Rathergate: Mapes Knew Bush Volunteered for Vietnam

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Bernard Goldberg points out a fact that many people missed in the controversy over the “Rathergate” fraudulent memos: Rather’s producer, Mary Mapes, knew all along that the premise of the report was false.

Until now, the controversy over the Rather/Mapes story has centered almost entirely on one issue: the legitimacy of the documents – a very important issue, indeed. But it turns out that there was another very important issue, one that goes to the very heart of what the story was about – and one that has gone virtually unnoticed. This is it: Mary Mapes knew before she put the story on the air that George W. Bush, the alleged slacker, had in fact volunteered to go to Vietnam.

Who says? The outside panel CBS brought into to get to the bottom of the so-called “Rathergate” mess says. I recently re-examined the panel’s report after a source, Deep Throat style, told me to “Go to page 130.” When I did, here’s the startling piece of information I found:

Mapes had information prior to the airing of the September 8 [2004] Segment that President Bush, while in the TexANG [Texas Air National Guard] did volunteer for service in Vietnam but was turned down in favor of more experienced pilots. For example, a flight instructor who served in the TexANG with Lieutenant Bush advised Mapes in 1999 that Lieutenant Bush “did want to go to Vietnam but others went first.” Similarly, several others advised Mapes in 1999, and again in 2004 before September 8, that Lieutenant Bush had volunteered to go to Vietnam but did not have enough flight hours to qualify.

This comes as no surprise, because the entire enterprise absolutely reeked of dishonesty, from the fake documents to the way Rather and CBS initially tried to cover it up and/or claim the documents were genuine.

It does raise an interesting question, though: since Mapes was apparently willing to cover up what she knew about Bush volunteering for Vietnam, did she also know all along that the documents were frauds? Most people have assumed that Mapes and CBS were tricked into airing the memos — but what if it was deliberate?

One of the really striking things about the Rathergate incident is how little curiosity the rest of the media had when it came to finding out the truth of what happened — completely uninterested in finding out the source of the documents, and completely uninterested in examining how the obviously phony memos could have even gotten onto 60 Minutes in the first place.

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813 comments
1 livefreeor die  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:28:12am

Bitch.

2 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:28:32am

Wondering when this was coming.

3 Lee Coller  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:29:53am

No throbbing memo?

4 BlueCanuck  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:30:08am

Ooooh, we need the throbbing memo again.

/just rub it into their faces.

5 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:30:11am

Fake but accurate fake!

6 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:30:14am

While I'm sure it will make little difference, to all those people who were screaming about how unAmerican Bush was... take this and shove it in your blowholes.

7 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:30:19am

There are way too many people who believe that lying in defense of their ideals is okay.

It isn't. Not for liberal ideals, not for religious ideals.

8 drcordell  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:31:15am

Not sure why Goldberg is claiming that any of this is "new information." All of this was covered by the Washington Post back in 1999. Goldberg just knows that bashing CBS and 60 minutes as a former employee guarantees him an income from Fox News for the rest of his life. Snooze.

WaPo Story

9 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:31:27am

The dishonesty is astonishing. It just won't stop, either.

The press didn't do its job, and it continues to fail. It's become so partisan that it lies regularly, and doesn't even realize it's doing so.

10 Wendya  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:32:31am

re: #8 drcordell

Not sure why Goldberg is claiming that any of this is "new information."

How widely covered was it?

11 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:32:51am

So when do we get the news that the weapons of mass destruction were smuggled out to Syria?

12 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:34:13am

re: #8 drcordell

Not sure why Goldberg is claiming that any of this is "new information." All of this was covered by the Washington Post back in 1999. Goldberg just knows that bashing CBS and 60 minutes as a former employee guarantees him an income from Fox News for the rest of his life. Snooze.

WaPo Story

The "new information" is not that Bush volunteered for Vietnam - it's that Mapes was aware of this while preparing her fraudulent report.

13 NukeAtomrod  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:34:23am

I wish this revelation would make a difference... but, experience tells me it won't.

14 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:34:31am

re: #8 drcordell


Really?

As he drifted, Bush struggled with his own feelings about Vietnam and the turmoil he saw around him in America. Over time, he now says, he became disillusioned with the war, even as he believed that he should support the government that waged it. "In a sense he was trying to remain a centrist in a time when there wasn't anything left at the center," said Craig Stapleton, who is married to Bush's cousin and has been a confidant of Bush's for 25 years. "All of the sudden everybody moves and you're still standing in the center. He didn't dodge the military. But he didn't volunteer to go to Vietnam and get killed, either."

Don't be dishonest with us here.

15 jcm  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:34:36am

They also had to have known that during GWB's TANG service he exceeded his required duty time. Over 6 years he accumulated 952 points when he need 50 a year or 300. The last year, 72', he had 52 points.

16 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:35:02am

re: #11 DaddyG

So when do we get the news that the weapons of mass destruction were smuggled out to Syria?

When it benefits the democrats in power.

17 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:35:20am
18 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:35:25am

re: #8 drcordell

Except that Mapes, in 2004, was claiming Bush did everything in his power to avoid service in Viet Nam, and - as you point out - the opposite was known in 1999.

That's why this story is important.

19 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:36:19am

Well, it goes to the nature of reporting in general, and the expose/investigative reporting area in particular. Who's going to spend time and resources to check up on stories run by the competitor when you've got more stories just ahead.

Even when the Rathergate broke and it was all too obvious that it was a fraud and fake, the rest of the media just didn't care, and then obfuscated and made the issue one that avoided the key issue: that CBS was more than willing to throw the 2004 election by use of a fraudulent story.

20 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:37:16am

re: #7 EmmmieG

There are way too many people who believe that lying in defense of their ideals is okay.

It isn't. Not for liberal ideals, not for religious ideals.

...and especially not for journalists.

There was a time in this country when journalist and journalism didn't embrace this cloak of non-partisanship. In fact, at the founding of this country, the newspapers and periodicals were quite proudly partisan. Perhaps, it's best that we return to those days so that the reader can better judge the validity or point-of-view of the article that they're reading.

Whatever integrity they claim to have now, seems to have entirely eroded.

21 realwest  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:37:16am

Charles - you stated: "It does raise an interesting question, though: since Mapes was apparently willing to cover up what she knew about Bush volunteering for Vietnam, did she also know all along that the documents were frauds? Most people have assumed that Mapes and CBS were tricked into airing the memos — but what if it was deliberate?".
And to be perfectly candid here, I always thought they knew they were doing a fake story - 5 weeks before the election, to try to throw the election to Kerry.
And who knows? If not for you digging out the truth of that forged memo, they might have succeeded.
As to why the rest of the MSM paid so little attention to the story, one COULD speculate that they were disappointed that CBS didn't pull it off - perhaps explaining their incredibly one-sided support of candidate Obama four years later.

22 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:37:28am

re: #11 DaddyG

So when do we get the news that the weapons of mass destruction were smuggled out to Syria?

When one of them goes off in Gaza or the West Bank and the media can scream about how Bush let them be smuggled out of Iraq.

23 jcm  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:38:12am

re: #8 drcordell

Not sure why Goldberg is claiming that any of this is "new information." All of this was covered by the Washington Post back in 1999. Goldberg just knows that bashing CBS and 60 minutes as a former employee guarantees him an income from Fox News for the rest of his life. Snooze.

WaPo Story

Which was more dangerous:
Floating around in a Swift Boat in 'Nam.
Or driving a F-102 which had the nickname "Lawn Dart?"

24 blangwort  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:38:30am

You know, I really don't have a problem with a news organization squelching this report. I have a problem with that news organization claiming to be impartial. The same thing goes for the caliber of evidence. Prior to the "throbber" the decision to report this was a judgment call.

The shaky ground under CBS started when they failed to report the "throbber" and then claimed to be impartial. I'm sorry, if you believe any news organization is "impartial" I have this really neat old bridge I'd like to sell you.

News organizations are biased. Get used to it.

25 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:38:36am

Mapes and Rather.
What a sad pair.

26 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:38:50am

re: #17 buzzsawmonkey

That will come out right after the announcement of Iran's first successful nuclear test.

Not if Israel hits the smuggled WMD first; then we'll hear it was an Iraqi baby milk factory hidden to keep the Americans from destroying it.

27 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:40:11am

re: #8 drcordell

Not sure why Goldberg is claiming that any of this is "new information." All of this was covered by the Washington Post back in 1999. Goldberg just knows that bashing CBS and 60 minutes as a former employee guarantees him an income from Fox News for the rest of his life. Snooze.

WaPo Story

You don't think that little nugget of information should have been included in a piece that tried to paint Bush as some kind of privileged draft-dodger? It's the fact that this was information that was verified from multiple sources, and it was left out of the Mapes/Rather report that is so damning for CBS - or at least it should be.

28 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:40:16am

re: #8 drcordell

Not sure why Goldberg is claiming that any of this is "new information." All of this was covered by the Washington Post back in 1999. Goldberg just knows that bashing CBS and 60 minutes as a former employee guarantees him an income from Fox News for the rest of his life. Snooze.

WaPo Story

Of course whatever your job is, you do it for free, right? Because you're altruistic no doubt.
/

29 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:40:26am

re: #24 blangwort

You know, I really don't have a problem with a news organization squelching this report. I have a problem with that news organization claiming to be impartial. The same thing goes for the caliber of evidence. Prior to the "throbber" the decision to report this was a judgment call.

The shaky ground under CBS started when they failed to report the "throbber" and then claimed to be impartial. I'm sorry, if you believe any news organization is "impartial" I have this really neat old bridge I'd like to sell you.

News organizations are biased. Get used to it.

And we can keep pointing it out, get use to that!

30 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:40:31am

Now that Bush is no longer POTUS perhaps he can sue Mapes and Rather into the dust for libel?

31 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:40:40am

The media isn't the only one not interested in deep self-reflection. Denial is not just for individuals anymore, but entire groups, including the media.

32 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:40:59am

re: #8 drcordell

Not sure why Goldberg is claiming that any of this is "new information." All of this was covered by the Washington Post back in 1999. Goldberg just knows that bashing CBS and 60 minutes as a former employee guarantees him an income from Fox News for the rest of his life. Snooze.

WaPo Story

Yawn.

33 Rexatosis  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:41:37am

Why let facts get in the way of the "story"? Unfortunately Journalism today is about the "story frame" the reporter is working driving what "facts" are looked at rather than the facts driving the story.

34 Last Mohican  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:41:44am

re: #23 jcm

Which was more dangerous:
Floating around in a Swift Boat in 'Nam.
Or driving a F-102 which had the nickname "Lawn Dart?"

I've never done either, but I'm guessing the casualty rates were much higher on the swift boats, where there were people popping out of the jungle shooting rifles. For example, IIRC, John Kerry was actually wounded in action one of the three times when he was awarded a Purple Heart.

35 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:41:48am

Please don't feed the trolls.

36 jcm  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:42:27am

Mary Mapes' history in Seattle, WA.

The Producer
Meet Mary Mapes, the crusading journalist behind CBS's current troubles.

Former employees of KIRO, the CBS affiliate in Seattle where Ms. Mapes got her start in the 1980s, agree. Some told me that the seeds of CBS's current troubles may have been planted more than 15 years ago when Ms. Mapes was a hard-charging producer at KIRO. Before she left Seattle to become a producer at Mr. Rather's "CBS Evening News," Ms. Mapes produced a sensational report on a killing of a drug suspect by police that rested on the shoulders of an unreliable source whose story collapsed under cross-examination. Sound familiar?
37 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:42:37am

re: #8 drcordell

Not sure why Goldberg is claiming that any of this is "new information." All of this was covered by the Washington Post back in 1999. Goldberg just knows that bashing CBS and 60 minutes as a former employee guarantees him an income from Fox News for the rest of his life. Snooze.

WaPo Story


You really are a piece of work. Bernard Goldberg doesn't need an income from FOX News. He is a best selling author and a correspondant for HBO's Real Sports. And I can tell you (as a former freelance producer at HBO Sports) that they pay REALLY well. You appear to be one of those people who leads with your chin. And as any boxer will tell you, that's a really good way to get your ass knocked out.

38 Cheesehead  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:42:43am

Perhaps Mapes didn't completely comprehend the difficult meaning of the term...volunteered. Or maybe she's just another left-wing media whore. Hmmm...I wonder which it is.

39 drcordell  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:43:07am

re: #12 Charles

The "new information" is not that Bush volunteered for Vietnam - it's that Mapes was aware of this while preparing her fraudulent report.

I'm not sure that conclusion is as conclusive as Goldberg would like it to be. The fact that Bush "volunteered" for a unit that had limited openings, flying a plane that was soon to be discontinued from combat doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't avoiding combat. Volunteering for an assignment you know you have little chance of receiving surely isn't draft dodging, but it's not signing up for active duty either.

Frankly at this point my answer is "who gives a fuck?" Mapes and Rather had their careers destroyed, Bush was President for 8 years, and Fox News has succeeded in politicizing the media beyond Rupert Murdoch's wildest dreams. Everybody wins!

40 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:43:33am
41 TheMatrix31  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:44:15am

re: #37 _RememberTonyC

You appear to be one of those people who leads with your chin. And as any boxer will tell you, that's a really good way to get your ass knocked out.

Only one way to find out!

42 erp  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:44:18am

I read about this at the time, but don't remember where. Also mentioned was the fact the as the son of career diplomat, Bush wouldn't have seen combat anyway.

43 Flyovercountry  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:44:30am

Why would any of this surprise anyone. This story was never about presenting facts on a news story. This was always about 60 Minutes attempting to sway an election. Whatever the facts were or weren't was secondary to the template. The MSM is agenda driven.

44 drcordell  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:44:30am

re: #23 jcm

Which was more dangerous:
Floating around in a Swift Boat in 'Nam.
Or driving a F-102 which had the nickname "Lawn Dart?"

Yeah... "floating around" is a great way to describe infantry combat in Vietnam. Christ you chickenhawks are shameless.

45 realwest  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:45:08am

Well it's a shame that this thread has been highjacked by drcordell as I thought Charles asked some significant and important questions at the lead in to this thread.
My response is at #21 above.
And since I have ZERO interest in drcordell or what he "thinks" I'm outta here for lunch.

Hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.

And thanks, again, Charles, for exposing this fraud on the part of CBS, 60 Minutes, Rather and Mapes.

46 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:45:11am

re: #42 erp

I read about this at the time, but don't remember where. Also mentioned was the fact the as the son of career diplomat, Bush wouldn't have seen combat anyway.

Why?

47 midwestgak  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:45:17am

Don Hewitt have known who knew what and when.

48 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:45:26am

I just don't appreciate how this story further alienated the American people from our watchmen. We the People count on the press to give us information about our government, and when the press fails us, we have no one.

This is very damaging to our political discourse as the People feel the press is already biased. We simply have to have faith in the media to guard against government corruption, and when the press fails us, they fail the country, and our Founders. It's shameful.

49 Last Mohican  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:45:27am

Excuse me, everyone. I was just wondering if anyone could suggest how I might use this Marla Mapes thread to say something negative about Fox News, and/or Rupert Murdoch. I like to do that whenever I can. Anyone have any ideas?

50 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:45:30am

re: #39 drcordell

Frankly at this point my answer is "who gives a fuck?"

Now that you're proven wrong you don't give a fuck. Got it.

51 drcordell  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:45:35am

re: #37 _RememberTonyC

You really are a piece of work. Bernard Goldberg doesn't need an income from FOX News. He is a best selling author and a correspondant for HBO's Real Sports. And I can tell you (as a former freelance producer at HBO Sports) that they pay REALLY well. You appear to be one of those people who leads with your chin. And as any boxer will tell you, that's a really good way to get your ass knocked out.

Yes, nobody would possibly accept easy money for doing nothing but appearing on TV and bashing your former employer. How naive of me to assume otherwise.

52 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:45:46am

re: #39 drcordell

I'm not sure that conclusion is as conclusive as Goldberg would like it to be. The fact that Bush "volunteered" for a unit that had limited openings, flying a plane that was soon to be discontinued from combat doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't avoiding combat. Volunteering for an assignment you know you have little chance of receiving surely isn't draft dodging, but it's not signing up for active duty either.

Frankly at this point my answer is "who gives a fuck?" Mapes and Rather had their careers destroyed, Bush was President for 8 years, and Fox News has succeeded in politicizing the media beyond Rupert Murdoch's wildest dreams. Everybody wins!

Obviously you do, or else you wouldn't have anything to say about it, twice now. So, you done not giving a fuck, or would you like to not give a fuck a little more?

53 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:47:17am

re: #39 drcordell


Frankly at this point my answer is "who gives a fuck?" Mapes and Rather had their careers destroyed, Bush was President for 8 years, and Fox News has succeeded in politicizing the media beyond Rupert Murdoch's wildest dreams. Everybody wins!

Are you really that thick? Are you really missing the big, pink elephant in the room?

54 drcordell  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:47:18am

re: #52 Walter L. Newton

Obviously you do, or else you wouldn't have anything to say about it, twice now. So, you done not giving a fuck, or would you like to not give a fuck a little more?

Mmmm snarky. Go read what I wrote. I simply said that all of this was seemingly covered in 1999 by the WaPo, and then responded to a follow-up from Charles. What's your problem?

55 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:47:27am

re: #49 Last Mohican

Excuse me, everyone. I was just wondering if anyone could suggest how I might use this Marla Mapes thread to say something negative about Fox News, and/or Rupert Murdoch. I like to do that whenever I can. Anyone have any ideas?

You could say that BatBoy is their illegitimate child.

56 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:47:29am

re: #51 drcordell

Yes, nobody would possibly accept easy money for doing nothing but appearing on TV and bashing your former employer. How naive of me to assume otherwise.

you assume that everyone is as feckless and cynical as you are. here's a newsflash ... most people are not.

57 TheMatrix31  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:47:43am

re: #49 Last Mohican

Excuse me, everyone. I was just wondering if anyone could suggest how I might use this Marla Mapes thread to say something negative about Fox News, and/or Rupert Murdoch. I like to do that whenever I can. Anyone have any ideas?

Just go for it.

Foxnewsevilbeckhannityliescorruptmurdochburtonchimpbushitleroreillyoiliraq!

See how easy it is?

58 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:47:58am

re: #39 drcordell

I see some merit to what you said.

Personally, I think (and this is wild speculation, only an hypothesis, that could be wrong) that whatever connections the Bush family had saw to it that W. would by e put in a position where it was unlikely that he would go. The fact that his plane was due to be decommissioned very soon stands out.

However, I think W. knew this and honestly wanted to go. I think he probably did see it as his duty to try. However, he was put in a position by whatever connections that prevented this.

59 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:48:05am

re: #39 drcordell

Fox News has succeeded in politicizing the media beyond Rupert Murdoch's wildest dreams.

Give 60 Minutes their due, yo. The press politicized themselves long before this report was aired. I recall Lewinsky was placed in the circular file and only became an issue because of Matt Drudge. If that wasn't political, what is?

60 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:48:26am

re: #39 drcordell

I'm not sure that conclusion is as conclusive as Goldberg would like it to be. The fact that Bush "volunteered" for a unit that had limited openings, flying a plane that was soon to be discontinued from combat doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't avoiding combat. Volunteering for an assignment you know you have little chance of receiving surely isn't draft dodging, but it's not signing up for active duty either.

Even if Bush's knew he wouldn't be accepted, Mapes & Rather, had they been responsible journalists, should have disclosed the fact he volunteered. Period.

61 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:49:03am

re: #44 drcordell

Yeah... "floating around" is a great way to describe infantry combat in Vietnam. Christ you chickenhawks are shameless.

Kerry was in the US Navy.

62 jcm  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:49:13am

re: #34 Last Mohican

I've never done either, but I'm guessing the casualty rates were much higher on the swift boats, where there were people popping out of the jungle shooting rifles. For example, IIRC, John Kerry was actually wounded in action one of the three times when he was awarded a Purple Heart.

The Real Facts About Service in Vietnam

Swift Boat crews got shot at a lot, but suffered fewer casualties than your average half a dozen riflemen. The 17 Coast Guard Swift Boats, for example, reported one per 600,000 miles of patrolling (their boats covered about 4,100 miles a month on patrol.) Navy Swift Boats took more fire, but not a whole lot more. Bush flew the F-102 fighter, one of the more dangerous aircraft to fly during the 1960s (one fatal accident per 40,000 flight hours). Bush took on a one percent chance of getting killed by volunteering for flight training in such an aircraft. It would have been much safer to enlist and get a job maintaining the F-102.


Kerry spent six months on boat...

63 Last Mohican  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:49:17am

re: #39 drcordell

Frankly at this point my answer is "who gives a fuck?" Mapes and Rather had their careers destroyed, Bush was President for 8 years, and Fox News has succeeded in politicizing the media beyond Rupert Murdoch's wildest dreams. Everybody wins!

Got it. CBS deliberately published what they knew to be a lie, in a deliberate attempt to change the outcome of a presidential election. But the fault lies with Fox News, for "politicizing the media."

64 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:49:26am

re: #61 lawhawk

Kerry was in the US Navy.

Don't confuse him with facts.

65 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:49:32am

Speaking of Bill O'Reilly, please note that he came out on Dan Rather's side during the scandal.

66 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:49:36am

re: #48 Sharmuta

I just don't appreciate how this story further alienated the American people from our watchmen. We the People count on the press to give us information about our government, and when the press fails us, we have no one.

This is very damaging to our political discourse as the People feel the press is already biased. We simply have to have faith in the media to guard against government corruption, and when the press fails us, they fail the country, and our Founders. It's shameful.

The press, far from being watchdogs, have become junkyard dogs for the Democratic Party.

67 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:50:27am

re: #54 drcordell

Mmmm snarky. Go read what I wrote. I simply said that all of this was seemingly covered in 1999 by the WaPo, and then responded to a follow-up from Charles. What's your problem?

LOL... I don't give a fuck. You?

68 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:50:37am

re: #57 TheMatrix31

Just go for it.

Foxnewsevilbeckhannityliescorruptmurdochburtonchim pbushitleroreillyoiliraq!

See how easy it is?


you forgot bushitlerhaliburtoncheneyliedpeopledied

69 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:50:45am

re: #65 Charles

Speaking of Bill O'Reilly, please note that he came out on Dan Rather's side during the scandal.

Sometimes he seems completely clueless.

70 realwest  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:51:06am

re: #44 drcordell

Yeah... "floating around" is a great way to describe infantry combat in Vietnam. Christ you chickenhawks are shameless.


Hadda come back for this one: this "chickenhawk" was in the Combat Infantry in Vietnam - where the fuck were you?
And Kerry was in the Riverene forces of the US Navy, a dangerous job indeed.

71 Rancher  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:51:20am
One of the really striking things about the Rathergate incident is how little curiosity the rest of the media had in finding out the truth of what happened. Completely uninterested in finding out the source of the documents, and completely uninterested in examining how the obviously phony memos could have even gotten onto 60 Minutes in the first place.

I'v always found this astounding given the enormity of what they were trying to do, influence a presidential election during wartime through fraudulent means..

72 drogheda  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:51:44am

re: #57 TheMatrix31

You appear to have paused for breath while spewing your breathless rant. You should work on that.

;P

73 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:51:44am

re: #23 jcm

Which was more dangerous:
Floating around in a Swift Boat in 'Nam.
Or driving a F-102 which had the nickname "Lawn Dart?"

I don't think we need to make that comparison. Like all the first generation supersonic fighters, the F-102 had some problems but its overall safety record was really pretty good, especially late in its service when Bush flew it. F-102s deployed to Vietnam in their designed air defense role but they were not heavily involved in combat. They were pressed into ground attack missions for which they had little capability but enemy planes rarely if ever came south. There were some losses (15 in 7 years) from ground fire and accidents, and one to a MiG-21 during a sweep over the north

74 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:51:56am

re: #58 LudwigVanQuixote

I think it's unfair to assume President Bush volunteered in the hopes he'd be told no. We certainly can't stop people from being cynical about it, but we don't know what was in his heart and mind at the time.

75 Lee Coller  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:51:57am

Anyone seen Nodrog and DrCordell together?

76 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:52:10am

re: #23 jcm

Which was more dangerous:
Floating around in a Swift Boat in 'Nam.
Or driving a F-102 which had the nickname "Lawn Dart?"

Respectfully, I think you are letting your hatred of Kerry allow you to wrongly and shamefully, disparage the service of men who did a very tough job on the boats in Vietnam.

I was born in the early seventies so I obviously wasn't there. However, it seems obvious to me that there would have been a threat hidden forces, snipers and rockets behind every single bush and tree along both sides of the river.

It seems to me that the men we sent on those boats had to face some serious shit.

Do not discount their service.

77 gymmom  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:52:48am

Everyday to my husband, I say (yell, really) " I hate the media with a passion." I don't get the local paper or the NYT anymore. I can't watch the news on TV without my blood pressure rising and the kids running to see what Mommy is yelling about now. The lack of any real journalism in this country is why we are in this mess. If I had any talents in that area I would devote my entire life to journalism. I HATE THE MEDIA. (Did I say that already?)

78 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:53:16am

re: #76 LudwigVanQuixote

I don't discount Kerry's service in the US Navy, or the time served while on patrol in the rivers and backwaters of Vietnam. It was a dangerous place, and fire could be received at any time. But to claim that Bush didn't want to go to Vietnam is for lack of a better term - BS.

79 TheMatrix31  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:53:52am

re: #68 _RememberTonyC

you forgot bushitlerhaliburtoncheneyliedpeopledied

Some of that's there ;)

80 Kragar  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:53:59am

re: #71 Rancher

I'v always found this astounding given the enormity of what they were trying to do, influence a presidential election during wartime through fraudulent means..

Makes you wonder what other lies they've peddled over the years with no one holding them accountable.

81 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:54:04am

re: #12 Charles

The "new information" is not that Bush volunteered for Vietnam - it's that Mapes was aware of this while preparing her fraudulent report.

Even that isn't new. I wrote this in 2005:

According to page 71 of the report, Mapes was told that then-Lieutenant Bush had volunteered for active duty in Vietnam but did not have enough flight hours to qualify. Astonishingly, this is a piece of information which I have never seen anywhere in the media, which CBS apparently decided to sit on. (This information is reinforced on the top of page 140, as multiple sources backed it up -- some of whom imparted this information to Mapes as far back as 1999.)

82 realwest  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:54:29am

re: #76 LudwigVanQuixote
Indeed, please see my #70 above.
The Navy's Riverene Forces faced some extremely dangerous missions MOST of the time.
But Kerry was still not in the Combat Infantry.

83 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:54:40am

re: #80 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Makes you wonder what other lies they've peddled over the years with no one holding them accountable.

Let's ask Dr. Cordell, he seems to know more about this subject than anyone.
/

84 drcordell  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:54:59am

re: #59 Sharmuta

Give 60 Minutes their due, yo. The press politicized themselves long before this report was aired. I recall Lewinsky was placed in the circular file and only became an issue because of Matt Drudge. If that wasn't political, what is?

How much media coverage do you remember of any other President's affairs? Perhaps George H. W. Bush's multi-year affair with Jennifer Fitzgerald? Up until Clinton the media let the President's personal life stay personal. It wasn't some "librul conspiracy" that was just the way it was. The 24-hour news cycle changed that. They "covered" for Clinton just like they covered for every other womanizing President in U.S. history, Dem or Republican.

85 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:56:03am

re: #80 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Makes you wonder what other lies they've peddled over the years with no one holding them accountable.

That would be the issue, isn't it? If they got caught this time, what other lies/half-truths/inaccurate statistics have they not been caught in?

