We Got Mail!

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Blogosphere • Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 3:41 pm PDT • Views: 336

We’re always posting the hate mail we receive, because it’s so often inadvertently funny. But for a change, here’s an email titled “Appreciation” (uh oh, it’s from an Obama supporter) that made my day.

I wanted to express how much I appreciate — and how classy it is — the work you do to toss away the shrill nonsense that comes from the Right around healthcare and other issues. You seem to be saying something along the lines of “there are reasonable and significant arguments to be made here, but the constant bellowing of this b.s. is drowning out the arguments we really want to be making.” And that is awesome.

Full disclosure: I am a registered Democrat and an Obama supporter — my aim is to be one that applies due diligence and intellectual curiosity (and honesty) to my education on the issues.

I am definitely still in the information gathering stage on healthcare reform.  The discussions on LGF (and the Google site) are an invaluable resource, primarily because the culture you’ve established is that the preposterous wolf-crying is not welcome.

I absolutely want to see detailed, honest, nuanced questions asked and answered on healthcare. The legislation needs to be dissected, analyzed, and honestly discussed. And LGF is the only place I’ve found where people who have tough questions and principled disagreements with Obama’s plan are put front and center while the shrieking trolls are relegated to the bench.

I don’t know that my mind will be changed — when all is said and done much of this comes down to a political philosophy on leadership and role of government and not a clear right or wrong — and I am certainly not here to attempt to change anyone’s mind, but there is no question I will have a much better sense of the whole of the issue by reading LGF.

Long story short: thank you.

-Ryan

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107 comments

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1 yochanan  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:42:20pm

the movie?

2 pat  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:45:01pm

A reasoned discussion? Obama and congress have yet to read the Bills.

3 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:45:23pm
when all is said and done much of this comes down to a political philosophy on leadership and role of government and not a clear right or wrong

Just a reminder:
Both the federal income tax and social security payments began at 1% of income.
I vote "wrong".

4 lawhawk  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:48:07pm

That's not the email that we were looking for. /jedi mind tricks

At a time when your inbox is usually chock full of hate-filled missives, this is a welcome departure.

Seriously though, this is about the only place online that is trying to raise the debate about the Obama plan to overhaul health care in the country. It would be nice if more places online - and in person- did this kind of thing.

That goes double for the media, which gets a kick (and a bonus in ratings) from the town hall dustups), but a grave disservice in the inability to provide accurate information about what's in the bills.

5 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:48:32pm

DEATHPANELNIRTHCERTIFIKIT!

6 kynna  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:48:54pm
I absolutely want to see detailed, honest, nuanced questions asked and answered on healthcare. The legislation needs to be dissected, analyzed, and honestly discussed.

I agree with this. Sadly, this is not what Obama and the Democrats wanted when they first tried to push this bill through without discussion.

And even more sad, I think the screeching is what put the brakes on enough to allow time for discussion and enlightenment.

Not everyone who opposes government run health care is a shrieking right wing whacko. Discussions are good. I'd love to see Congress have an honest one.

7 Gella  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:49:38pm

speaking of health care
Web extra: Congressman Herger calls Obama plan 'threat to democracy'
Redding, Calif. -

Republican Congressman Wally Herger held a health care town hall meeting Aug. 18 at Simpson University in Redding, where a partisan crowd of over 2,000 people loudly cheered Herger’s position that a public option was “unacceptable.”
Although Herger called several times for the audience to “respect each other’s opinions,” those opposed to president Obama’s health care were greeted with cheers while the few in favor were interrupted with catcalls.
Herger did not hold back on his opinion of the health care plan and the administration’s appointment of “czars” to head various departments and task forces.
“Our democracy has never been threatened as much as it is today,” Herger said to a loud standing ovation.
[Link: www.mtshastanews.com...]

8 neoconundrum  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:49:43pm

Charles,

You're getting compliments from the Left! What's that all about?;)

I absolutely want to see detailed, honest, nuanced questions asked and answered on healthcare...when all is said and done much of this comes down to a political philosophy on leadership and role of government...

Ryan,

Unless you have time to read the 1000 page bill, good luck.

So yes, the best argument against it is the knowledge that most every other government program is totally bankrupt!

That and Obama's philosophy of paying for everything Americans want with money we don't have.

