Obama’s Indoctrination of Innocent, Helpless Children Revealed

Politics • Views: 5,032

Here’s President Barack Obama’s speech to schoolchildren: Prepared School Remarks.

I’ve read the whole thing, looking for that sekrit socialism everyone is so sure must be hidden in there, and I just couldn’t find it. It seems to be a pretty good inspirational speech; work hard, stay in school, achieve your dreams, that kind of thing. Just like I predicted.

However … the operative word there is seems.

Because I’ve discovered something even more sinister and evil than any commie indoctrination. A plot so diabolical you may find it hard to believe.

Obama actually mentions Harry Potter in the speech.

I was utterly gobsmacked when I found this, buried under the charming platitudes, lurking like a trapdoor spider to ensnare the children of America.

Harry Freaking Potter!

Is the President of the United States a Satanist?!!

I don’t need to point out that this post is dripping with sarcasm, do I?

UPDATE at 9/7/09 12:36:10 pm:

Here’s the promo spot currently in heavy rotation on Fox News:

[A picture of Obama looking angry and pointing his finger…]

SUPERINTENDENT … in chief?

Obama calls on students to respond to his policies!

Is the president pushing a hidden agenda onto America’s youth?

[Picture of helpless, innocent wide-eyed kids…]

[Picture of Glenn Beck waving his hands around…]

Glenn UNCOVERS THE TRUTH!

Tuesday, “Indoctrinating Students” … only on Beck!

Jump to bottom

1029 comments
1 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:40:02am

His mom called him buster.

2 Ay, Caramba  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:40:31am

I just hope none of the students faint tomorrow

3 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:41:37am
Every single one of you has something you’re good at. Every single one of you has something to offer. And you have a responsibility to yourself to discover what that is. That’s the opportunity an education can provide.

That's just evil. ///

4 Gella  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:41:43am

well O probably thinks that Harry Potter is can become a good inspiration for children

5 affenkopf  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:41:53am
I hope I don’t need to point out that this post is dripping with sarcasm, do I?

This is the Internet, unfortunately you do.

6 brookly red  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:42:43am

re: #4 Gella

well O probably thinks that Harry Potter is can become a good inspiration for children

/or just name dropping :)

7 HelloDare  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:42:43am

Yeah, but try reading the speech backwards. It's evil, I tell you.

8 pat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:43:25am

I guess the speech is Ok if he mentions Harry Potter, otherwise I would fail him.

9 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:43:33am
And no matter what you want to do with your life – I guarantee that you’ll need an education to do it. You want to be a doctor, or a teacher, or a police officer? You want to be a nurse or an architect, a lawyer or a member of our military? You’re going to need a good education for every single one of those careers. You can’t drop out of school and just drop into a good job. You’ve got to work for it and train for it and learn for it.

Who does he think he is telling kids this?!1?

10 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:43:43am

Do kids in this generation know who Michael Jordan is?

11 alegrias  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:43:48am

I wasn't offended by "My Pet Goat" which President Bush was reading to small school children on September 11, 2001.

Reading is fundamental.

12 Gella  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:44:19am

re: #6 brookly red

/or just name dropping :)

well HP is a fairy tale creature, good example
and i am not sure if sarc tag is good here
but anyways ///

13 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:44:37am

re: #10 SanFranciscoZionist

Do kids in this generation know who Michael Jordan is?

He's some guy that missed thousands of shots.

14 SasquatchOnSteroids  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:44:40am

re: #1 debutaunt

His mom called him buster.

Of Course. She saw his economic plan for America years ahead of the rest of us.

15 mikey_dallas  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:44:49am

It was never the speech. It was the whole lesson plan built around it that was in the same vein as that insipid video...about supporting / serving the President's agenda - that was the issue.

16 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:45:32am

re: #11 alegrias

I wasn't offended by "My Pet Goat" which President Bush was reading to small school children on September 11, 2001.

Reading is fundamental.

I wonder what the author/illustrator of "My Pet Goat" thinks of the bizarre role in history the book ended up playing. I think Bin Laden even cited it in one of the videotapes.

17 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:45:33am
So today, I want to ask you, what’s your contribution going to be? What problems are you going to solve? What discoveries will you make? What will a president who comes here in twenty or fifty or one hundred years say about what all of you did for this country?

Agenda!!!

18 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:45:36am

for every kid who is pulled out of school for this speech i am going to read 3 harry potter books. booyah.

19 Bob Dillon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:46:04am

I have no problem with the speech in general.

I feel tho that it would have been better to link his metaphors with other individuals in U.S. history rather than himself.

20 alegrias  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:46:29am

Someone alert Mandy Manners, I just ran into the McCain campaign's 2000 and 2008 campaign manager, Rick Davis, at Whole Foods Market.

Remember, Whole Foods Market is NOT a union-controlled work shop, because Virginia is a Right To Work state.

21 DEZes  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:46:42am

re: #7 HelloDare

Yeah, but try reading the speech backwards. It's evil, I tell you.

Just wait till the sound track comes out.
//

22 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:47:01am

re: #15 mikey_dallas

It was never the speech. It was the whole lesson plan built around it that was in the same vein as that insipid video...about supporting / serving the President's agenda - that was the issue.

Um. I didn't like that part of the lesson plan because it was very vague - help the President do what?

But I never had the idea that the lesson plan was about "supporting/serving the President's agenda". That was not stated in the original lesson plan.

23 Ay, Caramba  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:47:13am

re: #16 SanFranciscoZionist

I wonder what the author/illustrator of "My Pet Goat" thinks of the bizarre role in history the book ended up playing. I think Bin Laden even cited it in one of the videotapes.

Bin laden probably thought it was a love story

24 Banner  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:47:28am

Duh, with all of the outcry he changed the speech. Really, he's not stupid, and while I doubt his speech would have been what the more extreme people think it was going to be, I'm sure if you got your hands on a draft from before the outcry, you would have thought parts of it improper.

25 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:47:51am

re: #19 Bobibutu

I have no problem with the speech in general.

I feel tho that it would have been better to link his metaphors with other individuals in U.S. history rather than himself.

Don't know who wrote it, so it's probably not his fault.

26 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:47:55am

re: #24 Banner

Duh, with all of the outcry he changed the speech. Really, he's not stupid, and while I doubt his speech would have been what the more extreme people think it was going to be, I'm sure if you got your hands on a draft from before the outcry, you would have thought parts of it improper.

In what way?

27 EndlessBob  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:48:15am

Sure, the speech is fine now, after the letter-writing "How can I help my Dear Leader President?" exercise was pointed out, objected to and removed.

28 Wendya  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:48:16am
But at the end of the day, we can have the most dedicated teachers, the most supportive parents, and the best schools in the world – and none of it will matter unless all of you fulfill your responsibilities. Unless you show up to those schools; pay attention to those teachers; listen to your parents, grandparents and other adults; and put in the hard work it takes to succeed.

I absolutely approve.

We live in an entitlement culture where kids are taught all about their "rights" but not about their responsibilities.

29 DonFla  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:48:17am

It's not the speech per se, it's the liberal pounding most children will receive after from their teachers.

30 Linden Arden  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:48:21am

Well, there is your out, fundies.

Harry Potter is a well known anti-Christian sorcerer!

(My crush on Elizabeth Montgomery of 'Bewitched' as a child nearly turned me into a communist)

31 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:48:54am

re: #25 debutaunt

Don't know who wrote it, so it's probably not his fault.

I'm sure he at least read a draft. I wouldn't mind more references to earlier presidents, or somethin'.

It's fine, though.

32 opnion  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:49:11am

re: #15 mikey_dallas

It was never the speech. It was the whole lesson plan built around it that was in the same vein as that insipid video...about supporting / serving the President's agenda - that was the issue.

Your exactly right & the rest is a canard. The teachers do not need Administration talking points, & I guess that now that is just optional, or to prepare posters with Obama quotations.
Of cousre there is nothing wrong with any president saying work hard & stay in school.

33 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:49:13am
I know that sometimes, you get the sense from TV that you can be rich and successful without any hard work -- that your ticket to success is through rapping or basketball or being a reality TV star, when chances are, you’re not going to be any of those things.

But the truth is, being successful is hard. You won’t love every subject you study. You won’t click with every teacher. Not every homework assignment will seem completely relevant to your life right this minute. And you won’t necessarily succeed at everything the first time you try.

I no fan of President Obama but BRAVO Mr. President.

34 alegrias  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:49:16am

re: #16 SanFranciscoZionist

I wonder what the author/illustrator of "My Pet Goat" thinks of the bizarre role in history the book ended up playing. I think Bin Laden even cited it in one of the videotapes.

* * * *
Yes, the Taliban doesn't believe in literacy programs.

Taliban believe educating girls is a crime.

Madrassas don't generally accept anything BUT indoctrination.

Perhaps "My HALAL Edible Goat" would find favor with Taliban educators.

35 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:49:27am

re: #27 EndlessBob

Sure, the speech is fine now, after the letter-writing "How can I help my Dear Leader President?" exercise was pointed out, objected to and removed.

Same exercise George Bush Sr. included in his speech?

36 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:50:14am

But he did use the word God.
That should count for something.

37 jones  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:50:15am

Harry Potter? That is lame. Is he going to eat McDonalds food too?

Overall, why is he making such a vapid speech? Pretty lame, Milhous.

38 opnion  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:50:24am

re: #19 Bobibutu

I have no problem with the speech in general.

I feel tho that it would have been better to link his metaphors with other individuals in U.S. history rather than himself.

It's all about him. He is like Muzak in an elevator, it is always there.

39 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:50:32am

So we can still object to the bad things we imagine might have been in the speech before but then were not in the actual speech. That's good!

40 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:50:44am

re: #29 DonFla

It's not the speech per se, it's the liberal pounding most children will receive after from their teachers.

Ah, yes, it's not the speech, it's my evil profession. Do I have to re-publish all my anecdotal field research about how totally unimpressed most teachers are with this event?

41 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:51:00am

re: #24 Banner

Duh, with all of the outcry he changed the speech. Really, he's not stupid, and while I doubt his speech would have been what the more extreme people think it was going to be, I'm sure if you got your hands on a draft from before the outcry, you would have thought parts of it improper.

There you go -- he changed it! He removed the socialism! It's all so clear! Why didn't I see it?

Three cheers to the right wing blogs for saving us from Obama!

42 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:51:06am

re: #29 DonFla

It's not the speech per se, it's the liberal pounding most children will receive after from their teachers.

oh heavens no, little jimmy is being exposed to different ideas

43 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:51:33am
Where you are right now doesn’t have to determine where you’ll end up. No one’s written your destiny for you. Here in America, you write your own destiny. You make your own future.

I'll set aside my snarkiness for a moment to say something important.

This is something that every child in this country should hear, because in this one segment- the history of America echos. Men and women from across the globe have come here and written their own destinies. They had children who went on to write their own destinies. And more come to our shores every day with this same hope- the promise of opportunity.

For those holding their children back from school so they can avoid this now apparently horrible message- shame on you. You spit on the men and women who define the American Dream, you spit on those who have defended the American Dream, and you rob your children of the opportunity to ponder this Dream tomorrow. It's about the most un-American thing I've seen in many years. Beyond disappointing.

44 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:51:41am

re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist

Ah, yes, it's not the speech, it's my evil profession. Do I have to re-publish all my anecdotal field research about how totally unimpressed most teachers are with this event?

How much time is it likely to take away from the normal school day?

45 Banner  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:51:45am

re: #26 SanFranciscoZionist

In the same way so many teachers and agencies are starting to push kids to tell their parents to conserve, recycle, and all the other green crap. And to report on their parents when they don't follow the rules. Remember the whole war on drugs 'out your parents for illegal drug use' push?

And while I doubt this was as extreme, look at the philosophy of Obama's friends and mentors. I'm sure there would have been things objectionable, lets face it, he really doesn't care for America very much, nor most of its people. He's said so repeatedly in his books, his speeches, and when he campaigned.

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:52:07am

re: #37 jones

Harry Potter? That is lame. Is he going to eat McDonalds food too?

Overall, why is he making such a vapid speech? Pretty lame, Milhous.

Harry Potter is not lame!

47 brookly red  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:52:12am

re: #15 mikey_dallas

It was never the speech. It was the whole lesson plan built around it that was in the same vein as that insipid video...about supporting / serving the President's agenda - that was the issue.

well, I guess after all is said & done this whole thing has gotten some prarents more involved with the education of their children for whatever reason I guess that is a good thing.

48 Pianobuff  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:52:36am

Charles - there is another aspect to the connection of Obama and Harry Potter. Add this to your list./

Harry Potter and the Fascist Ubermensch

49 itellu3times  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:52:47am

mostly harmless

Shalom Terms Sly
Shalt Slyer Moms
Ham Smells Story
Ham Smells Tyros
Ham Smelly Sorts
Ham Sells Stormy
Ham Yells Storms
Ham Messy Stroll
Ham Stress Molly
Harms Smell Toys
Harms Smelly Sot
Harms Yells Most
Sham Smell Story
Sham System Roll
Sham Messy Troll
Lastly Hers Moms
Sally Hems Storm
Moral Less Myths
Molar Less Myths
Alms Loser Myths

50 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:52:55am

re: #29 DonFla

It's not the speech per se, it's the liberal pounding most children will receive after from their teachers.

How do you know this will happen?
Are you absolutely positive this will happen?
Shouldn't parents be asking their kids what's going on and having their own discussions with their kids, imparting their own family's values?

My parents never kept ideas away from us. Ever.
And I haven't done it with my kid.
But we do let her know what our values are, through our discussions and through our actions, how we live our lives.

51 opnion  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:52:56am

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

Harry Potter is not lame!

Are you a Muggle?

52 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:53:18am

re: #45 Banner

In the same way so many teachers and agencies are starting to push kids to tell their parents to conserve, recycle, and all the other green crap. And to report on their parents when they don't follow the rules. Remember the whole war on drugs 'out your parents for illegal drug use' push?

And while I doubt this was as extreme, look at the philosophy of Obama's friends and mentors. I'm sure there would have been things objectionable, lets face it, he really doesn't care for America very much, nor most of its people. He's said so repeatedly in his books, his speeches, and when he campaigned.

lol go back to drudge or breitbart or wherever you came from please

53 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:53:26am

re: #44 debutaunt

How much time is it likely to take away from the normal school day?

Well, given that most of the people I talked to said their school wasn't planning to screen it, at least on the day in question, not a whole lot!

54 alegrias  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:53:37am

re: #27 EndlessBob

Sure, the speech is fine now, after the letter-writing "How can I help my Dear Leader President?" exercise was pointed out, objected to and removed.

* * * *
Don't you remember rolling your eyes when the first President Bush called himself the "Education President"?

Perhaps the UNION teachers who run public schools need the pep talk --so kids won't quit in disgust or boredom.

I argue it's the EDUCATORS who let the kids down.

Judging by what happens in inner city black Washington DC, parents of charter school kids are desperate to send their kids to THOSE schools, where the teachers are oddly more motivated to help their inner city pupils LEARN.

55 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:53:43am

re: #43 Sharmuta

I'll set aside my snarkiness for a moment to say something important.

This is something that every child in this country should hear, because in this one segment- the history of America echos. Men and women from across the globe have come here and written their own destinies. They had children who went on to write their own destinies. And more come to our shores every day with this same hope- the promise of opportunity.

For those holding their children back from school so they can avoid this now apparently horrible message- shame on you. You spit on the men and women who define the American Dream, you spit on those who have defended the American Dream, and you rob your children of the opportunity to ponder this Dream tomorrow. It's about the most un-American thing I've seen in many years. Beyond disappointing.

Agree, and I might add - this is the same message I heard often from my very own parents.

56 itellu3times  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:54:15am

re: #49 itellu3times

Smarmy Hell Sots

57 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:54:21am

re: #45 Banner

Conserving is not "green crap," it's conserving.
That's a conservative trait

58 jones  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:54:35am

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

Harry Potter is not lame!

I liked Harry Potter when it was Star Wars. When she repackaged the idea, it got really weak. If you like myths, read Ovid, or Homer, or Grimm. Not watered down feel good nerd food.

Flame away.

59 NukeAtomrod  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:55:08am

So the controversy was over a previous draft of the speech:

Among the activities the government initially suggested for prekindergarten to sixth-grade students: that they "write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president."

The speech was rewritten. Controversy over.

It is worth noting however that much of the reporting on this omits the controversial part of the speech, instead choosing to frame it this way:

The uproar over the speech, in which Mr. Obama intends to urge students to work hard and stay in school...

60 Wendya  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:55:09am

re: #37 jones

Harry Potter? That is lame. Is he going to eat McDonalds food too?

Overall, why is he making such a vapid speech? Pretty lame, Milhous.

The speech is addressed to all grade levels. I am no fan of this President but if he's going to tell the kids of America they have to take personal responsibility and work for whatever successes they earn, I'm 100% behind him.

61 Gella  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:55:13am

re: #58 jones

I liked Harry Potter when it was Star Wars. When she repackaged the idea, it got really weak. If you like myths, read Ovid, or Homer, or Grimm. Not watered down feel good nerd food.

Flame away.

ha ha ha ha

62 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:55:16am

re: #41 Charles

There you go -- he changed it! He removed the socialism! It's all so clear! Why didn't I see it?

Three cheers to the right wing blogs for saving us from Obama!

You forgot the sarc tags.

63 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:55:45am

The problem isn't the speech itself... per se. It is benign and if nothing else, it's too long for the kids to expect them to pay attention

What was ominous was the "supplementary materials" which was going to be distributed to the schools by the DOE.

64 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:56:04am

re: #58 jones

I liked Harry Potter when it was Star Wars. When she repackaged the idea, it got really weak. If you like myths, read Ovid, or Homer, or Grimm. Not watered down feel good nerd food.

Flame away.

oh hell no you didn't just say that

65 alegrias  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:56:05am

re: #35 SanFranciscoZionist

Same exercise George Bush Sr. included in his speech?

* * * *
Hahahaha.

Wasn't it you I discussed how no teacher of mine ever mentioned Ronald Reagan's "ideas" in class, much less took them seriously?

66 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:56:12am

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

Harry Potter is not lame!

I couldn't agree more. Harry is awesome. As FBV pointed out on the last thread- they're actually quite spiritual books. Harry's love and self-sacrifice save humanity from the evil Lord Voldemort. What a horrible moral!

I also find the books to be a great analogy to nationalism- the pure bloods and the mud bloods. Also an important moral, imo. The outcry against these books is just insane.

67 Big Steve  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:56:27am

Speaking of reading, I saw today in the fishwrap that Amazon.com is refusing to give out locator information for Kindle's that are reported stolen. At least until presented a police order. While the paper made a big deal out of it, I don't think their policy is any different than others. I had my Blackberry swiped a year or so ago and RIM refused to try to locate it after I called them and told me to go have the police file the report with them (which I did.)

68 EaterOfFood  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:56:52am

re: #11 alegrias

I wasn't offended by "My Pet Goat" which President Bush was reading to small school children on September 11, 2001.

Reading is fundamental.

Bush actually bothered to show up at that school. Sacre bleu!

This speech will probably be forgotten. My congressional "representative" spoke to my class in the 8th grade. That's about all I can remember of his accomplishments.

69 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:57:04am

Ahem.

DOE is the Department of Energy.

70 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:57:10am

re: #11 alegrias

but a whole bunch of liberals bashed bush for it.

71 Gella  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:57:11am

re: #66 Sharmuta

I couldn't agree more. Harry is awesome. As FBV pointed out on the last thread- they're actually quite spiritual books. Harry's love and self-sacrifice save humanity from the evil Lord Voldemort. What a horrible moral!

I also find the books to be a great analogy to nationalism- the pure bloods and the mud bloods. Also an important moral, imo. The outcry against these books is just insane.

gmmm have u seen "district 9"?? pretty much same idea

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:57:35am

re: #58 jones

I liked Harry Potter when it was Star Wars. When she repackaged the idea, it got really weak. If you like myths, read Ovid, or Homer, or Grimm. Not watered down feel good nerd food.

Flame away.

No flame, but I enjoy the books, and have read Ovid, Homer, Grimm, Tolkien, Dante, Hans Christian Andersen and the Mabinogi in two translations.

And I'm enormously impressed with the impact it's had on its young readers.

73 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:57:46am

re: #69 Gus 802

Ahem.

DOE is the Department of Energy.

Not Departmetn of Education ?

74 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:57:48am

And just in time for Labor Day. Put a freakin' yellow crime scene tape around Wall St...
[Link: www.reuters.com...]

75 EaterOfFood  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:58:05am

re: #58 jones

I liked Harry Potter when it was Star Wars.

I liked Star Wars when it was "The Hidden Fortress".

76 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:58:17am

re: #73 DrNaughty

Not Departmetn of Education ?

I think that's just ED.

77 Nekama  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:58:59am

His plans for the speech came while he was pushing a very contentious health insurance reform platform and the original lesson plan advised students to “write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president” (since removed).

People who are opposed to Obama's proposals on health insurance had every right to be concerned about what appeared to be his enlisting their children to push his political platform.

78 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:59:36am

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist

No flame, but I enjoy the books, and have read Ovid, Homer, Grimm, Tolkien, Dante, Hans Christian Andersen and the Mabinogi in two translations.

And I'm enormously impressed with the impact it's had on its young readers.

JK Rowling is a hero of mine for getting kids reading.

79 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:59:40am

re: #59 NukeAtomrod

So the controversy was over a previous draft of the speech:

The speech was rewritten. Controversy over.

You're kidding, right? Do you realize that the article you posted doesn't back up your claim at all?

80 opnion  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:59:40am

re: #70 yochanan

but a whole bunch of liberals bashed bush for it.

Yeah, but that's different donchaknow? See BHO is enlightened & Bush Is
stoopid. Gettin that MBA & flyin a jet don't mean nuthin.

81 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:59:46am

re: #66 Sharmuta

I couldn't agree more. Harry is awesome. As FBV pointed out on the last thread- they're actually quite spiritual books. Harry's love and self-sacrifice save humanity from the evil Lord Voldemort. What a horrible moral!

I also find the books to be a great analogy to nationalism- the pure bloods and the mud bloods. Also an important moral, imo. The outcry against these books is just insane.

The thing I actually find most original to Rowling is that she deals with the intersections between class and facism. The Black family's dealings with Voldemort--very Mitford. It's a whole aspect that previous Brit fantasy novelists tend to ignore.

82 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 11:59:48am

re: #69 Gus 802

Ahem.

DOE is the Department of Energy.

ED

83 Randall Gross  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:00:13pm

The mention of Harry Potter is certain to garnish ire from some people. Everyone knows that Harry Potter is a sekret Stalinist.
//

84 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:00:34pm

re: #77 Nekama

There's nothing in this speech about politics. What would the kids have picked up on from the speech that would make them think about healthcare or any other part of his agenda?

85 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:00:37pm

re: #77 Nekama

His plans for the speech came while he was pushing a very contentious health insurance reform platform and the original lesson plan advised students to “write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president” (since removed).

People who are opposed to Obama's proposals on health insurance had every right to be concerned about what appeared to be his enlisting their children to push his political platform.

Enlisting their children?

86 Gella  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:00:41pm

re: #82 debutaunt

ED

in my medical world, it has different meaning

87 opnion  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:01:11pm

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist

No flame, but I enjoy the books, and have read Ovid, Homer, Grimm, Tolkien, Dante, Hans Christian Andersen and the Mabinogi in two translations.

And I'm enormously impressed with the impact it's had on its young readers.

And that's the point , a generation of chidren were encouraged to
read because of JK Rawling.

88 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:01:32pm

re: #86 Gella

in my medical world, it has different meaning

Really, it should be called the other DOE.

89 Randall Gross  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:01:56pm

re: #77 Nekama

His plans for the speech came while he was pushing a very contentious health insurance reform platform and the original lesson plan advised students to “write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president” (since removed).

People who are opposed to Obama's proposals on health insurance had every right to be concerned about what appeared to be his enlisting their children to push his political platform.

That's somewhat out of context however. The "how to help the president" really is referential to the goal and purpose of the speech: making sure more kids graduate high school and college.

90 Banner  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:02:03pm

re: #41 Charles

Sheesh, really. What, do you think everyone is stupid? Come on Charles give us all a little credit (and mind you THIS is the most 'right wing' blog that I read. Hell, YOURS is the only blog that I read). President Obama is not an idiot. With all the pounding he's been receiving in the press and in the polls do you really think he didn't sit down and scrub that speech for just this very reason? Even if that speech was perfectly innocent, I bet you it went through at least one, (probably more) major re-write to make it as non-contraversal as it could be.

It's a fluid game, and it is a game. When your opponent makes a move, you adjust your next one. It's the oppositions duty to bring to the light of public scrutiny everything that they disagree with. They did it to Bush, now the other side is doing it to Obama. Being snarky about this is just plain dumb. I'm sure ten or so years from now in some whitehouse staffer's memoirs / tell all, there will be a section on this speech and we'll see it was changed, and with all the water under the bridge at that point, no one will care anymore.

91 Desert Dog  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:02:21pm

re: #58 jones

Have you actually read the books?

If it's so easy, you should write down some gibberish and see if you makes a billionaire.

92 EaterOfFood  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:02:35pm

re: #74 tradewind

And just in time for Labor Day. Put a freakin' yellow crime scene tape around Wall St...
[Link: www.reuters.com...]

I hope that lying sack of garbage is giving away copies of the film for free.

93 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:02:35pm

the comment section at breitbart about this story right now is the most mind boggling thing i've ever witnessed.

94 Gella  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:02:48pm

re: #88 debutaunt

Really, it should be called the other DOE.

DOE Date of Entry
///

95 FrogMarch  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:02:50pm
And no matter what you want to do with your life – I guarantee that you’ll need an education to do it. You want to be a doctor, or a teacher, or a police officer? You want to be a nurse or an architect, a lawyer or a member of our military? You’re going to need a good education for every single one of those careers. You can’t drop out of school and just drop into a good job. You’ve got to work for it and train for it and learn for it.

That's cool.

If anyone has a problem with that - uh - get 'yer head examined.

96 JHW  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:03:23pm

Gah. The speech is a non-issue to me. I am reminded of a speech all of us school children heard in the 60's by a president many of our parents bitterly opposed, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." And a couple of years later, regardless of parents' politics or the heat of the issues, the mass shock and tears on all sides when this same president was murdered. Partisanship stopped right there. I'll never forget that day.

97 Big Steve  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:03:47pm

That damn elitist Abe Lincoln using "four score and seven years" instead of just saying eighty seven years. Secretly trying to get our children to learn math when they should be out plowing the fields.

98 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:03:55pm

re: #94 Gella

DOE Date of Entry
///

I like TLA. Three letter acronym.

99 brookly red  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:04:10pm

re: #94 Gella

DOE Date of Entry
///

or dead on entry?

100 Randall Gross  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:04:10pm

From AP:

Education Secretary Arne Duncan called that "just silly" during a Sunday television interview. He said the text of the speech would be on the White House Web site Monday and that watching the address was voluntary.

Opponents to the president's school message latched onto a lesson plan, since amended, the department sent out asking students to write letters "about what they can do to help the president." Duncan said that referred to Obama's "goal of having the highest percent of college graduates by 2020."

The secretary noted: "We just clarified that to say 'write a letter about your own goals and what you're going to do to achieve those goals.' So again it's really about personal responsibility and being accountable, setting real goals and having the work ethic to see them through."

101 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:04:21pm

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

The thing I actually find most original to Rowling is that she deals with the intersections between class and facism. The Black family's dealings with Voldemort--very Mitford. It's a whole aspect that previous Brit fantasy novelists tend to ignore.

I hadn't considered that before. She did a good job mixing economic class and blood class on both sides, imo.

102 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:04:23pm

Michelle Malkin of course, is offended that people are calling her a kook for her opposition to this speech and she's braying on her website this afternoon that "it's not the speech, it's the subtext!"

It’s not the speech, it’s the subtext.

It’s the radical activism of the White House Teaching Fellows who designed the education guides tied to Obama’s speech.

It’s the overzealousness of public school educators who have turned classrooms into Obama campaign offices.

It’s the influence of the left-wing social justice crusaders of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge on Team Obama.

It’s the Left’s embrace of Obama Chicago pal Bill Ayers’ pedagogical philosophy of “education as the motor-force of revolution.”

It’s the activist tradition of government schools using students as junior lobbyists to pressure legislators for higher education spending, pro-illegal immigration protests, gay marriage, environmental propaganda, and anti-war causes.

Waa, waa, waaah!

Nice try, Michelle.
You're still an idiot.

103 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:04:25pm

re: #77 Nekama

Dude. I really hate to see you swallowing the bogus talking points like this. You're taking ONE sentence from the lesson plan so out of context it's just ridiculous.

And that sentence was removed when people started yelling about it, not because they were guilty of anything, but to try to head off the fake outrage.

It didn't work, of course, because fake outrage is its own reward.

Please don't join the paranoid mob. Criticize Obama for real things, not for this empty, foolish nonsense.

104 Gella  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:04:50pm

re: #99 brookly red

or dead on entry?

pick one
[Link: www.acronymfinder.com...]

105 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:05:22pm

re: #95 FrogMarch

That's cool.

If anyone has a problem with that - uh - get 'yer head examined.

People are examining their heads right now and freaking out about what they imagine he might have said. Insane.

106 Pianobuff  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:05:57pm

re: #97 Big Steve

That damn elitist Abe Lincoln using "four score and seven years" instead of just saying eighty seven years. Secretly trying to get our children to learn math when they should be out plowing the fields.

That was a plot to move us to base 20.

107 Nekama  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:06:11pm

re: #89 Thanos

That's somewhat out of context however. The "how to help the president" really is referential to the goal and purpose of the speech: making sure more kids graduate high school and college.

We know that now. But that was not the case when the some began to be concerned. It appeared as if Obama might have been attempting to enlist (yes, Sharmuta) school children to advance his political agenda.

108 The Curmudgeon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:06:23pm

re: #7 HelloDare

Yeah, but try reading the speech backwards. It's evil, I tell you.

I've been listening to it backwards. He distinctly says: "Stalin was a great guy!"

109 voirdire  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:06:32pm

Scared Straight.

110 SasquatchOnSteroids  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:06:35pm

re: #105 jaunte

People are examining their heads right now and freaking out about what they imagine he might have said. Insane.

If I catch my son studying his math after this speech, I'm gonna be one pissed off daddy.

/

111 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:06:50pm

re: #103 Charles

Criticize Obama for real things, not for this empty, foolish nonsense.

Seriously, is it that too much to ask?
Or is intellectual honesty truly dead in this country?

112 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:06:56pm

I'm sure Glen Beck is working himself into quite a lather right about now. Expect more craziness on Fox News at 5 eastern.

113 NukeAtomrod  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:07:12pm

re: #79 Charles

You're kidding, right? Do you realize that the article you posted doesn't back up your claim at all?

I think it does, the controversy was over the President asking our kids to help HIM. The rest of the speech was innocuous stuff.

That is unless you believe that Republicans are against the idea of "kids working hard and staying in school" because that is, somehow, a socialist agenda...

114 Crimsonfisted  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:07:26pm

As for me, I am sick to death of his mug being on tv! Can we PLEASE get a week free from Obama and the Mrs, for a change? Give us a break already.

115 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:07:36pm

The speech ends with:

Thank you, God bless you, and God bless America.


Both the ACLU and Rev. Wright are going to be upset at that!
(I, however, have no problem with it.)

116 Bloodnok  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:07:48pm

re: #90 Banner

Sheesh, really. What, do you think everyone is stupid? Come on Charles give us all a little credit (and mind you THIS is the most 'right wing' blog that I read. Hell, YOURS is the only blog that I read). President Obama is not an idiot. With all the pounding he's been receiving in the press and in the polls do you really think he didn't sit down and scrub that speech for just this very reason? Even if that speech was perfectly innocent, I bet you it went through at least one, (probably more) major re-write to make it as non-contraversal as it could be.

It's a fluid game, and it is a game. When your opponent makes a move, you adjust your next one. It's the oppositions duty to bring to the light of public scrutiny everything that they disagree with. They did it to Bush, now the other side is doing it to Obama. Being snarky about this is just plain dumb. I'm sure ten or so years from now in some whitehouse staffer's memoirs / tell all, there will be a section on this speech and we'll see it was changed, and with all the water under the bridge at that point, no one will care anymore.

Oh that'll be fun. Let's all pretend what COULD have been in there, but wasn't.

I bet he was originally going to say something real soshulistick-like after sentence 3.

117 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:08:31pm

re: #113 NukeAtomrod

I think it does, the controversy was over the President asking our kids to help HIM.

Do you realize that you're citing something that was not in the speech?

118 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:08:33pm
And that’s what I want to focus on today: the responsibility each of you has for your education. I want to start with the responsibility you have to yourself.

Every single one of you has something you’re good at. Every single one of you has something to offer. And you have a responsibility to yourself to discover what that is. That’s the opportunity an education can provide.
Maybe you could be a good writer – maybe even good enough to write a book or articles in a newspaper – but you might not know it until you write a paper for your English class. Maybe you could be an innovator or an inventor – maybe even good enough to come up with the next iPhone or a new medicine or vaccine – but you might not know it until you do a project for your science class. Maybe you could be a mayor or a Senator or a Supreme Court Justice, but you might not know that until you join student government or the debate team.

...

And this isn’t just important for your own life and your own future. What you make of your education will decide nothing less than the future of this country. What you’re learning in school today will determine whether we as a nation can meet our greatest challenges in the future.
You’ll need the knowledge and problem-solving skills you learn in science and math to cure diseases like cancer and AIDS, and to develop new energy technologies and protect our environment. You’ll need the insights and critical thinking skills you gain in history and social studies to fight poverty and homelessness, crime and discrimination, and make our nation more fair and more free. You’ll need the creativity and ingenuity you develop in all your classes to build new companies that will create new jobs and boost our economy.

...

I know that sometimes, you get the sense from TV that you can be rich and successful without any hard work -- that your ticket to success is through rapping or basketball or being a reality TV star, when chances are, you’re not going to be any of those things.

But the truth is, being successful is hard. You won’t love every subject you study. You won’t click with every teacher. Not every homework assignment will seem completely relevant to your life right this minute. And you won’t necessarily succeed at everything the first time you try.

As someone who has had over 6,000 students, I will say straight up that this is what every educator prays his or her students takes to heart.

This directly addresses the false idea that one does not need an education. It puts personal responsibility into the hands of the kids and tells them to make something of themselves. It tells them this is not easy, but worth it. It is the exact opposite of the anti-intellectualism rampant in America.

ANYONE who bashes this for any reason is an utter asshole.

119 Randall Gross  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:08:43pm

re: #107 Nekama

We know that now. But that was not the case when the some began to be concerned. It appeared as if Obama might have been attempting to enlist (yes, Sharmuta) school children to advance his political agenda.

I like truth, not appearances however. I think it's an admirable goal and speech.

120 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:08:53pm

re: #24 Banner

Duh, with all of the outcry he changed the speech. Really, he's not stupid, and while I doubt his speech would have been what the more extreme people think it was going to be, I'm sure if you got your hands on a draft from before the outcry, you would have thought parts of it improper.

Your desperation to declare this debacle some kind of 'win' for the wackos who frothed about it is very sad.

Here's how the Wingnut Fandango currently goes:

1. Make up hysterical shit about something wholly innocuous. Rumour monger and fear monger.
2. When said Apocalypse fails to materialise (ie. White House releases statement, whatever) blame it all on Obama. (If only he had done X sooner, we would never have believed crazy conspiracy theory Y!)
3. Declare victory, and get mad at your imaginary fantasies of what Obama was seekritly planning all along -- until the brave keyboard warriors of Wingnuttia exposed him.
4. Get mad when people laugh at you and say the right wing blogosphere is worse than useless.

5. Repeat steps 1-4, ad infinitum, ad nauseaum.

121 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:09:04pm

re: #116 Bloodnok

It's pretty bad when reduced to being offended by one's own imagination.

122 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:09:47pm

re: #77 Nekama

His plans for the speech came while he was pushing a very contentious health insurance reform platform and the original lesson plan advised students to “write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president” (since removed).

People who are opposed to Obama's proposals on health insurance had every right to be concerned about what appeared to be his enlisting their children to push his political platform.

The "lesson plan" never made any mention of what the kids were supposed to be helping Obama to do. Whoever wrote the thing wasn't thinking straight, imo, and what they probably meant to do was something like what they ended up with, in other words, something along the lines of "help the President make sure everybody gets a good education". It was changed to having the kids write letters to themselves outlining their personal educational goals, a MUCH better activity, imo. The original was too vague.

123 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:09:48pm

re: #114 Crimsonfisted

My Marine is tuning in tommorrow to listen to his commander-in-chief speak.
If he can do it, then you can do it.

124 HelloDare  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:09:50pm

re: #108 The Curmudgeon

I've been listening to it backwards. He distinctly says: "Stalin was a great guy!"

Told ya.

125 Banner  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:10:00pm

re: #52 SpaceJesus

Umm dude, I've been reading this blog for years, prior to the whole dan rather memo's to be honest. (Though I admit to only registering a year or two ago). I found it interesting because I used to be a fan of Stanley Clark's and used to go see his shows. So when one of his former band members started a blog, I started visiting it.

That's why I'm here. Drudge et al had nothing to do with it.

Why to liberal's always have to resort to insults about how people on the right are too stupid to think for themselves? I don't tell you to go back to Chris Mathews and MSNBC do I?

My understanding of politics comes from close association with it. I worked on 2 presidential campaigns, and a senatorial campaign. I also used to work with a couple of state and federal agencies on rules and rules changes (as a private citizen, and as a leader of a private non-profit). I've seen more than my fair share of this BS and the crap that goes on behind closed doors, and I have a very low opinion of politicians, and most of the people who support them. This blog is about as political as I get these days.

126 Rexatosis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:10:08pm

I always have hated these type of rah rah speeches, special visitors, assemblies unrelated to the subject matter my students are studying. Just think it is a waste of time, of which there is far too little in the semester or school year.

127 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:10:31pm

Here's Obama asking the kids to help him:

Your families, your teachers, and I are doing everything we can to make sure you have the education you need to answer these questions. I’m working hard to fix up your classrooms and get you the books, equipment and computers you need to learn. But you’ve got to do your part too. So I expect you to get serious this year. I expect you to put your best effort into everything you do.
128 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:10:58pm
The story of America isn’t about people who quit when things got tough. It’s about people who kept going, who tried harder, who loved their country too much to do anything less than their best.

It’s the story of students who sat where you sit 250 years ago, and went on to wage a revolution and found this nation. Students who sat where you sit 75 years ago who overcame a Depression and won a world war; who fought for civil rights and put a man on the moon...

So today, I want to ask you, what’s your contribution going to be? What problems are you going to solve? What discoveries will you make? What will a president who comes here in twenty or fifty or one hundred years say about what all of you did for this country?

Damn Straight Mr. President.

I had been giving you lower marks, but this midterm has pulled up your average.

129 opnion  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:10:59pm

re: #114 Crimsonfisted

As for me, I am sick to death of his mug being on tv! Can we PLEASE get a week free from Obama and the Mrs, for a change? Give us a break already.

He is an attention hound. He is jealous of the bride at a wedding & the departed at a wake.

130 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:11:18pm

re: #107 Nekama

We know that now. But that was not the case when the some began to be concerned. It appeared as if Obama might have been attempting to enlist (yes, Sharmuta) school children to advance his political agenda.

But we see now that's not the case at all. So the concern was misplaced, and the hysterics of some look like, well- hysterics.

131 itellu3times  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:12:08pm

re: #69 Gus 802

Ahem.

DOE is the Department of Energy.

RAY, a drop of golden sun.

132 rightymouse  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:12:13pm

My son's private school will not be partipating in this useless nonsense tomorrow.

133 voirdire  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:12:47pm

re: #131 itellu3times

RAY, a drop of golden sun.

Sweet.

134 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:13:11pm

re: #90 Banner

Sheesh, really. What, do you think everyone is stupid? Come on Charles give us all a little credit (and mind you THIS is the most 'right wing' blog that I read. Hell, YOURS is the only blog that I read). President Obama is not an idiot. With all the pounding he's been receiving in the press and in the polls do you really think he didn't sit down and scrub that speech for just this very reason? Even if that speech was perfectly innocent, I bet you it went through at least one, (probably more) major re-write to make it as non-contraversal as it could be.

It's a fluid game, and it is a game. When your opponent makes a move, you adjust your next one. It's the oppositions duty to bring to the light of public scrutiny everything that they disagree with. They did it to Bush, now the other side is doing it to Obama. Being snarky about this is just plain dumb. I'm sure ten or so years from now in some whitehouse staffer's memoirs / tell all, there will be a section on this speech and we'll see it was changed, and with all the water under the bridge at that point, no one will care anymore.

In other words, "oh it might sound fine now but that's not what he originally wrote."

Give me a break. With that line of thinking the possible conspiracy theories are endless. Not only that but you went from re-writing the past in some alleged re-writing scenario to a future fictionalization.

