George Will Calls for Immediate Retreat

Politics • Views: 2,898

Now that Afghanistan and Iraq are Barack Obama’s problems, it’s suddenly becoming fashionable for right-wing pundits to call for cutting and running.

Days after urging the withdrawal of U.S. combat forces from Afghanistan, conservative columnist George F. Will is calling on the administration to speed up the planned drawdown in Iraq, according to publishing sources.

Will concludes that America’s work is done in Iraq. So in one week, one of the nation’s best-known conservatives has endorsed U.S. withdrawal from both wars.

“Two more years of U.S. military presence cannot control whether that is in Iraq’s future,” Will writes in a column posted Thursday on WashingtonPost.com, which links the column from its Opinions page with: “Time to Leave Iraq.”

“If … the surge permanently dampened sectarian violence, all U.S. forces can come home sooner than the end of 2011. If, however, the surge did not so succeed, U.S. forces must come home sooner.”

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348 comments
1 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:25:06pm

Cheese eating surrender monkey.

2 Pianobuff  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:26:54pm

George Won't

3 Taqyia2Me  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:28:11pm

The only way I would agree with this is if the administration is not willing to provide the resources necessary for success. That I am not convinced the admistration has the courage to provide the necessary resources is what gives me pause.

4 Ojoe  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:28:55pm

Keeping after the Jihadis prevents them from building momentum. Let's not make the mistakes of the 1930s again. So far we are not. I note that London/Madrid/Beslan type incidents have become fewer.

How I detest politicians.

5 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:29:15pm

Disgusting. Where are our principles of supporting freedom and democracy now? Screw you, Will.

6 MJ  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:30:06pm

Isolationism is back in style within elements of the Right.

7 Bob Dillon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:30:11pm

Armchair and self appointed prognosticator Generals ... will always be with us and the masses who hang on their every word will echo their talking points without an original thought ever entering their minds.
What a way to go thru life.

8 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:30:33pm

Smart move on George's part. Call Obama's hand, and put this all solely in Obama's lap. Then we can certainly stop hearing about how he inherited this from the Bush administration. Obama own this.

9 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:31:05pm

21st century Lindbergh. Bite me, George.

10 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:31:43pm

George Will's brain is absent without leave.

11 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:31:51pm

We ain't going anywhere soon...

We'll have significant forces there 20 years from now regardless of who is in charge of the swamp on the Potomac.

12 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:31:55pm

George Will had been taken behind the woodshed for his comments on Iraq and Afghanistan by a few folks already.

Let's see.

Foreign Policy.

Bill Kristol.

And I can't track it down at the moment, but Will has gone wobbly at times over Iraq.

It's my own take that Will can't be more horribly wrong about the situation in Afghanistan, and that his cut and run is no less reprehensible than when the Democrats were calling for it when Bush was in the White House. Will is supposed to know better, but now that there's hard lifting to be done, he's not having any of it.

Will also misses the fundamental issue here - that we have to deny al Qaeda and the Taliban a safe haven, and if you're signaling that you're going to cut and run, all the Taliban have to do is simply sit back and wait - and they'll move right back in. It's one of the big reasons I'm strenuously opposed to setting any kind of timetable, let alone announcing any aspects of one since it provides intel and tactical and logistical information to our enemies at a time when it can be best exploited.

13 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:32:00pm

re: #5 Sharmuta

"Wilsonian" or "Neo-conservative" foreign policy appears to have been some sort of fashion statement among the pundits and Beltway crowd.

New season... new fashion.

14 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:32:34pm

Has everybody on the right lost their mind?

15 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:33:23pm

If we leave before the Afghani forces are ready to maintain order, we will leave a vacuum that will only get filled by people who want to dominate the Afghanis, and plot ruin and destruction against their neighbors and the West. We cannot do this- it's vital to remain in the post 9/11 world in Afghanistan. We cannot abandon them and except to remain safe.

16 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:33:35pm

Cut and Run? I know I've heard that somewhere before...

17 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:33:38pm

re: #14 HelloDare

Their bodily fluids have been poisoned.

18 SixDegrees  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:33:39pm

re: #14 HelloDare

Has everybody on the right lost their mind?

Everybody on the right seems to be trying to build market share.

Regardless of costs or consequences.

19 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:33:57pm

I'm wondering how much of this asinine bullshit can ultimately be traced back to the renewed and toxic influence of Luap Nor.

First we get Nirther conspiracies from former Troofers and latent crypto-racists.
Then we have Anti-Federal Reserve Rhetoric.
Then the calls for the Gold Standard start.

Now, isolationism...

The GOP can go back to living in 1799, but I wont.

20 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:34:40pm

The Paul-Alex Jones segment of the rightwing spectrum has always been anti-war. As with so many other issues, their insanity is spreading into the mainstream.

At one time, I thought of George Will as a possible heir to the great William F. Buckley. Not anymore, he has sold his heritage for a mess of pottage.

21 MJ  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:35:05pm

Some actual facts which which Will ignored:

Will on Afghanistan
[Frederick W. Kagan]

In response to George Will’s column “Why are we still in Afghanistan?,” it is worth noting some factual inaccuracies. There are considerably more than 4,000 counterinsurgents in Helmand Province. Will may find the British contribution “risible” — a rather offensive statement considering the number of soldiers Britain has lost in Afghanistan and the size of its military contributions to both Iraq and Afghanistan; others might make various more specific criticisms of the British performance from a technical perspective; but there are still 9,000 British military personnel in Afghanistan — most of them in Helmand, and most of them fighting hard...

[Link: corner.nationalreview.com...]

22 MJ  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:37:00pm

Another good read here:

Beating Back the Pre-9/11 Crowd

[Link: www.commentarymagazine.com...]

23 Ojoe  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:39:05pm

Down with political morons.

*spit*

24 kay1212  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:39:20pm

This looks like a shameless political ploy.

25 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:40:25pm

re: #19 ArchangelMichael

I'm wondering how much of this asinine bullshit can ultimately be traced back to the renewed and toxic influence of Luap Nor.

First we get Nirther conspiracies from former Troofers and latent crypto-racists.
Then we have Anti-Federal Reserve Rhetoric.
Then the calls for the Gold Standard start.

Now, isolationism...

The GOP can go back to living in 1799, but I wont.

Not just ron paul, but pat buchanan too. The paleo-cons never went away, they're just coming back in fashion.

26 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:40:53pm

George Will please come to the courtesy counter. We have located your brain. Oh, damn -- that's right, you can't hear us.

27 Bob Dillon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:42:22pm

re: #12 lawhawk

One would think the Vietnam lesson would have been learned.

But of course lessons learned and politics in the moment are usually not applicable.

28 LSD  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:43:41pm

George Will you ignorant slut!

29 brainsample  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:44:33pm

Yes, but is he calling for the abolition of Switzerland?

30 Shug  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:45:05pm

Time to Snatch Defeat from the Jaws of Victory and blame it on Obama

shameful

31 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:45:13pm

re: #25 Sharmuta

Not just ron paul, but pat buchanan too. The paleo-cons never went away, they're just coming back in fashion.

Pat Buchanan would look good in epaulets. Think about it. Scary.

32 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:45:52pm
33 JohnH  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:45:54pm

Fashionable? Now one guy is a trend? Yea, right.

34 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:45:58pm

Uncle Jimbo over at BlackFive has a little to say about this.

35 midwestgak  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:46:15pm

Here's a question. Who, just name one person, who you would support in any governmental leadership position.

36 Big Steve  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:46:19pm

With the Lizard Army forbearance, I would like to go OT for a moment.

Why is it that the President is constantly telling the Press that photos of his children are off-limits and his children should not be politicized...yet the official White House releases a cutsey-pie photo of Sasha Obama hiding behind the sofa in the Oval office ala John John Kennedy. If the children are off-limits, they should be off-limits for all purposes.

37 davinvalkri  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:47:10pm

Well, at least he seems to be one of a very few; National Review, Blackfive, LGF, and others seem to recognize Will's column as an "are you nuts?!" moment.

38 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:48:06pm

Can we question his patriotism?

39 callahan23  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:48:47pm

It has been informative 'n fun again, thanks for the company.
's late here and I need some sleep.
- - -
Gals 'n guys, Lizards and 'menschen'.
See y'all down the road.
I love you {Lizardim) - mostly. Really!

40 SalsaNChips  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:49:14pm

Regrettably, George Will seems to be misinformed about the situation in Afghanistan and Iraq or he would not be advocating early withdrawal.

What other "right-wing pundits" are calling for this?

41 Shug  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:49:35pm

I always thought George looked an awful lot like Cindy Sheehan.
Seriously, do a side by side.

now he's acting like her but at least Cindy has a good reason and has been consistent

42 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:49:39pm

re: #35 midwestgak

Here's a question. Who, just name one person, who you would support in any governmental leadership position.

I like this guy so far.

43 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:50:13pm

re: #39 callahan23

Nite, Cal.

Unicorn fart dreams and all that.

44 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:50:57pm

re: #41 Shug

I always thought George looked an awful lot like Cindy Sheehan.
Seriously, do a side by side.

now he's acting like her but at least Cindy has a good reason and has been consistent

Cindy's more butch.

45 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:51:15pm

re: #8 Walter L. Newton

Smart move on George's part. Call Obama's hand, and put this all solely in Obama's lap. Then we can certainly stop hearing about how he inherited this from the Bush administration. Obama own this.

You may be right, but I don't think that Will is trying to influence BHO.
Imo he is reflecting public frustration. CNN of all people reported that the new rules of engagement are causing more American casualtie.
To me it seems like the best thing to do now is an overwhelming surge, drive them to their knees & settle the issue.
if we need to set up a blocking force to halt the retreat into Pakistan, then do it.
We allowed sanctuary in Cambodia to the VC & NVA, bad idea.

46 JohnH  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:51:28pm

Van Jones is in the administration and is now shown to be a truther (how did they miss that?) and you're worried about one pundit?

47 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:52:20pm

These days George F Will has about as much influence over the average conservative as Christopher Buckley.

48 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:53:15pm

re: #46 JohnH

I can't see this ending well. Tell me, did you kick hornets nests as a kid too?

49 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:54:49pm

re: #46 JohnH

There's no proof of that except a list where anyone could have put that man's name down in an attempt to smear him. Do you have anything besides this list to prove your claim?

50 SixDegrees  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:54:55pm

re: #46 JohnH

Van Jones is in the administration and is now shown to be a truther (how did they miss that?) and you're worried about one pundit?

As noted on the thread downstairs several times, the only source for Jones being a Troofer is...a troofer site. Not exactly the most reputable source of information.

51 JohnH  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:55:26pm

re: #48 CyanSnowHawk

I agree that Will is way off base on this. I just don't think he has much influence any more.

52 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:55:40pm

Victim of attack at MoveOn vigil speaks: “He ate my finger”

Youtube Video
53 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:55:58pm

All hail the party of fail!
The Limits Of Force

By Chuck Hagel


The U.S. response, engaging in two wars, was a 20th-century reaction to 21st-century realities. These wars have cost more than 5,100 American lives; more than 35,000 have been wounded; a trillion dollars has been spent, with billions more departing our Treasury each month. We forgot all the lessons of Vietnam and the preceding history.
54 n in wi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:56:04pm

I would not endorse a complete with drawl from Afghanistan, but,
a limited force that could respond to flare ups and protect Paki nukes,may be the way to go.Because;
1. Afghanistan will never have a functional economy. It lacks the resources that Iraq has.[water,oil,]
2. Obama will not have the will to see it through to what ever could be considered victory in the same way Iraq is.
All that can be done in Afghanistan,may already be accomplished. Why put more life and treasure on the line when not much more of our interest is to be gained?
The problem for Obama and the Democrats is that they must now win,or abandon the "good" war that they condemned Bush for not pursuing.Or acknowledge that Bush was right in his choice to take it to the level that he did.

55 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:56:09pm

re: #46 JohnH

On my better days, I have actually been able to do more than one thing at a time.

56 keithgabryelski  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:56:26pm

Tony Blankley's angle on this was interesting:

~"We must leave Afghanistan because President Obama doesn't have the cajones to keep a strong force in there and win"~

I don't agree with his premise, but it's a good angle for him.

57 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:56:47pm

re: #53 Killgore Trout

An avalanche starts with but a single stone...

58 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:57:06pm

re: #50 SixDegrees

As noted on the thread downstairs several times, the only source for Jones being a Troofer is...a troofer site. Not exactly the most reputable source of information.

Ok, Janine Garafalo & others are on there.Why would they fabricate a guy who was at the time an obsure lefty?