9 Last Mohican  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:50:40pm

What a nice, well-written email. Charles, you well deserve the compliment.

I echo this Obama supporter's sentiment that the health care bills need to be dissected, analyzed, and honestly discussed. I wish that Mr. Obama and the Democratic leadership felt the same way. And I wish the Republican leadership could come up with a unified rebuttal other than "Death Panels!"

10 Bob Dillon  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:50:59pm

re: #6 kynna

Discussions are good. I'd love to see Congress have an honest one.

I don't think they ever have or ever will.

11 ted  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:51:26pm

Welcome Ryan!

12 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:51:28pm

re: #7 Gella

“Our democracy has never been threatened as much as it is today,” Herger said to a loud standing ovation.

Democracy is plenty safe however the fever pitch of right wing rhetoric is very dangerous. I really don't think we've seen anything like this in recent history.

13 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:51:57pm

Woot woot! Let's hear it for reason!

14 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:52:13pm

re: #13 Cato the Elder

Woot woot! Let's hear it for reason!

BOOO!

15 Last Mohican  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:52:39pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

Democracy is plenty safe however the fever pitch of right wing rhetoric is very dangerous. I really don't think we've seen anything like this in recent history.

Of course we have!

16 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:53:11pm

Who the hell is this Ryan? He lives on the left but shows respect and smarts in the political arena...I really like the way he showed respect to Charles..How many long time posters that have been kicked to the curb here and can't show the least amount respect on this blog.
Nice email Ryan...

17 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:53:19pm

Great email Charles.

18 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:54:09pm

btw - Ryan is a "RYNO!"

/

19 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:54:19pm

We Got Mail!

Oh Goody

This is always my favorite thread!!

20 Cato the Elder  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:56:06pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

BOOO!

Or, in your case, reason's ghost. ;^)

21 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:58:40pm

So...he likes LGF? If so, did he bring beer?

22 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:58:42pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

I really don't think we've seen anything like this in recent history.

You mean there was civility by the Left during GWB's two terms?

23 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 3:59:31pm

re: #9 Last Mohican

What a nice, well-written email. Charles, you well deserve the compliment.

I echo this Obama supporter's sentiment that the health care bills need to be dissected, analyzed, and honestly discussed. I wish that Mr. Obama and the Democratic leadership felt the same way. And I wish the Republican leadership could come up with a unified rebuttal other than "Death Panels!"

Well it would be nice to have one pragmatic, consensus driven bill that would be posted on the web for a period of time so that everyone could have an opportunity to discuss it on its merits and hammer out a final version from there.

You know - the approach Obama the Candidate had promissed regarding all legislation.

Instead there was an ideologically motivated effort to Rahm it through. That effort is what created the environment for all the squealing now heard. Had Obama actually conducted this reform effort in the manner he advertised, a different discussion would be taking place.

FWIW, I think that Obama et al feared the compromises that they'd have had to make and thought they could grab all of what they wanted.

We are all poorer for it.

24 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:00:33pm

My Pops is out at the track in Sonoma today...Watching the IRL..He called a while ago...
Hey Pops! what are ya doing?
I'm at Sear's point watching the race..
Pop's it's called Infineon racetrack now dad
Damn it boy it will always be Sear's Point...
My dad misses mom dearly.. He is lost and I worry about him...He is so lonely

25 midwestgak  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:02:04pm

re: #24 HoosierHoops

{Hossier}. Give {pops} a hug for me.

26 NelsFree  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:04:38pm

Ryan,

Since you are here collecting information, allow me to refer you to The Federalist Papers Online:

[Link: www.foundingfathers.info...]

This quote from No. 62, written by James Madison and published on 27 February 1788, says a lot that is relevant today:
"It will be of little avail to the people, that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood"
I have said before, 'timeless', and it bears repeating often.

27 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:04:43pm

re: #24 HoosierHoops

re: #25 midwestgak

{Hossier}. Give {pops} a hug for me.

No slight to you GAK, but if HossierDAD is at the IRL race he'd prolly rather get one from Danica Patrick

28 windhorse  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:05:01pm

Who said this?

"UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. ... the UPS and FED EX are doing great, but it's the United States Postal that's in bad shape!"

And this, my friends, is an argument FOR why we should turn health care over to the government?

Can anyone explain what I have missed here?

