Sanford’s Private Planes

Politics • Views: 1,866

Philandering creationist GOP governor Mark Sanford is in more hot water.

Mark Sanford may have more trouble on his hands. An Associated Press investigation shows the South Carolina Governor took dozens of flights on private planes that he didn’t report despite a state law requiring him to disclose who paid for the travel.

The AP says it discovered 35 flights Sanford took on private planes that he did not disclose on ethics or campaign reports. The flights are noted on calendars obtained through a public records request, the news agency says.

The AP further reports that Sanford’s staff says he didn’t report the flights because longtime friends or political groups paid for them. But state ethics officials say Sanford must report his use of private planes even if friends pay, the AP reports.

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302 comments
1 debutaunt  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 10:52:43am

No rules for special people.

2 The Other Les  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 10:53:11am

I've said it before. He needs to resign.

Right f***ing now!

3 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 10:53:26am

I guess the "my friend gave me a ride" excuse won't fly here.

4 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 10:53:50am
But state ethics officials say Sanford must report his use of private planes even if friends pay, the AP reports.

I think political ethics investigators have some of the most secure jobs on the planet.

5 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 10:53:54am

All aboard the booty plane!

6 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 10:54:19am

Go away Sanford. Just. Go. Away.

7 Racer X  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 10:55:08am

I've seen *pictures* of his girlfriend on the internets.

8 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 10:55:09am

The Right has met their John Edwards, and his name is Mark Sanford.

9 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 10:56:43am

Who were these friends and groups?

10 brookly red  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 10:57:04am

re: #2 The Other Les

I've said it before. He needs to resign.

Right f***ing now!


He is an R so most likley he will have to.

11 The Other Les  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 10:57:07am

re: #5 Killgore Trout

All aboard the booty plane!

Party on!

12 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 10:57:12am

re: #8 Sharmuta

I think Edwards was worse only because he was still running in the primaries. If he'd gotten the nomination it would have been a big headache for the Dems.

13 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 10:57:29am
14 debutaunt  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 10:57:33am

re: #9 MandyManners

Who were these friends and groups?

People with very open marriages.

15 debutaunt  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 10:59:05am

re: #14 debutaunt

People with very open sorry marriages.

16 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:00:14am
An Associated Press investigation shows the South Carolina Governor took dozens of flights on private planes

It looks as though he flew Kamikaze Airlines.

17 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:00:20am

Damn Sanford - you need a (D) behind your name - then this would all be cool.

18 Bob Dillon  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:00:43am

The clinging to power arrogance of many of our elected officials validates that they have become absolutely corrupted. Here is a prime ongoing example.

19 Lincolntf  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:01:38am

Our ex-Governor here in NC got busted in a similar case. In one instance he actually specifically requested a "Nascar plane" to fly him to an event. This is the South, so Nascar is politically/economically important and does plenty of business with the State. Still, it struck me as funny that the guy didn't want just any plane for his free flight, he wanted the populist one.
Fortunately, he's long gone and the investigations into he and his wife are ongoing on both the State and Fed level.

20 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:01:46am

re: #15 debutaunt

The article did not state that whoring around was the purpose of these flights.

21 Bobblehead  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:01:58am

re: #17 FrogMarch

Damn Sanford - you need a (D) behind your name - then this would all be cool.

That has been my thought since this nonsense started.

22 marwan's daughter  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:02:10am

re: #12 Killgore Trout

I think Edwards was worse only because he was still running in the primaries. If he'd gotten the nomination it would have been a big headache for the Dems.

He was also worse because of his possible love child with Ms. Hunter.

23 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:02:37am

Do they still dress penitentiary inmates in pinstripes?
Will Sanford get his choice of shirt and tie?

/cooked goose

24 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:02:45am

re: #22 marwan's daughter

He was also worse because of his possible love child with Ms. Hunter.

I think we can drop the "possible".

25 avanti  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:02:49am

O.T. ,but timely. Fox is doing a "death book show" as we speak.

26 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:03:03am

re: #17 FrogMarch

Damn Sanford - you need a (D) behind your name - then this would all be cool.

Didn't seem to help Eliot Spitzer.

27 Lincolntf  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:03:12am

re: #22 marwan's daughter

Didn't he recently acknowledge that the kid is his? I thought I heard a snippet about that on one of the News shows a while back.

28 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:04:01am

C'mon Mark! There's gotta be a morals sermon in here somewhere!

29 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:04:05am

re: #24 MandyManners

re: #22 marwan's daughter

He was also worse because of his possible love child with Ms. Hunter.

I think we can drop the "possible".

I think we can drop the "love".

30 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:04:10am

re: #26 Charles

Didn't seem to help Eliot Spitzer.

Nor did it help Edwards.

31 marwan's daughter  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:04:30am

re: #24 MandyManners

I think we can drop the "possible".

Diana Ross-Love Child

Youtube Video
32 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:05:18am

re: #30 MandyManners

Nor did it help Edwards.

Or Gary Hart.

33 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:05:20am

re: #29 solomonpanting

I think we can drop the "love".

"Love child" is the polite term for "illegitimate child". Personally, I think the status of the parents' relationship should not be used to label the child.

34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:05:27am

re: #30 MandyManners

Helped him for a while though...IIRC.

35 Bobblehead  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:06:02am

re: #30 MandyManners

Nor did it help Edwards.

Didn't hurt any of the Kennedys.

36 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:06:04am

This "death book" garbage is giving me another huge headache.

With all the valid criticisms you can make of nationalized health care, the best the GOP can do is ... lie?

37 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:06:19am

We need to reprise Iowahawk's column of a few weeks ago, about Congressmen being discouraged that the public was no longer serving them.

38 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:06:31am

re: #33 MandyManners

"Love child" is the polite term for "illegitimate child".

Yes, I know. I was merely expanding upon your theme.

39 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:06:48am

Love child.


Youtube Video
40 Bob Dillon  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:06:52am

re: #26 Charles

Didn't seem to help Eliot Spitzer.

"A man's got to know his limitations"

41 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:07:52am

re: #32 Sharmuta

Or Gary Hart.

A large reason he got caught is that he challenged the MFM to follow him. He was arrogant beyond belief.

Hmmm..so are Edwards, Sanford and Spitzer.

42 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:08:17am

re: #36 Charles

Thank god the Blue Dogs are rational...
U.S. Rep. Silvestre Reyes wants health-care plan to be 'revenue neutral'

They are our only hope for reasonable opposition.

43 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:08:29am

re: #34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Helped him for a while though...IIRC.

Whatever goes over the sow's back comes under her belly.

44 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:08:58am

re: #35 Bobblehead

Didn't hurt any of the Kennedys.

They have a huge cottage industry protecting them.

45 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:09:18am

re: #38 solomonpanting

Yes, I know. I was merely expanding upon your theme.

I meant to post No 39 to you.

46 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:09:19am

re: #43 MandyManners

Mr. Rather?

47 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:09:33am

"America has no native criminal class, with the possible exception of Congress politicians."

/quoting Mark Twain freely

48 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:09:33am

I also don't know why it would be "cool" if this was a democrat. If we're going to demand ethics for our elected officials, the standard should apply equally.

49 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:09:48am

re: #46 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Mr. Rather?

My nanny.

50 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:10:05am

The Republican Party is damaging itself enormously with these "death" scare tactics.

51 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:10:07am
52 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:10:17am

re: #26 Charles

Didn't seem to help Eliot Spitzer.

The media couldn't hide Spitzer. However, IIRC, that story was moved off the front burner really quickly. and now Spitzer is almost fully rehabilitated.
I'm not making excuses for Sandford - the guy seems like a jerk who abused his power and cheated on his wife. Still, when it comes to scandals - the D's always seem to have an easier time.

53 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:10:39am

Y'know, maybe I'm just a degenerate, but as ethics violations go taking a free airplane ride doesn't really make my blood boil.

I'm just old enough that I recall when they put in the "straight arrow" regulations between aerospace engineers and supplier salesmen. Sure, there was some outright bribery going on, but that was never legal, and we (I was generally on the sales side) couldn't even buy engineers lunch anymore, and that was half the fun of my job! I mean, did these regulation make it illegal for the first time to send the engineering manager a hooker and pay for his night out? No, but now it was a federal crime - for the recipient!

Just sayin.

54 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:10:51am

re: #44 MandyManners

re: #35 Bobblehead

Didn't hurt any of the Kennedys.

They have a huge cottage industry protecting them.

This industry dates back at least to the (Marilyn) Monroe Doctrine.

55 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:11:11am

re: #42 Killgore Trout

Puul Ryans (R) plan called for revenue neutrality with NO decrease in Medicare funds

56 brookly red  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:11:27am

/btw, what ever happened to that nice man with all that money in his freezer?

57 Danny  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:11:53am

My riding mower's broke and I'm all sweaty from cutting the grass with a damn push mower. Just had to get that off my chest.

58 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:12:08am

re: #51 buzzsawmonkey

Big upding. And, as always, I invite people to consider the social devolution reflected by a song against illegitimacy being a hit 40 years ago, and the celebration of illegitimacy reflected nowadays in hits such as "Baby Mama."

So much for the popular ... culture (sic).

59 Bob Dillon  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:12:21am

re: #41 MandyManners

A large reason he got caught is that he challenged the MFM to follow him. He was arrogant beyond belief.

Hmmm..so are Edwards, Sanford and Spitzer.