86 jcm  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:56:05am

re: #76 LudwigVanQuixote

Respectfully, I think you are letting your hatred of Kerry allow you to wrongly and shamefully, disparage the service of men who did a very tough job on the boats in Vietnam.

I was born in the early seventies so I obviously wasn't there. However, it seems obvious to me that there would have been a threat hidden forces, snipers and rockets behind every single bush and tree along both sides of the river.

It seems to me that the men we sent on those boats had to face some serious shit.

Do not discount their service.

I'm not discounting the Swift Boat crews.

I do discount a traitor who violated by his own testimony his oath as an officer. Who put in for Purple Hearts for scratches and self inflicted wounds.

J F'n K is a smear on all the Swift Boaters who served honorably.

87 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:56:11am

re: #71 Rancher

I'v always found this astounding given the enormity of what they were trying to do, influence a presidential election during wartime through fraudulent means..

On the contrary, I find the media's lack of enthusiasm for digging into Rathergate confirmation of the fact that they are fellow traveler's in the overall deceit and bias of the industry. It's not like Rather and CBS were renegade outliers. They are the MFM.

88 realwest  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:56:17am

Well now that drcordell has not only moved the goalposts, he's changing or trying to change, the entire playing field, I am outta here.

89 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:56:36am

re: #84 drcordell

Were the other presidents involved in sexual harassment cases where they were committing perjury in the hopes of denying a fellow citizen their day in court?

90 Rancher  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:56:36am

re: #80 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Makes you wonder what other lies they've peddled over the years with no one holding them accountable.


With no internet to factcheck, with only three networks to compete, yes.

91 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:56:46am

re: #74 Sharmuta

I think it's unfair to assume President Bush volunteered in the hopes he'd be told no. We certainly can't stop people from being cynical about it, but we don't know what was in his heart and mind at the time.

I absolutely agree. It is also something that stands out that he would spend most of his time training on a plane that was slated for decommission. He certainly did not cut his own orders, but I do strongly suspect some family pull involved.

92 blangwort  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:57:20am

re: #40 buzzsawmonkey

"We choose! Your News! Get used to it!"

--reporters and editors protesting revelations from the Rather suit in front of courthouse

When I was a kid I used to listen to Radio Moscow on shortwave. This was during the cold war. At first, I used to laugh at their warped view of the world. And then, gradually, I realized that these people were serious about what they were saying. Then I listened to the BBC. And, with a mindset newly tuned to what propaganda sounds like, I found all sorts of interesting things that others would report that the BBC did not.

The point is that I've never stopped asking questions about the things people spout in front of a computer, a microphone or a camera.

We can and we should expose these hypocrisies. But do keep in mind that even for scrupulously honest reporting organizations, there are limits to objectivity. To claim otherwise is folly.

93 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:57:20am

re: #78 lawhawk

I don't discount Kerry's service in the US Navy, or the time served while on patrol in the rivers and backwaters of Vietnam. It was a dangerous place, and fire could be received at any time. But to claim that Bush didn't want to go to Vietnam is for lack of a better term - BS.

I don't claim that. I think he actually wanted to go.

94 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:57:57am

re: #90 Rancher

With no internet to factcheck, with only three networks to compete, yes.

"The Magna Carta was a FAKE..."

"Henry VII had SEVEN WIVES..."

/prescription ran out

95 Solomon2  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:58:01am

What struck me in this whole mess is that Mapes defended herself by saying there was nothing unusual with how CBS handled the story. Which implies that phony stories like Rathergate and Audigate were the rule, not the exception.

96 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:58:30am

re: #77 gymmom

Everyday to my husband, I say (yell, really) " I hate the media with a passion." I don't get the local paper or the NYT anymore. I can't watch the news on TV without my blood pressure rising and the kids running to see what Mommy is yelling about now. The lack of any real journalism in this country is why we are in this mess. If I had any talents in that area I would devote my entire life to journalism. I HATE THE MEDIA. (Did I say that already?)

LOL. On the weekends, my wife won't let me watch the network news before 10:00. She is sick of dealing with my "morning anger."

97 Kenneth  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:58:49am

re: #39 drcordell

I'm not sure that conclusion is as conclusive as Goldberg would like it to be. The fact that Bush "volunteered" for a unit that had limited openings, flying a plane that was soon to be discontinued from combat doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't avoiding combat. Volunteering for an assignment you know you have little chance of receiving surely isn't draft dodging, but it's not signing up for active duty either.

Frankly at this point my answer is "who gives a fuck?" Mapes and Rather had their careers destroyed, Bush was President for 8 years, and Fox News has succeeded in politicizing the media beyond Rupert Murdoch's wildest dreams. Everybody wins!

Man-oh- man, how do you pack so much idiocy into two short paragraphs?

First of all: Bush volunteered to got to Nam. If the Air Force had decided to take him he would have done whatever they ordered him to do. He does not get to pick and choose his assignments.

Secondly: Mapes & Rather have only themselves to blame for destroying their own venal careers. Period.

Thirdly: Bush was President for 8 years, because he won the election, despite the malignant efforts of Rather & Mapes to lie to the American people.

Fourthly: This incident had nothing to do with Fox News. Rather's lies were exposed right here on LGF, and a handful of other blogs.

And finally, given that all the other networks are so completely in the tank for the Democratic party, it's a wee bit rich to gripe about the one network that leans to the GOP.

98 HelloDare  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:58:55am

Courage for Dan Rather, by Mary Mapes September 20, 2007

It has been three years since we aired our much-maligned story on President Bush's National Guard service and reaped a whirlwind of right-wing outrage and talk radio retaliation. That part of the assault on our story was not unexpected. In September 2004, anyone who had the audacity to even ask impertinent questions about the president was certain to be figuratively kicked in the head by the usual suspects.

What was different in our case was the brand new and bruising power of the conservative blogosphere, particularly the extremists among them. They formed a tightly knit community of keyboard assault artists who saw themselves as avenging angels of the right, determined to root out and decimate anything they believed to be disruptive to their worldview.

To them, the fact that the president wimped out on his National Guard duty during the Vietnam War -- and then covered it up -- was no big deal. Our having the temerity to say it on national TV was unforgivable and we had to be destroyed. They organized, with the help of longtime well-connected Republican activists, and began their assault...

...And we showed for the first time a cache of documents allegedly written by Bush's former commander. The documents supported a mountain of other evidence that young Bush had dodged his duty and not been punished. They did not in any way diverge from the information in the sketchy pieces of the president's official record made available by the White House or the National Guard. In fact, to the few people who had gone to the trouble of examining the Bush record, these papers filled in some of the blanks.

We reported that since these documents were copies, not originals, they could not be fully authenticated, at least not in the legal sense. They could not be subjected to tests to determine the age of the paper or the ink. We did get corroboration on the content and support from a couple of longtime document analysts saying they saw nothing indicating that the memos were not real.

Instantly, the far right blogosphere bully boys pronounced themselves experts on document analysis, and began attacking the form and font in the memos. They screamed objections that ultimately proved to have no basis in fact. But they captured the argument. They dominated the discussion by churning out gigabytes of mind-numbing internet dissertations about the typeface in the memos, focusing on the curl at the end of the "a," the dip on the top of the "t," the spacing, the superscript, which typewriters were used in the military in 1972.

It was a deceptive approach, and it worked.

These critics blathered on about everything but the content. They knew they would lose that argument, so they didn't raise it. They focused on the most obscure, most difficult to decipher element of the story and dove in, attacking CBS, Dan Rather, me, the story and the horse we rode in on -- without respite, relentlessly, for days.

Soon, traditional media began repeating some of the claims and joining in the attack on the story. They didn't do any real work on the substance of the story; they just wanted to talk about typeface. And that was an empty, unsolvable argument that did nothing but serve the purposes of the Bush administration, which had been fanning the flames of the controversy and hoping to avoid any hard questions...

...In the meantime, this is what I do know.

Dan Rather is a legendary reporter who has spent decades doing his job like few others...

And at 75 years old, Rather still has more reportorial testosterone than the entire employee roster at FOX News. It is a tremendous injustice to journalism that he has to go to court to be treated with respect.

Courage, buddy. Courage to us all.

99 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:59:05am

re: #91 LudwigVanQuixote

I absolutely agree. It is also something that stands out that he would spend most of his time training on a plane that was slated for decommission. He certainly did not cut his own orders, but I do strongly suspect some family pull involved.

Good lord. You guys just can't get past it, can you? So now the Bush family somehow manipulated things so that the Air National Guard had something less than frontline service planes?

100 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:59:10am

re: #91 LudwigVanQuixote

I absolutely agree. It is also something that stands out that he would spend most of his time training on a plane that was slated for decommission. He certainly did not cut his own orders, but I do strongly suspect some family pull involved.

And in the spirit of good solid scientific methods could we have a link to your proof of that?

101 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:59:32am

re: #42 erp

I read about this at the time, but don't remember where. Also mentioned was the fact the as the son of career diplomat, Bush wouldn't have seen combat anyway.

Except that at the time, GHWB wasn't yet a career diplomat. He was a 1 term (maybe 2 terms) congressman from Houston. That's not enough to keep a pilot out of a combat zone.

102 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:59:50am

re: #88 realwest

Well now that drcordell has not only moved the goalposts, he's changing or trying to change, the entire playing field, I am outta here.

As you 'usually' always say: "Hope we get the chance to see ya down the road."
:)

103 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:59:53am

re: #81 JamesTKirk

Even that isn't new. I wrote this in 2005:

According to page 71 of the report, Mapes was told that then-Lieutenant Bush had volunteered for active duty in Vietnam but did not have enough flight hours to qualify. Astonishingly, this is a piece of information which I have never seen anywhere in the media, which CBS apparently decided to sit on. (This information is reinforced on the top of page 140, as multiple sources backed it up -- some of whom imparted this information to Mapes as far back as 1999.)

Can I call you "James T. 'Deep throat" Kirk?" /

Good catch by the way

104 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:59:57am

And My Moonbat Brother (MMT™) still maintains that the documents could have come from a typewriter in common use by ANG types in those days. As a fallback, of course, even if they were forged, it doesn't matter.

I actually dragged him to my computer one time and showed him the flashing GIF, and explained how it was created with default Word settings. Nothing.

105 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:00:22am

And of course, the ubiquitous Shadout Mapes...

106 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:00:46am

re: #88 realwest

Well now that drcordell has not only moved the goalposts, he's changing or trying to change, the entire playing field...

A symptom of advanced rectal myopia.

107 Last Mohican  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:00:52am

re: #62 jcm

Kerry spent six months on boat...

Using the above figures, that would have given him approximately a 0.3% chance of becoming a casualty if he were on a Coast Guard boat. The actual probability would be "not a whole lot higher" as he was actually on a Navy boat.

The accident rate on an F-102 was 13.69 mishaps per 100,000 flight hour. According to this highly-biased anti-Bush wikipedia article, George Bush reportedly logged 336 total flight hours in the F-102. That would mean he had a 4.6% chance of suffering a "mishap." I don't know exactly what constitutes a "mishap," but if even 15-20% of them were fatal, then Bush's job would seem to be more dangerous than Kerry's.

108 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:00:53am

re: #92 blangwort

When I was a kid I used to listen to Radio Moscow on shortwave. This was during the cold war. At first, I used to laugh at their warped view of the world. And then, gradually, I realized that these people were serious about what they were saying. Then I listened to the BBC. And, with a mindset newly tuned to what propaganda sounds like, I found all sorts of interesting things that others would report that the BBC did not.

The point is that I've never stopped asking questions about the things people spout in front of a computer, a microphone or a camera.

We can and we should expose these hypocrisies. But do keep in mind that even for scrupulously honest reporting organizations, there are limits to objectivity. To claim otherwise is folly.

When I was in college, the library had the English translation of Pravda available. I found it amusing, in an alternate-reality way.

109 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:00:55am

re: #105 experiencedtraveller

And of course, the ubiquitous Shadout Mapes...

+1 for Dune reference.

/geek off

110 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:01:23am

re: #105 experiencedtraveller

And of course, the ubiquitous Shadout Mapes...

ya...ya...yawm...

111 TheMatrix31  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:01:42am

re: #98 HelloDare

Fuck Dan Rather.

112 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:01:58am

re: #93 LudwigVanQuixote

I don't claim that. I think he actually wanted to go.

I'm very sorry, but it's clear Kerry didn't want to go. He tried, consistently, to get out of it.

113 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:02:06am

re: #98 HelloDare

What a horrible, self-righteously mendacious person Mapes is. Amazing.

114 Kragar  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:02:27am

re: #111 TheMatrix31

Fuck Dan Rather.

I'd really rather not

115 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:02:37am
116 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:02:42am

re: #104 Cato the Elder

And My Moonbat Brother (MMT™) still maintains that the documents could have come from a typewriter in common use by ANG types in those days. As a fallback, of course, even if they were forged, it doesn't matter.

I actually dragged him to my computer one time and showed him the flashing GIF, and explained how it was created with default Word settings. Nothing.

Your brother is Dan Rather?

117 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:02:42am

re: #104 Cato the Elder

PIMF: MMB™

118 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:02:44am

re: #48 Sharmuta

But how many harmed by these "supposedly neutral and objective" (as they sell themselves to be) reporters/news organizations take up the sword of lawfare during/after the damage being done and sue them into oblivion for libel? We live in a free market society (or so I'm told) and if the lying scum being lying scum instead of either open about their bias or intentions became a fiscally fatal liability* for organizations those organizations would drop them or be ground into dust by lawsuit after lawsuit.


*not for lack of advertisers but for the weight of monetary judgments against them driving them to bankruptcy and then drowning them after bankruptcy can no longer protect them

119 TheMatrix31  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:02:55am

re: #111 TheMatrix31

And Mapes, or whatever the hell her name is.

120 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:03:03am

re: #103 Creeping Eruption

Can I call you "James T. 'Deep throat" Kirk?"

Not if Mandy Manners is around.

Good catch by the way

Thanks. I read that whole report when it came out.

121 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:03:15am

re: #44 drcordell

Yeah... "floating around" is a great way to describe infantry combat in Vietnam. Christ you chickenhawks are shameless.

I actually saw Kerry's swift boat in its originally assigned patrol zone. "Floating around" is a pretty good description. Zero danger. And I know exactly how he got his first (undeserved) purple heart.

122 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:03:18am

re: #111 TheMatrix31

Fuck Dan Rather.

Not even with your prick.

/only pokin' fun...

123 Kenneth  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:03:28am

re: #76 LudwigVanQuixote

Never get outa the boat

124 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:04:03am

re: #89 Sharmuta

Were the other presidents involved in sexual harassment cases where they were committing perjury in the hopes of denying a fellow citizen their day in court?

In terms of sexual peccadillos there has been much worse. That woman's day in court was filed on the practically the last day before the statute of limitations ran out funded by a massive amount of political money in order to smear the president. It is unclear how much money the lady received for her efforts and it is certain that she did not pay for the battery of attorney's provided to her by outside political interests.

She may well have been truly an innocent victim with a legitimate grievance. However, the circumstance cast a great deal of doubt on the purity of her motives. There can be no doubt as to the motives of those doing the funding. And last but not least, the point that was put into contention was an affair with a different woman.

Now, I am not trying to defend philandering. However, the GOP grievance theater on this gets really old. They went on a witch hunt and they got really lucky that one woman would betray her friend with a tape recorder in an unrelated case.

In the grand history of presidential misconduct, - even sexual misconduct, it was a non-story from the start that got ruthlessly used for political advantage.

125 drcordell  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:04:20am

re: #101 Son of the Black Dog

Except that at the time, GHWB wasn't yet a career diplomat. He was a 1 term (maybe 2 terms) congressman from Houston. That's not enough to keep a pilot out of a combat zone.

The one term congressman from Houston... whose father was a United States Senator from 1952-1963. And yes, a grandfather Senator and a father Congressman is enough to keep your son out of a combat zone.

I'm not saying it conclusively happened, but would it shock you if it did? You don't think that millions of dollars, a Congressman father and a former 2-term Senator grandfather couldn't get a few strings pulled? Really?

126 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:04:22am

re: #76 LudwigVanQuixote

Respectfully, I think you are letting your hatred of Kerry allow you to wrongly and shamefully, disparage the service of men who did a very tough job on the boats in Vietnam.

I was born in the early seventies so I obviously wasn't there. However, it seems obvious to me that there would have been a threat hidden forces, snipers and rockets behind every single bush and tree along both sides of the river.

It seems to me that the men we sent on those boats had to face some serious shit.

Do not discount their service.


Fair enough. But can we also agree that Bush didn't volunteer to fly F-102s because that was a "safe" thing to do, and he was a "coward"?

127 HelloDare  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:04:26am

re: #113 Occasional Reader

What a horrible, self-righteously mendacious person Mapes is. Amazing.

And then some.

128 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:04:31am

re: #111 TheMatrix31

Fuck Dan Rather.

Not even with a borrowed penis.

129 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:04:37am

re: #115 buzzsawmonkey

re: #100 Walter L. Newton

There had to be "family pull"; GHWB is a Yank.

Proof positive!

I wonder if LudwigVanQuixote's theory has been peer reviewed? Or is it just bullshit?

130 ladycatnip  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:05:09am
It does raise an interesting question, though: since Mapes was apparently willing to cover up what she knew about Bush volunteering for Vietnam, did she also know all along that the documents were frauds? Most people have assumed that Mapes and CBS were tricked into airing the memos — but what if it was deliberate?

She probably didn't read it. Libs seem to have an aversion to reading stuff, like the health care scam bill.

131 jcm  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:05:33am

re: #107 Last Mohican

Using the above figures, that would have given him approximately a 0.3% chance of becoming a casualty if he were on a Coast Guard boat. The actual probability would be "not a whole lot higher" as he was actually on a Navy boat.

The accident rate on an F-102 was 13.69 mishaps per 100,000 flight hour. According to this highly-biased anti-Bush wikipedia article, George Bush reportedly logged 336 total flight hours in the F-102. That would mean he had a 4.6% chance of suffering a "mishap." I don't know exactly what constitutes a "mishap," but if even 15-20% of them were fatal, then Bush's job would seem to be more dangerous than Kerry's.

The point being, GWB was not lacking in courage. Strapping on a -102 took courage, as did riding a Swift Boat into combat.

Claiming that GWB avoid service in 'Nam because he was a coward is a lie.

Let's call the courage thing a wash.

Mapes an Rather used their positions for a political agenda.

132 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:05:34am

re: #128 JamesTKirk

Not even with a borrowed penis.

Not even with Mao-Tse Tung's dick!

/old high school joke

133 JohnnyReb  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:05:40am

I can't help but wonder if this is just coming out in some way to help Rather in his lawsuit? I mean he could say that his producer set him up I guess.

134 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:05:57am

re: #124 LudwigVanQuixote

In the grand history of presidential misconduct, - even sexual misconduct, it was a non-story from the start that got ruthlessly used for political advantage.

Perjury and obstruction of justice.

THAT'S the story.

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:06:14am

re: #62 jcm

Kerry spent six months on boat...

Is it really necessary to denigrate a man's service simply because you don't like his politics?

136 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:06:24am

re: #133 JohnnyReb

I can't help but wonder if this is just coming out in some way to help Rather in his lawsuit? I mean he could say that his producer set him up I guess.

Marion Barry already tried the "Bitch Set Me Up!" defense, and it didn't work for him.

137 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:06:25am

re: #23 jcm

Which was more dangerous:
Floating around in a Swift Boat in 'Nam.
Or driving a F-102 which had the nickname "Lawn Dart?"

Sorry, but that's just not right.
It's not about the danger, and I know plenty of people think Kerry's service is bogus, but that is the same as calling Bush's bogus.
I dislike doing either, and would not condone from others myself.
It reeks of pettiness.
Just saying.

138 BlueCanuck  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:06:40am

Well reading through the link that the "good" dr provided, I have found some common ground with GWB. Who wants to wallow in the dirt when you can soar above it. :)

/unfortunately I did wallow in the dirt. Life happens.

139 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:06:53am

re: #118 anotherindyfilmguy

But how many harmed by these "supposedly neutral and objective" (as they sell themselves to be) reporters/news organizations take up the sword of lawfare during/after the damage being done and sue them into oblivion for libel? We live in a free market society (or so I'm told) and if the lying scum being lying scum instead of either open about their bias or intentions became a fiscally fatal liability* for organizations those organizations would drop them or be ground into dust by lawsuit after lawsuit.

*not for lack of advertisers but for the weight of monetary judgments against them driving them to bankruptcy and then drowning them after bankruptcy can no longer protect them

I'm not sure how to answer you, because you've already shown me you don't think people should have a right to organize against pundits, etc. If a group can't organize a boycott, why should they be allowed to organize a lawsuit?

I am being rhetorical.

140 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:07:00am

What's all this about "sexual armadillos", anyway?

141 TheMatrix31  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:07:02am

Well, after wasting my fuckin' time going to the LA Courthouse in downtown, twenty miles away from where I am, and finding out that the date on the ticket was not, in fact, a court date...I'm going back to bed.

142 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:07:11am

re: #133 JohnnyReb

I can't help but wonder if this is just coming out in some way to help Rather in his lawsuit? I mean he could say that his producer set him up I guess.

It's still his responsibility. Unless he's willing to admit that he was nothing but a glorified teleprompter reader. Which, btw, is what I think most of these 'anchors' are.

143 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:07:20am

Well, one thing is possible, after all. If you are in a unit you know is not going to be called up, volunteering is easy.

I don't say Bush did know this, but it's possible.

If he had really, truly wanted to serve in Nam, he would have found a way.

Just sayin'.

144 Pickles  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:07:25am

I have long felt that the biggest scandal of all in this whole thing was the fact that the rest of the press had no interest in investigating one of their own. Not good for journalism or for the country as a whole.

145 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:07:47am

re: #134 Occasional Reader

Perjury and obstruction of justice.

THAT'S the story.


[And by the way, I would have voted against impeachment, on balance. But stop saying the story was "just about sex".]

146 Racer X  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:07:48am

Charles,

Just want to say thank you for pointing this out back in 2004. If not for you, these assholes at CBS could have turned the election around in favor of John F. Kerry. The fact that they were, and are, lying through their teeth does not matter to them.

Thank You!

And keep on exposing the idiots as you see them.

147 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:07:53am

re: #106 DaddyG

A symptom of advanced rectal myopia.

Don't think I want to see the "glasses" that correct that condition.

148 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:07:54am

re: #99 Occasional Reader

Good lord. You guys just can't get past it, can you? So now the Bush family somehow manipulated things so that the Air National Guard had something less than frontline service planes?

NO hardly. Not what I said at all. I said I suspect, and that I could be wrong, that the Bush family knew that plane was slated for decommission and saw to it that W. was assigned there. It really does not make sense to train a pilot for a year on a plane that is being decommissioned at the end of that year.

Now I could be wrong. The military moves in mysterious ways on its own sometimes without having to assume there was a fix.

My suspicion, which I could be wrong about, is predicated on the idea that military orders should make sense. We all know that is not always the case.

I do believe that W. wanted to go.

149 HelloDare  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:08:10am

That piece by Mapes was published at the Huffington Post. Here is her profile there.

Mary Mapes

Mary Mapes worked in television news for 25 years, the last 16 years at CBS News, where she received numerous awards, including the coveted Peabody. In 2004, working with Dan Rather at 60 Minutes II, her team broke the story of prison abuse at Abu Ghraib. Later that year she was fired for producing a controversial report on President George W. Bush's military service.

Her book Truth and Duty, is now available in paperback.

Truth and Duty. That would be fiction, I presume.

150 drcordell  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:08:31am

It's too funny reading all of the comments deriding Kerry as a pussy who "didn't want to go" to Vietnam and "wasn't really in danger." All because he was a Democrat. But the fact that George Bush attempted to sign up for combat and didn't end up going makes him a model U.S. citizen. Fucking hilarious.

151 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:08:40am

re: #110 Cato the Elder

ya...ya...yawm...

Be careful. That could be twitchy with a weirding module. /

152 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:08:51am

re: #81 JamesTKirk

Even that isn't new. I wrote this in 2005:

According to page 71 of the report, Mapes was told that then-Lieutenant Bush had volunteered for active duty in Vietnam but did not have enough flight hours to qualify. Astonishingly, this is a piece of information which I have never seen anywhere in the media, which CBS apparently decided to sit on. (This information is reinforced on the top of page 140, as multiple sources backed it up -- some of whom imparted this information to Mapes as far back as 1999.)

Agreed -- it's not really new, and it's not even all that shocking. Goldberg is overselling this.

153 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:08:54am

re: #142 LGoPs

It's still his responsibility. Unless he's willing to admit that he was nothing but a glorified teleprompter reader. Which, btw, is what I think most of these 'anchors' are.


How presidential of them. /

154 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:08:58am

re: #115 buzzsawmonkey

re: #100 Walter L. Newton

There had to be "family pull"; GHWB is a Yank.

Proof positive!

The alleged scandal is that Bush used "favoritism" and connections to get his position in the Texas Air National Guard, thus avoiding service in Vietnam. This is the story that they've been drilling into our heads for years. On page 56 of the report, it is revealed that there was no waiting list for President Bush's TexANG unit at the time he entered. (This is repeated elsewhere.) Mapes was aware of this as far back as April of 1999; they must have forgotten to mention it.

Also me, January 2005

155 BlueCanuck  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:09:14am

re: #147 Creeping Eruption

Don't think I want to see the "glasses" that correct that condition.

More like a periscope with snorkel attachment.

156 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:09:22am

re: #124 LudwigVanQuixote

My point in bringing it up is that DrCordell didn't think canning the story was politically motivated. I think it was. It wasn't just covering an affair like the press did/does for other presidents- they know this one would be problematic, imo.

157 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:09:24am
158 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:09:30am

re: #148 LudwigVanQuixote

NO hardly. Not what I said at all. I said I suspect, and that I could be wrong, that the Bush family knew that plane was slated for decommission and saw to it that W. was assigned there. It really does not make sense to train a pilot for a year on a plane that is being decommissioned at the end of that year.

Now I could be wrong. The military moves in mysterious ways on its own sometimes without having to assume there was a fix.

My suspicion, which I could be wrong about, is predicated on the idea that military orders should make sense. We all know that is not always the case.

I do believe that W. wanted to go.

You change your story quicker than the climate changes.

159 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:09:34am

re: #143 Cato the Elder

Well, one thing is possible, after all. If you are in a unit you know is not going to be called up, volunteering is easy.

I don't say Bush did know this, but it's possible.

If he had really, truly wanted to serve in Nam, he would have found a way.

Just sayin'.

And, as importantly, I think it should be pointed out that Sarah Palin didn't volunteer for Viet Nam either, the cowardly bitch.
/ *just figgered I'd beat you to it*
;

160 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:10:11am

re: #129 Walter L. Newton

I wonder if LudwigVanQuixote's theory has been peer reviewed? Or is it just bullshit?

Actually now Walter, that would be an hypothesis - hence all of the statements like "I could be wrong" and "I suspect" and "It could be something else."

But good try.

161 drcordell  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:10:23am

re: #159 LGoPs

And, as importantly, I think it should be pointed out that Sarah Palin didn't volunteer for Viet Nam either, the cowardly bitch.
/ *just figgered I'd beat you to it*
;

They don't let mentally unfit people into the Army.

162 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:10:30am

re: #78 lawhawk

I don't discount Kerry's service in the US Navy, or the time served while on patrol in the rivers and backwaters of Vietnam. It was a dangerous place, and fire could be received at any time. But to claim that Bush didn't want to go to Vietnam is for lack of a better term - BS.

Agreed, on both points although I have no idea whether Bush 'really' wanted to go. It's not important.

