Friday Evening Music: XTC, ‘The Disappointed’
Music • Views: 2,254
From one of XTC’s best records, Nonsuch, this song is called “The Disappointed.”
(Dedicated to the stalker blog.)
750 comments
1 |
karmic_inquisitor Fri, Sep 11, 2009 5:54:49pm |
Still love XTC.
My sons, however, don't think "Mayor of Simpleton" is clever like I do.
Must be a generational thing.
| 2 |
noshariaincanada Fri, Sep 11, 2009 5:54:50pm |
nice to have 2 music threads back 2 back
| 3 |
pat Fri, Sep 11, 2009 5:58:48pm |
The irony of using a parliamentary budget maneuver, reconciliation, to pass a Bill that Obama assures us will have no budgetary impact.
| 5 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:04:28pm |
| 6 |
ArmyWife Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:05:18pm |
HI group! First week of school, need to get back into some sort of schedule. What's new? What'd I miss over the last few days?
| 7 |
karmic_inquisitor Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:06:02pm |
So are the folks at the stalker site burning XTC in effigy right now?
| 8 |
arethusa Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:06:42pm |
Can I just say that one of the benefits of LGF is that it's really expanded my musical horizons? Thank you, Charles.
| 9 |
FrogMarch Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:08:11pm |
My fav. XTC song is that "Mayor of Simpleton" song --just love it.
This one is good too.
| 10 |
ArmyWife Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:08:42pm |
re: #7 karmic_inquisitor
Some groups don't deserve attention- especially when they try so hard to seek it. This is, of course, easy for me to say as I've never been a feature of their attacks being a big nobody! I imagine if I was CJ I might feel differently.
| 11 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:10:49pm |
re: #5 Charles
The whole album is great. One of my all-time favorites.
It helped kick me into a mellow mood.
| 12 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:12:06pm |
re: #6 ArmyWife
HI group! First week of school, need to get back into some sort of schedule. What's new? What'd I miss over the last few days?
We've been back in school for about a month and are just now settling into the routine.
| 13 |
mikalm Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:13:03pm |
My favorite thing ever done by Andy Partridge & Co. is this groovy bit o' retro-psychedelia, under the guise of The Dukes of Stratosphear:
| 15 |
Big Steve Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:14:10pm |
| 17 |
karmic_inquisitor Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:15:20pm |
re: #10 ArmyWife
Some groups don't deserve attention- especially when they try so hard to seek it. This is, of course, easy for me to say as I've never been a feature of their attacks being a big nobody! I imagine if I was CJ I might feel differently.
Yeah - about a ayear ago I went out and looked for the stalker sites after some folks had here had talked about them. How do adults with jobs find time to obsess over things for such a long time? And then they do this obsessing in the public square. It is a fetish.
I suppose Charles should try to take some strange pride in having gotten under the skin of so many people. Most times when someone feels slighted on the internet he moves on. But this is a sort of anti-cult.
| 18 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:15:34pm |
re: #14 Dekar
Anyone in LA feel the space shuttle land?
That was the sonic boom as it entered the atmosphere. Shook the windows in my house.
| 19 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:15:49pm |
re: #14 Dekar
Anyone in LA feel the space shuttle land?
From my head to my toes. Freaking loud!
Badda Boom!
Big Badda Boom!
| 20 |
karmic_inquisitor Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:16:50pm |
re: #19 Racer X
From my head to my toes. Freaking loud!
Badda Boom!
Big Badda Boom!
The Jersey Shuttle?
| 21 |
ArmyWife Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:17:54pm |
re: #12 MandyManners
As organized as you are, I'm not feeling quite so badly anymore! It's tough with the oldest one in College - it is sinking in how much easier she made my life being able to grab the little one and get to the barn everyday after school.
She isn't coming home this weekend - she met a boy at Hampden-Sydney and they are going to a football game. Mr. AW is putting on a game face, but struggling a bit with this!
| 22 |
Big Steve Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:19:00pm |
re: #19 Racer X
From my head to my toes. Freaking loud!
Badda Boom!
Big Badda Boom!
If you ever have a chance, just happen to be in Florida around a launch day, it is definitely one of life's experiences. The sound as the shuttle takes off just penetrates you in a way that seems to bypass your ears and go somehow to your core.
| 24 |
Jetpilot1101 Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:21:38pm |
re: #19 Racer X
From my head to my toes. Freaking loud!
Badda Boom!
Big Badda Boom!
Upding for "The Fifth Element" reference. Mila is hot!
| 25 |
Greengolem64 Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:24:04pm |
re: #22 Big Steve
If you ever have a chance, just happen to be in Florida around a launch day, it is definitely one of life's experiences. The sound as the shuttle takes off just penetrates you in a way that seems to bypass your ears and go somehow to your core.
Glad the west coasters got to 'hear' the shuttle coming in. We live 30 miles south of the Cape and I look forward to the returns as much as the launches...nice to know they are home safe and sound (big sound!!!)
Welcome home Discovery...
| 26 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:26:15pm |
re: #21 ArmyWife
As organized as you are, I'm not feeling quite so badly anymore! It's tough with the oldest one in College - it is sinking in how much easier she made my life being able to grab the little one and get to the barn everyday after school.
She isn't coming home this weekend - she met a boy at Hampden-Sydney and they are going to a football game. Mr. AW is putting on a game face, but struggling a bit with this!
Aw, the baby chick has really left the nest. Was she daddy's little girl? That must smart.
The Kid is in luuuv. He asked me how to get this girl to like him. I told him to be himself, that there is nothing anyone can do to *make* another human like him. He said, "Nonsense. Can I have an advance on my allowance to buy her some roses?"
| 27 |
Danny Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:26:26pm |
Just got back from dinner with the wife. Celebrated our 16th wedding anniversary with some Thai food. Yummy!
| 28 |
experiencedtraveller Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:29:00pm |
| 30 |
ArmyWife Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:32:58pm |
re: #26 MandyManners
Sounds like a smart kid! Both of my girls are Daddy's girls. This has been hard on him, harder than he thought it would be. She still calls him every day, though, which is cute.
| 31 |
BignJames Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:34:54pm |
re: #28 experiencedtraveller
My favorite Springsteen
| 32 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:36:07pm |
re: #6 ArmyWife
HI group! First week of school, need to get back into some sort of schedule. What's new? What'd I miss over the last few days?
Hi, AW.
We've been back in school for a month too (like I saw Mandy say earlier).
It's good to see you! I was wondering where you were.
| 33 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:36:26pm |
re: #30 ArmyWife
Sounds like a smart-assed kid! Both of my girls are Daddy's girls. This has been hard on him, harder than he thought it would be. She still calls him every day, though, which is cute.
| 34 |
ArmyWife Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:43:43pm |
re: #32 reine.de.tout
I'm around, I promise! Right now I'm going to walk the 8 pound beasts and might entice my husband to go to bed earlier. TMI, I know, but hey, we're among friends, right?
| 35 |
Noam Sayin' Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:44:48pm |
We need a big reduction in the price of beer.
| 36 |
Sharmuta Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:44:55pm |
re: #34 ArmyWife
I'm around, I promise! Right now I'm going to walk the 8 pound beasts and might entice my husband to go to bed earlier. TMI, I know, but hey, we're among friends, right?
And countless strangers, some of whom are the stalkers...
| 37 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:45:00pm |
re: #34 ArmyWife
I'm around, I promise! Right now I'm going to walk the 8 pound beasts and might entice my husband to go to bed earlier. TMI, I know, but hey, we're among friends, right?
when you get a chance, would you send me an e-mail? YOu can go to the cookbook blog and get it, or just click my avatar and it's in my profile info.
| 38 |
Digital Display Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:46:09pm |
re: #29 ArmyWife
Hi! How's that Marine?
Hi! They found a nice little house and the young couple are doing very well..
Thank you...After 4 years of Stress we couldn't do any better.. It's all good
And God has blessed our Family and protected our son...
Now he wants to be a State Cop.. I'm like Fuck! Isn't Sears Hiring? Open a gun shop..Buy a Subway franchise...A cop! Are you Kidding?
*wink*
| 40 |
ArmyWife Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:46:56pm |
re: #36 Sharmuta
I hope they don't stalk me or they fact the wrath of the CHIHUAHUAS! (Que ominous music here).
| 41 |
The Shadow Do Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:48:06pm |
I'm thrilled to see the shuttle safely down.
I remember not only 9-11 but also Columbia. Some have made note of the sonic boom over CA tonight.
I grew up an AF kid so heard lots of them before they became a no no. Last one I heard was over TX while having my first cup of coffee of the day. I knew the shuttle was coming down, and I also knew the sonic bubble was not to be burst where I lived. Turning on the TV confirmed my worst fear, "the Columbia is overdue..."
Awful
| 44 |
Sharmuta Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:52:43pm |
re: #40 ArmyWife
I hope they don't stalk me or they fact the wrath of the CHIHUAHUAS! (Que ominous music here).
I certainly hope they leave you alone. But it is reality that unfriendly eyes are watching, AW. We shouldn't lose sight of that.
| 45 |
Russkilitlover Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:53:16pm |
re: #28 experiencedtraveller
9-11 memorial.
Into the Fire by Springsteen.
In honor of the 411 emergency workers KIA 9-11-01.
Can't stand Springsteen - like nails on a chalkboard - but love this song and its tribute. Thanks.
| 46 |
Digital Display Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:55:10pm |
re: #45 Russkilitlover
Can't stand Springsteen - like nails on a chalkboard - but love this song and its tribute. Thanks.
He's not the Boss of Me!
/
| 47 |
Russkilitlover Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:56:46pm |
re: #19 Racer X
From my head to my toes. Freaking loud!
Badda Boom!
Big Badda Boom!
NASA actually reimbursed my company for a couple of blown out windows after a shuttle landing in California. Took 11 months, but hey, I got kudos for the reimbursement!
| 48 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:57:17pm |
| 49 |
Big Steve Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:57:57pm |
| 50 |
The Shadow Do Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:59:46pm |
Anyone else watching some of the retrospectives and documentaries about 9-11 tonight.
I have not forgotten. I want revenge. Still now, and forever.
| 51 |
The Shadow Do Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:01:04pm |
And ain't it grand how good KSM looks today. Ya'll see his recent glamor shot photos?
Sick
I am mad
| 52 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:03:50pm |
How I wish you could see the potential
The potential of you and me
It's like a book elegantly bound
But in a language you can't read just yetYou got to spend some time, love
You got to spend some time with me
And I know that you'll find love
I will possess your heartYou got to spend some time, love
You got to spend some time with me
And I know that you'll find love
I will possess your heartThere are days when outside your window
I see my reflection as I slowly pass
And I long for this mirrored perspective
When we'll be lovers, lovers at lastYou got to spend some time, love
You got to spend some time with me
And I know that you'll find love
I will possess your heartYou got to spend some time, love
You got to spend some time with me
And I know that you'll find love
I will possess your heartI will possess your heart
I will possess your heartYou reject my advances and desperate pleas
I won't let you let me down so easily
So easilyYou got to spend some time, love
You got to spend some time with me
And I know that you'll find love
I will possess your heartYou got to spend some time, love
You got to spend some time with me
And I know that you'll find love
I will possess your heartYou got to spend some time, love
You got to spend some time with me
And I know that you'll find love
I will possess your heartI will possess your heart
I will possess your heart
Trendy love ballad?
Or creepy stalker manifesto?
You decide.
| 54 |
Digital Display Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:04:35pm |
re: #49 Big Steve
I sure that job is taken by Mrs HoosierHoops
*falls to knees*
Dear lord.. If you could just talk the mrs into letting me drink something stronger than a bud light..And also...Can I please have my Merlot back? It's not my fault what happened last year on the highway...I didn't force her to drink warm wine..Why blame me? I think she is projecting...
/She doesn't remember much that night...
but I remember that it's always a great shower when you get out feeling dirtier than you went in...
//Merlot is blacklisted currently
| 56 |
The Shadow Do Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:06:22pm |
| 57 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:06:45pm |
re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist
I like No. 7.
My favorite was the guy with the Blues Clues paw tattooed on his face. Really cool dude!
/get a clue!
| 58 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:07:39pm |
re: #52 Racer X
Trendy love ballad?
Or creepy stalker manifesto?You decide.
Come on, have a heart, will ya?
| 59 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:09:00pm |
Chewbacca. Backed by the Irish flag? (#24)
Still not as funny as Pac-Man butt.
| 60 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:11:31pm |
re: #54 HoosierHoops
I remember that it's always a great shower when you get out feeling dirtier than you went in...
//
You are a philosopher.
| 62 |
Locker Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:13:05pm |
re: #40 ArmyWife
I hope they don't stalk me or they fact the wrath of the CHIHUAHUAS! (Que ominous music here).
Hehe my daughter has a sign in her front window that says "Papillion Security". Dangle is a good watch dog but his "wrath" just makes me laugh uncontrollably.
| 63 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:14:20pm |
Just...just...huh?
[Link: www.ktla.com...]
| 64 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:14:38pm |
| 65 |
Digital Display Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:15:09pm |
re: #60 Spare O'Lake
You are a philosopher.
Well that's never been said in the whole history of the world...But I do try to have a sense of humor..
| 66 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:15:20pm |
I like this one, especially the can.
[Link: www.ktla.com...]
| 67 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:15:51pm |
| 68 |
Radicchio ad Absurdum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:16:27pm |
Just saw something about the census bureau severing ties with ACORN.
| 69 |
Sharmuta Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:17:17pm |
re: #61 MandyManners
Wow- that's some serious self-hatred to tattoo your face so you look like a skeleton. Just... wow.
| 71 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:17:49pm |
re: #68 Radicchio ad Absurdum
Just saw something about the census bureau severing ties with ACORN.
Huh?
| 72 |
Radicchio ad Absurdum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:18:51pm |
| 73 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:19:07pm |
re: #69 Sharmuta
Wow- that's some serious self-hatred to tattoo your face so you look like a skeleton. Just... wow.
Are we talking about the smae one, the one with the woman?
| 74 |
Sharmuta Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:19:55pm |
re: #73 MandyManners
I flipped through a couple of them. Can't recall the number-6? 7? Just disturbing.
| 75 |
Coracle Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:20:26pm |
re: #73 MandyManners
Are we talking about the smae one, the one with the woman?
There's one with a guy tatting his face to look like a skull.
| 76 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:20:29pm |
| 77 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:21:04pm |
In splitting with ACORN, Groves sought to tamp down GOP concerns and negative publicity that the partnership will taint the 2010 head count.
''It is clear that ACORN's affiliation with the 2010 census promotion has caused sufficient concern in the general public, has indeed become a distraction from our mission, and may even become a discouragement to public cooperation, negatively impacting 2010 census efforts,'' Groves wrote.
SNIP
| 78 |
Radicchio ad Absurdum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:21:13pm |
| 79 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:21:21pm |
re: #72 Radicchio ad Absurdum
Yeah, we've only been discussing it most of the day.
''It is clear that ACORN's affiliation with the 2010 census promotion has caused sufficient concern in the general public, has indeed become a distraction from our mission, and may even become a discouragement to public cooperation, negatively impacting 2010 census efforts,'' Groves wrote.
The Census Bureau dropped ACORN because of the political fake outrage over their participation in the census. Not because of any wrongdoing.
In other words, the climate of demonization and fear cowed some diplomats into caving in.
| 80 |
Sharmuta Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:21:55pm |
re: #75 Coracle
There's one with a guy tatting his face to look like a skull.
Therapy would have been cheaper in the long run, perhaps than the cost of tats, and the cost of removal, should he ever desire a normal face again.
Oh- and good luck to him getting laid with a face like that.
| 81 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:22:00pm |
| 82 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:22:52pm |
I see John Rohan is still hanging out in the Powerline thread, dinging down comments that support LGF and dinging up comments that trash me.
| 83 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:23:25pm |
re: #68 Radicchio ad Absurdum
Just saw something about the census bureau severing ties with ACORN.
That is so terribly (*whine*) unfair.
Whatever happened to the presumption of (*whine*) innocence?
*whine*
*whine*
| 84 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:24:18pm |
I wonder if the footage of the Baltimore ACORN workers telling the cameraman how to deal with taxes for an illegal, underage alien hooker lent weight to Groves' decision. Or, the recent arrests of 11 ACORN workers for voter registration fraud?
| 85 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:25:09pm |
re: #82 Charles
I see John Rohan is still hanging out in the Powerline thread, dinging down comments that support LGF and dinging up comments that trash me.
Well, I dinged you up just for that!
| 86 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:26:06pm |
History Channel has been playing amatuer footage from that day.
| 88 |
Dustoff-507 Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:26:17pm |
Charles.
This might be something to talk about?
It affects us all!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The president’s chief economic adviser warned Friday that the nation’s unemployment rate could stay “unacceptably high” for years to come — a situation that would seriously complicate Barack Obama’s ability to convince Americans that he’s beating back the recession.
Read more: [Link: www.politico.com...]
| 91 |
cliffster Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:27:06pm |
re: #84 MandyManners
I wonder if the footage of the Baltimore ACORN workers telling the cameraman how to deal with taxes for an illegal, underage alien hooker lent weight to Groves' decision. Or, the recent arrests of 11 ACORN workers for voter registration fraud?
Perhaps the followup on ACORN's expertise in under-the-radar prostitution in DC, one day later?
| 92 |
ladycatnip Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:27:43pm |
A statement from a top ACORN exec was read on talk radio - that Fox was complicit in this, they duped ACORN, it was a set-up, that it was all Fox's fault, that it was race-based, that this was done to discredit Obama's health care plan (?!), whine, whine, whine. Unbelievable.
| 93 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:27:49pm |
re: #91 cliffster
Perhaps the followup on ACORN's expertise in under-the-radar prostitution in DC, one day later?
Huh?
| 94 |
ArmyWife Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:28:11pm |
re: #44 Sharmuta
Sharm, I appreciate your concern. I really do.
| 95 |
The Shadow Do Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:28:21pm |
9-11-2001
10:28 AM
The second tower collapses.
9-11-09
9.28 PM Central Time
KSM is in Gitmo, looking like a million bucks
| 96 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:28:22pm |
re: #92 ladycatnip
A statement from a top ACORN exec was read on talk radio - that Fox was complicit in this, they duped ACORN, it was a set-up, that it was all Fox's fault, that it was race-based, that this was done to discredit Obama's health care plan (?!), whine, whine, whine. Unbelievable.
What in the world?! Talk about chutzpah!
| 98 |
Sharmuta Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:30:05pm |
re: #94 ArmyWife
No one deserves the treatment the people at the stalker blog dish out.
| 99 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:30:48pm |
| 100 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:30:58pm |
re: #97 Charles
The flounce rate is accelerating.
How soon before that one shows up at the stalker site?
| 101 |
jaunte Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:31:24pm |
Through early evening fog I see
visions of the things to be
email address withheld from me
I realize that I can't see...
That flouncing off is painless
It won't make any changes
Get off the lizard's carpet if you please
| 102 |
ArmyWife Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:31:37pm |
re: #93 MandyManners
Yep! And said very similar things - like the watched some training tape on just this topic or something. Of course, Baltimore and DC aren't bastions of morality, either, mind you.
| 103 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:31:56pm |
re: #88 Dustoff-507
Even with his gloomy forecast for unemployment, Summers said the economy is getting better and made the case that Obama’s $787 billion stimulus package and other fiscal rescue steps headed off even more economic pain.
“We are making a clear transition from rescue as a priority of public policy to sustained recovery,” Summers said. “We have moved back from the brink of financial catastrophe.”
“Today, the question is, when will the recession phase end?” Summers said. He said the forecast is “for economic growth at a significant rate during the second half of 2009.”
Obama will have problems but by the time re-election rolls around the economu will probably be in pretty good shape.
| 104 |
cliffster Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:32:00pm |
re: #93 MandyManners
Google ACORN PROSTITUTION DC, or go to the biggovernment.com site and scroll down to DC ACORN VIDEO. Same story, one day later.
| 105 |
Sharmuta Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:32:09pm |
Have a good evening, Lizards. I'm off to have some drinks with a friend.
May peace be with you all tonight, and with the families of our lost.
Never forget.
| 106 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:32:45pm |
| 107 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:33:02pm |
re: #102 ArmyWife
Yep! And said very similar things - like the watched some training tape on just this topic or something. Of course, Baltimore and DC aren't bastions of morality, either, mind you.
What city is?
| 108 |
ladycatnip Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:33:13pm |
#96 Mandy
You've got that right. They said in their defense that no tax returns were filed, no money exchanged hands, etc.
This is a perfect example of killing the messenger. Since the dj's read her statement over the airways, I'll Google and see if I can find the exact wording, as I'm terrible at remembering anything verbatim. It was hysterical though.
| 109 |
ArmyWife Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:33:14pm |
re: #98 Sharmuta
I've only been there twice at most, and that is when curiosity from a comment here sent me there - it was...interesting. I'll leave it at that.
| 110 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:33:36pm |
re: #104 cliffster
Google ACORN PROSTITUTION DC, or go to the biggovernment.com site and scroll down to DC ACORN VIDEO. Same story, one day later.
How many fired so far?
| 111 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:33:38pm |
An earlier flounceling came back with a sock puppet a few minutes ago and down-dinged the powerline thread.
They're really worked up into a lather tonight.
| 112 |
Coracle Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:34:23pm |
re: #110 MandyManners
How many fired so far?
Both people in the video, from an article I saw earlier.
| 113 |
ArmyWife Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:34:25pm |
re: #107 MandyManners
East Podunk. Most are better than Balimore and DC, barring perhaps Chicago!
| 114 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:34:37pm |
re: #108 ladycatnip
#96 Mandy
You've got that right. They said in their defense that no tax returns were filed, no money exchanged hands, etc.
This is a perfect example of killing the messenger. Since the dj's read her statement over the airways, I'll Google and see if I can find the exact wording, as I'm terrible at remembering anything verbatim. It was hysterical though.
I wonder if any prosecutors are looking into either.
| 115 |
cliffster Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:34:44pm |
| 116 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:35:30pm |
re: #111 Charles
An earlier flounceling came back with a sock puppet a few minutes ago and down-dinged the powerline thread.
They're really worked up into a lather tonight.
Considering the date, I think a lot of people are but, that's no excuse to go off on you.
| 117 |
Dar ul Harbarian Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:35:49pm |
Flounce rate? This is new to me. Define.
| 118 |
Coracle Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:35:54pm |
re: #114 MandyManners
I wonder if any prosecutors are looking into either.
Private video is apparently not admissible in court. Plus, scummy as it all was, there doesn't seem to be any actual crime captured.
| 119 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:35:59pm |
re: #112 Coracle
Both people in the video, from an article I saw earlier.
Shouldn't their supervisors be fired, too?
| 120 |
Dustoff-507 Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:36:24pm |
re: #103 Killgore Trout
Hmmm, not if health care and god knows what else passes.
We can only spend just SO far bud.
| 121 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:36:28pm |
| 122 |
cliffster Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:36:36pm |
re: #97 Charles
The flounce rate is accelerating.
Aren't you running out of permutations of letters and numbers to make a username?
| 123 |
Digital Display Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:36:51pm |
re: #87 krkrawiec
You know you really need to visit to resource page...
Charles offers a full featured set of flounce off templates for your convenience.
Whether it's Religious, Political, Neo-Nazi's or for customize stories...LGF is here for you...For $9.95 you can join the platinum club. Customize templates just for you...
Has anyone of you fucking morons ever considered just going the hell away and not coming back? It's not really that a difficult concept...
You are acting worse than children..You need a time out
| 124 |
karmic_inquisitor Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:36:56pm |
Looks like we are going to be imposing punitive tariffs on Chinese Tires
[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]
At Politico they are inferring that this is a bone to the United Steelworkers. They quote AP saying that the decision "could anger [China], a strategically important Asian powerhouse, but placate union supporters important to his health care push at home."
| 126 |
Coracle Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:37:12pm |
re: #119 MandyManners
Shouldn't their supervisors be fired, too?
Dunno. Article said they were temps or recent hires or something. Standard CYA stuff, which implies its unlikely we'll see any higher ups taking responsibility.
| 127 |
ArmyWife Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:37:21pm |
re: #113 ArmyWife
OK, when you spell the city you lived in for 7 years wrongly, it is time to go to bed. For reals this time. Ciao all.
(I should have said East Jablip. My admin used to say that all the time with her Jersey accent and it cracked me up. "We have to park in East Jablip!" Ok, nightsie noodles!)
| 128 |
MandyManners Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:37:23pm |
re: #118 Coracle
Private video is apparently not admissible in court. Plus, scummy as it all was, there doesn't seem to be any actual crime captured.
I wish the feds would open a RICO investigation into ACORN.
| 129 |
cliffster Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:38:04pm |
re: #119 MandyManners
Shouldn't their supervisors be fired, too?
How about if we fire ACORN, and distribute their earmarked 5 or so billion dollars to us individual Americans to pay our mortgages?
| 130 |
jaunte Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:38:25pm |
re: #117 Dar ul Harbarian
Flounce rate? This is new to me. Define.
Frequency of commenters making pompous public demands that Charles cancel their accounts forthwith, or committing house rules hara-kiri.
| 132 |
Killian Bundy Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:38:48pm |
State's Attorney Considers Prosecuting ACORN Video Posters
The Baltimore city state's attorney is considering prosecuting those responsible for taping the ACORN employees on charges that they violated Maryland's wiretap laws.
STATEMENT OF STATE’S ATTORNEYS OFFICE FOR BALTIMORE CITY RELATIVE TO THE ALLEGED BALTIMORE ACORN INCIDENT
Baltimore, MD – September 11, 2009 – We have received inquiries from citizens and the media asking whether the Baltimore City State’s Attorneys Office would initiate a criminal investigation for acts allegedly committed at ACORN offices located in Baltimore. The only information received in reference to this alleged criminal behavior was a YouTube video. Upon review by this office, the video appears to be incomplete. In addition, the audio portion could possibly have been obtained in violation of Maryland Law, Annotated Code of Maryland Courts and Judicial Proceedings Article §10-402, which requires two party consent.
If it is determined that the audio portion now being heard on YouTube was illegally obtained, it is also illegal under Maryland Law to willfully use or willfully disclose the content of said audio. The penalty for the unlawful interception, disclosure or use of it is a felony punishable up to 5 years.
/priorities
| 134 |
ladycatnip Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:39:42pm |
#114 Mandy Mannders
I wonder if any prosecutors are looking into either.
I don't see how they can escape that unless a directive comes from the WH to lay off - which would be a huge mistake for Obama and I don't think he'd do that.
One of the issues brought up in the second sting was sex slaves - at least that's what the radio hosts were saying - when they played back the tapes I could neither understand nor hear that because it was too garbled. So I'll check up on that as well.
| 135 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:39:56pm |
IOW's, this week has been REAL busy, with packing and driving and unpacking and all.
| 136 |
Dar ul Harbarian Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:41:14pm |
re: #130 jaunte
Frequency of commenters making pompous public demands that Charles cancel their accounts forthwith, or committing house rules hara-kiri.
I call those "temper tanturums"
| 137 |
The Shadow Do Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:41:16pm |
9-11-2001
9:30 AM Eastern: It's over, the buildings are down. All dead but one.
9-11-2009
10:40 PM Eastern: KSM still looking great in his latest photo shoot.
| 138 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:41:25pm |
re: #54 HoosierHoops
I'm giving the liver a break tonight. But I got a bottle of "moonshine" wine last night. Raspberry...2008...
| 139 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:41:46pm |
re: #131 Irenicum
East Jablip?
