Now someone tell me that the moonbats were ever this brazen?

The moonbats were this brazen, but they don't believe in guns.
As an Arizonian, I am embarrassed. We aren't all like that.

Somebody certainly acted "stupidly" here!

KT was correct, the group appears to be full blown alex jones / infowars wingnuts.

re: #1 LudwigVanQuixote

Now someone tell me that the moonbats were ever this brazen?

Moonbats are scared of big, bad, ugly guns.

I was there with him today (we're fellow activists from the same group). The reason he wasn't arrested, apart from the fact he is black, is because we called Phx.P.D. last night to inform them we were coming. We told them there would be several of us,...but left out the part about the AR-15. They assigned us a P.D. liazon officer, who met us down there and was our own personal escort the entire time. Everyone was well-behaved and all went well. We had no intention of confronting anyone. We were there for the photo op.

We couldn't let New Hampshire out-do us now, could we?!

Earlier in the thread they give his username.
Judging from the fellow travelers in the pics they appear to be Ron Paul/Alex Jones types.

Tylenol aint gonna cure this headache.

re: #5 Erik The Red

Moonbats are scared of big, bad, ugly guns.

Yes they are. That is why they are vastly less dangerous in the long run.

Let's see how Fox eats this up... Ohhh, they will "disapprove" but they will be sure to make it sound like a natural consequence of average Americans just being fed up with Obama - and therefore completely understandable.

4409 Youtube Channel, they love their luap nor

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

re: #8 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes they are. That is why they are vastly less dangerous in the long run.

Yeah tell that to the home invader. Bet he gets the memo.

re: #9 LudwigVanQuixote

Maybe they won't report it at all.

re: #12 Erik The Red

Yeah tell that to the home invader. Bet he gets the memo.

Me think most gun owners do not let others know they have guns.

The forum seems to be affiliated with the Arizona Citizens Defense League. Looks like some sort of gun advocacy group.

anti vaxxers too

re: #17 Thanos

Iiiiyeee!

re: #12 Erik The Red

Yeah tell that to the home invader. Bet he gets the memo.

Oh for crying out loud, you know full well that I am talking about something completely different. Don't try to turn this into a Second Amendment debate. I assure you that the Second Amendment does not protect threatening the United States Government.

Just ask Shay and his Rebellion, or the Whiskey Rebellion folks, or Lee Harvey Oswald.

re: #17 Thanos

I'll bet they hate Lincoln too.

Chill out peeps.

Her Morning Elegance / Oren Lavie

re: #17 Thanos

anti vaxxers too

[Video]

And Moon Hoaxers as mentioned previously.

re: #14 Cannadian Club Akbar

Me think most gun owners do not let others know they have guns.

I do to. When I carried no one, not even my kids and wife knew most of the time. Only when I got a surprise hug. This is a demo and no laws were broken. Was it smart? No.

I'm clueless...what's this about exactly? Links will do...

re: #19 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh for crying out loud, you know full well that I am talking about something completely different. Don't try to turn this into a Second Amendment debate. I assure you that the Second Amendment does not protect threatening the United States Government.

Just ask Shay and his Rebellion, or the Whiskey Rebellion folks, or Lee Harvey Oswald.

And you just turned it into exactly that.

/I had no idea what you were talking about.

re: #17 Thanos

anti vaxxers too

Captain, the Computer reads a high degree of FAIL. I recommend disengagement!

re: #24 taxfreekiller

Ummm Oklahoma City was bombed by right wing conspiracy nuts...

re: #19 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh for crying out loud, you know full well that I am talking about something completely different. Don't try to turn this into a Second Amendment debate. I assure you that the Second Amendment does not protect threatening the United States Government.

Just ask Shay and his Rebellion, or the Whiskey Rebellion folks, or Lee Harvey Oswald.

Where were the threats. Who did them and, at whom were the directed at?

re: #8 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes they are. That is why they are vastly less dangerous in the long run.

What do you base that on?

We're already reaching very frightening levels of "dissent" when Americans don't think there's a problem with taking a gun near the president.

re: #26 Racer X

And you just turned it into exactly that.

/I had no idea what you were talking about.

Racer, the debate is not about gun ownership. OK? Anyone with a brain gets this. The point is that you have to be crazy to think that toting guns to political events is ok by any yardstick. The history were individuals who ran afoul of the notion that government does or should take kindly to threats from gun toting folks - and don't tell me this wasn't about being intimidating or threatening either.

I like the fact that the only guy carrying the AR15 is a black guy. That kind of makes it hard for the regular suspects to cry racism or "fear of a black president", which is a common, misused tactic coming from that side. Apparently carrying guns like this is 100% legal in Arizona, so I can't really see what the fuss is about.

re: #29 taxfreekiller

Won't happen tfk, I've broke hundreds of chains (normal wear and tear) cutting trees, they're wasting their time. A spike would raise hell in a sawmill with a high speed band-saw,though.

my g_d noes... a dozen people showed up, exercised their right to peaceably assemble, exercised their right to free speech, and also exercised their right to keep and bear arms all at the same time somewhere in the general area of a building inside of which the Messiah was holding a balanced town hall meeting. The horror, the humanity...this kind of unbridled, irresponsible lawfulness needs to stop and stop now.

" Phoenix police said the gun-toters at Monday's event, including the man carrying an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle slung over his shoulder, didn't need permits. No crimes were committed, and no one was arrested.
The man with the rifle declined to be identified but told The Arizona Republic that he was carrying the assault weapon because he could. "In Arizona, I still have some freedoms," he said."

re: #30 Erik The Red

Where were the threats. Who did them and, at whom were the directed at?

In the real world where normal people live, seeing someone shouting slogans while carrying a rifle is considered threatening. Don't be fatuous.

It ain't going away: Section 1233

The administration still intends to control medical costs by

(1) reducing fraud and waste
(2) reducing admin cost thru a single payer mechanism and
(3) limiting payments for Americans' medical treatments.

That third objective will not go away. One provision has been put aside for the moment, as a political expedient to induce people who disagree with Obamacare to quiet down and get out of the way.

When it was one guy the other day I though ehe, whatever. But now there are more. I think maybe the media coverage might have something to do with it. I do believe that the 2nd amendment was indented to protect us from our own government, but I don't think that the guys that wrote it intended rifles to be used as picket signs. Just my 2 cents.

re: #37 Airborn Swine

The horror, the humanity...this kind of unbridled, irresponsible lawfulness needs to stop and stop now.

It does need to stop now before some idiot takes this idea too far and rips this country in half.

Rat-eating plant discovered in Philippines

A carnivorous pitcher plant that eats rats and insects has been discovered in the Philippines and named after Sir David Attenborough.

The plant is among the largest of all pitchers and is believed to be the largest meat-eating shrub, dissolving rats with acid-like enzymes.

The team of botanists, led by British experts Stewart McPherson and Alastair Robinson, found the plant on Mount Victoria in the Philippines.

They were inspired to search for the plant after word that it is existed came from two Christian missionaries who described seeing a large carnivorous pitcher in 2000 after they climbed the mountain.

Mr McPherson, of Poole Dorset, said: "The plant produces spectacular traps which catch not only insects, but also rodents. It is remarkable that it remained undiscovered until the 21st century."

KT, in the forum do they say the group is 4409? Finding some links here, need to confirm...

re: #31 Bagua

What do you base that on?

I base it on the fact that a hippie with a puppet is less of a physical threat to my - or anyone's - well being than an angry conspiracy theorist with a loaded fire-arm.

This should be common sense.

re: #33 Sharmuta

We're already reaching very frightening levels of "dissent" when Americans don't think there's a problem with taking a gun near the president.