163 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:10:43am
164 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:11:11am

re: #148 LudwigVanQuixote

NO hardly. Not what I said at all. I said I suspect, and that I could be wrong, that the Bush family knew that plane was slated for decommission and saw to it that W. was assigned there. It really does not make sense to train a pilot for a year on a plane that is being decommissioned at the end of that year.

Now I could be wrong. The military moves in mysterious ways on its own sometimes without having to assume there was a fix.

My suspicion, which I could be wrong about, is predicated on the idea that military orders should make sense. We all know that is not always the case.

I do believe that W. wanted to go.

Occam's razor - simplest explanation is that the military wasn't proceeding in the smartest manner and/or there was a lack of communication between the guys in the Pentagon who decided to decommission the plane and the guys out in the Texas ANG still using them.

165 BlueCanuck  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:11:15am

re: #161 drcordell

They don't let mentally unfit people into the Army.

So that's why you were turned down?

/just had to, I really, really couldn't restrain myself.

166 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:11:16am

re: #143 Cato the Elder

Well, one thing is possible, after all. If you are in a unit you know is not going to be called up, volunteering is easy.

I don't say Bush did know this, but it's possible.

If he had really, truly wanted to serve in Nam, he would have found a way.

Just sayin'.


The difference here is Bush was a fighter pilot and he didn't have the hours. Why would he go if not to be a fighter pilot?

167 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:11:16am

re: #161 drcordell

They don't let mentally unfit people into the Army.

So that's how you stayed out. Clever.

168 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:11:28am

re: #106 DaddyG

A symptom of advanced rectal myopia.

That reminds me of the time I called into work sick and told them I had anal glaucoma. When they asked what that was, I told them "I have a condition where I don't see my ass coming into work."

169 jcm  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:11:46am

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

Is it really necessary to denigrate a man's service simply because you don't like his politics?

Kerry dishonored himself.
His Testimony before congress he incriminated himself, while slandering those who did serve honorably.
His meetings with the North Vietnamese in Paris.

170 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:11:56am

re: #168 MrSilverDragon

That reminds me of the time I called into work sick and told them I had anal glaucoma. When they asked what that was, I told them "I have a condition where I don't see my ass coming into work."

LOL!

171 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:12:07am

re: #161 drcordell

They don't let mentally unfit people into the Army.

Fortunately for you, there are no such restrictions for mentally unfit people writing on blogs.

172 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:12:16am

re: #168 MrSilverDragon

LOL, did you hear it?

173 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:12:18am

re: #161 drcordell

They don't let mentally unfit people into the Army.

Are you trying to make friends with Cato?

174 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:12:57am

re: #168 MrSilverDragon

That reminds me of the time I called into work sick and told them I had anal glaucoma. When they asked what that was, I told them "I have a condition where I don't see my ass coming into work."

Like when the roads are icy?

175 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:13:00am

re: #152 Charles

Agreed -- it's not really new, and it's not even all that shocking. Goldberg is overselling this.

At least it's finally being sold/told. How many people do you think bothered to read the CBS report? Given that Rather, Mapes, et al. are continuing to lie, it helps to have other people (present company included) continuing to beat the drums of truth.

176 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:13:01am

re: #164 JamesTKirk

Occam's razor - simplest explanation is that the military wasn't proceeding in the smartest manner and/or there was a lack of communication between the guys in the Pentagon who decided to decommission the plane and the guys out in the Texas ANG still using them.

Not to mention, the odd idea of Bush's family deliberately trying to manipulate things so that he would be assigned to fly a fighter jet with a terrible safety record... so he'd stay safe! Like there weren't far safer things they could have picked for him (assuming they had that power).

177 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:13:06am

I'm going to channel my grandmother and blame Jane Fonda.

178 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:13:21am

nodroG was at least nice, sometimes.

179 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:13:35am

re: #160 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually now Walter, that would be an hypothesis - hence all of the statements like "I could be wrong" and "I suspect" and "It could be something else."

But good try.

Sorry, but you comment in re: #91 which I was comment on had nothing about "I could be wrong" in your comment. And your "I suspect" was "I strongly suspect."

180 TheMatrix31  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:14:07am

re: #168 MrSilverDragon

That reminds me of the time I called into work sick and told them I had anal glaucoma. When they asked what that was, I told them "I have a condition where I don't see my ass coming into work."

LMFAO

181 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:14:18am

re: #177 Sharmuta

I'm going to channel my grandmother and blame Jane Fonda.

It's always a wise default position.

182 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:14:40am

re: #125 drcordell

The one term congressman from Houston... whose father was a United States Senator from 1952-1963. And yes, a grandfather Senator and a father Congressman is enough to keep your son out of a combat zone.

I'm not saying it conclusively happened, but would it shock you if it did? You don't think that millions of dollars, a Congressman father and a former 2-term Senator grandfather couldn't get a few strings pulled? Really?


Perhaps you haven't noticed. We don't deal with bull$#!+ postulation here.

183 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:14:48am

re: #180 TheMatrix31

LMFAO

Looks like we'll all be using that one in the future.

184 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:14:50am

re: #99 Occasional Reader

Good lord. You guys just can't get past it, can you? So now the Bush family somehow manipulated things so that the Air National Guard had something less than frontline service planes?

You seriously believe that the Bush family's influence played no role in their son's wartime experience? By Vietnam, high-ranking politicians were no longer routinely sending their sons to war, as, for example, they were when George Bush Sr. served.

That is not a slur on the family or on the former President. It's the way things were at the time.

185 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:14:51am

Another healthcare lie from the party of Glenn Beck...
The RNC’s Health Care Survey

"It has been suggested that the government could use voter registration to determine a person's political affiliation, prompting fears that GOP voters might be discriminated against for medical treatment in a Democrat-imposed health care rationing system. Does this possibility concern you?"

186 Buck  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:14:52am

re: #39 drcordell

Mapes and Rather had their careers destroyed,

I am sure you mean "Mapes and Rather destroyed their careers".

187 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:14:57am

re: #169 jcm

Kerry dishonored himself.
His Testimony before congress he incriminated himself, while slandering those who did serve honorably.
His meetings with the North Vietnamese in Paris.

Don't forget the trip into Cambodia that was seered into his memory, in which he couldn't even remember who was President at the time, and which no one else can corroborate ever happened.

188 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:15:02am

re: #164 JamesTKirk

Occam's razor - simplest explanation is that the military wasn't proceeding in the smartest manner and/or there was a lack of communication between the guys in the Pentagon who decided to decommission the plane and the guys out in the Texas ANG still using them.

At that time, the National Guard was flying obsolete aircraft in general; they got the ones the Air Force didn't want any more. Late 1960's/ early 1970's, the Massachusetts ANG was flying F-84's (talk about old) and then replaced them with F-106's (somewhat upgraded F-102's)
This from when I was in the Explorers and we got to visit the ANG at Otis AFB.

189 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:15:09am

Damn, I got some drcordell on my shoe again. I hate that. Anybody got a stick so I can scrape it off?

190 HelloDare  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:15:20am

Hey Charles,

Mary Mapes book, Truth and Duty, is available on Kindle. Just thought you'd like to know. You can have it in under a minute. /

191 TheMatrix31  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:15:48am

re: #183 Ward Cleaver

Looks like we'll all be using that one in the future.

Hell, my boss probably would use that one if he could.

192 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:16:00am

re: #134 Occasional Reader

Perjury and obstruction of justice.

THAT'S the story.

Perjury in a non-criminal case yes. Agreed.

Obstruction of justice - that assumes that the questions asked were just questions in the first place. Don't pretend that this was some innocent choir girl who was assaulted by a ravening Bill. Don't pretend that she wasn't paid for by Bill's political opponents and don't assume that the case wasn't funded by his political opponents - at the last moment. The woman was so upset by her experience that it took GOP attorneys and funding to remind her she was so upset. It was a fishing expedition that actually caught a different fish than expected.

I am again not defending philandering. However, it was a smear job through and through and the motives of those doing the smear were not the motives of justice.

193 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:16:00am

re: #185 Killgore Trout

Another healthcare lie from the party of Glenn Beck...
The RNC’s Health Care Survey

That's even worse than Beck's czar-phobia. Good grief.

194 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:16:07am

re: #176 Occasional Reader

Not to mention, the odd idea of Bush's family deliberately trying to manipulate things so that he would be assigned to fly a fighter jet with a terrible safety record... so he'd stay safe! Like there weren't far safer things they could have picked for him (assuming they had that power).

It's the "assuming they had that power" caveat that makes me laugh here. I can't prove that they used it, and I don't want to, because I don't hate Bush.

But to assume anything else except that they could have is naive in the extreme.

195 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:16:13am

re: #184 SanFranciscoZionist

See Kosh's #188 below for the correct answer to the point I was ACTUALLY making.

196 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:16:14am

re: #190 HelloDare

Hey Charles,

Mary Mapes book, Truth and Duty, is available on Kindle. Just thought you'd like to know. You can have it in under a minute. /

Paperback would be a lot safer.

/

197 Racer X  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:16:18am

I highly recommend Bernard Goldberg's "A Slobbering Love Affair: The True (And Pathetic) Story of the Torrid Romance Between Barack Obama and the Mainstream Media".

He does an excellent job laying out exactly how the MSM decided who would be president.

198 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:16:33am

re: #176 Occasional Reader

Not to mention, the odd idea of Bush's family deliberately trying to manipulate things so that he would be assigned to fly a fighter jet with a terrible safety record... so he'd stay safe! Like there weren't far safer things they could have picked for him (assuming they had that power).

They did not have that sort of power at the time, to manipulate the rules, laws, government, and media to the benefit of their family members.

They weren't the Kennedys.

199 Buck  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:16:46am

re: #81 JamesTKirk

Even that isn't new. I wrote this in 2005:

According to page 71 of the report, Mapes was told that then-Lieutenant Bush had volunteered for active duty in Vietnam but did not have enough flight hours to qualify. Astonishingly, this is a piece of information which I have never seen anywhere in the media, which CBS apparently decided to sit on. (This information is reinforced on the top of page 140, as multiple sources backed it up -- some of whom imparted this information to Mapes as far back as 1999.)

Wow Captain... I am impressed. Seriously. It is cool that you remember this, and could find it.

200 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:16:54am

re: #164 JamesTKirk

Occam's razor - simplest explanation is that the military wasn't proceeding in the smartest manner and/or there was a lack of communication between the guys in the Pentagon who decided to decommission the plane and the guys out in the Texas ANG still using them.

Absolutely. That is why I was so careful to say that I only suspect and that the suspicion could be wrong.

201 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:17:00am

re: #39 drcordell

. . .

Frankly at this point my answer is "who gives a fuck?" Mapes and Rather had their careers destroyed, Bush was President for 8 years, and Fox News has succeeded in politicizing the media beyond Rupert Murdoch's wildest dreams. Everybody wins!

Mapes and Rather, through their own actions, destroyed their own careers.
They didn't "have their careers destroyed" by some mysterious and evil process.

202 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:17:10am
203 HelloDare  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:17:18am

re: #196 wrenchwench

Paperback would be a lot safer.

/

It's only $9.99. Wait, that's how much they'll pay you to read it.

204 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:17:24am

re: #185 Killgore Trout

Another healthcare lie from the party of Glenn Beck...
The RNC’s Health Care Survey

That's just too silly. People change their affiliation with remarkable abandon.

205 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:17:26am

re: #187 JamesTKirk

Don't forget the trip into Cambodia that was seered into his memory, in which he couldn't even remember who was President at the time, and which no one else can corroborate ever happened.

And the Cambodians were celebrating Christmas! Don't forget that one... my favorite detail, personally.

206 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:17:32am

re: #189 LGoPs

Damn, I got some drcordell on my shoe again. I hate that. Anybody got a stick so I can scrape it off?

Just go outside and wipe it off using the grass. That's what I do. Is that like getting jihad on your shoe?

/old lgf joke

207 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:17:33am

re: #134 Occasional Reader

Perjury and obstruction of justice.

THAT'S the story.

And a new euphemism for blow-job, that's the icing on the cake.
/

208 BlueCanuck  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:17:35am

re: #196 wrenchwench

Paperback would be a lot safer.

/

And more flammable/throwable...

209 jcm  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:17:53am

re: #199 Buck

Wow Captain... I am impressed. Seriously. It is cool that you remember this, and could find it.

That's why gets all the hot green skinned women!

;-P

210 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:17:58am

re: #190 HelloDare

Hey Charles,

Mary Mapes book, Truth and Duty, is available on Kindle. Just thought you'd like to know. You can have it in under a minute. /

Amazon reports customers angry over not having their books remotely deleted. /

211 JohnnyReb  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:18:10am

re: #187 JamesTKirk

Don't forget the trip into Cambodia that was seered into his memory, in which he couldn't even remember who was President at the time, and which no one else can corroborate ever happened.

Thats because everyone else was riding their bicycles into East Berlin.

212 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:18:15am

re: #193 Ward Cleaver

That's even worse than Beck's czar-phobia. Good grief.

It's from the RNC and has Steele's signature at the bottom. They should really be above this stuff but the lies are scaring people so they think it's working. Embarrassing.

213 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:18:20am

re: #190 HelloDare

Hey Charles,

Mary Mapes book, Truth and Duty, is available on Kindle. Just thought you'd like to know. You can have it in under a minute. /

I take it it's not an autobiography?

214 gonecamping  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:18:25am

He was understandably confused. He meant to say "the trip he took smoking Cambodian"re: #187 JamesTKirk

Don't forget the trip into Cambodia that was seered into his memory, in which he couldn't even remember who was President at the time, and which no one else can corroborate ever happened.

215 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:18:29am

re: #131 jcm

The point being, GWB was not lacking in courage. Strapping on a -102 took courage, as did riding a Swift Boat into combat.

Claiming that GWB avoid service in 'Nam because he was a coward is a lie.

Let's call the courage thing a wash.

Mapes an Rather used their positions for a political agenda.

Agreed, and I posted something else that was not directly aimed at you, but at the many who claim to know "exactly" 40 odd years later what Kerry did or did not do.
Apologies.

The courage thing to me was alway bull shit, as was the dodging charge. Complete bullshit, and this form me that did not approve of the Bush administration in many many ways.
He served, whatever the case, and that should be the end of it.
Fro the matter, I know plenty of Vets that would of done anything to not go... so the issue was nothing from the start, and the the American people thought the same thing.
Funny how that works, that in general, the people can be trusted to do the right thing, or at least not be quite as easily swayed as many on the left and right seem to think.
B

216 theuglydougling  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:18:37am

re: #161 drcordell

They don't let mentally unfit people into the Army.

Let's all file this one back for the next time someone like this asserts that the US military is taking anyone and everyone to use as cannon fodder for its 'nefarious empire-building adventures.'

217 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:18:55am

re: #205 Occasional Reader

And the Cambodians were celebrating Christmas! Don't forget that one... my favorite detail, personally.

So that's how he got the lucky hat? It was a Christmas gift from the Khmer Rouge?

/like that christmas cease-fire in wwi

218 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:19:00am

re: #156 Sharmuta

My point in bringing it up is that DrCordell didn't think canning the story was politically motivated. I think it was. It wasn't just covering an affair like the press did/does for other presidents- they know this one would be problematic, imo.

Fair enough.

219 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:19:11am

That witty old William of Ockham
Gladly suffered no fools. But he'd mock 'em.
Parsimonious shaves
Made them look more like knaves.
"As for shaggy dog tales," he cried, "dock 'em!"

220 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:19:20am

re: #202 buzzsawmonkey

Given the obsolete and soon-to-be-obsolete aircraft the Air National Guard was using, I think it is nothing short of miraculous that they had such up-to-date typewriters.

///

Now that was brilliant!

221 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:19:20am
222 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:19:27am

re: #192 LudwigVanQuixote

So it's just cool with you that a woman be abused, so long as she's plain and not a sweet young thing?

223 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:19:39am

re: #211 JohnnyReb

Thats because everyone else was riding their bicycles into East Berlin.

I missed this story, I think... explain?

224 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:19:55am

re: #212 Killgore Trout

It's from the RNC and has Steele's signature at the bottom. They should really be above this stuff but the lies are scaring people so they think it's working. Embarrassing.

They're turning into the Democrats ("Reagan's going to take away your Social Security!").

225 opnion  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:20:11am

re: #169 jcm

Kerry dishonored himself.
His Testimony before congress he incriminated himself, while slandering those who did serve honorably.
His meetings with the North Vietnamese in Paris.

Kerry's whole Winter Soldier Project was a mess, his cofounder who claimed that he flew in Viet Nam actually served in Japan.
Many of the "Viet" vets were never in country & some were never in the military.
The stories that Kerry told in front of the Committee he admited he heard from the people in his organization, highly suspect.
Kerry is a fraud.

226 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:20:22am

re: #139 Sharmuta

You are correct about my aversion to boycotts. Part of my point in the thread about boycotts was that boycotts are underhanded and lack a due process factor. They are mob/intimidation politics at work.

Suing for libel however is a legal defense against someone malignantly destroying your reputation/ability to work/you name it. How many reputations have been unduly ruined for having the "R" or "I" in front of their name instead of a "D"?

There is a huge difference in suing someone for libel in that the words they have put forward are being directly challenged as falsehoods. In organizing a boycott there is no trial in a court of law. A libel lawsuit is something setup to purportedly bring out the truth in an impartial setting and punish those who misused their rights to unduly harm another.

In short: A boycott is politically motivated bullying. Libel/slander lawsuits are legal and must (generally) prove truth in court as well as damages and may directly punish the guilty with due process rights etc.

227 Kenneth  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:20:31am

re: #166 unrealizedviewpoint

Actually, the plane Bush flew, the F102, was an interceptor, not a fighter.

228 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:20:52am

re: #221 buzzsawmonkey

Autohagiography, I believe.

Now why have I never seen that term before (e.g., applied to Obama's ouevre)? Brilliant stuff.

229 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:21:08am

She should be stripped of her Peabody.

230 ladycatnip  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:21:25am

#197 Racer X

He does an excellent job laying out exactly how the MSM decided who would be president king

fify

231 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:21:33am

re: #197 Racer X

I highly recommend Bernard Goldberg's "A Slobbering Love Affair: The True (And Pathetic) Story of the Torrid Romance Between Barack Obama and the Mainstream Media".

He does an excellent job laying out exactly how the MSM decided who would be president.

The media is the new Praetorian Guard.

232 ear-to-hear  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:21:39am

'Most people have assumed that Mapes and CBS were tricked into airing the memos — but what if it was deliberate?'

*sigh* as usual, I'm out of step with the majority.. I always just assumed from the get-go that they both knew quite well that they were presenting lies.

233 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:21:58am

re: #126 Occasional Reader

Fair enough. But can we also agree that Bush didn't volunteer to fly F-102s because that was a "safe" thing to do, and he was a "coward"?

I said that I believe that W wanted to go. I never called him a coward.

234 jcm  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:22:05am

re: #229 MandyManners

She should be stripped of her Peabody.

EWWW!

235 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:22:26am

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

Is it really necessary to denigrate a man's service simply because you don't like his politics?

It's the Hello Kettle theory of argument.
Cry like a baby when it happens to you and yell like a two year old when it's about the other side.

236 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:22:31am

re: #198 JamesTKirk

They did not have that sort of power at the time, to manipulate the rules, laws, government, and media to the benefit of their family members.

They weren't the Kennedys.

Don't talk nonsense. If the Bush family really did not want their son to go to Vietnam, he was not going. Once again, this isn't a slur on the family, but they were not the kind of people whose son was going into combat if he didn't choose to.

237 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:22:44am

re: #229 MandyManners

She should be stripped of her Peabody.

And her boy, Sherman?

238 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:22:51am

re: #190 HelloDare

Hey Charles,

Mary Mapes book, Truth and Duty, is available on Kindle. Just thought you'd like to know. You can have it in under a minute. /


It was available at Dollar Tree for a buck, back when I was but a hatchling.

239 Last Mohican  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:23:00am

re: #229 MandyManners

She should be stripped of her Peabody.

I'd rather she didn't strip. I don't want to see her Peabody.

/Maybe I should slow down and read these threads more carefully...

240 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:23:00am

re: #229 MandyManners

She should be stripped of her Peabody.

And instead cover her with a paper sack.

241 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:23:37am

re: #232 ear-to-hear

'Most people have assumed that Mapes and CBS were tricked into airing the memos — but what if it was deliberate?'

*sigh* as usual, I'm out of step with the majority.. I always just assumed from the get-go that they both knew quite well that they were presenting lies.

My only hesitation regarding that theory is based on the fact that the memo was such an OBVIOUS forgery. I can more easily imagine Mapes and Rather blinding themselves to that, out of ideological hunger that the thing be true; than realizing it, but somehow believing no no else would notice.

242 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:23:43am

re: #219 Cato the Elder

That witty old William of Ockhcam [Occam]
Gladly suffered no fools. But he'd mock 'em.
Parsimonious shaves
Made them look more like knaves.
"As for shaggy dog tales," he cried, "dock 'em!"

Fixed that. I know you appreciate precision.

243 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:23:44am

re: #222 Dianna

So it's just cool with you that a woman be abused, so long as she's plain and not a sweet young thing?

No, abusing Sarah Palin would be OK with a large, ravening crowd.

244 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:23:44am

re: #239 Last Mohican

I'd rather she didn't strip. I don't want to see her Peabody.

/Maybe I should slow down and read these threads more carefully...

That's what she calls it? Is it fuzzy like a squirrel?

245 JohnnyReb  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:23:54am

re: #223 Occasional Reader

I missed this story, I think... explain?

From Kerry's book:

All the images had their impact on young John. One day hoping to satisfy his curiosity about life across the line, John hopped on his bike and cycled into East Berlin. John Kerry himself said "I was 12 years old, it was a great fun adventure. I remember seeing Hitler's bunker distinctly. I dot to ride the Brandenburg Gate and see things other kids didn't get to see. My bike was my great escape from parents, rules and all those things." John's parents were not pleased. If John had been captured in East Berlin, it could have caused a international incident. John's parents decided the best thing for John was to send him off to boarding school. They decided to send young John to boarding school in Switzerland.

246 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:24:07am

Karma and Posts are set to turn over another 1000 clicks in five...

247 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:24:16am

four...

248 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:24:17am
249 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:24:22am

three...

250 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:24:30am

two...

251 saberry0530  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:24:45am

re: #240 Ward Cleaver

And instead cover her with atwo paper sacks.

Better safe than sorry

252 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:24:48am

one...

253 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:24:55am

re: #242 Dianna

Fixed that. I know you appreciate precision.

Arguable point, since of course English spelling was not yet standardized at the time that ol' Billy Ocks was around.

254 jcm  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:24:58am

re: #241 Occasional Reader

My only hesitation regarding that theory is based on the fact that the memo was such an OBVIOUS forgery. I can more easily imagine Mapes and Rather blinding themselves to that, out of ideological hunger that the thing be true; than realizing it, but somehow believing no no else would notice.

Anyone who served in the AF in the 70's knew at a glance the memos where phony.

255 Racer X  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:25:16am

re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist

Don't talk nonsense. If the Bush family really did not want their son to go to Vietnam, he was not going. Once again, this isn't a slur on the family, but they were not the kind of people whose son was going into combat if he didn't choose to.

I must be missing the point. What about John McCain?

256 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:25:26am

5000 posts
6000 Karma

Woo Hoo!

257 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:25:28am

re: #252 DaddyG

one...

I debated on a negative ding, but I'm not feeling particularly douchy today. :)

258 Erik The Red  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:25:33am

re: #249 DaddyG

three...

Thank me. I got you to 6000. Now where is my drink? :)))

259 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:25:39am

re: #252 DaddyG

one...

I'm helping you out.

260 Kenneth  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:25:46am

re: #222 Dianna

So it's just cool with you that a woman be abused, so long as she's plain and not a sweet young thing?

Cheap shot, there. That is a mischaracterization of the both the situation (Lewinsky was an adult and fully aware of what she was doing) and of what LudwigVanQuixote had said.

261 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:25:56am

re: #237 JamesTKirk

And her boy, Sherman?

Thank you - I could not remember the boy's name.

262 Last Mohican  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:26:01am

re: #244 Ward Cleaver

That's what she calls it? Is it fuzzy like a squirrel?

According to Mark Sanford, it's magnificent.

263 turn  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:26:06am

did she also know all along that the documents were frauds?

No doubt about it in my mind ...

264 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:26:17am

...unless, of course, Bush had been a Democrat. Then there would have been hell to pay. Otherwise, CBS had the best motives for doing what they did, so they get a pass.

do I need the sarc tag?

265 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:26:17am

re: #257 MrSilverDragon

I debated on a negative ding, but I'm not feeling particularly douchy today. :)


I applaud your restraint in light of my shameless whoring!

266 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:26:20am

re: #245 JohnnyReb

Oh, my. So he just rode right through the Wall, the razor wire, and the machine gun emplacements... wottaguy!

John Kerry, the gift that keeps on giving.

267 Danny  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:26:29am

Mapes will no doubt claim that, while she was told Bush volunteered, but she couldn't verify it and thus did not believe it was credible.

268 JohnnyReb  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:26:37am

re: #254 jcm

Anyone who served in the AF in the 70's knew at a glance the memos where phony.

I served in the Army in the 70s and I knew they were fake the second I saw them. Those were not written by anyone who had ever served in the military. Way too many discrepancies.

269 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:26:41am

There is one aspect of GWB's TANG service that everyone seems to have overlooked. When GWB joined up as a pilot trainee in mid-1968 we were less than 6 years past the Cuban Missile Crisis. Had we gotten involved in another situation with the Cubans and their Soviet backers, a TANG fighter interceptor unit would have on the front line. So, as far as I'm concerned, GWB was volunteering for combat duty just by joining up as an F-102 pilot.

270 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:26:41am

re: #255 Racer X

I must be missing the point. What about John McCain?

No, see, Bush Sr., a Naval aviator and combat veteran of WW2, was strictly anti-military.

/

271 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:26:56am

re: #262 Last Mohican

According to Mark Sanford, it's magnificent.

My EYES! THEY BURN!

(running around in a circle)

272 Erik The Red  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:27:12am

re: #256 DaddyG

5000 posts
6000 Karma

Woo Hoo!

I need 18 for my 5000. I am going to have to pull out some good jokes later tonight.

273 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:27:12am

re: #237 JamesTKirk

And her boy, Sherman?

Indubitably.

274 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:27:19am

re: #254 jcm

Anyone who served in the AF in the 70's knew at a glance the memos where phony.

Hell, anyone who ever wrote things with a typewriter knew it!

275 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:27:36am

re: #267 Danny

Mapes will no doubt claim that, while she was told Bush volunteered, but she couldn't verify it and thus did not believe it was credible.

She couldn't make find the documents.

276 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:27:47am

re: #243 OldLineTexan

Let's leave the former governor out of it. Mostly because I don't want to read the ugly spew likely to follow, playing on that thought.

277 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:27:48am

re: #241 Occasional Reader

My only hesitation regarding that theory is based on the fact that the memo was such an OBVIOUS forgery. I can more easily imagine Mapes and Rather blinding themselves to that, out of ideological hunger that the thing be true; than realizing it, but somehow believing no no else would notice.

There's also the established fact that they had plenty of evidence in hand which contradicted the obviously forged memo. Even if they were blind enough not to spot the forgery, they still knew it was disproved by the weight of other evidence they had -- but they specifically chose to go with the memos and pretend that the other evidence didn't exist because they had no interest whatsoever in truth or accuracy. They wanted to smear Bush, so that's what they did.

Even if, to give them an amazingly vast benefit of the doubt, they did not spot the memos as the obvious forgeries that they were, they should have reported all of evidence, and both sides of the story. They didn't. It was a planned and deliberate hatchet job from start to finish.

