Keith, thank you so much, awesome job.

Great to see all of these in one place. Now, all we have to do is to get the pols to sit still for enough hours to answer them

It looks really great, and I see some great questions. I'm glad one of mine made the cut too- glad I could contribute. Great job, Keith, and thanks for putting in the hard work.

Nice work. Now what are the chances of actually getting any of these questions answered?

/Yeah, I'm a cynical bastard

What is the closest currently working system that is like the one you are proposing that we can examine for its cost/benefits?

That is a great question.

Kudos to Keith Gabryelski.

Looks great.

Indeed. I see some of the questions I posed in there. Keith did a great service to distill those questions.

re: #5 buzzsawmonkey

An impressive compilation (after my admittedly quick scan), nicely organized.

It would be superb to see answers to this--from the Congressional leadership and the President, certainly, but from ordinary members of Congress also.

The problem is that the House and Senate are running off separate scripts, and many of them haven't even got a clue about what their own chamber's version includes or excludes, let alone what the final bill will look like.

Howz 'bout we email the list to all major papers, news outlets, congresscritters and senators? Easy to read, well put together. Kudos to Keith.

Do you believe it is moral to use the force of law to mandate that every person legally residing in the USA be made purchase a specific product from a for-profit private company?"

Not sure I follow that?

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nice work. Now what are the chances of actually getting any of these questions answered?

/Yeah, I'm a cynical bastard

You kidding ? They won't even read it, much less answer it.

re: #10 debutaunt

It's the notion that you must buy into the insurance policy or else face penalties, if I understand the question correctly.

Few have been asked--and I doubt that they will be asked. We'll be given the same line our mothers gave us when they poured Merthiolate on our scrapes or foul-tasting cough syrup down our throats--"Stop complaining--it's good for you."

And looks really nice. Nice work,KG.

Yeah! Death Panel Thread!

/ ∞ sarc

re: #10 debutaunt

Do you believe it is moral to use the force of law to mandate that every person legally residing in the USA be made purchase a specific product from a for-profit private company?"

Not sure I follow that?

Under the philosophy section.

Nice job, new question...

When will ALL the proposals, Senate, House what ever, be available to the general.

I believe there is another house version and 4 senate version right now that are not accessible to us. If they are, I can't find them.

Excellent compilation, Keith. +1

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nice work. Now what are the chances of actually getting any of these questions answered?

What are the chances of these questions actually being asked? Are the odds higher now that "death panels" are off the table?

re: #12 lawhawk

It's the notion that you must buy into the insurance policy or else face penalties, if I understand the question correctly.

...be made TO purchase... ?

Why should we trust Washington DC politicians who take "choice and competition" off the table for low-income students-- via the removal of the popular and helpful DC voucher program?

How can a single payer public option promote "Choice and competition"?
The government does NOT have to preform under real market forces.

My son broke his arm Saturday with a compound fracture, it was set and surgery was on Monday morning and it was all done very well. It will cost me a couple of thousand bucks with health insurance but all I could think of was please don't let the government touch this health care...

re: #17 Walter L. Newton

Nice job, new question...

When will ALL the proposals, Senate, House what ever, be available to the general.

I believe there is another house version and 4 senate version right now that are not accessible to us. If they are, I can't find them.

...public

All the questions were gleaned from that one thread? Wow. Kudos lizards.

re: #21 zzz...

My son broke his arm Saturday with a compound fracture, it was set and surgery was on Monday morning and it was all done very well. It will cost me a couple of thousand bucks with health insurance but all I could think of was please don't let the government touch this health care...

That's Un-American.
///

re: #23 midwestgak

All the questions were gleaned from that one thread? Wow. Kudos lizards.

This blog fucking rocks!

How come Democrats are allowed to get away with the theft of buzz words like "choice & competition" to promote their obvious universal health care "reform". A public option will ultimately kill off choice and competition - leaving only the public option.

Between Keith and Dianna I think we could set up an LGF Summarization Project, and I could get more work done.

/out for now...

re: #10 debutaunt

Do you believe it is moral to use the force of law to mandate that every person legally residing in the USA be made purchase a specific product from a for-profit private company?"

Not sure I follow that?

Not sure about the 'moral' part, but it's already done. Liability insurance is a requirement in many states to register your car.

re: #5 buzzsawmonkey

An impressive compilation (after my admittedly quick scan), nicely organized.

It would be superb to see answers to this--from the Congressional leadership and the President, certainly, but from ordinary members of Congress also.

No offensive tone? It's like unsalted popcorn!

/

This is fabulous. These are the kinds of things that people should be informed about before arguing the bill. I have yet to hear questions like these rationally asked over the screaming and I have yet to hear the Dems state the case clearly, let alone address issues like these.

Now, if only town halls were full of rational people asking things like this...

What a good government we would have if this was actually the way it works. In reality the true intent of the bill will be hidden in legal-speak and in references to other legislation so no reasonable person can understand it.

I do not for one second believe that our Congress is pushing this because of a genuine concern for the health and well-being of its citizens. This is all about creating more people dependent on the government and further eroding any sense of personal responsibility that still remains.

Great job Keith.

(that's all. We're being watched.)

re: #30 LudwigVanQuixote

Now, if only town halls were full of rational people asking things like this...

they still wouldn't get a straight answer.

The silly thing is, this is a great list that Keith made up, but hell, we can't even get these guys to read the actual proposals (and from what I gather there are 6 of them, 2 in the house and 4 in the senate).

Can we fit these questions on a napkin?

I wish I could ask some of these at my representative's town hall tomorrow night. He's a Republican, so it wouldn't be quite as much fun. Unfortunately, I have a prior commitment and will not be attending.

In fact, I'll bump this up a little higher...

Imagine if rather than political kabuki, our presidential candidates had real debates where they had to answer things like this...

re: #33 buzzsawmonkey

I'm missing a reference here.

None. Keith edited out the "offensive tone", and frankly that's the best part of the non-debate, IMO.

;)

Awesome job. Do you have plans to present this list of questions to those in Congress, or the Administration. I would love to see the responses.

Keith,

If you are reading, you might want to change the heading of "Point of order" to "Constitutionality and Legal Grounds for Health Care Overhaul"

re: #30 LudwigVanQuixote

This is fabulous. These are the kinds of things that people should be informed about before arguing the bill. I have yet to hear questions like these rationally asked over the screaming and I have yet to hear the Dems state the case clearly, let alone address issues like these.

Now, if only town halls were full of rational people asking things like this...

...and politicians that even had a clue about the answers.

re: #35 Walter L. Newton

The silly thing is, this is a great list that Keith made up, but hell, we can't even get these guys to read the actual proposals (and from what I gather there are 6 of them, 2 in the house and 4 in the senate).

Can we fit these questions on a napkin lower cheeks of an exotic dancer?

/let's hit 'em where they live

re: #35 Walter L. Newton

I just had the oddest experience. Your web site appeared in the space below my name in the comment section, as if it were my web site. If you get a link to the Breast Cancer 3 Day, let me know.

re: #26 FrogMarch

How come Democrats are allowed to get away with the theft of buzz words like "choice & competition" to promote their obvious universal health care "reform". A public option will ultimately kill off choice and competition - leaving only the public option.

...Which is the stated goal of most progressive democrats.

re: #17 Walter L. Newton

When will ALL the proposals, Senate, House what ever, be available to the general.

Eight hours before the final vote if you're lucky.

/the clerk will have one copy that's not quite finalized

re: #19 debutaunt

...be made TO purchase... ?

Many states require auto insurance. In that case using the public highways a driver interacts with other divers, in a sense putting them at risk. Part of the "cost" of taking advantage the privileged of driving is ensuring everyone has a method of mitigating the costs of unfortunate incidents.

In a perfect market system, the answer to your question would be no. Individuals have the choice not purchase insurance. But the corollary is they would also have no claim to health care with out being able to pay directly for it.

If however the question changes, and providing health care is to mandated by law. Then the situation changes. If everyone has a claim to health care, then shouldn't they be required to "buy in?"

re: #32 Ben Hur

Great job Keith.

(that's all. We're being watched.)

Not to worry, Ben. I am only looking for Lizards who are blogging in the buff, not for dissenting opinions to report.

BTW, you should probably talk to your doctor about the mole on your... well, that place.

re: #34 OldLineTexan

they still wouldn't get a straight answer.

