The Viper Militia and the Arizona Gun Stunt

US News • Views: 6,549

Yeesh. Here’s some more disturbing info on the gang of bedraggled militia freaks who staged the semi-automatic rifle goon show at the Obama rally in Phoenix, Arizona: Heavily-Armed ‘90s Militia, Linked To Anti-Obama Activist, Resisted ‘New World Order’.

Let’s delve a little bit deeper into the black helicopter-infested world of the Viper Militia — the 90’s era group whose members ended up in federal prison and whose most prominent friend and defender, Ernest Hancock, staged the show of arms-bearing at an Obama event Monday. …

Take Dean Pleasant, the Viper member whom Hancock called his good friend in an interview with TPMmuckraker yesterday. Pleasant couldn’t hold onto jobs at Kathy’s Donut Farm (too “lackadaisical,” even though he always brought his Glock to work) or a part-time gig at military supply store Allied Surplus (where he was caught stealing “inexpensive items”).

Others made a living with maintenance work and used furniture sales. They had formed a clique of like-minded gun enthusiasts with the name SHF — Suicidal Hippie F-cks — and even had t-shirts made with an SHF logo, according to contemporaneous press accounts.

None of which sounds so scary, until you consider the group’s stockpile of
unregistered submachine guns, over 500 pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, an “adapter for a grenade launcher,” a riot smoke grenade, dynamite, detonation cord, gas masks, body armor, a machine gun, 550-yard range rockets, and how-to manuals for grenade launchers and propellants.

Read the whole nasty story…

Jump to bottom

584 comments
1 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:03:25pm

Used furniture sales? Don't most people just get their used furniture from someone's curb?

2 latingent  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:06:11pm

And of course these are the `gun owners` that get all the attention and are ruining a debate they were winning.

3 Pianobuff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:07:59pm
Take Dean Pleasant, the Viper member whom Hancock called his good friend in an interview with TPMmuckraker yesterday. Pleasant couldn’t hold onto jobs at Kathy’s Donut Farm (too “lackadaisical,” even though he always brought his Glock to work) or a part-time gig at military supply store Allied Surplus (where he was caught stealing “inexpensive items”).

Does this mean he glocked in to work every day?

4 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:08:24pm

re: #1 Noam Sayin'

Used furniture sales? Don't most people just get their used furniture from someone's curb?

These are the guys that guarantee that you don't get a stinker like those guys in the Volkswagen commercial from about 10 years ago.

5 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:09:29pm
6 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:10:12pm

re: #5 buzzsawmonkey

Don't dare do that in NYC any more, with the bedbug epidemic.

Good thing DDT was banned, isn't it?

7 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:11:04pm
8 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:11:29pm

Gee, wouldn't it be a shame if the law-abiding gentlemen at the Obama rally ended up being nuts?

Nah, that couldn't happen...

9 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:12:09pm

I wondered out loud yesterday about the apparent self-absorption evident in the videos from the (wtf was it?) 44...something wacko group.

NOT to say they aren't dangerous, but this description of this bunch of clowns confirms that impression.

Problem is, some of these losers just might start believing the Mitty-esque fantasies and act upon them. Shit city!

10 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:12:26pm
11 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:12:50pm

It was Janet Napolitano who prosecuted these guys. DHS memo looks better all the time.

12 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:13:13pm

does Mr Pleasant wear Dockers?...wait til Pelosi gets onto these guys, the real deal

13 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:13:27pm

Even a stopped glock is right twice a day.

14 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:13:42pm

re: #10 MikeySDCA

There is an old theater maxim that if you hang a shotgun over the fireplace in the first act, you have to fire it before the final curtain.

Very interesting. I'd never heard that.

15 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:14:05pm
None of which sounds so scary, until you consider the group’s stockpile of
unregistered submachine guns, over 500 pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, an “adapter for a grenade launcher,” a riot smoke grenade, dynamite, detonation cord, gas masks, body armor, a machine gun, 550-yard range rockets, and how-to manuals for grenade launchers and propellants.

I wonder if any of the people who made excuses for this group would like to reconsider at this point. Their rhetoric that they're protecting their rights rings hollow when they seem intent on behaving in ways that suggest their a danger to fellow citizens, and the Constitution.

16 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:14:26pm

re: #10 MikeySDCA

There is an old theater maxim that if you hang a shotgun over the fireplace in the first act, you have to fire it before the final curtain.

That explains a lot about the way Hollywood treats guns.

17 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:14:39pm
The federal probe into the Vipers started when a deer hunter reported an encounter with a group of camouflage-clad, heavily-armed men in Tonto National Forest north of Phoenix.

That's appropriate. "Tonto" means stupid.

18 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:15:40pm

re: #17 wrenchwench

That's appropriate. "Tonto" means stupid.

Really?

19 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:15:59pm
20 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:16:36pm

re: #18 Cannadian Club Akbar

Really?

Sometimes translated as "idiot."

21 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:16:41pm

re: #9 pre-Boomer Marine brat
The Viper Militia were all arrested except one. There's no reason these 4409 couldn't do the same thing. The dude even posts bomb making instructions on his website.

22 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:16:44pm

re: #19 buzzsawmonkey

Yes.

So, was "Tonto" in the Lone Ranger meant as a jab?

23 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:16:51pm
24 Lincolntf  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:17:13pm

re: #22 Cannadian Club Akbar

How?

25 retief_99  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:17:19pm

Ok, Ok, so there are stupid criminals on both side of the political spectrum, who believe they are on some moral mission to save the country, (John Birch, Weathermen, Symbionese Liberation Army(sic), but I don't want them to detract from the true political trauma the country is going through now. The Congress is proposing things that will impact peoples way of life and they do not care what the majority of people think about it. I feel like I am living in a third world dictatorship.

26 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:17:20pm
27 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:17:27pm

re: #12 albusteve

does Mr Pleasant wear Dockers?...wait til Pelosi gets onto these guys, the real deal

Didn't Pelosi say Brooks Brothers suits? It has been my experience that real radicals love fancy threads

28 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:17:48pm
29 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:17:52pm

re: #24 Lincolntf

How?

Toward native Americans?

30 shortshrift  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:17:54pm

But surely this story - "a portrait of a feckless group of paranoid, right-wing, minimum wage-earning weapons enthusiasts -- 10 men and two women -- emerges from press accounts at the time" - tells us that they they were being watched and were arrested, charged and punished. Their arsenal was confiscated. What is the "deeper" message?

31 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:18:01pm

re: #22 Cannadian Club Akbar

So, was "Tonto" in the Lone Ranger meant as a jab?

I think "Kemosabe" means the same thing.

32 Lincolntf  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:18:20pm

re: #29 Cannadian Club Akbar

Lame attempt at joke on my part. Fergit it.

33 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:18:35pm

re: #17 wrenchwench

That's appropriate. "Tonto" means stupid.

I'm bummed...I had a cat named Tonto, he was run over

34 McSpiff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:18:55pm

re: #32 Lincolntf

Oooo that one hurt! Just got it.

35 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:19:03pm
36 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:19:13pm
Sometimes the militia members' paranoia degenerated into anti-Semitism.

Doesn't it always?

37 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:19:14pm

I'm not defending these wackos nor the nuts with the Obama as Hitler posters. However, it seems odd to me that Bawney Fwank gets a bunch of loons to his town hall, whereas Senator Charles Grassley says he has held four of them and everyone has been polite. Maybe it is the difference between Iowa and Massachusetts; maybe it is that Grassley talks with his constituents rather than at them.
There was a lot of crazy around the anti war protests 2002-2008 too.

38 avanti  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:19:23pm

re: #3 Pianobuff

Does this mean he glocked in to work every day?

I don't grok carrying a glock.

39 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:19:45pm

Pleasant couldn’t hold onto jobs at Kathy’s Donut Farm (too “lackadaisical,” even though he always brought his Glock to work)

Hey , how else do you think they make holes in the donuts!


or a part-time gig at military supply store Allied Surplus (where he was caught stealing “inexpensive items”).


Six pack of bullets was a lot less $$$ than a dozen donuts!

40 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:20:04pm

re: #32 Lincolntf

Lame attempt at joke on my part. Fergit it.

Mcspiff just helped. Me stoopid.

41 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:20:05pm

re: #15 Sharmuta

over 500 pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer


Here's what 50 grams can do...

42 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:20:34pm

re: #27 opnion

Didn't Pelosi say Brooks Brothers suits? It has been my experience that real radicals love fancy threads

something like that...these guys are gonna pour outa the woodwork now...big guns, big egos all ginned up

43 retief_99  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:20:37pm

re: #38 avanti

Para Ordnance, P-11 only way to fly

44 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:20:45pm

re: #19 buzzsawmonkey

Yes.

Puts a whole new light on the Lone Ranger.

Indian to his Chief: There's a white renegade lawman that wants a guide at the edge of camp.

Chief: I know, let's give him Tonto.

Indian (snickering): That's really funny Chief, but it might come back to bite us if we're not careful.

45 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:21:30pm
Libertarian Reason magazine published a lengthy piece in late 1996 arguing the charges against the Vipers were overblown.

Libertarians are getting scarier all the time.

46 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:21:46pm

re: #39 sattv4u2A thousand updings!

47 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:21:49pm
48 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:22:16pm

re: #36 Sharmuta

Doesn't it always?

and anybody else that does not fit their world view...expect the worst

49 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:23:13pm

re: #42 albusteve

something like that...these guys are gonna pour outa the woodwork now...big guns, big egos all ginned up

You have to wonder what their agenda is. Is it to say you can't take our guns or are they sending a message that they could get the President if the chose to?
You know that the Secret Service is all over these guys & they will screw up.

50 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:23:29pm

re: #37 Jim in Virginia

I'm not defending these wackos nor the nuts with the Obama as Hitler posters. However, it seems odd to me that Bawney Fwank gets a bunch of loons to his town hall, whereas Senator Charles Grassley says he has held four of them and everyone has been polite. Maybe it is the difference between Iowa and Massachusetts; maybe it is that Grassley talks with his constituents rather than at them.
There was a lot of crazy around the anti war protests 2002-2008 too.

Bawney Frank attracts the nuts. (Or is attracted to them, something like that.)
/

51 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:23:37pm

Come on now Cato. Bit much, don't you think?

52 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:24:14pm

re: #1 Noam Sayin'

Used furniture sales? Don't most people just get their used furniture from someone's curb?

I have a friend who makes over 200K. I've actually been with him when he pulled over and took something off of the curb.

53 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:24:35pm

re: #46 Jim in Virginia

ty

And as to your point Maybe it is the difference between Iowa and Massachusetts; maybe it is that Grassley talks with his constituents rather than at them.

As someone who had Frank as his congressman for years (and before that as his state rep) I can assure you it's the latter!

54 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:25:42pm

re: #25 retief_99

I feel like I am living in a third world dictatorship.

Then you look like you have no idea what you are talking about. Are you starving? Are the Feds kicking in your door at this moment to take you to a FEMA camp? Do you have any idea how stupid this rhetoric makes you look? A third world dictatorship?! Get a grip! How insulting to those living in a real dictatorship. Tell the people in Iran and North Korea.

55 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:25:43pm
56 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:26:15pm

re: #50 CyanSnowHawk
As Limbaugh said today, it was ironic that Fwank asked the woman at his town hall what planet she was from, as he spends most of his time hanging around Uranus.

57 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:26:24pm

re: #51 Charles

Come on now Cato. Bit much, don't you think?

You're right. I should have provided more context.

58 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:26:46pm

re: #49 opnion

I've wondered about that too. I really don't think even they understand why they're doing it but I think there are a couple reasons; 1) It creates a headache for security. They love to hassle law enforcement. 2) It intimidates people. They really don't have brilliant ideas they can argue with so they're trying to show that if they don't get their way they're capable of violence.

59 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:26:50pm

re: #53 sattv4u2

ty

And as to your point Maybe it is the difference between Iowa and Massachusetts; maybe it is that Grassley talks with his constituents rather than at them.

As someone who had Frank as his congressman for years (and before that as his state rep) I can assure you it's the latter!

Frank is very arrogant & abusive. In interviews he seems to look for confrontation.

60 yochanan  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:27:57pm

sorry but the site this is from if you take a close look is pushing this to take away from the health care debate, just look at some of the other links and pieces they were talking about.

i have no use for fascist kooks but i sort of wonder why this is being pushed by democrat sites like this one maybe to take the heat off of the zero's failing healtcare bill.

61 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:28:05pm

re: #49 opnion

You have to wonder what their agenda is. Is it to say you can't take our guns or are they sending a message that they could get the President if the chose to?
You know that the Secret Service is all over these guys & they will screw up.

all of that...they want their air time and they will get it...it just continues to escalate...an absurd expression of power, and I expect alot of copycat follow the leader behavior...this is not some C/C Joe at the town hall anymore

62 callahan23  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:28:22pm

re: #35 buzzsawmonkey

On the other hand, a "tanto" is a short Japanese sword.

Is that the short brother-sword of the 'Katama' ?

63 Lance o Lot  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:28:45pm

I don't know... I'm still having trouble getting worked up over those guys. Sure it was a publicity stunt, but they just stood around being obnoxious. None of them screamed at little old ladies, beat up disabled men passing out flags, grabbed other peoples' signs or tried to drown them out with bullhorns.

The tactics of the leftist aren't just intimidating, they are often confrontational and violent. And the police unions often look the other way. I haven't heard about any of these gun nuts running riot, so at least they are being civil. I would be intersted to know if any of the Looney Leftists have gone on any of their anger binges whenever any of the gun totters are around.

Nothing calms bullies like the sight of potential victims displaying arms. I don't have ATD alarm company signs in my yard; I have NRA stickers on my windows. Maybe, just maybe, despite their odious past, these guys provide passive protection to little old ladies in sneakers holding homemade signs that want their tiny voices to be heard.

I'm just sayin'...

64 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:29:03pm
65 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:30:11pm

re: #58 Killgore Trout

I've wondered about that too. I really don't think even they understand why they're doing it but I think there are a couple reasons; 1) It creates a headache for security. They love to hassle law enforcement. 2) It intimidates people. They really don't have brilliant ideas they can argue with so they're trying to show that if they don't get their way they're capable of violence.

Those are good points, but I think that it is intimidation & aimed at Obama. Doubtful that they woul act on it, or maybe even want to.
This could be a real stupid ego trip, but security has to take them seriously.

66 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:30:14pm

re: #25 retief_99

I feel like I am living in a third world dictatorship.

You wouldn't make it three minutes in a real third-world dictatorship.

And those guys at the AZ Obama rally would now be dead.

To paraphrase Barney Frank: It's a tribute to the First and Second Amendments and the rule of law in this country that you can make fatuous comparisons like that and those militia tools are still walking around to go postal another day. Though I presume they are now under, ahem, enhanced observation.

Count your blessings.

67 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:30:24pm

re: #64 buzzsawmonkey

Katana, with an "n." Yes.

Also a Suzuki Motorcycle?

68 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:30:43pm

re: #35 buzzsawmonkey

On the other hand, a "tanto" is a short Japanese sword.

I couldn't stomach one of those.

69 ryannon  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:30:50pm

Dumbest Post of the Day on a Really Dumb Sub-Forum:

The main site is one of the Net's premier precious metals traders, which is how and why it initially attracted my interest. But they also run a 'Bar & Grill' sub-forum where the regulars get together and obsess over the the International Jewish Conspiracy, Chem-Trails, the Illuminati and all the other usual suspects... subjects. There is a really foul hard-core group of Holocaust deniers, 'Khasar-European-Zionist-Israelis-Neocon' theorists and much, much worse.

But I digress...I thought the some of the people here might be interested in this post and its veritable Darwin Award potential:


Wide Angle
Member

Any one have a replica?

"I have a healthcare reform talk to attend tomorrow given by insurance and healthcare orgs. A rep from Rick Scott will be there repping CFPR. No one from the govt will be there. And since open carry isn't legal in my town I was wondering if anyone had a replica or where I could get one to take to the meeting. An Ak 47 or an Ar would be really cool to take and see their faces when they see it when Q and A comes up."

70 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:30:51pm

re: #63 Lance o Lot

You think that the little old ladies weren't scared of them? I'm kind of thinking they were.

71 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:31:07pm

re: #62 callahan23

Is that the short brother-sword of the 'Katama' ?

Katana -- with an "n"

72 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:31:11pm

re: #63 Lance o Lot

Do you think if they are ignored they won't escalate?

/Not so sure of that myself, but the media do love cast these guys as mainstream conservatives.

73 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:31:16pm

re: #59 opnion

Frank is very arrogant & abusive. In interviews he seems to look for confrontation.

He's always out to prove that he's the smartest person in the room

74 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:31:21pm

re: #61 albusteve

all of that...they want their air time and they will get it...it just continues to escalate...an absurd expression of power, and I expect alot of copycat follow the leader behavior...this is not some C/C Joe at the town hall anymore

I thimnk that your right. Face time on TV & felling real important.

75 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:31:34pm

re: #63 Lance o Lot

The tactics of the leftist aren't just intimidating, they are often confrontational and violent.

Yeah- nothing intimidating or violent about unregistered submachine guns, over 500 pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, an “adapter for a grenade launcher,” a riot smoke grenade, dynamite, detonation cord, gas masks, body armor, a machine gun, 550-yard range rockets, and how-to manuals for grenade launchers and propellants.

