The Freaks Behind the Arizona Gun Stunt

US News • Views: 4,852

The people who showed up at the Obama rally in Arizona yesterday with semi-automatic rifles are part of a hate group called “4409,” a bugeyed insane gang of paleo-libertarian Ron Paul supporters who believe in every conspiracy theory under the sun. They’re 9/11 Truthers, moon landing hoaxers, anti-vaccination kooks, Alex Jones fans — name a conspiracy theory, they believe it.

Their website contains advertisements for white supremacist militias and Rand Paul (son of Ron Paul). I won’t link directly to these kinds of extremist hate sites, but here’s Google’s cache of the page where they posted video of their jackass stunt: 4409 — Brother carries AR-15 Rifle at Obamabot Rally.

Notice in the video clip of their headquarters (probably somebody’s garage), the big sign on the wall that says “Vaccines = Poison.”

Youtube Video

(Hat tip: Thanos.)

Jump to bottom

731 comments
1 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:32:35am

THESE ARE NUTS

HEAVE HELP US

2 Dianna  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:32:40am

So they're completely nuts, single-issue frothing weirdos, who probably enjoy congress with their guns a little more than is really healthy?

3 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:32:41am
They’re 9/11 Truthers, moon landing hoaxers, anti-vaccination kooks, Alex Jones fans — name a conspiracy theory, they believe it.

Such great allies some folks want to embrace. Enjoy the fleas.

4 saberry0530  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:32:50am

WOW... there's crazy and then there's F'in crazy

5 Dianna  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:33:16am

re: #3 Sharmuta

Such great allies some folks want to embrace. Enjoy the fleas.

Who suggested these nuts as allies?

6 JHW  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:33:28am

I'm beginning to wonder if any of the Paulians are sane.

7 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:33:30am

Question #1: What on earth does 4409 mean?

Question #2: does that artwork at the beginning look like a cross between Soviet and Nazi propaganda to anyone else?

8 filetandrelease  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:33:54am

Republicans, one step forward, two steps backward.

9 Gus  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:33:58am

Check out the sign in background during the opening of the video:

Vaccines = Poison

Also, one of the people in that group says "are you going to water the tree of liberty" at 0:27.

Confirmed, these people are psychos.

10 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:34:01am
11 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:34:16am

re: #4 saberry0530

WOW... there's crazy and then there's F'in crazy

...and then there's Heavily Armed and F'in Crazy. These people are paranoid loons. They are very dangerous.

12 Dianna  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:34:46am

re: #5 Dianna

Who suggested these nuts as allies?

Come to think of it, these guys probably can't think sanely long enough to be anyone's allies. They probably periodically formally excommunicate each other.

13 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:35:19am

I don't get the AK-47. Seems if they wanted to appear as true Americans they'd carry something else.

Me, I carry MasterCard.

14 Dianna  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:35:35am

re: #7 EmmmieG

Question #1: What on earth does 4409 mean?

Question #2: does that artwork at the beginning look like a cross between Soviet and Nazi propaganda to anyone else?

1: No clue.

2: It does look quite socialist realist.

15 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:35:46am
16 Russkilitlover  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:35:55am

re: #8 filetandrelease

Republicans, one step forward, two steps backward.

I can't see the video, are they Republicans?

17 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:36:01am

re: #5 Dianna

Who suggested these nuts as allies?

Quite a few people have been defending and making excuses for them in the previous thread.

18 mikeymom  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:36:06am

i would not want to be in the same room with any of these people-seriously!

19 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:36:19am

There are laws on the books regarding the mentally ill owing firearms.

20 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:36:37am

These people want revolution. This isn't empty rhetoric, they WANT civil war. These are highly dangerous people, and those making excuses for them should think twice about whose side these people are really on.

21 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:37:05am

re: #9 Gus 802

Check out the sign in background during the opening of the video:

Vaccines = Poison

Also, one of the people in that group says "are you going to water the tree of liberty" at 0:27.

Confirmed, these people are psychos.

Must concur if that's being said. I had thought that they might be useful for something, a perpetual folly of mine. It is hard for me accept that no group of Paulians is ever politically useful. They are nuts who make everyone around them look crazy.

22 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:37:06am

re: #5 Dianna

Who suggested these nuts as allies?

You should read the previous AZ Gun Stunt thread.

23 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:37:28am

re: #20 Sharmuta

These people want revolution. This isn't empty rhetoric, they WANT civil war. These are highly dangerous people, and those making excuses for them should think twice about whose side these people are really on.

I'm thinking "in-patient" treatment.

24 Dianna  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:37:34am

re: #17 Charles

Quite a few people have been defending and making excuses for them in the previous thread.

Oh. I missed that one. I was cleaning my guns with my Male.

/

25 debutaunt  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:38:21am

re: #24 Dianna

At this hour!

26 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:38:31am

re: #13 ggt

I don't get the AK-47. Seems if they wanted to appear as true Americans they'd carry something else.

Me, I carry MasterCard.

AK knockoffs are cheap. Springfields cost a couple/

27 jill e  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:38:33am

Do you realize the amount of energy it takes to be this obsessively crazy?

28 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:38:46am

Seriously, why do the whacko's all carry AK-47s? Our troops don't carry them. Our enemies do.

29 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:39:00am

re: #26 jcm

AK knockoffs are cheap. Springfields cost a couple/

ah!

30 Dianna  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:39:28am

re: #22 Sharmuta

You should read the previous AZ Gun Stunt thread.

I have to work; I'm not sure how I'd keep up with the current thread, work and sing along with Gillian Welch all at the same time. I'll take Charles' word for it, and sigh.

The fact is, we're very, very lucky that there aren't that many people like this.

31 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:39:41am

re: #25 debutaunt

At this hour!

I think she was creatively saying that she was cleaning "his" gun.

:0

32 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:39:51am

re: #13 ggt

I don't get the AK-47. Seems if they wanted to appear as true Americans they'd carry something else.

Me, I carry MasterCard.

That is an AR-15, not an AK-47. Its different magazine, collapsible stock and lack of a visible gas tube are key recognition features.

33 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:39:59am
34 Dianna  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:40:06am

re: #25 debutaunt

At this hour!

It was last night!

Cleaning guns together is a very intimate activity.

/deadpan.

35 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:40:16am

From this group's site it's only one click to some very extreme militia sites, where they have PDF's on explosives, tactics etc. If it were a Jihadi site, everyone would be calling for it's closure. Back in '08 the same site was very anti-Bush, and Anti-McCain. They suspect Bob Barr the libertarian candidate of being part of the New world Order and think Michelle Bachman is not conservative enough and a traitor. You can find the usual Bilderberger strains, as well as fluoride conspiracies, and also some cross-pollinization between these guys and UFPJ back when they were anti Bush. If you hit the extremist site you will also see some cross atlantic traffic, like from North Rhein Westphalia etc.

Teh crazy is strong with these ones.

36 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:40:19am

These folks are fucking nuts, and cannot be defended in any way, shape, or form. However, I am sure some will make an attempt to defend their actions (like the Duecers).

37 harrylook  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:40:20am

Someone should ask them what it feels like to be in the crosshairs of a secret service sniper holding a high-powered rifle. These do know that's what's going on, right?

(though, apparently, the secret service isn't too worried about these guys). Go figure.

38 gonecamping  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:40:36am

I'm not going to visit the website, but wonder if they think the world is flat. I've seen wackos believe in one conspiracy theory or another...but never seen a group that embraced such a variety of insanity.

39 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:40:47am

Discussed this with Mr. EmmmieG last night. He commented that he carries a gun when he thinks he might need it, and he really can't see why he would need one at a presidential event.

As he said, he's not in danger, although his wallet might be.

40 pat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:41:06am

This idiot could have got someone killed.

41 BlackFedora  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:41:12am

"a bugeyed insane gang of paleo-libertarian Ron Paul supporters who believe in every conspiracy theory under the sun."

Wow. That's one helluva vivid description.

42 JHW  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:41:30am

re: #28 ggt

I think they're trying to cultivate a Rambo image, and US issue type weapons don't carry the cachet to them that the well known guerrilla AK does. Heroes in their own minds saving the nation from tyranny.

43 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:41:31am

Also for the record: They are not Republicans, but they are extreme right wing.

44 KansasMom  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:41:32am

I couldn't view the video at work...what in the world were they trying to prove by this stunt?
And what does 4409 mean?

/do I really want to know?

45 brent  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:41:41am

I started googlin' 4409 - it's a bill, HR 4409

To promote the national security and stability of the United States economy by reducing the dependence of the United States on foreign oil through the use of alternative fuels and new vehicle technologies, and for other purposes.

46 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:41:44am

re: #35 Thanos

From this group's site it's only one click to some very extreme militia sites, where they have PDF's on explosives, tactics etc. If it were a Jihadi site, everyone would be calling for it's closure. Back in '08 the same site was very anti-Bush, and Anti-McCain. They suspect Bob Barr the libertarian candidate of being part of the New world Order and think Michelle Bachman is not conservative enough and a traitor. You can find the usual Bilderberger strains, as well as fluoride conspiracies, and also some cross-pollinization between these guys and UFPJ back when they were anti Bush. If you hit the extremist site you will also see some cross atlantic traffic, like from North Rhein Westphalia etc.

Teh crazy is strong with these ones.

So they basically think everyone is polluting their precious bodily fluids?
I guess they've been drinking the grain alcohol made in a still with lead solder, and skipping the rainwater because of chemtrails.

47 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:41:46am
48 Athos  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:41:54am

re: #36 Honorary Yooper

These folks are fucking nuts, and cannot be defended in any way, shape, or form.

Concur completely.

49 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:42:12am

This guy is armed all the time, and put his gun on the sink when he showers.


I wonder what it's like to live in your own private horror show, all the time.

50 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:42:29am

re: #38 gonecamping

I'm not going to visit the website, but wonder if they think the world is flat. I've seen wackos believe in one conspiracy theory or another...but never seen a group that embraced such a variety of insanity.

No, for that kind of crazy you have to go to Republican politicians in Texas.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

51 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:42:31am

re: #41 BlackFedora

"a bugeyed insane gang of paleo-libertarian Ron Paul supporters who believe in every conspiracy theory under the sun."

Wow. That's one helluva vivid description.

It also makes a hell of a rotating title. :-)

Great wordsmithing, Charles!

52 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:42:37am

You're going to love my nuts! /Vince

Nuts don't begin to cover the crazy at that site, and the related postings and videos. I don't think there's a conspiracy out there that these folks haven't figured out a way to embrace.

53 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:42:54am

re: #44 KansasMom

I couldn't view the video at work...what in the world were they trying to prove by this stunt?
And what does 4409 mean?

/do I really want to know?

They couldn't find anyone in the group that could spell FORMULA

It was supposed to be FORMULA 409,

They want to CLEAN up !!

///

54 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:43:12am

Can't handle reality!

I have a conspiracy for you! No more self determination, no more responsibility, no more accountability. Pick up a conspiracy today, life is much easier! Lost your job? A conspiracy! Neighbors look at you funny? A conspiracy!

Drop all your cares and worries!
Pick up a conspiracy instead.

Special one time internet only offer!
Three conspiracies for the LOW! LOW! LOW! Price of $19.95.

Just this once, we'll give you the Nirth Certifikate, 9/11 Troof, and especial the massive Vax conspiracy all for $19.95.

Leave you worries behind!
Blame the conspiracy!

55 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:43:18am

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

That is an AR-15, not an AK-47. Its different magazine, collapsible stock and lack of a visible gas tube are key recognition features.

Now, I am really confused.

56 mpoulos42  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:43:22am

"We will forcefully resist people imposing their will on us through the strength of the majority with a vote." -- Anti-democratic much? I wonder what he means by "forcefully resist".
Oh wait, no I don't.

57 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:44:02am

Someone might want to ping AP on this - yesterday he was speculating that they were Obama supporters.

58 filetandrelease  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:44:11am

re: #16 Russkilitlover

I can't see the video, are they Republicans?

It is an assumption on my part.

59 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:44:14am

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

That is an AR-15, not an AK-47. Its different magazine, collapsible stock and lack of a visible gas tube are key recognition features.

Didn't watch the video to see.
Bushmaster AR-15 are cheap too.

60 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:44:18am

REAL AMERICAN FASCISM WILL LOOK DIFFERENT FROM GERMAN, ITALIAN OR JAPANES FASCISM, this looks to be the group were it might come from.

61 Baier  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:44:24am

The media does such a good job portraying these groups as part of the mainstream right wing that we need to be especially upfront in denouncing this nonsense. Same with Glenn Beck. These idiots will become synonymous with conservative if the MSM and left have anything to say about it.

62 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:45:03am

re: #10 taxfreekiller

Robert Novak

Fine Fellow.
RIP

Robert Novak had very Pat Buchanan-like views of Israel.

63 Baier  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:45:10am

re: #43 Thanos

Also for the record: They are not Republicans, but they are extreme right wing.

That's not what the MSM will say.

64 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:45:16am

re: #39 EmmmieG

Discussed this with Mr. EmmmieG last night. He commented that he carries a gun when he thinks he might need it, and he really can't see why he would need one at a presidential event.

As he said, he's not in danger, although his wallet might be.

I'm thinking that there is more than enough security at those events.

65 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:45:33am

re: #54 jcm

Can't handle reality!

I have a conspiracy for you! No more self determination, no more responsibility, no more accountability. Pick up a conspiracy today, life is much easier! Lost your job? A conspiracy! Neighbors look at you funny? A conspiracy!

Drop all your cares and worries!
Pick up a conspiracy instead.

Special one time internet only offer!
Three conspiracies for the LOW! LOW! LOW! Price of $19.95.

Just this once, we'll give you the Nirth Certifikate, 9/11 Troof, and especial the massive Vax conspiracy all for $19.95.

Leave you worries behind!
Blame the conspiracy!

But wait ! Act Now and get a free copy of WE NEVER WENT THERE.

66 Ben Hur  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:45:45am

Every conspiracey theory under the sun?

See? Don't you get it? It's so deep that you actually think the Earth is under the Sun, when, in reality it's the Sun under the Earth!

(I guess these guys aren't just your run of the mill 2nd Ammend folks yada yada yada, like I wrote was possible yesterday)

Who knew the Coast to Coast crowd was so well armed?

67 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:45:48am

re: #52 lawhawk

You're going to love my nuts! /Vince

Nuts don't begin to cover the crazy at that site, and the related postings and videos. I don't think there's a conspiracy out there that these folks haven't figured out a way to embrace.

This started with the Howard Ruff etc. survivalist movement. It's a big business. You sell guns, natural foods, homeopathic crap & pimp gold. Some are in it for the money, and some are way over the edge. I think Alex Jones laughs all the way to the bank.

68 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:45:49am

re: #55 ggt

Now, I am really confused.

AK-47

AR-15

69 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:45:52am

re: #60 yochanan

REAL AMERICAN FASCISM WILL LOOK DIFFERENT FROM GERMAN, ITALIAN OR JAPANES FASCISM, this looks to be the group were it might come from.

They're definately a strong candidate, if anything else.

70 avanti  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:46:12am

re: #61 Baier

The media does such a good job portraying these groups as part of the mainstream right wing that we need to be especially upfront in denouncing this nonsense. Same with Glenn Beck. These idiots will become synonymous with conservative if the MSM and left have anything to say about it.

Maybe Glenn Beck will condemn the nuts this afternoon./

71 quickjustice  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:46:36am

"4409"? What's that? Ron Paul's lucky lottery number?

72 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:46:55am

These morons will go a long way to destroying any gains the sane GOP is making these days. The media is all too happy to lump them with the average conservative.

73 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:47:08am

re: #66 Ben Hur

True, you gotta wonder how many of these folks were part of the usenet group alt.fan.art-bell.

74 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:47:27am

4409 does seem to indicate H.R. 4409, Fuel Choices for American Security Act of 2005, the conspiracy crazy dives into the sheer lunacy category.

You want proof that 9/11 was a conspiracy? How about the Bee Gees admitting 9/11 was an inside job. (Here's the google search with that tidbit).

75 Ben Hur  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:47:33am

Mental Illness is a serious issue.

76 Gus  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:47:44am

Here's an associated web site with 4409:

[Link: donate2camerafraud.com...]

In the third video you can see them harassing some cops. The video ends with the sound effect of a shot gun being cocked and fading out with "LOL Change" with an Obama logo as the shot gun is fired.

The first video starts with the collapse of Building 7 on 9/11.

77 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:48:05am

re: #71 quickjustice

"4409"? What's that? Ron Paul's lucky lottery number?

Take the inverse to obtain IQ...

78 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:48:28am

re: #74 lawhawk

4409 does seem to indicate H.R. 4409, Fuel Choices for American Security Act of 2005, the conspiracy crazy dives into the sheer lunacy category.

You want proof that 9/11 was a conspiracy? How about the Bee Gees admitting 9/11 was an inside job. (Here's the google search with that tidbit).

That Google search is a veritable cornicopia of crazy.

79 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:48:29am

re: #68 jcm

AK-47

AR-15

Thank you. Now, why are are they carrying that particular firearm? as oppossed to one that our troops carry?

80 BlueCanuck  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:48:41am

re: #34 Dianna

It was last night!

Cleaning guns together is a very intimate activity.

/deadpan.

Restraint, restraint. I will show a little restraint...

81 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:49:01am

re: #55 ggt

Now, I am really confused.

Let me explain: The rifle being carried is a semi-auto variation of an M-16. Its magazine is differently shaped than that of an AK and most AKs have fixed or folding stocks rather than the collapsible stock this rifle has. The key recognition feature however, is the gas tube. The AK-47's gas tube is above the barrel and visible. The AR-15's gas tube is concealed within the handguard fitted over the barrel.

82 doubter4444  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:49:14am

These people are going to kill some one, and the apologists will wring their hands and claim it's not their fault, but that they were only approving people expressing their second amendment rights, and not egging them on.
It's disgraceful behavior.
It's been said here before: Bringing a loaded assault rifle to a political event where the President of the United States is present is wrong.
It's not a "second amendment" expression.
It's confrontation.
It's a spit at the flag, and an offense to the rule of law and to democracy.

This is not legitimate behavior, simply look what they are saying:
"We will forcefully resist people imposing their will on us through the strength of the majority with a vote."
I don't take that as an appeal to go to the voting booth. I take it as a statement that the voting booth does not count.

To turn a blind eye to it is, in my estimation, is paramount to condoning it.

83 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:49:32am

re: #62 Alouette

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

gov'r Huckabee clearly isn't in the buchanan/novack mold i think he is a bit to populist for me but i think he really does support Israel mostly from his Christian faith. not a lot of Jewish vote in ark.

84 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:50:08am

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

Let me explain: The rifle being carried is a semi-auto variation of an M-16. Its magazine is differently shaped than that of an AK and most AKs have fixed or folding stocks rather than the collapsible stock this rifle has. The key recognition feature however, is the gas tube. The AK-47's gas tube is above the barrel and visible. The AR-15's gas tube is concealed within the handguard fitted over the barrel.

You really think I'm going to remember all this?

85 quickjustice  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:50:44am

re: #74 lawhawk

Good catch. These guys give looney-tunes a bad name!

86 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:51:04am

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

Let me explain: The rifle being carried is a semi-auto variation of an M-16. Its magazine is differently shaped than that of an AK and most AKs have fixed or folding stocks rather than the collapsible stock this rifle has. The key recognition feature however, is the gas tube. The AK-47's gas tube is above the barrel and visible. The AR-15's gas tube is concealed within the handguard fitted over the barrel.

In the nutball forums someone ID'ed the gun he was carrying as a "Bushmaster Carbon 15"

[Link: images.google.com...]

87 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:51:18am

Partial Repost:

This is a well organized and spreading phenomena.

Fox, Republican pundits and right wing talking heads are doing their level best to perpetuate, justify and incite more of this.

It is not just a matter of the MSM "covering up" lefties in the past. What makes this different is that you have people like Palin telling you that the government wants to kill you. What makes this different is not just that Fox covers these creeps, but that it gives them air time to speak their views as if they were reasonable people. What makes this different is the entire right wing talk culture doing it's best to ferment even more dissent and honestly cheering this on.

Let's be really clear about that.

The other thing that makes this very very different, is that the average Dem always saw the sorts of freaks in SF that Zombie points out as just that - freaks. I see huge amounts of evidence from right wing talking heads, and on this board even that somehow these right wing nuts are OK.

88 quickjustice  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:51:37am

re: #75 Ben Hur

I agree, and so does my invisible friend! ;-)

89 SalsaNChips  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:51:40am

They wanted to do something outlandish to garner attention for their nutty opinions and they got it.

Makes the rest of us responsible, law-abiding gun owners look bad. I don't care if it's legal -- it's in bad taste and was just done to make a display for the media.

Real gun owners don't feel the need to parade around, brandishing weapons like a bunch of jackasses.

FYI, I am a Texas CHL, active member of the NRA, GOA, TSRA and GCA.

90 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:51:53am

re: #83 yochanan

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

gov'r Huckabee clearly isn't in the buchanan/novack mold i think he is a bit to populist for me but i think he really does support Israel mostly from his Christian faith. not a lot of Jewish vote in ark.

Robert Novak was born Jewish, converted to Catholic church.

91 Ben Hur  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:51:58am

These people didn't just pop up in a puff of smoke.

They've been around for a long time.

92 realwest  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:52:03am

re: #47 taxfreekiller
Hey TFK - quick hitter here - could y'all send me an e-mail; I seem to have misplaced yours!

93 harrylook  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:52:13am

"morpheus" - god of sleep. appropriate. lol.

94 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:52:21am

re: #82 doubter4444

These people are going to kill some one, and the apologists will wring their hands and claim it's not their fault, but that they were only approving people expressing their second amendment rights, and not egging them on.
It's disgraceful behavior.
It's been said here before: Bringing a loaded assault rifle to a political event where the President of the United States is present is wrong.
It's not a "second amendment" expression.
It's confrontation.
It's a spit at the flag, and an offense to the rule of law and to democracy.

This is not legitimate behavior, simply look what they are saying:
"We will forcefully resist people imposing their will on us through the strength of the majority with a vote."
I don't take that as an appeal to go to the voting booth. I take it as a statement that the voting booth does not count.

To turn a blind eye to it is, in my estimation, is paramount to condoning it.

Didn't the Founders design our form of government specifically to circumvent the "tyranny of the majority"? I think, perhaps, these people are confused. It can be argued that what we have now is a "tyranny of the minority".

95 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:52:38am

re: #71 quickjustice

"4409"? What's that? Ron Paul's lucky lottery number?

4409 the identity of a secret agent...
Has agent 4409 inspected your trash?

Youtube Video

/not kidding

96 J.S.  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:53:01am

re: #62 Alouette

wiki also notes that Robert Novak was "pro-Palestinian." (that was made very clear if anyone read his various columns).

97 Baier  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:53:02am

re: #75 Ben Hur

Mental Illness is a serious issue.

True, and the one upside to Obamacare, if it passes, is that his supporters will finally be able to get help they need.

98 Coracle  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:53:28am

re: #61 Baier

The media does such a good job portraying these groups as part of the mainstream right wing that we need to be especially upfront in denouncing this nonsense. Same with Glenn Beck. These idiots will become synonymous with conservative if the MSM and left have anything to say about it.

Or, perhaps the right.
Your text to link...
Congressman Gingrey (GA) in answer to whether people should come armed to public meetings: "I should think they should exercise their rights under the second amendment."

99 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:53:34am
100 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:53:54am

re: #90 Alouette

Robert Novak was born Jewish, converted to Catholic church.

I am so glad that we don't have to claim that asshat anymore. Well halachicly we do, but at least not in the public eye.

101 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:54:35am

There are the anger management ads again...

102 Baier  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:54:46am

re: #98 Coracle

Or, perhaps the right.
Your text to link...
Congressman Gingrey (GA) in answer to whether people should come armed to public meetings: "I should think they should exercise their rights under the second amendment."

That's too bad.

103 Athos  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:54:52am

re: #87 LudwigVanQuixote

I see huge amounts of evidence from right wing talking heads, and on this board even that somehow these right wing nuts are OK.

Just curious as to which talking heads think these nimrods are OK...

104 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:55:09am

When I think of "4409", all I can think or is a old steam locomotive. Maybe one of them is a trainspotter?

Anyway, lock these kooks up.

105 Coracle  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:55:13am

re: #101 Charles

There are the anger management ads again...

I HATE those.
/

106 Ben Hur  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:55:13am

Funny.

I'm seeing ads for firearms.

107 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:55:17am

saying gov't healt care will have a problem with rationing and people will die because of it isn't the same thing as what these creeps as saying.

frankly if the cap and tax bill becomes law poor old people will not be able to afford air conditioning in many places and they will die from that too.

you can state both things with out going off the wall.

108 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:55:26am

re: #84 ggt

You really think I'm going to remember all this?

All you need to remember is to look for the gas tube. If the rifle has a visible gas tube above the barrel, it is more likely to be an AK. I think you got confused because rifle lacks a carry handle, which many AR-15s do not have these days.

109 Syrah  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:55:33am

Scratch a freak and find a paul-bot.

110 CommonCents  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:55:46am

re: #8 filetandrelease

Republicans, one step forward, two steps backward.

This is not representative of the Republican party. I'll keep the rest of my response to myself so I'm not banned.

111 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:55:50am

re: #79 ggt

Thank you. Now, why are are they carrying that particular firearm? as oppossed to one that our troops carry?

AR-15 is the civilian, semi-auto version variant of the M-16 used by the armed forces. There is a whole family in the AR series.

Because of the high volume they are quite cheap.

112 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:55:51am

re: #101 Charles

There are the anger management ads again...

Makes me just wanna kick my computer...

113 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:56:14am

re: #90 Alouette

so novack was a right wing version of noam chomsky?

114 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:56:25am
115 realwest  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:56:26am

re: #43 Thanos

Also for the record: They are not Republicans, but they are extreme right wing.


I updinged you for that, but as others have pointed out they were virulent anti-Bush, anti-McCain last year. I think it's more accurate to say:
"Also for the record: they are not Republicans, but they are extreme."

116 J.S.  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:56:40am

re: #106 Ben Hur

I'm seeing "Domestic Violence Prevention" and "Violence Problem?"

117 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:56:46am

re: #101 Charles

There are the anger management ads again...

I'll need those if I see another "Mom's White Teeth Secret" ad.

118 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:57:16am

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

All you need to remember is to look for the gas tube. If the rifle has a visible gas tube above the barrel, it is more likely to be an AK. I think you got confused because rifle lacks a carry handle, which many AR-15s do not have these days.

You are probably right.

119 Ben Hur  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:57:29am

It's a marketting conspiracy!

120 Occasional Reader  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:57:31am

re: #79 ggt

Thank you. Now, why are are they carrying that particular firearm? as oppossed to one that our troops carry?

That *is* the (civilian-legal) version of the rifle our troops carry.

(Dude... you need to burnish your gun nut credentials a little!)

121 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:57:34am

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

Let me explain: The rifle being carried is a semi-auto variation of an M-16. Its magazine is differently shaped than that of an AK and most AKs have fixed or folding stocks rather than the collapsible stock this rifle has. The key recognition feature however, is the gas tube. The AK-47's gas tube is above the barrel and visible. The AR-15's gas tube is concealed within the handguard fitted over the barrel.

Let me explain... That rifle fires nato rounds that will penetrate all but really good body armor and it is absolutely not a toy. It is being used as a toy by an asshat who has no business owning a weapon.

There is no excuse whatsoever for this.

