Glenn Beck, Ron Paul, and the Truthers

Weird • Views: 6,249

Stop the presses!

LGF reader Killgore Trout has discovered a truly shocking piece of evidence, at the meetup website for the April 15th Tea Party in San Antonio, Texas: Glenn Beck @ San Antonio Tea Party @ the ALAMO - We Are Change San Antonio 911 Truth (San Antonio, TX).

This is so earth-shattering, I’m not sure I should reveal it, although I guess I already kind of did. Perhaps I should wait and give Glenn Beck a chance to respond first.

Waiting … waiting …

OK, that’s enough time.

While Glenn Beck broadcast his radio show live from the event … wait, I’m almost overcome with astonishment, I need to get myself together before I start weeping … right in front of Beck and the other Tea Partiers, we find …

9/11 Truthers!!!

Does Glenn Beck think the US government staged the 9/11 attacks?

But wait, there’s even more evidence. A very frequent guest on the Glenn Beck show is Congressman Ron Paul, and here is Ron Paul telling a Truther that he would speak out about the “truth about 9/11,” except that he “can’t handle the controversy.”

Youtube Video

And there’s still more!

Ron Paul’s campaign for President was absolutely lousy with 9/11 Truthers, and he appears frequently on the radio show of Alex Jones — one of the most notorious Truthers in America!

Ron Paul’s Helicopter of Troof
Ron Paul Courts the Troofers Again

I rest my case! Why does Glenn Beck hate America?

Disclaimer: LGF accepts no responsibility for mental whiplash caused by the above satirical post.

UPDATE at 9/5/09 12:27:26 pm:

Please note: I ladled on the sarcasm pretty thick in this post, but there’s a very serious point here too: Glenn Beck’s connections to Truthers are far more extensive and direct than Van Jones’.

It’s not just Ron Paul. I didn’t even bring up the fact that Beck frequently lets Judge Andrew Napolitano host his show, when Napolitano is a close friend of Truther Alex Jones.

Jump to bottom

715 comments
1 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:45:06am

Wheee!

2 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:45:31am

I think he's an obvious plant by the CFR/Trilateralist faction of the Shape-shifting reptilians to undermine and co-opt anti-Obama opposition movements.

If he's not, explain how, if he were, he'd act any differently.

3 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:46:40am

re: #1 Killgore Trout

Could you re-post your link to the shape-shifting reptillian alien poster?

4 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:46:45am

You could use a jpg of the red carpet from the nirth cert punk video to indicate this sort of sarc trap.

5 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:47:06am

"Expose the Reptilians!"

I think that's a drawing of Charles on the right.

6 BignJames  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:47:11am

Isn't Beck peddling a new book?...some thing about talking to idiots?

7 jcm  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:47:32am

The troof is out there.

But it doesn't mean what you think it does.

8 SteveC  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:47:35am

Oh man, Charles did not go there!

9 John Neverbend  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:48:05am

Charles Johnson 10 - Doug Piranha 0.

10 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:48:30am

Hmmm... Beck's ducking the issue so far. GUILTY!

11 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:48:32am

Popcorn anyone?

12 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:48:41am

Shrapnel from this thread will probably destroy my old 21" CRT. Fortunately, MicroCenter has good deals at the moment on LCD monitors.

13 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:48:58am
Why does Glenn Beck hate America?

He even works in Rockefeller Center!

1211 Avenue of the Americas (Originally the Celanese Building, sometimes known as the News Corp. Building)

Home of commies and fascists and progressives who hate America!

14 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:49:15am

Beck has yet to deny the allegations.

15 jaunte  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:50:18am

Here's a guy from the same link with an "end the Fed" sign, with Infowars and TrueWorldHistory.com stickers as added bonuses.

[Link: www.meetup.com...]

16 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:50:55am

re: #9 John Neverbend

Charles Johnson 10 - Doug Piranha 0.

Spiny Norman.

Dinsdale!

17 subsailor68  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:51:03am

I think you're being a little unfair Charles. You didn't put up a Dumbsday Countdown Clock like Beck did for the White House!! Ya know - have it click down on the screen while you post a video of your face with tears in your eyes...or even just your mouth, with your lips quivering, praying that Beck will call you before you're forced to go public with this incredible story!!

Ah, never mind. Go for it!!

:-)

p.s. Not sure if it's the most sarcastic post, but it sure is a hoot!

18 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:51:13am

re: #5 Killgore Trout

"Expose the Reptilians!"

I think that's a drawing of Charles on the right.

That site's sponsor is Alex Jones' INFOWARS. Plainfuckingnuts.

19 jcm  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:51:53am

re: #12 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Shrapnel from this thread will probably destroy my old 21" CRT. Fortunately, MicroCenter has good deals at the moment on LCD monitors.

You mean you don't have the official LGF monitor?

20 Ziggy  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:52:28am

Touche, excellent point. (and it may in fact be the most sarcastic post evah) I may have been near a troofer too once. Oh no, am I one?

21 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:52:54am

re: #18 MandyManners

That site's sponsor is Alex Jones' INFOWARS. Plainfuckingnuts.

Yeah! Don't they know "Alex Jones" is one of THEM?

22 SpaceJesus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:53:09am

the best way to get right-wing GOP support for the "truth movement" is to go around telling them that there is no way brown people could ever have pulled a fast one on 'merica.

23 SteveC  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:53:11am

re: #17 subsailor68

I think you're being a little unfair Charles. You didn't put up a Dumbsday Countdown Clock like Beck did for the White House!!

Charles probably doesn't own a donkey and i bet he doesn't own a saddle, but everyone wants to ride his ass!

/Just kidding, subsailor!

24 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:53:54am

re: #19 jcm

You mean you don't have the official LGF monitor?

Thanks!
I'm glad to finally have a procurement planar can trust.

25 John Neverbend  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:54:48am

re: #16 Guanxi88

Spiny Norman.

Dinsdale!

I've seen grown men rip their own heads off rather than go round to talk to Doug Charles.

26 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:54:52am

re: #21 Guanxi88

Yeah! Don't they know "Alex Jones" is one of THEM?

ssshhh

27 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:55:34am

re: #22 spacejesus

Fuck you.

28 jcm  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:55:39am

re: #24 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Thanks!
I'm glad to finally have a procurement planar can trust.

Don't forget the finders fee!

29 John Neverbend  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:55:42am

re: #20 Ziggy

Touche, excellent point. (and it may in fact be the most sarcastic post evah) I may have been near a troofer too once. Oh no, am I one?

It's not contagious without a lobotomy.

30 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:55:43am

re: #25 John Neverbend

I've seen grown men rip their own heads off rather than go round to talk to Doug Charles.

He nailed my head to the floor once. I mean, he had to, didn't he? Code of honor and all that.

31 SteveC  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:56:37am

Either I've let the Trooofers hypnotize me, or I feel a Saturday afternoon nap coming on.

/stretch out on the couch near the altar of football TV!

32 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:56:45am

MJ embedded this hilarious refutation of Beck on the overnight. It's Keith Olbermann, but it's actually pretty effin funny.

Youtube Video
33 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:57:06am

re: #31 SteveC

Either I've let the Trooofers hypnotize me, or I feel a Saturday afternoon nap coming on.

/stretch out on the couch near the altar of football TV!

Don't fall asleep That's when they come and get you, replacing you with a Replicant.

34 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:57:26am

re: #28 jcm

Don't forget the finders fee!

It says they'll provide a free sample !

/ *grin* ... been there, got those

35 SpaceJesus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:57:31am

re: #27 MandyManners

Fuck you.

hey, not my fault most racists hang out on the right fringe

36 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:57:46am

re: #27 MandyManners

Fuck you.

twice

and NOT in bed!

37 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:58:02am

re: #30 Guanxi88

He nailed my head to the floor once. I mean, he had to, didn't he? Code of honor and all that.

I'd broken the unwritten law!

38 SteveC  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:58:50am

re: #33 Guanxi88

Don't fall asleep That's when they come and get you, replacing you with a Replicant.

They've come for me before, but then they check me out and leave me alone. I'm poor, I'm ugly, and my momma dresses me funny.

39 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:58:53am

re: #37 Van Helsing

I'd broken the unwritten law!

But, because you had company coming over, he just crewed your pelvis to a cakestand.

Hilarious, and, more and more, a reliable instrument for measuring reality.

40 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:58:59am

Here's their theme song.

41 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:59:37am

re: #35 SpaceJesus

hey, not my fault most racists hang out on the right fringe

The left has their own racism - "you're not good enough, you need our help"

42 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:00:22am

re: #35 SpaceJesus

And yet, here you are, cheek by galactic jowl with a whole mess of righties. Does this say anything about you, or were you just looking to make a cheap swipe to justify the moral superiority of an undergrad with a quasi-blasphemous nic?

43 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:00:25am

re: #41 Van Helsing

The left has their own racism - "you're not good enough, you need our help"

I was just typing something similar,, thanks

44 Ziggy  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:00:42am

re: #29 John Neverbend

It's not contagious without a lobotomy.


Phew!

45 keithgabryelski  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:01:24am

re: #35 SpaceJesus

hey, not my fault most racists hang out on the right fringe

Whether that is true or not, it seems you have a fetish with spitting in the eye of LGF readers when you post your appeals to ridicule.

46 Pianobuff  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:01:25am

In case RacerX moved on to this thread, I'm re-posting a reply to an earlier question he had. It seems just as appropriate here...

re: #198 Racer X

I'm perplexed.

Troofers were anti-Bush. They claimed it was a government conspiracy BY BUSH to take over America. Now there are idiots out there who claim that 9/11 was a government conspiracy to allow OBAMA to take over America?

Or did I miss a dose of my meds?

Special meds are needed to discern the "two sides of the same coin" crowd. They believe that (pick one or more from menu: Reptilians, Rothchilds, Illuminati, Trilateral Commission, Bilderbergers, Council on Foreign Relations, Other unnamed Jewish Bankers, European Royalty, Descendants of Sumerians, FreeMasons, Jesuits, Rosicrucians, or other Esotericists [of which I believe Charles was recently accused of being], The World Bank, The Federal Reserve, WTO, Clintons, Bushes, Other Bohemian Grovers, Nazis, Jews, Shape-shifters, Rupert Murdoch, George Soros, Karl Rove, New Agers, The Vatican, "Giants" spoken of in the Book of Enoch, "The Media" --- Collectively known as the New World Order) are really calling the shots.

They figure out who is going to be in political power to advance their agenda which is: reduction of the world population, enslavement of the world population, preparation of the planet for aliens, other exo-political misadventures.

The techniques they use are: Chemtrails, engineered viruses that will wipe out the population, engineered viruses that will not wipe out the population but manufactures a crisis that allows other more dastardly deeds to be done, vaccinations (one of the dastardly deeds), fluoridated water, mind control, global currency, regional currency, de-valued currency, The New York Times, The Washington Times, MSNBC, Fox News, genetic manipulation, false information (such as a faked moon landing), moon bases that were visited during moon landings, getting figureheads into power (Clinton, Bush, Obama) through any means (Ross Perot, Election Fraud, Fake Birth Certificate corresponding to the previous order of named leaders), false flag operations (9/11, economic crisis).

All of this is believed concurrently and with a straight face.

I hope this clears up your confusion.

47 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:02:05am

re: #41 Van Helsing

The left has their own racism - "you're not good enough, you need our help"

Not to mention ... where does one put James Cone and his ilk?

48 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:02:09am

Heh. I'm already getting hate mail about this post. They think it's serious.

49 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:03:02am

re: #42 Guanxi88

And yet, here you are, cheek by galactic jowl with a whole mess of righties. Does this say anything about you, or were you just looking to make a cheap swipe to justify the moral superiority of an undergrad with a quasi-blasphemous nic?

Shhh. We're not supposed to know what goes on in college. You know, with none of us having gone.

50 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:03:41am

re: #48 Charles

Anyone call you a 'fussbudget?'

51 SpaceJesus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:03:54am

re: #41 Van Helsing

The left has their own racism - "you're not good enough, you need our help"


yeah, the only difference is one is for bringing people up who have been systematically kept down by the state and society for generations and the other is about hating people because of the color of the their skin. yes, clearly affirmative action and hate are the same thing. gold star for you.

52 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:04:24am

re: #48 Charles

Heh. I'm already getting hate mail about this post. They think it's serious.

The fine print disclaimer was a nice touch!

53 jcm  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:04:27am

re: #48 Charles

Heh. I'm already getting hate mail about this post. They think it's serious.

Do share.

54 Ziggy  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:04:55am

re: #48 Charles

Heh. I'm already getting hate mail about this post. They think it's serious.

Are you surprised?

55 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:05:24am

re: #48 Charles

Heh. I'm already getting hate mail about this post. They think it's serious.

There's no accounting for idiocy.

56 pat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:05:30am

OT
Latest On Indonesian Islamic Terrorists: The Dismemberment

[Link: www.strategypage.com...]

57 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:05:32am

The Truther site Charles links to is run by Matthew Medina who is very involved in the Tea Party protests...
Obama Zombie Supporter Attacks Matthew Medina at Town Hall Meeting!!

Youtube Video

August 25, 2009


Ranting about forced sterilization and chemicals in the water supply.

58 SpaceJesus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:05:32am

re: #42 Guanxi88

And yet, here you are, cheek by galactic jowl with a whole mess of righties. Does this say anything about you, or were you just looking to make a cheap swipe to justify the moral superiority of an undergrad with a quasi-blasphemous nic?


there are plenty of people here who aren't right-wing nutjobs such as yourself. hell, the owner of this blog isn't even a conservative. kiss my devine cosmic ass.

59 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:05:49am

Oh well, here I go ... back to down-dinging it instead of ignoring it

60 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:06:05am

re: #57 Killgore Trout

also posted on the Alex Jones channel.

61 redmonkey  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:07:00am

What I could here here is Beck derangement syndrome in full blossom. Beck cannot control who is coming to the rally. Based on one picture you are demonizing hundreds and thousandth sincerely concerned people in tea parties.

62 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:07:06am
63 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:07:34am

re: #51 SpaceJesus

yeah, the only difference is one is for bringing people up who have been systematically kept down by the state and society for generations and the other is about hating people because of the color of the their skin. yes, clearly affirmative action and hate are the same thing. gold star for you.

clearly they are not, But clearly more on the left beleive that a person of color isn't smart/ talented/ proficient enough to make it on their own (thus needs 10 points added to a civil service test) than that small minority on the far right that you speak of

Do I get a gold star also?

64 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:07:53am

And now here they are!

65 jaunte  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:08:15am

The sarcasm-challenged.

66 subsailor68  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:09:11am

re: #48 Charles

Heh. I'm already getting hate mail about this post. They think it's serious.

Heck, that's nothing compared to what Beck will do on his Monday afternoon show. Here's my guess:

Beck (looking into camera, eyes damp): "Oh sure, you've probably seen what they're saying about me on the blogs. That's not important, even that vicious green football blog, when I don't even watch football. But, I've said it before, and I'll repeat it now. This isn't about me. Sure, I'm a recovering alcoholic, a former drug addict, I wasn't a very nice person, I didn't like myself, my relationships were awful, I couldn't hold down a job, my car was a piece of crap, cook? I couldn't even boil water, I sucked at Twister, my family sent me recycled cards on my birthday, my bank account was so low they wanted the damn toaster back, I was so poor I mailed my bills using food stamps cause at least I didn't have to pay for 'em, and then I pulled myself up by my sneaker straps and got my head on straight. No, this is about YOU, and the America YOU want. Whoever you are..I'm never sure."

67 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:09:23am

re: #65 jaunte

The sarcasm-challenged.

It's sad.

68 jaunte  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:09:42am

Someone named Jones may have arrived at that rally in a van...

69 DEZes  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:09:47am

re: #58 SpaceJesus

Do you have any teeth left in your mouth?

70 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:10:14am
71 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:10:16am

re: #51 SpaceJesus

yeah, the only difference is one is for bringing people up who have been systematically kept down by the state and society for generations and the other is about hating people because of the color of the their skin. yes, clearly affirmative action and hate are the same thing. gold star for you.

SO, just so we are all on the same page, is there any political movement that advocates the continuation of these generations of systematic keeping down, or shall we simply continue to act as if (in some sort of social version of Lemarckism, perhaps) that continued favoring of one group over another will in some way relieve the favored group or groups of the lingering (perhaps it's in the genetic material?) effects of this oppression?

On a related note, since this oppression has not been the policy of any state or political unit of the state of this Union for well-nigh 45 years, how much longer shall we presume to treat minority groups as if they still cannot recover from the trauma inflicted on them so many years ago? Are currently favored ethnic and gender groups so fragile as to still suffer from events that occurred before they were born? If so, then why the HELL aren't I still quivering in fear every time I see a Russian or a Pole, given what they did, systematically over several centuries, to my ancestors?

72 Diego  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:10:20am

re: #58 SpaceJesus

there are plenty of people here who aren't right-wing nutjobs such as yourself. hell, the owner of this blog isn't even a conservative.

I'm one of them (waves) and I've often wondered where Charles' political view resides, generally or otherwise.

73 SpaceJesus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:10:46am

re: #63 sattv4u2

clearly they are not, But clearly more on the left beleive that a person of color isn't smart/ talented/ proficient enough to make it on their own (thus needs 10 points added to a civil service test) than that small minority on the far right that you speak of

Do I get a gold star also?

it has nothing to do with intelligence, it has to do with addressing the discrepancy between resources among races which is a byproduct of years of the state and society making it difficult or impossible for certain people to succeed based entirely on the color of their skin. no gold star for you.

74 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:10:59am

re: #69 DEZes

Do you have any teeth left in your mouth?

How are you doing?
Saw the other day where you were gonna run with Advil.

75 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:11:16am

re: #51 SpaceJesus

gold star for you.

Thank you!
What do I get if i point out the it was the democrats that were responsible for Jim Crow laws and it was democrats such as Bull Connor breaking up early civil rights protests and it was a democrat (Byrd) that threatened to filibuster the Civil Rights act of 1964?

I hope it's something shiny!!

76 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:11:21am

re: #70 Abdominal_Snowman

I'm still trying to believe _any_ of your posts are serious these days, especially the post where you said the Republicans needed to be more inclusive and then banned five or six people in the discussion thread.

And now there's one more!

77 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:11:46am
78 DEZes  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:12:15am

re: #74 pre-Boomer Marine brat

How are you doing?
Saw the other day where you were gonna run with Advil.

Doing better, woke up with very little pain this morning.
Thanks for asking.

79 Gang of One  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:12:22am

re: #51 SpaceJesus

yeah, the only difference is one is for bringing people up who have been systematically kept down by the state and society for generations and the other is about hating people because of the color of the their skin. yes, clearly affirmative action and hate are the same thing. gold star for you.

Forfucksake. Were you born an asshole or are taking lessons?

80 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:12:33am

re: #68 jaunte

Someone named Jones may have arrived at that rally in a van...

The one that's usually parked down by the river?

81 jaunte  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:12:45am

re: #79 Gang of One

Forfucksake. Were you born an asshole or are taking lessons?

Law school.

82 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:13:05am

re: #73 SpaceJesus

it has nothing to do with intelligence, it has to do with addressing the discrepancy between resources among races which is a byproduct of years of the state and society making it difficult or impossible for certain people to succeed based entirely on the color of their skin. no gold star for you.

By any chance, are you W.E.B. Du Bois come back from the dead?

/or are you James Cone?

83 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:13:22am

Kceb Nnelg

84 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:13:31am

re: #73 SpaceJesus

it has nothing to do with intelligence, it has to do with addressing the discrepancy between resources among races which is a byproduct of years of the state and society making it difficult or impossible for certain people to succeed based entirely on the color of their skin. no gold star for you.

I see. So why can't I, as part Irish get the same consideration after my ancestors encouterd signs in every industry IRISH NEED NOT APPLY when they came over? Why can't a second gen Japanese get the same considertaion considering the years of mistrust they endured post WW 2 because of that their countrymen wrought?
How long does you statute of limitations last? 5 decades? 8? a century? 2 centuries??

85 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:14:06am

re: #73 SpaceJesus

it has nothing to do with intelligence, it has to do with addressing the discrepancy between resources among races which is a byproduct of years of the state and society making it difficult or impossible for certain people to succeed based entirely on the color of their skin. no gold star for you.

Excellent! The state, the therapeutic state, which was itself, on your own claim, the former instrument of this oppression, shall now make good for it by acting unjustly, but this time in a different direction. Bravo, an excellent plan.

86 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:14:08am

re: #61 redmonkey

Beck cannot control who is coming to the rally.

I guess Beck has no control over who appears on his show either.

87 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:14:14am

re: #78 DEZes

Doing better, woke up with very little pain this morning.
Thanks for asking.

Sounds good.

88 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:14:19am

re: #70 Abdominal_Snowman

GET YOUR OWN BLOG.

89 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:14:56am

I saw a troofer last night- on a bike pulling a wagon with a sandwich board full of his troofer crap. I was hoping he'd bike past me so I could give him the finger, but he didn't. I did should out "f*cking moron!", but I don't think he heard me. *sigh*

I haven't gone to a tea party protest, but if I had and troofers were there, I would not stand there and let them feel they were welcome. I'd give them a ton of crap, and raise a stink, and try to find organizers to kick them out.

Of course- it doesn't help when some organizers are paulian-alex jones troofers...

90 John Neverbend  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:15:04am

re: #57 Killgore Trout

Ranting about forced sterilization and chemicals in the water supply.

His name isn't Jack D. Ripper, by any chance?

91 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:15:11am

re: #85 Guanxi88

Excellent! The state, the therapeutic state, which was itself, on your own claim, the former instrument of this oppression, shall now make good for it by acting unjustly, but this time in a different direction. Bravo, an excellent plan.

What could (has) POSSIBLY go wrong?
.//

92 Gang of One  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:16:08am

re: #84 sattv4u2

I see. So why can't I, as part Irish get the same consideration after my ancestors encouterd signs in every industry IRISH NEED NOT APPLY when they came over? Why can't a second gen Japanese get the same considertaion considering the years of mistrust they endured post WW 2 because of that their countrymen wrought?
How long does you statute of limitations last? 5 decades? 8? a century? 2 centuries??

Don't forget the Jooos.

93 DEZes  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:16:24am

re: #88 MandyManners

GET YOUR OWN BLOG.

Should we wave goodbye?

94 SpaceJesus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:16:44am

re: #71 Guanxi88

On a related note, since this oppression has not been the policy of any state or political unit of the state of this Union for well-nigh 45 years, how much longer shall we presume to treat minority groups as if they still cannot recover from the trauma inflicted on them so many years ago? Are currently favored ethnic and gender groups so fragile as to still suffer from events that occurred before they were born? If so, then why the HELL aren't I still quivering in fear every time I see a Russian or a Pole, given what they did, systematically over several centuries, to my ancestors?

45 years? where do you get that number? you think it all just went away the exact second the civil rights act was passed in the mid 60s? notice how i didn't just say state, but societal oppression.

95 Diego  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:16:57am

re: #93 DEZes

Should we wave goodbye?

OR can we just undulate?

96 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:17:06am

re: #93 DEZes

Should we wave goodbye?

Careful !
Wave with the OTHER hand.

97 DEZes  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:17:55am

re: #95 Diego

OR can we just undulate?

Works for me. ;)

98 DEZes  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:18:08am

re: #96 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Careful !
Wave with the OTHER hand.

;)

99 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:18:08am

re: #46 Pianobuff


Special meds are needed to discern the "two sides of the same coin" crowd. They believe that (pick one or more from menu: Reptilians, Rothchilds, Illuminati, Trilateral Commission, Bilderbergers, Council on Foreign Relations, Other unnamed Jewish Bankers, European Royalty, Descendants of Sumerians, FreeMasons, Jesuits, Rosicrucians, or other Esotericists [of which I believe Charles was recently accused of being], The World Bank, The Federal Reserve, WTO, Clintons, Bushes, Other Bohemian Grovers, Nazis, Jews, Shape-shifters, Rupert Murdoch, George Soros, Karl Rove, New Agers, The Vatican, "Giants" spoken of in the Book of Enoch, "The Media" --- Collectively known as the New World Order) are really calling the shots.
.