135 FrogMarch  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:13:13pm

I'm still puzzled as to why he put an end to the popular DC voucher program. It helped disadvantaged children do better.

What's good for DC kids? "Evidence that children in the program made "solid gains... 19 months ahead of public school peers in reading..."
The dems killed it anyway. Politics and pressure from teachers unions trumps helping at least 1700 DC kids.

136 Crimsonfisted  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:13:18pm

re: #123 Irish Rose

I am speaking generally. I will be at work at the time (noon EST, I think), and I can read it, which I prefer. It is the 24/7 that is driving me nuts.

137 Banner  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:13:33pm

re: #120 iceweasel

Dude, that was pretty lame.

138 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:14:12pm

re: #118 LudwigVanQuixote

As someone who has had over 6,000 students, I will say straight up that this is what every educator prays his or her students takes to heart.

This directly addresses the false idea that one does not need an education. It puts personal responsibility into the hands of the kids and tells them to make something of themselves. It tells them this is not easy, but worth it. It is the exact opposite of the anti-intellectualism rampant in America.

ANYONE who bashes this for any reason is an utter asshole.

Absolutely. And, I will add, afflicted with ODS beyond all reason. The idea that anyone could find anything to complain about in this speech is symptomatic of the current collapse of the right. It's not as if there aren't legitimate criticisms to make of Obama.

Better opposition party, please.

139 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:14:16pm

re: #132 rightymouse

My son's private school will not be partipating in this useless nonsense tomorrow.

My son's public school will.
It's a message that our children need to hear.

140 abbyadams  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:14:17pm

re: #24 Banner

That just makes my brain hurt. You mean you imagined what he was going to say, and now are taking responsibility for him having changed what you imagined he was going to say?

Cool, the POTUS is clairvoyant!

141 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:14:22pm

re: #131 itellu3times

RAY, a drop of golden sun.

MI - a name I call myself.

142 Bloodnok  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:14:46pm

re: #121 Sharmuta

It's pretty bad when reduced to being offended by one's own imagination.

I love that phrasing.

143 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:14:46pm

re: #125 Banner

Umm dude, I've been reading this blog for years, prior to the whole dan rather memo's to be honest. (Though I admit to only registering a year or two ago). I found it interesting because I used to be a fan of Stanley Clark's and used to go see his shows. So when one of his former band members started a blog, I started visiting it.

That's why I'm here. Drudge et al had nothing to do with it.

Why to liberal's always have to resort to insults about how people on the right are too stupid to think for themselves? I don't tell you to go back to Chris Mathews and MSNBC do I?

My understanding of politics comes from close association with it. I worked on 2 presidential campaigns, and a senatorial campaign. I also used to work with a couple of state and federal agencies on rules and rules changes (as a private citizen, and as a leader of a private non-profit). I've seen more than my fair share of this BS and the crap that goes on behind closed doors, and I have a very low opinion of politicians, and most of the people who support them. This blog is about as political as I get these days.

tl;dr

144 Wendya  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:14:46pm

re: #135 FrogMarch

I'm still puzzled as to why he put an end to the popular DC voucher program. It helped disadvantaged children do better.

The teachers unions will not stand for it.

145 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:15:04pm

re: #132 rightymouse

My son's private school will not be partipating in this useless nonsense tomorrow.

Did you read this? What in it is useless? What kind of private school could possibly consider these thoughts and ideals, the essence of what should be American ideals of education, useless?

Is this some private academy that teaches creationism or that the Germans were really misunderstood in the 30's?

I am not writing that as useless invective. What kind of school that likes education at all, could find any fault in those remarks?

146 Shug  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:15:47pm

I've cracked it !

I used my sekret muslim decoder ring

The President: Hello everyone - how's everybody doing today? I'm here with students at Wakefield High School in Arlington, Virginia. And we've got students tuning in from all across America, kindergarten through twelfth grade. I'm glad you all could join us today.

I know that for many of you, today is the first day of school. And for those of you in kindergarten, or starting middle or high school, it's your first day in a new school, so it's understandable if you're a little nervous. I imagine there are some seniors out there who are feeling pretty good right now, with just one more year to go. And no matter what grade you're in, some of you are probably wishing it were still summer, and you could've stayed in bed just a little longer this morning.

I know that feeling. When I was young, my family lived in Indonesia for a few years, and my mother didn't have the money to send me where all the American kids went to school. So she decided to teach me extra lessons herself, Monday through Friday - at 4:30 in the morning. Now I wasn't too happy about getting up that early. A lot of times, I'd fall asleep right there at the kitchen table. But whenever I'd complain, my mother would just give me one of those looks and say, "This is no picnic for me either, buster."

So I know some of you are still adjusting to being back at school. But I'm here today because I have something important to discuss with you. I'm here because I want to talk with you about your education and what's expected of all of you in this new school year.

Now I've given a lot of speeches about education. And I've talked a lot about responsibility.
I've talked about your teachers' responsibility for inspiring you, and pushing you to learn. I've talked about your parents' responsibility for making sure you stay on track, and get your homework done, and don't spend every waking hour in front of the TV or with that Xbox.

I've talked a lot about your government's responsibility for setting high standards, supporting teachers and principals, and turning around schools that aren't working where students aren't getting the opportunities they deserve.

But at the end of the day, we can have the most dedicated teachers, the most supportive parents, and the best schools in the world - and none of it will matter unless all of you fulfill your responsibilities. Unless you show up to those schools; pay attention to those teachers; listen to your parents, grandparents and other adults; and put in the hard work it takes to succeed.
And that's what I want to focus on today: the responsibility each of you has for your education. I want to start with the responsibility you have to yourself.

Every single one of you has something you're good at. Every single one of you has something to offer. And you have a responsibility to yourself to discover what that is. That's the opportunity an education can provide.

Maybe you could be a good writer - maybe even good enough to write a book or articles in a newspaper - but you might not know it until you write a paper for your English class. Maybe you could be an innovator or an inventor - maybe even good enough to come up with the next iPhone or a new medicine or vaccine - but you might not know it until you do a project for your science class. Maybe you could be a mayor or a Senator or a Supreme Court Justice, but you might not know that until you join student government or the debate team.

147 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:15:54pm

Wow, they're really crawling out of the woodwork this afternoon.

148 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:16:01pm

re: #142 Bloodnok

I love that phrasing.

I imagined you were going to say something else, and you're a jerk for what I thought you were going to say, btw. Jerk.

;p

149 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:16:07pm

test

[Link: www.ed.gov...]

150 midwestgak  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:16:11pm

17 year old Michelle Oudin advances to the quarter finals in the US Open.

Tiger shot a 63 in third round (-12).

151 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:17:38pm

re: #137 Banner

Dude, that was pretty lame.

I'm a chick, dude.
I agree. The Wingnut Fandango is an exceptionally lame dance. It tends to end with their pants falling down around their ankles, tripping over a skateboard, and plunging into a huge wedding cake of Fail.

Ruins the party for all the rest of us everytime. ;)

152 Gella  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:17:43pm

re: #150 midwestgak

17 year old Michelle Oudin advances to the quarter finals in the US Open.

Tiger shot a 63 in third round (-12).

i just watched Ouden match, kid can play and play well

153 FrogMarch  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:18:02pm

re: #144 Wendya

The teachers unions will not stand for it.

&
Laughably - it didn't fit into the stimulus spending.

154 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:18:08pm

re: #148 Sharmuta

I imagined you were going to say something else, and you're a jerk for what I thought you were going to say, btw. Jerk.

;p

We'll find out later once he writes his memoir.

//

155 Nekama  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:18:24pm

re: #103 Charles

Dude. I really hate to see you swallowing the bogus talking points like this. You're taking ONE sentence from the lesson plan so out of context it's just ridiculous.

And that sentence was removed when people started yelling about it, not because they were guilty of anything, but to try to head off the fake outrage.

It didn't work, of course, because fake outrage is its own reward.

Please don't join the paranoid mob. Criticize Obama for real things, not for this empty, foolish nonsense.

Charles, that is my point. The sentence, when viewed in context of Obama's health insurance reform platform and to those who do not support it, was objectionable. And if it had remained, it would have been a real thing.

As to the paranoid mob reference, I honestly and respectfully believe that you are, at times, taking this too far. I've stated my peace elsewhere. If I stand in protest of much of what Obama represents that doesn't mean that I agree with all of the viewpoints of all of the people who stand with me. It is, to me, specific to Obama's agenda and the overall direction of the country.

I know this doesn't make me popular here, and I wholeheartedly agree with outing the backgrounds of many of the tea party organizers, but indicting all of us who stand in protest as somehow being in agreement with everything and with all of those who attend is really taking it too far.

156 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:18:50pm

re: #111 Irish Rose

Seriously, is it that too much to ask?
Or is intellectual honesty truly dead in this country?

It's not dead, it's just resting!

157 Bloodnok  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:18:51pm

re: #148 Sharmuta

I imagined you were going to say something else, and you're a jerk for what I thought you were going to say, btw. Jerk.

;p

Ha!

Years from now Charles will reveal what I was really typing before I erased it. And by then we will have all moved on.

158 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:18:51pm

re: #150 midwestgak

17 year old Michelle Oudin advances to the quarter finals in the US Open.

Tiger shot a 63 in third round (-12).

Her opponents must be asking if this is against some sort of child labor law!

159 Bob Dillon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:18:59pm

re: #139 Irish Rose

My son's public school will.
It's a message that our children need to hear.

In all due respect - it would be better for them to hear it and experience it by example from their parents.

160 avanti  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:19:07pm

re: #77 Nekama

His plans for the speech came while he was pushing a very contentious health insurance reform platform and the original lesson plan advised students to “write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president” (since removed).

People who are opposed to Obama's proposals on health insurance had every right to be concerned about what appeared to be his enlisting their children to push his political platform.

It was to help the President advance education goals for the kids, nothing political about it, but the wording was poor and changed.

161 Shug  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:19:21pm

I have to ask myself:
If George Bush had given an address to America's school children, what would the reaction been of the right--approval

and the left--foaming at the mouth.

Let's not imitate the left

162 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:19:44pm

re: #138 iceweasel

Absolutely. And, I will add, afflicted with ODS beyond all reason. The idea that anyone could find anything to complain about in this speech is symptomatic of the current collapse of the right. It's not as if there aren't legitimate criticisms to make of Obama.

Better opposition party, please.

I would be happy with some honest-to-goodness relevant and non-idiotic leader to come forward in the current opposition party.

163 John Neverbend  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:19:47pm

Dripping with Sarcasm? Supersaturated would be a more accurate description.

Charles Johnson ∞ - Doug Piranha 0

Seriously, I bench-tested the speech on my 10 1/2 year old son who seems to have been playing this annoying computer game non-stop ever since he came back from summer camp. The conversation went like this:

Me: Don't spend every waking hour in front of the TV or with that computer game!

Him: Who said that?

Me: Your president!

Him: Oh (resuming his computer game).

Oh well, at least he didn't turn into a mesmerized automaton. I think I'll try it out on my daughter.

164 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:20:16pm

re: #151 iceweasel

Writing in wingnut constantly is really cool.

165 avanti  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:20:37pm

re: #132 rightymouse

My son's private school will not be partipating in this useless nonsense tomorrow.

Sorry to hear you disagree with the POTUS's message.

166 Banner  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:20:57pm

re: #134 Gus 802

Give me a break. I'm not claiming, (nor have I ever claimed) that this speech was going to be some big socialist event, or some sort of brainwashing, attempt, or any of that. Given who Obama is, and based on his track record, I was expecting that there might be a few things in there that some would find improper (perhaps even myself), but I doubted it would be anything major or earth shaking.

And if you know anything at all about politics and politicians (which it appears you do not), if some speech they're going to give suddenly gets a whole bunch of attention before it's given, some speech that was not supposed to be all that big or important, you better believe they go back and re-write the thing! Because now the audience has changed, gotten bigger, and nothing appeals to any politician's ego as a bigger audience.

Even if the original speech was perfectly fine and innocent (and I'm not saying it wasn't), the situation surrounding the speech has changed, so the speech must changed. That's politics 101. If you've ever given speeches or talks you would know this.

167 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:21:14pm

re: #159 Bobibutu

In all due respect - it would be better for them to hear it and experience it by example from their parents.

But some kids don't, and this is the honest truth. They need to hear it from somebody of importance.

168 NukeAtomrod  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:21:33pm

re: #117 Charles

Do you realize that you're citing something that was not in the speech?

It was in the lesson plan sent out by the White House to accompany the speech. We never saw the original draft of the speech before it was changes, but it is reasonable to believe that the speech would mirror the lesson plan.

When the lesson plan sparked the controversy, because it was assumed that it revealed the content of the upcoming speech, the White House acknowledged the problem and changed it.

This should have ended the controversy... but, much of the ensuing reporting made the insinuation that "Those crazy Republicans think the President is pushing a socialist agenda on our children by telling them to work hard and stay in school."

169 Big Steve  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:22:05pm

Look...I gotta say, Barack Obama is an impressive guy from the standpoint of his life and what he has risen to and from where he came. I may not agree with his politics but if either of my sons turned out as well as him, I would be busting with pride. He should address school kids and if he even inspires just a handful of them he is doing the job we are paying him for.

170 rightymouse  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:22:10pm

re: #139 Irish Rose

My son's public school will.
It's a message that our children need to hear.

Why? Because the teachers are doing such a crappy job on their own?

171 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:22:15pm

re: #155 Nekama

I think the point is you can be a part of the rational objectors to Obama's policies, or you can be a part of the opposition lousy with truthers, birthers, paulians, and other kooks and haters.

172 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:22:35pm
Why is it important that we listen to the president and other elected officials, like the mayor, senators, members of congress, or the governor? Why is what they say important?

I have a problem with this. We are their employers. Why not instruct the students about how to tell them what we want them to hear? Why what we have to say is "important"?

173 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:22:40pm

re: #111 Irish Rose

Seriously, is it that too much to ask?
Or is intellectual honesty truly dead in this country?

It's taken some extreme body blows of late.

Paradoxically, this speech is exactly the sentiment to cure that.

174 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:22:41pm

re: #155 Nekama

I know this doesn't make me popular here, and I wholeheartedly agree with outing the backgrounds of many of the tea party organizers, but indicting all of us who stand in protest as somehow being in agreement with everything and with all of those who attend is really taking it too far.

But I did not ever "indict" all tea party protesters. Not once.

The reality is that there are very serious problems with the organizers of the tea parties. They're almost all connected to Ron Paul, and if you start digging you very quickly find links to even worse groups like the John Birch Society.

I realize that it doesn't make me popular to try to point this out, but who else is doing it? Nobody seems to care that they're supporting and empowering really bad people and groups. They just want to look the other way and pretend there's nothing wrong.

175 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:22:44pm

re: #154 Gus 802

We'll find out later once he writes his memoir.

//

And then I will object, on the basis that William Ayers ghostwrote the memoir! And on the basis of the book Ayers had originally intended to write, but didn't!

176 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:23:52pm

re: #159 Bobibutu

In all due respect - it would be better for them to hear it and experience it by example from their parents.

Why take kids to church? Is the minister going to say anything that parents shouldn't be saying and showing by example at home? Why is organized religion trying to undermine parents' authority?
/

177 John Neverbend  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:23:53pm

re: #168 NukeAtomrod

When the lesson plan sparked the controversy, because it was assumed that it revealed the content of the upcoming speech, the White House acknowledged the problem and changed it.

Did they change the speech or the accompanying plan of writing letters to oneself about what one could do to help the president (or both)?

178 Shug  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:23:54pm

Children should be tought to respect the Office of the Presidency. I disagree with President Obama on most of his policy, but he seems like a man who deserves respect and deserves to be heard, as does every duly elected President.

And that's how I plan to raise my children. Be respectful. Listen.
It's the job of parents to teach their children. Any Parent who relies on the President for a pep talk is failing as a parent.
But I am even more disappointed by parents who would pull their children out of school. Talk about teaching your children to be ignorant.
Let your children listen to the president. Show him respect. Then sit around the dinner table and discuss what he said. Good and bad. Discuss all of it.

179 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:24:12pm

re: #161 Shug

I have to ask myself:
If George Bush had given an address to America's school children, what would the reaction been of the right--approval

and the left--foaming at the mouth.

Let's not imitate the left

Shug - 1991 - Bush the Elder spoke to students - check the reaction. You are spot on.

180 voirdire  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:24:51pm

re: #171 Sharmuta

I think the point is you can be a part of the rational objectors to Obama's policies, or you can be a part of the opposition lousy with truthers, birthers, paulians, and other kooks and haters.

No. I think that's Nekama's point.

181 Bob Dillon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:24:57pm

re: #163 John Neverbend

See my #159 and they may find it more compelling and receptive when a suggestion or command is structured as positive.

182 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:25:08pm
As the president speaks, teachers can ask students to write down key ideas or phrases that are important or personally meaningful. Students could use a note‐taking graphic organizer such as a “cluster web;” or, students could record their thoughts on sticky notes. Younger children could draw pictures and write as appropriate.

What will become of all this paper?

183 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:25:31pm

re: #180 voirdire

No. I think that's Nekama's point.

No- Nekama seems to be saying he doesn't care who his allies are.

184 zeir  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:25:37pm

The speech is really anodyne. All presidents advance their own agendas. Remember Reagan invoking the Mesquite Indians at Bitburg?

185 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:25:42pm

re: #175 iceweasel

And then I will object, on the basis that William Ayers ghostwrote the memoir! And on the basis of the book Ayers had originally intended to write, but didn't!

Truth be told it was Bernardine Dohrn that did all of the writing for the alleged ghostwriter, William Ayers.

It was 666 pages long.

//

186 Nekama  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:25:49pm

re: #155 Nekama

Charles, that is my point. The sentence, when viewed in context of Obama's health insurance reform platform and to those who do not support it, was objectionable. And if it had remained, it would have been a real thing.

PIMF. Make that: if it had remained it would have been legitimately objectionable.
I shouldn't post while listening to my dog vomit.

187 Banner  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:25:53pm

re: #140 abbyadams

Umm no. And that was a stupid response. Do you really think that once a speech is written, it is never changed? Have you ever in your life given speeches? Haven't you ever had to change one because of current events or changes in the audience?

Didn't any of you study civic's or history? Politics? Public Speaking?

Now I know how Charles feels when he points out all of the unsavory alliances going on across the pond. I'm simply pointing out political truths and not making any claims about what the speech originally contained, just that logic and experience dictates that it would have been changed because the situtation changed.

Sheesh.

188 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:25:55pm

re: #182 MandyManners

It goes up on the fridge door for a month or so.

189 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:26:10pm

Fox News is pushing the sekrit indoctrination line HARD today.

Glenn Beck is going to reveal the horrible sekrit troof tomorrow.

190 zeir  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:26:18pm

Nekama means "revenge" in Hebrew. Revenge on whom, pray tell?

191 doubter4444  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:26:25pm

re: #24 Banner

Duh, with all of the outcry he changed the speech. Really, he's not stupid, and while I doubt his speech would have been what the more extreme people think it was going to be, I'm sure if you got your hands on a draft from before the outcry, you would have thought parts of it improper.

I mentioned days ago that this was going to be the response: Yes, of course he changed it, if it were not for us, he WOULD have tried to infiltrate the minds of our kids"
Fucking tools, they'll always think the worst and when it's pointed that they are flatly wrong, well, then, not really because up is down.

Then this gem from the same person:
re: #45 Banner

In the same way so many teachers and agencies are starting to push kids to tell their parents to conserve, recycle, and all the other green crap. And to report on their parents when they don't follow the rules.

What the fuck?
Now recycling and trying to reduce waste is a bad thing?
Some commie crap? And you little comm-interns are being being brainwashed to report you to the recycling committee for reeducation if you don't compost?
THAT IS NUTS!!
You have any idea how much trash is generated by a school of 500 kids?
Having sensible recycling plans is a GOOD thing. Teaching kids that resources are NOT infinite is a GOOD thing.
Teaching them to put bottle and trash in different bins for recycling is a GOOD thing, are you that fucking selfish that you think we have the right to do do what ever we want, whenever we want just because we are Americans, that by demographic accident we live here, now, that gives us the right to not even try to make the world a better place, a cleaner place for the rest of the world and our kids?

Do you throw out trash while driving?
I remember a littering campaign with the Big Indian... was that just green crap too?
Jesus H Christ, I just don't get it.

192 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:26:29pm

re: #182 MandyManners

What will become of all this paper?

The trees!

193 shimoda  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:26:36pm

I must say, as a foreigner (with a real life, FEMALE, SOCIAL DEMOCRAT) as president that I would be mighty proud if my president made such a speech to our children on their first day in school.

But maybe that i just me.

194 John Neverbend  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:26:40pm

re: #181 Bobibutu

See my #159 and they may find it more compelling and receptive when a suggestion or command is structured as positive.

Read it, tried it many times in the past, will continue to try it now and in the future.

195 HelloDare  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:26:50pm

Meanwhile:

Former Rep. Joseph Kennedy Opts Against Campaign for Late Uncle's Senate Seat

196 SasquatchOnSteroids  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:27:02pm

re: #172 MandyManners

I have a problem with this. We are their employers. Why not instruct the students about how to tell them what we want them to hear? Why what we have to say is "important"?

Good point. To be discussed.

197 Bob Dillon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:27:02pm

re: #167 reine.de.tout

But some kids don't, and this is the honest truth. They need to hear it from somebody of importance.

True - and I still believe that the primary responsibility is with the parents which all to many abdicate to others.

198 Wendya  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:27:08pm

re: #159 Bobibutu

In all due respect - it would be better for them to hear it and experience it by example from their parents.

In a perfect world that's exactly what would happen. Unfortunately, that's not the reality.

199 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:27:33pm

re: #174 Charles

Nobody seems to care that they're supporting really bad people and groups.

By and large those that attend don't know who the organizers are. They are there for the concept and the protest, not 'in support" of some "group"

200 rightymouse  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:27:35pm

re: #145 LudwigVanQuixote

Did you read this? What in it is useless? What kind of private school could possibly consider these thoughts and ideals, the essence of what should be American ideals of education, useless?

Is this some private academy that teaches creationism or that the Germans were really misunderstood in the 30's?

I am not writing that as useless invective. What kind of school that likes education at all, could find any fault in those remarks?

201 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:27:54pm

re: #159 Bobibutu

In all due respect - it would be better for them to hear it and experience it by example from their parents.

In the fantasy world that you live in, every child has two parents present in the home, the parents are both model parents and model citizens, and everyone goes to church on Sunday.

In the real world, hundreds of thousand of young men and women in this country come from dysfunctional homes, have one parent present if they're lucky, live in grinding poverty and are often raising themselves. They're trying to find a reason to stay in school and stick it out. And they have nobody in their lives who cares enough about them to motivate them.

Get real, please.

202 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:28:02pm

re: #190 zeir

Nekama means "revenge" in Hebrew. Revenge on whom, pray tell?

Trolls?

203 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:28:12pm

re: #189 Charles

Fox News is pushing the sekrit indoctrination line HARD today.

Glenn Beck is going to reveal the horrible sekrit troof tomorrow.

It won't ever end. It's a self-fulfilling cycle which is part of the Conservative-Media-Industrial-Complex.

//

204 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:28:27pm

re: #164 debutaunt

useing loaded leftist terms like wingnut

too biased did not read or T.BDNR

just decided not to read a couple of posters as nothing they post is new to me and is totally expected

205 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:28:53pm

re: #170 rightymouse

Why? Because the teachers are doing such a crappy job on their own?

Puleeze.
Idiot.

206 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:29:02pm

re: #188 jaunte

It goes up on the fridge door for a month or so.

Or, the compost heap.

207 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:29:09pm

re: #197 Bobibutu

True - and I still believe that the primary responsibility is with the parents which all to many abdicate to others.

There's nothing wrong with the message being reinforced by others- figures kids look up to like athletes, actors, or the President.

If Payton Manning was giving this speech tomorrow on behalf of the NFL- would anyone complain?

208 NukeAtomrod  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:29:09pm

Fine. I give up. I was just trying to explain the origins of this stupid controversy. If everyone wants to believe it was totally made up out of thin air by a cabal of fanatic Republican wingnuts, so be it. I'll just wait for the next topic.

209 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:29:15pm

re: #162 reine.de.tout

I would be happy with some honest-to-goodness relevant and non-idiotic leader to come forward in the current opposition party.

I'm no great Romney fan, but compared to anyone else the Republicans could run for President, he is far and away the best, and I'd prefer him to Obama by a great margin as well.
I wonder how bad his religion would really hurt him. I think most citizens of the US don't have a problem with it, but a lot of the GOP faithful do.

210 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:29:34pm

re: #184 zeir

The speech is really anodyne. All presidents advance their own agendas. Remember Reagan invoking the Mesquite Indians at Bitburg?

Did Peggy Noonan write that one?

211 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:29:49pm

re: #189 Charles

Fox News is pushing the sekrit indoctrination line HARD today.

Glenn Beck is going to reveal the horrible sekrit troof tomorrow.

Even with this in hand? This is utter evil to try to say a single bad thing about this speech. Now, all sorts of "conservative" parents are telling their kids that if Obama says it, it is evil, and low and behold Obama is saying that getting a real education is your worthwhile personal responsibility. So what, the parents are teaching their kids the opposite values of that?

Why would Fox want stupid American... Oh yes...

Educated people wouldn't watch Fox.

212 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:30:02pm

re: #201 Irish Rose

In the fantasy world that you live in, every child has two parents present in the home, the parents are both model parents and model citizens, and everyone goes to church on Sunday.

In the real world, hundreds of thousand of young men and women in this country come from dysfunctional homes, have one parent present if they're lucky, live in grinding poverty and are often raising themselves. They're trying to find a reason to stay in school and stick it out. And they have nobody in their lives who cares enough about them to motivate them.

Get real, please.

Well, also, a kid with present parents giving him/her all the right messages still can stand to hear it again from other people. Kids learn by having the same messages endlessly repeated at them.

Pick up after yourself. Pick up after yourself...

213 Digital Display  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:30:13pm

re: #159 Bobibutu

In all due respect - it would be better for them to hear it and experience it by example from their parents.

With all due respect...In a perfect world kids would be inspired by their parents...We expose our children to leaders, Teachers, Writers, Musicians etc so they grow as people...and become well rounded citizens.
I met Jesse Owens when I was a little kid...Who do you think I was thinking of when I was running up and down the Stairs in the High School Gym? I wonder how many gallons of sweat I poured out over a 30 minute speech and a Autograph...Kids need inspiration..I would be proud to have the President of the United States speak to my Child.. I don't give damn what party he comes from...Neither should you

214 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:30:14pm

Prediction: Glenn Beck will echo Ed Morrissey's "count up the words ... it proves he's a narcissistic commie!" line.

215 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:30:23pm

re: #201 Irish Rose

In the real world, hundreds of thousand of young men and women in this country come from dysfunctional homes, have one parent present if they're lucky, live in grinding poverty and are often raising themselves. They're trying to find a reason to stay in school and stick it out. And they have nobody in their lives who cares enough about them to motivate them.

For this reason alone, we should all be congratulating any of our political leaders who take the time to praise hard work, innovation and excellence in a speech to students whose lives might be affected in some small way.

216 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:30:39pm

re: #162 reine.de.tout

I would be happy with some honest-to-goodness relevant and non-idiotic leader to come forward in the current opposition party.

I totally agree. It's mindboggling and frustrating. Although I'm on the left, I'm an independent and I want to see a good conservative party. I want to see intelligent and informed debate and criticism. I dislike the Democratic Party only slightly less than I do the Republican party, but what I dislike most of all is having one party in control of everything, no matter who it is. And I loathe the mess the GOP has descended into. They're driving away all the centrists, moderates, independents, and conservatives-- and reasonable right leaning people. There's just no way I can vote for any of them and I don't like that. And I don't even see any leaders on the horizon either who can take back the GOP and restore it to sanity.

217 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:30:43pm

re: #193 shimoda

I must say, as a foreigner (with a real life, FEMALE, SOCIAL DEMOCRAT) as president that I would be mighty proud if my president made such a speech to our children on their first day in school.

But maybe that i just me.

No not just you. The only people who could possibly object to this speech for any reason are stupid.

218 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:31:07pm

re: #190 zeir

it is also a Hebrew first name and some people use Hebrew names with out knowing there original meaning

219 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:31:09pm

re: #204 yochanan

useing loaded leftist terms like wingnut

too biased did not read or T.BDNR

just decided not to read a couple of posters as nothing they post is new to me and is totally expected

Yeah, that term became so overused it started to aggravate a bit.

220 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:31:14pm

re: #209 Kosh's Shadow

I'm no great Romney fan, but compared to anyone else the Republicans could run for President, he is far and away the best, and I'd prefer him to Obama by a great margin as well.
I wonder how bad his religion would really hurt him. I think most citizens of the US don't have a problem with it, but a lot of the GOP faithful do.

It troubles me that apparently it is still such a big deal for a politician to be a Mormon.

221 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:31:24pm

re: #195 HelloDare

Meanwhile:

Former Rep. Joseph Kennedy Opts Against Campaign for Late Uncle's Senate Seat

Good. I don't want that Chavez-loving jerk in government.

We still don't know who the Republicans could run. It turns out Curt Schilling is "unenrolled" (not registered to any party) and could only run as an independent, according to the Boston Herald.

222 lincolntf  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:31:34pm

re: #195 HelloDare

Wow! Sometimes the Kennedys are actually smart enough to avoid huge media investigations into their lives/finances. This one would have been a real doozy. I could hear the wheels grinding in Howie Carr's head the moment it was announced that Joe was considering.

223 rightymouse  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:31:36pm

re: #165 avanti

Sorry to hear you disagree with the POTUS's message.


My son's school doesn't need to hear from Obama to know the right thing to do for the kids. Thanks.

224 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:31:48pm

re: #215 jaunte

For this reason alone, we should all be congratulating any of our political leaders who take the time to praise hard work, innovation and excellence in a speech to students whose lives might be affected in some small way.

Often times- it's small gestures that can end up meaning a lot.

225 Banner  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:31:52pm

re: #191 doubter4444

Let me guess, you're under 30 right?

Back during the height of the 'war on drugs' some schools started programs for students to out their parents or any family members, friends, etc, who were doing drugs. Some kids did it. There was a rather large outcry.

History has a tendency to repeat.

226 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:32:22pm

re: #192 debutaunt

The trees!

Let's make Weyerhauser richer.

227 Shug  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:33:00pm
I expect you to get serious this year. I expect you to put your best effort into everything you do. I expect great things from each of you. So don't let us down - don't let your family or your country or yourself down. Make us all proud. I know you can do it.

I think this is just awesome.
How many inner city kids are going straight to nowhere. If he can inspire just one kid to stay in school and stay out of jail, then good for him.
Much as I hate his politics, I still think he is making a difference in minority kids who have no father figure and no role model aside from sports stars.

I think he ought to do more stuff like this

228 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:33:28pm

re: #213 HoosierHoops

With all due respect...In a perfect world kids would be inspired by their parents...We expose our children to leaders, Teachers, Writers, Musicians etc so they grow as people...and become well rounded citizens.
I met Jesse Owens when I was a little kid...Who do you think I was thinking of when I was running up and down the Stairs in the High School Gym? I wonder how many gallons of sweat I poured out over a 30 minute speech and a Autograph...Kids need inspiration..I would be proud to have the President of the United States speak to my Child.. I don't give damn what party he comes from...Neither should you

My freshmen read a novel set in Germany during the thirties and early forties. One of the characters is a little boy, living in a suburb of Munich under the Nazi regime, who is an insane Jesse Owens fan (yes, there are some issues there). Owens actually inspires the kid to some fairly intense personal heroism.

Just mentioning.

229 eneri  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:33:29pm

re: #15 mikey_dallas

GWBush had the same thing.

230 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:33:43pm

re: #226 MandyManners

Let's make Weyerhauser richer.

Works for me. My 401K plan has some of their stock!

231 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:33:45pm

re: #211 LudwigVanQuixote

Even with this in hand? This is utter evil to try to say a single bad thing about this speech. Now, all sorts of "conservative" parents are telling their kids that if Obama says it, it is evil, and low and behold Obama is saying that getting a real education is your worthwhile personal responsibility. So what, the parents are teaching their kids the opposite values of that?

Why would Fox want stupid American... Oh yes...

Educated people wouldn't watch Fox.

i fr'get only edumcated peapple read the new york times.

232 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:33:55pm

re: #214 Charles

Prediction: Glenn Beck will echo Ed Morrissey's "count up the words ... it proves he's a narcissistic commie!" line.

Further prediction: Glnn Bck will also add word counts for the words "america", "freedom", "liberty" and "democracy", and compare them to the words "I" and "me".

This isn't even a new smear. For a while the moronosphere was circulating rumours like "Obama has never used the words freedom or democracy in a speech!" (false, of course) and someone like O'Reilly did a word count too. I forget who. I'll see if I can dig it up.

233 avanti  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:33:58pm

re: #223 rightymouse

My son's school doesn't need to hear from Obama to know the right thing to do for the kids. Thanks.

Than your son is more fortunate then some and I'm glad he's in a great school.

234 jamgarr  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:34:00pm

re: #190 zeir

Nekama means "revenge" in Hebrew. Revenge on whom, pray tell?

Trolls!

/Nekama the Troll Hammer!

235 Bloodnok  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:34:09pm

re: #219 debutaunt

Yeah, that term became so overused it started to aggravate a bit.

If only the moonbat pinko Obot commie droolers knew the right didn't use "loaded terms". What a wonderful world it would be.

/

236 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:34:12pm

re: #196 SasquatchOnSteroids

Good point. To be discussed.

Why do students in elementary school need to be told to listen to officials, that what they have to say is important? Isn't filtering that message the job of the parents? It'll be cold day in hell before I give politicians direct access to The Kid at his age.

237 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:34:25pm

This is the promo that just ran on Fox News:

[A picture of Obama...]

SUPERINTENDENT ... in chief?

Obama calls on students to respond to his policies!

Is the president pushing a hidden agenda onto America's youth?

[Picture of helpless, innocent wide-eyed kids...]

[Picture of Glenn Beck waving his hands around...]

Glenn UNCOVERS THE TRUTH!

Tuesday, "Indoctrinating Students" ... only on Beck!

238 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:34:35pm

re: #218 yochanan

it is also a Hebrew first name and some people use Hebrew names with out knowing there original meaning

Nekama? I know people named Nechama, but is Nekama used as a given name?

239 Wendya  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:34:45pm

re: #216 iceweasel

They're driving away all the centrists, moderates, independents, and conservatives-- and reasonable right leaning people.

This is not true. Those groups are abandoning the left. Whether or not that will translate to GOP seats in 2010 will depend on the republican leadership articulating a path of their own, not talk show hosts or bloggers.

240 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:34:47pm

I wonder just how long it will take for some over-the-top evangelical or dominionist organization masquerading as a "family advocacy" group will seriously complain about references to "wizards and witches" in the speech. In fact if it does not happen, I'll be floored.

241 Shug  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:34:54pm

re: #237 Charles


seriously?

groan

242 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:35:00pm

re: #230 sattv4u2

Works for me. My 401K plan has some of their stock!

YOU SERIAL TREE KILLER!

243 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:35:18pm

re: #237 Charles

This is the promo that just ran on Fox News:

Oh brother. Fox News sucks.

244 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:35:20pm

re: #237 Charles

Tuesday, "Indoctrinating Students" ... only on Beck!

If that were "ONLY" true!

245 shimoda  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:35:47pm

re: #156 SanFranciscoZionist

It's not dead, it's just resting!

This is an EX intellectual honesty

246 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:35:47pm

re: #227 Shug

I think this is just awesome.
How many inner city kids are going straight to nowhere. If he can inspire just one kid to stay in school and stay out of jail, then good for him.
Much as I hate his politics, I still think he is making a difference in minority kids who have no father figure and no role model aside from sports stars.

I think he ought to do more stuff like this

Wish I had more than one upding.

247 shiplord kirel  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:35:53pm

re: #41 Charles

There you go -- he changed it! He removed the socialism! It's all so clear! Why didn't I see it?

Three cheers to the right wing blogs for saving us from Obama!

Hah! It was pressure from right-thinking Americans that caused Obama to remove this passage, recovered with the rest of the original draft from the dumpsters behind ACORN World HQ:

Now, children, when you see monkeys at the zoo or, preferably, during your volunteer service in Venezuela, just remember that they are your little cousins, since we are all descended from them by a process called "evolution." Think about these little cousins in the trees and what you can do to protect them from the evil monster called Global Warming.
Also, don't forget to insist that your parents allow you to get your shots. If your parents don't understand, just let us know through our special Whitehouse e-mail line, kidsnitch@whitehouse.gov, and we will send some nice ACORN people out to help you convince them.

248 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:35:54pm

re: #215 jaunte

For this reason alone, we should all be congratulating any of our political leaders who take the time to praise hard work, innovation and excellence in a speech to students whose lives might be affected in some small way.

Amen.

249 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:35:57pm

re: #237 Charles

What will he do first: gloat about Van Jones or rant and rave about this?

250 Formercorpsman  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:36:09pm

re: #161 Shug

I have 3 kids in public school. I have no plans to pull them out that day for this speech. As well, I think the hyperventilation leading up to this has gone overboard.

In a nutshell, I think the idea of having public figures visible to the future generation is not a bad idea. Politics has always been a dirty game, but anymore it has become like Jerry Springer in a 24 hour news cycle.

The divide will never go away. It is only going to get worse. Do I think he will say anything truly rising to the level of the boogie man? No.

It is a tough sell though, when the pace has been set for folks who hold serious reservations about his political ideology seeing videos once on his campaign website supposedly involving the spontaneous harmonizing of 22 kids singing for change.

That was creepy.

251 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:36:11pm

re: #242 MandyManners

YOU SERIAL TREE KILLER!

It's worse than you know.

I just bought a new weed whacker!

252 John Neverbend  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:36:22pm

re: #145 LudwigVanQuixote

What kind of school that likes education at all, could find any fault in those remarks?

Very likely none. On the other hand, he does mention the fact that science is about knowledge and problem-solving which will anger ID proponents whose "science" is about ignorance and obfuscation. Oh, and then he went and mentioned vaccines in a positive light.

253 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:36:23pm

re: #238 SanFranciscoZionist

transliterations of hebrew names are all over the place in english spellings

254 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:36:32pm

re: #247 shiplord kirel

Hey! How are you? How's the leg?

255 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:36:32pm

re: #235 Bloodnok

If only the moonbat pinko Obot commie droolers knew the right didn't use "loaded terms". What a wonderful world it would be.

/

I find that terms used endlessly lose their impact. You?

256 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:36:40pm

re: #227 Shug

I think this is just awesome.
How many inner city kids are going straight to nowhere. If he can inspire just one kid to stay in school and stay out of jail, then good for him.
Much as I hate his politics, I still think he is making a difference in minority kids who have no father figure and no role model aside from sports stars.

I think he ought to do more stuff like this

Exactly, Shug. I'm actually touched by this speech- it's exactly what the kids should hear and I hope this becomes a traditional thing for all Presidents to do in the future.

257 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:36:52pm

re: #231 yochanan

i fr'get only edumcated peapple read the new york times.

So you think that lying propaganda about a very positive and needed thing serves this nation better than actually encouraging kids to do well in school?

One tribe member to another,

"We must accept the truth no matter what it's source."

If you don't take the Rambam as an authority, then how about Hashem?

"Do not bear false witness."

258 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:37:09pm

re: #227 Shug


Much as I hate his politics, I still think he is making a difference in minority kids who have no father figure and no role model aside from sports stars.

And also kids who do have father figures and role models. I've had a number of black men whose children I teach tell me that Obama's presidency has been a real inspiration for their sons and daughters.

259 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:37:29pm

re: #251 sattv4u2

It's worse than you know.

I just bought a new weed whacker!

Is that what you kids are calling it nowadays?

260 zeir  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:38:00pm

I've also never known anybody named Nekama. I think of it as more like "El Nakam" and so forth.

261 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:38:05pm

It's a GREAT SPEECH, people. Read it!

I applaud Obama for this. It's exactly what school children need to hear.

262 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:38:15pm

liberal bias runs all the way through american education system of course liberals would not see it that way.

263 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:38:20pm

re: #240 ArchangelMichael

I wonder just how long it will take for some over-the-top evangelical or dominionist organization masquerading as a "family advocacy" group will seriously complain about references to "wizards and witches" in the speech. In fact if it does not happen, I'll be floored.

Oh, it will happen.

264 Bob Dillon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:38:38pm

re: #194 John Neverbend

Read it, tried it many times in the past, will continue to try it now and in the future.

Choices with consequences work well.

They get to choose one or the other.

i.e., I really need for you to pick up your clothes rather than leaving them on the floor of you room.

If left there I will remove them and you will no longer have access to them.

Kids may test you. Follow thru without any other discussion. After a few weeks and no clean clothes to wear to school most will get it and choose to make the change out of pure peer embarrassment.

Constant nagging does not work.

