Overnight Open Thread
Open • Views: 5,695
It is certain that a book is not harmless merely because no one is consciously offended by it.
— T. S. Eliot
1146 comments
2 |
StudSupreme Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:52:36pm |
Evenin', leezardoz...
I'd like to start off this evening with a question:
Are your liberal/Obama-voting friends showing any anxiety or confusion lately?
Mine certainly are ;-)
| 3 |
ArmyWife Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:55:40pm |
Well, group. It's 2am in my normal time zone, so I think I shall hit the sack for as much sleep as I tend to get in a hotel room. Tomorrow I must astound with my brilliance at the conference I am attending. I'll check later!
| 4 |
Van Helsing Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:58:06pm |
If this is the overnight thread, it must be way past my bedtime.
G'nite all. Have fun.
| 5 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:59:12pm |
| 6 |
BryanS Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:00:12pm |
re: #2 StudSupreme
Evenin', leezardoz...
I'd like to start off this evening with a question:
Are your liberal/Obama-voting friends showing any anxiety or confusion lately?
Mine certainly are ;-)
Yes. I've even noted signs of despair. Just today, a colleague of mine expressed frustration that he no longer knows what Obama even stands for. I explained to him that he ran on nothing but hope and change--empty rhetoric. To which he acknowledged he's not even getting that.
| 8 |
Syrah Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:00:50pm |
re: #2 StudSupreme
Evenin', leezardoz...
I'd like to start off this evening with a question:
Are your liberal/Obama-voting friends showing any anxiety or confusion lately?
Mine certainly are ;-)
The Obama tide is ebbing.
But as with tides, . . .
| 9 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:01:45pm |
re: #7 BatGuano
We live in interesting times.
We sure do. I'm also feeling romantic for the 70s. Now that's something.
| 12 |
BatGuano Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:02:45pm |
re: #8 Syrah
There is a tide in the affairs of men.
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.
On such a full sea are we now afloat,
And we must take the current when it serves,
Or lose our ventures.
| 14 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:04:25pm |
re: #12 BatGuano
There is a tide in the affairs of men.
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.
On such a full sea are we now afloat,
And we must take the current when it serves,
Or lose our ventures.
William Shakespeare. A better playwright you will never find.
Good night for real this time.
| 15 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:05:06pm |
Posted this on the other thread before I saw the LNDT was up and running-
Let me guess some of the left's criticisms of 0bama:
-Not cozying up to Hugo Chavez quick enough
-Not taking over enough sectors of the economy quick enough
-Not throwing democratically elected gov't of Iraq to the wolves quick enough
-Not sending enough money to 'resistance' groups like Hizbullah or Hamas
-Authorized the slayings of three black youths on the high seas
-Not throwing Colombia to the wolves quick enough
-Not cozying up to Achmedinejahd quick enough
-Not prosecuting Bush Administration officials quick enough
-Not cozying up to Robert Mugabe quick enough
-Not closing down Guantanamo Bay quick enough
-Not thowing Isreal to the wolves quick enough
-Not cozying up to Daniel Ortega quick enough
-Not ending Bush's imperialistic war for oil in Afghanistan quick enough
| 16 |
William Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:06:08pm |
Tomorrow night (August 31st), National Geographic airs a show focused on the science behind 9-11 / the collapse of the Twin Towers. It took Purdue University 2 years to create the computer simulation, using actual blue prints and schematics:
9-11: Science an Conspiracy
[Link: channel.nationalgeographic.com...]
| 17 |
keithgabryelski Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:07:52pm |
I've posted version 2.1 of the Health care questions document. I'm still behind, but looking to pick up on answering questions tomorrow and tuesday.
[Link: www.gabryelski.com...]
It was a little tougher this week. There was a lot of mail that required research before including (verifying claims). I, also, started getting hate mail on answered questions (which there was exactly one), or the perception that I was glossing over the unasked questions:
The bill provides that there will be "NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS." How would an undocumented alien be distinguished from citizens when requesting health care (or more specifically, when the hospital gets reimbursed)?
Anyway, so a added the new question.
| 18 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:08:09pm |
re: #15 Fenway_Nation
Posted this on the other thread before I saw the LNDT was up and running-
Let me guess some of the left's criticisms of 0bama:
-Not cozying up to Hugo Chavez quick enough
-Not taking over enough sectors of the economy quick enough
-Not throwing democratically elected gov't of Iraq to the wolves quick enough
-Not sending enough money to 'resistance' groups like Hizbullah or Hamas
-Authorized the slayings of three black youths on the high seas
-Not throwing Colombia to the wolves quick enough
-Not cozying up to Achmedinejahd quick enough
-Not prosecuting Bush Administration officials quick enough
-Not cozying up to Robert Mugabe quick enough
-Not closing down Guantanamo Bay quick enough
-Not thowing Isreal to the wolves quick enough
-Not cozying up to Daniel Ortega quick enough
-Not ending Bush's imperialistic war for oil in Afghanistan quick enough
Depends who you consider 'the left', but there's an element that would agree with all of those.
| 19 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:08:33pm |
re: #9 Gus 802
We sure do. I'm also feeling romantic for the 70s. Now that's something.
Skyrocketing inflation, increased energy prices, double-digit unemployment and somebody in the White House who has no idea what they're doing...
/Party like it's 1979, man!
| 20 |
pat Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:10:09pm |
Obama as Christian Jewish philosopher on health care anything. The angel wings are falling off.
[Link: iam7545.wordpress.com...]
| 21 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:10:16pm |
re: #15 Fenway_Nation
True. Many thought he would "ban" Exxon and others. To rule by decree! Congress is off balance now with all of the Dems. But hey, thank goodness for the balance of power. Presidential power, while significant, is still limited.
| 22 |
keithgabryelski Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:11:00pm |
re: #19 Fenway_Nation
Skyrocketing inflation, increased energy prices, double-digit unemployment and somebody in the White House who has no idea what they're doing...
/Party like it's 1979, man!
Disco, Album oriented rock, and some song by the Starland Vocal Band:
| 23 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:11:37pm |
re: #19 Fenway_Nation
Skyrocketing inflation, increased energy prices, double-digit unemployment and somebody in the White House who has no idea what they're doing...
/Party like it's 1979, man!
Yeah. I turned 18 in 1979. Talk about rage boy.
| 24 |
BryanS Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:12:23pm |
re: #19 Fenway_Nation
Skyrocketing inflation, increased energy prices, double-digit unemployment and somebody in the White House who has no idea what they're doing...
/Party like it's 1979, man!
But will the public blame the Dems for all these problems? Certainly Bush and the Republican Congress so long as we had it did nothing to curb big government.
| 25 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:12:23pm |
re: #23 Gus 802
Yeah. I turned 18 in 1979. Talk about rage boy.
I turned six. I was crabby if I didn't get my juice.
| 26 |
pat Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:12:53pm |
re: #19 Fenway_Nation
Good summation. BS Science, Economics, Religion, National History, World History, Personal History, ...Just Bullshit. Does this idiot know anything other than thuggery?
| 27 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:13:34pm |
re: #25 SanFranciscoZionist
I turned six. I was crabby if I didn't get my juice.
Apple juice!
I want apple juice! Jugo!
/
| 29 |
jacksontn Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:17:52pm |
Obama Followers ...
Your Tears Will Be Delicious ...
I spend so much time
Believing all the lies
To keep the dream alive
Now it makes me sad
It makes me mad at truth
For loving what was you ...
One Bill At A Time you will be defeated ... delicious ...
| 30 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:18:55pm |
re: #22 keithgabryelski
Disco, Album oriented rock, and some song by the Starland Vocal Band:
Yikes!
This is better. ;)
| 31 |
pink freud Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:19:15pm |
re: #29 jacksontn
OH MY GOODNESS! Jackson!! So nice to see you! :)
Where've you been, we've missed you!
| 32 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:19:51pm |
| 35 |
JacksonTn Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:23:08pm |
re: #31 pink freud
OH MY GOODNESS! Jackson!! So nice to see you! :)
Where've you been, we've missed you!
Pink ... sleeping ...
| 36 |
StudSupreme Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:27:18pm |
re: #24 BryanS
But will the public blame the Dems for all these problems? Certainly Bush and the Republican Congress so long as we had it did nothing to curb big government.
True. The Republican party is not to be trusted either.
I really wish I was a lot more capable and smart, because if I was, I would start a national political movement with the following objectives:
1. In the next 2 elections ('10 and '12), everyone nationwide should NOT vote for the incumbent at either a national, state or local level. Whoever the incumbent is - regardless of length of service, party affiliation or past record - should be 100% shunned.
2. Whatever person the Democrats, Republicans or any other party fields for the now vacant office(s), everyone should shun any candidate who is a Lawyer. Many of Washington's politicians are Lawyers, and they have created the current judicial, legal and political systems. Lawyers are trained to delay, obfuscate, avoid or manipulate the truth in order to win, and throw tons of paperwork, motions and rules in the way of getting the job done. A Lawyer is the WORST person to elect to public office.
3. Every voter should then contact the candidate of their choice and tell them "I'll vote for you on one condition - that you resign your party affiliation."
We need to start from scratch. It's the only way.
| 37 |
pink freud Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:27:19pm |
re: #35 JacksonTn
I haven't been here much either, life interfered for a while. ;)
| 38 |
pat Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:29:49pm |
re: #37 pink freud
But you are always missed.
(and you have the best nic ever)
| 39 |
pink freud Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:31:52pm |
re: #38 pat
And you are and always have been such a doll, Pat. :)
Thank you.
| 40 |
BryanS Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:33:35pm |
re: #36 StudSupreme
I wish we could start from scratch. Actually, one tactic that would be used to slow down the Senate if the Dems attempt reconciliation--reading every piece of legislation into the record before voting on it--should be the entire platform of some Senate candidate somewhere.
Our Constitution is only a few pages long, yet legislation has gotten ridiculously out of touch and overly convoluted because our government has started taking on the traits of bureaucracies found in Europe.
Could you imagine how much more simple, plain, and how much less government we'd get if everything that was voted on had to be read into the record? A Senator that simply stated their platform would be to require all legislation be read into the record would get my vote!
| 41 |
HypnoToad Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:35:02pm |
As of twenty minutes ago, the fire had not reached the Mt. Wilson
main antenna farm or observatory. There was some flame near the tall channel 4 (NBC) tower a little ways to the Northwest. Trees just west of the towercam were undamaged in silhouette against the smoke. The antennas can be rebuilt if damaged, but the observatory is perhaps the most historic astronomy site on Earth. Pray it survives.
| 42 |
BryanS Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:38:27pm |
re: #41 HypnoToad
As of twenty minutes ago, the fire had not reached the Mt. Wilson
main antenna farm or observatory. There was some flame near the tall channel 4 (NBC) tower a little ways to the Northwest. Trees just west of the towercam were undamaged in silhouette against the smoke. The antennas can be rebuilt if damaged, but the observatory is perhaps the most historic astronomy site on Earth. Pray it survives.
Liberals will no doubt lament the policies that oppose clearing undergrowth by allowing controlled burns of woods.
| 43 |
HypnoToad Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:42:22pm |
Undergrowth on the observatory grounds is well controlled, but the pine forest is fairly dense. We had to jump through several hoops and wait quite some time to get permission to cut one tree that was encroaching on the view from the 100" dome.
| 44 |
JacksonTn Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:46:33pm |
my "progressive" friends tell me the love affair is over ...
I'm still hurtin' from the last time
You walked on this heart of mine
I can't find much to believe in
You let me down so many times
Heaven knows how i love you
But i'm tired of holding on
You better kiss me
'cause your gonna miss me when i'm gone ... delicious ...
I don't know what's going on ... hahahahahaha ... I do ...
but ... where are they gonna go? ...
| 45 |
ArchangelMichael Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:47:39pm |
re: #43 HypnoToad
Undergrowth on the observatory grounds is well controlled, but the pine forest is fairly dense. We had to jump through several hoops and wait quite some time to get permission to cut one tree that was encroaching on the view from the 100" dome.
Wind carrying embers could still be a pro... ALL GLORY TO HYPNOTOAD!
| 46 |
Syrah Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:49:52pm |
re: #44 JacksonTn
but ... where are they gonna go? ...
They will go to something even more radical and extreme.
Moderation is but a dream.
| 47 |
Shiplord Kirel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:50:53pm |
re: #33 Fenway_Nation
Jeez...I think I was 3 in 1979.
re: #25 SanFranciscoZionist
I turned six. I was crabby if I didn't get my juice.
re: #23 Gus 802
Yeah. I turned 18 in 1979. Talk about rage boy.
Eegad! I was 30 in 1979. The mid to late 70s were probably the all-time low for American culture; disco, leisure suits, shag haircuts. I am proud to say that I never wore a leisure suit. Never. Unfortunately that boast is useless because practically nobody will now admit to having worn one. All of this was on top of the bungling and incompetence of the justly reviled Carter administration and may to some extent have been caused by it.
| 48 |
SixDegrees Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:52:56pm |
re: #43 HypnoToad
Undergrowth on the observatory grounds is well controlled, but the pine forest is fairly dense. We had to jump through several hoops and wait quite some time to get permission to cut one tree that was encroaching on the view from the 100" dome.
During the Yellowstone fires in 1988, fire swept to within a few hundred yards of the Old Faithful Inn, one of the gems of the National Park System's lodging establishments. Staff volunteered to remain behind, and deployed on the roof with brooms, brushing off embers as they landed on the log structure. A shift of wind literally at the last minute drove the fires away from the building and it survived. It has since installed an elaborate fire suppression system that dumps a waterfall from the ridgeline over the entire structure.
Keeping my fingers crossed for Mt. Wilson. Best of luck to everyone there.
| 50 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:05:01am |
Sine we're a little slow now, I'm asking if anyone has seen, Inglorious Bastards. Is it worth seeing?
| 51 |
JacksonTn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:08:31am |
re: #50 BatGuano
Sine we're a little slow now, I'm asking if anyone has seen, Inglorious Bastards. Is it worth seeing?
BG .. I saw it this evening ...
It was kinda slow .. and I covered my eyes during the gross stuff ... too many subtitles ... but it was a good movie .. and the ending was great ... Brad Pitt was the best character in the movie ...
| 52 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:13:06am |
re: #51 JacksonTn
Thanks, I think I'll give it a try. Pitt can be a good actor when is not looking pretty for the camera.
| 53 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:17:49am |
re: #50 BatGuano
Sine we're a little slow now, I'm asking if anyone has seen, Inglorious Bastards. Is it worth seeing?
I loved it. Big fun.
| 54 |
JacksonTn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:18:00am |
re: #52 BatGuano
Thanks, I think I'll give it a try. Pitt can be a good actor when is not looking pretty for the camera.
BG ... he really does have the best scenes in the movie ... it was funny ... and you almost feel bad about laughing about the subject matter ...
| 55 |
freetoken Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:19:49am |
My... the spinoffs are looking pretty barren. It seems that Stinky is enforcing the no-blog-pimping rule now?
Perhaps some of you would like to put some of your favorite links from today's browsing up there?
| 56 |
Syrah Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:21:51am |
It may be a trick of the light, or the thickness of the smoke, but it looks like the brightest burning fires near the observatory have died down a bit.
Crossing fingers.
Goodnight all.
| 58 |
JacksonTn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:26:23am |
It's early in the morning ... but to my friend albusteve ... wherever you are ... Keith ...
First the sun and then the moon ... one of them will be around soon ..
slipping away ... don't forget that politics does not mean everything ... and you can't take it back once it leaves the tongue ... something I always struggle with ...
| 59 |
HypnoToad Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:27:54am |
re: #56 Syrah
Thanks, I just got a refresh on the towercam also. If anything, the smoke looks a bit thicker than it did an hour ago. Hopefully, its dying down because of the PhosChek they dumped just downslope earlier today as a protective measure.
| 60 |
sngnsgt Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:30:26am |
How's folks doing in Cali? I'm in Las Vegas and the sky looks pretty nasty here.
| 61 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:30:32am |
| 62 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:30:33am |
re: #53 Killgore Trout
Thanks, KT. My wife is taking Tuesday off I think we'll try it.
| 63 |
Carridine Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:31:01am |
re: #22 keithgabryelski
Keith, the B-side of 'Afternoon Delight' was 'After the Gold Rush', a capella, by this gifted group... and I caught a lot of snarky criticism by friends who learned of MY pleasure at listening to 'After the Gold Rush' at its recorded speed, 45rpm, but ALSO at 33 and 78!
Their voices just melded and flowed, before chipmunks were popular and before frequency-shifting software made it so easy...
Thanks for selecting Starland Vocal Band!
| 64 |
Carridine Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:32:56am |
re: #51 JacksonTn
Thanks for the review, Jackson... its playing in Bangkok and my sons want to see it... is it suitable for a 16- and 14-yr-old?
| 65 |
JacksonTn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:34:56am |
re: #64 Carridine
Thanks for the review, Jackson... its playing in Bangkok and my sons want to see it... is it suitable for a 16- and 14-yr-old?
Carridine ... well, I would say it is not worse than any video game out there ... it is just what it is ... no more gross than any horror movie ... imo ... yep ... probably okay for your older kids ...
| 66 |
Karridine Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:37:13am |
re: #65 JacksonTn
Thank you, I appreciate your prompt response, JT
| 67 |
JacksonTn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:42:08am |
Good Night ya'll ...
dark clouds ... will ... my path is ... to be free ... drop the cross of self-denial ...
Isn't everybody sick of it all? ...
| 68 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:42:40am |
BTW, I think Titanic was the worst 200 million dollar movie in the history of 200 million dollar movies (yeah, I've had a couple of Nehi's and I'm looking for trouble).
| 71 |
ArchangelMichael Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:47:06am |
re: #68 BatGuano
BTW, I think Titanic was the worst 200 million dollar movie in the history of 200 million dollar movies (yeah, I've had a couple of Nehi's and I'm looking for trouble).
Wasn't Michael Bay Presents: EXPLOSIONS Transformers 2 a 200 million dollar movie?
I heard nothing but "that movie blew" from everyone I know who saw it including those easily amused or with crappy taste in movies.
| 72 |
Karridine Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:47:42am |
Uhm... well, with the huge proviso that we don't WATCH horror movies!
I figured out a long time ago that IF my nervous system is a reprogrammable computer, then putting HORROR and hatred and unrequited loathing into my system was a double-plus UN-good act ...
| 73 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:47:44am |
re: #68 BatGuano
Not too many people get in trouble for stating the obvious.
/At least until they point out that 0bama has no idea what he's doing.
| 74 |
Karridine Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:49:28am |
re: #73 Fenway_Nation
What?! NO CLOTHES!?
Shut your mouth, Filthy UNBELIEVER! Obama knows exactly what he's doing, so there...
| 75 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:52:54am |
I think ice weasel linked to some artwork that featured a clothes-less 0bama earlier this weekend...
| 76 |
ArchangelMichael Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:52:59am |
re: #60 sngnsgt
How's folks doing in Cali? I'm in Las Vegas and the sky looks pretty nasty here.
I'm far enough south so the fires aren't an issue but it feels like its still 90-something out and I cant sleep. Same thing last night. I don't think I actually fell asleep until about 5am because it was miserable.
SoCal is definitely making up for the previous 20 or so days of August where it was unusually cool and mild.
| 77 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:54:31am |
re: #75 Fenway_Nation
I think ice weasel linked to some artwork that featured a clothes-less 0bama earlier this weekend...
You REALLY don't want to see what comes up when you google Obama unicorn...
shudder
not even kidding. :(
| 78 |
Karridine Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:55:23am |
And for those of us watching for ANY hopeful signs from Muslims and Iranians, there IS SOME HOPE...
It ain't no beacon of beauty high on a hill, but it DOES indicate undercurrents of courage and principle... (YouTUBE, short, about 2 min)
| 79 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:56:09am |
re: #71 ArchangelMichael
Never saw Transformers. 200 million and a tired script about the tragic sinking of a state of the art ship and it did not even delve into the "how".Just the story of a rich girl (a genius, no less) and poor boy who were thrown together into a waste of 2 hours of our time.
| 80 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:57:04am |
re: #74 Karridine
What?! NO CLOTHES!?
Shut your mouth, Filthy UNBELIEVER! Obama knows exactly what he's doing, so there...
SHUN THE NONBELIEVER! SHUUUN!
We're on the way to Candy Mountain! It's a magical world full of sweets, and joy, and joyness...
| 82 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 12:59:11am |
re: #80 iceweasel
Ice, you be so liberal, but you be so cool.
| 84 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:00:19am |
re: #79 BatGuano
What was that movie that came out not too long ago with the lanky, goofy-looking guy who was probably from another planet lecturing us earthlings on how we all were going to die unless we gave up all our technological advances over the last 200 year?
I don't think it was The Day the Earth Stood Still remake...
Oh...I remember now. It was called An Inconvenient Truth
| 85 |
Karridine Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:01:16am |
re: #80 iceweasel
Okay, I UNDERSTAND...
ANY CRITICISM of ideas, ideologies, decisions, dicta, orders or failed policies is RACIST... automatically... because it isn't magical and joyful and candy-mounting...
| 86 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:02:00am |
re: #85 Karridine
Fidel Castro picked up that mantra this week...
| 87 |
HypnoToad Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:02:58am |
As of a few minutes ago, the top of Mt. Wilson is still intact. Two bright flareups on ridges a mile or so to the west. The towercam is now updating more regularly as more people have gone to bed and stopped bludgeoning their server.
| 88 |
ArchangelMichael Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:03:04am |
Apparently to complement the Roomba, iRobot has a floor washing robot now called a Scooba... I shit you not.
"We don't know who struck first, us, or them. But we know that it was us that scorched the sky. At the time they were dependent on solar-power and it was believed that they would be unable to survive without an energy-source as abundant as the sun."
| 89 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:04:38am |
re: #84 Fenway_Nation
What was that movie that came out not too long ago with the lanky, goofy-looking guy who was probably from another planet lecturing us earthlings on how we all were going to die unless we gave up all our technological advances over the last 200 year?
I don't think it was The Day the Earth Stood Still remake...
Oh...I remember now. It was called An Inconvenient Truth
KLAATU BARACKA NIKTO!
| 90 |
Karridine Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:05:03am |
re: #86 Fenway_Nation
Hey, if it GETS TRACTION, is a real barn-burner, crowd-pleasing shibboleth, then Fiddle Castrato would be STOOPID not to chant it...
| 91 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:05:04am |
re: #83 iceweasel
Great, listening to some Beach boys and reliving my youth. It's good.
| 92 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:08:09am |
re: #84 Fenway_Nation
Oh, I shunned him. Shuuun the be3liever!
| 93 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:08:26am |
I think I'd have to listen to some Cult, Queensryche or Social Distortion to re-live my youth.
| 94 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:10:07am |
re: #82 BatGuano
Ice, you be so liberal, but you be so cool.
All of HuffPo they love me, from the bleachers they screamin
All of dKos is bouncin they like the way I be leanin
All the haters be hatin, off the posts that I'm makin
But all the liberals they love it just to see one of us make it
;)
| 95 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:12:26am |
re: #89 iceweasel
Iceweasal. You are not supposed to know about this classic retelling of the life of Christ, But it is so cool that you do.my favorite SF movie of all time.
| 96 |
ArchangelMichael Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:13:38am |
I mentioned this at the end of the thread downstairs but I'll ask here.
Considering how many conservative bloggers are either drinking ODS/nirther kool aid or are going along with it for one reason or another, I'm afraid to check out the site of Bill Whittle out of fear that I will find kookspiracies there.
Has anyone been following him since his rebuttal of Jon Stewart's 'Hiroshima was a war crime' bullshit? Has he fallen into ODS, nirtherism, Paulian kookonomics or become an apologist for those who have?
| 97 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:14:59am |
re: #61 Fenway_Nation
Uribe, a key U.S. ally in Latin America, is not considered a high-risk patient and will continue working from his computer, officials said.
Heck, maybe that sleazebag pussy hound Sanford could take some pointers. He leaves his post when he's healthy. This guy has the freakin' swine flu and he's still in the hunt.
| 98 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:16:31am |
re: #97 theheat
And they've both been to Argentina this year...
Wonder if Sanford picked up a little something he didn't know about right away...
| 99 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:17:21am |
re: #98 Fenway_Nation
C'mon, that itching and burning ain't the swine flu, dear ;-)
| 101 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:19:29am |
re: #100 BatGuano
Seen it. I've seen just about all of them. It's my useless talent number 57.
| 102 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:20:47am |
re: #96 ArchangelMichael
Last I saw was his explanation for the Hiroshima- Nagasaki bombings.
| 103 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:24:36am |
re: #95 BatGuano
Iceweasal. You are not supposed to know about this classic retelling of the life of Christ, But it is so cool that you do.my favorite SF movie of all time.
That's my second favourite. Number one is Forbidden Planet!
And you're right-- total Christ motif. Hadn't really thought about that.
Number 3 is probably Them!
Hard to say though...
| 104 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:27:23am |
re: #85 Karridine
Okay, I UNDERSTAND...
ANY CRITICISM of ideas, ideologies, decisions, dicta, orders or failed policies is RACIST... automatically... because it isn't magical and joyful and candy-mounting...
Candy-mounting? Have you been reading the Meese Report again?
| 105 |
ArchangelMichael Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:27:32am |
re: #103 iceweasel
That's my second favourite. Number one is Forbidden Planet!
"I'm a stranger in this so-called planet, and I was just wondering
if you could tell me where I could get hold of some of the real stuff."
| 106 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:28:45am |
re: #103 iceweasel
Them! James Whitmore. Forbidden plant I think starred Leslie Nielsen, but it has been awhile, although I can't forget Robbie the Robot.
| 107 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:28:47am |
re: #103 iceweasel
Another mondo ants flick is "Empire of the Ants", with Joan Collins. Mega bad, or good, depending on how campy you want to get. Then, there's "The Giant Gila Monster", "Attack of the Giant Leeches", "The Killer Shews", and a few others in the vein of postwar nuclear spookmonster stuff.
| 108 |
HypnoToad Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:29:36am |
re: #103 iceweasel
Upding for Forbidden Planet. My fave too, although they have that unfortunate voiceover at the beginning. They said that man makes it to the moon at the end of the next century, some 140 years after the movie was made. It actually took us thirteen years...
| 109 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:32:20am |
re: #107 theheat
I saw them all except the "leeches". Good times.
| 110 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:34:25am |
re: #109 BatGuano
Leeches is probably the best of that bunch, honestly. If you can get past the black rubber bags the actors wore to portray leeches in the water, which looked exactly like today's black plastic garbage bags, and just as phony, some of the supporting actors were actually quite good.
| 112 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:35:45am |
re: #104 iceweasel
Candy-mounting? I thought that was covered in the Maplethorpe photos...
| 113 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:36:20am |
re: #111 BatGuano
Reptilicus, if you can find it. Attack of the Mushroom People is another, and even more rare. Both in the Godzilla/postwar Japan sci-fi style.
| 114 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:36:23am |
re: #110 theheat
If I can find it. I'll have look. I love those movies.
| 115 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:38:10am |
re: #113 theheat
I rember reptilicus. The final scene was his claw sinking to the bottom of the ocean.
| 116 |
SixDegrees Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:38:59am |
re: #108 HypnoToad
Upding for Forbidden Planet. My fave too, although they have that unfortunate voiceover at the beginning. They said that man makes it to the moon at the end of the next century, some 140 years after the movie was made. It actually took us thirteen years...
There's a remake of sorts in the works, due out next year. Apparently, someone had the good sense not to attempt an actual redo of the original - which is flawless and cannot be improved upon - and has opted to do a "prequel" to the original, detailing the Belerophon expedition and it's miserable fate.
No word on whether Nielson will be given a cameo; I certainly hope so.
| 117 |
redc1c4 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:39:12am |
re: #87 HypnoToad
As of a few minutes ago, the top of Mt. Wilson is still intact. Two bright flareups on ridges a mile or so to the west. The towercam is now updating more regularly as more people have gone to bed and stopped bludgeoning their server.
the fires sure as hell will... the view from Altadena...
| 118 |
SixDegrees Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:40:13am |
re: #111 BatGuano
Dark Star was also very good.
That's a great movie. One of John Carpenter's first films, as weird as that seems.
| 119 |
redc1c4 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:40:43am |
re: #115 BatGuano
I rember reptilicus. The final scene was his claw sinking to the bottom of the ocean.
i thought it was that he'd lost a foot or a tail piece to the depth charges.
loved the bazooka drug bombs...
/the things i remember %-)
| 120 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:41:10am |
re: #113 theheat
Reptilicus, if you can find it. Attack of the Mushroom People is another, and even more rare. Both in the Godzilla/postwar Japan sci-fi style.
God I love all those movies, that whole genre. It's really an expression of post-WWII nuclear fear and also Cold War paranoia, if you think about it.
Also, the original Invasion of the Body Snatchers-- CLASSIC film, and it has all these creepy 'afraid of creeping communism' tones to it. Not intended by the author or the director, but it's there.
Horror/sci-fi are genres which are rarely given any respect, but in fact I think they're the genres most likely to display the true anxieties and fears of a culture, albeit in a heavily symbolic way.
| 121 |
ArchangelMichael Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:41:21am |
re: #116 SixDegrees
Even as a prequel, I have mixed feelings about this.
I've heard a rumor that there will be some "reimagining" involved as well. Particularly when it comes to the fate of the Krell and the function, or method of function, of the The Great Machine.
| 122 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:41:43am |
| 123 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:42:34am |
And at the mere mention of Maplethorpe, I feel the need to track down some brain bleach. Nothing wrong with Jennifer Tilly, but don't re-visit her too much on the same weekend.
How about some opertaic brain bleach?
| 124 |
Walahi Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:43:10am |
Hello all. I have been slowly developing this on-going observation. I think the political labels used in American politics are encumbering real conservatives and distort the dialogue between the political parties.
In as simple a manner as I can put it (without being overly pedantic I mean), the fields of 'right' and 'left' are loaded political terms that have no more relevant meaning. Right/Conservative poltical thought is centred on the individual. The government is very limited, providing only boundries of that individual freedom. Therefore, the highes and lows of society rest with individual responsibility. Hence classic liberal democracy goes hand in hand with capitalism.
Leftwing politics is focused the welfare of the society as a whole (society being embodied by the State). The emphasis is not on the individual. Therefore government is tasked with providing for a standard of living, care, education and participates actively in job-creation. Furthermore, most commodoties, production of goods, etc will have government participation and interests. Because of the extensive government planning, the individual's 'freedom' is limited not by ability or work but by resources government is willing to allocate per person.
Both sides of this classic dichotomy have faults and certain aspects work well on paper but not in reality (for the extreme capitalism model see Chile's privatisation of water supplies and the lack of regulation and oversight and for leftwing poltics, practically every communist or socialist country provides many examples I simply don't have space to develop).
I feel that most Americans (and Western society as a whole for that matter) are happy to accept the middle ground that leans more conservative than left: regulatory oversight (i.e. laws) that find explanation and application in indepedent courts (i.e the common law system) with very limited instances providing for government intervention; a way to 'reboot' the system when it gets to an emergency.
Unfortunately in political thought, conservatives/the right are lumped together with Nazis, fascists, etc. Therefore anything that is racist or anti-immigration is labelled 'far-right'. This is a source of controversy for me. Facism (in my view) does nothing to embrace classic liberal democracy or capitalism and has as its focus the state. Nazis had their origins in German worker parties. The BNP in the UK recruit more from working class neighbourhoods that tended to vote Labour (leftwing, at least in name). Fascism requires that its adherents trade individual concern for the concern of the state/racial group. This is obviously at odds with what I defined as rightwing/conservative thought.
In America this is made worse by the alliance between 'social conservatives' and conservatives (in the classic political sense). I would argue that the former group is actually more to the left than perhaps they would like to admit. They seek to regulate individual behaviour for the good of society. Often this will be rooted in religion, but not necessarily. So where increasing votes was the primary motivator for this alliance, it has now meshed with traditional secular conservatism and produced almost schitzophrenic rhetoric from some GOPers (who are the designated 'conservatives' in the US).
It is sad in fact. Because America was founded on ideals that people should be free to be who they want. This falls deeply within rightwing territory. The government was set-up with a severe separation of powers and a Constitution that limited the federal government.
END OF PART I
| 126 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:43:58am |
re: #119 redc1c4
Ok. Some part of him was blown off and sank. I saw it forty years ago and I can't remember last Tuesday!
///
| 127 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:43:59am |
re: #120 iceweasel
Horror/sci-fi are genres which are rarely given any respect
Around here they are! And I enjoy all the heavy and not-so-heavy-handed symbolism. What I don't like are the modern day gorefests.
| 128 |
redc1c4 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:46:38am |
LoL free FRUITCUP!!!
tide you over 'til she drags herself in...
tell her i said 'high!'
/white smoke
| 129 |
SixDegrees Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:46:50am |
re: #121 ArchangelMichael
Even as a prequel, I have mixed feelings about this.
I've heard a rumor that there will be some "reimagining" involved as well. Particularly when it comes to the fate of the Krell and the function, or method of function, of the The Great Machine.
My expectations, frankly, are very low. A similar "reimagining" of The Day the Earth Stood Still turned that film into a laughingstock. Likewise so many other recent do-overs that never should have been made, like The Time Machine and the three most recent Star Wars abominations.
| 130 |
HypnoToad Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:47:31am |
re: #117 redc1c4
the fires sure as hell will... the view from Altadena...
You have a scary view there! I can't see any light from the fires from here in LaVerne. I have clear air here, but the smoke just to the north is blocking everything.
| 131 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:48:46am |
re: #128 redc1c4
You think LoL is a no-show again tonight? Hope she's enjoying her time off while we all raid the cupboard for stale Top Ramen and whatnot.
| 132 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:50:35am |
re: #129 SixDegrees
Suffice to say, just about any remake in recent memory blew mule, whether it was horror, sci-fi, a Western, a love story, a comedy...
| 133 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:50:40am |
re: #120 iceweasel
Crap, I hate to agree with you but you are right. many movies were portraying the anxiety of that era. I don't know if it is available on dvd, but watch Panic in the year zero. I intend to.
| 134 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:51:00am |
re: #127 theheat
Around here they are! And I enjoy all the heavy and not-so-heavy-handed symbolism. What I don't like are the modern day gorefests.
Oh I know people here would give them respect...I was thinking of the larger 'critical community'. They tend to slag off movies and books in either genre, or treat them as fluff. I think they're very revealing and very good, myself.
As for the modern day gorefests, there is no denying that there are many movies that are nothing but gore, totally prurient, awful.
I'd still argue that many of them say something else. The rise of the slasher flick in the 70's coincided with the availabilty of abortion, and the woman's movement. It isn't a coincidence that this is wehn we saw the birth (heh) of a genre that involved gruesome killings of teenage girls in sexual situations.
Similarly, in the 50's when people were worried about gangs and juvenile delinquents and we basically created the concept of a 'teenager' as we know it now, we saw all these movies about "I was a Teenage X". It's about both the internal anxieties of any adolescent and also the external societial fears of them and what they might do.
| 135 |
HypnoToad Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:51:02am |
re: #131 theheat
Go for the good stuff. Rice-A-Roni and swedish meatballs from IKEA. Real Bachelor Chow...Now with Flavor
| 136 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:51:50am |
re: #128 redc1c4
I imagine there's plenty of white smoke in your AO right now...
Take care, red...thanks for the fruitcup and stay smoke-free (and flame-free)...
| 137 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:53:53am |
So, what do you think McCain would have done differently by now?
Let the banks fail? Let the auto industry fail? Told the unemployed to get a job? Told the uninsured to stop whining? Punched Chavez in the mouth? Told Palestine to get over it? Bombed Iran?
I see a lot of Republicans knocking the decisions Obama has made, but I don't see them making suggestions on what McCain, or they themselves, would have done.
It's easy to say 'screw the banks', but what happens when YOUR bank goes out of business due to a cascade failure? It's easy to say 'screw the auto manufacturers', but what do you do about the tens of thousands they employed and the hundreds of thousands employed by businesses which make parts and materials for them?
It's easy to say 'your health isn't my problem', but how does one ignore what the health care 'industry' is costing taxpayers, in money and in lives, every year?
It's easy to say 'Ignore Chavez', but do we really want another 12 year old president? It's easy to say 'It is all the Palestinians fault', but is that intellectually honest? It's easy to say 'bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran!', but do we really want another war?
It's easy to knock the President, especially if you don't agree with his political persuasion in general, and his goals in particular, but no so easy to fill his shoes.
I find it entirely against the grain of American politics to be so against the President from day one as has been the case with Obama, and which was in no way the case with Bush.
Bush was given a chance. He was even given the benefit of doubt. In return he took his eyes off the ball in Afghanistan to 'finish' daddy's little war in Iraq.
It is said that the Iraq war will, in the end, cost America $3 trillion dollars (WaPo Article). But let's say they're wrong. lets say it just (just!) costs 1/3 of that. That 1/3, $1 trillion, would provide health care to every American for the next 10 years. That's $1 trillion over 10 years, $100 billion a year, when we are currently spending about $20 billion a MONTH in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Is that still too much for you? Okay then, how about $2.5 trillion, 17.6% of the GDP? That is what we will pay THIS YEAR ALONE for health care! Health care which only covers about 4/5 of the population, denies coverage to those who have paid into it for years by dropping people when they become 'fiscal risks', lose their job or move jobs, and skims 20%-30% off the top.
Or how about $4.4 trillion? What we will be paying EACH YEAR in 10 years.
Judging is easy and inaction simple, but neither solve the very real issues we are facing. It's easy to say 'I have a job, so I'm not concerned about my financial security or health care'. It's easy to say 'wars don't have anything to do with me'. But most of all it's easy to say 'that liberal, that DemocRAT, is doing it wrong!', but does any of this move us forward as a nation, united?
If you want to 'take back' your country then go ahead! Take it back from the United Healths and take it back from the Haliburtons and the Blackwaters. Take it back from the credit industry and the corporate interests.
But most of all, take it back from the Glen Becks of this world and while you're at it, take back your mind and your integrity.
| 138 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:54:20am |
re: #134 iceweasel
Like art, it mirrors the current state of mind. I studied art history for several years, and anything that's ever happened is reflected in art. Film being a form of art, of course.
Oddly enough, for being a student of art history, I can't remember most things that matter in the real world. Like where I put my glasses, etc.
| 139 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:55:13am |
re: #135 HypnoToad
I had the meatballs from IKEA a few years ago. Ate until I was sick, I think. They're quite good. Who'da thunk it.
| 140 |
ArchangelMichael Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:57:42am |
re: #129 SixDegrees
If and when it comes out, I'll probably go see it, but I will have my defenses up and my expectations down.
I'll agree with you on the original being flawless. It was in every way. Except for the claim that it takes us until 2100 to get to the Moon, and...
Here's my astrogeek coming out: Altair is a A7V main sequence star. Very bright, hot, and as a M.S. star 2 spectral types higher than our sun, it is much younger. (The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long) It wouldn't be very likely that a species could evolve, rise to an ultimate in technological evolution, and then be extinct for millions of years on a planet around that star.
They should have picked Delta Pavonis. It's a G-type star like ours that is just beginning to move off of the Main Sequence on its way to turning into a red giant. It's a couple billion years older than the Sun and a better candidate for the home of an ancient extinct civilization.
I don't let this fact bother me too much while watching it though.
| 141 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:58:54am |
re: #134 iceweasel
"The rise of the slasher flick in the 70's coincided with the availabilty of abortion, and the woman's movement. It isn't a coincidence that this is wehn we saw the birth (heh) of a genre that involved gruesome killings of teenage girls in sexual situations."
Ice, on this point you are reaching.The slasher flicks was well under with Sam peckinpah's violent movies. I can't believe the Texas chainsaw massacre was inspired by Roe v. Wade.
| 142 |
ArchangelMichael Mon, Aug 31, 2009 1:59:55am |
re: #141 BatGuano
"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
| 143 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:01:27am |
Morning all- fruitcup...buffet...eat...now...you know the drill.
| 144 |
HypnoToad Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:01:46am |
re: #140 ArchangelMichael
Altair is also a very fast rotator. Probably not much of a planetary system to soak up the angular momentum. However, its easy to point out to people at star parties as the "Forbidden Planet" star.
| 146 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:02:15am |
Greetings lizards, and thanks for the fill-in Fenway. I take it lol is still among the awol?
| 147 |
SixDegrees Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:03:50am |
re: #141 BatGuano
"The rise of the slasher flick in the 70's coincided with the availabilty of abortion, and the woman's movement. It isn't a coincidence that this is wehn we saw the birth (heh) of a genre that involved gruesome killings of teenage girls in sexual situations."
Ice, on this point you are reaching.The slasher flicks was well under with Sam peckinpah's violent movies. I can't believe the Texas chainsaw massacre was inspired by Roe v. Wade.
Agree. If anything, I always saw the Halloween and Friday the 13th idiom of promiscuous teenagers getting hacked to bits as more of a screed against venereal disease than anything else. Maybe unwanted pregnancy. But I never got any abortion innuendos out of any of them. Not to mention that the audience aimed at - teenagers - mostly didn't know jack about sex and, like all things mysterious, viewed it as at least somewhat frightening simply because it was unknown.
| 148 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:04:09am |
re: #137 Diego
I had to upding you for that. Not because I agree completely, but you made a good case.
Really, I'm too tired to be very serious at the moment, but I agree that I doubt McCain would have done much differently under the circumstances. For that matter, any new president inheriting the situation Obama did, would probably do the same.
McCain probably would not have pledged the billions upon billions (trillions) Obama has, but no one can say for sure how many fewer billions he would have pledged, under the circumstances. I firmly believe, given the failure of so many large-scale corporations and institutions, he would have been compelled to designate "a whole lotta money we aint' got" to all these dire causes. Where he would have put on the brakes, one can only speculate. I am pretty sure, almost positive, there would not be this push for the type of health care that Obama is pitching.
The rest, I pretty much agree with, 'cept for splitting hairs. And I'm too tired to split hairs. Ultimately, the voracity and oblivious spending of Obama is frightening and cannot be sustained realistically.
| 149 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:06:32am |
re: #143 Fenway_Nation
/Thank you littleoldFenway, it's exactly the same! (sotto voce: wanker).
| 150 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:06:59am |
re: #144 HypnoToad
Earlier this evening I ran across this little treatise explaining just how we can see these distant orbs.
| 151 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:08:05am |
re: #148 theheat
McCain wouldn't have embarked on apology-palooza 2009, for starters.
So I'm supposed to believe that we're all better off as Americans because the man the Hugo Chavez, Robert Mugabe and Fidel Castro wanted to win is now in the White House.
Sorry- that dog won't hunt.
| 152 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:09:37am |
re: #147 SixDegrees
I have to agree, more of a cautionary tale about promiscuous sex, brought about by the so-called sexual revolution of the late, late 50's - early 60's (moreso). The pill, of course, helped immensely to bring this about. Combine that with the 50's and 60's screen sirens (Monroe, Mansfield, Bardot), and the experimental drug use, and you have a lot of horny teenagers getting all kinds of signals.
But, hey, you do the nasty at summer camp, some guy in a mask is going to get you...
| 153 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:10:05am |
re: #148 theheat
there would not be this push for the type of health care that Obama is pitching
But then, what is he pushing for? He's pushing for fair rules for those who are insured and an insurance program for those who can't access health insurance presently.
