You don't have a extra 10 minutes to shoot it down ? /

I can't tell, they can't actually believe that is real? Can they?

Charles, first you have to do a post revealing your secret dossier on Regards, Brian -- he's waiting!

American Thinker is doing that now? Jeez...

Why in the world would they think WND and/or Corsi have any credibility?

They must think you're as dumb as them. Glad you didn't fall for it. (not that I was worrying.)

When will these morons learn:

If you get Obama thrown out of office, we end up with Joe Biden as president!

Just let it go.

They should change their name to American Unthinker.

Choice comment from there: "The fact that the certificate shows eight toes should not only raise the question as to country of birth but planet of birth."

re: #7 Racer X

When will these morons learn:

If you get Obama thrown out of office, we end up with Joe Biden as president!

Just let it go.

Biden's so dumb I'm startin' to think he's really a Republican.

Limbaugh used to promote that site. That's all you need to know.

re: #9 mikalm

Oh come on, that just means he was born in Springfield.

And why didn't they link to LGF twice? One for the reference, and again for the actual throbbing memo?

And they're waiting!

*crickets*

Where's that funny area 51 certificate?

That was the best.

Space Aliens are among us, you know.

I've had people tell me they thought Abraham Lincoln was from space, no kidding.

I'm all for new "Dog Poop Laws" in Washington DC.

Where there is a pile of dog shit a Republican or two will step in it.

re: #15 Ojoe

Where's that funny area 51 certificate?

That was the best.

Space Aliens are among us, you know.

I've had people tell me they thought Abraham Lincoln was from space, no kidding.

Venus, I'd wager.

"I have no idea if this is a forgery or not. But if it's real, it would be, as they say, a pretty big deal."

And how many fake documents can you say that about?

re: #3 Throbert McGee

Charles, first you have to do a post revealing your secret dossier on Regards, Brian -- he's waiting!

With all these pressing issues, I'll have to start prioritizing my time. Sorry, Regards Brian is going to have to wait until I've thoroughly proven that Barack Obama is a sekrit Moslem Manchurian candidate.

Next time President Obama is at the beach, maybe he will leave a footprint ... then we can compare it to the baby footprint on the document! How can we organize such and operation? C'mon, who's with me!??

OT:
Everywhere I look nowadays I see movies and TV shows based on Vampires. It's supposed to be cool I guess, but I find it just a bit creepy.

Twilight - alternate ending.

re: #20 Steverino

Next time President Obama is at the beach, maybe he will leave a footprint ... then we can compare it to the baby footprint on the document! How can we organize such and operation? C'mon, who's with me!??

If I don't make it by three days from tomorrow, go ahead and start without me.

Which certificate is the real fake?

Certificate #32018 or #47,044?

How amusing, falsifying that document hardly needs an expert, it's a job for an amateur.

Since Charles Johnson is now critical of what he calls “Nirthers”

They say that like it's a bad thing.

re: #16 jorline

I'm all for new "Dog Poop Laws" in Washington DC.

Where there is a pile of dog shit a Republican or two will step in it.

A post so lacking in substance, might as well throw it into two threads!

When did people start putting footprints on birth certificates? I doubt that it was done in 1961.

re: #19 Charles

With all these pressing issues, I'll have to start prioritizing my time. Sorry, Regards Brian is going to have to wait until I've thoroughly proven that Barack Obama is a sekrit Moslem Manchurian candidate.

I would think that an up-front retainer of $50K and an agreement to pay your fees at the rate of $2K/hour would not be unreasonable.

Thank you for returning to "nirther" from "birther". Need some pride in our LGF lexicon.

Now I will get on with laughing about the fact that AmericanStinker is linking a Jerome Corsi article from Whirled Nut Drooly. A cascading avalanche of kookery. The Wingularity!

9:09
9/09

re: #27 notreallyme

It was done before that, at least in the mid-'50's.

re: #27 notreallyme

Mine from 1950 has a foot print.

Good night all

re: #29 ArchangelMichael

Thank you for returning to "nirther" from "birther". Need some pride in our LGF lexicon.

Hear, hear! Let us not adopt the lexicon of the savages we seek to educate.

re: #27 notreallyme

When did people start putting footprints on birth certificates? I doubt that it was done in 1961.

Mine was on a 1951 certificate. At least, that's what I've been led to believe. I really don't recall doing it.

re: #32 Ojoe

'night, Ojoe.

re: #33 Bagua

Uh- we got "nirther" from pamela geller.

Hey Night Lizards! I was very frustrated earlier, so I decided to log off and do laundry. I also decided to read some philosophy. Strangely, I now feel better.

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

Born in NY State, 1960. No footprint on mine.

re: #33 Bagua

Hear, hear! Let us not adopt the lexicon of the savages we seek to educate.

I don't seek to educate anyone.
Let 'em learn the hard way, just like me.

re: #36 Sharmuta

Uh- we got "nirther" from pamela geller.

I know, it was a typo, my attempt at humour.

Mine has a footprint. And, it's D@MN cute footprint too!

Throbbing Nirth!

Another day, another nirth certifkit.

The footprint is kind of cute.

Was anyone surprised that he put tort reform on the table?

Interesting. The writer backs off at the end a bit saying he is 80% sure President Obama is a US Citizen. I actually like American Thinker, they have some good stuff on there. But I'm sure the entire site will be discarded as complete lunacy now.

re: #42 Killgore Trout

Throbbing Nirth!

Band name.

re: #43 Gus 802

I think Obama's footprint is bigger than that. This may be a fake.

re: #47 jaunte

I think Obama's footprint is bigger than that. This may be a fake.

I'm 80% sure.

re: #45 MightySkip

Same here. Reading it again, it sounds like AT was asking CJ to debunk it, rather than verify it.

13 more things that don't make sense

re: #47 jaunte

I think Obama's footprint is bigger than that. This may be a fake.

Clearly it is a fake. The real long form is said to bear the print of a cloven hoof. That's why it is locked in a vault.

//

re: #36 Sharmuta

Uh- we got "nirther" from pamela geller.

Her typo. I know she didn't mean it intentionally and she sure as hell wasn't mocking the movement. We took something hilarious and ran with it.

Damn...

American Thinker says, "I have no idea if this is a forgery or not. But if it's real..."

So "Thinker" actual means "Clueless." Will the inversions never stop?

re: #44 austin_blue

Was anyone surprised that he put tort reform on the table?

