To no one’s surprise. Of course, it’s announced on Saturday night, on Labor Day weekend, to avoid as much publicity as possible.
WASHINGTON — Obama aide Van Jones resigns as environmental adviser amid controversy over past statements.
Just to head off the howling mob:
No tears here. Just a weary disgust at what’s become of politics in America.
2 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:32:12pm |
Threw himself under the bus, it would seem.
| 3 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:32:18pm |
Who had Saturday night in the Van Jones pool?
Congratulations.
| 6 |
Drogheda Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:34:10pm |
Didn't I see a mention yesterday that someone said Van Jones would be out by Sunday? Don't recall if it was a poster here saying it or if they just posted what someone elsewhere had said.
| 8 |
MandyManners Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:34:36pm |
Hey, all you wannabe-Troofers, CHECK THIS OUT.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 10 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:34:49pm |
re: #6 Drogheda
Didn't I see a mention yesterday that someone said Van Jones would be out by Sunday? Don't recall if it was a poster here saying it or if they just posted what someone elsewhere had said.
Krauthammer said within a week I believe.
| 11 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:34:51pm |
He was a lousy pick and probably shouldn't be allowed a public tour of the White house without a security check.
/Still no evidence he was a truther.
//good riddance
| 12 |
pat Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:34:52pm |
re: #1 Sharmuta
Great- when do we get rid of the troofers in the tea parties?
They are a pest. And an enabler has just left the scene for another lucrative position, no doubt set up by The Messiah.
| 13 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:35:32pm |
Anyone who's tempted to gloat at me over this, despite the fact that I've said very clearly Van Jones shouldn't have been in that position, don't waste your time. Take it somewhere else. Post that garbage here and it will be the last comment you post at LGF.
| 15 |
yochanan Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:36:02pm |
when you hang in an anti american cesspool you end up smelling like shit.
i mean the rev. wright, ayers, et al SAME SHIT DIFFERENT DAY.
| 16 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:36:23pm |
Hey Lizards!
Charles, I keep trying to post a book to the Book Category, but I get a pop-up saying the URL doesn't seem to be valid. I cut and paste it directly from Amazon several times and even reloaded both pages.
Help!
| 17 |
pat Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:36:32pm |
Only 31 more Czars' laundry to wonder thru. If the Senate won't do it , the public will. This administration is a disgrace.
| 18 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:36:43pm |
Already had some wasted flounces over the Van Jones flash in the pan.
| 19 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:36:49pm |
Any predictions of who goes splat against the ban-stick?
| 21 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:36:57pm |
I am sure we will see many frothing examples of "I told you so! Glenn Beck FTW!" in the coming days.
Completely ignoring the fact, of course, that I and many people like me hold both Van Jones and Beck in contempt.
So it goes.
| 22 |
MandyManners Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:37:14pm |
re: #13 Charles
Anyone who's tempted to gloat at me over this, despite the fact that I've said very clearly Van Jones shouldn't have been in that position, don't waste your time. Take it somewhere else. Post that garbage here and it will be the last comment you post at LGF.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 23 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:37:18pm |
re: #16 ggt
Hey Lizards!
Charles, I keep trying to post a book to the Book Category, but I get a pop-up saying the URL doesn't seem to be valid. I cut and paste it directly from Amazon several times and even reloaded both pages.
Help!
Make sure there are no spaces at the beginning or end of the URL.
| 24 |
astronmr20 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:37:54pm |
It was all culminating to this,
But now the administration has some SERIOUS questions to answer about how this asshole was allowed into the whitehouse in the first place.
| 25 |
quickslow87 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:37:56pm |
Good riddance to Van Jones. I wonder how Obama comes up with these people.
| 26 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:37:58pm |
re: #21 Slumbering Behemoth
What, you have to choose one or the other! There are only two possible choices!
/
| 28 |
Bob Dillon Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:38:22pm |
re: #2 Slumbering Behemoth
Threw himself under the bus, it would seem.
I would bet he was given an offer he couldn't refuse.
| 29 |
Ojoe Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:38:32pm |
There are way more qualified people to be the "green czar."
Sim Van der Ryn comes to mind, he's 70 & has been doing the "green" stuff for 40 years.
Plus he has "Van" in his name.
| 30 |
cliffster Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:38:37pm |
re: #25 quickslow87
Good riddance to Van Jones. I wonder how Obama comes up with these people.
He's been networking with them for decades.
| 31 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:39:04pm |
re: #23 Charles
Make sure there are no spaces at the beginning or end of the URL.
Thanks! I just did and it still won't go.
| 32 |
teleskiguy Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:39:19pm |
This news is being dumped on us after midnight EST. Hmm...
0bama is fucking up pretty bad these days. Signs point to a one-term kind of thing, one would hope.
And, I have to ask, what's up with these "czars?" Is it pre-WWI Russia or something? The word czar reminds me of revolutionary Russia, where I think millions of innocent people needlessly died. Just sayin'...
| 33 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:39:20pm |
What's sad is beck will just feel emboldened now to continue with his crazy schtick.
| 34 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:39:23pm |
| 35 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:39:43pm |
re: #21 Slumbering Behemoth
I am sure we will see many frothing examples of "I told you so! Glenn Beck FTW!" in the coming days.
Completely ignoring the fact, of course, that I and many people like me hold both Van Jones and Beck in contempt.
So it goes.
No telling how that might play out. With Van Jones out of the White House it effectively removes any sign of impropriety with Color of Change. There could also be a backlash of sorts from who knows where.
| 36 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:39:52pm |
| 37 |
DEZes Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:39:59pm |
re: #28 Bobibutu
I would bet he was given an offer he couldn't refuse.
Door, meet ass.
Something along those lines.
Lizards, as always, thanks for the company.
Night.
| 39 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:40:09pm |
re: #32 teleskiguy
We've had czars for decades- why is this suddenly now an issue?
| 40 |
MandyManners Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:40:17pm |
| 41 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:40:19pm |
Livin' in a Van Jones, down by the river.
/motivational speaker.
How many questions are on the questionnaire again ?
| 42 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:40:23pm |
re: #22 MandyManners
Not sure what you're getting at. Help me out here Mandy.
/;)
| 43 |
freetoken Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:40:23pm |
Perhaps I am the only one here, but I was nonplussed by the videos I watched of Van Jones. Certainly he did not appear to me to be the monster that Beck made him out to be.
However, what I do know is that I don't like this whole movement... That by repeating allegations or partial truths loud enough one can remove someone from a job.
Smacks of McCarthyism. A whole lot.
| 44 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:40:43pm |
re: #36 ggt
[Link: www.amazon.com...]
wow, it worked in the post. ???
This is too high tech for me! LOL
| 45 |
yochanan Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:40:48pm |
re: #25 quickslow87
Because these are they type of people he has always hung with. SURPRISE SURPRISE
is van really any different from rev. wright?
| 46 |
ashimi Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:40:52pm |
Break out the champagne! This is a day to celebrate.
| 47 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:41:04pm |
re: #24 astronmr20
It was all culminating to this,
But now the administration has some SERIOUS questions to answer about how this asshole was allowed into the whitehouse in the first place.
Someone was owed a favor, or knew someone who knew someone. Le sigh.
| 48 |
cliffster Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:41:09pm |
re: #33 Sharmuta
What's sad is beck will just feel emboldened now to continue with his crazy schtick.
He is oblivious to reality, this won't change anything.
| 49 |
Racer X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:41:12pm |
| 51 |
solomonpanting Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:41:20pm |
re: #25 quickslow87
Good riddance to Van Jones. I wonder how Obama comes up with these people.
FOB---Friends Of Barack
| 53 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:41:57pm |
Charles, I swear to G-d I am not and have never been blonde.
Thanks for your help. I figured it out and am waaay to embarrased to admit my failure.
(I think I'll just lurk in shame for a while)
| 54 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:42:05pm |
re: #29 Ojoe
There are way more qualified people to be the "green czar."
Sim Van der Ryn comes to mind, he's 70 & has been doing the "green" stuff for 40 years.
Plus he has "Van" in his name.
My father, earlier this evening, listed to me three or four people he knows who are far more qualified. And my dad is not particulary au courant in green jobs circles.
| 55 |
Silvergirl Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:42:13pm |
re: #29 Ojoe
There are way more qualified people to be the "green czar."
Sim Van der Ryn comes to mind, he's 70 & has been doing the "green" stuff for 40 years.
Plus he has "Van" in his name.
I nominate Ed Begley Jr, who as I've posted before walks the talk. I like him.
| 56 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:42:17pm |
re: #43 freetoken
Perhaps I am the only one here, but I was nonplussed by the videos I watched of Van Jones. Certainly he did not appear to me to be the monster that Beck made him out to be.
However, what I do know is that I don't like this whole movement... That by repeating allegations or partial truths loud enough one can remove someone from a job.
Smacks of McCarthyism. A whole lot.
Agreed. This process was rotten to the core, and the cave-in is only going to encourage the Beck crowd.
| 57 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:42:38pm |
re: #52 jorline
Obama threw Jones under the Van?
Don't know yet. They said he resigned or quit. But we've seen that happen before and it was a forced resignation.
| 58 |
Racer X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:42:41pm |
re: #764 tradewind
It wasn't Beck.
Video Killed the Obama Czar.
Lots of YouTube footage of him bringing Teh Crazy radical shiite. He only needed a shove.
Tradewind pegged this one.
| 59 |
MandyManners Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:43:09pm |
| 60 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:43:27pm |
re: #32 teleskiguy
This news is being dumped on us after midnight EST. Hmm...
0bama is fucking up pretty bad these days. Signs point to a one-term kind of thing, one would hope.
And, I have to ask, what's up with these "czars?" Is it pre-WWI Russia or something? The word czar reminds me of revolutionary Russia, where I think millions of innocent people needlessly died. Just sayin'...
Including the czar and his family, although 'innocent' might not apply to the czar himself.
Why do we call them czars, anyway?
| 61 |
BatGuano Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:43:29pm |
re: #49 Racer X
That has been my impression of him. He seems like a leader to me.
| 62 |
calcajun Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:44:00pm |
| 63 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:44:04pm |
re: #59 MandyManners
Really:?
I'm approximating from memory, but I believe Bush had around 10 and Obama around 31.
| 64 |
pat Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:44:04pm |
re: #39 Sharmuta
Really? Why don't you explain the budgeting process for these czars?
| 65 |
Racer X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:44:15pm |
re: #55 Silvergirl
I nominate Ed Begley Jr, who as I've posted before walks the talk. I like him.
GMTA!
| 66 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:44:17pm |
re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist
I believe the term is sourced from Cesar.
| 68 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:44:49pm |
re: #43 freetoken
Perhaps I am the only one here, but I was nonplussed by the videos I watched of Van Jones. Certainly he did not appear to me to be the monster that Beck made him out to be.
However, what I do know is that I don't like this whole movement... That by repeating allegations or partial truths loud enough one can remove someone from a job.
Smacks of McCarthyism. A whole lot.
Lots of folks running around this year who would have no problem with the return of McCarthy.
| 69 |
calcajun Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:45:00pm |
re: #49 Racer X
I got the perfect guy for the green czar:
Dude walks the walk.
That's because he doesn't own a car.
| 70 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:45:01pm |
re: #66 Dan G.
I believe the term is sourced from Cesar.
Which propery pronoucned, IIRC, is "Say-Zar"
| 71 |
solomonpanting Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:45:29pm |
| 73 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:45:47pm |
re: #63 Pianobuff
I'm approximating from memory, but I believe Bush had around 10 and Obama around 31.
I should add that I do hope it becomes an issue in the 2012 race. If a R were to win by some odd chance, I wouldn't want him/her appointing 50 czars (since the number seems to be going up dramatically).
| 74 |
NeoKong Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:45:52pm |
Ha Ha!
I hear there's a job opening in Massachusetts.
| 75 |
Honorary Yooper Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:46:01pm |
re: #66 Dan G.
I believe the term is sourced from Cesar.
Yes. Czar (or tsar) is Russian for Caesar. Likewise, Kaiser is German for Caesar. I suspect there are others, but those are the two I know off hand.
| 76 |
cliffster Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:46:10pm |
Beck to Obama: "Thanks, Barry, 3 million and counting"
Obama to Beck: "No problem Glenn, hey can you quit showing that one picture of me leaning over the podium with my mouth hanging open? Bad shot"
Beck to Obama: "Sure Barry, no problem. Coffee next tuesday?"
| 78 |
BatGuano Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:46:13pm |
re: #66 Dan G.
That's right. The first America Governmental Czar I remember was William Simon, Nixon's "energy Czar".
| 79 |
tradewind Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:46:32pm |
re: #43 freetoken
Wait... if you were nonplussed, you were beside yourself... at a loss for words...
Maybe you meant unfazed.
| 80 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:46:46pm |
re: #35 Gus 802
No telling how that might play out. With Van Jones out of the White House it effectively removes any sign of impropriety with Color of Change. There could also be a backlash of sorts from who knows where.
Well now that he has some free time, Van Jones could actually put his efforts into CoC's Beck boycott as some have alleged he has been doing all along, and further help boost Beck's ratings.
| 81 |
teleskiguy Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:46:55pm |
re: #39 Sharmuta
We've had czars for decades- why is this suddenly now an issue?
Good point. Maybe I'm just a little skittish because of 0bama's socialist leanings, I'm engaging in some cognitive dissonance by trying to make the word "czar" look bad. But you are right, the title of czar has been used in this country for a long time.
| 82 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:47:10pm |
re: #48 cliffster
He is oblivious to reality, this won't change anything.
You think not? He attacked Jones, Jones is gone. As far as he's concerned, he did it, which means he will try to do it again. And these folks who keep saying he has something going will see this as validation of his smarts.
| 83 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:47:15pm |
re: #64 pat
I want to know why suddenly conservatives are saying things like:
And, I have to ask, what's up with these "czars?" Is it pre-WWI Russia or something? The word czar reminds me of revolutionary Russia, where I think millions of innocent people needlessly died. Just sayin'...
Decades we've had czars. Why is this term an issue now?
| 85 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:47:18pm |
re: #80 Slumbering Behemoth
Well now that he has some free time, Van Jones could actually put his efforts into CoC's Beck boycott as some have alleged he has been doing all along, and further help boost Beck's ratings.
True. There you go. Anything can happen.
| 86 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:47:20pm |
| 87 |
Honorary Yooper Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:47:47pm |
re: #70 ggt
Which propery pronoucned, IIRC, is "Say-Zar"
Only when anglicized. If you're using Latin, it's "Kie-zahr". No soft "c" in Latin.
| 88 |
Racer X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:47:54pm |
re: #69 calcajun
That's because he doesn't own a car.
Actually he does (hybrid). He once proclaimed he could fit a week's worth of trash inside the glove compartment - and then he made it fit.
| 89 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:47:56pm |
| 90 |
astronmr20 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:48:02pm |
What concerns me is this is going to embolden Beck to the nth degree. His poor family is probably, at this moment, listening to him scream "I win! I win!"
Jones had to go, but hopefully this won't encourage Beck to use his ridiculous tactics even more. He's probably thinking "one down, 30 to go!"
...and then the right will just look like political assassins.
| 91 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:48:08pm |
re: #84 tradewind
More like, "You've just broken your sister's things. Cesar-y"
| 92 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:48:19pm |
re: #39 Sharmuta
We've had czars for decades- why is this suddenly now an issue?
Probably for the same reason that troops in Iraq/Afghanistan are suddenly a non-issue with leftists. Blind partisanship.
| 93 |
yochanan Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:48:38pm |
the zero hung with the u.of c. uber left chatting class ayers, rev wright, et al why does this suppose anyone here.?/ beck did not appoint van Jones and the whole tzar thing was to get people in power that you did not have to have public hearing over. in the past we had a couple of these types of appointees the zero had over 30. the fact that the zero is attacking Israel doesn't suppose me either the leftist chatting class doesn't support Israel at all.
| 94 |
jorline Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:48:38pm |
Does Van get to keep his Health Insurance and Retirement Plan?
| 95 |
BlueCanuck Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:48:51pm |
| 97 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:49:02pm |
re: #66 Dan G.
I believe the term is sourced from Cesar.
Well, Caesar becomes Kaiser and Czar, and a few other titles, but my question is, why do we use a Russian term of nobility to descibe U.S. govt. positions?
| 98 |
calcajun Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:49:48pm |
re: #88 Racer X
Actually he does (hybrid). He once proclaimed he could fit a week's worth of trash inside the glove compartment - and then he made it fit.
I still see him as Dr. Erlich from St. Elsewhere.
| 100 |
Silvergirl Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:50:14pm |
| 101 |
tradewind Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:50:17pm |
re: #81 teleskiguy
But never in such a heavy-handed way and so flagrantly has an administration just said ' we don't want to have to screw with any confirmation crap, we're just creating this power and appointing this dude'.
| 102 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:50:53pm |
re: #75 Honorary Yooper
Yes. Czar (or tsar) is Russian for Caesar. Likewise, Kaiser is German for Caesar. I suspect there are others, but those are the two I know off hand.
Here's a derivative:
Julius Caesar --> Caesaris --> Xeres --> Jerez --> sherry (wine of Jerez)
| 103 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:50:54pm |
re: #70 ggt
Which propery pronoucned, IIRC, is "Say-Zar"
Well, in Spanish. The Latin "Caesar" should have a hard C, IIRC.
| 105 |
Racer X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:51:14pm |
re: #98 calcajun
I still see him as Dr. Erlich from St. Elsewhere.
Another series I never watched even one episode.
| 106 |
cliffster Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:51:21pm |
Prediction: Beck will put up 5 pictures on his next show - pictures of the people he profiled in his week-long series. With a cross through Van Jones. "Next?"
| 108 |
Honorary Yooper Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:51:47pm |
re: #86 Dan G.
re: #78 BatGuano
Isn't it just a synonym for "dictator" (at least what I was taught).
No. In the later Roman Empire, there was usually a head emperor and a second emperor. The former was known as an "Augustus" and the later, a "Caesar". Of course, named after Augustus (Gaius Octavius) and Gaius Julius Caesar respectively.
Dictator was an earlier Latin term for a person appointed by the Roman Republic to have total power for a period of a year in time of trouble (famine, war). The most famous of these to actually use the term, and keep it essentially until he died was Lucius Cornelius Sulla.
| 109 |
freetoken Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:51:59pm |
Indeed, the more I think of it the even less I like this whole development, for a couple of reasons.
1) There is now an official martyr for several different groups of people. Of course this is partly up to Van Jones - how he wants to play his future. From watching his videos he is very winsome, very well educated, and does much better without a teleprompter than many politicians.
2) The neo-McCarthyists (Beck, a whole bunch of uber-right blogs, etc.) have just received a massive dose of positive feedback (queue LVQ...).
3) From what little evidence I could gather, Van Jones was doing his job well. Now, you may believe that his job should never have existed in the first place, yet the fact remains the we have someone losing their job not based on the performance of their job but on items in their past that have yet to be shown to have affected his job performance.
| 110 |
solomonpanting Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:52:11pm |
re: #97 SanFranciscoZionist
Well, Caesar becomes Kaiser and Czar, and a few other titles, but my question is, why do we use a Russian term of nobility to descibe U.S. govt. positions?
Because "Emperor" is just a tad over the top?
| 111 |
Fenway_Nation Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:52:14pm |
How many of 0bama's other appointed czars have abruptly quit? Didn't one of his car czars resign on a Friday afternoon?
| 112 |
tradewind Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:52:16pm |
re: #105 Racer X
You missed a great one, then. See if you can get the DVDs.
| 113 |
Ojoe Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:52:39pm |
Now perhaps we can leave the politics out of sustainability & solar and all those things that really belong to everybody.
| 114 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:52:58pm |
re: #81 teleskiguy
Good point. Maybe I'm just a little skittish because of 0bama's socialist leanings, I'm engaging in some cognitive dissonance by trying to make the word "czar" look bad. But you are right, the title of czar has been used in this country for a long time.
'Czar' is not a socialist term, it's a royal title. A president expressing 'socialist leanings' would appoint a commissar.
;)
| 115 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:53:13pm |
re: #97 SanFranciscoZionist
Well, Caesar becomes Kaiser and Czar, and a few other titles, but my question is, why do we use a Russian term of nobility to descibe U.S. govt. positions?
Nixon I think.
| 116 |
BatGuano Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:53:13pm |
re: #97 SanFranciscoZionist
As I posted, Nixon had the first czar that I remember. Could it have a news medium term of distrust for that position? Don't know, just asking.
| 117 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:53:17pm |
re: #103 SanFranciscoZionist
Well, in Spanish. The Latin "Caesar" should have a hard C, IIRC.
Yes, which is why the Germans had a Kaiser. Closer to the original pronunciation.
| 118 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:53:41pm |
re: #83 Sharmuta
I want to know why suddenly conservatives are saying things like:
Decades we've had czars. Why is this term an issue now?
Because people are getting PARANOID.
| 119 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:53:47pm |
re: #97 SanFranciscoZionist
I agree, and I don't like the practice (by either side). I too am curious what, exactly, their position is with respect to the Constitution. Are they just employees/advisers to the Executive?
| 120 |
tradewind Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:53:58pm |
re: #109 freetoken
Yeah, he was especially personable when he was ranting about the terrorists among us, the bombs we called down on ourselves, and Bush licking the crack pipe.
