Eight Years On

Opinion • Views: 2,928

It’s the eighth year after the Islamic terrorist attacks that ripped a hole in downtown Manhattan and murdered almost 3,000 people.

Today, I’m remembering the children who were killed that day, who started their morning excited about taking a plane flight, and ended up as pawns for one of the most cowardly atrocities ever conceived by religious fanatics.

And I’m remembering the firefighters who rushed into those buildings to save as many people as they could, and gave their lives amid the collapsing steel and the debris from countless offices.

May they rest in peace. Never forget.

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656 comments
1 Ojoe  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:25:50am

It is far from over.

2 lurking faith  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:27:13am

Never forget.

3 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:29:07am

I do think I have ever been as sad and as mad as that day...I will never forget the feeling I had that morning...ever.

4 SurferDoc  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:29:58am

I lost a friend in the Pentagon.


I felt cold rage that day. It has not gone away, it has turned into something darker, a ferocious determination that they will not win here. Not while I breathe.

5 laZardo  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:30:13am

In memory of those who died, and those who fought back.

/made back in '07 hence the title math error.

6 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:30:50am

reposted from the overnight thread:

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. As many of you know, I was in NYC on 9/11 and worked just about a mile north of Ground Zero. I now work across the street, and Ground Zero has become quite a tourist destination - a place where people see the visceral effects of terrorism and mass murder on an unimaginable scale.

Since 9/11, I've followed the efforts to first recover the victims, then the efforts to figure out what to do with the site, and now with the reconstruction efforts. It has gone far slower than it should have - all the infighting and incompetence from politicians who wanted soundbites instead of delivering leadership - that includes NY and NJ governors, the Port Authority, Mayor Bloomberg, local politicians and even the US Senators from New York.

While the effort was made initially to make sure that whatever funds were needed to rebuild, the current construction efforts are hobbled because of the credit market meltdown, which threatens to stall reconstruction of 3 of the office towers planned at the site.

Still, there has been significant progress since last year. Much of the steel for the 9/11 memorial and museum has been installed, and the Freedom Tower now rises above Ground Zero in the NW corner of the site. 4WTC is slowly rising from the SE corner. There is activity all over the site, but it may be a decade or more before the whole site is built out. And I will do my best to catalog and detail those efforts along the way. More here (including photos).

7 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:32:08am

We spent a lot of money we didn't have for new boots & equipment right after terror attack. Our church delivered that and much more to the men & women in NY who were cleaning up the debris at Ground Zero.

8 BlueCanuck  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:32:16am
They shall not grow old,
as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them,
nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun
and in the morning
We will remember them.
Laurence Binyon

Always read here on November 11th after the playing of Taps. It should be read, and always read. Not never forget, Lest we forget.

9 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:32:50am

I'd like to add that, in addition to remembering all those mentioned above, I'll be remembering the children who lost parents on that day.

10 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:33:14am

re: #1 Ojoe

It is far from over.

These colors don't run.


Youtube Video
11 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:33:51am

Speaking of the children, I've posted this before, but for young kids who weren't even born when this happened and therefore it could become as removed for them as Pearl Harbor, there is a great book resource. The Little Chapel that Stood.

St. Paul's Chapel, dwarfed by the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center right across the street, stood strong after the "giants around it had come to a fall" in 9-11. Not a pane of glass had been broken.

On 9-11 St.Pauls became a service dept immediately. Firemen hung their shoes on the old iron fence as they "pulled on their boots and raced to the Towers, climbing melting steel to flaming showers. Oh, what gallant men did we lose who never came back to get their shoes."

This historic chapel was built in 1766. When George Washington was inaugurated the first president in New York City, he walked down Broadway to St. Paul's to offer his prayers for the new nation. Alexander Hamilton lies buried in the churchyard nearby.

12 laZardo  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:33:56am

I'd also like to give special thanks to Screw Loose Change, still dedicated as ever to fighting the demented, crazed, and downright despicable twoofer movement.

13 Cato  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:35:00am

I will never forget.

My office had a front seat view of the towers falling.

The man who, just a few months before was the head of NY and NJ Port Authority, then owners and managers of the towers, had an office next to me. Governor Pataki called him that day and pressed him back into service since his successor died in the attack. Before we knew how many perished he told me he thought there were 30,000. Had the attacks occurred an hour or two later, he might have been right.

14 rwmofo  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:35:18am

I'll never forget.

15 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:35:51am

re: #4 SurferDoc

I lost a friend in the Pentagon.

I also knew one of the people who was killed at the Pentagon eight years ago today. I used to work there (years before 9/11) and still have to go back there from time to time. Some of my family and friends were freaking out trying to get through to me and find out if I'd been there or not. (Not.)

I felt cold rage that day. It has not gone away, it has turned into something darker, a ferocious determination that they will not win here. Not while I breathe.

Upding.

16 unrealizedviewpoint  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:36:39am

Not me, not us, we'll never forget. And when they do, we'll remind.

17 Cato  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:38:44am

My wife and I met at the Citibank building that day to give blood. She has a rare blood type that she thought might be needed. But almost no blood was needed -- it was a binary equation that day -- live or die.

18 mattm  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:39:27am

I will not forget. I will not forget the people jumping to their death to avoid being burned alive. I will not forget the Passengers on United 93 who tried to take back their aircraft. I will not forget.

Very moving memorial:

[Link: www.fdnylodd.com...]

19 Athens Runaway  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:39:35am

I remember where I was. I mean, I can point out the exact seat I was sitting in when the principal came on the loudspeaker and gave us all the news. 1st Period American History class.

The rest of the day was equal parts everyone speculating what the next shoe to drop was going to be, and just in total numb shock.

It was kind of funny. The sky that morning as I got on the bus was crystal clear. I remember thinking that it was going to be a great day, just because of how beautiful it was outside that morning.

20 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:39:47am

Let's Roll.

Youtube Video
21 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:40:28am

About suffering they were never wrong,
The Old Masters: how well they understood
Its human position; how it takes place
While someone else is eating or opening a window or just walking dully
along;
How, when the aged are reverently, passionately waiting
For the miraculous birth, there always must be
Children who did not specially want it to happen, skating
On a pond at the edge of the wood:
They never forgot
That even the dreadful martyrdom must run its course
Anyhow in a corner, some untidy spot
Where the dogs go on with their doggy life and the torturer's horse
Scratches its innocent behind on a tree.
In Breughel's Icarus, for instance: how everything turns away
Quite leisurely from the disaster; the plowman may
Have heard the splash, the forsaken cry,
But for him it was not an important failure; the sun shone
As it had to on the white legs disappearing into the green
Water; and the expensive delicate ship that must have seen
Something amazing, a boy falling out of the sky,
Had somewhere to get to and sailed calmly on.

Auden, Musee des Beaux Arts

22 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:41:25am

The people I knew were lucky - my college roommate works at home mostly, but at the time was going in to the towers twice a week. 9/11 was a day he was home.
And my boss's daughter worked across the street (at the architectural firm which designed the WTC's electrical system), and had already gone through the PATH station before anything happened.

I hope Obama realizes before it's too late that his policies are demoralizing those who are working to prevent another attack like this, and are making it much harder to prevent another attack.

23 Spider Mensch  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:43:01am

Alot of good people murdered that day...lest we never forget them or what happened this day 8 years ago!

24 laZardo  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:43:15am

I was 14 at the time. My mother had woken me up close to the middle of the night (about 9-10pm), by that time the 1st tower had fallen. I was woken up again after the 2nd one fell.

I couldn't even grasp the magnitude of what happened for the next few days. Truly this was the defining event of the growing generation.

25 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:44:05am

I speak peace when peace is spoken, But I speak war when your hate is provoking, The season is open 24-7-365,
Man up yo time to ride, No need to hide behind slogans of deceit,
Claiming that you're a religion of peace, We just don't believe you,
We can clearly see through,
The madness that you're feeding your people,
Jihad the cry of your unholy war,
Using the willing, the weak and poor, From birth drowning in propaganda, rhetoric and slander, All we can say is damn ya

My forefathers fought and died for this here
I'm stronger than your war of fear
Are we clear?
If you step in my hood
It's understood
It's open season

I don't need a faith that's blind, Where death and hate bring me peace of mind, With views that are stuck deep in the seventh century, So much sand in your eyes to blind to see, The venom that you leaders preach, Is the path to your own destruction, Your own demise, You might say that I don't understand but your disgust for me is what I realize, Surprise!
Your homicidal ways has got the whole world watching, Whole world scoping, So if you bring it to my home base, Best believe it, The season's open

I see you, Hell yeah I see you, Motherfucker naw, I don't wanna be you, If you come to my place, I'll drop more than just some bass, Yo you'll get a taste of a, Sick motherfucker from the Dirty, I ain't worrying not a fucking bit, I'm telescoping like Hubble, Yo you in trouble, Yo on the double, I'm wild with mine, Bring that style with mine, Fuck with my family I'll end your life, Just the way it is, Just the way it be, Do you understand? No matter if you're woman or man, or child, My profile is crazy, That shit you do doesn't amaze me, I'm ready to blaze thee

I don't give a damn what god you claim, I've seen the innocent that you've slain, On my streets you're just fair game, Like a pig walk to your slaughter, The heat here is so much hotter, And my views won't teeter totter or fluctuate, Step to me you just met your fate, And I'll annihilate, With the skill of a Shogun assassin, Slicing and dicing precise with a passion, In any shape form or fashion, Bring it to my home, Welcome to the danger zone, Cause your attitude's the reason, The triggers keep squeezing, The hunt is on and it's open season

It's Open Season

26 The Curmudgeon  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:45:30am

We should also remember the people in the Middle East who were dancing in the streets when they got the news.

27 yochanan  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:45:41am

a couple of months ago I learned that my wife's boss here in chicago had a niece who was one of the murdered on 9-11 and that her son-in-law lived only a block from the WTC. Her mother said the smell was the same smell she remembered from when she was in Dachou.

I tried to watch the slide show but I always loose it when I see the photo's of the people jumping to there deaths.

off topic to a degree
yesterday my son in Israel said the bus he works on as a guard had large rock tossed throw the front window.

28 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:46:49am

re: #26 The Curmudgeon

We should also remember the people in the Middle East who were dancing in the streets when they got the news.

In Patterson fucking New Jersey!

29 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:47:12am

re: #26 The Curmudgeon

We should also remember the people in the Middle East who were dancing in the streets when they got the news.

See No. 25.

30 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:47:35am

re: #26 The Curmudgeon

We should also remember the people in the Middle East who were dancing in the streets when they got the news.

Yup. Bastards.

Youtube Video
31 sadhu  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:48:31am

Tilly's Story
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

32 MysticSmoke (from finger tips)  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:49:19am

Never Forget.
(Which seems to be a necessary message, sadly)

33 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:49:20am

re: #30 NJDhockeyfan

Yup. Bastards.


FUCKS.

34 shimoda  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:49:45am

If this article is even remotely correct then it can be a small comfort on this sad anniversary

35 laZardo  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:50:06am

re: #33 TheMatrix31

[deleted, will step away from keyboard for a few minutes]

36 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:50:20am

For the children murdered on September 11, 2001, including Christine Hanson, age two.

Never forget.

37 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:50:28am

I'm a country bumpkin; always have been. Eight years ago I was in my final year at a typical Midwest high school. The day dawned bright and clear, not a single cloud in the sky, and when I left for school there were no contrails because Chicago doesn't fly any planes over that area that early in the morning. Little did I know there weren't going to be ANY contrails on that fateful morning.

My first morning class ran from 7:30 to 8:20 AM Central Standard Time. After exiting my first hour class, I typically stopped at my locker to gather books for the next few classes, as it was on the way from that class and right across the hall from my second hour class. The hallways were buzzing about "World Trade Center", but I wrote that off as a documentary that my second hour teacher must've been watching. As I got my things together and prepared to close the locker door, he came out of his classroom and told the teacher in the next classroom over, "Did you see that? Another one just hit!" Immediately I felt a sinking feeling in my stomach. Slamming my locker closed, I dashed across the hallway and into the classroom to see a tremendous fireball and roiling, ugly black smoke billowing from the gaping wound in the tower. It took more than a few seconds to sink in. All that day, the televisions in every classroom were tuned to the news networks. We listened live to a correspondent at the Pentagon who was on-air when the plane struck the building. (He was in a different wing, but he felt the impact.) We watched the towers fall, together. We didn't know what it meant, but we knew it was BAD.

When I got home, my father immediately grabbed my arm and shoveled me out the door. We were going to the gas station, he said. Unfortunately, it was too little too late; the lines were already 2 miles long by the time we got there. So I went to work as usual. No one was there, which wasn't that unusual for a rundown small-time Midwest hardware store, but it just felt so empty. I watched the President's address live on the Radio Shack display we had up front by the registers. We had a stream of people come in that evening, asking for American flags. Sorry, we don't carry those, I wish we could help.

Heroic stories and rumors abounded, but one thing was clear: American exceptionalism was displayed for all to see when the images of those brave firefighters charging UP the burning, sagging towers came out. May we never forget how great our freedom makes us. Stand and fight!

38 kulhwch  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:50:49am

Word.

    [ ... as in never words enough. Peace to the fallen.]

39 MKELLY  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:51:08am

Thank you for your rememberance of the day and especially for remembering the innocent children.

I willl not forget as others will not, however many are trying to get us to forget or at least accept some responsibility for what happened. We must be vigilant against the people you did the attacking and the people who wish to down play what happened.

40 rw in san diego  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:51:11am

I will never forget those tortured souls who were forced to jump to their deaths because the Islamist induced hell in which they found themselves was intolerable.

Of all that Obama is doing, all the things with which I disagree, his desire to prosecute those who were trying to prevent another 9/11 is foremost among what I find unforgivable.

41 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:54:01am

I thank my lucky stars to be living here today.


Youtube Video
42 kulhwch  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:54:52am

And two single digits held high for the Cowards of the Koran. Thanks for showing the inferiority of your convictions.

):/     [Gutless ballless spineless brainless dingleberries, the lot of you.]

43 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:55:27am

Take care, Lizards.

44 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:55:41am

I remember the eerie days after 9-11 looking up in the sky wishing again to see planes flying again. I hope I never experience that again.

45 laZardo  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:55:45am

re: #43 MandyManners

Cheers.

46 Cathypop  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:55:49am

9/11/2001

UNITED WE STAND

47 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:55:58am

The flag is out, and we will have a lesson on this today. Not only will I not forget, but I will be sure my children know, as well. I have children old enough to understand who were babies at the time.

I remember the man that volunteered for the cleanup because he wanted to find his son. Day after day, shoveling, moving the rubble, looking for his boy.

48 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:56:03am

Reposted from the Overnight Thread so everyone gets to see it:

---
It was eight years ago. Eight years since our new reality was created. On that fateful day, September 11th, 2001, our freedom was attempted to be stripped from us. Because of those four planes, terrorists, and thousands of American lives lost, we now live in a new reality. A reality which we did not necessarily choose to live in, but one to which we are now obliged for the rest of our lives. It is a reality under a new threat that had never before been realized. There's a daily reminder of September 11th, 2001. In the news, in our minds. The images play in my mind constantly. So many people lost their lives on that day, for the sole reason that they were American. American, just like you and I, trying to provide an honest living for their families--taking the OPPORTUNITIES that our country had given them to do so. Terrorists have attempted to take what we have fought for, what we have paid for with our blood, sweat and tears over centuries, but we have risen stronger and fiercer. This new threat is indeed too real, but what is also real is the resolve of the American people. That resolve is greater than anything, and is one of the things that make me so proud to be an American.

Since that day, many measures have been taken to prevent another, possibly more catastrophic event from taking place. We must realize the threat, and we must be aware. People assume that they are now safe from evil because seven years have passed. They think that it's okay to act hesitantly and react rather than act. That should not be the case, and is a dangerous line of thinking.

We cannot live the way we did before, because if we forget the lessons learned from September 11th, 2001, history will repeat itself. We MUST come together and realize the true enemies. WE MUST fight together as one nation, rather than sit here and fight amongst ourselves. We must NEVER relent, and never give up. We must NEVER fall into a false sense of security. This is what the enemy wants, and being apathetic, oblivious, and careless will only validate their ultimate goals.

Over the last year and a half, we have lost sight of the importance in fighting against this enemy. Instead, our daily thoughts are with the economic situation that has plagued the world. While focusing on these problems is important, giving too much attention and not enough to a regrouping and still-very-alive threat is perilous, reckless, and potentially very destructive. With a new administration in tow, I can only hope that the importance of strong foreign policy is not lost upon them, and that they will continue to do whatever it takes to keep this nation and its’ people safe from further attack.

After all, as Ronald Reagan once said, "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free."

They may have broken our hearts, but they will never, EVER, break our spirit.

I feel personally attacked, offended, and hurt every day that some factions of people want to kill ME and destroy MY country, simply because I am an American.

9/11/2001. Never Again.
God Bless America

49 Irish Rose  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:56:21am

Charles, Reine and I were just discussing the Naudet documentary on the DT.
Have you seen it?

50 SurferDoc  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:56:40am

A note to the Troofers: When we remember this day, at some level we also realize why we hold you and your crackpot bullshit in such contempt.

Your many stupidities trivialize the sacrifice of so many who are your betters. They were heroes. You are fools.

51 rwmofo  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:56:59am

A little prayer for the safety for those who volunteered for the armed services after 911 is also appropriate today. These young people are doing something about it. These are our future leaders.

52 bloodnok  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:57:58am

re: #21 iceweasel

About suffering they were never wrong,
The Old Masters: how well they understood
Its human position; how it takes place
While someone else is eating or opening a window or just walking dully
along;
How, when the aged are reverently, passionately waiting
For the miraculous birth, there always must be
Children who did not specially want it to happen, skating
On a pond at the edge of the wood:
They never forgot
That even the dreadful martyrdom must run its course
Anyhow in a corner, some untidy spot
Where the dogs go on with their doggy life and the torturer's horse
Scratches its innocent behind on a tree.
In Breughel's Icarus, for instance: how everything turns away
Quite leisurely from the disaster; the plowman may
Have heard the splash, the forsaken cry,
But for him it was not an important failure; the sun shone
As it had to on the white legs disappearing into the green
Water; and the expensive delicate ship that must have seen
Something amazing, a boy falling out of the sky,
Had somewhere to get to and sailed calmly on.

Auden, Musee des Beaux Arts

{{{Ice}}} - Thanks for that.

53 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:58:23am

re: #50 SurferDoc

I'm actually pleasantly surprised that I haven't heard from any troofers yet today.

54 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:58:52am

re: #44 NJDhockeyfan

I remember the eerie days after 9-11 looking up in the sky wishing again to see planes flying again. I hope I never experience that again.

At the time, I lived in the shadow of Chicago O'Hare International Airport's landing pattern. I was never happier to see and hear an airplane in the sky than when the first flights started resuming that next week.

55 laZardo  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:59:17am

re: #53 JamesTKirk

DON'T JINX IT.

/just sayin.

56 Clemente  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:59:22am

re: #27 yochanan

...

yesterday my son in Israel said the bus he works on as a guard had large rock tossed throw the front window.

That phrase says much. Civilization in an unsought war against barbarity.

57 Liberal Classic  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:59:30am

It's a sad thing that it takes so horrible of an event to unite us as a people, and that we should be divided again so shortly afterward.

58 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:59:35am

re: #53 JamesTKirk

I'm actually pleasantly surprised that I haven't heard from any troofers yet today.

Do us all a favor. If you do, implant your foot in their [deleted] for us.

59 KansasMom  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:00:10am

I live in Wichita, so all my witnessing and experiences on 9/11 were secondhand, but still horrifying.
What has stuck with me is the eerie and unsettling experience of the grounding of all planes right after 9/11. It may seem silly and minor, but I live in the path of an Air Force Base runway and even the military planes were grounded. The uncharacteristically silent sky kept me awake at night.

60 jill e  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:00:48am

I'm remembering Laura Longing, a colleague who was killed when the first plane hit. She was back just a few weeks from a maternity leave. My company lost nearly 300 people that day.

This site shows the companies on each floor of both towers.

61 TheMatrix31  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:00:48am

Have You Forgotten?

62 BlueCanuck  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:00:54am

re: #58 thedopefishlives

Do us all a favor. If you do, implant your foot in their [deleted] for us.

Only way to reach their brains/heads, isn't it?

63 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:01:41am

re: #47 EmmmieG

we will have a lesson on this today. Not only will I not forget, but I will be sure my children know, as well. I have children old enough to understand who were babies at the time.

Hi EmmmieG, great idea. Me too. Check out my #11.

64 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:02:50am

re: #62 BlueCanuck

Only way to reach their brains/heads, isn't it?

That's assuming they have any brains to reach.

65 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:03:07am

re: #40 rw in san diego

I will never forget those tortured souls who were forced to jump to their deaths because the Islamist induced hell in which they found themselves was intolerable.

Of all that Obama is doing, all the things with which I disagree, his desire to prosecute those who were trying to prevent another 9/11 is foremost among what I find unforgivable.


I thought that the thud sounds of the leapers hitting the ground was the most sad & horrifying part of the whole thing.
Noone should ever refer to this as a man made disaster, it was murderous terrorism done in the name of the RoP.

66 Cato  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:03:14am

re: #59 KansasMom

Here in NY there were military vehicles and choppers everywhere. And although I have nothing but respect and admiration for the military, I felt that they were so out of place in my city. They are meant for "over there" not here in this beknighted land.

67 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:03:15am

re: #60 jill e

I'm remembering Laura Longing, a colleague who was killed when the first plane hit. She was back just a few weeks from a maternity leave. My company lost nearly 300 people that day.

This site shows the companies on each floor of both towers.

Wow. I'm surprised my college roommate's company had so many floors. But I can see why just about everybody got out. (For those who haven't read the entire thread, he was working at home mostly (now all the time) and was at home 9/11, but it took us a while to find out.)

68 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:03:46am

re: #62 BlueCanuck

Only way to reach their brains/heads, isn't it?

I don't think you could find their brains with an electron microscope.

69 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:03:48am

re: #49 Irish Rose

Charles, Reine and I were just discussing the Naudet documentary on the DT.
Have you seen it?

I've got it and will watch it tonight. I'm not sure how old my kids have to be to see that graphic look at evil, but I know it will be important.

70 Dave Bender  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:04:02am

Audio Podcast: 9/11: Reactions in Jerusalem's Old City: [Link: www.davebrianbender.com...]

71 yochanan  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:04:15am

re: #56 Clemente

anti semites trying to murder jews
SSDD

72 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:05:02am

re: #53 JamesTKirk

I'm actually pleasantly surprised that I haven't heard from any troofers yet today.

Well I'm sure Charlie Sheen will make some sort of moonbat statement today.

73 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:05:05am

re: #51 rwmofo

A little prayer for the safety for those who volunteered for the armed services after 911 is also appropriate today. These young people are doing something about it. These are our future leaders.

I saw a sign in a Marine barracks in Iraq on TV, "The Marines are at war, America is at the Mall."

74 DrNaughty  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:05:11am

re: #65 opnion

I thought that the thud sounds of the leapers hitting the ground was the most sad & horrifying part of the whole thing.
Noone should ever refer to this as a man made disaster, it was murderous terrorism done in the name of the RoP.

Hopefully today the Predators over Pakistan will launch a Hellfire missile into Bin Laden's cave.

75 abbyadams  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:05:16am

I remember that day - I work in Pittsburgh, in Oakland, across the street from the Cathedral of Learning. (Part of the University of Pittsburgh.) I just remember in those hours before we knew what was going on, how my coworkers and I just looked out the window at the very tall building that was across the street...and realized later how Flight 93 had likely crossed right over us. I also for some reason will never forget how clear and blue the sky was that day.

My prayers go out to the victims of that day -

Eternal rest grant unto them, O Lord, and may Thy perpetual light shine upon them.

76 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:05:36am

re: #54 thedopefishlives

At the time, I lived in the shadow of Chicago O'Hare International Airport's landing pattern. I was never happier to see and hear an airplane in the sky than when the first flights started resuming that next week.

It took longer, of course, for me to see flights going to and from Reagan National Airport in DC. I flew out of Reagan National in October, not too long after they re-opened (I forget exactly when that happened).

77 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:06:23am

re: #71 yochanan

anti semites trying to murder jews
SSDD

Hey Yochanon, how are you doin?
Detroit lost, so the Sox picked up half of a game.

78 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:06:47am

re: #58 thedopefishlives

Do us all a favor. If you do, implant your foot in their [deleted] for us.

It's probably for the best that I didn't ride the Metro this morning or I might have already gotten in trouble.

79 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:07:10am

It seems that I find myself more than not disagreeing with what Charles posts lately. Sometimes I even ask myself, "What's the difference between LGF & the Huffington Post or Daily Koz?" Today reminds me of the difference. No one here will be blaming America for the attacks of 9/11. No one will be blaming the Jews. No one will be claiming it was an inside job. No one will be claiming that it was "America's chickens coming home to roost." No one will be celebrating the attacks as a "beautiful revolution." No one will think that if we were just more "understanding" there wouldn't be any terrorist attacks. Charles, and the rest of us, all understand the nature of the threat that we face & agree that we must confront it with conviction & courage. That's why I became a Lizard 5 years ago & why I'm still proud to be one today. Thank you Charles.

80 Irish Rose  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:07:15am

I'm out for the morning, lizards.
I'm archiving personal accounts of the day, if anyone would like to leave one... click the blue.

81 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:07:25am

re: #63 Spenser (with an S)

Hi EmmmieG, great idea. Me too. Check out my #11.

Thanks.

82 brent  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:07:33am

We had a contractor come here (Ohio) that next Summer - insisted on driving from NYC. After he got here, he explained that he had been working at ground zero, and after watching and listening to bodies hit the ground (literally, close enough to hear bodies hit), he said he'd never get in an airplane again.

Not sure if that's still true, but the sheer ugliness of that day will never, should never be forgotten. It also should never be anything but a solemn remembrance of those lost; it's not national workers' day, not hug a tree day, not get out the vote. Remember.

83 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:08:01am

re: #72 NJDhockeyfan

Well I'm sure Charlie Sheen will make some sort of moonbat statement today.

Good thing I don't watch TV.

84 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:08:14am

re: #74 DrNaughty

Hopefully today the Predators over Pakistan will launch a Hellfire missile into Bin Laden's cave.

That would be a beautiful thing. Waterboarding would violate his human rights, so a Hellfire up his diumb ass is a better option.