I'm going to say something wild here. These things are for grown-ups and children do not have the right to use grown-up things that are dangerous.

122 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:57:50am

re: #115 realwest

I updinged you for that, but as others have pointed out they were virulent anti-Bush, anti-McCain last year. I think it's more accurate to say:
"Also for the record: they are not Republicans, but they are extreme."

Nope, they are right wing. There's not a doubt unless you want to call Ron Paul left wing.

123 CommonCents  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:57:51am

re: #100 LudwigVanQuixote

I am so glad that we don't have to claim that asshat anymore. Well halachicly we do, but at least not in the public eye.

Nice respect for the deceased.
/no sarc

124 Ben Hur  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:57:52am

And a spelling conspiracy!

125 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:58:28am

re: #111 jcm

AR-15 is the civilian, semi-auto version variant of the M-16 used by the armed forces. There is a whole family in the AR series.

Because of the high volume they are quite cheap.

ah, I get it. I guess I've never seen the AR-15--only the M1.

126 Occasional Reader  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:58:31am

So did "Chris", the AR-15 toter, get the memo on the white supremacist links?

How do you think that'll work out for ya, Chris?

127 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:58:58am

The guy in the anger management ad looks like he's faking that he's not angry.

128 Occasional Reader  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:59:13am

re: #125 ggt

ah, I get it. I guess I've never seen the AR-15--only the M1.

And pirates of course carry the YAR-15.

/

129 Ben Hur  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:59:13am

I don't know what it's called.

I only know the sound it makes when it takes a life.

130 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:59:33am

re: #126 Occasional Reader

or the chinese guy he was talking too.

131 Kragar  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:59:34am

re: #124 Ben Hur

And a spelling conspiracy!

Aaron or Tori?

132 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:59:41am

re: #120 Occasional Reader

That *is* the (civilian-legal) version of the rifle our troops carry.

(Dude... you need to burnish your gun nut credentials a little!)

I'm the scholarly version of a gun-nut. Supreme court cases, Jim Crow Laws etc. I read, not shoot.

133 Athos  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 9:59:43am

re: #110 CommonCents

This is not representative of the Republican party. I'll keep the rest of my response to myself so I'm not banned.

Why do so many link libretarians with Republican's?

Just goes to show that the GOP needs to do a far better job policing our own...and its past time to re-evict the birchers and libretarians from the GOP.

134 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:00:07am

re: #103 Athos

Just curious as to which talking heads think these nimrods are OK...

Every single one who rather than condemning this behavior stringently goes on to equivocate about the second amendment and then reissue these freaks's talking points and incite them even further. That would be Palin, Rush, Hannity, Beck, and Matthews to name a few.

135 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:00:33am

re: #126 Occasional Reader

So did "Chris", the AR-15 toter, get the memo on the white supremacist links?

How do you think that'll work out for ya, Chris?

It's the cognitive dissonance blinders of New World Order paranoia.

136 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:01:15am

There's an overwhelming amount of support for these extremists in the comments at Hot Air, by the way.

137 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:01:20am

re: #133 Athos


Just goes to show that the GOP needs to do a far better job policing our own...and its past time to re-evict the birchers and libretarians from the GOP.


Good luck with that. I don't think enough people are interested in cleaning house. Glenn Beck's ratings are testimony that this sort of insanity is very popular.

138 Dianna  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:01:29am

re: #133 Athos

libretarians

People who collect librettos?

139 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:01:40am

re: #126 Occasional Reader

So did "Chris", the AR-15 toter, get the memo on the white supremacist links?

How do you think that'll work out for ya, Chris?

You are talking about a human being who is armed, in his own house, while doing everything up to showering.

The man thinks he's going to be attacked while cooking his eggs. I wouldn't try reasonable discourse.

140 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:02:01am

Now that I have the "type" of firearm figured out, I still don't get why?

Then again, I'm not psychotic.

141 Salamantis  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:02:18am

re: #62 Alouette

Robert Novak had very Pat Buchanan-like views of Israel.

The two of them used to appear regularly together on TV political talk shows. The McLaughlin Report, for one.

142 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:02:25am

re: #136 Charles

There's an overwhelming amount of support for these extremists in the comments at Hot Air, by the way.

There's a huge amount of support here. The right is eating itself.

143 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:02:30am

re: #104 Ward Cleaver

When I think of "4409", all I can think or is a old steam locomotive. Maybe one of them is a trainspotter?

Anyway, lock these kooks up.

Ah yes, here we go.

And here's a survivor (4449). The famous Southern Pacific "Daylight". I got to tour it, 20+ years ago, when it came through Dallas on a tour. A beautiful locomotive.

144 Athos  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:02:32am

re: #136 Charles

must be the paulbots...

145 CommonCents  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:02:39am

re: #133 Athos

Why do so many link libretarians with Republican's?

Just goes to show that the GOP needs to do a far better job policing our own...and its past time to re-evict the birchers and libretarians from the GOP.

I heard that. Part of the problem is guys like McConnell and Boehner don't do enough in the branding department. I see their mugs maybe once every other week. Meanwhile, Pelosi, Frank, Schumer are on EVERY SINGLE DAY. It was unbalanced when Republicans were in the majority too.

146 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:02:50am

This is what happens to people when they live too far outside the reach of the soothing chemtrails that keep the rest of us passive and reasonable.

147 Occasional Reader  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:02:51am

re: #87 LudwigVanQuixote

The other thing that makes this very very different, is that the average Dem always saw the sorts of freaks in SF that Zombie points out as just that - freaks.

Uh, sorry, won't fly. Complete nutcase Cindy Sheehan was lionized by the "mainstream" left, even as her rants sounded ever-more indistinguishable from Stormfront talking points. She even got big color glossies in Vanity Fair. That's as mainstream-elite left as you can get.

148 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:03:03am

re: #137 Killgore Trout

Good luck with that. I don't think enough people are interested in cleaning house. Glenn Beck's ratings are testimony that this sort of insanity is very popular.

The Rep party seems to me to be in a state of chaos - no leader, no leadership right now, and that is what we R's desperately need right now.

149 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:03:04am

re: #87 LudwigVanQuixote

Partial Repost:

This is a well organized and spreading phenomena.

Fox, Republican pundits and right wing talking heads are doing their level best to perpetuate, justify and incite more of this.

It is not just a matter of the MSM "covering up" lefties in the past. What makes this different is that you have people like Palin telling you that the government wants to kill you. What makes this different is not just that Fox covers these creeps, but that it gives them air time to speak their views as if they were reasonable people. What makes this different is the entire right wing talk culture doing it's best to ferment even more dissent and honestly cheering this on.

Let's be really clear about that.

The other thing that makes this very very different, is that the average Dem always saw the sorts of freaks in SF that Zombie points out as just that - freaks. I see huge amounts of evidence from right wing talking heads, and on this board even that somehow these right wing nuts are OK.

I'm glad you reposted this so I could up ding it twice, because you make great points. What's different is the right-wing pundits and "leaders" are fostering these extreme positions, and it's working!

New Poll Finds Majority Of Republicans Either Believes Or Isn’t Sure About “Death Panel” Claim

This, to me, is just sad and shows the scope of anti-intellectualism on the right. This was fact checked and fact checked, but folks don't want the facts, they want propaganda that confirms their pre-existing views.

150 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:03:06am

re: #121 LudwigVanQuixote

Let me explain... That rifle fires nato rounds that will penetrate all but really good body armor and it is absolutely not a toy. It is being used as a toy by an asshat who has no business owning a weapon.

There is no excuse whatsoever for this.

I'm going to say something wild here. These things are for grown-ups and children do not have the right to use grown-up things that are dangerous.

I agree with you, I was just expounding on the differences between rifles. It's not every day that I get to explain that, and I wanted to show my knowledge. And while your point is correct, honesty compels me to say that the guy with rifle does nothing in his carrying of it that would be unsafe. You are of course correct to point out the grave danger of nuts using semi-autos as props.

151 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:03:14am

re: #133 Athos

Why do so many link libretarians with Republican's?

Just goes to show that the GOP needs to do a far better job policing our own...and its past time to re-evict the birchers and libretarians from the GOP.

There are some sane libertarians, but to be honest we co-opted the greatest bulk of those into the Republican party years ago. Virginia Postrel is a libertarian, she's no nutball. So please do not make the mistake of smearing them all. We need to toss the birchers, the neo confederates, the NWO types, etc.

152 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:03:15am
153 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:03:56am

re: #146 Ringo the Gringo

This is what happens to people when they live too far outside the reach of the soothing chemtrails that keep the rest of us passive and reasonable.

do they wear their tin-foil hats in the shower?

154 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:04:01am

re: #133 Athos

you can be a libertarian with out being a moonbat/dingbat crazy nut. On personal liberty issues like the size of govt, if pot should be legal or not etc i might be a small 'l' libertarian I can't stand the libertarian party idea of foreign policy and the use of the military and these nuts also mentioned 'palestine' in this video so I am sure they aren't Israel friend either.

155 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:04:16am

re: #141 Salamantis

The two of them used to appear regularly together on TV political talk shows. The McLaughlin Report, for one.

"Moh-TUN!"

/john mclaughlin

156 KansasMom  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:04:23am

re: #121 LudwigVanQuixote

Let me explain... That rifle fires nato rounds that will penetrate all but really good body armor and it is absolutely not a toy. It is being used as a toy by an asshat who has no business owning a weapon.

There is no excuse whatsoever for this.

I'm going to say something wild here. These things are for grown-ups and children do not have the right to use grown-up things that are dangerous.

Absolutely. There have been plenty of drives from the left to ban black rifles, and these nutjobs have just fed right into that effort.

157 Occasional Reader  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:04:26am

re: #139 EmmmieG

You are talking about a human being who is armed, in his own house, while doing everything up to showering.

And then he LEAVES the gun to shower! Didn't this fool ever see Psycho?!

/

158 Gus  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:04:43am

4409 starts their video with a link to Freedom's Phoenix website.

From a Google search you can find the following at that site:

The new pro-Israeli front group spreading destructive Zionist dogma
---
James Von Brunn Plays Right Into the Zionist's Hands
---
A Wilsonian, Neo-Conservative Zionist Loon Blog attacks Pat Buchanan
---
Rahm Emanuel, who is to become Obama's chief-of-staff, is the son of a member of the Zionist terrorist group Irgu
---
Israeli law sanctions stealing Palestinian land

Gun protest --> 4409 --> Freedom's Phoenix

159 Athos  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:05:02am

re: #134 LudwigVanQuixote

Every single one who rather than condemning this behavior stringently goes on to equivocate about the second amendment and then reissue these freaks's talking points and incite them even further. That would be Palin, Rush, Hannity, Beck, and Matthews to name a few.

Matthews?? - ah, nevermind.

One can support the 2nd amendment and still stand against everything these nutters espouse...and shouldn't be painted with the same wide brush as the nutters.

160 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:05:07am

re: #153 ggt

do they wear their tin-foil hats in the shower?

Always wear aluminum in the shower, tin rusts.

161 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:05:23am

re: #137 Killgore Trout

Good luck with that. I don't think enough people are interested in cleaning house. Glenn Beck's ratings are testimony that this sort of insanity is very popular.

Our house is as clean and fresh as a spring day after a rain. How dare you suggest otherwise?! ///

162 gonecamping  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:05:30am

Well, he could always do like the new sheriff in Blazing Saddles...didn't he put a gun to his own head and threaten to shoot himself if the 'mob' didn't back down? (memory is a bit hazy, been a while since I saw the movie)


re: #126 Occasional Reader

So did "Chris", the AR-15 toter, get the memo on the white supremacist links?

How do you think that'll work out for ya, Chris?

163 Ojoe  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:05:38am

re: #133 Athos

Just goes to show that the GOP needs to do a far better job policing our own...and its past time to re-evict the birchers and libretarians from the GOP.

IMHO impossible. Check out the Modern Whig party as a reasonable alternative:
Modern Whigs

164 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:05:52am

re: #114 taxfreekiller

not yet, ms tfk is still in combat with ATT aka Southwestern Bell Tel.
something to do with they will not provide DSL, they say we are to far from any hub and it would cost to much
hope to get her to change..

later

tfk, is Embarq (Sprint) DSL offered where you are? They seem to cover a lot of rural areas in North Texas.

165 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:06:01am

re: #158 Gus 802

4409 starts their video with a link to Freedom's Phoenix website.

From a Google search you can find the following at that site:

Gun protest --> 4409 --> Freedom's Phoenix

Teh crazy, it burns!

166 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:06:11am

re: #158 Gus 802

A Wilsonian, Neo-Conservative Zionist Loon Blog attacks Pat Buchanan...

Take a wild guess who that is.

167 Silvergirl  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:06:31am

re: #54 jcm

Can't handle reality!

I have a conspiracy for you! No more self determination, no more responsibility, no more accountability. Pick up a conspiracy today, life is much easier! Lost your job? A conspiracy! Neighbors look at you funny? A conspiracy!

Drop all your cares and worries!
Pick up a conspiracy instead.

Special one time internet only offer!
Three conspiracies for the LOW! LOW! LOW! Price of $19.95.

Just this once, we'll give you the Nirth Certifikate, 9/11 Troof, and especial the massive Vax conspiracy all for $19.95.

Leave you worries behind!
Blame the conspiracy!

If I call right away, will you throw in the one about Paul McCartney being replaced by a lookalike after he died in the 1966?

168 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:06:32am

re: #147 Occasional Reader

the liberal MSM supported the mother moonbat until she decided to run against MADAME SPEAKER

169 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:06:36am

re: #154 yochanan

you can be a libertarian with out being a moonbat/dingbat crazy nut. On personal liberty issues like the size of govt, if pot should be legal or not etc i might be a small 'l' libertarian I can't stand the libertarian party idea of foreign policy and the use of the military and these nuts also mentioned 'palestine' in this video so I am sure they aren't Israel friend either.

Ditto here. Small "l" libertarian, small "c" conservative, classical liberal.

Life
Liberty
Property

170 Athos  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:06:54am

re: #151 Thanos

Point taken.

171 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:07:13am

re: #166 Charles

Take a wild guess who that is.

Us?

/heh

172 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:07:19am

re: #169 jcm

Ditto here. Small "l" libertarian, small "c" conservative, classical liberal.

Life
Liberty
Property

Yes, you have it!

173 Gus  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:07:25am

re: #166 Charles

Take a wild guess who that is.

Oh, I see. :)

174 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:07:32am

I have to go!

Have a great day all!

175 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:07:36am

re: #147 Occasional Reader

Uh, sorry, won't fly. Complete nutcase Cindy Sheehan was lionized by the "mainstream" left, even as her rants sounded ever-more indistinguishable from Stormfront talking points. She even got big color glossies in Vanity Fair. That's as mainstream-elite left as you can get.

You have got to be kidding me. Cindy Sheehan was not talking about kicking bush's but while carrying a rifle - and if she were the MSM would have dropped her in a heartbeat. Did you watch this video - "kick some Obamabut"...

Do you not see how your own views contradict each other?

If the MSM only reports on rightwing nuts to make them look bad and covered up leftwing nuts, then clearly you can not turn around and say that Cindy was a nut on the same level as these if she was spammed all over the place.

176 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:07:44am

re: #166 Charles

Take a wild guess who that is.

Rotating title?

177 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:07:46am

re: #167 Silvergirl

If I call right away, will you throw in the one about Paul McCartney being replaced by a lookalike after he died in the 1966?

Turn me on dead man, turn me on dead man...

178 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:08:06am

re: #174 ggt

I have to go!

Have a great day all!

Take care!

179 doubter4444  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:08:20am

re: #94 ggt

Didn't the Founders design our form of government specifically to circumvent the "tyranny of the majority"? I think, perhaps, these people are confused. It can be argued that what we have now is a "tyranny of the minority".


You would of thought with all the Jefferson and Madison and Hamilton they've read that rather major point would have sunk in... my guess they read the cliff notes version. Or only the parts that sound fun.

180 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:08:36am

re: #166 Charles

IF IT ISN'T US GIVE ME A LINK PLEASE.

181 Syrah  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:08:50am

re: #153 ggt

do they wear their tin-foil hats in the shower?

Hmmm. . .

Maybe there is some money in this . . .

We already have proof that they will buy into almost anything no matter how kooky.

I know! We could sell the Paul-bot freaks plans on how to convert their homes into Faraday Cages!

Why wear a tin-foil hat when you can wrap your whole house in the stuff?

182 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:08:54am
183 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:09:01am

I really need to change my nic...
That's a basket of nuts I do not want to be lumped into!!!

Any Ideas how???

184 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:09:02am

I joke, but these people really are dangerous nuts.

And stupid too, as they do more harm to the cause of freedom (which they supposedly cherish) than if they just stayed at home...(or at the compound).

185 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:09:08am

"And here is the Zionist loon in his natural habitat.."

///

186 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:09:12am

re: #166 Charles

Take a wild guess who that is.

LFG?

187 Occasional Reader  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:09:22am

re: #175 LudwigVanQuixote

Cindy Sheehan was not talking about kicking bush's but while carrying a rifle -

No, instead, she was praising the actual people who killed her son, wishing them success in killing more US troops, and claiming that the Iraq War was cooked up by the evil cabal of Jews who secretly control the US government.

Nothing extremist there, no sir!

Anyway, I'm off to lunch. Tawk amungst yahselves.

188 KansasMom  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:09:52am

re: #159 Athos

One can support the 2nd amendment and still stand against everything these nutters espouse...and shouldn't be painted with the same wide brush as the nutters.

These guys hardly make a case for the 2nd ammendment.
Any responsible gun owner should be horrified at the possible consequences of 4409's actions.
I honestly hope the NRA gives a statement condemning this stunt.

189 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:10:03am

re: #181 Syrah

Hmmm. . .

Maybe there is some money in this . . .

We already have proof that they will buy into almost anything no matter how kooky.

I know! We could sell the Paul-bot freaks plans on how to convert their homes into Faraday Cages!

Why wear a tin-foil hat when you can wrap your whole house in the stuff?

Fools I say! We've been putting nano-repeaters in tin foil for years! Tin foil boosts the signal!

BAWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

190 Gus  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:10:21am

Gets worse. This 4409 group downplays the threat to Israel from Iran in a video:

RON PAUL 4409 -- Wipe Israel off the map...blah blah blah

Info portion from RP4409 for the video:

THE MEDIA LIES AND LIES AND LIES

WHY? BECAUSE IT IS RAN BY THE CFR

PLEASE POST YOUR COMMENTS

RON PAUL 4409 -- Wipe Israel off the map...blah blah blah Nothing but lies from the media over and over.

Gun protest --> RP4409 --> Anti-Israel

191 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:10:25am

re: #186 Honorary Yooper

LFG?

Never tell them the terrible secret of LFG.

192 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:10:28am

re: #179 doubter4444

You would of thought with all the Jefferson and Madison and Hamilton they've read that rather major point would have sunk in... my guess they read the cliff notes version. Or only the parts that sound fun.

Nuts often read the words but only take away the meaning they wish to see. Try to explain the real meaning of the document and they see you are one of those conspiring against them. It's a closed circle. And with that, I must get to work. BBT

193 Ojoe  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:10:34am

re: #188 KansasMom

I AM horrified.

194 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:10:35am

also note the logo in the sidebar to the extreme militia site looks to be similar to stormfront's with a clenched fist in the middle rather than the Odin's cross, the wake up call should be familiar to anyone who's studied neo nazi groups, and you will also see mention of the Freemen movement in the nutball forum.

195 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:11:16am

re: #159 Athos

Matthews?? - ah, nevermind.

One can support the 2nd amendment and still stand against everything these nutters espouse...and shouldn't be painted with the same wide brush as the nutters.

Why not go and look at the Matthews interview with the first gun nutter guy that Charles posted. Matthews spent more time talking about how he is pro second amendment and carefully reiterating NH's open carry law - along with the freak saying the same - then Mattews did saying this was utterly stupid. He also gave the freak plenty of time to look like just a reasonable guy who was a concerned patriot. It was perfectly done. Fox gets top appear to be disapproving while egging these freaks on.

196 Gus  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:11:26am

re: #186 Honorary Yooper

LFG?

That would be Charles.

These people are disgusting.

197 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:12:03am

re: #24 Dianna

Oh. I missed that one. I was cleaning my guns with my Male.

/

Please, ... this is a family blog.

198 Rexatosis  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:12:13am

With rights come responsibilities, these guys seem to have missed the whole "responsibility" part.

199 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:12:26am

re: #194 Thanos

also note the logo in the sidebar to the extreme militia site looks to be similar to stormfront's with a clenched fist in the middle rather than the Odin's cross, the wake up call should be familiar to anyone who's studied neo nazi groups, and you will also see mention of the Freemen movement in the nutball forum.

Absolutely -- it's definitely an altered Odin's Cross.

200 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:12:32am

re: #191 Ward Cleaver

Never tell them the terrible secret of LFG.

Heh

201 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:12:33am

The worst one I won't name, and I won't send folks to his site. I think he's dangerous.

202 Athos  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:12:53am

re: #188 KansasMom

I agree with you, but my reference was to the 2nd amendment support made by Rush, Hannity, etc.

203 avanti  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:12:54am

This video gives me a real feel for the type of folks we're dealing with.


Youtube Video
204 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:13:00am

re: #186 Honorary Yooper

LFG?

Are you ready to take the blood oath of the deepest darker inner most secrets of the Zionist Cabal?

The Terrible Secret of LFG

***DO NOT CLICK TH LINK UNLESS YOU ARE***

205 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:13:19am

re: #166 Charles

Funny, but my first thought was my blog... the second thought was LGF. :)

206 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:13:20am

re: #187 Occasional Reader

No, instead, she was praising the actual people who killed her son, wishing them success in killing more US troops, and claiming that the Iraq War was cooked up by the evil cabal of Jews who secretly control the US government.

Nothing extremist there, no sir!

Anyway, I'm off to lunch. Tawk amungst yahselves.

OK, then the MSM did spam left wing nut jobs and that destroys your conspiracy theory to cover them up.

I am not defending momma moonbat. I am saying that you are not thinking consistently.

207 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:13:36am

re: #200 Alouette

Heh

Well, it's out now. Thanks a lot.

/

208 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:13:37am

re: #197 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Please, ... this is a family blog.

This is my rifle
This is my gun

209 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:13:39am

In the words of PJ O'Rourke, we losing sight of the fact that this country was founded by religious zealots with guns...

OK, I can't even get behind that.

These folks are the natural outgrowth of the Birchers, Klan, and every disaffected segment of the population. Fear and perceived lack of control has made them deranged-- and dangerous. They are poster children for gun control.

210 Syrah  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:13:55am

re: #189 jcm

Fools I say! We've been putting nano-repeaters in tin foil for years! Tin foil boosts the signal!

BAWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Nooo!

Your were supposed to keep that secret!

Now they will all start to suspect that everything that they know about science is wrong, that we have been fooling them for years, from kindergarten on up. (Which is true of course.)

The jig is now up.

211 KansasMom  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:13:58am

re: #202 Athos

I agree with you, but my reference was to the 2nd amendment support made by Rush, Hannity, etc.

I know, its my wording that was clumsy. I agree with ya.

212 Danny  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:14:05am

re: #17 Charles

Quite a few people have been defending and making excuses for them in the previous thread.

Not that anyone probably cares, but lest I get lumped into this group for saying what I posted in that thread, let me state that I categorically do not support or condone paleo-libertarianism, Ron Paul, Truthers, moon landing hoaxers, anti-vaccination kooks, Alex Jones, or any other insanity.

However, I have no problem at all with bugeyed people.

213 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:14:10am

And never, never, trust the shover robot.

214 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:14:51am

re: #146 Ringo the Gringo

This is what happens to people when they live too far outside the reach of the soothing chemtrails that keep the rest of us passive and reasonable.

No, these reacted to the chemtrails and became Reavers.

215 realwest  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:15:11am

re: #114 taxfreekiller
OK, just got something in my e-mail for me to forward to you.
And I hope y'all will try to remember that some of this is extremely cynical and cyclical: whenever there are tough times economically, the weirdos show up - every fucking time; last time I recall were the "survivalists" who were sure we'd go to nuclear war under Carter and sold lots of miliary surplus type equipment to the extemely gullible.
And of course the Extreme Left Wing types - Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn who use gasoline bombs filled with shrapnel (nails and such) to destroy property and kill people (and no it wasn't about Vietnam, they were just extremists; the Brinks robbery carried out by Cathy Boudin, for example, was in 1981 when two cops/Armored truck drivers were murdered).
Outta here folks - try to have a good day.
And never, ever give in to these extremist mofos - that the Left has it's fair share of the same type, doesn't make it right for the Right to do the same thing.

216 J.S.  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:15:28am

re: #175 LudwigVanQuixote

In Canada, there are a number of extreme libertarians -- but they cover both ends of the political spectrum -- there is a Leftist libertarianism up here...(somewhat similar to German anarchists (?)); they (at times) also link up with Islamists, etc. (it's a strange amalgamation...) (it's like Iran's Ahmadinejad linking up with Hugo Chavez, etc.)

217 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:15:53am

re: #190 Gus 802

Gets worse. This 4409 group downplays the threat to Israel from Iran in a video:

RON PAUL 4409 -- Wipe Israel off the map...blah blah blah

Info portion from RP4409 for the video:

Gun protest --> RP4409 --> Anti-Israel

Youtube Video
218 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:16:22am

OT ,, This is rich!

So ,, the IT guys at our company have been monkeying around with stuff sisnce last week. One of the things they wasnted to "fix" was our e-mail filtering system

Today, we have now recieved several e-mails from our corporate headquaters

They all ended up in our Junk E-Mail in box

WAY TO GO GUYS ,,,

Their End Of Year Reviews should be REAL interestinG!!

219 MandyManners  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:16:26am

Do they believe that Queen Elizabeth is a shape-shifting, reptillian alien?

220 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:17:24am

re: #219 MandyManners

You mean she's not? Explain her offspring then-- why do they look exactly like Corgis?

221 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:17:29am

Glenn Beck, Ron Paul, these “4409” idiots. It seems some libertarians are bound and determined to make conservatives look like stupid assholes.

222 debutaunt  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:17:36am

re: #218 sattv4u2

OT ,, This is rich!

So ,, the IT guys at our company have been monkeying around with stuff sisnce last week. One of the things they wasnted to "fix" was our e-mail filtering system

Today, we have now recieved several e-mails from our corporate headquaters

They all ended up in our Junk E-Mail in box

WAY TO GO GUYS ,,,

Their End Of Year Reviews should be REAL interestinG!!

When will you end your spellcheck boycott?

223 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:17:36am

re: #219 MandyManners

Do they believe that Queen Elizabeth is a shape-shifting, reptillian alien?

Containment breach!
Neuralizer on 219 STAT!

224 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:18:09am

re: #208 jcm

This is my rifle
This is my gun

YOU I expect it from.
What shocked me was it coming from (*gasp*) Dianna!

/... :D

225 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:18:27am

re: #222 debutaunt

When will you end your spellcheck boycott?

SpeelCzeck Iz Foor Wymps

226 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:18:28am

One can see by the list of videos that accompany this one at YouTube that these kooks are supporting a candidate for congress in New Mexico. He is running as a Republican. He claims to have party support, but I have heard otherwise. However, I have also heard that the Republicans may not put up another candidate, because they never win that seat anyway. Which makes this kook the standard-bearer for the party in his district. Makes me ill.

227 KenJen  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:18:31am

I've been hearing a lot about electro magnetic pulse theory. Anybody know if its legit.