Winsome is definitely the word. It'll take a while to replace that charmer.
| 122 |
freetoken Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:54:22pm |
re: #79 tradewind
No. "Nonplussed" as in having a bit of confusion because of either contradictory information or having more than opinion each of which could be valid.
| 123 |
Ojoe Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:54:22pm |
What this country needs is a good 5 ¢ czar.
Goodnight all.
| 124 |
solomonpanting Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:54:31pm |
Sad to see Van Gough. Just add another to the nation's unemployment list. Ironic that Obama couldn't save yet another job with his stimulus bill.
| 125 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:54:54pm |
re: #109 freetoken
Indeed, the more I think of it the even less I like this whole development, for a couple of reasons.
1) There is now an official martyr for several different groups of people. Of course this is partly up to Van Jones - how he wants to play his future. From watching his videos he is very winsome, very well educated, and does much better without a teleprompter than many politicians.
2) The neo-McCarthyists (Beck, a whole bunch of uber-right blogs, etc.) have just received a massive dose of positive feedback (queue LVQ...).
3) From what little evidence I could gather, Van Jones was doing his job well. Now, you may believe that his job should never have existed in the first place, yet the fact remains the we have someone losing their job not based on the performance of their job but on items in their past that have yet to be shown to have affected his job performance.
The lesson to be learned here is: Don't associate with extremists!
This lesson is sadly lost on the wingnuts who exposed this idiot. He may have been doing his job well but his past associations with extremists sunk him. The people like Beck, Malkin, etc who exposed him are associating with extremists themselves. Fuck them all.
| 126 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:54:59pm |
Energy: Nixon's Decisive New Energy Czar
1972
and
Drug Czar is an informal name for the person who directs drug-control policies in the United States. The 'czar' title was first used to refer to an appointed government official in a Time Magazine article in December 1973, referring to William E. Simon's appointment as the head of the Federal Energy Administration.[1] The 'drug czar' title was first published in a 1982 news story quoting Joe Biden by United Press International which reported that “Senators... voted 62-34 to establish a ‘drug czar’ who would have overall responsibility for U.S. drug policy.”[2] Since then, several ad hoc executive positions in both the United States and United Kingdom have been established which have been subsequently referred to in this manner.
The Time magazine article is my first link.
| 127 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:55:08pm |
re: #109 freetoken
Indeed, the more I think of it the even less I like this whole development, for a couple of reasons.
1) There is now an official martyr for several different groups of people. Of course this is partly up to Van Jones - how he wants to play his future. From watching his videos he is very winsome, very well educated, and does much better without a teleprompter than many politicians.
2) The neo-McCarthyists (Beck, a whole bunch of uber-right blogs, etc.) have just received a massive dose of positive feedback (queue LVQ...).
3) From what little evidence I could gather, Van Jones was doing his job well. Now, you may believe that his job should never have existed in the first place, yet the fact remains the we have someone losing their job not based on the performance of their job but on items in their past that have yet to be shown to have affected his job performance.
Like I said downstairs,
The Beck types have now been granted more legitimacy than they could have prayed for. Obama is a surrender monkey, and he just surrendered to the wrong people for the worst reasons.
Or I suppose that we could say that this is another case of him never meeting a fascist he didn't like.
I am no fan of Van Jones. I don't care for him personally, and in a real sense this is not about him It is about a horde of lying morons being able to gibber down a President of the United States and get anywhere.
| 128 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:55:23pm |
re: #95 BlueCanuck
Dictator was the "speaker" of the senate.
/literal translation of dictator is speaker
AH! Now I get the etymology. (OK, it only took me three and half decades to figure that one out.)
| 129 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:55:23pm |
re: #126 Gus 802
Energy: Nixon's Decisive New Energy Czar
19721973and
The Time magazine article is my first link.
| 130 |
tradewind Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:55:30pm |
re: #122 freetoken
Oh, okay. I thought you meant from your post that they didn't bother you.
| 131 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:55:45pm |
So when do we get ron paul to resign for his questionable truther position?
| 132 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:55:47pm |
Go ahead and party, folks. I won't be joining you.
I'm not going to miss Van Jones one bit. But the precedent this sets is a real nightmare.
| 133 |
Techie Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:55:49pm |
Wow, Beck exposes this guy to a national audience and some are afraid this will "embolden him"?
Talk about misplace priorities.
| 135 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:56:38pm |
re: #106 cliffster
Prediction: Beck will put up 5 pictures on his next show - pictures of the people he profiled in his week-long series. With a cross through Van Jones. "Next?"
Could be. I'll predict this--he will congratulate his viewers on their display of the people's power.
| 136 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:56:52pm |
re: #87 Honorary Yooper
Only when anglicized. If you're using Latin, it's "Kie-zahr". No soft "c" in Latin.
I South America too! I had co-worker once whose name was "Say-Zar" spelled Ceasar.
| 137 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:56:55pm |
re: #131 Sharmuta
So when do we get ron paul to resign for his questionable truther position?
Shhh... that would be consistent thinking.
| 138 |
freetoken Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:57:10pm |
re: #130 tradewind
"nonplussed" often represents an intermediate state between two poles of thought.
| 139 |
jorline Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:57:17pm |
What kind of job do you look for after listing Czar on your resume?
Does the next employer call the last reference?
| 140 |
cliffster Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:57:24pm |
re: #43 freetoken
Perhaps I am the only one here, but I was nonplussed by the videos I watched of Van Jones. Certainly he did not appear to me to be the monster that Beck made him out to be.
However, what I do know is that I don't like this whole movement... That by repeating allegations or partial truths loud enough one can remove someone from a job.
Smacks of McCarthyism. A whole lot.
Smear campaigns have been going on as long as politics. Just that now, you don't say you caught them with a prostitute. Now you say you caught them crazy conspiricists! Better for the family, if you ask me.
| 141 |
BatGuano Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:57:30pm |
re: #114 SanFranciscoZionist
Der Kommissar. Has a nice ring to it. :)
| 142 |
BlueCanuck Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:57:34pm |
re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist
AH! Now I get the etymology. (OK, it only took me three and half decades to figure that one out.)
Don't worry about it. I had a brother that took latin in high school. Plus I read a broad range of topics and that came up in a few of them.
| 143 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:58:29pm |
re: #140 cliffster
Smear campaigns have been going on as long as politics. Just that now, you don't say you caught them with a prostitute. Now you say you caught them crazy conspiricists! Better for the family, if you ask me.
Sanford has made it impossible for at least two months for the GOP to pull a bimbo @ 11 attack.
| 144 |
tradewind Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:58:34pm |
...the fact remains the we have someone losing their job not based on the performance of their job but on items in their past that have yet to be shown to have affected his job performance.
It's the way real life works for the rest of the population . Shouldn't be any different for those in DC.
| 145 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:59:02pm |
Think about what Charles just posted. Not this specific incident, but the mechanics of the process that just unfolded, and how you would think about it if it was a conservative President firing one of his advisers, caving to the objections of someone like Keith Olbermann, supported by MoveOn and the SWP.
| 148 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:59:12pm |
| 151 |
cliffster Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:59:39pm |
re: #143 LudwigVanQuixote
Sanford has made it impossible for at least two months for the GOP to pull a bimbo @ 11 attack.
Who needs bimbos when you have truthers??
| 152 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:00:07pm |
re: #116 BatGuano
As I posted, Nixon had the first czar that I remember. Could it have a news medium term of distrust for that position? Don't know, just asking.
That makes sense.
| 153 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:00:08pm |
And I never thought that this would happen, considering all the support Van Jones was getting. This is what happens when the wacky right gets their fangs into someone.
If this keeps up, the next thing you know, the Tea Party will have it's on cable channel and Glenn Beck will be running for Dictator of the World.
| 155 |
I Need A Bigger Gun Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:00:13pm |
All of this "truther" and "birther" crap is making my head hurt. I wish we could get rid of all of these schmucks and clear the way for some real political business to take place.
| 156 |
jlemieu1 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:00:29pm |
speculation-- Does anyone think someone had something bigger on him or was this a call from George S. ? :-)
| 157 |
Racer X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:00:29pm |
Just another Obama mistake. Nothing to see here.
Oooh - look! Health care!
| 159 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:00:45pm |
re: #150 Sharmuta
Actually- ron paul should resign for this photo with neo-nazis.
He should be impeached for that.
| 160 |
sven10077 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:00:52pm |
re: #125 Killgore Trout
I'll "fuck all of them" as soon as they are President of the United States or a non-vetted employee trying to take over our energy development...
'til then I'll take what I can get.
Chairman Soetoro said judge me by the folks I surround myself with.
I see a lot of red.
| 161 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:01:19pm |
re: #145 jaunte
Think about what Charles just posted. Not this specific incident, but the mechanics of the process that just unfolded, and how you would think about it if it was a conservative President firing one of his advisers, caving to the objections of someone like Keith Olbermann, supported by MoveOn and the SWP.
I don't want to step in it, but I remember Trent Lott being forced to resign as majority leader as a result of a comment at Strom Thurmonds' birthday party.
| 162 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:02:17pm |
re: #119 Dan G.
I agree, and I don't like the practice (by either side). I too am curious what, exactly, their position is with respect to the Constitution. Are they just employees/advisers to the Executive?
Yeah, I think it's just an informal title for a policy director.
| 163 |
sven10077 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:02:18pm |
re: #153 Walter L. Newton
Indeed, I notice that the evil right-wing has MSNBC, CBS, NBC, and ABC so in their hand they could prevent their going Andi Sullivan on the Palins or Banzai on Sanford?
*what?*
| 164 |
jlemieu1 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:02:27pm |
re: #153 Walter L. Newton
And I never thought that this would happen, considering all the support Van Jones was getting. This is what happens when the wacky right gets their fangs into someone.
If this keeps up, the next thing you know, the Tea Party will have it's on cable channel and Glenn Beck will be running for Dictator of the World.
Glenn Beck for supreme leader...Come on really Dictator of the world?
| 165 |
Racer X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:02:53pm |
re: #153 Walter L. Newton
And I never thought that this would happen, considering all the support Van Jones was getting. This is what happens when the wacky right gets their fangs into someone.
*scratching my head*
So, we should have kept this radical asshole around just so as not to make the whackjobs on the right look, right?
Isn't that like cutting off your nose to spite your face?
| 166 |
Chekote Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:02:55pm |
This is not smart politics on the part of the GOP. It will enrage the Dem base and AA community just when they were starting to get disillusioned with Obama. Stupid move. Yeah, Jones was a commie. But now we have to deal with a more powerful Beck.
| 167 |
Bob Dillon Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:02:59pm |
re: #111 Fenway_Nation
How many of 0bama's other appointed czars have abruptly quit? Didn't one of his car czars resign on a Friday afternoon?
Released late on a Friday...go figure!
Cybersecurity position is a loose loose proposition - responsibility and no authority the way it is presently structured. Obama has to change that if he want a quality person to take and keep it.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
A top operational official in charge of protecting civilian government computer networks has resigned, another blow to the federal effort to enhance cybersecurity.
| 168 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:03:33pm |
As it is, so shall it be.
Some on the right have been taking note of the radical activities they think have worked for the left. Thus we have some "conservatives" co-opting the "Alinksy Rules for Radicals", because hey, it worked for "them".
Some on the left, right now, perhaps even more radical than the boogie men that some on the right quiver in fear of, are taking notes this minute.
As it is, so shall it be.
| 169 |
sven10077 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:03:44pm |
re: #145 jaunte
Yeah it'd feel an awful lot like I did when Bush allowed Scooter Libby to be taken down for borderline reasons when Sandy the Hanburglar got to walk on an action that were a layman to do it would get prison time...
"change"
| 170 |
Ojoe Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:03:53pm |
re: #155 I Need A Bigger Gun
Join the Modern Whig Party then.
Modern Whig Party
Good Night all, again.
| 171 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:03:55pm |
re: #133 Techie
Wow, Beck exposes this guy to a national audience and some are afraid this will "embolden him"?
Talk about misplace priorities.
No. You are a fool. Beck, lied about a presidential advisor in a smear campaign and got the resident to cave. The President now will face even more of the same.
That is the problem.
If you make politics such that you don't even need to be close to the truth, merely scream loudly enough, you destroy the system.
That is the problem.
ANY POTUS, from any party, who succumbs to stuff like this is a bad sign. It cheapens the presidency and erodes the system.
| 172 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:03:59pm |
re: #160 sven10077
I'll "fuck all of them" as soon as they are President of the United States or a non-vetted employee trying to take over our energy development...
'til then I'll take what I can get.
Chairman Soetoro said judge me by the folks I surround myself with.
I see a lot of red.
Yeah- who cares if pundits and blogger are hanging out with truthers and pushing their agenda?
| 173 |
Pawn of the Oppressor Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:04:08pm |
re: #153 Walter L. Newton
If this keeps up, the next thing you know, the Tea Party will have it's on cable channel and Glenn Beck will be running for Dictator of the World.
I'm thinking of the way Hitler had himself photographed making all kinds of crazy poses and expressions, and picturing Beck in some of those poses...
What a theater of the absurd this country has become. Trillion-dollar debt turds, car buy-backs, a Congress that parodies itself, goofball Bircher talk show hosts pulling in audiences of millions... Welcome to The Stupid, take a number.
| 174 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:04:11pm |
re: #136 ggt
I South America too! I had co-worker once whose name was "Say-Zar" spelled Ceasar.
Cesar is a fairly common boy's name in Latin America, and Italians use Cesare. Somehow never made it into English.
| 175 |
sven10077 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:04:20pm |
re: #165 Racer X
oh believe me I wanted Obambi to keep Van around...Van was a walking campaign ad.
| 176 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:04:43pm |
re: #145 jaunte
While I agree that we should be worried about the process, do you think anything would have happened if there was no "there" there? If there wasn't any basis for the calls for him to be removed from his position, do you think that Van Jones would still have been asked to step down?
I think that the wingnuts turned up the craziness because they knew he'd be gone anyway; they just wanted to be associated with his removal.
| 178 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:05:41pm |
re: #161 Van Helsing
I don't want to step in it, but I remember Trent Lott being forced to resign as majority leader as a result of a comment at Strom Thurmonds' birthday party.
Yeah a racist one that he actually meant to make - as opposed to being lied to about a petition.
| 179 |
Racer X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:06:07pm |
re: #171 LudwigVanQuixote
No. You are a fool. Beck, lied about a presidential advisor in a smear campaign and got the resident to cave. The President now will face even more of the same.
That is the problem.
If you make politics such that you don't even need to be close to the truth, merely scream loudly enough, you destroy the system.
That is the problem.
ANY POTUS, from any party, who succumbs to stuff like this is a bad sign. It cheapens the presidency and erodes the system.
I think you, and others, are giving Glenn Beck way more credit than he is due. Is it possible that Van Jones was forced to resign for reasons other than Glenn Beck coming after him?
| 180 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:06:28pm |
re: #165 Racer X
*scratching my head*
So, we should have kept this radical asshole around just so as not to make the whackjobs on the right look, right?
Isn't that like cutting off your nose to spite your face?
Oh little one, I have decided to forgo the sarcasm tag for most postings since much of what is coming from the progressives on here is just as far flung as my statement above. After a while, the outrageous will simply meld with the crazy and we will all be getting along.
| 181 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:06:33pm |
re: #141 BatGuano
Der Kommissar. Has a nice ring to it. :)
I think so.
But seriously, I have seen three or four people here in the last months express concern over Obama appointing 'czars', in light of its, y'know, Russian connection.
People:
1. Obama did not invent the title.
2. Historically speaking, communists don't like czars.
| 184 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:07:11pm |
I just hope Stinky had a good nights rest, last night & ate his Cheerios this morning. I suspect he's going to be busy tonight.
| 185 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:07:15pm |
re: #176 Dan G.
To clarify, I don't mean that he was, in fact, a truther; I'm talking about other questionable actions/affiliations.
| 187 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:07:24pm |
re: #179 Racer X
I think you, and others, are giving Glenn Beck way more credit than he is due. Is it possible that Van Jones was forced to resign for reasons other than Glenn Beck coming after him?
It's not just Beck - I am using him to represent the whole chorus of crzy.
As to other reasons, the timing makes it unlikely.
| 188 |
Racer X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:08:02pm |
re: #180 Walter L. Newton
My apologies, master. I shall not make that blunder again.
| 189 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:08:16pm |
I just finished the Q&A session of the Pritzker Military Libary's podcast of this Author's book talk.
I don't think I'll be able to stomach reading the book. I'm going out on a limb and saying that my revulsion of what he reports is the reason for my inability to property post the book-link earlier.
I swear I am not now, nor have ever been blonde.
Some parts of reality I cannot handle.
| 190 |
Gretchen Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:08:20pm |
A link about the history of czars in the executive branch.
It is wikipedia, so take it for what it is worth but I couldn't find much else on the subject. It is difficult to really get your head around it. GWB had a bunch of czars too, but it appeared to me, from this list, more of his were assistants to some other existing position, and more of his were appointed by someone else or confirmed by the senate. The defintion of czar is held loosely anything from the head of a new bureaucracy to an advisor to the president to an assistant to another government official. In my mind it is the confirmation process that confers legitimacy to the position, and I'm not as troubled by positions that have been confirmed by the senate. It seems like in eight months Obama has installed more czars and more unconfirmed, and judging by the Van Jones appointment unvetted czars. I am not a fan of positions in the government accountable only to the President with whole bureaucracies under each new czar, and assistants to the assistant czar. The government is big and unaccountable enough already.
| 191 |
tradewind Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:08:35pm |
re: #154 jaunte
There were several people forced to leave in those eight years because of political and PC pressure... people like John Bolton, Paul Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, ...I'm sure there are more. While not exactly the same, the fact that Tom Delay was forced out is laughable when you consider that Charley Rangel and others like him are hanging in there, with no pressure from Pelosi to quit. So much for the culture of corruption.
| 192 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:08:41pm |
re: #176 Dan G.
I think it's a good idea to dial down the craziness, and not to start imagining that it's an effective political tool.
| 194 |
Pawn of the Oppressor Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:09:06pm |
re: #171 LudwigVanQuixote
If you make politics such that you don't even need to be close to the truth, merely scream loudly enough, you destroy the system.
Exactly.
"The ends justify the means" is a Romantic, radical concept. It's as red as the KGB and as black as the Third Reich, and it is the natural enemy of rational discourse. As an approach, it's as Alinskyite as anything that Barry or Hillary wrote papers about in school.
| 196 |
Chekote Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:09:25pm |
Beck will claim full credit and the nutty right will cheer him on thinking that they scored a great victory. This reminds me of when they pushed for Clinton to be impeach which led to the founding of MoveOn. The rest is history.
| 197 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:09:57pm |
re: #178 LudwigVanQuixote
Yeah a racist one that he actually meant to make - as opposed to being lied to about a petition.
the allegations of trooferism weren't the only reason.
Plenty of other reasons for Jones to never have been considered for the job.
| 198 |
I Need A Bigger Gun Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:10:03pm |
re: #193 I Need A Bigger Gun
Never mind. It's late...
| 199 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:10:08pm |
This is going to backfire on the GOP. Big time.
| 201 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:10:37pm |
re: #171 LudwigVanQuixote
No. You are a fool. Beck, lied about a presidential advisor in a smear campaign and got the resident to cave. The President now will face even more of the same.
[snip]
Nope. If this guy was SO INNOCENT there is no way he should have resigned, or the president should have accepted his resignation. Doesn't Obama and Van Jones have the morals to stand up for the truth.
If you were accused of something, and you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were innocent, you were correct, you had the truth on your side, would you just sulk away and blame it on your accuser?
I bet you would fight tooth and nail. Right?
| 202 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:10:40pm |
re: #183 Charles
Just piss off.
Also, when the mails come in to you to gloat... please remember that some of us understood your stand.
| 203 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:10:54pm |
re: #171 LudwigVanQuixote
ANY POTUS, from any party, who succumbs to stuff like this is a bad sign. It cheapens the presidency and erodes the system.
And it sends a very powerful message of weakness to this nation's enemies.
| 204 |
Chekote Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:11:21pm |
re: #199 Charles
This is going to backfire on the GOP. Big time.
Exactly my sentiment. People on the left we starting to get disillusioned with Obama. This will energize them. For what? Does anyone here really think that Jones could do real harm. I am more worried about Geithner.
| 205 |
I Need A Bigger Gun Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:11:27pm |
re: #183 Charles
Damn, he must have really pissed you off. Remind me not to do that...
| 206 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:12:06pm |
re: #203 Slumbering Behemoth
And it sends a very powerful message of weakness to this nation's enemies.
Ding ding. Everyone, please note. We are not alone in the world.
| 207 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:12:11pm |
re: #201 Walter L. Newton
Nope. If this guy was SO INNOCENT there is no way he should have resigned, or the president should have accepted his resignation. Doesn't Obama and Van Jones have the morals to stand up for the truth.
If you were accused of something, and you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were innocent, you were correct, you had the truth on your side, would you just sulk away and blame it on your accuser?
I bet you would fight tooth and nail. Right?
That sounds like blaming the victim. What happened was that Obama has things he wants to get done, and he decided that he didn't need this guy being the headline. Obama caved. If he would have waited a week or two, it would have gone away.
| 208 |
tradewind Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:12:38pm |
re: #178 LudwigVanQuixote
Sorry, but it wasn't meant to be a racist comment. It was meant to cater to a nearly hundred year old man's vanity, which is something anyone could have said.
Funny that Byrd's very public use of the N word on the Senate Floor didn't cause him the same result.