265 Darth Bubba  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:38:46pm

OT, but interesting.

Liberal blogger Jane Hamsher:

"Now [Van Jones] been thrown under the bus by the White House for signing his name to a petition expressing something that 35% of all Democrats believed as of 2007 -- that George Bush knew in advance about the attacks of 9/11."

[Link: campaignsilo.firedoglake.com...]

266 NukeAtomrod  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:38:51pm

re: #209 Kosh's Shadow

I'm no great Romney fan, but compared to anyone else the Republicans could run for President, he is far and away the best, and I'd prefer him to Obama by a great margin as well.
I wonder how bad his religion would really hurt him. I think most citizens of the US don't have a problem with it, but a lot of the GOP faithful do.

Huckabee used it to great advantage. His support was almost exclusively from evangelicals and fundamentalists. He made many subtle statements to convey the message, "Vote for me because, I'm not a Mormon." Unfortunately, religious discrimination is still alive and well in this country.

267 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:38:56pm

re: #262 yochanan

"Finish the work" is a conservative value.

268 shiplord kirel  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:39:13pm

re: #254 MandyManners

Hey! How are you? How's the leg?

Thanks for asking. It hurts some but I am up and around, having survived an attack by a deranged slasher (myself).

269 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:39:22pm

re: #245 shimoda

This is an EX intellectual honesty

It's pining for the fjords!

270 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:39:36pm

re: #262 yochanan

liberal bias runs all the way through american education system of course liberals would not see it that way.

Please respond to my 257. Going and being anti truth, by supporting false reports from about the speech, and anti education is chillul Hashem.

271 Nekama  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:39:48pm

re: #174 Charles

But I did not ever "indict" all tea party protesters. Not once.

The reality is that there are very serious problems with the organizers of the tea parties. They're almost all connected to Ron Paul, and if you start digging you very quickly find links to even worse groups like the John Birch Society.

I realize that it doesn't make me popular to try to point this out, but who else is doing it? Nobody seems to care that they're supporting and empowering really bad people and groups. They just want to look the other way and pretend there's nothing wrong.

My perception is that a previous post referred to those protesting Van Jones sketchy connection to Truthers were somehow hypocrites if they attended the Jason Rink promoted event.

And I agree with pointing out the connections and commend you for doing so. I disagree with the inference that protests against Obama are less than legitimate because some of the organizers and attendees are unsavory.

If we had to agree with everything that everyone we do things with believes, then we'd spend a lot of time alone. Galvanizing protest involves getting people of divergent opinions to get together on an unrelated issue. They might likely be on completely opposite sides on other issues.

I understand Sharmuta's point elswhere that the tent isn't big enough for haters and nazis. I'm not at the protests to join in supporting their beliefs. I'm there to protest the direction Obama is directing our country.

272 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:40:02pm

re: #261 Charles

It's a GREAT SPEECH, people. Read it!

I applaud Obama for this. It's exactly what school children need to hear.

Did you see the recent update from Ed?

56 iterations of “I”
19 iterations of “school”
10 iterations of “education”
8 iterations of “responsibility”
7 iterations of “country”
5 iterations each of “parents”, “teachers”
3 iterations of “nation”

In other words, Barack Obama referenced himself more than school, education, responsibility, country/nation, parents, and teachers combined. And to think that people accused Obama of self-promotion!

We're still waiting for the astrologists to look at the speech over at Hot Air.

273 Randall Gross  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:40:29pm

While Glen and others are frothing about this, congress will be restarting, and the agenda is packed. It's really counterproductive to focus on non-essentials at a point when we are 14 mo. out from congressional elections. We are a small army behind enemy lines - if we don't pick battles that we can win and ones which are worth fighting then we are surely doomed in November 2010.

274 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:41:01pm

re: #262 yochanan

liberal bias runs all the way through american education system of course liberals would not see it that way.

So let some dang conservatives come and work in education. We don't bite.

275 rightymouse  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:41:54pm

re: #205 Irish Rose

Puleeze.
Idiot.


You can't even back up your own support of Obama and I'm an idiot?

276 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:42:10pm

re: #272 Gus 802

Did you see the recent update from Ed?

56 iterations of “I”
19 iterations of “school”
10 iterations of “education”
8 iterations of “responsibility”
7 iterations of “country”
5 iterations each of “parents”, “teachers”
3 iterations of “nation”

In other words, Barack Obama referenced himself more than school, education, responsibility, country/nation, parents, and teachers combined. And to think that people accused Obama of self-promotion!

We're still waiting for the astrologists to look at the speech over at Hot Air.

Good grief. That's so insane I almost can't believe it.

277 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:42:13pm

If there is one point the right seems willing to concede to Obama- it's that he gives great speeches. And on this speech to America's school children- he'll deliver his best speech to date.

278 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:42:23pm

re: #270 LudwigVanQuixote

frankly enough already
t.b.d.n.r.

279 John Neverbend  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:42:34pm

re: #264 Bobibutu

Choices with consequences work well...

Yes, my wife and I are better at this than you might think from my earlier, semi-serious comments.

280 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:43:02pm

Obama always was good at talking (especially, with TOTUS support).

Doing? Not so much.

We elected a Speechgiver In Chief.

281 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:43:05pm

re: #255 debutaunt

I find that terms used endlessly lose their impact.

Then you should have no problem ignoring it. Unless you'd like us all to become more creative in coining ever fresher neologisms for the nuts on the right?

I could do that, you know, but I suspect you still won't like it. ;)

282 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:43:06pm

re: #274 SanFranciscoZionist

So let some dang conservatives come and work in education. We don't bite.

Yes, but they do, when elected to school boards. There are no Dems doing the ID thing.

283 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:43:18pm

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to be critical of Barack Obama.
But this isn't one of them.

It's a great speech, and I hope that our Nations' children take it to heart.

284 Wendya  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:43:20pm

re: #272 Gus 802

8 iterations of “responsibility”

To his credit, that's 8 more times than I would expect from the average democrat.

This is not the typical, here's what we're going to do for you, here's what we're going to give you speech.

285 Bloodnok  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:43:21pm

re: #255 debutaunt

I find that terms used endlessly lose their impact. You?

I can cope. There are wingnuts and there are moonbats. Sure beats saying "people on the outermost fringe of the left/right" every time. Brevity is good.

286 shimoda  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:43:39pm

re: #269 SanFranciscoZionist

It's pining for the fjords!

I tell you, if that intellectual honesty was not bound by the Constitution it would nozzle up to those bars and WOOOM

287 Chekote  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:43:51pm

Well here are the official orders from Beck's per Tweeter:

Watch Dogs: FIND EVERYTHING YOU CAN ON CASS SUNSTEIN, MARK LLOYD AND CAROL BROWNER. Do not link before burning to disc.

288 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:43:51pm

re: #271 Nekama

My perception is that a previous post referred to those protesting Van Jones sketchy connection to Truthers were somehow hypocrites if they attended the Jason Rink promoted event.

This is what I wrote:

I won’t be holding my breath waiting for the same bloggers who are screaming for Van Jones’ head to denounce the Cincinnati Tea Party — even though one of the main organizers is a self-admitted 9/11 Truther. But the hypocrisy is rather stunning.

How does that "indict" all tea party attendees? It specifically calls out the BLOGGERS who are promoting the Truther claims.

289 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:44:02pm

re: #275 rightymouse

You can't even back up your own support of Obama and I'm an idiot?

Yes.

290 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:44:10pm

re: #281 iceweasel

Then you should have no problem ignoring it. Unless you'd like us all to become more creative in coining ever fresher neologisms for the nuts on the right?

I could do that, you know, but I suspect you still won't like it. ;)

Any replacement for wingnut will be appreciated.

291 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:44:31pm

re: #284 Wendya

To his credit, that's 8 more times than I would expect from the average democrat.

This is not the typical, here's what we're going to do for you, here's what we're going to give you speech.

Yeah, I thought it would have been a little extra special if he add "personal" for "personal responsibility." Of course that's what he means.

292 Chekote  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:44:39pm

re: #276 Charles

re: #272 Gus 802


Good grief. That's so insane I almost can't believe it.

Echos of Farrakhan's speech at the Million Men March.

293 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:44:44pm

re: #282 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, but they do, when elected to school boards. There are no Dems doing the ID thing.

I said 'work' in education.

///;)

294 shiplord kirel  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:44:48pm

NONE of the Lubbock area schools will show the speech to students live, btw.

Few Lubbock and South Plains students will be watching the live version of President Barack Obama's address to American students Tuesday, but many of them will have the opportunity to watch a recorded version of it later.

The president plans to talk directly to students across the country Tuesday at 11 a.m. CDT on the importance of taking responsibility for their education, challenging them to set goals and doing everything they can to succeed, according to the Web site whitehouse.gov.

However, the address has generated a controversy, with some parents objecting to the involvement of children into something they consider to be political.

Officials of Lubbock, Frenship, Lubbock-Cooper and Roosevelt independent school districts have all decided against showing the live version of the message at school Tuesday.

295 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:44:52pm

re: #271 Nekama

But now that you know these protests are being organized by kooks- don't you feel attending their rallies might be legitimizing them?

296 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:45:20pm

re: #281 iceweasel

Then you should have no problem ignoring it. Unless you'd like us all to become more creative in coining ever fresher neologisms for the nuts on the right?

I could do that, you know, but I suspect you still won't like it. ;)

Dopeler effect (n): The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when
> they come at you rapidly.

297 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:45:23pm

tell me how reading howard zinn book is education on anything

tell me at the college level in liberal arts depts there are few in any profs to the right of center. in the fine arts every school i went to there weren't any cons. profs.

298 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:45:33pm

re: #268 shiplord kirel

Thanks for asking. It hurts some but I am up and around, having survived an attack by a deranged slasher (myself).

Just don't run with that box-cutter!

299 Fenris  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:45:52pm

I can't help myself; I love that "Exposing Satanism" site. It links directly to Jew Watch.

300 sagehen  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:46:23pm

re: #227 Shug

I think this is just awesome.
How many inner city kids are going straight to nowhere. If he can inspire just one kid to stay in school and stay out of jail, then good for him.
Much as I hate his politics, I still think he is making a difference in minority kids who have no father figure and no role model aside from sports stars.

Huge difference. Just huge. I expected some sort of subtle inspirational effect, but I've been stunned by the size of it.

The library I go to has been jampacked with black teenagers all summer. Groups of them making up history rhymes to help each other remember names and dates and the order of things, quizzing each other on SAT words, using sticks and silly putty to show each other chemistry stuff.

And the group of dancers I sometimes throw a few bucks to in the subway, they told me that the new GI Bill has convinced them to join the military when they're old enough. A year ago, they'd told me they were disheartened by the realization that none of them would qualify for athletic scholarships, but now they're highly energized and motivated about their futures.

301 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:46:40pm

re: #261 Charles

It's a GREAT SPEECH, people. Read it!

No. I have read the speech Obama really wanted to make, the one that exists only in my head, and I am shocked and appalled at his sinister plans to make America a socialist nation and declare Satanism our official religion and LOLcatz our official language.
Wake up people! I don't even recognise America anymore, now that Obama has sold the letter C to China to fund health care! Ameria?? What the hell is that?!?!

/Glenn Bek, on Fox News tomorrow.

302 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:46:56pm

This just in! Word count for Bush II's speech to students in 1991!

87 the
85 you
72 to
52 and
51 a
35 of
32 in
31 your
23 that
23 school
22 it
22 i

//the

303 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:47:16pm

re: #278 yochanan

frankly enough already
t.b.d.n.r.

And what does that mean? You can not claim that it is a good thing to support lies. Fox is lying about the speech.

You can not claim it is good to keep people uneducated. Calling this speech bad things has the effect of turning kids away from school.

"Do not put a stumbling block before the blind."

While we are at it, what about the Avos about the duty to teach one's children a trade and even to swim?

NO, you do not get to bash this speech. I would not pick on you this way, if you didn't have an Israeli flag on your nic, and a Hebrew name for it.

304 zeir  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:47:24pm

re: #270 LudwigVanQuixote

frankly enough already
t.b.d.n.r.

Yochana,

He's right, you know.

305 John Neverbend  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:47:43pm

re: #276 Charles

Good grief. That's so insane I almost can't believe it.

I cut out the speech and wrapped it around a hyperboloidal surface. Then, I read every 7th letter starting 15 letters into the 18th line. There seems to be a hidden message saying "Guinness is good for you."

306 Fenris  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:48:08pm

It's a tad ironic, using Harry Potter in a speech about education, considering he dropped out in his seventh year.

307 Shug  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:48:12pm

re: #305 John Neverbend

I cut out the speech and wrapped it around a hyperboloidal surface. Then, I read every 7th letter starting 15 letters into the 18th line. There seems to be a hidden message saying "Guinness is good for you."

Now that's change I can believe in

308 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:48:20pm

Are there programs that count selected words in a text?

309 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:48:20pm

re: #274 SanFranciscoZionist

secularism has a bias as well even here. sorry to say.

in the fine arts YOU CAN FORGET ABOUT GETTING A BALANCED EDUCATION.

310 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:49:02pm

re: #308 MandyManners

Are there programs that count selected words in a text?

Your search function (Ctrl-f) can give you a word count.

311 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:49:17pm

re: #305 John Neverbend

I cut out the speech and wrapped it around a hyperboloidal surface. Then, I read every 7th letter starting 15 letters into the 18th line. There seems to be a hidden message saying "Guinness is good for you."

Guinness! That's Irish!

Check for possible connection with the Irish Republican Army (IRA), stat!

//

312 MacDuff  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:49:24pm

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I feel oh so smug and self satisfied being able to withstand a president, not of my party or political pursuasion, deliver a positive speech to school children, without breaking out into a cold sweat and without drooling whatsoever! Not a drop! Not only that, my knuckles haven't touched the floor - not once!

Does this mean that it's possible, just possible, that a right-of-center thinker can be a person of reason?

313 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:49:32pm

re: #310 Sharmuta

Your search function (Ctrl-f) can give you a word count.

I have a search function?

314 Nekama  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:49:36pm

re: #295 Sharmuta

But now that you know these protests are being organized by kooks- don't you feel attending their rallies might be legitimizing them?

No. They are unrelated issues. For a real life, recent local example, when my community gave an award to a soldier for his service to our country we did so for his service. His championing Ron Paul's candidacy was of no import.

315 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:49:52pm

re: #308 MandyManners

Are there programs that count selected words in a text?

Try this:

[Link: www.writewords.org.uk...]

316 FrogMarch  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:50:02pm

re: #144 Wendya

The teachers unions will not stand for it.

The problem is - a voucher program cannot be allowed to work.

317 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:50:04pm

re: #310 Sharmuta

Your search function (Ctrl-f) can give you a word count.

Oh jeez. I've been using the Ctrl-F function all wrong.

318 midwestgak  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:50:21pm

re: #308 MandyManners

Are there programs that count selected words in a text?

Yes. You used each word in that sentence once. /

319 UncleRancher  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:50:24pm

Change anyone?

Youtube Video
320 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:50:31pm

Wouldn't ie be great if some prominent GOP politician came out and thanked President Obama for caring enough about kids to want to inspire them? I'm not being a polyanna about this, because if there is something he says to the kids that is deserving of criticism, it's so much better to hear it before condemning it.

321 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:50:41pm

I was a big fan of No Child Left Behind, because I thought there was finally going to be some accountability in public education. And I figured that if it bothers the NEA, it must be good.

But the dropout rate is really bad.

One, New Mexico’s drop-out problem seems most pronounced in urban places: In the state’s largest city, only 44 percent of Albuquerque Public Schools students graduate within four years.

Two, the achievement gap is still awfully wide: 68 percent of Anglo students graduated in 2006, while only 51 percent of Hispanic students and 49 percent of American Indian students graduated.

And three, there’s also a big gender gap: New Mexico girls were more likely to graduate from high school than boys — 61 percent of girls, compared with 53 percent of boys.

The nation’s graduation rate is about 70 percent.

I suspect some kids are being encouraged to quit in order to get the averages up. Unintended consequences, maybe. If the speech does anything to counter this, it is good. More is needed.

322 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:50:42pm

re: #303 LudwigVanQuixote

FRANKLY I AM TIRED OF YOUR BIASED ONE SIDED POSTS.
AND I AM NOT RESPONDING TO THEM ANY MORE.

323 Bob Dillon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:50:51pm

re: #279 John Neverbend

Yes, my wife and I are better at this than you might think from my earlier, semi-serious comments.

My comments were not meant to demean. They were from wanting to share from my experience and others whom I had learned from that demonstrated easier and effective ways of behavioral change.

324 Fenris  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:51:10pm

re: #309 yochanan

secularism has a bias as well even here. sorry to say.

in the fine arts YOU CAN FORGET ABOUT GETTING A BALANCED EDUCATION.

Fine arts major here. No argument there; the only balance you'll find in my field is measuring negative and positive space.

325 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:51:40pm

re: #314 Nekama

No. They are unrelated issues. For a real life, recent local example, when my community gave an award to a soldier for his service to our country we did so for his service. His championing Ron Paul's candidacy was of no import.

Would you go to a Cincinnati Tea Party now knowing the organizer is a paleo-con truther?

326 Shug  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:51:41pm

Dysfunction junction what's your function?

Counting up words and phrases and clauses

327 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:52:40pm

Well, I'll be. I've learned something new today.

328 doubter4444  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:52:43pm

re: #63 DrNaughty

The problem isn't the speech itself... per se. It is benign and if nothing else, it's too long for the kids to expect them to pay attention

What was ominous was the "supplementary materials" which was going to be distributed to the schools by the DOE.

THE STUPID BURNS

I am finding it hard to be nice about this stuff.

329 Bob Dillon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:52:53pm

re: #313 MandyManners

I have a search function?

Uh-oh ... now we're really gonna be in trouble.
/

330 Shug  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:53:06pm

re: #317 debutaunt

Oh jeez. I've been using the Ctrl-F function all wrong.

When Mandy hits Ctrl-F it types an F Bomb

331 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:53:07pm

re: #137 Banner

And now we have a new dance: The Butthurt Fivestep.

Step 1: Make a poorly reasoned right-of-center argument.

Step 2: Get called on your argument's failings by iceweasel, Ludwig, or Charles.

Step 3: Whine, insult and seeth instead of presenting a better argument.

Step 4: Repeat steps 1-3 until Charles boots your ass out.

Step 5: Register at LGF2.0 and proceed to whine, insult and seeth about how repressive Charles is being.

332 Nekama  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:53:24pm

re: #288 Charles

How does that "indict" all tea party attendees? It specifically calls out the BLOGGERS who are promoting the Truther claims.

My emphasis was on "to denounce the Cincinnati Tea Party", as if the attendees were somehow supporting Truthers by being there. That's how I read it.

333 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:53:44pm

re: #316 FrogMarch

The problem is - a voucher program cannot be allowed to work.

Didn't Congress ditch it or something similar in D.C.?

334 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:53:54pm

re: #324 fenrisdesigns

i remember one art history class were we got gay art, women's art, minority art. and that was about it so I asked what about JEWISH ART? you could have heard a pin drop.

335 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:54:08pm

re: #290 debutaunt

Any replacement for wingnut will be appreciated.

I prefer wingnut as it is not obscene. But for you, I'll add some new ones as well! Like Whingers, Wankers, and more.

336 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:54:48pm

re: #335 iceweasel

I prefer wingnut as it is not obscene. But for you, I'll add some new ones as well! Like Whingers, Wankers, and more.

I love British slang!

337 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:54:55pm

re: #322 yochanan

FRANKLY I AM TIRED OF YOUR BIASED ONE SIDED POSTS.
AND I AM NOT RESPONDING TO THEM ANY MORE.

The "biased one side" I am positing is the commandment to speak the truth and not bear false witness.

You do that by supporting lies about the speech.

The "biased one side" I am positing is the duty to educate one's children.

The "biased one side" I am positing is not my rules.

If you don't get that, then don't proclaim your Jewishness.

338 John Neverbend  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:55:00pm

re: #323 Bobibutu

My comments were not meant to demean. They were from wanting to share from my experience and others whom I had learned from that demonstrated easier and effective ways of behavioral change.

That's ok, I realized that. Otherwise, I would have told you to mind your own sodding business (or gone off in a sort of flounce).

339 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:55:04pm

re: #335 iceweasel

I prefer wingnut as it is not obscene. But for you, I'll add some new ones as well! Like Whingers, Wankers, and more.

Excellent. The word wingnut doesn't insult me. I just find it overused.

340 rightymouse  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:55:24pm

re: #289 Irish Rose

Yes.

So are you. Feel better now?

341 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:55:34pm

re: #332 Nekama

My emphasis was on "to denounce the Cincinnati Tea Party", as if the attendees were somehow supporting Truthers by being there. That's how I read it.

You are supporting the Truthers by being there. You're empowering them and legitimizing them. Sorry, I know you don't want to hear it, but if you go to events sponsored by Truthers, Paulians, and John Birchers, you're helping their cause.

342 UncleRancher  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:55:38pm

re: #330 Shug

When Mandy hits Ctrl-F it types an F Bomb

Funny.

343 MacDuff  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:55:50pm

re: #335 iceweasel

Whingers, Wankers, and more.

OH MY!

344 Fenris  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:55:58pm

re: #334 yochanan

i remember one art history class were we got gay art, women's art, minority art. and that was about it so I asked what about JEWISH ART? you could have heard a pin drop.

Jewish art? Don't we have the Hollywood for that?

345 zeir  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:56:11pm

re: #322 yochanan

What are you afraid of? Ludwig is right. You are setting a very bad example as a Jew, for all the scholarly and ethical reasons he cited.

346 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:56:12pm

re: #327 MandyManners

Well, I'll be. I've learned something new today.

Glad to help, Hon.

347 Nekama  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:56:25pm

re: #325 Sharmuta

Would you go to a Cincinnati Tea Party now knowing the organizer is a paleo-con truther?

Personally, I would. As I wrote earlier, I believe the attendees are there to protest the direction of our country under Obama, not to support the unrelated beliefs of the organizers.

If Rink was saying "Obama's taking us down the wrong road, AND 9-11 was an inside job", that would, of course, be different.

348 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:56:29pm

I have no problem with 'wingnut' as long as 'moonbat' is also acceptable.

In the interests of fairness and reciprocity, though, either both should be okay or neither should be okay.

349 Nekama  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:57:00pm

re: #341 Charles

You are supporting the Truthers by being there. You're empowering them and legitimizing them. Sorry, I know you don't want to hear it, but if you go to events sponsored by Truthers, Paulians, and John Birchers, you're helping their cause.

I respectfully disagree.

350 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:57:17pm

re: #322 yochanan

FRANKLY I AM TIRED OF YOUR BIASED ONE SIDED POSTS.
AND I AM NOT RESPONDING TO THEM ANY MORE.

re: #334 yochanan

i remember one art history class were we got gay art, women's art, minority art. and that was about it so I asked what about JEWISH ART? you could have heard a pin drop.


So you do see education as a Jewish value? Good, it's been that way for three thousand years.

351 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:57:32pm

re: #322 yochanan

FRANKLY I AM TIRED OF YOUR BIASED ONE SIDED POSTS.
AND I AM NOT RESPONDING TO THEM ANY MORE.

I AM TAKING MY BALL AND GOING HOME. YOU CAN TELL I'M NOT BITTER OR ANGRY BECAUSE I AM USING ALL CAPS TO PROVE IT.

Ludwig, 1. Yochanan, ...

352 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:57:39pm

re: #348 Salamantis

I have no problem with 'wingnut' as long as 'moonbat' is also acceptable.

In the interests of fairness and reciprocity, though, either both should be okay or neither should be okay.

There's always the all encompassing and non-partisan "dipshit" !

//

353 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:58:21pm

re: #336 MandyManners

I love British slang!

I do too. ;) Gobsmacked has long been one of my favourites.

354 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:58:40pm

re: #352 sattv4u2

There's always the all encompassing and non-partisan "dipshit" !

//

Pefect.

Dipshit or
Ripshit

355 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:58:40pm

re: #347 Nekama

If Rink was saying "Obama's taking us down the wrong road, AND 9-11 was an inside job", that would, of course, be different.

It's worse than that! He already says these things. And you don't care.

356 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:58:43pm

Just ran the speech through the word counter. Actually, Ed left out the other top words:

145 you
98 to
86 and
62 a
56 i
53 the
53 of
48 your

145 "you" far surpasses the "I"s in that speech. He references the students far more then himself.

357 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:59:02pm

re: #348 Salamantis

I have no problem with 'wingnut' as long as 'moonbat' is also acceptable.

In the interests of fairness and reciprocity, though, either both should be okay or neither should be okay.

Well, when I read or hear "wingnut" I get an image that is not altogether wholesome. But, that's just me.

358 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:59:07pm

i have not said anything intentional about his speech i could careless if he speaks to kids or not stop putting your biased words into my mouth.

please lud no more comments to or about me and i will return the favor.

359 John Neverbend  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:59:42pm

re: #353 iceweasel

I do too. ;) Gobsmacked has long been one of my favourites.

Where do you live? Your occasional use of "wanker" was a bit of a clue for me.

360 doubter4444  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 12:59:47pm

re: #80 opnion

Yeah, but that's different donchaknow? See BHO is enlightened & Bush Is
stoopid. Gettin that MBA & flyin a jet don't mean nuthin.

That's asinine.
The real pathetic thing about this are tools like you that are the "great equivalencers":
The other side did so we can to!
The way to look at this that the Democrats were wrong then.
Doing the same thing simply means that your protests over things the Dems did is hollow, because you are ready and willing to do the same, no matter if it make you look like an ass.
And gloating over this does.

361 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:00:04pm

and now for something completely different ...

[Link: espn.go.com...]

you're welcome

362 UncleRancher  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:00:06pm

rear-ended a car this morning.

So, there we were alongside the road and slowly the other driver got out of his car.

You know how sometimes you just get sooo stressed and little things just seem funny?

Yeah, well I couldn't believe it ... He was a DWARF!!!

He stormed over to my car, looked up at me, and shouted, 'I AM NOT HAPPY!!!'

So, I looked down at him and said, 'Well, then which one are you?'

And that's how the fight started ...

363 midwestgak  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:00:53pm

re: #353 iceweasel

I do too. ;) Gobsmacked has long been one of my favourites.

How about bangers (sausages) and snags? (nylons)

364 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:01:06pm

re: #306 fenrisdesigns

It's a tad ironic, using Harry Potter in a speech about education, considering he dropped out in his seventh year.

If Voldemort attacks the United States, I'll accept that some of my students may have to delay finishing their education.

365 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:01:10pm

re: #201 Irish Rose

Very well said. For every parent who resents this 'intrusion' of Obama's, there is probably an equal amount of kids whose parents are either non-present, or detached. Just since my generation, the stay-at-home mom and consistent father figure is almost a distant memory for many, many kids these days. And with so many two income families, a lot of kids have had to become more and more responsible. It seems like the importance of education - staying in school, getting homework done - is one of the first things to fall by the wayside when kids are left to their own devices.

In this case, I really wish Obama was the great orator, the mesmerizing messiah he's often accused of being. If this single speech made kids turn their attitudes around about school, he'd get a high five from me. But Obama isn't the first president to do this, and if the influence of previous pro-education speeches by other presidents is any indication, I'm not exactly worried this single speech is going to make any radical about-face with the children in today's school system. At best, it may inspire some small percentage to realize their future is inextricably intertwined with education, and to take it more seriously.

Stay in school, study hard, achieve your dreams. Any POTUS that ever said this got that much right, no matter what kind of president they were.

366 Claire  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:01:23pm

The visceral rejection of this speech comes from people not liking to be told what to do by people they dislike.

The logical rejection of his message? Well there isn't one, actually.

367 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:01:24pm

re: #353 iceweasel

I do too. ;) Gobsmacked has long been one of my favourites.

"Pissing the night away" is somewhat better than "getting shit-faced drunk".

Youtube Video
368 Nekama  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:01:46pm

re: #355 Sharmuta

It's worse than that! He already says these things. And you don't care.

No. Trutherism, to my knowledge, is not what the Cincy party is about.

See my earlier local example of attending a ceremony for a local soldier who just returned from overseas. He is also a leader in the local Paulian movement.

I attended because I respect of VFW and the service of our soldiers. His unrelated Paulian beliefs were not the subject of the ceremony.

369 Randall Gross  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:01:53pm

Charles, my wager is that Glen will leapfrog from the speech to "education czar" very quickly in his upcoming show.

370 Wendya  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:01:55pm

re: #320 _RememberTonyC

Wouldn't ie be great if some prominent GOP politician came out and thanked President Obama for caring enough about kids to want to inspire them? I'm not being a polyanna about this, because if there is something he says to the kids that is deserving of criticism, it's so much better to hear it before condemning it.

That would be a positive move and it may well happen. What would be better is if GOP congressmen had taken their own messages of personal responsibility and the importance of students finishing their education to the schools.

The county seat of the super blue county I live in has a graduation rate of 39%. This is a ready made opportunity for the local republicans if only they would get off their asses. It's an issue of great concern to parents and it is a stumbling block in getting educated professionals with families to move here. Will our local R's take advantage of this? Probably not.

371 UncleRancher  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:02:53pm

My wife and I were sitting at a table at my high school reunion, and I kept staring at a drunken lady swigging her drink as she sat alone at a nearby table.

My wife asked, 'Do you know her?'

'Yes,' I sighed, 'she's my old girlfriend. I understand she took to drinking right after we split up those many years ago and I hear she hasn't been sober since.'

'My God!' says my wife, 'Who would think a person could go on celebrating that long?'

And that's how the fight started ...

372 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:03:09pm

re: #309 yochanan

secularism has a bias as well even here. sorry to say.

in the fine arts YOU CAN FORGET ABOUT GETTING A BALANCED EDUCATION.

I get it, you're powerless, they're all against you. OK.

373 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:03:10pm

re: #357 MandyManners

Well, when I read or hear "wingnut" I get an image that is not altogether wholesome. But, that's just me.

This is the image I get:

[Link: shop1.mailordercentral.com...]

As far as the image you get is concerned, I have the sneaking suspicion that I don't wanna know...;~)

374 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:03:36pm

re: #348 Salamantis

I have no problem with 'wingnut' as long as 'moonbat' is also acceptable.

In the interests of fairness and reciprocity, though, either both should be okay or neither should be okay.

I get tired of them because of the overuse. It would be good if we could see a little more creative (if not more specific) terminology.

375 Randall Gross  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:03:48pm

My bet is that he brings on FIRE, Horowitz or someone like that to tell us how bad a college degree can because of the sekret Ayers indoctrination Kampz that every college in the US runs.

376 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:03:55pm

re: #363 midwestgak

How about bangers (sausages) and snags? (nylons)

Bangers and mash! Yay!
Never heard snags before though-- good one.

377 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:04:04pm

Out Of Context Socialism In Barack Obama's Education Speech

I've found all the naughty socialist indoctrination in the advance text of the president's education speech tomorrow, and I've cut it out for you and I annotated it, totally out of context. In bold, how an Obama hater -- someone who sincerely believes that Obama is a malevolent force -- might interpret the excerpts.
Obama: "And no matter what grade you're in, some of you are probably wishing it were still summer, and you could've stayed in bed just a little longer this morning."

But the government forces you to go to school, ha ha ha.

But I'm here today because I have something important to discuss with you. I'm here because I want to talk with you about your education and what's expected of all of you in this new school year.

378 doubter4444  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:04:27pm

re: #107 Nekama

We know that now. But that was not the case when the some began to be concerned. It appeared as if Obama might have been attempting to enlist (yes, Sharmuta) school children to advance his political agenda.

OMG. You have got to be fucking kidding.
Please say you forgot the / tag

379 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:04:29pm

re: #374 jaunte

I get tired of them because of the overuse. It would be good if we could see a little more creative (if not more specific) terminology.

Thank you - that was my only point.

380 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:04:29pm

re: #368 Nekama

You can't have it both ways. You said:

If Rink was saying "Obama's taking us down the wrong road, AND 9-11 was an inside job", that would, of course, be different.

Rink does say both these things. And you want to hear him talk at a tea party? Enjoy listening to truthers speaking about government. He might not tell you 9/11 was an inside job right then and there, but hey- I'm sure he has other great ideas about government!

381 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:04:32pm

re: #366 Claire

The visceral rejection of this speech comes from people not liking to be told what to do by people they dislike.

The logical rejection of his message? Well there isn't one, actually.

As I noted eaerlier, my knickers get twisted by the tips to the teacher, most especially this one:

Why is it important that we listen to the president and other elected officials, like the mayor, senators, members of congress, or the governor? Why is what they say important?

We should be teaching kids of all ages that power in America flows UPWARD.

382 sngnsgt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:04:56pm

BRB, I have to go wash my hands again.

383 Fenris  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:05:01pm

re: #372 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeesh, I should read a little further down before jumping into this conversation. Fine arts education is a joke, but for different, less conspirational reasons.

384 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:05:14pm

re: #321 wrenchwench

I was a big fan of No Child Left Behind, because I thought there was finally going to be some accountability in public education. And I figured that if it bothers the NEA, it must be good.

But the dropout rate is really bad.


I suspect some kids are being encouraged to quit in order to get the averages up. Unintended consequences, maybe. If the speech does anything to counter this, it is good. More is needed.

NCLB has some good ideas, but there are some unfortunate side effects. There's nothing as vicious as a school district that sees its funding threatened.

385 Bob Dillon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:05:34pm

re: #338 John Neverbend

That's ok, I realized that. Otherwise, I would have told you to mind your own sodding business (or gone off in a sort of flounce).

One resource - not widely enough known.

[Link: www.gordontraining.com...]

Teacher Effectiveness Training (T.E.T.)

What makes the difference between teaching that works and teaching that fails? The factor that contributes the most is the quality of the teacher-student relationship. It's more important than what the teacher is teaching or who the teacher is trying to teach.

Teacher Effectiveness Training (T.E.T.) offers teachers the essential communication and conflict resolution skills they need to have high quality relationships with their students so there will be less conflict and more teaching-learning time. This model has worked for hundreds of thousands of teachers around the world.

I wish it were more used our system.

Parents could benefit as well - we are all teachers to our kids.

386 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:05:37pm

I mean- what could a truther possibly have to say about the government that could be flawed so long as they're not talking crazy 9/11 conspiracies at the same time?

387 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:05:49pm

re: #372 SanFranciscoZionist

no point debating it in the arts IT ISN'T GOING TO CHANGE.

388 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:05:59pm

re: #357 MandyManners

Well, when I read or hear "wingnut" I get an image that is not altogether wholesome. But, that's just me.

It's just a contraction from the original "rightwing nut"= wingnut. That's why it doesnt get employed to cover the whole right, just the nuts on the right. Wingnut was just easier. Kinda the companion piece to moonbat.

389 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:06:08pm

re: #369 Thanos

Charles, my wager is that Glen will leapfrog from the speech to "education czar" very quickly in his upcoming show.

Does he have one?

390 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:06:44pm

re: #383 fenrisdesigns

Hey! I'm the product of a fine arts education. I resemble that remark.

391 John Neverbend  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:06:50pm

re: #356 Gus 802

Just ran the speech through the word counter. Actually, Ed left out the other top words:


145 "you" far surpasses the "I"s in that speech. He references the students far more then himself.

The software packages that perform word counts are useful for stylometric analysis, and I've seen some interesting and useful research done in that area. For example, the Master of my old college used it determine in which corpus or perhaps I should say σωμα of Aristotle's work a particular work should go.

392 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:07:19pm

re: #373 Salamantis

This is the image I get:

[Link: shop1.mailordercentral.com...]

As far as the image you get is concerned, I have the sneaking suspicion that I don't wanna know...;~)

So, that's what those little things are called.

393 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:07:31pm

Irish Rose:
I have something hilarious to share with you but don't want the stalkers to see it.
Check you mail but make sure your not drinking any beverages when you read it, otherwise you'll have to clean your keyboard and screen.

394 Fenris  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:07:32pm

re: #390 theheat

Hey! I'm the product of a fine arts education. I resemble that remark.

As am I. I am equally offended by my own remark.

395 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:08:00pm

re: #387 yochanan

no point debating it in the arts IT ISN'T GOING TO CHANGE.

Stop screaming, please.

396 Chekote  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:08:11pm

The funny thing is that if Palin had made a similar speech and talked about herself, Ed Morrissey would be the first to praise her for "relating to the common people".

397 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:08:35pm

re: #393 Reginald Perrin

Irish Rose:
I have something hilarious to share with you but don't want the stalkers to see it.
Check you mail but make sure your not drinking any beverages when you read it, otherwise you'll have to clean your keyboard and screen.

Heh.
Thanks for the warning.

398 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:08:43pm

re: #386 Sharmuta

I mean- what could a truther possibly have to say about the government that could be flawed so long as they're not talking crazy 9/11 conspiracies at the same time?

That it needs to be replaced by a theocracy?

/some Paulian Troofer probably think that way.

399 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:08:48pm

Fine arts educations can be improved, but it takes practice.

400 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:08:56pm

re: #388 iceweasel

It's just a contraction from the original "rightwing nut"= wingnut. That's why it doesnt get employed to cover the whole right, just the nuts on the right. Wingnut was just easier. Kinda the companion piece to moonbat.

I thought it referred to those little things in Salamantis' No. 373.

Two more things I've learned today.

401 Shug  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:08:58pm

re: #393 Reginald Perrin

Irish Rose:
I have something hilarious to share with you but don't want the stalkers to see it.
Check you mail but make sure your not drinking any beverages when you read it, otherwise you'll have to clean your keyboard and screen.

whoa buddy. you just can't go and say you have something funny and not share it

402 midwestgak  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:09:26pm

re: #394 fenrisdesigns

As am I. I am equally offended by my own remark.

Reminds me of the movie, The Last Remark of Beau Geste./

403 Nekama  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:09:31pm

re: #380 Sharmuta

You can't have it both ways. You said:


Rink does say both these things. And you want to hear him talk at a tea party? Enjoy listening to truthers speaking about government. He might not tell you 9/11 was an inside job right then and there, but hey- I'm sure he has other great ideas about government!

As long as the program doesn't stray into their other ideas I'm fine with attending such a protest against the direction our country is headed under Obama (and some of what took place under Bush).

To me, that is what the protests are about.

404 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:10:01pm

re: #394 fenrisdesigns

Okay, well I know who to sit next to at the next cocktail party, while people throw math problems my direction, just to see that deer-in-the-headlights look.
//

405 Randall Gross  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:10:02pm

re: #389 MandyManners

No, but Arne Duncan will probably be the one picked upon if he goes that route

[Link: www.ed.gov...]

406 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:10:06pm

re: #400 MandyManners

I thought it referred to those little things in Salamantis' No. 373.

Two more things I've learned today.

And Ctrl-P doesn't refer to the rope thing.

407 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:10:10pm

re: #401 Shug

whoa buddy. you just can't go and say you have something funny and not share it

That's like not bringing enough gum for the entire class.

408 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:10:25pm

re: #403 Nekama

As long as the program doesn't stray into their other ideas I'm fine with attending such a protest against the direction our country is headed under Obama (and some of what took place under Bush).

To me, that is what the protests are about.

You think truthers are good speakers for such events?

409 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:10:34pm

re: #361 _RememberTonyC

and now for something completely different ...

[Link: espn.go.com...]

you're welcome

Our jobs suck, don't they? The things we have to look at day in and day out!

410 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:10:47pm

re: #406 debutaunt

And Ctrl-P doesn't refer to the rope thing.

ROFLMAO!!

411 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:10:57pm

re: #393 Reginald Perrin

Too damned funny!

412 Irenike  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:11:07pm

I read the suggested syllabus that teachers could use in conjunction with his speech. I was struck by the emphasis on what students could "do" to "help" the president. Given Obama's activist past, how easy would it be for a classroom teacher (who is likely to be an O supporter) to use his speech and the aura of his authority as a segue into advocating specific leftist agendas? I'm talking about environmental clap-trap such as recycling and water conservation, or the idea of funneling yet more tax money into the failing government-run education system, not to mention socialized health care.

How many classroom teachers will encourage students who don't like Obama to write an essay that is critical of some aspect of the President's political platform? Because that's really the nub of the problem. Obama doesn't have to speak in anything but platitudes that sound good and ruffle no feathers. The real trench warfare is in the classroom, which is mainly run by Obama supporters, since the teacher's unions overwhelmingly vote Democrat. Obama has given teachers an opening to "discuss" and "explore" him and his policies. If you think fervent Obama supporters, in the role of teacher, are going to be objective, fair, non-political and tolerant of dissent, you haven't spent much time in the classroom.

If George Bush had made a big speech to all American students simultaneously, as Obama is doing, he would have been labeled a Fascist and teachers would be encouraging their students to find areas in which they disagree with him. Protest against some presidential policy (regardless of whether it was mentioned in the speech) would be viewed as a noble expression of democracy in action. I see none of that with Obama. I'm just pointing out the double-standard.