228 J.S.  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:18:35am

re: #219 MandyManners

that all depends -- Queen liz I or queen liz II ...

229 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:18:51am

I got a virus warning from my computer when i went to that link.

230 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:18:53am

re: #224 pre-Boomer Marine brat

YOU I expect it from.
What shocked me was it coming from (*gasp*) Dianna!

/... :D

Who? Me?

231 CommonCents  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:19:57am

re: #179 doubter4444

You would of thought with all the Jefferson and Madison and Hamilton they've read that rather major point would have sunk in... my guess they read the cliff notes version. Or only the parts that sound fun.

My guess is that they can't read. They have repeatedly proven that theory with the bills being passed lately.

232 Russkilitlover  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:20:08am

Paleo-libertarian? Why complicate things. They're anarchists, plain and simple.

233 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:20:14am

re: #216 J.S.

In Canada, there are a number of extreme libertarians -- but they cover both ends of the political spectrum -- there is a Leftist libertarianism up here...(somewhat similar to German anarchists (?)); they (at times) also link up with Islamists, etc. (it's a strange amalgamation...) (it's like Iran's Ahmadinejad linking up with Hugo Chavez, etc.)

I have never denied the existence of leftwing nuts. Let me ask, in Canada, do politicos with the stature of Palin and other elected officials of a major party support them and feed their delusions?

In Canada is there a very vast amount of talk radio doing the same?

In Canada, is there a major network watched by millions egging them on and making them look like reasonable grass roots people?

234 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:20:17am

re: #221 Slumbering Behemoth

Glenn Beck, Ron Paul, these “4409” idiots. It seems some libertarians are bound and determined to make conservatives look like stupid assholes.

It's standard operating tactic of extreme groups. Attack the middle first, that way there isn't an alternative to them. It's the only way they can get followers. You will notice that they practice a lot of "RINO hunting" tactics.

235 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:20:18am

since i came down with depression i got rid of my ammo so now they are just expansive clubs.

236 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:20:51am

re: #230 jcm

Who? Me?

:D :D :D

237 The False God  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:20:52am

Yeah, they're pretty goddamn crazy.

I think I'm just going to have to consider starting a non-conservative, non-liberal group that takes the best of each, and ISN'T completely insane, because I can't find any group that isn't being taken over by these nutholes, on either side.

Maybe I should call it the Sane party.

238 midwestgak  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:20:55am

re: #227 KenJen

I've been hearing a lot about electro magnetic pulse theory. Anybody know if its legit.

It's as effective as copper bracelets.

239 doubter4444  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:21:04am

re: #89 SalsaNChips

They wanted to do something outlandish to garner attention for their nutty opinions and they got it.

Makes the rest of us responsible, law-abiding gun owners look bad. I don't care if it's legal -- it's in bad taste and was just done to make a display for the media.

Real gun owners don't feel the need to parade around, brandishing weapons like a bunch of jackasses.

FYI, I am a Texas CHL, active member of the NRA, GOA, TSRA and GCA.

I don't think they make gun owners look bad.
I'm a gun owner and I look at those people as a different species.
I think (read: hope) that most will not see this as a gun issue, but as a freedom issue, if that makes sense, meaning I see this as an attack on my liberty, the guns are only the part that amps up the scary
The real issue is the non-denunciation from major Republican leaders.
They seem like a bunch of surly emo teens lighting fires in the woods, never thinking that the whole freaking forest is going to up in flames

240 JEA62  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:21:23am

Hmmm, right-wing extremists who might pose a threat to people...

I remember reading that somewhere, but I can't for the life of me remember where it was. Anybody recall something about that a few months back???

241 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:21:28am

re: #227 KenJen

I've been hearing a lot about electro magnetic pulse theory. Anybody know if its legit.

Which respects? EMP weapons are very real, and have some scary potential.
Rail guns use EM pulsing to accelerate projectiles to orbital velocities and are also real.

242 Dianna  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:21:32am

re: #220 calcajun

You mean she's not? Explain her offspring then-- why do they look exactly like Corgis?

My corgi is much cuter than any of the Royal Family! And so are the Queen's!

243 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:22:08am

re: #212 Danny

Not that anyone probably cares, but lest I get lumped into this group for saying what I posted in that thread, let me state that I categorically do not support or condone paleo-libertarianism, Ron Paul, Truthers, moon landing hoaxers, anti-vaccination kooks, Alex Jones, or any other insanity.

However, I have no problem at all with bugeyed people.

Well . . . I had some trouble understanding what you mean by this, and still trying to understand.

I sort of agree with your previous post, in that I think we need to trust the Secret Service to do their job.

But honestly - whether it's legal to carry firearms or not in any particular area, anyone who shows up with a loaded gun at a political rally must have a screw loose somewhere - they are either stupid, OR they are looking to provoke something, even if they have no intention of using their weapon.

so - Charles describes this group as a "bugeyed insane gang", which they do seem to be, and you are saying here you have no problem with them?

244 BlueCanuck  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:22:11am

re: #233 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah, it's called CBC.

///

245 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:22:17am

re: #227 KenJen

In what sense? Will it take out the grid and the net? Perhaps. It's a theory and as far as I know has never been tested.

246 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:22:30am
247 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:22:57am
248 Syrah  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:23:03am

re: #226 wrenchwench

One can see by the list of videos that accompany this one at YouTube that these kooks are supporting a candidate for congress in New Mexico. He is running as a Republican. He claims to have party support, but I have heard otherwise. However, I have also heard that the Republicans may not put up another candidate, because they never win that seat anyway. Which makes this kook the standard-bearer for the party in his district. Makes me ill.

These are the kind of fights the Party must not shy away from.

They need to paint the guy as a fringe kook otherwise all of their other candidates will suffer from what will be portrayed as their support for the nut.

249 Dianna  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:23:08am

re: #246 buzzsawmonkey

Does your corgi chase cars? You could call it Corgi Tirebiter, in a nod to Firesign Theatre.

No, I fear for the cars.

His name is Maelgwynn Fuzzypants.

250 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:23:12am

re: #246 buzzsawmonkey

Does your corgi chase cars? You could call it Corgi Tirebiter, in a nod to Firesign Theatre.

I loved Firesign Theater...

251 Locker  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:23:29am

re: #237 The False God

Yeah, they're pretty goddamn crazy.

I think I'm just going to have to consider starting a non-conservative, non-liberal group that takes the best of each, and ISN'T completely insane, because I can't find any group that isn't being taken over by these nutholes, on either side.

Maybe I should call it the Sane party.

IMO LGF is a very good start with regard to such a group. At least moderates of both sides attempt to converse here and our host does a great job at maintaining an environment that promotes discourse. Thank you C.

252 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:23:30am

re: #246 buzzsawmonkey

Does your corgi chase cars? You could call it Corgi Tirebiter, in a nod to Firesign Theatre.

It chases Corgi toy cars

253 CommonCents  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:23:56am

re: #243 reine.de.tout

But honestly - whether it's legal to carry firearms or not in any particular area, anyone who shows up with a loaded gun at a political rally must have a screw loose somewhere - they are either stupid, OR they are looking to provoke something, even if they have no intention of using their weapon.

Just as kooky as folks who show up to polling places with billy clubs dressed in camo. I'm just sayin'

254 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:23:57am

re: #250 LudwigVanQuixote

I loved Firesign Theater...

Oh, he's no fun, he fell right over...

255 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:24:08am

re: #249 Dianna

No, I fear for the cars.

His name is Maelgwynn Fuzzypants.

Very Welsh. I love words with at least five consonants and two "y"s for every vowel.

256 Syrah  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:24:12am

re: #227 KenJen

I've been hearing a lot about electro magnetic pulse theory. Anybody know if its legit.

EMP is fun!

(It is real.)

257 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:24:18am

re: #249 Dianna

No wonder the dog has an attitude with a name like that.//

258 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:24:43am

re: #247 yochanan

as much as i think beck is the class clown ala p.t. barnum i have watched his show since he used nazi ovens as a back drop to talking about abortion.

you mention fox so much i really think that is your real target instead of beck

PIMF
HAVE NOT WATCHED OOPS AGAIN

259 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:24:44am

re: #237 The False God

Yeah, they're pretty goddamn crazy.

I think I'm just going to have to consider starting a non-conservative, non-liberal group that takes the best of each, and ISN'T completely insane, because I can't find any group that isn't being taken over by these nutholes, on either side.

Maybe I should call it the Sane party.

So- you're retracting your former support for these people?

260 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:24:48am

re: #246 buzzsawmonkey

Does your corgi chase cars? You could call it Corgi Tirebiter, in a nod to Firesign Theatre.

The thread was running without any bumps, but then it got corgiated.

261 BlackFedora  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:24:50am

I've been watching some more of the videos from these folks and what I hear over and over again is people such as these referring to people like Alex Jones, Aaron Russo and others as "true patriots." If being a "true patriot" means acting like a paranoid goofball... I don't want to be a true patriot.

262 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:24:54am

re: #252 Kosh's Shadow

Then it's a case of Corgi on Corgi violence?//

263 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:25:34am

CHARLES can i get comment 247 deleted PLEASE

264 BlueCanuck  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:25:43am

re: #260 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The thread was running without any bumps, but then it got corgiated.

Don't in-corgi him any more.

/okay, so I tried a little too hard.

265 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:25:44am

re: #260 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The thread was running without any bumps, but then it got corgiated.

Remarks like that have a galvanizing effect on some people.

266 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:25:47am

re: #240 JEA62

Hmmm, right-wing extremists who might pose a threat to people...

I remember reading that somewhere, but I can't for the life of me remember where it was. Anybody recall something about that a few months back???

I'm not advocating that it should be, but it could be viewed another way.

Knowing the radical changes that the Obama admin would start to propose once in office, and knowing how those changes would turn off many from the middle to the far right, it would look prescient to include
right-wing extremists who might pose a threat to people in that report

Please remember that the report warned about MANY , not just right-wing extremists who might pose a threat to people...

267 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:26:11am

re: #253 CommonCents

Just as kooky as folks who show up to polling places with billy clubs dressed in camo. I'm just sayin'

Absolutely agreed.
But what's happening now is people showing up with loaded guns.
I'm not pleased with how the guys with billy clubs in cammo ended up not being prosecuted.
Butt what's happening now is people showing up with loaded guns.

268 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:26:17am

re: #248 Syrah

These are the kind of fights the Party must not shy away from.

They need to paint the guy as a fringe kook otherwise all of their other candidates will suffer from what will be portrayed as their support for the nut.

They look at it from a "best use of limited resources" point of view. I'm looking at it from a "taint the Party for decades" point of view. I'll try to spread my view around.

269 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:26:26am

re: #264 BlueCanuck

Don't in-corgi him any more.

/okay, so I tried a little too hard.

"Incorgiable" springs to mind.

270 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:26:35am

leave out a not or no and it sure changes the meaning of the post

lol.

271 kansas  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:27:05am

To Killian, Walter, and Killgore...when I first saw the video of the black guy with the weapon I argued he was pro Obama. I apologize.

272 KenJen  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:27:07am

re: #241 jcm

Which respects? EMP weapons are very real, and have some scary potential.
Rail guns use EM pulsing to accelerate projectiles to orbital velocities and are also real.

I've heard that there is concern that a nuclear weapon could be snuck into the US via a cargo container,attached to a scud missile, shot into the atmosphere above the US, which would cause an emp. It would shut down our power grid. Apparently it has been discussed in congress.

273 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:27:37am

re: #269 pre-Boomer Marine brat

"Incorgiable" springs to mind.

We'll just incorigarate it into the next thread.

274 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:28:44am

re: #123 CommonCents

Nice respect for the deceased.
/no sarc

Benedict Arnold is dead too.

275 Danny  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:28:51am

re: #243 reine.de.tout

No, I am just saying I don't have any problem with their eyes. To be honest, I was sorta poking fun at Charles for using that description as if bugeyes bad or something. They run in my family, btw.

276 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:28:52am

re: #273 calcajun

We'll just incorigarate it into the next thread.

The whole place is going to the dogs!

277 Kragar  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:28:57am

Mexican drug smugglers tied to California fire

The La Brea Fire, which erupted August 8 in the Los Padres National Forest in the remote Santa Barbara County mountains northwest of Los Angeles, is believed to be the first major wildfire in the state caused by drug traffickers, U.S. Forest Service spokesman Jim Turner said on Monday.

A joint statement issued Saturday night by the Santa Barbara County sheriff's office and the Forest Service said the blaze was sparked by a "cooking fire in a marijuana drug trafficking operation ... believed to be run by a Mexican national drug organization."

While it may be the first time a drug ring has been linked to a fire, fires like this started by illegal alien camps are nothing new to CA. They're are literally dozens started like this every year.

278 SalsaNChips  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:29:19am

IMHO, the right, Republicans, conservatives, whatever you want to call it, is not “eating itself”, in a state of collapse, pending fascist takeover, etc.

There ARE some nuts coming out of the woodwork, trying to get attention (“lookit me!!!”). Specifically, in this case, parading around with loaded firearms, in a state that allows Open Carry. At an Obama rally. In a display of utterly infantile judgment.

Simple, they want attention and they are getting it.

In the process, they have (for today at least) demonized every law-abiding, rational, level-headed, honest concerned American who disagrees with Obama’s socialist policies enough to show up and voice their opinion.

Jerks. But jerks because of their freak opinions and poor judgment showing up armed, not because of actually (legally) owning firearms.

At any rate, it’s a wind-fall for the left and expect them (and their propaganda wing, the MSN) to milk it dry.

BTW, he is carrying an AR-15, which is a semi-auto rifle based on the military M-16. It is NOT a machine gun and cannot be converted to one. They are also NOT cheap.

279 Syrah  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:29:35am

re: #268 wrenchwench

They look at it from a "best use of limited resources" point of view. I'm looking at it from a "taint the Party for decades" point of view. I'll try to spread my view around.

Yours is the correct view. Remind them of David Duke and how much damage he did to the Republicans when he switched over from Democrat and ran as a Republican. Such things must be fought or they are viewed as agreement and acceptance.

280 BlueCanuck  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:29:54am

re: #272 KenJen

Well it was a worry years ago. I don't think a scud could do it though. Been a lot of thought and discussion about it for decades.

281 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:30:06am

re: #276 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The whole place is going to the dogs!

We'll just have to shepherd this one along till Charles starts a new one.

282 Locker  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:30:27am

re: #271 kansas

To Killian, Walter, and Killgore...when I first saw the video of the black guy with the weapon I argued he was pro Obama. I apologize.

I can hear the clank of your titanium balls from here. I'm not familiar with the debate ya'll were having but HUGE respect to anyone who is not afraid to call themselves out and apologize. Nice one.

283 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:30:40am

re: #275 Danny

No, I am just saying I don't have any problem with their eyes. To be honest, I was sorta poking fun at Charles for using that description as if bugeyes bad or something. They run in my family, btw.

ah, Ok.
Yeah, I have the thyroid bug-eyed look, myself, but since I'm not crazy and carrying guns around, I just ignored the description.

284 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:31:03am

re: #278 SalsaNChips

Lots of people have converted AR-15s to full auto. There maybe something in the newer models that makes that difficult (I don't know), but I assure you it has been done many times.

285 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:31:04am
286 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:31:09am

OT-- Looks like Farve will sign with the Vikings.

Sigh.

287 ryannon  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:31:17am

re: #1 yochanan

THESE ARE NUTS

HEAVE HELP US

re: #1 yochanan

Heave helps those who help themselves.

HEAVE-HO!

288 Russkilitlover  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:31:47am

re: #267 reine.de.tout

Absolutely agreed.
But what's happening now is people showing up with loaded guns.
I'm not pleased with how the guys with billy clubs in cammo ended up not being prosecuted.
Butt what's happening now is people showing up with loaded guns.

I see it as an escalation on both ends of the spectrum. You show up will billy clubs, we show up with guns. You beat up people, we...

Anarchists, all. They're anti-everything, which puts them beyond politics into the realm of nihilism.

289 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:31:58am

re: #272 KenJen

I've heard that there is concern that a nuclear weapon could be snuck into the US via a cargo container,attached to a scud missile, shot into the atmosphere above the US, which would cause an emp. It would shut down our power grid. Apparently it has been discussed in congress.

It would shut down the power gird, fry almost every unshielded micro chip, everything computer controlled from the power grid, to the traffic lights, the phone system down to your car and hospitals would be shut down in the worst case.

It doesn't even have to come it could be done from international waters.

Which is what makes folks nervous about incidents like that missing Russian cargo shop. Or stories like the Iranians launching SCUDs off barges in the Caspian.

Nuclear Weapon EMP Effects

290 Athos  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:32:06am

re: #195 LudwigVanQuixote

So, if someone expresses support for the 2nd amendment, accepts that some states have open carry laws that permit, and doesn't specifically tell the people who bring weapons openly to these meetings that they are nuts, they are encouraging the nutters like 4409, Freedom Phoenix, Earnest Hancock, etc?

Mighty wide brush / big strawman you are flouting there.

So, where is the real issue with you? Is it with the fact that there is a 2nd amendment right of gun ownership, or that some states do permit open carry, or that there are people who exercise that legal right and openly carry at political events? My issue is with their belief's and that while they may be legally permitted to open carry at events like this, doing so is highly provocative and should bring upon them the condemnation that their points of view / belief system rightly deserve. That condemnation is less about gun rights and more on their odious beliefs and acceptance of nutter positions / conspiracist theories that have them on the extreme fringe where they belong.

If these nutters weren't open carrying, we wouldn't be aware of them and able to condemn them as being complete whacked out asshats from the hard right fringe.

291 J.S.  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:32:33am

re: #233 LudwigVanQuixote

In Canada, I don't think there's a similar form of extremist "right-wingism" as there is in the United States (it's due to different histories/political cultures of the two countries)...I think in the States there's a deep-seated strain of politics (Libertarians tend to embrace it) which distrusts the government (they hate authority figures, despise police, etc.)...In Canada, if a person has gone through the Canadian public school system here, you won't find these deep-seated fears/hatred of the Central Government or authority figures (I'm speaking in generalities here, of course). (On the extreme fringes -- and no "talk radio", no "representatives in government", they have zero representation anywhere -- are the ultra extreme KKKers who are avowed racists (you know, the Zundel types) -- but they don't have a voice (they end up in court charged with Hate Speech crimes, etc.) -- some MPs in Parliament seem to be pro-Islamist, but no one in government, I'm aware of, are representative of the KKKer types...)

292 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:32:49am

re: #218 sattv4u2

OT ,, This is rich!

So ,, the IT guys at our company have been monkeying around with stuff sisnce last week. One of the things they wasnted to "fix" was our e-mail filtering system

Today, we have now recieved several e-mails from our corporate headquaters

They all ended up in our Junk E-Mail in box

WAY TO GO GUYS ,,,

Their End Of Year Reviews should be REAL interestinG!!

That sounds like a good filter!

293 JEA62  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:32:56am

"I'm not advocating that it should be, but it could be viewed another way."

Seems to me I remember righties (justifiably) going off about the black panther intimidation of voters in Philly on election day. And they weren't even carrying guns.

294 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:32:59am

re: #285 buzzsawmonkey

Serious question. The Black Panthers advocated revolution, killing policemen, and similar acts of violence--openly. They carried guns, and toted them at events they staged. They were popular in their home neighborhoods, and enjoyed much wider support than their actual membership. They were actively involved in drug dealing and protection rackets. They even engaged in actual shootouts with police. Yet the Republic survived these insurrectionist gangsters, who had, in their heyday, a far higher track record of violence than the nuts depicted at the top of this thread.

So...for the purpose of assessing the actual nature of the idiots who are the subject of this thread, does anybody know the actual numbers that they represent, compared to the Panthers in their heyday?

Yes, these people are crazy, politically disgusting, armed and vocal. Are they a threat as big as the Panthers? Smaller? Larger? Do we know?

And because of them many of the laws that allowed the Black Panthers to carry weapons were modified to make that behavior illegal. You see, when it was black leftist crazies (who honestly had a much more legitimate beef) there was much less confusion about what the Second Amendment did and did not cover.

295 debutaunt  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:33:01am

re: #286 calcajun

OT-- Looks like Farve will sign with the Vikings.

Sigh.

Thank you for pronouncing his name correctly!

296 donk1100  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:33:39am

one guy was black, so your white supremacist theory is kinda wrong

297 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:34:06am

re: #285 buzzsawmonkey

Yes, these people are crazy, politically disgusting, armed and vocal. Are they a threat as big as the Panthers? Smaller? Larger? Do we know?

Well- in the most extreme scenario, they would be worse because if one of these nuts snaps and kills the President, my guess is the fall-out will be epic.

298 BlackFedora  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:34:19am

re: #296 donk1100

It just shows stupid comes in all colors.

299 Russkilitlover  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:34:21am

re: #277 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Mexican drug smugglers tied to California fire

While it may be the first time a drug ring has been linked to a fire, fires like this started by illegal alien camps are nothing new to CA. They're are literally dozens started like this every year.

Did you ever read Tortilla Curtain? It's an older book, but magnificently captures the illegal alien issue vis-a-vis the structure and people who enable them. Very touching and humane portrayal of all sides.

300 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:34:29am

re: #286 calcajun

OT-- Looks like Farve will sign with the Vikings.

Sigh.

Brett, retire already!

301 bnichols10  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:34:36am

re: #289 jcm

Read this if you are interested in what might happen.

302 Digital Display  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:34:51am

Good Afternoon Lizards!
Hope everyone is well today...

303 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:34:52am

But...they'we pwotecing ouw fweeedom!

304 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:34:59am

Watching videos produced by these 4409 jerks, I'm struck by what seems to be an infatuation with themselves -- like pathetic little Walter Mittys who've finally found a niche in life.

/absolutely not suggesting that one, some, or all, are harmless

305 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:35:29am

re: #285 buzzsawmonkey

You forget that Al Capone was also an immensely popular figure. So was John Gotti for a while. Despite their notoriety, they were still criminals-- just like the Panthers. Only the Panthers criminal behavior was not mentioned as it would not serve to further the political end.

These loonies aren't criminals (at least I am assuming none of those arms were automatic weapons). But their stance and attitude only serves to make people scared-- and when people are scared, the government must then do something to relieve that fear. These twits are damaging the Second Amendment.

306 Lee Coller  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:35:31am

Hmm...

Karma: -21

donk1100

(Logged in)
Registered since: Nov 6, 2004 at 3:48 pm
No. of comments posted: 12
No. of links posted: 0

307 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:36:23am

re: #293 JEA62

"I'm not advocating that it should be, but it could be viewed another way."

Seems to me I remember righties (justifiably) going off about the black panther intimidation of voters in Philly on election day. And they weren't even carrying guns.

And I seem to remember that EVERY time one of these fools shows up LGF is all over them. Do you have a point ?

308 Russkilitlover  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:36:24am

re: #285 buzzsawmonkey

Serious question. The Black Panthers advocated revolution, killing policemen, and similar acts of violence--openly. They carried guns, and toted them at events they staged. They were popular in their home neighborhoods, and enjoyed much wider support than their actual membership. They were actively involved in drug dealing and protection rackets. They even engaged in actual shootouts with police. Yet the Republic survived these insurrectionist gangsters, who had, in their heyday, a far higher track record of violence than the nuts depicted at the top of this thread.

So...for the purpose of assessing the actual nature of the idiots who are the subject of this thread, does anybody know the actual numbers that they represent, compared to the Panthers in their heyday?

Yes, these people are crazy, politically disgusting, armed and vocal. Are they a threat as big as the Panthers? Smaller? Larger? Do we know?

I think they are more of a threat because of their focus against the POTUS. The Black Panthers didn't, if I recall, show up at events where the Pres was speaking.

309 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:36:42am

re: #302 HoosierHoops

Good Afternoon Lizards!
Hope everyone is well today...

How's Winston?

310 califleftyb  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:36:49am

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
How come we keep forgetting the "well regulated" part???!!!

311 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:36:54am

re: #300 Ward Cleaver

Agreed

312 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:37:05am

re: #308 Russkilitlover

I think they are more of a threat because of their focus against the POTUS. The Black Panthers didn't, if I recall, show up at events where the Pres was speaking.

They would have been shot in the streets.

313 Digital Display  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:37:25am

re: #306 Lee Coller

Hmm...

Karma: -21

donk1100

(Logged in)
Registered since: Nov 6, 2004 at 3:48 pm
No. of comments posted: 12
No. of links posted: 0


Approx. 2 posts a year..Well, I guess we'll be seeing them again around the Christmas Holidays

314 donk1100  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:37:48am

re: #298 BlackFedora
the point is that i depend on lgf to post dependable info, if i want hear/say i can watch CNN

315 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:37:58am

re: #313 HoosierHoops

Approx. 2 posts a year..Well, I guess we'll be seeing them again around the Christmas Holidays

And I thought I was a slow typer!

316 Danny  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:38:04am

re: #310 califleftyb

Plenty of gun regulations. Go buy one and see for yourself.

317 JEA62  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:38:08am

If Obama were to be assasinated by a white person, especially a right wingnut like one of these guys - God forbid - there would be race riots in this country that would make the Rodney King LA riots look like a picnic in the park.

318 Kragar  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:38:08am

re: #296 donk1100

one guy was black, so your white supremacist theory is kinda wrong

So the links to white supremacist sites and ads on their site are some kind of plot to discredit them? Reading comprehension and basic reasoning skills aren't exactly your strong point I see,

319 Lee Coller  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:38:17am

re: #313 HoosierHoops

Approx. 2 posts a year..Well, I guess we'll be seeing them again around the Christmas Holidays

Nope

320 doubter4444  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:38:18am

re: #175 LudwigVanQuixote

You have got to be kidding me. Cindy Sheehan was not talking about kicking bush's but while carrying a rifle - and if she were the MSM would have dropped her in a heartbeat. Did you watch this video - "kick some Obamabut"...

Do you not see how your own views contradict each other?

If the MSM only reports on rightwing nuts to make them look bad and covered up leftwing nuts, then clearly you can not turn around and say that Cindy was a nut on the same level as these if she was spammed all over the place.

Agreed, and "Lionized by the mainstream Left"... sorry, that's just not the case. My impression is that most people right and left thought she was harmless, and shouting at the wind. That's hardly "lionized".
And enough of the justifications, for Pete's sake.
"They did it too" won't fly when these guys shoot somebody.
Or, actually, it will, to some - mark my words, people start pulling out the Ayers bombing from the 70's as a 'lefties killed too, only with BOMBS, not little pea-shooting assault rifles, like the right."
It's about Responsibility. Seeing a problem in the only way of dealing with it.

321 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:38:25am

re: #310 califleftyb

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
How come we keep forgetting the "well regulated" part???!!!

Because the "right of the people" and the militia are separate clauses. Heller v. DC affirmed it is an individual right.

322 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:38:34am
323 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:38:35am

re: #305 calcajun

You forget that Al Capone was also an immensely popular figure. So was John Gotti for a while. Despite their notoriety, they were still criminals-- just like the Panthers. Only the Panthers criminal behavior was not mentioned as it would not serve to further the political end.

These loonies aren't criminals (at least I am assuming none of those arms were automatic weapons). But their stance and attitude only serves to make people scared-- and when people are scared, the government must then do something to relieve that fear. These twits are damaging the Second Amendment.

Another popular outlaw was Jesse James.

324 theheat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:38:45am

This has nothing to do with Second Amendment rights. These freaks are begging for a confrontation the same way some obtuse jackass in a bar does: by intimidation and provocation; begging for a confrontation. In simpler terms, they're just itching to "start some shit".