Kind of reminds me of Wilbur Mills and Fanne Fox back in the early 70s and the great Tidal Basin caper. I was in SE Asia then and it even made news there.

60 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:12:22am
61 Bobblehead  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:12:23am

I realize human nature is what it is but I get so sick of reading these stories about men in public office(both sides of the aisle) who cannot keep their pants zipped up. These men are arrogant SOBs who give not one iota of thought to anyone but themselves.

62 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:12:29am

Looks like Gov. Sanford has a lot of "'splainin" to do Lucy.

-S-

63 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:12:34am

re: #44 MandyManners

They have a huge cottage industry protecting them.

I've seen their compound on Cape Cod ,,,

a "HUGE COTTAGE" is an understatement !!

//

64 avanti  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:12:34am

re: #36 Charles

This "death book" garbage is giving me another huge headache.

With all the valid criticisms you can make of nationalized health care, the best the GOP can do is ... lie?

Charles, they do it because it works. They killed paid end of life counseling in the health bill, and may kill the VA booklet. They also score political points with the lie. Both side have done it, but the GOP has become masters at it. The far left lied, but the leadership did not jump in like the GOP has with death panels, nirthers and the rest IMHO.

65 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:12:45am

re: #56 brookly red

/btw, what ever happened to that nice man with all that money in his freezer?

[Link: news.google.com...]

66 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:13:13am

re: #56 brookly red

/btw, what ever happened to that nice man with all that money in his freezer?


Heh.

67 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:13:16am

re: #51 buzzsawmonkey

Big upding. And, as always, I invite people to consider the social devolution reflected by a song against illegitimacy being a hit 40 years ago, and the celebration of illegitimacy reflected nowadays in hits such as "Baby Mama."

Some would say we've lost our mooring.

68 brookly red  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:13:59am

re: #65 Sharmuta

thanks, I was wondering about him.

69 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:14:14am

re: #55 sattv4u2

Good, then maybe he can work with the dems for some sort of comprimise.

70 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:14:32am

re: #53 itellu3times

Y'know, maybe I'm just a degenerate, but as ethics violations go taking a free airplane ride doesn't really make my blood boil.
I'm just old enough that I recall when they put in the "straight arrow" regulations between aerospace engineers and supplier salesmen. Sure, there was some outright bribery going on, but that was never legal, and we (I was generally on the sales side) couldn't even buy engineers lunch anymore, and that was half the fun of my job! I mean, did these regulation make it illegal for the first time to send the engineering manager a hooker and pay for his night out? No, but now it was a federal crime - for the recipient!

Just sayin.

You have no serious concerns with an elected official hiding those who do him favors, who curry his affections?

71 Danny  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:14:38am

My theory on the political hyperbole and BS, whether from dems or 'pubs...they want to rouse the rabble, and the rabble reacts to exaggeration. Big time.

72 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:14:52am

re: #54 solomonpanting

This industry dates back at least to the (Marilyn) Monroe Doctrine.

*rimshot*

73 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:15:00am

re: #64 avanti

yup.

74 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:15:09am

re: #69 Killgore Trout

Good, then maybe he can work with the dems for some sort of comprimise.

The committee wouldn't even consider his proposal or any part of it

So much for 'working with"

75 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:15:16am

There are way Tammany corrupt politicians running around loose!

76 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:15:54am
77 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:15:59am

re: #59 Bobibutu

Kind of reminds me of Wilbur Mills and Fanne Fox back in the early 70s and the great Tidal Basin caper. I was in SE Asia then and it even made news there.

I vaguely remember those but I was a child. I wonder where they are now.

78 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:16:48am

re: #77 MandyManners

I vaguely remember those but I was a child. I wonder where they are now.

Well ,, in that Mills was about 120 years old back in the 70's ,,,

79 Silvergirl  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:16:57am

re: #57 Danny

My riding mower's broke and I'm all sweaty from cutting the grass with a damn push mower. Just had to get that off my chest.

Those chest hairs can be harsh on a push mower. And vice versa.

80 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:17:30am

re: #76 buzzsawmonkey

Uncurried, affections get so shaggy, and pick up a lot of burrs.

Well, in this case, it seems shagging was a large factor.

81 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:17:46am

re: #75 pre-Boomer Marine brat

There are way Tammany corrupt politicians running around loose!

Someone might just Hall off and smack them.

82 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:18:02am

re: #67 MandyManners

Some would say we've lost our mooring.

How to get an "A"
on your Scarlet Letter assignment

83 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:18:07am

{yawn}

Federer wins another tournament!

84 Lincolntf  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:18:58am

re: #74 sattv4u2

If anyone in the Dem Party really wanted to get anything done, they'd style a program that would help the small percentage of Americans without coverage. The 2.5% penalty as well as the "no change" conditions on existing policies are proof-positive that the real goal is to pull everyone into their Gov't health care mess.
Someone walks into the hospital without coverage, enroll THEM in a plan. Not me.

85 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:19:03am

re: #76 buzzsawmonkey

Uncurried, affections get so shaggy, and pick up a lot of burrs.

And their owners get ticked.

/ but too few get caught and have to flea

86 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:19:12am

re: #51 buzzsawmonkey

Big upding. And, as always, I invite people to consider the social devolution reflected by a song against illegitimacy being a hit 40 years ago, and the celebration of illegitimacy reflected nowadays in hits such as "Baby Mama."

That's because now our government subsidizes it. What I've come to see is that most "social issues" the right is concerned with actually come down to funding and where the line is drawn for the role and scope of the federal government.

87 Bobblehead  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:19:43am

re: #79 Silvergirl

Those chest hairs can be harsh on a push mower. And vice versa.

re: #80 MandyManners

Well, in this case, it seems shagging was a large factor.



Chest hairs and shagging. I think we have a candidate for a new rotating title.

88 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:19:51am

re: #82 itellu3times

How to get an "A"
on your Scarlet Letter assignment

Pass me the smelling salts!

*fans self*

How OLD are those students who couldn't understand that book?

89 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:20:10am

re: #81 solomonpanting

Someone might just Hall off and smack them.

On a Dailey basis too!

90 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:21:13am
91 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:21:18am

re: #70 MandyManners

You have no serious concerns with an elected official hiding those who do him favors, who curry his affections?

There's generally a dollar limit stated below which it's just TMI. For aerospace engineers I think it's about five dollars - you can still buy them a donut -or- a latte, but probably not both.

For a governor, I might just put that limit up a bit higher and even exempt transport, period. Give him free airplane rides to Argentina, see if I care.

92 The Shadow Do  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:21:33am

re: #64 avanti

Charles, they do it because it works. They killed paid end of life counseling in the health bill, and may kill the VA booklet. They also score political points with the lie. Both side have done it, but the GOP has become masters at it. The far left lied, but the leadership did not jump in like the GOP has with death panels, nirthers and the rest IMHO.

Bush lied people died!
"He betrayed our country!!!"

What a load Avanti

93 kynna  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:22:34am
The AP further reports that Sanford’s staff says he didn’t report the flights because longtime friends or political groups paid for them. But state ethics officials say Sanford must report his use of private planes even if friends pay, the AP reports.


That doesn't seem like the kind of circumstance that merits NOT reporting.

Sanford's gotta go.

94 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:22:43am

re: #89 pre-Boomer Marine brat

On a Dailey basis too!

They all wear the finest Tweeds.

95 Lincolntf  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:23:12am

re: #91 itellu3times

The problem (at least in NC) is that the corporations who are doing all these extremely expensive favors for the Governor are also the corporations asking the State for various tax-breaks, etc.

96 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:23:16am

re: #64 avanti

Charles, they do it because it works. They killed paid end of life counseling in the health bill, and may kill the VA booklet. They also score political points with the lie. Both side have done it, but the GOP has become masters at it. The far left lied, but the leadership did not jump in like the GOP has with death panels, nirthers and the rest IMHO.

El Presidente is lying like a rug about the ability to keep your current insurance.

97 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:23:41am
98 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:23:52am

re: #95 Lincolntf

The problem (at least in NC) is that the corporations who are doing all these extremely expensive favors for the Governor are also the corporations asking the State for various tax-breaks, etc.

OK, I'm shocked, shocked, to find corporations asking for tax breaks.

99 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:23:59am

re: #94 solomonpanting

They all wear the finest Tweeds.

up-ding (along with a *barf*)

You da' Boss!

100 NukeAtomrod  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:24:20am

Here's the "Veteran's Death Book" as their calling it. Read it yourself and make your own decision about it.

Your Life, Your Choices. - It's a pdf file. May load slowly.

101 Bob Dillon  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:25:02am

re: #77 MandyManners

I vaguely remember those but I was a child. I wonder where they are now.

Last I heard Fox went back to Argentina - Wills passed on in 92.

102 SurferDoc  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:25:15am

re: #96 itellu3times

El Presidente is lying like a rug about the ability to keep your current insurance.

..and he is lying about it not funding abortions and he is probably lying about not including illegals.

103 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:25:20am

re: #96 itellu3times

El Presidente is lying like a rug about the ability to keep your current insurance.

Well, according to the current proposals in HB 3200, you can keep it, but if it doesn't past muster, you and or your employer will be taxed. If you don't have any insurance, you will be taxed... see my dead thread comment...

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

104 Gella  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:25:34am

hypocrisy at its best

105 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:26:18am

BTW, wearing my official Roger Staubach #12 throwback jersey today for the first time this year.