It's pretty shocking. This is why democracy doesn't work in the middle east; brandishing guns and death threats are not things I expect to see in politics in civilized countries.

re: #34 LudwigVanQuixote

Well I agree with you there. Guns do not belong anywhere near a political rally. Period. *Unless they are being worn by law enforcement.

re: #45 Killgore Trout

It's pretty shocking. This is why democracy doesn't work in the middle east; brandishing guns and death threats are not things I expect to see in politics in civilized countries.

But it's going to win back Congress in 2010 and the White House in 2012, KT! //

re: #43 Thanos

Look at the pictures they took at the rally. One of the people interviewing him had on a 4409 t-shirt. There's a video out around of one of the interviewers also wearing a gun. There's also a few Ron Paul t-shirts too.

re: #46 taxfreekiller

You're right, they did try and did destroy a lot of equipment, I think Ashland Oregon had one particularly nasty incident. Cut brake lines are certainly no joke.

re: #5 Erik The Red

Moonbats are scared of big, bad, ugly guns.

Eric: I assume you've never met the many moonbats who served in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

re: #47 Racer X

Well I agree with you there. Guns do not belong anywhere near a political rally. Period. *Unless they are being worn by law enforcement.

I agree with that too, but then they should change the law.

re: #42 Racer X

Rat-eating plant discovered in Philippines

A carnivorous pitcher plant that eats rats and insects has been discovered in the Philippines and named after Sir David Attenborough.

Must feast on Islamic Extremists. If it liked Politicians it would have been discovered on the National Mall.

The fringe right isn't interested in calming down and behaving civilized because when they say they support a revolution, they're not kidding.

re: #52 ShanghaiEd

Eric: I assume you've never met the many moonbats who served in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

You know what? You are right. All the vets I have ever met, both overseas and here have all been more to the center than the left.

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Ah, the second pic show the interviewer also with a gun.

Freedom to bear arms or not, you have to be dumber than a box of rocks to think that bringing an assault rifle (or any kind of gun for that matter) to the place where the President is appearing. You're going to get to 'meet and greet' with the Secret Service for several hours, at the very least.

And for what? To make a point? You end up making Second Amendment proponents look like the lunatic fringe, and it plays right into the Left's hands.

re: #55 Sharmuta

The fringe right isn't interested in calming down and behaving civilized because when they say they support a revolution, they're not kidding.

Revolution. And not the Beatles.

re: #33 Sharmuta

We're already reaching very frightening levels of "dissent" when Americans don't think there's a problem with taking a gun near the president.

First offense? 48 hours, or until the President leaves town. Period.

Second offense? dunno...

re: #55 Sharmuta

The fringe right isn't interested in calming down and behaving civilized because when they say they support a revolution, they're not kidding.

The public option fiasco seems to be showing up Obama for a weak waffler who is well to the left of a large part of his base.
The desperate attempt by the MSM to divert attention from this serious split in the Dem party by reporting ad nauseum on the town halls and the antics of the far right is just not working.
I got downdinged earlier today for calling the Dems gutless on this issue, but can anyone call them brave or principled?
The Republicans are scoring big in spite of their whacko wing.

re: #44 LudwigVanQuixote

I base it on the fact that a hippie with a puppet is less of a physical threat to my - or anyone's - well being than an angry conspiracy theorist with a loaded fire-arm.

This should be common sense.

It is a false comparison that you are using to advance a partisan bias. While I don't endorse openly carrying a fire-arm to a public event, to date this has resulted in no violence. Leftists, by contrast, have engineered one riot after another in the last few years.

It is fair to say those doing this are attention seeking, but to equate them with anarchists and criminals is unfair.

re: #55 Sharmuta

The fringe right isn't interested in calming down and behaving civilized because when they say they support a revolution, they're not kidding.

That's a very important point that a lot of people are dismissing. These guys are very serious and very crazy. When/if something happens they are going to be associated with Tea Parties, Healthcare Protests and Republicans. Nobody is willing to marginalize them.

Finding 4409 links to Luap Nor, Alex Jones, Amren, Anti vaxxer movement, and numerous other things...

One other thing from the forums:

I agree, but I wonder- if it does take two Phoenix Cops to escort one Freeman, how many do it take to escort 50 or 100?

re: #56 Erik The Red

You know what? You are right. All the vets I have ever met, both overseas and here have all been more to the center than the left.

Uh, Erik: Today, the center is the left.

re: #60 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

First offense? 48 hours, or until the President leaves town. Period.

Second offense? dunno...

One major problem...no offenses were commited here. Once again:

"Phoenix police said the gun-toters at Monday's event, including the man carrying an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle slung over his shoulder, didn't need permits. No crimes were committed, and no one was arrested."

Oh shit this is funny!

Turtle pr0n.

To the dimbulbs who hovered around a Presidential visit with open-carry firearms:

Thanks a lot, assholes!

In one fell swoop, you've simultaneously 1) helped paint any opposition to Obama's agenda as the work of creepy, extremist nutjobs, and 2) set back the cause of supporters of the 2nd Amendment, by painting us all as... well... creepy, extremist nutjobs.

Well done. You idiots.

re: #62 Bagua

With that said I do agree that they are idiots.

re: #13 Sharmuta

Maybe they won't report it at all.

Perhaps this will be too far beyond the pale for them to consider spinning. I stick by my original prediction though. This is exactly the seed they have been carefully nurturing.

I'm usually gracious when I win and argument but I'd like to take this opportunity to give out a big "fuck you" to those who insisted he was an Obama supporter because black.
/OK, I'll drop it now.

The leadership of the right needs to get its shit together in a damn hurry. Winston Churchill once said that when the Eagles are silent, the Parrots will speak.

And we're hearing a lot of parrots lately.

re: #64 Thanos

Finding 4409 links to Luap Nor, Alex Jones, Amren, Anti vaxxer movement, and numerous other things...

One other thing from the forums:

Bingo! Nice catch!

re: #64 Thanos

Wasn't the abortion doctor killer also associated with the Freeeman movement?

re: #71 Killgore Trout

I'm usually gracious when I win and argument but I'd like to take this opportunity to give out a big "fuck you" to those who insisted he was an Obama supporter because black.
/OK, I'll drop it now.

Pretend I'm dense (OK, don't pretend).

Huh?

re: #61 Spare O'Lake

So you think we need more crazy to combat Obama?

re: #62 Bagua

It is a false comparison that you are using to advance a partisan bias. While I don't endorse openly carrying a fire-arm to a public event, to date this has resulted in no violence. Leftists, by contrast, have engineered one riot after another in the last few years.

It is fair to say those doing this are attention seeking, but to equate them with anarchists and criminals is unfair.

Partisan bias - excuse me? Which part of fire-arms and political rallies don't mix is missing from your equation? Do you think I would be OK with moonbats toting weapons to political events either?

If I have a partisan bias at all, it is that I think I could easily take a dozen unarmed hippies with my hands if it came to it. I don't think I could do much about .223 however. The cops feel the same way.

re: #75 Racer X

When we were discussing this earlier a few lizards were insisting that his race meant that he had to be an Obama supporter.

re: #67 Racer X

Oh shit this is funny!

Turtle pr0n.

Dude needs to speed it up a bit. She looks like she is falling asleep.

re: #66 Airborn Swine

One major problem...no offenses were commited here. Once again:

"Phoenix police said the gun-toters at Monday's event, including the man carrying an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle slung over his shoulder, didn't need permits. No crimes were committed, and no one was arrested."

Airborn: A devil's advocate such as myself would say that, at least, the Left had the balls to actually break the law and be beaten by police and/or taken to jail; these gun-toting jokers knew they could act like tough guys and go home to their supper, laughing. Braggart pussies, IMO.

re: #79 Erik The Red

Dude needs to speed it up a bit. She looks like she is falling asleep.