How is that a big deal, or not in the interest of anyone not running an insurance company?
| 154 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:11:36am |
re: #151 Fenway_Nation
No, I'm absolutely not saying that. But I'm agreeing with Diego that I don't believe McCain would be the tough guy, either. He wouldn't fold like a goddamned lawn chair like Obama, but I don't see him being the man to throw down the gauntlet. Not by a long stretch.
| 155 |
Walahi Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:12:50am |
PART II
So today your average American conservative is characterized as a rural-dwelling, gun owning, racist, xenophobic, religious fanatic with low intelligence. The GOP is portrayed as being full of people uneducated about issues and is easily manipulated by Fox News.
Sadly, I think that this may not be too far off the mark for a certain very small part of the Republican base. I agree that media has blown it out of proportion and that people like Glenn Beck do nothing but add ammunition to the media arsenal. However, I think the 'big tent' needs to re-establish its grounding and what it seeks to implement. Right now it looks only like 'be anti-Democrat' which is not a good long term policy.
Another issue is the grouping of conservatives. Unfortunately, if your political ideology rests on individual responsibility, it might be hard to get diverse personae together with one voice. It may even be paradoxical because how does one get individuals to speak with one voice? At any rate, conservatives need to find that foundation to stand on or else the media will focus on the blooper reel that has become Republican protest to Obama.
I will concede to the left that they are far more organized than conservatives. They have media sympathies and have largely discredited conservatives by establishing the caricature of conservatives described above.
So where does this leave us? Well conservatives have many groups to overcome, not simply the leftwing as a whole. First there is the anti-Democrats. These vote Republican only because they hate Democrats. While that might seem like a good ally, consider the amount of racist fringe groups and ODSers that would populate such a group. Conservatism does not need them.
The next is overt relgious pandering. I am politically secular, but that does not mean I am not religious. It just means that there is no scope for religion in politics. Unfortunately the embodiment of supposed conservatism in the US, the GOP relies heavily on religious voters (never does anything for them, but does use the rhetoric during campaign season). That needs to stop.
I think that would be a good start and would actually attract more people to the GOP than the current ODS and Beckism that seems to pollute the media (new and old).
tl;dr - Conservatism needs to redefine itself and actually mean something other than anti-Democrat.
| 156 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:14:49am |
re: #151 Fenway_Nation
So I'm supposed to believe that we're all better off as Americans because the man the Hugo Chavez, Robert Mugabe and Fidel Castro wanted to win is now in the White House.
So suddenly you care about the opinions of, and base you political decisions on, the assholes of the world?? You mean to tell me Obama could have saved $100's of millions and years of campaigning simply by paying Chavez, Mugabe and Castro to endorse McCain?
Damn, if only he'd known..
| 157 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:16:08am |
re: #153 Diego
Well, I think that's not completely honest. First, that's assuming that it's the government's job to right all the perceived wrongs and level the playing field.
Government thinks you're making too much money? Take it. Government thinks you don't run your business up to snuff? Take it over. In such case, there is no intermediary step, such as reform, or even regulations, that are voted upon.
That's not even democratic.
| 158 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:17:23am |
re: #157 theheat
So then, what would you have done?
And what would you do about the health care issue?
| 159 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:17:49am |
re: #156 Diego
Are you really that stupid, or do you just think your being cute?
The people who unambiguously hate the United States of America were glad that 0bama won the election.
Sugarcoat that, sombrero de culo...
| 160 |
SixDegrees Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:17:52am |
re: #155 Walahi
Return to Goldwater-brand Conservatism - focus on smaller, less intrusive government and all that flows from that, including an emphasis on self-sufficiency (at both the national and individual level), lower taxes, the elimination of deficit spending except in times of dire national emergency. And a rejection of the Religious Right's quest to establish an American theocracy, grounded once again on the principle of a government that stays the hell out of people's personal lives to the largest extent possible.
| 161 |
Walahi Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:18:58am |
re: #154 theheat
I dunno about reading into it that much...
Couples go on dates to movies. Scary movies provide the impetus for being closer and holding each other at the 'scary moments'. The sex is there to provide visual stimulus to keep the mind 'focused'. Great date movie all in all. Therefore be prepared for a deluge of horny guys taking their dates to scary movies. Most 'horror' films, like Nightmare on Elm Street, Halloween and Friday the 13th are just date movies if I am being honest.
But thats just my opinion.
| 162 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:19:37am |
re: #147 SixDegrees
Agree. If anything, I always saw the Halloween and Friday the 13th idiom of promiscuous teenagers getting hacked to bits as more of a screed against venereal disease than anything else. Maybe unwanted pregnancy. But I never got any abortion innuendos out of any of them. Not to mention that the audience aimed at - teenagers - mostly didn't know jack about sex and, like all things mysterious, viewed it as at least somewhat frightening simply because it was unknown.
No no-- I'm merely pointing out that abortion became legal in 73. That is certainly tied to a general cultural unease about female sexuality, exacerbated by the women's movement.
None of those films are about abortion-- but access to safe and legal abortion certainly was a huge societal deal.
| 163 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:20:19am |
re: #158 Diego
Clearly cramming 1200+ pages of legislation through both houses with anybody fucking reading it is the way to go.
And since the stimulus they authored did such a bang-up job of preventing unemployment numbers hitting above 8%, why not let these same MENSA candidates rake a crack at healthcare?
/
| 164 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:20:30am |
re: #159 Fenway_Nation
I'm neither stupid nor cute. it was you who stated a basis of disliking Obama on the opinions of those without love or understanding of this country as if we should run our political systems by their words.
Chavez likes him? Can't be president! No sir! No way! It's teh evel, make it teh stop!
| 165 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:20:49am |
re: #142 ArchangelMichael
But mostly a cigar is a phallus, according to I'm smarter than you are. She's hilarious!
| 166 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:21:23am |
re: #159 Fenway_Nation
The people who unambiguously hate the United States of America were glad that 0bama won the election..
What? Downding Fenway. That sounded like you were saying that everyone who supported Obama, in the US or overseas, hates America.
Maybe you didn't mean it that way. I'm multi-tasking.
| 167 |
ArchangelMichael Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:23:10am |
re: #165 BatGuano
But mostly a cigar is a phallus, according to I'm smarter than you are. She's hilarious!
George Carlin also said "Sometimes it's a big brown dick!"
| 168 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:24:23am |
re: #158 Diego
In a perfect world, as a female, I'd tell Hugo Chavez to suck my dick, and give him and every other anti-American dictator my manicured middle finger. And then I'd smile, and curtsy, and bat my eyelashes. And with that out of the way...
I'd get input from doctors, insurance companies, and legal citizens of the country about what they want, what they hate, what they fear, and what is reasonable, and from there I might consider some type of affordable catastrophic (cancer, heart attack, etc.) insurance policy to cover the uninsured. And this may not even be a government-only option, but a minimalist policy the insurance companies themselves adopted. It may be by bid, like a government contract. And, it may not even be FREE.
| 169 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:25:29am |
You got to go back to how the HELL did McCain get nominated in the first place with only 4 sates' primaries completed. McCain was at the absolute bottom of my list. I believe any of the others could have been successful.
I would never in the world have believed that a Marxist community organizer with absolutely no actual executive experience could be elected as President of the United States. It happened by the opposition picking their opponent and then riding in on the wave of economic downturn engineered and orchestrated by the community organizer himself.
He promised free money for everybody, except of course that five percent that was going to pay for it all. I just have to ask this one question. How is it working out for you so far?
| 170 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:25:29am |
re: #163 Fenway_Nation
Clearly cramming 1200+ pages of legislation through both houses with anybody fucking reading it is the way to go.
Sooo, the Republicans who have stated that they will not read any health care bill and will just vote against? What do you think of them?
And since the stimulus they authored did such a bang-up job of preventing unemployment numbers hitting above 8%, why not let these same MENSA candidates rake a crack at healthcare?
Oh, right. The Job Fairy!
When you effect great changes in the financial markets and in industry millions of jobs should appear over night or you have failed.
I forgot that the 2 year program was slated for instant results. My bad.
/attempt at cute
| 171 |
ArchangelMichael Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:25:49am |
re: #166 iceweasel
What? Downding Fenway. That sounded like you were saying that everyone who supported Obama, in the US or overseas, hates America.
Maybe you didn't mean it that way. I'm multi-tasking.
Modus ponens not modus tollens.
Not everyone overseas who supported Obama hates America, but based on what they have said, everyone who hates America and offered an opinion, supported Obama gleefully.
| 172 |
ArchangelMichael Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:27:58am |
re: #171 ArchangelMichael
If I have my logical argument forms mixed up there, cut me slack it's late and I'm dead tired but the heat is keeping me up.
| 173 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:28:40am |
re: #170 Diego
Health insurance is the problem, not the solution. Why, except in a Marxist world, would you expect someone else to pay your legitimate bills? The bottom line effect is, as you add more parasites into the payment stream, you get higher prices. Then you have to get Mother Government involved because the prices are so very high and then you have infinite parasitic involvement and not only are the taxes spiraling out of control but the quality and quantity of delivered product is headed downhill fast.
| 174 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:29:39am |
re: #164 Diego
re: #166 iceweasel
No...just stupid, Diego. Where the fuck did I say 'We should base all of our policy decisions on what so-and-so says?'...
I said it on November 5th, 2008 and I'll say it again...it's awfully telling that despots and thugs like Nasrallah, Chavez, Assad, Mugabe or Morales openly stated they were glad to see 0bama win the election.
| 175 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:30:24am |
re: #152 theheat
I have to agree, more of a cautionary tale about promiscuous sex, brought about by the so-called sexual revolution of the late, late 50's - early 60's (moreso). The pill, of course, helped immensely to bring this about. Combine that with the 50's and 60's screen sirens (Monroe, Mansfield, Bardot), and the experimental drug use, and you have a lot of horny teenagers getting all kinds of signals.
But, hey, you do the nasty at summer camp, some guy in a mask is going to get you...
Exactly, I'm just pointing out that the legalisation of abortion in 73 would have severely increased anxieties about 'promiscuous sex'. hence the slasher films of the 70's.
Add to it the televisation of Vietnam. Graphic images brought into people's livingrooms. The bar for the kind of violence that can be shown onscreen radically changed.
| 176 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:31:53am |
re: #170 Diego
Oh...right I forgot. Cap and trade was all about 'Job Jobs Jobs'.
Pelosi said so herself on the House floor.
| 177 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:33:33am |
re: #176 Fenway_Nation
Notice how jobs isn't talked about as being the priority so much, like back in January? Jobs is another four letter word, at the moment; a distraction.
| 178 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:34:36am |
re: #172 ArchangelMichael
If I have my logical argument forms mixed up there, cut me slack it's late and I'm dead tired but the heat is keeping me up.
Here you go. Slack. As much as you need. ;-)
| 179 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:35:07am |
re: #175 iceweasel
Well, ice, I think we're close, but I don't know about the a-word being as much of a factor as general rampant promiscuity. But, hey, it's okay.
| 180 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:35:27am |
re: #177 theheat
I'll go one better, heat.
Notice how every time 0bama is slipping in the polls, someone in the Administration or MSM will run a story or do an investigation into how horrible we had it during the Bush Administration.
| 181 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:35:33am |
re: #171 ArchangelMichael
Modus ponens not modus tollens.
Not everyone overseas who supported Obama hates America, but based on what they have said, everyone who hates America and offered an opinion, supported Obama gleefully.
No, everyone who hated BUSH overseas supported Obama. And Bush is not America.
You do know that Osama and others wanted McCain to win, right? Because Bush and his policies were the best possible recruiting tool for them?
Here is Osama denouncing Obama in June 2009
| 182 |
freetoken Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:36:30am |
re: #160 SixDegrees
Return to Goldwater-brand Conservatism - focus on smaller, less intrusive government and all that flows from that, including an emphasis on self-sufficiency (at both the national and individual level), lower taxes, the elimination of deficit spending except in times of dire national emergency.
I believe it is highly likely that none of those are possible.
| 183 |
SixDegrees Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:36:45am |
re: #175 iceweasel
Exactly, I'm just pointing out that the legalisation of abortion in 73 would have severely increased anxieties about 'promiscuous sex'. hence the slasher films of the 70's.
Add to it the televisation of Vietnam. Graphic images brought into people's livingrooms. The bar for the kind of violence that can be shown onscreen radically changed.
It seems to me that the ready availability of abortion would have exactly the opposite effect - promiscuous, premarital sex was changed from a lifelong problem to a problem that could be solved for a couple hundred bucks. Or avoided altogether with the newly available birth control pill.
Still seems to me that the metaphor, if any, is with venereal disease - which among other things rapidly spreads to all of the friends you're sleeping with, just like Micheal Meyer or Jason does.
| 184 |
freetoken Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:37:31am |
re: #169 UncleRancher
It happened by the opposition picking their opponent and then riding in on the wave of economic downturn engineered and orchestrated by the community organizer himself.
???
| 185 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:37:54am |
re: #175 iceweasel
OK glacies...what's your socioeconomic rationale behind the ultra-snuff-tastic films like Hostel, Saw, Wrong Turn, The Hills Have Eyes remake or The Collector over the last couple of years?
| 186 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:38:17am |
re: #180 Fenway_Nation
No!
//
kidding.
Truthfully, I resent the bait-and-switch distraction as much as Bush throwing terror around. As long as we were scared of the boogyman, The Wizard was there, protecting us.
Not that there wasn't a threat, of course, but I believe Bush wrung it out for all it was worth, and then some.
Did you read what Tom Ridge said last week?
| 187 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:41:11am |
re: #181 iceweasel
Whereas investigating and prosecuting CIA interrogators is an effective counterterrorism strategy.
| 188 |
SixDegrees Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:41:27am |
re: #182 freetoken
I believe it is highly likely that none of those are possible.
They're worthy goals. And I believe they would resonate with a very large portion of the country, including independents and moderates of all stripes. At the moment, it's just these people who are staring at the deficit projections just released by the White House and backing away from health care reform on the grounds that it is simply unsustainable. There's lots of fruit ripe for picking if Conservatives simply return to a core platform of fiscal responsibility.
| 189 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:41:37am |
re: #185 Fenway_Nation
OK glacies...what's your socioeconomic rationale behind the ultra-snuff-tastic films like Hostel, Saw, Wrong Turn, The Hills Have Eyes remake or The Collector over the last couple of years?
I do have a rationale, beloved Fenway -- I'm on the phone at the moment, -- if you don't mind waiting a bit I'll type it out soon.
(if you have to go to bed we can continue this on the next overnight, i'd love to)
Back asap
| 190 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:41:46am |
re: #185 Fenway_Nation
That's easy. A lack of new ideas, all kinds of technical advances in special effects, and pushing things past the limits of anything socially acceptable due to lack of censorship. Like shock jocks, 'cept in a horror setting.
Notice, after Saw, everything went in that direction. Seriously. I found it completely tasteless, to the point of excruciating.
| 191 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:43:59am |
re: #184 freetoken
???
That comes from involvement in ACORN activities to force banks to make home mortgage loans to people who could never qualify under the rules of reasonableness that existed at the time. This produced a flood of toxic mortgage assets that were absorbed by fannie mae and freedie mac eventually triggering the biggest economic downturn since 1929.
| 192 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:44:35am |
Has everyonere: #185 Fenway_Nation
OK glacies...what's your socioeconomic rationale behind the ultra-snuff-tastic films like Hostel, Saw, Wrong Turn, The Hills Have Eyes remake or The Collector over the last couple of years?
Has everyone seen original The Hills Have Eyes?
| 193 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:44:47am |
re: #168 theheat
In a perfect world, as a female, I'd tell Hugo Chavez to suck my dick, and give him and every other anti-American dictator my manicured middle finger. And then I'd smile, and curtsy, and bat my eyelashes. And with that out of the way...
And so kiss goodbye the 2nd largest source of US oil imports and drive the price of petrol through the roof, efecting every business and citizen of America. Good move!
I'd get input from doctors, insurance companies, and legal citizens of the country about what they want, what they hate, what they fear, and what is reasonable,
Obama has done this, both with consultations with the industry and a general election he won by a land-slide.
and from there I might consider some type of affordable catastrophic (cancer, heart attack, etc.) insurance policy to cover the uninsured.
And not address the pre-emptive care which costs less and will help reduce catastrofic illness?
And this may not even be a government-only option, but a minimalist policy the insurance companies themselves adopted.
As they could have done for the last 60 years, and didn't?
It may be by bid, like a government contract.
Welcome to the Haliburton/Blackwater Clinic! Yay!
And, it may not even be FREE.
The 'public option' isn't free. People pay for it just as they do any other insurance program, except that they can't get any other insurance program because they once stubbed their toe when they were two..
Really, just looking for fair here. The 'system' is not currently workable, or equitable.
| 194 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:45:03am |
re: #190 theheat
I hope that you didn't pre-empt iceweasel's rationale...
| 195 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:48:12am |
I've been off the computer for 4 days. Anything new?
| 196 |
ArchangelMichael Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:48:37am |
re: #181 iceweasel
I'm pretty sure that is a sound-a-like. I'd be willing to bet good money that the latest that Osama bin Laden was alive was 2004, and even that video might have been fake.
I don't care about the political opinions of a corpse. I'm not a democrat pollster from Chicago.
| 197 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:48:59am |
re: #193 Diego
Oh...I'm sorry- is it still the Bush presidency where I'm supposed to check under my bed for boogeymen Halliburton and Blackwater operatives? I thought for sure we were in the era of hopey-changey rainbow farting unicorns to keep the big bad enegy exploration firms away...
| 198 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:49:11am |
re: #195 Cannadian Club Akbar
I've been off the computer for 4 days. Anything new?
Looks to me like pretty much the same old stuff.
| 200 |
SixDegrees Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:49:46am |
re: #193 Diego
And so kiss goodbye the 2nd largest source of US oil imports and drive the price of petrol through the roof, efecting every business and citizen of America. Good move!
Uh - oil is sold on the world market. If Venezuela decides to ship it's oil elsewhere, it's still being sold and still contributing to overall pricing and supply. Venezuela may not want to sell oil to the United States, but it still has to sell that oil somewhere; in fact, much of it would simply wind up in the US anyway through the secondary market. But the point is that the only way to do what you're suggesting is for Venezuela to stop producing oil in the first place, which would have a much more severe impact on Venezuela than on the US or world markets. See "Commodity" for more information.
| 201 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:50:34am |
| 202 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:51:43am |
re: #201 Cannadian Club Akbar
Still? What about Michael Jackson?
Yep, he's still dead too, but now of course it is murder.
| 203 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:51:58am |
re: #173 UncleRancher
Health insurance is the problem, not the solution. Why, except in a Marxist world, would you expect someone else to pay your legitimate bills? The bottom line effect is, as you add more parasites into the payment stream, you get higher prices. Then you have to get Mother Government involved because the prices are so very high and then you have infinite parasitic involvement and not only are the taxes spiraling out of control but the quality and quantity of delivered product is headed downhill fast.
I think you have your wires crossed.
Parasites? Would those be 'the poor'? They're already covered. It's called Medicaid. The public option isn't for them, it's for the 'working poor' and those who the 'insurance industry' refuses now. And they pay for it, not the government.
The Republicans offer $5000 per family. All families. No matter how McCain you are. And against what? $12,500 a year to cover a family of 4? how do they pay the rest and what do they do when they are denied?
Oh, and those 'parasites'? Guess what? You're already paying for them, just at a MUCH higher cost than if they simply had access to insurance. What a win!
| 204 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:52:46am |
re: #200 SixDegrees
Uh - oil is sold on the world market. If Venezuela decides to ship it's oil elsewhere, it's still being sold and still contributing to overall pricing and supply. Venezuela may not want to sell oil to the United States, but it still has to sell that oil somewhere; in fact, much of it would simply wind up in the US anyway through the secondary market. But the point is that the only way to do what you're suggesting is for Venezuela to stop producing oil in the first place, which would have a much more severe impact on Venezuela than on the US or world markets. See "Commodity" for more information.
Just look up the word BROKE.
| 205 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:53:11am |
re: #193 Diego
What would you rather, I blow them? Effectively, that's what every POTUS has done. I figure, better to cut the apron strings and go it alone, change/develop energy sources at home, and form new partnerships, than keep shooting ourselves in the foot pandering to assholes.
In re healthcare - you're making an argument for socialism. I can agree with the points of the problem, but not the solution. In real life, I'm a self-employed capitalist, and have been for years. I've seen the government at work, and there's no reason to think Obama is less of a bureaucrat, and more efficient. None. (Cash for Clunkers, anyone?) Therefore, I don't believe in decimating insurance companies to provide a nanny state.
| 206 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:53:54am |
re: #194 Fenway_Nation
No, I'm giving ice a five shot espresso, wind him up, and watch him run with this one ;-)
| 208 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:55:25am |
re: #201 Cannadian Club Akbar
According to the latest press release MJ is still dead; Along with Generalissimo Francisco Franco.
| 209 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:55:44am |
re: #203 Diego
I think you have your wires crossed.
Parasites? Would those be 'the poor'? They're already covered. It's called Medicaid. The public option isn't for them, it's for the 'working poor' and those who the 'insurance industry' refuses now. And they pay for it, not the government.
The Republicans offer $5000 per family. All families. No matter how McCain you are. And against what? $12,500 a year to cover a family of 4? how do they pay the rest and what do they do when they are denied?
Oh, and those 'parasites'? Guess what? You're already paying for them, just at a MUCH higher cost than if they simply had access to insurance. What a win!
Parasites in the payment stream are all those who get paid without actually producing any goods or services. That includes all the buildings full of paper pushers and their double comma executives, all the extras in the MD offices that just push paper around so they can get paid, and then there are the lawyers and the 200,000 a year medical malpractice policies that every MD has to buy for protection against the lawyers. Parasites. They produce no goods or services.
| 210 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:56:13am |
re: #207 Cannadian Club Akbar
Danke! My apologies, ice. So am I.
| 212 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:57:52am |
| 213 |
ArchangelMichael Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:59:00am |
| 214 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:59:35am |
re: #205 theheat
What would you rather, I blow them? Effectively, that's what every POTUS has done. I figure, better to cut the apron strings and go it alone, change/develop energy sources at home, and form new partnerships, than keep shooting ourselves in the foot pandering to assholes.
So those are the choices? They suck your imaginary dick or you suck theirs? Can't you just shake hands and walk away and have nothing more to do with them than you absolutely have to?
In re healthcare - you're making an argument for socialism. I can agree with the points of the problem, but not the solution. In real life, I'm a self-employed capitalist, and have been for years. I've seen the government at work, and there's no reason to think Obama is less of a bureaucrat, and more efficient. None. (Cash for Clunkers, anyone?) Therefore, I don't believe in decimating insurance companies to provide a nanny state.
Oh noes! SOCIALISM IS STEALING MY BABIES!
Let's see, Medicare, check. Social Security, check. Socialism taking over the country, damn! And we were SO close too..
Look, no one is talking about a free lunch here. Those who can't get insurance will be able to and those with it will be treated better by the insurance industry. Bottom line.
It's not about changing the country to socialism, it's about making health care work for everyone.
Self-employed? How big is your family and how much does your insurance cost? Can you quadruple your income in the next 4 years? Because that is what, at a minimum, is going to happen to your health care costs while you pay for those who are denied access to insurance now.
Is that a win for you?
| 215 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:00:16am |
| 216 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:00:35am |
re: #212 Cannadian Club Akbar
Leave my ex wife out of this!
/
| 217 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:02:35am |
re: #192 BatGuano
Has everyone
Has everyone seen original The Hills Have Eyes?
Bat-- I have, and I think it's far more terrifying than the remake. And gruesome.
(BTW, still on phone folks, not ignoring anyone, will be back)
| 218 |
freetoken Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:04:03am |
re: #209 UncleRancher
Down-dinged for your especially dismissive (as well as self contradictory) attitude towards people whom you claim aren't providing a "service".
| 219 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:05:28am |
re: #214 Diego
Oh my. Where to start? Today I can fire my health insurance company by just picking up the phone and getting a quote from another. It's that easy. If I don't like their prices or their services I can do that. Now what happens after the government takes over, and I am forced to buy their product or pay a fine that costs even more? Can I still pick up the phone and fire them, and go find a better deal? It's free enterprise v. communism. All your choices go out the window.
Sorry no sale.
| 220 |
The Other Les Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:07:08am |
The webcomic GONE WITH THE BLASTWAVE is gone.
| 221 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:07:19am |
Anyone that thinks the gubment can run health care has never been to the DMV.
| 222 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:07:38am |
re: #214 Diego
Look, no one is talking about a free lunch here. Those who can't get insurance will be able to and those with it will be treated better by the insurance industry.
How, pray tell, is this going to magically manifest? Seriously.
It's not about changing the country to socialism, it's about making health care work for everyone.
Again, details, other than ideology? This is but a supermagical concept, with no working plan that goes from step A through Z.
Self-employed? How big is your family and how much does your insurance cost? Can you quadruple your income in the next 4 years? Because that is what, at a minimum, is going to happen to your health care costs while you pay for those who are denied access to insurance now.
Now who's guilty of the boogyman under the bed? Honestly, you believe if Obama's healthy care non-plan of a plan doesn't happen, my rates will increase four times what they are? Frankly, I'm tired of being scared into shit. I'm not biting.
| 223 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:10:11am |
re: #219 UncleRancher
Gee, if I'd copied-and-pasted, that would have saved me from a whole lotta typing.
I agree. You just said it better.
| 224 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:11:28am |
re: #218 freetoken
Down-dinged for your especially dismissive (as well as self contradictory) attitude towards people whom you claim aren't providing a "service".
Oh my.
I'm so sorry I have offended your sensibilities, I am strictly talking about the economics of the thing. The economics don't make sense. Medicine did not get to be one sixth of the economy because of medicine. It got that way because of the extra expenses added by companies that have inserted themselves into the payment stream, between those who receive payments for actual goods and services, and those who cough up the money for the goods and services. If medical insurance is such a good thing why don't we have food insurance? We need food almost every day. It's much more vital than being able to see some doctor.
I don't down-ding.
| 225 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:13:39am |
re: #223 theheat
Gee, if I'd copied-and-pasted, that would have saved me from a whole lotta typing.
I agree. You just said it better.
Thanks. :-)
| 226 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:13:48am |
re: #224 UncleRancher
You forgot to mention lawyers.
| 227 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:14:15am |
re: #219 UncleRancher
Oh my. Where to start? Today I can fire my health insurance company by just picking up the phone and getting a quote from another. It's that easy. If I don't like their prices or their services I can do that.
So, you've never been sick and don't care about anyone who has. good for you. Congrats, I'm glad 'the system' is working for you. It's not working for millions of others, but who cares about them?
Now what happens after the government takes over
Takes over what, exactly?
and I am forced to buy their product or pay a fine that costs even more?
Force? A fine? You have insurance! You actually think someone will force you to drop that insurance??
Can I still pick up the phone and fire them, and go find a better deal?
Yes. What do you think would stop you?
It's free enterprise v. communism. All your choices go out the window.Sorry no sale.
LOL @ 'communism'. Oh aye, giving those who can't currently be insured options is communism.
I'm sorry, but you do not appear to be deeply informed on the debate, and you seem to prefer hyperbole to discourse.
| 228 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:14:50am |
re: #226 Cannadian Club Akbar
You forgot to mention lawyers.
I actually covered that part earlier. Didn't want to appear repetitive.
Thanks :-)
| 229 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:16:18am |
re: #227 Diego
Should I pay if I don't want gubment health care?
| 230 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:18:10am |
re: #229 Cannadian Club Akbar
You should pay if you choose the option or not, unless you're actually poor.
You make it sound like all insurance will be banned. That is an uninformed position.
| 231 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:19:24am |
re: #229 Cannadian Club Akbar
That can easily be solved by adding a few digits to your tax return, or garnishing your bank account, or possibly putting a lien your property. Hell, the IRS does it all the time. It isn't as if the information of every cent you have, and everything you own, isn't accessible.
The pay-as-you-go plan.
| 232 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:19:38am |
re: #230 Diego
You should pay if you choose the option or not, unless you're actually poor.
You make it sound like all insurance will be banned. That is an uninformed position.
No, if Zero gets his way I will pay for not having insurance.
| 233 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:19:45am |
re: #230 Diego
So in your no doubt superior and informed opinion, what would happen to the private insurance providers once they're undercut by a gov't option?
| 234 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:21:28am |
re: #233 Fenway_Nation
They see the err of their ways, lower their rates, and apologize to the world for fucking us over all these years, and for putting all that toxic shit in cigarettes they forgot to tell us about.
//
| 235 |
BatGuano Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:21:56am |
I want the gubment out of my vagina!
Actually I'm a guy so that is not exactly accurate. But the sentiment still obtains.
| 236 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:21:57am |
And by the way, I haven't had a cold or flu in 12 years.
| 237 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:23:27am |
re: #235 BatGuano
I want the gubment out of my vagina!
Actually I'm a guy so that is not exactly accurate. But the sentiment still obtains.
That's funny right there.
| 238 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:23:59am |
re: #232 Cannadian Club Akbar
And when you fall ill, and you will, who would pay for it? Maybe sell your house? Well, that's what is happening NOW, not what will happen if the system is reformed.
re: #233 Fenway_Nation
I didn't class myself as in any way superior. Perhaps better informed, perhaps not. But saying health care reform is communism isn't well informed, IMHO.
Private insurers will be just fine, and still making billions. I'm hardly worried about their bottom lines, though they may have to settle for $2 million a year for each executive rather than $5 million. Aw, poor them! How will they survive on so little?!?
| 239 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:24:00am |
re: #235 BatGuano
I want the gubment out of my vagina!
I hate it when that happens. I think they make a cream for that.
| 240 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:24:12am |
re: #237 Cannadian Club Akbar
That's funny right there.
Not only funny, I also have to agree with the sentiment.
| 242 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:27:16am |
re: #241 Cannadian Club Akbar
So you don't think you will? Cool, and good luck! :¬)
| 243 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:28:40am |
re: #242 Diego
So you don't think you will? Cool, and good luck! :¬)
I eat fatty food, I drink and smoke. I like my chances:)
| 244 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:30:15am |
re: #238 Diego
Am I supposed to admire your contributions to the Global War Against Strawmen?
Seems likevery time somebody brings up healthcare or 0bama you see to counter with 'Grr! Executives making seven figure salaries! *snarl!* Halliburton! Blackwater!'
| 246 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:32:31am |
re: #243 Cannadian Club Akbar
Everyone gets sick at some point. And if you somehow go your whole life without getting sick you will certainly need medical assistance when you are very old. not to mention that I really doubt your entire family will be as well as you seem to think you will be. that's the thing about illness, it strikes us all and is never expected.
But even if you and everyone in your family is somehow miraculously spared ever facing a grave illness, you're still paying for all those who don't have insurance and can't get insurance, just at the much higher emergency room rates and for illnesses which are all the more expensive because they are not treated when they are manageable.
It is an inescapable fact.
| 247 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:37:02am |
re: #246 Diego
My dad died of cancer. So did my grandma, grandpa. I live life. I don't fear death.
| 248 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:37:12am |
re: #214 Diego
GO DIEGO GO!
(still on phone)
Damn, you're really driving straight to the hoop, aren't you? Like it!
| 249 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:37:36am |
Everyone needs food and water every day. Howcome we don't have food insurance? What do you think would happen to the price of food if we did have food insurance?
| 250 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:38:49am |
re: #247 Cannadian Club Akbar
Didn't you already mention you have health insurance? Just verifying...
| 252 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:41:17am |
re: #250 theheat
Didn't you already mention you have health insurance? Just verifying...
No, I don't. But I did spend $6000 on insurance and never used it. I like HSA.
| 253 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:41:58am |
re: #247 Cannadian Club Akbar
I don't fear death either, it's a natural part of life.
I do fear my family trying to meet the burden should I, or one of them, fall seriously ill.
Check how many people are forced into medical bankruptcy. Check how many had insurance when it happened. It happens a lot.
re: #249 UncleRancher
Everyone needs food and water every day. Howcome we don't have food insurance? What do you think would happen to the price of food if we did have food insurance?
We do. It's called 'welfare'..
| 254 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:42:15am |
| 255 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:42:51am |
re: #249 UncleRancher
Well, they'd probably charge a premium for fattening food, what they classified as danger food: ice cream, chips, anything not a fruit or vegetable. It's already done with alcohol and cigarettes. Then, there'd be the potentially dangerous foods, like eggs and meat, since they are potential carriers for e.coli, salmonella, and a host of other awful things.
So, you could have your basic green beans and melons insurance, or your high risk junk food insurance. Lots of choices there.
| 256 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:43:04am |
re: #254 UncleRancher
I can answer that: exactly what is happening with health care.
| 257 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:44:06am |
re: #256 Diego
I can answer that: exactly what is happening with health care.
So you think that's the right solution for everyone?
| 258 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:44:10am |
re: #255 theheat
They will tax junk food. Just wait.
| 259 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:45:16am |
re: #235 BatGuano
I want the gubment out of my vagina!
Actually I'm a guy so that is not exactly accurate. But the sentiment still obtains.
best Onion article ever, no matter where you are on the abortion debate:
US out of My Uterus by Jessica Linden
vs
We Must Deploy Troops to Jessica Linden's Uterus Immediately
| 260 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:45:30am |
re: #258 Cannadian Club Akbar
They already do in my state. They have for many years. Any convenience food is taxed, though not anything like the sin tax on alcohol and cigarettes.
| 261 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:45:42am |
re: #258 Cannadian Club Akbar
The unelected Gov. of NY state was proposing a 14% sales tax on non-diet sodas earlier this year.
| 262 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:48:31am |
re: #261 Fenway_Nation
The unelected Gov. of NY state was proposing a 14% sales tax on non-diet sodas earlier this year.
I saw that. If they include all sugary foods that would have to include OJ.
| 264 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:50:54am |
re: #259 iceweasel
The tactical importance of Jessica Linden's uterus to national security is twofold: First, with its rich, fertile walls, this uterus is a vital source of future Americans. Second, the uterus is situated in an extremely strategic location, leaving it vulnerable to a hostile foreign power. This uterus must be given top priority by the Pentagon. Establishing a strong U.S. military presence in Jessica Linden's uterine region is by far the most sensible course of action.
heh.
| 265 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:52:43am |
re: #263 Diego
Can you clarify your question?
re: #256 Diego
I can answer that: exactly what is happening with health care.
re: #254 UncleRancher
Let me rephrase. What would happen to the price of food if everyone were forced to pay for their food with food insurance?
What's to clarify? You answered the question.
| 266 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:53:12am |
| 267 |
SixDegrees Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:53:30am |
re: #246 Diego
you're still paying for all those who don't have insurance and can't get insurance, just at the much higher emergency room rates
Not so much. Although this was more true in the past, most hospitals have long since ameliorated this problem by opening critical care "clinics" as adjuncts to their emergency room facilities. At our local hospital a large percentage of cases get triaged out of the emergency room and sent next door for clinic care where costs are considerably cheaper in terms of equipment, staffing density and wages. Cases can, of course, move in the other direction as well, but it never made sense for an emergency room to treat headaches and runny noses (in most cases) so a two-tiered approach was found thanks to private enterprise. Yes, people without insurance sometimes walk without paying - although much less so than they would if charged for full emergency room services, and even if the hospital does get stiffed the burden on paying patients is substantially less.
As for whether preventive care saves money over critical care resulting from deferred treatment - that's debatable. Yes, it costs a lot of money when someone's heart suddenly clogs up and they require an emergency triple bypass. But "preventive" treatment for such disease requires years of regular medical care - exams, tests, prescriptions, you name it - that in the end probably won't prevent such an outcome so much as delay it, adding the cost of all that preventive care to the emergency treatment that will be required in the end anyway. I'm sure there are cases were preventive care works out to be cheaper than emergency intervention even when amortized over the patient's lifetime, but it isn't at all clear that this will be true overall.
| 268 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:53:44am |
re: #258 Cannadian Club Akbar
Just figured out, fruitcup would be taxed. LoL might need fruitcup vendor's insurance. What if one night we all bellied up to the buffet, and got fruitcup poisoning?
| 269 |
jantjepietje Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:54:12am |
Hitler finds out Americans are calling each other Nazis
play on the classic xbox live thing Hitler is mad that he worked so hard to become the most evil man that has ever lived just to see republicans and democrats call each other Hitler if they don't agree
| 270 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:54:12am |
re: #265 UncleRancher
I meant this question: So you think that's the right solution for everyone?
| 271 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:56:26am |
Well...as fun and intellectually stimulating as this all is, I should get some shuteye so I can 'do the work that most American's won't' tomorrow.
| 272 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:56:58am |
re: #266 Cannadian Club Akbar
That is funny right there. I second your heh.
Hey CCA. ;)
It is pretty funny. Here is some more:
I propose that four U.S. Army divisions be deployed to Jessica Linden's uterus no later than midnight Friday. Once there, a reconnaissance force of 200 men will be stationed on her cervical perimeter, denying entrance to any unauthorized personnel or equipment. Another two battalions will be stationed inside the uterus itself, where they will set up camp and, if necessary, conduct armed patrols in force.
Remaining personnel will conduct amphibious patrol in the forward vaginal canal and as far back as the fallopian entrances, scouting for cervical dilation or other such activity. The entire operation will receive air support from a wing of Blackhawk helicopters, which will rotate in pairs patrolling the greater vaginal area. Our forces will constitute a impenetrable iron diaphragm, preventing any and all foreign elements from compromising uterine security.
Should we encounter a foreign power disputing our claim upon the Linden uterus and surrounding vagina, we will be prepared to engage its forces in armed conflict. We will consider the nation's safety our number one priority, regardless of Ms. Linden's unwillingness to cooperate.
The Pentagon will consider a full-scale invasion of Jessica Linden's ovaries only as a last resort, after all other options have been exhausted. We recognize in principle Jessica Linden's sovereignty over the ovarian territory, but to prevent the loss of the reproductive system to a hostile power, we are prepared to do what we must, even if that means conducting a firebombing and strafing campaign that may result in full military hysterectomy. If we must destroy the uterus in order to save it, so be it.
If U.S. uterine occupation extends into the second week of October, we will install an irrigation and drainage system in anticipation of Miss Linden's menstrual cycle. This will not only benefit her, but provide our troops with a cleaner, more navigable terrain on which to conduct their military maneuvers.
| 273 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:58:08am |
re: #267 SixDegrees
I'll give you points there, but that doesn't change the fact that many, if not most, of those wouldn't need the hospital emergency room or the clinic if they simply had an affordable OPTION like a public pool which they could join.
That is what the 'public option' is, plain and simple.
| 275 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:58:46am |
re: #267 SixDegrees
I got a prescription for cholesterol. I ended up in the ER. Prevention, not so much. And I paid cash.
| 277 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:00:40am |
Holy Toledo, I just looked at the clock. I can't believe it's this late. I'm checking out right behind Fenway. It's been real, All. Good night!
| 278 |
UncleRancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:00:48am |
Gotta run. Got livestock to feed. Cheers. :-)
| 279 |
theheat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:01:19am |
| 286 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:03:05am |
The early morning folks are checking out, daylight lizards coming in.
"Mornin' Ralph."
-Looney Toons
| 287 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:03:48am |
re: #284 Cannadian Club Akbar
WTF? Everyone bailing!!!
yes. :(
Hello everyone, goodbye everyone. It's been lovely as always.
cheers, iDub
| 289 |
SixDegrees Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:04:53am |
re: #273 Diego
I'll give you points there, but that doesn't change the fact that many, if not most, of those wouldn't need the hospital emergency room or the clinic if they simply had an affordable OPTION like a public pool which they could join.
That is what the 'public option' is, plain and simple.
Well, no. The public option is a proto-boondoggle funded by taxpayers that introduces severe distortions into the otherwise free marketplace which are practically impossible to overcome.
And as already noted, private enterprise is already effectively addressing the high cost of "emergency room medicine" by diverting many of those patients to less costly alternatives, which reduces costs all around and makes it easier for patients to absorb the cost themselves, which also reduces the number of defaults that wind up getting passed on. It seems as though a 'private option' is within reach already, but free-market plans seem to be summarily rejected in the current climate.
| 290 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:04:58am |
New taxes go up tomorrow in my state. Gubment computers crashed Friday. DMV and tax offices will be jammed today.
| 291 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:05:37am |
| 293 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:06:07am |
| 294 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:06:57am |
re: #289 SixDegrees
So, how things are going now is just fine to you? You don't see a problem? There isn't anything to solve? Those without insurance are just fine and dandy??
I'm not saying you have said these things, but I'd be interested to know where you think we are, and where you think we're going if nothing is done.
| 295 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:09:20am |
re: #294 Diego
So, how things are going now is just fine to you? You don't see a problem? There isn't anything to solve? Those without insurance are just fine and dandy??
I'm not saying you have said these things, but I'd be interested to know where you think we are, and where you think we're going if nothing is done.
There is nothing about tort reform in Zerocare. Let's start there. Loser pays.
| 296 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:11:20am |
re: #295 Cannadian Club Akbar
Okay, let's talk tort reform: what effect did it have in Texas?
I'm not saying I'm against it, I'm not. But it seems a little bit of a red herring and even if it is in the final bill, the Republicans, who have said they won't even read it, will still not vote for it.
| 297 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:12:56am |
re: #295 Cannadian Club Akbar
Oh, and why the attempt to dehumanize Obama by calling him 'Zero'? What's that all about??
I didn't like Bush, but I didn't make up stupid names for him. I called him President Bush, and still do.
| 298 |
Flyers1974 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:16:58am |
Interesting Foreign Affairs article. Summary: The common and reoccuring (over our modern history) prediction that the US is declining/will soon decline as a global superpower is not in accord with reality.
[Link: www.foreignaffairs.com...]
| 299 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:17:23am |
re: #297 Diego
Oh, and why the attempt to dehumanize Obama by calling him 'Zero'? What's that all about??
I didn't like Bush, but I didn't make up stupid names for him. I called him President Bush, and still do.
Obama is my Prez. I'm not dehumanizing him.
| 301 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:21:20am |
My radio just said people who drink spend more time at the gym. I gotta see one of those gym thingys.
| 302 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:21:37am |
re: #299 Cannadian Club Akbar
If I call you 'zero', or anything of the like, I'm dehumanizing you and belittling you. I just honestly don't see the need.
| 303 |
Flyers1974 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:24:04am |
re: #296 Diego
Okay, let's talk tort reform: what effect did it have in Texas?
I'm not saying I'm against it, I'm not. But it seems a little bit of a red herring and even if it is in the final bill, the Republicans, who have said they won't even read it, will still not vote for it.
Its a convenient boogyman in my opinion.
| 304 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:25:39am |
re: #302 Diego
I called Bush "W" and called Clinton "Bubba." And my friends call me all sorts of names.
| 305 |
Hengineer Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:26:47am |
re: #304 Cannadian Club Akbar
I called Bush "W" and called Clinton "Bubba." And my friends call me all sorts of names.
I called Clinton Slick Willy
| 306 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:29:01am |
I can not imagine that proper tort reform, would not bring about some cost savings? The only cost savings I have seen in the plans have been cutting reimbursements to healthcare providers.
Anybody know why tort reform hasn't had an impact in Texas? I just can't imagine why not.
| 307 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:30:04am |
re: #306 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I will improve my use of the question mark. Rewrote the dang question into a statement... now it looks all stupid. Sorry.
| 308 |
3 wood Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:31:20am |
Good morning. It's 50 degrees on this chilly morning in October, er... August.
