Pat Buchanan: Hitler Wasn’t So Bad

US News • Views: 5,103

Pat Buchanan says Adolf Hitler was really a misunderstood pacifist: Did Hitler Want War?

Buchanan’s article is all over the neo-Nazi and Ron Paul websites today — they love it. townhall.com, humanevents.com, cnsnews.com, Stormfront, dailypaul.com — all publishing Pat Buchanan’s revisionist drivel.

UPDATE at 9/1/09 1:21:07 pm:

Real Clear Politics has apparently yanked Buchanan’s disgusting article. If you really want to read it, click the Google search link above. It’s still posted at several other websites.

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1195 comments
1 Ojoe  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:30:28am

BuchananYou Moron

2 sffilk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:30:43am

This is totally sickening. 'nuff said.

3 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:31:04am

So excited for his next big MSM showing as the 'rights' spokesperson...

//

4 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:31:40am

Buchanan is an anti-Semite.

Revisionism is not new.

5 Dynomite  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:32:16am

... and people wonder why such a large majority of Americans don't see the conservative "message" as having any value.

6 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:32:20am

Paddy Boy is Marge Schott in drag.

7 sffilk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:32:57am

re: #4 Ben Hur

Buchanan is an anti-Semite.

Revisionism is not new.

Actually, he's a Jew-hater. The term "anti-Semite" was created in the 19th century to make hatred of the Jews seem scientifically-based. The proper term is judenhasse. My source for this is Telushkin's Jewish Literacy.

8 Anthony (Los Angeles)  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:33:15am

Didn't Buchanan recently publish a book arguing that the mean-old British and Americans pushed the Nazis into the Final Solution, that Hitler wouldn't have done it if we had remained nice and isolationist?

There's a bakery missing one of its fruitcakes somewhere.

9 BlueCanuck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:34:29am

re: #8 Anthony (Los Angeles)

And a tree is short a few nuts.

10 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:34:41am
Townhall.com, HumanEvents.com, cns.com, Stormfront, dailypaul.com — they all published this one.

And MSNBC will probably have him on Hardball tonight.

11 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:34:46am

So if Hitler wasn't so bad, and Obama is Hitler, that would mean Obama isn't so bad, which would then mean ...

/Paul-bot caught in logical process loop

12 Gus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:34:46am

Buchanan defends Hitler and makes a claim that he wanted to end the war before "the trains began to roll to the camps."

Because Hitler wanted to end the war in 1940, almost two years before the trains began to roll to the camps.

Buchanan is thus blaming the allied powers for not heading to Hitler who "wanted to end the war in 1940," which led to the holocaust.

This article was also posted at Vdare.

13 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:35:23am

Interestingly enough, it also got posted on some site called antiwar-dot-com.

14 MJ  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:35:26am

Just to tie this in from the last thread, both Jerome Corsi and Pat Buchanan appeared on the racist, supremacist and antisemitic radio program The Political Cesspool.

15 Racer X  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:35:47am

[deleted]

16 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:36:17am

I checked over at Deborah Lipstadt's blog, but she doesn't seem to have written anything on this. Shame -- I'd like to see her disassemble Buchanan on this one.

17 KenJen  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:36:32am

What would cause this? Why that? Why did? I've never seen so many questions in an article. Oh, and I found a typo. Pat B. is a idiot.

18 spoosmith  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:36:59am

Wait a minute...if he's arguing that Hitler wasn't such a bad guy, won't that take the wind out of the crazies' sails? Does this mean they have to make new signs?

19 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:37:09am

re: #7 sffilk

Actually, he's a Jew-hater. The term "anti-Semite" was created in the 19th century to make hatred of the Jews seem scientifically-based. The proper term is judenhasse. My source for this is Telushkin's Jewish Literacy.

Thanks.

20 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:37:15am

I guess Pat never read Mein Kampf where Hitler details what he was going to do. That Kristalnacht happened WAY before he invaded Poland.. Nah.. it was all America and Britain's fault.. yeah...

21 Gus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:37:29am

Meet the faces of MSNBC: Patrick J. Buchanan, anti-Semite.

22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:37:44am

Reminds me of the t-shirt I saw once. It said, "But what about all of the good things Hitler did?"

Shirt was sarcasm... not neo nazi or anything.

23 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:37:47am

Here's Pat

Image: File:Traditional_fruitcake.jpg

24 harpsicon  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:38:07am

For a while, all the current anti-Semitism was on the left, an unusual development indeed. Now the real Nazi sympathizers seem to be reclaiming their ground...

25 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:38:24am

Where's drcordell to tell us Buchanan is wrong, WWII wasn't Britain's fault, it was America's fault?

26 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:38:53am

He's claiming that in 1939, Hitler's victims were fewer than Pinochet's. According to web-sites I found using "pinochet crimes", we're talking approximately 27,000 people.

I think the number of people deprived of their freedom, expelled from Germany, and murdered by 1939 exceeded that number.

27 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:39:01am

re: #22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Reminds me of the t-shirt I saw once. It said, "But what about all of the good things Hitler did?"

Shirt was sarcasm... not neo nazi or anything.

IMO the "Che Guevera" shirts are as disgusting. I did ask a student wearing one if he had a Heinrich Himmler shirt to match. He didn't get it.

28 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:39:16am

ein bisschen Anschluss here... a little bit of Lebensraum there...that's all he wanted...just a place for the Master Race to live...Oh, that and kill all the Jews and other subhumans too.

PJ - please just shut up...you are a pathetic little man.

29 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:39:19am

re: #13 Honorary Yooper

Interestingly enough, it also got posted on some site called antiwar-dot-com.

Interesting. I would have thought it would be a leftist site but they're hardcore anti-American isolationists: Randolph Bourne Institute
(publisher of Antiwar.com)

30 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:39:53am

15 year old teen boy who cries crying blood

Youtube Video
31 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:39:54am

Sorry, I messed up my link: Crimes of Pinochet

32 Baier  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:40:01am

Hitler: Pat Buchanan is a Mensch

33 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:40:11am

re: #26 Dianna

He probably doesn't consider depriving people of rights as crimes. In any event, those nasty things were done by "fringe elements" like the SA, and he purged them, right? Oh, and the euthanasia programs probably aren't included as well.

34 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:40:20am

re: #26 Dianna

He's claiming that in 1939, Hitler's victims were fewer than Pinochet's. According to web-sites I found using "pinochet crimes", we're talking approximately 27,000 people.

I think the number of people deprived of their freedom, expelled from Germany, and murdered by 1939 exceeded that number.

I remember the quote from a german army private I saw on TV. He saw one of the children in the camps and said if his country was responsible for even one child (or person) being treated like that, then we (Germany) are wrong and should be defeated.

35 elpresidente  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:40:32am

Did Hitler want war?

In one word: absolutely.

Buchanan is an idiot.

36 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:40:48am

Just in case it hasn't been mentioned enough, Pat Buchanan is a fucking idiot.

37 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:40:51am

re: #29 Killgore Trout

Interesting. I would have thought it would be a leftist site but they're hardcore anti-American isolationists: Randolph Bourne Institute
(publisher of Antiwar.com)

Antiwar.com is Justin Raimondo's antisemitic hate site. It's connected to Takimag and the whole Eurofascist network.

38 sffilk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:40:57am

re: #19 Ben Hur

Thanks.

You're more than welcome.

39 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:40:57am

re: #29 Killgore Trout

Interesting. I would have thought it would be a leftist site but they're hardcore anti-American isolationists: Randolph Bourne Institute
(publisher of Antiwar.com)

Most interesting indeed. It explains why the article got posted there.

40 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:41:33am

re: #27 Lucius Septimius

IMO the "Che Guevera" shirts are as disgusting. I did ask a student wearing one if he had a Heinrich Himmler shirt to match. He didn't get it.

Being a clueless young fool is one thing. The people that actually know what Che did and what he was and then still wear the stupid shirt or have a poster up on the wall are the ones I hate. The blood could be dripping off of these tools of caplitalism (shirts and posters, etc) and it would not bother them.

41 MJ  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:41:36am

re: #10 Ringo the Gringo

And MSNBC will probably have him on Hardball tonight.

Pat Buchanan's Holocaust-Denial Enabling Ignored By NBC

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

42 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:41:39am

re: #29 Killgore Trout

Interesting. I would have thought it would be a leftist site but they're hardcore anti-American isolationists: Randolph Bourne Institute
(publisher of Antiwar.com)

The site is managed by Justin Raimondo, a world class mouth-frothing, shrieking, 9-11 Troofing Joo-hater. He's also gay. NTTAWWT.

43 drcordell  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:41:39am

re: #25 Kenneth

Where's drcordell to tell us Buchanan is wrong, WWII wasn't Britain's fault, it was America's fault?

Wow, I just happened to open the thread in time for you to start talking shit. You take everything I say and blow it completely out of proportion. How the fuck do you interpret me saying "we didn't need to intervene in Afghanistan in the 1980's" to mean "we shouldn't have entered WWII?"

44 KenJen  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:41:44am

re: #17 KenJen

What would cause this? Why that? Why did? I've never seen so many questions in an article. Oh, and I found a typo. Pat B. is an idiot.

Ha. So am I.

45 sffilk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:41:54am

re: #23 Son of the Black Dog

Here's Pat

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Don't say that!!! You're giving fruitcake a bad name! (hehe)

46 Dahveed  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:41:55am
Why did he offer the British peace, twice, after Poland fell, and again after France fell?

Hitler now was actually a peaceful man? Next Buchanan will claim the Gestapo was just your friendly neighborhood watch.

47 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:42:22am

Nazi Persecution of the Mentally and Physically Disabled

The idea of killing the incurably ill was posed well before 1939. In the 1920s, debate on this issue centered on a book coauthored by Alfred Hoche, a noted psychiatrist, and Karl Binding, a prominent scholar of criminal law. They argued that economic savings justified the killing of "useless lives" ("idiots" and "congenitally crippled"). Economic deprivation during World War I provided the context for this idea. During the war, patients in asylums had ranked low on the list for rationing of food and medical supplies, and as a result, many died from starvation or disease. More generally, the war undermined the value attached to individual life and, combined with Germany's humiliating defeat, led many nationalists to consider ways to regenerate the nation as a whole at the expense of individual rights.

In 1935 Hitler stated privately that "in the event of war, [he] would take up the question of euthanasia and enforce it" because "such a problem would be more easily solved" during wartime. War would provide both a cover for killing and a pretext--hospital beds and medical personnel would be freed up for the war effort. The upheaval of war and the diminished value of human life during wartime would also, Hitler believed, mute expected opposition. To make the connection to the war explicit, Hitler's decree was backdated to September 1, 1939, the day Germany invaded Poland.

48 Mad Mullah  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:42:24am

What a lying, revisionist douchetard that man is.

Anybody with a half a brain can see through his ridiculous article.

Buchanan might as well wear a swastika armband the next time that he's on tv.

49 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:42:39am

re: #29 Killgore Trout

Randolph Bourne Institute

The Randolph Bourne Institute was founded in 2001 and states that it promotes "a non-interventionist foreign policy for the United States as the best way of fostering a peaceful, more prosperous world.' [1].

On its website, which hasn't been updated since 2002, it states that it runs Antiwar.com. Antiwar.com states on its website that "our politics are libertarian" and that the founders "were active in the Libertarian Party during the 1970s; in 1983, we founded the Libertarian Republican Organizing Committee, to work as a libertarian caucus within the GOP.

50 srb1976  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:43:02am

Somebody please tell me why Pat Buchanan is treated as anything other than the raving lunatic he so obviously is?
What does it take to get this guy locked in a loony bin and shot up with THorazine?

51 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:43:15am

For somebody that thinks he is so smart.. Pat sure is dumb

52 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:43:44am

Back to work. Ciao.

53 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:43:52am

Picked a nice day for it, you did, Bat Puchanan. September 1: Does that ring any bells?

54 Red Pencil  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:43:53am

Buchanan has been saying this for a while, the title of his book Churchill, Hitler and the Unnecessary War pretty much said it all, and he said it in Spring 2008 during the election to defend Obama from charges of appeasement to say that appeasement is such a GOOD idea when you are appeasing sensible people like, say, Hitler or Saddam Hussein.

Pat Buchanan defends Obama's "appeasement", May 2008:


Why did the tanks roll? Because Poland refused to negotiate over Danzig, a Baltic port of 350,000 that was 95 percent German and had been taken from Germany at the Paris peace conference of 1919, in violation of Wilson's 14 Points and his principle of self-determination.

Hitler had not wanted war with Poland. He had wanted an alliance with Poland in his anti-Comintern pact against Joseph Stalin.

But the Poles refused to negotiate. Why? Because they were a proud, defiant, heroic people and because Neville Chamberlain had insanely given an unsolicited war guarantee to Poland. If Hitler invaded, Chamberlain told the Poles, Britain would declare war on Germany.

From March to August 1939, Hitler tried to negotiate Danzig. But the Poles, confident in their British war guarantee, refused. So, Hitler cut his deal with Stalin, and the two invaded and divided Poland.


But I suppose it is "news" that Paulians et al regurgitate this. Tho The Paul himself has stated that NO wars since the Revolution were justified, so obviously he is pre-agreed with Buchanan here.

55 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:44:12am

re: #51 HoosierHoops

For somebody that thinks he is so smart.. Pat sure is dumb

However, Pat is also dangerous because there is a contingent of people who actually listen to his crappola.

56 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:44:15am

re: #50 srb1976

Somebody please tell me why Pat Buchanan is treated as anything other than the raving lunatic he so obviously is?

I have no clue but the Republican Party is fairly friendly to him. He's featured at CPAC pretty much every year.

57 MJ  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:44:25am

The Road to World War II

Why Wasn't Hitler Stopped?

By Klaus Wiegrefe

World War II began 70 years ago when Germany invaded Poland on Sept. 1, 1939. It would last six years and claim millions of lives. But the Allies missed several opportunities to stop Hitler in the run-up to the war.


Editor's note: This is part one of a SPIEGEL article about the beginning of World War II. Part two will be published on Sept. 2.

[Link: www.spiegel.de...]

58 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:44:33am

re: #53 Cato the Elder

Picked a nice day for it, you did, Bat Puchanan. September 1: Does that ring any bells?

Uh... I think this was deliberate.

59 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:44:38am

re: #50 srb1976

Somebody please tell me why Pat Buchanan is treated as anything other than the raving lunatic he so obviously is?
What does it take to get this guy locked in a loony bin and shot up with THorazine?

He'll be on TV forever...why? Because the left uses him as the "poster boy" of the right. MSNBC LOVES it when Pat spouts this stuff off. It only cements their conclusion that ALL Republicans are like that. They drag him out and say "See? See what they believe?"

60 pat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:44:46am

I linked in the last thread to an article in The Daily Mail wherein Putin blames Britain for the Russian invasion of Poland and the start of WWII. Buchanan is another such revisionist. He runs with bad company.

61 drcordell  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:44:55am

Kenneth seems to be a certain breed of patriot. Namely one who believes that one must claim America has never made a bad decision in her entire history. For to admit any mistake is tantamount to treason.

The fact that I DARE say our recruitment of Islamic terrorists in Afghanistan to fight to Soviets had negative consequences for our nation means I'm an "Amerika hating librul squish" or something. Oh, and that I love Hitler apparently.

62 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:45:03am

IN OTHER NEWS

Pol Pot really really liked puppies
Genghis Khan once gave an apple to a small child
Joseph Stalin once laughed at a Jerry Lewis movie
Jeffrey Dahmer always ate his veggies!

See ,,, there's good in EVERYONE!!

63 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:45:10am

re: #53 Cato the Elder

Picked a nice day for it, you did, Bat Puchanan. September 1: Does that ring any bells?

What does it mean Cato?

64 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:45:25am

I bet "Springtime for Hitler" is Buchanan's favorite song. And he doesn't know it's supposed to be funny.

65 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:45:26am

re: #53 Cato the Elder

Picked a nice day for it, you did, Bat Puchanan. September 1: Does that ring any bells?

I am certain that date was on purpose. 70 years ago...wow

66 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:46:01am

re: #61 drcordell

Kenneth seems to be a certain breed of patriot. Namely one who believes that one must claim America has never made a bad decision in her entire history. For to admit any mistake is tantamount to treason.

The fact that I DARE say our recruitment of Islamic terrorists in Afghanistan to fight to Soviets had negative consequences for our nation means I'm an "Amerika hating librul squish" or something. Oh, and that I love Hitler apparently.

It's worse.

He's Canadian.

67 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:46:02am

re: #43 drcordell

Your wordview became apparent in that discussion: everything wrong that happened is America's fault, anything good that happened would have happened anyway without US action.

68 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:46:06am

The incredible story of Pvt. Tandey VC and Hitler.

69 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:46:11am

Of course Hitler wanter peace with Britain. It would have allowed him time and resources to concentrate on consolidating his hold on Europe and prepare for the next stage of attacks.

70 Mad Mullah  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:46:13am

re: #63 HoosierHoops

What does it mean Cato?

Germany invades Poland, in '39.

71 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:46:25am

re: #63 HoosierHoops

What does it mean Cato?

Google World War II

Note the day it starts

72 pat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:46:37am

re: #62 sattv4u2

Pol Pot really really liked puppies

Yeah. They were particularly tasty with a bit of flat bread, chilis, and basil leaves.

73 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:46:46am

re: #70 Mad Mullah

Ah, Thanks.

74 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:46:46am

re: #59 Desert Dog

He'll be on TV forever...why? Because the left uses him as the "poster boy" of the right. MSNBC LOVES it when Pat spouts this stuff off. It only cements their conclusion that ALL Republicans are like that. They drag him out and say "See? See what they believe?"

Sorry, but there are also plenty of so-called "real" conservatives who have no hesitation about praising Pat Buchanan -- people like Joe Scarborough and Sean Hannity, for example. His articles are published at every major conservative website -- in addition to Stormfront and the neo-Nazi sites.

You can't blame this one on a plot by MSNBC to make conservatives look bad. They're doing a fine job of it themselves.

75 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:46:52am

re: #60 pat

I linked in the last thread to an article in The Daily Mail wherein Putin blames Britain for the Russian invasion of Poland and the start of WWII. Buchanan is another such revisionist. He runs with bad company.

To be absolutely fair, Putin is speaking a viewpoint often pushed in Soviet histories. There's a very good book called The Grand Delusion that gives a good summary of the Russian/Soviet view.

76 drcordell  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:47:15am

re: #67 Kenneth

Your wordview became apparent in that discussion: everything wrong that happened is America's fault, anything good that happened would have happened anyway without US action.

Can you take a SINGLE THING that I post and not turn it into a straw-man argument. I am citing one specific instance in history where I believe we should not have taken the action we did. Stop putting words in my mouth god dammit.

77 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:47:27am

re: #74 Charles

Sorry, but there are also plenty of so-called "real" conservatives who have no hesitation about praising Pat Buchanan -- people like Joe Scarborough and Sean Hannity, for example. His articles are published at every major conservative website -- in addition to Stormfront and the neo-Nazi sites.

You can't blame this one on a plot by MSNBC to make conservatives look bad. They're doing a fine job of it themselves.

Fair enough, but he is the gift that keeps on giving to the left.

78 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:47:32am

OT, also on this day in history, Atlanta fell to Union troops

79 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:47:43am

re: #61 drcordell

Zero Sum Game

It offsets those on the left that
A) blame America for all the worlds ills
and
B) when America admits a mistake and rectifies it will never say "gee,,, she did the right thing"

80 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:47:46am

re: #61 drcordell

You are projecting.

81 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:47:48am

re: #78 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OT, also on this day in history, Atlanta fell to Union troops

Damn Yankees!

82 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:47:53am

re: #67 Kenneth

Your wordview became apparent in that discussion: everything wrong that happened is America's fault, anything good that happened would have happened anyway without US action.

Buckley VS. Chomsky comes to mind...

Youtube Video
83 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:48:14am

re: #65 Desert Dog

I am certain that date was on purpose. 70 years ago...wow

Technically for the Western portion of the war but the war started in the pacific before that with Japan doing some nasty things to China. As is always, the major wars usually have a hard time finding the start but you do have the end pretty much done.

As Conan would say (Barbarian, not the late night guy)

"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you... and to hear the lamentation of their women!"

84 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:48:51am

I read that article and it makes me sick to my stomach...is it too much to call Pat Buchanan and his fellow Jew-haters, Naziphiles, and revisionists a bunch of fascist-loving choads?

85 drcordell  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:49:01am

re: #80 Kenneth

You are projecting.

I'm projecting?!?! Go read every single post on this thread. You keep talking about "my world view" and how I'm a Nazi loving Hitler appeaser. All because I dared to say we shouldn't have directly funded Islamic Jihadists in the 1980's.

86 ladycatnip  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:49:04am

Obama to address students pre-K-6th.

As students listen to the speech they could think about the following:

What is the president trying to tell me?
What is he asking me to do?

Historically, this sort of thing is called indoctrination. Did Bush do this?

87 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:49:09am

re: #78 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OT, also on this day in history, Atlanta fell to Union troops

I will not try to find "While we were marching through Georgia".

88 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:49:26am

Buchanan just won't stop. This is nothing he hasn't said before, but the fact that he keeps saying it reminds me of the unfortunately correct predictions of Eisenhower.

Eisenhower was very keen to get as much of the camps as possible documented on film. He made certain that people saw them.

He was very clear that he was doing this because he knew that in a few generation, there would be those who would try to deny it happened.

I never thought that it would be possible to see any pundit - who got national air time saying the things that Buchanan has been saying.

There are still some alive with numbers on their arms. But I suppose to the evil crew that believes this crap, those old people all just tattooed themselves.

It is sickening.

The only possible answer is better education.

So let's be really clear. Pat is one of the voices that is gaining ascendency in the right. This is the madness that needs to be stopped. Paul is part of it too. Anyone who wonders why I have so many difficulties with the what the right has become need look no further than this.

89 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:49:28am

re: #63 HoosierHoops

What does it mean Cato?

Oh, poor, misunderstood Hitler decided to take a cross-border excursion into Poland exactly seventy years ago today. It was viewed as aggressive in some quarters and certain people got upset, resulting in a rather large set-to that injured some folks and caused a few borders to be withdrawn in 1945.

According to Pat, it could all have been avoided if Churchill hadn't been such a meanie.

90 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:49:35am

re: #74 Charles

Sorry, but there are also plenty of so-called "real" conservatives who have no hesitation about praising Pat Buchanan -- people like Joe Scarborough and Sean Hannity, for example. His articles are published at every major conservative website -- in addition to Stormfront and the neo-Nazi sites.

You can't blame this one on a plot by MSNBC to make conservatives look bad. They're doing a fine job of it themselves.

I was about to bring up Sean. Hannity seems to denounce anti-semites, why would he 'pal around' with the likes of Buchanan? I have no idea. Does anyone know why this guy has so much 'sway' with the Republicans?

91 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:50:09am

All of Pukecannon's "Greatest Hits" - all on one page

92 Pullus Iulius  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:50:18am

All primary source material detailing shickelgruber's appetite for war and the rape of Europe aside, I wish this bastard buchanan would stop tickling the hair and just come right out and state his undying fetishistic love of the nazis. All due apologies to any other bastards who might be reading this.

93 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:50:32am

re: #83 MikeAlv77

Technically for the Western portion of the war but the war started in the pacific before that with Japan doing some nasty things to China. As is always, the major wars usually have a hard time finding the start but you do have the end pretty much done.

As Conan would say (Barbarian, not the late night guy)

"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you... and to hear the lamentation of their women!"

Infinitely better than the wind in your hair, and a falcon on your wrist!

94 buster  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:50:34am

Buchanan is right. Hitler didn't want war...Yet. He wanted to take as much land and power as possible - and build his war machine - before he had to put boots on the ground. To use PJ's logic, Hitler would never have attacked Russia, with whom he had pact, while engaged in a war with the West. That would be the actions of a mad man...oh...wait.

95 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:50:50am

re: #76 drcordell

Don't blame me if you said a lot of stupid things. And it was more than one post.

96 drcordell  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:50:51am

re: #79 sattv4u2

Zero Sum Game

It offsets those on the left that
A) blame America for all the worlds ills
and
B) when America admits a mistake and rectifies it will never say "gee,,, she did the right thing"

*yawn*

97 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:50:54am

re: #75 Dianna

To be absolutely fair, Putin is speaking a viewpoint often pushed in Soviet histories. There's a very good book called The Grand Delusion that gives a good summary of the Russian/Soviet view.

My colleague Igor has a great line about this stuff:

"Being Russian historian is wonderful. Always many new developments in field."

98 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:51:05am

re: #90 Oh no...Sand People!

I was about to bring up Sean. Hannity seems to denounce anti-semites, why would he 'pal around' with the likes of Buchanan? I have no idea. Does anyone know why this guy has so much 'sway' with the Republicans?

Hannity is the McDonald's of conservative punditry.

99 garycooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:51:08am

re: #61 drcordell

Kenneth seems to be a certain breed of patriot. Namely one who believes that one must claim America has never made a bad decision in her entire history. For to admit any mistake is tantamount to treason.

The fact that I DARE say our recruitment of Islamic terrorists in Afghanistan to fight to Soviets had negative consequences for our nation means I'm an "Amerika hating librul squish" or something. Oh, and that I love Hitler apparently.

I suppose you would have favored the introduction of American troops into Afghanistan to repel the Soviets. Or, did you favor the annexation of the country by the Soviets?

Hindsight can be tricky, even when it's 20/20.

100 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:51:25am

Whoops, here's the right link for all of his Greatest Hits.

101 Wendya  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:51:37am

I haven't read the article yet. Is this more of Pat's If we'd only given Hitler what he wanted, we would have avoided war form of pacifism?

I really despise pacifists.

102 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:51:59am

re: #89 Cato the Elder

How does someone defend Hitler as misunderstood?
Thanks I forgot about it being Sept 1st...

103 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:52:07am

re: #85 drcordell

You keep talking about ...how I'm a Nazi loving Hitler appeaser.

I said no such thing.

104 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:52:37am

More crazy here...

Bachmann: We Should "Slit Our Wrists, Be Blood Brothers" To Defeat Health Care Reform

Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.), who recently said that health care opponents needed to defeat health care reform with "prayer and fasting," is now asking for blood.

"What we have to do today is make a covenant, to slit our wrists, be blood brothers on this thing. This will not pass. We will do whatever it takes to make sure this doesn't pass," she said in a speech at a Denver, Colorado fundraiser Monday.

"Right now, we are looking at reaching down the throat and ripping the guts out of freedom," she added. "And we may never be able to restore it if we don't man up and take this one on." She also declared it "slavery" that some Americans pay half their income in taxes.

105 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:52:43am

re: #94 buster

Buchanan is right. Hitler didn't want war...Yet. He wanted to take as much land and power as possible - and build his war machine - before he had to put boots on the ground. To use PJ's logic, Hitler would never have attacked Russia, with whom he had pact, while engaged in a war with the West. That would be the actions of a mad man...oh...wait.

This has a ring of truth to it. If all those countries would have just rolled over and given Hitler all the "living space" that he wanted, no war would have occured. Using this logic, I should just open my house for the thief to take what he needs and not get my front door busted...

106 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:52:53am

re: #102 HoosierHoops

How does someone defend Hitler as misunderstood?
Thanks I forgot about it being Sept 1st...

It helps if you're a Nazi sympathizer like Bat.

107 Gus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:53:07am

Battle of Westerplatte - first battle of WWII on Sept. 1, 1939

108 drcordell  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:53:10am

re: #95 Kenneth

Don't blame me if you said a lot of stupid things. And it was more than one post.

I could give a fuck if you think I'm stupid for my opinions regarding U.S. intervention in Afghanistan. I have a problem with you because you called me a Nazi appeaser. So please, stop putting words in my mouth.

109 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:53:11am
110 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:53:35am

re: #104 Killgore Trout

More crazy here...

Bachmann: We Should "Slit Our Wrists, Be Blood Brothers" To Defeat Health Care Reform

She got the first part right. It would save us from putting her in front of a Trig Panel.

111 BlueCanuck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:53:57am

re: #101 Wendya

I think pacifists are great. With rye, sauerkraut, and a nice dijon mustard.

/hmmm, should start bringing lunch to work I think...

112 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:54:03am

re: #69 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Of course Hitler wanter peace with Britain. It would have allowed him time and resources to concentrate on consolidating his hold on Europe and prepare for the next stage of attacks.

Agreed. And while I have no links, IIRC, the British upper crust was in favor of a negotiated peace with Germany after Dunkirk. Churchill was able to sustain his government by only a small margin. Obviously Hitler would have preferred going into Russia unfettered by a threat of war on his western front. The German minority populations and the lebensraum were in Eastern Europe and western Russia, not Britain.

113 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:54:11am

re: #84 talon_262

I read that article and it makes me sick to my stomach...is it too much to call Pat Buchanan and his fellow Jew-haters, Naziphiles, and revisionists a bunch of fascist-loving choads?

I personally just look at them for what they are. Enemies of all I hold dear.

Torah has a great word to describe the likes of Pat.

Amalek.

114 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:54:39am

re: #109 buzzsawmonkey

I notice that Buchanan leaps nimbly over Germany's invasion and occupation of the Rhineland, which he did before invading Poland.

And there was that little, teensey, weensey Sudetenland thing in Czechoslovakia...

115 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:54:42am

re: #109 buzzsawmonkey

I notice that Buchanan leaps nimbly over Germany's invasion and occupation of the Rhineland, which he did before invading Poland.

The Rhineland was Germany's and should never have been taken away under Versailles. One of the reasons Hitler could thrive was the injustice done Germany after WWI.

116 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:54:54am

re: #108 drcordell

I did not call you a Nazi appeaser, I suggested, sarcastically, that you would blame WWII on the US. Significant difference.

117 Erik The Red  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:54:57am

re: #111 BlueCanuck

I think pacifists are great. With rye, sauerkraut, and a nice dijon mustard.

/hmmm, should start bringing lunch to work I think...

I prefer a good hot English Mustard myself. :)

118 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:55:05am

re: #90 Oh no...Sand People!

I was about to bring up Sean. Hannity seems to denounce anti-semites, why would he 'pal around' with the likes of Buchanan? I have no idea. Does anyone know why this guy has so much 'sway' with the Republicans?

He's pals with Hal Turner as well. He's just looking the other way when it's convenient. He does that often.

119 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:55:08am

re: #104 Killgore Trout

More crazy here...

Bachmann: We Should "Slit Our Wrists, Be Blood Brothers" To Defeat Health Care Reform

Youtube Video
120 drcordell  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:55:26am

re: #103 Kenneth

I said no such thing.

Have your posts from 5 minutes ago already gone down the memory hole? How the hell else should I interpret this gem of yours?

"Where's drcordell to tell us Buchanan is wrong, WWII wasn't Britain's fault, it was America's fault?"

121 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:55:30am

re: #105 MikeAlv77

This has a ring of truth to it. If all those countries would have just rolled over and given Hitler all the "living space" that he wanted, no war would have occured. Using this logic, I should just open my house for the thief to take what he needs and not get my front door busted...

It's always the defender who is responsible for war. If you simply give the initiator what he wanted in the first place, then there would be no need for fighting. But nooo, you greedy bastards want to just keep whats yours and start killing people to keep it. Murderers.

///

122 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:55:33am

re: #109 buzzsawmonkey

I notice that Buchanan leaps nimbly over Germany's invasion and occupation of the Rhineland, which he did before invading Poland.

And the Sudetenland.

123 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:55:36am

re: #61 drcordell

Kenneth seems to be a certain breed of patriot. Namely one who believes that one must claim America has never made a bad decision in her entire history. For to admit any mistake is tantamount to treason.

The fact that I DARE say our recruitment of Islamic terrorists in Afghanistan to fight to Soviets had negative consequences for our nation means I'm an "Amerika hating librul squish" or something. Oh, and that I love Hitler apparently.

We know you don't love tyrants. However, emotions are running high these days and your being contrary can cause people to get quite hostile.

124 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:55:40am

re: #89 Cato the Elder

PIMF: "...borders redrawn..."

125 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:55:42am

I have a question...After the game last night I was flipping through stations and came across Laura Ingraham (sic) She seemed pretty cool.. Please don't tell me is a Birther or Creationist.

126 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:55:43am

re: #96 drcordell

*yawn*

What an insightful and well thought out retort!

127 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:55:55am

re: #74 Charles

His articles are published at every major conservative website...

I've never seen Buchanan published at National Review, Weekly Standard or City Journal.

128 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:56:06am

re: #114 MikeAlv77

And there was that little, teensey, weensey Sudetenland thing in Czechoslovakia...

Anschluss, rearmanent, etc...

129 Gus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:56:10am

re: #104 Killgore Trout

More crazy here...

Bachmann: We Should "Slit Our Wrists, Be Blood Brothers" To Defeat Health Care Reform

The crazy is a bottomless pit.

130 DaddyG  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:56:29am

re: #46 Dahveed

Hitler now was actually a peaceful man? Next Buchanan will claim the Gestapo was just your friendly neighborhood watch.

They also provided free relocation and decorating services. /

I am stunned that our populace is so ignorant of what happened just 50-60 years ago that this garbage could be taken seriously by anyone other than a few mouth breathing droolers who were raised by wolves.

131 Lee Coller  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:56:30am

re: #74 Charles

Sorry, but there are also plenty of so-called "real" conservatives who have no hesitation about praising Pat Buchanan -- people like Joe Scarborough and Sean Hannity, for example. His articles are published at every major conservative website -- in addition to Stormfront and the neo-Nazi sites.

You can't blame this one on a plot by MSNBC to make conservatives look bad. They're doing a fine job of it themselves.

Laura Ingraham is another.

132 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:56:44am

re: #121 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It's always the defender who is responsible for war. If you simply give the initiator what he wanted in the first place, then there would be no need for fighting. But nooo, you greedy bastards want to just keep whats yours and start killing people to keep it. Murderers.

///

Ya know, the sad part is I have a neighbor who feels this way. She thinks you can just "talk" your way through things...

133 BlueCanuck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:56:49am

re: #120 drcordell

Hmmm, don't see him calling you a Nazi appeaser in that post. I think you are protesting far too much.

134 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:56:52am

re: #104 Killgore Trout

More crazy here...

Bachmann: We Should "Slit Our Wrists, Be Blood Brothers" To Defeat Health Care Reform

Has she seen a psychiatrist?

135 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:56:52am

re: #125 HoosierHoops

I have a question...After the game last night I was flipping through stations and came across Laura Ingraham (sic) She seemed pretty cool.. Please don't tell me is a Birther or Creationist.

Birther, no...Creationist, yes.

136 MJ  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:56:54am

re: #109 buzzsawmonkey

I notice that Buchanan leaps nimbly over Germany's invasion and occupation of the Rhineland, which he did before invading Poland.

The Coughlinite Buchanan will never forgive the Jews for forcing Hitler's hand...

/

137 pat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:57:02am

Actually I have never read a Buchanan article. They can't be everywhere.

138 srb1976  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:57:17am

It's probably a good thing that I have to go run errands...any talk about what I actually think in regards to this whackjob would probably get me banned anyway...(not nice thoughts at all)

139 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:57:35am

re: #120 drcordell

Have your posts from 5 minutes ago already gone down the memory hole? How the hell else should I interpret this gem of yours?

"Where's drcordell to tell us Buchanan is wrong, WWII wasn't Britain's fault, it was America's fault?"

and that equates to "you called me a Nazi appeaser." how??

140 Wendya  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:58:11am

re: #85 drcordell

All because I dared to say we shouldn't have directly funded Islamic Jihadists in the 1980's.

You're referring to the Mujahideen, funded by Carter and Reagan to fight against the Soviet Union?

History is distorted when it's viewed strictly through a lens of what is happening at this moment.

141 JohnnyReb  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:58:13am

re: #115 Cato the Elder

The Rhineland was Germany's and should never have been taken away under Versailles. One of the reasons Hitler could thrive was the injustice done Germany after WWI.

That is exactly correct. The Allies set the table for WWII at Versailles. Not saying Hitler didn't take the table setting and run with it, but the Allies share some responsibility for Hitler getting into power. Also it did not help that he got a huge boost from the depression going on also.

142 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:58:17am
143 Pullus Iulius  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:58:18am

Just more of The Big Lie. Buchanan aping his hero.

144 Pianobuff  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:58:37am

"I just did an hour on the gym machine. I'm sweaty and I have to shit. Where's my fannypack, this workout is over."

shitmydadsays

145 Lee Coller  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:58:38am

re: #101 Wendya

I haven't read the article yet. Is this more of Pat's If we'd only given Hitler what he wanted, we would have avoided war form of pacifism?

I really despise pacifists.

Buchanan's argument is that it was all over a small border town in Poland that had a majority German population, if only Poland had agreed to a land swap WWII would not have happened. The stupid is strong.

146 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:58:43am

Townhall.com could be a useful site if it didn't let kooks like Buchanan on there.

147 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:59:16am

re: #112 Son of the Black Dog

Agreed. And while I have no links, IIRC, the British upper crust was in favor of a negotiated peace with Germany after Dunkirk. Churchill was able to sustain his government by only a small margin. Obviously Hitler would have preferred going into Russia unfettered by a threat of war on his western front. The German minority populations and the lebensraum were in Eastern Europe and western Russia, not Britain.

Which goes hand in hand with shooting down another of Pat's arguements. Why would Hitler need strategic bombers and a surface fleet if the next stage of his plan was to conquer Russia? He wouldn't. If you're looking at the long haul, then once Russia and Europe were under his control, he would have had plenty of time, resources and labor to build a fleet and bombers in a relatively short time.

148 drcordell  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:59:16am

re: #126 sattv4u2

What an insightful and well thought out retort!

You trotted out the same tired "anyone to the left of me hates everything America does" bullshit. It's obvious that you think anyone to your left is somehow treasonous. I'm not going to waste my time when you've already made up your mind.

149 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:59:23am

re: #120 drcordell

Have your posts from 5 minutes ago already gone down the memory hole? How the hell else should I interpret this gem of yours?

"Where's drcordell to tell us Buchanan is wrong, WWII wasn't Britain's fault, it was America's fault?"

I already explained how you should interpret that in my post #67, that your worldview, as demonstrated in your arguments about Afghanistan AND the Iran/Iraq War which blames all bad outcomes on America while naively assuming good things happen only without US efforts.

150 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:59:24am

re: #109 buzzsawmonkey

I notice that Buchanan leaps nimbly over Germany's invasion and occupation of the Rhineland, which he did before invading Poland.

Bat Puchanan is just anschlussing down the Sudetenland towards oblivion.

151 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 10:59:33am

re: #145 Lee Coller

Buchanan's argument is that it was all over a small border town in Poland that had a majority German population, if only Poland had agreed to a land swap WWII would not have happened. The stupid is strong.

bottom line...

you can't fix stupid..

unless you use high explosive or a .308 rifle...

///

152 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:00:03am

re: #115 Cato the Elder

The Rhineland was Germany's and should never have been taken away under Versailles.

Speaking of the Rhineland: The American poet Charles Bukowski was born in 1920 in Andernach as the son of a German mother and a Polish-American US soldier, serving among the occupation troops.

153 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:00:15am

Don't be so hard on Pat. He lost a loved one at Auschwitz.

His uncle fell out of a guard tower.

154 pat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:00:19am

And it goes without saying that Buchanan has gotten progressively more extreme and dogmatic as times goes by. I turn off the TV when he comes on. When he was on the McLaughlin group years ago I watched him.

155 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:00:30am

For all of those who are making no true Scotsman arguments about Pat, the way the trends are going, Lizards are soon to be the no true Scotsman of the conservative world.

Did yu notice how much this site is despised by so many others for daring to challenge the group think that is emerging?

The reality is that the American right is going progressively more whako in very large doses.

156 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:00:56am

re: #145 Lee Coller

Buchanan's argument is that it was all over a small border town in Poland that had a majority German population, if only Poland had agreed to a land swap WWII would not have happened. The stupid is strong.

He's never heard of the Danzig Corridor?

157 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:00:57am

re: #132 MikeAlv77

Ya know, the sad part is I have a neighbor who feels this way. She thinks you can just "talk" your way through things...

Give her a gut check, then tell her you'll stop if she can talk you out of it.

158 drcordell  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:01:04am

re: #133 BlueCanuck

Hmmm, don't see him calling you a Nazi appeaser in that post. I think you are protesting far too much.

He said that I believe WWII is America's fault. I interpreted that to mean we caused the war by appeasing Hitler. Perhaps that is not what he intended. Either way it was completely uncalled for.

159 DaddyG  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:01:11am

re: #151 MikeAlv77

bottom line...

you can't fix stupid..

unless you use high explosive or a .308 rifle...

///


Peace through superior firepower.

160 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:01:47am

re: #153 Alouette

Don't be so hard on Pat. He lost a loved one at Auschwitz.

His uncle fell out of a guard tower.

Now thats funny.

161 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:01:55am

re: #146 Ward Cleaver

Townhall.com could be a useful site if it didn't let kooks like Buchanan on there.

That's like saying Fox could be great without Beck. They choose whom they support.

162 subsailor68  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:02:04am

Words fail me. From the Buchanan article:

Because Hitler wanted to end the war in 1940, almost two years before the trains began to roll to the camps.

What the hell is your point Buchanan? Is it that, had Hitler had ended the war in 1940, the trains to the camps wouldn't have rolled? Bullshit. The fact is, that's what he did, and there's no good reason to think that he wouldn't have taken those horrific steps anyway - with even greater (if that can be imagined) loss of life. Like the scorpion and the frog - it was in his nature.

And, there's a real nasty implication there - as I read it - that the Allies are therefore somehow responsible for the camps - because we didn't let Hitler win his little war.

I can't begin to say how reprehensible that is.

163 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:02:17am

re: #76 drcordell

Can you take a SINGLE THING that I post and not turn it into a straw-man argument. I am citing one specific instance in history where I believe we should not have taken the action we did. Stop putting words in my mouth god dammit.

To be fair, a large part of your argument also invovled the fact that it was 'known' that the Soviet Union was collapsing, hence no reason to make things difficult for them in Afghanistan. That assertion at the least implies, if not directly states, that US actions in opposition to the Soviets was wrong.
That's my take, doc.

164 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:02:19am

re: #148 drcordell

You trotted out the same tired "anyone to the left of me hates everything America does" bullshit. It's obvious that you think anyone to your left is somehow treasonous. I'm not going to waste my time when you've already made up your mind.

You have NO idea as to my politics, where on the spectrum I am, and talk about putting words into someones mouth

Post where I called ANYONE, left, right, center, politician, civilian, TREASONOUS

165 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:02:35am

re: #157 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Give her a gut check, then tell her you'll stop if she can talk you out of it.