278 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:27:51am

re: #266 Occasional Reader

Oh, my. So he just rode right through the Wall, the razor wire, and the machine gun emplacements... wottaguy!

John Kerry, the gift that keeps on giving.

He disguised himself as a row of medals from the Third Reich, and a disgusted, bitter member of Kampfgruppe Peiper tossed him over the wall.

/

279 Danny  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:27:54am

re: #272 Erik The Red

I need 18 for my 5000. I am going to have to pull out some good jokes later tonight.

Assuming you dont get downdinged, of course.

280 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:28:05am

re: #237 JamesTKirk

And her boy, Sherman?

You're going way-back, there.

"Don't mess with a man with a way-back machine, Dave. I'll erase your entire existence." --Jimmy James.

281 gonecamping  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:28:07am

"Peabrain wins Peabody, film at eleven!"
re: #229 MandyManners

She should be stripped of her Peabody.

282 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:28:09am

re: #260 Kenneth

Cheap shot, there. That is a mischaracterization of the both the situation (Lewinsky was an adult and fully aware of what she was doing) and of what LudwigVanQuixote had said.

Paula Jones' case is the referent.

283 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:28:16am

re: #140 Occasional Reader

What's all this about "sexual armadillos", anyway?

Don't you mean "sexual Piccolos?"/

284 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:28:33am

re: #239 Last Mohican

I'd rather she didn't strip. I don't want to see her Peabody.

/Maybe I should slow down and read these threads more carefully...

She's about 50 so she couldn't look that bad.

285 JohnnyReb  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:28:40am

re: #266 Occasional Reader

Oh, my. So he just rode right through the Wall, the razor wire, and the machine gun emplacements... wottaguy!

John Kerry, the gift that keeps on giving.

I read that during his campaign and just about had a stroke. I spent 3 years in Germany at the Fulda gap in the 70s and I could not believe that he actually thought people would buy that huge lines of BS.

286 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:28:51am

re: #222 Dianna

So it's just cool with you that a woman be abused, so long as she's plain and not a sweet young thing?

Where are you getting that from. No. My argument is that she never claimed that she was raped, and that whatever she did claim happened, in a case of her word against his, apparently didn't anger her enough to actually go to court within even one or three years of the event.

My argument is that whatever happened took how many years and how much money from obvious political enemies to get her into court at the very last moment of the statute of limitations?

For a woman who was so terribly abused, it does cast doubt on her story.

Right, if things were so awful for her, why did it take all of that GOP money and case building to get her into court years later?

Why did she need a whole battery of attorneys to come down from the political machine to get her into court?

Why did she suddenly turn into a spotlight seeker? No she is very suspect.

And BTW, did you notice that the case in question quickly fizzled out and went away when the GOP found that they could make real hay with Monica?

And while we are at it, did you notice that the actual scandal involved a totally different woman?

287 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:29:03am

re: #272 Erik The Red

I am going to have to pull out some good jokes later tonight.

Oh, please keep your pants up./

288 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:29:14am

re: #240 Ward Cleaver

And instead cover her with a paper sack.

That once held a tuna on rye with a kosher dill.

289 Erik The Red  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:29:15am

re: #279 Danny

Assuming you dont get downdinged, of course.

This is true. I don't remember getting to many downers for my jokes. Other comments yes. Jokes no.

290 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:29:19am

re: #242 Dianna

Fixed that. I know you appreciate precision.

Wrong. Google it. There are variant spellings.

291 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:29:20am

re: #272 Erik The Red I've whored enough for today. Feel free to take over the watch!

292 Kenneth  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:29:21am

re: #274 Occasional Reader

Hell, anyone who ever wrote things with a typewriter MS Office knew it!

293 Erik The Red  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:29:44am

re: #287 calcajun

Oh, please keep your pants up./

LMAO.

294 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:30:02am

re: #248 buzzsawmonkey

"The Princess and the Peabody" would be a great title for an expose of Mapes' role in this sorry affair.

She ain't no princess.

295 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:30:18am

re: #261 Dianna

Thank you - I could not remember the boy's name.

See? I'm not just about the dick jokes!

(I run about 50-50 on the average day...)

296 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:30:21am

re: #294 MandyManners

She ain't no princess.

More like the frog.

297 Danny  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:30:40am

re: #289 Erik The Red

This is true. I don't remember getting to many downers for my jokes. Other comments yes. Jokes no.

I gave you a handicap anyway...just in case. ;-)

298 HelloDare  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:30:44am

re: #229 MandyManners

She should be stripped of her Peabody.

Or it should be put where the sun doesn't shine. Figuratively, of course.

299 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:30:50am

re: #188 Kosh's Shadow

At that time, the National Guard was flying obsolete aircraft in general; they got the ones the Air Force didn't want any more. Late 1960's/ early 1970's, the Massachusetts ANG was flying F-84's (talk about old) and then replaced them with F-106's (somewhat upgraded F-102's)
This from when I was in the Explorers and we got to visit the ANG at Otis AFB.

Quite true. The most likely reason Bush was not assigned to a more modern aircraft was that the ANG just did not have them. Except for a single squadron in Iceland, the F-102 was withdrawn from regular units by 1970 but stayed on in ANG until 1977. The standard Vietnam era fighter, the F-4 Phantom, did not make it to ANG units until 1972, the year Bush left service. Even then they were the early "C" models that were being phased out in the war zone. Bush's unit, the 111th FIS kept the F-102 until 1975, when they transitioned to the F-101 Voodoo, and did not receive the F-4 until 1978.

300 Kenneth  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:31:00am

re: #282 Dianna

Ah, my mistake. Sorry.

I'll just butt out now.

301 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:31:02am

re: #288 MandyManners

That once held a tuna on rye with a kosher dill.

Oh dear. Oh dear.

That is most wicked.

/applause

302 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:31:21am

re: #290 Cato the Elder

Wrong. Google it. There are variant spellings.

Viz. William of Ockham (also Occam, Hockham, or any of several other spellings, pronounced /ˈɒkəm/)

303 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:31:36am

re: #168 MrSilverDragon

That reminds me of the time I called into work sick and told them I had anal glaucoma. When they asked what that was, I told them "I have a condition where I don't see my ass coming into work."

Lol. Just sent that to an Ophthalmologist I know.

304 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:31:44am

re: #229 MandyManners

She should be stripped of her Peabody.

Has the NYT ever returned Duranty's Pulitzer?

305 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:31:55am

re: #232 ear-to-hear

'Most people have assumed that Mapes and CBS were tricked into airing the memos — but what if it was deliberate?'

You are quite clearly insane and a radical, extremist, reactionary, right wing tool. Don't you realize that it is Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly that are the real threat to our republic?
/

306 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:32:31am

re: #277 JamesTKirk

There's also the established fact that they had plenty of evidence in hand which contradicted the obviously forged memo. Even if they were blind enough not to spot the forgery, they still knew it was disproved by the weight of other evidence they had -- but they specifically chose to go with the memos and pretend that the other evidence didn't exist because they had no interest whatsoever in truth or accuracy. They wanted to smear Bush, so that's what they did.

Even if, to give them an amazingly vast benefit of the doubt, they did not spot the memos as the obvious forgeries that they were, they should have reported all of evidence, and both sides of the story. They didn't. It was a planned and deliberate hatchet job from start to finish.

It's not as if CBS didn't have the budget to hire several document experts.

307 Erik The Red  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:32:45am

BBL. Got to go and fetch my beautiful monsters from school. :)

308 jcm  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:32:47am

re: #304 JamesTKirk

Has the NYT ever returned Duranty's Pulitzer?

Sit in the trophy case in a pool of blood.

309 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:32:48am
310 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:32:56am

re: #302 Cato the Elder

Viz. William of Ockham (also Occam, Hockham, or any of several other spellings, pronounced /ˈɒkəm/)


Opinion on how to spell his name is split down the middle. /

311 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:33:04am

re: #304 JamesTKirk

Has the NYT ever returned Duranty's Pulitzer?

No--they kind of like the patina of dried blood that's all over it.

312 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:33:07am

re: #292 Kenneth

I suspect you're kidding, but I could actually see how someone, say, under the age of 30 wouldn't spot the forgery right away. Every document they ever produced had perfect kerning and all that, so this one wouldn't jump out at them. But as someone who typed his way through high school and college, the fakery was glaringly obvious to me.

313 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:33:09am

re: #283 Creeping Eruption

Don't you mean "sexual Piccolos?"/

Let's hope your pun is a mere flute.

314 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:33:26am

re: #308 jcm

GMTA

315 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:33:37am

re: #299 Shiplord Kirel

Quite true. The most likely reason Bush was not assigned to a more modern aircraft was that the ANG just did not have them. Except for a single squadron in Iceland, the F-102 was withdrawn from regular units by 1970 but stayed on in ANG until 1977. The standard Vietnam era fighter, the F-4 Phantom, did not make it to ANG units until 1972, the year Bush left service. Even then they were the early "C" models that were being phased out in the war zone. Bush's unit, the 111th FIS kept the F-102 until 1975, when they transitioned to the F-101 Voodoo, and did not receive the F-4 until 1978.

Wow. It wasn't until recently that ANG units got somewhat modern aircraft.

316 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:33:38am

re: #306 MandyManners

It's not as if CBS didn't have the budget to hire several document experts.

If they did, they might have gotten more realistic looking forgeries.

317 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:33:42am
318 BlueCanuck  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:34:12am

re: #313 MandyManners

Let's hope your pun is a mere flute.

He's just trying to sax up the thread.

319 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:34:16am

re: #296 Ward Cleaver

More like the frog.

Her brain is filled with warts.

320 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:34:18am

Anyone else notice how I can be on a thread, just minding my own business, and someone will inevitably raise the name of the wretched quitta from Wasilla? Odd, that.

321 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:34:26am

re: #313 MandyManners

Let's hope your pun is a mere flute.

Try not to humiliate him. Remember how he hates to look like a bassoon.

322 jcm  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:34:41am

re: #314 calcajun

GMTA

LOL!

323 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:35:05am

re: #315 Ward Cleaver

Wow. It wasn't until recently that ANG units got somewhat modern aircraft.

Good thing the Mexicans never got too frisky...

324 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:35:14am

re: #298 HelloDare

Or it should be put where the sun doesn't shine. Figuratively, of course.

It would hurt.

325 Danny  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:35:35am

OK looks like we have a new answer to the first of the LGF health care questions:

Question 1.1: What is the name of the bill?

Answer: "The Ted Kennedy Memorial Health Care Bill"

326 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:35:37am

re: #193 Ward Cleaver

That's even worse than Beck's czar-phobia. Good grief.

This is truly lies and distortion.
This is the leadership that puts out this crap.
And many wonder why Obama got so much traction.
This kind of thing is an insult to thinking people regardless of political persuasion.
Exploiting the uncritical base is a an irresponsible and very dangerous thing to do.

327 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:35:42am

re: #320 Cato the Elder

They know you're here.

328 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:35:50am

re: #324 MandyManners

It would hurt.

Well...

Good.

329 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:35:53am

re: #301 OldLineTexan

Oh dear. Oh dear.

That is most wicked.

/applause

*curtsey*

330 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:35:57am

re: #317 buzzsawmonkey

re: #304 JamesTKirk

Has the NYT ever returned Duranty's Pulitzer?

I thought that was the Bullshitzer Prize.

An aside: I actually did hear "Inka-dinka-doo" at Starbuck's earlier today. I thought of you.

331 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:36:20am

re: #325 Danny

OK looks like we have a new answer to the first of the LGF health care questions:

Question 1.1: What is the name of the bill?

Answer: "The Ted Kennedy Memorial Health Care Bill"

Vote for this bill, and you too can be just as healthy as the late Senator!

332 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:36:33am

re: #304 JamesTKirk

Has the NYT ever returned Duranty's Pulitzer?

HA! Not in a million years.

333 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:36:46am

re: #226 anotherindyfilmguy

Did you see my response to you on that thread? I hope so- I tried to make a case for the use of such mechanisms, and why they're important.

334 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:37:00am

re: #315 Ward Cleaver

Wow. It wasn't until recently that ANG units got somewhat modern aircraft.

Iirc, the policy of assigning new types to the ANG started with the "total force" concept in the 1980s. Even now, ANG lags behind the regular force in new equipment but not nearly to the extent that was standard practice in the old days.
Some of the first F-22s were assigned to ANG, for example, but other units still have early model F-15s and 16s that are long gone from regular service.

335 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:37:01am

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

Is it really necessary to denigrate a man's service simply because you don't like his politics?

Kerry attempted to use his military service to bolster his presidential campaign. Remember "reporting for duty"?

As someone who actually did serve a full tour in Vietnam, I believe that I can denigrate someone who used 3 questionable purple hearts to have himself rotated home after barely 3 months in country, and later brags about his service.

336 Kenneth  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:37:11am

re: #312 Occasional Reader

I remember following this story on LGF as it broke. I downloaded the memos from the CBS website (before they stuffed them down the rabbit hole). I looked at them and puzzled... there was something very oddly familiar about these memos, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Then Charles put up the throbbing memo gif and I went Bingo! That was it. It looked like every note I had written in MS Office, default settings & all.

337 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:37:16am

re: #309 buzzsawmonkey

Not even deposed Media Royalty?

(She was deposed for the trial, wasn't she? In addition to losing her job?)

She's not even a chamber maid.

338 opnion  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:37:29am

re: #316 JamesTKirk

If they did, they might have gotten more realistic looking forgeries.

The timing was obvious that Mapes & Rather were trying to change the projected outcome of an election with the forgery.
When confronted with the nature of the document neither was contrite.
Both Mapes & Rather insisted that the assertions in the memo were true, even if forged. It was a desperate attempt to keep the scam alive.

339 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:37:33am

re: #296 Ward Cleaver

More like the frog.

If she is a frog, then perhaps she's done a tad-pole dance or two in her time?

340 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:37:35am
341 Noah's Arrrgh  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:37:46am

re: #131 jcm

The point being, GWB was not lacking in courage. Strapping on a -102 took courage, as did riding a Swift Boat into combat.

Claiming that GWB avoid service in 'Nam because he was a coward is a lie.

Let's call the courage thing a wash.

Mapes an Rather used their positions for a political agenda.

It's pretty clear that CBS was in full-on get Bush mode, and wanted to use anything to tarnish him. What's amazing is that they chose to fault him on his courage. GWB has his weaknesses, as we all do, but lack of courage clearly isn't one of them. Trying to pull off such an obvious lie was bound to fail right from the start. Setting aside for the moment the moral issues related to calumny, I wonder: why weren't they smart enough to figure that out?

342 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:38:23am

re: #286 LudwigVanQuixote

Frankly? No one listened, because the circumstances were the sort of thing men laugh about, since it was merely humiliating and disgusting, not rape. Bluntly, Jones was not attractive, so there was the snickering, "Yeah, right - you wish."

As to her seeking the spotlight? Really? I haven't noticed her since Clinton was finally punished.

Yes, the fact that she finally got some help for her case was politically motivated.

Your phrasing offended me. You implied that if one is not a dewy-eyed, pretty, innocent, one must simply tolerate being humiliated and treated as a receptical for a powerful man's temporary lust.

343 Kenneth  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:38:25am

re: #320 Cato the Elder

Anyone else notice how I can be on a thread, just minding my own business, and someone will inevitably raise the name of the wretched quitta from Wasilla? Odd, that.

I do';t know what you're talking about. We just like pallin' around with you.

344 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:38:26am

re: #316 JamesTKirk

If they did, they might have gotten more realistic looking forgeries.

Then we wouldn't have a throbber.

345 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:38:27am

re: #309 buzzsawmonkey

Not even deposed Media Royalty?

(She was deposed for the trial, wasn't she? In addition to losing her job?)

She's the "Anastasia" of media royalty, then.

346 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:38:29am

Cry me a rivah.

347 jcm  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:38:34am

re: #325 Danny

OK looks like we have a new answer to the first of the LGF health care questions:

Question 1.1: What is the name of the bill?

Answer: "The Ted Kennedy Memorial Health Care Bill"

Repost form earlier today...

Democratic Health Care Bill Divulges IRS Tax Data

Section 431(a) of the bill says that the IRS must divulge taxpayer identity information, including the filing status, the modified adjusted gross income, the number of dependents, and "other information as is prescribed by" regulation. That information will be provided to the new Health Choices Commissioner and state health programs and used to determine who qualifies for "affordability credits."
348 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:38:45am

re: #331 JamesTKirk

Vote for this bill, and you too can be just as healthy as the late Senator!

My daughter passed out in the tunnel between the legislative offices and Capitol and was treated by the doctor on call in the clinic there. Afterwards we asked if we needed to pay something or show an insurance card. The doctor on call said "no, the taxpayers have taken care of it".

I want congressional care full time- it is a sweet deal!

349 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:38:49am

re: #333 Sharmuta

Did you see my response to you on that thread? I hope so- I tried to make a case for the use of such mechanisms, and why they're important.

Yes. I just disagree about boycotts and their use for intimidation. In some of my responses I attempted to point out suing as the better alternative to mob rule but I guess I just failed to express myself effectively.

350 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:38:50am
351 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:38:55am

re: #290 Cato the Elder

Wrong. Google it. There are variant spellings.

Fine, whatever.

352 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:38:56am

re: #320 Cato the Elder

Anyone else notice how I can be on a thread, just minding my own business, and someone will inevitably raise the name of the wretched quitta from Wasilla? Odd, that.

Jes trying to be helpful...thought maybe you forgot
/ ;)

353 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:39:13am

re: #344 MandyManners

Then we wouldn't have a throbber.

Forged memos are media Viagra?

354 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:39:18am

re: #318 BlueCanuck

He's just trying to sax up the thread.

Is that how you reed it?

355 Last Mohican  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:39:20am

re: #320 Cato the Elder

Anyone else notice how I can be on a thread, just minding my own business, and someone will inevitably raise the name of the wretched quitta from Wasilla? Odd, that.

Indeed. It almost seems like people around here go around heaping nasty attacks on her, even when it has little or nothing to do with the topic at hand!

Such incivility.

356 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:39:26am

re: #341 Noah's Arrrgh

Trying to pull off such an obvious lie was bound to fail right from the start. Setting aside for the moment the moral issues related to calumny, I wonder: why weren't they smart enough to figure that out?

(1) They figured no one else in the MSM would call them on it. They weren't expecting Charles and the Lizards.

(2) They figured that even if the truth did come out, by the time it did, the damage would be done. The election would have passed, and Kerry would be in office. Again, they weren't expecting Charles and the Lizards.

357 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:39:45am

re: #321 calcajun

Try not to humiliate him. Remember how he hates to look like a bassoon.

Why do I feel like people are harping on me?

358 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:39:55am

re: #336 Kenneth

I remember following this story on LGF as it broke. I downloaded the memos from the CBS website (before they stuffed them down the rabbit hole). I looked at them and puzzled... there was something very oddly familiar about these memos, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Then Charles put up the throbbing memo gif and I went Bingo! That was it. It looked like every note I had written in MS Office, default settings & all.


Think of how the world would be different of Charles were a WordPerfect user! /

359 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:39:58am

re: #344 MandyManners

Then we wouldn't have a throbber.

I always have a throbber.

360 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:40:04am

re: #355 Last Mohican

Indeed. It almost seems like people around here go around heaping nasty attacks on her, even when it has little or nothing to do with the topic at hand!

Such incivility.

ROTFLMAO.

361 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:40:36am

re: #356 JamesTKirk

No one ever expects the Lizard army! and now-zee comfy pillow!

362 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:40:41am

re: #302 Cato the Elder

Got it, fine.

We all know you can't bear to have made even the smallest error.

363 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:40:53am

re: #357 Creeping Eruption

Why do I feel like people are harping on me?

Because there's too much sax and violins on TV.

364 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:40:54am

re: #357 Creeping Eruption

Why do I feel like people are harping on me?

What gives you that vibe?

365 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:40:58am

re: #321 calcajun

Try not to humiliate him. Remember how he hates to look like a bassoon.

I'll toss him a trombone.

366 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:41:17am

re: #359 JamesTKirk

I always have a throbber.

+1 for the laugh, -2 for the TMI.

367 What, me worry?  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:41:17am

re: #320 Cato the Elder

Anyone else notice how I can be on a thread, just minding my own business, and someone will inevitably raise the name of the wretched quitta from Wasilla? Odd, that.

LOL They secretly love you.

368 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:41:33am

re: #320 Cato the Elder

Anyone else notice how I can be on a thread, just minding my own business, and someone will inevitably raise the name of the wretched quitta from Wasilla? Odd, that.


A lot of stalkers just claim they were minding their own business and just happened to be in the same place as the subjects of their attention. /

369 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:41:48am
370 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:41:49am

re: #361 anotherindyfilmguy

No one ever expects the Lizard army! and now-zee comfy pillow CHAIR!

Cripes. Get the quote right, dammit. Some things I do take seriously.

371 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:41:57am

re: #366 MrSilverDragon

+1 for the laugh, -2 for the TMI.

TMI would be if I started providing measurements or something.

372 Racer X  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:42:05am

re: #347 jcm

How else can you spread the wealth around?

373 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:42:18am

re: #359 JamesTKirk

I always have a throbber.


Cialis abuse. The tragic untold story of many middle aged men. /

374 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:42:32am

Laugh of the day.

Guy goes backpacking in Europe. Tells GF, calls to say goodbye, all that. But she's not a good listener.

Read the emails.

375 kansas  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:42:57am

Flying jets or this? And he gets 3 1/2 more years to further damage the US. This is gonna leave a mark.
[Link: www.theinsider.com...]

376 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:43:28am

re: #353 OldLineTexan

Forged memos are media Viagra?

The blood definitely left their brains.

377 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:43:41am

re: #365 MandyManners

I'll toss him a trombone.


Sac his but?

378 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:44:38am

re: #347 jcm

Repost form earlier today...

Democratic Health Care Bill Divulges IRS Tax Data

Section 431(a) of the bill says that the IRS must divulge taxpayer identity information, including the filing status, the modified adjusted gross income, the number of dependents, and "other information as is prescribed by" regulation. That information will be provided to the new Health Choices Commissioner and state health programs and used to determine who qualifies for "affordability credits."


Folks don't take to kindly when their privacy rights are violated.
PRIVACY - PRIVACY - PRIVACY

379 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:44:39am

re: #330 Occasional ReaderHey OR,
Ya like Starbucks eh?
My son manages a store in FL.sends me the good Columbian
flavored coffee every now and then!
A 19 year old kid drove a car through the front of his store a week ago...
The car is lodged in wall ... glass and ceiling tiles everywhere
dust still in the air a customer walks in and asks "Can I got decafe latte??
...STANDING next to the car in store!!
My son gets up off the floor (cleaning up) looks at this
guy ..at the car...Your kidding right?...NO!!
Starbucks drinkers are addicted or what?? LOL

380 HelloDare  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:44:46am

re: #325 Danny

OK looks like we have a new answer to the first of the LGF health care questions:

Question 1.1: What is the name of the bill?

Answer: "The Ted Kennedy Memorial Health Care Bill"

They're adding a rider to the original bill. Booze, condoms and car flotation devices will be covered.

381 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:44:53am

re: #349 anotherindyfilmguy

Yes. I just disagree about boycotts and their use for intimidation. In some of my responses I attempted to point out suing as the better alternative to mob rule but I guess I just failed to express myself effectively.

And if people wanted to boycott CBS for the Bush story- would that have been their right? There has to be a mechanism in a free speech society where the public is allowed to shun speech deemed inappropriate by the people themselves. The public couldn't sue Rather and Mapes, but Bush can. Where does that leave the rest of us though? It leaves us with shunning, and those may include boycotts and calls for sponsors to drop their support.

382 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:45:15am

re: #359 JamesTKirk

I always have a throbber.

Yeah, I knew I had walked right into about three seconds after I hit the post button.

383 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:45:17am

re: #369 buzzsawmonkey

So you think it's acceptable for the Chairman of the RNC so sign his name on to a document containing blatant lies? It may not bother you but it bothers me. Truth matters.

384 UFO TOFU  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:45:51am

re: #359 JamesTKirk

That's that 50/50 thing.

385 kansas  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:45:51am

re: #369 buzzsawmonkey

I guess you must be registered as an independent, Killgore, and therefore never get moronic surveys since there is no "Independent Party."

Me, I get surveys of this sort from the Democrats all the time. Fearmongering partisan lies are routine features of them. Your trying to gin up this "party of Glenn Beck" crap as if hitting the base voters with boogey-boogey stuff is somehow unique to the Republicans is childish.

My Mom was a Democrat. When I was taking care of her before she dided, I could not believe the scare tactics her Democrat representative would use in mailers. Starve the children, take away medicare, take away social security, yada...And that was Ike Skelton a Missouri Democrat who is kind of reasonable. But anything to win.

386 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:45:57am

re: #382 MandyManners

Yeah, I knew I had walked right into about three seconds after I hit the post button.

Don't tell my wife that you walked into my throbber.

387 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:45:57am

re: #365 MandyManners

I'll toss him a trombone.

Oboe, keeping up this thread is getting difficult

388 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:46:03am

re: #198 JamesTKirk

They did not have that sort of power at the time, to manipulate the rules, laws, government, and media to the benefit of their family members.

They weren't the Kennedys.

Don't talk nonsense. If the Bush family really did not want their son to go to Vietnam, he was not going. Once again, this isn't a slur on the family, but they were not the kind of people whose son was going into combat if he didn't choose to.

I don't really car about this issue, but I gota laugh out of the bit there.
SFZ is right. They could do whatever they wanted to do to get junior whatever slot he wanted. They were a privileged family much like... the Kennedy's.

Not the Kennedy's? Come on!
(from Wiki)
The Bush family is a prominent American family. Along with many members who have been successful bankers and businessmen, across three generations the family includes two U.S. Senators, one Supreme Court Justice, two Governors, one Vice President and two Presidents. George Herbert Walker and Barbara Bush have been married for 63 years, holding the record for the longest married presidential couple. Peter Schweizer, author of a biography of the family, has described the Bushes as "the most successful political dynasty in American history."[1] According to some on-line sources,[2][3][4] the Bush family is of primarily English and German descent.

They were the WASP version that the Kennedy's struggled so hard to be, so please don't just post stuff that is so blatantly wrong.

389 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:46:15am

re: #375 kansas

Flying jets or this? And he gets 3 1/2 more years to further damage the US. This is gonna leave a mark.
[Link: www.theinsider.com...]

Yes, but he didn't exhale. /

390 Noah's Arrrgh  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:46:47am

re: #356 JamesTKirk

(1) They figured no one else in the MSM would call them on it. They weren't expecting Charles and the Lizards.

(2) They figured that even if the truth did come out, by the time it did, the damage would be done. The election would have passed, and Kerry would be in office. Again, they weren't expecting Charles and the Lizards.

Good point: A week before the election in which Boxer was elected to senate, the L.A. Times reported, based on false information from a democratic operative, that her opponent, Herschensohn, was visiting strip clubs. A week later he lost the election. Not long after it was clear the whole strip club thing was made up. They did it, because it worked. Maybe after this experience they'll think twice.

391 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:47:08am
392 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:47:14am

Back to my salt mine. Otherwise known as the world of hopeless proposals written by people who are playing non-profit buzz-word bingo.

393 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:47:35am

re: #164 JamesTKirk

Occam's razor - simplest explanation is that the military wasn't proceeding in the smartest manner and/or there was a lack of communication between the guys in the Pentagon who decided to decommission the plane and the guys out in the Texas ANG still using them.

