Van Jones: I Am Not a Truther

US News • Views: 4,614

Obama’s “green jobs” official Van Jones has issued a statement about the claim that he’s a 9/11 Truther, promoted relentlessly today by Fox News: Controversial Obama Administration Official Denies Being Part of 9/11 ‘Truther’ Movement, Apologizes for Past Comments.

A top environmental official of the Obama administration issued a statement Thursday apologizing for past incendiary statement and denying that he ever agreed with a 2004 petition on which his name appears, a petition calling for congressional hearings and an investigation by the New York Attorney General into “evidence that suggests high-level government officials may have deliberately allowed the September 11th attacks to occur.”

Van Jones, the Special Advisor for Green Jobs at the White House Council on Environmental Quality, is Number 46 of the petitioners from the so-called “Truther” movement which suggests that people in the administration of President George W. Bush “may indeed have deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war.”

In a statement issued Thursday evening Jones said of “the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever.”

He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition.

“My work at the Council on Environmental Quality is entirely focused on one goal: building clean energy incentives which create 21st century jobs that improve energy efficiency and use renewable resources,” Jones said in his statement tonight.

Jones also said in his statement that “In recent days some in the news media have reported on past statements I made before I joined the administration – some of which were made years ago.� If I have offended anyone with statements I made in the past, I apologize.”

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1596 comments

1 noshariaincanada  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:37:18pm

he is a non-truther denier

2 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:38:23pm

If I have to choose between believing Van Jones or believing 9/11 Truthers, there's no contest.

Truthers lie constantly. It boggles my mind that people are willing to accept their word for anything.

3 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:38:44pm

So, how did his name get on it?

4 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:39:47pm
“My work at the Council on Environmental Quality is entirely focused on one goal: building clean energy incentives which create 21st century jobs that improve energy efficiency and use renewable resources,” Jones said in his statement tonight.

I'd like to see more detail from him on how this will work.

5 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:39:54pm

re: #3 MandyManners

So, how did his name get on it?

It's extremely common for 9/11 Truthers, creationists, and anti-AGW groups to add prominent people's names to lists like this without their knowledge.

6 Gmac  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:40:00pm

Sure, and I have this swell bridge for sale btw...

7 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:40:06pm

Troof or Consequences.

Van Jones has some baggage. But Charles is right, need better sourcing than the troofers.

8 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:40:16pm

re: #3 MandyManners

So, how did his name get on it?

It's possible it was done by someone with an axe to grind. How many times have we heard the stalkers are signing Charles up for various email lists, and spam mail? It's not hard to plug in a fake name on these online petitions.

9 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:40:32pm

re: #6 Gmac

Sure, and I have this swell bridge for sale btw...

So you're going to accept the word of a Truther website?

10 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:42:30pm
He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition.

I still want to hear him say: "I did not sign that petition."
/Doesn't matter though, he's under the bus by Thursday morning.

11 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:42:47pm

He does not know how his name came to be on the petition. Okay then. That solves everything.

It's nice that he's denying that he is now not a troofer, and that he was never a troofer, but how'd that name get on there in the first place.

All I know is that there's plenty of other reasons to think twice about this guy.

12 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:42:56pm

re: #8 Sharmuta

It's possible it was done by someone with an axe to grind. How many times have we heard the stalkers are signing Charles up for various email lists, and spam mail? It's not hard to plug in a fake name on these online petitions.

True. So why didn't he just say that ?

13 jantjepietje  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:42:57pm

I believe Van Jones should be out of the administration for giving himself a fake Dutch name but maybe that's just me

14 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:43:04pm

re: #5 Charles

It's extremely common for 9/11 Truthers, creationists, and anti-AGW groups to add prominent people's names to lists like this without their knowledge.

Sometimes even posthumously.

If a troofer tells me the sky is blue, you better damn well believe I'm going outside to check for myself.

15 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:43:50pm

“In recent days some in the news media have reported on past statements I made before I joined the administration – some of which were made years ago. If I have offended anyone with statements I made in the past, I apologize.”

Regarding the reporting of his statements un related to the petition, that is not an apology.

You could cut and paste that and use it for any politician of any persuasion trying to escape past assertions. It is utter mush, especially the "If I have offended anyone" conditional apology.

If a person has to condition an apology with an "if" it transfers culpability for the offensive action from the offender to the offended, in which case an apology is not in order.

Again - unrelated to trutherism. And unrelated to his political views. Just another non apology apology coming out of a moron in Washington. We've seen them from the right. We've seen them from the left. And such apologies always express contempt for those who have forced the mighty to apologize.

Pathetic.

16 jones  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:44:13pm

I am no relation to Van Jones. I do not know how are names are similar.

Just in case anyone wonders.

17 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:44:14pm

Repeating from the previous thread, a Black law partner & Harvard Law grad manages the USA's oldest and largest environmental law firm, based in Washington, DC.

Surely there are better qualified people to serve America's environmental interests than someone with a prison record and poor political judgment.

18 DeliLama  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:44:17pm

Years ago??? Years ago???

19 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:44:31pm

re: #13 jantjepietje

I believe Van Jones should be out of the administration for giving himself a fake Dutch name but maybe that's just me

"...Todd Gak? What is that, Dutch?"

20 jones  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:44:35pm

"our."

Sheesh

21 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:45:02pm

Still don't know what the truth is, but looks a lot like damage control to me.

22 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:45:33pm

re: #16 jones

I am no relation to Van Jones. I do not know how are names are similar.

Just in case anyone wonders.

I still think we should bite your pinky off.

/

23 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:45:45pm

Face palm.

I never thought I'd see the day when lizards were ready to accept the word of a 9/11 Truther website.

24 cronus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:45:47pm

Repost from previous thread:

When someone has truly been wronged in this kind of situation they typically issue a condemnation of the offending party and claim that "my name was used without my consultation or permission. I would have never agreed to have my name be a part of something so blah, blah, blah..."

It will be interesting to see how quickly the WH issues a follow-up statement to that affect. The longer it takes the more interesting this will get.

25 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:45:54pm

re: #12 SasquatchOnSteroids

True. So why didn't he just say that ?

This is what we have:

He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition.

How is he supposed to explain if he doesn't know?

26 jones  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:46:15pm

re: #22 karmic_inquisitor

I still think we should bite your pinky off.

/

Never can be too careful.

When in doubt, bite that finger.

27 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:46:26pm

re: #8 Sharmuta

It's possible it was done by someone with an axe to grind. How many times have we heard the stalkers are signing Charles up for various email lists, and spam mail? It's not hard to plug in a fake name on these online petitions.

* * * *
Charles Johnson is a SOMEBODY.

Several years ago, Van Jones was an Oakland community organizer, Black National Panther, Free Murdering Mumia supporter with a prison record.

Why would ANYONE have signed a NOBODY onto a Truther list?

28 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:46:41pm

re: #23 Charles

Face palm.

I never thought I'd see the day when lizards were ready to accept the word of a 9/11 Truther website.

I don't think folks trust Truthers, I think they distrust Van Jones.

29 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:46:42pm

Any word from the "fact checkers" at the Washington Times?

30 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:46:45pm

re: #5 Charles

It's extremely common for 9/11 Truthers, creationists, and anti-AGW groups to add prominent people's names to lists like this without their knowledge.

Can't those people legally force them to stop?

31 calcajun  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:46:57pm

Well. That just makes me feel so much better---about being what he described as an asshole.

I'm tired, cranky and need Scotch, but if this guy was a Communist and a truther and manages to be successful as a respectable political operative if not a politician, then there's hope for every pol out there that ever drank Creationist Kool-Aid. If this guy can burn his ideological bridges and turn over a new leaf, so can they. Charles still might not (and rightly, too) trust them, but Mr. Jones is proof personified that it can be done.

BTW-- back in the office again this weekend. Not a happy camper.

32 mfarmer1  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:47:07pm

re: #5 Charles

Sure, but given the other crazy conspiracy crap he's spewed very recently, not to mention his other insane rantings, I don't why why you are so skeptical.

Being a Truther would be mainstream for this guy. A step up.

33 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:47:10pm

re: #26 jones

Never can be too careful.

When in doubt, bite that finger.

Well - if you want to prove you are loyal to the cause you will have to slit your wrists.

/

34 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:47:19pm

re: #8 Sharmuta

It's possible it was done by someone with an axe to grind. How many times have we heard the stalkers are signing Charles up for various email lists, and spam mail? It's not hard to plug in a fake name on these online petitions.

I hadn't thought of that.

35 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:47:51pm

I'm amused, because Jones's denial will ignite a Truther rush to prove that he really was on board with them. That should be entertaining!

36 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:48:08pm

I'm more than happy to take Van Jones' word that he is an asshole.
I can believe that.

37 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:48:11pm

re: #32 mfarmer1

Sure, but given the other crazy conspiracy crap he's spewed very recently, not to mention his other insane rantings, I don't why why you are so skeptical.

Being a Truther would be mainstream for this guy. A step up.

Why am I so skeptical?

Because they are TRUTHERS.

Hello?

38 jones  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:48:32pm

re: #33 karmic_inquisitor

Well - if you want to prove you are loyal to the cause you will have to slit your wrists.

/


Then you can blame Newt Gingrich.

Everyone wins...

Except, me.. I guess.

39 calcajun  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:48:42pm

re: #34 MandyManners

I hadn't thought of that.

The idea of disinformation is not a new one.

40 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:48:57pm

re: #27 alegrias

* * * *
Charles Johnson is a SOMEBODY.

Several years ago, Van Jones was an Oakland community organizer, Black National Panther, Free Murdering Mumia supporter with a prison record.

Why would ANYONE have signed a NOBODY onto a Truther list?

Do we know when the name was put on the list?

41 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:49:03pm

re: #36 Van Helsing

I'm more than happy to take Van Jones' word that he is an asshole.

How bout green opportunist?

42 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:49:15pm

re: #4 jaunte

I'd like to see more detail from him on how this will work.

Here's his plan for green jobs. Apparently, he's been doing it for inner city kids for some time.

green jobs.

43 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:49:25pm

re: #27 alegrias

I find it more plausible than putting faith in troofers.

44 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:49:34pm

re: #39 calcajun

The idea of disinformation is not a new one.

When was the name added?

45 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:49:34pm

re: #29 CyanSnowHawk

Any word from the "fact checkers" at the Washington Times?

* * * *
The Federal Bureau of Investigation's incomplete security background check is what I want to know about.

46 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:49:41pm

re: #25 Sharmuta

He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition.

How is he supposed to explain if he doesn't know?

He said he didn't know ?

I didn't see that.

It would have read "He does not know how his name came to be on the petition."

And then it's over. There's nothing to see because it's all unprovable.

47 KennyR  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:49:48pm

re: #14 Slumbering Behemoth

And then the troofer will point out the chem trails.

48 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:49:51pm

re: #40 MandyManners

Do we know when the name was put on the list?

That's what I'd like to know too.

49 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:09pm

re: #27 alegrias

Why would ANYONE have signed a NOBODY onto a Truther list?

In the 46th position mind you.

50 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:14pm

Jones has pretty much confessed to everything else in his statement. But that was then, and this is now, and he's now part of the Obama Administration, so what happened then doesn't count, and he apologizes, and that makes everything all right./

51 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:17pm

re: #2 Charles

If I have to choose between believing Van Jones or believing 9/11 Truthers, there's no contest.

There is also the option of not having faith in either source. Maybe he's a truther, maybe he ain't. Either or both could be lying.

But I don't really care that much, because whether he is or isn't, there are plenty of other people in the Obama Administration with questionable views and pasts, views and pasts which have been reliably documented. On top of that, what's a[nother] truther, more or less?

52 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:26pm

re: #2 Charles

If I have to choose between believing Van Jones or believing 9/11 Truthers, there's no contest.

Truthers lie constantly. It boggles my mind that people are willing to accept their word for anything.

But what about this crucial sentence in the article:

"He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition."

He very pointedly fails to says that he didn't sign the petition. He simply glosses over that fact.

I suspect he did indeed sign it, and either:

a. Had no idea the significance of what he was signing; or
b. Is now backpedaling as best he can, without stating any obvious falsehoods.

So, basically, he doesn't deny being on the petition, just that he no longer (and never did) believe in what the petition stood for.

The Truthers have not been proven to be lying yet. Yes, they're Truthers, and completely demented as a result, but he signed on to their petition, and doesn't deny that he signed on to their petition, even now.

53 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:31pm

I've been wondering what a Special Advisor for Green Jobs does (besides advise about green jobs?) Does any authority come with the position?

54 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:38pm

re: #46 SasquatchOnSteroids

He said he didn't know ?

I didn't see that.

It would have read "He does not know how his name came to be on the petition."

And then it's over. There's nothing to see because it's all unprovable.

Take it up with the journalist who isn't writing to meet your needs then.

55 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:39pm

re: #32 mfarmer1

Sure, but given the other crazy conspiracy crap he's spewed very recently, not to mention his other insane rantings, I don't why why you are so skeptical.

Being a Truther would be mainstream for this guy. A step up.

When the sole source of this is the Troofers, there is plenty of reason to suspect the info, whether or not he appears to be the type that just might be one.

56 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:42pm

re: #3 MandyManners

So, how did his name get on it?

I'm sure a bed was involved.

57 calcajun  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:50pm

re: #44 MandyManners

Dunno. Find out, check signatures. The concept of "trust but verify" somehow does not seem applicable to information from a truther site.

58 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:52pm

re: #31 calcajun

Well. That just makes me feel so much better---about being what he described as an asshole.

I'm tired, cranky and need Scotch, but if this guy was a Communist and a truther and manages to be successful as a respectable political operative if not a politician, then there's hope for every pol out there that ever drank Creationist Kool-Aid. If this guy can burn his ideological bridges and turn over a new leaf, so can they. Charles still might not (and rightly, too) trust them, but Mr. Jones is proof personified that it can be done.

BTW-- back in the office again this weekend. Not a happy camper.

* * *
Thanks for keeping the economy aloft.

59 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:58pm

re: #27 alegrias

* * * *
Charles Johnson is a SOMEBODY.

Several years ago, Van Jones was an Oakland community organizer, Black National Panther, Free Murdering Mumia supporter with a prison record.

Why would ANYONE have signed a NOBODY onto a Truther list?

Because that's what they do.

60 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:51:13pm
61 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:51:15pm
62 ted  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:51:24pm

Green jobs 'czar' signed 'truther' statement in 2004

By Amanda Carpenter on Sept. 3, 2009 into The Back StorySubscribe
President Obama’s “green jobs czar” Van Jones has been targeted again and again by conservatives for his controversial views and now they’ll have another item to use as fodder.

Mr. Jones signed a statement for 911Truth.org in 2004 demanding an investigation into what the Bush Administration may have done that “deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war.”

His name is listed with 99 other prominent signatories supporting such an investigation on the 911Truth.org website, including Code Pink co-founders Medea Benjamin and Jodi Evans, comedienne Janeane Garofalo, Democratic Rep. Cynthia McKinney of Georgia and others. He's identified as the executive director for the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights on the statement, which he founded before going to the White House. The statement is available here. Mr. Jones is number 46.

9/11Truth.org spokesman Mike Berger told the Washington Times over the phone that all of the signers had been verified by their group. He said 9/11Truth.org board members “spoke with each person on the list by phone or through email or individually confirm they hae added their name to that list.”
“I think in most cases they spoke to them personally,” he added. “No one’s name was put on that list without them knowing it.”

Fox News personalty Glenn Beck has described Mr. Jones as a "radical" on his program and many conservative blogs have questioned his political tactics and strategies. Mr. Jones recently landed in hot water when a video surfaced of him calling Republicans a disparaging name at an energy lecture in Berkeley, California last February. He apologized for those remarks in an email to the Politico this week.

The White House has been contacted for comment and this blog will be updated with their statement when provided.

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

63 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:51:36pm

Always deny, deny, deny...

64 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:51:54pm

re: #23 Charles

Face palm.

I never thought I'd see the day when lizards were ready to accept the word of a 9/11 Truther website.

Just curious. Are you 100% sure Van Jones is telling the truth about the petition??

65 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:51:56pm

re: #23 Charles

Face palm.

I never thought I'd see the day when lizards were ready to accept the word of a 9/11 Truther website.

I'm not accepting their word. I'm going by Van Jones' own word -- a very noticeable absence of denying he signed the petition.

Confirmation through omission.

66 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:51:56pm

Unfortunately wingnut outrage is a self-supporting industry at this point. Too many people specialise in manufacturing it, like Malkin and Beck.

They'll continue in their Rumplestiltskin antics of spinning bullshit from out of nothing.

I don't expect Van Jones' denial to do anything other than create more rumours. The wingnuttiest will choose to believe the troofers, or simply invent more sinister associations for Jones. Others will say, 'Well, it's really all Obama's fault for not vetting the candidate enough.' Still others will say the whole mess is nonetheless the fault of the Obama admin for not predicting it, not doing enough to stop it, or somehow blaming them or their messaging for the wingnut freakout in the first place.

It's the lifecycle of wingnut outrage. It lives for one day like the mayfly, but lays a lot of eggs and there are always more mayflies.

67 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:52:00pm

Never quit a job unless a resignation is demanded

68 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:52:27pm

re: #42 avanti

Here's his plan for green jobs. Apparently, he's been doing it for inner city kids for some time.

green jobs.

Your video brought tears to my eyes. This one is troubling, but I'm sure you can excuse it.

69 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:52:44pm

re: #56 JamesTKirk

I'm sure a bed was involved.

Why, I oughta' *wh ah, never mind.

70 ted  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:52:55pm

"9/11Truth.org spokesman Mike Berger told the Washington Times over the phone that all of the signers had been verified by their group. He said 9/11Truth.org board members “spoke with each person on the list by phone or through email or individually confirm they hae added their name to that list.”
“I think in most cases they spoke to them personally,” he added. “No one’s name was put on that list without them knowing it.”

71 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:53:00pm

re: #52 zombie

That's how I see it.
I want to hear him say: "I did not sign that petition."
/Doesn't matter though, he's under the bus by Thursday morning.

72 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:53:13pm

re: #54 Sharmuta

Take it up with the journalist who isn't writing to meet your needs then.

ok then.

73 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:53:26pm

re: #52 zombie

Sorry, zombie. I'm really parting company with you on this one. I'm not a fan of Van Jones, but if he says he's not a Truther and doesn't subscribe to their craziness, I will absolutely believe him before I believe the Truthers.

Truthers lie. It's absolutely not a stretch to think they would put people on their stupid list under false pretenses.

74 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:53:31pm

re: #30 MandyManners

Can't those people legally force them to stop?

If those groups have no money or property, all you're going to get is a worthless judgment.

75 mfarmer1  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:53:45pm

re: #37 Charles

I know, I know. But look at the whole package Charles. It's not a stretch for this guy by any means. Look, if a Truther told me today was Thursday, I'd have to check my watch...twice. I get it. I'll move on here. Thanks.

76 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:53:47pm

re: #63 DrNaughty

Always deny, deny, deny...

And if this charge is actually false- what should he do? He's damned if he did and damned if he didn't with some crowds. Can deny it because denying it means he's lying- such bullshit.

77 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:53:48pm

re: #66 iceweasel

I'm glad to see you have found the cure for BDS, at long last.

/

78 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:53:56pm

re: #57 calcajun

Dunno. Find out, check signatures. The concept of "trust but verify" somehow does not seem applicable to information from a truther site.

I would have no idea how to verify something on the Internet if I didn't have access that that site's admin. page.

79 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:54:03pm

re: #71 unrealizedviewpoint

That's how I see it.
I want to hear him say: "I did not sign that petition."
/Doesn't matter though, he's under the bus by Thursday morning.

Obama's problem is that if he fires Van Jones, he opens up the dike for extreme criticisim of all the other nutjobs he has working for him...

80 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:54:06pm

re: #70 ted

Another lizard weighs in on the side of the Truthers.

81 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:54:07pm

What I don't see are the same folks on Van Jones' ass for thrutherism taking up the same issue with Ron Paul.

The guy is on video with a truther implying that an investigation is in order.

Maybe we can get uncle Ron to apologize.

82 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:54:10pm

re: #67 DrNaughty

Never quit a job unless a resignation is demanded

Cato would have a field day with that line.

83 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:54:21pm

re: #41 unrealizedviewpoint

How bout green opportunist?

Or as I heard. read, whatever on LGF some time ago: Watermelon - Green on the outside, Red on the inside.

84 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:54:28pm

re: #48 Sharmuta

That's what I'd like to know too.

We can trust Jones, he's advising our President & the government who are there to help us.

What the hell is the problem?

85 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:54:32pm

Who cares whether he's a troofer or not.

/there's plenty of evidence out of his own mouth that he's a nutty left wing radical hack, unfit for a White House advisor position

86 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:54:38pm

re: #27 alegrias

* * * *
Charles Johnson is a SOMEBODY.

Several years ago, Van Jones was an Oakland community organizer, Black National Panther, Free Murdering Mumia supporter with a prison record.

Why would ANYONE have signed a NOBODY onto a Truther list?

Simple. One of the other Oakland community organizers, Black National Panthers, and/or Free Murdering Mumia supporters might have been a troofer, added his/her own name, and then added in the names of his/her associates to pad out the list of signatures... Either from a deliberate intent to deceive, or from a naive assumption that all of his/her "right-thinking" associates must also be troofers.

87 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:01pm

re: #47 KennyR

And then the troofer will point out the chem trails.

Those aren't chemtrails, they be the Noodly Appendages of teh Almighty.

88 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:13pm

re: #85 Killian Bundy

Who cares whether he's a troofer or not.

/there's plenty of evidence out of his own mouth that he's a nutty left wing radical hack, unfit for a White House advisor position

Just him?

89 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:16pm

re: #52 zombie

But what about this crucial sentence in the article:

"He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition."

Exactly how is he supposed to explain that? How would he even know how it got there?

This is wingnutty parsing of his statement. And since when is teh word of 9/11 troofers ever evidence for anything-- unless it's evidence that the OPPOSITE of what they claim is true?

90 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:25pm

re: #62 ted You quote Glenn Beck. Ipso facto, QED, Jones must be truther.
///

91 Pianobuff  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:25pm

re: #46 SasquatchOnSteroids

He said he didn't know ?

I didn't see that.

It would have read "He does not know how his name came to be on the petition."

And then it's over. There's nothing to see because it's all unprovable.

The way I read it the origin of his alleged signature was not discussed - just that he disagrees with the Truthers and their positions.

Is it possible he could have signed it without realizing exactly what it was ("Hey it's against Bush...just sign it...etc.) and now that he does realize it he doesn't agree with it?

I only mention this possibility because the topic of the legitimacy of the signature is not discussed in the article - just his disavowal of the Truther position.

(unless I'm reading this wrong).

92 onslow  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:25pm

In a statement issued Thursday evening Jones said of “the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever.”

The petition was circulated five years ago. Notwithstanding the Truthers dubious relationship with truth, I wager he's lying.

93 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:29pm

re: #74 Flyers1974

If those groups have no money or property, all you're going to get is a worthless judgment.

You don't have to get a monetary judgment. You can get them to remove your name.

94 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:30pm

re: #28 unrealizedviewpoint

I don't think folks trust Truthers, I think they distrust Van Jones.

I don't trust either. I remain in the "maybe he is, maybe he isn't" column. Either way, there are bigger concerns.

95 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:37pm

re: #61 taxfreekiller

Reclaiming Revolution
history, summation & lessons from the work of
STANDING TOGETHER TO ORGANIZE A REVOLUTIONARY MOVEMENT
STORM

Published Spring 2004

Is there a link to go with that? It might be, 'interesting.'

96 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:38pm

re: #84 aboo-Hoo-Hoo

We can trust Jones, he's advising our President & the government who are there to help us.

What the hell is the problem?

Guilty until proven innocent, huh?

97 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:43pm

I'm more concerned about his knowledge of actual energy production and consumption.

His 'green' buzzwords are wearing thin.

98 ted  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:56:00pm

re: #80 Charles

Another lizard weighs in on the side of the Truthers.

not me...but theres's alot to make one believe that Jones may have...

99 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:56:09pm

re: #89 iceweasel

Exactly how is he supposed to explain that? How would he even know how it got there?

This is wingnutty parsing of his statement. And since when is teh word of 9/11 troofers ever evidence for anything-- unless it's evidence that the OPPOSITE of what they claim is true?

He is supposed to say he didn't sign it. And it pisses me off you call us wingnuts.

100 jones  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:56:11pm

Charles has a good point, never let a liar have a break. The troofers have done it to themselves.

Focus on Van Jones' (not jones jones') verifiable disqualifying faults.

101 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:56:42pm

re: #70 ted

9/11Truth.org spokesman Mike Berger...

Therein lies the rub.

When a snake oil salesman claims to have a cure for cancer, a "little" healthy skepticism is required.

102 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:56:43pm

re: #86 JamesTKirk

Simple. One of the other Oakland community organizers, Black National Panthers, and/or Free Murdering Mumia supporters might have been a troofer, added his/her own name, and then added in the names of his/her associates to pad out the list of signatures... Either from a deliberate intent to deceive, or from a naive assumption that all of his/her "right-thinking" associates must also be troofers.

That's a scenario I could grasp.

103 itellu3times  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:56:46pm

re: #11 lawhawk

He does not know how his name came to be on the petition.

Read carefully, the article never claims he does not know, only that he did not explain.

104 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:56:49pm

re: #100 jones

Charles has a good point, never let a liar have a break. The troofers have done it to themselves.

Focus on Van Jones' (not jones jones') verifiable disqualifying faults.

Like this?

105 ted  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:57:10pm

Jones has a checkered past...

106 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:57:10pm

re: #79 DrNaughty

Obama's problem is that if he fires Van Jones, he opens up the dike for extreme criticisim of all the other nutjobs he has working for him...

Van Jones will quietly resign just after The Address Wednesday night.

107 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:57:13pm

re: #10 unrealizedviewpoint

I still want to hear him say: "I did not sign that petition."
/Doesn't matter though, he's under the bus by Thursday morning.

I don't think he's going to make that statement. It would have been better to have made it today, but for some reason he chose not to. Perhaps he's telling the whole truth, and then one can reasonably infer that if he didn't agree with the petition, he certainly wouldn't have signed it. Ergo and concordantly, the Truthers made it up. On the other hand, maybe he's not telling the truth in which case the Truthers (unusually) are in the right this time. I simply don't have enough information on which to make a judgement call.

108 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:57:22pm
109 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:57:27pm

re: #42 avanti

Here's his plan for green jobs. Apparently, he's been doing it for inner city kids for some time.

green jobs.

Well it's a nice starting effort, but I don't know if the issues around replacing our primary energy sources will be affected much by a czar in charge of employing people to retrofit and insulate buildings.

110 RightOnTheLeftCoast  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:57:32pm

re: #81 karmic_inquisitor

What I don't see are the same folks on Van Jones' ass for thrutherism taking up the same issue with Ron Paul.

The guy is on video with a truther implying that an investigation is in order.

Maybe we can get uncle Ron to apologize.


Ugh! Luap Nor is a certifiable nutcase, and I wouldn't touch him with a 20-meter pole either. Trooferism is merely one of his traits that should make him an absolute pariah to any sensible conservative or libertarian (small "L"... not the loony 3rd/4th/5th/whatevah party)

111 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:57:38pm

re: #70 ted

"9/11Truth.org spokesman Mike Berger told the Washington Times over the phone that all of the signers had been verified by their group. He said 9/11Truth.org board members “spoke with each person on the list by phone or through email or individually confirm they hae added their name to that list.”
“I think in most cases they spoke to them personally,” he added. “No one’s name was put on that list without them knowing it.”

Again, if a troofer tells me the sky is blue, you better damn well believe that I'll go outside and check for myself before I ever take a troofer's word on anything.

112 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:57:49pm

re: #79 DrNaughty

Obama's problem is that if he fires Van Jones, he opens up the dike for extreme criticisim of all the other nutjobs he has working for him...

* * *
You say that like it's a bad thing. NOT!

113 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:58:20pm

re: #80 Charles

Another lizard weighs in on the side of the Truthers.

Are you certain this didn't prove your point Charles? It seems to indicate that the Washington Times method of fact checking was to talk to someone at 9/11truth.org and take their word for it.

114 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:58:56pm

re: #112 alegrias

* * *
You say that like it's a bad thing. NOT!

It's a bad thing for Bob Gibbs (AKA Baghdad Bob)...

115 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:59:11pm
Asked why Republicans asserted more control of the Senate when they had a smaller majority before 2006, Jones said "the answer to that is, they're a--holes." He added that President Obama is not an a--hole, but, "I will say this. I can be an a--hole, and some of us who are not Barack Hussein Obama are going to have to start getting a little bit uppity."

Assholes.
Uppity.
Jones is certainly a class act.

116 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:59:14pm

re: #113 CyanSnowHawk

Are you certain this didn't prove your point Charles? It seems to indicate that the Washington Times method of fact checking was to talk to someone at 9/11truth.org and take their word for it.

Piss-poor journalism.

117 ted  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:59:22pm

re: #101 jcm

Therein lies the rub.

When a snake oil salesman claims to have a cure for cancer, a "little" healthy skepticism is required.

I agree that these people have little credibility...They believe in a lie...

118 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:59:50pm

re: #2 Charles

If I have to choose between believing Van Jones or believing 9/11 Truthers, there's no contest.

Truthers lie constantly. It boggles my mind that people are willing to accept their word for anything.

I think it comes from the August '01 Intelligence Report delivered to Bush at the ranch. His response to it was, to say the least, docile. The Troofers jumped on that fact as being a smoking gun that proved that the Admin was in on the attack. Jones may have made similar comments about the initial response to the Report and thus was thus embraced as a fellow traveller. The Troofers went on to construct a whole whack conspiracy theory, of course, which Jones didn't endorse. So his denial is probably accurate.

While Bush's response was less than ideal (obviously), I think it came from his tenure as GM of the Rangers where one August, he traded for Oil Can Boyd as his fifth starter. That didn't work out at all well, and I just figure he decided that inaction in August was probably prudent.

;-)

119 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:00:00pm

re: #17 alegrias

Repeating from the previous thread, a Black law partner & Harvard Law grad manages the USA's oldest and largest environmental law firm, based in Washington, DC.

Surely there are better qualified people to serve America's environmental interests than someone with a prison record and poor political judgment.

Could I get a link to his prison record ? I know about this:

"In 1992, while still a law student at Yale, Jones participated as a volunteer legal monitor for a protest of the Rodney King verdict in San Francisco. He and many other participants in the protest were arrested. The district attorney later dropped the charges against Jones. The arrested protesters, including Jones, won a small legal settlement. Jones later said that "the incident deepened my disaffection with the system and accelerated my political radicalization."

but was unaware he did hard time.

120 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:00:01pm

re: #93 MandyManners

You don't have to get a monetary judgment. You can get them to remove your name.

True, and they would face contempt of court if they didn't, but what's that worth? They can create another organization and another list and put the names on once again. It's probably not something worth chasing for those celebreties.

121 jones  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:00:07pm

re: #104 kansas


Lawrence Summers said we should dump toxic waste in Africa, as disease and poverty would kill "them" before our waste would.

Will be a tense meeting at the WH>

122 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:00:11pm

re: #70 ted

"9/11Truth.org spokesman Mike Berger told the Washington Times over the phone that all of the signers had been verified by their group. He said 9/11Truth.org board members “spoke with each person on the list by phone or through email or individually confirm they hae added their name to that list.”
“I think in most cases they spoke to them personally,” he added. “No one’s name was put on that list without them knowing it.”

If you already believe in the Truthers' veracity, then this is convincing. If you don't it's not worth anything.

123 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:00:30pm

re: #88 DrNaughty

Just him?

re: #120 Flyers1974

True, and they would face contempt of court if they didn't, but what's that worth? They can create another organization and another list and put the names on once again. It's probably not something worth chasing for those celebreties.

Well, no actually.

/Obama seems to have a penchant for surrounding himself with advisors of, shall we say, questionable backgrounds and qualifications, that routine vetting would normally disqualify

124 calcajun  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:00:55pm

re: #58 alegrias

I feel alone. So alone./

125 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:01:06pm

re: #102 MandyManners

That's a scenario I could grasp.

… ;)

126 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:01:11pm

Folks - try to see these things as artifacts.

The artifact "Van Jones signed a Truther petition" has little verifiable factual basis. Only two parties can verify it - Van Jones and the Truthers. Regarding that artifact, if Van Jones denies it then it should not be admissible to Lizard Court on the basis that the Truthers are willing to testify that he did.

That artifact is dead. That doesn't mean that Van Jones is off the hook for being an asshole on a whole lot of other fronts - like his "apology" for past statements which "might have offended". Signature apology of an asshole.

127 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:01:29pm

re: #92 onslow

In a statement issued Thursday evening Jones said of “the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever.”

The petition was circulated five years ago. Notwithstanding the Truthers dubious relationship with truth, I wager he's lying.

Please! He clearly means the petition that has been circulating around media and news organisations today!
Your lack of reading comprehension is not evidence that he's 'lying'. It's evidence that you'll go to extraordinary lengths to find somehow, someway, to believe what you want about this guy-- and some way, anyway, to have a reason for latching onto ANY rumour.

ODS much?