I have. Asked her how she would have taken care of Hitler or if someone breaks into her house and wants to her her grandchildren... She changes the subject and gets mad. Some people don't to have their world view altered by reality.

166 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:02:40am

re: #148 drcordell

re: #149 Kenneth

[Dark_Falcon smacks cordell and Ken's heads together.] Will you two please stop squabbling?! It's getting insane.

167 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:02:42am

re: #115 Cato the Elder

The Rhineland was Germany's and should never have been taken away under Versailles. One of the reasons Hitler could thrive was the injustice done Germany after WWI.

WWII is just a continuation of WWI with a 19 year delay. The Treaty of Versailles was partially to blame for the rise of Hitler. When France fell in 1940, the Nazis made the French sign the peace terms in the same railway car the Germans had signed the Treaty of Versailles in. The reparations, disarmament and punitive penalties put on the Germans after WWI made it almost impossible to function as a country.

Hitler played that to the hilt and used it to fan the flames of nationalism.

168 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:02:49am

re: #135 Ringo the Gringo

Birther, no...Creationist, yes.


I can't find any sane People from the GOP anymore to listen too..
Frankly it would probably be easier to find a Virgin in Sodom.

169 Wendya  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:02:50am

re: #155 LudwigVanQuixote

The reality is that the American right is going progressively more whako in very large doses.


Severe tilts to the left result in severe tilts to the right. The country will eventually find the middle again.

170 Buster  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:03:18am

re: #115 Cato the Elder

The Rhineland was Germany's and should never have been taken away under Versailles. One of the reasons Hitler could thrive was the injustice done Germany after WWI.

Previous to WWII treaties, like Versailles, were all about punishment of the aggressor and often led to future aggression. The beauty of the Marshal plan was to break the cycle, and ease the aggressor back into the community of nations.

171 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:03:20am

re: #85 drcordell

I'm projecting?!?! Go read every single post on this thread. You keep talking about "my world view" and how I'm a Nazi loving Hitler appeaser. All because I dared to say we shouldn't have directly funded Islamic Jihadists in the 1980's.

I preferred the term you used earlier...squish. I love it.
/ :)

172 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:03:28am

re: #130 DaddyG

They also provided free relocation and decorating services. /

I am stunned that our populace is so ignorant of what happened just 50-60 years ago that this garbage could be taken seriously by anyone other than a few mouth breathing droolers who were raised by wolves.

I am stunned that our populace is so ignorant of what happened just 8 years ago.

173 Gus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:03:35am

Crackpot Nazi-sympathizer Patrick J. Buchanan gets top billing at Creator's Syndicate website linking to an article defending Hitler on the 70th anniversary of the start of WWII.

Of course he is a Creator's Syndicate member.

174 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:03:38am

re: #142 buzzsawmonkey

Perhaps so--but regardless of the "rights" involved, Germany's armed invasion of it prior to his invasion of Poland does nothing to bolster Buchanan's claim that Hitler was a man of peace.

Of course. But it is not black-and-white, any more than our support of the mujahideen against the Soviets was all good. In fact we'd all be better off today if Afghanistan were still a Russian problem.

175 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:03:47am

re: #155 LudwigVanQuixote

For all of those who are making no true Scotsman arguments about Pat, the way the trends are going, Lizards are soon to be the no true Scotsman of the conservative world.

Did yu notice how much this site is despised by so many others for daring to challenge the group think that is emerging?

The reality is that the American right is going progressively more whako in very large doses.

I haven't seen any such arguments. I'm sure they're coming, but they haven't appeared yet.

176 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:04:04am

re: #68 experiencedtraveller

The incredible story of Pvt. Tandey VC and Hitler.

Reminds me when IDF snipers had Arafat's head in the crosshairs, asked for the order, and never got it.

177 MJ  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:04:05am

re: #153 Alouette

Don't be so hard on Pat. He lost a loved one at Auschwitz.

His uncle fell out of a guard tower.

I still laugh at Molly Ivins quipped after Buchanan spoke at the 1992 Republican convention:

(It) "probably sounded better in the original German,"

178 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:04:08am
179 JohnnyReb  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:04:28am

re: #170 Buster

Previous to WWII treaties, like Versailles, were all about punishment of the aggressor and often led to future aggression. The beauty of the Marshal plan was to break the cycle, and ease the aggressor back into the community of nations.

It most definetly worked with Japan and West Germany both after WWII. Well that and the fact that we pretty much rebuilt both countries from the bottom up.

180 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:04:41am

re: #158 drcordell

He said that I believe WWII is America's fault. I interpreted that to mean we caused the war by appeasing Hitler. Perhaps that is not what he intended. Either way it was completely uncalled for.

No, I imagined you would simply argue the US caused WWII simply by going to war (2 years into it). And that Hitler would have lost anyway, and any bad outcome was the result of America's... what was the word you used repeatedly yesterday, oh yes, "stupid" strategy.

That was the general theme of your arguments yesterday.

181 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:04:56am

re: #169 Wendya

Severe tilts to the left result in severe tilts to the right. The country will eventually find the middle again.

Yes, but things this polarized are rarely forced back to sanity without some pain. The sever tilt to the left happened as a result of the sever tilt to the right. Now the right is tilting even further.

However much you may hate him, Clinton was centrist compared to Obama.

What ever you think of him W was way far to the right of Reagan.

182 Erik The Red  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:05:01am

re: #168 HoosierHoops

I can't find any sane People from the GOP anymore to listen too..
Frankly it would probably be easier to find a Virgin in Sodom.

Welcome to the club, buddy.

183 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:05:09am

Pat is rapidly sliding into the ol' "Hitler didn't do it-- and he should have finished the job!"-manner of thinking so popular in the Middle East.

In other news, just noticed this recent post on a blog that linked to one of my old reports -- and they make a good point:

Obama's old colleague Bill Ayers dedicated book to Sirhan Sirhan -- a fact not mentioned in the coverage of Obama's eulogy for Ted Kennedy.

Barack Obama’s close family friend Bill Ayers dedicated his 1960’s communist manifesto Prairie Fire to Robert F. Kennedy’s killer Sirhan Sirhan:

[pic]
Ayers mentions Obama by name in a book he wrote in 1997, and mentions that the two are very close neighbors. Obama gave a short glowing review of that same Ayers book for the Chicago Tribune.

Donna S. noted the dark irony from yesterday’s funeral:

I find it ironic that Obama gave a eulogy for Ted Kennedy when Obama’s friend, Bill Ayers, dedicated his book to Sirhan Sirhan, the murderer of Bobby Kennedy.

184 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:06:04am

re: #174 Cato the Elder

Of course. But it is not black-and-white, any more than our support of the mujahideen against the Soviets was all good. In fact we'd all be better off today if Afghanistan were still a Russian problem.

Possibly. But the Afghans wouldn't be.

185 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:06:10am

re: #165 MikeAlv77

I have. Asked her how she would have taken care of Hitler or if someone breaks into her house and wants to her her grandchildren... She changes the subject and gets mad. Some people don't to have their world view altered by reality.

Book I read a few years back had a bunch of pacifists blocking the good guys from attacking the bad guys by getting in the way and chanting slogans "fighting never solves anything, blah blah, etc".

The leader of the good guys said they were just as bad as the raiders and led a charge thru them first. I loved that part.

186 calcajun  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:06:50am

re: #6 Lucius Septimius

Paddy Boy is Marge Schott in drag.

No-- Pat is better looking.

Good Lord. Do tell me in what universe is Hitler to be considered "not so bad". OK, as a painter of cheap art, he was not so bad. As a fledgling architect, he was not so bad. As an orator, he was, in fact, pretty good. As a planner of infrastructure renewal, he was OK. But, tell me how, in the name of God, when you consider the sum of his parts, was he "good".

Pat, there's a "church" in Idaho -- with a cross and double lightening bolts-- where you'd feel right at home. Please go there--and stay there.

187 BlueCanuck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:07:02am

re: #174 Cato the Elder

Of course. But it is not black-and-white, any more than our support of the mujahideen against the Soviets was all good. In fact we'd all be better off today if Afghanistan were still a Russian problem.

Wouldn't have happened. Someone would have funded the mujhadeen if it wasn't the CIA or America. Either some oil tic, or another country. As well the Soviet Union would have left eventually. They were losing too many good men in that particular meat grinder. Something all superpower nations learn eventually.

188 callahan23  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:07:05am

Drive-by comment - Sorry late in the thread

but I need to vent my anger at this filthy 'Judenhasser' (jew-hating) bastard buchanan. He and all who give him credit deserve all the scorn and bad-mouthing that is possible.
This revisionist crap is only fodder for the absolutely demented, anybody who supports him and his views are not only crazy they are the lowest on my contempt-meter.
%P% rant-offttkkksss - need to go 'n run some errands - bbl

189 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:07:07am

Is he going to defend the trains next?

190 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:07:26am

re: #181 LudwigVanQuixote

What ever you think of him W was way far to the right of Reagan.

?!

191 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:07:34am

re: #184 Dianna

Possibly. But the Afghans wouldn't be.

I don't know about that - while I hate the communists, I would imagine that living in an 80's style SSR would be vastly better than living under the Talis.

192 Wendya  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:07:39am

re: #181 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, but things this polarized are rarely forced back to sanity without some pain. The sever tilt to the left happened as a result of the sever tilt to the right. Now the right is tilting even further.

However much you may hate him, Clinton was centrist compared to Obama.

What ever you think of him W was way far to the right of Reagan.

Clinton governed from the center because he was more concerned about staying in power and being well thought of than he was about what the left wanted.

I can't see how W was to the right of Reagan. His domestic policy was hated by most republicans.

193 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:07:42am

re: #175 Dianna

I haven't seen any such arguments. I'm sure they're coming, but they haven't appeared yet.

Often they are in the form of meltdowns. Gotta read 'em quick, beofre they hit the dustbin of history Stinky.

194 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:08:04am

re: #177 MJ

I still laugh at Molly Ivins quipped after Buchanan spoke at the 1992 Republican convention:

(It) "probably sounded better in the original German,"

I'm no fan of Molly Ivins, but she nailed that one right on the Pickelhaube.

195 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:08:04am

re: #185 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Book I read a few years back had a bunch of pacifists blocking the good guys from attacking the bad guys by getting in the way and chanting slogans "fighting never solves anything, blah blah, etc".

The leader of the good guys said they were just as bad as the raiders and led a charge thru them first. I loved that part.

"Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist."
-- George Orwell

196 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:08:11am

re: #189 Sharmuta

Is he going to defend the trains next?

Maybe he'll say he made them run on time...

//

197 calcajun  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:08:16am

re: #170 Buster

Previous to WWII treaties, like Versailles, were all about punishment of the aggressor and often led to future aggression. The beauty of the Marshal plan was to break the cycle, and ease the aggressor back into the community of nations.

Actually, the Congress of Vienna was not in that mode.

198 jill e  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:08:17am

Isn't this a smack in the face of all our WWII veterans who died fighting to defeat Hitler?

199 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:08:23am
200 norman1905  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:08:41am

Buchanan gets Churchill wrong. The war was unnecessary because no one stood up to Hitler when they had the chance. He saw the war coming years before 1939, but France and UK were tired of war and just put their heads in the sand.

201 yesandno  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:08:53am

Oh goodness...

I don't care what Hitler might have thought about this, that, or the other. I only care about what he did and there aren't enough words in any language to spin it, find a nuanced approach, or explain it away.

Pat Buchanan needs to be shunned.
Now and forever.
He has nothing to say worth listening to.

202 Lee Coller  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:09:02am

re: #192 Wendya

Clinton governed from the center because he was more concerned about staying in power and being well thought of than he was about what the left wanted.

I can't see how W was to the right of Reagan. His domestic policy was hated by most republicans.

"W" was a big government republican. How can you say that was to the right of Reagan?

203 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:09:12am

re: #189 Sharmuta

Is he going to defend the trains next?

Back in the late 90's, he flirted with Holocaust Denial.

204 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:09:21am

re: #160 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Now thats funny.

No, that's hilarious.

205 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:09:30am

Buchanan falls into the trap of rationalizing. In this case rationalizing the actions of a heinous figure. The bottom line is humans have a marvelous ability to rationalize just about anything and IMHO it's one of our most dangerous traits.
The only defense is to stay strongly moored to one's beliefs about right and wrong.
Hitler was spectacularly and evilly wrong. Period.

206 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:09:52am

A Catholic fascist, Buchanan,
Was known for his love of the cannon.
But only when turned
On people he spurned.
Such as Jews, Gypsies, Poles and O'Bannon.

207 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:09:54am

re: #191 LudwigVanQuixote

I don't know about that - while I hate the communists, I would imagine that living in an 80's style SSR would be vastly better than living under the Talis.

Read the chapter in the Black Book of Communism and then tell me that.

208 MJ  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:10:13am

re: #200 norman1905

Buchanan gets Churchill wrong. The war was unnecessary because no one stood up to Hitler when they had the chance. He saw the war coming years before 1939, but France and UK were tired of war and just put their heads in the sand.

Right. Read the article I posted from Spiegel:

The Road to World War II

Why Wasn't Hitler Stopped?

By Klaus Wiegrefe

World War II began 70 years ago when Germany invaded Poland on Sept. 1, 1939. It would last six years and claim millions of lives. But the Allies missed several opportunities to stop Hitler in the run-up to the war.

[Link: www.spiegel.de...]

209 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:10:22am

re: #191 LudwigVanQuixote

I don't know about that - while I hate the communists, I would imagine that living in an 80's style SSR would be vastly better than living under the Talis.

Diasgree with you there. The Soviets were trying to make the people of Afghanistan move from their way of loving into towns and cities to make control easier. They bombed and murdered their way through the countryside. They were also on their way out before we really got involved cause they knew it was a bad thing but their beauracy wouldn't allow them to leave and admit the mistake.

210 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:10:54am

re: #184 Dianna

Possibly. But the Afghans wouldn't be.

That could be disputed, if one cared to dispute hypotheticals.

211 calcajun  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:10:56am

re: #203 Dianna

Back in the late 90's, he flirted with Holocaust Denial.

Flirted? Sounds like they've been doin' the nasty for years.

212 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:11:44am

re: #189 Sharmuta

Is he going to defend the trains next?

Yes. I'm sure that is where his Jew-hate will lead him: Down a Path of the Damned, paved with lies.

213 drcordell  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:11:50am

re: #149 Kenneth

I already explained how you should interpret that in my post #67, that your worldview, as demonstrated in your arguments about Afghanistan AND the Iran/Iraq War which blames all bad outcomes on America while naively assuming good things happen only without US efforts.

Will you please, for the love of God, stop putting words in my mouth. I don't start threads taking cheap shots at you, do I?

For your sake, I'll try to explain this one more time. I never said that good things only happen with U.S. efforts. I said that taking the view that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" has produced unintended consequences for the U.S., especially with regard to the Middle East. I then cited the connection between Islamic Jihadists we trained in Afghanistan in the 80's to the current crop of Jidadists we are currently waging war against. I additionally cited the fact that the Iranian regime that Reagan funneled money and weapons to is currently our number one enemy in the region.

Note again, this does not mean I hate the U.S. This also does not mean I think the U.S. shouldn't do anything, ever. It's simply an acknowledgment that perhaps when determining allies we should not be as short sighted.

214 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:11:52am

re: #206 Cato the Elder

Who is "O'Bannon"?

215 MJ  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:11:58am

re: #205 LGoPs

Buchanan falls into the trap of rationalizing. In this case rationalizing the actions of a heinous figure. The bottom line is humans have a marvelous ability to rationalize just about anything and IMHO it's one of our most dangerous traits.
The only defense is to stay strongly moored to one's beliefs about right and wrong.
Hitler was spectacularly and evilly wrong. Period.

I don't think Buchanan is rationalizing. He knows exactly what he's doing...and why.

216 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:11:58am

re: #203 Dianna

Back in the late 90's, he flirted with Holocaust Denial.

Sounds like he's taking her out to dinner and making plans for a weekend getaway now

217 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:12:04am

re: #189 Sharmuta

Is he going to defend the trains next?

He's had JDS since he skippered Hitler's catamaran during the war. I expect defending the trains to come soon through some bend over backwards leap of illogic.

218 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:12:06am

re: #201 yesandno

Oh goodness...

I don't care what Hitler might have thought about this, that, or the other. I only care about what he did and there aren't enough words in any language to spin it, find a nuanced approach, or explain it away.

Pat Buchanan needs to be shunned.
Now and forever.
He has nothing to say worth listening to.

I agree, but there's no big voice out there to criticize him, now that William F. Buckley is gone. What would WFB make of Glenn Beck's insanity?

219 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:12:06am

re: #202 Lee Coller

"W" was a big government republican. How can you say that was to the right of Reagan?

Wendya didn't.

220 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:12:16am

re: #181 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, but things this polarized are rarely forced back to sanity without some pain. The sever tilt to the left happened as a result of the sever tilt to the right. Now the right is tilting even further.

However much you may hate him, Clinton was centrist compared to Obama.

What ever you think of him W was way far to the right of Reagan.

Clinton was pragmatic. He looked at what was best for him. His major accomplishments were mostly ideas forced upon him by the Republicans. Reagan was idealistic, but he had a Democrat Congress that blocked many of his plans...he had to work with them. Bush tried at times to be a centrist and he did many things that I do not consider "conservative" at all. Obama's problems are he is using the current economic crisis to push through things that would not stand a chance if the times were good. He thought he could play the role of FDR and pass whatever he wanted. His team over-extended themselves. I am not ready to count Obama out yet. He's proven himself pretty darn tough. But, He will have to move to the center or he will be marginalized.

221 Buster  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:12:18am

re: #189 Sharmuta

Is he going to defend the trains next?

Did you notice the line about the trains not rolling yet? It's as if he is blaming "the final solution" on the Polish also. The trains might not have been rolling yet...but the ball was.

222 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:12:34am

re: #174 Cato the Elder

*LGoPs puts on Sarah Palin mask and tiptoes up behind Cato and taps him on the shoulder*
BOO!

Nyuk, nyuk.

223 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:12:38am

re: #202 Lee Coller

"W" was a big government republican. How can you say that was to the right of Reagan?

Wendya didn't, Ludwig did. Wendya refuted it

224 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:12:48am

re: #203 Dianna

Back in the late 90's, he flirted with Holocaust Denial.

It's not too late- I really think he should just go for it. Why just dabble in historical revisionism?

225 Lee Coller  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:13:04am

re: #219 Dianna

Wendya didn't.

Sorry, nested quote problem, I should have been addressing LudwigVanQuixote

226 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:13:20am

re: #214 zombie

Who is "O'Bannon"?

Some random Mick Buchanan don't care for.

227 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:13:45am

re: #200 norman1905

Buchanan gets Churchill wrong. The war was unnecessary because no one stood up to Hitler when they had the chance. He saw the war coming years before 1939, but France and UK were tired of war and just put their heads in the sand.

Yes, plenty of opportunities to stop the Austrian paperhanger, but none were taken.

The French could've retaken the Rhineland with a single division.
Mussolini could've been smarter about Hitler's designs on Austria.
The British could've said no at Munich and stopped him from occupying the Sudetenland.
Stalin could've had a more aggressive stance instead of signing the non-aggression pact.

Plenty of opportunities passed everyone by. It is a lesson to be remembered and not repeated.

228 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:13:57am

re: #213 drcordell

Will you please, for the love of God, stop putting words in my mouth. I don't start threads taking cheap shots at you, do I?

For your sake, I'll try to explain this one more time. I never said that good things only happen with U.S. efforts. I said that taking the view that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" has produced unintended consequences for the U.S., especially with regard to the Middle East. I then cited the connection between Islamic Jihadists we trained in Afghanistan in the 80's to the current crop of Jidadists we are currently waging war against. I additionally cited the fact that the Iranian regime that Reagan funneled money and weapons to is currently our number one enemy in the region.

Note again, this does not mean I hate the U.S. This also does not mean I think the U.S. shouldn't do anything, ever. It's simply an acknowledgment that perhaps when determining allies we should not be as short sighted.

That is a reasonable clarification. Kenneth, please drop the matter now.

229 calcajun  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:13:57am

re: #206 Cato the Elder

Dueling doggerel:

There once was a pundit named Pat
Who on the far right he once sat
But then he did chose
To support those who killed Jews
and he now wears his ass for a hat.

230 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:14:12am

re: #210 Cato the Elder

That could be disputed, if one cared to dispute hypotheticals.

Honestly, it's not really worth disputing. Misery is misery, and I don't much care for saying, "well, this was really awful, but maybe that sucked a little more" when it comes to people being oppressed and killed.

231 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:14:20am

re: #219 Dianna

Wendya didn't.

I thought she was trying to reinforce the point, as in agreement.

232 Buster  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:14:24am

re: #197 calcajun

Actually, the Congress of Vienna was not in that mode.

The exception that proves the rule?

233 Wendya  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:14:54am

re: #202 Lee Coller

"W" was a big government republican. How can you say that was to the right of Reagan?

The left always characterizes each new elected republican as being further to the right than ever before. Other than the WOT, Bush was really a throwback to the old country club republicans.

234 Kronocide  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:15:31am

Buchannon has gone off the deep end. This article is a serious contender for 3rd quarter '09 winner of the WTF? Article of The Year.

235 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:16:11am

re: #231 Ward Cleaver

I thought she was trying to reinforce the point, as in agreement.

I can't see how W was to the right of Reagan. His domestic policy was hated by most republicans.

nope ,, she was stating that W's domestic policies were not well recieved by conservatives, thereby making him NOT to the right of Reagan

236 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:16:11am

re: #221 Buster

Did you notice the line about the trains not rolling yet? It's as if he is blaming "the final solution" on the Polish also. The trains might not have been rolling yet...but the ball was.

He's Irish, right? Should I be surprised if he's bigoted toward Eastern Europeans?

Can someone start a grass roots campaign to get his excommunicated from the Church? Why should Beck have all the fun?

237 sffilk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:16:30am

re: #74 Charles

Sorry, but there are also plenty of so-called "real" conservatives who have no hesitation about praising Pat Buchanan -- people like Joe Scarborough and Sean Hannity, for example. His articles are published at every major conservative website -- in addition to Stormfront and the neo-Nazi sites.

You can't blame this one on a plot by MSNBC to make conservatives look bad. They're doing a fine job of it themselves.

Out of curiosity, Charles, how would you classify the McLaughlin Group? He's one of the permanent poobahs (for lack of a better term).

238 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:16:34am

re: #194 Honorary Yooper

I'm no fan of Molly Ivins, but she nailed that one right on the Pickelhaube.

Although antiquated by 1914, the pickelhaube was quite fashionable and highly desired as a souvenir.

239 calcajun  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:16:36am

re: #232 Buster

No-- it was the model that provided for European stability for 50 years until the rise of Germany and the Franco-Prussian war of 1870.

240 Lee Coller  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:16:51am

re: #231 Ward Cleaver

I thought she was trying to reinforce the point, as in agreement.

That's exactly what I was intending to do, I just didn't word it well. By the way, their's an extra "s" in your response, save it for the next person who refers to Sharmuta as a "he".

241 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:17:11am

Gordon Brown did not want Lockerbie bomber to die in jail, minute reveals

Abdulati Alobidi, the Libyan Minister for Europe, told how he had warned Bill Rammell, a Foreign Office Minister visiting Tripoli, that Abdul Baset Ali al-Megrahi should not be allowed to die in a Scottish prison.

"Mr Alobidi confirmed that he had reiterated to Mr Rammell that the death of Mr Megrahi in a Scottish prison would have catastrophic effects for the relationship between Libya and the UK," the note released by the Scottish government said.

"Mr Alobidi went on to say that Mr Rammell had stated that neither the Prime Minister nor the Foreign Secretary would want Mr Megrahi to pass away in prison but the decision on transfer lies in the hands of the Scottish ministers."

242 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:17:17am

re: #234 BigPapa

Buchannon has gone off the deep end. This article is a serious contender for 3rd quarter '09 winner of the WTF? Article of The Year.

But it's not really a WTF moment. Buchanan has been building up to this for years. This from him is just one more step on the road to Hell.

243 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:17:25am

re: #233 Wendya

The left always characterizes each new elected republican as being further to the right than ever before. Other than the WOT, Bush was really a throwback to the old country club republicans.

I always thought of W as a kind of Rockefeller-type Republican, but I think he was well-meaning.

244 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:17:33am

re: #236 Sharmuta

He's Irish, right? Should I be surprised if he's bigoted toward Eastern Europeans?

I'm sure you meant no harm, but pretty broad brush there, no?

245 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:17:34am
246 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:17:59am

re: #191 LudwigVanQuixote

I don't know about that - while I hate the communists, I would imagine that living in an 80's style SSR would be vastly better than living under the Talis.

Afghanistan is presenting us the same problems is has presented everyone who has ever shown up there. They do not want to be Persians, or Mughals, or British, or Soviet, nor do they want to be like the Americans. They want to be Pashtuns or Ghilzai or Tajik. The problem today is, they cannot exist in a vacuum any longer and be left alone. Not when they harbor Afghan Arabs and the Taliban. They are part of the big bad world now. If we leave this place again, it will only be worse when we have to come back.

247 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:18:29am

re: #227 Honorary Yooper

Yes, plenty of opportunities to stop the Austrian paperhanger, but none were taken.

The French could've retaken the Rhineland with a single division.
Mussolini could've been smarter about Hitler's designs on Austria.
The British could've said no at Munich and stopped him from occupying the Sudetenland.
Stalin could've had a more aggressive stance instead of signing the non-aggression pact.

Plenty of opportunities passed everyone by. It is a lesson to be remembered and not repeated.

20/20 hindsight...but correct

248 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:18:36am

re: #213 drcordell

You did claim that the USSR was going to collapse anyway, and supporting the mujaheddin in Af'stan had nothing to do with it. You also claimed that if the US had kept out of the Iran/Iraq war, it would have turned out fine (historians are clear on this point: Iran would have won). And you claimed that because the US liberated Iraq from Saddam, "Iran now controls the the Persian Gulf".

It seems pretty clear from all that, you see that good things only happen when the US is not involved, any good outcomes would have happened anyway, and US involvement always results in bad things.

249 Silvergirl  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:18:38am

re: #206 Cato the Elder

I bet you can't work Deng Xiaoping into your list of spurned names.
As in Pat Buchanan's Deng Xiaoping Is a Chain-Smoking Communist Dwarf.

250 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:18:49am

re: #240 Lee Coller

That's exactly what I was intending to do, I just didn't word it well. By the way, their's an extra "s" in your response, save it for the next person who refers to Sharmuta as a "he".

Sorry about that.

251 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:19:01am

re: #244 sattv4u2

What? He seems bigoted towards everybody. I have to be nice to pat buchanan now?

252 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:19:18am

PJ Haiku:

Patrick Buchanan (5)
Rewrites his hearts desire (7)
As the trains roll (5)

253 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:19:30am

re: #245 buzzsawmonkey

It was Mussolini of whom it was said, "he made the trains run on time."

But Hitler kept the trains running on time, too: it is a little-known fact that, although the German Army desperately needed supplies on the Eastern Front as the Soviet Army advanced, the freight trains carrying Jews to the gas chambers were given priority. It was more important to Hitler to ship Jews to their death than it was to supply his own armies.

That is because the extermination of the Jews was as much a military objective for Hitler and the Nazis as the capture and holding of territory or the defeat of an opposing army--if not, indeed, more so.

Something to remember when confronted with claims that Hitler was just a misunderstood pussycat.

Quite Concur. And now I must go to work. Keep the faith, all.

254 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:19:42am

Buchanan's a communicator with ability to suck the reader in under guise of promoting an agenda the reader may agree with. Then insidiously he slides in his racist bile. The reader may not even realize he's being inculcated. I admit that only a short while back reading a piece of his I was drawn in only to be deservedly ameliorated here.

255 drcordell  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:19:44am

re: #163 LGoPs

To be fair, a large part of your argument also invovled the fact that it was 'known' that the Soviet Union was collapsing, hence no reason to make things difficult for them in Afghanistan. That assertion at the least implies, if not directly states, that US actions in opposition to the Soviets was wrong.
That's my take, doc.

Thank you for actually reading what I wrote. My overall point kind of got muddled down because of all the tangential arguments that spawned from my original post. Yes, it would have been nice if we had known that the Soviets were fucked even without our intervention in Afghanistan. But obviously hindsight is 20/20. It's not that I opposed our intervention per se, moreso the fact that we had to ally ourselves with the scum of the earth.

I acknowledge that we had greater foreign policy aims when taking many of these actions. But I am hoping that in the future we take a step back and weigh short-term foreign policy goals against the long-term consequences of jumping into bed with groups whose only allegiance to America is hatred of a common enemy.

256 opnion  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:19:50am

I'll bet that Mrs. Hitler agreed with Buchanan, "My Adolf is a good boy. It's that bad company that he keeps, that Rudy Hess & that Eichman boy."

257 ladycatnip  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:20:03am

#125 Hoosier Hoops

I have a question...After the game last night I was flipping through stations and came across Laura Ingraham (sic) She seemed pretty cool.. Please don't tell me is a Birther or Creationist.

Laura is right on the money politically, socially and morally. She's a devout Catholic so she may believe in creation, which milions of Christians happen to believe because it's part of our faith. That doesn't mean we throw the baby out with the bath water. I listened to her for years when I drove in the early morning, but haven't for the last year so I'm not up on what she's currently been talking about. Either way, she shouldn't be measured by the litmus test of whether she believes God created the earth or not. She's never been about that, as millions of Christians aren't.

258 MJ  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:20:07am

re: #245 buzzsawmonkey

It was Mussolini of whom it was said, "he made the trains run on time."

But Hitler kept the trains running on time, too: it is a little-known fact that, although the German Army desperately needed supplies on the Eastern Front as the Soviet Army advanced, the freight trains carrying Jews to the gas chambers were given priority. It was more important to Hitler to ship Jews to their death than it was to supply his own armies.

That is because the extermination of the Jews was as much a military objective for Hitler and the Nazis as the capture and holding of territory or the defeat of an opposing army--if not, indeed, more so.

Something to remember when confronted with claims that Hitler was just a misunderstood pussycat.

Right.
For more see
Lucy Dawidowicz's "The War Against the Jews".

259 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:20:07am

re: #215 MJ

I don't think Buchanan is rationalizing. He knows exactly what he's doing...and why.

I'm not sure. Perhaps. But I still think that the ability to self rationalize allows people to do heinous things and still look themselves in the mirror.
I seriously doubt that Hitler got up in the morning, looked in the mirror and laughed diabolically saying "Schiesse, am I evil or what?" No doubt he thought he was a strong leader acting in the interests of his people. That to me is even scarier than assuming that he did the MWAHAHAHA laugh every morning. I think the term for it is the 'banality of evil'.

260 BlackFedora  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:20:14am

Crazy god damn paleocon...

My favorite part was this,

Winston Churchill was right when he called it "The Unnecessary War" -- the war that may yet prove the mortal blow to our civilization.

Now that takes a special kind of asshole. Bravo Pat.

261 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:20:39am

re: #251 Sharmuta

What? He seems bigoted towards everybody. I have to be nice to pat buchanan now?

No. Please re-read what I italiciezd

HE's IRISH ,,, HE's BIGOTED TOWARD EASTERN EURPEANS

No ,, he's Pat Buchanan, he's bigoted ,,, has nothing to do with his IRISHness

262 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:21:37am

re: #226 Cato the Elder

Some random Mick Buchanan don't care for.

Oh. In that case, a rewrite is called for!:

---

"Hitler" says his pal Buchanan,
"The flames of war was never fannin'.
It's just that the Jews
controlled all the news,
Thus had hides that needed some tannin'!"

263 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:22:00am

re: #209 MikeAlv77

Diasgree with you there. The Soviets were trying to make the people of Afghanistan move from their way of loving into towns and cities to make control easier. They bombed and murdered their way through the countryside. They were also on their way out before we really got involved cause they knew it was a bad thing but their beauracy wouldn't allow them to leave and admit the mistake.

Woah, I am not defending the Soviets. They were monstrous.

However, the Talis do their share of murder and terror as well. They are just as if not more brutal, and then their is the added dimension of their treatment of women, their hatred of industrialization and their standards of education.

I would heat being in either system, but under the soviets at least there weren't burka police and summary executions if they did not think you prayed enough.

264 Wendya  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:22:21am

re: #255 drcordell

But I am hoping that in the future we take a step back and weigh short-term foreign policy goals against the long-term consequences of jumping into bed with groups whose only allegiance to America is hatred of a common enemy.

Short term policy goals? We were nearly 30 years into the cold war at the time.

265 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:22:35am

re: #251 Sharmuta

What? He seems bigoted towards everybody. I have to be nice to pat buchanan now?

No, it was this, Shar, that paints with a broad brush,

He's Irish, right? Should I be surprised if he's bigoted toward Eastern Europeans?

In other words, you inferred that because he is Irish, he would automatically be bigotted against Eastern Europeans. Buchanan is a bigot, but it is not because he is Irish or Catholic or American. He is a bigot because he is one.

266 Silvergirl  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:22:38am

re: #251 Sharmuta

What? He seems bigoted towards everybody. I have to be nice to pat buchanan now?

Slow down, you move too fast.

267 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:23:01am

re: #229 calcajun

Dueling doggerel:

There once was a pundit named Pat
Who on the far right he once sat
But then he did chose
To support those who killed Jews
and he now wears his ass for a hat.

Close, but the extra syllables throw it off!

268 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:23:07am

Meanwhile, another sick Pat, Robertson, is said to be healing well after heart surgery. No word as to what he thinks the shut-eyed, concentrated, "don't interrupt me I'm in direct contact with God" prayers he said for himself are worth in, say, donations from little old ladies with liver spots, or why he was unable to supplicate himself out of needing any operation at all.

269 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:23:13am

Pat Buchanan deals in half-truths, cherry-picking and mind-reading.
(Not to mention out-of-context, like the Churchill quote)

A trivial (heh) fact, Mr. Buchanan: ... if Hitler was so intent upon ending it after establishing a just solution to the Polish question, then why was the Graf Spee sent into the South Atlantic well before German troops crossed the Polish border?

/and why, exactly, did he not want Il Duce invading Greece?

270 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:23:17am

re: #262 zombie

Oh. In that case, a rewrite is called for!:

---

"Hitler" says his pal Buchanan,
"The flames of war was never fannin'.
It's just that the Jews
controlled all the news,
Thus had hides that needed some tannin'!"

Given the Nazi propensity to make human skins into gloves, this is in bad taste.

271 kansas  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:23:51am

France fell? Paris fell? How the hell did they do that?

272 sffilk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:24:17am

re: #154 pat

And it goes without saying that Buchanan has gotten progressively more extreme and dogmatic as times goes by. I turn off the TV when he comes on. When he was on the McLaughlin group years ago I watched him.

He is still on the McLaughlin Group.

273 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:24:28am

re: #270 LudwigVanQuixote

Given the Nazi propensity to make human skins into gloves, this is in bad taste.

Uh -- that was the point. Buchanan is excusing atrocities.

274 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:24:52am

re: #261 sattv4u2

Look- some europeans think they're better than other europeans. It's usually a division of west/east or north /south. Just wondering if he's got a similar attitude being Western as opposed to Easter European. And I wouldn't be surprised if his hatred of Churchill had something to do with long standing historical grudges either.

275 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:25:14am

re: #270 LudwigVanQuixote

Given the Nazi propensity to make human skins into gloves, this is in bad taste.

And I also know you weren't thinking about that at all, and meant no offense at all.

276 Shug  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:25:24am

Pat Buchanan fits right in at MSNBC

277 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:25:29am

re: #257 ladycatnip

Laura is right on the money politically, socially and morally. She's a devout Catholic so she may believe in creation, which milions of Christians happen to believe because it's part of our faith.

I would doubt she's a young-earth creationist if she is in fact a devout Catholic. The Church disapproves of that kind of literalism in reading the Bible. The Vatican is on record stating that humans did indeed evolve.

278 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:25:38am

re: #270 LudwigVanQuixote

Given the Nazi propensity to make human skins into gloves, this is in bad taste.

Which is why I excoriated Tarantino for having his Jewish GIs take Nazi scalps. Why not make lampshades out of them, too?

279 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:25:51am

re: #257 ladycatnip

Either way, she shouldn't be measured by the litmus test of whether she believes God created the earth or not. She's never been about that

That is not what Creationism is about either.

280 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:25:59am

re: #273 zombie

Uh -- that was the point. Buchanan is excusing atrocities.

I know he was. I have no beef with you. It's a sore subject however.

281 Silvergirl  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:26:03am

re: #274 Sharmuta

Look- some europeans think they're better than other europeans. It's usually a division of west/east or north /south. Just wondering if he's got a similar attitude being Western as opposed to Easter European. And I wouldn't be surprised if his hatred of Churchill had something to do with long standing historical grudges either.

It stills looks like a broad brush, even after I looked.

282 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:26:36am

re: #245 buzzsawmonkey

Hitler's near miraculous survival of 4 years combat on the western front in WWI surely fueled his supremacist fantasies.

283 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:26:38am

Hitler didn't want war, he wanted the Allied Forces to surrender.

284 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:27:07am

re: #278 Cato the Elder

Which is why I excoriated Tarantino for having his Jewish GIs take Nazi scalps. Why not make lampshades out of them, too?

Don't even get me started on that that movie.

285 MJ  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:27:33am

re: #278 Cato the Elder

Which is why I excoriated Tarantino for having his Jewish GIs take Nazi scalps. Why not make lampshades out of them, too?

Cato, there's a interesting review here about that very topic:

Inglourious Basterds: A German Fantasy, Not a ‘Jewish’ One

With millions of euros from the German government, the film depicts Jews slaughtering not Nazis, but ordinary German soldiers.

[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]

286 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:27:49am

re: #283 Ringo the Gringo

Hitler didn't want war, he wanted the Allied Forces to surrender.

He wanted piece. A piece of Russia a piece of France...

287 BlueCanuck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:28:01am

re: #278 Cato the Elder

Which is why I excoriated Tarantino for having his Jewish GIs take Nazi scalps. Why not make lampshades out of them, too?

Taking scalps is a long muddled history. I do agree it's barbaric. Then again we are talking about Tarantino. Never one to pass on gore when he can.

288 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:28:02am

re: #283 Ringo the Gringo

Hitler didn't want war, he wanted the Allied Forces to surrender.

Yes, and all those fancy new planes, tanks, artillery pieces, and submarines they started building in the late 30's where just for show too!

289 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:28:35am

re: #285 MJ

Cato, there's a interesting review here about that very topic:

Inglourious Basterds: A German Fantasy, Not a ‘Jewish’ One

With millions of euros from the German government, the film depicts Jews slaughtering not Nazis, but ordinary German soldiers.

[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]

All of my Jewish friends were sickened by that flick.

290 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:28:44am

re: #286 LudwigVanQuixote

He wanted piece. A piece of Russia a piece of France...

Isn't that an old Mel Brooks gag? Still funny.

291 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:28:50am

re: #281 Silvergirl

I'm not going to paint pretty when discussing european ethnic nationalism and their American counterparts.

292 bj1126  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:29:06am

Ugg Charles did you have to post this? My lunch is trying to come back up now.

293 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:29:09am

re: #287 BlueCanuck

Taking scalps is a long muddled history. I do agree it's barbaric. Then again we are talking about Tarantino. Never one to pass on gore when he can.

True, but in the context, not so cool.

294 Teh Flowah  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:29:10am

I wonder. Buchanan makes a big deal out of Danzig being mostly German. If, as the trend is now, the Southwest of the United States becomes a mostly hispanic area, would he also advocate that Mexico be allowed to reclaim it? Afterall, similar to how Germany lost Danzig with the Versaille treaty, the United States took that territory in a war.

Ok, I'm lying. I don't wonder, I already know the answer. Of course he wouldn't.

295 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:29:26am

re: #278 Cato the Elder

Which is why I excoriated Tarantino for having his Jewish GIs take Nazi scalps. Why not make lampshades out of them, too?

Since you have excoriated Tarantino, what do you intend to make os his sorry hide?

/

296 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:29:26am

re: #290 zombie

Isn't that an old Mel Brooks gag? Still funny.

From the Producers I think.

297 garycooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:29:37am

re: #113 LudwigVanQuixote

I personally just look at them for what they are. Enemies of all I hold dear.

Torah has a great word to describe the likes of Pat.

Amalek.

"Moses took dictation from G-d."

God hates Pat Buchenwald.

298 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:29:48am

re: #290 zombie

Isn't that an old Mel Brooks gag? Still funny.

Sure is - though I think it is even older than Mel Brooks.

299 Shug  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:30:07am

Since this is a Hitler topic, has anybody mentioned his fantastic comprehensive healthcare plan yet?

/

300 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:30:34am

re: #297 garycooper

"Moses took dictation from G-d."

God hates Pat Buchenwald.

Now is the time for you to explain what you mean by that.

301 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:30:45am

re: #274 Sharmuta

Look- some europeans think they're better than other europeans. It's usually a division of west/east or north /south. Just wondering if he's got a similar attitude being Western as opposed to Easter European. And I wouldn't be surprised if his hatred of Churchill had something to do with long standing historical grudges either.

I have no doubts that much of that is true. However, I just think your original was clumsiliy worded. Those two sentences combined (He's Irish, right? Should I be surprised if he's bigoted toward Eastern Europeans?) makes it look as if you're saying Irish are bigoted towards Eastern Eurpopeans

Are some? Of course.

Are most? maybe

But it looked broad brushish to me. Sorry

302 Silvergirl  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:30:46am

re: #291 Sharmuta

I'm not going to paint pretty when discussing european ethnic nationalism and their American counterparts.

It looked like a singling out of the Irish. That was the appearance. Intent, probably not.

303 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:30:48am

re: #299 Shug

Since this is a Hitler topic, has anybody mentioned his fantastic comprehensive healthcare plan yet?

/

Glenn Beck is on it, Dude.

304 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:31:10am

re: #298 LudwigVanQuixote

Sure is - though I think it is even older than Mel Brooks.

No one is older than Mel Brooks -- he's the 2000-year-old man!

(Actually, 2040-year-old man at this point.)

305 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:31:37am

re: #303 Sharmuta

Glenn Beck is on it, Dude.

Will we have to wear those little arm bands and march in the goose-step when we see the doctor now?

/

306 Shug  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:32:10am

re: #305 Desert Dog

Will we have to wear those little arm bands and march in the goose-step when we see the doctor now?