That depends on how many times the questions were asked. If the Average American was asking things like this, with this level of sophistication all the time, then the politicos would eventually have to notice and answer - because in the next election, the one who does talk like that gets voted in.

Of course in the dream I am having, that means that the average American would be informed, educated, rational, and value things like intelligence and sound policy over sound bites and scare mongering.

I am thinking of Plato's Republic. The dark lesson of that book is that people who are not worthy of democracy will only tear one down.

LGF reader Keith Gabryelski went through the entire thread and extracted all the questions, organized them, put them in a readable format, and created a simple Google Sites page for it

Hmmm... I notice my question about medical marijuana was excluded. (I.e. Will the government end up paying for people's marijuana in those states with medical marijuana laws? And if not, on what basis can the government disallow valid prescriptions?)

Oh well. Too hot of a topic, I suppose.

LGF reader Keith Gabryelski went through the entire thread and extracted all the questions, organized them, put them in a readable format

Someone needs a hobby !!!

///

re: #45 doppelganglander

I just had the oddest experience. Your web site appeared in the space below my name in the comment section, as if it were my web site. If you get a link to the Breast Cancer 3 Day, let me know.

Not yet.

Wowser, great job Keith. I considered doing this, but stopped because all content including the comments on the blog are property of Charles. I'm glad he's ok with it because it is a great resource.

re: #43 buzzsawmonkey

Where can I buy a ticket to the Land of Cockaigne?

I think you drink your way there...

re: #46 FrogMarch

...Which is the stated goal of most progressive democrats.

Single payer is the goal:

re: #51 zombie

Hmmm... I notice my question about medical marijuana was excluded. (I.e. Will the government end up paying for people's marijuana in those states with medical marijuana laws? And if not, on what basis can the government disallow valid prescriptions?)

Oh well. Too hot of a topic, I suppose.

I had asked one or two questions which had been broken down or were covered by slightly differently worded questions in other sections.

What is the closest currently working system that is like the one you are proposing that we can examine for its cost/benefits?

Anybody? Anybody? Buehler?

Great Job Keith!

Send the questions to your congresscritters!

re: #50 LudwigVanQuixote

That depends on how many times the questions were asked. If the Average American was asking things like this, with this level of sophistication all the time, then the politicos would eventually have to notice and answer - because in the next election, the one who does talk like that gets voted in.

Of course in the dream I am having, that means that the average American would be informed, educated, rational, and value things like intelligence and sound policy over sound bites and scare mongering.

I am thinking of Plato's Republic. The dark lesson of that book is that people who are not worthy of democracy will only tear one down.

So you think we can wear our current crop of politicians down with the "right" questions?

Really?

I have considerably less faith in them.

an outstanding job Keef...very well done

re: #58 experiencedtraveller

Anybody? Anybody? Buehler?

Cuba!

semi /

re: #49 Slumbering Behemoth

Not to worry, Ben. I am only looking for Lizards who are blogging in the buff, not for dissenting opinions to report.

BTW, you should probably talk to your doctor about the mole on your... well, that place.

OK that made me snort coffee through my nose...

BTW, I would like to imagine that we are all good looking, sexual super being kind of folks, but I have a sinking suspicion that seeing the average lizard in the buff would be less than appealing...

Great stuff, Kudos to Gabryelski.

This is a great compilation. Thank you Keith.

In the last couple days there has been some good work ferreting out the genesis of the public option. Progressives themselves acknowledge that the public option is in fact a blatant first step on the path to single payer. I think this astute question from that thread has been answered.

How will the public option not lead to a single payer system?

The American Prospect: THE HISTORY OF THE PUBLIC OPTION

One key player was Roger Hickey of the Campaign for America's Future. Hickey took UC Berkley health care expert Jacob Hacker's idea for "a new public insurance pool modeled after Medicare" and went around to the community of single-payer advocates, making the case that this limited "public option" was the best they could hope for. Ideally, it would someday magically turn into single-payer. And then Hickey went to all the presidential candidates, acknowledging that politically, they couldn't support single-payer, but that the "public option" would attract a real progressive constituency.

re: #58 experiencedtraveller

Anybody? Anybody? Buehler?

The Sweedish and the Israelis have pretty good systems. So do the Dutch and the Germans.

re: #49 Slumbering Behemoth

Not to worry, Ben. I am only looking for Lizards who are blogging in the buff, not for dissenting opinions to report.

BTW, you should probably talk to your doctor about the mole on your... well, that place.

DANG!

*turns web cam off*

re: #2 vanderleun

Great to see all of these in one place. Now, all we have to do is to get the pols to sit still for enough hours to answer them

...And answer them truthfully - preferably under oath.

Decent effort. As a conservative, I'd add that it is appropriate for government to mandate transparency about pricing and quality of care to encourage competition among doctors and other providers. Pricing is mentioned, but quality of care is not.

I'd also add the most basic questions: what's wrong with the status quo in health care? Why is change necessary? If there is change, why should it be in the direction of greater government control of the health care system, rather than less government control, more competition, and more consumer choice?

re: #60 OldLineTexan

So you think we can wear our current crop of politicians down with the "right" questions?

Really?

I have considerably less faith in them.

No, I personally do not think I could do it. However, if the general tenor of American citizens demanded it, things would change.

re: #63 LudwigVanQuixote

BTW, I would like to imagine that we are all good looking, sexual super being kind of folks...

You mean we're not? I feel so disillusioned right now.

This list would be a great recourse for one side or the other to make a factual case for their side. Unfortunately the debate is more centered around Death Panels and armed anti-government militias.

The questions I neglected to ask in that thread and they are important ones:

This is portrayed as a budget neutral bill predicated on a half a trillion in savings in Medicare and new taxes.
Can you provide concrete examples of where and how those savings will be achieved?

Can you tell us the amount of the new taxes and who will be paying them?

Another question -

Proponents of the different health care reform bills maintain that it is a myth and disinformation to assert that "Illegal aliens will be covered under health care reform". As a resident of San Diego County, I know that it is common for illegal aliens to show up in emergency rooms and that they get treated with the cost often passed to county government, or passed to all other users of the medical system in the form of higher costs.

It would be unethical for these people to go untreated for acute needs - even mothers giving birth to so called "anchor babies" need to be treated as do their infants. Few Americans would advocate letting illegal aliens die in the streets.

So how is it that such treatment would be extended without burdening American taxpayers either directly or through higher costs? Is there a "bright line" that you can articulate where compassionate care end, and will there be a mechanism for billing the governments of these people for the care extended to their citizens?

re: #75 Thanos

The questions I neglected to ask in that thread and they are important ones:

This is portrayed as a budget neutral bill predicated on a half a trillion in savings in Medicare and new taxes.
Can you provide concrete examples of where and how those savings will be achieved?
Can you tell us the amount of the new taxes and who will be paying them?

While at the same time ensuring Medicare recipients no loss of service ,, and as a follow up, if that money can be saved NOW with no loss of service, why was it being spent for all this time?

re: #21 zzz...

My son broke his arm Saturday with a compound fracture, it was set and surgery was on Monday morning and it was all done very well. It will cost me a couple of thousand bucks with health insurance but all I could think of was please don't let the government touch this health care...

I broke my ankle 5 years ago, but because I was uninsured I stayed home and self-treated with an ace bandage. I learned today that I will probably be wearing a brace for the rest of my life.

re: #69 buzzsawmonkey

Well, of course the Israelis do, what with the bountiful organ harvest and all.

///

Ohhh Buzzy, because I know you are a fellow tribe member...

I can not believe how sickening it is that there could be any Jew involved in such things - and the organs harvested came from poor Israelis (or in some cases, religiously motivated - as in they think donating a kidney to save a stranger is a mitzva) also makes me violently angry.

It is because of things like this that the Law has the four modes.

Disgusting

re: #68 jcm

DANG!

*turns web cam off*

Too late.

BTW, tell Mrs. JCM I say "congratulations". Dang, JCM, you could star in one of those movies...
/

Thanks for the kudos. I'm on an iPhone for a couple hours so I can't interact, but what I'm looking for right now are

what questions are missing
which are missclassified
are there better ways to classify questions
are there obvious answers to sone questions (with a reference to some wh or other official's audio/video)

thank you all.

re: #56 capitalist piglet

Single payer is the goal:

It is. The government is going to tax people to pay for everyone's health care with a government plan that will ultimately kill off real competition - because the government does not have to compete. The dems are now trying to sell this with deception by saying that a public option will add "choice and competition".
And there are all sorts of memory hole instances where democrats have openly - gleefully - proudly - told audiences that they ultimately desire a single payer universal health care. or - What truth in advertising is: government run health care.

re: #81 keithgabryelski

HUGE upding

re: #74 Killgore Trout

This list would be a great recourse for one side or the other to make a factual case for their side. Unfortunately the debate is more centered around Death Panels and armed anti-government militias.