128 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:01:42pm

re: #121 jones

Lawrence Summers said we should dump toxic waste in Africa, as disease and poverty would kill "them" before our waste would.

Will be a tense meeting at the WH>

Link?

129 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:01:53pm

re: #96 Sharmuta

Guilty until proven innocent, huh?

You said it, not me.

I frankly don't give a crap whether he's a troofer or not.

130 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:01:57pm
131 funky chicken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:02:11pm

re: #32 mfarmer1

Sure, but given the other crazy conspiracy crap he's spewed very recently, not to mention his other insane rantings, I don't why why you are so skeptical.

Being a Truther would be mainstream for this guy. A step up.

LOL. Sad, but perhaps true. I wonder if he thinks vaccines cause autism? That's a pretty popular belief among fringies of the right and the left.

132 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:02:12pm

I don't give two shits if jones is a truther or not. And out of Lizardian fairness, I'm going to assume he is not a truther. But I have heard enough of jones' own words and seen enough evidence of unsavory organizations he is aligned with to know that I don't like his act one bit.

Obama can be judged in part by the appointments he makes and this one smells bad ... period.

133 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:02:35pm
re: #88 DrNaughty

Just him?

re: #120 Flyers1974

True, and they would face contempt of court if they didn't, but what's that worth? They can create another organization and another list and put the names on once again. It's probably not something worth chasing for those celebreties.

Not sure how that snuck in there.

Well, no actually.

/Obama seems to have a penchant for surrounding himself with advisors of, shall we say, questionable backgrounds and qualifications, that routine vetting would normally disqualify

134 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:02:43pm

re: #120 Flyers1974

True, and they would face contempt of court if they didn't, but what's that worth? They can create another organization and another list and put the names on once again. It's probably not something worth chasing for those celebreties.

Someone needs to stop this rubbish. It's libel.

135 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:02:47pm

Only 3 years, 5 months till inauguration day.

136 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:02:54pm
137 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:02:56pm

re: #123 Killian Bundy

Well, no actually.

/Obama seems to have a penchant for surrounding himself with advisors of, shall we say, questionable backgrounds and qualifications, that routine vetting would normally disqualify

Which is why he decided not to go though the congressional vetting process after his first several nominees were found to be lacking in... paying taxes among other things.

Just announcing presidential advisers puts the kind of people Obama wants around him without exposing their backgrounds to the public

... or to the FBI...

138 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:06pm

re: #116 MandyManners

Piss-poor journalism.

Confirms Charles' opinion of them that he gave yesterday in one of the other Van Jones discussions.

139 itellu3times  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:11pm

re: #129 aboo-Hoo-Hoo

I frankly don't give a crap whether he's a troofer or not.

amen.

140 ted  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:15pm


Fox News Notes Communist Past of the 'Green Jobs' Czar

By Sam Theodosopoulos (Bio %P% Archive)


July 10, 2009 - 17:16 ET
The administration’s “Green Jobs” czar, Van Jones, has a “very checkered past” deep-rooted in radical politics, including black nationalism, anarchism, and communism. The broadcast network newscasts have mostly failed to report on Mr. Jones’s past political affiliations which are lock-step with the network’s downplay of coverage regarding President Obama’s associations with the former radical and terrorist William Ayers during the election.

At 6:47 a.m. EDT on the July 10 edition of “Fox and Friends,” Americans for Prosperity Policy Director Phil Kerpen, told interviewer Brian Kilmeade that Jones is “somebody who was involved in radical politics in San Francisco, “who was self-admittedly “radicalized in jail” and found “Communism and anarchism.” Kerpen compares Van Jones’s Communist past with his new quest for environmentalism and the creation of green jobs:
I think it’s pretty instructive what his past is...it’s the same sort of philosophy, the idea that government ought to be reordering society in accordance with some utopian vision that failed with communism and socialism, and will fail with this green jobs idea.
In an April 12, 2009 World Net Daily article titled “Will a “red” help blacks go green?”Aaron Klein reports that Jones himself stated in a 2005 interview his environmental activism was a means to fight for racial and class “justice,” and that he was a “rowdy black nationalist,” and a “communist.”

Because the administration’s “czars” do not go through congressional confirmation, and are therefore not scrutinized or vetted, many Americans have no idea who they are or where they come from.

Kudos to Fox News for bringing Van Jones’s controversial past and political ideology to light.

The following was aired on the July 10 edition of Fox and Friends:

BRIAN KILMEADE, co-host, “Fox and Friends”: Phil, we have a czar, he’s a green jobs czar, he’s Van Jones, he’s got a deep history in communism.

PHIL KERPEN, AFP Policy Director: He does. He has a very checkered past. This is somebody who was involved in radical politics out in San Francisco, California. He was arrested during a demonstration/riot following the Rodney King verdict. And he said himself that he was radicalized in jail, that he found communism and anarchism. And then he started a pretty radical, kind of communist, socialist, utopian group that was supposed to end all racism though central planning. And then he decided that the real path the sort of progressive nirvana, was the this green jobs idea. I think its pretty instructive what his past is, I am not just trying to smear the guy, but I think it’s the same sort of philosophy, the idea that government ought to be reordering society in accordance with some utopian vision that failed with communism and socialism, and will fail with this green jobs idea. We are imposing a top-down vision.

GRETCHEN CARLSON, co-host: And more importantly for America Phil, is the fact that we already have an Energy Secretary, who by the way had to go through Congress to be approved. And the reason that these czars, you don’t know anything about them, is because they don’t have to go through that process.

[Link: newsbusters.org...]

141 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:18pm

re: #120 Flyers1974

True, and they would face contempt of court if they didn't, but what's that worth? They can create another organization and another list and put the names on once again. It's probably not something worth chasing for those celebreties.

And, yes, one's good name IS worth fighting for.

142 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:20pm

re: #115 Spare O'Lake

Assholes.
Uppity.
Jones is certainly a class act.

* * * *
Post partisan, post racial, my ass.

Communists were famous for wanting to wreak REVENGE. They were same shit, different flies, and big fat pigs at the trough, when they got their hands on the treasury. I have SEEN and experienced Spanish communists do this personally and up close.

143 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:20pm

re: #136 taxfreekiller

Obama is the problem not this kook nut case Van Jones.

Focus.

Van Jones is a symptom of the disease...

144 funky chicken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:24pm

re: #107 John Neverbend

they deserve each other, IMHO

145 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:28pm

Is Van Jones an American citizen?

Has anyone...checked?

146 DeliLama  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:33pm
In recent days some in the news media have reported on past statements I made before I joined the administration – some of which were made years ago.


This is the key part of his statement. Essentially an admission of guilt.

147 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:41pm

It shouldn't be too hard.

The troofers hand the petition with signature in question to a independent 3rd party for hand writing analysis.

Or come up with independent verification.

Like so much else going on, there's enough baggage with Van Jones. This is like a the nirth certifikate, a red herring, to get all eyes off the real issues.

148 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:43pm

Green for All

The organization launched in September 2007 at the Clinton Global Initiative, when Jones appeared to announce Green for All's commitment to securing one billion dollars by 2012 to create "green pathways out of poverty" for 250,000 people in the United States.

Well done Van Jones. Spend $4000 bucks per imaginary job in an imaginary industry.

I bet the management consulting fees and opportunities for cronyism are substantial.

149 calcajun  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:51pm

re: #78 MandyManners

meant generally. Don't know how else without a subpoena.

150 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:59pm

re: #125 JamesTKirk

… ;)

Oh, you.

151 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:04:06pm

re: #133 Killian Bundy

Well, no actually.

/Obama seems to have a penchant for surrounding himself with advisors of, shall we say, questionable backgrounds and qualifications, that routine vetting would normally disqualify

Then he throws them under the bus when they become inconvenient and we move on.

152 ladycatnip  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:04:16pm

#104 kansas

Thanks for the video. This guy is out there. "White polluters" steering polution to the black communities. Now there's paranoia for ya. So why wouild we give him any credit when he believes this nonsense.

153 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:04:25pm

re: #123 Killian Bundy

Well, no actually.

/Obama seems to have a penchant for surrounding himself with advisors of, shall we say, questionable backgrounds and qualifications, that routine vetting would normally disqualify

Perhaps he just doesn't care. After all, he won.

154 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:04:41pm
155 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:04:58pm

re: #146 DeliLama

This is the key part of his statement. Essentially an admission of guilt.

It was an affirmation and basically a F U because I'm an arrogant progressive that knows what is good for you...

156 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:05:06pm

re: #79 DrNaughty

Obama's problem is that if he fires Van Jones, he opens up the dike

Do not make Hillary joke.
Do not make Hillary joke.
Do not make Hillary joke.

157 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:05:08pm

re: #73 Charles

Sorry, zombie. I'm really parting company with you on this one. I'm not a fan of Van Jones, but if he says he's not a Truther and doesn't subscribe to their craziness, I will absolutely believe him before I believe the Truthers.

Truthers lie. It's absolutely not a stretch to think they would put people on their stupid list under false pretenses.

He may not subscribe to their craziness. If he says so now, well, we should accept that. I'm only talking about whether or not he actually allowed his name to be put on the petition back in 2004. He may very well had little idea what he was getting involved in, nor that he one day would have to answer for it.

If he had said, "OK, look, I was swept up in radical politics back then, and put my name on a lot of stupid petitions I hardly looked at and didn't even read. I'm sorry. I retract that position of mine, and now state uncategorically that Trutherism is a falsehood," then the issue would pass. But by kind of glossing over the key details, he leaves open a window of doubt.

Of course, I doubt really care about this issue very much, because "Green Jobs Czar" is such a minor position, and to be frank any potential Trutherism on Jones' part is the least embarrassing aspect of his resume.

I will say though that there was a fusion between the nascent Truth movement back then and the grievance theater black nationalism of which Joens was a part at the time, and many people in the Oakland Uhuru scene latched on to the Truther meme and melded it with the minority-victimization meme.

Katrina kind of supplanted that. But 2004 is the precise year that someone like Jones would sign a petition like that. So to me it's not an outrageous claim.

Jones is protean and shifts with the times. Trutherism was hip in 2004; now it's not.

I accept his statement that he does believe in it anymore. But he never actually addressed the issue of how his name got on the petition.

158 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:05:22pm

re: #145 Ben Hur

I want to see his nirth certifikate, and I don't want any lolrus eated it excuses either.

159 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:05:22pm

re: #136 taxfreekiller

Obama is the problem not this kook nut case Van Jones.

Focus.

Study the moon, not the finger.

Or you will miss all the heavenly glory.

160 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:05:31pm

re: #145 Ben Hur

Is Van Jones an American citizen?

Has anyone...checked?

He wasn't born, he's Obama's clone...

161 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:05:40pm

Can we invoke the 24 hour rule? Van Jones says he doesn't know how his name got on the list. The truthers (and Beck, Fox, the Times, etc) will either find further evidence that he supported them , or Van Jones will issue a more detailed denial.
In 2004, the 9-11 MIHOP / LIHOP (made it or let it happen) theory was very strong in monbat circles. Check DU back then. That doesn't prove Jones signed the petition, but it would not surprise me if he had.

162 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:05:57pm

re: #71 unrealizedviewpoint

That's how I see it.
I want to hear him say: "I did not sign that petition."
/Doesn't matter though, he's under the bus by Thursday morning.

If the Washington Times was accurate, no one signed, they were put on a list if they agreed by phone. Now the question is, did they fully know what list their name was being added to.
If you trust the truthers to be honest in describing their goals, I feel sorry for you.

163 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:06:10pm

re: #136 taxfreekiller

Obama is the problem not this kook nut case Van Jones.

Focus.

Excellent TFK!

164 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:06:19pm

re: #160 jcm

He wasn't born, he's Obama's clone...

Is there a requirement for a Presidential Advisor to be a citizen?

165 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:06:32pm

re: #161 Jim in Virginia

Can we invoke the 24 hour rule? Van Jones says he doesn't know how his name got on the list. The truthers (and Beck, Fox, the Times, etc) will either find further evidence that he supported them , or Van Jones will issue a more detailed denial.
In 2004, the 9-11 MIHOP / LIHOP (made it or let it happen) theory was very strong in monbat circles. Check DU back then. That doesn't prove Jones signed the petition, but it would not surprise me if he had.

Where does he say that?

166 KennyR  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:06:36pm

re: #87 Slumbering Behemoth

Please, if you have any decency you will not let anymore cats out of the bag.

167 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:06:59pm

re: #137 DrNaughty

Just announcing presidential advisers puts the kind of people Obama wants around him without exposing their backgrounds to the public

... or to the FBI...

/ironically, because of his admitted past, Obama would never be able to hold any level security clearance except for the fact that he's, well, the elected President

168 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:07:02pm

"It's just a fucking june bug, calm down. Jesus Christ, what happens when something bigger than a testicle attacks you?"

169 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:07:08pm

re: #135 unrealizedviewpoint

Only 3 years, 5 months till inauguration day.

FOR HEAVENS SAKE, DO NOT TURN ON BEK OR THE RADIO!!!

/sky falling shit

170 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:07:32pm

re: #80 Charles

Another lizard weighs in on the side of the Truthers.

It is part and parcel of being a lying scumbag. If you are lying? If you are telling the troof? No one knows for sure.

So they error on the side of lying.

171 jones  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:07:49pm

re: #128 kansas

Link?


[Link: www.whirledbank.org...]


[Link: www.bing.com...]

172 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:07:55pm

re: #89 iceweasel

Exactly how is he supposed to explain that? How would he even know how it got there?

This is wingnutty parsing of his statement. And since when is teh word of 9/11 troofers ever evidence for anything-- unless it's evidence that the OPPOSITE of what they claim is true?

It is not wingutty parsing of his statement. The issue at hand was: How did your name get on that petition? He never answered that. He only answered the larger question of whether or not he is a Truther.

I will admit however that this is certainly a tempest in a teapot, a mountain out of a molehill. A very trivial issue blown way out of proportion.

173 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:07:58pm

re: #135 unrealizedviewpoint

Only 3 years, 5 months till inauguration day.

* * * *
Less than sixty days until election day in Virginia and New Jersey.

Do what you can to help, please.

174 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:08:05pm

Greenjob.

175 The Shadow Do  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:08:07pm

Until proven otherwise I give zero credibility to the Truther nonsense.

Until proven otherwise I give 100% credibility to this cat being a radical.

Big shock there, eh? Why in the world would anyone expect anything but a claven of radicals serving the Whitehouse, we elected the man knowing full well where he was coming from. Tha, tha, tha, tha, tha's all folks!

Enjoy the picture!

176 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:08:08pm

re: #167 Killian Bundy

/ironically, because of his admitted past, Obama would never be able to hold any level security clearance except for the fact that he's, well, the elected President

Joe Biden is looking better and better...

177 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:08:12pm

re: #162 avanti

If the Washington Times was accurate, no one signed, they were put on a list if they agreed by phone. Now the question is, did they fully know what list their name was being added to.
If you trust the truthers to be honest in describing their goals, I feel sorry for you.

I never said I trusted the Truthers. I clearly said I didn't trust Jones. Big difference Big Boy.

178 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:08:16pm

re: #126 karmic_inquisitor

Folks - try to see these things as artifacts.

The artifact "Van Jones signed a Truther petition" has little verifiable factual basis. Only two parties can verify it - Van Jones and the Truthers. Regarding that artifact, if Van Jones denies it then it should not be admissible to Lizard Court on the basis that the Truthers are willing to testify that he did.

That artifact is dead. That doesn't mean that Van Jones is off the hook for being an asshole on a whole lot of other fronts - like his "apology" for past statements which "might have offended". Signature apology of an asshole.

Exactly right. My issue is that he could've put a dagger through its' heart just by saying "I have no idea how my name appeared on that list." Unless someone freakin' taped him signing the thing, it's over and we move on to something else. He didn't do that.

179 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:08:19pm

re: #164 DrNaughty

Is there a requirement for a Presidential Advisor to be a citizen?

Henry Kissinger was not a natural born citizen, but became one later. I don't think it matters.

180 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:08:27pm

re: #161 Jim in Virginia

Can we invoke the 24 hour rule? Van Jones says he doesn't know how his name got on the list. The truthers (and Beck, Fox, the Times, etc) will either find further evidence that he supported them , or Van Jones will issue a more detailed denial.
In 2004, the 9-11 MIHOP / LIHOP (made it or let it happen) theory was very strong in monbat circles. Check DU back then. That doesn't prove Jones signed the petition, but it would not surprise me if he had.

I've been searching all day for confirmation that Jones is a Truther. If it was true, I was ready to join in the calls for him to resign.

I turned up NOTHING. I found absolutely NO evidence that he's ever said anything to anyone that supports 9/11 Trutherism.

The accusation is completely bogus.

181 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:08:42pm

Snowjob.

182 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:09:20pm

OT - the pinkie finger did not get re-attached.

(good thing the deranged angry Obama supporting finger biter wasn't a "tea partier" - otherwise - this would be a big damn deal.

183 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:09:23pm

re: #140 ted

Radicalized in jail ? Still waiting for a link about his "prison time" All I've found is his arrest as a protester, and that was dismissed, with a settlement.

184 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:09:31pm

re: #141 MandyManners

And, yes, one's good name IS worth fighting for.

I agree. But sometimes the remedy is as bad as the original ill - consider those celebreties who are sometimes falsely accused of crazy stuff in the tabloids. Even if they sue and win, the story sticks around. Perhaps years later, people will remember the accusation, but not the subsequent trial and verdict. So its a tough call.

185 ted  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:09:45pm

"Obama seems to have a penchant for surrounding himself with advisors of, shall we say, questionable backgrounds and qualifications, that routine vetting would normally disqualify"


Agree...Whether he is or not,IMO, there could be better choices.

186 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:09:46pm

re: #152 ladycatnip

#104 kansas

Thanks for the video. This guy is out there. "White polluters" steering polution to the black communities. Now there's paranoia for ya. So why wouild we give him any credit when he believes this nonsense.

LadyC - I don't like this Van Jones fellow.
The "white polluters" might be over the top, but when he talks about industry polluting low-income minority areas and not seeming to give a damn, he is correct.

Rollins Environmental Services, Baton Rouge LA

More: Rollins Environmental Services

187 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:09:51pm

re: #154 taxfreekiller

I have a hard copy of it given to me prior.

google it I guess ,,,

most likely any bad thing about this guy is getting file 13'd fast

Okay, it just looked like you meant to put one in and forgot. I've read about connection already today.

188 itellu3times  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:09:59pm

re: #157 zombie

Jones is protean and shifts with the times. Trutherism was hip in 2004; now it's not.

the classics never go out of style

189 Kenneth  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:10:01pm

Charles,

I am relieved to read that Jones has denounced the Troofers. I wish more politicians would do so. However, he did not deny adding his name to that list nor did he explain how it got there. It is possible the Troofers added it, but it is also possible he did sign it, and now regrets it. I still don't think we've gotten to the bottom of this.

190 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:10:09pm

re: #136 taxfreekiller

Obama is the problem not this kook nut case Van Jones.

Focus.

* * * *
"All the President's Men" were taken down by the Washington Post's "investigative reporters," Bernstein and what's his name.

191 MAVCON  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:10:20pm

So Charles this guy gets a pass on everything else?

192 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:10:30pm

re: #145 Ben Hur

Is Van Jones an American citizen?

Has anyone...checked?


Birth certificate now!

193 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:10:34pm

re: #166 KennyR

Please, if you have any decency you will not let anymore cats out of the bag.

You're not the boss of me!

/And be grateful that I'm not the boss of you.

194 ted  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:10:39pm

re: #189 Kenneth

Charles,

I am relieved to read that Jones has denounced the Troofers. I wish more politicians would do so. However, he did not deny adding his name to that list nor did he explain how it got there. It is possible the Troofers added it, but it is also possible he did sign it, and now regrets it. I still don't think we've gotten to the bottom of this.

I agree.

195 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:10:54pm

re: #181 jaunte

Snowjob.

Shoot. So close but so, so far away.

196 Pianobuff  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:11:01pm

re: #161 Jim in Virginia

Can we invoke the 24 hour rule? Van Jones says he doesn't know how his name got on the list. The truthers (and Beck, Fox, the Times, etc) will either find further evidence that he supported them , or Van Jones will issue a more detailed denial.
In 2004, the 9-11 MIHOP / LIHOP (made it or let it happen) theory was very strong in monbat circles. Check DU back then. That doesn't prove Jones signed the petition, but it would not surprise me if he had.

Is that really what he said? I thought he expressed his disagreement with the Truther position and ignored if/how his name got on the petition.

This doesn't mean he approved his signature on that petition, but it would have been much simpler to have said "I didn't sign no stinking petition".

Maybe not being explicit is a strategy, who knows... And in 24 hours, as you suggest, more information may quite possibly come out.

197 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:11:28pm

re: #171 jones

Thanks. That seems pretty fucked up.

198 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:11:28pm

re: #191 MAVCON

So Charles this guy gets a pass on everything else?

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?

199 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:11:29pm

re: #184 Flyers1974

I agree. But sometimes the remedy is as bad as the original ill - consider those celebreties who are sometimes falsely accused of crazy stuff in the tabloids. Even if they sue and win, the story sticks around. Perhaps years later, people will remember the accusation, but not the subsequent trial and verdict. So its a tough call.

One of the things I like about the British court system is the honking-huge verdict a plaintiff can get when libel is committed.

200 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:11:30pm

But but but...

Its more than just an imaginary jobs creation program in an imaginary industry.

Its the DREAM REBORN!

On the 40th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr's assassination in April 2008, Green for All held a conference in Memphis, Tennessee to "deepen relationships and skills in the arena of climate justice" and to help build "opportunity for poor communities in the new green economy."

All for only $125 million annually.

201 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:11:41pm

re: #156 JamesTKirk

Do not make Hillary joke.
Do not make Hillary joke.
Do not make Hillary joke.


This from a man who sleeps with green aliens.

202 ladycatnip  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:11:44pm

Charles,
From your downding, you don't think his position on white polluters directing it to black communities is out there or extreme?

203 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:11:53pm

re: #152 ladycatnip

#104 kansas

Thanks for the video. This guy is out there. "White polluters" steering polution to the black communities. Now there's paranoia for ya. So why wouild we give him any credit when he believes this nonsense.

Actually, it happens a lot. It's an economic issue. If you are setting up a recycling center, for instance, which requires a fair amount of space, are you going to purchase land on the rich side of town, where land costs are huge, or on the poor side of town where it is cheap?

So, yeah, polluting industries and facilities end up where the land is cheap. Is that racism? Not by a capitalist standard, that's business. Is the fact that municipal and state governments let it happen again and again with lax zoning laws and enforcement racism?

Now *that's* a good question for discussion. There is absolutely no doubt that poor people, be they poor whites in Appalachian coal country, or blacks and hispanics in urban environments, get the shit end of the stick with filthy industries.

204 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:11:55pm

It's like Alice in Wonderland with guilty first, trial afterwards attitudes some are displaying.

205 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:12:03pm

re: #174 jaunte

Greenjob.

Bureaucratic version of a handjob.

206 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:12:08pm

re: #156 JamesTKirk

Do not make Hillary joke.
Do not make Hillary joke.
Do not make Hillary joke.

So when does Hillary resign to run against Barack?

207 AtadOFF  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:12:08pm

re: #5 Charles

When was his name added? If it was years ago why would the Truthers even bother as Jones would have been a nobody.

I do agree that we need more that the Truthers say so though.

208 Kenneth  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:12:11pm

re: #157 zombie


Katrina kind of supplanted that. But 2004 is the precise year that someone like Jones would sign a petition like that. So to me it's not an outrageous claim.

Jones is protean and shifts with the times. Trutherism was hip in 2004; now it's not.

I accept his statement that he does believe in it anymore. But he never actually addressed the issue of how his name got on the petition.

Exactly.

"I did not sign that petition, Miss Troofer."

209 Billy Bob  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:12:12pm

Shhh...(whisper voice) Did you hear that Van Jones called Democrats A-holes? Someone even told me that he thought his boss is an A-hole too, but I dont' want him to get in trouble...shhh...dont' tell anyone, O.K.?

210 snowcrash  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:12:18pm

re: #196 Pianobuff
Tommorrow is Friday of a 3 day weekend. He is hoping it is forgottten

211 itellu3times  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:12:28pm

re: #199 MandyManners

One of the things I like about the British court system is the honking-huge verdict a plaintiff can get when libel is committed.

And the loser much more often (always?) pays winner's legal costs.

212 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:12:28pm

re: #182 FrogMarch

OT - the pinkie finger did not get re-attached.

(good thing the deranged angry Obama supporting finger biter wasn't a "tea partier" - otherwise - this would be a big damn deal.

I guess if he were, we'd have to ignore the fact that he lost his finger punching someone in the mouth, twice, right?

213 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:12:30pm

re: #191 MAVCON

So Charles this guy gets a pass on everything else?

Where did Charles say that?

214 Kenneth  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:13:04pm

re: #207 AtadOFF

signed in 2004

215 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:13:07pm

re: #206 unrealizedviewpoint

So when does Hillary resign to run against Barack?


After the Dems lose 100 seats in the house next year.. Possibly also the Senate..

Rove has an uncanny accuracy in his predictions...

216 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:13:25pm

re: #198 Charles

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?

A lot of that running wild. Maybe threads are too fast.
Evelyn Wood Reading Dynamics.

217 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:13:35pm

re: #212 Slumbering Behemoth

I guess if he were, we'd have to ignore the fact that he lost his finger punching someone in the mouth, twice, right?

It's often a mistake to punch a stranger.

218 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:11pm

re: #217 jaunte

It's often a mistake to punch a stranger.

Yup.. especially when you stick your finger in the guy's mouth...

219 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:12pm

re: #203 austin_blue

Actually, it happens a lot. It's an economic issue. If you are setting up a recycling center, for instance, which requires a fair amount of space, are you going to purchase land on the rich side of town, where land costs are huge, or on the poor side of town where it is cheap?

So, yeah, polluting industries and facilities end up where the land is cheap. Is that racism? Not by a capitalist standard, that's business. Is the fact that municipal and state governments let it happen again and again with lax zoning laws and enforcement racism?

Now *that's* a good question for discussion. There is absolutely no doubt that poor people, be they poor whites in Appalachian coal country, or blacks and hispanics in urban environments, get the shit end of the stick with filthy industries.

Absolutely.

Links here:
re: #186 reine.de.tout

LadyC - I don't like this Van Jones fellow.
The "white polluters" might be over the top, but when he talks about industry polluting low-income minority areas and not seeming to give a damn, he is correct.

Rollins Environmental Services, Baton Rouge LA

More: Rollins Environmental Services

220 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:17pm

BTW - has anyone noticed that, with 18 Czars, the whole idea of "Czar" goes out the window?

Being a Czar in Washington is like being a Prince in Saudi Arabia - you get lots of nice stuff and you get to abuse people but you don't get much in the way of real power.

Washington mocks itself.

221 jones  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:17pm

re: #197 kansas

Thanks. That seems pretty fucked up.

Evil is a term that comes to mind.

222 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:19pm

re: #180 Charles

I've been searching all day for confirmation that Jones is a Truther. If it was true, I was ready to join in the calls for him to resign.

I turned up NOTHING. I found absolutely NO evidence that he's ever said anything to anyone that supports 9/11 Trutherism.

The accusation is completely bogus.

But that's not stopping some from assuming he's a sekrit troofer.

223 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:20pm

re: #215 DrNaughty

After the Dems lose 100 seats in the house next year.. Possibly also the Senate..

Rove has an uncanny accuracy in his predictions...

I'd like to see the Dems lose 100 seats in the Senate.

No, really. Negative Senators. It would be great. After all, there are already irrational and imaginary Senators, no reason why there can't be negative ones.

224 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:20pm

re: #216 unrealizedviewpoint

A lot of that running wild. Maybe threads are too fast.
Evelyn Wood Reading Dynamics.

Uh-oh. Are we approaching flounce-frequency yet?

225 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:36pm

re: #212 Slumbering Behemoth

I guess if he were, we'd have to ignore the fact that he lost his finger punching someone in the mouth, twice, right?

The angry pro-Obama guy came came up and harassed him. I'm not saying his punching was a good idea. But biting a finger off is kind of a permanent disfigurement. black eyes usually heal.

226 MAVCON  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:44pm

Yeah I guess I do Thanks for pointing it out

227 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:50pm

re: #172 zombie

It is not wingutty parsing of his statement. The issue at hand was: How did your name get on that petition?

And as mentioned, it's impossible for him to explain that.

But I appreciate that you'll admit this is a non-issue.

228 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:15:19pm

re: #222 Sharmuta

But that's not stopping some from assuming he's a sekrit troofer.

I guess now we're going to have to admit that really doesn't melt steel.
///

229 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:15:51pm

re: #220 karmic_inquisitor

Maybe we should call them miniczars.

230 KennyR  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:04pm

re: #193 Slumbering Behemoth

Damn, you did it again! I'm going to hide my IP address and go to bed.

231 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:06pm

re: #199 MandyManners

One of the things I like about the British court system is the honking-huge verdict a plaintiff can get when libel is committed.

No doubt. Makes people think twice before telling falsehoods. The old penalty in England was removing one's tongue. Unless you could afford an indemnity.

232 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:14pm

re: #221 jones

Evil is a term that comes to mind.

More scholarly than mine.

233 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:16pm

re: #228 Slumbering Behemoth

I guess now we're going to have to admit that really doesn't melt steel.
///

But will it melt Steele?

234 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:32pm

re: #222 Sharmuta

The desire to find something that will inflict damage on BHO is very strong.

235 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:33pm

re: #201 Jim in Virginia

This from a man who sleeps with green aliens.

Those green aliens look like a lot more fun than vampires...

236 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:41pm

re: #180 Charles

I've been searching all day for confirmation that Jones is a Truther. If it was true, I was ready to join in the calls for him to resign.

I turned up NOTHING. I found absolutely NO evidence that he's ever said anything to anyone that supports 9/11 Trutherism.

The accusation is completely bogus.

But what about this document released by the Ella Baker Center when Jones was the head honcho there and giving quotes from Jones' group STORM, calling 9/11 a "bombing" with the statement

"No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings..."

...right below a quote from Jones.

It certainly pouts his in the Truther-Zone -- flirting with Truthism.

(And the was released nearly two months after 9/11, when it was well-known who did it - -at the very beginning of the truther movement.)

237 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:45pm

re: #231 Flyers1974

No doubt. Makes people think twice before telling falsehoods. The old penalty in England was removing one's tongue. Unless you could afford an indemnity.

I'm glad we booted King George.

238 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:45pm

re: #228 Slumbering Behemoth

People aren't interested in the truth, just what confirms their pre-existing biases. I see plenty of proof of this on this thread.

239 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:47pm

re: #225 FrogMarch

The guy lost his finger in the process of punching the other guy in the mouth. The puncher inserted his own finger into the punchee's mouth. Tough shit, I say.

240 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:50pm

re: #229 jaunte

Maybe we should call them miniczars.

Yes - they'd be more eco-friendly that way.

/

241 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:17:00pm

re: #235 Van Helsing

Those green aliens look like a lot more fun than vampires...

And the next morning, you're not a green alien yourself.

242 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:17:09pm

re: #227 iceweasel

And as mentioned, it's impossible for him to explain that.

But I appreciate that you'll admit this is a non-issue.

It's not impossible at all to say he didn't sign it.

243 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:17:10pm

re: #199 MandyManners

One of the things I like about the British court system is the honking-huge verdict a plaintiff can get when libel is committed.

And that same "wonderful" system allows Saudi billionaires to sue people who write books exposing their support for Islamic terrorism.

244 Pianobuff  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:17:30pm

re: #227 iceweasel

And as mentioned, it's impossible for him to explain that.

But I appreciate that you'll admit this is a non-issue.

Do you think he will end up clarifying and at least stating that he did not approve his signature and has no idea how he got on the list?

245 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:17:37pm

A lot of "main stream" democrats were troofers to varying degrees. It fit the Bush-hate template and it was politically convenient in certain situations. Howard Dean anyone? Hillary? It wouldn't surprise me if Van Jones signed on. It wouldn't surprise me if troofers lie.

246 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:17:50pm

re: #229 jaunte

Maybe we should call them miniczars.

Czarinas?

247 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:18:12pm

LIVE
Dick Morris says Van Jones as Green Czar would be in charge of implementing Obama's Cap & Trade (tax) environmental legislation.

Dick Morris says who is the White House using for vetters?

Dick Morris says Van Jones has got to go.

And Dick Morris knows from sleaze!

248 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:18:13pm

re: #246 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Czarettos?

249 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:18:16pm

re: #236 zombie

It certainly pouts his in the Truther-Zone
=
It certainly puts him in the Truther-Zone

PIMF

250 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:18:19pm

re: #219 reine.de.tout

Except the dichotomy Van Jones chose was "white" and "black", not "rich" and "poor".

251 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:18:21pm

Screw it, it's just a side issue distraction. Fucking trillions in the red, and Sunshine wants another blank check. GimmeGimmeGimme.
Bank accounts empty.

252 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:18:24pm

re: #207 AtadOFF

When was his name added? If it was years ago why would the Truthers even bother as Jones would have been a nobody.

I do agree that we need more that the Truthers say so though.