76 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:31:38pm
77 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:31:54pm

re: #71 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Katana -- with an "n"

Sorry, buzz, you beat me to it.

78 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:32:49pm

re: #76 buzzsawmonkey

I know nothing about motorcycles.

I could, however, re-do "If You Knew Susie Like I Know Susie" into a Suzuki jingle in about five minutes.

Pop a wheelie!

79 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:32:59pm

re: #65 opnion

Doubtful that they woul act on it, or maybe even want to.


It's tough to say how likely it would be that one of them would take action. Even if 1% of these nuts are prone to action we still have a huge problem on our hands.

80 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:33:23pm

re: #76 buzzsawmonkey

I know nothing about motorcycles.

I could, however, re-do "If You Knew Susie Like I Know Susie" into a Suzuki jingle in about five minutes.


From the time stamp on this post...GO!!

81 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:33:25pm

re: #69 ryannon

An Ak 47 or an Ar would be really cool to take and see their faces when they see it when Q and A comes up."

Unless he takes one of those orange-barreled "I'm just a toy" mock-ups, it may not be only their faces he sees.

82 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:33:47pm
83 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:33:59pm

Mrs. Hawk just brought in a mail order catalog with the Obama Chia Pet on the cover.
What On Earth?
I thought they quit selling those.

84 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:34:35pm
85 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:34:54pm

re: #17 wrenchwench

That's appropriate. "Tonto" means stupid.

Did the Lone Ranger's sidekick know this?

86 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:35:11pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

It's tough to say how likely it would be that one of them would take action. Even if 1% of these nuts are prone to action we still have a huge problem on our hands.

Self-delusion can (possibly) lead to feelings of power. If just one of those nuts gets hooked on the emotional rush ... awshit.

87 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:35:19pm
88 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:35:20pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

It's tough to say how likely it would be that one of them would take action. Even if 1% of these nuts are prone to action we still have a huge problem on our hands.

THe fact that they are not just strutting round outside a bar with their weapons, but going where the President is, is disturbing.
You don't know when one might act out, but the Secret Service will protect Obama.

89 Lincolntf  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:35:27pm

re: #83 CyanSnowHawk

Stock up.
In the future, Chia Obama's will be used as currency...

90 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:36:09pm

4409, for when a little bit of crazy is not enough crazy.

91 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:36:29pm

re: #69 ryannon
He should just carry a sign that says "Arrest me and haul my sorry stupid ass off to the klink."

92 callahan23  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:36:36pm

re: #64 buzzsawmonkey

Katana, with an "n." Yes.

And: re: #71 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Katana -- with an "n"

My PIMF moment of the day, thanks.
And yes the Katana is also the name of a Suzuki motorbike.

93 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:37:30pm

Very OT: THis show might be of interest to some lizards...
Jamie at Home

Jamie at Home is a television programme that provides the audience with useful recipes and tips for cooking. Presented by Jamie Oliver, the show premiered in the United Kingdom on Channel 4 on August 7, 2007. The series is also airing on Food Network Canada and began airing in the United States on Food Network on January 6, 2008.

Each week, Jamie uses a different cooking ingredient which has been grown organically at his home in rural Essex, UK. The show is produced by Fresh One Productions Ltd 2007 and actually shot at his home. The theme music of Jamie at Home is My World by Tim Kay.

Worth watching. He has some good ideas.

94 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:37:30pm
95 Athos  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:37:48pm

These are some seriously effed up people...

re: #63 Lance o Lot

Oh, and regarding -

Nothing calms bullies like the sight of potential victims displaying arms. I don't have ATD alarm company signs in my yard; I have NRA stickers on my windows. Maybe, just maybe, despite their odious past, these guys provide passive protection to little old ladies in sneakers holding homemade signs that want their tiny voices to be heard.

Nothing stands up to bullies like a refusal to be bullied. ADT alarm signs, NRA stickers, fine - it's benign and a subtle form of counter-intimidation...but these types of arms, this set of beliefs, and we're talking about a group that has nothing good or redeeming about them as far as I am concerned. I can't stand bullies from the hard left or hard left...or those who make excuses for them.

96 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:37:51pm

re: #83 CyanSnowHawk

Mrs. Hawk just brought in a mail order catalog with the Obama Chia Pet on the cover.
What On Earth?
I thought they quit selling those.

I got an Obama Chia, ShamWow & a snuggie package at real deep discount. Ok, I didn't

97 Lance o Lot  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:38:05pm

re: #75 Sharmuta


Which one of them were carring all of that stuff? I must have missed that on CNN and Fox.

Guilt by association normally doesn't stand up in court, only politics.

98 Athos  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:39:19pm

re: #95 Athos

*hard right not a double hard left - - - PIMF

99 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:39:28pm

re: #92 callahan23

My PIMF moment of the day, thanks.
And yes the Katana is also the name of a Suzuki motorbike.

Your penance is to watch the entire Musashi Miyamoto trilogy at one sitting.

:D

100 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:40:26pm

re: #89 Lincolntf

Stock up.
In the future, Chia Obama's will be used as currency...

No, I think that they will be worshiped in a very hip New Age Religion.

101 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:40:39pm

Is Biden Looking Ahead to 2016?

Vice President Joe Biden has proven his mettle within the Obama administration, according to an article from the Los Angeles Times, but his aspirations don't end there.

"Biden's ambitions go beyond serving as an influential vice president," write Peter Nicholas and Paul Richter. "He doesn't necessarily believe his political career has peaked. Aides said he might go for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2016. He would be 74 upon taking office, but his staff insists that's not too old."

/delusional

102 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:40:41pm

Goody! 100 comments!

I have a suggestion for an InfoLink ad on the Registration threads.

A soap ad could be inserted where Charles says, "Don't be a sock puppet. Stinky hates sock puppets."

It would detergents (though it probably wouldn't faze the lady trolls.)

104 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:40:58pm

re: #97 Lance o Lot

This is politics. No one is saying they broke the law, but plenty of people are defending them. If you want to defend them, be my guest, but they are dangerous fringe kooks.

105 retief_99  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:41:03pm

Wow I must have made people mad, it's OK, I only worry about the opinions of my loved ones. I am pretty sure I know what I want to believe and what I want to think, so I don't lose much sleep over what other people say about me. When someone stoops to name calling during a discussion it usually means they can't think of anything intelligent to say or they realize they are losing.

106 esch  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:41:07pm

re: #99 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Your penance is to watch the entire Musashi Miyamoto trilogy at one sitting.

:D

Oh Kama, that's not nice.

107 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:41:08pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

It's tough to say how likely it would be that one of them would take action. Even if 1% of these nuts are prone to action we still have a huge problem on our hands.

trying to get into their head is a crap shoot...lots of people own alot of firepower...most probably just shoot the stuff legally and don't have an opinion of the feds one way or the other...then there is firepower with an attitude toward the feds, fewer but significant...and then there are those that feel scammed and ripped off and carry a serious grudge...fewer yet but it only takes one...so I agree with you about the numbers...there is no doubt in my mind that someone will do a very bad thing, probably not shoot the POTUS but nevertheless something horrific...all the pieces are in place

108 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:42:14pm

re: #105 retief_99

You don't lose much sleep. So- your dirt floor is pretty comfortable then?

109 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:42:20pm

re: #88 opnion

THe fact that they are not just strutting round outside a bar with their weapons, but going where the President is, is disturbing.
You don't know when one might act out, but the Secret Service will protect Obama.

it would be extremely difficult to shoot the president, I don't think that will happen

110 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:42:21pm
111 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:42:40pm

re: #103 Walter L. Newton

Nice catch.

112 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:42:44pm

re: #102 pre-Boomer Marine brat

What's with the 100 comments thing?

113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:43:01pm

re: #112 Sharmuta

Waiting to go OT.

114 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:43:21pm

re: #113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Waiting to go OT.

Why- others don't see the need to do so.

115 retief_99  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:43:31pm

re: #108 Sharmuta

The nic thing about dirt floors is they are easy to replace.

116 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:43:46pm

re: #103 Walter L. Newton

Firms with Obama ties profit from health push

There is nothing all that surprisng here. These guys, including Obama cut their teeth in Chicago politics.
IMO, this is scratching the surface.

117 yochanan  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:43:56pm

One of the Indians apparently had a penchant for drinking after the children had gone to sleep. Sometimes he would get rowdy and the other Indians would call him "tonto." This meant "wild one."

in spanish they say it means fool.

118 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:43:59pm

re: #115 retief_99

I bet they are.

119 retief_99  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:44:11pm

Oops nice, sorry, fat ugly fingers.

120 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:46:57pm

re: #103 Walter L. Newton

Firms with Obama ties profit from health push

Since everyone told me there was no problem with Halliburton, Blackwater, and the Carlyle Group profiting wildly under Dick Cheney's benevolent tutelage, I shall politely decline to get exercised about this.

121 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:47:35pm

re: #109 albusteve

it would be extremely difficult to shoot the president, I don't think that will happen

I don't either, But where was he holding a press confernce on a roof top?
I want to say somewhere in the Caribbean.
His entire torso was exposed & there were hills behind him offering cover & concealment. A sniper with the right rifle I think could have pulled it off.
The Secret Service must have been going out of their minds.

122 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:48:18pm
123 esch  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:48:49pm

re: #104 Sharmuta

This is politics. No one is saying they broke the law, but plenty of people are defending them. If you want to defend them, be my guest, but they are dangerous fringe kooks.

I'm more concerned about union thugs than a relatively small number of far right wing kooks. There are a LOT of them, most of them aren't rocket scientists and seem to be rather easily manipulated.

And yes, I know a few.

124 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:49:09pm

re: #120 Cato the Elder

Since everyone told me there was no problem with Halliburton, Blackwater, and the Carlyle Group profiting wildly under Dick Cheney's benevolent tutelage, I shall politely decline to get exercised about this.

Fine. Why are you telling me this, since I don't have much note with any of the crooks that we call politicians?

125 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:49:17pm

re: #112 Sharmuta

What's with the 100 comments thing?

Kind trying not to go "OT" before then.

126 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:49:26pm

re: #122 taxfreekiller

Barney Frank is nothing more than a loud mouthed lout, at best.

TOTKO

127 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:49:32pm

re: #120 Cato the Elder

Since everyone told me there was no problem with Halliburton, Blackwater, and the Carlyle Group profiting wildly under Dick Cheney's benevolent tutelage, I shall politely decline to get exercised about this.

Haliburton and the Carlyle group only "profited wildly" from 2001 and on?

Damn ,, I was sure they made ooodles of (gov't) money during the 90's also!

128 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:50:04pm

re: #121 opnion

Obama also makes these surprise runs out to get burgers or pizza. I really do worry about the guy sometimes.

129 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:50:14pm

re: #121 opnion

I don't either, But where was he holding a press confernce on a roof top?
I want to say somewhere in the Caribbean.
His entire torso was exposed & there were hills behind him offering cover & concealment. A sniper with the right rifle I think could have pulled it off.
The Secret Service must have been going out of their minds.

don't know...the SS has to maximize very event and possibility tho...if they do it would be practically impossible imo

130 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:50:36pm

re: #123 esch

I'm more concerned about union thugs than a relatively small number of far right wing kooks. There are a LOT of them, most of them aren't rocket scientists and seem to be rather easily manipulated.

And yes, I know a few.

Do union thugs typically have stockpiles of unregistered submachine guns, over 500 pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, an “adapter for a grenade launcher,” a riot smoke grenade, dynamite, detonation cord, gas masks, body armor, a machine gun, 550-yard range rockets, and how-to manuals for grenade launchers and propellants?

No? Okay then.

131 Bloodnok  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:50:51pm

re: #123 esch

I'm more concerned about union thugs than a relatively small number of far right wing kooks. There are a LOT of them, most of them aren't rocket scientists and seem to be rather easily manipulated.

And yes, I know a few.

And this is supposed to show that they are less capable of violence?

132 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:50:56pm

re: #128 Killgore Trout

Obama also makes these surprise runs out to get burgers or pizza. I really do worry about the guy sometimes.

Didn't Clinton do the same with Big Macs?

133 yochanan  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:51:24pm
134 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:51:37pm
135 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:51:44pm

re: #125 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Kind trying not to go "OT" before then.

Why? It doesn't seem to be a problem.

136 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:51:53pm

re: #103 Walter L. Newton

Firms with Obama ties profit from health push

Surely not in this new age of transparency!
/Don't call me Shirley.

137 Lincolntf  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:51:57pm

re: #132 Cannadian Club Akbar

Didn't Clinton do the same with Big MacsChicks?

138 brookly red  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:52:23pm

re: #130 Sharmuta

Do union thugs typically have stockpiles of unregistered submachine guns, over 500 pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, an “adapter for a grenade launcher,” a riot smoke grenade, dynamite, detonation cord, gas masks, body armor, a machine gun, 550-yard range rockets, and how-to manuals for grenade launchers and propellants?

No? Okay then.

/Hmmm, that sounds more like drug dealers...

139 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:52:45pm

re: #137 Lincolntf

I have a joke. Not gonna say it.

140 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:53:16pm

re: #132 Cannadian Club Akbar

Didn't Clinton do the same with Big Macs Interns?

ftfy

141 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:53:34pm

re: #124 Walter L. Newton

Fine. Why are you telling me this, since I don't have much note with any of the crooks that we call politicians?

You call 'em crooks? I call 'em whores.

142 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:53:35pm

re: #137 Lincolntf

gmta

143 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:53:43pm

re: #130 Sharmuta

Do union thugs typically have stockpiles of unregistered submachine guns, over 500 pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, an “adapter for a grenade launcher,” a riot smoke grenade, dynamite, detonation cord, gas masks, body armor, a machine gun, 550-yard range rockets, and how-to manuals for grenade launchers and propellants?

No? Okay then.

yes, I'm sure they're are well over armed union people...they are out there too

144 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:54:12pm

re: #141 Cato the Elder

You call 'em crooks? I call 'em whores.

But I don't go out with crooks :)

145 yochanan  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:54:16pm

re: #137 Lincolntf

that should be BBW'S

146 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:54:30pm

re: #143 albusteve

yes, I'm sure they're are well over armed union people...they are out there too

Do they blow up federal buildings?

147 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:54:34pm

re: #135 Sharmuta

Why? It doesn't seem to be a problem.

Look at my nic.
:D
I was raised by a career Marine.

/which is not to claim that I always BEHAVE in a proper manner

148 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:54:56pm

re: #130 Sharmuta

upding! ..

149 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:55:03pm

re: #144 Walter L. Newton

But I don't go out with crooks :)

aren't you the Thief of Love?

150 yochanan  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:55:07pm

re: #143 albusteve

That would be the 'edu. comm'

151 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:55:30pm

re: #146 Sharmuta

Do they blow up federal buildings?

/Bill Ayers and his wife did

152 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:55:49pm

re: #151 Killian Bundy

/Bill Ayers and his wife did

And they were union thugs?

153 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:55:54pm

re: #31 wrenchwench

I think "Kemosabe" means the same thing.

Per a Gary Larsen cartoon, "Kemosabe" is Apache for "the back end of a horse".

154 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:56:08pm
155 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:56:13pm

re: #130 Sharmuta

Do union thugs typically have stockpiles of unregistered submachine guns, over 500 pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, an “adapter for a grenade launcher,” a riot smoke grenade, dynamite, detonation cord, gas masks, body armor, a machine gun, 550-yard range rockets, and how-to manuals for grenade launchers and propellants?

No? Okay then.

No, union thugs will just threaten to beat the crap out of you, and then do it, if you don't do what they want, which usually involves doing something that gives them just a little bit more power and influence. I consider that a much more pervasive threat than isolated groups of kooks stockpiling for 'the revolution.'

156 esch  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:56:18pm

re: #130 Sharmuta

Of course not. And the perpetrators were caught and convicted, as is proper.

But vastly more violence has happened in support of union goals over the past many decades than as the result of 'right wing wackos'. I see them as a far greater threat to our nation.

157 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:56:44pm

re: #146 Sharmuta

Do they blow up federal buildings?

don't know yet do we?

158 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:57:18pm

re: #150 yochanan

That would be the 'edu. comm'

heh...that should not be funny bro

159 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:57:47pm

The more I look into it, the more I'm coming to realize that the most egregious behavior (ie, carrying weapons and using Hitler imagery) at anti-Obama protests, is being carried out by followers of Lyndon LaRouche and Ron Paul supporters.

Conservatives would be wise to make it unquestionably clear that these kooks unwelcome as conservatives or as Republicans.

160 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:57:59pm

re: #152 Sharmuta

And they were union thugs?

/they're Obama's one time Friends, educating our children in cushy tenured jobs, no doubt NEA members

161 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:58:08pm
162 soxfan4life  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:58:24pm

re: #146 Sharmuta

Do they blow up federal buildings?

They do blow up budgets. Construction budgets always go way over once the unions get involved.

163 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:58:26pm

re: #128 Killgore Trout

Obama also makes these surprise runs out to get burgers or pizza. I really do worry about the guy sometimes.

That is with a Secret Service Escort. He ran out to Mannys in Chicago to get take out , when he was President Elect. Full escort & blocked traffic.
BTW Mannys is the best Kosher Deli, outside of New York, I think that I'll have lunch there this week.

164 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:59:30pm

re: #152 Sharmuta

And they were union thugs?