Lessee. I am a lizard, hence Reptilian. I once voted for a guy named Rothchild, I'm a Jew, I once gave a speech holding a single red rose (was asked afterwards if I was a Rosicrucian), I know a lot of esoterica. One of my close relatives used to work for the Federal Reserve, I voted for Bill Clinton twice, and his wife in the primary, did I mentione I'm a Jew, I own a crystal pendant (clearly New Ager), my father is Catholic and I teach in a Catholic school, with a big picture of the Pope on my classroom wall, plus I've written articles for 'the media' on numerous occasions.

AIIIEEE! I AM THE NEW WORLD ORDER!

100 SpaceJesus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:18:35am

re: #75 Van Helsing

Thank you!
What do I get if i point out the it was the democrats that were responsible for Jim Crow laws and it was democrats such as Bull Connor breaking up early civil rights protests and it was a democrat (Byrd) that threatened to filibuster the Civil Rights act of 1964?

I hope it's something shiny!!

oh you're one of these people. you do realize that the democrats of those times in the south were conservative yes? you do realize that the parties have switched geographically and ideologically since then yes?

101 Gang of One  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:18:47am

re: #94 SpaceJesus

45 years? where do you get that number? you think it all just went away the exact second the civil rights act was passed in the mid 60s? notice how i didn't just say state, but societal oppression.

You have got to be joking.

102 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:18:51am

HILARIOUS!

103 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:18:53am

re: #61 redmonkey

What I could here here is Beck derangement syndrome in full blossom. Beck cannot control who is coming to the rally. Based on one picture you are demonizing hundreds and thousandth sincerely concerned people in tea parties.

You are so right!

CHalres, I am not impress. Your sight has been a disgrace since just after the Rather and Marla Maples faked the document. Your continued disenfranchisement of the the various franchises set up is just more of your right wign fascist bleeding heart liberalism.
I am leaving,a nd believe me, whenI go, I am taking the world with me. (You ain't nothing but a girl to me)!.
This is it. Who else will go?

104 redmonkey  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:19:41am

re: #86 Charles

I guess Beck has no control over who appears on his show either.

You correct about his show but this OT is about tea party. Personally, I did not watch Beck show often(too early), but when I watch I could hear some important questions. Sometimes i could see him become pretty crazy, but in this case I am just switching to other channel. But paint him as monster, it overboard.

105 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:19:47am

re: #94 SpaceJesus

45 years? where do you get that number? you think it all just went away the exact second the civil rights act was passed in the mid 60s? notice how i didn't just say state, but societal oppression.

So you think by legislating a make up (which discriminates against all OTHER races) will eliminate a prejudice instead of making it more deep rooted!

106 John Neverbend  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:20:05am

re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist

Lessee. I am a lizard, hence Reptilian...and I teach in a Catholic school, with a big picture of the Pope on my classroom wall, plus I've written articles for 'the media' on numerous occasions.

But...are you a mason?

107 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:20:28am

re: #100 SpaceJesus

oh you're one of these people. you do realize that the democrats of those times in the south were conservative yes? you do realize that the parties have switched geographically and ideologically since then yes?

Oh. I get it. So if democrats do something they'd like us to forget about, they're conservatives.

Makes it all clear to me now.

108 Gang of One  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:20:28am

re: #100 SpaceJesus

oh you're one of these people. you do realize that the democrats of those times in the south were conservative yes? you do realize that the parties have switched geographically and ideologically since then yes?

Do you do stand-up comedy? Your material is just so rich.

109 SpaceJesus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:20:33am

re: #85 Guanxi88

Excellent! The state, the therapeutic state, which was itself, on your own claim, the former instrument of this oppression, shall now make good for it by acting unjustly, but this time in a different direction. Bravo, an excellent plan.


unjustly? not so. it is the only way to correct the wrong that racist conservatives committed in their systematic oppression of minorities.

110 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:21:14am

re: #94 SpaceJesus

45 years? where do you get that number? you think it all just went away the exact second the civil rights act was passed in the mid 60s? notice how i didn't just say state, but societal oppression.

Okay, fine then - the state's stance in the past doesn't matter. If the state's role in political life is irrelevant to the question of social or societal oppression, then HOW IS THE STATE GOING TO FIX IT? Can official, state-supported or state-permitted racism compensate in some way for unofficial, "social" racism? If so, how?

111 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:21:36am

re: #104 redmonkey

But paint him as monster, it overboard.

You still don't get it, do you?

112 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:22:51am

re: #100 SpaceJesus

oh you're one of these people. you do realize that the democrats of those times in the south were conservative yes? you do realize that the parties have switched geographically and ideologically since then yes?

Personally, as a Democrat, I have never gotten over my snit that post-war Southern Dems cost us Condoleezza Rice. Legend goes her father came home from the war, and tried to register Democrat. They wouldn't sign him up, so he tried to register Republican and they would.

Thus does history go.

113 Gang of One  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:23:05am

re: #109 SpaceJesus

unjustly? not so. it is the only way to correct the wrong that racist conservatives committed in their systematic oppression of minorities.

Bullshit. These 'minorities' should sink or swim on their own.
/The Caucasian Guilt® is strong with this one.

114 redmonkey  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:23:36am

re: #111 Killgore Trout

You still don't get it, do you?

No. Did you ever watch his show?

115 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:23:45am

Has Anybody Seen the GOP's Sense of Humor Lately?

Seems this is still a relevant question.

116 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:24:05am

re: #106 John Neverbend

But...are you a mason?

Wait! My grandfather was a mason. I forgot about that! Also, my college roommate was in Rainbow Girls for years, and she told me all about the secret rituals!

117 Diego  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:24:12am

 
And an important issue thus arrises!

Should beck be called a Tearuther? :P

118 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:24:17am

re: #109 SpaceJesus

unjustly? not so. it is the only way to correct the wrong that racist conservatives committed in their systematic oppression of minorities.

Fine, then, so now we understand your policy. Any intervention by the state is justified if it is justified as an attempt to correct a previous injustice. Open racism as a matter of state policy is the best and only way to atone for the sins of those whose crimes were committed before I and the current beneficiaries were ever born. I see; because I oppressed someone before I was born, I should pay now.

Your system and theory only work if you believe in reincarnation; otherwise, it's just purely racial discrimination.

119 BenghaziHoops  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:24:23am

re: #103 haakondahl

You are so right!

CHalres, I am not impress. Your sight has been a disgrace since just after the Rather and Marla Maples faked the document. Your continued disenfranchisement of the the various franchises set up is just more of your right wign fascist bleeding heart liberalism.
I am leaving,a nd believe me, whenI go, I am taking the world with me. (You ain't nothing but a girl to me)!.
This is it. Who else will go?

LOL
I love it when you go all Jerry McGuire on us...
Hope you are well

120 pat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:25:02am

re: #109 SpaceJesus

You seem obsessed about race.

121 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:25:34am

re: #120 pat

You seem obsessed about race.

Guy's a masochist, or a brilliant satirist. Or both.

122 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:25:57am

re: #103 haakondahl

LMAO

123 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:26:57am

I think it is very irresponsible of the mainstream GOP leaders to not speak out against these extremists who are glomming onto the Republican party. This is fecklessness at its worst. If the GOP lacks the confidence to promote its own best interests, how the hell are they going to attract independents who dislike the Dem agenda but are frightened of the extreme rightwingers who seem to be gaining influence in the GOP. It's long past time for the sane and mature voices in the GOP to wake up and take back a once great political party from the freaks like ron paul.

124 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:27:14am

re: #100 SpaceJesus

oh you're one of these people. you do realize that the democrats of those times in the south were conservative yes? you do realize that the parties have switched geographically and ideologically since then yes?

Yes ,, yes I do!

The "republicans" are now center right and the "democrats" are now socialistic. The Republicans are strongest in the south where inter racial relationships, both professionally and personally are much more prevelent than up north,

(((and BTW ,, this from someone that was born and raised in Boston ,,, has lived in New York City as well as southern bastions Geensboro NC and currently Atlanta Ga)

125 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:27:17am

re: #104 redmonkey

You correct about his show but this OT is about tea party. Personally, I did not watch Beck show often(too early), but when I watch I could hear some important questions. Sometimes i could see him become pretty crazy, but in this case I am just switching to other channel. But paint him as monster, it overboard.

*Facepalm.*

126 subsailor68  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:27:22am

Oops, chores call! I hope everyone has a wonderful weekend, and Charles, thanks for this post - it really is a kick! Two thumbs way, way up!!

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:27:23am

Also, I might be descended from Sumerians, being as I'm a West Semite and all. Wait, weren't they East Semites? Nevermind. Close enough for conspiracy theory.

128 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:27:27am

re: #103 haakondahl

You are so right!

CHalres, I am not impress. Your sight has been a disgrace since just after the Rather and Marla Maples faked the document. Your continued disenfranchisement of the the various franchises set up is just more of your right wign fascist bleeding heart liberalism.
I am leaving,a nd believe me, whenI go, I am taking the world with me. (You ain't nothing but a girl to me)!.
This is it. Who else will go?

*grin*
We oughta have a Private Lounge Thread where we can run a Flounce Contest (with actual flounces not allowed.)

129 John Neverbend  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:27:50am

re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist

Wait! My grandfather was a mason. I forgot about that! Also, my college roommate was in Rainbow Girls for years, and she told me all about the secret rituals!

My grandfather, too. Mind you, I've known that I belonged to the international Jewish/Zionist conspiracy for many years.

130 SpaceJesus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:27:57am

re: #105 sattv4u2

So you think by legislating a make up (which discriminates against all OTHER races) will eliminate a prejudice instead of making it more deep rooted!


minorities were systematically forced by the state and society into the lowest possible rung on the economic ladder for generations. this created a cycle of poverty, low self-worth and disadvantage among minorities that persists today. while i would love to have perfect competition between americans for things in life, it is entirely unfair to want this kind of competition when millions of minority americans are forced to start out at a disadvantage in life because of the near permanent damage the state and society did to their parents and ancestors. affirmative action may not be a perfect solution, but it's the only way to right the wrongs of the past.

131 DEZes  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:28:25am

re: #103 haakondahl

"is just more of your right wign fascist bleeding heart liberalism."

Best LOL in a week.

132 jaunte  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:28:30am

Let the social justice be unconstrained!

133 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:28:37am

re: #123 _RememberTonyC

It's long past time for the sane and mature voices in the GOP to wake up and take back a once great political party from the freaks like ron paul.


I don't think it's time yet. Rational voices are not welcome in conservative circles these days. We're going to have to wait this out.

134 Salamantis  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:28:48am

What about if we honor Martin Luther King Day by passing a bill mandating that in education, public access, housing and employment, people be judged (and rewarded or penalized) not on the color of their skins but on the content of their characters? In other words, why don't we just judge people as individuals, based upon their individual histories?

Let's embrace legal, governmental, and sociocultural colorblindedness and mandate equality of opportunity, not equality of result.

And the same thing goes for gender and sexual orientation differences, too.

135 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:29:34am

re: #128 pre-Boomer Marine brat

*grin*
We oughta have a Private Lounge Thread where we can run a Flounce Contest (with actual flounces not allowed.)

That might be fun. Do you remember the thread with the six words to describe America "contest"? That was one of the more fun threads ever on LGF, imo.

136 Diego  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:29:51am

re: #133 Killgore Trout

I don't think it's time yet. Rational voices are not welcome in conservative circles these days. We're going to have to wait this out.

Or you could root it out and remove it as the cancer it is. It's been done before..

137 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:29:53am

re: #133 Killgore Trout

I don't think it's time yet. Rational voices are not welcome in conservative circles these days. We're going to have to wait this out.

when will be the right time?

138 jaunte  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:30:04am

re: #134 Salamantis

Devising a character test would be interesting.

139 jcm  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:30:36am

re: #128 pre-Boomer Marine brat

*grin*
We oughta have a Private Lounge Thread where we can run a Flounce Contest (with actual flounces not allowed.)

I'm ready...

140 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:30:44am

re: #135 Sharmuta

That might be fun. Do you remember the thread with the six words to describe America "contest"? That was one of the more fun threads ever on LGF, imo.

I don't remember that. Maybe before my time here.

141 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:30:46am

re: #130 SpaceJesus

minorities were systematically forced by the state and society into the lowest possible rung on the economic ladder for generations

minorities were systematically forced by the state and society into the lowest possible rung on the economic ladder for generations

ALL minorities have been. Or have you never been to nor seen a ghetto?

BTW ,, do you even KNOW whwre that word comes from???

142 BenghaziHoops  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:31:26am

re: #128 pre-Boomer Marine brat

*grin*
We oughta have a Private Lounge Thread where we can run a Flounce Contest (with actual flounces not allowed.)

Awesome fun idea...Then we vote for the best..most imaginative, Dumbest and so on...

143 Gang of One  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:31:34am

re: #130 SpaceJesus

minorities were systematically forced by the state and society into the lowest possible rung on the economic ladder for generations. this created a cycle of poverty, low self-worth and disadvantage among minorities that persists today. while i would love to have perfect competition between americans for things in life, it is entirely unfair to want this kind of competition when millions of minority americans are forced to start out at a disadvantage in life because of the near permanent damage the state and society did to their parents and ancestors. affirmative action may not be a perfect solution, but it's the only way to right the wrongs of the past.

Which 'minorities'? Asians? Indians? Jews? The only disadvantages your 'minorities' have are self-imposed or the result of gummint me-so-sorry- entitlement programs. Give it a fucking break, already. You sound so 1960s.

144 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:31:45am

re: #134 Salamantis

What about if we honor Martin Luther King Day by passing a bill mandating that in education, public access, housing and employment, people be judged (and rewarded or penalized) not on the color of their skins but on the content of their characters? In other words, why don't we just judge people as individuals, based upon their individual histories?

Let's embrace legal, governmental, and sociocultural colorblindedness and mandate equality of opportunity, not equality of result.

And the same thing goes for gender and sexual orientation differences, too.

but ,, But ,, BUT then Space Jesus couldn't call us RACISTS!!

NO FAIR!

145 jaunte  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:32:00am

re: #141 sattv4u2

I guess this means everyone not a native American will have to go back.

146 Cathypop  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:32:03am

re: #134 Salamantis

What about if we honor Martin Luther King Day by passing a bill mandating that in education, public access, housing and employment, people be judged (and rewarded or penalized) not on the color of their skins but on the content of their characters? In other words, why don't we just judge people as individuals, based upon their individual histories?

Let's embrace legal, governmental, and sociocultural colorblindedness and mandate equality of opportunity, not equality of result.

And the same thing goes for gender and sexual orientation differences, too.

It would never work because it makes sense.

147 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:32:20am

re: #130 SpaceJesus

minorities were systematically forced by the state and society into the lowest possible rung on the economic ladder for generations. this created a cycle of poverty, low self-worth and disadvantage among minorities that persists today. while i would love to have perfect competition between americans for things in life, it is entirely unfair to want this kind of competition when millions of minority americans are forced to start out at a disadvantage in life because of the near permanent damage the state and society did to their parents and ancestors. affirmative action may not be a perfect solution, but it's the only way to right the wrongs of the past.

Yeah, but Clinton dismantled many of the Great Society programs that caused this.

148 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:32:23am

re: #139 jcm

I'm ready...

GAH!
TH'DOG!
Run th' DOG!

/grabs wet-vac

149 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:33:18am

re: #135 Sharmuta

That might be fun. Do you remember the thread with the six words to describe America "contest"? That was one of the more fun threads ever on LGF, imo.

One of the coolest things I ever saw was a magazine contest where you had to take a well-known piece of writing and rewrite it in words of one syllable.

Someone did the opening passage of Huckleberry Finn--which unfortunately repeats the words 'widow' and 'Mary' several times, so these had to be replaced with 'her whose mate died', and 'her with the same name as her who had no sex but had a son who some say was the son of God'.

Someone else did the Bill of Rights. They didn't have room for the whole thing, but did an excerpt. Seems the Man can't take your land to make a park or a wide road and not pay. The Man has to pay for your land. Not through the nose, just pay.

150 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:33:39am

re: #140 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I don't remember that. Maybe before my time here.

The Six-Word Motto Contest

It was 2008.

151 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:33:39am

re: #130 SpaceJesus

while i would love to have perfect competition between americans for things in life, it is entirely unfair to want this kind of competition when millions of minority americans are forced to start out at a disadvantage in life because of the near permanent damage the state and society did to their parents and ancestors. affirmative action may not be a perfect solution, but it's the only way to right the wrongs of the past.

Two questions:

1) Do you think the "permanent damage" could be corrected by a generation of state-sanctioned racial preferences?

2) If it should take longer than that, do you think the groups being discriminated against in order to make of up for the previous discrimination will suffer "permanent damage," or are only women and non-caucasians so fragile?

152 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:33:40am

re: #137 _RememberTonyC

when will be the right time?

When people are willing to listen to rational voices. We're going to have to wait until this insanity isn't as fashionable. It could take a while. I'me guessing at least 8 years. Maybe more.

153 jeremy0114  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:33:47am

I think what SpaceJesus does not understand is that welfare is slavery... not by a whip but by a dollar. And his beloved democraps, after having to abandon segregatist ways for political expediency in the middle 20th century traded slavery by the whip to slavery by the dollar, under the auspice of compassion and equality.

I could never be a liberal for that reason. Institutionalized welfare is slavery. It destroys people. It makes them slaves to the master, which is the politician telling them how abused they are and how much money they are going to take away from the people who aren't enslaved.

SpaceJesus, it is time to get out of 9th grade race and ethnic relations class and really get to know people. All kinds of people. You may open your eyes and see that the crap you are peddling is every as bit as racist and enslaving as slavery by the whip was. But then again you wont.

154 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:34:19am

re: #143 Gang of One

Which 'minorities'? Asians? Indians? Jews? The only disadvantages your 'minorities' have are self-imposed or the result of gummint me-so-sorry- entitlement programs. Give it a fucking break, already. You sound so 1960s.

the minorities that have become most succesful (Jews, Asians, etc) are the ones who stressed education, hard work, and sacrificing ones own immediate material desires in order to pave the way for the next generation to be succesful.

155 Salamantis  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:34:24am

re: #138 jaunte

Devising a character test would be interesting.

High school GPA and scores on standardized tests work for college admission and scholarships; arrest record and financial need work for provision of public housing; education, employment history and references work for private hiring; etc.

156 John Neverbend  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:34:25am

re: #142 HoosierHoops

Awesome fun idea...Then we vote for the best..most imaginative, Dumbest and so on...

Here's a model flounce: Flounce

157 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:34:32am

re: #130 SpaceJesus

low self-worth and disadvantage among minorities that persists today.

My Mom didn't warm my milk and cookies befotre I went to bed

My Dad didn't spend enough time with me making models and taking me to ball games

I had low self worth as a child.
PLEASE DADDY GUBMIT ,,, GIVE ME SUMFIN!

158 SpaceJesus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:35:21am

re: #118 Guanxi88

Fine, then, so now we understand your policy. Any intervention by the state is justified if it is justified as an attempt to correct a previous injustice. Open racism as a matter of state policy is the best and only way to atone for the sins of those whose crimes were committed before I and the current beneficiaries were ever born. I see; because I oppressed someone before I was born, I should pay now.

Your system and theory only work if you believe in reincarnation; otherwise, it's just purely racial discrimination.


like i said before, the intentions of affirmative action are good, the racism practiced on the right however, is based entirely on hate.

we got started off on this topic because somebody said the left is racist too. as i have demonstrated, the left is merely trying to correct horrible wrongs, while the right is trying to continue fostering those horrible wrongs.

159 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:35:26am

re: #130 SpaceJesus

affirmative action may not be a perfect solution, but it's the only way to right the wrongs of the past.


As established in the landmark case, Hatfield v McCoy.

160 SpaceJesus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:36:06am

re: #143 Gang of One

Which 'minorities'? Asians? Indians? Jews? The only disadvantages your 'minorities' have are self-imposed or the result of gummint me-so-sorry- entitlement programs. Give it a fucking break, already. You sound so 1960s.


were either of those races ever enslaved the way African Americans were? didn't think so.

161 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:36:14am

re: #158 SpaceJesus

like i said before, the intentions of affirmative action are good,


ASSINGMENT

Look up Law Of Unintended Consequences!

162 jaunte  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:36:24am

re: #158 SpaceJesus

Correction: The 'left' is trying to force others to do thing they imagine will 'correct' horrible wrongs.

163 Gang of One  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:36:34am

re: #154 _RememberTonyC

the minorities that have become most succesful (Jews, Asians, etc) are the ones who stressed education, hard work, and sacrificing ones own immediate material desires in order to pave the way for the next generation to be succesful.

I regret I have but one up-ding to give, sir.

164 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:36:56am

re: #160 SpaceJesus

were either of those races ever enslaved the way African Americans were? didn't think so.

Asians? Indians? Jews

Yes, yes ,, and ,,, ummm,,, YES!

165 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:37:06am

re: #158 SpaceJesus

like i said before, the intentions of affirmative action are good, the racism practiced on the right however, is based entirely on hate.

we got started off on this topic because somebody said the left is racist too. as i have demonstrated, the left is merely trying to correct horrible wrongs, while the right is trying to continue fostering those horrible wrongs.

So, racism with good intentions can make use of the state's coercive power?

166 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:37:11am

re: #150 Sharmuta

The Six-Word Motto Contest

It was 2008.

I believe this was the winner.

167 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:37:35am

re: #158 SpaceJesus

like i said before, the intentions of affirmative action are good, the racism practiced on the right however, is based entirely on hate.

we got started off on this topic because somebody said the left is racist too. as i have demonstrated, the left is merely trying to correct horrible wrongs, while the right is trying to continue fostering those horrible wrongs.

Careful--now you're working Salamantis' side of the street.

168 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:37:50am

I turn on the computer this morning, and see on AOL's page: "UK Official Makes Stunning Claim", with a picture of the Lockerbie bomber beside it. In smaller print: "Reveals Secret Element in Release of Lockerbie Killer, 'Very Big Factor'".

Wondering what the hell is up now, I click.

"Oil Part of Lockerbie Talks, Official Says"

Oh. Stunning. Uh-huh.

169 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:37:53am

re: #152 Killgore Trout

When people are willing to listen to rational voices. We're going to have to wait until this insanity isn't as fashionable. It could take a while. I'me guessing at least 8 years. Maybe more.

then we are screwed. because we don't have that much time to fuck around while our society goes down a road that will be a disaster. We need sane and mature GOP leaders with balls right now.

170 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:38:03am

re: #160 SpaceJesus

were either of those races ever enslaved the way African Americans were? didn't think so.

How far back do you want to take that slavery argument?
Vikings?
Romans?
Greeks?
Persians?
Egyptians?
Mongols?

I need to know so I can keep your comments in proper context.

171 DEZes  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:38:12am

re: #163 Gang of One

I regret I have but one up-ding to give, sir.

I gave it a ding to make up for you having only one.
Creates a problem though, someone will have to ding for me now. ;)

172 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:38:24am

re: #160 SpaceJesus

were either of those races ever enslaved the way African Americans were? didn't think so.

And so, to make up for it, we shall favor Haitians over Poles in Harvard's admissions, government hiring, and in any way we can. Makes perfect sense. Why didn't I see that before?

173 jeremy0114  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:38:29am

re: #160 SpaceJesus

Jews built the pyramids dipshit.

Slaves were bought and sold based on economic and freight conditions, much as anything else. In one way it was nothing personal. Ever wonder why Poland Romania and Checkh are called the slavic countries?

You are wholefuuy ignornat.