(Shamelessly stolen from Armywife!)
| 140 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:41:48pm |
re: #135 Irenicum
IOW's, this week has been REAL busy, with packing and driving and unpacking and all.
You live in your car?
| 142 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:41:58pm |
re: #120 Dustoff-507
His poll numbers will bounce around but I think he'll be fine. Anything can happen but I expect Obama to be a two term president.
| 143 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:43:03pm |
re: #140 Spare O'Lake
I almost thought I would be! I moved to Mass. to go to Grad school. I came not knowing if I would have housing. Thankfully I do!
| 144 |
Dar ul Harbarian Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:43:27pm |
| 145 |
cliffster Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:44:03pm |
re: #142 Killgore Trout
His poll numbers will bounce around but I think he'll be fine. Anything can happen but I expect Obama to be a two term president.
Two terms?? Try five-term. Don't you know he's going to declare martial law at the end of his second term, suspend the electoral process, and appoint himself the General of America?
| 146 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:44:09pm |
re: #139 Floral Giraffe
Take any Jersey accent and multiply it a few dozen times, and you get a north shore Boston accent!
| 147 |
Coracle Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:44:55pm |
re: #145 cliffster
Two terms?? Try five-term. Don't you know he's going to declare martial law at the end of his second term, suspend the electoral process, and appoint himself the General of America?
Like both Clinton and Bush were going to do?
| 150 |
ladycatnip Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:45:23pm |
Googled the sex slave bit and it's all there - ACORN was talking about underage girls from South America.
| 152 |
Coracle Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:45:47pm |
re: #146 Irenicum
Take any Jersey accent and multiply it a few dozen times, and you get a north shore Boston accent!
Wicked ahesome.
| 153 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:45:59pm |
re: #149 Bear
Thank you so much! It's been crazy, but I love it!
| 156 |
karmic_inquisitor Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:46:54pm |
re: #128 MandyManners
I wish the feds would open a RICO investigation into ACORN.
I am trying to put together some numbers on Enron indictments vs ACORN.
Enron had about 30 people indicted. So far I am seeing numbers of about 50 ACORN people, but not from sources that are authoritative. So I am still looking here and there but not spending much time on it.
But I am familiar with white collar crime and know that an organization does create the culture that spawns the activity. Once it is OK to pretend that lines are fuzzy that are in fact clear, and once you reward those who get results by playing the fuzzy line, you set off a motivations and tolerances that cultivate illegal activity. Doesn't matter if you are doing it to "save the company" or "to blow out your bonus". Or even for "social justice".
| 157 |
Dar ul Harbarian Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:46:57pm |
re: #143 Irenicum
I almost thought I would be! I moved to Mass. to go to Grad school. I came not knowing if I would have housing. Thankfully I do!
I knew some grad students who lived in an abandoned and condemned house.
| 158 |
cliffster Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:47:24pm |
re: #150 ladycatnip
Googled the sex slave bit and it's all there - ACORN was talking about underage girls from South America.
I think it was El Salvador.. not sure that's far enough south to put it in South America, but yeah :)
| 160 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:47:52pm |
re: #155 Coracle
I'm really looking forward to Fenway park!
| 161 |
karmic_inquisitor Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:48:18pm |
re: #145 cliffster
Two terms?? Try five-term. Don't you know he's going to declare martial law at the end of his second term, suspend the electoral process, and appoint himself the General of America?
LOL
| 162 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:48:26pm |
re: #150 ladycatnip
Googled the sex slave bit and it's all there - ACORN was talking about underage girls from South America.
To be fair, it was two employees of ACORN, who have since been fired. The vid in question shows ACORN's Baltimore office to be guilty of extremely bad personnel choices, but it's not the basis for a RICO case.
| 163 |
Digital Display Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:49:00pm |
re: #131 Irenicum
Hey gang, it's been a while. Guess where I live now?
In the middle of Corn fields..In fact as far as the eye can see?
Hawaii? A mob bosses' house in Jersey? A hippie farm outside of Denver?
Running drugs across the Mexican border?
Mexico..( And the Dog is looking for you?)
Europe at a Internet Cafe sipping Latte's laughing at your family in Iowa..
It doesn't anything to do with a Saudi Prince does it?
OK Grad School?
/Congrads and best wishes!
| 164 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:49:21pm |
re: #143 Irenicum
I almost thought I would be! I moved to Mass. to go to Grad school. I came not knowing if I would have housing. Thankfully I do!
Ah yes, grad school...enjoy, the next few should be among the best years of your life!
| 165 |
Coracle Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:49:39pm |
| 166 |
Dar ul Harbarian Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:49:49pm |
re: #145 cliffster
Two terms?? Try five-term. Don't you know he's going to declare martial law at the end of his second term, suspend the electoral process, and appoint himself the General of America?
I wouldn't put some Chavez moves past him but getting around the constitutional limits is pretty unlikely.
| 168 |
Russkilitlover Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:50:35pm |
re: #98 Sharmuta
No one deserves the treatment the people at the stalker blog dish out.
In all fairness, some fine former LGFers didn't deserve the vilification they received here, either. goddessoftheclassroom to name but one.
Just sayin'
| 169 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:50:41pm |
re: #163 HoosierHoops
Man, some of those other options sound pretty sweet! But I'll take where I am.
| 170 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:51:27pm |
re: #168 Russkilitlover
In all fairness, some fine former LGFers didn't deserve the vilification they received here, either. goddessoftheclassroom to name but one.
Just sayin'
If you hang out with people who threaten my life on a regular basis you have no right at all to complain that people say mean things about you.
| 171 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:52:21pm |
re: #168 Russkilitlover
Are you posting comments at the stalker blog, too?
| 172 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:53:11pm |
| 173 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:53:50pm |
re: #146 Irenicum
LOL!
Sister did grad school in Bahstawn.
| 174 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:54:56pm |
How does "taking the fifth" work again?
Just wondering...
| 175 |
Russkilitlover Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:55:20pm |
re: #171 Charles
Are you posting comments at the stalker blog, too?
Uh, no. Like I said, "just sayin'." I'm not into blog wars. But like all things in life, I see the righteous indignation of both sides. It's not pretty. It's also not exclusive.
| 176 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:55:24pm |
re: #173 Floral Giraffe
I love this area. I can't wait to hit the downtown area either tomorrow or Sunday afternoon. We're having a clamfest for everyone tomorrow afternoon, so I can't miss that!
| 177 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:55:55pm |
Stalker blog is causing a serious rift.
Can't we just totally ignore them?
| 178 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:56:04pm |
Lincolntf is over at the stalker blog. He reposted his flounce and is wearing the imprint of Charles' boot on his ass as a badge of honor. I wish I could say I'm surprised, but I'm not. (I wasn't here for the thread he flounced on)
| 179 |
Russkilitlover Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:56:26pm |
| 180 |
Mich-again Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:56:30pm |
| 181 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:56:42pm |
re: #177 Racer X
Stalker blog is causing a serious rift.
Can't we just totally ignore them?
No. I'm finished ignoring them. I plan to expose them every chance I get.
| 182 |
Dar ul Harbarian Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:56:55pm |
re: #170 Charles
If you hang out with people who threaten my life on a regular basis you have no right at all to complain that people say mean things about you.
Ok. I have a real life and many people depend upon me. So, forgive me if I'm not up to speed, but what is a "stalker blog"?
| 183 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:57:07pm |
re: #176 Irenicum
Oreo Milkshakes, when it's snowing. Crazy place!
So thick, you needed a spoon!
| 184 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:57:20pm |
re: #177 Racer X
Stalker blog is causing a serious rift.
Can't we just totally ignore them?
No, because they keep infiltrating here and agitating against us elsewhere. Ignoring an enemy is a good way to find a knife in your back.
| 185 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:57:21pm |
re: #178 Dark_Falcon
Lincolntf is over at the stalker blog. He reposted his flounce and is wearing the imprint of Charles' boot on his ass as a badge of honor. I wish I could say I'm surprised, but I'm not. (I wasn't here for the thread he flounced on)
Good riddance. That person is a ranting fanatic and LGF is much better without him. Like all of the people at the stalker blog.
| 186 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:57:49pm |
re: #183 Floral Giraffe
I lived for 12 years in lake effect alley in Mich., so I'm prepared!
| 187 |
Russkilitlover Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:58:08pm |
| 188 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:58:36pm |
re: #183 Floral Giraffe
Though I do like the name Oreo Milkshakes for snow. I'll hafta remember that one!
| 189 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:59:14pm |
re: #123 HoosierHoops
They need the street cred of being banned to be accepted at lgf2.
| 190 |
karmic_inquisitor Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:59:27pm |
re: #162 Dark_Falcon
To be fair, it was two employees of ACORN, who have since been fired. The vid in question shows ACORN's Baltimore office to be guilty of extremely bad personnel choices, but it's not the basis for a RICO case.
RICO is a high bar. It was developed to go after organized crime. It is very difficult to secure indictments (let alone convictions) of the top echelons of any corrupt organization. The folks doing the dirty work usually get bagged but that is about it.
As for ACORN, I doubt they'd be subject to a widespread investigation. What is likely to happen is that the same activist tactics they have employed under the pretense of being politically neutral will be used against them by people presenting the pretense that they are neutral.
Live by the sword ...
| 191 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 7:59:40pm |
re: #181 Charles
No. I'm finished ignoring them. I plan to expose them every chance I get.
Charles, you did ban Rain of Lead, right? Cause he is posting over there now.
| 192 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:00:03pm |
| 193 |
MJ Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:00:30pm |
re: #82 Charles
I see John Rohan is still hanging out in the Powerline thread, dinging down comments that support LGF and dinging up comments that trash me.
Who is John Rohan?
| 194 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:00:46pm |
re: #192 Charles
Yes.
Good. I suspected you had already seen his turncoat routine. Just staying heads up.
| 195 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:00:50pm |
| 197 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:02:34pm |
re: #147 Coracle
Like both Clinton and Bush were going to do?
Clinton get hit with that as well? I don't remember that. Now, just year before last I was arguing with a student who was convinced Bush was going to stay on as Grand Tyrant of the NAU.
| 198 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:02:38pm |
The latest hate mail from a good conservative (bringing the total to 29 for the day):
Hey douche nozzle, how come no post on the anti-abortion (pro life)
activist that was shot and killed today in Michigan? Where is the
righteous indignation that a innocent life was taken? What... oh I
know... it probably wasn't a crazy right winger that did it this time.
Perhaps it was one of your own that did it. Is that right? Am I close?And not a word from you about ACORN and their new problems?? What's
wrong Charles cat got your tongue? The house of cards your precious
Obama has built seems to be starting to crumble. Awe... that's too bad
no appointment for you, I bet you were counting on a job with maybe...
hmm... let's see... I know the Department of Misinformation. You could
have been the Propaganda Czar you could have been in charge of "iffy
rhetoric." Oh well... maybe another time, maybe next time America
decides to give another Marxist a chance. The people are starting to
wake up Charles... be careful they may be looking for people like you.
Just through that in to make you a little more paranoid... if that is
possible.Seems more and more that people are catching on to your phony baloney
plastic banana game, seeing you for what you truly are, a failure,
loser, and a liar, and not even that good of a liar.No regards,
Bill
IP blocked.
| 199 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:02:44pm |
re: #188 Irenicum
Oops, no, EATING Oreo Milkshakes while walking in the snow.
Cold on the inside & outside.
| 200 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:03:09pm |
Not to offend my Bostonian friends here, but Derek Jeter just broke Lou Gehrig's record for hits. Man he's amazing! I love that guy. A class act all the way!
| 201 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:03:43pm |
re: #196 Irenicum
LOL!
I grew up in Boston; now live about 40 miles west. But I got rid of my Bahstahn accent.
| 202 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:04:53pm |
I'm turning off the contact form now. It's been the source of a constant barrage of hate mail all day long.
I may just turn it off for good.
| 203 |
Coracle Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:05:09pm |
re: #201 Kosh's Shadow
I grew up in Boston; now live about 40 miles west. But I got rid of my Bahstahn accent.
I was cured? altered? by a long stint in the midwest.
| 204 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:05:16pm |
re: #198 Charles
What a loser. We discussed all that, but I guess he missed it.
That's what happens when there are holes in his head; things fall right out.
| 205 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:05:28pm |
re: #199 Floral Giraffe
Ah, wow. My bad. Though I still think I'll call really bad snowstorms Oreo Milkshakes now. So there!
| 206 |
Coracle Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:06:08pm |
re: #200 Irenicum
Not to offend my Bostonian friends here, but Derek Jeter just broke Lou Gehrig's record for hits. Man he's amazing! I love that guy. A class act all the way!
You know we're used to disappointment. But things come around. Even if it takes 80-odd years.
| 207 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:06:29pm |
re: #203 Coracle
I was cured? altered? by a long stint in the midwest.
I went to college in Wistah, and when I started to pick up that accent, I got rid of both.
Midwest? Do you warsh in warter?
It seems the ah's (r's) from Bahstahn went to the midewst because they weren't getting used.
| 208 |
SteveC Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:06:37pm |
re: #204 Kosh's Shadow
What a loser. We discussed all that, but I guess he missed it.
That's what happens when there are holes in his head; things fall right out.
A little too open minded, if you ask me...!
| 209 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:07:07pm |
re: #202 Charles
I'm turning off the contact form now. It's been the source of a constant barrage of hate mail all day long.
I may just turn it off for good.
How about replacing it with a hate mail form letter. Assholes can fill out whether they think you are a socialist or Satan-worshiper and choose from a selection of insults. The form would then go directly into the junk mail folder.
/kidding
| 210 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:07:21pm |
re: #201 Kosh's Shadow
Is 40 miles to the west all it takes? Wow!
| 211 |
Coracle Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:07:37pm |
re: #207 Kosh's Shadow
I went to college in Wistah, and when I started to pick up that accent, I got rid of both.
Midwest? Do you warsh in warter?
It seems the ah's (r's) from Bahstahn went to the midewst because they weren't getting used.
Exactly. In me they cancelled out, and now I have no accent of any kind whatsoever. Completely Neutral American English.
| 212 |
Digital Display Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:08:10pm |
re: #201 Kosh's Shadow
I grew up in Boston; now live about 40 miles west. But I got rid of my Bahstahn accent.
I got to visit Boston a few times..I really like that city..My great regret was not riding the ducks on the bay..Dumb
| 213 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:08:46pm |
By the way, I NEVER received anywhere near this amount of abusive, obscene, and frankly psychotic mail from leftists when I was mocking them mercilessly for years.
The insane hate coming from the right wing nuts who feel "betrayed" because I won't join them in the sewers is like nothing I've ever experienced.
| 214 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:09:05pm |
re: #210 Irenicum
Is 40 miles to the west all it takes? Wow!
No, I had to work at it. See my later post.
| 215 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:09:16pm |
re: #207 Kosh's Shadow
I went to college in Wistah, and when I started to pick up that accent, I got rid of both.
Midwest? Do you warsh in warter?
It seems the ah's (r's) from Bahstahn went to the midewst because they weren't getting used.
My high school best friend went to college at Mt. Holyoke (we both grew up in San Fran). She stayed on--I fled home--and has been living in the Boston area now for nearly twenty years. The accent is growing on her.
| 216 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:09:46pm |
re: #207 Kosh's Shadow
It's funny about r's. When I was in Mich., the only time people noticed any New Yawker accent from me was when I said quarter. Almost nothing else I said had a New York accent, but quarter did. Go figure.
| 217 |
SummerSong Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:09:52pm |
| 218 |
SteveC Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:10:39pm |
re: #213 Charles
By the way, I NEVER received anywhere near the amount of abusive, obscene, and frankly psychotic mail from leftists when I was mocking them mercilessly for years.
The insane hate coming from the right wing nuts who feel "betrayed" because I won't join them in the sewers is like nothing I've ever experienced.
My mom always told me not to play in the sewer. I'm sure your mom did the same.
Moms are smart.
| 219 |
Randall Gross Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:11:52pm |
re: #82 Charles
Looking at his blogroll and team members ought to give you a clue as to why.
| 221 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:12:23pm |
Hey Friday Night Lizards!
WTF is happened with ACORN? I did a google and the top results are from Fox News and the Weekly Standard. Isn't this news?
How are you-all and what are talking about?
| 222 |
Coracle Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:12:26pm |
re: #213 Charles
I was told once on this very blog that the difference between Conservatives and Liberals is that Conservatives thing Liberals are people with bad ideas, but Liberals think Conservatives are bad people. I knew that was true for the fringe of both sides - and still only true for the fringe, but I don't think I was able to convince anyone in that conversation. Perhaps the case is stronger now.
| 223 |
Mich-again Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:12:51pm |
Went to the kids HS football game in Adrian tonight. Tomorrow we're going to the Big House for the UM-ND game. Ahh football season!
| 224 |
Dar ul Harbarian Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:13:03pm |
re: #202 Charles
I'm turning off the contact form now. It's been the source of a constant barrage of hate mail all day long.
I may just turn it off for good.
I don't get how you deal with that shit.
It really takes something to deal with having rotten vegetables (and worse) thrown at you all day. That guy who emailed you sounds like he needs an echo chamber and is pissed you won't supply it to him. He should start his own blog.
| 225 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:13:10pm |
re: #212 HoosierHoops
I got to visit Boston a few times..I really like that city..My great regret was not riding the ducks on the bay..Dumb
I haven't ridden the duck boats either, despite working near the Pru where they were based, and walking by them, trying to get around the tourists blocking the sidewalks.
(I don't work there any more, though)
BTW, I was able to figure out some of the ducks are actual old military vehicles, and some are new construction. After a bit, you can tell them apart, because the new ones have the bus part go all the way to the stern; they were designed for the purpose. The older ones have a bit of deck left there. There are some other differences as well, but it has been too long.
However, they're new; the Swan Boats are more of the real Boston.
One thing Boston gave me is an excellent sense of direction; it is very hard for me to get lost. Otherwise, I'd still be wandering around, like Charlie on the MTA. (I wonder why Charlie's wife never stuck a nickel in with the sandwich she'd hand Charlie. Maybe she didn't want him back.)
| 226 |
Randall Gross Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:14:02pm |
A classic
| 227 |
SteveC Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:14:10pm |
Thompson Twins! Lay your hands on me!
Cover your ears if you don't like it loud! :)
| 228 |
Gus Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:14:33pm |
re: #82 Charles
I see John Rohan is still hanging out in the Powerline thread, dinging down comments that support LGF and dinging up comments that trash me.
He links to Gates of Vienna and The Brussels Journal at his blog.
| 229 |
BignJames Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:15:10pm |
re: #213 Charles
By the way, I NEVER received anywhere near the amount of abusive, obscene, and frankly psychotic mail from leftists when I was mocking them mercilessly for years.
The insane hate coming from the right wing nuts who feel "betrayed" because I won't join them in the sewers is like nothing I've ever experienced.
I don't get it...what do they hope to accomplish? Behave like freaks in the hopes that a majority of people will join them and somehow topple the status quo?...Ain't happn'in.
| 230 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:15:40pm |
re: #222 Coracle
I was told once on this very blog that the difference between Conservatives and Liberals is that Conservatives thing Liberals are people with bad ideas, but Liberals think Conservatives are bad people. I knew that was true for the fringe of both sides - and still only true for the fringe, but I don't think I was able to convince anyone in that conversation. Perhaps the case is stronger now.
My own experience is that a LOT of Conservatives think that Liberals are bad people. Just sayin'. And I think you're correct that it's a fringe phenomenon. People closer to the center see how their own ideas move left and right over time, and find points of agreement with people on the 'other side'.
| 231 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:16:05pm |
re: #228 Gus 802
He links to Gates of Vienna and The Brussels Journal at his blog.
Just noticed that, and he's now banned. So he can go and whine somewhere about it, the sneaky, passive aggressive moron.
| 232 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:16:12pm |
re: #221 ggt
Hey Friday Night Lizards!
WTF is happened with ACORN? I did a google and the top results are from Fox News and the Weekly Standard. Isn't this news?
How are you-all and what are talking about?
It is news, but the worse than damned MSM are doing their best to ignore it. The only way make sure they can't continue to do so is for the story to grow in import. Those who oppose ACORN need to dig and find out what other misdeeds ACORN has committed.
| 233 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:17:12pm |
I do have to say one thing about Boston though that may take a bit to get used to and that's the streets and traffic. On Tuesday when I drove in, I spent almost 2 hours driving around in circles in the northern suburbs trying to find the school. I know the surrounding area really well now! Thankfully a really cool cop form Beverly came to my rescue and literally led me to the front gate of the school! It was fun tailing a cop! I wrote a letter to the department thanking them for his kindness and help. Very cool!
| 234 |
Randall Gross Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:17:25pm |
re: #228 Gus 802
He links to Gates of Vienna and The Brussels Journal at his blog.
Has friends who write in Cyrillic, links to race faqs, spanish nieuw recht blogs etc.
| 235 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:17:57pm |
And in answer to stalker Grim Cargo comment about whether I have self respect I say: "Yes, I do. That's why I'm still at LGF."
| 236 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:18:07pm |
re: #229 BignJames
I don't get it...what do they hope to accomplish? Behave like freaks in the hopes that a majority of people will join them and somehow topple the status quo?...Ain't happn'in.
I think that right now the right fringe feels empowered by disempowerment, if you know what I mean. Their guy is out of office, the whole world is against them, and they alone know just how bad it is.
I've been hearing the same damn thing from their lefty counterparts for many years. They get hopped up on this sense of being the few, the brave...lonely are the brave...and they get into packs to talk about how brave and lonely they are.
| 237 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:18:09pm |
re: #234 Thanos
Has friends who write in Cyrillic, links to race faqs, spanish nieuw recht blogs etc.
Yep. Full-on fascist sympathizer. Pretending to be just "asking questions."
| 238 |
Coracle Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:18:26pm |
re: #232 Dark_Falcon
ACORN has always been a mixed bag. Many of the people charged with voter reg. fraud were turned in by ACORN itself. The private sting that exposed the pair in DC made attempts in several other cities that failed - no one took the bait.
| 239 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:18:32pm |
re: #185 Charles
Good riddance. That person is a ranting fanatic and LGF is much better without him. Like all of the people at the stalker blog.
The creep factor over there goes to eleven.
| 240 |
Bear Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:19:14pm |
The WW2 military ducks were quite some thing. As a green replacement on Leyte I was told a story about a duck having a load of 32. beer being chased down the road by the MPs and before it was caught it took off the road into the ocean and escaped. True? Who knows?
| 241 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:19:26pm |
re: #233 Irenicum
I do have to say one thing about Boston though that may take a bit to get used to and that's the streets and traffic. On Tuesday when I drove in, I spent almost 2 hours driving around in circles in the northern suburbs trying to find the school. I know the surrounding area really well now! Thankfully a really cool cop form Beverly came to my rescue and literally led me to the front gate of the school! It was fun tailing a cop! I wrote a letter to the department thanking them for his kindness and help. Very cool!
The streets are based on cowpaths, and I think the cows were drunk.
Boston drivers are like that because it is the only way to actually get where you are going.
(NY drivers are worse, though; Boston ones will give in eventually. NY ones will, when merging, stay right next to your car until uou give in. )
| 242 |
Gus Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:19:33pm |
re: #231 Charles
Just noticed that, and he's now banned. So he can go and whine somewhere about it, the sneaky, passive aggressive moron.
They're a strange bunch. He was here for a long time playing his little shtick. I went out and came back after several hours and he was still there making the same passive-aggressive talking points.
| 244 |
karmic_inquisitor Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:20:40pm |
I am envious.
No one has ever called me a shower head and a plastic banana in the same email.
/
| 245 |
Gus Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:20:59pm |
re: #234 Thanos
Has friends who write in Cyrillic, links to race faqs, spanish nieuw recht blogs etc.
Is that right? I'm noticing a trend with these guys. It's not unlike the fraud that the BNP pulls.
| 246 |
Russkilitlover Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:21:04pm |
re: #217 SummerSong
Hi Russkilitlover- I think FN = Friday Night
Thanks! That acronym was beyond me. I don't usually post on weekends, so maybe I'm in for raucous times?
| 247 |
BignJames Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:21:23pm |
re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist
Yeah, I'm sure there's some of that.
| 248 |
Coracle Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:21:29pm |
re: #244 karmic_inquisitor
I am envious.
No one has ever called me a shower head and a plastic banana in the same email.
/
Have you not met the right woman yet?
| 249 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:21:38pm |
re: #241 Kosh's Shadow
So you've seen how this New Yorker drives huh?
| 250 |
Digital Display Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:22:13pm |
re: #239 Racer X
The creep factor over there goes to eleven.
Honesty..It's the Beck Factor...He is a siren to the GOP...
This is interesting to watch...
Who need a new whig party when we are watching the new clown party being born before our eyes?
| 251 |
Randall Gross Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:23:01pm |
I think a lot of R's are lost. Talking in circles and basically retreading the election agitprop. The angst against Acorn comes mostly from people who were expecting the election to be closer, who were gearing up to throw a fit like the lefties did over President Bush's election victories. The margin for O was a little too large to do that however.
The acorn crap isn't gaining us ground is the bottom line. It might lock in a base that's already down to just the core who are already permanently locked in. So continuing to paint grey rancid gristle red and calling it meat isn't serving any good purpose.
| 252 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:23:13pm |
re: #238 Coracle
ACORN has always been a mixed bag. Many of the people charged with voter reg. fraud were turned in by ACORN itself. The private sting that exposed the pair in DC made attempts in several other cities that failed - no one took the bait.
DC and Baltimore are large metropolitan areas. I can't recall any other organization that has had even a small part of itself exposed by such blatant disregard for human rights, much less the law. I find it shocking. I hope there is a large investigation--I'd like to know more.
| 253 |
Chip Designer Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:23:20pm |
re: #213 Charles
Have you considered a web page with your hatemail? Or perhaps the last 20 or so?
It would expose them for who they are. Amd if you believe that you can judge a man by his enemies, then it actually works to support you.
| 254 |
Aye Pod Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:23:48pm |
re: #178 Dark_Falcon
Lincolntf is over at the stalker blog. He reposted his flounce and is wearing the imprint of Charles' boot on his ass as a badge of honor. I wish I could say I'm surprised, but I'm not. (I wasn't here for the thread he flounced on)
He was a nasty, bitter, petty creep IMO. Glad to see the back of him.
| 255 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:24:39pm |
re: #230 SanFranciscoZionist
My own experience is that a LOT of Conservatives think that Liberals are bad people. Just sayin'. And I think you're correct that it's a fringe phenomenon. People closer to the center see how their own ideas move left and right over time, and find points of agreement with people on the 'other side'.
Also, rational people on any side can separate persons from politics, and acknowledge that even if you think someone's ideology is bad, that doesn't have to mean they are bad people or have bad intentions. On the fringe left people will believe that Republicans hate poor people, and on the fringe right they'll believe that liberals hate america and want to destroy it.
There certainly are bad people in the world, but many people fail to give the benefit of the doubt to their political opposition and acknowledge that they do on the whole have good intentions-- they just have a different vision.