It seems far more offensive to me. Double standard?
| 209 |
schnapp Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:12:47pm |
It's not right that a man's career is ruined by false accusations. Even if he was a loser anyway.
Like this guy whose career was ruined by some loony woman.
It's disgraceful.
| 210 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:13:06pm |
re: #201 Walter L. Newton
Nope. If this guy was SO INNOCENT there is no way he should have resigned, or the president should have accepted his resignation. Doesn't Obama and Van Jones have the morals to stand up for the truth.
If you were accused of something, and you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were innocent, you were correct, you had the truth on your side, would you just sulk away and blame it on your accuser?
I bet you would fight tooth and nail. Right?
Ain't how it's done in Washington, not for a long time.
| 211 |
trailortrash Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:13:12pm |
#171 LudwigVanQuixoteNo. You are a fool. Beck, lied about a presidential advisor in a smear campaign and got the resident to cave.
if lied = exposing truths, then yeah, he lied...
wth is this bizarro world?
| 212 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:13:13pm |
re: #203 Slumbering Behemoth
And it sends a very powerful message of weakness to this nation's enemies.
Yes, yes it does.
Do you think that guys like the dinner jacket don't see how much of a buffoon Beck et al are? Do you think he is impressed by our president's inability to deal with them?
| 213 |
Racer X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:13:36pm |
re: #199 Charles
This is going to backfire on the GOP. Big time.
Charles, I respect the heck out of you, and I'm with you on most issues. But I'm missing something here.
Pretend I'm dense. OK don't pretend. Why will this backfire on the GOP?
| 214 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:13:37pm |
re: #201 Walter L. Newton
Nope. If this guy was SO INNOCENT there is no way he should have resigned, or the president should have accepted his resignation. Doesn't Obama and Van Jones have the morals to stand up for the truth.
If you were accused of something, and you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were innocent, you were correct, you had the truth on your side, would you just sulk away and blame it on your accuser?
I bet you would fight tooth and nail. Right?
No way. Why in the world would anyone put up with this kind of crap for a comparatively low-paying government job?
| 215 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:13:40pm |
re: #208 tradewind
Yes, there is a double standard. Those are the political cards.
| 216 |
Fenway_Nation Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:14:10pm |
Damn...sounds like Joe Starkey is still calling games for Cal.
Anyone remember that Cal-Stanford game where Cal won in the final seconds while the Golden Bears were lateraling the ball while the Stanford band was on the field because they incorrectly assumed time had expired?
If anyone's seen the video from that, Starkey is the announcer hysterically yelling 'Oh, the band is out on the field!! He's gonna go into the end zone! He's gone into the end zone!!!'.
Here's more about The Play.
Wouldn't have known that Starkey had a job with Cal unless I heard him on XM...
| 217 |
Chekote Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:14:26pm |
What happened was that Obama has things he wants to get done, and he decided that he didn't need this guy being the headline. Obama caved. If he would have waited a week or two, it would have gone away.
Obama is inexperience and it shows more and more everyday. On top of that, he has really bad advisors.
| 218 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:14:29pm |
re: #214 Charles
No way. Why in the world would anyone put up with this kind of crap for a comparatively low-paying government job?
Good question.
Power pure and simple.
| 219 |
sagehen Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:14:30pm |
re: #39 Sharmuta
We've had czars for decades- why is this suddenly now an issue?
Because staffers that other presidents called "special assistant for policy area X", Obama calls "policy area X czar", and people looking for something to complain about get excited that suddenly there's a gazillion czars and czars are russian and communists are russian and never mind that communist marxist revolutionaries killed the czar it's still russian and death panels and global warming is good for the russians because St. Petersburg will be a year-round port and Siberia will grow wheat and you just can't trust any Russian, whether they're communists or czars and Rasputin is Putin and that's how Obama's going to hypnotize the children.
And evolution.
Isn't it obvious?
o/
| 220 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:15:08pm |
praesidere = to preside
the noun "president" has it's roots in a Verb.
| 221 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:15:17pm |
re: #181 SanFranciscoZionist
I think so.
But seriously, I have seen three or four people here in the last months express concern over Obama appointing 'czars', in light of its, y'know, Russian connection.
People:
1. Obama did not invent the title.
2. Historically speaking, communists don't like czars.
He didn't invent the position either:
The Council on Environmental Quality (CEQ) is a division of the Executive Office of the President that coordinates federal environmental efforts in the United States and in theory works closely with agencies and other White House offices in the development of environmental and energy policies and initiatives.
The United States Congress established the CEQ within the Executive Office of the President as part of the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969 (NEPA). Additional responsibilities were provided by the Environmental Quality Improvement Act of 1970.
This was signed into law by Richard Nixon.
If you go here and scroll down to Title II you can see the wording. It allow "may employ such officers and employees as may be necessary to carry out its functions under this Act." It's also allowed to accept private funding.
I've mentioned this before.
| 222 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:15:26pm |
re: #213 Racer X
I think it goes like this: Rational Republicans: -1; Crazy Republicans: +1. What portion of the republicans are going to have the headlines next week? Who will be the "public face" of the GOP?
| 223 |
tradewind Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:15:35pm |
re: #213 Racer X
I think it's going to blow back on Obama, because it is an obvious show of not defending your choices at all. Not even a perfunctory, feeble attempt.
Or then again, there could be much more that we do not know that is much worse, which is very likely the case, and they just cut their losses to prevent that scenario.
| 224 |
Chekote Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:15:47pm |
re: #213 Racer X
re: #199 Charles
Charles, I respect the heck out of you, and I'm with you on most issues. But I'm missing something here.Pretend I'm dense. OK don't pretend. Why will this backfire on the GOP?
Let me humbly tried. The Dem base was starting to get disillusioned with Obama. The Jones firing will enrage them and energize them.
| 225 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:16:07pm |
re: #221 Gus 802
Correct that. This is the private "funding wording:"
The Council may accept reimbursements from any private nonprofit organization or from any department, agency, or instrumentality of the Federal Government, any State, or local government, for the reasonable travel expenses incurred by an officer or employee of the Council in connection with his attendance at any conference, seminar, or similar meeting conducted for the benefit of the Council.
| 227 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:16:24pm |
re: #208 tradewind
Sorry, but it wasn't meant to be a racist comment. It was meant to cater to a nearly hundred year old man's vanity, which is something anyone could have said.
Funny that Byrd's very public use of the N word on the Senate Floor didn't cause him the same result.
It seems far more offensive to me. Double standard?
First of all I wanted his ass impeached for that.
Second of all I hated Strom. He was a klansman who opposed integration reffered regularly in the sixties to the Rev Martin Luther Coon, was a creationist and a general total piece of shit.
The fact that the GOP was busy kissing that old bastards' ass was bad enough. The fact that he had to tongue kiss the racist old south middle of that ass was just too much.
| 228 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:16:26pm |
re: #197 Van Helsing
the allegations of trooferism weren't the only reason.
Plenty of other reasons for Jones to never have been considered for the job.
Agreed. Let's set aside the truther thing for a moment.
Is there at least a scintilla of a possibility that some of the other "eccentricities" of Jones weren't known to their fullest extent or fully appreciated by Obama? If that is even remotely possible, is there a chance that Obama may have a "good riddance" attitude and is, as we speak, reaming out his so-called vetters.
Is that even the slightest bit possible? Humor me and say yes, because if the answer is no I'm forced to ask myself this question: Did Obama appoint Van "Kanye Was Right" Jones even knowing all of what's come out recently regarding Dr. Jones?
(and I repeat, I'm not talking about truther stuff here)
| 229 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:16:35pm |
re: #220 ggt
praesidere = to preside
the noun "president" has it's roots in a Verb.
I like etymology.
| 230 |
freetoken Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:16:43pm |
Last night I posted a spin-off about another brouhaha over a DI operation (Behe on blogginheads.tv.)
The controversy includes Carl Zimmer, well known science journalist, who flounced off blogginheads on the grounds that he won't associate with DI operatives, especially when the are given a free hand to say whatever they want.
In his comment piece on this Zimmer made some observations that apply to the Van Jones issue, I believe:
We have some wonderful new tools to tinker with, to build funky new devices. We can build communities in which lots of people can write, talk, read, and listen to discussions of science. And we can even expand those communities through linking and embedding and other kinds of mental infections.
These tools may look pretty and shiny, but they don’t really have any sort of new spirit built into them. We use them as we see fit. The problems that have made me part ways with Bloggingheads (and Carroll too) aren’t very different from the problems that science has long had in op-ed pages in newspapers. There have been some excellent essays about science in op-ed sections, but the fact is that they can also be very unhealthy for even the most basic facts in science.
A far more extreme example of old spirits and new tools is the Huffington Post. It has been celebrated as the future of journalism. But it’s a dumping ground for New Age quackery–the same quackery that Arianna Huffington was pushing long before she started her eponymous site.
I’m still going to play with the new tools that come my way. But I am going to think a lot more about the spirit in which those tools are being used.
When I look at all the new tools we have available in comparison to the 1950's: universally available live satellite TV, the internet, smart cellphones... I get the idea that we could really be living in a new era.
Then along comes Beck channelling Joe McCarthy... a boy with flashy new toys... but with an old (and stinky) spirit.
| 231 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:16:45pm |
re: #207 LudwigVanQuixote
That sounds like blaming the victim. What happened was that Obama has things he wants to get done, and he decided that he didn't need this guy being the headline. Obama caved. If he would have waited a week or two, it would have gone away.
Then Obama is the weak one.
| 232 |
Silvergirl Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:17:12pm |
Meg Whitman is a fan of Van Jones, so not all the GOP was against him.
| 233 |
zombie Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:17:12pm |
Wow -- he resigned quickly -- much quicker than I thought. But I'm not surprised.
I vowed to take him down politically. To that end, I "seeded" several stories about him to various outlets. (In other words, I sent anonymous tips, with necessary details, about true extremely disturbing documented statements from Jones.) Some burbled up into the news over the last week, but some of the most damaging ones I still have not seen emerge into the public eye. Which is strange. I have the feeling word got back to Jones or his handlers about what was going to be publicized. He resigned to stave off the exposure. I assume.
I'd still rather not say how closely I knew Jones, but (and you are free to disbelieve me if you so choose, because I will not be supplying any proof of this statement) he was an extreme political radical, and the stuff he said "off camera" was a hundred times worse than the stuff that is documented.
| 234 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:17:48pm |
| 235 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:17:57pm |
re: #214 Charles
No way. Why in the world would anyone put up with this kind of crap for a comparatively low-paying government job?
Nope. If I am right, I will fight to the end. And yes, I will fight even if it's evident that I will loose bigger even if I win. But, you know, that's just me.
| 236 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:19:36pm |
re: #233 zombie
Wow -- he resigned quickly -- much quicker than I thought. But I'm not surprised.
I vowed to take him down politically. To that end, I "seeded" several stories about him to various outlets. (In other words, I sent anonymous tips, with necessary details, about true extremely disturbing documented statements from Jones.) Some burbled up into the news over the last week, but some of the most damaging ones I still have not seen emerge into the public eye. Which is strange. I have the feeling word got back to Jones or his handlers about what was going to be publicized. He resigned to stave off the exposure. I assume.
I'd still rather not say how closely I knew Jones, but (and you are free to disbelieve me if you so choose, because I will not be supplying any proof of this statement) he was an extreme political radical, and the stuff he said "off camera" was a hundred times worse than the stuff that is documented.
This is going to backfire on you.
///
| 237 |
Fenway_Nation Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:19:56pm |
re: #214 Charles
No way. Why in the world would anyone put up with this kind of crap for a comparatively low-paying government job?
Resume enhancer?
/guess it depends on the administration and who one is trying to impress
| 239 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:20:11pm |
re: #230 freetoken
"There is nothing new under the sun"
--I don't know.
Technology doesn't change what we do, just how we do it.
| 240 |
BlueCanuck Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:20:34pm |
re: #229 Van Helsing
I like etymology.
I know isn't it fun to see where words come from and how they have evolved?
/beaten up on teachers about that too. :)
| 241 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:20:37pm |
re: #229 Van Helsing
I like etymology.
me too! I have a great dictionary for it, which is never where I need it when I want it.
Yes, I do sit and read the dictionary.
Sad, the life of a bibiophile.
| 242 |
Racer X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:21:18pm |
re: #231 Walter L. Newton
Then Obama is the weak one.
Thats what I'm thinking. No one is going to give a rats ass about Beck or the right wing nut jobs out there. This makes Obama look bad - again.
| 244 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:21:50pm |
re: #236 Walter L. Newton
You know, I'm really in no mood to put with this crap from you, Walter. I suggest you rein it in or I'll do it for you.
| 245 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:21:57pm |
re: #228 Pianobuff
Is there at least a scintilla of a possibility that some of the other "eccentricities" of Jones weren't known to their fullest extent or fully appreciated by Obama? If that is even remotely possible, is there a chance that Obama may have a "good riddance" attitude and is, as we speak, reaming out his so-called vetters.
I would certainly hope that is the case.
If that's not the case it means that Obama is either more arrogant than than he has appeared from time to time or utterly incompetent to deal with the management of anything more complex than a group of community organizers.
Either of those options doesn't give me the warm fuzzies about the next 3.5 years.
| 246 |
Chekote Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:22:10pm |
| 247 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:22:15pm |
re: #214 Charles
Some people value pull/power more that money.
| 248 |
tradewind Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:22:29pm |
re: #227 LudwigVanQuixote
I hate to disappoint you, but Thurmond was never a member of the klan, and denounced them publicly long ago. Really long ago, not in a conversion like his buddy Byrd.
Byrd , on the other hand, was your basic Exalted Cyclops.
| 249 |
BlueCanuck Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:22:31pm |
re: #241 ggt
I had a great Canadian dictionary for a college course once. It not only had the word's definition, it also had it's language of origin with the earliest spelling of it at the beginning. Unfortunately I lost it in one of my moves.
| 250 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:22:46pm |
re: #175 sven10077
oh believe me I wanted Obambi to keep Van around...Van was a walking campaign ad.
I've got a different take on this. What gets me is that the entire basis of the attacks on the folks in the Obama admin such as Jones is based on the idea that attitudes simply cannot change over time. How many Lizards are more conservative now that they were twenty years ago?
Marvin Olansky, who developed GW's whole concept of Compassionate Conservatism, was a former raving Commie before his come to Damascus moment. Yet he was welcomed into Republican circles as a Prodigal Son.
Why is it impossible for you to believe that Jones and others in the Admin have softened their previous stances? Why not look at what they are saying and doing *now* instead of what was previously said?
| 251 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:22:54pm |
re: #242 Racer X
Thats what I'm thinking. No one is going to give a rats ass about Beck or the right wing nut jobs out there. This makes Obama look bad - again.
He deserves it. Stupid appointment.
| 252 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:23:14pm |
re: #247 Dan G.
Some people value pull/power more that money.
I think that the allure of power is truly the root of all evil.
It is the most insidious addiction.
| 253 |
cg76 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:23:20pm |
Not personally upset that Mr. Jones is leaving. Given his history, well known here in the Bay Area, I was shocked he was granted such a high level position. The more video of his assorted statements came to light, the more I wondered why he was still around. I'm also shocked at how no one but Fox was covering it. Yeah, Beck seemed to be spearheading it, but then I don't take Beck that seriously. The crying and screaming and histrionics are a bit much. Considering how much Obama dislikes Fox, I seriously doubt he'd be making significant policy changes because of pressure from them.
Last, I think the Van Jones controversy and the school speech non-story are mostly just cover fire to deflect attention from the health reform debate and Afghanistan. If people are too busy ranting and fuming and frothing about the stupid stuff, they're not paying attention to the real business. Clinton did it and so did Bush.
Oh and never liked the czar title, never made sense to me. Government appointed position = royal title? And didn't the last real Czar get shot/assassinated. Not exactly a job title I'd jump for.
| 254 |
zombie Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:23:24pm |
re: #236 Walter L. Newton
This is going to backfire on you.
///
Well, I don't really know if my "tips" played any role at all in his actual resignation. I have no "media platform" myself, just the ability to play Deep Throat (Nixon style, not Linda Lovelace style) with actual facts. Could be that other factors were the real reason.
But Jones really did need to go. He was a communist in the '90s, a totally whacked out racial conspiracy theorist in the '00s, and I believe deeply hated this country. He completely re-invented himself in 2006, but I have my strong doubts it was very sincere.
| 255 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:23:30pm |
re: #199 Charles
This is going to backfire on the GOP. Big time.
It will become a taste of their own medicine in the future, with a most bitter flavor.
In the meantime, Beck will play up this Pyrrhic victory for greater ratings, laughing his Bircher loving ass all the way to the bank while his fans cheer him on, oblivious to the damage that awaits them.
I think I will stick with this catch phrase:
| 257 |
Racer X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:24:27pm |
| 259 |
BlueCanuck Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:24:38pm |
re: #254 zombie
Probably a thinly applied coat of ideology...
| 260 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:24:40pm |
And if you post links to sites that are attacking me, I'm going to delete them.
| 261 |
Chekote Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:25:10pm |
Difference between Obama and Bush is that Bush would have stood by his advisor until the bitter end.
| 262 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:25:17pm |
re: #248 tradewind
I hate to disappoint you, but Thurmond was never a member of the klan, and denounced them publicly long ago. Really long ago, not in a conversion like his buddy Byrd.
Byrd , on the other hand, was your basic Exalted Cyclops.
Byrd is way past his prime. If you ever watch him in session on C-SPAN, it's kinda sad. He really can't do it anymore. Unless, he is discussing the Constitution. Then he comes alive. Although I don't think I'd ever have voted for him if I lived in his constituency, I do think he LOVES the Constitution.
| 263 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:25:23pm |
re: #250 austin_blue
I've got a different take on this. What gets me is that the entire basis of the attacks on the folks in the Obama admin such as Jones is based on the idea that attitudes simply cannot change over time. How many Lizards are more conservative now that they were twenty years ago?
Marvin Olansky, who developed GW's whole concept of Compassionate Conservatism, was a former raving Commie before his come to Damascus moment. Yet he was welcomed into Republican circles as a Prodigal Son.
Why is it impossible for you to believe that Jones and others in the Admin have softened their previous stances? Why not look at what they are saying and doing *now* instead of what was previously said?
Are there a lot of fans of "compassionate conservatism" here?
| 264 |
BryanS Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:26:03pm |
re: #250 austin_blue
I've got a different take on this. What gets me is that the entire basis of the attacks on the folks in the Obama admin such as Jones is based on the idea that attitudes simply cannot change over time. How many Lizards are more conservative now that they were twenty years ago?
Marvin Olansky, who developed GW's whole concept of Compassionate Conservatism, was a former raving Commie before his come to Damascus moment. Yet he was welcomed into Republican circles as a Prodigal Son.
Why is it impossible for you to believe that Jones and others in the Admin have softened their previous stances? Why not look at what they are saying and doing *now* instead of what was previously said?
Compassionate Conservatism developed by a commie, you say? Why am I not surprised?
| 266 |
tradewind Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:26:22pm |
re: #254 zombie
Wow, he sounds almost like Bill Ayers. Glad there are no people like that advising the president now.
Oh wait...
| 267 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:26:32pm |
re: #43 freetoken
Perhaps I am the only one here, but I was nonplussed by the videos I watched of Van Jones. Certainly he did not appear to me to be the monster that Beck made him out to be.
However, what I do know is that I don't like this whole movement... That by repeating allegations or partial truths loud enough one can remove someone from a job.
Smacks of McCarthyism. A whole lot.
Agreed, FT. Here is what will happen:
1. The nuttiest in Greater Wingnuttia will declare this a victory. They will say it vindicates their claim that Jones was a troofer.
2. They will also claim that this somehow proves Charles wrong in some sense, for no reason other than they want to sling some mud.
3. The most cynical in Wingnuttia will take away the message that is they scream lies loud enough and long enough, they can force resignations or policy changes. A lesson they have already been learning, as with the removal of sce.1233 from HR3200.
and finally...
4. The 'reasonable' on the right will say, "Of course Jones wasn't a truther, but all this does is show how poorly Obama vets his candidates. He should have anticipated the shitstorm of lies the wingnuts would fling. And this only reveals how eager and willing Obama is to throw people under the bus, blah blah blah"
In other words, ODS will continue, LGF bashing will continue, and it's all Obama's fault anyway.
| 268 |
Chekote Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:26:45pm |
Are there a lot of fans of "compassionate conservatism" here?
Not me. I basically continued to support Bush because of the War on Terror.
| 269 |
Honorary Yooper Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:27:20pm |
Van Jones was a poor choice for an appointment, but the attacks on him were not good, as was the method of getting him to resign. The Troofer crappola was unnecessary. There were other, far, far more valid angles on Van Jones, but they were not taken in deference to the Troofer tact. It was the wrong thing to do and smacked of Alinskyism. This now has the potential to backfire on those who used the tact. Not now, but later, when the GOP has the presidency. It will be used on them then.
| 270 |
zombie Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:27:27pm |
re: #253 cg76
Not personally upset that Mr. Jones is leaving. Given his history, well known here in the Bay Area, I was shocked he was granted such a high level position. The more video of his assorted statements came to light, the more I wondered why he was still around. I'm also shocked at how no one but Fox was covering it. Yeah, Beck seemed to be spearheading it, but then I don't take Beck that seriously. The crying and screaming and histrionics are a bit much. Considering how much Obama dislikes Fox, I seriously doubt he'd be making significant policy changes because of pressure from them.