174 Diego  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:39:02am

re: #156 John Neverbend

Here's a model flounce: Flounce


On (close your eyes if you can't handle the name) KOS they are called GBCW (Good Bye Cruel World) posts, and unilaterally mocked just as here. :)

175 Salamantis  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:39:33am

The perpetuation of affirmative action in the age of Obama seems to be based upon the soft bigotry of low expectations - and furthermore, judging by who are currently our President and our dominant media mogul (Obama & Oprah), those expectations would seem to be set illegitimately low.

176 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:39:35am

re: #150 Sharmuta

The Six-Word Motto Contest

It was 2008.

Oops!
Can I plead senility?
(at least a Find search didn't come up with any comments by me)

177 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:39:50am

re: #158 SpaceJesus

like i said before, the intentions of affirmative action are good

There was a road where those items were used as paving material...

178 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:40:02am

re: #160 SpaceJesus

were either of those races ever enslaved the way African Americans were? didn't think so.

Yes. All of them. Before societies invent money, they trade people. Do you think that slavery was an European idea which was introduced to Africa by the sword?

179 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:40:13am

re: #150 Sharmuta

Favorited, to read later!
Thanks!

180 SpaceJesus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:40:33am

re: #153 jeremy0114

And his beloved democraps,

not a democrat, sorry.


i think this whole discussion is hilarious. i can't believe there are people here equating the kind of vile racism rooted in hate that exists on the right with well-meaning people who want to correct generations of successful state and society sponsored oppression.

181 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:40:35am

re: #178 haakondahl

Yes. All of them. Before societies invent money, they trade people. Do you think that slavery was an European idea which was introduced to Africa by the sword?

No, it was a conservative idea, imposed twenty minutes ago.

182 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:41:10am

re: #160 SpaceJesus

were either of those races ever enslaved the way African Americans were? didn't think so.

are there any Aferican Americans alive today that were slaves? would the descendents of slaves living in the USA right now be better off if their asncestors had never left Africa? Would they have the opportunities in the year 2009 in a place like Zimbabwe, Senegal, or Congo that they have here?

didn't think so

183 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:41:11am

re: #180 SpaceJesus

GAZE+downding.

184 jaunte  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:41:13am

re: #180 SpaceJesus

Good intentions pave what road, again?

185 SpaceJesus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:41:19am

re: #178 haakondahl

Yes. All of them. Before societies invent money, they trade people. Do you think that slavery was an European idea which was introduced to Africa by the sword?

in america? no, they weren't.

186 Gang of One  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:41:28am

re: #160 SpaceJesus

were either of those races ever enslaved the way African Americans were? didn't think so.

You are really either ignorant or a fool. American enslavement of Africans was not invented here. And if you have a problem with the Africans being slaves, you can also vent on the actual continental Africans who sold their fellow blacks into bondage. Not one race or ethnic group on this planet has escaped enslavement at some point in history -- it is one of the oldest human institutions. Read much history? didn't think so.

187 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:41:46am

re: #163 Gang of One

I regret I have but one up-ding to give, sir.

thanks!

188 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:42:11am

re: #169 _RememberTonyC

then we are screwed. because we don't have that much time to fuck around while our society goes down a road that will be a disaster. We need sane and mature GOP leaders with balls right now.

Not really. America will survive Obama just fine. The GOP can return to power when it's healthy. We're just going to have to be patient.

189 bloodnok  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:42:23am

re: #157 sattv4u2

low self-worth and disadvantage among minorities that persists today.

My Mom didn't warm my milk and cookies befotre I went to bed

My Dad didn't spend enough time with me making models and taking me to ball games

I had low self worth as a child.
PLEASE DADDY GUBMIT ,,, GIVE ME SUMFIN!

I'm glad it's that simple to you. That is about as offensive to the problems of people who need real help as it gets. It's all just a handout to you and everybody's just lazy.

As long as you turned out okay, though.

190 SpaceJesus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:42:23am

re: #177 Van Helsing

There was a road where those items were used as paving material...

like i said, it isn't a perfect answer but it's the only one.

191 Salamantis  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:42:40am

re: #160 SpaceJesus

were either of those races ever enslaved the way African Americans were? didn't think so.

Even many Irish leaving the Emerald Isle to escape the starvation of the devastating Potato Famine could not afford their passage, and had to pay their way by selling themselves into slavery for a set number of years (usually five or more) upon their arrival in America. It was called indentured servitude.

192 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:42:46am

re: #180 SpaceJesus

not a democrat, sorry.

i think this whole discussion is hilarious. i can't believe there are people here equating the kind of vile racism rooted in hate that exists on the right with well-meaning people who want to correct generations of successful state and society sponsored oppression.

Could be because some of those efforts to rectify generational inequity resulted in the murder of about 100 million people. See Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.

193 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:42:53am

re: #158 SpaceJesus

like i said before, the intentions of affirmative action are good, the racism practiced on the right however, is based entirely on hate.

we got started off on this topic because somebody said the left is racist too. as i have demonstrated, the left is merely trying to correct horrible wrongs, while the right is trying to continue fostering those horrible wrongs.

We know the intentions are good- that's not the issue. Those of us with a constrained vision believe in systemic equality and not results based solutions. Has there been systemic inequality- yes. Many steps have been taken to correct systemic flaws, and we should continue to correct them when we find them, but quotas can also have harmful effects. The best way to ensure equality is in the systemic process. It's a vision thing.

194 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:43:02am

re: #180 SpaceJesus

well-meaning people The Nazis were "well meaning". They just wanted a pure Aryan race of people so there would be excellence in mankind

195 Gang of One  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:43:58am

re: #171 DEZes

I gave it a ding to make up for you having only one.
Creates a problem though, someone will have to ding for me now. ;)


Gotcher back, DEZ.

196 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:44:22am

re: #193 Sharmuta

We know the intentions are good- that's not the issue. Those of us with a constrained vision believe in systemic equality and not results based solutions. Has there been systemic inequality- yes. Many steps have been taken to correct systemic flaws, and we should continue to correct them when we find them, but quotas can also have harmful effects. The best way to ensure equality is in the systemic process. It's a vision thing.

You go girl distinguished lady!

197 SpaceJesus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:45:14am

re: #186 Gang of One

You are really either ignorant or a fool. American enslavement of Africans was not invented here. And if you have a problem with the Africans being slaves, you can also vent on the actual continental Africans who sold their fellow blacks into bondage. Not one race or ethnic group on this planet has escaped enslavement at some point in history -- it is one of the oldest human institutions. Read much history? didn't think so.


Strawman much? The situation during both slavery and post-slavery America is actually quite unique, perhaps you should read up on it. On another note, I bet you can't tell me which country in history had the highest percentage of its population under hereditary enslavement. This history major can tell your ignorant ass if you want to know.

198 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:45:29am

re: #189 bloodnok

I'm glad it's that simple to you. That is about as offensive to the problems of people who need real help as it gets. It's all just a handout to you and everybody's just lazy.

As long as you turned out okay, though.

Nope,,, I have my problems and struggles each and every waking moment. The difference is I never went with my hand out to the government to solve MY problems! NOR ,, did I ever expect them too!

(thanks for the opening to prove the point, btw)

199 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:45:31am

re: #180 SpaceJesus

i think this whole discussion is hilarious. i can't believe there are people here equating the kind of vile racism rooted in hate that exists on the right with well-meaning people who want to correct generations of successful state and society sponsored oppression.

From curiosity, I ask again - do you think that a successful program of state-sanctioned racial discrimination is correct as a matter of policy if the intentions of those practicing it are pure? This is very dangerous, because I daresay, had you asked one of the old-line bigots who were attempting to use state power to keep blacks down about it, he would have informed you that he was acting from very pure intentions.

Of course, his perception of his intentions is irrelevant to the injustice he was committing; one can do all manner of horrific things with a clear conscience. Intentions do not matter - actions do. If racial discrimination was wrong then, it is wrong now.

And I repeat - affirmative action works only if you believe in reincarnation. Otherwise, you punish the living to avenge the dead.

200 Diego  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:45:36am

re: #188 Killgore Trout

Not really. America will survive Obama just fine. The GOP can return to power when it's healthy. We're just going to have to be patient.

But then I suggest the possibility that there are those who are not fighting against The Stupid (tm) simply because they are providing the service of fighting against Obama for them and they don't really care where it all goes so long as they continue to fight.

I see it as wrong-headed, not to mention cowardly in it's own way, and harmful to the country and governance in general.

201 SpaceJesus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:45:54am

the situation of the irish in ireland doesn't equal blacks in america just fyi, foolish republicans.

202 austin_blue  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:46:33am

re: #70 Abdominal_Snowman

I'm still trying to believe _any_ of your posts are serious these days, especially the post where you said the Republicans needed to be more inclusive and then banned five or six people in the discussion thread.

Are you banned Yeti?

Oh, yes, I see you are.

Toodles!

203 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:46:39am

re: #128 pre-Boomer Marine brat

*grin*
We oughta have a Private Lounge Thread where we can run a Flounce Contest (with actual flounces not allowed.)

I had sort of hoped we could do it here. Not many poker faces in this crowd, I'm afraid.

204 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:46:41am

re: #194 sattv4u2

well-meaning people The Nazis were "well meaning". They just wanted a pure Aryan race of people so there would be excellence in mankind


You're my bud, Sat ... but it's hard for me to see anything about nazism being well meaning.

205 jeremy0114  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:46:45am

re: #180 SpaceJesus

not a democrat, sorry.

i think this whole discussion is hilarious. i can't believe there are people here equating the kind of vile racism rooted in hate that exists on the right with well-meaning people who want to correct generations of successful state and society sponsored oppression.

What I think is even worse is you thinking people legislating that some are better than others and distributing resources unequally based on that is not racism! You my friend need to get a life. Well meaning people who had to trade slavery and segregation for welfare and entitlement. You people should be ashamed of yourselves for creating this mess and blaming the poor results on the other side of the political spectrum with a broad brush.

206 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:46:46am

re: #185 SpaceJesus

in america? no, they weren't.

Yeah ,, because all those Asians VOLUNTEERED to build the rail lines between the west coast and Promitory point!

207 John Neverbend  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:46:48am

re: #174 Diego

On (close your eyes if you can't handle the name) KOS they are called GBCW (Good Bye Cruel World) posts, and unilaterally mocked just as here. :)

I can handle it. I always assumed that it's called kos because it's green, potentially maggoty and has an IQ of zero.

208 SpaceJesus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:46:53am

re: #199 Guanxi88

From curiosity, I ask again - do you think that a successful program of state-sanctioned racial discrimination is correct as a matter of policy if the intentions of those practicing it are pure? This is very dangerous, because I daresay, had you asked one of the old-line bigots who were attempting to use state power to keep blacks down about it, he would have informed you that he was acting from very pure intentions.

Of course, his perception of his intentions is irrelevant to the injustice he was committing; one can do all manner of horrific things with a clear conscience. Intentions do not matter - actions do. If racial discrimination was wrong then, it is wrong now.

And I repeat - affirmative action works only if you believe in reincarnation. Otherwise, you punish the living to avenge the dead.

you're trying to make this subjective in such a way that no rational person can take seriously.

209 Gang of One  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:47:17am

re: #190 SpaceJesus

like i said, it isn't a perfect answer but it's the only one.

Absolutely not. The answer is to not repeat the behavior, make education available, hold 'minorities' accountable for themselves and reward them based on their merit and accomplishment. But that raaacist, right.

210 Gang of One  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:47:46am

re: #197 SpaceJesus

Strawman much? The situation during both slavery and post-slavery America is actually quite unique, perhaps you should read up on it. On another note, I bet you can't tell me which country in history had the highest percentage of its population under hereditary enslavement. This history major can tell your ignorant ass if you want to know.

Yawn.

211 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:48:22am

re: #188 Killgore Trout

Not really. America will survive Obama just fine. The GOP can return to power when it's healthy. We're just going to have to be patient.

your optimism is refreshing

212 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:48:26am

re: #208 SpaceJesus

you're trying to make this subjective in such a way that no rational person can take seriously.

You're the one citing the intentions of the actors as evidence of the justice of their actions. I'm asking about the actions themselves, not the intentions.

See, an intention is subjective, and so... .nevermind.

Boil it down for you - INTENTIONS don't matter.

213 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:48:37am

re: #180 SpaceJesus

not a democrat, sorry.


i think this whole discussion is hilarious. i can't believe there are people here equating the kind of vile racism rooted in hate that exists on the right with well-meaning people who want to correct generations of successful state and society sponsored oppression.

You're exactly right.
Well-meaning people like James Cone.

/

214 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:48:38am

All theses folks ... Paul, Beck, etc etc ... are pathological.

They would hate any country they find themselves in.

215 jcm  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:48:39am

re: #180 SpaceJesus

not a democrat, sorry.

i think this whole discussion is hilarious. i can't believe there are people here equating the kind of vile racism rooted in hate that exists on the right with well-meaning people who want to correct generations of successful state and society sponsored oppression.

And who is currently perpetuating state sponsored oppression of class warfare, group rights and welfare? Which party most recently had an open segregationist as a presidential candidate? Which party currently has a former Klegal (or what ever it's called) of the KKK sitting in the US Senate?

216 SpaceJesus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:48:47am

spacejesus is going to lunch. been fun.

keep deluding yourselves that hating black people because they're black is the same thing as awarding special scholarships to people who have successfully been oppressed for generations-- ill be back later.

217 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:48:59am

re: #196 Van Helsing

You go girl distinguished lady!

Thanks. I hope folks don't think I'm trying to beat up on SpaceJesus, because he does have a point. There have been inequalities and there is a segment of the far right that revels in their hatred. Maybe it's because I'm a woman and have experienced gender inequality that I feel sympathetic. I still think equality is best ensured by systemic processes, but I'm also not going to deny reality. We protect it by enforcing our anti-discrimination laws.

218 Salamantis  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:49:04am

re: #201 SpaceJesus

the situation of the irish in ireland doesn't equal blacks in america just fyi, foolish republicans.

You never heard of the signs that used to flourish in America saying Dogs and Irish Need Not Apply?

219 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:49:25am

re: #197 SpaceJesus

Strawman much? The situation during both slavery and post-slavery America is actually quite unique, perhaps you should read up on it. On another note, I bet you can't tell me which country in history had the highest percentage of its population under hereditary enslavement. This history major can tell your ignorant ass if you want to know.

If your answer isn't a West Coast African nation you'd be incorrect!

220 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:49:28am

re: #216 SpaceJesus

spacejesus is going to lunch. been fun.

keep deluding yourselves that hating black people because they're black is the same thing as awarding special scholarships to people who have successfully been oppressed for generations-- ill be back later.

Okay, we'll oppress the minorities, you save the world.


Don't choke.

221 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:50:27am

re: #204 _RememberTonyC

You're my bud, Sat ... but it's hard for me to see anything about nazism being well meaning.

Meant that in the theoretical term "for the good of their people"

222 DEZes  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:50:37am

re: #195 Gang of One

Gotcher back, DEZ.

Thank you kindly.

223 transient  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:50:50am

We've got way too many rabbits here.
What we need are some foxes.
Yeah, that'll fix the problem.

224 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:51:34am

re: #215 jcm

And who is currently perpetuating state sponsored oppression of class warfare, group rights and welfare? Which party most recently had an open segregationist as a presidential candidate? Which party currently has a former Klegal (or what ever it's called) of the KKK sitting in the US Senate?

Oh Oh Oh! Pick me!!!
Byrd - a quote from a letter:

Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds."

That is some enlightened thinking there, straight from the kleagle.

225 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:52:21am

Now I have a headache...
The whole thing spins so fast I can't keep up with what's satire and what's real.

It's getting tough out there when you have to rely on the Onion and Scrappleface for hard news...
///

226 sagehen  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:52:27am

re: #130 SpaceJesus

minorities were systematically forced by the state and society into the lowest possible rung on the economic ladder for generations. this created a cycle of poverty, low self-worth and disadvantage among minorities that persists today. while i would love to have perfect competition between americans for things in life, it is entirely unfair to want this kind of competition when millions of minority americans are forced to start out at a disadvantage in life because of the near permanent damage the state and society did to their parents and ancestors. affirmative action may not be a perfect solution, but it's the only way to right the wrongs of the past.

You're going about this all wrong.

Try it this way:

Nepotism provides opportunities to people whose parents and grandparents were achievers 50 years ago. Affirmative action provides similar opportunities to people whose parents and grandparents were legally prohibited from being achievers 50 years ago.

One still needs one's own talents, skills and effort to make anything out of the opportunities provided by nepotism or affirmative action.

227 jcm  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:52:40am

re: #224 Van Helsing

That is some enlightened thinking there, straight from the kleagle.

I wonder what he really thinks of POTUS.

228 Gang of One  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:52:57am

re: #216 SpaceJesus

spacejesus is going to lunch. been fun.

keep deluding yourselves that hating black people because they're black is the same thing as awarding special scholarships to people who have successfully been oppressed for generations-- ill be back later.

Because you can't rebutt, Mr. History Major.
/Door. Ass. Bang.

229 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:53:46am

re: #180 SpaceJesus

not a democrat, sorry.

i think this whole discussion is hilarious. i can't believe there are people here equating the kind of vile racism rooted in hate that exists on the right with well-meaning people who want to correct generations of successful state and society sponsored oppression.

I'm just passing through, but, when did we have the history disconnect happen?

230 jorline  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:53:49am

TD Navy...27-29

231 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:53:58am

re: #221 sattv4u2

Meant that in the theoretical term "for the good of their people"

in that sense, I understand ... thanks

232 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:53:58am

re: #226 sagehen

Now, the nepotism angle is an interesting one. I think it's a lot harder to refute than SJ's line was.

233 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:53:59am

OT

Ohio State 29 ,, Navy 27 ,, Navy setting up for a 2 point conversion

3rd quarter!

234 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:54:09am

re: #226 sagehen

I may also point out that affirmative action amounts to a de facto title of nobility as it confers unmerited advantage by accident of birth and is thus unconstitutional.

235 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:54:26am

re: #224 Van Helsing

You know that the nets will be picking that one up and running with it as the lead story on the nightly broadcasts.
/not/
But if it had come from a senator or rep with an R following his name, it'd be a bumper sticker.

236 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:54:33am

re: #226 sagehen

You're going about this all wrong.

Try it this way:

Nepotism provides opportunities to people whose parents and grandparents were achievers 50 years ago. Affirmative action provides similar opportunities to people whose parents and grandparents were legally prohibited from being achievers 50 years ago.

One still needs one's own talents, skills and effort to make anything out of the opportunities provided by nepotism or affirmative action.

Interesting post.

Two differences: Nepotism has a limited range, and AA is a federal program. Not that you're wrong.

237 jorline  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:54:50am

re: #233 sattv4u2

OT

Ohio State 29 ,, Navy 27 ,, Navy setting up for a 2 point conversion

3rd 4th quarter!

2:23 left in game

238 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:54:59am

re: #234 Ojoe

I may also point out that affirmative action amounts to a de facto title of nobility as it confers unmerited advantage by accident of birth and is thus unconstitutional.

And the titles of nobility counter is another new one on me. Very shrewd. I'll need to think about that one.

239 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:55:13am

re: #228 Gang of One

Because you can't rebutt, Mr. History Major.
/Door. Ass. Bang.

Did you notice he forgot the capitalization AND apostrophe in I'll?

/Freudian, or deliberate?

240 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:55:18am

re: #233 sattv4u2

OT

Ohio State 29 ,, Navy 27 ,, Navy setting up for a 2 point conversion

3rd quarter!

Weet!

241 Gang of One  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:55:21am

re: #229 Walter L. Newton

I'm just passing through, but, when did we have the history disconnect happen?

I think it started in academia in the late 1960s.

242 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:55:25am

re: #227 jcm

I wonder what he really thinks of POTUS.

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be particularly flattering.
I've known some people that held Byrd's views. They could make nice about integration and such, but it was just a veneer. A very thin veneer.

When you're brought up with that, it's not gonna be changed easily.

243 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:55:37am

re: #233 sattv4u2

OT

Ohio State 31, Navy 27 ,, Navy setting up for a 2 point conversion

3rd quarter!

Ohio state intercepts and runs back the try
OSU gets 2 points

244 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:55:39am

re: #230 jorline

TD Navy...27-29

wow ... 31-27 OSU

245 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:55:58am

re: #237 jorline

2:23 left in game

sorry ,, thank , sitting away from the screen

246 jorline  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:56:53am

What a game...OS intercepts a Navy 2 point conversion...2 points OS.

OS 31 Navy 27

247 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:57:11am

re: #227 jcm

I wonder what he really thinks of POTUS.

Not interested. Just hope Byrd starts to miss his homestate.

248 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:57:31am

Meanwhile, on the Deuce ... Syracuse leads Minnesota 20-17

249 Gang of One  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:57:52am

re: #239 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Did you notice he forgot the capitalization AND apostrophe in I'll?

/Freudian, or deliberate?

Both. SJ is a misguided, indoctrinated child.

250 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:57:54am

re: #248 _RememberTonyC

Meanwhile, on the Deuce ... Syracuse leads Minnesota 20-17

Pualus looks good!

251 Ringo the Gringo  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:57:57am

Even when Glen Beck says something that is 100% true, he says it in such an embarrassingly stupid, over-the-top, cringe-inducing manner that you a feel sorry for him...almost.

The man is quite simply a clown.

He's the Right's Keith Olbermann, only worse.

252 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:58:01am

re: #246 jorline

What a game...OS intercepts a Navy 2 point conversion...2 points OS.

OS 31 Navy 27

Not bad. Navy would have tied and turned over--now they get the ball back, and within striking range. C'mon guys!

253 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:58:18am

re: #216 SpaceJesus

spacejesus is going to out to lunch, been fun...
FTFY.

254 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:58:47am

re: #130 SpaceJesus

minorities were systematically forced by the state and society into the lowest possible rung on the economic ladder for generations. this created a cycle of poverty, low self-worth and disadvantage among minorities that persists today. while i would love to have perfect competition between americans for things in life, it is entirely unfair to want this kind of competition when millions of minority americans are forced to start out at a disadvantage in life because of the near permanent damage the state and society did to their parents and ancestors. affirmative action may not be a perfect solution, but it's the only way to right the wrongs of the past.

I think the need for affirmative action has passed, but I also think it was the best thing to do at the time and that the US is better off today as a result. It may not fit squarley with traditional capitalist theory, but neither did slavery, de facto slavery, government forced segregation, etc... .

255 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:58:49am

re: #252 haakondahl

Not bad. Navy would have tied and turned over--now they get the ball back, and within striking range. C'mon guys!

No,, Navy had to kick off after threir TD (the extra point doesn;t nullify that)

256 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:58:52am

re: #250 sattv4u2

Pualus looks good!


he has ... but can he play defense too?

257 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:59:16am

gotta run for awhile ... BBL

258 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:59:28am

re: #256 _RememberTonyC

he has ... but can he play defense too?

Or hit the three pointer ,,, umm,, oooppsss!!

259 Diego  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:59:56am

 
FFS people! Can we PLEASE get back to insulting Beck?!! >:(

:P

260 jcm  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:00:12pm

re: #247 haakondahl

Not interested. Just hope Byrd starts to miss his homestate.

W. Byrdland? The sooner the better!

261 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:00:30pm

re: #247 haakondahl

Take me Send him home/
Country Roads
To the Place
He Belongs, West Virginia...

262 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:00:52pm

re: #251 Ringo the Gringo

Even when Glen Beck says something that is 100% true, he says it in such an embarrassingly stupid, over-the-top, cringe-inducing manner that you a feel sorry for him...almost.

The man is quite simply a clown.

He's the Right's Keith Olbermann, only worse.

Beck is certainly a nutcase but if I had to listen to him or Olbermann I'd have to pick Beck.

Olbermann just comes off as 'I am so damn much smarter than you' even though most of what he spews is pure gibberish.

263 Gang of One  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:01:07pm

re: #254 Flyers1974

I think the need for affirmative action has passed, but I also think it was the best thing to do at the time and that the US is better off today as a result. It may not fit squarley with traditional capitalist theory, but neither did slavery, de facto slavery, government forced segregation, etc... .