Let us not forget the false accusations of "myths" too. Illegal aliens is an issue described as a "myth" which cannot be - ask folks who live on the border and see their public health resources going to treat people that are here due to lax federal border policy, yet the federal government does not pay for the care.

the care should be extended - but pretending that it won't be is as dis honest as "death panels".

re: #80 Slumbering Behemoth

Too late.

BTW, tell Mrs. JCM I say "congratulations". Dang, JCM, you could star in one of those movies...
/

I still don't quite understand why he had the feather duster where he did and how he could sit like that.

OT:

Barry Rubin runs an interesting thought exercise.

My Modest Proposal consists of two parts.

First, that from this moment on, the word antisemitism will be banished from the vocabulary. In its place will be a new word: Israelophobia, an irrational fear and hatred for Jews and their national state.

...

But this cannot stand alone. It must be accompanied by a second proposition. Rather than apologize endlessly, rather than spawn organizations which attack Israel under the guise of defending it, rather than write long reports and produce boring evidence, rather than inviting those who hate us to speak at our synagogues and other institutions we will adopt a different tack.

We will threaten to murder, possibly by decapitation, anyone who says anything critical of Israel or o the Jewish religion.

A few examples should nicely serve to encourage compliance. Please note that this is a no-lose proposition. On one hand, people and institutions will cower in fear and change their tune entirely. On the other hand, however, few would criticize us for killing and threatening critics. After all, to do so would constitute…criticism.

RTWT!

Nice job Keith!

re: #82 FrogMarch

It is. The government is going to tax people to pay for everyone's health care with a government plan that will ultimately kill off real competition - because the government does not have to compete. The dems are now trying to sell this with deception by saying that a public option will add "choice and competition".
And there are all sorts of memory hole instances where democrats have openly - gleefully - proudly - told audiences that they ultimately desire a single payer universal health care. or - What truth in advertising is: government run health care.

My honest opinion of this is that it all has very little to do with "care" of any kind.

I think it pretty much boils down to a big, fat power grab.

re: #76 karmic_inquisitor

Another question -

Proponents of the different health care reform bills maintain that it is a myth and disinformation to assert that "Illegal aliens will be covered under health care reform". As a resident of San Diego County, I know that it is common for illegal aliens to show up in emergency rooms and that they get treated with the cost often passed to county government, or passed to all other users of the medical system in the form of higher costs.

It would be unethical for these people to go untreated for acute needs - even mothers giving birth to so called "anchor babies" need to be treated as do their infants. Few Americans would advocate letting illegal aliens die in the streets.

So how is it that such treatment would be extended without burdening American taxpayers either directly or through higher costs? Is there a "bright line" that you can articulate where compassionate care end, and will there be a mechanism for billing the governments of these people for the care extended to their citizens?

This may be something of a simplistic answer as there's no room for a dissertation on the subject, but in principle, I would leave that part of the system (emergency care of illegals) as it is and focus on reducing the cost by removing their incentive to be here. Continue auditing employers for non-compliance with immigration laws as the Obama administration is doing now (one area where I actually agree with him).

re: #81 keithgabryelski

what questions are missing

The key one:

"Sir, isn't this whole "health care debate" just a ploy to distract the American people from your obviously fake nirth certifikit?"

/

re: #85 buzzsawmonkey

I was riffing on the "organ harvest blood libel" thread from earlier today. I'm not sure which organ harvest you're referring to.

I'm thinking of having my kitchen re-done in a retro 70s style, in Organ Harvest Gold.

re: #84 karmic_inquisitor

Let us not forget the false accusations of "myths" too. Illegal aliens is an issue described as a "myth" which cannot be - ask folks who live on the border and see their public health resources going to treat people that are here due to lax federal border policy, yet the federal government does not pay for the care.

the care should be extended - but pretending that it won't be is as dis honest as "death panels".

dialysis for illegal immigrants extended?...I don't think so...what is emergent care anyway...this stuff needs to get sorted out

Father of ‘Public Option’ Says It's Not a ‘Trojan Horse’ for a Single-Payer Health-Care System

A liberal Yale scholar, widely regarded as the originator of the “public option” idea of creating a government run insurance provider to compete with private-sector insurance companies, told CNSNews.com that he does not see the public option as a "Trojan Horse" that could lead the United States to single-payer, government-run health insurance.

“I do not see my ‘Health Care for America’ proposal as a route to single payer,” Jacob S. Hacker told CNSNews.com in an email.

Hacker said that he hopes the public option, if adopted, would eventually lead to a government-managed system--but it wouldn't happen overnight.

In a 2008 video obtained and aired by Fox News Channel, Hacker not only suggested that his plan would lead to a single-payer system, but said it would do so openly, in a gradual way, he admitted.

“Someone once said to me, ‘Well, this is a Trojan horse for single payer.’ I said, ‘Well, it’s not a Trojan horse, right? It’s just right there! I’m telling you!’” Hacker said in the video, which was filmed at a July 2008 forum sponsored by the liberal Tides Foundation,.

/what good is asking them questions when they insist on lying about their motives?

I'll add Hentoff's comments, which are directed to the huge new health care bureaucracy that will promulgate the regulations to fill in the gaps in the statute:

[Link: jewishworldreview.com...]

"Remember that legislation itself is only half the problem with Obamacare. Whatever bill passes, hundreds of bureaucrats in the federal agencies will have years to promulgate scores of regulations to govern the details of the law.
"This is where the real mischief could be done because most regulatory actions are effectuated beneath the public radar. It is thus essential, as just one example, that any end-of-life counseling provision in the final bill be specified to be purely voluntary … and that the counseling be required by law to be neutral as to outcome. Otherwise, even if the legislation doesn't push in a specific direction — for instance, THE GOVERNMENT REFUSING TREATMENT — the regulations could." (Emphasis added.)

Who'll let us know what's really being decided about our lives — and what is set into law? To begin with, Charles Lane, Wesley Smith and others whom I'll cite and add to as this chilling climax of the Obama presidency." comes closer.

re: #96 buzzsawmonkey

How long do you think you'll be able to stomach it?

he doesn't have the guts to do it

re: #85 buzzsawmonkey

I was riffing on the "organ harvest blood libel" thread from earlier today. I'm not sure which organ harvest you're referring to.

Oh I was thinking about the indictments in New Jersey.

One part of the scam, that the Rabbis - or at least people in their offices - were involved with was matching donors.

The Israeli connection was organized crime in Israel that found donors who were either in very tough financial straits, or really good hearted religious Jews who thought that live organ donation was saving a life and therefore they volunteered to donate a kidney - just for the mitzvah.

re: #96 buzzsawmonkey

How long do you think you'll be able to stomach it?

No idea, but does he have the heart to finish it?

I don't see my main question.

Who wrote individual parts of the bill?

re: #97 albusteve

he doesn't have the guts to do it

can you please ex spleen that ?

TPM updated their coverage of this guy...
Heavily-Armed '90s Militia, Linked To Anti-Obama Activist, Resisted 'New World Order'

A possible question (okay, a loaded one, but so what):

The "public option" has been explained by the President himself as being predicated upon "giving the private sector insurance providers something to compete against", in order to "keep them honest".

To what other areas of the economy is the Administration planning on applying that same economic [cough] "logic"? In fact, if the premise is correct, shouldn't the government get directly involved in EVERY area of the economy, to provide the provide sector producers of... well, everything... "something to compete against"? If not, why not?

re: #101 sattv4u2

can you please ex spleen that ?

c'mon, use your brain

re: #96 buzzsawmonkey

How long do you think you'll be able to stomach it?

You have to be kidney me. Let me ex-spleen it to you again.

re: #105 OldLineTexan

You have to be kidney me. Let me ex-spleen it to you again.

Please don't. No one wants to hear that tripe a second time.

re: #86 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I still don't quite understand why he had the feather duster where he did and how he could sit like that.