I'm also dismayed to see talk on this board about the importance of Obama as a role model for black inner-city youths. Look, if Obama can turn around the dysfunctional inner-city culture, that would make his presidency a good thing, on balance. But I'm not holding my breath. My bet is, his Pennsylvania Avenue address won't make a damn bit of difference unless the inner city culture radically changes its values. More to the point, Obama's ideals of big government dependence, along with an entitlement mentality and the evaporation of individual initiative and two-parent families, are the very reasons why inner-city blacks are in such dire straits. To riff on Martin Luther King, it's not the color of the man's skin that counts, but the content of his ideas. And frankly, most of Obama's ideas suck and have caused these inner-city problems in the first place.

413 HelloDare  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:11:10pm

I agree that criticism of the speech is overblown. Way overblown. Overblown to the point of being stupid. It would have been better for Republicans and conservative pundits to wait and see what Obama actually said.

Should people keep an eye on Obama in regards to education. Considering Obama’s past actions, of course they should. Through the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, Obama funded Bill Ayers' radical school agenda.

Obama’s actions on education are even more relevant than his words on healthcare.

But the conservative right blew it big time on this one, in my opinion.


Obama and Ayers Pushed Radicalism On Schools

When Obama chaired the Chicago Anneberg Challenge he heavily funded Bill Ayers Small Schools movement among other radical education groups.

Mr. Ayers is the founder of the "small schools" movement (heavily funded by CAC), in which individual schools built around specific political themes push students to "confront issues of inequity, war, and violence." He believes teacher education programs should serve as "sites of resistance" to an oppressive system. (His teacher-training programs were also CAC funded.) The point, says Mr. Ayers in his "Teaching Toward Freedom," is to "teach against oppression," against America's history of evil and racism, thereby forcing social transformation.

Here is a part of a speech that Bill Ayers gave in Venezuela in 2006.

... We share the belief that education is the motor-force of revolution, and I’ve come to appreciate Luis as a major asset in both the Venezuelan and the international struggle—I look forward to seeing how he and all of you continue to overcome the failings of capitalist education as you seek to create something truly new and deeply humane.

...Jailed for ten days, I met several activists who were finding ways to link teaching and education with deep and fundamental social change. They were following Dewey and DuBois, King and Helen Keller who wrote: “We can’t have education without revolution. We have tried peace education for 1,900 years and it has failed. Let us try revolution and see what it will do now.”

... Teaching invites transformations, it urges revolutions small and large. La educacion es revolucion!

...This World Education Forum provides us a unique opportunity to develop and share the lessons and challenges of this profound educational project that is the Bolivarian Revolution.

Viva Mission Sucre!
Viva Presidente Chavez!
Viva La Revolucion Bolivariana!
Hasta La Victoria Siempre!

414 Nekama  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:11:36pm

re: #408 Sharmuta

You think truthers are good speakers for such events?

See my example about our local returning soldier.

415 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:12:03pm

re: #414 Nekama

No- answer my question.

416 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:12:06pm

re: #384 SanFranciscoZionist

NCLB has some good ideas, but there are some unfortunate side effects. There's nothing as vicious as a school district that sees its funding threatened.

Teaching to an exam as a substitute for increasing teachers and getting real teaching done is a national tragedy for our education system.

Since NCLB has been enacted, I have seen the results of our high schools deteriorate when they get to my college classes.

In my humble experience, the bill was a total failure and a cynical attempt to cut education funding while sounding pro-education.

417 Fenris  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:14:00pm

re: #404 theheat

Okay, well I know who to sit next to at the next cocktail party, while people throw math problems my direction, just to see that deer-in-the-headlights look.
//

That's why I do my work from home. Can't become too accustomed to social contact.

418 Nekama  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:14:14pm

re: #415 Sharmuta

No- answer my question.

I have. Several times. You apparently don't like the answer.

I'm there about the message. As long as the program remains on target, I'm fine with being there. Just as I honor the service of a man who happens to be a Paulian.

419 Bloodnok  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:15:12pm

re: #388 iceweasel

It's just a contraction from the original "rightwing nut"= wingnut. That's why it doesnt get employed to cover the whole right, just the nuts on the right. Wingnut was just easier. Kinda the companion piece to moonbat.

Yes. I wouldn't say it is overused here either. It's a harmless term, has a specific meaning which shouldn't offend anyone (since I would hope we haven't many true wingnuts here) and makes its point. Just like a lot of other terms do.

420 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:15:32pm

re: #418 Nekama

I'm there about the message.

The message being promoted by truthers, paulians, Birchers, neo-nazis, and code pink. Enjoy.

421 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:16:06pm

re: #414 Nekama

See my example about our local returning soldier.

What example was that?

422 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:16:57pm

re: #189 Charles

Fox News is pushing the sekrit indoctrination line HARD today.

Glenn Beck is going to reveal the horrible sekrit troof tomorrow.

But...but...but by tomorrow it will be too late! The chilluns will have already been turned into mindless Democratic zombies by their exposure to a black ma...I mean, by exposure to 0bama! Woe! Woe!

And now for some Bob Hope:

Youtube Video
423 Claire  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:17:24pm

re: #420 Sharmuta

Did they give speeches about that stuff in Cincinatti?

424 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:17:36pm

Now that I think on Code Pink joining the tea parties, and the right's sudden interest in withdrawing from Afghanistan- I have to give those ladies some credit.

425 MacDuff  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:17:37pm

re: #413 HelloDare

What? There are also LEFT wing nuts?

426 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:17:37pm

re: #393 Reginald Perrin

Good *, they're dumber than a load of bricks over there.

427 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:17:40pm

re: #401 Shug
I would love to share it but am reluctant to because it involved the dim-witted deranged stalkers at da deuce.
Being a newbie, I'm not sure is something off topic like this is acceptable.

428 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:17:40pm

Is Arne Duncan FCBBHO's education czar?

429 sagehen  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:17:50pm

re: #381 MandyManners

As I noted eaerlier, my knickers get twisted by the tips to the teacher, most especially this one:

Why is it important that we listen to the president and other elected officials, like the mayor, senators, members of congress, or the governor? Why is what they say important?

We should be teaching kids of all ages that power in America flows UPWARD.

It's important to listen to what they're saying, so we know what they're saying. So when they're wrong, we can quote them and explain exactly why they're wrong. Otherwise, we'd be making stupid arguments against somebody without even knowing what they said.

And maybe they're only wrong sometimes. If we don't listen to them, we won't know which times.

430 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:17:55pm

re: #421 Dark_Falcon

re: #418 Nekama

I have. Several times. You apparently don't like the answer.

I'm there about the message. As long as the program remains on target, I'm fine with being there. Just as I honor the service of a man who happens to be a Paulian.

Never mind my question. It is of course fit and just to honor his service, but also work to help him off the crazy train.

431 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:18:35pm

re: #423 Claire

You think truthers are a good group to hear from concerning government?

432 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:19:04pm

re: #429 sagehen

It's important to listen to what they're saying, so we know what they're saying. So when they're wrong, we can quote them and explain exactly why they're wrong. Otherwise, we'd be making stupid arguments against somebody without even knowing what they said.

And maybe they're only wrong sometimes. If we don't listen to them, we won't know which times.

Quite Concur.

433 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:19:34pm

re: #417 fenrisdesigns

Ditto. Enough of being the butt end of jokes, only consulted in things pertaining to design, or drawing impromptu cariactures on the backs of cocktail napkins to amuse your friends. If you have friends.

434 Bob Dillon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:19:51pm

re: #198 Wendya

In a perfect world that's exactly what would happen. Unfortunately, that's not the reality.

True and it is a lack of education on being an effective parent.

[Link: www.gordontraining.com...]

Kind of like Bucky Fuller - seeing that there was no operational manual for our planet - he wrote one.

435 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:19:58pm

re: #427 Reginald Perrin

Go for it.

436 MacDuff  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:20:00pm

re: #428 MandyManners

Is Arne Duncan FCBBHO's education czar?

Are there any female czars? Are they called czarinias? If not, why not?

437 Randall Gross  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:20:05pm

re: #428 MandyManners

Well since we aren't imperial Russia, I would say no. I would say he's sect'y of education.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

438 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:20:10pm

Charles, the rant at NRO reads:


Get 'Em Early!

Excerpt:

The video, the Department of (Political) Education directives, the secular crusading — these are alarm bells. There is an emptiness that a tyrannical reign of elite secularism has begot. And self-declared servants of Obama may not realize this yet, but it’s an emptiness that ultimately can’t be filled by hollow rhetoric and bureaucratic disasters.

Secular crusading!
Alarm Bells!
Tyrannical reign!
Elite secularism!
Self-declared servants!

439 Fenris  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:20:25pm

re: #431 Sharmuta

You think truthers are a good group to hear from concerning government?

They're probably as reliable and consistent as a libertarian running for president.

440 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:20:32pm

re: #425 MacDuff

What? There are also LEFT wing nuts?

Yes. LWN's all.

441 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:20:53pm

re: #414 Nekama

See my example about our local returning soldier.

Forgive me for altering your example to make it more analogous to the tea partiers. Suppose the ceremony for the soldier had been put on by the Paulians he supports, rather than the VFW. Would you still go there to honor his service?

442 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:21:18pm

re: #439 fenrisdesigns

I think truthers have pretty much made themselves unacceptable advocates for anything.

443 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:21:40pm

re: #416 LudwigVanQuixote

In my humble experience, the bill was a total failure and a cynical attempt to cut education funding while sounding pro-education.

Attempt didn't succeed: Education Department Budgets

I'd like to know what results have been achieved from the increased spending at the federal level?

What is DoEd's purpose?

444 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:21:41pm

re: #429 sagehen

It's important to listen to what they're saying, so we know what they're saying. So when they're wrong, we can quote them and explain exactly why they're wrong. Otherwise, we'd be making stupid arguments against somebody without even knowing what they said.

And maybe they're only wrong sometimes. If we don't listen to them, we won't know which times.

Kindergartners, elementary students and, for that matter, most junior high and high school kids don't possess the critical thinking skills required to do that. I still believe it is the job of the parents to filter what their children hear from the government.

445 itellu3times  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:21:43pm

re: #356 Gus 802

Just ran the speech through the word counter. Actually, Ed left out the other top words:
...
145 "you" far surpasses the "I"s in that speech. He references the students far more then himself.

He has already learned something in his first six months, kewl. His overuse of "I" during the campaign jumped out at me all the time. But waitaminute, ... still "you" and "I".

What is (still) wrong with that picture?

446 Claire  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:22:09pm

re: #431 Sharmuta

No, I don't. I'm asking if they gave any speeches about Trutherism at those rallies.

447 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:22:25pm

No word yet from World Nut Drooly. They do have this headline though:


Breaking News!

Court document swears Kenyan birth cert legit!

448 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:22:51pm

re: #446 Claire

I wasn't in attendance, so I can't say.

449 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:22:52pm

re: #420 Sharmuta

The message being promoted by truthers, paulians, Birchers, neo-nazis, and code pink. Enjoy.

I'm sorry, Sharmie, but this is getting awful close to thoughtcrime. If I have no problem with the message, I'm not gonna go all ad hominem on the messenger. That would be like objecting to Obama's speech because he gave it. I would have a big problem, however, with a truther, paulian, Bircher, neo-nazi, and code pinkish speech.

2 + 2 does not = 5, even if Gandhi says it does, or Hitler says it doesn't.

2 + 2 = 4, even if Gandhi says it doesn't, or Hitler says it does.

Great minds discuss ideas, mediocre minds are captivated by events, and small minds are mesmerized by personalities.

450 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:23:14pm

re: #447 Gus 802

No word yet from World Nut Drooly. They do have this headline though:

Wing Nut Drooly

451 Wendya  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:23:23pm

re: #405 Thanos

No, but Arne Duncan will probably be the one picked upon if he goes that route

[Link: www.ed.gov...]

As the former head of the Chicago public school system, he was a poor choice.

452 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:24:01pm

re: #446 Claire

No, I don't. I'm asking if they gave any speeches about Trutherism at those rallies.

Why would you trust anything a Truther or a John Bircher had to say about anything?

It's kind of amazing to see people parsing every single word of Obama's speech to children to find hidden messages and commie indoctrination, while blithely listening to Truthers and Paulians rant about the government and saying, "You know, they have some very good points."

453 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:24:13pm

re: #445 itellu3times

He has already learned something in his first six months, kewl. His overuse of "I" during the campaign jumped out at me all the time. But waitaminute, ... still "you" and "I".

What is (still) wrong with that picture?

Nothing is wrong with this picture in my estimation. What I do see as being wrong is what's flying for debate or analysis on the right side of the blogosphere.

454 abbyadams  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:24:13pm

re: #187 Banner

Nope, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You said:

I'm sure if you got your hands on a draft from before the outcry, you would have thought parts of it improper.

You are implying right there that you knew what he was going to say, and that he changed it because of the right wing blogs, etc. complained.

And in another post you say that Obama's no idiot. So, if Obama's no idiot, do you really think he's so unaware that people were just going to roll over and let him "indoctrinate" the youth of America? Did you think maybe he slept through all the crazy that's been going on? And maybe could just sneak a little socialist speech into public schools across the country?

455 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:24:19pm

re: #436 MacDuff

Are there any female czars? Are they called czarinias? If not, why not?

Carol Browner and Lynn Rosenthal are the only two that come to my mind.

456 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:24:54pm

re: #438 Gus 802

Charles, the rant at NRO reads:

Secular crusading!
Alarm Bells!
Tyrannical reign!
Elite secularism!
Self-declared servants!

Dear Lord...

What alarm bells? Work hard get educated serve your nation be making something of yourself and helping to face national challenges?

Gosh Darn it, those used to be conservative values too!

What damn alarm bells? How can these morons print this?

If Obama said that two and two made four, they would find a way to seethe hysterically.

To think such people vote...

457 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:25:05pm

re: #437 Thanos

Well since we aren't imperial Russia, I would say no. I would say he's sect'y of education.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

"Czar" is a term coined by the MFM during FDR's administration to refer to presidential advisers.

458 Izzyboy  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:25:10pm

Harry Potter?! Damn, I wish I was there.

459 Randall Gross  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:25:26pm

re: #451 Wendya

As the former head of the Chicago public school system, he was a poor choice.

I agree, especially after the poor results from the grant program Ayers and Obama were involved with, however that said, this is the US, we are not imperial Russia, and we don't have Czars. We just have lame bureaucrats.

460 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:25:35pm

re: #135 FrogMarch

I'm still puzzled as to why he put an end to the popular DC voucher program


Pressure from the NEA . They hates it forever, the nasty vouchersss.

461 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:25:51pm

re: #456 LudwigVanQuixote

Dear Lord...

What alarm bells? Work hard get educated serve your nation be making something of yourself and helping to face national challenges?

Gosh Darn it, those used to be conservative values too!

What damn alarm bells? How can these morons print this?

If Obama said that two and two made four, they would find a way to seethe hysterically.

To think such people vote...

Yes. Notice the secular meme. As in "secular progressives." Now where have we heard that phrase before?

462 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:25:55pm

re: #426 Irish Rose

Do you want to take a stab at explaining to the readers who are interested? Honestly, I cannot believe that intellectual midget Savage didn't realize who I am.

463 MacDuff  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:26:05pm

re: #449 Salamantis

Great minds discuss ideas, mediocre minds are captivated by events, and small minds are mesmerized by personalities.

I must say, I love that line! Yours?

464 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:26:06pm

re: #416 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #443 Van Helsing

Attempt didn't succeed: Education Department Budgets

I'd like to know what results have been achieved from the increased spending at the federal level?

What is DoEd's purpose?

Do ED budget had doubled in the Bush years (over the Clinton ones0 Also, the "attepmt to cut" the budget? The bill (NCLB) was authored and sheepherded thru the senate by Ted Kennedy. Is it your (Ludwig) contention that Kennedy wanted to secretly cut the Ed budget?

465 itellu3times  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:26:21pm

re: #453 Gus 802

Nothing is wrong with this picture in my estimation.

He has progressed from "I" to "you", but has apparently not yet grasped the rhetorical "we" that is the absolute staple of most successful politicians.

/yes, I'm suggesting he needs to get "we-we'd up"!

466 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:26:59pm

re: #463 MacDuff

I must say, I love that line! Yours?

Nope, but I can't remember whose it is off the top of my head.

467 Wendya  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:27:08pm

re: #455 MandyManners

Carol Browner and Lynn Rosenthal are the only two that come to my mind.

Nancy-Ann DeParle.

3 out of 32.

468 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:27:17pm

re: #465 itellu3times

He has progressed from "I" to "you", but has apparently not yet grasped the rhetorical "we" that is the absolute staple of most successful politicians.

/yes, I'm suggesting he needs to get "we-we'd up"!

Ah, OK. Hmmm. I'm sure "we" would cause a stink to. You know, "we" has a lot of "collective" connotations. ;)

469 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:27:25pm

Arne Duncan appears to be all "mobbed-up" with the Chicago educational scene.

470 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:27:44pm

re: #468 Gus 802

Too that is.

471 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:27:54pm

re: #465 itellu3times

We sounds socialist, doesn't it? We, the Collective.

//

472 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:27:58pm

re: #460 tradewind

Pressure from the NEA . They hates it forever, the nasty vouchersss.

Indeed. Unions don't like competition from open-shop establishments.

473 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:28:18pm

re: #471 theheat

We sounds socialist, doesn't it? We, the Collective.

//

We are Borg.

//

474 Bloodnok  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:28:22pm

re: #468 Gus 802

Ah, OK. Hmmm. I'm sure "we" would cause a stink to. You know, "we" has a lot of "collective" connotations. ;)

It would be Obama adopting the Royal "We" of course.

Monarchist!

475 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:28:40pm

re: #474 Bloodnok

It would be Obama adopting the Royal "We" of course.

Monarchist!

Oligarhy!

//

476 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:29:00pm

re: #469 MandyManners

Arne Duncan appears to be all "mobbed-up" with the Chicago educational scene.

Hell, that's no surprise. You can't attain a major office in Chicago unless you're part of the machine.

477 itellu3times  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:29:04pm

re: #466 Salamantis

Nope, but I can't remember whose it is off the top of my head.

google suggests eleanor roosevelt

478 Fenris  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:29:12pm

re: #447 Gus 802

Who in their right mind tries to sell court exhibits on eBay?

479 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:29:18pm

re: #462 Reginald Perrin

You're a relative newbie here. Why would he recognize you?

480 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:29:47pm

re: #467 Wendya

Nancy-Ann DeParle.

3 out of 32.

Is she in health?

481 Izzyboy  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:29:49pm
You’ll need the knowledge and problem-solving skills you learn in science and math to cure diseases like cancer and AIDS

Eh? "Mommy what's AIDS?"

482 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:30:35pm

re: #478 fenrisdesigns

1 million dollars! Heck, I've got Obama's nirth certificate for sale right here and I'll let you have it for half as much.

//

483 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:30:47pm

re: #459 Thanos

I agree, especially after the poor results from the grant program Ayers and Obama were involved with, however that said, this is the US, we are not imperial Russia, and we don't have Czars. We just have lame bureaucrats.

Annenberg Challenge?

Was Jeff Jones ever associated with that one?

484 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:30:59pm

re: #449 Salamantis

Sal- the odious may find nuggets of truth like a blind squirrel, but that doesn't mean they should be granted an audience for the remainder of their positions. They should not be granted legitimacy based on the few nuggets for it's not granted just to the nuggets, but to them. This is how fascists mainstream- by latching onto populist movements. It's why populism is so dangerous. So hitler can add 2 + 2. You want to grant him a stage?

485 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:31:23pm

re: #482 Gus 802

Who said a fine arts education can't pay off? (evil laugh)

486 Miss Trixie  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:31:33pm

re: #412 Irenike

*applause* Well said.

487 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:31:42pm

re: #481 Izzyboy

Eh? "Mommy what's AIDS?"

Oh, my stars. That's in the speech?

488 Izzyboy  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:31:57pm

re: #487 MandyManners

Yes. :/

489 itellu3times  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:32:19pm

re: #468 Gus 802

Ah, OK. Hmmm. I'm sure "we" would cause a stink to. You know, "we" has a lot of "collective" connotations. ;)

Ladies and Gentlemen, now is our time, we can do it, just vote for me!

/campaign 101 since Roman republic, greek democracy, and probably a lot of volk tribal customs going back 10,000 years more.

490 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:32:24pm

re: #462 Reginald Perrin

Do you want to take a stab at explaining to the readers who are interested? Honestly, I cannot believe that intellectual midget Savage didn't realize who I am.

Don't have time today, my Marine is taking me out to dinner.
Later!

491 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:33:04pm

re: #443 Van Helsing

Attempt didn't succeed: Education Department Budgets

I'd like to know what results have been achieved from the increased spending at the federal level?

What is DoEd's purpose?

Well, you need to very careful about those numbers. The vast majority of educational dollars come from states, counties and local districts.

The bottom line is that the best public schools are in the places with the highest property taxes.

Not surprisingly, the effect of the bill was a way for schools with the least resources to be directed to focus on the easier job of teaching to a test than the harder job, that requires more resources, of actually teaching.

The Federal education budget is bupkas. If we gave a damn about education, we might consider paying a fraction of what we spend on "pick your pork" on actually pumping some billions into primary education at the federal level, because the states simply can not get the job done adequately under the present system.

All of our kids deserve an even better education than the kids in the high property tax zones get, and the reality is that the quality of the education that most kids get is atrocious. This is true even with some of the most dedicated teachers working in the worst places.

There just aren't enough teachers and we don't pay them enough to make the job attractive to the best people. There are some fantastic underpain idealists in the system and all too many people teaching who are way over their depth.

Let's be real. An education system that thinks it is ok to not know Algebra upon graduation, or to read at what used to be a tenth grade level or less upon graduation, is a failure.

492 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:33:28pm

re: #488 Izzyboy

Yes. :/

Elementary students need to be told about that?!

493 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:33:36pm

re: #487 MandyManners

Oh, my stars. That's in the speech?

Yes, he only mentions it in the context of its curing alongside cancer. I think it was appropriate.

494 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:34:18pm

re: #484 Sharmuta

Sal- the odious may find nuggets of truth like a blind squirrel, but that doesn't mean they should be granted an audience for the remainder of their positions. They should not be granted legitimacy based on the few nuggets for it's not granted just to the nuggets, but to them. This is how fascists mainstream- by latching onto populist movements. It's why populism is so dangerous. So hitler can add 2 + 2. You want to grant him a stage?

No, but condemn him for advocating exterminating Jews, not for successfully negotiating a simple math problem.

495 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:34:23pm

re: #479 MandyManners

It might have something to do with the fact that I have this nasty little habit of making him look like a complete idiot every time we played whack-a-troll. Normally I post as Reggie, but that name was taken here, so I used Reginald Perrin.

496 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:34:39pm

re: #487 MandyManners

It's right next to cancer:

You’ll need the knowledge and problem-solving skills you learn in science and math to cure diseases like cancer and AIDS

In that context, I have no problem with it. You can explain what it is to a small child the same way you'd explain cancer. You don't have to go into the causes with a six year old.

497 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:34:51pm

re: #412 Irenike


If George Bush had made a big speech to all American students simultaneously, as Obama is doing, he would have been labeled a Fascist and teachers would be encouraging their students to find areas in which they disagree with him. Protest against some presidential policy (regardless of whether it was mentioned in the speech) would be viewed as a noble expression of democracy in action. I see none of that with Obama. I'm just pointing out the double-standard.

I'm also dismayed to see talk on this board about the importance of Obama as a role model for black inner-city youths.
(snip)

Two points here:
1. You're getting angry at the idea of a hypothetical universe, where Bush would have done something-- but he didn't -- and there would have been some fantasised reaction. But there wasn't. And you have zero basis for this parallel universe anyway, given that Bush DID give speeches to schoolkids and there WAS NO freakout. You have entered the realm where people get angry at the imaginary Obama and the imaginary world, rather than dealing with the facts in this world.

2. One symptom of this is that you can find ANYTHING 'dismaying' about the idea of Obama as a role model for black inner city youths. Exactly who do you think they should emulate? Maybe they can relate better to Dick Cheney? Maybe none of them can find anything admirable, or anything to relate to, in a story about a black kid abandoned by his father who grew up to be POTUS?

This is rubbish.

498 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:35:02pm

re: #493 Dark_Falcon

Yes, he only mentions it in the context of its curing alongside cancer. I think it was appropriate.

I don't. Elementary students don't need to know about it. He could say "other fatal illnesses" or something similiar.

499 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:35:21pm

re: #449 Salamantis

I'm sorry, Sharmie, but this is getting awful close to thoughtcrime. If I have no problem with the message, I'm not gonna go all ad hominem on the messenger. That would be like objecting to Obama's speech because he gave it. I would have a big problem, however, with a truther, paulian, Bircher, neo-nazi, and code pinkish speech.

2 + 2 does not = 5, even if Gandhi says it does, or Hitler says it doesn't.

2 + 2 = 4, even if Gandhi says it doesn't, or Hitler says it does.

Great minds discuss ideas, mediocre minds are captivated by events, and small minds are mesmerized by personalities.

Your explanation is too simple, it's too logical, it's too anti-idiotarian... what are you trying to accomplish?
///

500 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:35:36pm

re: #494 Salamantis

No, but condemn him for advocating exterminating Jews, not for successfully negotiating a simple math problem.

I condemn truthers for having fucked up ideas about our government.

Based on this alone- I'm not interested in hearing anything else they have to say about the government. Period.

501 FrogMarch  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:35:39pm

re: #460 tradewind

Pressure from the NEA . They hates it forever, the nasty vouchersss.

Just the word voucher makes them seethe. They hatesss it they do. Dirty filthy vouchersss.

502 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:35:41pm

re: #495 Reginald Perrin

It might have something to do with the fact that I have this nasty little habit of making him look like a complete idiot every time we played whack-a-troll. Normally I post as Reggie, but that name was taken here, so I used Reginald Perrin.

Reggie? Here? Where?

I'm sooo confused.

503 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:36:21pm

re: #493 Dark_Falcon

Yes, he only mentions it in the context of its curing alongside cancer. I think it was appropriate.

There will be frothing and outrage over the fact that Obama mentioned it. No question.

504 Randall Gross  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:36:38pm

re: #479 MandyManners

He's always 22 minutes late anyway, something to do with a junction box.

505 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:37:03pm

re: #496 theheat

It's right next to cancer:


In that context, I have no problem with it. You can explain what it is to a small child the same way you'd explain cancer. You don't have to go into the causes with a six year old.

Until your child hops on his computer and researches it tomorrow afternoon.

506 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:37:09pm

re: #464 sattv4u2

re: #443 Van Helsing

Do ED budget had doubled in the Bush years (over the Clinton ones0 Also, the "attepmt to cut" the budget? The bill (NCLB) was authored and sheepherded thru the senate by Ted Kennedy. Is it your (Ludwig) contention that Kennedy wanted to secretly cut the Ed budget?

See my 491.

Also please do keep in mind, I teach the results of the program.

507 drogheda  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:37:14pm

re: #478 fenrisdesigns

Who in their right mind tries to sell court exhibits on eBay?

Someone who knows exactly how stupid nirthers are.

508 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:37:15pm

re: #445 itellu3times

He has already learned something in his first six months, kewl. His overuse of "I" during the campaign jumped out at me all the time. But waitaminute, ... still "you" and "I".

What is (still) wrong with that picture?

itellu3times, itellu3times, itellu3times!!! ;)

509 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:37:23pm

re: #497 iceweasel

The other night someone (sorry, don't remember who) cited evidence that there was a degree of leftist freakout over Bush Sr.'s speech in 1991.

510 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:37:31pm

re: #490 Irish Rose

Enjoy dinner.

Do you think I should post a brief summary of the dunces' idiocy at the bottom of the previous thread since there are inquiring minds that want to know?

511 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:38:06pm

re: #509 theheat

The other night someone (sorry, don't remember who) cited evidence that there was a degree of leftist freakout over Bush Sr.'s speech in 1991.

That was Dick Gephardt.

512 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:38:12pm

re: #510 Reginald Perrin

Post it on this thread. It's not a problem.

513 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:38:29pm

re: #510 Reginald Perrin

Enjoy dinner.

Do you think I should post a brief summary of the dunces' idiocy at the bottom of the previous thread since there are inquiring minds that want to know?

After 500 comments, a thread can usually be considered "open."

Spill.

514 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:38:52pm

re: #461 Gus 802

Yes. Notice the secular meme. As in "secular progressives." Now where have we heard that phrase before?

There you have it, an out and out attempt to rile up all possible forms of crazy.

I'm telling you Gus, staying in school and working hard to make something of yourself and serve your fellow man is a set of values no G-d fearing person can tolerate...


///

515 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:39:00pm

re: #505 MandyManners

If someone's six year old is cruising the net without a parent over their shoulder, I think there are some other problems there.

516 John Neverbend  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:39:00pm

re: #456 LudwigVanQuixote

Dear Lord...

What alarm bells? Work hard get educated serve your nation be making something of yourself and helping to face national challenges?

Gosh Darn it, those used to be conservative values too!

What damn alarm bells? How can these morons print this?

If Obama said that two and two made four, they would find a way to seethe hysterically.

To think such people vote...

I can't be sure, but I think that Lopez wrote that article before the text of Obama's speech was released, and the article seems to be repeating the criticism that others have made in this and prior threads.

517 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:39:23pm

re: #511 Gus 802

That was Dick Gephardt.

Dick Gephart posts here?!?

/

518 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:39:50pm

re: #517 wrenchwench

Dick Gephart posts here?!?

/

Why I outta...

//

519 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:39:51pm

re: #498 MandyManners

I don't. Elementary students don't need to know about it. He could say "other fatal illnesses" or something similiar.

Why not mention it? He's not giving a speech on how it's transmitted. And if kids ask teachers or parents what it is, there's nothing at all wrong with telling them it's a a syndrome caused by a virus which eventually leads to a collapse of the immune system. Nothing else has to come up. I can't find it inappropriate in the least.

520 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:39:51pm

re: #504 Thanos

He's always 22 minutes late anyway, something to do with a junction box.

I Googled. I still don't understand but, I know the character reference.

521 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:40:04pm

re: #513 wrenchwench

It's polite of him to be concerned about the courtesies.

Reggie- it's not a problem after the thread's gotten long on comments to post OT.

522 Duane  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:40:14pm

The speech would seem to be pretty tame, I will not apologize as a parent for being concerned. I've had to deal with the Inconvenient Truth nonsense in my son's school, and an early draft, if it is to be believed, was asking the students to think about how they can help the President.

523 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:40:38pm

re: #466 Salamantis

Excruciating post you made last night.

If that was true, first person, I am glad you are okay.

And, thanks for posting it.

524 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:40:41pm

re: #481 Izzyboy

Eh? "Mommy what's AIDS?"

Yeah, wouldn't want kids to learn about life-threatening diseases, would we?

Might embarrass their parents. Shhh!

525 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:41:12pm

re: #515 theheat

If someone's six year old is cruising the net without a parent over their shoulder, I think there are some other problems there.

I bet it could be found with parental controls in place.

526 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:41:23pm
527 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:41:58pm

Gotta go finish lumber-jacking.

Lurking is totally over-rated.

528 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:41:59pm

re: #525 MandyManners

I bet it could be found with parental controls in place.

Parental observation can not be 100 per cent all the time.

529 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:42:04pm

re: #526 dtman.com

Bye.

530 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:42:05pm

dtman.com

Registered since: Sep 25, 2005 at 1:40 pm
No. of comments posted: 2
No. of links posted: 0

531 Izzyboy  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:42:12pm

re: #526 dtman.com

2 posts in 4 years /boggle

532 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:42:25pm

re: #526 dtman.com

DON'T CLICK HIS PIMPIN' LINK!

533 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:42:41pm

re: #498 MandyManners

I don't. Elementary students don't need to know about it. He could say "other fatal illnesses" or something similiar.

I disagree. I think that the reference is innocuous. And while I think that AIDS is not something kids need to know the details of, I do feel that they should know a few broad outlines of what it is.

534 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:42:50pm

re: #514 LudwigVanQuixote

There you have it, an out and out attempt to rile up all possible forms of crazy.

I'm telling you Gus, staying in school and working hard to make something of yourself and serve your fellow man is a set of values no G-d fearing person can tolerate...

///

Right. Keep them out of school as far away as possible to keep them from getting "brainwashed" by those godless secularists. Who knows they might wind up learning about Darwin and evolution. Which is what they do and promote.

536 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:43:04pm

re: #526 dtman.com

Flounce away! It's a fine day for flouncing.

Now I'll clean up the seven other sock puppets you registered.

537 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:43:30pm

re: #506 LudwigVanQuixote

See my 491.

Also please do keep in mind, I teach the results of the program.

Sorry, but nothing in there answered my question. You asserted in #416 that NCLB was "a cynical attempt to cut education funding "

I asked if you beleive that was Ted Kennedys (author of the bill) intent!

538 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:43:34pm

re: #526 dtman.com

GET YOUR OWN BLOG.

539 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:43:50pm

re: #516 John Neverbend

I can't be sure, but I think that Lopez wrote that article before the text of Obama's speech was released, and the article seems to be repeating the criticism that others have made in this and prior threads.

And the existence of evidence that shatters their foolish hypothesis still has not, and will not dissuade them.

Much like arguing with creationists or anti-agw hacks they will just keep repeating it over and over again and then shift around to other splenetic rants when they almost get pinned down.

We've seen some of that here.

These people are not about facts or truth.

540 Hanoch  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:43:59pm

He is statist -- not a satanist -- and that is bad enough. Fortunately, the polls seem to suggest that the people are finally waking up to that fact.

541 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:44:00pm

re: #532 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

DON'T CLICK HIS PIMPIN' LINK!

What's there?

542 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:44:06pm

re: #524 Charles

Yeah, wouldn't want kids to learn about life-threatening diseases, would we?

Might embarrass their parents. Shhh!

I'm sure it would be better for the kids to hear from an elected official to slit their wrists for America.

543 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:44:18pm

Seems we'll be starting the barbecue early. I'll go put the charcoal on the grill. Any side dish orders?

544 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:44:27pm

re: #506 LudwigVanQuixote

See my 491.

Also please do keep in mind, I teach the results of the program.

And BTW ,, I thought you were a scientist involved in GW?

545 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:44:30pm

re: #536 Charles

Flounce away! It's a fine day for flouncing.

Now I'll clean up the seven other sock puppets you registered.

546 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:45:02pm

I cannot reply to all so, please suffice it to say that I disagree.

547 itellu3times  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:45:08pm

re: #508 aboo-Hoo-Hoo

Well, if I were running for office, I'd have to change it, I guess, to something like sisepuede69.

/hey waitaminute, se peude is reflexive and not plural, so what's this translation "yes we can" anyway?

548 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:45:26pm

re: #491 LudwigVanQuixote

Let's be real. An education system that thinks it is ok to not know Algebra upon graduation, or to read at what used to be a tenth grade level or less upon graduation, is a failure

I'll certainly agree with that. The problem I see is that in spite of real increased spending, the product of the school system continues to decline in quality.

I've got a number of issues with the current system but one of my favorite head-wall-bang issues is why do universities have remedial reading and math programs? Is normal literacy and basic math skills no longer required to gain admissions?

I don't understand why a state university is accepting students that have such a high probability of failure. Is it profitable for them to do so?

549 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:45:28pm

re: #536 Charles

Flounce away! It's a fine day for flouncing.

Now I'll clean up the seven other sock puppets you registered.

But it wasn't really a good flounce, low quality, lacking imagination, language skills were middle appalachian and reading level no better than pre-school.

550 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:45:32pm

re: #500 Sharmuta

I condemn truthers for having fucked up ideas about our government.

Based on this alone- I'm not interested in hearing anything else they have to say about the government. Period.

Let's try a thought experiment:

Imagine you are President, and someone anonymously emailed you a breathtakingly solid way to supply everyone with health care without raising anyone's taxes or infringing upon the freedom of choice of any medical consumers.

However, on the eve of giving a national speech unveiling this wondrous solution, the NSA informs you that they've traced the email back to someone who once signed a Truther petition.

Do you shitcan your speech, cancel plans to draft legislation, and deny that massive benefit to hundreds of millions of Americans, simply because you loathe its source?

It is a grounding principle of logic that assertions stand or fall on their own merits, independently of who proffers them.

551 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:45:33pm

re: #524 Charles

Yeah, wouldn't want kids to learn about life-threatening diseases, would we?

Might embarrass their parents. Shhh!

No Charles don't you know that teaching about AIDS will only encourage teens to have sex?

I still can't forgive the religious right for that.

Better to have dead teens as object lessons than live ones who aren't virgins... as if you can stop a teen from thinking about sex by telling them not to anyway.

552 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:45:38pm

Flounceapalooza!

553 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:45:44pm

re: #541 MandyManners

DON'T CLICK HIS PIMPIN' LINK!

What's there?

Don't know. Didn't click it.

EPIC FLOUNCE FAIL!

554 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:45:47pm

re: #525 MandyManners

And because a lot of stuff could be found with parental controls in place, I'd be damned if my six year old would surf the net without me over their shoulder.

AIDS is a global problem, a global killer. Many children are born with AIDS, or to a parent with AIDS. Pretending it doesn't exist, or being a hush word, doesn't make it less real. I don't find Obama including it as a disease next to cancer as agenda-driven. It's only naughty if people want to believe it is.

Now, if he'd mentioned dinosaurs being around millions of years ago, then I'd really be upset...

555 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:45:54pm

re: #544 sattv4u2

And BTW ,, I thought you were a scientist involved in GW?

I am. I teach at a university.

556 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:46:44pm

re: #536 Charles

Flounce away! It's a fine day for flouncing.

Now I'll clean up the seven other sock puppets you registered.

It's a nice day
for a troll flouncing.
It's a nice day to
Grill Their Buttocks!

/with apologies to Billy Idol

557 John Neverbend  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:46:46pm

re: #539 LudwigVanQuixote

And the existence of evidence that shatters their foolish hypothesis still has not, and will not dissuade them.

I'll be interested to see if there's any response from NRO to the text of the speech.

558 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:46:53pm

re: #523 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Excruciating post you made last night.

If that was true, first person, I am glad you are okay.

And, thanks for posting it.

It's true all right. I wish that it weren't. A lot.

559 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:46:54pm

re: #472 Dark_Falcon

Indeed. Unions don't like competition from open-shop establishments.

THe open-shop establishments can be pretty horrific, too. Just a word of warning.

560 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:47:01pm

re: #542 Sharmuta

I'm sure it would be better for the kids to hear from an elected official to slit their wrists for America.

It's my job to filter poltician's messages to The Kid, and Bachmann's message has been blocked here, at home, where I control the medium and the message, however flawed I might do it at times.

561 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:47:51pm

re: #549 Walter L. Newton

But it wasn't really a good flounce, low quality, lacking imagination, language skills were middle appalachian and reading level no better than pre-school.

It was probably too dumb to realize it basically admitted to being a European racist.

562 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:47:56pm

re: #555 LudwigVanQuixote

I am. I teach at a university.

And part of the curiculum is teaching the results of NCLB? Do you teach an ed course, because I don't see how the results of that would come up in a science class. Also, please answer # 537

563 shimoda  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:48:07pm

I need to ask you Engrish Speaking People.
What does flounce mean in LGF-context?

Dictionary entry overview: What does flounce mean?

• FLOUNCE (noun)
The noun FLOUNCE has 2 senses:

1. a strip of pleated material used as a decoration or a trim
2. the act of walking with exaggerated jerky motions

Familiarity information: FLOUNCE used as a noun is rare.

• FLOUNCE (verb)
The verb FLOUNCE has 1 sense:

1. walk emphatically

Familiarity information: FLOUNCE used as a verb is very rare.

Confused Am I

564 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:48:08pm

re: #550 Salamantis

Let's try a thought experiment:

Imagine you are President, and someone anonymously emailed you a breathtakingly solid way to supply everyone with health care without raising anyone's taxes or infringing upon the freedom of choice of any medical consumers.

However, on the eve of giving a national speech unveiling this wondrous solution, the NSA informs you that they've traced the email back to someone who once signed a Truther petition.

Do you shitcan your speech, cancel plans to draft legislation, and deny that massive benefit to hundreds of millions of Americans, simply because you loathe its source?

It is a grounding principle of logic that assertions stand or fall on their own merits, independently of who proffers them.

Now, what would happen if we applied that same logic to science. So, we have a scientist who has made errors in the past, in his research methods or whatever, then he claims he has invented a cure for cancer.

Off with his head.
/

565 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:48:23pm

re: #548 Van Helsing

I'll certainly agree with that. The problem I see is that in spite of real increased spending, the product of the school system continues to decline in quality.

I've got a number of issues with the current system but one of my favorite head-wall-bang issues is why do universities have remedial reading and math programs? Is normal literacy and basic math skills no longer required to gain admissions?

I don't understand why a state university is accepting students that have such a high probability of failure. Is it profitable for them to do so?

You answered your own question. The big state schools are degree factories for the most part. There are very good departments there, and there are some very good students, who will get an excellent first rate education if they seek it out..