59 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:58:22pm

re: #52 HelloDare

"I threw a second punch and my fist ended up in his mouth."

60 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:58:42pm

When our President wants to prosecute terrorist GITMO detainees in our country's courts, and relocate terrorists to our cities of Alexandria, Virginia and somewhere in Michigan, it seems we're back to the Clinton Administration's approach to terrorism: Prosecute them! But don't hurt a hair on their head.

When our President's representatives spend their time dancing with dictators and cutting OFF funds to Honduras for defending itself from Chavez clones, we're back to the Clinton Administration's flirtation with Fidel.

When our President is merely looking for an "exit strategy" as Robert McNamara did in Vietnam for his President--not VICTORY--yeah, its' time to leave.

61 SixDegrees  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:59:37pm

re: #58 opnion

Ok, Janine Garafalo & others are on there.Why would they fabricate a guy who was at the time an obsure lefty?

How do you know that anyone on that list actually placed their names there?

It's on a troofer site. They're known for lying.

I'd like some independent confirmation. Like a video of Jones ranting about melted steel or some such. This doesn't even rise to the level of evidence, let alone proof.

62 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:00:38pm

The gathering avalanche:

Aide quits over Afghan strategy

Labour MP Eric Joyce said the UK could no longer justify the growing casualty toll in Afghanistan by saying the war would prevent terrorism back home.

63 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:01:14pm

re: #46 JohnH

Van Jones is in the administration and is now shown to be a truther (how did they miss that?) and you're worried about one pundit?

* * * *
Charles Krauthammer said about an hour ago that Van Jones ought to be gone from the Obama Administration by MONDAY!

Buh bye, Van Jones--the FBI's vetting department just reviewed your background.

64 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:01:45pm

re: #57 freetoken

An avalanche starts with but a single stone...

There have been hints of this happening for a while now. The radical right has become the new LLL. Neocons have been thrown out in favor of paleocons and libertarians. Game over.

65 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:02:40pm

re: #47 Ringo the Gringo

These days George F Will has about as much influence over the average conservative as Christopher Buckley.

* * * *
Christopher Buckley's novel & movie "Thank You For Smoking" was fantastic.

66 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:03:02pm

Will says:

“Forces should be substantially reduced to serve a comprehensively revised policy: America should do only what can be done from offshore, using intelligence, drones, cruise missiles, airstrikes and small, potent Special Forces units, concentrating on the porous 1,500-mile border with Pakistan, a nation that actually matters.”

Ultimately he's right. We will probably never make Afghanistan into a functional and civilized country, but we can also never allow it to become what it was when the Taliban gave safe haven to al Qaeda. At some point we will have to leave, but there is no doubt that from time to time we will have to go back and destroy things and kill bad guys.

It's not an attractive future, but it's better than the alternative.

67 SixDegrees  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:03:30pm

re: #63 alegrias

* * * *
Charles Krauthammer said about an hour ago that Van Jones ought to be gone from the Obama Administration by MONDAY!

Did he mention why he believes this?

68 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:04:47pm

re: #61 SixDegrees

It's possible that at one time Jones assented to adding his name to a claim that the Bush administration knew the 9/11 attacks were going to happen in advance (which appears to be the claim attributed Jones, not that the Bush administration actually planned or executed the attack.)

69 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:04:50pm

re: #65 alegrias

* * * *
Christopher Buckley's novel & movie "Thank You For Smoking" was fantastic.

I liked it too.

70 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:05:02pm

re: #61 SixDegrees

How do you know that anyone on that list actually placed their names there?

It's on a troofer site. They're known for lying.

I'd like some independent confirmation. Like a video of Jones ranting about melted steel or some such. This doesn't even rise to the level of evidence, let alone proof.

Where are the denials from any of them including Jones?
Does it seem outlandish to you that he would sign on, really?
At the time not many people knew who he is. Why use him , he didn't
have a lot of cred.
Look, I don't know & neither do you, we will find out, but it will be explained away with 'He changed"

71 LSD  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:06:28pm

If a Republican had the baggage Jones has (as late a 2002) - he'd be gone before his ass warmed the chair in his new office.

72 SixDegrees  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:06:42pm

re: #66 Ringo the Gringo

Will says:

Ultimately he's right. We will probably never make Afghanistan into a functional and civilized country, but we can also never allow it to become what it was when the Taliban gave safe haven to al Qaeda. At some point we will have to leave, but there is no doubt that from time to time we will have to go back and destroy things and kill bad guys.

It's not an attractive future, but it's better than the alternative.

As a show of the will of the international community and in the spirit of cooperation, I think we should relocate UN headquarters to Afghanistan. And not to some relatively developed place like Kabul. Somewhere in Helmand Province would probably be more suitable.

They can convince all their member nations to contribute, not just to the establishment of a shiny new headquarters building, but to the general improvement of the entire country.

A resounding vote of long-term commitment to bettering one of the most impoverished regions on earth.

73 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:07:23pm

re: #61 SixDegrees

How do you know that anyone on that list actually placed their names there?

It's on a troofer site. They're known for lying.

I'd like some independent confirmation. Like a video of Jones ranting about melted steel or some such. This doesn't even rise to the level of evidence, let alone proof.

* * * *
Guess you missed today's videos of Van Jones blaming "white" people of intentionally "poisoning" people of different pigmentation. And railing about "environmental justice" and redistribution of wealth through "eco-capitalism" to pay for it.

74 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:08:12pm

Krauthammer on Van Jones

Youtube Video
75 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:09:32pm

re: #73 alegrias

* * * *
Guess you missed today's videos of Van Jones blaming "white" people of intentionally "poisoning" people of different pigmentation. And railing about "environmental justice" and redistribution of wealth through "eco-capitalism" to pay for it.

Photo Shop! It was done in underground Chambers at Fox News.

76 SixDegrees  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:09:52pm

re: #70 opnion

Where are the denials from any of them including Jones?
Does it seem outlandish to you that he would sign on, really?
At the time not many people knew who he is. Why use him , he didn't
have a lot of cred.
Look, I don't know & neither do you, we will find out, but it will be explained away with 'He changed"

Uh - so he's guilty until proven innocent, then? Is that the sort of country you want - one where accusations can be leveled by anyone, and the accused has to exonerate themselves?

Not a pretty sight.

Why would you believe anything published on a troofer site? They've never, ever published anything truthful in the past. I see no reason to think they've gotten better, even when they publish something I might want to believe.

I'd like another source. One that's reputable.

77 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:10:20pm

re: #71 LSD

Can you list that "baggage"?

78 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:11:08pm

Here come the Glenn Beck talking points, right on schedule.

79 LSD  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:11:10pm

re: #77 freetoken

Can you list that "baggage"?

You sayin he ain't got any?

80 SixDegrees  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:11:27pm

re: #73 alegrias

* * * *
Guess you missed today's videos of Van Jones blaming "white" people of intentionally "poisoning" people of different pigmentation. And railing about "environmental justice" and redistribution of wealth through "eco-capitalism" to pay for it.

And this has to do with the topic at hand...how, exactly?

Is there a video of him ranting about the government being involved in the 9/11 attacks? Anywhere? Because that's exactly the sort of proof I'm looking for - not some gobbet of dreck burbling around on a Troofer site.

81 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:11:30pm

re: #67 SixDegrees

Did he mention why he believes this?

* * * *
Krauthammer did give perfectly good reasons for Pres. Obama to fire Van Jones.

However, Krauthammer said Van Jones being a Communist, which is now a thoroughly historically failed discredited passe philosophy, isn't grounds for firing Van Jones.

But look up the whole clip on Brent Baer's Fox Report of 6pm EST, today, Sept. 3, 2009.

82 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:12:02pm

re: #79 LSD

I'm just wondering from where you are getting your talking points.

83 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:12:35pm

re: #76 SixDegrees

Uh - so he's guilty until proven innocent, then? Is that the sort of country you want - one where accusations can be leveled by anyone, and the accused has to exonerate themselves?

Not a pretty sight.

Why would you believe anything published on a troofer site? They've never, ever published anything truthful in the past. I see no reason to think they've gotten better, even when they publish something I might want to believe.

I'd like another source. One that's reputable.

No , I do not want a country where guilty ,, until proven innocent.
You are engaging in high hyperbole.
He really should issue a denial though if not true & I did say that.

84 SixDegrees  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:12:38pm

re: #81 alegrias

* * * *
Krauthammer did give perfectly good reasons for Pres. Obama to fire Van Jones.

What were they?

85 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:13:27pm

re: #84 SixDegrees

What were they?

See comment 74 or the Spinoffs.

86 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:13:37pm

Wow... an avalanche of a different sort is happening downstairs...

87 SixDegrees  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:13:48pm

re: #83 opnion

No , I do not want a country where guilty ,, until proven innocent.
You are engaging in high hyperbole.
He really should issue a denial though if not true & I did say that.

You're using his silence as proof of his guilt. It's odious in the extreme.

Meanwhile, find some real evidence instead of trash from a Troofer site that's spewing what you want to hear.

88 LSD  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:14:37pm

re: #82 freetoken

Some of the video and audio clips of him are unfortunate, and really wouldn't be tolerated by another side

89 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:14:49pm

re: #71 LSD

If a Republican had the baggage Jones has (as late a 2002) - he'd be gone before his ass warmed the chair in his new office.

* * * *
Any Republican with Van Jones' credentials wouldn't have made it anywhere near the White House OR the President.

(Except for former Soviet communists such as Gorby and Yeltsin)

90 SixDegrees  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:15:17pm

re: #85 HelloDare

See comment 74 or the Spinoffs.

No sound at the moment. A quick summary, perhaps? Or is there a written column somewhere?

I normally like Krauthammer. I'd be interested in hearing why he thinks Jones will be leaving, for a number of reasons.

91 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:15:54pm

re: #87 SixDegrees

You're using his silence as proof of his guilt. It's odious in the extreme.

Meanwhile, find some real evidence instead of trash from a Troofer site that's spewing what you want to hear.

Um, let me think. I really am not in the mood to take advice from you, I'm just not.
And yeah, if it was me I would speak up, but we see it differently.

92 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:16:59pm

re: #74 HelloDare

I am disturbed that he's jumping on this as though it is a confirmed fact already. I agree that if its true, Van Jones should be shown the door post haste but an internet petition is not a reliable source of anything (nor are they taken seriously by anyone either with respect to their purpose).

93 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:17:43pm

re: #82 freetoken

I'm just wondering from where you are getting your talking points.

Must be talking points. Just has to be.
Lame.

Yep, all of those Zebras just turned into Quarterhorses after the final count was done.
None of their past will translate into any policy, of course.
I believe...I'll go watch a game.

94 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:19:28pm

File under "fat chance"...
G.O.P. Support May Be Vital to Obama on Afghan War

Instictive ODS will most likely kill any chance of bipartisan cooperation on anything. The Tea Party wing won't stand for it.

95 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:19:38pm

re: #74 HelloDare

Krauthammer on Van Jones


[Video]

* * * *
Thank you for finding and linking tonight's Brent Baer/Charles Krauthammer's comments about Van Jones.

This clip is better than my recollection of Krauthammer's characterization of truthers as psychotic paranoiacs.

96 Salamantis  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:19:45pm

These two conflicts remain connected. We have a common enemy, Al Qaeda, in both of them. Who here doesn't think that terror attacks are ramping up in Baghdad to dissuade us from shifting more troops to Afghanistan?

Yeah; I don't not think that either.

97 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:19:54pm

I've been searching and I have found absolutely no credible evidence that Van Jones is a Truther. I don't consider finding his name on a list of "signatories" on a freaking Truther site to be proof of anything.

Truthers lie. Continually. Jones may not even know that his name is on that list.

Until I see some real, credible evidence that he believes the 9/11 attacks were perpetrated by the US government, I'm not going to jump on Glenn Beck's latest bandwagon.

98 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:21:08pm

re: #94 Killgore Trout

File under "fat chance"...
G.O.P. Support May Be Vital to Obama on Afghan War

Instictive ODS will most likely kill any chance of bipartisan cooperation on anything. The Tea Party wing won't stand for it.

Why should they have bipartisan cooperation on anything? If the Democrats want to do something, they can do whatever they want. They have the votes if they really want it.

99 esch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:21:26pm

Where there's a Will there's away...

100 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:22:00pm

This is exactly why our form of government works.

101 SixDegrees  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:22:04pm

re: #91 opnion

Um, let me think. I really am not in the mood to take advice from you, I'm just not.