House work! I'm helping with house work!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

this is great!

thanks

re: #105 OldLineTexan

You have to be kidney me. Let me ex-spleen it to you again.

the exspleenation is in the appendix

re: #96 buzzsawmonkey

How long do you think you'll be able to stomach it?

With or without the avocado curtains?

re: #99 Honorary Yooper

No idea, but does he have the heart to finish it?

Two pairs of jeans = duo denum.

Space program? What space program?

Tight budget quashes US space ambitions: panel

The outlook is bleak, with maintenance of the almost-completed International Space Station (ISS) through 2020 the only remaining viable project.

But the US space agency will be unable to transport its astronauts beyond 2010 due to the planned retirement of its current shuttle fleet, depending instead on Russia's Soyouz spacecraft until at least 2015 when the new Orion crew exploration vehicle and its accompanying Ares I rocket will be ready.

Also in the works is a plan to use commercial rockets to ensure transportation to and from the ISS.

The Review of US Human Space Flight Plans Committee, which presented its preliminary findings to the White House on Friday, will issue a final report on August 31 following a series of public meetings across the country.

And what does the White House have to say?

"We have inherited one of the many failed promises of the Bush administration"

re: #81 keithgabryelski

Thanks for the kudos. I'm on an iPhone for a couple hours so I can't interact, but what I'm looking for right now are

what questions are missing
which are missclassified
are there better ways to classify questions
are there obvious answers to sone questions (with a reference to some wh or other official's audio/video)

thank you all.

You could probably cut "What are the costs?" and "How do we pay for it?" into one category called "Funding" or "Funding Issues".

re: #107 Slumbering Behemoth

Please don't. No one wants to hear that tripe a second time.

Duodenum and then run, eh?

re: #103 Occasional Reader

A possible question (okay, a loaded one, but so what):

The "public option" has been explained by the President himself as being predicated upon "giving the private sector insurance providers something to compete against", in order to "keep them honest".

To what other areas of the economy is the Administration planning on applying that same economic [cough] "logic"? In fact, if the premise is correct, shouldn't the government get directly involved in EVERY area of the economy, to provide the provide sector producers of... well, everything... "something to compete against"? If not, why not?

The idea that the private sector is inherently greedy and dishonest, while the public sector is operated under the highest moral standards of purest selflessness is one of the most pernicious falsehoods of the left.

re: #10 debutaunt

Do you believe it is moral to use the force of law to mandate that every person legally residing in the USA be made purchase a specific product from a for-profit private company?"

Not sure I follow that?

Another way of saying it... do you think the government should pass a law that forces people to purchase the services offered by my private business or pay a fine to the government?

OT: A woman who works on the same floor I do is a friend of this missing child's mother. She's passing out flyers, and asked for anyone to spread the word about him. I link the page from the Polly Klass Foundation.

Hassani Campbell.

It would be great to get him home.

re: #106 buzzsawmonkey

How soon one forgets.

Yes, that little incident was disgusting from top to bottom.

Seriously, four modes time.

re: #112 midwestgak

Two pairs of jeans = duo denum.

they make great ski pants when lined with Cortex

re: #118 Dianna

OT: A woman who works on the same floor I do is a friend of this missing child's mother. She's passing out flyers, and asked for anyone to spread the word about him. I link the page from the Polly Klass Foundation.

Hassani Campbell.

It would be great to get him home.

I think the only person who knows where he is is the foster father. My prayers go out to the family.

re: #81 keithgabryelski

If you want to be more specific under the what is covered section I for one am scared to death about diabetes treatment. I am a Type 1 diabetic and need several daily shots of insulin to survive. At what point is it no longer cost effective to keep me alive. Or worse yet when does someone decide the cost of maintainance treatment become less cost effective than, say, denying me the medication i need to er... stay complete, shall we say. In other words when does it become cost effective to just saw my feet and legs off because it is cheaper than paying the $500+ in monthly drug expenses that i require? After all, right now I am 41, but really, what use does a 70 or 80 year old need with legs?

I have to say, I am terrified.

re: #102 Killgore Trout

TPM updated their coverage of this guy...
Heavily-Armed '90s Militia, Linked To Anti-Obama Activist, Resisted 'New World Order'

If you go to the writers page for his site you will see quite an assortment of like minded nutballs.

re: #120 albusteve

they make great ski pants when lined with Cortex

You only get to wear that once a month though!

re: #89 capitalist piglet

My honest opinion of this is that it all has very little to do with "care" of any kind.

I think it pretty much boils down to a big, fat power grab.

It is a power grab - no question. If the democrats cared about "care" they would sure-up Medicaid and Medicare first - oh and that little thing called Social Security.
No matter- the progressive democrats are desperate to open huge avenues of confiscatory taxation. They are uninterested in the debt to society.
Predictions: Unemployment will mirror Europe (if not worse), health care innovations will drop off, costs will continue to increase (although they will shift) and health care quality will go down.
But on the up side - a few folks might gain some access.
We could add the same gained access with a market solution and keep America solvent. But I fear the democrats are uninterested.

re: #120 albusteve

they make great ski pants when lined with Cortex

That kind of clothing is too Cerebral for me.

re: #126 Occasional Reader

That kind of clothing is too Cerebral for me.

Head out of here then!

From The Moderate Voice:

Congressman Anthony Weiner (D-NY) expressed regret about President Obama’s lack of enthusiasm for insisting on a public plan and his general unwillingness to go “far enough” in restructuring health care in this country. Joe Scarborough got him to rip away the mask entirely and ask him if he was looking to completely eliminate private health insurance in America. You know… those plans that 83% of us have and we’re being assured that we can keep them if we like them?

re: #124 sattv4u2

You only get to wear that once a month though!

yewww!...spituitary

re: #102 Killgore Trout

TPM updated their coverage of this guy...
Heavily-Armed '90s Militia, Linked To Anti-Obama Activist, Resisted 'New World Order'

Whoa! These are the same idiots, "4409" or whatever?

re: #126 Occasional Reader

That kind of clothing is too Cerebral for me.

I suggest a get-away to the Islets of Langerhans.

re: #50 LudwigVanQuixote

hell you will not even get that inside the chambers

A great help. I'm preparing for the Moran townhall and I will most certainly use this (if I can even get in)

I must say this: I've gone thru all 1018 - or 1020 pages of this piece of shit. I say this as someone who once had a job reading the Federal Register as part of her portfolio - and, as a matter of fact, it still is. Also, as a software developer back in the day, I read IBM operating system manuals as beach reading.

This bill is a fucking nightmare. I read what 3 wood wrote - lawyers deliberately wrote it to obfuscate - but my take on it is that it was written by a bunch of staffers - lawyers or not - who know how to read law and want to put everything that will make their members important in this bill get skin in the game.

This is common in the early stages of drafting legislation. Normally, the drafts hit the committees for review and the adults take over (this is way before it goes before a vote on the floor or conference - it's still very internal).

Something broke down somewhere. And I have no idea where it was.

Anyway, per Keith's yeoman's work - let me tell you how it is lacking - and please don't take this as a criticism. It is only an analysis of how effective a weapon it would be.

People need citations. Give them a page number.

Let me give you an example: Earlier today, someone (sorry I forget who) posted in the spinsoffs this: IRS THE NEW HEALTHCARE ENFORCER

I am not familiar with William Jacobson, the site mgr of legal insurrection, but I can certainly refer to the pages of HR 3200 as he cites them and figure out if there is any credibility there or not.

So many thanks to Keith. But if I can get into Moran's townhall (where Howard Dean will be) I can't just go with questions that can be ansered with answers such as "Oh, no, the bill doesn't say that".

Chapter.

Verse.

Page number.

And again to Keith - you rock.

re: #122 beblebrox

If you want to be more specific under the what is covered section I for one am scared to death about diabetes treatment. I am a Type 1 diabetic and need several daily shots of insulin to survive. At what point is it no longer cost effective to keep me alive. Or worse yet when does someone decide the cost of maintainance treatment become less cost effective than, say, denying me the medication i need to er... stay complete, shall we say. In other words when does it become cost effective to just saw my feet and legs off because it is cheaper than paying the $500+ in monthly drug expenses that i require? After all, right now I am 41, but really, what use does a 70 or 80 year old need with legs?

I have to say, I am terrified.