I'm really really glad I never saw any of the Beck shows about Jones - because they would have totally depressed me and made me give up any hope of having any of the true issues with Jones come to light.
As soon as a whack-job steps in to an important case, he tends to ruin it.
| 271 |
cliffster Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:27:30pm |
re: #261 Chekote
Difference between Obama and Bush is that Bush would have stood by his advisor until the bitter end.
Like Scooter Libby?
| 272 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:27:54pm |
re: #258 Dan G.
I'm not sure its the root, but it is close.
hmmm, I could have spelled it wrong. But I think it's right.
Rusty cogs in the brain and all that. . . .
I'm also thinking of the building/movie/place, The Presidio. 3rd declension i.o.? Those 3rd declension nouns --grrr!
| 273 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:28:00pm |
re: #250 austin_blue
[...]
Marvin Olansky, who developed GW's whole concept of Compassionate Conservatism, was a former raving Commie before his come to Damascus moment. Yet he was welcomed into Republican circles as a Prodigal Son.
[...]
Both are brother's-keeper ethics; not a big change philosophically.
| 274 |
tradewind Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:28:04pm |
re: #262 ggt
/Yeah, so did George Wallace/.
Byrd is obviously ill, and it's a shame that the people of WVa don't actually have two senators. If he loved the state so much, he would resign.
| 275 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:28:05pm |
re: #253 cg76
Oh and never liked the czar title, never made sense to me. Government appointed position = royal title? And didn't the last real Czar get shot/assassinated. Not exactly a job title I'd jump for.
The term has been in use in American politics for decades, so why is its use now an issue?
| 276 |
BryanS Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:28:15pm |
re: #262 ggt
Byrd is way past his prime. If you ever watch him in session on C-SPAN, it's kinda sad. He really can't do it anymore. Unless, he is discussing the Constitution. Then he comes alive. Although I don't think I'd ever have voted for him if I lived in his constituency, I do think he LOVES the Constitution.
True--we can count on Byrd to oppose ramming through health care reform on reconciliation.
| 277 |
Chekote Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:28:40pm |
re: #271 cliffster
I was thinking about giving a medal of honor to George "It's A Slam Dunk" Tenet. And he did commute Libby's senternce and stay with Rummie until the defeat in 2006.
| 278 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:28:41pm |
re: #263 Pianobuff
Are there a lot of fans of "compassionate conservatism" here?
There should be. It was that key to his first campaign that made independents comfortable with him. It was they key to his election in 2000. It made him soft and fuzzy, someone you'd like to have a beer with, unlike Mr. Stiff, Gore.
| 280 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:29:08pm |
re: #267 iceweasel
Agreed, FT. Here is what will happen:
1. The nuttiest in Greater Wingnuttia will declare this a victory. They will say it vindicates their claim that Jones was a troofer.
2. They will also claim that this somehow proves Charles wrong in some sense, for no reason other than they want to sling some mud.
3. The most cynical in Wingnuttia will take away the message that is they scream lies loud enough and long enough, they can force resignations or policy changes. A lesson they have already been learning, as with the removal of sce.1233 from HR3200.and finally...
4. The 'reasonable' on the right will say, "Of course Jones wasn't a truther, but all this does is show how poorly Obama vets his candidates. He should have anticipated the shitstorm of lies the wingnuts would fling. And this only reveals how eager and willing Obama is to throw people under the bus, blah blah blah"In other words, ODS will continue, LGF bashing will continue, and it's all Obama's fault anyway.
So what you're saying is that there is no 'reasonable right' at all.
Got it.
| 281 |
Honorary Yooper Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:29:11pm |
re: #275 Sharmuta
The term has been in use in American politics for decades, so why is its use now an issue?
No idea why now, but I've wondered about its use for quite some time (even under Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II).
| 283 |
Chekote Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:29:25pm |
Now that Jones is out, will the "death panels" come back?
| 284 |
tradewind Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:29:40pm |
re: #267 iceweasel
Charles never said that Jones shouldn't resign. He was making the point that there was no real evidence to say that he was a Truther.
Didn't matter... there was enough other stuff.
| 285 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:30:12pm |
re: #275 Sharmuta
The term has been in use in American politics for decades, so why is its use now an issue?
Probably because a lot of people think it was created by Obama. That and they think that Hawaii is not a state. ;)
| 286 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:30:16pm |
| 287 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:30:25pm |
re: #280 SasquatchOnSteroids
So what you're saying is that there is no 'reasonable right' at all.
Got it.
I think the only reason is around the Center. The Far Left and the Far Right are beyond reason. (IMHO)
| 288 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:30:44pm |
re: #272 ggt
Oh. Your statement was a quote? I'm objecting to the sentiment. I think that while aspiration to power over others lives is evil, I think there is something more fundamental behind it.
| 289 |
Fenway_Nation Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:30:48pm |
re: #280 SasquatchOnSteroids
Well...that and Van Jones was a splendid appointment completely beyond reproach...
//
| 290 |
Honorary Yooper Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:31:03pm |
re: #279 HawaiiLwyr
Please kindly fuck off and keep yourself and your tiny mind and its small horizons confined to the cesspool we fondly term the Deuce. Why the Deuce? Because it is a piece of shit, just like your comment.
| 291 |
zombie Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:31:05pm |
re: #266 tradewind
Wow, he sounds almost like Bill Ayers. Glad there are no people like that advising the president now.
Oh wait...
Jones was not nearly as bad as Bill Ayers. Jones was nonviolent and never hurt anyone. Ayers was a domestic terrorist with blood on his hands. Also, Ayers' loathing for America was highly "intellectualized" for lack of a better word, based on theories and book-reading. Jones' hatred was more like trend-hopping, based on his social interactions with an increasingly radical crowd.
| 292 |
Kosh's Shadow Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:31:29pm |
re: #282 Charles
Here they come.
Someone with -1 posts!
HawaiiLwyr
This user is blocked.
Registered since: Nov 21, 2008 at 6:31 pm
No. of comments posted: -1
No. of links posted: 0
| 293 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:31:37pm |
re: #267 iceweasel
Absolutely the idiots will use this to bash LGF and Charles.
All the while ignoring their truthers they are in bed with.
| 294 |
Racer X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:31:39pm |
Van Jones was forced out because he was - is - an asshole. Had nothing to do with him being an alleged "truther".
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Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:31:48pm |
| 297 |
Honorary Yooper Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:32:04pm |
This is a classic. Never seen negative comments before. LOL!
HawaiiLwyr
This user is blocked.
Registered since: Nov 21, 2008 at 6:31 pm
No. of comments posted: -1
No. of links posted: 0
| 299 |
tradewind Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:32:15pm |
Van Jones is what happens when a candidate believes.. or throws a bone to... Moveon.org's claim that ' we bought it we own it' re the Democrat party.
| 300 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:32:38pm |
re: #267 iceweasel
Agreed, FT. Here is what will happen:
1. The nuttiest in Greater Wingnuttia will declare this a victory. They will say it vindicates their claim that Jones was a troofer.
2. They will also claim that this somehow proves Charles wrong in some sense, for no reason other than they want to sling some mud.
3. The most cynical in Wingnuttia will take away the message that is they scream lies loud enough and long enough, they can force resignations or policy changes. A lesson they have already been learning, as with the removal of sce.1233 from HR3200.and finally...
4. The 'reasonable' on the right will say, "Of course Jones wasn't a truther, but all this does is show how poorly Obama vets his candidates. He should have anticipated the shitstorm of lies the wingnuts would fling. And this only reveals how eager and willing Obama is to throw people under the bus, blah blah blah"In other words, ODS will continue, LGF bashing will continue, and it's all Obama's fault anyway.
There are plenty of reasons for reasonable people on the right to not want Van Jones in that position, and for those same reasons to criticize Obama's vetting process and judgment. In fact, I learned a lot about Van "Kanye Was Right" Jones right here on this blog.
| 301 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:32:49pm |
re: #278 austin_blue
Wrong. As one of those independents that was not the basis of my decision, nor many others I've spoken with. It had more to do with fiscal responsibility (or the promise of it) and an executive with a backbone (militarily).
| 302 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:33:00pm |
re: #296 cg76
Broken record much? As I said in my post, I've ALWAYS had an issue with it.
I'll keep asking why it's an issue every time I see the stupid little meme posted at this site.
| 303 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:33:25pm |
re: #287 ggt
I think the only reason is around the Center. The Far Left and the Far Right are beyond reason. (IMHO)
Thee are reasonable people on both sides.
Reasonable Center Left - Ind - Center Right.
The freaks on the fringes throw rocks at each other, we're caught in the middle.
| 304 |
Kosh's Shadow Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:33:28pm |
re: #298 Fenway_Nation
Somebody jiggled the handle.
The creepy things come out from under their rocks at night.
| 305 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:33:49pm |
re: #297 Honorary Yooper
Look at this one:
Karma: -708
jeppo
This user is blocked.
Registered since: Aug 11, 2007 at 9:41 am
No. of comments posted: -387
No. of links posted: 20
| 306 |
zombie Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:33:53pm |
re: #269 Honorary Yooper
Van Jones was a poor choice for an appointment, but the attacks on him were not good, as was the method of getting him to resign. The Troofer crappola was unnecessary. There were other, far, far more valid angles on Van Jones, but they were not taken in deference to the Troofer tact. It was the wrong thing to do and smacked of Alinskyism. This now has the potential to backfire on those who used the tact. Not now, but later, when the GOP has the presidency. It will be used on them then.
It should be used on the GOP if some future Republican president appoints someone as inappropriate as Jones.
(This scenario is based on the fantasy that there ever will be another Republican president, which at this stage is looking very doubtful.)
I mean, Agnew was pressured out of the White House, as were various Reagan appointees, etc. It happens. Political pressure works, underhanded, overhanded, any-handed you got.
| 307 |
cliffster Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:33:57pm |
re: #297 Honorary Yooper
This is a classic. Never seen negative comments before. LOL!
Kinda sad. Got this account, BE SURE AND WRITE DOWN THE CREDENTIALS, and save it for this one glorious moment!! Oh, the pleasure, the release!
| 309 |
Chekote Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:34:49pm |
re: #291 zombie
Zombie
Do you think that Obama is going to stop seeking Jones' advice just because he resigned? The American people knew about the lefty background of Obama and his friends and elected him anyway. I would rather the GOP focusing on revising their agenda and moving to the center away from Beck and the rest of the nuts.
| 311 |
BryanS Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:35:17pm |
re: #301 Dan G.
Wrong. As one of those independents that was not the basis of my decision, nor many others I've spoken with. It had more to do with fiscal responsibility (or the promise of it) and an executive with a backbone (militarily).
I'd agree. Bush disappointed those who support smaller government. But allowing the extreme left to take over policies vis-a-vis terrorism just wasn't an acceptable option.
| 313 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:36:20pm |
re: #312 cg76
You will be sorely missed:
Registered since: Sep 27, 2008 at 6:20 pm
No. of comments posted: 16
No. of links posted: 0
| 314 |
freetoken Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:36:23pm |
re: #306 zombie
I mean, Agnew was pressured out of the White House, as were various Reagan appointees, etc. It happens. Political pressure works, underhanded, overhanded, any-handed you got.
Were not these instances because of (1) the possibility of criminal activity, or (2) because of something the did or said while in their position?
| 315 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:36:23pm |
re: #280 SasquatchOnSteroids
So what you're saying is that there is no 'reasonable right' at all.
Got it.
I'm saying that even the reasonable on the right now, with few exceptions, are mainstreaming kookery and adopting a scorched earth policy. No lie is too big to be pushed, and no offence or past association too small to be used to whip up a fine mess of froth.
| 316 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:36:24pm |
re: #301 Dan G.
Wrong. As one of those independents that was not the basis of my decision, nor many others I've spoken with. It had more to do with fiscal responsibility (or the promise of it) and an executive with a backbone (militarily).
Ummm...we were running in the *black* in 2000. Fiscal responsibility had *nothing* to do with that election. And, as GW himself said in the campaign, "I'm running against peace a prosperity, here."
Please try again. Positioning himself as "a different kind of Conservative" made *all* of the difference.
| 317 |
tradewind Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:36:33pm |
re: #291 zombie
You're right, the comparison was not a great one.
I just meant that their sound bytes were similar in tone, at least some of them. I never heard Jones advocate violence... he was always talking about how that was what America was doing to others, or how only white suburban kids were capable of it.
Bottom line was that he did not give the impression of someone who loves the country he worked for, and that bothered me.
| 318 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:36:35pm |
Charles, how (code-wise) does someone end up with a negative amount of comments? Don't the laws of conservation apply?
| 319 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:37:09pm |
re: #288 Dan G.
Oh. Your statement was a quote? I'm objecting to the sentiment. I think that while aspiration to power over others lives is evil, I think there is something more fundamental behind it.
Aw, geez Dan--I was thinking Latin and praesidere --thinking you didn't think it was the root of "president".
Anyway --No quote. I'm not a terribly religious person, but I've come to understand something about evil. And yes, I think that power is the most insidious addiction. Once one tries to become more powerful than whatever (G-d, Nature, The Great Spirit), one is on the WRONG road. Whether that be power over other's or the power to change oneself. I think that there is a trend going on in which individuals truly think they can "change the world" or "make heaven on Earth".
We've had enough examples of how that works in the 20th century.
| 321 |
freetoken Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:37:24pm |
re: #318 Dan G.
Don't the laws of conservation apply?
Not to time travel or crossing into alternate universes.
| 323 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:37:34pm |
re: #316 austin_blue
Thanks for telling me why I voted for him (not to turn around the budget, but to keep it that way).
| 324 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:37:59pm |
re: #303 SasquatchOnSteroids
Thee are reasonable people on both sides.
Reasonable Center Left - Ind - Center Right.
The freaks on the fringes throw rocks at each other, we're caught in the middle.
Whackos to the Left of me, Whacko's to the Right . . .
| 325 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:37:59pm |
re: #320 El fantasma de General Pinochet
Hey buddy, Pinochet was a cold blooded murderer.
| 326 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:38:15pm |
re: #281 Honorary Yooper
No idea why now, but I've wondered about its use for quite some time (even under Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II).
Under Reagan we had a drug czar.
| 327 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:38:30pm |
re: #300 Pianobuff
There are plenty of reasons for reasonable people on the right to not want Van Jones in that position, and for those same reasons to criticize Obama's vetting process and judgment. In fact, I learned a lot about Van "Kanye Was Right" Jones right here on this blog.
Yes, but none of those reasonable objections were getting the attention (except here, basically).
| 328 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:38:57pm |
re: #321 freetoken
I've always got a laugh out of the pluralization of that word (i.e. equivalent to "the everythings")
| 329 |
Drogheda Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:39:24pm |
I do believe that is the first flounce I've seen in real time.
| 330 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:39:30pm |
| 331 |
zombie Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:39:34pm |
re: #309 Chekote
Zombie
Do you think that Obama is going to stop seeking Jones' advice just because he resigned? The American people knew about the lefty background of Obama and his friends and elected him anyway. I would rather the GOP focusing on revising their agenda and moving to the center away from Beck and the rest of the nuts.
I don't consider myself a Republican, and don't make any effort to follow their "agenda," whatever it may be. From what little seeps through my self-imposed media semi-blackout, it seems the GOP is in a total shambles. They got nothin'. Since the blogosphere and the conservative pundits/ranters/hosts are not an actual "party" who sit around coming up with reasoned positions, the best they can do is take down the weakest members of the Democratic herd, like hyenas harrassing a migrating group of water buffalos. Van Jones was the calf with a limp -- and the pack descended.
| 332 |
Honorary Yooper Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:39:42pm |
re: #312 cg76
OK, that's just fucked in the head as well.
Thank you for playing LGF Flounce. I'm sorry to say that you do not win any of the fabulous prizes today. You missed out on the one way vacation to Zimbabwe, the 1990 convertible Yugo, and the 1,000 shares of Enron. You do however get a consolation prize. You get a one way trip out of LGF courtesy of Stinky Beaumont.
| 333 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:40:30pm |
| 334 |
Gretchen Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:40:47pm |
Sorry about that Charles, I hadn't read the linked article in my link. Couldn't figure out why I was deleted, but I see your point. My apologies.
| 335 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:40:56pm |
This is just sad, really. That dude, Obama, just ain't up to the job. He caves so quickly to his critics, who will never like even if he could produce Skittle shitting unicorns for everyone, and while doing so he is most likely pissing off the constituents he tried to please with certain appointments in the first place.
Gay elephant pr0n is more ready for prime time than he is.
| 336 |
Honorary Yooper Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:41:06pm |
re: #326 Sharmuta
Under Reagan we had a drug czar.
I know, but was not really thinking about it until junior high or so. ;-)
| 337 |
Racer X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:41:29pm |
re: #331 zombie
I don't consider myself a Republican, and don't make any effort to follow their "agenda," whatever it may be. From what little seeps through my self-imposed media semi-blackout, it seems the GOP is in a total shambles. They got nothin'. Since the blogosphere and the conservative pundits/ranters/hosts are not an actual "party" who sit around coming up with reasoned positions, the best they can do is take down the weakest members of the Democratic herd, like hyenas harrassing a migrating group of water buffalos. Van Jones was the calf with a limp -- and the pack descended.
Beautiful. Just beautiful.
| 338 |
zombie Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:41:35pm |
re: #314 freetoken
Were not these instances because of (1) the possibility of criminal activity, or (2) because of something the did or said while in their position?
I was way too young to actually "remember" anything about Agnew, but my vague memory of reading about it decades after the fact, was that Agnew was forced to quit before anything was actually proved against him. However, i could be wrong about that - - I'm no expert on the Agnew era.
| 339 |
Fenway_Nation Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:41:42pm |
re: #325 Gus 802
Hey buddy, Pinochet was a cold blooded murderer.
As was Che...yet there doesn't seem to be a huge selection of Pinochet T-shirts down at the Hot Topic.
| 340 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:42:15pm |
re: #331 zombie
[...]the best they can do is take down the weakest members of the Democratic herd, like hyenas harrassing a migrating group of water buffalos. Van Jones was the calf with a limp -- and the pack descended.
My take exactly.
| 341 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:42:22pm |
re: #315 iceweasel
I'm saying that even the reasonable on the right now, with few exceptions, are mainstreaming kookery and adopting a scorched earth policy. No lie is too big to be pushed, and no offence or past association too small to be used to whip up a fine mess of froth.
It seems to me that it is really a strange spin to blame this on the right. If Van Jones was so innocent, and had a moral anchor point, then he should have fought this.
I've lost things because I stood my ground when I was right, but that's the difference between someone with a moral anchor point and someone who will compromise their morals for some sort of gain (or fear of loosing something).
| 342 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:42:40pm |
re: #339 Fenway_Nation
As was Che...yet there doesn't seem to be a huge selection of Pinochet T-shirts down at the Hot Topic.
Yep. This had an added "context" however.
| 343 |
Andrew X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:42:50pm |
I'm not getting this whole "this is gonna backfire" thing.
Is this not what pretty much what happened to Sarah Palin? Hounded out of office by utterly relentless attacks and specific use of the very costly legal club via ridiculous accusations of "ethics violations"?
Now it is well and wonderful to try to move us all to a place "above all that" and to ask that the right be "better than that". But I am reminded of the fact that people have said what is needed in a presidential candidate is someone who can "reach across the aisle" and "appeal to moderates' etc. Well, John McCain was that in spades, and he and his party got stomped to pieces for it.
The moment I hear some real and genuine concern from the left on how Sarah Palin was and is treated, I'll start to concern myself with the Van Jones situation. Until then, too freekin' bad, Van. Stop hanging with people who despise the country that's paying your salary.
Meanwhile, I will note that what Zombie says about jones seems hugely plausible, just based on YouTube evidence alone. Hanging around with 9/11 truthers ought to be a disqualification to government employment, and an adminstration that thinks otherwise is deserving of all the hurt that they themselves are setting the table for.
| 344 |
Honorary Yooper Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:42:51pm |
re: #339 Fenway_Nation
As was Che...yet there doesn't seem to be a huge selection of Pinochet T-shirts down at the Hot Topic.
Wait. They'll be offered for sale on the Glenn Beck Show starting next week.
:-P
| 345 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:42:55pm |
re: #335 Slumbering Behemoth
This is just sad, really. That dude, Obama, just ain't up to the job. He caves so quickly to his critics, who will never like even if he could produce Skittle shitting unicorns for everyone, and while doing so he is most likely pissing off the constituents he tried to please with certain appointments in the first place.
Gay elephant pr0n is more ready for prime time than he is.
I strongly suspect this wasn't Obama caving in, but Van Jones getting out, both to save Obama any further negative publicity, and because it just doesn't make sense to put up with the insanity. It was only going to get worse.
| 346 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:43:07pm |
re: #326 Sharmuta
Under Reagan we had a drug czar.
Under Bush we had a bird flu czar, a Katrina czar, a regulatory czar, a domestic policy czar, a cybersecurity czar, an AIDS czar, and many more.
The czar freakout is analogous to the Jones freakout. There are good objections to make to the practice, namely, Does adding this extra layer of bureaucracy help or hinder policy making withing the Admin?
Instead of making those objections, people are seizing on the word czar, pretending no-one else ever had any, and insinuating that there is something communistic about the practice.