Yes. It's quite obvious that you are so rabidly obsessed with trashing each and every little thing this Administration does or says that you are willing to check your brain at the door and gladly accept excrement handed to you by Troofers. And won't even bother looking for any actual evidence, likely because you fear none will turn up, leaving you standing there with nothing but turds.

I am in complete agreement with Charles: the Right has almost completely lost it's collective mind, and has turned into exactly what it criticized most loudly in the Left over the last 8 years - a bunch of paranoid children. It is absolutely disgusting to watch people slurp up this bilge, swallow it whole and pronounce it fit for a gourmet. The Right used to be the ideology that prized rational thought an intellectualism. They are now hurling themselves into the intellectual sewer. And calling it the purest of springs in the process.

102 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:23:16pm

OT: I bought a 560 Roomba Vacuuming Robot today. Very cool. I've been running it without a full charge just to watch it work. Very cool. It does seem to have a little bit of trouble finding its home when it need to recharge but that's not surprising since I have it only partially charged and I don't have the "lighthouses" set up yet. Still very cool. It picks up all kinds of stuff with no trouble, navigates around without getting stuck. Early review: Awesome!

103 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:23:23pm

OT: Fox News is doing a 9-11 retrospective Thursday. Despite Beck and Hannity, they're still better than the alternatives.

104 LSD  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:23:40pm

I really don't care if Van Jones is a troofer. I care that he was/is a self-described communist. Anybody who slagged that goat in life has some serious judgment issues or just wanted some strange poo-nanny. Either way he's a fool and I don't want him anywhere near the policy making machine of my federal government.

/2 cents

105 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:24:08pm

Van Jones 2008 Video clip just shown again on TV: (Fox Cable)

"White polluters are steering poison" into "minority communities...

WOW. Serious charge by the Green Jobs Czar in charge of environmental "justice"

106 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:24:29pm
107 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:24:32pm

re: #102 Killgore Trout

I want one of these, too:
[Link: news.cnet.com...]

108 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:25:32pm
109 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:26:17pm

It's a little depressing to see this many lizards swallowing Glenn Beck's hokum.

110 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:26:18pm
111 RightOnTheLeftCoast  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:26:21pm

I normally like George Will, but on this issue I think he's dead wrong. You simply can't abandon the advances we've made (though some are indeed small and tenuous).

To allow the Taliban/Al-Queda to re-establish a safe haven and home base would represent an absolute victory for them.

My worry is, as others have said, that the Barry Zero administration doesn't have the will to follow through and provide the support, manpower, supplies, and tactical freedom to successfully wage war. If they go into a Vietnam-like "limited war" philosophy of fighting a defensive war on foreign soil, and be unwilling to fight to win, then perhaps leaving would be the (sadly) better alternative.

112 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:26:24pm

re: #90 SixDegrees

No sound at the moment. A quick summary, perhaps? Or is there a written column somewhere?

I normally like Krauthammer. I'd be interested in hearing why he thinks Jones will be leaving, for a number of reasons.

"Being a Thruther goes beyond extremism and radicalism, that's psychotic paranoia...and you've got to ask yourself in the WH, if you didn't know he's a Truther, then you have to ask him to politely resign. And if you did, is that acceptible in a government of the United States."

113 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:26:28pm

re: #107 jaunte

I got rid of my lawn in favor of garden space so I don't need one. Sill, looks like a nice thing to have for lawn people.

114 JohnH  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:26:32pm

re: #108 taxfreekiller

Ezekiel Emmanuel too

115 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:27:00pm

Some noxious chemical must be leaching out of George Will's hairpiece and infecting his brain.

116 Athens Runaway  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:27:01pm

re: #108 taxfreekiller

William Ayers, Rev. Wright, A.C.O.R.N. , B. Obama, Van Jones, connections connect.

Facts count up.

You're crazy.

//

117 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:27:29pm

re: #14 HelloDare

Has everybody on the right lost their mind?

No, I don't think so. Those on the right who challenged Will over this attempt to regain credibility would seem to be fully compos mentis.

118 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:27:34pm

re: #101 SixDegrees

Yes. It's quite obvious that you are so rabidly obsessed with trashing each and every little thing this Administration does or says that you are willing to check your brain at the door and gladly accept excrement handed to you by Troofers. And won't even bother looking for any actual evidence, likely because you fear none will turn up, leaving you standing there with nothing but turds.

I am in complete agreement with Charles: the Right has almost completely lost it's collective mind, and has turned into exactly what it criticized most loudly in the Left over the last 8 years - a bunch of paranoid children. It is absolutely disgusting to watch people slurp up this bilge, swallow it whole and pronounce it fit for a gourmet. The Right used to be the ideology that prized rational thought an intellectualism. They are now hurling themselves into the intellectual sewer. And calling it the purest of springs in the process.


You know, if you were following that thread you would know that
I said that we do not know for sure, but will find out.
Why you have to be so over the top in your response is beyond me.
Clearly you reaaaly like Obama. Bet you didn't put up a defense like this when it ever involved Bush.
You Progressives seem so angry , tsk tsk.
By the way what flavor was the kool Aid today?

119 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:28:01pm

re: #109 Charles

Not surprising though. We've endured a deluge of bad information and conspiracy theories since the election. Glenn Beck is just a symptom, this is what the right wants.

120 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:28:09pm

I'm hearing Van Jones' own radical words as recorded by "Rustbelt Radio" interview of April 7, 2008.

No Glenn Beck in sight.

121 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:28:11pm

re: #105 alegrias

Van Jones 2008 Video clip just shown again on TV: (Fox Cable)

"White polluters are steering poison" into "minority communities...

WOW. Serious charge by the Green Jobs Czar in charge of environmental "justice"

That's just ridiculous. They're playing one sentence from that video completely out of context.

What Van Jones was saying is that the regulations are biased in favor of white communities, and that white environmentalists are essentially diverting the pollution to minority neighborhoods.

I strongly suspect there's an element of truth to this.

He did NOT say that white people are poisoning minorities. That's Fox News BS.

122 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:29:03pm

re: #114 JohnH

Ezekiel Emmanuel too

What's wrong with Zeke?

123 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:29:26pm

re: #102 Killgore Trout

OT: I bought a 560 Roomba Vacuuming Robot today. Very cool. I've been running it without a full charge just to watch it work. Very cool. It does seem to have a little bit of trouble finding its home when it need to recharge but that's not surprising since I have it only partially charged and I don't have the "lighthouses" set up yet. Still very cool. It picks up all kinds of stuff with no trouble, navigates around without getting stuck. Early review: Awesome!

It's a great gadget. I don't regret buying mine at all. Very useful.

124 Salamantis  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:29:51pm

re: #115 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Some noxious chemical must be leaching out of George Will's hairpiece and infecting his brain.

George Will has always aspired to be a latter-day Bill Buckley, but has always lacked Bill's huge brass cojones, not to mention his unswerving moral compass.

Georgie has always been a finger-in-the-wind wussy boy.

125 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:30:25pm

Since I'm plugging products today: I finally found a brand of cookware that I like: Scanpan
Easy to clean, retains and distributes heat very well, handles don't heat up. Excellent.

126 JohnH  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:30:37pm

re: #122 John Neverbend

Obama's Rationer in Chief

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

127 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:31:51pm
128 LSD  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:32:08pm

re: #125 Killgore Trout

Since I'm plugging products today: I finally found a brand of cookware that I like: Scanpan
Easy to clean, retains and distributes heat very well, handles don't heat up. Excellent.

You are right on - we've got the Ceramic Titanium 10-1/2-Inch Square Grill Pan and it kicks butt

129 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:32:52pm

re: #121 Charles

That's just ridiculous. They're playing one sentence from that video completely out of context.

What Van Jones was saying is that the regulations are biased in favor of white communities, and that white environmentalists are essentially diverting the pollution to minority neighborhoods.

I strongly suspect there's an element of truth to this.

He did NOT say that white people are poisoning minorities. That's Fox News BS.

* * * *
There ARE more POOR white communities than any other in this country. What is the rust belt? What is Manhattan?

Where is pollution highest? Formerly communist countries that still burn brown coal.

I heard Van Jones say just that verbatim, unless the recording was doctored.

130 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:33:30pm
131 Salamantis  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:34:33pm

The Appalachians are infamous as a toxic dumping ground. Especially West Virginia.

132 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:35:22pm

re: #128 LSD

You are right on - we've got the Ceramic Titanium 10-1/2-Inch Square Grill Pan and it kicks butt


I had some bad experiences buying new sauce pans last month. Wasted my money on crap that I'm just going to throw in the recycle bin.
The Scanpan stuff is affordable and very high quality.

133 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:35:44pm

If the Republicans turn isolationist and tag Afghanistan as Obama's war, he will happily comply with the bipartisan wishes of Congress and we'll abandon the place.
And the Islamist wack jobs in the Pakistani ISI will move a few Paki nukes across the border and then who knows where.
Sigh. No statesmen in sight.

134 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:36:31pm

re: #105 alegrias

Van Jones 2008 Video clip just shown again on TV: (Fox Cable)

"White polluters are steering poison" into "minority communities...

WOW. Serious charge by the Green Jobs Czar in charge of environmental "justice"

There has been a steady stream of politicians and activists who have claimed that pollution has been steered towards minority communities, particularly here in the NYC metro area. Environmental racism and environmental justice. They claim that waste transfer centers and bus depots were situated in poor areas - primarily where minorities lived, while the richer areas (which happen to be Caucasian majority) didn't have those issues.

Van Jones seems to have taken those comments even further... but not by much from what some of those sites.

But Van Jones wants much more than that - his policy preference is to cap, tax, and collect. Not cap and trade. He wants massive and serious reductions in emissions, and he doesn't think out what it would do to the economy. (more here).

Elsewhere, he thinks that surburban sprawl is really a reaction to racist views of whites - to create a separate infrastructure.

135 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:37:12pm

re: #131 Salamantis

The Appalachians are infamous as a toxic dumping ground. Especially West Virginia.


True. I think it has more to do with economics rather than race. Polution is dumped in poor areas because the residents don't have as much influence. However, in many areas the poor neighborhoods are also minority neighborhoods. I see no reason to doubt the claim.

136 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:37:50pm

re: #131 Salamantis
Virginia imports garbage from New Joisey. Not northern VA, the coal country in the SW. It helps pay the bills.

137 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:38:44pm

re: #98 TheMatrix31

Why should they have bipartisan cooperation on anything? If the Democrats want to do something, they can do whatever they want. They have the votes if they really want it.

Perhaps because we have troops in harms way that need all of our support on a important mission, or do we want another Vietnam ?

138 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:39:03pm

re: #134 lawhawk

There has been a steady stream of politicians and activists who have claimed that pollution has been steered towards minority communities, particularly here in the NYC metro area. Environmental racism and environmental justice. They claim that waste transfer centers and bus depots were situated in poor areas - primarily where minorities lived, while the richer areas (which happen to be Caucasian majority) didn't have those issues.

I've read some of those reports, and there is credible evidence to back it up. It's not a stretch at all to imagine that wealthier communities have more influence and are able to keep the nasty pollution out of their own backyards.

Yes, Van Jones is a leftist. But I don't think he's entirely wrong about this.

139 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:39:14pm
140 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:39:30pm

re: #123 Charles

I got an early generation of the Roomba and was thoroughly disappointed with it. Glad they got the kinks out, and your experience was much better.

141 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:39:44pm

re: #137 avanti

Perhaps because we have troops in harms way that need all of our support on a important mission, or do we want another Vietnam ?

How true, as long as our troops are there, they deserve our support.

142 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:40:00pm

re: #137 avanti

Perhaps because we have troops in harms way that need all of our support on a important mission, or do we want another Vietnam ?

Would have been nice if the nutbag liberals felt the same way during our Iraq campaign, instead of slandering and undercutting them at every fucking turn though, wouldn't it?

143 Athens Runaway  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:40:08pm

re: #137 avanti

Perhaps because we have troops in harms way that need all of our support on a important mission, or do we want another Vietnam ?

Funny, because liberals claim that Afghanistan IS "another Vietnam."

144 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:40:50pm

re: #121 Charles

That's just ridiculous. They're playing one sentence from that video completely out of context.

What Van Jones was saying is that the regulations are biased in favor of white communities, and that white environmentalists are essentially diverting the pollution to minority neighborhoods.

I strongly suspect there's an element of truth to this.

He did NOT say that white people are poisoning minorities. That's Fox News BS.

* * * *
Not that your nation's capital's 5 consecutive black mayors (Walter Washington, Marion Barry, Sharon Pratt Dixon, Tony ___ and current mayor Adrian Fenty) are responsible for majority black Washington, DC's pollution (and continuing terrible record on education, crime, corruption, cronyism.)

