X

Man, If I was Michael Steele I would be putting out a press release every day saying "If you really want this health care bill, then pass it. You do not need one Republican on-board. Why is it still being debated?"

two words...
mobs

930 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:20:42am

re: #917 SixDegrees

Republican votes aren't needed to pass the bill. Republicans who might vote for the bill anyways will most likely face the fury of the Tea Party crowd. We'll see if any Republicans vote for it and what reaction comes from the base. It's a very simple statement.

931 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:21:07am

re: #920 Macker

George W. Bush will ALWAYS be the Demo☭rats boogeyman.

I always liked that how at the same time he (Bush) could be an evil genius who stole two elections AND be a stupid puppet controlled by Cheney/ Rove/ Haliburton!

932 Shug  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:21:11am

re: #927 horse

Picking on a little girl in that picture :( and she had the best sign by far.

But he did have an innovative idea with his sign.

I'd like to stand behind him with a sign that says

STILL LIVES AT HOME WITH HIS PARENTS

933 jaunte  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:21:46am

re: #927 horse

Picking on a little girl in that picture :( and she had the best sign by far.

But he did have an innovative idea with his sign.

(Hasn't read the other signs, but knows they're wrong in advance)

934 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:21:47am

re: #921 J.D.

If he did, he must have failed miserably.

Oh no, I doubt that, he has gotten a life time leg up.

935 Lincolntf  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:22:14am

re: #923 Racer X

I hear ya, but I wouldn't want that. The most important thing is stopping the debacle before it starts, not making the Dems look foolish/divided. That'll come anyway. Let's not bait them overmuch.

936 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:22:32am
937 SasquatchOnSteroids  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:22:45am

I blame Putin for all of this Russian shit through without reading it.

938 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:23:11am

re: #934 opnion

Oh no, I doubt that, he has gotten a life time leg up.

actually I think BO probably majored in Drama, theater, that sort of thing

939 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:23:29am

re: #930 Killgore Trout

Republican votes aren't needed to pass the bill. Republicans who might vote for the bill anyways will most likely face the fury of the Tea Party crowd. We'll see if any Republicans vote for it and what reaction comes from the base. It's a very simple statement.

By the same token, Blue Dogs ARE needed to pass any bill. Are they influenced by the republican base?
If so, by how much
And if so, WHY? They got voted in as Dems. I'm sure the repub base/ tea partiers didn't get them elected

940 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:23:58am

re: #930 Killgore Trout

Republican votes aren't needed to pass the bill. Republicans who might vote for the bill anyways will most likely face the fury of the Tea Party crowd. We'll see if any Republicans vote for it and what reaction comes from the base. It's a very simple statement.

THe Tea Party crowd? Stop it , stop it you're killin me!
The SEIU thugs that Barry unleashed on U.S citizens, that's ok?

941 kansas  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:24:25am

re: #940 opnion

THe Tea Party crowd? Stop it , stop it you're killin me!
The SEIU thugs that Barry unleashed on U.S citizens, that's ok?

Dude, two wrongs don't make a right. Cmon./

942 horse  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:24:27am

re: #933 jaunte

(Hasn't read the other signs, but knows they're wrong in advance)

Of course he does, that's part of being an arrogant jerk.

943 J.D.  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:24:34am

re: #934 opnion

Oh no, I doubt that, he has gotten a life time leg up.

How so?

944 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:24:42am

DOWN WITH TEA PARTY FURY!

945 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:24:49am

re: #938 albusteve

actually I think BO probably majored in Drama, theater, that sort of thing

He is a freaking drama queen.

946 Pianobuff  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:25:02am

New thread...

947 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:25:02am

re: #902 Killgore Trout

Healthcare lol

Wow, they look downright scary...just look at the evil and stupid drippin' off of them! ewww

Lucky for you Killgore, you have a much more sane and sophisticated group of demonstrators agreeing with your POV

948 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:25:40am

OT: Yes Prime Minister On the Arabs and Israel

949 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:26:09am

re: #941 kansas

Dude, two wrongs don't make a right. Cmon./

three lefts make a right!

I tried it. Took longer to drive there, but I made it!

950 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:26:16am

re: #930 Killgore Trout

Republican votes aren't needed to pass the bill. Republicans who might vote for the bill anyways will most likely face the fury of the Tea Party crowd. We'll see if any Republicans vote for it and what reaction comes from the base. It's a very simple statement.

Here's another statement. The Blue Dogs that cave in will be one termers...but that is of no concern to Rahm or Barack, is it? Just as long as they pass this bill, right?