Howard Dean

O rly? Ya rly.

re: #49 mikalm

He does come off as being sarcastic though. Tone of writing is almost certainly determined by the interpretation of the reader. He sounds more upset that McCain had to prove his citizenship but Obama didn't.

A funny Obama motto: "A penny saved is a penny taxed."

re: #47 jaunte

I think Obama's footprint is bigger than that. This may be a fake.

I demand to see the umbilical cord at once!

//

re: #52 ArchangelMichael

Oh yeah? I always assumed it was a contraction of No Birth(certificate)er

re: #49 mikalm

Same here. Reading it again, it sounds like AT was asking CJ to debunk it, rather than verify it.

There's not much to debunk. It's a document produced by a man with an agenda and a fist full of cash. No one, in the history of the world, has ever been able to get forged documents in a third world country with hard currency, I'm sure. Therefore- it must be legit. I also have a bridge in New York for sale, if anyone's buying...

re: #54 Racer X

Howard Dean

As an MD? Probably not. It is a huge cost to medical care.

re: #57 jorline

A funny Obama motto: "A penny saved is a penny taxed."

A penny saved is a Congressional spending oversight.

re: #59 mikalm

Oh yeah? I always assumed it was a contraction of No Birth(certificate)er

No the shrieking harpy is allergic to spell check and left "Nirth Certifikit" up as the post title for several hours.

Oliver Stone in talks for Ahmadinejad documentary

Moviemaker Oliver Stone is in talks with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to star in a big screen documentary - just weeks after he wrapped filming his insight into the life of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.

/next up, bin Laden

re: #64 Killian Bundy

What a thorough douchebag.

re: #64 Killian Bundy

Oliver Stone in talks for Ahmadinejad documentary

/next up, bin Laden

Geez. Oliver Stone is a mill-Stone about the necks of sane liberals.

Why can't we get shut of you?!

13 things that do not make sense

re: #45 MightySkip

Interesting. The writer backs off at the end a bit saying he is 80% sure President Obama is a US Citizen. I actually like American Thinker, they have some good stuff on there. But I'm sure the entire site will be discarded as complete lunacy now.

Yep. This is not the first Nirther article they've published, and they also publish the ravings of shrieking harpy Pamela Geller.

Discarded.

Every new fake certificate generated adds to the preponderance of evidence that Obama is not a US citizen.
/

After extensive research, calling in many IOUs and giving up the secret of level 7 Room 666 drawer 7 I have obtained Obama's real birth certificate from Alpha Centauri

Prove me wrong!

All your Presidents are belong to us!

HAHAHAHA!

re: #70 jcm

After extensive research, calling in many IOUs and giving up the secret of level 7 Room 666 drawer 7 I have obtained Obama's real birth certificate from Alpha Centauri

Prove me wrong!

All your Presidents are belong to us!

HAHAHAHA!

They misspelled his name on the third line.
Didn't you proofread this?

I believe all the footprint birth certifictes are novelty items. The real ones don't have them. I recall many years ago being told not to being in a footprint birth certificate as a legal document. I have a footprint one but the real one doesn't have it.

Check the date on it. Shouldn't it be done the way it is done everywhere but the USA...day then month then year...not month-day-year.

You know ... I think this one is legit.

No - really.

Check out the footprint - see the the whitespace between the toes and the foot? If you turn it sideways you see arabic script for "There is only one god and his prophet is Mohammad."

That proves it is BHO's footprint.

These people owe me some aspirin.

Meanwhile, from the Left Wing of the Loony Bin...

Steel version of Velcro 'strong enough to support buildings'

re: #71 Van Helsing

They misspelled his name on the third line.
Didn't you proofread this?

Dang, we'll just have to destroy earth to get rid of the evidence. That hyperspace bypass is coming through any way, no great loss.

Charles Johnson! You're a renaissance man buddy! Forward thinking and rational!

No need to thank me!

Well, I'm doing it anyways. Thank You Charles, you are talented in many ways.

Sincerely,

teleskiguy

re: #30 Racer X

9:09
9/09

9

Don't mean to slander anyone who doesn't need slandering, but isn't Corsi a Troofer?

Ok, now, I just got an email saying that Obama holds dual-citizenship --US/Indonesia and that would disqualify him from holding the office of POTUS.

He was born in the US --isn't that enough???

argh

re: #72 drool

I believe all the footprint birth certifictes are novelty items. The real ones don't have them. I recall many years ago being told not to being in a footprint birth certificate as a legal document. I have a footprint one but the real one doesn't have it.

Check the date on it. Shouldn't it be done the way it is done everywhere but the USA...day then month then year...not month-day-year.

The first thing they did when we got to AF pilot training was to get us down to the hospital and take prints of our feet. "Why?", we asked.

Answer: "Because the most likely part of your body to survive a plane crash is what is inside your flight boots."

oh.

sheesh.

re: #80 coquimbojoe

Don't mean to slander anyone who doesn't need slandering, but isn't Corsi a Troofer?

BINGO

re: #80 coquimbojoe

Don't mean to slander anyone who doesn't need slandering, but isn't Corsi a Troofer?

And a frequent guest on the Alex Jones radio show.

re: #71 Van Helsing

They misspelled his name on the third line.
Didn't you proofread this?

And no foot print. WTF?

re: #84 Charles

And a frequent guest on the Alex Jones radio show.

Yep. The Alex Jones Show, also linked by Fox News and a guest of Judge Napolitano also on Fox News.

The circle is complete.

"Thanks to the bold and decisive action we've taken since January, I can stand here with confidence and say we have pulled this economy back from the brink".

Thank you for frittering away more of my kids' money in a few months than every president before you spent in their whole tenure. Well done. Good thing that economic collapse (no scare tactic there) thing didn't happen.

What are you going to spend my grandkids' money on?

re: #86 Gus 802

Yep. The Alex Jones Show, also linked by Fox News and a guest of Judge Napolitano also on Fox News.

The circle is complete.

The circle jerk is complete.

FIFY.

re: #86 Gus 802

Yep. The Alex Jones Show, also linked by Fox News and a guest of Judge Napolitano also on Fox News.

The circle is complete.

Which is Corsi? The master or apprentice?

/Mace Windu

re: #68 Charles

Really? I have generally like AT, but Pammy G over there? They usually seem to have writers with a few brain cells. People too easily embrace those they perceive to be 'fellow travelers' without checking looking at their baggage.

re: #85 sngnsgt

And no foot print. WTF?