106 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:26:18am

re: #103 Walter L. Newton

Well, according to the current proposals in HB 3200, you can keep it, but if it doesn't past muster, you and or your employer will be taxed. If you don't have any insurance, you will be taxed... see my dead thread comment...

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

It's what you call a half-truth. The net effect is that a year out, nobody will have their old insurance.

107 brookly red  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:27:04am

re: #98 itellu3times

OK, I'm shocked, shocked, to find corporations asking for tax breaks.

If buisness ever gets it act together a organizes to oppose taxes... well it would be interesting :)

108 Bobblehead  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:27:11am

re: #105 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

BTW, wearing my official Roger Staubach #12 throwback jersey today for the first time this year.

Football, football, football. Thank God for football!

109 Bob Dillon  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:27:35am

re: #96 itellu3times

El Presidente is lying like a rug about the ability to keep your current insurance.

What! Our President - with the most open administration in the history of our Republic lying to us. Oh nooes, please tell me it ain't so.

110 Gella  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:27:37am

Obama Ramadan Message

Youtube Video
111 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:28:20am
112 opnion  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:28:49am

re: #106 itellu3times

It's what you call a half-truth. The net effect is that a year out, nobody will have their old insurance.

If your employer goes for the Public Option because of reduced subsidized premiums, you can't keep your current coverage.

114 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:29:31am
115 Lincolntf  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:30:12am

re: #98 itellu3times

You don't have to be shocked to recognize corruption when you see it. Do you think the company who flies the Governor around the State might get a tax-break over a far more deserving company that didn't fly him around? I do.
The FBI found it intersting enough to subpoena all of his travel records and the U.S. Attorney is preparing (supposedly) to make a decision as to what he'll do.

116 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:30:33am

Sanford is associated with the exceedlingly influential, secretive, and creepy political/religious movement known as the Family ( aka Fellowship Foundation, International Foundation, Fellowship Ministries, Washington Fellowship, Fellowship House, C Street Center, and Wilberforce Foundation). These are the weirdos who run the now infamous C-Street house, among many other things.

117 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:31:29am
118 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:31:30am

re: #106 itellu3times

It's what you call a half-truth. The net effect is that a year out, nobody will have their old insurance.

If these kinds of proposals become law, your right. They will be able to decide what is proper coverage, and then using the power of the IRS,tax the employers to death, the employers will just opt out, tell employees to get their own, if you don't, more taxes, this time you will be taxed, eventually, you take the public option.

Very possible.

119 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:31:32am

re: #100 NukeAtomrod

Here's the "Veteran's Death Book" as their calling it. Read it yourself and make your own decision about it.

Your Life, Your Choices. - It's a pdf file. May load slowly.

Wow. That's what the right wing blogs are calling a "death book?"

Wow. Just. Freaking. Wow.

This tactic just reeks of desperation.

120 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:31:43am

re: #97 buzzsawmonkey

A factor, certainly--but what people choose to celebrate in their music cannot, I think, be laid to the presence or absence of federal government subsidies.

Why not? This trend started generations ago so now it's completely mainstream and acceptable that no one thinks twice about the government funding the complete delegitimization of fatherhood. LBJ didn't create a great society because there is no solution to poverty. We shall always have it- subsidizing it has created more of it, where as the best we can hope for is to keep it minimized. How the government spends its money and where does have an impact on society over time and sometimes sooner rather than later.

121 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:31:53am

re: #112 opnion

If your employer goes for the Public Option because of reduced subsidized premiums, you can't keep your current coverage.

There ain't no way on God's green Earth that any insurance company will be able to run their actuarial numbers and compete with the government plans.

They may stay in business, but it will be with 100% new plans.

Now, actually, that may not be a tragedy at all, but it is still not what Obamaramaharekrisna is telling us.

122 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:32:11am

re: #116 shiplord kirel

Sanford is associated with the exceedlingly influential, secretive, and creepy political/religious movement known as the Family ( aka Fellowship Foundation, International Foundation, Fellowship Ministries, Washington Fellowship, Fellowship House, C Street Center, and Wilberforce Foundation). These are the weirdos who run the now infamous C-Street house, among many other things.

I wonder if it or its members provided any of the planes.

123 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:32:37am

re: #119 Charles

Heard about it the other day. Bush put the kabosh on it, and has been resurrected by 0bama.

124 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:32:58am

re: #17 FrogMarch

Damn Sanford - you need a (D) behind your name - then this would all be cool.

Of course, because Eliot Spitzer is still in office...

///

125 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:33:19am

re: #100 NukeAtomrod

Thanks for that. I'm on page 15 and I don't see a problem so far.

126 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:33:38am

IMHO, it's not just about Sanford.

That someone like him can pass the public scrutiny inevitable in getting elected is a condemnation of a majority of South Carolina's electorate.

127 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:33:40am

re: #105 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

BTW, wearing my official Roger Staubach #12 throwback jersey today for the first time this year.

Let us know when you wear your Dallas CowGirls Cheerleaders Throwback Tube Top,, K??

128 avanti  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:33:43am

re: #96 itellu3times

El Presidente is lying like a rug about the ability to keep your current insurance.

There is nothing in any of the bills that suggests that.

129 kynna  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:34:21am

re: #106 itellu3times

It's what you call a half-truth. The net effect is that a year out, nobody will have their old insurance.

Um -- I don't think you're supposed to follow the logical steps to discerning the ultimate result. What you're stating is not stated anywhere in the bill. Live in the here and now. Don't think about what will happen tomorrow or a year from now or ten years from now. Think about today.

Want a ham sandwich? The govt can get you some ham for it. Wouldn't you like that?

///

130 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:34:24am
131 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:34:50am

re: #115 Lincolntf

You don't have to be shocked to recognize corruption when you see it. Do you think the company who flies the Governor around the State might get a tax-break over a far more deserving company that didn't fly him around? I do.
The FBI found it intersting enough to subpoena all of his travel records and the U.S. Attorney is preparing (supposedly) to make a decision as to what he'll do.

See #113

132 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:35:09am

re: #119 Charles

Wow. That's what the right wing blogs are calling a "death book?"

Wow. Just. Freaking. Wow.

This tactic just reeks of desperation.

It's a lie. In that case, the bible is a death book. The bible has all sorts of advice on how to plan for the end. LOL. (well, not really funny, a fact, huh?)

133 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:35:12am

re: #51 buzzsawmonkey

Big upding. And, as always, I invite people to consider the social devolution reflected by a song against illegitimacy being a hit 40 years ago, and the celebration of illegitimacy reflected nowadays in hits such as "Baby Mama."

I would also add the devolution of music reflected by those two songs...

134 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:35:37am

re: #116 shiplord kirel

Sanford is associated with the exceedlingly influential, secretive, and creepy political/religious movement known as the Family ( aka Fellowship Foundation, International Foundation, Fellowship Ministries, Washington Fellowship, Fellowship House, C Street Center, and Wilberforce Foundation). These are the weirdos who run the now infamous C-Street house, among many other things.

Included among the Family's key supporters are billionaire Paul N. Temple, a former executive of Esso (Exxon) and the founder of the Institute of Noetic Sciences

Isn't that Van Jones' group?

135 opnion  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:35:39am

re: #117 buzzsawmonkey

It seems like the worst of both worlds, does it not?

If I understand this correctly, you can keep your current insurance from your employer if you want, but if that insurance does not meet federally-set (and, of course, -controlled) criteria, that insurance will be taxed, which creates an incentive for the employer to drop it and embrace the public option--at which point, of course, you can't keep what you had originally.

Can anyone say "wired roulette wheel?"

Heres the question, would you have to pay inflated COBRA fees?
Would you even qualify, since you are eligible for the Public Option plan?
Would the Governmentr force the old carrier to let you stay at Group Rates & will your employer have to make the same contributions?
Obama is running a scam.

136 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:36:34am
137 avanti  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:37:23am

re: #119 Charles

Wow. That's what the right wing blogs are calling a "death book?"

Wow. Just. Freaking. Wow.

This tactic just reeks of desperation.

Yes, but it will work. how many more will accept the talking heads on Fox, or Palin's version and not bother to read the booklet ? The booklet will be neutered for political expediency, and the Vets will lose in the process.

138 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:37:49am

re: #126 pre-Boomer Marine brat

IMHO, it's not just about Sanford.

That someone like him can pass the public scrutiny inevitable in getting elected is a condemnation of a majority of South Carolina's electorate.

That might be a tad harsh. If decent people don't join the political party of their choice and run for office, we're left with less than savory politicos to promote to office. It's a bit of a stain all around. Problem is- most good people don't want to put themselves up to get poo flung at them. What a mess.

139 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:38:40am

re: #134 MandyManners

Included among the Family's key supporters are billionaire Paul N. Temple, a former executive of Esso (Exxon) and the founder of the Institute of Noetic Sciences

Isn't that Van Jones' group?

Yep.

140 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:38:55am

re: #122 MandyManners

I wonder if it or its members provided any of the planes.

Pretty likely. Herer are some hair-raising bites about long-time Family leader Doug Coe:

The Family represents "Jesus plus nothing," as its leader, Doug Coe, puts it.[6] At the heart of the Family's spiritual advice for its proxies in Congress is the conviction that the market's invisible hand represents the guidance of God, and that God wants his "new chosen" to look out for one another.[6]

Fellowship leader Doug Coe urges a personal commitment to Jesus Christ that he compares to the blind devotion that Adolf Hitler demanded from his followers.[11] "Hitler, Goebbels and Himmler were three men. Think of the immense power these three men had, these nobodies from nowhere," Coe said in one videotaped 1989 sermon. "Jesus said, ‘You have to put me before other people. And you have to put me before yourself.' Hitler, that was the demand to be in the Nazi party. You have to put the Nazi party and its objectives ahead of your own life and ahead of other people."[11]

The belief that Christian politicians are chosen by God and can therefore do no wrong is central to the Family's ideology, as author Jeff Sharlet explains in this interview with Bill Maher.