I did not describe "thugs"...just union members armed to the teeth with plenty of exotic stuff...there is little reason to think they don't exist especially given the violent history of unions in this country

165 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 4:59:59pm
166 yochanan  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:00:13pm

re: #163 opnion

That is with a Secret Service Escort. He ran out to Mannys in Chicago to get take out , when he was President Elect. Full escort & blocked traffic.
BTW Mannys is the best NONE- Kosher Deli, outside of New York, I think that I'll have lunch there this week.

FTFY

167 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:00:53pm

re: #159 Ringo the Gringo

The more I look into it, the more I'm coming to realize that the most egregious behavior (ie, carrying weapons and using Hitler imagery) at anti-Obama protests, is being carried out by followers of Lyndon LaRouche and Ron Paul supporters.

Conservatives would be wise to make it unquestionably clear that these kooks unwelcome as conservatives or as Republicans.

right...Steele is a fundraiser, remember?...other than that they presumably vote...go figure

168 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:01:27pm

re: #164 albusteve

I did not describe "thugs"...just union members armed to the teeth with plenty of exotic stuff...there is little reason to think they don't exist especially given the violent history of unions in this country

Sorry Steve, if you don't have proof of that, then we don't know for sure.

169 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:01:49pm

re: #165 buzzsawmonkey

Actually, Manny's is--sadly--not kosher, but only kosher style. It serves traditional cuisine, but it does not have kosher certification, mixes milk and meat, etc.

A shame, because their corned beef is superb.

I notice that was ryely put, and I certainly empathize.

170 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:01:57pm

re: #105 retief_99

Wow I must have made people mad, it's OK, I only worry about the opinions of my loved ones. I am pretty sure I know what I want to believe and what I want to think, so I don't lose much sleep over what other people say about me. When someone stoops to name calling during a discussion it usually means they can't think of anything intelligent to say or they realize they are losing.

My first comment to you, which Charles rightly deleted, was in reference to something I said on another thread that had nothing to do with this topic and wasn't at all funny in context. I apologize.

In all seriousness, though: If you start off by deciding what you want to believe and think, how can you ever get anywhere, either in belief or thought?

I still want to believe there's a Santa Claus, and to think that people are basically good. Doesn't work.

171 yochanan  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:02:06pm

Lyndon LaRouche FELLOWERS ARE BAT SHIT CRAZY

172 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:02:17pm

re: #56 Jim in Virginia

As Limbaugh said today, it was ironic that Fwank asked the woman at his town hall what planet she was from, as he spends most of his time hanging around Uranus.

Tacky.

173 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:02:26pm

re: #165 buzzsawmonkey

Why the heck would people mix milk and meat? I have heard of people soaking Liver in milk overnight then frying it up...
I'm glad you eat healthy Buzz

174 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:02:30pm

This is just stunning considering the history in this country of violent, extreme right-wing thugs that anyone would makes excuses for this. Tell the folks in Oklahoma City these people aren't a threat. Pathetic- everything else is a threat except people who actually stockpile weapons and explosives. No way would any of you say this wasn't threatening if it was islamists. I find many of you to be engaging in intellectual dishonesty- because for whatever reason, there's never anything wrong with the right. Ever.

175 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:02:32pm

re: #167 albusteve

right...Steele is a fundraiser, remember?...other than that they presumably vote...go figure

I'm unclear what your point is.

176 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:02:56pm

re: #165 buzzsawmonkey

Actually, Manny's is--sadly--not kosher, but only kosher style. It serves traditional cuisine, but it does not have kosher certification, mixes milk and meat, etc.

A shame, because their corned beef is superb.

Yeah great corned beef. One half of a sandwich is a meal.

177 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:03:17pm

re: #171 yochanan

Lyndon LaRouche FELLOWERS ARE BAT SHIT CRAZY

It really is a cult.

178 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:03:40pm

re: #166 yochanan

FTFY

That surprises me.

179 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:03:44pm

re: #165 buzzsawmonkey

Actually, Manny's is--sadly--not kosher, but only kosher style. It serves traditional cuisine, but it does not have kosher certification, mixes milk and meat, etc.

A shame, because their corned beef is superb.

Marky's, in Toronto, is a great kosher deli.

180 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:03:57pm

re: #168 Walter L. Newton

Sorry Steve, if you don't have proof of that, then we don't know for sure.

point taken but don't bet against it...jus sayin

181 Athos  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:04:01pm

re: #171 yochanan

Lyndon LaRouche FELLOWERS ARE BAT SHIT CRAZY

Ron Paul followers are bat shit crazy too...
as are Momma Moonbat, Code Pink, Bill Ayers, etc...

Unfortunately, there are far too many who are bat shit crazy. We need to keep shining a light on them and watch them scurry like the cockroaches they are.

182 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:04:26pm

Later gators.

183 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:04:55pm

re: #163 opnion

That is with a Secret Service Escort. He ran out to Mannys in Chicago to get take out , when he was President Elect. Full escort & blocked traffic.
BTW Mannys is the best Kosher Deli, outside of New York, I think that I'll have lunch there this week.

So hey, did that Great Kosher Pastrami Shortage ever get fixed?

184 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:04:57pm

re: #167 albusteve

right...Steele is a fundraiser, remember?...other than that they presumably vote...go figure

Steele is a fund raiser; he organizes fundraisers.

185 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:05:07pm
186 yochanan  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:05:56pm

re: #177 Ringo the Gringo

I remember when the Lyndon LaRoucheies split off the trots. went farther left for a couple of years and then took a far right turn, keeping the anti semitism they always had and adding some parts of other far right conspiracy theories to some of Lyndon's own.

187 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:06:14pm

re: #174 Sharmuta

Sharm, did you just equate the Oklahoma City bombing with bringing guns to a Presidential appearance?

188 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:06:14pm

re: #175 Ringo the Gringo

I'm unclear what your point is.

my point is the GOP does not seem to be hot on the tail of the kooks, refutiating their bullshit...they have value with their votes...everybody keeps saying the GOP needs to clean house but who has stepped up?...nobody that I know of...why is that?

189 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:06:24pm
190 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:06:51pm

re: #174 Sharmuta

This is just stunning considering the history in this country of violent, extreme right-wing thugs that anyone would makes excuses for this. Tell the folks in Oklahoma City these people aren't a threat. Pathetic- everything else is a threat except people who actually stockpile weapons and explosives. No way would any of you say this wasn't threatening if it was islamists. I find many of you to be engaging in intellectual dishonesty- because for whatever reason, there's never anything wrong with the right. Ever.

/tell it to the family of Sgt. Brian V. McDonnell

191 Erik The Red  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:07:14pm

re: #159 Ringo the Gringo

The more I look into it, the more I'm coming to realize that the most egregious behavior (ie, carrying weapons and using Hitler imagery) at anti-Obama protests, is being carried out by followers of Lyndon LaRouche and Ron Paul supporters.

Conservatives would be wise to make it unquestionably clear that these kooks unwelcome as conservatives or as Republicans.

The problem seems to be finding these conservatives. I have said it time and time again. I am having a huge problem find a conservative group to support.

192 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:07:22pm
193 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:07:48pm

re: #187 CyanSnowHawk

These kooks in the past had 500 pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, but you think these people aren't a threat.

194 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:08:23pm
195 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:08:23pm

re: #184 Cato the Elder

Steele is a fund raiser; he organizes fundraisers.

whatever you call them...spelling is for sissies

196 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:08:24pm

re: #177 Ringo the Gringo

It really is a cult.


Is LaRouche still alive? He must be close to 90.
Maybe Biden has a chance in 2016.

197 SurferDoc  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:08:27pm

re: #85 Alouette

Did the Lone Ranger's sidekick know this?

Yes. Kemosabe means shithead.

198 Bloodnok  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:08:29pm

re: #187 CyanSnowHawk

Sharm, did you just equate the Oklahoma City bombing with bringing guns to a Presidential appearance?

I think 500 seized pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer puts them in that ballpark.

199 Lincolntf  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:08:38pm

re: #192 taxfreekiller

I won?

200 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:08:55pm

re: #191 Erik The Red

The problem seems to be finding these conservatives. I have said it time and time again. I am having a huge problem find a conservative group to support.

That's because the rational people in the party have left.

201 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:09:03pm

Oklahoma City, Waco, Ruby Ridge . . . Although in the latter two cases, the feds besieged the nuts.

202 midwestgak  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:09:17pm

re: #173 HoosierHoops

Why the heck would people mix milk and meat?

Hey Hoosier. Purely kosher kitchens use pans and dishes for foods using milk as an ingredient. And another set of pans and dishes for foods using meat only. Meat is not to be cooked in a pan that has been used for foods with milk.

203 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:09:23pm

re: #183 itellu3times

So hey, did that Great Kosher Pastrami Shortage ever get fixed?

OK then if not Manny's, I'll repeat the question for anyone with real kosher pastrami connections!

(last year the feds raided the one and only plant in the US making kosher pastrami, corned beef, and who knows what else, is how I understand the situation, took away a bunch of illegal workers from a bunch of different countries ... and for at least months thereafter getting the kosher deli meats was a real battle)

204 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:09:24pm

re: #191 Erik The Red

The problem seems to be finding these conservatives. I have said it time and time again. I am having a huge problem find a conservative group to support.

I'm starting the SATTV4U2 Conservative Caucus. Please send donations to ,,,

(unmarked bills are best)

205 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:09:27pm

re: #193 Sharmuta

These kooks in the past had 500 pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, but you think these people aren't a threat.

But, Sharmuta, they were planning to start a geranium business.

206 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:09:54pm

re: #195 albusteve

whatever you call them...spelling is for sissies

Must be why I can no longer find work as an editor.

207 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:10:36pm

re: #188 albusteve

my point is the GOP does not seem to be hot on the tail of the kooks, refutiating their bullshit...they have value with their votes...everybody keeps saying the GOP needs to clean house but who has stepped up?...nobody that I know of...why is that?

Good question. Ron Paul certainly didn't help the Republican Party in the last election. It's not like the Party needs the Ron Paul vote when most of them probably voted for Bob Barr anyhow.

Ron Paul should be kicked out of the Republican Party, just like David Duke.

208 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:10:41pm
209 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:10:42pm

re: #205 Cato the Elder

But, Sharmuta, they were planning to start a geranium business.

Of course! Because they're right-wingers and that obviously makes them the equivalent of Mary Poppins.

210 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:10:54pm

re: #206 Cato the Elder

Must be why I can no longer find work as an editor.

I'll hire you personally if you agree to do my laundry as part of the deal...

211 Erik The Red  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:11:08pm

re: #173 HoosierHoops

Why the heck would people mix milk and meat? I have heard of people soaking Liver in milk overnight then frying it up...
I'm glad you eat healthy Buzz

We used to soak some types venison meat in evaporated milk for a few days before cooking. Took out the real "wild" taste out of the stronger tasting meats.

212 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:11:38pm

re: #192 taxfreekiller

What has Obama said you believe?

That he was born in Hawai'i.

;^)

213 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:11:40pm

re: #203 itellu3times

OK then if not Manny's, I'll repeat the question for anyone with real kosher pastrami connections!

(last year the feds raided the one and only plant in the US making kosher pastrami, corned beef, and who knows what else, is how I understand the situation, took away a bunch of illegal workers from a bunch of different countries ... and for at least months thereafter getting the kosher deli meats was a real battle)

The plant has reopened under new ownership and has resumed production, albeit on a limited basis.

We can buy Aaron's products in my area, whereabouts are you located?

214 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:12:00pm

re: #185 buzzsawmonkey

Well, there is this thing called beef stroganoff. Not to mention cheeseburgers, Philly cheese steaks, meat tacos w/sour cream or cheese, etc., etc.

Manny's--aside from having no hecksher--serves mac & cheese side by side with the corned beef and potroast, which means that it mixes its utensils. No kosher certification for Manny's.

I love food threads..And this isn't one BUT...I hate all that shit...That's just me..I hate 90% of all food...I should be a Jew...If it ain't fruit, Veggies or really lean meat, Fish, Chicken, fresh 7 grain bread with really warm butter, Eggs, cheese or yogurt...I ain't eating it! LOL
Hope you are well my friend

215 yochanan  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:12:01pm

re: #203 itellu3times

it isn't the only place that made kosher pastrmi. i worked in a place in chicago that made it and still does.

216 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:12:37pm

re: #206 Cato the Elder

Must be why I can no longer find work as an editor.

I find that hard to beleive, what with your winning personality and Masters Degree from the Dale Carnegie School of How To Win Freinds and Influence People

217 Racer X  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:12:38pm

re: #174 Sharmuta

This is just stunning considering the history in this country of violent, extreme right-wing thugs that anyone would makes excuses for this. Tell the folks in Oklahoma City these people aren't a threat. Pathetic- everything else is a threat except people who actually stockpile weapons and explosives. No way would any of you say this wasn't threatening if it was islamists. I find many of you to be engaging in intellectual dishonesty- because for whatever reason, there's never anything wrong with the right. Ever.

Lighten up Francis. Lizards have a history of criticizing whomever whenever it is appropriate. I can clearly remember Bush getting bashed regularly over the years.

These right-wing gun-toting idiots are wrong, and they are playing right into the left's hands. Many lizards have expressed this sentiment; very few actually come out in support of the Teabag Cowboys.

218 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:13:04pm

Violent crazy works both ways.

/at last year's RNC convention it wasn't a protest, it was a week of continuous urban combat

219 jaunte  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:13:57pm

Uh oh. We have competition.
Evolving Robots Learn To Lie To Each Other

220 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:13:59pm

Now this is officially a Food Thread.

I made the most amazing pizza for supper. Instead of tomato sauce, I used fresh-picked sliced tomatoes, sprinkled with oregano & basil, drizzled with olive oil, and topped with mozzarella.

All on fresh flaxseed and bulghur dough.

221 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:14:22pm
They were initially charged with plotting to blow up government buildings around Phoenix. But the charges were reduced to various firearms and explosive charges. At the same time the charges were reduced, the AP noted in October 1996, "A videotape showing militia members touring federal buildings in Phoenix and allegedly explaining how to destroy them already has been withdrawn by prosecutors after defense lawyers noted that it was made in 1994, before most of the Vipers even knew one another."

But you worry about them union thugs!

222 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:14:49pm

re: #219 jaunte

Uh oh. We have competition.
Evolving Robots Learn To Lie To Each Other

Robot & Cyborg 2012!

223 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:14:53pm

re: #217 Racer X

Lighten up Francis. Lizards have a history of criticizing whomever whenever it is appropriate. I can clearly remember Bush getting bashed regularly over the years.

These right-wing gun-toting idiots are wrong, and they are playing right into the left's hands. Many lizards have expressed this sentiment; very few actually come out in support of the Teabag Cowboys.

upding for the Stripes reference

224 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:15:15pm

re: #217 Racer X

You missed the memo. Only the left is violent and union thugs are a greater threat.

225 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:15:28pm

re: #207 Ringo the Gringo

I really wish the Republican candidates had refused to appear with him on stage at the debates. I also wish the conservative base wasn't attending Paulian organized Tea Parties or defending violent anti-government militias.
Oh well.

226 Erik The Red  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:15:36pm

re: #200 Sharmuta

That's because the rational people in the party have left.

Where have all the good people gone?
Jack Johnson - Good People

227 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:15:56pm
228 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:16:12pm

re: #221 Sharmuta

But you worry about them union thugs!

/yeah, so far they're the only ones that have sent someone to the hospital at a town hall protest

229 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:16:39pm

re: #224 Sharmuta

You missed the memo. Only the left is violent and union thugs are a greater threat.

Was that on the other side of the memo that we can only critisize our "own"?

230 HelloDare  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:16:52pm

Unreal: MSNBC edits clip of man with gun at Obama rally to support racism narrative

Never will you see a starker example of MSNBC getting away with the sort of deception for which Fox News would be pilloried, especially in the context of race. If you missed Monday’s post about this, go watch the footage (or look at this photo) and see if you can deduce why they wouldn’t want to show the guy with the rifle from the neck up during this particular segment. For all the well-deserved heat that MSNBC’s primetime line-up has taken for its demagoguery — Maddow has been notably egregious during the health-care blowup — this proves that they’re not above pulling this crap during their daytime “hard news” segments either.

Can't post the link to the video in the Hot Air story above, but here's is a still of the guy.

[Link: www.azcentral.com...]

231 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:17:14pm

re: #220 Alouette

Aside from the dough that's a very Italian way to make pizza. A lot of Americans are surprised to eat real Italian pizza.

232 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:17:21pm

re: #160 Killian Bundy

/they're Obama's one time Friends, educating our children in cushy tenured jobs, no doubt NEA members

Yes, we get it. They're assholes. But that does not mean that these other crazy people are safe to have around. 168 people died in Oklahoma city. What's the Ayers' actual death toll? What is for the past fifteen years?

This isn't about who gets to be wronger, this is about not having something horrible happen.

233 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:17:30pm

re: #197 SurferDoc

Yes. Kemosabe means shithead.

Actually that's really funny. I once heard a whole radio show about the meaning of Kemosabe. No one could put up a solid argument for any single derivation, but the very best conjecture was that "Tonto" (= Sp. stupid) was really speaking Spanish too: "qui no sabe" = he who knows not.

Which one was the more polite?

234 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:17:54pm
235 Racer X  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:17:56pm

re: #224 Sharmuta

You missed the memo. Only the left is violent and union thugs are a greater threat.