(I'm talking about normal ideologies here, not the evil ones which are clearly based on hate and advocate destruction: like fascists, white supremacists, Nazis, etc)
| 256 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:25:11pm |
re: #251 Thanos
I think a lot of R's are lost. Talking in circles and basically retreading the election agitprop. The angst against Acorn comes mostly from people who were expecting the election to be closer, who were gearing up to throw a fit like the lefties did over President Bush's election victories. The margin for O was a little too large to do that however.
The acorn crap isn't gaining us ground is the bottom line. It might lock in a base that's already down to just the core who are already permanently locked in. So continuing to paint grey rancid gristle red and calling it meat isn't serving any good purpose.
I don't care if it gains any political group any ground. I'm concerned about the blatant disregard for right and wrong. ACORN has a large base, they need to clean house.
| 258 |
Coracle Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:25:57pm |
re: #256 ggt
I don't care if it gains any political group any ground. I'm concerned about the blatant disregard for right and wrong. ACORN has a large base, they need to clean house.
If nothing else, the loss of the census work might encourage them to do just that.
| 259 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:26:13pm |
re: #253 Chip Designer
Have you considered a web page with your hatemail? Or perhaps the last 20 or so?
It would expose them for who they are. Amd if you believe that you can judge a man by his enemies, then it actually works to support you.
Exceptionally funny or weird hate mails are often made into posts here. Posting all of this crap would do nothing but make the haters feel funny in their pants.
| 260 |
Bear Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:26:24pm |
Wow! Wish all of you could see the beautiful sunset that we are having now. Red and purple with blue sky.
| 261 |
Randall Gross Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:26:49pm |
re: #256 ggt
I don't care if it gains any political group any ground. I'm concerned about the blatant disregard for right and wrong. ACORN has a large base, they need to clean house.
I would rather people spend time on what the future should be. Yeah, Acorn bad. Very bad.
Now can we move on?
| 262 |
BignJames Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:26:53pm |
re: #255 iceweasel
Also, rational people on any side can separate persons from politics, and acknowledge that even if you think someone's ideology is bad, that doesn't have to mean they are bad people or have bad intentions. On the fringe left people will believe that Republicans hate poor people, and on the fringe right they'll believe that liberals hate america and want to destroy it.
Yeah, but that don't sell papers or TV shows.There certainly are bad people in the world, but many people fail to give the benefit of the doubt to their political opposition and acknowledge that they do on the whole have good intentions-- they just have a different vision.
(I'm talking about normal ideologies here, not the evil ones which are clearly based on hate and advocate destruction: like fascists, white supremacists, Nazis, etc)
| 263 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:27:19pm |
re: #230 SanFranciscoZionist
My own experience is that a LOT of Conservatives think that Liberals are bad people. Just sayin'. And I think you're correct that it's a fringe phenomenon. People closer to the center see how their own ideas move left and right over time, and find points of agreement with people on the 'other side'.
I do not doubt your experiences, SF. But, it's been my experience that some on the left have this contempt and outright hatred of people on the right. I have no doubt it cuts both ways. Personally, I hold no malice to people on the left, I just think they are wrong. But, I can see people on my side have stepped up the vitriol lately. The left is enjoying political success right now, so they have the advantage of defense posturing. The right is out of power and acting as such. I just wish the level of hatred between the two would cool down...it is both side fostering it, and not an exclusive trait of the right.
| 264 |
Noam Sayin' Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:27:30pm |
Charles, it's Labor Day week, and most of America hasn't truly kissed Summer goodbye, yet. I know many here in Minnesota who are spending one more nice weekend at the cabin, as many more are planning scooter rides, a trip to the pistol range, or maybe a nice, long walk in the woods, before we really get serious about the work week, making sure our kids are attending to their studies, celebrating Rosh Hashana (L'Shana Tova everyone, btw) preparing the yard for the winter, etc. Americans are going to honor the anniversary of 9/11 by showing their indomitable spirit by gettin' down this weekend.
I'm sure the lizards here would love to participate. Would you break out the Phony Baloney plastic Banana Game tonight? This is the FNDT, after all.
| 265 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:27:47pm |
re: #258 Coracle
If nothing else, the loss of the census work might encourage them to do just that.
Let's hope. I really don't comprehend the whole community activist concept. Yet, I can see there is a "altruistic" intention and the opportunity to really help people. I think most of the people involved try to do just that. I think I'm disturbed because the bad apples seem to be really, really bad apples.
| 266 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:27:59pm |
re: #258 Coracle
If nothing else, the loss of the census work might encourage them to do just that.
Quite Concur. Though in my opinion, I find it unlikely that ACORN could ever clean house to our satisfaction. I don't think that an Alinskyite leopard can change its spots.
| 267 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:28:50pm |
re: #260 Bear
Wow! Wish all of you could see the beautiful sunset that we are having now. Red and purple with blue sky.
Where are you?
| 270 |
Dar ul Harbarian Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:29:50pm |
re: #259 Charles
Exceptionally funny or weird hate mails are often made into posts here. Posting all of this crap would do nothing but make the haters feel funny in their pants.
Maybe you could program some sort of bot to recognize, read, and respond to your hate mail. It might do your blood pressure some good and make them feel trivial.
| 271 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:29:59pm |
re: #261 Thanos
I would rather people spend time on what the future should be. Yeah, Acorn bad. Very bad.
Now can we move on?
What, exactly, should the future be? It seems to be going in the direction of community activism (whatever that means--I still don't understand totally). If so, we do need to pay attention. Encourange those who are working towards the goals we share and show them we do agree.
| 272 |
BignJames Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:30:01pm |
re: #262 BignJames
Pimf...I really should pay attention to what I'm doing.
| 273 |
Noam Sayin' Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:30:32pm |
re: #268 Bear
C'mon, dude. Find a webcam somewhere.
Or get yer ass off the couch and take a pic, yerself.
| 274 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:30:54pm |
re: #238 Coracle
ACORN has always been a mixed bag. Many of the people charged with voter reg. fraud were turned in by ACORN itself. The private sting that exposed the pair in DC made attempts in several other cities that failed - no one took the bait.
In other words, they went trolling to get the footage they wanted. What a shock.
I think the Census people kicked ACORN to the curb because they knew it would be the next manufactured freakout. Sure, politicians caved in fear at the Beck froth to come, and that's awful -- but also, I think it reflected the grim realisation that the freakout would impact the Census, and the Census is too important to allow the current loons on the right to derail. Bachmann was already calling for people not to fill it out; that was only going to get amplified through the bullhorns of the usual cranks.
| 275 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:30:56pm |
If anyone's up for a little bizarre humor, Cakewrecks has posted a group of 9/11 themed Cakewrecks.
For those of you unfamiliar with this site, "a Cake Wreck is any cake that is unintentionally sad, silly, creepy, inappropriate - you name it," per the author.
| 276 |
Coracle Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:31:04pm |
| 277 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:31:11pm |
re: #268 Bear
I've always wanted to get up that way some day. My father went years ago twice and totally loved it.
| 278 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:31:37pm |
re: #274 iceweasel
In other words, they went trolling to get the footage they wanted. What a shock.
I think the Census people kicked ACORN to the curb because they knew it would be the next manufactured freakout. Sure, politicians caved in fear at the Beck froth to come, and that's awful -- but also, I think it reflected the grim realisation that the freakout would impact the Census, and the Census is too important to allow the current loons on the right to derail. Bachmann was already calling for people not to fill it out; that was only going to get amplified through the bullhorns of the usual cranks.
ice, the footage is pretty bad. IMHO.
| 279 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:32:17pm |
re: #251 Thanos
I think a lot of R's are lost. Talking in circles and basically retreading the election agitprop. The angst against Acorn comes mostly from people who were expecting the election to be closer, who were gearing up to throw a fit like the lefties did over President Bush's election victories. The margin for O was a little too large to do that however.
The acorn crap isn't gaining us ground is the bottom line. It might lock in a base that's already down to just the core who are already permanently locked in. So continuing to paint grey rancid gristle red and calling it meat isn't serving any good purpose.
ACORN has some problems. It is not just a few bad apples, there are many examples of questionable activity from that organization. That said, "getting them" will not get the Republican back into power. But, ignoring the glaring illegal and outright dishonest practices is not acceptable to me. I hope we get a full and total undressing of that organization. It has existed in the shadows for too long. Time to shine a little sunlight on it and see what's there.
| 280 |
Mich-again Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:32:59pm |
re: #274 iceweasel
I think the Census people kicked ACORN to the curb because they knew it would be the next manufactured freakout.
Then the tactic works apparently.
| 281 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:33:02pm |
re: #276 Coracle
re: #266 Dark_Falcon
I can't disagree, though I would like to. Political memory won't let even a fully atoned ACORN (should such a thing be possible) ever be free of the stains of its past.
Perhaps those who have the goals with whom we share will find the ability to separate themselves from the corrupt --or even acknowledge that that could be corruption among their ranks. That would be a big thing.
| 282 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:33:30pm |
re: #275 SanFranciscoZionist
Remember, if you don't eat your Patriotic Donut Holes, the terrorists win!
| 283 |
Coracle Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:34:03pm |
re: #281 ggt
Perhaps those who have the goals with whom we share will find the ability to separate themselves from the corrupt --or even acknowledge that that could be corruption among their ranks. That would be a big thing.
That would improve things all around.
| 284 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:34:35pm |
re: #263 Desert Dog
I do not doubt your experiences, SF. But, it's been my experience that some on the left have this contempt and outright hatred of people on the right. I have no doubt it cuts both ways. Personally, I hold no malice to people on the left, I just think they are wrong. But, I can see people on my side have stepped up the vitriol lately. The left is enjoying political success right now, so they have the advantage of defense posturing. The right is out of power and acting as such. I just wish the level of hatred between the two would cool down...it is both side fostering it, and not an exclusive trait of the right.
Oh, I've witnessed the left-wing crap as well, and wouldn't deny that it's out there. But it does cut both ways. I will also say that I think it is more intense in people who do not know many people from 'the other side', and see them mostly as stereotypes.
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone would calm down just a little, though?
| 285 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:35:13pm |
re: #278 ggt
ice, the footage is pretty bad. IMHO.
Of course it is, but it isn't evidence of widespread toplevel conspiracy to engage in the sex slave trade, which is what someone like Beck wants us to think.
| 286 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:36:06pm |
re: #284 SanFranciscoZionist
Yes it would be nice. But at the rate things are going, it may take a while. I do hope it turns around sooner than later.
| 287 |
Coracle Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:36:12pm |
re: #284 SanFranciscoZionist
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone would calm down just a little, though?
DON"T YOU TELL ME TO CALM D-!
-chilll-
What was I saying?
| 288 |
Randall Gross Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:36:51pm |
Elections are fourteen months out, we have to start concentrating on issues that matter and make that the message. Not "they're bad, vote for us".
OT: Mandatory Gorilla
| 289 |
Digital Display Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:36:58pm |
re: #270 Dar ul Harbarian
Maybe you could program some sort of bot to recognize, read, and respond to your hate mail. It might do your blood pressure some good and make them feel trivial.
Hi..Those are filters...They sort incoming text..
A bot is a script that searches out targets and reads text and processes the information..They have advanced light years from the original Eggbots on IRC that simply responded to your input with a pre-existing responses..
Spiders and worms will do wide ranging searche over public IP spaces and web pages...Bots can be very targeted..
| 290 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:37:22pm |
re: #274 iceweasel
In other words, they went trolling to get the footage they wanted. What a shock.
I think the Census people kicked ACORN to the curb because they knew it would be the next manufactured freakout. Sure, politicians caved in fear at the Beck froth to come, and that's awful -- but also, I think it reflected the grim realisation that the freakout would impact the Census, and the Census is too important to allow the current loons on the right to derail. Bachmann was already calling for people not to fill it out; that was only going to get amplified through the bullhorns of the usual cranks.
Iceweasel, concern about ACORN is not a fringe or kooky thing. ACORN was formed as an Alinskyite organization, and it progenitor organization wa expressly designed to enact the "Cloward-Piven" stratagy of manufactured crisis. Here's a good primer on ACORN.
| 291 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:37:33pm |
re: #284 SanFranciscoZionist
Oh, I've witnessed the left-wing crap as well, and wouldn't deny that it's out there. But it does cut both ways. I will also say that I think it is more intense in people who do not know many people from 'the other side', and see them mostly as stereotypes.
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone would calm down just a little, though?
You're online. You're anonymous. It's the nature of the beast. If we were all face-to-face it would probably be different... or people would leave without a face, either way!
| 292 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:38:00pm |
re: #285 iceweasel
Of course it is, but it isn't evidence of widespread toplevel conspiracy to engage in the sex slave trade, which is what someone like Beck wants us to think.
No, but any sex slave trade is horrible. At any level. It's beyond anything I can tolerate. I hope the good people in ACORN are as horrified as I am and work to clean out the rotten apples.
| 294 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:38:50pm |
re: #274 iceweasel
In other words, they went trolling to get the footage they wanted. What a shock.
I think the Census people kicked ACORN to the curb because they knew it would be the next manufactured freakout. Sure, politicians caved in fear at the Beck froth to come, and that's awful -- but also, I think it reflected the grim realisation that the freakout would impact the Census, and the Census is too important to allow the current loons on the right to derail. Bachmann was already calling for people not to fill it out; that was only going to get amplified through the bullhorns of the usual cranks.
ACORN has done many good things, that cannot be denied. But, let's see the good with the bad. They are far from perfect. They are set to get billions from the Stimulus package, directly and indirectly...how about some more openness and some transparency?
If there was a right wing organization with similar influence and sway and was the subject of so many investigations and scandals, the left would not rest until it was dead and gone...
| 295 |
Irenicum Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:38:59pm |
G'nite gang. It's nice to get back to LGF. I missed it, even if was only a week or so. Peace out!
| 296 |
Mich-again Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:39:06pm |
re: #285 iceweasel
Of course it is, but it isn't evidence of widespread toplevel conspiracy to engage in the sex slave trade, which is what someone like Beck wants us to think.
Are you trying to say that a few kooks don't discredit the entire group?
| 298 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:39:32pm |
re: #280 Mich-again
Then the tactic works apparently.
Of course it works. They got Van Jones to resign this way. They got sec1233 dropped from HR3200 this way.
Unless you're actually advocating the scorched earth policy of the wingnut brigade, and desiring to obstruct anything, by any means necessary, in the service of a 'win' for one's side. Even if it means lying, spreading irrational fears (death panels), and complete disregard for truth or what might be good for the country.
But I'm sure you wouldn't say these are good tactics and should be endorsed because 'they work', right?
| 299 |
Dar ul Harbarian Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:39:34pm |
re: #289 HoosierHoops
Hi..Those are filters...They sort incoming text..
A bot is a script that searches out targets and reads text and processes the information..They have advanced light years from the original Eggbots on IRC that simply responded to your input with a pre-existing responses..
Spiders and worms will do wide ranging searche over public IP spaces and web pages...Bots can be very targeted..
Gol darnit. I guess that means I can't patent the idea.
| 300 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:41:06pm |
re: #291 marjoriemoon
You're online. You're anonymous. It's the nature of the beast. If we were all face-to-face it would probably be different... or people would leave without a face, either way!
Yes, although I've heard some serious shit said in person...
In college I used to be the crazy woman who would defend Christian fundamentalists. I made people cry. People I liked. But the ability to look at a whole group of people (except for, you know, Nazis, and terrorists, and child molesters), and see them as 'the enemy' has always disturbed me. Especially when you're giving yourself a little pat on the back for being better than them.
| 301 |
Chip Designer Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:41:17pm |
I must leave this thread. It is getting late, and I leave tomorrow at dawn to take my Boy Scout troop on a 14 mile overnight canoe trip down the Texas Colorado river. I have 12 scouts who are only 11, and this is all new to them. This will push them further than they have ever been pushed in their entire lives. And if they live, they will be one step closer to becoming a man.
Their schoolmates will spend the weekend in front of the TV, playing GTA on their X-Boxes.
| 302 |
Mich-again Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:42:23pm |
re: #298 iceweasel
But I'm sure you wouldn't say these are good tactics and should be endorsed because 'they work', right?
Don't put words in my mouth you fool. I was only pointing out what you acknowledged.
| 304 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:42:43pm |
re: #290 Dark_Falcon
Iceweasel, concern about ACORN is not a fringe or kooky thing. ACORN was formed as an Alinskyite organization, and it progenitor organization wa expressly designed to enact the "Cloward-Piven" stratagy of manufactured crisis. Here's a good primer on ACORN.
Certain kinds of concern about it are legitimate. It's a sloppy organisation and it seems there isn't enough direct oversight of the workers. But ACORN has been the wingnut boogeyman starting back in 2004 when Rove tried to get some smears going, as Charles pointed out.
And I think a lot of people are now using "Alinskyite" or "Alinsky-ite tactic" to mean anything involving community organising or pretty much any activism on the left.
| 305 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:43:01pm |
re: #301 Chip Designer
I must leave this thread. It is getting late, and I leave tomorrow at dawn to take my Boy Scout troop on a 14 mile overnight canoe trip down the Texas Colorado river. I have 12 scouts who are only 11, and this is all new to them. This will push them further than they have ever been pushed in their entire lives. And if they live, they will be one step closer to becoming a man.
Their schoolmates will spend the weekend in front of the TV, playing GTA on their X-Boxes.
Have fun! Try not to lose any scouts. I understand the paperwork is a bitch.
///
| 306 |
jaunte Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:43:17pm |
re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist
The Volokh Conspiracy had a post about that today, titled
Conservatives and the civil rights movement:
Mr. Wise's intemperate and inaccurate words serve as a reminder about the dangers of recklessly imagining the worst of one's political opponents. This is a particularly serious problem on both sides of American politics today, as it was during the John Adams administration, and in 1850s. [Link: volokh.com...]
| 307 |
Aye Pod Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:43:21pm |
re: #290 Dark_Falcon
DF, almost no-one on the left reads Alinsky. He is very popular at the moment on the right though.
| 308 |
BignJames Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:44:22pm |
re: #301 Chip Designer
Just got Madden NFL 2010 for the PS3.
| 309 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:44:51pm |
re: #307 Jimmah
DF, almost no-one on the left reads Alinsky. He is very popular at the moment on the right though.
I had never heard of Alinsky until I showed up here. I had almost never heard of Soros. Now I'm thoroughly tired of both of them.
/
| 310 |
Dar ul Harbarian Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:44:58pm |
re: #301 Chip Designer
I must leave this thread. It is getting late, and I leave tomorrow at dawn to take my Boy Scout troop on a 14 mile overnight canoe trip down the Texas Colorado river. I have 12 scouts who are only 11, and this is all new to them. This will push them further than they have ever been pushed in their entire lives. And if they live, they will be one step closer to becoming a man.
Their schoolmates will spend the weekend in front of the TV, playing GTA on their X-Boxes.
Be careful. There have been some heavy rains in central TX over the last day.
| 311 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:45:49pm |
re: #302 Mich-again
Don't put words in my mouth you fool. I was only pointing out what you acknowledged.
Looks like I struck a nerve. I didn't put words in your mouth. I explicitly made the point that I doubted you would endorse such tactics.
Looks like I was wrong, huh?
| 312 |
Digital Display Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:45:52pm |
re: #299 Dar ul Harbarian
Gol darnit. I guess that means I can't patent the idea.
Oh no! Forget that!
You write scripts...
A script can install windows over an Enterprise..A script can query an Oracle Database and return views to drive business..a script can run a scangun in Wal-Mart..A script can process information and feed it to some other process..
A script can make you very rich...
Worms..Spiders and Bots are Scripts
| 313 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:47:45pm |
re: #306 jaunte
The Volokh Conspiracy had a post about that today, titled
Conservatives and the civil rights movement:
That's a very good piece. I would, however, with all respect to conservatives who took part in the civil rights movement, argue that I think Beck and his ilk would probably be on the wrong side of that. Not because they're conservatives, but because they're whiny weasels.
| 314 |
Coracle Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:48:22pm |
Ladies and Gents, I must get some shuteye. Good night.
| 315 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:48:47pm |
re: #313 SanFranciscoZionist
That's a very good piece. I would, however, with all respect to conservatives who took part in the civil rights movement, argue that I think Beck and his ilk would probably be on the wrong side of that. Not because they're conservatives, but because they're whiny weasels.
No disrespect intended to our own Iceweasel by the statement.
| 316 |
Reginald Perrin Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:49:03pm |
Charles:
I dropped a few big bombs on this morning's Think Fast thread at Think Progress.
The neanderthals at the stalker/hate blog probably were not pleased.
I am sure Eric Odom and Mark Koldys were also very upset.
You may be surprised how many Progressives admire the stand you have taken against the Birchers, birthers, deathers, tenthers, truthers, teabaggers, schlongers and Paulbots.
Keep fighting the good fight for truth.
| 317 |
solomonpanting Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:49:23pm |
re: #304 iceweasel
But ACORN has been the wingnut boogeyman starting back in 2004 when Rove tried to get some smears going, as Charles pointed out.
You're not calling LGF a wingnut site, are ya?
| 318 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:49:49pm |
re: #316 Reginald Perrin
Charles:
I dropped a few big bombs on this morning's Think Fast thread at Think Progress.
The neanderthals at the stalker/hate blog probably were not pleased.
I am sure Eric Odom and Mark Koldys were also very upset.
You may be surprised how many Progressives admire the stand you have taken against the Birchers, birthers, deathers, tenthers, truthers, teabaggers, schlongers and Paulbots.
Keep fighting the good fight for truth.
What's a tenther or a schlonger?
| 319 |
Aye Pod Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:49:49pm |
re: #302 Mich-again
Don't put words in my mouth you fool. I was only pointing out what you acknowledged.
When you post like that you just come across as another angry moron. Been a lot of that lately.
| 320 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:51:11pm |
re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist
Yes, although I've heard some serious shit said in person...
In college I used to be the crazy woman who would defend Christian fundamentalists. I made people cry. People I liked. But the ability to look at a whole group of people (except for, you know, Nazis, and terrorists, and child molesters), and see them as 'the enemy' has always disturbed me. Especially when you're giving yourself a little pat on the back for being better than them.
True. I think there's two ways people think about others, as a group and as an individual. Like "I'm not a bigot. I have a Black friend." Folks have inner prejudices or delusions, but there's always 1 or 2 "good ones" about - kinda thing. I've seen that realization with people when they find out I'm Jewish. Maybe you too.
I do have some inner predjudices about the Right, but I treat everyone I meet fairly. Probably why I keep coming here. I like to talk to people who don't agree with me as much as I enjoy people who do. Learn stuff and all that.
| 321 |
Mich-again Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:52:29pm |
| 322 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:52:29pm |
re: #318 SanFranciscoZionist
What's a tenther or a schlonger?
Schlonger?? Peeking my interest already!
| 323 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:52:54pm |
re: #317 solomonpanting
You're not calling LGF a wingnut site, are ya?
I'm pointing out, as usual, that Charles is the opposite of a wingnut (or moonbat) in that he resolutely refuses to go along with the manufactured outrage of the moment, and provides those pesky things called 'facts', for which he is resolutely despised by wingnuts. And some of the people here, too.
But have fun trying to manufacture your own wingnut talking point: "Iceweasel called LGF a wingnut site! And Charles!"
Yeah, in some alternate universe.
| 324 |
Aye Pod Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:53:45pm |
re: #309 SanFranciscoZionist
I had never heard of Alinsky until I showed up here. I had almost never heard of Soros. Now I'm thoroughly tired of both of them.
/
The irony is that many on the right are now consciously doing what they fantasise the left to have been doing all these years in furiously studying this 'playbook' and planning to implement everything in it - with the reasoning that 'teh left did it and it worked for them'.
| 325 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:54:04pm |
re: #307 Jimmah
DF, almost no-one on the left reads Alinsky. He is very popular at the moment on the right though.
What I'm saying is that ACORN is an organization created to enact the Alinsky playbook. Its work in the "living wage" and Obamacare issues are ultimately derived from Rules For Radicals, even if the majority of the people instituting the strategy have never read the book.
| 326 |
Digital Display Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:54:10pm |
re: #323 iceweasel
Good evening Ice! Hope you are having a great weekend
| 327 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:55:14pm |
re: #326 HoosierHoops
Good evening Ice! Hope you are having a great weekend
I am Hoops. Just terrific!
And how are you?
| 329 |
jaunte Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:55:19pm |
re: #318 SanFranciscoZionist
What's a tenther or a schlonger?
I googled 'tenther' and got a picture of Michele Bachmann.
| 330 |
Bear Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:55:19pm |
Wishing all of you a good night and hope that tomorrow is a better day for all. Night night
| 331 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:56:01pm |
re: #329 jaunte
I googled 'tenther' and got a picture of Michele Bachmann.
What's the reference mean?
| 332 |
jaunte Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:57:00pm |
re: #331 marjoriemoon
Tenth amendment, States Rights, too much Federal intervention, too many unfunded mandates imposed on the states, etc.
| 333 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:57:32pm |
re: #321 Mich-again
Yep. You were wrong.
No, you were. You misread me, got hostile and angry, and right here you're actually saying you endore those tactics and find them good-- if you read our exchange. You're accidentally saying that now.
This lesson in reading was paid for with a grant from the Soros Corporation.
| 335 |
Randall Gross Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:58:19pm |
Charles, if you still have contacts in the Netherlands it might be good to see if we can get a translation of this:
Babelfish translation of the write up for the vid:
Flemish television will observe undercover a look in a extreem right nursery foto' s of Adolf Hitler to the wall hang beside hang out the flag of the VMO and foto' s of Bert Eriksson (founder Flemish block-system and notorious Nazi partisan) The woman says for example that " in former days the Jews the problem was but now is the Moroccans and Turks the probleem". The house lies also once more full fire weapons (the man of the huizes is devotee of weapons). Striking detail: according to the onthaalmoeder the extreem right and Flemish nationalist youth associations " is; AVNJ and VNJ the same as the Hitlerjugend".
| 336 |
jaunte Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:58:30pm |
re: #332 jaunte
Tenth amendment, States Rights, too much Federal intervention, too many unfunded mandates imposed on the states, etc.
All of which have been used in the past to support ulterior motives.
| 337 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:59:18pm |
re: #307 Jimmah
DF, almost no-one on the left reads Alinsky. He is very popular at the moment on the right though.
Thats what you want us to believe.
;-)
| 338 |
Reginald Perrin Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:59:43pm |
re: #318 SanFranciscoZionist
The Schlongers are those obsessed with whether or not Obama's been circumsized.
The tenthers falsely believe that a federal health care system would violate the tenth amendment.
I guess they never heard of medicare
| 339 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:59:51pm |
| 341 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:00:37pm |
re: #332 jaunte
Tenth amendment, States Rights, too much Federal intervention, too many unfunded mandates imposed on the states, etc.
Ah. I guess I'm a 'thirder' then.
| 342 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:01:05pm |
re: #328 The Shadow Do
KSM, duded up, what do you think ladies?
The man knows how to play to his audience. He is trying to look like the Sheik that is his middle name. The photo is him playing a role and it give the Islamists a much more favorable picture of him than the post-capture pic that was the only one previously available. All in all, I'd call that photo a win for KSM. Media organizations will probably start using that photo in place of the old one. While that is not unethical, it is a further minor victory for KSM as the photo shows him as he wants to be seen.
| 343 |
jaunte Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:01:06pm |
re: #338 Reginald Perrin
The Schlongers are those obsessed with whether or not Obama's been circumsized.