85 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:08:23am

re: #54 thedopefishlives

At the time, I lived in the shadow of Chicago O'Hare International Airport's landing pattern. I was never happier to see and hear an airplane in the sky than when the first flights started resuming that next week.

I remember a couple of days after one morning while still in bed being startled and concerned by the sound of a plane overhead, then being relieved when I realized it was probably a fighter.

86 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:08:48am

It was my first day on the job in my chosen career.

87 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:08:50am

re: #78 JamesTKirk

It's probably for the best that I didn't ride the Metro this morning or I might have already gotten in trouble.

They're not worth getting arrested for, even if it seems like a good idea at the time. I think GAZE would apply today more than ever when it comes to Twoofer-land.

88 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:09:41am

re: #85 Mad Al-Jaffee

I remember a couple of days after one morning while still in bed being startled and concerned by the sound of a plane overhead, then being relieved when I realized it was probably a fighter.

I'm pretty sure I saw AF1 and its escorts flying over our airspace at some point in that timespan, but it's one of the few things I honestly can't remember about the whole event.

89 Athens Runaway  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:10:10am

re: #82 brent

OT: Where in Ohio? Also good to see other Buckeye-dwelling Lizards.

90 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:10:26am

re: #72 NJDhockeyfan

Well I'm sure Charlie Sheen will make some sort of moonbat statement today.

Apparently he has, according to Greg Gutfeld. No links to Sheen's "open letter," though.

91 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:10:30am

I'm in Austin. Had the Alex Jones brigades calling in to the morning talk show, expressing sadness and outrage at the loss of life that day, and wondering why the hosts hadn't mentioned the many "facts" that obviously point to it having been a false-flag operation by the government or rogue elements within it.

Jaw-droppingly insane. Evil.

92 mollyshark  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:10:38am

It is my son's birthday. I was on the way to his school with cupcakes for the kids..he was still a little guy. Stopped for coffee with my friend and as I walked into the coffee shop, noticed everyone crowded in the little back room around a computer screen set up as a TV. An ugly old black and white WANG monitor of all things. And there I stood and watched the 2nd Tower's destruction. The kids never did get the cupcakes. When it was done, I drove to his school and picked him up.

93 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:10:41am

re: #84 opnion

That would be a beautiful thing. Waterboarding would violate his human rights, so a Hellfire up his diumb ass is a better option.

Given how many years I believe him to have been dead, I don't think it makes a difference...

94 DrNaughty  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:11:14am

In addition to the victims in the Twin Towers, Pentagon and Flight 93, let us also remember those who have died over the years from breathing the toxic smoke and fumes of the Twin Towers after they collapsed.

I suspect there are countless hundreds, perhaps more. which have died due to their exposure to the massive dust cloud which contaminated the air afterwards...

95 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:12:05am

The airport seems to have a liitle more security today, I'm sure because this is the 9/11 anniversary.
You will be pleased to know though that nobody is getting their feelings hurt. The only people that I see recieveing extra screening have blonde hair & blue eyes, so we must expect to get hit by Norway.

96 Bloodnok  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:12:17am

A {hug} to all New York Lizards and Lurkers out there. I can't imagine what this is like for you. To remember that day and those weeks/months where you could not escape the feelings of death and loss of your beloved city. I can't imagine. I had it easy in comparison.

It's not all about patriotism for me. It's about admiration for people like you who lived through it and kept on. I've found New Yorkers to have a much different view of these things than I would have thought. They don't need to talk about it, they just know and do -and it still inspires me.

97 DrNaughty  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:13:04am

re: #96 Bloodnok

A {hug} to all New York Lizards and Lurkers out there. I can't imagine what this is like for you. To remember that day and those weeks/months where you could not escape the feelings of death and loss of your beloved city. I can't imagine. I had it easy in comparison.

It's not all about patriotism for me. It's about admiration for people like you who lived through it and kept on. I've found New Yorkers to have a much different view of these things than I would have thought. They don't need to talk about it, they just know and do -and it still inspires me.

On September 11th of each year, we are all New Yorkers.

98 laZardo  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:13:49am

re: #97 DrNaughty

Even the Red Sox fans.

/there, I said it.

99 yochanan  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:14:04am

re: #77 opnion

I think about sports on the 12th i get rather sad and morbid on sept 11. it is like the day jfk was murdered i remember exactly what I was doing when i heard the news. it doesn't feel like it was 8 years ago to me.

sort of like when my father died in front of me the memory is seared in my brain.

100 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:14:17am

re: #93 JamesTKirk

Given how many years I believe him to have been dead, I don't think it makes a difference...

I think so too. He is either dead or incapcitaed or he would be taunting
us, but the thought of him getting taken out is just a beautiful thought.

101 jorline  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:15:26am

Posted by jorline each 9/11...never forget!

Troofers

1. I know that four planes were hijacked on 9/11.
2. I know that 19 jihadist were aboard those four planes.
3. I know because we have cockpit recording of Arabic speaking males in all four cockpits on 9/11.
4. I know from cell phone recordings coming from passengers on flight 93 something was amiss on that plane.
5. I know there were several American heroes aboard flight 93.
6. I know 44 people died when flight 93 crashed in a field just outside Shanksville, Pennsylvania.
7. I know the Pentagon was hit by a plane. All 64 passengers and 125 people working in the Pentagon perished on 9/11.
8. I saw two planes crash into the twin towers on 9/11.
9. I know the twin towers were brought down on 9/11.
10. I know 2998 people from 90 different countries were murdered on 9/11, this includes 24 people that are missing and presumed dead.
11. I don't believe the US Government or Israel brought down those planes...period!

I didn't include the 19 hijackers with the 2998 lost souls from 9/11. The hijackers should never be listed with the 2998…they’re murders, FUCK THEM!

I think I can sum up the feelings of MOST Lizards on LGF this way.
FUCK THE TROOFERS!

102 Beach Lover  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:15:35am

Please watch to remember what we are fighting for...even today!

Youtube Video
103 Athens Runaway  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:15:49am

re: #88 thedopefishlives

I'm pretty sure I saw AF1 and its escorts flying over our airspace at some point in that timespan, but it's one of the few things I honestly can't remember about the whole event.

My home at the time is near the flightpath for the 179th Air National Guard Airlift Wing base in Mansfield, Ohio.

We were C-130 central for several weeks after 9/11, as their resources were being diverted to Rickenbacker AFB. Those mothers were hauling a** over my house, and were flying low, which I know is not standard procedure, out of consideration to all of us country folk who live in the flightpath to head to Rickenbacker in Columbus.

It was quite a beautiful sight to see them before they reached crusing altitude and speed.

104 gregb  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:15:50am

re: #72 NJDhockeyfan

Well I'm sure Charlie Sheen will make some sort of moonbat statement today.

Troofer of the worst type:

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

I got to visit the top of the World Trade Center when I was about 13. It definitely left a sense of awe. I had a discussion about post-traumatic stress the other week. One of the symptoms is a complete avoidance of having to think about or think about the consequences of a traumatic event. In order to cope, sufferers will reach for anything that helps them reach that goal--even suspending rational thought.

If there's a parallel in politics over these past 8 years, that's definitely it.

105 DrNaughty  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:16:04am

re: #100 opnion

I think so too. He is either dead or incapcitaed or he would be taunting
us, but the thought of him getting taken out is just a beautiful thought.

I believe he will be like Hitler in May 1945. We knew he was dead, but it took 50 years until the demise of the Soviet Union, for his remains to be released to the west for that final evidence to be made public.

106 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:16:09am

re: #94 DrNaughty

The tragic circumstances of the aftermath is continuing to take lives.

Reports indicate that the number of people who have died as a result of their exposure to Ground Zero has increased. Moreover, several responders have committed suicide.

More than 800 World Trade Center rescue and recovery workers have died since 9/11 -- and cancer has killed at least 270 of those heroes, new data show.

The figures also show that 33 WTC responders committed suicide.

State researchers have tallied 817 deaths of workers and volunteers who toiled at toxic Ground Zero or the Fresh Kills landfill, where rubble was sifted.

I will say that Sen. Hillary Clinton did quite a good job keeping the health issues as a top priority and obtaining funds to provide care and to monitor the health of those at Ground Zero and at Fresh Kills where the debris from Ground Zero was taken for disposition and sifting for human remains.

107 Diamond Bullet  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:16:25am

Morning of 9/11, I fled my law school class to call the Pentagon looking for my father.

Later, I helped a former Navy officer who suffered burns over 70% of his body at the Pentagon from jet fuel manage his estate for his children, because he wasn't sure how much longer he'd last.

We will have justice.

We will.

108 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:17:30am

I recall I was on the phone to my teacher in Jerusalem when the second plane hit. He and I were discussing another matter when he told me to turn on the news, a plane had just hit a building in NY. I got a picture just in time to see the second one go in.

I heard him gasp, then drop the phone, then hang up. I called back, and the man, in his 70's, who had seen the War, was wounded in the fight for Israeli independence, served in the IDF, the whole Zionist biography (he the grandson of 19th century Zionist pioneers), and he sobbed and wept.

109 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:17:33am

re: #99 yochanan

I think about sports on the 12th i get rather sad and morbid on sept 11. it is like the day jfk was murdered i remember exactly what I was doing when i heard the news. it doesn't feel like it was 8 years ago to me.

sort of like when my father died in front of me the memory is seared in my brain.

True, 9/11 is one of those moments, we all know what we were doing.
It was as infuriating as anything that I can remember & it was an eye opener.

110 yesandno  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:19:36am

in time of daffodils(who know
the goal of living is to grow)
forgetting why,remember how

in time of lilacs who proclaim
the aim of waking is to dream,
remember so(forgetting seem)

in time of roses(who amaze
our now and here with paradise)
forgetting if,remember yes

in time of all sweet things beyond
whatever mind may comprehend,
remember seek(forgetting find)

and in a mystery to be
(when time from time shall set us free)
forgetting me,remember me

e.e..cummings

111 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:19:45am

re: #105 DrNaughty

I believe he will be like Hitler in May 1945. We knew he was dead, but it took 50 years until the demise of the Soviet Union, for his remains to be released to the west for that final evidence to be made public.


That may be true, or al Quaeda will guard the image & swear that he lived to age 97.

112 laZardo  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:20:19am

re: #106 lawhawk

I saw this British documentary debunking twoofer claims, I don't know if it was BBC or Channel 4 or some other.

The one thing that disturbed me the most was this humongous yet flat-ish brown chunk of metal that looked like it had been once been a chunk of a cliffside. It was barely taller than the commentator.

The commentator explained that was literally 3 floors squished and molded together from the heat generated from the collapse.

Makes me wonder if there is a God.

113 yochanan  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:20:32am

re: #108 Guanxi88

i still do when i look at the photos i can never get all the way through some of them.

114 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:20:36am

Breaking: FNC is reporting the Coast Guard has fired on a suspicious boat on the Potomac in DC.

115 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:21:04am

And the country that harbored the terrorists and refused to hand them over, is still making news - and not in a good way. Obama is having a hard time trying to keep Democrats on the ball over Afghanistan. Their commitment is wavering. The deep slumber of ignorant bliss continues to seep into the Democratic party, and threatens our national security because it is from such failed states that al Qaeda sprung its massive 9/11 attack on us, and it is from such places that they could do so again, notwithstanding the Guardian's report claiming that we've done serious damage to al Qaeda. If anything, the degraded condition of al Qaeda makes it even more difficult to track the key leaders, and reduces the chances to penetrate their inner circle to get needed intel on whereabouts and plans.

116 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:21:05am

Hedadline News is reporting that a boat was just fired on near Washington
DC. That is all they have so far.

117 captdiggs  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:21:23am

I will never forget that quiet, warm, and sunny morning. The day that Islamic Jihad came to America.

118 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:21:58am

re: #116 opnion

Hedadline News is reporting that a boat was just fired on near Washington DC. That is all they have so far.

Let us know when there's more, please. I can walk from here to the Potomac (or swim, given how much rain we got this morning).

119 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:22:09am

re: #116 opnion

Hedadline News is reporting that a boat was just fired on near Washington
DC. That is all they have so far.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

120 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:22:40am

My uncle in New Jersey is a psychologist who spent many hours counseling 1st responders both those days down at Ground Zero and much later in his offices. He is quite the blowhard usually, but he has always been very quiet about that part of his life.

121 Cheesehead  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:24:50am

It's really strange, here I am sitting in the same chair at the same desk in the same office that I was sitting in exactly eight years ago. So much has changed since then, and yet, so much hasn't.
God bless those souls lost that day, eight years ago. You're not forgotten.

122 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:24:56am

re: #119 lawhawk

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

I couldn't get audio, what's the gist?

123 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:24:57am

re: #117 captdiggs

I will never forget that quiet, warm, and sunny morning. The day that Islamic Jihad came to America.

Not for the first time. They tried to take down the Towers once before - 1993, killing six people and wounding over 1,000 others. It took hours to evacuate the towers, and security precautions and improvements in evacuation procedures from the lessons learned in 1993 helped save thousands of lives on 9/11.

124 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:25:18am

re: #122 opnion

I think they're just showing video of boats on the Potomac, can't tell anything else going on...

125 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:26:01am

re: #118 JamesTKirk

Let us know when there's more, please. I can walk from here to the Potomac (or swim, given how much rain we got this morning).

I will, they have not said another word. It could just be a mistaken report.

126 yochanan  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:26:04am

re: #117 captdiggs

I will never forget that quiet, warm, and sunny morning. The day that Islamic Jihad came to America.

jihad had already come to america this was just the battle they won on a mass scale.

127 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:26:33am

The British Daily Mail has an account of the situation, but nothing else from US sources.

128 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:26:56am

re: #124 lawhawk

I think they're just showing video of boats on the Potomac, can't tell anything else going on...

Yeah, I couldn't fgigure out their point. The same footage was on TV.

129 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:27:22am

re: #124 lawhawk

I think they're just showing video of boats on the Potomac, can't tell anything else going on...

Just a banner, no story, on Fox "Coast Guard Reportedly Fires on Boat Near Pentagon 9/11 Ceremony"
That's it.

130 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:27:35am

re: #122 opnion

I couldn't get audio, what's the gist?

Same here. No audio but a little static.

131 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:28:03am

re: #129 Kosh's Shadow

Just a banner, no story, on Fox "Coast Guard Reportedly Fires on Boat Near Pentagon 9/11 Ceremony"
That's it.

Assuming it's not just some moron, it's as likely to be a Troofer as it is to be anything else.

132 Colin Nelson  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:28:13am

I will never forget the jumpers - may God protect them.

I will never forget the feeling that something evil was afoot.

I will never forget that in the moment and the immediate aftermath, President Bush stood tallshowing leadership and yes personal courage.The office does transform the man. History will judge him well.

I will never forget my fear following the attack on the second tower that this might not work out ...

I will never forget that this was and is an assault on the very soul of our Judeo-Christian tradition and world view.

I will never forget.

133 DrNaughty  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:28:38am

re: #131 Guanxi88

Assuming it's not just some moron, it's as likely to be a Troofer as it is to be anything else.

Probably

Wrong place, wrong time, paying the price for a bad decision.

134 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:29:02am

NPR had a heartwarming segment this morning about that Masai tribe who donated cattle to the U.S. after 9/11: 14 Cows For America. I had forgotten about that, and how touched I was at the time.

135 Pianobuff  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:29:07am

I remember driving to work on 9/11. I was on the road fairly early in the PST time zone and Howard Stern was on the radio. They were freaking out on the show and I tuned in just as the 2nd tower was struck. I thought this was some kind of spoof that they were doing in a "War of the Worlds" kind of fashion. 5 minutes of listening confirmed that this was really happening. By the time I arrived at the office the building security had positioned TV sets in all of the group areas where the news was being broadcast.

One of the grimmest memories I have.

To the families of the fallen, my heartfelt condolences and prayers remain with you.

136 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:29:16am

re: #131 Guanxi88

Assuming it's not just some moron, it's as likely to be a Troofer as it is to be anything else.

You mean Troofers aren't morons???

137 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:29:24am

re: #133 DrNaughty

Probably

Wrong place, wrong time, paying the price for a bad decision.

The article in the British web site linked earlier said just warning shots were fired.

138 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:29:27am

re: #127 lawhawk

The British Daily Mail has an account of the situation, but nothing else from US sources.

Thanks, that is more clarifying. I couldn't tell from Headline News , who fired & if the Coast Guard arrived after the fact. I assume the Coast Guard pursued?

139 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:29:40am

re: #131 Guanxi88

Assuming it's not just some moron, it's as likely to be a Troofer as it is to be anything else.

But you repeat yourself.

140 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:29:40am

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. Coast Guard tried Friday to prevent a boat from entering a security zone on the Potomac River not far from the Pentagon, where President Obama was at an event commemorating the September 11 attacks.

There were reports on police scanners that the Coast Guard fired 10 rounds of ammunition, but those reports could not immediately be confirmed. It was not immediately clear from the reports whether they referred to warning shots.

The incident took place between the Memorial and 14th Street bridges, in a zone that had been blocked off because of the ceremonies.

Obama had departed the Pentagon shortly after 10 a.m. ET. Reports of the incident came in shortly after 10 a.m. ET.

141 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:29:49am

re: #136 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

You mean Troofers aren't morons???

No, they're crazy. Morons are just struggling with limitations.

142 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:30:27am

re: #137 Kosh's Shadow

The article in the British web site linked earlier said just warning shots were fired.

"Ten" is an awful lot of "warning shots", isn't it?

143 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:30:28am

re: #130 JamesTKirk

Same here. No audio but a little static.

See Lawhawks 127

144 yochanan  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:30:33am

re: #134 The Sanity Inspector

i remember that one too esp since cows to them are their most important thing.

145 captdiggs  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:30:37am

re: #123 lawhawk

Not for the first time. They tried to take down the Towers once before - 1993, killing six people and wounding over 1,000 others. It took hours to evacuate the towers, and security precautions and improvements in evacuation procedures from the lessons learned in 1993 helped save thousands of lives on 9/11.

I know.
But 9/11/01 is the date of infamy, as is December 7, 1941. Neither is the precise beginning, but both stand as definitive moments in history.

146 laZardo  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:30:54am

Headin' to bed, been up since 5:30 AM.

Never forget. Never forgive.

147 Baier  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:30:59am

re: #141 Guanxi88

No, they're crazy. Morons are just struggling with limitations.

Saying they are crazy lets them off the hook a bit, don't you think?

148 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:31:02am

re: #142 JamesTKirk

"Ten" is an awful lot of "warning shots", isn't it?

I could make a joke about the Coast Guard, but not today.

149 DrNaughty  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:31:04am

re: #140 Occasional Reader

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. Coast Guard tried Friday to prevent a boat from entering a security zone on the Potomac River not far from the Pentagon, where President Obama was at an event commemorating the September 11 attacks.

There were reports on police scanners that the Coast Guard fired 10 rounds of ammunition, but those reports could not immediately be confirmed. It was not immediately clear from the reports whether they referred to warning shots.

The incident took place between the Memorial and 14th Street bridges, in a zone that had been blocked off because of the ceremonies.

Obama had departed the Pentagon shortly after 10 a.m. ET. Reports of the incident came in shortly after 10 a.m. ET.

The CG is saying there were no shots fired. They were conducting some sort of exercise

150 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:31:12am

re: #142 JamesTKirk

"Ten" is an awful lot of "warning shots", isn't it?

The Coast Guard boats they have patrolling the Potomac that I've seen have pintel-mounted M249s. It doesn't take much trigger squeeze on those to get off 10 rounds.

151 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:31:42am

re: #139 thedopefishlives

But you repeat yourself.

yes, redundant.

152 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:31:52am

I am sitting right where I was on that day...I remember my wife trying to interrupt me while I was on a call to get me to look at the TV behind me...I can remember that pit in my stomach as I watched and heard the reports (both real and not real) coming in so fast...

I also remember laying in bed with the windows open and hearing the single jet fighter pass over head every few minutes...that was eerie...

I also remember people talking at the time about how America will forget about this over time and move back to a pre 9/11 mentality...I hope that is not happening.

153 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:32:17am

We remember those who were murdered; we honor those who carried the fight to the enemy.

154 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:32:34am

re: #147 Baier

Saying they are crazy lets them off the hook a bit, don't you think?

Well, I've always thought that a good chunk of these fellows are simply low-grade neurotics or depressives taken in by intelligent, but unmedicated, paranoid schizophrenics. I don't deny or discount that some of the leadership may be clearly and coldly rational in their actions, but playing with madness has the nasty effect of eventually making you stark raving mad.

155 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:33:22am

re: #145 captdiggs

I know.
But 9/11/01 is the date of infamy, as is December 7, 1941. Neither is the precise beginning, but both stand as definitive moments in history.

At least the Japanese attacked a military base, and not civilians.
(To make sure the I don't let the Japanese off entirely, I'll mention the Rape of Nanking)

156 Baier  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:34:20am

re: #154 Guanxi88

Something is wrong with them, that's for sure.

157 FightingBack  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:34:39am

This morning I went over to our local NYC suburban fire house, and watched as they lowered the flag, rang the bell. A High Schooler sang the Star Spangled Banner. We had a handful of spectators, besides the firefighters, volunteer firefighters and the Chaplain. It's a private ceremony; we invite residents. We don't let The Press come.

158 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:35:45am

THe bombing of the World Trade Ctr Garage & the Cole should have been our heads up. The Jihad against us was in motion. They were at war with us & we didn't see it.

159 DrNaughty  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:36:18am

re: #155 Kosh's Shadow

At least the Japanese attacked a military base, and not civilians.
(To make sure the I don't let the Japanese off entirely, I'll mention the Rape of Nanking)

Also Pearl Harbor was not planned as a "Sneak Attack".. It was a massive fkup by the Japanese Diplomats in Washington that delayed the announcement of a state of War existing between Japan and the United States. The Pearl Harbor attack was supposed to happen an hour or so afterward.

9/11 however. was a terrorist attack without any precedent..

160 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:36:29am

re: #158 opnion

THe bombing of the World Trade Ctr Garage & the Cole should have been our heads up. The Jihad against us was in motion. They were at war with us & we didn't see it.

the question is...do we see it now?

161 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:36:37am

re: #156 Baier

Something is wrong with them, that's for sure.

Don't forget, too, that the rational embrace of evil is, by definition, madness. It's why I don't doubt that most perpetrators of atrocities are insane; of course they are - if they weren't before their crimes, they certainly were made so afterward, by the realization of what they had done.

162 captdiggs  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:37:03am

A quote I think of when people suggest appeasement.

"Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say, What should be the reward of such sacrifices? Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship, and plow, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom--go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen"
~ Samuel Adams

163 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:37:07am

re: #155 Kosh's Shadow

At least the Japanese attacked a military base, and not civilians.
(To make sure the I don't let the Japanese off entirely, I'll mention the Rape of Nanking)

Also, IIRC during the Pearl Harbor attack, they also strafed the streets of Honolulu somewhat.

164 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:37:23am

re: #134 The Sanity Inspector

NPR had a heartwarming segment this morning about that Masai tribe who donated cattle to the U.S. after 9/11: 14 Cows For America. I had forgotten about that, and how touched I was at the time.

There's a great children's book detailing that wonderful story. “there is no nation so powerful it cannot be wounded, nor a people so small they cannot offer mighty comfort.”

165 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:37:27am

I did go into work, after calling my wife to have her check on our friends, my college roommate and his wife, because at the time he was working in the towers 2 days a week. He was home, but it took us a while to be sure.
I did go into work, but didn't get much done and eventually we were told we could go home, where I watched the coverage on TV all day. One of our dogs realized something was going on, and stayed with me.
(FYI, my VP at work was Muslim, from India, and he was concerned that this made his religion look bad (not that he'd be attacked). )

166 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:38:30am

THe incident on the Potomac was a coast guard training exercise.

167 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:39:01am

re: #166 opnion

THe incident on the Potomac was a coast guard training exercise.

They couldn't find another time or location, I suppose.

168 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:39:02am

re: #155 Kosh's Shadow

At least the Japanese attacked a military base, and not civilians.
(To make sure the I don't let the Japanese off entirely, I'll mention the Rape of Nanking)

The rape of Nanking is almost forgotten in WWII history yet it was one of the most brutal and immoral events of the war. If you look at the Japanese press clippings from that time...you will see it was celebrated in the press...so grotesque.

169 VioletTiger  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:39:10am

I remember a perfect sunny morning in September. I was so busy at work, I didn't even realize what had happened. Everyone else was watching it or listening to it down the hall. When somebody ran in my offfice and told me I remember feeling so cold inside. I think I shivered all day.
I will never forget.

170 Dreader1962  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:39:11am

8 years ago today, I woke up expecting to enjoy my first day of leave (I was still in the Army stationed in the DC area at the time). I slept in, then turned on the television to check the news as I always did. It was perhaps a minute before the second plane hit.

As I watched the events unfold, I felt all of the emotions that all Americans felt, with one additional - I distinctly remember leaning against the counter and weeping because I was ashamed. You see, I was assigned to a special ops unit whose primary mission was counter-terror. I felt a immense feeling of personal failure - I was supposed to help prevent this sort of thing from happening!

It wasn't rational, but it was a very real feeling. I remember that each time I hear a toofer spouting off on how the US military participated in these attacks. That evokes an entirely different reaction, and tests my self-control each time.

171 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:40:13am

re: #165 Kosh's Shadow

because at the time he was working in the towers 2 days a week. He was home, but it took us a while to be sure

A cousin of mine worked in one of the towers. In all the confusion, and with the jammed phone lines, I didn't find out until about 3 in the afternoon that she was okay. Weirdly enough, that was the moment in the day when I finally broke down and wept.

172 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:40:47am

re: #167 Guanxi88

They couldn't find another time or location, I suppose.

Planned by the same office that did the AF1 lower Manhattan flyover, no doubt...

173 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:40:51am

re: #169 VioletTiger

I remember a perfect sunny morning in September. I was so busy at work, I didn't even realize what had happened. Everyone else was watching it or listening to it down the hall. When somebody ran in my offfice and told me I remember feeling so cold inside. I think I shivered all day.
I will never forget.

I sat in my apartment in austin. Had the TV on mute, the radio on the am news station. Smoked 3 packs of cigarettes that day, and still couldn't lose the jitters.

174 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:41:04am

re: #167 Guanxi88

They couldn't find another time or location, I suppose.