You may be overreacting just a touch, although I have not read through the entire thread.

236 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:18:13pm

re: #235 Racer X

You might want to do that.

237 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:18:53pm

re: #216 sattv4u2

I find that hard to beleive, what with your winning personality and Masters Degree from the Dale Carnegie School of How To Win Freinds and Influence People

That would be "master's degree", jerkweed.

238 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:19:13pm

re: #234 taxfreekiller

I wish the Democrats Americans would do something about the 40 year liar, fraud,
traitor, fake awards in a combat zone, attendee at meetings that vote to kill U.S. Senators and Congressmen, John F. Kerry.


Sorry TFK

239 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:19:19pm

re: #225 Killgore Trout

I really wish the Republican candidates had refused to appear with him on stage at the debates. I also wish the conservative base wasn't attending Paulian organized Tea Parties or defending violent anti-government militias.
Oh well.

that would be a hell of a start...

240 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:19:24pm

re: #164 albusteve

I did not describe "thugs"...just union members armed to the teeth with plenty of exotic stuff...there is little reason to think they don't exist especially given the violent history of unions in this country

The other side was often heavily armed as well, and not shy about joining the fight. Just mentioning, before we get rolling on bashing the whole history of American unions.

241 retief_99  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:19:49pm

re: #170 Cato the Elder

I am always open to new ideas and concepts. I have continuously educated my self for all my adult life. Over time, I have formed certain beliefs and concepts that suit my character and political and moral philosophy. I believe that a person must adopt rules by which you live. I need to look in the mirror and like who I see looking back. I have set parameters of what I will accept as right and wrong, I defend these restrictions with vigor. I HAVE been accused of seeing things only in black or white. I am also VERY thick skinned.

242 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:20:02pm

re: #237 Cato the Elder

That would be "master's degree", jerkweed.

Okay ,,, Cato The Elder, Master's Degree in Jerkweed

:)

243 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:20:15pm

re: #193 Sharmuta

These kooks in the past had 500 pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, but you think these people aren't a threat.

I'm somewhere between the extremes of ignoring them and treating them like they think the Federal Government has been treating them. Somewhere around keeping a close eye on them so they can be stopped before they do something. #130 seemed an awful lot like an equality between the action of these guys and the Oklahoma City bombers, while at the same time suggesting that the union thugs could be safely ignored.

244 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:21:01pm

I like the line "resisting the New World Order". You mean resisting reality.

One cannot help think of this line:

Call me Loretta

245 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:21:10pm

re: #224 Sharmuta

You missed the memo. Only the left is violent and union thugs are a greater threat.

there is no 'greater threat' imo...it's all bad

246 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:21:41pm

re: #225 Killgore Trout

I really wish the Republican candidates had refused to appear with him on stage at the debates. I also wish the conservative base wasn't attending Paulian organized Tea Parties or defending violent anti-government militias.
Oh well.

Me too, although, when it comes to the tea parties, I think that many normal conservatives have been totally unprepared for the weird world of street politics.

Radical behavior is by definition, not conservative.

247 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:21:44pm
248 Racer X  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:22:06pm

re: #236 Sharmuta

You might want to do that.

Good point.

So far I'm seeing a lot of 'moral equivalency' from both sides. Stupid is stupid - no matter which side is displaying it.

249 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:22:10pm

re: #198 Bloodnok

I think 500 seized pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer puts them in that ballpark.

And how many of them went to jail for that? Were the ones that went to jail for that the same ones that make up the group now? If so, what the fuck are felons doing carrying weapons at all?

250 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:22:19pm

re: #194 buzzsawmonkey

I'm sure it was just for their indoor pot farm.

Tht doesn't make me feel all that safe. People with pot farms tend to be a little twitchy on the trigger.

251 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:22:41pm

re: #237 Cato the Elder

That would be "master's degree", jerkweed.

"You know, if you shoot me, you'll have to give back all those humanitarian awards." -Fletch

252 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:22:54pm

re: #247 taxfreekiller

He's an elected official. It's up to his constituents. Same way all the other "40 year liars" get in and stay in.

253 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:23:07pm

Personally, I always thought a New World Order sounded like a really good idea.

The problem is, we humans never even established an old one.

254 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:23:19pm
255 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:23:27pm

re: #207 Ringo the Gringo

Remember the GOP bumper sticker after Duke won the GOP primary, and ran in the general against Edwards? "Vote for the Crook".

256 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:23:52pm

re: #253 Cato the Elder

What? World or Order?

257 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:23:55pm

re: #245 albusteve

there is no 'greater threat' imo...it's all bad

But that's no fun, Steve. Then we have to look critically at fellow travelers, and many just don't want to do that.

258 Racer X  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:23:58pm

re: #230 HelloDare

"Race Card Fail"

259 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:24:15pm

re: #255 quickjustice

Very well-- Vote for the Crook--it's important.

260 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:24:22pm

re: #240 SanFranciscoZionist

The other side was often heavily armed as well, and not shy about joining the fight. Just mentioning, before we get rolling on bashing the whole history of American unions.

good point...I despise them all equally...guns are for home D or concealed for the same purpose...posturing and threatening in public with guns is unacceptable

261 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:24:33pm

re: #250 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know about California, but when I lived in Miami, the marijuana smugglers were the most violent and dangerous of them all.

262 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:24:38pm
263 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:24:48pm

re: #256 calcajun

What? World or Order?

Order.

Odor is about as close as we ever got.

264 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:24:58pm
265 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:25:09pm

re: #247 taxfreekiller

Ya, but the Donks won, its up to them they are the leaders.

Or not?

I think a man that serves his country does it with Honor..Or he brings shame upon his head and His Country...
Kerry has been Weighted measured and found wanting...

266 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:25:33pm
267 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:25:50pm

re: #232 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, we get it. They're assholes. But that does not mean that these other crazy people are safe to have around. 168 people died in Oklahoma city. What's the Ayers' actual death toll? What is for the past fifteen years?

This isn't about who gets to be wronger, this is about not having something horrible happen.

Oklahoma City was 14 years ago, so I'm not sure why it's relevant as to what's happening today.

/violent crazy on both ends of the spectrum is a threat, it's not solely a "right wing" phenomenon or a death toll contest

268 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:25:54pm

re: #233 Cato the Elder

Actually that's really funny. I once heard a whole radio show about the meaning of Kemosabe. No one could put up a solid argument for any single derivation, but the very best conjecture was that "Tonto" (= Sp. stupid) was really speaking Spanish too: "qui no sabe" = he who knows not.

Which one was the more polite?

Hard to tell. "Tonto" is not deeply hostile. "Estupido" is fighting words among my kids, but "tonto" can be used lightly when your study partner forgets something.

269 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:25:57pm

re: #224 Sharmuta

You missed the memo. Only the left is violent and union thugs are a greater threat.

That's right, because only one threat at a time can be focused on, and any word, even whispered, that is short of complete condemnation is a full-throated roar of support.
///

270 Bloodnok  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:26:09pm

re: #243 CyanSnowHawk

I'm somewhere between the extremes of ignoring them and treating them like they think the Federal Government has been treating them. Somewhere around keeping a close eye on them so they can be stopped before they do something. #130 seemed an awful lot like an equality between the action of these guys and the Oklahoma City bombers, while at the same time suggesting that the union thugs could be safely ignored.

Unreal. The people who have the arsenal to take out dozens or hundreds of people, have stated the will to take out the federal government, and have been charged with plotting to blow up federal buildings are the ones it is safer to ignore.

Unbelievable.

And for the record there was neither a defense of a union member attack on anyone nor a claim that they could be "safely ignored" in Sharmuta's comment.

271 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:26:51pm

re: #266 taxfreekiller

Not what I was replying to. Make your case to his constituents.

272 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:27:49pm

re: #269 CyanSnowHawk

That's right, because only one threat at a time can be focused on, and any word, even whispered, that is short of complete condemnation is a full-throated roar of support.
///

Excuse me- you were the one assigning statuses to various threats, willing to overlook one in favor of another because of political affiliations, not me.

273 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:28:00pm
274 Lee Coller  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:28:10pm

re: #255 quickjustice

Remember the GOP bumper sticker after Duke won the GOP primary, and ran in the general against Edwards? "Vote for the Crook".

Minor correction, Duke didn't win the GOP primary, Louisiana doesn't have primaries. In Louisiana if no one gets 50% the two top vote getters run in a runoff election.

His party identification was self-identified, and the GOP disowned him.

275 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:28:21pm

I love it when you get a world fresh from the dealer, and it still has that New World Odor.

276 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:28:35pm

re: #270 Bloodnok

Unreal. The people who have the arsenal to take out dozens or hundreds of people, have stated the will to take out the federal government, and have been charged with plotting to blow up federal buildings are the ones it is safer to ignore.

Unbelievable.

And for the record there was neither a defense of a union member attack on anyone nor a claim that they could be "safely ignored" in Sharmuta's comment.

I haven't suggested we ignore any threats.

277 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:28:40pm
278 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:28:44pm
279 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:28:49pm

re: #264 buzzsawmonkey

Farmers always vote for the flail.

It thought it was masochists, flagellants and members of the Auto de fe?

280 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:29:06pm

re: #267 Killian Bundy

Oklahoma City was 14 years ago, so I'm not sure why it's relevant as to what's happening today.

/violent crazy on both ends of the spectrum is a threat, it's not solely a "right wing" phenomenon or a death toll contest

First, I agree with your closing statement.

Second, Oklahoma City is not that relevent, except that it does establish a history of extreme violence for a certain type of heavily armed paranoid person with political leanings. However, since the Ayerses are apparently still relevent (deduced from comments above in response to Sharmuta's posts), I thought it reasonable to point out that their federal building bombing had been much less 'successful', and was a much longer time ago.

281 Erik The Red  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:29:23pm

The bad guys have captured the Lone Ranger, have him naked on the ground, and are about to shoot him. "Do you have any last wishes??", one of them asks.

"Bring my horse, Silver, over here.", the Long Ranger replies.

They grant his wish and over comes Silver. The Lone Ranger whispers for a moment into Silver's ear. Then Silver disappears over the horizon like lightning. He returns in just a few seconds with a big, beautiful woman in the saddle. She hops off Silver, strips naked and in short order she and the Long Ranger enjoy themselves to the utmost, much to the delight of the bad guys.

When they've finished, another bad guy says, "That looked like good fun. Do you have any other last wishes??"

"Yes ..bring my horse, Silver, over here one more time.", the Long Ranger replies.

Silver approaches, and the Long Ranger whispers into his ear, "You idiot! I said bring POSSE!"

282 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:29:26pm

re: #275 Charles

I love it when you get a world fresh from the dealer, and it still has that New World Odor.

With real pine trees hanging from the rear view mirror?

283 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:29:30pm

re: #275 Charles

I love it when you get a world fresh from the dealer, and it still has that New World Odor.

I traded my old one in under the Cash For Planet program!

284 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:29:54pm

re: #276 Sharmuta

I haven't suggested we ignore any threats.

Just point and laugh?//

285 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:30:02pm

re: #277 taxfreekiller

they are just like you,,,right

You know nothing of what I am like.

286 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:30:02pm

re: #280 SanFranciscoZionist

First, I agree with your closing statement.

Second, Oklahoma City is not that relevent, except that it does establish a history of extreme violence for a certain type of heavily armed paranoid person with political leanings. However, since the Ayerses are apparently still relevent (deduced from comments above in response to Sharmuta's posts), I thought it reasonable to point out that their federal building bombing had been much less 'successful', and was a much longer time ago.

It should also be pointed out they were not union members at the time.

287 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:30:04pm

re: #267 Killian Bundy

Ayers tended to mastermind the Weathermen murders, rather than carry them out himself. His future wife planted the bomb that killed the San Francisco cop; Ayers masterminded that one.

288 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:30:07pm
289 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:30:44pm

re: #257 Sharmuta

But that's no fun, Steve. Then we have to look critically at fellow travelers, and many just don't want to do that.

I have few fellow travelers...some posters here, otherwise I follow my own heart and republicans or the GOP are just more wackos I try to come to terms with...I'm not for sale...I try to keep my head down and my mouth shut but this rising right wing lunacy deserves my scorn on principle

290 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:31:07pm

re: #275 Charles

Groan. Reluctant upding, Charles!

291 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:31:24pm
292 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:31:32pm
293 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:31:41pm

re: #286 Sharmuta

It should also be pointed out they were not union members at the time.

Lets see

So AFTER they plotted and bombed and killed ,, THEN they were allowed into the "union"

Wow ,,, guess ya gotta "make your bones" to join!

294 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:32:24pm

re: #280 SanFranciscoZionist

However, since the Ayerses are apparently still relevent (deduced from comments above in response to Sharmuta's posts), I thought it reasonable to point out that their federal building bombing had been much less 'successful', and was a much longer time ago.

/they killed a cop pretty successfully and now tour the country giving speeches

295 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:32:51pm

re: #281 Erik The Red

I...am aghast.

I like George Carlin's line about replacing the word "kill" with the word "f**k".

"All right, sheriff, we're gonna f**k ya now-- but we're gonna f**k you slow."

296 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:33:00pm

re: #274 Lee Coller

Thanks for the correction. Louisiana politics never was my strong suit. I was right about Edwards?

297 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:33:10pm
298 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:33:39pm
299 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:33:44pm

re: #292 taxfreekiller

Likewise.

300 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:34:37pm

re: #275 Charles

A pun from Charles should be massively updinged, as should a Monty Python reference.

301 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:34:42pm

re: #267 Killian Bundy

Oklahoma City was 14 years ago, so I'm not sure why it's relevant as to what's happening today.

Similar things have been said about 9/11.

302 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:35:01pm

re: #289 albusteve

I have few fellow travelers...

That sucks. You never get to use the HOV lanes during rush hour!

303 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:35:04pm

re: #296 quickjustice

Yes. Yes you were.

304 Lee Coller  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:35:25pm

re: #296 quickjustice

Thanks for the correction. Louisiana politics never was my strong suit. I was right about Edwards?

You mean that it was a GOP bumper sticker? I'm not sure, if that was the case, I do recall hearing about that sticker though.

It would certainly make sense. Especially considering Edwards was impeached after he was elected.

305 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:35:42pm

re: #300 BatGuano

A pun from Charles should be massively updinged, as should a Monty Python reference.

twas a good one...I'm happy he can afford a New World

306 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:35:58pm

re: #300 BatGuano

Then see mine at 244, then.

307 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:36:13pm
308 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:36:14pm

re: #301 Cato the Elder

Similar things have been said about 9/11.

/well, that has nothing to do with the "town halls" either

309 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:36:24pm
310 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:36:31pm

re: #301 Cato the Elder

Timothy Mcveigh is dead. The perpetrators and planners of 911 are still at large.

311 JHW  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:36:38pm

It's kind of amazing to me how long purchase of explosives was fairly easy and unregulated. I've bought tons of ANFO in the 60s and 70s ($4 for a 50 lb. sack),along with dynamite and det cord, loggers used them in the woods for stump blasting.Farmers could get it just as easily, or even anyone right off the street. ID wasn't even required. It's a miracle there weren't some very nasty incidents, worse than there were, in those decades, they were hardly politically calm.

312 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:37:09pm

re: #282 calcajun

With real pine trees hanging from the rear view mirror?

Nah, silly. You only need those when the New World Odor is gone and the planet starts to smell all funky.

313 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:37:12pm

re: #289 albusteve

I have few fellow travelers...

Yeah-- my kid had lice, too.///

314 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:38:56pm

re: #306 calcajun

Ok. You got'em both! :)

315 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:39:14pm
316 Lee Coller  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:39:26pm

re: #304 Lee Coller

You mean that it was a GOP bumper sticker? I'm not sure, if that was the case, I do recall hearing about that sticker though.

It would certainly make sense. Especially considering Edwards was impeached after he was elected.

Actually according to wikipedia, there were two bumper stickers (it didn't say who put them out):

"Vote for the Crook. It's Important,"

and

"Vote for the Lizard, not the Wizard."

I'm offended by that second one :-)

317 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:39:42pm

re: #309 buzzsawmonkey

Last I checked, we live in the New World. You know, Columbus and all that.

it's all Columbus' fault...no more parades for him

318 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:39:44pm

re: #308 Killian Bundy

9/11 was almost eight years ago, and I still get sick to my stomach when I look at the vacant lot formerly known as Ground Zero.

319 Erik The Red  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:39:49pm

re: #311 JHW

It's kind of amazing to me how long purchase of explosives was fairly easy and unregulated. I've bought tons of ANFO in the 60s and 70s ($4 for a 50 lb. sack),along with dynamite and det cord, loggers used them in the woods for stump blasting.Farmers could get it just as easily, or even anyone right off the street. ID wasn't even required. It's a miracle there weren't some very nasty incidents, worse than there were, in those decades, they were hardly politically calm.

The baddies were the Russians. Now we are fighting with in. If you ask me it would be better directed at the fanatic Islamists.

320 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:39:53pm

re: #294 Killian Bundy

/they killed a cop pretty successfully and now tour the country giving speeches

You may have noted my use of the word 'assholes' above. If I've ever defended that pair, it must have been in my sleep.

321 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:40:14pm
322 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:40:14pm

re: #315 buzzsawmonkey

A close-nit family?

Yes, until some of them flea!

323 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:40:17pm

re: #310 BatGuano

The perpetrators and planners of 911 are still at large.