Unreal. How do these nuts find the floor in the morning?
| 344 |
Digital Display Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:01:06pm |
re: #327 iceweasel
I am Hoops. Just terrific!
And how are you?
Just fricking wonderful..Walking along the right edge of the cliff and pushing off those they are begging to jump..It's how I roll..
/Teasing...
| 345 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:01:32pm |
re: #335 Thanos
Charles, if you still have contacts in the Netherlands it might be good to see if we can get a translation of this:
Interesting. I believe 'kaya41' is the same person as 'yelloman', who's exposed the Vlaams Belang many times.
| 346 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:01:43pm |
re: #336 jaunte
All of which have been used in the past to support ulterior motives.
Secessionist rhetoric, for one, right? Lot of ugly stuff seems to churn around the tenthers...
| 347 |
Randall Gross Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:02:12pm |
re: #345 Charles
Interesting. I believe 'kaya41' is the same person as 'yelloman', who's exposed the Vlaams Belang many times.
Yes, it's Yelloman's youtube channel
| 348 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:02:13pm |
| 349 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:02:21pm |
re: #338 Reginald Perrin
The Schlongers are those obsessed with whether or not Obama's been circumsized.
Yes, these people really exist. I was just reading a thread at Free Republic yesterday, and trying to keep my jaw from dropping all the way to the floor.
| 351 |
Mich-again Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:02:48pm |
re: #323 iceweasel
OK, now you have me confused. First, you post this..
But ACORN has been the wingnut boogeyman starting back in 2004 when Rove tried to get some smears going, as Charles pointed out.
And then Solomonpanting links to an LGF thread where Charles pointed out the connection between Obama and Acorn and asks..
You're not calling LGF a wingnut site, are ya?
To which you reply by accusing Solomonpanting of
".. trying to manufacture your own wingnut talking point: "Iceweasel called LGF a wingnut site!"
It was a reasonable question.
| 352 |
The Shadow Do Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:03:09pm |
re: #342 Dark_Falcon
The man knows how to play to his audience. He is trying to look like the Sheik that is his middle name. The photo is him playing a role and it give the Islamists a much more favorable picture of him than the post-capture pic that was the only one previously available. All in all, I'd call that photo a win for KSM. Media organizations will probably start using that photo in place of the old one. While that is not unethical, it is a further minor victory for KSM as the photo shows him as he wants to be seen.
Yah think?
| 353 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:03:20pm |
re: #338 Reginald Perrin
The Schlongers are those obsessed with whether or not Obama's been circumsized.
The tenthers falsely believe that a federal health care system would violate the tenth amendment.
I guess they never heard of medicare
What would his being circumcised prove? I'm circumcised, and I'm a Christian. Even if the Schlongers were right, it would mean nothing.
| 354 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:03:29pm |
re: #304 iceweasel
Certain kinds of concern about it are legitimate. It's a sloppy organisation and it seems there isn't enough direct oversight of the workers. But ACORN has been the wingnut boogeyman starting back in 2004 when Rove tried to get some smears going, as Charles pointed out.
And I think a lot of people are now using "Alinskyite" or "Alinsky-ite tactic" to mean anything involving community organising or pretty much any activism on the left.
They have serious issues from the top down to the bottom. Their handprints are all over the sub-prime mortgage mess, they are being investigated for voter registration fraud in many states and now this disgusting stuff that has recently surfaced. They have problems, Ice...serious problems that will not be wished away.
Some of this has been relentless political attacks from the right, but blaming this all on a Rovian plot or mere political infighting is not the entire story. Where there is smoke, there is fire and there is some might large plumes rising up from ACORN right now, mighty large.
| 355 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:03:30pm |
re: #338 Reginald Perrin
The Schlongers are those obsessed with whether or not Obama's been circumsized.
The tenthers falsely believe that a federal health care system would violate the tenth amendment.
I guess they never heard of medicare
You mean... he may not be Jewish?? Oh I'm crushed!!
| 356 |
Mich-again Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:03:39pm |
re: #333 iceweasel
got hostile and angry
You flatter yourself if you think I would get hostile or angry over anything you post. Ha.
| 357 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:04:17pm |
re: #351 Mich-again
OK, now you have me confused. First, you post this..
It was a reasonable question.
Rule #7 in the Alinsky playbook.
| 358 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:04:32pm |
re: #338 Reginald Perrin
The Schlongers are those obsessed with whether or not Obama's been circumsized.
The tenthers falsely believe that a federal health care system would violate the tenth amendment.
I guess they never heard of medicare
When Clinton left office, I thought we were done spending lots of time thinking about the President's penis.
I can say, happily, that the entire eight years Bush was in office I never once worried about his schlong. I assumed that no news was good news when it involves the presidential schlong.
Why do these people care if Obama is circumcised or not? He was born in a hospital in the U.S. in 1961, so I'm gonna take a wild guess and say 'yes'. I'm also gonna add a 'who cares'?
| 359 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:04:55pm |
re: #353 Dark_Falcon
What would his being circumcised prove? I'm circumcised, and I'm a Christian. Even if the Schlongers were right, it would mean nothing.
If he isn't, it would prove that he's a sekrit Moslem Manchurian candidate. Or possibly the Antichrist. Or some other really bad thing.
| 360 |
Reginald Perrin Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:05:04pm |
| 361 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:05:12pm |
| 362 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:05:19pm |
re: #348 Racer X
Dude should be taking a dirt nap.
Yep, and instead he's still producing propaganda. That man must die, for he will fight us to his last breath. Did you see his eyes? Stone Cold Killer, that's what those eyes said to me.
| 363 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:05:30pm |
Hmmm... what does it mean if you have breast implants? All those lady Congress people. They looking into that too? I think they should really, you know.
| 364 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:06:03pm |
re: #358 SanFranciscoZionist
When Clinton left office, I thought we were done spending lots of time thinking about the President's penis.
I can say, happily, that the entire eight years Bush was in office I never once worried about his schlong. I assumed that no news was good news when it involves the presidential schlong.
Why do these people care if Obama is circumcised or not? He was born in a hospital in the U.S. in 1961, so I'm gonna take a wild guess and say 'yes'. I'm also gonna add a 'who cares'?
Your grossing me out, man.
| 365 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:06:05pm |
| 366 |
VioletTiger Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:06:08pm |
re: #338 Reginald Perrin
The Schlongers are those obsessed with whether or not Obama's been circumsized.
The tenthers falsely believe that a federal health care system would violate the tenth amendment.
I guess they never heard of medicare
I need a kooktionary to keep up with all of these new terms.
| 367 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:06:14pm |
| 368 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:06:16pm |
re: #355 marjoriemoon
You mean... he may not be Jewish?? Oh I'm crushed!!
BTW, does anyone know if Colin Powell has Jewish ancestry at all? He looks like an MOT to me.
| 369 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:06:23pm |
re: #362 Dark_Falcon
Yep, and instead he's still producing propaganda. That man must die, for he will fight us to his last breath. Did you see his eyes? Stone Cold Killer, that's what those eyes said to me.
Yep. He will kill your kids in a heartbeat for the Jihad. Your dog too.
| 370 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:06:39pm |
| 371 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:06:58pm |
| 372 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:07:25pm |
re: #359 Charles
If he isn't, it would prove that he's a sekrit Moslem Manchurian candidate. Or possibly the Antichrist. Or some other really bad thing.
If he's a sekrit Muslim, wouldn't he BE circumsized?
| 373 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:07:32pm |
re: #358 SanFranciscoZionist
When Clinton left office, I thought we were done spending lots of time thinking about the President's penis.
I can say, happily, that the entire eight years Bush was in office I never once worried about his schlong. I assumed that no news was good news when it involves the presidential schlong.
Why do these people care if Obama is circumcised or not? He was born in a hospital in the U.S. in 1961, so I'm gonna take a wild guess and say 'yes'. I'm also gonna add a 'who cares'?
The Right has penis envy?
| 374 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:07:38pm |
re: #368 SanFranciscoZionist
BTW, does anyone know if Colin Powell has Jewish ancestry at all? He looks like an MOT to me.
MOT? I'm really behind tonight. I must admit.
Seems I heard that about Powell before, but I don't know.
| 375 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:08:13pm |
LGF's page views so far this month: 1,224,874.
| 376 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:08:34pm |
re: #371 Desert Dog
You could always convert?
I'm actually quite fascinated with Black Jews. African Jews in fact. Lots of them in Israel now.
| 377 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:08:37pm |
re: #351 Mich-again
OK, now you have me confused. First, you post this..
It was a reasonable question.
It should be clear, from every single thing I have written on this subject, that while there are legitimate criticisms to make of ACORN the wingnut-o-sphere nonetheless chooses to peddle fantasies about ACORN. Charles has pointed out both the legitimate criticisms of ACORN, while refusing to endorse the feverdreams of the kooks and conspiracy theorists-- and debunking them.
It should also be clear from everything I've ever written that Charles is the last person I would call a wingnut, and LGF is not a wingnut site.
And I do get angry at the insinuation that I think anything different.
| 378 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:08:38pm |
re: #359 Charles
If he isn't, it would prove that he's a sekrit Moslem Manchurian candidate. Or possibly the Antichrist. Or some other really bad thing.
I thought Muslims got circumcised as well, but at 12 or 13.
So if he is, it proves nothing, but if he isn't, it proves he isn't a sekrit muslim.
Or maybe we'll find out he's really a Cylon. Where's that Cylon detector...
I have it - he's a Go'auld!
| 379 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:08:54pm |
| 380 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:09:28pm |
re: #356 Mich-again
You flatter yourself if you think I would get hostile or angry over anything you post. Ha.
Every single thing you're posting proves you are hostile and angry, dude. At least own it.
| 381 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:09:47pm |
| 382 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:10:57pm |
re: #374 marjoriemoon
MOT? I'm really behind tonight. I must admit.
Seems I heard that about Powell before, but I don't know.
Member of the Tribe. Sorry again. Old shorthand.
| 383 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:11:16pm |
In fact, there was a Black Jewish woman rabbi recently ordained. I have to dig up that link somewhere.
| 384 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:11:21pm |
| 386 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:12:13pm |
| 387 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:12:38pm |
re: #383 marjoriemoon
In fact, there was a Black Jewish woman rabbi recently ordained. I have to dig up that link somewhere.
Oh, yes, I saw an article on her in the local Jewish paper.
| 388 |
Reginald Perrin Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:13:09pm |
re: #375 Charles
There aren't many places online that are civilized, well moderated and accept moderates from both sides of the political spectrum.
Give people what they want and they will come.
| 389 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:13:22pm |
re: #373 Racer X
The Right has penis envy?
Yes. Well, Freepers, anyway.
The people obsessing over this (freepers, mostly) tend to think Obama's penis would prove or disprove whether he is a Muslim. There is some overlap with the nirthers, who believe the State of the Presidential Penis would prove that he wasn't born in Hawaii.
It's one of the most insane Obama theories I've seen so far and that's saying a lot. It's kind of remarkable for just how much crazy it packs.
Fear of a Barack Planet. That's what it is.
| 390 |
BignJames Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:13:32pm |
re: #375 Charles
Wow...100k+ a day...that's double what it was just a few years ago.
| 391 |
Mich-again Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:13:53pm |
re: #377 iceweasel
It should also be clear from everything I've ever written that Charles is the last person I would call a wingnut, and LGF is not a wingnut site.
Good. Because LGF has always been an anti-idiotarian site, never rooting for either the GOP or the Dems.
| 393 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:14:24pm |
North Carolina. I'd love to meet her.
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
| 395 |
VioletTiger Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:16:39pm |
The stupidist scene from the worst movie EVER! Megashark vs Giant Octopus
| 396 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:17:09pm |
re: #389 iceweasel
Yes. Well, Freepers, anyway.
The people obsessing over this (freepers, mostly) tend to think Obama's penis would prove or disprove whether he is a Muslim. There is some overlap with the nirthers, who believe the State of the Presidential Penis would prove that he wasn't born in Hawaii.
It's one of the most insane Obama theories I've seen so far and that's saying a lot. It's kind of remarkable for just how much crazy it packs.
Fear of a Barack
PlanetPrick. That's what it is.
Improved. ;)
| 397 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:17:18pm |
re: #389 iceweasel
Fear of a Barack Planet. That's what it is.
I fear what our economy will look like in another ten years. I fear for how safe my kids will be from assholes like KSM. Obama may not be an actual communist, or a socialist, but if he continues legislating social programs America will will have far more poor people. IMHO.
| 398 |
Digital Display Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:17:40pm |
re: #389 iceweasel
What? Ice..I lost you...Who believes that?
| 399 |
placeholder Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:17:52pm |
The whole extremist party issue (domestic and international) reminds me of one of my favorite Chris Rock routines...
"First it was fuck the terrorists! I'm an American! and I was like yeah! fuck the terrorists!
Then it was fuck the arabs! I'm an American! and I was like yeah! fuck the arabs!
Then it was fuck the mexicans!, I'm an American! and that's when I had to pause and start to listen up... and check my watch... because jews and blacks are next, and THAT train, ain't NEVER late."
I never understand how people convince themselves that the obvious is not true. People who focus on reasons to hate other people will always eventually wind up hating you. Something Jews should keep in mind when they get all teary eyed about the fundamentalist christian support of israel...
-PH
| 400 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:18:26pm |
re: #389 iceweasel
Yes. Well, Freepers, anyway.
The people obsessing over this (freepers, mostly) tend to think Obama's penis would prove or disprove whether he is a Muslim. There is some overlap with the nirthers, who believe the State of the Presidential Penis would prove that he wasn't born in Hawaii.
It's one of the most insane Obama theories I've seen so far and that's saying a lot. It's kind of remarkable for just how much crazy it packs.
Fear of a Barack Planet. That's what it is.
Nearly 90 percent of men born in the U.S. in the early sixties were circumcised, per one site I just glanced at.
| 401 |
Randall Gross Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:18:55pm |
I really like the constitution with the tenth for the diversity it allows, as well as the way it builds to good laws for contentious issues over long periods. It's great that states can legalize gay marriage if they like the idea, and it's also great that there are different formulas cooking in several states for civil unions. We have fifty legislative laboratories and over time they arrive at things that make sense and work. Eventually the things that work get copied, and then moved to federal level. That aspect of the tenth is wonderful.
Some consider the tenth superfluous, as it restates some of what's said earlier, but I think it does need to be explicit.
| 403 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:19:26pm |
re: #397 Racer X
I fear what our economy will look like in another ten years. I fear for how safe my kids will be from assholes like KSM. Obama may not be an actual communist, or a socialist, but if he continues legislating social programs America will will have far more poor people. IMHO.
But are you worried about the state of his schlong?
| 404 |
VioletTiger Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:20:00pm |
re: #398 HoosierHoops
What? Ice..I lost you...Who believes that?
Get out 'yer kooktionary...
it's the schlongers
| 405 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:20:17pm |
Here's a catchy little ditty titled "A Blind Man's Penis."
| 406 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:20:26pm |
re: #403 SanFranciscoZionist
But are you worried about the state of his schlong?
I try not to think about other mens gear.
| 407 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:20:28pm |
re: #396 Dark_Falcon
Improved. ;)
heh. You're right!
It really is, though. It's such a weird mixture of racist thought and strange psychosexual issues...I posted a thread from Freak Republic here a while ago about it, I'll see if I can find it. The comments were unbelievable. Don't know if it's the same thread Charles just mentioned, but it's a doozy.
| 408 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:21:11pm |
re: #403 SanFranciscoZionist
But are you worried about the state of his schlong?
Once you go POTUS you never go back?
| 409 |
Mich-again Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:22:35pm |
re: #380 iceweasel
I wouldn't have made it this long here if I made a habit of getting hostile and angry and getting into flame wars or bemoaning the loss of some banned poster or going off the deep end. I have been here pretty regular for 5 years or so and have seen all kinds of people roll through here and roll out. So when I say I don't get all hostile and angry over what someone else posts, I mean it. I just appreciate that Charles hosts this awesome site and gives me the privilege to hang out and learn.
| 410 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:22:54pm |
re: #400 SanFranciscoZionist
Nearly 90 percent of men born in the U.S. in the early sixties were circumcised, per one site I just glanced at.
Yes, and I feel very sorry for them. ;)
| 411 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:23:43pm |
re: #404 VioletTiger
Get out 'yer kooktionary...
it's the schlongers
Is it twue what they say about you people?
It's twue, it's twue.
Lili von Schtupp
| 412 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:23:53pm |
re: #398 HoosierHoops
What? Ice..I lost you...Who believes that?
Freepers. I'll find you my old link
| 413 |
pat Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:24:16pm |
Waiting for Olberman to scorn ACORN. I mean he is against systemic corruption right?
| 414 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:24:26pm |
re: #397 Racer X
I fear what our economy will look like in another ten years. I fear for how safe my kids will be from assholes like KSM. Obama may not be an actual communist, or a socialist, but if he continues legislating social programs America will will have far more poor people. IMHO.
You do know that many of those socialist programs that you're worried about already exist.
| 416 |
BignJames Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:25:37pm |
re: #410 iceweasel
There's a joke about a help wanted ad for operating the "circumcising machine" at a hospital...
| 417 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:25:45pm |
re: #414 marjoriemoon
You do know that many of those socialist programs that you're worried about already exist.
I do. And so far they are working so well.
| 418 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:25:54pm |
re: #415 Dark_Falcon
Haven't you already gone through this? Is it necessary to post it again?
| 419 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:26:02pm |
re: #403 SanFranciscoZionist
But are you worried about the state of his schlong?
It's times like this I wish I was a stand-up comic. I could go 30 minutes with that material.
| 420 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:26:43pm |
DF: I'm going to delete that comment. It's not necessary. You don't owe those people anything at all, and they'll just use it against me.
| 421 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:27:13pm |
re: #388 Reginald Perrin
There aren't many places online that are civilized, well moderated and accept moderates from both sides of the political spectrum.
Give people what they want and they will come.
I'll second that. It appears that IW has gored one of Mich-again's sacred cows tonight and he is...um...overeacting.
((Dude, really, ACORN can't get out of its own way most of the time. Socialist conspirators? It is to laugh. If you are gonna get a Obiah Man, get a worthy one. Get a Rove or a Cheney for the right to fuss over. ACORN doesn't feed the bulldog.))
| 422 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:28:31pm |
re: #407 iceweasel
heh. You're right!
It really is, though. It's such a weird mixture of racist thought and strange psychosexual issues...I posted a thread from Freak Republic here a while ago about it, I'll see if I can find it. The comments were unbelievable. Don't know if it's the same thread Charles just mentioned, but it's a doozy.
Well racists have often made an issue out the size of black men's penises. The fact that kooks would focus on something like that does raise questions as to their racial attitudes and iceweasel is right to call attention to that fact.
| 423 |
pat Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:28:42pm |
Damn. The projected unemployment figures that Summers discussed make me believe that not only does the Obama Administration know they are ignorant asses that do not trust the market place, but that they do not care. We have an Administration that believes a little pain will be good for America. A crises that needs solving. Hey...who cares if a few get destroyed in the field.
| 424 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:28:51pm |
re: #417 Racer X
I do. And so far they are working so well.
What was wrong with welfare reform? 2 year period to get people educated and back in the workplace? It worked well while it was implemented. I don't know what became of it after 2000. I think there's a ton of misconceptions about welfare anyway. Last I looked, a few years ago, the majority of recipients were single white women with 2 children.
Then there social security, medicare and all those public works programs, parks, libraries, road maintenance, school. It ain't so bad.
| 426 |
Mich-again Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:29:52pm |
re: #421 austin_blue
It appears that IW has gored one of Mich-again's sacred cows tonight
What are you talking about? There is no such thing as a sacred cow. When did I say Acorn was a socialist conspirator? That is to laugh.
| 427 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:29:52pm |
re: #420 Charles
DF: I'm going to delete that comment. It's not necessary. You don't owe those people anything at all, and they'll just use it against me.
Understood, Charles. I won't bring it up again here.
| 428 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:30:21pm |
re: #422 Dark_Falcon
Well racists have often made an issue out the size of black men's penises. The fact that kooks would focus on something like that does raise questions as to their racial attitudes and iceweasel is right to call attention to that fact.
Yeah, there's a distinctly racial edge going on there. Which is the only part I can actually make any kind of sense out of.
| 429 |
solomonpanting Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:30:51pm |
re: #401 Thanos
I really like the constitution with the tenth for the diversity it allows, as well as the way it builds to good laws for contentious issues over long periods.
Yep. Massachusettes health care being one example.
In a rational world, the prognosis for ObamaCare would wait on the evidence in Massachusetts, given that the commonwealth's 2006 program closely resembles what Democrats are trying to do in Washington. If the results were widely known, it might be dead on arrival.
| 430 |
Randall Gross Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:32:31pm |
Kinkajous
| 431 |
MJ Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:32:50pm |
U.S. to Accept Iran’s Proposal to Hold Talks
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration said Friday that the United States would accept Iran’s offer to meet, fulfilling President Obama’s pledge to hold unconditional talks despite the Iranian government’s insistence that it would not negotiate over the future of its nuclear program...
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
| 432 |
Reginald Perrin Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:33:18pm |
Dark_Falcon:
You did nothing wrong and you took the high road and apologized a couple times, you are in the clear.
Don't worry about it, that comment was not threatening.
They always like to play victim at the stalker blog.
I have noticed they have started to clean up their site and have removed a thread from August 15th.
They are scared and were using you to make it appear both sides are at fault.
| 433 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:33:43pm |
We had the drug dogs come to school today. I love the drug dogs. But you can't pet them when they're working.
| 435 |
Aye Pod Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:34:21pm |
re: #389 iceweasel
Yes. Well, Freepers, anyway.
The people obsessing over this (freepers, mostly) tend to think Obama's penis would prove or disprove whether he is a Muslim. There is some overlap with the nirthers, who believe the State of the Presidential Penis would prove that he wasn't born in Hawaii.
It's one of the most insane Obama theories I've seen so far and that's saying a lot. It's kind of remarkable for just how much crazy it packs.
Fear of a Barack Planet. That's what it is.
Why doesn't he just whip it out at his next press conference and prove he is eligible? What is he hiding? ;-)
| 436 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:34:53pm |
re: #424 marjoriemoon
What was wrong with welfare reform? 2 year period to get people educated and back in the workplace? It worked well while it was implemented. I don't know what became of it after 2000. I think there's a ton of misconceptions about welfare anyway. Last I looked, a few years ago, the majority of recipients were single white women with 2 children.
Then there social security, medicare and all those public works programs, parks, libraries, road maintenance, school. It ain't so bad.
Social Security is broke - the lying politicians stole the money and spent it on something else. Medicare is broke. Welfare creates an endless cycle of government dependance.
You mention white women with 2 kids - why?
| 437 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:35:13pm |
I'm watching "102 Minutes That Changed America" with my little bro (11) and sis (9).
I hope they feel the same rage I felt and still feel.
| 438 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:35:22pm |
re: #434 pat
Beagles or Labs?
One is a German shepherd, and the other is a short-hair of some kind that may be part Lab.
| 439 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:35:27pm |
re: #432 Reginald Perrin
Dark_Falcon:
You did nothing wrong and you took the high road and apologized a couple times, you are in the clear.
Don't worry about it, that comment was not threatening.
They always like to play victim at the stalker blog.
I have noticed they have started to clean up their site and have removed a thread from August 15th.
They are scared and were using you to make it appear both sides are at fault.
Agreed. I'll leave the matter to rest.
| 440 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:35:49pm |
re: #435 Jimmah
Why doesn't he just whip it out at his next press conference and prove he is eligible? What is he hiding? ;-)
Oh no you didn't.
| 441 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:36:17pm |
re: #435 Jimmah
Why doesn't he just whip it out at his next press conference and prove he is eligible? What is he hiding? ;-)
His nakedness. Thank God. American politics is weird enough already.
| 442 |
Mich-again Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:36:28pm |
re: #431 MJ
Providing more evidence that Amir Taheri was spot-on when he made the comparison to Ahmadinjehad to the Persian folk story character named "Pear-shaped Ali"
The bigger chaps in the neighborhood dismiss him as a midget, bully him whenever they can, and never offer him a seat at the table in the teahouse that is their haunt. So what does Ali Golabi do? He goes around waving a big knife, making a big noise, breaking a window here and there, and, occasionally, even strangling a street cat to show his strength. His agitations annoy the big chaps who want to sip their tea, puff their hookahs and play a game of backgammon in peace.Nevertheless, Ali knows where and when to stop. As soon as the big chaps come out of the teahouse to confront him, he declares that he has already done whatever he had wanted to do and is now ready not to do it again. This helps ease the tension and gets Ali off the hook — until the next showdown.
| 443 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:36:29pm |
re: #433 SanFranciscoZionist
We had the drug dogs come to school today. I love the drug dogs. But you can't pet them when they're working.
I get to see the bomb dogs at the airport all the time...cool critters
| 444 |
placeholder Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:37:13pm |
re: #435 Jimmah
Why doesn't he just whip it out at his next press conference and prove he is eligible? What is he hiding? ;-)
lol...just had a great mental picture of obama walking out with his birth certificate on his t-shirt, and his d*ck hanging out.
| 445 |
VioletTiger Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:37:14pm |
I got a really nasty virus earlier this evening. It took me a couple of hours to clean it up. It got through PC cillin, but Counterspy and Malewarebytes cleaned it up. Not sure where it came from.
| 446 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:37:27pm |
| 447 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:38:27pm |
re: #435 Jimmah
Why doesn't he just whip it out at his next press conference and prove he is eligible? What is he hiding? ;-)
Also, the Constitution says NOTHING about the president's bits. Again, thank God.
(Although Jon Stewart's book claims that a height requirement was considered--a debate, he says, that mostly consisted of Thomas Jefferson holding a yardstick over Madison's head and yelling "You must be this tall to be the president.")
| 448 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:38:38pm |
re: #436 Racer X
Social Security is broke - the lying politicians stole the money and spent it on something else. Medicare is broke. Welfare creates an endless cycle of government dependance.
You mention white women with 2 kids - why?
Because most folks seem to be under the misconception that the majority of welfare recipients are crack whores with 5 kids.
Which lying politicians would that be over the last 8 years? Medicare works and works pretty well. Welfare was supposed to be fixed so that it isn't an endless cycle. At least as of 2000.
| 449 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:38:40pm |
Obama Derangement Syndrome is just out of control.
People keep posting over and over that the Census Bureau dropped ACORN because of ACORN's "criminal behavior."
This is NOT TRUE.
The Census Bureau stated VERY explicitly that they dropped ACORN because of the political fake outrage being drummed up by Beck and the GOP.
NOT because of wrongdoing.
When did everyone on the right just forget how to read?
| 450 |
Digital Display Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:39:39pm |
re: #445 VioletTiger
I got a really nasty virus earlier this evening. It took me a couple of hours to clean it up. It got through PC cillin, but Counterspy and Malewarebytes cleaned it up. Not sure where it came from.