The rest are assured that if they pay their tuition, they will receive dumbed down classes and a passing grade if they show up at least 50% of the time.

566 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:48:41pm

And I always thought a proper Flounce should rise above merely jumping onto the tracks and giving the locomotive driver the finger.

*yawn*

567 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:48:46pm

re: #492 MandyManners

Elementary students need to be told about that?!

Cancer and AIDS? Sure. They know people get sick.

568 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:48:50pm

re: #558 Salamantis

I wish it wasn't too, but, was a damn good read.

569 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:49:04pm

re: #554 theheat

And because a lot of stuff could be found with parental controls in place, I'd be damned if my six year old would surf the net without me over their shoulder.

AIDS is a global problem, a global killer. Many children are born with AIDS, or to a parent with AIDS. Pretending it doesn't exist, or being a hush word, doesn't make it less real. I don't find Obama including it as a disease next to cancer as agenda-driven. It's only naughty if people want to believe it is.

Now, if he'd mentioned dinosaurs being around millions of years ago, then I'd really be upset...

I don't disagree with the majority of what you wrote but, the exposure to that knowledge should be controlled by the parents.

570 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:49:35pm

re: #563 shimoda

flounce2 (flouns) pronunciation
intr.v., flounced, flounc·ing, flounc·es.

1.
1. To move in a lively or bouncy manner: The children flounced around the room in their costumes.
2. To move with exaggerated or affected motions: flounced petulantly out of the house.
2. To move clumsily; flounder.

n.

The act or motion of flouncing.

571 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:49:58pm

re: #554 theheat

And because a lot of stuff could be found with parental controls in place, I'd be damned if my six year old would surf the net without me over their shoulder.

AIDS is a global problem, a global killer. Many children are born with AIDS, or to a parent with AIDS. Pretending it doesn't exist, or being a hush word, doesn't make it less real. I don't find Obama including it as a disease next to cancer as agenda-driven. It's only naughty if people want to believe it is.

Now, if he'd mentioned dinosaurs being around millions of years ago, then I'd really be upset...

Quite Concur. Kids shouldn't need to know the broad outlines of what AIDS is, but the world being what it is, they do in fact need to know.

572 Claire  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:50:16pm

re: #452 Charles

Why would you trust anything a Truther or a John Bircher had to say about anything?

I don't believe I would trust them. I don't take anybody's word for anything these days at first glance... But I would have to know whether they are one or not. Unless a truther talks about being a truther, how would the audience know that everything else he says is suspect? Are they hiding the lunatic part or are they being overt about it? If they are hiding it, I'm not surprised people stay and listen. If they are overt about it, I'm very surprised people don't leave in droves.

573 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:50:57pm

re: #570 wrenchwench

I believe it's combination between a bounce-off, upskirt, heave-ho, combined with a backhanded giving of the finger.

574 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:51:12pm

re: #567 SanFranciscoZionist

Cancer and AIDS? Sure. They know people get sick.

I never said that. I was speaking of AIDS only. I'm too whacked to repeat my opinions. I'm sorry.

575 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:51:26pm

re: #570 wrenchwench

Synonyms:
fling, jerk, mince, nancy, prance, sashay, spring, stamp, storm, strut, swish, throw, toss

576 FrogMarch  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:51:43pm

re: #449 Salamantis

Great minds discuss ideas, mediocre minds are captivated by events, and small minds are mesmerized by personalities.

I like that.

577 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:51:47pm

re: #563 shimoda

I need to ask you Engrish Speaking People.
What does flounce mean in LGF-context?

Confused Am I

IMHO, it means to leave in a very theatrical, even melodramatic manner, with fanfares and flourishes, loudly calling attention to oneself.

578 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:51:58pm

re: #409 sattv4u2

Our jobs suck, don't they? The things we have to look at day in and day out!

and she's with your "home" team

579 pat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:52:21pm

ACLU : Smelly people protected by 14 Amendment. City may not ban those who smell like feces and urine from city buses and libraries.
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

580 Erik The Red  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:52:40pm

re: #498 MandyManners

I don't. Elementary students don't need to know about it. He could say "other fatal illnesses" or something similiar.

Hey 2M. I can see where you are coming from. My two girls have known about the dangers of AIDS almost since birth. We made it age appropriate but they knew. But that goes with living in Southern Africa. He needs to know of the dangers. It is a killer.

581 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:52:43pm

re: #547 itellu3times

Well, if I were running for office, I'd have to change it, I guess, to something like sisepuede69.

/hey waitaminute, se peude is reflexive and not plural, so what's this translation "yes we can" anyway?

Si, podemos, I think.

582 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:52:44pm

re: #575 jaunte

Synonyms:
fling, jerk, mince, nancy, prance, sashay, spring, stamp, storm, strut, swish, throw, toss

I'm looking for that link to the big guy in the tutu...

583 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:52:44pm

Going to take a walk along the Platte BBL...

584 Izzyboy  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:52:50pm

The worst part of the speech:

I hope you’ll all wash your hands a lot, and stay home from school when you don’t feel well, so we can keep people from getting the flu this fall and winter.

So now we'll have this "I feel sick and the President said I don't have to go to school!" epidemic! BRAINWASHING I TELL YOU!

///

In seriousness, there's nothing wrong with the speech, but I'm sure the parsers are hard at work already.

585 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:53:04pm

re: #550 Salamantis

The problem with analogies is they're a weak form of argument.

We have truthers speaking at tax rallies, inviting folks to come and hear them speak. People do. Now they have legitimacy. People don't have a problem with this.

However- the President should probably not go with the emailed truther's idea on healthcare. The reason being that even a whiff of trutherism brought down a czar.

It's not my problem the standard isn't being applied equally. If it's good enough for Van Jones- it's good enough for the tea parties.

586 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:53:38pm
587 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:53:39pm

re: #578 _RememberTonyC

and she's with your "home" team

I know ,,, but have you ever seen the ones from the Chargers

OMFW !

588 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:53:53pm

Hi lizards. Enjoying a massive family reunion right now (no moonbats!) although Crown Heights is an open air insane asylum right now, streets are blocked off all over the place because of the "Caribbean Pride" parade. It took us THREE FREAKING HOURS to get from JFK airport to my son's house. When we were one block from my daughter's house AND TROY AVENUE WAS CORDONED OFF I just freaked out, stomped out of our rental car and walked to my daughter's apartment.

Try explaining to New York's Finest that we are elderly, disabled people from out of town, subject to panic attacks. This cause a response of "keep moving!" If one of us had a heart attack one block from a cordoned off street we could have gotten a ride to the hospital, paid for by our insurance.

The Caribbean Pride Parade featured a number of scantily clad "native dancers" who were, uh, quite generously endowed in their bottom parts.

589 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:54:04pm

re: #551 LudwigVanQuixote

No Charles don't you know that teaching about AIDS will only encourage teens to have sex?

I still can't forgive the religious right for that.

Better to have dead teens as object lessons than live ones who aren't virgins... as if you can stop a teen from thinking about sex by telling them not to anyway.

Absolutely. Don't even get me started on that. And it's reasoning (and results) that are exactly like that behind the freakout over the HPV vaccine ("Teen girls will be MORE likely to have sex if they know they're less likely to get cervical cancer!"--yeah right. It's a better idea for your daughter to have a higher liklihood of contracting cancer. )
It's also similar to the 'reasoning' behind blocking non-surgical abortion such as RU-486, and making emergency contraception available without a prescription. Because if we make abortion and preventing pregnancy easier, less dangerous, and less painful, those women will just start having sex more! And we can't have that, can we?

I find it increasingly ironic that Ramesh Ponnuru thought it was fitting to call the Democratic Party the Party of Death, when it's the wacked out theocrats on the right that would rather see people die or suffer than have safe sex.

590 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:54:10pm

re: #572 Claire

I don't believe I would trust them. I don't take anybody's word for anything these days at first glance... But I would have to know whether they are one or not. Unless a truther talks about being a truther, how would the audience know that everything else he says is suspect? Are they hiding the lunatic part or are they being overt about it? If they are hiding it, I'm not surprised people stay and listen. If they are overt about it, I'm very surprised people don't leave in droves.

There's absolutely nothing hidden about the links to Ron Paul and the John Birch Society. All you have to do is visit a Tea Party organizers' site -- the links are all over the place, right out in the open.

People just don't care.

591 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:54:19pm

re: #580 Erik The Red

Hey 2M. I can see where you are coming from. My two girls have known about the dangers of AIDS almost since birth. We made it age appropriate but they knew. But that goes with living in Southern Africa. He needs to know of the dangers. It is a killer.

For me, it's cultural. Your kids were raised in an area in which it is rampant but, it's not here.

592 avanti  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:54:43pm

re: #569 MandyManners

I don't disagree with the majority of what you wrote but, the exposure to that knowledge should be controlled by the parents.

That much control would involve home schooling, no radio or TV, maybe no interaction with their peers.

593 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:54:55pm

re: #574 MandyManners

I never said that. I was speaking of AIDS only. I'm too whacked to repeat my opinions. I'm sorry.

OK, gotcha. Disagree, but that's OK.

594 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:55:08pm

re: #565 LudwigVanQuixote

The rest are assured that if they pay their tuition, they will receive dumbed down classes and a passing grade if they show up at least 50% of the time.

thanks.
So the short answer is that a bucket load of tax money (state and federal sources) is being pissed away.

Just interesting background

595 WestTexas  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:55:20pm

Happy Labor Day all,

I love the socialist worker's paradise or glorious comrades have created for us.
/s

Seriously though, I read the prepared text and found nothing wrong with it. It was straight forward, and hopefully will inspire many children in tough situations. I barely graduated high school due to living on my own my senior year. I managed to make it through and am still continuing my education, albeit slowly. Any morale boast that can be given children in tough times is a good thing. I think some people just need to take a deep breath. Even myself from time to time.

596 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:55:55pm

re: #569 MandyManners

Let's say a child in your child's Kindergarten class has a parent with AIDS, or an uncle with AIDS, or an older sister. Again, "Mom, what's AIDS?" It's really no different than so-and-so's mom has breast cancer, Lance Armstrong had testicular cancer, or so-and-so's mom had cervical cancer.

It's gonna come up, sooner or later. The details and how it's explained are up to the parent, sure, but it's out there from the time a kid is even a little bit socialized. If there's a stigma about it, that doesn't change the fact it's real, and it's out there.

597 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:55:59pm

re: #585 Sharmuta

The problem with analogies is they're a weak form of argument.

[snip]

You're right, when the analogy is like comparing Obama to Hilter, bad analogy, Glenn Beck to Obama, not much difference.

598 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:56:02pm

re: #588 Alouette

Enjoy!

599 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:56:02pm

re: #592 avanti

That much control would involve home schooling, no radio or TV, maybe no interaction with their peers.

No, it would not.

600 J.S.  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:56:45pm

As I mentioned in a previous post, I don't care about the content of the speech. And, if it had simply been "The POTUS gives a speech to school children", I'd say, "So what." The "problems" were with the Federal gov website which listed "activities" which were suggested that teachers engage in after the speech. The activities which encouraged students to express how they felt about Obama's speech were problematic (the Feds have since removed these suggestions.) The reason certain assignments were problematic (imo) is that there is an ethical (Professional) Code for public school teachers which states (among other things) that students are not, repeat not, to be given "an advantage" (nor disadvantaged) due to the expression of a political opinion. In other words, if a student comes out and exclaims: "This was the best speech evah! I just love Obama! He's sooo cool!" and writes a letter to the Prez to that effect; this student cannot be "favored" over a student who expresses a less than Politically Correct sentiment in a similar letter to the Prez. Anyway, that was the problem as I see it...

601 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:56:54pm

re: #584 Izzyboy

The worst part of the speech:


So now we'll have this "I feel sick and the President said I don't have to go to school!" epidemic! BRAINWASHING I TELL YOU!

///

In seriousness, there's nothing wrong with the speech, but I'm sure the parsers are hard at work already.

Father B., our director, told the freshmen that this year at opening assembly. We have some pregnant staff, and want to avoid a huge flu breakout.

602 MacDuff  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:57:01pm

re: #550 Salamantis

Imagine you are President, and someone anonymously emailed you a breathtakingly solid way to supply everyone with health care without raising anyone's taxes or infringing upon the freedom of choice of any medical consumers.

However, on the eve of giving a national speech unveiling this wondrous solution, the NSA informs you that they've traced the email back to someone who once signed a Truther petition.

With all due respect, it doesn't work as a thought experiment, for me, in that the whole basis is false; it's like saying "imagine someone sent you an email with the formula for turning lead into gold"

603 shimoda  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:57:57pm

re: #577 pre-Boomer Marine brat

IMHO, it means to leave in a very theatrical, even melodramatic manner, with fanfares and flourishes, loudly calling attention to oneself.

I see. The things you learn on The Intraweb!

Bye now. Time for bed. Time here in The Land of a 1000 Lakes is 23:57.
Info for 24 h challenged folks: That's very late.

604 FrogMarch  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:58:00pm

ot:
Male Morph-o-rama.

605 Joshua Cohen  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:58:05pm

re: #190 zeir

Nekama means "revenge" in Hebrew. Revenge on whom, pray tell?

Could also be Japanese. There's nekama, a fusion of "Net" and "okama"(Japanese for an effeminate homosexual), used to describe a man who logs on posing as a woman.

And I am sure there are other languages and other intentions out there.

BTW: My head got a full hit today at the Dojo and so everything sounds a bit Japanese to me this evening.
Lack of control - damn rainbow color belts!

606 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:58:53pm

re: #592 avanti

That much control would involve home schooling, no radio or TV, maybe no interaction with their peers.

Television Statistics

Number of murders seen on TV by the time an average child finishes elementary school: 8,000
Number of violent acts seen on TV by age 18: 200,000

607 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:59:56pm

It's time to get serious about dinner. Maybe I'll be more coherent and articulate after dinner. Maybe I'll fall asleep in my orange sorbet. Whichever, I hope you have a nice afternoon, Lizards.

608 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:00:06pm

Paranoia strikes deep/Into your life it will creep

It starts when you're always afraid/You step out of line, the man come and take you away

We better stop, hey, what's that sound/Everybody look what's going down

/I'm afeard of the man behind the teleprompter, yes I am...

609 StillAMarine  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:00:29pm

re: #43 Sharmuta

I'll set aside my snarkiness for a moment to say something important.

This is something that every child in this country should hear, because in this one segment- the history of America echos. Men and women from across the globe have come here and written their own destinies. They had children who went on to write their own destinies. And more come to our shores every day with this same hope- the promise of opportunity.

For those holding their children back from school so they can avoid this now apparently horrible message- shame on you. You spit on the men and women who define the American Dream, you spit on those who have defended the American Dream, and you rob your children of the opportunity to ponder this Dream tomorrow. It's about the most un-American thing I've seen in many years. Beyond disappointing.

I could not agree more. It is a fact that having a black person in the White House has been an positive inspiration for many young, black U.S. citizens. I welcome our president's leverage of that fact to inspire our children.
But what about the hoopla and paranoia that Obama's speaking to our children? This indicates less a symptom of loon ism than an indication of the fact that Obama has lost the trust of a large segment of the U.S. population. And whose fault is it that he has lost this trust? Perhaps too many of us recall the questionable associations of Obama with people like Bill Ayers, Reverend Wright, et al, along with the astounding narcissism and profligate spending of our tax money that Obama has demonstrated to all of us. Can the paranoid be blamed for being paranoid?

610 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:00:50pm

re: #585 Sharmuta

The problem with analogies is they're a weak form of argument.

We have truthers speaking at tax rallies, inviting folks to come and hear them speak. People do. Now they have legitimacy. People don't have a problem with this.

However- the President should probably not go with the emailed truther's idea on healthcare. The reason being that even a whiff of trutherism brought down a czar.

It's not my problem the standard isn't being applied equally. If it's good enough for Van Jones- it's good enough for the tea parties.

Exactly my point. People here have been arguing that such a standard should NOT apply to Van Jones, because he's not out making Truther speeches. So it shouldn't apply to Tea Party speakers, either, unless and until they make Tea Party speeches as objectionable.

I won't apply a double standard. And I refuse to accept one.

Enough of gotcha politics - from both sides.

611 Erik The Red  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:01:31pm

re: #591 MandyManners

For me, it's cultural. Your kids were raised in an area in which it is rampant but, it's not here.

Just educate about the dangers of blood transfer. Use that angle to explain what HIV and AIDS is. My two girls have no idea that its mainly spread by sex. Hell my two girls think me and Mrs Red have had sex only twice. :)

612 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:01:41pm

re: #562 sattv4u2

And part of the curiculum is teaching the results of NCLB? Do you teach an ed course, because I don't see how the results of that would come up in a science class. Also, please answer # 537

NO, and you really are intentionally being an ass.

Part of the curriculum is that physics 1 used to have calculus as a pre-req for all students... But the kids couldn't be bothered to learn calculus.

So we made 5 different levels of watered down physics. Physics for pre-meds requires trig. About 1/3 of them have actually mastered it before getting to me. Of those kids, a fair number can learn trig well, but they were just never taught it properly before getting to me.

Then there is physics for the education majors and other lesser classes. We cover such topics as why you should not lick wall sockets and which way is up.

Across the board, writing skills have deteriorated significantly to boot, and in the course of talking with them, their basic knowledge is abysmal. I had a student ask me once when the second world war was, who was in it, and who won. She believed it would save her a trip to the library. She had a paper to write, and her really mean teacher wouldn't tell her.

OK, so don't even dream of telling me about education in this nation.

Shut up and learn.

As to the bill and Kennedy's intent, no the effects of what the GOP did to it were not his intent.

613 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:02:21pm

I would say real commies and van jones was on don't have any more of a clue how to run our gov't than truthers.

614 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:02:32pm

re: #610 Salamantis

Exactly my point. People here have been arguing that such a standard should NOT apply to Van Jones, because he's not out making Truther speeches. So it shouldn't apply to Tea Party speakers, either, unless and until they make Tea Party speeches as objectionable.

I won't apply a double standard. And I refuse to accept one.

Enough of gotcha politics - from both sides.

Sorry, that's just wrong. The accusation against Van Jones had no support, except from Truther sites and hate sites like rense.com.

The Truthers, Birchers, and Ron Paul drones behind the tea parties are absolutely, unquestionably real.

615 Randall Gross  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:02:52pm

re: #605 Joshua Cohen

Could also be Japanese. There's nekama, a fusion of "Net" and "okama"(Japanese for an effeminate homosexual), used to describe a man who logs on posing as a woman.

And I am sure there are other languages and other intentions out there.

BTW: My head got a full hit today at the Dojo and so everything sounds a bit Japanese to me this evening.
Lack of control - damn rainbow color belts!

If you are wondering about Nekama, reference the sidebar under resources, he has a special entry there.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

616 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:03:35pm

re: #602 MacDuff

With all due respect, it doesn't work as a thought experiment, for me, in that the whole basis is false; it's like saying "imagine someone sent you an email with the formula for turning lead into gold"

Substitute your more plausible premise, then; the conclusion still follows.

As a pagan, I have a natural aversion to witch hunts regardless of who is engaging in them.

617 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:03:47pm

re: #611 Erik The Red

I don't know if anyone has ever compiled a list, but probably some of the most awkward questions or comments ever made about sex have come from the mouths of babes. And by far, the funniest.

618 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:03:55pm

re: #609 StillAMarine

But what about the hoopla and paranoia that Obama's speaking to our children?

What are you talking about? Did you read the speech? What "paranoia?"

619 Irenike  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:04:37pm

re: #497 iceweasel

So, Ice, did ya like my post or what?

And you have zero basis for this parallel universe anyway, given that Bush DID give speeches to schoolkids and there WAS NO freakout.

You are right that I can't do a parallel universe and test out the GWB condition. But what makes Obama's speech different is the fanfare of addressing all students, simultaneously, as one massive audience. When did GWB do that? He went on tour making speeches to individual schools. But when did he specifically make a nationally televised speech, targeted to the student collective as a whole, complete with a syllabus recommendation from the Dept. of Education?

Are you saying that making a hypothesis about an alternative condition, based on past behavior that one has observed in a particular group (namely, leftist Democrats) is verboten? Like we've never seen double standards applied to Republicans versus Democrats. That was my point.

One symptom of this is that you can find ANYTHING 'dismaying' about the idea of Obama as a role model for black inner city youths. Exactly who do you think they should emulate? Maybe they can relate better to Dick Cheney? Maybe none of them can find anything admirable, or anything to relate to, in a story about a black kid abandoned by his father who grew up to be POTUS?

You didn't address my point about the fact that the ideas that Obama holds are responsible for the breakdown among inner city blacks. That's okay. I know the evidence is on my side.

On a philosophical note, why are blacks the only group deemed to need role models? And how exactly is a black president going to magically translate into better values in the inner city? The only way this will happen is if Obama convinces them to act upon better values. He will have to tell black inner-city youth the same things conservatives have been saying for decades: get off of welfare, stop blaming other people for your problems and start taking some personal responsibility, join a church if that gives you the strength to say no to drugs and violence, don't have babies out of wedlock, stay married to the father of your children, don't let yourself be polluted by the values of gangsta culture. If he can do this successfully, I would personally nominate the man for a Noble Peace Prize.

My whole life, I have heard that if only we had more black mayors, congressmen, policemen, teachers, firefighters, blacks would have great role models. I grew up in an inner city, and I simply could not see any evidence that black cops patrolling our streets made some of the gang-bangers want to clean up their act. The cops were the enemy, regardless of the color of their skin.

To paraphrase MLK once again, I think black youths should choose role models based on the content of a person's character, not the color of their skin. But if you want my recommendation for excellent black role models, here goes: Martin Luther King, Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, Shelby Steele, Larry Elder. Any one of these guys has a history of advocating ideas and values that are far, far superior to those I've heard coming out of Obama's mouth.

620 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:04:50pm

re: #594 Van Helsing

thanks.
So the short answer is that a bucket load of tax money (state and federal sources) is being pissed away.

Just interesting background

Pissed away in the same sense that if you want a job done, you can pay to do it right, or you can pay more to do it twice by doing shoddy work both times. We keep accepting the shoddy work.

621 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:05:21pm

re: #600 J.S.

ethical (Professional) Code for public school teachers which states (among other things) that students are not, repeat not, to be given "an advantage" (nor disadvantaged) due to the expression of a political opinion.


Does it say anything about badgering them? Cuz this couldn't happen...

622 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:06:29pm

re: #610 Salamantis

If you were invited to a speech and found out the person speaking was a truther or a fascist- would you want to hear what they had to say?

623 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:06:41pm

re: #614 Charles

Sorry, that's just wrong. The accusation against Van Jones had no support, except from Truther sites and hate sites like rense.com.

The Truthers, Birchers, and Ron Paul drones behind the tea parties are absolutely, unquestionably real.

I don't doubt that they are real. But I wouldn't expect Tea Partiers to walk away in droves if the speeches they heard were not Truther, Bircher or Paulian. I would hope that they would walk away if such elements entered their remarks.

624 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:06:56pm

re: #612 LudwigVanQuixote

Then there is physics for the education majors and other lesser classes. We cover such topics as why you should not lick wall sockets and which way is up.

That was funny!!

I really should be working...

625 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:07:11pm

re: #596 theheat

Let's say a child in your child's Kindergarten class has a parent with AIDS, or an uncle with AIDS, or an older sister. Again, "Mom, what's AIDS?" It's really no different than so-and-so's mom has breast cancer, Lance Armstrong had testicular cancer, or so-and-so's mom had cervical cancer.

It's gonna come up, sooner or later. The details and how it's explained are up to the parent, sure, but it's out there from the time a kid is even a little bit socialized. If there's a stigma about it, that doesn't change the fact it's real, and it's out there.

Part of the problem is that it is still, incorrectly, seen as a disease that affects gay men. Don't forget that the original name for it was GRID: Gay Related Immune Deficiency. The name wasn't changed out of political correctness, but to reflect its inaccuracy. But that is the stigma still attached to it.

In fact, the highest rates of infection are occurring among heterosexual women.

626 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:07:46pm

re: #624 Van Helsing

That was funny!!

I really should be working...

Tragicomic and true unfortunately.

627 StillAMarine  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:07:52pm

re: #618 Charles

It seems to me that many thought that Obama was going to indoctrinate our young innocents into a state of socialism just by talking to them.
Paranoia? You decide.

628 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:08:14pm

re: #623 Salamantis

I don't doubt that they are real. But I wouldn't expect Tea Partiers to walk away in droves if the speeches they heard were not Truther, Bircher or Paulian. I would hope that they would walk away if such elements entered their remarks.

I've seen numerous videos of tea parties in which speakers made absolutely no secret of their support for Ron Paul. I just watched one in which a speaker was an outright anti-government militia member.

The audience cheered. Nobody walked out.

629 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:09:11pm

re: #623 Salamantis

I don't doubt that they are real. But I wouldn't expect Tea Partiers to walk away in droves if the speeches they heard were not Truther, Bircher or Paulian. I would hope that they would walk away if such elements entered their remarks.

I don't think people know about the problems with birchers and paulians, so why would they walk out?

630 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:10:06pm

re: #623 Salamantis

I don't doubt that they are real. But I wouldn't expect Tea Partiers to walk away in droves if the speeches they heard were not Truther, Bircher or Paulian. I would hope that they would walk away if such elements entered their remarks.

I don't know what to think about those who attend the events, donate on the websites, receive and act upon the emails, and yet won't research, nor accept anyone else's research, on the backgrounds of the organizers.

Actually, I do know what to think of them. I'm too polite to say it here.

631 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:10:17pm

re: #622 Sharmuta

If you were invited to a speech and found out the person speaking was a truther or a fascist- would you want to hear what they had to say?

Not about trutherism or fascism. About how to persuade illegal immigrants to voluntaily leave our nation without our having to engage in midnight house-to-house roundups, why not?

632 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:11:16pm

re: #631 Salamantis

Not about trutherism or fascism. About how to persuade illegal immigrants to voluntaily leave our nation without our having to engage in midnight house-to-house roundups, why not?

WTF, Sal? Why the hell would you want to listen to a fascist discuss immigration?

633 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:11:17pm

re: #614 Charles

he was a communist, he supports freeing a known cop killer mumia, and is a known anti semite.
that he signed an anti bush piece of propaganda with out understanding its true intent some who signed it say they thought they were just signing something to investicage bush handling of it so they were blinded by there BDS. I really am not sure if i accept his denial or not. might be true or it might be CYA

634 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:11:37pm

re: #628 Charles

I've seen numerous videos of tea parties in which speakers made absolutely no secret of their support for Ron Paul. I just watched one in which a speaker was an outright anti-government militia member.

The audience cheered. Nobody walked out.

That I have big problems with.

But that is also not the premise I was proferring.

635 Joshua Cohen  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:12:40pm

re: #615 Thanos

If you are wondering about Nekama, reference the sidebar under resources, he has a special entry there.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Mkay.

Note to myself and anybody else: Head does hurt! More than other parts of the body...ok, maybe not as much as the special parts ;)

636 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:12:47pm

re: #627 StillAMarine

It seems to me that many thought that Obama was going to indoctrinate our young innocents into a state of socialism just by talking to them.
Paranoia? You decide.

Yes, it was/is paranoia. People let their distrust and loathing of Barack Obama get the better of them and they assumed that anything he would say would be an attack on America and its traditions. They saw Obama as a demon and forgot the man he really is. I have major differences with him on education and on many other issues. But there is nothing wrong with this speech. If I criticize Obama in relation to the speech it will be if he fails to live up to his ideals that he proclaimed in it. The speech itself is just fine.

637 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:12:47pm

re: #625 iceweasel

Exactly: global killer. If people are afraid to speak about it because they think it's only a gay sexual thing, well, they're sorely mistaken.

638 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:13:33pm

re: #632 Sharmuta

WTF, Sal? Why the hell would you want to listen to a fascist discuss immigration?

Because his immigration idea might be nonfascist.

The moment it became fascist, I'd be heading for the door. Or, more likely, to the mike platform to denounce him.

639 WestTexas  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:13:36pm

Ok folks, hate post and run, but I'm with the family. You guys stay scaly. :-)

640 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:13:45pm

re: #634 Salamantis

That I have big problems with.

But that is also not the premise I was proferring.

No, you're saying that the attendees don't know about the connections. I'm saying that a lot of them certainly DO know, because speakers at the tea parties are making no attempt to hide it.

641 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:14:00pm

re: #629 Sharmuta

I don't think people know about the problems with birchers and paulians, so why would they walk out?

I'm actually surprised that the MSM has not jumped in with a two-feet Tea Party expose. Seems like this a drum they would really like to beat. Is the NY Times falling down on the job, or just playing out lots of rope?

642 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:14:14pm

re: #628 Charles

Some people are starting to get a little uncomfortable. I just stumbled across this guy...
SHOULD I GO TO THE TEA PARTY IN WASHINGTON DC?

The Tea Party Express will arrive in our nation’s capital on September 12th. As much as I approve of the cause, I do not like some of the symbolism. The logo the organizers have chosen gives me the willies (see below).

fistsThe organizers explain their reason for the clenched fists here (first frequently asked question). I think the clenched fists ill-advised. This dictionary definition explains why. The symbol of the clenched fist is commonly used by leftists (see here), and it is often associated with violence.

Frankly, I think the fist a stupid choice. Without any allusions to violence, a simple picture of the Constitution would frighten our congressmen far more. Unfortunately, Conservatives are amateurs at symbolism.

Indeed. The Official Tea Party explanation comes from Rules For Radicals...

We’ve been studying and applying the tactics of the left for a long time, and although we despise their bad ideas, they have us beat when it comes to symbolism, activism and dominating the public debate. We can learn from them and co-opt their symbols, some of their messages and even their tactics.
...
If we want the politicians to pay attention, we believe it is imperative that we keep our edge, tailor our message narrowly and maintain the populist imagery.

643 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:14:34pm

re: #612 LudwigVanQuixote

NO, and you really are intentionally being an ass.

Part of the curriculum is that physics 1 used to have calculus as a pre-req for all students... But the kids couldn't be bothered to learn calculus.

So we made 5 different levels of watered down physics. Physics for pre-meds requires trig. About 1/3 of them have actually mastered it before getting to me. Of those kids, a fair number can learn trig well, but they were just never taught it properly before getting to me.

Then there is physics for the education majors and other lesser classes. We cover such topics as why you should not lick wall sockets and which way is up.

Across the board, writing skills have deteriorated significantly to boot, and in the course of talking with them, their basic knowledge is abysmal. I had a student ask me once when the second world war was, who was in it, and who won. She believed it would save her a trip to the library. She had a paper to write, and her really mean teacher wouldn't tell her.

OK, so don't even dream of telling me about education in this nation.

Shut up and learn.

As to the bill and Kennedy's intent, no the effects of what the GOP did to it were not his intent.


#1, you really should do something about your anger management problem.AZnytime someone here disagrees with you without being disagreeable you throw in the name calling and put downs
#2 , You stated that you "TEACH THE RESULTS" of NCLB. What you posted above is not "teaching the results", it's altering the course structure to the affects
# 3. Kennedy seemed very pleasee with the final result of NCLB. It had OVERWHELMING BIPARTISAN support, so of course becuase it went to shit you reflexively blame"what the GOP did to it"
#4 as a former school board member, as a former VP for 2 different PUBLIC school systems PTA's , as the husband of a teacher for the past 26 years, I'll speak on Ed with some knowledge and authority!

(and I did all that without name calling or assumptive put downs)) (OOOPPPSSS))

644 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:14:40pm

re: #638 Salamantis

Because his immigration idea might be nonfascist.

The moment it became fascist, I'd be heading for the door. Or, more likely, to the mike platform to denounce him.

If you already know he's a fascists- why give him the time of day for anything?

645 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:14:42pm

re: #631 Salamantis

Not about trutherism or fascism. About how to persuade illegal immigrants to voluntaily leave our nation without our having to engage in midnight house-to-house roundups, why not?

Not such a good idea Sal. Many of those folks don't have firm grip on reality, and their ideas are liable to prove badly flawed. Further, those who oppose you will tar you for associating with them.

646 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:15:30pm

re: #642 Killgore Trout

Some people are starting to get a little uncomfortable. I just stumbled across this guy...
SHOULD I GO TO THE TEA PARTY IN WASHINGTON DC?

Wow. Now the logo is a clenched fist.

This is going downhill really fast.

647 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:15:43pm

re: #640 Charles

No, you're saying that the attendees don't know about the connections. I'm saying that a lot of them certainly DO know, because speakers at the tea parties are making no attempt to hide it.

And I would not go to a Tea party that was designed by such people to promiote Paulian or Bircher or fascist or Truther propaganda.

648 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:15:44pm

Damn, Sal- let's go hear David Duke speak. Maybe he has some good ideas about something.

649 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:15:50pm

re: #619 Irenike

So, Ice, did ya like my post or what?

This?

Are you saying that making a hypothesis about an alternative condition, based on past behavior that one has observed in a particular group (namely, leftist Democrats) is verboten? Like we've never seen double standards applied to Republicans versus Democrats. That was my point.

No, I said that it was and is ludicrous for you to get upset about your imaginary world. It's no different than people getting angry about their fantasy of what was originally in Obama's speech.
And for the rest of your post, I find it disingenuous at best and dishonest at worst to claim that anyone is saying that black people are the only people in need of role models.

I don't see the point in debating you over your claim that "Obama's ideals are responsible for the plight of innercity black youth!" because that is a profoundly stupid statement. Race in America is very complicated and there have been many factors historically, socially, and culturally, as well as policy decisions from both sides of the aisle, that have contributed to the situation.

650 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:16:26pm

re: #641 The Shadow Do

I'm actually surprised that the MSM has not jumped in with a two-feet Tea Party expose. Seems like this a drum they would really like to beat. Is the NY Times falling down on the job, or just playing out lots of rope?

I'm not sure. The MSM isn't very bright especially when it comes to internet stuff, googling, etc. If it's not spelled out for them on a Wiki page they can't piece things together on their own.

651 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:17:06pm

re: #644 Sharmuta

If you already know he's a fascists- why give him the time of day for anything?

Einstein was wrong about quantum mechanics; why should I give him the time of day on relativity?

652 StillAMarine  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:17:10pm

re: #636 Dark_Falcon

Yes, it was/is paranoia. People let their distrust and loathing of Barack Obama get the better of them and they assumed that anything he would say would be an attack on America and its traditions. They saw Obama as a demon and forgot the man he really is. I have major differences with him on education and on many other issues. But there is nothing wrong with this speech. If I criticize Obama in relation to the speech it will be if he fails to live up to his ideals that he proclaimed in it. The speech itself is just fine.

Exactly. There was absolutely nothing wrong about the speech. As a matter of fact I wholeheartedly am glad he gave it. Being a black President of the United States gave him a hell of a lot of leverage to inspire our young people, especially young, black people. Thank you, Obama, for doing something right.
However, the paranoia that some demonstrated to his giving the talk is an indication that Obama has lost the trust of a huge segment of the population. Whose fault is that?

653 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:17:14pm

re: #642 Killgore Trout

Some people are starting to get a little uncomfortable. I just stumbled across this guy...
SHOULD I GO TO THE TEA PARTY IN WASHINGTON DC?

I keep saying Rules for Radicals- Right Wing Version. It's true.

654 Claire  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:17:16pm

re: #590 Charles

Well, I care, but I must live in a bubble- can't find anything like that on the organizers site for my town (or the rest of the state for that matter.) Maybe we are just lucky to have level-headed people living here.

655 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:17:42pm

re: #642 Killgore Trout

Frankly, I think the fist a stupid choice. Without any allusions to violence, a simple picture of the Constitution would frighten our congressmen far more. Unfortunately, Conservatives are amateurs at symbolism.


Sadly Killgore, I don't think most of them would know WTF the point was...

656 mrbaracuda  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:17:53pm

Evening Lizards!
Why, this is a nice speech.

657 Ojoe  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:17:57pm

Towercam! Big smoke plume, it looks like a volcano.

It's not a volcano, but that would be interesting.

There is a dormant volcano on the east side of the Sierra though; some day it will erupt.

658 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:18:13pm

re: #646 Charles

At first I thought the guy was being overly sensitive but their own explanation is that they're intentionally borrowing radical leftist imagery. I guess they think it's a good idea.

659 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:18:34pm

re: #631 Salamantis

Not about trutherism or fascism. About how to persuade illegal immigrants to voluntaily leave our nation without our having to engage in midnight house-to-house roundups, why not?

Put up those fake owls on houses. Illegal immigrants are scared of owls, and won't build nests if they think there's one nearby.

/wait, that doesn't sound right

660 Shug  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:18:36pm

getting fisted in DC.

some things never change

661 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:19:05pm

re: #647 Salamantis

And I would not go to a Tea party that was designed by such people to promiote Paulian or Bircher or fascist or Truther propaganda.

And that, Sal, would keep you out of pretty much all of them. At first, I supported Tea Party rallies, but it is clear to me that they are now tainted beyond use.

662 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:19:13pm

re: #651 Salamantis

Einstein was wrong about quantum mechanics; why should I give him the time of day on relativity?

It's called the ability to discriminate. You know what's right and wrong on the science because you can look at the evidence. In politics, the evidence suggests that fascists and assholes shouldn't be given large political movements to lead.

663 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:19:37pm

re: #648 Sharmuta

Damn, Sal- let's go hear David Duke speak. Maybe he has some good ideas about something.

I already know what David Duke would have to say. He has never presented any feasible ideas, and I wouldn't expect him to start now.

Some people however, have both good things and bad things to say. Obama, for instance.

And, according to many here, Van Jones.

664 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:19:41pm

THANKS ICE

So what in #643 was unreaonable or objectionable or false?

665 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:19:43pm

re: #643 sattv4u2

#1, you really should do something about your anger management problem.AZnytime someone here disagrees with you without being disagreeable you throw in the name calling and put downs
#2 , You stated that you "TEACH THE RESULTS" of NCLB. What you posted above is not "teaching the results", it's altering the course structure to the affects
# 3. Kennedy seemed very pleasee with the final result of NCLB. It had OVERWHELMING BIPARTISAN support, so of course becuase it went to shit you reflexively blame"what the GOP did to it"
#4 as a former school board member, as a former VP for 2 different PUBLIC school systems PTA's , as the husband of a teacher for the past 26 years, I'll speak on Ed with some knowledge and authority!

(and I did all that without name calling or assumptive put downs)) (OOOPPPSSS))

That's true you did it with a disrespectful and pejorative tone and a bunch of pedantic word games that refused to see my point. Just as you did now. That makes you an insulting ass.

Now the fact is that I don not believe that you are so stupid as to be so hyper literal as to fail to see that teaching the "results of the program" meant teaching the resulting students that come out of our primary students.

Since I do not believe you are that stupid, I conclude that you are a moderately intelligent person who was willfully trying to be an ass.

666 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:19:51pm

the mushie middle generally don't go to protests and all protests tend to attract those with strong beliefs but I kind of remember that the MSM white washed to defeat america protests when they did cover them you never saw the anti semitic, bush is a nazi, or the A.N.S.W.E.R. communist posters generally you saw the most liberal and non extremist stuff.

i remember hearing about the speaker of the house calling mentioning a nazi refrence and a larouchie poster as if they were main stream republican view points. the truth is they were laruchie and not gop any more than A.N.S.W.E.R is democrat.

667 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:20:22pm

re: #655 Van Helsing

Sadly Killgore, I don't think most of them would know WTF the point was...


Agreed but not for the reason you might think. The claims that Obama is out of line with the constitution is fiction. Right wing radical have their own fantasies about what's in the Constitution but those of us in the real world abide by the Supreme Court's rulings as the founding fathers intended.

668 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:20:31pm

re: #657 Ojoe

Love those pics, Ojoe. Thanks for putting them up.

669 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:20:48pm

re: #651 Salamantis

Einstein was wrong about quantum mechanics; why should I give him the time of day on relativity?

Einstein wasn't evil about quantum mechanics. There's a difference.

670 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:21:36pm

re: #665 LudwigVanQuixote

That's true you did it with a disrespectful and pejorative tone and a bunch of pedantic word games that refused to see my point. Just as you did now. That makes you an insulting ass.

Now the fact is that I don not believe that you are so stupid as to be so hyper literal as to fail to see that teaching the "results of the program" meant teaching the resulting students that come out of our primary students.

Since I do not believe you are that stupid, I conclude that you are a moderately intelligent person who was willfully trying to be an ass.

re-read point #1
Thanks for verifying!

671 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:22:01pm

Sorry ...22 minutes late broken switch at...

I posted this comment on the perivious thread @92 and Charles answered @97. It is obviously labeled as snark.

Reginald Perrin Says
I'm a new member here and was curious about something.
How many comments does one have to post before they get a share of the big bucks George Soros paid to turn LGF into the mouthpiece of the Transnational Totalitarian Progressive Movement.

Hahahahaa?
///

Charles says:
Are you crazy! Pipe down, before Ace gets wise.