Especially when the President was at the Pentagon today? If that's true, someone at the USCG is an incredible moron.

175 VioletTiger  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:41:15am

re: #170 Dreader1962

Of all the idiots out there, the troofers are the ones that make my blood boil.

176 Pianobuff  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:41:18am

re: #159 DrNaughty

Also Pearl Harbor was not planned as a "Sneak Attack".. It was a massive fkup by the Japanese Diplomats in Washington that delayed the announcement of a state of War existing between Japan and the United States. The Pearl Harbor attack was supposed to happen an hour or so afterward.

9/11 however. was a terrorist attack without any precedent..

Wasn't/isn't there also a 9-11'ish truther conspiracy theory about Pearl Harbor in the dark corners of the paranoid citizenry?

177 Cato  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:41:26am

Truther craziness persists:

[Link: www.salon.com...]

178 Dahveed  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:42:02am

I will never forget the images that day. Among the images that stands out for me is while most people were running away that day, the firefighters were heading towards the towers. They knew that they were going into harm's way, probably knew they were going to their deaths, and went anyways. No one can look at that and not be awe-struck by the bravery of the first responders.

May they all rest in peace.

179 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:42:04am

re: #160 Charpete67

the question is...do we see it now?

We did, now we don't. After there was a feeling of saftey The MSM & the Leftwent after Bush.
Look where we are at now, the current Administration uses terminology like
"Man Made Disaster" & "Overseas Contigency Operation."
Congress declares today , a day of National Srevice.

180 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:42:07am

re: #171 Occasional Reader

A cousin of mine worked in one of the towers. In all the confusion, and with the jammed phone lines, I didn't find out until about 3 in the afternoon that she was okay. Weirdly enough, that was the moment in the day when I finally broke down and wept.

Same here, I had a cousin in the North Tower, had arrived for a meeting for 9:00 am and left about 6 minutes later because no one showed up for the meeting.

181 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:42:13am

re: #173 Guanxi88

I sat in my apartment in austin. Had the TV on mute, the radio on the am news station. Smoked 3 packs of cigarettes that day, and still couldn't lose the jitters.

it's funny you say that...I smoked a lot that day and my wife didn't say a word...first and only time. (I did quit)

182 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:42:39am

Well it may be unpleasant to hear, but America is preoccupied with trying to forget 9/11.

No - not the victims. Few are that callous.

What they are trying to forget is that we live in a shrinking world in which many of the world's citizens live under tyrants in societies dominated by superstition, irrationality and fervent nationalism. Where one does not grow up asking "what do I want to be when I grow up?" Such are silly questions.

Instead there are grievances to be addressed and past wrongs to be avenged.

But Americans can't think that way and don't understand those who do. Instead, we recast them as a class of victims who are in need of either our respect or aid. We recast the world so that we can operate in ours uncluttered by the fact that most of the world is only vaguely familiar with modernity and pluralism.

So people forget. They hear the words "nine eleven" with a sense of foreboding. The sense that the person saying those words will try to use that event to impose a reality on them that they'd rather not live with.

America has an escapist culture. Perhaps that is a good thing since we allow past wrongs to stay in the past. We do move on. But do we learn? Are we prepared to fight a multi-generational war? Or are we culturally moving on while, in the back of our minds, allowing the dirty work to be outsourced to a few men and women in uniform who will bear the burden of seeing things for what they are?

I will never forget, but I feel that I am a member of a shrinking minority out of step with my countrymen.

183 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:43:07am

re: #167 Guanxi88

They couldn't find another time or location, I suppose.

Could they have used worse judgement? The Presidents motorcade was almost in the area.

184 DrNaughty  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:43:55am

re: #183 opnion

Could they have used worse judgement? The Presidents motorcade was almost in the area.

Clearly, someone forgot to think...

185 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:44:14am

re: #179 opnion

We did, now we don't. After there was a feeling of saftey The MSM & the Leftwent after Bush.
Look where we are at now, the current Administration uses terminology like
"Man Made Disaster" & "Overseas Contigency Operation."
Congress declares today , a day of National Srevice.

that's my read on it too...they didn't think it would happen the first time and now they are saying the odds of it happening again are even slimmer.

They forgot '93 and now they are forgetting '01...the threat isn't gone...the attacks will only get larger...

186 MikeAlv77  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:44:14am

re: #159 DrNaughty

Also Pearl Harbor was not planned as a "Sneak Attack".. It was a massive fkup by the Japanese Diplomats in Washington that delayed the announcement of a state of War existing between Japan and the United States. The Pearl Harbor attack was supposed to happen an hour or so afterward.

9/11 however. was a terrorist attack without any precedent..

Giving an hour of warning is just about as bad and would not have made a difference.

187 harpsicon  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:44:19am

re: #21 iceweasel

You post such great poems!

May I ask you the name of the Edna St Vincent Millay poem you posted a week (?) ago, a 14-line sort of pseudo-sonnet expressing the woman's feelings that even though she had a good time, the man was not to think it was anything she needed desperately forever...

Thanks!

188 freedombilly  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:44:21am

May we never forget. I will be going to Ground Zero later to pay my respects.

189 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:44:37am

re: #160 Charpete67

the question is...do we see it now?

Some of us.
Unfortunately, too many who do see that we're still at war, want to ally with groups that are quite unsavory themselves. That might be understandable in some cases; after all, we allied with Stalin against Hitler, but these people either see no problem in such alliances, or actually appear to be sympathetic with the racism and hatred that make them so unsavory.

190 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:45:01am

re: #168 Charpete67

The rape of Nanking is almost forgotten in WWII history yet it was one of the most brutal and immoral events of the war. If you look at the Japanese press clippings from that time...you will see it was celebrated in the press...so grotesque.

They treated massacring people as a sporting event - seeing which soldiers could bayonet the most civilians a day. Iris Chang's The Rape of Nanking should be required reading. I have other books in my history library about the Kempetai, Japan's answer to the Gestapo/SS.

191 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:45:41am

re: #176 Pianobuff

Indeed there is. Some percentage of Americans believed that FDR knew of the attack and did nothing, hoping to get the US into the war against Germany - finally overcoming the deep isolationist bent.

After the attacks, the US declared war on Japan - who had attacked the US at Pearl. It was several days later when Germany declared war on the US.

192 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:46:03am

re: #190 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

They treated massacring people as a sporting event - seeing which soldiers could bayonet the most civilians a day. Iris Chang's The Rape of Nanking should be required reading. I have other books in my history library about the Kempetai, Japan's answer to the Gestapo/SS.

yes...that is the press clippings I was referring to...it's almost unbelievable what they did.

193 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:46:11am

re: #173 Guanxi88

I drank about half a liter of Jameson, and probably seveal beers, that night and felt nothing but numb. I had a doctor's appointment the next day. Not a good day for getting bloodwork done.

194 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:46:22am

re: #177 Cato

Truther craziness persists:

[Link: www.salon.com...]

Suprise, suprise:

Ed Asner (through his company, Quince Productions): Mr. Asner would sign the petition again without the slightest hesitation.

And on, and on... almost all those interviewed cheerfully saying yes, they'd sign it again. So much for the claim that all the signatories were duped into signing it, eh?

195 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:46:30am

re: #166 opnion

THe incident on the Potomac was a coast guard training exercise.

Good grief, maybe I will make with the Coast Guard jokes.

196 DrNaughty  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:46:35am

re: #191 lawhawk

Indeed there is. Some percentage of Americans believed that FDR knew of the attack and did nothing, hoping to get the US into the war against Germany - finally overcoming the deep isolationist bent.

After the attacks, the US declared war on Japan - who had attacked the US at Pearl. It was several days later when Germany declared war on the US.

To the chagrin of the German High Command, which believed Hitler was insane for doing so.

197 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:46:46am

Watching the TSA profile anybody who does not fit the profile makes me really less than enthusiastic about the Feds running health care.
I can envision a cancer diagnosis getting you a heart transplant.

198 J.S.  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:47:07am

Yes, I will never forget...nor forgive those responsible.

199 yma o hyd  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:47:16am

Hiya, Lizard Nation!

Reading your stories brought tears to my eyes.

I'll never forget the haunting photo of a young NYFD fireman walking up the stairs in one of the Twin Towers while everybody was fleeing downstairs. He looked as if he knew death was coming, but did his duty anyway.

It was such a beautiful morning ... just like today ...

May God bless and keep all who perished on that day, especially all those who died in the line of duty.

For those who did this - not just in the planes, but the whole of AlQaeda: fear God's wrath! He will indeed judge you.

200 Danny  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:47:55am

It was always the thought of those eight children who were murdered that upset me the most about 9-11. Asia, Bernie, and Rodney, all 11 years old; Zoe, age 8; Dana and David, both 3 years old; 2 year old Christine, and 4 year old Juliana -- may God keep and hold all of you forever.

201 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:47:59am

re: #193 Mad Al-Jaffee

I drank about half a liter of Jameson, and probably seveal beers, that night and felt nothing but numb. I had a doctor's appointment the next day. Not a good day for getting bloodwork done.

Had no booze in the house, and no desire to leave the chair I was in..

202 MikeAlv77  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:48:01am

For Debbie

My wife and I knew one of the flight attendents on Flight 93. She is the sister of my wife's childhood friend. We remember it every year when she called to us to say that her sister was on the flight. Her name was Debbie Welsh.

203 JPL17  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:48:07am

re: #9 Leonidas Hoplite

I'd like to add that, in addition to remembering all those mentioned above, I'll be remembering the children who lost parents on that day.

Amen to that. A classmate of my son lost her dad in the WTC attack -- his first frickin' day of work at a brand new job. Sweet family. I'll be saying a prayer for them today.

204 Athos  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:48:30am

Rest in Peace - all of those innocents who were murdered in NYC, in the Pentagon, and on Flight 93 8 years ago. We can never forget.

We need to remember the bravery of NY's finest - members of the New York Fire Department, New York Police department, Port Authority Police Department and others who, while thousands climbed down stairs fleeing the fires, climbed up dozens of floors in the Towers to attempt to rescue those trapped.

We need to remember the civilians on Flight 93 who fought back against the terrorists under the cry - "Let's Roll" and prevented that aircraft from hitting its target in Washington DC.

We need to remember that this was not the first attack, or act of war, against us by Islamic terrorists and that they are continuing their fight against us, our values, and our beliefs every day. We have brave men and women on the front lines in a number of countries who are risking all to protect us.

I worked in NYC for a number of years before moving to CA in 2000. In the last 2 years of that, my company had offices in 7 WTC, and I attended nearly monthly meetings in the area including regular breakfast meetings at Windows on the World. I have friends who worked in the towers, and count myself fortunate that all escaped that day- including one who was on the 76th floor of the North Tower.

I traveled to NJ Christmas 2001 to visit friends and family. I went into NYC and made my way downtown...I will never forget the smell or the silence as the NYFD removed under honors the remains of 2 firefighters who were found in the debris that morning. The fires had been out only a few weeks.

Let's also remember that the death toll from this attack continues to climb - rescue workers and civilians are dying from cancer and other illnesses resulting from that day and their work clearing the site.

While I remain angry over the attack, much of this anger has transformed into a resolve that every one of us has to do all we can to stand up to evil when we see it and protect the core values and freedoms that we enjoy.

We can never forget.

205 brennant  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:48:33am

I will never forget that day. I remember the other people stuck in traffic with me... every face looked so stricken.

Never forget!!

206 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:48:58am

re: #194 Occasional Reader

Suprise, suprise:

Good grief.

I need more coffee.

207 MikeAlv77  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:49:52am

re: #196 DrNaughty

always an interesting thought exercise. What if Germany had NOt declared war on us. Would we have declared on them with no attack from them? Don't want to detract from the 9/11 thread. Maybe in an open thread...

208 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:50:16am

re: #194 Occasional Reader

Not entirely - Paul Hawken said that he never signed and had demanded from the troofers proof of signature, which never came. He's called for his name to be pulled from the petition (and the troofers have not done so).

I'd say that the jury's still out, but many of those who signed onto the petition are just as convinced now as they were then that things need to be investigated and Bush was somehow involved.

209 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:50:34am
210 Danny  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:51:01am

I can also recall George W. Bush nearly coming to tears was when he mentioned the children killed in 9-11.

211 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:51:06am

re: #189 Kosh's Shadow

Some of us.
Unfortunately, too many who do see that we're still at war, want to ally with groups that are quite unsavory themselves. That might be understandable in some cases; after all, we allied with Stalin against Hitler, but these people either see no problem in such alliances, or actually appear to be sympathetic with the racism and hatred that make them so unsavory.

...it's why I don't understand how we cannot stand more strongly with Israel...who besides Israel is a better friend in the Middle East and who else understands the threat better?

212 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:51:39am

re: #199 yma o hyd

I'll never forget the haunting photo of a young NYFD fireman walking up the stairs in one of the Twin Towers while everybody was fleeing downstairs. He looked as if he knew death was coming, but did his duty anyway.

The video footage of the firefighters assembling on the ground floor of the tower, shot by those two French filmmakers, is absolutely harrowing. You can see both the fear, and the determination, in their faces, as they mobilize to head upstairs. They knew that what was happening was outside the boundaries of anything they could have trained for. And they went willingly, despite that.

213 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:51:46am

You know, if the MSM was sane, we'd be having documentaries on 9/11, and what I'd do, is have the interviews with the celebrity troofers with the background videos being the planes crashing into the towers, just to make them look ridiculous and stupid.

214 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:51:50am

that's my read on it too...they didn't think it would happen the first time and now they are saying the odds of it happening again are even slimmer.

They forgot '93 and now they are forgetting '01...the threat isn't gone...the attacks will only get larger...

I am afraid so, the Jihad is patient. An example of how long this has gone on is Jefferson asking the Ambassador from Tripoli, why the Barbary Pirates were harassing our ships & imprisoning our sailors.
This was at the Court of Saint James & the answer was Jihad.
Jefferson bought a Koran to learn about the enemy not as Obama tries to sell that he respected Islam.

215 yma o hyd  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:52:26am

re: #185 Charpete67

that's my read on it too...they didn't think it would happen the first time and now they are saying the odds of it happening again are even slimmer.

They forgot '93 and now they are forgetting '01...the threat isn't gone...the attacks will only get larger...

The threat is indeed not gone.
Those jihadis who were found guilty at that trial in the UK very recently were planning to destroy eleven planes flyng to major cities in the USA.

They are the reason we can't take liquids on board airplanes. People pooh-pooh'd this at the time - but now, after the trial, it makes you shudder to think what might ahve happened, had they been successful.

216 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:52:29am

re: #212 Occasional Reader

The video footage of the firefighters assembling on the ground floor of the tower, shot by those two French filmmakers, is absolutely harrowing. You can see both the fear, and the determination, in their faces, as they mobilize to head upstairs. They knew that what was happening was outside the boundaries of anything they could have trained for. And they went willingly, despite that.

I have a VHS of their film I have saved to show my children when they are old enough.

217 calcajun  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:52:31am
Lord, guard and guide all those who fly
Through the great spaces in the sky.
Be with them always in the air,
In darkening storms or sunlight fair;
Oh, hear us when we lift our prayer,
For those in peril in the air!

Air Force Hymn

218 Cathypop  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:52:50am

Eight years later and I can not watch videos or look at pictures of the towers.
God bless all the people who lost their lives on 9/11/2001.

219 J.S.  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:53:15am

re: #213 Kosh's Shadow

CBC has been playing up the "It was all a conspiracy!" angle...typical...

220 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:53:17am

Coast Guard confronts boat in secure zone near Pentagon

The U.S. Coast Guard tried Friday to prevent a boat from entering a security zone on the Potomac River not far from the Pentagon, where President Obama was at an event commemorating the September 11 attacks.

There were reports on police scanners that the Coast Guard fired 10 rounds of ammunition, but those reports could not immediately be confirmed. It was not immediately clear from the reports whether they referred to warning shots.

The incident took place between the Memorial and 14th Street bridges, in a zone that had been blocked off because of the ceremonies.

221 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:53:46am

re: #219 J.S.

CBC has been playing up the "It was all a conspiracy!" angle...typical...

The Canadian Broadcorping Castration?
Figures.

222 Pianobuff  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:54:17am

NRO is reporting that the shots fired were part of a training exercise, and were not aimed at a boat.

223 Cathypop  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:54:17am

re: #213 Kosh's Shadow

looling stupid and ridiculous is normal for them

224 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:54:37am

re: #220 Killgore Trout

Coast Guard confronts boat in secure zone near Pentagon

It was a training exercise.

225 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:54:56am
226 BlueCanuck  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:55:38am

re: #221 Kosh's Shadow

The Canadian Broadcorping Castration?
Figures.

Communist Broadcast Collective. When I had cable it was always on my GAZE list for recent events, news, most political documentaries. Been like that for decades.

227 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:55:59am

re: #222 Pianobuff

NRO is reporting that the shots fired were part of a training exercise, and were not aimed at a boat.

What the hell is anybody doing holding a training exercise today?

228 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:56:00am

re: #220 Killgore Trout

Headline just changed...
Potomac security threat merely an exercise, police say

229 lostlakehiker  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:56:16am

re: #26 The Curmudgeon

We should also remember the people in the Middle East who were dancing in the streets when they got the news.

And we should also remember that in Tehran, students held a silent vigil in memory of our dead. That very day.

The regime in Iran has its backers, but as this, and other demonstrations, and the recent election they had to steal when the real count got scary, it also has its opponents. There is, within dar al Islam, a faction that understands that wanton murder of innocents by the planeload is not jihad, but wanton murder---that it does not serve to advance the faith, nor does it serve any practical purpose worthy of one of the grand clans that have shaped human history.

And so while this day we recall and renew our vow to mete out justice to the Taliban and al Qaeda, we remind ourselves that justice also must be specific, and not wanton.

230 Dreader1962  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:56:29am

re: #225 buzzsawmonkey

Interesting, in that Christopher Wren's London cathedral that withstood the blitz and became a symbol of British resistance to the Nazis is also St. Paul's.

I remember seeing that iconic photo of St. Paul's amidst the smoke and fire. A few months ago, I was in the UK and visited the cathedral. It is very impressive - one of the biggest highlights of my visit to London.

231 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:56:33am

re: #215 yma o hyd

The threat is indeed not gone.
Those jihadis who were found guilty at that trial in the UK very recently were planning to destroy eleven planes flyng to major cities in the USA.

They are the reason we can't take liquids on board airplanes. People pooh-pooh'd this at the time - but now, after the trial, it makes you shudder to think what might ahve happened, had they been successful.

agreed...I know the boat near the Pentagon incident looks to be nothing...but, I had a moment of panic because it reminds us of what they could put on a boat and what it could do...we have to be right every time...they only have to be successful once...

232 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:56:49am

And meanwhile in Israel, they get their daily reminder of jihad: 2 Katyusha rockets from Lebanon land near Nahariya

This is how hizbullah is remembering 9/11

-spit

233 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:56:50am

In memoriam:

Father Mychal Judge, O.F.M.

234 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:57:12am

re: #228 Killgore Trout

Headline just changed...
Potomac security threat merely an exercise, police say

very stupid timing and placement for a training exercise, imo.

235 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:57:16am

Drudge blames cnn: "CNN CAUSES PANIC IN DC ON 911 ANNI; 'ROUTINE COAST GUARD EXERCISE'"

236 yma o hyd  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:57:27am

re: #212 Occasional Reader

The video footage of the firefighters assembling on the ground floor of the tower, shot by those two French filmmakers, is absolutely harrowing. You can see both the fear, and the determination, in their faces, as they mobilize to head upstairs. They knew that what was happening was outside the boundaries of anything they could have trained for. And they went willingly, despite that.

Yes - exactly.
They are true heroes, as far as I'm concerned - and I've never forgiven the TIME people for not honoring them as 'Men of the Year 2001'.

237 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:57:40am

re: #234 reine.de.tout

Yeah, seems really stupid.

238 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:57:42am

re: #225 buzzsawmonkey

re: #11 Spenser (with an S)

Speaking of the children, I've posted this before, but for young kids who weren't even born when this happened and therefore it could become as removed for them as Pearl Harbor, there is a great book resource. The Little Chapel that Stood.

Interesting, in that Christopher Wren's London cathedral that withstood the blitz and became a symbol of British resistance to the Nazis is also St. Paul's.

Wow, really? Very interesting.

239 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:57:43am
240 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:57:43am

re: #199 yma o hyd

[Link: www.whoknew.us...]

242 Big Steve  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:58:01am

I remember the story of a young girl who's father was killed in 9/11. For several years after that the only TV station she would watch was the Food Channel because it was the only one she could be sure wouldn't show scenes of the WTC coming down.

243 nonic  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:58:30am

I was watching a video remembering the "jumpers"

Liveleak Video
and to my astonishment I could first SMELL and then TASTE the smoke and dust again. I wonder whether that sense memory will ever fade. :-(
244 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:59:00am

re: #232 Creeping Eruption

And meanwhile in Israel, they get their daily reminder of jihad: 2 Katyusha rockets from Lebanon land near Nahariya

This is how hizbullah is remembering 9/11

-spit

I'm sure they will be handing out candy and dancing in the streets just as they did in 2001...they have not forgotten I'm sure.

245 Spider Mensch  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:59:10am

re: #227 reine.de.tout

What the hell is anybody doing holding a training exercise today?

my thought's exactly...something more to this, but we may not be told...maybe as simple as an accidently discharged weapon? maybe more? who knows?

246 yma o hyd  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:59:20am

re: #219 J.S.

CBC has been playing up the "It was all a conspiracy!" angle...typical...

Heh.
It was a 'conspiracy' - by Al Qaeda!
But we mustn't say that ... might enrage them ...

247 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:00:05am

re: #244 Charpete67

I'm sure they will be handing out candy and dancing in the streets just as they did in 2001...

Not that the MSM would ever show us if they were.

248 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:00:17am

re: #244 Charpete67

I'm sure they will be handing out candy and dancing in the streets just as they did in 2001...they have not forgotten I'm sure.

Neither have I.

249 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:00:25am

I recall very vividly flying into Newark some time after 9/11.
I looked at the Manhattan Sky like knowing that the Towers were not there , but expecting to see them, cognitive dissonance.

250 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:00:40am

re: #233 Occasional Reader

He died while giving last rites to others who had already perished, and was officially listed as victim #1 by the NYC Medical Examiner's Office. There have been efforts to see that he is sainted for his last acts on Earth.

251 Czarny_Smok  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:00:47am

I will neither forget nor forgive. Today and every Sept 11 will be a day of remembrance, a day of sorrow, and a day that should be commemorated by all who love freedom.

God Bless the USA, our troops and our veterans.

252 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:01:02am

re: #227 reine.de.tout

What the hell is anybody doing holding a training exercise today?

And what's next - fly Air Force One over Manhattan?

253 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:01:31am
254 yma o hyd  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:01:44am

re: #231 Charpete67

agreed...I know the boat near the Pentagon incident looks to be nothing...but, I had a moment of panic because it reminds us of what they could put on a boat and what it could do...we have to be right every time...they only have to be successful once...

Just so.

It makes me despair when I read that so many 'clever' people, on both sides of the Big Pond, think we need to leave Afghanistan.
They have very short memories indeed!

255 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:01:48am

re: #225 buzzsawmonkey

Interesting, in that Christopher Wren's London cathedral that withstood the blitz and became a symbol of British resistance to the Nazis is also St. Paul's.

Sorry for being a bit cranky about this, but the "miraculous survival" story of St. Paul's (NYC) gets my anti-superstition antennae quivering. Yes, the chapel survived... and so did the mens' clothing discounter across the street, and the KFC next door, etc. etc. That BLOCK was pretty much untouched; it's more or less the boundary for the devastation on that side of the site. Yet I've met people who are convinced that somehow only this church miraculously survived, with everything around it collapsing. Not so.

256 lostlakehiker  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:02:01am

re: #177 Cato

Truther craziness persists:

[Link: www.salon.com...]

Charles Krauthammer is a level-headed guy. He's thought it through carefully, and Van Jones cannot be excused. Krauthammer's analysis

[Jones is...] In the White House no more. Why? He's gone for one reason and one reason only. You can't sign a petition demanding not one but four investigations of the charge that the Bush administration deliberately allowed Sept. 11, 2001 -- i.e., collaborated in the worst massacre ever perpetrated on American soil -- and be permitted in polite society, let alone have a high-level job in the White House.

Unlike the other stuff (see above), this is no trivial matter. It's beyond radicalism, beyond partisanship. It takes us into the realm of political psychosis, a malignant paranoia that, unlike the Marxist posturing, is not amusing. It's dangerous. In America, movements and parties are required to police their extremes. Bill Buckley did that with Birchers. Liberals need to do that with "truthers."

You can no more have a truther in the White House than you can have a Holocaust denier -- a person who creates a hallucinatory alternative reality in the service of a fathomless malice.

But reality doesn't daunt Jones's defenders. One Obama administration source told ABC that Jones hadn't read the 2004 petition carefully enough, an excuse echoed by Howard Dean.

Carefully enough? It demanded the investigation of charges "that people within the current [Bush] administration may indeed have deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war."

Where is the confusing fine print? Where is the syntactical complexity? Where is the perplexing ambiguity? An eighth-grader could tell you exactly what it means. A Yale Law School graduate could not?

257 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:02:15am
258 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:03:01am

re: #241 Pianobuff

This is Fox's report on the Coast Guard news this morning:

Coast Guard Conducts Training Exercise on Potomac
Coast Guard Chief Keith Moore said Friday no shots were fired as part of the exercise. Media reports suggested shots had been fired in the river.


Sounds like CNN may have blown this.

259 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:03:07am

CBS poll: Support for ObamaCare up 12 points since last week

Obama gave a good speech and Republicans embarrassed themselves by acting like children. Obama gets a little bump in the polls.

260 arkroyal  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:03:24am

Charles, I hate to be critical, but you need to change your verbage. These children, and all the others, were not killed that morning. They were MURDERED. All of them were innocent people MURDERED. If we sugarcoat the language, we demean their deaths.

261 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:03:29am

re: #249 opnion

I recall very vividly flying into Newark some time after 9/11.
I looked at the Manhattan Sky like knowing that the Towers were not there , but expecting to see them, cognitive dissonance.

I think that every time I drive into NYC & see the empty space where the Towers stood

262 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:04:02am

re: #247 JamesTKirk

Not that the MSM would ever show us if they were.