It's there. You just need eyes that see the ultraviolet part of light. Yours only see the visible light part of the electromagnetic spectrum. You should have paid for the special glasses when you sent away for your tinfoil hat.

re: #53 Bagua

Damn...

American Thinker says, "I have no idea if this is a forgery or not. But if it's real..."

So "Thinker" actual means "Clueless." Will the inversions never stop?

American Thinker? I would settle for critical thinker- the entire concept seems dead to some. The actual evidence aside, I still come back to the Clintons, who any honest republican has to admit, would have exploited this issue were there a shred of truth to it.

re: #84 Charles

And a frequent guest on the Alex Jones radio show.

I saw that. Why anyone would want to wrestle with that pig is beyond me.

re: #86 Gus 802

Yep. The Alex Jones Show, also linked by Fox News and a guest of Judge Napolitano also on Fox News.

The circle is complete.

It's the Circle of Crazy!

Oh, and chem trails, and fluoridation, and the Bilderbergers...

And he lives in South Austin. Fortunately, it is *way* South Austin, but still...

re: #89 ArchangelMichael

Which is Corsi? The master or apprentice?

/Mace Windu

Master!

//

re: #86 Gus 802

Yep. The Alex Jones Show, also linked by Fox News and a guest of Judge Napolitano also on Fox News.

The circle is complete.

When Foxnews first interacted with Alex Jones, Fox was but the learner. Now Fox is the master (of bullshit).

/Stay on Target!

re: #92 Sharmuta

It would be welcome if those who claim to be "thinkers" actual gave some thought to what they write.

I cross posted my comment to the article in question to give the author something to "think" about.

re: #19 Charles

With all these pressing issues, I'll have to start prioritizing my time. Sorry, Regards Brian is going to have to wait until I've thoroughly proven that Barack Obama is a sekrit Moslem Manchurian candidate.

'Regards, Brian'

Brilliant!

Jerome Corsi is a certifiable loon. Sad to see American Thinker gone so far 'round the bend...It used to be a pretty good website, once.

Just How Good is the “New” Hubble?

New spectacles make a world universe of a difference!

re: #19 Charles

With all these pressing issues, I'll have to start prioritizing my time. Sorry, Regards Brian is going to have to wait until I've thoroughly proven that Barack Obama is a sekrit Moslem Manchurian candidate.

Officially petitioning for a sock puppet called 'Sekrit Moslem Manchurian Candidate'.

re: #89 ArchangelMichael

Which is Corsi? The master or apprentice?

/Mace Windu

"I have had it with these Motherfunkin' Sith and Nirthers in my Motherfuckin' Galaxy!"

/Mace Windu uncensored

re: #100 Racer X

Just How Good is the “New” Hubble?

New spectacles make a world universe of a difference!

I love your cavalcade of links. You remind me of some JPLers and STSci'ers I know.

I am a fan but we can find faults in every blog just getting kinda nasty out there

Damn.

American Thinker joins the ranks of titles from opposite land like:

9-11 Truth Movement
Employee Free Choice Act

re: #76 Racer X

Steel version of Velcro 'strong enough to support buildings'

Yes, but is it thermite and super-thermite proof?

re: #76 Racer X

Steel version of Velcro 'strong enough to support buildings'

There's a movie in here somewhere.

The Cat Piano

Short film by The People's Republic of Animation. Narrated by Nick Cave. Directed by Eddie White & Ari Gibson. Produced by Jessica Brentnall

re: #107 BigPapa

Yes, but is it thermite and super-thermite proof?

Thermites only eat wood...

re: #77 jcm

Dang, we'll just have to destroy earth to get rid of the evidence. That hyperspace bypass is coming through any way, no great loss.

Nooo!!! They were mostly harmless and quite amusing at times.
I feel, I feel, just terrible a bit gassy.
Wait. I'm over it. Feeling much better. Is earth still there?
Why?
Well then, carry on.

re: #76 Racer X

Steel version of Velcro 'strong enough to support buildings'

Jet fuel wont melt it!!!

/

re: #99 Ringo the Gringo

Jerome Corsi is a certifiable loon. Sad to see American Thinker gone so far 'round the bend...It used to be a pretty good website, once.

And yet, last year, during the campaign, many on this board...

Have they all been struck by the stinky stick? No? Do mea culpas need to be made by those who gleefully quoted him?

Hmmm.. I don't think it's gonna happen. Selective memory.

Any site that uses "thinker" in their name should be embarrassed to be relying on such a source as corsi.

re: #110 coquimbojoe

Thermites only eat wood...

They only eat hot wood.

re: #56 MightySkip

Whoops. I meant sarcastic towards Charles, insulting. I don't think I made that clear.

Randal Hoven has apologized for his post:

Posted by: Randall Hoven
Sep 09, 09:27 PM
Report Abuse
Reply
If this item is still up on the AT blog, I apologize. Corsi himself, on WND, announced this certificate as a forgery weeks ago.

I'm not touching this issue again until and unless something real happens (like it gets heard in court), if even then.

re: #115 BigPapa

They only eat hot wood.

Clever!

re: #103 Coracle

I love your cavalcade of links. You remind me of some JPLers and STSci'ers I know.

I'm just a little kid wandering around on the nets.

re: #117 Bagua

Randal Hoven has apologized for his post:

Another retraction of the evening.

Pandemic.

re: #104 tblot

I am a fan but we can find faults in every blog just getting kinda nasty out there

Yeah, just little teensy faults like using a white supremacist 9/11 Truther for a source.

Is that so wrong?

re: #119 Racer X

I'm just a little kid wandering around on the nets.

Go to bed, young man. Does your mother know where you are?

re: #115 BigPapa

They only eat hot wood.

Wait, what? What are we discussing here?

re: #117 Bagua

So- not only is critical thinking dead, fact checking is dead. He couldn't research this before he posted it? American Dunce.

re: #117 Bagua

Randal Hoven has apologized for his post:

Good. He got whacked with the clue bat. Hopefully he learns his lesson and never traffics in this sort of slime again.

re: #116 MightySkip

If you don't think too good then try not to think too much

- ted williams

Oh - and stay away from sarcasm.

re: #124 Sharmuta

So- not only is critical thinking dead, fact checking is dead. He couldn't research this before he posted it? American Dunce.

American Douchebag.

re: #125 Dark_Falcon

Good. He got whacked with the clue bat. Hopefully he learns his lesson and never traffics in this sort of slime again.