What we need was was Jones to deny that he signed it.
"...it does not reflect my views now or ever."
Those are weasel words, "It depends on what the meaning of is,is."
Sounds pretty clear that he signed it, or he would have said so.

253 ladycatnip  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:18:36pm

#186 reine.de.tout

LadyC - I don't like this Van Jones fellow.
The "white polluters" might be over the top, but when he talks about industry polluting low-income minority areas and not seeming to give a damn, he is correct.

I can understand if he were calling them out against all low-income communities, as many polluted areas are all poor white folks. I have an issue with him making this a racial issue. Polluting is wrong, period. Polluters are scum, companies that pollute should be shut down. White kids, Hispanic kids, black kids have all died as a result of toxic pollutants.

254 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:18:56pm

re: #223 JamesTKirk

I'd like to see the Dems lose 100 seats in the Senate.

No, really. Negative Senators. It would be great. After all, there are already irrational and imaginary Senators, no reason why there can't be negative ones.

lol I meant lose the majority they have in the Senate.

Obama's major problem is that he is agenda driven.. He's rolling the dice on health care, and if he loses .. he may have a chance to recover so the Democrats don't get swept by the tidal wave of disapproval which is starting this summer as the moderates that put him into office decide that they've had enough of his 'change' and opt out of supporting the Democrats...

A 100 seat gain the the house and at least a 20 seat gain in the senate is emmenently possible as long as the Republicans don't have an ajenda other than lowering taxes and reducing federal spending as well as repealing everything that Obama did in his first two years.

Keep Abortion and all the Holy Rollers wanting to control your life out of it and they'll clean up ...

255 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:19:04pm

Allah sums things up thusly, and I happen to agree with his possible outcomes. I don't know if I agree with his conclusion though:

Three possibilities. One: The Truthers are lying and simply added names of activists like Jones who, um, no one had ever heard of when the petition was circulated in 2004. If that’s true, it’s curious that people like Ed Asner and Janeane Garofalo, whose names are also on there, apparently haven’t objected in the five years since. Two: As I said in the Beck post, maybe Jones doesn’t actually believe the theory but signed on for the sheer romantic rebel pseudo-intellectual glory of it. In that case, we’re in the same situation as we were with Ron Paul when he denied having written the racist crap in those old Ron Paul newsletters: Even if he’s telling the truth, the fact that he approved it proves he’s either too stupid or careless to be trusted with power. Or three: Jones is lying. Unless the correct answer is number one — and it’s mighty curious that Jones isn’t saying it is — then he’s got to go. Pull the trap door, Barry.

We have tax cheats confirmed by Congress to head the Treasury. We have all manner of corruptocrat in Congress and the Administration. This guy's a weasel. He might even be a closet troofer. Why shouldn't he be in this Administration? He fits in perfectly.

Meanwhile, a real corruptocrat - Charles Rangel still gets to sit in the House and decide tax policy while the ethics committee members happen to have received campaign contributions from ... Rangel. Yeah, we've got corruption all the way around.

256 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:19:07pm

re: #239 Slumbering Behemoth

The guy lost his finger in the process of punching the other guy in the mouth. The puncher inserted his own finger into the punchee's mouth. Tough shit, I say.

That video is doctored!

He bit off his OWN finger!

257 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:19:09pm

re: #243 Charles

And that same "wonderful" system allows Saudi billionaires to sue people who write books exposing their support for Islamic terrorism.

Oops! I'd forgotten about that case.

Don't the Brits allow truth to be the defense in a libel case?

258 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:19:16pm

re: #173 alegrias

* * * *
Less than sixty days until election day in Virginia and New Jersey.

Do what you can to help, please.

No matter what the WaPo says, I like McDonnell. Bolling is cool. Cucinelli creeps me out.

259 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:19:22pm

re: #248 jaunte

Czarettos?

Czar Babies?

260 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:19:38pm

re: #172 zombie

It is not wingutty parsing of his statement. The issue at hand was: How did your name get on that petition? He never answered that. He only answered the larger question of whether or not he is a Truther.

I will admit however that this is certainly a tempest in a teapot, a mountain out of a molehill. A very trivial issue blown way out of proportion.

Okay, I'll fess up. *I* put it there. I mistyped *Alex Jones* and the rest is Internet history.

Poor Van, trying to prove a nebulous negative. And it's all my fault.

///

261 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:19:43pm

re: #236 zombie

You are grasping at straws.

262 ladycatnip  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:19:58pm

#203 austin_blue

I completely agree with you. Totally. Well said.

263 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:20:03pm

re: #212 Slumbering Behemoth

I guess if he were, we'd have to ignore the fact that he lost his finger punching someone in the mouth, twice, right?

y
The old guy was assaulted & defended himself.

264 snowcrash  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:20:27pm

re: #244 Pianobuff
If he gets pressure from the chief of staff or a friendly call from the President, sure. I think he will say whatever is necessary.

265 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:20:31pm

re: #238 Sharmuta

Sadly, you are correct. We've seen it before, when some state with certainty that a recent accident was a muslim terrorist attack before investigators even have a chance to reach the scene.

266 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:20:33pm

re: #215 DrNaughty

After the Dems lose 100 seats in the house next year.. Possibly also the Senate..

Rove has an uncanny accuracy in his predictions...

Be kind of hard to lose 100 seats in the Senate.
/

267 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:20:33pm

re: #239 Slumbering Behemoth

The guy lost his finger in the process of punching the other guy in the mouth. The puncher inserted his own finger into the punchee's mouth. Tough shit, I say.

100% agreement.

268 leftover54  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:20:54pm

re: #11 lawhawk

Including: He did not state emphatically 'I've never signed such a petition and never would'.
If he was sand bagged with the question I don't blame him for being vague about this. It's possible he needed time to think on it a bit so as not to dig a bigger hole for himself.
Still, given the subject of the petition - well, I know I can say I've never signed such a petition (and I've signed many petitions over the past 5 years) without a seconds hesitation.
He's either willing to entertain the notion that he was 'set up'
and unwittingly signed such a petition or the allegation set forth in the petition was not out of the realm of consideration by him. Both scenarios say a lot about the man (IMHO).

269 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:20:58pm

re: #255 lawhawk

Number 2 is a highly plausible theory to my mind.

270 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:21:00pm

re: #259 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Czar Babies?

Czarcozies? No, too French sounding.

271 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:21:02pm

re: #236 zombie

But what about this document released by the Ella Baker Center when Jones was the head honcho there and giving quotes from Jones' group STORM, calling 9/11 a "bombing" with the statement

"No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings..."

...right below a quote from Jones.

It certainly pouts his in the Truther-Zone -- flirting with Truthism.

(And the was released nearly two months after 9/11, when it was well-known who did it - -at the very beginning of the truther movement.)

That statement from STORM was released weeks after 9/11, when no one knew the full story. Lots of people were talking about the "bombing" of the World Trade Center then. That is not any kind of support for the contention that Van Jones is a Truther -- in fact, if that's all you can come up with, it reinforces my point that there is no evidence.

272 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:21:10pm

re: #250 OldLineTexan

Except the dichotomy Van Jones chose was "white" and "black", not "rich" and "poor".

Yes, true. I don't like Van Jones or how he characterized this as coming from "white polluters", and I said that when I posted the links.

But the fact is that the low-income black section of Baton Rouge suffered terribly. And no one cared. I thought it was terrible then, and those folks needed relief - and I'm glad to say the situation does not exist today. But it did happen.

273 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:21:37pm

re: #243 Charles

And that same "wonderful" system allows Saudi billionaires to sue people who write books exposing their support for Islamic terrorism.

* * *
Rachel Ehrenfeld is one super hero, for fighting back.

274 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:21:50pm

re: #243 Charles

And that same "wonderful" system allows Saudi billionaires to sue people who write books exposing their support for Islamic terrorism.

Well, there is that...


But, but, but...they're our allies, aren't they? In the war against Sallafist based terror groups?

Oh, wait...

275 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:22:02pm

re: #236 zombie

But what about this document released by the Ella Baker Center when Jones was the head honcho there and giving quotes from Jones' group STORM, calling 9/11 a "bombing" with the statement

"No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings..."

...right below a quote from Jones.

It certainly pouts his in the Truther-Zone -- flirting with Truthism.

(And the was released nearly two months after 9/11, when it was well-known who did it - -at the very beginning of the truther movement.)

In context, I see it differently, which Arab minority will get the blame. I see not one thing wrong with the statement.

"No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings, we cannot tolerate stereotypes and blanket attacks against any ethnic group," said Raquel of STORM. "And we especially don't want Asian-American, African-American, Latino or Native American communities getting pulled into a frenzy of hatred toward our sisters and brothers. We must stand together."

276 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:22:04pm

re: #206 unrealizedviewpoint

So when does Hillary resign to run against Barack?


Depends on how badly the Dems do in 2010 and if she gets fired because Obama's foreign policy is flailing.
I predict December 2010.

277 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:22:32pm

re: #236 zombie

But what about this document released by the Ella Baker Center when Jones was the head honcho there and giving quotes from Jones' group STORM, calling 9/11 a "bombing" with the statement

"No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings..."

...right below a quote from Jones.

It certainly pouts his in the Truther-Zone -- flirting with Truthism.

(And the was released nearly two months after 9/11, when it was well-known who did it - -at the very beginning of the truther movement.)


Right on!

278 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:22:40pm

re: #263 opnion

y
The old guy was assaulted & defended himself.

Assaulted how?

279 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:22:42pm

re: #245 FrogMarch
DING!

280 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:22:53pm

re: #276 Jim in Virginia

Depends on how badly the Dems do in 2010 and if she gets fired because Obama's foreign policy is flailing.
I predict December 2010.

I predict about Thanksgiving 2010...

281 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:23:09pm

re: #271 Charles

That statement from STORM was released weeks after 9/11, when no one knew the full story. Lots of people were talking about the "bombing" of the World Trade Center then.

We may not have known the full story, but we all saw planes hitting the WTC on every channel, constantly repeating, the day it happened.

282 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:23:13pm

Ward Churchill for Indian Affairs Czar!

/left wing crazies, collect the whole set

283 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:23:37pm

re: #281 JamesTKirk

We may not have known the full story, but we all saw planes hitting the WTC on every channel, constantly repeating, the day it happened.

I haven't seen that video in a long time

284 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:23:38pm

Jones writes:

[W]e are entering an era during which our very survival will demand invention and innovation on a scale never before seen in the history of human civilization.

Uh, say what?

So in the end, our success and survival as a species are largely and directly tied to the new eco-entrepreneurs

Sweet barking Jupiter. This guy has the President's ear while the same President routinely denigrates Exxon Mobil and others who provide the energy and the power for our daily existence.

285 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:23:38pm
286 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:23:41pm

re: #255 lawhawk

This guy's a weasel. He might even be a closet troofer. Why shouldn't he be in this Administration? He fits in perfectly.

Thank you for spelling out the problem.

287 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:23:51pm

re: #257 MandyManners

Oops! I'd forgotten about that case.

Don't the Brits allow truth to be the defense in a libel case?

I believe so. I'm trying to recall that McDonald's case where I think that was the defense. I'll have to check.

288 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:23:53pm

re: #272 reine.de.tout

Yes, true. I don't like Van Jones or how he characterized this as coming from "white polluters", and I said that when I posted the links.

But the fact is that the low-income black section of Baton Rouge suffered terribly. And no one cared. I thought it was terrible then, and those folks needed relief - and I'm glad to say the situation does not exist today. But it did happen.

I have personal experience with a Superfund site.

289 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:24:24pm

re: #282 Killian Bundy

Ward Churchill for Indian Affairs Czar!

/left wing crazies, collect the whole set

Now that's funny. LMAO.

290 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:24:26pm

re: #283 DrNaughty

I haven't seen that video in a long time

That's because they decided to stop showing it. It had the unfortunate side-effect of reminding people why we were fighting terrorists.

291 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:24:35pm

re: #244 Pianobuff

Do you think he will end up clarifying and at least stating that he did not approve his signature and has no idea how he got on the list?

IMHO, the carob tree will uproot itself and move 400 amot before that happens.

292 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:25:15pm

re: #281 JamesTKirk

We may not have known the full story, but we all saw planes hitting the WTC on every channel, constantly repeating, the day it happened.

But see planes could not have actually brought down the towers, cause first fire does not melt steel or something///

293 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:25:21pm

re: #261 Sharmuta

You are grasping at straws.

I don't see how. The document places Jones at the cusp of Trutherism; it's not such a stretch to see how he could take the extra half-step to signing that petition (or allowing his name to be put on it).

I never imagined this issue would grow so huge. I have personal knowledge about Jones that I'm loathe to reveal in public which puts him all over the truther scene and other bizarre conspiracy scenes. I don't know about this petition specifically, but I have with my own eyes seen Jones at Truther events. Problem is, I can't prove it - at least without exposing myself. So I will remain mute on the subject.

294 jill e  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:25:28pm

I'm just bothered by the whole czar thing. What kind of background checks/investigations are done on them prior to access to vital government information? Just looking at the problems Obama's cabinet appointees had...it's bothersome!

295 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:25:31pm

re: #253 ladycatnip

#186 reine.de.tout

I can understand if he were calling them out against all low-income communities, as many polluted areas are all poor white folks. I have an issue with him making this a racial issue. Polluting is wrong, period. Polluters are scum, companies that pollute should be shut down. White kids, Hispanic kids, black kids have all died as a result of toxic pollutants.

Yes, and I said I thought the "white polluters" was over the top, and you are correct, it affects many low-income areas. But his basic point is not incorrect.

296 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:26:08pm

I have an idea -

We offer $4,500 to Obama for every inefficient Czar that he trades in for a more efficient one.

Cash for Bootlickers.

297 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:26:11pm

re: #293 zombie

I don't see how. The document places Jones at the cusp of Trutherism; it's not such a stretch to see how he could take the extra half-step to signing that petition (or allowing his name to be put on it).

I never imagined this issue would grow so huge. I have personal knowledge about Jones that I'm loathe to reveal in public which puts him all over the truther scene and other bizarre conspiracy scenes. I don't know about this petition specifically, but I have with my own eyes seen Jones at Truther events. Problem is, I can't prove it - at least without exposing myself. So I will remain mute on the subject.

I trust you, Zombie.

298 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:26:11pm

re: #292 kansas

But see planes could not have actually brought down the towers, cause first fire does not melt steel or something///

I've seen plenty of steel trusses fail and roofs collapse during fires...

299 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:26:35pm

re: #296 karmic_inquisitor

I have an idea -

We offer $4,500 to Obama for every inefficient Czar that he trades in for a more efficient one.

Cash for Bootlickers.

Cash-for-Piecesofshit.

300 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:26:46pm

re: #293 zombie

I don't see how. The document places Jones at the cusp of Trutherism; it's not such a stretch to see how he could take the extra half-step to signing that petition (or allowing his name to be put on it).

I never imagined this issue would grow so huge. I have personal knowledge about Jones that I'm loathe to reveal in public which puts him all over the truther scene and other bizarre conspiracy scenes. I don't know about this petition specifically, but I have with my own eyes seen Jones at Truther events. Problem is, I can't prove it - at least without exposing myself. So I will remain mute on the subject.

Isn't Cynthia McKinney a Greenie and a truther?

301 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:27:00pm

re: #220 karmic_inquisitor

BTW - has anyone noticed that, with 18 Czars, the whole idea of "Czar" goes out the window?

Being a Czar in Washington is like being a Prince in Saudi Arabia - you get lots of nice stuff and you get to abuse people but you don't get much in the way of real power.

Washington mocks itself.


I once had a client whose organization had severe job title inflation. Every project manager was a vice president. It was worse than banks. After a year or so, someone at a higher level decided to DO SOMETHING. So my client, along with a dozen other senior PMs, became a President.
Damn impressive business card.

302 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:27:15pm

re: #293 zombie

Problem is, I can't prove it - at least without exposing myself.

Exposing yourself would at least let us finally know which pronouns to use when referring to you.

303 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:27:29pm

re: #300 MandyManners

Isn't Cynthia McKinney a Greenie and a truther?

All of the above as well as a deranged nut

304 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:27:36pm

re: #288 OldLineTexan

I have personal experience with a Superfund site.

This same area of Baton Rouge has a superfund site nearby (Devil's Swamp).

I'm guessing this site is near where you live? Or is it something you did work for or on?

305 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:27:40pm

re: #281 JamesTKirk

We may not have known the full story, but we all saw planes hitting the WTC on every channel, constantly repeating, the day it happened.

Yes, and the planes were utilized as high velocity, kerosene fueled, Molotov cocktails. Bombs. Damn effective, too, may they all rot in hell.

306 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:27:49pm

re: #272 reine.de.tout

Yes, true. I don't like Van Jones or how he characterized this as coming from "white polluters", and I said that when I posted the links.

But the fact is that the low-income black section of Baton Rouge suffered terribly. And no one cared. I thought it was terrible then, and those folks needed relief - and I'm glad to say the situation does not exist today. But it did happen.

Exactly right. When Van Jones said that "white environmentalists" were tilting the regulations to keep the pollution out of their own backyards, and thereby funneling it into minority neighborhoods, he was NOT entirely wrong. There's a very substantial history of this happening, and not just in New Orleans.

307 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:28:22pm

re: #300 MandyManners

Isn't Cynthia McKinney a Greenie and a truther?

Egads. I just Googled McKinney and Jones.

308 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:28:24pm

re: #278 Slumbering Behemoth

Assaulted how?

There was a young gut interviewed my Mark Stein on the radio this afternoon.
There was a very organized Move On group there to support Obama.
There was a small group of anti Obama Care protestors on the corner.
According to the young guy, the pro Obama guy crossed the street & confronted the old guy & pulled him into the street. His eye witness account is that the guy just fought back.

309 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:28:49pm

re: #271 Charles

That statement from STORM was released weeks after 9/11, when no one knew the full story. Lots of people were talking about the "bombing" of the World Trade Center then. That is not any kind of support for the contention that Van Jones is a Truther -- in fact, if that's all you can come up with, it reinforces my point that there is no evidence.

I didn't come up with that - -it was posted by Kenneth on an earlier thread. I was just reposting it to remind people.

So far, I have made zero effort to look for verifiable evidence of Jones's Truther-intersected past. And I will not do so, because, a. I don't care; b. It's a mountain out of a molehill; and c. If I prove it, I will potentially expose myself.

310 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:29:00pm

re: #296 karmic_inquisitor

I have an idea -

We offer $4,500 to Obama for every inefficient Czar that he trades in for a more efficient one.

Cash for Bootlickers.

The program is already in-place with 100x multiplier.

Czar you tomorrow. ;)

311 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:29:02pm

re: #298 DrNaughty

I've seen plenty of steel trusses fail and roofs collapse during fires...

I was being sarcastic. Popular Mechanics and the History Channel have done documentaries that show how trusses are weakened and fail and how the construction of the trade center resulted in the pancaking of the floors as no floor was designed to bear the weight of another.

312 Irish Rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:29:12pm

OT but good lawd people, what on earth is going on down in Orlando?

Spencer and Geller have turned the Bary hearings into a damned circus.

In court, Krista Bartholomew, Bary's guardian ad litem, said this case was "not a holy war," but that's what this has become over the last month.

Before the hearing on Thursday, outside in front of the courthouse, Tom Trento held a news conference, as he did before the first hearing. He's from the Florida Security Council, an organization with the slogan of "Securing Florida Against Terror." This time, though, he brought a pastor from Ohio and a pair of anti-Islam bloggers.

Jamal Jivanjee, the Ohio pastor, compared Rifqa Bary to Anne Frank, the Jewish girl who was killed by Nazis in World War II and whose diary became what many consider one of the most important books of the 20th century.

Robert Spencer, who writes on a blog called Jihad Watch, told reporters Islam was here to take over America. Pam Geller of the Atlas Shrugs blog dismissed the results of the Franklin County investigation by saying things were "corrupt in Ohio."

"Forget your political correctness!" she said.

Muslim businessman Mohammad Lutfi of Orlando yelled that Trento, Spencer and Geller were "conservative, right-wing militants" and "crusaders."

Later, after the hearing, the attorneys made hasty exists, citing the new gag order. They hurried past the TV trucks, the reporters, the cameras, the shouting, red-faced, finger-pointing scrum.

I think the reporter for the St. Pete Times meant to call them "scum".

Haven't been over to either site tonight, but I'm guessing that their front pages contain the usual HYSTERIA!!! and self-promotion.

313 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:29:19pm

re: #303 DrNaughty

All of the above as well as a deranged nut

Didn't she also claim that there were thousands of black prisoners killed and buried in the bayous during/after Katrina?

314 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:29:39pm

re: #307 MandyManners

Egads. I just Googled McKinney and Jones.

Bless your virgin eyes...

315 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:29:42pm

re: #281 JamesTKirk

We may not have known the full story, but we all saw planes hitting the WTC on every channel, constantly repeating, the day it happened.

Yes, and the statement did not challenge that, it just said that attacking minorities that happened to be Arab without proof they were in any way responsible is wrong.

316 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:29:43pm

re: #258 Jim in Virginia

No matter what the WaPo says, I like McDonnell. Bolling is cool. Cucinelli creeps me out.

* * * *
The Washington Post was cool with the GOP candidate for Governor, McDonnell, until their democrat started losing in the polls.

Remember James Webb our democrat senator was vociferously against women serving in the military or getting into the military academies? Yet democrats elected Jim Webb to the Senate, where he now dances with dictators like Hillary Clinton & Madeline Allbright.

Why are you still reading the WashPost when you can predict what they'll say?

317 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:29:50pm

re: #307 MandyManners

Egads. I just Googled McKinney and Jones.

She represented the urban area of Atlanta, including Georgia State University and Emory University...

Even her Black base got sick of her and elected another Black to replace her..

318 leftover54  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:30:03pm

re: #175 The Shadow Do

    "...we elected the man " ???

319 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:30:20pm

re: #309 zombie

I didn't come up with that - -it was posted by Kenneth on an earlier thread. I was just reposting it to remind people.

So far, I have made zero effort to look for verifiable evidence of Jones's Truther-intersected past. And I will not do so, because, a. I don't care; b. It's a mountain out of a molehill; and c. If I prove it, I will potentially expose myself.

I have made the effort.

I've been searching all day. If the accusation was true, you'd see me calling for Jones' resignation right now.

There is NO evidence of this on the web. None. Just his name on a 9/11 Truthers' list.

320 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:30:23pm

re: #304 reine.de.tout

This same area of Baton Rouge has a superfund site nearby (Devil's Swamp).

I'm guessing this site is near where you live? Or is it something you did work for or on?

Lived near it (unknowingly) for years. Lived next to it (knowingly) after it was supposedly remediated. Not exactly correct ... had to bug out, etc.

Mixed-bag neighborhood of lower-middle class and middle-middle-class folks was wiped out.

But hey, it's been cleaned up now that we sued and sued and sued.

No racist crap needed.

321 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:30:34pm

re: #317 DrNaughty

She represented the urban area of Atlanta, including Georgia State University and Emory University...

Even her Black base got sick of her and elected another Black to replace her..

And she somehow managed to blame that on racism.

322 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:31:04pm

re: #276 Jim in Virginia

Depends on how badly the Dems do in 2010 and if she gets fired because Obama's foreign policy is flailing.
I predict December 2010.

Hillary has no option but to resign and run. She has to be President! To win, she will drag his policies stinking through the streets. Obama's got no chance even if he wins the nomination. She will destroy him.

323 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:31:09pm

re: #297 TheMatrix31

I trust you, Zombie.

I do too, I don't see an agenda.

324 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:31:14pm

re: #288 OldLineTexan

I have personal experience with a Superfund site.


Do you glow in the dark or did you get the super powers option?
Time for bed. Play nice y'all.

325 slokat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:31:55pm

Van Jones can express himself when he wants to...

Let's Rescue America

326 The False God  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:31:57pm
In a statement issued Thursday evening Jones said of “the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever.”

I'm not saying he signed it or not, as I don't have enough information, but if you didn't sign something, the first words that should come out of your mouth should be "I did not sign that. My name was used without my permission.", not a refutation of the beliefs themselves.

As he hasn't said "he didn't sign it", I can only assume he did sign it and is trying to enact emergency force fields so he can begin repairs.

I don't trust "Truthers", as they are insane, but I also don't trust double-speak/obfuscation, which is what his answer seems to be.

Did he sign it? If he didn't, just say he didn't. Don't start in on how you totally don't mean any of that stuff, "past or present." It makes you look unreasonably guilty.

327 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:32:01pm

History of the World: Part I is on. I'm gonna' slack off.

328 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:32:16pm

re: #281 JamesTKirk

We may not have known the full story, but we all saw planes hitting the WTC on every channel, constantly repeating, the day it happened.

That's kinda what I was thinking.

I saw the plane hit the second tower, live, on TV, on September 11

"Bombing"?

"Whoever is proved responsible"?

C'mon.

By 9:30am on September 11 we knew it was planes that hit the towers, not a controlled bombing. By September 13, it was verified to be Islamic terrorists.

That STORM/Ella Baker statement was released two months afterward.

329 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:32:25pm

re: #322 unrealizedviewpoint

Hillary has no option but to resign and run. She has to be President! To win, she will drag his policies stinking through the streets. Obama's got no chance even if he wins the nomination. She will destroy him.

I predict the nastiest primary season in at least 100 years. Ever since the Republicans dragged out Grover Cleveland's love child ...

330 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:32:37pm

re: #324 Jim in Virginia

Do you glow in the dark or did you get the super powers option?
Time for bed. Play nice y'all.

You see this computer? It's not actually plugged in ...

/

331 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:32:51pm

re: #309 zombie

So far, I have made zero effort to look for verifiable evidence of Jones's Truther-intersected past. And I will not do so, because, a. I don't care; b. It's a mountain out of a molehill; and c. If I prove it, I will potentially expose myself.

I stopped exposing myself years ago.

332 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:33:18pm

re: #308 opnion

There was a young gut interviewed my Mark Stein on the radio this afternoon.
There was a very organized Move On group there to support Obama.
There was a small group of anti Obama Care protestors on the corner.
According to the young guy, the pro Obama guy crossed the street & confronted the old guy & pulled him into the street. His eye witness account is that the guy just fought back.

Factually incorrect.

Rice got involved in a heated discussion with a member of Code Pink, said sheriff’s Capt. Ross Bonfiglio, a department spokesman. After the argument, Rice returned to where his group was standing. An unidentified man then walked from Moveon.org’s area toward the opponents and verbally confronted Rice, allegedly calling him names and acting aggressively, Bonfiglio said.

Rice told investigators he felt threatened by the man and punched him in the nose, Bonfiglio said. A fight ensued, during which part of Rice’s finger was bitten off, Bonfiglio said.

333 jamgarr  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:33:30pm

re: #22 karmic_inquisitor

I still think we should bite your pinky off.

/

"A Demo ate me baby (finger)!"

334 Pianobuff  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:33:44pm

What are the odds that Tapper or Garrett asks Gibbs a question that looks for a denial that Jones approved or otherwise knew his name was going on that petition?

335 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:33:57pm

re: #271 Charles

Having been in NYC and Lower Manhattan on 9/11 - and walked through the dust cloud on my walk to walking over the Manhattan Bridge in to Brooklyn, and then following the news to find out if anyone I knew happened to have been murdered in the attacks, the claim that it was a bombing is ... in a word...

preposterous. (well, that's all I'll say about it without going [deleted])

I saw the videos of the plane hits. I saw the collapses. No bombs there - it was all about the jihadis hijacking the planes and flinging them into skyscrapers to incinerate and obliterate tens of thousands of people. We were lucky as only about 3,000 people were murdered. Only.

I do recall reports of bombs in regards for the Pentagon attack, but even that nonsense was demolished with the parking lot video showing the plane slamming into the side of the Pentagon. There were even reports of the State Dept being hit with a bomb, but that turned to be a false rumor.

Where the 9/11 bomb theories have truly taken hold is on the collapse of 7WTC, which came down later in the day on 9/11/01, and there were reports of the building being pulled, but that's because the FDNY was pulling their remaining firefighters away from the building since it was showing signs of collapse after taking serious damage from the collapsing Twin Towers.

In fact, for a week or more, it was thought that other buildings might come down because of the damage sustained.

But the troofers take any discrete statement and turn it into part of the conspiracy.

Did the Troofers add his name to the list? Plausible.
Did Van sign it but now regret it? More likely.
Did Van get caught in Troofer-ville and now realize that he's got to throw someone under the bus? Looking likely.

[deleted]

336 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:33:59pm

I'm not claiming one way or the other, all I'm saying is that I can see if that someone was a fucking nutbag like Jones is, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that there is, in fact, another layer of bullshit to him.

337 The Shadow Do  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:34:12pm

re: #318 leftover54

    "...we elected the man " ???

Yes, we did.

338 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:34:14pm

re: #319 Charles

I have made the effort.

I've been searching all day. If the accusation was true, you'd see me calling for Jones' resignation right now.

I'd join you if there was proof that he was a ex felon and a current Communist as Beck states.

339 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:34:22pm

re: #308 opnion

Let me see if I am reading you correctly. Is the young guy saying that the "biter" grabbed the "puncher" first?

I've been reading stuff that says in the "puncher's" tv interview, the "puncher" admitted to being at fault.

340 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:34:31pm

re: #316 alegrias

* * * *
The Washington Post was cool with the GOP candidate for Governor, McDonnell, until their democrat started losing in the polls.

Remember James Webb our democrat senator was vociferously against women serving in the military or getting into the military academies? Yet democrats elected Jim Webb to the Senate, where he now dances with dictators like Hillary Clinton & Madeline Allbright.

Why are you still reading the WashPost when you can predict what they'll say?


Good comics.

341 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:34:39pm

re: #333 jamgarr

"A Demo ate me baby (finger)!"

Leftists do always have this "lean and hungry look'... and tend to be nasty..

Large people, on the other hand, tend to be much more pleasant to be around..

342 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:34:54pm

Again.

There is absolutely NO evidence that Van Jones has ever publicly advocated Trutherism.

None.

I've searched. There is no evidence. You're free to believe otherwise, but if you can't back it up with a link that proves it, you're just talking out of your hat.

343 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:35:00pm

re: #340 Jim in Virginia

Good comics.

They're all online. I stopped reading WaPo and WashTimes years ago.

344 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:35:23pm

re: #320 OldLineTexan

Lived near it (unknowingly) for years. Lived next to it (knowingly) after it was supposedly remediated. Not exactly correct ... had to bug out, etc.

Mixed-bag neighborhood of lower-middle class and middle-middle-class folks was wiped out.

But hey, it's been cleaned up now that we sued and sued and sued.

No racist crap needed.

I don't like the racist crap either, OLT.

And there are indeed neighborhoods other than low-income minority ones that were affected.

Where I live - it's been my personal observation that the low-income minority neighborhoods WERE the ones most affected by these sorts of shenanigans. This wasn't an area with one plant. The area ended up surrounded by 'em. Proximity to the river was one reason; cheap land another. And the plants were NOT good neighbors.

345 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:35:33pm

re: #320 OldLineTexan
Scarsdale/ Sagemont?

346 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:36:01pm

re: #293 zombie

I don't see how. The document places Jones at the cusp of Trutherism; it's not such a stretch to see how he could take the extra half-step to signing that petition (or allowing his name to be put on it).

I never imagined this issue would grow so huge. I have personal knowledge about Jones that I'm loathe to reveal in public which puts him all over the truther scene and other bizarre conspiracy scenes. I don't know about this petition specifically, but I have with my own eyes seen Jones at Truther events. Problem is, I can't prove it - at least without exposing myself. So I will remain mute on the subject.

* * * *
I believe you more than almost anyone. You are brave & we need you alive & well to report the real truth!

347 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:36:03pm

re: #343 JamesTKirk

They're all online. I stopped reading WaPo and WashTimes years ago.

JIm in VA has difficulty dragging his 'puter into the ... ah ... erm ... "office".

/

348 J.S.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:36:13pm

Someone mentioned with respect to whites dumping garbage into black areas (and, yes, this I suppose does indeed occur) -- however, I would like to point out with respect to the City of Toronto (Re; garbage to United States) that Toronto (quote from Wiki): "The demographics of Toronto make Toronto one of the most multicultural cities in the world. Data released by Statistics Canada as part of the 2006 census indicates that Toronto is more ethnically diverse than Miami, Los Angeles, London and New York City." Just as a little reminder to people...

349 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:36:15pm

re: #342 Charles

Again.

There is absolutely NO evidence that Van Jones has ever publicly advocated Trutherism.

None.

I've searched. There is no evidence. You're free to believe otherwise, but if you can't back it up with a link that proves it, you're just talking out of your hat.

It's a cumulation of other statements he made and the views he's stated that caused the problem when they came out in the media.

Personally never heard of the guy until the shit hit the fan..

350 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:36:29pm
351 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:36:35pm

re: #334 Pianobuff

What are the odds that Tapper or Garrett asks Gibbs a question that looks for a denial that Jones approved or otherwise knew his name was going on that petition?

Fair, but Gibbo will simply say that Jones has already answered that in his public statement and then move on to some other question.

352 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:36:39pm

re: #345 Jim in Virginia

Scarsdale/ Sagemont?

Brio, baby!

/Sagemont

353 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:36:42pm
354 noshariaincanada  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:37:03pm

re: #342 Charles

Again.