So I thought I would go down and check the stalker blog to see if my post rattled their cages. I was shocked to see that they all assumed my comment was made as an insult to Charles and was somehow a feather in Rodans cap because I used Rodan's weird expression, Transnational Totalitarian Progressive Movement.

#44 song_and_dance_man
There is something very funny that just happened over there. Read comment 92 and then the response a few lines down.
Hahahahaa

#46 savage
Snarky, ain’t he?

#54. song_and_dance_man
I thought it was humorous too because they picked up on Rodan’s coined term.

#56. song_and_dance_man
The commenter used Rodan’s term…
I think the commenter was slyly mocking 1.0.

# 58. Macker on 7 September, 2009 at 11:27 am reply
Yeah! Let’s see how fast selrahC gives him the stick.

# 61. song_and_dance_man on 7 September, 2009 at 11:31 am reply
Yep. Someone else has to notice the 2.0 reference

#67. Rodan
What is funny no one denies there’s a Transnational Totalitarian Progressive Movement. it is real and exists at all levels. My next post coming up in 20 minutes is more proof.

No Twajie, what was is funny is that you idiots see what you wanted to see, but unfortunately, what you see is not always reality. Sort of why far right wingers watch Colbert and think he is mocking Progressives
I think the deranged dunces @ da deuce have an irony deficiency in their diet

672 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:22:08pm

re: #646 Charles

Wow. Now the logo is a clenched fist.

This is going downhill really fast.

The Black Panthers have taken over the Tea Party movement?

673 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:22:12pm

re: #663 Salamantis

I already know what David Duke would have to say. He has never presented any feasible ideas, and I wouldn't expect him to start now.

Some people however, have both good things and bad things to say. Obama, for instance.

And, according to many here, Van Jones.

So- you're going to cut off David Duke and possibly miss some new ideas he has that might be good?

674 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:22:17pm

re: #643 sattv4u2

amen

675 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:23:13pm

re: #643 sattv4u2


#4 as a former school board member, as a former VP for 2 different PUBLIC school systems PTA's , as the husband of a teacher for the past 26 years, I'll speak on Ed with some knowledge and authority!

(and I did all that without name calling or assumptive put downs)) (OOOPPPSSS))

While we are at it, what are you doing on those PTA's? Do you think it is ok to make children learn to a test?

Do you think it is ok that they can't, at 18, do math that other nation's children master at 12?

Do you think it is OK that there are not enough teachers or books?

Do you like the way that the cannon gets dumbed down each passing several years?

If you have all of that experience, then why are you arguing with me?

You are there on the front lines seeing the mess I have to try to clean up.

676 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:23:51pm

re: #661 Dark_Falcon

And that, Sal, would keep you out of pretty much all of them. At first, I supported Tea Party rallies, but it is clear to me that they are now tainted beyond use.

Precisely why I didn't attend the Pensacola tea party, when I found out who was behind it. I was familiar with some of those characters from local politics; they were seamy.

But if someone with political opinions that I find loathsome were speaking at an event honoring an Iraqi war hero, I would quite possibly show up hoping they didn't try to sneak crapola like that into their encomium. If they did, they'd be seeing my ass headed out the door.

677 StillAMarine  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:24:41pm

re: #657 Ojoe

This is really heartbreaking. My prayers go to all the firefighters who are trying to control this disaster, and my heart goes out to all those who lost their homes and livelihoods to this inferno.

678 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:25:13pm

Have to run off to take the kids to the MIL's in a bit, but regarding the "school speech," there is a part of this I found annoying.

It's not the speech; frankly I expected it to be tapioca without even a hint of nutmeg. It's not the idea of the President speaking to school kids (though in this format it is unprecedented); frankly, it's a good thing for school kids to have a sense who the president is and what he does. No, what bugged me was the "study guide" sent out in advance. I really didn't like the whole "why aren't your parents involved" aspect of it. It sounded much to much like an effort to use kids to scold parents into volunteering for whatever programs the teacher (following the president's lead) might suggest.

School is for teaching, not for "community organizing," and given what I'm seeing coming out of the public schools, they need to spend a hell of a lot more time teaching the basics. But "service" has become more and more of a substitute for hard subjects at all levels. It started with colleges and has filtered down. And, in my experience, most "service projects" end up as empty-headed busy work with little, if any, academic content.

There are a couple of points about the current approach to education that this episode brings forward. These are still worth thinking about, and none of them require thinking along the lines of Glenn Beck or other alarmists:

1) To what extent is content being sacrificed in favor of "commitment"? The latter presumes that we know exactly what's wrong with the world and how to fix it. All we need to do is ACT. That attitude is prevalent on both extremes of the political perspective. But it's based on a false premise. We don't necessarily know what's wrong or what will fix it. But habituating students into an "activist" mindset works to make uninterested in debate and inquiry. Indeed, given the adolescent mindset, it makes them positively hostile to inquiry. And isn't that supposed to be the point of education?

2) The idea of using children to solve the world's problems is a coward's dodge. Hannah Arendt wrote an essay about this years ago, saying that there was something inherently inhumane about the way school desegregation was handled. Essentially, kids were being forced by the state to solve problems that their parents would not. That was asking a great deal of kids, demanding they be more thoughtful and mature than adults. Perhaps it reflects a Rousseauian faith in the inherent goodness of children; Arendt's point was that it really reflected cowardice.

679 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:25:55pm

Okay, so I just tuned in to Beck to check the gloat factor, and he's not having any of it so far... is this a repeat? I don't want to have to watch the whole thing just to find out...

680 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:25:59pm

re: #671 Reginald Perrin

I'd be cautious posting excerpts from the stalker blogs here of any length.

681 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:26:02pm

re: #676 Salamantis

Precisely why I didn't attend the Pensacola tea party, when I found out who was behind it. I was familiar with some of those characters from local politics; they were seamy.

But they might have some good ideas that now you're not listening to.

682 avanti  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:26:20pm

re: #642 Killgore Trout

Some people are starting to get a little uncomfortable. I just stumbled across this guy...
SHOULD I GO TO THE TEA PARTY IN WASHINGTON DC?

I find the link saying Sarah Palin may lead the Tea Party express into DC interesting.

683 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:26:43pm

re: #671 Reginald Perrin

What is funny no one denies there’s a Transnational Totalitarian Progressive Movement. it is real and exists at all levels.


Must. Adjust. Tinfoil.

684 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:27:05pm

re: #673 Sharmuta

So- you're going to cut off David Duke and possibly miss some new ideas he has that might be good?

You're much worse; you'd be willing to shitcan an already proffered great idea on health care that might help millions of Americans solely because you despise the politics of its source. Even if the idea had nothing whatsoever to do with those loathsome politics.

685 doubter4444  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:27:11pm

re: #134 Gus 802

In other words, "oh it might sound fine now but that's not what he originally wrote."

Give me a break. With that line of thinking the possible conspiracy theories are endless. Not only that but you went from re-writing the past in some alleged re-writing scenario to a future fictionalization.

But it's ok, because he said he has worked in politics, and knows how the game is played...

686 mich-again  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:27:55pm

re: #628 Charles

In the R primary races in 2012, the Birchers will be pushing hard for Ron Paul and latching up to his campaign and it will be telling to see if RP makes any attempt at all to distance himself from them or their nutty conspiracies. I say he won't.

But I notice the JBS website has been sanitized heavily in the last year or so. I wonder if there are screen captures from a couple years back. They used to have a page at their site that debunked the Reptillian conspiracy theory and claimed it as False. Most rational political organizations wouldn't see the need to clarify that for their members.

687 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:28:10pm

re: #682 avanti

I find the link saying Sarah Palin may lead the Tea Party express into DC interesting.

I've only ever gone to DC for a demonstration once, and I almost froze to death. Plus a weighted sign fell on me.

I was twelve, I think. I haven't tried it again.

688 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:28:16pm

re: #667 Killgore Trout

Actually the reason I would use the Constitution is the first 3 words of the preamble - "We the People"

Kinda try to remind them who they work for.
Keep them all from going Arlen - "I don't have to be here, I'm not getting paid extra" - Specter on us.

689 Ojoe  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:28:20pm

re: #668 Van Helsing

You are welcome.

690 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:28:20pm

re: #682 avanti

That logo is seriously creepy. It looks more like something you'd see on a militant left wing site than a tea party blog.
This does not bode well for the shindig, IMO.

691 midwestgak  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:28:33pm

re: #679 tradewind

Being Labor Day, I believe it's a rerun. I vaguely remember this one. Also, the screen doesn't say "Live."

692 Joshua Cohen  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:28:42pm

Someone plz wake me up if something interesting happens!

Obama here...Obama there...Truthers...Nirthers...left and right wing Nuts...crazy conspiracy theories...finger eaters...tea baggers...

I am a so feed up with this stuff!

693 alegrias  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:29:02pm

Clenched fist (holding a red red rose!)--how romantic-- was the symbol of Socialist Workers' Party in which ruled 14 years under Pres. Felipe Gonzalez of Spain. Its acronym was PSOE for Partido Socialista Obrero Espanyol. 1982-1996.

694 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:29:06pm

re: #684 Salamantis

You've already shown you ARE willing to shun political speakers because of their overall reputation, so why the double standard? Why are the Pensecola Tea Party people shun worthy, but others with odious political position are not?

695 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:29:13pm

re: #684 Salamantis

You're much worse; you'd be willing to shitcan an already proffered great idea on health care that might help millions of Americans solely because you despise the politics of its source. Even if the idea had nothing whatsoever to do with those loathsome politics.

I don't think you can dance with fascists without getting brownshirt on you.

696 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:29:35pm

re: #651 Salamantis

Einstein was wrong about quantum mechanics; why should I give him the time of day on relativity?

What is tragic is that our PTA member thinks this was a bright statement.

I think you were being sarcastic.

You believe Einstein on SR because of the endless verification for it. IN fact, every time you turn on your lights or any electrical thing in your home, you verify it.

SR explains why an electric field transforms into a magnetic field and hence Faraday's law. All of our electrical power comes from generators that use that depend on this.

Why people don't get that looking at all of that evidence is key to science is beyond me. And our science is so messed up in this nation because people think that science is a juke box that they can pick and choose from.

697 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:29:44pm

re: #664 sattv4u2

THANKS ICE

So what in #643 was unreaonable or objectionable or false?

Everything, dude, and LVQ beat me to it with his 665. I downdinged you less for you getting things wrong and more for your egregious nastiness, btw. This post of yours saying "THANKS ICE" because you're butthurt about a karma point is the perfect illustration of the kind of pettiness and nastiness you've been displaying with LVQ, and his perfectly reasonable impatience.

You're welcome.

698 alegrias  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:29:44pm

re: #674 yochanan

amen

* * *
Hang in there Yochanan, I admire you.

699 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:29:45pm

re: #676 Salamantis

Precisely why I didn't attend the Pensacola tea party, when I found out who was behind it. I was familiar with some of those characters from local politics; they were seamy.

But if someone with political opinions that I find loathsome were speaking at an event honoring an Iraqi war hero, I would quite possibly show up hoping they didn't try to sneak crapola like that into their encomium. If they did, they'd be seeing my ass headed out the door.

Sal, the Paulians are building an organization by holding events that get a lot of publicity, and by gathering donations and email addresses on their websites. If you attend such an event, you help them get publicity. You are helping them build thier organization. At this point, they don't say any more than they have to about what they want to do in the future, because each specificity they give will peel off support.

I'm gonna hafta start my own Don't Go Movement...

Please don't lend your support by excusing attendees for their self-maintained ignorance.

700 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:30:03pm

re: #650 Killgore Trout

I'm not sure. The MSM isn't very bright especially when it comes to internet stuff, googling, etc. If it's not spelled out for them on a Wiki page they can't piece things together on their own.

I tend to think there is a wait until a serious Republican leader emerges; with a bit of luck that person may be nailed for attendance at one of these nutty fiestas. The headlines don't go bold and large until there are bigger fish to fry than Pawlenty, Paul, et all?

701 Randall Gross  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:30:28pm

re: #686 mich-again

In the R primary races in 2012, the Birchers will be pushing hard for Ron Paul and latching up to his campaign and it will be telling to see if RP makes any attempt at all to distance himself from them or their nutty conspiracies. I say he won't.

But I notice the JBS website has been sanitized heavily in the last year or so. I wonder if there are screen captures from a couple years back. They used to have a page at their site that debunked the Reptillian conspiracy theory and claimed it as False. Most rational political organizations wouldn't see the need to clarify that for their members.

There's definitely a putsch push on to re-mainstream the JBS now that Buckley's dead. Woe unto the pol that chooses their side, they might be loud but they aren't someone who you can remain attached to and hit national stage.

702 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:30:37pm

re: #681 Sharmuta

But they might have some good ideas that now you're not listening to.

It's precisely because I had substantial prior knowledge of those people that I knew that they would not have any ideas that I would consider to be good; they were nothing more than cynical political self-promotion whores. And closet racists to boot.

703 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:30:45pm

re: #699 wrenchwench

Sal, the Paulians are building an organization by holding events that get a lot of publicity, and by gathering donations and email addresses on their websites. If you attend such an event, you help them get publicity. You are helping them build thier organization. At this point, they don't say any more than they have to about what they want to do in the future, because each specificity they give will peel off support.

I'm gonna hafta start my own Don't Go Movement...

Please don't lend your support by excusing attendees for their self-maintained ignorance.

Well said, and I will totally support your movement.

704 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:31:01pm

re: #691 midwestgak

Thanks. I was thinking wow, he really sounds pretty sensible in this show.
Not thrilled enough to stick around, though, if it's not live. I just wanted to see what kind of reaction there would be to the resignation.
You just know he's jonesing for a big ' nyah nyah'.

705 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:33:50pm

re: #671 Reginald Perrin

As whacked as Rick Martinez (Rodan) is, he's almost sane next to "song_and_dance_man."

Get a load of this comment he posted at LGF before he was kicked out:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

706 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:33:53pm

re: #686 mich-again

In the R primary races in 2012, the Birchers will be pushing hard for Ron Paul and latching up to his campaign and it will be telling to see if RP makes any attempt at all to distance himself from them or their nutty conspiracies. I say he won't.

blockquote> I agree with you on that but 2012 is a long way off. In September 2005, who did we think would be the 2008 nominees?
The only polls Luap Nor will win are on the Innernut. Wait and watch the 2009 and 2010 elections, if some reasonable Republicans do well the GOP has a chance.

707 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:34:47pm

re: #695 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think you can dance with fascists without getting brownshirt on you.

It's the ideas that are pivotal here, not the people. If an idea isn't fascist, I'm not getting my shirt stained brown by seeing existent good in it, even if its source is soiled. Because ideas, like I said before, stand or fall on their own merits, and a bad source cannot logically taint a good idea.

Since when did the objective merits of ideas begin mattering less than the pedigrees of the people they come from here?

708 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:35:31pm

re: #686 mich-again

In the R primary races in 2012, the Birchers will be pushing hard for Ron Paul and latching up to his campaign and it will be telling to see if RP makes any attempt at all to distance himself from them or their nutty conspiracies. I say he won't.

But I notice the JBS website has been sanitized heavily in the last year or so. I wonder if there are screen captures from a couple years back. They used to have a page at their site that debunked the Reptillian conspiracy theory and claimed it as False. Most rational political organizations wouldn't see the need to clarify that for their members.

Ron Paul regularly gives speeches to the John Birch Society. He hangs out with them all the time. It would be a little late at this point for him to try to distance himself from them.

709 Digital Display  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:35:54pm

re: #696 LudwigVanQuixote

Hi Ludwig! How the Hell are you? Happy Holidays my friend...
Remember when Einstein thought the universal Constant was his greatest error? Nobody knew about Dark Energy back then...

710 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:36:02pm

re: #676 Salamantis

Precisely why I didn't attend the Pensacola tea party, when I found out who was behind it. I was familiar with some of those characters from local politics; they were seamy.

But if someone with political opinions that I find loathsome were speaking at an event honoring an Iraqi war hero, I would quite possibly show up hoping they didn't try to sneak crapola like that into their encomium. If they did, they'd be seeing my ass headed out the door.

Well reasoned as ever, Sal. Upding for the smart way to handle things.

711 Pianobuff  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:36:02pm

re: #686 mich-again

In the R primary races in 2012, the Birchers will be pushing hard for Ron Paul and latching up to his campaign and it will be telling to see if RP makes any attempt at all to distance himself from them or their nutty conspiracies. I say he won't.

But I notice the JBS website has been sanitized heavily in the last year or so. I wonder if there are screen captures from a couple years back. They used to have a page at their site that debunked the Reptillian conspiracy theory and claimed it as False. Most rational political organizations wouldn't see the need to clarify that for their members.

Here's something I've been wondering (and I'm not trying to start a debate about Van Jones and is he/isn't he...). When the dust from the Van Jones stuff settles, will association with a conspiracy theory be a disqualification from seeking office? Think nirther and truther. For good or bad, a precedent has been established, right?

Will there be sauce for the gander and might we be able to look back on this event and find that in the end it will have had a cleansing effect on politicians pandering to the extreme right and the nutty wrap-arounds?

712 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:36:13pm

re: #675 LudwigVanQuixote

While we are at it, what are you doing on those PTA's? Do you think it is ok to make children learn to a test?

You obviously have no idea as to the roll of a PTA. However, when I was a school board member back in MAssachusetts, our towns graduation rate and test scores (high school as wellas elementary) improved each year (5 years running), but that was prior to NCLB and prior to the extra infusion(s) of Fed Cash

Do you think it is ok that they can't, at 18, do math that other nation's children master at 12?

Yeah ,, I think it's peachy. Thats why my wife, 15 year old son and I ALL volunteer tutor in our public system, even though my child no longer attends a public school

Do you think it is OK that there are not enough teachers or books?

I think it's a crime that so much money is wasted at the administrative level in the public sector, robbing resources from the classroom

Do you like the way that the cannon gets dumbed down each passing several years?

That (imho) is due to the liberal Doctor Spock-ish changes in the schools. Don't give the kid an "F", he'll feel bad. Don't hold a child back a grade, they'll have self esteem issues! Don't dicipline one if they act out, you'll get sued. How do we combat that? Make the year EASIER so more children will get HIGHER scores (law of unintended consequences)

If you have all of that experience, then why are you arguing with me?
A) it's fun,, B) it torques you off,, C) I'm stuck at work alone for 12 hours and it's quiet right now

You are there on the front lines seeing the mess I have to try to clean up.

glass house much?

713 doubter4444  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:36:43pm

re: #170 rightymouse

Why? Because the teachers are doing such a crappy job on their own?

Fuck off, you think your better because you send your kids to private school?

Elitist MFer

714 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:36:43pm

re: #705 Charles

As whacked as Rick Martinez (Rodan) is, he's almost sane next to "song_and_dance_man."

Get a load of this comment he posted at LGF before he was kicked out:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Completely crackers.

715 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:36:47pm

Some of you will remember this image from Zombietime. I see the tea parties the same way. The organizers are the woman at the right, the demonstrators are the children at the left. Only they are adults at the tea parties, and therefore I hold them responsible.

716 Randall Gross  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:37:42pm

re: #702 Salamantis

It's precisely because I had substantial prior knowledge of those people that I knew that they would not have any ideas that I would consider to be good; they were nothing more than cynical political self-promotion whores. And closet racists to boot.

You wonder where the ground support and shock troops for the nativist anti-immigrant groundswell came from? You want to know where the intra-party angst originated that really sunk the possibility of a McCain win? It was JBS, and their angle was the NAU...

717 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:37:46pm

re: #710 Dark_Falcon
So what's the matter with Crunchy Frog?

718 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:37:50pm

re: #707 Salamantis

You are conflating two things here, imo. This is about granting an audience to the odious. To hell with their ideas, good or bad. You give the odious an audience, you give them legitimacy.

719 mich-again  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:38:14pm

re: #684 Salamantis

"to shitcan an..idea..because you despise the..source.

American politics defined.

720 doubter4444  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:39:01pm

re: #168 NukeAtomrod

It was in the lesson plan sent out by the White House to accompany the speech. We never saw the original draft of the speech before it was changes, but it is reasonable to believe that the speech would mirror the lesson plan.

When the lesson plan sparked the controversy, because it was assumed that it revealed the content of the upcoming speech, the White House acknowledged the problem and changed it.

This should have ended the controversy... but, much of the ensuing reporting made the insinuation that "Those crazy Republicans think the President is pushing a socialist agenda on our children by telling them to work hard and stay in school."

Again, it's the MEDIAS fault!!!
Is none of this shit EVER the responsibility of the people who make it up?
Will you and you ilk always carry water for them?
It's crazy.

721 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:39:32pm

re: #705 Charles

Charles, is it my browser, or WTF is that black diamond with a question mark that appears every so now and then in the fruitcake's post?

722 NukeAtomrod  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:39:38pm

re: #713 doubter4444

Fuck off, you think your better because you send your kids to private school?

Elitist MFer

Why does Obama send his kids to a private school?

723 Digital Display  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:39:59pm

re: #714 The Shadow Do

Completely crackers.

I tried to read it and got lost..There isn't enough Bud light in all of Indiana to understand that crap...

724 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:41:22pm

re: #699 wrenchwench

Sal, the Paulians are building an organization by holding events that get a lot of publicity, and by gathering donations and email addresses on their websites. If you attend such an event, you help them get publicity. You are helping them build thier organization. At this point, they don't say any more than they have to about what they want to do in the future, because each specificity they give will peel off support.

I'm gonna hafta start my own Don't Go Movement...

Please don't lend your support by excusing attendees for their self-maintained ignorance.

Actually, if I were to attend a tea party event where I had not found particularly odious connections to its organizers, I would also be informing those next to me that if such-and-such Paulian, Bircher, Nirther or Truther crapola came up, I'd be outta there, because it stank on dry ice. Thus, if it did come up, not only would I be leaving, but maybe I'd be taking some other folks with me.

725 Shug  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:41:38pm

re: #695 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think you can dance with fascists without getting brownshirt on you.


Just wear a condom

726 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:41:49pm

re: #715 wrenchwench

Some of you will remember this image from Zombietime. I see the tea parties the same way. The organizers are the woman at the right, the demonstrators are the children at the left. Only they are adults at the tea parties, and therefore I hold them responsible.

I think that's a very good analogy.

727 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:42:02pm

re: #707 Salamantis

It's the ideas that are pivotal here, not the people. If an idea isn't fascist, I'm not getting my shirt stained brown by seeing existent good in it, even if its source is soiled. Because ideas, like I said before, stand or fall on their own merits, and a bad source cannot logically taint a good idea.

Since when did the objective merits of ideas begin mattering less than the pedigrees of the people they come from here?

I'm not concerned about ideas, I'm concerned about giving legitimacy to illegitimate people and their organizations.

728 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:42:34pm

re: #697 iceweasel

Everything, dude, and LVQ beat me to it with his 665. I downdinged you less for you getting things wrong and more for your egregious nastiness, btw. This post of yours saying "THANKS ICE" because you're butthurt about a karma point is the perfect illustration of the kind of pettiness and nastiness you've been displaying with LVQ, and his perfectly reasonable impatience.

You're welcome.

I see ,, MY egregious nastiness!

you are being an ass

I was told OK, so don't even dream of telling me about education in this nation.

Shut up and learn.


Please show me where II exhibited egregious nastiness?

Thanks again

729 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:42:45pm

re: #723 HoosierHoops

I tried to read it and got lost..There isn't enough Bud light in all of Indiana to understand that crap...

Blogmocracy "interlectuals" -- starring Joe Dirt.

730 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:43:08pm

re: #709 HoosierHoops

Hi Ludwig! How the Hell are you? Happy Holidays my friend...
Remember when Einstein thought the universal Constant was his greatest error? Nobody knew about Dark Energy back then...

Hey buddy... Always glad to see you!

I actually wasn't around to hear Einstein lament the CC. I'm not that old :)

It's curious in that he rejected it for the same reasons that he rejected QM. I.e. it didn't fit with his overall idea of how the universe should be.

In this sense, Einstein, because of his greatness is one of the primary object lessons in not letting your sense of should color your science. Paradoxically, his sense of elegance, gave us GR - and he came upon perhaps the most beautiful (in the way that mathematics can be beautiful) theories of all time, and certainly one of the greatest intellectual achievements in the entire history of the species.

BTW, the reason he added the CC was because it was possible to add - as in mathematically permissible to add without changing the structure of the overall theory. It is exactly like adding a constant to a function you are going to differentiate.

His original mathematical instinct was correct. However, the idea of a non-static universe, a consequence of the CC, greatly upset him.

731 Pianobuff  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:43:34pm

re: #707 Salamantis

It's the ideas that are pivotal here, not the people. If an idea isn't fascist, I'm not getting my shirt stained brown by seeing existent good in it, even if its source is soiled. Because ideas, like I said before, stand or fall on their own merits, and a bad source cannot logically taint a good idea.

Since when did the objective merits of ideas begin mattering less than the pedigrees of the people they come from here?

Would you pay to see a Wagner opera?

732 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:43:46pm

re: #723 HoosierHoops

I tried to read it and got lost..There isn't enough Bud light in all of Indiana to understand that crap...

"song_and_dance_man" is talking about HIMSELF as "the child." He believes he's literally a prophet who knows how the world is going to end, because God spoke directly to him. Not kidding.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Notice that he predicted some kind of disaster was going to hit LA in 2006. He actually emailed me several times with creepy, insane warnings that I needed to get out of town before the END.

After he was banned he started emailing me creepy threats that I was being "watched."

This is who the stalkers are hanging out with. The guy should be in a mental institution.

733 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:44:20pm

re: #723 HoosierHoops

I tried to read it and got lost..There isn't enough Bud light in all of Indiana to understand that crap...

Stream of consciousness unconsciousness.
Cat's on some heavy shit for sure.

734 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:44:25pm

re: #718 Sharmuta

You are conflating two things here, imo. This is about granting an audience to the odious. To hell with their ideas, good or bad. You give the odious an audience, you give them legitimacy.

Baby/bathwater.

Keep any good ideas, shitcan any tainted authors.

Best of both worlds.

735 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:44:46pm

re: #731 Pianobuff

Would you pay to see a Wagner opera?

I wouldn't.

But I don't LIKE Wagner.

I love Chanel perfume, ansd I do wrestle a bit with that.

736 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:44:56pm

re: #682 avanti

Good grief. Tammy Bruce is probably trying to contain her excitement.

737 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:45:04pm

re: #719 mich-again

Maybe not quite that cut and dried, but personality often decides whether or not something gets done or not. Think of Reagan, how he could handle the Democrat congress he was stuck with. They liked him.
Obama is squandering, IMO, one of his best assets, which is his likeability factor, by trivializing it. He needs to be schmoozing the Congress and the leaders of the world, not the union leaders and the kiddies. It's not that there's anything wrong with his talking to them... it's that he is getting badly overexposed, and for nothin'.
Just me.

738 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:45:48pm

re: #712 sattv4u2


If you have all of that experience, then why are you arguing with me?

A) it's fun,, B) it torques you off,, C) I'm stuck at work alone for 12 hours and it's quiet right now

Everything you said before that only verifies my main points on an important issue - from your own experience.

Then you tell us why you are arguing with me above.

And you wonder why I called you an ass.

Get used to it some more asshole.

739 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:46:45pm

re: #724 Salamantis

Actually, if I were to attend a tea party event where I had not found particularly odious connections to its organizers, I would also be informing those next to me that if such-and-such Paulian, Bircher, Nirther or Truther crapola came up, I'd be outta there, because it stank on dry ice. Thus, if it did come up, not only would I be leaving, but maybe I'd be taking some other folks with me.

That's good, and I didn't expect any different from you.

In my opinion, even though there are myriad organizers of Tea Parties, the upper hand is held by the Paulbots. Attendance at any tea party aids them. It is no longer about ideas. It is about organization-building. At this point, the connections of any one organizer are irrelevant, they are all connected.

re: #734 Salamantis

Baby/bathwater.

Keep any good ideas, shitcan any tainted authors.

Best of both worlds.

The baby has dissolved in the bathwater.

740 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:46:56pm

re: #734 Salamantis

Baby/bathwater.

Keep any good ideas, shitcan any tainted authors.

Best of both worlds.

I think you're way off on this. It is not tossing the baby out with the bat water to shun the politically odious. It's actually imperative that American's shun people like that and not grant them legitimacy. This is what keeps extremists from reaching the heights of elected power in this country.

741 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:47:07pm

re: #732 Charles

That's the kind of person who just snaps and goes postal one day... be careful.

742 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:47:44pm

re: #728 sattv4u2

I see ,, MY egregious nastiness!

you are being an ass

I was told OK, so don't even dream of telling me about education in this nation.

Shut up and learn.

Please show me where II exhibited egregious nastiness?

Thanks again

Call the wahhhmbulance already.

743 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:47:56pm

re: #727 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not concerned about ideas, I'm concerned about giving legitimacy to illegitimate people and their organizations.

But they're illegitimate precisely because they embrace noxious ideas. Continue to politically shun them, but also steal any non-noxious ideas away from them, so they can't use their sole possession and advocacy of those ideas to rally support for the more vomitous elements of their agenda.

744 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:48:00pm

re: #717 Jim in Virginia

So what's the matter with Crunchy Frog?

It was a weird topping. I had to smack you for it.

745 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:48:45pm

re: #740 Sharmuta

It is not tossing the baby out with the bat water to shun the politically odious.

I think you just coined a good one.

746 Pianobuff  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:48:56pm

re: #735 SanFranciscoZionist

I wouldn't.

But I don't LIKE Wagner.

I love Chanel perfume, ansd I do wrestle a bit with that.

I guess I could even turn the mirror on myself. I was raised Lutheran. Does that make me an anti-semite? I don't believe I am but others might, right?

747 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:49:08pm

re: #743 Salamantis

But they're illegitimate precisely because they embrace noxious ideas. Continue to politically shun them, but also steal any non-noxious ideas away from them, so they can't use their sole possession and advocacy of those ideas to rally support for the more vomitous elements of their agenda.

Why are you assuming these people have any good ideas worth stealing. If it's that good of an idea- someone else will think of it.

748 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:49:08pm

re: #736 theheat

Good grief. Tammy Bruce is probably trying to contain her excitement.

Taking a swipe at homosexuality, very classsy. Har de har har har...

749 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:49:27pm

re: #745 wrenchwench

I was too worked up to proof read. :p

750 midwestgak  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:49:29pm

re: #745 wrenchwench

I think you just coined a good one.

hahahahahahahaha. Good catch!

751 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:49:40pm

re: #741 tradewind

That's the kind of person who just snaps and goes postal one day... be careful.

Agreed. People like that are dangerous.

752 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:49:41pm

re: #738 LudwigVanQuixote

Everything you said before that only verifies my main points on an important issue - from your own experience.

Then you tell us why you are arguing with me above.

And you wonder why I called you an ass.

Get used to it some more asshole.

hehehe ,, again ,, glass house. I disagreed with you without being disagreeable. I answered each and every one of your questions to the point.

After numerous name calling and put downs by you towards me, I "fire back" with one! OH THE HORROR

753 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:50:20pm

re: #732 Charles

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]


holy shit.

754 doubter4444  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:50:39pm

re: #225 Banner

Let me guess, you're under 30 right?

Back during the height of the 'war on drugs' some schools started programs for students to out their parents or any family members, friends, etc, who were doing drugs. Some kids did it. There was a rather large outcry.

History has a tendency to repeat.

I'm not under thirty.
And i remember the DARE programs and all that.
I don't really remember kids turning in their parents, but I'm sure it happened once or twice, and I'll give you odds that the hue and cry came from the "leftists", while the Conservatives were cheering the kids on. Now what, on something this simple you pull the equivalency card?
Equating the two is absurd, and reinforces your toolness.

755 MacDuff  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:50:59pm

Oh boy, late in the thread... pissing matches, babies and bathwater, quantum physics and psychotic former posters.

Later, Lizards!

756 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:51:17pm

re: #740 Sharmuta

I think you're way off on this. It is not tossing the baby out with the bat water to shun the politically odious. It's actually imperative that American's shun people like that and not grant them legitimacy. This is what keeps extremists from reaching the heights of elected power in this country.

See my # 743.

Leave them in sole possession of nothing but the noxious; that's how best to beat them.

757 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:51:48pm

re: #740 Sharmuta

It's actually imperative that American's shun people like that and not grant them legitimacy


I tend to agree, but shouldn't this apply to the President as well? Thinking of some of his associations, his appointees, and even a few of his cabinet picks...
Maybe he needs some shunning lessons.

758 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:51:52pm

re: #747 Sharmuta

Why are you assuming these people have any good ideas worth stealing. If it's that good of an idea- someone else will think of it.

Not only that, they think it's the height of creativity to "steal" Alinskyite tactics. How many times can that tire be retreaded?

759 Gus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:51:56pm

re: #740 Sharmuta

I think you're way off on this. It is not tossing the baby out with the bat water to shun the politically odious. It's actually imperative that American's shun people like that and not grant them legitimacy. This is what keeps extremists from reaching the heights of elected power in this country.

Whatever you do, don't through the wingnut out with the bat water.

//

760 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:52:00pm

re: #705 Charles

As whacked as Rick Martinez (Rodan) is, he's almost sane next to "song_and_dance_man."

I'm not going to argue with you there, song_and _dance_man has a craziness that's in it's own league.

What I find Interesting about Martinez is that he combines crazy and stupidity, he is the most inept blogger in this and probably every other galaxy in the universe.

761 rightymouse  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:52:01pm

re: #713 doubter4444

Fuck off, you think your better because you send your kids to private school?

Elitist MFer


At least my autistic son can spell. Unlike you.

762 Bubbaman  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:52:03pm

My kids' school gave us the option of opting out. That's precisely what we intend to do. I think that the "I told you so" mentality is disingenuous as we have no idea what the original intent was. Clearly, the revised version is rather innocuous.

763 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:52:38pm

re: #743 Salamantis

But they're illegitimate precisely because they embrace noxious ideas. Continue to politically shun them, but also steal any non-noxious ideas away from them, so they can't use their sole possession and advocacy of those ideas to rally support for the more vomitous elements of their agenda.

Well, steal, sure! Just so they don't gain entree with their ideas.

764 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:52:47pm

re: #753 spacejesus

holy shit.

And you would know.

765 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:52:50pm

re: #756 Salamantis

See my # 743.

Leave them in sole possession of nothing but the noxious; that's how best to beat them.

Notice they're working the exact opposite strategy? They're promoting their "good" ideas and minimizing their bad. At some point- this is going to catch up to the movement. The msm only has to decide to expose it, and it's over.

766 Digital Display  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:52:52pm

re: #753 spacejesus

holy shit.

That's what I was going to say! Unbelievable

767 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:52:52pm

re: #748 The Shadow Do

No, not exactly. I was just somewhat amused to see Tammy Bruce had glommed on to Palin with such enthusiasm, and has put up Palin pics as eye candy. IMO, Tammy's going teaparty and death panels, herself.

I used to really like Tammy Bruce.

768 Wendya  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:52:55pm

re: #657 Ojoe

Towercam! Big smoke plume, it looks like a volcano.

It's not a volcano, but that would be interesting.

There is a dormant volcano on the east side of the Sierra though; some day it will erupt.


I have 100 acres that sit at the base of a dormant volcano. Not too particularly concerned about it in my lifetime...

769 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:53:59pm

re: #747 Sharmuta

Now there, not so sure. Frank Lloyd Wright was a nasty, bigoted sonofabitch, but no one so far has managed his architectural vision. Benjamin Franklin had some personal habits that make you squirm, but still... brilliant. Werner Von Braun...yuck, but he had the ideas that no one else did.

770 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:54:06pm

re: #747 Sharmuta

Why are you assuming these people have any good ideas worth stealing. If it's that good of an idea- someone else will think of it.

But you're saying that even if you found that one of their ideas WAS a gem, you would toss it in the shitpile because it came from a horse's ass. Even if the horse accidentally ingested it while grazing.

771 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:54:08pm

re: #746 Pianobuff

I guess I could even turn the mirror on myself. I was raised Lutheran. Does that make me an anti-semite? I don't believe I am but others might, right?


I think you probably know. But if you show any latent signs, well clue you in around here. ;)

772 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:54:19pm

By the way, the real name of "song_and_dance_man" is Jaime Gallegos.

773 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:54:32pm

re: #764 wrenchwench

And you would know.

i wonder if he predicted his own banning?

774 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:54:39pm

re: #728 sattv4u2

why do you think i stopped responding to those two. it is like hitting your head on a brick wall well it does feel good when you stop.

775 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:54:46pm

re: #762 Bubbaman

[eyeroll]

776 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:55:11pm

re: #773 SpaceJesus

They never predict the lotto numbers, is all I know.

777 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:55:29pm

re: #732 Charles

This is why it's shocking when certain people who seem reasonable and don't get banned from here just show up over there after awhile because "it's more in line with their world view" or some such nonsense. (As if there aren't plenty of far less crazy conservative or Christian places to go on the web.)

Do they not know the founders and a big chunk of the membership are batshit crazy psychos? How many times does Charles have to post these little snippets on unbridled no-holds-barred crazy before someone gets it?

778 doubter4444  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:55:30pm

re: #276 Charles

Good grief. That's so insane I almost can't believe it.

i'll ask again, what happen to Capt. Ed?
Once he when over to HotAir, it's like he went to the darkside

779 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:55:33pm

re: #770 Salamantis

But you're saying that even if you found that one of their ideas WAS a gem, you would toss it in the shitpile because it came from a horse's ass. Even if the horse accidentally ingested it while grazing.

No- I'm saying I wouldn't know if they had a good idea because I'm not listening to them. Thy are shun worthy.

780 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:55:34pm

re: #772 Charles

Mr and Mrs Gallegos must be so proud.
///

781 Randall Gross  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:55:54pm

re: #756 Salamantis

You are missing the point here Sal. They don't have any new or good ideas worth speaking of, they merely package their vile noxiousness in other people's causes that already exist to mainstream themselves. It's their bandwagon of the moment, and they could care less about it because it's not their prime purpose. If you want to hear ideas from people go to their originators, not to the thieves.

782 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:56:17pm

re: #773 SpaceJesus

i wonder if he predicted his own banning?

What a strange thread this is. We've had many negative karma comments and none of them are by SpaceJesus, even though he's posted several comments. We're through the looking glass here.

783 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:56:18pm

re: #754 doubter4444

I'm not under thirty.
And i remember the DARE programs and all that.
I don't really remember kids turning in their parents, but I'm sure it happened once or twice, and I'll give you odds that the hue and cry came from the "leftists", while the Conservatives were cheering the kids on. Now what, on something this simple you pull the equivalency card?
Equating the two is absurd, and reinforces your toolness.

I recall exactly one case of something like that happening. It was boosted to us by some godforsaken 'anti-drug educator' in eighth grade. None of us signed up to turn out parents in.

784 mich-again  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:56:54pm

re: #708 Charles

Ron Paul regularly gives speeches to the John Birch Society. He hangs out with them all the time. It would be a little late at this point for him to try to distance himself from them.

Maybe he can't distance himself from them but I do notice they are attempting (superficially) to distance themselves from some of the nuttier conspiracy theories and anti-Semitic propaganda by scrubbing their website. Why else would they do that I wonder. Its not like aren't inextricably tied to their past. Why deny it now?

785 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:57:18pm

re: #728 sattv4u2

I see ,, MY egregious nastiness!

you are being an ass

I was told OK, so don't even dream of telling me about education in this nation.

Shut up and learn.

Please show me where II exhibited egregious nastiness?

Thanks again

It's literally everywhere, and you've even more or less admitted that you're posting the way you are just to be an ass. Why should I assist you in turning the thread into a flamewar? You're doing a fine enough job on your own of demonstrating that LVQ-- and I -- are right in our assessment of you.
I don't have to prove to you that you're exhibiting gratuitous nastiness. People who read you can make up their own minds about it, and will. And it will be on the basis of your own posts, not mine about you. As I said, I won't assist you in your desire to derail the thread and make everything all about you.

LVQ has been handing you your ass repeatedly in this thread, and in response you just doubledown on the nasty and try to pick fights. I won't be playing.

786 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:57:36pm

re: #753 spacejesus

holy shit.

Couldn't have said it better myself in this case.

787 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:57:44pm

re: #782 Dark_Falcon

What a strange thread this is. We've had many negative karma comments and none of them are by SpaceJesus, even though he's posted several comments. We're through the looking glass here.

SpaceJesus sticks up for LGF. That's more than we can say for some folks.

788 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:57:59pm

re: #738 LudwigVanQuixote

Everything you said before that only verifies my main points on an important issue - from your own experience.

Then you tell us why you are arguing with me above.

And you wonder why I called you an ass.

Get used to it some more asshole.

Heh. Rock on Ludwig!

789 Bubbaman  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:58:19pm

If people don't believe that almost everything involved in public education is loaded with a political agenda, then they haven't picked up a textbook lately. My kids' chemistry book is less a study of chemistry and more a political diatribe on polution and global warming. No wonder American kids are dumba$$es! To boot the text is laden with kumbaya graphics and photos of minorities on every other page. The only photo of an 80% majority person was that of some punk kid on a skateboard.