/

The doctor already sees you, even if you don't see him

307 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:32:21am

re: #305 Desert Dog

Will we have to wear those little arm bands and march in the goose-step when we see the doctor now?

/

You want to SEE a DOCTOR!?!

/

308 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:33:13am

re: #295 OldLineTexan

Since you have excoriated Tarantino, what do you intend to make os his sorry hide?

/

Thank you for noticing. I choose my words deliberately.

I'm thinking, in his case, a Book of Houris (Koran).

309 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:34:03am

re: #307 OldLineTexan

You want to SEE a DOCTOR!?!

/

LOL, He must think he's a Senator or something.

310 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:34:04am

re: #291 Sharmuta

I'm not going to paint pretty when discussing european ethnic nationalism and their American counterparts.

We know a lot about European nationalism, but Buchanan was not brought up in Ireland. He was raised in the US, and Buchanan is a Jew-hating bigot because he is a bigot, not because of any underlying ethnic origins. To use ethnic origins to to excuse his bigotry.

311 Randall Gross  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:34:14am

I don't have long because things are going heavy at work, but wanted to note that Pukecannon is parroting a Putin line here. The Neo imperialist Russia is also putting this swill around.

312 BlueCanuck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:34:30am

re: #296 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

From the Producers I think.

Nope, from "To be, or Not to be".

313 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:34:44am

re: #303 Sharmuta

Glenn Beck is on it, Dude.

Euchre is a euphemism for euthanasia and eugenics!

314 garycooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:35:03am

re: #245 buzzsawmonkey

It was Mussolini of whom it was said, "he made the trains run on time."

But Hitler kept the trains running on time, too: it is a little-known fact that, although the German Army desperately needed supplies on the Eastern Front as the Soviet Army advanced, the freight trains carrying Jews to the gas chambers were given priority. It was more important to Hitler to ship Jews to their death than it was to supply his own armies.

That is because the extermination of the Jews was as much a military objective for Hitler and the Nazis as the capture and holding of territory or the defeat of an opposing army--if not, indeed, more so.

Something to remember when confronted with claims that Hitler was just a misunderstood pussycat.

Well, the Germans also had this little problem with Russian partisans ripping up train tracks, heating them and bending them into loops, and then ambushing repair-crews. But, it's true the murdering of Jews kept going right up until the end.

315 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:35:12am

re: #304 zombie

No one is older than Mel Brooks -- he's the 2000-year-old man!

(Actually, 2040-year-old man at this point.)

I do enjoy Mel...

Youtube Video
316 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:35:19am
317 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:36:04am
318 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:36:06am

re: #297 garycooper

"Moses took dictation from G-d."

God hates Pat Buchenwald.

I am still waiting for an explanation.

319 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:36:25am

re: #301 sattv4u2

I might be the only person at LGF who will stick up for Bono- a man who has taken the time and effort to help the impoverished around the world. Certainly don't think it's any more cultural in Ireland than it would be anywhere else- it always comes down to individuals. Most people are great, some are assholes. But in trying to understand the dynamics of hatred, geography and history can and does play a role. One of my former neighbors was an Irish woman married to a Pole. I don't think it's a issue in Ireland that they hate Poles. I think it's an issue of Buchanan thinking he's a Pure Blood over Mudbloods, if I can go Harry Potter.

320 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:36:49am

re: #312 BlueCanuck

Nope, from "To be, or Not to be".

Mel Brooks "Hitler Rap" video

Youtube Video
321 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:36:53am

re: #317 garycooper

Now is the time for you to start one of your little tantrums. It's been too long! :)

NO Gary, just explain what you meant by that. How angry I get will depend on what you say.

322 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:37:11am

re: #313 Kenneth

Euchre is a euphemism for euthanasia and eugenics!

And here I thought it was simply a fun little card game with 4 people (2 teams of 2), five cards each, a kitty, and where the Jack of trump is high (right bower) and the Jack of the other suit, same color, is the second high card (left bower).

323 jaunte  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:37:24am
it always comes down to individuals. Most people are great, some are assholes.


+++++++++++++++++++++++!

324 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:37:42am
325 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:37:56am

re: #316 buzzsawmonkey

I was not going to see the Tarantino film simply because I dislike gorefests, but it appears from the comments above that his film is simply the latest entry in the "Jews are the real Nazis" line that is being pushed these days.

And I'm not seeing it because the glorious days of the impossible, unrealistic WW2 film ended in the '60's and '70's (thankfully). I have no desire to see Kelly's Heroes with extra special effects and that spayshul QT touch.

I am flirting with watching Spike Lee's Miracle at St. Anna, though.

326 Chekote  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:38:46am

I red the column and I am speechless. Next Buchanan will join the Holocaust deniers.

327 Silvergirl  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:39:00am

re: #321 LudwigVanQuixote

NO Gary, just explain what you meant by that. How angry I get will depend on what you say.

Doesn't how angry a person gets, especially over comments on a blog, depend more on himself?

328 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:39:49am

re: #327 Silvergirl

Doesn't how angry a person gets, especially over comments on a blog, depend more on himself?

Seething is a communicable disease.

329 Shug  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:40:08am

re: #327 Silvergirl

Doesn't how angry a person gets, especially over comments on a blog, depend more on himself?

Ding ding ding.

winner

330 garycooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:40:17am

re: #318 LudwigVanQuixote

I am still waiting for an explanation.

Wait for G-dot, instead.

331 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:40:33am

re: #319 Sharmuta

I might be the only person at LGF who will stick up for Bono

Sharm, you don't have to list your bono fides (kind of a pun) here. All I said was that it looked broad brushish. As SilverGirl stated I am also sure it wasn't the INTENT. But it was clumsily worded, imho

332 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:40:53am

re: #326 Chekote

I red the column and I am speechless. Next Buchanan will join the Holocaust deniers.

He wrote a column back in 1999 that qualifies.

333 sffilk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:41:04am

re: #326 Chekote

I red the column and I am speechless. Next Buchanan will join the Holocaust deniers.

I thought he was a charter member!

334 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:41:12am

re: #326 Chekote

I red the column and I am speechless. Next Buchanan will join the Holocaust deniers.

I think Buchanan is already in that special place where there are people who on one hand deny the Holocaust, and on the other, wish Hitler had gone further with it. It's disgusting in the extreme.

335 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:41:14am

re: #316 buzzsawmonkey

I was not going to see the Tarantino film simply because I dislike gorefests, but it appears from the comments above that his film is simply the latest entry in the "Jews are the real Nazis" line that is being pushed these days.

My wife and I decided not to go for the same reason.

336 Shug  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:41:14am

re: #321 LudwigVanQuixote

NO Gary, just explain what you meant by that. How angry I get will depend on what you say.


You wouldn't happen to be posting from a truck stop would you?

337 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:41:25am

re: #330 garycooper

Wait for G-dot, instead.

Nothing to be done.

338 Coracle  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:41:44am

re: #330 garycooper

Wait for G-dot, instead.

There are many people of faith on this board. Yet you choose to single out LVQ to mock his.

339 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:42:18am

re: #324 buzzsawmonkey

You are wrongly conflating the destruction of railway lines with the allocation of the rolling stock--and your comment in consequence makes no sense.

A BTW "also": the shipping of Jews to the camps severely restricted the return-trip transport of German wounded to hospitals in the fatherland, further straining supply problems at the front, etc.

340 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:42:28am

You know, I don't think Hitler wanted war.

I think he wanted other countries to passively hand over everything he & his cronies wanted, without fighting. War meant someone was fighting back.

341 gonecamping  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:42:30am

I half expected to hear a cuckoo clock soundbite when clicking on this link.
Sheesh, not to change the subject, but my ears are still ringing from that whacky female congress critter extoling the virtues of Castro and Che .

342 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:42:57am

re: #336 Shug

You wouldn't happen to be posting from a truck stop would you?

No, that guy got banned a few times thus far. As much as I may disagree with LVQ, he is not posting from a truck stop.

343 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:43:04am

I'm going to walk my dogs and lie down for a bit.

Stupid flu.

It's a good question whether my head hurts so bad from the flu, trying to read the screen, or bloody Pat Buchanan.

344 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:43:43am
345 garycooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:43:46am

re: #324 buzzsawmonkey

You are wrongly conflating the destruction of railway lines with the allocation of the rolling stock--and your comment in consequence makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense. You said the Germans were more interested in killing Jews than supplying the Russian front. I know they were interested in both, but a lot more successful at one than the other. Nobody was stopping the concentration camp trains from running, like the Russians were destroying the German supply-lines.

346 flyers1974  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:44:05am

re: #243 Ward Cleaver

I always thought of W as a kind of Rockefeller-type Republican, but I think he was well-meaning.

His positions on social issues and identification with the Christian-Right would distinguish him from Rockefeller Republicans. Not that the term means much anymore, I think originally, it meant roughly fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

347 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:44:30am

re: #327 Silvergirl

Doesn't how angry a person gets, especially over comments on a blog, depend more on himself?

No, let's not make this about me.

I want to know what he meant by that.

Was he perhaps mocking the idea, a core principle of the Jewish faith, that Moses actually did take dictation from G-d, or was he perhaps mocking the notion of Amalek?

Also, out of context what he is quoting. I had answered a question about biblical criticism and said that there are many who do take all sorts of views about the authorship of the Torah, but it was a core principle of the faith that Moses took dictation.

Was he just snarking out of the blue in an attempt to piss people off?

And what about the G-d hates Pat Buchenwald?

Does he that think that G-d loves Pat's views or neo-nazis?

So really I want to know what the little creep was thinking. I would like him to explain.

348 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:44:30am

re: #310 Honorary Yooper

We know a lot about European nationalism, but Buchanan was not brought up in Ireland. He was raised in the US, and Buchanan is a Jew-hating bigot because he is a bigot, not because of any underlying ethnic origins. To use ethnic origins to to excuse his bigotry.

No- I'm not trying to excuse it. I'm trying to understand it. You think these guys care about Eastern Europeans? No? Why? I'm trying to understand this hatred for Poland.

Some white nationalist types are very into the genealogy aspect to prove their whiteness or something. There are entire books on the purity of Norther Europeans over southern. There's some really creepy shit out there. They do think in terms of blood and soil. I wouldn't be surprised if pat's picked some up running with the crowds he does. Sorry I mentioned it.

349 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:45:09am

re: #344 buzzsawmonkey

I have a mental image of Pat Buchanan wearing a nice control-top girdle and stockings

Get help.

I'm saying this as a friend.

/

350 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:45:18am

re: #343 Dianna

I'm going to walk my dogs and lie down for a bit.

Stupid flu.

It's a good question whether my head hurts so bad from the flu, trying to read the screen, or bloody Pat Buchanan.

Take care of yourself!

351 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:45:37am

And my evil plan proceeds appace

352 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:45:48am

re: #330 garycooper

Wait for G-dot, instead.

putting the dash in Godot is pretty shitty too Gary.

What did you mean by your post? Stop being a coward and out with it.

353 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:46:08am

re: #347 LudwigVanQuixote

No, let's not make this about me.

Too late

How angry I get will depend on what you say.

354 Shug  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:46:31am

re: #342 Honorary Yooper

No, that guy got banned a few times thus far. As much as I may disagree with LVQ, he is not posting from a truck stop.

Because the blind taste taste says they are the same personality type.

355 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:46:37am

re: #353 sattv4u2

No, let's not make this about me.

Too late

How angry I get will depend on what you say.

Stay out of this.

What did he mean by the post?

356 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:46:57am

Hitler did want war. He understood war would give him the opportunity to push through his most radical schemes, including the Holocaust. He wanted short quick wars he could win, while intimidating France & Britain into passivity. He miscalculated.

357 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:47:00am

re: #340 EmmmieG

You know, I don't think Hitler wanted war.

I think he wanted other countries to passively hand over everything he & his cronies wanted, without fighting. War meant someone was fighting back.

Actually, I don't even believe that (while recognizing you were being sarcastic). His "Master Race" fantasy was that of CONQUEROR. There HAD to be war, for him.

358 BlueCanuck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:47:19am

re: #348 Sharmuta

The Celts are from India. :)

359 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:47:24am

re: #352 LudwigVanQuixote

putting the dash in Godot is pretty shitty too Gary.

What did you mean by your post? Stop being a coward and out with it.

Lud...What does Godot mean? Sorry..I haven't heard of that before.

360 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:47:32am

re: #344 buzzsawmonkey

Women's stockings are graded by "denier"--and, in consequence, whenever I see the word "denier," even when used in the term "Holocaust denier," it recalls that other use of the word for a fleeting second.

Recalling also that famous commercial of the 1960s in which football player Joe Namath posed in pantyhose, I have a mental image of Pat Buchanan wearing a nice control-top girdle and stockings--a blowsy McLaughlin-group travesty of Marlene Dietrich in The Blue Angel, or that drag character in Visconti's The Damned--saying something about how comfortable he is in his Holocaust deniers.

With all due respect, I think that comment is hosed.

361 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:47:40am

re: #348 Sharmuta


There's some really creepy shit out there. They do think in terms of blood and soil.

hmm... blood and soil... who was it who said things like that... Himmlan, Himmloch... Himmler... something like that...

362 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:47:46am

re: #358 BlueCanuck

The Celts are from India. :)

We're all from Africa.

363 garycooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:47:55am

re: #338 Coracle

There are many people of faith on this board. Yet you choose to single out LVQ to mock his.

Mock mine, then...I'm a lapsed Irish-Catholic, now an atheist. Go to town.

Do you follow Ludes around all day, jumping in whenever he needs backup? LOL.

364 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:47:55am

re: #355 LudwigVanQuixote

Stay out of this.

What did he mean by the post?

Let me consider that


,,,
ummm,,, NOPE!

365 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:48:04am

re: #340 EmmmieG

Hitler wanted to bluster his way into gaining back all the territories lost and then some. He nearly succeeded, but some things, like his racist* agenda, could not be addressed without going to war and backstabbing the Soviets, breaking the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact signed between the Soviets and the Nazis. It was their intention to carve up Europe among themselves, but Hitler knew that he couldn't fight a two-front war successfully, so he attempted to get first the West and then the Soviets to deal in exchange for giving the other up.

*Nazi propaganda lumped the Slavic peoples as just above Jews, and consigned them to nearly as brutal an end.

366 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:48:06am

re: #361 MikeAlv77

hmm... blood and soil... who was it who said things like that... Himmlan, Himmloch... Himmler... something like that...

Yeah. Funny I'd mention it, huh?

367 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:48:25am

re: #352 LudwigVanQuixote

putting the dash in Godot is pretty shitty too Gary.

What did you mean by your post? Stop being a coward and out with it.

Oh, Ludwig, you're being baited. Gaze, my friend.

And G-dot is kinda funny, when you consider that the super-pious deletion of the "o" in God is essentially silly, since "God" is not God's name, but the English word for god.

368 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:48:27am

re: #358 BlueCanuck

The Celts are from India. :)

Not the Boston Celtics!

369 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:48:43am

re: #356 Kenneth

re: #357 Occasional Reader

Ah, I see. He wanted an easy, quickly-won war.

(I have a list of men and women that bring me to my knees in gratitude and awe. Winston Churchill is high on that list.)

370 Land Shark  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:49:09am

Hitler wasn't so bad? I'd be shocked and horrified except it's from that brain dead idiot Buchanan again, it's the kind of stupid ignorant shit I've learned to expect from Herr Buchanan. Me thinks he has a serious case of Fuhrer envy, or at least he wishes he could've have been one of his minions. I'm sure he would have loved to have been his Minister of Propaganda, 'cause propaganda for Hitler is a cause dear to his heart. Can we call him "Little Goebbels" now? Man, what a tool!

What a total waste of space you are, Pat.

371 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:49:14am

re: #360 pre-Boomer Marine brat

With all due respect, I think that comment is hosed.

Darn it. You beat me to it.

372 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:49:29am
373 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:49:35am

re: #359 HoosierHoops

Lud...What does Godot mean? Sorry..I haven't heard of that before.

It's a reference to an existentialist play. Waiting for Godot.

Godot, is a metaphor for G-d in the play, but it is a little rude to go and hyphenate it as part of a snark.

So I am still waiting for what the little creep meant by his post.

374 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:49:48am

re: #362 Sharmuta

We're all from Africa.

And yet they kept turning me down for those "African-American" scholarships...

375 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:49:50am

re: #345 garycooper

It makes perfect sense. You said the Germans were more interested in killing Jews than supplying the Russian front. I know they were interested in both, but a lot more successful at one than the other. Nobody was stopping the concentration camp trains from running, like the Russians were destroying the German supply-lines.

Ripping up rails stops trains going in BOTH directions, so you're still not on-topic.

376 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:50:14am

re: #348 Sharmuta

Sometimes, there is no need to understand it. We know that Buchanan is bad news, and that he associates with these Eurofascists. We know Buchanan has been a bigot for quite some time. We also know that he takes up with like-minded people whenever he can. Knowing the motiviation is interesting, but not necessary in Buchanan's case. We know he is bad news, and that should be enough to know to stay away from him, condemn him, and combat his words.

377 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:50:37am

re: #365 lawhawk

Nazi propaganda lumped the Slavic peoples as just above Jews, and consigned them to nearly as brutal an end.

Indeed. You can read all about it in my book. (I am one of the translators.)

378 mfarmer1  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:51:06am

Every time Buchanan spews out this type of crap, I expect him to finally get shunned. Instead, he'll probably end up on Hannity's show being hailed as a great American. It's nauseating.

And to think that 50+ million people died because a few selfish people compromised of a population equaling Ocean City Md didn't want to return to to their rightful roots. Of course, German aggression in WWI had nothing to do with the situation, nah. Must be the Jews. Thanks for that clarification, Mr. Buchanan.

Expect Pat to get triple-booked in the coming weeks. He's gonna be everywhere. Ugh.

379 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:51:08am
380 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:51:29am

re: #359 HoosierHoops

Lud...What does Godot mean? Sorry..I haven't heard of that before.

It's a play, Waiting for Godot.

381 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:51:34am

re: #374 Occasional Reader

And yet they kept turning me down for those "African-American" scholarships...

We have a guy at work who was from South Africa. When he had to fill out something here, I told him to put african-american since he technically was... In fact, he was closer to being african than anyone else who would put that down...

382 Coracle  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:51:37am

re: #363 garycooper

Nah, I'm just impressed with how obsessive you've with trying to get someone's goat. You've been trying to taunt him with his statement of belief ever since you saw it. It's hard to avoid the smell.

383 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:51:46am

re: #359 HoosierHoops

Lud...What does Godot mean? Sorry..I haven't heard of that before.

Google "Waiting for Godot"

384 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:51:49am

re: #359 HoosierHoops

Lud...What does Godot mean? Sorry..I haven't heard of that before.

"Waiting for Godot" is a play.

385 Danny  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:52:05am

Looks like Real Clear Politics has yanked the article from their site. Link doesn't work.

386 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:52:08am

re: #377 Cato the Elder

Um... I hope you're not overly fond of your Net anonymity.

387 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:52:17am

re: #367 Cato the Elder

I know I have been baited, however, Nazis and Torah are two topics I never joke about.

The little coward knows he is over the line. That is why he is so reticent.

I want to hear his explanation of the remark.

Gary explain your remark. What exactly were you mocking?

388 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:52:23am

re: #358 BlueCanuck

I believe the Celts originated from central Europe, not India.

389 Buck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:52:26am

He has done this exact thing before. In fact in a May 11, 2005 column in The American Cause captioned "Was World War II Worth It?" he basically said the same thing.

Edward I. Koch had something to tell Pat back then.

Works today...

390 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:52:43am

re: #362 Sharmuta

We're all from Africa.

Yes, but I'm from NORTHERN Africa.

/nyah

/

391 Shug  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:52:58am

well now that I get the Godot joke, I think G-dot line is pretty funny

392 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:53:00am

Hoops, "Waiting for Godot" is a mens' cologne from Aramis.

393 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:53:17am

re: #392 Occasional Reader

Hoops, "Waiting for Godot" is a mens' cologne from Aramis.

Whoops, no, it's a play, apparently!

/

394 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:53:38am

re: #379 garycooper

I was thinking it would be fun to wind you up like a top, and watch you spin across the floor again. And I was right. Wheee-hoo, he's off again! Watch out for the flying degrees, they're heavy and really pack a wallop.

So you did that by insulting my religion and making a reference to the deaths of my family members.

You think that is funny?

I see that others do to.

Well at the very least, I know who the scum are on this board.

395 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:53:39am

re: #379 garycooper

I was thinking it would be fun to wind you up like a top, and watch you spin across the floor again. And I was right. Wheee-hoo, he's off again! Watch out for the flying degrees, they're heavy and really pack a wallop.

Top was exactly the mental image I had. It is kinda fun watching.
Nyuk, nyuk

396 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:53:40am

re: #386 Occasional Reader

The director of JW outed me some time ago. I don't care.

397 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:53:43am

re: #390 OldLineTexan

Yes, but I'm from NORTHERN Africa.

/nyah

/

Damn Yankee.

398 Silvergirl  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:53:46am

re: #386 Occasional Reader

Um... I hope you're not overly fond of your Net anonymity.

'zactly.

399 nordink  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:53:46am

I know I'm supposed to comment on the thread, not just spout off, so please excuse me while I vent...

This is so f***ing exasperating. It's clear that Buchanan is willfully distorting the facts (using Hitler's greatest, most consistent and most accurate critic, Winston Churchill, to support his articles ludicrous claims, for instance.) It's shameful.

I also don't think any analysis of World War II -- and its effect on the world -- is complete without an explicit mention of the Holocaust. But of course, no Hitler apologist would ever reference that.

I am a regular follower of Townhall's programs and websites (Prager and Hewitt, mostly.) I am going to email them and let them know that I will not part with one dollar to support them until they drop Buchanan. I won't go so far as to demand a renunciation of Buchanan -- I doubt it will ever happen -- but they can't continue to enable this repugnant, revisionist anti-Semite.

I am sickened and I am furious.

400 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:53:52am

re: #314 garycooper

Well, the Germans also had this little problem with Russian partisans ripping up train tracks, heating them and bending them into loops, and then ambushing repair-crews. But, it's true the murdering of Jews kept going right up until the end.

Not original with the Russian partisans.
These were originally referred to as "Sherman neckties".

401 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:54:15am

re: #376 Honorary Yooper

Sometimes, there is no need to understand it.

I have to disagree. Besides reading up on the form of government that was fascism, I've been trying to read up on their warped science- where they got these ideas about genetic superiority. It's disgustingly fascinating. I could email you some of the stuff I've collected if you'd like. I'm not so sure it should be linked openly. If crypto-fascists want to read it, they can find it on their own, I'm not helping them.

402 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:54:33am

re: #396 Cato the Elder

The director of JW outed me some time ago. I don't care.

Well, that was goddamn petty and ignoble of him.

403 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:54:58am

re: #390 OldLineTexan

LOL!

404 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:54:59am

re: #397 Occasional Reader

Damn Yankee.

Some Yankees are from the South. South Brooklyn, South Boston ...

405 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:55:34am

re: #379 garycooper

With all due respect, that motive rates a "GAZE".

/I suggest you think about it

406 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:55:37am

re: #387 LudwigVanQuixote

however, Nazis and Torah are two topics I never joke about.

But you need to realize that others do not share your restriction.

(E.g., Mel Brooks)

407 BlueCanuck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:55:56am

re: #388 Kenneth

True. I believe that there is some small evidence that there was a strong sanskrit influence in their early culture and music. Don't have a link for it off hand. Read it in a book that I thought would be new age view of druids. Was really a good history of celtic thought and history that had to be teased out from a lot of dreck.

408 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:56:03am

Why are the Jehovah's Witnesses after Cato?

/

409 Gus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:56:03am

re: #385 Danny

Looks like Real Clear Politics has yanked the article from their site. Link doesn't work.

Sure is. It's not even on the front page of RCP.

Good. Hope it stays gone.

410 Silvergirl  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:56:52am

re: #408 OldLineTexan

Why are the Jehovah's Witnesses after Cato?

/

That has me scratching my head too. :-)

411 garycooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:56:58am

re: #372 buzzsawmonkey

Again, you do not understand the difference between allocation and means.

As to your statement that "nobody was stopping the concentration camp trains from running," that is completely false. Trains to the camps did not run on dedicated lines; indeed, Auschwitz was chosen as a camp location precisely because it was a major rail interchange.

I knew someone who was not transhipped to Auschwitz from the slave-labor camp in which he was interned simply because Tito's partisans blew the tracks on the day he was scheduled for deportation.

Okay, you win. Kind of a small distinction you're making here, but if it's that important to you, to make you pull out the personal anecdote file, I'll take the "L."

412 Danny  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:57:00am

re: #409 Gus 802

Sure is. It's not even on the front page of RCP.

Good. Hope it stays gone.

The link still shows up on thier search engine, but it's the same one Charles posted (Not Found).

413 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:57:14am

re: #396 Cato the Elder

The director of JW outed me some time ago. I don't care.

What is JW?

414 mrbaracuda  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:57:30am

Good evening, Lizards!
Or should I say: Guten Abend, Leguane! :-D

Greetings from Germany. Now, where can I find this article? The link in the entry by Charles is dead and I am very, very lazy tonight. Help one German out Lizards, will ya?

415 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:57:32am

re: #387 LudwigVanQuixote

I know I have been baited, however, Nazis and Torah are two topics I never joke about.

The little coward knows he is over the line. That is why he is so reticent.

I want to hear his explanation of the remark.

Gary explain your remark. What exactly were you mocking?

I understand, Ludovico. I'm on your side.

But the little shit obviously isn't going to man up (he can't, he's net-neutered), so just pass it by.

Did you know that "Godot" is among other things an English-French pun for "godlet"? "Waiting for the Little God" would be one way to interpret it...

416 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:57:47am

re: #399 nordink

Really nice rant. +1.

/you should spout off more often, maybe

417 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:58:03am

re: #406 Occasional Reader

But you need to realize that others do not share your restriction.

(E.g., Mel Brooks)

Yes, but Mel had a different motive.

418 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:58:28am

re: #408 OldLineTexan

Why are the Jehovah's Witnesses after Cato?

/

They witnessed some of his posts!
//

419 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:58:34am

Why can't we just amputate Buchanan everywhere he is and insert Thomas Sowell instead?

420 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:58:48am

re: #408 OldLineTexan

Why are the Jehovah's Witnesses after Cato?

/

They wouldn't stop visiting, so the last time I came to the door nekkid. It put two of them in the psych ward.

421 jill e  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:59:00am

Hitler is a monster of wickedness, insatiable in his lust for blood and plunder. Not content with having all Europe under his heel, or else terrorised into various forms of abject submission, he must now carry his work of butchery and desolation among the vast multitudes of Russia and of Asia. The terrible military machine - which we and the rest of the civilised world so foolishly, so supinely, so insensately allowed the Nazi gangsters to build up year by year from almost nothing - cannot stand idle lest it rust or fall to pieces. ... So now this bloodthirsty guttersnipe must launch his mechanized armies upon new fields of slaughter, pillage and devastation.

—Winston Churchill, radio broadcast on the German invasion of Russia, June 22, 1941

422 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:59:06am

re: #413 LGoPs

What is JW?

Jihad Watch, a site run by Robert Spencer and Hugh Fitzgerald, and funded by David Horowitz.

423 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:59:28am

re: #415 Cato the Elder

I understand, Ludovico. I'm on your side.

But the little shit obviously isn't going to man up (he can't, he's net-neutered), so just pass it by.

Did you know that "Godot" is among other things an English-French pun for "godlet"? "Waiting for the Little God" would be one way to interpret it...

Oh yes. I am quite familiar with Beckett. It is a very interesting play, though I think the central metaphor is overwrought.

424 Gus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:59:28am

re: #412 Danny

The link still shows up on thier search engine, but it's the same one Charles posted (Not Found).

Unless they're shuffling things around. They should pull it since whatever Pat Buchanan typically belongs on Stormfront.

425 Mad Mullah  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 11:59:47am

I noticed a few comments talking about Tarantino.

I'm pretty sure that Buchanan or people like him aren't going to see Inglorious Basterds. The stormfront types aren't exactly praising it.

What's wrong a revenge-fantasy movie about Jews killing a bunch of Nazis? Sounds like good fun to me. I'm not sure if I'll see it in the theatres, but I'll definitely be seeing it when it comes out on blu-ray.

426 Buck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:00:11pm

Here is the key, as I see it... Pat goes on and on about how Hitler asked for Peace. Well so did Saddam, so does Hezbollah, so does Hamas and so does Iran... what they always mean is let me keep what I stole... and let's be friends UNTIL I have to steal again...

427 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:00:43pm

re: #420 Cato the Elder

They wouldn't stop visiting, so the last time I came to the door nekkid. It put two of them in the psych ward.

That's cruel, but fair.

I always offer to barter for The Watchtower. Really confuses them.

428 Lee Coller  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:00:44pm

re: #414 mrbaracuda

Good evening, Lizards!
Or should I say: Guten Abend, Leguane! :-D

Greetings from Germany. Now, where can I find this article? The link in the entry by Charles is dead and I am very, very lazy tonight. Help one German out Lizards, will ya?

Try here: [Link: townhall.com...]

429 Silvergirl  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:00:55pm

re: #406 Occasional Reader

But you need to realize that others do not share your restriction.

(E.g., Mel Brooks)

This may be true, but some hold certain topics to be personally off-limits for jokes, and because others do not doesn't have a lot to do with it. It's good to know this about LVQ, and appreciate getting to know what makes other Lizards tick.

430 garycooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:01:09pm

re: #382 Coracle

Nah, I'm just impressed with how obsessive you've with trying to get someone's goat. You've been trying to taunt him with his statement of belief ever since you saw it. It's hard to avoid the smell.

Is that why everytime I have an exchange with Dr. Ludes, you are carrying his considerable baggage?

Also, considering the amount of scorn Ludes heaps on Christians, particularly conservative Christians, I'm sure he's open to a little religous banter. No, you say? ;)

431 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:01:14pm

re: #423 LudwigVanQuixote

I have actually never seen "Waiting for Godot."

I have seen "Waiting for Guffman" (well, most of it.)

432 Land Shark  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:01:17pm

What really frosts my ass about Buchanan is that his nonsense is very easily debunked by anyone with some knowledge of the history of the Third Reich. Heck, all you have to do is read Mein Kampf, assuming you can get through all his mindless ramblings, where he clearly states what he had in mind for the future once he gained power. To bad more people back then didn't take him seriously, because it's all there in Mein Kampf.

433 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:01:19pm

re: #420 Cato the Elder

They wouldn't stop visiting, so the last time I came to the door nekkid. It put two of them in the psych ward.

Did you at least offer them a glass of whiskey and a Marlboro first?

434 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:01:27pm

re: #422 Honorary Yooper

Jihad Watch, a site run by Robert Spencer and Hugh Fitzgerald, and funded by David Horowitz.

Oh. Thanks. Not right to out him.

435 jill e  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:01:43pm

re: #417 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, but Mel had a different motive.

"Rhetoric does not get you anywhere, because Hitler and Mussolini are just as good at rhetoric. But if you can bring these people down with comedy, they stand no chance." —Mel Brooks

436 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:02:05pm
437 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:02:07pm

Another reason to study up on the warped fascist science is to better pick up their rhetoric. Especially in europe- they've developed code speech, so it can be difficult at times, from a casual reading, that there is nothing inherently wrong with an article, etc. Knowing how these people justify some of their bigotry is one way of spotting it when they're trying to keep it concealed.

438 Nadnerb  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:02:12pm

Please Pat, go away. Fuck off and go away. No one cares what you have to say except MSNBC because you fulfill all the lefty dreams of what a Conservative is. All your ideas are shit, just like the grey stuff 'twixt your ears.

439 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:02:27pm

re: #406 Occasional Reader

But you need to realize that others do not share your restriction.

(E.g., Mel Brooks)

Mocking nazis is one thing, Mel Brooks does it well, also Spike Jones and Bob Clampett.

People like Roseanne Barr do not understand the difference between "nazi jokes" and "dead jew jokes"

440 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:02:35pm

re: #423 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh yes. I am quite familiar with Beckett. It is a very interesting play, though I think the central metaphor is overwrought.

I am a huge fan of Beckett.

Among other things, he was an extremely kind man. And a soft touch for clochards.

One day a Paris bum approached him and and friend with a particularly circumstantial story. Beckett gave his usual generous donative.

His companion asked him why he didn't worry about falling for a story.

"I couldn't take the chance," said he.

441 Buck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:02:45pm

re: #425 Mad Mullah

I noticed a few comments talking about Tarantino.

I'm pretty sure that Buchanan or people like him aren't going to see Inglorious Basterds. The stormfront types aren't exactly praising it.

What's wrong a revenge-fantasy movie about Jews killing a bunch of Nazis? Sounds like good fun to me. I'm not sure if I'll see it in the theatres, but I'll definitely be seeing it when it comes out on blu-ray.

I saw it, and I admit I liked it. BUT here is the danger. For some it is a proof that Jews would do the shit Hamas and Hezbollah accuse them of. That Jews would, if given the chance, be a brutal, vengeful, terrorizing force.

Fact is we aren't. We didn't, and we wouldn't.

442 garycooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:03:03pm

re: #405 pre-Boomer Marine brat

With all due respect, that motive rates a "GAZE".

/I suggest you think about it

You handle your own, sir. Thanks!

Also, that GAZE-stuff was old in 2004. It doesn't work.

443 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:03:10pm

re: #433 Desert Dog

Did you at least offer them a glass of whiskey and a Marlboro first?

I pull out an old bong from my college days I keep around for just such an occasion. They appreciate the hospitality(they say), but never come in . . .

444 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:03:14pm

re: #411 garycooper

Okay, you win. Kind of a small distinction you're making here, but if it's that important to you, to make you pull out the personal anecdote file, I'll take the "L."

Gary, Buzzy lost people in that too. He has extensively studied the history. This is not a topic to try to demonstrate your learning on through pedantics and word games. That shows disrespect for the dead.

You would do very well to shut your hole now.

asshole.

445 BlueCanuck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:03:25pm

re: #433 Desert Dog

Did you at least offer them a glass of whiskey and a Marlboro first?

Go for the trifecta and offer them an Irish coffee. :)

446 Eowyn2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:03:44pm

re: #20 MikeAlv77

I guess Pat never read Mein Kampf where Hitler details what he was going to do. That Kristalnacht happened WAY before he invaded Poland.. Nah.. it was all America and Britain's fault.. yeah...

I don't think Pat is much into actual research.

447 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:03:59pm

OT, Just to simmer things down a little:

To all hetersexual males on this thread (and perhaps lesbians, too): View this and tell me that you wouldn't run off with the First Lady of France, if she sang this to you and then handed you an airline ticket.

448 Silvergirl  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:04:08pm

re: #421 jill e

I'm reading along thinking, wow, this jill e is good. Then I scroll and see Churchill's name.

You still get a ding.

449 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:04:27pm

re: #426 Buck

Here is the key, as I see it... Pat goes on and on about how Hitler asked for Peace. Well so did Saddam, so does Hezbollah, so does Hamas and so does Iran... what they always mean is let me keep what I stole... and let's be friends UNTIL I have to steal again...

Peace? They don't want peace; they want it all.

Well, their version of "peace" usually involves me and my fellow Jews either dead or as less than 2nd class. And too many people put "peace" first and don't care over whose dead bodies the peace comes, as long is it isn't theirs.

I can at least accept the minority of true pacifists who would rather die than fight. That is their right, but they can't tell me I have to die instead of fighting.

450 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:04:34pm

re: #443 Creeping Eruption

I pull out an old bong from my college days I keep around for just such an occasion. They appreciate the hospitality(they say), but never come in . . .

I usually show them the pentagram burnt into the floor of the front room and the alter to my Dark Lord...that keeps them away for months.

451 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:05:00pm
452 mrbaracuda  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:05:03pm

re: #428 Lee Coller

Danke sehr. /tips hat

453 Silvergirl  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:05:15pm

re: #431 EmmmieG

I have actually never seen "Waiting for Godot."

I have seen "Waiting for Guffman" (well, most of it.)

I have seen and recommend both. Guffman is funnier. You need to finish it.

454 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:05:15pm

re: #425 Mad Mullah

I noticed a few comments talking about Tarantino.

I'm pretty sure that Buchanan or people like him aren't going to see Inglorious Basterds. The stormfront types aren't exactly praising it.

What's wrong a revenge-fantasy movie about Jews killing a bunch of Nazis? Sounds like good fun to me. I'm not sure if I'll see it in the theatres, but I'll definitely be seeing it when it comes out on blu-ray.

I have been a big fan of Tarantino, but I have noticed that all of his movies tend to have some Jewish-related commentary, not a flattering one at that. Whether it was in Reservoir Dogs (talking about Jewing-out on paying tips to waitresses), or the Crazy 88s (Kill Bill), there's an undercurrent that has been increasingly unsettled for myself.

While the Nazis remain the last group that seemingly can be squashed by enterprising means (Islamic terrorists are still off limits other than True Lies) as bad guys, something suggests that there are additional layers to Inglorious Basterds that plays to the Jews as new Nazis meme. It would be nice if someone in the media attempted to question QT over this, but I doubt anyone cared enough to notice.

455 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:05:27pm

Pat Buchanan ...

Spawned by satan
===
trained by "Father" charles coughlin
===
Inspired by adolf hitler
===
Aided and abetted by MSNBC and Sean Hannity (who really should know better)
===
He'a a nazi to the core and a disgrace to this country.

456 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:05:37pm

re: #447 Occasional Reader

OT, Just to simmer things down a little:

To all hetersexual males on this thread (and perhaps lesbians, too): View this and tell me that you wouldn't run off with the First Lady of France, if she sang this to you and then handed you an airline ticket.

Oui, oui, oui...(not wee-wee-ed)

457 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:05:38pm

re: #447 Occasional Reader

OT, Just to simmer things down a little:

To all hetersexual males on this thread (and perhaps lesbians, too): View this and tell me that you wouldn't run off with the First Lady of France, if she sang this to you and then handed you an airline ticket.

I'd pay for my own ticket. To anywhere.

458 calcajun  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:06:00pm

re: #267 zombie

perfectionist.

459 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:06:21pm

re: #439 Alouette

People like Roseanne Barr do not understand the difference between "nazi jokes" and "dead jew jokes"

I take it there's yet another charming story about the delightful Mme. Barr that I haven't heard yet.

/spit

460 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:06:30pm

re: #433 Desert Dog

Did you at least offer them a glass of whiskey and a Marlboro first?

When Jw's used to come to our Door they would say Hi we are Jehovah Witnesses..
My Dad would say..Sorry I didn't see the accident..
I would just shake my head...
This is America and if we can't respect different faiths then what have we become?

461 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:06:34pm

re: #430 garycooper

Is that why everytime I have an exchange with Dr. Ludes, you are carrying his considerable baggage?

Also, considering the amount of scorn Ludes heaps on Christians, particularly conservative Christians, I'm sure he's open to a little religous banter. No, you say? ;)

A mischaracterization of my words to say the least. If you consider people who murder physicians or see Christianity as an expression of white rights to be Christian, then you clearly don't know the meaning of the word.

But then again there are many words you don;t know the meanings of.

As to religious discussion, Gary, you yourself, said you were trying to piss me off by insulting my religion and some very grim history.

That wouldn't fly on a play ground where little children are expected to have better manners. It does not fly here.

462 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:06:38pm
463 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:07:00pm

re: #447 Occasional Reader

Tempting, but the last time I chased a woman I caught her.

/not risking THAT again

464 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:07:18pm

re: #450 Desert Dog

I usually show them the pentagram burnt into the floor of the front room and the alter to my Dark Lord...that keeps them away for months.

Do you show them your Ring (one of the Nine), as well, oh Nazgul?

465 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:07:43pm

I hate to tell Stinky, but posting is once again pretty tortuous using IE7. Control buttons jumping around like crazy if I try to bold, quote, link, etc. Text types in sort of jerkily, too.

466 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:07:44pm

re: #407 BlueCanuck

The Celtic language was from the indo-european group, so sanskrit must be way back there somewhere. But by the time they were a distinct ethnic group, they were in central Europe. Fascinating people!

467 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:07:51pm

re: #447 Occasional Reader

I'm just waiting for my Gal... Gadot.

468 Red Lion  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:07:56pm

I just hit the link, and it's broken. Is somebody finally ashamed of this troglodyte?

469 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:08:08pm

re: #459 Occasional Reader

I take it there's yet another charming story about the delightful Mme. Barr that I haven't heard yet.

/spit

Just to get you up to speed.

470 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:08:11pm

re: #464 Kosh's Shadow

Do you show them your Ring (one of the Nine), as well, oh Nazgul?

Only if they are persistant

471 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:08:19pm

re: #460 HoosierHoops

When Jw's used to come to our Door they would say Hi we are Jehovah Witnesses..
My Dad would say..Sorry I didn't see the accident..
I would just shake my head...
This is America and if we can't respect different faiths then what have we become?

Except for those dangerous JESUS FREAKS...!
/

472 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:08:30pm

I've been GAZED by Garycooper!

Someone by me a cigar.

Later...

473 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:08:33pm

re: #461 LudwigVanQuixote

That wouldn't fly on a play ground where little children are expected to have better manners

But you can drop F-Bombs at will as a matter of civil discussion !

mmmkkkaaayyy!!

474 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:08:34pm
475 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:08:39pm

re: #435 jill e

"Rhetoric does not get you anywhere, because Hitler and Mussolini are just as good at rhetoric. But if you can bring these people down with comedy, they stand no chance." —Mel Brooks

The best way to fight dictators is to laugh at them.

476 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:08:58pm

re: #436 buzzsawmonkey

No. The distinction between how resources were intentionally allocated and whether, once allocated, they could be used as intended is not small.

Giving allocation priority to scarce rail stock for the purpose of shipping civilian populations to their death over supplying one's own troops is a major distinction.

I agree. It is a military axiom that amateurs study tactics. Professional soldiers study Logistics. Logistics, particularly the movement of supplies by train over vast distances were the arteries that kept the German war machine moving. Any decisions to limit those trains showed where the real prioirties lay.

477 Spenser (with an S)  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:08:58pm

re: #439 Alouette

"Don't be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Nazi Party!"

478 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:09:00pm

re: #439 Alouette

People like Roseanne Barr do not understand the difference between "nazi jokes" and "dead jew jokes"

Here's the clip - Roseanne Barr

Youtube Video
479 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:09:09pm

re: #473 sattv4u2

That wouldn't fly on a play ground where little children are expected to have better manners

But you can drop F-Bombs at will as a matter of civil discussion !

mmmkkkaaayyy!!