I don't blame you. I also have a strong feeling that this plan will include major disincentives for medical research that might find a cure for Type I diabetes and other diseases. After all, why put in the time and treasure when the government will disallow the treatment or reimburse it at such a low rate that it's pointless to develop it in the first place?

re: #28 eschew_obfuscation

Not sure about the 'moral' part, but it's already done. Liability insurance is a requirement in many states to register your car.

Correct, but you don't have to own a car. Under Obamacare, you do have to purchase health care whether you want it or not. BTW, I don't like the car insurance mandates either but driving a car on public roads isn't a right.

re: #126 Occasional Reader

That kind of clothing is too Cerebral for me.

what do you wear?...skins?

re: #130 Dianna

Whoa! These are the same idiots, "4409" or whatever?

I don't know, but the Black Panthers once marched through downtown Houston with longarms to a "rally" and while it was reported, nothing happened.

re: #136 albusteve

what do you wear?...skins?

They always rubber me the wrong way!

impressive list of questions...fine job Keith...and thank you for your efforts

re: #131 OldLineTexan

I suggest a get-away to the Islets of Langerhans.

Hook me up with a Raquel Welch (circa 1969) lookalike, a submarine, and a miniaturizing machine, and I'm all over it.

re: #133 wahabicorridor

in other words...
kill the bill

re: #140 Occasional Reader

Hook me up with a Raquel Welch (circa 1969) lookalike, a submarine, and a miniaturizing machine, and I'm all over it.

Just watch out for the white corpuscles!

The Dismissal of Tariq Ramadan

A Dutch university and the city of Rotterdam Tuesday fired Islamic author and lecturer Tariq Ramadan from separate positions for hosting a show on Iran's state television. In a joint statement, Erasmus University and the city council said his program "Islam & Life" on Iran's English language Press TV is "irreconcilable" with his duties in Rotterdam.

We'd certainly agree that working for the Islamic Republic doesn't become a supposedly moderate "integration adviser" who was tasked with bridging the divide between Rotterdam's Muslim and non-Muslim communities and who also lectures students on "Citizenship and Identity." The question, however, is why the Swiss-born Mr. Ramadan was hired in the first place. He didn't exactly fit the bill of "bridge builder" even before signing up with mullah TV.

re: #121 doppelganglander

I think the only person who knows where he is is the foster father. My prayers go out to the family.

I am afraid to start speculating. This is the sort of story that starts me thinking that the human race isn't worth spitting on.

re: #132 yochanan

hell you will not even get that inside the chambers

You are correct - but only because the average American (at least according to Fox) would rather discuss this by screaming and waving guns around.

I sometimes wish to stave off depression by imagining an America where the level of organization that went into the crazies were applied by the sane types.

Let's talk coops...
If the public option isn't viable in congress, how will coops for plans be created? Will they be quasi governmental, organizations like the one that watches organ donor wait lists, or will there just be enabling legislation that allows existing organizations like the better business bureau etc. form health coops?

re: #15 jcm

You know, I could have gone for that whole "death panel" idea if they weren't so insistent on turning me into an edible green wafer after I offed myself.///

re: #93 albusteve

dialysis for illegal immigrants extended?...I don't think so...what is emergent care anyway...this stuff needs to get sorted out

It does need to be sorted out.

When my now 5 year old broke his arm, he had to go to Childrens' Hospital in San Diego for treatment (required surgery) we went through a very well organized in-processing area located adjacent to the emergency room.

In it are a bank of desks with administrators with computers who ask "How will you be paying for your treatment today?" Those with insurance end up spending over 1/2 hour with the administrator. Those without insurance spend about 5 minutes where they ask if you are ever going to pay for it and for some ID and a phone number.

It was clear from my 45 minutes in that room that illegal aliens -
1) don't have health insurance
2) get the same treatment that the insured do
3) Childrens' Hospital is resigned to not seeing any money from those who don't have insurance, an ID, and a phone number.

The bill to set my son's arm with pins (including an overnight stay) - $28,000.

That is the cost of extending indigent care in border regions.

re: #136 albusteve

what do you wear?...skins?

No, just punnin' on your Coretex/Goretex typo. (Cerebral "coretex", etc.)

Actually, I've invested in pretty great cold weather outerwear over the last several years. Global cooling... bring it, beeyotches!

dang that was alot of work, thanks Keith - great job.

re: #51 zombie

Hmmm... I notice my question about medical marijuana was excluded. (I.e. Will the government end up paying for people's marijuana in those states with medical marijuana laws? And if not, on what basis can the government disallow valid prescriptions?)

Oh well. Too hot of a topic, I suppose.

I put it in. It's a valid question for either side of the legalize it debate you are on.

I remember the question, not sure why it isn't there

re: #142 sattv4u2

Just watch out for the white corpuscles!

"TAKE A LEFT AT THE NEXT CAPILLARY"!!!
(Disney World)

re: #140 Occasional Reader

Hook me up with a Raquel Welch (circa 1969) lookalike, a submarine, and a miniaturizing machine, and I'm all over it.

I'm sorry, Obamacare will only cover a Helen Thomas (circa 2008) lookalike, a television box (big screen LCD, tho) and a package of Alice's "Eat Me" candies.

/

re: #143 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Dismissal of Tariq Ramadan

Some small sign of latent sanity in Old Europe.

re: #144 Dianna

I am afraid to start speculating. This is the sort of story that starts me thinking that the human race isn't worth spitting on.

excuse me?...the whole human race?

re: #151 keithgabryelski

I put it in. It's a valid question for either side of the legalize it debate you are on.

I remember the question, not sure why it isn't there

'Cause toking ruins the something-or-other, that's why!

/

re: #155 albusteve

excuse me?...the whole human race?

thats allottaa spit!

re: #144 Dianna

I am afraid to start speculating. This is the sort of story that starts me thinking that the human race isn't worth spitting on.

Sheesh... you're starting to sound like the Mark Twain character in that infamously creepy claymation "children's" t.v. show.

re: #155 albusteve

excuse me?...the whole human race?

Hey, she's not spitting ... let her be.

/

For some reason this thread has me thinking of

Watership Down

. Black Rabbits and all that...

re: #122 beblebrox

If you want to be more specific under the what is covered section I for one am scared to death about diabetes treatment. I am a Type 1 diabetic and need several daily shots of insulin to survive. At what point is it no longer cost effective to keep me alive. Or worse yet when does someone decide the cost of maintainance treatment become less cost effective than, say, denying me the medication i need to er... stay complete, shall we say. In other words when does it become cost effective to just saw my feet and legs off because it is cheaper than paying the $500+ in monthly drug expenses that i require? After all, right now I am 41, but really, what use does a 70 or 80 year old need with legs?

I have to say, I am terrified.

What's likely to happen is the government will have a set standard for your treatment that is the cheapest available. You may, for example, have better BS regulation with a pump but the government will decide shots are cheaper for them.

Someone could put these questions to Barney Frank, and be accused nonetheless of resembling a piece of furniture! ;-)

re: #152 albusteve

"TAKE A LEFT AT THE NEXT CAPILLARY"!!!
(Disney World)

Wait-- what's that brown stuff up ahead?///

re: #149 Occasional Reader

No, just punnin' on your Coretex/Goretex typo. (Cerebral "coretex", etc.)

Actually, I've invested in pretty great cold weather outerwear over the last several years. Global cooling... bring it, beeyotches!

skin is an organ...

re: #140 Occasional Reader

Hook me up with a Raquel Welch (circa 1969) lookalike, a submarine, and a miniaturizing machine, and I'm all over it.

That would be a fantastic voyage.

re: #144 Dianna

On the whole--it's not.

re: #160 LudwigVanQuixote

For some reason this thread has me thinking of

. Black Rabbits and all that...

Silflay hraka, you damn liberal.

/

Keith, I put up a post and linked back to your page. Other lizards with blogs might want to do the same. This would be a great page to have at the top of the stack if someone googles "health care bill"

Keith-

I think most of these questions could be placed in other categories:

Miscellaneous Specifics

· Could you clarify the portion of the house bill that directs money to "underrepresented minorities" for targeted funding? [place under funding]

· Will your health care plan force care providers to clearly explain the price of their procedures beforehand, like those in every other industry must do? [place under quality of healthcare professionals and services]

· Where in this legislation can I find mechanisms to detect and stem fraud and abuse? [place under is government going to make this worse?]

· Why does the plan start after you leave office? [see above or Do you trust this plan?]