The futures are pointing down, so expect a bit of a pull back in the market.
| 309 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:33:26am |
re: #308 3 wood
I hate you. It's 80 degrees here. Can't wait for the sun to come up. :)
| 310 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:34:48am |
re: #303 Flyers1974
I, frankly don't need a boogeyman. I strongly believe that these guys could completely screw up a wet-dream.
For example, (with apologies to Norm McDonald) in my wet-dream I want to be in a pool with a nude and horney Christie Brinkley. The Feds'll have me shooting pool with a nude and sweaty David Brinkley.
I just don't trust them to get it CLOSE to right. That's all.
| 311 |
96RoadKing Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:35:27am |
re: #308 3 wood
Good morning. It's 50 degrees on this chilly morning in October, er... August.
The futures are pointing down, so expect a bit of a pull back in the market.
Any thoughts on the idea that the massive influx of cash could result in rempant inflation and the S&P taking a massive drop in value?
| 313 |
3 wood Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:37:08am |
The market is anticipating growing unemployment.
Bond Market Eyeing 10% Jobless Rate Rejects Recovery
The bond market isn’t buying all the optimism over the end of the global recession.While the International Monetary Fund said last week the economic recovery will be faster than it forecast in July, investors pushed yields on government debt to the lowest level since April, according to the Merrill Lynch & Co. Global Sovereign Broad Market Plus Index. The gauge, which tracks $15.4 trillion of bonds worldwide, gained 0.73 percent this month, the most since 1.02 percent in March.
Debt investors can’t see a recovery strong enough to spur central bank interest rates anytime soon, especially with the Obama administration forecasting that unemployment in the U.S. - - the world’s largest economy -- will rise above 10 percent in the first quarter. After stripping out the effects of the U.S. government’s “cash for clunkers” program to buy new cars, consumer spending was unchanged in July, according to Commerce Department data released on Aug. 28.
“The bond market does not believe we will see rapid robust rates of growth,” said Jeffrey Caughron, an associate partner in Oklahoma City at The Baker Group Ltd., which advises community banks investing $20 billion. “The deleveraging of the consumer will act as a drag on growth, which will keep inflation to a minimum and interest rates relatively low.”
Bottom lime is, job destruction is continuing and the economy continues to contract. Expect the stock market to reflect this shortly. Some stocks will have heightened profits due to lower payroll costs, others will plummet.
| 314 |
96RoadKing Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:38:03am |
re: #313 3 wood
The market is anticipating growing unemployment.
Bond Market Eyeing 10% Jobless Rate Rejects Recovery
You're just a f*$#ing ray of sunshine this morning, ain't ya?
Bottom lime is, job destruction is continuing and the economy continues to contract. Expect the stock market to reflect this shortly. Some stocks will have heightened profits due to lower payroll costs, others will plummet.
| 315 |
96RoadKing Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:39:03am |
re: #313 3 wood
The market is anticipating growing unemployment.
Bond Market Eyeing 10% Jobless Rate Rejects Recovery
Bottom lime is, job destruction is continuing and the economy continues to contract. Expect the stock market to reflect this shortly. Some stocks will have heightened profits due to lower payroll costs, others will plummet.
You're just a ray of sunshine this moring, ain't ya?
Sorry...screwed up the original response.
Time for coffee...!
| 316 |
3 wood Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:39:46am |
re: #311 96RoadKing
Any thoughts on the idea that the massive influx of cash could result in rempant inflation and the S&P taking a massive drop in value?
Given that jobs are still being destroyed (14.5 million and counting) the income level has dropped such that you are not seeing much inflation for now. Whenever the job situation turns around and income starts going up, look out for inflation to take off.
In addition, the massive debt sales will have an effect on interest rates, as the market will demand higher and higher interest rates as an incentive to buy up all that debt.
| 317 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:40:16am |
Oh, for pity's sake. I've had to put on yoga pants and a sweat shirt. And, socks. It's 8/31.
| 318 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:40:35am |
Makes one wonder what the jobless rate would have been had the banks, auto makers, etc, not been bailed out.
| 319 |
96RoadKing Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:41:11am |
re: #302 Diego
If I call you 'zero', or anything of the like, I'm dehumanizing you and belittling you. I just honestly don't see the need.
Diego -- IMO, you'll need a thicker skin around here, especially when dealing in political opinion. The names can come pretty thick and heavy. Think of early American politics.
| 320 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:42:43am |
re: #319 96RoadKing
yeah, I'm with you. I just never understood the need.
The closest I've ever come to it is "Dick 'Dick' Cheney" :P
| 321 |
3 wood Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:42:44am |
re: #318 Diego
Makes one wonder what the jobless rate would have been had the banks, auto makers, etc, not been bailed out.
To me the key was the banks. If the financial system had melted down, you would be looking at 25% or more unemployment right now.
| 323 |
96RoadKing Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:43:45am |
re: #318 Diego
Makes one wonder what the jobless rate would have been had the banks, auto makers, etc, not been bailed out.
I'd suggest that had those institutions been allowed to fail, the market would have had a better chance of correcting. Every time the gubmint gets involved, the resulting cure tends to be worse than the illness, but then, I'm a self described curmudgeon.
| 325 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:44:54am |
re: #289 SixDegrees
Well, no. The public option is a proto-boondoggle funded by taxpayers that introduces severe distortions into the otherwise free marketplace which are practically impossible to overcome.
And as already noted, private enterprise is already effectively addressing the high cost of "emergency room medicine" by diverting many of those patients to less costly alternatives, which reduces costs all around and makes it easier for patients to absorb the cost themselves, which also reduces the number of defaults that wind up getting passed on. It seems as though a 'private option' is within reach already, but free-market plans seem to be summarily rejected in the current climate.
And there is another option, which is public in that its funding comes from medicare/medicaid, and that is a system of "charity" hospitals like what Louisiana has.
Here is their 2008 annual report.
This system exists here, works well, and is in place without turning the entire healthcare/health insurance of everybody inside out.
| 326 |
96RoadKing Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:45:18am |
re: #320 Diego
yeah, I'm with you. I just never understood the need.
The closest I've ever come to it is "Dick 'Dick' Cheney" :P
Think of it as a safety valve to blow off internal steam.
Mornin' Mandy! How's the coffee this morning?
| 327 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:46:44am |
re: #325 reine.de.tout
Hurricane Katrina.
/the one thing that keeps me skeptical of single-payer in general is how a response to a major health crisis would go - e.g. the French 2003 Heat Wave.
| 328 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:46:54am |
re: #302 Diego
If I call you 'zero', or anything of the like, I'm dehumanizing you and belittling you. I just honestly don't see the need.
How about FCBBHO?
BOO!
| 330 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:48:34am |
| 331 |
Lucius Septimius Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:49:00am |
re: #325 reine.de.tout
Morning -- did you see the piece in the WSJ today on Obamacare myths? I thought this portion quite revealing:
The World Health Organization ranks the U.S. 37th In the world in quality. This is another frightening statistic. It is also not accurate. Yet the head of the National Committee for Quality Assurance, a powerful organization influencing both the government and private insurers in defining quality of care, has stated this as fact.The World Health Organization ranks the U.S. No. 1 among all countries in "responsiveness." Responsiveness has two components: respect for persons (including dignity, confidentiality and autonomy of individuals and families to make decisions about their own care), and client orientation (including prompt attention, access to social support networks during care, quality of basic amenities and choice of provider). This is what Americans rightly understand as quality care and worry will be lost in the upheaval of reform. Our country's composite score fell to 37 primarily because we lack universal coverage and care is a financial burden for many citizens.
In other words, we have the best healthcare in the world; the low ranking is only because WHO doesn't like the fact that it isn't socialized medicine.
| 332 |
Pullus Iulius Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:50:33am |
| 333 |
96RoadKing Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:50:45am |
re: #331 Lucius Septimius
Morning -- did you see the piece in the WSJ today on Obamacare myths? I thought this portion quite revealing:
In other words, we have the best healthcare in the world; the low ranking is only because WHO doesn't like the fact that it isn't socialized medicine.
And once it is socialized, it'll REALLY drop to 37th!
| 334 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:51:12am |
re: #331 Lucius Septimius
Mainly because in America the bill is sent after the medical operations are done, whereas in Europe, they're told it's free/nominal fee so they don't have to worry about a bill.
/
| 335 |
VioletTiger Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:51:28am |
re: #317 MandyManners
Oh, for pity's sake. I've had to put on yoga pants and a sweat shirt. And, socks. It's 8/31.
We're expecting temps in the 40's tonight.
Very unusual.
| 336 |
Flyers1974 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:51:33am |
re: #310 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I, frankly don't need a boogeyman. I strongly believe that these guys could completely screw up a wet-dream.
For example, (with apologies to Norm McDonald) in my wet-dream I want to be in a pool with a nude and horney Christie Brinkley. The Feds'll have me shooting pool with a nude and sweaty David Brinkley.
I just don't trust them to get it CLOSE to right. That's all.
Don't get me wrong, I'm an Obama supporter but I'm by no means convinced/lack sufficient knowledge to have a strong opinion regarding the overall plan. I simply object to those who blame our health care problems entirely or even primarily on frivolous medmal suits. If there is money to be made from frivolous medmal suits (as opposed to frivolous personal injury suits, for example) then I'm doing something wrong, because I turn them away as fast as possible.
| 337 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:51:59am |
re: #332 Pullus Iulius
Or Ö.
/thank you, rock 'n roll.
That could work. ü
/thank you, text messaging, for inventing proper-facing smileys.
| 338 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:52:04am |
re: #327 laZardo
Hurricane Katrina.
/the one thing that keeps me skeptical of single-payer in general is how a response to a major health crisis would go - e.g. the French 2003 Heat Wave.
Katrina affected all the hospitals in New Orleans, not just Charity.
And this is a system, with hospital and clinics in other areas of the state.
So I'm not quite understanding your point.
I know that in the aftermath of Katrina - Charity employees and staff worked virtually 24/7 for 5 days without electricity to keep the patients alive. I know this for a fact, as I know many of those employees, and watched as they were finally evacuated.
| 339 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:52:10am |
re: #326 96RoadKing
Think of it as a safety valve to blow off internal steam.
Mornin' Mandy! How's the coffee this morning?
I'm about to adjust the IV drip.
| 340 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:52:22am |
| 341 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:53:04am |
| 342 |
Lucius Septimius Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:53:18am |
re: #340 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Oh, and our infant mortality rates suck.
cough(bullshit)cough.
Only because we treat premies as "live births" whereas the Europeans don't.
| 343 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:53:36am |
| 344 |
3 wood Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:53:42am |
re: #331 Lucius Septimius
In other words, we have the best healthcare in the world; the low ranking is only because WHO doesn't like the fact that it isn't socialized medicine.
Well, it's a rigged study.
| 345 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:54:12am |
re: #331 Lucius Septimius
Morning -- did you see the piece in the WSJ today on Obamacare myths? I thought this portion quite revealing:
In other words, we have the best healthcare in the world; the low ranking is only because WHO doesn't like the fact that it isn't socialized medicine.
Good grief!
It isn't socialized medicine, but people needing care get it, and get the best.
And WHO doesn't like it. It seems the rest of the world would love for us to sink to their levels, rather than them trying to advance to ours.
| 346 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:54:38am |
re: #345 reine.de.tout
Good grief!
It isn't socialized medicine, but people needing care get it, and get the best.And WHO doesn't like it. It seems the rest of the world would love for us to sink to their levels, rather than them trying to advance to ours.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
| 347 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:54:52am |
re: #335 VioletTiger
We're expecting temps in the 40's tonight.
Very unusual.
Maybe nature is coming under the command of the NFL. Just wait until pre-season games start the first week of August.
| 348 |
Lucius Septimius Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:54:52am |
re: #345 reine.de.tout
It seems the rest of the world would love for us to sink to their levels, rather than them trying to advance to ours.
DING! We got a winnahhh!
| 349 |
VioletTiger Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:55:04am |
re: #336 Flyers1974
Don't get me wrong, I'm an Obama supporter but I'm by no means convinced/lack sufficient knowledge to have a strong opinion regarding the overall plan. I simply object to those who blame our health care problems entirely or even primarily on frivolous medmal suits. If there is money to be made from frivolous medmal suits (as opposed to frivolous personal injury suits, for example) then I'm doing something wrong, because I turn them away as fast as possible.
It's not just the medmal suits.
It the testing and defensive medicine that docs do to CYA in order to avoid those suits.
It all adds up.
| 350 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:55:06am |
re: #345 reine.de.tout
Good grief!
It isn't socialized medicine, but people needing care get it, and get the best.And WHO doesn't like it. It seems the rest of the world would love for us to sink to their levels, rather than them trying to advance to ours.
AMEN!!!
| 351 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:56:05am |
re: #336 Flyers1974
Not "frivolous" lawsuits that are a problem (IMO). It's the awarding 30 kajillion quatloos to someone because a slick lawyer can "channel" a frickin' dead baby in front of a panel of idiots.
Many people can speak with more knowledge than I, but, I don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that a whole buncha money is spent of defensive medicine.
| 352 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:56:07am |
re: #331 Lucius Septimius
Our country's composite score fell to 37 primarily because we lack universal coverage and care is a financial burden for many citizens.
And shouldn't it? 'Lack of universal coverage' doesn't mean 'not socialized', it means people don't get care. 'Financial burden' is about the number of people, insured as well as uninsured, who go bankrupt only because they got sick as well as those who are 'priced out of the market', which also happens every day.
Sure, the US has the best care, but only for those who can afford the cost. naturally, every Republican and Democrat alike who don't want reform are already on the best care int eh world, and you are paying for it.
It's only the best care in the world if YOU can access it. The Ritz has the best food in the world, but I'll never eat it and so it's hardly the best TO ME.
| 353 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:56:14am |
re: #338 reine.de.tout
My question really is how would a single-payer health care system be able to respond if an area of the country is "wiped out" like New Orleans was. Would the employees have to follow "evacuation" protocol?
| 355 |
Lucius Septimius Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:58:07am |
Then there was this gem:
No government bureaucrat will come between you and your doctor. The president has repeatedly stated this in town-hall meetings. But his proposal to provide financial incentives to "allow doctors to do the right thing" could undermine this promise. If doctors and hospitals are rewarded for complying with government mandated treatment measures or penalized if they do not comply, clearly federal bureaucrats are directing health decisions.
Further, at the AMA convention in June 2009, the president proposed linking protection for physicians from malpractice lawsuits if they strictly adhered to government-sponsored treatment guidelines. We need tort reform, but this is misconceived and again clearly inserts the bureaucrat directly into clinical decision making. If doctors are legally protected when they follow government mandates, the converse is that doctors risk lawsuits if they deviate from federal guidelines—even if they believe the government mandate is not in the patient's best interest. With this kind of legislation, physicians might well pressure the patient to comply with treatments even if the therapy clashes with the individual's values and preferences.
Oops.
| 356 |
Truck Monkey Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:59:19am |
| 357 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:59:21am |
re: #351 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Aye? How much is your baby worth to you then?
I have 6 children and if any one of then were to die due to the negligence of a doctor I'd want him so sued that he'd never be in business again. Period!
| 358 |
3 wood Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:59:31am |
Tribune may exit bankruptcy this fall: report
Bankrupt U.S. media group Tribune Co could emerge from bankruptcy in the autumn without a major overhaul of its present top management, the New York Times said, citing people briefed on the restructuring plans.The status of Tribune's chief executive Sam Zell is however not clear, the paper said.
People close to the talks told the paper that major creditors have not made it clear whether they want Zell to leave the company or work in another capacity. Zell's plans are also unclear, the paper said.
Zell issued a massive amount of debt and bankrupted the firm, sticking it to the creditors.
I'd throw the bum out on his ear.
| 359 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:00:11am |
re: #355 Lucius Septimius
Because these particular bureaucrats would make sure doctors follow the law and thus leave lawsuits with little substance?
/
| 360 |
3 wood Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:00:31am |
re: #345 reine.de.tout
It seems the rest of the world would love for us to sink to their levels, rather than them trying to advance to ours.
They might want to rethink that. They've always had us to fall back on if things got serious. Once we go socialist, that option closes for them too.
| 362 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:01:02am |
re: #360 3 wood
They might want to rethink that. They've always had us to fall back on if things got serious. Once we go socialist, that option closes for them too.
You used a word in there that's foreign to most of the world, 3 wood. "Think". People never do that anymore.
| 363 |
Lucius Septimius Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:02:30am |
re: #352 Diego
But the fact is, health care is available to everyone; hospitals do not turn people away. And no one ever pays sticker price. And if the goal is to make health care affordable for a wider range of the public, then it makes sense to lift some of the regulations that make it difficult for individuals to purchase their own plans at affordable rates.
Obamacare is not intended to provide healthcare for individuals who can't afford it -- Medicare and Medicaid already exist; they don't need to be invented from whole cloth. The legislation being put forth is intended to increase the role of the state in the health care coverage of people who already have private health insurance or suck them into a government-run plan.
| 364 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:03:06am |
re: #355 Lucius Septimius
Is there room under the bus for the hippocratic oath?
| 365 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:03:25am |
No one is talking about the US 'going socialist'. That's intellectually dishonest fear mongering. 60 years ago we were going 'socialist' and it hasn't happened yet and isn't going to happen any time soon.
the few 'socialist' programs we have now certainly are not doing it and I don't see Republicans standing in halls telling everyone how they're going to do away with Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.
| 366 |
Lucius Septimius Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:03:33am |
re: #364 Spare O'Lake
Is there room under the bus for the hippocratic oath?
There's always room for more.
OK, I'm late for work -- later.
| 367 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:03:52am |
re: #363 Lucius Septimius
All right, sarc tags off for this one...
Wouldn't lifting these regulations end up giving insurance companies even more free reign to find ways to shaft the consumer?
| 368 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:03:57am |
re: #325 reine.de.tout
And there is another option, which is public in that its funding comes from medicare/medicaid, and that is a system of "charity" hospitals like what Louisiana has.
Here is their 2008 annual report.
This system exists here, works well, and is in place without turning the entire healthcare/health insurance of everybody inside out.
Charity Hospital system in Louisiana:
Louisiana State University operates eight hospitals, which are managed by the Health Care Services Division. Combined, the LSU facilities admit 50,000 patients annually, and they provide nearly 1.2 million outpatient visits, around 70 percent of which are clinic visits.
Mission-driven to care for the uninsured and provide training opportunities for future health professionals, LSU HCSD is a statewide safety net system in which everyone is eligible for care.
LSU hospitals, in providing the majority of care to the uninsured patients in the state, support other community facilities by protecting them from a greater share of uncompensated care.
Why can't this be the model for providing care for the uninsured, rather than a huge bloated law that nobody understands? This is in place, the model is available for anyone to look at, and it works.
| 369 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:04:12am |
re: #296 Diego
Okay, let's talk tort reform: what effect did it have in Texas?
I'm not saying I'm against it, I'm not. But it seems a little bit of a red herring and even if it is in the final bill, the Republicans, who have said they won't even read it, will still not vote for it.
It's a red herring because fixing it (and malpractice insurance, etc) isn't sufficient to address the real problem. And yes, the Repubs have already announced they'll vote against it anyway.
re: #320 Diego
yeah, I'm with you. I just never understood the need.
The closest I've ever come to it is "Dick 'Dick' Cheney" :P
Disagree, in one way. If people want to call Obama 'zero' I may find it juvenile and tiresome, just like I did when the left made up names for Bush or Cheney, but it's all good. Free speech, satiric comment, etc. I don't find 'zero' dehumanising. At any rate not more that I found "ChimpyMcHitlerHalliburton" dehumanising for Bush.
My main objection is that 'zero' just isn't funny enough. The left has way funnier nicknames for Obama.
And there is a long tradition of mockery for the POTUS in power. I think it's very American and very healthy, personally-- but then, I did own a Tshirt that said "My Bush would make a better President".
| 370 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:04:54am |
re: #357 Diego
So, 30 kajillion quatloos is fair? What the hell, howabout 100 kajillion? 100 is better than 30. So, why not.
Or, howabout one kajillion.
Or, what if it's not the doctors fault? What if your baby was simply born with a birth defect? My son was colicky. Who was supposed to pay for that?
Can't believe that you think 30 kajillion quatloos was fair in any way shape or form.
| 371 |
3 wood Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:05:03am |
re: #352 Diego
And shouldn't it? 'Lack of universal coverage' doesn't mean 'not socialized', it means people don't get care.
If you go to an emergency room, you will get care. It's the law.
I think you are mixing up the word "care" with "coverage". Also, you are free to go out and get all the coverage you want.
What I think a lot of this boils down to is some folks want to make it a "right" to make others pay for their coverage.
| 372 |
Joshua Cohen Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:05:44am |
Uah...ambush in Afghanistan. 25 trucks of a NATO resupply convoy loaded with gas and armored vehicles struck.
Mountain pass closed...
| 373 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:05:59am |
re: #371 3 wood
If you go to an emergency room, you will get care. It's the law.
I think you are mixing up the word "care" with "coverage". Also, you are free to go out and get all the coverage you want.
What I think a lot of this boils down to is some folks want to make it a "right" to make others pay for their coverage.
Two points worth a repeat.
| 374 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:06:29am |
re: #352 Diego
Have you considered moving to a nation with socialized payment for medical care?
| 375 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:06:34am |
re: #371 3 wood
What I think a lot of this boils down to is some folks want to make it a "right" to make others pay for their coverage.
This is basically the long and short of it.
| 376 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:06:37am |
re: #336 Flyers1974
Don't get me wrong, I'm an Obama supporter but I'm by no means convinced/lack sufficient knowledge to have a strong opinion regarding the overall plan. I simply object to those who blame our health care problems entirely or even primarily on frivolous medmal suits. If there is money to be made from frivolous medmal suits (as opposed to frivolous personal injury suits, for example) then I'm doing something wrong, because I turn them away as fast as possible.
Hey Flyers!
totally agree, btw.
| 377 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:06:47am |
re: #368 reine.de.tout
Wouldn't that technically count as close to state-level single-payer, as the system is an offshoot of a public university?
Plus the whole "medical education" bit seems very...guinea pig-ish.
| 378 |
Lucius Septimius Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:07:15am |
re: #367 laZardo
All right, sarc tags off for this one...
Wouldn't lifting these regulations end up giving insurance companies even more free reign to find ways to shaft the consumer?
Depends on which regulations you're referring to.
Allowing people to deduct health insurance or pay for it before taxes, as with employer supported programs, would be a serious boon. Also; allowing people to pick their coverage rather than have to pay for things they might never need.
And as far as the insurance companies go, if you can drop one and move to another, the ones who regularly shaft their customers will find themselves in a bind; right now they're able to do it because they have a captive audience. I have the insurer my employer tells me I can have. Right now I'm happy with it; I wasn't happy with the previous one, but I didn't have much say in the matter other than "HMO or PPO" or whatever.
OK, now I'm REEALLY late.
| 379 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:07:46am |
re: #371 3 wood
If you go to an emergency room, you will get care. It's the law.
Incorrect. They will only provide emergency care. If you need anything else, not their problem.
| 380 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:07:53am |
re: #374 MandyManners
Have you considered moving to a nation with socialized payment for medical care?
Why should he?
Since none of the US proposals involve anything like a socialised system?
| 381 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:08:25am |
re: #363 Lucius Septimius
It sounds like a devil's bargain for doctors: Sell out your integrity and adherence to the Hippocratic oath, and in exchange you will be protected from liability for your misdeeds.
Dr. Faust, please report to the intensive care ward...
| 383 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:09:04am |
re: #377 laZardo
Wouldn't that technically count as close to state-level single-payer, as the system is an offshoot of a public university?
Plus the whole "medical education" bit seems very...guinea pig-ish.
"Medical education" already exists. This is care under the supervision of more experienced doctors. It already exists.
No, not single payer - I can still have whatever insurance I want.
| 384 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:10:06am |
re: #382 Diego
lo Ice, thought you were away off :¬)
I was! Got dragged in again...I don't promise to be very scintillating though.
| 385 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:10:17am |
re: #380 iceweasel
I'm actually against HR 3200 (the primary bill in question) because my impressions so far is that it seems way too bureaucratic to be beneficial in instituting better health care, which needs less bureaucratization as it stands...
| 386 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:10:41am |
re: #357 Diego
It's not about selling your baby, anyway.
| 387 |
opnion Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:10:51am |
Good Morning fun seekers.
Tammy Duckworth of the VA was on FNC last week talking about the 'Your Life, Your Choices " pamphlet on their web-site.
First she said that it had been taken down. When confronted with a screen shot of it, she then said that it had to remain there by Federal Law.
On the radio this morning, it was reported that research tuirned up no such law.
| 388 |
yochanan Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:11:02am |
POLITICS = poli & tics = many blood sucking insects
that is about right.
| 389 |
Middle-Earth Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:11:24am |
Just a little morning music/video.
Dame Vera Lynn re-enters charts
Legendary singer Dame Vera Lynn has become the oldest living artist to enter the top 20 of the UK album chart, her record company said.
Dame Vera, who kept up the spirits of millions of soldiers during World War II, has entered the album chart at number 20 - at the age of 92.
She has achieved her success with her album, We'll Meet Again - The Very Best of Vera Lynn.
Nice going Dame :-)
| 390 |
Flyers1974 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:13:10am |
re: #349 VioletTiger
It's not just the medmal suits.
It the testing and defensive medicine that docs do to CYA in order to avoid those suits.It all adds up.
I agree with you regarding the CYA tests/procedures.
| 391 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:13:42am |
re: #387 opnion
They busted her flat. A bunch. Was ugly.
| 392 |
VioletTiger Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:14:04am |
re: #379 Diego
Stil waiting for you to back up the claim you made last night that insurance companies kill thousands of people every year. Link?
| 393 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:14:05am |
re: #385 laZardo
I'm actually against HR 3200 (the primary bill in question) because my impressions so far is that it seems way too bureaucratic to be beneficial in instituting better health care, which needs less bureaucratization as it stands...
Hey lazardo-- how so? How do you find it more bureaucratic?
Also, how could any health reform on such a scale be less so?
(not snarking, genuinely interested)
| 394 |
Fon_Win Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:14:22am |
Schools "Brass Evolution" t-shirts banned
Because.. you know... evolution... it's a religion.
I'm seriously starting to wonder if this country is worth saving anymore.
| 395 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:14:37am |
I just loved the way the Bears handed the Broncos ass to them last night. The Kid was quite upset about Denver fans booing Cutler. I think the Broncos might've lost their No. one fan. What am I gonna' do with his memorabilia? With his No. 6 shirt?
| 396 |
JamesTKirk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:14:41am |
re: #2 StudSupreme
Evenin', leezardoz...
I'd like to start off this evening with a question:
Are your liberal/Obama-voting friends showing any anxiety or confusion lately?
Mine certainly are ;-)
Some. The majority, however, are drinking even deeper of the Koolaid, and raging about the "right-wing media" and other conspiracies that are smearing him and keeping him from saving the universe as we know it. These are the people who still live in the universe of Obama walking on water and riding naked on unicorns.
To coin a phrase, "Surreality has a wellknown liberal bias,"
| 397 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:15:16am |
re: #393 iceweasel
Hey lazardo-- how so? How do you find it more bureaucratic?
Also, how could any health reform on such a scale be less so?
(not snarking, genuinely interested)
Basically, laZardo wants to deregulate the health care industry... SOMEWHAT. Obviously, there are limits to how far it can be deregulated without endangering peoples' lives, but that's the gist of it.
| 398 |
opnion Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:16:08am |
re: #391 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
They busted her flat. A bunch. Was ugly.
Yeah, it was ugly. She was either totally unprepared or knowingly lying.
| 399 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:16:16am |
re: #397 thedopefishlives
Basically, laZardo wants to deregulate the health care industry... SOMEWHAT. Obviously, there are limits to how far it can be deregulated without endangering peoples' lives, but that's the gist of it.
Yeah, I got some of that, but need more info... cheers, fishie! ;)
| 400 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:16:59am |
Good morning all. I see we are back to flogging the same old horses this fine cool summer morning. Actually, I slept in and missed summer this year I think.
| 401 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:17:07am |
re: #399 iceweasel
Well, he did post a little bit more detail about what he was looking for, as well. ;) Good to see you this morning.
| 402 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:17:37am |
re: #398 opnion
Maybe she was given bad information before she got there? I could totally believe that.
| 403 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:17:51am |
re: #395 MandyManners
Get the kid a personalized jersey. I have 6 from former players.
| 404 |
The Left Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:17:52am |
re: #394 Fon_Win
Schools "Brass Evolution" t-shirts banned
Because.. you know... evolution... it's a religion.
I'm seriously starting to wonder if this country is worth saving anymore.
Oh crap.
Ok, I'm off now. Have a great day, all.
| 405 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:18:01am |
re: #392 VioletTiger
re: #379 Diego
Stil waiting for you to back up the claim you made last night that insurance companies kill thousands of people every year. Link?
It's in the same link as the story of all the doctors who amputate limbs and cut out tonsils so they can go to Vegas with their girlfriends.
/
| 407 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:19:53am |
re: #389 Middle-Earth
Just a little morning music/video.
Dame Vera Lynn re-enters charts
Legendary singer Dame Vera Lynn has become the oldest living artist to enter the top 20 of the UK album chart, her record company said.
Dame Vera, who kept up the spirits of millions of soldiers during World War II, has entered the album chart at number 20 - at the age of 92.
She has achieved her success with her album, We'll Meet Again - The Very Best of Vera Lynn.Nice going Dame :-)
| 408 |
JamesTKirk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:19:58am |
re: #36 StudSupreme
The Republican party is not to be trusted either. … In the next 2 elections ('10 and '12), everyone nationwide should NOT vote for the incumbent at either a national, state or local level. Whoever the incumbent is - regardless of length of service, party affiliation or past record - should be 100% shunned.
All of the incumbents where I live are Democrats. I keep voting against them, but it doesn't seem to do much good.
Whatever person the Democrats, Republicans or any other party fields for the now vacant office(s), everyone should shun any candidate who is a Lawyer.
[Insert Shakespeare quote here]
| 409 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:20:16am |
re: #373 reine.de.tout
oops. Preview would be my friend if I used it:
re: #371 3 wood
If you go to an emergency room, you will get care. It's the law.
I think you are mixing up the word "care" with "coverage". Also, you are free to go out and get all the coverage you want.
What I think a lot of this boils down to is some folks want to make it a "right" to make others pay for their coverage.
Two points worth a repeat.
Two points worth a repeat.
| 410 |
opnion Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:20:22am |
re: #402 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Maybe she was given bad information before she got there? I could totally believe that.
Me too. I like TYammy Duckworth & Will give her the benefit of the doubt, but she should have logged onto the VA web-site.
| 411 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:20:59am |
re: #400 BlueCanuck
Good morning all. I see we are back to flogging the same old horses this fine cool summer morning. Actually, I slept in and missed summer this year I think.
Morning, BC. Frost two counties N of us this am. August.
| 412 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:21:04am |
re: #392 VioletTiger
Stil waiting for you to back up the claim you made last night that insurance companies kill thousands of people every year. Link?
So, you don't think people who are insured are denied care every day all across the country and die as a consequence? Really?
And you don't think those who insurance refuse to cover because they were once sick don't die every day across this country lacking the care they could have had?
Do you really believe this??
| 413 |
Flyers1974 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:21:15am |
re: #351 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Not "frivolous" lawsuits that are a problem (IMO). It's the awarding 30 kajillion quatloos to someone because a slick lawyer can "channel" a frickin' dead baby in front of a panel of idiots.
Many people can speak with more knowledge than I, but, I don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that a whole buncha money is spent of defensive medicine.
I don't deny this, but I think the overall effect on the system is greatly exaggerated for political means. No doubt there are excessive verdicts and that this is a problem. But there is no easy answer. If you put a cap, people who suffered egregious damages as a result of negligence are going to get screwed. And the threat of these verdicts does have some value. If you take away this threat, what is the unintended consequence? Perhaps working doctors even harder and longer?
| 414 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:22:23am |
re: #411 Spenser (with an S)
Morning, BC. Frost two counties N of us this am. August.
Oh, that doesn't end well. With the late crop seasons here in the Midwest due to the heavy spring rains, it's already going to be a close call to get them out of the ground before the frost.
| 415 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:22:23am |
re: #393 iceweasel
Hey lazardo-- how so? How do you find it more bureaucratic?
Also, how could any health reform on such a scale be less so?
(not snarking, genuinely interested)
A lot of the money for this will come from small businesses and individuals without what is deemed adequate coverage by a committee which IIRC does not seem to include a lot of people in the medical/insurance industry. In a time of economic peril it does not seem economically sound to put any more hindrances on revival than there already are.
Healthcare reform of this manner on this broad a scale can't be any less bureaucratic, which is why I agree with a number of other members' suggestions on how the system can be reformed first before "proper" healthcare reform can go through.
| 416 |
JamesTKirk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:22:52am |
re: #68 BatGuano
BTW, I think Titanic was the worst 200 million dollar movie in the history of 200 million dollar movies (yeah, I've had a couple of Nehi's and I'm looking for trouble).
I expended a great deal of effort in the avoidance of this movie. I've never seen more than about ten minutes of it.
| 417 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:23:28am |
re: #409 reine.de.tout
What I think a lot of this boils down to is some folks want to make it a "right" to make others pay for their coverage.
I don't think this is at all the case, though it is what some would have everyone believe, so that nothing at all is done.
| 418 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:23:54am |
re: #416 JamesTKirk
I expended a great deal of effort in the avoidance of this movie. I've never seen more than about ten minutes of it.
You're not missing much.
| 419 |
Van Helsing Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:24:11am |
re: #412 Diego
So, you don't think people who are insured are denied care every day all across the country and die as a consequence? Really?
And you don't think those who insurance refuse to cover because they were once sick don't die every day across this country lacking the care they could have had?
Do you really believe this??
Do you really believe it would be any different with the taxpayer funded option? Unlimited medical care for all? Did you miss the list of the different new bureaucracies HR 3200 would create?
Will rationing be OK because at least the taxpayer funded option won't make a profit?
| 420 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:24:18am |
re: #416 JamesTKirk
The sinking part is excellent. Last 20 minutes, go ahead and turn it off. But, definately, watch the sinking.
| 421 |
opnion Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:24:26am |
re: #379 Diego
Incorrect. They will only provide emergency care. If you need anything else, not their problem.
You have just described the "Urban Health care Initiative" run by Michelle Obama at the University of Chicago Medical Center. They would stabilize the uninsured & dump them somewhere else. If you did not need even that , they put you in a cab or on a bus.
But, she cares.
| 422 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:25:19am |
re: #68 BatGuano
BTW, I think Titanic was the worst 200 million dollar movie in the history of 200 million dollar movies (yeah, I've had a couple of Nehi's and I'm looking for trouble).
Is that you, Radar?
| 423 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:25:20am |
re: #416 JamesTKirk
Two things I still can't freaking believe about Titanic:
1. $1 billion box office hit.
2. It wouldn't be the first movie starring DiCaprio and Winslet.
| 424 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:25:48am |
re: #411 Spenser (with an S)
Morning, BC. Frost two counties N of us this am. August.
Not quite that cold here in T.O. Should be almost frost like further north though. I think it's time to start shopping for some warm winter boots, long johns, gloves...
| 427 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:26:22am |
re: #413 Flyers1974
If you put a cap, people who suffered egregious damages as a result of negligence are going to get screwed.
Say the cap is a million dollars on the punative side (I'm not talking about the amounts for continued care). How is someone screwed?
| 428 |
JamesTKirk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:26:32am |
re: #89 iceweasel
KLAATU BARACKA NIKTO!
"I got it, I got it! I know your damned words!" -Ash
Great movie, and Bruce Campbell is a great guy.
| 429 |
Coracle Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:26:38am |
re: #423 laZardo
Two things I still can't freaking believe about Titanic:
1. $1 billion box office hit.
2. It wouldn't be the first movie starring DiCaprio and Winslet.
2a. In bed, even.
| 430 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:26:45am |
re: #419 Van Helsing
taxpayer funded option? Unlimited medical care for all..
That isn't even on the table. It's a straw man.
| 432 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:26:56am |
re: #412 Diego
And you don't think those who insurance refuse to cover because they were once sick don't die every day across this country lacking the care they could have had?
This is profoundly simplistic. If you have been diagnosed with a disease and if you then left a plan and then you sign back up for a plan you will probably be refused. You need a charity or a govt. program, not insurance. Insurance is a spreadable pool of risk, you will need 10's of thousands of $ in treatment before your first premium payment is cashed.
Now, if we want to talk about portability, I'm right there with you. There is no reason to tie health insurance to your employer the way we have.
| 433 |
yochanan Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:27:07am |
re: #413 Flyers1974
nice democrat talking point you got there since the 'liers' give the majority of there gelt to the donks the donks will do nothing on tort reform
it isn't just the cost of malpractice, it is the added CYA tests that cost as well as the extra cost of medical ins. the docs have to take which is offen well over a 100,000$ a year. well if you only talk about direct costs and convently forget about the secondary costs.
| 434 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:27:23am |
re: #405 Spenser (with an S)
It's in the same link as the story of all the doctors who amputate limbs and cut out tonsils so they can go to Vegas with their girlfriends.
/
Second hand personal anecdote from lib relative:
A Canadian tourist had a heart attack in Florida and was rushed to hospital, where he made an excellent recovery after receiving intensive care and then immediate heart surgery.
The lucky bastard is now disputing the bill on the basis that his Canadian doctor told him that he probably could have deferred the surgery until he got back to Canada, where he could have had the same surgery for free.
The nerve of this asshole and his moronic doctor is breathtaking.
| 435 |
Flyers1974 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:27:55am |
re: #361 laZardo
Define "negligence."
/hence the need for tort reform.
The failure to use reasonable care. In a medmal case, failure to follow the accepted standards (depending on the state of course.) But to recover in a tort case, you also need causation between this failure to use reasonable care and the damage which occurred. You can have all the f-ups you want, but if they didn't cause the death or injury, no recovery.
| 436 |
VioletTiger Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:28:02am |
re: #412 Diego
So, you don't think people who are insured are denied care every day all across the country and die as a consequence? Really?
And you don't think those who insurance refuse to cover because they were once sick don't die every day across this country lacking the care they could have had?
Do you really believe this??
Diego,
If you believe it, prove it.
You have made some really outrageous statements with no facts to back them up.
For the record, I don't expect insurance companies to deny reasonable and customary care. They may deny experimental treatments. I accept this and expect that if I ever want to try such care, I will have to pay for it.
Do you really expect Obamacare to pay for things that private insurance won't pay for now?
| 437 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:28:17am |
re: #417 Diego
I don't think this is at all the case, though it is what some would have everyone believe, so that nothing at all is done.
Diego - that was a response to an excerpt from an article that 3-wood posted.
Now, as to the idea that "nothing at all is done" -
I've posted it twice thus far.
An alternate to "universal" health care. A system of Charity Hospitals, the model for which exists right here in Louisiana where I live.
Care for the uninsured/underinsured, while I get to keep whatever insurance I want, and the entire healthcare system in the US isn't turned upside down.
Amazing that this alternate keeps being ignored by many of you touting "universal healthcare" as the be-all, end-all.
| 438 |
Middle-Earth Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:28:21am |
| 439 |
JamesTKirk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:28:22am |
re: #111 BatGuano
Dark Star was also very good.
Updinged because no one else did, and I can't believe no one else knows Dark Star.
| 440 |
yochanan Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:28:29am |
re: #416 JamesTKirk
I expended a great deal of effort in the avoidance of this movie. I've never seen more than about ten minutes of it.
any and all 'star dreck' movies should be added to this list.
| 441 |
Coracle Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:28:43am |
re: #431 taxfreekiller
spin, spin, spin...
Good idea, let's spin the tfk wheel of blame...
...kerry...fdr...the bums in congress...Aha! Global warming! That's why.
| 442 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:29:45am |
re: #435 Flyers1974
Death or injury in the immediate, short- or long-term? And what defines these time periods?
[not sarc, please go on]
| 443 |
Flyers1974 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:30:25am |
re: #427 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Say the cap is a million dollars on the punative side (I'm not talking about the amounts for continued care). How is someone screwed?
A young person who is rendered disabled for life - cannot work, cannot walk, have sex, etc... And admittedly, I doubt these types of cases are common.
| 444 |
JamesTKirk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:31:40am |
re: #407 MandyManners
My favorite line from that movie is probably "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
| 446 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:31:49am |
re: #436 VioletTiger
For the record, I don't expect insurance companies to deny reasonable and customary care.
And yet they do, every day. Do some research, look it up. read the stories of people who became ill and found they had no coverage or were priced out of the market.
And this before yearly caps and lifetime caps.
And all that before you get to those who have lost their job.
| 447 |
JamesTKirk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:31:59am |
re: #440 yochanan
any and all 'star dreck' movies should be added to this list.
Now you're just being mean.
| 448 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:32:39am |
re: #446 Diego
And yet they do, every day. Do some research, look it up. read the stories of people who became ill and found they had no coverage or were priced out of the market.
And this before yearly caps and lifetime caps.
And all that before you get to those who have lost their job.
Diego - if this is what you are asserting, then my friend, you are expected to do the research and provide the links.
| 449 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:32:42am |
re: #443 Flyers1974
I hope they're not common. But, if it did happen. What is it worth. Put a price on it. is 30 million enough? Of course not. 300 million? Nope.
A line needs to be drawn. I don't know where, but it needs to be drawn.
| 450 |
yochanan Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:33:14am |
re: #447 JamesTKirk
not just current or past ones but all ones made in the future as well
| 451 |
Van Helsing Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:34:04am |
re: #430 Diego
That isn't even on the table. It's a straw man.
When did that fall over the table? The 'public otion' is no longer on the table?
When did that happen?
Sometime after our exchange last night?
| 452 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:34:09am |
re: #437 reine.de.tout
If you're talking about a working public safety net then it sounds like a reasonable solution. It's just the premise of the Charity system, being the "public option," publicly funded and helping the uninsured is practically an endorsement for a full government healthcare system.
/just sayin.
| 455 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:34:53am |
re: #446 Diego
Okay, how many hundreds of people does this apply to compared to how many million that have insurance? Those that squawk loudest are heard most often.
| 456 |
JamesTKirk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:35:36am |
re: #159 Fenway_Nation
The people who unambiguously hate the United States of America were glad that 0bama won the election.
It didn't help Walter Mondale when he was endorsed by the Soviet Union.
| 457 |
opnion Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:35:56am |
re: #446 Diego
And yet they do, every day. Do some research, look it up. read the stories of people who became ill and found they had no coverage or were priced out of the market.
And this before yearly caps and lifetime caps.
And all that before you get to those who have lost their job.
You're are confusing two different things, Reasonable & customary is to cap physician fees, say at the 80th percentile.
It has nothing to do with coveraage or medical nesessity.
| 458 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:35:59am |
re: #452 laZardo
If you're talking about a working public safety net then it sounds like a reasonable solution. It's just the premise of the Charity system, being the "public option," publicly funded and helping the uninsured is practically an endorsement for a full government healthcare system.
/just sayin.
Nope.
I get to keep my insurance. This system folds into the existing system - it doesn't take the existing system and turn it on its head. And it doesn't require 1000 pages of legislation.
| 459 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:36:10am |
re: #451 Van Helsing
The 'public option' is only an insurance program. People join it, pay their dues, get care. It's not single-payer, which is what you describe it as.
| 460 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:37:15am |
re: #436 VioletTiger
Do you really expect Obamacare to pay for things that private insurance won't pay for now?