I've been raised around guns and every person in my family has them. But to be in close proximity with people like this gives me the spooks. Anyone who would wear guns around the POTUS is too shit fucking dumb for words, and is actually jeopardizing the same rights they think they're exercising.

Way to go, dumbshits. Please, by all means, fuck it up for the rest of us.

325 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:38:51am

re: #282 Locker

I can hear the clank of your titanium balls from here. I'm not familiar with the debate ya'll were having but HUGE respect to anyone who is not afraid to call themselves out and apologize. Nice one.

That's very progressive of you :)

326 BlackFedora  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:38:56am

re: #314 donk1100

I don't think Charles called them white supremacists.

327 Syrah  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:39:00am

re: #297 Sharmuta

Well- in the most extreme scenario, they would be worse because if one of these nuts snaps and kills the President, my guess is the fall-out will be epic.

Allowing that much concentrated stupidity to be in such close proximity to the president is potentially disastrous.

I don't know why the secret service isn't rounding those nuts up for some quite time in the gray bar hotel while the president is in town.

328 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:39:11am

re: #277 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Mexican drug smugglers tied to California fire

While it may be the first time a drug ring has been linked to a fire, fires like this started by illegal alien camps are nothing new to CA. They're are literally dozens started like this every year.

Mexicans, growing the medical marijuana that Americans won't grow.

/

329 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:39:13am

re: #296 donk1100

Yes and no. I don't think all of 4409 are WN, but they definitely promote anti-semitism, and are deeply associated with sites are are WN militia sites.

330 The False God  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:39:43am

re: #259 Sharmuta

I wasn't supporting them. I was supporting the principle of the right to carry in public, and trying to challenge the notion that doing so is somehow de facto intimidation. Also trying to highlight the difference between the ways, that I've seen, in which some people seem to qualify what they think is the worst sort of extremism.

My belief is that these guys are crazy, and that both parties and movements (conservative/liberal) are pretty much being overtaken in equal measure by crazy folks that I have no desire to associate with.

However, I believe like the Jewish lawyer that defended American NAZIs: all rights must be protected equally, or none must be protected at all. We can't have a grey area. Even if he's a cock-sucker, that guy didn't do anything illegal and behaved in a civilized manner. He didn't violate anyone's rights. Therefore, his actions should be defended, even if I think his intent was atrocious.

331 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:39:45am

re: #6 JHW

I'm beginning to wonder if any of the Paulians are sane.


you're just beginning to wonder that?

332 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:40:21am

re: #317 JEA62

If Obama were to be assasinated by a white person, especially a right wingnut like one of these guys - God forbid - there would be race riots in this country that would make the Rodney King LA riots look like a picnic in the park.

I agree completely, and I'll go further. The people brandishing these weapons WANT a revolution, they want a civil war. It wouldn't just be riots. Both "sides" would snap and the desired war would be upon us.

333 midwestgak  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:40:31am

re: #306 Lee Coller

Hmm...

Karma: -21

donk1100

(Logged in)
Registered since: Nov 6, 2004 at 3:48 pm
No. of comments posted: 12
No. of links posted: 0

The class of 2004 has been reuniting in the threads lately.

334 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:40:47am

re: #330 The False God

If you take a weapon to a political gathering yes, it is intimidation.

335 califleftyb  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:40:53am

re: #321 jcm

And does "well regulated" preclude one for the other?

336 Digital Display  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:41:08am

re: #309 pre-Boomer Marine brat

How's Winston?


Hi Brat..He seems to be his normal dog self..We are going swimming in about an hour. :)

337 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:41:37am

re: #329 Thanos

Yes and no. I don't think all of 4409 are WN, but they definitely promote anti-semitism, and are deeply associated with sites are are WN militia sites.

Agreed. There are very few blacks in the militia movement in general. Probably not many Jews either but it does happen.

338 KenJen  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:41:39am

Reine. You still out there? It worked. I'm going to FL for another vacation. Yeah. Thanks for the advice.

339 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:42:00am

re: #336 HoosierHoops

Hi Brat..He seems to be his normal dog self..We are going swimming in about an hour. :)

Good news.
Was it probably something he ate?

340 Lee Coller  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:42:03am

re: #330 The False God

I wasn't supporting them. I was supporting the principle of the right to carry in public, and trying to challenge the notion that doing so is somehow de facto intimidation. Also trying to highlight the difference between the ways, that I've seen, in which some people seem to qualify what they think is the worst sort of extremism.


This is naive idealism just like we see on the left. Maybe it shouldn't be intimidation, but given that there is no legitimate reason to need to be armed in such a scenario its hard to see how it isn't.

The reality is, despite what you want to believe, that in today's society it is intimidation and provides ammunition to our opponents.

341 The False God  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:42:13am

re: #334 Thanos

No, it isn't. Brandishing a weapon is intimidation. Carrying a weapon isn't.

342 califleftyb  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:42:14am

re: #316 Danny

"regulation: does not, or should not end after a gun is purchased. You get a driver's license, don't follow the rules and you may get it suspended or revoked.

343 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:42:29am

re: #324 theheat

That's the main point, they are looking for a confrontation.

Abusing the 2nd doing so.

The flip side to the 2nd, is responsibility with firearms. Toting them around POTUS is irresponsible. Carrying quoting Jefferson's Tree of Liberty is irresponsible. Opening carrying with the implied threat of use is irresponsible.

They are abusing the 2nd and imperiling the Right to keep and bear arms for those of us who are responsible.

344 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:42:29am

re: #310 califleftyb

Out of chaos comes order?

345 Syrah  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:42:52am

off to play in the garden and then go to work.

See you all in 13

346 kansas  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:43:00am

re: #325 Walter L. Newton

Walter, sorry about misleading you on that video.

347 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:43:01am

re: #341 The False God

No, it isn't. Brandishing a weapon is intimidation. Carrying a weapon isn't.

We disagree.

348 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:43:13am

re: #338 KenJen

Reine. You still out there? It worked. I'm going to FL for another vacation. Yeah. Thanks for the advice.

Great News!
:-)

349 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:43:30am

re: #330 The False God

...and behaved in a civilized manner...

Carrying a gun into a political meeting, where tensions are already partly high due to the nature of the debate over the last few weeks, in a crowd that could contain citizens of all age groups and you call that civilized?

Explain?

350 JohnnyReb  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:43:32am

re: #327 Syrah

Allowing that much concentrated stupidity to be in such close proximity to the president is potentially disastrous.

I don't know why the secret service isn't rounding those nuts up for some quite time in the gray bar hotel while the president is in town.

Well uh, that would be illegal. Stupid as these guys are, they didn't break any laws. Due process protects even idiots.

351 turn  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:43:34am

rut ro, when I hover over Charles links on this post I get a flyout advertisement through "infolinks." Do you all get that or did turn just get some kind of virus?

352 The False God  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:43:38am

re: #342 califleftyb

If you use a gun inappropriately, such as threatening someone with it or firing it off in public for no reason/mischievously, you get sent to jail.

How is this not regulation?

353 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:43:42am

re: #278 SalsaNChips

Jerks. But jerks because of their freak opinions and poor judgment showing up armed, not because of actually (legally) owning firearms.

I haven't taken an official poll, but I believe you expressed what I consider to be the consensus opinion here.

354 Digital Display  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:43:57am

re: #348 reine.de.tout

Great News!
:-)


It always helps to have an HR person on the thread...Hi reine!

355 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:44:05am

re: #341 The False God

No, it isn't. Brandishing a weapon is intimidation. Carrying a weapon isn't.

Are you nuts? You're seriously going to argue that there's nothing intimidating about showing up to a political rally with a loaded AR15?

Good freaking grief.

356 Locker  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:44:11am

re: #325 Walter L. Newton

That's very progressive of you :)

Interestingly enough that's one of the nicest things anyone has said to me here, so far, even if it was "tongue in cheek". Progressive is definitely preferable to socialist, troll, banned user in disguise and it validates my "I

357 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:44:15am

re: #323 Kosh's Shadow

Interesting point-- by today's standards, he would have been a terrorist and a "freedom fighter".

358 tradewind  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:44:22am
They’re 9/11 Truthers, moon landing hoaxers, anti-vaccination kooks, Alex Jones fans — name a conspiracy theory, they believe it.


In other words, they have nothing at all to do with the RNC or average Republicans.
Not that the MSM won't try to make this link, however much of a stretch...

359 Syrah  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:44:25am

re: #341 The False God

No, it isn't. Brandishing a weapon is intimidation. Carrying a weapon isn't.

They ARE brandishing their weapons.

They are making sure that people see them.

360 Kragar  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:44:28am

White House fesses up and takes responsibility for spam

NOT!

White House Blames E-Mail Controversy on 'Sinister Conspiracy Theories'

After confirming to FOX News over the weekend that third-party groups could be responsible for official White House e-mails that have been sent to people who never signed up for them, President Obama's new media director took to the official White House blog to "clear up" the confusion, and pointed the finger at "outside groups of all political stripes."

361 The False God  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:44:38am

re: #347 Thanos

I agree to disagree, good sir. You have your reasons for believing one way, and I'm not going to say they're invalid.

362 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:44:53am

re: #346 kansas

Walter, sorry about misleading you on that video.

That's fine. I can take it. "Boo" doesn't scare me :)

363 Russkilitlover  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:45:09am

re: #332 Sharmuta

I agree completely, and I'll go further. The people brandishing these weapons WANT a revolution, they want a civil war. It wouldn't just be riots. Both "sides" would snap and the desired war would be upon us.

To "want a revolution," or even a "civil war," you need to have an endgame in mind. As I've been stating, these people just want the mayhem. They are anarchists - look back on America at the turn of the century. I'm seeing some similarities - all starting with a crashing economy.

364 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:45:17am

re: #351 turn

rut ro, when I hover over Charles links on this post I get a flyout advertisement through "infolinks." Do you all get that or did turn just get some kind of virus?

I'm trying out the Infolinks advertising network. Just installed the code.

365 albusteve  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:45:21am

re: #334 Thanos

If you take a weapon to a political gathering yes, it is intimidation.

it needs to be illegal...I hope the feds are moving on this legally, or are they intimidated too?...pass a new law then bust a few people?...that in itself could be problematic...these people are really doing a number on the rest of us

366 donk1100  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:45:25am

re: #318 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
kafir, not a fan of any supremacist group no matter what flavor they are. i read lgf weekly and i want them to be accurate. i do not post comments often because i rarely disagree with the main board. forget it...this is why i never post any comments because folks like you are sitting around all day just to misinterpret a post. good bye for another year. donk

367 califleftyb  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:45:42am

re: #352 The False God

How about "brandishing" a weapon for political incitement - I consider that an inappropriate and a criminal act. That is what happened. Take their guns away!

368 Syrah  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:45:51am

re: #350 JohnnyReb

Well uh, that would be illegal. Stupid as these guys are, they didn't break any laws. Due process protects even idiots.

The secret service can do that. Once they brought the weapons to the meetings, they had the probable cause.

369 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:45:51am

Repost from a thread downstairs. It applies up here because of a tendency for people to think that constitutional rights only protect themselves.

This Texas law is fine. The First Amendment is about freedom of religion NOT freedom FROM religion, just as it also is about freedom of the press. Some crazy people seem to think the establishment clause is about banning all religious books from public education! How ridiculous. Like it or not, the Bible as well as churches have had a profound impact upon the history of Western civilization. We need to educate our young people, not ostracize them from religious information.

That is exactly wrong. I have every right to not have to hear someone else's dogma preached in my schools or government forums.

People should study the Bible in school in as much as it is a cultural thing. The freaks in Texas do not just want to teach the Bible's impact on history and literature, they want to teach it as literal truth as defined by their own narrow dogmas. I assure you, as a Jew, who has read it in the original, I get offended when these assholes tell me what is in my book. As a scientist, I assure you I get offended when these asshats tell me that because of their limited understanding of my book, evolution could not have happened. Bringing this full circle, I assure you that these asshats would really not want me teaching the literal truths of the Bible as I understand them to their kids.

370 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:45:55am
371 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:46:10am

re: #354 HoosierHoops

It always helps to have an HR person on the thread...Hi reine!

Hiya HH.
former HR (I am retired)

372 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:46:12am

re: #361 The False God

I agree to disagree, good sir. You have your reasons for believing one way, and I'm not going to say they're invalid.

Why don't you debate the point, that's sort of what we are here for, that is sort of what a blog is all about, that's sort of civilized.

373 Silvergirl  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:46:16am

re: #341 The False God

No, it isn't. Brandishing a weapon is intimidation. Carrying a weapon isn't.

If the weapon is big and powerful enough, carrying = brandishing, and I don't need a dictionary to set me straight.

374 Locker  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:46:17am

re: #355 Charles

Are you nuts? You're seriously going to argue that there's nothing intimidating about showing up to a political rally with a loaded AR15?

Good freaking grief.

I assumed he meant if it was hidden it's not intimidating but perhaps my assumption was incorrect.

375 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:46:18am

re: #355 Charles

Are you nuts? You're seriously going to argue that there's nothing intimidating about showing up to a political rally with a loaded AR15?

Good freaking grief.

It's also industrial-strength stupid, since it could backfire (pardon the pun) politically, giving the Dems a reason to draft some draconian gun control laws, which 0bama would probably sign.

376 turn  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:46:35am

re: #364 Charles

I'm trying out the Infolinks advertising network. Just installed the code.

wheew, I had a terrible time getting rid of the last google virus, had to wipe the whole hard drive and start from scratch. Thanks.

377 SalsaNChips  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:46:42am

re: #284 LudwigVanQuixote

Lots of people have converted AR-15s to full auto. There maybe something in the newer models that makes that difficult (I don't know), but I assure you it has been done many times.


Requires obtaining BATFE controlled parts like full auto sear, re-engineering (milling) major portions of the upper/lower receiver (hey, can I borrow your metal mill and CNC lathe for the weekend? THANKS), not to mention it being a FELONY, nice warm room with Bubba, etc.

So, I personally doubt your "done many times" ascertation, at least outside of BATFE controlled laboratories...

378 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:46:45am

re: #363 Russkilitlover

To "want a revolution," or even a "civil war," you need to have an endgame in mind. As I've been stating, these people just want the mayhem. They are anarchists - look back on America at the turn of the century. I'm seeing some similarities - all starting with a crashing economy.

They do have an end game in mind- they think they're going to restore the republic to its "original intent".

379 The False God  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:46:47am

re: #367 califleftyb

But it's not illegal. And it wasn't brandishing.

That was the safest way to carry a rifle. Slung over the shoulder.

If he was carrying it in his arms, that is brandishing. But it was in a neutral position.

380 MandyManners  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:46:53am

re: #314 donk1100

the point is that i depend on lgf to post dependable info, if i want hear/say i can watch CNN

Follow the links.

381 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:47:06am

re: #296 donk1100

one guy was black, so your white supremacist theory is kinda wrong

It's not a "theory." The links to white supremacist sites are ON THEIR WEBSITE. This is known as a "fact."

382 Locker  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:47:08am

re: #356 Locker

Interestingly enough that's one of the nicest things anyone has said to me here, so far, even if it was "tongue in cheek". Progressive is definitely preferable to socialist, troll, banned user in disguise and it validates my "I

...validates my "I love Russ Feingold" T-shirt.

383 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:47:17am

Someone here needs to be asked ... "might carrying a loaded AR-15 just because one can be a triffle immature?"

/extreme sarc re: "triffle"

384 Syrah  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:47:24am

Yep. That was work on the phone.

Just when I am having fun too.

bbl

385 tradewind  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:47:35am

re: #359 Syrah

I don't think anyone should be foolish enough to carry near a public rally or a president.
That said, I'd rather see one that's being carried than have it concealed underneath a coat. And you can bet there are some of those.

386 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:47:40am

re: #335 califleftyb

And does "well regulated" preclude one for the other?

No. The right is individual. The militia is the for the security of a free state, made up of individuals.

Rights only belong to individuals not groups or classes.

The first and foremost purpose of the 2nd is so the people would be armed, and therefore be able to resist tyranny.

Before I get accused of advocating revolution, the list of grievances in the Declaration of Independence sets for the circumstances a legitimate revolution. We are no where near that point.

387 Danny  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:47:47am

re: #355 Charles

Not sure, but I think he's trying to distinguish between carrying (as in concealed) and brandishing, as in visible. The former is not intimidation, but can't really conceal an AR15 so intimidation is automatic. Unless you aren't intimidated by AR15s, that is.

388 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:47:48am

re: #377 SalsaNChips

Requires obtaining BATFE controlled parts like full auto sear, re-engineering (milling) major portions of the upper/lower receiver (hey, can I borrow your metal mill and CNC lathe for the weekend? THANKS), not to mention it being a FELONY, nice warm room with Bubba, etc.

So, I personally doubt your "done many times" ascertation, at least outside of BATFE controlled laboratories...

The laws were made so tough on this because so many people were doing it.

389 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:47:59am

re: #365 albusteve

it needs to be illegal...I hope the feds are moving on this legally, or are they intimidated too?...pass a new law then bust a few people?...that in itself could be problematic...these people are really doing a number on the rest of us

I wouldn't agree to making it illegal, that's a slippery slope, keep in mind they were on public streets. It's kind of like the nazis marching in Skokie. I support the right to do so, but I certainly don't support the neonazi nutballs who were trying to . Making it illegal is exactly why this provocative demonstration was made, they want a reaction like that.

390 Pianobuff  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:48:17am

Google ads at the top of the page...

How To Defend Yourself
Discover What The Martial Artists And The Army Don't Want You To Know

Make Peace, Not War
You can help stop violence that arises because of political unrest

Google is going multiple personality disorder on us...

391 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:48:19am

re: #360 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

White House fesses up and takes responsibility for spam

NOT!

White House Blames E-Mail Controversy on 'Sinister Conspiracy Theories'

What's next? 0bama shows up at a rally, brandishing an AR-15?

/the cfr made me do it!

///

392 Lee Coller  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:48:30am

re: #374 Locker

I assumed he meant if it was hidden it's not intimidating but perhaps my assumption was incorrect.

Concealed carry with an AR-15?

393 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:48:59am
394 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:49:00am

re: #388 LudwigVanQuixote

The laws were made so tough on this because so many people were doing it.

Er, no. The laws were made tough on this because the potential fallout could be disastrous, not because it was terribly easy to do. A good many would-be terrorists die every year trying to convert their weapons to full automatic and failing.

395 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:49:11am

re: #370 buzzsawmonkey

My question was what their relative strength actually is.

Then this is relativism.

396 JHW  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:49:13am

re: #337 Killgore Trout

Kilgore, do you have any info if there is still a militia movement as such? The last I can remember them is from several years ago, the old Michigan Militia and such, but haven't heard of them lately, although that could be ignorance on my part.

397 debutaunt  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:49:45am

re: #375 Ward Cleaver

It's also industrial-strength stupid, since it could backfire (pardon the pun) politically, giving the Dems a reason to draft some draconian gun control laws, which 0bama would probably sign.

That result seems to be heading our way in slow motion, so far.

398 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:49:56am

re: #379 The False God

But it's not illegal. And it wasn't brandishing.

That was the safest way to carry a rifle. Slung over the shoulder.

If he was carrying it in his arms, that is brandishing. But it was in a neutral position.

Brandishing is not just in how it is carried, but where as well. They were very much brandishing them as they were carrying them to this event.

399 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:49:59am

re: #374 Locker

I assumed he meant if it was hidden it's not intimidating but perhaps my assumption was incorrect.



Kinda hard to hide an ar15

400 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:50:09am
401 Dianna  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:50:12am

re: #264 BlueCanuck

Don't in-corgi him any more.

/okay, so I tried a little too hard.

My corgi is incorrigible.

402 BlueCanuck  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:50:25am

re: #379 The False God

But it's not illegal. And it wasn't brandishing.

That was the safest way to carry a rifle. Slung over the shoulder.

If he was carrying it in his arms, that is brandishing. But it was in a neutral position.

Sorry, carrying a loaded semiautomatic fire arm in a public space as far as I am concerned is brandishing.

403 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:50:29am

re: #381 Charles

It's not a "theory." The links to white supremacist sites are ON THEIR WEBSITE. This is known as a "fact."

semi sarc:

In the scientific sense it is a theory. It is a hypothesis verified by evidence.

404 Kragar  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:50:33am

re: #392 Lee Coller

Concealed carry with an AR-15?

Actually, I really was just happy to be there.

405 Digital Display  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:50:48am

Robert Novak has passed away
RIP

406 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:50:53am

re: #359 Syrah

It's a fine point of semantics and legal language. If a weapon is holstered, it is not being "brandished". It is only when it is un-holstered and at the read is it being brandished. If it is pointed at someone-- then the owner has committed an "assault".

The gentleman with the AR-15 on a sling at the ready, arguably, was brandishing the weapon. Again, these people might have been well withing their rights and the law of AZ as it allows such things. It certainly is not smart and it certainly does not aid in their cause to be depicted as heavily armed mouth-breathing loonies.

407 Russkilitlover  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:50:54am

re: #378 Sharmuta

They do have an end game in mind- they think they're going to restore the republic to its "original intent".

That's not an endgame. Nihilists and anarchists always use some grand generalization. I'm not dismissing them - they are damned dangerous. We've already had a Pres assassinated by an anarchist - William McKinley.

408 idioma  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:51:17am

When you abuse your rights in such a foolish manner, it is the rest of us that will pay. As a gun owner, I am outraged by this behavior. If this continues, I will not be surprised in the least when my own gun rights are pinned down by even stronger legislation and regulation.

"Hear our voice! Hear our voice! Hear our voice!"

Yeah, in November 2008, our voices were heard, and we elected Obama and put the Democrats in power. That my not be your voice but it is the voice of the people. Obama did not hide the fact that health care reform was a high priority if elected. If "the people" did not want this, they would have voted differently.

Having a gun and a big mouth, or dressing up in a pink costume and holding signs doesn't make your vote count more than mine. . A quiet majority went to the polls and decided this country's course for the next two years. Don't like it? "Be heard" in 2010, that's your next chance.

Freedom of speech does not cover shouting obscenities to school children at recess or screaming "fire!" in a crowded theatre; and the Second Amendment comes with a lot of responsibility, and respect.

Don't abuse it.

Youtube Video
409 JEA62  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:51:21am

re: #392 Lee Coller

What, a simpe handgun isnt good enough? Exactly why would someone need to carry an assault rifle in public?

410 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:51:22am

These guys want attention, and they want a negative reaction. That's why they did this. Like most of the miserable mewling pukes who make up these nutball outfits they thrive on attention, good or bad.

411 Locker  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:51:25am

re: #392 Lee Coller

Concealed carry with an AR-15?

Hehe, well, I'm sure I could conceal one if I had to... rain coat, duffle bag, etc. Basically I thought he was saying only an unconcealed gun is intimidating but later I believe he was comparing wearing on shoulder to like holding it in a menacing manner.

If I saw a rifle on someone's shoulder I'd be intimidated. If I saw them pointing it at me I'd be way more than intimidated, I'd be hitting the ground, rolling and running.

412 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:51:36am

re: #400 buzzsawmonkey

Huh? You think trying to actually understand the nature and extent of a threat instead of panicmongering is "relativism?"

When you're trying to do it by contrasting it to against another group, yes.

413 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:51:51am

re: #383 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Someone here needs to be asked ... "might carrying a loaded AR-15 just because one can be a triffle immature?"

/extreme sarc re: "triffle"

Unless you are in combat, I can't think of a reason to carry a rifle loaded. I don't load unless I'm on the range and on the line with the range hot, or if hunting setting up a shot. I certainly wouldn't walk around with a mag in receiver.

414 califleftyb  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:52:01am

re: #389 Thanos

This slippery slope business has to stop somewhere. The idea that all rights are absolute and never ending may be theoretically attractive but totally inapplicable in the real world.

415 tradewind  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:52:04am

re: #381 Charles

It was pretty sickening on MSNBC this morning, though. The commentators linked everything that was being protested, every discontented citizen, with the fact that Obama is African American. That was it, nothing more to theorize, the citizens are ticked that the nation elected a black president.
Idiots.

416 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:52:04am

re: #379 The False God

But it's not illegal. And it wasn't brandishing.

That was the safest way to carry a rifle. Slung over the shoulder.

If he was carrying it in his arms, that is brandishing. But it was in a neutral position.

What, in a holster?!?

/oy

417 The False God  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:52:11am

re: #387 Danny

It's not possible to conceal-carry a rifle, but it's legal in Arizona to carry one. Therefore, slung over the shoulder is not "brandishing," as it is a neutral position. Brandishing requires movement of the weapon un-holstered or an overtly aggressive intent stated to use it.

He didn't do either, that I saw. It's not illegal. And it's not legally intimidation. Nor do I think it is, either.

What's intimidating is his abject stupidity in being in an organization like he is.

418 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:52:40am

re: #399 reine.de.tout


Kinda hard to hide an ar15

Are you happy to see me or is that an AR-15 in your pants?

*ducks*

419 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:53:02am

re: #374 Locker

The gentleman in question did not have had his weapon in a sling over his shoulder; it was on a sling at his hip and at the ready.

420 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:53:05am

re: #414 califleftyb

This slippery slope business has to stop somewhere. The idea that all rights are absolute and never ending may be theoretically attractive but totally inapplicable in the real world.

It did stop somewhere, as noted upthread they would not have been allowed to take their guns into the event.

421 Locker  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:53:37am

re: #413 jcm

Unless you are in combat, I can't think of a reason to carry a rifle loaded. I don't load unless I'm on the range and on the line with the range hot, or if hunting setting up a shot. I certainly wouldn't walk around with a mag in receiver.

Me either. I spent a year in combat and we weren't allowed to load a magazine with live rounds unless we were on an Op or engaged. We did NOT walk around the theater with a loaded mag in the clip unless we wanted a quick court martial. I'm sure some folks probably did but but they were breaking regs.

422 theheat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:53:38am

re: #381 Charles

Possibly a guy that thinks "redneck" shouldn't be an exclusive club for white people, sorta like girls wanting to ioin the boy scouts.

423 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:53:47am

re: #400 buzzsawmonkey

Huh? You think trying to actually understand the nature and extent of a threat instead of panicmongering is "relativism?"

And who, exactly, is "panicmongering"?

424 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:54:10am
425 Steve  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:54:21am

re: #286 calcajun

OT-- Looks like Farve will sign with the Vikings.

Sigh.

So, does he get a boat and will the vikings attack Paris again?

426 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:54:35am

re: #409 JEA62

Insecurity?

427 albusteve  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:54:38am

re: #389 Thanos

I wouldn't agree to making it illegal, that's a slippery slope, keep in mind they were on public streets. It's kind of like the nazis marching in Skokie. I support the right to do so, but I certainly don't support the neonazi nutballs who were trying to . Making it illegal is exactly why this provocative demonstration was made, they want a reaction like that.

whatever 'near the POTUS' means...I didn't follow the story too close...it seems reasonable to regulate how close you can get before you disarm...people like this are not going to self regulate...this is far from a concealed pistol at a town hall and it's only going to get worse somehow...imo

428 Danny  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:54:42am

re: #417 The False God

Good point. Either way, the intent was clearly intimidation, though.

429 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:54:47am

re: #396 JHW

Kilgore, do you have any info if there is still a militia movement as such? The last I can remember them is from several years ago, the old Michigan Militia and such, but haven't heard of them lately, although that could be ignorance on my part.