29 NelsFree  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:06:54pm

re: #21 Cannadian Club Akbar

So...he likes LGF? If so, did he bring beer?

I've got one...
SSSsssnak-chkpop!
(Tinkle)
Darn, I usually catch the cap!

30 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:08:37pm

re: #25 midwestgak

{Hossier}. Give {pops} a hug for me.

He is so lonely...fucking tears
When he passes we will be moving back home to Yountville in the house..
I'll be a Napa Valley boy again...It really sucks...
I hear the loneliness in his voice

31 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:08:54pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

Democracy is plenty safe however the fever pitch of right wing rhetoric is very dangerous. I really don't think we've seen anything like this in recent history.

And you think I am paranoid?

32 Truck Monkey  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:08:57pm

re: #28 windhorse

Who said this?

"UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. ... the UPS and FED EX are doing great, but it's the United States Postal that's in bad shape!"

And this, my friends, is an argument FOR why we should turn health care over to the government?

Can anyone explain what I have missed here?


They do such a great job with the Post Office and Cash for Clunkers and Medicare and Social Security and The Department of Education and Welfare and AFDC and Food Stamps and Public Housing etc...

Let's just give them a shot. What could go wrong?
//

33 danrudy  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:08:59pm

C'mon Gimme a break.

Obviously some Kos Kid Troll in deep stealth cover mode ingratiating himself (successfully) to the the leader so that he can gain the Lizards Army's confidence and then do his Manchurian deception and tel us how great socialized health care has been in his friends experience.

Don't fall for it.

/s

34 surrounded  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:09:36pm

Last I heard, there were five different plans circulating in Congress. None have been read by Obama. What is there to discuss?

35 windhorse  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:11:22pm

“We are God's partners in matters of life and death.”

just about the most arrogant thing I have heard in awhile...

36 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:11:46pm

re: #15 Last Mohican

Not even close.

37 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:12:00pm

I guess the question must be:
If Ryan can see that LGF is a resonable site, will he be able to get others to look? Will his friends just pee pee the thought of looking? Ryan, I wish you luck, open eyes and an open mind.

38 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:14:19pm
39 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:15:25pm

re: #35 windhorse

“We are God's partners in matters of life and death.”

just about the most arrogant thing I have heard in awhile...

I think Obama has been watching to many reruns of pulp fiction

40 The Curmudgeon  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:17:21pm

You want hate mail? How about this: Anyone in Congress who votes for a 1,000 page bill should automatically lose his job and his pension. Actually, the limit should be 100 pages. Even the budget should be broken down into small bills.

41 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:18:34pm

re: #28 windhorse

Who said this?

"UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. ... the UPS and FED EX are doing great, but it's the United States Postal that's in bad shape!"

And this, my friends, is an argument FOR why we should turn health care over to the government?

Can anyone explain what I have missed here?


You missed nothing, including media's silence.
The USPS isn't the only government entity in bad shape:


Millions face shrinking Social Security payments

42 ladycatnip  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:18:56pm
LGF is the only place I’ve found where people who have tough questions and principled disagreements with Obama’s plan are put front and center while the shrieking trolls are relegated to the bench.

Can we do that to Pelosi?

43 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:19:01pm
44 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:20:28pm

re: #43 buzzsawmonkey

If you want your country back, leave a pile of legislation in small unmarked bills in a black suitcase on the Capitol steps...


/Hi buzz!

45 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:20:36pm

re: #9 Last Mohican

What a nice, well-written email. Charles, you well deserve the compliment.

I echo this Obama supporter's sentiment that the health care bills need to be dissected, analyzed, and honestly discussed. I wish that Mr. Obama and the Democratic leadership felt the same way. And I wish the Republican leadership could come up with a unified rebuttal other than "Death Panels!"

Wish I had more than one upding.

46 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:20:37pm
47 ladycatnip  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:21:37pm

#40 The Curmudgeon

You want hate mail? How about this: Anyone in Congress who votes for a 1,000 page bill should automatically lose his job and his pension. Actually, the limit should be 100 pages. Even the budget should be broken down into small bills.

You forgot one: anyone in Congress who does not read the bills they vote on should lose their job.