I think some of the MSM were dancing and handing out candy in their newsroom.
/almost

263 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:04:14am

I can speak of the horror I felt on that fateful day, I can speak of the sadness I feel because of the events that occurred on 9/11, but I speak of the resolve I feel now due to those horrible events which still haunt me today.

Never again.

I still remember the fear I felt when I heard the rumors that pervaded that there were a number attacks had happened in DC while the towers burned. I remember hearing the state department had been bombed, and cringing in fear that my father (who worked there at the time) may have been one of the casualties of this heinous act.

I remember calling him, and bursting out crying because I was able to hear his voice on the other line telling me he was ok. I remember that being the thing that brought me closer to my father; we had been oil and water for many years.

While it was a horrible day, I have the one positive memory from the day. I rediscovered my family.

My thoughts to all of those who lost their lives that day, and I reiterate from the bottom of my heart... Never again.

264 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:04:41am

re: #244 Charpete67

I'm sure they will be handing out candy and dancing in the streets just as they did in 2001...they have not forgotten I'm sure.

Hell, according to a frind of mine that happened in New Jersey.
He asy's that he saw it & I have no reason to doubt him.

265 Digital Display  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:04:54am

This is a repost from last night...
This is the anniversary of 911..A moment in time that changed all of our lives...The stories are deeply touching of 911 and reading the hundreds of posts on Veterans Day and on memorial weekend leaves all us American patriots humbled and in tears of the blood our heroes have shed for our liberty and freedom in our great land..
We throw around words like Conservative creed and liberals breathlessly and in anger and contempt to our fellow citizens...our neighbors..our friends..our fellow Americans..
I pray to God we can rise above it all for a few hours this morning...
Bless their Souls God Almighty...Heal our hearts..And destroy our enemies..

266 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:05:15am

re: #250 lawhawk

He died while giving last rites to others who had already perished, and was officially listed as victim #1 by the NYC Medical Examiner's Office. There have been efforts to see that he is sainted for his last acts on Earth.

He was also a friend of another cousin of mine, who is in his order. The fire station for which he served as chaplain is right across the street from the Church of St. Francis, on W. 34th Street.

267 wiffersnapper  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:05:20am

Fortunately I didn't know anyone that perished. But I still remember that day vividly.

Waking up for school, our house gets called by our grandparents at 7 AM (mountain), and we all are immediately glued to the tv. At school it was no different: EVERY class that day was spent watching the news. Horror filled me when I saw the last tower fall. I am so glad Bush was in office to do something about it. I certainly will never forget that day nor all the people that were murdered that day.

May their souls rest in peace, And may our troops continue to win the fight.

268 ladycatnip  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:05:24am

We will never forget those who lost their lives on 9/11 - both the innocent victims and the brave and heroic who tried to save them. God bless their families with peace and comfort today and everyday as they remember what happened to their loved ones.

269 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:06:02am
270 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:06:02am

On the Saturday of 9/11 me and a singer/guitarist I sometimes work with played a party as a duo. One of the songs we do is "Samson & Delilah" by Reverend Gary Davis (some of you might have heard the original, or the cover by the Grateful Dead.)

We started doing that song, which fortunately, starts with a fairly long instrumental intro. The chorus goes, "If I had my way, I would tear this whole building down." Realizing how inappropriate this would be, the singer/guitarist segued into a different song without singing any of S&D.

Later on that night a very pro-American British guy tipped his beer to mine and told me, "God bless America, especially right now."

271 yma o hyd  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:06:04am

re: #240 lawhawk

[Link: www.whoknew.us...]

Thanks, lawhawk!

Thats him - in the first photo!
It was only in the papers here, so I'm glad its now available on the web, for all to see

Looking at him, at the faces of the young men like him, now fighting in Afghanistan, makes one hopeful for the future.

Looking at the wastrels of their age - ah, its despair ...

272 Big Steve  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:06:23am

I was in Rotterdam Netherlands for a business meeting. So the news hit us in the afternoon. We were in a meeting where there were three Americans and about a dozen Europeans. Someone ran in the room and told us. We got on a speaker phone with my wife and as she was describing things the first tower fell. We adjourned. I remember the Dutch security guard softly crying as we checked out of the plant and when she saw from our passports that we were American she hugged us. We went back to the hotel and watched all night on CNN.

The next day our host realizing that holding meetings was pointless took us on a field trip to the huge water project in southern Netherlands. We had a tour guide, a Dutch woman, who was incredibly proud of the project. She kept repeating how the project had been done 100% with Dutch taxes. At one point, to the shame of our hosts, she turned to the three Americans in the group and said, "I bet you Americans don't know what your taxes go for." We stood looking at her dumbly and finally I replied, "I don't know where our taxes are going today but I can bet they will be in Afghanistan by the end of the month!"

273 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:06:28am

re: #259 Killgore Trout

Not now, Killgore, okay? Not in this thread.

274 RedHouseBlueState  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:06:52am

Lord, hear our prayer.

275 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:06:58am

re: #255 Occasional Reader

Sorry for being a bit cranky about this, but the "miraculous survival" story of St. Paul's (NYC) gets my anti-superstition antennae quivering. Yes, the chapel survived... and so did the mens' clothing discounter across the street, and the KFC next door, etc. etc. That BLOCK was pretty much untouched; it's more or less the boundary for the devastation on that side of the site. Yet I've met people who are convinced that somehow only this church miraculously survived, with everything around it collapsing. Not so.

The book spends very little time suggesting anything superstitious, maybe some poignancy. It's about the history that building has seen and the heroism of the firefighters.

276 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:07:04am

re: #259 Killgore Trout

CBS poll: Support for ObamaCare up 12 points since last week

Obama gave a good speech and Republicans embarrassed themselves by acting like children. Obama gets a little bump in the polls.

"A" republican embarrassed himslef. "A" republican was reprimande by both parties (as well he shoud). "A" republican apologized (which was accepted)

277 Land Shark  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:07:12am

I can still recall that horrible day vividly. Watching the towers burn and collapse, the horror at the thought of all the dead, the vulnerable feeling as words of the attack in DC and the crash in Pennsylvania came in. Still one of the worst days of my life.

May all the victims rest in peace. God bless the NYPD and FDNY personnel who risked and lost their lives trying to save people. Never forget them, and never forget the ideology that caused it. They are still out there hoping to strike us again.

278 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:07:26am

re: #259 Killgore Trout

CBS poll: Support for ObamaCare up 12 points since last week

Obama gave a good speech and Republicans embarrassed themselves by acting like children. Obama gets a little bump in the polls.

that's what you're thinking about this morning?

279 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:07:28am

re: #264 opnion

Hell, according to a frind of mine that happened in New Jersey.
He asy's that he saw it & I have no reason to doubt him.

See my #28, or Google "patterson new jersey" "dancing in the streets"

280 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:09:31am

re: #279 JamesTKirk

See my #28, or Google "patterson new jersey" "dancing in the streets"

had never seen that before...unbelievable...

281 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:09:57am

re: #275 Spenser (with an S)

The book spends very little time suggesting anything superstitious, maybe some poignancy. It's about the history that building has seen and the heroism of the firefighters.

Okay. I wasn't meaning to comment on the book, specifically, just on the related superstition that I'd heard.

282 gregb  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:10:09am

re: #115 lawhawk

>Guardian's report

I read that report too. That's why they are so desperate for the schools as it's the only way they can grow.

283 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:10:35am
284 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:11:31am

re: #277 Land Shark

God bless the NYPD and FDNY personnel who risked and lost their lives trying to save people.

Amen. And also the emergency responders at the Pentagon, and the people working in that building who helped others. (Including one Donald Rumsfeld.)

285 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:11:48am

re: #255 Occasional Reader

Sorry for being a bit cranky about this, but the "miraculous survival" story of St. Paul's (NYC) gets my anti-superstition antennae quivering. Yes, the chapel survived... and so did the mens' clothing discounter across the street, and the KFC next door, etc. etc. That BLOCK was pretty much untouched; it's more or less the boundary for the devastation on that side of the site. Yet I've met people who are convinced that somehow only this church miraculously survived, with everything around it collapsing. Not so.

Actually, another church next to Ground Zero was obliterated by falling debris. That would be St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church.

The reason that damage was limited on the East side of the complex is pretty much a geography lesson. The Twin Towers were situated towards the West Side of the WTC superblock, and the damaged buildings were mostly to the West (World Financial Center's Winter Garden took a big hit, the former Deutsche bank building on the South side (adjacent to St. Nicholas), and to the North - 7WTC and Fiterman Hall - being the worst damaged. Nearly every other building in the immediate vicinity had suffered damage of some sort - including blown out windows or debris strikes. All required mitigation of dust that was created from the pulverized towers.

286 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:12:41am

Amen, Charles, never forget them.

287 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:12:55am
288 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:13:32am

Damn, I can't get into James Lileks' site. I wanted to see what he had to say about today. He's always worth reading.

289 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:13:57am

re: #283 buzzsawmonkey

Memoranda, some still burning at the edges, flew windborne across the East River and fluttered down across South Brooklyn as far as Bensonhurst.

When the Towers suddenly collapsed, all of Lower Manhattan disappeared in a grey dust cloud which rolled across the river also.

The glow of unextinguished fires remained flickering for weeks, and you could smell the burning on the Brooklyn side.

One of the most poignant images I remember so vividly was the gianormous American flag, lit with blazing floodlights, flying proudly over the smoldering wreckage as the rescue and cleanup crews worked nonstop.

290 Land Shark  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:14:38am

re: #284 Occasional Reader

Amen. And also the emergency responders at the Pentagon, and the people working in that building who helped others. (Including one Donald Rumsfeld.)

Indeed. God bless and keep all of them. And our brave men and women in uniform, be they military, firefighters or police, volunteers each and every one of them.

291 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:14:59am

I'm going to the city right now.

Solidarity Big Apple. Solidarity.

292 yma o hyd  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:15:02am

On the other side of the Big Pond, it was the same beautiful day.
I had just come back with the dogs, when my sister rang,t ears in ehr voice, and told me to switch the telly on - now!

I did - and saw the second plane fly straight into the WTC.
Live.

These images can never be eradicated from my memory, and while I was spared your experiences of the dust, the smell, the falling bodies - the actuality of that plane hitting the building is a special horror that can never be forgotten.

293 Pianobuff  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:15:23am

More information is starting to dribble out on the anti-abortion activist that was killed earlier today. No word on who did it, but now they are reporting a 2nd homicide. Nothing definitive on whether they are linked, but there will be a press conference a little later.

Anti-abortion activist shot in front of Owosso High School


Police say second apparent homicide discovered this morning in Owosso Township

294 SFGoth  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:15:25am

This is my favorite tribute:

Youtube Video

I'll never forget that middle-aged fireman they interviewed saying he had to back into the 2nd tower. He clearly didn't relish the idea, but it was his duty. About 20 minutes later... RIP

295 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:15:55am

re: #283 buzzsawmonkey

It's the kind of indescribable smell that will haunt me as long as I live. The fires weren't put out for nearly 3 months, and you knew that the smell was akin to a funeral pyre, because many of the thousands killed were never recovered intact. Depending on how the wind blew, you could smell it in Brooklyn or New Jersey, or where I worked in the Village. It seeped into everything.

296 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:15:57am

A personal rememberence

At work that morning, with news cameras trained on the towers, I witnessed things that are literally seared into my memory. What most of you saw was truely frightening, awful, terrifying, whatever adjectives you care to use.


What I witnessed is what the networks and photographers were not allowed to show.

No, I was not on scene, but what I had to witness has left scars on me that will never heal


God Bless all those who perished
God Bless THE bravest of the brave (firemen and police and EMT's that knowingly were running TO their deaths as the citizenry were trying to run away from theirs)

and GOD DAMN the scumbags that did this. If the things that I did in my life mean I'm going to hell, I will enjoy meeting you there to extract my pound of flech

297 John Neverbend  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:16:02am

On the morning of 9/11 at the time of the terrorist attacks, I was in Denver airport, waiting to get on a flight. I returned to my hotel and sat in my hotel room feeling as if I was somehow in an alternate universe. Later that afternoon, I managed to get on a charter bus full of doctors heading back to New York. After about 30 hours, we crossed over the GWB, and I saw a pall of smoke hanging over ground zero. It took quite a few years before I stopped being conscious of the gaping hole in the sky line whenever I came into the city.

298 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:16:20am

re: #219 J.S.

CBC has been playing up the "It was all a conspiracy!" angle...typical...

Sure it was a conspiracy. It was a conspiracy of 19 jihadist hijackers and their Islamic terrorist backers (Al Qaeda).

299 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:16:27am

I woke up late that morning, jumped in and out of the shower, and turned the TV on to catch the weather. I saw a tower with smoke pouring out of it. I thought- holy hell. Then I saw the second plane strike. Just like that. My first thought was this was intentional, and I needed to go vote immediately because that's exactly what these bastards were trying to stop- freedom and democracy. Ten minutes later, I gave a finger to those fuckers, and cast a ballot.

I will never forget.

300 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:16:28am

re: #279 JamesTKirk

See my #28, or Google "patterson new jersey" "dancing in the streets"

That's it Patterson. My fried said that thet werfe whoopin & hollering, Banging pots, street dancing & screaming that Allah crap.
But, hey they're patriotic Americans./

301 Cato  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:17:24am

re: #194 Occasional Reader

Where is the difficulty in understanding that there are crazy people around?
(BTW, although he disagrees with both truthers and nirthers, Jonah Goldberg has a great piece on why trutherism is much, much nuttier.)

302 SFGoth  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:17:31am

Oh, but we must treat these medieval butchers with flowers and kindness, win their hearts and minds. I'd rather send their "souls" to Allah. Thomas Jefferson knew what to do when Muslim crazies piped up -- cry havoc and let slip loose the U.S. Marines.

304 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:18:03am

I'm curious how the troops in Afghanistan are spending this day...sometimes we forget there are thousands troops who are away from their families fighting the good fight as a result of 9/11.

305 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:18:15am

My thoughts are also with Tilly, with whom I had the privilege of exchanging messages here last year.

Tilly, if you happen through this thread, ... go with God.

306 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:18:50am

re: #304 Charpete67

I'm curious how the troops in Afghanistan are spending this day...sometimes we forget there are thousands troops who are away from their families fighting the good fight as a result of 9/11.

See #302. God Bless em'

307 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:18:56am

I didn't think it was possible, but the comments on DU today are more insane than they usually are. And there's all kinds of 9/11 posts.

308 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:19:00am
309 Cato  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:19:07am

re: #256 lostlakehiker

Krauthammer and VDH are always worthwhile.

310 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:19:29am

re: #303 JamesTKirk

New York's Sept 11 museum to display hijacker perspective

[DELETED]

311 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:19:44am
312 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:19:47am

re: #303 JamesTKirk

New York's Sept 11 museum to display hijacker perspective

If it's done right, it could actually be a good thing. I have a sinking feeling they're NOT going to do it right.

313 MikeAlv77  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:20:10am

re: #247 JamesTKirk

Not that the MSM would ever show us if they were.

Hey Kirk,

Can't you order Sulu to do something about that...

314 chicagodudewhotrades  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:20:31am

On that morning I was on the trading floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange (yes, the NYSE and other markets never opened that terrible day, but CME currency trading opens here at 0720 Chicago time) There is a big TV in the corner of the trading floor that is always turned on to CNBC. A co-worker had walked up to my desk and dropped off a filled order whose price I was punching into the computer when he said "hey, look at that" I looked up and he was looking at the TV. I saw that the headline was something about a plane colliding into the WTC in NYC. Like many people, my initial thought was this was aviation mistake, you know, a plane with mechanical difficulty/ navigation problems crashing. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case. As the morning progressed, we were actually pretty busy on the trading floor since we were the only place in the US that was open and trading. I'm kinda glad we were busy, because if I had been watching the big TV in the corner, I may have walked out of the building like a few co-workers were doing. Finally, the word came down from CME leadership that the open currency markets would be getting shut down and closed and the entire CME complex evac'd. When the word came in to wrap up everything and get off the floor, that is when I started getting nervous. I started paying attention to the big TV in the corner to catch up with what was going on. By then, the first tower had fallen and I realized finally just how bad this attack was. I was told to bundle up all the trading paperwork in boxes and take it over to the back office a few blocks away and then go home. I saw my desk manager just tossing all the trades and paperwork into a box, which I thought was kinda funny for a second because he was always on us to handle the paperwork carefully and keep everything organized. However, another glance up at the TV wiped any funny thoughts out of my head. I grabbed a box or two and walked over to the back office and then caught the bus home. Chicago's downtown was basically shut down. Everybody was going home. The bus was packed. I got home and talked to my mom about what happened (she was at home recovering from cancer treatment) I finally got fully caught up on what had happened and the scale of the attack. Just a few thoughts that I'll never forget from that day.

315 J.S.  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:20:36am

re: #298 Honorary Yooper

(that's clearly not what the broadcaster is playing up -- it's "The Islamists/Muslims are all innocent; Americans are evil and they got what they deserved." It's basically the same thing you can read in the NYTimes -- New York was "humbled" on 9/11 -- that's in today's paper, btw. )

316 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:20:36am

The Thruthers are going to freak out about the Coast Guard training exercise thing.

317 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:20:52am

re: #303 JamesTKirk

New York's Sept 11 museum to display hijacker perspective

maybe they should replace the urinal cakes with pictures of the hijackers...that would work for me...

318 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:21:05am

re: #308 bloodstar

Have you read the rules at the top of this thread about "Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal."

You comment is way out of line.

319 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:21:19am

re: #311 buzzsawmonkey

The lack of media added to the weeks-long feeling of being in a war zone

This ain't no party
this ain't no disco
this ain't no foolin' around

320 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:22:16am

re: #310 Kosh's Shadow

I think that's a good thing. It will highlight the religious motivation for the attack.

321 yma o hyd  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:22:26am

re: #303 JamesTKirk

New York's Sept 11 museum to display hijacker perspective

Have they taken leave of their senses?

See this (from that link):

'As an example of what will be included, Daniels said the 1979 invasion of the Soviet Union by Afghanistan was vital in understanding "the roots of Al Qaeda."'

That is such ahistoric crap, words fail me!

But it plays nicely for the LLL and the moonbats, who'd have us all beg forgiveness to al qaeda, for making them commit thse crimes ...

*Spit*

322 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:22:45am

re: #319 Occasional Reader

This ain't no party
this ain't no disco
this ain't no foolin' around

Transmit the message
to the receiver
Hope for an answer someday.

I got three passports
Couple of visas,
I don't even know my own name.

323 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:22:57am

I passed an elementary school on my way to work on my bicycle this morning. The kids were all inside, the principal's voice was on the loudspeaker, saying that we are remembering the attacks on this day eight years ago, mentioning each of the four planes, and then asking for a moment of silence. I slowed down enough that I was still on their block when it was over. Five to 12 year olds--they will not forget.

324 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:23:02am

re: #316 Killgore Trout

The Thruthers are going to freak out about the Coast Guard training exercise thing.

They freak out about EVERYthing.

325 MikeAlv77  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:23:15am

re: #296 sattv4u2

A personal rememberence


and GOD DAMN the scumbags that did this. If the things that I did in my life mean I'm going to hell, I will enjoy meeting you there to extract my pound of flech

Oh don't you worry. I would like to see when those 19 a$$holes opened their eyes, saw the almighty standing in front of them and then where judged for what they did. They were damned for all eternity... Of that I am sure.

326 BothAndWorld  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:23:35am

Never Forget

327 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:23:38am

re: #303 JamesTKirk

New York's Sept 11 museum to display hijacker perspective

I am not a religious person by any means, but I hope that the images the museum shows are of these cowards burning in hell.

If this message gets deleted, oh well, but the anger I feel gives me the strength to post this.

328 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:23:47am

re: #295 lawhawk

It's the kind of indescribable smell that will haunt me as long as I live. The fires weren't put out for nearly 3 months, and you knew that the smell was akin to a funeral pyre, because many of the thousands killed were never recovered intact. Depending on how the wind blew, you could smell it in Brooklyn or New Jersey, or where I worked in the Village. It seeped into everything.

I remember that smell. I don't think I'll ever forget it.

329 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:23:51am

re: #50 SurferDoc

A note to the Troofers: When we remember this day, at some level we also realize why we hold you and your crackpot bullshit in such contempt.

Your many stupidities trivialize the sacrifice of so many who are your betters. They were heroes. You are fools.

May they rot in hell.

330 J.S.  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:24:14am

re: #321 yma o hyd

That's precisely the attitude -- it's standing history/reason/justice on its head. It makes the guilty innocent, and the innocent guilty.

331 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:24:25am

re: #311 buzzsawmonkey

Phone lines--both land and cell--were jammed that day

I finally got a message to my family in Westchester that I was okay, by calling a friend in Colorado, who called them. Seems the north/south phone line trunks were more overloaded than the east/west ones, something like that.

332 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:24:40am

re: #325 MikeAlv77

Oh don't you worry. I would like to see when those 19 a$$holes opened their eyes, saw the almighty standing in front of them and then where judged for what they did. They were damned for all eternity... Of that I am sure.

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

333 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:24:42am

re: #318 Walter L. Newton

Have you read the rules at the top of this thread about "Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal."

You comment is way out of line.

If My comments are way out of line then I apologize, I was writing from my prospective and how I felt at the time.

I want us to make sure the people (The Taliban and Al Queda) who did this to us don't win. that's all

334 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:25:03am

re: #303 JamesTKirk

New York's Sept 11 museum to display hijacker perspective

Not as bad as the headline would suggest, but this caught my eye:

As an example of what will be included, Daniels said the 1979 invasion of the Soviet Union by Afghanistan was vital in understanding "the roots of Al Qaeda."

More important to the rise of Al Qaeda was the takeover of the Grand Mosque in Mecca by islamic radicals that same year. That marked the beginning of the Saudi's accommodating their radicals for fear of losing their power.

335 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:25:22am

re: #323 wrenchwench

I passed an elementary school on my way to work on my bicycle this morning. The kids were all inside, the principal's voice was on the loudspeaker, saying that we are remembering the attacks on this day eight years ago, mentioning each of the four planes, and then asking for a moment of silence. I slowed down enough that I was still on their block when it was over. Five to 12 year olds--they will not forget.

that is good to hear!

336 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:25:38am

re: #317 Charpete67

maybe they should replace the urinal cakes with pictures of the hijackers...that would work for me...

But then they'd get in trouble for putting a deuce in the urinal.

337 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:25:50am

re: #323 wrenchwench

I hope that my kid's school does something similar but we already started this morning and will continue this evening.

338 McJenny50  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:25:52am

re: #89 Athens Runaway

OT: Where in Ohio? Also good to see other Buckeye-dwelling Lizards.

Here's another one from the Lima/Findlay area.

339 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:25:58am

re: #333 bloodstar

If My comments are way out of line then I apologize, I was writing from my prospective and how I felt at the time.

I found some of the actual comments that I wrote at the time. I didn't think it would be a good idea to repost them here, regardless of how much I still agree with them.

340 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:27:06am

re: #316 Killgore Trout

The Thruthers are going to freak out about the Coast Guard training exercise thing.

What about the nirthers? I bet they're already saying that the Coast Guard was ordered to destroy that boat (by Obama) because people with the real nirth certificate had it and we'reon their way to deliver it to officials in Washington!

341 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:27:21am

re: #242 Big Steve

I remember the story of a young girl who's father was killed in 9/11. For several years after that the only TV station she would watch was the Food Channel because it was the only one she could be sure wouldn't show scenes of the WTC coming down.

God. The poor child.

342 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:27:41am

re: #336 Kosh's Shadow

But then they'd get in trouble for putting a deuce in the urinal.

Cheers to South Park for being one of the only voices in the entertainment field to call 9/11 what it was.

343 SFGoth  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:27:58am

re: #308 bloodstar

I remember saying and still believe down in my heart that We should have gone into Afghanistan exploded one high over head, and made it very clear that we'd be willing to use whatever military means, including nuclear weapons, in order to ensure the people and nation (Afghanistan) responsible for this will never be able to threaten us again.

Nukes are kind of useless in mountainous terrain like Afghanistan.

344 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:28:03am

re: #336 Kosh's Shadow

But then they'd get in trouble for putting a deuce in the urinal.

coffee spew...

345 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:28:04am

re: #319 Occasional Reader

This ain't no party
this ain't no disco
this ain't no foolin' around

I live near a reserve training area, and some mornings the sounds travel quite well. 9/11 gave a different meaning to the sound of their training.
The sound of gunfire
off in the distance
I'm getting used to it now

346 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:28:11am

After I voted, I went down the street to a little coffee shop I frequented to get a cup of coffee while waiting for the bus. They, of course, had the news on- and we all watched the first tower collapse on live television. I couldn't stop saying, "Oh my God". All I could think about were all the people on the street.

Then it happened. Someone in the shop said, "Someone will pay for this." The girl behind the counter said, "We had this coming". Not even two minutes had passed, and who knew how many people we'd witnessed die on live television for the second time that morning.

I never went back to that shop. To her and all the people like her- may God have more mercy on them than they had for their fellow citizens and this country because all I have for you is disgust.

347 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:28:47am

re: #249 opnion

I recall very vividly flying into Newark some time after 9/11.
I looked at the Manhattan Sky like knowing that the Towers were not there , but expecting to see them, cognitive dissonance.

For years I used to start crying at the opening credits of "Spin City" when I saw the towers. Stupid show to cry over.

348 yma o hyd  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:29:09am

re: #334 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

More important to the rise of Al Qaeda was the takeover of the Grand Mosque in Mecca by islamic radicals that same year. That marked the beginning of the Saudi's accommodating their radicals for fear of losing their power.

Even more important was the 'Muslim Brotherhood', started in Egypt in the 1920s, iirc - and then expanded by an Egyptian (who is dead now) after his visit to the USA - on an exchange visit to study.

OBL got in with that crowd while still in the Magic Kingdom, even before he went to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets.

349 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:29:24am

re: #233 Occasional Reader

In memoriam:

Father Mychal Judge, O.F.M.

A great man.

350 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:29:25am
351 opnion  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:29:26am

One of the most infuriating moments post 9/11 was when a rep of CAIR was being interviewed after 9/11 on MSNBC. He called this a"teachable" moment about Islam.
If he knew more about Islam 9/11 might have been prevented , but that's
not what he meant.
He also referred to the incident as 'Regrettable", but you know America supports Israel & there is poverty in the Middle East.
He needed a kick in the ass.