Hey, DF. You are exactly spot on.

re: #121 Charles

Yeah, just little teensy faults like using a white supremacist 9/11 Truther for a source.

Is that so wrong?

LGF first directive (suggestion?): Run from fascists wherever they may be found, lest they taint you.

re: #127 ArchangelMichael

American Douchebag.

Douchebaggery.

re: #130 Sharmuta

Douchebaggery.

Asshattery?

re: #127 ArchangelMichael

American Douchebag.

In London. Coming soon to a theater near you.

re: #125 Dark_Falcon

Good. He got whacked with the clue bat. Hopefully he learns his lesson and never traffics in this sort of slime again.

They're good for humor threads. Pinata threads, for want of a better name.

re: #121 Charles

no but most average person does even know what a white supremacist 9/11 Truther is and what they stand for never get in our media today

Groove to some Nightmares on Wax as you read. Turn it up if you're not going to wake anyone up.

re: #91 EmmmieG

I guess I should have included a /sarc tag which I thought was blatantly obvious.

re: #130 Sharmuta

Douchebaggery.

In that case it should be up on Blogmocracy in 3, 2, 1...

re: #132 Coracle

In London. Coming soon to a theater near you.

I like that: "An American Douchebag in London".

I think it's got legs! It's high concept!

re: #132 Coracle

In London. Coming soon to a theater near you.

American Douchebag in London

Starring:
Robert Spencer & Martin Mawyer

Actually, I'm Stumbling around on the nets.

re: #136 sngnsgt

I guess I should have included a /sarc tag which I thought was blatantly obvious.

Of course I didn't take you seriously. I hope nobody took me seriously. I don't think I have ever actually directed a serious comment about tinfoil hats at anyone here.

"Under my plan, individuals will be required to carry basic health insurance, just like most states require you to carry auto insurance"

Constitution? What's that?

re: #140 Racer X

Actually, I'm Stumbling around on the nets.

Ahhh. Kind of like Digging, but more prone to injuries.

re: #138 austin_blue

I like that: "An American Douchebag in London".

I think it's got legs! It's high concept!

Didn't the Throbbing Nirhters sing that? Orly Taitz played the organ and Alan Keyes sung backup vocals.

//

re: #142 cliffster

"Under my plan, individuals will be required to carry basic health insurance, just like most states require you to carry auto insurance"

Constitution? What's that?

So, auto insurance is unconstitutional?

re: #135 coquimbojoe

Groove to some Nightmares on Wax as you read. Turn it up if you're not going to wake anyone up.

Oh yeah? I'll raise you a Finer then raise again on a Rae and Christian.

re: #145 austin_blue

So, auto insurance is unconstitutional?

It's not a federal mandate either... next.

re: #135 coquimbojoe

Groove to some Nightmares on Wax as you read. Turn it up if you're not going to wake anyone up.

Nice!

I have this one in my favorites.

Nightmares On Wax - The Sweetest

/I have a good subwoofer connected to the puter.

Mother of Moses! Can the bloody GOP focus on something important...like coming up with REAL SOLUTIONS!! This 2 party puppet show is the biggest joke ever. I can't believe we have this large a constituency who believes this tripe. Oh wait...judging by elections and Republican fiscal policy of late...I CAN!!!

STOP THE CRAZY TRAIN OF STUPIDITY GOP! You really don't want to win elections do you!?

Hell, if Obama's name is on a bloody Hawaiian newspaper from what...1961(?), the 'secret communist machine' must really know quality DNA and political candidates from friggin birth to be able to 'groom' and 'prepare' him for his role. Wake the 'F' up people.

Let's focus on real issues...like... uh... Afghanistan, Healthcare Reform alternatives to what Obama is proposing that are actually concrete, viable, and positive! There are sooo many things that can actually be done without focusing on the 'backwoods' agenda's.

/rant off.

re: #140 Racer X

Actually, I'm Stumbling around on the nets.

Stumble...must stop...must stttop...

re: #134 tblot

no but most average person does even know what a white supremacist 9/11 Truther is and what they stand for never get in our media today

Do you realise the author has apologized for his post? re: #145 austin_blue

So, auto insurance is unconstitutional?

Actually... one is not forced to drive nor must one insure a garaged motor.

re: #145 austin_blue

So, auto insurance is unconstitutional?

They'll get it from me only by prying it from my cold dead hands, just like my steering wheel after I cause a 24 car pileup.

re: #145 austin_blue

So, auto insurance is unconstitutional?

Surely you're not serious? ("I am serious, and don't call me Shirley")

re: #141 EmmmieG

Of course I didn't take you seriously. I hope nobody took me seriously. I don't think I have ever actually directed a serious comment about tinfoil hats at anyone here.

I didn't think so, I thought I should have when I posted anyway. Besides, my tinfoil hat is at the cleaners./

re: #134 tblot

no but most average person does even know what a white supremacist 9/11 Truther is and what they stand for never get in our media today

You cannot be serious. You really think Americans don't know what a white supremacist and/or 9/11 Truther is?

re: #155 Sharmuta

You cannot be serious. You really think Americans don't know what a white supremacist and/or 9/11 Truther is?

I think a lot more American know what a white supremacist is than a troofer. Been around longer.

re: #152 Coracle

They'll get it from me only by prying it from my cold dead hands, just like my steering wheel after I cause a 24 car pileup.

Nope, very different issues.

re: #145 austin_blue

So, auto insurance is unconstitutional?

No, but the two are not the same thing. You are only required to carry auto insurance to cover damage to someone else's car. It is an obligation to prevent you from hurting someone and then leaving them holding the bag. Health insurance is to protect the preson who buys it and people ought to be able to determine whether or not they need that protection.

re: #153 cliffster

Surely you're not serious? ("I am serious, and don't call me Shirley")

Any gratuitous Airplane! quote is good for an upding.
I'm easy that way.

And auto insurance is part of the contract you enter into to use the public roadways.

re: #148 Racer X

Nice!

I have this one in my favorites.

Nightmares On Wax - The Sweetest

/I have a good subwoofer connected to the puter.

Very cool. Everything I have heard from him (them?) I have liked.

re: #146 BigPapa

Oh yeah? I'll raise you a Finer then raise again on a Rae and Christian.