Marion Barry did 4 terms as mayor. Let's just say improving the environment was NOT a priority.

145 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:41:01pm

re: #134 lawhawk

The points Jones is trying to make: suburban development being driven (in part) by racism, and that blacks are subject to unequal applications of the law... are hardly new.

Indeed, they go back many decades.

146 Salamantis  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:41:11pm

re: #143 Athens Runaway

Funny, because liberals claim that Afghanistan IS "another Vietnam."

And they want nothing more than to ensure that it becomes one.

Just not on THEIR watch.

147 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:41:39pm

re: #142 TheMatrix31

Would have been nice if the nutbag liberals felt the same way during our Iraq campaign, instead of slandering and undercutting them at every fucking turn though, wouldn't it?

The Left absolutely sabatoged Viet Nam. There was no even a pretense of troop support with the Movement Leftists.

148 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:42:03pm

re: #130 buzzsawmonkey

Here you offer me a line like that--opening the door to doing some sort of "Paint Your Wagon" fest with you and Glenn Beck in the Clint Eastwood and Lee Marvin roles--and I have to sign off.

Life is so cruel, sometimes.


Glenn Beck as Clint Eastwood? I've always seen him more as Festus.
Marshal Dillon, come quick!
Charles- well, maybe the Arness role?

149 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:43:02pm

Later gators

150 jhrhv  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:44:42pm

It'll be interesting when Sheehan, Code Pink and the Move on crowd start having anti-Obama rallies.

151 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:44:59pm
152 itellu3times  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:45:08pm

Born 1941 according to Wikipedia, just checking to see if he's old enough to qualify for social senility.

153 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:45:38pm

re: #150 jhrhv

Hasn't Sheehan already started this?

154 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:45:53pm

re: #142 TheMatrix31

Would have been nice if the nutbag liberals felt the same way during our Iraq campaign, instead of slandering and undercutting them at every fucking turn though, wouldn't it?

So the right should do the same for political payback at the expense of the troops. Just today I saw Fox bitching about Obama extending tours in Afghanistan, just as the left did when Bush did it. Say what you will about the POTUS, he's stepped up to the plate on Afghanistan, much to the distress of the left.

155 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:46:11pm

re: #150 jhrhv

It'll be interesting when Sheehan, Code Pink and the Move on crowd start having anti-Obama rallies.

Where have you been?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

156 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:46:19pm

re: #97 Charles

I heard the same report on Hannity (that Van Jones is a Truther) as I was driving this afternoon. What I don't know is whether Beck got it from Hannity. In making the report, Hannity did not mention Beck. Hannity did add that Jones is an avowed communist.

The only good news in this: Hannity condemned the Truthers.

157 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:46:25pm

re: #135 Killgore Trout

True. I think it has more to do with economics rather than race. Polution is dumped in poor areas because the residents don't have as much influence. However, in many areas the poor neighborhoods are also minority neighborhoods. I see no reason to doubt the claim.

One aspect of the claim: the land near industrial sites is cheaper; so are houses and rental property. It isn't that industries look for poor neighborhoods to dump in, the poorer neighborhoods get built up around industrial areas.
If polluting activities continue, people in poorer neighborhoods have less leverage to change the industry practices.

158 Salamantis  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:46:45pm

Awaiting the 2012 Sheehan-Benjamin presidential ticket...

159 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:46:56pm
160 jhrhv  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:46:56pm

re: #153 freetoken

Yes she was camped out at his vacation the other week but it didn't get much if any MSM coverage.

161 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:47:03pm

re: #123 Charles

It's a great gadget. I don't regret buying mine at all. Very useful.

I'm so looking forward to having a clean house.

162 jhrhv  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:47:33pm

re: #155 Sharmuta

Busy at work the last couple of weeks.

163 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:48:08pm

re: #151 taxfreekiller

Put Van Jones on national TV .
Put B. Obama on national TV more and more.

Let them tell it their way often and clear.

That is all, "all" Americans need.

* * * *
But it's Labor Day Weekend coming up. Folks are still on vacation or stay-cation. Bet many are hoping this ugly stuff will be swept under the rug next week and forgotten in Congress' rush back to town to push through bad legislation.

164 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:48:09pm

re: #154 avanti

So the right should do the same for political payback at the expense of the troops. Just today I saw Fox bitching about Obama extending tours in Afghanistan, just as the left did when Bush did it. Say what you will about the POTUS, he's stepped up to the plate on Afghanistan, much to the distress of the left.

I didn't say that.

165 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:49:24pm

re: #151 taxfreekiller

Put Van Jones on national TV .
Put B. Obama on national TV more and more.

Let them tell it their way often and clear.

That is all, "all" Americans need.

Primetime - Barack's fireside chat.

Prairie Fire

166 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:49:29pm

re: #158 Salamantis

Awaiting the 2012 Sheehan-Benjamin presidential ticket...


And in this corner, Paul- Beck!

167 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:49:42pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

I'm so looking forward to having a clean house.

I feel ya. We're 95% committed to building next year.

Screw this place. There's no hope.

//

168 jhrhv  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:49:59pm

re: #155 Sharmuta

“moronic convergence.”

BWAHAHAHA!!!

169 LSD  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:50:16pm

re: #166 Jim in Virginia

And in this corner, Paul- Beck!

UGH!

170 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:50:39pm

re: #156 quickjustice

I heard the same report on Hannity (that Van Jones is a Truther) as I was driving this afternoon. What I don't know is whether Beck got it from Hannity. In making the report, Hannity did not mention Beck. Hannity did add that Jones is an avowed communist.

The only good news in this: Hannity condemned the Truthers.

hannity never sites his sources- he wants you to think he's getting his info independently. He's never sited LGF when he's stolen stories from this site.

171 Salamantis  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:50:40pm

The folksy campaign slogan of the 2012 Cindy Sheehan / Medea Benjamin ticket:

There ain't a taxpayer that can't be rode;
There ain't a war that can't be throwed...

172 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:50:55pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

I'm so looking forward to having a clean house.

Mine quit working after a few weeks, telling me to clean the right front wheel, but it did not appear dirty. They sent me a wheel module, but I fixed it with a blast of compressed air before it arrived. I run the darn thing daily, and it still finds some dirt.

173 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:51:51pm

re: #170 Sharmuta

Hannity claimed to be reading off a website. Probably the same one of which Charles is suspicious.

174 leftover54  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:52:22pm

#12     lawhawk

Yeah, what ↑ he said !

175 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:53:08pm

George Will is a weasel who hasn't spoken for conservatives in a long, long time. Although I question the Afghanistan strategy, I think we must fight it out now that we're committed.

176 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:53:17pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

I'm so looking forward to having a clean house.

The ghost of Lincoln supposedly has said the same.

177 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:56:27pm

re: #175 quickjustice

George Will is a weasel who hasn't spoken for conservatives in a long, long time. Although I question the Afghanistan strategy, I think we must fight it out now that we're committed.

Did you also think that when Will was blatantly misrepresenting the claims of climate scientists?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

178 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:58:26pm

You know, until the last few weeks, I'd never heard of Van Jones. But now that I'm reading the guy, I wonder whether I've seen him somewhere before.

Oh, and you have to check out some of his Dubya rants:

Bush appears to have won an outright majority of the popular vote and to have racked up more votes than any U.S. president, including Reagan.

The damage was not limited to the presidential election. The GOP enjoyed gains in the Senate and House and evicted Senator Tom Daschle, who was holding back a flood of right-wing judicial appointments. Meanwhile, freedom-to-marry advocates got hammered, with measures banning gay marriage passing even in Oregon. Arizona passed a truly disgusting anti-immigrant measure, despite Republican Senator John McCain and the Chamber of Commerce begging voters to reject it.

And don't think the red states are the only places affected. Californians passed a measure to allow police to collect DNA samples from arrestees, even those who haven't been convicted or charged. Californians also voted down a mild modification to our ultra-draconian “three strikes and you're out” law. (Former liberal Jerry Brown joined hands with Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger to kill the much-needed reform.)

The bottom line: the GOP totally dominates the federal executive, legislative, and judicial branches. And its ideology carries weight, even in places where its elected officials do not.

What will Bush do now? That's obvious: Dubya is the living, breathing embodiment of an unholy union between the military-petroleum complex and the religious right. Now he will reward that power base.

* Bush will work to intensify the borrow-and-spend tax policies, drill-and-burn energy policies, and lie-and-die military misadventure in Iraq. A draft is a real possibility.

* The GOP will unleash a fearsome assault on civil liberties, especially targeting Arabs. And Team Bush will carry out its own 21st century Christian jihad, persecuting Muslims, feminists, and “sexual deviants” wherever it can. Bush will try to stack the courts, including the Supreme Court, with right-wingers.

* He will try to reward big business by privatizing social security and ramming through “tort reform” to shield corporations from lawsuits.

Bottom line: the agenda of right-wing Christian fundamentalists, the Pentagon, corporate war profiteers, and the U.S. petroleum industry will reign supreme. And there will be no change in that balance of power until at least 2008 and (probably) much later.

That was written just after Bush won the 2004 election. One thing hit me. He worries about the borrow and spend ways of Bush, but has no problem with Obama's trillion dollar double down? These guys are totally unserious about anything they write or talk about. It's all about power accumulation.

179 jhrhv  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 5:59:10pm

re: #175 quickjustice

Anyone who chooses to spend their Sunday mornings sitting beside George Stephanopoulos each weekend should have their intelligence and opinions questioned IMO.

180 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:00:11pm

Good short one in The Onion tonight:

Walletless Biden Found Handcuffed To Bedpost
September 3, 2009 %P% Issue 45•36

WASHINGTON—According to an incident report filed by the Secret Service, special agents responded early Wednesday morning to a distress call from Number One Observatory Circle and arrived to discover Vice President Joe Biden chained to a bed, spread-eagle, with a pair of cutoff denim shorts around his ankles. Though White House officials have refused to comment, the report indicates that Biden told agents his wallet was missing and detailed its contents as a lucky two-dollar bill, a Sizzler gift card, and a Federal Bikini Inspector badge. After further questioning of the vice president, the Secret Service advised local law enforcement to be on the lookout for a stolen white 1981 Trans Am driven by "this real feisty little firecracker."

181 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:01:38pm

re: #178 lawhawk

Fuuuck him.

182 Erik The Red  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:02:17pm

A little boy got on the bus, sat next to a man reading a book, and
noticed he had his collar on backwards. The little boy asked why he
wore his collar backwards.

The man, who was a priest, said, 'I am a Father.'

The little boy replied, 'My Daddy doesn't wear his collar like that.'

The priest looked up from his book and answered, ''I am the Father of
many.'


The boy said, ''My Dad has 4 boys, 4 girls and two grandchildren and he
doesn't wear his collar that way!'

The priest, getting impatient, said 'I am the Father of hundreds', and
went back to reading his book.

The little boy sat quietly thinking for a while, then leaned over and
said, 'Maybe you should wear a condom and put your pants on backwards
instead of your collar.'

183 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:02:28pm

re: #172 avanti

Mine quit working after a few weeks, telling me to clean the right front wheel, but it did not appear dirty. They sent me a wheel module, but I fixed it with a blast of compressed air before it arrived. I run the darn thing daily, and it still finds some dirt.

Supposedly it has a modular design so that even if the computer module or battery section goes dead you can just order a new section. As long as parts are available I'll be happy.
I'm running it now without cleaning the house before hand. Picking up lots of dust bunnies. I'm bound to screw it up within a few days.

184 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:04:09pm

re: #177 Charles

I don't look to George Will for my science, Charles. I've posted several times here about attending debates between pro AGW scientists and anti AGW scientists. To my amazement, the scientists agreed on virtually all of the data. They had different opinions about what it meant.

My opinion about global warming? I think it is in America's interests to reduce our dependence on foreign oil by re-starting an ambitious nuclear power program. Miniature nuclear power plant technology will be available within five years. We should go for it!

By shutting down the Yucca Mountain nuclear reprocessing facility, I believe the Obama Administration is hurting these efforts.

186 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:04:52pm

re: #76 SixDegrees


I'd like another source. One that's reputable.

What other reputable source could be used?

187 leftover54  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:05:48pm

re: #17 freetoken

Fluoride.

188 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:05:50pm

re: #185 Killgore Trout

Now now, you know that Media Matters is an ultra-left wing site and not to be trusted!

/

189 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:06:39pm

re: #187 leftover54

Fluoride.

Yup. One of the more successful communist plots, at least until they were able to sneak Obama into office.