352 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:29:26am

re: #346 Sharmuta

I'm not ordinarily a violent person, but I'm not entirely sure I would've been able to restrain my sudden impulse to just hit someone if I had been there.

353 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:29:28am

re: #336 Kosh's Shadow

But then they'd get in trouble for putting a deuce in the urinal.

...actually my idea could never happen these days...too close to water boarding...

354 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:29:41am

re: #347 SanFranciscoZionist

For years I used to start crying at the opening credits of "Spin City" when I saw the towers. Stupid show to cry over.

I cry almost every time I see the Towers in an old movie.

355 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:29:42am

re: #342 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Cheers to South Park for being one of the only voices in the entertainment field to call 9/11 what it was.

My brother (who was in DC on 9/11, on the last day of the job he had at the time) told me the first time he laughed since the attacks was the SP Bin Laden/Stevie Nicks episode.

356 Tarkus289  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:30:00am

I have not, nor ever will forget.
I watched them being built, I could not wait until they were completed.
I miss them, and all who occupied them.
My avatar is only an emblem of my everlasting memory.

357 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:30:18am

re: #352 thedopefishlives

I'm not ordinarily a violent person, but I'm not entirely sure I would've been able to restrain my sudden impulse to just hit someone if I had been there.

Like I said- I didn't go back. There's a reason.

358 yma o hyd  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:31:15am

re: #350 buzzsawmonkey

If I ran the 9/11 Memorial Commission, this is what it would be:

A plaza paved in terrazzo as a to-scale map of Lower Manhattan, with the Towers reproduced to scale in stainless steel--showing the debris of both planes where they hit.

An eternal flame in each tower.

The Towers surrounded, for a radius of 5 blocks, with to-scale reproductions in bronze of all the buildings there. The remainder of the blocks would be represented by bronze blocks in the terrazzo.

A scattering of bronze flakes in the terrazzo towards the Brooklyn side, showing the path of the memoranda that scattered on the wind.

The names of all the dead--victims and rescuers--carved in granite on the perimeter retaining wall.

The names of the hijackers let into the pavement at the entrance to the memorial, so that they would be walked on by everyone who entered.

That is not just excellent, that is beautiful!
(Especially the last paragraph!)

359 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:31:23am

re: #352 thedopefishlives

I'm not ordinarily a violent person, but I'm not entirely sure I would've been able to restrain my sudden impulse to just hit someone if I had been there.

At the very least, I might have let the management know precisely why I was never returning to the shop, and why I was recommending that my friends get coffee elsewhere as well.

360 moonflower  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:31:25am

I will never forget what happened 8 years ago.

Let's roll!

Prayers for all those who were lost and their families and friends.

361 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:31:30am

re: #354 Sharmuta

I cry almost every time I see the Towers in an old movie.

There's an (older by now) video game series called Red Alert, from EA Games (originally Westwood Studios). The version that was new at the time had a mission featuring the Twin Towers.

The game was pulled from the shelves shortly after 9/11, for obvious reasons. I'm not sure if they reworked it to remove that game content or not. I haven't had the heart to go back and replay it the way it was.

362 SFGoth  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:31:47am

I was sick and disgusted with the Bushes' kowtowing to Muslims and the Saudis specifically, and now, well, unfortunately no one can tell President Chamberlain, "it's time for you to go".

363 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:31:56am

re: #342 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Cheers to South Park for being one of the only voices in the entertainment field to call 9/11 what it was.

Well, the same people also brought us "Team America: World Police"
America, Fuck, yeah!

364 Danny  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:32:16am

re: #333 bloodstar

If My comments are way out of line then I apologize, I was writing from my prospective and how I felt at the time.

I want us to make sure the people (The Taliban and Al Queda) who did this to us don't win. that's all

Taken in context, they were not out of line in my opinion.

365 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:32:37am

re: #346 Sharmuta

The girl behind the counter said, "We had this coming". Not even two minutes had passed, and who knew how many people we'd witnessed die on live television for the second time that morning.

We went to church that night to pray and a woman said "We've been supplying weapons to the world for years now and this is what it's come to." The fires were still burning and this is your first thought?! Staggering.

366 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:32:55am

re: #331 Occasional Reader

I recall telling coworkers to try overseas news outlets, because all the local news sites in NYC were down whether it was the Post, Daily News, NYT, or local tv stations, everything was completely overwhelmed and overloaded. JPost and BBC and Sky News was how I found out about the carnage at the Pentagon and the fourth plane that crashed in PA.

And when the towers came down, the radio and tv stations blacked out. It took several weeks before backup transmitters were installed or upgraded to handle the traffic at the Empire State Building.

Then, for the next few days, there was an eerie sense of things in NYC. You had emergency crews racing all about and people stood and saluted when each and every one passed with grim determination. The skies were remarkably clear - but for the pyre at Ground Zero. There were no planes in the sky except for a select few - the combat air cover that now patrolled and the military helicopters sent in to help with recovery and rescue efforts. Everywhere else it was silent - clear skies.

But to this day, if a plane or helicopter sounds just a bit too close to the ground, I always turn around looking for it...

367 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:33:17am

re: #348 yma o hyd

Even more important was the 'Muslim Brotherhood', started in Egypt in the 1920s, iirc - and then expanded by an Egyptian (who is dead now) after his visit to the USA - on an exchange visit to study.

OBL got in with that crowd while still in the Magic Kingdom, even before he went to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets.

Ah yes, Mr. Qutb. Who, after witnessing the unbridled hedonism of a midwestern church social in the 1940s (people put sugar in their iced tea & salted watermelons!), decided that America was the tool of the Devil & needed to be destroyed.

368 Land Shark  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:33:27am

re: #347 SanFranciscoZionist

Funny you would say that. Some weeks ago me and the wife had our nieces over for the weekend while their parents took a short vacation. We watched Home Alone II with them, the one that happens in New York City, and then the scene with the World Trade Center came on and I came close to tears at seeing them. All I could think about was that day. I had to go to the next room to regain my composure.

369 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:33:32am

re: #353 Charpete67

...actually my idea could never happen these days...too close to water boarding...

It would be better to put the terrorists' faces in the toilet bowls or on toilet paper. Put 'em on urinal cakes, and you're denying female visitors the opportunity to piss on 'em.

You sexist you.

370 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:34:55am

re: #365 Spenser (with an S)

We went to church that night to pray and a woman said "We've been supplying weapons to the world for years now and this is what it's come to." The fires were still burning and this is your first thought?! Staggering.

I heard crap like that at the time from my ex. Was so happy she was my ex. (If she hadn't already been...)

371 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:35:40am

I remember some time that week watching the endless news coverage. One crawl announced that Britney Spears was cancelling her world tour. I just had to laugh out loud at the absurdity of that news.

372 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:35:53am

re: #369 JamesTKirk

It would be better to put the terrorists' faces in the toilet bowls or on toilet paper. Put 'em on urinal cakes, and you're denying female visitors the opportunity to piss on 'em.

You sexist you.

...sorry...I do like the toilet paper thing...it's so PC.../

373 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:36:31am
374 yma o hyd  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:36:44am

re: #366 lawhawk

There's one more thing I shall never forget.

The Beeb showed us the New Yorkers staning in the streets, in places much further away from the Twin Towers.
They were applauding every single fire engine that raced through their street.

I cried.

375 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:37:07am
376 MikeAlv77  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:37:13am

For the hijackers on this date, I always think of a quote from the movie Heavy Metal...

He is just a low-down, - double-dealing, backstabbing,
larcenous, perverted worm!

Hanging is too good for him!
Burning is too good for him!

He should be torn into little pieces and buried alive!

377 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:37:17am

re: #369 JamesTKirk

It would be better to put the terrorists' faces in the toilet bowls or on toilet paper. Put 'em on urinal cakes, and you're denying female visitors the opportunity to piss on 'em.

You sexist you.

Toilet paper? Do you know how many trees have to be destroyed to make that stuff? Has Sheryl Crow taught us nothing?
/

378 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:38:14am

re: #365 Spenser (with an S)

We went to church that night to pray and a woman said "We've been supplying weapons to the world for years now and this is what it's come to." The fires were still burning and this is your first thought?! Staggering.

I just couldn't believe anyone would have the the depravity to say something like "we had it coming" within minutes of the tower falling. And even though I witnessed that depravity- I can still hardly believe it.

379 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:38:46am

re: #367 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Ah yes, Mr. Qutb. Who, after witnessing the unbridled hedonism of a midwestern church social in the 1940s (people put sugar in their iced tea & salted watermelons!), decided that America was the tool of the Devil & needed to be destroyed.

And he couldn't get a good haircut here either.
IIRC, that REALLY pissed him off.

380 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:38:51am

re: #375 TwinkietheKid

The proper "PC" way of remembering 9/11 is to contemplate our differences and try to understand why they act the way they do. It is, after all, our fault that they hate us so. Then go plant a tree.

that'll show 'em...

381 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:39:55am
382 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:41:09am

I remember some guys on a bbs I'm a member of posting that there's no way they would let that happen if they were on one of those planes. I replied that they reminded me of that Eddie Murphy routine where his friends bragged that they would never let any slave master order them around. "I'd say 'Suck my dick!' Then I'd drive away in my Lincoln!"

383 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:42:53am

re: #379 pre-Boomer Marine brat

And he couldn't get a good haircut here either.
IIRC, that REALLY pissed him off.

Now I shall add ... it "Greeley" pissed him off.

/humor will help me make it through today.

384 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:42:54am

The first time I really laughed after 9/11 came when I read this from The Onion.

"I was promised I would spend eternity in Paradise, being fed honeyed cakes by 67 virgins in a tree-lined garden, if only I would fly the airplane into one of the Twin Towers," said Mohammed Atta, one of the hijackers of American Airlines Flight 11, between attempts to vomit up the wasps, hornets, and live coals infesting his stomach. "But instead, I am fed the boiling feces of traitors by malicious, laughing Ifrit. Is this to be my reward for destroying the enemies of my faith?"

The rest of Atta's words turned to raw-throated shrieks, as a tusked, asp-tongued demon burst his eyeballs and drank the fluid that ran down his face.

According to Hell sources, the 19 eternally damned terrorists have struggled to understand why they have been subjected to soul-withering, infernal torture ever since their Sept. 11 arrival.

That was quickly followed by G-d's clarification of "Thou shalt not kill".

385 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:44:40am

re: #382 Mad Al-Jaffee

I remember some guys on a bbs I'm a member of posting that there's no way they would let that happen if they were on one of those planes. I replied that they reminded me of that Eddie Murphy routine where his friends bragged that they would never let any slave master order them around. "I'd say 'Suck my dick!' Then I'd drive away in my Lincoln!"

Michael Moore said that 9/11 wouldn't have happened if more of the passengers had been black; but we whiteys are all "scaredy cats".

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

386 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:44:49am

re: #384 lawhawk

I just imagine the hijackers spending eternity feeling themselves getting ripped apart and burned to death, along with feeling the pain of all those they killed, over and over and over again, for eternity.
And that's on the easy days.

387 Dianna  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:45:33am

They've hung the banners with the names of the dead at AT&T Park.

I'm going to stop there on my way home.

388 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:46:25am

re: #382 Mad Al-Jaffee


I remember some guys on a bbs I'm a member of posting that there's no way they would let that happen if they were on one of those planes. I replied that they reminded me of that Eddie Murphy routine where his friends bragged that they would never let any slave master order them around. "I'd say 'Suck my dick!' Then I'd drive away in my Lincoln!

It's true. Even the heroes on Flight 93 needed a) a crucial bit of time and b) the new knowledge that these flights were not being ransomed, but used as weapons.

389 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:46:35am

These events brought on some emotions that are still with me today. I am still mad..mad as hell...every time I think about 9-11. Every time I see an image that reminds of that day...the twin towers...the pentagon...It brings that anger back up inside of me. But, the aftermath also brought out a renewed pride in our country. I still fly my flag everyday and take it down every night. I never did that before...only on holidays. I have flags on all my vehicles and work trucks. I am still extremely proud of the USA and what is stands for.

So, for this American, the acts of these vile and evil scumbags did not make me cower in fear, did not make me loose my faith in the ideals of this country...it strengthened them.

390 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:46:59am

While we're all remembering what happened and where we were that fateful day eight years ago, there are those letting their bigotry fly on an entirely different blog. While I have nothing but digust for those who perpetrated this crime, this act of war (the 19 and AQ), I see no need for bigotry. Bigotry gets us nowhere.

391 charles_martel  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:48:53am

Greetings from New York City. I was here that day and saw the horror with my own eyes. It is a day I will never forget as long as I live. At that time, my father worked in WTC. And as I saw Tower 1 collapse, I was convinced I was watching my father die before my eyes. Fortunately, I found out that he took that day off. He never takes days off -- he had six months of accrued time off! But for some reason, he decided to see the doctor that day.

This is just one of many such stories I heard from friends in the city. Someone deciding, spur of the moment, to go get a bagel, and missed the impact. Another person deciding last minute to cancel a meeting on an impact floor. All stories from friends of mine and my wife's.

Where was God that day? He saved many. He allowed many to escape the building before it collapsed. He kept the sea wall from collapsing, which would have flooded the entire subway system.

It was very bad, but it could have been a lot worse. I pray for peace for the victims and their loved ones.

392 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:49:09am

re: #388 Spenser (with an S)

It's true. Even the heroes on Flight 93 needed a) a crucial bit of time and b) the new knowledge that these flights were not being ransomed, but used as weapons.

Yeah, but that flight still crashed. These guys were posting about how they would fight back, kill the hijackers with thier bare hands and save everyone.

393 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:49:14am

re: #342 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Cheers to South Park for being one of the only voices in the entertainment field to call 9/11 what it was.

The South Park "Bin Laden Has Farty Pants" episode was in the grand tradition of the Warner Bros. World War II cartoons.

394 Charpete67  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:49:57am

re: #377 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Toilet paper? Do you know how many trees have to be destroyed to make that stuff? Has Sheryl Crow taught us nothing?
/

Image: 2669024265_3b730bc583_o.jpg

395 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:50:25am

re: #391 charles_martel

Greetings from New York City. I was here that day and saw the horror with my own eyes. It is a day I will never forget as long as I live. At that time, my father worked in WTC. And as I saw Tower 1 collapse, I was convinced I was watching my father die before my eyes. Fortunately, I found out that he took that day off. He never takes days off -- he had six months of accrued time off! But for some reason, he decided to see the doctor that day.

This is just one of many such stories I heard from friends in the city. Someone deciding, spur of the moment, to go get a bagel, and missed the impact. Another person deciding last minute to cancel a meeting on an impact floor. All stories from friends of mine and my wife's.

Where was God that day? He saved many. He allowed many to escape the building before it collapsed. He kept the sea wall from collapsing, which would have flooded the entire subway system.

It was very bad, but it could have been a lot worse. I pray for peace for the victims and their loved ones.

Well, if someone showed up for a meeting my cousin had in the north tower, he would have been in that building at the time it came down. No one showed up for the meeting and he left at 9:06am.

396 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:50:35am

re: #385 JamesTKirk

Michael Moore said that 9/11 wouldn't have happened if more of the passengers had been black; but we whiteys are all "scaredy cats".

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

And of course, Fat Mikey also famously said that the terrorists had attacked the wrong cities. We're liberals here! You're not supposed to attack us!

397 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:51:26am

re: #339 JamesTKirk

I found some of the actual comments that I wrote at the time. I didn't think it would be a good idea to repost them here, regardless of how much I still agree with them.

re: #364 Danny

Taken in context, they were not out of line in my opinion.

Thank you, I just very emotional about that day. and that leads me to intemperate remarks.

I still remember trying to sign up, and being told by the air force that I was too old, The Army would have taken me but heart conditions tend to rule that out, even if under control it seems. *sigh*

And everyone in the military has my respect and undying support, because their willingness to fight and die for this country gives all of us the chance to agree or disagree, to argue or debate, to decide the course of this Great Country. I believe that the vast majority of America would agree with me. And the tiny minorities who cast aspersions on our military aren't grateful enough for living in a country that gives them the freedom to do so.

398 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:52:03am

re: #385 JamesTKirk

Michael Moore said that 9/11 wouldn't have happened if more of the passengers had been black; but we whiteys are all "scaredy cats".

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Michael Moore

399 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:53:12am

re: #396 Occasional Reader

And of course, Fat Mikey also famously said that the terrorists had attacked the wrong cities. We're liberals here! You're not supposed to attack us!

He later took that rant down without ever addressing it or apologizing for it, hoping it would disappear down the memory hole. It didn't -- his words are saved and addressed on many other sites.

400 J.S.  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:53:18am

re: #396 Occasional Reader

Thanks to the "Team America" flick, I can't help but thinking of Michael Moore as the suicide terrorist bomber of Mount Rushmore...

401 Dianna  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:53:21am

re: #392 Mad Al-Jaffee

Yeah, but that flight still crashed. These guys were posting about how they would fight back, kill the hijackers with thier bare hands and save everyone.

Could any of them pilot a plane?

402 Dreader1962  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:54:52am

re: #275 Spenser (with an S)

The book spends very little time suggesting anything superstitious, maybe some poignancy. It's about the history that building has seen and the heroism of the firefighters.

Also, during my trip to London I saw many scars on buildings and statues that were from The Blitz. I don't attribute any superstition to the building surviving (I'm an atheist), but it is an impressive structure and Londoners were encouraged by these monuments surviving when so many buildings and lives were being lost.

403 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:55:18am

re: #392 Mad Al-Jaffee

Yeah, but that flight still crashed. These guys were posting about how they would fight back, kill the hijackers with thier bare hands and save everyone.

Hell, I'd have done that, THEN piloted the plane to Afghanistan, landed, and gone out and killed the entire al Qaeda command structure, using nothing more than the spork they gave me with my in-flight meal!

404 Kragarghazi  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:55:39am

Rockets hit Israel from Lebanon

Tyre, Lebanon (Reuters) - At least two rockets from Lebanon struck northern Israel on Friday, prompting Israeli artillery to shell the fruit groves from which they were fired, security officials on both sides of the border said.

No casualties were immediately reported by Israeli police, who said two rockets landed. Lebanese security sources, who reported at least two outgoing missiles and 15 incoming Israeli shells, did not say who may have fired the rockets.

Israeli television later reported a third missile damaged an electricity pylon.

An Israeli military spokesman said there were several rockets but no casualties and confirmed the Israeli army returned fire. The Israeli army holds the Lebanese government responsible, the spokesman said.

U.N. peacekeepers in Lebanon and the Lebanese army deployed extra troops to prevent any escalation, a spokeswoman for the UNIFIL peacekeeping force said.

"UNIFIL is in contact with both sides, urging them to exercise maximum restraint, uphold the cessations of hostilities and avoid taking steps which would lead to further escalation," Yasmina Bouziane said. UNIFIL was investigating the incident.

Perhaps we should unleash the rainbows of happiness and magic pixie dust to settle the situation.

405 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:57:19am

re: #401 Dianna

Could any of them pilot a plane?

Unknown, but if they could've gotten in contact with flight control, they could've been instructed on the spot how to land.

Point is, they fought back rather than let the jihadists crash their flight into another building thus saving tens, hundred, maybe thousands of innocents on the ground.

406 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:57:57am

re: #403 Occasional Reader

Hell, I'd have done that, THEN piloted the plane to Afghanistan, landed, and gone out and killed the entire al Qaeda command structure, using nothing more than the spork they gave me with my in-flight meal!

That sounds like the plot of a Steven Segal movie.

407 Summersong  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:58:24am

re: #378 Sharmuta

I just couldn't believe anyone would have the the depravity to say something like "we had it coming" within minutes of the tower falling. And even though I witnessed that depravity- I can still hardly believe it.

And yet we are often told, "the whole world was behind America that day".
I've heard it here many times. It isn't true.

408 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:58:32am

re: #388 Spenser (with an S)

It's true. Even the heroes on Flight 93 needed a) a crucial bit of time and b) the new knowledge that these flights were not being ransomed, but used as weapons.

God Bless them.

As much as my thoughts are will all the victims, all the families- those of United 93 hold a special place in my heart. Heroes...

There are no words I can use to describe the sadness and pride I feel at the thought of them.

There is a flight 93 memorial already built- small and simple. It's located at the Mall of America, and I've seen it. Hardly seems fitting, but it's still beautiful... Perhaps it is fitting- it sits in a building that arguably symbolizes American capitalism, much like the Towers did. But it hardly seems fitting- nothing is worthy enough, imo, for those heroes.

409 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:58:53am

re: #402 Dreader1962

Also, during my trip to London I saw many scars on buildings and statues that were from The Blitz. I don't attribute any superstition to the building surviving (I'm an atheist), but it is an impressive structure and Londoners were encouraged by these monuments surviving when so many buildings and lives were being lost.

I took a walking tour of "Dicken's London" when I lived there. The guide was taking us around the Bloombury section of the city. He was telling us about the buildings. Then, we turned the corner and I have forgotten the street name, but there was an entire row of more "modern" buildings that seemed out of place. Someone asked about them and he just turned around and said, "buzz-bomb". If you go to the City of London, the center, there are very few older buildings. Just Saint Paul's and the Tower...the rest of the City was flattened during the blitz.

410 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:59:21am

re: #408 Sharmuta

God Bless them.

As much as my thoughts are will all the victims, all the families- those of United 93 hold a special place in my heart. Heroes...

There are no words I can use to describe the sadness and pride I feel at the thought of them.

There is a flight 93 memorial already built- small and simple. It's located at the Mall of America, and I've seen it. Hardly seems fitting, but it's still beautiful... Perhaps it is fitting- it sits in a building that arguably symbolizes American capitalism, much like the Towers did. But it hardly seems fitting- nothing is worthy enough, imo, for those heroes.

There's a memorial at the Mall of America? I know where I'm going this weekend.

411 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:59:55am

re: #407 Summersong

And yet we are often told, "the whole world was behind America that day". I've heard it here many times. It isn't true.

Neither is the common next phrase, "until Bush squandered it", true.

412 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:59:59am

re: #407 Summersong

And yet we are often told, "the whole world was behind America that day".
I've heard it here many times. It isn't true.

Many still rejoice on this day. Some of them even live here in the USA.

413 Danny  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:01:27am

re: #385 JamesTKirk

Michael Moore said that 9/11 wouldn't have happened if more of the passengers had been black; but we whiteys are all "scaredy cats".

There's no shortage of idiotarian fools one can bring to mind on 9-11. Moore, Churchill, Chomsky, Fisk, Sontag...many others. I'm simply not going to waste one ounce of thought on them on this day. Tomorrow, next week... any other day, sure, I'll loathe them for what they think, say or do. Today is for the 9-11 victims and their families.

414 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:02:41am

re: #410 thedopefishlives

There's a memorial at the Mall of America? I know where I'm going this weekend.

Notable attractions

United Airlines Flight 93 memorial, for those who died aboard during the September 11, 2001 attacks -- the bust of Tom Burnett is on the west side of the first floor, next to the fountain in front of Nordstrom.

415 Dianna  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:02:41am

re: #405 Honorary Yooper

The passengers on Flight 93 were heroic, no matter what. Your point is well-taken, and should never be forgotten.

However, the comment I was addressing was the empty boasting of the folks on the bbs. Who should thank whatever deity they believe in fasting that they have not ever been faced with that moment.

416 debutaunt  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:03:22am

re: #53 JamesTKirk

I'm actually pleasantly surprised that I haven't heard from any troofers yet today.

Perhaps they do feel shame.

417 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:04:04am

re: #354 Sharmuta

I cry almost every time I see the Towers in an old movie.

One of their most jarring movie appearances is in the last act of Spielberg/Kubrick's "A.I." which is set thousands of years in the future.

418 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:04:37am

re: #416 debutaunt

Perhaps they do feel shame.

Perhaps they're busy raising money for ron paul.

419 Dianna  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:05:54am

re: #418 Sharmuta

Perhaps they're busy raising money for ron paul.

*snort*

420 yma o hyd  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:05:59am

re: #418 Sharmuta

Perhaps they're busy raising money for ron paul.

Perhaps they're still fast asleep ...

421 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:06:39am

re: #417 Dar ul Harb

One of their most jarring movie appearances is in the last act of Spielberg/Kubrick's "A.I." which is set thousands of years in the future.

Last episode of "Fringe" depicts an alternate reality in which the Towers still stand, but the White House was attacked.

422 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:06:40am

re: #420 yma o hyd

Perhaps they're still fast asleep ...

Not like they work for living. That would be capitalism.

423 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:07:12am
424 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:07:13am

re: #418 Sharmuta

Perhaps they're busy raising money for ron paul.


But it's for Blimp rental!!

425 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:07:56am

re: #401 Dianna

Could any of them pilot a plane?

Of course not! It was just angry, bullshit, macho posturing.

426 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:07:58am

re: #419 Dianna

It's important we keep our senses of humor.

427 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:08:06am
428 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:08:16am

re: #420 yma o hyd

Perhaps they're still fast asleep ...

heh ... nice allusion!

429 Dreader1962  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:08:31am

re: #409 Desert Dog

I took a walking tour of "Dicken's London" when I lived there. The guide was taking us around the Bloombury section of the city. He was telling us about the buildings. Then, we turned the corner and I have forgotten the street name, but there was an entire row of more "modern" buildings that seemed out of place. Someone asked about them and he just turned around and said, "buzz-bomb". If you go to the City of London, the center, there are very few older buildings. Just Saint Paul's and the Tower...the rest of the City was flattened during the blitz.

The monument survived, along with other buildings. Is there a place to look at all of the older buildings that were destroyed in the Blitz?

430 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:08:39am
431 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:09:06am

re: #423 philip

FOAD, troll

432 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:09:36am

re: #423 philip

And here comes the first. Took longer than I thought. *spit*

433 Dreader1962  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:10:33am

re: #423 philip

*GAZE*

First time I've posted that, actually. You wouldn't have the courage to say this to me in person.

434 AMER1CAN  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:10:48am

It's hard to believe we actually funded a "cash for clunkers" program, yet ground zero isn't rebuilt. I would rather have had every penny for that wasteful program go to rebuild ground zero.

435 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:11:03am

re: #417 Dar ul Harb

One of their most jarring movie appearances is in the last act of Spielberg/Kubrick's "A.I." which is set thousands of years in the future.

The towers also appear in Munich, implying that future acts of terrorism were the results of Israel's anti-terror war.

436 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:11:48am
437 Dianna  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:12:07am

re: #426 Sharmuta

It's important we keep our senses of humor.