As with Jones, reasonable discussion and reasonable objections are being discarded or overlooked in the service of going Full Metal Freakout.
| 347 |
Silvergirl Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:43:13pm |
re: #267 iceweasel
Agreed, FT. Here is what will happen:
and finally...
4. The 'reasonable' on the right will say, "Of course Jones wasn't a truther, but all this does is show how poorly Obama vets his candidates. He should have anticipated the shitstorm of lies the wingnuts would fling. And this only reveals how eager and willing Obama is to throw people under the bus, blah blah blah"
On vetting, Obama has goofed in that area. Others have too. In fact, Meg Whitman probably wouldn't have hesitated to put Van Jones on her staff, whether running eBay or running for California's governor. You've probably seen the video.
| 349 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:44:07pm |
re: #326 Sharmuta
We've had appointed czars for a long time. Apparently, they are scary commiemarxistfascists only just now.
Fuck consistency and intellectual honesty, I wanna run around screaming like Chicken Little.
/
| 350 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:44:13pm |
re: #343 Andrew X
No one benefits from these tactics. It doesn't matter who did it first/most/whatever.
| 351 |
chapman Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:44:32pm |
Charles,
I like you. I respect you. I supported you in your pushback against the republican silly/crazy streak. But I can't support you in your defense against the charge that Van Jones is a "truther".
Why?
Because Van Jones falls into a category of truther that is both annoying and more common than the out right conspiracy theorist, namely, the guy who just "is asking questions."
In other words, Van Jones isn't necessarily of the belief that 9/11 was planned, but he is of the belief that it is okay to throw up a barrage of questions suggesting it is so. Whether that is a result of a desire to prove Bushco cause 9/11 or a result of a belief that these questions pose political advantage to the left, Van Jones has personally signed on in some way.
If you don't want to call him a truther, the only applicable label is "agent provocateur". Neither label merits participation in our executive branch.
You disagree in some substantial manner, I think that we will know more in the fullness of time. I don't take glee in his removal from his position, nor do I think this proves something about "my side" being right, but I think that this story highlights more about a person who made his fame on the fringe.
He thrived on that edge between acceptable and unacceptable. He got caught on the wrong side of that edge and if he didn't intentionally live in that margin, I'd feel much more pity for him. As it stands, I do not. Maybe you do. Reasonable men can differ. That said, Van Jones is not a reasonable man and even he understood that he no longer had a place in this administration.
| 352 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:44:34pm |
re: #345 Charles
I strongly suspect this wasn't Obama caving in, but Van Jones getting out, both to save Obama any further negative publicity, and because it just doesn't make sense to put up with the insanity. It was only going to get worse.
My take as well.
| 353 |
Fenway_Nation Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:44:36pm |
re: #335 Slumbering Behemoth
This is just sad, really. That dude, Obama, just ain't up to the job. He caves so quickly to his critics, who will never like even if he could produce Skittle shitting unicorns for everyone.
Thanks for reminding me- Skittles wants to run some ads during the pilot episode of Fenway & The Behemoth.
Gay elephant pr0n is more ready for prime time than he is.
Hmm...speaking of- has anyone heard from Thorbert McGee lately?
| 354 |
BatGuano Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:44:38pm |
re: #338 zombie
I remember he resigned an pleaded "Nolo Contendres" on charges of kick backs as governor of Maine.
| 355 |
zombie Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:44:40pm |
All I see are the mortar craters. I haven't had the (mis)fortune of actually seeing what's getting zapped!
| 356 |
Silvergirl Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:44:51pm |
re: #326 Sharmuta
Under Reagan we had a drug czar.
Nixon's energy czar, if that hasn't been mentioned.
| 357 |
schnapp Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:45:15pm |
re: #345 Charles
But no matter what I think of Jones, it still isn't right that he was brought down by lies and complete slander. But that is all too common today.
| 358 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:45:40pm |
re: #356 Silvergirl
Nixon's energy czar, if that hasn't been mentioned.
Nixon also went to China. China!1! Clearly it's a communist plot.
| 359 |
solomonpanting Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:45:55pm |
re: #327 iceweasel
re: #300 PianobuffThere are plenty of reasons for reasonable people on the right to not want Van Jones in that position, and for those same reasons to criticize Obama's vetting process and judgment. In fact, I learned a lot about Van "Kanye Was Right" Jones right here on this blog.
Yes, but none of those reasonable objections were getting the attention (except here, basically).
Well, there is this little matter of the MSM covering for Obama since, oh, he became a Presidential candidate.
| 361 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:46:55pm |
re: #351 chapman
But I can't support you in your defense against the charge that Van Jones is a "truther".
It's incredibly tedious to have to keep pointing out over and over that I was NOT "defending Van Jones."
I was defending the antiquated idea that accusations should be based on real, credible evidence. That accusation was NOT.
| 362 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:47:04pm |
re: #358 Sharmuta
Nixon also went to China. China!1! Clearly it's a communist plot.
I'm sure that's what the John Birch Society said. Including when McCain was part of opening up trade with Viet Nam.
| 363 |
Andrew X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:47:06pm |
RE: "No one benefits from these tactics. It doesn't matter who did it first/most/whatever."
The left has used these tactics big time for this entire decade. Let's see... election results 2006... and 2008...
Hmmm.
| 365 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:47:14pm |
re: #345 Charles
I'll wager you're right, but come Tuesday morning this will likely be all about how the True Patriots/ConservativesTM made Obama flinch.
| 366 |
freetoken Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:47:14pm |
So the question is... who is next? Can anyone guess who Beck & Co. will target for the next removal?
| 368 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:48:17pm |
re: #363 Andrew X
Riiight. Because getting into office improves everyone's life, right? How do such tactics lead to a good productive civil society?
| 369 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:48:17pm |
Well, that's our first outright racist comment of the night.
| 372 |
Bob Dillon Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:49:02pm |
re: #338 zombie
I was way too young to actually "remember" anything about Agnew, but my vague memory of reading about it decades after the fact, was that Agnew was forced to quit before anything was actually proved against him. However, i could be wrong about that - - I'm no expert on the Agnew era.
I remember - he was charged for taking kickbacks. Plead no contest and resigned.
The feds had the goods on him.
| 374 |
cliffster Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:49:16pm |
Wow, I wonder if he got a screenshot before he got whacked?
| 375 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:49:42pm |
re: #338 zombie
I was way too young to actually "remember" anything about Agnew, but my vague memory of reading about it decades after the fact, was that Agnew was forced to quit before anything was actually proved against him. However, i could be wrong about that - - I'm no expert on the Agnew era.
When he was Governor of Maryland, there were strong indications that he took kickbacks from major public works contractors.
| 376 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:50:01pm |
re: #366 freetoken
They will continue their assault on either Emmanuel or Holder; until the next "low hanging fruit" pops up.
| 377 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:50:03pm |
That's the first deletion in real-time I've been witness to.
The Stick of Stinky is quick.
| 378 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:50:09pm |
re: #366 freetoken
So the question is... who is next? Can anyone guess who Beck & Co. will target for the next removal?
I think they'll continue to attack the science czars.
| 379 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:50:30pm |
re: #366 freetoken
So the question is... who is next? Can anyone guess who Beck & Co. will target for the next removal?
Beck has already announced that he's going after Cass Sunstein next.
| 380 |
zombie Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:50:45pm |
re: #345 Charles
I strongly suspect this wasn't Obama caving in, but Van Jones getting out, both to save Obama any further negative publicity, and because it just doesn't make sense to put up with the insanity. It was only going to get worse.
I agree. It was going to get worse, much worse, and Jones knew the trail of evidence he had left behind. So far, we had only seen a small portion of it. Bombshell after bombshell was going to keep coming.
Jones was not ready for primetime. He realized that.
HOWEVER, I still stand by my prediction that Jones will be considered a candidate ca. 2020 for the Democratic nomination. (2016 is too soon.) 2024 if another Dem wins in 2016. By 2020 or 2024, Jones will have had sufficient time to erase most of his radical past -- just as Obama erased most of what he did in the '80s and first half of the '90s.
Jones is very intelligent and incredibly ambitious. He will be the second Obama. Or at least will try to be.
| 383 |
Silvergirl Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:51:43pm |
re: #379 Charles
Beck has already announced that he's going after Cass Sunstein next.
I haven't been introduced.
| 384 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:52:27pm |
re: #361 Charles
It's incredibly tedious to have to keep pointing out over and over that I was NOT "defending Van Jones."
I was defending the antiquated idea that accusations should be based on real, credible evidence. That accusation was NOT.
It's really not that hard to read. I've been doing it since I was a little kid. WTF is up with all these morans confusing the defense of truth with the defense of an arsehole?
| 385 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:52:31pm |
Sigh. I'd better go check the dead threads.
| 386 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:52:49pm |
re: #380 zombie
You're in a good position to write a book, it appears.
| 388 |
Drogheda Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:53:25pm |
re: #379 Charles
Beck has already announced that he's going after Cass Sunstein next.
Appears that Mark Lloyd and Carol Browner are also in his sights.
| 389 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:53:31pm |
| 390 |
kawfytawk Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:53:45pm |
re: #380 zombie
Good Gawd ...I hope your wrong about that...I don't have the stomach for Obama II
| 391 |
Chekote Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:54:30pm |
re: #380 zombie
Can you give us an example "worse" stuff about Jones?
| 392 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:54:34pm |
re: #383 Silvergirl
I haven't been introduced.
He's with the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs
| 393 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:55:04pm |
| 394 |
jk22 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:55:26pm |
re: #1 Sharmuta
That should give Van more quality time for communism and anarchy events!!!
| 395 |
Racer X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:55:36pm |
re: #385 Charles
Sigh. I'd better go check the dead threads.
Set phasers to kill, monitor the spy, report abuse to stinky, watch the *poof*
| 396 |
Andrew X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:55:44pm |
I dunno, zombie. I say right now that America has zero problem electing a black person president, will have zero problem doing so in the future, that is a non-issue.
However, electing another racial "activist"???
I think many many many are feeling real burned on that score right now. I think Americans are fed up to here with racial politics, and I can't imagine someone as eyeball deep into that swamp as Van Jones has any chance at all for a nice long while.
| 397 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:55:49pm |
No tears here. Just a weary disgust at what’s become of politics in America.
I hear that.
| 398 |
borgcube Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:55:58pm |
Not to worry Lizards, Obama will grab another Ivy League lawyer out of the hopper and we'll start anew.
I think it's time to seriously consider adding a 28th amendment to The Constitution.
"No person who graduated from an Ivy League college and/or has a JD from any college in the universe shall be permitted to hold elected office or even get a hall pass to any federal building."
"Congress shall have no power to enforce or abolish this article because 2/3 of them are scumsucking lawyers in the first place."
| 399 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:56:32pm |
re: #346 iceweasel
Under Bush we had a bird flu czar, a Katrina czar, a regulatory czar, a domestic policy czar, a cybersecurity czar, an AIDS czar, and many more.
The czar freakout is analogous to the Jones freakout. There are good objections to make to the practice, namely, Does adding this extra layer of bureaucracy help or hinder policy making withing the Admin?
Instead of making those objections, people are seizing on the word czar, pretending no-one else ever had any, and insinuating that there is something communistic about the practice.
As with Jones, reasonable discussion and reasonable objections are being discarded or overlooked in the service of going Full Metal Freakout.
I personally would like to see fewer czars and have the executive branch work with the cabinets on policy. There were 10 or so with Bush, around 30 with Obama. The number is going up and I don't know why it would naturally stop going up other than public pressure. I have to admit it didn't bother me as much with Bush. Maybe 10 didn't seem like a lot and 30 does? What I do know is that I do not want the next R president to up the ante and have 50 czars. I hope it's an issue in the next election and hope that there will be some public pressure to make Obama and whomever else is running commit to some level of czar-purging. What if (not necessarily in a legislative sense but a pledge that both candidates would take) they committed to no more than N(5?) czar-type appointments?
I re-read Graubard's Command of Office not too long ago. Maybe you are familiar with it. It's basically a survey of 20th century presidencies showing the increased power the chief executive has taken over the course of years. It was a bit of a wake-up call to me the first time I read it and still is.
Maybe that's why I'd like to see some cutting back of the czars, even if it waits for the next campaign cycle.
| 400 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:56:58pm |
re: #393 austin_blue
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Lots of ammo there.
Sunstein is a proponent of judicial minimalism, arguing that judges should focus primarily on deciding the case at hand, and avoid making sweeping changes to the law or decisions that have broad-reaching effects. He is generally thought to be liberal despite publicly supporting some of George W. Bush's judicial nominees, including Michael W. McConnell and John G. Roberts.
We should burn him at the stake for sounding like such a communist.
| 401 |
sagehen Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:57:03pm |
re: #338 zombie
I was way too young to actually "remember" anything about Agnew, but my vague memory of reading about it decades after the fact, was that Agnew was forced to quit before anything was actually proved against him. However, i could be wrong about that - - I'm no expert on the Agnew era.
One of the rumors at the time was that Nixon was the one who leaked the evidence against Agnew, hoping it would distract the people who were digging into Watergate.
| 402 |
Fenway_Nation Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:57:03pm |
re: #390 kawfytawk
Good Gawd ...I hope your wrong about that...I don't have the stomach for Obama II
I'm not 100% sure I have the stomach for 0bama 1 or any of the 0bama prequels.
| 404 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:57:09pm |
re: #393 austin_blue
Sunstein's 2004 book, The Second Bill of Rights: FDR's Unfinished Revolution and Why We Need It More than Ever, advocates the Second Bill of Rights proposed by Franklin D. Roosevelt. Among these rights are a right to an education, a right to a home, a right to health care, and a right to protection against monopolies; Sunstein argues that the Second Bill of Rights has had a large international impact and should be revived in the United States.
At who's expense!?
| 405 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:58:21pm |
re: #400 Sharmuta
We should burn him at the stake for sounding like such a communist.
Sharm, it's the quote on taxes that will get the barkers crazy.
| 406 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:58:26pm |
re: #363 Andrew X
RE: "No one benefits from these tactics. It doesn't matter who did it first/most/whatever."
The left has used these tactics big time for this entire decade. Let's see... election results 2006... and 2008...
Hmmm.
1st. You're a fool if you believe that they won simply on these tactics.
2nd. If you approve of co-opting these tactics for your own gain, quit fooling yourself. You are a leftist. You need to join your ideological kindred and quit polluting the conservative pool with leftist ideology.
| 408 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:59:49pm |
| 409 |
Honorary Yooper Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:00:30pm |
WTF? There seem to be a lot of sleepers coming out of the woodwork.
| 410 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:00:43pm |
re: #407 Killgore Trout
Lively bunch tonight, eh?
Well, except for the ones shooting themselves in the head, yeah.
| 411 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:00:44pm |
re: #409 Honorary Yooper
WTF? There seem to be a lot of sleepers coming out of the woodwork.
Fully expected.
| 412 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:01:14pm |
re: #353 Fenway_Nation
Thanks for reminding me- Skittles wants to run some ads during the pilot episode of Fenway & The Behemoth.
I can imagine a series of TV shows as spinoffs from LGF. For example, one where avanti and walter share an apartment and continually have fights over everything. The Blog Couple. ;)
| 414 |
freetoken Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:01:42pm |
re: #396 Andrew X
I think many many many are feeling real burned on that score right now.
Well, perhaps I am not of the "many many many" crowd, but as for myself, who did not vote for President Obama, my sympathies are increasing for him.
Happened with GWB too. Voted for him only once, but as he got attacked from more and more nasty quarters he gained my sympathy.
| 415 |
Patton Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:01:59pm |
re: #345 Charles
At that level of government, nobody resigns on his own, and you're deluding yourself to think otherwise.
Jones was utterly unfit for any position in US government, and I'm untroubled by the method of his defenestration.
| 416 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:02:01pm |
re: #412 iceweasel
I can imagine a series of TV shows as spinoffs from LGF. For example, one where avanti and walter share an apartment and continually have fights over everything. The Blog Couple. ;)
Good idea, I run that pass my agent. Do you want to be our head writer.
| 417 |
sagehen Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:02:31pm |
re: #380 zombie
Jones is very intelligent and incredibly ambitious. He will be the second Obama. Or at least will try to be.
Cory Booker has way better odds.
| 418 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:02:33pm |
re: #394 jk22
That should give Van more quality time for communism and anarchy events!!!
Maybe he can go to a tea party with code pink.
| 419 |
Andrew X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:02:41pm |
Hey everyone, apperently "I'm a leftist" That's a first for me!
Wow, it feels weird. All the colors are like, slightly different. This is messed up, man.
| 420 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:03:42pm |
re: #404 Dan G.
At who's expense!?
rights vs. entitlements
In the abstract, I think it is a direct result of the lack of religion or something that passes for religion in a metaphysical sense. "Inalienable rights granted by our Creator"(Creator =something (one) not of this Earth.) Rights cannot be given or take away by anyone or thing of this Earth Meaning a government, a tyrant or a person.
Education, housing, healthcare are entitlements, we as a people agree to pool our money and provide for the common good. It is the right and the economical thing to do. The problem, IMHO, is when people confuse these things with Rights --they assume the Power of the Creator --however one wants to understand such things.
| 421 |
Drogheda Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:04:25pm |
re: #412 iceweasel
I can imagine a series of TV shows as spinoffs from LGF. For example, one where avanti and walter share an apartment and continually have fights over everything. The Blog Couple. ;)
Don't forget the angry, crazy neighbor who gets mad and flounces off then comes back pretending to be someone else.
| 422 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:04:31pm |
re: #419 Andrew X
Hey everyone, apperently "I'm a leftist" That's a first for me!
Wow, it feels weird. All the colors are like, slightly different. This is messed up, man.
Check the back yard. You can see your unicorn now. They're gorgeous!
| 423 |
J.D. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:05:14pm |
re: #351 chapman
...I think that this story highlights more about a person who made his fame on the fringe.
He thrived on that edge between acceptable and unacceptable. He got caught on the wrong side of that edge and if he didn't intentionally live in that margin, I'd feel much more pity for him. As it stands, I do not. Maybe you do. Reasonable men can differ. That said, Van Jones is not a reasonable man and even he understood that he no longer had a place in this administration.
This is surely a learning experience for him.
| 424 |
Silvergirl Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:05:21pm |
re: #393 austin_blue
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Lots of ammo there.
I don't know so much about this
His 2001 book, Republic.com, argued that the Internet may weaken democracy because it allows citizens to isolate themselves within groups that share their own views and experiences, and thus cut themselves off from any information that might challenge their beliefs, a phenomenon known as cyberbalkanization.
What about the global community we were promised with the internet?
Anyway, I like the idea that he went on Greta'a show with his dog.
| 425 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:05:29pm |
re: #412 iceweasel
I can imagine a series of TV shows as spinoffs from LGF. For example, one where avanti and walter share an apartment and continually have fights over everything. The Blog Couple. ;)
You and I can move to Milwaukee and work in a brewery...
| 426 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:06:27pm |
re: #419 Andrew X
Hey everyone, apperently "I'm a leftist" That's a first for me!
Wow, it feels weird. All the colors are like, slightly different. This is messed up, man.
Dude! It's the Unicorn Dust.
Which I assume is ground-up Unicorn Poop.
/
| 427 |
BatGuano Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:06:48pm |
re: #354 BatGuano
Oops, looked it up: It was Maryland. I knew it began with an "m" and was not Minnesota or Montana.
| 428 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:07:09pm |
My guess is the Obama vetting team might be getting a shake up itself. They suck.
| 429 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:07:10pm |
Overnight Thread is up --my cue to get some sleep.
weet dreams all!
| 430 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:07:27pm |
re: #416 Walter L. Newton
Good idea, I run that pass my agent. Do you want to be our head writer.
I'll work on a pilot script for you now! ;)
| 431 |
chapman Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:07:47pm |
re: #361 Charles
It's incredibly tedious to have to keep pointing out over and over that I was NOT "defending Van Jones."
I was defending the antiquated idea that accusations should be based on real, credible evidence. That accusation was NOT.
Don't parse words if you insist on doing so in a sloppy fashion. I specifically references the issue of "trutherism" in my statement, go back and look. I'm not charging you with defending Van Jones per se, I'm saying that you are defending Van Jones against a specific accusation of being a truther.
Yes, I find that the accusation against Van Jones is credible, albeit not overwhelming. Once again, reasonable men can differ. You respond saying "It's already been proven that you are wrong" may be sufficient in your own estimation. Fine. But it isn't for me.
I am not among the moronosphere calling you a fool for debating the issue. Instead, I'm trying to respectfully disagree.
I keep being told that the radical right is highjacking the GOP, but I see just as much evidence that the moderate center is trying to foist its dominance over the party.
I'd really rather not have the far right chop me off at the knees while the moderate enter chops me off at the neck. I have seldom commented in your blog after years of reading and never commented in AoS. I am trying to be a reasonable man. For some reason, it makes me feel like I'm put out by both ends.
I know, cry me a river. But just the same, if you want to convince a person like me that moderation is key, stop telling me I'm an idiot. I get that enough from everywhere else. With respect to Van Jones, I'd think that this is at least enough gray area for you to forgive some of us in our belief that he is a truther or some subspecies thereof.
| 432 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:08:07pm |
re: #398 borgcube
Not to worry Lizards, Obama will grab another Ivy League lawyer out of the hopper and we'll start anew.
I think it's time to seriously consider adding a 28th amendment to The Constitution.