I dated a girl like that. Oh, wait...

re: #46 taxfreekiller

read some reports from the Forrest Service at the time
they were out to kill the loggers, hurt the dozer operators, they cut
brake lines on the logging trucks, full blown nuts...

tfk if you're still here. here's a link you might be interested in detailing a lot of those incidents. Timber Wars

re: #79 Erik The Red

Dude needs to speed it up a bit. She looks like she is falling asleep.

I think this line was in Tom Clancy's The Bear and the Dragon:

"You know how turtles fornicate? In... out."

re: #42 Racer X

Rat-eating plant discovered in Philippines

A carnivorous pitcher plant that eats rats and insects has been discovered in the Philippines and named after Sir David Attenborough.

The plant is among the largest of all pitchers and is believed to be the largest meat-eating shrub, dissolving rats with acid-like enzymes.

The team of botanists, led by British experts Stewart McPherson and Alastair Robinson, found the plant on Mount Victoria in the Philippines.

They were inspired to search for the plant after word that it is existed came from two Christian missionaries who described seeing a large carnivorous pitcher in 2000 after they climbed the mountain.

Mr McPherson, of Poole Dorset, said: "The plant produces spectacular traps which catch not only insects, but also rodents. It is remarkable that it remained undiscovered until the 21st century."

It eats rats? Does it also eat rat-bastard leftists as well?

//

re: #78 Killgore Trout

When we were discussing this earlier a few lizards were insisting that his race meant that he had to be an Obama supporter.

OK, that is stupid.

*Virtual SMAK to whoever posted that*

re: #1 LudwigVanQuixote

Now someone tell me that the moonbats were ever this brazen?

[Link: www.ecoterrorist.net...]

re: #63 Killgore Trout

That's a very important point that a lot of people are dismissing. These guys are very serious and very crazy. When/if something happens they are going to be associated with Tea Parties, Healthcare Protests and Republicans. Nobody is willing to marginalize them.

Yeah but the public insurance option is going down anyways, and there is a big split in the Dem party with Obama being shown by Congress for the waffling socialist that he is.
And that's the bottom line, despite the few irrelevant right wing whackos.

Hey, it's their right to look like totally fucking moronic treasonous suicidal jackasses, and nobody is going to tell them not to exercise it!

re: #77 LudwigVanQuixote

No I am not OK with either party displaying fire-arms at political events that feature the POTUS.

However, to date there has been no violence and indeed no laws have been broken, alternatively, there has been a great deal of violence at political events perpetrated by leftists and anarchists in recent years.

As a group, with some notable exceptions, gun nuts tend to be a very law abiding group that is interested in preserving their right to bear arms by avoiding criminal convictions. Alternatively, the leftists seem to relish violent protests, vandalism, etc.

re: #33 Sharmuta

We're already reaching very frightening levels of "dissent" when Americans don't think there's a problem with taking a gun near the president.

These folks are not very near the President. Carry permit or no, the secret service is very strict about the perimeter they enforce.

When You Confiscate Mexican Drug Lords’ Property, Expect Gold, Big Homes, And Big Cats

Not only are you going to seize lions, tigers, panthers, cars, money and guns from Mexican drug-lords, you’re going to seize all of that stuff gilded in gold…

Where can I get me a golden AK-47?

Anybody?

Yikes!

re: #66 Airborn Swine

It should be an offense. Five miles away at a protest rally where the President of the United States Of America could not possibly be harmed... okay. But not within sight distance.

re: #90 buster

These folks are not very near the President. Carry permit or no, the secret service is very strict about the perimeter they enforce.

Um... that's not the point.

re: #1 LudwigVanQuixote

Now someone tell me that the moonbats were ever this brazen?

Rebecca Rubin, the "American Girl"

re: #37 Airborn Swine

my g_d noes... a dozen people showed up...words, words, words... but told The Arizona Republic that he was carrying the assault weapon because he could. "In Arizona, I still have some freedoms," he said."

OK guys: It *IS* a little bit ridiculous to show up to a peaceful protest carrying guns, but some conservatives feel the need to act "extra, Extra conservative" in the face of our government's OVERWHELMINGLY liberal administration and policies

Now, this wouldn't be my personal choice or response, but I can sorta understand where they are coming from...

re: #76 Sharmuta

So you think we need more crazy to combat Obama?

No but the hysteria is not justified.

re: #68 Occasional Reader

To the dimbulbs who hovered around a Presidential visit with open-carry firearms:

Thanks a lot, assholes!

In one fell swoop, you've simultaneously 1) helped paint any opposition to Obama's agenda as the work of creepy, extremist nutjobs, and 2) set back the cause of supporters of the 2nd Amendment, by painting us all as... well... creepy, extremist nutjobs.

Well done. You idiots.

Surely correct OR. They describe themselves here:

The reason he wasn't arrested, apart from the fact he is black, is because we called Phx.P.D. last night to inform them we were coming. We told them there would be several of us,...but left out the part about the AR-15. They assigned us a P.D. liazon officer, who met us down there and was our own personal escort the entire time. Everyone was well-behaved and all went well. We had no intention of confronting anyone. We were there for the photo op.

So in this case it was an organized publicity stunt.

I wonder if someone has formed Organized Publicity Stunt Inc. It is surely a growth market in demand by all sides.

re: #76 Sharmuta

So you think we need more crazy to combat Obama?

No, but we are gaining ground despite the crazies. Both the League of American Voters and the National Republican Trust are airing ads this month that will give us the additional media exposure we need. These crazies are a problem, but they won't stop us!

Sooo, there is a huge number of right wing extremists among us, just waiting to attack (many of them veterans from the war). There is a giant Ron Paul/John Birch Society/Nirther organization, capable of bringing 100,000's of people out for tea parties, and now...we have massive armed groups of rightwing nutjobs showing up at anything to do with Obama. Is that about where we are now?

Oh yes, I almost forgot, there was BDS in the past but it was not that bad, jsut some kids out having a little fun at GWB expense...

It is time to be afraid...the right has woken up, heaven help us all.

/sorta

re: #1 LudwigVanQuixote

Now someone tell me that the moonbats were ever this brazen?

[Link: www.libertysecurity.org...]

re: #67 Racer X

Oh shit this is funny!

Turtle pr0n.

I don't think she was that into it.

re: #66 Airborn Swine

One major problem...no offenses were commited here. Once again:

"Phoenix police said the gun-toters at Monday's event, including the man carrying an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle slung over his shoulder, didn't need permits. No crimes were committed, and no one was arrested."

WITH RIGHTS COME RESPONSIBILITIES.

I repeat:

WITH RIGHTS COME RESPONSIBILITIES.

Just because you CAN, under the law, openly carry a firearm right up to the perimeter of a Presidential visit, doesn't mean you SHOULD.

One question: What do you think Michael Moore's reaction was when he saw these photos? I'm guessing... he laughed, and then ate a celebratory cheesecake. This shit "proves" everything he wants to say.

re: #1 LudwigVanQuixote

Now someone tell me that the moonbats were ever this brazen?

The Real Domestic Terrorists

The Republicans are becoming more popular by letting Obama twist in the wind. They lack the votes to defeat him without major defections from the Democratic Party.

It's hilarious watching Obama and the Democrats try to blame the Republicans for the health care debacle. The GOP is showing NO leadership on this issue.

re: #86 Walter L. Newton

re: #94 Alouette

Guys, c'mon. No one doubts the existence of psycho leftists.

It's just that they are not openly coming to political functions with guns and bragging about it while receiving vast amounts of support for doing so from Fox and numerous very popular pundits!

OK

Can we get real now?

re: #97 experiencedtraveller

So in this case it was an organized publicity stunt.

I wonder if someone has formed Organized Publicity Stunt Inc. It is surely a growth market in demand by all sides.