Stay out of this.

480 Gus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:09:17pm

re: #472 Cato the Elder

I've been GAZED by Garycooper!

Someone by buy me a cigar.

Later...

;)

481 Buck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:09:24pm

re: #449 Kosh's Shadow

I don't really think these pacifist think that way when it comes to Jews dying.

My experience is that the sight of Jews defending themselves is so horrible, that they cannot accept it.

The pacifist does not protest any other country defending itself. Just Israel (and sometimes USA).

There is not one pacifist flying to Pakistan to be a human shield for the Taliban.

482 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:09:25pm

re: #469 Alouette

Just to get you up to speed.

Ick

483 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:09:30pm

re: #7 sffilk

Actually, he's a Jew-hater. The term "anti-Semite" was created in the 19th century to make hatred of the Jews seem scientifically-based. The proper term is judenhasse. My source for this is Telushkin's Jewish Literacy.

I will accept either term, personally. Despite the folks who whine that Arabs can't be anti-Semites.

484 Danny  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:09:36pm

re: #468 Red Lion

I just hit the link, and it's broken. Is somebody finally ashamed of this troglodyte?

Hopefully.

485 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:09:37pm

re: #472 Cato the Elder

I've been GAZED by Garycooper!

Someone by me a cigar.

Later...

If Bill Clinton hands you a cigar, be careful. You don't know where it has been.

486 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:09:41pm

re: #475 LudwigVanQuixote

The best way to fight dictators is to laugh at them.

No... the best way to fight dictators is to find them and kill them...

but I get your point...

laugh after you kill them...

487 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:09:42pm

re: #473 sattv4u2

That wouldn't fly on a play ground where little children are expected to have better manners

But you can drop F-Bombs at will as a matter of civil discussion !

mmmkkkaaayyy!!

I leave two hours ago, and Ludwig is still ranting, I return and fine him still trying to sort out those social skills.

488 mrbaracuda  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:09:49pm

What a douchebag Buchanan. And what douchebags the outlets are who carry the douchebag. Oh, what douchebaggery! He sounds like a fucking truther JAQing off.

489 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:09:53pm

re: #461 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #473 sattv4u2

That wouldn't fly on a play ground where little children are expected to have better manners

But you can drop F-Bombs at will as a matter of civil discussion !

mmmkkkaaayyy!!

Oh , DAMN ME ,,, I was supposed to "stay out of it" !!

490 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:10:02pm

re: #474 buzzsawmonkey

"Will no-one rid me of this meddlesome playwright?"

/Oops, wrong Beckett.

The Gestapo were this close to nabbing him once or twice while he worked for the Résistance.

491 Silvergirl  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:10:02pm

re: #472 Cato the Elder

I've been GAZED by Garycooper!

Someone by me a cigar.

Later...

We're going to get you for that by mistake when you get back.

492 Summer Seale  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:10:03pm

I get a 404 error now from the site. They appear to have removed it or something.

493 mrbaracuda  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:10:51pm

re: #492 Summer

Go here!

494 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:11:01pm

re: #479 LudwigVanQuixote

Stay out of this.

Let me consider that again !!

ummm

Still NO ,,, sorry!

495 Eowyn2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:11:12pm

re: #347 LudwigVanQuixote

No, let's not make this about me.

I want to know what he meant by that.

Was he perhaps mocking the idea, a core principle of the Jewish faith, that Moses actually did take dictation from G-d, or was he perhaps mocking the notion of Amalek?

Also, out of context what he is quoting. I had answered a question about biblical criticism and said that there are many who do take all sorts of views about the authorship of the Torah, but it was a core principle of the faith that Moses took dictation.

Was he just snarking out of the blue in an attempt to piss people off?

And what about the G-d hates Pat Buchenwald?

Does he that think that G-d loves Pat's views or neo-nazis?

So really I want to know what the little creep was thinking. I would like him to explain.

all we really know is that G-d did NOT call Pat home 12(?) years ago like Pat promised if the 700 club did not raise enough money. His watchers did, however, send lots of suitcases.

496 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:11:13pm

re: #489 sattv4u2

re: #473 sattv4u2

Oh , DAMN ME ,,, I was supposed to "stay out of it" !!

Are you scared now?

497 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:11:36pm

re: #469 Alouette

Just to get you up to speed.

What a dismally stupid, profoundly repellent human being.

(And I'm being generous with that noun.)

498 Summer Seale  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:12:05pm

re: #493 mrbaracuda

Thanks. =) I was gonna look into it but I'm making lunch atm.

499 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:12:06pm

re: #34 MikeAlv77

I remember the quote from a german army private I saw on TV. He saw one of the children in the camps and said if his country was responsible for even one child (or person) being treated like that, then we (Germany) are wrong and should be defeated.

What must it have been like to be a good person trapped in that nightmare.

500 Gus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:12:44pm

Charles, the link to Buchanan's tripe at Real Clear Politics is broken. I think RCP pulled it. Reporting this message to let you know.

501 mrbaracuda  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:12:47pm

re: #498 Summer

Oh what are you making? I am always looking for new recipes to fill mein tummy, ja! :-D

502 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:12:58pm

re: #469 Alouette

Just to get you up to speed.

I think I'll put this on a permanent macro:

Horrid lady, we implore
Go away, and sin no more
And if that effort be too great
Go away at any rate

503 harpsicon  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:13:04pm

re: #202 Lee Coller

"W" was a big government republican. How can you say that was to the right of Reagan?

She was quoting Ludwig, and asking how he could possibly think that W was "way far to the right of Reagan".

504 brazilofmux  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:13:17pm

I'll echo the sentiments already covered in this thead:

I don't know if Pat started as an isolationist and ended up as a Jew-hater, or started as a Jew-hater and ended up as an isolationist, but he is both.

I agree that the networks keep him on as representative of the left. I remember once when he was on McLaughlin's show, after the usual banter, they let Pat get into his rabid pitch while the lights dimmed and everyone else walked off the stage. The message was that he stood alone.

He can deliver a point well, and he has no fear about speaking his mind, but his fear of everything 'other' clouds his judgment on most issues. Be wary of Pat.

505 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:13:25pm

re: #494 sattv4u2

Let me consider that again !!

ummm

Still NO ,,, sorry!

And it doesn't matter to you that he was out and out insulting Torah and making light of Pat just to piss me of? You really want a piece of this too.

Fine.

Why don't you explain how what he said was appropriate?

I am awaiting your explanation.

506 Eowyn2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:13:29pm

re: #449 Kosh's Shadow

Peace? They don't want peace; they want it all.

Well, their version of "peace" usually involves me and my fellow Jews either dead or as Slaves until they kill us. And too many people put "peace" first and don't care over whose dead bodies the peace comes, as long is it isn't theirs.

I can at least accept the minority of true pacifists who would rather die than fight. That is their right, but they can't tell me I have to die instead of fighting.

ftfy

507 Coracle  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:13:35pm

re: #430 garycooper

Is that why everytime I have an exchange with Dr. Ludes, you are carrying his considerable baggage?


I suppose one could have come to that conclusion if it were remotely true. Veracity seems to handicap your opinions only rarely, however.

Also, considering the amount of scorn Ludes heaps on Christians, particularly conservative Christians, I'm sure he's open to a little religous banter. No, you say? ;)


I haven't seen where he has openly mocked any other member here for their expressions of faith. Which is what you are doing quite specifically. That's not religious banter. That's being a dick.

508 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:13:49pm

re: #496 Walter L. Newton

Are you scared now?

Terrified. Have you ever been attacked by an blog black belt? (say THAT 3 times fast!)

509 brazilofmux  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:14:24pm

re: #504 brazilofmux

Correction: I agree that the networks keep him on as representative of the right.

Sorry.

510 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:14:38pm

re: #466 Kenneth

The Celtic language was from the indo-european group, so sanskrit must be way back there somewhere. But by the time they were a distinct ethnic group, they were in central Europe. Fascinating people!

All European languages are in the Indo-European group except for Basque and i think Finnish. That doesn't mean the people came from India. More than likely they all spoke a single language around the Black Sea area 70000-ish years ago and some migrated south east, others migrated west into Europe.

511 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:14:45pm

re: #503 harpsicon

She was quoting Ludwig, and asking how he could possibly think that W was "way far to the right of Reagan".

Maybe by right he meant Religious Right?

512 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:14:59pm

re: #505 LudwigVanQuixote

And it doesn't matter to you that he was out and out insulting Torah and making light of Pat just to piss me of? You really want a piece of this too.

Fine.

Why don't you explain how what he said was appropriate?

I am awaiting your explanation.


You show me where I stated what he said was "fine" then I'll answer!

513 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:15:05pm

re: #481 Buck

I don't really think these pacifist think that way when it comes to Jews dying.

My experience is that the sight of Jews defending themselves is so horrible, that they cannot accept it.

The pacifist does not protest any other country defending itself. Just Israel (and sometimes USA).

There is not one pacifist flying to Pakistan to be a human shield for the Taliban.

Pacifists went to Iraq to be human shields for Saddam.

514 Summer Seale  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:15:14pm

re: #501 mrbaracuda

Gnocchi with a puttanesca sauce. =)

515 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:15:27pm
516 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:15:44pm

re: #496 Walter L. Newton

Are you scared now?

Walter, scroll up and see what this is about.

I may really hate a lot of the things you say, but you are not the sort of a jerk to who would want to be in on this one.

We can dance on other topics. I'll still be here. But I honestly don't think you realize what sort crap got flung and why.

517 mrbaracuda  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:15:48pm

re: #514 Summer

Ooooh, puttanesca is nice. Fresh basil I hope! :-)
Have a good one.

518 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:16:01pm

re: #514 Summer

Gnocchi with a puttanesca sauce. =)

What time should we be over... I'll bring the wine..

519 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:16:11pm

re: #53 Cato the Elder

Picked a nice day for it, you did, Bat Puchanan. September 1: Does that ring any bells?

Rabbi Leo Baeck landed in London with a group of Kindertransport children, late on Sept. 1, 1939. A representative of the London Jewish community ran to meet him, and said, "It's happening, Dr. Baeck, Hitler has invaded Poland. They're closing the borders. Thank God you're here."

Baeck turned and walked toward the airport building. "I have to get on the first plane back to Germany," he said.

"Dr. Baeck, you don't understand, you won't be able to get back out."

"If I stay, I won't be able to get back in," Baeck said. "The Jews of Germany need me now."

And he went back.

520 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:16:25pm
521 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:17:04pm

OT, but interesting...

The Death Spiral of the Islamic Republic

In the middle of the night, at 1:30 in the morning of Friday, August 14th, there was a large explosion at the monster petrochemical facility of the Iranian Pars Petrochemical Company in Bandar Assaluyeh. It is the biggest such plant in Iran, and the second largest in the whole Middle East (second only to one in Saudi Arabia).

The explosion, which took place in pipes carrying Liquid Petroleum Gas (which is mostly propane), caused fires throughout the facility. It took at least three hours before the fires were brought under control. At least two persons died (fortunately, at that hour personnel was at a minimum) and at least 30% of the plant was completely destroyed. Pars was forced to shut down the entire facility. Early estimates predicted it would remain closed for a month or two, and as of this writing it is still shut down.

The incident was almost certainly an act of sabotage by the regime’s enemies, and the whole story has been spiked. But the effects can be seen as far away as Tehran. Due to the chronic shortage of gasoline, many of the city’s 3500 buses and thousands of taxis had been converted to run on LPG. They were grounded after the attack on Pars, amounting to almost all of the two thousand LPG-run buses and, at a minimum, hundreds of taxis.

Very interesting.

522 Summer Seale  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:17:20pm

re: #518 MikeAlv77

I'm about to eat so imma bbl. =)

523 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:17:53pm

re: #512 sattv4u2

You show me where I stated what he said was "fine" then I'll answer!

If you are backing him up on this, you are supporting him. It is pretty simple.

So, I advise, that like Walter, we dance on different topics, and that you stay out of this.

It is one thing to quip on boards, it is another to cross these lines.

524 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:18:00pm

re: #519 SanFranciscoZionist

Rabbi Leo Baeck landed in London with a group of Kindertransport children, late on Sept. 1, 1939. A representative of the London Jewish community ran to meet him, and said, "It's happening, Dr. Baeck, Hitler has invaded Poland. They're closing the borders. Thank God you're here."

Baeck turned and walked toward the airport building. "I have to get on the first plane back to Germany," he said.

"Dr. Baeck, you don't understand, you won't be able to get back out."

"If I stay, I won't be able to get back in," Baeck said. "The Jews of Germany need me now."

And he went back.

I respect that. What that must have taken to know you are going to your death yet your faith and need to help your feloow man goes beyond it. I see Islamic terrorists flying planes into buildings, then you read this. There is hope for mankind. May God grant him peace.

525 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:18:14pm

re: #521 Kenneth

OT, but interesting...

The Death Spiral of the Islamic Republic

Very interesting.

I hope it's true...seeing the mullahs fade away would make me happy.

526 Areozol  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:18:27pm

Dear Mr. Buchanan.

Please, stop this nonsense.

And now something completely different: that anti-vaccine blogger, that I mentioned in the last Open Thread is now going crazier; he copy-pastes links to further more "evidences" of conspiracy, juxtaposing them with links to freepatentsonline.com, where anti-pregnancy vaccines are patented, meanwhile ranting about vaccines causing diabetes...

He really believes that WHO is planning genocide...

527 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:18:39pm

re: #510 ArchangelMichael

Thanks. linguistic history is a fascinating subject, (about which I know very little)

528 snowcrash  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:18:41pm

Could someone involved tell Lud to stop. I am starting to cringe.

529 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:18:43pm

re: #519 SanFranciscoZionist

Wow..Courage and morals in the face of Danger...
Did the Rabbi make it?

530 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:19:04pm

Where is Gary anyway?

Speak up for yourself. Can you explain how your remarks were appropriate not that you have stated your aims?

531 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:19:07pm

re: #474 buzzsawmonkey

"Will no-one rid me of this meddlesome playwright?"

/Oops, wrong Beckett.

Why don't you just Canter right out of here, lest we Bury you?

532 ernieg  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:19:28pm

re: #445 BlueCanuck

Go for the trifecta and offer them an Irish coffee. :)

The perfect food. It has all four of the major food groups: sugar, caffeine, alcohol and butterfat.

533 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:19:44pm

re: #531 Occasional Reader

Why don't you just Canter right out of here, lest we Bury you?

With your tale between your legs?

534 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:19:48pm

re: #521 Kenneth

OT, but interesting...

The Death Spiral of the Islamic Republic

Very interesting.

Heh ... I wonder who owns Pars Petrochem.
Wouldn't happen to be the IRGC by any chance, would it?

535 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:19:51pm

re: #520 buzzsawmonkey

I don't know if that's original with you or not, but it's a very nice little quatrain.

Not original, in fact it was made up for Princess Caroline* anonymously, and the original word is "Gracious," not "horrid," but I really couldn't use gracious for her.

*Not the daughter of Princess Grace. The wife of the Prince Regent.

536 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:19:51pm
537 garycooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:20:13pm

re: #444 LudwigVanQuixote

Gary, Buzzy lost people in that too. He has extensively studied the history. This is not a topic to try to demonstrate your learning on through pedantics and word games. That shows disrespect for the dead.

You would do very well to shut your hole now.

asshole.


Spin, boy, spin! You're more fun than a clown on fire.

Now, how about that dictation-thing, again...it's an absurd impossibility, for a host of reasons. There were a number of different authors of the Torah, and real Biblical scholars (unfettered by matters of faith and dogma) have identifed their different styles and probable dates of editorship. Not to mention, a whole bunch of contradictions, doublets (where the same story is told twice, in slightly-different forms), and various different names for God being used. It's not a matter for serious people to debate. Moses did not write it, unless he was affected by multiple-personality disorder.


/stand back, it's gonna blow!

538 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:20:16pm

re: #529 HoosierHoops

Wow..Courage and morals in the face of Danger...
Did the Rabbi make it?

He survived the war and passed away in 1956.

539 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:20:37pm

re: #507 Coracle

I haven't seen where he has openly mocked any other member here for their expressions of faith. Which is what you are doing quite specifically. That's not religious banter. That's being a dick.

"And like I was saying, the GOP is mainstreaming a convergence of the Jesus Freaks with the more secular right wing whackos."

A nice little derogative remark about believer in Christ and lumping them in with right-wing whacko's.

You want more?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

540 DaddyG  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:20:53pm

Calling the bottom 10 comments in my best track announcer voice...

DRcordell and AustinBlue are neck and neck for the lead but LudwigVan Quixote is pulling up along the fence.

541 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:20:55pm

re: #528 snowcrash

Could someone involved tell Lud to stop. I am starting to cringe.

Argument Clinic

Youtube Video
542 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:21:30pm

re: #537 garycooper

I try to stay out of these things, but this flame war bullshit is really lame. Could you please just stop?

543 Spenser (with an S)  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:21:36pm

re: #531 Occasional Reader


Why don't you just Canter right out of here, lest we Bury you?

Albee right back when I think of some famous playwrights.

544 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:21:39pm

re: #507 Coracle

I haven't seen where he has openly mocked any other member here for their expressions of faith. Which is what you are doing quite specifically. That's not religious banter. That's being a dick.

And while we are at it, it was a statement of simple fact. Jews really do Believe that Moses took dictation from G-d to write the Torah.

It is the same type of statement as saying that Christians believe in the resurrection of Christ.

545 SteveC  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:21:48pm

re: #526 Areozol

He really believes that WHO is planning genocide...

Not to worry. We just signed WHO to a contract extension; he's going to be playing first base for us for a long time.

WHO: "I love this city and this team, and I hope to play here my entire career."

546 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:21:59pm

re: #521 Kenneth

OT, but interesting...

The Death Spiral of the Islamic Republic

Very interesting.

Maybe this explains why their rate of uranium enrichment has declined, whether, sabotage or lack of power.

And the UN will still have the tyrant Ahmadinejad give a speech there.
(tyrant in its original meaning)

547 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:22:04pm

(cont'd)

Supreme Leader Khamenei has received secret messages from Grand Ayatollah Sistani in Najaf, Iraq, criticizing the bloodthirsty behavior of Khamenei’s people. Sistani has apparently echoed the statement earlier this week from Grand Ayatollah Montazeri that the regime is neither “Islamic” nor “a Republic,” but a tyranny.

Among Shia, Sistani is the most respected Shia cleric in the world. Iraqi democracy is now undermining Iranian theocracy.

548 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:22:28pm

re: #537 garycooper

Spin, boy, spin! You're more fun than a clown on fire.

Now, how about that dictation-thing, again...it's an absurd impossibility, for a host of reasons. There were a number of different authors of the Torah, and real Biblical scholars (unfettered by matters of faith and dogma) have identifed their different styles and probable dates of editorship. Not to mention, a whole bunch of contradictions, doublets (where the same story is told twice, in slightly-different forms), and various different names for God being used. It's not a matter for serious people to debate. Moses did not write it, unless he was affected by multiple-personality disorder.

/stand back, it's gonna blow!

We have a tradition of masoretic exegesis that goes back millennia. The alleged contradictions, different names, and other "errors" you mention were not discovered by atheists in the 19th century.

549 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:22:34pm

re: #537 garycooper

Spin, boy, spin! You're more fun than a clown on fire.

[...]

/stand back, it's gonna blow!

You may yet be surprised at which way it blows, troll.

550 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:22:37pm

re: #533 Creeping Eruption

With your tale between your legs?

Gee, now we can take our Chaucer pun-threads to follow!

551 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:22:45pm

re: #523 LudwigVanQuixote

If you are backing him up on this, you are supporting him. It is pretty simple.
TRANSLATION,, I can't show you where you agreed with him
So, I advise, that like Walter, we dance on different topics, and that you stay out of this.

Asked and answered twice already ,,, 3rd times a charm ,, NOPE !

It is one thing to quip on boards, it is another to cross these lines.

SilverGirl said it best. It's not that "someone" got you mad, its that YOU got mad at someone

Thats a YOU problem ,,, not an US problem

552 Coracle  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:23:08pm

re: #539 Walter L. Newton

"And like I was saying, the GOP is mainstreaming a convergence of the Jesus Freaks with the more secular right wing whackos."

A nice little derogative remark about believer in Christ and lumping them in with right-wing whacko's.

You want more?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Was he calling a specific person here a Jesus Freak or a right wing whacko? Come back when relevant.

553 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:23:09pm

re: #544 LudwigVanQuixote

And while we are at it, it was a statement of simple fact. Jews really do Believe that Moses took dictation from G-d to write the Torah.

It is the same type of statement as saying that Christians believe in the resurrection of Christ.

Right. Of course, both being unproven myths.

554 Spenser (with an S)  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:23:38pm

re: #539 Walter L. Newton

Yes, I didn't pick LVQ as the religiously sensitive type, either.

555 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:23:59pm

re: #540 DaddyG

Calling the bottom 10 comments in my best track announcer voice...

DRcordell and AustinBlue are neck and neck for the lead but LudwigVan Quixote is pulling up along the fence.

Thanks for the heads up, I'm going to upding Ludwig.

556 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:24:05pm

re: #537 garycooper

GAZE

557 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:24:07pm

re: #540 DaddyG

Calling the bottom 10 comments in my best track announcer voice...

DRcordell and AustinBlue are neck and neck for the lead but LudwigVan Quixote is pulling up along the fence.

I thought I smelled singed urine.

558 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:24:14pm

Pat Buchanan is a Wedgie.

559 snowcrash  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:24:19pm

re: #537 garycooper
Hasn't this gotten old yet? Be the better man and quit. The stick may swing soon.

560 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:24:34pm

re: #547 Kenneth

Iraqi democracy is now undermining Iranian theocracy.

It's Bush's Fault!

Wait... erm...

561 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:24:47pm

re: #534 pre-Boomer Marine brat

That would be my guess. What a shame.

562 jcm  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:24:49pm

re: #534 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Heh ... I wonder who owns Pars Petrochem.
Wouldn't happen to be the IRGC by any chance, would it?

IIRC, Ministry of Petroleum controls Pars, and IRGC runs the Min Petro.

563 Coracle  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:25:04pm

re: #544 LudwigVanQuixote

And while we are at it, it was a statement of simple fact. Jews really do Believe that Moses took dictation from G-d to write the Torah.

Heh. Not us heretical secular Jews. But yes, that's pretty much a core belief of the faithful Jew.

564 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:25:40pm

re: #559 snowcrash

Hasn't this gotten old yet? Be the better man and quit. The stick may swing soon.

He has a history of petty name calling.

565 Yashmak  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:25:48pm

What a fool Buchanan is.

Why did Hitler start a war without a surface fleet? Uh, he had one. One large enough to keep a substantial portion of the British fleet at home, out of fear that the Germans would sally forth with their pocket battleships and heavy cruisers.

Why didn't Hitler build strategic bombers? He and his top brass were convinced that they were unnecessary, and that bombers needed precision dive bombing to be effective. Additionally, his high command did not forsee the necessity of bombing the armaments factories in the Urals, once Germany engaged Russia in combat. This is covered in great detail in the fantastic and authoratative source on the subject; The Luftwaffe War Diaries

Why did he let the British go at Dunkirk? He still did not believe war was inevitable with, nor did he WANT war with Great Britain, a nation he saw as a kindred spirit. There is strong evidence that he believed that crushing the Brits at Dunkirk would so harden British opinion that he would no longer be able to persuade the British to seek peace. It was an awful misreading of the British mind-set, even though the Brits had doubts about their ability to prosecute a war against Germany on their own at that time. Additionally, peace with the British would have freed up substantial military resources for the effort against Russia, which was already in the planning stages.

Apparently Buchanan has never actually read any military history books about the period.

566 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:25:52pm
567 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:25:56pm

re: #547 Kenneth

WoooHAH!
THANK YOU for that, Kenneth!

568 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:26:58pm

So we have a proud, self-admitted, wind-'em-up-and-watch-their-heads-explode troll on a Bat Puchanan thread.

How...um...predictable?

Garycooper, you're fly is open.

569 garycooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:26:59pm

re: #539 Walter L. Newton

"And like I was saying, the GOP is mainstreaming a convergence of the Jesus Freaks with the more secular right wing whackos."

A nice little derogative remark about believer in Christ and lumping them in with right-wing whacko's.

You want more?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I knew I wasn't imagining things...

570 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:27:40pm

re: #544 LudwigVanQuixote

Beliefs and evidence are sometimes in contradiction to each other (YECs being a major case in point).

Wiki has some interesting articles regarding the authorship of the five books of Moses.

Mosaic Authorship
Documentary Hypothesis

571 DaddyG  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:27:41pm

re: #565 Yashmak We're having a pissing contest here. What do you think you are doing by making an on topic post? //

572 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:27:47pm

re: #543 Spenser (with an S)

Albee right back when I think of some famous playwrights.

Oh, let's just pull out all the stoppards, shall we?

573 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:28:11pm

re: #539 Walter L. Newton

"And like I was saying, the GOP is mainstreaming a convergence of the Jesus Freaks with the more secular right wing whackos."

A nice little derogative remark about believer in Christ and lumping them in with right-wing whacko's.

You want more?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Quote the whole thing Walter. Don't try to slander me.

Here is what I wrote again. Do stop being so contemptible a liar.

I have nothing but respect for Christians.

Now as to the Jesus freaks (which is a purposefully pejorative label that I use to distinguish them from the kind, and decent folks known as Christians) and the Paulinas and the nirthers and the deathers and the gun toting folks, the moronic convergence is all based on fear of losing power and position.

Please let me define Jesus Freak so that my real points do not get lost in quibbling over that phrase. Jesus Freaks are your anti-evolution, think it is ok to bomb abortion clinics, think that gay marriage is a bigger threat to marriage than heterosexual divorce rates, love the death penalty types.
They are strongly correlated with notions of white supremacy, but there is an overlap there, rather than a definition. Also, to prevent useless quibbling about the phrase Jesus freak, there are also psycho-Orthodox Jews and there are also Jihadis.

I then went on to say,

As to the term Jesus freak, let's just speak plainly.

While not a Christian, myself, I have great respect for Christianity and I have read the NT and Augustine and Aquinas amongst many others.

I can not speak with authority about this, but I get the very strong impression that Jesus, was very into non-violence and forgiveness. He was also very into acting with conscience and thoughtfulness. He was very, very into not abusing power.

Therefore any "Christian" who does not support such notions is not a Christian, but rather a fanatic who freakishly perverts the teachings of Christ to justify their own base fears and violent urges.

I went on to compare this to "the perversion of Torah" that is Naturei Carta.

I refuse to be slandered. I was bashing no Christian.

Walter, you are a contemptible liar. You were purposefully insulting, and I do thoroughly despise you for it.

574 BlueCanuck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:28:35pm

re: #571 DaddyG

We're having a pissing contest here. What do you think you are doing by making an on topic post? //

Gentlemen, there is no fighting in the war room...

575 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:28:37pm
576 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:29:00pm
577 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:29:09pm

I could be up all Knight with Chaucer puns, although, if you'll Pardoner me, I could Cook while doing it. Sometimes a Prioress commitment gets in the way, but Nun could say that I was seeking a rep-Reeve. I might just have to Shipman out to go and see the Doctor soon, and if you don't know who I left, out, you are undereducated. (Or at got an edited version in high school.)

578 snowcrash  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:29:14pm

re: #544 LudwigVanQuixote

And while we are at it, it was a statement of simple fact. Jews really do Believe that Moses took dictation from G-d to write the Torah.

It is the same type of statement as saying that Christians believe in the resurrection of Christ.


No it is the same type of statement as Christian Bible literalists make. Why don't you stick to what you know and leave the Christian stuff out of it.

579 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:29:25pm

re: #573 LudwigVanQuixote

I went on to compare this to "the perversion of Torah" that is Naturei Carta.

I refuse to be slandered. I was bashing no Christian.

Walter, you are a contemptible liar. You were purposefully insulting, and I do thoroughly despise you for it.

Thank G-d. I was starting to think you were falling in love with me. Glad we got past that.

580 SteveC  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:29:30pm

re: #565 Yashmak

Why did Hitler start a war without a surface fleet? Uh, he had one. One large enough to keep a substantial portion of the British fleet at home, out of fear that the Germans would sally forth with their pocket battleships and heavy cruisers.

That must have been cool, to have a battleship small enough to stick on your pocket.

581 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:29:54pm

re: #572 Occasional Reader

Oh, let's just pull out all the stoppards, shall we?

Odets nothing, we are just getting started.

582 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:30:06pm

re: #547 Kenneth

Among Shia, Sistani is the most respected Shia cleric in the world. Iraqi democracy is now undermining Iranian theocracy.

Gee. Who da thunk it?

583 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:30:12pm

Ack, typos. My computer is too jumpy for me to go back and fix them, so I'll just say PIMF.

584 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:30:22pm
585 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:30:52pm

re: #553 Walter L. Newton

Right. Of course, both being unproven myths.

So if you hate religion so much, why are you suddenly defending Christians against an attack on them that was never made.

Walter, is there a reason that you need to be so hypocritical? Why does it matter to you.

You are willing to cherry pick what I say to "defend" a faith you have nothing but contempt for. What is the point?

586 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:31:08pm

re: #573 LudwigVanQuixote

I knew exactly what you meant when you made those comments, and as a Christian I was not offended, nor have I ever thought you held my faith against me. It has been the complete opposite- you've always been respectful of me, and as a Christian, I've learned a lot from you about Faith in many of your comments from Intelligent Design threads- it's been invaluable to me. 'garycooper' is an ass and not worthy of your time.

587 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:31:15pm

re: #572 Occasional Reader

Oh, let's just pull out all the stoppards, shall we?

Will is still shaking his spear and laughing at Ben's little jonson.

588 Eowyn2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:31:15pm

re: #521 Kenneth

OT, but interesting...

The Death Spiral of the Islamic Republic


Very interesting.

Blaming the US in 3.2..

589 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:31:48pm

re: #584 buzzsawmonkey

Well, Albee.

That one was done already. Tell me, could go go marlowe, even if you tried?

590 Yashmak  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:31:56pm

re: #571 DaddyG

We're having a pissing contest here. What do you think you are doing by making an on topic post? //

Sorry, my bad. That garycooper fellow vs. pretty much everyone, eh?

591 SteveC  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:32:11pm

re: #583 EmmmieG

Ack, typos. My computer is too jumpy for me to go back and fix them, so I'll just say PIMF.

Tell your computer to ease up on the caffeine! :)

592 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:32:23pm
593 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:32:23pm
Reports have emerged that there is a strong possibility of workers’ strikes in Iran. Reports suggest that over 200,000 workers have not been paid their wages in months and this could lead to strikes in the very near future. This comes as the workers in Fars province’s main automobile factory have been on strike over the issue for the past five days. Other reports suggest that unemployment in Tehran alone has risen by 3% in the past few months.

Massive industrial strikes? Death knell for the regime.

594 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:32:28pm

re: #587 Cato the Elder

Will is still shaking his spear and laughing at Ben's little jonson.

I heard that!

595 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:32:39pm
596 Spenser (with an S)  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:32:40pm

re: #584 buzzsawmonkey

Ha, beat you by 40, Buzz :) check #543.

597 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:32:54pm

re: #593 Kenneth

Massive industrial strikes? Death knell for the regime.

That would be awesome.

598 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:32:59pm

re: #587 Cato the Elder

Will is still shaking his spear and laughing at Ben's little jonson.

Well, there are two more playwright names we can chekhov the pun list.

599 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:33:07pm

re: #588 Eowyn2

Blaming the US in 3.2..

Don't forget the Jews and the Mossad... Can't leave them out of this. If you have a Great Satan, you have to have a Little Satan sidekick.. I mean, whats Batman without Robin, etc..

600 ~Fianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:33:23pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout

More crazy here...

Bachmann: We Should "Slit Our Wrists, Be Blood Brothers" To Defeat Health Care Reform

SarahPac gave her a check, according to CNN's ticker.

601 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:33:29pm
602 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:34:02pm

re: #601 buzzsawmonkey

That's the problem with trying to work and follow a pun thread at the same time.

I'm calling you out on this playwright pun thread, you Coward!

603 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:34:10pm

re: #585 LudwigVanQuixote

So if you hate religion so much, why are you suddenly defending Christians against an attack on them that was never made.

Walter, is there a reason that you need to be so hypocritical? Why does it matter to you.

You are willing to cherry pick what I say to "defend" a faith you have nothing but contempt for. What is the point?

It wouldn't matter if I believed in a tree toad as god (that would be as good as anything else we have) because I like to be fair.

Why does it bother you to have it pointed out that you spent a whole day yesterday, off and on, stating your opinion about Christians (and not very nice opinions), but when someone, anyone doesn't agree with you, you start cursing and trash mouthing?

My goodness.

604 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:34:12pm

re: #573 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeahh ,,, about that


decent folks known as Christians

That can be taken any number of ways, and only one of them even slightly good!

It wasn't "Christains",,, ,,, It wasn't "people who are Christians". It was kind of minimized!

((ahhh ,, see how easlily ones words can be wrongly intrepretted IF one is pre-desposed to being a victim!)

605 DaddyG  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:34:16pm

re: #601 buzzsawmonkey

That's the problem with trying to work and follow a pun thread at the same time.

Heh. I just skip the spellcheck to save time.

606 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:34:24pm

re: #596 Spenser (with an S)

Ha, beat you by 40, Buzz :) check #543.

O'Neill in both of your presense...

607 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:34:55pm

re: #589 Occasional Reader

That one was done already. Tell me, could go go marlowe, even if you tried?

Hugo lower, I'm not about to be Synge d.

608 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:34:58pm

re: #578 snowcrash

No it is the same type of statement as Christian Bible literalists make. Why don't you stick to what you know and leave the Christian stuff out of it.

OK I hear your point. Not all Christians believe the entire doctrine. There are many Jews who believe that teh Torah was only divinely inspired and not divinely authored as well.

However, it is just a misstatement of fact to deny that the actual doctrine is that the Torah was dictated to Moses by G-d for Jews that Jesus was resurrected for Christians.

No offense was intended by the remark.

609 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:35:15pm
610 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:35:21pm
611 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:35:28pm

re: #586 Sharmuta

I knew exactly what you meant when you made those comments, and as a Christian I was not offended, nor have I ever thought you held my faith against me. It has been the complete opposite- you've always been respectful of me, and as a Christian, I've learned a lot from you about Faith in many of your comments from Intelligent Design threads- it's been invaluable to me. 'garycooper' is an ass and not worthy of your time.

Have I mentioned recently that I love you Sharm?

612 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:35:32pm
613 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:35:32pm

re: #582 experiencedtraveller

It must be some mistake... we were reliably told that Iran now controls Iraq and the Persian Gulf.

614 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:35:35pm

re: #602 Occasional Reader

I'm calling you out on this playwright pun thread, you Coward!

I will answer you in ibsentia

615 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:35:36pm
616 Yashmak  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:36:22pm

re: #609 garycooper

Okay, I had my fun. Later!

I'm a bit behind on my LGF lingo. . .was that a flounce?

617 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:36:39pm

I wonder if in 70 years there will also be somebody so stupid and ignorant as to write an article about how pat buchanan wasn't so bad.

618 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:36:40pm

re: #603 Walter L. Newton

You're distorting what Ludwig made very clear from the beginning. He was criticizing a small percentage of Christians while thinking the remainder were good people and he defined them and distinguished between the two.

619 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:36:42pm

re: #592 Cato the Elder

Quite right.

You hijack a whole thread with personal invective against one lizard. You're not boring, but you are an asshole. Pull your head out.

That's gotta leave a mark.

620 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:36:45pm

re: #607 ArchangelMichael

Hugo lower, I'm not about to be Synge d.

You seem to be trying to split a Hare with me.

621 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:36:48pm

re: #602 Occasional Reader

I'm calling you out on this playwright pun thread, you Coward!

Hey Mac, it's the Leish you can do!

622 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:36:51pm

re: #609 garycooper

Okay, I had my fun. Later!

Another troll-admission.

Somehow I'll be surprised if your admission is still good for later.

623 BlueCanuck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:37:01pm

re: #616 Yashmak

I'm a bit behind on my LGF lingo. . .was that a flounce?


If stinky catches him before he returns we could count it as such. :)

624 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:37:11pm

re: #610 buzzsawmonkey

Give some of you guys an Inge and you'll take a mile.

Stop Suckling up to OR...

625 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:37:26pm

re: #610 buzzsawmonkey

Give some of you guys an Inge and you'll take a mile.

Only a Dumas would do that.

626 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:37:36pm

re: #603 Walter L. Newton

It wouldn't matter if I believed in a tree toad as god (that would be as good as anything else we have) because I like to be fair.

Why does it bother you to have it pointed out that you spent a whole day yesterday, off and on, stating your opinion about Christians (and not very nice opinions), but when someone, anyone doesn't agree with you, you start cursing and trash mouthing?

My goodness.

It bothers me that you are purposefully trying to twist my words to make me look like something I am not. It is very low and very snakelike.

You tried it yesterday and got called on it, now you are trying again.

You just don't learn. Walter, I really have no desire to fight with you, but every board I am on, you have to come and snark at me.

That would be OK, if you didn't also lie.

627 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:37:46pm
628 Eowyn2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:37:49pm

re: #537 garycooper

Spin, boy, spin! You're more fun than a clown on fire.

Now, how about that dictation-thing, again...it's an absurd impossibility, for a host of reasons. There were a number of different authors of the Torah, and real Biblical scholars (unfettered by matters of faith and dogma) have identifed their different styles and probable dates of editorship. Not to mention, a whole bunch of contradictions, doublets (where the same story is told twice, in slightly-different forms), and various different names for God being used. It's not a matter for serious people to debate. Moses did not write it, unless he was affected by multiple-personality disorder.


/stand back, it's gonna blow!

As a Catholic, I'm pretty sure that God dictated the 10 commandments to Moses (a Jew.) So I can understand that He would dictatate other parts of the Torah as well. Editing and translations aside, of course.

629 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:38:02pm

re: #617 spacejesus

I wonder if in 70 years there will also be somebody so stupid and ignorant as to write an article about how pat buchanan wasn't so bad.

It only took the Dems 2 weeks to decide Sadaam wasn't so bad.

630 garycooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:38:08pm

re: #586 Sharmuta

I knew exactly what you meant when you made those comments, and as a Christian I was not offended, nor have I ever thought you held my faith against me. It has been the complete opposite- you've always been respectful of me, and as a Christian, I've learned a lot from you about Faith in many of your comments from Intelligent Design threads- it's been invaluable to me. 'garycooper' is an ass and not worthy of your time.

You always say that, no matter the topic. Funny how you and Coracle always leap to Dr. Ludes's defense. Are you worried he can't handle a little classroom heckling? The man is an educator!

631 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:38:11pm

re: #618 Sharmuta

You're distorting what Ludwig made very clear from the beginning. He was criticizing a small percentage of Christians while thinking the remainder were good people and he defined them and distinguished between the two.

Criticizing a small percentage. At least you're honest enough to admit that he was.

632 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:38:30pm
633 snowcrash  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:38:40pm

re: #622 Cato the Elder
This is 2 day old slugfest involving quite a few lizards.

634 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:38:42pm

re: #611 LudwigVanQuixote

Have I mentioned recently that I love you Sharm?

I love you too, {Ludwig}.

635 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:38:58pm
636 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:38:59pm

re: #620 Occasional Reader

You seem to be trying to split a Hare with me.

Well the Grass is always Greene-r on the other side.

637 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:39:07pm
638 Yashmak  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:39:24pm

re: #628 Eowyn2

So I can understand that He would dictatate other parts of the Torah as well. Editing and translations aside, of course.

Better watch out, or garycooper will correct your spelling. It helps him win the argument, you know:) /sarc

639 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:39:31pm

Ibsen all around the block, but I've never seen a Hauptmann play.

640 SteveC  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:39:37pm

re: #616 Yashmak

I'm a bit behind on my LGF lingo. . .was that a flounce?

A getaway!

641 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:39:40pm

re: #620 Occasional Reader

You seem to be trying to split a Hare with me.

No it's just that despite my Ernst attempts, it's getting Hardt to come up with playwright names.

642 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:39:42pm

re: #577 EmmmieG

I could be up all Knight with Chaucer puns, although, if you'll Pardoner me, I could Cook while doing it. Sometimes a Prioress commitment gets in the way, but Nun could say that I was seeking a rep-Reeve. I might just have to Shipman out to go and see the Doctor soon, and if you don't know who I left, out, you are undereducated. (Or at got an edited version in high school.)

Nice, Emmie!

643 Ojoe  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:39:47pm

Extreme towercam view. Amazing you can still get it.

And Buchanan is so weak minded that he is being fooled by a dead man.

644 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:40:08pm

re: #597 Sharmuta

The protests in June are not finished. The regime cracked down hard, but they did not break the people. The behind the scenes power struggle is still going on and Ahmadinejad's faction is slipping. Khamenei is dying of cancer, so there is a limit to how much influence he can wield anymore. Meanwhile, we keep hearing of curious explosions, plane crashes random assassinations... the regime is tearing itself apart, not pulling together.

I just hope & pray Obama does not do something stupid like save the regime with some stupid diplomatic opening.

Crush the bugs!

645 Gus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:40:12pm

re: #637 garycooper

Grow up.

646 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:40:29pm

Poor Stinky.

647 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:40:36pm

re: #629 Ben Hur

It only took the Dems 2 weeks to decide Sadaam wasn't so bad.

and it only took republicans 2 seconds to decide to give him support to launch a preemptive attack against his neighbors

648 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:40:36pm

re: #609 garycooper

Okay, I had my fun. Later!

When you stir the shit, do you use a clockwise or counter-clockwise motion?

649 Eowyn2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:40:41pm

re: #599 MikeAlv77

Don't forget the Jews and the Mossad... Can't leave them out of this. If you have a Great Satan, you have to have a Little Satan sidekick.. I mean, whats Batman without Robin, etc..

straight?

650 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:40:54pm

re: #612 keithgabryelski

Please don't link that racist site here. Stinky don't like it.

651 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:40:57pm

re: #641 ArchangelMichael

No it's just that despite my Ernst attempts, it's getting Hardt to come up with playwright names.

You just have to be Thoreau. (was he a playwright?...not sure come to think of it)

652 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:41:00pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout

More crazy here...

Bachmann: We Should "Slit Our Wrists, Be Blood Brothers" To Defeat Health Care Reform

Do we have to swear a secret oath, too? What is this? Tom Sawyer Goes to Congress?

653 Coracle  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:41:00pm

Apparently "later" for garycooper is under 3 minutes.