790 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:59:05pm

re: #788 iceweasel

Heh. Rock on Ludwig!

Oh, come now, you rock pretty hard now too.

791 mich-again  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:59:05pm

re: #785 iceweasel

I won't be playing.

You just did.

792 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:59:10pm

re: #784 mich-again

Maybe he can't distance himself from them but I do notice they are attempting (superficially) to distance themselves from some of the nuttier conspiracy theories and anti-Semitic propaganda by scrubbing their website. Why else would they do that I wonder. Its not like aren't inextricably tied to their past. Why deny it now?

They may be watching how popular Glenn Beck's act is, and figuring people aren't smart enough to notice or care.

793 Wendya  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:59:11pm

re: #743 Salamantis

But they're illegitimate precisely because they embrace noxious ideas. Continue to politically shun them, but also steal any non-noxious ideas away from them, so they can't use their sole possession and advocacy of those ideas to rally support for the more vomitous elements of their agenda.

You can't discard a good position just because flakes embrace it. That's an asinine standard to expect any party to take and it seems a position many demand of the right. Should we discard the idea of limited government because Ron Paul has uttered those words?

794 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:59:17pm

re: #789 Bubbaman

WTH?

795 Shug  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:59:30pm

Something bad did happen in LA in 2006re: #772 Charles

By the way, the real name of "song_and_dance_man" is Jaime Gallegos.


ruh roh. heads are exploding over there I'll bet

796 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:00:01pm

re: #778 doubter4444

i'll ask again, what happen to Capt. Ed?
Once he when over to HotAir, it's like he went to the darkside

Money. He has to play to the HotAir crowd. He's feeding them what they want.
The sad thing is that Ed is smart enough to know what he's doing, IMO, and he was a good writer.

Ah well. Another voice of reason on the right bites the dust.

797 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:00:07pm

re: #765 Sharmuta

Notice they're working the exact opposite strategy? They're promoting their "good" ideas and minimizing their bad. At some point- this is going to catch up to the movement. The msm only has to decide to expose it, and it's over.

Mainstreaming and piggybacking are clear and present dangers here, as the antijihadist movement full well knows. Which is why we should deny heinous politicasl operators sole possession of any good ideas to use as weapons of public persuasion with which to pursue such strategies, no matter where they originated.

798 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:00:19pm

re: #785 iceweasel

It's literally everywhere, and you've even more or less admitted that you're posting the way you are just to be an ass. Why should I assist you in turning the thread into a flamewar? You're doing a fine enough job on your own of demonstrating that LVQ-- and I -- are right in our assessment of you.
I don't have to prove to you that you're exhibiting gratuitous nastiness. People who read you can make up their own minds about it, and will. And it will be on the basis of your own posts, not mine about you. As I said, I won't assist you in your desire to derail the thread and make everything all about you.


In other worsds

No, I can't show you where you were nasty after being called an ass, told to shut up and learn, and told

LVQ has been handing you your ass repeatedly in this thread, and in response you just doubledown on the nasty and try to pick fights. I won't be playing.

799 Bloodnok  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:00:27pm

re: #789 Bubbaman

80% majority? Get that crap out of here.

800 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:00:30pm
801 Rent a Chicken  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:00:38pm

All this static over Obama's speech. I wish people would have kept their mouths shut. Obama's speech writers probably went through a dozen sanitized revisions in response to the criticisms.
I want to hear his ORIGINAL talk. THEN, we can heap the praise or blast the message, whatever is appropriate.
Will he use a teleprompter? Will he read from a letter? Either will turn kids off.

802 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:00:44pm

re: #781 Thanos

Thanks for the element I missed.

803 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:00:58pm

re: #767 theheat

No, not exactly. I was just somewhat amused to see Tammy Bruce had glommed on to Palin with such enthusiasm, and has put up Palin pics as eye candy. IMO, Tammy's going teaparty and death panels, herself.

I used to really like Tammy Bruce.

Guess what asshole, my daughter, who is physically beautiful by the way, is gay. She is also the best friend anyone could ever have. she is also the nicest person you have never met. Disappointed in Tammy Bruce? Because Sarah Palin is attractive and therefore Tammy is disoriented somehow? Grow up Beavis. "Eye candy", very astute.

804 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:01:13pm

re: #799 Bloodnok

80% majority? Get that crap out of here.

this. this a thousand times.

805 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:01:23pm

re: #753 spacejesus

holy shit.

Dude who was that guy? What was that guy? Maybe I don't want to know...

806 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:01:35pm

re: #747 Sharmuta

Why are you assuming these people have any good ideas worth stealing. If it's that good of an idea- someone else will think of it.

And even if they do, there's no need to associate with them. Good ideas will find a good home all by themselves; there's no need to hear them from Troofers. Find some other, reputable group to promote them.

If you can't, there's a strong chance it wasn't a good idea in the first place.

807 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:01:41pm

re: #800 SpaceJesus

god dern darkies and skateboarders ruinin' 'merican edumacation

Sometimes I just want to give SpaceJesus a Scooby Snack.

808 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:01:52pm
809 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:02:07pm

re: #789 Bubbaman

That comment comes far too close to White Nationalism for comfort. When someone starts talking about minorities like that, I start to worry.

Cool it, Bubba.

810 opnion  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:02:19pm

re: #752 sattv4u2

hehehe ,, again ,, glass house. I disagreed with you without being disagreeable. I answered each and every one of your questions to the point.

After numerous name calling and put downs by you towards me, I "fire back" with one! OH THE HORROR


Havin fun? This is getting common, as I see it you only responded, but none of my business.

811 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:02:32pm

re: #757 tradewind

I tend to agree, but shouldn't this apply to the President as well? Thinking of some of his associations, his appointees, and even a few of his cabinet picks...
Maybe he needs some shunning lessons.

I think he's pretty well already shunned by the Right.

812 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:02:43pm

re: #801 Rent a Chicken Sock

813 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:02:53pm
814 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:02:55pm

Random Labor Day musing: I look at Bush Derangement Syndrome and Obama Derangement Syndrome as similar if not identical. The Left was enraged when Bush became President, but what made it worse was that after 9-11 most people rallied behind him; and in 2004 he won again. He wasn't just wrong, he was evil; or he was really stupid and controlled by even more evil actors. But as evil, or stupid, as he was, he kept winning on issues. Tax cuts; John Roberts; the Congressional resolution on Iraq. Rage gave way to irrationality: the truthers, the Afghan war for pipelines theory, the Iraq war for oil theory, the Bush blew up the New Orleans levees and killed thousands of black prison inmates and left them in the swamp theory. BDS led to a mindset of "Don't confuse me with facts. It's true. And if it's not, but I can motivate you to oppose BushHitlerCheney, well, the end justifies the means."
Obama generates the same sort of animosity, hatred, and irrationality. In some ways, the economic meltdown has had the same psychological effect as 9-11. Things have come loose, and no one feels anchored yet. McCain got as many votes as he did because of a distrust for Obama- a sense of who is this guy and what is he really going to do? And nine months in, like Bush, Obama keeps winning. The bailouts, the Stimulus, cap and trade. Rage gives way to irrationality.

The bad news: it will get worse. What happens when the Left really starts to feel betrayed by Obama- either becaus he backs off, say, a public option for health care; or he loses on a critical issue and is blamed for it?

Ok, I'm off the soapbox.

815 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:03:01pm

re: #808 nuggsgalore

Clichémeister.

816 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:03:23pm

re: #808 nuggs socksgalore

817 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:03:25pm

re: #790 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh, come now, you rock pretty hard now too.

You know it, sugar! ;)

818 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:03:36pm

re: #808 nuggsgalore

And you just couldn't help making this comment so everyone can see how defiant you are speaking troof to power.

Dumbass, just go away.

819 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:04:20pm

re: #772 Charles

By the way, the real name of "song_and_dance_man" is Jaime Gallegos.

I understand that he is a corrections officer, being as bat$hit crazy as that, it is inevitable that he will eventually be living full time at his former place of employment.

820 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:04:28pm

re: #785 iceweasel

I see, so in other words,

"I can't show you where you have been nasty, even after being told you are an ass, shut up and learn, and don't tell me about ,,,

Even after I answered every question posed without being disagreeable.

What is it you kids say?

Oh yeah

mmmkkaaayy

(BTW ,, the above WAS me being an ass,,, but only a little!!)

821 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:04:38pm

re: #808 nuggsgalore

Something tells me that stopping by won't be a problem for you any more. Nice putting Obama's name in all caps. So clever.

/dripping sarc on that last line

822 Shug  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:04:44pm

re: #808 nuggsgalore


I'm taking my crack at predicting the future. I see you disappearing in a matter of minutes

823 Bobblehead  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:04:47pm

re: #789 Bubbaman

If people don't believe that almost everything involved in public education is loaded with a political agenda, then they haven't picked up a textbook lately. My kids' chemistry book is less a study of chemistry and more a political diatribe on polution and global warming. No wonder American kids are dumba$$es! To boot the text is laden with kumbaya graphics and photos of minorities on every other page. The only photo of an 80% majority person was that of some punk kid on a skateboard.

It's been that way for quite a while. You can't believe the crap I had to disabuse my son of when he was in high school and that was more than 10 years ago. I feel sorry for parents today.

824 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:04:54pm

re: #779 Sharmuta

No- I'm saying I wouldn't know if they had a good idea because I'm not listening to them. Thy are shun worthy.

I listen. If, for no other reason, because it is important for me to know exactly where I disagree with them, and why, so I can more effectively argue against them.

That's why I have read Mein Kampf, and Qutb's Milestones, and the Communist Manifesto.

Know your enemies. And precisely why they are your enemies. Because knowledge is power.

825 Wendya  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:05:04pm

re: #806 SixDegrees

And even if they do, there's no need to associate with them. Good ideas will find a good home all by themselves; there's no need to hear them from Troofers. Find some other, reputable group to promote them.

If you can't, there's a strong chance it wasn't a good idea in the first place.

The problem I've noticed is that if a fringe group embraces a good idea, no one else is allowed to repeat it for fear of being tarred and feathered as being a member of that fringe group. That is not acceptable.

826 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:05:19pm

re: #797 Salamantis

Mainstreaming and piggybacking are clear and present dangers here, as the antijihadist movement full well knows. Which is why we should deny heinous politicasl operators sole possession of any good ideas to use as weapons of public persuasion with which to pursue such strategies, no matter where they originated.

But that's part of the problem, Sal. The operators in this case ARE the odious folks we should be shunning. It's their movement. It was made to be appealing to us on purpose- so as to better mainstream themselves. Kind of like ID.

827 Digital Display  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:05:24pm

re: #795 Shug

Something bad did happen in LA in 2006


ruh roh. heads are exploding over there I'll bet

why? They published my name..Called me a charity pimp and an embezzler...I had to shut down my web site from attacks...

828 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:06:18pm
829 NukeAtomrod  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:06:39pm

re: #720 doubter4444

Again, it's the MEDIAS fault!!!
Is none of this shit EVER the responsibility of the people who make it up?
Will you and you ilk always carry water for them?
It's crazy.

Who are the people that made it up?

The lesson plan came from the White House.

People read it and either correctly, or incorrectly, interpreted it as an attempt to get kids to help Obama get his policies passed.

The White House acknowledged there was a problem (whether or not it was intentional,) and made corrections to the lesson plan and, most likely, Obama's speech.

The almost certainly revised text of the planned speech comes out and there is nothing objectionable in it.

The bulk of the reporting implies that Republicans have objections to the President giving a speech to school students and fails to explain the objections.

Am I carrying water for someone? I don't know who. For that matter, I don't know who my ilk are. I am perpetually amazed when people get so outraged over things like this, but don't even bother to wonder why or how these seemingly insane controversies began. Especially when they're only a week old.

830 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:07:11pm

re: #806 SixDegrees

And even if they do, there's no need to associate with them. Good ideas will find a good home all by themselves; there's no need to hear them from Troofers. Find some other, reputable group to promote them.

If you can't, there's a strong chance it wasn't a good idea in the first place.

Don't use such tainted vehicles to promote otherwise good ideas; rather, steal those ideas from them, and promote them via less noxious vehicles.

831 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:07:15pm

re: #789 Bubbaman

If people don't believe that almost everything involved in public education is loaded with a political agenda, then they haven't picked up a textbook lately. My kids' chemistry book is less a study of chemistry and more a political diatribe on polution and global warming. No wonder American kids are dumba$$es! To boot the text is laden with kumbaya graphics and photos of minorities on every other page. The only photo of an 80% majority person was that of some punk kid on a skateboard.

Because y'know Chemistry totally blows because it's teaching stuff, like like global warming, which like you obviously like know so much about - like fer reals dude, I know my dad is a bigot, but he is like a professor of like physics dude when it comes to science, and he like told me man that like all this AGW is like a plot by like Aliens who made Al Gor into like a commie...

Anyway man, my dad is cool. He said I don't need to learn chemistry.

832 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:07:25pm

re: #827 HoosierHoops

why? They published my name..Called me a charity pimp and an embezzler...I had to shut down my web site from attacks...

{Hoops}

833 Shug  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:07:42pm

I think it's bad for people other than charles to "out" people. It gives the stalkers an excuse to "out" Lizards who may wish to remain anonymous

834 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:07:58pm

re: #814 Jim in Virginia

That was good, but I don't like lark's vomit either.

835 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:08:04pm

Lamar Alexander, who is no raving conservative, is questioning the number of Czars Obama has authorized, and their power without Congressional approval. Even David Gergen says there have not ever been this many with this much power.
It's not that there have not been ' Czars' in other administrations... it's just that this one has taken it way too far. Maybe since this story is being broken on CNN and pushed by moderates rather than very right wing conservatives, it will get some attention.

836 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:08:09pm

Wow.

Someone please tell me I'm not really reading LGF commenters complaining that there are too many pictures of "minorities" in their kids' textbooks.

837 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:08:12pm

re: #778 doubter4444

i'll ask again, what happen to Capt. Ed?
Once he when over to HotAir, it's like he went to the darkside

He went for the money, with the understanding that he would toe the editorial line, which involves mostly screaming and hysterics. He's a talented enough writer to be able to produce such bilge on command, but it's very sad to see him do this. I used to really enjoy his personal blog, Captain's Quarters, and his discourse there was some of the more reasoned and calm on the Internet. He was forced to abandon that, as well, when he joined HA.

Ed has financial circumstances that make it difficult to criticize any move by him to make more money, especially one that allows him to work from home. But his work at HA is worse than worthless, and I've lost a great deal of respect for him since he went over there.

838 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:08:16pm

re: #744 Dark_Falcon Thank you sir, may I have another?
///

839 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:08:26pm

re: #833 Shug

I think it's bad for people other than charles to "out" people. It gives the stalkers an excuse to "out" Lizards who may wish to remain anonymous

They started outing people here at LGF before Charles ever said their names.

840 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:08:56pm

re: #836 Charles

Wow.

Someone please tell me I'm not really reading LGF commenters complaing that there are too many pictures of "minorities" in their kids' textbooks.

I'm still blinking!

841 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:09:01pm

It's been fun, but I have to go drink my tea and put away my socks.

Hasta mañana, lizards.

842 Shug  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:09:33pm

re: #839 Sharmuta

They started outing people here at LGF before Charles ever said their names.


I don't think we should continue that however.

843 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:09:46pm

re: #836 Charles

Wow.

Someone please tell me I'm not really reading LGF commenters complaing that there are too many pictures of "minorities" in their kids' textbooks.

I regret to confirm.

844 callahan23  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:10:24pm

re: #841 wrenchwench

It's been fun, but I have to go drink my tea and put away my socks.
Hasta mañana, lizards.

Que te hagas bien. {wrenchwench}
Buenas noches.

845 Miss Trixie  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:10:51pm

re: #713 doubter4444

Fuck off, you think your better because you send your kids to private school?

Elitist MFer

Wow. That's pretty low. If you even KNEW rightymouse you'd never write an attack that nasty and ignorant.

Attack on a personal level - never, ever, EVER debate respectably. Typical Lib behaviour and I do believe you owe her an apology, if you're man enough to do so.

846 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:10:55pm

re: #826 Sharmuta

But that's part of the problem, Sal. The operators in this case ARE the odious folks we should be shunning. It's their movement. It was made to be appealing to us on purpose- so as to better mainstream themselves. Kind of like ID.

Exactly. So politically shun the operators. And don't leave them in sole possession of any good ideas.

Don't cede them sole possession of such seductive appeals.

847 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:10:57pm

re: #836 Charles

Wow.

Someone please tell me I'm not really reading LGF commenters complaing that there are too many pictures of "minorities" in their kids' textbooks.

I'm sorry to say that; Yes, Charles, that's what he said. It's a good way into objectionable, and can legitimately be described as White Nationalist.

848 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:12:03pm

re: #836 Charles

Wow.

Someone please tell me I'm not really reading LGF commenters complaining that there are too many pictures of "minorities" in their kids' textbooks.

Coupled with hating AGW and kumbya...

It's charming.

Which reminds me... Last night you mentioned posting the vid that debunks the Earth is cooling hoax...

Please with cream and sugar...

849 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:12:09pm

re: #846 Salamantis

Exactly. So politically shun the operators. And don't leave them in sole possession of any good ideas.

Don't cede them sole possession of such seductive appeals.

And that's why people shouldn't go to tea parties.

850 Digital Display  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:12:12pm

re: #845 Miss Trixie

Happy Holidays Miss Trixie!
Hope you are well

851 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:12:14pm

re: #847 Dark_Falcon


Lets hope it's just one. I haven't seen anyone else do it.

852 opnion  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:12:17pm

re: #835 tradewind

Lamar Alexander, who is no raving conservative, is questioning the number of Czars Obama has authorized, and their power without Congressional approval. Even David Gergen says there have not ever been this many with this much power.
It's not that there have not been ' Czars' in other administrations... it's just that this one has taken it way too far. Maybe since this story is being broken on CNN and pushed by moderates rather than very right wing conservatives, it will get some attention.

It will not disuade the hard core Obama people, they will just hurl insults.
The problem for Obama is that the Independents are paying attention & without them 2010 will be a disaster & 2012.

853 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:12:22pm

re: #789 Bubbaman

Whoa. As I disclosed earlier, I'm only a fine arts major, so I can't say what are in books about chemistry that shouldn't be. But I think chemistry figures strongly in measuring/verifying/calculating things like pollution (yeah, it exists) and climate change (yeah, it exists). And as far as having minorities on every other page, that's a fact of life. At some point whites will no longer be the statistical majority in the United States. And if you peek into your child's classroom, you'll see all colors there right now. Why, is that a problem?

854 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:12:27pm

re: #830 Salamantis

Don't use such tainted vehicles to promote otherwise good ideas; rather, steal those ideas from them, and promote them via less noxious vehicles.

Frankly, the idea that Troofers, Birchers or Ronulans are capable of coming up with an idea worth stealing is far fetched in the extreme.

But the point is that it isn't even necessary to steal. Good ideas have a life of their own, and diffuse throughout the marketplace without any help.

855 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:12:42pm

re: #814 Jim in Virginia

What happens when the Left really starts to feel betrayed by Obama- either becaus he backs off, say, a public option for health care; or he loses on a critical issue and is blamed for it?

Ok, I'm off the soapbox.

Many on the progressive left are already angry with Obama. A short list of problems:
1. DOMA/DADT/gay rights
2. Civil liberties. The continuation and extension, and in some cases even expansion, of Bush/cheney policies and theories about executive power.
3. Health care reform. Public option necessary at minimum; Obama's made deals with big pharma, etc.
4. cap and trade

There are many, many more. It's ironic that the strongest criticisms of Obama are coming from the progressive left at the moment, and not from the right, which is obsessing over things like school speeches.

If the progressives get disgusted enough, there is a (slight) possibility of running another 3rd party candidate. I doubt that will happen in 2012, but it certainly could again in 2016.
The democrats ought to take that threat seriously; it's not like it didn't happen before. (Although Nader was a tool).

856 Bubbaman  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:13:08pm

re: #794 Sharmuta

WTH?

I am just saying that everything in today's public education has an attached agenda. When I was in school years ago our teachers didn't discuss politics in the classroom outside civics courses. Hell, I never knew if my teacher was gay, a republican, or whatever. It was irrelevant. Our textbooks were textbooks with appropriate factual information, not the crap that my kids are saddled with. We were in school to learn, not to become ignorant social activists.

Heck, I have no idea what the original intent of Obama's speech was, but I certainly understand the fury it caused given the guy's nascent ideas and worse yet his actions. To his credit I think that they defused the situation well, didn't answer the charges, and released a copy of the speech. Nonetheless, we live in a highly charged political environment and the fallout is a product of the circumstances he helped to create. We are not longer Americans - instead everyone is an aggrieved individual of some special interest group.

857 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:13:29pm

re: #789 Bubbaman

The only photo of an 80% majority person was that of some punk kid on a skateboard.

WTF is an 80% majority person?

858 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:14:12pm

re: #856 Bubbaman

The "WTH" was for your comments on minorities and majorities. And I'll say it again- WTH?

859 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:14:19pm

"Afro-Leninism commin' to you on a silver platter!"
Tea Party Express (video)

Lovely.
/

860 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:14:51pm

re: #855 iceweasel

One thing's for sure... the fired-up kids are disillusioned. I doubt they'll be out working as hard in '12.

861 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:15:01pm

re: #857 Jim in Virginia

Only missing one important limb. At most, a limb and a half.

862 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:15:08pm

re: #841 wrenchwench

It's been fun, but I have to go drink my tea and put away my socks.

Hasta mañana, lizards.

SOCKS?! I knew it! Wrenchwench is a closet spy from the Kos who uses her sock puppets to promote socialism at LGF!

/Rodan's C3 Logic

C3 = Crazed Conservative Crackpot

863 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:15:32pm

re: #857 Jim in Virginia

I think it's code for W H I T E
And wrong, on so many levels.

864 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:15:47pm

re: #862 Dark_Falcon

Please- don't taint conservatism by including rodant.

865 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:16:00pm
866 mich-again  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:16:30pm

re: #855 iceweasel

It's ironic that the strongest criticisms of Obama are coming from the progressive left at the moment, and not from the right, which is obsessing over things like school speeches.

True. The right seems more concerned with volume than substance in their criticisms of Obama.

867 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:17:00pm

re: #856 Bubbaman

Ditto on the minorities WTF...

And also what makes you think that AGW is just a political agenda? There is real science behind it.

And WTF do you have against skate boards?

868 Miss Trixie  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:17:21pm

re: #850 HoosierHoops

Happy Holidays Miss Trixie!
Hope you are well

Thanks {HH} and right back atcha! It's great to have a long weekend - the weather's puurrrfect, I've 4 more hours of football to enjoy and life is pretty good.

Hope things are loverly in your neck of the woods. :D

869 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:17:43pm

re: #855 iceweasel

Many on the progressive left are already angry with Obama. A short list of problems:
1. DOMA/DADT/gay rights
2. Civil liberties. The continuation and extension, and in some cases even expansion, of Bush/cheney policies and theories about executive power.
3. Health care reform. Public option necessary at minimum; Obama's made deals with big pharma, etc.
4. cap and trade

There are many, many more. It's ironic that the strongest criticisms of Obama are coming from the progressive left at the moment, and not from the right, which is obsessing over things like school speeches.

If the progressives get disgusted enough, there is a (slight) possibility of running another 3rd party candidate. I doubt that will happen in 2012, but it certainly could again in 2016.
The democrats ought to take that threat seriously; it's not like it didn't happen before. (Although Nader was a tool).

well said. You really do rock.

870 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:17:47pm

re: #849 Sharmuta

And that's why people shouldn't go to tea parties.

Actually, some of us going to tea parties may be the only way for us to hear any good ideas they might happen to happen upon and steal them, so they are not ceded sole possession of them by default, and get to be the only ones to sway people with them.

I'd like to see a Lizard at every Tea Party. Just one. With a tape recorder.

871 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:17:49pm

re: #859 Killgore Trout

"Afro-Leninism commin' to you on a silver platter!"
Tea Party Express (video)

Lovely.
/

Wow. Now there are some real ideas worth listening to.

cough

872 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:17:59pm

re: #857 Jim in Virginia

WTF is an 80% majority person?

Teh Aryans!

/

873 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:18:07pm

re: #859 Killgore Trout

"Afro-Leninism commin' to you on a silver platter!"
Tea Party Express (video)

Lovely.
/

Charming. I know I'll be there when the Tea Party Express rolls into Chicago. Because listening to racist bile is so much fun.

/sarc (spits)

874 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:18:59pm

re: #834 Van Helsing

That was good, but I don't like lark's vomit either.


Huh? You've confused me, not hard to do.

875 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:19:06pm

re: #855 iceweasel

You didn't mention the war being a problem?

876 Digital Display  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:19:18pm

re: #868 Miss Trixie

Thanks {HH} and right back atcha! It's great to have a long weekend - the weather's puurrrfect, I've 4 more hours of football to enjoy and life is pretty good.

Hope things are loverly in your neck of the woods. :D

It's been overcast all weekend which means Tuesday will be the most beautiful day of the month...What can you do?
*wink*

877 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:20:21pm

re: #761 rightymouse

my sons went to jewish school esp after one of mine kept getting into fights at chicago public skools because the anti semitic arabs did not like see a jew with a 'jew hat' on. and when it was one on one he won but the last time it was 6 against 1 and when we complained to the chicago public skools they did nothing.

frankly chicago public skools s&&&

878 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:20:24pm

re: #864 Sharmuta

Please- don't taint conservatism by including rodant.

Sorry Sharm. I was trying to come up with a right wing version of the term L3 that we could use to describe people on the right who have gane off the rails. I think you're right about this first attempt, but I'll keep trying.

879 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:21:02pm

re: #789 Bubbaman

If people don't believe that almost everything involved in public education is loaded with a political agenda, then they haven't picked up a textbook lately. My kids' chemistry book is less a study of chemistry and more a political diatribe on polution and global warming. No wonder American kids are dumba$$es! To boot the text is laden with kumbaya graphics and photos of minorities on every other page. The only photo of an 80% majority person was that of some punk kid on a skateboard.

After this comment, your account is hanging by a very slim thread. The only reason you still have it right now is because I haven't seen you post anything like this before.

Care to explain yourself?

880 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:21:29pm

re: #855 iceweasel

Cap and trade because it didn't go far enough?

I have a hard time picturing the progressives objecting to cap and trade because it's overreaching...

881 shiplord kirel  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:21:45pm

re: #732 Charles

"song_and_dance_man" is talking about HIMSELF as "the child." He believes he's literally a prophet who knows how the world is going to end, because God spoke directly to him. Not kidding.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Notice that he predicted some kind of disaster was going to hit LA in 2006. He actually emailed me several times with creepy, insane warnings that I needed to get out of town before the END.

After he was banned he started emailing me creepy threats that I was being "watched."

This is who the stalkers are hanging out with. The guy should be in a mental institution.

Oh, I get it:

The truth will set you free. Yet, in the blindness and linear materialism of your ignorance, you know not the truth.
The child at the age of three perceived the glory of the Tube, and learned the changing of the channels and first heard the Word from Yogi, the Bear, companion of BooBoo, and did set forth to learn the true Word of glory and wisdom.
At 18, the child was rudely sent forth into the darkness of the world, for his parents knew not the Word and therefore required him to work.
He dwelt in the streets and did flip burgers and wash cars to maintain the unity of scrawny body and luminous soul. He learned the wisdom of the dramans of Hashomodia and the Coptic Grace of the Abyssinian prophecies and did read the works of William Burroughs.
He set forth on the Way to San Jose and was stopped and blinded by the glory of the Word. The Word did speak: "Cease you wanderings and bring the Word to my people."

Now, of course, the child is a successful talk-show host and conspiracy theorist.

882 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:22:09pm

re: #874 Jim in Virginia

Huh? You've confused me, not hard to do.

I'm sorry, I thought you had asked someone why they didn't like crunchy frog.
I thought it was a Monty Python reference. IIRC crunchy frog was lovingly topped with lark's vomit...

And I liked what you had to say in your post.

We apologize for any inconvenience to the readers...

883 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:22:33pm

re: #871 Charles

But most of the people in that particular video seemed pretty calm and rational to me, and had reasoned objections . The 'Afro Leninism ' whack job , yelling like an idiot, was the exception rather than the rule.
(And of course, there was that Elvis impersonator at the end...)

884 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:22:58pm

re: #870 Salamantis

Actually, some of us going to tea parties may be the only way for us to hear any good ideas they might happen to happen upon and steal them, so they are not ceded sole possession of them by default, and get to be the only ones to sway people with them.

I'd like to see a Lizard at every Tea Party. Just one. With a tape recorder.

Why haven't some of the people known for covering protests gone to the tea parties?

885 Rent a Chicken  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:23:04pm

re: #877 yochanan

my sons went to jewish school esp after one of mine kept getting into fights at chicago public skools because the anti semitic arabs did not like see a jew with a 'jew hat' on. and when it was one on one he won but the last time it was 6 against 1 and when we complained to the chicago public skools they did nothing.

frankly chicago public skools s&&&

Dont they have zero tolerance for fighting? We have it here. Gang fights is automatic expell.

886 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:23:16pm

re: #873 Dark_Falcon

Dark, listen to the whole video, though. That racist guy was pretty much alone.

887 Digital Display  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:23:32pm

re: #882 Van Helsing

I'm sorry, I thought you had asked someone why they didn't like crunchy frog.
I thought it was a Monty Python reference. IIRC crunchy frog was lovingly topped with lark's vomit...

And I liked what you had to say in your post.

We apologize for any inconvenience to the readers...

LOL
Monty Python references will always get you in trouble..:)

888 Bubbaman  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:24:12pm

re: #853 theheat

Whoa. As I disclosed earlier, I'm only a fine arts major, so I can't say what are in books about chemistry that shouldn't be. But I think chemistry figures strongly in measuring/verifying/calculating things like pollution (yeah, it exists) and climate change (yeah, it exists). And as far as having minorities on every other page, that's a fact of life. At some point whites will no longer be the statistical majority in the United States. And if you peek into your child's classroom, you'll see all colors there right now. Why, is that a problem?

Not for me as I don't look at people or the world that way. But that is precisely the way in which the educational system tries its hand at social engineering. Personally, I could care less who and how many people are depicted in a high school chemistry book. But what I can tell you firsthand is that textbook committees sit down and count the number of minorities depicted and in what capacities. Learning and information is secondary.

889 mich-again  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:24:18pm

I think there is a possibility that the dramatic reduction in sunspot activity which would otherwise cool the earth will be more or less offset by the elevated amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere which would otherwise heat up the earth. Problem solved kind of.

890 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:24:21pm

re: #882 Van Helsing

I'm sorry, I thought you had asked someone why they didn't like crunchy frog.
I thought it was a Monty Python reference. IIRC crunchy frog was lovingly topped with lark's vomit...

And I liked what you had to say in your post.

We apologize for any inconvenience to the readers...

No the larks vomit, is it's own confection, next to the spring steel surprise.

891 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:24:28pm

re: #881 shiplord kirel

Please... what do the black diamonds with question marks in them mean?
Now that I think of it, I remember that poster. Wow, who knew?

892 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:24:44pm

re: #877 yochanan

my sons went to jewish school esp after one of mine kept getting into fights at chicago public skools because the anti semitic arabs did not like see a jew with a 'jew hat' on. and when it was one on one he won but the last time it was 6 against 1 and when we complained to the chicago public skools they did nothing.

frankly chicago public skools s&&&

Quite Concur!

893 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:25:25pm

re: #854 SixDegrees

Frankly, the idea that Troofers, Birchers or Ronulans are capable of coming up with an idea worth stealing is far fetched in the extreme.

But the point is that it isn't even necessary to steal. Good ideas have a life of their own, and diffuse throughout the marketplace without any help.

You get something much sooner if you actively go after it than if you passively wait for it to fall into your lap. By the time it does permeate the ideosphere sufficiently to attract your attention, it may be too late; the good idea may well be irrevocably identified with your adversaries by then. And then it politically will work for them, and against you.

I say poach the damn thing if it seems promising; this is just basic memetics.

894 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:25:34pm

re: #888 Bubbaman

Not for me as I don't look at people or the world that way. But that is precisely the way in which the educational system tries its hand at social engineering. Personally, I could care less who and how many people are depicted in a high school chemistry book. But what I can tell you firsthand is that textbook committees sit down and count the number of minorities depicted and in what capacities. Learning and information is secondary.

Because depicting minority kids learning science too, so that they too have positive scientific role models, is an issue because?

895 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:25:42pm

re: #855 iceweasel
I'm thinking more in terms of general public opinion, and the sort of trouble Congressional Democrats could make for Obama before (and after) the 2010 elections. I don't support much of Obama's agenda; on the other hand I don't think having a President who is as ineffective as Jimmy Carter was in 1979-80 does any of us much good.

896 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:25:43pm

re: #888 Bubbaman

GAZE

Enjoy the stalker blog

897 idioma  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:25:52pm

Good Fucking Grief.

898 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:26:50pm

re: #884 Sharmuta

Why haven't some of the people known for covering protests gone to the tea parties?

I dunno. Good question. Maybe we should ask Zombie.

899 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:27:14pm

re: #886 tradewind

Dark, listen to the whole video, though. That racist guy was pretty much alone.

I'm not sure that I care. Any event someone like that is at is an event I won't be at.

900 callahan23  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:27:51pm

re: #877 yochanan

my sons went to jewish school esp after one of mine kept getting into fights at chicago public skools because the anti semitic arabs did not like see a jew with a 'jew hat' on. and when it was one on one he won but the last time it was 6 against 1 and when we complained to the chicago public skools they did nothing.

frankly chicago public skools s&&&

I can relate I tells ya. You where right in taking your kid from the public school. When the school doesn't do anything it would go on for ever. Kids are brutal, I went through that for the better part of my elementary school. It sucks big time.

901 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:27:58pm

re: #898 Salamantis

If I was cynical, I would think it might be because images of righties behaving like lefties isn't in their interests to expose.

902 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:28:19pm

re: #887 HoosierHoops

re: #890 LudwigVanQuixote

And now the definitive answer from Inspector Parrot:Python
It was frosted with glucose...

903 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:28:30pm

re: #899 Dark_Falcon

/So you wouldn't have gone to the Democrat or Republican conventions, either one, then.../

904 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:28:39pm

re: #891 tradewind

I think it has to do with encoding differences between UTF8/Unicode and other character sets or encoding types. Possibly whatever version of some software Charles is using switched encoding types at some point in the past since that crazy comment. More often than not, I see those weird characters in place of quotation marks or apostrophes.

905 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:28:46pm

re: #888 Bubbaman

Not for me as I don't look at people or the world that way. But that is precisely the way in which the educational system tries its hand at social engineering. Personally, I could care less who and how many people are depicted in a high school chemistry book. But what I can tell you firsthand is that textbook committees sit down and count the number of minorities depicted and in what capacities. Learning and information is secondary.

Not, as far as I know, true at all. What firsthand experience led you to this belief?

906 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:29:04pm

re: #902 Van Helsing

re: #890 LudwigVanQuixote

And now the definitive answer from Inspector Parrot:Python
It was frosted with glucose...

Mega upding!

907 doubter4444  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:29:08pm

re: #722 NukeAtomrod

Why does Obama send his kids to a private school?

Not sure, but the fact that they are the daughters of the President could have a small bit to do with it.
Security, and all that.
Not the be all, as Amy Carter did, (I think), but things have changed since then, quite a bit.

908 rightymouse  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:29:16pm

Have a very nice rest of the evening!!

909 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:30:54pm

re: #888 Bubbaman

Uh, you just did look at it that way. In fact, you went through and counted how many whites compared to minorities, and said that it troubled you.

As a white parent of a tall, dark, and extremely handsome Little Heat, that kinda stuff pisses me the fuck off. He may have been one of those kumbayah minority picture kids that offends you. Likewise, he was one of those kids you'd see in the classroom with a permanent tan the likes of which I'd love to have. You better believe seeing other kids that look like him, or his friends, in a school book, doesn't offend him. And it doesn't offend me.

910 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:31:05pm

re: #904 ArchangelMichael

Okay, just wondered if it was some sekrit code symbol for the end of the world.
Once you get into computer code and writing it and stuff, I am sooo gone, since I am soo ignorant of it all. I just usually don't have a problem seeing text on my mac and thought maybe it was my fonts or something. Thanks...

911 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:31:31pm

re: #906 LudwigVanQuixote

Thanks.
Sales would plummet!!!

912 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:31:41pm

re: #902 Van Helsing

re: #890 LudwigVanQuixote

And now the definitive answer from Inspector Parrot:Python
It was frosted with glucose...

I had forgotten the ram's bladder cup!

913 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:32:16pm

Ugh. Recall that prior to the election, Obama's grandmother fell ill, and he went to visit her. There were many out there who claimed that it was a "false flag", and made conspiracy theories about Obama having sinister motives.

When she passed away, more conspiracy theories popped up in the same vein.

These idiots need to go join up with the hard-core leftists, 'cuz there ain't a damn "conservative" thing in what they are doing.

I truly hope Obama does not win a second term, if for no other reason than for not having to any more stupid garbage from the steaming, shit for brains conspiracy mongers.

914 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:32:19pm

re: #882 Van Helsing

I'm sorry, I thought you had asked someone why they didn't like crunchy frog.
I thought it was a Monty Python reference. IIRC crunchy frog was lovingly topped with lark's vomit...

And I liked what you had to say in your post.

We apologize for any inconvenience to the readers...


Got it. Crunchy Frog is a college reference for me- probably sourced from Monty Python but I don't recall that(it's been a long time) nor the lark's vomit quote.
Eyes are glazing over now...

915 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:32:30pm

re: #909 theheat

Uh, you just did look at it that way. In fact, you went through and counted how many whites compared to minorities, and said that it troubled you.

As a white parent of a tall, dark, and extremely handsome Little Heat, that kinda stuff pisses me the fuck off. He may have been one of those kumbayah minority picture kids that offends you. Likewise, he was one of those kids you'd see in the classroom with a permanent tan the likes of which I'd love to have. You better believe seeing other kids that look like him, or his friends, in a school book, doesn't offend him. And it doesn't offend me.

Right on!

916 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:32:36pm

re: #893 Salamantis

You get something much sooner if you actively go after it than if you passively wait for it to fall into your lap. By the time it does permeate the ideosphere sufficiently to attract your attention, it may be too late; the good idea may well be irrevocably identified with your adversaries by then. And then it politically will work for them, and against you.

I say poach the damn thing if it seems promising; this is just basic memetics.

Associating with slime like this isn't worth any advantage. The Tea Parties are now tainted beyond redemption; they are nothing more than a vehicle for Ron Paul and his band of insane fringers - including Troofers, the John Birch Society and much, much worse - to move one step closer to gaining power. I will never visit any such gathering except in protest - a waste of time, in my opinion - any more than I would visit a rally organized by neo-Nazis on the off-chance something vaguely agreeable might randomly pass their lips.

People tend to become what they associate with, and at best everyone's presence at these events adds to the Ronulan body count, which aids them in claiming support.

It isn't worth it.

917 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:32:41pm

re: #907 doubter4444

Not sure, but the fact that they are the daughters of the President could have a small bit to do with it.
Security, and all that.
Not the be all, as Amy Carter did, (I think), but things have changed since then, quite a bit.

I don't buy the security bit. SS could protect them at a public school just as easily.

He must be an elitist M'fer!!!
//

918 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:32:42pm

re: #901 Sharmuta

If I was cynical, I would think it might be because images of righties behaving like lefties isn't in their interests to expose.

I can't understand that rationale; it's not like the leftosphere isn't already doing it in spades, without giving us the benefit of hearing any emeralds that might be floating around in the dung piles.

919 Bubbaman  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:32:50pm

re: #894 LudwigVanQuixote

Because depicting minority kids learning science too, so that they too have positive scientific role models, is an issue because?

Not at all you are missing the point completely. I want each and every kid to succeed and to become the best that he/she can become. Again, I don't look at people and judge them based on phenotypic characteristics. But there are plenty of people who do and they are writing the textbooks.

920 Miss Trixie  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:33:09pm

re: #907 doubter4444

Not sure, but the fact that they are the daughters of the President could have a small bit to do with it.
Security, and all that.
Not the be all, as Amy Carter did, (I think), but things have changed since then, quite a bit.

How about that apology I asked you about in my #845? Man up, mister.

921 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:33:10pm

re: #912 LudwigVanQuixote

Cockroach cluster and Anthrax Ripple. Favorites of mine.

And this fun, but I have to make two machines that don't like each other have a pleasant chat.

Play nice kids.

922 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:33:22pm

re: #903 tradewind

/So you wouldn't have gone to the Democrat or Republican conventions, either one, then.../

Actually, I probably wouldn't. I'm not someone who enjoys long-winded speeches. But I would not have any objection to going because national party conventions tend to be able to keep the nutcases away from the speaker's podium, which the Tea Parties do not do. The other major objection I have to the Tea Parties in my state is that they vilified Mark Kirk (the GOP's best chance to take Obama's old Senate seat next year) and invited Alan Keyes, the fundamentalist loon who Obama trounced back in 2004.