/actually, almost all of them are either dead or in Guantanamo

324 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:40:39pm

re: #319 Erik The Red

The baddies were the Russians. Now we are fighting with in. If you ask me it would be better directed at the fanatic Islamists.

How about fanatics period?

325 Racer X  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:41:03pm

re: #307 taxfreekiller

East Coast of the U.S. saved from hurricane Bill by an early season cold front.

Saved by global climate change?

[Link: www.nws.noaa.gov...]

*heads explode*

326 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:41:17pm

re: #281 Erik The Red

DING!

327 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:41:44pm

re: #310 BatGuano

Timothy Mcveigh is dead. The perpetrators and planners of 911 are still at large.

Tim is dead, his fellow travelers aren't. We have to keep fighting his would-be imitators.

All nineteen of the hijackers are dead, bin Laden is probably dead, al Qaeda is scattered and losing, Saddam, who had nothing to do with any of it, is dead, the Taliban are like weeds, and yes, we have to keep fighting them and their friends and would-be imitators.

So where's the difference?

328 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:41:45pm

re: #315 buzzsawmonkey

I wanted them to fill their heads with the right materials.

329 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:42:02pm

re: #323 Killian Bundy

What Bat meant was "The perpetrators of 9/11 are soon to be at large."

330 retief_99  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:42:11pm

re: #311 JHW

I believe that we see here what happens when a things is used for a purpose it wasn't designed to be used for. This is fertilizer, plan and simple, it was used to make golf courses green. It will not usually represent any danger unless it is specially prepared for use as an explosive. Millions of tons were sold freely in this country before the Tim Mcveigh abomination. Now we must watch fertilizer like it is C-4. The fertilizer did nothing wrong, it is people who commit the atrocities, not things.

331 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:42:11pm

re: #310 BatGuano

Timothy Mcveigh is dead. The perpetrators and planners of 911 are still at large.

The perpetrators of 9/11 are dead.

332 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:42:27pm

re: #324 Sharmuta

How about fanatics period?

it's human nature to pick a side, and when your side is wrong the instinct is to defend them anyway

333 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:43:04pm

re: #331 Alouette

The 19 are dead: True.

334 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:43:12pm

re: #332 albusteve

OK- but I'm not on the side of the fanatics.

335 Hawaii69  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:43:29pm

It's usually the uneducated, ignorant losers who find a way to blame their problems, or the worlds problems, on some dark (or dark skinned) outside forces.

Though, often at the top of larger organizations, you've got very smart people who know how to manuipulate the unfocused anger of these clowns.

Newsflash: The New World Order isn't keeping you from holding down menial jobs.

336 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:43:35pm

re: #307 taxfreekiller

East Coast of the U.S. saved from hurricane Bill by an early season cold front.

Saved by global climate change?

[Link: www.nws.noaa.gov...]

If there ever was a meteorological metaphor for the Clintons-- Bill gets worked up and blustery, only to collapse when it runs into something frigid.

337 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:43:44pm

re: #272 Sharmuta

Excuse me- you were the one assigning statuses to various threats, willing to overlook one in favor of another because of political affiliations, not me.

Bullshit. I said, re: #155 CyanSnowHawk

No, union thugs will just threaten to beat the crap out of you, and then do it, if you don't do what they want, which usually involves doing something that gives them just a little bit more power and influence. I consider that a much more pervasive threat than isolated groups of kooks stockpiling for 'the revolution.'

Which says nothing about ignoring them. It puts into perspective the political influence of the two groups. A bunch of small incidents that adds political influence and power to a mainstream political party v. the occasional big terrorist strike, or threat of one, that outrages everyone and forces such groups further into the fringe. Which do you consider a bigger threat? The one that can get things done or the one that makes a big noise and pisses everyone else off? And where does it say that one gets ignored while we focus on the other?

338 Egregious Philbin  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:44:09pm

I've met Ernie a few times when I toyed around with joining the LP here in AZ. The man is unstable, and so full of himself, its sickening. He had a radio show here on a brokered station (that means he had to pay to put the show on the air) and it was the repository of every freak libertarian, tax protester, NWO Black Helicopter believing, nutcase in the USA.

Guys like Ernie have ruined any chance the LP has of ever getting above 1% in a national poll. His goons plastered the Phoenix metro area with dozens of Ron Paul signs all over the place. And, worse, when Dr. Paul got his ass handed to him in the primary, they didn't even have the decency to clean up and take down their propaganda.

Buncha wannabe dorks, spazzes and nerds, but with assault rifles..oh joy.

I hope more people find out about this asswipe.

339 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:44:51pm

re: #331 Alouette

But isn't Sheik Mohammed (the alleged mastermind of 9/11) in GITMO, and isn't he scheduled to be relocated to a vacation resort destination near you in the near future?/

340 jaunte  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:44:57pm

re: #335 Hawaii69

Newsflash: The New World Order isn't keeping you from holding down menial jobs.

"The Bilderbergers got me fired from Kathy’s Donut Farm."

341 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:45:07pm

re: #338 Egregious Philbin

I've met Ernie a few times when I toyed around with joining the LP here in AZ. The man is unstable, and so full of himself, its sickening. He had a radio show here on a brokered station (that means he had to pay to put the show on the air) and it was the repository of every freak libertarian, tax protester, NWO Black Helicopter believing, nutcase in the USA.

Guys like Ernie have ruined any chance the LP has of ever getting above 1% in a national poll. His goons plastered the Phoenix metro area with dozens of Ron Paul signs all over the place. And, worse, when Dr. Paul got his ass handed to him in the primary, they didn't even have the decency to clean up and take down their propaganda.

Buncha wannabe dorks, spazzes and nerds, but with assault rifles..oh joy.

I hope more people find out about this asswipe.

Thank you.

342 Hawaii69  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:45:15pm

re: #3 Pianobuff

Hey, when you're making minumum wage at a donut shop, that Glock represents quite an investment. Gotta make the most of it.

343 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:45:22pm

re: #334 Sharmuta

OK- but I'm not on the side of the fanatics.

they are everywhere...this, for example, will be the demise of the GOP...unless cooler heads prevail...we are slowly sinking into a Euro paradigm

344 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:45:46pm

re: #338 Egregious Philbin

Buncha wannabe dorks, spazzes and nerds, but with assault rifles..oh joy.

Yep, and the Nazis were a bunch of thugs in comic opera uniforms until...

345 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:45:58pm
346 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:46:05pm

re: #327 Cato the Elder

Tim is dead, his fellow travelers aren't. We have to keep fighting his would-be imitators.

All nineteen of the hijackers are dead, bin Laden is probably dead, al Qaeda is scattered and losing, Saddam, who had nothing to do with any of it, is dead, the Taliban are like weeds, and yes, we have to keep fighting them and their friends and would-be imitators.

So where's the difference?

Who are McVeigh's fellow travelers and what have they done?

347 HelloDare  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:46:16pm
348 Taqyia2Me  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:46:17pm

re: #174 Sharmuta

This is just stunning considering the history in this country of violent, extreme right-wing thugs that anyone would makes excuses for this. Tell the folks in Oklahoma City these people aren't a threat. Pathetic- everything else is a threat except people who actually stockpile weapons and explosives. No way would any of you say this wasn't threatening if it was islamists. I find many of you to be engaging in intellectual dishonesty- because for whatever reason, there's never anything wrong with the right. Ever.

"Mother Jones" clear and relevant history...been to the monument here in Illinois, coal country.

349 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:46:39pm

re: #346 BatGuano

Who are McVeigh's fellow travelers and what have they done?

inspired others?

350 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:47:17pm
351 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:48:00pm

re: #346 BatGuano

Who are McVeigh's fellow travelers and what have they done?

Basic reading.

352 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:48:02pm

What's that you say? There's a Nude World Order? I better get in shape, first.

353 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:48:15pm

re: #340 jaunte

"The Bilderbergers got me fired from Kathy’s Donut Farm."

For the low, low price of 100,000 ameros, in cash, delivered to Kathy's PO box in town...

/

354 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:48:25pm

re: #350 taxfreekiller

TY.

355 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:48:36pm

re: #349 albusteve

inspired others?

I don't know.

356 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:48:44pm

Ah well. Think I'll go do something productive

I have just about enough belly button lint to knit a sweater for the winter. Think I'll go seperate the colors!

357 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:49:10pm

re: #344 calcajun

Yep, and the Nazis were a bunch of thugs in comic opera uniforms until...

I really don't think that's what EP was saying.

358 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:49:11pm

re: #351 Cato the Elder

Basic reading.

good link...thanks for that

359 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:49:31pm

re: #355 BatGuano

I don't know.

You will once you read my link.

360 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:49:39pm
361 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:49:44pm

re: #347 HelloDare

New World Otter.

Oooohhh...

It has such a sweet maternal (or paternal, do I know from otters?) expression.

362 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:49:46pm

re: #339 quickjustice

But isn't Sheik Mohammed (the alleged mastermind of 9/11) in GITMO, and isn't he scheduled to be relocated to a vacation resort destination near you in the near future?/

Khalid Mohammed was one of the planners of 9/11 but he wasn't one of the 19 perps (who actually carried out the deed).

363 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:49:52pm

re: #337 CyanSnowHawk

An American political party gaining influence doesn't kill people, but you go ahead and find it a bigger threat than these violent kooks.

364 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:50:00pm

re: #357 Cato the Elder

I know-- but those are groups that should not be dismissed by anyone.

365 Racer X  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:50:22pm

re: #345 taxfreekiller

National Association of Car Dealers.

"Stop the Kash for Klunker Kar deal"

No money, no cars for you Obama.

You owe us 3 Billion, pay up .

and these liberals herein upon us now with all these Obama and the Donks are the winners,,, and they want these fools to take over health care

plum ass crazy is what

Didn't the dealers in New York recently say "screw this. If you're not going to reimburse us, we're not going to participate." ?

366 doubter4444  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:50:36pm

re: #63 Lance o Lot

I don't know... I'm still having trouble getting worked up over those guys. Sure it was a publicity stunt, but they just stood around being obnoxious. None of them screamed at little old ladies, beat up disabled men passing out flags, grabbed other peoples' signs or tried to drown them out with bullhorns.

The tactics of the leftist aren't just intimidating, they are often confrontational and violent. And the police unions often look the other way. I haven't heard about any of these gun nuts running riot, so at least they are being civil. I would be intersted to know if any of the Looney Leftists have gone on any of their anger binges whenever any of the gun totters are around.

Nothing calms bullies like the sight of potential victims displaying arms. I don't have ATD alarm company signs in my yard; I have NRA stickers on my windows. Maybe, just maybe, despite their odious past, these guys provide passive protection to little old ladies in sneakers holding homemade signs that want their tiny voices to be heard.

I'm just sayin'...


Delusional rationalization right here.
You really think the POLICE UNIONS look the other way and are in the pocket of the dreaded leftists?
For god's sake, that's pathetic.

367 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:50:46pm

re: #361 SanFranciscoZionist

Otters do eat their young, you know. Could have been "yum!"///

368 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:52:46pm

re: #365 Racer X

Didn't the dealers in New York recently say "screw this. If you're not going to reimburse us, we're not going to participate." ?

3 dealers in Atlanta did that 2 weeks ago. One owner who has 5 different dealerships around town (different brands) says the gov't owes him close to $800,000. Every time he calls to ask about it he's told "your forms are being reviewed"

369 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:53:32pm

re: #261 quickjustice

I don't know about California, but when I lived in Miami, the marijuana smugglers were the most violent and dangerous of them all.

Your comment brought back a memory. A bale of marijuana washed up on shore in Ft Lauderdale. NOTHING, not even a decaying, dessicated, dead horse, could ever smell as bad as that salt watered infested marijuana bale as it was drying out.

370 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:53:45pm

re: #367 calcajun

Otters do eat their young, you know. Could have been "yum!"///

I hate you.

//

371 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:54:45pm

re: #369 Crimsonfisted

Your comment brought back a memory. A bale of marijuana washed up on shore in Ft Lauderdale. NOTHING, not even a decaying, dessicated, dead horse, could ever smell as bad as that salt watered infested marijuana bale as it was drying out.

You in the habit of sniffing a decaying, dessicated, dead horse,, are ya??

//

372 Racer X  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:54:58pm

re: #368 sattv4u2

3 dealers in Atlanta did that 2 weeks ago. One owner who has 5 different dealerships around town (different brands) says the gov't owes him close to $800,000. Every time he calls to ask about it he's told "your forms are being reviewed"

... and these are the idiots who want to run health care.

373 retief_99  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:55:13pm

re: #368 sattv4u2

I wonder if we will get the same answer when a 65 year old asks the goverment, "has my heart bypass surgery been approved yet"?

374 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:55:28pm

re: #369 Crimsonfisted

Your comment brought back a memory. A bale of marijuana washed up on shore in Ft Lauderdale. NOTHING, not even a decaying, dessicated, dead horse, could ever smell as bad as that salt watered infested marijuana bale as it was drying out.

I hate the smell of pot.

I'm a perfume hobbyist, and some scents have come out that use a cannabis note. It's absolutely hideous.

Ick. Sweet, and sickly, and...ech.

375 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:55:36pm

re: #363 Sharmuta

An American political party gaining influence doesn't kill people, but you go ahead and find it a bigger threat than these violent kooks.

Tell me that again when the Democrats take a soft stance on Iranian nukes, and Tel Aviv is under a mushroom cloud.

376 Racer X  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:55:44pm

re: #369 Crimsonfisted

Your comment brought back a memory. A bale of marijuana washed up on shore in Ft Lauderdale. NOTHING, not even a decaying, dessicated, dead horse, could ever smell as bad as that salt watered infested marijuana bale as it was drying out.

We used to call that "stink weed".

377 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:56:05pm

re: #371 sattv4u2

You in the habit of sniffing a decaying, dessicated, dead horse,, are ya??

//

Actually by the time they're dessicated the smell is mostly gone.

Don't ask me how I know that.

378 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:56:25pm
379 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:56:31pm

re: #372 Racer X

... and these are the idiots who want to run health care.

Car dealers?

"We'll replace any heart for $399.99! While-U-Wait!"

380 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:56:51pm
381 Racer X  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:56:51pm

Oop!

THEY.

Not We.

They.

382 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:56:52pm

re: #377 Cato the Elder

Actually by the time they're dessicated the smell is mostly gone.

Don't ask me how I know that.

Minored in it while at Dale Carnegie?

383 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:57:05pm

re: #375 CyanSnowHawk

You have to rely on hypothetical future situations to make your point?

384 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:57:21pm

re: #378 taxfreekiller

If this keeps up-- it will be a monsoon.

385 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:57:28pm

re: #369 Crimsonfisted

Your comment brought back a memory. A bale of marijuana washed up on shore in Ft Lauderdale. NOTHING, not even a decaying, dessicated, dead horse, could ever smell as bad as that salt watered infested marijuana bale as it was drying out.

But once it did dry, it was pretty good smoke for the money, no?

386 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:57:32pm
387 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:57:46pm

re: #351 Cato the Elder

I've done my basic reading, but thanks for your opinion.

388 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:58:16pm

re: #377 Cato the Elder

A graduate of the Cosa Nostra Culinary Institute?

389 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:58:51pm

re: #386 taxfreekiller

Nancy Pelosi will not hold his umbrella.

Ew. I don't think he wants her touching it!

390 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:59:16pm

re: #359 Cato the Elder

You will once you read my link.

I read it; didn't see McVeighs name appear in the other cases. If I missed it, I apologize.

391 Racer X  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:59:22pm

re: #378 taxfreekiller

Obama is about to meet up with a rainy day.

Obama has tripled down on the deficit. What will he do if/when we have another major natural disaster? Katrina? Earthquake? Terror attack?

How will he pay for aid?

Will he continue to "stimulate the economy" and let those in need starve?

Or will he just put our kids kids kids deeper in debt.

392 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:59:39pm

re: #383 Sharmuta

You have to rely on hypothetical future situations to make your point?

In response to this assertion, "An American political party gaining influence doesn't kill people," yes.

393 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 5:59:42pm

re: #387 BatGuano

I've done my basic reading, but thanks for your opinion.

So, McVeigh has no followers/fellow travelers/admirers/potential imitators? And those nonexistent people have never done nothing to no one? That what you're saying?

394 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:00:05pm

re: #392 CyanSnowHawk

Then it's a weak argument.

395 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:00:26pm

re: #390 BatGuano

I read it; didn't see McVeighs name appear in the other cases. If I missed it, I apologize.

Does a jihadist have to reference al Qutb to be a jihadist?

396 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:00:35pm

re: #394 Sharmuta

Then it's a weak argument.

Meaning- you got nothing.

397 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:00:45pm

re: #391 Racer X

Obama has tripled down on the deficit. What will he do if/when we have another major natural disaster? Katrina? Earthquake? Terror attack?

How will he pay for aid?

Go to his friends in the UN?

398 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:01:59pm

re: #394 Sharmuta

Then it's a weak argument.

No weaker than yours asserting that I am defending the Viper militia.

399 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:02:15pm
400 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:03:08pm

re: #383 Sharmuta

You have to rely on hypothetical future situations to make your point?

/as opposed to speculating what right wing gun nuts might do at a town hall?

401 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:03:14pm

re: #398 CyanSnowHawk

You think you need to watch out for union people more than people who perpetrate this.

402 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:03:29pm

re: #399 MikeySDCA

When in trouble, when in doubt,
Run in circles, scream and shout.