"No person who graduated from an Ivy League college and/or has a JD from any college in the universe shall be permitted to hold elected office or even get a hall pass to any federal building."
"Congress shall have no power to enforce or abolish this article because 2/3 of them are scumsucking lawyers in the first place."
Yeah. Higher education is only for the corrupt! If they were honest folk, they'd be working at a fast food joint.
/
There are many prominent and respected Lizards here who are either lawyers, or have perused and achieved higher levels of education. The anti-intellectualism is disgustingly stupid, and it needs to stop.
And for full disclosure, I am a high-school drop-out, and I am getting sick of seeing those who busted their asses in college to achieve a higher standard of living be demonized by those who are jealous of their success.
And yes, I am broke as fuck.
| 433 |
Silvergirl Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:08:10pm |
re: #428 Sharmuta
My guess is the Obama vetting team might be getting a shake up itself. They suck.
Yes they do. There is much to be learned from this episode, and by many people.
| 434 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:09:22pm |
re: #432 Slumbering Behemoth
Yeah. Higher education is only for the corrupt! If they were honest folk, they'd be working at a fast food joint.
/There are many prominent and respected Lizards here who are either lawyers, or have perused and achieved higher levels of education. The anti-intellectualism is disgustingly stupid, and it needs to stop.
And for full disclosure, I am a high-school drop-out, and I am getting sick of seeing those who busted their asses in college to achieve a higher standard of living be demonized by those who are jealous of their success.
And yes, I am broke as fuck.
Right on, My Brother.
| 435 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:10:00pm |
re: #420 ggt
Creator doesn't need to be "not of this Earth", it was used as a means of conveying that rights are inherent to being a human; just as my creator (my parents ;) ) gave me a heart, they gave me rights. But in essence, I do agree with you, it is a lack of philosophical level understanding of the nature of rights that leads to such abominations (I truly get physically riled when someone uses "rights" to describe "entitlements").
You should read his stance on the 1st Amendment as well; it is essentially an attack on the right of association (disparages that like-minded people tend to communicate more with themselves, thinks the internet is a bad thing). The crazies will be on him like stink on shit; and I fear that it will be for the wrong reasons and his truly bad features will not be addressed.
| 436 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:10:22pm |
re: #424 Silvergirl
What about the global community we were promised with the internet?
Anyway, I like the idea that he went on Greta'a show with his dog.
That prediction from '01 was rather prescient, wasn't it? That's why I post on LGF exclusively. I get a mix of ideas, philosophies and opinions here. Not an echo chamber. I am more socially liberal than most on this board. I like the give and take.
| 437 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:12:12pm |
re: #435 Dan G.
I would probably mot worry about this man particular positions. Likely it will be a fabrication or distortion used against him like we saw with death panels and trutherism.
| 438 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:12:17pm |
re: #435 Dan G.
Creator doesn't need to be "not of this Earth", it was used as a means of conveying that rights are inherent to being a human; just as my creator (my parents ;) ) gave me a heart, they gave me rights. But in essence, I do agree with you, it is a lack of philosophical level understanding of the nature of rights that leads to such abominations (I truly get physically riled when someone uses "rights" to describe "entitlements").
You should read his stance on the 1st Amendment as well; it is essentially an attack on the right of association (disparages that like-minded people tend to communicate more with themselves, thinks the internet is a bad thing). The crazies will be on him like stink on shit; and I fear that it will be for the wrong reasons and his truly bad features will not be addressed.
Also, remember that the Creator is in the Declaration, but not in the Constitution. Replaced by the social contract in the preamble.
| 441 |
Silvergirl Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:14:04pm |
re: #436 austin_blue
That prediction from '01 was rather prescient, wasn't it? That's why I post on LGF exclusively. I get a mix of ideas, philosophies and opinions here. Not an echo chamber. I am more socially liberal than most on this board. I like the give and take.
You know, I call it more common sense than prescience. Birds of a feather--that sort of thing. Why wouldn't it expand exponentially with a worldwide instant audience?
| 442 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:15:28pm |
re: #438 austin_blue
Right. And from the biography on Adam's I'm reading, the ideas that led to the codification of rights in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution state essentially what I recalled above.
| 443 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:15:31pm |
re: #425 Sharmuta
You and I can move to Milwaukee and work in a brewery...
ha! But who would be our Lenny and Squiggy?
| 444 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:16:37pm |
re: #431 chapman
Don't parse words if you insist on doing so in a sloppy fashion.
Then don't post comments full of sloppy thinking.
I specifically references the issue of "trutherism" in my statement, go back and look. I'm not charging you with defending Van Jones per se, I'm saying that you are defending Van Jones against a specific accusation of being a truther.
And again, you're simply wrong. I did not "defend Van Jones." I defended the concept of basing accusations on valid credible evidence. You're either unable or unwilling to grasp this very simple point.
| 445 |
zombie Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:17:14pm |
One of the issues that really disgusted me about Van Jones which as far as I could tell got ZERO mention in this recent brouhaha was how rabidly anti-Israel he was, to the extent of becoming one of those on-the-scene pro-Palestinian "reporters"/propagandists in the West Bank sent there by the Stalinist radio station KPFA. He also joined in with the frothing maniacs of Students for Justice in Palestine in several "actions," including an infamous one in which they hijacked a Holocaust Remembrance Day and took over the protest site by force and then read kaddish for all the victims of the the murderous Jews.
I witnessed myself that second incident, shortly before I made the conversion to the zombie persona. In fact, it was one of the things that pushed me away from moonbathood.
Much of his vicious anti-Israel (borderline anti-Semitic, it seemed to me) beliefs are now forgotten, but there is some remaining evidence.
For example, there's this page at Indy Media with a transcript of one of his broadcasts from Palestine:
(Indy media redirects LGF links: here's the URL w/spaces for pasting: )
http:// www. indybay .org/newsitems/2002/12/30/15558891.php
20:27 Dennis: now w Van Jones of the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights in San Francisco.. Van: I came to the holy land to get a view of the human rights situation.. I was totally unprepared.. THE WORST RACIAL PRACTICES OF THE LAST CENTURY ARE PRESENT HERE, IN SHOCKING COMBINATION.. Arab citizens under a pass situation like apartheid.. about the harrassment of an Arab American in our group at the airport.. people in the US don't have a clear view of what is going on.. like 'settlements'.. 30,000 people in massive cities, with Burger Kings and malls, and defended with the whole might of the Israeli army.. wholesale demolition of Palestinian homes.. the US supporting the whole mess.. to see it.. to see what it means for Arab people is really really distressing.. Dennis: US media shows Israel backed into a corner.. Van: I came over here very concerned about Israeli children living in fear.. nobody is winning here.. WHAT I'VE SEEN HERE GOES FAR BEYOND WHAT COULD BE CONSIDERED FOR SAFETY.. ABSOLUTE HOUSE ARREST FOR EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN A CITY.. 24/7 FOR WEEKS AT A TIME.. NONE OF THIS COULD RATIONALLY BE CONCEIVED OF AS DEFENCE.. I HAVE BEEN A LIFELONG OPPONENT OF ANTI-SEMITISM.. NOW NOT TO SPEAK OUT HERE IS ANTI-SEMITIC.. WE OWE IT TO THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.. AND PALESTINE.. TO PUT AN END TO THESE KIND OF ABUSES.. THERE IS NO DIVISION BETWEEN US POLICY TOWARD IRAQ AND TOWARD ISRAEL-PALESTINE.. THE US GOVERNMENT ON THE WRONG SIDE OF SANITY.. to push Iraq into a corner and threaten it with massive war.. we need new leadership in Tel Aviv and Washington.
(The one I heard on the radio seemed much worse, however.)
There was one sympathetic account of the SJP incident where Van Jones helped to usurp Holocaust Remembrance Day:
The Israel supporters seemed merely scornful of the Palestinian speakers; it took one of their own to infuriate them. When Micah Beazant, a young Jewish kid with a skinny build and a tremulous voice, spoke of his family's Holocaust casualties, decried the practice of labeling anti-Zionist critics "self-hating Jews," and recited the Kaddish prayer for dead Palestinians, the Zionists began screaming. "Shame on you!" "Sacrilege!" "The next Holocaust is gonna be because of you!"Van Jones, the celebrity lawyer for the Bay Area radical left, soon got into an argument with one of the hecklers. "You're interrupting prayers," he scolded. "You make yourselves look very bad."
"This is our day of remembrance, and you're demeaning all of us," the heckler retorted. "Why pick this day?"
I've never seen a report on this infamous day from the pro-Israel side, but from what I witnessed, it was stomach-churning.
| 446 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:18:02pm |
re: #435 Dan G.
Creator doesn't need to be "not of this Earth", it was used as a means of conveying that rights are inherent to being a human; just as my creator (my parents ;) ) gave me a heart, they gave me rights. But in essence, I do agree with you, it is a lack of philosophical level understanding of the nature of rights that leads to such abominations (I truly get physically riled when someone uses "rights" to describe "entitlements").
You should read his stance on the 1st Amendment as well; it is essentially an attack on the right of association (disparages that like-minded people tend to communicate more with themselves, thinks the internet is a bad thing). The crazies will be on him like stink on shit; and I fear that it will be for the wrong reasons and his truly bad features will not be addressed.
I don't know Dan, --I think "not of this Earth" is important in some fundamental sense. Humans addicted to the idea of Power will find a way otherwise. Every example I can think of from history in which one's status is determined by something of this Earth, it turns out badly. The status of one's parents has been used in this country to determine who could and could not vote (in certain states), for example. I've tried to think my way around it for several years and can't. "The Transcendent" is important, in a very fundamental way, to Reason and therefore, our way of life.
Anyway, that's for the responses, I'm really going to bed now.
(I will not hit the new comment button, I will nto hit the new comment button . . . )
| 447 |
borgcube Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:18:25pm |
re: #432 Slumbering Behemoth
Just trying to inject a little fun in here. With that said, recent Ivy League types and lawyers have brought us untold levels of corruption in government and Wall Street. And I've never heard anyone say that the problem with Congress is that we need some more lawyers in there.
Frankly, I'd like to see more "regular" folks going in for a couple terms and then going back to real life, whatever that is, including those who graduated from Ivy League schools and practicing law, along with the mailman, the small business owner, the school nurse, and the farmer. I believe wholeheartedly that this was the intended model of Congress, especially the House.
| 448 |
Bloodnok Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:18:25pm |
| 449 |
zombie Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:19:12pm |
Sorry, I double-posted comment #445 on this thread and the overnight thread.
| 452 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:20:37pm |
re: #442 Dan G.
Right. And from the biography on Adam's I'm reading, the ideas that led to the codification of rights in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution state essentially what I recalled above.
I suppose...
Adams was sneaky smart, wasn't he?
| 453 |
zombie Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:21:02pm |
re: #391 Chekote
Can you give us an example "worse" stuff about Jones?
Well, see comment #445 for starters.
| 455 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:22:35pm |
re: #445 zombie
I've never seen a report on this infamous day from the pro-Israel side, but from what I witnessed, it was stomach-churning.
Wasn't going to be missing him at all anyway, but thanks for that additional insight as to why he should never have been put into that CEQ job.
Or any job with the feds.
| 456 |
FamHistoryGuy Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:24:21pm |
I have been watching a show from 2005/06 called Commander in Chief. Seems to forecast a lot of what has happened in the past year and a half. Anyone else seen it? It is available on Hulu.
| 457 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:25:02pm |
An interesting parallel in re: #446 ggt
Identity is immutable. The political philosophers who developed the concept of rights (Locke et al). believed that rights were intrinsic to being human (i.e. part of the metaphysical identity). Whether those rights are acknowledged or not is a different story and nothing, but individuals standing up for themselves, would stop a tyrant from trampling them anyway. And that is the power of the idea of individual rights, it is a rallying point for self-defense.
I'd like to discuss this at more length, but comment threads aren't a good place for it (technically).
| 458 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:25:15pm |
re: #434 Sharmuta
Please forgive my foul language, but this anti-education, anti-intellectualism trend is nothing more than butt-fucking munted class warfare. It is as leftist as leftist can be, and the crybaby bitches that pitch this crap need to come to terms with the fact that they are nothing more than gawt-damned leftists.
I fucked up and dropped out of high-school. That's my problem, and I own it.
The so called "elite intelligentsia" that some love to shit on all the time? Some of them are assholes, some of them are great people. But to piss on all who sought higher education? It's class warfare, and nothing else.
| 460 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:25:27pm |
| 461 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:25:29pm |
re: #454 Racer X
I don't see why a young Jewish boy getting attacked for his position by being told things like:
"The next Holocaust is gonna be because of you!"
should be less stomach churning than Van Jones defending the kid.
| 462 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:27:23pm |
re: #458 Slumbering Behemoth
Please forgive my foul language, but this anti-education, anti-intellectualism trend is nothing more than butt-fucking munted class warfare. It is as leftist as leftist can be, and the crybaby bitches that pitch this crap need to come to terms with the fact that they are nothing more than gawt-damned leftists.
I fucked up and dropped out of high-school. That's my problem, and I own it.
The so called "elite intelligentsia" that some love to shit on all the time? Some of them are assholes, some of them are great people. But to piss on all who sought higher education? It's class warfare, and nothing else.
Anti-intellectualism comes from both the left and the right. Here's a good essay on the phenomenon.
| 463 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:28:44pm |
re: #452 austin_blue
So far as I can tell (not done yet). I'm finding interesting parallels between then and now. Adams apparently thought Tomas Paine was an off target shill and just riling the masses with the wrong ideas; sort of like others in the yellow-journalism comentator field today.
| 465 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:29:47pm |
re: #462 Sharmuta
Anti-intellectualism comes from both the left and the right. Here's a good essay on the phenomenon.
Fair enough, but only one party has made anti-intellectualism a plank and used it as proof that someone is a Real Murkin, and made intellectual achievment a slur-- and that ain't on the left.
| 466 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:31:32pm |
re: #465 iceweasel
The GOP owns that albatross lock, stock, and barrel.
| 467 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:34:34pm |
re: #343 Andrew X
Is this not what pretty much what happened to Sarah Palin? Hounded out of office by utterly relentless attacks and specific use of the very costly legal club via ridiculous accusations of "ethics violations"?
Uh, no. Sarah Palin quit all on her own. She wasn't "hounded out of office."
| 468 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:35:13pm |
re: #466 Dan G.
The GOP owns that albatross lock, stock, and barrel.
Albatross? What are you, some kinda college-goin' commie sympathiser?
Real americans don't have a al-be-tross around their necks-- it's a sea gull, dammit!
| 469 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:35:29pm |
re: #465 iceweasel
Fair enough, but only one party has made anti-intellectualism a plank and used it as proof that someone is a Real Murkin, and made intellectual achievment a slur-- and that ain't on the left.
Certainly. Remind me next time we're chatting in private to tell you about my Grandpa the Doctor.
| 470 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:37:42pm |
re: #463 Dan G.
So far as I can tell (not done yet). I'm finding interesting parallels between then and now. Adams apparently thought Tomas Paine was an off target shill and just riling the masses with the wrong ideas; sort of like others in the
yellow-journalismcomentator field today.
Adams was truly a man of The Enlightenment. A dreamer. He wanted a Constitution that ensured a Civil society, in which all strove for "the common good" in the Preamble.
| 471 |
Bloodnok Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:38:05pm |
re: #460 iceweasel
Hallo there. :)
Hi!
I think I'd make a fine greaser. Though it would have to be the Milwaukee Laverne and Shirley and not the ones where they were in California. Those don't count (even though they did have life-sized Beatles cutouts).
| 472 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:39:27pm |
| 473 |
LieSeeker Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:40:23pm |
AP can't bring itself to describe the "controversy" nor "past statements". Don't they still teach Who, What, When, Where, Why in Journalism Skool?
| 474 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:40:28pm |
| 475 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:41:33pm |
One thing is guaranteed -- this little episode is definitely not going to improve the standing of the GOP or conservatives in the African American community. It had the distinct odor of a lynch mob about it.
We're going to see some serious anger in response.
| 476 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:42:30pm |
re: #447 borgcube
Just trying to inject a little fun in here.
Anti-intellectualism has been a theme with many who call themselves conservative, and not just recently. This bullshit meme has been a thorn in my ass for quite some time. I got to the boiling point on this subject, and used your post as the jumping board for my polemic. I apologize if I mis-characterized your intent.
With that said, recent Ivy League types and lawyers have brought us untold levels of corruption in government and Wall Street.
Our last POTUS was an Ivy Leaguer. Many of his supporters seem to forget that fact when indulging in their anti-education, anti-intellectual screeds. It's hypocritical.
Again, I apologize if I have misinterpreted your post. This is just one of those things that has been irritating me quite a bit lately.
| 477 |
Andrew X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:42:56pm |
If I may charm in on the anti-intellectualism subject, one must consider that, if contempt is being thrown at them for being intellectuals, could it possibly be a factor the number of intellectuals who have been so long willing to throw contempt at those who are not?
Given that intellectuals are not limited to, but certainly predominate on college campuses, wouldn't it stand to reason that the willingness of academic communities to treat vast and huge swaths of the American public with denigration, patronization, and contempt is going to foster a return sentiment?
It is analogous to look at Hollywood. It is staggering how many Hollywood types are willing to antagonize huge numbers of their potential (or former) fans in servicing their leftist world-view. There is an article out there about how the movie "star" may be dead, as they are not bringing it in at the box office or DVD like they used to... none of 'em. And it is posited that the outspoken ones who do cop an elitist, knowier-than-thou attitude, have in fact poisoned the brand for them all, even ones who have not uttered a political word in their life. It's not those people specificqlly whom contempt is being returned to, but rather "Hollywood" as a whole.
I think something similar is going on with academics, and with genuine or sef-styled "intellectuals". Many are nice, and open-minded, but SO many, on our campuses, cannot contain their disdain and disparagement of conservatism, republicans, and just the "common-people", if you will, that they see themselves as SO "not part of".
When contempt is given, it is naturally returned. That doesn'tmake it right on either side, but it sure does help explain it.
| 478 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:43:47pm |
re: #472 LudwigVanQuixote
You may be correct, but, I think O caved. I hope I'm wrong.
I hope you're wrong too. I'm not sure it's in O's nature to cave.
He is all about making concessions, though.
| 479 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:45:05pm |
re: #477 Andrew X
How much is perception and how much is reality. I don't recall a single professor holding me in disdain.
| 480 |
Andrew X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:45:07pm |
RE: Sarah Palin quit all on her own. She wasn't "hounded out of office."
And it is equally clear that Van Jones has resigned "all on his own". He was not fired. He has chosen to quit. Entirely on his own. So what's the problem?
Unless maybe, in both cases, there is, shall we say, a bit more to the story.
| 481 |
TheMatrix31 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:45:49pm |
re: #475 Charles
One thing is guaranteed -- this little episode is definitely not going to improve the standing of the GOP or conservatives in the African American community. It had the distinct odor of a lynch mob about it.
We're going to see some serious anger in response.
I really hope it doesn't become a racial issue. That's the last thing this story needs.
| 482 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:45:53pm |
re: #462 Sharmuta
Thanks for the link. I shall read that at a point in the future when I am not so, um, "fired up".
| 483 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:46:36pm |
re: #475 Charles
One thing is guaranteed -- this little episode is definitely not going to improve the standing of the GOP or conservatives in the African American community. It had the distinct odor of a lynch mob about it.
We're going to see some serious anger in response.
What's less than zero? The leadership of the Rs has abdicated to teh crazees. It's all welfare queens this and illegal immigrants that. The real problem is that the moderates and Independents are going to get truly disgusted with the serial witch hunt that will surely follow this resignation.
| 484 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:47:02pm |
re: #483 austin_blue
What's less than zero? The leadership of the Rs has abdicated to teh crazees. It's all welfare queens this and illegal immigrants that. The real problem is that the moderates and Independents are going to get truly disgusted with the serial witch hunt that will surely follow this resignation.
exactly
| 485 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:47:27pm |
re: #477 Andrew X
If I may charm in on the anti-intellectualism subject, one must consider that, if contempt is being thrown at them for being intellectuals, could it possibly be a factor the number of intellectuals who have been so long willing to throw contempt at those who are not?
(snip)I think something similar is going on with academics, and with genuine or sef-styled "intellectuals". Many are nice, and open-minded, but SO many, on our campuses, cannot contain their disdain and disparagement of conservatism, republicans, and just the "common-people", if you will, that they see themselves as SO "not part of".
When contempt is given, it is naturally returned. That doesn'tmake it right on either side, but it sure does help explain it.
Not buying it. This is essentially projection by the anti-intellectuals to justify their resentment.
Moreover, there certainly IS disdain among intellectuals and academia and others for anti-intellectualism--- and that's being used as an excuse for the anti-intellectual apologists to say "See, they started it".
Or, in intellectual terms, Tu Quoque.
| 486 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:47:27pm |
re: #483 austin_blue
What's less than zero? The leadership of the Rs has abdicated to teh crazees. It's all welfare queens this and illegal immigrants that. The real problem is that the moderates and Independents are going to get truly disgusted with the serial witch hunt that will surely follow this resignation.
Ohhh and it will push the Dems to counter by taking out former Bush officials.
| 487 |
peppermintboy Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:48:06pm |
re: #369 Charles
Well, that's our first outright racist comment of the night.
#127 "...Obama is a surrender monkey..."