Maleware is excellent...5 star in my book and free updates.What is not to like?
| 451 |
Randall Gross Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:39:48pm |
Penn Says: Religion and Healthcare
| 452 |
pat Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:39:49pm |
What is wrong with welfare? ...What is wrong with a job? re: #438 SanFranciscoZionist
i was going to toss in German Shephards. Not the Best noses tho. Good brains when not addled. Noses: Blood Hound, Basset Hound, Labrador Retriever (really a hound, the genesis of the retriever designation), his cousin the Golden Retriever.
| 453 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:40:16pm |
re: #443 Desert Dog
I get to see the bomb dogs at the airport all the time...cool critters
At SFO they use beagles. Very good dogs for that kind of work. Great noses, and they aren't so intimidating as bigger breeds.
| 454 |
pat Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:40:59pm |
re: #439 Dark_Falcon
I have no idea what anyone is talking about, but I am sure you were right.
| 455 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:41:08pm |
re: #444 placeholder
lol...just had a great mental picture of obama walking out with his birth certificate on his t-shirt, and his d*ck hanging out.
Another man broken by the presidency.
| 456 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:41:23pm |
re: #448 marjoriemoon
Because most folks seem to be under the misconception that the majority of welfare recipients are crack whores with 5 kids.
Which lying politicians would that be over the last 8 years? Medicare works and works pretty well. Welfare was supposed to be fixed so that it isn't an endless cycle. At least as of 2000.
Yes, and who "fixed it"?
| 457 |
Reginald Perrin Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:41:45pm |
When did everyone on the right just forget how to read?
It may be that they only read what they want to believe and ignore everything else.
| 458 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:42:05pm |
re: #445 VioletTiger
I got a really nasty virus earlier this evening. It took me a couple of hours to clean it up. It got through PC cillin, but Counterspy and Malewarebytes cleaned it up. Not sure where it came from.
(((This is one reason I am true to my Mac Mini. Fine little device.)))
re: #446 Dark_Falcon
Blazing Saddles, a true Mel Brooks classic.
How many classic lines were there in that one movie? The Lili von Shtupp sekwence was twuly wonderful!
| 459 |
Digital Display Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:42:06pm |
re: #453 SanFranciscoZionist
At SFO they use beagles. Very good dogs for that kind of work. Great noses, and they aren't so intimidating as bigger breeds.
You can't fly out of Hawaii without meeting the cutest little beagles...
| 460 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:42:40pm |
re: #448 marjoriemoon
Because most folks seem to be under the misconception that the majority of welfare recipients are crack whores with 5 kids.
Which lying politicians would that be over the last 8 years? Medicare works and works pretty well. Welfare was supposed to be fixed so that it isn't an endless cycle. At least as of 2000.
Ahh. Are you accusing me of being racist then? I mentioned nothing about race. I am well aware of the mix of welfare recipients.
re the lying politicians = All of them.
If Medicare works so well then why do we need health care reform?
If welfare was fixed why do we still have people on welfare?
I'm not picking on you - I'm just asking questions in general.
| 461 |
Aye Pod Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:43:13pm |
re: #440 marjoriemoon
Oh no you didn't.
[video]
Speaking of US politicians whipping it out at press conferences etc:
| 463 |
placeholder Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:43:40pm |
re: #459 HoosierHoops
You can't fly out of Hawaii without meeting the cutest little beagles...
I flew from LAX today - they had german shepards AND beagles for some reason. They look really funny standing next to each other.
| 464 |
VioletTiger Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:43:41pm |
re: #450 HoosierHoops
Maleware is excellent...5 star in my book and free updates.What is not to like?
It finds things the other programs do not. Especially good for those fake antivirus-viruses.
| 465 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:43:52pm |
re: #449 Charles
Obama Derangement Syndrome is just out of control.
People keep posting over and over that the Census Bureau dropped ACORN because of ACORN's "criminal behavior."
This is NOT TRUE.
The Census Bureau stated VERY explicitly that they dropped ACORN because of the political fake outrage being drummed up by Beck and the GOP.
NOT because of wrongdoing.
When did everyone on the right just forget how to read?
When the false screaming outrage began to work on the great unwashed? This is not without some control from the top.
| 466 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:43:56pm |
re: #453 SanFranciscoZionist
At SFO they use beagles. Very good dogs for that kind of work. Great noses, and they aren't so intimidating as bigger breeds.
They have a few down at the cargo areas I do business in. One is a honest to goodness Bloodhound. The others are mixed breeds. That is a big part of the cargo screening in the USA...dogs. More reliable than chemical scanners or visual.
| 467 |
The Shadow Do Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:44:11pm |
re: #437 TheMatrix31
I'm watching "102 Minutes That Changed America" with my little bro (11) and sis (9).
I hope they feel the same rage I felt and still feel.
Hey, ancient history. Let it go.
///
Have you seen how terrific KSM looks in his latest pics? Cat's been taking good care of himself!
| 468 |
freetoken Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:44:16pm |
| 469 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:44:17pm |
re: #456 Desert Dog
Yes, and who "fixed it"?
Clinton's welfare reform? We all forgot about that I guess.
A 2 year program in which you enrolled in a class like accounting, a/c repair, bookkeeping. They give you food stamps, put your kids in daycare if needed, provide housing allowances, etc. After 2 years, you get no more gov benefit, but have to find a job. Employers that hire these people got tax cuts as an extra incentive. It WORKED in Florida, that I can tell you, to get people off gov care and into the workforce, provide them a skill.
| 470 |
pat Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:44:26pm |
I don't care why they dropped ACORN. They should have never been considered for the census. That is like hiring the Hell's Angels for security for security at a rock concert, ...hey, that worked out well, didn't it?
| 471 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:44:45pm |
re: #452 pat
What is wrong with welfare? ...What is wrong with a job?
i was going to toss in German Shephards. Not the Best noses tho. Good brains when not addled. Noses: Blood Hound, Basset Hound, Labrador Retriever (really a hound, the genesis of the retriever designation), his cousin the Golden Retriever.
This is the local police department's team--they come a couple times a year, and let the dogs sniff lockers and cars and some backpacks.
Apparently, one year, the dogs showed intense interest in a car belonging to a faculty member. ;)
| 472 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:45:17pm |
re: #449 Charles
Obama Derangement Syndrome is just out of control.
People keep posting over and over that the Census Bureau dropped ACORN because of ACORN's "criminal behavior."
This is NOT TRUE.
The Census Bureau stated VERY explicitly that they dropped ACORN because of the political fake outrage being drummed up by Beck and the GOP.
NOT because of wrongdoing.
When did everyone on the right just forget how to read?
I'm not sure the outrage was entire fake. ACORN has an extremely bad record when it comes to canvassing people. Given that record, they should not have a place in census taking. That said, you are right that Beck and Bachmann are blowing things way out of proportion and going off the cliff.
| 473 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:45:33pm |
re: #469 marjoriemoon
Clinton's welfare reform? We all forgot about that I guess.
A 2 year program in which you enrolled in a class like accounting, a/c repair, bookkeeping. They give you food stamps, put your kids in daycare if needed, provide housing allowances, etc. After 2 years, you get no more gov benefit, but have to find a job. Employers that hire these people got tax cuts as an extra incentive. It WORKED in Florida, that I can tell you, to get people off gov care and into the workforce, provide them a skill.
Ahhh yes, Clinton's famous Welfare Reform! Well, he did sign it, that is for sure. But, it should be called Newt Gingrich's Welfare Reform...look it up.
| 474 |
pat Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:45:43pm |
re: #471 SanFranciscoZionist
lol (pat decides not to teach in SF)
| 475 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:46:41pm |
re: #470 pat
I don't care why they dropped ACORN. They should have never been considered for the census. That is like hiring the Hell's Angels for security for security at a rock concert, ...hey, that worked out well, didn't it?
Quite Concur.
| 476 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:46:43pm |
re: #460 Racer X
Ahh. Are you accusing me of being racist then? I mentioned nothing about race. I am well aware of the mix of welfare recipients.
re the lying politicians = All of them.
If Medicare works so well then why do we need health care reform?
If welfare was fixed why do we still have people on welfare?
I'm not picking on you - I'm just asking questions in general.
I didn't call you a racist... you know that.
Medicare works fine. You have to be retired (or disabled?) to get it.
I'm sorry if my liberal-ness is showing, but I believe in helping people out when they need it. And you never know when you'll need it. Money is fleeting, particularly in the last few years, for many Americans. Is the system perfect? Far from it, but The Welfare Reform Act went far to fix a lot of problems.
| 477 |
Digital Display Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:46:49pm |
re: #463 placeholder
I flew from LAX today - they had german shepards AND beagles for some reason. They look really funny standing next to each other.
I don't like LAX...You flew on 911?
| 478 |
BignJames Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:46:52pm |
re: #448 marjoriemoon
Because most folks seem to be under the misconception that the majority of welfare recipients are crack whores with 5 kids.
Which lying politicians would that be over the last 8 years? Medicare works and works pretty well. Welfare was supposed to be fixed so that it isn't an endless cycle. At least as of 2000.
I'm stumped...who?
| 479 |
pat Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:47:36pm |
re: #472 Dark_Falcon
Shit yes. 2 cities, 2 loony criminals. 15 States now have or had investigations. Can I buy a ...clue?
| 480 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:47:52pm |
re: #473 Desert Dog
Ahhh yes, Clinton's famous Welfare Reform! Well, he did sign it, that is for sure. But, it should be called Newt Gingrich's Welfare Reform...look it up.
He vetoed it twice, sending it back to Congress until HE got what HE wanted.
| 481 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:48:10pm |
re: #467 The Shadow Do
Hey, ancient history. Let it go.
///
Have you seen how terrific KSM looks in his latest pics? Cat's been taking good care of himself!
I hope that guy eats shit daily.
| 482 |
jaunte Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:48:11pm |
re: #451 Thanos
Penn Says: Religion and Healthcare
He makes a good point about the rules being poorly written, and made for people to game them.
| 483 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:49:23pm |
re: #476 marjoriemoon
I didn't call you a racist... you know that.
Medicare works fine. You have to be retired (or disabled?) to get it.
I'm sorry if my liberal-ness is showing, but I believe in helping people out when they need it. And you never know when you'll need it. Money is fleeting, particularly in the last few years, for many Americans. Is the system perfect? Far from it, but The Welfare Reform Act went far to fix a lot of problems.
Cool.
I'm totally OK with helping people out who really need it. But real help. Help them to get ahead, not stay where they are - dependent on the government.
| 484 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:49:24pm |
re: #477 HoosierHoops
I don't like LAX...You flew on 911?
Beagles make *great* bomb dogs, as do most scent hounds. All in the nose, dontcha know. Also, thy are smaller, eat less food, make less scat, and are more focused on their task than other breeds.
| 485 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:49:29pm |
re: #463 placeholder
I flew from LAX today - they had german shepards AND beagles for some reason. They look really funny standing next to each other.
But they don't know that. People could learn so much from dogs--dogs accept all dogs as dogs. A Rhodesian Ridgeback will sniff a Pomeranian's behind in all seriousness and courtesy.
Humans, in contrast, come in a single breed, and make a huge deal out of minor color variations.
| 486 |
VioletTiger Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:49:45pm |
re: #453 SanFranciscoZionist
At SFO they use beagles. Very good dogs for that kind of work. Great noses, and they aren't so intimidating as bigger breeds.
Hope they are smarter than Italian security dogs.
Went to Italy once to see hubby's family. He left his suitcase out for a week before we left and the cats were in it constantly. The dogs locked on that suitcase like glue and the security people emptied everything single thing out.
Lesson learned:
Keep the cats out of the suitcases!
| 487 |
placeholder Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:50:18pm |
re: #477 HoosierHoops
I don't like LAX...You flew on 911?
I think after O'Hare, LAX may be one of my least favorite airports. Yeah - I flew today... I won't lie that it gave me pause, but i figure the security would be pretty good today. I was more concerned about flying on the 12th...when everyone goes back to their normal disinterested self.
-PH
| 488 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:50:23pm |
re: #453 SanFranciscoZionist
At SFO they use beagles. Very good dogs for that kind of work. Great noses, and they aren't so intimidating as bigger breeds.
The only problem though is they want to borrow an airplane and go fight the Red Baron.
| 489 |
Randall Gross Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:50:25pm |
re: #482 jaunte
Yes it blows my mind that the bill is written in a way that everyone has to pay except for the sick fucks who pray instead of call an ambulance when a child is critically ill.
| 490 |
Racer X Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:51:05pm |
re: #486 VioletTiger
Hope they are smarter than Italian security dogs.
Went to Italy once to see hubby's family. He left his suitcase out for a week before we left and the cats were in it constantly. The dogs locked on that suitcase like glue and the security people emptied everything single thing out.Lesson learned:
Keep the cats out of the suitcases!
Thats funny!
Ok, maybe not for your hubby.
| 491 |
MJ Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:51:08pm |
re: #442 Mich-again
Providing more evidence that Amir Taheri was spot-on when he made the comparison to Ahmadinjehad to the Persian folk story character named "Pear-shaped Ali"
This is a desperation move on the part of the US. There is no reason why the US should be meeting with Iran unless it is to discuss the Iranian nuclear program. Since this item is expressly removed from the agenda, the only thing this meeting will do is provide legitimacy to Iranian intransigence and to Ahmadinejad.
| 492 |
That's Glenn Beck to you Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:51:41pm |
[in character]
I just wanted to stop by and inform Charles of something my researchers have just discovered: Not only are you being kicked out of the Conservative Republican Movement® but it turns out that you are being excommunicated from the Pentecostal Church!
Ha!
Two organizations that you have never belonged to have kicked you out!
[out of character]
Hang in there, Charles.
And I can't wait for a new registration opportunity - Stealth Banned Sockpuppet With Turrets is eager to be born.
| 493 |
The Shadow Do Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:51:48pm |
re: #465 austin_blue
When the false screaming outrage began to work on the great unwashed? This is not without some control from the top.
The top? That would be...?
| 494 |
VioletTiger Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:51:54pm |
re: #490 Racer X
Thats funny!
Ok, maybe not for your hubby.
Ohh, he was mad! But we can laugh about it now.
| 495 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:52:05pm |
re: #474 pat
lol (pat decides not to teach in SF)
It's a fabulous school--and we're in the East Bay--but the dogs were quite interested in that vehicle. Perhaps the owner had doggie treats in his backseat.
//
| 496 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:52:33pm |
re: #480 marjoriemoon
He vetoed it twice, sending it back to Congress until HE got what HE wanted.
To be fair, Clinton played a role in it, to call it exclusively his is not really true, now is it? The Republican Class of 94, the dreaded and much feared Contract With America, provided Clinton with most of the things he now points to as his successes. He had to sign on to it, the polls he watched so closely told him too. It is ironic that the battle between those two groups - Clinton and his nemesis, the Republican congress actually did work together on some major issues...yet both still tried to literally destroy one another.
| 497 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:55:16pm |
re: #483 Racer X
Cool.
I'm totally OK with helping people out who really need it. But real help. Help them to get ahead, not stay where they are - dependent on the government.
One of the issues which frustrates me with the Right and the pro-Life movement. They don't want young women to get abortions. They should have their baby, maybe get married and try to work it out. Now that's all fine, but the reality is that it rarely works out and the women (the divorce rate is much higher the younger you are) are left caring for the children, mostly after quitting high school and they have no skills or any way to care for themselves. If their parents have no funds, what becomes of them and their children? But the Right doesn't support social programs to help them either. Very frustrating.
| 498 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:55:43pm |
Can't find my original comment about the FR thread about the uh, Presidential Unit-- which is too bad because some funny jokes were made -- but I did find the FR link I'd posted: Warning, possibly the single craziest thread on the Intertubes. Every lunatic theory possible is endorsed--
Here's some choice comments about the reasoning behind the Search For Obama's Schlong:
Read a copy of Larry Sinclair's book this afternoon. Quick read. The list of character who attacked his character being names we see regularly and a few attached to Axelrod.
The only other thing that hit me was that Sinclair said BO was not circumcised. When my son was born in a hospital that was done as a matter of routine without even consulting us. Would the same be for Hawaii? OTOH People born at home or in some other cultures are not circumcised.
To: hoosiermama
hoosiermama,A relative of mine was born (in a hospital) a couple of years after BO's alleged birth date. He was circumcised also (as a matter of routine, not according to any family request)
To: afraidfortherepublic; thecodontWish we had someone to make a phone call to the hospitols in HI and askif they routinely do circumcism and when that practice started.
To: rolling_stone; STARWISE; LucyT; David; BP2
If indeed Bo is intact, as Sinclair states, might this be another indication that he was born outside the US. (as young as he was in Seattle, she may have also left medical care before the procedure was done...There is a few days waiting period after birth. Varies with local medical staff.
[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]
The thread is a nirther thread and is over 10K posts long.
| 499 |
Mich-again Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:55:47pm |
Here is a letter from Richard Shelby (someone I detest actually) to President Obama regarding ACORN and the census. It kind of sums up why Acorn should not be included as a partner in taking the census.
We must not let the census become a blatant political tool.
I agree with him there.
| 500 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:56:16pm |
re: #492 That's Glenn Beck to you
[in character]
I just wanted to stop by and inform Charles of something my researchers have just discovered: Not only are you being kicked out of the Conservative Republican Movement® but it turns out that you are being excommunicated from the Pentecostal Church!
Ha!
Two organizations that you have never belonged to have kicked you out!
[out of character]
Hang in there, Charles.
And I can't wait for a new registration opportunity - Stealth Banned Sockpuppet With Turrets is eager to be born.
Have you been reading Eye of the Storm today?
(It's a new John Ringo book that features stealth ships and tanks.)
| 501 |
VioletTiger Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:56:22pm |
re: #496 Desert Dog
To be fair, Clinton played a role in it, to call it exclusively his is not really true, now is it? The Republican Class of 94, the dreaded and much feared Contract With America, provided Clinton with most of the things he now points to as his successes. He had to sign on to it, the polls he watched so closely told him too. It is ironic that the battle between those two groups - Clinton and his nemesis, the Republican congress actually did work together on some major issues...yet both still tried to literally destroy one another.
That balance of power did work well together. Both sides must have known that they had to work to find solutions that were acceptable for the center. I think too much control on either side will always be not-ideal. I think that's part of the problem right now. The incentive to really work together for a center solution is just not there.
| 502 |
Dan G. Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:56:56pm |
re: #476 marjoriemoon
[...] I believe in helping people out when they need it.
And you are free to help them, but you are arguing in support of forcing others to do so.
And you never know when you'll need it.
Hence, exercising frugality, maintaining some savings, and purchasing adequate catastrophic insurance are all essential survival skills, while taking on debt and living beyond one's means are recipes for failure.
If you want to exonerate people for spending more than they have before they have a problem that's your business. It is immoral to force others (i.e. the ants) to subsidize those who were living recklessly (i.e. the grasshoppers).
P.S. Charles, could you add to the code for the "Preview" function that it automatically unchecks the "auto" update feature? It makes reading the preview nearly impossible.
| 503 |
placeholder Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:57:19pm |
re: #485 SanFranciscoZionist
But they don't know that. People could learn so much from dogs--dogs accept all dogs as dogs. A Rhodesian Ridgeback will sniff a Pomeranian's behind in all seriousness and courtesy.
Humans, in contrast, come in a single breed, and make a huge deal out of minor color variations.
Agreed in principle, but i'm not sure we'd last long as dogs. Watching a pomeranian going nuts barking at a doberman or great dane reminds me that knowing your limitations is not a bad idea...
| 504 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:58:00pm |
re: #483 Racer X
Cool.
I'm totally OK with helping people out who really need it. But real help. Help them to get ahead, not stay where they are - dependent on the government.
Keep in mind that the worst nightmare for a capitalist economy is full employment. That leads to wage inflation. Capitalism *needs* a pool of unemployed to keep wage pressures down. What no one needs is a *permanent* pool of unemployed individuals. That's what the welfare reform bills of the 0's sought to address. Clinton was not above seeing a republican generated idea as helpful to the polity. Gingrich could not have over ridden that veto.
But now, we are in the shit. Well qualified workers are out of work and the jobs *simply aren't there*. Those trying to claw their way out of welfare don't have a chance of making it right now. The pool of more qualified workers in front of them guarantees that.
A Dark Teatime of the American Economic Soul...
| 505 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 9:59:13pm |
re: #496 Desert Dog
To be fair, Clinton played a role in it, to call it exclusively his is not really true, now is it? The Republican Class of 94, the dreaded and much feared Contract With America, provided Clinton with most of the things he now points to as his successes. He had to sign on to it, the polls he watched so closely told him too. It is ironic that the battle between those two groups - Clinton and his nemesis, the Republican congress actually did work together on some major issues...yet both still tried to literally destroy one another.
That's true. In fact, I think the Welfare Reform Act is a good example of both sides working together for a common goal.
We did well under Clinton in many ways. The Right doesn't like to say so, but it's true.
| 506 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:00:35pm |
re: #498 iceweasel
Like I say, give me 30 minutes and a stage, I'll eat em alive!
| 507 |
That's Glenn Beck to you Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:00:45pm |
re: #500 Dark_Falcon
Have you been reading Eye of the Storm today?
(It's a new John Ringo book that features stealth ships and tanks.)
[out of character]
I have wanted to register Stealth Banned Sockpuppet With Turrets for a couple of weeks. Gawd he'd be having fun right now. But I keep missing the opportunities.
Oh well.
Regarding the book - no. But it sounds interesting. Most of my reading is either technical, history or politics. I should read for pleasure more.
| 508 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:01:02pm |
| 510 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:01:48pm |
re: #498 iceweasel
Can't find my original comment about the FR thread about the uh, Presidential Unit-- which is too bad because some funny jokes were made -- but I did find the FR link I'd posted: Warning, possibly the single craziest thread on the Intertubes. Every lunatic theory possible is endorsed--
Here's some choice comments about the reasoning behind the Search For Obama's Schlong:
[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]
The thread is a nirther thread and is over 10K posts long.
Don't call it a thread, call it a river of crazy instead.
| 511 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:04:17pm |
re: #503 placeholder
Agreed in principle, but i'm not sure we'd last long as dogs. Watching a pomeranian going nuts barking at a doberman or great dane reminds me that knowing your limitations is not a bad idea...
We have a 5 lb poodle who always wants to be near a 57 lb poodle, who doesn't like him, and once picked him up and was heading to his crate with him until I got up. Then he tossed the smaller dog away unhurt, and was locked in his crate. But the little one just doesn't get the idea that it would be safer to stay away.
| 512 |
Mich-again Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:04:33pm |
re: #505 marjoriemoon
We did well under Clinton in many ways. The Right doesn't like to say so, but it's true.
Agreed. But what everyone fails to notice is that those Clinton/Gore boom years resulted in more CO2 in the atmosphere. Funny how "An Inconvenient Truth" skips over that detail.
| 513 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:04:59pm |
re: #499 Mich-again
Here is a letter from Richard Shelby (someone I detest actually) to President Obama regarding ACORN and the census. It kind of sums up why Acorn should not be included as a partner in taking the census.
I agree with him there.
Except that ACORN's role was never going to be giving the Census or collecting information for it, and they were one of 30,000 partners. And they weren't getting paid for it.
[Link: www.factcheck.org...]
[Link: www.politifact.com...]
Seriously, this was not a big deal, and the US Census Bureau dropping ACORN is only a recognition of the ODS and increasing disregard for truth on the part of some in the GOP and the wingnut right.
| 514 |
Kosh's Shadow Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:05:11pm |
re: #510 Dark_Falcon
Don't call it a thread, call it a river of crazy instead.
It is a swamp, full of rotting thoughts.
| 515 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:06:43pm |
re: #513 iceweasel
Except that ACORN's role was never going to be giving the Census or collecting information for it, and they were one of 30,000 partners. And they weren't getting paid for it.
[Link: www.factcheck.org...]
[Link: www.politifact.com...]
Seriously, this was not a big deal, and the US Census Bureau dropping ACORN is only a recognition of the ODS and increasing disregard for truth on the part of some in the GOP and the wingnut right.
I just got home from work at the theatre. Quick update. What happened, was ACORN dropped as a census partner?
| 516 |
BignJames Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:06:45pm |
| 517 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:07:02pm |
re: #505 marjoriemoon
That's true. In fact, I think the Welfare Reform Act is a good example of both sides working together for a common goal.
We did well under Clinton in many ways. The Right doesn't like to say so, but it's true.
I'd take Clinton and the Congress of 1996 back in a second over the crew we presently have any day.
| 518 |
Mich-again Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:07:20pm |
re: #513 iceweasel
Seriously, this was not a big deal, and the US Census Bureau dropping ACORN is only a recognition of the ODS and increasing disregard for truth on the part of some in the GOP and the wingnut right.
Then shame on them for cowering to nuts. That will only embolden the nuts to do more of the same. Did they issue a press release explaining why they dropped Acorn?
| 519 |
Randall Gross Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:08:06pm |
Someone in an IRC channel says that Will Smith is dead per CNN, searching for articles now, but not finding any.
| 520 |
pat Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:08:26pm |
Roman's bred the blood hound. Its ancestry is a bit of a mystery. There are 5 species of wild dogs in historical and present records, and many species of wolves. None evidence the drooped ears of a scent hound. The wide and elongated nose of the Blood Hound, Basset, New Newfoundland, and Labrador make breeding sense, but the drooped ears are unexplainable. The drooped ears are there to allow the hound to cut off high pitched sound. So as to allow concentration on scent.
There are very few animals on earth that can match a Blood Hounds scent. Or a Basset or Labrador. Even in the sea, few species can scent and intelligently deal with the info like a dog. No mammals. In the old days one would search with a variety of "hounds". Sight, scent, and eyes. The Blood Hound and its descendant breeds are still a mystery to modern breeders. We now think of all hounds as smell sensors. Over time the other hounds, eyes and hearing, have been lost or not bred for purpose.
But the all around guru is the Timber Wolf.
Did i tell you i love dogs?
| 521 |
Randall Gross Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:09:53pm |
re: #519 Thanos
Someone in an IRC channel says that Will Smith is dead per CNN, searching for articles now, but not finding any.
They could be misinterpreting this report
[Link: www.hollywoodreporter.com...]
| 522 |
VioletTiger Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:10:03pm |
re: #518 Mich-again
Then shame on them for cowering to nuts. That will only embolden the nuts to do more of the same. Did they issue a press release explaining why they dropped Acorn?
Drudge is listing what they are calling a 'Friday night WH policy dump'. I guess release the stuff before the weekend so the sheeple forget it by Monday.
| 523 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:10:44pm |
re: #507 That's Glenn Beck to you
[out of character]
I have wanted to register Stealth Banned Sockpuppet With Turrets for a couple of weeks. Gawd he'd be having fun right now. But I keep missing the opportunities.Oh well.
Regarding the book - no. But it sounds interesting. Most of my reading is either technical, history or politics. I should read for pleasure more.
It's a good book. It's different from Ringo's last two Posleen War books books in that it is written by Ringo alone (so lacks Tom Kratman's anti-Leftist venom) and is set 50 years after those books. If you like military sci-fi you might like it. One warning: Some of the human characters are de-Nazified Waffen SS. Ringo is careful to never glorify Nazism, but the presence of that element requires a disclaimer.
| 524 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:11:12pm |
re: #518 Mich-again
"Over the last several months, through ongoing communication with our regional offices, it is clear that ACORN's affiliation with the 2010 Census promotion has caused sufficient concern in the general public, has indeed become a distraction from our mission, and may even become a discouragement to public cooperation, negatively impacting 2010 Census efforts," read a letter from Census Director Robert M. Groves to the president of ACORN.