What organization was it in the 60s and70s that ran a campaign "We're not lookinig for a hand-out, just a hand"? Whatever happened to that mentality -- give us a shot at the dream, not free [tax paid-for] everything?

264 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:01:17pm

re: #175 Salamantis

The perpetuation of affirmative action in the age of Obama seems to be based upon the soft bigotry of low expectations - and furthermore, judging by who are currently our President and our dominant media mogul (Obama & Oprah), those expectations would seem to be set illegitimately low.

I think it has to do with Affirmative Action being difficult to get rid of once in place.

265 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:01:46pm

Please note: I ladled on the sarcasm pretty thick in this post, but there's a very serious point here too: Glenn Beck's connections to Truthers are far more extensive and direct than Van Jones'.

It's not just Ron Paul. I didn't even bring up the fact that he frequently lets Judge Andrew Napolitano host his show, when Napolitano is a close friend of Truther Alex Jones.

266 Gang of One  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:01:48pm

re: #259 Diego

 
FFS people! Can we PLEASE get back to insulting Beck?!! >:(

:P


That was actually funny.

267 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:01:50pm

re: #262 Van Helsing

With Olbermann, you get the mean factor, which is a lot worse.
With Beck, it's just fruitcake.

268 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:02:11pm

FBV and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Week...

Can I borrow a dollar?

269 jorline  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:02:13pm

re: #252 haakondahl

Not bad. Navy would have tied and turned over--now they get the ball back, and within striking range. C'mon guys!

My typing skills suck especially when it's a close game like this.

OS's ball :35 seconds left. One hell of a game Navy!

270 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:02:34pm

re: #267 tradewind

With Olbermann, you get the mean factor, which is a lot worse.
With Beck, it's just fruitcake.

Yes! Well said.

271 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:03:03pm

re: #264 Flyers1974

I think it has to do with Affirmative Action being difficult to get rid of once in place.

Oh my ,, I didn;t think about that. Imagine MLK's vision (judge not by the color,,,) and use THAT as the impetus to get rid of AA. The Lefty Head Explosions would be heard on Pluto!

272 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:03:32pm

re: #265 Charles

Then he's just nuts, because I can remember hearing him diss the Truthers as America haters a long time ago.

273 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:03:53pm

re: #268 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

FBV and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Week...

Can I borrow a dollar?

I don't have a dollar. I only have 4 quarters, sorry!

274 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:04:08pm

[R. Lee Ermey voice]
Well, Ho-Lee Shit!

blueherron finally updinged something. What was it? The shit-spattered post at #196 in the previous thread.

275 Diego  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:04:15pm

re: #265 Charles

Charles, if you don't mind me asking, where do your political views most often reside? I've often been curious you see..

276 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:04:51pm

In terms of the whackiness of Beck vs. Olberman - there's a reason why they make both Pepsi and Coca Cola. Even whackiness comes in a range of flavors.

Beck's more fun to watch, at least for me, because he's just dancing right on the edge of full-on screaming hysterics a good chunk of the time. See, I like teh krazee soft-core, kinda classy-like.

277 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:04:52pm

re: #267 tradewind

With Olbermann, you get the mean factor, which is a lot worse.
With Beck, it's just fruitcake.

I totally disagree. Glenn Beck is promoting really bad people and causes. He's connected to Ron Paul, and has promoted the John Birch Society on his show. His recent show about the Rockefeller Building was taken directly from far right New World Order propaganda.

He's not just a fruitcake, unfortunately. He's a big part of the GOP's plunge into fever swamp craziness.

278 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:04:55pm

re: #271 sattv4u2

Oh my ,, I didn;t think about that. Imagine MLK's vision (judge not by the color,,,) and use THAT as the impetus to get rid of AA. The Lefty Head Explosions would be heard on Pluto!

I dunno. The left has done a pretty good job of convincing themselves that they ARE hewing to Dr. King's ideal.

They really, really think they are.

And they so obviously are not.

279 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:04:59pm

re: #238 Guanxi88

Affirmative action has all the corrosive effects in the body politic that titles of nobility would have IMHO.

280 John Neverbend  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:05:02pm

re: #267 tradewind

With Olbermann, you get the mean factor, which is a lot worse.
With Beck, it's just fruitcake.

The phrase "snotty-faced heap of parrott droppings" springs to mind.

281 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:05:03pm

re: #275 Diego

Charles, if you don't mind me asking, where do your political views most often reside? I've often been curious you see..

ummm,, in his HEAD ,, What part of your anatomy holds yours???

282 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:05:16pm

re: #275 Diego

Charles, if you don't mind me asking, where do your political views most often reside? I've often been curious you see..

Most often here at LGF. Check it and see.

283 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:05:18pm

re: #273 sattv4u2

I don't have a dollar. I only have 4 quarters, sorry!

Eh, just give him the quarters, and you can just owe him the dollar.

284 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:06:12pm

re: #279 Ojoe

Affirmative action has all the corrosive effects in the body politic that titles of nobility would have IMHO.

See, and that's a side of it I'd never considered. A de jure racial nobility to correct a previously existing de facto racial nobility.

285 Diego  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:06:21pm

Now, now lizards. You know what I was asking :P

286 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:06:47pm

re: #283 Guanxi88

Eh, just give him the quarters, and you can just owe him the dollar.

I am in agreeance.

287 Racer X  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:07:15pm

I need a beer. Who else wants one?

288 John Neverbend  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:07:20pm

re: #280 John Neverbend

The phrase "snotty-faced heap of parrott droppings" springs to mind.


...except parrot has only one "t". Sod it.

289 jaunte  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:07:22pm

re: #285 Diego

Lots of political issues, requiring lots of posts. Luckily they're up already.

290 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:07:26pm

re: #283 Guanxi88

Eh, just give him the quarters, and you can just owe him the dollar.

I'll give you two quarters for one slim dollar. Two is more than one.

291 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:07:41pm

re: #263 Gang of One

What organization was it in the 60s and70s that ran a campaign "We're not lookinig for a hand-out, just a hand"? Whatever happened to that mentality -- give us a shot at the dream, not free [tax paid-for] everything?

I don't know what heppened to the mentality and who had it and who lost it, but I think programs like this should be examined on the totality of their cost and impact, not only by looking at those who abuse them. There are losers and assholes associated with this. But that's not the whole story.

292 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:07:43pm

re: #283 Guanxi88

Eh, just give him the quarters, and you can just owe him the dollar.

re: #286 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I am in agreeance.


Okay ,, but he;'ll have to come and get em, and that'll cost him WAY more than 1 dollar and 4 quarters!

293 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:07:55pm

Charles- going through and reading that Six Word Motto Contest thread- there are really a lot of racist comments from jeppo. I don't know if you want to leave them as a testament to why he was banned (he has major down dings) or you want to clean up some of that fascist bastard's crap. I might report some of that stuff.

294 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:08:00pm

re: #287 Racer X

I need a beer. Who else wants one?

Don't mind if I do!

295 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:08:02pm

re: #284 Guanxi88

It's like your Mama always told you after you retaliated in some way as a kid:
' Two wrongs don't make a right '.**
**Except in Affirmative Action Land.

296 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:08:04pm

re: #287 Racer X

I need a beer. Who else wants one?

I do,,, but I doubt my boss will like you!

297 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:08:06pm

re: #285 Diego

My guess is centrist -- "left" on some things, "right" on others

298 Salamantis  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:08:09pm

Affirmative action was naively and wrongly intended to be a contemporary recycling of Noblesse Oblige. Now, Noblesse Oblige is laudable when it just means for the more fortunate to feel a societal duty to aid the less fortunate, whoever they may be, but when such assistance is predicated upon race regardless of individual need, it becomes the racially odious and false doctrine once known as the White Man's Burden, because it illegitimately assumes an absolutely stratified society in which every black is poorer and needier than every nonblack - which is not only a false view, but one grounded in prejudice and bigotry.

The passage of antidiscrimination laws should be quite enough. We should just go ahead and provide assistance to the blacks who need it - and to the nonblacks who need it - without drawing gratuitous racial distinctions. If all other things are equal and two families are equally needy, their respective races should not be a separating and deciding factor.

299 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:08:11pm

re: #292 sattv4u2

You can always just mail it.

300 jorline  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:08:29pm

re: #274 haakondahl

[R. Lee Ermey voice]
Well, Ho-Lee Shit!

blueherron finally updinged something. What was it? The shit-spattered post at #196 in the previous thread.

blueherron is a piece of shit...nuff said.

301 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:09:09pm

re: #263 Gang of One

What organization was it in the 60s and70s that ran a campaign "We're not lookinig for a hand-out, just a hand"? Whatever happened to that mentality -- give us a shot at the dream, not free [tax paid-for] everything?

Was that UNCF? They always had level-headed ads.

302 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:09:13pm

re: #293 Sharmuta

Charles- going through and reading that Six Word Motto Contest thread- there are really a lot of racist comments from jeppo. I don't know if you want to leave them as a testament to why he was banned (he has major down dings) or you want to clean up some of that fascist bastard's crap. I might report some of that stuff.

Never mind reporting - I'll just go nuke all his comments from orbit. Should've done it a while back.

303 jaunte  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:09:33pm

re: #298 Salamantis

Like Noblesse Oblige, payment is exacted from the serfs, by the nobility, who derive the credit and the benefit.

304 Racer X  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:10:15pm

re: #296 sattv4u2

I do,,, but I doubt my boss will like you!

Sure he will. What does he drink?

305 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:10:24pm

re: #302 Charles

Never mind reporting - I'll just go nuke all his comments from orbit. Should've done it a while back.

It's the only way to be sure.

306 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:11:01pm

re: #304 Racer X

Sure he will. What does he drink?

My blood if I had a beer here today!

307 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:11:22pm

re: #302 Charles

Never mind reporting - I'll just go nuke all his comments from orbit. Should've done it a while back.

Might one call that ... an orbituary?

308 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:11:43pm

Pingemi is manning up pretty well.

309 Diego  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:11:51pm

 
In need of vittles, bbs..

 

310 Salamantis  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:12:08pm

re: #303 jaunte

Like Noblesse Oblige, payment is exacted from the serfs, by the nobility, who derive the credit and the benefit.

Yep; then and now, it's all paid for by taxes on the workers.

311 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:12:15pm

re: #287 Racer X

I need a beer. Who else wants one?

Well, sure! Thanks!

312 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:12:33pm

re: #302 Charles

Never mind reporting - I'll just go nuke all his comments from orbit. Should've done it a while back.

OK- I'll stop reporting them. I did find a quote of a nasty deleted comment I just reported for the quote.

Also- I noticed you changed the comment ticker to reflect negative comments due to deletions. A nice change (I can believe in).

313 Gang of One  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:13:37pm

re: #274 haakondahl

[R. Lee Ermey voice]
Well, Ho-Lee Shit!

blueherron finally updinged something. What was it? The shit-spattered post at #196 in the previous thread.

Up-ding for the R.Lee Ermey. I can hear it ever so vividly.

314 haakondahl  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:13:45pm

Night, all.

Fascists.

315 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:14:04pm

re: #295 tradewind

It's like your Mama always told you after you retaliated in some way as a kid:
' Two wrongs don't make a right '.**
.

My mama always told me to make sure I finished it. She said there's no point in retaliating unless you're sure that you land the last blow.

316 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:14:36pm

re: #312 Sharmuta

changed the comment ticker to reflect negative comments due to deletions

Hmm ,,, don't get it, enlighten me, sounds interesting.

317 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:14:55pm

re: #315 Guanxi88

My mama always told me to make sure I finished it. She said there's no point in retaliating unless you're sure that you land the last blow.

Monica Lewinskys mom told her the same thing!

318 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:15:07pm

re: #310 Salamantis

Yep; then and now, it's all paid for by taxes on the workers.

Then it was a tax on all the workers, not just 55% of them.

319 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:15:47pm

re: #317 sattv4u2

Monica Lewinskys mom told her the same thing!

ya know, it just never gets old.

320 Gang of One  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:15:48pm

re: #287 Racer X

I need a beer. Who else wants one?

Holy shit, I just heard a Corona calling my name. You're scaring me ...

321 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:16:15pm

re: #317 sattv4u2

Monica Lewinskys mom told her the same thing!

Yeah, but she got creamed.

322 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:16:44pm

I was very disappointed to hear that Thomas Sowell has signed on to the "Obama's going to brainwash our children!" crowd.

323 Erik The Red  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:16:45pm

Good Afternoon Lizards. I am watching college ball, drinking beer, eating pizza and anxiously awaiting Charles' post on RW. How are all of you?

324 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:16:45pm

re: #321 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Yeah, but she got creamed.

in bed

325 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:16:53pm

re: #271 sattv4u2

Oh my ,, I didn;t think about that. Imagine MLK's vision (judge not by the color,,,) and use THAT as the impetus to get rid of AA. The Lefty Head Explosions would be heard on Pluto!

Those on the left are currently against getting rid of it because it has been a part of liberal orthodoxy for so long (and for good reasons in my opinion) and because getting rid of it will be politically difficult. It will go, when and by what process is beyond me. But bear in mind, the right was against it for reasons of knee-jerk orthodoxy and political expediency and in my opinion, a willful ignorance of what private and government enforced discrimination did to blacks.

326 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:16:55pm

re: #316 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Hmm ,,, don't get it, enlighten me, sounds interesting.

One I found was this person:

Karma: -152

Heynow
This user is blocked.

Registered since: Jan 3, 2008 at 11:15 am
No. of comments posted: -57
No. of links posted: 0

Instead of 0 comments and -152 karma, I can see how many comments to karma this troll had over all.

327 Erik The Red  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:17:32pm

re: #323 Erik The Red

Good Afternoon Lizards. I am watching college ball, drinking beer, eating pizza and anxiously awaiting Charles' post on RW. How are all of you?


RS
PIMF

328 Quilly Mammoth  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:18:06pm

Part of the problem is that the internet has enabled the krazies to have a wide reach. About every Administration has had members of the opposing political horde concoct and buy into a conspiracy. As the internet has grown, so has the clout of conspiracy whackos.

Birthers--mostly people who are afraid of and usually hate Barak Obama
Troofers-- people who often feared and hated bush
Mena-ers--People who feared and hated Bill Clinton. A vast criminal network that smuggled in Cocaine to Mena Ark and killed top government officials.

By the time that you get to 1992 there are still conspiracy loons. But their voice was small; usually limited to handing out pamphlets. George H W Bush (41) was a secret Nazi, he brought over 50,000 former Nazi because of his Dad and was setting up the New World Order.

Ronald Reagan and the NWO conspired with the mullahs to beat Jimmy Carter. It's been pretty much debunked. But remember that this theory, first publicly thrown out by the Lyndon LaRouche magazine Executive Intelligence Review in 1980 didn't gain traction until 1987 when Christopher Hitchens, who was pissed about Iran-Contra, gave the story wide spread attention.

Jimmy Carter, and his whole senior staff, were members of the Tri-Lateral Commission and the support of Coke's J. Paul Austin for him was engineered by The Rockefellers to put Carter in the Presidency. A lot of Republicans believed that.

And on and on. Did you know that Nixon created secret action teams to influence world events? I remember an Compuserv discussion where an old book about that was brought up and people tried to link Oliver North to it! Even twenty years ago the 'net had nutz.

But not until the Intra-tubes became so popular have these conspiracy cranks gotten so much clout. Luckily most of our elected officials and politicians stay far away, and when confronted by them usually denounce them. As Barney Franks did so forcefully about the allegations that the US conspired to kill journalists. Sadly, we saw a Republican Congressman refuse to denounce the Birthers.

And I'm not sure that claiming Ron Paul supports the Troofers is very sarcastic at all. and the only way to get the whiff of Crankdom off you is to refuse to be associated with people who support conspiracy theories like the Birthers and Troofers...which is why it isn't sarcastic either to think Glenn Beck believes that as well because of his constant interviews with Ron Paul.

329 jaunte  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:18:07pm

re: #322 Charles

I was very disappointed to hear that Thomas Sowell has signed on to the "Obama's going to brainwash our children!" crowd.

That is too bad.

330 Salamantis  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:18:18pm

re: #318 Van Helsing

Then it was a tax on all the workers, not just 55% of them.

Which led to some of the poorer ones starving, or applying for assistance themselves. There is a poverty line human misery reason for progressive taxation.

331 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:18:24pm

re: #322 Charles

I was very disappointed to hear that Thomas Sowell has signed on to the "Obama's going to brainwash our children!" crowd.

It is disappointing, but following the money- it's not surprising.

332 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:19:24pm

re: #326 Sharmuta

Instead of 0 comments and -152 karma, I can see how many comments to karma this troll had over all.

Ah HA!
Now I get it. Thanks.

333 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:21:14pm

re: #332 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I feel so much better knowing someone is keeping count.
///

334 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:22:12pm

re: #332 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Ah HA!
Now I get it. Thanks.

And now we see this:

Karma: -708

jeppo
This user is blocked.

Registered since: Aug 11, 2007 at 9:41 am
No. of comments posted: -387
No. of links posted: 20

That's awesome.

335 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:23:19pm

re: #331 Sharmuta

It is disappointing, but following the money- it's not surprising.

He also signed on to the death panel meme. [sigh]

336 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:23:30pm

re: #325 Flyers1974

Those on the left are currently against getting rid of it because it has been a part of liberal orthodoxy for so long (and for good reasons in my opinion) and because getting rid of it will be politically difficult. It will go, when and by what process is beyond me. But bear in mind, the right was against it for reasons of knee-jerk orthodoxy and political expediency and in my opinion, a willful ignorance of what private and government enforced discrimination did to blacks.

I'd have to disagree.
A) At the risk of sounding indelicate, as long as there is a seperate class of peoples in a minority that is benifitting by a gov't program there is no way it could even be legisalted out without the majority being labeled as racists for CENTURIES to come.
B) As someone upthread mentioned, what should have been worked at was Dr. Kings dream, NOT mandated by a gov;t entity, (other than an employer could not discriminate on the basis of race, creed, nor sex) but rather by education. You will never legisalte out racism or bigiotry. In fact, it can be argueed that AA made those deeper by resentment.

337 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:25:17pm

re: #277 Charles

I haven't seen his show in a while, I didn't know he was pushing the Birchers.
Actually, I didn't realize there still were Birchers.
/Oh well./
Gonna have to start tuning in again, but I hate watching people do stuff that makes me feel embarrassed for them.

338 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:25:59pm

re: #337 tradewind


Gonna have to start tuning in again, but I hate watching people do stuff that makes me feel embarrassed for them.

Damned empathy! Me, I think it's sound value for my entertainment dollar.

339 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:26:53pm

re: #335 Gus 802

He also signed on to the death panel meme. [sigh]

I just want to shake him, but he's in bed with organizations that take fundie money. That's too bad, and one of the reasons I prefer independent conservative writers. If special interests are slipping them money, they're going to expect services.

340 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:27:02pm

re: #334 Sharmuta

SpacedJuice's ratio is currently -1,632 for 905 comments.
Not doin' too bad! ... *salute*

(heh)

341 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:28:14pm

re: #340 pre-Boomer Marine brat

SpacedJuice's ratio is currently -1,632 for 905 comments.
Not doin' too bad! ... *salute*

(heh)

He was flirting with 2000 before, so he's made some good comments here and there to be "up" to -1600-ish.

342 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:28:15pm

re: #340 pre-Boomer Marine brat

SpacedJuice's ratio is currently -1,632 for 905 comments.
Not doin' too bad! ... *salute*

(heh)

Hey, you don't get stats like that without working for them.

343 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:28:26pm

re: #298 Salamantis

Affirmative action was naively and wrongly intended to be a contemporary recycling of Noblesse Oblige. Now, Noblesse Oblige is laudable when it just means for the more fortunate to feel a societal duty to aid the less fortunate, whoever they may be, but when such assistance is predicated upon race regardless of individual need, it becomes the racially odious and false doctrine once known as the White Man's Burden, because it illegitimately assumes an absolutely stratified society in which every black is poorer and needier than every nonblack - which is not only a false view, but one grounded in prejudice and bigotry.

The passage of antidiscrimination laws should be quite enough. We should just go ahead and provide assistance to the blacks who need it - and to the nonblacks who need it - without drawing gratuitous racial distinctions. If all other things are equal and two families are equally needy, their respective races should not be a separating and deciding factor.

Its hard if not impossible to disagree with the idea that those who don't need it should not benefit from AA. I don't know if there was a practical alternative, considering political and legal realities.

344 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:28:49pm

re: #338 Guanxi88

At the risk of sounding sexist, I think it must be a Mom thing... men don't seem to have the same gene when it comes to hating other peoples' discomfort in public.

345 Racer X  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:28:54pm

re: #337 tradewind

I haven't seen his show in a while, I didn't know he was pushing the Birchers.
Actually, I didn't realize there still were Birchers.
/Oh well./
Gonna have to start tuning in again, but I hate watching people do stuff that makes me feel embarrassed for them.

We call that a "Biden". As in "Darn it Bill, you're biden again". Also as "Mary, if you weren't such a biden, you would have more friends".

346 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:29:44pm

re: #344 tradewind

At the risk of sounding sexist, I think it must be a Mom thing... men don't seem to have the same gene when it comes to hating other peoples' discomfort in public.

No, you may be right about that. Nothing sexist in observing the observable differences.

347 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:31:05pm

re: #330 Salamantis

Which led to some of the poorer ones starving, or applying for assistance themselves. There is a poverty line human misery reason for progressive taxation.

I don't deny that at all. I think that everyone needs to pay something - a token amount - just as a reminder that the services provided by the government are not free.

And I truly mean a token amount, a fraction of a percent.

348 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:31:18pm

re: #345 Racer X

That anything like "Munsoned"?

349 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:31:22pm

re: #345 Racer X

See, I don't think Biden ever feels embarrassed... I think he thinks he's hilarious, articulate, and entertaining. So I have no problem watching and laughing at his antics.

350 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:31:31pm

re: #344 tradewind

Also, I imagine part of it goes back to childhood play patterns. As a young lad, I was never jollier than when observing the failures and idiocies of my peers and playmates, who took a similar pleasure every time I ran into a tree, tripped on a rock, or fell off something high.

351 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:32:53pm

re: #344 tradewind

At the risk of sounding sexist, I think it must be a Mom thing... men don't seem to have the same gene when it comes to hating other peoples' discomfort in public.

I dunno. I see a lot of women at wrestling and football games and full contact mixed martial arts events!

// just sayin!

352 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:32:58pm

re: #350 Guanxi88

That has to be it. I remember watching the differences between my boys and my daughter as little kids when they had a public booboo. Sympathy from the girls, and razzes from the boys.

353 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:33:39pm

re: #351 sattv4u2

I dunno. I see a lot of women at wrestling and football games and full contact mixed martial arts events!

// just sayin!

See, watching sweaty guys slug it out has been known to make the ladies kinda...

Well, never mind.

354 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:34:34pm

re: #351 sattv4u2

Yeah, but those women always look like they're about three sheets.
Just saying.
/If you're a woman who loves the ECW, please don't start... there may be exceptions/.

355 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:35:11pm

re: #352 tradewind

That has to be it. I remember watching the differences between my boys and my daughter as little kids when they had a public booboo. Sympathy from the girls, and razzes from the boys.

Got two daughters and a son, and I see similar things. Except from the middle daughter, who's surely a dictator or Leader of Destiny in the making. Gets her kicks outta imposing her will on others, and seems to lack shame altogether.

356 debutaunt  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:36:18pm

re: #355 Guanxi88

Got two daughters and a son, and I see similar things. Except from the middle daughter, who's surely a dictator or Leader of Destiny in the making. Gets her kicks outta imposing her will on others, and seems to lack shame altogether.

Wow - she has presidential mojo!

357 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:36:23pm

re: #355 Guanxi88

She may be a future senator from NY!