Maybe because I'm black i guess i could be over reacting and it is OK to call the president a monkey now?
I'm NOT a fan of Obama. But i don't see any need to call him a monkey either.
Thank you in advance.
| 488 |
solomonpanting Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:48:19pm |
re: #481 TheMatrix31
I really hope it doesn't become a racial issue. That's the last thing this story needs.
OTOH, Charles Rangel did say prejudice against Obama is helping to fuel his critics on health care reform.
| 489 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:48:35pm |
re: #482 Slumbering Behemoth
Thanks for the link. I shall read that at a point in the future when I am not so, um, "fired up".
No problem, Dear.
| 490 |
Andrew X Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:49:17pm |
"I don't recall a single professor holding me in disdain."
I was at a UC, involved in journalism there, and far less able to debate these issues than I am now. I damn sure knew when to keep my mouth shut and my head down, and the contempt held by many a faculty member toward the ideas, arguments, and yes, the people, on the right side of the spectrum was obvious and inescapable.
| 491 |
Wide Right Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:49:19pm |
Oh, c'mon Van, were just getting to know ya...NEXT!
| 492 |
FamHistoryGuy Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:49:36pm |
re: #475 Charles
They got what they wanted. Too bad they did not take a close look at what was clinging to his shoes. If they had they might not have gotten the feedback they have.
| 493 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:52:43pm |
A conservative mailing list I've been trying to get unsubscribed from (they won't seem to let me go) is now circulating photos of a black man with his pants around his ankles.
| 494 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:53:45pm |
re: #493 Charles
A conservative mailing list I've been trying to get unsubscribed from (they won't seem to let me go) is now circulating photos of a black man with his pants around his ankles.
Oh that is disgusting.
| 497 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:55:24pm |
re: #494 LudwigVanQuixote
Oh that is disgusting.
Horrific. What has political discourse come to? I'm not being sarcastic. This is beyond the pale.
It's *evil*.
| 498 |
Silvergirl Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:56:00pm |
re: #487 peppermintboy
#127 "...Obama is a surrender monkey..."
Maybe because I'm black i guess i could be over reacting and it is OK to call the president a monkey now?
I'm NOT a fan of Obama. But i don't see any need to call him a monkey either.
Thank you in advance.
LVQ, someone is thanking you in advance.
| 499 |
tradewind Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:56:45pm |
re: #487 peppermintboy
That's a comment that people should be sensitive about when speaking of the first African American president, and never use. But I think some context might make you feel a little better... it comes from the phrase ' cheese eating surrender monkeys', first used by some columnist, and it refers to the French, in the aftermath of 9-11 when they appeared to buckle to Islamic pressures re Iraq. It was not meant as a racial slur then... but I can see how it could be taken that way, especially if you hadn't known the origin.
| 500 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:57:06pm |
re: #487 peppermintboy
#127 "...Obama is a surrender monkey..."
Maybe because I'm black i guess i could be over reacting and it is OK to call the president a monkey now?
I'm NOT a fan of Obama. But i don't see any need to call him a monkey either.
Thank you in advance.
I'm pretty sure there was no racist intent there. "Surrender monkey" is a generic term for someone who easily capitulates to pressure, not a racist slur.
| 502 |
solomonpanting Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:57:43pm |
re: #493 Charles
A conservative mailing list I've been trying to get unsubscribed from (they won't seem to let me go) is now circulating photos of a black man with his pants around his ankles.
Was the photo suggesting more than someone getting caught with his pants down?
| 503 |
tradewind Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:58:17pm |
re: #493 Charles
WTF??
Better make that ' a hate mongering list ' because that is just pretty awful.
| 504 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:59:21pm |
re: #503 tradewind
WTF??
Better make that ' a hate mongering list ' because that is just pretty awful.
The person who posted that email to the list is also a Nirther, and has posted lots of Obama=Hitler pictures as well. She's the main reason I've been trying to unsubscribe.
| 505 |
LTC8K6 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:59:57pm |
Being a truther was the least of Van Jones' problems, imo.
You can throw that out entirely and he still has to resign, imo.
Using that as the basis for arguing that others should resign just means that you know little about Jones, imo.
| 506 |
Andrew X Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:00:13am |
Y'know, if you google "Bush+chimp" you get 1,070,000 hits. (It was at 2 million about six months ago.
I'm just sayin'.
| 507 |
Dan G. Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:01:14am |
re: #487 peppermintboy
"surrender monkey" is an old term around here, and as far as I know not racist... The first time I saw it was someone showing disdain for the French, calling them "cheese eating surrender monkeys" or something like that.
| 508 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:02:29am |
re: #487 peppermintboy
#127 "...Obama is a surrender monkey..."
Maybe because I'm black i guess i could be over reacting and it is OK to call the president a monkey now?
I'm NOT a fan of Obama. But i don't see any need to call him a monkey either.
Thank you in advance.
Please let me seriously apologize. No insult meant to black people. I am so very sorry.
| 509 |
tradewind Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:03:07am |
re: #504 Charles
Some times hitting the ' unsubscribe ' button keeps you signed up, I have heard. Maybe just block them?
/On the other hand, even the thought of me telling you anything about the internet is pretty hilarious.../
| 510 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:04:30am |
re: #500 Charles
I'm pretty sure there was no racist intent there. "Surrender monkey" is a generic term for someone who easily capitulates to pressure, not a racist slur.
Agreed! But look at the trouble Allen got in to in Virginia when he used "macaca" (macaque). Best to be careful.
| 511 |
Andrew X Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:04:52am |
Dan - Come come now. That "someone" was Groundskeeper Willie on 'The Simpsons'!
Every American should know that! :-)
(And it is best said with a Sco' ish broog.)
| 512 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:05:08am |
On the other hand, two people have lost their accounts in this thread for posting blatantly racist comments.
There's a really strong undercurrent of racism going on in this issue if people feel so emboldened by the resignation that they'll post racist slurs at LGF, knowing full well it's going to get them banned.
| 513 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:08:50am |
re: #512 Charles
On the other hand, two people have lost their accounts in this thread for posting blatantly racist comments.
There's a really strong undercurrent of racism going on in this issue if people feel so emboldened by the resignation that they'll post racist slurs at LGF, knowing full well it's going to get them banned.
Just curious but were they socks of existing posters or socks for previously banned/flounced Lizards, and can you tell the difference?
I just ask because I find that it is odd that someone would maintain an account just to use the nuclear option. I guess I just don't hang out on boards enough to know the minutiae.
| 514 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:10:16am |
To be honest, I was brought up in the sort of household that never insulted anyone's race. I never knew that monkey was something that got used for insulting black people until I was in college, and it just didn't even cross my mind. However, I really should have been more sensitive. Again, sincere apologies.
| 515 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:13:26am |
re: #514 LudwigVanQuixote
To be honest, I was brought up in the sort of household that never insulted anyone's race. I never knew that monkey was something that got used for insulting black people until I was in college, and it just didn't even cross my mind. However, I really should have been more sensitive. Again, sincere apologies.
Hey, it wasn't intentional. You've made a heart felt mea culpa. Well played.
By the way, have you read any of Rudy Rucker's string theory science fiction? Great stuff.
| 516 |
Chekote Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:13:39am |
re: #445 zombie
Interesting. I just wish his attitudes towards Israel were at the center of the controversy. That would have helped the GOP. Instead, he left because of petition and his green jobs agenda. At least that's the appearance.
| 517 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:15:59am |
re: #493 Charles
A conservative mailing list I've been trying to get unsubscribed from (they won't seem to let me go) is now circulating photos of a black man with his pants around his ankles.
I sometimes get pictures like that, but they usually promise that I can improve my physical endowment by sending them $39.99.
| 518 |
dsun Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:16:01am |
VJ resigning doesn't mean much, it's just a facade, Obama has a pattern of being around guys like VJ, Ayers, Wright, and what else, do you think VJ resignation is really a results of his beliefs ? certainly not, Obama just doesn't want too much attention that's all.
| 519 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:16:26am |
re: #515 austin_blue
Hey, it wasn't intentional. You've made a heart felt mea culpa. Well played.
By the way, have you read any of Rudy Rucker's string theory science fiction? Great stuff.
I'll have to check it out. I think I might have seen a short story of his, but I ma not certain.
| 520 |
Silvergirl Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:17:32am |
re: #487 peppermintboy
Peppermintboy, you haven't posted much in almost a year. Would you like to introduce yourself?
| 521 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:19:53am |
re: #519 ludwigvanquixote
I'll have to check it out. I think I might have seen a short story of his, but I ma not certain.
Theoretical mathematician and one of the most committed uber-geeks I have ever met, but a hoot.
Here:
[Link: www.cs.sjsu.edu...]
| 522 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:21:43am |
re: #518 dsun
VJ resigning doesn't mean much, it's just a facade, Obama has a pattern of being around guys like VJ, Ayers, Wright, and what else, do you think VJ resignation is really a results of his beliefs ? certainly not, Obama just doesn't want too much attention that's all.
A facade for what?
| 523 |
zombie Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:25:43am |
re: #521 austin_blue
Theoretical mathematician and one of the most committed uber-geeks I have ever met, but a hoot.
Here:
[Link: www.cs.sjsu.edu...]
As I think I mentioned here once, I too have a "past" with Rudy Rucker, but it's quite the opposite of your experience: I found him to be very unpleasant (narcissistic I think is the right word) and he ended up yelling at me for basically no reason.
I didn't realize at the time that he was semi-famous (though this was before he is as famous as he is now), but I walked away from the incident thinking, "What a creep...".
However, I have never read a word of his fiction, so I can't comment on that.
| 524 |
dsun Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:31:10am |
re: #522 austin_blue
well to make you think that obama doesn't share VJ's belief, same thing we were told with wright... it's either that or obama is one of the most hypocritical politician to ever bless this earth.
| 525 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:32:35am |
re: #523 zombie
As I think I mentioned here once, I too have a "past" with Rudy Rucker, but it's quite the opposite of your experience: I found him to be very unpleasant (narcissistic I think is the right word) and he ended up yelling at me for basically no reason.
I didn't realize at the time that he was semi-famous (though this was before he is as famous as he is now), but I walked away from the incident thinking, "What a creep...".
However, I have never read a word of his fiction, so I can't comment on that.
Like I said an uber-geek. A social zit. Possibly a large brush of Asperger's. He's a very difficult human to be around.
| 526 |
borgcube Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:37:16am |
re: #476 Slumbering Behemoth
No biggie. I saw that I kinda sorta hit a sensitive area there. Didn't mean to do that. And yes, I'm well aware of GWB and his credentials. I'm an equal opportunity Yale critic as I was not fond of Bush for the most part, particularly in his second term.
Look, I want the best and brightest in our positions of leadership. I'm just not sure that the continual draw from the same places is working out so well nowadays. And c'mon, when legislation is routinely coming out of Congress that weighs more than ten lbs. in one printing and no one can make heads or tails of it including the people who wrote it, I think it's safe to say we can thank the over abundance of attorneys in that cesspool on Capitol Hill.
I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I believe that over 50% are lawyers in the Senate. Recipe for disaster.
| 527 |
Sharmuta Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:42:54am |
re: #526 borgcube
I wouldn't say lawyers are the problem so much as there is a lack of statesmen.
| 528 |
freedomplow Sun, Sep 6, 2009 12:59:58am |
re: #56 Charles
Agreed. This process was rotten to the core, and the cave-in is only going to encourage the Beck crowd.
This is about Beck? WTF?
| 530 |
freedomplow Sun, Sep 6, 2009 1:13:58am |
| 531 |
bemused Sun, Sep 6, 2009 1:20:45am |
Agreed, the manner in which politcis is conducted in this city has hit bottom and has dug deeper. But I am surprised at the outrage and what seems to be very short-term memeory. I see it as a mirro image of politics as practiced by 'the other siode' from 2000 to 2008. IOW, those who are 'in' are facing a mirror image of themselves now.
Second, after what has been revealed about this person's public statements, which are a wiindow into his private thoghts, he no more deserves a position of power than would Senator Theodore G. Bilbo, if ressurected and in charge.
Last, that this person was, and without vetting by Congress placed into a postion of power shows a lack of regard for the system of checks and balances, and judgement.
| 532 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Sep 6, 2009 1:21:56am |
re: #530 freedomplow
I read more than the headlines. Thanks (for the) tool.
Yeah, because the last "T" in RTFT stands for "headlines".
I have a better understanding of your 528 now. A reading comprehension FAIL on your part.
| 533 |
BlackFedora Sun, Sep 6, 2009 1:28:02am |
Well... good riddance. Unfortunately his departure will not shut up the fringe far right wing elements poisoning the national discourse.
| 534 |
Mike Nargizian Sun, Sep 6, 2009 1:30:28am |
re: #475 Charles
One thing is guaranteed -- this little episode is definitely not going to improve the standing of the GOP or conservatives in the African American community. It had the distinct odor of a lynch mob about it.
We're going to see some serious anger in response.
Are you saying he's getting booted out now because of "race"?
Are you kidding me?
This is typical "politics by emotionalism" as usual in Washington as we've seen many times in the past... the fact that he's black and there are some people that resort to racism in highly charged times and issues doesn't make this purely a racial thing, or the reason why he was forced to resign.
It is a "mob" and this "lynch mob" mentality has done in people from both sides in the past for a reason or reasons which weren't necessarily so.
And I don't think the Truther thing was the main reason why Obama team decided it was too much to keep him on... the other Youtube videos and other stuff which could come out in the future made it too costly... that's ugly Washington politics.
The gathering "mob" is a thing that goes on in Washington, the media and many places... Its been happening for a long time and race here was not "the issue" or even a significant factor in my opinion...
Nonetheless, as usual and history bares out, some people's racism and always comes to the fore in situations like this... and some people mildly racist resort to over the top slurs and emotionalism as well. As you very well know... and have pointed out.
| 535 |
freedomplow Sun, Sep 6, 2009 1:32:51am |
re: #532 Slumbering Behemoth
Yeah, because the last "T" in RTFT stands for "headlines".
I have a better understanding of your 528 now. A reading comprehension FAIL on your part.
Call me stupid. That always works. Never went out of my way to imply you were stupid.
Have at it. Click your heels together and wish he is stupid...
After a few years you might grow-up.
| 536 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Sep 6, 2009 1:37:49am |
re: #535 freedomplow
"T" for "Headlines". You fill in the blanks.
I don't have to call you anything. You do fine by yourself.
| 539 |
freedomplow Sun, Sep 6, 2009 1:55:40am |
re: #536 Slumbering Behemoth
"T" for "Headlines". You fill in the blanks.
I don't have to call you anything. You do fine by yourself.
Is that it? I could get all crazy on your ass. Its not worth it.
Take care and don't get all irate on the internet.
Life is too short and we probably would have a good time hanging out.
Unless your against that stuff.
| 540 |
moriarity Sun, Sep 6, 2009 1:55:58am |
Valerie Jarret, B.O.'s senior advisor sought this twit Jones out and praised him to high heaven. I fail to see her name mentioned anywhere however linking her to this appointment. Jones is merely the symptom and not the disease!
| 541 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Sep 6, 2009 2:03:14am |
re: #539 freedomplow
Is that it? I could get all crazy on your ass.
Go for it. I bet it would be amusing as all hell.
| 544 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 6, 2009 3:30:54am |
re: #345 Charles
I strongly suspect this wasn't Obama caving in, but Van Jones getting out, both to save Obama any further negative publicity, and because it just doesn't make sense to put up with the insanity. It was only going to get worse.
Unfortunately, it will certainly get worse now. I see already, right in this thread, posters delighting over his resignation because the Troofer claims must have been true. Those doing the accusing are encouraged, they think this sort of mindless, irrational bellowing works, and we will see much, much more of it in the future.
Prepare for a tsunami of fraudulent character assassination to pour forth from the Right.
| 545 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 6, 2009 3:32:19am |
re: #132 Charles
Go ahead and party, folks. I won't be joining you.
I'm not going to miss Van Jones one bit. But the precedent this sets is a real nightmare.
I couldn't agree more.
| 546 |
Wendya Sun, Sep 6, 2009 4:03:29am |
re: #483 austin_blue
The real problem is that the moderates and Independents are going to get truly disgusted with the serial witch hunt that will surely follow this resignation.
It shouldn't have taken 6 months and a rabble-rouser like Beck to shine the light on Jones. Leaving out the truther nonsense, there were enough verifiable facts about him to disgust the average moderate and independent. The media has abdicated its responsibility and left a void for talk show hosts to fill. That's not a good thing.
| 547 |
So What Sun, Sep 6, 2009 4:08:02am |
Could we expect an aduit of OUR 30 billion? If he addmitted he had not created one job, I would think that it needs to performed.Does Acorn have a "green" divison?
| 548 |
flyovercountry Sun, Sep 6, 2009 4:08:07am |
No tears here. Just a weary disgust at what’s become of politics in America.
It became about getting and keeping the power long ago. There are no longer core principles, or even guiding beliefs any more to give us a direction. Every time I get suckered in by the GOP, somebody panders to today's popululist topic or brings up, "creation science." I used to believe that we needed a third party for sane people, but I am nowhere near certain that the same thing would not happen there. We need a good leader again. Just remember though, as Charles Krauthammer once adeptly put it, even Reagan was not the Reagan we remember.
| 549 |
flyovercountry Sun, Sep 6, 2009 4:15:06am |
re: #544 SixDegrees
Unfortunately, it will certainly get worse now. I see already, right in this thread, posters delighting over his resignation because the Troofer claims must have been true. Those doing the accusing are encouraged, they think this sort of mindless, irrational bellowing works, and we will see much, much more of it in the future.
Prepare for a tsunami of fraudulent character assassination to pour forth from the Right.
Unfortunately, this mindless bellowing has been shown to be effective. The Bush Administration had to endure it for eight solid years. It cripled the efficacy of his Presidency, and ultimately caused a shift in the balance of control in Washington. No, that doesn't make it the right thing to do for the GOP, but like any power hungry politician, they are great joiner inners when something works. Just like the fraudulent character assasination pouring in from the Left for eight solid years, we are going to get the same crap from the Right.
| 550 |
Salamantis Sun, Sep 6, 2009 4:16:12am |
One major incongruity in Van Jones' history was his admission that he became a Communist (in the '90's, yet!) as a result of the Rodney King verdict, of all things. For someone to change their economic system allegiance as a result of a criminal trial verdict is a political non sequiter of vast and massive proportions
| 551 |
auldtrafford Sun, Sep 6, 2009 4:31:19am |
re: #544 SixDegrees
Unfortunately, it will certainly get worse now. I see already, right in this thread, posters delighting over his resignation because the Troofer claims must have been true. Those doing the accusing are encouraged, they think this sort of mindless, irrational bellowing works, and we will see much, much more of it in the future.
Prepare for a tsunami of fraudulent character assassination to pour forth from the Right.
The Rahm-BO team has shown itself highly competent to appoint incompetent/corrupt people to high office - and to stand by them with mafioso-type loyalty. Tim Geithner, Valerie Jarrett (for many, many more see Michelle Malkin's highly researched Culture of Corruption). No, when one of their bunch hits the bricks, it is for cause.
The reason this issue is important is that this guy was either appointed with full knowledge of his background - or with a horrendous failure to vet. I go with the former, but either way - what does that say about the judgment of our leadership? Or is that not a fair issue?
| 552 |
JohnH Sun, Sep 6, 2009 4:32:20am |
This guy was fully vetted by the White House, they knew exactly what they were getting.
Someone said it below: this is symptomatic of the politics of the people in charge.
| 554 |
ukuleledave Sun, Sep 6, 2009 5:08:16am |
Charles,
You might be right about the Troofer business. On the other hand, this isn't an example of the sad state of politics...just an example of the sad state of political choices at 1600 Penn. Ave.
| 556 |
Greengolem64 Sun, Sep 6, 2009 5:26:24am |
re: #171 LudwigVanQuixote
No. You are a fool. Beck, lied about a presidential advisor in a smear campaign and got the resident to cave. The President now will face even more of the same.
That is the problem.
If you make politics such that you don't even need to be close to the truth, merely scream loudly enough, you destroy the system.
That is the problem.
ANY POTUS, from any party, who succumbs to stuff like this is a bad sign. It cheapens the presidency and erodes the system.
Well, how about a little hypocrisy served up warm.
Interesting that not that long ago there were lots of folks saying "hey, politics is rough and tumble and you'd better be able to 'take the punches'...and things like that".
As others have pointed out SENATOR Trent Lott was forced out for comments made at a Birthday celebration for Strom Thurmond. This was a duly elected Senator of the United States...
Now you have a Political appointee, not even in the same class, being drummed out by (Beck, Youtube, etc..) and people are upset? Seems like politics as usual to me.
GG
| 557 |
Greengolem64 Sun, Sep 6, 2009 5:28:49am |
re: #556 Greengolem64
Would be better if I had my first cup of coffee before writing :)
Duly elected Senator should be Duly elected Congressman and Speaker of the House
GG
| 558 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Sep 6, 2009 5:40:38am |
If you think it's bad now, just wait until Republicans lose big (or don't win big 'enough') in 2010.