Heh. Got both of those on my iPod. Nice!

re: #153 cliffster

Surely you're not serious? ("I am serious, and don't call me Shirley")

No, no, don't misunderstand. If the several States required health insurance like they do auto insurance, would you have a problem with that?

re: #145 austin_blue

So, auto insurance is unconstitutional?

For the privilege of driving, no.

re: #159 Van Helsing

Any gratuitous Airplane! quote is good for an upding.
I'm easy that way.

And auto insurance is part of the contract you enter into to use the public roadways.

IIRC, the Shirley reference originated in a Herman Wouk novel: Marjorie Morningstar.

re: #155 Sharmuta

yea I can go to my work and most of them would go huh

re: #156 EmmmieG

I'm pretty sure we know both. And after the Van Jones incident- there is zero excuse for anyone on the right to rely on truthers for sources (unless they use truthers to prove other people are truthers, I guess). It's just more truther hypocrisy on the part of some right-wing bloggers. Truthers are morons unless we can exploit them to serve us.

Check it:

Music Map

re: #72 drool

Check the date on it. Shouldn't it be done the way it is done everywhere but the USA...day then month then year...not month-day-year.

To their credit, some of the commenters at the American Thinker site noticed that the dates on the "Kenyan" certificate were done in the U.S. style. Likewise, the time of birth is given as 7:24 PM (instead of 19:24, for example), the baby's stats are in traditional English units rather than metric, the handwritten numeral 1's lack a huge descending serif that makes them look like a 7 or an upside-down V, and the handwritten numeral 7 has no cross-stroke -- all these are "Americanisms."

Even taken all together, these points don't 100% prove that the document isn't authentic -- MAYBE the prevailing Kenyan style just happens to match the prevailing American style on every one of these variables. But I doubt it.

re: #159 Van Helsing

And, as he specifically said, that is STATES requiring. He's talking about a FEDERAL level requirement. That's apples and oranges, even at face value. Not to mention the distinction is spelled out in the Constitution. But sure, austin_blue, auto insurance is unconstitutional, whatever that means.

re: #165 tblot

You work with small children? Because that's the only excuse. Otherwise, I think you're grossly misjudging Americans and talking out your ass.

re: #158 Dark_Falcon

No, but the two are not the same thing. You are only required to carry auto insurance to cover damage to someone else's car. It is an obligation to prevent you from hurting someone and then leaving them holding the bag. Health insurance is to protect the preson who buys it and people ought to be able to determine whether or not they need that protection.

Also, driving on a public way is a privilege that has many regulations and restrictions. The Insurance requirements apply only to those who choose to participate and are, essentially, a civil bond.

Mandatory health insurance alternatively, is a mandatory tax on all that are simply living.

One regulates a voluntary social activity, the other invades privacy and freedom.

re: #168 Throbert McGee

To their credit, some of the commenters at the American Thinker site noticed that the dates on the "Kenyan" certificate were done in the U.S. style. Likewise, the time of birth is given as 7:24 PM (instead of 19:24, for example), the baby's stats are in traditional English units rather than metric, the handwritten numeral 1's lack a huge descending serif that makes them look like a 7 or an upside-down V, and the handwritten numeral 7 has no cross-stroke -- all these are "Americanisms."

Even taken all together, these points don't 100% prove that the document isn't authentic -- MAYBE the prevailing Kenyan style just happens to match the prevailing American style on every one of these variables. But I doubt it.

That took you, what, 5 minutes? These guys are amazing.

re: #158 Dark_Falcon

No, but the two are not the same thing. You are only required to carry auto insurance to cover damage to someone else's car. It is an obligation to prevent you from hurting someone and then leaving them holding the bag. Health insurance is to protect the preson who buys it and people ought to be able to determine whether or not they need that protection.

Ah, but if you do not have health insurance and an uninsured drunk runs a red light and T-bones you, all of the people in the community have to pick up your massive costs. What's the difference? I pay into a regional health insurance pool with my property taxes every year!

Too late to be up. Good night, folks.

re: #162 austin_blue

No, no, don't misunderstand. If the several States required health insurance like they do auto insurance, would you have a problem with that?

Perhaps if it was only major medical --or for children. Once you are 18, you would be responsible for yourself. I don't know. I'd feel better it were "really" tried-out on the state level --50 experiments from which to learn.

The whole thing seems impossible to me. How do you set limits with people's lives with the people's money?

To me limits would be set by the individuals for their own lives, but since very few would be objective in setting their own limits. . . .

re: #168 Throbert McGee

To their credit, some of the commenters at the American Thinker site noticed that the dates on the "Kenyan" certificate were done in the U.S. style. Likewise, the time of birth is given as 7:24 PM (instead of 19:24, for example), the baby's stats are in traditional English units rather than metric, the handwritten numeral 1's lack a huge descending serif that makes them look like a 7 or an upside-down V, and the handwritten numeral 7 has no cross-stroke -- all these are "Americanisms."

Even taken all together, these points don't 100% prove that the document isn't authentic -- MAYBE the prevailing Kenyan style just happens to match the prevailing American style on every one of these variables. But I doubt it.

What's funny is a person working at a site promoting itself for thinking couldn't think of those.

Bedtime, Lizards. See ya's later.

re: #170 Sharmuta

gee sorry for speaking do you insult everyone who diagree with you

re: #177 mikalm

'Nite mikalm...

re: #171 Bagua

Also, driving on a public way is a privilege that has many regulations and restrictions. The Insurance requirements apply only to those who choose to participate and are, essentially, a civil bond.

Mandatory health insurance alternatively, is a mandatory tax on all that are simply living.

One regulates a voluntary social activity, the other invades privacy and freedom.

Quite Concur.

re: #173 austin_blue

Ah, but if you do not have health insurance and an uninsured drunk runs a red light and T-bones you, all of the people in the community have to pick up your massive costs. What's the difference? I pay into a regional health insurance pool with my property taxes every year!

That is an argument for government doing less, not more. If ABC the government decided to do requires it to pick up the tab for XYZ that it didn't expect, then it should reconsider doing ABC. It should not consider additionally picking up XYZ. That is backward thinking.

re: #44 austin_blue

Was anyone surprised that he put tort reform on the table?

Yes. Smart move. We'll have to see what actually makes it onto the table, but by throwing it into the speech, he now gets credit for it, whether it ever goes or not, never mind how much of it goes.

re: #168 Throbert McGee

WND itself had a picture of a real Kenyan BC from 1961 and it looked nothing like this one so they basically debunked their own bullshit right from the get go.