951 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:27:46am

re: #947 Desert Dog

Wow, they look downright scary...just look at the evil and stupid drippin' off of them! ewww

Lucky for you Killgore, you have a much more sane and sophisticated group of demonstrators agreeing with your POV

Damn radicals. How dare that guy in the yellow button down shirt wear loafers with dress slacks!

952 horse  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:27:47am

re: #947 Desert Dog

Wow, they look downright scary...just look at the evil and stupid drippin' off of them! ewww

Lucky for you Killgore, you have a much more sane and sophisticated group of demonstrators agreeing with your POV

It also looks like Brooks Brothers fashion has gone crazy Target/Walmart casual.

953 kansas  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:27:52am

re: #950 Desert Dog

Here's another statement. The Blue Dogs that cave in will be one termers...but that is of no concern to Rahm or Barack, is it? Just as long as they pass this bill, right?

The Blue Dog that is my district might get another term if he gets off this shit, but he won't cause of the deals they are cutting to give them big lobbying jobs if they stay on board and get booted. Just a rumor though.

954 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:29:46am

re: #930 Killgore Trout

Republican votes aren't needed to pass the bill. Republicans who might vote for the bill anyways will most likely face the fury of the Tea Party crowd. We'll see if any Republicans vote for it and what reaction comes from the base. It's a very simple statement.

Your two original statements, taken together, remain contradictory.

Nice evasion, however.

955 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:29:46am
956 albusteve  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:29:58am

The bill is gone
The bill is gone away
The bill is gone baby
The bill is gone away
You know you done me wrong baby
And you'll be sorry someday

BB King

957 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:30:35am

re: #943 J.D.

How so?

He get's dumped on Grandama who dotes on him & works like a dog to send him to the best prep school in Hawaii (That's the grandma he villified as a racist)
According to his own memoir he was a stoner poor student, yetr he get's an academic college scholarship & fast tracked to the Ivy League.
President of Harvard Law Review & no artcles?
An obsure IL State Senator, shoots to the U.S Senate & has a cup of coffee & just campaigns for President.
Bingo, he wins with a much a slogans.
Lots of leg ups.

958 Macker  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:33:25am

re: #957 opnion

Simply put: Оба́ма didn't love his grandma the way any decent person should...but loved his grandma's MONEY.

959 yochanan  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:33:33am

re: #912 Sharmuta

i blame the woomba the other kind of bush

960 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:33:41am
961 J.D.  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:35:20am

re: #957 opnion

True, he had a lot of help for which many of us would not qualify.
I would still be willing to bet he failed miserably at economics if he even gave it a try.

962 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:35:23am

re: #820 kansas

Maybe Obama is wising up to the fact that voters are wising up to Obama. Off topic, is anyone here getting one of those Michelle Obama dolls from the Danbury Mint?

I've got my commemorative plate.

963 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:35:34am

re: #939 sattv4u2
?
I think the problem is that you're trying to twist my statements into something that I didn't say and don't believe. Since this is turning into a strawman squabble I'll just move up to the next thread.

964 J.D.  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:36:40am

re: #960 taxfreekiller

Next shoe to drop to attempt to get the commie health care bill off life support.

Monday,,,"tort reform" will be floated.

By who?

That would be fabulous, but I'm not seeing anyone who is interested in broaching that topic.

965 opnion  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:37:11am

re: #958 Macker

Simply put: Оба́ма didn't love his grandma the way any decent person should...but loved his grandma's MONEY.

He showed extreme disloyalty & lack of gtratitude. That woman sacraficed for the little pecker.

966 J.D.  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:39:16am

re: #962 FrogMarch

I've got my commemorative plate.

Is it this one?
Obama Commemorative Plate

967 American Sabra  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:42:53am

Not to beat a dead horse (grin), but I wanted to be a little more clear about the Native American assimilation issue upthread because I may have contradicted myself.

I think there's two kinds of assimilation. There's a "physical" assimilation where you take on the look and outer culture of the new group. You wear the same clothes, listen to the same music, eat their foods, etc. Then there's a "spiritual" assimilation or an inner assimilation that applies to religion or tradition. The trick is to physically assimilate without losing yourself, as it were, and the only way to keep your own culture within a culture is if you have the people there to support it. Moving off the rez where there are few N.A. of your nation is like a silent genocide.

968 Athens Runaway  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:48:54am

re: #967 American Sabra

Slightly OT, but here's another kind of physical assimilation. XD

Back on topic, I'd argue that it's possible (and should be encouraged) to "spiritually assimilate" into a nation without losing your identity. The Irish immigrants certainly became Americans did so without losing their identity as Irish.