Not really. They are very loosely organized but I see mentions of the Freeman Militias and the Sovereign Citizens Movement becoming more common. These were originally anti-tax militias so the Tea Party thing brought them back into relevance. Also the Oath Keepers show up at Paulian events and Tea Parties because of their Constitutional fundamentalism and anti-government opinions.

430 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:54:52am

re: #305 calcajun

You forget that Al Capone was also an immensely popular figure. So was John Gotti for a while. Despite their notoriety, they were still criminals-- just like the Panthers. Only the Panthers criminal behavior was not mentioned as it would not serve to further the political end.

These loonies aren't criminals (at least I am assuming none of those arms were automatic weapons). But their stance and attitude only serves to make people scared-- and when people are scared, the government must then do something to relieve that fear. These twits are damaging the Second Amendment.

They're nuts. Plain and simple. If any of them had had an automatic weapon they would have been arrested in no time flat. Automatics are illegal and have been since Capone's days. BATF will confirm this.

431 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:55:02am

re: #355 Charles

Are you nuts? You're seriously going to argue that there's nothing intimidating about showing up to a political rally with a loaded AR15?

Good freaking grief.

I remember the first time the orthodox Lenninist physics collective tried to instill proper doctrine about AGW on the general scientific community at an APS meeting in 1989...

All of those people who did not understand the party's interpretation of the data started making all sorts of complaints. Then Dr. Hansen had four of his graduate students chamber a round in their Kalishnikovs...

Those evil capitalist physicists understood full well that they had to see things our way...

432 Pianobuff  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:55:28am

OT:

Official: Iran Ready for Nuclear Talks With West

A senior Iranian official said Tuesday that Tehran was ready for negotiations with the West over its disputed nuclear program based on mutual respect and without preconditions, state television reported.

"Talks without preconditions is Iran's main stance in negotiations on the nuclear issue," Iran's envoy to the U.N. nuclear agency watchdog, Ali Asghar Soltanieh, said, according to Reuters.

"Soltanieh announced Iran's readiness to take part in any negotiations with the West based on mutual respect," the state TV report said.

Iranian officials have made similar statements in the past about possible discussions on Tehran's nuclear activities, while vowing not to back down in the standoff with the West... (more at the link)

433 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:55:36am

re: #422 theheat

Possibly a guy that thinks "redneck" shouldn't be an exclusive club for white people, sorta like girls wanting to ioin the boy scouts.

There are plenty of cases of African Americans associating with white supremacists, Jews associating with antisemites, etc. Unfortunately this is not that unusual of a phenomenon.

And it is definitely NOT any kind of "proof" that this group of lunatics isn't connected with white supremacists.

434 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:55:42am

re: #418 jcm

Ah, it is an AR-15. Man, that is some concealed carry law you have there.

435 califleftyb  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:55:46am

re: #420 Thanos
I bit too late for my tastes. Assault weapons should be in the hands of the "militia" not individuals.

436 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:55:47am

re: #425 Steve

So, does he get a boat and will the vikings attack Paris again?

[Link: users.wolfcrews.com...]

437 tradewind  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:55:58am

Why is this even an argument? It's S T U P I D. No one with any sense carries a gun to a political rally.
Maybe that is their crime. Criminal stupidity.

438 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:56:07am

re: #422 theheat

Possibly a guy that thinks "redneck" shouldn't be an exclusive club for white people, sorta like girls wanting to ioin the boy scouts.

"Hey, why is everybody putting on white sheets? Guys?"

/

439 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:56:19am

re: #396 JHW

Kilgore, do you have any info if there is still a militia movement as such? The last I can remember them is from several years ago, the old Michigan Militia and such, but haven't heard of them lately, although that could be ignorance on my part.

SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

440 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:56:36am

re: #437 tradewind

Why is this even an argument? It's S T U P I D. No one with any sense carries a gun to a political rally.
Maybe that is their crime. Criminal stupidity.

Perhaps that is why they are so scared of Eugenics... After all three generations of morons...

441 JHW  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:56:54am

re: #429 Killgore Trout

Thanks, I guess the key point now is very loosely organized, but that appears to be changing a bit.

442 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:56:58am

re: #437 tradewind

Why is this even an argument? It's S T U P I D. No one with any sense carries a gun to a political rally.
Maybe that is their crime. Criminal stupidity.

It's an argument because there are a whole lot of people on the right who are openly supporting this kind of behavior.

443 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:57:05am

re: #413 jcm

Unless you are in combat, I can't think of a reason to carry a rifle loaded. I don't load unless I'm on the range and on the line with the range hot, or if hunting setting up a shot. I certainly wouldn't walk around with a mag in receiver.

Absolutely.

Might they be carrying their rifles loaded because, at a subconscious level, they feel their guns aren't?

444 Pianobuff  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:57:05am

re: #433 Charles

There are plenty of cases of African Americans associating with white supremacists, Jews associating with antisemites, etc. Unfortunately this is not that unusual of a phenomenon.

And it is definitely NOT any kind of "proof" that this group of lunatics isn't connected with white supremacists.

Where do you classify Rev. Manning, out of curiosity?

445 MandyManners  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:57:30am

Like a lizard on a window pane.


Youtube Video
446 Coracle  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:57:56am

re: #427 albusteve

whatever 'near the POTUS' means...I didn't follow the story too close...it seems reasonable to regulate how close you can get before you disarm...people like this are not going to self regulate...this is far from a concealed pistol at a town hall and it's only going to get worse somehow...imo

How about 3 times the standard accuracy range of the weapon in question. That'd be a good starting point.

447 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:58:07am

re: #430 Eowyn2

They're nuts. Plain and simple. If any of them had had an automatic weapon they would have been arrested in no time flat. Automatics are illegal and have been since Capone's days. BATF will confirm this.

Full auto is legal in AZ, they have machine gun shoots down there.

448 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:58:17am

re: #437 tradewind

Why is this even an argument? It's S T U P I D. No one with any sense carries a gun to a political rally.
Maybe that is their crime. Criminal stupidity.

No one ever accused these idiots of having sense.

449 tradewind  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:58:17am

re: #440 LudwigVanQuixote

Sorry, I don't like the idea of government tinkering with population profiles either. And I don't think it's entirely a myth that there are those who think it's a good idea.
But carrying a gun isn't going to have any effect on that particular problem.

450 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:58:18am

It's times like this I wish I liked Popcorn

Ah well ,,, I have a bag of Reeses Mini Cups here,, that'll do!

451 Lee Coller  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:58:31am

re: #430 Eowyn2

They're nuts. Plain and simple. If any of them had had an automatic weapon they would have been arrested in no time flat. Automatics are illegal and have been since Capone's days. BATF will confirm this.

That's not quite true. One can legally own an automatic weapon, you need a NFA license from the BATF as well as a criminal background check (and some other stuff).

I'm not sure what the rules are about carrying one in public.

452 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:58:32am

re: #435 califleftyb

I bit too late for my tastes. Assault weapons should be in the hands of the "militia" not individuals.

Who is the militia?

453 theheat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:58:34am

re: #438 Ward Cleaver

Also a card-carrying member of Turkeys for Thanksgiving.

454 JHW  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:58:38am

re: #439 Charles

Thanks Charles, that's what I was looking for.

455 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:59:01am

re: #430 Eowyn2

It is possible to own an automatic weapon. You have to have the proper license and be registered. There are numbers of people who legally own them-- anywhere from a Maxim Gun (no--it has nothing to do with the magazine) to Uzis. It's not easy, but it is possible.

Now, if someone had set up on the street with a Vickers .303 or a Ma-deuce, then the media would have really sat up and taken notice.///

456 tradewind  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:59:10am

re: #450 sattv4u2

Just the same, only different.
:)

457 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:59:35am

re: #443 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Absolutely.

Might they be carrying their rifles loaded because, at a subconscious level, they feel their guns aren't?

The rifle wasn't loaded, but he had a loaded mag in his pocket. The pistols were loaded, this per the forums.

458 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:59:51am

Because somebody was wondering if the GOP obsession with Obama conspiracy nuttiness was worse than the Dem's obsessions with Bush conspiracy nuttiness...

36% of Americans Believe 9/11 Was an Inside Job (Poll from 2006)

Sixteen percent said it's "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that "the collapse of the twin towers in New York was aided by explosives secretly planted in the two buildings."

Twelve percent suspect the Pentagon was struck by a military cruise missile in 2001 rather than by an airliner captured by terrorists.

The level of suspicion of U.S. official involvement in a 9/11 conspiracy was only slightly behind the 40 percent who suspect "officials in the federal government were directly responsible for the assassination of President Kennedy" and the 38 percent who believe "the federal government is withholding proof of the existence of intelligent life from other planets."

The poll found that a majority of young adults give at least some credence to a 9/11 conspiracy compared to less than a fourth of people 65 or older. Members of racial and ethnic minorities, people with only a high school education and Democrats were especially likely to suspect federal involvement in 9/11.


Democrats had the crazy real bad. I will also hazard to guess, I sizable number of people now in the Nirther, Sekrit Muslim, or other Obama Conspiracy Camp were a few years ago in the 9-11 Twoofer, Haliburton-Bilderburger-Zionist Conspiracy Camp. Nuttiness knows no bounds.

459 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 10:59:53am

re: #451 Lee Coller

That's not quite true. One can legally own an automatic weapon, you need a NFA license from the BATF as well as a criminal background check (and some other stuff).

I'm not sure what the rules are about carrying one in public.

I'm pretty sure carrying a fully automatic weapon onto public property will get your BATF license quickly revoked.

460 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:00:14am

re: #449 tradewind

Sorry, I don't like the idea of government tinkering with population profiles either. And I don't think it's entirely a myth that there are those who think it's a good idea.
But carrying a gun isn't going to have any effect on that particular problem.

I hate the idea too, but if someone were going to make a case that some folks would be better off not continuing the crazy to future generations, for the greater good, showing fools like these would make a strong starting point.

461 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:00:58am

re: #460 LudwigVanQuixote

I hate the idea too, but if someone were going to make a case that some folks would be better off not continuing the crazy to future generations, for the greater good, showing fools like these would make a strong starting point.

This assumes that stupidity is genetic. Personally, I think of it more like a communicable disease...

462 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:01:12am

re: #332 Sharmuta

I agree completely, and I'll go further. The people brandishing these weapons WANT a revolution, they want a civil war. It wouldn't just be riots. Both "sides" would snap and the desired war would be upon us.

I disagree. They are a bunch of people in adult bodies who still wish to be noticed and 'respected' and they currently have the opportunity to do both. I would like to see their record regarding the Bush years. I have a suspicion that they were protesting outside Bush events as well but the press didn't cover it. There were many truthers protesting around the country for four years. I find it difficult to believe that they have just started to carry weapons.

463 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:01:58am

Nobody dinged the thread down yet, which I was expecting

464 tradewind  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:02:11am

Extreme politics can make extremely weird bedfellows... remember Crawford, when Cindy Sheehan and David Duke were both hanging out at Camp Casey?

465 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:02:20am

re: #455 calcajun

It is possible to own an automatic weapon. You have to have the proper license and be registered. There are numbers of people who legally own them-- anywhere from a Maxim Gun (no--it has nothing to do with the magazine) to Uzis. It's not easy, but it is possible.

Now, if someone had set up on the street with a Vickers .303 or a Ma-deuce, then the media would have really sat up and taken notice.///

Tow this around...

Youtube Video
466 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:02:51am

re: #457 Thanos

The rifle wasn't loaded, but he had a loaded mag in his pocket. The pistols were loaded, this per the forums.

:D ... that was a back-at-ya to JCM. Up-thread he'd come at me with the old boot camp wisecrack about "This is my rifle, this is my gun."

/but the info is nevertheless appreciated

467 MandyManners  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:02:52am

re: #453 theheat

Also a card-carrying member of Turkeys for Thanksgiving.

Pigs for Christmas!

Lambs for Easter!

468 tradewind  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:02:53am

re: #458 Kenneth

That's the kind of poll that will always have a different result depending on exactly how the question is asked and who is answering.

469 Athos  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:03:39am

re: #464 tradewind

Not too surprising as Momma Moonbat and Lew Rockwell were (are?) an item.

470 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:03:45am

re: #466 pre-Boomer Marine brat

:D ... that was a back-at-ya to JCM. Up-thread he'd come at me with the old boot camp wisecrack about "This is my rifle, this is my gun."

/but the info is nevertheless appreciated

ahhh I remember that one ...

471 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:03:46am

re: #439 Charles

SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

Excellent article. We should all brush up on these guys. I get the feeling we're going to be seeing more of them.

472 MandyManners  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:03:48am

re: #462 Eowyn2

I disagree. They are a bunch of people in adult bodies who still wish to be noticed and 'respected' and they currently have the opportunity to do both. I would like to see their record regarding the Bush years. I have a suspicion that they were protesting outside Bush events as well but the press didn't cover it. There were many truthers protesting around the country for four years. I find it difficult to believe that they have just started to carry weapons.


Alex Jones and David Icke certainly were anti-Bush.

473 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:04:07am

re: #458 Kenneth

Thanks for the info. The nirther rate is higher.

474 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:04:07am

re: #433 Charles

There are plenty of cases of African Americans associating with white supremacists, Jews associating with antisemites, etc. Unfortunately this is not that unusual of a phenomenon.

And it is definitely NOT any kind of "proof" that this group of lunatics isn't connected with white supremacists.

cats and dogs, living together
/sorry, it was begging to be said.

475 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:04:15am

re: #465 jcm

That'll keep the neighbor's dog off the lawn.

476 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:04:20am

re: #472 MandyManners

Alex Jones and David Icke certainly were anti-Bush.

Alex Jones is anti-EVERYone. Except himself.

477 albusteve  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:04:26am

re: #471 Killgore Trout

Excellent article. We should all brush up on these guys. I get the feeling we're going to be seeing more of them.

yup...no doubt about it

478 Steve  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:04:37am

re: #417 The False God

It's not possible to conceal-carry a rifle, but it's legal in Arizona to carry one. Therefore, slung over the shoulder is not "brandishing," as it is a neutral position. Brandishing requires movement of the weapon un-holstered or an overtly aggressive intent stated to use it.

He didn't do either, that I saw. It's not illegal. And it's not legally intimidation. Nor do I think it is, either.

What's intimidating is his abject stupidity in being in an organization like he is.

Actually it is not hard to conceal an AR15.

Here we have an olympicarms. Scroll down to the last one.

479 tradewind  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:04:58am

re: #295 debutaunt

Who does Brett think he is anyway, Willie Herenton?

480 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:04:59am

re: #467 MandyManners

I'm planning on venison for Christmas and rabbit for Easter.

481 Kragar  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:05:00am

re: #467 MandyManners

Pigs for Christmas!

Lambs for Easter!

Blood for the Blood God!

Oops, sorry, got carried away

482 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:05:20am

re: #356 Locker

Interestingly enough that's one of the nicest things anyone has said to me here, so far, even if it was "tongue in cheek". Progressive is definitely preferable to socialist, troll, banned user in disguise and it validates my "I

No locker, this is not some love fete on my part. If you know anything about me from my posts on LGF, progressive is the left's polite word for socialist.

Be proud. :)

483 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:05:33am

re: #477 albusteve

I'm also working on understanding the Birch Society and Lyndon LaRouche but they make my brain hurt real bad.

484 tradewind  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:05:44am

re: #480 calcajun

Bambi and Thumper!

485 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:05:52am

re: #480 calcajun

Shades of George Blanda?

486 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:06:01am

re: #433 Charles

FATAH just elected a Jew (converted to Islam) to it's executive. So yes, a black man can be a member of a White Supremacists organization. For conspiracy theory nutters, cognitive dissonance is stock in trade.

487 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:06:14am

re: #462 Eowyn2

re: #473 Sharmuta

Thanks for the info. The nirther rate is higher.

Higher than 36%??

Only if you add the I DON"T KNOWS, which the 36% did NOT include in the troother poll

488 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:06:24am

re: #485 calcajun

Yum.

489 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:06:29am

re: #462 Eowyn2

I disagree. They are a bunch of people in adult bodies who still wish to be noticed and 'respected' and --they think--they currently have the opportunity to do both. I would like to see their record regarding the Bush years. I have a suspicion that they were protesting outside Bush events as well but the press didn't cover it. There were many truthers protesting around the country for four years. I find it difficult to believe that they have just started to carry weapons.


pimf

490 MandyManners  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:06:42am

re: #476 thedopefishlives

Alex Jones is anti-EVERYone. Except himself.

He certainly thinks very highly of himself.

491 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:07:10am

re: #471 Killgore Trout

Excellent article. We should all brush up on these guys. I get the feeling we're going to be seeing more of them.

If you look in the sidebar at some of the subsidiary sites you can track through a lot of militia groups all over.

492 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:07:27am
493 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:07:31am

Just ask yourselves, you apologists for this madness, what you would have said if disciples of Bill Ayers had shown up at a Bush rally with the same equipment, making the same statements.

Feel the hypocrisy?

494 tradewind  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:07:34am

re: #483 Killgore Trout

I'm also working on understanding the Birch Society and Lyndon LaRouche


Why on earth would you want to do that...

495 albusteve  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:08:07am

re: #483 Killgore Trout

I'm also working on understanding the Birch Society and Lyndon LaRouche but they make my brain hurt real bad.

the barn door is open...even you may not be able to keep up...this whole thing is giving me a very bad vibe...I don't see civil war, but certainly alot of deadly mayhem is probable

496 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:08:18am

re: #468 tradewind

That's the kind of poll that will always have a different result depending on exactly how the question is asked and who is answering.

Umm... by definition, polling gets different results depending on who is answering it. That's kind of the point. There were other subsequent polls which conformed that same, or worse, level of nuttiness out there.

497 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:08:31am

re: #483 Killgore Trout

re: #494 tradewind

Why on earth would you want to do that...

Because it feels so good when you STOP!

498 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:08:33am

re: #490 MandyManners

He certainly thinks very highly of himself.

Making up for the fact that nobody else does, probably. Even his "buddy" Dylan Avery (of Loose Change infamy) got in a big fight with him over - you guessed it - money.

499 MandyManners  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:08:38am

re: #480 calcajun

I'm planning on venison for Christmas and rabbit for Easter.

Bambi and Thumper?

500 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:08:49am

re: #471 Killgore Trout

Excellent article. We should all brush up on these guys. I get the feeling we're going to be seeing more of them.

Like I told Shar a few days ago, SPLC is a less than honest broker of information.

There may be more militias forming, but we had the same thing in the 90's. And what happened? Not much.

Counter point for discussion.

Conservative Groups Dismiss Report on Rise of Militias

Right-leaning groups say the evidence of a distinct rise in militia-type activity is spotty and that the Southern Poverty Law Center is unfairly lumping isolated extremists in the same category as those who are protesting the administration's economic and social policies.
501 MandyManners  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:09:06am

re: #481 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Blood for the Blood God!

Oops, sorry, got carried away

Just a bit.

502 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:09:22am

re: #473 Sharmuta

Higher than 36 percent of the whole US population? I doubt it. Please put up a link.

503 MandyManners  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:09:38am

re: #484 tradewind

Bambi and Thumper!

GIT OUTTA' MAH HAID!

504 opnion  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:10:10am

re: #493 Cato the Elder

Just ask yourselves, you apologists for this madness, what you would have said if disciples of Bill Ayers had shown up at a Bush rally with the same equipment, making the same statements.

Feel the hypocrisy?

I have only one thing to say to you, Sarah Palin!

505 MandyManners  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:10:26am

re: #493 Cato the Elder

Just ask yourselves, you apologists for this madness, what you would have said if disciples of Bill Ayers had shown up at a Bush rally with the same equipment, making the same statements.

Feel the hypocrisy?

There are apologists here?

506 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:10:51am

re: #492 buzzsawmonkey

If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.

He's a legend that will last a lunchtime.

507 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:11:05am

re: #505 MandyManners

There are apologists here?

I don't know. There were on yesterday's thread. Plenty.

508 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:11:21am

re: #502 Kenneth

Higher than 36 percent of the whole US population? I doubt it. Please put up a link.

There was one last week of so that there was about 33% (or so) said Obama was NOt born in the USA, 33% (or so) said he was, and 33% (or so) said I DON'T KNOW''
The writer then extrapoklated that into 66% say he was NOT, only because the 33% of the I DON'T KNOWs were added to it

Why not add the I DON'T KNOWS to the he WAS born here ??

509 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:11:24am

re: #464 tradewind

Extreme politics can make extremely weird bedfellows... remember Crawford, when Cindy Sheehan and David Duke were both hanging out at Camp Casey?

Here's the owner of the Freedom's Phoenix website (linked by google cache at the top) interviewing Cindy Sheehan.

Youtube Video
510 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:11:27am

re: #480 calcajun

I recently discovered a great, if somewhat eccentric restaurant, where I had an elk chop for dinner. It was delicious.

511 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:11:36am

re: #499 MandyManners

Bambi and Thumper?

Cajun version of surf n'turf.

512 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:11:42am

re: #465 jcm

Tow this around...

[Video]

There was a fellow in my home town who was more than a little not right in the head. He got in trouble for trying to shoot ducks with an M-60.

In his home and barn, the police found, dozens of pistols, dozens of military rifles (M-16 A1 and A2, Kalishnikovs etc...) grenades, a M-2 and a German flame thrower.

My father knew the local police who arrested him. The police asked the man what all the firepower was for. He said "the Red Army." The police then said "O.K. maybe I can see that, but what is the flamethrower for?"

He said:

"In case they bring marshmellows."

My bottom line is that when I see farm boys with and anti air gun, I think of him. It is one thing to argue a right to keep and bear arms. It is another to forget that the people who want the most heavy hardware are rarely sane.

513 opnion  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:12:03am

re: #505 MandyManners

There are apologists here?

Yeah & they are all Sarah Palin.

514 MandyManners  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:12:19am

re: #504 opnion

I have only one thing to say to you, Sarah Palin!

Is his thigh tingling?

515 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:12:22am
516 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:12:26am

re: #508 sattv4u2

This is why I love statistics. "I don't know" or non-responses really play havoc with the numbers, and if you don't treat them just right, you'll wind up faceplanting.

517 theheat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:12:42am

re: #285 buzzsawmonkey

I don't know how large of a group they are, but the way they conduct themselves shows they're unhinged. It only takes a one crazed gunman to seriously fuck up someone's day.

Mr. Heat knows some peeps from his former workplace that are borderline nuts, with lots and lots of guns. We own a big chunk of property in the middle of nowhere, and they've been begging to go "play games" out there with their assorted assault rifles. Mr. Heat is so disconnected from what they represent, he thought it would be harmless to let those crazy redneck fucks turn the place into a shooting gallery "for fun". He thought it was just harmless male bonding.

Naturally, I had a fit-on-the-floor, and gave Mr. Heat the 60 second lowdown of what people like that represent. I'll be damned if a bunch of heavily armed separatist loonies are going to blast holes in our property (and leave their casings all over like a bunch of goddamned littering pigs) so they can have a group-fucking-orgasm.

I want nothing to do with these people, whether it's one, a hundred, or thousands.

518 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:12:43am

re: #508 sattv4u2

Was that a poll of the general population, or of a subset of the population, such as "registered Republicans"?

519 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:12:49am

re: #500 jcm

There may be more militias forming, but we had the same thing in the 90's. And what happened? Not much.


Oklahoma city, Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc.
I know conservative groups are obfuscating for these anti-government militias and in some cases even embracing them. Times have changed since the 80's; the internet, Tea Parties, Fox News and general acceptance of extremists in Republican circles leads me to believe that the new rise of the militias is going to be much more deadly and violent than it was in the 80's.

520 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:12:55am

re: #500 jcm

The militia/survivalist movement started in Carter days and was actually kicked off somewhat by the left and the club of rome report. It burgeoned during Reagan years based on the thought that there was going to war with the USSR, and reached full flower in early Clinton days. Some on the right actively egged it on, and turned it into a business. It's actively fed by doomcriers of all flavors.

521 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:12:56am

re: #506 calcajun

He's a legend that will last a lunchtime.

One thousand updings. I might even have to use that one sometime.

522 Wendya  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:13:04am

re: #11 Killgore Trout

...and then there's Heavily Armed and F'in Crazy. These people are paranoid loons. They are very dangerous.

There are a lot of armed people in this country who have beyond-fringe political positions. There are a lot of conspiracy freaks. There are people who latch onto every odd cause imaginable. There are people who believe the government engineered AIDS and who believe"Morgellons" is a disease caused by nanites. They believe aliens live in caverns beneath Dulce NM. They believe the every President is part of the New World Order. We even have people who even believe Obama isn't going to raise any of their taxes.

As long as they don't act out on their looniness against the government or citizens, they can be as crazy as they want. Given the number of conspiracy freaks of every flavor world wide, I think it's safe to say the vast majority are no threat. They can posture all they want as long as long as they take no action. That's part of what makes this country so great.

523 Dianna  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:13:08am

re: #483 Killgore Trout

I'm also working on understanding the Birch Society and Lyndon LaRouche but they make my brain hurt real bad.

Don't, KT. I can sort-of grasp the Birchers. But LaRouche...oh, dear. There's no logic.

524 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:13:20am

re: #510 Kenneth

I recently discovered a great, if somewhat eccentric restaurant, where I had an elk chop for dinner. It was delicious.

Teds (Turners) Montana Grills feature BISON


DEEE Licious!

[Link: www.tedsmontanagrill.com...]

525 MandyManners  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:13:23am

re: #492 buzzsawmonkey

If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.

Is that you, Mom?

526 MandyManners  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:14:01am

re: #498 thedopefishlives

Making up for the fact that nobody else does, probably. Even his "buddy" Dylan Avery (of Loose Change infamy) got in a big fight with him over - you guessed it - money.

Bitch-slap scuffle?

527 opnion  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:14:06am

re: #514 MandyManners

Is his thigh tingling?

Probably, I wonder if he has friended her on her Facebook.

528 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:14:13am

re: #526 MandyManners

Bitch-slap scuffle?

Epic whine-fest.

529 JHW  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:14:26am

Addressing the point Kenneth made in #486 Black Neo-Confederates, repeating the false claim, (easily debunked via Google search) that 80,000 black men served as Confederate soldiers. I have also seen a photo used by these groups, which was originally a photo of an African-American Union Army regiment, altered to show Confederate uniforms instead.

530 albusteve  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:14:37am

re: #510 Kenneth

I recently discovered a great, if somewhat eccentric restaurant, where I had an elk chop for dinner. It was delicious.

elk is awsome...really a delicacy...I had the pleasure to eat the tenderloin the one time I ate it...people in NM go crazy over elk

531 Steve  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:14:40am

Okay, I have see here that some people are referring to loaded guns. I have watched the video several times (getting extremely nauseous) and have missed the portion that states that the guns are loaded.
Yes they have their magazines in and the first rule of handling any gun is to assume that it is loaded. So where does it show/say in the video that the guns are loaded.

I am not trying to cause problems but am curious as to why some people hear are referring to the guns as loaded.

And, Open carry is the stupidest thing anyone can do.

532 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:14:42am

re: #518 Kenneth

Was that a poll of the general population, or of a subset of the population, such as "registered Republicans"?

I don't recall. I do remember that, as I stated, the I DON'T KNOWS were "automatically" morphed into the "He's not born here" column so the poster could make his/her point

533 MandyManners  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:14:51am

UNCLE.

534 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:14:51am

Also keep in mind part of the 36% of troofers are ron paul nuts.

It's not all leftists.

535 ~Fianna  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:15:10am

re: #500 jcm

Yeah, I guess you're right, not much happened with those 90s millitials... but only if you count Oklahoma City and the dead children and civilians from that event as "not much".

bleh. the crazy is bad these days.