There is absolutely NO evidence that Van Jones has ever publicly advocated Trutherism.

None.

I've searched. There is no evidence. You're free to believe otherwise, but if you can't back it up with a link that proves it, you're just talking out of your hat.

not to be a pain, but are you saying that if it is not on the web then it does not exist, and further that if you cannot find it on the web then it *surely* cannot exist?

355 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:37:05pm

re: #342 Charles

Again.

There is absolutely NO evidence that Van Jones has ever publicly advocated Trutherism.

None.

I've searched. There is no evidence. You're free to believe otherwise, but if you can't back it up with a link that proves it, you're just talking out of your hat.

Here Here. Lets move on to discuss the man's evident assholeism.

356 jamgarr  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:37:26pm

re: #341 DrNaughty

Leftists do always have this "lean and hungry look'... and tend to be nasty..

Large people, on the other hand, tend to be much more pleasant to be around..

It's all the Ramen noodles.

357 The False God  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:37:30pm

re: #342 Charles

I think you're right, but I am still unnerved by the fact that he doesn't just categorically deny that he signed it. When a politician refuses to be black and white about something, you know there's a ton of gray that they're trying to keep behind the curtain.

And Zombie's comments don't exactly make me feel good, either.

358 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:37:31pm

re: #354 noshariaincanada

not to be a pain, but are you saying that if it is not on the web then it does not exist, and further that if you cannot find it on the web then it *surely* cannot exist?

The burden of evidence is on the accuser.

359 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:37:58pm

re: #343 JamesTKirk

They're all online. I stopped reading WaPo and WashTimes years ago.


It's a generational thing. The wife and I have a newsprint fetish.

360 Formercorpsman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:38:08pm

re: #271 Charles

Not to be contrary Charles, but I recall getting home from work on 09/11/2001, and watching video plastered on every station of colliding with the towers.

I would be curious to know, who these folks were weeks after 911 thinking it was a bombing.

361 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:38:24pm

re: #354 noshariaincanada

not to be a pain, but are you saying that if it is not on the web then it does not exist, and further that if you cannot find it on the web then it *surely* cannot exist?

Feel free to ignore what I say. What do I know about searching the web?

362 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:38:26pm

re: #327 MandyManners

It is a defense, but as Charles indicated, there is a lot more to U.K. libel law than one would think. See for example, libel tourism.

363 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:38:59pm

re: #347 OldLineTexan
I've got a laptop. Quietest place in the house.

364 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:39:01pm

re: #293 zombie

You are tying his position to something someone else said. This is like watching a monkey flinging poo hoping something sticks.

365 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:39:06pm

OK, gotta go -- family beckons.

No offense to anyone -- and I mean that.

366 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:39:10pm

re: #327 MandyManners

History of the World: Part I is on. I'm gonna' slack off.

It's good to be the King! Pull!

367 jamgarr  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:39:12pm

I thought this used to be the Home of the 48 Hour Rule

368 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:39:13pm

re: #321 JamesTKirk

And she somehow managed to blame that on racism.

Rangel Plays Race Card, Says Obamacare The Victim

A major newspaper is calling for his resignation as chairman of the committee that writes tax laws.

And then there's this: The 79-year-old is under fire for comments he made about race and President Barack Obama.

First, Gov. David Paterson did it. Now, Rep. Rangel is doing it as an ethics probe heats up.

The "it" is playing the race card. Rangel said "bias" and "prejudice" are fueling opposition to health care reform.

Already under fire for a wide range of ethical questions, Rangel played the race card in a health care forum the other night, saying racial bias against President Obama is behind opposition to health care reform.

"Some Americans have not gotten over the fact that Obama is President of the United States. They go to sleep wondering, 'how did this happen?'"

Rangel also likened the fight to provide health care for the uninsured to the fight for civil rights.

"Why do black people have to bargain for what is theirs? Why do we have to wait for the right to vote? Why can't we get what God has given us? And that is the right to live as human beings and not negotiate with white southerners and not court the votes. Just do the right thing," Rangel said.

/racism seems to be reason for most things lately

369 pingemi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:39:32pm

Charles I like and respect you but the parsing of the statement is consistent with pols ducking an embarrassing revelation. I think Zombie is spot on concerning this.

In his previous capacity and in the radical circles that he ran with Trutherism is not an odd thing.

I understand that you don't trust the Truthers as a source and that is logical and I also understand that you don't trust and care for Jones' critics such as Beck but your absolutest position on this doesn't seem logical.

For example I believe Ron Paul is a nut and his absolutest position on the wars is foolish, but that doesn't mean his statements on excessive government spending are wrong, it just that his solutions are extreme and nuts. The idea that "Ron Paul is a nut" and "the government spends too much money" are not mutually exclusive.

The BNP for example is a bunch of racists and you have been right to go after them, but that doesn't mean that Radical Islam is not a threat, it just means that their solution is almost as bad as the problem. The statements: "BNP are a bunch of racists" and "Radical Islam is a danger to civilized society" are not mutually exclusive.

Likewise the statements: "Glenn Beck is not an example of excellence in broadcasting", "9/11 Truthers are not to be trusted", and " Van Jones is at best a "former" truther." are not mutually exclusive either.

I suspect that Jones is as trustworthy a source as the truthers.

Remember the phrase "anti-anti-communists." as Jay Nordlinger put it:

During the Cold War, we used to speak of anti-anti-Communists. These were people (on the left) who were not exactly pro-Communist. But they so hated the anti-Communists, they were . . . well, anti-anti-Communists — the best, the fairest name for them.

Today, there are anti-anti-Islamofascists. They are not on the Islamofascist side in the War on Terror. But they hate those who are fighting, or attempting to fight, the Islamofascists more than they could ever hate the Islamofascists. They are anti-anti-Islamofascists.

The similarities between yesterday’s anti-anti-Communists and today’s anti-anti-Islamofascists would make a very good essay — perhaps by David Pryce-Jones or Norman Podhoretz. Of course, many of today’s anti-anti-Islamofascists were yesterday’s anti-anti-Communists — I mean, the same people, in the flesh.

And it’s all embodied in a publication such as The New York Review of Books.

It's an easy trap to fall into. You may have legitimate beefs with Jones critics but as Zombie notes his past profile and his weasel answers fit both the profile for a truthers and for a pol trying to duck an issue to save his job.

If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt that's fine, but his opponents not being clean doesn't make him trustworthy.

370 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:39:49pm

re: #322 unrealizedviewpoint

Hillary has no option but to resign and run. She has to be President! To win, she will drag his policies stinking through the streets. Obama's got no chance even if he wins the nomination. She will destroy him.

* * * *
Is that why Hillary met with HOnduras' Chavez clone, the de-throned Zelaya, in Washington today?

Today the US cut off $200 million in aid to Honduras, to support the pro-communist Zelaya friend of Chavez.

371 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:39:58pm

re: #332 Coracle

How can you say factually incorrect? Based on what?, The kid on the radio
said that he was there & he called 911 & took the finger tip to the hospital.
The LA Times actually said that the Move On guy lost his finger, clearly not true.
The kid said that he was there. Did he make it up, maybe , but I doubt it.
Where did you get your account?

372 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:39:58pm

Time for me to go. In bed. G'nite all.

373 Formercorpsman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:40:24pm

re: #360 Formercorpsman

jets colliding with towers

374 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:40:36pm
re: #368 Killian Bundy

Didn't Rangel say a few years back that Tax Cut was code for racist?

375 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:40:37pm

re: #365 zombie

OK, gotta go -- family beckons.

No offense to anyone -- and I mean that.

Be safe.

376 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:40:39pm

re: #369 pingemi

Go ahead. Show me the evidence.

377 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:40:51pm

re: #373 Formercorpsman

jets colliding with towers

And the Pentagon. Don't forget the Pentagon.

378 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:41:28pm

re: #356 jamgarr

It's all the Ramen noodles.

No, it's the vegetarian diet and our extremely active sex lives.

379 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:41:41pm

re: #354 noshariaincanada

not to be a pain, but are you saying that if it is not on the web then it does not exist, and further that if you cannot find it on the web then it *surely* cannot exist?

I took it to mean that if you can't provide supporting evidence for your assertion then it can't be something that he will believe in.

380 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:41:49pm

re: #369 pingemi

And I noticed that you snuck in some support for the BNP.

381 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:42:03pm

re: #371 opnion

How can you say factually incorrect? Based on what?, The kid on the radio
said that he was there & he called 911 & took the finger tip to the hospital.
The LA Times actually said that the Move On guy lost his finger, clearly not true.
The kid said that he was there. Did he make it up, maybe , but I doubt it.
Where did you get your account?

Read the link in my post. Rice himself told the police he threw the first punch.

382 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:42:09pm

re: #379 John Neverbend

I took it to mean that if you can't provide supporting evidence for your assertion then it can't be something that he will believe in.

Lack of evidence is not evidence.

383 jamgarr  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:42:17pm

re: #378 iceweasel

No, it's the vegetarian diet and our extremely active sex lives.


I stand corrected. Gotta get that protein somewhere.

384 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:42:21pm

re: #374 kansas

[Video]Didn't Rangel say a few years back that Tax Cut was code for racist?

Ignore the video, I was watching the Van Jones video again with the new knowledge of what Lawrence Summers had said.

385 Formercorpsman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:42:29pm

re: #377 JamesTKirk

I understand, and essentially include that & Pennsylvania without saying so.

386 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:42:48pm

re: #377 JamesTKirk

And the Pentagon. Don't forget the Pentagon.

And the tape of Bin Ladin laughing about it. Don't forget that.

387 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:43:17pm

re: #382 JamesTKirk

Lack of evidence is not evidence.

We went though that in 2003/2004 with the WMD debate and why we couldn't find any in Iraq once we cleaned Saddam out...

388 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:43:38pm

re: #386 experiencedtraveller

And the tape of Bin Ladin laughing about it. Don't forget that.

And Michael Moore complaining that the wrong Americans were killed.

389 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:43:49pm

re: #339 Slumbering Behemoth

Let me see if I am reading you correctly. Is the young guy saying that the "biter" grabbed the "puncher" first?

I've been reading stuff that says in the "puncher's" tv interview, the "puncher" admitted to being at fault.

All I heard is the kids account on the radio, I have not heard another thing.
If the puncher claims guilt, that is another thing, but there was quite an age & size disparity.

390 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:43:56pm

re: #382 JamesTKirk

Lack of evidence is not evidence.

I wish I had said that Oscar.

391 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:43:58pm

re: #370 alegrias

* * * *
Is that why Hillary met with HOnduras' Chavez clone, the de-throned Zelaya, in Washington today?

Today the US cut off $200 million in aid to Honduras, to support the pro-communist Zelaya friend of Chavez.

The Admin. has sliced up the world. There are so few parts of this world Obama permits Hillary to operate in. What's she to do? She has orders. He is the President.

392 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:06pm

re: #371 opnion

How can you say factually incorrect? Based on what?

Based on the article he linked in his post, apparently.

Scott Bush, 43, of Thousand Oaks said he was standing with Rice in the group opposed to healthcare reform when the man walked over from the Moveon.org group. Bush said the man asked the group if it supported a public health insurer option, and members responded “no.” The man then singled out Rice and asked him why, according to Bush. When Rice responded that he didn’t want the government involved in anything, the man moved toward Rice and yelled, “You’re an idiot,” Bush said.

Bush said Rice then hit the man in a defensive move. The man then pulled Rice into the street, according to Bush.

Seems to me the young guy calling into the radio show you cite might be remembering it incorrectly.

393 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:11pm

re: #388 JamesTKirk

And Michael Moore complaining that the wrong Americans were killed.

I can't help but notice he's been very much off the stage recently

394 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:28pm

re: #335 lawhawk

Having been in NYC and Lower Manhattan on 9/11 - and walked through the dust cloud on my walk to walking over the Manhattan Bridge in to Brooklyn, and then following the news to find out if anyone I knew happened to have been murdered in the attacks, the claim that it was a bombing is ... in a word...

preposterous. (well, that's all I'll say about it without going [deleted])

I saw the videos of the plane hits. I saw the collapses. No bombs there - it was all about the jihadis hijacking the planes and flinging them into skyscrapers to incinerate and obliterate tens of thousands of people. We were lucky as only about 3,000 people were murdered. Only.

I do recall reports of bombs in regards for the Pentagon attack, but even that nonsense was demolished with the parking lot video showing the plane slamming into the side of the Pentagon. There were even reports of the State Dept being hit with a bomb, but that turned to be a false rumor.

Where the 9/11 bomb theories have truly taken hold is on the collapse of 7WTC, which came down later in the day on 9/11/01, and there were reports of the building being pulled, but that's because the FDNY was pulling their remaining firefighters away from the building since it was showing signs of collapse after taking serious damage from the collapsing Twin Towers.

In fact, for a week or more, it was thought that other buildings might come down because of the damage sustained.

But the troofers take any discrete statement and turn it into part of the conspiracy.

Did the Troofers add his name to the list? Plausible.
Did Van sign it but now regret it? More likely.
Did Van get caught in Troofer-ville and now realize that he's got to throw someone under the bus? Looking likely.

[deleted]

WTC 7 had a 30,000 gallon diesel tank in it for emergency generator use. It lit up. From that time forward, the building was doomed. Diesel burns slow, but it burns damn hot. Shockingly enough, it will make steel lose its structural strength and buckle.

///Inside job!!///

395 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:39pm

re: #297 TheMatrix31

With zero evidence. No wonder this country is in the shape it's in.

396 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:41pm

re: #393 DrNaughty

I can't help but notice he's been very much off the stage recently

It's harder and harder to find a stage that will support him.

397 DeliLama  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:42pm

So Charles is staking out a position in that empty no-man's land we used to call "truth" or "reality", words that have long since lost their meaning. A place of intense skepticism and almost religious objectivity. Something even journalists have long since discarded. I suspect it will be a lonely place for a long time. Vaya con Dios.

398 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:51pm

re: #387 DrNaughty

We went though that in 2003/2004 with the WMD debate and why we couldn't find any in Iraq once we cleaned Saddam out...

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. - Carl Sagan.

399 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:51pm

re: #389 opnion

I told you exactly that in my post, and included a link to the news story in which he said it. I didn't think your reading skills were in question.

400 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:56pm

It doesn't matter if he signed that statement or not. What I am afraid of is what he believes in NOW. This is guy is consistently leftist and his vision of the world scares the crap out of me. Redistribution of wealth, anti-capitalist, statist, and a firm believe that only a benevolent government can deliver prosperity from above. I hope he fails at his job, just like I hope his boss does too.

401 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:58pm
402 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:45:35pm

re: #397 DeliLama

So Charles is staking out a position in that empty no-man's land we used to call "truth" or "reality", words that have long since lost their meaning. A place of intense skepticism and almost religious objectivity. Something even journalists have long since discarded. I suspect it will be a lonely place for a long time. Vaya con Dios.

Perception is the reality...

403 rain of lead  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:46:01pm

things that make you go ...aww crap!
health care reform means more power for the IRSThe Democrats' plan would require all Americans to have "acceptable" insurance coverage (the legislation includes long and complex definitions of "acceptable") and would designate the IRS as the agency charged with enforcing that requirement. On your yearly 1040 tax return, you would be required to attest that you have "acceptable" coverage. Of course, you might be lying, or simply confused about whether or not you are covered, so the IRS would need a way to check your claim for accuracy. Under current plans, insurers would be required to submit to the IRS something like the 1099 form in which taxpayers report outside income. The IRS would then check the information it receives from the insurers against what you have submitted on your tax form.

If it all matches up, you're fine. If it doesn't, you will hear from the IRS. And if you don't have "acceptable" coverage, you will be subject to substantial fines — fines that will be administered by the IRS.


read the whole...aw you know

404 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:46:07pm

re: #400 Desert Dog

It doesn't matter if he signed that statement or not. What I am afraid of is what he believes in NOW. This is guy is consistently leftist and his vision of the world scares the crap out of me. Redistribution of wealth, anti-capitalist, statist, and a firm believe that only a benevolent government can deliver prosperity from above. I hope he fails at his job, just like I hope his boss does too.

Glenn Beck is lying to you. And you don't care.

405 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:46:26pm
406 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:46:49pm

re: #404 Charles

Glenn Beck is lying to you. And you don't care.

What makes you think I listen to Glenn Beck? The only time I have seen him is on the clips loaded here.

407 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:47:08pm

re: #389 opnion

All I heard is the kids account on the radio, I have not heard another thing.
If the puncher claims guilt, that is another thing, but there was quite an age & size disparity.

There seems to be an age disparity, but definitely not much a size disparity.

I don't think that kid is a reliable source.

408 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:47:16pm

So he's not a truther, he's just a former Communist who's recently converted to "Green-Capitalism".

I feel much better about him now.

409 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:47:20pm

re: #376 Charles

Go ahead. Show me the evidence.

Heh. From someone who is obviously conjecturing. Good luck. He just *feels* its real. So it must be.

If it fits your agenda, logic goes out the window.

410 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:47:33pm

re: #406 Desert Dog

What makes you think I listen to Glenn Beck? The only time I have seen him is on the clips loaded here.

I mostly avoid even those.

//No really. I'm off to bed.

411 The False God  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:47:35pm

re: #380 Charles

He wasn't supporting them. He called them a bunch of racists. His point is that BNP knuckledraggers being anti-Islamic doesn't mean that there isn't a serious threat from extremist Islam. Just because X is bad and opposes Y, doesn't mean that Y is good.

Both are bad apples.

412 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:48:00pm

re: #405 houstonmike

The nuts in this case are the ones calling others troofers with ZERO proof.

413 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:48:28pm

OT

Michael Jackson's getting buried in the Forest Lawn Memorial Park right now in California. Remember he died June 25 and Charles Johnson was on that story.

414 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:48:53pm

re: #413 alegrias

OT

Michael Jackson's getting buried in the Forest Lawn Memorial Park right now in California. Remember he died June 25 and Charles Johnson was on that story.

You mean he's still dead?

415 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:49:15pm

I believe Charles- who is the only person here with any real credibility. If he says he hasn't found a link to Van Jones and trooferism- I believe him.

416 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:49:30pm

re: #414 Coracle

You mean he's still dead?

His nose, thank god, is still alive though

417 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:49:30pm

re: #412 Sharmuta

The nuts in this case are the ones calling others troofers with ZERO proof.

Does that make them proofers?

418 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:49:31pm

China's national flag to go up in White House on Sept 20

The national flag of the People's Republic of China (PRC) will be hoisted at the South Lawn of the White House in Washington on September 20, media reported Sunday.

Chinese associations in the United States had applied to hold a ceremony in front of the US President’s residence to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the founding of PRC.

/lovely, too bad the USSR isn't still around

419 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:49:38pm

re: #392 Slumbering Behemoth

Seems to me the young guy calling into the radio show you cite might be remembering it incorrectly.

Certainly possible, but the kid said that the Move On guy was acting very agressive & got in his face like a baseball manager to an umpire.
By law that can be considered an assault, you do not need battery.
If he pulled the old guy into the street , then you have battery.
Hard to tell.

420 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:49:40pm

re: #239 Slumbering Behemoth

The guy lost his finger in the process of punching the other guy in the mouth. The puncher inserted his own finger into the punchee's mouth. Tough shit, I say.

Tough shit?

So the puncher deserved it? He deserved harassment too?
Why did the pussy finger-biter run off?

re: #239 Slumbering Behemoth

The guy lost his finger in the process of punching the other guy in the mouth. The puncher inserted his own finger into the punchee's mouth. Tough shit, I say.

Tough shit?
So the puncher deserved it? He deserved harassment too?
Why did pussy finger biter run off?

Remember when Mike Tyson bit his opponent's ear off during a fight? Was that a "tough shit" moment too?

421 pingemi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:49:52pm

Another good test would be to see if he decided to sue for defamation for his name being on such a list.

I would think that this would certainly be a matter of defamation.

But I suspect the next few days will see everything flow out one way or the other.

The bottom line is the internet will remember you. Of course if this is a fake document then Charles is just the chap to establish it as Mr. Rather right remember.

422 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:49:53pm

Good evening.

The market rose fractionally today after 4 down days.

Another Fed Chief runs his mouth:


Dallas Fed chief sees 'deflationary risk' as pre-eminent
Fisher sees 'post-traumatic slack syndrome' affecting businesses in near term


Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas President Richard Fisher said late Thursday that he anticipates businesses will continue to keep a tight rein on spending in the near future, as "markets are still a long way from having normalized."

In remarks prepared for a speech at the University of California, Santa Barbara, Fisher said that for the immediate future, "the risk to price stability is a deflationary risk, not an inflationary one," placing himself on the side of those policymakers who are still more worried about growth than the risk the Fed's ultra-loose money policies will result in heated inflation.

Fisher said that based on a survey of CEOs at key companies, he believes the private sector is currently grappling with excess capacity, and "suffering from shock induced by the trauma of the crisis." He termed the condition "post-traumatic slack syndrome."

That will result in a prolonged period of tight budgets as companies seek to preserve their bottom lines, Fisher said.

He added: "My guess is it will be a long time before we see growth strong enough and sustained enough to make an appreciable dent in excess capacity."


I love it. A different Fed Chief was talking about how the Fed would need to quickly raise rates to stem jumping inflation once the destruction of jobs stops.

Ben Bernanke had better hold a team meeting real quick and remind them who is boss. This mixed signals stuff is gong to send a clear message to the market that the Fed is a Chinese fire drill.

Ben, for the love of God, lay the law down to your subordinates.

423 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:50:26pm

re: #408 Ringo the Gringo

So he's not a truther, he's just a former Communist who's recently converted to "Green-Capitalism".

I feel much better about him now.

Yeah, isn't it a comforting feeling?

424 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:50:46pm

re: #416 Desert Dog

His nose, thank god, is still alive though

Can we clone it?

425 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:50:47pm

re: #406 Desert Dog

What makes you think I listen to Glenn Beck? The only time I have seen him is on the clips loaded here.

I have seen him once outside of here.

426 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:50:47pm

re: #420 FrogMarch

oops - double post. wee-rod!

427 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:50:48pm

re: #419 opnion

Certainly possible, but the kid said that the Move On guy was acting very agressive & got in his face like a baseball manager to an umpire.
By law that can be considered an assault, you do not need battery.
If he pulled the old guy into the street , then you have battery.
Hard to tell.

It is indeed hard to tell if you ignore what Rice himself said about the incident.

428 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:51:01pm

re: #418 Killian Bundy

China's national flag to go up in White House on Sept 20

/lovely, too bad the USSR isn't still around

Celebrating the birth of the nation that killed how many Americans in Korea?

429 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:51:03pm

re: #408 Ringo the Gringo

So he's not a truther, he's just a former Communist who's recently converted to "Green-Capitalism".

I feel much better about him now.

I'm not supporting Van Jones.

I don't know how many times I have to post that.

But there are LIES being circulated about him. Argue with his positions, denounce him for his radical leftist background, all of that is fair.

But the non-stop lying makes me sick.

430 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:51:07pm

re: #411 The False God

He wasn't supporting them. He called them a bunch of racists. His point is that BNP knuckledraggers being anti-Islamic doesn't mean that there isn't a serious threat from extremist Islam. Just because X is bad and opposes Y, doesn't mean that Y is good.

Both are bad apples.

Lie down with dogs...

431 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:51:50pm

re: #417 JamesTKirk

I'm shocked that people at this blog are accepting Van Jones is a troofer without any facts being presented. This is supposed to be a fact checking site, and folks are willing to buy into bullshit because it fits their preconceived ideas. That's not anti-idiotarianism, at least in my mind.

432 noshariaincanada  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:51:58pm

re: #361 Charles

Feel free to ignore what I say. What do I know about searching the web?

I am not ignoring what you're sayin but now you are falling into the logical fallacy of appealing to authority (you being the authority -on web searching in this case.)

I do not automatically believe something just because I can find supporting evidence for it on the interwebs, nor do I believe the absence of information on the web on a particular matter means that it is not possible/plausible.

Consider alternative sources, is all I'm saying.

Maybe talk to Zombie, offline?

433 livefreeor die  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:52:02pm

re: #424 John Neverbend

Can we clone it?

That would solve the world's problems-hundreds of Michael Jacksons running around.

434 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:52:09pm

re: #414 Coracle

You mean he's still dead?

* * * *
Well, the good news Michael Jackson's estate is now profitable again, so they will be able to pay back California for all the costs his first funeral incurred.

Poor California. So many fires recently. So much red ink.

435 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:52:32pm

re: #431 Sharmuta

I'm shocked that people at this blog are accepting Van Jones is a troofer without any facts being presented. This is supposed to be a fact checking site, and folks are willing to buy into bullshit because it fits their preconceived ideas. That's not anti-idiotarianism, at least in my mind.

It's the culmination of all of the statements he's made

436 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:52:42pm

re: #413 alegrias

Michael Jackson's getting buried in the Forest Lawn Memorial Park right now in California. Remember he died June 25 and Charles Johnson was on that story.

I wonder where his nose is.

437 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:52:44pm

re: #420 FrogMarch

Tough shit?
So the puncher deserved it? He deserved harassment too?
Why did pussy finger biter run off?

Remember when Mike Tyson bit his opponent's ear off during a fight? Was that a "tough shit" moment too?

If you sock a guy in the face just because he calls you an idiot, then yeah, tough shit. Has nothing to do with Tyson.

And as I said before, the puncher put his finger into the biter's mouth, while punching him. So yeah, tough shit.

438 DeliLama  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:52:44pm

re: #402 DrNaughty

Perception is the reality...


What's that saying, truth is the first casualty of war? I think when you have sizeable internal conflicts like what we've been increasingly seeing these years, the truth is a rare comodity that no one wants. The high road is a goat path. しょうが無い, it can't be helped.

439 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:52:51pm

"Bush Lied"
"Van Jones is a Truther."

Nasty world politics.

440 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:52:56pm

re: #399 Coracle

I told you exactly that in my post, and included a link to the news story in which he said it. I didn't think your reading skills were in question.

Oh no, did I gloss over your profound post? Get over yourself.

441 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:53:12pm

re: #433 livefreeor die

That would solve the world's problems-hundreds of Michael Jacksons running around.

I was thinking of just one clone, like in Woody Allen's "Sleeper".

442 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:53:16pm

re: #80 Charles

There's no question that Troofers are batshit crazy, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Van Jones has not flat-out denied signing that statement, and that fact is troubling to me, and apparently also to others here. I see it as quite possible that a political activist like Jones would have signed such a statement, not necessarily because he believes the Troofer nonsense, but because of the political mischief-making potential.

And of course the Troofers are using Jones' (alleged) signature to make mischief, because that's what they do.

But Jones is using weasel words, and seems to carefully avoiding a flat-out denial that he signed the document, perhaps because he knows that the signature might be verifiable.

If he really wanted to defuse this issue, he could say, "Yeah, I signed it. I never really believed in that BS, but I wanted to figuratively give the finger to G.W. Bush, so I signed it. That's ancient history, I'm older and wiser now."

443 cronus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:53:18pm

@jaketapper a source says Jones didn't carefully review the petition before agreeing to add his name.

444 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:53:24pm

re: #435 DrNaughty

It's the culmination of all of the statements he's made

Where his statements that 9/11 was an inside job?

445 VioletTiger  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:53:26pm

I remember when Obama was putting together his administration and his transition team there was a lot of talk about the long list of questions people had to answer. Obama team digs deep.
Did they lose their shovels? He may not be a truther but there are plenty of other things out there that should have been examined a bit deeper.

I would like to hear him interviewed and have a chance to answer questions about his background and beliefs. That would be the quickest way to set things straight (for the sane people, that is).

446 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:53:39pm

re: #436 3 wood

I wonder where his nose is.

Actually there was talk he was to be buried with out his brain. Anyone have knowledge?

447 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:53:45pm

re: #431 Sharmuta

I'm shocked that people at this blog are accepting Van Jones is a troofer without any facts being presented. This is supposed to be a fact checking site, and folks are willing to buy into bullshit because it fits their preconceived ideas. That's not anti-idiotarianism, at least in my mind.

Agenda, agenda, agenda...

Easier than seeking the truth.

ODS running rampant. Glad to see it's so much milder than BDS...

448 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:54:25pm

re: #427 Coracle

It is indeed hard to tell if you ignore what Rice himself said about the incident.

Look let me try this again, Assault does not need the element of battery.
Get it?

449 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:54:34pm

re: #437 Slumbering Behemoth

If you sock a guy in the face just because he calls you an idiot, then yeah, tough shit. Has nothing to do with Tyson.

And as I said before, the puncher put his finger into the biter's mouth, while punching him. So yeah, tough shit.

I agree. The guy admitted outright that he punched the pro-Obama guy TWICE, with no physical provocation. I have no sympathy at all for him.

450 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:55:02pm

re: #432 noshariaincanada

I am not ignoring what you're sayin but now you are falling into the logical fallacy of appealing to authority (you being the authority -on web searching in this case.)

I do not automatically believe something just because I can find supporting evidence for it on the interwebs, nor do I believe the absence of information on the web on a particular matter means that it is not possible/plausible.

Consider alternative sources, is all I'm saying.

Maybe talk to Zombie, offline?

Interwebs? Hmmm...

451 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:55:05pm

re: #415 Sharmuta

I believe Charles- who is the only person here with any real credibility. If he says he hasn't found a link to Van Jones and trooferism- I believe him.

I believe him too. But remember, sometimes people, both left and right, sign on to things that they don't necessarily believe. At anti-war demonstrations radical organizations and conspiracy groups walk around gathering signatures and people sign without thinking. If your group's petition was sufficiently anti-Bush just about anyone might sign it.

452 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:55:39pm

re: #52 zombie

The Truthers have not been proven to be lying yet. Yes, they're Truthers, and completely demented as a result, but he signed on to their petition, and doesn't deny that he signed on to their petition, even now.

At the time, truthers were mostly of the LIHOP persuasion. They wanted to know why the government ignored the warnings from earlier in the summer (a member here actually trotted out that talking point on a different thread this morning). Because of the hatred for Bush from the left and much of the media, they tried to turn a historical briefing with information collected from the 90's to the summer of 2001 into an X marks the spot warning. We now know that a federal intelligence report issued in 1999 suggested that terrorists might use planes to attack the capitol and pentagon (apparently they read Tom Clancy) but there was never any hard evidence corroborated by all intelligence agencies pointing to a specific plot during a specific time frame. The media were just as hysterical as the truthers and they helped develop the movement.

453 J.S.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:56:05pm

re: #167 Killian Bundy

Reuters has noted that there's a book soon to be published (due out in mid Sept.), titled: ""Shadow Government: What Obama Doesn't Want You To Know About His Czars" link to the Reuters note here.

454 The False God  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:56:06pm

re: #430 austin_blue

I don't follow. Your logic is that somehow denouncing both the BNP and extremist Islam makes him... in support of the BNP?

His entire point is logically sound and seems to be overlooked. Being opposed to radical Islam does NOT make you a part of the BNP, assorted other European racist groups, American white supremacists, or what have you, just because they also oppose radical Islam.

Just because bad people try to co-op your viewpoint doesn't mean that you agree with all of theirs. I still maintain that radical Islam, which promotes violence and Islamic supremacy, is as much of a threat as any other racist supremacy groups. They should all be opposed with every fiber of our bodies. I refuse your assertion that attempts to fight radical Islam is giving aid to white supremacists.

You might as well roll over and die if you operate under that logic, because everything you do in life helps some bad people, somewhere, in some way. You still have to keep fighting for the right principle in the right way.

455 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:56:07pm

re: #429 Charles

I'm not supporting Van Jones.

I don't know how many times I have to post that.

But there are LIES being circulated about him. Argue with his positions, denounce him for his radical leftist background, all of that is fair.

But the non-stop lying makes me sick.

You're right...I agree.

456 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:56:07pm

re: #451 Ringo the Gringo

I've never 'hand signed' a petition in my life.

457 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:56:09pm

re: #437 Slumbering Behemoth

If you sock a guy in the face just because he calls you an idiot, then yeah, tough shit. Has nothing to do with Tyson.

And as I said before, the puncher put his finger into the biter's mouth, while punching him. So yeah, tough shit.

It takes a lot to bite off a digit. Punching is a totally different ball game.
If some punk leftist harassed me, I might think about defending myself.
Biting a finger off is the act of a coward.

458 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:56:14pm

re: #451 Ringo the Gringo

I believe him too. But remember, sometimes people, both left and right, sign on to things that they don't necessarily believe. At anti-war demonstrations radical organizations and conspiracy groups walk around gathering signatures and people sign without thinking. If your group's petition was sufficiently anti-Bush just about anyone might sign it.

Usually there is a good looking woman that is the root cause for signing

459 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:56:43pm

After STORM disbanded, a collective summation entitled Reclaiming Revolution: History, Summation, and Lessons from the Work of Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement (STORM) was written by former STORM members, collectively endorsed by a majority of the organization's former membership and was published in Spring 2004.

Van Jones and STORM

When he graduated law school, Jones gave up plans to take a job in Washington, D.C., and moved to San Francisco instead.[11] He got involved with Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement (STORM), a group explicitly committed to revolutionary Marxist politics[12] whose points of unity were revolutionary democracy, revolutionary feminism, revolutionary internationalism, the central role of the working class, urban Marxism, and Third World Communism.[13] While with STORM, Jones actively began protesting "alleged police brutality".[11]


Some source say Jones was a founder.