141 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:39:01am

re: #61 Bobblehead

I realize human nature is what it is but I get so sick of reading these stories about men in public office(both sides of the aisle) who cannot keep their pants zipped up. These men are arrogant SOBs who give not one iota of thought to anyone but themselves.

Isn't this the guy who slept in his office so as not to waste the taxpayer's money? I can't help but wonder if that wasn't a bad sign. If you don't have a distinction between 'mine' and 'job', it probably becomes hard to figure out the difference between public and private.

142 wahabicorridor  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:39:32am

re: #100 NukeAtomrod

Here's the "Veteran's Death Book" as their calling it. Read it yourself and make your own decision about it.

Your Life, Your Choices. - It's a pdf file. May load slowly.


Ok, I've run thru the entire booklet LOOKING FOR A PROBLEM

Ain't there. As a matter of fact, I think it would be of great use to many families.

143 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:40:27am

re: #61 Bobblehead

I realize human nature is what it is but I get so sick of reading these stories about men in public office(both sides of the aisle) who cannot keep their pants zipped up. These men are arrogant SOBs who give not one iota of thought to anyone but themselves.

That's why the high school guidance counselor told him to get into politics.
/

144 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:40:29am

re: #134 MandyManners

Included among the Family's key supporters are billionaire Paul N. Temple, a former executive of Esso (Exxon) and the founder of the Institute of Noetic Sciences

Isn't that Van Jones' group?

It is indeed. We may have a glimpse here of a kind of theocratic red/brown alliance.

145 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:40:36am

re: #139 Walter L. Newton

Yep.

That link is amazing.

146 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:40:37am

re: #137 avanti

It's kinda like the DHS memo. Once the seed was planted certain people couldn't read what was actually in the memo, all they could see was what they were told was in there by Glenn Beck and Michelle Malkin.

147 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:41:05am

re: #92 The Shadow Do

Bush lied people died!
"He betrayed our country!!!"

What a load Avanti

Whom are you quoting there?

148 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:41:15am
149 jim in virginia  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:41:29am

re: #127 sattv4u2

Let us know when you wear your Dallas CowGirls Cheerleaders Throwback Tube Top,, K??

Unbelievably disgusting mental image.
On topic- Sanford has turned into the poster boy for "Lost Moral Compass."

150 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:41:53am

re: #138 Sharmuta

That might be a tad harsh. If decent people don't join the political party of their choice and run for office, we're left with less than savory politicos to promote to office. It's a bit of a stain all around. Problem is- most good people don't want to put themselves up to get poo flung at them. What a mess.

*urp* ... You're right

I was once on a non-partisan board. Someone suggested I run for office in the County gov't. My reply (contain various epithets) was based up the reason you state.

151 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:41:55am
152 Lincolntf  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:42:42am

re: #151 taxfreekiller

Obama.
He won.

153 avanti  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:43:23am

re: #132 Walter L. Newton

It's a lie. In that case, the bible is a death book. The bible has all sorts of advice on how to plan for the end. LOL. (well, not really funny, a fact, huh?)

I just did a google to that very subject and found this in the Bible's version of a death book from a pro life web site:

"Is it Acceptable for a Christian Who Is Terminally Ill to Refuse Available Technology in Order to Let Nature Take its Course and Bring About a Natural Death?
Yes.

"There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven—a time to give birth, and a time to die."
Ecclesiastes 3:1-2, NASB

"Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of His godly ones."
Psalm 116:15, NASB

"And in your book were all written the days that were ordained for me."
Psalm 139:16, NASB

154 itellu3times  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:43:42am

re: #151 taxfreekiller

Poll.

Better liar.

John F. Kerry.

B. Obama.

I think Bubba retired the trophy.

155 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:43:56am

re: #140 shiplord kirel

The belief that Christian politicians are chosen by God and can therefore do no wrong is central to the Family's ideology, as author Jeff Sharlet explains in this interview with Bill Maher.

What about their associations with IARA and tyrants? How is supporting Gulbuddin Hekmatyar doing God's work?

156 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:44:13am

re: #120 Sharmuta

Why not? This trend started generations ago so now it's completely mainstream and acceptable that no one thinks twice about the government funding the complete delegitimization of fatherhood. LBJ didn't create a great society because there is no solution to poverty. We shall always have it- subsidizing it has created more of it, where as the best we can hope for is to keep it minimized. How the government spends its money and where does have an impact on society over time and sometimes sooner rather than later.

Here's the problem with that

The Government has NO money. That is why it's reasonable for "We The People" to scrutinize what they intend to do with it and REASONABLY criticize PRIOR to them spending it

157 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:44:33am

re: #144 shiplord kirel

It is indeed. We may have a glimpse here of a kind of theocratic red/brown alliance.

I'm sitting here just shaking my head.

158 JarHeadLifer  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:44:33am

I wonder how many stories the AP has run on John Edwards looming possible indictment on campaign finance fraud stemming from illegal payments to his "baby's mama", funneled through multimillionaire, fat-cat campaign contributors. Just saying.

159 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:44:35am

I'm starting to detect a pattern here on the Death Panel and Veteran's Death Book. Does this tie in with Terry Schiavo? I think this might have to do with the fact that the religious right wants to make the decisions about end of life matters instead of the individuals themselves or their doctors.
/just a thought.

160 Gus  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:45:03am

re: #159 Killgore Trout

I'm starting to detect a pattern here on the Death Panel and Veteran's Death Book. Does this tie in with Terry Schiavo? I think this might have to do with the fact that the religious right wants to make the decisions about end of life matters instead of the individuals themselves or their doctors.
/just a thought.

Yes

161 Flyovercountry  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:45:09am

I hope this report isn't true. I can't help being skeptical of anything reported br AP. Still, Governor Sanford should do whatever he does, quietly. He is somewhat hypochritical, as a conservative creationist who has at least violated his wedding vows, and the citizen's trust in him.

162 Coracle  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:45:24am

re: #159 Killgore Trout

I'm starting to detect a pattern here on the Death Panel and Veteran's Death Book. Does this tie in with Terry Schiavo? I think this might have to do with the fact that the religious right wants to make the decisions about end of life matters instead of the individuals themselves or their doctors.
/just a thought.

And start of life.

163 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:45:47am

re: #160 Gus 802

Huh, I guess I'm a little slow to figure that out.

164 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:47:19am

re: #153 avanti

I just did a google to that very subject and found this in the Bible's version of a death book from a pro life web site:

"Is it Acceptable for a Christian Who Is Terminally Ill to Refuse Available Technology in Order to Let Nature Take its Course and Bring About a Natural Death?
Yes.

"There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven—a time to give birth, and a time to die."
Ecclesiastes 3:1-2, NASB

"Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of His godly ones."
Psalm 116:15, NASB

"And in your book were all written the days that were ordained for me."
Psalm 139:16, NASB

Nice catch Avanti (I'll take a shower later :)

But that was my point. I have TONS of problems with the health care proposals that are floating around, and I also have my opinion on some of what I read but may not totally understand yet, but, the hyperbole coming from a segment of conservatives is pure propaganda and lies.

Hell, you can get "death counseling" from your grandmother, pastor, good friends, so, putting it in a book is what, a problem?

165 The Shadow Do  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:47:24am

re: #128 avanti

There is nothing in any of the bills that suggests that.

Obtuse is not becoming on you..

166 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:47:34am

re: #161 Flyovercountry

I hope this report isn't true. I can't help being skeptical of anything reported br AP. Still, Governor Sanford should do whatever he does, quietly. He is somewhat hypochritical, as a conservative creationist who has at least violated his wedding vows, and the citizen's trust in him.

The AP used the governor's calendars, probably obtained using the FOIA.

167 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:47:54am

How many of those flights were so he could get his wick dipped?

168 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:48:45am

re: #158 JarHeadLifer

I wonder how many stories the AP has run on John Edwards looming possible indictment on campaign finance fraud stemming from illegal payments to his "baby's mama", funneled through multimillionaire, fat-cat campaign contributors. Just saying.

No need to wonder. Just go and look it up at Google News if you're curious.

[Link: news.google.com...]

About 2,206 results. Lots of coverage of the finance fraud allegations.

169 The Shadow Do  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:48:47am

re: #147 SanFranciscoZionist

Whom are you quoting there?

The Goracle of course.

170 Flyovercountry  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:48:59am

re: #167 Cato the Elder

Is there nothing which you hold in too poor a taste?

171 Gus  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:49:05am

re: #163 Killgore Trout

Huh, I guess I'm a little slow to figure that out.

I thought about Terri Schiavo from the onset regarding these so called "death panels." Oddly enough, the same people that decry these advance directives also decry the abuse of the court system. If one doesn't have an advance directive or a living will it typically lands in court. And in many cases that can be a long and drawn out process not unlike what happened with Terri Schiavo which was additionally politicized.

172 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:49:42am

re: #155 MandyManners

What about their associations with IARA and tyrants? How is supporting Gulbuddin Hekmatyar doing God's work?