"Unfortunately, we no longer have confidence that our national partnership agreement is being effectively managed through your many local offices. For the reasons stated, we therefore have decided to terminate the partnership," the letter said.
| 525 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:11:18pm |
re: #502 Dan G.
Hence, exercising frugality, maintaining some savings, and purchasing adequate catastrophic insurance are all essential survival skills, while taking on debt and living beyond one's means are recipes for failure.
If you want to exonerate people for spending more than they have before they have a problem that's your business. It is immoral to force others (i.e. the ants) to subsidize those who were living recklessly (i.e. the grasshoppers).
P.S. Charles, could you add to the code for the "Preview" function that it automatically unchecks the "auto" update feature? It makes reading the preview nearly impossible.
Well outside of this horrible economy which has made everything worse, you really have the whole thing all wrong and I'm sorry you feel that way. People fall on hard times. People who work hard, do all the right things sometimes end up broke. Maybe it hasn't happened to you or anyone you know, but it's happens often.
| 526 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:12:42pm |
re: #512 Mich-again
Agreed. But what everyone fails to notice is that those Clinton/Gore boom years resulted in more CO2 in the atmosphere. Funny how "An Inconvenient Truth" skips over that detail.
Well, that's well put, those Liberal hypocrites!
I am sure that the Republican control of the House after 1994, ensuring that numerous climate bills never cleared committee, had absolutely nothing to do with that!
| 527 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:12:54pm |
re: #512 Mich-again
Agreed. But what everyone fails to notice is that those Clinton/Gore boom years resulted in more CO2 in the atmosphere. Funny how "An Inconvenient Truth" skips over that detail.
LOL you being for real? 8 years of Clinton killed the atmosphere?
| 528 |
MJ Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:13:20pm |
re: #491 MJ
This is a desperation move on the part of the US. There is no reason why the US should be meeting with Iran unless it is to discuss the Iranian nuclear program. Since this item is expressly removed from the agenda, the only thing this meeting will do is provide legitimacy to Iranian intransigence and to Ahmadinejad.
This is part of an exchange today at the State Department briefing:
QUESTION: But they just sent you this response to your offer. You offered them talks on the nuclear issue and other issues. They came back to you and said we’re willing to talk, but not about our nuclear program. So what’s the point of talking to them if you got your response – I mean, then how can you say these are not talks about talks? I mean, they’ve shown you through their official paper their willingness to engage on the nuclear issue, which is not to engage on the nuclear issue. So why would you want to have talks with them if it didn’t? And are you saying that you would sit down with Iran to talk about whether they’re willing to engage on the nuclear issue, or are you not going to sit across the table from Iran unless the nuclear issue is on the table?
MR. CROWLEY: We would expect, if we have a meeting with Iran, that it will be a – we would hope that it would be a substantive exchange. We will go into such a meeting, should Iran agree to prepare to talk about the substance of the issues and concerns that we have on Iran’s nuclear program, as was outlined this week at the IAEA. We feel that they are out of compliance with their obligations under the NPT, IAEA, Security Council resolutions. We wish to have a direct dialogue with Iran. We believe, and the President has said repeatedly, that we feel this is the way in which we will be able to, and hopefully can, resolve these issues. Our objective is clear: to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon. I don’t think that we can resolve this issue any other way but through the kind of direct dialogue --
Let's look at that last sentence: If the Obama Administration believes that it can't resolve the Iran nuclear issue any other way but through talks, then why pretend that stronger sanctions will do the trick? In addition, this statement rules out all military options. It tells the Iranian government that talking is the only option that we intent to pursue. Is it any wonder then that they ruled out talking about their nuclear program?
| 529 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:13:53pm |
re: #517 Desert Dog
I'd take Clinton and the Congress of 1996 back in a second over the crew we presently have any day.
I'm going to put that down in my diary, you know!
| 530 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:14:06pm |
re: #520 pat
Roman's bred the blood hound. Its ancestry is a bit of a mystery. There are 5 species of wild dogs in historical and present records, and many species of wolves. None evidence the drooped ears of a scent hound. The wide and elongated nose of the Blood Hound, Basset, New Newfoundland, and Labrador make breeding sense, but the drooped ears are unexplainable. The drooped ears are there to allow the hound to cut off high pitched sound. So as to allow concentration on scent.
There are very few animals on earth that can match a Blood Hounds scent. Or a Basset or Labrador. Even in the sea, few species can scent and intelligently deal with the info like a dog. No mammals. In the old days one would search with a variety of "hounds". Sight, scent, and eyes. The Blood Hound and its descendant breeds are still a mystery to modern breeders. We now think of all hounds as smell sensors. Over time the other hounds, eyes and hearing, have been lost or not bred for purpose.
But the all around guru is the Timber Wolf.Did i tell you i love dogs?
The Romans also bred huge Mastiffs for war. In both 2003 and 2004, I saw a descendant of those war dogs at Woodfield Mall. The dog in question was friendly, but bigger than many people and strong enough to carry his owner for moderate distances on his back.
| 531 |
placeholder Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:14:07pm |
re: #511 Kosh's Shadow
We have a 5 lb poodle who always wants to be near a 57 lb poodle, who doesn't like him, and once picked him up and was heading to his crate with him until I got up. Then he tossed the smaller dog away unhurt, and was locked in his crate. But the little one just doesn't get the idea that it would be safer to stay away.
Kinda like the guy in a bar with beer muscles and courage fueled by jaeger who decides to pick a fight with the really quite guy at the end of the bar because he looks "weird." Except maybe that guy spent 7 years in special forces and actually knows exactly how to kill a guy...quickly... and with extra pain. We're a real stupid species sometimes.
| 532 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:14:15pm |
re: #519 Thanos
Someone in an IRC channel says that Will Smith is dead per CNN, searching for articles now, but not finding any.
WHAT
| 533 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:14:23pm |
re: #529 marjoriemoon
I'm going to put that down in my diary, you know!
Hold it for future evidence, eh? :-)
| 534 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:15:50pm |
re: #517 Desert Dog
I'd take Clinton and the Congress of 1996 back in a second over the crew we presently have any day.
Same here, and those guys were the fucks who ruined my Dad's business in Fresno and forced us to move to this hellhole known as Los Angeles. I have immense contempt for them.
| 535 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:15:56pm |
re: #533 Desert Dog
Hold it for future evidence, eh? :-)
It's the closest thing to Clinton love I'm ever gonna get from a Republican, but I'll take it :)
| 536 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:16:13pm |
re: #515 Walter L. Newton
I just got home from work at the theatre. Quick update. What happened, was ACORN dropped as a census partner?
hey walter--
Yep. See Charles' 449.
The Census Bureau clearly stated they weren't dropping them because of any suspicion of criminal activity. They dropped them out of a recognition that it would be the new fake outrage talking point.
ACORN was one of 30,000 partners; any organisation can be a partner, There will likely be 100K partners by the time registration closes (because that's how many volunteered last time).
ACORN's role in the Census was a volunteer one, an unpaid one, it did not involve taking the census or collecting data, and it was a minimal one.
But with people like Michelle Bachmann telling people not to fill out the census form at all, they recognised that the frothy fake outrage was going to damage the census itself.
| 537 |
freetoken Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:16:58pm |
re: #504 austin_blue
But now, we are in the shit. Well qualified workers are out of work and the jobs *simply aren't there*. Those trying to claw their way out of welfare don't have a chance of making it right now. The pool of more qualified workers in front of them guarantees that.
Perhaps somewhat overstated, but with the general thrust I agree. With such an excess of labor, employees can be seen as "cheaper." Note though that is is all relative - on the world scene American workers are still quite expensive.
What the American public does not want, and therefore political leaders will not reflect back to them, is the introspection necessary to figure out the systemic causes of a failing economy.
No one wants to hear that they are not as rich as they would like to think of themselves. No one wants to hear that they bought a house that is 2x as big as they can afford, or that they have 2x the number of automobiles that they can afford, or that they won't be able to retire at 45 and be rich and spend all the afternoons on a beach in the Caribbean with an infinite number of recruits/clients downstream from them in the MLM scheme...
| 538 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:17:14pm |
re: #516 BignJames
re: #509 marjoriemoon
You two are not on message...Joe and O have been telling us things are getting better for several weeks now.
Damn, Bign, sorry to disappoint you that all Libs don't have info chips planted in their heads to spew the party line in lockstep. i know it must be a *huge* letdown that not all Libs are moonbats incapable of independent thought. It might just be that we are here because the board is anti-idiotarian, which should be embraced by all citizens.
| 539 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:17:19pm |
re: #519 Thanos
Nothing on the trashiest Hollywierd star/slut blog that is linked at Drudge.
It'd be likely to show up there first. They do "rumors" & don't wait for "facts".
| 540 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:17:41pm |
re: #515 Walter L. Newton
See this today, Walter?
WH ON HEALTH CARE, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
| 541 |
placeholder Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:18:41pm |
re: #520 pat
Roman's bred the blood hound. Its ancestry is a bit of a mystery. There are 5 species of wild dogs in historical and present records, and many species of wolves. None evidence the drooped ears of a scent hound. The wide and elongated nose of the Blood Hound, Basset, New Newfoundland, and Labrador make breeding sense, but the drooped ears are unexplainable. The drooped ears are there to allow the hound to cut off high pitched sound. So as to allow concentration on scent.
There are very few animals on earth that can match a Blood Hounds scent. Or a Basset or Labrador. Even in the sea, few species can scent and intelligently deal with the info like a dog. No mammals. In the old days one would search with a variety of "hounds". Sight, scent, and eyes. The Blood Hound and its descendant breeds are still a mystery to modern breeders. We now think of all hounds as smell sensors. Over time the other hounds, eyes and hearing, have been lost or not bred for purpose.
But the all around guru is the Timber Wolf.Did i tell you i love dogs?
I'll have to go ahead and volunteer the shark as perhaps a better sniffer. Talk about an organism that's evolved into absolute perfection for its purpose: killing. A shnoze that can smell blood two miles away in open water, skin that is essentially made of razor wire, and seven (i believe) sets of teeth. a masterwork of nature...
| 542 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:19:09pm |
re: #526 austin_blue
Well, that's well put, those Liberal hypocrites!
I am sure that the Republican control of the House after 1994, ensuring that numerous climate bills never cleared committee, had absolutely nothing to do with that!
And I'm sure the charts in An Inconvenient Truth stopped at 1992...
Oh that's right. They didn't.
| 543 |
traderjoe9 Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:19:39pm |
"The Dissapointed." How fucking fitting after that game.
Screw the Dodgers.
| 544 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:20:38pm |
re: #537 freetoken
Perhaps somewhat overstated, but with the general thrust I agree. With such an excess of labor, employees can be seen as "cheaper." Note though that is is all relative - on the world scene American workers are still quite expensive.
What the American public does not want, and therefore political leaders will not reflect back to them, is the introspection necessary to figure out the systemic causes of a failing economy.
No one wants to hear that they are not as rich as they would like to think of themselves. No one wants to hear that they bought a house that is 2x as big as they can afford, or that they have 2x the number of automobiles that they can afford, or that they won't be able to retire at 45 and be rich and spend all the afternoons on a beach in the Caribbean with an infinite number of recruits/clients downstream from them in the MLM scheme...
Yes, but I would mention that there are millions of people who got caught up in this downward spiral through no fault of their own. The cost of living rose while wages and bonuses did not. And Obama was right the other night. Healthcare costs are strangling people out of their homes.
| 545 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:20:55pm |
re: #543 traderjoe9
"The Dissapointed." How fucking fitting after that game.
Screw the Dodgers.
Cheers to that. I'm hoping that they fall out of the race, but I don't think it's going to happen.
| 546 |
Aye Pod Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:21:04pm |
re: #536 iceweasel
hey walter--
Yep. See Charles' 449.
The Census Bureau clearly stated they weren't dropping them because of any suspicion of criminal activity. They dropped them out of a recognition that it would be the new fake outrage talking point.ACORN was one of 30,000 partners; any organisation can be a partner, There will likely be 100K partners by the time registration closes (because that's how many volunteered last time).
ACORN's role in the Census was a volunteer one, an unpaid one, it did not involve taking the census or collecting data, and it was a minimal one.
But with people like Michelle Bachmann telling people not to fill out the census form at all, they recognised that the frothy fake outrage was going to damage the census itself.
Quite sensibly. They are obviously aware of what Mark Twain noted:
"A lie can make it half way around the world before the truth has time to put its boots on."
| 547 |
VioletTiger Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:21:17pm |
re: #541 placeholder
I'll have to go ahead and volunteer the shark as perhaps a better sniffer. Talk about an organism that's evolved into absolute perfection for its purpose: killing. A shnoze that can smell blood two miles away in open water, skin that is essentially made of razor wire, and seven (i believe) sets of teeth. a masterwork of nature...
OR...take a bite out of the Golden Gate Bridge (see my #395) ;)
| 548 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:21:47pm |
re: #526 austin_blue
Well, that's well put, those Liberal hypocrites!
I am sure that the Republican control of the House after 1994, ensuring that numerous climate bills never cleared committee, had absolutely nothing to do with that!
You're on to us, Austin. We want to kill the earth. That is our goal. We also want to make the drinking water dirty, the air dirtier and we just hate poor people. All we worship is money, the bible and Sarah Palin.
You have the right all figured out...congratulations.
| 549 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:21:58pm |
re: #538 austin_blue
Damn, Bign, sorry to disappoint you that all Libs don't have info chips planted in their heads to spew the party line in lockstep. i know it must be a *huge* letdown that not all Libs are moonbats incapable of independent thought. It might just be that we are here because the board is anti-idiotarian, which should be embraced by all citizens.
Yesss mahster.
| 550 |
Reginald Perrin Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:22:15pm |
Rodan is really working hard to cover his tracks. He recently deleted every single thread posted at the first Think Progress Watch. I don't blame him, that site was a complete disaster.
The simian faced Latin King wannabe is starting to become frightened.
He just told everyone at the stalker blog that I am a convicted pedophile, the deluded boy has jumped the shark. He doesn't know who I am and just makes things up.
At least he was kind enough to say I was into little girls.
I feels sorry for his two dogs, he will probably take his anger on on them
| 551 |
pat Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:22:36pm |
re: #530 Dark_Falcon
Once saw a Timber Wolf and an English Mastiff (40 lbs heavier than the Roman) in a fight. At a party with Love People. Shheeesh. I picked up my GF and tossed her to the door. Bunch of stoned hippies did not realize that it was serious. I grabbed a pillow. Can you imagine a Timber Wolf as a pet? Frickin chaos.
| 552 |
Mich-again Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:22:36pm |
re: #527 marjoriemoon
LOL you being for real? 8 years of Clinton killed the atmosphere?
Oh not at all. Those were good years here! My point is that at the same time Gore brags about how robust the economy was during the 8 years of Clinton Gore, which it was, he never connects the dots between more economic activity and the increased level of CO2 in the atmosphere. But when factories are running overtime to fill product demand, that means those factories have a larger carbon footprint than they would have if demand was slow and they were shut down for weeks on end.
My point is, you shouldn't brag about how the economic activity you produced was a good thing while pointing out that excess economic activity is killing the planet. But Al Gore gets away with it.
| 553 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:24:58pm |
re: #550 Reginald Perrin
Rodan is really working hard to cover his tracks. He recently deleted every single thread posted at the first Think Progress Watch. I don't blame him, that site was a complete disaster.
The simian faced Latin King wannabe is starting to become frightened.
He just told everyone at the stalker blog that I am a convicted pedophile, the deluded boy has jumped the shark. He doesn't know who I am and just makes things up.At least he was kind enough to say I was into little girls.
I feels sorry for his two dogs, he will probably take his anger on on them
They do make things up.
I don't want to think about that last line at all.
He can delete whatever he likes. The feds seize his computer it won't matter.
| 554 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:26:52pm |
re: #536 iceweasel
hey walter--
Yep. See Charles' 449.
The Census Bureau clearly stated they weren't dropping them because of any suspicion of criminal activity. They dropped them out of a recognition that it would be the new fake outrage talking point.ACORN was one of 30,000 partners; any organisation can be a partner, There will likely be 100K partners by the time registration closes (because that's how many volunteered last time).
ACORN's role in the Census was a volunteer one, an unpaid one, it did not involve taking the census or collecting data, and it was a minimal one.
But with people like Michelle Bachmann telling people not to fill out the census form at all, they recognised that the frothy fake outrage was going to damage the census itself.
I am getting tired of the Obama administration and our government agencies loosing their moral compass and caving in to the wacky right.
Van Jones was perfect for as the head of the "green jobs" office. Obama should have come right out and ask Van Jones to stay. But, no, they gave in to the wacky right.
And this ACORN thing, heck, Obama should have told the census agency that ACORN was one of the best partners they could have. But, no, they gave in to the wacky right.
And in that health care speech the other night, promising not to insure illegal aliens and not fund abortions. You know he is just caving in to the wacky right who don't like contributing tax money to illegal aliens and abortions.
And why does he have to keep fudging the truth about employment. Hell, just tell the country that unemployment is going to skyrocket. The only reason he keeps saying his policies are working to stop job loss is because the wacky right keeps complaining about it.
What can the future hold? Watch him give in on cap and trade next, just to please the wacky right.
| 555 |
Opilio Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:27:17pm |
re: #548 Desert Dog
All we worship is money, the bible and Sarah Palin.
Not necessarily in that order.
/
| 556 |
Dan G. Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:27:41pm |
re: #525 marjoriemoon
I do not have it wrong. I have been in such situations, as a child, due to my parents' mistakes. We (the children) were supported by our family and from charity brought by an aunt from her church (all voluntary).
Now, I know that such things might not fix all situations, but that does not excuse forcing others to support people that they do not want to. You are allowing the ends to justify the means.
| 557 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:27:47pm |
re: #546 Jimmah
Quite sensibly. They are obviously aware of what Mark Twain noted:
"A lie can make it half way around the world before the truth has time to put its boots on."
And that other great Mark Twain quote:
"The rumours of ACORN's criminality were greatly exaggerated"
heh.
| 558 |
irish rose Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:27:58pm |
re: #550 Reginald Perrin
Rodan is really working hard to cover his tracks. He recently deleted every single thread posted at the first Think Progress Watch. I don't blame him, that site was a complete disaster.
The simian faced Latin King wannabe is starting to become frightened.
He just told everyone at the stalker blog that I am a convicted pedophile, the deluded boy has jumped the shark. He doesn't know who I am and just makes things up.At least he was kind enough to say I was into little girls.
I feels sorry for his two dogs, he will probably take his anger on on them
You have mail, reggie :).
| 559 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:29:37pm |
re: #540 Desert Dog
See this today, Walter?
WH ON HEALTH CARE, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
This paragraph is interesting...
"Undocumented immigrants would be able to buy insurance in the non-exchange private market, just as they do today. That market will shrink as the exchange takes hold, but it will still exist and will be subject to reforms such as the bans on pre-existing conditions and caps."
Is the Obama administration admitting that the government health care proposals will eventually take over private insurance?
Think about this paragraph.
| 560 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:29:48pm |
re: #552 Mich-again
Oh not at all. Those were good years here! My point is that at the same time Gore brags about how robust the economy was during the 8 years of Clinton Gore, which it was, he never connects the dots between more economic activity and the increased level of CO2 in the atmosphere. But when factories are running overtime to fill product demand, that means those factories have a larger carbon footprint than they would have if demand was slow and they were shut down for weeks on end.
My point is, you shouldn't brag about how the economic activity you produced was a good thing while pointing out that excess economic activity is killing the planet. But Al Gore gets away with it.
I realize you're not a Gore fan, but he has dedicated himself to this topic through his entire career. It's just that the "political climate" wasn't there. There wasn't much the Clinton admin could have done. It's amazing what he DID get done. But these climate topics, healthcare even, all of that was just basically off the table at that time.
| 561 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:30:37pm |
re: #554 Walter L. Newton
You don't do sarc tags, but don't think I can't see right through you. ;)
And in that health care speech the other night, promising not to insure illegal aliens and not fund abortions. You know he is just caving in to the wacky right who don't like contributing tax money to illegal aliens and abortions.
Actually, care for illegal aliens was always ruled out, as was 'taxpayer funded abortion'. People are refusing to see that, though, and the WH has to keep repeating it over and over.
| 562 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:31:29pm |
re: #559 Walter L. Newton
This paragraph is interesting...
"Undocumented immigrants would be able to buy insurance in the non-exchange private market, just as they do today. That market will shrink as the exchange takes hold, but it will still exist and will be subject to reforms such as the bans on pre-existing conditions and caps."
Is the Obama administration admitting that the government health care proposals will eventually take over private insurance?
Think about this paragraph.
I think he's saying that the new exchange will take over the private market.
| 563 |
solomonpanting Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:32:15pm |
re: #526 austin_blue
Well, that's well put, those Liberal hypocrites!
I am sure that the Republican control of the House after 1994, ensuring that numerous climate bills never cleared committee, had absolutely nothing to do with that!
I do remember the heavy GOP foot on the necks of Dems when the Byrd-Hagel Resolution passed 95-0 way back, back back in 1997.
| 564 |
freetoken Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:32:54pm |
re: #544 marjoriemoon
Yes, but I would mention that there are millions of people who got caught up in this downward spiral through no fault of their own. The cost of living rose while wages and bonuses did not...
Hmmm... usually I avoid the concept of "whose fault is it?" if only because an adult (assuming they are mentally capable of taking care of themselves) is by default the person responsible for themselves.
It can't be any other way.
Perhaps a more fruitful question to ask would be: "how did our society get into the state where otherwise productive people have seen their ability to provide and plan for themselves diminished?"
This isn't just about "self help" or "individualism", etc.
Rather, I am concerned that many of my fellow citizens make decisions while being very poorly informed. The amount of duplicity and deceit out there (from financial institutions, advertisers, the internet, talk radio, etc. and perhaps even government organs) is huge.
E.g., real estate agents are (IMO) worse than car salesmen, if for no other reason than the amount of debt is so much greater.
We can go into a long list of proposed causes on why people make so many poor choices, or why poor choices are made for people when they are young... but I'm not sure it would get us anywhere unless we could narrow the topic.
WRT "healthcare", I've yet to see many of the talking-heads ponder the thought that healthcare ought to be expensive, since it is so important and we have progressed so far since the 19th century and now have the means of greatly extending life. There are a few (e.g., Mickey Kaus), but many people are acting like expensive healthcare is inherently bad. Perhaps it is just the nature of the beast?
As we, as a society, push back the date of death of individuals does it not make sense that such an undertaking would use a considerable amount of our resources?
| 566 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:33:49pm |
re: #561 iceweasel
You don't do sarc tags, but don't think I can't see right through you. ;)
Actually, care for illegal aliens was always ruled out, as was 'taxpayer funded abortion'. People are refusing to see that, though, and the WH has to keep repeating it over and over.
The White House does not have a plan that will ensure that no illegal alien EVER manages to illegally obtain health insurance. Therefore, it is exactly as though they were going to provide all illegal aliens with free health coverage at taxpyer expense.
//I think this is the argument.
| 567 |
Mich-again Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:33:54pm |
re: #560 marjoriemoon
I realize you're not a Gore fan, but he has dedicated himself to this topic through his entire career. It's just that the "political climate" wasn't there. There wasn't much the Clinton admin could have done. It's amazing what he DID get done. But these climate topics, healthcare even, all of that was just basically off the table at that time.
What did Clinton/Gore ever get done regarding global warming?? Sign Kyoto?
In July 1997, by a vote of 95 to 0, the Senate resolved not to ratify the treaty until developing nations agree to abide by the same restrictions imposed on the United States. Vice President Al Gore agreed last December, saying, "We will not submit [Kyoto] for ratification until there's meaningful participation by key developing nations."
| 568 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:34:32pm |
re: #548 Desert Dog
You're on to us, Austin. We want to kill the earth. That is our goal. We also want to make the drinking water dirty, the air dirtier and we just hate poor people. All we worship is money, the bible and Sarah Palin.
You have the right all figured out...congratulations.
Interesting. I make a legitimate riposte to your #512 that blaming Clinton/Gore for not passing climate change legislation was wholly because the *dozens* of bills posted by Dems after 1994 and supported by the Prez and the Veep didn't make it out of R controlled House committees. You respond by posting this ridiculous comment. I inferred no such thing.
And people wonder why discourse has gotten to this point? Have mercy!
| 569 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:35:04pm |
re: #561 iceweasel
You don't do sarc tags, but don't think I can't see right through you. ;)
Actually, care for illegal aliens was always ruled out, as was 'taxpayer funded abortion'. People are refusing to see that, though, and the WH has to keep repeating it over and over.
The problem for them is that Obama is not trusted. Because taxpayer-funded abortions have been push by some leftists, people assume that Obama is for them. Much of the reason for the lack of trust is that lack of transparency in the Obama Administration.
| 570 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:35:13pm |
re: #559 Walter L. Newton
This paragraph is interesting...
"Undocumented immigrants would be able to buy insurance in the non-exchange private market, just as they do today. That market will shrink as the exchange takes hold, but it will still exist and will be subject to reforms such as the bans on pre-existing conditions and caps."
Is the Obama administration admitting that the government health care proposals will eventually take over private insurance?
Think about this paragraph.
That is a very interesting article. The White House basically comes out and says that there need to be a mechanism to insure "undocumented workers" will not get benefits...an ID verification that was not present in the original form. Now, if it was already not allowed from line 246, why did they have to add that? Because his plan would have allowed illegals to get coverage...in spite of his claim the other night to the contrary.
| 571 |
pat Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:35:34pm |
Gore knows science like I know knitting. His real specialty is fleecing the rubes of money. Something he learned well from his old man.
| 572 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:35:58pm |
re: #569 Dark_Falcon
And in fact, that lack of transparency shouldn't be there considering all the talk about being the most transparent administration ever.
| 573 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:37:07pm |
re: #568 austin_blue
Interesting. I make a legitimate riposte to your #512 that blaming Clinton/Gore for not passing climate change legislation was wholly because the *dozens* of bills posted by Dems after 1994 and supported by the Prez and the Veep didn't make it out of R controlled House committees. You respond by posting this ridiculous comment. I inferred no such thing.
And people wonder why discourse has gotten to this point? Have mercy!
Think that was Mich-Again making that point. I have yet to feel the sharp blade of your rapier wit this evening...still waiting
| 574 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:37:08pm |
re: #561 iceweasel
You don't do sarc tags, but don't think I can't see right through you. ;)
Actually, care for illegal aliens was always ruled out, as was 'taxpayer funded abortion'. People are refusing to see that, though, and the WH has to keep repeating it over and over.
There are two places in HR 3200 and AAHCA that excludes illegals from the health care exchange.
But the concern is making that work. There is no enforcement include, and it probably shouldn't be included, since this is a health care proposal, not immigration law.
But the laws we DO have in effect to prevent illegals from obtaining social services are not being enforced, so why should we expect that it will be any better.
Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget
So, Obama is correct, the bill excludes illegals. But the devil is in the details, and up to now, illegals have been able to fraud the state and federal governments and get public services.
So, bottom line, still a problem.
P.S. Sarcasm, that post was from my heart :)
| 575 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:37:31pm |
re: #562 SanFranciscoZionist
I think he's saying that the new exchange will take over the private market.