Rent-a-moonbat/wingnut^TM, an equal-opportunity, affirmative-action company

re: #96 Spare O'Lake

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

You both have big buts.

re: #74 Killgore Trout

Wasn't the abortion doctor killer also associated with the Freeeman movement?

Yes, Roeder was into the Freeman thing early on.

I'm in trouble here, I can't figure out how I got to 4409 from the forum, I had a browser crash. So help me track back to where I picked up "4409" from, I can't find it now. (It wasn't off the guy's tee shirt either.)

re: #102 Occasional Reader

I doubt Mikey stopped at just one cheesecake. ;)

re: #96 Spare O'Lake

No but the hysteria is not justified.

Quite concur.

I am definitley getting old. I don't know what to make of these fools. How much is driven by facebook/youtube imperitives and how much by ideology. I can't pretend to know, though stupid at this level sure looks like modern day grandstanding to me.

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

These crazies are a problem, but they won't stop us!

The crazies will stop any electoral victory.

AP has more...

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Arizona is an "open-carry" state, which means anyone legally allowed to have a firearm can carry it in public as long as it's visible. Only someone carrying a concealed weapon is required to have a permit.

Paul Helmke, president of the Washington, D.C.-based Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said people should not be allowed to bring guns to events where Obama is.

"To me, this is craziness," he said. "When you bring a loaded gun, particularly a loaded assault rifle, to any political event, but particularly to one where the president is appearing, you're just making the situation dangerous for everyone."

He said people who bring guns to presidential events are distracting the Secret Service and law enforcement from protecting the president. "The more guns we see at more events like this, there's more potential for something tragic happening," he said.

Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan said armed demonstrators in open-carry states such as Arizona and New Hampshire have little impact on security plans for the president.

"In both cases, the subject was not entering our site or otherwise attempting to," Donovan said. "They were in a designated public viewing area. The main thing to know is that they would not have been allowed inside with a weapon."

DOLLAR REDE$IGN PROJECT

We hope to bring about change for everyone. We want to redesign the US Dollar.

...and just about everything else in America it seems.

May have already been posted, but I didn't see it.

What is the rule. How much of a "perimeter" is the Secret Service allowed to set up?

As much as they think they need? Or is there an established boundary?

re: #96 Spare O'Lake

No but the hysteria is not justified.

It's "hysteria" to think people shouldn't have loaded guns near the President?

re: #105 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #94 Alouette

Guys, c'mon. No one doubts the existence of psycho leftists.

It's just that they are not openly coming to political functions with guns and bragging about it while receiving vast amounts of support for doing so from Fox and numerous very popular pundits!

OK

Can we get real now?

I did, you didn't.

Stop trying to make excuses for the progressive nut cases. No more than I wouldn't make excuses for these right wing nut cases. So, the eco terrorist do their shit in the cover of darkness and these idiots carry their guns in public at political functions.

I don't want any of them to be able to do this stuff.

re: #105 LudwigVanQuixote

No doubt these people show poor judgement and weaken the issues they promote. But if in fact they are law abiding citizens who are not breaking laws, not advocating violence or making threats, then they are far more benign than those who have openly rioted at events when President Bush was POTUS.

Sigh.

The gunmen are all up in sweats
Over threats that aren't even threats.
Let Obama beware;
We show that we care
By the size of our gun-purchase debts.

re: #102 Occasional Reader

One question: What do you think Michael Moore's reaction was when he saw these photos? I'm guessing... he laughed, and then ate a celebratory cheesecake. This shit "proves" everything he wants to say.

In what whacked out bizarro world should we for a second consider the reaction of Jabba the Propagandist before exercising any of your constitutionally protected rights ?

Open carry may very well be the law in Arizona, I don't know, but if there's not some sort of federal law that gives the Secret Service authority to enforce a security zone around the President, excluding whatever weapons they deem appropriate to exclude, I'd be very much surprised.

Regardless whether these guys were breaking AZ law, the supremacy clause of Art. IV p. 2 is part of the Constitution too.

re: #114 Racer X

...and just about everything else in America it seems.

Make the $1 bill a coin for crying out loud.

re: #91 Racer X

Yikes!

I'd rather have one of the M1911A1's myself. The patterns on them are quite lovely. Think I most like this one. The moving parts and muzzle are a nice deep blue finish, so you can actually fire the weapon without marring the decorations.

It will take exactly one of these folks to make a little more of a point with is rifle to cause a lot of deaths in a crossfire. Isn't it obvious this is coming?

re: #122 Erik The Red

Make the $1 bill a coin for crying out loud.

Are you looney?

re: #115 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

May have already been posted, but I didn't see it.

What is the rule. How much of a "perimeter" is the Secret Service allowed to set up?

As much as they think they need? Or is there an established boundary?

I have to think it is situational. On a desert plain, the perimeter should probably be miles in diameter.

re: #124 LudwigVanQuixote

It will take exactly one of these folks to make a little more of a point with is rifle to cause a lot of deaths in a crossfire. Isn't it obvious this is coming?

And it's what some folks hope happen. Disgusting.

re: #118 Bagua

No doubt these people show poor judgement and weaken the issues they promote. But if in fact they are law abiding citizens who are not breaking laws, not advocating violence or making threats, then they are far more benign than those who have openly rioted at events when President Bush was POTUS.

They are waving firearms as a political statement at events that have nothing to do at all with firearms. It is pure intimidation and if just one of these rednecks looses it, many people will get shot. You have got to be crazy to think that these people are responsible gun owners or safe to be around.

re: #124 LudwigVanQuixote

It will take exactly one of these folks to make a little more of a point with is rifle to cause a lot of deaths in a crossfire. Isn't it obvious this is coming?

No. It's not.

re: #120 Airborn Swine

In what whacked out bizarro world should we for a second consider the reaction of Jabba the Propagandist before exercising any of your constitutionally protected rights ?

In what whacked out bizarro world should you actively hand the gun-grabbers a propaganda victory?

re: #124 LudwigVanQuixote

It will take exactly one of these folks to make a little more of a point with is rifle to cause a lot of deaths in a crossfire. Isn't it obvious this is coming?

Anything is possible, obvious, no.

re: #107 Sharmuta

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

You both have big buts.

Upding for the pun.
However, you are clearly behind on this issue.

re: #120 Airborn Swine

In what whacked out bizarro world should we for a second consider the reaction of Jabba the Propagandist before exercising any of your constitutionally protected rights ?

I care not a fig about Michael Moore's opinion, but I care very much about how a propagandist such as he might use the images we are seeing to tar all conservatives.

re: #51 JHW

You're right, they did try and did destroy a lot of equipment, I think Ashland Oregon had one particularly nasty incident. Cut brake lines are certainly no joke.

Like the brake lines that Sarah Palin's son cut, on the school buses? An offense which was covered up by the "leftist" media?

re: #125 Alouette

Are you looney?

No, just a tad Suzy.

Why would anyone try to rationalize the behaviour of these creeps. The act is a clear threat. Excuse that as you like, but that is what the message from these low-lifes is.

re: #1 LudwigVanQuixote

Now someone tell me that the moonbats were ever this brazen?

"The Sanctuary For Independent Media, a project of the New York Media Alliance, is proudly welcoming Liberal America’s favorite local terrorist, Bill Ayers and his wife Bernardine Dohrn to Troy New York on May 9th. Bill and his wife are going to talk about racism in the United States. Apparently they are concerned that even though it’s the Democrats and Barack Obama leading this country and David Paterson, Malcolm Smith, Sheldon Silver and a majority of Democrats running New York State, they are all still allowing racism to continue in the justice system, education and housing. "

[Link: monroerising.com...]

There are nut cases on all sides.

re: #131 Walter L. Newton

Anything is possible, obvious, no.