A different time, a different mentality:

How the British Eliminated the Intifada of 1936-1939

OT: Watching the Cesar Millan episode of South Park where he trains Cartman. Freaking hilarious...

re: #178 tblot

gee sorry for speaking do you insult everyone who diagree with you

She doesn't do that. What she does do is give rubbish arguments the backhand.

re: #175 ggt

Perhaps if it was only major medical --or for children. Once you are 18, you would be responsible for yourself. I don't know. I'd feel better it were "really" tried-out on the state level --50 experiments from which to learn.

The whole thing seems impossible to me. How do you set limits with people's lives with the people's money?

To me limits would be set by the individuals for their own lives, but since very few would be objective in setting their own limits. . . .

See my 173. In any case, we are *all* paying for the uninsured one way or another. And it is massively more expensive when they go the ER vs. a clinic.

re: #181 cliffster

That is an argument for government doing less, not more. If ABC the government decided to do requires it to pick up the tab for XYZ that it didn't expect, then it should reconsider doing ABC. It should not consider additionally picking up XYZ. That is backward thinking.

Agreed. If you can't pay the costs, then your wages should be garnished until they are paid.

re: #115 BigPapa

Nope. Won't do it. Too easy.

More Stumbleness:

The Perfect Man, The Perfect Woman

I need my drugs

re: #187 austin_blue

See my 173. In any case, we are *all* paying for the uninsured one way or another. And it is massively more expensive when they go the ER vs. a clinic.

Many up-dings for that. And may I point out that if the uninsured foolishly give their real name on an Emergency Room visit, they will find themselves with an outrageously inflated bill on account of the illegals paying nothing.

This is the elephant in the room on this whole health care debate.

re: #181 cliffster

That is an argument for government doing less, not more. If ABC the government decided to do requires it to pick up the tab for XYZ that it didn't expect, then it should reconsider doing ABC. It should not consider additionally picking up XYZ. That is backward thinking.

What? That's gibberish. Are you channeling TFK? Please, nouns and verbs are helpful! People showing up for medical care *will* be treated. true fact. How they will be paid for is public policy. The system, as it exists, sucks.

re: #155 Sharmuta

You cannot be serious. You really think Americans don't know what a white supremacist and/or 9/11 Truther is?

Well I'd say everyone knows what a white supremacists is but I would say the majority of people I know, work with and talk with daily have no clue what a 9/11 Truther means. Seriously. My political friends all know but the rest... clueless.

They don't care about politics and think the height of civilization is ... shit I was gonna say Dancing with the Stars but I'll get flamed for that because off the Fox Not Broadcasting Obama's Speech thing... ok they think the height of civilization is Jon and Kate Plus 8 (most talked about subject at work, I shit you not).

It's depressing.

re: #182 haakondahl

Now, finally, many in this chamber -- particularly on the Republican side of the aisle -- have long insisted that reforming our medical malpractice laws can help bring down the cost of health care. (Applause.) Now -- there you go. There you go. Now, I don't believe malpractice reform is a silver bullet, but I've talked to enough doctors to know that defensive medicine may be contributing to unnecessary costs

That's an endorsement? Really?

Bookmark alert

Gong

re: #178 tblot

gee sorry for speaking do you insult everyone who diagree with you

No- I just don't believe you. I would say the vast majority of Americans either know or could figure out from the name what a "white supremacist" is.

re: #186 Dark_Falcon

re: #194 Locker

thank you

Teenagers scare,
The living shit outta me

re: #197 Sharmuta

yea but truther and all that crap I bet you go ask all your friends and get back to me

George Bush destroyed our freedoms!

OK, name one.

I give you the Obama plan. You will acquiesce or you will be punished with the full force of government.

Your turn, my leftist amigos.

I don't know what the answer is. I DO know that "health care costs" are ridiculous. Several years ago, my appendix ruptured. Emergency trip to the ER. Morphine is good stuff, if you ever wondered. Due to an address mix up, I saw the "real" bills and what my insurance paid. "Real" bills were over $40,000. My insurance paid $13,000 IIRC. I could conceivable have paid the $13,000 out of pocket, if I'd HAD to. $40,0000, no way.
That's my story & I'm sticking to it!

re: #199 Racer X

Teenagers scare,
The living shit outta me

[Video]

Are you watching the Chris Rock standup too??

re: #193 austin_blue

What? That's gibberish. Are you channeling TFK? Please, nouns and verbs are helpful! People showing up for medical care *will* be treated. true fact. How they will be paid for is public policy. The system, as it exists, sucks.

No, it's not gibberish. You're smart enough to know what I'm saying.

Lots of right wing blogs calling Rep. Joe Wilson a "hero" tonight, for his outburst during Obama's speech.

re: #164 ggt

IIRC, the Shirley reference originated in a Herman Wouk novel: Marjorie Morningstar.

Oh. I didn't read that one. I did read 'The Winds of War' and the 'Caine Mutiny'.
I'm not taking the upding back.
And I still like etymology.

re: #202 Floral Giraffe

I don't know what the answer is. I DO know that "health care costs" are ridiculous. Several years ago, my appendix ruptured. Emergency trip to the ER. Morphine is good stuff, if you ever wondered. Due to an address mix up, I saw the "real" bills and what my insurance paid. "Real" bills were over $40,000. My insurance paid $13,000 IIRC. I could conceivable have paid the $13,000 out of pocket, if I'd HAD to. $40,0000, no way.
That's my story & I'm sticking to it!

Can't pay? Ok, come on down to the hospital. Dr. Jones will have to put your appendix back in.

re: #200 tblot

yea but truther and all that crap I bet you go ask all your friends and get back to me

Are you serious?

re: #200 tblot

yea but truther and all that crap I bet you go ask all your friends and get back to me

My friends know what both terms mean, but then- my friends have brains.

re: #205 Charles

Lots of right wing blogs calling Rep. Joe Wilson a "hero" tonight, for his outburst during Obama's speech.

I missed that (got into the broadcast late). What did he yell?

re: #207 Desert Dog

But, it blew off, when it ruptured?

re: #183 ArchangelMichael

WND itself had a picture of a real Kenyan BC from 1961 and it looked nothing like this one so they basically debunked their own bullshit right from the get go.

Yeah, I saw that a few minutes ago. Apart from looking nothing at all like the "birth certificate" from American Thinker, the real specimen confirmed that Kenyans tend to use the Day, Month, Year format for writing dates.

re: #203 Locker

Are you watching the Chris Rock standup too??