I'll try.

This is always a bad day for me. I didn't lose anyone, and was probably the last person in the US to find out about it - except for my old Anthro professor - but it always hurts.

438 Kragarghazi  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:12:08am

#423

Fuck you

439 John Neverbend  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:12:15am

re: #409 Desert Dog

If you go to the City of London, the center, there are very few older buildings. Just Saint Paul's and the Tower...the rest of the City was flattened during the blitz.

There's more old (at least pre-war) buildings than you'd think, but there are also a lot of modern buildings that were built when the City expanded significantly post "big bang". The old buildings include the Bank of England, Mansion House, Guildhall and some of the Livery Company buildings. The V-1 flying bombs did make a mess of parts of Lower Thames Street.

440 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:12:16am

I always wanted a carillon tower at the site, but I'm not in charge of these things. I just thought that bells rung out from time to time would be appropriate.

441 Killian Bundy  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:12:23am

Never Forget!

Photo by Thomas E. Franklin.

God bless all those heroes and innocent victims of that dark day in American history, as well as the brave and dedicated men and women fighting and working to keep us safe from further attack by the soulless, godless cowards who kill innocent civilians and hide behind their women and children.

/and a big hearty [expletive deleted] you to al Qaeda and malignant, misogynist Islamic jihadi hell spawn everywhere

442 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:12:27am

re: #432 JamesTKirk

And here comes the first. Took longer than I thought. *spit*

Maybe trying to break annefrance's record?
Post that here, on this day, is a good way to attempt it.

443 Mike McDaniel  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:13:11am

re: #325 MikeAlv77

Oh don't you worry. I would like to see when those 19 a$$holes opened their eyes, saw the almighty standing in front of them and then where judged for what they did. They were damned for all eternity... Of that I am sure.

Why, they are each going to get 72 virgins.

Nuns. Wielding yardsticks. Forever.

444 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:13:11am

re: #442 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Maybe trying to break annefrance's record?
Post that here, on this day, is a good way to attempt it.

He didn't last long enough to set a record.

445 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:14:05am

re: #423 philip

Just imagine if President Clinton had responded to the first attack on the WTC with anything approaching due vigor. There would be no Afghan war, no Iraq war, no Patriot Act, no Guantanamo Bay prisons, none of this "horrible aftermath" that you liberal hand-wringers have been crying about for the last 8 years.

446 Lee Coller  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:14:11am

I see #423 has been deleted.

447 yma o hyd  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:14:14am

re: #428 pre-Boomer Marine brat

heh ... nice allusion!

:-)))

One tries one's best ...!

448 Dianna  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:14:19am

re: #444 JamesTKirk

He didn't last long enough to set a record.

For which we are all grateful.

449 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:14:21am

I'm not sure what Wikipedia meant by their description of the United 93 memorial at the Mall of America by calling it a bust of Tom Burnett. It's dedicated to him and all the passengers. But it's not a bust.

Here is a photo.

450 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:14:37am

re: #435 Mad Al-Jaffee

The towers also appear in Munich, implying that future acts of terrorism were the results of Israel's anti-terror war.

Thank you, Mr. Spielberg.

451 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:14:45am

re: #429 Dreader1962

The monument survived, along with other buildings. Is there a place to look at all of the older buildings that were destroyed in the Blitz?

They seem big on keep old stuff in the UK...unlike the USA, which enjoyed bulldozing old stuff. I am not aware of a resource that would show the damage done by the Blitz in 1940 and then the later attacks with the V-1 and V-2. You can see where they landed though...a new out of place building.

Try going to Berlin...that place is all new...it was totally destroyed. They left some ruins up to make a point...

452 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:15:06am

re: #423 philip

OK, there are two aftermath senarios I want you to consider.
1. WTC bombed, and the perps were treated as criminals. This led to several more bombings over the years, many of which could be coinsidered acts of war. The last of these was the USS Cole. This was treated as a crime instead of an act of war. Of course, that all led to...
2. WTC hit with airplanes, and the perps were treated as enemy combatants. This led to attempts that were nipped in the bud before they could be fully carried out. AQ and their compatriots were on the run, attacking with words whilst being attcked by our military, unable to pull off another major attack in the US.
So, please tell me which aftermath was worse. I'm waiting.
BTW, don't tell me that the world hated the US more after because they hated us before as well. Everyone hates the #1.

453 cliffster  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:15:23am

Hey all - I have neither ethos nor pathos, but I do want to say that me and all my friends and family are all remembering the people of NYC, both those in the Trade Center towers and those who sat fearful, a safe distance away, the Firefighters, those in the Pentagon, very much those in Flight 93, all Americans, and especially what a great country we live in. God bless all of you and all Americans.

454 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:15:26am

This is a strange one...
Owosso police look into two murders


Two men were shot and killed this morning in Owosso -- one a longtime abortion protester shot multiple times as he stood across from Owosso High School and the other at a gravel company, according to news reports.

Police believe the shootings were related, and said a suspect was in custody.

The Argus Press in Owosso reported that Jim Poullion of Owosso, a longtime anti-abortion activist, was fatally shot at the high school at 7:30 a.m. Shortly afterward, a man was shot at Fouss Gravel in Owosso Township.

"We have two murders," Shiawassee County Sheriff George Braidwood told the Argus Press. "We believe they are related and we have a suspect in custody.

455 yma o hyd  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:15:57am

re: #435 Mad Al-Jaffee

The towers also appear in Munich, implying that future acts of terrorism were the results of Israel's anti-terror war.

But of course!

Everything, always, is the fault of the Jooos!

456 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:16:58am
457 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:17:04am

re: #444 JamesTKirk

He didn't last long enough to set a record.

I just clicked user info and it's still registered.

/ ... clock ticking ... ... ...

458 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:17:29am

re: #445 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Just imagine if President Clinton had responded to the first attack on the WTC with anything approaching due vigor. There would be no Afghan war, no Iraq war, no Patriot Act, no Guantanamo Bay prisons, none of this "horrible aftermath" that you liberal hand-wringers have been crying about for the last 8 years.

They wouldn't have been crying about it if Bill had done what Bush did; the Dems were oddly quiet as Bill Clinton bombed Iraq, Bosnia, the Sudan, etc.

459 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:17:38am

re: #439 John Neverbend

Yes, up on the hill and around St. Pauls, and even in the City as well, but still way more newer buildings that most of the older parts of London. The dock areas got it pretty good though, all up and down the Thames on the eastside.

London is probably my favorite city. I was lucky enough to live and study there...probably the happiest time of my life.

460 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:17:53am

re: #456 buzzsawmonkey

That sounds so "Three Musketeers": ethos, pathos, and our armies.

I'm feeling dirty after reading #423. I need to take a bathos.

461 StillAMarine  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:18:05am

Barukh ata (Hashem) Eloheinu melekh h'olam, dayan ha'emet

Today I remember our family friends, a lady and her little daughter who emigrated to the United States to escape the troubles in Ireland, and who lost their lives on 11 September 2001.

462 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:18:11am

Homily of Fr. Mychal Judge, OFM
Originally given Sept. 10, 2001 at a mass for "christening" a new firehouse in NYC
Fr. Judge was one of the first casualties of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.


“We come to this house this morning to celebrate renewal, rejuvenation, new life. We come to thank God for the blessings of all the years that the good work has been done here and especially the last few days. We can never thank God enough for the reality of the lives we have.

So standing in his presence this morning – and truly this is a chapel – let us pause for a moment, perhaps close our eyes and thank God for some special blessing in our individual lives.

You do what God has called you to do. You show up, you put one foot in front of another, you get on that rig, you go out to do the job, which is a mystery and a surprise. You have no idea when you get on that rig, no matter how big the call, no matter how small, you have no idea what God’s calling you to, but he needs you. He needs me. He needs all of us.

Retirees, he needs your prayers, he needs your stopping by occasionally to give strength and support to tell the stories of the old days. You need the house. And those of you who are working now, keep going. Keep supporting each other. Be kind to each other. Love each other. Work together and do what you did the other night and the weeks and the months and the years before. And from this house, God’s blessings go forth to this community.

It’s fantastic but very painful. You love the job … we all do. What a blessing that is. A difficult, difficult job and God calls you to it and then gives a love for it so that a difficult job will be well done. Isn’t he a wonderful guy? Isn’t he good to you, to each one of you, and to me? Turn to him each day, put your faith and your trust and your hope and your life in his hands. And he’ll take care of you and you’ll have a good life. And this house will be a great, great blessing to his neighborhood and to this city.”

“Amen.”

463 Mike McDaniel  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:18:11am

And in other news, the Coast Guard has announced the formation of their new Afghanistan River Patrol detachment.

Manned by the former members of the Potomac River detachment.

:-)

464 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:18:34am

re: #445 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Just imagine if President Clinton had responded to the first attack on the WTC with anything approaching due vigor. There would be no Afghan war, no Iraq war, no Patriot Act, no Guantanamo Bay prisons, none of this "horrible aftermath" that you liberal hand-wringers have been crying about for the last 8 years.

Imagine if Clinton had taken Bin Laden when he was offered him on a plate.

465 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:18:37am

I just spent 2 hours on the phone with my insurance about getting a supply of meds refilled so I don't run out while I'm in Israel.

466 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:18:38am

re: #454 Killgore Trout

This is a strange one...
Owosso police look into two murders

I'm trying to figure that one out myself. Owosso is not a very big place (off I-69 between Lansing and Flint), and has a fairly low crime rate, IIRC. Apparently one of the killed was a pro-life/anti-abortion activist.

467 John Neverbend  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:18:43am

re: #451 Desert Dog

I am not aware of a resource that would show the damage done by the Blitz in 1940 and then the later attacks with the V-1 and V-2. You can see where they landed though...a new out of place building.

Museum of London is one place. See, for example, V-1 damage

468 sasquatchonsteroids  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:19:26am

re: #460 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I'm feeling dirty after reading #423. I need to take a bathos.

Then don't go to HP.
Lovely comments.

Rudy walked around and pointed at things. He was a joke.

the next 911... the mutated swine flu. blame that on AQ too.

469 Dianna  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:19:42am

re: #454 Killgore Trout

This is a strange one...
Owosso police look into two murders

No kidding - very odd. It's good there's a suspect in custody, and very likely the rest of the residents think so, too.

470 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:19:49am

Lots of hate mail waiting in my Inbox this morning, which is always nice, but especially wonderful today.

471 John Neverbend  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:20:05am

re: #459 Desert Dog

London is probably my favorite city. I was lucky enough to live and study there...probably the happiest time of my life.

Where and what did you study?

472 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:20:11am

re: #430 Desert Dog

Charles, please delete my #430, it's quotes that idiot's post..thank you.

473 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:21:06am

Now that you Lizards know about the small memorial at the Mall of America- I hope that if any of you travel to the Twin Cities, you'll try to make a stop to see it. The MoA is by the airport. You could even visit on a long layover.

474 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:21:17am

re: #466 Honorary Yooper

What gives me pause is the second shooting. It might not have been about the abortion thing at all. It might have been somebody who just snapped and the guy with the outrageous abortion sing just drew attention to himself. It might have been personal. The anti-abortion crowd is all wound up about this one but the 48 hour rule would be wise.

475 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:21:20am

re: #470 Charles

Lots of hate mail waiting in my Inbox this morning, which is always nice, but especially wonderful today.

Some people have no shame. Real patriots they are./

476 Dianna  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:22:02am

re: #470 Charles

Lots of hate mail waiting in my Inbox this morning, which is always nice, but especially wonderful today.

Just bin it. You don't need this.

477 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:22:09am
478 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:22:20am

I remember for weeks after 9/11, if I saw a plane flying overhead, I'd think, "is it ours?" Thank you President Bush, the CIA, FBI & all of our servicemen & women who have made sure that our skies still belong to America.

479 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:22:23am

re: #451 Desert Dog

Getting OT here, but one of the many things I love about The Third Man is it was filmed in Vienna while the city was being rebuilt after the war. They didn't take long after the war to make a great post-war movie.

480 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:22:24am

re: #470 Charles

Lots of hate mail waiting in my Inbox this morning, which is always nice, but especially wonderful today.

They should be really proud of themselves today for that. *spit*

481 Danny  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:22:55am

re: #476 Dianna

Just bin it. You don't need this.

Exactly. Make sure the haters wasted their time.

482 Dianna  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:23:15am

re: #474 Killgore Trout

People always should use the 24 hour rule when disturbed. But they don't.

483 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:23:42am
484 medaura18586  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:24:09am

re: #24 laZardo

I was 14 at the time. My mother had woken me up close to the middle of the night (about 9-10pm), by that time the 1st tower had fallen. I was woken up again after the 2nd one fell.

I couldn't even grasp the magnitude of what happened for the next few days. Truly this was the defining event of the growing generation.

I was about 15. In a night gown. I was watching "Air Force One," you know, the Harrison Ford movie in which the terrorists had hijacked a plane. When the movie was over, the footage of what seemed like a massive demolition kept recurring on all channels I was switching. Of course, I was in Albania. It took me about an hour to figure out what was happening, and many more weeks to grasp its significance.

485 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:24:11am

re: #477 buzzsawmonkey

If you get any chain hate mail, I hope you post it.

It greaves me to see you post that.

486 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:24:12am

re: #483 buzzsawmonkey

But then the trash will be all bin-laden!


You win the internet with that pun!

487 cliffster  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:24:14am

re: #470 Charles

Lots of hate mail waiting in my Inbox this morning, which is always nice, but especially wonderful today.

I reckon you should feel honored to have front row seats for the kind of base and low-class behavior people will stoop to.
/

488 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:24:34am

Shock, anger, disbelief. I can still taste it 8 years on. I will never forget.

489 medaura18586  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:25:19am

re: #484 medaura18586

Little did I know then that in a few years I'd be living right next to Ground Zero.

So strange, now that I think about it...

490 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:25:22am

re: #485 pre-Boomer Marine brat

It greaves me to see you post that.

You sure that is not a Breach of decorum?

491 Dianna  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:25:43am

Plunging into numbers and staying there. Take care.

492 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:25:56am

re: #470 Charles

Lots of hate mail waiting in my Inbox this morning, which is always nice, but especially wonderful today.

The Deucers were also very wound up last night spewing their own hate about it. Of course, the bigotry reared its head there earlier this morning as well.

493 vxbush  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:26:06am

I'm arriving late today. But let me share, if I may.

I live in the middle of the Midwest. I'm no where near New York, and I have no friends or family there. I have no reason to be interested in New York or look at it other than a commercial center.

Until 9/11.

On that day, I was working at home, telecommuting and trying to get some writing done. I don't know why the TV was on; I think someone from work had emailed everyone just after the first tower had been hit, so I turned on the TV and saw the horror before me. I was shocked at what happened, and assumed at first as many did that it was an aviation accident, a fluke of a computer or a pilot who wasn't aware.

Until the second plane hit.

And my horror turned to shock at what I had seen. From then on, I could not move away from the TV, looking at the videos and watching the people and the ash falling. I started praying, I think, trying to push people with my feeble mind to get away from the towers, to move away and get to safety--if there was any.

And then the tower fell.

And my shock went numb. I could not process what I had seen, could not believe what was going on miles away. I sat there and cried and knew that while I was supposed to be working, I couldn't.

Maybe my memories of that day have changed over the years, but one thing is certain: I do not want us to forget. I do not want us to go back to the way we used to handle security in this nation. I want us to be serious about those who are dedicated to hurting us, and I want them stopped.

For good.

494 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:26:10am
495 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:27:23am

re: #490 Creeping Eruption

You sure that is not a Breach of decorum?

OMG ... shield us from THAT!

496 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:27:53am

One great memory I have of that week is a close friend (who isn't Jewish, and is pretty liberal) telling me, "We need to think about our policy of aiding Israel. We should start giving them more."

497 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:28:08am

re: #471 John Neverbend

Where and what did you study?

I was an exchange student from Aug. 85 to Feb. 86. I moved there in July of 85 and left in April of 86. I lived near Russell Square by the British Museum. It was a hotel that was turned into a dorm. Most of my fellow students were also Americans, but we had a few Canadians and even a few "West Germans". We took classes at several colleges of the Univ. of London. University College, Birkbeck College and Hammersmith College as well. All of my credits went towards my degree from the Univ. of Colorado. I took a 2 month special class on US/Soviet Relations at the School of Economics as well. That was a blast. The professors where English and American. I did not take classes with the general population of British students, it was a separate program.

The outfit that ran the operation is called the American Institute of Foreign Study. I think they are still around today. I have told my kids that if they get to the 3rd year of college and are doing well, I will send them to study abroad like I did. What an experience!

498 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:28:13am

re: #492 Honorary Yooper

The Deucers were also very wound up last night spewing their own hate about it. Of course, the bigotry reared its head there earlier this morning as well.

Email me links to any threats, please.

499 Kragarghazi  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:28:29am

My unit was just getting into the office after morning PT when the first reports came in about a plane hitting the towers. We thought some idiot was pulling a stunt in a cesna or something. We kind of laughed it off and went about getting ready for a normal workday when the 2nd one hit and official word came down we were on full alert. We went into full lockdown at that point. I wasn't even able to get in touch with my wife till that evening.

500 medaura18586  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:29:47am

re: #470 Charles

Lots of hate mail waiting in my Inbox this morning, which is always nice, but especially wonderful today.

Hatemail about what now? What did you do? Did I miss any blasphemy?

501 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:30:06am

re: #497 Desert Dog

I did my junior year abroad in England at Univsrsity of Sheffield.

502 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:30:18am

re: #494 buzzsawmonkey

I was thinking more along the lines of "Pass this hate letter on to ten people! Don't break the chain!"--but I love your riposte.

I wasn't sure which you meant, but was happy for the opportunity!

It was more Greek than medieval, and the comment was written in Ajax.

503 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:30:32am

re: #500 medaura18586

I noticed your site is down last night.

504 medaura18586  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:30:36am

re: #500 medaura18586

ACORN is my guess but I'm never sure what ticks the crazies off.

505 medaura18586  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:31:50am

re: #503 Sharmuta

It is. The hosting company went out of business right as I was about to leave for Albania. Was too busy then to set it up elsewhere. My husband is working on it now that we're back, and it should be live either today, or by weekend's end at the latest. Quite a pain in the ass.

506 StillAMarine  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:32:03am

re: #493 vxbush

On that day everybody was a New Yorker.
Except for a bunch of jihadist poltroons.

507 borgcube  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:32:34am

re: #37 thedopefishlives

Based on what I've seen of your contributions here, I think our nation needs more country bumpkins from typical Midwest high schools than a bunch of sophisticated big city 20-somethings who can't even tie their own shoes and can only write in text message format.

You're an asset to this forum and no doubt to our country as well.

508 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:32:35am

re: #505 medaura18586

It is. The hosting company went out of business right as I was about to leave for Albania. Was too busy then to set it up elsewhere. My husband is working on it now that we're back, and it should be live either today, or by weekend's end at the latest. Quite a pain in the ass.

I wanted to link your work to the spencer thread last night.

509 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:32:37am
510 Kragarghazi  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:32:42am

Hamas seeks new doctrine after Gaza War failures

Hamas has undertaken a major process of examination and investigation into its deeply flawed performance in the course of Operation Cast Lead, sources say. The review process is aimed at developing a new doctrine for Hamas to enable it to achieve its ambition of rivaling Hizbullah in its abilities. It remains to be seen if the reforms will deliver an improved result in renewed future hostilities with Israel or whether, as with Operation Cast Lead, Israel will once again display an ability to frustrate and set Hamas back on the tactical level.

511 vxbush  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:33:30am

re: #506 StillAMarine

On that day everybody was a New Yorker.
Except for a bunch of jihadist poltroons.

And I think on every 9/11, we should all be honorary New Yorkers.

Hey, I can fake the accent.

512 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:33:48am

re: #511 vxbush

And I think on every 9/11, we should all be honorary New Yorkers.

Hey, I can fake the accent.

Can youse?

513 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:33:51am
514 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:33:53am

re: #479 Mad Al-Jaffee

Getting OT here, but one of the many things I love about The Third Man is it was filmed in Vienna while the city was being rebuilt after the war. They didn't take long after the war to make a great post-war movie.

I was locked out of a Youth Hostel in Vienna once. We got there too late after a night of drinking too many Pilsners. So, me and this Swiss guy climbed up the drain pipe and the ladies on the "woman's side" let us in. Later that morning, this terse looking Austrian lady came up to me and told me I would not be allowed to stay there again. I remember that more than Mozart's Tomb...oh to be young!

515 vxbush  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:34:07am

re: #512 JamesTKirk

Can youse?

Every time I need to get kawfee.

516 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:34:28am

re: #482 Dianna

People always should use the 24 hour rule when disturbed. But they don't.

That goes double for online posts. If you think you're angry when posting a reply to something that you oppose, you probably are. Take a bit of time to reflect on it. Cool off.

517 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:34:34am

re: #501 Mad Al-Jaffee

I did my junior year abroad in England at Univsrsity of Sheffield.

The best time of your life, right? I loved my time in the UK. You cannot really know a place until you live there.

518 irish rose  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:34:49am

I was out in the garden planting peonies that morning, and I had just taken a quick break to have a cup of coffee when the first tower was hit. I sat down in a chair and saw the whole thing unfold right in front of my eyes, beginning to end.

I'll never forget the sight of those skyscrapers collapsing onto the streets of Manhattan... ever. I'll never forget the sickening sight of victims leaping from the windows on the upper floors. I'll never forget the screaming. I'll never forget the endless of succession of funerals that followed. And I'll never forget the physical and emotional numbness that paralyzed me for days and weeks afterward.

I cry every time I think about it... it still makes me feel physically ill to watch the footage, even eight years later.

But I force myself to watch.
I'm determined that I will not allow time to diminish the memory of that day.

519 SlartyBartfast  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:35:13am

I picked up the Bible this morning before work and randomly opened to this passage from The Sermon on the Mount:

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit...

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Seems oddly appropriate for this day.

Never forget.

520 CIA Reject  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:36:16am

re: #511 vxbush

And I think on every 9/11, we should all be honorary New Yorkers.

Hey, I can fake the accent.

Little Reject is studying acting. When she asked her New Yorker step-dad (me) how to do a New York accent I gave her a DVD of Joe Pesci in "My Cousin Vinnie".

She had it down cold by the end of the movie.

521 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:36:18am

re: #500 medaura18586

Hatemail about what now? What did you do? Did I miss any blasphemy?

Lots of people gloating at me about Powerline removing their LGF link in favor of Gateway Pundit. And more people gloating about Jawa Report coming out supporting Robert Spencer. Stuff like that.

Several people seem to be following every comment I post - I got two hate mails about my comment that I think there's an undercurrent of racism in Obama Derangement Syndrome. They really hated that comment.

522 pat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:36:18am

Truther movement is rather mainstream Democrat it seems:

New York reveals demands for new 9/11 probe may go to vote as Americans mark eighth anniversary

Read more: [Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

523 mikalm  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:36:26am

In memory of the victims of that terrible day eight years ago.

Never Forget!

524 buster  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:36:30am

I live north of Atlanta and drive home via I85. At night you can see the landing lights of aircraft queuing up for arrival at Hartsfield International, some 40 miles to the south. On a clear night you can see the lights of 6 planes or so stretching out in the distance.

As the events of 9/11 unfolded, on the TV in the customer lounge, it all seemed so surreal. I was scrambling to cancel a marketing event for the following day, contacting customers and such, talking to colleagues about what was going on and generally trying to comprehend the magnitude of the events in New York , Washington and Pennsylvania: but, it was almost like watching a movie and I felt detached from it. There were things to be done that needed doing, I would deal with it later

The thing that brought it all home to me, was the drive home. It was dark and my top was down. As I drove I became acutely aware of the fact that there were no lights in the sky, none, no planes at all. I felt a chill as the events of the day suddenly became very real, very local and the full magnitude of what was happening became clear. The attack affected all of us, and for all time.

Never forget.

525 windsword  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:38:29am

I was in sixth grade. My principal got on the intercom second period to tell us that terrorists had hijacked planes and flown them into government buildings. He said that anyone who wanted to go home with their parents could. He said to be on the alert for more updates.

And I laughed. I was an immature kid. To me, it was like a cool Die Hard movie or something. I didn't get it. It was stupid.

It wasn't until I got home to my crying mother that it really hit me, the tragedy of it all. Every year today, I'm hit with the guilt of my shameful first reaction. In many ways, I've spent much of my young life making up for that moment, fighting against Trutherism and what not. Never forget.

526 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:38:34am

re: #522 pat

Truther movement is rather mainstream Democrat it seems:

New York reveals demands for new 9/11 probe may go to vote as Americans mark eighth anniversary

Read more: [Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

That is NOT a Truther group. [Link: nyccan.org...]

527 Joshua Cohen  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:39:09am

My 9/11/2001

It was a nice day...not much to do at work...just some paperwork and oversighting. I was a bit unhappy that no flight-hours where scheduled for me, and so we had lunch and then met for some informal talking in the Officers club with the younger pilots, who where going to be detached to Nellis AFB. Talking about procedures there, about good restaurants and clubs, women and stuff like that.
This and about some things about the last and the next NATO maneuver where we usually attend as OPFOR (As earlier stated, we flew the only MiG29As (later modified to MiG29G) in the NATO, could speak Russian and knew the procedures of the former enemy, because we where trained by the Soviets in the late 80ties).

It was a very informal meeting, playing pool, talking and watching TV.

It was early afternoon as we see the News - the first tower was burning...we read a plane crashed into it, speculated about bad weather and believed it was just a small one.
While watching this the second just crashed into it. LIVE!
We just where thinking WTF? It was a clear day there too what the fuck got wrong - ILS malfunctions? Impossible!

Than nothing but silence and we knew this was not accident!
As the Pentagon was hit we knew that something really bad was going on and got on a higher alert level. (the JB73 was QRA "I" - Quick Reaction Alert "Interceptor" for the northern part of Germany so usually some jets where always ready to take off in 15 minutes or less.)
We called home, telling our wives and kids that we will possible not come home today or for the next days.
Then we got a briefing. Got told that most planes will got grounded within the next hours and that just rescue and military aircrafts will be allowed to fly.
If something strange happens - we should be ready.