High emotion + politics + conspiracy nuts who think the government is coming to kill them anyway + loaded weapons...

What could possibly go wrong?

Are you insane?

re: #113 FrogMarch

Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan said armed demonstrators in open-carry states such as Arizona and New Hampshire have little impact on security plans for the president.

"In both cases, the subject was not entering our site or otherwise attempting to," Donovan said. "They were in a designated public viewing area. The main thing to know is that they would not have been allowed inside with a weapon."

Well, there you go.

"What a country!"--Yakov Smirnoff

re: #106 Alouette

Rent-a-moonbat/wingnut^TM, an equal-opportunity, affirmative-action company

We offer salary, commission, 401k and are an Equal Opportunity Employer. ;)

re: #122 Erik The Red

Make the $1 bill a coin for crying out loud.

Not sure I agree with you on that. They are going to revamp the penny though.

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

I'd rather have one of the M1911A1's myself. The patterns on them are quite lovely. Think I most like this one. The moving parts and muzzle are a nice deep blue finish, so you can actually fire the weapon without marring the decorations.

Disagree. I think M1911's that are all "blinged out" like that look stupid. Give me some nice rosewood grips instead, any day. A guy at my range has a real treasure of a Wilson Combat commander-sized M1911... which, to my mind, is somewhat ruined by the goofy mother-of-pearl grips with the stupid Death's Head design.

re: #128 LudwigVanQuixote

They are waving firearms as a political statement at events that have nothing to do at all with firearms. It is pure intimidation and if just one of these rednecks looses it, many people will get shot. You have got to be crazy to think that these people are responsible gun owners or safe to be around.

The crazies will not come out to play because they would be dead in a heart beat. No martyrdom for them.

re: #124 LudwigVanQuixote

It will take exactly one of these folks to make a little more of a point with is rifle to cause a lot of deaths in a crossfire. Isn't it obvious this is coming?

No it is not obvious, it takes criminal intent to actually shoot at some-one unlawfully. The presence of law abiding citizens bearing arms leads to greater safety, not greater threat. You are conflating potential for violence with actual violence.

Again, I do not appreciate their grandstanding or support it in any way, but it is wrong to exaggerate their impact or blame them for uncommitted crimes.

re: #129 Airborn Swine

No. It's not.

Indeed. All those weapons were carried safely and none of their users did anything that could be considered preparation to fire them. They were slung or holstered and the safeties were engaged.

re: #107 Sharmuta

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

You both have big buts.

I like big "buts", and I cannot lie.

re: #136 The Shadow Do

Why would anyone try to rationalize the behaviour of these creeps. The act is a clear threat. Excuse that as you like, but that is what the message from these low-lifes is.

as Duke Nukem used to say...
"what a mess"
I'm in favor of restrictive arms rules near officials, of some sort...probably not a new idea

re: #117 Walter L. Newton

I did, you didn't.

Stop trying to make excuses for the progressive nut cases. No more than I wouldn't make excuses for these right wing nut cases. So, the eco terrorist do their shit in the cover of darkness and these idiots carry their guns in public at political functions.

I don't want any of them to be able to do this stuff.

I am not making excuses for any nutcases. I am pointing out that your nutcases are more common, more mainstream, more numerous, more dangerous and more supported by the major media and major politicians.

re: #143 Erik The Red

The crazies will not come out to play because they would be dead in a heart beat. No martyrdom for them.

I hope you're right. But I'm no longer willing to bet you are.

re: #138 LudwigVanQuixote

High emotion + politics + conspiracy nuts who think the government is coming to kill them anyway + loaded weapons...

What could possibly go wrong?

Are you insane?

You make a all inclusive definitive statement that it WILL happen. There is no way in the world you can say that with any sort of absolute knowledge.

You believe that could happen, you have no knowledge that it will.

And stop with the name calling.

re: #135 Erik The Red

No, just a tad Suzy.

I think you're just a great, big, Sac a'...

re: #143 Erik The Red

The crazies will not come out to play because they would be dead in a heart beat. No martyrdom for them.

High emotion + politics + conspiracy nuts who think the government is coming to kill them anyway + loaded weapons...

What could possibly go wrong?

Are you insane?

re: #144 Bagua

No it is not obvious, it takes criminal intent to actually shoot at some-one unlawfully. The presence of law abiding citizens bearing arms leads to greater safety, not greater threat. You are conflating potential for violence with actual violence.

Again, I do not appreciate their grandstanding or support it in any way, but it is wrong to exaggerate their impact or blame them for uncommitted crimes.

High emotion + politics + conspiracy nuts who think the government is coming to kill them anyway + loaded weapons...

What could possibly go wrong?

Are you insane?

re: #134 ShanghaiEd

Like the brake lines that Sarah Palin's son cut, on the school buses? An offense which was covered up by the "leftist" media?

The leftist media did a great job then. I've not heard of this.

re: #142 Occasional Reader

Disagree. I think M1911's that are all "blinged out" like that look stupid. Give me some nice rosewood grips instead, any day. A guy at my range has a real treasure of a Wilson Combat commander-sized M1911... which, to my mind, is somewhat ruined by the goofy mother-of-pearl grips with the stupid Death's Head design.

Then replace the grips. I still love that one's finish. The bluing is truly lovely.

re: #150 Walter L. Newton

You make a all inclusive definitive statement that it WILL happen. There is no way in the world you can say that with any sort of absolute knowledge.

You believe that could happen, you have no knowledge that it will.

And stop with the name calling.

High emotion + politics + conspiracy nuts who think the government is coming to kill them anyway + loaded weapons...

What could possibly go wrong?

Are you insane?

You have got to be kidding. People are going to defend this?!

re: #38 LudwigVanQuixote

And yet somehow, to our new AG, armed thugs threatening citizens trying to vote with ominously swinging nightsticks are not worthy of indictment.
Go figure.

re: #148 LudwigVanQuixote

I am not making excuses for any nutcases. I am pointing out that your nutcases are more common, more mainstream, more numerous, more dangerous and more supported by the major media and major politicians.

Are you keeping count. I just linked to 4 different groups that comprise of a multitude of crazy leftists.

You chose to ignore.

re: #148 LudwigVanQuixote

I am not making excuses for any nutcases. I am pointing out that your nutcases are more common, more mainstream, more numerous, more dangerous and more supported by the major media and major politicians.

You left out "more law abiding."

And since when is the media more supportive of the conservative nutcases?

re: #143 Erik The Red

The crazies will not come out to play because they would be dead in a heart beat. No martyrdom for them.

What makes you think they don't want death or martyrdom?

re: #19 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh for crying out loud, you know full well that I am talking about something completely different. Don't try to turn this into a Second Amendment debate. I assure you that the Second Amendment does not protect threatening the United States Government.

Just ask Shay and his Rebellion, or the Whiskey Rebellion folks, or Lee Harvey Oswald.

From The Constitution of the United States, The Second Amendment:
"A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
Ludwig, I assure you that the Second Amendment protects the Citizens of the United States to bear arms against a government that betrays the Constitution. The Congress need have no fear of a disarmed population.

re: #134 ShanghaiEd

And why pray tell did you bring this up in a peripheral discussion about eco-terrorists. To minimize their law-breaking? I could give a shit about discussing some politician's children's foibles. I did not mention the media, leftist or otherwise in my post. Trying to be obnoxious?

re: #122 Erik The Red

Make the $1 bill a coin for crying out loud.

As long as it is HEAVY. For crying out loud how many times will our Treasury get this wrong?

The dollar coin must be HEAVY.

re: #162 NelsFree

From The Constitution of the United States, The Second Amendment:
"A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
Ludwig, I assure you that the Second Amendment protects the Citizens of the United States to bear arms against a government that betrays the Constitution. The Congress need have no fear of a disarmed population.