536 Kobalt  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:15:13am

re: #366 donk1100

OH NO!! You better start agreeing with everyone else here or you will get your SASSY comments downvoted here again just like I did! OH NOES!!!

537 Danny  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:15:29am

re: #531 Steve

they posted that info on their web site

538 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:15:54am

re: #512 LudwigVanQuixote

Not all of them. Many are serious collectors and preservationists. It takes a lot of work and love to take a hunk of junk and restore it to its original working order. Some guys do it with cars, others with planes, and others with firearms. BTW, considering that .50 ammo is about a buck a round, that video shows those guys firing off several hundred dollars in a few seconds. Now, that is a little nuts.

539 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:16:01am

re: #524 sattv4u2

Yes, bison is good. This place had bison, elk, venison, lamb, beef, pork, musk ox, duck, caribou and several species of fish. Meat Mecca!

540 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:16:19am

re: #512 LudwigVanQuixote

There was a fellow in my home town who was more than a little not right in the head. He got in trouble for trying to shoot ducks with an M-60.

In his home and barn, the police found, dozens of pistols, dozens of military rifles (M-16 A1 and A2, Kalishnikovs etc...) grenades, a M-2 and a German flame thrower.

My father knew the local police who arrested him. The police asked the man what all the firepower was for. He said "the Red Army." The police then said "O.K. maybe I can see that, but what is the flamethrower for?"

He said:

"In case they bring marshmellows."

My bottom line is that when I see farm boys with and anti air gun, I think of him. It is one thing to argue a right to keep and bear arms. It is another to forget that the people who want the most heavy hardware are rarely sane.

Agree to a point...

Federal licensing requirements are pretty steep.

Recent bust in Bellevue, WA included full auto, grenades, and C-4.

The rarely sane don't bring their toys for anyone and everyone to see and shows, collectors do...

541 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:16:30am

re: #515 buzzsawmonkey

credit goes to Eric idle.

542 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:17:16am

re: #490 MandyManners

He certainly thinks very highly of himself.

Paranoia and narcissism are often co-morbid.

543 Lincolntf  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:17:32am

re: #538 calcajun

"BTW, considering that .50 ammo is about a buck a round, that video shows those guys firing off several hundred dollars in a few seconds. Now, that is a little nuts."

Big Ammo is screwing us!

544 idioma  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:18:32am

re: #379 The False God

But it's not illegal. And it wasn't brandishing.

That was the safest way to carry a rifle. Slung over the shoulder.

If he was carrying it in his arms, that is brandishing. But it was in a neutral position.

If you really believe that, why not sling a rifle on your shoulder and take a stroll toward a military installation entry point. make sure the sentry gets a good look at that rifle too.

Then you'll see how "neutral" a rifle can be. In fact, you might be neutralized entirely.

545 Coracle  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:18:43am

re: #543 Lincolntf

Big Ammo is screwing us!

Now that's funny. I don't care who you are.

546 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:18:46am

re: #447 jcm

Full auto is legal in AZ, they have machine gun shoots down there.

a number of years ago, I called the BATF about automatic weapons (there was a move in congress regarding making them illegal) According to the BATF, they were outlawed in 34. He may have been speaking regarding the average person but he didn't say there were exceptions so I am just going by what he said. I imagine that the full autos which are legal in Az require vigorous background checks and approval by more than one gvmt agency.

547 Steve  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:18:56am

re: #537 Danny

they posted that info on their web site

I did not check out their website, having enough trouble watching the video.

Sorry.

548 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:19:07am

re: #539 Kenneth

Meat Mecca!

Yes, your new halal grocery!

549 Athos  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:19:16am

Excellent new post on Defending the Defensible regarding Alinsky tactics being used by the hard right - and the need to expose the loons on the hard right as well as those on the hard left -

The neo-Birchers that you see above are a major problem in the right, and have no real place in conservatism. Mr. Johnson does us a service by exposing them for who they are and letting us know that they do exist, and that they are a problem. If nothing is done, this problem will consume us, and let the Birchers and Alinskyites of the right rule the day. We need a new Buckley, not more Alinskys.

These people, while legally, undertook a highly provocative action in order to draw attention to themselves. That attention, given their beliefs, has to have ramifications. The ramifications have to been on their embracement of extreme looniness and that they represent nothing that the majority of us stand for...and because of this, they need to be exposed as the asshats they are.

550 theheat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:19:28am

re: #540 jcm

Recent bust in Bellevue, WA included full auto, grenades, and C-4.

Where'd you see that? I want to know who. Could be the same nutty bastards that wanted to go play war games on our property. Same locale.

551 Wendya  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:20:14am

re: #359 Syrah

They ARE brandishing their weapons.

They are making sure that people see them.

Brandishing has a specific legal definition. Since they were not arrested, they were not legally threatening anyone. It's stupid to openly carry a weapon like that in a crowd, particularly when emotions are running high. The fool with the AR could have been overwhelmed and disarmed which makes HIM responsible for whatever happens with his weapon. He was far more concerned about his "rights" than he is about his responsibilities, an unfortunate trait that's becoming increasingly prevalent in our society.

552 Wendya  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:20:52am

re: #523 Dianna

Don't, KT. I can sort-of grasp the Birchers. But LaRouche...oh, dear. There's no logic.

They just seem really angry all the time.

553 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:21:01am

re: #534 Sharmuta

That is true. There is a significant cross-over effect. I suspect Ron Paul's supporters like him not because the other GOP candidates aren't conservative enough for them, but because they aren't nutty enough for them. They are attracted to the paranoia and extremism-for-its-own-sake.

554 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:21:06am

re: #546 Eowyn2

Yes-- lots of licensing. You have to be a collector or a licensed dealer.

One day, I was at a local SoCal gun store when a guy walks in with an MG-42 on his shoulder. Heads turned in admiration-not fear.

555 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:21:30am

re: #538 calcajun

Not all of them. Many are serious collectors and preservationists. It takes a lot of work and love to take a hunk of junk and restore it to its original working order. Some guys do it with cars, others with planes, and others with firearms. BTW, considering that .50 ammo is about a buck a round, that video shows those guys firing off several hundred dollars in a few seconds. Now, that is a little nuts.

Look, I own an M1 Garand - and two very real swords. One of them is even pretty nice by Japanese standards. I get the idea of preserving history. I get the idea of developing skill with these things as a pursuit. I have a black belt, I was a fencing champion and I have studied kendo. However, please do not try to tell me that the bulk of the people with the heaviest hardware are also not very anti-government and very extreme in their politics.

Certainly don't try to tell me that a guy with grenades and a flamethrower in his barn, who was just waiting for the Red Army to show up in central Pennsylvania was thinking straight.

556 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:22:15am

re: #519 Killgore Trout

Oklahoma city, Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc.
I know conservative groups are obfuscating for these anti-government militias and in some cases even embracing them. Times have changed since the 80's; the internet, Tea Parties, Fox News and general acceptance of extremists in Republican circles leads me to believe that the new rise of the militias is going to be much more deadly and violent than it was in the 80's.

OKC was two guys, a third if your a conspiracy nut. Ruby ridge wasn't a militia, it was a family-o-nuts, and the feds screwed up like at Waco.

I will agree the rhetoric is more heated now, but is the over reach by Obama / Reid / Pelosi.

We heard all about the "threat" of militias in the 90s. And what came of it? Not much. I'm not going to get my knickers in twist unless something more develops.

SPLC makes money off of race baiting, just like Jesse Jackson.

557 Pianobuff  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:22:16am

re: #534 Sharmuta

Also keep in mind part of the 36% of troofers are ron paul nuts.

It's not all leftists.

Of course not...and Dems like Larry Johnson, Berg and their Dem followers including PUMAs have concerns over Obama's citizenship, too so that knife cuts both ways. My original point was that truthers were not a fringe of the Dem population, and I think it holds up pretty well.

558 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:22:38am

re: #553 Kenneth

That is true. There is a significant cross-over effect. I suspect Ron Paul's supporters like him not because the other GOP candidates aren't conservative enough for them, but because they aren't nutty enough for them. They are attracted to the paranoia and extremism-for-its-own-sake.

Quite possible. He has other odious positions they might be attracted to as well.

559 Steve  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:22:54am

re: #538 calcajun

Not all of them. Many are serious collectors and preservationists. It takes a lot of work and love to take a hunk of junk and restore it to its original working order. Some guys do it with cars, others with planes, and others with firearms. BTW, considering that .50 ammo is about a buck a round, that video shows those guys firing off several hundred dollars in a few seconds. Now, that is a little nuts.

At a buck a round that is extremely cheap. My 6.8spc is running about that.

Should be more like 2.95 to 3.99 a round.

BMGammo

560 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:22:57am
561 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:24:08am

re: #529 JHW

Addressing the point Kenneth made in #486 Black Neo-Confederates, repeating the false claim, (easily debunked via Google search) that 80,000 black men served as Confederate soldiers. I have also seen a photo used by these groups, which was originally a photo of an African-American Union Army regiment, altered to show Confederate uniforms instead.

What the heck are you talking about?

I made no such claim about black Confederate soldiers.

Do you want to rephrase your post?

562 JohnnyReb  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:24:26am

re: #557 Pianobuff

Of course not...and Dems like Larry Johnson, Berg and their Dem followers including PUMAs have concerns over Obama's citizenship, too so that knife cuts both ways. My original point was that truthers were not a fringe of the Dem population, and I think it holds up pretty well.

IIRC the original poll had 20% of the people who voted for Obama thinking he might not have been born in the US. I think the question asked was flawed but I can't remember how it was worded and I can't find the link to the poll.

563 tradewind  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:25:02am

re: #503 MandyManners

Resistance is futile when the module assumes command.
///

564 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:26:16am

re: #550 theheat

Where'd you see that? I want to know who. Could be the same nutty bastards that wanted to go play war games on our property. Same locale.

Here's the story...

Man gets four years in prison for stockpiling weapons in Bellevue

565 JHW  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:26:33am

re: #561 Kenneth

Yes I'll rephrase Kenneth, sorry. The point I was trying to make was in agreement with the substance of your post that people could join groups not in their interest. I apologize for the clumsy phrasing.

566 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:26:50am

re: #493 Cato the Elder

Just ask yourselves, you apologists for this madness, what you would have said if disciples of Bill Ayers had shown up at a Bush rally with the same equipment, making the same statements.

Feel the hypocrisy?

First off, saying that they have the right to bear arms does not imply that we are apologizing for the idiots. What we don't do is assume that these folks are 'pro-bush' but we know that the paulians were anything but pro-bush. The supporters of Bill Ayers were at every event bush did.

567 idioma  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:27:48am

re: #417 The False God

He didn't do either, that I saw. It's not illegal. And it's not legally intimidation. Nor do I think it is, either.

What's intimidating is his abject stupidity in being in an organization like he is.

No. It is completely irresponsible and provocative to carry a rifle at a "peaceful demonstration". Where do you draw the line? What if someone brought a truck full of fertilizer and diesel fuel to a "peaceful demonstration"? Would that still be a neutral position?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. This is America's Taliban, and I want you to acknowledge it. We elected our leaders in open and honest elections and these thugs, want to use a show of force to hijack democracy.

568 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:27:50am

re: #534 Sharmuta

Also keep in mind part of the 36% of troofers are ron paul nuts.

It's not all leftists.

Mr. 4409 has an article to that effect:

(Unseen Footage) Tower 7 blasted into rubble from NEW angle!
569 theheat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:28:03am

re: #560 buzzsawmonkey

In the meantime, it is appropriate to condemn their political philosophy, which seems unhinged, and their notions of political theater--while keeping in perspective the fact that they are, indeed, a fringe element.

Which is precisely why they are not welcome anywhere near me or my property. I cannot condone what they do, and I will not enable them, if given the opportunity.

They can be nuts someplace else. And they will.

570 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:28:04am

re: #555 LudwigVanQuixote

There are exceptions-- and kudos on the M-1-- I'm hunting for my own.

My neighbor growing up was former OSS (seriously) and he had a locker in his attic with his Thompson and (what he said) were live grenades. Now, at the time I thought this was cool, but as I grew and saw him descend into alcoholism, I became very worried about what he might do. Nothing ever came about, but your point is well taken.

OTOH, there are people that gather in AZ and other places to fire their automatic weapons--much in the same vein as car collectors or other aficionados. They are not nuts (for the most part) and they have to have the proper licenses and registration to display their weapons--I'm sure BAFTA is there to make sure.

In short-- there are gun nuts and then there are nuts with guns.

571 tradewind  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:28:09am

re: #566 Eowyn2


The supporters of Bill Ayers were at every event bush did.


/minus the ones who were still in jail or had blown themselves up/

572 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:28:44am

re: #559 Steve

I only know from a friend with a Barret.

573 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:28:53am

re: #553 Kenneth

That is true. There is a significant cross-over effect. I suspect Ron Paul's supporters like him not because the other GOP candidates aren't conservative enough for them, but because they aren't nutty enough for them. They are attracted to the paranoia and extremism-for-its-own-sake.

I can tell you from experience here in Atlanta,
not all Ron Paul supporters were/ are conservatives/ republicans. I drive thru a very large section in Atlanta daily that is very "liberal". On the same lawn with signs for the Democrat Senatorial, congressional, and Gerogia state candidates were ron Paul signs. Not one, not several ,, HUNDREDS

574 Athos  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:29:20am

re: #558 Sharmuta

Quite possible. He has other odious positions they might be attracted to as well.

It's pure populism designed to appeal to those who aren't happy / comfortable with their personal condition. The appeal to those is that they aren't the reason for those challenges - it's the 'greater' conspiracies that are preventing them from obtaining what they think is their due in terms of wealth, power, liberty, self-importance, etc. It's the conspiracies from the Fed Reserve, the Bilderbergers, the SPP, the Zionists, etc that are keeping them down...and in many ways not unlike the message that Hitler professed to gain power in Germany.

The links between the message of National Socialism, America Firsters, and others of that era and those of Laup Nor and his supporters is, IMHO, less than accidental...and equally wrong.

575 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:30:10am

re: #566 Eowyn2

The supporters of Bill Ayers were at every event bush did.

With guns?

576 SixDegrees  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:30:30am

re: #524 sattv4u2

Teds (Turners) Montana Grills feature BISON

DEEE Licious!

[Link: www.tedsmontanagrill.com...]

Bison is very good, and it's becoming more common. It's very similar to grass-fed beef. In fact, it pretty much is grass-fed beef, given that bison are all interbred with cattle except for the herds in Yellowstone and the Badlands. Leaner than corn-fed beef by a lot, to the point where it has less cholesterol than skinless chicken.

Still crazy expensive, but worth trying if you've never had it.

577 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:30:34am

re: #561 Kenneth

All I know of the subject is that some orderlies were put in Southern uniforms at the very end of the war. None were ever front line troops.

578 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:30:34am

re: #493 Cato the Elder

Just ask yourselves, you apologists for this madness, what you would have said if disciples of Bill Ayers had shown up at a Bush rally with the same equipment, making the same statements.

Feel the hypocrisy?

But Cato, don't you get that Ayers is a commie who wants to bring down the government, while these loons are rightists who want to bring down the government?

Don't you see the difference?

It's not intimidation and reckless, disloyal, insane behavior if we do it!

I wish I were being sarcastic here, but many of the posters seem to actually think this way.

579 Flyovercountry  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:31:49am

Scarrier than that these morons are walking among us, is that they felt it appropriate to make a promotional video featuring their escapades. The Paul tards aren't a representation of conservative values. They are a shining example of crazy right meeting crazy left. My substantiation of this is Bill Maher endorsing his candidacy.

580 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:32:05am

re: #575 Cato the Elder

With guns?

Ayers and his friends actually for real blew shit up and killed people.

581 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:32:22am

re: #578 LudwigVanQuixote

No, the problem is that with Ayres and his ilk, they have a better chance of succeeding. These loonies will be rounded up in one fell swoop as soon as they fire the first shot.

582 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:32:24am

re: #570 calcajun

There are exceptions-- and kudos on the M-1-- I'm hunting for my own.

My neighbor growing up was former OSS (seriously) and he had a locker in his attic with his Thompson and (what he said) were live grenades. Now, at the time I thought this was cool, but as I grew and saw him descend into alcoholism, I became very worried about what he might do. Nothing ever came about, but your point is well taken.

OTOH, there are people that gather in AZ and other places to fire their automatic weapons--much in the same vein as car collectors or other aficionados. They are not nuts (for the most part) and they have to have the proper licenses and registration to display their weapons--I'm sure BAFTA is there to make sure.

In short-- there are gun nuts and then there are nuts with guns.

I hear your point. I really do. But the heavier the hardware (and not seeing anything unusual about it) the more chance that it is a nut with a gun.

583 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:32:39am

re: #523 Dianna

Don't, KT. I can sort-of grasp the Birchers. But LaRouche...oh, dear. There's no logic.

30 years ago the LaDouche people stopped me at an airport. They asked me a couple of questions regarding my political view (conservative before conservative was cool) and I agreed with the common sense statements they made so they gave me a few pamphlets to 'read on the plane' WOW. I kept them until I got off the plane then burned them in the fireplace. Those folks are down-right insane.

584 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:35:40am

re: #574 Athos

The links between the message of National Socialism, America Firsters, and others of that era and those of Laup Nor and his supporters is, IMHO, less than accidental...and equally wrong.

Absolutely it's not accidental- they've been taking lessons from the euro-fascists. The only real difference is paulbot's don't support Israel (not that the euro-fascists do).

585 Egregious Philbin  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:35:44am

As a native Arizonan and proud Phoenician, I want to apologize to the world for these Mo-tards. We have a libertarian party here that is made up of the biggest assholes in the state. They are led by a complete moonbat named Ernest Hancock and all I can say, as a conservative, is that I am sorry to share a state or even a species with these knuckledraggers.

I had a friend go to the dark side of conspiracies, he believes everything Alex Jones tells him, even when I soundly presented all the data necessary to debunk all conspiracies, but he is a very small minded, very angry person, who I expect will someday shoot up a shopping mall.

586 wiffersnapper  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:36:16am

Dude, where's my party?

587 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:37:45am

re: #582 LudwigVanQuixote

I understand. If I knew someone who owned automatics and was beginning to buy up lots of ammo, I, too, would be concerned. If they owned lots of sub-machine guns or machine pistols-- I'd be worried. But if they had a M1917 or a Vickers .303, or even an M-2, I would not be too concerned as the only way to conceal those is in a pill box or armored car.

I'd only caution against broad, sweeping characterizations.

BBIAB

588 SixDegrees  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:38:25am

re: #553 Kenneth

That is true. There is a significant cross-over effect. I suspect Ron Paul's supporters like him not because the other GOP candidates aren't conservative enough for them, but because they aren't nutty enough for them. They are attracted to the paranoia and extremism-for-its-own-sake.

Paul has gone way, way out of his way to cultivate connections with every fringe group in the country. He got caught taking money from Nazis in the last election cycle, and spends huge amounts of time pandering to them, UFO coverup groups, extreme fringe anti-tax groups, militias of all sorts, and quietly supports pretty much every conspiracy theory and faction that exists.

Perhaps not surprisingly, given recent events there, he represents a portion of Texas.

It would be worth the GOP's money and effort to ensure he's defeated in 2010; he's a harmful embarrassment to the party.

Frankly, a terminally rabid squirrel would be a better candidate.

589 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:38:50am

re: #577 calcajun

I said nothing on the topic whatsoever. JHW apologized for clumsy phrasing which erroneously suggested I had.

590 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:40:18am

re: #588 SixDegrees

Frankly, a terminally rabid squirrel would be a better candidate.


It failed in it's mission against Jimmy, it failed and won't get another chance.

591 CERDIP  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:40:52am

re: 121 LudwigVanQuixote


Let me explain... That rifle fires nato rounds that will penetrate all but really good body armor and it is absolutely not a toy. It is being used as a toy by an asshat who has no business owning a weapon.

There is no excuse whatsoever for this.

I'm going to say something wild here. These things are for grown-ups and children do not have the right to use grown-up things that are dangerous.

I'm in Canada where we do not have the right to keep and bear arms.

Could you please explain to me what the guy was doing that was so bad, specifically? The rifle can fire ball ammo, as my rifle can, it was slung over his shoulder, and I think I saw that the mag was removed (I might be mistaken about that). I didn't see him wave it around, threaten anybody with it, or anything...

592 theheat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:41:11am

re: #588 SixDegrees

Actually, I've done some reading on this, and squirrels (or any other animals) can't live terminally with rabies. It will kill them, although not as quickly as some people think. Meanwhile, they're extremely contagious.

593 Dianna  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:41:11am

re: #587 calcajun

?!

OK, so the fact that I just bought a can of .45 makes me a dangerous nut?

Damn, I just thought I was being economical!

594 SixDegrees  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:41:49am

re: #590 jcm

It failed in it's mission against Jimmy, it failed and won't get another chance.

True. We should have known he was too far gone when he insisted on the rabbit disguise.

595 SixDegrees  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:42:53am

re: #592 theheat

Actually, I've done some reading on this, and squirrels (or any other animals) can't live terminally with rabies. It will kill them, although not as quickly as some people think. Meanwhile, they're extremely contagious.

Isn't that what "terminal" means?

596 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:43:06am

re: #584 Sharmuta

Charles posted evidence of actual contact and co-ordination between the Paulians and the Euro-Fascists during the 2004 election.

597 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:43:40am

re: #593 Dianna

?!

OK, so the fact that I just bought a can of .45 makes me a dangerous nut?

Damn, I just thought I was being economical!

2000 rds of .40
1000 rds of 7.62 NATO
200 12ga shells in the safe.

I bought a year ago before the rush.

598 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:43:52am

re: #593 Dianna
Very frugal of you Dianna!!
Don't forget to save your brass dear!!
LOL

599 theheat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:44:52am

re: #564 jcm

Thanks for the linky. No, not the same peeps. The guy in the story was from Spokane, but had a storage unit in Bellevue. The crazies we know of live in Bellevue/Seattle.

But, who knows? Maybe he kept his shit on this side of the coast to share with the crazies in Bellevue.

600 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:45:02am

re: #567 idioma

No. It is completely irresponsible and provocative to carry a rifle at a "peaceful demonstration". Where do you draw the line? What if someone brought a truck full of fertilizer and diesel fuel to a "peaceful demonstration"? Would that still be a neutral position?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. This is America's Taliban, and I want you to acknowledge it. We elected our leaders in open and honest elections and these thugs, want to use a show of force to hijack democracy.


1) the Taliban WAS the Afghan GVMT pre-9/11
2) The Taliban is a well run group of terrorists using intimidation these people never dreamed of, can you really picture them raping your daughter to get you to allow them into your house. I mean, really, they wear J-Crew shorts.
3) This is the USA, not Afghanistan. We allow our citizens to bear arms. We have restricted the types of armaments they can bear legally.
4) Idiocy is not agains the law.
5) Ignorance is not against the law.
6) The Secret Service and AZ sheriffs most likely inspected all of the weapons prior to the demonstration.

7) If you are an anti-war protestor, you bring pictures of bombed out buildings, pictures of horribly mutilated children etc to the protest.
8) If you are protesting the desire of the government to reverse the 2nd amendment, you can show up with pictures of weapons but the the statement loses a lot.

Anyone who was intimidated by this fringe group of idiots is an idiot. Castrated bulls, every one of them.

601 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:46:03am

re: #599 theheat

Thanks for the linky. No, not the same peeps. The guy in the story was from Spokane, but had a storage unit in Bellevue. The crazies we know of live in Bellevue/Seattle.

But, who knows? Maybe he kept his shit on this side of the coast to share with the crazies in Bellevue.

I worked with a Paulbot type of crazy, I wouldn't go to the range with him, kinda crazy.

602 theheat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:47:42am

re: #595 SixDegrees

Some people mistake terminal as "forever", and not necessarily fatal, even when it relates to a disease.

/I have a lot of animals, and I hear this misused a lot.

Terminal means dirt nap, even if it takes awhile. That's how I usually explain it.

603 SixDegrees  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:50:23am
Could you please explain to me what the guy was doing that was so bad, specifically?

Someone mentally unstable carrying around a gun in plain site just outside a Presidential appearance is bad.

Proof that he's mentally unstable is plainly evident from the fact that he's a Ron Paul supporter who's carrying a gun around in plain site just outside a Presidential appearance.

I predict that you will now be unable to tell the difference between "bad" and "illegal."

604 theheat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:50:57am

re: #601 jcm

I haven't been to a range for eons, but I'm guessing they're experiencing a substantial growth in membership, given the political climate.

And if I suddenly showed up now, I might have some serious reservations about some of the people there.

605 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:51:05am

re: #596 Kenneth

Charles posted evidence of actual contact and co-ordination between the Paulians and the Euro-Fascists during the 2004 election.

You mean 2008? I remember. The euro-fascists have been networking here in the US for quite some time.

606 SixDegrees  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:52:08am

re: #602 theheat

Some people mistake terminal as "forever", and not necessarily fatal, even when it relates to a disease.

/I have a lot of animals, and I hear this misused a lot.

Terminal means dirt nap, even if it takes awhile. That's how I usually explain it.

Your definition is the same as mine - a condition leading inevitably to death.

Rabies is rarely not terminal.

607 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:55:02am

A couple months ago I had a conversation with a young man totally into the raving conspiracy scene. He dresses conservatively and works in a bank. He looked normal.

Then he told me, in utter seriousness, that Obama was actively and intentionally working to destroy the financial and economic system of America, because money is power, and when the people no longer have any money they will have no power and then Obama will round them all up into extermination camps.

I said, "I see. Now a couple years ago, you were telling me that Bush was going to round up all the people and put them into his Christo-fascist extermination camps? What happened?"

Without a pause, he responded, "Yes! And it's still going on! Now Obama is the puppet master!"

It's that crazy out there.

608 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:55:44am

re: #605 Sharmuta

Maybe that's what I mean. But yes, it was no co-incidence.

609 theheat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:56:28am

re: #607 Kenneth

Well, thank goodness Bush had those camps waiting and ready for Obama. Makes for an almost seamless transition.

//

610 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:58:14am

re: #600 Eowyn2

So you are supporting these guys and what they did?

611 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:58:42am

re: #593 Dianna

Nonono. If you own a .50 cal and begin buying ammo in large quantities, then maybe. I have two Mosin Nagants and buy surplus ammo in bulk in 440 round cases.

Now, where did you get the .45 ACP as that stuff is dear these days?

612 theheat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:59:15am

re: #606 SixDegrees

We have a squirrel that is so weird, and so aggressive, I thought he might have rabies a year or so ago, when he first happened by. He would follow me, threaten me, jump from tree to tree overhead to stalk me. He would even wait by my car to make little frantic squirrel moves at me. (Me, and no one else, I might add.)

It became obvious he wasn't rabid, since he's still around. more than a year later. Crazy, but not rabid.

613 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:59:18am

re: #607 Kenneth

Reminds me get some tin foil on the way home.

614 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:59:58am

re: #575 Cato the Elder

With guns?

Although most of the demonstrations I've seen pictures of wre in states where most guns are illegal (unless you are a celebrity) I would not put it past any of the crowd at Crawford to have guns ("this is Texas, my hairdresser owns a gun") If a tree falls in the forest and nobody sees it, did it really fall? If a man carries a gun to a rally and nobody reports on it, did it really happen? I put nothing past the mfmsm.

615 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:00:48pm

re: #604 theheat

I haven't been to a range for eons, but I'm guessing they're experiencing a substantial growth in membership, given the political climate.