Actual quote:

When in danger
or in doubt,
run in circles,
scream and shout.

By Heinlein.

403 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:04:22pm
404 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:04:24pm

re: #400 Killian Bundy

/as opposed to speculating what right wing gun nuts might do at a town hall?

You, of course, have a linky to show how an American political party gaining influence has killed people?

405 Hawaii69  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:05:12pm

re: #205 Cato the Elder

But, Sharmuta, they were planning to start a geranium business.

No, they were actually hoping to get their hands on some weapons grade Geranium...

...til someone pointed them to Wikipedia.

406 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:05:26pm

re: #400 Killian Bundy

/as opposed to speculating what right wing gun nuts might do at a town hall?

THERE WILL BE BLOOD thread again?

LOL.

407 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:05:50pm

re: #377 Cato the Elder

Actually by the time they're dessicated the smell is mostly gone.

Don't ask me how I know that.

Well, the alliteration was cool. And I WAS wondering.re: #371 sattv4u2

You in the habit of sniffing a decaying, dessicated, dead horse,, are ya??

//

ew, but funny!
re: #385 Cato the Elder

But once it did dry, it was pretty good smoke for the money, no?


If you didn't mind the revolting and non-stop vomiting from the odor, I guess. It was bad, the stench. All these years later, I still remember. The cops carted it away in short order.

408 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:05:59pm

re: #369 Crimsonfisted

Interesting. I was walking the beach in Panama City at midnight one summer back in the 1980s, and several large bales of something wrapped in plastic had floated to the water's edge. Two men were struggling with one of the bales, and I quickly walked away. I was unarmed and outnumbered at the time, and didn't want to seem too inquisitive.

409 HelloDare  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:06:16pm

re: #402 Cato the Elder

Actual quote:

When in danger
or in doubt,
run in circles,
scream and shout.

By Heinlein.

And clutch your towel. - Douglas Adams

410 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:06:36pm

re: #404 Sharmuta

You, of course, have a linky to show how an American political party gaining influence has killed people?

/maybe, if I could figure out what the hell that even means

411 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:07:36pm

re: #393 Cato the Elder

So, McVeigh has no followers/fellow travelers/admirers/potential imitators? And those nonexistent people have never done nothing to no one? That what you're saying?

Nope. Mcveigh was avenging what he thought was an injustice at Waco. I'm not aware of a link between McVeigh and subsequent planned or actual attacks by the extreme right.

412 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:07:40pm

re: #408 quickjustice

Smart move.

413 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:07:41pm

re: #402 Cato the Elder

Actual quote:

When in danger
or in doubt,
run in circles,
scream and shout.

By Heinlein.

When all about you are losing their heads and you somehow remain calm, it means you haven't checked your messages.

414 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:07:42pm

re: #391 Racer X

Obama has tripled down on the deficit. What will he do if/when we have another major natural disaster? Katrina? Earthquake? Terror attack?

How will he pay for aid?

Will he continue to "stimulate the economy" and let those in need starve?

Or will he just put our kids kids kids deeper in debt.


Sell California to the Chinese?

415 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:08:08pm

re: #410 Killian Bundy

The ascent of the Republican Party led directly to the deaths of more than 500,000 soldiers, Union and Confederate.

416 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:08:33pm

re: #408 quickjustice

A true southerner would have said, "Hey boys! Y'all need some help there?"

417 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:08:36pm

re: #414 Jim in Virginia

Sell California to the Chinese?

The Chinese aren't buying any more American debt.

/

418 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:08:49pm

re: #331 Alouette

The perpetrators of 9/11 are dead.

This is semantics I guess. The guys that executed the actual 9/11 attack are dead.When you're on a suicide mission , you don't get a redo.
The planners & supporters are perps & they are out there & they haven't got all slobering & loving us. They still intend tio kill us.

419 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:10:05pm

re: #401 Sharmuta

You think you need to watch out for union people more than people who perpetrate this.

The people that perpetrated are dead or locked up for life. Is my hypothetical situation that a group that has threatened to wipe Israel off the map, and is actively pursuing the weapons to do just that, will do it, not as valid as your hypothetical situation that another group of people will do something like what the Oklahoma City bombers did?

420 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:10:10pm

re: #414 Jim in Virginia

I hear that Chinese investors are purchasing many of the housing tracts in California and elsewhere built but unsold as a consequence of the credit bubble at fire sale prices.

421 jcm  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:10:13pm

re: #409 HelloDare

And clutch your towel. - Douglas Adams

DON'T PANIC
*in large friendly letters*

422 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:11:18pm

re: #416 calcajun

A true southerner would have been carrying.

423 HelloDare  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:11:43pm

re: #413 calcajun

When all about you are losing their heads and you somehow remain calm, it means you haven't checked your messages.

To paraphrase Jeff Foxworthy:

When all about you are losing their heads, you just might be an Islamic terrorist.

424 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:12:01pm

re: #411 BatGuano

Nope. Mcveigh was avenging what he thought was an injustice at Waco. I'm not aware of a link between McVeigh and subsequent planned or actual attacks by the extreme right.

And all those ideological convergences between McVeigh and the extreme right wingbats of yesterday, today and tomorrow are purely coincidental, right?

You are either willfully blind, in which case take off the sunglasses, or just blind, in which case I pity you.

425 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:12:19pm

Must get supper. Later.

426 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:12:39pm

re: #395 Cato the Elder

Does a jihadist have to reference al Qutb to be a jihadist?

No, nor do they need to reference Muhammed Wahhab. Just a reference the prophet Muhammad is sufficient.

427 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:12:45pm
428 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:13:38pm

re: #391 Racer X

Obama has tripled down on the deficit.

That doesn't even take into account health care "reform" or cap and trade.

/the camel's back can only take so many straws

429 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:13:41pm

Florida man pleads guilty to threat to kill Obama


A Florida man pleaded guilty on Wednesday to threatening to kill President Barack Obama in an e-mail that said "the blood of Obama will run down the streets" of the U.S. capital, a federal prosecutor said.
...
Wine said in the poorly spelled note he would "not mind going behind bars for being a trigger man on this tyrent."

"I will not rest until this tyrant of america is gunned down," the note said. "The blood of Obama will run down the streets of D.C."

No date was immediately announced for sentencing.

Wine was indicted in the federal case in January after surrendering to police on a local warrant charging him with stealing a gun.

430 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:13:45pm

re: #424 Cato the Elder

And all those ideological convergences between McVeigh and the extreme right wingbats of yesterday, today and tomorrow are purely coincidental, right?

You are either willfully blind, in which case take off the sunglasses, or just blind, in which case I pity you.

I appreciate your pity, goodnight.

431 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:13:52pm

re: #419 CyanSnowHawk

You've moved the goal post. You said a political party gaining influence was more insidious than fringe kooks plotting for revolution. I disagree and have said why. You have no historical record to turn to, but I do. So, in order to make your case, you have to turn to a hypothetical and make it international. But I guess you could say the rising influence of the Republican party killed a lot of Southerners. [eye-roll]

432 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:13:59pm

Sleeper time!

433 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:14:45pm

re: #426 BatGuano

No, nor do they need to reference Muhammed Wahhab. Just a reference the prophet Muhammad is sufficient.

Then a reference to black helicopters should be enough to convict of waco tendencies.

434 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:14:46pm

Can't touch this!

435 Bloodnok  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:15:10pm

re: #432 Charles

Sleeper time!

436 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:16:03pm

Baird receives death threats: U.S. Capitol Police investigate messages

The fax to Baird included a Communist hammer-and-sickle symbol on Obama’s forehead and the words, "Death to All Marxists! Foreign and Domestic!" under the photo.

437 jcm  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:16:08pm

re: #427 dpatten

dpatten
Web site URL:
[Link: www.blogstudio.com...]

(Logged in)
Registered since: Sep 25, 2005 at 2:28 pm
No. of comments posted: 27
No. of links posted: 0

Normally I like to engage. But your intent is drop a turd in the punch bowl and run like a coward.

438 jaunte  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:16:17pm

The only reason to bring weapons to a political rally is to suggest to your opponents that you are prepared to use those weapons to support your point of view by force.

439 freetoken  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:16:21pm

Perhaps I'm the last one to see this, though I've not seen it discussed here:

Who to trust? Which is the real fauxtography?

440 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:16:25pm

re: #424 Cato the Elder

And all those ideological convergences between McVeigh and the extreme right wingbats of yesterday, today and tomorrow are purely coincidental, right?

You are either willfully blind, in which case take off the sunglasses, or just blind, in which case I pity you.


Oh, and please reveal the names of the future right "wingbats". I support law enforcement.

441 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:16:43pm

re: #434 Charles

Can't touch this!

Parachute Pants Charles? Somebody nuke the video!
:)

442 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:16:48pm

re: #420 quickjustice

I hear that Chinese investors are purchasing many of the housing tracts in California and elsewhere built but unsold as a consequence of the credit bubble at fire sale prices.

Good for them.

443 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:17:04pm
444 dpatten  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:18:43pm

re: #437 jcm

Sometimes turds need to be dropped in punch bowls, particularly if they're filled with Kool-aid...

445 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:18:48pm

re: #440 BatGuano

Oh, and please reveal the names of the future right "wingbats". I support law enforcement.

They reveal themselves daily. For the rest, I have confidence in our investigative services.

446 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:18:58pm

re: #409 HelloDare

And clutch your towel. - Douglas Adams

Always remember to bring a towel. - Towelie

447 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:18:59pm

re: #433 Cato the Elder

Then a reference to black helicopters should be enough to convict of waco tendencies.

Your sentence mad no sense to me.

448 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:19:19pm

re: #444 dpatten

Have a nice half-life.

449 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:20:05pm

re: #447 BatGuano

Your sentence mad no sense to me.

I expect it didn't.

450 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:20:10pm

re: #440 BatGuano

Oh, and please reveal the names of the future right "wingbats". I support law enforcement.

He's gone. McVeigh didn't really belong to any group. He was just a vicious nut. Think about this ,a Militia kicked him out. How do you ever advance in polite society after that?

451 freetoken  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:20:18pm

Fortunately, Sudden Flounce Syndrome is not a communicable disease.

452 dpatten  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:20:46pm

re: #448 Cato the Elder

Have a nice half-life.

You'll have to explain that one to me...

453 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:21:11pm

re: #427 dpatten

There are several logical disconnects in your post.

First, does legitimate criticism of a militia group mean that Charles has suddenly gone moonbat? (I think not.)

Second, we're not discussing violations of the law. We are discussing extremely poor judgment on the part of armed people in close proximity to the President who are promptly labeled "Republicans" by the leftist media, whether they are or not. That hurts us all.

Third, Beck is contemptible, even if you're a Republican. Did you see his pathetic, lying performance with Whoopi Goldberg and Barbara Walters?

And fourth, we still don't know who Barack Obama really is. He is gradually exposing himself, and I'm not impressed yet. Are you?

454 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:21:56pm

re: #452 dpatten

You'll have to explain that one to me...

Never mind. You will soon understand everything.

455 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:22:10pm

re: #451 freetoken

Fortunately, Sudden Flounce Syndrome is not a communicable disease.

What does flounce mean?

456 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:22:25pm

re: #434 Charles

Can't touch this!

457 Erik The Red  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:23:04pm

re: #443 buzzsawmonkey

I'm seeing an argument here, and for the life of me I can't figure out what it's about.

Not a single person I have seen in this thread has suggested that idiots stockpiling illegal weapons is a good idea, nor that the idiots doing it are not whackjobs.

Some few have noted, however, that these people are so stupid as to call attention to themselves--make themselves targets for surveillance--because they were so sunk in their own bizarro world as to think that toting weapons to a townhall made any statement other than "keep me under surveillance, I'm a loon." And while many of us are skeptical as to the capacities of the federal government, I think most of us are reasonably confident that the government will be more than happy to keep self-proclaimed loons toting weapons under surveillance.

Some others have noted, simultaneously, that there are also thugs appearing at the townhalls who--unlike the weapons-toting loons--have a very definite in with the Administration. Their organizations are politically in bed with the government, which is eager to give them power and concessions--which not only has potentially grave consequences for the society, but means that the excesses of the favored thugs are likely to get a pass.

Recognizing both that there are gun-toting loons who should be closely watched, and that there are other thugs who, watched or not, are engaged in excesses, are not positions, or matters of fact, that are in any way opposed to each other.

So why are people squaring off?

Left vs Right me thinks. We can agree on somethings but fundamentally we will never see eye to eye. I have noticed over the last few months that the divide here seems to be getting bigger and wider. Not good.

458 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:23:16pm

re: #455 opnion

What does flounce mean?

16 flounces in a flounder.

459 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:23:42pm

re: #455 opnion

What does flounce mean?

[Link: encarta.msn.com...]

460 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:23:48pm

re: #454 Cato the Elder

Never mind. You will soon understand everything.


Doubtful.

461 HelloDare  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:23:49pm

re: #444 dpatten

Sometimes turds need to be dropped in punch bowls, particularly if they're filled with Kool-aid...

The klaxon horn has sounded. The troll emerges from its crypt.
... uh, no wait. That was just the guy in the next apartment playing video games. Go back to sleep.

462 TheMatrix31  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:24:10pm

re: #443 buzzsawmonkey

I'm seeing an argument here, and for the life of me I can't figure out what it's about.

Not a single person I have seen in this thread has suggested that idiots stockpiling illegal weapons is a good idea, nor that the idiots doing it are not whackjobs.

Some few have noted, however, that these people are so stupid as to call attention to themselves--make themselves targets for surveillance--because they were so sunk in their own bizarro world as to think that toting weapons to a townhall made any statement other than "keep me under surveillance, I'm a loon." And while many of us are skeptical as to the capacities of the federal government, I think most of us are reasonably confident that the government will be more than happy to keep self-proclaimed loons toting weapons under surveillance.

Some others have noted, simultaneously, that there are also thugs appearing at the townhalls who--unlike the weapons-toting loons--have a very definite in with the Administration. Their organizations are politically in bed with the government, which is eager to give them power and concessions--which not only has potentially grave consequences for the society, but means that the excesses of the favored thugs are likely to get a pass.

Recognizing both that there are gun-toting loons who should be closely watched, and that there are other thugs who, watched or not, are engaged in excesses, are not positions, or matters of fact, that are in any way opposed to each other.

So why are people squaring off?

Seems like people everywhere (not just here) need some freakin' Midol or something.

463 jcm  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:24:39pm

re: #444 dpatten

I'm a bitter clingy gun nut of the 1st order.

Display of weapons at a town hall as a threat is nuts and doesn't help the debate in way, shape or manner.

464 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:24:45pm

re: #439 freetoken

Perhaps I'm the last one to see this, though I've not seen it discussed here:

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

Who to trust? Which is the real fauxtography?

I think that one was settled a while ago. The cigarette pic is fake.

465 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:25:20pm

re: #443 buzzsawmonkey

So why are people squaring off?

People come here for a good argument.

...I suppose.

466 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:25:23pm
467 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:25:31pm

re: #443 buzzsawmonkey

Are you only skimming the thread? Some have made it clear they think these people are not a threat as much as other people are.

468 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:25:57pm

re: #462 TheMatrix31

Seems like people everywhere (not just here) need some freakin' Midol or something.

I'm here for an argument...

469 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:26:05pm

re: #465 Ringo the Gringo

People come here for a good argument.

...I suppose.

No they don't!

/Monty Python

470 Hawaii69  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:26:18pm

re: #427 dpatten

I don't see anyone here saying they don't have
the right to make themselves look like idiots
(Beck included).

471 sngnsgt  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:26:23pm

re: #439 freetoken

Obama did admit to being a smoker and said something like, I'm 95% cured. I haven't heard anything other than that.

472 freetoken  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:27:10pm

re: #464 Killgore Trout

What I find interesting is that the fauxtography now is coming back to haunt the faux-ers... as in this case where it is being used to discredit the AZ Republicans who are using it in their anti-healthcare bill drive.

473 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:27:21pm

re: #450 opnion

He's gone. McVeigh didn't really belong to any group. He was just a vicious nut. Think about this ,a Militia kicked him out. How do you ever advance in polite society after that?

Cato didn't understand that. He thinks McVeigh was some kind of "right wing nut" messiah. When you are kicked out of a militia for being too violent, you don't have a lot of credibility among right wing nuts.

474 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:27:36pm

re: #471 sngnsgt

Obama did admit to being a smoker and said something like, I'm 95% cured. I haven't heard anything other than that.

So he was a smoker
Someone made him The Joker ...

475 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:27:48pm

re: #457 Erik The Red

Left vs Right me thinks. We can agree on somethings but fundamentally we will never see eye to eye. I have noticed over the last few months that the divide here seems to be getting bigger and wider. Not good.

Can't help but notice & the civility level has dropped a lot.
It seems like the rule of the day has become insults & I really don't think that anyone needs to take it, I wont.

476 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:27:52pm

re: #466 buzzsawmonkey

Fantastic work. Worth every upding I've given it!

477 dpatten  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:27:53pm

re: #453 quickjustice

There are several logical disconnects in your post.

First, does legitimate criticism of a militia group mean that Charles has suddenly gone moonbat? (I think not.)

No, it's been a gradual slide toward tinfoil for the most part

Second, we're not discussing violations of the law. We are discussing extremely poor judgment on the part of armed people in close proximity to the President who are promptly labeled "Republicans" by the leftist media, whether they are or not. That hurts us all.