Point here - at that time the F-102 was not being decommissioned, it was being withdrawn from air combat in Vietnam. That decision would have been made long after GWB had been trained in the F-102. There is no way anyone could have known that the F-102 was being withdrawn from combat service when GWB signed up to fly the F-102.

394 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:47:40am

re: #342 Dianna

Frankly? No one listened, because the circumstances were the sort of thing men laugh about, since it was merely humiliating and disgusting, not rape. Bluntly, Jones was not attractive, so there was the snickering, "Yeah, right - you wish."

As to her seeking the spotlight? Really? I haven't noticed her since Clinton was finally punished.

Yes, the fact that she finally got some help for her case was politically motivated.

Your phrasing offended me. You implied that if one is not a dewy-eyed, pretty, innocent, one must simply tolerate being humiliated and treated as a receptical for a powerful man's temporary lust.

I certainly did not mean to imply such a thing at all. I meant to imply that while it is indeed possible that she had a legitimate grievance, the case for it being legitimate is strongly eroded by the delay in the complaint, the money, the political motivations of the players and the fact that bringing the case no would bring a place in the spotlight, where as closer to the time of the actual event, would not have produced such instant fame.

These are very legitimate concerns.

In the absolute best case, she had a grievance that was legitimate and for whatever reasons took years and years to go to court. In the worst case, She was bought and paid for by political enemies of the president - who were certainly happy to spend millions on the case itself and ended up turning up nothing about that case except a different one involving a different woman - who also was not that beautiful (not that the looks of the woman matter at all).

The point is that Monica was also not the sweetest, most innocent or prettiest woman ever, but that one stuck.

395 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:47:41am

re: #374 Cato the Elder

Laugh of the day.

Guy goes backpacking in Europe. Tells GF, calls to say goodbye, all that. But she's not a good listener.

Read the emails.

She must have been a "natural blonde". If he really told her--and he knew she was absent-minded--he should have e-mailed, done something to memorialize the event. Of well.

396 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:47:46am

re: #391 taxfreekiller

What lie that John Kerry has told bothers you the most?

His denial of being Herman Munster.

397 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:47:53am

re: #386 JamesTKirk

Yikes!

398 kansas  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:48:03am

re: #389 DaddyG

Yes, but he didn't exhale. /

Funny how military service is unimportant when Democrats don't do it.

399 Bob Dillon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:48:06am

The continued revelations about the expanding lack of ethics and integrity is not that surprising.

Kind of like rot spreading.

What I found impressive was GWB's non-response to all this stuff. He just let them rant. I could be mistaken but don't recall any time of him doing so.

400 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:48:10am

re: #387 Creeping Eruption

Oboe, keeping up this thread is getting difficult

Don't let the puns snare you.

401 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:48:17am

re: #325 Danny

OK looks like we have a new answer to the first of the LGF health care questions:

Question 1.1: What is the name of the bill?

Answer: "The Ted Kennedy Memorial Health Care Bill"

Do they really want to name a bill to reform health care "memorial" anything?

402 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:48:23am

re: #388 doubter4444

Yes, the Air Force sells pilot training.

And if you want to be safe, you become a fighter pilot.

I am laughing my ass off at the ignorance that this line of reasoning involves, the sheer black-helicopter militia vaxxer troofer ESSENCE that is needed to create this line of back-room deals cloaked in sekrit powers is staggering.

403 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:48:44am

re: #362 Dianna

Got it, fine.

We all know you can't bear to have made even the smallest error.

Take a chill pill, Di. If you had been right, I'd have been grateful.

What, I should thank you for incorrectly correcting me?

Did I pull your ponytail in school?

404 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:49:11am
405 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:49:16am

re: #388 doubter4444

The Bush family is a prominent American family. Along with many members who have been successful bankers and businessmen, across three generations the family includes two U.S. Senators, one Supreme Court Justice, two Governors, one Vice President and two Presidents.

Most of those positions happened after W's tour in the TANG. After all, one of those Governors and Presidents was him, so you can't use those (or his brother Jeb's governorship of Florida, of his father becoming VP and then P a decade later) as evidence of the Bush family's influence during the 1970s.

406 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:49:40am

re: #392 Dianna

Back to my salt mine. Otherwise known as the world of hopeless proposals written by people who are playing non-profit buzz-word bingo.

Deer peepul wif munnee,

I kant rite gud, so pleez giv me sum uv ur munnee so I kan haz skewel.

/

407 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:50:00am

re: #388 doubter4444

They just lack the Camelot moniker. Somehow 'South Fork' just lacks the same imagery or regality.

408 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:50:00am
409 kansas  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:50:10am

re: #383 Killgore Trout

So you think it's acceptable for the Chairman of the RNC so sign his name on to a document containing blatant lies? It may not bother you but it bothers me. Truth matters.

Truth?

[Link: kevindayhoff.blogspot.com...]

410 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:50:13am

re: #379 reloadingisnotahobby

Hey OR,
Ya like Starbucks eh?
My son manages a store in FL.sends me the good Columbian
flavored coffee every now and then!
A 19 year old kid drove a car through the front of his store a week ago...
The car is lodged in wall ... glass and ceiling tiles everywhere
dust still in the air a customer walks in and asks "Can I got decafe latte??
...STANDING next to the car in store!!
My son gets up off the floor (cleaning up) looks at this
guy ..at the car...Your kidding right?...NO!!
Starbucks drinkers are addicted or what?? LOL

I like Starbucks just fine, and the contrarian in my makes me like 'em even more (since it's chic, in practically all circles, to say you hate Starbucks).

And I do think they play an interesting, well thought-out music selection, especially compared with the piped-in crap we're subjected to at most retail businesses.

411 Noah's Arrrgh  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:50:15am

re: #387 Creeping Eruption

Oboe, keeping up this thread is getting difficult

The problem with the Mapes memo is they had to forge the key signature.

412 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:50:15am

re: #405 JamesTKirk

Most of those positions happened after W's tour in the TANG. After all, one of those Governors and Presidents was him, so you can't use those (or his brother Jeb's governorship of Florida, of his father becoming VP and then P a decade later) as evidence of the Bush family's influence during the 1970s.

Stop taking all the fun outta BDS, you Kirk, you.

413 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:50:28am

re: #401 CyanSnowHawk

Do they really want to name a bill to reform health care "memorial" anything?

I once knew a veterinarian named "Slaughter".

414 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:51:03am

re: #403 Cato the Elder

*sigh*

"Occam" is the usual spelling, and I am under the impression that we're trying to communicate clearly.

"Billy of Ockham" might not have been clear to everyone, and your joke lost.

Never fucking mind.

415 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:51:25am

re: #400 MandyManners

Don't let the puns snare you.

It's getting rather bass and low, too.

416 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:51:33am

re: #381 Sharmuta

And there is part of the problem: When the people who are affected by it won't fight back effectively then why are we electing them?

People can boycott CBS by turning off the channel but that is different than a political group directly pressuring CBS's advertisers to drop them.

417 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:51:53am

re: #413 MandyManners

I once knew a veterinarian named "Slaughter".

You can't spell "slaughter" without "laughter"!!

418 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:51:57am

re: #411 Noah's Arrrgh

The problem with the Mapes memo is they had to forge the key signature.

She thought she was sharp, but it turned out flat. It's only natural.

419 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:52:18am

re: #407 Sharmuta

They just lack the Camelot moniker. Somehow 'South Fork' just lacks the same imagery or regality.

How about "South Park"?

420 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:52:20am

I don't know why political parties would bother to tell us the truth when we celebrate being lied to. Maybe if we demanded the truth, they would change their ways, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Lying works.

421 lostlakehiker  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:52:41am

re: #98 HelloDare

Courage for Dan Rather, by Mary Mapes September 20, 2007

It has been three years since we aired our much-malignedrefuted story on President Bush's National Guard service and reaped a whirlwind of right-wing outrage and talk radio retaliation rebuttal. That part of the assault on our story was not unexpected. In September 2004, anyone who had the audacity to even ask impertinent questionsfake documents about the president was certain to be figuratively kicked in the head by the usual suspects.

What was different in our case was the brand new and bruising power of the conservative blogosphere, particularly the extremists computer literate among them. They formed a tightly knit community of keyboard assault artists who saw themselves as avenging angels of the right, determined to root out and decimate anything they believed to be disruptive to their worldview.

To themus, the fact that the president wimped out on his National Guard duty during the Vietnam War -- and then covered it up did his duty-- was no big deal. Our having the temerity to say it otherwise on national TV was unforgivable and we had to be destroyed. They organized, with the help of longtime well-connected Republican activists, and began their assault...

...And we showed for the first time a cache of documents allegedly written by Bush's former commander. The documents supported a mountainmolehill of other evidence that young Bush had dodged his duty and not been punished. They did not in any way diverge from the information in the sketchy pieces of the president's official record made available by the White House or the National Guard. In fact, to the few people who had gone to the trouble of examining the Bush recordlost all connection with reality, these papers filled in some of the blanks.

We reported that since these documents were copies, not originals, they could not be fully authenticated, at least not in the legal sense. They could not be subjected to tests to determine the age of the paper or the ink. We did get corroboration on the content and support from a couple of longtime document analysts saying they saw nothing indicating that the memos were not real.

Instantly, the far right blogosphere bully boys pronounced themselves experts on document analysis, and began attacking the form and font in the memos. They screamedprovided objections that ultimately proved to have no basis in fact be valid. ButAnd they captured the argument. They dominated the discussion by churning out gigabytes of mind-numbing internet dissertations about the typeface in the memos, focusing on the curl at the end of the "a," the dip on the top of the "t," the spacing, the superscript, which typewriters were used in the military in 1972. All stuff way over our heads, and, we hope, yours. So we argued.

ItOurs was a deceptive approach, and it worked.but it didn't work.

Courage, buddy. Courage to us all.


There, fixed it up.

422 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:52:48am

re: #414 Dianna

*sigh*

"Occam" is the usual spelling, and I am under the impression that we're trying to communicate clearly.

"Billy of Ockham" might not have been clear to everyone, and your joke lost.

Never fucking mind.

Dianna, take a break, go to a range, and put a few rounds through your Kymber.

///

423 jcm  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:52:59am

re: #405 JamesTKirk

Most of those positions happened after W's tour in the TANG. After all, one of those Governors and Presidents was him, so you can't use those (or his brother Jeb's governorship of Florida, of his father becoming VP and then P a decade later) as evidence of the Bush family's influence during the 1970s.

Jeeze, will all know Bush is a short form of Bilderberger!

//

424 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:53:05am
425 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:53:14am

re: #406 OldLineTexan

Deer peepul wif munnee,

I kant rite gud, so pleez giv me sum uv ur munnee so I kan haz skewel.

/

That would be an improvement.

Every once in a while, I grab a particularly egregious example and post it - though of course I excise the names and any possible identifiers - mostly to relieve my feelings.

426 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:53:24am

re: #419 calcajun

How about "South Park"?

Works for me. It's always between Giant Douche and Turd Sandwich, and meanwhile we're still Cows.

/

427 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:53:25am

re: #417 JamesTKirk

You can't spell "slaughter" without "laughter"!!

The butcher with the sharpest knife has the warmest heart.--Patrick McGoohan.

428 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:53:40am

re: #379 reloadingisnotahobby

With a little creative use of ellipses I can make that sound like a Hunter S. Thompson novel...

Hey OR,
Ya like...eh?
My son...in FL.sends me the good Columbian...every now and then!
...drove a car through the front of his store a week ago...
The car is lodged in wall ... glass and ceiling tiles everywhere
dust still in the air...walks in and asks "Can I...??"
...STANDING next to the car in store!!
...gets up off the floor looks at this
guy ..at the car...Your ... addicted or what?? LOL

429 jamgarr  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:53:41am

re: #310 DaddyG

Opinion on how to spell his name is split down the middle. /

I suggest "Ocum". It seems the simplest.

430 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:53:56am

re: #415 calcajun

It's getting rather bass and low, too.

I'm in treble 'cause I'm running out of puns.

431 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:54:03am

re: #405 JamesTKirk

Most of those positions happened after W's tour in the TANG. After all, one of those Governors and Presidents was him, so you can't use those (or his brother Jeb's governorship of Florida, of his father becoming VP and then P a decade later) as evidence of the Bush family's influence during the 1970s.

Dammit, Jim! You, of all people, should know about the complexities of time travel. Remember that time Joan Collins almost allowed Hitler to win the war?!

432 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:54:03am

re: #418 MrSilverDragon

She thought she was sharp, but it turned out flat. It's only natural.

Yes, and she had a clef palette, too.

433 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:54:08am

re: #413 MandyManners
Or an OBGYN named Cletus Hyimen...
A funeral home call Boxes R Us...

434 opnion  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:54:14am

re: #369 buzzsawmonkey

I guess you must be registered as an independent, Killgore, and therefore never get moronic surveys since there is no "Independent Party."

Me, I get surveys of this sort from the Democrats all the time. Fearmongering partisan lies are routine features of them. Your trying to gin up this "party of Glenn Beck" crap as if hitting the base voters with boogey-boogey stuff is somehow unique to the Republicans is childish.

Beck is not a Republican & says so frequently.
This Party of Beck or Party of Limbaugh is bull.
Now the Dems as the Party of Soros is another thing. One of his people did desribe the Democrat Party as bought & paid for.

435 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:54:30am

re: #430 MandyManners

I'm in treble 'cause I'm running out of puns.

You must find your balance then.

436 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:54:44am

re: #405 JamesTKirk

Most of those positions happened after W's tour in the TANG. After all, one of those Governors and Presidents was him, so you can't use those (or his brother Jeb's governorship of Florida, of his father becoming VP and then P a decade later) as evidence of the Bush family's influence during the 1970s.

Then again, we did just mention Peabody and Sherman in this thread, so have we eliminated the possibility that the Bush family has access to time travel? That would be the only thing that could tie these conspiracy theories together and make them work.

"George Bush was able to use the influence of his future Presidential self to keep his 1970s self out of Vietnam!"

437 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:54:49am

re: #417 JamesTKirk

You can't spell "slaughter" without "laughter"!!

The Kid had a pediatrician in Denver named "Payne".

438 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:55:19am

re: #374 Cato the Elder

Laugh of the day.

Guy goes backpacking in Europe. Tells GF, calls to say goodbye, all that. But she's not a good listener.

Read the emails.

OUCH! well I hope that he realized that psycho is not marriageable.

439 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:55:20am

re: #408 buzzsawmonkey


Yes, truth matters. What I am saying is that there is no difference between the lies of this Republican survey and the lies of the surveys the Democrats send out to their base.

None.


Congratulations. You must be proud of the GOP. Just as bad as Democrats is quite an achievement.
/

440 Buck  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:55:24am

re: #388 doubter4444

I don't care how much money you have or how much influence your family projects. They don't let you fly jets unless you earn it.

Now it is reasonable that they prefer to give multi million dollar aircraft to people with patriotic backgrounds and families. After all it might just cut down of the defections... BUT GWB has demonstrated that he wanted to be like his old man. He wanted the Yale experience, he wanted to fly combat, and he wanted to be President... just like daddy.

It is not a stretch of anyones imagination to see that.

441 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:55:37am

re: #425 Dianna

That would be an improvement.

Every once in a while, I grab a particularly egregious example and post it - though of course I excise the names and any possible identifiers - mostly to relieve my feelings.

So I kan haz munnee? Yays!

/

442 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:55:50am

re: #431 Occasional Reader

Dammit, Jim! You, of all people, should know about the complexities of time travel. Remember that time Joan Collins almost allowed Hitler to win the war?!

Yeah, I already realized that. See my #436.

443 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:55:58am

re: #374 Cato the Elder

Laugh of the day.

Guy goes backpacking in Europe. Tells GF, calls to say goodbye, all that. But she's not a good listener.

Read the emails.

LOL. Brutal.

444 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:56:00am

re: #416 anotherindyfilmguy

You can't infringe on the rights of people to organize either, or their rights to act as an organization.

445 kansas  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:56:07am

Here in the KC area there is a surgeon named Butcher, an orthopedic doc named Bone, and a chiropractor named Bonebrake.

446 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:56:16am

re: #410 Occasional Reader

I like Starbucks just fine, and the contrarian in my makes me like 'em even more (since it's chic, in practically all circles, to say you hate Starbucks).
And I do think they play an interesting, well thought-out music selection, especially compared with the piped-in crap we're subjected to at most retail businesses.

I actually don't like them cause I think their coffee is too strong tasting, almost burnt-like.
That aside, I admire their marketing brilliance. Years ago I had a friend who owned a coffee and donut shop in Rochester, NY. He said he made very little on the donuts, but his coffee was almost all profit. And this was back in the days when a cup was 25 cents.
I always think of his story when I see the success of what I call 'Fourbucks'.
:)

447 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:56:21am

re: #428 DaddyG

With a little creative use of ellipses I can make that sound like a Hunter S. Thompson novel...

Heh! But I think it needs the words "grapefruit" and "Samoan" thrown in there.

Now, I also have known a few good Colombians in my time... there was Ana María, and Alba, and...

448 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:57:06am

re: #413 MandyManners

I once knew a veterinarian named "Slaughter".

My best friend in elementary was named Slaughter. His Dad was FBI. That's a good name for LE.

449 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:58:00am

re: #400 MandyManners

Don't let the puns snare you.

My lack of punning-ability seems to be a cymbal of the rough day I am having

450 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:58:05am

re: #437 MandyManners

The Kid had a pediatrician in Denver named "Payne".

There is man in a nearby town with the name of "Delicious Peters".
Many of you are not believing me, I know.
I can put up a link to "whowhere" search, but it includes his address and I don't know if that would be cool to do.

but he does exist.

451 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:58:16am

re: #428 DaddyG
Thanks Daddy...I think!!
LOL

452 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:58:24am

re: #448 CyanSnowHawk

My best friend in elementary was named Slaughter. His Dad was FBI. That's a good name for LE.

I met Sgt. Slaughter once. Great guy; very friendly. Huge.

453 Buck  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:58:26am

re: #446 LGoPs

I actually don't like them cause I think their coffee is too strong tasting, almost burnt-like.
That aside, I admire their marketing brilliance. Years ago I had a friend who owned a coffee and donut shop in Rochester, NY. He said he made very little on the donuts, but his coffee was almost all profit. And this was back in the days when a cup was 25 cents.
I always think of his story when I see the success of what I call 'Fourbucks'.
:)

I have the exact same opinion...I would like you to keep an eye out for "Tim Hortons"... now in NY and coming to a town near you. A most recent, and delightly export from your friend up north.

454 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:58:42am

re: #430 MandyManners

I'm in treble 'cause I'm running out of puns.


Grab your staff and stop quavering.

455 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:58:44am

bbiab

456 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:58:45am

re: #442 JamesTKirk

Yeah, I already realized that. See my #436.

So you "already" realized what I said in #431, in your post at #436... damn time travel again!

//

457 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:58:58am

There's a store called Jugg Liquors... Yeah...

458 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:59:12am

re: #431 Occasional Reader

Dammit, Jim! You, of all people, should know about the complexities of time travel. Remember that time Joan Collins almost allowed Hitler to win the war?!

He remembers it as the time he got to boff Joan Collins.

459 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:59:26am

I just took a little walk, and I saw a 4-engined jet, 707 size (seemed a narrowbody) landing at Hanscom. I don't usually see anything that large going there; mostly business jets and small planes. I could not read the markings because it was banked away from me, but it did not appear military gray (e.g. KC-135). Someone or some assistance for the Kennedy funeral, maybe?

460 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:59:27am

re: #438 LudwigVanQuixote

OUCH! well I hope that he realized that psycho is not marriageable.

Her best line: "We've all made mistakes while you were away..." Right. Like, I boinked your friend to get even with you for being in Europe. We've made mistakes...

461 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:59:28am

re: #450 reine.de.tout

There is man in a nearby town with the name of "Delicious Peters".
Many of you are not believing me, I know.
I can put up a link to "whowhere" search, but it includes his address and I don't know if that would be cool to do.

but he does exist.

Does he live in Krotz Springs?///

462 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 11:59:44am

re: #450 reine.de.tout

There is man in a nearby town with the name of "Delicious Peters".
Many of you are not believing me, I know.
I can put up a link to "whowhere" search, but it includes his address and I don't know if that would be cool to do.

but he does exist.

Not only that, but he is the "II".

463 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:00:00pm

re: #461 calcajun

Does he live in Krotz Springs?///

Denham

464 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:00:30pm

re: #461 calcajun

Does he live in Krotz Springs?///

oh, har de har har.

465 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:00:37pm

re: #446 LGoPs

I actually don't like them cause I think their coffee is too strong tasting, almost burnt-like.

They're not my favorite coffee, but I think they're pretty good.

There's actually a smallish but growing chain of coffee stores affiliate with the Colombian "Juan Valdez" trademark, which are quite good, I'd say better quality coffee than Starbucks.

466 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:00:41pm

re: #463 reine.de.tout

Ah, too good to be true.

467 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:00:41pm

re: #457 Sharmuta

There's a store called Jugg Liquors... Yeah...

Don't forget the Dirty Dick's Crab Shack, with the T-Shirt that says "I get my crabs from Dirty Dick's!"

468 Equable  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:00:52pm

He served the air guard diligently and volunteered for Vietnam. I am entirely disgusted with how the mainscream media portrayed his position in the guard as anything less than valiant. He served the air guard more than he was required.

I appreciate President Bush's humble demeanor when approached about his service. And to "report" that he used some political clout to stay out of Vietnam...

...damn them all.

And damn Kerry for being involved, wearing his service on his sleeve with as much panache as he could muster.

Sorry for the vitriol, I am just entirely pissed off.

469 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:01:22pm

re: #464 reine.de.tout

oh, har de har har.

someone's slow on the uptake today. :)

470 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:01:47pm

re: #439 Killgore Trout

Congratulations. You must be proud of the GOP. Just as bad as Democrats is quite an achievement.
/

Republicans are amateurs compared to Democrats when it comes to lying.

471 yochanan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:01:55pm

re: #453 Buck

tim's had good baked stuff the damn coffee was in ittibitti cups. there extra large was smaller than a dunkin small cup. now if you had dunkin sized cups with tim's baked goods you would have a winner.
i like dunkin coffee but can't stand there donuts.

472 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:01:58pm

Good news break!

Cops believe 1991 kidnap victim found alive

Sheriff's officials said Thursday they believe a woman who walked into a police station had been kidnapped as an 11-year-old in 1991 outside her South Lake Tahoe home. Two people were arrested on suspicion of kidnapping.

The woman came into a San Francisco Bay area police station and said she was Jaycee Lee Dugard, a blond, ponytailed girl when she was abducted as she headed to a school bus stop 18 years ago, said sheriff's Lt. Les Lovell of the El Dorado Sheriff's Department.

"We're 99 percent sure it's her," Lovell said. He said DNA tests were being conducted. The woman was in good health. It was not immediately clear when she had surfaced at the station.

473 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:02:25pm

re: #459 Kosh's Shadow

I just took a little walk, and I saw a 4-engined jet, 707 size (seemed a narrowbody) landing at Hanscom. I don't usually see anything that large going there; mostly business jets and small planes. I could not read the markings because it was banked away from me, but it did not appear military gray (e.g. KC-135). Someone or some assistance for the Kennedy funeral, maybe?

Or setup crews for FEMA CAMP! ! !

474 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:02:28pm

re: #457 Sharmuta

There's a store called Jugg Liquors... Yeah...

I've also seen "Bristol Liquors" - and "bristol" is British slang for "breast".

475 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:02:46pm

re: #467 MrSilverDragon

Don't forget the Dirty Dick's Crab Shack, with the T-Shirt that says "I get my crabs from Dirty Dick's!"

Back before Legal Seafood was fancy, they had a poster with a scantily clad woman holding a strategically-placed fish, with the caption
"I got schrod at Legal Seafood"

476 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:02:49pm

re: #459 Kosh's Shadow

I just took a little walk, and I saw a 4-engined jet, 707 size (seemed a narrowbody) landing at Hanscom. I don't usually see anything that large going there; mostly business jets and small planes. I could not read the markings because it was banked away from me, but it did not appear military gray (e.g. KC-135). Someone or some assistance for the Kennedy funeral, maybe?

Could be a VC-135 (like the old AF1), assuming they still have those.

477 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:03:20pm
478 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:03:46pm

re: #444 Sharmuta

Is enforcement of RICO an infringement? There is organizing to take action in a legal manner and there is organizing to bully and intimidate. Getting a mob to try and influence sponsors to boycott, IMO, is borderline to outright intimidation and bullying.

Free Market=people turn the channel (happened and continues to happen to CBS)=good.

Not Free Market=party/org/mob stirred up and organized by a few tell sponsors what they can back=takeover of media=dictatorship by the best mob/org/party organizers.

Courts (somewhat no one's perfect)=place to settle issues of slander/libel and could define by settling suits (monetary judgments/public notice of results of case etc) a more level playing field of how honest reporters/orgs
need to be into which to many damaged parties refuse to step and in a sense allow the lying scum to be rewarded by continuing their jobs.

479 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:03:52pm

re: #408 buzzsawmonkey

Yes, truth matters. What I am saying is that there is no difference between the lies of this Republican survey and the lies of the surveys the Democrats send out to their base.

None.

I am a registered Democrat--in the one-party principality I live in, the Democratic primary is the election--and so I get material aimed at the Democrat base. It is just as false, and just as nuts, as anything you have posted a link to here; I was tempted, during the campaign last fall, to retype some of the material here simply to show how false and slanted it is.

So yes, the Republican stuff stinks. So does the Democrats' stuff. It is not party-unique; and the "Glenn-Beck" stuff you threw in is starting to sound tiresomely like Cato's attempts to mimic, with Sarah Palin, his ancient namesake's behavior re Carthage.

Why can't Killgore own up to this reality? This crap is commonplace in politics. Always has been, always will. I don't believe Killgore's a republican, so why is so offended?

480 HelloDare  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:03:52pm

Occam's Razor is often misunderstood. It should only be used when, as this source states, the predictive power of the hypotheses are know. In common usage, Occam's Razor is cited specifically when the predictive power of the hypotheses are not known. Occam's Razor should not be applied in these cases.

Occam’s Razor

[ My emphasis ]
One principle of note in regards to the scientific method is Occam’s Razor (alternately spelled Ockham's Razor), which is named after the 14th century English logician and Franciscan friar William of Ockham. Occam did not create the concept - the work of Thomas Aquinas and even Aristotle referred to some form of it. The name was first attributed to him (to our knowledge) in the 1800s, indicating that he must have espoused the philosophy enough that his name became associated with it.

The Razor is often stated in Latin as:

entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

or, translated to English:

entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity

Occam's Razor indicates that the most simple explanation that fits the available data is the one which is preferable. Assuming that two hypotheses are presented have equal predictive power, the one which makes the fewest assumptions and hypothetical entities takes precedence. This appeal to simplicity has been adopted by most of science, and is invoked in this popular quote by Albert Einstein:

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.

It is significant to note that Occam's Razor does not prove that the simpler hypothesis is, indeed, the true explanation of how nature behaves. Scientific principles should be as simple as possible, but that's no proof that nature itself is simple.

However, it is generally the case that when a more complex system is at work there is some element of the evidence which doesn't fit the simpler hypothesis, so Occam's Razor is rarely wrong as it deals only with hypotheses of purely equal predictive power. The predictive power is more important than the simplicity.

481 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:04:03pm

Time for me and my throbber to leave. See ya later.

482 Racer X  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:04:17pm

Beck speaks for all Republicans (even though he is NOT a Republican), like Olberman speaks for all Democrats.

Just another asshole with a bullhorn.

483 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:04:23pm

re: #476 Ward Cleaver

Could be a VC-135 (like the old AF1), assuming they still have those.