358 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:37:58pm

re: #339 Sharmuta

I just want to shake him, but he's in bed with organizations that take fundie money. That's too bad, and one of the reasons I prefer independent conservative writers. If special interests are slipping them money, they're going to expect services.

Right. Then it become a matter of whether it is due to peer pressure or financial pressure. Or whether he actually believes these things. This is one of the reasons I never raise people to the level of demigods nor idolize them -- I've been let down many times before.

Sometimes I wonder why public figures feel the need to speak and opine on every single issue they face. Sooner or later they stick their foot in their mouth.

359 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:39:08pm

re: #356 debutaunt

Wow - she has presidential mojo!

re: #357 tradewind

She may be a future senator from NY!

She even does these Mussolini faces that have to be seen to be believed. Really something to watch.

360 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:41:36pm

re: #336 sattv4u2

I'd have to disagree.
A) At the risk of sounding indelicate, as long as there is a seperate class of peoples in a minority that is benifitting by a gov't program there is no way it could even be legisalted out without the majority being labeled as racists for CENTURIES to come.
B) As someone upthread mentioned, what should have been worked at was Dr. Kings dream, NOT mandated by a gov;t entity, (other than an employer could not discriminate on the basis of race, creed, nor sex) but rather by education. You will never legisalte out racism or bigiotry. In fact, it can be argueed that AA made those deeper by resentment.

For what my opinion is worth, I don't think its indelicate, it sounds like a reasonable issue to bring up. I think some programs will go sooner than others depending on which authority controls, i.e., federal/state/or quasi, as in universities. I think the US congress will be the last to be in a position to do anything. It may come down to a SC decision. Also, I'm not sure the majority will be the majority for too long. AA has indeed caused resentment - no doubt in my mind whatsoever - and the Democrats paid a political price. For a long time, I think the benefit to the US as a whole was worth the resentment. Today, I don't think that is still true.

361 Pianobuff  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:43:36pm

White House Discloses 10 More Ethics Waivers for Administration Officials

Calling President Obama's Executive Order on Ethics for Executive Branch personnel "the strongest ethics standards in U.S. government history," White House counsel Norm Eisen on Friday announced 10 more waivers for Obama administration officials.

The waivers will allow the officials to participate with persons with whom and entities with which "the appointees formerly had a professional relationship," Eisen wrote, "because there was a compelling public interest in allowing it."...

More at the link.

362 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:44:29pm

re: #360 Flyers1974

I have a friend who is an ENT, and he happens to be African American. He swears that affirmative action has hurt the public's public perception of him as a first rate doctor, because some people assume he was bumped into a prestigious medical school ahead of others who were more qualified ( he wasn't, btw).
He wants it abolished.

363 ladycatnip  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:45:22pm

Mark Steyn on school kids pledging allegiance to Obama

Steyn gets it right.

Any self-respecting schoolkid, enjoined by his principal to be a "servant" to the head of state, would reply, "Get lost, creep." And, if they still taught history in American schools, he'd add, "Oh, and by the way, that question was settled in 1776." ...[snip]

No wonder the poor chap's running out of material. At the time of writing, one of his exercises for America's schoolchildren is to suggest what you'd like him to do in his next speech. Here's mine: Call in sick, sir. You'll be doing your presidency a favor.

The president is not our ruler but our representative, a citizen-executive drawn from the people. It is unbecoming to a self-governing republic to require schoolchildren to (to cite another test question) select the three most important words in the president's speech.
But, if we have to trudge down this grim road, go on, kid, I dare you: "That's all, folks!"

Oh, wait. You have to rank the three most important words in order:

1) Try

2) Something

3) Else

364 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:46:56pm

re: #361 Pianobuff

White House Discloses 10 More Ethics Waivers for Administration Officials

Calling President Obama's Executive Order on Ethics for Executive Branch personnel "the strongest ethics standards in U.S. government history," White House counsel Norm Eisen on Friday announced 10 more waivers for Obama administration officials.

The waivers will allow the officials to participate with persons with whom and entities with which "the appointees formerly had a professional relationship," Eisen wrote, "because there was a compelling public interest in allowing it."...

More at the link.

We're the most ethical except when we're not.

365 SixDegrees  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:47:02pm

re: #361 Pianobuff

White House Discloses 10 More Ethics Waivers for Administration Officials

Calling President Obama's Executive Order on Ethics for Executive Branch personnel "the strongest ethics standards in U.S. government history," White House counsel Norm Eisen on Friday announced 10 more waivers for Obama administration officials.

The waivers will allow the officials to participate with persons with whom and entities with which "the appointees formerly had a professional relationship," Eisen wrote, "because there was a compelling public interest in allowing it."...

More at the link.

We have the strongest - and most often waived - ethics standards in US Government history."

I'm so proud.

We're taking a page straight out of Russia's playbook on Kyoto: sign it, approve it...then ignore it like it's not even there and continue polluting like crazy.

366 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:47:08pm

re: #361 Pianobuff

Pelosi left out the 'waiver' bit.
It should have been 'the most ethically waivered administration ever".

367 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:47:24pm

re: #363 ladycatnip

Mark Steyn on school kids pledging allegiance to Obama

Steyn gets it right.

Steyn gets it way wrong.

Barack Obama had absolutely nothing to do with that video. It was produced by Ashton Kutcher.

368 jaunte  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:47:53pm

re: #361 Pianobuff

"White House discovers when you hire industry experts, they may have worked in that industry before."

369 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:49:47pm

re: #367 Charles

Wonder if Demi and Ashton are producing Obama's campaign video for his next run in '12...

370 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:49:57pm

re: #368 jaunte

"White House discovers when you hire industry experts, they may have worked in that industry before."

I dunno - he seems to have a variety of experts who've never done a damned thing. He himself is an expert on a quite a few things he's never had anything to do with.

371 shanec99  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:50:31pm

Are we suggesting that Glen Beck is a repented "Truther" who has now seen the light and corrected the error of his ways?
or
is he just another media opportunist?

373 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:51:03pm

re: #367 Charles

Steyn gets it way wrong.

Barack Obama had absolutely nothing to do with that video. It was produced by Ashton Kutcher.

So, Steyn go punked, did he?

I think he was conflating the Dept of Ed notes and guidelines with the creepy cult of Obama stuff from Kutcher. Probably deliberate, of course.

374 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:51:36pm

re: #366 Van Helsing

You'd think there'd be a limit on the number, kind of like the peremptories granted each side in court... you get just so many freebies, and then you have to take what's in front of you unless you have a damn good excuse.

375 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:51:57pm

OT

Tapioca pudding is very underrated, imho!

376 jaunte  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:52:23pm

re: #370 Guanxi88

True, but I'm looking at some of the consultants on that linked list, and it's not surprising they would need a waiver to continue talking to people in their area of responsibility.

377 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:52:57pm

re: #375 sattv4u2

Especially if it's made with dark chocolate.
:)

378 ladycatnip  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:53:13pm

I disagree. Steyn does get it right; regardless of who produced the video or the lesson plans, it's all about the principle. It's about not pledging servitude to a president. it's about not bringing politics into grammar school classrooms, it's about not sending any kind of political message to students whether it's being green, flushing or not flushing toilets, or whatever.

Grammar school is about learning the basics. If the prez wants to appear in a video JUST to encourage kids to do their best, then fine, I have no problem with that. But not accompanied by this stupid video.

379 shanec99  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:53:28pm

re: #367 Charles

Steyn gets it way wrong.

Barack Obama had absolutely nothing to do with that video. It was produced by Ashton Kutcher.


Who is this Ashton Kutcher?
What is his party affiliation?
Who funds his activities?

380 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:53:55pm

OT, but I now have Snow Leopard and want to know if anyone has had problems with Parallels 4 before I upgrade. It should be compatible, and it was just updated, but still, I want to be sure.
It will be a couple of hours before my Leopard backup completes; I always back up before doing an upgrade, even if I'll do the "backup and install" option.
My nic is blue if anyone has comments they want to make privately.

381 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:54:02pm

re: #376 jaunte

True, but I'm looking at some of the consultants on that linked list, and it's not surprising they would need a waiver to continue talking to people in their area of responsibility.

Of course; I was just being snarky.

These kind of relationships are unavoidable if you're trying to get real, qualified experts. It happens, it's not a big deal, usually, but by shooting off your mouth about your high ethical standards while having to sign waivers to actually get anything like the know-how you may need, well, it just makes you look silly.

382 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:55:15pm

re: #379 shanec99

Who is this Ashton Kutcher?
What is his party affiliation?
Who funds his activities?

In order:


1) A no-talent pretty boy.

2) Idiotic.

3) His wife.

383 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:55:33pm

re: #378 ladycatnip

I disagree. Steyn does get it right; regardless of who produced the video or the lesson plans, it's all about the principle. It's about not pledging servitude to a president. it's about not bringing politics into grammar school classrooms, it's about not sending any kind of political message to students whether it's being green, flushing or not flushing toilets, or whatever.

Grammar school is about learning the basics. If the prez wants to appear in a video JUST to encourage kids to do their best, then fine, I have no problem with that. But not accompanied by this stupid video.

Regardless of who produced the video? So you're going to bash Obama for creating a cult of personality based on that video, even though it was produced by an empty-headed Hollywood celebrity, and featured appearances by dozens more empty-headed Hollywood celebrities? You're going to blame Obama for something he had NOTHING to do with?

All righty then.

384 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:55:35pm

re: #379 shanec99

He's the kid who married Demi Moore, Bruce Willlis' ex wife. Starred in the tv show ' That Seventies' Show ' as a teen. Pretty boy, like twenty years younger than Demi. (NTTAWWT).
He's Big Hollywood establishment now, and he's been to at least one WH state dinner.

385 jaunte  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:56:04pm

re: #381 Guanxi88

I wonder if the waiver is for the whole order, or just parts.

1. Lobbyist Gift Ban. I will not accept gifts from registered lobbyists or lobbying organizations for the duration of my service as an appointee.[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]

386 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:56:21pm

re: #382 Guanxi88

LMAO, you put it so much more concisely. Good job.

387 Van Helsing  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:56:27pm

re: #381 Guanxi88

These kind of relationships are unavoidable if you're trying to get real, qualified experts. It happens, it's not a big deal, usually, but by shooting off your mouth about your high ethical standards while having to sign waivers to actually get anything like the know-how you may need, well, it just makes you look silly

Also indicates that you just might have been clueless about what it takes to do the job.

Speaking of which, meatland calls. Have fun kids.

388 ladycatnip  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:57:22pm

#373 Charles

Barack Obama had absolutely nothing to do with that video. It was produced by Ashton Kutcher

One more problem I have with this video is why on earth do we want to perpetuate the cult of celebrity with impressionable young minds? The last person I want teaching my kids or coming across as having any answers would be a Hollywood celebrity.

389 shanec99  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:57:41pm

re: #382 Guanxi88

In order:


1) A no-talent pretty boy.

2) Idiotic.

3) His wife.

This tells me nothing about his motivations, the probability that he may have possibilty of secondary gain or if he has a personal axe to grind. I ftequently take a look at these factors before I make a decision about something that is happening in the public arena.

390 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:57:46pm

Whatever happened to this video?

[Link: faustasblog.com...]

391 shanec99  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:59:04pm

re: #384 tradewind

He's the kid who married Demi Moore, Bruce Willlis' ex wife. Starred in the tv show ' That Seventies' Show ' as a teen. Pretty boy, like twenty years younger than Demi. (NTTAWWT).
He's Big Hollywood establishment now, and he's been to at least one WH state dinner.

So are you suggesting that he is an Obama supporter?

392 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:59:25pm

re: #389 shanec99

Whether or not the video in question came from the WH directly, does anyone really think that Rahmbo and Axelrod didn't know about and or approve it in advance? Given that they pride themselves on running such a tight media ship?
Really??

393 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:59:44pm

re: #391 shanec99

Like a jock strap.

394 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:00:24pm

re: #362 tradewind

I have a friend who is an ENT, and he happens to be African American. He swears that affirmative action has hurt the public's public perception of him as a first rate doctor, because some people assume he was bumped into a prestigious medical school ahead of others who were more qualified ( he wasn't, btw).
He wants it abolished.

It is a problem, no doubt and not one to be taken lightly. I can't speak for your friend of course, not knowing his age, location, etc..., but I'm pretty sure in my lifetime, blacks were excluded from or had roadblocks to enrolling in universities, and professional jobs, so they wouldn't have had to worry about public perception...but for AA they wouldn't have had the chance to be professionals in the first place. But I agree with him, it should now be abolished.

395 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:00:24pm

re: #392 tradewind

Whether or not the video in question came from the WH directly, does anyone really think that Rahmbo and Axelrod didn't know about and or approve it in advance? Given that they pride themselves on running such a tight media ship?
Really??

You're right, I forgot that Obama is almost omnipotent. Nothing ever happens without his knowledge.

396 shanec99  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:01:20pm

re: #393 tradewind

Like a jock strap.


Then I hope ole jug ears never gets excited... it might make things a bit messy for him.

397 Big Steve  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:02:00pm

Regarding the Obama School speech coming up. Our local schoold district was the subject of some news a year about when a Muslim student was beat up and the local CAIR group asked and was granted by a Jr High principal to come in and give a talk about Muslim beliefs. This was upsetting to the community and a local backlash occurred. However the school board created a new district rule that NO ONE who was not a paid employee of the district was allowed to teach or disseminate information without it being pre-approved by the administration. The upcoming Obama speech in fact falls under that rule so the district simply informed parents that they would not consider using the speech until after they had reviewed it PER DISTRICT POLICY...nice a neat solution.

398 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:02:57pm

Partial transcript of George H. W. Bush's national speech to school children on October 1, 1991:

Maybe you saw today’s headline, I don’t know if you had a chance to look at it, about the release of the new National Goals Report. Get the camera to come in and take a look at this for a moment. In math, for instance, this national report card shows that, nationwide, five of six eighth graders don’t know the math they need to move up to the ninth grade.

In spite of troubling statistics like this one, I don’t see this report, however, as just bad news.

What we don’t hear enough about are the success stories. You know, all over America, thousands of schools do succeed, even against tough odds, even against all odds. Kids from all over the District of Columbia petition to get into Alice Deal School here because parents know this school works.

We made a start nationally now by setting six National Education Goals to meet the challenges of the 21st century. By the year 2000, at least 9 in every 10 students should graduate from high school. We should be first in the world in math and science. We need to regularly test student’s abilities. Every American child should start school ready to learn; every American adult should be literate; and every American school should be safe and drug-free. Reaching those goals is the aim of a strategy that we call America 2000.

The bold text shows that then President Bush was injecting political goals into his speech. Note that America 2000 was a goal of the White House with a great deal of political maneuvering and standard congressional activity involved:

The Administration sent its America 2000 package to Congress last fall, after announcing the outline of the package in April. But instead of incorporating the proposal's main features in a new education bill, the House Education and Labor Committee last October reported out H.R. 3320, which largely ignored the President's strategy. Not to be outdone, the Senate this January passed S. 2, which also failed to incorporate the most significant aspects of the President's plan, and did little more than authorize $850 million for a now block grant for school experiments effectively controlled by the education establishment. The Senate bill is severely flawed. Because of unwise concessions by the Administration, the legislation contains only watered-down provisions for creating "New American Schools:' the experimental, "break the mold!' schools, intended to test innovative programs and approaches to education, and it allows little regula- tory flexibility for teachers and administrators.

399 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:03:05pm

re: #397 Big Steve

The upcoming Obama speech in fact falls under that rule so the district simply informed parents that they would not consider using the speech until after they had reviewed it PER DISTRICT POLICY...nice a neat solution.

Excellent. I always like to see neat solutions to problems that don't really exist.

400 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:03:53pm

re: #395 Charles

You're right, I forgot that Obama is almost omnipotent. Nothing ever happens without his knowledge.

I better button my fly!

401 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:03:55pm

re: #398 Gus 802

The bold text shows that then President Bush was injecting political goals into his speech. Note that America 2000 was a goal of the White House with a great deal of political maneuvering and standard congressional activity involved.

Shhh! Nobody wants to hear that!

402 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:04:32pm

re: #395 Charles

Sarcasm aside, of course not ' nothing '. But a media release made by a high profile Hollywood FOB?
It's just pretty unlikely that it wasn't run byEmanuel or Axelrod. They're proud of being such wonks when it comes to that stuff, and I can't imagine that Kutcher would want to incur the Wrath of Rahm... no more state dinner invites.

403 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:05:29pm

re: #361 Pianobuff

Attorney General Eric Holder and Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer previously worked for the law firm Covington & Burling; Deputy Attorney General David Ogden worked for Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale and Dorr LLP.

All three are permitted to cooperate and participate in the investigation into possible prosecutorial misconduct in the case of U.S. v Theodore Stevens even though government lawyers whose conduct is in question are represented by both law firms. The three otherwise remain recused from participation in particular matters with parties in which their previous employers represents a party.

Another conflict of interest?

Holder's previous job, after all, was as a senior partner with Covington and Burling - a white-shoe DC law firm that devotes considerable pro bono time to defending the Gitmo detainees. The job paid $2 million a year, and he expects to collect a like amount this year as part of his separation package.

As a senior partner, he undoubtedly had significant input on what kind of charity cases his firm picked up. He surely knew that dozens of lawyers from from his firm were among the 500-plus civilian lawyers representing the 244 or so remaining detainees (on top of military-court-appointed defenders).

Even now, his Covington colleagues continue to allege rampant torture at Gitmo. They're fighting hard to have detainees tried through the US court system - essentially given the same rights as US citizens. And their arguments and plans hinge largely on having Holder issue a bad report card.


[Link: www.nypost.com...]

404 ladycatnip  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:05:29pm

Charles, are you saying the WH had NOTHING to do with the video? Why on earth would it be shown in conjunction (either before or after) the One's address? Who put together and aproved the "educational materials" for the teachers? I don't believe for one minute that Obama didn't see this or approve of it. It begins with his likeness on it, it was about him [being such a lonely job...boo hoo], therefore, it would only make sense for the producer to send him a copy for approval. At least it would make sense in a sane world.

405 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:05:59pm

re: #389 shanec99

This tells me nothing about his motivations, the probability that he may have possibilty of secondary gain or if he has a personal axe to grind. I ftequently take a look at these factors before I make a decision about something that is happening in the public arena.

Look, he's a bandwagon jumper, pure and simple, a willing sycophant taken in, like so many others, by the cult of barry thing. Why wouldn't he want to ingratiate himself to the President with a fauning little piece of crap brainwashing video? It's not as if anyone really thinks he has anything useful to say.

Personal axe to grind? maybe. Possible benefit? he can steal some of barry's limelight for himself, the better to conceal and maybe even redeem his otherwise ridiculous situation.

Knock, knock!
Who's there?
Ashton.
Ashton who?

Without this, he's just the answer to #28 across on the NYTIME crossword puzzle in 10 years.

406 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:05:59pm

re: #401 Charles

Shhh! Nobody wants to hear that!

Yeah, I know. The rebuttal will be "but it didn't have a lesson plan." Perhaps not but it certainly was politicized by him injecting the America 2000 plan into the speech.

407 Big Steve  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:06:35pm

re: #399 Charles

Excellent. I always like to see neat solutions to problems that don't really exist.

It is a problem if school officials have to waste their time dealing with publicity regardless of their desire on the subject. No matter what answer they pick someone in the community is bound to be wearing a tinfoil hat on the matter.

408 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:07:08pm

re: #401 Charles

Shhh! Nobody wants to hear that!

Dick Gephardt (et al) made a big stink about it then also

Same sock, different foot?

409 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:07:14pm

re: #404 ladycatnip

Charles, are you saying the WH had NOTHING to do with the video?

What part of "it was produced by Ashton Kutcher" was not clear?

Why on earth would it be shown in conjunction (either before or after) the One's address?

It's not being shown in conjunction with Obama's address.

410 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:07:27pm

re: #404 ladycatnip

If it's the video I remember, it's been around for quite some time.

411 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:07:39pm

re: #399 Charles

Excellent. I always like to see neat solutions to problems that don't really exist.

Easier than fixing problems that really do exist. And far easier to build a record of success that way.

412 shanec99  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:08:01pm

re: #402 tradewind

Sarcasm aside, of course not ' nothing '. But a media release made by a high profile Hollywood FOB?
It's just pretty unlikely that it wasn't run byEmanuel or Axelrod. They're proud of being such wonks when it comes to that stuff, and I can't imagine that Kutcher would want to incur the Wrath of Rahm... no more state dinner invites.


Look guys, the success of any political movement is dependent on the movement's leaders to communicate with the population they seek to influence. It should not surprize you that the administration courts and gives priority to entertaining members of various media houses, even members who are as unaccomplished as Mr. Demi Moore.

413 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:08:57pm

re: #404 ladycatnip

Charles, are you saying the WH had NOTHING to do with the video? Why on earth would it be shown in conjunction (either before or after) the One's address? Who put together and aproved the "educational materials" for the teachers? I don't believe for one minute that Obama didn't see this or approve of it. It begins with his likeness on it, it was about him [being such a lonely job...boo hoo], therefore, it would only make sense for the producer to send him a copy for approval. At least it would make sense in a sane world.

I think you are conflating two stories:

1.) Obama's going to make a speech to schoolchildren next week

2.) Last week, one principal showed that video you are talking about.

414 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:09:34pm

re: #408 sattv4u2

Dick Gephardt (et al) made a big stink about it then also

Same sock, different foot?

The musical chairs of politics.

I think Gephardt was wrong. Frankly the insertion of America 2000 didn't sound like a big deal.

415 ladycatnip  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:09:44pm

#406 Gus 802

Yeah, I know. The rebuttal will be "but it didn't have a lesson plan." Perhaps not but it certainly was politicized by him injecting the America 2000 plan into the speech.

Did anyone ask the kids to pledge to "serve" Bush?

416 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:10:12pm

re: #412 shanec99

Well, look, of course he's going to try to gain every advantage he can for himself. But the guy's just a piker in terms of real dictator skills. He's scary not for what he is, but for these little hints he gives, through some of his stuff, that a full-on cult of personality dictator could arise in this country. It ain't Barry, but he has tapped into a portion of the sentiment that would support one if and when it does.

417 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:10:15pm

re: #412 shanec99

Doesn't surprise me at all, and I don't see anything wrong with it either.
I just don't understand their determined effort to try to maintain plausible deniability re everything that comes out and ends up blowing back in their faces.

418 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:10:45pm

re: #415 ladycatnip

#406 Gus 802

Did anyone ask the kids to pledge to "serve" Bush?

I'm talking about the upcoming speech. Is there anything in the lesson plan regarding a pledge to serve Obama?

419 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:11:48pm

re: #418 Gus 802

I'm talking about the upcoming speech. Is there anything in the lesson plan regarding a pledge to serve Obama?

Of course there isn't. There's nothing sinister or evil in the lesson plan at all.

420 SixDegrees  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:12:39pm

re: #397 Big Steve

Regarding the Obama School speech coming up. Our local schoold district was the subject of some news a year about when a Muslim student was beat up and the local CAIR group asked and was granted by a Jr High principal to come in and give a talk about Muslim beliefs. This was upsetting to the community and a local backlash occurred. However the school board created a new district rule that NO ONE who was not a paid employee of the district was allowed to teach or disseminate information without it being pre-approved by the administration. The upcoming Obama speech in fact falls under that rule so the district simply informed parents that they would not consider using the speech until after they had reviewed it PER DISTRICT POLICY...nice a neat solution.

So, have you gotten rid of all those nasty, heathen textbooks written by non-district employees? How about all the other audio-video material presented during classes - been through all that to ensure that every person appearing and every narrator is a district employee, and purged anything that violates your policy?

What bullshit.

421 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:13:04pm

re: #414 Gus 802

The musical chairs of politics.

I think Gephardt was wrong. Frankly the insertion of America 2000 didn't sound like a big deal.