· Why are businesses mandated to cover 60-72% of their employees’ premiums or be fined by the government? [business consequences]

· Will we get the same retirement plan at what congress pays for? [place under Do you trust this plan?]

If you generalized your headings a bit, you could probably avoid a misc. section altogether.

re: #123 Thanos

If you go to the writers page for his site you will see quite an assortment of like minded nutballs.

I was just looking at that. Interesting crazies out there.

Here's the SCARIEST part of the proposed Heath Care Reform , IMHO

It won;t be whats in the bill that worries me, per se. It's what happens AFTER the President signs it

Thats when the Regulatory Commissions get ahold of it and start putting in the "how to's" and "where for's" of it. Even if you have a copy of the final signed bill in hand, you still may/ will not know whats really "in" it

re: #167 Occasional Reader

Silflay hraka, you damn liberal.

/

Well, bless my bottom!

/

re: #155 albusteve

excuse me?...the whole human race?

It's all right, really. Stories like this lead me to exaggerated and quite black despair. I get over it fairly quickly, and remember that there really aren't that many bad people out there.

Let me move a question, answer it, and reask it.

"Why is there no tort reform in the bill?"

I will presume an answer, which is that any services rendered under the bill will be "under the penumbra" of a federal law, and you can't sue the government (except under limited circumstances, etc).

So I would ask instead, what will this bill do that will BETTER help the medical profession watch for incompetence and remedy it - or will this be like the teachers' unions that protect all players at all costs, no matter the costs to the customers?

Ramadan wants to take Rotterdam to court

Tariq Ramadan is furious about the way he has been cast aside by the Rotterdam city government. The Islamic scholar was fired from his job as integration adviser on Tuesday because of a talk show he hosts on Iranian state TV.

re: #170 Killgore Trout

I was just looking at that. Interesting crazies out there.

Yeah, you've got Baldwin of the constitution party, the dangerous guy from american resistance, etc.

re: #158 Occasional Reader

Sheesh... you're starting to sound like the Mark Twain character in that infamously creepy claymation "children's" t.v. show.

I'll get over it.

re: #140 Occasional Reader

Hook me up with a Raquel Welch (circa 1969) lookalike, a submarine, and a miniaturizing machine, and I'm all over it.

Just be sure to get hooked up with Raquel before the miniaturizing machine. Unless, of course, you're really into mountain climbing.///

re: #128 jill e

From The Moderate Voice:

Congressman Anthony Weiner (D-NY) expressed regret about President Obama’s lack of enthusiasm for insisting on a public plan and his general unwillingness to go “far enough” in restructuring health care in this country. Joe Scarborough got him to rip away the mask entirely and ask him if he was looking to completely eliminate private health insurance in America. You know… those plans that 83% of us have and we’re being assured that we can keep them if we like them?

That's the jackpot link of the day.

So, my new question would be "Do you want Medicare for all Americans?"

This interview clinches it for me. I dare anyone to deny what the plan of the progressives really is. It's nationalized, socialized what ever you want to call it, it's totally government run healthcare.

Bingo. Jill, you are wonderful.

re: #140 Occasional Reader

Hook me up with a Raquel Welch (circa 1969) lookalike, a submarine, and a miniaturizing machine, and I'm all over it.

One of my friends went to Yale. We are all the same age. He was a physics major there when Jennifer Connelly was there.

He and a bunch of classmates were working on a QM assignment in the library when she cam in wearing a tank top, no bra and ripped jeans.

He said that the table the were working on suddenly levitated by a few inches.

re: #173 Dianna

It's all right, really. Stories like this lead me to exaggerated and quite black despair. I get over it fairly quickly, and remember that there really aren't that many bad people out there.

I didn't believe you for an hour...

re: #144 Dianna

I am afraid to start speculating. This is the sort of story that starts me thinking that the human race isn't worth spitting on.

You seem to place a high value on your saliva.
/

re: #135 Wendya

Correct, but you don't have to own a car. Under Obamacare, you do have to purchase health care whether you want it or not. BTW, I don't like the car insurance mandates either but driving a car on public roads isn't a right.

I share your feelings on this, but to me, it appears to differ only in degree. And I think one could argue that getting treated for free (or less than the insured among us) isn't a right either, and there is a cost for that as well that someone has to bear.

re: #173 Dianna

Yeah--but who picks on a kids in leg braces? C'mon.

Back on topic:

While the technical questions about the plan are pertinent, it's important not to allow the bigger philosophical question about the role of government in our lives to be dismissed as mere "ideology". This is a favorite liberal tactic; try to frame every argument about their Ginormous Government proposals as merely being a "practical", technocratic discussion, and paint anyone who is opposed to the whole idea as being an "ideologue" who can be dismissed.

re: #174 itellu3times

Let me move a question, answer it, and reask it.

"Why is there no tort reform in the bill?"

I will presume an answer, which is that any services rendered under the bill will be "under the penumbra" of a federal law, and you can't sue the government (except under limited circumstances, etc).

So I would ask instead, what will this bill do that will BETTER help the medical profession watch for incompetence and remedy it - or will this be like the teachers' unions that protect all players at all costs, no matter the costs to the customers?

The 'opponents" of tort reform point to a study 9sorry, I don't have it) that shows theres only like 1% of all med costs attributed to lawerys/ law suits.

Seems to me as if 1% of TRILLIONS would be a good place to start

re: #122 beblebrox

If you want to be more specific under the what is covered section I for one am scared to death about diabetes treatment. I am a Type 1 diabetic and need several daily shots of insulin to survive. At what point is it no longer cost effective to keep me alive. Or worse yet when does someone decide the cost of maintainance treatment become less cost effective than, say, denying me the medication i need to er... stay complete, shall we say. In other words when does it become cost effective to just saw my feet and legs off because it is cheaper than paying the $500+ in monthly drug expenses that i require? After all, right now I am 41, but really, what use does a 70 or 80 year old need with legs?

I have to say, I am terrified.

In a similar vein (no body-part pun intended), I require two doses per day of a particular medicine. Unilaterally, the VA cut the standard dosage for all patients, nationwide, back to one dose per day. Well, my doctor had tried one dose per day when I first started the medication, and determined it wasn't sufficient. So, I had to get a non-VA doctor, at my expense, to write me a prescription for the additional amount per day, which I purchased out of pocket until my doctor could convince the VA pharmacy bureaucrats that I required two doses.

God help us under government run healthcare, it will be just like the VA.

re: #180 LudwigVanQuixote

He said that the table the were working on suddenly levitated by a few inches.

Evenly?

re: #179 Walter L. Newton

I could have told you that a month ago...really tho you guys have done yoemans duty tearing this bill apart...that's why I'm here

re: #180 LudwigVanQuixote

One of my friends went to Yale. We are all the same age. He was a physics major there when Jennifer Connelly was there.

He and a bunch of classmates were working on a QM assignment in the library when she cam in wearing a tank top, no bra and ripped jeans.

He said that the table the were working on suddenly levitated by a few inches.

Ms. Connelly is a hottie. No Adriana Lima, mind you... but a hottie.

re: #188 calcajun

Evenly?

Well not all men are created equal in all departments...

Hey is yma in here? The other day she made what I thought was a great observation about how this public health care plan could have an adverse effect on charitable organizations. I searched Keith's page for "charitable and didn't find anything. I think that observation might be turned into a good question Keith. I'll have to go back and see if I can find it.

btw, good job Mr. Gabryelski.

Where's my free cheese?

re: #195 Ben Hur

Where's my free cheese?

The rats eated it.

re: #195 Ben Hur

Where's my free cheese?

It's only served with the whine.

re: #181 albusteve

I didn't believe you for an hour...

Time for the "What?" button.

Don Hewitt, Exec Producer of 60 Minutes has passed

re: #144 Dianna

I am afraid to start speculating. This is the sort of story that starts me thinking that the human race isn't worth spitting on.

That's simply not right. A lot of the human race is worth spitting on, unless they're on fire.

re: #195 Ben Hur

Where's my free cheese?

You can't have it. It's bad for you and besides, you've been very intolerant to lactose recently.

re: #190 Occasional Reader

Ms. Connelly is a hottie. No Adriana Lima, mind you... but a hottie.