Exercising your right to freedom of expression is never poor judgement. Unless you happen to be Harry Reid talking about Evil-mongers and Astroturf. If you curtail your actions because you fear someone will label you falsely, then you are a coward.

Third, Beck is contemptible, even if you're a Republican. Did you see his pathetic, lying performance with Whoopi Goldberg and Barbara Walters?

That's your opinion. I personally can't stand the guy. I'm a minarchist. I think he's at fairly solid ground with his assertion about Obama however.

And fourth, we still don't know who Barack Obama really is. He is gradually exposing himself, and I'm not impressed yet. Are you?

Obama is the Chameleon everyone on the right was saying e wasbefore the election. he is just another amoral politician.

478 HelloDare  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:27:57pm

re: #439 freetoken

Perhaps I'm the last one to see this, though I've not seen it discussed here:

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

Who to trust? Which is the real fauxtography?

MSNBC not only lives in a glass house, they are currently sitting on the crapper. Seen this:
[Link: hotair.com...]

479 jcm  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:28:53pm

re: #455 opnion

What does flounce mean?

When a troll puts on a tutu and prances off the front of the stage into the orchestra pit.

480 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:29:01pm

re: #459 OldLineTexan

[Link: encarta.msn.com...]

Ah Hah, now I got it. Thanks.

481 dpatten  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:30:08pm

re: #461 HelloDare

Sorry, not a troll. Unless you define troll as someone who doesn't engage in the masturbatory group-think LGF's comments section has become of late.

482 Lee Coller  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:30:08pm

re: #477 dpatten

First rule of holes -- when you're in one stop digging.

483 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:30:10pm

re: #479 jcm

When a troll puts on a tutu and prances off the front of the stage into the orchestra pit.

Rham Emanuel.

484 JHW  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:30:17pm

re: #436 Killgore Trout

I wonder if Baird's going to run again, hw's been catching hell from all sides.From 2007 Insurgency at Vancouver

485 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:30:37pm

re: #449 Cato the Elder

I expect it didn't.

It was by design to be nonsensical? I see where you're coming from.

486 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:30:40pm

re: #477 dpatten


Exercising your right to freedom of expression is never poor judgement. Unless you happen to be Harry Reid talking about Evil-mongers and Astroturf. If you curtail your actions because you fear someone will label you falsely, then you are a coward.

No, assessing a situation and making a judgement that doing "x" is probably inappropriate and not a good idea is smart, not cowardly.

487 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:30:44pm

re: #479 jcm

When a troll puts on a tutu and prances off the front of the stage into the orchestra pit.

ROTFLMAO!

488 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:30:58pm

re: #477 dpatten

How long do you think you'll last?

489 jcm  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:31:33pm

re: #481 dpatten

Sorry, not a troll. Unless you define troll as someone who doesn't engage in the masturbatory group-think LGF's comments section has become of late.

490 dpatten  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:31:39pm

re: #482 Lee Coller

So put down your shovel.

491 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:31:47pm

re: #481 dpatten

LMAO! Yeah- we're just one big, happy echo chamber. We all parrot each other and never disagree! lolol

492 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:31:57pm

re: #473 BatGuano

re: #450 opnion


Cato didn't understand that. He thinks McVeigh was some kind of "right wing nut" messiah. When you are kicked out of a militia for being too violent, you don't have a lot of credibility among right wing nuts.

I don't think Cato said anything of the sort.

493 Erik The Red  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:32:20pm

re: #481 dpatten

Sorry, not a troll. Unless you define troll as someone who doesn't engage in the masturbatory group-think LGF's comments section has become of late.

What site are you talking about? That can't be further from the truth here.

494 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:32:23pm

re: #481 dpatten

So now you switch from insulting Charles to insulting the forum in general. Real class act you are. You'll fit in great at the stalker blog.

GAZE

495 Lee Coller  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:32:30pm

re: #477 dpatten

Exercising your right to freedom of expression is never poor judgement. Unless you happen to be Harry Reid talking about Evil-mongers and Astroturf. If you curtail your actions because you fear someone will label you falsely, then you are a coward.

No, that's called being smart and not distracting from the true issue.

496 dpatten  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:32:30pm

re: #488 Sharmuta

Probably til 10:00 Eastern. Then I have to go to bed. I have work in the morning.

497 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:32:43pm

re: #473 BatGuano

Cato didn't understand that. He thinks McVeigh was some kind of "right wing nut" messiah. When you are kicked out of a militia for being too violent, you don't have a lot of credibility among right wing nuts.

That's right. Every time a Leftie or Jihadi does some outrage McVeigh gets rolled out.
No Conservatives defended McVeigh, it's a strawman.

498 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:32:59pm

re: #481 dpatten

re: #461 HelloDare

Sorry, not a troll. Unless you define troll as someone who doesn't engage in the masturbatory group-think LGF's comments section has become of late.

Have you noticed that we're arguing in here like cats and dogs this evening?

499 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:33:05pm

re: #491 Sharmuta

LMAO! Yeah- we're just one big, happy echo chamber. We all parrot each other and never disagree! lolol

Seems as if he/she has not been paying much attention lately.

500 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:33:17pm

re: #478 HelloDare

MSNBC not only lives in a glass house, they are currently sitting on the crapper. Seen this:
[Link: hotair.com...]

"Some kind of Mark Hinckley thing"?

501 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:33:39pm

re: #490 dpatten

So put down your shovel.

OK...

[Dark_Falcon cracks the troll upside the head with the shovel, then finishes putting the charcoal on the grill]

502 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:34:06pm

re: #431 Sharmuta

Fine, call me a racist now, that's what you meant by that 'Southern' crack, didn't you? Why not just call me a fucking nazi and satisfy Godwin?

Feel free to think as you see fit, I made my own point about why I felt one way about it.

Lots of little actions that lead to big political change in favor of the goals of the perpetrators, which will affect millions of lives in myriad negative ways, up to and including loss of some of those said lives, v. one big event that destroys lives, sometimes by the thousands, yet doesn't achieve the goals of the perpetrators.

I don't want either one, but don't let your obviously mistaken beliefs about me allow you to believe that. I leave you to your thoughts and beliefs, I've got some other things to do now.

503 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:34:10pm

re: #499 reine.de.tout

Seems as if he/she has not been paying much attention lately.

Not even on this thread.

504 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:34:28pm

Hmm, let's see. What might get somebody blocked? Maybe "masturbatory group think?"

Yep, that'll do it.

505 Lee Coller  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:34:49pm

re: #496 dpatten

Probably til 10:00 Eastern. Then I have to go to bed. I have work in the morning.

How about 9:33PM eastern?

506 Erik The Red  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:34:50pm

re: #501 Dark_Falcon

OK...

[Dark_Falcon cracks the troll upside the head with the shovel, then finishes putting the charcoal on the grill]

Cooler full of ice and adult beverages.

507 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:34:57pm

re: #481 dpatten Group think? Looks like a pretty healthy discussion upthread.
Try starting your own blog. I'm sure Mom won't mind.

508 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:35:03pm

re: #466 buzzsawmonkey

You have a talent, no doubt.

509 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:35:07pm

Everyone -

This Screwball is a Militia "wannabe" - if it gives him fulfillment in his mind, super. If it goes beyond that arrest/commit him. REAL MILITIAS need REAL SOLDIERS - and He 'Ain't IT - probably would have washed out of "BASIC" for reasons OTHER than Physical Capabilities.

-S-

510 Hawaii69  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:35:08pm

re: #473 BatGuano

re: #450 opnion


Cato didn't understand that. He thinks McVeigh was some kind of "right wing nut" messiah. When you are kicked out of a militia for being too violent, you don't have a lot of credibility among right wing nuts.

I'd think that would boost his credibility through the roof.

511 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:35:31pm

re: #502 CyanSnowHawk

Fine, call me a racist now, that's what you meant by that 'Southern' crack, didn't you? Why not just call me a fucking nazi and satisfy Godwin?

Damn! That's not what I meant at all, but if you're going to fly off the handle, go right ahead.

512 jcm  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:35:39pm

re: #503 Sharmuta

Not even on this thread.

One comment every six weeks, I can barely keep up...

513 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:35:50pm

Charles has just booted dpatten. In honor of our first meltdown of the night, feel free to order a drink to go with your Grilled Troll.

514 Danny  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:36:09pm

Cool! I finally got to see a live banning!

515 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:36:20pm

re: #443 buzzsawmonkey

You are right, and I am going to disengage. I like Sharm, but sometimes I get my back up.

516 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:36:47pm

No, nobody supported McVeigh. Certainly no bible-quoting conservative wingbats.

Any resemblance between Tim's multitudinous obsessions and those of existing groups is merely optical illusion. Nothing to see, go back to sleep.

517 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:36:58pm

re: #502 CyanSnowHawk

Fine, call me a racist now, that's what you meant by that 'Southern' crack, didn't you? Why not just call me a fucking nazi and satisfy Godwin?

Feel free to think as you see fit, I made my own point about why I felt one way about it.

Lots of little actions that lead to big political change in favor of the goals of the perpetrators, which will affect millions of lives in myriad negative ways, up to and including loss of some of those said lives, v. one big event that destroys lives, sometimes by the thousands, yet doesn't achieve the goals of the perpetrators.

I don't want either one, but don't let your obviously mistaken beliefs about me allow you to believe that. I leave you to your thoughts and beliefs, I've got some other things to do now.

I think it was a reference to Lincoln and the civil war.

518 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:37:13pm

re: #422 quickjustice

It's why we would have been friendly.

519 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:37:25pm

re: #517 reine.de.tout

I think it was a reference to Lincoln and the civil war.

Might be someone wants to be offended.

520 kansas  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:37:36pm

re: #471 sngnsgt

Obama did admit to being a smoker and said something like, I'm 95% cured. I haven't heard anything other than that.

My partner only smokes 5% of the time too. Gets about a pack a day in.

521 jcm  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:37:50pm

re: #514 Danny

Cool! I finally got to see a live banning!

Your order will be up momentarily!

522 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:37:55pm

re: #498 SanFranciscoZionist

Have you noticed that we're arguing in here like cats and dogs this evening?

Oh you should have been around earlier this morning. IMO there are some folks that just want conformity & like to denigrate anybody who is not in lockstep. Hint, they really like Obama.

523 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:38:36pm

re: #481 dpatten

Now maybe you understand "half-life".

524 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:38:46pm

re: #498 SanFranciscoZionist

Have you noticed that we're arguing in here like cats and dogs this evening?

No, cats and dogs actually get along better.//

525 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:38:49pm

re: #510 Hawaii69

I'd think that would boost his credibility through the roof.

But he didn't have the cred.

526 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:39:14pm

re: #519 Sharmuta

Might be someone wants to be offended.

naw.
I think people are just tired.

527 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:39:33pm

re: #521 jcm

You reminded me-- I have brisket at home!

Damn stomach flu!

528 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:40:13pm

re: #502 CyanSnowHawk

CyanSnowHawk -

The first Jewish Attorney General was that of the CSA Judah P. Benjamin. A FACT (Stubborn Things Them).
Even Harry Jaffa agrees that in the early days, the CSA had the advantage by acting FIRST.

-S-

529 jcm  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:40:18pm

re: #527 calcajun

You reminded me-- I have brisket at home!

Damn stomach flu!

My sympathies!

530 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:40:24pm

re: #519 Sharmuta

Might be someone wants to be offended.

But...I came here for an argument-- not abuse./

531 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:41:09pm

re: #485 BatGuano

It was by design to be nonsensical? I see where you're coming from.

No, I just suspect logical connections and analogies are lost on you.

532 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:41:10pm

re: #510 Hawaii69

I'd think that would boost his credibility through the roof.

Perhaps it would. It's hard for me to get in the heads of murderous loons. I object to the thesis that McVeigh is still a major player in right wing violence.

533 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:41:12pm

re: #523 Cato the Elder

Half-baked from the sounds of what happened.

534 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:42:41pm

re: #507 Jim in Virginia

Group think? Looks like a pretty healthy discussion upthread.
Try starting your own blog. I'm sure Mom won't mind.

Channeling GB Shaw-- maybe he can get his friends to join him--if he has any.

535 Jim in Virginia  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:42:53pm

re: #522 opnion And who might that be??
//

536 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:43:17pm

re: #532 BatGuano

Perhaps it would. It's hard for me to get in the heads of murderous loons. I object to the thesis that McVeigh is still a major player in right wing violence.

He is not a major player. His obsessions are.

537 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:43:42pm

re: #485 BatGuano

re: #531 Cato the Elder

SMACK, SMACK!

Stop the squabbling you two!

538 calcajun  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:44:24pm

re: #479 jcm

When a troll puts on a tutu and prances off the front of the stage into the orchestra LGF BBQ pit.

FTFY

539 jcm  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:45:19pm

re: #538 calcajun

FTFY

Ahhh! Much better!

540 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:46:14pm

OK, the "troll in a tutu" image (my mental one, the link didn't work) made me laugh so hard I think I'm going to need Obamacare to fix my hernias.

541 Erik The Red  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:48:28pm

re: #540 Cato the Elder

OK, the "troll in a tutu" image (my mental one, the link didn't work) made me laugh so hard I think I'm going to need Obamacare to fix my hernias.

You are going to have to get in line. May take a few years to be fixed. Unless it is life threatening than you will only have to wait a few months.

542 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:48:42pm

re: #540 Cato the Elder

OK, the "troll in a tutu" image (my mental one, the link didn't work) made me laugh so hard I think I'm going to need Obamacare to fix my hernias.

I hope you enjoy pain. There's a five-week wait for that procedure under Obamacare.

/not really kidding

543 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:48:49pm

re: #531 Cato the Elder

No, I just suspect logical connections and analogies are lost on you.

You can't help it. You must resort to personal attack (at least twice now). If I am not worth your time please don't respond to my posts. And I would like you to formulate your black helicopter sentence so I can understand it. Not everyone on LGF is as smart as you.

"Then a reference to black helicopters should be enough to convict of waco tendencies."

544 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:49:03pm

re: #541 Erik The Red

re: #542 Dark_Falcon

GMTA

545 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:50:24pm

re: #528 Dr. Shalit

Reply to Self -

AND President Lincoln suspended "The Great Writ" in the State of Maryland within 60 days of taking office. Lincoln understood that the Constitution was NOT a Suicide Pact. He went on to save the Union, about 3/4 of a million KIA later in a population of about 35 Million.
This year we are celebrating the 200th Anniversary of His Birth, with 4 new Pennies from the US Mint - costing 1.4 cents each to produce.
Who was this man? A savior?, A Romantic?, A Butcher?.
What say ye'all?

-S-

546 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 6:55:24pm

re: #536 Cato the Elder

He is not a major player. His obsessions are.

I thought you said he was! I'm done. you've got Df and Sal on you side. I'm outgunned. Thank you for the exchange.

547 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 7:06:09pm

re: #537 Dark_Falcon

re: #531 Cato the Elder

SMACK, SMACK!

Stop the squabbling you two!

Squabbling has ended. thanks.

548 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 7:09:42pm

re: #543 BatGuano

You can't help it. You must resort to personal attack (at least twice now). If I am not worth your time please don't respond to my posts. And I would like you to formulate your black helicopter sentence so I can understand it. Not everyone on LGF is as smart as you.

"Then a reference to black helicopters should be enough to convict of waco tendencies."

[sighs, goes to blackboard, erases Pythagorean theorem and syllogisms, takes up chalk, and writes]

1) You (pronoun) said (predicate): "Just a reference [to] the prophet Muhammad is sufficient [to make a jihadist a jihadist]." (direct quotation) [the bits in square brackets deduced from context]

2) I (pronoun) said (predicate): "Then a reference to black helicopters should be enough to convict of waco tendencies." (direct quotation)

3) The phrases (sentence fragments) "the prophet Muhammad" and "black helicopters" correspond (logical copula). "Is sufficient" and "should be enough", ditto. (Sufficient comes from Lat. sufficere, to meet the need [of]). Your implied [jihadist] and my "waco tendencies", ebenfalls.

4) The neologism "waco" (adjective) corresponds to the (implied) jihadist tendencies in your statement (1). It is also a pun (wordplay) on "wacko" vel "whacko" and "Waco", suggesting the kind of thing that motivated McVeigh and still motivates his brothers-in-lunacy.

The first logic lessen is free. All subsequent sessions may be paid on a sliding-scale basis, at the discretion of your instructor.

[puts down chalk, dusts hands, coughs, bows, heads for exit and a glass of vinho verde]

549 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 7:24:38pm

Who referred to black helicopters? I missed the wacko Waco pun: it must have been good. Waco is not a neologism: It has been in existence before you were born. Unless you mean the word as an adjective in which case you invented it.
Thank you for the free instruction.

550 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 7:37:32pm

re: #549 BatGuano

Who referred to black helicopters? I missed the wacko Waco pun: it must have been good. Waco is not a neologism: It has been in existence before you were born. Unless you mean the word as an adjective in which case you invented it.
Thank you for the free instruction.

Who mentioned Muhammad? You did. I mentioned black helicopters. Spelling "whacko" or "wacko" as "waco" on purpose was a pun - you don't have to appreciate it. Wit is in the eye of the witholder. And I was born before the town of Waco was founded.

You're welcome.

Any other questions?