Followed by more baiting.

Troll.

654 SteveC  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:41:05pm

re: #617 spacejesus

I wonder if in 70 years there will also be somebody so stupid and ignorant as to write an article about how pat buchanan wasn't so bad.

OMG, SpaceJesus is making sense!

It's confirmed - someone opened all Seven Seals at once!

655 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:41:18pm

re: #612 keithgabryelski

You could just tell us it's there, and not link to the vile site.

656 garycooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:41:20pm

re: #628 Eowyn2

As a Catholic, I'm pretty sure that God dictated the 10 commandments to Moses (a Jew.) So I can understand that He would dictatate other parts of the Torah as well. Editing and translations aside, of course.

Well, you couldn't be more wrong about that. But, I've caused enough trouble for today. You do your own research.

657 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:41:37pm

re: #641 ArchangelMichael

No it's just that despite my Ernst attempts, it's getting Hardt to come up with playwright names.

Verily I say to thee, thus is it always with the pun thread: Easy cometh, easy Goethe.

658 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:41:58pm

re: #647 SpaceJesus

and it only took republicans 2 seconds to decide to give him support to launch a preemptive attack against his neighbors

Kuwait? Or Iran?

659 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:42:02pm

re: #644 Kenneth

I have been trying to keep up on news from Iran since the crack down, but I've failed to look in the last few days. You're comments are music to my ears- I certainly pray the Iranian people take what ever steps they can to liberate themselves. What a glorious thing it would be to see that regime fall.

660 Bagua  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:42:07pm

re: #643 Ojoe

Extreme towercam view. Amazing you can still get it.

Apparently one of the powerlines is still operational. It's a sad site to watch for those who care.

661 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:42:08pm

re: #644 Kenneth

The protests in June are not finished. The regime cracked down hard, but they did not break the people. The behind the scenes power struggle is still going on and Ahmadinejad's faction is slipping. Khamenei is dying of cancer, so there is a limit to how much influence he can wield anymore. Meanwhile, we keep hearing of curious explosions, plane crashes random assassinations... the regime is tearing itself apart, not pulling together.

I just hope & pray Obama does not do something stupid like save the regime with some stupid diplomatic opening.

Crush the bugs!

Seems they will crush themselves and none too soon..

Its the Jews fault..

// Had to throw that in for the Islamic terrorists...

662 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:42:25pm

re: #633 snowcrash

This is 2 day old slugfest involving quite a few lizards.

And?

663 Eowyn2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:42:28pm

re: #638 Yashmak

Better watch out, or garycooper will correct your spelling. It helps him win the argument, you know:) /sarc

should I redactatate?

664 snowcrash  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:42:33pm

re: #637 garycooper
Going on and on is just askin' for it.

665 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:42:44pm

'dafy is celebrating his 40th year as POS Dicktator today and the WSJ has a somewhat interesting picture as part of a slide-show.

Take a look at picture 6 whose caption reads:

Scottish officials released the only man convicted of the Lockerbie bombing, Abdel Baset al-Megrahi, on compassionate grounds Aug. 20, saying doctors determined he had only three months to live. His release and warm welcome in Libya were met with international outrage. At left, performers reproduced the scene of a hanging at the former U.S. base.
666 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:42:48pm
667 Eowyn2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:43:12pm

re: #651 LGoPs

You just have to be Thoreau. (was he a playwright?...not sure come to think of it)


I know there was a play about him

668 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:43:27pm

re: #632 HoosierHoops

Thank Gawd! It wasn't fun for thousands of readers...Nice you enjoyed it...
/Deep breathe..
Hi Lizards! How is everyone doing today?

Well, I feel like hell. I've got a low-grade fever, and my head keeps doing that "reverb" thing. Every movement produces an echo of pain.

I hope you're doing well, though?

669 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:43:38pm

re: #662 Cato the Elder

And?

And, perhaps it's time to pour salt on the slugfest.

670 garycooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:43:44pm

re: #648 MandyManners

When you stir the shit, do you use a clockwise or counter-clockwise motion?

Clockwise. I'm right-handed, like all normal, rational people.

671 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:44:03pm

re: #649 Eowyn2

straight?

That was never proven. You have nothing but innuendo... Like Michale Jackson, a olde rman hanging out with a teen age boy is pefectly innocent...

672 kansas  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:44:04pm

OT
Dear Leader to Speak to the School Children September 8th.

673 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:44:17pm

re: #633 snowcrash

This is 2 day old slugfest involving quite a few lizards.

And it is time it came to an end. Enough is enough. I've seen enough ad hominem remarks in the past 150 comments to last me the rest of the week! LGF is much less enjoyable to read when commentors are slugging it out with each other.

674 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:44:35pm

re: #644 Kenneth

The protests in June are not finished. The regime cracked down hard, but they did not break the people. The behind the scenes power struggle is still going on and Ahmadinejad's faction is slipping. Khamenei is dying of cancer, so there is a limit to how much influence he can wield anymore. Meanwhile, we keep hearing of curious explosions, plane crashes random assassinations... the regime is tearing itself apart, not pulling together.

I just hope & pray Obama does not do something stupid like save the regime with some stupid diplomatic opening.

Crush the bugs!

I wonder if we'll hear of underground explosions over the nuke facilities.

675 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:44:37pm
676 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:44:45pm
677 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:44:47pm

re: #673 Honorary Yooper

And it is time it came to an end. Enough is enough. I've seen enough ad hominem remarks in the past 150 comments to last me the rest of the week! LGF is much less enjoyable to read when commentors are slugging it out with each other.

Ban 'em all, and let Stinky sort 'em out.

678 SteveC  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:44:54pm

re: #668 Dianna

Well, I feel like hell. I've got a low-grade fever, and my head keeps doing that "reverb" thing. Every movement produces an echo of pain.

I hope you're doing well, though?

Well, so much for asking you to dinner! I can bring take out and OTC medications to your place, if you want?

679 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:45:09pm

All gone.

680 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:45:15pm

re: #669 Occasional Reader

And, perhaps it's time to pour salt on the slugfest.

Did somebody call for The Slugs?

Youtube Video

Too Bad!

681 BlueCanuck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:45:23pm

re: #670 garycooper

Clockwise. I'm right-handed, like all normal, rational people.

So you're saying that southpaws aren't? That's a sweepiing generalization.

682 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:45:23pm

re: #668 Dianna

Well, I feel like hell. I've got a low-grade fever, and my head keeps doing that "reverb" thing. Every movement produces an echo of pain.

I hope you're doing well, though?

That must be Hell...Hope you get feeling better...Take a nap my dear...

683 kansas  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:45:28pm

Obama's poll ratings are in free fall.

684 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:45:35pm

Ohh, quick double-tap! Nice shootin', Stinky.

685 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:45:46pm

re: #669 Occasional Reader

And, perhaps it's time to pour salt on the slugfest.

I think Stinky is doing exactly that in the greenhouse right now.

686 DaddyG  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:45:49pm

I'm almost out of popcorn.

I've been all over the universe and earth makes the best popcorn.

687 jcm  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:45:51pm

re: #643 Ojoe

Extreme towercam view. Amazing you can still get it.

And Buchanan is so weak minded that he is being fooled by a dead man.

Site is down for me, are still able to load it?

688 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:45:56pm

re: #683 kansas

Obama's poll ratings are in free fall.

It's nothing to worry about, it's not a trend.

689 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:46:00pm
690 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:46:09pm

Obama Fishing

Overhead cast, looks like he might be double hauling. Nice loop, good form.

691 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:46:13pm

re: #570 Honorary Yooper

Beliefs and evidence are sometimes in contradiction to each other (YECs being a major case in point).

Wiki has some interesting articles regarding the authorship of the five books of Moses.

Mosaic Authorship
Documentary Hypothesis

Oh there is a huge amount of discussion about the authorship of the Bible.

There is no debate that the debate exists.

However, it is a tenant of the Jewish faith that Moses took dictation independent of whether or not all Jews believe that personally or if the scholars agree. This is just a statement of fact.

Now one thing that is certain is that the Torah is very very old. The oldest surviving scrolls date back long enough that there was not a tremendously long period of time for competing texts to be "formalized" a la council of Mycena, and the Jewish tradition, which has a habit of writing down and discussing to extreme detail each variant letter in the Torah, and what it means, has NO record of such a council.

692 Ojoe  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:46:37pm

re: #683 kansas

Showing his lack of grounding.

693 kansas  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:46:38pm

re: #688 Walter L. Newton

It's nothing to worry about, it's not a trend.

Crap.

694 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:46:40pm

Outgoing IAEA chief ElBaradei calls Iranian threat 'hyped'

695 Eowyn2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:46:47pm

re: #673 Honorary Yooper

And it is time it came to an end. Enough is enough. I've seen enough ad hominem remarks in the past 150 comments to last me the rest of the week! LGF is much less enjoyable to read when commentors are slugging it out with each other.

shall we gest some side bets going?

696 Bagua  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:47:07pm

re: #687 jcm

Site is down for me, are still able to load it?

I was just on a minute ago, heavy smoke all around the towers, but not having problems as well, could just be overloaded.

697 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:47:28pm
698 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:47:39pm

Something's changed on LGF the last few days it seems. My system is really herky jerky. Scrolling up and down the thread makes it hard to find any particular post.
Refresh doesn't seem to help either. Anybody else seeing this?

699 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:47:55pm

re: #646 Sharmuta

Poor Stinky.

Nahhh ,,, Job Security!

700 jcm  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:48:04pm

re: #694 Ben Hur

Outgoing IAEA chief ElBaradei calls Iranian threat 'hyped'

Wondering aloud...

What's in his offshore bank accounts and where did it come from?

701 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:48:05pm

re: #691 LudwigVanQuixote

However, it is a tenant of the Jewish faith

Walk humbly before thy Land-Lord.

/

702 BlueCanuck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:48:09pm

re: #697 garycooper

Yeah, cork it.

703 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:48:10pm

re: #678 SteveC

Well, so much for asking you to dinner! I can bring take out and OTC medications to your place, if you want?

Let me ask the Male.

704 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:48:34pm

re: #669 Occasional Reader

And, perhaps it's time to pour salt on the slugfest.

Seems Stinky is workin' the salt shaker as we speak.

705 SteveC  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:48:49pm

re: #670 garycooper

Clockwise. I'm right-handed, like all normal, rational people.

You're right-handed? Everyone is born left-handed; you change to righty when you commit your first sin.

/Still lefty, still perfect!

706 kansas  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:48:55pm

All right. Hey how about that Kansas Representative talking about the Great White Hope? Olbermann all exercised about that.

707 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:48:56pm

I'm sorry, Charles.

708 eric_odessit  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:49:04pm

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Interestingly enough, people like Buchanan and Ron Paul supporters proclaim their opposition to Socialism and their support for limited government. But Hitler was a Socialist, an ultimate proponent of a big and powerful government. Does that mean they would support a Socialist, as long as that Socialist is anti-Semitic enough?
Eric.

709 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:49:14pm

re: #684 Occasional Reader

Good control, nice pattern.

710 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:49:45pm

re: #707 MandyManners

I'm sorry, Charles.

Me too. Reply is our friend.

711 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:50:01pm

re: #695 Eowyn2

shall we gest some side bets going?

Shit. It's gotten to the point where Stinky may have to ban someone to stop the bickering. The Code Pink thread last night was a horrible read with all the deletions and fighting.

712 Gus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:50:09pm

Looks like he got a Timeout.

713 jcm  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:50:20pm

re: #705 SteveC

You're right-handed? Everyone is born left-handed; you change to righty when you commit your first sin.

/Still lefty, still perfect!

I see a very sinister motive in your comment!

/;-P

714 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:50:35pm

May I remind everyone of the LGF Troll Prayer:

Lord, grant me the serenity to ignore the trolls, the courage to debate with honest opponents, and the wisdom to know the difference.

So it was written. So shall it be done.

Or else expect Stinky to be breaking out the clue by C4.

715 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:50:36pm

re: #186 calcajun

No-- Pat is better looking.

Good Lord. Do tell me in what universe is Hitler to be considered "not so bad". OK, as a painter of cheap art, he was not so bad. As a fledgling architect, he was not so bad. As an orator, he was, in fact, pretty good. As a planner of infrastructure renewal, he was OK. But, tell me how, in the name of God, when you consider the sum of his parts, was he "good".

Pat, there's a "church" in Idaho -- with a cross and double lightening bolts-- where you'd feel right at home. Please go there--and stay there.

Churchill was a far better artist. Could have been commercial, I suspect, if he had had the time to devote.

Eisenhower also painted, which I only learned recently. THere was an article in the local paper's art section.

716 kansas  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:50:43pm

This user is having a timeout.

I have never seen that before, made me laugh. OK. I'll stop changing subjects now. Carry on.

717 DaddyG  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:50:48pm

re: #672 kansas

OT
Dear Leader to Speak to the School Children September 8th.

Could be good, could be bad.

Depends on the topic and the call to action.

I don't trust this administration based on their past campaigning and I smell an appeal for 6 year old Health Care lobbyists to work over mommy and daddy.

Will John McCain be asked to give the republican response?

718 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:50:55pm

Pat Buchanan is a Father Charles Coughlan Catholic:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

'Nuff said about him; he is unworthy of serious consideration

But historically, several ancient legal codes are older than the Ten Commandments, and their influences on it are obvious:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

So either the Ten Commandments were derived from these prior legal codes, or God spoke to their authors first.

719 theheat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:50:56pm

re: #137 pat

How about Human Events: The Conservative Underground, with an intro here.

He's also listed as a columnist on the first page of drudgereport.com, and has been for some time.

Buchanan likes to write things when he isn't flapping his beagle jaws on the tele. Like, books and stuff.

720 Ojoe  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:51:04pm

re: #687 jcm

It just loaded at 12:45:47

It shows very close smoke/

721 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:51:15pm

re: #694 Ben Hur

Outgoing IAEA chief ElBaradei calls Iranian threat 'hyped'

saying there is no proof the Islamic republic will soon have nuclear weapons.

Will a crater where Tel Aviv once was be proof enough for him?

722 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:51:15pm

re: #613 Kenneth

It must be some mistake... we were reliably told that Iran now controls Iraq and the Persian Gulf.

I look forward to the day when I can help rebuild the industrial works in Pasparan and other works in southwestern Iran. I've seen a lot of the technical specifications. They need huge investment but companies would jump at the chance given a democratic government in Tehran.

723 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:51:29pm

re: #714 lawhawk

May I remind everyone of the LGF Troll Prayer:

Lord, grant me the serenity to ignore the trolls, the courage to debate with honest opponents, and the wisdom to know the difference.

So it was written. So shall it be done.

Or else expect Stinky to be breaking out the clue by C4.

I miss the prayer. Thanks.

724 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:51:49pm

re: #715 SanFranciscoZionist

Patton was a performance artist, way ahead of his time.

725 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:51:56pm
garycooper
This user is having a timeout.
Karma: 124
Registered since: Mar 12, 2006 at 6:17 pm
No. of comments posted: 756
No. of links posted: 0

Wondered when that would happen.

Gary, please use this timeout to think about what happened in this thread. It's not a good thing.

726 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:52:13pm

re: #670 garycooper

Clockwise. I'm right-handed, like all normal, rational people.

And now, a slur on the differently-handed.

Don't try to be "normal", people. It only encourages those who think they are.

727 Bagua  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:52:27pm

re: #720 Ojoe

It just loaded at 12:45:47

It shows very close smoke/

Yes, I have it again, their server must be smoking as well.

728 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:52:32pm

re: #658 Ben Hur

Kuwait? Or Iran?

iran. doesn't matter if iran was just as fascist as iraq was in my opinion. supporting fascists never is a good idea. unless you're handing them guns they're planning to place on their own temples of course.

729 kansas  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:52:33pm

re: #717 DaddyG

Could be good, could be bad.

Depends on the topic and the call to action.

I don't trust this administration based on their past campaigning and I smell an appeal for 6 year old Health Care lobbyists to work over mommy and daddy.

Will John McCain be asked to give the republican response?

I think it stinks of big brotherism and I don't trust him to not load it up with far left indoctrination. Wait till the 9/11 call for national service diatribe.

730 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:52:48pm

re: #706 kansas

All right. Hey how about that Kansas Representative talking about the Great White Hope? Olbermann all exercised about that.

I don't know the context, but how does using a well-known phrase suddenly become a problem? Did the rep use it in such a way that it can only mean "a white person"?

731 Eowyn2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:52:53pm

re: #706 kansas

All right. Hey how about that Kansas Representative talking about the Great White Hope? Olbermann all exercised about that.

around here, when someone says "great white hope' they are using it in a derogatory way
ie
who do you think you are "the great white hope?"

732 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:52:57pm

re: #721 MandyManners

saying there is no proof the Islamic republic will soon have nuclear weapons.

Will a crater where Tel Aviv once was be proof enough for him?

You know his answer: Inshallah

733 Bagua  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:53:14pm

re: #725 Honorary Yooper

Wondered when that would happen.

Gary, please use this timeout to think about what happened in this thread. It's not a good thing.

Agreed.

734 Buck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:53:14pm

re: #674 MandyManners

I wonder if we'll hear of underground explosions over the nuke facilities.

I wonder if they cause their own accident, and we see a China Syndrome...does radioactive oil cost more? Or Less?

735 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:53:55pm

re: #198 jill e

Isn't this a smack in the face of all our WWII veterans who died fighting to defeat Hitler?

You had better believe it--and those who came home--a category that includes both my grandfathers, and all the other men in that generation of my family.

This is not to say that opposing any war is an insult to its veterans--but lying about it is.

736 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:53:56pm

Later.

737 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:54:03pm

re: #694 Ben Hur

Outgoing IAEA chief ElBaradei calls Iranian threat 'hyped'

ElBaradei's wife is the cousin of a Iranian radical mullah in Ahmadinejad's radical faction. Curious isn't it?

But of Mo is outgoing, who is incoming?

738 jcm  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:54:08pm

re: #721 MandyManners

saying there is no proof the Islamic republic will soon have nuclear weapons.

Will a crater where Tel Aviv once was be proof enough for him?

That would be Zionist plot to have an excuse to nuke the peace loving Islamic Republic.

739 theheat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:54:09pm

re: #734 Buck

does radioactive oil cost more? Or Less?

The real question, will it increase my mpg?

740 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:54:58pm

re: #713 jcm

I see a very sinister motive in your comment!

/;-P

It's weird.. I'm a southpaw but I do everything right handed except write...
I play baseball, Golf, Balling, everything right handed...The Hoopster is weird..
/You don't have to agree

741 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:55:00pm

re: #736 Occasional Reader

Later.

Ya leaving' by the gator or th' door?

742 Bagua  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:55:08pm

re: #727 Bagua

Note: the large amount of new smoke seen is due to backfires set by firefighters. This is the best thing to do at the moment. Go California firefighters!

743 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:55:13pm

A thing of beauty to sooth slugfest-weary souls.

744 Eowyn2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:55:19pm

re: #721 MandyManners

saying there is no proof the Islamic republic will soon have nuclear weapons.

Will a crater where Tel Aviv once was be proof enough for him?

No, it will have been caused by a sink hole.

745 SteveC  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:55:31pm

re: #713 jcm

I see a very sinister motive in your comment!

/;-P

The other side hijacked the meaning. :(

My left handed girlfriend told me that one, then winked and said "But I've learned a few things on the sly!"

/Do tell!

746 MikeAlv77  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:56:00pm

re: #740 HoosierHoops

It's weird.. I'm a southpaw but I do everything right handed except write...
I play baseball, Golf, Balling, everything right handed...The Hoopster is weird..
/You don't have to agree

Way too much info...

747 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:56:05pm

re: #732 Creeping Eruption

You know his answer: Inshallah

If I were clever, I'd write a song about "The Madhi in the Well" to the tune of "The Farmer in the Dell".

748 doubter4444  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:56:12pm

re: #476 LGoPs

I agree. It is a military axiom that amateurs study tactics. Professional soldiers study Logistics. Logistics, particularly the movement of supplies by train over vast distances were the arteries that kept the German war machine moving. Any decisions to limit those trains showed where the real priorities lay.

Agreed, and it's one of the most fascinating things about WWII.
The massive supply lines necessary, particularly in the S. Pacific is an incredible story, and great history.

749 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:56:38pm

re: #721 MandyManners

saying there is no proof the Islamic republic will soon have nuclear weapons.

Will a crater where Tel Aviv once was be proof enough for him?

And this is why I wish that there were a real center right party to combat such nonsense.

750 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:56:41pm

re: #734 Buck

I wonder if they cause their own accident, and we see a China Syndrome...does radioactive oil cost more? Or Less?

I wold hope that it doesn't get that far.

751 kansas  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:57:08pm

re: #730 Dianna

I don't know the context, but how does using a well-known phrase suddenly become a problem? Did the rep use it in such a way that it can only mean "a white person"?

re: #731 Eowyn2

around here, when someone says "great white hope' they are using it in a derogatory way
ie
who do you think you are "the great white hope?"

Well, she was using it in the context of someone to run against the policies of Obama. She says she didn't mean it racially. Hard to say. In historical context it refers to trying to find a white boxer to defeat the black champion of his day, 1919 or so, Jim Johnson. I remember throughout the years referring to white boxes as the great white hope, but that's before referring to things white was such a no no, while blackness is fine. I was wondering how long before the "White House" is off limits.

752 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:57:18pm

re: #740 HoosierHoops

/You don't have to agree

But what if we feel a sudden compulsion to UP-DING that ?!?!

:D

753 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:57:19pm

re: #737 Kenneth

ElBaradei's wife is the cousin of a Iranian radical mullah in Ahmadinejad's radical faction. Curious isn't it?

But of Mo is outgoing, who is incoming?

No shit?

754 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:57:34pm

re: #718 Salamantis

Pat Buchanan is a Father Charles Coughlan Catholic:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

'Nuff said about him; he is unworthy of serious consideration

But historically, several ancient legal codes are older than the Ten Commandments, and their influences on it are obvious:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

So either the Ten Commandments were derived from these prior legal codes, or God spoke to their authors first.

How about we make peace? I'm being serious.

755 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:57:58pm

re: #746 MikeAlv77

Way too much info...

Basketball! If you played ball in school you were called a Baller...
dirty mind! *wink*

756 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:58:06pm

re: #747 MandyManners

If I were clever, I'd write a song about "The Madhi in the Well" to the tune of "The Farmer in the Dell".

But you ARE clever Mands. Who but you could come up with classics like "Go piss up a rope", sung to the tume "Go Piss Up A Rope"!

757 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:58:08pm

re: #728 SpaceJesus

iran. doesn't matter if iran was just as fascist as iraq was in my opinion. supporting fascists never is a good idea. unless you're handing them guns they're planning to place on their own temples of course.

Or it's the middle of a 50 year "Cold War" when today's BS was looked at in a different, bigger light.

758 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:58:16pm

re: #754 LudwigVanQuixote

Because that was a good post of yours Sal.

759 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:58:32pm

re: #738 jcm

That would be Zionist plot to have an excuse to nuke the peace loving Islamic Republic.

Just like the Holocaust was an excuse to invade and kick out the Jordyptians.

760 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:58:46pm

re: #209 MikeAlv77

Diasgree with you there. The Soviets were trying to make the people of Afghanistan move from their way of loving into towns and cities to make control easier. They bombed and murdered their way through the countryside. They were also on their way out before we really got involved cause they knew it was a bad thing but their beauracy wouldn't allow them to leave and admit the mistake.

There's a science fiction novel I read years ago in which one member of an interplanetary exploration team is a devout Maoist. The rest of the team tries to send her home at one point because she's trying to urbanize the natives--if they don't have an urban proletariat, they can't progress to Communism. Very interesting piece, overall.

761 Erik The Red  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:59:07pm

WTF? I go away for 20 minutes and 200 comments and the tread looks like a bone field.

762 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:59:23pm

WWII: Intense Propaganda Posters

763 SteveC  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 12:59:48pm

re: #761 Erik The Red

WTF? I go away for 20 minutes and 200 comments and the tread looks like a bone field.

That ought to teach ya! Aren't you the Officer of the Deck?

764 BlueCanuck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:00:06pm

re: #761 Erik The Red

WTF? I go away for 20 minutes and 200 comments and the tread looks like a bone field.

You should have seen the gore that preceded it. :p

765 kansas  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:00:17pm

re: #762 Killgore Trout

WWII: Intense Propaganda Posters

Used to be in favor your own country.

766 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:00:24pm

re: #744 Eowyn2

No, it will have been caused by a sink hole.

ShortShit ain't that good.

767 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:00:32pm

re: #753 MandyManners

No shit. I've been posting that factoid for years.

768 Morganfrost  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:00:35pm

Of course Hitler didn't want war. He wanted to rule the world. He also wanted to exterminate the inferior races. He was willing to accept war rather than give up on those goals. Fortunately for most people (other than Pat Buchanan), the democracies of the world decided (in a tragically belated fashion) that they would also accept war rather than allow Hitler to kill or enslave the rest of humanity.

769 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:00:52pm

re: #757 Ben Hur

Or it's the middle of a 50 year "Cold War" when today's BS was looked at in a different, bigger light.

WE DON'T NEED NO STOOPID CONTEXT !

/// ... s*rry, couldn't resist ... :D

770 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:00:55pm

re: #761 Erik The Red

WTF? I go away for 20 minutes and 200 comments and the tread looks like a bone field.

Someone got a timeout due to that. First time I've seen it used.

771 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:00:59pm

Day by day...

Youtube Video
772 jcm  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:01:05pm

re: #734 Buck

I wonder if they cause their own accident, and we see a China Syndrome...does radioactive oil cost more? Or Less?

Radioactive spark plugs will...

If you believe the ads...

Polonium Plugs.

773 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:01:07pm

re: #749 LudwigVanQuixote

And this is why I wish that there were a real center right party to combat such nonsense.

The GOP is not dead.

774 Erik The Red  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:01:12pm

re: #764 BlueCanuck

You should have seen the gore that preceded it. :p

I did. Just did not think that it would degenerate into a "delete" feast.

775 Eowyn2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:01:33pm

re: #761 Erik The Red

WTF? I go away for 20 minutes and 200 comments and the tread looks like a bone field.

Secret Lizard Burial Ground

776 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:01:51pm

Note to self...
Never quote somebody going off the rail in a flame war...
Sorry Charles

777 jcm  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:02:00pm

re: #740 HoosierHoops

It's weird.. I'm a southpaw but I do everything right handed except write...
I play baseball, Golf, Balling, everything right handed...The Hoopster is weird..
/You don't have to agree

*Bites tongue*

;-)

778 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:02:11pm

re: #754 LudwigVanQuixote

How about we make peace? I'm being serious.

Sure; just admit that the current climatological consensus predicts around a single meter rise in sea level in the next century as a result of a 7 degree C global temperature increase, not a three or ten meter rise, and does not predict that all, or even most, of the Greenland and Antarctic ice caps will melt from it.

779 charles_martel  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:02:11pm

Springtime for Hitler and Germany,
Winter for Poland and France...

780 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:02:23pm

re: #774 Erik The Red

I did. Just did not think that it would degenerate into a "delete" feast.

Stinky got a little sick of the baiting that was going on. The instigator appears to have been put in the penalty box for a bit.

781 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:02:30pm

re: #236 Sharmuta

He's Irish, right? Should I be surprised if he's bigoted toward Eastern Europeans?

Can someone start a grass roots campaign to get his excommunicated from the Church? Why should Beck have all the fun?

He's on a list of the Irishmen I wish I did not probably share some scrap of DNA with.

I don't know. Some old Irish dudes I know are casually bigoted toward Poles, but they mean Polish-Americans--the guys on the next block--and if challenged, they'd agree that they're Catholic as well, and not the worst, when you come right down to it.

782 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:02:33pm

re: #773 MandyManners

The GOP is not dead.

Yet. But it's trying it's best to get there.

783 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:02:43pm

Incoming IAEA Chief:

Japanese Delegate in Line to Take Helm of Nuclear Watchdog

The governing board of the International Atomic Energy Agency voted to choose Japan's Yukiya Amano to head the sensitive United Nations watchdog, in another step toward the end of a months-long selection process.

Mr. Amano's selection by a one-vote margin in a secret ballot is a significant success for the group of U.S.-led Western governments that back his candidacy for director general. The IAEA is pivotal to their efforts to counter nuclear programs in Iran and North Korea.

784 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:03:16pm

re: #756 sattv4u2

But you ARE clever Mands. Who but you could come up with classics like "Go piss up a rope", sung to the tume "Go Piss Up A Rope"!

Thank you, thank you very much.

785 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:03:47pm

I always miss the good shit.

786 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:04:01pm

What is ironic about this picture?

[Link: www.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

787 SteveC  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:04:06pm

re: #780 Honorary Yooper

Stinky got a little sick of the baiting that was going on. The instigator appears to have been put in the penalty box for a bit.

20 minutes for fighting!

788 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:04:11pm

re: #778 Salamantis

Sure; just admit that the current climatological consensus predicts around a single meter rise in sea level in the next century as a result of a 7 degree C global temperature increase, not a three or ten meter rise, and does not predict that all, or even most, of the Greenland and Antarctic ice caps will melt from it.

ruh roh!!

789 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:04:25pm
790 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:04:26pm

re: #783 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Incoming IAEA Chief:

Japanese Delegate in Line to Take Helm of Nuclear Watchdog

That last part about the IAEA being pivotal to efforts to counter nuclear programs in Iran and North Korea is a joke, right?

791 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:04:38pm

re: #718 Salamantis

Pat Buchanan is a Father Charles Coughlan Catholic:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

'Nuff said about him; he is unworthy of serious consideration

But historically, several ancient legal codes are older than the Ten Commandments, and their influences on it are obvious:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

So either the Ten Commandments were derived from these prior legal codes, or God spoke to their authors first.

Correct. This information is so well accepted by peer review textual scholars that I would be surprised that it's even an issue anymore.

792 Ojoe  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:04:47pm

Towercam not responding at all now.

Will post it when it comes back.

793 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:05:06pm

re: #767 Kenneth

No shit. I've been posting that factoid for years.

How did he get to head the IAEA.

794 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:05:10pm

re: #563 Coracle

Heh. Not us heretical secular Jews. But yes, that's pretty much a core belief of the faithful Jew.

Well to be fair, I am a BT myself. There are still passages in Torah that I have tremendous problems with personally, and I don't see how Hashem could have said them.

This is stuff I wrestle with personally.

However, saying that, whatever my personal beliefs are does not change the fact that the Tradition is very very clear on the source of the text.

795 freetoken  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:06:18pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout

More crazy here...

Bachmann: We Should "Slit Our Wrists, Be Blood Brothers" To Defeat Health Care Reform

What's interesting is that there is right now an LGF spinoff that is pimping a website that apparently approves of what Ms. Bachmann is doing.

796 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:06:34pm

re: #777 jcm

*Bites tongue*

;-)

I have a right handed trick shot I learned as a little kid...I stand on the left wing at 10 feet and throw the ball behind my back with my right hand with just a touch of spin to bust off the board and into the hole...There are people that just hate me...There is no way without years of practice to make the shot.. I take on all HORSE players with glee.. LOL

797 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:07:25pm

re: #773 MandyManners

The GOP is not dead.

I didn't say it was. However, it is currently mutating into something that is very frightening. It has been drifting far from the Reagan GOP I respected for some time, and honestly, it is possible that the present incarnation gains real traction. That is very scary. That will be a one two knock out for America.

798 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:07:32pm

re: #792 Ojoe

Towercam not responding at all now.

Will post it when it comes back.

Damn. I just got an uinstant e-mail from work statinh that some of our NOC's were in danger (Network Ops Center,,, where fibers optic cables meet and get routed)

799 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:07:52pm

Charles, please delete the limerick at #615. I had no call to make assumptions about anyone's sexual equipment.

Here is a replacement:

Garycooper the sad, clueless troll
Thought he'd just drop a turd in the bowl.
His half-life now tickin',
He's lovin' the lickin'
His attention-starved ego needs. Droll!

By the way, folks, James Joyce has a dog character named "Garryowen" in Ulysses, who imprecates a pub owner as follows:

The curse of my curses
Seven days every day
And seven dry Thursdays
On you, Barney Kiernan,
Has no sup of water
To cool my courage,
And my guts red roaring
After Lowry's lights.

Anyone who thinks Garycooper could learn something from the dog, gimme an upding.

800 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:07:52pm

re: #794 LudwigVanQuixote

Well to be fair, I am a BT myself. There are still passages in Torah that I have tremendous problems with personally, and I don't see how Hashem could have said them.

This is stuff I wrestle with personally.

However, saying that, whatever my personal beliefs are does not change the fact that the Tradition is very very clear on the source of the text.

Tradition is, actual peer reviewed textual criticism a is even clearer.

801 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:08:19pm

re: #795 freetoken

What's interesting is that there is right now an LGF spinoff that is pimping a website that apparently approves of what Ms. Bachmann is doing.

I kinda gave up on the spinoffs. It's a nice feature but much of the material isn't interesting to me.

802 lincolntf  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:08:31pm

Hi all.
Anyone already post this pic from the next generation of "American Royalty"?
She's a real charmer.

803 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:08:44pm

re: #779 charles_martel

Springtime for Hitler and Germany,
Winter for Poland and France...

Seventy years ago today.

804 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:09:00pm

re: #773 MandyManners

The GOP is not dead.

It just smells that way.

805 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:09:07pm

re: #793 MandyManners

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

806 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:09:19pm

re: #633 snowcrash

This is 2 day old slugfest involving quite a few lizards.

Slugfest: 100,000 Alpha Male jackasses in a 25 acre arena filled with whiskey and PCP?

807 kansas  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:09:19pm

re: #797 LudwigVanQuixote

I didn't say it was. However, it is currently mutating into something that is very frightening. It has been drifting far from the Reagan GOP I respected for some time, and honestly, it is possible that the present incarnation gains real traction. That is very scary. That will be a one two knock out for America.

The Democrats seem to be mutating in Jack Booted thugs.

808 Coracle  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:09:30pm

re: #800 Walter L. Newton

Tradition is, actual peer reviewed textual criticism a is even clearer.

Your faith in peer review is touching. I shall remember that.

809 jill e  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:09:45pm

re: #735 SanFranciscoZionist

You had better believe it--and those who came home--a category that includes both my grandfathers, and all the other men in that generation of my family.

This is not to say that opposing any war is an insult to its veterans--but lying about it is.

My uncle was shot down over Germany in 1943 and was part of the German Death March. I think he would have painted Hitler with a different brush than Pat Buchanan.

810 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:09:48pm

re: #778 Salamantis

Sure; just admit that the current climatological consensus predicts around a single meter rise in sea level in the next century as a result of a 7 degree C global temperature increase, not a three or ten meter rise, and does not predict that all, or even most, of the Greenland and Antarctic ice caps will melt from it.

I admit that it will rise by a lot more at the poles than 7 degrees.

As to the rest, I really wish that it wasn't true. But it is.

How about we just agree to keep the discussion scientific if it comes to AGW?

811 jcm  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:10:05pm

re: #802 lincolntf

Hi all.
Anyone already post this pic from the next generation of "American Royalty"?
She's a real charmer.

I do the same thing when I drive by any media types...

/;-P

812 tradewind  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:10:17pm

Yet more proof that
Reid's a douche.
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

813 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:10:33pm

re: #804 Cato the Elder

It just smells that way.

Them Dems are knocking them out of the park these days too...

814 Buck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:10:51pm

re: #750 MandyManners

I wold hope that it doesn't get that far.

Seriously for one minute.

This is a country that doesn't have a refinery, and they NEED one. They say all they want from their program is atomic electrical energy. So far they have not built a power generating plant.. They have not produced even one Watt of atomic energy.

When they do, even if it is a cover for weapons... they better do better than the missile program...

The odds that they screw up power production, and end up with a bad / cracked weld somewhere along the line are pretty good.

How far will an out of control rod or two go? How does it have to go to hit oil and gas?

Maybe it is just a fantasy, and let me say I consider nuclear power to be the safest and most eco-friendly source of power we’ve got. IF BUILT PROPERLY.

815 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:10:57pm

re: #800 Walter L. Newton

Tradition is, actual peer reviewed textual criticism a is even clearer.

Walter, how many got Stinky's attention so far this thread... How about not picking a fight?

816 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:11:11pm

re: #789 buzzsawmonkey

In keeping with the playwright pun theme--and the squabble above--it looks like we are being treated to a performance of Timeout of Athens.

Too bad it happened. It's Aeschylus.

817 tradewind  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:12:10pm

re: #799 Cato the Elder

As long as you're editing, why not check cadence and meter...
Just saying.

818 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:12:11pm
819 yochanan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:12:35pm

re: #1 Ojoe

BuchananYou Moron

RAT PUKEANAN YOU CAN KISS MY TOUCKAS.

820 kansas  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:13:41pm

Hitler didn't want war. Remember that piece of paper he gave Chamberlain?/

821 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:13:47pm

re: #807 kansas

The Democrats seem to be mutating in Jack Booted thugs.

Yeah take the worst of the Dems... Imagine that CODE PINK is coming to take you over...

Now imagine that the 4409 guys are getting restive...

Which poses a more real threat?

The worst that CODE PINK can do is be whiny pathetic and very annoying. I suppose there is some chance of injury from performance art, but how does that compare to long arms?

822 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:14:03pm

re: #815 LudwigVanQuixote

Walter, how many got Stinky's attention so far this thread... How about not picking a fight?

Will you please GROW A PAIR. If ANYONE posts ANYTHING even remotely opposed to you you get your panties in a wad!

I know ,,I know ,, let me beat you to it

"STAY OUT OF IT! "

823 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:14:03pm

re: #815 LudwigVanQuixote

Walter, how many got Stinky's attention so far this thread... How about not picking a fight?

Picking what fight. You are talking about Moses and the texts, you are always striving for a scientific point of view about matters, I see history, textual criticisms, religion, archeology, all those subjects as backed by science. For me faith has nothing to do with it.

So, what fight am I picking, because I agree with Salamantis that the torah has most of it's textual roots in other, more ancient writings.

That's picking a fight. You brought the topic up.

824 tradewind  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:14:13pm

Buchanan's link's been removed... did he really say that?
I knew he was headed that way, but day-um...

825 sffilk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:14:14pm

re: #420 Cato the Elder

They wouldn't stop visiting, so the last time I came to the door nekkid. It put two of them in the psych ward.

FANTASTIC!

826 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:14:19pm

re: #818 buzzsawmonkey

Sometimes, you need to Euripedes people a new one.

Better to stay calm and have someone Medea ate the situation

827 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:14:20pm

re: #817 tradewind

As long as you're editing, why not check cadence and meter...
Just saying.

Because they're fine.

Why don't you teach your grandmother to suck eggs?

Because she already knows how.

828 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:15:00pm

re: #818 buzzsawmonkey

Sometimes, you need to Euripedes people a new one.

And sometimes, you just need to say frankly Medea, I just don't give a damn.

829 kansas  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:15:07pm

re: #821 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah take the worst of the Dems... Imagine that CODE PINK is coming to take you over...

Now imagine that the 4409 guys are getting restive...

Which poses a more real threat?

The worst that CODE PINK can do is be whiny pathetic and very annoying. I suppose there is some chance of injury from performance art, but how does that compare to long arms?

Code Pink?

Youtube Video
830 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:15:23pm

re: #821 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah take the worst of the Dems... Imagine that CODE PINK is coming to take you over...

Now imagine that the 4409 guys are getting restive...

Which poses a more real threat?

The worst that CODE PINK can do is be whiny pathetic and very annoying. I suppose there is some chance of injury from performance art, but how does that compare to long arms?

Every time somebody mentions CODE PINK BUY AHAVA PRODUCTS!

831 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:15:56pm

re: #828 Creeping Eruption

And sometimes, you just need to say frankly Medea, I just don't give a damn.

That was sooo...41 seconds ago.
/ :)

832 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:16:16pm

re: #824 tradewind

Looks like RCP pulled the article. It's probably still up on Town Hall or other sites.

833 MJ  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:16:51pm

Iran 'has new nuclear proposal'

Iran has prepared a new nuclear proposal and is ready to resume talks on its nuclear programme, according to media reports.

The Islamic Republic's chief nuclear negotiator, Saeed Jalili, was quoted making the claim on Iranian television...

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Of course, this just another in a long line of stalling tactics. And, of course, the West including Obama will fall for it since they don't really want to confront the problem head-on.

834 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:17:01pm

re: #830 Alouette

Every time somebody mentions CODE PINK BUY AHAVA PRODUCTS!

I came back with quite a few for my lady the last time I was in Israel.

835 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:17:01pm

re: #810 LudwigVanQuixote

I admit that it will rise by a lot more at the poles than 7 degrees.

As to the rest, I really wish that it wasn't true. But it is.

How about we just agree to keep the discussion scientific if it comes to AGW?

Okay; if you can restrain yourself from indulging in gratuitous ad hominems, I will not feel compelled to respond in kind A cessation of appeals to your own self-alleged authority in the absence of evidence for your contentions would also be nice.

But I have been sticking to the science. Which is why I am right; the current climatological consensus supports my position and not yours, as elaborated at greater length here:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

836 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:17:02pm

Here it is:

The great secret of the IAEA director is his wife, Aida Elkachef, who is also his political mentor. When the first information surfaced that his wife is reportedly of Iranian descent, El Baradei denied this, but he refused to say what nationality she is. In order to diminish somehow the impact of that revelation, the Egyptian made the painful confession that his girl friend when he was a Ph.D. candidate in New York was reportedly Jewish. New revelations have shown that Aida Elkachef is a thoroughbred Iranian. More, El Baradei's wife is the cousin of Ayatollah Mohamad Reza Makhdavi Kani, one of the hard liners in the Tehran regime and the confidant of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the supreme spiritual leader and dictator of Iran . El Baradei's cousin by marriage has served as interim prime minister of Iran , as interior minister, as a member of the Revolution Council, and so on.

Mohammad-Reza Mahdavi Kani

Currently, he is the secretary of Tehran's Combatant Clergies' Association (Jame-e-y-e-Rowhaniat-e-Mobarez), president of Imam Sadiq University and also by the order of Imam Khomeini he is responsible for Tehran's Marvi religious school.

837 DaddyG  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:17:06pm

re: #800 Walter L. Newton

Tradition is, actual peer reviewed textual criticism a is even clearer.

The big criticism with peer review for Moses is all the nepotism on the review committee. /

838 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:17:30pm

re: #819 yochanan

RAT PUKEANAN YOU CAN KISS MY TOUCKAS.