"Do you expect me to pay, Obama?"
"No, Mr. Taxpayer... I expect you to die!"
/evil Bond villain laugh
| 461 |
Van Helsing Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:37:16am |
re: #455 BlueCanuck
Okay, how many hundreds of people does this apply to compared to how many million that have insurance? Those that squawk loudest are heard most often.
Sadly, there will never be a perfect solution that will address every inequity in the insurance/healthcare industry.
So millions need to deal with disruption to address the problems of hundreds...
I'm not seeing it.
| 462 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:37:27am |
re: #456 JamesTKirk
"I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience."
Zing!
| 463 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:38:15am |
re: #460 Spenser (with an S)
"Do you expect me to pay, Obama?"
"No, Mr. Taxpayer... I expect you to die!"
/evil Bond villain laugh
And the laser takes several months to actually get to the victim's cataract. That's evil.
| 464 |
VioletTiger Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:38:35am |
re: #446 Diego
And yet they do, every day. Do some research, look it up. read the stories of people who became ill and found they had no coverage or were priced out of the market.
And this before yearly caps and lifetime caps.
And all that before you get to those who have lost their job.
You made the claim--you do the research. You need to back it up what you post.
| 465 |
opnion Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:39:41am |
re: #449 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I hope they're not common. But, if it did happen. What is it worth. Put a price on it. is 30 million enough? Of course not. 300 million? Nope.
A line needs to be drawn. I don't know where, but it needs to be drawn.
People have a right to compensation if harmed by the malpractice of a doctor. But how much? Juries are out of control & the lawyers exploit it.
Further the 'Ordinary, Reasonable Person" standard is ignored.
It is enough just to show that the plaintiff was damaged & the doc takes the fall.
| 466 |
JamesTKirk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:39:54am |
re: #212 Cannadian Club Akbar
Ice isn't the devil. I dated the devil.
Me too. And danced with her in the pale moonlight.
| 467 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:40:20am |
re: #451 Van Helsing
When did that fall over the table? The 'public otion' is no longer on the table?
When did that happen?
Sometime after our exchange last night?
Ice tries this all the time, too. Universal coverage and the Public Option were most certainly on the table until the outcry. It is disingenuous to say otherwise.
"The fire didn't burn down the building"
"Because the fire dept. got there, not because it didn't want to".
| 468 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:40:21am |
re: #449 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I hope they're not common. But, if it did happen. What is it worth. Put a price on it. is 30 million enough? Of course not. 300 million? Nope.
A line needs to be drawn. I don't know where, but it needs to be drawn.
Do the US Courts allow jury awards of punitive damages against doctors in cases of medical malpractice if the doctor has not been proven to have acted in a competely reckless fashion or with complete disregard for the patient?
I doubt it, but if they do then that might be a good place to draw the line.
| 469 |
Flyers1974 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:40:24am |
re: #442 laZardo
Death or injury in the immediate, short- or long-term? And what defines these time periods?
[not sarc, please go on]
The court would consider the injury as it is and also the medical experts (both Plaintiff and Defense experts) testimony as regards the entire future. So if the court were convinced that the injury would cause death prematurely by 20 years they would take that into account. Now if the experts prediction and resulting verdict are wrong, too bad too sad. For example, if the person doesn't die when predicted, no money gets returned. Likewise, If the Plaintiff loses on account of his experts not being believed, but they are indeed right and the guy dies 20 years prematurely, he/she is SOL.
| 470 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:40:27am |
| 471 |
JamesTKirk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:41:07am |
| 472 |
Truck Monkey Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:41:24am |
All this talk about healthcare/insurance reform. What about food reform. What could be a more basic right than the right to eat? Food should be free in this country.
/I am also going to start agitating for a free house. One at a time.
| 473 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:41:49am |
re: #461 Van Helsing
There are a few problems with insurance companies. One of the biggest ones is that they have become super cynical and skeptical about large claims. Why is that? The reason is that a collection of useful idiots on the basis that insurance companies are rich and exploitable try to defraud them continously. So the insurance company will hire lawyers, private detectives, requisition paper work etc. etc. Insurance companies will pay out with no problems if the person filing a claim is straight up from the get go.
| 474 |
Truck Monkey Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:42:51am |
| 475 |
opnion Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:43:25am |
re: #459 Diego
The 'public option' is only an insurance program. People join it, pay their dues, get care. It's not single-payer, which is what you describe it as.
You don't think that it willl morph into Single Payer, which BHO said publicly in 2003 that he wanted?
If you are an employer , will you select a private plan or the subsidized Public Option that may be be 40% less in premiums?
Private coverage will not be able to compete & the public option proponents know that.
| 476 |
Van Helsing Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:43:29am |
re: #459 Diego
The 'public option' is only an insurance program. People join it, pay their dues, get care. It's not single-payer, which is what you describe it as.
OK. This plan then will provide services that current for-profit insurance companies don't? It will remain solvent based solely on premiums paid?
And provide better coverage...
I'm just not seeing the economic viability in that model.
| 477 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:43:39am |
Coverage Denied: How the Current Health Insurance System Leaves Millions Behind“Pre-Existing Conditions” Affect Millions of Americans
A large proportion of Americans have health conditions that insurance companies can qualify as “pre-existing conditions.”
A pre-existing condition is a medical condition that existed before someone applies for or enrolls in a new health insurance policy. It can be something as prevalent as heart disease – which affects one in three adults – or something as life-changing as cancer, which affects 11 million Americans.
But a pre-existing condition does not have to be a serious disease like cancer or heart disease. Even relatively minor conditions like hay fever, asthma, or previous sports injuries can trigger high premiums or denials of coverage.
Unattainable Health CoverageInsurance discrimination based on pre-existing conditions makes adequate health insurance unavailable to millions of Americans.
In 45 states across the country, insurance companies can discriminate against people based on their pre-existing conditions when they try to purchase health insurance directly from insurance companies in the individual insurance market. Insurers can deny them coverage, charge higher premiums, and/or refuse to cover that particular medical condition.
A recent national survey estimated that 12.6 million non-elderly adults5 – 36 percent of those who tried to purchase health insurance directly from an insurance company in the individual insurance market – were in fact discriminated against because of a pre-existing condition in the previous three years.
In another survey, one in 10 people with cancer said they could not obtain health coverage, and six percent said they lost their coverage, because of being diagnosed with the disease.
It is still legal in nine states for insurers to reject applicants who are survivors of domestic violence, citing the history of domestic violence as a pre-existing condition.
Even when offering coverage, insurers can exclude whole categories of illnesses related to a pre-existing condition. For example, someone with a pre-existing condition of hay fever could have any respiratory system disease – such as bronchitis or pneumonia – excluded from coverage.9
Losing Coverage When You Need It MostThousands of Americans also lose health insurance each year through a practice called rescission.
When a person is diagnosed with an expensive condition such as cancer, some insurance companies review his/her initial health status questionnaire. In most states’ individual insurance market, insurance companies can retroactively cancel the entire policy if any condition was missed – even if the medical condition is unrelated, and even if the person was not aware of the condition at the time. Coverage can also be revoked for all members of a family, even if only one family member failed to disclose a medical condition.
A recent Congressional investigation into this practice found nearly 20,000 rescissions from three large insurers over five years, saving them $300 million in medical claims – $300 million that instead had to come out of the pockets of people who thought they were insured, or became bad debt for health care providers.
At least one insurance company has been found to evaluate employee performance based in part on the amount of money an employee saved the company through rescissions. Simply put, these insurance company employees are encouraged to revoke sick people’s health coverage.
[Link: www.healthreform.gov...]
Sources: [Link: www.healthreform.gov...]
| 478 |
VioletTiger Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:46:10am |
re: #477 Diego
Be serious.
Next you are going to link to Move On and Organizing for America.
Facts, not propaganda.
| 479 |
Van Helsing Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:46:25am |
re: #467 Spenser (with an S)
Ice tries this all the time, too. Universal coverage and the Public Option were most certainly on the table until the outcry. It is disingenuous to say otherwise.
"The fire didn't burn down the building""Because the fire dept. got there, not because it didn't want to".
POTUS is already on record as saying single payer is where he wants the country to be.
I don't share his vision and don't want to start down that path.
This is America. Don't copy EU models. Do something different and truly innovative to solve the problem.
| 481 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:49:14am |
re: #477 Diego
Hmmm, even the "sources" appear to be biased against insurance companies. A lot of .gov links and organizations there.
| 482 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:49:20am |
Also, on the Tort thingy... Is "perceived negligence" necessarily "negligence"?
| 483 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:49:36am |
re: #478 VioletTiger
Facts, not propaganda.
Check the sources. "It's from the government, it's a lie!" is a tin foil hat stance.
| 484 |
Gang of One Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:50:12am |
Morning everyone! A cool but humid 65°F here in beautiful Englewood, NJ, the city that rejected the Q'daffy.
Going in to my office at school to tie up some loose ends and speak to a few colleagues and peers about the non-existent curriculum for SocStud and English [yay, public schools!], and get my head wired to my butt -- faculty and staff report tomorrow AM and students first day is on Weds.
My vacation is definitely over.
And you?
| 485 |
VioletTiger Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:50:21am |
re: #483 Diego
Check the sources. "It's from the government, it's a lie!" is a tin foil hat stance.
This is a biased link.
Pure and simple.
| 486 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:50:21am |
And besides, the complaint is about purchasing health insurance as an individual, not a group plan.
| 487 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:50:38am |
re: #477 Diego
My wife had a $70k procedure done 2 weeks after we had switched from one carrier to another. I didn't even have the new cards yet and was terrified. Their 90% was paid without a squawk, however, because we were moving from one qualified plan to another. Now, can we talk about how to lower costs for all to make those horrible "gap periods" less likely to happen?
| 488 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:51:02am |
re: #477 Diego
Where are the actual numbers of people going without treatment? That article is making certain claims - where is the research that backs up those claims?
| 489 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:51:27am |
| 490 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:51:35am |
re: #483 Diego
Check the sources. "It's from the government, it's a lie!" is a tin foil hat stance.
When has the government ever told us the full truth? When ever any side is in power? Always question, always.
| 491 |
JamesTKirk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:51:58am |
re: #450 yochanan
not just current or past ones but all ones made in the future as well
With all the flippin' time travel, all of them are past, present, and future. Tom Smith wrote a great song about the overuse of time travel plots in Star Trek (which isn't online, unfortunately).
| 492 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:52:41am |
Do I look like a numbers wank? Have I talked to everyone in those situations?
Okay, I've not lost my job and I don't know anyone who has, so I guess no one is loosing their jobs and nothing needs done. Neat!
| 493 |
Van Helsing Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:53:11am |
re: #487 Spenser (with an S)
My wife had a $70k procedure done 2 weeks after we had switched from one carrier to another. I didn't even have the new cards yet and was terrified. Their 90% was paid without a squawk, however, because we were moving from one qualified plan to another. Now, can we talk about how to lower costs for all to make those horrible "gap periods" less likely to happen?
That sir, would simply be addressing the problem and not promoting an agenda.
It is not open for discussion.
/
Now its time to get ready for work. Have fun kids.
| 494 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:53:20am |
re: #490 BlueCanuck
When has the government ever told us the full truth? When ever any side is in power? Always question, always.
Cmon, libs would have completely bought your argument on going to war with Iraq if you had linked to GWB@getSaddam.gov.
| 495 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:53:27am |
re: #492 Diego
Now you're getting into straw man territory. I don't think anyone has denied that the way our health insurance systems are tied to our jobs needs to be changed.
| 496 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:55:35am |
re: #495 thedopefishlives
No, but he has denied that insurance companies deny people coverage and care every day and that people die because of it. He told me to prove it, I say look it up, he says that's my job.
Deny it all you like, it could well be you are next. That is the nature of profit driven health care.
| 497 |
JamesTKirk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:55:52am |
re: #490 BlueCanuck
When has the government ever told us the full truth? When ever any side is in power? Always question, always.
I question your authority to tell me to question.
| 498 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:56:26am |
re: #495 thedopefishlives
I think a lot of things need to be changed. I think the regulations need to change to allow the private sector to come up with solutions.
I think the private sector can make healthcare reform work. The government is not always the solution.
See y'all in a bit.
| 500 |
VioletTiger Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:58:33am |
re: #492 Diego
Do I look like a numbers wank? Have I talked to everyone in those situations?
Okay, I've not lost my job and I don't know anyone who has, so I guess no one is loosing their jobs and nothing needs done. Neat!
You are missing the point.
If you make general comments on this board, expect us to fact check your behind. That's especially true for comments like this.
| 501 |
Van Helsing Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:58:52am |
Parting shot -
I have heard through the years that 'you can't legislate morality' and yet Obama is now appealing to our 'moral obligation' to pass this crap.
Interesting.
re: #496 Diego
I believe what was called into question were the numbers of those problems which would help define the scope of the problem and thus help focus on possible solutions.
| 502 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:59:02am |
Thousands of Americans also lose health insurance each year through a practice called rescission.
How many thousands? Where is the data backing this up?
When a person is diagnosed with an expensive condition such as cancer, some insurance companies review his/her initial health status questionnaire. In most states’ individual insurance market, insurance companies can retroactively cancel the entire policy if any condition was missed – even if the medical condition is unrelated, and even if the person was not aware of the condition at the time. Coverage can also be revoked for all members of a family, even if only one family member failed to disclose a medical condition.
This describes what insurance companies "can" do. Where is the data indicating how many people are affected by any of this happening?
At least one insurance company has been found to evaluate employee performance based in part on the amount of money an employee saved the company through rescissions. Simply put, these insurance company employees are encouraged to revoke sick people’s health coverage.
One insurance company? And these employees "are encouraged" by whom? Again, data backing up this claim is where?
| 503 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:59:08am |
re: #497 JamesTKirk
I question your authority to tell me to question.
I have no authority. I was strongly suggesting. :)
/unlike you who are very suggestive...
| 504 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:59:47am |
re: #499 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Another straw man argument. No one said they couldn't make a profit, but it's hardly right that profit is their primary concern, not health.
| 505 |
Van Helsing Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:00:11am |
re: #499 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Profit is bad, mkay.
Yeah, Diego has issues with profit. That was mentioned last night as well.
| 506 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:00:54am |
re: #492 Diego
Do I look like a numbers wank? Have I talked to everyone in those situations?
Okay, I've not lost my job and I don't know anyone who has, so I guess no one is loosing their jobs and nothing needs done. Neat!
Diego- if you are making certain claims, we will want to see the data upon which you base those claims. It's simple.
Otherwise, we are simply in "you say-I say" territory.
| 507 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:01:00am |
When profit comes at the cost of care, damn right I have a problem with it!
| 508 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:02:33am |
re: #507 Diego
When profit comes at the cost of care, damn right I have a problem with it!
Funny, I have never seen any insurance company as alturistic. I always thought they were out to make a profit? With them it's a numbers game, and the house always wins. Great places to hold investments in don't you think?
| 509 |
_RememberTonyC Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:02:39am |
Victor Davis Hanson on Ted Kennedy ...
[Link: www.victorhanson.com...]
Nobody does it better than the great VDH ...
| 510 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:03:39am |
re: #507 Diego
When profit comes at the cost of care, damn right I have a problem with it!
So . . . doctors should offer their services free? And how do they feed their families?
Hospitals should offer their services free? And companies should donate equipment?
Or do you think contractors should offer their services free for upgrading? And how are the materials purchased?
What do you think happens with "profits"?
| 511 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:04:43am |
re: #510 reine.de.tout
Every 'argument' you put up is made of straw.
| 512 |
Coracle Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:05:15am |
re: #502 reine.de.tout
One insurance company? And these employees "are encouraged" by whom? Again, data backing up this claim is where?
Blue Cross largest insurer in CA. And it took a congressional hearing to expose it past denials. And it's not the only only one mentioned in the article. Do you think it's the only insurer engaged in that particular practice?
| 513 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:06:54am |
re: #511 Diego
Every 'argument' you put up is made of straw.
OOOkay.
I'm still awaiting the research to back up the various and sundry claims made in your 477.
| 514 |
Gang of One Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:07:00am |
re: #504 Diego
Another straw man argument. No one said they couldn't make a profit, but it's hardly right that profit is their primary concern, not health.
Insurance companies are a business, albeit a gambling, risk-pool business; they make a profit or they close their doors. Doctors are the people who do 'health'.
/C'mon.
| 515 |
Gang of One Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:08:07am |
re: #507 Diego
When profit comes at the cost of care, damn right I have a problem with it!
Then your issues are with care-givers, not insurance companies.
| 516 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:08:20am |
re: #514 Gang of One
That must be why they call it 'health' insurance..
| 517 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:09:39am |
re: #510 reine.de.tout
What do you think happens with "profits"?
Where do libs think all future innovations and discoveries in drugs and medical devices will take place? I don't understand this. It's because they are for profit that we've reached the level of care we have.
| 518 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:11:05am |
There's been a pothole in our street at work.
Had been getting worse for months and finally the neighbor and I grabbed a few bags of sacrete and filled it in as best we could.
Government is slow and cumbersome, built around bureaucracy and paperwork, much more so than private companies, who have a customer base to satisfy. There are problems for sure, but we've jumped from the basic problem to it's ALL bad, and that simply is not true.
I would not want my health trusted to such nonsense, and see this as nothing but a power grab. 1/6 of the economy to people who can't even get rebate checks for cars out in a timely fashion.
I'm happy with our healthcare plan.
Just me.
| 519 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:11:07am |
re: #516 Diego
You can't really be this thick, can you? Putting the word "health" into a business's description doesn't automatically mean it has to discard all ideas of profit. If it did, fully half the country's businesses would be not-for-profit, I'd wager.
| 520 |
Escaped Hillbilly Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:11:38am |
re: #477 Diego Ok, gotta jump on this one...My son was BORN with cancer (very rare) and he was NOT denied insurance. When I left the military, I had to pay for insurance. I was up front with the provider. They referred me to a "high risk" option, cost a bit more ($15 a month more), and he couldn't receive care for cancer until he could prove he had been symptom free for 3 years. These were reasonable limits in my mind. If I wanted to spend even more they would have immediately provided full coverage without the wait period. I have had my fill of government run medical insurance boondoggles. Please stick to enforcing reasonable laws and the standards established by the AMA et al.
| 521 |
Gang of One Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:12:07am |
re: #516 Diego
That must be why they call it 'health' insurance..
That's also why they call it 'car' insurance and 'life' insurance, yada, yada, yada. They are betting you, the policy holder that you won't need the money to fix your car, pay your widow, etc. What is it you fail to grasp? Health insurance is not about making you well; it's about supplying the monies in the event you need medical attention.
| 522 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:13:48am |
Good morning y'all - from a chilly (64 degrees, going up to 72 degrees) rainy Charlottte! I know 64 and 72 isn't really "chilly" but it sure feels cold to me after about 75 days of 85-97 degree high temps!.
We are doing ok today, how are y'all doing?
| 523 |
Areozol Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:14:18am |
A new paranoia is being spread through Internet; the eeevil WHO is going to exterminate humanity by vaccines containing heavy metals and nano-RFID chips.
(just spotted on some blogs)
| 525 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:14:23am |
Diego:
You have basically insulted me here:
re: #417 Diego
and here:
re: #511 Diego
and you have ignored and not commented on an alternative method of providing service that I linked to here:
re: #325 reine.de.tout
And in your 477 you linked to an article making all sorts of claims about "thousands" of people with no information as to how the "thousands" number was derived.
Are you really looking to discuss ways health CARE can be provided to people, or are you simply trying to convince everyone here that Obamacare is the ONLY way to go?
| 526 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:14:27am |
re: #522 realwest
Good morning y'all - from a chilly (64 degrees, going up to 72 degrees) rainy Charlottte! I know 64 and 72 isn't really "chilly" but it sure feels cold to me after about 75 days of 85-97 degree high temps!.
We are doing ok today, how are y'all doing?
Morning {real}. I'm doing okay, trying to get along now that my '94 Chevy has been confirmed KIA. Tore out the third gear and made a mess of the transmission, apparently.
| 527 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:14:56am |
Insurance companies should not be allowed to deny care, drop care or raise rates through the roof when you get sick. They should not be allowed to place a cap on care. They should not be allowed to delay care until it's 'too late'. These things needs fixed and an insurance pool for those who can not get insurance needs put in place. This is what I find, IMHO, needs done. Plain and simple, it is what is in the works and it couldn't happen fast enough (as if 60 years is fast) for me.
| 529 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:16:21am |
re: #523 Areozol
A new paranoia is being spread through Internet; the eeevil WHO is going to exterminate humanity by vaccines containing heavy metals and nano-RFID chips.
(just spotted on some blogs)
I will not listen to this rumor unless you can show me topless pics of a Playmate to convince me it is valid science.
//
| 530 |
JamesTKirk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:16:24am |
re: #527 Diego
Insurance companies should not be allowed to deny care, drop care ... place a cap on care ... delay care until it's 'too late'.
Funny, those are all the things that government-run health care does.
| 531 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:17:05am |
Morning realwest. Sounds like you have our temperatures today. At least the sun is shining brightly.
| 532 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:17:59am |
re: #527 Diego
Hmmm, things that our Government run Healthcare does up here all the time. Fancy that.
| 533 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:18:58am |
re: #523 Areozol
A new paranoia is being spread through Internet; the eeevil WHO is going to exterminate humanity by vaccines containing heavy metals and nano-RFID chips.
AND THE SURVIVORS WILL BE ABLE TO PARTY ONNN!
/whooo~
| 534 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:19:07am |
re: #525 reine.de.tout
Good morning reine - I must say you seem to have the patience of a Saint here.
It would appear from the links to his prior comments that he's just looking to PUSH for Obamacare. Let 'em go is my advice, relax and enjoy your day!
| 536 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:19:30am |
| 537 |
VioletTiger Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:20:24am |
re: #527 Diego
Insurance companies should not be allowed to deny care, drop care or raise rates through the roof when you get sick. They should not be allowed to place a cap on care. They should not be allowed to delay care until it's 'too late'. These things needs fixed and an insurance pool for those who can not get insurance needs put in place. This is what I find, IMHO, needs done. Plain and simple, it is what is in the works and it couldn't happen fast enough (as if 60 years is fast) for me.
You can't support your arguments, so you revert to your talking points.
| 538 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:20:42am |
Mr. 12,050,624 ? The doctor will see you now.
What ?
When did this happen ?
4 months ago ?
OK, have a nice day.
| 539 |
SixDegrees Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:20:49am |
re: #294 Diego
So, how things are going now is just fine to you? You don't see a problem? There isn't anything to solve? Those without insurance are just fine and dandy??
I'm not saying you have said these things, but I'd be interested to know where you think we are, and where you think we're going if nothing is done.
It seems as though you're much more interested in putting words in my mouth and starting a fight over them. Sorry, but I have to go play with the adults now.
| 540 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:21:33am |
re: #526 thedopefishlives
Morning {real}. I'm doing okay, trying to get along now that my '94 Chevy has been confirmed KIA. Tore out the third gear and made a mess of the transmission, apparently.
Ah, good morning {thedopefish} - so you're basically saying that as you were runing down the road, you "littered" with bits and pieces of your transmission?!
IS it too late for a Cash for Clunkers deal? We got dealers down here who say they'll give you at least
$4,500 for ANY car you can get into their lots!!
| 541 |
JamesTKirk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:21:45am |
re: #539 SixDegrees
Sorry, but I have to go play with the adults now.
In bed.
/Sorry, couldn't resist, I'm outta here, bye...
| 542 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:22:39am |
I'm not pushing for anything. I'm simply having dialog.
You can have as much or as little health care as you like and/or can afford.
| 543 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:22:42am |
re: #540 realwest
How ya doing this AM, real ?
Nice to see you.
| 544 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:23:03am |
re: #536 Diego
Reine didn't ask for a band-aid or an apology, just for you to not make personal, jackassy remarks while trying to make your points.
| 545 |
FrogMarch Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:23:45am |
Harry "this war is lost" Reid says to Las Vegas Newspaper:
"I hope you go out of business."
But to fully capture the magnitude of Reid's remark (and to stop him from doing the same thing to others) it must be called what it was -- a full-on threat perpetrated by a bully who has forgotten that he was elected to office to protect Nevadans, not sound like he's shaking them down.
No citizen should expect this kind of behavior from a U.S. senator. It is certainly not becoming of a man who is the majority leader in the U.S. Senate. And it absolutely is not what anyone would expect from a man who now asks Nevadans to send him back to the Senate for a fifth term.
I'm sorry sir, but Harry Reid has a (D) behind his name. He's supposed to be a corrupt asshole; and he's supposed to get away with it, and you are supposed to help him.
| 546 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:23:51am |
re: #531 BlueCanuck
Hey Blue! Yeah, in additon to getting cooler we are now also MUCH wetter (and the forecast is for rains, heavy at times, for the next 48 hours at least!). Well, at least we get to end our mini-drought with this rain!
How are y'all today?
| 547 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:23:53am |
re: #534 realwest
Good morning reine - I must say you seem to have the patience of a Saint here.
It would appear from the links to his prior comments that he's just looking to PUSH for Obamacare. Let 'em go is my advice, relax and enjoy your day!
{realwest}
You are so sweet!
| 548 |
Gang of One Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:24:23am |
re: #536 Diego
I insulted you? 1: how? 2: LOL
Want a bandaid??
Diego,
Take it form an old-timer who has spent more time reading than posting.
1. You seem willing to engage, and willing to learn. One rule is use facts.
2. Do not resort to snark or insults.
3. Remember that there is always room for being mistaken.
Now I really have to get moving.
| 549 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:24:31am |
re: #539 SixDegrees
Perhaps you missed the second sentence, you quoted..
| 550 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:25:43am |
Am I too late for this morning's progressive indoctrination lecture?
/wouldn't want to miss any talking points or anything
| 551 |
Escaped Hillbilly Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:25:58am |
re: #527 Diego
This appears to be the problem in my mind, y'all can correct me as I'm not expert, but people have to sign a legally binding contract that spells out what conditions are excepted, limited, whenrates can be adjusted...etc. No? So you negotiate with you insurer (or hunt out a better one) to get the deal that works best for your unique situation. People don't like to keep the promises they make once they've signed on the dotted line. Or they don't read. If a company fails to meet their obligations as delimited, (use that right?) they can be sued. Otherwise, tough. They kept their end of the bargain.
| 552 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:26:31am |
I've not insulted anyone. I've tried to be very measured, and not employ sarcasm. Expressed disbelief of statements can be taken as sarcastic, but it's not the same.
| 553 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:26:43am |
re: #543 SasquatchOnSteroids Hello Sasquatch! I'm doing ok, a little cool and damp, but otherwise ok!
Good to see you, too! How are y'all doing today?
| 554 |
Ward Cleaver Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:27:25am |
re: #536 Diego
I insulted you? 1: how? 2: LOL
Want a bandaid??
If you keep that up, your time here will be short.
| 555 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:28:11am |
re: #536 Diego
I insulted you? 1: how? 2: LOL
Want a bandaid??
Ah. Insult/snark #3?
No, I don't want a bandaid, I will ask for one if I do.
| 556 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:28:12am |
re: #553 realwest
Hello Sasquatch! I'm doing ok, a little cool and damp, but otherwise ok!
Good to see you, too! How are y'all doing today?
Heh, took off work, a bit of a stomach ache.
Can't get too far from...the throne room...wait that might be TMI.
Doin' great !
| 557 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:28:40am |
re: #540 realwest
Ah, good morning {thedopefish} - so you're basically saying that as you were runing down the road, you "littered" with bits and pieces of your transmission?!
IS it too late for a Cash for Clunkers deal? We got dealers down here who say they'll give you at least
$4,500 for ANY car you can get into their lots!!
Not really, real, the truck just suddenly stopped shifting out of second. So I took it into the dealer and they said that they were showered with bits of transmission innards when they took it apart and it would cost upwards of $3500 to repair. So I'm trying to find a way to dispose of a truck with only two working gears. Know anyone that needs a nice snowplow? *grins*
| 558 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:29:39am |
re: #544 Spenser (with an S)
Reine didn't ask for a band-aid or an apology, just for you to not make personal, jackassy remarks while trying to make your points.
Merci!
| 559 |
Van Helsing Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:30:07am |
re: #527 Diego
Insurance companies should not be allowed to deny care, drop care or raise rates through the roof when you get sick. They should not be allowed to place a cap on care. They should not be allowed to delay care until it's 'too late'. These things needs fixed and an insurance pool for those who can not get insurance needs put in place. This is what I find, IMHO, needs done. Plain and simple, it is what is in the works and it couldn't happen fast enough (as if 60 years is fast) for me.
It takes a 1000 pages of cross-referenced near gibberish to address that?
Perhaps if the proposed solution was kept 'plain and simple' it would not be met with such revuslion resistance.
| 560 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:30:14am |
Well, you/he said I've insulted you/him when I only disagreed with you/him. How am I meant to react if not in utter disbelief?
| 561 |
Areozol Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:30:18am |
re: #529 Spenser (with an S)
I will not listen to this rumor unless you can show me topless pics of a Playmate to convince me it is valid science.
//
It's NOT a valid science - it's just another one stupid, even IMMORAL (remember the claims about autism, caused by vaccines?) gossip.
| 562 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:30:37am |
re: #557 thedopefishlives
Not really, real, the truck just suddenly stopped shifting out of second. So I took it into the dealer and they said that they were showered with bits of transmission innards when they took it apart and it would cost upwards of $3500 to repair. So I'm trying to find a way to dispose of a truck with only two working gears. Know anyone that needs a nice snowplow? *grins*
If the gears are slow and slower, the gubmint might buy it.
/Hey it could happen
Rotten luck.
| 563 |
rain of lead Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:31:15am |
| 564 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:32:54am |
re: #559 Van Helsing
I do not disagree. Perhaps the 160+ amendments the Republicans put into a bill they have no intention on voting for didn't help?
Strange to add to a bill so you can complain that it's too big and when you had no intention on voting for it in the first place.
| 565 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:35:36am |
re: #560 Diego
Well, you/he said I've insulted you/him when I only disagreed with you/him. How am I meant to react if not in utter disbelief?
1. Claiming that my response to a statement made by 3-wood was not made in good faith but made as a distraction (your #417) was an insult to me.
2. Claiming "straw-man" (your #511 I believe) - maybe so, maybe not, but if so, so what? Respond with something that will provide me with the information you think I need to have
And . . . you have indeed ignored and not commented on a way to handle the uninsured/underinsured that I have linked to 3 times here, while seeming to pursue the idea that only Obamacare is the answer.
I'm not out to fight with you. I have linked to an alternative that you have ignored, and your only comments to me have been to dismiss what I've said. If that's not insulting, I don't know what is.
| 566 |
Van Helsing Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:36:32am |
re: #564 Diego
I do not disagree. Perhaps the 160+ amendments the Republicans put into a bill they have no intention on voting for didn't help?
Strange to add to a bill so you can complain that it's too big and when you had no intention on voting for it in the first place.
Source? Because what I see is Energy-Commerce is a lot of proposed amendments that were voted down.
No snark - I'd like to review those 160+ amendments.
| 567 |
Ward Cleaver Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:39:36am |
Well, it looks like the Mt. Wilson tower cam is either down or being hammered by traffic. I checked it this morning about 6:50am CDT, and could see an image, but no image now. Lets' just hope the observatory hasn't been overrun by the Station fire.
| 568 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:39:44am |
re: #560 Diego
Well, even though you didn't ask me, I'm gonna repost something I put up last night (regulars will tell you I'm not at all reluctant to jump into the middle of what appears to be an ever growing fight discussion):
I just want to say a few things about healthcare reform or healthcare insurance reform.
First of all, the costs of delivery of health services MUST be reduced and most easily could be reduced with Tort Reform.
Secondly, the Government is ALREADY running health insurance plans - Medicare is the one (other than the VA which is a total fucking disgrace) I'm most familiar with. I currently pay 3.5 times the amount for medical attention, tests, and drugs than I did when I was on private healthcare insurance. Indeed, I'm currently paying 50% more than what I was paying private insurance that had been COBRA'd. And my health care insurance, plain and with COBRA premium was NOT based upon my cancer. Hell, even the co-pays are more under Medicare and the doctors, labs and hospitals (if they agree to take just Medicare - at 100% of what Medicare allows) all are compensated way below their normal charges, costs and fees by Medicare. And, to make matters worse, unless you have a dire medical situation it WILL take you longer to see a specialist under Medicare than under private medical insurance. And now, Social Security beneficiaries (including Social Security Disability Insurance recipients) will NOT for the first time EVER, receive a Cost of Living Allowance, but Medicare premiums are going up substantially.The Government has shown, just with Medicare, how truly unresponsive the Government is to patients, doctors, hospitals, lab and x-ray facilities and has increased costs itself by requiring doctors and hospitals to have administrative personnel JUST TO PROCESS THE PAPERWORK the GOVERNMENT REQUIRES.
And even at that, the Government is being ripped off because doctors are ordering tests, labs and x-rays EVEN WHEN THE DOCTOR doesn't believe they are necessary except to protect him or herself, or the hospital, from malpractice suits ("Why doctor, why didn't you have the patient get an MRI on that bruised forearm he had instead of just a "flat" x-ray?").
Health care is TOO important to society and to every single one of us (who is an American or at least legally here in America) to be left to the Government to run it. The mere fact that Senators, members of the House of Representatives and their staffs and certain union members WILL BE EXCEPT from the provisions of this bill is a major tell that THEY don't think the medical care will be worth a damn under this "reform" either.
| 569 |
3 wood Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:39:50am |
re: #379 Diego
Incorrect. They will only provide emergency care. If you need anything else, not their problem.
You did notice that I used the word "emergency", right? I used that word for a reason.
Of course, they are not going to give you a routine checkup at the emergency room. And if that is what you are looking for out of universal health care, you are going to have a rationing nightmare of a system.
I'm getting real close to concluding that you just want to argue.
| 570 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:40:37am |
re: #561 Areozol
re: #529 Spenser (with an S)I will not listen to this rumor unless you can show me topless pics of a Playmate to convince me it is valid science.
//
It's NOT a valid science - it's just another one stupid, even IMMORAL (remember the claims about autism, caused by vaccines?) gossip.
Um, did you see the //. That was a reference to Jenny McCarthy and her dangerous nonsense, not an actual request for topless pics.
| 571 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:40:43am |
re: #565 reine.de.tout
If you think you have better alternatives then that is fine. Call your congress critters and get them behind it. I'm sure they can write up a bill and present it.
I'm only on about that which is going through congress and the deceptions which it is currently met with.
Many of your arguments are straw men. I'm sorry if you find that insulting, but I do as well when I say something about health care being more about profits then care and you say I'm against profits and think hospitals and doctors should be expected to work for free.
| 572 |
3 wood Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:43:28am |
re: #395 MandyManners
I just loved the way the Bears handed the Broncos ass to them last night. The Kid was quite upset about Denver fans booing Cutler. I think the Broncos might've lost their No. one fan. What am I gonna' do with his memorabilia? With his No. 6 shirt?
The Broncos are a real bad team this year. The fans there better get used to booing, cause they are going to do a lot of it this year.
And Orton got hurt last night. They better get used to that too. He has an amazing ability to pick up dings and cuts and such.
| 573 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:45:13am |
re: #571 Diego
If you think you have better alternatives then that is fine. Call your congress critters and get them behind it. I'm sure they can write up a bill and present it.
I'm only on about that which is going through congress and the deceptions which it is currently met with.
Many of your arguments are straw men. I'm sorry if you find that insulting, but I do as well when I say something about health care being more about profits then care and you say I'm against profits and think hospitals and doctors should be expected to work for free.
Why is this person talking shit to people here?
| 574 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:46:12am |
re: #573 Walter L. Newton
Why is this person talking shit to people here?
He got butthurt because we called him out when he said he wants anything related to health care to be "more about care than profit".
| 575 |
FrogMarch Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:46:42am |
re: #395 MandyManners
I just loved the way the Bears handed the Broncos ass to them last night. The Kid was quite upset about Denver fans booing Cutler. I think the Broncos might've lost their No. one fan. What am I gonna' do with his memorabilia? With his No. 6 shirt?
Me too. And i live here!
| 576 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:47:15am |
re: #444 JamesTKirk
My favorite line from that movie is probably "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
In bed.
| 577 |
Areozol Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:47:42am |
re: #570 Spenser (with an S)
Um, did you see the //. That was a reference to Jenny McCarthy and her dangerous nonsense, not an actual request for topless pics.
Sorry, I did't noticed irony tags. :)
| 579 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:49:15am |
re: #565 reine.de.tout
Hi reine! Hope you're doing well today, except for your frustrating exchanges with Diego. You said:
"I'm not out to fight with you. I have linked to an alternative that you have ignored, and your only comments to me have been to dismiss what I've said. If that's not insulting, I don't know what is."
And I'd suggest, Lady though thou art, y'all go ahead and fight with him.
Democrats submitted a health bill that was over 1,000 pages long with absolutely no input from Republicans AT ALL - indeed the House Minority leader has stated on more than one occasion that Nancy Pelosi hasn't returned his e-mails or phone calls, AT ALL. This is the Democratic Party's version of bi-partisanship: we'll draft it, you'll vote for it, or we'll call you a bunch of neanderthal, knuckle dragging meanies, so there! What? Would I put myself under Obamacare? Not a damn chance skippy. Course since I'm one of the six richest members of Congress it doesn't really affect me, but I'm an "elite" and don't choose to play with the commoners at all."
| 580 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:49:24am |
re: #576 MandyManners
Wait just a cotton-pickin' minute, what happened to the clue-by-four?!
| 581 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:49:36am |
Report: US makes $4 billion from bailout banks
WASHINGTON – The U.S. government has hauled in about $4 billion in profits from large banks that have repaid their obligations from last year's federal bailout, The New York Times reported Sunday.
until the last paragraph :
Federal investments in some other banks, including Citigroup and Bank of America, are still in question, and the government could still lose much of the money it spent to bail out insurance company American International Group, mortgage lenders Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and automakers General Motors and Chrysler.
Ugh. Faulty headline.
| 582 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:50:10am |
re: #581 SasquatchOnSteroids
Report: US makes $4 billion from bailout banks
Ugh. Faulty headline.
Sounds like they pretty much only got the money back from the people who didn't need it in the first place.
| 583 |
FrogMarch Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:50:13am |
re: #574 thedopefishlives
He got butthurt because we called him out when he said he wants anything related to health care to be "more about care than profit".
How is it so many people believe the government is the answer? The government doesn't have to compete and therefore never has to be careful of costs or quality. Just hit the tax payer up for more when the ship starts to sink. And the ship will sink.
| 584 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:50:44am |
re: #569 3 wood
I'm getting real close to concluding that you just want to argue.
No, not at all. Sorry if I give that impression.
But when I say 'public insurance option' and am met with 'COMMUNISM!!!1112' than I simply will not accept it. it that makes me argumentative then so be it. I find people being disingenuous.
re: #573 Walter L. Newton
Why is this person talking shit to people here?
I'm not?
re: #574 thedopefishlives
He got butthurt because we called him out when he said he wants anything related to health care to be "more about care than profit".
Maybe it should be call 'profit care' then??
| 585 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:50:57am |
re: #569 3 wood
Hey good morning my friend! How are you doing today?
| 586 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:51:32am |
re: #577 Areozol
re: #570 Spenser (with an S)
Um, did you see the //. That was a reference to Jenny McCarthy and her dangerous nonsense, not an actual request for topless pics.
Sorry, I did't noticed irony tags. :)
s'okay. Have you seen the Jenny Mcarthy's Body Count website? Someone actually tabulated how much damage is being done by these wackos.
| 587 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:52:19am |
re: #584 Diego
You just keep on thwackin' the beehive, there, champ.
| 588 |
opnion Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:53:02am |
re: #583 FrogMarch
How is it so many people believe the government is the answer? The government doesn't have to compete and therefore never has to be careful of costs or quality. Just hit the tax payer up for more when the ship starts to sink. And the ship will sink.
Well, one thing for sure is that the congress will never divert Public Option funds to other projects. Just look at the Social Security Trust Fund, Uh, never mind.
| 590 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:54:19am |
re: #581 SasquatchOnSteroids
Nope, not a faulty headline - it expressed perfectly what the writer or editor of the headline hoped poeple who don't read the article would believe based on the headline.
And btw, what's our ROI for that $4 Billion even without AIG, Citigroup, etc.?!
| 591 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:55:26am |
re: #584 Diego
Maybe it should be call 'profit care' then??
And maybe you should be called a "unit" and treated like some sort of statistic by a government controlled health care system.
And you don't think ANYONE is going to be making any "profit" and benefit financially from a government run program?
Really?
| 592 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:55:53am |
re: #584 Diego
No, not at all. Sorry if I give that impression.
But when I say 'public insurance option' and am met with 'COMMUNISM!!!1112' than I simply will not accept it. it that makes me argumentative then so be it. I find people being disingenuous.
Well, not everyone is yelling "Communism"!
Again, without mentioning "communism" at all, I've linked 3 times to an alternate to "public insurance option" and you have said not one word about it, not one.
| 593 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:56:40am |
re: #592 reine.de.tout
crap: format problem, here's how it ought to look:
No, not at all. Sorry if I give that impression.But when I say 'public insurance option' and am met with 'COMMUNISM!!!1112' than I simply will not accept it. it that makes me argumentative then so be it. I find people being disingenuous.
Well, not everyone is yelling "Communism"!
Again, without mentioning "communism" at all, I've linked 3 times to an alternate to "public insurance option" and you have said not one word about it, not one.
| 594 |
opnion Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:56:58am |
re: #584 Diego
Maybe it should be call 'profit care' then??
Wait, there are flaws in our Health cared delivery system & people here are acknowledging that. However we lead the world in good outcomes & innovation. Who sneaks into Mexico for care?
Where do you see a superior system & if you do not, why a radical overhaul?
| 595 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:57:04am |
re: #587 thedopefishlives
You just keep on thwackin' the beehive, there, champ.
Is that how it is then? Agree with the majority or die?
And I'm not your 'champ', but thank you.
I like lively discussion. If that isn't what this is, or what this site is about, then fine.
| 596 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:57:13am |
re: #583 FrogMarch
Hi Frogmarch! Hope you're doing well today!
Uh, don't know how to break it to you, but the ship is already sinking.
Obama's BUDGETED DEFICIT for this year is greater than the actual deficit run up by the Bush Administration in four years.
And "we" just ok'd expanding the National Debt by another $9 TRILLION Dollars.
We're gonna need more than a cup to bail out this ship.
| 597 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:58:02am |
| 598 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:58:53am |
re: #571 Diego
If you think you have better alternatives then that is fine. Call your congress critters and get them behind it. I'm sure they can write up a bill and present it.
I'm only on about that which is going through congress and the deceptions which it is currently met with.
Many of your arguments are straw men. I'm sorry if you find that insulting, but I do as well when I say something about health care being more about profits then care and you say I'm against profits and think hospitals and doctors should be expected to work for free.
As I said in one of my earlier posts where I linked to the alternative, no "bill" would be necessary. A model exists and states can come see it and implement it. That's it. No congressional action is needed.
| 599 |
Radicchio ad Absurdum Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:58:58am |
| 600 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:59:12am |
re: #580 thedopefishlives
Wait just a cotton-pickin' minute, what happened to the clue-by-four?!