When it suited his purposes, Coe's model Adolf Hitler had no trouble cozying up to the wicked Bolshevicks he had condemned all his life. I would imagine that "Family" ideology is much the same. Btw, Richard Nixon was the only recent GOP president who rejected involvement with this group (Watergate hatchetman Chuck Colson was, and still is, a made member).

173 The Shadow Do  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:50:21am

re: #154 itellu3times

I think Bubba retired the trophy.

Yes, his Jersey shorts are hanging from the rafters

174 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:50:35am

re: #170 Flyovercountry

Is there nothing which you hold in too poor a taste?

Is there anything you can't turn into grammatical gibberish?

175 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:50:43am

re: #148 buzzsawmonkey

Both men and women were just as capable of being irresponsible in the days when out-of-wedlock birth was not supported by government subsidy; customs, and social stigma upon the people who behaved irresponsibly operated to prevent people from living down to their lowest possible common denominator.

True, and for the most part, they still do. But what changed besides government intervention? This is the consequence of that action.

And certainly one would not have expected the wealthy and prominent, in years past, to engage in the spree of casual illegitimacy that our celebrity types do today.

Nonsense- they most certainly did. History is littered with the illegitimate children of the rich and powerful. They just had better means of dealing with the *ahem* problem. Certainly no one thinks less of Benjamin Franklin or Thomas Jefferson. And of course there is royalty throughout history, etc., etc.

176 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:50:52am

Somebody's going around and signing me up for spam lists and junk mail lists again.

177 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:51:53am

re: #176 Charles

Somebody's going around and signing me up for spam lists and junk mail lists again.

That's so unoriginal it bears the signs of Macker.

178 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:52:15am

re: #172 shiplord kirel

When it suited his purposes, Coe's model Adolf Hitler had no trouble cozying up to the wicked Bolshevicks he had condemned all his life. I would imagine that "Family" ideology is much the same. Btw, Richard Nixon was the only recent GOP president who rejected involvement with this group (Watergate hatchetman Chuck Colson was, and still is, a made member).

I thought the involvement of the presidents was the prayer breakfasts.

179 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:52:24am

'Death Book'? Pretty weak sauce for a 'death book'. Seems to me Pres. Bush may have been a tad bit concerned for political correctness on this one.

But as for death I say, (one of my favorite quotes) from the late great George Carlin, "I wanna live. I don’t wanna die. That’s the whole meaning of life: Not dying! I figured that s__t out by myself in the third grade."

180 Buck  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:52:46am

re: #177 Cato the Elder

That's so unoriginal it bears the signs of Macker.

Or Lady E...

181 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:52:51am

re: #171 Gus 802

I guess I never even thought about it. I just assumed they were latching onto anything in the bill that they could twist into something scary to frighten people. It does seem like a pattern that they're focusing on death counseling stuff because they want to have control over those decisions instead of the individual.
I'll have to adjust my thinking a little bit on this.

182 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:53:01am

re: #175 Sharmuta

heh ... John of Gaunt nee Katherine Swynford

183 jim in virginia  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:53:50am

Random musings on a Sunday afternoon:
Obamacare will go down in flames. Pelosi can't pass a bill with the public option and she can't pass one without it. As the debate gets more rancorous in the next six weeks, they won't be able to pass anything on health care insurance reform.
Cap and trade will die in the Senate.
Obama will blame Republicans but the Democratic House leadership will turn on itself. Pelosi will lose the Speakership.
So if you're Waxman or Dingel or Rangel, what do you do now to hide your failures? Investigate Cheney, Rove, Bush, John Yoo, the CIA, the FBI...and then things really get nasty.

184 brookly red  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:54:59am

re: #183 jim in virginia

Random musings on a Sunday afternoon:
Obamacare will go down in flames. Pelosi can't pass a bill with the public option and she can't pass one without it. As the debate gets more rancorous in the next six weeks, they won't be able to pass anything on health care insurance reform.
Cap and trade will die in the Senate.
Obama will blame Republicans but the Democratic House leadership will turn on itself. Pelosi will lose the Speakership.
So if you're Waxman or Dingel or Rangel, what do you do now to hide your failures? Investigate Cheney, Rove, Bush, John Yoo, the CIA, the FBI...and then things really get nasty.

and so it was written...

185 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:55:06am

re: #176 Charles

Somebody's going around and signing me up for spam lists and junk mail lists again.

(considering that it's probably someone chronologically an adult) ... pitiful

186 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:55:31am

re: #176 Charles

Somebody's going around and signing me up for spam lists and junk mail lists again.

Forward all the Male Enhancement ones to me,,

,,,ummm,,, I'm doing a research paper on it ,, yeah ,, thats it ,,, a research paper!

//

187 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:55:31am

it's cool, he'll just go on TV and invoke the name of earth jesus and say he's sorry then everyone in south carolina will forgive him. such is the south.

188 Flyovercountry  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:56:32am

re: #174 Cato the Elder

Is there anything you can't turn into grammatical gibberish?

Since I have been around on LGF, I have not read a single comment made by you which has come close to being intelligent. I guess pretending to be well read or an intellectual elite, coupled with sexual innuendo is the closest you can come. I pity you. I await the down ding from jeffo anytime.

189 TheAntichrist  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:57:23am

re: #187 spacejesus

it's cool, he'll just go on TV and invoke the name of earth jesus and say he's sorry then everyone in south carolina will forgive him. such is the south.

Jesus never reported a single flight paid for by friends in his whole life, did he? So Sanford is just doing what Jesus did. Who could hate him for that?

190 avanti  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:57:30am

re: #159 Killgore Trout

I'm starting to detect a pattern here on the Death Panel and Veteran's Death Book. Does this tie in with Terry Schiavo? I think this might have to do with the fact that the religious right wants to make the decisions about end of life matters instead of the individuals themselves or their doctors.
/just a thought.

Made me do some work on Jim Towey, the guy that wrote the death book story and author of his own booklet. He sat on a panel the decided that the a terminal illness was not a requirement as in the Schivo case, and was the only dissenter.:

"Ultimately, 21 of 22 panelists voted to remove the terminal requirement from Chapter 765, which critics argued would have effectively made the advance-directive process a backdoor, of sorts, to assisted suicide. JJim Towey, founder of the Florida Commission on Aging With Dignity, was the lone dissenter.

"We shouldn't be making this dramatic change until we have heard more from the disabled, the poor, the elderly," Towey argued. "Those groups aren't worried about getting too much care. They are worried about getting any care at all."

In other words, he thinks a person, vet or not, must be keep alive regardless of brain death for example.

191 MandyManners  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:58:04am

Gonna' go grab a snack before I get some sand in my shorts.

192 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:58:05am

re: #187 spacejesus

it's cool, he'll just go on TV and invoke the name of earth jesus and say he's sorry then everyone in south carolina will forgive him. such is the south.

Yet Ted (the swimmer) Kennedy gets elected to the Senate over and over and over and over
But he DID wear that neck brace for a few weeks after Chappaquiddick
Such is the 'north" I guess, huh?

193 Lincolntf  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:58:15am

re: #183 jim in virginia

All very possible.

194 Gus  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:58:22am

re: #181 Killgore Trout

I guess I never even thought about it. I just assumed they were latching onto anything in the bill that they could twist into something scary to frighten people. It does seem like a pattern that they're focusing on death counseling stuff because they want to have control over those decisions instead of the individual.
I'll have to adjust my thinking a little bit on this.

Well, there that too: cynical political opportunism. The Terri Schiavo effect will come into play I think. Also, I think we're dealing with behavior or fear of death issues. This matter I find odd because living wills, DNR orders, and advance directives are not new concepts and have been discussed and utilized in the public sphere for several decades.

On a side note. The top author of the VA booklet is Robert A. Pearlman, MD who has been with the National Center for Ethics in Health Care since 2000. The booklet in question looks like it covers a lot of standard ground and useful information for those having to face such a daunting task.

195 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:58:32am

re: #188 Flyovercountry

Since I have been around on LGF, I have not read a single comment made by you which has come close to being intelligent. I guess pretending to be well read or an intellectual elite, coupled with sexual innuendo is the closest you can come. I pity you. I await the down ding from jeffo anytime.

I'm an elitist, not an "elite". There's a big difference.

196 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:58:40am
197 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:58:41am

re: #178 MandyManners

I thought the involvement of the presidents was the prayer breakfasts.

It goes a lot farther than that, though it was Democrat Jimmy Carter who probably went farthest when he involved the Family directly in the Camp David negotiations. President Reagan and both Bushes made use of the Family's informal diplomacy during their administrations and said so in public.

198 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:58:51am

re: #190 avanti

In other words, he thinks a person, vet or not, must be keep alive regardless of brain death for example.


Ugh. What a nightmarish world it would be.

199 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:59:14am

re: #186 sattv4u2

Forward all the Male Enhancement ones to me,,

,,,ummm,,, I'm doing a research paper on it ,, yeah ,, thats it ,,, a research paper!

//

GAH! I know the ones in Australia are gone, but does anyone still maintain a penile colony somewhere? As soon as we find one, we'll send you.

200 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 11:59:45am

re: #192 sattv4u2

Yet Ted (the swimmer) Kennedy gets elected to the Senate over and over and over and over
But he DID wear that neck brace for a few weeks after Chappaquiddick
Such is the 'north" I guess, huh?

Oooo... that left a mark... *rubs face*.

/but I am normally in the North 'west'..did Craig get re-voted in?

201 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:00:03pm
202 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:00:48pm

OT: Robert Spencer gets throw out of UK restaurant...