PDF of Reclaiming Revolution: History, Summation, and Lessons from the Work of Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement (STORM)

Go to page 28 of the document to see STORM's reaction to 9/11.
It's protected and I can't copy it, it's a recap of a link zombie posted earlier.
9-11 ATTACKS: STORM's FOUR MAIN POINTS IN RESPONSE TO THE BOMBINGS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER & THE U.S. PENTAGON

He has or had extreme leftist even Marxist view points. The 9/11 statements are akin to ANSWER.

460 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:56:44pm

re: #418 Killian Bundy

China's national flag to go up in White House on Sept 20

/lovely, too bad the USSR isn't still around

The Birch Society is pushing that story too.
/Just sayin'

461 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:57:10pm

re: #456 unrealizedviewpoint

I've never 'hand signed' a petition in my life.

I did in high school to petition the principal to let us wear blue jeans to class...

462 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:57:26pm

re: #436 3 wood

I wonder where his nose is.

In one of these:

Image: medical_waste_bag_2.jpg

463 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:57:43pm

re: #432 noshariaincanada

I am not ignoring what you're sayin but now you are falling into the logical fallacy of appealing to authority (you being the authority -on web searching in this case.)

I do not automatically believe something just because I can find supporting evidence for it on the interwebs, nor do I believe the absence of information on the web on a particular matter means that it is not possible/plausible.

Consider alternative sources, is all I'm saying.

Maybe talk to Zombie, offline?

Right. Why not "have the discussion". Bullshit beloved by crackpots everywhere, whether it's nirthers, creationists, or the new conspiracy du jour.

Consider 'alternative sources'. Like troofers.

Charles is falling into the 'logical fallacy' of appealing to reason and evidence.
You, on the other hand, are exhibiting signs of what we in the biz like to call 'confirmation bias'. You've settled on a certain conclusion and you'll weight all the evidence to get you there, while disregarding the evidence that disproves your hypothesis.

464 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:57:46pm

re: #423 TheMatrix31

Yeah, isn't it a comforting feeling?

* * *
Communist countries were far more polluted than our country.
They burned brown coal and invested little in sanitation, plumbing, environmental quality.

Anyone who is still a communist and claims to hate capitalism, which is actually GREENER than communism, doesn't give me good feelings about ANYTHING.

465 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:57:50pm

Did some poking around on Internet Archive and didn't find anything where he references would could be described as trutherism. There's a couple of pieces where he mentions Bush, the elections, the war, post-9/11 environment, etc. Both pieces can be found here and here. Please note that the first link is to a PDF. The second is an article he wrote which includes a short list of his fears of the second term of the Bush administration -- none of which came to fruition.

466 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:57:56pm

re: #418 Killian Bundy

China's national flag to go up in White House on Sept 20

/lovely, too bad the USSR isn't still around

Not the first time a foreign flag was flown there, here's just one other from 1920:

flag.

467 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:58:06pm

Quite frankly, whether or not this guy Van Jones is a troofer (which I doubt based only on this petition thing) is the least of my concerns about the guy. His avowed communism is all I needed to know.

468 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:58:06pm

re: #448 opnion

Look let me try this again, Assault does not need the element of battery.
Get it?

Back in the cannibal thread, someone posted the legal definition of assault in CA. It required intent to do physical harm. Battery is success at doing physical harm. Rice did assault and battery. Before that, biter did neither. Got it.

469 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:58:48pm

re: #451 Ringo the Gringo

I believe him too. But remember, sometimes people, both left and right, sign on to things that they don't necessarily believe. At anti-war demonstrations radical organizations and conspiracy groups walk around gathering signatures and people sign without thinking. If your group's petition was sufficiently anti-Bush just about anyone might sign it.

That's all very true. I'm just in shock at the moment to see fact checking mean so little to some people.

470 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:59:17pm

re: #467 3 wood

Quite frankly, whether or not this guy Van Jones is a troofer (which I doubt based only on this petition thing) is the least of my concerns about the guy. His avowed communism is all I needed to know.

Life was much simpler during the Cold War...

471 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:59:24pm

I eat you pinkies! I eat them up!
[Link: www.google.com...]

472 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:59:32pm

re: #111 Slumbering Behemoth

Again, if a troofer tells me the sky is blue, you better damn well believe that I'll go outside and check for myself before I ever take a troofer's word on anything.

It would be kind of like taking tax advice from Timothy Geithner.

473 rain of lead  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:59:46pm

re: #422 3 wood
HEre: #403 rain of lead

Y WOOD!
did you see my link at 403

if obama-care goes through, even a little bit, the extra power given to the IRS scares me much more than any trooferisms

474 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:59:58pm

re: #471 Killgore Trout

I eat you pinkies! I eat them up!
[Link: www.google.com...]

Pinkies.. pinkies. rolly polly pinkies...

Pinkies, pinkies, eat them up .. yummm

475 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:00:06pm

re: #467 3 wood

Quite frankly, whether or not this guy Van Jones is a troofer (which I doubt based only on this petition thing) is the least of my concerns about the guy. His avowed communism is all I needed to know.

Exactly. I don't give a damn if he believes the sky is green. Fact of the matter is, he's a fucking admitted Commie and he's DAMN close to Obama, who's not so squeaky-clean himself.

476 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:00:11pm

I'm getting some really extreme hate mail tonight. Apparently I'm a Hugo Chavez supporter now, which comes as quite a surprise.

477 DeliLama  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:00:13pm
a source says Jones did not carefully review the language in the petition before agreeing to add his name.


Sounds like something Congress would do.

478 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:00:13pm

re: #428 DrNaughty

Celebrating the birth of the nation that killed how many Americans in Korea?

* * * *
Fear not,
in protest of murdering Chinese communism,
John McCain's 97 year old mother will hang her Taiwanese flag across the street from the communist Chinese embassy in Washington, DC.

479 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:00:34pm

re: #471 Killgore Trout

Link wuz supposed to be...


/You stink
480 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:00:46pm

re: #434 alegrias

Well, the good news Michael Jackson's estate is now profitable again, so they will be able to pay back California for all the costs his first funeral incurred.

He is clearing $2 million a day now. In his case, dying was a very profitable career move.

481 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:00:48pm

re: #425 opnion

I remember seeing him on HLN when I was channel surfing one day. He doesn't do much for me. I am not a big TV guy. Sponge Bob and Avatar with my 8 year old is more my speed.

482 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:01:04pm

re: #459 jcm

Go to page 28 of the document to see STORM's reaction to 9/11.
It's protected and I can't copy it, it's a recap of a link zombie posted earlier.
9-11 ATTACKS: STORM's FOUR MAIN POINTS IN RESPONSE TO THE BOMBINGS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER & THE U.S. PENTAGON

He has or had extreme leftist even Marxist view points. The 9/11 statements are akin to ANSWER.

I've been reading that history, and it's definitely Marxist boilerplate.
There is no mention in it, however, of the U.S. government bringing down the towers.

483 The False God  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:01:48pm

re: #476 Charles

You should just filter them out and never read them. Reading hate mail means your haters have won, in some way, since you're giving them undue attention. Unless you're just sitting in a chair, drinking Scotch, laughing at them in a deep voice.

484 kcladderman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:02:03pm

re: #463 iceweasel

No i think it is most of us put more faith in what Zombie says than the truthers or Van Jones

485 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:02:35pm

re: #443 cronus

@jaketapper a source says Jones didn't carefully review the petition before agreeing to add his name.

I like Tapper. I believe he's one of the most balanced reporters left in the WH press corps. Having said that, it's disappointing that the first mention of Van Jones by Tapper (or anyone else at ABC) comes on the heels of Jones quasi-denial of Trootherism. It begs the question, why haven't the myriad of other outrageous, racists and crack-pot Van Jones comments - that have actually been captured on video or audio tape - merited any comments from Tapper or his ABC colleagues?

Say what you want about the right-wing nutcase faux-journalists, but at least they're lending a critical eye and voice to an administration that - so far - has been shielded by a very sympathetic and protective press-corps.

486 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:02:50pm

re: #475 TheMatrix31

Fact of the matter is, he's a fucking admitted Commie and he's DAMN close to Obama, who's not so squeaky-clean himself.

It seems to me that there is starting to be a team picture of Marxists in this White House.

487 rain of lead  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:02:54pm

re: #476 Charles

I'm getting some really extreme hate mail tonight. Apparently I'm a Hugo Chavez supporter now, which comes as quite a surprise.

Wow, who knew?

/

488 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:03:06pm

re: #476 Charles

I'm getting some really extreme hate mail tonight. Apparently I'm a Hugo Chavez supporter now, which comes as quite a surprise.

Hey, when you talk to him next, can you ask him for one of those Vergatorio cellphones for me?

Hugo Chavez launches mobile phone with rude name

489 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:03:15pm

re: #418 Killian Bundy

China's national flag to go up in White House on Sept 20

/lovely, too bad the USSR isn't still around

To celebrate the founding of the PRC?

Celebrate?

490 Dahveed  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:03:29pm

re: #459 jcm

FWIW - Van Jones is also a "Free Mumia" activist.

On Friday, January 15, Mumia's lead attorney Leonard Weinglass spoke to over a hundred students in three classes at Oakland High, where students asked detailed questions about the issues of the case, including asking how the police could get away with intimidating witnesses. Later in the day, he spoke to several classes at Castlemont High School, along with police accountability activist Van Jones, and Jeff Mackler from the Bay Area Mobilization to Free Mumia.

491 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:03:31pm

Twelve hate mails so far, all because I posted this article.

492 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:03:31pm

re: #486 3 wood

It seems to me that there is starting to be a team picture of Marxists in this White House.

The head marxist sleeps on the 2nd floor

493 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:03:33pm

re: #482 jaunte

I've been reading that history, and it's definitely Marxist boilerplate.
There is no mention in it, however, of the U.S. government bringing down the towers.

It's all US imperialism and aggression, chickens coming home to roost stuff. But correct no trooferism.

494 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:03:50pm

re: #427 Coracle

It is indeed hard to tell if you ignore what Rice himself said about the incident.


Ya know what, I just went back & read the link.
The old guy said that his personal space was invaded & he thought that he had to defend himself. That is a lot different than he started it.
Google assault.

495 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:03:56pm

re: #480 3 wood

He is clearing $2 million a day now. In his case, dying was a very profitable career move.

"Hi, Ford," said Zaphod, "you speak to the big noise boy?"

Ford waggled his head noncommittally.

"Hotblack? I sort of spoke to him, yeah."

"What'd he say?"

"Well, not a lot really. He's ... er ..."

"Yeah?"

"He's spending a year dead for tax reasons."

496 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:03:58pm
497 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:04:29pm

re: #473 rain of lead

Y WOOD!
did you see my link at 403

if obama-care goes through, even a little bit, the extra power given to the IRS scares me much more than any troofer

Yes, I also posted a few days back sections of HR 3200 that authorizes the IRS to turn over just about anything in your tax returns to the health care staffers that they want to see. Ponder that one for a few minutes.

498 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:04:31pm

re: #484 kcladderman

Charles has no credibility in your mind?

499 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:04:45pm

re: #490 Dahveed

FWIW - Van Jones is also a "Free Mumia" activist.

Can't be a real lefty with a Che, and Free Mumia tee in closet!

500 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:04:48pm

re: #454 The False God

I don't follow. Your logic is that somehow denouncing both the BNP and extremist Islam makes him... in support of the BNP?

His entire point is logically sound and seems to be overlooked. Being opposed to radical Islam does NOT make you a part of the BNP, assorted other European racist groups, American white supremacists, or what have you, just because they also oppose radical Islam.

Just because bad people try to co-op your viewpoint doesn't mean that you agree with all of theirs. I still maintain that radical Islam, which promotes violence and Islamic supremacy, is as much of a threat as any other racist supremacy groups. They should all be opposed with every fiber of our bodies. I refuse your assertion that attempts to fight radical Islam is giving aid to white supremacists.

You might as well roll over and die if you operate under that logic, because everything you do in life helps some bad people, somewhere, in some way. You still have to keep fighting for the right principle in the right way.

Dude, if you want to denounce extremist Islam (specifically Sallafism, an extremist form of which Al Queda embraces), please do so. You have the right of free speech! You can speak your mind!

When you do so, do not mention the BNP, which would be happy if every black and brown person in the UK was dragged out of their home and set afire.

Why is this unclear to you? Make your basic position. It should stand on its merits. Don't continue to flap your cake hole by justifying your position with those of racists and fascists.

That would be...unwise.

501 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:05:06pm

re: #489 Wendya

To celebrate the founding of the PRC?

Celebrate?

Well, that have purchased the USA...so, it's only fitting.

502 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:05:12pm

re: #476 Charles

I'm getting some really extreme hate mail tonight. Apparently I'm a Hugo Chavez supporter now, which comes as quite a surprise.

Hugo Chavez supporter? I think the correct word would be Bolivarian. Again, the hate emailers get it wrong. ;)

503 noshariaincanada  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:05:14pm

re: #484 kcladderman

No i think it is most of us put more faith in what Zombie says than the truthers or Van Jones

uh oh, I see Charles is downdinging support for Zombie's line of reasoning. Beware.

504 Fiery Red XIII  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:05:24pm

re: #457 FrogMarch

It takes a lot to bite off a digit. Punching is a totally different ball game.
If some punk leftist harassed me, I might think about defending myself.
Biting a finger off is the act of a coward.

You know how many 1 punch fatlities have made news in my state over the past couple years? Quite a few for it being 1 punch.

Red

505 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:05:26pm

re: #466 avanti

Not the first time a foreign flag was flown there, here's just one other from 1920:

flag.

That's nice.

/but France isn't aa adversarial communist country with an abominable human rights record

506 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:05:31pm

re: #494 opnion

Ya know what, I just went back & read the link.
The old guy said that his personal space was invaded & he thought that he had to defend himself. That is a lot different than he started it.
Google assault.

How about you look at the first discussion here, instead.

507 pingemi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:05:36pm

#380 Charles I resent the suggestion that I support the BNP or that my statement was support for the BNP Let me quote myself from comment # 369.

The BNP for example is a bunch of racists and you have been right to go after them...

I think that is a pretty clear denunciation of them. I continued:

...but that doesn't mean that Radical Islam is not a threat, it just means that their solution is almost as bad as the problem. The statements: "BNP are a bunch of racists" and "Radical Islam is a danger to civilized society" are not mutually exclusive.

Radical Islam is a danger as you have amply documented over the years that I've been reading you. If you made the statement "Radical Islam is a danger" to the BNP they would agree with it but that doesn't make them any less a bunch of racist fascists. That's not a statement of support for the BNP. that's a simple fact. I was simply illustrating the "anti-anti" example.

I respectfully request that you retract your suggestion that I support the BNP or expressed support for them.

508 rain of lead  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:05:38pm

re: #497 3 wood

shudder,shudder,shudder

509 cronus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:05:56pm

If what ABC's Jake Tapper is reporting is to be believed it looks like WH and Jones MAY be pivoting to the "I didn't know what I was signing" line.

510 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:06:00pm

re: #459 jcm

Here's the pathetic bit:

In March 2002, the sixteen remaining members formally decided to disband STORM as an organization.

We all still believed that revolutionary cadre organizations are necessary for the development of a viable revolutionary movement in this country. But we concluded that STORM could no longer be effective building a revolutionary movement. The baggage of our conflicts within the movement and our lack of a sufficient strategy were too heavy to carry.


Aww.

511 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:06:11pm

re: #476 Charles

I'm getting some really extreme hate mail tonight. Apparently I'm a Hugo Chavez supporter now, which comes as quite a surprise.

* * * *
Sorry to hear that. It's Hillary Clinton who met with Hugo Chavez' Honduran clone (deposed leftist Zelaya) today, here in Washington.

512 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:06:21pm

re: #457 FrogMarch

It takes a lot to bite off a digit. Punching is a totally different ball game.
If some punk leftist harassed me, I might think about defending myself.
Biting a finger off is the act of a coward.

If a stranger punches me without justification, I don't owe him the courtesy of fighting in some manly fashion. If I have the ability to deliver an effective counter punch, or karate chop, or whatever, that's well and good. But if I don't, why should I limit my (legally permissible)options with some stranger who attacks me?

513 jamgarr  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:06:32pm

re: #495 John Neverbend

"Hi, Ford," said Zaphod, "you speak to the big noise boy?"

Ford waggled his head noncommittally.

"Hotblack? I sort of spoke to him, yeah."

"What'd he say?"

"Well, not a lot really. He's ... er ..."

"Yeah?"

"He's spending a year dead for tax reasons."


And now - The Great Zarkon!

514 Fiery Red XIII  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:06:35pm

re: #499 jcm

Can't be a real lefty with a Che, and Free Mumia tee in closet!

I have a "FRY MUMIA" shirt.

Red

515 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:06:47pm

re: #509 cronus

If what ABC's Jake Tapper is reporting is to be believed it looks like WH and Jones MAY be pivoting to the "I didn't know what I was signing" line.

If it's ok for Van Jones, it's good for anyone who signs a loan agreement and can't make the payments...

516 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:06:58pm

re: #460 Killgore Trout

The Birch Society is pushing that story too.
/Just sayin'

/so what?

517 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:07:38pm

re: #480 3 wood

He is clearing $2 million a day now. In his case, dying was a very profitable career move.

* * * *
Wow!
You're one good reporter.
Bet anything the Jacksons are now against Death Taxes now, like Republicans!

518 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:07:49pm

re: #511 alegrias

* * * *
Sorry to hear that. It's Hillary Clinton who met with Hugo Chavez' Honduran clone (deposed leftist Zelaya) today, here in Washington.

Really?

Did that go under the radar?

519 zelnaga  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:08:01pm

Maybe there's another Van Jones who is a truther? If his own personal snail mail and email address were included in the petition, I'd be more inclined to believe he signed it, but I get the impression online petitions like this don't ask for anything at all.

Of course, I don't know what his personal email address is, either. That the email address he used (if he even needed one) was something like vanjones911@gmail.com that wouldn't tell you anything other than that someone - be it this particular Van Jones or not - is using vanjones911@gmail.com.

520 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:08:06pm

re: #468 Coracle

Back in the cannibal thread, someone posted the legal definition of assault in CA. It required intent to do physical harm. Battery is success at doing physical harm. Rice did assault and battery. Before that, biter did neither. Got it.

No ,assault is creating apprehension of physical harm.
It is the ordinary reasonable man standard. Would the ordinary, reasonable man have felt in danger. You can't twist century's of common law.

521 slokat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:08:21pm

Washington Times posted an update?

Is this new info?
just asking since thge post doesn't time stamp the update

A response was provided to reporters Thursday evening. In it, Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement and said he doesn't feel that way today and never has had such thoughts, although the 911Truth group claims to have personally confirmed support from all of their signers.

522 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:08:34pm

Two email flounces so far.

"Delete my account immediately! You've become leftist! Glenn Beck is a genius!"

523 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:08:38pm

re: #510 jaunte

Here's the pathetic bit:


Aww.

Cry me a river.
Build a bridge.
And get over it.

*that to Jones not you jaunte*

16 members! Wow!

524 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:09:02pm

re: #522 Charles

Genius...ROFL.

525 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:09:03pm

re: #521 slokat

And we should believe troofers why?

526 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:09:06pm

re: #446 unrealizedviewpoint

IIRC, the brain was removed for the toxicology tests to determine cause of death. I don't know if he's being burried with it, or not. There were noises of prosecuting the Dr. who administered the drugs.

527 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:09:12pm

re: #522 Charles

Two email flounces so far.

"Delete my account immediately! You've become leftist! Glenn Beck is a genius!

Insure that they get what they wished for.

528 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:09:20pm

re: #509 cronus

If what ABC's Jake Tapper is reporting is to be believed it looks like WH and Jones MAY be pivoting to the "I didn't know what I was signing" line.

If so, he's toast.

I'm setting the over/under on Obama throwing this guy under the bus to Sunday morning.

529 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:09:28pm

re: #523 jcm

I know softball teams that have bigger cadres than that, comrade!

530 kcladderman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:09:51pm

target="_blank">#498 Sharmuta

This has nothing to do with Charles I did not say i don't believe him. I know if he said he looked for proof and did not find it then that is what happened.
But Zombie has credibility in my book also.

531 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:10:03pm

re: #476 Charles

I'm getting some really extreme hate mail tonight. Apparently I'm a Hugo Chavez supporter now, which comes as quite a surprise.

Well, you do allow him to comment on your blog.
///

532 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:10:08pm

re: #523 jcm

Cry me a river.
Build a bridge.
And get over it.

*that to Jones not you jaunte*

16 members! Wow!

The People's Front

533 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:10:13pm

re: #528 3 wood

If so, he's toast.

I'm setting the over/under on Obama throwing this guy under the bus to Sunday morning.

Do you believe Jake Tapper?

534 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:10:27pm

re: #517 alegrias

Bet anything the Jacksons are now against Death Taxes now, like Republicans!

Old Man Jackson charged the City Of Gary Indiana a $5,000 appearance fee for showing up to a tribute for his son.

535 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:10:36pm

re: #521 slokat

Washington Times posted an update?

Is this new info?
just asking since thge post doesn't time stamp the update

I guess he signed it.

536 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:10:46pm

re: #520 opnion

No ,assault is creating apprehension of physical harm.
It is the ordinary reasonable man standard. Would the ordinary, reasonable man have felt in danger. You can't twist century's of common law.

I'm twisting nothing. Hopefully eschew obfuscation won't mind I repost him in full, since opnion is above following my links:

O.K. Here's California's Assault & Battery law.

California law defines assault (sometimes referred to as an "assault and battery") in section 240 of the California Penal Code. An "assault" is an unlawful attempt, coupled with a present ability, to commit a violent injury on another. Simply put, it means performing an act that is likely to result in the application of force to another.

There is no requirement that an assault must actually result in a violent or forceful act upon another, only that you (1) attempted to, and (2) had the ability to do so.

California "simple assault" is a misdemeanor and is typically charged when the accuser didn't suffer any type of significant injury as a result of the offense. A California "aggravated assault" (otherwise known as an "assault with a deadly weapon" or an ADW) will be filed if (1) you used a deadly weapon or other instrument capable of producing serious bodily injury, and/or (2) when the accuser is seriously injured.

*This article primarily focuses on the issues involved with a California "simple assault".

What is the Difference between "Assault" and "Battery"?

Although many people think that "assault and battery" is one crime, "assault" (CPC 240) and "battery" (CPC 242) are actually two different offenses. As Robert Little, one of San Bernardino's top assault defense attorneys puts it, "The easiest way to distinguish the crimes is this.an assault doesn't necessarily involve any actual physical contact -- a battery does. Put another way, an 'assault' is an 'attempted battery', and a 'battery' is a 'completed assault'".

How Do Prosecutors Prove a California "Simple Assault" Under Penal Code 240?

In order to convict you of "simple" or "misdemeanor" assault in California, the prosecuting agency must prove the following three facts (otherwise known as "elements"):


It does require, at minimum, an attempt at physical violence to constitute assault. A successful attempt (actual physical contact) is battery.

537 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:10:55pm

re: #467 3 wood

Quite frankly, whether or not this guy Van Jones is a troofer (which I doubt based only on this petition thing) is the least of my concerns about the guy. His avowed communism is all I needed to know.

he said he "discovered" communism. So did I. It was in Econ 101. Did I take a close look? Sure I did. Any internally logical economic philosophy deserves a look! And communism, in theory, had internal logic. It was when you looked at communism *in practice* that it fell apart. It was always used as a tool for maintaining the status of elites. Total government control. A total fail. So I don't mind people dabbling in communism. It's very attractive until you realize that it is totally impractical in the real world.

I tend to give people the opportunity to grow up. If I was still the little wanker I was at 21, I'd cut me own throat.

538 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:10:56pm

re: #532 Desert Dog

The People's Front

[Video]

ROFL!

539 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:11:30pm

re: #534 3 wood

Old Man Jackson charged the City Of Gary Indiana a $5,000 appearance fee for showing up to a tribute for his son.

Capitalism in action...along with bad taste, gall, and stupidity if they paid it.

540 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:11:33pm

re: #533 Walter L. Newton

Do you believe Jake Tapper?

I said "if" Walter.

But true or not, I think Obama drops him like prom dress.

541 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:11:40pm

Most right-wing blogs are coming out tonight calling Bill Rice (missing pinky man) a hero.

542 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:12:08pm

re: #236 zombie


"No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings..."

Gee Zombie, would it have been too difficult to have given the whole paragraph, or would that have given away that you are reading into the statement what you want?

543 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:12:28pm

You know, the last time I saw funerals this messed-up, they were for Arafat and Ayatollah Khomeini.

544 cronus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:12:33pm

re: #528 3 wood

If so, he's toast.

I'm setting the over/under on Obama throwing this guy under the bus to Sunday morning.

Political bad news is almost always dumped on Friday afternoon. I take the unders!

545 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:12:49pm

re: #537 austin_blue

he said he "discovered" communism. So did I. It was in Econ 101. Did I take a close look? Sure I did. Any internally logical economic philosophy deserves a look! And communism, in theory, had internal logic. It was when you looked at communism *in practice* that it fell apart. It was always used as a tool for maintaining the status of elites. Total government control. A total fail. So I don't mind people dabbling in communism. It's very attractive until you realize that it is totally impractical in the real world.

I tend to give people the opportunity to grow up. If I was still the little wanker I was at 21, I'd cut me own throat.

I met the hottest girls in 1972 when I worked for the McGovern campaign during the Pennsylvania primary. Was 17 and at the party on primary election night (which we lost to Humphrey), I still remember this 20 year old college girl that was hitting on me...

546 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:12:50pm

re: #486 3 wood

It seems to me that there is starting to be a team picture of Marxists in this White House.

* * * *
THey're like those Japanese soldiers who popped up out of hiding years after the end of WWII but still wanted to "fight for their Emperor" who surrendered to the US years before.

Communists themselves discredited Marxism-- which went down before the Clinton Administration took office--yet these people MISSED the history lesson.

547 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:13:01pm

Sup Haak.

548 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:13:09pm

re: #535 Ben Hur

I guess he signed it.

The Washington Times is full of hyperbole.

549 OldScouter  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:13:23pm

Just wondering how Obama will have the TOTUS set up at the High School. Will the students notice?

550 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:13:29pm

re: #484 kcladderman

No i think it is most of us put more faith in what Zombie says than the truthers or Van Jones

Let's summarise the wingnut 'logic' at work here:

1. Even though there is no evidence that Jones was a truther, and he's denied ever being one, we should still consider him suspicious and a potential liar because of his past associations.

AND:

2. Even though there's tons of evidence that truthers lie about everything and always have, we should STILL take their word over Jones'-- because THEIR past associations and conduct are totally irrelevant.

This kind of irrationality puts the D in ODS.

551 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:13:42pm

re: #526 Floral Giraffe

IIRC, the brain was removed for the toxicology tests to determine cause of death. I don't know if he's being burried with it, or not. There were noises of prosecuting the Dr. who administered the drugs.

Thanx.
The doc should get the chair /
5 yrs and loss of his med lic

552 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:13:48pm

re: #530 kcladderman

Sorry- unsubstantiated claims, with zero evidence, doesn't lend credibility- it takes from it.

553 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:13:57pm

Chinese flag at the White House?

OK, what's this?

[Link: big5.fmprc.gov.cn...]

554 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:14:09pm

re: #506 Coracle

How about you look at the first discussion here, instead.

Then I would suggest that you research the Ordinary Reasonable Man Standard. If a reasonable person felt at risk, that is assault.
The mental state of the perp is not governing.

555 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:14:30pm

re: #537 austin_blue

he said he "discovered" communism. So did I. It was in Econ 101. Did I take a close look? Sure I did. Any internally logical economic philosophy deserves a look! And communism, in theory, had internal logic. It was when you looked at communism *in practice* that it fell apart. It was always used as a tool for maintaining the status of elites. Total government control. A total fail. So I don't mind people dabbling in communism. It's very attractive until you realize that it is totally impractical in the real world.

I tend to give people the opportunity to grow up. If I was still the little wanker I was at 21, I'd cut me own throat.

The key here is Mr. Jones apparently not only looked at it, he embraced it and thought it was a great idea.

556 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:14:44pm

Oops! wrong note.

557 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:14:50pm

re: #541 Charles

Most right-wing blogs are coming out tonight calling Bill Rice (missing pinky man) a hero.

Bad judgment is quite the fashion lately.

558 J.S.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:14:59pm

re: #535 Ben Hur


I haven't seen anything (in any of the news articles I've read) in which van Jones denies having signed the petition -- he apologizes and says he never really shared such views, etc. -- but I haven't found an outright denial (you know, something such as: "I did not sign such a petition")...(btw, also the petition was allegedly linking someone in the Bush administration with some high-ranking Pakistani who forwarded monies to Atta...the White House knew about it, but wanted to have a pretext to go to war, so nothing was said, etc., etc.)

559 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:15:23pm

Chinese flag at White House...

[Link: georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov...]

560 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:15:26pm

Now that he admits signing it. I take back my prediction of a resignation for next Thursday morning. Could be earlier. Much earlier.

561 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:15:31pm

re: #541 Charles

Most right-wing blogs are coming out tonight calling Bill Rice (missing pinky man) a hero.

You mean he wasn't trying to clear that protesters airway with his pinky?
///

562 The False God  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:15:31pm

re: #500 austin_blue

My basic position is that people are misinterpreting his comment, which apparently also follows for you misinterpreting my own comment.

Bad people are sometimes factually right about things. That doesn't mean they're good people, just that in their corrupt, destructive way, they manage to say that "The Sun is bright", and be right. From the response he gave on the subject, it would seem that he probably DID sign that thing. Whether he agreed with it or not is another story. What it means is, too. If he didn't sign it, he would've outright said that he didn't sign it. That the Truthers, as big of asshats as they are, may be right about the physical act of him signing it is not absolutely inconceivable.

I interpret his post as being that, just because a group is insane, doesn't mean that everything they put out is necessarily a lie just because of that fact. Find out the background on it, the truth, and then dismiss it if it's false. Warning flags are popping up and should be looked at. That's it.

563 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:15:44pm

re: #553 Gus 802

Chinese flag at the White House?

OK, what's this?

[Link: big5.fmprc.gov.cn...]

It's tradition to fly the flag of visiting foreign dignitaries. I recall seeing the Canadian flag during a visit to the Bush WH.

564 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:15:53pm

re: #554 opnion

Then I would suggest that you research the Ordinary Reasonable Man Standard. If a reasonable person felt at risk, that is assault.
The mental state of the perp is not governing.

I'm reminded of the "World According To Garp".. when Robin Williams drives his car into the garage without any headlights and his wife is in the car that he rear ends that's in the garage and she's giving oral sex to her boyfriend and bites his member off when the car gets hit...

565 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:15:54pm

re: #554 opnion

Then I would suggest that you research the Ordinary Reasonable Man Standard. If a reasonable person felt at risk, that is assault.
The mental state of the perp is not governing.

Does the Ordinary Reasonable Man Standard trump the CA legal code? I honestly don't know the answer to that.

566 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:15:55pm

re: #554 opnion

Then I would suggest that you research the Ordinary Reasonable Man Standard. If a reasonable person felt at risk, that is assault.
The mental state of the perp is not governing.

There is no such standard in California law.

It's just absolutely amazing to me that anyone could defend physical violence in response to a verbal altercation.

567 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:16:11pm

re: #518 Ben Hur

Really?

Did that go under the radar?

* * * *
Hillary's meeting with Hugo Chavez clone Honduran Zelaya today in WASHINGTON, DC, was scrolling on Fox News scroll bar tonight. Only reference I've seen today.

Anyone else hear about this? Obama Administration meeting with Chavez' buddy AND cutting of US Aid $200 million to the country day.

568 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:16:22pm

re: #563 Sharmuta

It's tradition to fly the flag of visiting foreign dignitaries. I recall seeing the Canadian flag during a visit to the Bush WH.

Yeah. Was just wondering if this was going to be the next controversy.

569 slokat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:16:38pm

re: #525 Sharmuta

You are completely off base, I'm asking if this is a new statement from the WH and/or Jones as reported by the Washington Times.

Or if it is old news...

Nothing to do with believing 9/11 truthers.

If this is a new statement, it said "yes I signed but I didn't mean/don't believe what the petition purported".

570 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:16:40pm

re: #565 Coracle

Does the Ordinary Reasonable Man Standard trump the CA legal code? I honestly don't know the answer to that.

No, it doesn't. There is no such standard.

571 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:16:43pm

If the recession is over, why is no one is hiring?
Another 233,000 jobs are lost in August, economists indicate

If the recession really is over, someone forgot to send the memo to the people in the personnel department ... because no one is hiring.

U.S. nonfarm payrolls likely shrank by 233,000 in August, economists surveyed by MarketWatch said, ahead of Friday's jobs report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. See Economic Calendar.

The report will be released at 8:30 a.m. Eastern.

The unemployment rate is expected to tick higher to 9.5% in August from 9.4% in July, according to the survey.

If the declines hold up, August would be the 20th consecutive month of job losses -- the longest losing streak since the Depression of the 1930s. If the forecasts are right, nearly 7 million jobs will have been lost since the recession began in December 2007.