Strangest thing was that the usual pairs got mixed. We would not fly with our known wingman but with another - reason was to mix younger and more experienced pilots in case that there would be drastically decision making necessary and to make sure what ever would be necessary would be done.
We all knew what was meant and also that there was no legal base for what could happen.
Shortly after the towers came down most of us where already in their G-Suits.
Alarm level was set to Ready Fiveconfiguration. A rotating triple shifts for 2h each. In the plane, boots of and sleeping.
And so I heard this alarm sound for the first time since the end of the cold war. It promised nothing good and it really gave me the creeps.

And so later this day I sat there, stripped to the seat of my fully equipped fighter, in the blast shelter next the runway, APU's on standby, ready to take off in less than 5 minutes.
All limits where off, so going supersonic and afterburner starts where allowed without any requests...and so this day passed...and all others until the end of that week.

The 2nd squadron, flying the F4F Phantom that could stay in the air for much longer times than we, were in air all the time that day.

And we where ready to do what ever it takes and it was not clear if this means total war or less. America was under attack and all of us spent some month in the US before, so it was not just about an ally but about our friends! And in the morning there was a American flag waving in the wind besides our own.

528 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:39:17am

Remember this?

[Link: www.time.com...]

529 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:39:47am

re: #511 vxbush

And I think on every 9/11, we should all be honorary New Yorkers.

Hey, I can fake the accent.

Weah Noo Yoarkahs. Got a problem wit dat?

530 Desert Dog  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:39:53am

re: #522 pat

Truther movement is rather mainstream Democrat it seems:

New York reveals demands for new 9/11 probe may go to vote as Americans mark eighth anniversary

Read more: [Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

Charlie Sheen is a dickhead...FU Charlie, go back to doing the drugs and chasing the ladies

531 SteveC  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:40:50am

Wrote this for an online forum for young adults, hope you enjoy it:

Harvey isn’t a person – it’s a fireboat. Officially named the John J. Harvey, it was named after a New York City Fireboat crewman who had died in an explosion. When she was launched in 1931, the Harvey was a monster – 130 feet long, weighing 268 tons, and she could pump 18,000 gallons of water a minute. Harvey’s water cannon were so powerful that from the harbor, she could spray water onto a car on the George Washington Bridge. Harvey hit the water the same year that Babe Ruth hit his 611th home run.

It didn’t take long for her to see action. In 1932 an explosion shattered Pier 54, which belonged to the Cunard Steamship Line. The fire got so big that the FDNY declared it a five alarm fire and sent practically everything they had. The Harvey was there, pumping water onto the flames.

On February 9, 1942, she responded when the SS Normandie caught fire. Docked in New York Harbor, the Normandie was one of the largest passenger liners afloat. Wit the French out of the war the Americans had taken control of the homeless ship and were converting it into a troop carrier. Workers accidentally ignited a small fire and the Harvey arrived to find an 80,000 ton passenger ship burning out of control. They fought until 2:45 AM, when the Normandie rolled over and sank, crushing another fireboat as she went over.

World War II would see several ship fires in New York’s harbor, including an ammunition ship loaded to the gills with bullets and bombs. As always, the Harvey was right there when needed. In 1966 she came to the rescue when two oil tankers collied and caught fire.

By the 1990's Harvey had outlived its usefulness. The large passenger liners had long since retired, eliminating the need for its huge pumping capacity. New fireboats were a lot smaller, since a lot of the harbor traffic was pleasure craft now. The FDNY put the Harvey up for sale, and she almost went to a scrapyard before a group of history buffs and preservationists bought her at the last moment.

They restored the ship to its former self and opened it as a museum. Listed on the National Resister of Historic Places, the Harvey was one of the few museums that move – the ship gives tours of the harbor, and can still activate the water cannon for a welcoming ceremony. (The fireboats have a tradition of welcoming an important ship by turning on their water cannon and blowing their horn, but with the number of passenger liners falling, it is rarely done anymore.)

So the Harvey had a second job – an easy job, considering what it had done through the years, but she was still serving a useful purpose. Until the morning of September 11, 2001.

As that day unfolded, the crew of the Harvey reported to the ship. No one told them to come, and most of them were either retired or had never been a firefighter. They just felt that they might be needed.

Word came that a lot of people were gathering on Pier 63, looking to get away from the World Trade Center. No one seemed to know if the fire department sent them, or they just ran in that direction, but now they were in a pickle. The burning towers were behind them, there was a god awful lot of water in front of them, and there weren’t many places to go.

Harvey joined in with other boats, sailing down to the pier. It wasn’t organized at all. As soon as the old fireboat drew near, people jumped on board. Most of them had already left their shoes behind to make running easier. Once 150 people were aboard, the crew started backing the boat away from the pier. Another boat slid in behind them, to pick up more people.

As they were enroute, to Pier 40, which was relatively safe, the radio crackled. FDNY was asking if the Harvey’s water cannon still worked.

532 irish rose  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:41:39am

re: #521 Charles

Lots of people gloating at me about Powerline removing their LGF link in favor of Gateway Pundit. And more people gloating about Jawa Report coming out supporting Robert Spencer. Stuff like that.

Several people seem to be following every comment I post - I got two hate mails about my comment that I think there's an undercurrent of racism in Obama Derangement Syndrome. They really hated that comment.

Let 'em rant, Charles.
They're lost.

533 SteveC  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:41:46am

Harvey, Part 2:

As they were enroute, to Pier 40, which was relatively safe, the radio crackled. FDNY was asking if the Harvey’s water cannon still worked.

Damn straight.

Then get your people off as fast as possible and report to the seawall near the WTC, came the request. The collapsing buildings have shattered the water mains. We’ve got a whole city block on fire and no water to fight it with.

Harvey’s crew pulled in to Pier 40, unloading the passengers as quickly as possible. Come on folks, you’ve got to go. Step quickly please, everything will be ok.

Throttle to the wall, lights flashing and sirens blaring, the 70 year old fireboat was once again roaring to the rescue. Sure these were the grandkids of the FDNY the Harvey had served with, and they had even tried to sell her for scrap. But now they needed his help and by God, he was coming. Pulling up to the seawall, Harvey found several fire trucks with their hoses out. Harvey would provide the water, the trucks would act as pumps and relay the water to the burning Trade Center.

But the newer fire hoses wouldn’t fit the Harvey’s connections. Using a sledgehammer, the ship crew narrowed the nozzles of the water cannon and then slammed the hoses down onto them. It wasn’t perfect, but it looked like it would work. The proper switch was thrown and suddenly the Harvey was fighting the World Trade Center blaze. 18,000 gallons of water per minute might bring that fire under control.

The Harvey stayed at that seawall for more than three days, pumping water the entire time. Finally on Friday, September 14 – 80 hours after she had turned on the water – the Harvey was released from duty and was free to go.

It just goes to prove that if you give a tired old ship a chance to once again be a hero, they might just take you up on it!

534 SlartyBartfast  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:43:00am

re: #524 buster

I had a nearly identical experience--the world's busiest airport (ATL) is just over 30 miles from my house and typically the planes can be seen in the distance lined up for landing at roughly 30s intervals. That evening I stood in my back yard and just looked at the empty sky and felt very alone.

535 Wendya  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:43:58am

re: #524 buster

I live north of Atlanta and drive home via I85. At night you can see the landing lights of aircraft queuing up for arrival at Hartsfield International, some 40 miles to the south. On a clear night you can see the lights of 6 planes or so stretching out in the distance.

I lived in North Fulton county at the time and I remember how strange it felt with no air traffic in the skies and how relieved I was when flights resumed.

536 The Shadow Do  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:47:11am

September 12 was the day I really knew America was changed. I had an appointment at a power plant a couple hours drive from me. I entertained canceling but decided no, I was not going to let this thing get to me; I decided I was going to work.

I was met at the gate by armed National Guardsman. No entry for non-essential personnel. It was 18 months before I could enter that site again.

538 pat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:48:40am

re: #526 Charles


Here are the 400 questions the group wants answered. I interpret them to descend into deep Trutherism about section 13, just as the reporter for The Daily Mail did.

[Link: nyccan.org...]

539 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:49:06am

re: #522 pat

Truther movement is rather mainstream Democrat it seems:

New York reveals demands for new 9/11 probe may go to vote as Americans mark eighth anniversary

Read more: [Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

It's actually a move by a troofer movement to demand new investigations by the City of New York via a referendum. They managed to get 30,000 signatures necessary to get on the ballot in November.

540 yma o hyd  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:50:20am

re: #533 SteveC

Thank you!

Hearted, for re-reading when my tears stop falling.

541 yochanan  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:51:09am

re: #346 Sharmuta

on sept 12 that is exactly what an esteemed member of the Uber liberal university chatting class had to say and most of his group thinkers agreed with him or said nothing I told um off and then went and got some ink on my left arm

i should have also had never forget on it but at the time i though americans wouldn't but i seem to have been a bit wrong on that.

542 SteveC  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:51:47am

re: #537 Killgore Trout

Joe Wilson's Opponent Now At Over $750,000 Since Outburst

Joe's pretty popular here in SC, we'll see. I don't think he can be beat on a head to head competition, but $750,0000 can buy a lot of pull.

Besides, we're too busy burning Mark Sanford at the stake.

543 pat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:52:16am

re: #539 lawhawk

Thanks. I just read the 400 questions they need answered and came to the same conclusion. A subterfuge to get trutherism into official policy. It is the Creationism of the left, lol. And I see where the public is equally unconvinced.

544 yochanan  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:52:55am

re: #506 StillAMarine

A.N.S.W.E.R. had there first anti american demo when the WTC was still burning and van jones was a speaker at one of them in bezerkley.

545 buster  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:53:16am

re: #534 SlartyBartfast

re: #535 Wendya

Planes are such a constant around here, that you are barley aware of their presence, until they are gone. The lack of lights, and the distant rumble is eerie.

546 Dreader1962  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:54:12am

re: #517 Desert Dog

The best time of your life, right? I loved my time in the UK. You cannot really know a place until you live there.

After my visit I've resolved to move there if I ever get the chance and buy a place in the countryside.

I really enjoyed London, but made a point of driving around the island as well to get a better sense of the place. My family comes from Lyme Regis, so I went there and it was a real treat - I think we were the only Americans there, and it's primarily a retreat for the locals. A quaint coastal town with some interesting history - it's the locale where Jane Austen's 'Persuasion' is set and the birthplace of Mary Anning.

Lyme Regis

547 Let's Roll  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:54:22am

Just another day at google.com...

548 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:54:57am

re: #544 yochanan

A.N.S.W.E.R. had there first anti american demo when the WTC was still burning and van jones was a speaker at one of them in bezerkley.

And what does that prove? He probably didn't understand the speech he was reading.
/

549 buster  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:55:30am

re: #547 Let's Roll

It's not like Michael Jackson died or something.
/

550 pat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:55:57am

re: #548 Walter L. Newton

heh,heh

551 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:55:58am
552 kansas  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:57:42am

Kinda nice to see so many on the same page. United We Stand.

553 mjwsatx  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:58:04am

I watched the events fold on TV on the morning of 9/11 as I viewed the Today Show. As the talking heads speculated on whether the first plane strike had been some kind of accident I knew better. When the second plane hit the speculation was gone. Even the lefties on the Today Show couldn't deny the obvious. I watched in shock and horror as people jumped to their deaths and then as the two towers disintegrated into clouds of dark grey dust along with the lives of the innocent victim within.

That day changed my life as much as any major event in my life had done. As much as my marriage. Even as much as the birth of my son. I had watched as Bill Clinton kowtowed to murderers and terrorists. I had watched as the most generous offer Israel could make to Arafat's Palestinians was rebuffed and then turned into frenzy of murder and terror. Even so, like a good liberal Jewish boy, I had voted for Al Gore. On 9/11 I thanked G-d that George Bush - flawed as he was - was our Commander in Chief. I knew then I would never again vote for anyone who would negotiate with murderers and terrorists. That day crystalized my resolve to never countenance anyone who would excuse murder or terror.

May the memories of all those whose lives were taken from their familes and from all of us be for a blessing.

Mike

554 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:59:02am

re: #547 Let's Roll

Just another day at google.com...

Yeah, well, not in this household.

555 StillAMarine  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:59:42am

re: #531 SteveC

Steve,

Thank you for that on Harvey.

556 SlartyBartfast  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:00:18am

I'm waiting for the POTUS to say something today...can he honor the day without mentioning the pending health care reform...er, insurance reform,...um, naked, Statist power grab (by whatever name)?

557 medaura18586  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:00:45am

re: #521 Charles

Lots of people gloating at me about Powerline removing their LGF link in favor of Gateway Pundit. And more people gloating about Jawa Report coming out supporting Robert Spencer. Stuff like that.

Several people seem to be following every comment I post - I got two hate mails about my comment that I think there's an undercurrent of racism in Obama Derangement Syndrome. They really hated that comment.

I surely did miss out on a lot. This is all news to me, though I secretly predicted that Jawa Report would turn against you. I didn't say anything, not wanting to sound like a prophet of doom and gloom. I knew Rusty's marbles were rolling off the wrong way when I came across this post:
[Link: mypetjawa.mu.nu...]

I happen to know that girl. Went to school with her and she's the sister of one of my best childhood friends. First of all, that's not even her in all the pictures. Pictures 1, 3, and 4 are her. But 2 and 5 are someone else, who doesn't even look like her remotely. The whole post is very exploitative. He knows nothing about that girl, and about the country from which she hails. No one had ever thought of forcing her into a burqa. Though last time I checked, her boyfriend was Muslim. Jawa is not living in reality but in make-believe lala land.

As for Powerline, I think too many people still miss the point that you blog to make your ideas known to the world and couldn't give a rat's ass how other blogs react to your take on events and issues.

558 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:02:38am

Without getting too political--somebody was going off the other day about another disaster that hit another city, and things did not go well.

I realized then, how lucky New York City was to have a mayor who did his job, and did it brilliantly. NYC was not lacking in leadership when leadership was necessary. Rudy Guiliani was the right man in the right place at the right time, and the country was blessed to have him.

559 SteveC  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:03:55am

re: #553 mjwsatx

As the talking heads speculated on whether the first plane strike had been some kind of accident I knew better.

They were speculating on a Cessna sized plane. A Cessna make that big of a hole? No way.

560 StillAMarine  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:05:49am

re: #544 yochanan

A.N.S.W.E.R. had there first anti american demo when the WTC was still burning and van jones was a speaker at one of them in bezerkley.

Shows one whose side they are on -- the barbarian side.

561 Wendya  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:06:51am

re: #537 Killgore Trout

Joe Wilson's Opponent Now At Over $750,000 Since Outburst

It appears Wilson is in a "safe" district so unless his opponent is going to use the money to buy votes, it probably won't help much.

562 J.S.  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:06:57am

re: #526 Charles

As I recall, back in 2005, some families of 9/11 met with Hezbollah...are these the same people? or different?

563 medaura18586  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:07:33am

re: #557 medaura18586

Just reread that Hot Muslim Chick post and it enraged me anew. a) Eralda is not Muslim. b) She is not committing any act of defiance or bravery by entering into a friggin' beauty pageant.

The exploitation is sickening.

564 Wendya  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:11:17am

re: #539 lawhawk

It's actually a move by a troofer movement to demand new investigations by the City of New York via a referendum. They managed to get 30,000 signatures necessary to get on the ballot in November.

Here is Coleen Rowley's statement on the NYC CAN website:

The official dissembling and excuse-making about the true causes and prior mistakes that gave rise to and allowed the terrorist attacks to happen, almost immediately ushered in the Bush-Cheney Administration’s egregious and lawless, post 9-11 “war on terror” agenda which bore no connection to the original causes and no connection to the goal of reducing terrorism and making the world safer.

[Link: nyccan.org...]

565 J.S.  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:13:02am

re: #564 Wendya

Wikipedia (can they be trusted here?) lump CAN into the Truther movement...

566 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:14:36am

re: #565 J.S.

Wikipedia (can they be trusted here?) lump CAN into the Truther movement...

They can. If you read Screw Loose Change at all, NYC-CAN is a ballot initiative designed to give sweeping federal-level investigative powers to a "specially selected" group of Truther nutjobs for the purpose of validating their theories.

567 Dad O' Blondes  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:15:16am

Joe, Danny and Chris:

We miss you. And we'll never forget you.

The kids are fine, nearly grown up now and in college, a few of them. All taken care of and nothing to worry about.

Eight years closer to that beer we missed. Slainte!

.

568 StillAMarine  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:16:37am

re: #509 buzzsawmonkey
Thank you, Buzz.

569 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:19:43am

re: #507 borgcube

Thank you for your kindness.

570 lanaty  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:21:34am

This was the view from my dorm a year ago:

Image: n10508036_33985024_8720.jpg

Image: n10508036_33985022_8118.jpg

God, I miss New York. Being there on the anniversary is always a sobering experience, but an important one that I miss now that I live in the midwest.

571 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:21:48am
572 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:22:39am
573 Son of the Black Dog  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:23:01am

re: #537 Killgore Trout

Your comments about Joe Wilson are out of place in a thread devoted to September 11, 2001.

574 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:23:21am
575 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:23:31am

re: #571 philip


Actually, that's the first rule of LGF: Don't be an freakin' idiot.

576 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:24:17am

re: #575 EmmmieG

Actually, that's the first rule of LGF: Don't be an freakin' idiot.

After all, this is an anti-idiotarian blog.

577 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:24:40am

Heads-up to Philip: your comments are completely inappropriate, and if you continue your account will be blocked.

578 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:25:13am
579 beerdrinking_victorymonkey  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:25:41am

re: #577 Charles

Heads-up to Philip: your comments are completely inappropriate, and if you continue your account will be blocked.

Charles, you have the patience of Job to even give twerps like him a second chance to prove themselves to be idiots.

580 Danny  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:26:15am

re: #579 beerdrinking_victorymonkey

It's at least the third chance, actually

581 Racer X  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:30:10am

re: #571 philip

Go the fuck away.

582 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:31:02am

re: #580 Danny

It's at least the third chance, actually

And the lgf2'ers will say how bad Charles is, and how dictatorial; if you disagree you get banned, etc.
But I've seen plenty of warnings to people who then keep going and get the stick; if they had stopped they'd still be here.
And he does relent - in the previous thread, Charles banned and then re-instated a lizard, so anyone who goes on about him being unfair and not listening to requests for re-instatement, I have trouble believing.
Also, I've been disagreeing to some extent with things Charles says, but respectfully, and I've in no way been threatened with banning.
But then, I don't approach the clearly stated red lines, generally.

583 Texas Heathen  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:31:22am

re: #571 philip

STFU FOAD

and oh yeah my first ever *GAZE*

584 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:34:15am
585 subliminator  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:34:58am

Thank you for your post on the Harvey, SteveC. Your skills remind me of James Kibler and Fred Chappel.

586 Digital Display  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:35:05am

I thought we could make it through an entire 911 thread on 911 without a deletion. There always has to be one idiot

587 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:35:14am

Dear Philip,

Please SYHUYAAI, SYCSWWHTPUW.

Thanks in advance.

/btw, FOAD

588 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:37:22am
589 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:37:57am

re: #588 philip

I warned you, and I don't give idle warnings.

590 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:40:30am

re: #589 Charles

Death-wish.

591 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:43:00am

re: #590 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Death-wish.

Wanted to be banned to get his street cred for LGF2.

592 Dreader1962  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:44:30am

More 9/11 memories...

I had a Chief Warrant that I used to work for that worked in the Pentagon at the time. Since he was still close, he participated in the various social events with our unit. At one event he brought along a friend of his that he worked with in the Pentagon who was very similar - someone who was a Vietnam Vet like he was. This man had left the service in the early '70s to teach elementary school for about 20 years, then in the '90s decided to come back in to the Army as a Warrant Officer - a real nice guy. He died in the Pentagon that day; my old boss lost about half the people in the office where he worked - military and civilian. When I saw him next, he was still wearing the bandages. He had always had the greatest sense of humor and was an outstanding boss - he was very quiet then.

No one in my unit lost their life that day - that would come later, with many deployments around the world. The fight continues, much below the immediate notice of the media. Perhaps in some distant future all of the stories will be told.

593 callahan23  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:45:03am

My drive-by comment for now:

--- My sympathies to all who have lost dear ones. May they find comfort. ---
9/11 was an attack first and foremost against the US, while it also was an attack on all, the western democratic system stands for. I, as a German felt attacked when seeing those pictures of the towers burning. I still feel the pain, rage and loss. I might be an exception in my country but I make it a point of bringing up the subject that today is 9/11. Most people have become completely indifferent to this day and it's significance and some are a little taken aback of my reminding them.
To all terrorist, dictators and assorted monsters of any stripe:
--- I will never forget. Nor will I ever forgive. ---

594 Dreader1962  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:46:18am

re: #589 Charles

I warned you, and I don't give idle warnings.

He thought you weren't watching him because of the new thread?

I didn't see the following comments that got him booted - was he arguing the rules of the site?

595 borgcube  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:46:29am

I've never timed it right where I actually see a deleted post before it's gone. Well, except that one time Charles nailed me. Looks like I'm not missing out on much apparently.

Charles, how do you keep up? Seriously, that would drive me nuts monitoring things so closely.

596 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:46:37am

re: #591 Kosh's Shadow

Wanted to be banned to get his street cred for LGF2.

A tremendous display of personal courage.
It was a Toshiro Mifune moment.

(do I REALLY need one??)

597 Wendya  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:47:08am

re: #565 J.S.

Wikipedia (can they be trusted here?) lump CAN into the Truther movement...

Manny Badillo, who serves as the director of outreach at NYC CAN is also associated with wearechange.org. He is a truther.

598 SecondComing  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:49:35am

re: #53 JamesTKirk

I'm actually pleasantly surprised that I haven't heard from any troofers yet today.

I made the mistake of going to Alex Jones' site to see what he was saying. Most of the front page is dedicated to "unaswered questions about 9/11"(what a big ruse) and other 9/11 pieces including his guest today: "On this eighth anniversary of the false flag attacks on the United States, Alex talks with Charlie Sheen about his widely covered article "20 Minutes with the President" and his call for a new investigation. Charlie will issue a special challenge during the show."

How does Chalie Sheen not feel like a complete creep doing this on the day all these people were murdered?

599 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:50:16am

re: #564 Wendya

The official dissembling and excuse-making about the true causes and prior mistakes that gave rise to and allowed the terrorist attacks to happen, almost immediately ushered in the Bush-Cheney Administration’s egregious and lawless, post 9-11 “war on terror” agenda which bore no connection to the original causes and no connection to the goal of reducing terrorism and making the world safer.

[Link: nyccan.org...]

How is that a "Truther" statement? There's nothing in there about the US government plotting the attacks - in fact, it specifically says they were "terrorist attacks."

You may not like the statement (I don't either) but I don't see how that qualifies as Trutherism.

600 tjseagrove  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:52:51am

Remembering today and always will...

601 CIA Reject  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:55:41am

For what it's worth here are my recollections of September 11, 2001

(1 of 2)

Where I was that day is not important. Who I was is, at least to me. When I was 19 years old I had joined the volunteer fire department in my home town on Long Island, NY. That day was far in the past by September of 2001, but being a fireman was the formative experience of my life- it framed my outlook and attitude towards people and the world. Even to this day everything I think, say, or do can only be fully understood when viewed through the eyes of someone who has come of age while fully immersed in a culture which so thoroughly loves life that it’s members will willingly risk their own lives to protect the lives of others.

That was who I was on September 11, 2001. As I watched the TV coverage of the World Trade Center burning I knew that some of the people fighting to save those inside were my friends who, in addition to being volunteers at home with me, were lucky enough to have a “day job” with the FDNY. Others may well have been my students as I had been an instructor at the Fire Academy in Nassau County on Long Island and many of the students who trained there with their “home” departments also had “day jobs” in the city. I’m sure I learned more from those guys than I taught them, but I always tried to give them some new way of looking at things and I like to think that maybe, just maybe one or two of them made it out of the horror of that day alive because of something I told them.

One of them who did not survive the day was Port Authority Police Officer George Howard, whose badge President Bush held up during his speech to Congress after the attack. George was one of my fellow instructors at the Fire Academy. We had gone through instructor’s school together, worked classes together, and even though he was not a close personal friend there is a certain bond that forms between two men who crouch in the basement of a concrete building in front of a 10 foot square steel pan filled with several hundred gallons of burning fuel oil and try to show a dozen nervous, testosterone-charged 18 year old probationary firemen how to extinguish it without either suffocating or burning to death which goes beyond most casual working relationships. George was a good fireman, a good instructor, a good cop, and somebody you could rely on if you needed a friend. And by nightfall on September 11, 2001 he was dead.

There was also another fireman, whose name I won’t mention here, from my home department who died that day trying to evacuate people from the towers.

So among the fallen there were two that I knew personally, but that didn’t matter. 343 members of the FDNY perished that day, and every single one of them was my brother. Not a single one of them would have hesitated a minute to run straight into the fires of Hell itself to save me if I were trapped there, and I like to think that I would do the same for each and every one of them.

602 CIA Reject  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:56:09am

(2 of 2)

As I sat at work watching events unfold I got more and more angry. I do not think I had ever gotten so angry before or since. The most heinous, wicked, and cowardly act of war ever perpetrated in the history of the United States had just been directed at my home state and my brothers. Because of the nature of my work I had some contacts with the CIA. By the time the second tower fell I had completed a full letter of application and resume. I emailed it to my contact and about an hour later received his reply: “I’ll see what I can do”.

What followed was a process which was sometimes scary, sometimes hilariously funny, but always mysterious. I guess mystery comes with the territory. Because of my experience in certain fields the Agency was, after a series of interviews, very interested and anxious to get me aboard as soon as they could, but because my application had come in through the “back door” by way of my contacts certain key facts, like my date of birth, had not been examined by the paper-pushers at Langley. When they did the math and figured out that I was ten years over the maximum age the Agency’s interest in me evaporated along with my hopes for serving my country in her latest war as my father and grandfather had served her in previous wars.

So those are my memories of September 11th, 2001. I pray that G*d will rest the souls of those innocents lost that day and that He will guard and guide those who defend our country.

My $0.02

603 windsword  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:56:22am

re: #599 Charles

How is that a "Truther" statement? There's nothing in there about the US government plotting the attacks - in fact, it specifically says they were "terrorist attacks."

You may not like the statement (I don't either) but I don't see how that qualifies as Trutherism.

From the questions asked, I got more of an impression of "soft" Trutherism. It strikes me as coming from the "Government Let it Happen" crowd, instead of the "Government MADE it Happen". Either that, or they're attempting to say GWB is somehow responsible for the tragedy through incompetence.