It probably broke from over use. :)
| 601 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:59:13am |
And by the way, I have been posting off and on information about the new intrusions granted to the IRS in amendments in HR 3200.
I've posted long sections of the proposals, but Fact Check makes it very simple... on a page which is called "26 Lies about HR 3200," there is also a lot of TRUTHS, including this one...
---
Claim: Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t have acceptable health care (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
True. This is the mechanism in the bill to enforce the individual mandate requiring everyone to have insurance. A person who doesn’t have insurance that meets minimum benefit standards (or other acceptable coverage, such as a plan that was grandfathered in) would pay a penalty of 2.5 percent of modified adjusted gross income for the year. The total penalty can’t exceed a national average premium for individual coverage, or family coverage if applicable.
---
Read the whole page, interesting stuff...
[Link: factcheck.org...]
| 602 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:00:21am |
re: #595 Diego
All I was saying is that insulting the long-standing members of this forum and generally making an ass of yourself is no way to go about "lively discussion". If you want to debate, fine - you can start by answering Reine's numerous rebuttals with factual and unbiased evidence.
| 603 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:00:28am |
re: #590 realwest
True about the headline. Hey, look, we made moniesss.
Shame a lot of people won't read past the 2nd paragraph.
Don't know the answer to your last wuestion, but I suspect there's some shady number crunchin' going on.
9 trillion and counting, and they're talking about 4 billion.
WE DID IT ! WE SAVED THE ECONOMY !
Go back to sleep.
| 604 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:00:32am |
re: #598 reine.de.tout
Then why hasn't it happened? Why are we where we are today?
| 605 |
FrogMarch Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:00:40am |
| 606 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:00:40am |
re: #595 Diego
Is that how it is then? Agree with the majority or die?
And I'm not your 'champ', but thank you.
I like lively discussion. If that isn't what this is, or what this site is about, then fine.
No one is asking you to agree with the majority, but stop acting like an asshole. It doesn't work here. (I should know).
| 607 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:00:50am |
Have never heard an answer from a lib to this. Imagine if Obama had gone before the country and said;
"Our current public health-care programs are a mess. Trillions in unfunded liabilities and fraud on levels not seen in the private sector. We will pledge to revamp and renew those programs over the next two years to show how govt. can fix these huge problems and then we will show how we could do the same in the private sector and we hope you will let us continue with this renewal."
/please read with a golden-throated voice and insert more Ivy-League vocabulary for full effect.
| 608 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:00:52am |
re: #595 Diego
Is that how it is then? Agree with the majority or die?
And I'm not your 'champ', but thank you.
I like lively discussion. If that isn't what this is, or what this site is about, then fine.
For those who weren't here yesterday, Diego came in polite and all, and asked (in effect) whether it was okay to bang on about Obama's policies being sound and all. Several of us told him that it was okay, but not to expect an easy time of it.
Just so everybody knows, Diego never mis-represented himself, and was actually pretty polite tippy-toeing in.
On the other hand, James, you asked for it, you got it. You don't get to fine-tune exactly how lively the conversation gets.
| 609 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:01:20am |
re: #571 Diego
If you think you have better alternatives then that is fine. Call your congress critters and get them behind it. I'm sure they can write up a bill and present it.
I'm only on about that which is going through congress and the deceptions which it is currently met with.
Many of your arguments are straw men. I'm sorry if you find that insulting, but I do as well when I say something about health care being more about profits then care and you say I'm against profits and think hospitals and doctors should be expected to work for free.
So are you for or against profits? If there are no profits, how do doctors get paid? How do hospitals upgrade their facilities? How does research get done?
These are not good questions?
| 610 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:01:28am |
re: #605 FrogMarch
Do you work for a living?
Oh my goodness, you mean that paycheck they give me is my share of PROFIT?
| 611 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:01:29am |
re: #588 opnion
Well, one thing for sure is that the congress will never divert Public Option funds to other projects. Just look at the Social Security Trust Fund, Uh, never mind.
Good morning opnion! Uh, just one thing about Social Security: WE - those of us who've worked at jobs and filed our tax returns, anyway, have paid TONS of money into Social Security - I mean literally if you weighed all the dough we've paid into Social Security it would weigh tons, even if you used $100 bills.
What our earstwhile leader is doing is proposing to fund programs he's trying to create by BORROWING the money completely (remember, no middle class tax cuts?! LOL!).
| 612 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:01:37am |
re: #600 BlueCanuck
It probably broke from over use. :)
I smashed mine on the evolution threads months ago, and haven't found a comfortable one since.
| 613 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:02:35am |
re: #612 haakondahl
I smashed mine on the evolution threads months ago, and haven't found a comfortable one since.
I'll have the Mrs. Fish carve you up a new one. She's a talented woodcarver and would relish the opportunity to do something other than clean up after our three furry animals.
| 614 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:02:59am |
re: #604 Diego
Then why hasn't it happened? Why are we where we are today?
It has happened - it's happened here in Louisiana.
I can't speak about other states.
Nor am I in a position to take trips to other states to promote this.
It's why I'm putting it out here. Maybe you or others can think about this alternative and promote it wherever it is you live.
| 615 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:03:15am |
re: #604 Diego
Then why hasn't it happened? Why are we where we are today?
Diego, if you have been acting like an asshole like Walter says you have, then all bets are off.
At ;east nobody's sailing off-topic below comment #100 here, or I'd have to get haughty.
[stretches suspenders]
| 616 |
lawhawk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:03:22am |
re: #596 realwest
Hi Frogmarch! Hope you're doing well today!
Uh, don't know how to break it to you, but the ship is already sinking.
Obama's BUDGETED DEFICIT for this year is greater than the actual deficit run up by the Bush Administration in four years.
And "we" just ok'd expanding the National Debt by another $9 TRILLION Dollars.
We're gonna need more than a cup to bail out this ship.
We're going to need a bigger boat. /
Morning realwest. The situation is truly dire, and yet the Democrats answer is to raise taxes and expand entitlements. They really think that big government is the solution to all that ails the nation. This book encapsulates their entire misguided way of thinking. They'll engage in revisionist history to claim that big government and massive government spending is the way to increase prosperity.
And on top of that spending, they and their allies want to increase all manner of taxes. The AFL-CIO wants to impose new taxes on stock transactions, even though it would have disastrous results for New York City and New York State, which are heavily dependent on Wall Street revenues.
The Democrats only answer is tax and spend.
| 617 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:03:52am |
re: #609 reine.de.tout
I have no issue with profits and turning a buck. I have a problem when it is placed before the care; which I honestly believe, rightly or wrongly, it is.
| 618 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:04:16am |
re: #615 haakondahl
Diego, if you have been acting like an asshole like Walter says you have, then all bets are off.
At ;east nobody's sailing off-topic below comment #100 here, or I'd have to get haughty.
[stretches suspenders]
I went up thread and read the comments. IMO, asshole. But then again, it's my opinion.
| 619 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:04:39am |
re: #608 haakondahl
For those who weren't here yesterday, Diego came in polite and all, and asked (in effect) whether it was okay to bang on about Obama's policies being sound and all. Several of us told him that it was okay, but not to expect an easy time of it.
Just so everybody knows, Diego never mis-represented himself, and was actually pretty polite tippy-toeing in.
On the other hand, James, you asked for it, you got it. You don't get to fine-tune exactly how lively the conversation gets.
Nor does anyone get to fine-tune the questions that are asked, or the demands that links to factual information be posted to back-up ones assertions.
| 620 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:04:45am |
re: #618 Walter L. Newton
I went up thread and read the comments. IMO, asshole. But then again, it's my opinion.
So then you have one of each? :-D
| 621 |
lawhawk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:05:44am |
re: #609 reine.de.tout
Many hospitals are nonprofits, as are many insurers. Nonprofits and for profit health care entities still need suffiicent revenues to meet their needs and obligations, including maintaining and upgrading technologies provided. The MRI, CT and PET scanners don't come cheap, and can cost upwards of $500,000 each, not counting the support equipment and build-out of space for them. These facilities will charge a commensurate amount to cover the costs to buy and install them.
| 622 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:05:44am |
re: #615 haakondahl
I do not believe, or anyone can show, I have been in any way an asshole. I have stood on my position, but I don't think I'm being an ass about it.
Should anyone feel otherwise then I would hope you could accept my apologies.
| 623 |
Lincolntf Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:05:59am |
Morning all.
Did President Wee-Wee nationalize anything good today?
| 624 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:06:21am |
I have to share a story my brother told me this weekend.
My brother took our 8 year old nephew fishing. Our nephew lives in Germany.
On the way home, they had this conversation:
Nephew: Washington is fancy schmancy!
Brother: Yeah, but Munich is nice too.
N: But in Washington you have the museums, the big tower, the president’s house and the white president’s house.
B: What do you mean? We don’t have a white president.
N: Yes you do. You have the president and the white president.
B: No, we only have one president.
N: Yes, Barack Obama, but you also have a white president.
B: Do you mean Joe Biden? He’s called the vice president.
N: Yes, in German, “weiss” means “white,” so he’s the white president.
Now we’re wondering if all of the kids in Germany his age think that America has a president and a white president.
| 625 |
3 wood Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:06:42am |
| 626 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:06:59am |
re: #622 Diego
I do not believe, or anyone can show, I have been in any way an asshole. I have stood on my position, but I don't think I'm being an ass about it.
Should anyone feel otherwise then I would hope you could accept my apologies.
re: #623 Lincolntf
Morning all.
Better to stand on one's position than to stand on one's wee-wee.
Did President Wee-Wee nationalize anything good today?
| 627 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:07:15am |
re: #617 Diego
May I interject and ask you a question?
How many people in the USA do you think currentl;y have NO health insurance? The numbers that are floated are as high as 50 million! Do you beleive that (or near that) number?
If not, what IS the number? wouldn't it be prudent to identify WHAT the problem is BEFORE "we" try to fix it?
| 628 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:08:37am |
re: #608 haakondahl
Good morning haakondahl! Hope you're doing well!
"For those who weren't here yesterday, Diego came in polite and all, and asked (in effect) whether it was okay to bang on about Obama's policies being sound and all. Several of us told him that it was okay, but not to expect an easy time of it.
Just so everybody knows, Diego never mis-represented himself, and was actually pretty polite tippy-toeing in."
Thank you for posting that; I would never have guessed it on my own.
| 629 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:08:38am |
re: #622 Diego
I do not believe, or anyone can show, I have been in any way an asshole. I have stood on my position, but I don't think I'm being an ass about it.
Should anyone feel otherwise then I would hope you could accept my apologies.
re: #623 Lincolntf
Morning all.
Did President Wee-Wee nationalize anything good today?
Better to stand on one's position than to stand on one's wee-wee.
---
Sorry. Wee-wee'd this post up last time.
| 630 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:08:44am |
re: #621 lawhawk
Many hospitals are nonprofits, as are many insurers. Nonprofits and for profit health care entities still need suffiicent revenues to meet their needs and obligations, including maintaining and upgrading technologies provided. The MRI, CT and PET scanners don't come cheap, and can cost upwards of $500,000 each, not counting the support equipment and build-out of space for them. These facilities will charge a commensurate amount to cover the costs to buy and install them.
Actually - all the hospitals in the city where I live are "non-profit" institutions. I should have mentioned that before. However, they still need to make money (profit)- which is then 100% put back into service. The
| 631 |
Lincolntf Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:08:46am |
re: #604 Diego
How we got here? Let's decide what "here" is. We are at a point where the vast majority of Americans have health insurance, emergency medicine is available to all, and our medical industry leads the world in innovations.
We got here because of the profit motive.
| 632 |
FrogMarch Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:09:03am |
re: #596 realwest
Hi Frogmarch! Hope you're doing well today!
Uh, don't know how to break it to you, but the ship is already sinking.
Obama's BUDGETED DEFICIT for this year is greater than the actual deficit run up by the Bush Administration in four years.
And "we" just ok'd expanding the National Debt by another $9 TRILLION Dollars.
We're gonna need more than a cup to bail out this ship.
Hi Realwest. I'd doing fine - even after a full weekend of volunteering. How are you?
If we add to the budget deficit government run health care - that specific health care ship will eventually sink. btw- if saving health care is so important , why then do the proposals kick-in in 2013? They keep insisting we need reform NOW? I'm thinking the democrats want the issue as an election/campaign slogan and little else. So much for caring. Of course if they really cared about saving health care they would be talking about free market solutions that clearly exclude ANY government plan. No. can. do. - these are the modern progressives with a big government agenda. We better step aside, Obama said they will punch back twice as hard and that time for debate is over...
| 633 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:09:33am |
Government run health care isn't working well in Britain, Canada, France, Massachusetts, or Tennessee.
/let's throw $1.5 trillion that we don't have at it and force it on every American, what could go wrong?
| 634 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:09:59am |
re: #632 FrogMarch
... I'd doing fine - even after a full weekend of volunteering. ...
Astro-turfing again?
/
| 635 |
opnion Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:10:13am |
re: #611 realwest
Good morning opnion! Uh, just one thing about Social Security: WE - those of us who've worked at jobs and filed our tax returns, anyway, have paid TONS of money into Social Security - I mean literally if you weighed all the dough we've paid into Social Security it would weigh tons, even if you used $100 bills.
What our earstwhile leader is doing is proposing to fund programs he's trying to create by BORROWING the money completely (remember, no middle class tax cuts?! LOL!).
Good points my friend. I'll see that & raise you an Obama does not like the Middle Class. IMO he considers us greedy & crass. His wife considers us wicked & worthy of punishment.
| 637 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:10:49am |
| 638 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:11:08am |
re: #627 sattv4u2
If so much as one person, needless one child, dies due to lack of medical coverage then that is too many. If making a public insurance option can stop that then I'm for it. No one can prove to me that a public option will kill all private insurance in the country or that it is 'socialized' medicine. that is my belief, plainly stated.
And when someone fains indignation because I called his/her straw man argument such then the least I can do is offer then a band-aid for their injured pride. And a smile.
| 639 |
FrogMarch Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:11:45am |
re: #610 Walter L. Newton
Oh my goodness, you mean that paycheck they give me is my share of PROFIT?
All profit is evil. Except when progressives make money. That's different.
And when the government picks our pockets to pay for some wasteful spending "reform" - that's a blessed and holy event.
| 640 |
lawhawk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:12:19am |
re: #627 sattv4u2
May I interject and ask you a question?
How many people in the USA do you think currentl;y have NO health insurance? The numbers that are floated are as high as 50 million! Do you beleive that (or near that) number?
If not, what IS the number? wouldn't it be prudent to identify WHAT the problem is BEFORE "we" try to fix it?
Assuming that 50 million are uninsured, that means that 85% of all Americans are insured under Medicare/Medicaid,SCHIP, state insurance, or private insurance plans.
If you think the number is less than 50 million, which I think it is, then the percentage of Americans without insurance increases. We're looking to totally revamp insurance for a percentage point increase in insurance coverage, even though everyone who needs care can get it?
This isn't about access to care, but who pays and the Democrats have done a magnificent job of conflating access of care with cost of care.
Instead of taking on states who prevent lower cost insurance policies approved in other states - improving portability of insurance - and other simple steps, Congressional Democrats and the President want to turn the entire health care industry on its head.
What goes unsaid is how exactly all this is paid for and who will really get the tab. What goes unsaid is where all this money is coming from. What goes unsaid is what happens to the quality of care for all Americans, not just those who can afford medical care regardless of what kind of plan is in place.
| 641 |
FrogMarch Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:12:55am |
re: #634 Walter L. Newton
Astro-turfing again?
/
Yes! At an art show for charity. (Nothing at all to do with politics)
Worked 8 hours both Sat and Sun...
| 642 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:12:59am |
Oh, and that 9/11 National Day of Service and Remembrance? The Remembrance part seems to have been misplaced after signing. How cynical of those of us who were worried last week about that day being hi-jacked, huh?
Crazy Marxist Van Jones said the National Day of Service will be a great opportunity "for people to connect, to find other people in your peer group who are also passionate about repowering America but also greening up America and cleaning up America."
/I may vomit.
| 643 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:13:16am |
re: #638 Diego
If so much as one person, needless one child, dies due to lack of medical coverage then that is too many. If making a public insurance option can stop that then I'm for it. No one can prove to me that a public option will kill all private insurance in the country or that it is 'socialized' medicine. that is my belief, plainly stated.
And when someone fains indignation because I called his/her straw man argument such then the least I can do is offer then a band-aid for their injured pride. And a smile.
Nice speech, but it avoids the question I asked.
I would gladly chip in to pay for that "ONE CHILD",, problem solved
. So again, how many peolpe in the USA do NOT have insurance
| 644 |
3 wood Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:13:51am |
re: #585 realwest
Hey good morning my friend! How are you doing today?
Doing fine, my good friend. And you?
| 645 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:15:08am |
re: #640 lawhawk
Instead of taking on states who prevent lower cost insurance policies approved in other states - improving portability of insurance - and other simple steps, Congressional Democrats and the President want to turn the entire health care industry on its head.
Actually, you have pretty much summed up the proposals currently working their way through Congress. Pretty much.
| 646 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:15:59am |
re: #640 lawhawk
I think it's WAY less than 50 million.
Take out illegals, people that could be on state/ fed programs but haven;'t signed up,,, 18-30 year olds that opt NOT to have job related coverage because they would rather have the cash in hand each paycheck
Again, until we get a "TRUE" number we cannot design a true fix
| 647 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:16:16am |
re: #638 Diego
If so much as one person, needless one child, dies due to lack of medical coverage then that is too many. If making a public insurance option can stop that then I'm for it. No one can prove to me that a public option will kill all private insurance in the country or that it is 'socialized' medicine. that is my belief, plainly stated.
And when someone fains indignation because I called his/her straw man argument such then the least I can do is offer then a band-aid for their injured pride. And a smile.
Ever heard of the NHS, and the state its in, after 60 years?
Hiya, Lizard Nation!
I see the last day of August got off to a fine and fiery start!
:-)
| 648 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:16:35am |
re: #642 Spenser (with an S)
Oh, and that 9/11 National Day of Service and Remembrance? The Remembrance part seems to have been misplaced after signing. How cynical of those of us who were worried last week about that day being hi-jacked, huh?
Crazy Marxist Van Jones said the National Day of Service will be a great opportunity "for people to connect, to find other people in your peer group who are also passionate about repowering America but also greening up America and cleaning up America."
/I may vomit.
/I may vomit too.
| 649 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:16:38am |
re: #616 lawhawk
Good morning lawhawk - well it's nice to know that there is some consistency in this World. I personally go back to LBJ's "Great Society" to see the way they prefer to throw money at problems than actually, ya know, get down in the muck and start trying to clean it up.
Mind you Republicans have done some similar stupid things, but throwing money (yours or money you've borrowed from the Chinese) is the Democratic Party's Default postion.
We are in a genuine financial crisis which Obama and the Dems have been aiding and abetting and will totally own shortly, because although I personally think the idea of spending your way out of a deficit is stupid, it IS manifestly stupid to borrow MORE money to spend your way out of a deficit.
| 650 |
itellu3times Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:16:40am |
re: #624 Mad Al-Jaffee
Now we’re wondering if all of the kids in Germany his age think that America has a president and a white president.
Great story!
How do we explain that Biden is actually in charge of sex and drugs and rock 'n roll?
| 651 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:17:04am |
re: #643 sattv4u2
So again, how many peolpe in the USA do NOT have insurance
Way more than none and way fewer than all. Where in between I have no idea, but it's in the millions by anyone's figures.
| 652 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:18:05am |
re: #638 Diego
If so much as one person, needless one child, dies due to lack of medical coverage then that is too many. If making a public insurance option can stop that then I'm for it. No one can prove to me that a public option will kill all private insurance in the country or that it is 'socialized' medicine. that is my belief, plainly stated.
And when someone fains indignation because I called his/her straw man argument such then the least I can do is offer then a band-aid for their injured pride. And a smile.
Hm.
That "someone" would be me, I guess.
And it's "feign".
Which I did not do.
| 653 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:18:26am |
re: #643 sattv4u2
So again, how many peolpe in the USA do NOT have insurance
About 12 million (4%).
/after you strip out illegals, those who can afford it but don't buy it, those who are eligible for existing government programs but don't take advantage of them, and the young who don't want health insurance
| 654 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:18:35am |
re: #651 Diego
Way more than none and way fewer than all. Where in between I have no idea, but it's in the millions by anyone's figures.
So we should hand over control of 1/6 of the economy based on a ghost number.
Got it.
| 655 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:18:50am |
re: #628 realwest
Good morning haakondahl! Hope you're doing well!
"For those who weren't here yesterday, Diego came in polite and all, and asked (in effect) whether it was okay to bang on about Obama's policies being sound and all. Several of us told him that it was okay, but not to expect an easy time of it.
Just so everybody knows, Diego never mis-represented himself, and was actually pretty polite tippy-toeing in."
Thank you for posting that; I would never have guessed it on my own.
How ya doin' real?
I'm not gonna go check the thread--sounds like folks have things well in hand. I just wanted to contribute what might be missing information. It might matter, it might not, and like I said, my clue-by-four just hasn't been the same recently.
---
But I'll tell you what. Folks who really want to defeat this miserable "sub-prime" health care fiasco; Hugh Hewitt came up with a fantastic idea. Send ten bucks to somebody Tark, who is the only declared candidate opposing Harry Reid. Obama's solid, and Pelosi is unassailable. Reid, on the other hand, is one of the three /sine qua non/ players for this health care bill to go forward. No Senate, reconciliation, no forward bill, no law.
Dingy Harry might be willing to trade his seat for a single piece of legislation. But he night not. Let's find out, shall we?
Send ten bucks to this guy, then EMAIL THE RECEIPT TO HARRY REID. Tell Senator Reid that there's more money where that comes from. Takes about two or three minutes, and everything you need is right there at this site:
[Link: www.10bucksfortark.com...]
I don't know who this Tarkanian is, although apparently he's some basketball player's son. WHat matters is he's running against Harry Reid, and had an eleven-point lead on him a few days ago. That's what gave Hugh the idea that this may be a weak link in the Democrats' armor.
Lizards, to the battlements!
| 656 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:19:40am |
re: #651 Diego
Way more than none and way fewer than all. Where in between I have no idea, but it's in the millions by anyone's figures.
Fine,,, "in the millions"
Do you think a "fix" would be different if it were 10 million as opposed to 50 million?
EXAMPLE... you have an 8 cylander car. One spark plug wire is bad. Do you change all 8 or just the bad one?
| 657 |
Pianobuff Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:19:40am |
Bummer for Obama - Hits new Low in Rasmussen Approval Poll.
Down to 46% Approve, 53% Disapprove.
OUCH!
| 658 |
lawhawk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:20:43am |
re: #645 Diego
Actually, you have pretty much summed up the proposals currently working their way through Congress. Pretty much.
Ummm... no. They aren't. The plan HR3200 is not going to demand that states accept plans acceptable to other states. It's going to overlay a federal plan over existing plans. It's going to increase the cost of insurance. It's going to result in higher taxes.
The CBO recognizes as much. The numbers provided by Democrats can't cut any other way. It will raise the cost of health care- not cut costs as Democrats, including President Obama, contend.
It will not maintain the quality of care regardless of Democrats' rhetoric because the money will not be there - it will be spread around to capture the 50 million who don't have insurance.
After all, if there are now 50 million more getting care, that costs something, and the number of doctors and hospitals isn't going to increase, which patients (you and me) will have longer waits and less time with an actual doctor. It's basic supply and demand, a concept Democrats simply don't understand.
| 659 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:20:46am |
Well,here's some news which will show you how proper counting (and accounting) is done in a neostalinist society:
Extra 200 bomb experts for Afghanistan, but 200 other troops will come home
The title says it all ...
At the weekend Gord was trumpeting there'be 'more troops' sent to Afghanistan.
Turns out, its just a handfull of different troups - and the equivalent goes home.
So - no increase in troup numbers.
Thats how you do it!
Gord is a past master at this - unfortunately, after 12 years, we know how he does it.
You betetr watch out - this sort of 'news', this sort of accounting, will come to a Congress enar you pretty soon ...!
| 660 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:21:05am |
re: #656 sattv4u2
Fine,,, "in the millions"
Do you think a "fix" would be different if it were 10 million as opposed to 50 million?
EXAMPLE... you have an 8 cylander car. One spark plug wire is bad. Do you change all 8 or just the bad one?
16. Why do one spark wire change when you can do 2 for twice the price ?
/I Won off
| 661 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:21:12am |
re: #610 Walter L. Newton
Oh my goodness, you mean that paycheck they give me is my share of PROFIT?
Nah, your paycheck is an EXPENSE that takes away from PROFIT. ;)
Theoretically, if we eliminate all the workers, we'll have the most profit possible. (Republican economics)
Theoretically, if we eliminate all the profit, everyone will have all the money they need. (Democrat economics)
Teh stoopid is STRONG these days.
| 662 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:21:44am |
re: #638 Diego
If so much as one person, needless one child, dies due to lack of medical coverage then that is too many. If making a public insurance option can stop that then I'm for it. No one can prove to me that a public option will kill all private insurance in the country or that it is 'socialized' medicine. that is my belief, plainly stated.
And when someone fains indignation because I called his/her straw man argument such then the least I can do is offer then a band-aid for their injured pride. And a smile.
Never make "perfect" the enemy of "the best". All we can do is wound the best.
And consider this: If the public option is not doing well, Congress will defend its ugly baby in whatever fashion is necessary. it will creep into the position of an unfair competitor with unlimited funding and the power to bend the regulatory environment to favor itself. Imagine if Microsoft also wrote laws, ran the FCC, and directed the SEC.
| 663 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:21:46am |
re: #658 lawhawk
After all, if there are now 50 million more getting care, that costs something, and the number of doctors and hospitals isn't going to increase, which patients (you and me) will have longer waits and less time with an actual doctor
BING,, and GO!
| 664 |
opnion Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:21:50am |
re: #657 Pianobuff
Bummer for Obama - Hits new Low in Rasmussen Approval Poll.
Down to 46% Approve, 53% Disapprove.
OUCH!
Who the hell are those 46%? Actually, I thiought that it would take at least a year for the slide.
| 665 |
Lincolntf Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:22:20am |
re: #656 sattv4u2
But if we look at it like that then we won't have a crisis, we won't need a savior, health care rights and responsibilities would remain in the hands of citizens, and massive amounts of money would stay in the private economy.
All of those are nightmares for Team Wee-Wee.
| 666 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:22:24am |
re: #638 Diego
If so much as one person, needless one child, dies due to lack of medical coverage then that is too many. If making a public insurance option can stop that then I'm for it. No one can prove to me that a public option will kill all private insurance in the country or that it is 'socialized' medicine. that is my belief, plainly stated.
And when someone fains indignation because I called his/her straw man argument such then the least I can do is offer then a band-aid for their injured pride. And a smile.
Again, I have 3 times linked to a "public" system that works and has worked here in Louisiana since the first charity hospital was established in the mid 1700's.
And again, you insist that folks are engaging in "straw man" arguments, while ignoring the fact that such a system exists and could be put into place with no federal government take-over legislation at all.
I'm wondering if you really want health care for people, or if all you want is to make sure Obamacare is the method used to provide it.
| 667 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:22:29am |
re: #633 Killian Bundy
Government run health care isn't working well in Britain, Canada, France, Massachusetts, or Tennessee.
/let's throw $1.5 trillion that we don't have at it and force it on every American, what could go wrong?
I don't know if you can say it isn't working in Mass; the quality hasn't gone down, but the price tag is higher than expected. As far as I know, unlike Canada, no one is going out of state to get care, and plenty of people are still coming here.
There are some changes I'd make to the Mass system, but it is better than Obamacare because it isn't really government run, but uses existing facilities, and private insurance. There is no public option.
One change I'd make is to phase in the penalty for not offering health insurance. Right now, companies with 10 employees have to offer insurance; those with less do not. Add an employee and you get hit with the penalty. Right now, that is $295 per year per employee, so that isn't really anything. I'd increase that to cover the costs to the state of subsidizing their employees, but phase it in gradually starting with the 11th employee, and not getting to the total amount until, say, the 101st.
There could be exceptions for nonprofits.
| 668 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:22:54am |
re: #656 sattv4u2
EXAMPLE... you have an 8 cylander car. One spark plug wire is bad. Do you change all 8 or just the bad one?
You pour liquid sand in the engine to destroy it and the government gives you $4500 that they borrowed from someone else.
/that's how that works
| 669 |
Lincolntf Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:24:12am |
re: #668 Killian Bundy
I hope Obama Care is a little kinder and gentler than Obama Car Care.
| 670 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:24:17am |
re: #659 yma o hyd
Oh PIMF!
'Better', and 'near' ...
Something wrong with
a) me fingers
b) me eyes
c) me computer ...
I'm going for 'c'!
:-)
:-)
| 671 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:24:21am |
re: #635 opnion
Good points my friend. I'll see that & raise you an Obama does not like the Middle Class. IMO he considers us greedy & crass. His wife considers us wicked & worthy of punishment.
So does his (former) pastor. The church came out against "middle-classness" as part of the whole Black Liberation Enslavement Theology.
So what, there are supposed to be rich and poor, with no one in the middle?
Poor dependent on the government; rich paying for it (until there are no rich any more); and then there are people in government.
| 672 |
lawhawk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:24:24am |
re: #659 yma o hyd
Well, they can do what President Bush did to increase the numbers temporarily. He can hold the returns, so that the 200 going home and the 200 replacements are there at the same time - a 200 soldier increase for X period.
The problem is that the Democrats simply want to bring 'em all home. From both Iraq and Afghanistan. They are still the defeatists and cut and runners. They just know that to do so would expose them for 2010, and their chances of holding on to power slip away. So Obama has to curry favor with GOPers to keep the Afghan operations running. He can't count on Democrats, because he's too busy pandering to them to get out of Iraq.
| 673 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:24:49am |
Off to an all-day meeting. Enjoy this fine end of August.
| 674 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:25:01am |
re: #659 yma o hyd
Well,here's some news which will show you how proper counting (and accounting) is done in a neostalinist society:
Extra 200 bomb experts for Afghanistan, but 200 other troops will come home
The title says it all ...
At the weekend Gord was trumpeting there'be 'more troops' sent to Afghanistan.
Turns out, its just a handfull of different troups - and the equivalent goes home.
So - no increase in troup numbers.Thats how you do it!
Gord is a past master at this - unfortunately, after 12 years, we know how he does it.
You betetr watch out - this sort of 'news', this sort of accounting, will come to a Congress enar you pretty soon ...!
In other news, the chocolate ration has been increased from three grams per week to two.
| 675 |
Kenneth Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:25:14am |
re: #624 Mad Al-Jaffee
Jah, Schwartz President Obama und Weiss President Dumkopff!
| 676 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:25:41am |
Personally, when one wire goes I replace them all. But I guess that's just me and prudence. :¬)
| 677 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:25:58am |
re: #638 Diego
If so much as one person, needless one child, dies due to lack of medical coverage then that is too many. If making a public insurance option can stop that then I'm for it...
[snip]
This is a nice sentiment, and as far from reality as anything I have heard in a long time.
So, once we have public insurance option, no child will EVER die because they don't have insurance? What if a parent refuses to sign up for insurance? What if a parent refuses medical coverage? What if federal doctor is not better than some of the slacker employees we have NOW in the public sector and KILLS a child?
So, if we have the public option, which is a fancy word for socialized medicine, we will NEVER have a single child die due to lack of medical treatment?
Answer?
| 678 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:25:59am |
re: #638 Diego
If so much as one person, needless one child, dies due to lack of medical coverage then that is too many. If making a public insurance option can stop that then I'm for it. No one can prove to me that a public option will kill all private insurance in the country or that it is 'socialized' medicine. that is my belief, plainly stated.
And when someone fains indignation because I called his/her straw man argument such then the least I can do is offer then a band-aid for their injured pride. And a smile.
So, what if many people die because under the government plan, care is rationed? Or if treatments and medicine that could have saved them wasn't developed because there was no profit in it, and the government didn't fund it? Is that OK with you?
See what goes on in England and France before claiming a public system will save everyone.
| 679 |
FrogMarch Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:26:02am |
re: #651 Diego
Way more than none and way fewer than all. Where in between I have no idea, but it's in the millions by anyone's figures.
After you subtract those who choose not to buy health insurance, and those who are in-between jobs-- the uninsured is a much smaller percentage of the population.
So 300 million people need to be fleeced so that the democrat's inflated numbers can lead to very expensive and unsustainable "free health care" system.
We do need to help those in need, but there are much smarter ways to do it. We don't need to bankrupt this nation based on faulty trumped-up statistics.
| 680 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:26:18am |
re: #673 thedopefishlives
Off to an all-day meeting. Enjoy this fine end of August.
Hasta Dope. It's already September here.
| 681 |
NJDhockeyfan Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:26:24am |
re: #657 Pianobuff
Bummer for Obama - Hits new Low in Rasmussen Approval Poll.
Down to 46% Approve, 53% Disapprove.
OUCH!
That's all those damn racist typical white people.
//
| 682 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:26:51am |
re: #667 Kosh's Shadow
I don't know if you can say it isn't working in Mass; the quality hasn't gone down, but the price tag is higher than expected.
Boston Leads Nation in Physician Wait Times
Boston, the home of leading medical schools and hospitals, a high physician population, and universal healthcare coverage, also leads the nation's 15 largest cities with the longest waiting times to schedule a doctor's appointment, according to a new survey by physician recruiters Merritt Hawkins & Associates.
The survey of 1,162 medical offices also found that only 55% of physicians, on average, accept Medicaid patients because of the low reimbursements and filing hassles.
The survey tracks the average time needed to schedule a doctor appointment in five areas: cardiology, dermatology, obstetrics/gynecology, orthopedic surgery, and family practice.
In Boston, it takes 70 days to see an obstetrician/gynecologist, 63 days to see a family physician, 54 days to see a dermatologist, 40 days to see an orthopedic surgeon, and 21 days to see a cardiologist, according to the survey.
/canary in the coal mine
| 683 |
Ward Cleaver Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:26:59am |
ISLAMABAD — A contestant on a Pakistani reality TV show drowned while performing a challenge for the program, a spokeswoman for the show's sponsor said Sunday.
Pakistani contestant Saad Khan, 32, was swimming across a lake while wearing a 15-pound (7-kilogram) backpack when he called out for help and then disappeared underwater, according to Fareshte Aslam, information officer for Unilever Pakistan, the show's sponsor.
Horrified co-contestants and crew rushed to try to save him but could not find him in the murky waters of the lake in the Thai capital of Bangkok, where the show was being filmed, according to Aslam, who was recounting reports of those on the scene.
Divers later recovered the body of Khan, she said.
| 684 |
3 wood Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:27:09am |
re: #646 sattv4u2
18-30 year olds that opt NOT to have job related coverage because they would rather have the cash in hand each paycheck
If one starts with the assumption, as I do, that part of the intent of this health coverage legislation is to make others pay for health coverage, you then see the reason why they want to set this up.
Part of the effect is to make those younger people who choose to go without coverage and keep their cash for other things, instead pay into the system that they will not use much to subsidize and pay for care for others. It's a really clever back door way to confiscate income.
| 685 |
opnion Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:27:35am |
re: #638 Diego
If so much as one person, needless one child, dies due to lack of medical coverage then that is too many. If making a public insurance option can stop that then I'm for it. No one can prove to me that a public option will kill all private insurance in the country or that it is 'socialized' medicine. that is my belief, plainly stated.
And when someone fains indignation because I called his/her straw man argument such then the least I can do is offer then a band-aid for their injured pride. And a smile.
That's nice sounding, but how many people do you think will die waiting for care under ObamaCare, or how many denied due to rationing?
Look at Oregon, look at Canada, look at England.
Obama dioes not have a better idea, it is an old & failed idea.
| 686 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:28:09am |
re: #676 Diego
Personally, when one wire goes I replace them all. But I guess that's just me and prudence. :¬)
I see. So you "fix" a problem that doesn't exist just in CASE the others may in the future go bad!
I guess you walk around your house with a fire extinguisher spraying random spots just in CASE thay later catch on fire!
I guess you put a cast on your leg today just in CASE you break it next month
| 687 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:28:31am |
A public option for healthcare for the indigent/uninsured/underinsured - that would not require a federal government take-over-all legislation.
Diego - what is the problem with that system? Why is it less attractive than an Obamacare?
| 688 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:28:59am |
re: #678 Kosh's Shadow
So, what if many people die because under the government plan, care is rationed? Or if treatments and medicine that could have saved them wasn't developed because there was no profit in it, and the government didn't fund it? Is that OK with you?
See what goes on in England and France before claiming a public system will save everyone.
People die due to old age/natural causes. But at least they don't have to die because they were denied something that could have saved them.
///
| 689 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:29:11am |
re: #656 sattv4u2
Fine,,, "in the millions"
Do you think a "fix" would be different if it were 10 million as opposed to 50 million?
EXAMPLE... you have an 8 cylander car. One spark plug wire is bad. Do you change all 8 or just the bad one?
If you're Obama, you wreck the entire engine and try a new one that hasn't worked right in any other car.
| 690 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:29:53am |
re: #635 opnion
Well you know, I was skeptical about Obama's love for America before he got elected. But, once again, Americans peacefully handed over the reins of power at the 4 or 8 year timetable. So I thought I had been wrong about him and the First Lady.
But after his world apology tour, it became apparent to me that President Obama really DOESN'T GET WHAT AMERICA IS ALL ABOUT. He. Just. Doesn't. Get. It.
And that sorta belief that America is more responsible for most of the world's ills, rather than the cure for many if not most of the world's ills, is being show again by his true disdain for middle class, ordinary Americans. He won't raise taxes on the Middle Class (he says) but he will allow the Bush Middle Class Tax Cuts to expire, with the resulting same effect.
He is a very slick, polished political persona - as I've described him, the political version of a Chicago Street Corner three card monte dealer - the ends ALWAYS justify the means and never more so than if it winds up inflicting more damage on Americans. If he wasn't hurting the Country I love SO MUCH, I'd could say Obama and Franken (or Pelosi, Reid, Murtha, Rangel, et. al.) PERFECT TOGETHER.
| 691 |
opnion Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:30:24am |
re: #671 Kosh's Shadow
So does his (former) pastor. The church came out against "middle-classness" as part of the whole Black
LiberationEnslavement Theology.So what, there are supposed to be rich and poor, with no one in the middle?
Poor dependent on the government; rich paying for it (until there are no rich any more); and then there are people in government.
The Workers Paradise, where the wealthy are vanquished & the Insiders know what is best for the masses.
BHO thinks that the Constitutiobn should have dealt with Economic Justice (Wealth Redistribution.)
| 692 |
Dahveed Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:30:58am |
According to this report the government made a profit of $4 billion bailing out the banks.
The end of the report pretty much says that the bailout money to Citi, AIG, the automakers, are still in question. What the report also doesn't say is that there are banks that have failed in spite of the bailout and the FDIC insurance fund is depleted. So, aside from the banks that have paid bailout money back, how much are we still potentially on the hook for?
| 693 |
3 wood Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:31:05am |
This is interesting, oil is down 3% already this morning.
This has got to be driving the oil hating faction of the left crazy, given how they want to force expensive "green" technology down our throats.
| 694 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:31:40am |
re: #691 opnion
The Workers Paradise, where the wealthy are vanquished & the Insiders know what is best for the masses.
BHO thinks that the Constitutiobn should have dealt with Economic Justice (Wealth Redistribution.)
"By the people, of the people, for the people. As it always should have been."
/running out of current ration of sarc slashes
| 695 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:31:53am |
re: #672 lawhawk
Well, they can do what President Bush did to increase the numbers temporarily. He can hold the returns, so that the 200 going home and the 200 replacements are there at the same time - a 200 soldier increase for X period.
The problem is that the Democrats simply want to bring 'em all home. From both Iraq and Afghanistan. They are still the defeatists and cut and runners. They just know that to do so would expose them for 2010, and their chances of holding on to power slip away. So Obama has to curry favor with GOPers to keep the Afghan operations running. He can't count on Democrats, because he's too busy pandering to them to get out of Iraq.
That idea, of having them there, overlapping temporarily, won't work, because firstly where are the 200 bomb demolitione xperts going to come from? And as they are not 'soldiering' in the usual way, they would not increase the numbers of fighting troups, even if there was this temporary overlap.
Making 200 soldiers go home ine xchange is in fact a reduction in the numbers of fighting troups.
Its a typically hare-brained thing, spin and propaganda, a good soundbite but nothing else.
As for the idea that everybody should leave - yes, this is definitely 'in the air', here as well.
Both Obama and Brown know damn well that even debating this publicly is boosting the morale of the Taleban, thus its self-defeating.
I soemtimes wonder what certain people, especially 'experts', actually use for brains ...
| 696 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:32:18am |
re: #676 Diego
re: #686 sattv4u2
I see. So you "fix" a problem that doesn't exist just in CASE the others may in the future go bad!
I guess you walk around your house with a fire extinguisher spraying random spots just in CASE thay later catch on fire!
I guess you put a cast on your leg today just in CASE you break it next month
Oh ,, and by the way ,,, you're doing all that at someone elses expense!
| 697 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:32:42am |
re: #687 reine.de.tout
A public option for healthcare for the indigent/uninsured/underinsured - that would not require a federal government take-over-all legislation.
Diego - what is the problem with that system? Why is it less attractive than an Obamacare?
What besides government makes legislation?
And again, I do not believe a public run insurance option is in any way a 'government takeover of health care'. But that is just my belief, you're free to believe what you like.
| 698 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:32:46am |
| 699 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:33:00am |
re: #674 haakondahl
In other news, the chocolate ration has been increased from three grams per week to two.
How well you know the way of neostalinist accounting!
Jam tomorrow, innit, like ...!
| 700 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:33:30am |
re: #697 Diego
What besides government makes legislation?
And again, I do not believe a public run insurance option is in any way a 'government takeover of health care'. But that is just my belief, you're free to believe what you like.
The question was:
Why is that system less attractive than public-run insurance option?
| 701 |
opnion Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:34:04am |
re: #690 realwest
Well said Real. IMO Obama loves the America that he will create, not the one that exists.
| 702 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:34:09am |
re: #644 3 wood
I'm doing ok, thanks, but have to leave shortly to go sit by the phone waiting for someone from Norton - you know, a real human being, to pick up the phone and clear up my "windows virus doctor" virus or phishing expedition.
Oh. Joy.
Hope YOU have a GREAT day my friend!
| 703 |
Kenneth Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:34:38am |
re: #638 Diego
If so much as one person, needless one child, dies due to lack of medical coverage then that is too many. If making a public insurance option can stop that then I'm for it. No one can prove to me that a public option will kill all private insurance in the country or that it is 'socialized' medicine. that is my belief, plainly stated.
And when someone fains indignation because I called his/her straw man argument such then the least I can do is offer then a band-aid for their injured pride. And a smile.