572 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:17:13pm

re: #560 unrealizedviewpoint

Now that he admits signing it. I take back my prediction of a resignation for next Thursday morning. Could be earlier. Much earlier.

Can't be true.

573 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:17:19pm

zombie is credibility. To rely on zombie in no way diminishes another.

574 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:17:21pm

re: #566 Charles

There is no such standard in California law.

It's just absolutely amazing to me that anyone could defend physical violence in response to a verbal altercation.

Instinctive reaction when food is put in one's mouth...

575 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:17:26pm

re: #568 Gus 802

Yeah. Was just wondering if this was going to be the next controversy.

Damn Canadians! They should buy more Treasury Bonds and maybe we would start kissing their butts more, eh?

576 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:17:28pm

re: #542 freetoken

Gee Zombie, would it have been too difficult to have given the whole paragraph, or would that have given away that you are reading into the statement what you want?

Exactly. There's a whole lot of that going around. Frankly I'm shocked to see so much of that here on a blog which is famous for being anti-idiotarian.

577 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:17:39pm

Correction: there is such a standard, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with this case.

578 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:17:41pm
579 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:17:45pm

re: #559 Gus 802

Chinese flag at White House...

[Link: georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov...]

Hasn't it been the practice for State Visits at the WH for he national flag of the visiting head of state to be flown?

I believe so. Therefore non-issue.

580 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:17:48pm

re: #563 Sharmuta

It's tradition to fly the flag of visiting foreign dignitaries. I recall seeing the Canadian flag during a visit to the Bush WH.

Apparently it is. Look here:

[Link: blogsearch.google.com...]

581 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:18:05pm

re: #536 Coracle


What part of "Ability" don't you get? Of course if someone in a wheel chair invaded your space you wold conclude that the ability for assault is not there.
Read the statute again.

582 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:18:12pm

re: #563 Sharmuta

It's tradition to fly the flag of visiting foreign dignitaries.

/except this has absolutely nothing to do with visiting foreign dignitaries

583 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:18:15pm

re: #545 DrNaughty

I met the hottest girls in 1972 when I worked for the McGovern campaign during the Pennsylvania primary. Was 17 and at the party on primary election night (which we lost to Humphrey), I still remember this 20 year old college girl that was hitting on me...

You must have been one hot mensch!

584 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:18:17pm

re: #571 3 wood

Is it true the employment measurements are a trailing indicator wrt recessions?

585 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:18:34pm

re: #579 jcm

Hasn't it been the practice for State Visits at the WH for he national flag of the visiting head of state to be flown?

I believe so. Therefore non-issue.

Did Clinton have the PLO flag raised when Arafat visited the White House in 1993?

586 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:18:48pm

re: #572 Walter L. Newton

Can't be true.

UPDATE: A response was provided to reporters Thursday evening. In it, Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement and said he doesn't feel that way today and never has had such thoughts, although the 911Truth group claims to have personally confirmed support from all of their signers.

587 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:18:53pm

re: #548 Walter L. Newton

The Washington Times is full of hyperbole.

So is the New York Times (though that does not excuse the WaTimes's reporting when its bad).

588 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:18:55pm

re: #571 3 wood

If the recession is over, why is no one is hiring?
Another 233,000 jobs are lost in August, economists indicate

It's not over in Arizona...my 2nd Quarter was the worst one I have ever had and I have been going since 1985.

589 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:19:05pm

re: #570 Charles

No, it doesn't. There is no such standard.

I was going to say that sounds like a tort law standard in any event, not a criminal law standard.

590 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:19:06pm

re: #457 FrogMarch

It takes a lot to bite off a digit. Punching is a totally different ball game.
If some punk leftist harassed me, I might think about defending myself.
Biting a finger off is the act of a coward.

A very determined coward.

591 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:20:02pm

re: #516 Killian Bundy

/so what?


Chicken butt. Wanna know why?

592 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:20:10pm

re: #579 jcm

Hasn't it been the practice for State Visits at the WH for he national flag of the visiting head of state to be flown?

I believe so. Therefore non-issue.

Yes, non-issue.

593 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:20:17pm

re: #542 freetoken

Gee Zombie, would it have been too difficult to have given the whole paragraph, or would that have given away that you are reading into the statement what you want?

It wasn't even a comment made by Van Jones!

594 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:20:19pm

re: #586 unrealizedviewpoint

UPDATE: A response was provided to reporters Thursday evening. In it, Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement and said he doesn't feel that way today and never has had such thoughts, although the 911Truth group claims to have personally confirmed support from all of their signers.

You trust that report at the Washington Times?

595 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:20:33pm

re: #296 karmic_inquisitor

I have an idea -

We offer $4,500 to Obama for every inefficient Czar that he trades in for a more efficient one.

Cash for Bootlickers.

But we have to load the duds up with sodium silicate and rev the snot out of them until they seize up.

/

596 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:20:55pm

re: #590 haakondahl

A very determined coward.

If you punch me in the face, I guarantee I will respond in a way you won't like.

597 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:20:56pm

re: #594 Walter L. Newton

You trust that report at the Washington Times?

And verified by troofers.

598 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:21:03pm

re: #587 Dark_Falcon

So is the New York Times (though that does not excuse the WaTimes's reporting when its bad).

Lies, lies... it's all lies... who do you believe?

599 Pingemi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:21:10pm

The tweet from Tapper says this:

a source says Jones did not carefully review the language in the petition before agreeing to add his name.

Personally I never sign anything I don't read, not even if it is pages long.

And I'll grant that this is an unsourced tweet at this point what it turns into by tomorrow or Saturday will be the deciding factor.

600 MAVCON  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:21:19pm

re: #588 Desert Dog
Me too from Tempe

601 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:21:28pm

re: #583 austin_blue

You must have been one hot mensch!

I wish I knew what happened to her. Never saw her again after that night... (sighs)

602 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:21:32pm

re: #457 FrogMarch

It takes a lot to bite off a digit. Punching is a totally different ball game.
If some punk leftist harassed me, I might think about defending myself.
Biting a finger off is the act of a coward.

I guess you keep missing the part where the finger got into the mouth because it was in the process of punching said mouth. The biting may not have been intentional as it was reactionary, or ever worse, the jaw slamming shut as a result of being struck.

This guy will has a piece of missing finger to remind him not to strike a person with such a limp-fisted punch.

603 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:21:34pm

re: #578 TheMatrix31

Because hope and change is awesome.

And here I thought we were supposed to level out at 8% unemployment, cause the Messiah told me so...

604 VioletTiger  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:22:04pm

re: #586 unrealizedviewpoint
I could not find the article at the link.

605 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:22:08pm

re: #573 unrealizedviewpoint

zombie is credibility. To rely on zombie in no way diminishes another.

Sharm, I see you downdinged this.
Is it not interesting that zombie was 100% correct?

606 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:22:13pm

re: #565 Coracle

Does the Ordinary Reasonable Man Standard trump the CA legal code? I honestly don't know the answer to that.


That standard is huge in common law & the statute does not violate it.
It says that the perp must have the 'Ability". Clearly the perp had the ability to commit the battery.
I don't know how else to explain this to you.

607 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:22:16pm

re: #471 Killgore Trout

I eat you pinkies! I eat them up!
[Link: www.google.com...]

First the school speech now this? It's the chinese cultural revolution all over again, I tells ya!/

608 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:22:20pm

re: #577 Charles

Correction: there is such a standard, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with this case.

Speaking from WA stand point, I don't know about CA.

In a situation where someone, the biter, was confrontational and "in my face", I could justify a shove to back him up. I could not justify a closed fist.

Other jurisdiction in the same case would require me to back up first and try to disengage even before a shove.

Either way a closed fist as a response to some one "in my face" isn't "reasonable."

609 Pianobuff  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:22:23pm

re: #577 Charles

Correction: there is such a standard, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with this case.

I did watch the tape finally, and Bill the old dude pretty much said he landed the first shot/punched him.

What I'm wondering (and this is more just a technical question because it doesn't seem to apply in this case from what we know so far) is if, in CA, person #1 said to person #2 "I'm going to beat your face to a pulp in 3 seconds" and person #2 pre-emptively strikes person 1, are person #2's actions defensible.

Again, I'm not hearing that this is the case with Bill the old dude, but I'm just curious all the same.

610 Irish Rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:22:34pm

re: #476 Charles

I'm getting some really extreme hate mail tonight. Apparently I'm a Hugo Chavez supporter now, which comes as quite a surprise.

Where the hell is that coming from?

611 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:22:48pm

re: #562 The False God

My basic position is that people are misinterpreting his comment, which apparently also follows for you misinterpreting my own comment.

Bad people are sometimes factually right about things. That doesn't mean they're good people, just that in their corrupt, destructive way, they manage to say that "The Sun is bright", and be right. From the response he gave on the subject, it would seem that he probably DID sign that thing. Whether he agreed with it or not is another story. What it means is, too. If he didn't sign it, he would've outright said that he didn't sign it. That the Truthers, as big of asshats as they are, may be right about the physical act of him signing it is not absolutely inconceivable.

I interpret his post as being that, just because a group is insane, doesn't mean that everything they put out is necessarily a lie just because of that fact. Find out the background on it, the truth, and then dismiss it if it's false. Warning flags are popping up and should be looked at. That's it.

No, but directly associating yourself with it is *stooopid*.

It puts you into the radical position of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Without really investigating your "friend".

Jones says he had nothing to do with these people. There is no evidence available on the Web this is true. This is really a QED situation. Drop it.

612 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:22:58pm

re: #586 unrealizedviewpoint

A response was provided to reporters Thursday evening. In it, Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement and said he doesn't feel that way today and never has had such thoughts, although the 911Truth group claims to have personally confirmed support from all of their signers.

"In recent days some in the news media have reported on past statements I made before I joined the administration – some of which were made years ago," Mr. Jones said. "If I have offended anyone with statements I made in the past, I apologize. As for the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever.

They have yet to produce a quote saying that he signed the statement. If he did, I'll be more than happy to shit all over him.

613 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:23:03pm

re: #592 Gus 802

Yes, non-issue.

I have issues with the ChiComs, but that's another thing...

614 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:23:10pm

re: #607 Jimmah

First the school speech now this? It's the chinese cultural revolution all over again, I tells ya!/

Hey, it was the LEFT PINKY...that is a signal...

615 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:23:12pm

re: #584 freetoken

Is it true the employment measurements are a trailing indicator wrt recessions?

Yes. It almost every recession since the '20's, employment has lagged well-behind a return to positive growth in the economy. In fact, during the depression, the economy actually grew at a near normal pace in three different quarters, but employment never improved in any measurable way as a result of that economic growth. What's even more disturbing, is that the stock market enjoyed rallies during the GD that still rank as some of the strongest rallies in the history of the market.

If people were looking at the favorable market performance the last several months as a sign of a recovering economy, they may be positioning themselves for powerful disappointment.

616 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:23:20pm

re: #594 Walter L. Newton

You trust that report at the Washington Times?

Are we now totally discounting the WT here? Wow!

617 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:23:22pm

re: #609 Pianobuff

I did watch the tape finally, and Bill the old dude pretty much said he landed the first shot/punched him.

He admitted very clearly that he punched the guy TWICE, without any physical provocation.

618 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:23:28pm

re: #577 Charles

Correction: there is such a standard, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with this case.

Why?

619 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:23:46pm

re: #603 3 wood

And here I thought we were supposed to level out at 8% unemployment, cause the Messiah told me so...

You mean he was wrong/lied? Damn. I'm shocked.

620 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:24:12pm

re: #581 opnion

What part of "Ability" don't you get? Of course if someone in a wheel chair invaded your space you wold conclude that the ability for assault is not there.
Read the statute again.

What part of "Attempt" don't you get? I know it doesn't happen often, but you should be ready to recognize and admit when you're mistaken about events.

.

621 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:24:23pm

re: #605 unrealizedviewpoint

Sharm, I see you downdinged this.
Is it not interesting that zombie was 100% correct?

Don't matter to some people.

622 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:24:29pm

re: #612 Killgore Trout

They have yet to produce a quote saying that he signed the statement. If he did, I'll be more than happy to shit all over him.

Will you accept his resignation as the signal to squat?

623 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:24:41pm

re: #567 alegrias

* * * *
Hillary's meeting with Hugo Chavez clone Honduran Zelaya today in WASHINGTON, DC, was scrolling on Fox News scroll bar tonight. Only reference I've seen today.

Anyone else hear about this? Obama Administration meeting with Chavez' buddy AND cutting of US Aid $200 million to the country day.

$30 million.

624 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:24:49pm

re: #598 Walter L. Newton

Lies, lies... it's all lies... who do you believe?

They got in a fight. Throw 'em both in the clink for 60 days to teach them to govern their passions.

625 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:24:53pm

re: #605 unrealizedviewpoint

People who get picked up by alex jones don't have credibility in my book.

626 Irish Rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:24:58pm

I can't believe we're still discussing who was at fault in the pinkie incident.

627 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:25:06pm

re: #617 Charles

He admitted very clearly that he punched the guy TWICE, without any physical provocation.

He committed a crime and admitted it. So did the guy that incited the violence and bit off his finger. Sounds like they should both be brought up on charges. The yelling and screaming is bad enough, punching and biting each other is even worse.

628 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:25:20pm

re: #616 unrealizedviewpoint

Are we now totally discounting the WT here? Wow!

Ok, is no one is catching the sarcasm here?

629 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:25:20pm

re: #596 Charles

If you punch me in the face, I guarantee I will respond in a way you won't like.

Last guy who tried that on me woke up in the ambulance on his way to the hospital.

630 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:25:30pm

re: #593 Sharmuta

It wasn't even a comment made by Van Jones!

Yes, but even more than that, it was a polite way to address an awkward situation. STORM was trying to portray themselves as supporting Arab-Americans against bigotry that arose immediately after 9/11. Yet it is true that the terrorists were Arabs, most from KSA. So instead of saying "Even though the terrorists were Arabs..." the woman said "No matter..."

It is a common way of using English.

631 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:25:38pm

re: #608 jcm

Speaking from WA stand point, I don't know about CA.

In a situation where someone, the biter, was confrontational and "in my face", I could justify a shove to back him up. I could not justify a closed fist.

Other jurisdiction in the same case would require me to back up first and try to disengage even before a shove.

Either way a closed fist as a response to some one "in my face" isn't "reasonable."

We are talking about whether an ordinary reasonable man would feel threatened, not whether the resopse was appropriate.

632 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:25:54pm

re: #629 3 wood

Last guy who tried that on me woke up in the ambulance on his way to the hospital.


How many fingers did he have?

633 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:25:58pm

re: #596 Charles

If you punch me in the face, I guarantee I will respond in a way you won't like.

Fortunately I have no intent to do so. Spares us that little unpleasantness.

Me, I'm a grappler. I don't start fistfights--I'll put up with a lot before getting physical. When somebody throws a punch or a kick, however, I'll try to grab them and use their own weight against them. I'm not good at fistfighting, and I am actually pretty good at wrapping a guy up and slamming him bodily against something. But it's really a defensive fighting style, which suits me fine.

I cannot fathom biting a person's finger off. That is a whole other world of animalistic rage.

634 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:26:04pm

re: #626 Irish Rose

I can't believe we're still discussing who was at fault in the pinkie incident.

I know, I mean...I'm not one to point fingers, but..

635 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:26:06pm

re: #628 Walter L. Newton

Ok, is no one is catching the sarcasm here?

No, I missed it. But, I'm weary from a long and boring shift at work.

636 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:26:09pm

re: #604 VioletTiger

I could not find the article at the link.

scroll.

637 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:26:10pm

re: #605 unrealizedviewpoint

Sharm, I see you downdinged this.
Is it not interesting that zombie was 100% correct?

I don't agree. Zombie was not correct in this one. There is absolutely no evidence that Van Jones is a 9/11 Truther, apart from his name being listed on a Truther website.

None.

638 Pianobuff  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:26:16pm

re: #617 Charles

He admitted very clearly that he punched the guy TWICE, without any physical provocation.

I got that and that's not in dispute. My question is more about CA law in general. Being that I'm a resident I'm curious. If someone told me that we going to kick my ass and I struck first, would that be defensible? More of a practical question (not that I plan on getting into any fights).

639 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:26:23pm

re: #512 Flyers1974

Correct. There is no such thing as a fair fight.

640 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:26:58pm

re: #503 noshariaincanadacrackp

uh oh, I see Charles is downdinging support for Zombie's line of reasoning. Beware.


That 'line of reasoning' doesn't deserve the name of 'reason'. It's crackpot and it's been thoroughly shredded here, if I do say so myself.

641 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:27:00pm

In other news ...

The Clinton Peace and Hope and Change mission to North Korea is paying big dividends -

[Link: www.chinadaily.com.cn...]

SEOUL: The Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) said on Friday that it was in the final stage of enriching uranium, a process that would give it a second path to making a nuclear weapon.

After a series of conciliatory gestures by the DPRK over the past month, the announcement raises the stakes in efforts by the international community to convince the state to give up its nuclear weapons programme.

"Experimental uranium enrichment has successfully been conducted to enter into completion phase," the KCNA news agency quoted DPRK's United Nations delegation as saying in a letter to the head of the UN Security Council (UNSC).

The DPRK has already tested two plutonium-based nuclear devices, the one in May triggering tightened international sanctions.

The Unites States has long suspected that the DPRK has a secret programme to enrich uranium for weapons. Experts have said it has not developed anything near a full scale enrichment programme.

The DPRK said its latest moves were in response to tighter sanctions.

So here is a question for resident physician/philosophers - if your wrists are slit and your pinky is cut off, will your fist unclench?

642 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:27:08pm

re: #612 Killgore Trout

They have yet to produce a quote saying that he signed the statement. If he did, I'll be more than happy to shit all over him.

What's this, chopped liver...

"Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement and said he doesn't feel that way today and never has had such thoughts, although the 911Truth group claims to have personally confirmed support from all of their signers."

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

643 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:27:16pm

re: #622 unrealizedviewpoint

Will you accept his resignation as the signal to squat?

He's what, a diversity czar? Why the fuck would I care about a diversity czar and why would I be surprised if he's a leftist douchebag?

644 Pingemi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:27:19pm

Let me thank "The False God" for defending me and understanding my point.

I would like to point "Austin_Blue" to my comment #507 and repeat the warning about anti-anti ism.

I repeat my request for a retraction of the suggestion that I either support the BNP or expressed support for them.

645 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:27:25pm

re: #620 Coracle

What part of "Attempt" don't you get? I know it doesn't happen often, but you should be ready to recognize and admit when you're mistaken about events.

.

You quoted a statute & misinerpreted it. Now you go to facts, which are in dispute.

646 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:27:26pm

re: #602 Slumbering Behemoth

I guess you keep missing the part where the finger got into the mouth because it was in the process of punching said mouth. The biting may not have been intentional as it was reactionary, or ever worse, the jaw slamming shut as a result of being struck.

This guy will has a piece of missing finger to remind him not to strike a person with such a limp-fisted punch.

Nope. Not accidental, and there is not way that a hand with one finger in the mouth also slams that jaw shut with force enough to sever a finger.

647 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:27:41pm

re: #625 Sharmuta

People who get picked up by alex jones don't have credibility in my book.

I actually don't know what you're talking about.

648 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:27:52pm

re: #643 Killgore Trout

He's what, a diversity czar? Why the fuck would I care about a diversity czar and why would I be surprised if he's a leftist douchebag?

We're supposed to care about the czars- glenn back says to.

649 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:28:02pm

re: #594 Walter L. Newton

You trust that report at the Washington Times?

It's just not the Washington Times reporting this. Jake Tapper's (ABCnews.com/Political Punch) blog has it as well.

650 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:28:18pm

re: #639 Slumbering Behemoth

Correct. There is no such thing as a fair fight.

Which is what we were criticized for back during Desert Storm. Which meant that we couldn't take out the RG and ended active combat a few days earlier than we should have...

651 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:28:29pm

re: #643 Killgore Trout

He's what, a diversity czar? Why the fuck would I care about a diversity czar and why would I be surprised if he's a leftist douchebag?

Green Czar Killgore, c'mon, catch up. Good Evening!

652 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:28:59pm

re: #315 avanti

Yes, and the statement did not challenge that, it just said that attacking minorities that happened to be Arab without proof they were in any way responsible is wrong.

And, if you will recollect, there was practically zero in the way of backlash against actual Arab-Americans in the days following 9/11. Practically zero. I seem to remember some poor Sikh cab driver who was beaten to death by some yo-yo who thought he was a Muslim, but widespread attacks against Muslims simply never happened, despite the best efforts of Jones and his ilk to find evidence to the contrary.

653 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:29:11pm

re: #649 JarHeadLifer

It's just not the Washington Times reporting this. Jake Tapper's (ABCnews.com/Political Punch) blog has it as well.

I mention this again, evidently some are not catching my sarcasm.

654 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:29:20pm

The STORM summation document (published in 2004) doesn't mention any Truther ideas. Communist, revolutionary ideas, yes. Troofer, no.
Why would they be covering up five years in advance of possible future czardom?

655 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:29:22pm

re: #648 Sharmuta

We're supposed to care about the czars- glenn back says to.

Well, if we're not supposed to care about the czars, then why do we care about anyone from Obama's past?

656 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:29:23pm

re: #651 unrealizedviewpoint

Green Czar Killgore, c'mon, catch up. Good Evening!


Huh. I still can't get worked up over this.

657 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:29:28pm

re: #589 Flyers1974

I was going to say that sounds like a tort law standard in any event, not a criminal law standard.

The standard applies to both.

658 snowcrash  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:29:30pm

Punching is anger, biting is rage. He bit through skin, tendon and bone. He had blood in his mouth and severed a body park. He is an animal.

659 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:29:49pm

re: #652 Alberta Oil Peon

And, if you will recollect, there was practically zero in the way of backlash against actual Arab-Americans in the days following 9/11. Practically zero. I seem to remember some poor Sikh cab driver who was beaten to death by some yo-yo who thought he was a Muslim, but widespread attacks against Muslims simply never happened, despite the best efforts of Jones and his ilk to find evidence to the contrary.

And if you will recollect, George W. Bush made exactly the same kind of statements after 9/11.

660 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:29:50pm

re: #658 snowcrash

Punching is anger, biting is rage. He bit through skin, tendon and bone. He had blood in his mouth and severed a body park. He is an animal.

Jaws

661 slokat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:29:57pm

re: #651 unrealizedviewpoint

Green Czar Killgore, c'mon, catch up. Good Evening!

Lime Green Czar?
The seventies are truly being forced upon us again...

662 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:30:11pm

re: #648 Sharmuta

We're supposed to care about the czars- glenn back says to.

Sharm, just cause nutty Beck speaks of it, doesn't mean it ain't so.
Beck probably believes the sun will rise tomorrow too. Do you not believe that?

663 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:30:13pm

It's a mistake to punch a dog in the mouth, too.

664 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:30:31pm

re: #550 iceweasel

1. Even though there is no evidence that Jones was a truther, and he's denied ever being one, we should still consider him suspicious and a potential liar because of his past associations.

I can go for that. His organization did issue a statement on November 1st 2001:

"Anti-Arab hostility is already reaching a fever pitch as pundits and common people alike rush to judgment that an Arab group is responsible for this tragedy," said Van Jones, national executive director of the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights. "We fear that an atmosphere is being created that will result in official and street violence against Arab men, women and children."

A rush to judgment? Who on earth did he think perpetrated it? The Free Tibet movement? We had evidence the night of the attack that bin-Laden's group was responsible and here Van Jones is two months later saying there is a rush to judgment?

Sounds kind of squirrely to me.

665 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:30:32pm

re: #645 opnion

You quoted a statute & misinerpreted it. Now you go to facts, which are in dispute.

Both the statute and the facts - including is own admission - support Rice being guilty of assault and battery before the biter was guilty of anything. It's pretty simple.

666 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:30:44pm

re: #656 Killgore Trout

Huh. I still can't get worked up over this.

You know what's opposite of green on the color wheel? Red! Red for the color of the flag of the Red Chinese Communists. Now, tell me, have you ever seen Van Jones drinking any water?

//

667 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:30:45pm

re: #541 Charles

Most right-wing blogs are coming out tonight calling Bill Rice (missing pinky man) a hero.

Maybe they'll bite their pinkies off in solidarity. Morons.

668 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:30:47pm

re: #641 karmic_inquisitor

In other news ...

The Clinton Peace and Hope and Change mission to North Korea is paying big dividends -

[Link: www.chinadaily.com.cn...]

So here is a question for resident physician/philosophers - if your wrists are slit and your pinky is cut off, will your fist unclench?

Only if you renounce the blood lost.

669 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:30:59pm

re: #661 slokat

Lime Green Czar?
The seventies are truly being forced upon us again...

That would be avocado green.

670 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:31:03pm

re: #584 freetoken

Is it true the employment measurements are a trailing indicator wrt recessions?

Yes, to the tune af about a quarter.

For example, even though I got official notice of my job being eliminated this past Monday, I won't show up in the stat's for a couple of months cause of the severance package I'm getting.

But I'm also seeing no visible signs of GDP growing too, so I think things ar stil contracting.

Even with the time lag, Obama has been in office long enough to wear this now.

671 The False God  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:31:05pm

re: #611 austin_blue

Yes, directly associating oneself with the BNP would be stupid. But nobody here has done that. Certainly not me, and nothing said by the one Charles accused of somehow "supporting" the BNP, from what I can read.

The fact that the Truthers may be telling the truth that he signed the statement, for whatever reason, doesn't make me or anyone else a Truther. When you stop making such an absurd logical leap, things will be less muddy.

Jones says he had nothing to do with these people. There is no evidence available on the Web this is true.

He didn't say the magic words: "I did not sign that petition." That would've immediately dispelled every question, unless he was proven to have lied. As it is right now, he's either making himself look shady for no reason or he did sign it, and he's trying to patch up everything because he IS a former Truther, which isn't necessarily true, or he signs onto anything that gets put in front of him, which is more likely and makes him look like an idiot.

672 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:31:30pm

re: #653 Walter L. Newton

I mention this again, evidently some are not catching my sarcasm.

My apologies. I have to adjust my monitor's sarcasm filter. It's what I get for visting HuffPo several times this week.

673 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:31:35pm

OK, I get it. Someone who's punched twice in the face by a nut who believes health care reform is a plot to take away our precious freedoms has no right to do anything in self defense.

He's an animal. He should have just taken the punches and gone home.

674 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:31:50pm

re: #649 JarHeadLifer

It's just not the Washington Times reporting this. Jake Tapper's (ABCnews.com/Political Punch) blog has it as well.

Is the Political Punch followed by the Bi-Partisan Bite?

675 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:31:54pm

re: #559 Gus 802

Chinese flag at White House...

[Link: georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov...]

That's not the same as hoisting the flag on the south lawn.

676 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:31:54pm

re: #633 haakondahl

Fortunately I have no intent to do so. Spares us that little unpleasantness.

Me, I'm a grappler. I don't start fistfights--I'll put up with a lot before getting physical. When somebody throws a punch or a kick, however, I'll try to grab them and use their own weight against them. I'm not good at fistfighting, and I am actually pretty good at wrapping a guy up and slamming him bodily against something. But it's really a defensive fighting style, which suits me fine.

I cannot fathom biting a person's finger off. That is a whole other world of animalistic rage.

Disproportionate response. Bet a jury will see it that way in a civil case.
Add to that , the biter provoked the confrontation.

677 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:32:01pm

re: #654 jaunte

Good point.

I'm afraid the Beck-ization of many people have led them to accept unsubstantiated claims as truth, and half-assed analyses as some sort of brilliance.

678 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:32:09pm

re: #662 unrealizedviewpoint

The man thinks Isaiah 2:4 is communist propaganda. If he said the sun was rising tomorrow- I would double check that.

679 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:32:15pm

re: #646 haakondahl

Nope. Not accidental, and there is not way that a hand with one finger in the mouth also slams that jaw shut with force enough to sever a finger.

Alternatively, he may have grabbed the victim by the face while he punched him with the other fist - something I've seen first hand - the attacker severed his own finger.

680 slokat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:32:29pm

re: #669 CyanSnowHawk

That would be avocado green.

Was thinking leisure suits, not appliances...

681 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:32:32pm

Here's the Hugo Chavez love connection, Charles:

"Conservatives were already clamoring for Jones head - especially after Fox News host Glenn Beck devoted Monday and Tuesday segments of his nightly broadcast portraying Jones as a radical linked in some way, shape or form to the worldviews of Hugo Chavez, Jeremiah Wright, and, of course, Barack Obama.

682 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:32:37pm

re: #676 opnion

The puncher said he doesn't want to sue the biter.

683 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:32:57pm

re: #680 slokat

Was thinking leisure suits, not appliances...

I'd like a chance with Marsha Brady...

684 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:32:59pm

re: #643 Killgore Trout

He's what, a diversity czar? Why the fuck would I care about a diversity czar and why would I be surprised if he's a leftist douchebag?

Just FYI Diversity Czar is Mark Lloyd.
He's on tomorrows line up for attack.
/

685 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:33:03pm

re: #632 Coracle

How many fingers did he have?

I did not have time to count, he pulled a pistol on me andI had to react real fast.

He did leave most of his teeth behind on the sidewalk though.

686 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:33:04pm

The European Central Bank has basically declared their recession over. They are in recovery.

[Link: www.theaustralian.news.com.au...]

Wouldn't it be great to live in one of those capitalist countries where politicians resist using recessions to institute massive spending programs that only prolong the pain?

687 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:33:15pm

re: #682 jaunte

The puncher said he doesn't want to sue the biter.

Because he know he was the attacker.

688 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:33:17pm

re: #677 freetoken

Good point.

I'm afraid the Beck-ization of many people have led them to accept unsubstantiated claims as truth, and half-assed analyses as some sort of brilliance.

And don't forget the hyperbole- they really love overblown hyperbole. Like eugenics is coming!1! Eat it up with spoons.

689 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:33:26pm

re: #682 jaunte

The puncher said he doesn't want to sue the biter.

That's probably smart on his part, because he would lose. He was the aggressor.

690 neocon hippie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:33:34pm

I trust Zombie 100% on this one.

691 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:33:39pm

re: #670 3 wood

Yes, to the tune af about a quarter.

For example, even though I got official notice of my job being eliminated this past Monday, I won't show up in the stat's for a couple of months cause of the severance package I'm getting.

But I'm also seeing no visible signs of GDP growing too, so I think things ar stil contracting.

Even with the time lag, Obama has been in office long enough to wear this now.

No, it's still Bush's fault. Gosh, how could you be so naive?!

/

692 TMF  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:34:07pm

Heh.

"Green jobs czar"

Man, these creeps are satires of themselves at this point.

693 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:34:16pm

Hate mail now up to 21.

694 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:34:16pm

re: #687 Bagua

re: #689 Charles

He did seem more chagrined than indignant.

695 slokat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:34:40pm

re: #683 DrNaughty

I'd like a chance with Marsha Brady...

I don't care what the topic is it's always about Marsha, Marsha , Marsha...

696 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:34:54pm

re: #643 Killgore Trout

He's what, a diversity czar? Why the fuck would I care about a diversity czar and why would I be surprised if he's a leftist douchebag?

I was wondering earlier what a Green Job Advisor was exactly and what kind of authority comes with this position. I don't think this man has the power to change great events.

697 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:34:57pm

re: #674 haakondahl

Is the Political Punch followed by the Bi-Partisan Bite?

I can't believe that you are you going to listen to anyone at ABC, which is the wacky main stream media, and the Washington Times, which is nothing but hyperbole and of course Van Jones himself, who we all know is a big fat lier?

698 snowcrash  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:35:29pm

re: #673 Charles
He can't punch back? Or go for his knees and pull him down? He's 20 years younger and all he can do is bite? Whatever, its done.

699 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:35:31pm

re: #679 Bagua

Alternatively, he may have grabbed the victim by the face while he punched him with the other fist - something I've seen first hand - the attacker severed his own finger.

Un-fricking-likely. It could also be that the biter showed up with razorblades in his mouth. Lots of things could have happened.

700 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:36:04pm

re: #616 unrealizedviewpoint

Are we now totally discounting the WT here? Wow!

The Washington Times is shit. It's a rag that has been repeatedly busted distorting items and outright lying in order to advance a partisan/conservative agenda. They're completely dishonest. Their lies have been documented here as well as elsewhere.

I'll acknowledge that they may at times have an article that doesn't contain a lie or a distortion, but their track record is such that you have to always be suspicious of them and find independent confirmation. As such, I consider them worthless as a primary news source.

701 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:36:04pm

re: #665 Coracle

Both the statute and the facts - including is own admission - support Rice being guilty of assault and battery before the biter was guilty of anything. It's pretty simple.

Let me try this again. The guy had the much younger Move On guy in his face. He reasonably concluded that the guy had the 'ABILITY" to perform a battery & defended himself.
When the guy got in his face , that was the battery.

702 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:36:16pm

re: #681 Danny

Here's the Hugo Chavez love connection, Charles:

"Conservatives were already clamoring for Jones head - especially after Fox News host Glenn Beck devoted Monday and Tuesday segments of his nightly broadcast portraying Jones as a radical linked in some way, shape or form to the worldviews of Hugo Chavez, Jeremiah Wright, and, of course, Barack Obama.