And if I suddenly showed up now, I might have some serious reservations about some of the people there.

I was at Wade's in Bellevue last week, busy place. Arms were back on the shelf, ammo still short stocked. I haven't been up to Washington Arms Collectors show in a while (full disclosure; I am a member) but same story.

Washington is a shall issue for Concealed Pistol License (I've had one for years), 1 in 25 in WA have a CPL.

Some things to think about with people and firearms. The number of crimes committed with legally held arms is vanishingly small. Two recent incidents in WA, Haq shooting up the Jewish Center and the other dim bulb capping rounds at Seattle Center, both lied (a felony) on their CPL applications. Thats the only two case in WA. A while back the WA legislature wanted to close the "gun show loop hole" a senator asked the AG to find all crimes committed with gun show guns. ZERO in the past 15 years.

The folks going to Wade's and other gun shops are cleared, checked etc, same with WAC gun shows.

616 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:00:51pm

re: #589 Kenneth

OK.

617 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:01:19pm

re: #607 Kenneth

change banks.

618 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:05:31pm

re: #613 calcajun

Make that an industrial size roll of tin foil.

619 theheat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:05:34pm

re: #615 jcm

That's good to know. But, I wonder since the last election, if the crazy ratio of licensed and cleared gun owners has tipped unfavorably. There's really no way to know. I would certainly hope not.

620 idioma  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:06:19pm

re: #600 Eowyn2

1) the Taliban WAS the Afghan GVMT pre-9/11
2) The Taliban is a well run group of terrorists using intimidation these people never dreamed of, can you really picture them raping your daughter to get you to allow them into your house. I mean, really, they wear J-Crew shorts.
3) This is the USA, not Afghanistan. We allow our citizens to bear arms. We have restricted the types of armaments they can bear legally.
4) Idiocy is not agains the law.
5) Ignorance is not against the law.
6) The Secret Service and AZ sheriffs most likely inspected all of the weapons prior to the demonstration.

7) If you are an anti-war protestor, you bring pictures of bombed out buildings, pictures of horribly mutilated children etc to the protest.
8) If you are protesting the desire of the government to reverse the 2nd amendment, you can show up with pictures of weapons but the the statement loses a lot.

Anyone who was intimidated by this fringe group of idiots is an idiot. Castrated bulls, every one of them.

So, do you actually condone the behavior of these gun slinging thugs?

Do you condone intimidation tactics when the will of the people democratically elected our leaders?

"The Secret Service and AZ sheriffs most likely inspected all of the weapons prior to the demonstration."

Do you have any evidence that this took place? Or are you speculating?

"The Taliban is a well run group of terrorists using intimidation these people never dreamed of, can you really picture them raping your daughter to get you to allow them into your house. I mean, really, they wear J-Crew shorts."

I don't know, could you imagine a good kid doing something so bad that the entire country mourns? [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I can.

Maybe they'll bomb a few buildings before you change your mind. If you don't think they are dangerous, you are not paying attention. Never in our time has a president been so loved and so hated. I doubt these groups will remain postured for much longer.

621 Wendya  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:07:20pm

re: #593 Dianna

?!

OK, so the fact that I just bought a can of .45 makes me a dangerous nut?

Damn, I just thought I was being economical!

If you buy ammunition in bulk, you're a nut. If you buy toilet paper in bulk, you're just trying to save money.

622 Kenneth  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:10:24pm

re: #620 idioma

Whether "American Taliban" is a fully accurate comparison or not is irrelevant. These people are potentially very dangerous in several ways. Taking guns to a presidential town hall meeting is like shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater. It is an unnecessary and dangerous provocation under the guise of exercising one's rights as a citizen of a free country.

623 theheat  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:11:52pm

re: #620 idioma

Never in our time has a president been so loved and so hated. I doubt these groups will remain postured for much longer.

I recall Clinton was mighty loved and despised. But I don't recall several people showing up at rallies openly displaying their guns. If so, I've forgotten.

And as far as secret service checking out the guns of the gun-toters at the Obama rally - haven't heard about that, either. My guess is if they didn't do it this time, they sure as hell better next time.

624 idioma  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:13:38pm

re: #622 Kenneth

Whether "American Taliban" is a fully accurate comparison or not is irrelevant. These people are potentially very dangerous in several ways. Taking guns to a presidential town hall meeting is like shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater. It is an unnecessary and dangerous provocation under the guise of exercising one's rights as a citizen of a free country.

See this comment:

re: #408 idioma

We're on the same page about that.

625 calcajun  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:13:48pm

re: #621 Wendya

or you have some serious dietary problems.

626 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:16:33pm

re: #610 Thanos

So you are supporting these guys and what they did?

No, I am not supporting what they did.
However, to equate these idiots to the Taliban is absurd. The Taliban ruled with an Iron Fist (not the LGF poster) and did not allow anyone else the ability to protect themselves. They ruled through fear and distrust. They beheaded at will. To imply that the nutjobs peacocking around so that they can get their pictures taken is ludicrous.

In my opinion these people are too stupid to be taken seriously.

They bounce around, carrying (not brandishing) their guns at an event where there will be many cameras. The press, the Secret Service, the AZ protective associations now have their pictures and I would guess probable cause to get a warrant to tap into their systems (little law help here.) I know if I ere an AG, I would certainly be attempting to get those warrants. AND, although these folks are downright stupid, somewhere, there is a manipulator who thinks he is smarter than the rest of the world who will be looking to control this bunch of yahoos.

I'm thinking that the next thing we know, they'll be recounting AREA 51 conspiracy tales and anal probings by aliens.

627 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:17:16pm

re: #626 Eowyn2

You don't have to be smart to pull a trigger.

628 Wendya  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:19:11pm

re: #623 theheat

And as far as secret service checking out the guns of the gun-toters at the Obama rally - haven't heard about that, either. My guess is if they didn't do it this time, they sure as hell better next time.

If the protesters are outside the protected area, it's left up to local law enforcement. The Secret Service said they were not a threat and the police monitored them at the protest.

629 Wendya  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:24:03pm

re: #626 Eowyn2

In my opinion these people are too stupid to be taken seriously.

Generally speaking, people with an intent to harm the President don't walk around in a crowd with a weapon slung over their back. The danger in these instances is the use of law enforcement to monitor the law abiding, armed people while potentially diverting their attention from the hidden threats. It's a selfish attitude.

630 NoPanacea  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:28:11pm

re: #375 Ward Cleaver

It's also industrial-strength stupid, since it could backfire (pardon the pun) politically, giving the Dems a reason to draft some draconian gun control laws, which 0bama would probably sign.

Single issue fruitcakes?
Most posters here probably have a pistol, for self defense. They probably do not however, follow the anti gun laws that are proposed tens of times each year in congress or hundreds of times each year in the various states and municipalities. I would venture to guess that these protesting individuals "are aware" and the posters here, are not. There are over 20,000 gun laws and regulations. This gentleman was in compliance or he would have been arrested or at least detained. Please inform yourself of a treaty called "CIFTA". It is the latest attempt by Obama to pay off his political debts to the socialist left and to do an "end around" on the second amendment. Basically by "treaty requirements" government will know who you are, your address, and what weapons you own. And so will every other government in the North and South America. Yes, this includes Castro and Chevez, or any other up and coming dictator. There is also an expansion of this type treaty planned in the UN. Of course, Obama could never take these freedoms thru legislation. By treaty? Who knows?
Please, give up (at least some) of the news media hype about "nutcases" and inform yourself.
Single issue? In a short time, it could be a main issue.
No, I don't think a gun is appropriate at a political rally, at the present time. I do think that mace is.
Fruitcake?
He may be a fruitcake, or he may know more than you.
He had a gun legally present at a political rally. By this fact alone, he must be pretty law abiding.

631 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:31:12pm

re: #630 NoPanacea

You seriously think an international treaty is going to take your guns away?

632 Pianobuff  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:33:02pm

re: #631 Sharmuta

You seriously think an international treaty is going to take your guns away?

First and only comment in almost 3 years since acct activation.

633 Pianobuff  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:34:50pm

re: #632 Pianobuff

First and only comment in almost 32 years since acct activation.

634 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:35:01pm

re: #632 Pianobuff

I noticed that too.

635 idioma  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:35:16pm

re: #623 theheat

I recall Clinton was mighty loved and despised. But I don't recall several people showing up at rallies openly displaying their guns. If so, I've forgotten.

Clinton and the 1990's cannot be fairly compared to the current political climate. What group would you compare to the nirthers? Were Ross Perot supporters so far gone that guns started showing up? [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Nope.

And as far as secret service checking out the guns of the gun-toters at the Obama rally - haven't heard about that, either. My guess is if they didn't do it this time, they sure as hell better next time.

There's no comfort in such speculation. Mitigation through inspection? Are you seriously thinking that will be effective? The Secret Service inspecting weapons at a rally? Are we that far gone?

Why should we tolerate firearm abuse? Have you even considered the consequences? Why do you think police show up in droves when demonstrations heat up? When passionate chants turn regular citizens into window-smash, building burning rioters, what benefit will there be for having loaded rifles among them?

And what if one of these "armed-but-peaceful patriots" decides to use their firearm? What good will an inspection do then?

Youtube Video

Not funny then.

Not funny now.

This is reality.

636 Lee Coller  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:36:30pm

re: #632 Pianobuff

First and only comment in almost 3 years since acct activation.

That's funny, the account NIC looks familiar though.

637 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:36:51pm

re: #631 Sharmuta

You seriously think an international treaty is going to take your guns away?

Obama was constructed by the Bilderbergers! That's why there's no nirth certifikate!

638 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:37:43pm

While I wait for an answer that may or may not come- a treaty to disarm the American people would never happen. First- it would need Senate confirmation. Never going to happen- Senator's aren't that stupid. Second- the SCOTUS would toss it even if the Senate was stupid.

But don't let reality get in the way of your outbreak of the vapors.

639 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:40:41pm

re: #620 idioma

So, do you actually condone the behavior of these gun slinging thugs?
NO, I think they are stupid.

Do you condone intimidation tactics when the will of the people democratically elected our leaders?

Was Obama intimidated? Surrounded by Secret Service agents. Ask him the time you see him. These people were "near" where the town hall meeting took place. I would like a clearer definition of 'Near' - on the corner. In the west, if you are within a half hour driving distance you are 'near'.

"The Secret Service and AZ sheriffs most likely inspected all of the weapons prior to the demonstration."
Do you have any evidence that this took place? Or are you speculating?

Speculation due to seeing how thorough the SS was when Bush was in town here. Unless you believe they are in on a conspiracy as well. Just driving home from work we weren't allowed within 50 ft of his mortorcade and we were not allowed out of our vehicles to wave.


I don't know, could you imagine a good kid doing something so bad that the entire country mourns? [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

NOT my definition of a good kid.

Maybe they'll bomb a few buildings before you change your mind. If you don't think they are dangerous, you are not paying attention.

To the best of my knowledge, they did not have bombs and as I cannot find a map to show their proximity to the President, I cannot assume they were close enough to intimidate him.

They are idiots. Like the thief that gets his ass stuck in the air conditioning ducts. And idiocy is still not a crime. I dont think the ones in front of the camera are dangerous. The dangerous ones are the ones puppeteering these guys. I'd love to follow the money on these folks as well.

Never in our time has a president been so loved and so hated. I doubt these groups will remain postured for much longer


Where are you getting the "Never in our time has a president been so loved and so hated?" How old are you? Few of our presidents over the last 40 years were 'loved' at all. LBJ (hey hey LBJ, how many kids did you kill today)? Nixon (tricky dicky)? Ford (bumbling idiot)? Carter (duh)? Reagan (was he realy an idiot or really just super smart - the libs couldn't quite decide.) Bush I (okay but nothing to write home about) Clinton (okay but the letters home were pornographic) Bush II (despised by liberals and conservatives for his wishy washy stance on everything) So if you are going to give me the line that Obama is loved and hated more than any other president in our lifetime, you're going to need to back it up. He is definately idolized by certaint groups and there are other groups that will hate him, but I don't think it is any more than any other president in history.

640 Athos  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:41:07pm

re: #630 NoPanacea

Please, give up (at least some) of the news media hype about "nutcases" and inform yourself.
Single issue? In a short time, it could be a main issue.

Actually, the majority of us who are / have posted did inform ourselves - looking at the website and linkages across 4409 / FreedomPhoenix / Earnest Hancock - and these people are about as far away from having a grasp of the main issue as having a grasp on reality.

They embrace nearly every nutter conspiracy theory while trying to wrap themselves in the falg of patriotism to insulate themselves from the stupidity of their actions and their beliefs. They wanted attention - and now they are going to get attention as the asshats they are -and the asshats they support.

It is, from viewing their sites and links, immaterial that they used the letter of the law to bring a gun to a presidential event. It was a highly provocative act that represents a far greater threat as opposed to demonstrating that he is 'law abiding'. There was a calculated motive and agenda behind this step. As a result - mainstream needs to see this, act accordingly, and firmly place this group and these people on the extreme fringe where it belongs...not given any benefit of the doubt.

641 idioma  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:41:27pm

re: #630 NoPanacea

re: #375 Ward Cleaver

It's also industrial-strength stupid, since it could backfire (pardon the pun) politically, giving the Dems a reason to draft some draconian gun control laws, which 0bama would probably sign.

Single issue fruitcakes?
Most posters here probably have a pistol, for self defense. They probably do not however, follow the anti gun laws that are proposed tens of times each year in congress or hundreds of times each year in the various states and municipalities. I would venture to guess that these protesting individuals "are aware" and the posters here, are not. There are over 20,000 gun laws and regulations. This gentleman was in compliance or he would have been arrested or at least detained. Please inform yourself of a treaty called "CIFTA". It is the latest attempt by Obama to pay off his political debts to the socialist left and to do an "end around" on the second amendment. Basically by "treaty requirements" government will know who you are, your address, and what weapons you own. And so will every other government in the North and South America. Yes, this includes Castro and Chevez, or any other up and coming dictator. There is also an expansion of this type treaty planned in the UN. Of course, Obama could never take these freedoms thru legislation. By treaty? Who knows?
Please, give up (at least some) of the news media hype about "nutcases" and inform yourself.
Single issue? In a short time, it could be a main issue.
No, I don't think a gun is appropriate at a political rally, at the present time. I do think that mace is.
Fruitcake?
He may be a fruitcake, or he may know more than you.
He had a gun legally present at a political rally. By this fact alone, he must be pretty law abiding.

Does that tinfoil hat rust in this heat?

642 Athos  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:41:55pm

re: #632 Pianobuff

First and only comment in almost 3 years since acct activation.

'allo M. Sockpuppet...or is it Mdm. Sleeper?

643 Lee Coller  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:42:43pm

re: #642 Athos

'allo M. Sockpuppet...or is it Mdm. Sleeper?

Actually as I think about it, I believe this is one of our silent down/up dingers. I recognize the nic.

644 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:43:14pm

One would have thought it would be illegal to knowingly carry a firearm within killing range of the POTUS.
The fact that it may be legal belies an obsession with the right to bear arms which transcends the reasonable security needs of the POTUS.
Fascinating.

645 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:46:38pm

re: #627 Sharmuta

You don't have to be smart to pull a trigger.

True enough, but you do have to have a target.

And I still suspect these folks were around for the Bush years but we didn't see them because the press never covered them.

646 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:47:56pm

re: #644 Spare O'Lake

One would have thought it would be illegal to knowingly carry a firearm within killing range of the POTUS.
The fact that it may be legal belies an obsession with the right to bear arms which transcends the reasonable security needs of the POTUS.
Fascinating.

Since USSS did not pull the individual, I don't think he was ever in a position to be a threat.

647 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:48:41pm

re: #645 Eowyn2

Plenty of bloggers have covered left wing protests, and NONE have ever shown left-wingers with guns. I've attended a few protests in my area- no guns.

648 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:50:51pm

Looks like 'NoPanacea' did a sleepers' dump and run.

649 Sharmuta  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:51:32pm

Glad I didn't wait for an answer.

650 Lee Coller  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:51:53pm

re: #647 Sharmuta

Plenty of bloggers have covered left wing protests, and NONE have ever shown left-wingers with guns. I've attended a few protests in my area- no guns.

This is definitely a new trend, probably started by that Paulian in NH. If he hadn't brought his gun (and openly carried), I doubt it would even have occurred to the others that they could get away with this.

651 idioma  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:53:15pm

re: #639 Eowyn2

Where are you getting the "Never in our time has a president been so loved and so hated?" How old are you? Few of our presidents over the last 40 years were 'loved' at all. LBJ (hey hey LBJ, how many kids did you kill today)? Nixon (tricky dicky)? Ford (bumbling idiot)? Carter (duh)? Reagan (was he realy an idiot or really just super smart - the libs couldn't quite decide.) Bush I (okay but nothing to write home about) Clinton (okay but the letters home were pornographic) Bush II (despised by liberals and conservatives for his wishy washy stance on everything) So if you are going to give me the line that Obama is loved and hated more than any other president in our lifetime, you're going to need to back it up. He is definately idolized by certaint groups and there are other groups that will hate him, but I don't think it is any more than any other president in history.

Can you think of any other presidential election that brought so many people to tears? There were people dancing in the streets in almost every major city on election night. For many, it was a celebration, for some a call to arms.

White supremacists are no fans of having a democrat as president. But they're even less thrilled about having a black democrat as president. If you don't think they are hate groups, what are they exactly?

Loved? Definitely.
Hated? Without a doubt.

No other president compares in magnitude.

652 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:53:24pm

re: #648 Charles

Looks like 'NoPanacea' did a sleepers' dump and run.

Next pearls of wisdom due in late 2011.

653 Coracle  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:53:27pm

re: #645 Eowyn2

True enough, but you do have to have a target.

And I still suspect these folks were around for the Bush years but we didn't see them because the press never covered them.

That's not even tu quocque. There's no tu there. It's just quoque.

Though I suspect other folks at those Bush rallies were smuggling fluffy bunnies across state lines. The press never covered them, either.

654 Wendya  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:54:14pm

re: #630 NoPanacea

Please inform yourself of a treaty called "CIFTA". It is the latest attempt by Obama to pay off his political debts to the socialist left and to do an "end around" on the second amendment.

It's dead. They don't have nearly enough votes for it in the Senate. Furthermore, a treaty can't override the Constitution. That's pretty much settled law.

655 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:55:26pm

re: #654 Wendya

It's dead. They don't have nearly enough votes for it in the Senate. Furthermore, a treaty can't override the Constitution. That's pretty much settled law.

Never let facts get in the way of good conspiracy!

656 Wendya  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:55:46pm

re: #644 Spare O'Lake

One would have thought it would be illegal to knowingly carry a firearm within killing range of the POTUS.
The fact that it may be legal belies an obsession with the right to bear arms which transcends the reasonable security needs of the POTUS.
Fascinating.

They were not in range. The USSS sets aside a specific area and it is considered federal property when the President visits. If you're outside that protected area, you are subject to state and local laws.

657 Athos  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:56:13pm

re: #654 Wendya

Furthermore, a treaty can't override the Constitution. That's pretty much settled law.

That popping sound in the background is a couple of dozen conspiracist heads exploding...they're convinced that treaties can do just that.

658 doubter4444  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:56:43pm

re: #232 Russkilitlover

Paleo-libertarian? Why complicate things. They're anarchists, plain and simple.

I think this is an very important point.
These people will not be satisfied short of armed conflict.
It's not a Democratic or Republican thing right now, it's a US issue.
Think of it in terms of being able get a heads up on McVeigh before the Oklahoma City bombing.
Using these guys for short term political gain, by either side is really dangerous, as by the right, they'll see it as acceptance or condoning their actions (if that's a word) or the left as subjugation or an infringement of rights.
Either way, it's a tinderbox.

659 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:57:35pm

look at the vedio them troothers there too. not just birthers seems many of them are the same people, as well as the nor laup, laruchies and other proto fascists. this isn't a republican thing at all.

660 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:57:48pm

re: #646 jcm

Since USSS did not pull the individual, I don't think he was ever in a position to be a threat.

My point Zactly.

661 Bagua  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:58:46pm

Good grief! These nuts should definitely be prosecuted for this act, having watched the video it is clear there was a criminal act that took place.

662 Wendya  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:58:55pm

re: #655 jcm

Never let facts get in the way of good conspiracy!

That whole treaty vs constitution argument is poorly understood. We have specific methods that deal with changes to our laws and the courts have ruled that our law, the constitution, is the law of the land and no treaty can legally change it. Treaties can't be used to change state law either. We don't allow anyone but state and federal legislatures to modify or eliminate our laws.

663 doubter4444  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:00:35pm

re: #136 Charles

There's an overwhelming amount of support for these extremists in the comments at Hot Air, by the way.

What the hell happened to Capt. Ed?
He used to be an interesting read, now he supports the crazies.
God, what a paycheck will do.
(and I should know, I work in advertising)!

664 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:02:52pm

re: #662 Wendya

That whole treaty vs constitution argument is poorly understood. We have specific methods that deal with changes to our laws and the courts have ruled that our law, the constitution, is the law of the land and no treaty can legally change it. Treaties can't be used to change state law either. We don't allow anyone but state and federal legislatures to modify or eliminate our laws.

When you go back to Washington's "entangling alliances" that is what he was talking about, not alliances for mutual benefit. He was talking about entangling our sovereignty and rights with other nations via treaty obligations.

665 Pianobuff  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:04:31pm

re: #663 doubter4444

What the hell happened to Capt. Ed?
He used to be an interesting read, now he supports the crazies.
God, what a paycheck will do.
(and I should know, I work in advertising)!

Is he backing them?

666 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:05:58pm

re: #626 Eowyn2

Ok, so you aren't supporting, you are just spending your time long after the thread's died downplaying what they did. I get it.

667 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:06:14pm

re: #580 jcm

Ayers and his friends actually for real blew shit up and killed people.

So did Timmy McV. Your point?

668 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:08:12pm

re: #667 Cato the Elder

So did Timmy McV. Your point?

The militia site that they link to has PDF's on how to build a bomb like T.MCV did, they are dangerous.

669 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:09:37pm

re: #653 Coracle

That's not even tu quocque. There's no tu there. It's just quoque.

Though I suspect other folks at those Bush rallies were smuggling fluffy bunnies across state lines. The press never covered them, either.

The statement is not part of my arguement therefore it cannot be tu quocque. My opinion regarding the arms near Bush rallies have nothing to do with the current situation. My suspicions that if this were a Republican president we would not be seing these idiots all over the news now are not unfounded.
The Paulians hated Bush just about as much as they hate Obama.

670 Athos  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:09:50pm

From Newsbusters - Media Barely Noticed Legal Gun Brandishing New Black Panthers in 2000 at Texas GOP Convention in Houston.

But the media reaction was markedly different nine years ago when a group of Black Panthers marched on the Texas Republican Party’s state convention on June 2000 brandishing AK-47s. Indeed, that incident itself was chalked up as then-Gov. Bush’s fault by none other than then-MSNBC "Equal Time" co-host Paul Begala.

A search of Nexis and the Media Research Center’s News Tracking System found no stories on that evening’s broadcast network newscasts about the Black Panthers brandishing “assault weapons” to protest then-presumptive GOP presidential nominee – and Secret Service protectee – Gov. George W. Bush’s refusal to intervene in the pending execution of convicted murderer Gary Graham.

671 jcm  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:10:23pm

re: #667 Cato the Elder

So did Timmy McV. Your point?

Ayers and crew have done the deed, just like Timmy. Very good.

Nuts come in all flavors.

672 charles_martel  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:11:22pm

Well, if an 404 error is "not found", I guess a 4409 is Really Lost!

673 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:11:31pm

re: #669 Eowyn2

the paulians were at the anti american leftist rallies there seems to be a good mixing on these nuts, there were birthers in this vedio as well as troothers

SSDD.

674 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:13:19pm

OR are the nor lauper's like chameleons and change what ever coloration then need depending on who calls the demo?

675 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:15:44pm

re: #673 yochanan

the paulians were at the anti american leftist rallies there seems to be a good mixing on these nuts, there were birthers in this vedio as well as troothers

SSDD.

They also crossed the border into Canada to meet with UFPJ, no ally is too ugly for them as long as they are opposed to the person in office now. They think of the US as a police state, if you look at their site close you will see that's a consistent theme. They are highly anti-ATF, just like Randy Weaver and Tim McVeigh, and others of that ilk. They seem to like the Freemen, same group Scott Roeder used to belong to. Not all of them are dangerous, but to pretend there isn't some danger there is just nuts.

676 Bagua  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:16:33pm

From the video:
re: #121 LudwigVanQuixote

Let me explain... That rifle fires nato rounds that will penetrate all but really good body armor and it is absolutely not a toy. It is being used as a toy by an asshat who has no business owning a weapon.

There is no excuse whatsoever for this.

I'm going to say something wild here. These things are for grown-ups and children do not have the right to use grown-up things that are dangerous.

LudwigVanQuixote,

For the record, you were correct in the prior thread in suspecting the gun toter was a dangerous lunatic.

677 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:17:16pm

re: #656 Wendya

They were not in range. The USSS sets aside a specific area and it is considered federal property when the President visits. If you're outside that protected area, you are subject to state and local laws.

Really. I read it has a range of at least 500+ yards, depending on the barrel and the ammo.

678 Athos  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:17:35pm

re: #674 yochanan

OR are the nor lauper's like chameleons and change what ever coloration then need depending on who calls the demo?

I don't think they are chameleons - they stand for the same things Laup Nor does - elimination of the Fed, expose and stop the threats of the SPP, Bilderbergers, Zionists, and embrace the America First ideals of fascism. In this, they hate GOP, Independents, and Democrats.

679 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:21:16pm

re: #651 idioma

Can you think of any other presidential election that brought so many people to tears? There were people dancing in the streets in almost every major city on election night. For many, it was a celebration, for some a call to arms.

White supremacists are no fans of having a democrat as president. But they're even less thrilled about having a black democrat as president. If you don't think they are hate groups, what are they exactly?

Loved? Definitely.
Hated? Without a doubt.

No other president compares in magnitude.

Were any of the street dancing exhibitions staged?
Definately not. Acorn would never stoop so low.

When Gore lost the election, the social teacher at the local high school came in weaping profusely and then sent the Gore supporter (my son) to the office for arguing in class.

How many elections have you actually been through?

680 Pianobuff  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:21:42pm

re: #678 Athos

I don't think they are chameleons - they stand for the same things Laup Nor does - elimination of the Fed, expose and stop the threats of the SPP, Bilderbergers, Zionists, and embrace the America First ideals of fascism. In this, they hate GOP, Independents, and Democrats.

I classify them in the main as being severely anti-authoritarian to the point of disorder. This possibly explains why the bad guy switches party id each time there's a different leader in office. They wouldn't have like HRC or McCain either. Speaking of which, where was most of the McCain=Manchurian Candidate stuff coming from? Was that a righty, lefty or wrap-around-anarchoterian kind of thing?

681 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:22:49pm

re: #675 Thanos

i think they are 'proto fascists' and it wouldn't surprise me if some of them got violent, either as a group or as a lone wolf, remember about 10 years ago one fascist follower of the church of the creator went on a shooting spree which started on my street were in total 10 people were shot
6 Jews 3 Asians and 1 black man one of the Asians and the black man were murdered.,
I don't take these creeps to be harmless nuts one of my sons was shot at by this Nazi creep lucky for my son he missed but others weren't so lucky and one of the shoots was right in front of my house and son saw it.