Bingo!
| 576 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:37:39pm |
re: #563 solomonpanting
I do remember the heavy GOP foot on the necks of Dems when the Byrd-Hagel Resolution passed 95-0 way back, back back in 1997.
Did you miss the Hagel part?
| 577 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:38:20pm |
| 578 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:39:32pm |
re: #572 TheMatrix31
And in fact, that lack of transparency shouldn't be there considering all the talk about being the most transparent administration ever.
Agreed. If Obama was simply secretive and admitted it, I'd have less of a problem with it. It's the hypocrisy that truly bothers me.
| 579 |
Dan G. Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:39:45pm |
re: #577 SanFranciscoZionist
Public control of private companies?
| 580 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:39:59pm |
re: #570 Desert Dog
That is a very interesting article. The White House basically comes out and says that there need to be a mechanism to insure "undocumented workers" will not get benefits...an ID verification that was not present in the original form. Now, if it was already not allowed from line 246, why did they have to add that? Because his plan would have allowed illegals to get coverage...in spite of his claim the other night to the contrary.
No it wouldn't. The plan is not immigration enforcement. I can show you the language in two places about illegals. Obama was correct.
The problems is we don't have decent enforcement and illegals have been able to get all kinds of public services already which they are not entitled to.
That's the problem.
| 581 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:40:35pm |
re: #579 Dan G.
Public control of private companies?
No, public regulation of private companies. No?
| 582 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:40:37pm |
re: #569 Dark_Falcon
The problem for them is that Obama is not trusted. Because taxpayer-funded abortions have been push by some leftists, people assume that Obama is for them. Much of the reason for the lack of trust is that lack of transparency in the Obama Administration.
Well, I'll certainly agree that the Obama Admin isn't living up to its promise of trasparency anywhere near as much as I would like, but it's also true that the distrust of Obama was there from the beginning. The nirthers are another symptom of it. Fuels crazy rhetoric and the sad result is that the legitimate concerns get drowned out, and then it's easy for others to dismiss them as more crying Wolf.
| 583 |
sagehen Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:40:43pm |
re: #353 Dark_Falcon
What would his being circumcised prove? I'm circumcised, and I'm a Christian. Even if the Schlongers were right, it would mean nothing.
Maybe they think if he's uncircumcised, it would "prove" he wasn't born in the U.S.
| 584 |
Dan G. Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:41:27pm |
re: #581 SanFranciscoZionist
Is there a difference between regulation and control?
| 585 |
Reginald Perrin Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:41:28pm |
re: #558 irish rose
I like the news in the first email, its nice to know someone is watching.
Regarding the second email, I feel honored and accept the invitation.
This is hilarious, down at the stalker blog Rodan is denying he has two dogs.
This means that he lied to me when he emailed those death threats in July
that are now posted at TPWW. It is there for everyone to read, so he is lying tonight or he was lying when he sent the email.
Either way poor deranged Twajie has proven once again he is not to be believed.
| 586 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:41:47pm |
re: #577 SanFranciscoZionist
OK--that's still private companies...
It sounds more like he is saying the public exchange will become bigger than the private companies, eventually pushing them out of business, or minimal business.
| 587 |
pat Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:42:46pm |
re: #570 Desert Dog
Of course. it is all BS, purposely designed to be incomprehensible, with related subjects often hundreds of pages apart. Illegals will get coverage, abortions will be paid for, private plans will disappear, workers , except Federal , will not get to get to keep present plans, and a "citizens" panel of "experts" will decide what care you will need when you get sick. Oh, BTW, you, the tax payer, will pay for ALL aliens because they are prohibited from being taxed for not having insurance.
| 588 |
sagehen Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:43:10pm |
re: #368 SanFranciscoZionist
BTW, does anyone know if Colin Powell has Jewish ancestry at all? He looks like an MOT to me.
He speaks Yiddish, if that helps.
| 589 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:43:19pm |
re: #569 Dark_Falcon
The problem for them is that Obama is not trusted. Because taxpayer-funded abortions have been push by some leftists, people assume that Obama is for them. Much of the reason for the lack of trust is that lack of transparency in the Obama Administration.
Actually that first line is not correct. Obama is not trusted by people who don't trust him. The same people who believe that he is a foreign born socialist secret Muslim who wants to kill Grandma after putting her in front of a death panel.
You know, those people.
Most people are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until there is a real, live health reform bill on the table and up for a vote. I think sane people on both sides of the aisle should keep their powder dry until there is some reality to discuss. Right now, it's legislative vapor.
| 590 |
Opilio Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:43:33pm |
re: #561 iceweasel
Actually, care for illegal aliens was always ruled out, as was 'taxpayer funded abortion'. People are refusing to see that, though, and the WH has to keep repeating it over and over.
From FactCheck.org:
The NRLC’s Johnson said "the bill backed by the White House (H.R. 3200) explicitly authorizes the government plan to cover all elective abortions." And our analysis shows that Johnson’s statement is correct. Though we of course take no position on whether the legislation should allow or not allow coverage for abortions, the House bill does just that.
| 591 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:44:20pm |
re: #564 freetoken
Hmmm... usually I avoid the concept of "whose fault is it?" if only because an adult (assuming they are mentally capable of taking care of themselves) is by default the person responsible for themselves.
It can't be any other way.
Perhaps a more fruitful question to ask would be: "how did our society get into the state where otherwise productive people have seen their ability to provide and plan for themselves diminished?"
This isn't just about "self help" or "individualism", etc.
At the risk of sounding trite, shit happens. And it happens to people who never thought it would. Happened to our family and my cousin's family. I don't blame my parents. They worked hard, provided very well for us, but they lost everything and had to start over. Luckily we had relatives that could help but it isn't so for everyone.
Rather, I am concerned that many of my fellow citizens make decisions while being very poorly informed. The amount of duplicity and deceit out there (from financial institutions, advertisers, the internet, talk radio, etc. and perhaps even government organs) is huge.
There are so many situations to be taken into consideration about personal finance, we couldn't list it. To the elder parent who needs to be cared for instead of a nursing home, to children trying to get into college, to the lack of jobs for those lost to overseas companies. There will always be deceit and deception, but I don't think it rules the day. Anywhere near it.
E.g., real estate agents are (IMO) worse than car salesmen, if for no other reason than the amount of debt is so much greater.
We can go into a long list of proposed causes on why people make so many poor choices, or why poor choices are made for people when they are young... but I'm not sure it would get us anywhere unless we could narrow the topic.
WRT "healthcare", I've yet to see many of the talking-heads ponder the thought that healthcare ought to be expensive, since it is so important and we have progressed so far since the 19th century and now have the means of greatly extending life. There are a few (e.g., Mickey Kaus), but many people are acting like expensive healthcare is inherently bad. Perhaps it is just the nature of the beast?
As we, as a society, push back the date of death of individuals does it not make sense that such an undertaking would use a considerable amount of our resources?
Recently a friend of mine needed chemo. She fell into the Medicare donut hole, the gap. Her medication was $12,000 for 3 months and she had to cough it all up. She ended up getting an advocacy group to cover her meds or she would have died... and she may still, but most definitely without the treatment. This after about $100,000 worth of surgery and operations. The cancer was not her fault. This is an outrage.
| 592 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:44:40pm |
re: #584 Dan G.
Is there a difference between regulation and control?
Yes. All industries in the U.S. are regulated by laws. This does not mean that there is government 'control' of companies doing business under those laws.
| 593 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:45:56pm |
re: #582 iceweasel
Well, I'll certainly agree that the Obama Admin isn't living up to its promise of trasparency anywhere near as much as I would like, but it's also true that the distrust of Obama was there from the beginning. The nirthers are another symptom of it. Fuels crazy rhetoric and the sad result is that the legitimate concerns get drowned out, and then it's easy for others to dismiss them as more crying Wolf.
There was only distrust of him because of all the stuff we knew about from the hardcore research done by LGF and stuff.
| 594 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:46:06pm |
re: #592 SanFranciscoZionist
Yes. All industries in the U.S. are regulated by laws. This does not mean that there is government 'control' of companies doing business under those laws.
Insurance is already uber-regulated. Under this plan, it will be even more so. What to cover, who to cover, how much to pay, how much can you charge, etc.
| 595 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:46:09pm |
re: #586 Walter L. Newton
It sounds more like he is saying the public exchange will become bigger than the private companies, eventually pushing them out of business, or minimal business.
No, I believe what's going on is that all individually purchased private plans will eventually have to be part of the HIE, the Health Insurance Exchange, which is going to have a set of standards that all plans have to meet regarding pre-existing conditions, etc.
So you can buy a private plan, but the plan has to compete against all the others in the HIE as well.
| 596 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:46:11pm |
re: #573 Desert Dog
Think that was Mich-Again making that point. I have yet to feel the sharp blade of your rapier wit this evening...still waiting
Ach, well, I'm wielding an epee this evening. Trying to keep the volume down.
| 597 |
Dan G. Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:46:13pm |
re: #589 austin_blue
Except for the very fact that such an action is being considered. Whether the government should have any role in the health care economy (i.e. the net-sum of all the decisions of medical practitioners, device/drug manufactures, and patients) is a perfectly sane thing to discuss; the details wouldn't change the answer to such a philosophical-level principle.
| 598 |
charlesincharge Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:47:25pm |
re: #480 marjoriemoon
He vetoed it twice, sending it back to Congress until HE got what HE wanted.
He vetoed it twice then Dick Morris told him he'd lose the '96 election if he vetoed it again. He signed a bill that was 99% the same as the ones he vetoed. Thanks to Clinton's selfish motives, the bill became law. This law brought more children out of poverty in 6 years than LBJ's "war on poverty" did in 26+ years.
| 599 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:47:36pm |
re: #590 Opilio
Yes, but there is no extra funding for abortions. Elective abortion is going to be covered the same way it has been by most insurance plans.
| 600 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:47:39pm |
re: #586 Walter L. Newton
It sounds more like he is saying the public exchange will become bigger than the private companies, eventually pushing them out of business, or minimal business.
AFAIK, please feel free to correct, there is no 'public exchange'. The exchange is for private healthcare insurers. How can there be a public marketplace when it isn't agreed there will be a public option of any sort?
| 601 |
The Shadow Do Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:49:03pm |
Eight years ago today 2,973 people, men women and children, were murdered in this country in a most horrific manner.
This week Khalid Sheik Mohamad was photographed by the Red Cross looking fit as a fiddle.
To date, more than 4,000 American heroes have died in response and there is no quit in them.
Do you feel the call to community service?
Never forget.
Never mind.
Just a slogan now, right?
| 602 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:49:40pm |
re: #590 Opilio
from your link:
The truth is that bills now before Congress don’t require federal money to be used for supporting abortion coverage. So the president is right to that limited extent. But it’s equally true that House and Senate legislation would allow a new "public" insurance plan to cover abortions, despite language added to the House bill that technically forbids using public funds to pay for them. Obama has said in the past that "reproductive services" would be covered by his public plan, so it’s likely that any new federal insurance plan would cover abortion unless Congress expressly prohibits that. Low- and moderate-income persons who would choose the "public plan" would qualify for federal subsidies to purchase it. Private plans that cover abortion also could be purchased with the help of federal subsidies.
| 604 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:51:51pm |
re: #597 Dan G.
Except for the very fact that such an action is being considered. Whether the government should have any role in the health care economy (i.e. the net-sum of all the decisions of medical practitioners, device/drug manufactures, and patients) is a perfectly sane thing to discuss; the details wouldn't change the answer to such a philosophical-level principle.
Ummm...Medicaire, Medicaid, the VA, the Military...
*Any* role? I think that philosophical question has been asked and answered.
| 605 |
pat Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:51:53pm |
re: #591 marjoriemoon
Fine. But that does not mean we have to pay for her treatment. If you read The Daily Mail, today had an article about how the British government has suppressed the knowledge of dozens of cancer drugs because they do not wish to pay for them. Do you think Science Czar Holdren really cares about your friend? You? Anyone who is not a productive member of society? Obama and his friends are loons.
| 606 |
Opilio Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:52:12pm |
re: #568 austin_blue
You respond by posting this ridiculous comment. I inferred no such thing.
And people wonder why discourse has gotten to this point? Have mercy!
Pot, meet kettle. (And you implied no such thing.)
| 607 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:52:54pm |
re: #600 SanFranciscoZionist
AFAIK, please feel free to correct, there is no 'public exchange'. The exchange is for private healthcare insurers. How can there be a public marketplace when it isn't agreed there will be a public option of any sort?
Since the article used the word "private market" automatically used the work "public" to identify the federal "exchange." No, "public" doesn't appear in the article, but I am extrapolating as to the nature of the exchange.
| 608 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:52:58pm |
re: #598 charlesincharge
Well you have your spin, I have mine.
[Link: www.brookings.edu...]
Q: Why did President Clinton veto two versions of the welfare reform bill, and what ultimately made him acquiesce?
A: Many Democrats were horrified by the Republican welfare reform bill because, among other reasons, they believed it put young mothers and their children at risk and because it reduced or eliminated welfare benefits for noncitizens. Thus, Clinton vetoed two early versions of the bill both because he thought the bills were too harsh and because he was trying to force Republicans to change the bill so that more Democrats would support it. Republicans made a few changes in the bill, including adding more money for child care, expanding Medicaid coverage for children, and reducing some of the cuts in social programs, and passed the bill a third time in July of 1996. On this occasion, half the Democrats in Congress voted in favor of the bill and Clinton signed it. Some critics charged Clinton with abandoning his party or trying to strengthen his political position in a cynical bid to be re-elected (he signed the bill less than three months before the presidential election of 1996). But I think he signed the bill because he believed the welfare system was flawed, he believed in tough work requirements, and he also supported several other reforms in the bill, especially the child support enforcement reforms. Republicans were able to change the bill enough, while preserving all its basic features, to convince Clinton to defy the left wing of his party and join Republicans in creating a new era in welfare policy.
| 609 |
JHW Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:53:26pm |
From a very short article in the Kiev Post, yesterday;
Nervous in Ukraine
After the Duma approved law on use of Russian armed forces overseas, several dozen Ukrainian intellectuals ask the West for security guarantees.More than two dozen Ukrainian intellectuals are appealing to U.S. President Barack Obama and other Western leaders, warning of a greater Kremlin threat. Specifically, the group of influential Ukrainians is calling for stronger security guarantees to protect Ukraine from Russia, whose leaders they accuse of meddling in Ukrainian affairs.
In an open letter made public on Sept. 10, the authors expressed fears that Russia could use military force against Ukraine. They called on Western leaders to hold an international conference to provide guarantees for Ukraine’s security.
“The Russian leadership has consciously chosen a path to destroy existing security systems, a main aim of which is to subjugate Ukraine within the geopolitical interests of Russia. There are signs that the Kremlin is not ruling out using its arsenal and military methods. The informational war against Ukraine has reached unprecedented levels. A picture of Ukraine as the enemy is being formed within Russian society,” the letter reads.
This week, Russian lawmakers adopted in the first reading a new military doctrine that sanctions use of Russia’s army abroad to protect national interests. Referring to this development, the Ukrainian intellectuals said: “For the first time in many years, there are signs that the Kremlin would not rule out using forceful means to reach its foreign-political aims with respect to Ukraine.”
| 610 |
MJ Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:53:32pm |
re: #588 sagehen
He speaks Yiddish, if that helps.
That's probably stretching it a bit. He understands a smattering of words:
[Link: www.snopes.com...]
| 611 |
freetoken Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:53:54pm |
re: #591 marjoriemoon
Please don't misunderstand me - I'm not trying to heap a burden upon those, such as your friend, who find themselves overwhelmed by life-threatening problems.
From the example you gave: $10,000 for 90 days of meds, $100,000 for surgery. My point is this: what does it mean (for us trying to make decisions about healthcare) for these items to be like this? If they are truly too expensive, then how could we make them less so? Or, if we feel they are priced correctly, how do we (as a society) prepare and plan for paying for such?
Many families, including my own, have been the beneficiaries of good will from either medical providers (hospitals) or charities that pay for uncovered costs. I know this exists, and I'm not sure it could be any other way.
Anger at death is one of the most universal emotions we feel (I don't think I'm overgeneralizing here, am I?) Who wants one of their loved ones to die? If we really think we ought to spare no expense in staving off death, then we (individually and as a society) really need to plan for that expense and accept it.
| 612 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:54:02pm |
re: #589 austin_blue
Actually that first line is not correct. Obama is not trusted by people who don't trust him. The same people who believe that he is a foreign born socialist secret Muslim who wants to kill Grandma after putting her in front of a death panel.
You know, those people.
Most people are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until there is a real, live health reform bill on the table and up for a vote. I think sane people on both sides of the aisle should keep their powder dry until there is some reality to discuss. Right now, it's legislative vapor.
Part of the reason neither side can afford to hold fire too much is the need to maintain their base of support. A least some yelling at the other side is needed to maintain public support. I don't like that fact very much, but like the song says: "It's like that, and that's the way it is."
| 614 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:54:32pm |
re: #601 The Shadow Do
Eight years ago today 2,973 people, men women and children, were murdered in this country in a most horrific manner.
This week Khalid Sheik Mohamad was photographed by the Red Cross looking fit as a fiddle.
To date, more than 4,000 American heroes have died in response and there is no quit in them.
Do you feel the call to community service?
Never forget.
Never mind.
Just a slogan now, right?
I found nothing wrong with Obama's pentagon speech. Give the man credit where credit is due. He was comparing the greatest public service, the military to what a person can do himself, in a smaller way.
| 615 |
Desert Dog Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:54:58pm |
| 616 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:55:11pm |
re: #598 charlesincharge
Are you CJ's sock puppet?
| 617 |
Dan G. Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:55:24pm |
re: #592 SanFranciscoZionist
Dictating that certain procedures must be covered (i.e. controlling the products offered) and the acceptable price for such are both beyond the "control" that is inherent to any law. These types of decisions are supposed to be made by the executives/leadership of the company.
Interference with agreements made by consenting adults crosses the line between a legitimate law and, IMHO, and inappropriate regulation. If the activity, done as a part of industry or by an individual at large, harms or defrauds another, it is appropriate to have laws against that. But a new law, or set of laws, that forces businesses to offer products that they don't want, at prices they don't want, and forces customers to purchase products they don't want is wholly inappropriate.
| 620 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:57:19pm |
re: #605 pat
Fine. But that does not mean we have to pay for her treatment. If you read The Daily Mail, today had an article about how the British government has suppressed the knowledge of dozens of cancer drugs because they do not wish to pay for them. Do you think Science Czar Holdren really cares about your friend? You? Anyone who is not a productive member of society? Obama and his friends are loons.
Pat, I don't know what to say. Hopefully you won't find yourself in such a predicament. This is the worse case scenario I know of, personally, but I know of many others.
I understand and agree with the necessity of R&D, but $12,000 for 3 months supply of any medication is an outrage.
Is it Obama who cares not for the "less productive members of our society" or is the Right who won't support the simplest of social programs that make the most sense. This healthcare plan isn't going to come out of taxes, so what's your issue?
| 621 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:57:22pm |
re: #618 pat
I really like Giuliani
Giuliani has waaay too much baggage to ever run for POTUS. I know many on the left were just praying he would get the Repub nomination, because they couldn't wait to release the hounds.
| 622 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:57:41pm |
re: #607 Walter L. Newton
Since the article used the word "private market" automatically used the work "public" to identify the federal "exchange." No, "public" doesn't appear in the article, but I am extrapolating as to the nature of the exchange.
Here's the factsheet. Feel free to be skeptical about it, but this is what they're talking about.
| 623 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:57:55pm |
re: #606 Opilio
Pot, meet kettle. (And you implied no such thing.)
Hey guys! I think Opilio is just here to get people shouting at each other! No real substance, just dig dig dig.
Okay, here goes:
I unclog my nose at you! I faaart in you general direction, you English pig-dog!
| 624 |
Aye Pod Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:58:38pm |
re: #605 pat
Fine. But that does not mean we have to pay for her treatment. If you read The Daily Mail, today had an article about how the British government has suppressed the knowledge of dozens of cancer drugs because they do not wish to pay for them. Do you think Science Czar Holdren really cares about your friend? You? Anyone who is not a productive member of society? Obama and his friends are loons.
The Daily Mail is one of the least reputable of the tabloids (not exactly a stellar category to begin with) in the UK in terms of factual accuracy in reporting. Not saying the story is necessarily false, but I'd look for confirmation elsewhere.
| 625 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:59:24pm |
re: #612 Dark_Falcon
Part of the reason neither side can afford to hold fire too much is the need to maintain their base of support. A least some yelling at the other side is needed to maintain public support. I don't like that fact very much, but like the song says: "It's like that, and that's the way it is."
I don't like it either. Stirs up the crazies on both sides. There has *got* to be a better way. I'd vote for beer summits!
| 626 |
Dan G. Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:00:31pm |
re: #604 austin_blue
That is does currently have the role doesn't answer the question whether it should. People murder other people all the time, does that close the ethical question also? When slavery was legal, did that close the ethical question of whether slavery was appropriate?
Finally, and back in the scope of what has been proposed so far, how does the presence of public funds taken by tax and redistributed to other compare with legislation aimed at changing how private enterprises are allowed to do business and that is currently slated to force individuals to purchase a product that they don't necessarily want or need?
| 627 |
The Shadow Do Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:00:43pm |
re: #614 Walter L. Newton
I found nothing wrong with Obama's pentagon speech. Give the man credit where credit is due. He was comparing the greatest public service, the military to what a person can do himself, in a smaller way.
That is spin Walter. I have no trouble with his speech at all. Septermber 11 is in no way to be commemorated as a day of public service however. It is what it is. Murder day, that is what it is.
| 628 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:01:00pm |
| 629 |
pat Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:01:12pm |
re: #541 placeholder
Yes. that is I why excluded the cold blooded. The sharks (at least those tested) ability appears unparalleled. They are idiots, but can process the info very well. They cannot be trained.
| 630 |
solomonpanting Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:02:18pm |
| 631 |
BignJames Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:02:23pm |
re: #629 pat
Yes. that is I why excluded the cold blooded. The sharks (at least those tested) ability appears unparalleled. They are idiots, but can process the info very well. They cannot be trained.
Know any lawyers?
| 632 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:02:33pm |
re: #624 Jimmah
The Daily Mail is one of the least reputable of the tabloids (not exactly a stellar category to begin with) in the UK in terms of factual accuracy in reporting. Not saying the story is necessarily false, but I'd look for confirmation elsewhere.
Quoted for TRUTH!
Can't remember the nicknames for the daily mail now...
| 633 |
BignJames Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:03:47pm |
| 634 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:05:23pm |
re: #624 Jimmah
The Daily Mail is one of the least reputable of the tabloids (not exactly a stellar category to begin with) in the UK in terms of factual accuracy in reporting. Not saying the story is necessarily false, but I'd look for confirmation elsewhere.
Yea, but they do hit it sometimes and in this case, Pat is right.
| 635 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:05:24pm |
re: #620 marjoriemoon
This healthcare plan isn't going to come out of taxes, so what's your issue?
Where's it going to come from?
| 636 |
Aye Pod Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:05:40pm |
re: #632 iceweasel
Quoted for TRUTH!
Can't remember the nicknames for the daily mail now...
My suggestion - "The Blue-Rinse Bugle"
| 637 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:05:50pm |
re: #625 austin_blue
I don't like it either. Stirs up the crazies on both sides. There has *got* to be a better way. I'd vote for beer summits!
I have to answer using Lady Thatcher's famous turn of phrase: "There is no alternative." Getting your ideas into law requires public support, as it should. Generating that support requires catching peoples interest and firing their passion for your position. Moderation is not a cry that fills the town hall meeting.
Full Disclosure: That last line is derived from a similar line in Robert Bork's Slouching Towards Gomorrah.
| 638 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:06:19pm |
re: #611 freetoken
I think these medications are far too expensive, and like I say, I understand R&D. I don't think lowering the cost of meds is on the table for healthcare reform and that's a pity in my book.
You make a lot of good points. Ridding the world of disease or at least being able to screen for it in advance is a good thing. Everyone would rather die of old age than suffer, of course. I don't know all these answers, but I'm glad that at least the country is serious at looking at these reforms, for the first time. At 2a here, that's about all I can give you presently (I'm starting to fade lol).
| 639 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:06:58pm |
re: #634 marjoriemoon
Yea, but they do hit it sometimes and in this case, Pat is right.
I think! I remember reading about that elsewhere.
| 640 |
Dan G. Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:07:55pm |
re: #638 marjoriemoon
I appreciate your civil disagreement, good night.
| 641 |
Randall Gross Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:07:55pm |
Still finding zero reports on Will Smith, I'm going to assume some yo yo heard the report on Skip Miller's death, who produced Will Smith's songs and got it mixed up.
| 642 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:09:07pm |
re: #627 The Shadow Do
Septermber 11 is in no way to be commemorated as a day of public service however.
Who are you to make such a pronouncement?
Plenty of people who lost family members that day think that public service is a perfect way to commemorate that day. Especially the lives lost of people who were serving the public that day.
BTW, the actual proposal is that it be a Day of Service and Remembrance, of course. I fail to see why anyone would object to this. It's a good thing. And we don't have to declare 9/11 a day of perpetual hate and rage to mourn our losses and condemn what happened.
| 643 |
pat Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:09:42pm |
It is not that I am not compassionate. I would trust people before a government. Watching Oregon send "suicide" letters to those who appeal State medical care gives me the creeps.
And i know that when you destroy the economics of medicine, you will destroy the incentive to make a better scanner, a new instrument or procedure, a ...young doctor. We will become Cuba.
| 644 |
Dan G. Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:10:34pm |
re: #642 iceweasel
What exactly is meant by a day of service?
| 645 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:10:59pm |
re: #635 TheMatrix31
Where's it going to come from?
Actually I don't know! I'm having a hard time getting a grip on all of it myself, but I don't think taxing is a source. We will pay for it monthly as we do now I'm assuming.
| 646 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:11:18pm |
| 647 |
pat Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:11:42pm |
Nite all. My heart friendly fish dinner is ready. And in case i have a back-up pork chop and a bad boy run tomorrow.
| 648 |
The Shadow Do Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:11:52pm |
re: #642 iceweasel
Who are you to make such a pronouncement?
Plenty of people who lost family members that day think that public service is a perfect way to commemorate that day. Especially the lives lost of people who were serving the public that day.
BTW, the actual proposal is that it be a Day of Service and Remembrance, of course. I fail to see why anyone would object to this. It's a good thing. And we don't have to declare 9/11 a day of perpetual hate and rage to mourn our losses and condemn what happened.
Unbelievable, thousands murdered and some would turn this into a fuzzy bunny moment.
I'm out.
| 649 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:12:47pm |
re: #626 Dan G.
That is does currently have the role doesn't answer the question whether it should. People murder other people all the time, does that close the ethical question also? When slavery was legal, did that close the ethical question of whether slavery was appropriate?
Finally, and back in the scope of what has been proposed so far, how does the presence of public funds taken by tax and redistributed to other compare with legislation aimed at changing how private enterprises are allowed to do business and that is currently slated to force individuals to purchase a product that they don't necessarily want or need?
My God, man are you serious? Do you think that people over 65, wounded vets and active duty military are insurable by private companies?