/

190 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:06:56pm

re: #185 Killgore Trout

Conservative media take note: Reagan preached tax cut gospel to America’s students

Who the fuck says that's not wrong as well? Presidents, no matter WHO the hell they are, should not be pushing their agendas on students. No way, no how.

191 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:07:04pm

There were a couple LaRouche nuts at the Metro handing out literature today. I wasn't in the mood to check out their version of the daily crazy. He will be 90 in 2012, if he's not dead he'll be on the ballot too.

192 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:07:42pm

Michelle Malkin compares Obama aide Valerie Jarrett to a Mafia consigliere:

FLV Video

Let's see. Is there any horrible group or monstrous historical figure that Obama hasn't yet been compared to?

Obama's cabinet members are a bunch of serial-killing Visigoths!

193 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:08:51pm

re: #189 freetoken

Yup. One of the more successful communist plots, at least until they were able to sneak Obama into office.

/

It's always about the bodily fluids.. isn't it Gen. Ripper.

194 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:09:57pm

re: #171 Salamantis

The folksy campaign slogan of the 2012 Cindy Sheehan / Medea Benjamin ticket:

There ain't a taxpayer that can't be rode;
There ain't a war that can't be throwed...


To what tune? They need a slogan to Michael row the boat ashore, or where have all the flowers gone- bring back the whole 60s vibe.

195 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:09:58pm

re: #190 TheMatrix31

Who the fuck says that's not wrong as well? Presidents, no matter WHO the hell they are, should not be pushing their agendas on students. No way, no how.

* * * *
I don't recall Reagan's tax cut "agenda" being pushed on me by my teachers!

My teachers pooh poohed Reagan!

Reagan's talking points were NOT in my teacher's homework assignments.

196 LSD  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:10:50pm

re: #192 Charles

Michelle Malkin compares Obama aide Valerie Jarrett to a Mafia consigliere:

Obama's cabinet members are a bunch of serial-killing Visigoths!

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!

197 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:11:10pm

re: #138 Charles

I've read some of those reports, and there is credible evidence to back it up. It's not a stretch at all to imagine that wealthier communities have more influence and are able to keep the nasty pollution out of their own backyards.

Yes, Van Jones is a leftist. But I don't think he's entirely wrong about this.

He is not entirely wrong about this.
What you have described happened where I live. Plants located in or near low-income minority areas of town, and then were NOT good neighbors.

198 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:11:34pm
199 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:12:15pm

re: #195 alegrias

* * * *
I don't recall Reagan's tax cut "agenda" being pushed on me by my teachers!

My teachers pooh poohed Reagan!

Reagan's talking points were NOT in my teacher's homework assignments.

Of course it wasn't...a Q/A is different than a full on video + homework plan design, but I'm playing the game anyway.

200 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:13:08pm

re: #196 LSD

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!

I did watch that video, although my computer still has no sound. May I say that I find Michelle Malkin to be physically an attractive woman, even though she may be talking bollocks.

201 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:13:58pm

That dirty bitch prick Bruce Bowen retired from the NBA today.

Hey Bruce, from all Suns fans --

Youtube Video
202 hopperandadropper  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:15:32pm

So, George Will = right-wing pundits? I thought there was only one of him.

BTW, Charles, I'm a bit surprised that you haven't noted that Obama appointee Van Jones is reported to be a 9/11 Truther. I haven't looked into the details yet, but I've seen the report in a number of places so I would be interested in your take on the topic.

203 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:15:37pm

re: #192 Charles

Michelle Malkin compares Obama aide Valerie Jarrett to a Mafia consigliere:


[Video]

Let's see. Is there any horrible group or monstrous historical figure that Obama hasn't yet been compared to?

Obama's cabinet members are a bunch of serial-killing Visigoths!

* * * *
Why anyone who still professes to be communist isn't so attractive to me personally:

When your own family has experienced communist threats & violence, and had their homes taken over by communists who committed atrocities house by house, and had to leave one's beloved countries because of communists, one doesn't respect people who still think communism is great.

204 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:15:47pm

I've also been impressed by Bjorn Lomberg's work on prioritizing global issues by use of cost/benefit analysis. Lomberg believes that global warming is occurring, but argues that it's not the most pressing problem confronting the world.

205 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:16:05pm

re: #202 hopperandadropper

So, George Will = right-wing pundits? I thought there was only one of him.

BTW, Charles, I'm a bit surprised that you haven't noted that Obama appointee Van Jones is reported to be a 9/11 Truther. I haven't looked into the details yet, but I've seen the report in a number of places so I would be interested in your take on the topic.

He said he doesn't know the validity of the claims yet.

206 Athens Runaway  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:16:15pm

I just want to point out that the claim regarding Van Jones is not "whites are killing blacks using pollution," what he (alledgedly, if you want to question whether or not he actually said and the tape was doctored) said was "white environmentalists are killing blacks."

Liberal racialism + liberal environmentalism= what Van Jones calls "environmental justice."

207 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:16:22pm

re: #202 hopperandadropper

It's probably a bogus story.

208 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:17:21pm

B/T/W. Charles, Allahpundit now is reporting that Van Jones is a Truther:
[Link: hotair.com...] and that the Washington Examiner has confirmed it by calling the Truthers who compiled the list.

209 spirochete  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:17:21pm

re: #192 Charles

Literalist fussbudgets!

210 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:17:33pm

re: #204 quickjustice

It's amazing how the best option for generating power is the one that Democrats (especially Harry Reid) least want to back - nuclear.

211 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:17:57pm

I'm late to the party, so if this has been posted I apologize in advance.
Interview with Van Jones.

I also saw a video clip (on Fox) of him saying (paraphrased) "the white businessmen and white environmentalists are just shoving all the pollution into the neighborhoods of people of color".

I'd have to say he's a piece of, uh, work. Yes. Piece of work at best.

212 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:18:27pm

re: #131 Salamantis

The Appalachians are infamous as a toxic dumping ground. Especially West Virginia.

Eh? West Virginia has 9 superfund sites. New Jersey has 114.

213 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:18:53pm

re: #192 Charles

She's really one to talk about association when she's published at VDARE.

214 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:19:03pm

re: #211 Van Helsing

I'm late to the party, so if this has been posted I apologize in advance.
Interview with Van Jones.

I also saw a video clip (on Fox) of him saying (paraphrased) "the white businessmen and white environmentalists are just shoving all the pollution into the neighborhoods of people of color".

I'd have to say he's a piece of, uh, work. Yes. Piece of work at best.

Canada is dumping its garbage in Michigan.

215 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:19:52pm

As I sit here reading LGF and drinking beer while my roomba is cleaning my house I feel like Zorg...
One little cherry

Youtube Video
216 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:20:28pm

re: #210 lawhawk

If environmentalists are serious about slowing global warming, they should be jumping on the nuclear power bandwagon. They're not, and continue to block efforts to develop nuclear power (Yucca Mountain). One wonders why.

217 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:20:34pm

re: #210 lawhawk

It's amazing how the best option for generating power is the one that Democrats (especially Harry Reid) least want to back - nuclear.

* * * **
Nuclear power is good enough for the finicky French who last I checked still lived in avant garde Europe.

You'd think our most avant garde citizens and liberals would want to emulate the elegant French solution to energy creation.

218 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:21:38pm

re: #214 Alouette

Canada is dumping its garbage in Michigan.

Why is that being allowed? Do we not have laws? Are they just not being enforced?

219 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:22:16pm

Since Van Jones the Green Jobs Czar has been in the news a lot lately, I've become more curious about just what green jobs are. This definition is from the introduction of a UNEP report on the subject:

We define green jobs as work in agricultural, manufacturing, research and development (R&D), administrative, and service activities that contribute substantially to preserving or restoring environmental quality. Specifically, but not exclusively, this includes jobs that help to protect
ecosystems and biodiversity; reduce energy, materials, and water consumption through high-efficiency strategies; de-carbonize the economy; and minimize or altogether avoid generation of all forms of waste and pollution.


"Decarbonizing" the economy struck me as something that is only possible if there is something equally efficient with which to replace our power generation.
A lot of these jobs may be supported short term by venture capital investments in alternative energy, but they may only be career path jobs if they are subsidized by taxes.

220 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:22:21pm

re: #123 Charles

It's a great gadget. I don't regret buying mine at all. Very useful.

Speaking of gadgets, I know your love of the Kindle, and am considering buying one myself. Do you have both the K2 and the DX? Don't know if I want to kick in the extra $190 for the DX and was wondering what you thought of it if you have both.

221 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:22:50pm

re: #212 experiencedtraveller

The siting of new waste transfer stations, bus depots, and other emission points are now attacked on racial environmental grounds to prevent their siting in minority neighborhoods around NYC. Waste transfer stations in areas of the Bronx are called in to question, even though they're on rail lines, access to interstate highways, etc, make them preferable to other locations that might cost more.

What is perceived as racism is far more likely economic preferences - it's cheaper to build in those locations because land costs less, and it so happens that those people who are poor are minorities.

222 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:23:16pm

More on miniature nuclear power plants here:

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

223 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:23:26pm

re: #178 lawhawk

You know, until the last few weeks, I'd never heard of Van Jones. But now that I'm reading the guy, I wonder whether I've seen him somewhere before.

Oh, and you have to check out some of his Dubya rants:

That was written just after Bush won the 2004 election. One thing hit me. He worries about the borrow and spend ways of Bush, but has no problem with Obama's trillion dollar double down? These guys are totally unserious about anything they write or talk about. It's all about power accumulation.

This man needs to be in a position of high governmental influence, obviously.

Now that he is there we can experience his wisdom put to work.

/how much is a snort of unicorn farts these days?

224 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:23:30pm

re: #208 quickjustice

B/T/W. Charles, Allahpundit now is reporting that Van Jones is a Truther:
[Link: hotair.com...] and that the Washington Examiner has confirmed it by calling the Truthers who compiled the list.

Why in the world would you believe anything Truthers say? It's not "confirming" anything to ask Truthers about that.

225 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:23:33pm

re: #218 Van Helsing

Why is that being allowed? Do we not have laws? Are they just not being enforced?

* * * *
Silly Wabbit!

Waste Management Incorporated and other "green" concerns in the USA recycle other people's trash for PROFIT!

We have advanced trash separation facilities that process trash and turn it into post-consumer by-products.

226 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:23:52pm

re: #215 Killgore Trout

Just remember when someone hands you a weapon, that you ask about all the buttons. Especially the little red one.

The 5th Element is a great and underrated sci-fi/action flick.

227 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:24:11pm

re: #208 quickjustice

B/T/W. Charles, Allahpundit now is reporting that Van Jones is a Truther:
[Link: hotair.com...] and that the Washington Examiner has confirmed it by calling the Truthers who compiled the list.

Has anybody asked Van Jones to confirm or deny that he signed the 9/11 Statement? If he confirms it, it's game over, but if he denies it, there's something of an impasse, unless it's also possible to get hold of a verifiable copy of the statement containing his unforged signature.

228 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:24:17pm

re: #222 quickjustice

Nuclear power plants smaller than a garden shed and able to power 20,000 homes will be on sale within five years, say scientists at Los Alamos, the US government laboratory which developed the first atomic bomb.


Nice.

229 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:24:27pm
230 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:24:30pm

re: #202 hopperandadropper

So, George Will = right-wing pundits? I thought there was only one of him.

BTW, Charles, I'm a bit surprised that you haven't noted that Obama appointee Van Jones is reported to be a 9/11 Truther. I haven't looked into the details yet, but I've seen the report in a number of places so I would be interested in your take on the topic.

Well, you could try reading the numerous comments I've posted in this very thread.

231 altermite  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:24:32pm

re: #216 quickjustice

If environmentalists are serious about slowing global warming, they should be jumping on the nuclear power bandwagon. They're not, and continue to block efforts to develop nuclear power (Yucca Mountain). One wonders why.

Many of us are. There are those who are not informed, and as it happens, they are getting support from the guys who would lose out if we developed new energy sources. You get to guess who that is.

232 ArmyWife  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:24:50pm

Good evening, crew! I am on my short stop in Charlotte on my way home. This is much quicker than my backwards stop in PA on the WAY to Arizona! Now that I've emerged from my conference, I need to catch up on the world!

233 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:24:53pm

re: #218 Van Helsing

Why is that being allowed? Do we not have laws? Are they just not being enforced?

It's the dumping fees. Lots of moolah.
As a Canadian I think it is obscene and a terrible waste of money.

234 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:25:03pm

Question for LGF techno-geeks:

Anybody have any experience working with Drupal, a "content management platform" used for managing the back end of complicated Web sites?