682 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:23:59pm

re: #670 Athos

didn't happen. the media didn't report it every day so we know it didn't happen.

683 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:25:08pm

re: #677 Spare O'Lake

Really. I read it has a range of at least 500+ yards, depending on the barrel and the ammo.

Still doesn't go around corners.

684 Wendya  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:27:57pm

re: #677 Spare O'Lake

Really. I read it has a range of at least 500+ yards, depending on the barrel and the ammo.

Unless it's specifically tricked out for long shots, an AR generally isn't used for shots over 250 yds. A lot of shooters can't get good groups even at that distance. It's not meant to be a sniper rifle.

685 yochanan  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:28:30pm

frankly is something should happen to the zero we would have riots in all our major cities and it could easly turn into civil war. I hope the zero serves his one term and has a long and peaceful life after wards.

it would not suprise me if the islamo fascist did it with a white convert so as to start this kind of war.

686 quickjustice  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:31:11pm

I don't believe for a moment that the Secret Service permitted the President to fall into any kind of danger in this situation.

That said, any organization that thinks it's a good idea to show up for a political rally close to where the President is and wave guns around is stupid. In addition, they're grist for the media frenzy that ensues in an effort to smear all of President Obama's opponents as crazy.

687 Wendya  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:40:11pm

re: #677 Spare O'Lake

Really. I read it has a range of at least 500+ yards, depending on the barrel and the ammo.

I'm looking at a close up picture of it and although he's spend some money tricking it out, it's mostly cosmetic (stock, pistol grip, forend, rails) other than the scope. You'd at least want a 24" barrel for that distance and that's not what I'm seeing in the picture. He spent a lot off money to make it look "pretty", not to make it shoot further.

688 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:40:12pm

re: #666 Thanos

Ok, so you aren't supporting, you are just spending your time long after the thread's died downplaying what they did. I get it.

This whole thing started because I disagreed with "US Taliban"
Fine. They're the US Taliban. I'm evil because I didn't think they are equivelant to the Taliban. Strangely, I dont believe that Obama is equivelant to Hitler or that Pelosi and the US Congress is equivelant to the Nazis. But, since all anyone want to read is that I uphold their right to be stupid and do not equate being stupid with being a terrorist, I'll take off my head scarf and shout from the rooftops. "Damn you, US Taliban, Damn you, US Taliban. Murderers of women, children, and innocent non-combatants. Mutilators of female sexual organs. Rapists. ..."

689 Eowyn2  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:41:09pm

re: #685 yochanan

frankly is something should happen to the zero we would have riots in all our major cities and it could easly turn into civil war. I hope the zero serves his one term and has a long and peaceful life after wards.

it would not suprise me if the islamo fascist did it with a white convert so as to start this kind of war.

Please don't give them any new ideas.

690 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:46:28pm

re: #688 Eowyn2

This whole thing started because I disagreed with "US Taliban"
Fine. They're the US Taliban. I'm evil because I didn't think they are equivelant to the Taliban. Strangely, I dont believe that Obama is equivelant to Hitler or that Pelosi and the US Congress is equivelant to the Nazis. But, since all anyone want to read is that I uphold their right to be stupid and do not equate being stupid with being a terrorist, I'll take off my head scarf and shout from the rooftops. "Damn you, US Taliban, Damn you, US Taliban. Murderers of women, children, and innocent non-combatants. Mutilators of female sexual organs. Rapists. ..."

For the record, they aren't the Taliban and you are right in that. Some of their motivations are the same, and the Taliban started as a small militia group as well. They weren't chopping off people's heads in the beginning either, and most saw them as heroes and saviours because they were opposing the rulers in Kabul. Calling them the Taliban however is over the top. Trying to say they aren't dangerous in their own right is mistaken.

691 The False God  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:56:32pm

re: #567 idioma

Bringing a truck full of diesel fuel and fertilizer would probably violate a lot of environmental and hazardous chemical laws, so your point is moot. It's a strawman, anyway. Arizona law says carry is valid, and there was no aggressive posturing. He stood around like a stooge talking to the media. He made it out to be for the purpose of demonstrating for the second amendment, which is not equivalent to intimidation. Even if he was looking to piss off the police, annoying the police by proxy is not a crime. If you take photography of the police on duty, even if it annoys them, you're not technically harassing them, nor interfering with their duties.

If annoying the police was a crime, every anti-war protester would probably be in jail.

Long story short: he's a moron with a gun looking for media attention, who did nothing illegal, and what he was doing was not intimidation according to the law, at least as far as everything I've seen. Tactless, counterproductive, and incendiary, yes. But not illegal.

If he was really "brandishing", then the cop would've cold cocked him and he'd be in jail. They were not likely to split hairs about it.

692 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 1:57:06pm

re: #687 Wendya

I'm looking at a close up picture of it and although he's spend some money tricking it out, it's mostly cosmetic (stock, pistol grip, forend, rails) other than the scope. You'd at least want a 24" barrel for that distance and that's not what I'm seeing in the picture. He spent a lot off money to make it look "pretty", not to make it shoot further.

So you figure the Secret Service sized this guy and his weapon up and decided not to worry?
Wow, I would've had this clown on the floor, disarmed him, and told him to be thankful he wasn't being locked up.

693 The False God  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 2:03:38pm

re: #692 Spare O'Lake

That's why, for the most part, police are well-trained individuals who don't let their personal emotions override their duty to the law, otherwise a lot of KKK and other racist demonstrators would've been gunned down over the years.

I would include the Black Panther party in that assessment, too. Racist groups on all sides, all gearing up, now and in the past and in the future.

They like guns for all the wrong reasons.

694 witwwats  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 2:23:38pm

Thank God that we can label them as “fringe”, “malcontents”, “nuts” and so on. As long as THAT’S the case, we can deny them their civil rights simply because it’s OK to hate them.

That’s been Obama’s strategy all along. You seem to approve.

This is simply thinly veiled anti-gun bashing.

Freedom; true freedom is also for “nuts” we don’t agree with.

695 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 2:28:39pm

re: #694 witwwats

Bullshit nimrod. Everybody in this thread has pretty much said it was legal and a right. But pretty much everyone has said they were stupid. Take your paranoia elsewhere.

696 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 2:38:08pm

re: #694 witwwats

Thank God that we can label them as “fringe”, “malcontents”, “nuts” and so on. As long as THAT’S the case, we can deny them their civil rights simply because it’s OK to hate them.

That’s been Obama’s strategy all along. You seem to approve.

This is simply thinly veiled anti-gun bashing.

Freedom; true freedom is also for “nuts” we don’t agree with.

witwwats
half-wit nit-wit.

It's stupid to bring a loaded gun to any public event, much less one that includes any public official, much less one that includes the President. It's just stupid.

True freedom is also the freedom to recognize stupid when one sees it.

697 witwwats  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 2:40:15pm

Another Obamaism: When you have no argument, Denigrate and Attack.

Disagreement = Paranoia

Reread the Thread. There are lots of inflammatory comments and outright threats:

"Good grief! These nuts should definitely be prosecuted for this act, having watched the video it is clear there was a criminal act that took place."

". . .but the way they conduct themselves shows they're unhinged. It only takes a one crazed gunman to seriously fuck up someone's day."

Bottom line. You are entitled to your opinion, regardless of how idiotic it might be.

THEY are entitled to the legal display of their weapons, regardless of how idiotic they may be.

The Paranoia you observe is real, it's just on your side of the aisle.

698 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 2:49:44pm

re: #697 witwwats

Witwats, freedom comes with responsibility. Like not calling for revolution because you don't like the way the last vote turned out. Like recognizing that political events are not the place to bring guns, and to recognize that if you are an paranoid idiot in the US that people not have the right to call you on it, they also will.

So do you support the guy with the militia group who has all the "how to make bombs" shit on his site? Just curious.

699 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 2:52:28pm

re: #697 witwwats

Another witwatism: when you have no reasonable argument bring up Obama and Alinsky.

700 Gus  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 3:03:48pm

Found this regarding the kook Chris that showed up with the AR-15:

Chris declined to provide any personal information about himself. But Hancock, who had Chris on his online radio show this morning, said the young man is a Valley resident, an independent conservative and a member of the John Birch Society.

701 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 3:05:30pm

re: #700 Gus 802

Found this regarding the kook Chris that showed up with the AR-15:

That figures. No surprise here.

702 centaur  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 3:17:04pm

These people are idiots. What childishness, sticking to this "but it's legal to carry in AZ" argument when the are doing so right outside an Obama rally . As that fine point is lost in the technicality.

703 Wendya  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 3:20:29pm

re: #692 Spare O'Lake

So you figure the Secret Service sized this guy and his weapon up and decided not to worry?
Wow, I would've had this clown on the floor, disarmed him, and told him to be thankful he wasn't being locked up.


Every day, people do incredibly stupid things that are absolutely legal. Not liking something isn't legal grounds to seize private property from a citizen who is otherwise obeying the law. Had he entered the protected zone, you can bet your ass they'd have removed his weapon but he was far enough outside not to constitute a threat.

There is a lot of ignorance in this country concerning firearms but this isn't the way to deal with it. This dumbass did nothing but antagonize a bunch of people who don't understand the law and people like me who do but also understand that rights come with responsibilities. He exercised shitty judgment and that makes me wonder how he would react if he himself were faced with a legitimate threat to his safety.

704 doubter4444  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 3:21:49pm

re: #694 witwwats

Thank God that we can label them as “fringe”, “malcontents”, “nuts” and so on. As long as THAT’S the case, we can deny them their civil rights simply because it’s OK to hate them.

That’s been Obama’s strategy all along. You seem to approve.

This is simply thinly veiled anti-gun bashing.

Freedom; true freedom is also for “nuts” we don’t agree with.

So this is all a strategy by Obama to ban guns... good lord, it's the false flag scenario.
I can see him sitting with this evil cronies saying "We gotta get those guns!" and thinking a bit, snapping fingers "I got it, "let's push a health care bill that will bring out the armed crazies to my Town-halls, and then we'll be able to take them all away!"
Brilliant!
Maybe he plans to get himself shot (just a flesh wound, mind you) to be able do away with the 2nd Amendment all together.

705 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 3:33:22pm

re: #694 witwwats

Thank God that we can label them as “fringe”, “malcontents”, “nuts” and so on. As long as THAT’S the case, we can deny them their civil rights simply because it’s OK to hate them.

That’s been Obama’s strategy all along. You seem to approve.

This is simply thinly veiled anti-gun bashing.

Freedom; true freedom is also for “nuts” we don’t agree with.

Gun bashing = criticizing firearms.

So anti-gun bashing would be...?

Twit.

706 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 3:38:22pm

re: #694 witwwats

Thank God that we can label them as “fringe”, “malcontents”, “nuts” and so on.

What do you call people who believe vaccines are poisons, the government staged 9/11, and the moon landings were faked?

Yeah, “fringe”, “malcontents”, “nuts” ... those all fit.

707 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 3:43:29pm

Dictionary definition time.

brandish (v.) wave or flourish (something, esp. a weapon) as a threat or in anger or excitement.

OK, these guys weren't brandishing their weapons. But a lot of pixels are being wasted by people brandishing their witlessness.

708 Baelzar  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 4:15:45pm

re: #694 witwwats

If someone brings a gun to a debate, nobody sees the person. They only see the gun.

If you can't understand how this hurts our argument, how it distracts from the very real threat...then you're a fool.

709 doubter4444  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 4:21:53pm

re: #580 jcm

Ayers and his friends actually for real blew shit up and killed people.

I called it.
See my post #320.
You are justifying current events by bringing up past events that happened 30 plus years ago.
This is a problem.

710 NoPanacea  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 4:30:10pm

dump and run? No, had some dry cleaning to pick up, and a gift to send to an old VN pilot friend of mine.
Do I think that a treaty can cause confiscation of guns? No, (not immediately, that hasn't been history, anyways) The registration guns and owners is always the first step. Confiscation it always seems, comes sometime later.
Do you think the majority democrats in power would do such a thing after they have attained some excuse (invented or otherwise). Why yes, I do, in fact I would place large bets on it.
("invented" now let's explore that.)
Obama came back from Mexico (1st trip) with this treaty. At the same time the major news outlets were stating that 90% of the guns confiscated in Mexico were from the United States, and of course this needed to be stopped. The NEWS said 90%. Wow, we have a problem with illegal guns going to Mexico. The figure was 6000 or so guns of which 90% were from the US. It was a blogger (NOT A MAJOR NEWS REPORTER) who simply called the government down there to find out: these were 6000 out of 29000. The 6000 were guns that because of their manufacture were determined to be probably from the US. Low and behold 90% of them were. At the time, 29000 guns had been confiscated but only 6000 of that figure came from the US. That's not 90%, sweety.
So how did our news media miss all this information to put out the 90% figure?
Or is the entire news industry just really bad at basic math?
AND.
Why has the fact that Chavez ordered over 1 million AK47s from the Russians (couple years ago) not been brought up in any of these news reports about illegal guns in Mexico
Some research on these guys? I did see the wild beliefs on their boards. I don't attribute beliefs to someone I don't know. I'm not apologizing for them. But I will say to get by the Secret Service and the FBI and bring a gun to a meeting, such as this, and without getting arrested, indicates he probably has a clean criminal record, and knows the law better than you or I.
Other issue that seems to mean something you guys: I joined this board years ago mainly to watch the gathering of the news (ala drudge, I thought at the time).
I didn't pay enough attention to it to see the squelching of differing opinions, until lately.

711 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 4:42:10pm

re: #710 NoPanacea

I googled CIFTA. First link shows it was adopted in 1997.

I didn't pay enough attention to it to see the squelching of differing opinions, until lately.

Up until today you have been self-squelched?

712 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 4:57:42pm

re: #710 NoPanacea

But I will say to get by the Secret Service and the FBI and bring a gun to a meeting, such as this, and without getting arrested, indicates he probably has a clean criminal record, and knows the law better than you or I.

I don't care if he knows the law as well as Oliver Wendell Freakin' Holmes, he's still a damned fool.

713 DANEgerus  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 4:59:44pm

a hate group called “4409

That isn't trying to seize national control of health care, spend the country into bankruptcy, drop criminal charges against the voter intimidating black panthers, indulge Iran in developing nuclear weapons, grant amnesty to illegal aliens, give rights to civilian targeting war criminal terrorists, tax the poor for the religion of "global warming" to redistribute income to the wealthy and connected...

Yeah, I think I'll take my chances with the threat they represent to the nation.

It's not that I feel that much respect for the nice young men on bicycles distributing the Watchtower... it's just that they don't slash the tires of my neighbor's SUV like the ACT voter drive chicks in the save the whales T-shirts.

So pardon me if I prioritize my loons by how much damage they are likely to do.

714 idioma  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 5:09:23pm

re: #679 Eowyn2

Were any of the street dancing exhibitions staged?
Definately not. Acorn would never stoop so low.

Paranoid Schizophrenia
[Link: www.healthsquare.com...]

Might want to get that checked out.

When Gore lost the election, the social teacher at the local high school came in weaping profusely and then sent the Gore supporter (my son) to the office for arguing in class.

(?)

They both supported Gore, but were arguing in class? Either you are making this up or you don't know what you are saying.

In any case, unless your son was a registered voter in 2000 I really don't care.

How many elections have you actually been through

Ad hominem
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

It doesn't matter how many elections I've been through. Facts are on my side.

[Link: www.mercurynews.com...]
[Link: www.earthtimes.org...]
[Link: www.pjstar.com...]
[Link: www.freep.com...]
[Link: www.alarabiya.net...]
[Link: en.mercopress.com...]
[Link: www.expressbuzz.com...]

There's more, but I don't think it's worth the effort. Either you can accept numerous accounts from multiple sources, or you can wear the tinfoil. I don't care what you do.

715 idioma  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 5:14:48pm

re: #713 DANEgerus

a hate group called “4409

That isn't trying to seize national control of health care, spend the country into bankruptcy, drop criminal charges against the voter intimidating black panthers, indulge Iran in developing nuclear weapons, grant amnesty to illegal aliens, give rights to civilian targeting war criminal terrorists, tax the poor for the religion of "global warming" to redistribute income to the wealthy and connected...

Yeah, I think I'll take my chances with the threat they represent to the nation.

It's not that I feel that much respect for the nice young men on bicycles distributing the Watchtower... it's just that they don't slash the tires of my neighbor's SUV like the ACT voter drive chicks in the save the whales T-shirts.

So pardon me if I prioritize my loons by how much damage they are likely to do.

You do know the democrats swept the election in 2008, right? I mean, you realize that the majority of America supports health care reform, and accepts global warming as a valid threat worth combating.

If they did not... THEY WOULD HAVE VOTED FOR THE OTHER GUY.

If you don't like it, try again in 2010.

There, I even gave you a slogan that rhymes, go with that.

In the mean time, leave your guns at home, and don't make excuses for extremists just because you're on the same side.

Our government is democratically elected. "We the people" have already spoken.

716 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 5:33:24pm

re: #713 DANEgerus

So pardon me if I prioritize my loons by how much damage they are likely to do.

I do hope you will do sufficient research before you set your priorities.

717 idioma  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 5:35:51pm

re: #670 Athos

From Newsbusters - Media Barely Noticed Legal Gun Brandishing New Black Panthers in 2000 at Texas GOP Convention in Houston.

Wrong is wrong. I don't want anyone bringing guns to political events. We don't need guns to discuss our differences of opinion.

718 Grand Poobah  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 7:10:38pm

re: #17 Charles

Quite a few people have been defending and making excuses for them in the previous thread.

I have a slight feeling you're calling me out. I wasn't defending their ideology, I was defending their right to bear arms.

There is a difference. I also noted that these people, however ludicrous their ideology is, were not behaving like a bunch of rabid loons typical of more leftwing protests.

That said, I don't approve of their ideology at all, but I do approve of them holding guns.

719 hopperandadropper  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 7:13:08pm

Were they from the People's Front of Judea or the Judean People's Front?

720 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 7:49:27pm

re: #718 Grand Poobah

I have a slight feeling you're calling me out.

Then I probably was.

721 NoPanacea  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 8:04:22pm

idioma
8/18/09 5:14:48 p
You do know the democrats swept the election in 2008, right? I mean, you realize that the majority of America supports health care reform, and accepts global warming as a valid threat worth combating.

If they did not... THEY WOULD HAVE VOTED FOR THE OTHER GUY.

Actually, I don't think "they" had any idea who they were voting for. Even democrats were taken for a ride. That's the word I get from my friends in the fool's party. Can you say you had a handle on the costs of these idiot's programs?
And the media did everything they could to avoid informing. Still are.

If you don't like it, try again in 2010.

You can bet your bippy, sweetypie. It's gonna be amazing, to you.

722 pygmalienation  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 8:35:26pm

As if it needs to be said...
Owning, storing and using firearms is a HUGE responsibility! These people are basically mocking that responsibility (and the folks who take it seriously). It matters not if they are technically within their rights, their behavior is just piss poor judgment that has absolutely NO place in responsible firearm ownership.

723 idioma  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:46:27pm

re: #691 The False God

Bringing a truck full of diesel fuel and fertilizer would probably violate a lot of environmental and hazardous chemical laws, so your point is moot. It's a strawman, anyway. Arizona law says carry is valid, and there was no aggressive posturing. He stood around like a stooge talking to the media. He made it out to be for the purpose of demonstrating for the second amendment, which is not equivalent to intimidation. Even if he was looking to piss off the police, annoying the police by proxy is not a crime. If you take photography of the police on duty, even if it annoys them, you're not technically harassing them, nor interfering with their duties.

If annoying the police was a crime, every anti-war protester would probably be in jail.

Long story short: he's a moron with a gun looking for media attention, who did nothing illegal, and what he was doing was not intimidation according to the law, at least as far as everything I've seen. Tactless, counterproductive, and incendiary, yes. But not illegal.

If he was really "brandishing", then the cop would've cold cocked him and he'd be in jail. They were not likely to split hairs about it.

I never stated that his actions were illegal, what I have said repeatedly is that his actions are irresponsible to such a high degree as to warrant legislation which would restrict those citizens that are clear-headed enough to leave their guns at home.

We are not a society intended to be ruled by mob. He is abusing his right to carry, in the same way that someone falsely shouting "Fire! Everyone out! Fire!" abuses their freedom of speech. Even if this guy had eleventy-jesus-gazillion assault rifles, he is still entitled to just one vote. In November 2008 he had his vote, and I had mine, but "We the people" decided that the democrats would represent us. You may not like that. You might even feel cheated. But that's how our system works. You get another chance in 2010, just like the rest of us. Your gun doesn't get to vote, neither does mine.

Want to oppose tyranny? Then you better lose that sense of tolerance for people that want to bring out their guns and make demands.

If you are not willing to, we are going to see an escalation of force.

Leave your guns at home. We don't need them to discuss our differences.

724 idioma  Tue, Aug 18, 2009 11:52:51pm

re: #718 Grand Poobah

I have a slight feeling you're calling me out. I wasn't defending their ideology, I was defending their right to bear arms.

There is a difference. I also noted that these people, however ludicrous their ideology is, were not behaving like a bunch of rabid loons typical of more leftwing protests.

That said, I don't approve of their ideology at all, but I do approve of them holding guns.

Have you ever stood your post with a rifle and sidearm? I have. Bringing guns into a public demonstration is incredibly irresponsible and puts a lot of people in danger. Police have a duty to protect, but when someone introduces a firearm to a public demonstration they are escalating tensions with no regard for the safety of others, and putting law enforcement in a difficult corner with few options outside of deadly force. Unless you personally know of the tensions that exist for an armed sentry, you don't know how fallible a human can be when survival instincts kick in.

725 idioma  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 12:07:16am

re: #721 NoPanacea


Actually, I don't think "they" had any idea who they were voting for. Even democrats were taken for a ride. That's the word I get from my friends in the fool's party. Can you say you had a handle on the costs of these idiot's programs?
And the media did everything they could to avoid informing. Still are.

If you don't like it, try again in 2010.

You can bet your bippy, sweetypie. It's gonna be amazing, to you.

So democracy is only valid when people go your way?

You're embarrassing yourself.

Seriously.

Everyone is entitled to the same piece of the pie. I'm a vet with plenty of months in combat zones, do you know how many votes I got in November? that's right. Just one. My girlfriend was an art student in 2008, do you know how many votes she got?

JUST ONE.

You get one, I get one, we all get one.

I'm not going to tell a person that votes for Ron Paul that their vote doesn't count. Ron Paul is not my choice, so I did not vote for him. 69,456,897 votes put Barack Obama in office, but each vote was counted the same as votes for McCain, Ron Paul, and Batman.

What you do with your vote in November is your business, but when you make claims like:

'"they" had any idea who they were voting for.'

You show your true colors. You only like democracy when it's easy. Don't want to pay taxes for other people's health care? Vote for a candidate that represents you. If that candidate wins, we both still pay taxes, and you get to have it your way for a couple of years. If it stinks, it stinks. You don't want to pay for abortions, I don't want to pay for F-22 Raptors, but I am willing to accept the conditions of our social contract, because at least I get representation in November.

And no, having a gun does not mean your opinion matters more than mine.

726 idioma  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 12:08:05am

re: #722 pygmalienation

As if it needs to be said...
Owning, storing and using firearms is a HUGE responsibility! These people are basically mocking that responsibility (and the folks who take it seriously). It matters not if they are technically within their rights, their behavior is just piss poor judgment that has absolutely NO place in responsible firearm ownership.

I'd buy that for a dollar! UPDING!

727 NoPanacea  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:38:03am

idioma
8/19/09 12:07:16 am
So democracy is only valid when people go your way?

You're embarrassing yourself.

Idiotma sweety,
Why would I be embarrassed to point out that Obama voters are now surprised find that his health care proposals are going to provide health insurance for people who are not citizens. Why would I be embarrassed to point out that these costs (that were going to be ONLY savings) are now HUGE COSTS, not to the 250K income crowd, but to everybody. Why would I be embarrassed to point out that buyers remorse is a major player in the democratic party and your poll numbers are (from such an overly dramatic high) are plunging to new depths so early in an administration as to be scary. Even to me as a republican.
He's also managed to piss off some of our allied nations rather quickly in the international arena.
Note to self: Don't bring CDs of my speeches to my friends in the UK.
Idiotma, Nummykins, what you determine an embarrassment is really quite disturbing to the sane people.

Here's a little clue for ya, punkin.
On your parties health care proposal?
I personally know seven Md's that plan to retire the day this passes. Taken nationwide, the US has an immediate health care rationing situation. Perhaps I need to point out the obvious to you. (after all you seem to have a problem with comprehension) Most Md's are somewhere near or above the 250k income range. With the taxes for health care aimed mainly at the 250k income, Obama is planning to tax DOCTORS to pay for health care that they provide. One of my friends writes off about 750k of free care each year in his emergency room practice. Now you plan to tax him and his partners to pay for all the other free care in the country. That is an insult to any doctor. They are listening and they have their personal answers prepared. Is health care only valid when it goes your way?
You people, are more problems, than you have answers.

728 NoPanacea  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:46:16am

idiotma
8/18/09 11:52:51 pm

Have you ever stood your post with a rifle and sidearm? I have. Bringing guns into a public demonstration is incredibly irresponsible and puts a lot of pe

Uhhh well yeah pumpkin.
I have. ...I have also "stood my post" with with a helicopter, 7000 rounds for the mini-guns, and 28 folding fin rockets, which had 17 pound warheads.

But I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

...Other than to cause me to consider the guys demonstrating with their weapons to be "rather lightly armed".

729 LoveOneAnother  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 12:23:32pm

It is refreshing to see someone who actually believes that our Constitution means something.

730 idioma  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 1:28:17am

re: #727 NoPanacea

"Obama voters are now surprised find that his health care proposals are going to provide health insurance for people who are not citizens."

I've heard that rumor too. Do you have any evidence to support this claim? Could you point to the text present in any of the proposals in congress?

"On your parties health care proposal?"

If you think I'm a Democrat, you obviously haven't been paying attention.

This whole name calling tactic is also very childish, and I say again, you embarrass yourself. You don't like Obama, I get it. But he was fairly elected, so for the next four years, he represents the majority. That might not be the way things "ought" to be in your opinion, but it doesn't change the fact that this is our government, elected to represent us. All of your rants about costs could easily apply to other things most Americans disagree with - such as the war in Iraq.

Obama promised health care reform during the election. If he was not pursuing this, you'd still hate him, and you would not hesitate to label him a liar. Your cognitive dissonance is astounding.

731 idioma  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 1:39:50am

re: #728 NoPanacea

Uhhh well yeah pumpkin.
I have. ...I have also "stood my post" with with a helicopter, 7000 rounds for the mini-guns, and 28 folding fin rockets, which had 17 pound warheads.

But I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

...Other than to cause me to consider the guys demonstrating with their weapons to be "rather lightly armed".

A public forum to discuss future legislation requires no weapons whatsoever. Why is that so hard to understand?

It doesn't matter if you personally steered a nuclear sub armed with dozens of warheads either, my entire point was about responsibility - or lack thereof.

You seem pretty aggressive right now, I don't think you are choosing your responses with much care. Too much of this will bring the wrath of Stinky - if that's what you want, don't change a thing.

If you were to attend one of these town hall demonstrations, flying a heavily armed helicopter still would not make your vote count more than mine. It would do nothing but offer an unwelcome distraction.

When you are in the minority, displaying signs with slogans, slinging rifles and being extremely passionate doesn't automagically put you back into power. The election was last year, the rest of us are moving forward.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
3 days ago
Views: 115 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 276 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1