Either way, its despicable.

604 irongrampa  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:01:58am

Just back from a service honoring the heroes on this day.

WTF is this shit about making 9-11 a "day of service"???

I have no problem designating A day as such.

Just not THIS day.

605 GGMac  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:02:28am

Breathe

Breathing deep,
the lungs fill up with
floating souls...

Quiet, secret souls
that enter deep into the heart

A calm and quiet
storm thay fall
as flakes of ash
or winter snow.

These souls carry with them
a message
one your own soul comprehends

Breathing deep again
you hear the souls cry out -
your ears and eyes can stand no more
the stomach twists and knots
but your breathing doesn't stop.

Dust spills down upon you
your lungs and eyes now burn

Breathing deep I cry
I cry and cry
and cry
for I know...
this is goodbye.


poem by Matthew Modine, Greenwich Village, 9.11.01

606 NukeAtomrod  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:05:08am

re: #526 Charles

That is NOT a Truther group. [Link: nyccan.org...]

Ummm... I think they are.

The Family Steering Committee for the Independent 9/11 Commission officially formed after the 9/11 Commission was signed into existence on November 27, 2002. ... To aid the Commission in fulfilling its mandate, the Family Steering Committee provided the Commission with a list of 400 questions that needed answers. ... the Family Steering Committee determined that only 30% of its questions were adequately answered, leaving some 250 questions still unanswered.

There's a link to the FSC list of questions that NYC CAN wants answered. Here are some highlights:

President George W. Bush
6. Is it normal procedure for the Director of the White House Situation Room to travel with you? If so, please cite any prior examples of when this occurred. If not normal procedure, please explain the circumstances that led to the Director of the White House Situation Room being asked to accompany you to Florida during the week of September 11th.

Governor Jeb Bush
1. Why was the Florida National Guard called up in the state of Florida on September 7th, 2001 in order to help handle “civil disturbance” and “acts of terrorism”?

Mayor Rudy Giuliani
1. Within months of the Twin Towers collapse, tons of metal from the collapsed towers were sold to scrap yards in New Jersey, which then sold the debris to other recyclers in the United States and overseas. That metal was evidence which could have helped explain the collapse.

• Why were the steel beams sold and shipped overseas and not retained as evidence? Was the material examined before it was sent overseas? If not, why not?

13. On 9/11, no aircraft hit WTC 7. Why did the building fall at 5:20 PM that evening?

18. Please explain the presence of the FBI at the WTC during the two weeks prior to 9/11.

Questions about Al Qaeda and State Sponsored Terrorism
11) Does the FBI have proof that it was in fact Al Qaeda that perpetrated 9/11?

SEC
1. What are the names of the individuals and the financial institutions who placed "put" orders on American Airlines and United Airlines for the 3 weeks prior to 9/11? Who has possession of these monies?

FAA
2. Why were these four planes able to evade all radar ? Even when the transponders are disconnected, a plane is still able to be located by its "skin" on radar screens.

Port Authority/WTC/City of New York
12. Why was the World Trade Center steel removed so quickly, without being examined, from the scene of a mass murder? Who ordered the removal of the steel?

FBI/CIA/NSA
7. At exactly what time was the shadow government put in place?

Sounds "Truthery" to me.

607 GGMac  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:18:47am

Hello...
Can you hear me?
I was not a fireman,
I was not a policeman.
Still...I was a hero,
to some.

Can you hear me?
I worked in an office,
like yours.
Sat in a chair,
like yours.
Lived a life...
had hopes,
and dreams, like yours.

Can you hear me?
Now I float upon angels' wings,
and have become the tears of God...

Can you hear me?
Now I reach to you
through the darkness,
And though I can't touch you,
know that I am with you...
For I am the sun that warms your face,
The gentle breeze that dries your tears...
And the ember that burns within,
promising the future
will bring you hope and joy;
And through your life,
my spirit will live on.

But I ask you this -
please remember me,
Please, don't ever forget...
me.

(author unknown)

608 Dreader1962  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:20:02am

re: #602 CIA Reject

Sometimes an effort to 'skate' paperwork works; sometimes it doesn't. Mine worked - I broke my back and hip on a jump and wound up with a permanent 'profile' (meaning: a medical limitation on duty in the military). I wanted to continue my career, so I went to a 'leg' doctor and asked if it was okay to 'jump'. He thought I meant hopping up and down, and altered the profile. One paperwork replacement and BINGO - I was jumping out of planes again and finished off my career without being medically retired. I had to do the extra work to pass the PT tests and such, but I made it for the additional 8 years.

609 J.S.  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:20:36am

re: #597 Wendya

Yeah, I did a quick google search for Manny Badillo, and he's appearing on Alex Jones shows, etc...(imo, he's a truther...)

610 CIA Reject  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:26:46am

re: #608 Dreader1962

Heh - that's some good creative thinking there! Unfortunately my age isn't something that's open to interpretation- medically or otherwise. I tried numerous appeals, as did my small network of contacts, but in the end the bureaucracy triumphed. If I had been two or three years over the line I could have pulled it off, but ten was just too many.

Still I've found a way to make myself useful to the cause, after a fashion.

611 Dreader1962  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:42:51am

re: #610 CIA Reject

Heh - that's some good creative thinking there! Unfortunately my age isn't something that's open to interpretation- medically or otherwise. I tried numerous appeals, as did my small network of contacts, but in the end the bureaucracy triumphed. If I had been two or three years over the line I could have pulled it off, but ten was just too many.

Still I've found a way to make myself useful to the cause, after a fashion.

I wound up working for a company that has been pretty interesting and has had some role in the intelligence field. I was in the upper floors of DIA when the run-up to Iraq was taking place - never encountered any talk of falsifying intel to bolster the Iraq war cause. Intel is sometimes just inaccurate.

But of course, those who protest know much more than everyone else. I thought I had the highest clearance, but I guess Cindy Sheehan has some codeword access that I've never heard of. ///

612 CIA Reject  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:46:22am

re: #611 Dreader1962

LOL! Yeah, it is hard to watch some nincompoop blather on about something which he/she knows absolutely nothing while knowing that you can't say anything to refute their bullsh*t without committing a federal crime.

613 Larry A. Herzberg  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:48:24am

Charles-

I'm surprised that no one else seems to have commented on the Infolink connected to "rest in peace" (I just searched the comments here for "infolink" and found no mention of it - I haven't read all the comments). I find such crass commercialization offensive in this context. Is there any way to protect certain posts from it?

614 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:53:59am

My son's college roommate lost his Dad on 9/11. This young man has a twin brother who goes to a different college. Both are paying nothing for their educations due to the generosity of the colleges they attend. I am really glad to live in a country where regular people and private institutions help out people like this young man and his family because we WANT to. There are lessons to be learned from a society that cares for people like these young men and their Mom. And I thank the Lord I live in this society. Because we ARE special.

615 bj  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:55:15am

In blessed memory ~

Youtube Video

Leonard Cohen - On That Day
Some people say
It's what we deserve
For sins against g-d
For crimes in the world
I wouldn't know
I'm just holding the fort
Since that day
They wounded New York
Some people say
They hate us of old
Our women unveiled
Our slaves and our gold
I wouldn't know
I'm just holding the fort
But answer me this
I won't take you to court
Did you go crazy
Or did you report
On that day
On that day
They wounded New York

616 medaura18586  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:55:46am

re: #606 NukeAtomrod

I have to agree that they sound Truthery. Just done reading the statement Charles and Wendya were commenting on. The first note, by Coleen Rowley, is not necessarily truthery. It seems to hint at some criminal negligence/incompetence on behalf of the FBI and other national-security agencies, which the administration allegedly hushed up. And it implies that the U.S. is to blame for 9/11 (the real causes behind terrorism). But it does call them terrorist attacks.

The second note, by Bill Doyle, is much more conspiratorial and Truther flavored:

However, there are still too few answers to too many questions even as promotions and medals are handed out rather than pink slips or prosecutions. Excessive secrecy and redactions still cover-up the truth and leave us in the dark about: terrorist financing from still unnamed foreign nations, suspicious pre-9/11 stock market activity, pre-9/11 warnings to the President, the Attorney General and others, the infamous 28 pages of the Joint Inquiry Report, The Holy Land Trial, Riggs Bank wire transfers, faulty NYFD radios that didn't work in '93, Ground zero toxins breathed by thousands, a 9/11 narrative derived from torture induced testimony, etc., etc. I could go on and on.

That's pure trutherism lurking barely under those statements. Trutherism that dares not speak its name.

617 Land Shark  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:55:46am

And lest I forget:

I also want to thank on this 9/11 Anniversary President George W. Bush and his administration for preventing any further attacks like the ones that happened on that horrible day. And I hope and pray his successor, President Obama, is every bit as successful as he was.

618 Larry A. Herzberg  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:56:17am

Hmmm... the offensive infolink has now disappeared, thankfully. Did it automatically expire, or was that the effect of Charles On High?

619 J.S.  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:59:12am

re: #616 medaura18586

You know, Hezbollah also calls 9/11 a terrorist attack -- (I did have a MEMRI link, lost it), but anyway, the Hezbollah boilerplate (as I'm sure all listeners of CBC can recite by heart, along with all Hezbollah peoples, etc., etc., and probably most people here ) is that Hezbollah roundly condemns all terrorist attacks...that includes AmeriKKKa's attacks against Iraqis, Afghans, Pakistanis, etc., etc.

620 CIA Reject  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 12:05:23pm

re: #614 _RememberTonyC

My son's college roommate lost his Dad on 9/11. This young man has a twin brother who goes to a different college. Both are paying nothing for their educations due to the generosity of the colleges they attend. I am really glad to live in a country where regular people and private institutions help out people like this young man and his family because we WANT to. There are lessons to be learned from a society that cares for people like these young men and their Mom. And I thank the Lord I live in this society. Because we ARE special.

By the time I went to bed on 9/11/2001 I knew two things:

1) We were at war.
2) We would win.

The first was obvious (at least to me and at least then). The second I realized when I got off of my shift at work at about 5pm. I figured (actually hoped) that a lot of survivors would be recovered from the WTC so I stopped at a local hospital and told them I wanted to donate blood.

They wouldn't take it.

Not because they didn't want it or need it, but rather because so many other donors had been in ahead of me during the day that they had run out of collection bags. Other hospitals in the area were out of bags as well. So was the local Red Cross. In fact, on that afternoon there was not a single blood collection bag to be had in the entire tri-state area.

That's when I realized we would win, because we are so able and willing to give of ourselves for one another. I doubt that our enemies have that capability.

621 Larry A. Herzberg  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 12:09:01pm

Now the offensive infolink (on "rest in peace") is back (it occurs only on the front page, not in the reproduction above). I guess once you've signed up for this sort of advertising, it's hard to kill...?

And what happened to my original comment on it? Charles, if you don't want comments about the infolinks, email and tell me to shut up.

622 CIA Reject  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 12:10:21pm

Back to work

Later all, and G*d bless.

623 7WTC-BALLER  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 12:15:59pm

Apparently the rain washed away all the protesters from last year. I was all giddy preparing to shoulderbump 20-30 people on my way to my office, but am now disappointed. No "beam weapons destroyed my erection last night, and my girl left me, i blame bush" posters in sight.

624 Dreader1962  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 12:22:39pm

re: #620 CIA Reject

I had the same experience in the DC area - I went to donate blood and was turned away because they had too many donors.

625 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 1:01:40pm

I just have one statement about the anniversary.

I do not forget.
I do not forgive.
I am not afraid.
If someone thinks what happened was a good thing, they are my enemy.

626 doubter4444  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 1:02:56pm

I'm late to the thread, as usual!
I was living in Soho, one block from the quarantine zone, about 12 blocks from the WTC. I heard the first plane hit from inside the shower, and thought, holy shit, a plane hit a building.
I turned on the news and saw the the tower on fire, and at the time I remember Matt Lauer saying it was thought that it was a personal plane or small plane that hit. I went to the roof in time to see the next plane hit.
I stayed there and watched the towers fall, close enough to hear the glass break and see the small bodies of people falling, and the paper streaming everywhere.

When the first one fell, the sound was unreal, but more than that you could hear the collective intake of everyone s breath as they watch, and then a spontaneous cry of disbelief from the street and rooftops surrounding me. As the second one feel people just wept openly, and prayed, strangers reaching out to each other.
My ex-wife was in the WFC on an upper floor, and was close enough to see the faces of people that jumped, and see them trying to break the the glass with chairs in order to jump to their deaths. She got out on the last ferry before they were commandeered, and got safely back to her home.
In the days that followed it was surreal, there was smoke everywhere, and if you left the area, you could not return, so we stayed.
We passed out water, and boots, and helped people that lived in Zone One get out, or find their pets.
I still have the shoes that are stained with the dust and mud from the area.
In all that, and after living there for 18 years, the closest death from that day was from a friends father was killed in the pentagon.
For years, and perhaps still now (I've moved), if you see or hear a low flying plane over the island, you'll see everyone's head whip up to the sky.
The most heart rendering thing for me though was the contacts that poured in from all over the world to me, people I know in school, who knew I lived in Manhattan, people I had met on trips abroad, who took the time to find my number or email and sent prayers and hopes that everything was all right.
I'll never forget.

627 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 1:07:33pm

I don't like to hear that the victims "lost their lives" as though it were all an unavoidable freak accident, nor that firefighters and police (and soldiers later on) "gave their lives" as though their deaths are in and of themselves some sort of gift. I think it detracts from the point.

Even though every fireman who ascended the stairs of the burning buildings knew it was dangerous in the extreme, not a single one of them went up there with the intent of "giving their lives". They went up there to try to save people, and their lives were taken away from them in the process. Nobody who died on 9/11 "lost" or "gave" anything. Their lives were stolen. I guess it's just semantic quibbling, but it's the way I prefer to think about it.

628 Larry A. Herzberg  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 1:42:18pm

My original comment (now #613) has reappeared (perhaps it was just moved upward in the list after Charles deleted some intervening messages), and the offensive infolink ("rest in peace" used for a vacation ad) has again disappeared. But by the time you read this comment, it might have reappeared. I give up trying to understand the quantum mechanics of infolinks, which seem to spontaneously generate and disappear into thin bandwidth. May this and my previous comments on this issue rest in peace.

629 yochanan  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 1:51:26pm

9-11 was a act of war
IT WAS ALSO A WAR CRIME.

but it wasn't a crime like a bank robbery

i really don't understand the 9-10 out look of the democrat party why are they going after CIA people who did there best to keep us safe?

630 Lucius Septimius  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 2:02:25pm

Brief thought before I have to run off.

As usual, my classes met this morning around the time the planes hit. I read to my class a message I got last week from a friend who had lived through the terror of 9/11 and has been scarred by it. It was a moving personal account. The room was silent.

The college students of today were children that day -- they need to be reminded what that day meant.

631 yochanan  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 2:18:11pm

re: #626 doubter4444

we were at my wife's boss for dinner and her son in law was there as well I learned that her niece died in the attacks and that her her son in law lived a block from the wtc buildings. his reactions when he talked about being in the cloud of falling debris was exactly like some veterans who I knew who were in combat. this was clearly an act of war.

632 Chekote  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 2:21:00pm

So many today have said the words "Never Forget". Unfortunately, too many have made the choice to forget:

This morning my husband was sworn as a brand new American citizen. I have been to citizenship ceremonies a few times – including mine – and it is always a very emotional event for me. It always fills me with both pride and appreciation for this great country. Since today is 9/11, I – along with my family and friends – expected that it would be a special ceremony. That a few words would be said in honor of the victims of 9/11. To our shock neither of the two individuals in charge of the ceremony mentioned this important date in our history. Not one word.

At the end, my fellow rabble rouser friend and I went to speak to the individuals in charge of the ceremony. One was a lady. When my friend asked her why she didn’t say anything about 9/11. She replied she used to make a big deal about this day but four years ago she felt she needed it to “tone it down”. My friend’s eyes filled with tears and said that she was Jewish and she would never let anyone tell her or make her feel she needed to “tone down” about the Holocaust.

I spoke to the gentleman leading the ceremony. I praised him for his speech and for mentioning the words in the Declaration of Independence that define our nation and us as Americans. I said that I was disappointed that he didn’t say anything about 9/11. He replied that he thought about doing that but decided not to include it. I told him that it is very sad for our country that he felt it would be best to ignore this date. My friend and I left but not before telling both individuals that they need to find their voice as Americans and honor the innocent victims of 9/11.

633 doubter4444  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 2:30:38pm

re: #631 yochanan

we were at my wife's boss for dinner and her son in law was there as well I learned that her niece died in the attacks and that her her son in law lived a block from the wtc buildings. his reactions when he talked about being in the cloud of falling debris was exactly like some veterans who I knew who were in combat. this was clearly an act of war.

No doubt.

634 doubter4444  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 2:34:52pm

re: #629 yochanan

9-11 was a act of war
IT WAS ALSO A WAR CRIME.

but it wasn't a crime like a bank robbery

i really don't understand the 9-10 out look of the democrat party why are they going after CIA people who did there best to keep us safe?



I will disagree with you a bit here, though, while I don't support the investigations, I believe we should look at what happened and figure out what when wrong, before and after.
I'm not one of those who worship the CIA, I think there are other agencies that do a better job with billions less of a budget... but in general, the CIA did as they were told, and I don't think it's a good idea to open that can of worms.

635 Hanoch  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 3:04:02pm

And the children who woke up that morning with a mom or dad, but went to bed without one. Very sad.

636 Code Red 21  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 3:16:56pm

I have started to read people's remembrances of 9/11 from the bottom of this blog and got through maybe five and I'm already tearing up over the lives lost that day and the families left to imagine the horror their loved ones went through. I'm tearing up over all of our brave soldiers who made the ultimate sacrifice, their loved ones whose grief I can't begin to imagine. I pray to God that we never experience another 9/11. God Bless our Troops and God Bless America.

637 Ayeless in Ghazi  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 3:28:12pm

For me this day was the realisation of how vulnerable the greatest that civilisation can produce can be to the very worst and most mindless. I hope to never see anything like this again.

638 kevrobin45  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 3:39:36pm

To all the families that have paid the FULL price, my sincere THANKS! GOD BLESS AMERICA!

639 Chekote  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 3:49:23pm

God Bless America and those who put their lives on the line to prevent another 9/11.

640 mjwsatx  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 3:59:43pm

Karmic - I just want you to know that I found this posting so meaningful that I will be quoting it in a d'var Torah (sermon) that I will be delivering to a local Jewish group at services tonight. Thank you for your thoughts.

Mike

re: #182 karmic_inquisitor

Well it may be unpleasant to hear, but America is preoccupied with trying to forget 9/11.

No - not the victims. Few are that callous.

What they are trying to forget is that we live in a shrinking world in which many of the world's citizens live under tyrants in societies dominated by superstition, irrationality and fervent nationalism. Where one does not grow up asking "what do I want to be when I grow up?" Such are silly questions.

Instead there are grievances to be addressed and past wrongs to be avenged.

But Americans can't think that way and don't understand those who do. Instead, we recast them as a class of victims who are in need of either our respect or aid. We recast the world so that we can operate in ours uncluttered by the fact that most of the world is only vaguely familiar with modernity and pluralism.

So people forget. They hear the words "nine eleven" with a sense of foreboding. The sense that the person saying those words will try to use that event to impose a reality on them that they'd rather not live with.

America has an escapist culture. Perhaps that is a good thing since we allow past wrongs to stay in the past. We do move on. But do we learn? Are we prepared to fight a multi-generational war? Or are we culturally moving on while, in the back of our minds, allowing the dirty work to be outsourced to a few men and women in uniform who will bear the burden of seeing things for what they are?

I will never forget, but I feel that I am a member of a shrinking minority out of step with my countrymen.

641 Sloppy  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 5:52:11pm

On the first Halloween after 9/11 my 14-year-old granddaughter wanted to be costumed as a soldier. Her mom, an expert seamstress, cut down my old Class A uniform to fit. I was never prouder of her than when she went off to school that day.

642 TJ  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:01:52pm

...and of course, no special Google logo.

643 Optimizer  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:14:22pm

Thought for the Day: If an act of terrorism is a "human-caused disaster", does that make a terrorist a "disaster engineer"?

/Please pardon this is over-the-top sarcasm, on this solemn day. I just think about how our new administration is in some sort of denial about the War on Terror, and I'm off on another, "What the hell were people THINKING, back in November?" moment. Their behavior towards terrorism would be a joke, if the subject wasn't so serious. I'm almost surprised Obama isn't having a beer with DinnerJacket today.

644 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:21:55pm

IF I said what I really believe and feel on this subject, I would be banned. Some things are better left unsaid. That is all.

-S-

645 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:29:09pm

re: #644 Dr. Shalit

IF I said what I really believe and feel on this subject, I would be banned. Some things are better left unsaid. That is all.

-S-

Ditto.

646 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:40:34pm

re: #634 doubter4444

I will disagree with you a bit here, though, while I don't support the investigations, I believe we should look at what happened and figure out what when wrong, before and after.
I'm not one of those who worship the CIA, I think there are other agencies that do a better job with billions less of a budget... but in general, the CIA did as they were told, and I don't think it's a good idea to open that can of worms.

doubter4444 -

Would you agree to a "Truth Commission" Format? Glad you do NOT think that opening a "Can of Worms" is a good idea.
FACT IS - in the late 1990's we enjoyed, more or less, a well deserved "vacation from history" - Cold War Won, New Technology coming literally "online" made lots of us lots of money. We were Fat and Happy, hell I enjoyed that time too. 9/11/2001 was a wakeup call reminding us of "the Troll" that lives under our bridge. Pin the name on that Troll, as you would Pin the Tail on a Donkey at a youthful birthday party - IF YOU DARE. It is certainly, today, Politically Verrry Incorrect.

-S-

647 doubter4444  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:55:39pm

re: #646 Dr. Shalit

doubter4444 -

Would you agree to a "Truth Commission" Format? Glad you do NOT think that opening a "Can of Worms" is a good idea.
FACT IS - in the late 1990's we enjoyed, more or less, a well deserved "vacation from history" - Cold War Won, New Technology coming literally "online" made lots of us lots of money. We were Fat and Happy, hell I enjoyed that time too. 9/11/2001 was a wakeup call reminding us of "the Troll" that lives under our bridge. Pin the name on that Troll, as you would Pin the Tail on a Donkey at a youthful birthday party - IF YOU DARE. It is certainly, today, Politically Verrry Incorrect.

-S-

You know, I have honestly no idea what that is supposed to mean.
Can you clarify?

648 6pat6  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:26:36pm

I remember. I'll never forgive, either.

Geez, the mere mention of 9/11 today on the news channels was nearly verboten, except for a very few words spoken. Fox seemed to be the only network that felt the acknowledgment of what happened EIGHT years ago, was worth more than just a word or two in passing. Other than BHOs and Bidens' hollow words, that was pretty much it, far as the networks were concerned. They, and our so-called "leaders" are firmly entrenched in 9/10 think. Sing "Kumbaya" with enemies that have sworn to destroy us. Ignore the realities of the real Global War on Terror, which MAYBE BHO might be coming around to seeing reality, and not catering to his campaign contributors about this. I do not have a positive view on this, however.

The area at Ground Zero looks like it's hardly been touched since the clean-up, although there has been some building going on...finally. The petty antics of NY politicians of both parties; posturing, grandstanding, photo-ops, plus ridiculous designs & plans have done nothing to do what is necessary to get things done there.

The tenth anniversary will arrive soon enough. And, what exactly WILL change?

649 Flavia  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:33:22pm

re: #99 yochanan

May his memory prove a blessing - may you be comforted with the mourners of Zion & Yerushalayim.

650 Dad O' Blondes  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:02:56pm

Hail Mary,

Full of Grace,
Blessed art thou
Among women

And Blessed is the
Fruit of they womb

Jesus

Holy Mary, Mother of God
Pray for us sinners

Now and at the hour of
our death.

Amen.

.

651 I Need A Bigger Gun  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:03:10pm

re: #54 thedopefishlives

At the time, I lived in the shadow of Chicago O'Hare International Airport's landing pattern. I was never happier to see and hear an airplane in the sky than when the first flights started resuming that next week.

I live about three miles due north of the Orlando International Airport. the sound of incoming and outgoing flights is something that you grow immune to. It becomes nothing more than normal background noise. But the grounding of all air traffic in the wake of the 9/11 attacks

652 I Need A Bigger Gun  Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:04:41pm

re: #651 I Need A Bigger Gun

I live about three miles due north of the Orlando International Airport. the sound of incoming and outgoing flights is something that you grow immune to. It becomes nothing more than normal background noise. But the grounding of all air traffic in the wake of the 9/11 attacks

left a silence that I'll never forget.

(I apologize for the premature posting above).

653 William  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:23:11am

Have a look at this September 17, 2001 interview between Dan Rather and David Letterman, just a week after the attacks:

[Link: freedomagenda.com...]

The hawkish language they use is stunning to see. Interview summary:

* Dan Rather praises GWB for saying "Osama Dead or Alive."

* Dan Rather stresses the issue isn't about 1 man (UBL).

* Rather links Iraq and Saddam as part of the problem we face.

* Rather says we're dealing with "evil."

* Letterman says Dick Cheney is "the real deal" and the US needs to conduct more "dirty business" to get things done.


It's truly stunning to see these two in action one week after 9-11.

654 juanita  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:37:53pm

re: #2 lurking faith

Never forget.

Yes, but for some it is too easy as time goes by. I work in the public schools. No one from the district office sent a memo about lowering the flag (let alone initiating any observance in individual schools) until the middle of the day. Our custodian had not thought to lower the flag himself. No staff thought to remind him. No student noticed. A neighbor called the principal to complain, and the principal went out immediately to put the flag at half mast.

Later, a teacher was at the front doors, about to leave with a class for a walk, and asked out loud: "Who died?" When reminded why, the teacher was incredulous at her thoughtlessness.

655 William  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 5:04:51pm

Here is how Google remembered 9-11 versus everyone else:

[Link: www.examiner.com...]

Bing had a full-color photo of "Tribute in Light" and Ask had a NY City skyline with ghost twin towers.

Google had their normal logo.

656 William  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 5:06:37pm

Ah, just noticed Fox had run a story:

Google Ignores 9/11 as Other Search Engines Commemorate Solemn Anniversary


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The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
3 days ago
Views: 108 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 271 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1