Wazzat?

re: #210 austin_blue

I missed that (got into the broadcast late). What did he yell?

"Liar!"

Just disgusting.

re: #210 austin_blue

I missed that (got into the broadcast late). What did he yell?

Yelled out loud to Obama: "YOU LIE"...it was obscene

re: #205 Charles

What a bunch of morons.

Heroes rescue people from burning buildings, cranks heckle speakers.

re: #209 Sharmuta

what does that mean I have a life

re: #205 Charles

Lots of right wing blogs calling Rep. Joe Wilson a "hero" tonight, for his outburst during Obama's speech.

I seriously hate how much left air is going to be taken up by this... even though it's a completely pointless waste of energy. Let's take one second to be real about this... the guy got emotional and made a mistake. He apologized. It happens. Who gives a fuck? What person ever living on the face of the earth lived without one mistake?

Mistakes aren't even bad, they are teaching tools. Please can we just let it go, respect the guy for apologizing and just move on. PLEASE!

re: #211 Floral Giraffe

But, it blew off, when it ruptured?

Ok, we'll have to get a loaner then ;-)

re: #210 austin_blue

I missed that (got into the broadcast late). What did he yell?

Link to it on this therad AB. Peace brother.

re: #216 Slumbering Behemoth

Heroes rescue people from burning buildings, cranks heckle speakers.

Heros take back the cockpit, not cock off.

re: #205 Charles

Lots of right wing blogs calling Rep. Joe Wilson a "hero" tonight, for his outburst during Obama's speech.

Amazing yet expected. A hero for an outburst. The bill explicitly states that it does not include funding for illegal aliens.

The illegal immigration issue if a separate issue and is already covered under existing laws. That's always been a matter of enforcement and varies within state and local jurisdictions.

re: #217 tblot

what does that mean I have a life

No, clearly she is indicating that your friends are not intelligent.

re: #214 Bagua

"Liar!"

Just disgusting.

Well! Isn't that special! R from SC, yes? How's his Governor doing?

re: #213 Racer X

Wazzat?

laugh he was just talking about how white teenages scare the shit out of him. He said if he sees a white male under 21 he heads for the hills... JUST as you made your post. It was comically coincidental.

re: #222 Gus 802

Amazing yet expected. A hero for an outburst. The bill explicitly states that it does not include funding for illegal aliens.

The illegal immigration issue if a separate issue and is already covered under existing laws. That's always been a matter of enforcement and varies within state and local jurisdictions.

No, the illegal immigration issue is very much a part of this debate. There is no question that it is fueling health care costs.

re: #224 austin_blue

Well! Isn't that special! R from SC, yes? How's his Governor doing?

Last I read 60 Republican member of the SC house were calling for him to resign. Meanwhile, Sanford is blaming his political opponent for a witch hunt.

re: #224 austin_blue

Well! Isn't that special! R from SC, yes? How's his Governor doing?

Maybe that was a delayed reaction? The thought originated back during one of Sanford's speeches, and just now made its way out of his mouth.

re: #205 Charles

Lots of right wing blogs calling Rep. Joe Wilson a "hero" tonight, for his outburst during Obama's speech.

Lots of right right wing blogamaroons out there evidently.

Age old dilemma, you are standing up to you chin in a pool of diarrhea and someone throws a bucket of snot at you - do you duck?

I love it when I hear politician spew this kind of crap. "Orrin Hatch and his friend Ted Kennedy worked together to provide health insurance for children." Does that mean that they pooled their money and gave it to children so they could have health insurance? No, it means they got in a room and together decided to spend Other People's Money for children to have health insurance. That's not heroism, nor is it philanthropic.

Follow up post on AT:

Posted by: Bagua
Sep 09, 09:42 PM
Report Abuse
Reply
Er, Randall, need I point out the "Corsi himself" is not reputable, nor is WND.

re: #223 Bagua

I guess I have a bunch of dumb uniform friends I handle that Good night good lgf friends good discussions

re: #226 Bagua

No, the illegal immigration issue is very much a part of this debate. There is no question that it is fueling health care costs.

The bill says no funding for illegal alien.

If we can expand this bill to include illegal immigration then we can also add bicycle safety, aircraft accidents, smoking, alcoholism, and a plethora of other issues that impact health care costs as well. No?

re: #227 Gus 802

Last I read 60 Republican member of the SC house were calling for him to resign. Meanwhile, Sanford is blaming his political opponent for a witch hunt.

What kind of hunt is it if the goat is staked in the middle of the field?

re: #230 cliffster

I love it when I hear politician spew this kind of crap. "Orrin Hatch and his friend Ted Kennedy worked together to provide health insurance for children." Does that mean that they pooled their money and gave it to children so they could have health insurance? No, it means they got in a room and together decided to spend Other People's Money for children to have health insurance. That's not heroism, nor is it philanthropic.

I agree. It's leadership.

re: #228 EmmmieG

Maybe that was a delayed reaction? The thought originated back during one of Sanford's speeches, and just now made its way out of his mouth.

Hah!

re: #232 tblot

I guess I have a bunch of dumb uniform friends I handle that Good night good lgf friends good discussions

Or perhaps you misjudge what they know? Good night.

re: #234 austin_blue

What kind of hunt is it if the goat is staked in the middle of the field?

Right. Sanford pulled the religion card a couple of weeks ago. It was here at LGF come to think of it.

re: #235 Locker

I agree. It's leadership.

So if I LEAD a group of dudes into your house, steal a bunch of your shit, sell it at a pawn shop, and then use that money to get some health insurance for people.. that's also Leadership?

re: #237 Bagua

ahhh

re: #239 cliffster

So if I LEAD a group of dudes into your house, steal a bunch of your shit, sell it at a pawn shop, and then use that money to get some health insurance for people.. that's also Leadership?

Are you pissed off?

re: #232 tblot

Don't let the doorknob hit you where the dog should have bit you.

re: #232 tblot

I guess I have a bunch of dumb uniform friends.

Dumb, uniform friends?

Are these them?

Daddy gets the big piece of chicken! - Chris Rock

re: #237 Bagua

Or perhaps you misjudge what they know? Good night.

Which is what I said earlier. Gross misjudgment.

re: #233 Gus 802

The bill says no funding for illegal alien.