I'm just saying. The political noise is way louder today than it was back in 1991. Look how more wide ranging cable news and the internet is. I mean, CNN was alomost alone. It was a mere decde old. All others were pale in comparison. but at the time Gephardts critisism was huge, relatively speking

422 shanec99  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:13:19pm

re: #409 Charles

Charles, because the piece was done by a Hollywood liberal... does that exclude WH influence on it?

There might be more to this than is obvious... don't you think? Kind of like Van Jones' association with the 'Truthers'.

423 ladycatnip  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:13:26pm

#410 Mandy Manners

If it's the video I remember, it's been around for quite some time.

Oops, I stepped in that one. ;-) It's all over my shoes! Thanks. I totally mixed my events. I do stand by my disgust at the video, and that Obama has seen it or approved of it, though.

**taking shoes outside to wash them off***

424 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:13:39pm

re: #419 Charles

Of course there isn't. There's nothing sinister or evil in the lesson plan at all.

No, there's not. Only a fool would think it was in there.

But, that the Secretary of the Dept of Ed should be so incompetent, careless, or swept up in things as to approve any kinda notes with even the slightest suggestion of a Dear Leader activity anywhere in them is troubling to say the least. That they edited the things shows that they reached a similar conclusion.

425 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:14:01pm

re: #419 Charles

Of course there isn't. There's nothing sinister or evil in the lesson plan at all.

I didn't think there was and was looking for a link at ed.gov. The only pledge is in the private video produced by Kutchner, et al.

426 avanti  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:14:54pm

re: #404 ladycatnip

Charles, are you saying the WH had NOTHING to do with the video? Why on earth would it be shown in conjunction (either before or after) the One's address? Who put together and aproved the "educational materials" for the teachers? I don't believe for one minute that Obama didn't see this or approve of it. It begins with his likeness on it, it was about him [being such a lonely job...boo hoo], therefore, it would only make sense for the producer to send him a copy for approval. At least it would make sense in a sane world.

It's a old video, has no connection to Obama or his speech. Where did you hear otherwise ??

427 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:15:43pm

re: #421 sattv4u2

I'm just saying. The political noise is way louder today than it was back in 1991. Look how more wide ranging cable news and the internet is. I mean, CNN was alomost alone. It was a mere decde old. All others were pale in comparison. but at the time Gephardts critisism was huge, relatively speking

Yeah, the Bush video was only about 20,000 dollars. There's no doubt that the volume has been increasing over time from both sides of the aisle.

428 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:15:52pm

re: #426 avanti

As usual, a day late and a dollar short (see 423)

:)

429 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:16:04pm

re: #423 ladycatnip

#410 Mandy Manners


Oops, I stepped in that one. ;-) It's all over my shoes! Thanks. I totally mixed my events. I do stand by my disgust at the video, and that Obama has seen it or approved of it, though.

**taking shoes outside to wash them off***

I fell on the floor laughing when I saw it here a while back.

430 ladycatnip  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:16:08pm

#426 avanti

See my #423. Still washing my shoes off trying to get the stink off.

431 Big Steve  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:16:11pm

re: #420 SixDegrees

So, have you gotten rid of all those nasty, heathen textbooks written by non-district employees? How about all the other audio-video material presented during classes - been through all that to ensure that every person appearing and every narrator is a district employee, and purged anything that violates your policy?

What bullshit.

Yes text books are reviewed in advance, movies and AV and the like are reviewed. The district has process for all of this as do most every other school district in the country. What per chance is bullshit about this?

432 The Shadow Do  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:16:22pm

Charles, why do you tease the nice patriots like this?

Are you and esotericist and a meanie pants?

LOL!

433 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:16:22pm

re: #427 Gus 802

Yeah, the Bush video was only about 20,000 dollars. There's no doubt that the volume has been increasing over time from both sides of the aisle.

That was my point.

434 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:17:18pm

re: #423 ladycatnip

#410 Mandy Manners

Oops, I stepped in that one. ;-) It's all over my shoes! Thanks. I totally mixed my events. I do stand by my disgust at the video, and that Obama has seen it or approved of it, though.

**taking shoes outside to wash them off***

Standing by your disgust is one thing, but on what do you base the second assertion? And what would it matter if he has seen it? And really, what would it matter if he liked it?

435 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:17:49pm

Geeezz ,, the ESPN guys are pains in the arse
((ooppsss, , remembering Tobny C excuded, of course !)

brb

436 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:19:33pm

re: #424 Guanxi88

No, there's not. Only a fool would think it was in there.

But, that the Secretary of the Dept of Ed should be so incompetent, careless, or swept up in things as to approve any kinda notes with even the slightest suggestion of a Dear Leader activity anywhere in them is troubling to say the least. That they edited the things shows that they reached a similar conclusion.

No, what it really shows is that the right wing is so desperately caught up in the fever swamp that they'll blow up anything into a huge fake outrage. There's nothing wrong with anything in the lesson plan.

437 BenghaziHoops  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:19:45pm

re: #435 sattv4u2

Geeezz ,, the ESPN guys are pains in the arse
((ooppsss, , remembering Tobny C excuded, of course !)

brb

Working for ESPN...A dream job...

438 ladycatnip  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:20:50pm

#434 wenchwrench

Standing by your disgust is one thing, but on what do you base the second assertion? And what would it matter if he has seen it? And really, what would it matter if he liked it?

Here's where Steyn gets it right and says it so much better than I could:

Any self-respecting schoolkid, enjoined by his principal to be a "servant" to the head of state, would reply, "Get lost, creep." And, if they still taught history in American schools, he'd add, "Oh, and by the way, that question was settled in 1776."

I'd feel exactly the same way if the video pledged allegiance to a republican.

439 rumcrook  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:21:22pm

re: #406 Gus 802

re: #406 Gus 802

Yeah, I know. The rebuttal will be "but it didn't have a lesson plan." Perhaps not but it certainly was politicized by him injecting the America 2000 plan into the speech.

is the America 2000 anything like the cherry 2000?

becuase I can get behind that//

440 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:21:59pm

re: #437 HoosierHoops

Working for ESPN...A dream job...

Unless you're like me

We have contracts with ESPN, RayCom Sports, Fox Sports, MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL, Jefferson Pilot Sports ,,, etc etc !!

ahhh!! the life !

441 rain of lead  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:22:01pm

re: #410 MandyManners
hey mandy!
how bout them vols 63-7
nice start
yea, I know it was just wku
let's see how they do against the rest of the sec
still, LOVED IT!

442 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:22:22pm

re: #419 Charles

Of course there isn't. There's nothing sinister or evil in the lesson plan at all.

Well, ok, as long as he doesn't talk about evil-u-shun or Gore-Bull warming or, God forbid, try to suggest that the kiddies get their shots.
/

443 BenghaziHoops  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:23:29pm

re: #440 sattv4u2

Unless you're like me

We have contracts with ESPN, RayCom Sports, Fox Sports, MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL, Jefferson Pilot Sports ,,, etc etc !!

ahhh!! the life !

It must be a bitch watching sports feeds all day at work..How do you survive?
*wink*

444 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:23:39pm

Anyone remember their schools days and returning from summer to that first day back at school? Any teachers, assistants or administrators online care to discuss the first day back?

445 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:24:05pm

The videos I really don't want to see made are those of kids marching in like little mind numbed robots chanting about Obama being the Alpha and Omega who has singlehandedly inspired them to get off their butts and do something...(as if he actually is omnipotent, in their minds ).
If they're inspired by the president, great, but that whole thing had a Jim Jones quality about it that was really creepy. I think people still have an aftertaste from that video in the back of their minds when they hear about Obama and the school children.

446 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:24:12pm

re: #436 Charles

No, what it really shows is that the right wing is so desperately caught up in the fever swamp that they'll blow up anything into a huge fake outrage. There's nothing wrong with anything in the lesson plan.

If it's a fake outrage, which of course a good chunk of it is, then Barry's foolishness and greenness is all the more clearly displayed by his modifying these innocuous suggestions.

I'm not saying he's trying to build a full-on cult among schoolchildren or anything like it; I am saying, however, that he and those around him can be heavy-handed and tone-deaf, and just throw fuel on the fire of whack-jobs, who need no help making themselves frenetic.

447 Big Steve  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:24:28pm

re: #436 Charles

No, what it really shows is that the right wing is so desperately caught up in the fever swamp that they'll blow up anything into a huge fake outrage. There's nothing wrong with anything in the lesson plan.

There is real truth to this...the faux outrage is getting incessant and creepy. However, the question is...is it working? It is hard to say. President Obama's approval ratings are slipping but those are fickle polls. There is clearly an element of the country that just doesn't like the guy but does all this smoke persuade others. My guess is that the GOP thinks that all of this is giving them some purchase...traction against Obama.

448 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:24:33pm

re: #439 rumcrook

re: #406 Gus 802

is the America 2000 anything like the cherry 2000?

becuase I can get behind that//

Planet America 2000! No. Never heard of that movie before. Did I miss out? /

449 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:25:52pm

re: #443 HoosierHoops

It must be a bitch watching sports feeds all day at work..How do you survive?
*wink*

I allow them to pay me for my suffering and misery!

450 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:26:49pm

re: #445 tradewind

The videos I really don't want to see made are those of kids marching in like little mind numbed robots chanting about Obama being the Alpha and Omega who has singlehandedly inspired them to get off their butts and do something...(as if he actually is omnipotent, in their minds ).
If they're inspired by the president, great, but that whole thing had a Jim Jones quality about it that was really creepy. I think people still have an aftertaste from that video in the back of their minds when they hear about Obama and the school children.


open at own risk!!

Youtube Video
451 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:27:02pm

re: #442 Shiplord Kirel

Well, ok, as long as he doesn't talk about evil-u-shun or Gore-Bull warming or, God forbid, try to suggest that the kiddies get their shots.
/

Or play-tech-tonics!

//Flood theory's the alternate.

/

452 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:27:03pm

re: #441 rain of lead

hey mandy!
how bout them vols 63-7
nice start
yea, I know it was just wku
let's see how they do against the rest of the sec
still, LOVED IT!

Yes, it was a thorough ass-kicking.

453 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:27:27pm

re: #451 Gus 802

Or play-tech-tonics!

//Flood theory's the alternate.

/

I think you've got that backwards.

454 shanec99  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:28:29pm

I believe many politicians start off as well intentioned, idealistic, some what naive, people who over time many of them sell themselves and compromise their original inspiration in order to get and maintain power.
Soon they become shells that bear a physical resemblance to the idealistic people they once were, but in reality they are attached to strings that are manipulated by interests to which they are beholden and filled with corruption that would make most of us gag.
I believe that our current President is one such person whose good looks, and marketability caused him to fall under the influence of powerful interests who do not have our best interests at heart.

455 rain of lead  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:28:34pm

re: #452 MandyManners

yes, I have found my hope and change

456 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:28:48pm

re: #450 sattv4u2

Yeah, I posted it a few days ago. ... it still boggles.
Just surprised they're wearing white t shirts instead of brown.

457 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:29:30pm

The lesson plan for FCBBHO's appearence did contain a requirement that kids tell him how to be a better president or somesuch. I got the link here the other day. That requirement was thrown out.

458 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:29:45pm

re: #456 tradewind

Yeah, I posted it a few days ago. ... it still boggles.
Just surprised they're wearing white t shirts instead of brown.

May be a different video then. The one I lionked to has them ijn black T's and camo pants

459 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:30:02pm

re: #438 ladycatnip

Here's where Steyn gets it right and says it so much better than I could:

Any self-respecting schoolkid, enjoined by his principal to be a "servant" to the head of state, would reply, "Get lost, creep." And, if they still taught history in American schools, he'd add, "Oh, and by the way, that question was settled in 1776."

All of this outrage because one principal showed a stupid video.

460 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:30:18pm

re: #455 rain of lead

yes, I have found my hope and change

Let's see how they do against Florida.

461 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:30:19pm

re: #452 MandyManners
Go Big Vols! Rocky Top Rules.
(Until the Alabama game, that is).

462 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:30:33pm

re: #453 Guanxi88

I think you've got that backwards.

I did? I was adding it to the list: evil-u-shun, play-tech-tonics. So the flood theory would be the acceptable McLeroy alternate. Something like that but who knows I might need more coffee.

463 Pianobuff  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:30:57pm

I found the proof. It was difficult, but here it is.

This is a real site. A real report. Right here.

An excerpt...

een van de redenen waarom het voor hen niet duidelijk was, is, zoals de opmerking van jones ons in herinnering brengt, dat er nog nooit tevoren in de geschiedenis een hoog gebouw met een stalen constructie door brand was ingestort.

In this section, Jones's observation that fire has never before caused collapse in a steel building like the WTC is discussed.

/

464 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:31:12pm

re: #458 sattv4u2

May be a different video then. The one I lionked to has them ijn black T's and camo pants

Is that the one where the kids are chanting about Alpha and Omega and FCBBHO?

465 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:31:21pm

re: #458 sattv4u2

Meant black.

466 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:31:31pm

re: #461 tradewind

Go Big Vols! Rocky Top Rules.
(Until the Alabama game, that is).

*whack*

467 shanec99  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:31:33pm

re: #459 Charles

All of this outrage because one principal showed a stupid video.


Charles... children are impressionable, and more often than not they respect and believe people in positions of authority.

468 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:31:44pm

re: #464 MandyManners

The very same emetic.

469 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:31:48pm

re: #459 Charles

All of this outrage because one principal showed a stupid video.

One video, one time, one school, and one state. I can't imagine what else happened in our schools that day.

470 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:32:04pm

This is the kind of love note I'm currently getting from good conservatives. Titled "Sharmuta, Killgore and Van Jones starring in "Charles Ass Rape 2.0":

Ace is really pounding your ass hard, Chuckie.

It's like watching a vicious rape - and i feel pretty damn perverted to
enjoy it.

But i do enjoy it, Chuckles. If i know of any nutcase pseudo-blogger
who deserves to be publically raped, it's you, Little Johnson.

Just wanted to let you know how i feel :) Shalom from Israel.

471 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:32:24pm

re: #467 shanec99

Charles... children are impressionable, and more often than not they respect and believe people in positions of authority.

Uh ... you're kidding, right?

472 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:33:12pm

re: #467 shanec99

Charles... children are impressionable, and more often than not they respect and believe people in positions of authority.

You haven't been a child for a very long time, have you?

473 brookly red  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:33:33pm

re: #467 shanec99

Charles... children are impressionable, and more often than not they respect and believe people in positions of authority.

and then there is Brooklyn...

474 BenghaziHoops  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:33:39pm

re: #452 MandyManners

Yes, it was a thorough ass-kicking.

Great win Mandy..But quite frankly..I think the Basketball program at Tenn is world class.. Pat and Bruce are 2 of the best coaches in America..
I'll never forget when Coach Bruce painted himself orange and supported Pat Summitt and the Woman's Basketball Team..That is what College sports are all about.

475 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:33:42pm

re: #459 Charles

All of this outrage because one principal showed a stupid video.

Many people see the instance of the principal as of a piece with the presidential address to the school children and the accompanying notes and such.

It's not correct, of course, but there are many who note a creepiness to many of the adulatory actions taken by followers of Teh One, and fear very much that the otherwise benign and even boring occasion of the president telling kids to work hard at school will be used as an occasion for Obamevangelizing by institutional lefties. The risk is there, as the principal in the story cited shows.

From their perspective, wrong though it is, Barry must be coordinating his stuff, because he and he alone benefits from it, and, in any event, he hardly needs to tell his acolytes what to do, since they seem all too eager to try to out-do one another in freelance worship of the Sun-God president.

476 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:33:51pm

re: #466 MandyManners

Hey, I have family who played for coach Fulmer... but even they know that during the Alabama game, the love is gone.
:)

477 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:34:34pm

re: #470 Charles

Sickos. Sick Sickos.
Sounds like DU on a bad day.

478 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:34:50pm

re: #470 Charles

Damn, what pathological monster wrote that?

479 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:34:58pm

re: #464 MandyManners

Is that the one where the kids are chanting about Alpha and Omega and FCBBHO?

Yeah. The "message" is good (("because if Obama I pledge to be the next {insert profession},,,")))

But after that, it's kinda creepy!

480 shanec99  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:35:04pm

re: #471 Charles

Uh ... you're kidding, right?


Charles... it is why many parents are outraged that the video was shown.

481 jaunte  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:35:14pm

re: #470 Charles

Good insight into some of your critics' inner fears.

482 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:35:25pm

re: #476 tradewind

Hey, I have family who played for coach Fulmer... but even they know that during the Alabama game, the love is gone.
:)

My first kiss was with a Bama fan.

483 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:35:56pm

re: #478 Gus 802

Damn, what pathological monster wrote that?

That's one of the worst, but there are lots more that are similar.

484 Altermite  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:35:57pm

re: #467 shanec99

Charles... children are impressionable, and more often than not they respect and believe people in positions of authority.

I'm going to favorite this, so I can laugh anytime you say anything without a sarc tag ever again. Because I'll know you don't really mean.

485 Big Steve  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:36:09pm

re: #459 Charles

All of this outrage because one principal showed a stupid video.

Inherent in Steyn's comments are that school age kids are natural doubters of authority. This is true. However, when the topic is teaching intelligent design or "Teach the controversy" instead of normal scientific evolution I recoil and worry kids are getting indoctrinated and won't have the wherewithal to challenge quackery. I guess I need to puzzle through whether I am being internally consistent.

486 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:36:16pm

re: #474 HoosierHoops

Great win Mandy..But quite frankly..I think the Basketball program at Tenn is world class.. Pat and Bruce are 2 of the best coaches in America..
I'll never forget when Coach Bruce painted himself orange and supported Pat Summitt and the Woman's Basketball Team..That is what College sports are all about.

I've heard that Indianans think they know something about basketball. Is that true?

487 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:36:43pm

Damn! I just got down-dinged by Charles.

Well, if it has to happen, it should be from him, I suppose.

488 rain of lead  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:36:45pm

re: #466 MandyManners

*whack*

if Tenn can win one of those two games (fla/ala) then it will be a good year, if both, then a great year

489 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:37:33pm

re: #479 sattv4u2

Yeah. The "message" is good (("because if Obama I pledge to be the next {insert profession},,,")))

But after that, it's kinda creepy!

Kinda' creepy?!

490 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:37:42pm

re: #487 Guanxi88

Damn! I just got down-dinged by Charles.

And I doubt I need to tell you why.

491 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:37:55pm

re: #489 MandyManners

Kinda' creepy?!

I was being kinda kind!

492 rain of lead  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:39:37pm

hey look,
Van Jones was a record producer
who knew?

493 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:39:56pm

re: #470 Charles

Ass Rape? Oh, noes!

494 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:40:03pm

re: #482 MandyManners

Best four years of my life, Tuscaloosa, where I learned that football is not a sport, it's a religion.

495 pink freud  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:40:59pm

re: #484 Altermite

I'm going to favorite this, so I can laugh anytime you say anything without a sarc tag ever again. Because I'll know you don't really mean.

Laugh away, altermite.

This is the tenet upon which prosecution is based in cases of abuse - primarily sexual abuse - by educators and priests and those in positions of authority.

496 rain of lead  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:41:13pm

re: #494 tradewind

Best four years of my life, Tuscaloosa, where I learned that football is not a sport, it's a religion.

yep, here in the south, we do loves our football

497 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:41:35pm

re: #470 Charles

Wow.

498 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:41:57pm

re: #495 pink freud

Laugh away, altermite.

This is the tenet upon which prosecution is based in cases of abuse - primarily sexual abuse - by educators and priests and those in positions of authority.

Bingo

499 BenghaziHoops  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:42:08pm

re: #486 MandyManners

I've heard that Indianans think they know something about basketball. Is that true?

I love Hoosiers Passion for Ball...They invented cutting down the nets...On Friday nights in High School gyms there is a passion like no other...
Is this Heaven?
No..It's Indiana

500 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:42:50pm

re: #499 HoosierHoops

I love Hoosiers Passion for Ball...They invented cutting down the nets...On Friday nights in High School gyms there is a passion like no other...
Is this Heaven?
No..It's Indiana

I see that same thing in Georgia for Football Fridays as well as when I was in Texas

501 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:43:15pm

re: #483 Charles

Can you tell if that really originated in Israel? It doesn't seem like something that you'd hear from there.

502 Big Steve  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:43:48pm

re: #470 Charles

That "fan mail" makes me feel like the "Soprano's" character Christopher Moltisanti when lots of the mugs got mentioned in the paper and were all flipping out that the FBI was going to arrest them...but Christopher was pissed because he didn't get mentioned. So I am jealous of Kilgore, Sharmuta for getting mentioned.

503 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:44:10pm

re: #501 tradewind

Can you tell if that really originated in Israel? It doesn't seem like something that you'd hear from there.

broad brush. You think there isn;t crazy in every corner of the globe?

504 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:44:32pm

re: #501 tradewind

Can you tell if that really originated in Israel? It doesn't seem like something that you'd hear from there.

There are psycho-assholes everywhere.

505 Chekote  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:45:04pm

I have been watching Van Jones videos on Hot Air. A lot of stuff on his lefty, marxist views but NOTHING on trutherism. Someone posted on another site that Kit Bond has called for hearings on Jones. This is going to be a mistake, IMO.

506 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:45:14pm

re: #504 MandyManners

There are psycho-assholes everywhere.

Yes, they are one of the most widely-distributed species in the world.

507 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:45:35pm

re: #504 MandyManners

There are psycho-assholes everywhere.

Not here now. I'm alone at work!!

oh ,, wait !!

508 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:45:36pm

re: #502 Big Steve

Oh yeah- because it's a real treat to have stalkers. I don't give a shit what they say about me since they're obviously deranged, but it's not as much "fun" as you think.

509 Big Steve  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:46:09pm

re: #487 Guanxi88

Damn! I just got down-dinged by Charles.

Well, if it has to happen, it should be from him, I suppose.

Guess you are that much closer to Space Jesus now...

510 BenghaziHoops  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:46:49pm

re: #508 Sharmuta

Oh yeah- because it's a real treat to have stalkers. I don't give a shit what they say about me since they're obviously deranged, but it's not as much "fun" as you think.

Amen Sister...

511 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:46:50pm

I'm disabling the contact form, because that psycho keeps using it to spew venom.

512 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:47:05pm

re: #508 Sharmuta

Oh yeah- because it's a real treat to have stalkers. I don't give a shit what they say about me since they're obviously deranged, but it's not as much "fun" as you think.

I don't envy you, but aside from sending a letter of this type to Charles mentioning you and KT, and them flogging the three of you on the stalker site, what else do you (and KT) have to put up with?

513 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:47:23pm

re: #509 Big Steve

Guess you are that much closer to Space Jesus now...

Aww, come on! It's not enough I get hit by the chief, you gotta run up and kick me in the shins?

514 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:47:29pm

re: #508 Sharmuta

(((Sharmuta)))

515 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:47:54pm

re: #511 Charles

I'm disabling the contact form, because that psycho keeps using it to spew venom.

Could you contact his ISP?

516 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:48:03pm

re: #512 sattv4u2

I don't envy you, but aside from sending a letter of this type to Charles mentioning you and KT, and them flogging the three of you on the stalker site, what else do you (and KT) have to put up with?

You, for one.

517 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:48:49pm

re: #514 MandyManners

(((Sharmuta)))

{Mandy} Thanks, Sweetie.

518 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:49:11pm

re: #510 HoosierHoops

Amen Sister...

{Hoops}

519 Big Steve  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:49:31pm

re: #513 Guanxi88

Aww, come on! It's not enough I get hit by the chief, you gotta run up and kick me in the shins?

Hey he's cuffed me a couple of times...you'll live. My father used to tell me that if you are not in trouble with the boss a few times a year, you aren't doing your job.

520 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:49:44pm

re: #512 sattv4u2

Have you seen the shit they spew over there?!

521 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:50:44pm

re: #516 Sharmuta

You, for one.

See ,, theres a silver lining to every cloud!