As I noted here, I am still in England and have been working all week with work on a documentary on the Islamization of Europe -- the one I mentioned here.

It has been a most interesting week on a number of levels. I had a most illuminating dinner with a group including Douglas Murray that offered a bracing introduction to British dhimmitude: we had to move our dinner at the last minute since the proprietors of the George Restaurant didn't like us discussing jihad and Islamization on the premises. In fact, when I returned to the George the next night with the producers of the film, we were not allowed entry because the previous night we had been discussing jihad and Islamic supremacism.


I wonder if he's meeting with any of the BNP folks.

203 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:01:41pm

re: #159 Killgore Trout

I'm starting to detect a pattern here on the Death Panel and Veteran's Death Book. Does this tie in with Terry Schiavo? I think this might have to do with the fact that the religious right wants to make the decisions about end of life matters instead of the individuals themselves or their doctors.
/just a thought.

I think so. We've had a pretty good definition of Human death since the first heart transplant technology was developed. No functioning cerebral cortex, no human. Harvest away!

But the Culture of Life folks don't seem to accept that. I think it's because that coin has another side, where that would be the standard of Human life. If that were so, we wouldn't be having a discussion of stem cell research or first trimester abortions. The argument would be moot. No functioning cortex, no human.

204 JarHeadLifer  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:02:54pm

re: #168 Charles

No need to wonder. Just go and look it up at Google News if you're curious.

[Link: news.google.com...]

About 2,206 results. Lots of coverage of the finance fraud allegations.

Interesting. In the last month, the only story from the AP that comes up when using the terms "AP" "John Edwards" "Grand Jury", is the story that the AP wrote on the day that his "mistress" testified.

Conversely, for a search on "Mark Sanford" using the same time period, I stopped counting at 8 as the number of stories I found on Mark Sanford authored by the AP, including one ongoing story that labeled "AP INVESTIGATION".

Probably nothing to that. I'm mean really, what's more important, an ongoing federal grand jury investigation into the misappropriation presidential campaign contributions, or Jenny Sanford moving out of the South Carolina governor's mansion and the four AP stories I found just on that topic?

205 Flyovercountry  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:03:22pm

re: #195 Cato the Elder

I'm an elitist, not an "elite". There's a big difference.

I now find you boring.

206 Gus  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:04:15pm

re: #36 Charles

This "death book" garbage is giving me another huge headache.

With all the valid criticisms you can make of nationalized health care, the best the GOP can do is ... lie?

A massive headache. Incidentally, I just noticed that this booklet was released in 2007:

His most recent book, entitled Your Life, Your Choices, is an interactive workbook to help patients and family members with advance care planning. Your Life, Your Choices will be available to veterans through MyHealtheVet in 2007. He has mentored many junior faculty throughout the United States in the technique of combining empirical research methods and ethics.

[Link: www.ethics.va.gov...]

207 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:04:18pm
208 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:04:47pm

re: #201 buzzsawmonkey

Right- the 60s. When the "Great Society" started. The government has no control if people are more or less religious, but they do have a role in funding social issues.

209 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:05:09pm

Governor Sanford's financial and personal affairs are irreducibly complex.

- Sanford's Defense Attorney.

210 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:05:19pm

re: #196 MikeySDCA

Have you read The Last Mughal? [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] It's excellent.

Hadn't heard of it.
I just Favorited your post.

211 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:05:27pm

re: #207 buzzsawmonkey

Trying to pica fight? I didn't think you were the type.

Incunabully, I am.

212 yochanan  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:05:42pm

frankly the crooks and smucks go were the money and power are. not to many crooked memembers of the GOP in chicagostan now springfield is a different matter.

213 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:06:30pm

re: #192 sattv4u2

Yet Ted (the swimmer) Kennedy gets elected to the Senate over and over and over and over
But he DID wear that neck brace for a few weeks after Chappaquiddick
Such is the 'north" I guess, huh?


did kennedy ever fly down to south america and cheat on his wife and get caught? did ted ever stoop to the level of using the bible to excuse scandalous behavior?

214 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:06:54pm
215 jim in virginia  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:07:07pm

re: #201 buzzsawmonkey

--as late as the 1950s it was considered damaging to a woman's reputation to be seen unchaperoned in a convertible car with a man to whom she was not married--etc.


One of my cousin lives in Nebraska. He and his wife are lovely people. Kind, generous, caring, not at all naive. A couple years ago I was back for a family reunion which they had organized. I'd rented a car, offered a ride to anyone who needed one. The wife noted, quite seriously, that she could not ride with me if her husband were not with us. What would people think?

216 Racer X  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:07:29pm

I have a suggestion for Obama, Nancy, and Harry: find some doctors, nurses, and medical professionals to help you re-write the health care bill. Get some input from people close to the insurance aspect of it. Figure out what is broken with the current system and work to fix that.

It seems to me that the biggest problem with our current health care "system" is BUREAUCRACY. Building a brand new system run by the government will certainly have way more bureaucracy than there is now, so why do more of what is currently the problem?

217 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:07:44pm

re: #214 buzzsawmonkey

From each according to his incunabilities, to each according to his reams.

Are you making fun of quires?

218 Lincolntf  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:07:44pm

Wee-Wee One has landed at the Cape.

Life's a beach

219 kcladderman  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:07:51pm

re: #213 SpaceJesus

No he only left a girl to die

220 debutaunt  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:08:51pm

re: #159 Killgore Trout

I'm starting to detect a pattern here on the Death Panel and Veteran's Death Book. Does this tie in with Terry Schiavo? I think this might have to do with the fact that the religious right wants to make the decisions about end of life matters instead of the individuals themselves or their doctors.
/just a thought.

Any attempt to take that decision away from my doctor and family won't be for my benefit.

221 Buck  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:08:57pm

Obama care will go down in flames BUT it will not really be due to the Blue Dogs, and Obama's inability to show how he will pay for it.

No one believes it will be budget neutral.

The WH wants to BLAME anyone except Democrats. The press wants to blame anyone except Obama and his inability to control his own party on this.

If they could ram this through, they would. Remember the "we won" comment?

They can't, because it is half baked, and poorly planned. Not because of death books, death panels or pulling the plug on grandma.

222 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:09:53pm

re: #171 Gus 802

I thought about Terri Schiavo from the onset regarding these so called "death panels." Oddly enough, the same people that decry these advance directives also decry the abuse of the court system. If one doesn't have an advance directive or a living will it typically lands in court. And in many cases that can be a long and drawn out process not unlike what happened with Terri Schiavo which was additionally politicized.


The Religious Right loves meat puppets. It's easy to shove a hand up their back and make them say anything you want. They would love nothing more than to have hundreds of thousands of Terry Schiavo's intubated and staring at ceilings across the countryside to use as props in their campaign to establish an American theocracy.

Fuckers.

223 yochanan  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:10:06pm

re: #213 SpaceJesus

no he just left his girlie in the drink and stayed away to sober up.

224 jim in virginia  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:10:18pm

re: #216 Racer X And include tort reform.
/Yeah, like that will ever happen...

225 Racer X  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:11:40pm

re: #221 Buck

Obama care will go down in flames BUT it will not really be due to the Blue Dogs, and Obama's inability to show how he will pay for it.

No one believes it will be budget neutral.

The WH wants to BLAME anyone except Democrats. The press wants to blame anyone except Obama and his inability to control his own party on this.

If they could ram this through, they would. Remember the "we won" comment?

They can't, because it is half baked, and poorly planned. Not because of death books, death panels or pulling the plug on grandma.

They TRIED to ram this through. They failed. Now many on both sides are admitting the original bill was a piece of crap.

THAT is poor leadership from Obama.

226 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:11:46pm
227 yochanan  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:12:06pm

re: #218 Lincolntf

Wee-Wee One has landed at the Cape.

Life's a beach

that should be WEE WEED lets not leave out the 'D' he is a democrat

228 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:12:29pm
229 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:12:53pm

re: #226 buzzsawmonkey

I congratulate your family on their continuing observance of the waning folk practice of modesty.

Hey! Modesty and humility are the greatest things about me.

230 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:14:03pm

re: #228 buzzsawmonkey

Shouldn't that be spelled "Rahm" in that first sentence?

Careful, or next you'll begin putting on Ayers.

231 jim in virginia  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:14:20pm

re: #229 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey! Modesty and humility are the greatest things about me.

I thought it was your wit, charm, intelligence and stunning good looks.

232 yochanan  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:14:43pm

re: #222 SixDegrees

The Religious Right loves meat puppets. It's easy to shove a hand up their back and make them say anything you want. They would love nothing more than to have hundreds of thousands of Terry Schiavo's intubated and staring at ceilings across the countryside to use as props in their campaign to establish an American theocracy.

Fuckers.

this is totally low class posting on a difficult issue. can you be anymore of a cold and asine smuck on this issue. people with honest and real opinions on this issue can be on both sides of this heart felt issue.

233 Buck  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:15:12pm

re: #225 Racer X

They TRIED to ram this through. They failed. Now many on both sides are admitting the original bill was a piece of crap.

THAT is poor leadership from Obama.

Obama has blamed the Republicans, over and over... it even came up during the last press conf. it is a LIE. He can count... and you and I can count.

He does have the votes, even with a majority in both houses.

234 debutaunt  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:15:26pm

re: #177 Cato the Elder

That's so unoriginal it bears the signs of Macker.

Lady Macker.