Great. The case against Jones was built by Glen Beck. Does anyone have any good news to report?

703 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:36:29pm

re: #696 Flyers1974

I've been trying to figure out exactly what green jobs are, too. The penumbra is pretty inclusive.

704 USCMSNE  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:36:32pm
UPDATE: A response was provided to reporters Thursday evening. In it, Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement and said he doesn't feel that way today and never has had such thoughts, although the 911Truth group claims to have personally confirmed support from all of their signers.
"In recent days some in the news media have reported on past statements I made before I joined the administration – some of which were made years ago," Mr. Jones said. "If I have offended anyone with statements I made in the past, I apologize. As for the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever.

LINK

It's a little troubling that this website would defend Jones. Now, the defense hasn't been overt. But the posts that have cross linked to CoC under the guise of Beck Hate only give credibility to a man and an organization that deserves none. If you disagree with Beck, so be it, but to ignore the man that is Van Jones because it feeds into your message is despicable. His quoted statement from the WT says everything that needs to be said. He apologizes for signing it. Well, that's convenient now, isn't it?

705 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:36:36pm

re: #699 haakondahl

It could also be that the biter showed up with razorblades in his mouth. Lots of things could have happened.

It's true. I always attend healthcare rallies with razor blades in my mouth.

706 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:36:42pm

re: #686 karmic_inquisitor

But I thought the Europeans were those nasty socialists, not capitalists! Did we not hear over the past years how we ought to be different than the Europeans, and that Europe-loving politicians are evil?

707 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:36:58pm

re: #696 Flyers1974

I was wondering earlier what a Green Job Advisor was exactly and what kind of authority comes with this position. I don't think this man has the power to change great events.

He has the power granted him by the President.

708 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:37:07pm

re: #686 karmic_inquisitor

The European Central Bank has basically declared their recession over. They are in recovery.

[Link: www.theaustralian.news.com.au...]

Wouldn't it be great to live in one of those capitalist countries where politicians resist using recessions to institute massive spending programs that only prolong the pain?

Preach it brother. Obama begged them to spend more the first quarter of this year. Thankfully, they had the courage and insight to tell him to get bent. They'll be in a much better economic position in 18 months - just before we replace Zimbabwe as the world's leader for hyper-inflation. Good times. Good times.

709 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:37:13pm

re: #703 jaunte

I've been trying to figure out exactly what green jobs are, too. The penumbra is pretty inclusive.

Ones created by tax dollars...

710 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:37:18pm

re: #697 Walter L. Newton

I can't believe that you are you going to listen to anyone at ABC, which is the wacky main stream media, and the Washington Times, which is nothing but hyperbole and of course Van Jones himself, who we all know is a big fat lier?

He must be a Statist-ical out-liar.

711 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:37:26pm

re: #686 karmic_inquisitor

The European Central Bank has basically declared their recession over. They are in recovery.

During the great depression, most of Europe recovered before we did.

712 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:37:42pm

re: #700 iceweasel

The Washington Times is shit. It's a rag that has been repeatedly busted distorting items and outright lying in order to advance a partisan/conservative agenda. They're completely dishonest. Their lies have been documented here as well as elsewhere.

I'll acknowledge that they may at times have an article that doesn't contain a lie or a distortion, but their track record is such that you have to always be suspicious of them and find independent confirmation. As such, I consider them worthless as a primary news source.

I agree, and we wouldn't want to let that little thing from Jack Tapper at ABC get in the way of all this. We can't be having all these sources confirming this.

713 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:37:46pm

re: #703 jaunte

I've been trying to figure out exactly what green jobs are, too. The penumbra is pretty inclusive.

That's nothing. Wait until you see the emanations!

714 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:37:54pm

re: #705 Coracle

It's true. I always attend healthcare rallies with razor blades in my mouth.

Bleeding Gums Murphy!
[Link: simpsons.wikia.com...]

715 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:05pm

re: #701 opnion

Let me try this again. The guy had the much younger Move On guy in his face. He reasonably concluded that the guy had the 'ABILITY" to perform a battery & defended himself.
When the guy got in his face , that was the battery.

He was at a demonstration. People shout at demonstrations. This is absolutely no excuse for committing violence.

716 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:06pm

re: #654 jaunte

The STORM summation document (published in 2004) doesn't mention any Truther ideas. Communist, revolutionary ideas, yes. Troofer, no.
Why would they be covering up five years in advance of possible future czardom?

The fact that we can find no evidence of the conspiracy only PROVES that the conspiracy is much deeper and more subtle than we at first thought!

It's just like Obama's grandparents cunningly placing birth announcements in Hawaiian news papers in anticipation of him one day running for POTUS!

The troof is out there!

717 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:13pm

re: #705 Coracle

It's true. I always attend healthcare rallies with razor blades in my mouth.

And here I was, lugging that heavy assault weapon ...

/headsmack

718 DaveOlson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:14pm

Either Obama is purposefully stocking the White House with crazies, or he is too dumb to know the difference. I don't know which is worse.

719 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:16pm

re: #701 opnion

Let me try this again. The guy had the much younger Move On guy in his face. He reasonably concluded that the guy had the 'ABILITY" to perform a battery & defended himself.
When the guy got in his face , that was the battery.

You can try it as many times as you want and still be wrong. Look at the CA statute. Battery is physical violence. Assault is attempt at physical violence. "Getting in his face" is neither.

720 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:16pm

re: #705 Coracle

It's true. I always attend healthcare rallies with razor blades in my mouth.

Settled, then. Next topic?

721 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:20pm

re: #700 iceweasel

The Washington Times is shit. It's a rag that has been repeatedly busted distorting items and outright lying in order to advance a partisan/conservative agenda. They're completely dishonest. Their lies have been documented here as well as elsewhere.

And this is different from the New York Time, how?

722 kcladderman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:32pm

re: #700 iceweasel

So you are judging them on their past?

723 Pianobuff  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:50pm

If by some strange circumstance Obama jettisons Jones under the bus, will Beck try to take credit?

724 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:54pm

re: #718 DaveOlson

Either Obama is purposefully stocking the White House with crazies, or he is too dumb to know the difference. I don't know which is worse.

He's just takin care of his bros...

725 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:39:04pm

re: #682 jaunte

The puncher said he doesn't want to sue the biter.

Yeah, wait until a lawyer gets hold of him.

726 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:39:21pm

re: #715 Charles

He was at a demonstration. People shout at demonstrations. This is absolutely no excuse for committing violence.

Quite Concur.

727 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:39:25pm

re: #712 Walter L. Newton

I agree, and we wouldn't want to let that little thing from Jack Tapper at ABC get in the way of all this. We can't be having all these sources confirming this.

The sources confirming this are troofers.

728 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:39:31pm

re: #718 DaveOlson

Either Obama is purposefully stocking the White House with crazies, or he is too dumb to know the difference. I don't know which is worse.

What's worse? The fact that he has the power to stock the White House with anything.

729 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:39:36pm

re: #693 Charles

Hate mail now up to 21.

It can drink now.

730 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:39:42pm

re: #721 JarHeadLifer

And this is different from the New York Time, how?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

731 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:39:54pm

re: #675 Wendya

That's not the same as hoisting the flag on the south lawn.

As long as it's flown lower than the stars and stripes, a non issue.

732 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:39:57pm

re: #691 TheMatrix31

No, it's still Bush's fault. Gosh, how could you be so naive?!

Sorry, I'm still learning about this here economics stuff.

733 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:40:02pm

re: #715 Charles

It is not freedom of speech to scream in someone's face.

734 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:40:12pm

The victim of the attack is bad because he defended himself in an 'animalistic' fashion against the repeated face-punching!

I'm hearing this from conservatives?

WOW.

735 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:40:30pm

This guy is a total whack job. A frickin loon. A commie Clown.

736 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:40:34pm

re: #700 iceweasel

The Washington New York Times is shit. It's a rag that has been repeatedly busted distorting items and outright lying in order to advance a partisan/conservative liberal agenda. They're completely dishonest. Their lies have been documented here as well as elsewhere.

I'll acknowledge that they may at times have an article that doesn't contain a lie or a distortion, but their track record is such that you have to always be suspicious of them and find independent confirmation. As such, I consider them worthless as a primary news source.

FTFY - I now agree with you.

737 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:40:38pm

re: #728 TheMatrix31

What's worse? The fact that he has the power to stock the White House with anything.

He was voted into office by a majority of the citizens of America. I know you don't like this, but it's a fact. And yes, that means he has the power to appoint cabinet members and other officials.

Waaah.

738 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:40:39pm

re: #663 jaunte

It's a mistake to punch a dog in the mouth, too.

I did about two years ago. A big dog attacked my pug in a park. Big dog let go, pug was ok and I ended up with a stress fracture in my hand which healed in about 4 months. Not the smartest move.

739 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:40:42pm

re: #652 Alberta Oil Peon

And, if you will recollect, there was practically zero in the way of backlash against actual Arab-Americans in the days following 9/11. Practically zero. I seem to remember some poor Sikh cab driver who was beaten to death by some yo-yo who thought he was a Muslim, but widespread attacks against Muslims simply never happened, despite the best efforts of Jones and his ilk to find evidence to the contrary.

I recollect differently. Two convenience store owners within a mile of my house had to post signs on their doors saying that that they condemned the attacks. They were American citizens and they loved their country. They just happened to be Pakistanis at birth. There was intimidation all over the place. Ugly.

740 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:41:02pm

re: #614 Desert Dog

Hey, it was the LEFT PINKY...that is a signal...

Indeed.

Arise you who refuse to be slaves

With our flesh and our blood let us build

Our new great wall

/

741 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:41:06pm

Hypodermic Needle Attacks Prompt Mass Protests In China's XinJiang

[Link: www.japantoday.com...]

/ no reports of finger biting or wrist slitting though.

742 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:41:39pm

re: #737 Charles

He was voted into office by a majority of the citizens of America. I know you don't like this, but it's a fact. And yes, that means he has the power to appoint cabinet members and other officials.

Waaah.

Well obviously.

743 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:41:56pm

re: #723 Pianobuff

If by some strange circumstance Obama jettisons Jones under the bus, will Beck try to take credit?

Are you kidding. he'll ahve won. It'll be a freakin' circus over there.

744 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:42:09pm

re: #739 austin_blue

I recollect differently. Two convenience store owners within a mile of my house had to post signs on their doors saying that that they condemned the attacks. They were American citizens and they loved their country. They just happened to be Pakistanis at birth. There was intimidation all over the place. Ugly.

I recall the same, and also the large number of American Flags that appeared a gas stations and convenience stores as well...

745 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:42:36pm

re: #715 Charles

He was at a demonstration. People shout at demonstrations. This is absolutely no excuse for committing violence.

The issue is a legal one. Did the old guy reasonably conclude that the Move On guy meant him violence & did he have the 'ability " to attack?
Politics are not realevant.

746 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:42:56pm

re: #658 snowcrash

Punching is anger, biting is rage. He bit through skin, tendon and bone. He had blood in his mouth and severed a body park. He is an animal.

Sorry, but if you initiate unprovoked violence, you get what you deserve. That reminds me of a story of a man who physically attacked a woman. He initiated the violence, and lost an eye for his trouble. Tough shit, I say. He had it coming.

747 wee fury  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:06pm

re: #734 Jimmah

The victim of the attack is bad because he defended himself in an 'animalistic' fashion against the repeated face-punching!

I'm hearing this from conservatives?

WOW.

What? The little fingerless man is the one who did the punching.

748 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:10pm

re: #734 Jimmah

The victim of the attack is bad because he defended himself in an 'animalistic' fashion against the repeated face-punching!

I'm hearing this from conservatives?

WOW.

We also know nothing about the victim who bit him, the man may have been in terror of his life, may have been diabetic or a hemophiliac, or had a neck injury...

We also know nothing about the victim who bit him, the man may have been in terror of his life, may have been diabetic or a hemophiliac, or had a neck injury... however, I find it most likely that fingerless attacker was grabbing with his left and punching with his right, otherwise it would be difficult to generate the force to sever a finger.

749 cronus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:12pm

For those linking to the updated Washington Times blog post... I am not sure the wording of the update on that post is accurate. I haven't read any other outlet reporting as of yet that in the statement Jones released this evening he specifically apologized for signing the petition (or even admitted to signing the petition) I think the blogger/reporter may be confusing his nonstatement statement on the petition with his actual apology for the other past remarks he's being criticized for.

The only other info I'm seeing I have posted up thread that anonymous sources MAY be laying the groundwork for Jones to admit that he did sign the petition.

750 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:17pm

re: #739 austin_blue

I recollect differently. Two convenience store owners within a mile of my house had to post signs on their doors saying that that they condemned the attacks. They were American citizens and they loved their country. They just happened to be Pakistanis at birth. There was intimidation all over the place. Ugly.

A lot of cab drivers in my city put flags in their cabs- folks didn't want to drive with them because they were foreigners.

751 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:18pm

re: #741 karmic_inquisitor

Hypodermic Needle Attacks Prompt Mass Protests In China's XinJiang

[Link: www.japantoday.com...]

/ no reports of finger biting or wrist slitting though.

A needle attack could be far worse than having a finger bitten off. Such needles could carry HIV or lethal poisons.

752 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:25pm

re: #734 Jimmah

The victim of the attack is bad because he defended himself in an 'animalistic' fashion against the repeated face-punching!

I'm hearing this from conservatives?

WOW.

That's right. Go take a look at the right wing blogs. Most of them are calling the batterer a hero tonight.

753 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:26pm

re: #730 Dark_Falcon

Two wrongs don't make a right.

In Glenn Beck's case, it took a whole lot more than 2.

754 realwest  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:54pm

re: #418 Killian Bundy

China's national flag to go up in White House on Sept 20


/lovely, too bad the USSR isn't still around


Gee I wonder if the Chinese will let us put up Old Glory in Tiannemen Square?! You know, reciprocity?
/

755 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:54pm

re: #721 JarHeadLifer

And this is different from the New York Time, how?

Because the NYT shills for the Democrats, so it's OK.

756 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:57pm

re: #737 Charles

He was voted into office by a majority of the citizens of America. I know you don't like this, but it's a fact. And yes, that means he has the power to appoint cabinet members and other officials.

Waaah.

The government has the power to govern? When did this commie-nazi subversion begin? What is happening to my dear sweet America?

/ Glenn Beck mode off

757 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:44:09pm

re: #727 Sharmuta

The sources confirming this are troofers.

Jones confirmed the signing himself, now we can argue (like he is) if he knew what he is doing, but there is no doubt that he admists to signing it.

"Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement and said he doesn't feel that way today and never has had such thoughts, although the 911Truth group claims to have personally confirmed support from all of their signers."

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

758 VioletTiger  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:44:16pm

Here is the questionnaire you would have to fill out for a job with the Obama administration.

Questions 61-63 are interesting.

759 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:44:26pm

re: #746 Slumbering Behemoth

Sorry, but if you initiate unprovoked violence, you get what you deserve. That reminds me of a story of a man who physically attacked a woman. He initiated the violence, and lost an eye for his trouble. Tough shit, I say. He had it coming.

Agreed. You start throwing punches, its your fault if you get maimed.

760 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:44:28pm

re: #733 Mich-again

It is not freedom of speech to scream in someone's face.

If you close in & scream that can have the elements of assault.

761 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:44:32pm

re: #744 DrNaughty

I recall the same, and also the large number of American Flags that appeared a gas stations and convenience stores as well...

Damn.

I liove in "redneck country" and saw no such thing.

I thought we were all racists.

The world is so confusing now.

/

762 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:44:49pm

Phillies beat the Giants again tonight 2-1

Magic number now at 22...

763 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:44:50pm

re: #757 Walter L. Newton

I'm going to go with cronus on this.

764 The Shadow Do  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:44:59pm

A couple of morons end up in a street scrimmage, one loses a finger, or an eye gouged out, or a leg broken or whatthehellever. This happens in every town, every night. Why is this news at all? Stupid, stupid, stupid. Why does anyone give a rip about any of these actors. Politics, Jerry Springer style is what it is. I don't pay attention to that crap either.

765 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:45:06pm

re: #745 opnion

The issue is a legal one. Did the old guy reasonably conclude that the Move On guy meant him violence & did he have the 'ability " to attack?
Politics are not realevant.


If the Move On guy yelled anything threatening that was assault, when the old guy hit him, that was battery.

766 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:45:18pm

re: #667 Slumbering Behemoth

Maybe they'll bite their pinkies off in solidarity. Morons.

Yeah, and mail them to Congress. It worked so well with those teabags.

I can see the ads on Red State's Trike Force now, and the rest of Greater Wingnuttia throughout the blogosphere...

"Help us give Congress the finger! Sever yours now and send it and your donation to us, and we'll make sure Congress gets the message!"

767 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:45:48pm

re: #747 wee fury

What? The little fingerless man is the one who did the punching.

I know - read my post again.

768 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:46:00pm

re: #761 OldLineTexan

Damn.

I liove in "redneck country" and saw no such thing.

I thought we were all racists.

The world is so confusing now.

/

I live in Atlanta, and at the time my manager gave us all these little American flags to put in our desk pen cups, or whatever.. There was flag-mania around here...

769 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:46:04pm

re: #763 Sharmuta

I'm going to go with cronus on this.

ANd just a few comment up thread, someone mentioned that the Washington Times quote may be inaccurate.

So, I suspect we wait, someone is going to get to the bottom of this.

770 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:46:07pm

re: #752 Charles

That's right. Go take a look at the right wing blogs. Most of them are calling the batterer a hero tonight.

Why would anyone do so? It OK to protest and work for change the way conservatives want it. It is clearly not OK to attack the other. It is bad when the SEIU does it, and it is bad when a conservative does it.

771 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:46:16pm

re: #704 USCMSNE

LINK

It's a little troubling that this website would defend Jones.

Hmmm...

Have you considered that some of us are just tired of the witch-trial approach (e.g., Glenn Beck) that finds people guilty first.

Or, have you considered that some of us prefer to see arguments about policies be made on the merits of those policies, rather than tagging them with hot-button terms (like Socialist!)?

I probably agree with Van Jones on about 50% to 2/3rds of what he has said. That he has been influenced by Marxian utopianism is regrettable, as is his likely agreeing to put his name on that petition for the sake of political expediency. One of the problems with being young is making decisions without knowing how they will come back to haunt you years later.

If today Van Jones is willing to denounce "trutherism", which apparently he has done, then that is a good thing.

772 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:46:26pm
773 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:46:36pm

re: #762 DrNaughty

Phillies beat the Giants again tonight 2-1

Magic number now at 22...

Nice.

774 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:46:56pm

I don't buy the punching story for an instance. The logical conclusion of all the various stories was six to 10 anti-Obamacare protesters were doing a protest march with signs. Left wing loon runs across street and put face into the old guy's. Old guy feels his space is invaded and pushes the angry shouter with an open hand right in face. Angry man bites finger in mouth and drops to the ground with finger.

775 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:47:17pm

re: #763 Sharmuta

I'm going to go with cronus on this.

Sorry, that's the comment I was referring to. We will see I suspect.

776 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:47:25pm

re: #731 avanti

As long as it's flown lower than the stars and stripes, a non issue.

It's not part of a State visit. It's granting a petition by Chinese groups to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the PRC.

/not something I like to see the White House getting down with, given Chinese communist history

777 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:47:36pm

re: #701 opnion


When the guy got in his face , that was the battery.

No, it's not. He called him and idiot, the idiot responded with violence, and lost part of his finger for his trouble. Tough shit.

778 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:47:44pm

re: #706 freetoken

But I thought the Europeans were those nasty socialists, not capitalists! Did we not hear over the past years how we ought to be different than the Europeans, and that Europe-loving politicians are evil?

You mean like Merkel? Or Sarko?

The Europeans have been leaving the socialist train station for some time and managed to not get into profligate spending back in February (which Obama tried to encourage them to do).

They know the no growth story too well and are tired of things like ceaseless transportation strikes to extort new public benefits and systemic unemployment of 20% for young workers. They've been there and they've done that. More than a few friends from there have commented on the paradox that we are moving left while they are moving right (economically).

Asia and Europe will lead the recovery. And unless we develop more exports we won't see much of one.

779 wee fury  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:47:46pm

re: #767 Jimmah

I know - read my post again.

I did after I posted. Am ashamed to say that I had another reading comprehension problem. :-( I apologize. I will now toddle off to bed in disgrace.

780 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:47:46pm

re: #734 Jimmah

The victim of the attack is bad because he defended himself in an 'animalistic' fashion against the repeated face-punching!

I'm hearing this from conservatives?

WOW.


The "Victim" provoked the attack. Severing a finger is disprortionate.

781 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:47:48pm

re: #773 Flyers1974

Nice.

I recall the 74 Stanley Cup also... Still can't believe that was the last one the Flyers won..

782 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:47:56pm

re: #721 JarHeadLifer

And this is different from the New York Time, how?

The New York Times isn't owned by the Moonies. You do understand the difference between editorial and reporting, don't you?

783 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:48:10pm

re: #774 pat

I don't buy the punching story for an instance. The logical conclusion of all the various stories was six to 10 anti-Obamacare protesters were doing a protest march with signs. Left wing loon runs across street and put face into the old guy's. Old guy feels his space is invaded and pushes the angry shouter with an open hand right in face. Angry man bites finger in mouth and drops to the ground with finger.

He ADMITTED ON NATIONAL TELEVISION that he punched the guy twice.

Good grief.

784 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:48:20pm

re: #758 VioletTiger

Here is the questionnaire you would have to fill out for a job with the Obama administration.

Questions 61-63 are interesting.

I've seen this doc in better form. This, though probably accurate, lacks credibility without a letterhead.

785 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:48:26pm

re: #768 DrNaughty

I live in Atlanta, and at the time my manager gave us all these little American flags to put in our desk pen cups, or whatever.. There was flag-mania around here...

I already had American and Texas flags on the wall in the high bay.

And I didn't initimidate my Muslim coworker, whose name happens to be Mohammed.

Again, DAMN.

786 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:48:31pm

re: #543 haakondahl

You know, the last time I saw funerals this messed-up, they were for Arafat and Ayatollah Khomeini.

By the ayatollah's funeral, the pallbearers lost their grip, bobbled the coffin and the corpse dropped out. Immediately mourners swarmed the corpse and many made off with souvenir body parts.

787 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:48:32pm

re: #749 cronus

For those linking to the updated Washington Times blog post... I am not sure the wording of the update on that post is accurate.


Agreed. The Wash Times is equating "past statements" as an admission that he signed the 9-11 truth petition. That does not seem to be the case. If he did sign it I'll be happy to condemn him but so far he hasn't admitted to it.

788 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:48:33pm

re: #780 opnion

The "Victim" provoked the attack. Severing a finger is disprortionate.

Boo hoo.

789 VioletTiger  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:49:05pm

re: #762 DrNaughty

Phillies beat the Giants again tonight 2-1

Magic number now at 22...

THAT explains why Mr Tiger was so cranky...

790 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:49:40pm

re: #769 Walter L. Newton

ANd just a few comment up thread, someone mentioned that the Washington Times quote may be inaccurate.

So, I suspect we wait, someone is going to get to the bottom of this.

They'll be confirmation in the AM.

791 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:49:44pm

re: #758 VioletTiger

Here is the questionnaire you would have to fill out for a job with the Obama administration.

Questions 61-63 are interesting.

Questions 64-67:

64. How do you feel about the underside of buses?

65. Have you ever played Unicorn rugby?

66. Have you, now or ever, been a member of any political machine other than the Chicago machine?

67. Do you look better than Mr. Emmanuel in tights?*

*Okay, that one is a bit over the top. I'll slap my hand.

792 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:50:02pm

re: #757 Walter L. Newton

Jones confirmed the signing himself, now we can argue (like he is) if he knew what he is doing, but there is no doubt that he admists to signing it.

"Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement and said he doesn't feel that way today and never has had such thoughts, although the 911Truth group claims to have personally confirmed support from all of their signers."

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]


Yeah, but you know he got caught& all, so he's like really sorry now & you know never supported what he signed.

793 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:50:12pm

Keep your hand out of other people's mouths and they won't bite off you fingers.
/very simple

794 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:50:19pm

re: #772 HelloDare

You were supposed to find proof of his trooferism- that's what the folks want to hear. Not the truth! You are pissing on the parade!

795 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:50:21pm

re: #780 opnion

The "Victim" provoked the attack. Severing a finger is disprortionate.

Even he got into a screaming match, that did not give the other guy an excuse to throw punches. And I'd argue that severing a finger might well have been the level of force needed to stop the attack.

796 realwest  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:50:25pm

re: #776 Killian Bundy
Hey Killian - see my # 754 above.

797 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:50:36pm

re: #783 Charles

I had not heard that, but if some asshole got too close to my face he would not get up. I am willing to be corrected on the facts as I have been out all day.

798 kcladderman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:50:37pm

re: #769 Walter L. Newton

ANd just a few comment up thread, someone mentioned that the Washington Times quote may be inaccurate.

So, I suspect we wait, someone is going to get to the bottom of this.

I would imagine if he did sign it, it was more a case of just signing something because it was anti Bush. I doubt he ever truly believed the attack was planned by Bush

799 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:50:41pm

re: #793 Killgore Trout

Keep your hand out of other people's mouths and they won't bite off you fingers.
/very simple

Maybe try not punching them...

800 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:51:03pm

re: #793 Killgore Trout

Keep your hand out of other people's mouths and they won't bite off you fingers.
/very simple

Exactly.

801 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:51:08pm

re: #793 Killgore Trout

Keep your hand out of other people's mouths and they won't bite off you fingers.
/very simple

Bobbiting 2.0

802 MJ  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:51:15pm

The New Face of Environmentalism

Van Jones renounced his rowdy black nationalism on the way toward becoming an influential leader of the new progressive politics.

By Eliza Strickland

November 2, 2005

[Link: www.eastbayexpress.com...]

803 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:51:25pm

re: #791 EmmmieG

Questions 64-67:

64. How do you feel about the underside of buses?

65. Have you ever played Unicorn rugby?

66. Have you, now or ever, been a member of any political machine other than the Chicago machine?

67. Do you look better than Mr. Emmanuel in tights?*

*Okay, that one is a bit over the top. I'll slap my hand.

Oh, a joke. heading back, humor good.

804 theheat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:51:37pm

Wow. I'm remanded to doing icky work stuff all day, come here, and it's a freakin' throwdown. WTF is going on around here?

805 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:52:02pm

re: #734 Jimmah

The victim of the attack is bad because he defended himself in an 'animalistic' fashion against the repeated face-punching!

I'm hearing this from conservatives?

WOW.

I know you're hearing it from some, but I am very skeptical about the "conservatives" part. It's not normally a conservative position to defend a violent attacker.

806 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:52:06pm

re: #796 realwest

Hey Killian - see my # 754 above.

Hello, Realwest! How was your day?

807 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:52:10pm
"While we do not have any more facts about what happened than what we saw in press accounts, MoveOn condemns violence in all forms," Hogue said. "We support the Ventura County sheriff's investigation into the situation. It is our firm hope that this event does not detract from the tens of thousands who were out peacefully making their voices heard for health care reform and a public option."

Getting in someone's face and screaming at them is violence. At Gitmo its downright torture.

808 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:52:18pm

re: #804 theheat

Wow. I'm remanded to doing icky work stuff all day, come here, and it's a freakin' throwdown. WTF is going on around here?

Separating anti-idiotarians from... others?

809 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:52:53pm

re: #804 theheat

WTF is going on around here?

Separating the wheat from the chaff. it has to be done on occasion.

810 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:53:05pm

I should watch or read news. Had a seminar all day then wife took me to movie. Julia/Julie. i recommend it for everyone.

811 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:53:13pm

re: #693 Charles

Hate mail now up to 21.

Please share the most entertaining ones.

812 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:53:20pm

This long hot summer is starting to wear on me...

What else are we going to fight about before the Holiday season is upon us?

813 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:53:30pm

re: #804 theheat

Wow. I'm remanded to doing icky work stuff all day, come here, and it's a freakin' throwdown. WTF is going on around here?

We're trying to put a finger on it.

814 theheat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:53:37pm

re: #808 Sharmuta

It's like playing jump rope, and trying to land smack dab in the middle of a hurricane. I think I might listen to classical music and let my head clear.

815 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:53:43pm

31 hate mails so far over the pinky guy and Van Jones.

816 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:53:48pm

re: #807 Mich-again

Getting in someone's face and screaming at them is violence. At Gitmo its downright torture.

LOL!

817 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:53:53pm

re: #325 slokat

Van Jones can express himself when he wants to...

Let's Rescue America

Class envy, racism, BDS, and nothing to hold the local, parish, and state government accountable for anything.

Yes, he certainly can express himself.

818 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:53:58pm

re: #810 pat

I should watch or read news. Had a seminar all day then wife took me to movie. Julia/Julie. i recommend it for everyone.

I love cooking but I hate chick flicks. Please advise.

819 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:00pm

re: #788 Coracle

Boo hoo.

Very mature. You must feel good about that.

820 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:02pm

re: #774 pat

I don't buy the punching story for an instance. The logical conclusion of all the various stories was six to 10 anti-Obamacare protesters were doing a protest march with signs. Left wing loon runs across street and put face into the old guy's. Old guy feels his space is invaded and pushes the angry shouter with an open hand right in face. Angry man bites finger in mouth and drops to the ground with finger.

Here it from the horse/ mouth.
[Link: hotair.com...]

821 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:03pm

re: #781 DrNaughty

I recall the 74 Stanley Cup also... Still can't believe that was the last one the Flyers won..

Who would have thought after their last cup that something called the Mighty Ducks would win the Cup before Philly won again. Or the Dallas Stars...etc...

822 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:06pm

Pinky hate.

823 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:14pm

Pinky Ackbar!

824 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:16pm

re: #815 Charles

31 hate mails so far over the pinky guy and Van Jones.

Yow. Is it approaching any kind of record?

825 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:19pm

re: #805 Slumbering Behemoth

I know you're hearing it from some, but I am very skeptical about the "conservatives" part. It's not normally a conservative position to defend a violent attacker.

That was before the spread of the Bad Craziness.

826 Pingemi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:23pm

I know the subject has now turned to the a different incident but I'd like to get back to the subject of the post and to my own situation.

Charles in comment #380 you suggested that I gave support in comment #369. I rebutted this in comment #507 and requested that you retract the suggestion that I was expressing support for the BNP and by implication support the BNP

I know that you have been distracted by the new topic of the altercation at the protest but I think the suggestion that I support a fascist party is important enough for us to get back to it.

I respectfully request you re-read the two comments in question and repeat my request that you retract your suggestion in comment #380 that I expressed support for the BNP and by implication support the BNP.

Or if you believe otherwise I'd prefer that you expressly accuse me of supporting them. That way I know where I stand with you.

827 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:31pm

re: #776 Killian Bundy

It's not part of a State visit. It's granting a petition by Chinese groups to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the PRC.

/not something I like to see the White House getting down with, given Chinese communist history

Well, yeah, except for their membership on the Security Council, and all that. Sometimes, my man, you just have to suck it up and accept the reality of the world at hand.

828 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:43pm

re: #819 opnion

Very mature. You must feel good about that.

Not really. I died a little inside when I posted that.

829 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:44pm

re: #815 Charles

I'll check back around 4am and see how the threads get run over with the late-night attacks... should be a good one tonight!

830 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:45pm

re: #824 Coracle

Yow. Is it approaching any kind of record?

Is that a 400% increase?

/

831 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:50pm

re: #782 austin_blue

The New York Times isn't owned by the Moonies. You do understand the difference between editorial and reporting, don't you?

You're claiming that the Sulzburger family isn't as dysfunctional as the Moonies? That might not be an argument you want to have. After AM Rosenthal left the paper in the mid-'80's, whatever barrier existed between the NY Times editorial board - to the extent one ever existed - completely dissolved.

If you can't discern the insanely leftist bent of Bill Keller and his DNC propagandists, I'm not sure you're actually reading the paper.

832 Cato  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:54pm

Extremist Jake Tapper weighs in:

[Link: twitter.com...]

833 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:55:04pm

re: #812 freetoken

This long hot summer is starting to wear on me...

What else are we going to fight about before the Holiday season is upon us?

Turkey recipes.

834 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:55:19pm

re: #824 Coracle

Yow. Is it approaching any kind of record?

That's a record. People really want to hate, and if you try to talk them out of it, the hate gets turned on you.

835 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:55:27pm

re: #805 Slumbering Behemoth

I know you're hearing it from some, but I am very skeptical about the "conservatives" part. It's not normally a conservative position to defend a violent attacker.

It's not normal- but these people have been whipped up into a frenzy by all the fear mongering. Not to mention the constant "revolution" meme. Some of these folks want violence- they're not thinking clearly about how devastating mass violence in this country would be, not just for us, but for other countries who depend on American support and/or commerce. Selfish bastards, if you ask me.

836 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:55:40pm

re: #832 Cato

"a source says"
/meh

837 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:55:49pm

re: #821 Flyers1974

Who would have thought after their last cup that something called the Mighty Ducks would win the Cup before Philly won again. Or the Dallas Stars...etc...

I do enjoy and support the Thrashers except when the Flyers come to Atlanta. but my sports heart belongs to the Phillies... I only go to the Braves games when they are in town.