522 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:50:47pm

re: #520 MandyManners

Have you seen the shit they spew over there?!

Now they want to register the nics "Irish Rose" and "iceweasel" so they can play more sick sock puppet games.

523 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:51:01pm

re: #519 Big Steve

Hey he's cuffed me a couple of times...you'll live. My father used to tell me that if you are not in trouble with the boss a few times a year, you aren't doing your job.

In that case, I'm doing a bang-up job at my second gig; the boss hates me there.

524 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:52:07pm

re: #478 Gus 802

Damn, what pathological monster wrote that?

A typical Ace o'Spuds reader or commenter. That place is a disgusting pit filled with nothing but the dregs. Homophobia, misogyny and 'jokes' about homicidal violence are standard there.

Here's an example of a plea Ace made to his readers recently:

Please, a Favor

I know I dropped the "c bomb" last week, but that was something I don't do very often, and on top of that, I had no advertisers then.

I'm trying to get some advertisers -- with the lone exception of a Killing Time ad from blog-friend Pegu, I haven't made a dime this whole month -- and so I'd appreciate if people calmed down a bit with the language.

Yes, I know I did it. I am not assigning moral fault or anything. It was my bad.

But I would appreciate it if commenters cooled it on unnecessarily obscene language and statements that might, as they say, scare the horses.

[...]

A lot of obscenity... like f-bombs and "bullshit" is barely even obscene anymore, so ubitquitous(sic) is it on the internet. The ones to watch out for are the male and female versions of the c-bomb, tossing out "bitch" unnecessarily, angry gay baiting, talk of shooting and hanging people even in jest, etc. Some political correctness there, yeah, but consider that Netflix, for example, may not want an ad running next to a post with a lot of such sentiments.

I'm not saying write like angels. I'm just asking to tone it down a little, especially when it's just for the sake of angry venting.

Right. And shortly thereafter, when the poor baby STILL couldn't get any suckers advertisers, this is what he had to say by way of 'angry venting' about Contessa Brewer:

(WARNING MASSIVE OBSCENE LANGUAGE WARNING DO NOT READ IF YOU ARE EASILY OFFENDED-- iDub)

As I have noted with footnotes and authoritative citations previously, Contessa Brewer is a dirty, lying, pus-mouthed whore.

A cheap, sore-riddled nasty bit of gutterscrunge who'll rent you her mouth for the change in your pocket.

A tawdry wallow-trollop oozing with syphilitic fester who raises her filthy skirts at the scent of crack-smoke.

A disease-dripping pincushion, the media's vile mattress of last resort, a pathogen in garish vinyl high heels, a loose-toothed croup-breathed nightcrawler reeking of bathtub gin, fungicide, and the genetic stink of human desperation.

A skanky bit of mung-trash sloughing off diseased skin like a leprous snake. (A leprous snake who whores out her verminous cloaca for two bits a pop, I mean.)

This sad clown of a whore, oozing with foul custard and slack and sloppy as an over-used trash bag, is too stupid to know how to lie judiciously, and so lies promiscuously and wantonly, demonstrating all the discretion she once showed in junior high when her nickname was "Automatic" Brewer.

And that's why Ace is a fucktard who can't get advertisers, or readers, and why the disgusting people who read him send such disgusting hatemail.

Ace is whoring for traffic from LGF. He shouldn't get it.

(charles my apologies for reproducing the bad language; please delete if necessary. I wanted to expose Ace for the disgusting bastard he is.)

525 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:52:30pm

re: #520 MandyManners

Have you seen the shit they spew over there?!

Yeah ,,, and ,,, if they were saying that "shit" about me ,,,

Hell ,, I had employees that said shittier things about me (yet never on payday ,, odd)

I thought there may be something beyond the written word, like ID theft or something!

526 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:52:46pm

re: #522 Sharmuta

Now they want to register the nics "Irish Rose" and "iceweasel" so they can play more sick sock puppet games.

What's stopping them?

527 Chekote  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:53:30pm

Another "smoking gun" video from Hot Air about Jones.

Youtube Video
528 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:54:38pm

re: #524 iceweasel

Damn, I guess he doesn't believe in "leading by example." I've know this for a while though.

529 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:54:50pm

re: #526 MandyManners

What's stopping them?

I don't know. It should be obvious to anyone that neither of those ladies would register and comment at that vile site, but I felt it worth mentioning anyways.

Seems they've also been labeled a hate site, and many readers can no longer access it from work. Heh.

530 jaunte  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:54:57pm

re: #524 iceweasel

Ace is whoring for traffic from LGF. He shouldn't get it.


True.

531 rumcrook  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:56:04pm

re: #470 Charles

what the F***??

some things in life are a mystery...

I can only say wow me thinks more is wrong with that um, guy than just writing that bizzare screed...

532 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:57:12pm

re: #529 Sharmuta

I don't know. It should be obvious to anyone that neither of those ladies would register and comment at that vile site, but I felt it worth mentioning anyways.

Seems they've also been labeled a hate site, and many readers can no longer access it from work. Heh.

I'm glad they left me alone.

533 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:57:34pm

re: #532 MandyManners

I'm glad they left me alone.

Don't kid yourself- they rip on you, Honey.

534 Pianobuff  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:57:47pm

re: #527 Chekote

Another "smoking gun" video from Hot Air about Jones.

[Video]

I'll have to say one thing, all the internet searching going on in the last few days has turned up some pretty strange stuff, even if it isn't the stuff people were looking for.

535 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:59:26pm
536 Big Steve  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:00:09pm

re: #530 jaunte

True.

One of the the things I am trying really hard to do is simply not go to sites that are total FAILs. This is very hard because I am naturally curious to what opposites have to say. So it is hard to do. And it encourages sites when they get traffic no matter how short you stay. In fact I have removed the DailyKOS from my favorites and have just refused to even peek at them for this reason.

537 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:00:55pm

re: #528 Gus 802

Damn, I guess he doesn't believe in "leading by example." I've know this for a while though.

Actually, he does lead by example. He's set the tone and these are the kind of people he attracts.

I love this bit in his plea to his readers:

A lot of obscenity... like f-bombs and "bullshit" is barely even obscene anymore, so ubitquitous(sic) is it on the internet. The ones to watch out for are the male and female versions of the c-bomb, tossing out "bitch" unnecessarily, angry gay baiting, talk of shooting and hanging people even in jest, etc. Some political correctness there, yeah, but consider that Netflix, for example, may not want an ad running next to a post with a lot of such sentiments.

Gaybaiting is fine, it's the angry gaybaiting that isn't.
Ace is a douchebag.
Failed blogger.
Failed human being.
That diatribe about Brewer is what passes for 'wit' and political analysis over there. They're scum.

538 lostlakehiker  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:01:08pm

Trooferism is a symptom. Nobody comes to such views by the light of reason. It's a symptom of alienation. IF, if only such things were true, then the alienation would have grounding in fact rather than in psychological distress.

The alienation wouldn't be masked self-reproach for personal failures.

The alienation wouldn't be a pose, a way to tap a lucrative market: the genuinely alienated.

So the real question is, why do so many people feel so alienated from the mainstream culture?

Same question for the creationists, but I suppose at that end of the spectrum the reasons for the alienation are more understandable. Mainstream culture includes all too much embrace of the decadent, the sick, and even the revolting. Us mainstreamers are not all of us happy with that stuff, y'hear? We just are saying, evolution is real, 9/11 was real, the moon landing was real, Alar doesn't poison apples, vaccines are generally safe and effective, the U.S. didn't invent AIDS, the jews don't put baby blood in mazo, and perpetual motion machines never work.

539 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:01:17pm

re: #533 Sharmuta

Don't kid yourself- they rip on you, Honey.

Ignorance is bliss.

540 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:01:59pm

re: #533 Sharmuta

Don't kid yourself- they rip on you, Honey.

re: #532 MandyManners

But see. That was my point. Mandy is unaware of it because she doesn't go and look at it.

SHARM, I meant no offense in my asking. I was actually curious as to how the "stalking" affected KT and yourself.

I won;t pursue the matter

541 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:02:53pm

re: #535 taxfreekiller

odd

the use of ugly 4 letter words
to criticize someone for using ugly 4 letter words

but that's just me

Ace is a fucktard. That's 8 letters and I'll stand by it.

542 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:03:28pm

re: #540 sattv4u2

I was actually curious as to how the "stalking" affected KT and yourself.

It doesn't bother me. I'm used to it.

543 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:03:51pm

re: #539 MandyManners

Ignorance is bliss.

True. I've heard people at ace's spew crap about me, but I have no idea- I haven't hardly ever looked over there ever.

544 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:04:31pm

re: #540 sattv4u2

re: #532 MandyManners

But see. That was my point. Mandy is unaware of it because she doesn't go and look at it.

SHARM, I meant no offense in my asking. I was actually curious as to how the "stalking" affected KT and yourself.

I won;t pursue the matter

Stalking is stalking no matter if the target is aware or not. I just keep in mind that what someone says about me says more about him.

545 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:05:02pm
546 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:05:30pm

re: #543 Sharmuta

True. I've heard people at ace's spew crap about me, but I have no idea- I haven't hardly ever looked over there ever.

That's that Spade dude, right?

547 Big Steve  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:06:03pm

re: #543 Sharmuta

True. I've heard people at ace's spew crap about me, but I have no idea- I haven't hardly ever looked over there ever.

When I need a dose of belittlement, I just listen in to my wife talking about me to her sister on the phone.

548 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:06:06pm

re: #537 iceweasel

Gaybaiting is fine, it's the angry gaybaiting that isn't.
Ace is a douchebag.
Failed blogger.
Failed human being.
That diatribe about Brewer is what passes for 'wit' and political analysis over there. They're scum.

Yeah, I've seen what else passes for wit with the knuckle draggers on that other site I won't mention.

549 BenghaziHoops  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:06:49pm

re: #540 sattv4u2

re: #532 MandyManners

But see. That was my point. Mandy is unaware of it because she doesn't go and look at it.

SHARM, I meant no offense in my asking. I was actually curious as to how the "stalking" affected KT and yourself.

I won;t pursue the matter

Don't kid yourself..There are people over there looking to destroy peoples lives...Jeez just last week they published my name on the Internet to expose me..( kinky if you ask me)
It's not competition..Its fucking hate there...
You reap what you sow...

550 brookly red  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:07:02pm

re: #538 lostlakehiker

re; "Trooferism is a symptom..." Hmmm, interesting. I never though of that before.

551 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:07:13pm

re: #539 MandyManners

I agree. Why even go there? It just gives them publicity.
It's the Theory of Soggy Potato Chips: given a choice, children would rather have crisp chips than soggy, but given the choice of no chips or soggy ones, they pick soggy every time.

552 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:07:15pm

re: #536 Big Steve

One of the the things I am trying really hard to do is simply not go to sites that are total FAILs. This is very hard because I am naturally curious to what opposites have to say. So it is hard to do. And it encourages sites when they get traffic no matter how short you stay. In fact I have removed the DailyKOS from my favorites and have just refused to even peek at them for this reason.

The real problem is that there are no longer any sane blogs on the right. This place is the lone voice of reason for the centre right, and that's why we're seeing them go Full Metal Wingnut on Charles for calling out Beck, the Van Jones hysteria, and other assorted forms of lunacy.

I hate not having decent right blogs to read any more. They've all gone off the deep end.
I check memeorandum all the time and grab a random sampling of opinion from the right and left on everything. You might like doing that. At least it ensures diversity-- even if there is no one on the right sane enough anymore to bookmark.

553 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:07:20pm

re: #540 sattv4u2

I don't read it. I had some friends offer help in keeping tabs on them for me so I don't have to- it's better this way. I don't care what they say about me, but I don't need to read it. But the games they play with this community bother me, and they deserve all the scorn they have coming.

And if any lizard prefers to have extremists like rodan and savage for hosts over Charles- fuck 'em.

554 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:08:18pm

re: #549 HoosierHoops

Oh hoops... how did that turn out? Did it go away?
Hope so.

555 Chekote  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:08:45pm

re: #534 Pianobuff

Jones is a lefty. But after Rev. Wright's tirades I find him pretty tame.

556 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:08:58pm

re: #542 Killgore Trout

It doesn't bother me. I'm used to it.

Thanks KT. They don't leave you threatening voice mails, or spray paint your dog or anything. It's what they "say" about you on THEIR blogs, correct?

557 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:09:20pm

re: #553 Sharmuta

Thanks

558 Big Steve  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:09:40pm

re: #552 iceweasel

Full Metal Wingnut

Alone worth an upding!

559 Chekote  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:10:15pm

Are you guys talking about the Ace of Spades blog? Sorry, for the stupid questions but I am relatively new here.

560 Big Steve  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:10:58pm

re: #552 iceweasel


Have you tried Afrocity's site...very sane, stately, and intelligent.

561 Erik The Red  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:11:04pm

re: #553 Sharmuta

I don't read it. I had some friends offer help in keeping tabs on them for me so I don't have to- it's better this way. I don't care what they say about me, but I don't need to read it. But the games they play with this community bother me, and they deserve all the scorn they have coming.

And if any lizard prefers to have extremists like rodan and savage for hosts over Charles- fuck 'em.

Sing it loud Sharm. :)))

562 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:11:21pm

re: #559 Chekote

Yes- and also the stalker site known as lgf2.

563 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:11:23pm

OT

Homemamde Chicken/ Ziti/ Brocolli isn't nearly as good leftover!

564 Chekote  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:12:04pm

re: #562 Sharmuta

What's a stalker site? Boy. I am totally ignorant.

565 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:12:10pm

If Iowahawk is screwed up, I don't wanna hear it (fingers in ears... ) I don't read comments or followthe blog part of it , but his posts are so freaking funny, and he has a new one featuring that Topsider effete Hamptons guy... /pleasedon'tscrewupIowahawk/

566 Big Steve  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:12:37pm

re: #564 Chekote

What's a stalker site? Boy. I am totally ignorant.

Made up of people who have all been banned at LGF...

567 rightside  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:12:50pm

Oh noes! troofers on the planet! The end of the world as we know it! Heads exploding everywhere!

568 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:13:27pm

re: #564 Chekote

It's a bunch of banned users bitching and being vile. Like a hate mail turned into a blog.

569 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:13:37pm

re: #560 Big Steve

Have you tried Afrocity's site...very sane, stately, and intelligent.

Afrocity hangs out with the stalkers, and is not welcome at this blog.

570 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:13:44pm

re: #564 Chekote

What's a stalker site? Boy. I am totally ignorant.

You are posting on LGF

There is a site called LGF 2 where people that were banned from here congregate

Nuff said?

571 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:13:56pm
572 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:14:22pm

re: #552 iceweasel

Full Metal Wingnuts!

The punch line is that most of them are really Private Pyle on not Sgt. Hartman.

573 Big Steve  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:14:52pm

re: #569 Charles

Afrocity hangs out with the stalkers, and is not welcome at this blog.

well that is news to me...disconcerting to hear.

574 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:15:08pm

re: #569 Charles

Afrocity hangs out with the stalkers, and is not welcome at this blog.

Trying to play both ends from the middle?

575 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:15:38pm

re: #571 taxfreekiller

my guess you have one of them hear now playing dumb

could be. We'll soon enough see!

576 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:16:07pm
577 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:17:31pm

re: #571 taxfreekiller

Take it to the bank. How else do they get their ammunition?

578 BenghaziHoops  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:17:46pm

re: #554 tradewind

Oh hoops... how did that turn out? Did it go away?
Hope so.

Turned out well.. Everybody knows who I am because I had the nerve to defend Charles at their little fucking hate site...
Do you possibly think I care? Do you think I'm impressed with the I love Jesus Christians that attacked my life? They should back off and be embarrassed with this...It's cool...I have no issues at all about who I am or what I believe in... They have called me out...Maybe that wasn't the best idea..
You feeling me Rodan? This isn't playschool so back the fuck off...

579 Chekote  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:19:38pm

Thank you for the info.

580 Big Steve  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:21:38pm

re: #576 taxfreekiller

how many of the ones who think " full metal wingnuts" is funny
and have served and fired full metal jackets at other humans at night??

I do and I have

581 jhrhv  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:22:56pm

Ron Paul's appearance in Mit Bruno was great. I look forward to the day when Bruno gets Alex Jones and Glen Beck. When that day come Sacha Baron might have to rename his show Mit nut jobs.

582 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:24:25pm

re: #560 Big Steve

Have you tried Afrocity's site...very sane, stately, and intelligent.

Recently and I wasn't a fan. She was in the middle of a blogwar with one of the major feminist blogs and I have to say she struck me as a nut with some opinions I found very weird. To say the least. That was the only post I read.

I didn't realise until I read Charles' comment above that she hangs with the stalkers, which only confirms my initial assessment.

I don't read the site that will not be mentioned, although I hear I now figure prominently in their masturbatory fantasies. As with Ace, the best policy is to starve them of what they crave-- attention, traffic, to be noticed. Screw 'em.

583 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:24:36pm

re: #578 HoosierHoops

{Hoops}- those who know you know these people are liars. There is nothing they can say about you that would ever mean anything to me or anyone else. That's why I don't care what they say about me- it truly reflects more on them. The people who know me know my character, they know my heart, and they know my mind. There is nothing stupid words from haters can do to change that for me, for you, for Charles, and for all the other LGFers who get abused over there by them or at any other site. They're pathetic losers and they show it every day.

584 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:26:22pm

re: #572 Gus 802

Full Metal Wingnuts!

The punch line is that most of them are really Private Pyle on not Sgt. Hartman.

heh. So true!
They're all members of the 101st Fighting Keyboard Kommandos, too.

585 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:26:46pm

Not exactly your alpha and omega, but still entertaining...

Youtube Video
586 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:27:59pm

As if right on cue Instapundit links to pics of Today's Ohio Tea Party

Founded, organized, sponsored by and featured speaker:
Jason Rink

Jason Rink is one of the founders of the Ohio Freedom Alliance and is the Director of Education and Outreach for the group.
...
Jason is a contributing author in the recently published biography of Congressman Ron Paul, Ron Paul: A Life of Ideas. Jason’s work has also been featured on the website LewRockwell-dot-com.


Also a Truther...
9/11 Equations: The Math of Propaganda

For the record, I am a moderate “twoofer.” I believe that the 9/11 Commission Report contains some serious omissions and inaccuracies. This troubles me. Is smells like a whitewash. I don’t claim tho know who did what, or how it really happened. That’s precisely the problem. I want to know and so do the other 68% of Americans who suspect we aren’t getting the whole truth. We need a new, independent investigation.
...
Can you identify even one instance where the mainstream media hasn’t instantly lauded adherents to the “official” story as experts, and demonized the opposition as kooks? I can’t either.

Whether the “9/11 Conspiracies” program on The History Channel turns out to be a propaganda filled hit-piece remains to be seen. I know where I’d place my bet. Call me a nutjob, if you must.

The people who are complaining are not opposed to Truthers. They are promoting events organized by Ttuthers and the featured speakers are Truthers. They have no right to bitch.

587 redmonkey  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:28:16pm

Imagine a Van Jones in a Republican Administration

Imagine

Imagine it's September 2013 and President Palin is preparing to present her massive tax cut proposal to a joint session of congress. She's momentarily distracted by an MSNBC report that her Second Amendment czar, Sig Sauer, has a peculiar history: He was once (and perhaps still is) a Bircher who argued for the repeal of the 14th Amendment. He's also appeared on numerous radio and TV shows calling for the oppressive United States government to be transformed into a monarchy. Shortly before his appointment he was captured on YouTube calling Democrats "a**holes." Another YouTube video shows him ranting about "black gun-control advocates" who confiscate guns from law-abiding white communities. Back in 2009 he signed a petition published in the New York Post calling for the impeachment of Barack Obama on the grounds that he wasn't born in the United States. Sauer has even been arrested twice for participating in riots outside the U.N. and G-8 Summit.

Imagine that during a press briefing, a reporter asks White House press secretary Chuck Krauthammer how a radical right-wing racialist with an arrest record like Sauer could've possibly been appointed to a prominent White House position. Didn't President Palin know? Chuck dismisses the query, saying it's old news since Sauer has issued an apology contending that none of the forgoing actions reflect his actual views.

Imagine that the members of the press corps nod their heads collectively and move on to the more relevant issue of what President Palin will be wearing to the joint session.

Imagine. It's easy if you try.

588 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:30:06pm

re: #343 Flyers1974

Its hard if not impossible to disagree with the idea that those who don't need it should not benefit from AA. I don't know if there was a practical alternative, considering political and legal realities.

And, I'd like to point out that Obama has said just that, using his daughters as examples. Just saying. I think the thinking about this is evolving gradually.

589 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:30:14pm

re: #586 Killgore Trout


For the record, I am a moderate “twoofer.


No, it's an oxymoron.
It's like saying you're a little bit pregnant.
Not possible.

590 bloodnok  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:30:38pm

re: #587 redmonkey

I can't imagine Sarah Palin as President. But I'm not the only one.

591 Chekote  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:31:00pm

The Tea Parties are infested with Ron Paul people. But a lot of the people at the rallies are not truther. They are just concerned about bankrupting this country.

592 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:32:32pm

re: #586 Killgore Trout

As if right on cue Instapundit links to pics of Today's Ohio Tea Party

Founded, organized, sponsored by and featured speaker:
Jason Rink

The people who are complaining are not opposed to Truthers. They are promoting events organized by Ttuthers and the featured speakers are Truthers. They have no right to bitch.

Wow. The founder of the group sponsoring the Tea Party is a Truther.

Wow.

593 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:32:38pm

re: #590 bloodnok

I can't imagine Sarah Palin as President. But I'm not the only one.

Palin is my #1 current candidate of Right-Wing cult of personality leader. She's got just about everything it takes for that role.

594 redmonkey  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:33:20pm

re: #590 bloodnok

I can't imagine Sarah Palin as President. But I'm not the only one.

Do you have any sense of humor?

595 debutaunt  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:33:36pm

re: #589 tradewind

No, it's an oxymoron.
It's like saying you're a little bit pregnant.
Not possible.

Well, I was slightly pregnant until I became massively pregnant.

596 capitalist piglet  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:33:56pm

re: #457 MandyManners

The lesson plan for FCBBHO's appearence did contain a requirement that kids tell him how to be a better president or somesuch. I got the link here the other day. That requirement was thrown out.

They were going to be instructed to consider and discuss what they could do "to help the president".

597 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:34:05pm

re: #595 debutaunt

Well, I was slightly pregnant until I became massively pregnant.

in bed

598 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:34:13pm

re: #587 redmonkey

Bullshit. Republicans and conservatives are supporting 9-11 truthers at this very moment, attending their rallies and listening to them speak. The press is going easy on them.

599 BignJames  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:34:22pm

re: #593 Guanxi88

Palin is my #1 current candidate of Right-Wing cult of personality leader. She's got just about everything it takes for that role.


Haven't seen her in fishnets and leather yet...I'm reserving judgement.

600 bloodnok  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:34:23pm

re: #594 redmonkey

Do you have any sense of humor?

No. You might just say I'm a dreamer.

601 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:34:27pm

re: #592 Charles

Shocka!

602 brookly red  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:34:42pm

re: #590 bloodnok

I can't imagine Sarah Palin as President. But I'm not the only one.

There are a number of people who I can't imagine as president, funny thing is they are all running.

603 debutaunt  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:34:44pm

re: #590 bloodnok

I can't imagine Sarah Palin as President. But I'm not the only one.

I can't imagine Biden as President, either.

604 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:34:59pm

re: #599 BignJames

Haven't seen her in fishnets and leather yet...I'm reserving judgement.

wanna buy some photos., mister?

605 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:35:33pm

re: #362 tradewind

I have a friend who is an ENT, and he happens to be African American. He swears that affirmative action has hurt the public's public perception of him as a first rate doctor, because some people assume he was bumped into a prestigious medical school ahead of others who were more qualified ( he wasn't, btw).
He wants it abolished.