That's what I was wondering. A bit early to position an aircraft to take the coffin to DC, but we could be seeing Secret Service get in early to prepare for Obama's appearance giving the eulogy.

484 BlueCanuck  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:04:36pm

re: #449 Creeping Eruption

My lack of punning-ability seems to be a cymbal of the rough day I am having

Not bad. You should always try to toot your horn.

485 DaddyG  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:04:40pm

re: #472 Sharmuta
If that is true I hope the poor dear didn't go through hell and that her family is still around to enjoy more years with her. I can't imagine the horrible thught of missing one of my "babies" for 18 years or more!

486 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:04:53pm
487 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:05:33pm

re: #486 taxfreekiller

Kadaffy Duck , of Lybia.?

Too bad it isn't duck season.
/JOKE!

488 Buck  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:06:16pm

re: #471 yochanan

tim's had good baked stuff the damn coffee was in ittibitti cups. there extra large was smaller than a dunkin small cup. now if you had dunkin sized cups with tim's baked goods you would have a winner.
i like dunkin coffee but can't stand there donuts.

Coming soon to Tims... ICE CREAM... mixed on a cold block with flavors you select...

You might be right about the cups...never thought about it.

489 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:06:16pm

re: #481 JamesTKirk

Time for me and my throbber to leave. See ya later.

It's safe to walk around again Mandy.

490 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:06:24pm

re: #472 Sharmuta

I so hope it's true!

491 ladycatnip  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:06:25pm

#331 JamesTKirk

Vote for this bill, and you too can be just as healthy as the late Senator!

Unless you get the priviledged coverage everyone gets on the Hill. If they trotted out a bill with their benefits, I'd say go for it.

If Kennedy had been on Obama's bill, he would not have gotten that extra year. Being too old, he'd have to take the blue pill (or is it the red one?). He would've heard Daschle's, "healthcare will not be pain free, seniors should be more accepting of conditions that come with age instead of treating them..." Or something like that.

According to Obama, "we're partners with God in life and death issues."

492 kansas  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:06:31pm

re: #468 Equable

He served the air guard diligently and volunteered for Vietnam. I am entirely disgusted with how the mainscream media portrayed his position in the guard as anything less than valiant. He served the air guard more than he was required.

I appreciate President Bush's humble demeanor when approached about his service. And to "report" that he used some political clout to stay out of Vietnam...

...damn them all.

And damn Kerry for being involved, wearing his service on his sleeve with as much panache as he could muster.

Sorry for the vitriol, I am just entirely pissed off.


You might like this.
[Link: www.politicsdaily.com...]

493 Equable  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:07:26pm

re: #492 kansas

Checking it now, thank you very much.

494 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:08:22pm

re: #491 ladycatnip

#331 JamesTKirk


Unless you get the priviledged coverage everyone gets on the Hill. If they trotted out a bill with their benefits, I'd say go for it.

If Kennedy had been on Obama's bill, he would not have gotten that extra year. Being too old, he'd have to take the blue pill (or is it the red one?). He would've heard Daschle's, "healthcare will not be pain free, seniors should be more accepting of conditions that come with age instead of treating them..." Or something like that.

According to Obama, "we're partners with Lucifer in life and death issues."

495 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:08:27pm

re: #402 OldLineTexan

Yes, the Air Force sells pilot training.

And if you want to be safe, you become a fighter pilot.

I am laughing my ass off at the ignorance that this line of reasoning involves, the sheer black-helicopter militia vaxxer troofer ESSENCE that is needed to create this line of back-room deals cloaked in sekrit powers is staggering.

And I'm laughing my at off at the willful ignorance of your almost incoherent post.
I don't really care about the entire thing, but you really think that a call from a well placed person can't get a son a good gig, if need be?
I am not saying it even happened.
I DON'T CARE.
But to posit that there is no influence in giving away slots to powerful people is ridiculous on it's face.
Additionally, if you even bothered to read the rest of the post, I was really commenting on the absurdity of claiming that the Bush family was not "powerful" like the the Kennedy family, who could do exactly that (getting the gig changed via influence) according to the poster.
I see that you don't address that.
I don't know WTF that has to do with black helicopters and the rest, but next you'll be telling me that admissions to ivy league schools are totally done on merit too.

496 kansas  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:08:37pm

re: #439 Killgore Trout

Congratulations. You must be proud of the GOP. Just as bad as Democrats is quite an achievement.
/

Never could be that bad. [Link: www.politicsdaily.com...]

497 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:08:40pm

re: #494 reloadingisnotahobby

FTFY

498 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:08:41pm

re: #484 BlueCanuck

Not bad. You should always try to toot your horn.

Mark Sanford might Guitared and feathered for doing that.

499 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:08:49pm

OT: Forgot what a great album Rocket to Russia (The Ramones) is.

500 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:09:00pm

re: #362 Dianna

Got it, fine.

We all know you can't bear to have made even the smallest error.

Well, as long as you're pitchin' a wiggins...

You twice called me out for writing "non plus ultra", which you claim must be "ne..."

It can be nec, ne, or non - all acceptable Latin forms. Instances on Google, respectively: 257,000, 199,000, 374,000.

Stick to bashing me for bashing Sarah.

501 kcladderman  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:09:16pm

re: #413 MandyManners

I once knew a veterinarian named "Slaughter".

When I was younger I had Doctor Butcher and my dentist was Dr Savage

502 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:09:55pm

re: #476 Ward Cleaver

Could be a VC-135 (like the old AF1), assuming they still have those.

Sorry, my screwup - they're called VC-137s, not VC-135s.

503 kansas  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:09:58pm

re: #501 kcladderman

When I was younger I had Doctor Butcher and my dentist was Dr Savage

Was that Robert Butcher? I was in the KC Ski Club with him in 1978.

504 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:10:23pm

re: #491 ladycatnip

According to Obama, "we're partners with God in life and death issues."

And what is God telling him to do these days, I wonder?

505 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:10:36pm

re: #503 kansas

Was that Robert Butcher? I was in the KC Ski Club with him in 1978.

Ole' Bobby? He was quite a savage on the hills.//

506 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:10:53pm

re: #504 calcajun

And what is God telling him to do these days, I wonder?

To not be railroaded

507 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:10:58pm

re: #496 kansas

Wait until he's buried at least, before bringing that into the discussion please.

508 Last Mohican  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:11:12pm

re: #499 Creeping Eruption

OT: Forgot what a great album Rocket to Russia (The Ramones) is.

I only have it on vinyl. Maybe it's time for me to go get a digital version, so I can listen to it again.

509 SixDegrees  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:11:15pm

re: #478 anotherindyfilmguy

Is enforcement of RICO an infringement? There is organizing to take action in a legal manner and there is organizing to bully and intimidate. Getting a mob to try and influence sponsors to boycott, IMO, is borderline to outright intimidation and bullying.

No difference between this and encouraging people to stay the hell away from Dixie Chicks concerts. None. Nada. Zero.

510 kansas  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:11:16pm

re: #505 Creeping Eruption

Ole' Bobby? He was quite a savage on the hills.//

Certainly at the cash bar at the Club meetings.

511 ladycatnip  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:11:57pm

#494 reloadingisnotahobby

**laughing**

Took me a minute to see what you fixed. Right on.

512 kansas  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:12:23pm

re: #507 CyanSnowHawk

Wait until he's buried at least, before bringing that into the discussion please.

Linking to the truth.

513 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:12:35pm

re: #501 kcladderman

When I was younger I had Doctor Butcher and my dentist was Dr Savage

The Dentist Of Bronze!

514 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:12:35pm

re: #478 anotherindyfilmguy

Not Free Market=party/org/mob stirred up and organized by a few tell sponsors what they can back=takeover of media=dictatorship by the best mob/org/party organizers.

The group is free to contact others to join them in a boycott, and others are free to join or not join. That isn't a "takeover" of the media. It's free speech and free association meeting free markets.

I just don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this.

515 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:12:51pm

re: #479 unrealizedviewpoint

Why can't Killgore own up to this reality? This crap is commonplace in politics. Always has been, always will. I don't believe Killgore's a republican, so why is so offended?

He works hard to undermine us using feigned concern for the purity of the Party. Kind of a Trojan Horse type IMO.

516 BlueCanuck  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:12:58pm

re: #471 yochanan

Well they have four sizes small, medium, large, and extra large. The extra large is about 20oz. The small is a great pick me up at the end of a night shift without jazzing you up for hours. I prefer Timmies, Second Cup, and Starbucks in that order. I will only drink at a Starbucks if I can't find any of the others. Great ambiance but I find their coffee too bitter.

517 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:13:31pm

re: #502 Ward Cleaver

Sorry, my screwup - they're called VC-137s, not VC-135s.

It could have had a paint scheme like in that picture. Hard to tell, as it was banked away from me. (I'm near Rt. 128/Rt 3; Hanscom is 4 exits south on 128, by car obviously)

518 SteveC  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:13:50pm

re: #491 ladycatnip

#331 JamesTKirkI f Kennedy had been on Obama's bill, he would not have gotten that extra year. Being too old, he'd have to take the blue pill (or is it the red one?). He would've heard Daschle's, "healthcare will not be pain free, seniors should be more accepting of conditions that come with age instead of treating them..." Or something like that.

I was reading a medical blog this morning that brought up one of the early national healthcare proposals, proposed by Senator Kennedy. The writer predicted that under the provisions of that bill, incentives for new medical options would have dried up. Ironically, Kennedy would have robbed himself of the time he had.

519 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:13:52pm

re: #508 Last Mohican

I only have it on vinyl. Maybe it's time for me to go get a digital version, so I can listen to it again.

I got the remastered version off of itunes. I have the vinyl too, but no turntable :(

520 RexMundi  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:14:17pm
One of the really striking things about the Rathergate incident is how little curiosity the rest of the media had in finding out the truth of what happened. Completely uninterested in finding out the source of the documents, and completely uninterested in examining how the obviously phony memos could have even gotten onto 60 Minutes in the first place.

This really doesn't suprise me considering all media have a vested interest in not investigating each other that much for fear of being busted for any mistakes or deliberate fraud that they would perpetrate in the future. It becomes a complicit status quo under the guise of professional courtesy.

521 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:14:26pm

re: #479 unrealizedviewpoint


Why can't Killgore own up to this reality? This crap is commonplace in politics. Always has been, always will. I don't believe Killgore's a republican, so why is so offended?

Wow, a blog whose community is no longer concerned with the truth. Lovely.
/

522 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:14:34pm

Just to demonstrate what I have to put up with - and remember that this is distilled from a great deal more, and the emotionally loaded material has been removed:

"X" is a new organization with the mission of connecting society and building community by being a vehicle for people’s positive social change ideas. The organization has accomplished a great deal in the last year: it has formed a dynamic leadership team, gathered a volunteer base, put on many unique and creative volunteer events that, collectively, have helped over two thousand people. "X" has been featured in the press fifteen times, once for distributing socks and sweets to the homeless.

523 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:14:48pm

re: #519 Creeping Eruption

I got the remastered version off of itunes. I have the vinyl too, but no turntable :(

You should talk to Beck about that. He's got two of them... AND a microphone!

524 kcladderman  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:15:09pm

re: #503 kansas

You know I really don't remember. He was our Dr when I was a kid ,it seems his name might have been Robert I mean it was so long ago I remember him making a house call. He had a single Dr practice in south KC. Can't imagine there were too many Dr Butchers in KC in the 70's.

525 Gretchen  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:15:11pm

It is not remarkable to me the media had no interest in investigating the phoney memos, they hated Bush and wanted Kerry to win.

This was the event that nudged Bush over the top and I maintain it was because of the pictures flashed on every station of Bush looking like a sexy movie star pilot and this picture of Kerry in Viet Nam.

526 Digital Display  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:15:16pm

Well Lizards..It's time..Going to run to the Airport and pick up our Marine.
Thanks for your prayers and support during the last year..

527 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:15:29pm

re: #485 DaddyG

re: #490 Dianna

Reading the article- the authorities seem pretty certain this woman is who she claims she is. I hope her and her family can heal from this ordeal and enjoy the rest of their lives together. I love happy endings.

528 Racer X  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:16:01pm

re: #515 LGoPs

He works hard to undermine us using feigned concern for the purity of the Party. Kind of a Trojan Horse type IMO.

I don't think that is his intention at all. I like KT - he keeps us all from going batshit Beck-like insane.

529 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:16:03pm

re: #521 Killgore Trout

And you're off into "Oh, I'm a martyr!" territory.

530 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:16:03pm

re: #509 SixDegrees

No difference between this and encouraging people to stay the hell away from Dixie Chicks concerts. None. Nada. Zero.


Apples and Oranges comparison:
The Dixie Chicks pissed off their base. Their base abandoned them and their sponsor found it suddenly easy to drop them. Much of the discussion stems from yesterdays thread where someone not in Becks base of viewership/fandom is trying to organize a boycott to silence him. Beck's viewership is not dropping and the boycott is a politically based attack to silence "the other side" not so much a snap mass decision to ignore by the market so to speak.

531 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:16:16pm

re: #526 HoosierHoops

Well Lizards..It's time..Going to run to the Airport and pick up our Marine.
Thanks for your prayers and support during the last year..

I offer a hearty "Welcome home!" and "Thanks for all your hard work!" to him. :)

532 Equable  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:16:24pm

re: #527 Sharmuta

Amen sister...

533 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:16:25pm

re: #526 HoosierHoops

Well Lizards..It's time..Going to run to the Airport and pick up our Marine.
Thanks for your prayers and support during the last year..

CONGRATULATIONS. What a great day for your family!

534 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:16:30pm

re: #519 Creeping Eruption
I'm getting old...
35years ago I spent 300 bucks on a "State of the art "
Turntable!
Had no furniture in my new house but you could hear that I was home!!
Ah the good old days!

535 yochanan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:16:39pm

re: #504 calcajun

ask rev wright

536 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:16:43pm
537 Racer X  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:16:53pm

re: #521 Killgore Trout

Wow, a blog whose community is no longer concerned with the truth. Lovely.
/

Ease up on the broad brush there.

538 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:17:05pm

re: #527 Sharmuta

Me, too.

539 Last Mohican  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:17:17pm

re: #519 Creeping Eruption

I got the remastered version off of itunes. I have the vinyl too, but no turntable :(

Wow, there it is, "expanded and remastered."

I'm suspicious that the album won't sound as good as it used to, now that it's all digitally remastered and cleaned up for iTunes, rather than played off of vinyl on a cheap record player, and blasted at maximum volume through some big can-type headphones over and over again after school.

540 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:17:27pm

re: #408 buzzsawmonkey

I am a registered Democrat--

GAHHH! IT BURNS!!!

541 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:17:37pm

re: #522 Dianna

Just to demonstrate what I have to put up with - and remember that this is distilled from a great deal more, and the emotionally loaded material has been removed:

More, please. Rollin' on the floor here. And put the emotionally loaded stuff back in. That's the fun part!

542 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:18:00pm

re: #534 reloadingisnotahobby

I'm getting old...
35years ago I spent 300 bucks on a "State of the art "
Turntable!
Had no furniture in my new house but you could hear that I was home!!
Ah the good old days!

I still have the other components I bought with the turntable, but it just has not survived the intervening 23 years.

543 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:18:12pm

Hossier and Iris Rose are both having a GREAT day!
Thank them both!
From the bottom of our hearts!!
Loader

544 Last Mohican  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:18:13pm

re: #540 experiencedtraveller

GAHHH! IT BURNS!!!

I'm a registered Democrat too.

That gave me the chance to vote against Obama twice, instead of once.

545 Ben Hur  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:18:18pm

Without scanning the thread, I'm sure no one is surprised.


I recently re-examined the panel’s report after a source, Deep Throat style, told me to “Go to page 130.

Oooo...

I'm sorry, but that bit makes me chuckle.

546 3 wood  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:18:37pm

re: #316 JamesTKirk

If they did, they might have gotten more realistic looking forgeries.

They actually did hire document experts, and at least one of them told them not to go with the story, that the documents were almost 100% certain forgeries.

Other experts refused to even give an opinion after glancing at the documents cause they were so bogus.

But Rather kept looking till he found one "expert" who said they might be genuine.

547 SteveC  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:18:46pm

re: #539 Last Mohican

...played off of vinyl on a cheap record player, and blasted at maximum volume through some big can-type headphones over and over again after school.

That form of presentation sounds like crap. But it sure is fun, isn't it? :)

548 ladycatnip  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:19:01pm

#504 calcajun

And what is God telling him to do these days, I wonder?

He's working on the stone tablets as we speak.

549 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:19:07pm

re: #514 Sharmuta

I agree with you, we aren't connecting the dots the same way and probably won't on this general concept because, yes, I am a tad entrenched and stubborn about it.
(You're still my favorite smurfette, hugs etc.)

550 Equable  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:19:32pm

re: #526 HoosierHoops

Please express the lizard horde gratitude!

551 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:19:35pm

re: #528 Racer X

I don't think that is his intention at all. I like KT - he keeps us all from going batshit Beck-like insane.

"Us all"?

Speak for yourself, Kemosabe.

552 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:19:44pm

re: #539 Last Mohican

Wow, there it is, "expanded and remastered."

I'm suspicious that the album won't sound as good as it used to, now that it's all digitally remastered and cleaned up for iTunes, rather than played off of vinyl on a cheap record player, and blasted at maximum volume through some big can-type headphones over and over again after school.

Well nothing will sound that good in my opinion. I love the sound of vinyl. However, I am not sure that the rest of the office would like to her "Teenage Lobotomy" played at a level much louder than my computer speakers can handle.

553 Last Mohican  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:19:49pm

re: #547 SteveC

That form of presentation sounds like crap. But it sure is fun, isn't it? :)

Sure was. I think the mastering engineer who originally mastered Rocket to Russia probably had that setup in mind.

554 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:20:00pm

re: #541 Cato the Elder

More, please. Rollin' on the floor here. And put the emotionally loaded stuff back in. That's the fun part!

I would, but I've got to go summarize more like this.

That was 27 of 37.

Oh, and it was far from being the worst.

555 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:20:28pm

One of the google ads that came up on this page was for redaction software.

Heh.

556 ladycatnip  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:20:41pm

#501 kcladderman

When I was younger I had Doctor Butcher and my dentist was Dr Savage

I went to school with a chap named Kleen who was applying for dental school.

557 Kenneth  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:20:49pm

Thunderclap Newman Something In The Air

558 yochanan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:20:51pm

re: #526 HoosierHoops

every lizard should ding this one up just a little way to say thanks for your son/s service

559 Last Mohican  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:21:16pm

re: #552 Creeping Eruption

Well nothing will sound that good in my opinion. I love the sound of vinyl. However, I am not sure that the rest of the office would like to her "Teenage Lobotomy" played at a level much louder than my computer speakers can handle.

There's only one way to find out!

I still know all the words to that song by heart. It's not hard, there aren't many.

560 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:21:20pm

re: #554 Dianna

I would, but I've got to go summarize more like this.

That was 27 of 37.

Oh, and it was far from being the worst.

Post again as time permits. It's great stuff.

561 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:21:27pm

re: #542 Creeping Eruption

I should add that the turntable was goin thru about 1500$
worth of equip...
Sounded awesome...till the nose bleed starts...LOL

562 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:21:49pm

re: #526 HoosierHoops

Well Lizards..It's time..Going to run to the Airport and pick up our Marine.
Thanks for your prayers and support during the last year..

Thank him from me for his service. And thanks to God for his safe return.

563 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:21:58pm

re: #546 3 wood

They actually did hire document experts, and at least one of them told them not to go with the story, that the documents were almost 100% certain forgeries.

Other experts refused to even give an opinion after glancing at the documents cause they were so bogus.

But Rather kept looking till he found one "expert" who said they might be genuine.

I'm now of the belief that Rather and Mapes KNEW this was a pack of lies.

564 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:22:13pm

re: #549 anotherindyfilmguy

I agree with you, we aren't connecting the dots the same way and probably won't on this general concept because, yes, I am a tad entrenched and stubborn about it.
(You're still my favorite smurfette, hugs etc.)

Aww- thanks.

I really like we've had a tough debate about this and remained civil. I enjoy your comments usually, and though we're not seeing eye to eye on this topic, I look forward to other issues where I'm sure we'll have common ground.

565 SteveC  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:22:28pm

WTF?

Shepherd Smith just said that life at the Kennedy compound was "a struggle."

/I'm just here for the Ares test, guys, Seriously. Where's my rocket?

566 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:22:31pm

re: #540 experiencedtraveller

GAHHH! IT BURNS!!!

You know, it might really bake your noodle if you came to learn that I'm a registered Democrat as well...

567 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:22:39pm
568 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:22:47pm

re: #559 Last Mohican

There's only one way to find out!

I still know all the words to that song by heart. It's not hard, there aren't many.

Actually my secretary has complained about how hard it is to hear my dictation because I forget to turn down my music when I am working sometimes.

569 Buck  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:22:48pm

re: #495 doubter4444


But to posit that there is no influence in giving away slots to powerful people is ridiculous on it's face.

It looks like you are saying that only influence is needed to get a slot. And that is ridiculous.

You should admit though that listing GWB as the governor and president that might have had that influence on the Commanders accepting him in the program is, well, funny.

570 yochanan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:23:10pm

re: #544 Last Mohican

the first time you really got to vote for the lesser of two evils

i was proud to support John McCain.

571 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:23:24pm

re: #522 Dianna

Just to demonstrate what I have to put up with - and remember that this is distilled from a great deal more, and the emotionally loaded material has been removed:


Are sure that isn't cribbed from Obama's curriculum vitae?

572 kansas  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:23:30pm

Crikey. Many of my favorite posters are Democrats.

573 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:23:39pm

re: #567 taxfreekiller

O.K. , while we are at it, your most hated lies by ,,

Barney Frank
B. Obama
Chris Dodd
Harry Reid
Nancy Pelosi
Bill Clinton
JOhn Kerry

for starters

And people say I'm obsessed...

574 kansas  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:24:06pm

re: #571 Occasional Reader

Are sure that isn't cribbed from Obama's curriculum vitae?

Couldn't be sure cause no one has ever seen it./

575 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:24:06pm

re: #561 reloadingisnotahobby

I should add that the turntable was goin thru about 1500$
worth of equip...
Sounded awesome...till the nose bleed starts...LOL

When I was a kid we used to put our huge speakers in the window overlooking our driveway where we had a basketball hoop. I am pretty sure most of our neighbors hated us. Ramones, Two Live Crew, Beastie Boys, Zeppelin . . all at "11" out the window.

576 Ben Hur  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:24:19pm

re: #527 Sharmuta

re: #490 Dianna

Reading the article- the authorities seem pretty certain this woman is who she claims she is. I hope her and her family can heal from this ordeal and enjoy the rest of their lives together. I love happy endings.

It will be interesting to see if the Age Progression software was anywhere near accurate.

I'd like to see what she looks like now, compared to the program's depiction.

577 saberry0530  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:24:35pm

re: #566 lawhawk

You know, it might really bake your noodle if you came to learn that I'm a registered Democrat as well...

probably for your own physical safety and well being, thinking I know your location???

578 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:24:39pm

re: #566 lawhawk

You know, it might really bake your noodle if you came to learn that I'm a registered Democrat as well...

Didn't bake the noodle, nor poach the steak, actually... :)

579 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:24:52pm

re: #565 SteveC

WTF?

Shepherd Smith just said that life at the Kennedy compound was "a struggle."

/I'm just here for the Ares test, guys, Seriously. Where's my rocket?

My guess is two slain brothers and an institutionalized sister isn't a walk in the park no matter how much money your family has.

580 wahabicorridor  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:24:57pm

re: #526 HoosierHoops

Well Lizards..It's time..Going to run to the Airport and pick up our Marine.
Thanks for your prayers and support during the last year..

GOOO HOOPS!

GOOO JORDAN!

581 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:25:05pm

re: #575 Creeping Eruption

The should have appreciated the "Culture Class" next door!!
LOL

582 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:25:17pm

re: #566 lawhawk

You know, it might really bake your noodle if you came to learn that I'm a registered Democrat as well...

I'd fling myself out the window right now but the 4 foot plunge to the grass wouldn't hurt and I'd just end up fixin' the screen...

583 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:25:34pm

Back to scriptland-a few more pages for first draft of third script for next production cycle...
Later Lizards.

584 Silvergirl  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:25:46pm

OT: I'm laughing over this one in the spinkoff links. We know about Birthers, but now Afterbirthers. The Onion, of course.

585 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:25:47pm

re: #573 Cato the Elder

And people say I'm obsessed...

At least TFK spreads it around amongst the deserving. You, you're apparently stuck on Sarah.

586 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:25:52pm

re: #566 lawhawk

You know, it might really bake your noodle if you came to learn that I'm a registered Democrat as well...

Same

587 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:26:22pm

re: #566 lawhawk

You know, it might really bake your noodle if you came to learn that I'm a registered Democrat as well...

Me, three. (For reasons similar to buzzsaw's... if you don't vote in the Dem primary in DC, your vote is just a chuckle, anyway... plus, some amount of inertia, plus, every time I've thought about going (R), they do something that puts me off.)

588 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:26:26pm
589 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:26:34pm

re: #573 Cato the Elder

And people say I'm obsessed...

Palinus delenda est

590 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:26:41pm

re: #573 Cato the Elder

And people say I'm obsessed...

Um Cato, your list looks like this

Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin

It looks just a little obsessive.
/

591 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:26:46pm

re: #582 experiencedtraveller

I'd fling myself out the window right now but the 4 foot plunge to the grass wouldn't hurt and I'd just end up fixin' the screen...

I guess I'm not the only one who had trouble with that.

592 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:26:59pm

re: #577 saberry0530

probably for your own physical safety and well being, thinking I know your location???

Safety? Naw... Mostly because if you want to vote in any election that means anything (that would be primaries), you'd have to be a registered D.

593 yochanan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:27:15pm

re: #526 HoosierHoops

thanks to your son i would up ding it a 1,000 times if i could everyone should

594 Last Mohican  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:27:45pm

re: #573 Cato the Elder

And people say I'm obsessed...

Only stupid people say that. People as stupid as, say, Sarah Palin, who happens to be A COMPLETE IDIOT WHO COULDN'T TIE HER OWN SHOES IF SOMEONE WASN'T HELPING HER! Ooh, she's just so STUPID!

And by the way, you know where Sarah Palin was during the Vietnam War? IN A WHITE SUPREMACIST ENCAMPMENT IN ALASKA, WORSHIPPING SATAN AND BITING THE HEADS OFF PUPPIES, that's where she was.

595 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:28:27pm

re: #579 Sharmuta

My guess is two slain brothers and an institutionalized sister isn't a walk in the park no matter how much money your family has.

Still, "a struggle" is not the most appropriate terms for that. A struggle is what life is like in Darfur or Somalia, not a mansion in Massachusetts.

596 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:28:36pm

re: #594 Last Mohican

You forgot shooting puppies from the air before drinking their blood.

597 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:28:47pm

re: #590 CyanSnowHawk

Um Cato, your list looks like this

Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin

It looks just a little obsessive.
/

I'm suddenly reminded of the character playing John Cusack's sister in Say Anything, strumming the guitar and tearfully intoning "Joe lies..."

598 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:29:06pm

re: #581 reloadingisnotahobby

The should have appreciated the "Culture Class" next door!!
LOL

Or "Culture clash." Jew-boy growing up in a blueblood neighborhood. When my parents first bought their house, there were tons of "Thurston Howell II and III's in the neighborhood with their names on plaques in front of their houses. As a joke, my dad got one: "Mr. Creeping Eruption, I"

599 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:29:25pm

re: #594 Last Mohican

REALLY?!?!?!