[Link: www.ratemyeverything.net...]

;)

839 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:17:39pm

re: #821 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah take the worst of the Dems... Imagine that CODE PINK is coming to take you over...

Now imagine that the 4409 guys are getting restive...

Which poses a more real threat?

The worst that CODE PINK can do is be whiny pathetic and very annoying. I suppose there is some chance of injury from performance art, but how does that compare to long arms?

Both are tiny, tiny minorities and will never take an active, let alone leadership role in any Congressional seat or Presidential administration. Calling Code Pink mainstream and tainting the entire Democrat Party with their activities is not fair, just as it is the opposite with the 4409 guys. They are not the Republican Party. They are just riding along, not driving.

840 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:17:47pm

re: #831 LGoPs

That was sooo...41 seconds ago.
/ :)

I'm getting killed here. Logged in but says I am logged out. Cant up ding (would have given you one if I could.)

841 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:17:56pm

re: #818 buzzsawmonkey

Sometimes, you need to Euripedes people a new one.

You don't need a new one. You're just being Juvenal.

842 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:18:09pm

Yes, RealClearPolitics did pull Buchanan's article. Good for them.

Now what's wrong with all the other "conservative" websites that published it?

843 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:18:20pm

re: #818 buzzsawmonkey

Sometimes, you need to Euripedes people a new one.

I'd love to make one from Sophocles, but that damned "les" keeps getting in the way, so I'll just phoc off.

844 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:18:28pm

Google: Did Hitler Want War?
Town Hall, WND, CNS still have the article posted.

845 Dianna  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:18:34pm

I'm going to go lie down. It must just be my headache that's making everyone seem nasty and arrogant.

846 yochanan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:18:52pm

re: #37 Charles

FASCIST COMMIES AT LEAST ON ANTI SEMITISM IN ITS MODERN FORM OF ANTI ZI0NISM ARE ALL THE SAME.

847 kansas  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:18:57pm

re: #821 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah take the worst of the Dems... Imagine that CODE PINK is coming to take you over...

Now imagine that the 4409 guys are getting restive...

Which poses a more real threat?

The worst that CODE PINK can do is be whiny pathetic and very annoying. I suppose there is some chance of injury from performance art, but how does that compare to long arms?

This isn't whiny or annoying.

Youtube Video
848 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:19:02pm

re: #842 Charles

Yes, RealClearPolitics did pull Buchanan's article. Good for them.

Now what's wrong with all the other "conservative" websites that published it?

They probably didn't have time to hide it yet. Patience.

849 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:19:04pm

re: #836 Kenneth

Link: [Link: 74.125.95.132...]

850 sffilk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:19:17pm

re: #504 brazilofmux


I agree that the networks keep him on as representative of the left. I remember once when he was on McLaughlin's show, after the usual banter, they let Pat get into his rabid pitch while the lights dimmed and everyone else walked off the stage. The message was that he stood alone.

I don't remember that one happening. By any chance, do you recall what he said to cause this?

851 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:19:22pm

re: #846 yochanan

FASCIST COMMIES AT LEAST ON ANTI SEMITISM IN ITS MODERN FORM OF ANTI ZI0NISM ARE ALL THE SAME.

[Link: www.ratemyeverything.net...]

Just in case you missed it.

852 tradewind  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:19:33pm

re: #827 Cato the Elder

Cato, it's just that you're such a perfectionist. I thought you'd be all over that.
/My grandmothers are both vegans, I'd never even ask./

853 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:19:58pm

Letters from my Grandfathers family in Holland told of thier fears for Eastern Europe long before this ever went down...He and others made sure they were outta there by 1932 or so...

As far Spat Puchanann...Makes ya want to BUY a BUS
just to throw his ignant ass under it!

854 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:19:58pm

re: #840 Creeping Eruption

I'm getting killed here. Logged in but says I am logged out. Cant up ding (would have given you one if I could.)

Eez OK. My system is quirky too.

855 Coracle  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:20:16pm

re: #835 Salamantis

The core problem is that one meter is bad enough. And it would quite totally suck to be wrong about this.

856 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:20:35pm

re: #854 LGoPs

Eez OK. My system is quirky too.

There. Got a ding in.

857 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:20:53pm

Why don't we just get it over with and appoint buchanan as our ambassador to hamastan? he has much in common with nasrallah, bin laden and zawahiri.

858 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:20:54pm

re: #823 Walter L. Newton

Picking what fight. You are talking about Moses and the texts, you are always striving for a scientific point of view about matters, I see history, textual criticisms, religion, archeology, all those subjects as backed by science. For me faith has nothing to do with it.

So, what fight am I picking, because I agree with Salamantis that the torah has most of it's textual roots in other, more ancient writings.

That's picking a fight. You brought the topic up.

NO Walter, you were trying to snark. You have quite the habit of trying to redefine yourself. Please Walter. You hate all religion. You hold it in contempt. There is no point discussing it with you.

You are free to hold all religion in contempt. That is your right.

However, I have no desire to defend all faith with you in a fruitless exercise. You would not hear me if I tried and you would not care to even try to listen.

Now, how about you just stop with the sniping. I certainly don't seek you out to snipe.

859 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:21:11pm

re: #836 Kenneth

Here it is:

No conflict of interest there.

860 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:21:42pm

re: #826 LGoPs

Medea

re: #828 Creeping Eruption

Medea

This is turning into a Greek Chorus.

861 yochanan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:21:58pm

re: #821 LudwigVanQuixote

BOTH types of extremism have murdered people
the end justifies the means is one of the things that stalinism and fascism have in common as well as there rabid anti zionism

862 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:22:21pm

re: #847 kansas

This isn't whiny or annoying.

That's not CODE PINK.

However, this CODE PINKETTE should never have been allowed to get in the face of the Secretary of State.

863 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:22:23pm

re: #845 Dianna

I'm going to go lie down. It must just be my headache that's making everyone seem nasty and arrogant.

(((Dianna)))

864 yochanan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:22:55pm

re: #846 yochanan

FASCIST COMMIES AT LEAST ON ANTI SEMITISM IN ITS MODERN FORM OF ANTI ZI0NISM ARE ALL THE SAME.

FASCIST & COMMIES or add a ','

865 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:23:02pm

re: #860 pre-Boomer Marine brat

This is turning into a Greek Chorus.

Of The Frogs?

866 DaddyG  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:23:19pm

re: #821 LudwigVanQuixote

You conveniently forgot about the idiots who bombed the recruiting offices. But go ahead and argue which side of the moronic convergence is better. I've restocked my popcorn bucket.

867 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:23:35pm

re: #860 pre-Boomer Marine brat

This is turning into a Greek Chorus.

Horace I can see this is about the Romans...

868 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:23:39pm

re: #845 Dianna

I'm going to go lie down. It must just be my headache that's making everyone seem nasty and arrogant.

{Dianna}

869 kansas  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:23:40pm

re: #862 Alouette

That's not CODE PINK.

However, this CODE PINKETTE should never have been allowed to get in the face of the Secretary of State.

She wouldn't have if Rice were a Democrat.

870 snowcrash  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:23:51pm

re: #845 Dianna
Hope you feel better soon. Keep some distance from "your male" in case it is flu-like.

871 tradewind  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:23:52pm

re: #842 Charles

Wonder what Morning Joe's gonna do about this one?
It's the only part of MSNBC worth watching. Never figured out how Buchanan made it on there with Mika and Barnicle...

872 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:23:52pm

Hey, Lizards, I see you put me in the Top 10! (blows kisses)

However I can't take credit for that Pat Buchanan joke. It's an oldie.

873 Athos  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:24:39pm

re: #842 Charles

Yes, RealClearPolitics did pull Buchanan's article. Good for them.

Now what's wrong with all the other "conservative" websites that published it?

Excellent question. Frankly if they don't pull the article, or better yet, invite PB to write elsewhere (perhaps WND?), real conservatives need to start cancelling their subs to those mags and finding other sites to frequent. (I cancelled by Townhall Mag sub months ago because of crap that PB was spewing.)

Pat belongs in the hinterlands with Laup Nor, Alex Jones, etc.

874 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:24:59pm

re: #388 Kenneth

I believe the Celts originated from central Europe, not India.

One of the proto-Celtic groups came up through Europe from North Africa, IIRC.

What the hell, we're all from Africa if you go back far enough.

875 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:25:38pm

re: #858 LudwigVanQuixote

Ludwig, if you make a statement I don't agree with, I will comment on it. Plain and simple. You are at liberty to not debate or converse with me about the subject, or you can complain about me even engaging you in your comment or you can try to answer me.

And if Charles deems that I crossed a line, then I will be told, put on timeout or possibly have my account blocked.

And this is the same consideration I give all other Lizards on a daily basis and they give this to me in return.

But don't tell me what I can or can't respond to or how I should or should not respond to a comment or when I am allowed to respond or not respond.

876 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:26:01pm

Plato was a comic poet,
Though many people do not know it.
The stuff he wrote for Socrates
Still still puts the laugh to sophistries.

877 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:26:08pm
878 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:26:22pm

re: #835 Salamantis

Okay; if you can restrain yourself from indulging in gratuitous ad hominems, I will not feel compelled to respond in kind A cessation of appeals to your own self-alleged authority in the absence of evidence for your contentions would also be nice.

But I have been sticking to the science. Which is why I am right; the current climatological consensus supports my position and not yours, as elaborated at greater length here:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

OK this is an edited repost with no insults and just science. Please acknowledge the arguments.

And you have yet to falsify a single calculation in my conclusive mathematical demonstration that your ten-meter catastrophic Noahide Flood within the century scenario is more completely crammed with bs... so don't pretend that you have.

Your calculation assumes that ice at the poles melts at a constant rate at all times. Therefore it is wrong. The poles do not melt at a constant rate. They also refreeze with the seasons and are driven to melt by multiple forcings with feedbacks.

Therefore your "conclusive mathematics" is not conclusive because the math you are using does not apply. You are wrong because you are using the wrong math to compare the wrong system with reality. Simply loudly shouting that 2+2=17 and then yelling that this is conclusive does not for good mathematics make.

As to your experiment.

All you had was ice melting by convection. There is a lot more than just convection in the real system.

What did you use for solar forcing (the sun is the ultimate driver in the real system)? Nothing.

What did you use for the seasons? Nothing

What did you use to include the feedback from albedo loss?
Nothing.

What did you use to include the feedback from ocean saturation? Nothing

What did you use to include the feedback from trapped methane and CO2 from melting the ice? Nothing.

What did you use to include the feedback from increased industrial output?
Nothing.

What did you use to include the feedback from changing cloud/weather patterns? Nothing.

Did you account for geography? No.

Did you account for currents in air and ocean? No.

Did you account for the fact that the real ice system breaks up in complicated and punctuated ways? No.

You then go on to claim that the Earth is cooling. This is not true and it has been debunked many times here.

879 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:26:29pm

re: #874 SanFranciscoZionist

One of the proto-Celtic groups came up through Europe from North Africa, IIRC.

What the hell, we're all from Africa if you go back far enough.

Speak for yourself, human.

880 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:26:42pm

re: #855 Coracle

The core problem is that one meter is bad enough. And it would quite totally suck to be wrong about this.

It would totally suck to destroy our global economy in order to prevent something that wouldn't happen anyway, or would do less damage than draconian preventative measures. Right now, around 80 cm is the upper end, and the lower end is around 10 - 20 cm; slightly less than half a meter (sdtill twice the rias we had last century) is the current sensible moderate climatological consensus center.

881 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:26:54pm

re: #852 tradewind

Cato, it's just that you're such a perfectionist. I thought you'd be all over that.
/My grandmothers are both vegans, I'd never even ask./

Joyce is my master. Even his errors are better than my perfections.

882 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:26:58pm

re: #875 Walter L. Newton

Now you've done it!

883 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:27:15pm

re: #876 Cato the Elder

Plato was a comic poet,
Though many people do not know it.
The stuff he wrote for Socrates
Still still puts the laugh to sophistries.

Immanuel Kant was a real piss-ant
who was very rarely stable
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
who could think you under the table
David Hume could out-consume
Schopenhauer and Hegel
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
who was just as sloshed as Schlegel

There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach ya
'bout the raising of the wrist
Socrates himself was permanently pissed

John Stewart Mill of his own free will
on half a pint of shandy was particularly ill
Plato they say could stick it away
'alf a crate of whisky every day
Aristotle Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle
Hobbes was fond of his dram
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart:
"I drink, therefore I am"

Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed

-Monty Python

884 JamesTKirk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:27:32pm

re: #879 Kosh's Shadow

Speak for yourself, human.

Get the hell out of our galaxy!

885 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:27:49pm

re: #866 DaddyG

You conveniently forgot about the idiots who bombed the recruiting offices. But go ahead and argue which side of the moronic convergence is better. I've restocked my popcorn bucket.

It is not a matter of better, rather a matter of current. I agree that recruiting centers were bombed during Vietnam.

40 years later we have a different bunch of crazies to contend with.

886 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:28:25pm

re: #877 buzzsawmonkey

Alouette: you don't happen to have any inexpensive yet attractive yads on your site, do you? I didn't find any, but I may not have been looking in the right place.

On the Bar Mitzvah page there are some Emanuel yads.

887 Gus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:28:29pm

Over at Townhall, Pat Buchanan's garbage is listed under:

Today's Conservative Opinion

888 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:28:54pm

re: #884 JamesTKirk

Get the hell out of our galaxy!

The mighty Vorlon ship charges its tentacles, and the Enterprise finds itself back at Earth

889 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:29:30pm

re: #887 Gus 802

Over at Townhall, Pat Buchanan's garbage is listed under:

Today's Conservative Opinion

Along with some classic musings by Charles Lindbergh?

890 snowcrash  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:29:39pm

re: #874 SanFranciscoZionist
Did you see the Natl Geo special Monday night on the Genographic Project? It was fascinating.

891 DaddyG  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:30:15pm

re: #876 Cato the Elder

Plato was a comic poet,
Though many people do not know it.
The stuff he wrote for Socrates
Still still puts the laugh to sophistries.


Socrates mind was a tank
but his body rotted and stank
it wasn't his thinking
that did the stinking
so it must have been something he drank

892 Joshua Cohen  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:30:17pm

Where are all the grown ups?
I do not see the Republicans win any election with people like this.

893 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:30:21pm

re: #889 Cato the Elder

Along with some classic musings by Charles Lindbergh?

with links to back issues of the Dearborn Independent?

894 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:30:23pm

re: #867 experiencedtraveller

Horace I can see this is about the Romans...

That's an example of Virgil Reality.

/yeah, he wasn't a playwright ... now I feel like Aeneid-iot !

895 Gus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:30:41pm

re: #889 Cato the Elder

Along with some classic musings by Charles Lindbergh?

Looks like it's right above Chuck Norris.

Seriously.

896 Coracle  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:30:49pm

re: #880 Salamantis

It would totally suck to destroy our global economy in order to prevent something that wouldn't happen anyway, or would do less damage than draconian preventative measures. Right now, around 80 cm is the upper end, and the lower end is around 10 - 20 cm; slightly less than half a meter (sdtill twice the rias we had last century) is the current sensible moderate climatological consensus center.

You're very exacting about the min and max predictions, yet fast and loose with the hyperbolic "destroy our global economy". I would prefer to see an opponent to action pay at least the same order of magnitude of attention and detail to the costs he is trying to defray as to the threat he is trying to minimize.

897 sffilk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:30:53pm

re: #514 Summer

Gnocchi with a puttanesca sauce. =)

Nah - amartriciana instead.

898 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:31:10pm

re: #855 Coracle

The core problem is that one meter is bad enough. And it would quite totally suck to be wrong about this.

And the argument is that 1 meter is on the low end of predictions when the Canadian and Siberian Bogs, and punctuated ice break ups are taken into account.

How anyone can think that a one meter would be just fine is beyond me, and the argument also never takes shifted growing patterns (which we are already seeing) into account.

899 JamesTKirk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:31:32pm

re: #892 Joshua Cohen

Where are all the grown ups?
I do not see the Republicans win any election with people like this.

The only hope the Republicans have is that there aren't any grownups on the other side either.

That's little relief for the rest of us who are hoping to see grownups back in charge, mind you.

900 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:31:58pm

re: #513 Alouette

Pacifists went to Iraq to be human shields for Saddam.

Only because the U.S. was going in. During the war with Iran, say, they didn't feel the need. As far as I know.

901 Erik The Red  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:32:04pm

re: #892 Joshua Cohen

Where are all the grown ups?
I do not see the Republicans win any election with people like this.


Good Question.
Jack Johnson - Good People

902 Russkilitlover  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:32:23pm

Late to the thread. Lots going on in Russkilitlover land.

Actually, Hitler did not want war...with England. Since the days of Kaiser Wilhelm, there was a misunderstanding of the German elites vis-a-vis England. They always kinda/sorta, thought that the English would be simpatico with their nationalistic tendencies and empiric ambitions. They were always wrong, but they continually held on to the idea that England would be, eventually, in their corner.

903 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:33:12pm

The third site on Google with asshole's article is antiwar.com.

904 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:33:40pm

Glad to see that Real Clear Politics has removed the article, I was surprised that they posted it in the first place.

905 JamesTKirk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:33:47pm

re: #900 SanFranciscoZionist

Only because the U.S. was going in. During the war with Iran, say, they didn't feel the need. As far as I know.

That's because they weren't pacifists. They were anti-American. There is a huge difference.

The people who call themselves "pacifists" only seem to oppose wars in which the US (or our allies, like Israel) is involved, and somehow only attempt to protest or hinder the US (or...) side.

906 Buck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:34:28pm

re: #903 MandyManners

Of course they are not really anti war, they are just on the other side.

907 JamesTKirk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:34:38pm

re: #902 Russkilitlover

Late to the thread. Lots going on in Russkilitlover land.

Actually, Hitler did not want war...with England. Since the days of Kaiser Wilhelm, there was a misunderstanding of the German elites vis-a-vis England. They always kinda/sorta, thought that the English would be simpatico with their nationalistic tendencies and empiric ambitions. They were always wrong, but they continually held on to the idea that England would be, eventually, in their corner.

There were a lot of British elites that felt the same way.

908 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:34:40pm

re: #529 HoosierHoops

Wow..Courage and morals in the face of Danger...
Did the Rabbi make it?

Amazingly, yes. He survived the war and died in London in 1956.

909 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:34:51pm

re: #895 Gus 802

Looks like it's right above Chuck Norris.

Seriously.

I am reading the comments under Pat's Hitler piece...looks like most of them (not all of them) are calling Pat an idiot.

910 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:34:54pm

re: #903 MandyManners

The third site on Google with asshole's article is antiwar.com.

That's just great.

I can't recall whether I bought my first gun because it was fun, or because I had decided that pacifism sucked. Either way, both statements are still true.

911 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:35:12pm

re: #905 JamesTKirk

That's because they weren't pacifists. They were anti-American. There is a huge difference.

The people who call themselves "pacifists" only seem to oppose wars in which the US (or our allies, like Israel) is involved, and somehow only attempt to protest or hinder the US (or...) side.

I saw a car with the bumper sticker: I am already opposed to the next war.

I am not into vandalism, but . . for a fleeting moment . . .

912 JamesTKirk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:35:58pm

Speaking of Google, what's happened to GMail?

913 Russkilitlover  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:36:18pm

re: #883 Mad Al-Jaffee

"The Philosophy Song" by the philosophy department at the University of Walla Mandu!

My fave! I sing it at the top of my lungs...in my car...alone, of course.

914 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:36:43pm

re: #912 JamesTKirk

Speaking of Google, what's happened to GMail?

Whats wrong? Its not getting to the right Gspot today?///

915 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:37:14pm

re: #894 pre-Boomer Marine brat

That's an example of Virgil Reality.

/yeah, he wasn't a playwright ... now I feel like Aeneid-iot !

Its a free country. You can Livy any way you want.

916 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:37:22pm

Heh. Over at the S.F. Chronicle, they have an article about Michelle Duggar becoming pregnant with her 19th child, and as always happens on liberal sites when the topic of the Duggars is raised, the commenters immediately start suggesting John-Holdren-esque solutions to the Duggar "problem" -- i.e. "There should be a limit on the number of kids people can have," "Large families are environmentally unsustainable and should not be allowed," and my favorite so far:

"They need to be put to sleep...planet rapers."

917 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:37:38pm

re: #888 Kosh's Shadow

The mighty Vorlon ship charges its tentacles, and the Enterprise finds itself back at Earth

Meanwhile, the battle barge slips into position and prepares the bombardment cannon and the boarding torpedoes.

/My genre beats your genre!

918 Gus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:37:59pm

re: #909 Desert Dog

I am reading the comments under Pat's Hitler piece...looks like most of them (not all of them) are calling Pat an idiot.

Looks like there's quite a few.

I can't help but notice that he has 3 out of 5 check marks. Jack Kemp's piece on Lincoln from February got 2 out of 5. I find this rather curious.

919 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:38:47pm

re: #916 zombie

Liberal tolerance is so much fun. It's always "tolerance for me, but not for thee".

920 Buck  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:38:56pm

re: #912 JamesTKirk

Speaking of Google, what's happened to GMail?

I love gmail. I think it is the best thing since email.

921 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:39:00pm

re: #916 zombie

I've read some of the DU discussions about them. Funny how many of them really are not pro CHOICE when it comes to families like the Duggars.

922 DaddyG  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:39:03pm

re: #885 LudwigVanQuixote

It is not a matter of better, rather a matter of current. I agree that recruiting centers were bombed during Vietnam.

40 years later we have a different bunch of crazies to contend with.

Is March 6, 2008 recent enough to be current?

923 Russkilitlover  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:39:08pm

re: #913 Russkilitlover

"The Philosophy Song" by the philosophy department at the University of Walla !Mandu Malloo

I think...

924 JamesTKirk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:39:17pm

re: #914 Creeping Eruption

Whats wrong? Its not getting to the right Gspot today?///

GMail seems to be down again.

925 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:39:27pm

re: #912 JamesTKirk

Speaking of Google, what's happened to GMail?

I tried Gmail. It handled incoming mail in a very weird way. It stacked RE's. Weird. Made me miss emails. Had to dump em.

926 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:39:46pm

I wasn't going to even read the article, since I've already read his tripe in the past, and I suspected this is not anything much different, but I just read it anyway, and I was right.

Is this guy totally clueless? No, I don't think so, but he certainly has a way to minimize the complexities of the history that was taking place at that time.

I will not link to the article, but, this little excerpt onlone is worthy of a "what, me worry" award...

"The German-Polish war had come out of a quarrel over a town the size of Ocean City, Md."

That's like saying the World Trade Center came tumbling down because it was in the way of two planes.

Anyone that has spent 10 minutes with "World War II for the Complete Idiot" would be able to tear this sentence of his apart.

927 Erik The Red  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:39:50pm

re: #910 Cato the Elder

That's just great.

I can't recall whether I bought my first gun because it was fun, or because I had decided that pacifism sucked. Either way, both statements are still true.

First we agree on our like for food. Now our like for guns. What's next? :)))

928 Coracle  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:40:16pm

re: #916 zombie

Just curious, what is your personal reaction to that story?

929 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:40:20pm

re: #917 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Meanwhile, the battle barge slips into position and prepares the bombardment cannon and the boarding torpedoes.

/My genre beats your genre!

I Dream Of Genre

Image: eden_sp01.jpg

930 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:40:43pm

I do want to make it clear that all ditties, limericks, rhymed reasons, unreasonable rhymes, etc., posted here by me are my own, and implicitly copyrighted, unless otherwise specified. There may be a book someday.

931 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:40:44pm

re: #927 Erik The Red

First we agree on our like for food. Now our like for guns. What's next? :)))

Ain't gonna touch that with a ten foot pole :)

932 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:41:00pm

re: #888 Kosh's Shadow

The mighty Vorlon ship charges its tentacles, and the Enterprise finds itself back at Earth

Let's put a fight between a high end Enterprise vs. a Shadow crab.

If Kirk were in command it would be a good fight...

Alas, I fear the Picard would still be composing a lawyer letter to complain that the Shadows were rude while the nacelles were being cut off...

933 JamesTKirk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:41:18pm

re: #921 Mad Al-Jaffee

I've read some of the DU discussions about them. Funny how many of them really are not pro CHOICE when it comes to families like the Duggars.

Liberals are only pro-choice if you select the correct choice.

934 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:41:22pm

re: #916 zombie

Heh. Over at the S.F. Chronicle, they have an article about Michelle Duggar becoming pregnant with her 19th child, and as always happens on liberal sites when the topic of the Duggars is raised, the commenters immediately start suggesting John-Holdren-esque solutions to the Duggar "problem" -- i.e. "There should be a limit on the number of kids people can have," "Large families are environmentally unsustainable and should not be allowed," and my favorite so far:

"They need to be put to sleep...planet rapers."

I don't get the vitriol either.

It's not like the Duggars are on welfare, and WE'RE supporting them.

Though I think the libs would support them then.

They don't like the Duggars because of their Christianity.

935 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:41:46pm

re: #905 JamesTKirk

That's because they weren't pacifists. They were anti-American. There is a huge difference.

The people who call themselves "pacifists" only seem to oppose wars in which the US (or our allies, like Israel) is involved, and somehow only attempt to protest or hinder the US (or...) side.

It goes back to the days of Hanoi Jane. Her fervor for the people seemed to erode and fade away when the Khmer Rouge were committing genocide. I might have been able to generate a little respect if she'd been consistent and protested them as vehemently as she did her own country. She did not and earned my eternal contempt.

936 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:41:46pm

re: #930 Cato the Elder

I do want to make it clear that all ditties, limericks, rhymed reasons, unreasonable rhymes, etc., posted here by me are my own, and implicitly copyrighted, unless otherwise specified. There may be a book someday.

Anything you post here is the intellectual property of Charles, I believe.

Confirm (Buzz)?

937 JamesTKirk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:41:59pm

re: #931 Walter L. Newton

Ain't gonna touch that with a ten foot pole :)

You leave my ten-foot pole out of this.

938 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:42:15pm

re: #913 Russkilitlover

"The Philosophy Song" by the philosophy department at the University of Walla Mandu!

My fave! I sing it at the top of my lungs...in my car...alone, of course.

That's Woolre: #917 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Meanwhile, the battle barge slips into position and prepares the bombardment cannon and the boarding torpedoes.

/My genre beats your genre!

They are deflected by the living skin of the Vorlon ship and end up wasting their energies in empty space.
Since we can just make it up as we go along, as long as it has some semblence of consistency with the source.

But remember, I'm Kosh's Shadow, so watch it if you don't want to become the intelligence at the center of a Shadow warcrab.

939 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:42:31pm

re: #912 JamesTKirk

Speaking of Google, what's happened to GMail?

I can't get it on my PC, either. Oddly, though, it comes through just fine on my iPhone.

940 jill e  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:42:33pm

My question is what happened to Pat Buchanan? Was he always this way and just good at hiding it? My impression of him years ago was not that of a Hilter apologist.

941 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:42:41pm

re: #932 LudwigVanQuixote

Let's put a fight between a high end Enterprise vs. a Shadow crab.

If Kirk were in command it would be a good fight...

Alas, I fear the Picard would still be composing a lawyer letter to complain that the Shadows were rude while the nacelles were being cut off...

"Number one, take the helm. I seem to have gone number two."

942 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:42:41pm

re: #927 Erik The Red

First we agree on our like for food. Now our like for guns. What's next? :)))

Everything is on the table, except Madame Sarkozy. I called first dibs.

943 snowcrash  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:42:44pm

re: #928 Coracle
My unasked for personal reaction to a womean who has delivered 19 babies is that she must have awful stress incontinence. lol

944 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:42:48pm

re: #927 Erik The Red

First we agree on our like for food. Now our like for guns. What's next? :)))

I could be a troublemaker and ask both of you, Cato and Erik, to see if your opinions on Sarah Palin concur, but I won't.
/

945 Gus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:42:55pm

re: #916 zombie

Heh. Over at the S.F. Chronicle, they have an article about Michelle Duggar becoming pregnant with her 19th child, and as always happens on liberal sites when the topic of the Duggars is raised, the commenters immediately start suggesting John-Holdren-esque solutions to the Duggar "problem" -- i.e. "There should be a limit on the number of kids people can have," "Large families are environmentally unsustainable and should not be allowed," and my favorite so far:

"They need to be put to sleep...planet rapers."

First I ever head of these Duggars. I'm sure glad I don't watch TV.

People need to mind there own business.

946 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:43:02pm

re: #936 Walter L. Newton

Anything you post here is the intellectual property of Charles, I believe.

Confirm (Buzz)?

I suspect much of this mornings, he'd rather not own.

947 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:43:02pm

re: #939 Occasional Reader

I can't get it on my PC, either. Oddly, though, it comes through just fine on my iPhone.

And it's working fine on my toaster.

948 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:43:02pm

re: #922 DaddyG

Is March 6, 2008 recent enough to be current?

ancient history. Got something in say a noon, today??,

949 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:43:14pm

re: #916 zombie

Heh. Over at the S.F. Chronicle, they have an article about Michelle Duggar becoming pregnant with her 19th child, and as always happens on liberal sites when the topic of the Duggars is raised, the commenters immediately start suggesting John-Holdren-esque solutions to the Duggar "problem" -- i.e. "There should be a limit on the number of kids people can have," "Large families are environmentally unsustainable and should not be allowed," and my favorite so far:

"They need to be put to sleep...planet rapers."

Future death panel members!

950 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:43:39pm

re: #916 zombie

Heh. Over at the S.F. Chronicle, they have an article about Michelle Duggar becoming pregnant with her 19th child, and as always happens on liberal sites when the topic of the Duggars is raised, the commenters immediately start suggesting John-Holdren-esque solutions to the Duggar "problem" -- i.e. "There should be a limit on the number of kids people can have," "Large families are environmentally unsustainable and should not be allowed," and my favorite so far:

"They need to be put to sleep...planet rapers."

19 kids? 19 kids?
Gotta link Zombie at the SF Chron? This I gotta read...If you have 19 kids i hope the hell you are the world's best parents..
I'll withhold judgement till i read the link

951 Erik The Red  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:43:51pm

re: #939 Occasional Reader

I can't get it on my PC, either. Oddly, though, it comes through just fine on my iPhone.

Odd. Same here.

952 JamesTKirk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:44:09pm

re: #935 LGoPs

What does LGoPs stand for, BTW?

953 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:44:12pm

re: #924 JamesTKirk

GMail seems to be down again.

It works with pop3 access and with the "check mail" function in the Gtalk program right now. It's just going to the normal web interface where it tells you to pound sand.

954 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:44:26pm

re: #926 Walter L. Newton

I wasn't going to even read the article, since I've already read his tripe in the past, and I suspected this is not anything much different, but I just read it anyway, and I was right.

Is this guy totally clueless? No, I don't think so, but he certainly has a way to minimize the complexities of the history that was taking place at that time.

I will not link to the article, but, this little excerpt onlone is worthy of a "what, me worry" award...

"The German-Polish war had come out of a quarrel over a town the size of Ocean City, Md."

That's like saying the World Trade Center came tumbling down because it was in the way of two planes.

Anyone that has spent 10 minutes with "World War II for the Complete Idiot" would be able to tear this sentence of his apart.

They say nothing is idiot-proof because Nature creates a better idiot. I guess that goes for "WWII for the Complete Idiot" and Pat Buchanan as well.

955 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:44:31pm

re: #946 unrealizedviewpoint

I suspect much of this mornings, he'd rather not own.

Well, I found the up thread discussion classic, classic ___ (fill in the blank). There will be a test later.

956 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:44:37pm

re: #936 Walter L. Newton

Anything you post here is the intellectual property of Charles, I believe.

Confirm (Buzz)?

Somehow I do not live in fear of Charles doing anything unethical with my poor attempts at poetry.

957 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:44:54pm

re: #945 Gus 802

People need to mind there own business.

Total upding.

958 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:44:55pm

re: #952 JamesTKirk

What does LGoPs stand for, BTW?

Little Groups of Paratroopers...

959 Erik The Red  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:44:57pm

re: #944 Honorary Yooper

I could be a troublemaker and ask both of you, Cato and Erik, to see if your opinions on Sarah Palin concur, but I won't.
/

Hey we can't agree on everything.

960 JamesTKirk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:45:01pm

re: #956 Cato the Elder

Somehow I do not live in fear of Charles doing anything unethical with my poor attempts at poetry.

If he did, you could always seek poetic justice.

961 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:45:20pm

re: #930 Cato the Elder

I do want to make it clear that all ditties, limericks, rhymed reasons, unreasonable rhymes, etc., posted here by me are my own, and implicitly copyrighted, unless otherwise specified. There may be a book someday.

Are you at least going to give Manius Curius Dentatus a hat tip?

962 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:45:21pm

re: #928 Coracle

Just curious, what is your personal reaction to that story?

People have the inherent right to do whatever they want with their reproductive organs. The government should not intrude in the bedroom or the doctor's office. Hence, if someone wants to keep having babies, they have that right. If someone wants to have an abortion, they also have that right. It's not my role to dictate other people's behavior.

963 Erik The Red  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:45:21pm

re: #959 Erik The Red

Hey we can't agree on everything.

Probably most things.

964 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:45:22pm

re: #938 Kosh's Shadow

They are deflected by the living skin of the Vorlon ship and end up wasting their energies in empty space.
Since we can just make it up as we go along, as long as it has some semblence of consistency with the source.

But remember, I'm Kosh's Shadow, so watch it if you don't want to become the intelligence at the center of a Shadow warcrab.

Sorry my friend. The team of Grey Knights back with the Culexus Kill team which teleported onto your ship before hand rendered your much vaulted psychic abilites powerless to stand before the armored might of the Astartes. How very sad for you, Xenos filth.

965 JamesTKirk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:45:24pm

re: #958 LGoPs

Little Groups of Paratroopers...

Not Leather Goddesses of Phobos. Check.

966 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:46:07pm

re: #878 LudwigVanQuixote

Your calculation assumes that ice at the poles melts at a constant rate at all times. Therefore it is wrong. The poles do not melt at a constant rate. They also refreeze with the seasons and are driven to melt by multiple forcings with feedbacks.

Therefore your "conclusive mathematics" is not conclusive because the math you are using does not apply. You are wrong because you are using the wrong math to compare the wrong system with reality. Simply loudly shouting that 2+2=17 and then yelling that this is conclusive does not for good mathematics make.

As to your experiment.

All you had was ice melting by convection. There is a lot more than just convection in the real system.

What did you use for solar forcing (the sun is the ultimate driver in the real system)? Nothing.

What did you use for the seasons? Nothing

What did you use to include the feedback from albedo loss?
Nothing.

What did you use to include the feedback from ocean saturation? Nothing

What did you use to include the feedback from trapped methane and CO2 from melting the ice? Nothing.

What did you use to include the feedback from increased industrial output?
Nothing.

What did you use to include the feedback from changing cloud/weather patterns? Nothing.

Did you account for geography? No.

Did you account for currents in air and ocean? No.

Did you account for the fact that the real ice system breaks up in complicated and punctuated ways? No.

You then go on to claim that the Earth is cooling. This is not true and it has been debunked many times here.

That's rather funny, considering that the link I previously posted -

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Is in reply to this previously posted post of yours...;~)

BTW: only the GISS data shows warming in the past decade; the HadCrut3, RSS and UAH data all show a slight cooling trend:

[Link: reallyrealclimate.blogspot.com...]

967 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:46:09pm

re: #932 LudwigVanQuixote

Let's put a fight between a high end Enterprise vs. a Shadow crab.

If Kirk were in command it would be a good fight...

Alas, I fear the Picard would still be composing a lawyer letter to complain that the Shadows were rude while the nacelles were being cut off...

As Kosh's Shadow, I can supply both.
I do have to make sure the human in the crab (not as pilot, but as part of the machine) has some intelligence, so it will NOT be Pat Buchanan.

968 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:46:38pm

Today is "Whitney Houston Day" on iTunes.

Proving the existence of, if not immortality, at least a very boring eternity.

969 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:46:39pm

re: #956 Cato the Elder

Somehow I do not live in fear of Charles doing anything unethical with my poor attempts at poetry.

I wasn't even suggesting that. I was making an honest stab at getting a question answered. Is the comment posted on a blog the intellectual property of the blog owner, the commenter or the hosting company?

970 tradewind  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:46:45pm

re: #943 snowcrash
/There's an app for that/
iKegels.

971 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:47:17pm

re: #950 HoosierHoops

19 kids? 19 kids?
Gotta link Zombie at the SF Chron? This I gotta read...If you have 19 kids i hope the hell you are the world's best parents..
I'll withhold judgement till i read the link

They have a Wiki page.

972 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:47:34pm

re: #880 Salamantis

It would totally suck to destroy our global economy in order to prevent something that wouldn't happen anyway, or would do less damage than draconian preventative measures. Right now, around 80 cm is the upper end, and the lower end is around 10 - 20 cm; slightly less than half a meter (sdtill twice the rias we had last century) is the current sensible moderate climatological consensus center.

This is really just not true. Most people agree that IPCC was a very low end estimate. The report was toned down in many ways and further, it did not take into account many of the disturbing new realizations about how the ice breaks up and how much carbon is waiting to be released by the Canadian and Siberian bogs.

973 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:47:35pm

re: #965 JamesTKirk

Not Leather Goddesses of Phobos. Check.

No. LOL...
:)

974 JamesTKirk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:47:36pm

re: #971 MandyManners

They have a Wiki page.

They don't have their own Wiki?

975 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:47:46pm

re: #964 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sorry my friend. The team of Grey Knights back with the Culexus Kill team which teleported onto your ship before hand rendered your much vaulted psychic abilites powerless to stand before the armored might of the Astartes. How very sad for you, Xenos filth.

Teleportation fails through a Vorlon ship skin; it cannot be scanned, and, if you did find a way to teleport in, the ship made sure there was a bulkhead you teleported into.

976 Gus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:47:48pm

re: #957 Sharmuta

Total upding.

Thanks.

Seriously, what's wrong with some people. Then reading the phrase "the Duggar problem." It's like they're part of some fictional moral committee.

977 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:48:30pm

re: #976 Gus 802

Thanks.

Seriously, what's wrong with some people. Then reading the phrase "the Duggar problem." It's like they're part of some fictional moral committee.

Humans push their morals off on other humans. It's in our nature.

978 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:48:35pm

re: #945 Gus 802

First I ever head of these Duggars. I'm sure glad I don't watch TV.

People need to mind there own business.

The problem with that is that the Duggars have invited others to get up in their business.

979 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:49:08pm

re: #976 Gus 802

Thanks.

Seriously, what's wrong with some people. Then reading the phrase "the Duggar problem." It's like they're part of some fictional moral committee.

Sound like Nazis talking about another "problem" they were seeking a solution to. Sickening.

980 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:49:14pm

re: #950 HoosierHoops

19 kids? 19 kids?
Gotta link Zombie at the SF Chron? This I gotta read...If you have 19 kids i hope the hell you are the world's best parents..
I'll withhold judgement till i read the link

The Duggars are world famous. They have their own TV show. And yes, they are famously excellent parents. And take no governement aid.

Wikipedia:

The Duggars.

981 Erik The Red  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:49:15pm

re: #969 Walter L. Newton

I wasn't even suggesting that. I was making an honest stab at getting a question answered. Is the comment posted on a blog the intellectual property of the blog owner, the commenter or the hosting company?

If it is posted on the web and is not copy righted or trade marked I would guess it is "fair game".

982 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:49:22pm

re: #962 zombie

People have the inherent right to do whatever they want with their reproductive organs. The government should not intrude in the bedroom or the doctor's office. Hence, if someone wants to keep having babies, they have that right. If someone wants to have an abortion, they also have that right. It's not my role to dictate other people's behavior.

19 freaking kids? Better be the best parents in the world...If they are hanging in a Trailer park I'd worry about their mental state...I will read before I judge..It's only fair...19 kids?

983 JamesTKirk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:49:23pm

re: #978 MandyManners

The problem with that is that the Duggars have invited others to get up in their business.

There's probably a lot of room up in Mrs. Duggar's business.

984 Kenneth  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:49:26pm

re: #965 JamesTKirk

Not Leather Goddesses of Phobos. Check.

I think I dated her once...

985 Gus  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:49:29pm

re: #978 MandyManners

The problem with that is that the Duggars have invited others to get up in their business.

True. I thought about that when you mentioned that they have a Wiki page.

Oh well. I think I'll go hide someplace. ;)

986 Kragar  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:49:51pm

re: #975 Kosh's Shadow

Teleportation fails through a Vorlon ship skin; it cannot be scanned, and, if you did find a way to teleport in, the ship made sure there was a bulkhead you teleported into.

You might think that, but you forget that the Emperor Protects, plus we had displacer fields, just to be sure.

987 snowcrash  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:49:58pm

re: #971 MandyManners

They have a Wiki page.


Thanks, I'll check. I do not know them.

988 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:51:11pm

re: #966 Salamantis

Ya gotta stop it ,, you're killin me here !

989 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:52:12pm

re: #969 Walter L. Newton

I wasn't even suggesting that. I was making an honest stab at getting a question answered. Is the comment posted on a blog the intellectual property of the blog owner, the commenter or the hosting company?

I think it's a matter of how the blog (or other publication) defines it.

Letters to the NYT become the property of the NYT, according to the NYT. But if they are not printed, I would assume I have the right to seek publication elsewhere.

The the cartoon caption contest I recently entered at the New Yorker is different. They provide the cartoon, so if they don't like my submission, I can't take the cartoon and my caption and go flog it elsewhere.

If Charles has a statement somewhere making posts on LGF his or his company's, that would make things clear from his point of view. But the principle that "you own your own words" still has validity under law, I believe.

Any "esquires" care to weight in?

990 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:52:38pm

re: #966 Salamantis

Sal, one thing at a time. It is very difficult to discuss this with you because you move around all over the place. So, sticking to the science, you have claimed a "conclusive experiment" with "conclusive mathematics" to back up your views. I have very seriously challenged very large flaws in both your methodology and analysis.

I will happily get to your other claims after we have dispensed with this.

So please tell me why my criticism of your "conclusive" results is invalid. Then we will move on.

I have no problem backing up anything I have said. G-d knows I have posted link after link and written explanation after explanation. However, one thing at a time.

Defend your contentions or acknowledge the flaws in them.

991 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:52:59pm

re: #982 HoosierHoops

19 freaking kids? Better be the best parents in the world...If they are hanging in a Trailer park I'd worry about their mental state...I will read before I judge..It's only fair...19 kids?

They live in a huge, well-appointed house, and are quite wealthy.