All the other countries in the world that introduced public health care called it "socialized medicine". It's only in America that they shy away from the word. I can tell you for certain that people in Canada die while waiting for rationed health care.
| 704 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:34:41am |
Goodness. White House just twittered, asking for help:
whitehouse: Biden asks your help: bust the myth that our health ins. system is fine w/ a video on why reform matters [Link: bit.ly...]
| 705 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:34:43am |
re: #700 reine.de.tout
I'm sorry, I have a full workload and it's distracting ;P
What system do you mean?
| 706 |
lawhawk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:34:52am |
re: #695 yma o hyd
Hey, I'm not saying that it would work. I'm saying that's how Obama can claim he increased the troops. Never mind that they serve different functions and sappers aren't the same as snipers or special forces. The Administration will crow that they increased the number and to heck with the force composition because the media and the public simply doesn't understand the difference.
| 707 |
Last Mohican Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:34:53am |
re: #682 Killian Bundy
That's a very important link that you just posted.
Besides the long wait times, everyone should note the statistic that only 55% of Boston physicians accept Medicare, because they are unable to pay their rent, staff salaries, malpractice premiums, etc. with Medicare's low reimbursement rates and time-consuming claims process.
The main purpose of the proposed health care bills is to create a government-run system that is like medicare, but will be available to all Americans regardless of age. This is being done in order to give the whole insurance industry the leverage to reduce reimbursements to doctors and hospitals. If this happens, the American health care system will be devastated. Enormous numbers of doctors either simply won't practice any more, or they'll have to refuse to accept any insurance.
| 708 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:35:13am |
re: #682 Killian Bundy
/canary in the coal mine
I think this was the case even before the mandatory insurance.
I wouldn't be surprised to find a heavier use of medical care in this area than elsewhere, partly because the health care industry is so big, and advertises heavily, so people make more use of it.
And the HMO model of having the primary care physician act as gatekeeper has been pushed out; too many people wanted to decide whether they could go to a specialist and not have it decided for them.
| 709 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:35:42am |
re: #705 Diego
I'm sorry, I have a full workload and it's distracting ;P
What system do you mean?
The system in place here in Louisiana, that I am now linking to for the fifth time.
| 710 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:35:53am |
re: #647 yma o hyd
Hi there {yma} - gee, if y'all were in Charlotte today, you'd feel right at home, weather wise! Cloudy, rainy and cool to coldish today!
Hope you're well.
| 711 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:36:43am |
re: #709 reine.de.tout
The system in place here in Louisiana, that I am now linking to for the fifth time.
| 712 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:38:03am |
re: #684 3 wood
If one starts with the assumption, as I do, that part of the intent of this health coverage legislation is to make others pay for health coverage, you then see the reason why they want to set this up.
Part of the effect is to make those younger people who choose to go without coverage and keep their cash for other things, instead pay into the system that they will not use much to subsidize and pay for care for others. It's a really clever back door way to confiscate income.
It is indeed.
Here in the UK, those on welfare benefits, a.k.a. lazy, layabout parasites, do of course not pay anything into the NHS.
Only those who pay taxes do.
People on benefits do of course have access to all the free healthcare - its certainly free for them!
Oh - and it is of course free for all the immigrants, legal or illegal, and for the 'health tourists' who come here to have their babies, get their TB cured, etc etc etc ...
| 713 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:38:42am |
re: #688 laZardo
People die due to old age/natural causes. But at least they don't have to die because they were denied something that could have saved them.
///
I almost replied before seeing your sarc tag.
But I will for the benefit of those who don't already know.
Many elderly died in France due to lack of care, and many die waiting for care or have drastically reduced quality of life in England.
| 714 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:38:44am |
re: #709 reine.de.tout
System glitch there. I asked before why it hasn't gone national. I thought that was answer enough. If it's working then perhaps it is all that is needed, but why isn't it everywhere if it's working?
| 715 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:39:03am |
re: #707 Last Mohican
"Then it's their problem that they simply refuse to care for their patients according to the oath they took!"
/i am frighteningly good at sloganeering.
| 716 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:39:42am |
re: #697 Diego
What besides government makes legislation?
And again, I do not believe a public run insurance option is in any way a 'government takeover of health care'. But that is just my belief, you're free to believe what you like.
If the house bill passes, as written right now, who do you think will make the FINAL decision on what is an adequate health insurance policy? If the house bill passes, as written right now, who do you think will be collecting 2.5 percent of your adjusted gross income if you DON'T have a health insurance policy deemed adequate by the government and if the house bill passes, as written right now, who do you thing will decide FOR YOU EMPLOYER, what is considered a adequate health insurance policy?
Then what is that?
By the way, have you read the whole bill and the current proposals?
| 717 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:39:50am |
re: #697 Diego
What besides government makes legislation?
And again, I do not believe a public run insurance option is in any way a 'government takeover of health care'. But that is just my belief, you're free to believe what you like.
Please explain to turn how private insurance can possibly compete with a government run program that can operate under huge deficits, tax younger people who do not want or need health insurance to help supplant the deficits, and simply print money whenever they want to? There is no way to compete with the government, private insurance would go bye bye Diego. oh morning all.
| 718 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:40:44am |
re: #714 Diego
System glitch there. I asked before why it hasn't gone national. I thought that was answer enough. If it's working then perhaps it is all that is needed, but why isn't it everywhere if it's working?
And again, I will say this:
I do not have the means to promote this in all states.
I don't know why it isn't everywhere. I was grown before I realized it did not exist everywhere.
I'm posting it because perhaps folks here could look at this and mention it in their own states, to their own representatives, as an alternative.
| 719 |
Digital Display Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:41:15am |
Good Morning Lizards! Hope everyone is doing fine today.
| 720 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:42:07am |
re: #718 reine.de.tout
Good idea. Sounds like you have an equitable plan and some work ahead of you. I hope it all works out.
| 721 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:42:16am |
Yeah, just wait until Americans find out that they have to buy health insurance or pay a hefty fine.
/Democrats will own the payback
| 722 |
Last Mohican Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:42:54am |
re: #715 laZardo
"Then it's their problem that they simply refuse to care for their patients according to the oath they took!"
/i am frighteningly good at sloganeering.
Yup, that may be the slogan that the Obamabots go with, once half the doctors in America quit practicing, and half the hospitals go bankrupt.
I hope they enjoy chanting it at their astroturfed rallies. And I hope they don't throw a shoulder out carrying a protest sign, because there won't be any doctors for them to see.
| 723 |
kansas Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:43:02am |
re: #721 Killian Bundy
Yeah, just wait until Americans find out that they have to buy health insurance or pay a hefty fine.
/Democrats will own the payback
They won't find out until after 2012.
| 724 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:43:42am |
re: #721 Killian Bundy
If having insurance is optional will treating those who don't have it be optional too?
| 725 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:43:50am |
re: #713 Kosh's Shadow
I almost replied before seeing your sarc tag.
But I will for the benefit of those who don't already know.
Many elderly died in France due to lack of care, and many die waiting for care or have drastically reduced quality of life in England.
Because...they're old?
///character spam filters only allow 3 slashes at a time. >_>
| 726 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:44:29am |
re: #719 HoosierHoops
Good Morning Lizards! Hope everyone is doing fine today.
Not much sand in my shorts so far today. How're you?
| 727 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:44:38am |
re: #723 kansas
They won't find out until after 2012.
If we're all still around after then.
/new oldest apocalypse joke ever.
| 728 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:44:40am |
re: #720 Diego
Good idea. Sounds like you have an equitable plan and some work ahead of you. I hope it all works out.
The reason it (the Louisianna plan) isn;t "national" is because you can do things on a smaller scale that are immpossible on a grander one. There are also regional differences in what is needed vis a vis health concerns, so whats more important in the south gulf coast is of NO importnace in Maine
| 729 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:44:42am |
re: #706 lawhawk
Hey, I'm not saying that it would work. I'm saying that's how Obama can claim he increased the troops. Never mind that they serve different functions and sappers aren't the same as snipers or special forces. The Administration will crow that they increased the number and to heck with the force composition because the media and the public simply doesn't understand the difference.
Aww - it was actually Gordon Brown who announced all this, not Obama.
But you're right - the public in the USA right now, at the beginning of PB0's presidency, won't understand the difference - as yet!
They will in time, though - as we've learned in time to check any numbers Gord comes out with, regardless of the matter he addresses.
We've also learned, after 12 years, to see through the spin.
In fact its now practically a national pastime to see who coems up fastest with the rebuttal of NuLab spin. Its getting quite hilarious.
Well, we've gotta have something to laugh about, in these dire times. Its only fair that NuLab, who caused all this, contributes to the hilarity of the nation!
| 730 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:45:02am |
re: #724 Diego
If having insurance is optional will treating those who don't have it be optional too?
/having insurance is optional and no one in this country goes without care
| 731 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:45:35am |
re: #719 HoosierHoops
Hey there hoops. Doing fine here but been having to seriously curtail my LGF time, ouch that hurts :.)
| 732 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:45:38am |
re: #720 Diego
Good idea. Sounds like you have an equitable plan and some work ahead of you. I hope it all works out.
?
I have no work to do. It seems as if you aren't reading what I've said, as if you've decided I'm full of "straw men" and needing a "band-aid" and not worth your time.
The point, Diego, is that there are all sorts of alternatives to a national federal health insurance. Tort reform, insurance portability, healthcare systems in states dedicated to providing service to uninsured/underinsured.
But so many people seem stuck on the idea that national federal health insurance is the only way to go.
It isn't.
| 733 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:45:51am |
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck...
| 734 |
Digital Display Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:46:14am |
re: #726 MandyManners
Not much sand in my shorts so far today. How're you?
Good Morning Mandy...I'm just hanging out in my cube waiting for lunch..
(the best part of any work day)
| 735 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:46:31am |
re: #733 MandyManners
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck...
It's Hope! And Change!
| 736 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:46:41am |
re: #710 realwest
Hi there {yma} - gee, if y'all were in Charlotte today, you'd feel right at home, weather wise! Cloudy, rainy and cool to coldish today!
Hope you're well.
Hiya, {rw}!
That sounds just like it is over here, today: grey, drizzle (again!), cool ...!
We're fine - I hope you're doing well!
| 737 |
lawhawk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:47:14am |
re: #733 MandyManners
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck...
It's a goose? /
| 738 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:47:24am |
re: #718 reine.de.tout
I know I probably missed a reply to this question back up there but I need to be sure this time...
Assuming a system like this is enacted across the United States, how will this not create the sort of pathway to a single public option that HR 3200 is intended to do? Especially given that the LSU system is free...
| 739 |
Digital Display Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:47:25am |
re: #731 turn
Hey there hoops. Doing fine here but been having to seriously curtail my LGF time, ouch that hurts :.)
Hi Turn! Are you keeping an eye on California for me?
| 740 |
UFO TOFU Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:47:33am |
Interesting
How American Health Care Killed My Father
| 741 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:47:38am |
Holy Cow. Senator Reid's contact site is now DOWN (YMMV, let some time go by, etc...). I'm sure not getting the server anymore. Hmmm... maybe it's the whole Senate.
| 743 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:47:46am |
re: #732 reine.de.tout
?
I have no work to do. It seems as if you aren't reading what I've said, as if you've decided I'm full of "straw men" and needing a "band-aid" and not worth your time.
The point, Diego, is that there are all sorts of alternatives to a national federal health insurance. Tort reform, insurance portability, healthcare systems in states dedicated to providing service to uninsured/underinsured.
But so many people seem stuck on the idea that national federal health insurance is the only way to go.
It isn't.
ding!
| 744 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:47:54am |
re: #734 HoosierHoops
Good Morning Mandy...I'm just hanging out in my cube waiting for lunch..
(the best part of any work day)
What's a golfer's favorite lunch?
A club sandwich.
Hat-tip to The Kid.
| 745 |
Lee Coller Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:47:55am |
re: #732 reine.de.tout
?
I have no work to do. It seems as if you aren't reading what I've said, as if you've decided I'm full of "straw men" and needing a "band-aid" and not worth your time.
The point, Diego, is that there are all sorts of alternatives to a national federal health insurance. Tort reform, insurance portability, healthcare systems in states dedicated to providing service to uninsured/underinsured.
But so many people seem stuck on the idea that national federal health insurance is the only way to go.
It isn't.
A couple of other things that would help:
1) Allowing the purchase of Healthcare Policies from out of state.
2) Eliminating coverage mandates (mental health, etc.)
| 746 |
kansas Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:47:58am |
Mrs. Kansas just saw her doctor for some tests. His bill was 242.00. Blue Cross Blue Shield "negotiated" with him and paid him $65. The EOB (Explanation of Benefits) listed the difference as "Provider Responsibility". I'd call it felony theft of services. Course I'm not gonna volunteer to pay the difference.
| 747 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:48:21am |
| 748 |
Diego Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:48:27am |
re: #732 reine.de.tout
I meant that you could make a blog or the like ie:
I'm posting it because perhaps folks here could look at this and mention it in their own states, to their own representatives, as an alternative.
| 749 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:48:37am |
re: #713 Kosh's Shadow
I almost replied before seeing your sarc tag.
But I will for the benefit of those who don't already know.
Many elderly died in France due to lack of care, and many die waiting for care or have drastically reduced quality of life in England.
And many elderly die in hospital, in nd, ebcause of inadequate care and bad nursing, due to the culture of 'targets', and due to nurses having to fill in more forms than they can handle, so that untrained 'health care assistants' are doing what nurses did before NuLab came to power ...
| 750 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:48:46am |
re: #717 turn
Please explain to turn how private insurance can possibly compete with a government run program that can operate under huge deficits, tax younger people who do not want or need health insurance to help supplant the deficits, and simply print money whenever they want to? There is no way to compete with the government, private insurance would go bye bye Diego. oh morning all.
Faster service;
Higher quality health care;
More comprehensive coverage -
All at a much higher premium cost than the government program.
The result will be a two tier system, one for the wealthy and one for the rest.
| 751 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:48:47am |
| 752 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:49:06am |
re: #736 yma o hyd
I'm doing ok, thanks for asking! But I must now take my leave and go sit on the phone - not literally, of course - and wait for Norton to find a human being to answer the phone!
I hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you down the road - after this Diego thread!
| 753 |
Last Mohican Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:49:09am |
Did you know that, if you criticize the Obamacare bills, you are the ideological heir of Osama bin Laden?
So says Barack Obama's official web site. In its astroturfing section, it has a list of pro-Obamacare rallies and events where it wants you to show up and support Obamacare. One of them is an event that's going to happen ON SEPTEMBER 11, in which you're supposed to call your member of congress and ask them to support Obamacare. Thereby "reclaiming our land from the heirs of, yes, Bin Laden," i.e. people who are opposed to Obamacare.
| 754 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:49:12am |
Hey, all you Lizards out there in the Desert!
Y'all are in my prayers. Hope some rain comes your way.
| 755 |
VioletTiger Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:49:23am |
re: #707 Last Mohican
That's a very important link that you just posted.
Besides the long wait times, everyone should note the statistic that only 55% of Boston physicians accept Medicare, because they are unable to pay their rent, staff salaries, malpractice premiums, etc. with Medicare's low reimbursement rates and time-consuming claims process.
The main purpose of the proposed health care bills is to create a government-run system that is like medicare, but will be available to all Americans regardless of age. This is being done in order to give the whole insurance industry the leverage to reduce reimbursements to doctors and hospitals. If this happens, the American health care system will be devastated. Enormous numbers of doctors either simply won't practice any more, or they'll have to refuse to accept any insurance.
A good friend of mine had to go out of state for care for a serious heart condition.
Couldn't wait in Mass.
| 756 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:49:25am |
re: #738 laZardo
I know I probably missed a reply to this question back up there but I need to be sure this time...
Assuming a system like this is enacted across the United States, how will this not create the sort of pathway to a single public option that HR 3200 is intended to do? Especially given that the LSU system is free...
Because . . . I'm free to keep the private health insurance that I have now, and it continues to grow and enroll new members, while this system uses existing medicare/medicaid to sustain itself. It uses what is in place now, without the need for anything new.
It may not be the best possible option; all I know is that it works and works well here. And has worked since the mid 1700's when the first one opened.
| 757 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:49:38am |
re: #739 HoosierHoops
Hi Turn! Are you keeping an eye on California for me?
Yeah I would if I could just see through the smoke! Seriously though, weather in Sac is beautiful for the next 10, low 90's.
| 758 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:50:51am |
re: #745 Lee Coller
A couple of other things that would help:
1) Allowing the purchase of Healthcare Policies from out of state.
2) Eliminating coverage mandates (mental health, etc.)
yep.
Lots of things can be done, and all of these alternatives have been mentioned here and elswhere.
But I keep hearing that "no one" offers any other "solutions", other than a federal national health insurance plan.
| 759 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:51:06am |
re: #744 MandyManners
What's a golfer's favorite lunch?
A club sandwich.
Hat-tip to The Kid.
There is a sports bar near me that is now called "Chip Shot".
(It used to be called "Home Plate")
| 760 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:51:14am |
re: #756 reine.de.tout
It's the lack of penalty for choosing otherwise? Of course, you already have insurance so there wouldn't technically be a penalty at the moment.
| 761 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:52:18am |
re: #750 Spare O'Lake
Faster service;
Higher quality health care;
More comprehensive coverage -
All at a much higher premium cost than the government program.
The result will be a two tier system, one for the wealthy and one for the rest.
I suppose that is a possibility for a few insurance providers but the vast majority would go bye bye.
| 762 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:52:27am |
re: #745 Lee Coller
A couple of other things that would help:
1) Allowing the purchase of Healthcare Policies from out of state.
2) Eliminating coverage mandates (mental health, etc.)
Ways insurance companies could exploit technicalities in...
1) Residency issues, possibly.
2) Specific conditions will not be covered, ostensibly to reduce excess costs.
/devil's advocate
| 763 |
Lincolntf Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:53:16am |
re: #753 Last Mohican
That's just too fucking much. I had to go read the site for myself...
"DEFEAT ANTI-DEMOCRATIC FORCES OF HATE WHO CONSPIRE TO REMAIN HEALTHY + WEALTHY WHILE THE PUBLIC LANGUISHES UNDER THE BURDEN OF OUR PRESENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM –"
The above hysterical rant is not from some stoned anarchist, it's from the White House. What a bunch of absolute loons we have in power.
| 764 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:53:34am |
re: #745 Lee Coller
A couple of other things that would help:
1) Allowing the purchase of Healthcare Policies from out of state.
2) Eliminating coverage mandates (mental health, etc.)
(1) would be a problem in some states. I knew someone who had insurance through an organization, and found its maximum per day cost for a hospital stay didn't even cover half the cost in Massachusetts. In other states, it probably covered 100%
Allow unfettered cross-state insurance, and end up with people bankrupt with medical costs they thought their insurance would cover, OR you add requirements that drive up the cost in low-cost states.
| 765 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:53:35am |
re: #751 MandyManners
Just poop.
Well, prove it isn't unicorn poop, huh? Thought so. I rest my case.
| 766 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:54:03am |
re: #753 Last Mohican
Did you know that, if you criticize the Obamacare bills, you are the ideological heir of Osama bin Laden?
So says Barack Obama's official web site. In its astroturfing section, it has a list of pro-Obamacare rallies and events where it wants you to show up and support Obamacare. One of them is an event that's going to happen ON SEPTEMBER 11, in which you're supposed to call your member of congress and ask them to support Obamacare. Thereby "reclaiming our land from the heirs of, yes, Bin Laden," i.e. people who are opposed to Obamacare.
Words actually fail me, to describe this utterly despicable 'action'.
They are actually asking people to stay at home - on that day of all days, for this?
| 767 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:54:16am |
I gotta' take some shoes in for some work so I've decided to empty my shoe-closet and let the cobler condition and shine them all. I just did seven pairs and it took me an hour! No way am I gonna' spend half the day on shoes. Egads. Now I just gotta' figure out how many boxes I can carry down three flights of stairs at a time without falling and breaking my neck.
Beauty knows no pain.
| 768 |
3 wood Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:54:34am |
re: #716 Walter L. Newton
By the way, have you read the whole bill and the current proposals?
That is a great question.
Diego, no snark intended here, but I'm starting to get the feeling that you've not read HR 3200 but instead representations from various news sources of what they claim is or is not in it.
If so, please be aware that several of us here have actually read most of not all the bill and so are quite familiar with the specifics and what is in it.
Walter is one, I'm another, there may be more. Over the last few weeks we have linked and posted key passages of the bill, so a review of our past posts may be informative.
Therefore, while one may debate semantics, we know the specifics of what is in the bill.
| 769 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:54:52am |
re: #746 kansas
Mrs. Kansas just saw her doctor for some tests. His bill was 242.00. Blue Cross Blue Shield "negotiated" with him and paid him $65. The EOB (Explanation of Benefits) listed the difference as "Provider Responsibility". I'd call it felony theft of services. Course I'm not gonna volunteer to pay the difference.
I've seen the same thing, but with a different line item.
$273 for tests. "Adjusted" to $73. I paid $20, insurance paid $53. No insurance? You're out $273
| 770 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:55:01am |
re: #754 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Hey, all you Lizards out there in the Desert!
Y'all are in my prayers. Hope some rain comes your way.
Hiya, FBV - its a pity we can't send our rain (of which we have too much) over there, to help out!
| 771 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:55:05am |
re: #753 Last Mohican
Did you know that, if you criticize the Obamacare bills, you are the ideological heir of Osama bin Laden?
So says Barack Obama's official web site. In its astroturfing section, it has a list of pro-Obamacare rallies and events where it wants you to show up and support Obamacare. One of them is an event that's going to happen ON SEPTEMBER 11, in which you're supposed to call your member of congress and ask them to support Obamacare. Thereby "reclaiming our land from the heirs of, yes, Bin Laden," i.e. people who are opposed to Obamacare.
Right wing domestic terrorists. It really says that.
/they really love us.
| 772 |
Last Mohican Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:55:18am |
re: #746 kansas
Mrs. Kansas just saw her doctor for some tests. His bill was 242.00. Blue Cross Blue Shield "negotiated" with him and paid him $65. The EOB (Explanation of Benefits) listed the difference as "Provider Responsibility". I'd call it felony theft of services. Course I'm not gonna volunteer to pay the difference.
I work for a big hospital, and I don't get directly involved in billing issues very often. But the hospital usually receives far less than it bills for particular admissions, procedures, doctor visits, etc. Frequently it receives nothing at all.
It's a weird business model. Imagine if you ran a restaurant where someone could come in, order dinner, and eat it, and then when the check comes, they just say "well, I'll take this check home and look at it for six months or so, and then I'll tell you how much I'm willing to pay you. Or if I'm willing to pay you anything at all."
| 773 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:55:21am |
re: #759 Kosh's Shadow
There is a sports bar near me that is now called "Chip Shot".
(It used to be called "Home Plate")
Do they serve chipped-beef on toast?
| 774 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:55:33am |
re: #753 Last Mohican
Did you know that, if you criticize the Obamacare bills, you are the ideological heir of Osama bin Laden?
So says Barack Obama's official web site. In its astroturfing section, it has a list of pro-Obamacare rallies and events where it wants you to show up and support Obamacare. One of them is an event that's going to happen ON SEPTEMBER 11, in which you're supposed to call your member of congress and ask them to support Obamacare. Thereby "reclaiming our land from the heirs of, yes, Bin Laden," i.e. people who are opposed to Obamacare.
And Bush, by proxy. INSAAAHD JAAAWWWB.
/i see wut they did thar
| 775 |
UFO TOFU Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:56:19am |
| 776 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:56:33am |
re: #763 Lincolntf
re: #753 Last Mohican
That's just too fucking much. I had to go read the site for myself...
"DEFEAT ANTI-DEMOCRATIC FORCES OF HATE WHO CONSPIRE TO REMAIN HEALTHY + WEALTHY WHILE THE PUBLIC LANGUISHES UNDER THE BURDEN OF OUR PRESENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM –"
The above hysterical rant is not from some stoned anarchist, it's from the White House. What a bunch of absolute loons we have in power.
That's not really from the WH,is it? Sounds like a supporter, but not an official.
| 777 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:57:02am |
re: #753 Last Mohican
Did you know that, if you criticize the Obamacare bills, you are the ideological heir of Osama bin Laden?
So says Barack Obama's official web site. In its astroturfing section, it has a list of pro-Obamacare rallies and events where it wants you to show up and support Obamacare. One of them is an event that's going to happen ON SEPTEMBER 11, in which you're supposed to call your member of congress and ask them to support Obamacare. Thereby "reclaiming our land from the heirs of, yes, Bin Laden," i.e. people who are opposed to Obamacare.
This would be truly infuriating, if it were not for the fact that so far:
OTHER SIGNUPS
8 people have signed up to attend this event.
I had just about reached cruising altitude when I saw that. Sudden loss of cabin pressure :-D
| 778 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:57:22am |
re: #765 haakondahl
Well, prove it isn't unicorn poop, huh? Thought so. I rest my case.
You don't remember the giant duck of peace at some moonbat protest in D.C.? A giant, paper-mache duck with the sign, "JUST POOP".
| 779 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:57:28am |
re: #753 Last Mohican
Did you know that, if you criticize the Obamacare bills, you are the ideological heir of Osama bin Laden?
So says Barack Obama's official web site. In its astroturfing section, it has a list of pro-Obamacare rallies and events where it wants you to show up and support Obamacare. One of them is an event that's going to happen ON SEPTEMBER 11, in which you're supposed to call your member of congress and ask them to support Obamacare. Thereby "reclaiming our land from the heirs of, yes, Bin Laden," i.e. people who are opposed to Obamacare.
So opposing a system that will kill medical progress and subject people to health care rationing is the same as killing 3000 people and destroying a landmark? These are the same people who called Bush "Hitler".
| 780 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:57:43am |
re: #763 Lincolntf
That's just too fucking much. I had to go read the site for myself...
"DEFEAT ANTI-DEMOCRATIC FORCES OF HATE WHO CONSPIRE TO REMAIN HEALTHY + WEALTHY WHILE THE PUBLIC LANGUISHES UNDER THE BURDEN OF OUR PRESENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM –"
The above hysterical rant is not from some stoned anarchist, it's from the White House. What a bunch of absolute loons we have in power.
Couldn't tell if that was from Burris et al, or if this is that wierd facebook for commies application.
| 781 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:57:59am |
In Minnesota, it's pretty much impossible not to have health insurance.
/unless you're too stupid or lazy to sign up for MinnesotaCare or Medicaid
| 782 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:58:03am |
re: #767 MandyManners
I gotta' take some shoes in for some work so I've decided to empty my shoe-closet and let the cobler condition and shine them all. I just did seven pairs and it took me an hour! No way am I gonna' spend half the day on shoes. Egads. Now I just gotta' figure out how many boxes I can carry down three flights of stairs at a time without falling and breaking my neck.
Beauty knows no pain.
Nah, just toss 'em out yer window and right into the car trunk.
*good exercise*
| 783 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:58:10am |
| 784 |
Lincolntf Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:58:20am |
re: #766 yma o hyd
There is no word so profane that it would accurately convey my feelings about this affront to decency. I'll just try to keep my sense of humor rather than dwell on it, but that web message is among the most callous, disgusting things I've ever seen. Obama and the rest of the Wee-Wees should crawl under a rock and hide out of shame for allowing it to be sent.
| 785 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:58:23am |
re: #777 haakondahl
I had just about reached cruising altitude when I saw that. Sudden loss of cabin pressure :-D
It looks like you can "RSVP" without getting an account too.
/hmm... 8D
| 786 |
opnion Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:58:28am |
re: #763 Lincolntf
That's just too fucking much. I had to go read the site for myself...
"DEFEAT ANTI-DEMOCRATIC FORCES OF HATE WHO CONSPIRE TO REMAIN HEALTHY + WEALTHY WHILE THE PUBLIC LANGUISHES UNDER THE BURDEN OF OUR PRESENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM –"
The above hysterical rant is not from some stoned anarchist, it's from the White House. What a bunch of absolute loons we have in power.
Well, aren't they special?
Next I expect,
'Greeting Comrades, it has come to our attention that some of you
are living too long. While you selfishly continue to consume water &
oxygen, you are contributing to Global Warming & minimizing health delivery to more worthy, productive citizens, who have more time left
to pay taxes.
Please perform your patriotic duty"
| 787 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:58:32am |
re: #760 laZardo
It's the lack of penalty for choosing otherwise? Of course, you already have insurance so there wouldn't technically be a penalty at the moment.
People remain free to choose to have health insurance, or not, and the indigent/uninsured/underinsured get care. Nothing changes.
| 788 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:58:40am |
re: #755 VioletTiger
A good friend of mine had to go out of state for care for a serious heart condition.
Couldn't wait in Mass.
Was it the particular hospital or he couldn't get the care anywhere? (Or was it that no place his insurance dealt with could schedule the work?)
| 789 |
Last Mohican Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:59:05am |
re: #766 yma o hyd
Words actually fail me, to describe this utterly despicable 'action'.
They are actually asking people to stay at home - on that day of all days, for this?
It's really disgusting, isn't it? I found this on the spinoff links for this thread. I updinged it, but with some reservations, because (1) the link is actually to a blog, not Obama's site itself, and (2) it's incorrectly categorized as "related to post," even though the post in question is an open thread. That seems like it might be a deliberate miscategorization, done to get the link to the top of the list.
I'm thinking of resubmitting it, as a direct link, with a hat tip to the original poster. What do you think? What's the right thing to do, from a Blogging Ethics standpoint?
| 790 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:59:30am |
re: #787 reine.de.tout
So it'd be a sort of "safety net" to cover the bases? Sounds more reasonable.
| 791 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:59:36am |
re: #784 Lincolntf
There is no word so profane that it would accurately convey my feelings about this affront to decency. I'll just try to keep my sense of humor rather than dwell on it, but that web message is among the most callous, disgusting things I've ever seen. Obama and the rest of the Wee-Wees should crawl under a rock and hide out of shame for allowing it to be sent.
Did you get a screen shot of it. I can't here.
| 792 |
lawhawk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:59:46am |
re: #781 Killian Bundy
And a simple change of the law to require that doctors/health care practitioners sign up those who aren't already in MnCare upon receipt of services, could resolve that issue. It would speed reimbursement under the program too.
| 793 |
Lincolntf Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:00:43am |
re: #780 haakondahl
Not sure about the posting situation over there. I assumed that since it's on the OFA site it's authorized by Obama/his staff. I could be wrong.
| 795 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:00:55am |
Nope, it's not the White House, although these folks "Organizing for America" try as hard as they can to look official.
paraphrasing:
Paid for by OFA, a project of the DNC, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.
| 796 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:01:03am |
re: #763 Lincolntf
That's just too fucking much. I had to go read the site for myself...
"DEFEAT ANTI-DEMOCRATIC FORCES OF HATE WHO CONSPIRE TO REMAIN HEALTHY + WEALTHY WHILE THE PUBLIC LANGUISHES UNDER THE BURDEN OF OUR PRESENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM –"
The above hysterical rant is not from some stoned anarchist, it's from the White House. What a bunch of absolute loons we have in power.
And make everyone who actually gets paid for a living "languish" under the burden of paying for everyone's coverage.
| 797 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:01:42am |
re: #790 laZardo
So it'd be a sort of "safety net" to cover the bases? Sounds more reasonable.
YES!
It is a "safety net". Exactly.
| 798 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:01:59am |
re: #766 yma o hyd
Words actually fail me, to describe this utterly despicable 'action'.
They are actually asking people to stay at home - on that day of all days, for this?
Stay home just like the jooos who worked in the towers did on 9/11
//DO I HAVE TO?
| 799 |
Lincolntf Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:02:01am |
re: #791 SasquatchOnSteroids
Not a screen shot, but a direct "copy" from the site:
DO YOU WANT to ensure passage of the Public Plan? Since 75% of Americans support it, I guess it's time for us Seventy-Five Percenters to be heard. Why Public Plan? = Because It’s American To Take Care Of Our Own!
And, according to a White House Advisor to the President with whom I spoke ten days ago at a DNC Panel, he said, "ON ONE DAY you 'burn-up' the Senate Switchboards - THE NEXT DAY you've got the Senator's attention". We will achieve that effect, on Friday, Patriot Day 9/11.
Auto-generated emails will remind you about our Armchair Public Plan Slam-Dunk Two-Phone-Call Call-A-Thon. Plus I will email you that day, too. And, if you're proud you joined-in, then email me (the Host) back, when you've made your calls. I will be honored to report our massive numbers to OFA for them to brag on the web.
2 PHONE CALLS ON 9/11 – BE A TRUE PATRIOT –
DEFEAT ANTI-DEMOCRATIC FORCES OF HATE WHO CONSPIRE TO REMAIN HEALTHY + WEALTHY WHILE THE PUBLIC LANGUISHES UNDER THE BURDEN OF OUR PRESENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM –
---* TELL THEM: "I'm calling from the city of [xxx] – and I AM mad as Hell – and I AM NOT going to take it anymore, If You Don't Mind!"...
---* TELL THEM: "Please make the Public Plan the Law of the Land –
---* TELL THEM: “Because IT’S AMERICAN TO TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN.”
---* TELL THEM: “Tell that to my Senator – Thank you, Good-bye."
That's it – simple – all you need is a calendar, an armchair and a phone, for us to have a good strong voice.
Ask your friends if they want to join our Public Plan Call-A-Thon on 9/11: Patriot's Day –
| 800 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:02:25am |
re: #789 Last Mohican
It's really disgusting, isn't it? I found this on the spinoff links for this thread. I updinged it, but with some reservations, because (1) the link is actually to a blog, not Obama's site itself, and (2) it's incorrectly categorized as "related to post," even though the post in question is an open thread. That seems like it might be a deliberate miscategorization, done to get the link to the top of the list.
I'm thinking of resubmitting it, as a direct link, with a hat tip to the original poster. What do you think? What's the right thing to do, from a Blogging Ethics standpoint?
Direct link, with hat tip to original poster is a good idea!
It doesn't really matter much that its not linked to an official site - its the mental attitude which creates such writing that is so utterly despicable, and does show how PB0-supproters really think.
| 801 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:02:29am |
re: #786 opnion
Well, aren't they special?
Next I expect,
'Greeting Comrades, it has come to our attention that some of you
are living too long. While you selfishly continue to consume water &
oxygen, you are contributing to Global Warming & minimizing health delivery to more worthy, productive citizens, who have more time left
to pay taxes.
Please perform your patriotic duty"
Don't ya just hate folks who conspire to be healthy?
| 802 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:03:04am |
re: #773 MandyManners
Do they serve chipped-beef on toast?
I actually have never been there. But I'm sure you can get potato chips and shots of whiskey.
| 803 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:03:25am |
re: #801 Spare O'Lake
Don't ya just hate folks who conspire to be healthy?
They're only doing it because they are racists.
| 804 |
Last Mohican Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:03:43am |
re: #791 SasquatchOnSteroids
Did you get a screen shot of it. I can't here.
I did. But what I'd really like to do is somehow capture how long the post has been up. I'm sure the people who run the site will eventually argue that it's unmoderated, and they removed this as soon as they realized it was there. We saw that before, during the election. Obama's official site hosted a number of disgusting anti-Semitic rants, which stayed up for weeks, at least. But if someone tried to post a criticism of Obama's economic policy proposals, it would vanish within an hour.
| 805 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:03:46am |
re: #753 Last Mohican
Did you know that, if you criticize the Obamacare bills, you are the ideological heir of Osama bin Laden?
So says Barack Obama's official web site. In its astroturfing section, it has a list of pro-Obamacare rallies and events where it wants you to show up and support Obamacare. One of them is an event that's going to happen ON SEPTEMBER 11, in which you're supposed to call your member of congress and ask them to support Obamacare. Thereby "reclaiming our land from the heirs of, yes, Bin Laden," i.e. people who are opposed to Obamacare.
Isn't he also proposing that 9-11 be turned into some sort of COMMUNITY ORGANIZING EVENT.
Miseraable fucking commie bastard.
| 806 |
vxbush Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:03:56am |
Good morning/afternoon/evening, everyone. Several things going on today.
1. It's my birthday.
2. Steven D. Levitt, author of Freakonomics, is going to speak in my area later in September. I'm debating if I should go or not.
3. I got paid today. To be honest, I wasn't sure if I would or not.
All in all, a good day so far.
| 807 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:04:39am |
re: #784 Lincolntf
That little f@#$er who took bought Blago's seat wrote that I see. Dispicable.
| 808 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:04:45am |
re: #793 Lincolntf
Not sure about the posting situation over there. I assumed that since it's on the OFA site it's authorized by Obama/his staff. I could be wrong.
For me, it doesn't matter if its an 'official', authorized thing or not.
It shows in finest detail how these people think.
We may rail about the craziness evident on the far right - but this stuff shows that the craziness on the left is alive, well, and far more virulent.
| 809 |
Ward Cleaver Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:05:03am |
re: #744 MandyManners
What's a golfer's favorite lunch?
A club sandwich.
Hat-tip to The Kid.
ba-da-BOOM!
| 810 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:05:18am |
re: #806 vxbush
Good morning/afternoon/evening, everyone. Several things going on today.
1. It's my birthday.
2. Steven D. Levitt, author of Freakonomics, is going to speak in my area later in September. I'm debating if I should go or not.
3. I got paid today. To be honest, I wasn't sure if I would or not.All in all, a good day so far.
Happy Birthday!
| 811 |
FrogMarch Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:05:30am |
Today's must read: The Perspective Of A Russian Immigrant
In kindergarten we sang songs about Lenin, the leader of the Socialist Revolution. In school we learned about the beautiful socialist system, where everybody is equal and everything is fair; about ugly capitalism, where people are exploited and treat each other like wolves in the wilderness.
Life in the USSR modeled the socialist ideal. God-based religion was suppressed and replaced with cultlike adoration for political figures.
The government-assigned salary of the proletariat (blue-collar worker) was 30%-50% higher then any professional. Without incentive to improve their life, professionals drank themselves to oblivion. They — engineers, lawyers, doctors, teachers — earned a government-determined salary that barely covered the necessities, mainly food.
Raising children was a hardship. It took four to six adults (parents and grandparents) to support a child. The usual size of the postwar family was one or two children. Every woman had the right to have an abortion and most of them did, often without anesthesia.
Sounds nice. Where do we sign up?
| 812 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:05:41am |
re: #798 Kosh's Shadow
Stay home just like the jooos who worked in the towers did on 9/11
//DO I HAVE TO?
Not in Lizardia, you don't!
;-)
| 813 |
opnion Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:06:00am |
| 814 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:06:08am |
re: #782 Spare O'Lake
Nah, just toss 'em out yer window and right into the car trunk.
*good exercise*
I don't know if they'd survive a four-storey drop. Maybe if I tied all the boxes shut...
| 815 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:06:23am |
Midnight. Going to bed.
Ladies and Gents, please do stop by [Link: www.10bucksfortark.com...]
When he signed off on Friday, over five thousand people had dropped ten (or more) bucks and then mailed Hugh--Heaven knows how many more just dropped the dough and didn't mail.
There will be no health care bill without Harry Reid. Maybe Reid will accept defeat in return fro getting the bill passed--let's call his bluff.
| 816 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:06:52am |
re: #806 vxbush
Good morning/afternoon/evening, everyone. Several things going on today.
1. It's my birthday.
2. Steven D. Levitt, author of Freakonomics, is going to speak in my area later in September. I'm debating if I should go or not.
3. I got paid today. To be honest, I wasn't sure if I would or not.All in all, a good day so far.
Happy b-day {vx}
| 817 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:07:40am |
re: #806 vxbush
Good morning/afternoon/evening, everyone. Several things going on today.
1. It's my birthday.
2. Steven D. Levitt, author of Freakonomics, is going to speak in my area later in September. I'm debating if I should go or not.
3. I got paid today. To be honest, I wasn't sure if I would or not.All in all, a good day so far.
Happy Birthday, {vxbush}!
Many happy returns - and getting paid has to be a good thing!
(Dunno about Levitt ...)
| 818 |
vxbush Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:07:52am |
re: #816 turn
Happy b-day {vx}
Thank you, thank you, one and all. They remembered at work and were shocked that today is my actual birthday. It seems that we're celebrating everyone's birthdays here either a day or two early or something like three days late.
| 819 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:08:30am |
re: #812 yma o hyd
Not in Lizardia, you don't!
;-)
Morning {yma}, bet Madame for me. Hey can I ask you a personal question? What branch of science to you specialize in?
| 821 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:08:57am |
re: #818 vxbush
Happy Birthday.
And many more !
| 822 |
opnion Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:09:34am |
re: #805 MandyManners
Isn't he also proposing that 9-11 be turned into some sort of COMMUNITY ORGANIZING EVENT.
Miseraable fucking commie bastard.
Yes "A NAtional Day of Service"
Didn't something significant happen on that day? let me think.
| 823 |
Danny Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:09:39am |
Good morning all. Monday's tip for the day: don't buy mowers with Tecumseh engines on them. Tecumseh engines suck.
| 824 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:09:51am |
Btw, I learned a new word today: 'carborexics' ...
Thats those who count the carbon footprint of everything they eat ...
(If you knew this already, forgive me ...!)
| 825 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:09:55am |
re: #818 vxbush
Thank you, thank you, one and all. They remembered at work and were shocked that today is my actual birthday. It seems that we're celebrating everyone's birthdays here either a day or two early or something like three days late.
They always forget my birthday here, oh well. Have a great day!
| 826 |
srb1976 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:10:18am |
re: #806 vxbush
Good morning/afternoon/evening, everyone. Several things going on today.
1. It's my birthday.
2. Steven D. Levitt, author of Freakonomics, is going to speak in my area later in September. I'm debating if I should go or not.
3. I got paid today. To be honest, I wasn't sure if I would or not.All in all, a good day so far.
| 827 |
Ward Cleaver Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:10:33am |
re: #766 yma o hyd
Words actually fail me, to describe this utterly despicable 'action'.
They are actually asking people to stay at home - on that day of all days, for this?
Here's the whole text (Part I):
2 PHONE CALLS ON 9/11 - Illinois! (Health Care Organizing Event)
STAY HOME FOR THIS EVENT! DO NOT GO ANYWHERE!
Stay HOME:
---* The Event consists of ALL OF US Making Two Phone Calls on one particular, single day.
---* We call each of our State Senators (phone numbers are below) on that day.What day? Our US Senators return to DC the Tues after Labor Day. That next FRIDAY, Sep 11, is Patriot Day, designated in memory of the nearly three thousand who died in the 9/11 attacks.
All 50 States are coordinating in this – as we fight back against our own Right-Wing Domestic Terrorists who are subverting the American Democratic Process, whipped to a frenzy by their Fox Propaganda Network ceaselessly re-seizing power for their treacherous leaders.
DO YOU WANT to ensure passage of the Public Plan? Since 75% of Americans support it, I guess it's time for us Seventy-Five Percenters to be heard. Why Public Plan? = Because It’s American To Take Care Of Our Own!
And, according to a White House Advisor to the President with whom I spoke ten days ago at a DNC Panel, he said, "ON ONE DAY you 'burn-up' the Senate Switchboards - THE NEXT DAY you've got the Senator's attention". We will achieve that effect, on Friday, Patriot Day 9/11.
Auto-generated emails will remind you about our Armchair Public Plan Slam-Dunk Two-Phone-Call Call-A-Thon. Plus I will email you that day, too. And, if you're proud you joined-in, then email me (the Host) back, when you've made your calls. I will be honored to report our massive numbers to OFA for them to brag on the web.
2 PHONE CALLS ON 9/11 – BE A TRUE PATRIOT –
DEFEAT ANTI-DEMOCRATIC FORCES OF HATE WHO CONSPIRE TO REMAIN HEALTHY + WEALTHY WHILE THE PUBLIC LANGUISHES UNDER THE BURDEN OF OUR PRESENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM –
---* TELL THEM: "I'm calling from the city of [xxx] – and I AM mad as Hell – and I AM NOT going to take it anymore, If You Don't Mind!"...