48 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:22:08pm
49 amused  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:22:51pm

re: #37 Cannadian Club Akbar

I guess the question must be:
If Ryan can see that LGF is a resonable site, will he be able to get others to look? Will his friends just pee pee the thought of looking? Ryan, I wish you luck, open eyes and an open mind.

I probably stand pretty close to Ryan politically, and I visit LGF frequently. I just can't stay long because there's so much of the intertubes to visit.

50 irongrampa  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:23:04pm

re: #46 buzzsawmonkey

I think you could also say the "feverish rhetoric" is a collective WTF from the general public--with more accuracy.

51 The Curmudgeon  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:23:14pm

re: #47 ladycatnip

#40 The Curmudgeon

You forgot one: anyone in Congress who does not read the bills they vote on should lose their job.

Who cares if they read it? They're all nuts anyway. The important thing is that we get to read it.

52 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:25:15pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

Democracy is plenty safe however the fever pitch of right wing rhetoric is very dangerous. I really don't think we've seen anything like this in recent history.

If you're talking about the fever pitch of right-wing rhetoric about the healthcare bill, you are correct we haven't seen this before, because the healthcare bill is is new, it's now, it's unique, and no one who should have read it seems to have read it.

But I think we saw plenty of fevered rhetoric from the left in recent memory.

53 ladycatnip  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:25:55pm

#35 windhorse

“We are God's partners in matters of life and death.”
just about the most arrogant thing I have heard in awhile...

Here's the rub - the right has grave (no pun intended) concerns about matters of life and death, then The Won comes out with this assinine quip and no wonder the right gets their dander up - he's just fanning the flames.

54 irongrampa  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:26:35pm

re: #52 reine.de.tout

Yeah, like 8 years worth.

55 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:27:05pm

re: #35 windhorse

“We are God's partners in matters of life and death.”

just about the most arrogant thing I have heard in awhile...

And it shows extreme arrogance toward God as well. It is the height of hubris for a person to call himself "God's partner" on any matter.

56 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:27:45pm

re: #52 reine.de.tout

If you're talking about the fever pitch of right-wing rhetoric about the healthcare bill, you are correct we haven't seen this before, because the healthcare bill is is new, it's now, it's unique, and no one who should have read it seems to have read it.

But I think we saw plenty of fevered rhetoric from the left in recent memory.

57 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:28:58pm

re: #53 ladycatnip

#35 windhorse

Here's the rub - the right has grave (no pun intended) concerns about matters of life and death, then The Won comes out with this assinine quip and no wonder the right gets their dander up - he's just fanning the flames.

Indeed. He's trying to speak to relious people in their own language, but he just comes across more arrogant and clueless than ever.

58 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:32:40pm

re: #52 reine.de.tout
Back in the 80's we had the militias, they were dangerous and we ended up with Waco, Ruby ridge and Oklahoma city bombing. What's different now is that the militias are now mainstreamed. They participate in the Tea Party and Healthcare protests. Fox news and Republican politicians spew conspiracy theories about DHS, FEMA, Death Panels and the end of Democracy. This hasn't been the case in the past. The crazy rhetoric is coming from much higher up in the hierarchy that it has in the past.

59 ladycatnip  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:34:18pm

#52 reine. de.tout

But I think we saw plenty of fevered rhetoric from the left in recent memory.

We sure did; that's sop for the moonbats and what we've all come to expect. Normally in the past the average conservative American kept their head down, nose to the grindstone - the major concerns being providing for the family, paying bills and taxes. There was no time to protest, carry signs etc.,

I've never seen such an across-the-board response to this health care scam as I've seen in these TH meetings. The opposition caught the left by total surprise - which I think is a good thing. The reps wouldn't listen to reasoned debate or arguments, because their agenda trumps all. I hope they're listening now.

60 WindHorse  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:35:16pm

every month we don't have an economic recovery package, 500-million Americans uh-lose-uh-their jobs...


61 marksstudio  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:35:23pm

Ryan hit it right on the head.

But oh man, it appears that deep down I'm shallow, cause' I hit LGF for the Keith Jarrett and Miles Davis stuff.

I'm gonna go read something.

62 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:35:36pm

re: #58 Killgore Trout

...and showing up to political protests with loaded weapons. We also has a whole slew of town halls cancelled because of death threats. I just don't recall seeing this stuff before.