992 Chekote  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:53:30pm

Since this thread seems to be about crazies on the right. Just when you thought Michelle Bachamann couldn't get any nuttier:

Bachmann: We Have to ‘Slit Our Wrists, Be Blood Brothers’ Against Health Care Reform

H/T: New Majority

993 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:53:41pm

re: #983 JamesTKirk

Oh, dear me.

994 yochanan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:53:51pm

RAT PUKEANAN VS NAOM CHIMSKY two different sides of the same anti semitic coin.

995 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:53:56pm

re: #980 zombie

The Duggars are world famous. They have their own TV show. And yes, they are famously excellent parents. And take no governement aid.

Wikipedia:

The Duggars.

Wow...Just Wow...19 kids..I'm speechless

996 JamesTKirk  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:54:08pm

re: #993 MandyManners

Oh, dear me.

And on that note... I'm outta here.

997 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:54:30pm

re: #985 Gus 802

True. I thought about that when you mentioned that they have a Wiki page.

Oh well. I think I'll go hide someplace. ;)

No need. Check out their Wiki.

998 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:54:55pm

re: #930 Cato the Elder

I do want to make it clear that all ditties, limericks, rhymed reasons, unreasonable rhymes, etc., posted here by me are my own, and implicitly copyrighted, unless otherwise specified. There may be a book someday.

I love comic books, let us know when it's coming out!

/JUST KIDDING

999 tradewind  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:54:55pm

re: #949 Kenneth

I think they're just p--sed because this particular family is comprised of personable, articulate, attractive people who are making a good living (even before their tv debut), not living off the state, and who have all their teeth. There's nothing Waco-compound-ish about them. The left is particularly irked that they pay taxes, rather than suck from the state.
I agree that if they were Wiccans, they'd cut 'em a break.

1000 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:54:57pm

re: #995 HoosierHoops

Wow...Just Wow...19 kids..I'm speechless

And no TV.

1001 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:55:07pm

re: #991 zombie

They live in a huge, well-appointed house, and are quite wealthy.

Which means leftist complaints about them are based solely on their own religious-like faith in Malthus, Marx, and Mother Gaia.

1002 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:55:09pm

re: #987 snowcrash

Thanks, I'll check. I do not know them.

YEC's who do not allow females to go to college.

1003 Coracle  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:55:11pm

re: #962 zombie

Thanks. Cool by me.

1004 Chekote  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:55:30pm

Just when you thought Michelle Bachamann couldn't get any nuttier:

Bachmann: We Have to ‘Slit Our Wrists, Be Blood Brothers’ Against Health Care Reform

H/T: New Majority

1005 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:55:49pm

re: #996 JamesTKirk

And on that note... I'm outta here.

Bye!

1006 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:55:58pm

re: #1000 Walter L. Newton

And no TV.

What did Motel 6 need more TV's?
*wink*

1007 LGoPs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:56:14pm

re: #995 HoosierHoops

Wow...Just Wow...19 kids..I'm speechless

I think they're trying to start their own country...
/

1008 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:56:31pm

re: #966 Salamantis

Sal that would be cherry picking the data and attempting to mislead with graphs. This practice has been debunked here by myself, Coracle, Sharmuta, Freetoken, Iceweasle and Charles many times with may links.

How about we look at the real data?

[Link: www.ncdc.noaa.gov...]

There is also a helpful FAQ on this page that will directly address many of your other objections, so you do not need to take my word for it.

1009 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:56:48pm

re: #972 LudwigVanQuixote

This is really just not true. Most people agree that IPCC was a very low end estimate. The report was toned down in many ways and further, it did not take into account many of the disturbing new realizations about how the ice breaks up and how much carbon is waiting to be released by the Canadian and Siberian bogs.

Actually, many people suspected that IPCC 2007 might be a lowball estimate.

But Bristol 2009, which closely corroborated it went a long way towards reassuring most of them and shoring up their confidence in IPCC.

Once again, carbon dioxide and methane release are only relevant insomuch as they raise global temps; you would have to argue that the global temp was going to increase by not 7, but by close to 20 degrees C in the next century for your total melt ten meter rise scenario to obtain. And nobody credible thinks that.

1010 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:57:01pm

re: #1001 ArchangelMichael

Which means leftist complaints about them are based solely on their own religious-like faith in Malthus, Marx, and Mother Gaia.

Bingo.

1011 shiplord kirel  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:58:01pm

re: #991 zombie

They live in a huge, well-appointed house, and are quite wealthy.

They better be. Remember the story about the Belgian guy who had 4 wives and 41 kids? The tribe was getting $10,000/month in welfare.

1012 tradewind  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:58:03pm

re: #1000 Walter L. Newton

The opening statement of their show says that they' carefully monitor' their kids' computer and television watching, so I would guess that there is a television lurking somewhere in the house.

1013 snowcrash  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:59:03pm

re: #1002 MandyManners
Not my cup of tea. Having 2 just about sucks the life out of me! lol

1014 Joshua Cohen  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 1:59:25pm

re: #899 JamesTKirk

The only hope the Republicans have is that there aren't any grownups on the other side either.

That's little relief for the rest of us who are hoping to see grownups back in charge, mind you.

To be honest, this does not make me feel better!

1015 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:00:03pm

re: #1000 Walter L. Newton

And no TV.

re: #1012 tradewind

The opening statement of their show says that they' carefully monitor' their kids' computer and television watching, so I would guess that there is a television lurking somewhere in the house.

Wikipedia says they can watch TV if they want, but generally only educational and religious programs.

1016 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:00:08pm

re: #704 Cato the Elder

Seems Stinky is workin' the salt shaker as we speak.

Stinky's shaking it like a Polaroid picture...

/Hey Ya!

1017 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:00:12pm

My Moonbat Mother (MMM™) thinks "something should be done about" people who have "too many children". What that something ought to be and who ought to decide how many are too many, she won't say.

My mother wouldn't hurt a fly in person. In theory, she would make a good Imperatrix.

Why I fear eco-fascism more than I do eco-disaster.

1018 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:00:13pm

re: #1013 snowcrash

Not my cup of tea. Having 2 just about sucks the life out of me! lol

During 36 hours of labor, I knew I was done with just one.

1019 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:00:34pm

re: #1009 Salamantis


But Bristol 2009, which closely corroborated it went a long way towards reassuring most of them and shoring up their confidence in IPCC.

Funny that wasn't the case at the colloquium I attended last week...

Once again, carbon dioxide and methane release are only relevant insomuch as they raise global temps;

And that would create a bigger feed back and melt more ice yes?

you would have to argue that the global temp was going to increase by not 7, but by close to 20 degrees C in the next century for your total melt ten meter rise scenario to obtain.

I'll quibble with where you got your numbers from another time. But mind you the ten meter rise is something that I only said can not be ruled out.

And nobody credible thinks that.

Really, that wasn't what I was hearing at the colloquium I was at last week...

But this is a digression.

Can we please stick to your experiment for now and then we can move on to your other claims.

1020 Erik The Red  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:01:15pm

LGF acting very "funny" atm. Anyone else having issues?

1021 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:01:35pm

re: #1015 zombie

Wikipedia says they can watch TV if they want, but generally only educational and religious programs.

It was a bad joke on my part. No TV, lots of Kids, never mind. Doink.

1022 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:02:09pm

re: #990 LudwigVanQuixote

However, one thing at a time.

Defend your contentions or acknowledge the flaws in them.

TRANSLATION,,, play by my rules so I

A) have a chance
B) if not, will take my ball and go home


((I know ,, I know ,, stay out of it))

1023 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:02:29pm

Repost.

Sal, one thing at a time. It is very difficult to discuss this with you because you move around all over the place. So, sticking to the science, you have claimed a "conclusive experiment" with "conclusive mathematics" to back up your views. I have very seriously challenged very large flaws in both your methodology and analysis.

I will happily get to your other claims after we have dispensed with this.

So please tell me why my criticism of your "conclusive" results is invalid. Then we will move on.

I have no problem backing up anything I have said. G-d knows I have posted link after link and written explanation after explanation. However, one thing at a time.

Defend your contentions or acknowledge the flaws in them.

1024 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:02:34pm

re: #1020 Erik The Red

LGF acting very "funny" atm. Anyone else having issues?

yup

1025 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:02:57pm

re: #990 LudwigVanQuixote

Sal, one thing at a time. It is very difficult to discuss this with you because you move around all over the place. So, sticking to the science, you have claimed a "conclusive experiment" with "conclusive mathematics" to back up your views. I have very seriously challenged very large flaws in both your methodology and analysis.

I will happily get to your other claims after we have dispensed with this.

So please tell me why my criticism of your "conclusive" results is invalid. Then we will move on.

I have no problem backing up anything I have said. G-d knows I have posted link after link and written explanation after explanation. However, one thing at a time.

Defend your contentions or acknowledge the flaws in them.

You cannot find a flaw in the mathematics and I have previously posted, and reposted in this very thread, why your objections are irrelevant. It is YOU who has to demonstrate why the current climatological consensus on this issue is, according to you and almost no one else, grievously wrong.

1026 tradewind  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:03:18pm

re: #1015 zombie

That doesn't exactly qualify as child abuse...
:)
When it comes to controversial subjects like a family of nineteen (wow), you have to remember that wikipedia is edited and added to by the public, and take that into account. I wouldn't rely on it to be strictly factual.
A friend of mine said ' you have to catch this show at least once'... I watched it a couple of times, and had some preconceptions ( no pun intended)... they were pretty much shot down. Seem like really nice people. Not my thing, or probably most people's, but they are definitely productive citizens who love their children.

1027 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:03:41pm

re: #1022 sattv4u2

However, one thing at a time.

Defend your contentions or acknowledge the flaws in them.

TRANSLATION,,, play by my rules so I

A) have a chance
B) if not, will take my ball and go home

((I know ,, I know ,, stay out of it))

NO, stick to one point at a time so that they can either be accepted or rejected and then we can move on. That is how real science discussions work. I realize that you have never been to one before. Otherwise you would realize that these are not my rules.

And no, you are free to make a fool of yourself as much as you wish.

1028 Erik The Red  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:03:56pm

re: #1018 MandyManners

During 36 hours of labor, I knew I was done with just one.

Damn they just don't build you women like they used to. :)))

1029 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:05:57pm

re: #1025 Salamantis

You cannot find a flaw in the mathematics and I have previously posted, and reposted in this very thread, why your objections are irrelevant. It is YOU who has to demonstrate why the current climatological consensus on this issue is, according to you and almost no one else, grievously wrong.

Sal, the flaw is that it is the wrong math to use for the reasons I listed. You have claimed that you have conclusively shown something.

Don't try to shift the topic when I actually have told you why the math is wrong. So either, back up your experiment and the flawed analysis you made or, acknowledge that was wrong and then we will move on to your other claims.

1030 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:05:58pm

re: #1027 LudwigVanQuixote

[snip]

...And no, you are free to make a fool of yourself as much as you wish.

Hell, why not, everyone else does.

1031 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:06:54pm

If a woman wants to snap out bezoars like a turtle laying eggs, and she or more likely her mini-Christ husband can afford to feed them, it's none of my damn business.

And it's even none of my business if they can't afford them.

1032 yochanan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:06:57pm

re: #1029 LudwigVanQuixote

lud did you ever admit your mistake about the water level of the great lakes?

1033 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:06:58pm

re: #1020 Erik The Red

I have problems on this (my work) computer when a thread gets over about 800 or so comments and we are over 1000 now.

1034 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:07:41pm

re: #1015 zombie

Wikipedia says they can watch TV if they want, but generally only educational and religious programs.

We raised 3 boys and 2 girls..Do have any idea have many Pamela Anderson Sex videos I've deleted from Computers? OK I watched the Paris ones but that doesn't count.
19 kids?
My prediction...Big house... lots of money...LOL like that matters

3 kids will be preachers
3 kids will have 10 children
3 kids will end up in jail
3 kids will end up in the military
3 kids will be policemen/Firemen
3 kids will be teachers
the last kid will end up in an Mental asylum...
*wink*

1035 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:07:42pm

re: #1032 yochanan

lud did you ever admit your mistake about the water level of the great lakes?

I didn't make one. However, I would prefer to stick to one argument at a time.

1036 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:07:48pm

re: #1033 ArchangelMichael

I have problems on this (my work) computer when a thread gets over about 800 or so comments and we are over 1000 now.

If you are using IE, you will, no matter how loaded your workstation is.

1037 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:08:34pm

re: #1027 LudwigVanQuixote

NO, stick to one point at a time so that they can either be accepted or rejected and then we can move on. That is how real science discussions work. I realize that you have never been to one before. Otherwise you would realize that these are not my rules.

And no, you are free to make a fool of yourself as much as you wish.

Bad assumption on your part! In that you have a proclivity to assume, I could therefore ASSUME that your "science discussions" aren't worth the HOT air they created

But I won't!

((and always with the personal attacks! Whats up with that?)))

1038 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:09:00pm

re: #1019 LudwigVanQuixote

Really, that wasn't what I was hearing at the colloquium I was at last week...

But this is a digression.

Can we please stick to your experiment for now and then we can move on to your other claims.

Appeals to private knowledge of hearsay are no more dispositive than are appeals to self-alleged authority.

It is YOU who are making the extraordinary claims, without even being able to supply even ordinary evidence for them. I am the one who is standing by the current climatological consensus on the issue.

1039 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:09:25pm

Ultimately, the planet will take care of itself. With or without our help, and with or without us.

I am uninterested in and terrified of vast human schemes. A toast to "muddling through"!

1040 yochanan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:09:47pm

re: #1035 LudwigVanQuixote

yes you did the great lakes will not turn into a great inland sea as the water leaves it from three points and will generally have a max. water level.

1041 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:09:53pm

re: #1037 sattv4u2

Bad assumption on your part! In that you have a proclivity to assume, I could therefore ASSUME that your "science discussions" aren't worth the HOT air they created

But I won't!

((and always with the personal attacks! Whats up with that?)))

Well, ok, so now your claim is that you went to some.. OK...

If that is true then we must conclude that you didn't understand them.

Because if you had, you would know how this is done, and that these are not my rules.

1042 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:10:13pm

re: #1036 Walter L. Newton

If you are using IE, you will, no matter how loaded your workstation is.

I try to never defile LGF by viewing it through IE.

IE is for Exchange and SharePoint... nothing else.

1043 yochanan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:11:02pm

when lud is wrong he never admits it.

1044 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:11:22pm

re: #1039 Cato the Elder

Ultimately, the planet will take care of itself. With or without our help, and with or without us.

I am uninterested in and terrified of vast human schemes. A toast to "muddling through"!

We are caretakers of this Planet...There is no where else to move..
Clean air..Clean water...Our children deserve it...

1045 snowcrash  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:11:29pm

re: #1018 MandyManners
Mandy, wiki says she is 42. She is rolling the dice with Down Syndrome.

1046 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:12:26pm

Latest comment at the SF Chronicle:

"duespaid 9/1/2009 1:46:12 PM

I don't care how much money they have, or what great parents they are. Having 19 children is immoral and a sign of poor mental health. Big surprise, they are right wing "christians", with no respect for the earth and no sense of reponsibility to the welfare of the larger community. I don't think that legal limits on reproduction are such a bad idea. And it isn't like the government isn't already in our bedrooms and our vaginas."

1047 jill e  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:12:42pm

re: #1039 Cato the Elder

Ultimately, the planet will take care of itself. With or without our help, and with or without us.

I am uninterested in and terrified of vast human schemes. A toast to "muddling through"!

Considering "experts" can't even make up their minds if coffee is good for you or bad.

1048 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:13:06pm

re: #1043 yochanan

when lud is wrong he never admits it.

Thats because he's never wrong

SCIENCE!

1049 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:14:09pm

re: #1039 Cato the Elder

Ultimately, the planet will take care of itself. With or without our help, and with or without us.

I am uninterested in and terrified of vast human schemes. A toast to "muddling through"!

A gazillion updings Cato - so eloquently worded.

1050 yochanan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:14:27pm

remember the golden rule he who has the gold makes the rules

as long as the gov't doesn't fund your kids have as many as you can afford if you can afford one your choice not the gov't/s like in china.

1051 Erik The Red  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:14:34pm

re: #1047 jill e

Considering "experts" can't even make up their minds if coffee is good for you or bad.

Butter or marg.

1052 jill e  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:14:35pm

re: #1045 snowcrash

Mandy, wiki says she is 42. She is rolling the dice with Down Syndrome.

Something like 25% of children with Downs Syndrome are born to women under 35. I had a perfectly normal child at 44. Some of the most wonderful people I have ever known had Downs Syndrome.

You can also have a child with a head injury from an auto accident at age 19.

1053 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:15:21pm

re: #1042 ArchangelMichael

I try to never defile LGF by viewing it through IE.

IE is for Exchange and SharePoint... nothing else.

I was trying to help. Sorry.

1054 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:15:31pm

re: #1046 zombie

Latest comment at the SF Chronicle:

"duespaid 9/1/2009 1:46:12 PM

I don't care how much money they have, or what great parents they are. Having 19 children is immoral and a sign of poor mental health. Big surprise, they are right wing "christians", with no respect for the earth and no sense of reponsibility to the welfare of the larger community. I don't think that legal limits on reproduction are such a bad idea. And it isn't like the government isn't already in our bedrooms and our vaginas."

Change the name to Achmed and they'll be praising the "cultural" practice.

1055 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:15:43pm

re: #1034 HoosierHoops

We raised 3 boys and 2 girls..Do have any idea have many Pamela Anderson Sex videos I've deleted from Computers? OK I watched the Paris ones but that doesn't count.
19 kids?
My prediction...Big house... lots of money...LOL like that matters

3 kids will be preachers
3 kids will have 10 children
3 kids will end up in jail
3 kids will end up in the military
3 kids will be policemen/Firemen
3 kids will be teachers
the last kid will end up in an Mental asylum...
*wink*

Females are not allowed to do those things. No education beyond high school.

1056 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:16:02pm

re: #1046 zombie

Latest comment at the SF Chronicle:

"duespaid 9/1/2009 1:46:12 PM

I don't care how much money they have, or what great parents they are. Having 19 children is immoral and a sign of poor mental health. Big surprise, they are right wing "christians", with no respect for the earth and no sense of reponsibility to the welfare of the larger community. I don't think that legal limits on reproduction are such a bad idea. And it isn't like the government isn't already in our bedrooms and our vaginas."

And again, what ever happened to Keep the Government Off My Body!!!

1057 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:16:25pm

re: #1046 zombie

Latest comment at the SF Chronicle:

" [...] I don't think that legal limits on reproduction are such a bad idea. And it isn't like the government isn't already in our bedrooms and our vaginas."

Now suggest the same laws be applied to welfare moms and watch 'em scream.

I'm against telling people what the can do whether they're black or white, rich or poor, Christian or idiot or both.

1058 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:16:44pm

re: #1045 snowcrash

Mandy, wiki says she is 42. She is rolling the dice with Down Syndrome.

Did you read the about very little prenatal care is allowed in that church?

1059 jill e  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:17:00pm

A wonderful life with 10 children!

1060 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:17:02pm

re: #1029 LudwigVanQuixote

Sal, the flaw is that it is the wrong math to use for the reasons I listed. You have claimed that you have conclusively shown something.

Don't try to shift the topic when I actually have told you why the math is wrong. So either, back up your experiment and the flawed analysis you made or, acknowledge that was wrong and then we will move on to your other claims.

What about it do you dispute?

Do you dispute that global sea levels rose by 8 inches in the last century?

Do you dispute that global temperature is predicted to rise at the outside by 7 degrees C in the next century?

Do you dispute that a total meltdown of all ice caps would cause a sea level rise in excess of 10 meters?

Do you dispute that a meter is ~ 39.37 inches, so 10 meters would be ~ 393.7 inches?

Do you dispute that 393.7 divided by 8 = 49.2125?

Do you dispute that this means that for the 10 meter scenario to apply, a 7 degree C increase in global temperature would have to cause the ice cap melt rate to multiply 50 fold?

And do you dispute that Bristol shows that whenever global temps rose by 7 degrees in the past 22,000 years, that the global sea level never rose by more than a meter?

1061 BlackFedora  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:17:24pm

Honestly the more I think about it... this is the same old schtick for Pat. I just can't fathom why people still listen to him.

1062 zelnaga  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:17:51pm

re: #183 zombie

In other news, just noticed this recent post on a blog that linked to one of my old reports -- and they make a good point:

Obama's old colleague Bill Ayers dedicated book to Sirhan Sirhan -- a fact not mentioned in the coverage of Obama's eulogy for Ted Kennedy.


Ted Kennedy didn't appear to be too bothered by Obama's association with Bill Ayers. Certainly it didn't stop him from endorsing Obama for POTUS:

[Link: www.boston.com...]

To most, the news was almost unthinkable. Kennedy had been back on the national stage in force, conferring a timely endorsement on Barack Obama for president — a move that now seemed almost to be a passing of the torch: Jack's torch, Bobby's torch, and his own.

1063 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:18:01pm

the part

1064 shiplord kirel  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:18:05pm

re: #1046 zombie

Latest comment at the SF Chronicle:

"duespaid 9/1/2009 1:46:12 PM

I don't care how much money they have, or what great parents they are. Having 19 children is immoral and a sign of poor mental health. Big surprise, they are right wing "christians", with no respect for the earth and no sense of reponsibility to the welfare of the larger community. I don't think that legal limits on reproduction are such a bad idea. And it isn't like the government isn't already in our bedrooms and our vaginas."

The Duggars are indeed kooks, prominent members of the Quiverfull movement, but that has nothing to do with their right to have as many children as they like.
I know of at least two families here in Lubbock who have 18 or more children, btw.

1065 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:18:21pm

And the hits just keep on coming:

"diddly_bubkiss 9/1/2009 2:08:29 PM

This is obscene. Some day people will look at anyone with more than 2 kids and categorize them the same way we would someone spewing pollution into our reservoirs, or throwing trash out of their car windows."

1066 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:18:23pm

re: #1040 yochanan

yes you did the great lakes will not turn into a great inland sea as the water leaves it from three points and will generally have a max. water level.

No I said that Chicago could get flooded too. This is a true statement.

1067 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:19:04pm

re: #1051 Erik The Red

Butter or marg.

First eggs were good. Then they were bad. Then they were good again.

When I read the word "studies show..." I reach for my revolver.

The latest one claims that men getting blood tests for prostate cancer is a bad idea, because if it's the kind of cancer that shouldn't or can't be treated it just scares the poor guys for no reason.

How they would know what kind it is if they don't detect it in the first place is not explained.

Science!

1068 brazilofmux  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:19:05pm

re: #850 sffilk

I don't remember that one happening. By any chance, do you recall what he said to cause this?

The transition from the group exchange to Pat's monologue was a planned part of the program. It wasn't as if he said something something specific that offended the rest of the panel enough that they walked off. Just before his monologue, they were covering the same issue, they were in his face, but he was keeping his power dry.

And then, on cue, there was the transition to him standing up, the lights dimming, the rest of the panel walking off stage behind him, and he went deep into his pitch.

Maybe there is a transcript floating around, but I don't have a pointer to it.

1069 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:19:17pm

re: #1060 Salamantis

Do you dispute

You're missing the big picture! he's disputing being disputed!

1070 yochanan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:19:33pm

re: #1048 sattv4u2

Thats because he's never wrong

SCIENCE!

yesterday he said the great lakes would because of global warming become great inland seas the fact is the great lakes have a upper limit to how deep they can become as extra water runs off down 3 exit points the main one being the st Laurence river.

the Nagira falls are slowly moving towards the smallest of the great lakes and when they do meet that lake will no longer exist. the other four lakes are much deeper.

1071 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:20:11pm

Dear Leader to speak to the kiddies:
Obama to make unprecedented address to ‘Students across America’ Sept 8

Do you think this would happen if Bush was still President?

1072 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:20:17pm

re: #1055 MandyManners

Females are not allowed to do those things. No education beyond high school.

Both my girls are smarter than a whip..Both went to college And I am very proud of them...I would do anything for the girls and we have always told them the future in unbounded by this world..
/Hi Mandy...19 kids..Can you imagine? LOL

1073 tradewind  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:20:28pm

Monster Garrido that kidnapped that eleven year old is going for the head injury defense.
This makes me want to spit nails.

1074 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:20:30pm

re: #1053 Walter L. Newton

Didn't mean to sound offended. I was just joking. Firefox seems to have memory hog problems still so I stopped using it again. At work I use IE for work stuff and Chrome for other things. When a thread gets over 800 it starts to slow the system way down.

1075 BlackFedora  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:20:44pm

re: #1061 BlackFedora

That said I would not mind a WWII vet with a decent left hook smacking him once or twice.

1076 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:20:50pm

re: #1066 LudwigVanQuixote

No I said that Chicago could get flooded too. This is a true statement.

And the problem with that would be?

1077 Erik The Red  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:21:41pm

re: #1067 Cato the Elder

First eggs were good. Then they were bad. Then they were good again.

When I read the word "studies show..." I reach for my revolver.

The latest one claims that men getting blood tests for prostate cancer is a bad idea, because if it's the kind of cancer that shouldn't or can't be treated it just scares the poor guys for no reason.

How they would know what kind it is if they don't detect it in the first place is not explained.

Science!

Pay me enough money and I will make the science show whatever you want it to show.

1078 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:21:55pm

re: #1060 Salamantis

What do I dispute?

Sal, I was very clear about what was completely wrong about your conclusive experiment and your conclusive results.

Since you seem to have forgotten my objections - please do me the kindness of looking at the repost and addressing them.

Your calculation assumes that ice at the poles melts at a constant rate at all times. Therefore it is wrong. The poles do not melt at a constant rate. They also refreeze with the seasons and are driven to melt by multiple forcings with feedbacks.

Therefore your "conclusive mathematics" is not conclusive because the math you are using does not apply. You are wrong because you are using the wrong math to compare the wrong system with reality. Simply loudly shouting that 2+2=17 and then yelling that this is conclusive does not for good mathematics make.

As to your experiment.

All you had was ice melting by convection. There is a lot more than just convection in the real system.

What did you use for solar forcing (the sun is the ultimate driver in the real system)? Nothing.

What did you use for the seasons? Nothing

What did you use to include the feedback from albedo loss?
Nothing.

What did you use to include the feedback from ocean saturation? Nothing

What did you use to include the feedback from trapped methane and CO2 from melting the ice? Nothing.

What did you use to include the feedback from increased industrial output?
Nothing.

What did you use to include the feedback from changing cloud/weather patterns? Nothing.

Did you account for geography? No.

Did you account for currents in air and ocean? No.

Did you account for the fact that the real ice system breaks up in complicated and punctuated ways? No.

You then go on to claim that the Earth is cooling. This is not true and it has been debunked many times here.

1079 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:22:13pm

re: #1072 HoosierHoops

Both my girls are smarter than a whip..Both went to college And I am very proud of them...I would do anything for the girls and we have always told them the future in unbounded by this world..
/Hi Mandy...19 kids..Can you imagine? LOL

You must not be a member of the Quiverfull church.

1080 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:22:15pm

re: #1067 Cato the Elder

First eggs were good. Then they were bad. Then they were good again.

When I read the word "studies show..." I reach for my revolver.

The latest one claims that men getting blood tests for prostate cancer is a bad idea, because if it's the kind of cancer that shouldn't or can't be treated it just scares the poor guys for no reason.

How they would know what kind it is if they don't detect it in the first place is not explained.

Science!

With regard to prostate cancer, when they say "shouldn't be treated," they probably mean is it shouldn't be treated if the patient is of advanced age. The theory being one needs die of something and the treatment may very well kill the patient.

1081 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:22:27pm

re: #1070 yochanan

yesterday he said the great lakes would because of global warming become great inland seas the fact is the great lakes have a upper limit to how deep they can become as extra water runs off down 3 exit points the main one being the st Laurence river.

the Nagira falls are slowly moving towards the smallest of the great lakes and when they do meet that lake will no longer exist. the other four lakes are much deeper.

No I said that Chicago could flood as well.

1082 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:23:02pm

re: #1076 Cato the Elder

And the problem with that would be?

lol I hear your point. New Jersey is in for a beating too...

1083 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:23:05pm

re: #1074 ArchangelMichael

Didn't mean to sound offended. I was just joking. Firefox seems to have memory hog problems still so I stopped using it again. At work I use IE for work stuff and Chrome for other things. When a thread gets over 800 it starts to slow the system way down.

I'm on a 2003 HP box (XP PRO), was top of the line in 2003, only 1gig (that's the max) and Safari works the best for me. Thread never slows down (IE was totally unstable after 600 comments).

1084 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:23:10pm

re: #1055 MandyManners

Females are not allowed to do those things. No education beyond high school.

They're damn lucky to get any of the education.

1085 tradewind  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:23:35pm

re: #1067 Cato the Elder

The issue is that checking PSA levels can lead to biopsies, which lead in some cases to surgery that may a) not prolong life or b) be necessary, but in fact cause unnecessary injury.
But this is why we don't want Obamacare. Way too many levels and issues for a blanket declaration by the Prostate Czar.

1086 drcordell  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:23:49pm

re: #1077 Erik The Red

Pay me enough money and I will make the science show whatever you want it to show.

You can make statistics show whatever you want. You can't get it peer-reviewed and published in a respected scientific journal if it's complete crockery. That's the difference between science and data.

1087 Charpete67  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:24:15pm

How the hell does a thread on Pat Buchanan loves Hitler become an AGW thread?

1088 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:24:36pm

re: #1060 Salamantis

Also Sal do me the kindness of giving me a link to this Bristol paper that you seem to take as the word of G-d, I am at the university, so I will happily look at the full paper. Something you have yet to do.

1089 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:24:46pm

re: #1085 tradewind

The issue is that checking PSA levels can lead to biopsies, which lead in some cases to surgery that may a) not prolong life or b) be necessary, but in fact cause unnecessary injury.
But this is why we don't want Obamacare. Way too many levels and issues for a blanket declaration by the Prostate Czar.

BINGO!

1090 jill e  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:24:51pm

re: #1071 Desert Dog

Dear Leader to speak to the kiddies:
Obama to make unprecedented address to ‘Students across America’ Sept 8

Do you think this would happen if Bush was still President?

Time for a National Hooky Day?

1091 drcordell  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:24:56pm

re: #1087 Charpete67

How the hell does a thread on Pat Buchanan loves Hitler become an AGW thread?

Ask the chuckleheads who can't wrap their heads around simple facts simply because they hate Al Gore.

1092 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:25:07pm

re: #1080 unrealizedviewpoint

With regard to prostate cancer, when they say "shouldn't be treated," they probably mean is it shouldn't be treated if the patient is of advanced age. The theory being one needs die of something and the treatment may very well kill the patient.

No, there are some cancers that shouldn't be treated because anything you do is worse than the slow growth of the tumor(s). "Watchful waiting" is the watchword in those cases.

But my friend had a very aggressive (thankfully rare) form that radical immediate radical prostatectomy. How would they have known without the test?

A researcher at Hopkins is today saying he can't believe the anti-test paper was even published...

1093 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:25:31pm

re: #1087 Charpete67

How the hell does a thread on Pat Buchanan loves Hitler become an AGW thread?

Topic Climate change...

1094 yochanan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:25:41pm

re: #1066 LudwigVanQuixote

no it isn't the water will leave lake michigan long before it floods anything. you really should look at the maps and the level of the rivers leaving the great lakes. water will go out via the mississippi water shead and the st laurance water shed long before anything other than a few beachs and beach front homes have water problems.

1095 drcordell  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:25:46pm

re: #1085 tradewind

The issue is that checking PSA levels can lead to biopsies, which lead in some cases to surgery that may a) not prolong life or b) be necessary, but in fact cause unnecessary injury.
But this is why we don't want Obamacare. Way too many levels and issues for a blanket declaration by the Prostate Czar.

Paging Dr. Strawman. Dr. Strawman to oncology please.

1096 Charpete67  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:26:02pm

re: #1091 drcordell

Ask the chuckleheads who can't wrap their heads around simple facts simply because they hate Al Gore.

I thought we all hated Hitler?...//

1097 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:26:08pm

re: #1087 Charpete67

How the hell does a thread on Pat Buchanan loves Hitler become an AGW thread?

Thread Drift is as inevitable as Red Shift.

1098 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:26:41pm

re: #839 Desert Dog

Both are tiny, tiny minorities and will never take an active, let alone leadership role in any Congressional seat or Presidential administration. Calling Code Pink mainstream and tainting the entire Democrat Party with their activities is not fair, just as it is the opposite with the 4409 guys. They are not the Republican Party. They are just riding along, not driving.

Absolutely agree.

1099 drcordell  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:26:45pm

re: #1096 Charpete67

I thought we all hated Hitler?...//

We do, I think that's why the thread digressed to some other stuff. Pat Buchanan is just such a tool that there's really nothing to debate.

1100 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:27:32pm

re: #1078 LudwigVanQuixote

That's the third time you have repeated that post, so I will repeat my reply to it, again for the third time:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

ALL of your objections are irrelevant to the mathematical point I was making; let me repeat it for everyone yet again:

The global sea level rose a total of 8 inches in the past century.

It is predicted that the global temperature may rise a maximum of 6.4 degrees C in the next century (but we'll round it up to 7 degrees C in your favor).

If all of the ice caps melted, it would raise the global sea level in excess of 10 meters (but we'll round it down to 10 meters even in your favor).

Since a meter is about 39.37 inches, 10 meters would be about 393.7 inches (rounded down).

393.7 divided by 8 = 49.2125

Therefore, for all of the ice caps to melt in the next century, their melt rate would have to be damn near 50 times the present rate, as a result of an only 7 degree C global temperature rise. And it's much colder than the average global temperature in the polar regions, and adds ice and snow when the temps there drop below freezing, which they do more than half the time. And once again, ocean currents don't melt the Greenland and Antarctic ice caps except at the edges, because they rest on land, and the Arctic ice cap does rest in water, but because of that, 7/8 of its volume already displaces water, so its melting would not significantly raise global sea levels. And since ice and snow have high reflectivity coefficients, and sunlight strikes the poles at a very oblique angle after traveling through much more atmosphere than the perpendicular equatorial rays, it's not a significant factor. Nor are methane or CO2, as far as their chemistry are concerned; what melts ice is temperature, not atmospheric chemistry, so their only influence is how much radiant heat from the sun they trap and how much that raises global temperature - which is predicted to rise 7 degrees C at the outside in the next century, just as I factored in my calculations.

And according to the July 2009 Bristol study, every damn time in the last 22,000 years the temperature rose 6.4 degrees C, the global sea level did not rise more than 82 cm; otherwise, they would not have predicted that to be its upper end rise in response to a 6.4 degree C rise in the next century:

Constraints on future sea-level rise from past sea-level change
[Link: www.nature.com...]

And the results of the Bristol study closely correlate with the most recent (2007) IPCC estimates.

[Link: www.ipcc.ch...]

You may not like Wikipedia, but just follow the links:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Contemporary consensus climatological science agrees with ME, not YOU. Don't even try to pretend otherwise.

One other thing; please show me from this article where a 7 degree C increase in temperature translates to a 50 fold increase in melt rate:

Physical Basis for the Temperature-Based Melt-Index Method
[Link: fiesta.bren.ucsb.edu...]

You can't. Because 'nonlinearity' can provide no fucking justification whatsoever for the ADDITION of 7 degrees C in global temperature to be the cause of the MULTIPLICATION of the ice cap melt rate by more than 7 SQUARED times!!!

1101 Charpete67  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:27:52pm

re: #1097 Cato the Elder

Thread Drift is as inevitable as Red Shift.

I was hoping your 1039 post would have wrapped all this up...

1102 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:27:57pm

re: #1099 drcordell

We do, I think that's why the thread digressed to some other stuff. Pat Buchanan is just such a tool that there's really nothing to debate.

Perhaps you should go over to the Snow Leopard thread and insult them for a while too? I would hate to think you have missed someone.

1103 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:27:58pm

re: #1094 yochanan

no it isn't the water will leave lake michigan long before it floods anything. you really should look at the maps and the level of the rivers leaving the great lakes. water will go out via the mississippi water shead and the st laurance water shed long before anything other than a few beachs and beach front homes have water problems.

So, if the water was going so very rapidly as you claim - why is there any beach at all? Why didn't it all just dry up ages ago?

Clearly the water must back up.

Clearly more water means more water to back up. I agree that Chicago will be one of the last places hit because of this, however, you need to be careful about your assertions.

1104 Charpete67  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:28:17pm

re: #1099 drcordell

We do, I think that's why the thread digressed to some other stuff. Pat Buchanan is just such a tool that there's really nothing to debate.

ok...works for me...

1105 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:28:36pm

Going upthread...

1106 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:29:16pm

re: #1100 Salamantis

If this is the third time you posted this, and you have been told 3 times that you are wrong, why do you persist in continuing your error?
///

1107 drcordell  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:29:20pm

re: #1102 Desert Dog

Perhaps you should go over to the Snow Leopard thread and insult them for a while too? I would hate to think you have missed someone.

Good one...

1108 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:29:27pm

re: #865 Creeping Eruption

Of The Frogs?

Brekekek, brekekek.

1109 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:29:42pm

re: #1092 Cato the Elder

I'm glad for your friend, and you that you still have him.

1110 tradewind  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:30:07pm

re: #1087 Charpete67

Windmills.

1111 yochanan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:30:10pm

re: #1081 LudwigVanQuixote

your still wrong the record high water mark goes back to when the glacer's prevented water from leaving via the st laurience water shed and even then the high water mark did not cover all of chicago as the water was able to leave the lake via the mississippi water shed.

1112 mspfacs  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:30:27pm

The man is an antisemitic Nazi. Why would Hitler invade Russia and North Africa if he did not want war?

1113 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:30:46pm

re: #1100 Salamantis

Since a meter is about 39.37 inches, 10 meters would be about 393.7 inches (rounded down).

393.7 divided by 8 = 49.2125

Ok, just looking at your first point.

This assumes a constant melt rate Sal... This does not affect the real system.

Why can you not see this?

1114 Charpete67  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:31:01pm

re: #1106 Walter L. Newton

If this is the third time you posted this, and you have been told 3 times that you are wrong, why do you persist in continuing your error?
///

...no money in that...
the reason there are not that many studies about the planet doing fine is that they would be read by no one...the studies that say the world is coming to an end are so much more interesting...

1115 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:31:25pm

re: #1109 unrealizedviewpoint

I'm glad for your friend, and you that you still have him.

Deep bow.

His family is pretty pleased, too. He's only fifty-six, he's a professor of philosophy, and his youngest is not even a teenager yet.

1116 drcordell  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:32:40pm

re: #1100 Salamantis

The ultimate point is, we're just some douchebags commenting on the internet. There are nerds at Stanford and many other of the finest research institutions in the world who have devoted their entire lives to studying global warming. Why should their conclusions be completely discounted?

1117 right_wing2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:32:45pm

It looks like humanevents.com has pulled the column as well. At least I didn't find it when I did a search of his columns.

1118 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:33:09pm

re: #1091 drcordell

Ask the chuckleheads who can't wrap their heads around simple facts simply because they hate Al Gore.

Ask the apocalyptic ravers who grossly exaggerate, and even radically depart from, the actual current climate science, so they can terrorize people into doing what they want them to do.

CassandroNostradamists.

1119 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:33:23pm

re: #1115 Cato the Elder

Deep bow.

His family is pretty pleased, too. He's only fifty-six, he's a professor of philosophy, and his youngest is not even a teenager yet.

Good for him.

By the way, what does he do for a living?
/

1120 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:33:42pm

re: #890 snowcrash

Did you see the Natl Geo special Monday night on the Genographic Project? It was fascinating.

No, missed it. Sounds good, though.

1121 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:33:59pm

re: #1116 drcordell

The ultimate point is, we're just some douchebags commenting on the internet. There are nerds at Stanford and many other of the finest research institutions in the world who have devoted their entire lives to studying global warming. Why should their conclusions be completely discounted?

They shouldn't.

As I've said here many, many times, it's not the science, it's the political solutions I take issue with.

1122 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:34:09pm

re: #1106 Walter L. Newton

Walter, and three times he has tried to shift out of the topic without acknowledging any of the points.

Why must you come in and snipe? It is not as if you read the points or understood them ourself, so what is this to you?

1123 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:35:06pm

re: #903 MandyManners

The third site on Google with asshole's article is antiwar.com.

antiwar.com: all assholes, all the time.

1124 right_wing2  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:35:12pm

Analysis of Pat's article from a history teacher friend of mine.

Ok, an analysis of Pat's WWII theory...

Not the first time he has made this argument. The begining few paragraphs are a dead-on analysis...as far as they go. It was a bad idea for Britain to write a "blank check" war guarantee to Poland. Based on what was KNOWN at the time, there was no reason to assume that Hitler had world conquering ambitions.

Of course, we have more than those known facts of 1939 to go on now. We know that Hitler penned a sequal to Mein Kampf that laid out his plans to conquer Europe and America. We know that Hitler sat down with his top military commanders and told them that Germany would go to war in 1945, and to plan for just that. The Kreigsmarine was on a building program that would culminate in 1945 with a fleet to rival any in the world. The Luftwaffe was also building on a 1945 timeline. Oh, yeah, and so was the Wehrmacht. Hitler PLANNED to go to war in 1945 and he planned on an invasion of the USSR - to sweep aside his only major rival, namely Communism.

Pat is right that Hitler did not seek the destruction of France, and especially of England, but he attributes to Hitler motivations (by way of inference) that are invalid. Hitler wanted to destroy the USSR first. He hoped to make allies out of other Western European states, especially Britain. The declaration of war by France and Britain dimmed, but did not eliminate, these hopes. After the fall of France, Hitler hoped to avoid a bloody invasion of Britain. He knew such an invasion would cost him heavily, but it would also end any chance of Britain becoming an ally. Hitler did not want an Italian invasion of Greece because it was an ally of Britain...and because he was planning BARBAROSSA, the invasion of the USSR. A war in Greece would only distract from preparations (and when Italy got into trouble, Germany was forced to go to her aid, thus delaying BARBAROSSA until June...and dooming the success of the operation.

All of Pat's "Why would Hitler...?" questions can be answered - by Hitler's racial beliefs, or by Hitler's (sometimes insane) hopes that he could go back to his 1945 plan, or by simple mistakes on Hitler's part. Hitler may not have killed many Jews in 1939 (Dachau notwithstanding), but that was because he had "solved" Germany's Jewish "problem." There were few Jews left in Germany. As he took over territory, he found millions of Jews in German controlled lands who had to be dealt with. To suggest that he never planned on "dealing" with them is dishonesty.