/can you smell what the sarcasm is cooking?

600 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:29:48pm

re: #594 Last Mohican

Only stupid people say that. People as stupid as, say, Sarah Palin, who happens to be A COMPLETE IDIOT WHO COULDN'T TIE HER OWN SHOES IF SOMEONE WASN'T HELPING HER! Ooh, she's just so STUPID!

And by the way, you know where Sarah Palin was during the Vietnam War? IN A WHITE SUPREMACIST ENCAMPMENT IN ALASKA, WORSHIPPING SATAN AND BITING THE HEADS OFF PUPPIES, that's where she was.

Here's proof.

601 SixDegrees  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:30:06pm

re: #530 anotherindyfilmguy

Apples and Oranges comparison:
The Dixie Chicks pissed off their base. Their base abandoned them and their sponsor found it suddenly easy to drop them. Much of the discussion stems from yesterdays thread where someone not in Becks base of viewership/fandom is trying to organize a boycott to silence him. Beck's viewership is not dropping and the boycott is a politically based attack to silence "the other side" not so much a snap mass decision to ignore by the market so to speak.

Allow me to repeat myself:

No difference between this and encouraging people to stay the hell away from Dixie Chicks concerts. None. Nada. Zero.

Sorry, but they're all apples.

And, uh, the fans aren't, and weren't, the ones organizing either boycott. By definition. See "fan." Boycotts are organized by the disenchanted.

Beck is a gigantic, pulsing hemorrhoid. And that's coming straight from me, who is one of the "base" whether you like it or not.

602 yochanan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:30:39pm

i hear the new york times chatting class still making jokes about Sarah i hope cato enjoys there company as for me it just gives me an excuse to down ding.

603 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:30:58pm

re: #424 taxfreekiller

David Ives Mixter

Old rich New England family. KIA
Joined Army, enlisted man, E-5, Special Forces, S.O.G.

your full of it

Bite me.
I dislike your posts in general, as they are usually little more than anti-democrat invective, so I usually don't bother to respond.
But I guess I have to since you are responding to me directly.

The illogic of pointing out one old family's soldiers sacrifice as indicative of how all old, or powerful families act is staggering.
I respect that this young man had the stones to enlist, as did and have done many, many others.
It's that kind of honor that makes a difference.
But how in gods name does that prove that others have not used it to get what they want?
How many stories of churless behavior have there been where rich kids get treated differently? I can think of one pretty famous one (not about the military, but but all the same) in the news right now.
Do you deny that influence is used if necessary?
That's all I'm saying.
Why is this upsetting to you?

Again, I don't care about the issue, I think personally Bush did a fine thing.
I think flying jets would be an incredible thing to do, and I was impressed that he did it, and not looking to denigrate him.
Can that be any clearer?
And you think it's all a bad thing, like he was trying to get out of danger.

What about this:
Lets say a rich, powerful families son signed up for the guards in 68.
A personnel officer saw say, GW Bush's name and thought, shit, I got to get this rich kid some where safe, or my ass is on the line.
So they put him as public affairs officer, pushing paper to get him out of the way.
The kid is pissed and says "I want to fly, or fight, or what ever, I did not sign to to sit in an office.
A call is made and he get s to flight school.
Is that a bad thing?
A kid wanted to do something important, and he got to.
I have no idea if it happened in this case, but I sure it does, and particularly during war time where things are busy, probably more often than others.

604 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:31:09pm

re: #585 unrealizedviewpoint

At least TFK spreads it around amongst the deserving. You, you're apparently stuck on Sarah.

Michelle Bachmann
Mark Sanford
Sarah Palin
Bobby Jindal
Newt Gingrich
Dick Cheney
John McCain

for starters

605 SteveC  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:31:14pm

re: #594 Last Mohican

And by the way, you know where Sarah Palin was during the Vietnam War? IN A WHITE SUPREMACIST ENCAMPMENT IN ALASKA, WORSHIPPING SATAN AND BITING THE HEADS OFF PUPPIES, that's where she was.

re: #596 lawhawk

You forgot shooting puppies from the air before drinking their blood.

Ok, so she gets a little freaky. That's not a deal breaker!

606 debutaunt  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:32:11pm

re: #149 HelloDare

That piece by Mapes was published at the Huffington Post. Here is her profile there.


Truth and Duty. That would be fiction, I presume.

Sold on the 3 for .99 table out by the garage.

607 Racer X  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:32:33pm

re: #551 Occasional Reader

"Us all"?

Speak for yourself, Kemosabe.

Ahh, good point. My bad.

608 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:32:39pm

re: #604 Cato the Elder

Michelle Bachmann
Mark Sanford
Sarah Palin
Bobby Jindal
Newt Gingrich
Dick Cheney
John McCain

for starters

Good to see you're non-partisan about the thing.

/

609 Gretchen  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:33:02pm

re: #594 Last Mohican

Only stupid people say that. People as stupid as, say, Sarah Palin, who happens to be A COMPLETE IDIOT WHO COULDN'T TIE HER OWN SHOES IF SOMEONE WASN'T HELPING HER! Ooh, she's just so STUPID!

And by the way, you know where Sarah Palin was during the Vietnam War? IN A WHITE SUPREMACIST ENCAMPMENT IN ALASKA, WORSHIPPING SATAN AND BITING THE HEADS OFF PUPPIES, that's where she was.

I'm pretty sure the media wouldn't claim she was doing something cool like worshiping Satan, she was banning books and going to a CHRISTIAN church, and clubbing baby seals, with guns.

610 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:33:07pm

re: #600 CyanSnowHawk

Damn blogspot.

611 SteveC  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:33:14pm

re: #606 debutaunt

Sold on the 3 for .99 table out by the garage.

Saw it at the $1.00 store, right next to Why the world will end in 1995.

612 Last Mohican  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:33:31pm

re: #609 Gretchen

she was banning books and going to a CHRISTIAN church, and clubbing baby seals, with guns.

While wearing a stars-and-stripes bikini.

613 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:33:38pm

re: #588 taxfreekiller

Just attempting to be helpful with KT's search for truth, you on the other hand not so much.

Michelle Bachmann
Mark Sanford
Sarah Palin
Bobby Jindal
Newt Gingrich
Dick Cheney
John McCain

for starters

repeat ad infinitum

614 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:33:42pm

re: #594 Last Mohican

Only stupid people say that. People as stupid as, say, Sarah Palin, who happens to be A COMPLETE IDIOT WHO COULDN'T TIE HER OWN SHOES IF SOMEONE WASN'T HELPING HER! Ooh, she's just so STUPID!

And by the way, you know where Sarah Palin was during the Vietnam War? IN A WHITE SUPREMACIST ENCAMPMENT IN ALASKA, WORSHIPPING SATAN AND BITING THE HEADS OFF PUPPIES, that's where she was.

Take 2.

Here's proof.

615 wahabicorridor  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:33:45pm

re: #594 Last Mohican

AND BITING THE HEADS OFF PUPPIES, that's where she was.

Liar.

She was shooting them from black helicopters with AK-47s.

616 Eowyn2  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:33:51pm

re: #8 drcordell

Not sure why Goldberg is claiming that any of this is "new information." All of this was covered by the Washington Post back in 1999. Goldberg just knows that bashing CBS and 60 minutes as a former employee guarantees him an income from Fox News for the rest of his life. Snooze.

WaPo Story


60 minutes aired their story in 2004

617 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:34:04pm

re: #596 lawhawk

You forgot shooting puppies from the air before drinking their blood.

I should not have laughed at that.

re: #605 SteveC

Ok, so she gets a little freaky. That's not a deal breaker!

I should not have laughed at that either.

(smacks hand with ruler)

618 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:34:20pm

re: #608 Occasional Reader

Good to see you're non-partisan about the thing.

/

Just emulatin' TFK, the truth-seeker.

619 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:34:27pm

re: #595 ArchangelMichael

Still, "a struggle" is not the most appropriate terms for that. A struggle is what life is like in Darfur or Somalia, not a mansion in Massachusetts.

Sure- we could argue degrees, but everyone has their own cross to bear, and we all think of our burden as a burden and a struggle regardless if it's less of a burden than that of others.

I mean- would you trade shoes with a Kennedy?

620 cliffster  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:34:51pm

re: #584 Silvergirl

OT: I'm laughing over this one in the spinkoff links. We know about Birthers, but now Afterbirthers. The Onion, of course.

Well done.

621 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:34:51pm

re: #590 CyanSnowHawk

It looks just a little obsessive.
/

Ha! Night before last, I woke up at 1 a.m., heart pounding and tense. I literally could not go back to sleep until I'd managed to remember all of Longfellow's "Excelsior."

Is this a symptom of something bad?

622 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:35:00pm

ONe of the things that I really do love LGF for is that is is a place to critically look at the news.

I was attracted to this place by the expose of Dan Rather. It was a magnificent debunking. The Fauxtogrphy story was a true service to the world.

The problem is one of lies. Endless lies.

We all know that all of the politicians lie to a greater or lesser extent. Sometimes the lies are so brazen and insult the intelligence so badly, that they instantly out the contempt of the politicos for us.

The biggest example of this in recent memory was Hilary's bit about landing under sniper fire - as if the Air Force would intentionally land the First Lady anywhere that was hot.

There are many other examples we can come up with. Then there are the lies that are less easy to get at. We will honestly never know the full story of many things.

The problem is made worse by the MSM just lying. Anyone who thinks that either Fox or CNN is anything other than slanted agitprop is a fool. Sometimes, you can say that the truth may be in the middle. Sometimes you can say that on this issue, that network might be more or less fair, but the reality is that it is very hard to get good data.

Most of what we do at LGF is point out the inconsistencies in the crap sent to us, so we know that a lie happened somewhere.

Sometimes, we even get to the root of things and find the actual data that gives us the truth.

I'm writing all of this because all too often it is about politics when we do this. The truth does not belong to a political party. It is hard enough to find it without coloring it ourselves.

It doesn't matter what Bill did with his pecker in the long run if we are only arguing to bash Bill. It doesn't matter what W's courage was if we are only arguing to prop up W.

What matters is that Bill did put his pecker where he shouldn't have and that W. really did have the balls to want to go.

But past that - just trying to say bill was the antichrist or that swift boat duty was lame compared to flying a jet serves no purpose.

I am making a plea here that we do what we do best at LGF which is sift through the shit that is shoveled at us and get to the truth. We have enough shit without making our own.

623 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:35:03pm

re: #609 Gretchen

I'm pretty sure the media wouldn't claim she was doing something cool like worshiping Satan, she was banning books and going to a CHRISTIAN church, and clubbing baby seals, with guns.

I think I saw her on TV wearing a "I ♣ Baby Seals" shirt once.

/

624 SteveC  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:35:17pm

re: #612 Last Mohican

While wearing a stars-and-stripes bikini.

Ok, my soldier just saluted.

625 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:35:24pm

re: #594 Last Mohican

Only stupid people say that. People as stupid as, say, Sarah Palin, who happens to be A COMPLETE IDIOT WHO COULDN'T TIE HER OWN SHOES IF SOMEONE WASN'T HELPING HER! Ooh, she's just so STUPID!

And by the way, you know where Sarah Palin was during the Vietnam War? IN A WHITE SUPREMACIST ENCAMPMENT IN ALASKA, WORSHIPPING SATAN AND BITING THE HEADS OFF PUPPIES, that's where she was.


I also heard that there are Birch trees in Alaska. Sounds a little too convenient to me, what with the John Birch Society and all that. I'm sure there's a connection there somewhere.
/

626 yochanan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:35:39pm

re: #609 Gretchen

i think it is the CANUKS who club the seals.

627 3 wood  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:35:47pm

re: #563 MandyManners

I'm now of the belief that Rather and Mapes KNEW this was a pack of lies.

Of course they knew. They wanted the story to be true, so they kept looking for "facts" to support their pre-drawn conclusion

628 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:36:00pm

re: #587 Occasional Reader

Me, three. (For reasons similar to buzzsaw's... if you don't vote in the Dem primary in DC, your vote is just a chuckle, anyway... plus, some amount of inertia, plus, every time I've thought about going (R), they do something that puts me off.)

I'm "Unaffiliated" because in Mass, I can pick which primary to vote in. Normally, the Democratic primary has contested elections, so I'll vote in that primary, but not always.
And I never try to sabotage the other party, but vote for the candidate I'd prefer among the choices available.
I don't think sabotage is right, and besides, the worst candidate might actually get elected!

629 Last Mohican  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:36:50pm

re: #624 SteveC

Ok, my soldier just saluted.

If you'd like to excuse yourself for a few minutes, Cato has some photos you can borrow.

630 BlueCanuck  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:37:25pm

re: #626 yochanan

i think it is the CANUKS CANUCKS who club the seals.


FTFY and yes it is. Seal meat is a delicacy in New Foundland Labrador.

631 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:37:29pm

re: #440 Buck

I don't care how much money you have or how much influence your family projects. They don't let you fly jets unless you earn it.

Now it is reasonable that they prefer to give multi million dollar aircraft to people with patriotic backgrounds and families. After all it might just cut down of the defections... BUT GWB has demonstrated that he wanted to be like his old man. He wanted the Yale experience, he wanted to fly combat, and he wanted to be President... just like daddy.

It is not a stretch of anyones imagination to see that.

I'll but that, and add that it's possible that help went to making sure it happened.
It's only a big deal in my mind if your are trying to get out of something. I don't think he was, in fact as you said, it's just the opposite.

632 Racer X  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:37:35pm

re: #629 Last Mohican

If you'd like to excuse yourself for a few minutes, Cato has some photos you can borrow.

ROTFLMAO!

633 Kenneth  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:37:42pm

re: #626 yochanan

i think it is the CANUKS who club the seals.

Newfies to be precise.

634 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:38:06pm

re: #619 Sharmuta

Sure- we could argue degrees, but everyone has their own cross to bear, and we all think of our burden as a burden and a struggle regardless if it's less of a burden than that of others.

I mean- would you trade shoes with a Kennedy?

My liver couldn't take it.

635 SteveC  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:38:17pm

re: #629 Last Mohican

If you'd like to excuse yourself for a few minutes, Cato has some photos you can borrow.

I think I'm ok.

In a completely unrelated story, Fox just said that NASA's rocket didn't go off!

636 Racer X  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:38:36pm

re: #622 LudwigVanQuixote

Well said.

637 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:38:45pm

re: #634 Dianna

My liver couldn't take it.

LOL

638 Gretchen  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:38:46pm

re: #623 ArchangelMichael

I think I saw her on TV wearing a "I ♣ Baby Seals" shirt once.

/


Was the show produced by Mary Mapes?

639 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:39:00pm

re: #619 Sharmuta

I mean- would you trade shoes with a Kennedy?

No I wouldn't but it's not because of nutty relatives or the specter of death looming over a whole generation. I just don't want to be someone else no matter how well off or not they are.

640 Ojoe  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:39:04pm

Hey typical wee wee person, enjoying your vacation?

You are eating all you want, I hope?

641 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:39:20pm

re: #635 SteveC

I think I'm ok.

In a completely unrelated story, Fox just said that NASA's rocket didn't go off!

They should be using Ci-Atlas.

642 debutaunt  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:39:48pm

re: #242 Dianna

Fixed that. I know you appreciate precision.

hahahahahahahahhahahahhaaa

643 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:40:20pm

Speaking of Republican liars:

Sanford should not be asking whether to bail. He should be asking how much his bail is.

644 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:40:25pm
645 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:40:32pm

re: #627 3 wood

Of course they knew. They wanted the story to be true, so they kept looking for "facts" to support their pre-drawn conclusion

I don't think they wanted the story to be true. I think they wanted us to believe their lies were true. They went shopping for one expert who would further their pack of deceit. I wonder how much they paid that expert. I wonder how deep is his BDS.

646 Ben Hur  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:40:46pm

Pssst...!

Over here!

Camera pans to a dark corner of the dank D.C. underground parking lot.

Past the Lexii and Merks stands a lone figure, seen through the gray smoke of his cigarette only by the silhouette of his fedora.

Cautiously, Golberg approaches.

He know that dangers of Washington.

It's sprung!

The stranger speaks:

Check out page 130...

Goldberg can feel the world change on the back of his damp, gritty neck.

He hears it over and over again.

Check out page 130...

He can't shake the image. He can't shake the horror that he might have just missed...

Page 130.

647 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:41:00pm

re: #642 debutaunt

hahahahahahahahhahahahhaaa

Read on.

648 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:41:11pm

re: #643 Cato the Elder

Speaking of Republican liars:

Sanford should not be asking whether to bail. He should be asking how much his bail is.

He better start bailing, his life is sinking.

649 Ojoe  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:41:39pm

re: #594 Last Mohican

Palin must be stupid, she's pretty.

/10

650 Erik The Red  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:42:14pm

re: #644 buzzsawmonkey

The problem with clubbing with baby seals is that they are too young to get into the really good places.

:))) LOL

651 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:42:22pm

re: #645 MandyManners

I don't think they wanted the story to be true. I think they wanted us to believe their lies were true. They went shopping for one expert who would further their pack of deceit. I wonder how much they paid that expert. I wonder how deep is his BDS.

I wonder if anyone will ever hire him again to certify documents.

652 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:43:02pm

re: #644 buzzsawmonkey

The problem with clubbing with baby seals is that they are too young to get into the really good places.

Also, it cuts into their kindergarten BUDS courses the following day.

653 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:43:07pm

re: #408 buzzsawmonkey

I am a registered Democrat--.

I don't know you at all.

You're dead to me.

///

My best man was and still is an NRA, gun-totin' Democrat.

654 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:43:41pm

re: #596 lawhawk

You forgot shooting puppies from the air before drinking their blood.

Tricky-- all depend on what load you use.

655 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:43:51pm

re: #622 LudwigVanQuixote

What matters is that Bill did put his pecker where he shouldn't have

A large part of me thinks that that is a matter between him and his wife.

What concerns me is the perjury and suborned perjury.

656 Racer X  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:43:54pm

re: #644 buzzsawmonkey

The problem with clubbing with baby seals is that they are too young to get into the really good places.

Fake fur ID.

657 Kenneth  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:44:06pm

re: #649 Ojoe

Palin must be stupid, she's pretty and conservative

/10

FTFY!

658 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:44:31pm

re: #405 JamesTKirk

Most of those positions happened after W's tour in the TANG. After all, one of those Governors and Presidents was him, so you can't use those (or his brother Jeb's governorship of Florida, of his father becoming VP and then P a decade later) as evidence of the Bush family's influence during the 1970s.

From just a little down the page:

Samuel P. Bush (1863–1948), a close adviser to President Hoover, was president of the Ohio Association of Manufacturers and a major Columbus industrialist. He also served on the board of the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland (as well as of the Huntington National Bank of Columbus).
Flora Sheldon (1872-1920), the wife of Samuel P. Bush, married June 20, 1894 and mother to Prescott Bush.
Prescott Bush (1895–1972), Samuel P. Bush's son, served as a US Senator from Connecticut.
Dorothy Wear Walker Bush (1901–1992), the wife of Prescott, was the daughter of George Herbert Walker of the well-connected Walker family of bankers and businessmen
Prescott Bush, Jr. (born 1922), Prescott Bush's eldest son, served as chairman of the U.S.-China Chamber of Commerce.
George H.W. Bush (born 1924), Prescott Bush Sr.'s second son, was the 41st US President, a Congressman from Houston, and CIA director, and also held other political and diplomatic posts. Before his political career he was in the oil business in Texas.

Look, all I'm saying is that they were and are a powerful family, and have been so for a long time, certainly longer than the Kennedy clan.
I know the Kennedy's have the mystique, but the Bush's had the power.

659 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:44:49pm

re: #656 Racer X

Fake fur ID.

But that would be sea-lyin'!

660 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:45:06pm

re: #631 doubter4444

I'll but that, and add that it's possible that help went to making sure it happened.
It's only a big deal in my mind if your are trying to get out of something. I don't think he was, in fact as you said, it's just the opposite.

I'll buy that.
PIMF

661 yochanan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:45:22pm

re: #630 BlueCanuck

i was in st johns once a long time ago but it wasn't in seal clubing season so all i got was illegal lobster and some imported pot.

p.s. and last years hockey season was a winner for us in CHICAGOSTAN when we sent VANCOUOVERSTAN home packing

662 Kenneth  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:45:45pm

re: #655 MandyManners

What matters is that Bill did put his pecker where he shouldn't have

A large part of me thinks that that is a matter between him and his wife.

What concerns me is the perjury and suborned perjury.

If he did that on his own time, maybe. But he messed around with Lewinsky at the office during working hours. It was disgraceful and an insult to the people who hired him for the job.

663 yochanan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:45:57pm

re: #633 Kenneth

the newfies i have meet I like

664 Ojoe  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:46:15pm

re: #655 MandyManners

"For better or for worse" if you are the president people look to you for example on how to behave, in all sorts of ways. So it does matter. Quite "broadly" if you will forgive the pun. The president does set a sort of moral tone for the country.

665 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:46:18pm

re: #636 Racer X

Well said.

Thanks.

666 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:46:58pm

re: #662 Kenneth

If he did that on his own time, maybe. But he messed around with Lewinsky at the office during working hours. It was disgraceful and an insult to the people who hired him for the job.

Well- he did keep arafat waiting, so there was one plus.

667 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:47:00pm

re: #658 doubter4444

I dub thee Terrier.

668 Racer X  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:47:26pm

re: #662 Kenneth

If he did that on his own time, maybe. But he messed around with Lewinsky at the office during working hours. It was disgraceful and an insult to the people who hired him for the job.

Yes but not illegal, and not impeachable. He was impeached because he LIED under oath.

669 Racer X  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:48:08pm

re: #666 Sharmuta

Oh jeez you hit the devil number again!

670 shragster  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:48:16pm

Speaking of media bias, here's a great short film on the Swedish Blood Libel against Israel "harvesting Palestinian organs." (Right)
[Link: www.aish.com...]

671 cliffster  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:48:41pm

re: #655 MandyManners

What matters is that Bill did put his pecker where he shouldn't have

A large part of me thinks that that is a matter between him and his wife.

What concerns me is the perjury and suborned perjury.

And the pompous way that prosecutors/congressmen pontificate that it doesn't matter what the crime was or its severity, perjury/obstruction must be prosecuted heavily to preserve integrity in the justice system.

Except when a democrat is involved, I guess.

672 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:48:46pm

re: #669 Racer X

Oh jeez you hit the devil number again!

With arafat! It's a sign! *cue creepy music*

673 yochanan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:48:54pm

re: #666 Sharmuta

Well- he did keep arafat waiting, so there was one plus.

damn you sharmuta that is 50th screen you have made me ruin THINKING OF SENDING YOU A BILL C.

674 SteveC  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:49:03pm

re: #669 Racer X

Oh jeez you hit the devil number again!

either that or she won the jackpot on a 1 armed bandit.

675 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:49:37pm

re: #664 Ojoe

"For better or for worse" if you are the president people look to you for example on how to behave, in all sorts of ways. So it does matter. Quite "broadly" if you will forgive the pun. The president does set a sort of moral tone for the country.

I agree that a man who cannot keep his marrige vows probably should not be trusted to take the oath of office. However, the MFM tried to keep our focus on Clinton's penis, and not on his perjury and suborning perjury. Adultery is not a crime, the other two matters are crimes.

676 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:49:40pm

re: #649 Ojoe

Palin must be stupid, she's pretty.

/10

Yep.

677 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:49:49pm

re: #662 Kenneth

If he did that on his own time, maybe. But he messed around with Lewinsky at the office during working hours. It was disgraceful and an insult to the people who hired him for the job.

I couldn't give a rat's ass about anybody else's affairs, but I was highly pissed over the fact that he was getting a blowjob while discussing sending troops into Bosnia with the Congressional leadership. He was on the phone at the time but the disrespect that showed to the office and the troops frosts me to this day.

678 Ben Hur  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:49:52pm

re: #662 Kenneth

If he did that on his own time, maybe. But he messed around with Lewinsky at the office during working hours. It was disgraceful and an insult to the people who hired him for the job.

Saw the strangest thing today in an elevator.

Maybe that didn't come out right.

Starting over:

Captivate Network, that has small screens in elevators in NYC with various news items, etc, had a poll question today:

What should Bill Clinton do to follow up on his N Korea trip (or something to that affect)?

The answer posted was "He should go straight to Monica Lewinsky's parents house and apologize for what he did to that girl..."

I was really shocked.

1. At the answer (because that chick made it a goal to, well, you know)
2. Out of all the answers they probably received, they put up a harsh one.

Must be an Obama thang.

679 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:50:30pm

re: #569 Buck

It looks like you are saying that only influence is needed to get a slot. And that is ridiculous.

You should admit though that listing GWB as the governor and president that might have had that influence on the Commanders accepting him in the program is, well, funny.

Only if you want to intentionally mis read what I posted, I guess.
There were two points i was making, so be clear:
1)

680 Racer X  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:50:41pm

re: #676 Cato the Elder

Yep.

I can totally see why you're madly in love with her.

681 Kenneth  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:50:47pm

re: #663 yochanan

Very decent people. I like them too, I just can't understand what they're saying.

682 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:51:13pm

re: #671 cliffster

And the pompous way that prosecutors/congressmen pontificate that it doesn't matter what the crime was or its severity, perjury/obstruction must be prosecuted heavily to preserve integrity in the justice system.

Except when a democrat is involved, I guess.

Oh c'mon. The price Clinton paid was quite adequate IMO.

683 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:51:19pm

re: #671 cliffster

And the pompous way that prosecutors/congressmen pontificate that it doesn't matter what the crime was or its severity, perjury/obstruction must be prosecuted heavily to preserve integrity in the justice system.

Except when a democrat is involved, I guess.

I like the way that the focus here has been about Sanford's crimes, and not his mistress.

684 Ojoe  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:51:31pm

re: #675 MandyManners

Correct. I remember the whole thing. And my lefty friends excused Clinton by saying "all men do that". As a man who does not, I was offended. Thanks Bill you SOB.

685 yochanan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:52:24pm

ISN'T a intern an unpaid employee?
and as he was her boss should he kept his hands and other parts off the employee?

two problems she was an employee and he lied i still voted for the scum bag the second time but at least we knew what we were getting NOW WITH THE ZERO

686 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:52:25pm

If we locked up every man who had a wandering penis,...

687 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:53:16pm

re: #686 MandyManners

If we locked up every man who had a wandering penis,...

. . .there would still be plenty of us "good" guys left.

688 Pianobuff  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:53:32pm

Just noticing that Obama's approval rating at Gallup is down to 50%, a new low. Rasmussen has Obama at 50% incidentally.

The RealClear Politics average of polls has him at 51.8%, helped in part by the one outlier poll of ABC, which has him at 57%, while the remainder of the polls are at 50-51%.

Politically, this would be a good time for the administration to do anything to divert attention from its performance and agenda. The CIA stuff might only be the beginning.

I predict lots of misdirection to be forthcoming.

689 Eowyn2  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:53:39pm

re: #522 Dianna

Just to demonstrate what I have to put up with - and remember that this is distilled from a great deal more, and the emotionally loaded material has been removed:

socks and sweets?
Santa Claus brigade?

690 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:53:52pm

re: #676 Cato the Elder

Yep.

Well hello, Dali.

691 SteveC  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:53:53pm

re: #675 MandyManners

I agree that a man who cannot keep his marrige vows probably should not be trusted to take the oath of office. However, the MFM tried to keep our focus on Clinton's penis, and not on his perjury and suborning perjury. Adultery is not a crime, the other two matters are crimes.

I hollered, "Don't look, Ethel!" But it was too late!