838 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:56:24pm

re: #822 jaunte

Pinky hate.

All Pinky, no Brain

/narf

839 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:56:26pm

re: #818 Killgore Trout

Trout. No way is this a chick flick. it is about determination, cooking, blogs, a true story and fun

840 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:57:01pm

Unnamed sources close to the situation at hand say my Roomba doesn't trust any of you.

841 realwest  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:57:11pm

re: #806 Dark_Falcon
Hey DF - pretty crappy, actually - been feeling sick for a while.
OTOH, being 64 myself, hearing that this 65 year old man "defended himself" sorta lifted my spirits (but I don't agree with what he did; just that maybe some folks won't think they can get in someone's face because they are elderly older).

842 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:57:33pm

re: #840 Killgore Trout

Unnamed sources close to the situation at hand say my Roomba doesn't trust any of you.

Just keep that crazy thing away from my fingers.

843 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:57:48pm

re: #839 pat

Ok, maybe I'll look into it but I really hate chick flicks.
/really

844 The Shadow Do  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:57:54pm

re: #815 Charles

31 hate mails so far over the pinky guy and Van Jones.

Amazing people can get that worked up over this level of stupid. WWE level of dorkdom.

845 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:57:59pm

re: #584 freetoken

Is it true the employment measurements are a trailing indicator wrt recessions?

You mean like CO2 concentration is a trailing indicator of Gerbil Worming?

846 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:58:06pm

I just woke up a while ago. I haven't seen the video, I haven't read original sources.
Correct me if I'm wrong: one protester approaches the opposing group, in probably an atmosphere of agitation. One of the opposition group punches him twice in the face. The guy getting punched bites a finger off of the opposition puncher's hand.

My assessment:
The guy who "crossed lines" was taking a risk, but unless something more about his own conduct comes up, there's nothing wrong with this.
The guy who threw the punches deserved whatever he got. I am a firm believer that "he who starts shit gets shit".
The biter still did something that I find animalistic, but the puncher doesn't have an argument against him.

However, there's an interesting point to be made here.
What if the biter had shot instead? What if he had felt his life threatened and defended himself with a sidearm? In a way, I would have less a hard time accepting this in the microcosm, but this is not a microcosm. The context is that the biter first went over to confront the group of opposition (to whatever side his was), and if he had gone over there armed and started a confrontation, he would bear the responsibility. You don't get to feel threatened by somebody you advanced upon armed.

There is no such consideration for teeth. So this disproportionate response isn't as condemnable as an armed disproportionate response.

A pox on both of them.

My only point is that I do not feel the biter should escape criticism. If he had wrestled the other man and incidentally caused far worse injury, I would be more comfortable with that than with the grim determination and utter blood-thirst required to bite off a finger.

847 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:58:07pm

re: #834 Charles

HATEON™ TO THE KEYBOARD!

848 theheat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:58:08pm

If Obama has been president about nine months, and this is where we are, I hate to think where we'll be by the 2010 elections. If I recall, it took much longer for the BDS to get this widespread for Bush. And I don't know that anyone lost a finger over it.

Holy shit, this is bad.

849 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:58:30pm

re: #795 Dark_Falcon

Even he got into a screaming match, that did not give the other guy an excuse to throw punches. And I'd argue that severing a finger might well have been the level of force needed to stop the attack.

For god sake it was an old man vs a Move On thug.
By accounts the thug got into the old guys face , very threatening.
You think that biting off his finger is Ok?
If this much younger man had to do that to fend off this attack, he should turn in his Move On Thug card.

850 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:58:31pm

re: #842 Coracle

Roomba sez you got mighty pretty fingers.

851 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:58:37pm

ot: Can we tax these celebrities more since they adore are uber-wealthy and they blindly creepily adore Obama and all of Obama's wonderful big governmetn ideas?

852 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:59:03pm

By the way, people who believe strongly in crazy ideas like 9/11 Trutherism or creationism have been documented to mislead people into signing their idiotic petitions. I don't know what really happened here, but it's entirely possible this petition was presented as an innocuous call for more investigations into the 9/11 attacks -- specifically to get people to sign on who would otherwise turn and run if they knew the true agenda.

These kinds of groups pull this crap ALL the time.

853 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:59:18pm

re: #848 theheat

If Obama has been president about nine months, and this is where we are, I hate to think where we'll be by the 2010 elections. If I recall, it took much longer for the BDS to get this widespread for Bush. And I don't know that anyone lost a finger over it.

Holy shit, this is bad.

The congressional election next year will be very nasty wherever a Democrat is an incumbant...

854 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:59:24pm

re: #845 Alberta Oil Peon

I let LVQ handle AGW issues these days.


/PS It's not that difficult if you are willing to learn.

856 realwest  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:59:56pm

re: #827 austin_blue
Well ya know we're a member of the Security Council too - think the Chinese Communitsts will allow us to fly Old Glory in Tiannemen Square?

857 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:00:05pm

re: #848 theheat

If Obama has been president about nine months, and this is where we are, I hate to think where we'll be by the 2010 elections. If I recall, it took much longer for the BDS to get this widespread for Bush. And I don't know that anyone lost a finger over it.

Holy shit, this is bad.

We have 3 1/2 years left of this. And that's if we can present a decent candidate in 2012. We night have 7 1/2 years of this. It's not going to be pretty.

858 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:00:37pm

re: #848 theheat

If Obama has been president about nine months, and this is where we are, I hate to think where we'll be by the 2010 elections. If I recall, it took much longer for the BDS to get this widespread for Bush. And I don't know that anyone lost a finger over it.

Holy shit, this is bad.

Bush "stole" the election of 2000.

BDS was in full swing.

859 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:00:41pm

re: #780 opnion

The "Victim" provoked the attack. Severing a finger is disprortionate.

Bullshit. Calling someone an idiot is not grounds for a violent reaction. Saying it is is simply stupid.

Pathetic insults, even when shouted, are nothing but empty words, and they don't mean shit. You can call me every name in the book, and even make some up, and I wont take a swing at you. But if you put hands on me, you may end up losing more than a bit of finger.

Pinky-Man initiated the violence, and got what he deserved.

860 JacksonTn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:00:46pm

Swirling ... does that make me crazy? ... maybe I'm crazy ... maybe your crazy ...

Can't wait for the next chapter ...

861 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:00:49pm

re: #854 freetoken

I let LVQ handle AGW issues these days.

/PS It's not that difficult if you are willing to learn.

Great, the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

/

862 Cato  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:00:51pm

re: #836 Killgore Trout

Tapper has been pretty good, and it is on Twitter so space is limited. I doubt he would risk his job if the source were insubstantial. But you are right, not beyond a rd.

863 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:00:54pm

re: #827 austin_blue

Well, yeah, except for their membership on the Security Council, and all that. Sometimes, my man, you just have to suck it up and accept the reality of the world at hand.

/sorry, in the real world, communist China is not our buddy pal and we don't need to be throwing them a birthday party on the south lawn of the White House

864 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:00:56pm

re: #857 Sharmuta

We have 3 1/2 years left of this. And that's if we can present a decent candidate in 2012. We night have 7 1/2 years of this. It's not going to be pretty.

I hate to say this but it's getting hard to tell what's more annoying.

865 kcladderman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:08pm

re: #852 Charles

Thats is why I never sign one.

866 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:08pm

re: #843 Killgore Trout

so do I, lol. But when both Michael Medved gives it 4 stars as well as some liberal reviewers, you know you got a winner. Only dick in movie is the unseen Joe McCarthy. Imagine that. A compelling story with out a single villain.

867 swamprat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:10pm

Yeah. Everything is funny until someone loses a finger.

868 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:36pm

re: #857 Sharmuta

We have 3 1/2 years left of this. And that's if we can present a decent candidate in 2012. We night have 7 1/2 years of this. It's not going to be pretty.

My $$$ is on Romney. Not that he's the most attractive candidate, but that Republicans tend to nominate their last runner-up the next time around

Although J.C. Watts would be my first choice if he chooses to get back into Politics...

869 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:39pm

re: #852 Charles

By the way, people who believe strongly in crazy ideas like 9/11 Trutherism or creationism have been documented to mislead people into signing their idiotic petitions. I don't know what really happened here, but it's entirely possible this petition was presented as an innocuous call for more investigations into the 9/11 attacks -- specifically to get people to sign on who would otherwise turn and run if they knew the true agenda.

These kinds of groups pull this crap ALL the time.

A good point. And there are people (maybe Van Jones) who are stupid enough to sign something without really paying close attention to what they are signing.

870 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:44pm

re: #857 Sharmuta

We have 3 1/2 years left of this. And that's if we can present a decent candidate in 2012. We night have 7 1/2 years of this. It's not going to be pretty.

But the primaries for 2012 should be entertaining as all get out.

Have any states moved their primaries up to 2010 yet?

871 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:44pm

re: #867 swamprat

Yeah. Everything is funny until someone loses a finger.

And then it's hilarious.

872 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:50pm

re: #827 austin_blue

Well, yeah, except for their membership on the Security Council, and all that. Sometimes, my man, you just have to suck it up and accept the reality of the world at hand.

No, not really. We recognize China but that doesn't mean the United States of America has to celebrate the founding of a Communist country.

873 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:58pm

re: #867 swamprat

Yeah. Everything is funny until someone loses a finger.

Yah, I hate it when that happens.

874 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:59pm

I dedicate this song to Glenn Beck, Fox News, Alex Jones, and pushers of misinformation everywhere (and that includes most of the right wing blogosphere at the moment) (NSFW) :

875 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:02:00pm

re: #828 Coracle

Not really. I died a little inside when I posted that.

What can I do to make you feel better?

876 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:02:01pm

re: #855 FrogMarch

Hollywood heavyweights made their pledges to Barack Obama in the video below. Directed and edited by Demi Moore, it features celebrity pledges by Cameron Diaz, Hayden Panetierre, Laura Linney, Dakota Fanning, Jaime Pressley, Ashlee Simpson, Nicole Richie, Ashton Kutcher, Tobey Maguire, Diddy, Alyssa Milano, Marisa Tomei, Courteney Cox Arquette and David Arquette, and others.

/That's not creepy at all.

There may not be a college degree to be found amongst that entire bunch, expect for perhaps Linney. In fact, we might be surprised how many don't even have HS diplomas. But, they're famous so they're smart - or so they'd like us to believe.

878 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:03:03pm

re: #868 DrNaughty

My $$$ is on Romney. Not that he's the most attractive candidate, but that Republicans tend to nominate their last runner-up the next time around

Although J.C. Watts would be my first choice if he chooses to get back into Politics...

I'll he likes his fingers on his hands and his trash in his trashbins.

879 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:03:07pm

re: #831 JarHeadLifer

You're claiming that the Sulzburger family isn't as dysfunctional as the Moonies? That might not be an argument you want to have. After AM Rosenthal left the paper in the mid-'80's, whatever barrier existed between the NY Times editorial board - to the extent one ever existed - completely dissolved.

If you can't discern the insanely leftist bent of Bill Keller and his DNC propagandists, I'm not sure you're actually reading the paper.

Yes. Their reporting is almost exclusively fact-based with multiple sources. Have their been fuck-ups? Yes. But by and large, the reporting has been top-notch. If you don't like what they are reporting, that's a different story, so to speak. But the Right Wing bloviators, over the past several years, have been barking about *what* was published, not about its truth.

880 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:03:16pm

re: #855 FrogMarch


/That's not creepy at all.

I don't find it creep at all. I find it to be sad. This is standard practices - Hollywood stars and other notables want to feel good about themselves; and even more they want other people to feel good about feeling good for the star that is feeling good about themselves.

So they do these sort of stunts.

12 months later few of them will have come through. Those who do deserve kudos. The rest ... it was just a publicity stunt.

It is a form of justification-by-works without all the preaching about God and stuff.

881 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:03:43pm

re: #838 OldLineTexan

All Pinky, no Brain

/narf

They're haters with no brains.
Yes, haters with no brains.
Their national campaign
is easy to explain.
To prove their Paulian worth,
they'll keep on spreading Nirth.

They're dinky, and they give me pain, pain, pain, pain, pain, pain, pain, pain.
Barf.

882 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:03:53pm

re: #783 Charles

He ADMITTED ON NATIONAL TELEVISION that he punched the guy twice.

Good grief.

Who you gonna believe--pat, or your lyin' eyes?

883 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:04:14pm

re: #878 EmmmieG

I'll he likes his fingers on his hands and his trash in his trashbins.

I'll bet that he likes...

Fixed.

884 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:04:15pm

re: #794 Sharmuta

You were supposed to find proof of his trooferism- that's what the folks want to hear. Not the truth! You are pissing on the parade!

I just post what I find. Let the chips fall where they may. All it says is that in 2002 he put his name on a statement that called 9-11 an terrorist event. It is not proof that he didn't sign the 2004 document. I don't like the guy. If he resigns, Obama will probably replace him with somebody just as far to the left.

885 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:04:22pm

re: #875 opnion

What can I do to make you feel better?

Pull my finger?

No.

Shake. And agree to disagree on this.

886 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:04:33pm

The one thing more sickening than people making a guy out to be a hero for punching some loser in the face are the people who are OK with the Sharia justice system that says it OK to bite off an old man's finger in self defense cause the old guy deserved it I guess. Heck, once the old guy punched him, MoveOn could have plucked his eyeballs out to boot. /

The biter is a sick bastard. It isn't normal to be able to chomp down hard enough to bite off someone's finger. What kind of budding psychopath is that? Nevermind what a pansy ass he was for biting. He went out of his way to walk across the street to get in an old man's face to yell and call him an idiot. Then he ends up biting off the dude's finger.

Like I said, sick bastard.

887 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:04:39pm

re: #879 austin_blue

Yes. Their reporting is almost exclusively fact-based with multiple sources. Have their been fuck-ups? Yes. But by and large, the reporting has been top-notch. If you don't like what they are reporting, that's a different story, so to speak. But the Right Wing bloviators, over the past several years, have been barking about *what* was published, not about its truth.

Yes, the NYT is the finest birdcage liner going. Do you really believe this stuff?

888 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:04:50pm

re: #876 JarHeadLifer

There may not be a college degree to be found amongst that entire bunch, expect for perhaps Linney. In fact, we might be surprised how many don't even have HS diplomas. But, they're famous so they're smart - or so they'd like us to believe.

But our cult of personality culture has nothing but respect for the cult of hollywood.
They are filthy rich creepy ivory tower dwelling hypocrites.
Ick.

889 Pingemi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:04:53pm

re: #380 Charles

It just hit me that you might not have noticed my follow up posts because I didn't use the "reply" button on the post I objected to. If you missed my replies in posts #507 and 826 that might be my bad as this is a very busy thread.

If you did miss them I request you re-read my post #369 and my follow up posts and request again that you retract your suggestion in comment #380 that I expressed support for the BNP and by implication support the BNP.

Or if you believe that I do support the BNP and am in fact a fascist I'd prefer that you expressly say so.

890 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:04:58pm

re: #852 Charles

By the way, people who believe strongly in crazy ideas like 9/11 Trutherism or creationism have been documented to mislead people into signing their idiotic petitions. I don't know what really happened here, but it's entirely possible this petition was presented as an innocuous call for more investigations into the 9/11 attacks -- specifically to get people to sign on who would otherwise turn and run if they knew the true agenda.

These kinds of groups pull this crap ALL the time.

Yep. That's kind of how Richard Dawkins ended up appearing in a movie promoting creationism/id.

891 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:05:05pm

re: #856 realwest

Well ya know we're a member of the Security Council too - think the Chinese Communitsts will allow us to fly Old Glory in Tiannemen Square?

Yes. When a President visits, like Nixon or Bush pere, they did.

892 solomonpanting  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:06:01pm

re: #867 swamprat

Yeah. Everything is funny until someone loses a finger.

Welcome to the digital age.

893 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:06:02pm

re: #886 Mich-again

The one thing more sickening... are the people who are OK with the Sharia justice system that says it OK to bite off an old man's finger in self defense cause the old guy deserved it I guess.

Wow...

894 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:06:35pm

Here's a classic in the hate mail genre:

You are now a first class idiot, with a dismal following of empty
headed asskissers.

BTW, I also know the names of all your personal sock puppet accounts
that you post with.

I will take great pride in exposing you for the fraud you are.

You're all my sock puppets! Bwahahaha! There's only one person here in reality!

895 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:06:45pm

re: #884 HelloDare

I just post what I find. Let the chips fall where they may. All it says is that in 2002 he put his name on a statement that called 9-11 an terrorist event. It is not proof that he didn't sign the 2004 document. I don't like the guy. If he resigns, Obama will probably replace him with somebody just as far to the left.

That's what fact checking is. We're supposed to follow the evidence, not our own biases.

896 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:06:46pm

re: #879 austin_blue

Yes. Their reporting is almost exclusively fact-based with multiple sources.

You should email me. I've got some real estate you might be interested in.

897 Edge  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:06:46pm

Why in the world would anyone be skeptical that Van Jones signed this petition? Given the guy's radical and crackpot views, it would surprise me if he was NOT a truther.

898 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:07:04pm

re: #880 freetoken

I don't find it creep at all. I find it to be sad. This is standard practices - Hollywood stars and other notables want to feel good about themselves; and even more they want other people to feel good about feeling good for the star that is feeling good about themselves.

Mrs Naughty and I have a personal friend (she and her husband are our neighbors actually) who are notables in Country Music. We get along well with them for years, because basically neither my wife and I are Country Music fans, and we see them for who they are when they're not on stage. We've met some of their friends that are also in the music business because they do much of their recording at home

The fact is that they prefer to keep out of the limelight except when they're on tour or on television, and live as normal, quiet life as they can.

899 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:07:06pm

re: #859 Slumbering Behemoth

Bullshit. Calling someone an idiot is not grounds for a violent reaction. Saying it is is simply stupid.

Pathetic insults, even when shouted, are nothing but empty words, and they don't mean shit. You can call me every name in the book, and even make some up, and I wont take a swing at you. But if you put hands on me, you may end up losing more than a bit of finger.

Pinky-Man initiated the violence, and got what he deserved.


I'll see your bullshit. In your rant, you conveniently neglect to factor in that the thug got in an elderly mans face, real close up & threatening.
You willfully just ignore that. That is assault, you might not like that , but that is not relevant, so you post is just bullshit.

900 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:07:25pm

re: #894 Charles

Here's a classic in the hate mail genre:

You're all my sock puppets! Bwahahaha! There's only one person here in reality!

There are on to us...er...you...me...?

901 JacksonTn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:07:40pm

For albusteve ... ya'll keep him in your prayers ...

just another dream ...

Good Night ...

902 meh130  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:07:46pm

re: #5 Charles

It's extremely common for 9/11 Truthers, creationists, and anti-AGW groups to add prominent people's names to lists like this without their knowledge.

Van Jones was "prominent" in 2004? Maybe within the relatively narrow Berkley communist circles, he was prominent, but not in the larger public. Van Jones did not become "prominent" until after he was appointed GreenJobsCzar(tm) and even then only after going into full frontal flake mode.

Nobody knew Van Jones from Van Morrison until a couple of months ago.

Perhaps the Truthers put Van Jone's name on the 2004 list this year.

A more likely story is Van was at some anti-Bushitler protest in Bezerkely and there were truthers running around with clipboards and petitions, and Van signed it without knowing what it was.

903 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:07:46pm

re: #897 Edge

Why in the world would anyone be skeptical that Van Jones signed this petition? Given the guy's radical and crackpot views, it would surprise me if he was NOT a truther.

There's another vote in favor of believing 9/11 Truthers.

904 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:07:46pm

re: #872 Wendya

No, not really. We recognize China but that doesn't mean the United States of America has to celebrate the founding of a Communist country.

It's common diplomatic courtesy for God's sake! What do you want us to do? Have the Chief of Protocol from the State Department take a dump on the tarmac as the Chinese contingent arrives? Don't be silly!

905 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:07:50pm

re: #894 Charles

Here's a classic in the hate mail genre:

You're all my sock puppets! Bwahahaha! There's only one person here in reality!

Wow. You type fast. Really, really fast. How did you post 1,000 times in a half-hour on that one press-conference thread?

906 calcajun  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:07:50pm

re: #892 solomonpanting

It's all fun and games until my foot goes up your ass.

-Veronica Mars

907 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:08:09pm

re: #876 JarHeadLifer

There may not be a college degree to be found amongst that entire bunch, expect for perhaps Linney. In fact, we might be surprised how many don't even have HS diplomas. But, they're famous so they're smart - or so they'd like us to believe.

I wonder if this video is viewed in schools? Our new educational standards. Forget math, science, - we must all support "the won".

908 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:08:36pm

re: #869 Walter L. Newton

A good point. And there are people (maybe Van Jones) who are stupid enough to sign something without really paying close attention to what they are signing.

Don'y you think that they solicited kindred spirits?

909 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:08:39pm

re: #828 Coracle

Not really. I died a little inside when I posted that.

Feel free to post more of it.

910 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:09:04pm

re: #869 Walter L. Newton

A good point. And there are people (maybe Van Jones) who are stupid enough to sign something without really paying close attention to what they are signing.

Also who knows what he signed, if in fact he signed something, could have been worded as an innocent sounding petition to benefit the victims.

Beyond that, conspiracy theories in general seem prolific in the AA community, based upon personal anecdotal evidence, does not make them bad people.

911 Ojoe  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:09:04pm

On this general topic: I'm an architect. I've designed solar buildings. I was in college in the 1970s during an earlier "solar & ecological" time. Back then the interest was more direct, hands on. Now it is politicized, and I hate to see it politicized. Solar & sustainable belong to everyone. They should be happy things.

Now the most questionable types circle around them like vultures.

It is no good.

May they go away.

912 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:09:13pm
913 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:09:19pm

re: #909 haakondahl

Feel free to post more of it.

I knew you cared.

914 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:09:37pm

re: #908 opnion

Don'y you think that they solicited kindred spirits?

I was being sarcastic again.

915 Yankee Zionist  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:09:40pm

I looked at the list of people who signed the document. I am shocked by some of the other signatures. These are some fairly prominent people. Michelle Shocked for instance. Michael Lerner for another. And Rosemary Radford Ruether. Boston City Councilor Chuck Turner -- all names I recognize from other contexts. Then there is David Ray Griffin, author of the book published by Westminster John Knox Press that asserted the 9/11 was a false flag operation.

These are all people who are in the public sphere, who protect their reputations and make explicit decisions about who they affiliate with.

Is there anyone else on that list who has denied having signed it, who has said their name was added to the list without their approval?

If there were, I'd have an easier time believing Van Jones' name was put on the list fraudulently.

I know Charles has argued that Truthers lie and make this stuff up. But if he is the first guy to complain, and only complained a few years after the fact, I'd have a tough time believing he didn't sign it. I'm having a tough time believing his denial. Apparently, his name has been on the list for five years, and this is his first denial,

I think he signed the statement.

916 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:09:46pm

re: #905 EmmmieG

Wow. You type fast. Really, really fast. How did you post 1,000 times in a half-hour on that one press-conference thread?

That's just how eeevil I am. The true depths of my diabolical abilities would stun the world.

917 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:10:02pm

re: #887 Desert Dog

Yes, the NYT is the finest birdcage liner going. Do you really believe this stuff?

Considering the other fish-wrap out there, yes. Their editorial is far left, but the reporting is killer bee. And beautifully written.

918 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:10:04pm

re: #889 Pingemi

It just hit me that you might not have noticed my follow up posts because I didn't use the "reply" button on the post I objected to. If you missed my replies in posts #507 and 826 that might be my bad as this is a very busy thread.

If you did miss them I request you re-read my post #369 and my follow up posts and request again that you retract your suggestion in comment #380 that I expressed support for the BNP and by implication support the BNP.

Or if you believe that I do support the BNP and am in fact a fascist I'd prefer that you expressly say so.

For gibberish, press 1.
For English, press 2.

919 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:10:10pm

Hey Night Lizards!

I don't know about this whole Van Jones thing. I keep having these mental images of Van Johnson doing something with the stock exchange. I can't reconcile the problem.

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

920 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:10:24pm

re: #913 Coracle

I knew you cared.

I can't quit you.

921 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:10:39pm

re: #912 HelloDare

All of Charles' sock puppets exposed.

There's Stinky in the bottom right corner! busted.

922 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:10:42pm

re: #914 Walter L. Newton

I was being sarcastic again.


Damn, I hate it when I miss it.

923 calcajun  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:10:57pm

re: #892 solomonpanting

Welcome to the digital age.

Post-digital, to be precise. Of course, we won't knuckle under to this abuse.

924 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:11:12pm

re: #896 JarHeadLifer

You should email me. I've got some real estate you might be interested in.

Nice you didn't quote the next sentence.

Agenda!!

925 realwest  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:11:13pm

re: #891 austin_blue
Ah, see I didn't see that the "president" of China was making a state visit - maybe we BOTH ought to go back to Killian's post #418 and read the report from the China Paper and see where it says that.

926 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:11:13pm

re: #879 austin_blue

But the Right Wing bloviators, over the past several years, have been barking about *what* was published, not about its truth.

I do seem to recall getting a tad upset with them when they published an illustrated article that pointed out the vulnerable points in the Army's body armor. I felt that was just a little irresponsible.

Could be because my oldest son was in Iraq wearing that armor.

Yes, I was unhappy about that article.

927 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:11:14pm

re: #905 EmmmieG

Wow. You type fast. Really, really fast. How did you post 1,000 times in a half-hour on that one press-conference thread?

You know the million monkey bit. Charles does it with hamsters.

928 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:11:14pm

re: #915 Yankee Zionist

I looked at the list of people who signed the document. I am shocked by some of the other signatures. These are some fairly prominent people. Michelle Shocked for instance. Michael Lerner for another. And Rosemary Radford Ruether. Boston City Councilor Chuck Turner -- all names I recognize from other contexts. Then there is David Ray Griffin, author of the book published by Westminster John Knox Press that asserted the 9/11 was a false flag operation.

These are all people who are in the public sphere, who protect their reputations and make explicit decisions about who they affiliate with.

Is there anyone else on that list who has denied having signed it, who has said their name was added to the list without their approval?

If there were, I'd have an easier time believing Van Jones' name was put on the list fraudulently.

I know Charles has argued that Truthers lie and make this stuff up. But if he is the first guy to complain, and only complained a few years after the fact, I'd have a tough time believing he didn't sign it. I'm having a tough time believing his denial. Apparently, his name has been on the list for five years, and this is his first denial,

I think he signed the statement.

No kidding!

929 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:11:25pm

re: #859 Slumbering Behemoth

Bullshit. Calling someone an idiot is not grounds for a violent reaction. Saying it is is simply stupid.


I wasn't there and I didn't see it but if one person rushes up to a stranger, gets right in their face and starts screaming/yelling at them, that is considered an assault and hitting them may not be out of legal bounds as long as that person felt personally threatened.

Merely walking up to someone and calling them an idiot isn't grounds for a physical response.

930 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:11:40pm

re: #837 DrNaughty

I do enjoy and support the Thrashers except when the Flyers come to Atlanta. but my sports heart belongs to the Phillies... I only go to the Braves games when they are in town.

Phillies going to the WS this year?

931 gulfloafer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:11:46pm

re: #912 HelloDare
American Thinker has a sock puppet cartoon today as well.

932 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:12:14pm

When Charles created me as his sock puppet he lost control of me to Skynet.
Bwahahahahaha

933 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:12:14pm

re: #930 Flyers1974

Phillies going to the WS this year?

They are going to win it..

934 The False God  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:12:17pm

re: #891 austin_blue

This isn't for a state visit. This is for celebrating the founding of a nation by non-state groups. Think the PRC will celebrate our 300 years? If we're even around, of course...

I don't like it. An American flag should fly. Not any other. Not even of a real ally.

935 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:12:35pm

re: #915 Yankee Zionist

I looked at the list of people who signed the document. I am shocked by some of the other signatures. These are some fairly prominent people. Michelle Shocked for instance. Michael Lerner for another. And Rosemary Radford Ruether. Boston City Councilor Chuck Turner -- all names I recognize from other contexts. Then there is David Ray Griffin, author of the book published by Westminster John Knox Press that asserted the 9/11 was a false flag operation.

And that doesn't make you question the circumstances? You'd rather believe the Truthers?

936 RightOnTheLeftCoast  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:12:37pm

re: #637 Charles

I don't agree. Zombie was not correct in this one. There is absolutely no evidence that Van Jones is a 9/11 Truther, apart from his name being listed on a Truther website.

None.

Certainly the word of Troofers isn't worth the proverbial bucket of warm spit as a source.

However, Zombie did allude to first-hand observations of Jones at Troofer events... perhaps an offline communication with Zombie might be in order to get a feel for the nature of said observations? If nothing else, it would be a source that isn't quoting or referencing the untrustable troofer site.

937 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:12:52pm

re: #894 Charles

I resent being called a dismal asskisser!

938 slokat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:00pm

I am not a sock puppet!

...as if there was any doubt.

939 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:03pm

re: #921 FrogMarch

There's Stinky in the bottom right corner! busted.

You mean, this guy?

940 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:04pm

re: #916 Charles

That's just how eeevil I am. The true depths of my diabolical abilities would stun the world.

Richard L Kent accused me of being you. But then, he does that with just about everyone.

941 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:16pm

re: #917 austin_blue

Considering the other fish-wrap out there, yes. Their editorial is far left, but the reporting is killer bee. And beautifully written.

Their reporting is well written, but it also slants to the left more than a certain Tower in Pisa...but, almost all print media does, so why should they be different?

942 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:22pm

re: #906 calcajun

It's all fun and games until my foot goes up your ass.

-Veronica Mars

Great show. I hope they make a Veronica Mars movie, as Kirstin Bell really had a great character in Veronica.

943 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:28pm

re: #937 Van Helsing

I resent being called a dismal asskisser!

Hate mail does tend to have colorful phrases in it...

944 solomonpanting  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:41pm

re: #906 calcajun

It's all fun and games until my foot goes up your ass.

-Veronica Mars

Sorta puts "ass kicking" in a new light, or not, since that's where the sun don't shine.

945 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:56pm

re: #914 Walter L. Newton

I was being sarcastic again.

You know Walter, sarc tags work.

946 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:14:01pm

re: #936 RightOnTheLeftCoast

Certainly the word of Troofers isn't worth the proverbial bucket of warm spit as a source.

However, Zombie did allude to first-hand observations of Jones at Troofer events... perhaps an offline communication with Zombie might be in order to get a feel for the nature of said observations? If nothing else, it would be a source that isn't quoting or referencing the untrustable troofer site.

Zombie said he was a hard leftist, not that he was a troofer. I am inclined to believe Zombie, although I would be disinclined to believe the troofers, especially if this is the only piece of evidence.

947 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:14:30pm

re: #936 RightOnTheLeftCoast

Certainly the word of Troofers isn't worth the proverbial bucket of warm spit as a source.

However, Zombie did allude to first-hand observations of Jones at Troofer events... perhaps an offline communication with Zombie might be in order to get a feel for the nature of said observations? If nothing else, it would be a source that isn't quoting or referencing the untrustable troofer site.

We know how much Zombie lies here and on the Zombie blog. Zombie can't be trusted.
///

948 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:14:33pm

re: #935 Charles

And that doesn't make you question the circumstances? You'd rather believe the Truthers?

The Bad Craziness has spread to LGF! Please, Charles, make it stop!

949 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:14:36pm
950 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:14:40pm

re: #894 Charles

Here's a classic in the hate mail genre:

You're all my sock puppets! Bwahahaha! There's only one person here in reality!

Well, that explains all the lint around here and the fact that my other half is lost in either the dryer or the washing machine...

951 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:14:47pm

re: #939 HelloDare

You mean, this guy?

yeah!

952 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:14:56pm

re: #945 CyanSnowHawk

You know Walter, sarc tags work.

Not as well when I am trying to make a point.

953 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:15:15pm

re: #936 RightOnTheLeftCoast

However, Zombie did allude to first-hand observations of Jones at Troofer events...

No, zombie did not say that.

954 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:15:27pm

re: #937 Van Helsing

I resent being called a dismal asskisser!

Yes, you are an incredible asskisser!

955 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:15:34pm

re: #852 Charles

but it's entirely possible this petition was presented as an innocuous call for more investigations into the 9/11 attacks -- specifically to get people to sign on who would otherwise turn and run if they knew the true agenda.

There are two possibilities, either he signed it or someone else signed his name to it without him knowing.

Now if he signed it, then I don't think it matters much how the petition was specifically worded. Its no secret the wild conspiracies that were sprouting back then and what the motivation behind the petition was. If the guy had any sense at all he would have stayed a mile away from that garbage. He gets no free pass for saying he didn't realize what it was.

956 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:15:43pm

OFFS!

957 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:15:47pm

re: #946 EmmmieG

Zombie said he was a hard leftist, not that he was a troofer. I am inclined to believe Zombie, although I would be disinclined to believe the troofers, especially if this is the only piece of evidence.

Given that there was no hint of Trooferism in the STORM summation pdf, it's likely the troofers are not telling the truth.

958 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:15:50pm

re: #899 opnion

I'll see your bullshit. In your rant, you conveniently neglect to factor in that the thug got in an elderly mans face, real close up & threatening.
You willfully just ignore that