I've been asked to work at a company editing their web content, and the whole thing is in Drupal, which I was reassured was "really easy to use" and "involved no code" and was non-intimidating. However, I have my doubts. A brief foray into Drupal-land revealed that it can be difficult to learn the system at first, as it is highly idiosyncratic.

I won't be required to actually admin the site in question, just improve its content and implement it /upload it myself. But I'm afraid that my techno-idiocy will shine through my editing expertise.

If you don't know what the heck I'm talking about, no problem -- but if you have any experience with Drupal, do give me the low-down!

235 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:25:10pm

re: #226 lawhawk

Just remember when someone hands you a weapon, that you ask about all the buttons. Especially the little red one.

The 5th Element is a great and underrated sci-fi/action flick.

It's my A/V system test disk as well. Whenever I hook the systems up, that one goes in for the system test.

236 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:25:42pm

On a related note, anybody know anything about cloning RFID cards? I need to learn about that too.

237 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:25:48pm

re: #224 Charles

I report on the report about the report: you decide! ;-)

238 cronus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:26:04pm

Regardless of whether Van Jones is a Truther, it is hard to believe that this was really the best qualified individual for this particular czarist post. The environmental advocacy establishment has been firmly planted in Washington for over three decades and there are numerous serious individuals who could have filled this post -- even if we don't agree such a post should exist.

Another stellar vetting job courtesy of the: "Best Transition Evah!"

239 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:27:20pm

re: #6 MJ

Isolationism is back in style within elements of the Right.

George has always been something of an isolationist. His idea of war is to go in, bomb the country and weaken the power structure then withdraw. The ramifications of the hit and run theory are never addressed.

240 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:27:34pm

re: #192 Charles

Have they compared Obama to Xenu yet?

241 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:28:15pm

re: #232 ArmyWife

Good evening, crew! I am on my short stop in Charlotte on my way home. This is much quicker than my backwards stop in PA on the WAY to Arizona! Now that I've emerged from my conference, I need to catch up on the world!

Hey Armywife! Hope you are well

242 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:28:19pm

re: #234 zombie

Question for LGF techno-geeks:

Anybody have any experience working with Drupal, a "content management platform" used for managing the back end of complicated Web sites?

I've been asked to work at a company editing their web content, and the whole thing is in Drupal, which I was reassured was "really easy to use" and "involved no code" and was non-intimidating. However, I have my doubts. A brief foray into Drupal-land revealed that it can be difficult to learn the system at first, as it is highly idiosyncratic.

I won't be required to actually admin the site in question, just improve its content and implement it /upload it myself. But I'm afraid that my techno-idiocy will shine through my editing expertise.

If you don't know what the heck I'm talking about, no problem -- but if you have any experience with Drupal, do give me the low-down!

* * * *
Good luck, Zombie--they're lucky to have you in any capacity, improving their website's content. Sorry I can't answer your tech questions either.

243 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:28:39pm

Actually, It seems like Charles's code for LGF is like a super-slick customized Drupal-like system.

244 cronus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:28:41pm

FWIW: @michaelscherer: Van Jones: "As for the petition that was circulated today . . . it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever."

245 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:29:28pm

re: #231 altermite

Glad to hear you're aboard, but why did President Obama order Yucca Mountain shut down at Harry Reid's request? It was ready to open after a $13.5 billion investment of taxpayer dollars.

246 ArmyWife  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:29:41pm

re: #241 HoosierHoops

I am - I have about 5 minutes or so before I leave. Trying to read what is going on here before i astound with my insight on this topic. ;)

247 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:29:54pm

re: #244 cronus

FWIW: @michaelscherer: Van Jones: "As for the petition that was circulated today . . . it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever."

Tweets -- mankind's most reliable information source!

248 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:30:10pm

F-161 safely lands without engine

VIDEO - The Israeli Air Force was able to video a rarity Thursday, as an F-161 fighter jet made an emergency landing with no engine power.

249 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:30:11pm

re: #216 quickjustice

If environmentalists are serious about slowing global warming, they should be jumping on the nuclear power bandwagon. They're not, and continue to block efforts to develop nuclear power (Yucca Mountain). One wonders why.

Because it's not so much about the environment as it is about politics.

250 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:30:12pm

re: #238 cronus

Regardless of whether Van Jones is a Truther, it is hard to believe that this was really the best qualified individual for this particular czarist post. The environmental advocacy establishment has been firmly planted in Washington for over three decades and there are numerous serious individuals who could have filled this post -- even if we don't agree such a post should exist.

Another stellar vetting job courtesy of the: "Best Transition Evah!"

* * * *
No kidding there's better candidates. America's so-called largest and oldest environmental law firm in Washington, DC is headed by a BLACK environmental lawyer of distinction. Harvard Grad too.

251 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:30:40pm

re: #239 Wendya

From what I hear, that parallels his sex life! ;-)

252 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:30:40pm

re: #245 quickjustice

Glad to hear you're aboard, but why did President Obama order Yucca Mountain shut down at Harry Reid's request? It was ready to open after a $13.5 billion investment of taxpayer dollars.

If you have no place to store the waste, you can't expand our nuclear power generation capability.

253 David Simon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:30:50pm

re: #239 Wendya

George has always been something of an isolationist. His idea of war is to go in, bomb the country and weaken the power structure then withdraw. The ramifications of the hit and run theory are never addressed.

George is one of many pundits - conservative and liberal - who insist on embarrassing themselves by writing op-eds about subjects they know nothing about.

254 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:31:21pm

re: #245 quickjustice

Glad to hear you're aboard, but why did President Obama order Yucca Mountain shut down at Harry Reid's request? It was ready to open after a $13.5 billion investment of taxpayer dollars.

Back a few years ago I read some pretty nasty geological setting reports about Yucca - seismic hazard, water table potentials. I don't know if they remain the prevailing wisdom, but back then it made Yucca look like a genuinely stupid idea.

255 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:31:24pm

re: #247 zombie

Tweets -- mankind's most reliable information source!

If it's tweeted (twitered?) it must be true!

256 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:31:59pm

re: #225 alegrias

re: #233 Spare O'Lake

I'm a bit confused. Is this legal dumping at waste facility or are they just dropping where they can?

If legal, is it because it costs less to dump in Michigan?

alegrias - I liked the 'post consumer byproducts' bit.

257 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:31:59pm

More from the UNEP Green Jobs report. Some stats on decline of employment in extractive industries, pg. 91, suggesting that green jobs may not be a full employment solution.

In Europe, U.K. coal production has declined steeply, and employment evaporated from 229,000 in 1981 to about 5,500 miners today.140 (Some 4,000 former miners have found jobs retrofitting homes to make them more energy-efficient, but about 100,000 remain long-term unemployed.141)
And in Germany, productivity gains and rising coal imports translate into a projected decline in employment from 265,000 in 1991 to less than 80,000 by 2020.142
259 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:32:43pm

Van Jones was not chosen for his experience or resume, but basically because he's sort of like a slightly younger West Coast version of Obama -- highly intelligent African-American community organizer quickly rising through the political ranks. I wouldn't be surprised if Van Jones is put forth as the Dem candidate in 2016 or 2020. He's the Mini-One.

260 ArmyWife  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:32:46pm

re: #255 jcm

If it tweats...oh darn. Nothing is coming to mind by "eats" and that isn't the effect I am looking for. Can we blame it on jetlag?

261 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:32:47pm

re: #244 cronus

FWIW: @michaelscherer: Van Jones: "As for the petition that was circulated today . . . it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever."

So Van Jones is denying this?

262 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:32:55pm

re: #254 Coracle

The concerns you mention were addressed, and Yucca was licensed, only to be gutted by Obama.

263 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:33:03pm

re: #248 Ben Hur

F-161 safely lands without engine

WTF is an F-161? They didn't mean F-16, did they?

264 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:33:35pm

re: #258 cronus

ABC News: Controversial Obama Administration Official Denies Being Part of 9/11 "Truther" Movement, Apologizes for Past Comments

Ah, there we go -- the denial we've all been waiting for.

265 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:33:39pm

re: #254 Coracle

Back a few years ago I read some pretty nasty geological setting reports about Yucca - seismic hazard, water table potentials. I don't know if they remain the prevailing wisdom, but back then it made Yucca look like a genuinely stupid idea.

* * * *
OK, wise guy. WHERE in France do the French store their nuclear waste? Paris?
Surely storing nuclear waste ain't rocket science if the French have been doing it for over 50 years.

266 ArmyWife  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:33:39pm

re: #257 jaunte

More from the UNEP Green Jobs report. Some stats on decline of employment in extractive industries, pg. 91, suggesting that green jobs may not be a full employment solution.


ya think? ;)

267 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:33:42pm

re: #236 zombie

On a related note, anybody know anything about cloning RFID cards? I need to learn about that too.

mmm... yes...Why? Are you sure what you are asking? You don't want to clone RFID radio transmissions right?
I can direct your knowledge of creating and even printing RFID Labels...We do that stuff at work...Cloning was perhaps not what you meant...
/Nothing to see here Mr. FBI Agent..*wink*

268 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:33:53pm

re: #245 quickjustice

Glad to hear you're aboard, but why did President Obama order Yucca Mountain shut down at Harry Reid's request? It was ready to open after a $13.5 billion investment of taxpayer dollars.

That's why.

269 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:33:59pm

re: #258 cronus

ABC News: Controversial Obama Administration Official Denies Being Part of 9/11 "Truther" Movement, Apologizes for Past Comments

Thanks! Perhaps some will learn troofers aren't good sources of information.

It will also be interesting if any blog who promoted this make a correction, or at least update their posts to reflect this.

270 ArmyWife  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:34:05pm

re: #264 zombie

I didn't say it but if I did I'm sorry?

271 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:34:15pm

re: #263 CyanSnowHawk

F-16 I
[Link: www.globalsecurity.org...]

272 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:34:20pm

re: #263 CyanSnowHawk

WTF is an F-161? They didn't mean F-16, did they?

Probably a mistype - F-16I...

273 cronus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:34:21pm

re: #247 zombie

Tweets -- mankind's most reliable information source!

Well he is a Time DC bureau reporter...which now that I think about it probably makes him doubly unreliable.

274 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:34:29pm

re: #192 Charles

...Obama's cabinet members are a bunch of serial-killing Visigoths!

Easy on the Visigoths Charles!

Everyone knows it was the Ostrogoths that caused all the real trouble.

Theodoric executing Boëthius: NOT COOL.

275 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:34:43pm

re: #192 Charles

Michelle Malkin compares Obama aide Valerie Jarrett to a Mafia consigliere:


[Video]Let's see. Is there any horrible group or monstrous historical figure that Obama hasn't yet been compared to?

Obama's cabinet members are a bunch of serial-killing Visigoths!

Charles -

Even the Romans knew that the Goths and Visigoths were at least "Semi-Civilized" - They looked at them the way Japanese look at Koreans -"Country Cousins." That is almost all. Coming at everybody on a "sick" Dell Dimension "The Chief" Bought to help out a tenant's relative. Windows verrry infected. It and I am now running on the "Jaunty Jackelope." Seems right to me as Ubuntu IS the alternate O/S over at Dell. This piece is the equivalent of your Gubernator doing all chest, some arm and NO LEG development.
A Pentium 4 2.80 Ghz HTT Processor, 40 Gb HDD and 256Mb Memory.
The Ubuntu 9.04 Disc came in to me today with Postmark from the Netherlands from Canonical. Surely it got me "out of Dutch!"

-S-

-S-

276 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:34:50pm

re: #258 cronus

ABC News: Controversial Obama Administration Official Denies Being Part of 9/11 "Truther" Movement, Apologizes for Past Comments


Uh-huh..

He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition.

I imagine his name and organization appeared on that list because at the time, it was in line with the crowd he ran with. Today, on the other hand, stuff like that doesn't play well with the mainstream.

277 Banner  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:34:57pm

Maybe he figures that Obama is gonna lose anyway, so why not get out now and save all those lives?

Personally, I don't know if Obama will lose over there, so far he seems to be letting the military do its job. I find the Will article a bit strange myself.

278 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:36:00pm

re: #259 zombie

Van Jones was not chosen for his experience or resume, but basically because he's sort of like a slightly younger West Coast version of Obama -- highly intelligent African-American community organizer quickly rising through the political ranks. I wouldn't be surprised if Van Jones is put forth as the Dem candidate in 2016 or 2020. He's the Mini-One.

They can't seriously be considering that with the "I am a communist" baggage he's got. That might work for the Legislature, but it's got to be death for an Executive candidate.