692 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:53:59pm

re: #675 MandyManners

I agree that a man who cannot keep his marrige vows probably should not be trusted to take the oath of office. However, the MFM tried to keep our focus on Clinton's penis, and not on his perjury and suborning perjury. Adultery is not a crime, the other two matters are crimes.

Which is why Sanford ought to be impeached. He lied.

693 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:54:00pm
694 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:54:16pm

re: #686 MandyManners

If we locked up every man who had a wandering penis,...

All you chicks would just be hanging around the jails...

695 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:54:30pm

re: #686 MandyManners

If we locked up every man who had a wandering penis,...

If we locked up every man who perjured himself or suborned perjury of others,...

696 Joo-LiZ  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:54:51pm

OT:
Recently posted is a Benny Morris lecture on the Refugee crises of the '48 war in Israel.

5 Parts on Palestinian Refugees:





In 2 Parts he talks about Jewish Refugees from Arab Lands:


There are a number of other questions in his Q&A.

In my opinion this is the most frank and forthright description of what most likely happened during the war. Must see.

697 yochanan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:55:00pm

re: #686 MandyManners

If we locked up every man who had a wandering penis,...

AS WELL AS A LOOSE VIJAYJAY since it takes two to tango
when I was in college I found out after the fact that I had dated a married woman at the time i did not know it.

698 Eowyn2  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:55:01pm

re: #662 Kenneth

If he did that on his own time, maybe. But he messed around with Lewinsky at the office during working hours. It was disgraceful and an insult to the people who hired him for the job.


as well as setting himself up for blackmail.

699 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:55:05pm

Gotta' go pick up The Kid. Later, sweet taters.

700 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:55:16pm

re: #686 MandyManners

If we locked up every man who had a wandering penis,...

Mine actually sings a "song of the open road". And it has a pretty good voice, too.

701 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:55:23pm

re: #646 Ben Hur

Pssst...!

Over here!

Camera pans to a dark corner of the dank D.C. underground parking lot.

Past the Lexii and Merks stands a lone figure, seen through the gray smoke of his cigarette only by the silhouette of his fedora.

Cautiously, Golberg approaches.

He know that dangers of Washington.

It's sprung!

The stranger speaks:

Check out page 130...

Goldberg can feel the world change on the back of his damp, gritty neck.

He hears it over and over again.

Check out page 130...

He can't shake the image. He can't shake the horror that he might have just missed...

Page 130.

Damn, you just outed CSM!

/X-files

702 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:55:24pm

re: #695 MandyManners

If we locked up every man who perjured himself or suborned perjury of others,...

...corporate corner offices would be for rent real cheap.

703 cliffster  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:55:49pm

re: #682 unrealizedviewpoint

Oh c'mon. The price Clinton paid was quite adequate IMO.

I don't think I'm really on board with that idea about perjury/obstruction. Example, I think it was stupid that Martha Stewart was convicted with a felony and served time, when even the investigators agreed she didn't actually do anything, but that she "obstructed justice". But she did, and that is the position always taken, and yet Clinton went unconvicted because "aw shucks, he just did what any man would do".

704 yochanan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:56:17pm

re: #688 Pianobuff

expect GOP show trials

hopefully this is ///

705 Joo-LiZ  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:56:18pm

re: #696 Joo-LiZ


There are a number of other questions in videos of his Q&A.

PIMF

706 Ben Hur  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:56:26pm

re: #675 MandyManners

However, the MFM tried to keep our focus on Clinton's penis,

Especially after he faked that fall at the Shark's house as cover for his penis straightening surgery...

Right turn, Clyde.

Was a sure giveaway.

707 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:56:43pm

re: #697 yochanan

AS WELL AS A LOOSE VIJAYJAY since it takes two to tango
when I was in college I found out after the fact that I had dated a married woman at the time i did not know it.

Yeah- women are not innocent either.

708 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:56:45pm

re: #658 doubter4444

Look, all I'm saying is that they were and are a powerful family, and have been so for a long time, certainly longer than the Kennedy clan.
I know the Kennedy's have the mystique, but the Bush's had the power.

I understand and am sympathetic to your plight in light of the fact that the Bush's horribly abused that power by silencing and jailing opponents like you and Code Pink and International Answer and ...
/

709 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:56:52pm

re: #693 buzzsawmonkey

Stop...please stop...I'm starting to hear Lee Marvin in "Paint Your Wagon," singing "I was born totin' a wanderin' rod."

Me, I hear him singing:

Gonna paint your wagon
gonna paint it fine
Gonna use oil-based paint
because the wood is pine

But then, I've only seen the Simpsons version of the movie.

710 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:57:11pm

re: #679 doubter4444

Only if you want to intentionally mis read what I posted, I guess.
There were two points I was making, so to be clear:
1)

That was weird, it just posted automatically.
Anyway
1) The Bush Family is and was powerful.
They been on the scene as power brokers since before WWII. Longer than the Kennedy family.
Is that controversial?

2) Powerful people have a better to get their kids into places others can't, if they want to.
Again is that controversial?
I never said, and don't think that's the only way things get done, all I was saying is that it's absurd to claim it does not happen.
Clearer?

711 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:57:35pm

re: #691 SteveC

I hollered, "Don't look, Ethel!" But it was too late!

boogie-dy boogie-dy!

712 itellu3times  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:57:55pm

re: #695 MandyManners

If we locked up every man who perjured himself or suborned perjury of others,...

... then Congress would be in session?

713 Ben Hur  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:58:27pm

re: #701 eschew_obfuscation

You have to agree, that:


I recently re-examined the panel’s report after a source, Deep Throat style, told me to “Go to page 130.

is a little over the top, no?

714 Kenneth  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:58:51pm

re: #677 LGoPs

That's exactly it!

715 Ojoe  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:59:09pm

re: #709 Occasional Reader

Wheels were made for spinnin'
Mules were made to pack
I've never seen a sight that didn't look better
Lookin' back ...

BBL

716 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:59:19pm

re: #713 Ben Hur

Actually- I think this shows Bernie needs help in reading. Why should anyone need to be told something like that?

717 SteveC  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:59:19pm

re: #693 buzzsawmonkey

Stop...please stop...I'm starting to hear Lee Marvin in "Paint Your Wagon," singing "I was born totin' a wanderin' rod."


Don't ya just hate it when you wake up in the middle of the night and your rod has wandered off?

718 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:00:17pm

re: #693 buzzsawmonkey

Stop...please stop...I'm starting to hear Lee Marvin in "Paint Your Wagon," singing "I was born totin' a wanderin' rod."

OMG. My parents loved the Paint Your Wagon soundtrack. I've heard the whole thing more times than I care to remember, and still hear "hand me down that can of beans" at the slightest reference.

719 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:00:22pm

re: #667 MandyManners

I dub thee Terrier.


I doubt that that's a good thing, I'm more of a Lab.
I just dislike being misunderstood.

720 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:00:32pm
721 Ben Hur  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:00:49pm

re: #716 Sharmuta

Actually- I think this shows Bernie needs help in reading. Why should anyone need to be told something like that?

I know.

Especially "Deep Throat style."

I think the whole image is funny.

722 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:01:35pm

re: #721 Ben Hur

I was thinking "kinky".

723 yochanan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:01:38pm

re: #721 Ben Hur

in a blue dress no doubt

724 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:01:45pm

re: #693 buzzsawmonkey

Stop...please stop...I'm starting to hear Lee Marvin in "Paint Your Wagon," singing "I was born totin' a wanderin' rod."

I've never seen that movie, but I love The Simpsons parody of it.

725 SteveC  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:01:58pm

Well now!

Cavuto is saying the new healthcare bill makes the IRS turn over your $$$ information to the new "Health Commissioner"!

726 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:02:07pm

re: #689 Eowyn2

socks and sweets?
Santa Claus brigade?

They want to feel better.

727 Pianobuff  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:02:16pm

re: #720 buzzsawmonkey

That's when you grab the bugle and sound "Genital Quarters."

Isn't that a college drinking game?

728 Ben Hur  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:02:28pm

re: #722 Sharmuta

I was thinking "kinky".

Then he would have mumbled, "Un firty..."


HAHAHAHAHHA!

729 Ben Hur  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:02:55pm

re: #728 Ben Hur

Then he would have mumbled, "Un firty..."

HAHAHAHAHHA!

Get it?

Cause his mouth is full??

AHAHAHAHAHAHAA!

730 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:02:59pm

re: #720 buzzsawmonkey

That's when you grab the bugle and sound "Genital Quarters."

You should really get the sack for that one.

/oh, dear... this could get ugly...

731 Eowyn2  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:03:17pm

re: #710 doubter4444

That was weird, it just posted automatically.
Anyway
1) The Bush Family is and was powerful.
They been on the scene as power brokers since before WWII. Longer than the Kennedy family.
Is that controversial?

2) Powerful people have a better to get their kids into places others can't, if they want to.
Again is that controversial?
I never said, and don't think that's the only way things get done, all I was saying is that it's absurd to claim it does not happen.
Clearer?


#1 Son Joseph Kennedy was supposed to be the one groomed for politics but he rebelled. Joe senior was VERY powerful behind the scenes during the depression (bootlegger) and during pre-war 40s. Really need to read up on that.

732 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:03:19pm

re: #728 Ben Hur

I'm just surprised the innuendo jokes held off this long.

733 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:03:21pm
734 calcajun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:03:36pm

re: #693 buzzsawmonkey

Stop...please stop...I'm starting to hear Lee Marvin in "Paint Your Wagon," singing "I was born totin' a wanderin' rod."

The concepts of "Lee Marvin" and "singing" do not compute.

735 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:03:45pm

re: #724 Mad Al-Jaffee

I've never seen that movie, but I love The Simpsons parody of it.

"Why aren't they shooting each other?! Their guns are RIGHT THERE!"

736 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:04:18pm

I suppose. I did already post "Jugg Liquors". Does that count as innuendo?

737 Bobblehead  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:04:27pm

re: #730 Occasional Reader

You should really get the sack for that one.

/oh, dear... this could get ugly...

This whole conversation is not fit for pubic consumption.

738 SteveC  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:04:28pm

re: #730 Occasional Reader

You should really get the sack for that one.

/oh, dear... this could get ugly...

Bugle in the bed, that is a little strange. Not quite as bad as the live chicken, egg beater, and the gallon of Grape jelly, but close!

739 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:04:59pm

re: #736 Sharmuta

I suppose. I did already post "Jugg Liquors". Does that count as innuendo?

better if it was a lingerie shop

740 Ben Hur  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:05:09pm

re: #731 Eowyn2

#1 Son Joseph Kennedy was supposed to be the one groomed for politics but he rebelled. Joe senior was VERY powerful behind the scenes during the depression (bootlegger) and during pre-war 40s. Really need to read up on that.

Joe Sr played an important role during WWII.

He was indispensable for keeping up morale.

Sure, it was Nazi morale, but morale nonetheless!

741 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:05:20pm

re: #730 Occasional Reader

You should really get the sack for that one.

/oh, dear... this could get ugly...

As long as nobody says Tea bag near Killgore we should be okay.
/oh damn.

742 Bobblehead  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:05:28pm

I can't believe I just said that.

743 Ben Hur  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:05:34pm

re: #732 Sharmuta

I'm just surprised the innuendo jokes held off this long.

Hard to avoid, I suppose.

744 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:05:44pm

re: #726 Dianna

They want to feel better.

I prefer chocolate and nylons to socks and sweets. You get more frauleins with chocolates und nylons.

/

745 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:05:59pm

re: #742 Bobblehead

I can't believe I just said that.

It was pretty funny.

746 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:06:09pm

re: #739 LGoPs

better if it was a lingerie shop

Or, as seen on The Sopranos, "Flatbush Bikini Waxing."

747 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:06:25pm

I'm worried about you OR. How on earth did you miss this one?

re: #527 Sharmuta

...I love happy endings.

748 Kragar  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:06:45pm

re: #744 OldLineTexan

I prefer chocolate and nylons to socks and sweets. You get more frauleins with chocolates und nylons.

/

My friends got me a sweater once.

The screamer was more fun.

749 SteveC  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:06:52pm

re: #732 Sharmuta

I'm just surprised the innuendo jokes held off this long.

re: #743 Ben Hur

Hard to avoid, I suppose.

Aren't you two supposed to be pillars of this community?

750 yochanan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:07:16pm

re: #731 Eowyn2

being pro nazi sort of killed it for him

751 3 wood  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:07:19pm

Good afternoon.

The market was up fractionally today. 8 days up in a row the longest streak in 28 months.

752 Aye Pod  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:07:25pm

Nazi Scum in Loughton

David T, August 26th 2009, 11:51 pm

[Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]

The Guardian reports:

Racist attackers abducted a Muslim community leader at knifepoint, bundled him into a car and threatened his life unless he stopped running prayer sessions in a community hall that has been the target of a British National party campaign.

Police have confirmed they are treating the incident as a hate crime and are investigating links with an earlier firebomb attack on the same man’s home.

Noor Ramjanally, 35, told the Guardian he had been the victim of a terror campaign which has also involved threats against his family after he began the Islamic prayer sessions in March. He said he fears for his life after the abduction at knifepoint, which happened at his home in Loughton, Essex, on Monday.

There is an astonishing quote from Pat Richardson:

Councillor Pat Richardson, leader of the BNP group on the local council, said her party was not behind the attacks on Ramjanally. “Firebombing is not a British method. A brick through the window is a British method, but firebombing is not a way of showing displeasure,” she said.

The BNP is a party of thugs and gangsters.

753 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:07:30pm

re: #744 OldLineTexan

I prefer chocolate and nylons to socks and sweets. You get more frauleins with chocolates und nylons.

/

And that's why I keep them in my Survival Kit. (Along with ONE forty-five caliber semi-automatic handgun, ONE miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible...)

754 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:07:36pm

re: #748 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My friends got me a sweater once.

The screamer was more fun.

Don't sweat the petty things, pet the sweaty things.

755 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:07:36pm

re: #743 Ben Hur

Hard to avoid, I suppose.

It's viagravating to cialis punning.

756 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:07:43pm

re: #658 doubter4444

Look, all I'm saying is that they were and are a powerful family, and have been so for a long time, certainly longer than the Kennedy clan.
I know the Kennedy's have the mystique, but the Bush's had the power.

That is true. It was not always used well in both cases. An example is that many talk about Joseph Kennedy had his political ambitions stifled by having bought Nazi stocks. Few people talk about how it was Prescott Bush who sold him those stocks.

This story is even from Fox.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Here is the straight dope - it dismisses some of the more wild accusations against Prescott, but what is left is bad enough.

[Link: www.straightdope.com...]

The best that can be said is that financial deals with the Nazis in the late 1930's was not illegal.

This is not to say that Prescott was a Nazi. It is to say that he would not let things like morality get in the way of making a profit.

757 yochanan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:07:52pm

BACK IN THE U.S.S.A.

758 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:08:05pm

re: #743 Ben Hur

Hard to avoid, I suppose.

I knew you'd deliver.

759 Ben Hur  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:08:09pm

re: #749 SteveC

Aren't you two supposed to be pillars of this community?

Moi?

760 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:08:17pm

OK, we have here a fine example of mixed signals:

X has joined with three other agencies to form the Project Search Coalition, an innovative healthcare based employment program for people who have disabilities. Many complex but routine jobs can be performed by individuals with developmental disabilities, even if they cannot read. These jobs include couriers, sterilization technicians and stockers.

I'm all in favor of helping the developmentally disabled live independent lives. But...

761 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:08:30pm

re: #753 Occasional Reader

And that's why I keep them in my Survival Kit. (Along with ONE forty-five caliber semi-automatic handgun, ONE miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible...)

Fella could have a fun weekend in Vegas with this stuff!

762 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:08:41pm
763 Kragar  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:08:42pm

re: #754 Mad Al-Jaffee

Don't sweat the petty things, pet the sweaty things.

Slippery little minx

764 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:09:29pm
765 SteveC  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:09:38pm

re: #748 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My friends got me a sweater once.

The screamer was more fun.

Actual Conversation:

Me: I'm going to Duke Children's Hospital next week to talk to parents of kids with heart defects.

Friend: You gonna tell them the sweater joke?

766 alegrias  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:10:06pm

THANK YOU, dear CHARLES Johnson, for this thread.

YOU are an unsung patriot for having blown this fraudulent coverup out into the open.

I hope President Bush acknowledges you and thanks you.

767 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:10:06pm

re: #763 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

SlipperyNimble little minx

768 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:10:07pm

re: #762 buzzsawmonkey

GMTA

Trivia time - what city was originally named in that line?

769 doubter4444  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:10:15pm

re: #731 Eowyn2

#1 Son Joseph Kennedy was supposed to be the one groomed for politics but he rebelled. Joe senior was VERY powerful behind the scenes during the depression (bootlegger) and during pre-war 40s. Really need to read up on that.

I have.
They both were powerful families.
Good enough?
I'm leaving the bone.

770 Kragar  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:11:14pm

re: #768 Mad Al-Jaffee

GMTA

Trivia time - what city was originally named in that line?

Dallas, but they changed it after the JFK assassination

771 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:11:16pm

re: #762 buzzsawmonkey

You'd have slim pickens if you didn't have that gear with you...

772 LGoPs  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:11:24pm

re: #760 Dianna

OK, we have here a fine example of mixed signals:
X has joined with three other agencies to form the Project Search Coalition, an innovative healthcare based employment program for people who have disabilities. Many complex but routine jobs can be performed by individuals with developmental disabilities, even if they cannot read. These jobs include couriers, sterilization technicians and stockers.

Hell, they could qualify as congressmen. Reading the laws they pass is not required.
/

773 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:12:03pm

re: #757 yochanan

BACK IN THE U.S.S.A.

Boned in the USA

If your bullshit detector's at redline
And threatens to burn out on max;
If you're mind's contemplating a breadline
Because teevee has starved it of facts;
If Lisinopril won't keep your blood pressure down,
If your vote is for nothing, your mayor's a clown,
And your congressman's whoring it all over town:
Don't think twice about it, why, don't even frown.
Because love it or leave it,
You'd better believe it,
Our health-care system is the best,
Our land's the envy of the rest,
Even our dope is heaven-blessed.
The U.S., beacon of the West.
We're number one, you see?
God curse you if you don't agree.
Now tell me a fart joke,
Jiggle your tits,
Give me cheap gas and more coke
Until my head splits.
Let's all say the pledge to the glorious flag.
Your mother's a drunk but don't call her a hag.
With Sarah as leader the world might well gag,
But who cares for them and their snoot?
All we need are their banks to hide taxable loot.
So pound on the table and scream woot woot woot.
We live in the land of the dumb-but-free -
A place that was made for thee.

774 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:12:08pm
775 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:12:19pm

re: #770 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Dallas, but they changed it after the JFK assassination

Upding for the correct answer!

776 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:12:35pm

re: #760 Dianna

OK, we have here a fine example of mixed signals:

I'm all in favor of helping the developmentally disabled live independent lives. But...

Is not being able to read the disability in itself, or a result of one?

777 Bobblehead  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:13:51pm

re: #766 alegrias

THANK YOU, dear CHARLES Johnson, for this thread.

YOU are an unsung patriot for having blown this fraudulent coverup out into the open.

I hope President Bush acknowledges you and thanks you.

Well..only the beginning of the thread, not down here though. Things are getting a little out-of-hand puns about buns and other private parts wise.

778 Silvergirl  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:14:16pm

re: #686 MandyManners

If we locked up every man who had a wandering penis,...

The ones left to run the country might actually accomplish great things. When we elect our leaders, I would love to know I'm voting for is one who does his thinking with the large head.

779 Dianna  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:14:55pm

re: #776 ArchangelMichael

Is not being able to read the disability in itself, or a result of one?

Result. This is about people who are developmentally disabled. As you're aware, that's a very broad spectrum.

780 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:15:15pm

re: #778 Silvergirl

The ones left to run the country might actually accomplish great things. When we elect our leaders, I would love to know I'm voting for is one who does his thinking with the large head.

Which is why I declined to vote for McCain.

781 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:15:31pm

re: #773 Cato the Elder

Looks like you're the one always going back to Sarah.

782 redstateredneck  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:15:49pm

re: #746 Mad Al-Jaffee

Or, as seen on The Sopranos, "Flatbush Bikini Waxing."

True. Saw it with my own eyes, I did.

783 Bobblehead  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:16:01pm

re: #780 Cato the Elder

How's the little doggie?

784 Silvergirl  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:16:11pm

PIMF
extraneous 'is'

Correction:

I would love to know I'm voting for one who does his thinking with the large head.

785 Aye Pod  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:16:35pm

Professor Richard Dawkins wants to convert Islamic world to evolution

The author of The God Delusion and The Selfish Gene, whose new book, The Greatest Show on Earth, is serialised in The Times next week, has topped bestseller lists all over the world but never in a predominantly Muslim country.

None of Professor Dawkins’ books, on evolution as well as religion, has ever been translated into Arabic, and his work has been heavily censored in Turkey. In an interview with The Times, he said that popularising evolution in the Islamic world, where creationist beliefs are strong, was a challenge he is keen to take up. “To be a bestseller in a Muslim country would be a personal triumph,” he said.

“I would like to see my books translated into Arabic. They haven’t been. They are all translated into Hebrew. Persian, I’m not sure. My books are translated into Turkish and they regularly get censored and suppressed.

“The experience of my Turkish publisher of The God Delusion was that he was threatened with arrest for blasphemy. He may even have been arrested, and my website has been banned in Turkey. I feel amused really. There’s something to be said for being suppressed, it makes people want to read you.”

continued...

[Link: entertainment.timesonline.co.uk...]

786 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:17:53pm

re: #783 Bobblehead

How's the little doggie?

With the angels. She had to be put down.

787 Bobblehead  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:20:19pm

re: #786 Cato the Elder

With the angels. She had to be put down.

I'm sorry to hear that. Poor little thing. I'm glad she found someone who cared about her at the end. Bless you.

788 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:21:17pm

re: #746 Mad Al-Jaffee

Or, as seen on The Sopranos, "Flatbush Bikini Waxing."

Well, it is Brooklyn (decker) after all.

789 Aye Pod  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:21:36pm

NSFW: Sarah Silverman - I love This Cheese

(warning: contains Sarah Silverman)

790 Occasional Reader  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:22:53pm

re: #773 Cato the Elder

A hate-America rant worthy of Michael Moore.

You should be, er, proud. If that's the right word.

/feh

791 theheat  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:24:54pm

This may be one of those huge victories that goes unreported, only because, like so many debunked urban legends, nobody is interested in the truth. While a lot of Bush's criticism was well-deserved, people think nothing of heaping this on, just for good measure. It isn't about being right, or having the facts, it's just about heaping bullshit on top of more bullshit because - hey - heaping bullshit on a man when he's down is a lot of fun.

FWIW - I appreciate it very much. It won't make Charles rich or turn the tide of the media, but I appreciate knowing he was right all along. Mapes? She frankly doesn't care, I'm sure.

792 yochanan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:27:06pm

re: #789 Jimmah

NSFW: Sarah Silverman - I love This Cheese

(warning: contains Sarah Silverman)


WELL THAT GIVES NEW MEANING TO THE TERM 'CHEESEHEAD'

793 theheat  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:29:16pm

re: #786 Cato the Elder

Sorry, Cato. Having you help her at the end was the best thing you could do for her, and probably the biggest stroke of luck in an otherwise unfortunate life.

794 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:30:47pm

re: #789 Jimmah

(warning: contains Sarah Silverman)

Upding just for that. Still laughing.

795 OldLineTexan  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:31:30pm

re: #790 Occasional Reader

Everybody's got something to hide, except me and my monkey.

/

796 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:32:10pm

re: #713 Ben Hur

You have to agree, that:

is a little over the top, no?

Indeed...


(back from a couple of errands)

797 bemused  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 1:56:28pm

To quote one the great minds on 'The Simpsons' , Nelson-

Ha-Ha!

798 JamesTKirk  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 2:18:18pm

re: #491 ladycatnip

re: #331 JamesTKirk
Vote for this bill, and you too can be just as healthy as the late Senator!


Unless you get the priviledged coverage everyone gets on the Hill. If they trotted out a bill with their benefits, I'd say go for it.

Senator Kennedy is dead. I don't want to be just as healthy as he is.

799 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 2:23:13pm

re: #790 Occasional Reader

A hate-America rant worthy of Michael Moore.

You should be, er, proud. If that's the right word.

/feh

If I hate America, then so did Mark Twain, H.L. Mencken, and Kurt Vonnegut. That's some pretty fine company.

Mockery is patriotic.

800 shane  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 2:46:12pm

This doesn't raise any questions. They were attempting to sway an election. They were lying to get their guy elected. There really aren't any questions.

801 Salamantis  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 2:55:30pm

In Dune by Frank Herbert, the Shadout Mapes was a person of honor and integrity.

/Mary is not the Mapes Herbert knew

802 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 2:56:21pm

In late, to toss out my 2 cents

One of the really striking things about the Rathergate incident is how little curiosity the rest of the media had in finding out the truth of what happened. Completely uninterested in finding out the source of the documents, and completely uninterested in examining how the obviously phony memos could have even gotten onto 60 Minutes in the first place.

IMHO (and realizing the generalization is unsupportable), there's a fairly good chance that the rest of the media was having a "glass houses" moment. A lot of them have either done pretty much the same, to one extent or another, or have friends in the profession who have.

803 debutaunt  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 3:30:15pm

re: #799 Cato the Elder

Superpatriot.

804 hopperandadropper  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 3:49:49pm

Mary Mapes = Jayson Blair

805 hopperandadropper  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 4:26:58pm

re: #773 Cato the Elder

There's a difference between knowing that things are not as we are led to believe and just having a knee-jerk arrested adolescence attitude toward it all. My question to Mr. "Boned in the USA" is, where do you expect to go and be less boned?

806 quickjustice  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 5:53:29pm

Mapes and Rather? Frauds? I'm shocked, shocked! ;-)

807 EaterOfFood  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 6:09:01pm

re: #57 TheMatrix31

Just go for it.

Foxnewsevilbeckhannityliescorruptmurdochburtonchim pbushitleroreillyoiliraq!

See how easy it is?

Wasn't that a song in a Disney movie?
/

808 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 7:29:20pm

Thanks again, Charles.

And Tammy Bruce. Not sure I would have ever heard of this before you brought Charles on the air on your radio show.

{{{Charles/Tammy}}}

809 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 7:36:52pm

re: #805 hopperandadropper

There's a difference between knowing that things are not as we are led to believe and just having a knee-jerk arrested adolescence attitude toward it all. My question to Mr. "Boned in the USA" is, where do you expect to go and be less boned?

Not the point.

810 BigDog  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 8:13:04pm

Thanks again, Charles

811 I Need A Bigger Gun  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 8:45:29pm

re: #65 Charles

Speaking of Bill O'Reilly, please note that he came out on Dan Rather's side during the scandal.

Another example of O'Reilly's spinelessness: the inability to criticize Rather, even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

812 kateca  Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:06:25pm

I know the thread is dead. Just wanted to thank you Charles. Rather-gate is what led me to LGF. I've been here ever since.

813 Mad Mullah  Fri, Aug 28, 2009 1:34:49am

This thread is obviously dead, I guess that I must have missed this one somehow. I can't say that I'm all that shocked to hear these new revelations about that despicable lying woman who attempted to fix a Presidential election. LGF obviously played a significant role in exposing the fraudulent memos. I remember reading about it here, time seems to fly by pretty quickly.

I really wanted to give out a few downpings to somebody in this thread, but unfortunately I can't, so I will take consolation in the fact that they've already been massively downpinged. I just wanted to add a couple more, because I feel that they deserve it.


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