I blame the hyphenation of nationalities. People start thinking of themselves as something separate from American, and behave as such.

"American" isn't a race, it's a state of mind.

969 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:51:35am

re: #966 J.D.

Is it this one?
Obama Commemorative Plate

I hope it's biodegradable.

970 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:54:38am

re: #839 sattv4u2

Better yet, to assuage the anti-religious faction on the left, we'll call it

UN-CROSS/ RED SHEILD

Red Crescent? So as not to offend anyone.

971 gregb  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 11:01:22am

re: #891 horse

gross sex

Craniojivarophiliac.

972 yochanan  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 11:04:34am

re: #932 Shug

I'd like to stand behind him with a sign that says

STILL LIVES AT HOME WITH HIS PARENTS

or he still works for congresscritter jan s. (husband was convicted of tax evasion and bank fraud)

973 yochanan  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 11:05:32am

re: #969 FrogMarch

I hope it's biodegradable.

photo shop that with a pile of doggie du.

974 garycooper  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 11:19:31am

re: #619 LudwigVanQuixote

Ahhh, yes, you are the one who still refuses to look at actual data.

You are the one who brought a debunked list of 400 "scientists" , where many of the "scientists" were economists, political hacks and tv weathermen.

When Charles pointed it out to you. You said you already knew that the list had been debunked - and yet you brought it anyway.

Now as to less than a degree, you need to understand how dramatic a change that is over a whole planet and that not only is the temp going up, but the rate at which it is increasing is also going up.

Further. Had you actually read this, you would see that if you consider the present warming trivial, than you must consider the medieval warm period even more trivial.

As to high foreheads, I don't know about that, but you would feel less threatened by scientists and other smart people who actually know what they are talking about, if you took the time to open your eyes and think.

None of your angry prattle means anything, Lud. I know your arguments much better than you do. My argument contains yours.

Less than one degree, in the past century. No warming, in the past decade. You can't reconcile these indisputable facts, with the AGW-hysteria. It can't be done. You do the math, Teach.

975 shortshrift  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 11:54:57am

re: #968 Athens Runaway

Slightly OT, but here's another kind of physical assimilation. XD

I blame the hyphenation of nationalities. People start thinking of themselves as something separate from American, and behave as such.

"American" isn't a race, it's a state of mind.

America is a state. It is a jurisdiction of laws, a constitutional republic and a democracy. The law should tolerate no conflicting cultural practices or foreign laws, but otherwise every individual is free to join with others in enjoying rites, customs, rituals, dress, food, ancestral clan jamborees etc. of other times and places.
The idea of reservations - quasi-autonomous
jurisdictions - is highly problematic philosophically. Insofar as it confers rights in the collective, not the individual, it is contrary to American jurisprudence.

976 shortshrift  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 12:35:49pm

re: #974 garycooper

One of the aspects of the debate that should be examined is what constitutes "debunking".
A list of dissenters is not "debunked" when a few on the list withdraw their names, or are found to be fakes. Petitions are always subject to abuse.
As for who is "qualified" to be on a dissenting list - some scientists, but not others, some who work in the field, but not others - that is irrelevant to the purpose of the list - to show a number of dissenters. Every one of the dissenter lists contains many established scientists once you have removed the names that should not be there (they changed their minds, were mistakenly put on in the first place, did not exist.)
Conversely, when professional scientific bodies take a pro-AGW stance - they are assuming general agreement. Many scientists in such bodies are not actually working in climate science, have not read much on either side, but are happy to go along with the party line. I know of one such - a well-known biologist - personally. So a "Society" endorsement of a position is not evidence of consensus.
Content of argument is what is important. Who is saying it, for what motive, under whose auspices, funded by whomever - not part of the debate. The actual scientific journals are filled with studies that either confirm or challenge the evidence for AGW. The scientist may or may not be moved to undertake the studies in order to prove a particular theory. Some are honest enough to let the findings speak for themselves, some tinker with them. "Debunking " is a long, slow process of sifting, re-evaluation, careful examination, mathematics checking...
Any argument that relies on any non-substantive rebuttal does not debunk.
I understand why this is not the forum for substantive scientific discusssion, which is probably why it always comes down to whether there is a respecatble opposition to AGW. By saying that the dissenters are knaves, fools, stooges and, in any case, so few it hardly matters what they say, one can avoid going into the substance, pace LudwigVanQuixote and a few others . LVQ often dazzles with restating premises and fundamental laws, but he is gnostic with respect to causal conclusions.

977 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:26:30pm
978 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 16, 2009 3:27:42pm

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