It is sad that Buchanan is partially right, then goes horribly off-track and becomes an apologist for Hitler. It undermines the good things he has to say.

1125 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:35:25pm

re: #1119 Walter L. Newton

Good for him.

By the way, what does he do for a living?
/

Teaches paradoxes to impressionable undergrads.

Beats what I do by a mile...

1126 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:35:45pm

re: #1122 LudwigVanQuixote

Walter, and three times he has tried to shift out of the topic without acknowledging any of the points.

Why must you come in and snipe? It is not as if you read the points or understood them ourself, so what is this to you?

Was I talking to you? Anyway, I jumped in because I had something to say. Odd how that works here.

1127 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:36:03pm

re: #1118 Salamantis

Ask the apocalyptic ravers who grossly exaggerate, and even radically depart from, the actual current climate science, so they can terrorize people into doing what they want them to do.

CassandroNostradamists.

Sal stop speechifying and get back to the science that you still have not addressed.

We agreed to keep this scientific.

So how about just one point - just one,

Your math assumes a constant rate of melt. The rate melt is not constant therefore your math is wrong. Can you focus on that enough to not speechify?

1128 drcordell  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:36:16pm

re: #1114 Charpete67

...no money in that...
the reason there are not that many studies about the planet doing fine is that they would be read by no one...the studies that say the world is coming to an end are so much more interesting...

There is plenty of money in coming up with anti-AGW science. Do you know how many fossil-fuel industry funded groups currently exist to shill anti-AGW nonsense. If there was actual, REAL, science that they could get a hold of to prove their point, it would be quite valuable.

Furthermore, in the scientific community you don't gain notoriety by furthering already discovered theories. You gain notoriety by challenging what has become commonly held knowledge. Legitimate scientific proof that AGW is made up would be extremely valuable in this regard as well.

1129 yochanan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:36:23pm

re: #1103 LudwigVanQuixote

for the simple minded think of the lakes as a giant bath tub water goes in till it over flows the top in the case of the lakes the top is the level of the river exit points. unless you damn them up the water will leave at those points if the level of the lakes goes up more water will leave at those points

at chicago the wideth of the great lakes water shed is very narrow i live about 3 miles from the lake and the chicago river is just west of my apt and it is part of the mississippi water shed.

1130 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:36:56pm

re: #1125 Cato the Elder

Teaches paradoxes to impressionable undergrads.

Beats what I do by a mile...

I'm glad you caught the humor in that. Some folk are kind of touchy today.

Side note, the sleep good?

1131 tradewind  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:37:02pm

re: #1095 drcordell

That paper's thinking is why deaths from prostate cancer are so much higher in the UK's health care system paradise... arbitrary cutoffs, arbitrary levels and standards for who gets treated when with no allowance for individuals.
Since prostate cancer is mostly a disease of over fifties, the unlucky minority of men who happen to get it at a younger age are just going to have to be collateral, acceptable losses for the greater good.
This is one huge reason why Universal health care sucks. Stats mean nothing when you're in the tiny percentage. You're just as sick.

1132 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:37:55pm

More tolerance and love at SFGate about the Duggars:

"scrumdawg 9/1/2009 2:29:25 PM

Will someone PLEASE sew this woman's vagina shut?"

1133 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:38:26pm

re: #1100 Salamantis

Thank you for providing the Bristol link. I will be glad to read the paper. I will get back to you and no doubt really piss you off with what is actually in it.

In the mean time though, the first sentence of the abstract.

It is difficult to project sea-level rise in response to warming climates by the end of the century, especially because the response of the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets to warming is not well understood

1134 tradewind  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:39:15pm

re: #1132 zombie

/Will someone please sew scrumdawg's mouth shut/
I think people have a right to bitch about Octomom. She costs me money.
The Duggars pay their way.

1135 Charpete67  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:39:45pm

re: #1128 drcordell

There is plenty of money in coming up with anti-AGW science. Do you know how many fossil-fuel industry funded groups currently exist to shill anti-AGW nonsense. If there was actual, REAL, science that they could get a hold of to prove their point, it would be quite valuable.

Furthermore, in the scientific community you don't gain notoriety by furthering already discovered theories. You gain notoriety by challenging what has become commonly held knowledge. Legitimate scientific proof that AGW is made up would be extremely valuable in this regard as well.

yes...but like you just said...anything to the contrary is just thrown away as "funded by big oil".

1136 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:40:14pm

re: #1113 LudwigVanQuixote

Ok, just looking at your first point.

This assumes a constant melt rate Sal... This does not affect the real system.

Why can you not see this?

No it doesn't. It mathematically demonstrates that 50 times as much ice will have to melt in the next century as in the last in order for a sea level rise to go from 8 inches to 10 meters. Which translates into a 50 fold increase in melt rate, which is utterly beyond the rational pale.

1137 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:40:42pm
1138 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:41:44pm

re: #1127 LudwigVanQuixote

Sal stop speechifying and get back to the science that you still have not addressed.

We agreed to keep this scientific.

So how about just one point - just one,

Your math assumes a constant rate of melt. The rate melt is not constant therefore your math is wrong. Can you focus on that enough to not speechify?

Wrong. See #1136.

1139 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:42:31pm

re: #933 JamesTKirk

Liberals are only pro-choice if you select the correct choice.

Hmm. Bill O'Reilly is only pro-pregnant teenagers if their parents are the correct kind of people. Notice how I don't think he represents all conservatives everywhere?

1140 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:45:48pm
1141 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:46:02pm

re: #1136 Salamantis

No it doesn't. It mathematically demonstrates that 50 times as much ice will have to melt in the next century as in the last in order for a sea level rise to go from 8 inches to 10 meters. Which translates into a 50 fold increase in melt rate, which is utterly beyond the rational pale.

Sal you got it through simple division of endpoints. That means you are plotting on a straight line and that means a constant melt rate.

So yes 50x ice would melt that part is true, but your assertion that it is wrong is based on the same faulty mathematical assumptions that your experiment was. And also this is a different claim than the one in your experiment in any case, though it uses the same wrong math.

So for the love of G-d, do you want to talk science or do you want to just dick with me?

There is the explanation of why your math does not apply. There is your explanation of why I keep saying that the response is not linear. This is super basic math. Can you acknowledge that or not?

1142 Bagua  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:46:55pm

re: #1087 Charpete67

How the hell does a thread on Pat Buchanan loves Hitler become an AGW thread?

Its called the Ludwig phonomania

1143 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:47:08pm

re: #1136 Salamantis

No it doesn't. It mathematically demonstrates that 50 times as much ice will have to melt in the next century as in the last in order for a sea level rise to go from 8 inches to 10 meters. Which translates into a 50 fold increase in melt rate, which is utterly beyond the rational pale.

At least it is utterly beyond the rational pale for a global temperature rise in the next century anywhere near the upper end prediction of 7 degrees C.

1144 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:47:29pm

re: #1117 right_wing2

It looks like humanevents.com has pulled the column as well. At least I didn't find it when I did a search of his columns.

Looks like you are right. I'm surprised. I thought it was right up their alley.

1145 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:47:38pm

re: #1140 buzzsawmonkey

My rabbi and his wife just had their 13th child.

They need one more to match my great-grandmother!

1146 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:48:19pm

re: #1140 buzzsawmonkey

My rabbi and his wife just had their 13th child.

Mazel Tov to them!

Search for "zom" on this thread for more comments by me in which I repost the liberal attitude pouring forth at the SFChronicle.

1147 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:48:37pm

re: #1138 Salamantis

Wrong. See #1136.

OK this is getting stupid. I have explained really patiently what you are doing wrong here and you just refuse to even look at it. I don't know how to make the fact that you are using an algebra one linear analysis (without even realizing that the math you are using implies a constant rate) to a problem that is non-linear in both senses of the word.

OK, real simple - your math assumes a constant melt rate. The melt rate is not constant.

Please try to understand that point.

1148 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:49:04pm

re: #978 MandyManners

The problem with that is that the Duggars have invited others to get up in their business.

The Duggars cheer me up, No matter how awful things get in my personal life, I am cheered by the fact that I don't have that many children to look after. And that if I did, I wouldn't name them all starting with J.

1149 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:49:47pm

re: #1130 Walter L. Newton

I'm glad you caught the humor in that. Some folk are kind of touchy today.

Side note, the sleep good?

Best ever. Though I do have to watch the wine intake - kinda defeats the purpose.

Another side note: You mentioned exchanging books. I'd love to do that except I can't afford a copy of mine. (See #377.) The only reason I own it is I got a translator's copy. When the poems come out, it'll be a different story...

1150 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:50:56pm

re: #1141 LudwigVanQuixote

Sal you got it through simple division of endpoints. That means you are plotting on a straight line and that means a constant melt rate.

So yes 50x ice would melt that part is true, but your assertion that it is wrong is based on the same faulty mathematical assumptions that your experiment was. And also this is a different claim than the one in your experiment in any case, though it uses the same wrong math.

So for the love of G-d, do you want to talk science or do you want to just dick with me?

There is the explanation of why your math does not apply. There is your explanation of why I keep saying that the response is not linear. This is super basic math. Can you acknowledge that or not?

It's a simple measure of the comparative volumes required, and what melt rate increase would have to obtain to achieve it. And once again, 'nonlinearity' can provide no fucking justification whatsoever for the ADDITION of 7 degrees C in global temperature to be the cause of the MULTIPLICATION of the ice cap melt rate by more than 7 SQUARED times!!!

1151 zombie  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:51:22pm

Wow, check out this EXCELLENT comment just posted at SFGate:

moxichick679/1/2009 2:38:52 PM

"While dealing w/ a bout of insomnia I caught the families show. I was prepared to see end to end trailers, possum stew, and children running around barefooted and snot-nosed. To my surprise I found an articulate, close-knit, conservative, religious family of well raised children. The older children are very responsible and respectful. They are not part of the 'me, me, me / do my own thing' generation. Both of the parents run various businesses to provide for their family. The older girls sew and the kids reuse things. They have a large beautiful house, yet the kids share rooms. The kids are home-schooled and they each play an instrument. Overall I think that they kids are well adjusted and loved. As a liberal / environmentalist, I had to 're-think' my own bias and prejudice against those that are different than me. I think that people on this blog need to do the same."

1152 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:51:52pm

re: #1148 SanFranciscoZionist

The Duggars cheer me up, No matter how awful things get in my personal life, I am cheered by the fact that I don't have that many children to look after. And that if I did, I wouldn't name them all starting with J.

re: #1123 Alouette

antiwar.com: all assholes, all the time.

lol are Chabadniks supposed to talk that way? Said with affection, because I know I fail miserably sometimes...

1153 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:54:06pm

re: #1151 zombie

Well, that's ONE.

BTW, plenty of decent (even noteworthy) people have come from the barefoot, snot-nosed, possum stew, "trailer" environment.

It's kind of an American cliche, actually.

All of this casual wealth didn't happen until after WW2. Most people make the basic logical error of assuming that THEIR cultural; background is the norm for the ages.

1154 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:55:36pm

re: #1150 Salamantis

It's a simple measure of the comparative volumes required, and what melt rate increase would have to obtain to achieve it. And once again, 'nonlinearity' can provide no fucking justification whatsoever for the ADDITION of 7 degrees C in global temperature to be the cause of the MULTIPLICATION of the ice cap melt rate by more than 7 SQUARED times!!!

Ok I quit.

I just don't know how to get through to you. Sal, you are entitled to refuse to learn the math and you are entitled to not see an algebra one about the slope of a line being a constant even when the argument is placed in front of you.

However, I respectfully ask that in the future we just agree to disagree and that if you refrain from sniping at me, I will refrain from sniping at you.

This is just not going to get anywhere. I know that you think I am wrong. Fine. How about you don't speechify and then I won't mock your lack of mathematics?

1155 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:55:49pm

re: #1148 SanFranciscoZionist

The Duggars cheer me up, No matter how awful things get in my personal life, I am cheered by the fact that I don't have that many children to look after. And that if I did, I wouldn't name them all starting with J.

Our five all start with "M" (you can thank my wife).

When they were all at home, I would point and say "You!"

/

1156 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:58:14pm

re: #1147 LudwigVanQuixote

OK this is getting stupid. I have explained really patiently what you are doing wrong here and you just refuse to even look at it. I don't know how to make the fact that you are using an algebra one linear analysis (without even realizing that the math you are using implies a constant rate) to a problem that is non-linear in both senses of the word.

OK, real simple - your math assumes a constant melt rate. The melt rate is not constant.

Please try to understand that point.

Still wrong. Once again, see #1136. I am showing what the ice cap melt rate would have to increase by in order for the 10 meter scenario to obtain. And such a massive 50 fold multiplication of melt rate in response to a 7 degree C increase in global temp is unreasonable in the extreme.

1157 Charpete67  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 2:59:30pm

re: #1154 LudwigVanQuixote

"...I will refrain from sniping at you."

"...and then I won't mock your lack of mathematics?"

...isn't that sniping?

1158 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:00:24pm

re: #1154 LudwigVanQuixote

Ok I quit.

I just don't know how to get through to you. Sal, you are entitled to refuse to learn the math and you are entitled to not see an algebra one about the slope of a line being a constant even when the argument is placed in front of you.

However, I respectfully ask that in the future we just agree to disagree and that if you refrain from sniping at me, I will refrain from sniping at you.

This is just not going to get anywhere. I know that you think I am wrong. Fine. How about you don't speechify and then I won't mock your lack of mathematics?

Once again:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

1159 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:00:52pm

re: #1149 Cato the Elder

Best ever. Though I do have to watch the wine intake - kinda defeats the purpose.

Another side note: You mentioned exchanging books. I'd love to do that except I can't afford a copy of mine. (See #377.) The only reason I own it is I got a translator's copy. When the poems come out, it'll be a different story...

Understood. If you ever want a "Rose Garden" copy, just email me. Yes, I'd like to see the poems.

1160 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:02:17pm

re: #1136 Salamantis

No it is not, because the melt rates are accelerating due to the feedbacks. By your reasoning even IPCC would be wrong and you accept that.

1161 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:04:02pm

re: #1157 Charpete67

"...I will refrain from sniping at you."

"...and then I won't mock your lack of mathematics?"

...isn't that sniping?

You are right, but it is reference more to the numerous times have gotten frustrated at the refusal to look at mathematics and became very frustrated - as I am becoming now. Therefore, I am going to try to just get some dinner and walk away before I get frustrated again.

1162 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:08:08pm

re: #1160 ludwigvanquixote

No it is not, because the melt rates are accelerating due to the feedbacks. By your reasoning even IPCC would be wrong and you accept that.

Ben Santer first altered the science chapter in the IPCC’s 1996 report.

1163 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:12:33pm

re: #1160 ludwigvanquixote

No it is not, because the melt rates are accelerating due to the feedbacks. By your reasoning even IPCC would be wrong and you accept that.

The model I present is assuming that the ice cap began melting 50 times as fast as last century's average beginning right now, even though temps will only gradually rise. It's heavily weighted in your favor, and still presents an obvious impossibility. For the 10 meter scenario to actually obtain, the present melt rate would have to gradually rise to far MORE than a 50 fold increase by the end of the next century in response to a gradual 7 degree C temp increase.

1164 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:16:56pm

re: #1161 ludwigvanquixote

You are right, but it is reference more to the numerous times have gotten frustrated at the refusal to look at mathematics and became very frustrated - as I am becoming now. Therefore, I am going to try to just get some dinner and walk away before I get frustrated again.

You just cannot find a flaw in my mathematics, but are distressed by what its correctness entails for the credibility of your doomsday scenario.

1165 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:20:25pm

re: #1151 zombie

Wow, check out this EXCELLENT comment just posted at SFGate:

moxichick679/1/2009 2:38:52 PM

"While dealing w/ a bout of insomnia I caught the families show. I was prepared to see end to end trailers, possum stew, and children running around barefooted and snot-nosed. To my surprise I found an articulate, close-knit, conservative, religious family of well raised children. The older children are very responsible and respectful. They are not part of the 'me, me, me / do my own thing' generation. Both of the parents run various businesses to provide for their family. The older girls sew and the kids reuse things. They have a large beautiful house, yet the kids share rooms. The kids are home-schooled and they each play an instrument. Overall I think that they kids are well adjusted and loved. As a liberal / environmentalist, I had to 're-think' my own bias and prejudice against those that are different than me. I think that people on this blog need to do the same."

I have an uncle with 10 kids. His sister visited them with a boyfriend of hers. Afterward, the boyfriend said he had always thought people should only have two kids, until he met that family. Funny how real people are so much more likable than statistics.

1166 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:22:55pm

To revise my contribution to the playwrights jokes:

Plato was a comic poet,
Though many people do not know it.
The stuff he wrote for Socrates
Still makes a mock of sophistries.

Note: There was in fact a comic poet named Plato. He wrote 30 plays, of which only the titles have survived.

I'm calling this ditty Plato the Playwright, or, Stand-up Socrates.

1167 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:28:17pm
1168 Dad O' Blondes  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:31:09pm

How appropriate for Pat to contribute to the 70th anniversary of the invasion of Poland:

"September 1, 1939, was the first day of a war that would last for 2,174 days, and it brought the first dead in a war that would claim an average of 27,600 lives every day, or 1,150 an hour, or 19 a minute, or one death every 3 seconds. Within four weeks of the blitzkrieg attack on Poland by sixty German divisions, the lightening war had killed more than 100,000 Polish soldiers, and 25,000 civilians had perished in bombing attacks."

Hitler didn't want war? Funny way to show it.

The above quote here from "An Army At Dawn" -- Rick Atkinson's Pulitzer Prize winning account of the Allied invasion of North Africa.

.

1169 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:34:06pm

re: #1133 LudwigVanQuixote

Thank you for providing the Bristol link. I will be glad to read the paper. I will get back to you and no doubt really piss you off with what is actually in it.

In the mean time though, the first sentence of the abstract.

It is difficult to project sea-level rise in response to warming climates by the end of the century, especially because the response of the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets to warming is not well understood

I already answered that point here, by citing the REST of the paragraph:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

It is difficult to project sea-level rise in response to warming climates by the end of the century, especially because the response of the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets to warming is not well understood1. However, sea-level fluctuations in response to changing climate have been reconstructed for the past 22,000 years from fossil data, a period that covers the transition from the Last Glacial Maximum to the warm Holocene interglacial period. Here we present a simple model of the integrated sea-level response to temperature change that implicitly includes contributions from the thermal expansion and the reduction of continental ice. Our model explains much of the centennial-scale variability observed over the past 22,000 years, and estimates 4–24 cm of sea-level rise during the twentieth century, in agreement with the Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change1 (IPCC). In response to the minimum (1.1 °C) and maximum (6.4 °C) warming projected for AD 2100 by the IPCC models, our model predicts 7 and 82 cm of sea-level rise by the end of the twenty-first century, respectively. The range of sea-level rise is slightly larger than the estimates from the IPCC models of 18–76 cm, but is sufficiently similar to increase confidence in the projections.

And I explained to you what that means here:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

In other words, it has correlated temperature with sea level for the past 22000 years. And that correlation IMPLICITLY TAKES CONTRIBUTIONS from THERMAL EXPANSION and the REDUCTION of CONTINENTAL ICE into ACCOUNT. The selfsame things that you falsely claim are NOT being taken into account. Because whatever is happening to the ice caps as a result of rising temps NOW, happened to them BEFORE when temps rose. And resulted in the sea levels that the Bristol report noted.

1170 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:36:33pm

re: #1155 OldLineTexan

Our five all start with "M" (you can thank my wife).

When they were all at home, I would point and say "You!"

/

OK, five I could see. But double-digits--you need a new letter once you have a Joy-Anna and a Johannah both. Me, I think they should have named them like the church mice in "Ben and Me", alphabetically.

1171 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:57:24pm

re: #1164 Salamantis

You just cannot find a flaw in my mathematics, but are distressed by what its correctness entails for the credibility of your doomsday scenario.

SAL THE FLAW IN THE MATH IS THAT IT DOES NOT REFLECT THE REAL SYSTEM!

What is wrong with you?

Now you have to speechify some more like you've won some debate when you actually aren't even smart enough to understand the very, very basic point that a straight line has a constant slope?

The rate of melt is increasing.

This is observed in each and every paper that you have seen - even your Bristol paper, and the fact is that even the Bristol paper acknowledges that the increasing rate may increase more than they assert.

There are many other papers that talk about how Greenland and the Arctic are going much more quickly than IPCC or your Bristol paper asserts.

There are direct measurements.

Why is it so impossible for you to just put this together? Doe sit take a sledgehammer to get through to you that the math you are arguing is not the math that applies?

1172 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 4:00:00pm

re: #1169 Salamantis

IN the last 22000 years there has not been the man made forcing Sal. You are just cherry picking and you really don't even understand what is being said.

It is like talking to a wall.

NOW,

can we get back to your experiment which you felt conclusively proved something. Stop dancing around with me. It is very rude and very insulting.

I listed severl times why your experiment does not apply.

Can you either acknowledge why this is so, or refute me?

Don't tell me any other crap and let's knock this down first.

1173 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 4:05:28pm

re: #1116 drcordell

The ultimate point is, we're just some douchebags commenting on the internet. There are nerds at Stanford and many other of the finest research institutions in the world who have devoted their entire lives to studying global warming. Why should their conclusions be completely discounted?

You mean like the nerds responsible for the Bristol and the IPCC and the EOS studies?

1174 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 4:18:05pm

re: #1171 LudwigVanQuixote

SAL THE FLAW IN THE MATH IS THAT IT DOES NOT REFLECT THE REAL SYSTEM!

What is wrong with you?

Now you have to speechify some more like you've won some debate when you actually aren't even smart enough to understand the very, very basic point that a straight line has a constant slope?

The rate of melt is increasing.

This is observed in each and every paper that you have seen - even your Bristol paper, and the fact is that even the Bristol paper acknowledges that the increasing rate may increase more than they assert.

There are many other papers that talk about how Greenland and the Arctic are going much more quickly than IPCC or your Bristol paper asserts.

There are direct measurements.

Why is it so impossible for you to just put this together? Doe sit take a sledgehammer to get through to you that the math you are arguing is not the math that applies?

NO study predicts that the ice cap melt rate will multiply by anywhere remotely near 50 fold in the next hundred years in response to a 7 degree C increase in temperature. But mathematically, that’s what would HAVE to happen for the ice caps to totally melt and the sea levels to rise 10 meters in the next century. And the sea level has never in the past 22000 years risen to a level 10 meters higher than it is now when the global temp was 7 degrees C warmer than at present, as it has been several times in that timespan. Which is why it won't - in fact can't - happen this time, either. In fact, it has never risen more than a meter higher than it is now in response to a 7 degree C temperature increase.

Why are you incapable of understanding this?

Or is it just that you don't want to?

1175 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 4:28:57pm

re: #1172 LudwigVanQuixote

IN the last 22000 years there has not been the man made forcing Sal. You are just cherry picking and you really don't even understand what is being said.

It is like talking to a wall.

NOW,

can we get back to your experiment which you felt conclusively proved something. Stop dancing around with me. It is very rude and very insulting.

I listed severl times why your experiment does not apply.

Can you either acknowledge why this is so, or refute me?

Don't tell me any other crap and let's knock this down first.

Temperature increases don't care whether they results from natural or anthropogenic causes. And neither do the ice melt rate increases that correlate with them.

1176 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 4:33:17pm

re: #1174 Salamantis

NO study predicts that the ice cap melt rate will multiply by anywhere remotely near 50 fold in the next hundred years in response to a 7 degree C increase in temperature. But mathematically, that’s what would HAVE to happen for the ice caps to totally melt and the sea levels to rise 10 meters in the next century. And the sea level has never in the past 22000 years risen to a level 10 meters higher than it is now when the global temp was 7 degrees C warmer than at present, as it has been several times in that timespan. Which is why it won't - in fact can't - happen this time, either.

Why are you incapable of understanding this?

Because it is not true.

Here is a paper that predicts several meter rise.

[Link: www.sciencemag.org...]

Abstract:

Sea-level rise from melting of polar ice sheets is one of the largest potential threats of future climate change. Polar warming by the year 2100 may reach levels similar to those of 130,000 to 127,000 years ago that were associated with sea levels several meters above modern levels; both the Greenland Ice Sheet and portions of the Antarctic Ice Sheet may be vulnerable. The record of past ice-sheet melting indicates that the rate of future melting and related sea-level rise could be faster than widely thought.

These papers call for over 1 meter.

[Link: www.sciencemag.org...]
[Link: www.sciencemag.org...]


Will three papers to the contrary of your false assertion that no-one claims above 1 meter do?

Now will you stop the insulting me with your dancing and get back to your experiment?

1177 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 4:37:32pm

re: #1175 Salamantis

Here is some more about those accelerated rates you ignore.

[Link: www.sciencemag.org...]

Here are two papers on why IPCC is too low an estimate.

[Link: www.sciencemag.org...]

[Link: www.iop.org...]

Can we get back to talking about your conclusive experiment? Stop dodging.

1178 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 4:38:48pm

re: #1177 LudwigVanQuixote

Ahh just one more paper on why IPCC is too low an estimate.
[Link: www.sciencemag.org...]

1179 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 5:03:49pm

You post papers from March 2006 (no estimate), March 2005 (no estimate), January 2007 (predicting 0.5 - 1.4 meters), a dead link, February 2006 (no estimate), a hysterical March 2007 Hansen paper, and a July 2007 paper. At least three of these came out BEFORE the 2007 IPCC estimate, and NONE of them had the benefit of the info. from the Bristol paper.

/and you accuse ME of relying on out-of-date science!

Got anything current?

I didn't think so; credible current papers would have to take the close correlation between IPCC 2007 and Bristol 2009 into account. Which is why they don't make such grandiosely catastrophic claims.

At least not any more.

1180 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 6:59:43pm

re: #1179 Salamantis

You post papers from March 2006 (no estimate), March 2005 (no estimate), January 2007 (predicting 0.5 - 1.4 meters), a dead link, February 2006 (no estimate), a hysterical March 2007 Hansen paper, and a July 2007 paper. At least three of these came out BEFORE the 2007 IPCC estimate, and NONE of them had the benefit of the info. from the Bristol paper.

/and you accuse ME of relying on out-of-date science!

Got anything current?

I didn't think so; credible current papers would have to take the close correlation between IPCC 2007 and Bristol 2009 into account. Which is why they don't make such grandiosely catastrophic claims.

At least not any more.

Sal, Hansen may seem hysterical to you, however, simply because he is a pinata of rightwing cranks does not make everything he says wrong. That is also to show you that indeed there are plenty of people in the field who say much worse is coming than I do.

Further the links are from either science or Nature, they are top flight journals.

Further don't hand me that just because one paper is a few months older or younger than another does it mean that it can be discounted or bolstered up.

You claim that no one claims greater than one meter rise in the community. I found you multiple links where that is indeed the case.

Now, stop the side show, the evidence is there that you are wrong.

Let's get back to your other false claims.

How exactly did your experiment conclusively prove anything?

ANSWER THE QUESTIONS AND STOP DICKING AROUND.

1181 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 7:00:33pm

re: #1179 Salamantis

You post papers from March 2006 (no estimate), March 2005 (no estimate), January 2007 (predicting 0.5 - 1.4 meters), a dead link, February 2006 (no estimate), a hysterical March 2007 Hansen paper, and a July 2007 paper. At least three of these came out BEFORE the 2007 IPCC estimate, and NONE of them had the benefit of the info. from the Bristol paper.

/and you accuse ME of relying on out-of-date science!

Got anything current?

I didn't think so; credible current papers would have to take the close correlation between IPCC 2007 and Bristol 2009 into account. Which is why they don't make such grandiosely catastrophic claims.

At least not any more.

And cut the shit Sal, you don;t read the journals and you haven't even read the one you are talking about. So stop acting as if it is the bellweather that the whole community follows.

1182 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 7:32:23pm

re: #1180 Ludwigvanquixote

Sal, Hansen may seem hysterical to you, however, simply because he is a pinata of rightwing cranks does not make everything he says wrong. That is also to show you that indeed there are plenty of people in the field who say much worse is coming than I do.

Further the links are from either science or Nature, they are top flight journals.

Further don't hand me that just because one paper is a few months older or younger than another does it mean that it can be discounted or bolstered up.

You claim that no one claims greater than one meter rise in the community. I found you multiple links where that is indeed the case.

Now, stop the side show, the evidence is there that you are wrong.

Let's get back to your other false claims.

How exactly did your experiment conclusively prove anything?

ANSWER THE QUESTIONS AND STOP DICKING AROUND.

re: #1181 Ludwigvanquixote

And cut the shit Sal, you don;t read the journals and you haven't even read the one you are talking about. So stop acting as if it is the bellweather that the whole community follows.

Bullus Shittus. A few fucking months, you say?

The newest of those papers you linked to is more than TWO FUCKING YEARS OLD! But both the Bristol and the EOS paper, which I brought to the discussion, are summer of 2009; state of the current art.

Your cutting edge is duller than dirt. And nearly as old, in climatological research terms.

It is surpassingly obvious that you searched for more current links that support your cataclysmic contentions, just so you could prove me wrong. It is equally obvious that you were unable to find them; otherwise, you would be posting links to them, rather than trying to divert attention from the fact that you couldn't fucking find any by blusteringly but vainly trying to change the subject from the obvious fact that you lack all current climatological support for your bizarre and obsessive catastrophic infatuation.

Once again, it clear as glass who is supported by current climatological science - and who is not. And which of us is and is not being scientific about this issue.

Come back when you have some credible contemporary empirical support for your emotionally invested convictions. Ungrounded propaganda in service to your visceral beliefs and desires just doesn't cut the mustard around here.

As it stands now, your assertions are so two years ago. And clearly superseded by subsequent Sal-linked science.

1183 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 7:46:37pm

Oh yeah; and I brought the August 28th, 2009 Science Daily article that supersedes the ecohuddle link to the discussion, too:

Small Fluctuations In Solar Activity, Large Influence On Climate
[Link: www.sciencedaily.com...]

Cutting edge science; get it while it's fresh!

/and get that stale old superseded shit outta here

1184 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 8:47:34pm

re: #1183 Salamantis

Oh yeah; and I brought the August 28th, 2009 Science Daily article that supersedes the ecohuddle link to the discussion, too:

Small Fluctuations In Solar Activity, Large Influence On Climate
[Link: www.sciencedaily.com...]

Cutting edge science; get it while it's fresh!

/and get that stale old superseded shit outta here

Sal, and once again you dodge the points I am bringing. You are being nothing more than insulting and then you go on a ding spree. How mature.

But before we get back to your ignorance, here is what was written about your newest article, by me several days ago.. Too bad you didn't read it, or the article...

Here is the abstract from the paper itself. You see, this is referring to a very technical detail of things that might need to included into present models to predict el nino in one part of the Earth's system during 11 year cycles.

The warming trend is much larger than 11 years.

Some seem to think that any climate article with the word sun in it, is somehow a magic bullet. This is just false. Suppose for an instant that you were correct beyond your wildest dreams, and that decreased solar activity did indeed have a pronounced effect on the rate of warming...

WE ARE STILL WARMING EVEN THOUGH THE SUN IS GIVING US A BREAK! what would that mean for when things get back to normal? But here is the abstract of the paper this article talks about. Please do us the kindness of pointing out the part that contradicts AGW.

One of the mysteries regarding Earth’s climate system response to variations in solar output is how the relatively small fluctuations of the 11-year solar cycle can produce the magnitude of the observed climate signals in the tropical Pacific associated with such solar variability. Two mechanisms, the top-down stratospheric response of ozone to fluctuations of shortwave solar forcing and the bottom-up coupled ocean-atmosphere surface response, are included in versions of three global climate models, with either mechanism acting alone or both acting together. We show that the two mechanisms act together to enhance the climatological off-equatorial tropical precipitation maxima in the Pacific, lower the eastern equatorial Pacific sea surface temperatures during peaks in the 11-year solar cycle, and reduce low-latitude clouds to amplify the solar forcing at the surface.

Now how does that contradict anything?

Sal I am tired of wasting my time with you. You did not read the paper you brought. You refuse to look at the paper you just brought. You do not acknowledge any fact that you do not wish to see. You duck and evade all direct questions pointed at you. You do this as some sort of strange cover for the fact that you do not know anything.

You do not care to debate science. You do not understand science and you insult me by wasting my time.

Enough of you.

Answer the questions put to you, or realize that you are a fraud a fake and a particularly stupid liar.

1185 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 1, 2009 8:50:33pm

re: #1182 Salamantis

And one other thing, come back when you learn Algebra.

1186 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 4:16:36am

There are names for superseded science. One of them is 'irrelevant." Another one is 'falsified."

You remind me of that woman in the front passenger seat of the car talking with her backseat-sitting teenaged son when he asks for more cellphone minutes. She asks him, “Didn’t I already give you some minutes?” “Those were old minutes; I threw them away”, he answers. To which she replies, “Those were rollover minutes; they were perfectly good!”

But there the analogy ends. Some cellphone companies may have rollover minutes, but once empirical science has been superseded by subsequent studies, you can’t just roll it over and grant it further credibility.

1187 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 4:21:51am

re: #1185 LudwigVanQuixote

And one other thing, come back when you learn Algebra.

Come back when you learn addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. Because you obviously lack the mathematical acumen to tell that mine are correct.

1188 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 5:16:18am

re: #1184 ludwigvanquixote

Sal, and once again you dodge the points I am bringing. You are being nothing more than insulting and then you go on a ding spree. How mature.

I only downdinged you after I discovered you had been downdinging me. It’s called responding in kind, you whingeing nimrod.

But before we get back to your ignorance, here is what was written about your newest article, by me several days ago.. Too bad you didn't read it, or the article...

Here is the abstract from the paper itself. You see, this is referring to a very technical detail of things that might need to included into present models to predict el nino in one part of the Earth's system during 11 year cycles.

The warming trend is much larger than 11 years.

Some seem to think that any climate article with the word sun in it, is somehow a magic bullet. This is just false. Suppose for an instant that you were correct beyond your wildest dreams, and that decreased solar activity did indeed have a pronounced effect on the rate of warming...

WE ARE STILL WARMING EVEN THOUGH THE SUN IS GIVING US A BREAK! what would that mean for when things get back to normal? But here is the abstract of the paper this article talks about. Please do us the kindness of pointing out the part that contradicts AGW.

One of the mysteries regarding Earth’s climate system response to variations in solar output is how the relatively small fluctuations of the 11-year solar cycle can produce the magnitude of the observed climate signals in the tropical Pacific associated with such solar variability. Two mechanisms, the top-down stratospheric response of ozone to fluctuations of shortwave solar forcing and the bottom-up coupled ocean-atmosphere surface response, are included in versions of three global climate models, with either mechanism acting alone or both acting together. We show that the two mechanisms act together to enhance the climatological off-equatorial tropical precipitation maxima in the Pacific, lower the eastern equatorial Pacific sea surface temperatures during peaks in the 11-year solar cycle, and reduce low-latitude clouds to amplify the solar forcing at the surface.

Now how does that contradict anything?

That would be this post of yours:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Too bad you’re either too blind or too stupid to read just two posts down, where I answered you driveled twaddle, or else too cognitively challenged to remember reading it:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Ludwig, your tiny little mind is obviously incapable of grasping the possibility that there are simultaneous shorter and longer solar cycles overlain (periods of several more active sunspot cycles in a row followed by periods of less active sunspot cycles in a row); else how does one explain such things as the Maunder Minimum, which is now considered to be a likely cause for the Little Ice Age?

[Link: www.leif.org...]

I provided you with this link before; apparently, you have cherry-picked to ignore it. Real scientists don't selectively accentuate and minimize empirical evidence in order to try to justify extra-empirical claims.

Of course there are also terrestrial wobble cycles; one of them causes our view of the astrological houses to cycle through once every 26,000 years. And I'm sure that there is some overall pattern that integrates all of these in an even broader cycle.

Also, according to three of the four measurement indices, we have been COOLING, not warming, for more than the last decade:

[Link: reallyrealclimate.blogspot.com...]

to be continued

1189 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 5:35:01am

re: #1184 ludwigvanquixote

continued

Sal: And it sure as hell contradicts the ecohuddle assertion that solar cycles had nothing to do with climate variations.

Why don’t you stop your fucking recycling and get that weak debunked shit outta here. Or maybe that’s all you’ve got left, and you have nothing else. In which case you should just give it the fuck up.

Sal I am tired of wasting my time with you. You did not read the paper you brought. You refuse to look at the paper you just brought. You do not acknowledge any fact that you do not wish to see. You duck and evade all direct questions pointed at you. You do this as some sort of strange cover for the fact that you do not know anything.

You do not care to debate science. You do not understand science and you insult me by wasting my time.

Enough of you.

Answer the questions put to you, or realize that you are a fraud a fake and a particularly stupid liar.

So now, according to you, the self-anointed arbiter of all things scientific, Bristol and EOS and the cooling chart and the sunspot paper aren't just the most up-to-date science we have, they aren't science at all, Ludwig? And why? Because they debunk your cherished widdle ten meter Noahide-Flood-within-a-century-catastrophe notion?

And you just couldn’t restrain yourself, could you? Assholes like you rarely can. You just had to cough up yet more false and gratuitous ad hominems and lies.

Well, the last part of that prior answer of mine at
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

eminently suffices as a reply:

As far as your megalomanic assertion of the inperial royal 'we' in order to arrogate to yourself the divine right to speak for everyone else on this list what their opinions of me are, all I will say is that while I haven't seen anyone here other than you call me a pathetic idiot (and you repeatedly intone some variant or other of this epithet as if you were chanting a magical mantra, and as if interminable repetition of your libelous lies will somehow render them true), what we actually HAVE seen posted from some people besides myself regarding you is that you are sadly and drastically afflicted with the complete and utter misconception that a combination of gratuitous appeals to your own alleged and dubious authority and the dishonest ad hominem slagging of whoever refuses to be your ego-fellating sycophant actually proves jack shit in a debate besides the fact that you are a clueless and egocentric anus.

Sal: in other words, to put it in words that you might have a chance of understanding, you don't even possess the brains that evolution bestowed upon a Gila Monster. But you compensate by being far more malevolent and repulsive, not to mention being every bit as cluelessly self-absorbed.

1190 korla pundit  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 7:56:10am

re: #74 Charles

Maybe they just can't stop loving Buchanan because of his years as a Nixon advisor, and the great things that stint did for the Republican Party.

We'll never know exactly what advice he gave Nixon, but who can say? Why, without Buchanan's sage advice in Tricky Dick's ear, maybe Gerald Ford would never have been elected... oh, wait.

1191 korla pundit  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 8:28:01am

I don't know how this thread morphed from Hitler and James... er, I mean Pat Buchanan into a battle over global warming/climate change/whatever.

I won't argue over the science of longterm climate forecasts, because I never actually see either side giving an inch even on the facts of the case, let alone the conclusions.

So I will suffice to say that it doesn't matter whether I believe it or not. I personally can do nothing about it if it's true that carbon dioxide causes warming. No sacrifice I make would ever make a measurable difference in any way. And what is being proposed is sacrifice of draconian proportions and irreversibly incorporates government intrusion into every facet of my existence.

The entire economy of the world will be stood on its head in the name of AGW, and all the people insisting that we further destroy our way of life to avoid imminent catastrophe are jetting around the world in an orgy of conferences and conventions, and it's all a big party. They tell us we have to stop using toilet paper, we have to give up incandescent light bulbs, we have to buy the cars they tell us to buy. But they get on a private jet and fly to their private airport and embark onto their private houseboat.

If I stopped using toilet paper altogether, how many sheets (single-ply) would it take to make up for one flight to Bali? And not a commercial flight either.

The problem is not the science of global warming, even though I have large problems with that. The problem is the unscientific and opportunistic "solutions." It is being used as a wedge to dismantle basic property rights, states rights, privacy rights, economic liberty and others. Carbon credits, no matter how many you buy, do not undo any damage. Where does this money go? And what good does it do for the environment?

It is a way for the rich, who can afford to buy into the carbon credit club, special privileges to enjoy their lifestyle as they do now. Everybody else will have to sacrifice, not enjoying the benefits of modern technology that they enjoy today. It is a power grab. And it sets up an unelected bureaucracy to implement it all. But carbon output by humans (already dwarfed by natural carbon emissions) would not be decreased in the least. So the stated problem is never solved. The only accomplishment is the shift to an elitist plutocracy.

If the current drive was to curb pollution because it is unhealthy to breathe in, because asthma is on the rise, because it is killing off bees or whatever, I could get behind that. I hate smog just as much as any crying T.V. Indian. It's demonstrable, and maybe you could actually even address it, and measure success. It's when the EPA decides that CO2 is a dangerous gas that my BS alarm goes off. I think the trees of the rainforest would be very unhappy with less carbon dioxide.

1192 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:16:10am

re: #1188 Salamantis

re: #1189 Salamantis

And this would be yet another example of your inability to reason or listen.

The new article does not contradict anything and you bizarre yelling does not make it so.

But that has nothing to do with the false assertions of yours that you keep trying to squirm out of.

Could it be that you now realize that your conclusive experiment was not so conclusive?

Could it be that you now realize that your conclusive math was actually the wrong math to apply?

Sal you are writing speech after speech with no content, and no understanding. You are getting progressively more hysterical as you do it. You are being more than a little rude by not answering what was asked. And by bringing more and more simply wrong stuff to clutter the discussion. I can sit here all day ad debunk evey bit of crap you bring...

No one claims more than one meter you shouted again and again - well except for those papers from Science and Nature but they don't count...

There are many more than those Sal.

But why bother? Go away. You are clearly not worth it. You don't have the honesty to stick to a point and you don't have the honesty to even remotely acknowledge what is being brought to you. It is also insulting to have you possibly think that you endless squirming and prevarication counts as anything worth anyone's time.

Just go away. It is degrading one so ignorant or arrogant or blind as you thinks himself capable of this discussion.

1193 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:19:34am

re: #1189 Salamantis

Answer the questions and stop dicking around.

1194 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:20:05am

re: #1188 Salamantis

or just go away.

1195 sffilk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:54:29am

re: #1068 brazilofmux

The transition from the group exchange to Pat's monologue was a planned part of the program. It wasn't as if he said something something specific that offended the rest of the panel enough that they walked off. Just before his monologue, they were covering the same issue, they were in his face, but he was keeping his power dry.

And then, on cue, there was the transition to him standing up, the lights dimming, the rest of the panel walking off stage behind him, and he went deep into his pitch.

Maybe there is a transcript floating around, but I don't have a pointer to it.

Thank you anyway.


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