Nels, I assure you that these fools are not part of a well regulated militia and that the Second Amendment does not apply.

re: #164 experiencedtraveller

As long as it is HEAVY. For crying out loud how many times will our Treasury get this wrong?

The dollar coin must be HEAVY.

Fully agreed. I've been advocating for depleted uranium for the $1 coin, myself.

David Axelrod made them bring those guns! It's the left's fault!

re: #155 Dark_Falcon

Then replace the grips. I still love that one's finish. The bluing is truly lovely.

I do like the bluing. But the "gold" slide release and trigger are stupid.

re: #164 experiencedtraveller

As long as it is HEAVY. For crying out loud how many times will our Treasury get this wrong?

The dollar coin must be HEAVY.

We can call it the "Heavy D". After a rapper, no less.

re: #154 Racer X

The leftist media did a great job then. I've not heard of this.

Came form the Sarah Palin is getting a divorce and is a sekrit hooker innerweb.
If it is true, I guarantee we will hear about it from breathless alphabet channel reporters.

re: #116 Sharmuta

It's "hysteria" to think people shouldn't have loaded guns near the President?

Of course not. But lately the fixation on the radical right and the resultant chorus of whining and hand-wringing around here has gotten to a bit hard to take.

re: #164 experiencedtraveller

As long as it is HEAVY. For crying out loud how many times will our Treasury get this wrong?

The dollar coin must be HEAVY.

Yep. Chunky, heavy, feels different... like the one pound coin in the UK. This isn't frickkin' rocket science, guys. It they come out with one more dollar coin that looks/feels like a quarter...

OK I'm up to speed enough on this to say my 2 cents. Which is, the Secret Service doesn't see any problem, so I don't either.

Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan said armed demonstrators in open-carry states such as Arizona and New Hampshire have little impact on security plans for the president.
"In both cases, the subject was not entering our site or otherwise attempting to," Donovan said. "They were in a designated public viewing area. The main thing to know is that they would not have been allowed inside with a weapon."

re: #157 Sharmuta

You have got to be kidding. People are going to defend this?!

To some extent, its expected to be defended, no laws were violated.
It may be stupid, but that's not illegal yet.

Well, kids... We're stump chasin' this one. I'm going to bed.

G'night John-Boy!

re: #165 LudwigVanQuixote

Nels, I assure you that these fools are not part of a well regulated militia and that the Second Amendment does not apply.

John Walker, another leftist terrorist.

it's not about left or right...it's about personal responsibility and common sense...I don't give a shit what happened five years ago...I want solutions now, here in the present...the rest is just a waste of time

re: #162 NelsFree

From The Constitution of the United States, The Second Amendment:
"A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
Ludwig, I assure you that the Second Amendment protects the Citizens of the United States to bear arms against a government that betrays the Constitution. The Congress need have no fear of a disarmed population.

Walking violence right up to the line. Interesting.

re: #93 Occasional Reader

Um... that's not the point.

These folks were there to stir turds. They certainly did that. Is it smart? I am of the opinion that it isn't. It marginalizes everyone who is there to disagree with the government. I was just making the point that their sideshow is not (as some are suggesting) a physical threat to the President.

re: #175 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, kids... We're stump chasin' this one. I'm going to bed.

G'night John-Boy!

'Night, Mary Ellen!

re: #168 Occasional Reader

I do like the bluing. But the "gold" slide release and trigger are stupid.

Agreed. Better a proper custom trigger and a checkered slide release.

re: #171 Spare O'Lake

Of course not. But lately the fixation on the radical right and the resultant chorus of whining and hand-wringing around here has gotten to a bit hard to take.

Fixation?

re: #165 LudwigVanQuixote

Nels, I assure you that these fools are not part of a well regulated militia and that the Second Amendment does not apply.

Adam Yahiye Gadahn leftist terrorist.

Later Lizards. I am going to dream about what new guns I am going to buy to replace what I had to leave in S.Africa. Gun p0rn=weet dreams.

re: #163 JHW

And why pray tell did you bring this up in a peripheral discussion about eco-terrorists. To minimize their law-breaking? I could give a shit about discussing some politician's children's foibles. I did not mention the media, leftist or otherwise in my post. Trying to be obnoxious?

Common thread: cutting brake lines, danger to human life.

re: #165 LudwigVanQuixote

Nels, I assure you that these fools are not part of a well regulated militia and that the Second Amendment does not apply.

I am sure you are self-assured. I doubt the veracity of your statements. It is my opinion that your reality filters are turned up too high.
Beer?

re: #156 LudwigVanQuixote

High emotion + politics + conspiracy nuts who think the government is coming to kill them anyway + loaded weapons...

What could possibly go wrong?

Are you insane?

Something can always go wrong my friend, every car driving down the street could suddenly become a deadly weapon should the driver turn homicidal maniac.

The key here is criminal action and criminal intent, criminals and mentally deranged people are dangerous, with or without guns. Virtually every state disqualifies these people from gun ownership and carry.

These exhibitionists have brought themselves a lot of attention, if they are not squeaky clean they will find themselves losing their rights.

re: #176 Walter L. Newton

John Walker, another leftist terrorist.

Oh for crying out loud... Do you want me to list all of the individual rightwing whacks out there too... I could start with Mussolini perhaps...

The bottom line is that these folks are part of an organized media campaign with much broader support than any of the lefties you have mentioned. The bottom line is that you are actually trying to defend them.

re: #185 ShanghaiEd

There was no left or right position in my post.

Good to see that some people still have the courage to stand up for their rights, regardless of the condemnation they knew they would face from both sides.

re: #176 Walter L. Newton

JohnJohnnie Walker, another leftist terrorist.

Hey leave my buddy out of this. :)

re: #188 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh for crying out loud... Do you want me to list all of the individual rightwing whacks out there too... I could start with Mussolini perhaps...

The bottom line is that these folks are part of an organized media campaign with much broader support than any of the lefties you have mentioned. The bottom line is that you are actually trying to defend them.

The Threat of Eco-Terrorism

Mystery as missing cargo ship Arctic Sea found without hijackers

The ship baffled maritime authorities when it disappeared shortly after being sailed through the English Channel last month, raising the prospect of the first act of piracy in European waters for hundreds of years.

Anatoly Serdyukov, the Russian defence minister, said that the 15 crew members were safe after they were taken on board a naval frigate "300 miles off the Cape Verde islands".

"They are being questioned to clarify all the circumstances of the disappearance. We will explain what happened with it, why communications with it were lost, why it changed its itinerary."

Since there were no hijackers aboard, what exactly was the crew doing sailing the Arctic Sea off the coast of West Africa and why didn't they turn on their identification beacon or otherwise communicate their location and situation to anyone?

/I'm betting that the whole "hijacking" scenario was a hoax, part of an elaborate scam for money, and the crew was in on it

re: #165 LudwigVanQuixote

Nels, I assure you that these fools are not part of a well regulated militia and that the Second Amendment does not apply.

You're a bit behind on your Constitutional law. The militia part of the 2nd Amendment is a prefatory clause.

District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. ___ 128 S.Ct. 2783 (2008)

re: #191 Erik The Red

Hey leave my buddy out of this. :)

Very funny. BTW, what guns did you have in S.A.?

re: #188 LudwigVanQuixote

Now the conservatives own Mussolini?

re: #179 Buster

These folks were there to stir turds. They certainly did that. Is it smart? I am of the opinion that it isn't. It marginalizes everyone who is there to disagree with the government. I was just making the point that their sideshow is not (as some are suggesting) a physical threat to the President.

And I agree... I think... with that last point. I'm sure the USSS was all over it. But it poisons our political culture all the same.