;^)

551 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 7:56:03pm

re: #550 Cato the Elder

Who mentioned Muhammad? You did. I mentioned black helicopters. Spelling "whacko" or "wacko" as "waco" on purpose was a pun - you don't have to appreciate it. Wit is in the eye of the witholder. And I was born before the town of Waco was founded.

You're welcome.

Any other questions?

;^)

I mentioned Muhammed: That is not in dispute. What of it?. The whacko, wacko, waco "pun" was not a pun, and least not discernible.
"And I was born before the town of Waco was founded."


Of course you were born before the town was founded. My Grandmother was born there in 1895.
Me: "It has been in existence before you were born."
You: "Any other questions?"
Me: Yeah, what the hell are you talking about.? And you still haven't explained the black helicopter crack.

552 Hawaii69  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 7:56:36pm

re: #532 BatGuano

re: #510 Hawaii69


Perhaps it would. It's hard for me to get in the heads of murderous loons. I object to the thesis that McVeigh is still a major player in right wing violence.

More of folk hero, in some circles.

553 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:00:11pm

re: #552 Hawaii69

More of folk hero, in some circles.

I don't travel in those circles so I don't know. I'm questioning that McVeigh is still influential among right wing extremists.

554 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:08:11pm

BBl

555 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:12:55pm

re: #551 BatGuano

I mentioned Muhammed: That is not in dispute. What of it?. The whacko, wacko, waco "pun" was not a pun, and least not discernible.
"And I was born before the town of Waco was founded."

Of course you were born before the town was founded. My Grandmother was born there in 1895.
Me: "It has been in existence before you were born."
You: "Any other questions?"
Me: Yeah, what the hell are you talking about.? And you still haven't explained the black helicopter crack.

stultior esse potes?

556 BatGuano  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:59:33pm

re: #555 Cato the Elder

Thank you, thank you very much. You are a scholar.

557 tatterdemalian  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:22:20pm

re: #509 Dr. Shalit

Everyone -

This Screwball is a Militia "wannabe" - if it gives him fulfillment in his mind, super. If it goes beyond that arrest/commit him. REAL MILITIAS need REAL SOLDIERS - and He 'Ain't IT - probably would have washed out of "BASIC" for reasons OTHER than Physical Capabilities.

-S-

I'm pretty sure any militia with REAL SOLDIERS would be called an "army," not a "militia." Militias aren't supposed to be armies, they're what's left when both the army and the police are too busy elsewhere to protect anyone.

As for these guys, they're screwballs, but if they were violent or even particularly paranoid screwballs there would have been dead people at that gathering. They're just cranks with guns they'll never have much use for beyond giving left-wingers the vapors.

558 Seax  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:25:03pm

Tanto = a knife
Wakashasi = Short Sword
Katana = Long Sword - that left scars on my fingers
Daito = Longer than Katana
Seax = Viking knife - sort of like a Tanto but upside down in silhoutte.

559 ernunnos  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 12:03:07am

I've been in Phoenix since the early '90s. I know Ernie, although I've lost touch over the years. Equating him with the "Viper Militia" is kinda' low. Yes, he knew them and defended them publicly, but Ernie knows everybody. He's one of the most gregarious people I've ever met. Listen to the audio from the demonstration on Monday. He spends quite a bit of time chatting with the cops, who greet him warmly, and with Kyrsten Sinema, a Democratic state rep. If you try to tar him with his associations over the years, you're going to need a brush that covers most of Arizona!

560 idioma  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 1:07:11am

I'll say it again: This is America's Taliban.

561 ernunnos  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 2:12:34am

re: #560 idioma

Listen to the audio. You'll hear laughing, chatting, jovial good relations with law enforcement, and with people on the other side of the political spectrum. Yes, many of them are truthers, yes, they're generally anti-war, and I disagree with them strongly on both those points. But their general attitude is that of good natured pranksters. (eg. One of their protests involved driving past speed cameras wearing masks that looked like... speed cameras. I suspect these are the same bunch who walked around town in Santa suits last Christmas and put gift-wrapped boxes over several cameras.) These are not people motivated by either hatred or a desire to control others.

I hope you're right. If this is America's Taliban, if outrageous but peaceful protesters are the worst we have to deal with, we're all very, very fortunate.

562 quickjustice  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 6:12:25am

re: #477 dpatten

"Exercising your right to freedom of expression" can be poor judgment if what you have to say is stupid or ignorant. And brandishing a firearm while exercising your right to freedom of expression may create the impression that you intend to resort to violence to support your opinion. I think that also is poor judgment at best, and insane at worst. Do you think provoking violence a good thing?

563 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:10:54am

Another sleeper shows up to defend these raving kooks.

564 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 11:21:40am

re: #491 Sharmuta

LMAO! Yeah- we're just one big, happy echo chamber. We all parrot each other and never disagree! lolol

I totally agree!

565 tatterdemalian  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 11:23:17am

re: #563 Charles

Another sleeper shows up to defend these raving kooks.

There's probably a lot of us among your older membership, Charles. I do think they have the right to say what they say, as stupid and easily disproven as it is, and the right to carry guns while they say it. I don't feel we should set a precedent where people need to be disarmed before they dissent, because like so many of the social precedents that media personalities set, it's going to come back and bite us on the ass when the argument eventually turns to "do the Israelis have the right to be armed or not?" and people start passing around videos of heavily armed ultra-Orthodox Israelis.

The fact is, there is no idea - democracy, communism, even the General Theory of Relativity - that cannot be casually dismissed as "stupid and ignorant" by people who don't want to believe in them. Of those three, only Relativity can actually be tested by experiments that would fail if it was false, which is why it's as close to fact as anything can be. For everything that falls outside the realm of science, decisions are made based on popular opinion as measured either through voting or through the last side standing after a civil war, and "exercising your right to freedom of expression" is the only peaceful way to reach an agreement on things we feel, but can never actually scientifically prove, are right or wrong.

Being worried about people who seem "prepared to do violence" is more a sign that your side needs to do more to indicate that you're ready to fight back, should the other side choose to abandon the ballot box and take up arms, than it is to insist your opponents should be disarmed in spite of laws that allow them to open carry. If the left really wanted peace, they would keep themselves as prepared for war as the right is.

566 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 11:30:23am

re: #516 Cato the Elder

No, nobody supported McVeigh. Certainly no bible-quoting conservative wingbats.

Any resemblance between Tim's multitudinous obsessions and those of existing groups is merely optical illusion. Nothing to see, go back to sleep.

What do you mean, that's only one person!
/ (I would hope it's not needed)

567 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 11:32:04am

re: #519 Sharmuta

Might be someone wants to be offended.

I got what you meant, but I was a bit surprised there was not a tiny bit of elaboration!

568 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 11:35:25am

re: #522 opnion

Oh you should have been around earlier this morning. IMO there are some folks that just want conformity & like to denigrate anybody who is not in lockstep. Hint, they really like Obama.

On this board?
That's not fair, or true, IMO.
Those who like Obama are vastly outnumbered here, so I really fail to see your comment make much sense, except as snark.

569 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 11:48:45am

re: #565 tatterdemalian

There's probably a lot of us among your older membership, Charles. I do think they have the right to say what they say, as stupid and easily disproven as it is, and the right to carry guns while they say it. I don't feel we should set a precedent where people need to be disarmed before they dissent, because like so many of the social precedents that media personalities set, it's going to come back and bite us on the ass when the argument eventually turns to "do the Israelis have the right to be armed or not?" and people start passing around videos of heavily armed ultra-Orthodox Israelis.

The fact is, there is no idea - democracy, communism, even the General Theory of Relativity - that cannot be casually dismissed as "stupid and ignorant" by people who don't want to believe in them. Of those three, only Relativity can actually be tested by experiments that would fail if it was false, which is why it's as close to fact as anything can be. For everything that falls outside the realm of science, decisions are made based on popular opinion as measured either through voting or through the last side standing after a civil war, and "exercising your right to freedom of expression" is the only peaceful way to reach an agreement on things we feel, but can never actually scientifically prove, are right or wrong.

Being worried about people who seem "prepared to do violence" is more a sign that your side needs to do more to indicate that you're ready to fight back, should the other side choose to abandon the ballot box and take up arms, than it is to insist your opponents should be disarmed in spite of laws that allow them to open carry. If the left really wanted peace, they would keep themselves as prepared for war as the right is.

To the whole thing, I say Huh?
To the last line I say, WTF are you talking about?

570 NoPanacea  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 11:51:22am

Gosh, Oh my goodness. I must do something, about this.

I know of a man who has a bunch of guns and lots of ammunition. He also spends an inordinate amount time in the "woods". He also has maybe two thousand pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer in his shed. Maybe more.

He certainly has more guns than I "feel" he needs.

This guy is obviously a dangerous terrorist and needs to be put behind bars.

He's been giving me this "story" about how he is "just a farmer". But now, I know the real truth.

All those cattle, and fields of corn, and soybeans are just a cover for his terrorist activities.

I have even seen him experimenting with the "dangerous" explosive nitrate fertilizer. Of course, he had some cock and bull story about clearing stumps from his cow pastures.

This guy even hangs around with some other guys who claim they are "just farmers" too.

Janet, oh Janet, Yoohoo Janet baby. I need to talk to you about something.

What the average journalist DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT ANYTHING would fill several...well, actually most of the libraries of the world.

571 ernunnos  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 1:21:19pm

Yes, Charles. I signed up years ago because I knew that this week you'd be posting about a topic I just happen to have some personal knowledge of. As for raving kooks, anyone can listen to what they actually have to say. You'll hear them holding polite, friendly, even funny conversations with not only each other, but with local cops and politicians. Hell, here in the Valley of the Sun even the MSM isn't freaking out. Police officials and our mayor will - and did - go on TV to defend them.

I realize this is all very strange and possibly scary to someone who lives in California, but this isn't California. It's Arizona. We do things a little differently here. And sometimes it's good to remind people of that. It keeps the flow of refugees down.

572 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 2:41:19pm

Gotcha -- 500 pounds of ammonium nitrate, body armor, machine guns, rockets, no big deal. Anti-vaccination, New World Order, 9/11 conspiracy types with better weaponry than the cops ... so what?

I'm just a hyperventilatin' California softie. Why, there's absolutely nothing odd about bringing AR15s to a Presidential rally. You convinced me.

/dripping

573 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 3:07:11pm

re: #571 ernunnos

As for raving kooks, anyone can listen to what they actually have to say. You'll hear them holding polite, friendly, even funny conversations with not only each other, but with local cops and politicians.

I take it you're unfamiliar with the term "the banality of evil"?

Check out these folks, yucking it up and having a grand old time.

My point is not to draw an exact parallel, but to illustrate that just because a group of jovial people can be seen cracking jokes and being friendly with each other, it doesn't make them a bunch of harmless, goodhearted citizens.

574 Lee Coller  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 3:52:58pm

Who's DirtCrashr? Phantom Updinger on the crazies.

575 ernunnos  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 5:10:45pm

re: #573 Slumbering Behemoth

I take it you're unfamiliar with the term "the banality of evil"?


Sure, but I'm not used to hearing it applied to our local cops and politicians and my mayor, who are taking up the other side of that conversation. As I said, if you want to tar these people, you're going to have to use a mighty wide brush. They are fringe, but they're a fringe that has threads going deep into the fabric of Arizona politics, where they've been involved in peaceful activism for quite some time*. There's no panic in the streets of Phoenix.

* Note that none of the people involved in Monday's protests were ever Viper Militia. Ernie did speak in their defense, but as far as I know, he never objected to the weapons charges they were eventually convicted of. He did feel that there was more to the story, and there may well have been. In any case, he ain't them, and neither is anyone else.

576 ernunnos  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 5:20:43pm

re: #572 Charles

Gotcha -- 500 pounds of ammonium nitrate, body armor, machine guns, rockets, no big deal. ... so what?


So that's not anyone who was there on Monday.

Anti-vaccination, New World Order, 9/11 conspiracy types with better weaponry than the cops


Our cops have AR-15s. (Donated by David Spade, incidentally. Little bit of Phoenix trivia for you.) I disagree with all those positions, by the way, but the Second Amendent isn't limited to people who agree with me. And I'm always happy to see that demonstrated. It would have been even better if a couple of Obama supporters had been carrying openly too.


I'm just a hyperventilatin' California softie. Why, there's absolutely nothing odd about bringing AR15s to a Presidential rally. You convinced me.


Of course there's something odd about it. That's the point. It's not a very good demonstration unless there's something memorable about it. They could have all carried concealed (ARs break down into a satchel size pretty easily), and it would have been just as legal, and firearms would have been just as present... but then they wouldn't have gotten the attention.

The attention was the point. They got what they wanted. And in a way, you helped. ;-)

577 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 5:49:07pm

re: #576 ernunnos

I get it. You see some kind of validation of the Second Amendment.

I'm a fan of the Second Amendment too, which may surprise you.

But at the Phoenix rally, I saw a bunch of extremist jackasses with loony ideas, packing high-powered weapons. No responsible gun owner would ever defend this kind of behavior.

Yet, here you are, defending these morons.

And when legislation restricting Second Amendment rights gets passed, there you'll be, complaining about how unjustified it is.

578 ernunnos  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 6:06:49pm

I'm aware of and appreciate your support of the 2nd Amendment. I agree that the theories the 4409ers subscribe to many loony theories, and I won't even dispute you on the "jackasses" thing. I suspect they'd probably take it as a compliment themselves.

But I will defend their behavior, because the Bill of Rights is not reserved for people who comport themselves in a "proper" fashion. Just as the 1st Amendment applies to outrageous displays, as long as they operate within the letter of the law, so does the 2nd. We are, after all, supposed to be a nation of laws, not a nation ruled by shock and outrage and popularity contests.

I see these people as the modern equivalent of Larry Flynt. I don't subscribe to his magazine, I think he's a self-glorifying blowhard who is probably just in it for the attention, but I appreciate what he did for the First Amendment, regardless of his motives and his crudity. I am more free today because of him.

579 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 6:08:21pm

re: #578 ernunnos

When one of them decides it's time to "water the tree of liberty," will you still defend them?

580 ernunnos  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 6:23:34pm

"When?" That presumes that they will.

When I knew Ernie, he was always very clear: "The four boxes of liberty are the soap box, ballot box, jury box, and cartridge box. In that order." From what I've seen of the 4409 Youtube page, they seem to be making full use of that soap box, with racks of DVD burners and reasonably high production values. Now they're social engineering the global media with provocative demonstrations. It certainly was no mistake that a black man was carrying that AR-15. According to the interview, they also called ahead for a police liaison. It was all carefully planned.

I'm sure they'll make just as much use of the ballot box and jury box. The only way I can see them moving beyond that to the cartridge box would be if those are removed as options.

If that happens, we'll be living in a much different America, one that I can hardly even imagine. (And I don't think will ever exist in my lifetime.) In such a hypothetical future, I'd be too worried about the emigration process to bother defending them.

581 ernunnos  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 6:31:02pm

And just to be crystal clear, if they use the boxes out of order, I will definitely not defend them. We have a process for regular, peaceful revolutions in this country known as "elections", and as long as that remains available, I see no reason or justification for the other kind.

582 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 6:56:27pm

re: #174 Sharmuta

This is just stunning considering the history in this country of violent, extreme right-wing thugs that anyone would makes excuses for this. Tell the folks in Oklahoma City these people aren't a threat. Pathetic- everything else is a threat except people who actually stockpile weapons and explosives. No way would any of you say this wasn't threatening if it was islamists. I find many of you to be engaging in intellectual dishonesty- because for whatever reason, there's never anything wrong with the right. Ever.

Absolutely right.
What the hell is going on?
To some , it's like any admission that this is not right, is a sign of weakness, or of"going wobbly".
I just don't see the future as that bleak that we need to be wearing guns to town meetings.
I mean, did I miss the Apocalypse while I was in a bar or something? 'cause from where I stand, the sky ain't burning.

583 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 7:19:17pm

re: #581 ernunnos

And just to be crystal clear, if they use the boxes out of order, I will definitely not defend them. We have a process for regular, peaceful revolutions in this country known as "elections", and as long as that remains available, I see no reason or justification for the other kind.

No you wouldn't. You just find another line of rationalization to make yourself comfortable, and blame everyone else for the problems.
I know this is a dead thread, but you sir, personally exemplify the kind of thinking that concerns many on this site.

I'm going to predict you response: "You don't know me, and you can't know how I'd react".

But look at the bold. You think someone is justified in using violence because "as long as that remains available" is to many in your camp, that is a subjective situation.
The birther issue gets to the heart of the matter: Obama is a usurper.
And it's a simple step to side with those who think that box 1 and 2 were rigged.
And hey, we all know that the judiciary is packed with liberal judges that want to bring down the country.
So, I call bullshit on you sir.
What you espouse is proto Anarchism, pure and simple, American style.
You'll burn our right over a mesquite grill faster than a New York commie any day.
I am afraid of people that think like you. and I think that's the point.
But I'm not so afraid to take sides.
And I'm against you, and your kind, and frankly, I don't give a rats ass if they joke with the local bigwigs, they still suck.

584 ernunnos  Fri, Aug 21, 2009 7:50:09am

re: #583 doubter4444

If you know what other people think better than they do themselves, and can carry on an argument without them, you might want to invest in a BlueTooth headset. That way people will think you're on the phone, and not just another crazy person arguing with the voices in his own head.


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