Mark my words: most of the GOP candidates in 2010 are going to run on a platform crafted to appeal directly to the barking town hall yellin' birther goon squad. To the surprise of nobody except themselves, it won't work, and of course it will all be because of the 'liberal media' and Obama's super-secret ACORN election fraud agents under every mattress.
| 559 |
bemused Sun, Sep 6, 2009 5:52:06am |
re: #554 ukuleledave
No, its a sad state of the political choice made by the American electorate, who I feel, did as with President Ford by somehow 'getting back at Nixon', voted for an incompetent, also voted for the current (and hopefully short-term) occupant of the WH simply because they wanted to 'get back' at George Bush.
| 560 |
Greengolem64 Sun, Sep 6, 2009 5:57:27am |
re: #559 bemused
No, its a sad state of the political choice made by the American electorate, who I feel, did as with President Ford by somehow 'getting back at Nixon', voted for an incompetent, also voted for the current (and hopefully short-term) occupant of the WH simply because they wanted to 'get back' at George Bush.
Ford wasn't "elected" president. He got the position by default when Nixon resigned...
Now, if you mean...voted for Carter... :) :)
GG
| 561 |
bemused Sun, Sep 6, 2009 6:03:05am |
re: #560 Greengolem64
That is true but he did run of a term of his own and his opponent in that elect was... that best forgetten occupant of the WH. It it is in that context, that somehow wiith the pardon of Nixon, the electorate and MSM felt deproved of their 'pound of flesh', then wanted to 'get back' by voting in... Thus I see the same in this last election.
| 562 |
Code Red 21 Sun, Sep 6, 2009 6:04:20am |
re: #560 Greengolem64
Ford wasn't "elected" president. He got the position by default when Nixon resigned...
Now, if you mean...voted for Carter... :) :)
GG
Ford ran against Carter and lost so people did vote against Ford to get back at Nixon
| 565 |
Pupdawg Sun, Sep 6, 2009 6:35:07am |
re: #17 pat
Only 31 more Czars' laundry to wonder thru. If the Senate won't do it , the public will. This administration is a disgrace.
Amen to that, Pat!
The Czars should not only be fertile ground for some Fall plowing, they should be run out of Washington on a rail...tar and feathers also come to mind here.
Lest we forget, this is yet another example of a 'chosen one' of and by Obama who continues to use the 'I didn't know' defense when cornered. He evidently surrounds himself with people he pays no attention to or something. For a supposed intelligent fellow, this president exudes the complete opposite as he waxes more and more idiotic by the hour...check that...by the hour.
| 566 |
Baldy Sun, Sep 6, 2009 6:37:59am |
The frikkin day after 9/11, he was condemning the US. He is scum.
Emergency Action Against Racism and War (Oakland)
by gkt
Thursday Sep 13th, 2001 2:38 AM
One summary of tonight's rally in oaklandCommunity Gathers in Oakland to Mourn and Organize Against Racist Violence Committed by US Government
Oakland, CA (September 13) - Hundreds of people gathered at Snow Park in Oakland tonight to mourn, provide support for each other, and speak out against violent United States policies at home and abroad, which they say are the underlying reasons for unprecedented terrorist attacks in New York City and Washington DC. Organizing against a growing climate of racism, nationalism and anti-Arab bigotry was a focus of the rally....A recurring theme of the speakers was the brutal violence committed by or supported by the United States government on a daily basis. "The bombs the government drops in Iraq are the bombs that blew up in New York City," said Van Jones, director of the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights, who also warned against forthcoming violence by the Bush Administration. "The US cannot bomb its way out of this one. Safety at home requires justice abroad."
| 567 |
JPL17 Sun, Sep 6, 2009 6:58:42am |
re: #5 Sharmuta
The bus over runneth.
Took me a few seconds to get that one. Very funny. Clever syntax, too.
| 570 |
badtemper Sun, Sep 6, 2009 7:16:32am |
Good riddance. That immature clown had no business being in charge of anything in the US Government, let alone being affiliated to the office of the President.
| 571 |
grahamski Sun, Sep 6, 2009 7:21:05am |
GOOD!...Don't let the door hit you in the ass you piece of filth.
| 572 |
looking closely Sun, Sep 6, 2009 7:29:50am |
No tears here. Just a weary disgust at what’s become of politics in America.
Well, I agree this episode with Van Jones was disgusting.
Here we have a self-proclaimed Communist, participant in the "Truther" movement, supporter of cop-killer Mumia abu-Jamal; appointed by Obama as a Presidential "czar" with no oversight.
The problem here wasn't that a light was shined on this cockroach and Obama was forced to throw him under the bus along the rest of his belatedly-exposed hateful Marxist-lefty friends (EG Reverend Wright, Samantha Powers, etc).
The problem here is that the guy wasn't vetted at all, nor does Obama seem to have any problem putting people with radical Marxist credentials like Van Jones in his administration.
Had Obama done the right thing up front, Van Jones never would have needed to be tossed under the bus, because he wouldn't have been appointed to begin with.
And not incidentally, no, I believe for a second Van Jones voluntarily "resigned". . He was ASKED to resign (eg, fired).
| 573 |
grahamski Sun, Sep 6, 2009 7:34:00am |
re: #39 Sharmuta
Because under obama these uncontrolled, un-vetted advisers that are accountable to no one, elected by no one, and are outside the "advise and consent" power of the Senate are multiplying at an alarming rate...and now, one is exposed as an admitted communist / black nationalist.
It's out of control, and we need to put a stop to it.
| 574 |
Salamantis Sun, Sep 6, 2009 7:35:32am |
re: #566 Baldy
The frikkin day after 9/11, he was condemning the US. He is scum.
Emergency Action Against Racism and War (Oakland)
by gkt
Thursday Sep 13th, 2001 2:38 AM
One summary of tonight's rally in oakland
Community Gathers in Oakland to Mourn and Organize Against Racist Violence Committed by US Government
Oakland, CA (September 13) - Hundreds of people gathered at Snow Park in Oakland tonight to mourn, provide support for each other, and speak out against violent United States policies at home and abroad, which they say are the underlying reasons for unprecedented terrorist attacks in New York City and Washington DC. Organizing against a growing climate of racism, nationalism and anti-Arab bigotry was a focus of the rally....A recurring theme of the speakers was the brutal violence committed by or supported by the United States government on a daily basis. "The bombs the government drops in Iraq are the bombs that blew up in New York City," said Van Jones, director of the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights, who also warned against forthcoming violence by the Bush Administration. "The US cannot bomb its way out of this one. Safety at home requires justice abroad."
Indymedia 9/13/01
And this from a guy who reportedly carries speeches by Winston Churchill around on his iPod:
[Link: www.newyorker.com...]
Wow; that's real Churchillian of him!
/Ward>/i> Churchillian, that is...
| 575 |
grahamski Sun, Sep 6, 2009 7:36:10am |
re: #572 looking closely
Obama was forced to throw him under the bus along the rest of his belatedly-exposed hateful Marxist-lefty friends (EG Reverend Wright, Samantha Powers, etc).(eg, fired).
Don't forget grandma, he threw her under that same bus...
| 576 |
Sharmuta Sun, Sep 6, 2009 7:37:08am |
re: #573 grahamski
No- why is everyone up in arms over the term "czar". We've had them for decades, but everyone seems to think the term is somehow new.
| 577 |
grahamski Sun, Sep 6, 2009 7:42:49am |
re: #81 teleskiguy
Good point. Maybe I'm just a little skittish because of 0bama's socialist leanings, I'm engaging in some cognitive dissonance by trying to make the word "czar" look bad. But you are right, the title of czar has been used in this country for a long time.
Czar means King...The media started calling these appointments czars back in the Regan administration...Of course Ronnie did not pick any America hating communist racists to be one of his "czars".
| 578 |
Code Red 21 Sun, Sep 6, 2009 7:43:48am |
re: #576 Sharmuta
No- why is everyone up in arms over the term "czar". We've had them for decades, but everyone seems to think the term is somehow new.
You're right we have had them for a long time and the practice of appointing them by either party needs to come to an end. All appointments should be vetted through congress when they impact our lives.
| 579 |
grahamski Sun, Sep 6, 2009 7:44:10am |
re: #576 Sharmuta
No- why is everyone up in arms over the term "czar". We've had them for decades, but everyone seems to think the term is somehow new.
I guess because they relate the word to the old Soviet Union...
| 580 |
Sharmuta Sun, Sep 6, 2009 7:47:28am |
re: #564 Brees
Those of you that doubt Glenn...do you still think the same?
Yes- I still think he's insane. The man thinks Isaiah 2:4 is communist propaganda.
| 581 |
grahamski Sun, Sep 6, 2009 7:53:04am |
re: #171 LudwigVanQuixote
No. You are a fool. Beck, lied about a presidential advisor in a smear campaign and got the resident to cave.
Beck did no such thing, he exposed the man with his own words.
And I see that after being on vacation for a month, the name calling continues at LGF, wonderful.
| 582 |
right_on_target Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:00:25am |
re: #527 Sharmuta
I wouldn't say lawyers are the problem so much as there is a lack of statesmen.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
What percentage of Congress are lawyers? They serve themselves.
Power <=> Money
| 584 |
Sharmuta Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:01:35am |
re: #578 Code Red 21
That's not my point. Why is it so many people are freaking out over the term. Not the position, the vetting- just the word itself. I'm seeing it constantly.
| 585 |
Sharmuta Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:03:18am |
re: #583 Mike from NY
I can't understand why some Lizards are against Glenn Beck./blockquote>
Because he's insane and pushing Birch Society craziness.
| 586 |
Salamantis Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:12:34am |
The Birchers, racists, antisemites, and conspiracy theorists are back with a vengeance - and their membership rosters overlap...
There has never been a time when we needed Bill Buckley more - and all we've got is wussy weathervane George Will advising us to bug out of Afghanistan...
| 588 |
zeir Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:14:19am |
The reality is emerging that under the cold light of scrutiny there were a lot of reasons Van Jones was going to be a liability. So he got dropped and, pax zombie, good riddance. An environmental "czar" has to be a credible unifier who can engage different elements of the country, not a fey leftist from the Bay area who never saw a petition of a podium that he didn't want a part of.
| 589 |
Flyers1974 Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:20:47am |
re: #584 Sharmuta
That's not my point. Why is it so many people are freaking out over the term. Not the position, the vetting- just the word itself. I'm seeing it constantly.
Because Russia had both Czars and communism and Obama has "Czars," perhaps these people have concluded that this is further proof that Obama is a communist.
| 591 |
Sharmuta Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:25:38am |
re: #587 Mike from NY
Did you see his rant about Rockefeller Center? Outstanding research? He didn't do any research on that Rockefeller bit AT ALL!
| 593 |
jaunte Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:26:21am |
re: #585 Sharmuta
Are You Now or Have You Ever Been a Member of a Liberal Cell?
| 594 |
Salamantis Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:28:15am |
I'm a domestic social liberal, a fiscal conservative, and a foreign policy democracy-spreading hawk.
Wanna make something of it?
| 596 |
akalivas Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:30:54am |
re: #475 Charles
One thing is guaranteed -- this little episode is definitely not going to improve the standing of the GOP or conservatives in the African American community. It had the distinct odor of a lynch mob about it.
We're going to see some serious anger in response.
That may be so but it would be unfortunate because the criticisms of Van Jones weren't race based. Many of Van Jones' criticisms, however were.
Also, I wouldn't associate the likes of Krauthammer, Victor David Hanson, and Bob Beckel - who all chimed in on this episode - with the stench of a lynch mob.
| 597 |
Sharmuta Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:31:30am |
re: #595 Mike from NY
Not when they're attached to BIRCHERS! Would you call Buckley a liberal because he opposed the Birchers?
| 598 |
Salamantis Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:32:12am |
re: #595 Mike from NY
OK, I take that back. But we conservatives need to support the few media people who can galvanize the independents to defeat the socialists now in power. Since Glenn Beck is gaining many people to our cause, and is getting results, can't you cut him some slack?
Not when he embraces Birchers, Nirthers, 'educational' creationists and conspiracy theorists. With people like him as our de facto spokespeople, we can't help but lose - and deserve to.
| 599 |
jaunte Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:36:29am |
re: #595 Mike from NY
OK, I take that back. But we conservatives need to support the few media people who can galvanize the independents to defeat the socialists now in power. Since Glenn Beck is gaining many people to our cause, and is getting results, can't you cut him some slack?
The bolded statements are open to debate, and the "results" are not all in yet.
| 601 |
akalivas Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:37:31am |
re: #596 akalivas
Clarification: You didn't associate Krauthammer, Hanson and Beckel with a lynch mob. But if a=b and b=c, then a=c
| 602 |
Sharmuta Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:37:52am |
re: #600 Mike from NY
My top priority is to hope that Barry and his socialist leftist regime is out of power asap in the next election. Those who aid that cause (Rush, Laura Ingraham, Michele Malkin, Hannity, Mark Levin, and others (including Glenn Beck) have my support.
Great- what do you think about these folks when they're promoting events held by troofers?
| 604 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:43:14am |
re: #601 akalivas
Clarification: You didn't associate Krauthammer, Hanson and Beckel with a lynch mob. But if a=b and b=c, then a=c
Thats right. I didn't. And your "logic" is completely ridiculous.
| 605 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:43:47am |
re: #603 Mike from NY
I care about results. If Barry unfortunately gets reelected, the country and our freedoms are lost. Get over Beck!! Every media success that helps prevent the full leftist takeover is to be supported. If Beck's considerable influence can help, I'll support what he DOES.
You go support Glenn Beck somewhere else.
| 606 |
RoyalCanadian Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:43:47am |
The Van Jones announcement unleashed a bit of cautious anticipatory optimism for non-American observers who wish the best for the USA. It isn't about the minor problems created by the close personal friends Mr. Obama respected and supported such as Billy "boom-boom" Ayers. It isn't about the minor problems created by associates and colleagues that Mr. Obama listened to but did not actually hear for a couple of decades such as Van Jones or Revenomed Wright. It’s the look on reporters’ faces when you can tell they are beginning to understand they were “played” by Obama. In financial indiscretions alone, compared to Obama, Madoff was an amateur. The giant sleeps. The giant wakes up. Watch out.
| 607 |
Simple Voice Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:54:50am |
"...weary disgust at what’s become of politics in America."
Interesting comment.
Politics in America has always been a disgusting practice. The mean-spiritedness and disingenuous that is around today has always been present.
I think the thing that makes today's political swamp hard to stomach is the 24 hour news cycle. Never before in the history of mankind have we had such easy access to the pornographic fetish called :
American Politics.
| 609 |
Flyovercountry Sun, Sep 6, 2009 9:07:13am |
re: #598 Salamantis
Not when he embraces Birchers, Nirthers, 'educational' creationists and conspiracy theorists. With people like him as our de facto spokespeople, we can't help but lose - and deserve to.
I couldn't have said this better myself. I don't know if people have the perspective of the Reagan Revolution, or even the GOP success of 1994, but those victories were based on winning in the arena of ideas. These current victories, are hollow, and will be short lived. People in general will only remain duped for a short time. What seem like victories today, will ultimately lead to another drubbing at a later date. I don't want to see Beck, Palin, Paul, Buchanan, or any other fear mongering populist lead the conservative movement. We need to get back to our core beliefs.
| 610 |
pyrodoctor Sun, Sep 6, 2009 9:11:22am |
I say good riddance to bad rubbish. If Obama is not going to fill the political appointments that he is supposed to in lieu of a bunch of "czars" then it shouldn't be a surprise to him that they get their "confirmation hearings" on Talk Radio and Cable News.
| 612 |
williwonka Sun, Sep 6, 2009 9:13:31am |
re: #580 Sharmuta
As a U.S. grade school student, around 1944, we sang the Volga Boat Man.
Was that Communist propaganda?
Beautiful things can be used to shape support for ugly systems. Even more so when there is agreement on the goal of ending war forever or defeating the Nazis.
The best propaganda is that, which can be proved logically to not be propaganda.
Any that insist that it is can be painted as nuts. Since some of them will be
nuts, all of the critics will be suspect.
| 614 |
williwonka Sun, Sep 6, 2009 9:21:19am |
re: #531 bemused
Thanks, this seems to be the real problem.
"Last, that this person was, and without vetting by Congress placed into a position of power shows a lack of regard for the system of checks and balances, and judgment."
The taxpayers pay for these advisers and the creation of Czars appears to be a way around congressional oversight.
| 615 |
MacDuff Sun, Sep 6, 2009 9:23:49am |
czar (zär, tsär)
n.
1. also tsar or tzar (zär, tsär) A male monarch or emperor, especially one of the emperors who ruled Russia until the revolution of 1917.
2. A person having great power; an autocrat: "the square-jawed, ruddy complacency of Jack Farrell, the czar of the Fifteenth Street police station" (Ernest Hemingway).
3. Informal An appointed official having special powers to regulate or supervise an activity: a racetrack czar; an energy czar.
Obama certainly isn't the first president to use this title, so I won't hang it completely on him. That said, I never did like it as it's just not an appropriate term to use in a democratic society.
We don't need no stinkin' czars; we need public sevants who are ever cognizant of whom they serve.
| 616 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Sep 6, 2009 9:23:57am |
re: #614 williwonka
Thanks, this seems to be the real problem.
"Last, that this person was, and without vetting by Congress placed into a position of power shows a lack of regard for the system of checks and balances, and judgment."
The taxpayers pay for these advisers and the creation of Czars appears to be a way around congressional oversight.
Are you aware that "czars" did not start with Barack Obama? Do you know this has been completely standard practice for presidents for decades?
| 617 |
peppermintboy Sun, Sep 6, 2009 9:35:10am |
re: #508 LudwigVanQuixote
dude. Don't be sorry. I have seen the responses and according to most ppl it is an acceptable thing to say. The next time my heart will say "WTF!!!???", my head will say "relax, nothing to see here, move on".
Heureusement que l'explication de l'origine de cette expression me rassure et permet de me sentir aussi a l'aise qu'un singe de montagne entrain de se goinfrer de fromage de chèvre, un verre de monbazillac au bout de sa queue préhensile, sous une couette douillette, dans son chalet en Haute-Savoie...
| 618 |
BryanS Sun, Sep 6, 2009 10:14:17am |
re: #616 Charles
True, but the original premise for the czars as I understand it was that for the example of the "war on drugs", the position did not neatly fit under current cabinet positions, so this position was created. I guess since they were used fairly infrequently, less attention was paid to whether it was appropriate.
However it sure looks like Obama is using czar positions to duplicate or otherwise replace the functions of cabinet members so that he does not have to vet far left policy advisers through the congress. The president has a lot of authority to run the executive branch as he sees fit, so he could certainly create these positions and he should have a lot of leeway given to him so he can run his branch as he sees fit. At some point, though, one has to wonder whether he is creating a substructure just below the cabinet level so as to obviate the need to ever have a cabinet in the first place. I don't think it's there yet, but I think it's a legitimate concern.
| 619 |
SGTTED Sun, Sep 6, 2009 10:22:20am |
re: #477 Andrew X
Bingo Andrew. Also, add in the anti-intellectualism actually promoted by Universities, such as black, womans, etc "studies" departments that are little more than cultural Marxism and leftwing political ideological propaganda centers that call people who disagree with their failed, bankrupt ideas "racistsexistbigothomophobes", and any reasonable person can understand the distrust that many ordinary people have for their claims to being "intellectuals" and therefor better than others and entitled to run our lives.
Remember that George Orwell said that some ideas are so stupid only an intellectual could beleive in them.
| 620 |
MacDuff Sun, Sep 6, 2009 10:33:44am |
re: #617 peppermintboy
Actually, "surrender monkey" really has nothing to do with black people; it refers to the French. I believe Jonah Goldberg coined (or at least popularized) the term "Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys" in reference to French foreign policy years ago.
It's something of an an extrapolation of the term "Flying Monkeys" (taken from "The Wizard of OZ") which Goldberg often used in his columns.
In short, the reference is not at all racial.
| 621 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Sep 6, 2009 10:40:35am |
re: #620 MacDuff
Actually, "surrender monkey" really has nothing to do with black people; it refers to the French. I believe Jonah Goldberg coined (or at least popularized) the term "Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys" in reference to French foreign policy years ago.
No ... it came from The Simpsons.
| 623 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:00:39am |
re: #233 zombie
Wow -- he resigned quickly -- much quicker than I thought. But I'm not surprised.
I vowed to take him down politically. To that end, I "seeded" several stories about him to various outlets. (In other words, I sent anonymous tips, with necessary details, about true extremely disturbing documented statements from Jones.)
Bullshit,
You know, any of this MIGHT have been credible...had you said anything at all about the stories in question, or the news organisations, or indeed even claimed you would do this.
That didn't happen.
You made allegations about 'seeing' Van Jones at truther gatherings. When asked to provide proof, you ran away claiming it would 'expose your cover'
I commented that if you did have damning info about Jones, nothing would stop you linking that info anonymously.
Silence from you.
Then when Jones resigns you resurface, claiming that it's because of sooper seekrit info about him that was just about to come out! And that you leaked to MSM outlets!
Nothing is stopping any of them from publishing that troofer info you claim to have. Faux News and other right wing outlets would LOVE to run with it, even if he's stepped down.
And nothing is stopping YOU from doing a 'report' on his sooper seekrit troofer associations-- the ones you claimed to know about.
I think Charles is right and this resignation was about sparing Obama grief and getting out of his way.
I think there were legitimate reasons to object to Jones, and they never got covered.
And I think you're completely pulling this out of your ass. Sorry, I will not believe your "I have here in my hand a list of 205 Commies! bullshit"
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