Actually, at the risk of appearing infinitely sexist and facing the wrath of my beloved, I will say that she, Natalie Portman and Scarlett Johanson are the three nice Jewish girls who have set my mind to wandering the most...

re: #199 sattv4u2

Hope he gets to say "hi" to Walter.

re: #9 Cannadian Club Akbar

Howz 'bout we email the list to all major papers, news outlets, congresscritters and senators? Easy to read, well put together. Kudos to Keith.

Makes entirely too much good sense!

Besides, the media wouldn't have all the hoopla of the HC Town Hall crowds to hawk daily, and we'd be forced to actually be focused on the issues/merits involved, and that's the last thing Obama/Co. wants - why else would they have tried to rush it through before the August Congressional break w/ input or discussion of a 1,000 + page bill?

Great job by Keith Gabryelski.

re: #182 itellu3times

You seem to place a high value on your saliva.
/

There are...moments.

re: #201 calcajun

You can't have it. It's bad for you and besides, you've been very intolerant to lactose recently.

We must put a stop to lactose intolerance in this country so that we may have a free cheese debate.

/

re: #185 Occasional Reader

Back on topic:

While the technical questions about the plan are pertinent, it's important not to allow the bigger philosophical question about the role of government in our lives to be dismissed as mere "ideology". This is a favorite liberal tactic; try to frame every argument about their Ginormous Government proposals as merely being a "practical", technocratic discussion, and paint anyone who is opposed to the whole idea as being an "ideologue" who can be dismissed.

well duh?...nicely worded tho...this is pure socialism, brazen and in our face...I suppose all the dialog is necessary to get people on board...same with the cash for clunker thing...just another pig with lipstick

“Universal health care”, as American as:

NOAA: predicting the paths of both hurricanes and tornado cells to help mitigate their impact on the material damage to life, limb and property;

FEMA: regardless of how well managed, providing both short and long term support to those whose livelihoods have been destroyed by natural disasters;

Medicare: providing for the medical care of those retired citizens who could not receive medical care without it and supplementing those with marginal pension related medical care;

Social Security: providing either subsistent funds for someone who retired with no other income, another marginal income stream or an income stream that is insufficient to sustain one’s other retirement income streams to maintain a livelihood that they had become accustomed to while working, full-time [unfortunately, plus those that are well-off enough that it is all gravy for what they leave to their kids];

Intra-State Highway system: if the value of this one needs to be explained to anyone reading this, they are, IMHO, brain dead.

US Coast Guard: Saving boaters, sailors, fishermen and commercial shipping for generations … to the libertarians; should this be a function left to the private sector?

Whatever. Any modern advanced society will have these types of programs that are led and managed by a centralized, Federal Gov’t … any other model [IMHO] is flawed and will not be competitive against other countries in this day and age; both economically and socially.

BTW, socialism, by definition, is where the Gov’t owns and manages industry. All the current proposed Universal Health Care reforms in the US have NO language that advocates this policy [the US Gov't will not own Hospitals or employ health-care employees ... that would be the VA ... which most of those in the GOP consider "the best medical care provided to anyone in this world"; probably second to that that they receive as Gov't employees ... the irony is almost awe-inspiring ... I am sure that will soon to be squelched by the inane responses to the logic of this post : )]

Whatever … those led to the trough; who can’t see beyond their own ideology; won’t get it; they will just be doctrinal sheep that “bbbaaay” the words put into their heads while they don’t actually take the time to pragmatically study all sides of the issue and think about the ramifications of their parroting the rhetoric that they get from the sources of information they only ascribe to … those sources of info that support their own ingrained belief structure. Cement.

re: #195 Ben Hur

Where's my free cheese?

Have you gotten permission from the government to eat cheese? After all, it might stop up your heart.//

re: #205 Dianna

There are...moments.

/leans forward

re: #184 calcajun

Yeah--but who picks on a kids in leg braces? C'mon.

What?

I don't get it? I'm lost? Is there a reference?

re: #205 Dianna

There are...moments.

Please expand on the general principle at length.

re: #198 Dianna

Time for the "What?" button.

jus kidding...I'm nearing my cups again

re: #186 sattv4u2

The 'opponents" of tort reform point to a study (sorry, I don't have it) that shows there's only like 1% of all med costs attributed to lawyers/ law suits.

Sounds waaay low. Betcha that's just judgements, not attorneys fees, malpractice insurance, unnecessary treatments done to cover the ass, nor the converse, consequential damages of the incompetent doctors practicing.

I don't know what a better number would be, but I'm guessing upwards of 10%.

re: #202 LudwigVanQuixote

Shows how ignorant I am-- "Connelly" does not sound Jewish. I thought "Black" Irish. (BTW--that means some Spanish blood from the Armada survivors)

re: #206 OldLineTexan

We must put a stop to lactose intolerance in this country so that we may have a free cheese debate.

/

But you're one of the nutcases that will show up at the Cheese Town Hall with a grater strapped to your hip, aren't you?!

re: #202 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually, at the risk of appearing infinitely sexist and facing the wrath of my beloved, I will say that she, Natalie Portman and Scarlett Johanson are the three nice Jewish girls who have set my mind to wandering the most...

I didn't realize any of them were Jewish (except I recall something about the delectable Natalie speaking up on behalf of Israel once).

Keith's site is great (thanks for your hard work), but honestly, I'm skeptical that we will get the answers before the democrats shove this thing through. Even if we do get some of the answers, I have a bad feeling about such a massive expansion of government regulation and control. Just goes against my philosophy.

re: #212 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Please expand on the general principle at length.

people...
people who need people...
are the (SMASH!)

re: #130 Dianna

these peeps aren't our friends they will use the dingbats to club anyone to the right of the zero.

re: #212 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Please expand on the general principle at length.

Best not. It leads to "Where's the razor blade?" moments.

re: #216 Occasional Reader

But you're one of the nutcases that will show up at the Cheese Town Hall with a grater strapped to your hip, aren't you?!

The pizza of oppression must be topped from time to time with the cheese of liberty.

Baron de Roquefort

re: #217 Occasional Reader

I didn't realize any of them were Jewish (except I recall something about the delectable Natalie speaking up on behalf of Israel once).

believe Natalie is Israeli, the others not so much.

re: #208 enigma3535

Yes, we're all stupid "sheep" and you're the only real, actual human being here. Thanks for clearing that up.

re: #216 Occasional Reader

But you're one of the nutcases that will show up at the Cheese Town Hall with a grater strapped to your hip, aren't you?!

How about a high powered can of Cheese Whiz?
/Hi OR! Hope you are well

re: #222 OldLineTexan

The pizza of oppression must be topped from time to time with the cheese of liberty.

Baron de Roquefort

Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise!

re: #141 albusteve

in other words...
kill the bill

kill THIS effort of passing a bill.

One very good thing has come out of this whole dog's breakfast. People are paying attention to the detail before there is a chance of congress cramming it down our throats.

People didn't pay attention to Hillary Care until it went to the floor. Remember Al D'Amoto's chart? Oh, yeah, there was the Harry and Louise ad campaign, but Hillary did all of it behind closed doors. that was before the days of Thomas (Library of Contress tracking system) and the innernut.

I don't have any idea what the final outcome will be. But I will say one thing. I have rarely been more proud to be an American than I am right now. To be 'proud' of something means that you have earned something. Well, I have earned my place in this and I am proud of it. Win or lose.

Much should change about access to health care. Tort reform is part of it. Interstae portability is part of it.

What I have NEVER seen is this: Tort reform can be done at the state level. Indiana did it. Why do we need the feds to do it? What are the actual economic outlines of interstae portability? I have seen nothing about that.

To take the Rachel Maddow line: "There are people who want health care reform and there are people who don't even want the discussion" is NOT a premise I will validate.

I want reform. I do not want it done at the expense of my liberty.

And that reminds me: remember all those pro-choice people who want the gov't to keep their hands off their bodies?

Where the fuck are they now?

Oh. It's YOUR body.

Nevermind.

re: #185 Occasional Reader

Back on topic:

While the technical questions about the plan are pertinent, it's important not to allow the bigger philosophical question about the role of government in our lives to be dismissed as mere "ideology". This is a favorite liberal tactic; try to frame every argument about their Ginormous Government proposals as merely being a "practical", technocratic discussion, and paint anyone who is opposed to the whole idea as being an "ideologue" who can be dismissed.

I think the two 'point of order' questions are very important for that reason.

- What constitutional grounds does the federal government have to proceed with any form of control over health care?