923 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:33:47pm

re: #914 Jim in Virginia

He posted the sketch up thread.

924 mich-again  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:33:50pm

re: #888 Bubbaman

But what I can tell you firsthand is that textbook committees sit down and count the number of minorities depicted and in what capacities. Learning and information is secondary.

I thought they bought the textbooks from whichever publisher gave them the most graft. /

I don't agree with you about the alleged social engineering in textbooks. I have 3 kids who have always attended public schools and I haven't noticed that in their textbooks.

925 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:33:55pm

re: #918 Salamantis

I can't understand that rationale; it's not like the leftosphere isn't already doing it in spades, without giving us the benefit of hearing any emeralds that might be floating around in the dung piles.

Again- you're assuming there are emeralds.

926 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:34:02pm

re: #920 Miss Trixie

How about that apology I asked you about in my #845? Man up, mister.

Don't hold your breath. I have a son with autism in a private school too. Cause I'm an elitist M'fer!!!
//

927 Shug  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:34:47pm

re: #888 Bubbaman

I don't look at people or the world that way.

I call bullshit

928 Bubbaman  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:34:59pm

re: #905 SanFranciscoZionist

Not, as far as I know, true at all. What firsthand experience led you to this belief?

I sat on such a committee.

929 Ojoe  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:35:21pm

I remember when JFK was trying to get tubby school kids to do pushups. There even was a song, "Go You Chicken Fat Go."

930 captdiggs  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:35:46pm

IMO, Presidents should do an annual talk to school kids. Keep it inspirational, no political agenda included, and it's a good idea.

931 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:35:48pm

re: #856 Bubbaman

We are not longer Americans - instead everyone is an aggrieved individual of some special interest group.

Speak for yourself there, champ. The vast majority of Americans identify as Americans first, and not as members of a political party first, or anything else. It's a democracy. That means sometimes the other guy wins.

There was no reason for people to go Full Metal Wingnut over the idea of the POTUS speaking to kids. None except ODS and a simmering belief that despite being elected POTUS, he's somehow illegitimate and 'not one of us'.

932 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:36:13pm

re: #919 Bubbaman

I don't look at people and judge them based on phenotypic characteristics. But there are plenty of people who do and they are writing the textbooks.

Inclusion is not a judgment, it's simply inclusion.

933 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:36:15pm

re: #919 Bubbaman

Not at all you are missing the point completely. I want each and every kid to succeed and to become the best that he/she can become. Again, I don't look at people and judge them based on phenotypic characteristics. But there are plenty of people who do and they are writing the textbooks.

And how do the photographs of the kids on the book's cover affect in any way the chemistry involved in the book? Are Acids now one racial affiliation and bases another?

Does mathematics have a gender or a race or a party?

So if you truly have no problem, with anyone's phenotype, than how do the kids on the cover affect the content?

934 mich-again  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:36:43pm

re: #928 Bubbaman

I sat on such a committee.

So that is how all of them operate everywhere?

935 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:36:45pm

re: #907 doubter4444

Security wouldn't be a problem if he wanted them in the DC public schools,
Which no parent would, btw, who had a choice.
Same situation where I live. It's not an elitist thing, it's just that there are only about two public schools in this huge city where a child can even get an education... and they are optional schools run by the parents, to a large degree.
All the others are infested with gangs and filled with teachers who can't write a coherent sentence themselves, much less teach their students that basic skill . There's usually a principal arrested every year or so on some child molesting or statutory rape charge, and the bus drivers get arrested for DUI.

936 Ojoe  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:37:17pm

No matter what kind of people they put in my textbooks, I always drew beards and mustaches on them.

937 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:37:25pm

re: #919 Bubbaman

I join Shrug in calling bullshit.

938 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:37:33pm

re: #936 Ojoe

No matter what kind of people they put in my textbooks, I always drew beards and mustaches on them.

racist!
//

939 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:37:42pm

re: #924 mich-again

I thought they bought the textbooks from whichever publisher gave them the most graft. /

I don't agree with you about the alleged social engineering in textbooks. I have 3 kids who have always attended public schools and I haven't noticed that in their textbooks.

I have a feeling like a lot of the gripes that some on the right have have text books comes out of 3rd hand reports from things some guy heard on a talk show with 5 listeners who was reading something off of WND.

I do think there's way too much politics in K-12 public schools though.

940 Bubbaman  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:38:21pm

re: #909 theheat

Uh, you just did look at it that way. In fact, you went through and counted how many whites compared to minorities, and said that it troubled you.

As a white parent of a tall, dark, and extremely handsome Little Heat, that kinda stuff pisses me the fuck off. He may have been one of those kumbayah minority picture kids that offends you. Likewise, he was one of those kids you'd see in the classroom with a permanent tan the likes of which I'd love to have. You better believe seeing other kids that look like him, or his friends, in a school book, doesn't offend him. And it doesn't offend me.

Uh, I never looked at this issue until I sat on a progressive textbook acquisition committee. I never said that the pictures offended me. Kids are kids.

941 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:38:21pm

re: #928 Bubbaman

Then enlighten us: Describe the discussions to us and explain how decisions were made.

942 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:38:22pm

re: #931 iceweasel

Speak for yourself there, champ. The vast majority of Americans identify as Americans first, and not as members of a political party first, or anything else. It's a democracy. That means sometimes the other guy wins.

There was no reason for people to go Full Metal Wingnut over the idea of the POTUS speaking to kids. None except ODS and a simmering belief that despite being elected POTUS, he's somehow illegitimate and 'not one of us'.

Speak for yourself...

This is how I identify myself!

Youtube Video


And full metal wingnut is poetry.

943 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:38:25pm

re: #894 LudwigVanQuixote

Because depicting minority kids learning science too, so that they too have positive scientific role models, is an issue because?

The logic that I have heard along these lines, if I may call it such, is that if we weren't consciously trying to show non-white people, we would, obviously, just have pictures of white people in the books, as is normal. THerefore, the presence of pictures of people who aren't white indicates that the pictures were placed deliberately to alienate white students, and undermine their learning

944 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:38:35pm

re: #916 SixDegrees

Associating with slime like this isn't worth any advantage. The Tea Parties are now tainted beyond redemption; they are nothing more than a vehicle for Ron Paul and his band of insane fringers - including Troofers, the John Birch Society and much, much worse - to move one step closer to gaining power. I will never visit any such gathering except in protest - a waste of time, in my opinion - any more than I would visit a rally organized by neo-Nazis on the off-chance something vaguely agreeable might randomly pass their lips.

People tend to become what they associate with, and at best everyone's presence at these events adds to the Ronulan body count, which aids them in claiming support.

It isn't worth it.

What isn't worth it is allowing bad people sole possession of good ideas simply because we're squeamish about sifting shit for diamonds.

I'd also like to see all of these town halls taped and combed over; there's quite a bit of citizen ferment going on in them, cogitatively speaking, and who knows what priceless jewels might bubble up?

945 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:38:55pm

re: #936 Ojoe

No matter what kind of people they put in my textbooks, I always drew beards and mustaches on them.

Guilty...

Devil horns too. Fangs sometimes.

946 Ojoe  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:39:08pm

re: #938 rwdflynavy

Of course, with an ink eraser you could try to remove the clothes from the ladies.

947 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:39:09pm

re: #930 captdiggs

IMO, Presidents should do an annual talk to school kids. Keep it inspirational, no political agenda included, and it's a good idea.

I think a speech like the one Obama is giving tomorrow would be an excellent idea for any and all Presidents to give kids. I truly hope this becomes an annual event.

948 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:39:48pm

re: #943 SanFranciscoZionist

The logic that I have heard along these lines, if I may call it such, is that if we weren't consciously trying to show non-white people, we would, obviously, just have pictures of white people in the books, as is normal. THerefore, the presence of pictures of people who aren't white indicates that the pictures were placed deliberately to alienate white students, and undermine their learning

And sane people understand this is crazy we hope...

Alas...

949 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:39:53pm

re: #946 Ojoe

Of course, with an ink eraser you could try to remove the clothes from the ladies.

Now you're talking!

950 Ojoe  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:40:27pm

re: #945 ArchangelMichael

All the PC counting of images is SO a wasted effort.

951 Ojoe  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:40:57pm

re: #949 rwdflynavy

People come to LGF to find out the truth.

952 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:42:56pm

re: #928 Bubbaman

I sat on such a committee.

Interesting. And you came away with the conclusion that the academic content of the book was secondary to the racial balance of photographs? Where on earth was this committee meeting?

953 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:43:10pm

re: #925 Sharmuta

Again- you're assuming there are emeralds.

And you said that even if you found an emerald, you would toss it away.

No one ever finds anything by not looking for it. The streetlights there may be mainly dim bulbs, but one never knows where a stray nickel might gleam.

954 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:43:15pm

re: #951 Ojoe

People come to LGF to find out the truth.

Preach it brother!

955 Miss Trixie  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:43:28pm

re: #926 rwdflynavy

Don't hold your breath. I have a son with autism in a private school too. Cause I'm an elitist M'fer!!!
//

{rwdflynavy} on rightymouse's behalf.

956 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:43:55pm

re: #860 tradewind

One thing's for sure... the fired-up kids are disillusioned. I doubt they'll be out working as hard in '12.

That I think I have to disagree with. The youngest (college age) were also (in many cases, not all) the least likely to really have a grasp on anything other than hope and change and the election of a black POTUS. They aren't disillusioned by Obama because they didn't have concrete expectations of him in the first place. As for who they'll be voting for and working for in 2016, who knows. Everyone evolves through their 20's.
In any case there will be a new crop of uni students in 2016 also-- and in general, the demographics for the GOP aren't looking very good.

957 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:43:58pm

re: #945 ArchangelMichael

Guilty...

Devil horns too. Fangs sometimes.

And an arrow through their ears!

958 theheat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:44:01pm

re: #940 Bubbaman

You articulated what could only be construed as resentment, backed with numbers. Now you're backtracking.

I call bullshit. Double bullshit.

And, what if these minority kids were included purposefully, and counted? Is there a problem with making sure they're represented, or is that too offensive for you?

959 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:44:03pm

Washington DC area schools (from today's WaPo)

Montgomery County (suburban MD) 39% white, 23% black, 22% Hispanic, 15% Asian
Howard County (suburban MD) 57% white, 21% black, 5% Hispanic, 16% Asian
Prince Georges County (suburban MD) 5% white, 73% black, 19% Hispanic, 3% Asian
Fairfax County (suburban VA) 46% white, 11% black, 18% Hispanic, 18% Asian
DC public (45,000 students) 8% white, 78% black, 12% Hispanic, 2% Asian
DC public charter (25,000 students) 3% white, 84% black, 13% Hispanic
Who's a majority?

960 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:44:38pm

re: #955 Miss Trixie

{rwdflynavy} on rightymouse's behalf.

Thanks Miss Trixie!

961 yochanan  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:44:59pm

i guess some have missed Jessie Jackson's long term agenda.

frankly we do have a kind of balkanization of America to Deny it isn't being realistic either. the P.C. agenda isn't new either.

because Jews in America are considered a religion and not a ethnic group our history isn't taught in school. But Jewish history is a national one and not just a religion. and our history isn't taught in public school.

i wish all Americans thought of themselves as Americans but that isn't the truth. we shut down Devon ave for Indian and Pakistani independence day we don't have a 4th of July parade though.

962 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:45:02pm

re: #953 Salamantis

And you said that even if you found an emerald, you would toss it away.

You seriously think we have to go sewer diving for ideas?

If that is the state of conservative thinking at this point- the movement is dead.

963 Adrenalyn  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:45:55pm

so if the original intent was to "help the president" why is there not an outcry ?

if it was "to help the country" it would not have been so megalomaniacle
and no need for an outcry - this is all about him, nothing about the country


as for Bush reading to one classroom of kids
where is the similarity ?
22 kids versus 22 million kids ? that's "fair"

the media is not supposed to be a cheerleader for the POTUS
what we have is another media-type outlet, cheering the POTUS

964 wintercat  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:46:09pm

The problem as I see it is that both sides are so damn polarized that even if one side has a good idea the other side will not acknowledge it. Heck, acknowledge it?? No, they even fight it. I think I recall a time when people could freely exchange ideas and look for common ground. Those days are history. Sickening, really.

There is nothing wrong with Obama's speech. In fact, I think it is inspirational. Even if he said something controversial, don't parents ever talk to their own kids? What is wrong with having a follow-up discussion with your kids after the speech? Heck, what is wrong with talking with your kids on a daily basis and sharing your idea and listening to theirs?

MoveOn.org and FauxNews are defining our nation and their influence really is out of control. Put down your remote controls people and take to your children.

965 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:47:45pm

re: #956 iceweasel

Well, I am just going by my oldest, who voted for the first time in a presidential election because he was excited about the change Obama promised. He's pretty deflated, and reports the same for his buddies.
I just bite my lip.

966 John Neverbend  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:48:33pm

re: #671 Reginald Perrin

Sorry ...22 minutes late broken switch at...

Great, super! The reference to the Fall and Rise alone gets you an upding.

{Stands up and seat makes farting sound} Sorry CJ.

967 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:48:46pm

re: #962 Sharmuta

You seriously think we have to go sewer diving for ideas?

If that is the state of conservative thinking at this point- the movement is dead.

I say we should look everywhere for good ideas. As well as strive to come up with our own.

I'd rather have to go through the trouble of discarding twenty bad ideas than miss out on one good one.

968 mich-again  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:48:50pm

re: #939 ArchangelMichael

I do think there's way too much politics in K-12 public schools though.

I can say there have occasionally been certain History or Social Studies teachers who pushed their own politics, but it wasn't in the textbooks. I like having little chats with them during open house.

969 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:49:43pm

Mrs. JiV (She Who Must be Obeyed) is calling me to do chores. If I'm nice she will make me dinner. Later y'all, play safe.

970 doubter4444  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:50:06pm

re: #920 Miss Trixie

How about that apology I asked you about in my #845? Man up, mister.

Hey, I was busy, give it rest. Real life gets in the way.
I do apologize, because I forgot the / tag, went back and saw what got you riled.
No, I don't know her, as I don't know you.

Still, I to see someone condemn public schools while touting their superior private school is a galling, it's just an easy doge to claim all that schools are not worth go to, but there are many wonderful teachers and parents trying hard to make good schools better, and but one acceptable, because they just don't have the option, or desire to change.
As for "typical lib behavior", the smug righteousness I detest that type of lumping generalizing, it's neither correct, and it's just as stupid as someone from the left lumping all Republicans as birther nuts.
I don't do that, and I expect better from most on this board.

971 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:50:19pm

re: #869 LudwigVanQuixote

well said. You really do rock.

Cheers, LVQ. Just trying to keep up with you. I aim to please!

972 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:51:04pm

re: #963 Adrenalyn

so if the original intent was to "help the president" why is there not an outcry ?

if it was "to help the country" it would not have been so megalomaniacle
and no need for an outcry - this is all about him, nothing about the country

Here's what the speech said:

Your families, your teachers, and I are doing everything we can to make sure you have the education you need to answer these questions. I’m working hard to fix up your classrooms and get you the books, equipment and computers you need to learn. But you’ve got to do your part too. So I expect you to get serious this year. I expect you to put your best effort into everything you do. I expect great things from each of you. So don’t let us down – don’t let your family or your country or yourself down. Make us all proud. I know you can do it.


Hard to argue with what the actual words are unless we make up the words that aren't there.

973 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:53:07pm

re: #965 tradewind

Well, I am just going by my oldest, who voted for the first time in a presidential election because he was excited about the change Obama promised. He's pretty deflated, and reports the same for his buddies.
I just bite my lip.

What kind of change did they expect? I know the anti-war left is disappointed.

974 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:53:30pm

re: #942 LudwigVanQuixote

Speak for yourself...

This is how I identify myself!

And full metal wingnut is poetry.

Awesome! meat popsicle...
And it might be haiku time...

Malkin, Beck, and Ace
Frothing in their rage and hate
Full Metal Wingnut

975 Adrenalyn  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:54:09pm

re: #972 jaunte

Hard to argue with what the actual words are unless we make up the words that aren't there.

how can you tell what he said in the speech if it has not happened ?

what you're going on is the word of a politician and his apparatus
and simply repeating what they've already told us will happen
nothing new here
what if he simply spoke to the nations kids without any forewarning over what he might say (and later to change to quiet a growing hoopla (deserved or not, I am not one to say))

976 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:54:36pm

re: #944 Salamantis

What isn't worth it is allowing bad people sole possession of good ideas simply because we're squeamish about sifting shit for diamonds.

I'd also like to see all of these town halls taped and combed over; there's quite a bit of citizen ferment going on in them, cogitatively speaking, and who knows what priceless jewels might bubble up?

Not worth it. I will not associate myself with this tripe in any way, shape or form, period, end of story.

I'm certain some of them brush their teeth regularly. Regular tooth brushing, however, isn't an idea I need to learn from a Troofer.

977 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:55:15pm

re: #974 iceweasel

Awesome! meat popsicle...
And it might be haiku time...

Malkin, Beck, and Ace
Frothing in their rage and hate
Full Metal Wingnut, in bed

978 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:55:32pm

re: #975 Adrenalyn

I'm sorry, I'm having a little trouble following that.

979 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:58:03pm

re: #976 SixDegrees

Not worth it. I will not associate myself with this tripe in any way, shape or form, period, end of story.

I'm certain some of them brush their teeth regularly. Regular tooth brushing, however, isn't an idea I need to learn from a Troofer.

Well, one idea I'm glad that I haven't learned is the idea that I know in advance everything that a whole lot of US citizens might have to say.

980 ~Fianna  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:58:49pm

re: #972 jaunte

Hard to argue with what the actual words are unless we make up the words that aren't there.

but, but it's so much more fun to make up scary stories.

It's getting close to halloween, donchano.

981 Bubbaman  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 3:58:49pm

re: #941 Dark_Falcon

Then enlighten us: Describe the discussions to us and explain how decisions were made.

I'll be happy to. First members of the committee were given several textbooks for consideration. They were scored on a variety of factors including cost, content, presentation, language, accompaning materials etc. Members were assigned to review different facets of the books and report to the committee at large. The photographs and depictions were part of the analysis. During the discussions of a particular text it might have been dismissed for any number of reasons including lack of teacher support, complexity, lack of appropriate depictions etc. If you would care to know more in detail I would be happy to discuss it off line.

Let me give you a few examples of the inane questions that appear in the Chemistry workbook (and I'll only extract a couple from one chapter), How does insulation help conserve energy? What are two ways that chemist work to protect the environment? Define a pollutant.

Obviously, these aren't the only questions but they do offer a glimpse of what is being taught.

982 pink freud  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 4:00:56pm

It might help to know what is actually being pushed in the school by the admin and the teachers themselves in order to get a better big picture overview of how 0bama's speech may dovetail into the already-established agenda in the schools.

Here's a recap from the current issue of 'Rethinking Schools', the go-to publication for educators nationwide:

COVER STORY
Teaching for Environmental Justice
A collection of articles on the independent relationship between education, health, and the environment.

A Pedagogy for Ecology
Helping students build an ecological identity and a conscious connection to place opens them to a broader bond with the earth.

Beat It! Defeat It! Racist Cookies: We Won't Eat It!
How racist cookies spurred a teacher and her education students to take action.

'Bait and Switch'
Voucher advocates are fast-talking their way around a new report that cast doubts on the value of the program.
How racist cookies spurred a teacher and her education students to take action.

Teachable Moments Not Just for Kids
When parents avoid connecting, they model for children how not to talk about race and racism.

America's Army Invades Our Classrooms
The Army's new high-tech strategy for winning recruits.

Izzit Capitalist Propaganda?
DVDs from Izzit.org follow a familiar free-market script.

983 The Left  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 4:02:19pm

re: #880 Fenway_Nation

Cap and trade because it didn't go far enough?

I have a hard time picturing the progressives objecting to cap and trade because it's overreaching...

Hey Fenway!
Well, there isn't anything like a monolithic opinion on the left about anything, ever. Pretty much. I've seen objections to cap and trade because it didn't go far enough, but the other main one is that the democrats moved to have the energy provisions separated from the climate provisions, and people are really pissed about that. Now they're pushing that back, too. There's a general fear that they'll suck everything good out of it (relating ro climate change) and keep everything bad in it. Worst of both worlds kind of deal.

984 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 4:06:06pm

re: #982 pink freud

Yikes...is that publication put out by the NEA?

I'm not sure about the context of the last two, but the headlines really make the US Army and capitalism sound sinister.

985 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 4:08:28pm

re: #981 Bubbaman

Let me give you a few examples of the inane questions that appear in the Chemistry workbook (and I'll only extract a couple from one chapter), How does insulation help conserve energy? What are two ways that chemist work to protect the environment? Define a pollutant.

Obviously, these aren't the only questions but they do offer a glimpse of what is being taught.

How are those questions inane? I found them quite appropriate.

986 Adrenalyn  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 4:09:15pm

re: #978 jaunte

I'm sorry, I'm having a little trouble following that.

my meaning=save the defense of Obama for after the speech
if it happens as they say it will, non-political - fine

it not, fine - the right gets to whine

but this just smacks (to me, at least) of force-feeding an agenda to the kids

much like my public school in Georgia did many decades ago with daily religion (yeah, I am still a little ticked about that)

I sorta consider politics of this day as a religion of sorts
both sides bitterly clinging to their god/messiah, take your pick

987 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 4:10:38pm

re: #986 Adrenalyn

One of the reasons we're talking about the speech before it happens is all of the over-the-top speculation about it that's happening in advance.

988 ~Fianna  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 4:10:57pm

re: #981 Bubbaman

I'll be happy to. First members of the committee were given several textbooks for consideration. They were scored on a variety of factors including cost, content, presentation, language, accompaning materials etc. Members were assigned to review different facets of the books and report to the committee at large. The photographs and depictions were part of the analysis. During the discussions of a particular text it might have been dismissed for any number of reasons including lack of teacher support, complexity, lack of appropriate depictions etc. If you would care to know more in detail I would be happy to discuss it off line.

Let me give you a few examples of the inane questions that appear in the Chemistry workbook (and I'll only extract a couple from one chapter), How does insulation help conserve energy? What are two ways that chemist work to protect the environment? Define a pollutant.

Obviously, these aren't the only questions but they do offer a glimpse of what is being taught.

None of those questions are inane.

The first of those questions is a great math/science application question, which puts what a student is learning in two different classes in to a context they can understand.

Again, the second question is an interesting applications question, and also puts in to context some of the real-life problems that working scientists tackle. That sounds like a question that might get a few kids to consider careers in the sciences, which is undoubtedly a good thing.

The third question is also relevant, since pollution is something that doesn't only affect the environment. Any experiment can be tainted by pollutant substances (pollutant: a substance that contaminates; a substance that adversely altars the physical, chemical or biological properties of an environment). Pollution isn't something that doesn't exist - any hiker knows that you should carry water purification tablets because a lot of natural water sources have pollutants in the which you don't want to drink - most of which aren't human caused. In this example, bacteria, urine or feces are pollutants.

In terms of how people are depicted in books, yes it does matter. I'm a woman that works in technology, and I don't apply for jobs where the job description is filled with "he will";"he does"; and "he is responsible for" - I assume that if they can't figure out that women might possibly be qualified for the job, they're not worth my time.

There are a lot of reasons that women are under-represented in scientific and technological fields and one of the main reason is that girls simply aren't encouraged to consider those fields, to study how women have impacted those fields, nor do they see women working in those fields to approach as mentors and teachers.

All things being equal, a book that shows kids as much diversity as possible and encourages all kids to consider careers in the sciences should be chosen over another book that only shows white guys.

989 Adrenalyn  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 4:12:52pm

re: #987 jaunte

One of the reasons we're talking about the speech before it happens is all of the over-the-top speculation about it that's happening in advance.

indeed, it is way over the top
politics has grown so bitter the last year that it is hard to swallow any of what passes for "discourse"

990 pink freud  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 4:12:56pm

re: #984 Fenway_Nation

Yikes...is that publication put out by the NEA?

I'm not sure about the context of the last two, but the headlines really make the US Army and capitalism sound sinister.

You can read about them here.

991 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 4:18:45pm

re: #983 iceweasel


And there are some of us who know that this is going to wreck the air frieght, utility, railway, coal, trucking, energy exploration or maritime shipping industries as it stands...[but that's OK...there's plenty of 'green' jobs in this robust economy]

If the earth is truly careening towards some AGW-related apocolypse, then cap and trade is basically akin to the officers and stewards aboard the Titanic demanding payment from the passengers to get into lifeboats that aren't there after the ship has hit the iceberg...

992 tradewind  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 4:22:17pm

Jim Greer gives Obama speech thumbs up...
[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]

993 Shug  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 4:26:20pm

I feared this would happen when people started "outing" former lizards and people at the stalker site.
I see that they have linked to some facebook page.
Some of you who would prefer to remain anonymous might want to give it a second thought since you might have your name outed amongst some very angry people.
I'd go and delete those comments. Course it's probably already too late.

994 Bubbaman  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 4:26:25pm

re: #958 theheat

You articulated what could only be construed as resentment, backed with numbers. Now you're backtracking.

I call bullshit. Double bullshit.

And, what if these minority kids were included purposefully, and counted? Is there a problem with making sure they're represented, or is that too offensive for you?

Naw, I'm not backtraking and you can construe it any way you want. My original intent was to express my understanding - though not my sympathy as to why so many people felt threatened by the original intent of the President's speech. We live in a harshly polarized society and it seems as though it is becoming increasingly worse. It seems that today everything is perceived as a slight and nearly instantaneously kooks bubble to the surface and drive the debate.

I had hoped after the elections that the level of hate rhetoric would have diminished, but it seems to be increasing. I can't turn on a news station or pick up a paper without being inundated with a politcal rant from either side. I find myself spending more time watching sports, NGO, or the history channel.

It seems that everything is agenda driven and that the era of respectful debate or discussion is over. If you consider this to be resentful, then so be it.

995 Bubbaman  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 4:48:05pm

re: #988 ~Fianna

None of those questions are inane.

The first of those questions is a great math/science application question, which puts what a student is learning in two different classes in to a context they can understand.

Again, the second question is an interesting applications question, and also puts in to context some of the real-life problems that working scientists tackle. That sounds like a question that might get a few kids to consider careers in the sciences, which is undoubtedly a good thing.

The third question is also relevant, since pollution is something that doesn't only affect the environment. Any experiment can be tainted by pollutant substances (pollutant: a substance that contaminates; a substance that adversely altars the physical, chemical or biological properties of an environment). Pollution isn't something that doesn't exist - any hiker knows that you should carry water purification tablets because a lot of natural water sources have pollutants in the which you don't want to drink - most of which aren't human caused. In this example, bacteria, urine or feces are pollutants.

In terms of how people are depicted in books, yes it does matter. I'm a woman that works in technology, and I don't apply for jobs where the job description is filled with "he will";"he does"; and "he is responsible for" - I assume that if they can't figure out that women might possibly be qualified for the job, they're not worth my time.

There are a lot of reasons that women are under-represented in scientific and technological fields and one of the main reason is that girls simply aren't encouraged to consider those fields, to study how women have impacted those fields, nor do they see women working in those fields to approach as mentors and teachers.

All things being equal, a book that shows kids as much diversity as possible and encourages all kids to consider careers in the sciences should be chosen over another book that only shows white guys.

With respect to the questions one must consider the context. The question about insulation was posed with a twist about environmentalism. It didn't ask how did insulation work, what are the benefits or potential downsides, etc. A good scientist would want to consider all of the information. Insulation isn't always beneficial and depending on the circumstances it can exact heavy environmental tolls.

You presented a good point about "pollution" but again this wasn't the context in which the question was presented. We generally think of "contaminants" in chemical processes or reactions as it carries less of a political connotation.

FWIW I have always encouraged my kids to pursue their strengths and to improve upon their weaknesses - something the old man could learn. My daughter has great aptitude in math and science and I am always seeking out opportunities for her in the sciences.

996 leftover54  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 4:51:23pm

re: #43 Sharmuta

Fear of the unknown, period. Don't be so quick to judge the parents who were concerned.There was so little known about the man because the press did not do their job - they even admitted it. His ties to Ayers/SDS, the Acorn/Alinsky 'community organizer', Rev Wright etc., -
no cause for concern ?? C'mon. You wouldn't want your teenager hangin' out with a guy that had the associations he has/had ? 'Birds of a feather' and 'you're judged by the company you keep' sound familiar ??
His own supporters are confused. O was anything you wanted him to be because no one knew exactly where he was coming from. Remember after one of his campaign speeches some girl was taped exclaiming
"I don't have to worry about my rent or gas for my car anymore...". Wonder how thats all workin' out for her ?
She didn't know he meant she'd be unemployed, loose her home and have to live in her car which hasn't been drivin' in months 'cause she has no money for gas. He didn't lie to her, she just heard what she wanted to hear because he was saying 'nothing'. Its going to take a little time - he will eventually be a 'known' as time passes and folks realize the sky hasn't fallen, the hammer & sickle isn't flying on Penn. Ave. Personally I would not have kept my kid home from school if that tells ya anything about where my heads at.
Just sayin'...

997 slartybartfast  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 5:33:01pm
I’ve read the whole thing, looking for that sekrit socialism everyone is so sure must be hidden in there, and I just couldn’t find it.

I think the closest brush with "sekrit socialism" is in this sentence:

You’ll need the insights and critical thinking skills you gain in history and social studies to fight poverty and homelessness, crime and discrimination, and make our nation more fair and more free.

Is it necessary to "make our nation more fair"? Only if you think the current economic system is unfair. Some would go as far as to say, "Capitalism's not natural, it's not fair and it's not permanent. It will produce either socialism or barbarism. Which will it be?"

998 Beller0ph1  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 5:46:53pm

re: #15 mikey_dallas

Many people read into this as an Animal Farm or Lenin thing, where Dear Leader would take the children and indoctrinate them into little Marxists. Now that the text is out and it doesn't look like what it COULD have been, looks OK.

999 Maui Girl  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 6:29:32pm

I dunno, color me stupid but I thought the whole furor over this speech wasn't the speech itself but certain aspects of the "suggested lesson plan follow up?

Anyway, I am so sick of presidential speeches. One today, one tomorrow, one to congress on Wednesday. I'm speeched out.

1000 efuseakay  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 6:51:45pm

But how many revisions did it take before they released it to the public? ;)

1001 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 7:05:58pm
1002 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 7:11:43pm

re: #1001 semrocks

Karma: 3

semrocks

(Logged in)
Registered since: Jun 25, 2007 at 8:24 am
No. of comments posted: 6
No. of links posted: 0

Well, your opinion certainly carries a lot of weight around here. All six comments of it.

GAZE

1003 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 7:13:25pm

re: #1001 semrocks

DOE is the Department of Energy.

1004 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 7:15:20pm

Flouncers to the left of me, flouncers to the right.

1005 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 7:32:38pm

re: #3 Sharmuta

That's just evil. ///

...and [obviously] not in line with conservative values either.
/

1006 Mich-again  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 7:41:03pm

I read it and I think President Obama's speech is just fine. And we will see just how unpolitical this sort of event really is when a Republican President gets the opportunity to do the same someday in the future and the teachers and schools all go along with it. But we won't really know till then. I do think that if GWB had proposed the exact speech last year to schoolchildren across America he would have been laughed out of the room and the idea roundly dismissed. Maybe the AFT and NEA will give the next GOP President the chance, but color me skeptical.

1007 Gretchen  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 8:26:31pm

re: #1006 Mich-again

I read it and I think President Obama's speech is just fine. And we will see just how unpolitical this sort of event really is when a Republican President gets the opportunity to do the same someday in the future and the teachers and schools all go along with it. But we won't really know till then. I do think that if GWB had proposed the exact speech last year to schoolchildren across America he would have been laughed out of the room and the idea roundly dismissed. Maybe the AFT and NEA will give the next GOP President the chance, but color me skeptical.

I think that's exactly right.

I would have let my kids see the speech (the school has opted out), but it would have been smart of the White House to post the text along with the announcement, and skip the lesson plans. The speech they have posted is lovely and inspiring. Perhaps some will find inpiration.

I think parents should be vigilant, and I think people without kids are a bit clueless how biased and vocal school teachers have become, and how fearful kids are to voice opinions the teachers don't agree with.

1008 gschwim  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 8:51:40pm

It's been a few months since I visited this site. Did something happen while I was gone? LGF seems to have acquired a pronounced liberal bias.

Regarding the speech, I suppose I am the only one that found it to be mostly pablum. And I find the political corrrectness, such as referring to "member of the military" instead of "soldier" irritating. Nothing about getting an education so as to enrich oneself and to achieve personal happiness for oneself.

And, laugh all you want, LFG, but I do find in the speech an undercurrent of socialism. Everything he tells the students to do, he tells them to do in the spirit of public service - i.e., find a cure for AIDs to help AIDs victims. Nothing about discerning a demand for a product or service (which very much includes an AIDs cure) to fill a need and earn a profit - i.e., capitalism. Pursue profit, which you can earn only by fulfilling a need for a product or service, and the "helping others" part is automatic.

1009 jaunte  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 8:54:14pm

re: #1008 gschwim

1. Heard it way too many times before.
2. Soldiers are specific to the Army; member of the military is all-inclusive and briefer than mentioning all branches.
3. He's a public servant; that's where he's coming from.

1010 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 10:02:33pm

re: #1008 gschwim

It's been a few months since I visited this site. Did something happen while I was gone? LGF seems to have acquired a pronounced liberal bias.

Nothing has happened. This seemingly acquired liberal bias is in your imagination.

Regarding the speech, I suppose I am the only one that found it to be mostly pablum. And I find the political corrrectness, such as referring to "member of the military" instead of "soldier" irritating.

It's not PC, it's inclusive. Not every member of the US Military is a combat soldier. Many have desk jobs.

1011 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 10:03:27pm

re: #1008 gschwim

Another sleeper whose first comment in almost two years is to diss LGF. Man, is this getting tediously predictable.

1012 Coracle  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 10:06:52pm

re: #1008 gschwim

Nothing about discerning a demand for a product or service (which very much includes an AIDs cure) to fill a need and earn a profit - i.e., capitalism. Pursue profit, which you can earn only by fulfilling a need for a product or service, and the "helping others" part is automatic.

That sounds... Ferengi.

1013 shimoda  Mon, Sep 7, 2009 10:53:27pm

re: #882 Van Helsing

I'm sorry, I thought you had asked someone why they didn't like crunchy frog.
I thought it was a Monty Python reference. IIRC crunchy frog was lovingly topped with lark's vomit...

And I liked what you had to say in your post.

We apologize for any inconvenience to the readers...

<python nerd>
Sorry to disagree with you but Crunchy Frog was lovingly frosted with glucose. It was Ram's Bladder Cup that was garnished with lark's vomit.
</python nerd>

I go away again.

1014 jordash1212  Tue, Sep 8, 2009 3:59:45am

Hahaha excellent post.

1015 jcbunga  Tue, Sep 8, 2009 4:20:27am

So the speech is fine.

That's great.

My take on this is how much of reality and principle do you have to suspend to approve of The One saying anything to your children? My son is in high school and his district decided not to air the speech.

If you believe this president has thrown the Constitution and the nation out the window in favor of a very radical and personal agenda, it doesn't matter how nice the speech is.

I don't want this guy making a speech to my dog, let alone my son.

1016 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Sep 8, 2009 5:28:46am

Sorry, but I attached the wrong link to my #997 above. I should have linked to the page that provided the quote. It's here.

The "unfairness" of capitalism is a common Socialist talking point: so prevalent that the Foundation for Teaching Economics says it's a "widely held belief that capitalism is flawed because it is not fair--especially, that capitalism is not fair to the poor."

I really thought it was a good speech and, like Maui Girl above, I think a lot of people got "all wee-wee'd up" about the lesson plan originally meant to accompany the speech.

1017 badger1970  Tue, Sep 8, 2009 6:34:05am

To many I's in the speech to make it anything more than a tribute to himself and his amazing upbringing. Another boring narcissistic talk down.

1019 The Left  Tue, Sep 8, 2009 7:03:45am

re: #1017 badger1970

To many I's in the speech to make it anything more than a tribute to himself and his amazing upbringing. Another boring narcissistic talk down.

Have you counted the number of c's in the speech yet? I believe they stand for 'commie' and reveal Obama's seekrit message of telling our nation's children to be average and be awarded C's as grades.

It's true. Glnn Bk told me so.

1020 elclynn  Tue, Sep 8, 2009 7:17:06am

Being relatively new to this site, I mostly read the comments and articles for insight and rarely post a comment. While I do not find the "speech" objectionable, I did think the "lesson plan" was a little over the top. And, no, I do not think Obama is an exceptional President or human being.

1021 KansasMom  Tue, Sep 8, 2009 7:32:59am

My problem isn't with the speech. I'm sure its inspirational and written carefully so as not to be offensive.
My problem is that I disagree with the direction Obama is taking this nation, I disagree with just about everything he has done or tried to do since taking office.
This speech puts me in a tricky position. I teach my children to respect the President, and I won't badmouth him in front of my kids. But I don't exactly want my kids getting the kind of hero-worship for Obama that we all saw during the election either.
I feel like Obama is bypassing me and going straight to my kids in order to gain favor. And that's unnerving, to say the least.

1022 drcordell  Tue, Sep 8, 2009 7:49:41am

re: #1021 KansasMom

My problem isn't with the speech. I'm sure its inspirational and written carefully so as not to be offensive.
My problem is that I disagree with the direction Obama is taking this nation, I disagree with just about everything he has done or tried to do since taking office.
This speech puts me in a tricky position. I teach my children to respect the President, and I won't badmouth him in front of my kids. But I don't exactly want my kids getting the kind of hero-worship for Obama that we all saw during the election either.
I feel like Obama is bypassing me and going straight to my kids in order to gain favor. And that's unnerving, to say the least.

You've seen the speech, how can you have any problem with it now that you've seen the content? Seriously. You're so afraid of Obama that you don't want him to tell your kids to study hard?

1023 drcordell  Tue, Sep 8, 2009 7:53:57am

re: #1018 weimdog02

When Bush spoke to students, Democrats investigated, held hearings...

Did you actually read the article? Notice how their complaint was that Bush was using education funds to produce a speech, when he was also cutting the national education budget. Compared to Glenn Beck screaming that Obama is going to "indoctrinate" children and State GOP heads ranting about Obama's secret Socialist message.

If the GOP had waited until after the speech, and banged Obama for wasting funds in a recession, it wouldn't be outrageous. That's politics. What is going on now, accusing the President of trying to brainwash children, is complete and utter batshit insanity. And it's going to get someone killed.

1024 theatheistjew  Tue, Sep 8, 2009 8:33:41am

The marginalized Right is embarrassing themselves big time this time around, and they are embarrassing the entire USA. It is just ludicrous to even debate this topic.

1025 danshelb  Tue, Sep 8, 2009 9:54:18am

re: #823 Bobblehead

I know, it's amazing how little emphasis they put on History, Social Studies and Science anymore. Very sad that the US is sliding down the education slope the last 10 or 20 years.
Dan

1026 danshelb  Tue, Sep 8, 2009 9:58:59am

re: #1024 theatheistjew
I support the prerogative of *any* president be they GOP or Dem,
lib or conservative, to talk to our kids. I think it is a great civics opportunity and should be done ore frequently. That said, this is no time for political messages to be inserted or introduced. The Right, while probably over-reacting, is still providing a valuable service acting as a watch dog to ensure the message is a generic "study hard, stay in school" type of message. When Bush Sr. spoke in Va back in the early 90's I think Gephardt and others pulled the Education Sec'y in front of Congress to testify.

1028 chukardog  Tue, Sep 8, 2009 5:44:36pm
Dude. I really hate to see you swallowing the bogus talking points like this. You're taking ONE sentence from the lesson plan so out of context it's just ridiculous.

And that sentence was removed when people started yelling about it, not because they were guilty of anything, but to try to head off the fake outrage.

It didn't work, of course, because fake outrage is its own reward.

Please don't join the paranoid mob. Criticize Obama for real things, not for this empty, foolish nonsense.

Of course Obama never was associated with the Annenburg challenge right? Remember that one? Anyone? it's not about one single issue, its the constant barrage of liberal pap kids are subjected to from grade school all the way through college. The decline in our education system can be tied directly to the NEA and the Teachers unions, all of which are arms of the DNC. As a father of three kids I see the brainwashing all the time. Why send out a lesson plan at all if this was so "innocent"?

1029 chukardog  Tue, Sep 8, 2009 5:59:01pm

I might add that I found nothing wrong with the speech. The what can you do the help our dear leader was over the top, was my issue. It never pegged my radar though, Like Charles said, there's a lot more to be up in arms about. This is nearly insignificant in the whole scheme.


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Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
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