235 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:16:02pm

re: #231 jim in virginia

I thought it was your wit, charm, intelligence and stunning good looks.

Those are all incredibly redeeming qualities about me also, but I think humility is at the top.

236 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:16:22pm

re: #234 debutaunt

Lady Macker.

Youtube Video
237 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:16:37pm
238 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:17:38pm

Inglourious Basterds. #1 movie in America. 86% positive reviews on Rotten Tomatoes. I can't wait to see it.

239 Racer X  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:17:42pm

Medicare = Fail
Medicaid = Fail
Social Security = Fail
Post Office = Fail
Cash For Clunkers = Fail

Government Run Health Care = Success!

/you'll believe anything.

240 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:18:04pm

re: #232 yochanan

this is totally low class posting on a difficult issue. can you be anymore of a cold and asine smuck on this issue. people with honest and real opinions on this issue can be on both sides of this heart felt issue.

It's an entirely accurate portrayal of the Religious Right's posturing and egregiousness on this issue. I stand behind my description 100%, and wouldn't change a word. It's exactly what they did to Terry Schiavo, and they're slavering for more victims to heartlessly press into service of their goals.

241 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:19:01pm

re: #213 SpaceJesus

did kennedy ever fly down to south america and cheat on his wife and get caught? did ted ever stoop to the level of using the bible to excuse scandalous behavior?

You do NOT want to defend Ted Kennedy on the basis of "morals"! As someone that was born and raised in Boston (lived there 1953-1999) I am all tool aware of Mr Kennedys indescretions

242 Racer X  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:19:33pm

re: #233 Buck

Obama has blamed the Republicans, over and over... it even came up during the last press conf. it is a LIE. He can count... and you and I can count.

He does have the votes, even with a majority in both houses.

Obama and Democrats can pass any bill they like right now - they do not need ONE Republican vote. For anyone to blame Republicans is disingenuous.

243 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:19:36pm

re: #241 sattv4u2

I agree. You are all tool.

244 Racer X  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:20:17pm

re: #238 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Inglourious Basterds. #1 movie in America. 86% positive reviews on Rotten Tomatoes. I can't wait to see it.

Me too!

245 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:20:39pm
246 Buck  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:22:09pm

re: #237 MikeySDCA

I think you mean does not have the votes.

PIMF... of course I meant NOT. Thanks

247 Lincolntf  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:23:07pm

re: #241 sattv4u2

Yeah. People outside of MA have only the "Kennedy mystique" to judge them by.
Those of us who have spent our lives being "governed" by them have a whole different angle on it.

248 SurferDoc  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:23:12pm

Majorities in both houses and they don't have the votes. Now ain't that too damn bad.

249 SteveC  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:23:35pm

re: #245 buzzsawmonkey

If you are Humble, I can only wish you "Happy Motoring!"

The Happy Motoring sign saved my life.

250 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:23:54pm
251 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:23:56pm

re: #244 Racer X

Me too!

You should check out In The Loop. Breathtakingly funny political satire.

252 NoWhereAlaska  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:24:07pm

re: #242 Racer X

Obama and Democrats can pass any bill they like right now - they do not need ONE Republican vote. For anyone to blame Republicans is disingenuous.


The Senate needs 60 votes for closure of the debate. In order to get that either they need a couple GOP votes, or they need Kennedy and Bird able to vote. Why do think there is such a todo about the Mass. selection process to finish Kennedy's term.

253 SurferDoc  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:25:09pm

re: #252 NoWhereAlaska

The Senate needs 60 votes for closure of the debate. In order to get that either they need a couple GOP votes, or they need Kennedy and Bird able to vote. Why do think there is such a todo about the Mass. selection process to finish Kennedy's term.

They'd roll them both in on gurneys if they really wanted it.

254 SteveC  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:25:16pm

re: #248 SurferDoc

Majorities in both houses and they don't have the votes. Now ain't that too damn bad.

You could say "Majorities in both houses and they don't have the votes. That's too damn bad!" and also be correct! :)

255 Racer X  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:25:21pm

Oh man this is going to leave a mark.

Town Hall Meeting with U.S. Congressman Brian Baird

/damn Paulian Teabagger Redneck Racist White Nazis!

256 Buck  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:25:23pm

I know speaking about the departed is bad form. BUT if Macker and Lady E are the same person, then Macker is really multi personality.

Here is a website that refers to Lady E and Macker... can't be a coincidence... Must be the same people.

[Link: mackers-world.com...]

257 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:25:34pm
258 SurferDoc  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:25:53pm

re: #254 SteveC

You could say "Majorities in both houses and they don't have the votes. That's too damn bad!" and also be correct! :)

Bloody Mary is the girl I love.

259 Gella  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:25:53pm

re: #238 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Inglourious Basterds. #1 movie in America. 86% positive reviews on Rotten Tomatoes. I can't wait to see it.

i seen it last night, its actually pretty good, if you like Trantino movies

260 jim in virginia  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:26:07pm

re: #235 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Those are all incredibly redeeming qualities about me also, but I think humility is at the top.

Just for you
(You knew this was coming, didn't you?)

261 Racer X  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:26:44pm

re: #252 NoWhereAlaska

The Senate needs 60 votes for closure of the debate. In order to get that either they need a couple GOP votes, or they need Kennedy and Bird able to vote. Why do think there is such a todo about the Mass. selection process to finish Kennedy's term.

No worries. Ted wants to change the rules - five years after he changed them the first time - so that Democrats stay in power.

262 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:27:26pm

re: #258 SurferDoc

Bloody Mary is the girl I love.

Her skin is soft, like a baseball glove...

263 The Other Les  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:27:30pm

re: #16 solomonpanting

It looks as though he flew Kamikaze Airlines.

It's too bad John Belushi isn't still around. He could do the Samurai Airlines sketch.

264 The Other Les  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:27:54pm

re: #261 Racer X

No worries. Ted wants to change the rules - five years after he changed them the first time - so that Democrats stay in power.

Power is life for that lot.

265 jim in virginia  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:27:56pm

re: #248 SurferDoc

Majorities in both houses and they don't have the votes. Now ain't that too damn bad.

Ignorance of math is a terrible thing.
Obviously we need more government spending on education.

266 Lincolntf  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:28:43pm

re: #261 Racer X

Yup. TK wants to screw the people of MA one last time.

267 SteveC  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:28:47pm

re: #261 Racer X

No worries. Ted wants to change the rules - five years after he changed them the first time - so that Democrats stay in power.

Ted has never played the game fairly in his overweight, alcoholic life.

Don't believe me? Go ask Mary Jo.

268 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:29:33pm
269 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:29:58pm

re: #252 NoWhereAlaska

The Senate needs 60 votes for closure of the debate. In order to get that either they need a couple GOP votes, or they need Kennedy and Bird able to vote. Why do think there is such a todo about the Mass. selection process to finish Kennedy's term.

Actually, a simple majority is needed. 60 votes is required only to head off a filibuster attempt. Close votes are often contentious, of course, and the possibility of filibuster is high. But having 60 votes isn't a necessity.

It's also unlikely that either the Democratic or the Republican side will remain stalwart. There are always a few crossovers.

The real problem going forward with the "nuclear option" is the rancor it would open within Congress. As if things aren't bad enough, it would mark the end of bipartisanship altogether, and a near-certain slew of Democratic defeats in 2010 as moderates defect and attempt to restore checks and balances to the system.

270 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:30:29pm

re: #213 SpaceJesus

did kennedy ever fly down to south america and cheat on his wife and get caught? did ted ever stoop to the level of using the bible to excuse scandalous behavior?

You are kidding about Kennedy and the Bible, right?

I mean - you actually knew about his stances back when his seat was competitive, correct?

Because Ted Kennedy used to be a lecturing moralist on all issues Catholic back in the 1970s which was why he could hold his seat in a state that used to vote for Republicans.

Like his brothers, he was adamantly pro-life and even wrote:

"When history looks back to this era it should recognize this generation as one which cared about human beings enough to halt the practice of war, to provide a decent living for every family, and to fulfill its responsibility to its children from the very moment of conception."

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

He also was able to later get a marriage of 24 years and which bore 3 children annulled over his wife's objections [Link: www.volokh.com...]

Kennedy plays the Catholic thing to the hilt with his constituents yet doesn't walk the walk (except on issues of pacifism and welfare spending).

271 shiplord kirel  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:31:24pm

Let it not be said that the Death Committee crowd is completely lacking a sense of humor...

Cash for Codgers

Subject: CASH FOR CODGERS

Just in from the White House . . .Cash for Codgers

Democrats, realizing the big success of the President's "Cash For Clunkers" rebate program, have revamped a major portion of the Obama Nationalization - Health Care Plan.

President Obama, Speaker Pelosi, and Sen. Reid are expected to make this major announcement at a joint news conference later this week. I have obtained an advanced copy of the proposal which is named...

"CASH FOR CODGERS"

It works like this... Couples wishing to access health care funds in order to pay for the delivery of a child will be required to turn in one old person on the day of delivery. The amount the government grants them will be fixed according to a sliding scale. Older and more 'prescription dependent' codgers will garner the highest amounts.

Special 'Bonuses' will be paid for those submitting codgers in targeted groups, such as smokers, alcohol drinkers, persons 10 pounds over their government prescribed weight, and any member of the Republican Party.

Smaller bonuses will be given for codgers who consume beef, soda, fried foods, potato chips, lattes, whole milk, dairy products, bacon, Brussels sprouts, cheese, or Girl Scout Cookies.