If we can expand this bill to include illegal immigration then we can also add bicycle safety, aircraft accidents, smoking, alcoholism, and a plethora of other issues that impact health care costs as well. No?

Yes, the Bill "says no funding for illegal alien." But in actual practice, the illegals flood the emergency rooms, often for non-emergency health care, they are not turned away. The costs are not recoverable from the illegals, thus, the costs are passed on to everyone who actually pays, insured or otherwise. The bill will pay for the illegals indirectly, it is one of the main factors inflating the cost of health care.

re: #206 Van Helsing

Oh. I didn't read that one. I did read 'The Winds of War' and the 'Caine Mutiny'.
I'm not taking the upding back.
And I still like etymology.

I like Herman Wouk's writing -- Marjorie Morningstar was kinda unusual for him --but a very good read (wiki link explains shirley). It was probably made into a movie--yes Natalie Wood and Gene Kelly. Actually, the Slate article at he bottom is a better read than the Wiki

re: #230 cliffster

I love it when I hear politician spew this kind of crap. "Orrin Hatch and his friend Ted Kennedy worked together to provide health insurance for children." Does that mean that they pooled their money and gave it to children so they could have health insurance? No, it means they got in a room and together decided to spend Other People's Money for children to have health insurance. That's not heroism, nor is it philanthropic.

Dude, really, read the Preamble to the Constitution and understand that the entire document is based on a social contract between the government and the governed. That little bit in there about "promoting the common good" is important. In fact, it is fundamental. That's why it's in the freaking Preamble.

re: #235 Locker

I agree. It's leadership.

No. Not really.
They are performing acts of kindness and charity by taking money from other people at the point of a gun.
It's government sanctioned thievery. I resent it, because I give my own money to worthy causes. Freely.

re: #246 Bagua

Yes, the Bill "says no funding for illegal alien." But in actual practice, the illegals flood the emergency rooms, often for non-emergency health care, they are not turned away. The costs are not recoverable from the illegals, thus, the costs are passed on to everyone who actually pays, insured or otherwise. The bill will pay for the illegals indirectly, it is one of the main factors inflating the cost of health care.

I'm not saying the bill should be passed as written. I just don't think that adding immigration reform to health care legislation makes any sense. It should be focused.

re: #195 cliffster

Now, finally, many in this chamber -- particularly on the Republican side of the aisle -- have long insisted that reforming our medical malpractice laws can help bring down the cost of health care. (Applause.) Now -- there you go. There you go. Now, I don't believe malpractice reform is a silver bullet, but I've talked to enough doctors to know that defensive medicine may be contributing to unnecessary costs

That's an endorsement? Really?

But... but Obama said he'd already told the HHS Secretary to snap to it and start moving forward proactively in the direction of implementing a Bush-administration proposal to test tort reform at the state level!

If that's not endorsement enough for you, whaddaya want -- a line of tap-dancing, high-kicking chorus girls singing "Hip-hip-hurrah for tort reform!"?

re: #249 Van Helsing

No. Not really.
They are performing acts of kindness and charity by taking money from other people at the point of a gun.
It's government sanctioned thievery. I resent it, because I give my own money to worthy causes. Freely.

It's democracy. YOU don't get to decide what is and is not an appropriate use of tax money... WE do. You don't have to like it but it isn't thievery any more than it's thievery from me when we spend money on faith based initiatives which I would NEVER EVER support on my own.

DE
MO
CRA
CY

re: #249 Van Helsing

No. Not really.
They are performing acts of kindness and charity by taking money from other people at the point of a gun.
It's government sanctioned thievery. I resent it, because I give my own money to worthy causes. Freely.

Quite Concur.

re: #250 Gus 802

I'm not saying the bill should be passed as written. I just don't think that adding immigration reform to health care legislation makes any sense. It should be focused.

On that I agree, we should first focus on eliminating the widespread fraud that is being inflicted on our countries hospitals by criminals. The savings would be vast, and both the insured and un-insured would receive their care at a lower cost.

re: #249 Van Helsing

No. Not really.
They are performing acts of kindness and charity by taking money from other people at the point of a gun.
It's government sanctioned thievery. I resent it, because I give my own money to worthy causes. Freely.

I wish I had more than one upding for you!

re: #252 Locker

It's democracy. YOU don't get to decide what is and is not an appropriate use of tax money... WE do. You don't have to like it but it isn't thievery any more than it's thievery from me when we spend money on faith based initiatives which I would NEVER EVER support on my own.

DE
MO
CRA
CY

So what happens if a democracy gets together and votes that, say, Irish people are not allowed to use public restrooms? And, that they have to pay more taxes? If you are Irish, you must pay an additional 10% taxes. Majority rules. What's to argue with?

re: #246 Bagua

Yes, the Bill "says no funding for illegal alien." But in actual practice, the illegals flood the emergency rooms, often for non-emergency health care, they are not turned away. The costs are not recoverable from the illegals, thus, the costs are passed on to everyone who actually pays, insured or otherwise. The bill will pay for the illegals indirectly, it is one of the main factors inflating the cost of health care.

Yes, bit illegals pay sales taxes, SS tax under false names (which goes into the trust fund), Medicaire taxes (which they will never see), and income taxes under their fake SSNs. In Texas, most of illegals work eight months out of the year and winter in Mexico. It is probably a push as to cost/benefit in this state or maybe a small advantage. If it wasn't, you can bet the radical Rs here would be doing a shitpot more than they are. Business benefits.

re: #246 Bagua

Yes, the Bill "says no funding for illegal alien." But in actual practice, the illegals flood the emergency rooms, often for non-emergency health care, they are not turned away. The costs are not recoverable from the illegals, thus, the costs are passed on to everyone who actually pays, insured or otherwise. The bill will pay for the illegals indirectly, it is one of the main factors inflating the cost of health care.

...And that's what we have now. A patient shows up to an emergency room with a serious life threatening injury. Should we check his citizenship before before we give him treatment. Passport and Nirth Certifikit? Suppose he's illegal. Throw him in the street to die? Bullet to the cranium? There's a factor of basic human decency involved here.

re: #256 cliffster

So what happens if a democracy gets together and votes that, say, Irish people are not allowed to use public restrooms? And, that they have to pay more taxes? If you are Irish, you must pay an additional 10% taxes. Majority rules. What's to argue with?

Which is why we have a constitution. So that shit does not happen. Any "proper use of tax money" has to fit in there. I know this concept is totally alien to lefties though.