---* TELL THEM: "Please make the Public Plan the Law of the Land –
---* TELL THEM: “Because IT’S AMERICAN TO TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN.”
---* TELL THEM: “Tell that to my Senator – Thank you, Good-bye."That's it – simple – all you need is a calendar, an armchair and a phone, for us to have a good strong voice.
Ask your friends if they want to join our Public Plan Call-A-Thon on 9/11: Patriot's Day –
++++++++++++++++++++++++++Burris, Roland W. - (D - IL)
387 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[no phone numbers allowed]
Durbin, Richard J. - (D - IL)
309 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[no phone numbers allowed]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---* RECLAIM OUR LAND FROM THE HEIRS OF, YES: BIN LADEN *---* YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE *---
In case you haven't seen it in the News: Republican Representatives, Senators, GOP Party Leader, GOP Political Machine top personnel (e.g., Gingritch), etc etc etc --- they're ALL every one of them applauding and encouraging their zealot-horde by merrily referring to them as "Proud Right-Wing Terrorists". Google it - I'm not pulling your leg.
But don't hate them: Misguided citizens are easy-pickings for demagogues, whom they blindly follow because they’ve been trained all their lives not to question the dogma of their religion, so it’s natural for them NOT TO QUESTION what’s being spoon-fed to them by their FALSE PROPHETS who, themselves, shamelessly seek Worldly Glory.
| 828 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:10:52am |
re: #823 Danny
Good morning all. Monday's tip for the day: don't buy mowers with Tecumseh engines on them. Tecumseh engines suck.
Honda makes the best small engines for mowers, just ask bluecannuc.
| 829 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:11:08am |
re: #823 Danny
Good morning all. Monday's tip for the day: don't buy mowers with Tecumseh engines on them. Tecumseh engines suck.
Can I just say I love my Honda but am tired of the grass.
ARRRGGG.
| 830 |
Ward Cleaver Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:11:18am |
And Part II:
They don’t apply the simple Test: “Am I being led closer to God, when I do what these folks say? – Or, am I on a Bullet-Train to the Devil, and I’m just a pawn to make these folks richer and more powerful?” Because, you know: the Faith one has in God, is different from faith one should have in Man. And you need to be even MORE skeptical, when one of ‘em says that God picked them for something or another. You can bet whatever they’re doing is making them more powerful/ more wealthy, and certainly less pious, no? Ooops, and following them is making YOU less pious too, in thought, and in deed. Yesseree, it’s a real thing to chew on.
Just remember: We Are The Super-Heroes Who Yes WE DID, and YES, WE SHALL commence administering Super-Hero Karate Chops, beginning now.
Oh, and can some of you facebook and tweat this around? I'm not that good at it yet.
IF YOU MISS THIS DAY, JUST DO IT OVER THE WEEKEND – IT'LL ALL GET REPORTED TO THE RESPECTIVE SENATORS ON MONDAY, ANYWAY."Zero Pride-of-Ownership", here Folks! - Cut and Paste all of this together your own Event or create your own wording, at the city/town of your choosing, since lots of people look for an event that's 5 miles close.
| 831 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:11:38am |
re: #811 FrogMarch
The descendants of those immigrants are now supporting policies that move America away from the values that gave so many immigrants the chance of a better life. Policies such as nationalized medicine, high tax rates and government intrusion into free enterprise are being sold to us under the socialistic motto of collective salvation.
"Of course Russia could never shake off the feudal system. But when they came here...they were forced into conditions like...
...until selfless-minded leaders and organizers helped wield democracy to help them! Of course, it was only recently when they finally got a glimpse of the top!"
/The video game is from 2008. Think about it...
| 832 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:11:39am |
re: #795 haakondahl
Nope, it's not the White House, although these folks "Organizing for America" try as hard as they can to look official.
paraphrasing:
Have you Googled "Organizing for America"? It is FCBBHO'S SITE.
[Link: www.barackobama.com...]
| 833 |
Last Mohican Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:11:59am |
| 834 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:11:59am |
re: #819 turn
Morning {yma}, bet Madame for me. Hey can I ask you a personal question? What branch of science to you specialize in?
Hiya, {turn}!
Madame says 'wuff'!
I studied zoology - and am still totally enthralled by that subject!
My 'fav' specialties were animal behaviour, marine biology, and the ecology which accompanies both.
| 835 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:12:32am |
re: #802 Kosh's Shadow
I actually have never been there. But I'm sure you can get potato chips and shots of whiskey.
In bed.
| 836 |
vxbush Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:12:42am |
re: #829 SasquatchOnSteroids
Can I just say I love my Honda but am tired of the grass.
ARRRGGG.
I don't know what brand it is, my our weedwacker has several tubes that have disintegrated on it and my husband is trying to get the parts for it to fix it. Not sure how hard it will be or what engine it is, but it's not just lawn mowers, that's for sure.
| 837 |
Ward Cleaver Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:13:21am |
re: #836 vxbush
I don't know what brand it is, my our weedwacker has several tubes that have disintegrated on it and my husband is trying to get the parts for it to fix it. Not sure how hard it will be or what engine it is, but it's not just lawn mowers, that's for sure.
Tubes?
| 838 |
Danny Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:13:42am |
re: #828 turn
Honda's definitely rock. I got this one at a yard sale for $50 thinkin I could just clean it up a bit and cut my grass (now 2 weeks overgrown since my riding mower broke). Ended up pissing away an entire afternoon trying to fix this &@#* Techumseh carb.
| 839 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:13:44am |
re: #828 turn
Honda makes the best small engines for mowers, just ask bluecannuc.
Actually I would bet on a Briggs and Stratton. Only engine and lawnmower I despise with a passion is Lawnboy. Those mowers are a real pain in the neck to service and parts are more expensive than a Techumseh or B&S. I didn't do much work with a Honda since they weren't that common in the small engine field at the time I was learning.
| 840 |
Ward Cleaver Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:14:23am |
re: #829 SasquatchOnSteroids
Can I just say I love my Honda but am tired of the grass.
ARRRGGG.
I have a Honda Masters (seven years old), and it always starts on the first pull. I dig it.
| 841 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:14:23am |
re: #832 MandyManners
Have you Googled "Organizing for America"? It is FCBBHO'S SITE.
[Link: www.barackobama.com...]
It used to be Obama for America, one of the campaign organizations. Perhaps lawhawk or one of our other legal sorts can find out if the org has been spun-off properly, as I suspect it must have been. These people aren't exactly straight, but they aren't exactly stupid, either.
| 842 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:14:37am |
re: #818 vxbush
Thank you, thank you, one and all. They remembered at work and were shocked that today is my actual birthday. It seems that we're celebrating everyone's birthdays here either a day or two early or something like three days late.
| 843 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:14:49am |
| 844 |
vxbush Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:14:51am |
re: #837 Ward Cleaver
Tubes?
I don't know why it has tubes, I really don't. I just saw the parts on the kitchen table: little white tubes that at first I thought were medical equipment but had stoppers in the end.
I have no clue.
| 845 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:15:18am |
re: #841 haakondahl
It used to be Obama for America, one of the campaign organizations. Perhaps lawhawk or one of our other legal sorts can find out if the org has been spun-off properly, as I suspect it must have been. These people aren't exactly straight, but they aren't exactly stupid, either.
HOMOPOBHE!
/because RACSIT! was sooo~ November 4, 2008.
| 846 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:15:20am |
re: #834 yma o hyd
I had a feelling about the marine biology from swapping stories about where we went to the summer camps. Thanks. btw boob hurt his right rear shoulder chasing the ball yesterday, the first time I've ever seen him limp. He didn't even want to play after that. I'll call the turnwife at lunch and see if it any better.
| 847 |
Lincolntf Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:15:21am |
re: #822 opnion
Whether the story is 3,000 dead Americans or just one dead Senator, the sickos on the Left will manipulate it to push their agenda.
Shameless lowlifes, the lot of them.
| 848 |
Creeping Eruption Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:15:33am |
re: #834 yma o hyd
Hiya, {turn}!
Madame says 'wuff'!I studied zoology - and am still totally enthralled by that subject!
My 'fav' specialties were animal behaviour, marine biology, and the ecology which accompanies both.
Loved Parasitology myself.
| 849 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:16:03am |
re: #836 vxbush
I don't know what brand it is, my our weedwacker has several tubes that have disintegrated on it and my husband is trying to get the parts for it to fix it. Not sure how hard it will be or what engine it is, but it's not just lawn mowers, that's for sure.
It's the fuel. Eats shit up, I'm told.
We don't have gasoline anymore, it's called "auto fuel" now.
Was told not to use the stuff after about 45 days in anything but a car.
| 850 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:16:08am |
re: #838 Danny
How old is the engine, and what was wrong with the carburetor originally? You might have to do a rebuild with new parts and gaskets. About an hour or so job if you know what you are doing.
| 851 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:16:25am |
When does the decent interval draw to a close?
| 852 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:16:40am |
re: #825 turn
They always forget my birthday here, oh well. Have a great day!
Turn - no one forgets my birthday. I have learned to announce it and repeat it.
| 853 |
Ward Cleaver Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:16:51am |
re: #839 BlueCanuck
Actually I would bet on a Briggs and Stratton. Only engine and lawnmower I despise with a passion is Lawnboy. Those mowers are a real pain in the neck to service and parts are more expensive than a Techumseh or B&S. I didn't do much work with a Honda since they weren't that common in the small engine field at the time I was learning.
At the power equipment place I buy parts from, they refer to Briggs & Stratton as either "Break & Shake" or "Briggs & Scrapiron". I used to use a couple of Tecumseh-engined mowers, and I liked them better than B&S. However, we're talking about 1970s era Tecumsehs.
| 854 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:17:00am |
re: #850 BlueCanuck
How old is the engine, and what was wrong with the carburetor originally? You might have to do a rebuild with new parts and gaskets. About an hour or so job if you know what you are doing.
Fifteen minutes if you have no clue!
| 855 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:17:37am |
| 856 |
Ward Cleaver Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:17:43am |
re: #844 vxbush
I don't know why it has tubes, I really don't. I just saw the parts on the kitchen table: little white tubes that at first I thought were medical equipment but had stoppers in the end.
I have no clue.
They could be carburetor parts.
| 857 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:17:54am |
re: #823 Danny
Good morning all. Monday's tip for the day: don't buy mowers with Tecumseh engines on them. Tecumseh engines suck.
"They've got the plastic flywheels, the govt. won't buy Tecumsehs because they've got the plastic flywheels!"
/10 points for movie title
| 858 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:17:58am |
re: #838 Danny
Honda's definitely rock. I got this one at a yard sale for $50 thinkin I could just clean it up a bit and cut my grass (now 2 weeks overgrown since my riding mower broke). Ended up pissing away an entire afternoon trying to fix this &@#* Techumseh carb.
I have a ride on high vac Snapper with a Honda GV1100. Awesome piece of equipment. I'm surprised bluecannuc likes briggs, those things suck imo.
| 859 |
opnion Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:18:05am |
re: #847 Lincolntf
Whether the story is 3,000 dead Americans or just one dead Senator, the sickos on the Left will manipulate it to push their agenda.
Shameless lowlifes, the lot of them.
Yes indeed. Even at the Funeral, they had Junior Kennedy's talking about health reform, from the pulpit!
| 860 |
haakondahl Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:18:05am |
ALright, goodnight. really. srsly. i cn haz snuz.
| 861 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:18:08am |
re: #840 Ward Cleaver
I have a Honda Masters (seven years old), and it always starts on the first pull. I dig it.
Same here. 3 pulls first time for the season. 1 pull thereafter. About 5 yrs old.
| 862 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:18:18am |
re: #854 haakondahl
Fifteen minutes if you have no clue!
Ah yes, and it won't run worth crap afterwards either. :)
| 863 |
Ward Cleaver Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:18:25am |
re: #851 haakondahl
I don't know, but waiting to get my snark on.
| 864 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:18:42am |
re: #851 haakondahl
When does the decent interval draw to a close?
Depends
For a liberal icon, no denounciations for at least 25-30 years (See Kennedy,, John F. ,,, Roosevelt,, Franklin D)
For a conservative icon,,, at least 25-30 minutes (See Reagan, Ronald)
| 865 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:18:50am |
re: #839 BlueCanuck
Actually I would bet on a Briggs and Stratton. Only engine and lawnmower I despise with a passion is Lawnboy. Those mowers are a real pain in the neck to service and parts are more expensive than a Techumseh or B&S. I didn't do much work with a Honda since they weren't that common in the small engine field at the time I was learning.
Trust me, they are the best.
| 866 |
Danny Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:19:19am |
re: #850 BlueCanuck
It's not that old, three or four years maybe. Unfortunately the owner was an old lady and she let it sit with fuel in the bowl, which turned to varnish. I shot some carb cleaner in there and got it to run briefly, but then it apparently gummed up again. Took the carb apart and it was a mess. Rebuild in order.
| 869 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:20:06am |
re: #844 vxbush
I don't know why it has tubes, I really don't. I just saw the parts on the kitchen table: little white tubes that at first I thought were medical equipment but had stoppers in the end.
I have no clue.
Now you really have me scratching my head - tubes? ha
| 870 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:20:35am |
re: #839 BlueCanuck
Actually I would bet on a Briggs and Stratton. Only engine and lawnmower I despise with a passion is Lawnboy. Those mowers are a real pain in the neck to service and parts are more expensive than a Techumseh or B&S. I didn't do much work with a Honda since they weren't that common in the small engine field at the time I was learning.
My 10-year-old snowblower is Tecumseh, and works fine. It does need some work, but it has had zero maintenance in 10 years.
| 871 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:20:43am |
re: #846 turn
I had a feelling about the marine biology from swapping stories about where we went to the summer camps. Thanks. btw boob hurt his right rear shoulder chasing the ball yesterday, the first time I've ever seen him limp. He didn't even want to play after that. I'll call the turnwife at lunch and see if it any better.
Aww - poor Luke!
At least you don't have to carry him up the stairs - which i had to do with Madame when she sprained her foreleg, chasing a squirrel up a tree.
Vet advised a week of shor walks (can be many short walks a day!) on the lead only!
No running around, no chasing, no balls, (no squirrel hunting, for Madame).
Hope Luke gets better - Madame sends her best wishes!
Works well!
| 872 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:20:45am |
re: #858 turn
You go with what you know. I could make my lawn mower run like a dream. Also did some work on my dads snow blower every year. Trouble with most mowers is that people abuse the crap out of them. Then again I was working with older engines not any of the brand new ones.
| 873 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:20:45am |
re: #869 turn
Now you really have me scratching my head - tubes? ha
Must be fuel lines and the pickup filter. Not sure, but my guess.
| 874 |
LoquaciousLady Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:21:19am |
Has this been discussed yet this morning? I'm a little perplexed that Schumer is saying this.
| 875 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:21:42am |
re: #850 BlueCanuck
How old is the engine, and what was wrong with the carburetor originally? You might have to do a rebuild with new parts and gaskets. About an hour or so job if you know what you are doing.
And don't forget to get that little float gasket in the right way, that is so frustrating!
| 876 |
Danny Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:22:34am |
re: #875 turn
And don't forget to get that little float gasket in the right way, that is so frustrating!
You mean the bowl gasket, or the float pin seat?
| 877 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:22:36am |
re: #848 Creeping Eruption
Loved Parasitology myself.
It was extremely interesting - although some in my class were, ahem, a bit upset when we had to dissect a mouse (each) with loads of parasites in their liver ...!
| 878 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:22:45am |
re: #852 reine.de.tout
Turn - no one forgets my birthday. I have learned to announce it and repeat it.
hahaha, Yeah I could really care less so I don't bother advertising.
| 879 |
LoquaciousLady Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:22:50am |
Our mower with a Briggs and Stratton engine 15 years old, not a single problem. We've tuned it twice in it's life.
| 881 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:24:26am |
re: #853 Ward Cleaver
At the power equipment place I buy parts from, they refer to Briggs & Stratton as either "Break & Shake" or "Briggs & Scrapiron". I used to use a couple of Tecumseh-engined mowers, and I liked them better than B&S. However, we're talking about 1970s era Tecumsehs.
I had a briggs on the Snapper before I replaced it with the Honda. The friggin thing had the worst ridge I'd ever seen after only two years. You couldn't even get the piston out, it was junk.
| 882 |
vxbush Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:24:50am |
re: #873 SasquatchOnSteroids
Must be fuel lines and the pickup filter. Not sure, but my guess.
Sorry, guys. My husband likes working on B & S engines; he has no problems with them that I know of.
However, I can almost guarantee what he's going to do today: he found a book that he loves reading to the son, and so he's been reading at least five chapters a day to him. I've never seen him this excited to read to the Dude; I'm always the reader.
It's nice. And the Dude really likes it.
| 883 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:25:26am |
I got a John Deere letter one time. Wasn't taking proper care of the Snapper.
//
| 884 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:25:45am |
re: #866 Danny
It's not that old, three or four years maybe. Unfortunately the owner was an old lady and she let it sit with fuel in the bowl, which turned to varnish. I shot some carb cleaner in there and got it to run briefly, but then it apparently gummed up again. Took the carb apart and it was a mess. Rebuild in order.
You can get a rebuild kit cheap. Comes with gaskets and stuff. If the bowl is all gummed up it would be best to remove as many parts as possible and soak it in gas. That way you won't remove any of the protective coating on the carb itself. I bet all the rubber gaskets partially disolved and caused the gummy problem.
Note to all users of small engines. Be careful about the alcohol content in the fuel you use. It can dissolve and rot any of the rubber parts in the fuel system if it's too high.
| 885 |
vxbush Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:25:55am |
re: #877 yma o hyd
It was extremely interesting - although some in my class were, ahem, a bit upset when we had to dissect a mouse (each) with loads of parasites in their liver ...!
I was pregnant with my firstborn, still having horrible morning sickness, when I had to do dissection in biology in college. Formaldehyde still makes me violently ill.
| 886 |
srb1976 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:26:03am |
re: #882 vxbush
Sorry, guys. My husband likes working on B & S engines; he has no problems with them that I know of.
However, I can almost guarantee what he's going to do today: he found a book that he loves reading to the son, and so he's been reading at least five chapters a day to him. I've never seen him this excited to read to the Dude; I'm always the reader.
It's nice. And the Dude really likes it.
How old is the Dude?
| 887 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:26:33am |
re: #880 Creeping Eruption
Sounds cool to me.
I found the life cycles of the various parasite-host relationships extremely fascinating - and how they adapt to thier host's defense mechanism.
Falciparum comes to mind ...
(But I did this a long time ago ...)
| 888 |
Radicchio ad Absurdum Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:26:46am |
re: #883 SasquatchOnSteroids
I got a John Deere letter one time. Wasn't taking proper care of the Snapper.
//
No, both Briggs and Stratton apparently were.
| 889 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:27:03am |
re: #865 turn
The Governor buys me Honda Commercial mowers!
My first one lasted twelve years!
I love my new 0 turn radius mower(home) It takes
me 45 minutes to mow 3/4 of an acre!!
Has a beer can holder...Did I say I love it!!
Very Smokey dark day here in Central Utah!
These " Managed fires" become "Unmanaged" BDQ!
Dumb asses let them burn for month before the
"Oh shit,It's out of control"People are losing their dream homes now!
| 890 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:27:07am |
re: #871 yma o hyd
Aww - poor Luke!
At least you don't have to carry him up the stairs - which i had to do with Madame when she sprained her foreleg, chasing a squirrel up a tree.Vet advised a week of shor walks (can be many short walks a day!) on the lead only!
No running around, no chasing, no balls, (no squirrel hunting, for Madame).Hope Luke gets better - Madame sends her best wishes!
Works well!
Thanks yma, are you saying I should walk him on the lead?
| 891 |
Danny Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:27:31am |
re: #884 BlueCanuck
I bet all the rubber gaskets partially disolved and caused the gummy problem.
You nailed it.
Note to all users of small engines. Be careful about the alcohol content in the fuel you use. It can dissolve and rot any of the rubber parts in the fuel system if it's too high.
I learned that the hard way. You'd think by now they'd be using n-butyl rubber lines or something that will hold up to alcohol. Apparently not.
| 892 |
MJ Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:27:33am |
Jimmy Carter's friends:
Hamas Leader Denies Nazi Genocide of Jews
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) -- A Hamas spiritual leader on Monday called teaching Palestinian children about the Nazi murder of 6 million Jews a ''war crime,'' rejecting a reported U.N. proposal to include the Holocaust in Gaza's school curriculum.
A senior Israeli official said such statements should make the West think twice about ending its boycott of Hamas, in place since the group seized Gaza by force in 2007...
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Of course it won't make a particle of difference to Jimmy Carter or his antisemitic ilk. Won't matter to that third world country known as Great Britain either.
| 894 |
aggieann Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:27:56am |
re: #744 MandyManners
What's a golfer's favorite lunch?
A club sandwich.
Hat-tip to The Kid.
What's a golfer's favorite beverage/
Tee.
| 895 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:28:10am |
re: #822 opnion
Yes "A NAtional Day of Service"
Didn't something significant happen on that day? let me think.
He is using the anniversary of the murder of thousands as a day to promote his fucking health care reform and his fucking community organizing.
| 896 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:28:33am |
re: #885 vxbush
I was pregnant with my firstborn, still having horrible morning sickness, when I had to do dissection in biology in college. Formaldehyde still makes me violently ill.
Aww - I'm not surprised!
At least we were allowed to do actual dissections - nowadays, so I'm told, its deemed to be 'unsafe' for the students ... the poor dears might actually cut themselves, or get a disease, huh!
| 897 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:28:35am |
re: #888 Radicchio ad Absurdum
No, both Briggs and Stratton apparently were.
Found herself a new Lawnboy.
You live and learn.
| 898 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:28:46am |
re: #873 SasquatchOnSteroids
Must be fuel lines and the pickup filter. Not sure, but my guess.
Oh those tubes, I had the impression they were larger tubes.
| 899 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:29:18am |
re: #823 Danny
Good morning all. Monday's tip for the day: don't buy mowers with Tecumseh engines on them. Tecumseh engines suck.
In bed.
| 900 |
kansas Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:29:27am |
re: #874 LoquaciousLady
Has this been discussed yet this morning? I'm a little perplexed that Schumer is saying this.
An opportunity to say the right thing while not doing anything. That's Chuck.
| 901 |
Lincolntf Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:29:28am |
Alright, I've been looking at the OFA site for a bit. I know it describes itself as a "project of the Democratic National Committee" and not of any candidate, but gimme a break. It's all Obama, on every page. You even sign in to get your "BO" name/password. The front page has an "Obama Everywhere" link list, an "Obama Mobile phone" thing (text HOPE to ###), a BO quote at the top, etc.
In my judgment, it is Obama's blog, no matter what the fine print says.
| 902 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:29:52am |
re: #876 Danny
You mean the bowl gasket, or the float pin seat?
Pin seat, I can never remember which end goes in first - the ridged or smooth.
| 903 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:29:58am |
I ain't never gonna' catch up but I'm gonna' have fun trying.
| 904 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:30:17am |
re: #890 turn
Thanks yma, are you saying I should walk him on the lead?
Yes indeed! and no more than ten, fifteen minutes.
Madame hated it, but as she was incapacitated it didn't matter so much that she wasn't allowed to run.
It will be the same with Luke.
This way he'll heal faster, and won't get any after effects.
| 905 |
Danny Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:30:47am |
re: #902 turn
Pin seat, I can never remember which end goes in first - the ridged or smooth.
Thanks, I'll proceed with caution.
| 906 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:31:36am |
re: #902 turn
Pin seat, I can never remember which end goes in first - the ridged or smooth.
Always remember how you take them out. Have a good book on hand that details the steps and process. I believe Haynes has similar series on small engines like they do for cars.
| 907 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:32:19am |
While we're on engines, we had a gas weed whacker in the basement from the previous owner. At least 10 years old. Put gas/oil in it, and it took a few tries, but did start and still works. But it was stored without gas.
The brand is "Echo", so consider that when buying one.
| 908 |
srb1976 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:32:33am |
re: #893 vxbush
24 and severely disabled. So he can't read himself.
I was just curious...One of my favorite books to read out loud (to the Little Man mostly) has always been Kipling's Just So Stories...was going to reccomend it if you think they would enjoy it...the language is a little dated...but fun
| 909 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:32:49am |
re: #898 turn
Oh those tubes, I had the impression they were larger tubes.
I really have no idea. But I have cash and a good mechanic near me.
Problems solved.
| 910 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:32:58am |
re: #903 MandyManners
I ain't never gonna' catch up but I'm gonna' have fun trying.
Thats the spirit, Mandy!
:-)))
| 911 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:32:59am |
re: #892 MJ
Jimmy Carter's friends:
Hamas Leader Denies Nazi Genocide of Jews
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Of course it won't make a particle of difference to Jimmy Carter or his antisemitic ilk. Won't matter to that third world country known as Great Britain either.
Tomorrow marks the 70th anniversary of the beginning of World War II, of all things.
| 912 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:32:59am |
re: #841 haakondahl
It used to be Obama for America, one of the campaign organizations. Perhaps lawhawk or one of our other legal sorts can find out if the org has been spun-off properly, as I suspect it must have been. These people aren't exactly straight, but they aren't exactly stupid, either.
FCBBHO's on a perpetual campaign.
| 913 |
Ward Cleaver Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:33:10am |
re: #881 turn
I had a briggs on the Snapper before I replaced it with the Honda. The friggin thing had the worst ridge I'd ever seen after only two years. You couldn't even get the piston out, it was junk.
My mom used to have a Snapper (push) with a 3.5hp Tecumseh on it. I loved that mower (I would go over to her house regularly and mow the yard), and the damn thing lasted over 20 years. I considered re-engining it with a Honda GXV140, but I really wanted a self-propelled, so I ended up buying a Honda Masters. I bought the Honda over the phone from a power equipment company in Colorado, since their price was about $250 less than the local dealers.
| 914 |
Pianobuff Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:33:11am |
Remember a short while back when the media was pushing the story about Tom Ridge saying that the terror threat levels were raised for political reasons?
Looks like that never happened now...
Ridge backpedals on pressure to raise terror alert level
I wonder if the media will cover the retraction as forcefully as they covered the initial charges.
Actually, I don't wonder.
| 916 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:33:20am |
re: #882 vxbush
However, I can almost guarantee what he's going to do today: he found a book that he loves reading to the son, and so he's been reading at least five chapters a day to him. I've never seen him this excited to read to the Dude; I'm always the reader.
It's nice. And the Dude really likes it.
Very cool, I'm a reader Dad, too. For anyone who wants their kids to know something of 9/11 as we come up on the anniversary without overloading them on graphic images or thoughts, etc., I can recommend two books. The Little Chapel that Stood is a beautiful story about St. Paul's Chapel in the shadows of the twin towers and focuses on the heroism of that day. 14 Cows for America details the true story of a Kenyan student who was in NYC on 9/11 and brings the horrible story home to his remote Masaai village. They offer up what they value to comfort the great land they don't even know.
| 917 |
Danny Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:33:44am |
Alright, gotta make some money now. And no, not in bed (I wish).
| 918 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:33:44am |
re: #889 reloadingisnotahobby
The Governor buys me Honda Commercial mowers!
My first one lasted twelve years!
I love my new 0 turn radius mower(home) It takes
me 45 minutes to mow 3/4 of an acre!!
Has a beer can holder...Did I say I love it!!
Very Smokey dark day here in Central Utah!
These " Managed fires" become "Unmanaged" BDQ!
Dumb asses let them burn for month before the
"Oh shit,It's out of control"People are losing their dream homes now!
ha, A beer holder is a must! I didn't hear about htose fires in UT - I'll go google that.
| 919 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:34:07am |
re: #744 MandyManners
What's a golfer's favorite lunch?
A club sandwich.
Hat-tip to The Kid.
Q: Why did the golfer eat his club?
A: It was a sandwedge.
| 920 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:34:36am |
re: #883 SasquatchOnSteroids
I got a John Deere letter one time. Wasn't taking proper care of the Snapper.
//
In bed.
| 921 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:34:59am |
re: #919 Spare O'Lake
Q: Why did the golfer eat his club?
A: It was a sandwedge.
Golfers make better putters.
| 924 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:35:37am |
re: #897 SasquatchOnSteroids
Found herself a new Lawnboy.
You live and learn.
Weed all probably whacker if given the chance.
| 925 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:35:46am |
re: #918 turn
New Harmony ,Utah!
Awesome homes and ranchettes!
Right along I-15 below Cedar City!!
| 926 |
Ben Hur Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:35:59am |
re: #892 MJ
Jimmy Carter's friends:
Hamas Leader Denies Nazi Genocide of Jews
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Of course it won't make a particle of difference to Jimmy Carter or his antisemitic ilk. Won't matter to that third world country known as Great Britain either.
Probably a monkey see monkey do (as everything they do) reaction to this:
[Link: www.jpost.com...]
| 927 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:36:05am |
re: #920 MandyManners
In bed.
Note to self. Break out the clue-by-four the next time JamesTKirk shows up for re-starting that meme.
///
| 928 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:37:14am |
re: #904 yma o hyd
Yes indeed! and no more than ten, fifteen minutes.
Madame hated it, but as she was incapacitated it didn't matter so much that she wasn't allowed to run.
It will be the same with Luke.
This way he'll heal faster, and won't get any after effects.
Ok thanks so much yma. Whenever I get sore I've found it best to work it out too.
| 930 |
Danny Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:37:39am |
re: #927 BlueCanuck
Hey Blue, how hard is it to replace the alternator on a 16 hp Briggs commercial grade?
| 931 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:37:46am |
| 932 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:38:25am |
| 933 |
Pianobuff Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:38:45am |
Yooo Hooo Mandy...?
Look who is on Letterman this Wednesday night.
| 934 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:39:12am |
re: #892 MJ
Jimmy Carter's friends:
Hamas Leader Denies Nazi Genocide of Jews
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) -- A Hamas spiritual leader on Monday called teaching Palestinian children about the Nazi murder of 6 million Jews a ''war crime,'' rejecting a reported U.N. proposal to include the Holocaust in Gaza's school curriculum.A senior Israeli official said such statements should make the West think twice about ending its boycott of Hamas, in place since the group seized Gaza by force in 2007...
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Of course it won't make a particle of difference to Jimmy Carter or his antisemitic ilk. Won't matter to that third world country known as Great Britain either.
Disgusting. So this Hamasshole considers teaching people about the Holocaust a "war crime"? Absolutely disgusting.
| 935 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:39:15am |
re: #930 Danny
In my experience...It's about a 12 pack job...
W/ moderate cursing...LOL
| 936 |
vxbush Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:39:21am |
re: #908 srb1976
I was just curious...One of my favorite books to read out loud (to the Little Man mostly) has always been Kipling's Just So Stories...was going to reccomend it if you think they would enjoy it...the language is a little dated...but fun
Noted. And yes, he might like them.
| 937 |
srb1976 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:39:23am |
Good news on the injured puppy front...our puglet gets her stitches out next week, and even the vet has high hopes that she will still be able to see out of that eye!!
| 938 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:39:27am |
re: #924 turn
Weed all probably whacker if given the chance.
Everyone gets two-strokes.
Get in line.
| 939 |
ladycatnip Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:39:58am |
OT
If there are any medical scientists here, please explain this Reuters piece on swine flu: New flu hit estimated 10 percent of New Yorkers
The new H1N1 swine flu is estimated to have infected about 800,000 people in New York City in the spring, a top U.S. health official said on Sunday, citing a study due to be released later this week.
Ok, the CDC came out with a warning on 9/26/09 that the U.S.will have 90,000 casualties of swine flu this fall. Well, if 800,000 were infected last spring what happened to all the fatalities? I don't recall any reports of mass deaths in NY last spring. What gives?
| 940 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:40:09am |
re: #930 Danny
I wouldn't know. I never worked on an engine that large. I did most of my work with smaller ones. Quick question though. What is it used on? Blower, riding mower?
| 941 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:40:53am |
re: #928 turn
Ok thanks so much yma. Whenever I get sore I've found it best to work it out too.
Yep - but gently does it!
You can't tell a dog not to chase, be it balls or squirrels, if thats what they do when off the lead!
Thats why the alpha male (you!) or alpha female (Mrs turn!) has to take over and put their paws down (i.e. use the lead ...!).
Dogs can be very stoical when they get injured - especially if they are very energetic in their exercise.
| 942 |
NJDhockeyfan Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:41:00am |
re: #912 MandyManners
FCBBHO's on a perpetual campaign.
...spreading his message of Hope & Perpetual Change.
| 944 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:41:14am |
re: #937 srb1976
Good news on the injured puppy front...our puglet gets her stitches out next week, and even the vet has high hopes that she will still be able to see out of that eye!!
| 945 |
vxbush Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:41:21am |
re: #925 reloadingisnotahobby
New Harmony ,Utah!
Awesome homes and ranchettes!
Right along I-15 below Cedar City!!
Any connection to New Harmony, Indiana?
| 946 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:41:21am |
re: #938 SasquatchOnSteroids
Everyone gets two-strokes.
Get in line.
But some of us are more privliged and get the full four strokes required. :)
/insert the four cycle joke here...
| 947 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:41:28am |
re: #927 BlueCanuck
Note to self. Break out the clue-by-four the next time JamesTKirk shows up for re-starting that meme.
///
In bed.
| 948 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:41:55am |
re: #913 Ward Cleaver
My mom used to have a Snapper (push) with a 3.5hp Tecumseh on it. I loved that mower (I would go over to her house regularly and mow the yard), and the damn thing lasted over 20 years. I considered re-engining it with a Honda GXV140, but I really wanted a self-propelled, so I ended up buying a Honda Masters. I bought the Honda over the phone from a power equipment company in Colorado, since their price was about $250 less than the local dealers.
You won't be dissapointed with the Honda. I bought a Husky hedge trimmer over the internet and they couldn't ship it to California. I had to have it shipped to our Chicago office and they forwarded it on to me That thing really gets with the program. I've gone all Husky, weed whacker, blower, trimmer and chain saw.
| 949 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:42:16am |
re: #935 reloadingisnotahobby
In my experience...It's about a 12 pack job...
W/ moderate cursing...LOL
In bed? Must be one helluva job.
| 950 |
Ben Hur Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:42:19am |
What We Are Learning About the Era of Obama
But suddenly we are seeing a much more genuine form of community organizing. The team parties and town halls are not union-bussed in affairs. There are no federally-subsidized ACORN-like printed posters. Most are spontaneous protestors and dissidents, who don’t want to give up their private health care plans or endanger their Medicare privileges.
For this defiance they have been dubbed Neanderthals, mobs, unpatriotic, Nazis, and brown shirts. Community organizing and popular protest has gone from being seen as 1960s romance during the Bush years to sinister 1930s-like agitation in Italy and Germany. But the only thing that has changed is that now the community organizers are the establishment, and they don’t like being community organized. So once again, like raising taxes, we see that protest was always only a means to an ends, not an intrinsically necessary form of popular outrage.
snip
No more lobbyists meant more than ever. Fiscal sobriety means $9 trillion more in borrowing. “Cash for clunkers” translates into borrowing millions to destroy perfectly good autos to allow down payments for consumers to go more in debt to buy imported compacts. “Stimulus” means more borrowing and little stimulation. Health-care reform envisions those who run the DMV or the cash for clunkers program deciding whether you really need that MRI for the lump on your neck.
snip
Just as feminism has descended into abortion rights (“for it” means that an aristocratic millionaire who married into a corporate fortune is a grass-roots feminist; “against it” means that a mom of five who came up from Wasilla is not a feminist), so too “minority” means nothing much at all these days.
Obama was the proof of the pudding. He was only half-African, but according to our Civil War-era race thinking that made him “black” — although he shared nothing in common with the black experience. He was not “African-American” at all, and without anyone in his family who had been born black in America. We know nothing about his undergraduate transcript in part because of fears the right will demagogue it, wanting to know how his record translated into admission to Harvard Law School.
Affirmative action is a sort of cruel joke: Barack Obama, schooled in prep school and raised as a middle class kid by white grandparents, is a “minority” in a way that a poor, jet-black Punjabi immigrant, a lower-class white kid from Tulare, or an Arab-American daughter of a taxi-driver is not, at least for purposes of government set-asides.
And add the politics: a right-wing African-American is considered inauthentic; but a liberal African-American is deserving of reparations. A black Reaganite who grew up under Jim Crow in the South and overcame vile racism to become a professional is now considered less “black” than someone near-white, who grew up in the 1960s North, and received identity-politics deference. No, minority has not much to do any more with racial discrimination, but everything to do with careerism and politics.
| 951 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:42:24am |
re: #937 srb1976
Good news on the injured puppy front...our puglet gets her stitches out next week, and even the vet has high hopes that she will still be able to see out of that eye!!
Aww - I missed that, about your puglet!
I'm so glad things are looking up - keep us updated!
| 952 |
srb1976 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:42:28am |
| 953 |
Ward Cleaver Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:42:34am |
re: #907 Kosh's Shadow
While we're on engines, we had a gas weed whacker in the basement from the previous owner. At least 10 years old. Put gas/oil in it, and it took a few tries, but did start and still works. But it was stored without gas.
The brand is "Echo", so consider that when buying one.
I have an Echo (SRM-2400, straight-shaft), and really like it, even though it's a pain to start. I usually store it over winter without any gas, I just pull the spark plug, quirt a little motor oil in the cylinder, and pull the rope a couple of times (like I do with all my equipment). if I was buying one now, I'd buy a four-cycle, as they're much quieter than two-cycle. The four-strokes have come way down in price (the first wer built by Honda, and they originally sold for $400).
| 954 |
Dianna Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:42:35am |
Good morning!
What did I miss, over the weekend?
| 955 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:42:49am |
re: #943 Danny
Riding mower. Grazer 62 inch ZTR.
Okay the good news is that it's easier then a car. The bad news is it's just as finicky as a car. Expect scraped and bruised knuckles.
| 956 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:43:31am |
| 957 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:43:39am |
re: #933 Pianobuff
Yooo Hooo Mandy...?
Look who is on Letterman this Wednesday night.
Goshdarn fucking Letterman is a fucking propagandist for FCBBHO.
| 958 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:43:39am |
re: #939 ladycatnip
Ok, the CDC came out with a warning on 9/26/09 that the U.S.will have 90,000 casualties of swine flu this fall. Well, if 800,000 were infected last spring what happened to all the fatalities? I don't recall any reports of mass deaths in NY last spring. What gives?
Our doc said the fatality rate was a big hype, but the contagiousness and the speed of this thing was not. Might not kill millions, but will shut down schools and offices this year.
| 959 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:43:42am |
re: #946 BlueCanuck
But some of us are more privliged and get the full four strokes required. :)
/insert the four cycle joke here...
What a wankel. Your four-cycle joke rotaries around a lot.
| 960 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:44:26am |
re: #952 srb1976
I love it!!! Pugs are the best!
Mini me loves that link. I have to show it to him daily.
Love that thing. Happy for you and your dog.
| 961 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:44:30am |
| 962 |
vxbush Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:44:54am |
re: #961 turn
Ok, I've seen that too many times now and I still don't get it. help?
Running gag, I believe, which we can blame on JamesTKirk for starting.
| 963 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:45:02am |
Test - Pop up Quiz - please all return to your seats!
| 964 |
Danny Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:45:16am |
re: #955 BlueCanuck
Yeah, the hardest part's just getting to the damn thing.
OK, gotta do some work for real. BBL.
| 965 |
loquaciouslady Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:45:20am |
re: #957 MandyManners
Goshdarn fucking Letterman is a fucking propagandist for FCBBHO.
That's sweetly put!
| 966 |
SixDegrees Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:45:28am |
re: #939 ladycatnip
OT
If there are any medical scientists here, please explain this Reuters piece on swine flu: New flu hit estimated 10 percent of New Yorkers
Ok, the CDC came out with a warning on 9/26/09 that the U.S.will have 90,000 casualties of swine flu this fall. Well, if 800,000 were infected last spring what happened to all the fatalities? I don't recall any reports of mass deaths in NY last spring. What gives?
Casualties and deaths are two different things. Last year, for example, there were 800,000 casualties; this year, apparently, there will roughly 10% of that total.
Swine flu doesn't seem to be particularly deadly, although the mortality rate seems to vary quite a bit. Could be different variants, or just normal random fluctuations in the data. But at this point, it's low on my list of worries.
| 967 |
NJDhockeyfan Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:45:41am |
| 968 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:46:44am |
| 969 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:47:04am |
re: #962 vxbush
Running gag, I believe, which we can blame on JamesTKirk for starting.
Old internet meme. Goes along the line all chinese fortune cookies fortunes can be made even funnier by adding "In bed" to the end of them.
| 970 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:47:06am |
From the same NYT article:
Many Palestinians are reluctant to acknowledge Jewish suffering, fearing it might diminish their own.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Yep. Palis jealously defend their monopoly on victimhood.
| 971 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:47:07am |
| 972 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:47:31am |
re: #963 realwest
Test - Pop up Quiz - please all return to your seats!
May I be excused ?
Dog ate my homework.
| 973 |
jcm Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:47:36am |
Mornin' Honcos!
Who's the DI for that batch of hatchlings?
Things are slipping, I don't have my coffee yet!
| 974 |
MandyManners Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:47:41am |
re: #956 yma o hyd
Time for you to get up and deal with your shoes, young lady!
:-)))
Laundry this morning.
| 975 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:48:14am |
re: #938 SasquatchOnSteroids
Everyone gets two-strokes.
Get in line.
Ok, it's going to be a gas throttling her. I'm winding out just thinking about it, I'm smoking.
| 976 |
Ward Cleaver Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:48:17am |
re: #948 turn
You won't be dissapointed with the Honda. I bought a Husky hedge trimmer over the internet and they couldn't ship it to California. I had to have it shipped to our Chicago office and they forwarded it on to me That thing really gets with the program. I've gone all Husky, weed whacker, blower, trimmer and chain saw.
I've had my Honda Masters for seven years now, and I really like it. The only issue I've head (other than having to replace one tire), was getting trash in the carburetor. I added an inline bronze fuel filter (replace every year) to cure that. It's got the hydrostatic transmission (the Honda Masters all used shaft drive, so no drive belts to wear out), so it has infinitely variable self-propulsion, and the roto-stop blade break clutch, so you don't have stop and restart the thing every time you empty the grass catcher.
| 977 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:48:18am |
| 980 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:49:39am |
re: #963 realwest
Test - Pop up Quiz - please all return to your seats!
Fzzzngh...wha!? Uh... x squared plus 3x minus 9! The Battle of Gettysburg! Holden's sister said the song was was "coming through the rye," not "catching!"
| 981 |
MJ Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:50:06am |
Change you can believe in:
U.S. Meetings With Lobbyists Go Unreported
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
| 984 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:51:38am |
re: #941 yma o hyd
Yep - but gently does it!
You can't tell a dog not to chase, be it balls or squirrels, if thats what they do when off the lead!
Thats why the alpha male (you!) or alpha female (Mrs turn!) has to take over and put their paws down (i.e. use the lead ...!).
Dogs can be very stoical when they get injured - especially if they are very energetic in their exercise.