All codgers will be rendered totally useless via a toxic injection - similar to that given to the engines of the 'clunker' trade ins. This will insure that they, like the vehicle 'clunkers', are not secretly resold (traded in) or their body parts harvested to keep other codgers in repair and among society.

272 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:32:02pm

re: #262 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Her skin is soft, like a baseball glove...

Her skin is tender as DiMaggio's glove
And ain't that too damn bad

273 The Other Les  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:32:24pm

re: #267 SteveC

Ted has never played the game fairly in his overweight, alcoholic life.

Don't believe me? Go ask Mary Jo.

"So I'm walking through this Inferno thing and I come across an old Oldsmobile with Massachusetts plates on it partially submerged in the river of boiling blood and I could hear someone banging on the inside of it. 'Must be Ted,' I thought."

274 SteveC  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:32:47pm

re: #253 SurferDoc

They'd roll them both in on gurneys if they really wanted it.

"Senator Kennedy of Massachusetts, how do you say?"

"Just a moment, Mr. Chairman... charge for 440 megajoules... CLEAR!"

275 Racer X  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:32:57pm

re: #271 shiplord kirel

LOL!

276 Lincolntf  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:33:17pm

re: #270 karmic_inquisitor

People don't want the truth about Teddy. They prefer the myth.
Can't say that I blame them. The truth is a rancid tale of corruption and dissolution.

277 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:33:27pm

Heads up, Charles: The NYT Magazine mentions LGF today in the same breath with JW and FP. Seriously. Article on "Feminist Hawks".

278 SixDegrees  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:34:03pm

re: #270 karmic_inquisitor

Ted Kennedy is a murderer, a drunk and a thug. End of story. His presence in the United States Senate is a stain on the nation.

279 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:35:46pm

re: #272 Alouette

Funny... in High School it was 'baseball glove'. Guess it was trying to be more "current".

280 Gus  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:36:58pm

re: #277 Cato the Elder

Heads up, Charles: The NYT Magazine mentions LGF today in the same breath with JW and FP. Seriously. Article on "Feminist Hawks".

The Medium: The Feminist Hawks

Hawkish sites that have taken up feminism include Little Green Footballs, Jihad Watch and Horowitz’s FrontPage Magazine. On a recent day, the home page of the last featured reports of female prisoners being raped in Iran; prepubescent girls getting married in Gaza; and a possible honor killing by an immigrant in New York. This material is expected to help seal Horowitz’s general case for the war on terror, though he has not yet changed the name of his cause to, say, the war on misogyny.

281 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:37:27pm

re: #202 Killgore Trout

OT: Robert Spencer gets throw out of UK restaurant...

It has been a most interesting week on a number of levels. I had a most illuminating dinner with a group including Douglas Murray that offered a most bracing introduction to British dhimmitude: we had to move our dinner at the last most minute since the proprietors of the George Restaurant most didn't like us discussing jihad and Islamization on the premises. In fact, when I returned to the George the next night with the producers of the film, we were most not allowed entry because the previous night we had most been discussing jihad and Islamic supremacism.

Most eloquent.

282 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:37:32pm

re: #276 Lincolntf

People don't want the truth about Teddy. They prefer the myth.
Can't say that I blame them. The truth is a rancid tale of corruption and dissolution.

When the legend becomes fact print the legend...

-"The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance"

283 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:37:48pm

re: #277 Cato the Elder

re: #280 Gus 802

Way Cool


CONGRATS, Chief Lizard!

284 Gella  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:37:57pm

re: #277 Cato the Elder

Heads up, Charles: The NYT Magazine mentions LGF today in the same breath with JW and FP. Seriously. Article on "Feminist Hawks".

oyy way

285 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:38:23pm

re: #281 Cato the Elder

Most eloquent.

Mostly!

286 SurferDoc  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:39:33pm

re: #268 buzzsawmonkey

To the tune of "Haul on the Bowline":

Roll 'em in on gurneys, help the bill on its journey
Roll 'em in on gurneys, on gurneys roll!
Bring the gurneys rollin', the Senate votes we're pollin'
Roll 'em in on gurneys, on gurneys roll!

Congress chanteys!

Rollin', rollin', rollin', keep them gurneys rollin',
Rawhide!

287 SteveC  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:39:48pm

re: #280 Gus 802

Hawkish sites that have taken up feminism include Little Green Footballs, Jihad Watch and Horowitz’s FrontPage Magazine. On a recent day, the home page of the last featured reports of female prisoners being raped in Iran; prepubescent girls getting married in Gaza; and a possible honor killing by an immigrant in New York. This material is expected to help seal Horowitz’s general case for the war on terror, though he has not yet changed the name of his cause to, say, the war on misogyny.

Hell, that ain't news. Charles/LGF has been on the case for years now.

Times, get your ass in gear.

288 opnion  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:42:00pm

re: #278 SixDegrees

Ted Kennedy is a murderer, a drunk and a thug. End of story. His presence in the United States Senate is a stain on the nation.

By any legal definition he is guilty of vehicular homicide.
If that had not happened in the State of Mass, he would have been in serious jeopardy.
Teddy claimed that after he tried to save Mary Jo , that he swam from the Island to the Mainland.
An Olympic swimmer barely made it, so it is highly unlikely that Teddy in a drunken state could have done it. If someone came to get him, who was it & why wasn't the accident reported immediately?

289 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:42:48pm

Intimidation and Fraud Observed in Afghan Election - 10 bucks says Attorney General Eric Holder would disagree.

[...]
A particular concern was the notably low turnout of women, who election observer organizations said were disproportionately affected by the violence and intimidation. [...]

'A particular concern' by whom? It's certainly has ever been the NYTimes, women's rights org's or the Left. Uh-oh, do I smell a 'Stop the War! We gotta get out!' campaign brewing?

Boy...is the NYTimes in high screech today with Frank Rich frothing...poor babies. The Guns of August...sheesh.

Just wait till October rolls around.

290 SteveC  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:44:24pm

re: #282 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

When the legend becomes fact print the legend...

-"The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance"

You lookin' for trouble, Doniphon? :)

291 jim in virginia  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:48:34pm

re: #288 opnion

Teddy claimed that after he tried to save Mary Jo , that he swam from the Island to the Mainland.
An Olympic swimmer barely made it, so it is highly unlikely that Teddy in a drunken state could have done it. If someone came to get him, who was it & why wasn't the accident reported immediately?


And he had two friends/ aides with him who watched him jump off the dock into the channel. Sure.

292 opnion  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:51:14pm

re: #291 jim in virginia

And he had two friends/ aides with him who watched him jump off the dock into the channel. Sure.

Yes & then Teddy fell into bed exhausted. Odd there were all kinds of calls during the night on his telephone calling card.
When he gets on his moral high horse it is so ironic.

293 quickjustice  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:59:47pm

re: #113 itellu3times

Henry Clay Frick, about then-Governor Theodore Roosevelt of New York: "We bought Roosevelt, but he wouldn't stay bought."

294 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 1:00:06pm

Space Jesus -

Here is a nice article from June 21, 1974 on how devout Joan and Ted were and how they were model Catholics.

[Link: news.google.com...]

Joan was. Ted wasn't (among other women, he was screwing a married 28 year old named Amanda Burden at the time - her husband was a NYC councilman).

But he didn't fly to South America to do it - so I guess that makes him a better Christian than Sanford.

295 Right Brain  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 1:06:18pm

This story is utter nonsense. Exactly what is the cost in a private plane of having an additional passenger? 40 cents an hour in additional drag and thus gas?

296 quickjustice  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 1:10:59pm

Just got off the phone with a physician friend of mine. My friend says:

1. To control costs in medicine, you have to give patients some financial skin in the game. There's no incentive to reduce costs if health care costs patients nothing. Too many health plans and the government provide "dollar one" coverage, i.e., the insurance picks up every nickel of the cost. That's horrible moral hazard, providing exactly the wrong incentives. We'd be better off with the government providing catastrophic coverage for every American with a $25,000 deductible. In other words, the first $25,000 per year of health care costs is paid privately, by the patient through an HSA, through private insurance, or a through a government voucher in the case of the indigent.

2. The government strictly regulates only health care costs in excess of $25,000 per patient per year, as well as the use of the government vouchers. The government requires transparency in pricing and quality of health care from all physicians and other providers. Everything else is in the private market.

3. Such a system would drastically reduce the size of the existing health care bureaucracy, would reduce regulations and government interference in health care, and would reduce costs dramatically by reintroducing competition based upon price and quality.

3. Under this plan,

297 quickjustice  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 1:15:33pm

As for Sanford flying all the time on other people's dimes, does this mean he's a member of the mile-high-club many times over?

I still think his wife would be better governor than he is.

298 debutaunt  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 1:17:35pm

re: #292 opnion

Yes & then Teddy fell into bed exhausted. Odd there were all kinds of calls during the night on his telephone calling card.
When he gets on his moral high horse it is so ironic.

Sleep-phoning - it could happen.

299 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 1:23:50pm
300 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 1:34:24pm

re: #299 keithtell

Oh, piss off.

301 Pete(Detroit)  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 2:15:14pm

re: #199 pre-Boomer Marine brat

GAH! I know the ones in Australia are gone, but does anyone still maintain a penile colony somewhere? As soon as we find one, we'll send you.

"Get-mo"?

302 doubter4444  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 2:25:50pm

re: #202 Killgore Trout

He writes like a ponsy nancy-boy


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