- The president has accused insurance companies of discriminating against people for various reasons such as pre-existing condition. Do you believe that government should act to restructure any existing contracts other than insurance contracts? If so, what is the legal basis for doing so?

re: #128 jill e

From The Moderate Voice:

Congressman Anthony Weiner (D-NY) expressed regret about President Obama’s lack of enthusiasm for insisting on a public plan and his general unwillingness to go “far enough” in restructuring health care in this country. Joe Scarborough got him to rip away the mask entirely and ask him if he was looking to completely eliminate private health insurance in America. You know… those plans that 83% of us have and we’re being assured that we can keep them if we like them?

It is nice to hear someon be clear about it. An actual debate can then ensue.

re: #203 calcajun

Hope he gets to say "hi" to Walter.

I didn't even know him?

re: #208 enigma3535

And by the way, your "argument", such as it is, is downright laughable.

re: #221 Dianna

Best not. It leads to "Where's the razor blade?" moments.

Kinky

To sum up:
It's normally not a good idea to:
a) Bring a gun to a Presidential appearance
b) Prove your point by shouting
c) Make a white-face poster of the first black President
d) Conclude that any number of loons are representative of any number of non-loons

Why can't any health proposal be put to test in a pilot program?

I think that a good pilot program could be executed with using just the Federal employees.

Excellent site, Keith!
Excellent questions, Lizards!
Great work, indeed!

I'm sure that Congress will give as much attention to our concerns expressed in this compilation as they did to the health care bill.

re: #224 Occasional Reader

Yes, we're all stupid "sheep" and you're the only real, actual human being here. Thanks for clearing that up.

Hey, OR, hold my beer and watch this ...

Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and a lie.

/check his head

re: #229 karmic_inquisitor

The Jewish Weiner is engaged to the Muslim Huma, assistant to HRC, is he not?

re: #231 Occasional Reader

And by the way, your "argument", such as it is, is downright laughable.

commie Interstates...pffft!

Keith Gabryelski's work is exactly what the political debate needs, hats off to him & LGF.

I have not seen a better anti-idiot item for quite some time.

re: #221 Dianna

Best not. It leads to "Where's the razor blade?" moments.

Time for a Tom Lehrer line, from Bright College Days:

Soon we'll be out amid the cold world's strive
Soon we'll be sliding down the razor blade of life

(Taking a break from banging my head on the desk when Microsoft's example doesn't work and no one seems to have had the same problem, speaking of razor blades)

re: #231 Occasional Reader

Forgot the post office and Amtrak.

re: #208 enigma3535

“Universal health care”, as American as:

NOAA: predicting the paths of both hurricanes and tornado cells to help mitigate their impact on the material damage to life, limb and property;

If only the sitting president had taken their warnings seriously...

FEMA: regardless of how well managed, providing both short and long term support to those whose livelihoods have been destroyed by natural disasters;

If only the sitting president hadn't dropped the ball and also appointed a crony to the position.

Medicare: providing for the medical care of those retired citizens who could not receive medical care without it and supplementing those with marginal pension related medical care;

Absolutely.

Social Security: providing either subsistent funds for someone who retired with no other income, another marginal income stream or an income stream that is insufficient to sustain one’s other retirement income streams to maintain a livelihood that they had become accustomed to while working, full-time [unfortunately, plus those that are well-off enough that it is all gravy for what they leave to their kids];

Absolutely

Intra-State Highway system: if the value of this one needs to be explained to anyone reading this, they are, IMHO, brain dead.

Absolutely.

US Coast Guard: Saving boaters, sailors, fishermen and commercial shipping for generations … to the libertarians; should this be a function left to the private sector?

Absolutely.

Whatever. Any modern advanced society will have these types of programs that are led and managed by a centralized, Federal Gov’t … any other model [IMHO] is flawed and will not be competitive against other countries in this day and age; both economically and socially.

That's right. The common good needs to come into play also. Not everything has to be done for profit. There is a reason that we pay taxes and have a social contract.

This post was excellent IMHO. I think there should also be an equivalent set of questions to those who have a sort of religious faith in the "divine hand" of Adam Smith. I have yet to see a compelling argument that a national health insurance system in principle must be worse for the average American.

As to the way it would hurt the competition with the insurance companies, last I checked, Fed Ex and UPS were doing just fine.

You know - those who oppose Obamacare ought to simply co-opt the feminist protest cheer which they repeat when protesting the prospect of the government deciding who can have an abortion and when:

"Keep your hands
Off my body!"

re: #215 calcajun

Shows how ignorant I am-- "Connelly" does not sound Jewish. I thought "Black" Irish. (BTW--that means some Spanish blood from the Armada survivors)

Jewish mum.

re: #240 Kosh's Shadow

Time for a Tom Lehrer line, from Bright College Days:

Soon we'll be out amid the cold world's strive
Soon we'll be sliding down the razor blade of life

(Taking a break from banging my head on the desk when Microsoft's example doesn't work and no one seems to have had the same problem, speaking of razor blades)

Details?

re: #128 jill e

That rocks and you are bookmarked.

re: #228 jaunte

I loed this one:

- The president has accused insurance companies of discriminating against people for various reasons such as pre-existing condition. Do you believe that government should act to restructure any existing contracts other than insurance contracts? If so, what is the legal basis for doing so?

So unconstrained on the part of the democrats (which is unsurprising). Great question- I wonder which lizard asked it.

Truly a fantastic document. Thanks for putting this all together.

re: #242 LudwigVanQuixote

I loved the BDS stuff you worked in ... fantastic.

I had no idea GW Bush was the sole employee of the American people, or that living in a city that is largely under sea level was a Presidential decree, not a choice.

Thank you for clearing that up.

re: #242 LudwigVanQuixote

Adam Smith said in effect that the market would not work to a general benefit unless it was supported by a certain morality.

re: #234 babes

Why can't any health proposal be put to test in a pilot program?

I think that a good pilot program could be executed with using just the Federal employees.

Mass.

Tenn..

Hawaii.

They did.

re: #247 Sharmuta

Er- loved.

re: #241 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Forgot the post office and Amtrak.

Speaking of Amtrak... Previously on these pages, I've raved at what a comparatively great system the French train company's TGV is. Having now taken it somewhat recently, I have to say... okay, it's still a pretty good system, but it doesn't look like they're keeping up the trains all that well. They look rather long in the tooth. And I'd forgotten how cramped they are, even in First Class. Amtrak does win comparative points for comfort and legroom.

re: #245 Walter L. Newton

Details?

Loading custom performance counters; lodctr says "[keyname] is not formatted correctly" for every key in my ini file
My file looks like it is formatted the same as Microsoft's
Looking for the error finds lots of questions about fixing a corrupted performance counter database, but nothing on using lodctr except the example I already have.

re: #208 enigma3535

NOAA: Common Good, benefits all.
FEMA: Common Good
Medicare: Individual Good, pays the individual, Bankrupt, $35 Trillion in unfunded mandates.
Social Security: Individual Good, Ponzi scheme, bankrupt.
Intra-State Highway system: Common Good
US Coast Guard: Common Good.

Whatever...
The free market system which made us the most productive, has provided more things to more people worldwide more efficently, has invented more that benefits man kind more than ANOTHER OTHER SYSTEM EVER. Just doesn't cut it anymore I your esteemed opinion?

BTW, ...
See jill e's post up thread.

Whatever …
Life
Liberty
Property

re: #242 LudwigVanQuixote

It's the "invisible hand" - which is a metaphor - not the "divine hand."

re: #227 wahabicorridor

They are busy now telling us that it is our "Moral" duty to pass Obamacare. You know, the same ones who can't have religion involved with government. Well, this morality comes out of Christianity, the thing they despise - the irony. But, the US government has a higher moral duty not to bankrupt our Nation, in the name of Obamacare.

re: #242 LudwigVanQuixote

“Universal health care”, as American as:

That's right. The common good needs to come into play also. Not everything has to be done for profit. There is a reason that we pay taxes and have a social contract.

This post was excellent IMHO. I think there should also be an equivalent set of questions to those who have a sort of religious faith in the "divine hand" of Adam Smith. I have yet to see a compelling argument that a national health insurance system in principle must be worse for the average American.

As to the way it would hurt the competition with the insurance companies, last I checked, Fed Ex and UPS were doing just fine.

to sell cars?...all deals are of the table...the flipped out feds can do better than that with health insurance reform...by far...people don't want this intrusion, does that mean anything to you?