63 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:36:22pm

re: #59 ladycatnip

#52 reine. de.tout

We sure did; that's sop for the moonbats and what we've all come to expect. Normally in the past the average conservative American kept their head down, nose to the grindstone - the major concerns being providing for the family, paying bills and taxes. There was no time to protest, carry signs etc.,

I've never seen such an across-the-board response to this health care scam as I've seen in these TH meetings. The opposition caught the left by total surprise - which I think is a good thing. The reps wouldn't listen to reasoned debate or arguments, because their agenda trumps all. I hope they're listening now.

They hear us, but I'm not sure if they're listening. Our side ran some TV ads this weekend, we'll see if those help move the dials our way.

64 charlesincharge  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:37:51pm

re: #15 Last Mohican

Of course we have!

Zombie = hwmbi (he who must be ignored).
Pictures fake, fotoshop!
/

65 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:38:17pm
66 Millicent Islam  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:39:02pm

What a terrific email! That really made me happy.

I'm on a mission to get more on the left to read here, personally. And it must be really nice for Charles to get some appreciative mail once in a while!

67 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:39:29pm

re: #65 buzzsawmonkey

Oh, yes, there's some crazy crap out there. But you're using only half of the binoculars, unfortunately.

I've been hearing the same kind of wacko stuff from the Left for forty years--imminent concentration camps, targeting of protesters, yadda yadda. And given Troofer Congressmen like Jim McDermott, Dennis Kucinich--he ran for President, remember?--Barbara Lee, Maxine Waters, John Conyers, the lovely and fortunately now out of office Cynthia McKinney, etc., etc., can you really tell me with a straight face that the Republicans/right have somehow done anything except finally manage to approach--merely approach--the Democrats in institutionalized lunacy?

I don't think so.

Quite Concur.

68 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:42:56pm

re: #65 buzzsawmonkey

We've seen a 400% increase in threats to the president.

69 Danny  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:44:53pm

Does this mean that I should be nice to a democrat now? Other than my wife, that is.

70 charlesincharge  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:45:43pm

re: #28 windhorse

Who said this?

"UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. ... the UPS and FED EX are doing great, but it's the United States Postal that's in bad shape!"

And this, my friends, is an argument FOR why we should turn health care over to the government?

Can anyone explain what I have missed here?

You missed nothing. The person who said this has no idea how America functions. Profit is not a cost.It is what keeps you focused on the job at hand.

71 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:46:46pm
72 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:48:34pm

re: #68 Killgore Trout

We've seen a 400% increase in threats to the president.

True, but I doubt that the right would engage in a "Days of Rage" riot like Obama's buddy Bill Ayers did. The greater danger is from small groups of loons. The best antidote is to remind everyone (even the Paulians) that we will all lose if there is violence. Confrontation may be needed, but the utmost care must be taken to avoid people getting hurt or killed.

73 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:50:27pm

Ryan is 100% correct here: "when all is said and done much of this comes down to a political philosophy on leadership and role of government and not a clear right or wrong"

74 Edgesitter  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 4:57:57pm

Anything that Congress exempts itself from, cannot be good for me.

75 astronmr20  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 5:06:20pm

Ryan,

If you did your due diligence, you wouldn't have voted for this assclown.

There. Hows that for discourse?

76 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 5:11:02pm

Ryan-

When Obama told Joe the Plumber last year that he wanted to redistribute the nation's wealth, did you have any concerns?

77 David Simon  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 5:17:10pm
I am definitely still in the information gathering stage on healthcare reform.

Hmm. Then how does he explain this conclusion:

I don’t know that my mind will be changed

Uh, Ryan, if you're in the "information gathering stage," why is your mind made up?" Oh wait:

when all is said and done much of this comes down to a political philosophy on leadership and role of government and not a clear right or wrong

There we go. It always comes down to ideology, doesn't it? Sorry, but "Ryan" is a poseur trying to strike at what he thinks is a soft, centrist underbelly.

78 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 5:23:41pm

You guys seem angry.

79 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 5:28:33pm

re: #78 Killgore Trout

You guys seem angry.

and unnecessarily petty.