279 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:36:04pm

re: #263 CyanSnowHawk

WTF is an F-161? They didn't mean F-16, did they?

I don't know.

Maybe it's what the IAF named its modified F-16s?

280 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:36:04pm

re: #265 alegrias

* * * *
OK, wise guy. WHERE in France do the French store their nuclear waste? Paris?
Surely storing nuclear waste ain't rocket science if the French have been doing it for over 50 years.

I'd like to bury it deep in the craton. Possibly in several kilometer deep shafts. There are some nifty sequestering technology proposals for deep ocean sediment burial in the pacific. But if Yucca is in fact sound I don't have real objections to it.

281 ladycatnip  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:36:10pm

OT

The French impose a stupidity tax

Sounds like a really good idea.

282 wee fury  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:36:25pm

re: #258 cronus

ABC News: Controversial Obama Administration Official Denies Being Part of 9/11 "Truther" Movement, Apologizes for Past Comments

This is included in the article: "He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition."

283 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:36:36pm

re: #259 zombie

Here's a more flattering video on Van Jones's agenda.

CNN.

284 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:37:09pm

re: #276 Wendya

I imagine his name and organization appeared on that list because at the time, it was in line with the crowd he ran with. Today, on the other hand, stuff like that doesn't play well with the mainstream.

Because no petty person would ever sign someone up to a list just to create headaches.

285 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:37:09pm

re: #258 cronus

ABC News: Controversial Obama Administration Official Denies Being Part of 9/11 "Truther" Movement, Apologizes for Past Comments

From that link:

"Van Jones, the Special Advisor for Green Jobs at the White House Council on Environmental Quality, is Number 46 of the petitioners from the so-called "Truther" movement which suggests that people in the administration of President George W. Bush "may indeed have deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war."


In a statement issued Thursday evening Jones said of "the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever."

He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition."

So, he doesn't deny that he signed it. Just that he no longer agrees with it. And that he apparently didn't agree with it even when he signed it (?!?!?!?!?).

286 ArmyWife  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:37:19pm

I'm off to board a plane. See ya!

287 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:37:45pm

re: #272 lawhawk

Probably a mistype - F-16I...

I thought that might be the case, given the aircraft in the video was obviously an F-16.

288 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:38:09pm

re: #224 Charles

Charles -

Van Jones would have a close election in his home district for Dog Catcher. The President, however, apparently loves him. The Question is WHY?

-S-

289 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:38:14pm

re: #258 cronus

ABC News: Controversial Obama Administration Official Denies Being Part of 9/11 "Truther" Movement, Apologizes for Past Comments

re: #264 zombie

Ah, there we go -- the denial we've all been waiting for.

This is good:

"I apologize for the offensive words I chose to use during that speech," Jones said in a different written statement to Politico on Wednesday. "They do not reflect the views of this administration, which has made every effort to work in a bipartisan fashion, and they do not reflect the experience I have had since I joined the administration."

Jayzuz.

290 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:38:25pm

re: #284 Sharmuta

Because no petty person would ever sign someone up to a list just to create headaches.

What ?

291 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:38:31pm

Levi Johnston: I'll strip for Playgirl

Johnston, the former boyfriend of Palin's daughter Bristol, said he would be happy to strip off. The 19-year-old self-confessed "redneck" from Wasilla, Alaska seemed unaware that Playgirl has a large gay readership.

/what a tool

292 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:38:34pm

re: #271 jaunte

F-16 I
[Link: www.globalsecurity.org...]

Great!

Thanks.

I made a good guess.

293 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:38:36pm

re: #279 Ben Hur

I don't know.

Maybe it's what the IAF named its modified F-16s?

F-16I the letter I not the number one is the correct type identifier.

294 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:39:05pm

re: #264 zombie

According to Tappert, Jones admits to having been a communist, but now claims that joining the Administration has changed him forever for the better, and apologizes for his extremist rhetoric in the past. Another person changed forever by President Obama! ;-)

295 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:39:26pm

re: #36 Big Steve

With the Lizard Army forbearance, I would like to go OT for a moment.

Why is it that the President is constantly telling the Press that photos of his children are off-limits and his children should not be politicized...yet the official White House releases a cutsey-pie photo of Sasha Obama hiding behind the sofa in the Oval office ala John John Kennedy. If the children are off-limits, they should be off-limits for all purposes.

Give him a break will ya? Shouldn't the President be in control over what the press covers with reagrd to his family?
The pic was cute as hell. I'm glad they released it.

296 cronus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:40:03pm

re: #276 Wendya

I imagine his name and organization appeared on that list because at the time, it was in line with the crowd he ran with. Today, on the other hand, stuff like that doesn't play well with the mainstream.

When someone has truly been wronged in this kind of situation they typically issue a condemnation of the offending party and claim that "my name was used without my consultation or permission. I would have never agreed to have my name be a part of something so blah, blah, blah..."

It will be interesting to see how quickly the WH issues a follow-up statement to that affect. The longer it takes the more interesting this will get.

297 mfarmer1  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:40:39pm

re: #224 Charles

Agreed. But have you seen some of the videos of Van Jones and his conspiracy nonsense? The guy is a creep and shouldn't be given a visitor's pass for a standard White House tour.

Being accused of being a Truther is the least of this guy's problems. Given everything else he's said, I don't doubt for a moment that he's a Truther, and a whole bunch of other ugly stuff that will keep coming out the longer he's in the spotlight. The guy is a complete extremist piece of garbage, Truther or not.

He'll be gone by the end of the week. Rightly so.

298 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:41:08pm

re: #267 HoosierHoops

mmm... yes...Why? Are you sure what you are asking? You don't want to clone RFID radio transmissions right?
I can direct your knowledge of creating and even printing RFID Labels...We do that stuff at work...Cloning was perhaps not what you meant...
/Nothing to see here Mr. FBI Agent..*wink*

Well, I know hardly anything about the topic, but yes, it is indeed cloning I'm talking about -- it has to do with a security company that works in that field. I know it's scary and controversial -- but in order to defeat the anarcho-crackers, you first need to know how they do it!

I want to be somewhat up to date on the topic before I embarrass myself. But it's hard to find info on the Web (for understandable reasons).

299 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:41:34pm
300 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:41:45pm

re: #281 ladycatnip

OT

The French impose a stupidity tax

Sounds like a really good idea.

Interesting. In Phoenix they will charge people for rescue if they drive through flooded roadways.
If they live.

301 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:42:11pm

I'm recording the Hi def Concert on TIVO of the King of Leon..My new favorite band this week... I can't help it Lizards.. I love these dudes..They bring the house down live...

302 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:42:30pm

re: #248 Ben Hur

F-161 safely lands without engine

Geez. Balls like grapefruits. The F-16's native stability is not straight and level. The only thing that keeps it in the air are its computers constantly interpreting its pilots inputs. They must have gotten its APU cranked up right quick or it "would have departed controllable flight".

Nice job, IAF!

Oh, and good evening to the Lizardum. I see many have their panties in a wad trying to spin Mr. Will's sudden Damascus moment!

303 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:42:57pm

re: #256 Van Helsing

re: #233 Spare O'Lake

I'm a bit confused. Is this legal dumping at waste facility or are they just dropping where they can?

If legal, is it because it costs less to dump in Michigan?

alegrias - I liked the 'post consumer byproducts' bit.

Up here in Ontario it's a NIMBY situation - no nearby municipalities want to take the Greater Toronto Area's waste and the existing dumps in the GTA are almost full. Michigan, on the other hand, is not a political hassle and is much closer to Toronto than available sites in northern Ontario which are not free of political costs.

304 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:43:25pm

re: #291 Killian Bundy

Levi Johnston: I'll strip for Playgirl


/what a tool


The Levi quote in WaPo today was "Playgirl is a magazine girls buy to look at naked guys, right?"

(Because there are no homosexuals in Iran Alaska.)

305 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:43:34pm

re: #285 zombie

If Jones admitted signing the Truther petition it likely would jeopardize his current czardom. He's enjoying his new-found prominence, and wants to turn over a new leaf.

What's amusing about this is that the Truthers now have a motive to expose him! ;-)

306 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:43:53pm

re: #289 aboo-Hoo-Hoo

This is good:

"I apologize for the offensive words I chose to use during that speech," Jones said in a different written statement to Politico on Wednesday. "They do not reflect the views of this administration, which has made every effort to work in a bipartisan fashion, and they do not reflect the experience I have had since I joined the administration."

Jayzuz.

Lot of apologizing and back taxes being spewed by these appointees.

307 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:43:59pm

re: #285 zombie

From that link:

"Van Jones, the Special Advisor for Green Jobs at the White House Council on Environmental Quality, is Number 46 of the petitioners from the so-called "Truther" movement which suggests that people in the administration of President George W. Bush "may indeed have deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war."

In a statement issued Thursday evening Jones said of "the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever."
He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition."

So, he doesn't deny that he signed it. Just that he no longer agrees with it. And that he apparently didn't agree with it even when he signed it (?!?!?!?!?).

I'd like to see the petition he signed, if in fact, he did sign. Often, a more innocent petition calling for a investigation of security lapses could be expanded to include the wacko's.

308 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:44:22pm

re: #303 Spare O'Lake

Thank you.

309 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:44:23pm

re: #299 taxfreekiller

This also could explain why Harry Reid wanted Yucca Mountain killed. It would put an end to the gravy train for his contributors.

310 Pigtown Water Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:44:43pm

re: #203 alegrias

Yes. I know.
It's frightening when you tell someone, "Communists killed part of my family," and there is still no light behind the eyes...

311 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:47:39pm

re: #218 Van Helsing

Why is that being allowed? Do we not have laws? Are they just not being enforced?

The State of Michigan receives revenue from the Province of Ontario for accepting its garbage.

312 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:46pm

re: #298 zombie

Well, I know hardly anything about the topic, but yes, it is indeed cloning I'm talking about -- it has to do with a security company that works in that field. I know it's scary and controversial -- but in order to defeat the anarcho-crackers, you first need to know how they do it!

I want to be somewhat up to date on the topic before I embarrass myself. But it's hard to find info on the Web (for understandable reasons).

Interesting...The readers digest version is that the chip broadcasts on a certain freq...To clone that is to break the law and try to gain access to the product...For security..Its really simple...You encode the signal...Like with Funk security software...You ain't breaking that 128 bit with out big time processing and time...You rarely hear of RFID code being cracked.. The truck is a million miles away before the results even come in...
I know what you are talking about..Cloning Satt Cards...Crap I had buddies hacking K cards years ago in Assembly Language...Good money in it back then

313 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:55pm

re: #311 Alouette

OK. So it's legal dumping - Michigan makes a buck and Toronto gets rid of their trash outside of Their Back Yard.

Thanks for the answers. I hear about dumping and I think of people driving out into the desert and just dumping stuff.

314 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:51:20pm

re: #302 austin_blue

Geez. Balls like grapefruits. The F-16's native stability is not straight and level. The only thing that keeps it in the air are its computers constantly interpreting its pilots inputs. They must have gotten its APU cranked up right quick or it "would have departed controllable flight".

Nice job, IAF!

Oh, and good evening to the Lizardum. I see many have their panties in a wad trying to spin Mr. Will's sudden Damascus moment!

-16 has a hydrazine powered EPU (Emergency Power Unit) IIRC. Don't know how long it provides power.

315 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:56:09pm

re: #284 Sharmuta

Because no petty person would ever sign someone up to a list just to create headaches.

Considering the statements issued by the organizations he was involved with at the time, it's not out of the realm of the possible that he did actually sign the petition.

316 Billy Bob  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:02:50pm

So quick to jump in with out testing the waters? Often, angles are said to fear to tread, where some folks just love to rush in. Screw Will. Screw the fallacious glomming on to the notions embedded into softer minds through the puppeteers called “the media”, as well.

Wills’ opinion on this matter will last little longer than mine regarding his.

I am a conservative, not by choice but by reasoning. I cannot follow Mr. Wills’ reasoning. I fear he is saying what he is saying to stay within the good graces of fame, largely due to the fact that he has not had anything of substance to say lately.

I suggest, hope and pray that the current administration in the WH will not fall into the myopic and micro-management style that left us running out of Vietnam. Vladimir Putin is making noises of engagement into the theater that once brought the former Soviet their own stinging defeat; with help from our hand. Nothing would please or delight the former KGB chief than to be able to help the denizen of Afghan throw out the infidel invaders. We are still in Germany, Japan, and Korea. We will be in Iraq and the Kush mountains for a long time as well. We can be in Persia in just a few minuets now, due in part to some strategic planning.