I'm worried about him jumping, you should see him jump for me when I get home. I call him the bouncing boob. Soemday I'll take a video of me coming out of the house to take him on a walk along the American and post it on youtube for you. You're going to get a real kick out of it.
| 985 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:51:42am |
re: #976 Ward Cleaver
Hydrostatic transmissions are great. Tore a couple apart and reassembled them as part of school. Of course they were considered NS once we did that. Having dealt with belts and pullies a lot, a shaft drive was a dream. Very little for a shop mechanic to do.
| 986 |
unrealizedviewpoint Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:52:11am |
re: #901 Lincolntf
Alright, I've been looking at the OFA site for a bit. I know it describes itself as a "project of the Democratic National Committee" and not of any candidate, but gimme a break. It's all Obama, on every page. You even sign in to get your "BO" name/password. The front page has an "Obama Everywhere" link list, an "Obama Mobile phone" thing (text HOPE to ###), a BO quote at the top, etc.
In my judgment, it is Obama's blog, no matter what the fine print says.
A simple disclaimer permits the Administration to disavow all responsibility? If this were a product liability claim being made it wouldn't work.
| 987 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:52:38am |
| 988 |
srb1976 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:52:40am |
Yummy...heart attack on a plate for breakfast to celebrate being suspended from work with pay!!
Bacon, over-medium eggs (cooked in bacon grease) and toast with real butter...mmm
| 989 |
Rancher Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:52:50am |
Flying Pig Moment?
On a Saturday morning in late August, while country was away on summer vacation and those who closely watch politics were watching Ted Kennedy's funeral, the Washington Post quietly hung up the mainstream media's white flag on the CIA's harsh interrogation tactics. It turns out, they work — who knew?
Pssst, Don't Tell Anyone But the CIA's Enhanced Interrogation Techniques Worked
| 990 |
Ben Hur Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:53:02am |
re: #981 MJ
Change you can believe in:
U.S. Meetings With Lobbyists Go Unreported
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
That's the reason for this:
Also the reason the NYC Co-op boards don't take meeting minutes.
| 991 |
NJDhockeyfan Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:53:23am |
I wonder if this will prompt changes of searches at the airport.
Saudi tightens security to protect oil plants
KHOBAR, Saudi Arabia: Saudi Arabia has tightened security at oil facilities after the country's anti-terror chief, Deputy Interior Minister Prince Mohammed bin Nayef, escaped a suicide attack, guards at Abqaiq, the world's biggest oil processing plant, said yesterday.
...
A statement posted on jihadist forums by Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula said Al Asiri passed through checkpoints at Najran airport, near the Yemeni border, and Jeddah airport, the US monitoring service said.
He then boarded Prince Mohammed's private jet with his explosives, according to the statement, which said he finally blew himself up amongst the prince's guards. The site also published a picture of Asiri.
Saudi-owned Al Arabiya TV said Asiri was a 23-year-old Saudi whose brother Ibrahim was also on the wanted list.
It said the attacker concealed the explosives in his anus, allowing him to evade detection.
| 992 |
Ben Hur Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:53:44am |
re: #989 Rancher
Flying Pig Moment?
Pssst, Don't Tell Anyone But the CIA's Enhanced Interrogation Techniques Worked
Threadworthy.
/
| 993 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:54:06am |
re: #971 sattv4u2
What kind of man are you?! Just prick your finger and use blood!
| 994 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:54:46am |
re: #952 srb1976
I love it!!! Pugs are the best!
Aww, those pugs are so cute. I'm going to try and convice the turnwife to get one when Willie dies.
| 995 |
Pianobuff Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:55:41am |
Depending on one's point of view, Palin is either going mainstream or the CLSA Investors Forum has turned into a Death Panel fringe organization. You make the call...
The former Alaska governor will visit Hong Kong to address the CLSA Investors Forum, a well-known annual conference of global investment managers, the host announced Monday.
Bill Clinton, Al Gore and Alan Greenspan have spoken at the event, hosted by brokerage and investment group CLSA Asia-Pacific Markets.
"Our keynote speakers are notable luminaries who often address topics that go beyond traditional finance such as geopolitics," company spokeswoman Simone Wheeler said in a statement.
"We just felt it would be a fabulous opportunity for CLSA clients to hear from Mrs. Palin," Wheeler said, adding that CLSA approached Palin with the offer.
She said the conference aimed to present investors "a diversity of views that potentially influence decision-makers who help shape the markets."
| 996 |
saberry0530 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:55:44am |
re: #993 realwest
What kind of man are you?! Just prick your finger and use blood!
UPDING for no sarc tag
| 997 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:56:00am |
re: #954 Dianna
Good morning!
What did I miss, over the weekend?
Me :.) Morning Dianna. That creepy kidnapper wasn't too far from your work huh
| 998 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:56:10am |
Sorry about the "pop quiz" folks, but a Norton Techie just finished taking over my machine and thoroughly cleaned out any viruses (virii?) and what not and wanted me to type something so I typed pop quiz.
Now all is ok with my cmputer except I can't find the right background for my destop!!!
| 999 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:56:24am |
re: #993 realwest
What kind of man are you?! Just prick your finger and use blood!
Which would you like me to use !?!?!?!?
| 1000 |
laZardo Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:56:37am |
re: #998 realwest
So does that mean I don't get the bonus points?
| 1001 |
MJ Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:56:47am |
From the leader of the most antisemitic country in Europe:
Bildt: No plan to condemn anti-Semitism
The crisis over the Swedish newspaper article claiming IDF soldiers killed Palestinians and snatched their organs refuses to fade away, with Sweden's Foreign Minister denying a report that his country would work together with Italy to pass a resolution condemning anti-Semitism at an upcoming informal meeting of European foreign ministers...
[Link: www.jpost.com...]
Naturally, Haaretz reported the opposite which only goes to prove that Haaretz never met an antisemite it didn't trust.
| 1002 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:57:16am |
re: #959 Honorary Yooper
What a wankel. Your four-cycle joke rotaries around a lot.
That was a sterling pun yoop
| 1003 |
srb1976 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:57:24am |
re: #994 turn
Aww, those pugs are so cute. I'm going to try and convice the turnwife to get one when Willie dies.
We have 2 now...1 elder statesman (11) and one puglet...they are wonderful house dogs (if you don't mind the shedding and the snoring) and have both done wonderfully with the children as well!
| 1004 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:57:38am |
re: #991 NJDhockeyfan
I wonder if this will prompt changes of searches at the airport.
What an asshole.
| 1005 |
Dianna Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:57:40am |
re: #997 turn
Me :.) Morning Dianna. That creepy kidnapper wasn't too far from your work huh
Eep! A creepy kidnapper?
I've seen no news all weekend. Dinner party for 8 Saturday night ate my life.
| 1007 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:58:01am |
| 1008 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:58:10am |
re: #984 turn
I'm worried about him jumping, you should see him jump for me when I get home. I call him the bouncing boob. Soemday I'll take a video of me coming out of the house to take him on a walk along the American and post it on youtube for you. You're going to get a real kick out of it.
Oh yes please! I'd love to see that 'Bouncing Luke'!
As for now - youv'e got to emply some deviousness here!
either Luke should be kept behind a closed door, if there's nobody at home, so as to prevent his bouncing - or Mrs turn must keep a firm hold on his collar when you come back. Bouncing is a big no-no for the next week!
I know its difficult to keep a dog quiet - we had huge trouble preventing Big Dog from shaking himself, especialy his head, after his cataract operation! And he soo hated the lampshade he had to wear for a week ... but its got to be done!
| 1009 |
saberry0530 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:58:43am |
| 1010 |
Lincolntf Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:58:52am |
re: #989 Rancher
The people who constantly carped "it doesn't work!!!" always somewhat amused me. I mean, why did they think that the interrogators were deliberately doing it the "wrong" way?
Of course harsh interrogation works better than mild interrogation. On what planet do people live where this is not true?
| 1011 |
vxbush Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:58:52am |
re: #1000 laZardo
So does that mean I don't get the bonus points?
Not unless you explain the meaning of the universe.
| 1012 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:59:03am |
re: #1000 laZardo
So does that mean I don't get the bonus points?
Nah, I'll give ya bonus points - you WERE the first one to take your seat!
| 1013 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:59:39am |
re: #976 Ward Cleaver
I've had my Honda Masters for seven years now, and I really like it. The only issue I've head (other than having to replace one tire), was getting trash in the carburetor. I added an inline bronze fuel filter (replace every year) to cure that. It's got the hydrostatic transmission (the Honda Masters all used shaft drive, so no drive belts to wear out), so it has infinitely variable self-propulsion, and the roto-stop blade break clutch, so you don't have stop and restart the thing every time you empty the grass catcher.
Cool, sound spendy.
| 1015 |
jcm Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:00:13am |
re: #998 realwest
Sorry about the "pop quiz" folks, but a Norton Techie just finished taking over my machine and thoroughly cleaned out any viruses (virii?) and what not and wanted me to type something so I typed pop quiz.
Now all is ok with my cmputer except I can't find the right background for my destop!!!
| 1016 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:00:18am |
re: #1005 Dianna
Eep! A creepy kidnapper?
I've seen no news all weekend. Dinner party for 8 Saturday night ate my life.
What did you all cook?
| 1018 |
vxbush Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:00:40am |
Okay, I'm going to raise this again:
Steven D. Levitt, author of Freakonomics, is going to be in the area later in September. I'm debating whether it would be worth my time to go.
Any ideas? I know nothing of this guy.
| 1019 |
srb1976 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:00:54am |
re: #1008 yma o hyd
Oh yes please! I'd love to see that 'Bouncing Luke'!
As for now - youv'e got to emply some deviousness here!
either Luke should be kept behind a closed door, if there's nobody at home, so as to prevent his bouncing - or Mrs turn must keep a firm hold on his collar when you come back. Bouncing is a big no-no for the next week!I know its difficult to keep a dog quiet - we had huge trouble preventing Big Dog from shaking himself, especialy his head, after his cataract operation! And he soo hated the lampshade he had to wear for a week ... but its got to be done!
Puglet is wearing a lampshade now too (3 weeks of eye sewn shut) and not only does she hate it...but it keeps her from being able to see where she's going (she jumps up onto and off of the furniture a good bit)...coupled with no depth perception...she's pretty funny right now
| 1020 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:01:01am |
| 1021 |
vxbush Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:01:44am |
re: #1020 Walter L. Newton
I have a whole new pot brewing in my Nazi coffee maker.
Query: What makes it a Nazi coffee maker?
| 1022 |
debutaunt Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:01:52am |
A young girl was kidnapped by a registered sex pervert who had regular meetings with his parole officer. She gave birth to two daughters while under his control. Here is what Yahoo has to say:
" Jaycee Dugard abduction case highlights failure of psychics."
| 1023 |
lawhawk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:01:55am |
re: #991 NJDhockeyfan
Guess he's going to be the butt of many a joke. /
| 1024 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:02:10am |
| 1027 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:02:34am |
re: #1003 srb1976
We have 2 now...1 elder statesman (11) and one puglet...they are wonderful house dogs (if you don't mind the shedding and the snoring) and have both done wonderfully with the children as well!
All of my dogs snore too! ha
| 1028 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:03:15am |
re: #1020 Walter L. Newton
re: #1014 Dianna
Need coffee!
I have a whole new pot brewing in my Nazi coffee maker.
Let me guess, Krups?
| 1029 |
jcm Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:03:19am |
re: #976 Ward Cleaver
I've had my Honda Masters for seven years now, and I really like it. The only issue I've head (other than having to replace one tire), was getting trash in the carburetor. I added an inline bronze fuel filter (replace every year) to cure that. It's got the hydrostatic transmission (the Honda Masters all used shaft drive, so no drive belts to wear out), so it has infinitely variable self-propulsion, and the roto-stop blade break clutch, so you don't have stop and restart the thing every time you empty the grass catcher.
| 1030 |
NJDhockeyfan Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:03:56am |
re: #1023 lawhawk
Guess he's going to be the butt of many a joke. /
This line is good too...
The network also quoted an expert as saying that the method of concealment aimed the blast away from the target, while blowing the bomber to bits
Heh.
| 1031 |
vxbush Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:04:07am |
I can't make it any longer. I'm starving. Grabbing some food...
| 1032 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:04:21am |
re: #1019 srb1976
Puglet is wearing a lampshade now too (3 weeks of eye sewn shut) and not only does she hate it...but it keeps her from being able to see where she's going (she jumps up onto and off of the furniture a good bit)...coupled with no depth perception...she's pretty funny right now
Lampshades are a menace!
Not only do they make dreadful noises when the dog wearing them hits any object - as you'll have noticed by now, I'm sure! - they also keep hitting one's legs!
Still, they are a necessity - especially when the dogs have had something done to their eyes.
| 1033 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:04:25am |
re: #1008 yma o hyd
Oh yes please! I'd love to see that 'Bouncing Luke'!
As for now - youv'e got to emply some deviousness here!
either Luke should be kept behind a closed door, if there's nobody at home, so as to prevent his bouncing - or Mrs turn must keep a firm hold on his collar when you come back. Bouncing is a big no-no for the next week!I know its difficult to keep a dog quiet - we had huge trouble preventing Big Dog from shaking himself, especialy his head, after his cataract operation! And he soo hated the lampshade he had to wear for a week ... but its got to be done!
Good advice, thanks.
| 1034 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:04:32am |
re: #1028 Spenser (with an S) No, silly, Messerchmit! (sp?!)
| 1035 |
lawhawk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:04:32am |
re: #1022 debutaunt
No. It was a failure of law enforcement that started with his serving only 10 years of a 50 year sentence in a rape case that eerily foreshadowed Jaycee's own kidnapping at the hands of the brutal Garrido.
They should never have released him from prison. And even after the release, law enforcement failed because there were opportunities to search his home, and they didn't do so.
| 1036 |
jcm Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:05:05am |
re: #1020 Walter L. Newton
I have a whole new pot brewing in my Nazi coffee maker.
Do you take your coffee with siegur?
| 1037 |
srb1976 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:05:16am |
re: #1027 turn
All of my dogs snore too! ha
Our elder statesman snore so loud he literally rattles the wall when he lays against it (it's most likely an elongated soft palate...but he doesn't seem to have any other ill-effects from it, so we left it alone)
| 1038 |
NJDhockeyfan Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:05:17am |
re: #1031 vxbush
I can't make it any longer. I'm starving. Grabbing some food...
I just ate 3 fried eggs smothered with cheese & bacon sitting on buttered toast.
Yum!
| 1039 |
debutaunt Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:05:20am |
re: #1031 vxbush
I can't make it any longer. I'm starving. Grabbing some food...
Dianna has a fresh pot of coffee!
| 1040 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:05:23am |
| 1041 |
lawhawk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:05:33am |
re: #1028 Spenser (with an S)
Well, it certainly isn't a Junkers, given that it works. /
| 1042 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:05:37am |
re: #1022 debutaunt
A young girl was kidnapped by a registered sex pervert who had regular meetings with his parole officer. She gave birth to two daughters while under his control. Here is what Yahoo has to say:" Jaycee Dugard abduction case highlights failure of psychics."
You know, it may not be fair, but people have lost their jobs for much less than this. Parole Officer and both cops who showed up that day should be gone, IMO.
| 1043 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:05:59am |
re: #1026 vxbush
Hi vxbush! Uh, what's 42 and why is it worth bonus points?!
| 1044 |
wrenchwench Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:06:06am |
re: #1038 NJDhockeyfan
I just ate 3 fried eggs smothered with cheese & bacon sitting on buttered toast.
Yum!
Is that toast comfortable to sit on?
| 1045 |
srb1976 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:06:40am |
re: #1032 yma o hyd
Lampshades are a menace!
Not only do they make dreadful noises when the dog wearing them hits any object - as you'll have noticed by now, I'm sure! - they also keep hitting one's legs!Still, they are a necessity - especially when the dogs have had something done to their eyes.
Oh yes...I bruised my shin pretty badly at work the other day (large stack of steel plates fell and slid down my shin)...and she is a small dog, so she slams the lampshade into the bruise ALOT!!
| 1047 |
Sharmuta Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:07:05am |
re: #1035 lawhawk
They should never have released him from prison. And even after the release, law enforcement failed because there were opportunities to search his home, and they didn't do so.
A lot of women and children end up dead because serial offenders are let out of jail. It's disgusting
| 1048 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:07:12am |
re: #1009 saberry0530
SOunds as cold as I.C.E. to me.
I'll have to intake that comment, compress it down to the essentials, expand my mind a bit, and wait for a response to spark.
| 1050 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:07:51am |
Mercury Marine Rejects Union’s Hasty 2nd Vote
The union representing 850 workers at Mercury Marine scrapped plans Sunday for a last-minute, second vote on a new contract after the company said it wouldn't honor ballots cast after midnight.
Workers voted last week to reject wage and benefit concessions the boat engine maker demanded to keep jobs in Fond du Lac. Mercury Marine said then that it would move jobs to a nonunion plant in Oklahoma.
We are the Union, the mighty greedy Union!
/buh bye now!
| 1051 |
lawhawk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:07:58am |
800,000 New Yorkers had swine flu according to health officials. Only 47 died of complications from the swine flu. That means that 1 in 10 New Yorkers got the swine flu, but it had a very low fatality rate.
The concern is that this virulent form could mutate into a much more deadly form. That's why the need to be vigilant is an absolute must. Early detection and precautions are needed so that if there is an outbreak, health officials can be ready to provide guidance and assistance.
| 1052 |
srb1976 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:08:01am |
re: #1043 realwest
Hi vxbush! Uh, what's 42 and why is it worth bonus points?!
Real, It's only the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything!!! ( there is still some debate as to the correct question, but 42 is definitely the answer)
| 1053 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:08:15am |
re: #1034 realwest
re: #1028 Spenser (with an S) No, silly, Messerchmit! (sp?!)
LOL. We could never think of getting a Mitsubishi because my wife's grandfather spent a few months on "the 'canal" jumping into foxholes when the Mitsubishi bombers showed up. Completely different company but we didn't want to even approach that line.
| 1054 |
Ben Hur Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:08:21am |
| 1055 |
Pianobuff Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:08:28am |
Wow - there's a company that's merchandising tassle-nipple tee shirts for tykes.
Isn't that a bit young?
| 1056 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:09:34am |
re: #1043 realwest
Hi vxbush! Uh, what's 42 and why is it worth bonus points?!
Douglas Adams punchline to a group of his novels starting with "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy". What was the meaning of life, the universe, and everything? The answer was 42. Of course, it didn't make sense because they needed the question.
| 1057 |
turn Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:09:42am |
later - work. Play nice. What happened to Diego?
| 1058 |
debutaunt Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:09:52am |
re: #1035 lawhawk
No. It was a failure of law enforcement that started with his serving only 10 years of a 50 year sentence in a rape case that eerily foreshadowed Jaycee's own kidnapping at the hands of the brutal Garrido.
They should never have released him from prison. And even after the release, law enforcement failed because there were opportunities to search his home, and they didn't do so.
It's just horrifying to read what has happened to that girl. It's even worse to see Yahoo trivialize it.
| 1059 |
itellu3times Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:10:03am |
No Rush on the radio in Los Angles this morn, broadcasting all the fire all the time. Boogers.
| 1060 |
kansas Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:10:28am |
re: #1059 itellu3times
No Rush on the radio in Los Angles this morn, broadcasting all the fire all the time. Boogers.
Mark Davis anyway. I turned it off.
| 1061 |
Ben Hur Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:10:32am |
| 1062 |
vxbush Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:10:57am |
re: #1043 realwest
Hi vxbush! Uh, what's 42 and why is it worth bonus points?!
You need to read up on your Douglas Adams.
| 1063 |
jcm Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:11:00am |
re: #1050 Killian Bundy
Mercury Marine Rejects Union’s Hasty 2nd Vote
We are the Union, the mighty greedy Union!
/buh bye now!
WEA is striking two school districts in WA, State.
Recession, $8 Billion State deficit something like half the state budget is education. Strikes by public employees in WA is illegal.
| 1064 |
CyanSnowHawk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:11:02am |
Nice new 'reply' and 'quote' buttons. Charles has been busy this weekend. Is he trying to distract himself from the fires?
Did he drop the (Closed) tag on the registration link too?
| 1065 |
itellu3times Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:11:24am |
| 1066 |
unrealizedviewpoint Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:11:47am |
re: #1035 lawhawk
No. It was a failure of law enforcement that started with his serving only 10 years of a 50 year sentence in a rape case that eerily foreshadowed Jaycee's own kidnapping at the hands of the brutal Garrido.
They should never have released him from prison. And even after the release, law enforcement failed because there were opportunities to search his home, and they didn't do so.
So who (I want names) is responsible for this guy getting out after only having served 20% of his sentence? Can we expect Jessie Waters (spelling?) to ambush the culprit responsible?
| 1067 |
Spenser (with an S) Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:11:49am |
| 1068 |
jcm Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:12:31am |
re: #1064 CyanSnowHawk
Nice new 'reply' and 'quote' buttons. Charles has been busy this weekend. Is he trying to distract himself from the fires?
Did he drop the (Closed) tag on the registration link too?
Registration when clicked tells if it's open or closed...
| 1069 |
kcladderman Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:12:43am |
I just read the funniest thing I have seen in a long time. The Kansas City Star has a voices section in the letters to the editor where you can leave a voice mail. One lady called in and stated the right wing is always complaining about the liberals in congress, there was only one real liberal in congress and sadly now he is gone. All the rest are either right wingers or moderates
| 1070 |
NJDhockeyfan Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:12:59am |
Anyone see the date from hell?
FERNDALE, Mich. (AP) — Police in Michigan say a first date went from bad to worse when a Detroit man skipped out on the restaurant bill, then stole his date's car.
Police say 23-year-old Terrance Dejuan McCoy had dinner with a woman April 24 at Buffalo Wild Wings in the Detroit suburb of Ferndale. The woman says the two met a week earlier at a Detroit casino and she knew McCoy only as "Chris."
The woman told police that McCoy said he left his wallet in her car and asked for keys. He then sped away in the 2000 Chevrolet Impala.
| 1071 |
SixDegrees Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:14:06am |
re: #1042 Spenser (with an S)
You know, it may not be fair, but people have lost their jobs for much less than this. Parole Officer and both cops who showed up that day should be gone, IMO.
I agree that this is sounding very bad. As I heard it, someone called to tell the police that there was a woman and children living in sheds in the backyard. The PO and cops showed up - and interviewed this in his driveway, without ever asking to enter the house or the backyard. Here's how it works in Michigan: as a parolee, you're still under court supervision, administered by the parole officer, who has the right to enter your home at any time and for any reason whatsoever without so much as asking permission, let alone getting a search warrant. They bring the police along because the police are constrained to stay off private property under many circumstances, unless they're specifically granted permission by the homeowner or by a parole or probation officer. I'd be shocked to learn that this is substantially different wherever this took place. Given the past history and a specific complaint, a thorough search of the entire premises, inside and out, would seem to constitute a minimum response.
I keep hoping to hear that this was somehow misreported; it's astonishing and maddening to believe that this really went down as described. If it did, I would hope that the local prosecutor would start shoveling every criminal charge he can come up with into an enormous pile to throw at these yutz, who deserve far more than simply being fired if this story is borne out.
| 1072 |
Radicchio ad Absurdum Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:14:43am |
re: #1070 NJDhockeyfan
Anyone see the date from hell?
Date at Buffalo Wild Wings should have been tip-off to flee the date
| 1073 |
CyanSnowHawk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:15:48am |
re: #1068 jcm
It always has IIRC. Is Charles trying to enable stealth openings that we won't notice?
| 1074 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:16:00am |
re: #1045 srb1976
Oh yes...I bruised my shin pretty badly at work the other day (large stack of steel plates fell and slid down my shin)...and she is a small dog, so she slams the lampshade into the bruise ALOT!!
She would, wouldn't she!
I'm really sorry for you - shin bruises do hurt like heck!
If its any consolation - she is at least not as powerful as our late Big Dog: that hurt every time, bruise or not!
| 1075 |
SixDegrees Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:16:51am |
re: #1047 Sharmuta
A lot of women and children end up dead because serial offenders are let out of jail. It's disgusting
That's another problem; serving 11 years for a 50 year sentence? WTF were they thinking? I'm not entirely opposed to early release, but 20% of a sentence for a serious crime like abduction, imprisonment and rape is far, far too lenient. To my previous list, please add the members of the parole board and approving judge to those who need to have criminal charges brought against them for neglecting their duty and public safety.
| 1076 |
jcm Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:17:08am |
re: #1070 NJDhockeyfan
Anyone see the date from hell?
She was so bad that the poor guy had to do thing to get away?
// ;-P
*DUCKS*
| 1077 |
unrealizedviewpoint Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:18:53am |
From Wiki:
At the Federal level, Megan's Law is known as the Sexual Offender (Jacob Wetterling) Act of 1994, and requires persons convicted of sex crimes against children to notify local law enforcement of any change of address or employment after release from custody (prison or psychiatric facility). The notification requirement may be imposed for a fixed period of time - usually at least ten years - or permanently.
Running the guys license should have brought up his past. No?
| 1078 |
srb1976 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:18:54am |
re: #1074 yma o hyd
She would, wouldn't she!
I'm really sorry for you - shin bruises do hurt like heck!
If its any consolation - she is at least not as powerful as our late Big Dog: that hurt every time, bruise or not!
She too stinkin' cute to stay mad at anyway!
This isn't her...but she looks just like this anyway
Black Pug
| 1079 |
saberry0530 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:19:13am |
re: #1048 turn
I'll have to intake that comment, compress it down to the essentials, expand my mind a bit, and wait for a response to spark.
I say you hit FOUR the Cycle!
| 1080 |
Ward Cleaver Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:19:29am |
re: #1013 turn
Cool, sound spendy.
It was, but I still saved about $200 ($772 versus $969) by not buying it locally. I found the best deal on the Internet (from a place in Colorado Springs), and then ordered it over the phone, and had it shipped UPS. No sales tax, and shipping was only about $50. I hope to use it for at least 20 years, so the money won't be a big deal, spread out over so many years.
| 1081 |
debutaunt Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:19:29am |
re: #1073 CyanSnowHawk
It always has IIRC. Is Charles trying to enable stealth openings that we won't notice?
He's likely making it more difficult for the stalky culters to notice.
| 1082 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:19:33am |
re: #1073 CyanSnowHawk
It always has IIRC. Is Charles trying to enable stealth openings that we won't notice?
I just checked - looks like it, doesn't it!
Mind - since thats the way I crept in, I'm not complaining!
| 1084 |
unrealizedviewpoint Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:20:34am |
re: #1075 SixDegrees
That's another problem; serving 11 years for a 50 year sentence? WTF were they thinking? I'm not entirely opposed to early release, but 20% of a sentence for a serious crime like abduction, imprisonment and rape is far, far too lenient. To my previous list, please add the members of the parole board and approving judge to those who need to have criminal charges brought against them for neglecting their duty and public safety.
The law shields them from charges. Their identities need be known.
| 1085 |
yma o hyd Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:20:50am |
| 1086 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:21:18am |
re: #1063 jcm
Well if Strikes by public employees in WA is illegal, what's gonna happen to the WEA?
And THANKS AGAIN for that photo which is now my screensaver!
| 1087 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:21:34am |
| 1088 |
Sharmuta Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:21:59am |
re: #1075 SixDegrees
That's another problem; serving 11 years for a 50 year sentence? WTF were they thinking? I'm not entirely opposed to early release, but 20% of a sentence for a serious crime like abduction, imprisonment and rape is far, far too lenient. To my previous list, please add the members of the parole board and approving judge to those who need to have criminal charges brought against them for neglecting their duty and public safety.
This is really up to 50 different states. I've already spoken with legislators in my state about changing the laws so these people stay in jail where they belong. Non-violent offenders should be the first ones released. The ones who should never be released ever, for any reason, are the ones who are so sick they will commit another heinous crime- this is government failing us! It is their job to protect us- and they let violent criminal out of jail that destroy families. I know this- I know a family that was destroyed by one of these sick fucks getting let out when he should have been left to rot. He raped and killed again, and why? For what? It's disgusting.
| 1089 |
Flyers1974 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:22:07am |
re: #1010 Lincolntf
The people who constantly carped "it doesn't work!!!" always somewhat amused me. I mean, why did they think that the interrogators were deliberately doing it the "wrong" way?
Of course harsh interrogation works better than mild interrogation. On what planet do people live where this is not true?
I think it is more accurate to say that it works with respect to a guy who has information but is holding out, but that it may also produce bad intelligence, i.e., a guy who tells you what he thinks you want to hear.
| 1090 |
srb1976 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:22:35am |
re: #1085 yma o hyd
Oh sweeet!
Thats one cuddlesome dog - if puglet looks like that, she is extremely cuddleworthy!
She is...older pug is a fawn...puglet is black...and they are both the biggest cuddle puppies in the world...great TV watchin' buddies...both of them = )
| 1091 |
debutaunt Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:22:37am |
re: #1077 unrealizedviewpoint
From Wiki:
Running the guys license should have brought up his past. No?
They knew where he lived. The car he used in the kidnapping was in the back yard!
| 1092 |
Dianna Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:23:14am |
| 1093 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:23:28am |
re: #945 vxbush
Any connection to New Harmony, Indiana?
Could be if Ind ...'s New Harmony had anything to do with
Mormons!
| 1094 |
unrealizedviewpoint Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:23:51am |
re: #1088 Sharmuta
This is really up to 50 different states. I've already spoken with legislators in my state about changing the laws so these people stay in jail where they belong. Non-violent offenders should be the first ones released. The ones who should never be released ever, for any reason, are the ones who are so sick they will commit another heinous crime- this is government failing us! It is their job to protect us- and they let violent criminal out of jail that destroy families. I know this- I know a family that was destroyed by one of these sick fucks getting let out when he should have been left to rot. He raped and killed again, and why? For what? It's disgusting.
I got an idea. How about releasing ALL 1 million folks imprisoned for minor drug offenses. That should make room.
| 1095 |
srb1976 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:23:52am |
re: #1092 Dianna
The Male smoked a turkey.
YUM!...Love smoked turkey, and any leftovers make the best sandwiches too!
| 1096 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:24:53am |
re: #1047 Sharmuta
A lot of women and children end up dead because serial offenders are let out of jail. It's disgusting
That's why many states now have a category of "Sexually Dangerous Person", and, when they're due to be released, there is basically a trial to determine whether they end up committed (it is considered a mental illness) or get freed. It is very hard to get freed if there was any force involved.
I think this is exactly the type of trial my wife is defending this week. She rarely wins.
| 1097 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:24:58am |
re: #1092 Dianna
The Male smoked a turkey.
What type of papers did he use, and how does it compare to Cuban cigars? :)
| 1098 |
vxbush Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:25:24am |
re: #1093 reloadingisnotahobby
Could be if Ind ...'s New Harmony had anything to do with
Mormons!
Not that I'm aware of, not like Quincy, Illinois. But New Harmony was home to Utopians that came from Pennsylvania.
[Link: www-lib.iupui.edu...]
| 1099 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:25:24am |
re: #1048 turn
I'll have to intake that comment, compress it down to the essentials, expand my mind a bit, and wait for a response to spark.
That reply was exhausting.
| 1100 |
eschew_obfuscation Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:25:49am |
| 1101 |
Ben Hur Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:25:58am |
| 1102 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:25:59am |
re: #1094 unrealizedviewpoint Gave you an upding pending your explanation of "minor drug" offenses!
| 1103 |
jcm Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:26:11am |
re: #1086 realwest
Well if Strikes by public employees in WA is illegal, what's gonna happen to the WEA?
And THANKS AGAIN for that photo which is now my screensaver!
School boards are packed with candidates run by the WEA. WEA pours a ton of money into supporting candidate for school boards. So when the election comes around, you got a candidate with name recognition, all bought with WEA money, and a couple of unknowns.
When the strike comes around the school board then is in the WEA's pocket and no one ever invokes the law and fires any striking teachers.
| 1105 |
unrealizedviewpoint Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:26:19am |
re: #1091 debutaunt
They knew where he lived. The car he used in the kidnapping was in the back yard!
My point is, I suspect when the police arrived they (probably) didn't do an identity check. If they had, they would have searched or at a minimum walked onto the property.
| 1106 |
itellu3times Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:26:34am |
re: #1068 jcm
Registration when clicked tells if it's open or closed...
Does it also guess your weight?
/
| 1107 |
Sharmuta Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:26:39am |
re: #1094 unrealizedviewpoint
I got an idea. How about releasing ALL 1 million folks imprisoned for minor drug offenses. That should make room.
I agree completely. But then you have the folks who think smoking a joint is the end of civilization as we know it, so I don't know if we could convince them child molesting/rapist murders are worse. Gotta have priorities, you know.
The bullshit with our criminal justice system, such as this nonsense above, are almost enough for me to run for office myself and correct this shit.
| 1108 |
SixDegrees Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:26:45am |
re: #1084 unrealizedviewpoint
The law shields them from charges. Their identities need be known.
Bring charges anyway. I know there are protections in place, but they all have limits, and a public airing of how this was allowed to happen needs to take place. It will accomplish, at least, dragging this miscreants out into the sunlight, and on this rare occasion my tolerance for nuisance lawsuits is actually increasing dramatically. Maybe civil charges would be more amenable to a win by the prosecution. In any case, some royal hounding is in order here.
| 1110 |
Flyers1974 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:27:32am |
| 1111 |
itellu3times Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:27:37am |
re: #1105 unrealizedviewpoint
My point is, I suspect when the police arrived they (probably) didn't do an identity check. If they had, they would have searched or at a minimum walked onto the property.
I don't know much 'bout no policin', but I'd wager they checked and knew his status.
| 1112 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:28:04am |
re: #988 srb1976
Yummy...heart attack on a plate for breakfast to celebrate being suspended from work with pay!!
Bacon, over-medium eggs (cooked in bacon grease) and toast with real butter...mmm
Suspended from work??
What did ya did to hung??
| 1113 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:28:14am |
re: #1098 vxbush
It appears they came from Harmony, Pennsylvania, which actually is a church history site. Emma Hale Smith lived there, and she met Joseph Smith there, and I think there's some small historical site there. (I've never done the church history tour.)
That said, I don't think the church has any connection to Indiana. Maybe they just both named their city New Harmony after the old one.
| 1115 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:28:48am |
re: #1103 jcm
OK, that I can understand, but if it's a Washington State Law, isn't it the obligation of the Washington STATE officials (AG, Govenor) to enforce the law?
| 1116 |
pat Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:29:17am |
Obama is in a bit of a popularity slide right now. Wonder how he thinks the union thug thing is working out? Shouldn't be too long before Glenn Beck passes him in approvals.
| 1118 |
CyanSnowHawk Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:30:13am |
re: #1097 BlueCanuck
What type of papers did he use, and how does it compare to Cuban cigars? :)
Really, really, really, big Bambu.
| 1119 |
srb1976 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:30:15am |
re: #1112 reloadingisnotahobby
Suspended from work??
What did ya did to hung??
I dropped a stack of samples on my leg...and then hit positive on a drug test...long story, but it's covered by prescription, I'm just waiting for the hair test results, so that they can verify that the scrip is for the same drug that was in my system...then I can go back to work...meantime, I'm still getting paid and it will all be fine...no worries
| 1120 |
Sharmuta Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:30:22am |
re: #1096 Kosh's Shadow
That's why many states now have a category of "Sexually Dangerous Person", and, when they're due to be released, there is basically a trial to determine whether they end up committed (it is considered a mental illness) or get freed. It is very hard to get freed if there was any force involved.
I think this is exactly the type of trial my wife is defending this week. She rarely wins.
Except the family I know-- they were still failed by this categorizing. The man who raped and killed this beautiful young woman was off the charts- he should never have been released back into society. Yet he was. These sick fuckers need life in jail without parole or the death penalty if possible. They are broken- never to be useful to society. Keep them where they belong- where they can't hurt the citizens of this country again.
| 1121 |
SixDegrees Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:30:41am |
re: #1088 Sharmuta
This is really up to 50 different states. I've already spoken with legislators in my state about changing the laws so these people stay in jail where they belong. Non-violent offenders should be the first ones released. The ones who should never be released ever, for any reason, are the ones who are so sick they will commit another heinous crime- this is government failing us! It is their job to protect us- and they let violent criminal out of jail that destroy families. I know this- I know a family that was destroyed by one of these sick fucks getting let out when he should have been left to rot. He raped and killed again, and why? For what? It's disgusting.
It is, indeed, a state issue. I'd never suggest otherwise. But a state where a violent offender can be released after serving only a fifth of his sentence has it's collective head up it's ass. This never, ever should have happened, and I for one adamantly want to hear those responsible stand up in front of the world and explain their decision.
Make sure this poor woman's mother and stepfather are there, in person, while this explanation is being offered.
| 1122 |
saberry0530 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:30:59am |
| 1123 |
unrealizedviewpoint Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:31:22am |
re: #1102 realwest
Gave you an upding pending your explanation of "minor drug" offenses!
All bout quantity & intent, I guess.
| 1124 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:31:29am |
re: #1092 Dianna
The Male smoked a turkey.
And how do we cook it?
Do we bake it? No, no, no, no
Do we broil it? No, no, no, no
We smoke it!
| 1125 |
Lincolntf Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:32:15am |
re: #1089 Flyers1974
Of course, there's always that factor. But without getting into the whole thing, there are ways to try to deal with that. Verify some of his answers through third sources, repeat questions after long time lapses, etc.
By far the greater threat to information gathering is asking a question and simply taking "I have no comment" for an answer.
The problem with limiting interrogation methods to the weakest, most ineffectual methods is that the detainee realizes it pretty quick. Once he knows there are no consequences for silence, lying, etc. he can just settle in and enjoy his three hots and a cot while Obama works on getting him released.
| 1126 |
debutaunt Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:32:39am |
re: #1120 Sharmuta
Except the family I know-- they were still failed by this categorizing. The man who raped and killed this beautiful young woman was off the charts- he should never have been released back into society. Yet he was. These sick fuckers need life in jail without parole or the death penalty if possible. They are broken- never to be useful to society. Keep them where they belong- where they can't hurt the citizens of this country again.
I have a sick feeling that this bastard will get parental visiting rights.
| 1127 |
unrealizedviewpoint Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:32:58am |
re: #1108 SixDegrees
Bring charges anyway. I know there are protections in place, but they all have limits, and a public airing of how this was allowed to happen needs to take place. It will accomplish, at least, dragging this miscreants out into the sunlight, and on this rare occasion my tolerance for nuisance lawsuits is actually increasing dramatically. Maybe civil charges would be more amenable to a win by the prosecution. In any case, some royal hounding is in order here.
Shielded from civil also. I suspect O'Reilly will be all over this tonight, tomorrow, all week.
| 1128 |
Sharmuta Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:33:09am |
re: #1121 SixDegrees
It is, indeed, a state issue. I'd never suggest otherwise. But a state where a violent offender can be released after serving only a fifth of his sentence has it's collective head up it's ass. This never, ever should have happened, and I for one adamantly want to hear those responsible stand up in front of the world and explain their decision.
Make sure this poor woman's mother and stepfather are there, in person, while this explanation is being offered.
And then there are the few cases where it is a Federal crime- the federal sentencing guidelines should be the same- life in jail without parole or the death penalty. I don't care which- just keep them away from the rest of us.
| 1129 |
srb1976 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:33:17am |
re: #1126 debutaunt
I have a sick feeling that this bastard will get parental visiting rights.
and the kids are both girls...ugh!
| 1130 |
vxbush Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:33:34am |
re: #1126 debutaunt
I have a sick feeling that this bastard will get parental visiting rights.
Egads. I hope not. That would be truly sick.
| 1132 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:33:40am |
| 1133 |
jcm Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:35:03am |
re: #1132 reloadingisnotahobby
Now that's just...WRONG!!
LOL
Sit on your deck, and mow!
What's wrong with that? If you sit on your deck mow and have a beer your neighbor's Petunias and cat are deep trouble.
| 1134 |
vxbush Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:35:24am |
re: #1132 reloadingisnotahobby
Now that's just...WRONG!!
LOL
Does that have a remote control on it? I'd get one of those, then...
| 1135 |
jcm Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:36:29am |
re: #1132 reloadingisnotahobby
Now that's just...WRONG!!
LOL
I want the next step for that puppy, add GPS a map of your property and a mowing schedule. We're way past due for automated lawn mowing.
| 1136 |
jcm Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:37:41am |
re: #1134 vxbush
Does that have a remote control on it? I'd get one of those, then...
It's Radio Controlled remote. Designed for steep slope mowing.
I like the whole tracks and remote control, Toys for Boys.
| 1137 |
vxbush Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:38:36am |
re: #1135 jcm
I want the next step for that puppy, add GPS a map of your property and a mowing schedule. We're way past due for automated lawn mowing.
The Roomba's cousin:
[Link: www.friendlyrobotics.com...]
| 1138 |
SixDegrees Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:38:45am |
re: #1127 unrealizedviewpoint
Shielded from civil also. I suspect O'Reilly will be all over this tonight, tomorrow, all week.
It makes you wonder where the sick fucks at Operation Rescue are and why they're not parking their otherwise sorry asses out on the front lawns of these public "servants" to protest their collaboration in kidnapping and rape.
Again: I understand the shield laws and their purpose. This case, though, seems to go so far beyond reasonable limits that such considerations ought to be tossed aside.
| 1139 |
realwest Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:40:37am |
re: #1123 unrealizedviewpoint Well the reason I asked was because NYS - at least as of 4 years ago, said that possession of one ounce or less of weed was only a violation - a $100 fine, but they didn't decriminalize ANY amounts of coke or heroin or Meth.
| 1141 |
Flyers1974 Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:42:05am |
re: #1125 Lincolntf
Of course, there's always that factor. But without getting into the whole thing, there are ways to try to deal with that. Verify some of his answers through third sources, repeat questions after long time lapses, etc.
By far the greater threat to information gathering is asking a question and simply taking "I have no comment" for an answer.
The problem with limiting interrogation methods to the weakest, most ineffectual methods is that the detainee realizes it pretty quick. Once he knows there are no consequences for silence, lying, etc. he can just settle in and enjoy his three hots and a cot while Obama works on getting him released.
Its not the view of most liberals I'm sure, but personally, I don't have a problem with these methods provided they aren't used to go on fishing expeditions. Not that I'm saying they were used in such a manner, I didn't pay close enough attention when the issue was most prominant, so I just heard the political posturing.
| 1143 |
Dianna Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:46:14am |
re: #1095 srb1976
YUM!...Love smoked turkey, and any leftovers make the best sandwiches too!
Leftovers? What are these "leftovers" you speak of?
There were no survivors.
| 1144 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:46:27am |
re: #1135 jcm
But you could have Jose and Jos b mow for a couple years for the price of automation and still sit on the deck by the beer cooler...
...yeh..I want one too..
| 1145 |
jcm Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:53:04am |
re: #1115 realwest
OK, that I can understand, but if it's a Washington State Law, isn't it the obligation of the Washington STATE officials (AG, Govenor) to enforce the law?
Maybe. I think the school board would have to file a complaint. But both the Gov. and AG are big (D)s who owe the WEA big time.
Couple years ago Public Disclosure Commission whacked WEA with a $5 million fine for failing to disclose political activities, keeping their activities under the radar was apparently worth $5 million.
| 1146 |
unrealizedviewpoint Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:53:16am |
re: #1139 realwest
Well the reason I asked was because NYS - at least as of 4 years ago, said that possession of one ounce or less of weed was only a violation - a $100 fine, but they didn't decriminalize ANY amounts of coke or heroin or Meth.
Mexico's new drug laws should be the model.
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