Next, the New Black Panther Party will start bringing firearms near Republican Party events. And I'd like to be in a position to complain about it, without looking like a frickkin' hypocrite.

re: #185 ShanghaiEd

Common thread: cutting brake lines, danger to human life.

Reliable Link?

Or is this just some lefty conjecture / wet dream?

Don't blame us!

re: #181 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. Better a proper custom trigger and a checkered slide release.

I'm still kind of jonesin' for front strap checkering on mine.

re: #164 experiencedtraveller

As long as it is HEAVY. For crying out loud how many times will our Treasury get this wrong?

The dollar coin must be HEAVY.

And not close in size to a quarter!

re: #196 DEZes

Now the conservatives own Mussolini?

Last time I checked he was right wing as opposed to Left. I do believe calling him a right wing nut case was apt.

It's a good stunt. Do it once and let the debate unfold. If it continues on more than this then I will oppose it. But for now, I don't think is does any harm to let the federal government know that the states have the right to permit their citizens to open-carry.

re: #194 Dar ul Harb

You're a bit behind on your Constitutional law. The militia part of the 2nd Amendment is a prefatory clause.

District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. ___ 128 S.Ct. 2783 (2008)

Just so. The people's right to bear arms is the critical point.

re: #190 thatemailname

Good to see that some people still have the courage to stand up for their rights, regardless of the condemnation they knew they would face from both sides.

That would be the dopes carrying their weapons at a Presidential political rally?

Define hero please.

Charles,

FYI, an ad popping up in the top Google ad banner is advertising a zero-point free energy scam called Magniwork. You might want to block that one if possible.

re: #156 LudwigVanQuixote

High emotion + politics + conspiracy nuts who think the government is coming to kill them anyway + loaded weapons...

What could possibly go wrong?

Are you insane?

Stop spamming the thread.

re: #197 Occasional Reader

Next, the New Black Panther Party will start bringing firearms near Republican Party events. And I'd like to be in a position to complain about it, without looking like a frickkin' hypocrite.

Oh- I expect if that happened, no one would notice the hypocrisy.

re: #202 LudwigVanQuixote

Last time I checked he was right wing as opposed to Left. I do believe calling him a right wing nut case was apt.

Every time I see this BS, I call it, the left used to be right, etc.
Move the goal posts to suit your need.

Wow. There really are people at LGF who don't see anything wrong with this.

Amazing.

re: #207 Alouette

Stop spamming the thread.

It was easier than retyping the same response three different ways to the exact same foolishness from three different posters.

re: #188 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh for crying out loud... Do you want me to list all of the individual rightwing whacks out there too... I could start with Mussolini perhaps...

The bottom line is that these folks are part of an organized media campaign with much broader support than any of the lefties you have mentioned. The bottom line is that you are actually trying to defend them.

Well, maybe you should, since you seem to think that this whole problem is a numbers issue, one side has more home-grown terrorist than the other.

My point being, they are all dangerous and they all need to be stopped. Your point, the right is more dangerous. When one fails to see the whole picture, one will find themselves out of the picture.

I prefer to have a healthy understanding and fear of all nutcases. I know what to watch out for, you believe what you want.

I've got a head start on you already. Looking forward to your list.

re: #197 Occasional Reader

Next, the New Black Panther Party will start bringing firearms near Republican Party events.

/well, they're already allowed to dress up in paramilitary uniforms and wield metal batons at polling places on election day, it's a short drive from there

re: #187 Bagua

These exhibitionists have brought themselves a lot of attention, if they are not squeaky clean they will find themselves losing their rights.

Well! What means shall be used to deprive these Citizens of their rights? Who are you to judge? What rights shall be deprived? For how long? What emoluments shall be considered for reinstation? Do tell.

re: #211 LudwigVanQuixote

It was easier than retyping the same response three different ways to the exact same foolishness from three different posters.

Easier is not better.

re: #165 LudwigVanQuixote

Nels, I assure you that these fools are not part of a well regulated militia and that the Second Amendment does not apply.

bzzzt. Wrong argument.

Yo, Neil Young?

re: #195 Dark_Falcon

Very funny. BTW, what guns did you have in S.A.?

Quick reply than sleep time. Between my wife and I; .38 Rossi small frame, CZ83, .22 Mag. American Arms, 1911 and a semi auto 12 gauge.

re: #202 LudwigVanQuixote

Last time I checked he was right wing as opposed to Left. I do believe calling him a right wing nut case was apt.

No, he was not. He was a socialist and his 'corporate state' grew out of that early socialism. Mussolini was a product of the left, and modern American conservatives have no connection to him.

re: #202 LudwigVanQuixote

Last time I checked he was right wing as opposed to Left. I do believe calling him a right wing nut case was apt.

Mussolini was a radical Marxian Socialist and later became known as a fascist, a natural progression for people of that persuasion.

re: #202 LudwigVanQuixote

Last time I checked he was right wing as opposed to Left. I do believe calling him a right wing nut case was apt.

Do a little homework on the concepts of right, left, fascist etc. of Europe. The terms do not mean what you think they mean. This is sort of European history 101.

re: #210 Charles

Wow. There really are people at LGF who don't see anything wrong with this.

Amazing.

They're either deluded or willfully ignorant.

re: #210 Charles

Wow. There really are people at LGF who don't see anything wrong with this.

Amazing.

Patriots all
/

re: #210 Charles

Wow. There really are people at LGF who don't see anything wrong with this.

Amazing.

That's not the LGF I knew. Sorry had to channel my inner FCBBHO.

re: #218 Erik The Red

Between my wife and I

ME!

/self-appointed defender of the English language

re: #194 Dar ul Harb

You're a bit behind on your Constitutional law. The militia part of the 2nd Amendment is a prefatory clause.

District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. ___ 128 S.Ct. 2783 (2008)

I don't buy that. It was clearly a case of judicial activists making up words that were not in the Constitution. What part of well regulated militia is not understood.

Semi Sarc. I know full well that the Law allows for individual gun ownership. I am only pointing this one out to the strict constitutionalists.

re: #213 Killian Bundy

/well, they're already allowed to dress up in paramilitary uniforms and wield metal batons at polling places on election day, it's a short drive from there

I was as outraged by that as you were. But note, those shitheels WERE run off by the police. (They should have been prosecuted too, of course, and weren't.)

re: #210 Charles

Didn't mean to disappoint...just being honest.

Napolitano spoke approvingly of the moron that brought a loaded weapon to the Obama speech... He called him a fing 'HERO"!!!

How is it the guy can seem so logical and level headed on Fox as a Constitutional counterweight libertarian counterweight and be such a firebrand idiot in real life...

And a lot of his youtube speech I actually liked... it's just that the stuff that's really underneath it all... anyone who is intelligent and knows Rockewell's and Paul's real history to refer them as fing Jeffersonian!!!

re: #218 Erik The Red

Quick reply than sleep time. Between my wife and I; .38 Rossi small frame, CZ83, .22 Mag. American Arms, 1911 and a semi auto 12 gauge.

Nice.

re: #225 Occasional Reader

ME!

/self-appointed defender of the English language

Not sure I'd be so quick to correct someone so well armed. ;)

You are most certain correct though...

re: #220 Mad Mullah

Mussolini was a radical Marxian Socialist and later became known as a fascist, a natural progression for people of that persuasion.

You are correct. He was an opportunist, an authoritarian, a tabula rasa who he himself, in his biography said anything could be written on, he could be anything that worked for him at the moment.

Ludwig is wrong.

re: #32 taxfreekiller

John F. Kerry and his crew voted to kill U.S. Senators in Oklahoma City
1968.

Huh?

re: #226 LudwigVanQuixote

I don't buy that. It was clearly a case of judicial activists making up words that were not in the Constitution. What part of well regulated militia is not understood.