A fly-by wire, remote controlled war will not be anything less than a slow bleed and invite even greater outside intervention by those who wish us harm. Unless that is what you were looking to accomplish in the first place, change tact and let the professionals accomplish their mission, as they know how to do it.

Love Billy Bob.

317 omahadad  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:04:08pm

Looks like Van Jones is denying signing the truther petition.

WashingtonTimes.com

From the link:

A response was provided to reporters Thursday evening. In it, Mr. Jones apologized and said his views have changed. His statement is below:

"In recent days some in the news media have reported on past statements I made before I joined the administration – some of which were made years ago. If I have offended anyone with statements I made in the past, I apologize. As for the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever."

318 omahadad  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:07:52pm

re: #285 zombie

Sorry for the duplicate post. I missed this.

319 rain of lead  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:09:18pm

things that make you go ..."oh crap!"
health care reform means more power for the IRS

The Democrats' plan would require all Americans to have "acceptable" insurance coverage (the legislation includes long and complex definitions of "acceptable") and would designate the IRS as the agency charged with enforcing that requirement. On your yearly 1040 tax return, you would be required to attest that you have "acceptable" coverage. Of course, you might be lying, or simply confused about whether or not you are covered, so the IRS would need a way to check your claim for accuracy. Under current plans, insurers would be required to submit to the IRS something like the 1099 form in which taxpayers report outside income. The IRS would then check the information it receives from the insurers against what you have submitted on your tax form.

If it all matches up, you're fine. If it doesn't, you will hear from the IRS. And if you don't have "acceptable" coverage, you will be subject to substantial fines — fines that will be administered by the IRS.

Under some versions of health reform now circulating on Capitol Hill, the IRS would also be intimately involved in how you pay for insurance. Everyone would be required to buy coverage. The millions of Americans who can't afford it would receive a subsidy to pay for it. Under the version of the plan currently under negotiation in the Senate Finance Committee, that subsidy would come through the IRS in the form of a refundable tax credit. Under the House plan, the subsidy would come directly from the Health Choices Administration.

you know the drill...read the whole thing :(

320 rain of lead  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:10:39pm

sorry, forgot to link the story here
D'OH

321 hopperandadropper  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:20:37pm

re: #230 Charles

Wow, Charles, I just asked a question in good faith. I was genuinely interested in your opinion, but I guess I don't deserve to ask the freakin' question since I didn't spend enough of my time combing 200 previous messages to see if you had pronounced previously.

I'm out. Say hi to Stanley for me. I still think the records are good.

322 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:24:14pm

re: #319 rain of lead

If it all matches up, you're fine. If it doesn't, you will hear from the IRS. And if you don't have "acceptable" coverage, you will be subject to substantial fines — fines that will be administered by the IRS.

No problem. Just if you can take a 'Rangel' on penalties and interest.

323 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:24:50pm

re: #319 rain of lead

If it all matches up, you're fine. If it doesn't, you will hear from the IRS. And if you don't have "acceptable" coverage, you will be subject to substantial fines — fines that will be administered by the IRS.

No problem. Just ask if you can take a 'Rangel' on penalties and interest.

PIMF

324 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:31:07pm

re: #291 Killian Bundy

Levi Johnston: I'll strip for Playgirl

/what a tool

Killian Bundy -

LEVI JOHNSTON would probably "Strip For Food." AND the Governor's Daughter, a Young Female Palin probably felt "restricted" - from my own experience I KNOW the feeling of Restriction ALL TOO WELL! - From my "maturity" - I Have learned things. Maturity takes TIME. I am am sure Former Gov. Palin was a "Hot One" in her time. This is nothing but good. It attracted a good mate, resulted in a family that on "batting averages" would make anyone proud. No batting average is perfect - even the great Ted Williams was at +/- .400 Lifetime. -AND- Draw You own Conclusions.
Former Governor Palin IS in Baseball Terms, A "NATURAL" - Agree or Disagree with her on "The Issues" - No Problem. Denigrate her Talent - OK she is NOT an Ivy-League Educated Liberal Woman - AND?? - at this point in time - Right or Wrong - with the "Death Panel" comment SHE OWNS Pres. OBAMA'S Butt on this issue. He is shufflin' - she is at home and relaxed.

-S-

325 wiffersnapper  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:32:13pm

Wow so neither side wants to support the troops? That's some BS.

326 wiffersnapper  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:32:31pm

And by BS I mean that makes me pretty peeved.

327 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:55:17pm

re: #325 wiffersnapper

Wow so neither side wants to support the troops? That's some BS.

What is Afghanistan "WORTH?" - in Geo-Politcal terms, apart from Heroin and a possible hydrocarbon pipeline route - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Let us be clear on that point. Problem IS their Islamist "bent" provides a "Nation-State" as sanctuary for the wealthiest Islamist Warlord. That is how we got to 9/9 AND 9/11/2001 - Remember if you will the killing of the "Northern Alliance" leader about 2 days prior to the WTC "Accident."
In a non-volatile world, I would have abandoned Afghanistan years ago. Problem is - That Is Just Exactly What We Did in the less volatile world of the 1990's.
DO - In Afghanistan - what MUST be done to prevent a recurrence. That is all.

-S-

328 jayzee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:14:41pm

"True" conservatives have been against "Bush's wars" for a while. George Will was too.
I don't really see this as a trend yet.

329 BothAndWorld  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:21:19pm

This evening I attended my college's young republican meeting and was shocked to hear our guest speaker Barry Goldwater Jr. advocate a similar position to George Will's in regards to Iraq and Afghanistan. Perhaps both men need to read more of Michael Yon and Michael Totten's dispatches...

330 ShanghaiEd  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:41:35pm

re: #302 austin_blue

Austin: I've been off in the wilderness of Real Life for weeks. How's things with you?

331 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:42:03pm

Absolutely pathetic. I guess everyone has forgotten that the last time we withdrew from Afghanistan without leaving behind a stable state, AQ acquired a staging base for 9/11.

332 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:43:11pm

George Will is one of those conservative who think that we can just withdraw to our shores and still be able to protect our citizens and strategic interests. I am sick of these arm chair generals.

333 eddiespaghetti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:07:48pm

Will is a douche.re: #326 wiffersnapper

Easy, just because 'wobbly george' has jumped the shark (again) on a major conflict, your generalization is just that. When it becomes prevalent on the right to cut and run on Afghanistan, you will have a point.

334 Bogdon6  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 6:53:11am

re: #332 Chekote

We are all armchair generals. And honestly, we should be armchair generals since we pay the taxes that pays for the real generals.

335 Yashmak  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 7:00:18am

re: #3 Taqyia2Me

The only way I would agree with this is if the administration is not willing to provide the resources necessary for success. That I am not convinced the admistration has the courage to provide the necessary resources is what gives me pause.

This is my concern as well. If the White House is making noises about the war on terror being over, I'm worried about the level of support they're prepared to offer our troops in the field.

If we still have the will to carry on the fight, and are prepared to do what is necessary, I'm all for continuing. I cannot in good conscience advocate keeping our troops in a position where they are provided with no clear mission, and where the enemy (the Taliban) is basically being allowed to dictate the rules of the fight.

336 Yashmak  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 7:10:38am

Some of Michael Yon's more recent dispatches from Afghanistan paint a truly disturbing picture of what's really going on there. It describes a situation where the British troops lack the manpower to exert control of any of the Helmand province beyond the perimeter of their own outposts, and that the enemy is often within a couple hundred FEET of those outposts. It describes a marked lack of air transport, even to the level that generals have to wait days. The gist is that the Brits are slowly, but surely, losing Helmand.

If adequate support for the mission is refused the US and Nato troops in country, then all we are doing by keeping them there is putting their lives in danger.

As it was noted in the NYPost the other day, Obama is trapped between needing to appear strong on national security, and his campaign promises. I fear he will leave our men and women out to dry.

337 Orangutan  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 7:44:58am

Will's assertion that the surge would have or could have "permanently" ended sectarian violence flies in the face of human nature, war, and risk management. Ongoing situations require ongoing management, and as Keynes said, when the facts change so should our opinions about how to address them. Will has hung his hat on vapor, and should be roundly discredited. I think he should stick to baseball for a while.

338 JohnH  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 8:50:42am

re: #48 CyanSnowHawk
re: #49 Sharmuta

Still in denial?

339 Land Shark  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:34:56am

Now I'm reminded why I don't pay any attention to George Will at all. What a loser. He wouldn't say that if a Republican was in office. Phony bastard.

340 StillAMarine  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:59:54am

And here I thought that the Democrats would do the same thing they did for Vietnam, that is, after United States troops won the war for South Vietnam. And yes, we did win that war; Tet eliminated the Viet Cong as a threat, the countryside was pacified, and the South Vietnamese government was finally able to assert control over their country. Then the Democrat controlled congress pulled the rug out from under the South Vietnamese, allowing North Vietnam to invade the South in the largest land assault since World War Two.
Now is it the conservatives who are being craven?

341 arf  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 10:12:44am

Is this really sudden or new? I seem to remember hearing similar things about Iraq, from some commenters on the right.

342 Yashmak  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 10:24:19am

re: #340 StillAMarine


Now is it the conservatives who are being craven?

It's not craven to voice concern that our troops are being hung out to dry, put in a position where they have no clear mission, and with their General McChrystal's concerns and requests for additional resources being basically censored by the WH.

If the administration lacks the stomach to prosecute the conflict properly, we should not be keeping our servicemen and women in an untenable position. Either the Obama administration takes ownership of the war and ponies up the necessary resources, or if it lacks the resolve to do so it should take ownership of bringing them home.

343 Red Lion  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:01:48am

Now we know why W turned to Iraq before the job was finished in Afghanistan, which is, after all, "the graveyard of empires." Iraq, hard as it's been, badly as it was done, was more amenable to solution.

344 Yashmak  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:22:36am

re: #343 Red Lion

Iraq, hard as it's been, badly as it was done, was more amenable to solution.

True, dat. Iraq had a recent secular and democratic tradition to build off of. Afghanistan has nothing of the sort.

345 eric_odessit  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:35:27pm

George Will is not inconsistent. He was against going into Iraq as well, just not as loud as Buchanan. He is a typical paleo-conservative. He was wrong then, and he is wrong now.
Eric.

346 neoconundrum  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:58:19am

Charles,

Thank you for pointing out the hypocrisy of George Will's opinion. I, myself, would like to point out they hypocrisy of the "anti-war" administration for:

a.) undoing the success we had in Iraq (which we all predicted here).

b.) INCREASING our troop strength in Afghanistan only to be losing the battle.

Whereas GWB was committed, at least, to winning one war (which we did), it seems to me Obama has succeeded in turning one success into 2 loses. Everything this administration touches turns to shiite.

And where, BTW, are the anti-war liberals? Where there was once a huge noise made to "send the troops home", now I can hear a pin drop.

347 CTUCandyVendor  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:51:13pm

Our mission in Afghanistan was to establish a high enemy body count to show them they cannot attack us with impunity. Beyond that, unless we are willing to sink massive investment into that country and force western belief systems into a couple of generations, and create an actual economy, we should get out AND consider it a victory. We do not need to chase every hard core Islamist illiterate poppy industry employee with a hate-on for the West, to the ends of the earth. Iraq has strategic value, an educated populace, and revenue from oil to sustain itself on. They get uppity in the future, we go back in and teach them again. I think our mission in Afghanistan is finished. Call me anti-troop, anti-American, whatever makes you feel righteous, but these are the facts as I see them.

348 CTUCandyVendor  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:35:18pm

In my "they get uppity again" I was referring to Afghanistan, not Iraq. On Iraq, it is more complicated. Not sure how much more we can empower the Iraqi's to stop their sectarian ways, and stop the savagery. We can be the civilized police force forever, but that is easy for me to say from my comfy office. I did not support a rapid pull out pre-Obama, but I do support a pull out eventually. If we are the only ones able to keep them from tearing each other apart though, indefinitely, that is a problem. Maybe another three years at full surge strength? I think we can succeed, if we withdraw, but keep our eyes on the situation, and exact a solid penalty of some kind for Iraqi government failure. IOW, if attacks and reported injustices sharply rise in an area we just left in Iraqi control, we should go back in and make the officials feel the pain for it, then repeat the exercise. If the Iraqi officials get to simply enjoy the benefits of their positions, living on oil revenues, etc., with no punishment for failure other then getting on a jet quickly to evacuate to their oil money getaway nations, and not answer for the failure to maintain order and control with the rule of law, well, what's the point of us being a free permanent police force? We should exit Iraq the right way, with all the right levers in place to make it work.


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