80 mpw280  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 5:30:03pm

I am sure there were more than enough death threats against Bush, its just they didn't cancel stuff because of it. Lefties called for Bush's death anytime more than 20 of them got together, but events didn't get canceled because of it. You still see death threats against Bush at lefty rallies but it draws a ho hum from the press. It all depends on how the "press" views the death threats: Bush-Ho Hum maybe it will happen and then we will really have something to report. Obama-OH MY GOD someone threatened the one and what are we gonna do about it SMEAR SMEAR SMEAR and defend him to our last penny (which can't come too soon) call anyone who calls for Obama to die a racist anti-American low life swine and ridicule as astroturf anyone who opposes the half baked policies of the ONE. mpw

81 shortshrift  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 5:34:40pm

re: #73 MrPaulRevere

Ryan is 100% correct here: "when all is said and done much of this comes down to a political philosophy on leadership and role of government and not a clear right or wrong"

Ryan's statement is 100% nonsense. "When all is said and done" is the end of politics. I hope that a leader with the wrong political philosophy of the role of government will not be in power at that end-of-history moment.

82 Icculus  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 5:55:12pm

If this had gone unsigned i would have bet good money it was written by a woman. Ryan writes like a girl. Also, 'he' makes it clear that there's no taking nationalized healthcare away from the liberals, as it's their ultimate brass ring. Barry will sign anything that Pelosi & Reid send across his desk with the word "Health" on it at this point, or the leftist fringe will savage the lot of them.

83 Grand Poobah  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 5:55:36pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

Democracy is plenty safe however the fever pitch of right wing rhetoric is very dangerous. I really don't think we've seen anything like this in recent history.

Well, I'd say we're not a democracy, we're a Republic...and yes, it is very threatened by all this raving by both sides.

What we really need to examine is the constitutionality of public health care: it's making you pay for insurance you don't necessarily want. That's a racket and should be struck down as illegal.

Simple as that Ryan, let's apply a little love of liberty and common sense to grandiose ideas that failed miserably in other countries.

84 ShanghaiEd  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 5:57:32pm

Wow! Best testimonial I could imagine, for any political website, in this day and age:

...the culture you’ve established is that the preposterous wolf-crying is not welcome.

Kudos to Charles, Stinky, et al!

85 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 6:01:38pm

re: #81 shortshrift

I interpreted Ryan's statement to mean 'its all politics', its not about what works or what is right or wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong there champ.

86 muddywood  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 6:11:06pm

Ryan, I submit that any Government Healthcare Plan that EXCLUDES congress is a bad bill for the rest of us.

If it's not good enough for them and their families, it's not good enough for you and me.

End of discussion.

87 mich-again  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 6:21:38pm

Any sensible discussion about making health care more available has to eventually gravitate to figuring out ways to increase the supply of health care services and the best way to do that is to remove the impediments to efficiency and profits. In short, we need half as many lawyers and twice as many doctors. Problem solved.

88 Teh Flowah  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 6:24:26pm

re: #8 neoconundrum

Charles,

You're getting compliments from the Left! What's that all about?;)

Clearly, he has returned to his roots and can no longer be trusted.

BURN HIM.

89 Millicent Islam  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 6:40:51pm

re: #82 Icculus

If this had gone unsigned i would have bet good money it was written by a woman. Ryan writes like a girl.

Yes. It's thoughtful, intelligent and informed.

Clearly the work of a girl.

90 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 8:08:05pm
91 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 8:10:41pm

re: #90 Ayatrollah

I suspect you won't have a choice quite soon now.

92 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 8:15:01pm
93 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 8:19:32pm
94 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 8:21:30pm

Bye now! Have fun storming the castle.

95 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 8:21:41pm

re: #92 Ayatrollah

Seems to be a pattern here that your sentiment of #90 often times results in the big stick being wielded. That's all.

96 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 8:22:14pm

Dang! I couldn't even post my reply in time!

97 Aye Pod  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 8:30:32pm
I absolutely want to see detailed, honest, nuanced questions asked and answered on healthcare. The legislation needs to be dissected, analyzed, and honestly discussed. And LGF is the only place I’ve found where people who have tough questions and principled disagreements with Obama’s plan are put front and center while the shrieking trolls are relegated to the bench.

I don’t know that my mind will be changed — when all is said and done much of this comes down to a political philosophy on leadership and role of government and not a clear right or wrong — and I am certainly not here to attempt to change anyone’s mind, but there is no question I will have a much better sense of the whole of the issue by reading LGF.