Semi Sarc. I know full well that the Law allows for individual gun ownership. I am only pointing this one out to the strict constitutionalists.

Uh, no, that isn't "strict construction". Nice try, though. It's a prefatory clause. The Framers actually were pretty proficient with the English language; they knew what a dependent clause was, and chose not to use it. Funny, that.

re: #214 NelsFree

Well! What means shall be used to deprive these Citizens of their rights? Who are you to judge? What rights shall be deprived? For how long? What emoluments shall be considered for reinstation? Do tell.

If they break laws and are convicted then of course they will be deprived of rights enjoyed by law-abiding citizens. In most jurisdictions I'm familiar with felons are prohibited from having weapons permits or even owning weapons.

I am not the judge, I am talking about our legal system.

Next, the New Black Panther Party will start bringing firearms near Republican Party events. And I'd like to be in a position to complain about it, without looking like a frickkin' hypocrite.

Excuse me, but "next" is the wrong adjective. The New Black Panther Party has *already* threatened and intimidated voters with weapons. The corrupt government in Washington declined to pursue the case.

re: #197 Occasional Reader

And I agree... I think... with that last point. I'm sure the USSS was all over it. But it poisons our political culture all the same.

Next, the New Black Panther Party will start bringing firearms near Republican Party events. And I'd like to be in a position to complain about it, without looking like a frickkin' hypocrite.

I recall seeing video of two Black Panther Party members carrying nightsticks in front of a polling place on Election Day 2008. Although they were arrested, charges were dropped by the Obama-appointed Attorney General, Eric Holder.

re: #210 Charles

Please put me on the record for ' it's wrong '.
On so many levels... but, assuming a lack of evil intent on their part, mainly because it means they're seriously naive, which is another word in this context for ' unable to anticipate consequences '.

Even if the Secret Service says it's no problem and they've got things under control, there's the political provocation and stupid politics of such a protest to consider.

Damn, even at gun shows they usually make you "peace tie" the weapons you carry.

re: #232 Walter L. Newton

You are correct. He was an opportunist, an authoritarian, a tabula rasa who he himself, in his biography said anything could be written on, he could be anything that worked for him at the moment.

Ludwig is wrong.

Sounds like a certain Chicago politician we all know doesn't it?

re: #229 Mike Nargizian

Napolitano spoke approvingly of the moron that brought a loaded weapon to the Obama speech... He called him a fing 'HERO"!!!

How is it the guy can seem so logical and level headed on Fox as a Constitutional counterweight libertarian counterweight and be such a firebrand idiot in real life...

And a lot of his youtube speech I actually liked... it's just that the stuff that's really underneath it all... anyone who is intelligent and knows Rockewell's and Paul's real history to refer them as fing Jeffersonian!!!

Napolitano has gone completely around the bend. He has joined Alex Jones in the nut box.

I admit it: All this talk of shootin' irons is making me jones for some range time this weekend.

re: #237 NelsFree

I recall seeing video of two Black Panther Party members carrying nightsticks in front of a polling place on Election Day 2008. Although they were arrested, charges were dropped by the Obama-appointed Attorney General, Eric Holder.

"Tu quoque" is always a bad argument.

hrmm it must have been the guy in the tee shirt and ball cap I got the 4409 from or they edited that reference out of the forum. The ball cap guy can be seen with the gun toters in several of the photos, but it's not proof conclusive that these guys are all 4409'ers

re: #221 Walter L. Newton

Do a little homework on the concepts of right, left, fascist etc. of Europe. The terms do not mean what you think they mean. This is sort of European history 101.

I am so sorry, Mussolini was not a fascist? All of those fasces he had in his imagery were really hammers and sickles - oh yes and National Socialism was socialist and not fascist either... What dream world are you guys living in?

And yes I know the history and yes we can quibble pedantically all you want but you are saying truly fatuous stuff.

re: #243 Occasional Reader

"Tu quoque" is always a bad argument.

Must concur with that assessment.

re: #241 Dark_Falcon

Napolitano has gone completely around the bend. He has joined Alex Jones in the nut box.

I wonder how he would feel about allowing open carry into court rooms. After all, isn't it a 2nd Amendment right to allow guns to be carried anywhere?

re: #165 LudwigVanQuixote

I think carrying around a candidate or president at a rally is ill-advised and not the right thing to do, but the well regulated militia thing has no application to whether or not an individual citizen can carry a gun. It was a commentary, not a commandment.

re: #203 ratherdashing

It's a good stunt. Do it once and let the debate unfold. If it continues on more than this then I will oppose it. But for now, I don't think is does any harm to let the federal government know that the states have the right to permit their citizens to open-carry.

Better yet, do it not at all. What debate is this causing to unfold?

People open carry in open carry states all the time. The federal government is aware that this is legal. They don't need Alex Jones' followers to tell them that.

re: #245 LudwigVanQuixote

I am so sorry, Mussolini was not a fascist? All of those fasces he had in his imagery were really hammers and sickles - oh yes and National Socialism was socialist and not fascist either... What dream world are you guys living in?

And yes I know the history and yes we can quibble pedantically all you want but you are saying truly fatuous stuff.

Fascism was a movement that came out of the left. It shares no ideological roots with modern conservatism. But it does have things in common with modern liberalism.

re: #231 Airborn Swine

Not sure I'd be so quick to correct someone so well armed. ;)

You are most certain correct though...

I'm 18 posts behind so, I trust that OR has given you a good schooling.

re: #241 Dark_Falcon

Hilarious if he's related to Janet.

re: #248 tradewind

I think carrying around a candidate or president at a rally is ill-advised and not the right thing to do, but the well regulated militia thing has no application to whether or not an individual citizen can carry a gun. It was a commentary, not a commandment.

Quite Concur.

re: #232 Walter L. Newton

You are correct. He was an opportunist, an authoritarian, a tabula rasa who he himself, in his biography said anything could be written on, he could be anything that worked for him at the moment.

Ludwig is wrong.

Wrong that Mussolini was a fascist? You have got to be kidding me! Was Hitler also not a fascist? If neither of them were, who were the fascists we were fighting in the Second World War? Have I just gone through the looking glass?

And you guys are saying that I re-wrote history now?

Is this some sort of very poor joke in very poor taste?

re: #214 NelsFree

Well! What means shall be used to deprive these Citizens of their rights? Who are you to judge? What rights shall be deprived? For how long? What emoluments shall be considered for reinstation? Do tell.

emolument (noun): a salary, fee, or profit from employment or office.

reinstation: not a word

re: #235 Bagua

If they break laws and are convicted then of course they will be deprived of rights enjoyed by law-abiding citizens. In most jurisdictions I'm familiar with felons are prohibited from having weapons permits or even owning weapons.

I am not the judge, I am talking about our legal system.

So, if those weapon-carrying persons violated any laws by their actions, they should be arrested and prosecuted. I'm down in agreement with that. I shall defend their Constitutional right to bear arms within the law.

re: #245 LudwigVanQuixote

I am so sorry, Mussolini was not a fascist? All of those fasces he had in his imagery were really hammers and sickles - oh yes and National Socialism was socialist and not fascist either... What dream world are you guys living in?

And yes I know the history and yes we can quibble pedantically all you want but you are saying truly fatuous stuff.

"An important factor in fascism gaining support in its earliest stages was the fact that claimed to oppose discrimination based on social class and was strongly opposed to all forms of class war.[16] Fascism instead supported nationalist sentiments such as a strong unity, regardless of class, in the hopes of raising Italy up to the levels of its great Roman past. The ideological basis for fascism came from a number of sources. Mussolini utilized works of Plato, Georges Sorel, Nietzsche, and the socialist and economic ideas of Vilfredo Pareto, to create fascism."

He was a socialist who took what he wanted from the left to create fascism.