How can he possibly know whether he was or wasn't? They don't tell you such things. If he was and is qualified, that's sufficient.

I've heard similar stories from a lot of people. It's a concern, but I would insist it's also blatant racism to assume that a black doctor got an advantage over of 'more qualified' applicants. How do you know if your white doctor got a leg up from family connections, or through a regional diversity program? You don't. But it's the black doctor (or whatever) who gets the funny looks, and that is simple old-fashioned racism.

606 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:35:39pm

re: #586 Killgore Trout

As if right on cue Instapundit links to pics of Today's Ohio Tea Party

Founded, organized, sponsored by and featured speaker:
Jason Rink

The people who are complaining are not opposed to Truthers. They are promoting events organized by Ttuthers and the featured speakers are Truthers. They have no right to bitch.

Holy guacamole! A moderate troofer is like a moderate cannibal or a moderate amount of incest. There is, by definition, no tolerable threshold for them.

607 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:35:54pm

re: #589 tradewind

For the record, I am a moderate “twoofer.


...which is more than Van Jones will even admit to. The hypocrisy is astounding.

608 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:36:00pm

re: #603 debutaunt

I can't imagine Biden as President, either.

I just got a cold chill!

609 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:36:22pm

re: #608 sattv4u2

I just got a cold chill!

(((ummm,, as opposed to a hot chill ... DUHHH!!))

610 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:36:27pm

re: #587 redmonkey

Imagine a Van Jones in a Republican Administration

Imagine

Imagine it's September 2013 and President Palin

Had to stop there. That's when I had the acid flashback.

611 debutaunt  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:36:43pm

re: #598 Killgore Trout

Bullshit. Republicans and conservatives are supporting 9-11 truthers at this very moment, attending their rallies and listening to them speak. The press is going easy on them.

Why?

612 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:37:15pm

re: #611 debutaunt

Why?


No clue.

613 BignJames  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:37:32pm

re: #604 sattv4u2

wanna buy some photos., mister?

As long as they're the real thing...no photoshopping...Charles is an expert, you know.

614 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:37:39pm

re: #611 debutaunt

Why?

Sun Tzu says that is you see your enemy making a mistake, do nothing to stop him.

615 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:37:49pm

re: #587 redmonkey

For one, I don't think Van Jones has an arrest record. Two, this is still playing out and we have yet to see how the White House will react. This may take a period of time so don't expect to see them react immediately to public pressure -- which is common with either party.

616 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:37:56pm

re: #595 debutaunt

Hilarious. So was I.
Size is unimportant. What I meant was that you either get a positive, or a negative result**, there's no Clear Blue Easy that reads ' kind of ', or ' sources say maybe'. Same for troofers. You either know what happened... that 19 killer jihadists attacked us in a unique way... or you deny it, and are a troofer.
** As long as it's not too early

617 redmonkey  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:38:26pm

re: #591 Chekote

The Tea Parties are infested with Ron Paul people. But a lot of the people at the rallies are not truther. They are just concerned about bankrupting this country.

Truthers and Ron Paul people are very small minority in Tea party, but some people use their presence to discredit it.

618 Big Steve  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:38:29pm

re: #608 sattv4u2

I just got a cold chill!

was it up your leg?

619 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:38:32pm

re: #388 ladycatnip

#373 Charles


One more problem I have with this video is why on earth do we want to perpetuate the cult of celebrity with impressionable young minds? The last person I want teaching my kids or coming across as having any answers would be a Hollywood celebrity.

I don't, personally. Which is why I wouldn't show that video to kids. Unless they were old enough to laugh at it.

620 SixDegrees  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:38:37pm

re: #611 debutaunt

Why?

Probably because they don't want them ducking back into their shells just yet, and are hoping to put them smack in the spotlight as the election season starts picking up steam.

621 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:39:03pm

re: #599 BignJames

Oh stand by, the Photoshoppers will be out in force if it looks like she is a candidate.

622 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:39:17pm

re: #614 Guanxi88

Good point.

623 redmonkey  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:39:49pm

re: #598 Killgore Trout

Bullshit. Republicans and conservatives are supporting 9-11 truthers at this very moment, attending their rallies and listening to them speak. The press is going easy on them.

Did you attend any tea party? Did you know anybody who attend?

624 debutaunt  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:39:57pm

re: #614 Guanxi88

Sun Tzu says that is you see your enemy making a mistake, do nothing to stop him.

I'm surprised that the press can control itself.

625 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:40:40pm

re: #623 redmonkey

Did you attend any tea party? Did you know anybody who attend?

No. Why would I attend a protest organized by Paulians and Truthers?

626 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:40:41pm

re: #617 redmonkey

Truthers and Ron Paul people are very small minority in Tea party, but some people use their presence to discredit it.

Troofer are organizing them. Hellooo?

627 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:40:42pm

re: #614 Guanxi88

Sun Tzu says that is you see your enemy making a mistake, do nothing to stop him.

Of course, Machiavelli says that if you see your enemy commit a manifest blunder, you should assume it's a trick, so, I don't know.

628 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:40:59pm

Man. I think I'm going to have to post that about the Cincinnati Tea Party organizer.

629 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:41:03pm

re: #600 bloodnok

No. You might just say I'm a dreamer.

HA! How are you, nok?

Youtube Video

{nok}

630 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:41:10pm

re: #625 Killgore Trout

No. Why would I attend a protest organized by Paulians and Truthers?

They tend to have the best weed.

631 debutaunt  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:41:36pm

re: #620 SixDegrees

Probably because they don't want them ducking back into their shells just yet, and are hoping to put them smack in the spotlight as the election season starts picking up steam.

Timing!

632 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:41:39pm

re: #628 Charles

Please do.

633 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:41:46pm

re: #617 redmonkey

Truthers and Ron Paul people are very small minority in Tea party, but some people use their presence to discredit it.

Unfortunately, that small minority are the organizers, and the ones who are raising money off all those websites, and the one who have all the email addresses of the supporters who will be working for Ron Paul and his ilk whether they know it or not.

634 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:41:49pm

re: #628 Charles

He was just the first guy I googled. Look at the list, there are probably plenty more.

635 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:42:16pm

re: #612 Killgore Trout

No clue.

Because we don't have a 'liberal media', despite the persistent meme on the right that we do. We have a lazy media.

636 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:42:22pm

re: #607 Killgore Trout

I have to say that the context of this post makes it appear that the ' moderate twoofer ' comment is taken as a quote from my own post, which is not the case.
Just saying.

637 SixDegrees  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:42:48pm

re: #617 redmonkey

Truthers and Ron Paul people are very small minority in Tea party, but some people use their presence to discredit it.

The Tea Party KT referenced above was organized, financed and promoted by a Ronulan. He isn't someone who just showed up with a sign demanding Fed audits, handing out gold standard pamphlets and drooling a little.

He's in charge of the event.

638 jaunte  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:43:21pm

re: #628 Charles

Rink has his own blog: thinkrink.wordpress.com
He writes in one post about the "Church of Ron Paul."

So what are the parallels between the New Testament church, and the Church of Ron Paul? I have identified at least six.
639 brookly red  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:43:27pm

re: #627 Guanxi88

Of course, Machiavelli says that if you see your enemy commit a manifest blunder, you should assume it's a trick, so, I don't know.

maybe ask Rove for a 2nd opinion?

640 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:43:50pm

re: #634 Killgore Trout

He was just the first guy I googled. Look at the list, there are probably plenty more.

These are the core members:

[Link: www.cincinnatiteaparty.org...]

I haven't searched anything.

641 SixDegrees  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:44:25pm

re: #628 Charles

Man. I think I'm going to have to post that about the Cincinnati Tea Party organizer.

I think you should. The stupid is getting deep around here, with people STILL insisting that Ronulans at Tea Parties is just some sort of coincidence.

642 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:45:09pm

re: #639 brookly red

maybe ask Rove for a 2nd opinion?

As long as I don't have to listen to Dick Morris for a follow-up, it's a deal.

643 bloodnok  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:45:58pm

re: #629 iceweasel

HA! How are you, nok?


[Video]

{nok}

{Ice}

I'm doing great. Just looking for some troof...er, truth.

Youtube Video
644 redmonkey  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:46:24pm

re: #615 Gus 802

For one, I don't think Van Jones has an arrest record. Two, this is still playing out and we have yet to see how the White House will react. This may take a period of time so don't expect to see them react immediately to public pressure -- which is common with either party.

What I red Van Jones was arrested, but I post this just to show it would be much different reaction from MSM and also inject some humor in discussion

645 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:47:29pm

re: #638 jaunte

LOL

646 redmonkey  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:48:00pm

re: #626 Sharmuta

Troofer are organizing them. Hellooo?

In one case and most of people did know about it, they just concern about direction of country. You cannot base on one case discredit all

647 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:48:28pm

re: #644 redmonkey

What I red Van Jones was arrested, but I post this just to show it would be much different reaction from MSM and also inject some humor in discussion

OK I was listening to an interview with Van Jones and he does mention "getting hit by a police car" during the 1999 Seattle protest/riot he took part in.

648 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:48:38pm

re: #640 Gus 802

These are the core members:

[Link: www.cincinnatiteaparty.org...]

I haven't searched anything.

Searching a few of those manes, I found the koslings had done some digging. I'm going to look and fact check them.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

649 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:48:43pm

re: #643 bloodnok

{Ice}

I'm doing great. Just looking for some troof...er, truth.


We can't always get what we want. :(

Youtube Video
650 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:49:53pm

From the koslings:

On to Brian Willis, who was a bit more difficult to track down. He happens to be a member of the local Glenn Beck meetup group.

Sure enough:

[Link: www.meetup.com...]

651 Gus  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:50:07pm

re: #648 Sharmuta

Searching a few of those manes, I found the koslings had done some digging. I'm going to look and fact check them.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Ah, I see. That's from August 10th.

652 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:50:08pm

re: #73 SpaceJesus

So we can assume that your sense of fair play has led you to have sold your worldly possessions and sent the proceeds to the descendants of the Long Island Indians...

653 redmonkey  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:50:25pm

re: #637 SixDegrees

The Tea Party KT referenced above was organized, financed and promoted by a Ronulan. He isn't someone who just showed up with a sign demanding Fed audits, handing out gold standard pamphlets and drooling a little.

He's in charge of the event.

Again, there is thousand tea party movement around country , you cannot judge all by one

654 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:50:58pm

re: #649 iceweasel

We can't always get what we want. :(

Youtube Video


Unless you're in a county just outside of Vegas and have plenty of cash!

(don;'t EVEN ask me how I know that!)

655 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:51:31pm

re: #652 tradewind

So we can assume that your sense of fair play has led you to have sold your worldly possessions and sent the proceeds to the descendants of the Long Island Indians...

He did, I'm sure. He sent them postage collect, and the postage was more than the proceeds.

656 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:51:58pm

He was probably kidnapped and delivered to the assembly by Fox suits looking for a reason to fire him...

657 SixDegrees  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:52:41pm

re: #653 redmonkey

Again, there is thousand tea party movement around country , you cannot judge all by one

Metamorphosis of Tea Party Denial:

"The Ronulans aren't there."

"The Ronulans are there, but they aren't running things. They're just showing up in tiny numbers."

"The Ronulans ran one Tea Party, but they're not running all of them. Just one."

Stay tuned for future updates.

658 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:53:08pm

re: #656 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh ,, great ,, look who shows up

Whwre's the 2 dollars I loaned you?

659 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:53:12pm

Re the tea party and the troofers:
It seems to me that any time you have a movement that is organized and well publicized, such as the tea party thing, you will have it infiltrated and overrun with other fringe groups looking to ride the publicity coattails. Think of Cindy Sheehan's whack job convention and its subsequent attendance by David Duke and other neo-nazi skinhead types. Where the media gather, so will the nuts.

660 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:53:53pm

re: #649 iceweasel

We can't always get what we want. :(


{{{Albusteve}}}

661 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:54:24pm

re: #658 sattv4u2

uh... uh... hey! There's Elvis!

662 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:55:24pm

re: #661 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

uh... uh... hey! There's Elvis!

Another FAT BASTARD!

663 redmonkey  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:55:25pm

re: #657 SixDegrees

Metamorphosis of Tea Party Denial:

"The Ronulans aren't there."

"The Ronulans are there, but they aren't running things. They're just showing up in tiny numbers."

"The Ronulans ran one Tea Party, but they're not running all of them. Just one."

Stay tuned for future updates.

OK, on september 12 it going to be big tea party in DC (What I heard from my co-worker about 100000 people already signed for bus rides). Are you going to disregard it?

664 Wendya  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:56:31pm

re: #598 Killgore Trout

Bullshit. Republicans and conservatives are supporting 9-11 truthers at this very moment, attending their rallies and listening to them speak. The press is going easy on them.

It's those super secret truther mind-rays. They turn ordinary tax protesters into people who believe Bush took down the twin towers and bombed the pentagon.

665 bloodnok  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:57:03pm

re: #659 tradewind

Re the tea party and the troofers:
It seems to me that any time you have a movement that is organized and well publicized, such as the tea party thing, you will have it infiltrated and overrun with other fringe groups looking to ride the publicity coattails. Think of Cindy Sheehan's whack job convention and its subsequent attendance by David Duke and other neo-nazi skinhead types. Where the media gather, so will the nuts.

The Tea Party movement was not well organized. One of the main publicity sites for the Tea Parties was run by Eric Odom, conspiracy nut and friend 'o stalkers. It was this lack of organizations that led to the nutjobs rushing in to fill the vacuum and that also prevented the nuts from being told they were not welcome.

666 capitalist piglet  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 3:00:14pm

re: #635 iceweasel

Because we don't have a 'liberal media', despite the persistent meme on the right that we do. We have a lazy media.

So they're neutral, but lazy?

Sadly, no.

667 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 3:01:35pm

re: #664 Wendya

It's those super secret truther mind-rays. They turn ordinary tax protesters into people who believe Bush took down the twin towers and bombed the pentagon.

This mockery rings pretty hollow, coming right after irrefutable proof that the Cincinnati Tea Party is being run by a Truther.

668 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 3:02:27pm

Beck may be a looney tunes, but this is what will get Van Jones canned.
[Link: bighollywood.breitbart.com...]

669 avanti  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 3:03:42pm

re: #569 Charles

Afrocity hangs out with the stalkers, and is not welcome at this blog.

I liked Afro, but recently, she seemed to just pop in here to mention her blog and leave.

670 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 3:04:15pm

re: #665 bloodnok

Okay, whatever. Well or not, it was and is an organized movement. My point is that fringe groups love to ride coattails when they sense opportunity for publicity.

671 bloodnok  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 3:06:24pm

re: #670 tradewind

Okay, whatever. Well or not, it was and is an organized movement. My point is that fringe groups love to ride coattails when they sense opportunity for publicity.

The nuts were supplying the coats. That's about as far down as I can break that metaphor.

672 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 3:08:10pm

re: #671 bloodnok
Well, keep trying... you're bound to get better at it.

673 Bloodnok  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 3:12:01pm

re: #672 tradewind

Well, keep trying... you're bound to get better at it.

Sure. And just for you:

Have a Cuppa Tea

Youtube Video
674 avanti  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 3:15:36pm

re: #644 redmonkey

What I red Van Jones was arrested, but I post this just to show it would be much different reaction from MSM and also inject some humor in discussion

He was arrested at a Rodney King protest where he was a volunteer legal monitor, the charges were dismissed and he received a legal settlement.

675 Wendya  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 3:19:19pm

re: #667 Charles

This mockery rings pretty hollow, coming right after irrefutable proof that the Cincinnati Tea Party is being run by a Truther.

My point was that most people who show up to a tax protest aren't doing it because they are truthers or paul supporters just as most people who showed up to anti-war protests were not socialists or members of the Workers world party, even though they organized the larger protests.

If your local tax protest is, in fact, organized by truthers or paulinians, think twice about going and sending the message you support their cause.

676 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 3:26:27pm

re: #664 Wendya

It's those super secret truther mind-rays. They turn ordinary tax protesters into people who believe Bush took down the twin towers and bombed the pentagon.

Well- this is the logic some people are employing concerning Obama and his speech to school kids.

677 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 4:47:25pm

re: #666 capitalist piglet

So they're neutral, but lazy?

They're not neutral. They pander to whoever is in power and their primary objective is to maintain their cushy jobs, babble the Beltway narrative, and keep getting invited to cocktail parties.
They're lazy. They currently like Obama, but that could change in a heartbeat. They used to love McCain. And for most of the Bush years they loved Bush.

There are quotes from 2005 by Chris Matthews about Bush that are at least as gushing and sycophantic as the 'tingle up the leg' quote about Obama.
I realise the right likes to pretend that the MSM is always proliberal and reflexively biased against them, but the truth is more complicated than that.

678 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:07:52pm

So Rush is out. Beck is out. Malkin is suspect. Bill O'reilly is out. Sean Hanity is out. Mike Savage is out. Bill Bennet probably out. Laura Ingraham so far out as to not exist. So who is a conservative to listen to? Perhaps Joe Soucherary is okay?

I found a couple cute things on my radio. One of them is the on/off switch and the other changes the frequency being received. When one of the above hosts goes off the deep end I use those two controls to great effect. As an adult I find other adults making not so subtle efforts to narrow my listening/watching habits disturbing. I've even listened to Air America a few times, but was really turned off to most of the hosts they had since it seemed like the only topic the hosts had was HOW BAD IS THE BUSH (fill in the blank). Rather limited topics.

679 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:55:56pm
680 FrogMarch  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:03:00pm

Just wondering of Beck ever placed his name on official troofer documents?

681 FrogMarch  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:04:14pm

if

682 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:04:20pm

re: #680 FrogMarch

Just wondering of Beck ever placed his name on official troofer documents?

That is a pretty good question. Why don't you do some research on it?

683 tradewind  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:05:56pm

re: #680 FrogMarch

If he did, he probably just didn't know what he was signing.
///

684 FrogMarch  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:07:27pm

re: #678 Perplexed

Listen to Air America - you'd like it, I'm sure.

685 FrogMarch  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:08:05pm

re: #682 Perplexed

That is a pretty good question. Why don't you do some research on it?

I'm certain if Glen Beck himself did such a thing we'd all know it by now.

686 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:11:07pm

Smells like flounce in here.

687 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:12:29pm

re: #684 FrogMarch

Listen to Air America - you'd like it, I'm sure.

Actually I have attempted to listen to it, much like listening to Radio Moscow during the 60s. Just as an effort to better know the other side and be able to debate using their own 'facts' against them. One of the things about propaganda is there must be a grain of truth to it otherwise it becomes ineffective.

"There is no truth in Pravda and no news in Izvestia." That was proved wrong. If you read Pravda and flipped what was being said 180 it became truth. The same thing with Izvestia.

688 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:21:59pm

re: #678 Perplexed

Perhaps Joe Soucherary is okay?

He's an idiot.

689 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:27:28pm

re: #688 Sharmuta

He's an idiot.

Well, he really isn't on nationwide and does have a lot of Mn specific humor, but really, an idiot? Have you ever listened to him?

690 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:29:34pm

Since the original question went unanswered I'll ask it again.

Who is on the approved to listen to/watch column?

Throw some names out there, please.

691 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:31:12pm

re: #689 Perplexed

Long ago, and while he's not a radical from what I know (he's fairly moderate) he certainly can't be thought of as an intellect. Garage logic? Nothing wrong with that, but I found him rather simple.

692 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:31:59pm

re: #690 Perplexed

Since the original question went unanswered I'll ask it again.

Who is on the approved to listen to/watch column?

Throw some names out there, please.

You're an adult. Make up your own mind.

693 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:35:37pm

re: #692 Dark_Falcon

You're an adult. Make up your own mind.

Well, all of those folks I mentioned have recently been panned over here at LGF and I'm curious as to who is reliable as a news/commentary source for conservatives.

694 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:37:31pm

re: #693 Perplexed

Well, all of those folks I mentioned have recently been panned over here at LGF and I'm curious as to who is reliable as a news/commentary source for conservatives.

Listen to whoever you want to. Why are you asking me to make your choices for you?

695 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:41:00pm

re: #694 Charles

Listen to whoever you want to. Why are you asking me to make your choices for you?

Not asking for choices, just who is recommended as being a reliable source of news and commentary since the others were all found lacking.

696 Bagua  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:51:59pm

re: #695 Perplexed

At the moment?

Try this one:[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

697 thatemailname  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:53:55pm

Don't recall seeing Beck's name alongside Jones' on that petition that Jones signed.

698 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:56:28pm

re: #697 thatemailname

Jones got tricked by that petition. What's Glen Beck's excuse for hanging around with Troofer repeatedly and in public?

699 Bagua  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:57:02pm

re: #698 Dark_Falcon

Insanity?

700 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:57:33pm

re: #697 thatemailname

One more time for the cheap seats:

Birchers are the original troofers, and they suck. Anyone who promotes Birchers sucks. Beck promotes Birchers. Ipso Facto, Glenn Beck sucks.

701 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:02:21pm

Okay, night all.

702 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:10:01pm
703 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:12:10pm

re: #702 Karl Rove

Here's a down ding as a parting gift. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

704 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:16:00pm
705 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:16:34pm

re: #702 Karl Rove

Is this a flounce? Meh. I'm just here for the screenshot. And to be able to say that I got Karl Rove banned from LGF.

So that no doubt you can go and use that as a slander.

Bite me baby...

706 Bagua  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:17:58pm

re: #702 Karl Rove

You've wildly overstated your comments. You say 7,500+ comments in your flounce, yet the stats show 126 since 2004?

707 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:18:13pm

re: #704 Karl Rove

Dude. I'm crushed. Really. Good one.

Good enough to get you banned, troll boy.

708 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:18:39pm

re: #702 Karl Rove

That was "Powderfinger," who flounced yesterday, using a sock puppet to try to get in a bonus flounce.

Bye now ... again. Turkey.

709 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:21:13pm
710 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:24:51pm
711 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:34:29pm

re: #709 redwhiteandblue

You won't have to worry about using the sucky commenting system here any more.

712 thatemailname  Sun, Sep 6, 2009 5:30:13am

re: #698 Dark_Falcon

Tricked? By himself? Please stick to the facts.

"In a statement issued Thursday evening Jones said of "the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever."
An administration source said Jones says he did not carefully review the language in the petition before agreeing to add his name."

[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]

713 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 6, 2009 9:21:14am

Great post, Charles.

I am sorry I missed it in real time as I am sure some others are as well.

714 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 6, 2009 9:27:24am

Folks - what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Kooks who call out kooks should expect shit coming their way.

And those who go down the road of guilt by association better have tight control over all those who choose to associate with them.

As an artifact, Jones is not proven to be a truther. He is proven to be cretin and an asshole of the most leftward kind, but not a truther.

715 Mr. Hamlet  Sun, Sep 6, 2009 11:06:34am

Beck trash talks the troofer movement all the time. I have been to a few tea party rallies and met and talked to plenty of people I completely disagreed with including the troofers and code pink morons. The tea party rallies bring out all sorts of people - but the common theme is that people are dissatisfied with the idea of a massive controlling government and overwhelming taxes.

I am a U.S. citizen - there are plenty of great people and complete whack jobs that are also part of that club. Doesn't mean I should give up on it and abandon my citizenship. Same can be said about LGF.

Charles I think that it is interesting how you chastise readers for labeling Obama by the company he keeps, yet you use the same tactics against those with whom you disagree. Beck is the latest example of that.

It is okay to disagree with someone on some things, but that doesn't mean they are incorrect on everything. Many of the criticisms about Beck I read on this site (some of them deserved) are very reminiscent of criticisms I read about LGF over the last several years on other sites. Charles isn't always right, but he gets me thinking and brings to my attention things I didn't know about or ever thought of before. And in many cases I am presented with many different points of views from Charles and other lizards. Same goes for Beck. I think it is foolish to completely blow Beck off on absolutely everything because you disagreed with him on other issues.

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