Well said, Ryan.

98 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 8:35:20pm

OK Charles -

You are Honest and Fair. Moreso than I am. Glad someone on the "other side" sees and appreciates this. With grace, this is where the "discussion" might begin. I STILL believe in "Trust but/and Verify" - AND - they are YET still our countrymen, by birth if NOT attitude.
We already have had one Civil War - We NEED NOT Another.
That is all - for now.

-S-

99 keithgabryelski  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 8:47:24pm

version 2.0 of the health care questions is posted:
[Link: sites.google.com...]

I'm now concentrating on filling in the questions that are answered, so we can concentrate on asking those questions that are getting dodged.

If you notice a question that is on the document that you know was answered (even if the answer was a dodge -- well, especially if it was dodged) I would like a link to it so I can record it.

100 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 9:04:43pm

It seems rationality is in demand. That's comforting.

101 Silvergirl  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 9:07:20pm

re: #89 iceweasel

Yes. It's thoughtful, intelligent and informed.

Clearly the work of a girl.


Beware the venomous harridans!

Good stuff!

"I do love little kittens. They're so soft and furry."

102 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 9:25:08pm
103 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 9:28:18pm

re: #102 Korla Pundit

If you want to advocate lying and cheating for political gain, do it at your own blog. I'm tried of seeing this crap at mine.

104 jaybird  Sun, Aug 23, 2009 9:47:32pm

I'm sorry, and call me closed-minded if you want, but I do NOT care to hear or discuss nor have anybody else hear or discuss ANY health care options where government takes it over. That's a nonstarter from jump.

105 neoconundrum  Mon, Aug 24, 2009 4:42:14am

Teh Flowah
8/23/09 6:24:26 pm reply quote 0downupreport

re: #8 neoconundrum

Charles,

You're getting compliments from the Left! What's that all about?;)

Clearly, he has returned to his roots and can no longer be trusted.

BURN HIM.

Teh Flowah,

Uh, no thanks. I have the greatest respect for Charles. He's a great spokesperson for America and for Israel. I fully understand his concern for the meltdown of the Republican Party and some of their odd positions. The direction Obama has taken the US thus far is the best way to unite the conservatives again. There have always been differences within each political party, and the way things are going, we'll be back again soon. I would like to get some new leaders into the Republican party. Right now my, favorite is Mitt Romney.

My favorite cartoonist: Ramirez
[Link: www.ibdeditorials.com...]

106 Land Shark  Mon, Aug 24, 2009 8:43:31am

Ryan's e-mail is a good one, but he doesn't deal with the most intellectually dishonest player in the entire health care debate, President Obama. From what I've seen, the President has little idea what's in the bill, and he's made every attempt to ram this thing through without giving the people sufficient time to study it. He's lied about his intentions, the eventual real costs and tried to instill at atmosphere of panic and fear to rush it through. To hear him talk about "reasoned debate" is laughable. How 'bout a little honesty on your part, Barrack? Take the beam out of your own eye, you fraud!

In my opinion the radical health care reform he and the Democrats propose is un-necessary. This is all about imposing a socialist type system where it isn't needed. Most Americans don't see it as the most pressing issue these days. This is about Obama's considerable ego, pure and simple. We have some of the most advanced medical research in the world, and people from around the world come here for treatment. It's far from perfect, but it isn't this disaster area Obama and his people want to make it out to be. And having someone like Obama leading this thing, with his demonstrated problems articulating the truth, his ego and the blind cult of personality by his minions, inspires no confidence in me. While he's obviously not the only one in this thing who has lied, in my opinion he has been the biggest liar of them all. Ultimately, the real problem I have with the health care debate is Obama.

107 greyconservative  Mon, Aug 24, 2009 3:56:43pm

87 mich-again  
8/23/09 6:21:38 pm
Any sensible discussion about making health care more available has to eventually gravitate to figuring out ways to increase the supply of health care services and the best way to do that is to remove the impediments to efficiency and profits. In short, we need half as many lawyers and twice as many doctors. Problem solved.

FINALLY!! Well said!


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 Frank says:

You can tell what they think of our music by the places we are forced to play it in. This looks like a good spot for a livestock show. -- April 1968, Chicago, Mothers of Invention open for Cream