As to second bit, everyone needs health insurance whether they want it or not. When you get T-boned by a drunk driver and incur costs of several million dollars over the course of the rest of your severely debilitated life, who the hell do you think pays for it if you don't have insurance? The rest of us do through Medicaid. This is serious shit!
| 650 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:12:48pm |
re: #647 pat
Nite all. My heart friendly fish dinner is ready. And in case i have a back-up pork chop and a bad boy run tomorrow.
Nite, Pat!
| 651 |
What, me worry? Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:13:44pm |
I have to go too. Nice chatting with ya'll.
| 652 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:15:18pm |
re: #648 The Shadow Do
Unbelievable, thousands murdered and some would turn this into a fuzzy bunny moment.
I'm out.
Yeah. Because the best way to prove we're not like those murdering freaks would be to riot in the streets while chanting Death to Islamic Extremists or Death to Al-Quaeda. Anything less is 'fuzzy bunny'.
Idiot.
| 653 |
Aye Pod Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:16:42pm |
re: #648 The Shadow Do
Unbelievable, thousands murdered and some would turn this into a fuzzy bunny moment.
I'm out.
Fuzzy bunny moment? WTF? I find it unbelievable that anyone would make such a stupid, shitty comment.
| 654 |
Opilio Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:17:50pm |
re: #623 austin_blue
Hey guys! I think Opilio is just here to get people shouting at each other! No real substance, just dig dig dig.
Yup. I just heckle from the cheap seats. Every village needs an idiot.
Now I shall go away before you taunt me a second time.
| 655 |
Syrah Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:17:56pm |
Barack Obama: Call to Service in Colorado Springs, CO
| 656 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:19:11pm |
| 657 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:19:41pm |
re: #644 Dan G.
What exactly is meant by a day of service?
All kinds of things that everyone should support:
Across the country today, tens of thousands of Americans are honoring the memory of the victims and heroes of 9/11 by engaging in service in their communities. The idea of making 9/11 a day of service and remembrance started with 9/11 family members seven years ago, and this year was enacted into legislation. Projects are taking place in all 50 states, and many are focused on supporting veterans, soldiers, and first responders.
Interview and more at link:
Projects are taking place in every state -- here are a few examples -- In Boston, hundreds of volunteers will fill care packages and write letters to military personnel serving overseas. Volunteers in New Hampshire will collect and bag 7,000 dental supply kits for Manchester school children. More than 9,000 volunteers are expected to turn out today for projects in Seattle including habitat restoration and neighborhood cleanups and renovating a child care center.
Of course, some will persist in seeing this as 'fuzzy bunny' stufff, and tell those surviving family members of the dead on 9-11 that they don't understand the true meaning of 9-11.
| 658 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:20:57pm |
re: #642 iceweasel
Respectfully, there are MANY other days, that can be days of service, and NOT conflict with the memorial of 9-11. I think that not conflicting is more important.
| 659 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:21:38pm |
re: #653 Jimmah
Fuzzy bunny moment? WTF? I find it unbelievable that anyone would make such a stupid, shitty comment.
Indeed. Another patriot, no doubt. Idiot was too kind a word for that comment.
| 661 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:23:09pm |
re: #652 iceweasel
Yeah. Because the best way to prove we're not like those murdering freaks would be to riot in the streets while chanting Death to Islamic Extremists or Death to Al-Quaeda. Anything less is 'fuzzy bunny'.
Idiot.
We don't need to riot. But anger needs an important part of our remembrance. It is important to hate the vile ideology that perpetrated 9/11 and work to see it destroyed. This does not and should not extend to hating entire classes of people, however.
| 662 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:24:07pm |
re: #660 Jimmah
see #657
Ah, late night on the penultimate thread...the Liberal Hour. How are you all doing tonight?
We got rain today!
| 663 |
charlesincharge Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:24:40pm |
re: #608 marjoriemoon
Well you have your spin, I have mine.
Some critics charged Clinton with abandoning his party or trying to strengthen his political position in a cynical bid to be re-elected (he signed the bill less than three months before the presidential election of 1996)
Kinda sums it up. Even the Dems who only see what they want to see and Hope against all hope for in- experienced "unknowns" saw this one straight.
| 664 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:24:51pm |
re: #658 Floral Giraffe
Respectfully, there are MANY other days, that can be days of service, and NOT conflict with the memorial of 9-11. I think that not conflicting is more important.
The family members of 9-11 victims don't see a conflict. In fact they think it's the perfect way to commemorate the dead and measure exactly how far we as a nation and a people are from the murderous freaks who killed them.
If they don't feel it's a conflict, that's good enough for me. I can't see a conflict, myself.
| 665 |
Aye Pod Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:24:54pm |
re: #659 iceweasel
Indeed. Another patriot, no doubt. Idiot was too kind a word for that comment.
Totally. And the real reason for this bizarre objection gaining currency in certain circles is clear to me:
and this year was enacted into legislation
It's an Obama thing!
| 666 |
Reginald Perrin Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:26:30pm |
The deranged intellectual midgets are upset with you guys, it appears that they are having difficulties understanding what our posts. One of them made the accusation that we're using too many big words here.
All of a sudden over at the stalker chat room that chuckie runs they are ignoring us, and using big words about things I do not understand.
Maybe we ought to dumb it down so the neanderthals at the deuce will be able to understand.
My gut is hurting from laughing so hard.
The name of the poster is being withheld to protect the stupid, but if you know the name of the marsupial that plays dead to protect itself, you'll know whom I'm talking about.
| 667 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:28:36pm |
re: #661 Dark_Falcon
We don't need to riot. But anger needs an important part of our remembrance. It is important to hate the vile ideology that perpetrated 9/11 and work to see it destroyed. This does not and should not extend to hating entire classes of people, however.
DF. I'll agree and disagree. Our hate for the vile acts and its twisted ideology should be kept close to our hearts all year 'round. But today, I paused at every moment a plane hit and remembered the people who were slaughtered, their families and their friends. I can hate the killers for the other 364. Today was for the victims- all of the victims.
Peace, brother. Fare thee well.
| 668 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:32:34pm |
re: #665 Jimmah
It's an Obama thing!
Exactly, Jimmah-ski.
re: #661 Dark_Falcon
Respectfully disagree, in that I don't need to restrict my hatred of that ideology to one day a year. It's year-round for me.
I fully support the idea of having a national day of service and remembrance as the perfect way to commemorate those we lost, for the reasons I gave. And I would like to remind people that all of Union Square in NYC was spontaneously turned into a giant memorial for peace within 24 hours---and union square in NYC is downtown and was the cutoff point for the subway system immediately afterward. You couldn't get in or out without proof that you lived there. These were the thoughts of the New Yorkers who experienced 9-11 up close and personal-- not war, but peace.
| 669 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:33:02pm |
re: #667 austin_blue
DF. I'll agree and disagree. Our hate for the vile acts and its twisted ideology should be kept close to our hearts all year 'round. But today, I paused at every moment a plane hit and remembered the people who were slaughtered, their families and their friends. I can hate the killers for the other 364. Today was for the victims- all of the victims.
Peace, brother. Fare thee well.
Fair enough, Austin. Both you and I will continue to work towards a day when we shall have peace again.
| 670 |
Dan G. Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:33:46pm |
re: #649 austin_blue
My God, man are you serious? Do you think that people over 65, wounded vets and active duty military are insurable by private companies?
I'm dead serious. Nothing in life is guaranteed, the purpose and function of insurance is to hedge against a potential occurrence. You use the term as a synonym for subsidy (i.e. in the context of the elderly, I think the Vet issue is slightly different, more on that later). The chances of the elderly incurring high medical expenses approaches unity, therefore insurance doesn't work. So I have two issues 1) insurance and subsidy are two different things, you use insurance where subsidy is the appropriate term. 2) You presuppose that I am my brothers' keeper, and that such ethics are good; I do not.
The vet issue is different in that the continued care is part of the contract for service (i.e. it is a form of compensation) and is therefore wholly appropriate.
As to second bit, everyone needs health insurance whether they want it or not.
No. Most do, but more importantly, it is an issue of scale. The richer one becomes, the less insurance is needed. This is called being "self insured". Once laws are established forcing the type of insurance one must carry/provide, then this flexibility disappears.
When you get T-boned by a drunk driver and incur costs of several million dollars over the course of the rest of your severely debilitated life, who the hell do you think pays for it if you don't have insurance?
I agree that having a high deductable plan is rational for just such instances, and plans like these are relatively cheap, since the odds of the occurrence are low. Even the ultra-rich should have something like this, but no one should be forced to.
The rest of us do through Medicaid. This is serious shit!
THAT is a different problem altogether, that leads to this problem we are currently discussing (i.e. force people to have insurance so that we can maintain a subsidy program). I believe that such programs are inappropriate, it is a moral issue in that one should not be held responsible for the maintanance of another's life, unless he/she chooses to. To clarify a seeming contradiction, rearing children or adopting them is a different case based on the fact that children are not mature (biologically/mentally) human beings, the same would apply after one chose/committed themselves to caring for a mentally debilitated individual. In these cases, one is responsible for either caring for, or finding suitable care.
| 671 |
Aye Pod Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:34:58pm |
re: #662 austin_blue
Ah, late night on the penultimate thread...the Liberal Hour. How are you all doing tonight?
We got rain today!
Hi austin_blue! It was a lovely crisp, sunny, late summer/ early autumn day here in Scotland today.
I think we are in for some more stormy weather on this blog though; everyone's favourite kind of course:
| 672 |
Dan G. Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:36:56pm |
re: #652 iceweasel
That's not the only alternative. An activity that highlight the source of incident (i.e. arguably, complacency in the federal government*) would be appropriate. I don't see why service would be, but if someone wanted to, they should be free to.
*While I was in the Air Force (1997-2001), a Major came to my group and gave a briefing on the current (at the time) danger of terrorism. He was very serious and trying to raise awareness; the brass fucking laughed it off!
| 673 |
Dan G. Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:39:27pm |
re: #657 iceweasel
These types of activities seem fine, I just think that something that facilitates passing on any lessons to future generations that could potentially prevent any such occurrences should also be central.
| 674 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:44:01pm |
re: #672 Dan G.
That's not the only alternative. An activity that highlight the source of incident (i.e. arguably, complacency in the federal government*) would be appropriate. I don't see why service would be, but if someone wanted to, they should be free to.
*While I was in the Air Force (1997-2001), a Major came to my group and gave a briefing on the current (at the time) danger of terrorism. He was very serious and trying to raise awareness; the brass fucking laughed it off!
Service is appropriate for the reasons I already gave, but I would also add that it commemorates the lives of all those who lost their own in the service of helping save strangers, for no reason other than that they knew it was the right thing to do and in some cases they'd dedicated their lives to that pupose. Every member of the NYPD, every EMT, every one of the NYFD who ran up those stairs and into those buildings while others were coming out. Everyone who was the emergency co-ordinator for their office or company, who had volunteered to be the one who organised evacuations (they all had them every since the first bombing in 1993).
And every ordinary person who helped others down those stairs, in some cases carrying them. Every ordinary person who could have saved himself or herself, but lost their own life because they turned back, stopped, stayed to help others escape. In some cases going back in.
Those are the actions that define us as a people, those acts of ordinary and extraordinary heroism, and that is what we commemorate too in service.
| 675 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:46:02pm |
re: #671 Jimmah
Hi austin_blue! It was a lovely crisp, sunny, late summer/ early autumn day here in Scotland today.
I think we are in for some more stormy weather on this blog though; everyone's favourite kind of course:
[Video]
Are in Edinburgh, Glasgow, or the hustings? My wife and I have gone to the Edinburgh Harp Festival the last three years. Much to be loved about that town. She, of course, needed a new axe, so she bought a Starfish Clarsach, which is presently being constructed up in Ft. William.
| 676 |
Dan G. Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:47:59pm |
re: #674 iceweasel
Not sure I follow that entirely, but I will agree that showing appreciation to EMT/Police/Firemen would be an appropriate action, sort of saying "thanks in advance". But still I don't think that should be central, the central activity should trying to encapsulate prevention.
| 677 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:48:09pm |
re: #673 Dan G.
These types of activities seem fine, I just think that something that facilitates passing on any lessons to future generations that could potentially prevent any such occurrences should also be central.
Agreed. We could also have a National Read the Fucking Memo Day.
That's my required bash of bush for the day. ;)
| 678 |
Dan G. Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:50:28pm |
re: #677 iceweasel
It might even be appropriate to integrate both 9/11 and Pearl Harbor in the lesson, the lesson is essentially the same, "don't take threats lightly, your (i.e. the government's) primary role is to protect" or something to that effect.
| 679 |
Aye Pod Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:50:58pm |
re: #675 austin_blue
Are in Edinburgh, Glasgow, or the hustings? My wife and I have gone to the Edinburgh Harp Festival the last three years. Much to be loved about that town. She, of course, needed a new axe, so she bought a Starfish Clarsach, which is presently being constructed up in Ft. William.
Glasgow area. I love Edinburgh though. Have you been to the World's End pub on the Royal Mile yet? They do a great haggis and mash in there.
PS I'm kind of impressed that your wife needed a new axe :)
| 680 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:52:50pm |
re: #678 Dan G.
It might even be appropriate to integrate both 9/11 and Pearl Harbor in the lesson, the lesson is essentially the same, "don't take threats lightly, your (i.e. the government's) primary role is to protect" or something to that effect.
We have a Pearl Harbor Day, and I think it's appropriate that they be separate anyway, because they also involve very different kinds of threats, and different kinds of wars. The first was a conventional war against a country; the second involved an attack on civilian targets and was not made by a conventional enemy.
| 681 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:52:51pm |
re: #670 Dan G.
THAT is a different problem altogether, that leads to this problem we are currently discussing (i.e. force people to have insurance so that we can maintain a subsidy program). I believe that such programs are inappropriate, it is a moral issue in that one should not be held responsible for the maintanance of another's life, unless he/she chooses to. To clarify a seeming contradiction, rearing children or adopting them is a different case based on the fact that children are not mature (biologically/mentally) human beings, the same would apply after one chose/committed themselves to caring for a mentally debilitated individual. In these cases, one is responsible for either caring for, or finding suitable care.
I think the moral issue is that this country was founded on a social contract that, as the preamble states, is to support "the common good". In this modern time, the common good is to ensure that all citizens of this country are fed, clothed, sheltered, educated, and healthy. That gives them all the opportunity to achieve. You apparently disagree, with this Ayn Rand guff. The Virtue of Selfishness is at direct odds with the Founder's philosophy.
| 682 |
The Left Fri, Sep 11, 2009 11:59:42pm |
re: #681 austin_blue
You apparently disagree, with this Ayn Rand guff. The Virtue of Selfishness is at direct odds with the Founder's philosophy.
The Virtue of Selfishness is crap calculated to promote an 'ethic' which is overwhelmingly appealing to the adolescent and the the morally inferior: it pretends to find a a deep philosophical justification for taking what you want when you want from whoever you want, and explains to you that it's really altruism that's bad and that true strength and virtue consists in doing whatever the fuck you want whenever you want.
It's a codification of all our basest desires and attempts to justify them.
BTW, I misread 'philosophy' above when I read your comment as 'pornography'. And I'm not even drunk. How are you, austin?
| 683 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:01:06am |
re: #679 Jimmah
Glasgow area. I love Edinburgh though. Have you been to the World's End pub on the Royal Mile yet? They do a great haggis and mash in there.
PS I'm kind of impressed that your wife needed a new axe :)
No. I'll check it out next year. I climbed Arthur's Seat last spring, though (huff and puff) and we saw the Queen's yacht down at the harbor.
Glasgow is a rough town! She Who Must Be Obeyed took three one-week courses in trad music in 2007, (Ayreshire, the Trossachs, and Skye) and I flew into Glasgow for the Skye week. We took the train from Glasgow to Malaig.
Oh my God! What a glorious bit of the world! We actually passed the steam train on the way back from Skye used as The Hogwarts Express. It was so frickin' cool...
| 684 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:03:20am |
re: #681 austin_blue
Except that "the common good" (actually, "general Welfare") means that which benefits all (i.e. common/general meaning that which is shared by all entities in a population); taking from some to give to others, contradicts that. If the welfare that you state was in sync with the Founder's philosophy, then only now, in this century are such grand scale forced charities being erected?
| 685 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:04:27am |
re: #682 iceweasel
The Virtue of Selfishness is crap calculated to promote an 'ethic' which is overwhelmingly appealing to the adolescent and the the morally inferior: it pretends to find a a deep philosophical justification for taking what you want when you want from whoever you want, and explains to you that it's really altruism that's bad and that true strength and virtue consists in doing whatever the fuck you want whenever you want.
It's a codification of all our basest desires and attempts to justify them.
BTW, I misread 'philosophy' above when I read your comment as 'pornography'. And I'm not even drunk. How are you, austin?
Rain is falling from the sky. The little town of Salado north of us got 13" today. Typical Texas. We end droughts with massive flooding. So I am finer than frog hair this evening.
And you?
| 686 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:05:14am |
re: #681 austin_blue
I think the moral issue is that this country was founded on a social contract that, as the preamble states, is to support "the common good". In this modern time, the common good is to ensure that all citizens of this country are fed, clothed, sheltered, educated, and healthy. That gives them all the opportunity to achieve. You apparently disagree, with this Ayn Rand guff. The Virtue of Selfishness is at direct odds with the Founder's philosophy.
Indeed it is, and their writings bear that out. Many of the founders were Deists, but the Christian ideal of serving one's fellow man remained important to them. They were right, of course, as was William F. Buckley when he steered conservatives away from Rand and her inhumane Objectivism. Sometimes I find myself wanting to shout as Wordsworth wanted to shout.
"Buckley, thou shouldst be living at this Hour! America has need of thee!" Alas, he is gone, and people of his stature are sorely needed in conservatism is to right itself.
| 687 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:09:09am |
re: #682 iceweasel
The Virtue of Selfishness is crap calculated to promote an 'ethic' which is overwhelmingly appealing to the adolescent and the the morally inferior: it pretends to find a a deep philosophical justification for taking what you want when you want from whoever you want, and explains to you that it's really altruism that's bad and that true strength and virtue consists in doing whatever the fuck you want whenever you want.[...]
That is an outright lie! The ethics of rational self interest, as stated in "The Virtue of Selfishness" does not contain a single sentence that supports that allegation. Have you read it? All interactions between individuals that occur via volitional trade are what is considered the only moral means of dealing with other individuals; forcibly taking "whatever the fuck you want whenever you want" is precisely what altruists do (welfare, Medicaid, etc...). Nice projection and nice display of a complete lack of integrity (speaking of morally inferior) you obviously haven't read the book.
| 688 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:10:08am |
re: #684 Dan G.
Except that "the common good" (actually, "general Welfare") means that which benefits all (i.e. common/general meaning that which is shared by all entities in a population); taking from some to give to others, contradicts that. If the welfare that you state was in sync with the Founder's philosophy, then only now, in this century are such grand scale forced charities being erected?
Charities? How about "investments"? As for taking from some to give to others, how about that 70% marginal tax rate in 1976?
| 689 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:12:35am |
re: #688 austin_blue
Huh? Investments, WTF are you talking about? Also, clarify what the marginal tax rate of 1976 has to do with demonstrating that the general Welfare meant wealth distribution back when the Constitution was written (i.e. what's your point)?
| 690 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:14:03am |
re: #686 Dark_Falcon
Indeed it is, and their writings bear that out. Many of the founders were Deists, but the Christian ideal of serving one's fellow man remained important to them. They were right, of course, as was William F. Buckley when he steered conservatives away from Rand and her inhumane Objectivism. Sometimes I find myself wanting to shout as Wordsworth wanted to shout.
"Buckley, thou shouldst be living at this Hour! America has need of thee!" Alas, he is gone, and people of his stature are sorely needed in conservatism is to right itself.
A nod and a deep bow, sir! A love of this country requires an understanding of its roots. It is We The People. I will disagree with Buckley on specific points, but that is cause for discussion, not fisticuffs.
| 691 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:14:32am |
re: #687 Dan G.
Downding for the insult. I don't always agree with iceweasel, but her integrity has been proven to my satisfaction. Frankly, Dan, your remarks about her sound like some of the things I've read on the stalker blog. Cool it.
| 692 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:15:51am |
re: #687 Dan G.
That is an outright lie! The ethics of rational self interest, as stated in "The Virtue of Selfishness" does not contain a single sentence that supports that allegation. Have you read it? All interactions between individuals that occur via volitional trade are what is considered the only moral means of dealing with other individuals; forcibly taking "whatever the fuck you want whenever you want" is precisely what altruists do (welfare, Medicaid, etc...). Nice projection and nice display of a complete lack of integrity (speaking of morally inferior) you obviously haven't read the book.
A hit! A palpable hit! A Paulian exposed!
;-)
| 693 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:23:24am |
re: #692 austin_blue
WRONG! I am not, neither are any other Objectivists I know.
| 694 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:24:42am |
re: #689 Dan G.
Huh? Investments, WTF are you talking about? Also, clarify what the marginal tax rate of 1976 has to do with demonstrating that the general Welfare meant wealth distribution back when the Constitution was written (i.e. what's your point)?
Dude, really, it's not 1785 anymore. You have made your position abundantly clear. And I disagree with most everything you posit. Let's let it lie. You obviously are not here to find common ground.
| 695 |
Aye Pod Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:24:52am |
re: #683 austin_blue
No. I'll check it out next year. I climbed Arthur's Seat last spring, though (huff and puff) and we saw the Queen's yacht down at the harbor.
Glasgow is a rough town! She Who Must Be Obeyed took three one-week courses in trad music in 2007, (Ayreshire, the Trossachs, and Skye) and I flew into Glasgow for the Skye week. We took the train from Glasgow to Malaig.
Oh my God! What a glorious bit of the world! We actually passed the steam train on the way back from Skye used as The Hogwarts Express. It was so frickin' cool...
Hmm...Skye...now there's a thought. Never been there myself but I've heard it's lovely. Might take my girl there for a weekend or so this winter as part of the 'Scottish tour'.
| 696 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:25:19am |
| 697 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:27:36am |
re: #691 Dark_Falcon
She confidently lied about an easily verifiable fact, I called her on it; that is LGF 1.0 type behavior.
"Living in a society, instead of on a desert island, does not relieve a man of the responsiblity of supporting his own life. The only difference is that he supports his life by trading [emph in original] his products and services for the products or services of others. And, in this process of trade, a rational man does not seek or desire any more or anly less than his own effort can earn." Ayn Rand, "The "Conflicts" of Men's Interests" in The Virture of Selfishness p. 60
Reconcile that with her claim.
| 699 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:30:17am |
re: #695 Jimmah
Hmm...Skye...now there's a thought. Never been there myself but I've heard it's lovely. Might take my girl there for a weekend or so this winter as part of the 'Scottish tour'.
I'm a geologist and that island is like being a kid in a candy store. Flow basalts, granitic and gabbro plutons, and 2.4 billion year old meta-sediments...heaven. Portree is a lovely little town with some nice B&Bs. The weather is generally shite, however. If you go, be sure to check out the Dunvegan Castle, home of the Clan McLeod. Lovely.
| 700 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:30:48am |
re: #694 austin_blue
Huh? I'm here for a discussion of principles. You are obviously 1) bailing and 2) supporting the belief that what's moral varies with time.
And you can stop being churlish, I am not, nor ever have been a libertarian, nor a supporter of Ron Paul. Libertarians of all shades put politics first, no philosophy. Everyone of them I've meet is a boot licker waiting for the right tyrant. Definitely not my crowd.
| 701 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:33:33am |
re: #700 Dan G.
Huh? I'm here for a discussion of principles. You are obviously 1) bailing and 2) supporting the belief that what's moral varies with time.
And you can stop being churlish, I am not, nor ever have been a libertarian, nor a supporter of Ron Paul. Libertarians of all shades put politics first, no philosophy. Everyone of them I've meet is a boot licker waiting for the right tyrant. Definitely not my crowd.
You don't think that's what moral varies with time? How old are you? Think back on 1860 and try to maintain that position.
| 702 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:36:55am |
re: #697 Dan G.
She confidently lied about an easily verifiable fact, I called her on it; that is LGF 1.0 type behavior.
"Living in a society, instead of on a desert island, does not relieve a man of the responsiblity of supporting his own life. The only difference is that he supports his life by trading [emph in original] his products and services for the products or services of others. And, in this process of trade, a rational man does not seek or desire any more or anly less than his own effort can earn." Ayn Rand, "The "Conflicts" of Men's Interests" in The Virture of Selfishness p. 60
Reconcile that with her claim.
She might well have misinterpreted Rand's words, but her argument was addressed to the philosophy, while your was at least partially addressed to her. That was what prompted the downding. As for that philosophy, it is its absence of charity and higher purpose that truly turns me off. People do not exsist only for themselves. I firmly believe that God calls us to do greater thing and to work to uplift others.
| 703 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:37:52am |
re: #701 austin_blue
Explain, seriously. I'm talking about the actions that one should take; not what was popularly considered moral. Just because many thought something was moral, didn't make it so; this is the basis of the difference between subjectivism and objectivism. Whereas subjectivism believes that moral prinicples are a matter of choice of individuals, objectivism's claim is that moral principles arise from the nature of the object (i.e. the human). Human's haven't changed, our technology has, but we are the same now as then.
| 704 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:43:42am |
re: #702 Dark_Falcon
Seriously... reading this you think it could have been misconstrued to what ice stated!?
Look, I've been here a while and have demonstrated that I respect others' rights to have their own opinion and I don't belittle them or berate them for it. You might not agree with the philosophy, but seriously, are you going to abstain from judgment with the evidence right in front of you and state that her claim was just a misunderstanding!? What she did was the same thing I get on DI'ers and any other liar for, misrepresentation and being disingenuous. This very behaivor is the basis of LGF (calling bullshit on the DI'er's, on Dan Rather, on fauxtography, etc...). We (ice, austin, and I) were discussing the principles of the health care issue; ice decided to throw a red herring and then completely misrepresent me via misrepresenting my philosophy. That's bullshit, and I'll call it every time I see it.
| 705 |
The Left Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:44:15am |
re: #697 Dan G.
She confidently lied about an easily verifiable fact, I called her on it; that is LGF 1.0 type behavior.
"Living in a society, instead of on a desert island, does not relieve a man of the responsiblity of supporting his own life. The only difference is that he supports his life by trading [emph in original] his products and services for the products or services of others. And, in this process of trade, a rational man does not seek or desire any more or anly less than his own effort can earn." Ayn Rand, "The "Conflicts" of Men's Interests" in The Virture of Selfishness p. 60
Reconcile that with her claim.
Dan, I did not 'lie'; I expressed my (extremely unfavourable) opinion of Ayn Rand, and in particular her loathsome and juvenile excuse for an 'ethical theory'. Yes, I have read the Virtue of Selfishness. I have also read many other things by her. I am quite familiar with Objectivism. I suspect you have read less of Rand than I have.
You have not read widely enough, or deeply enough, in Rand if you think she is not making an argument against altruism. Take a closer look at the paragraph you quoted-- even it doesn't support your claim. It explicitly calls on people to be self-sufficient; a corollary to that claim is that it is wrong to not be self-sufficient, and Rand most certainly does spin that, in that book and elsewhere, into the idea that it is wrong to encourage others not to be self-sufficient-- that is, to help them.
So not only have you failed to understand Rand, you have not even understood the very paragraph you just cited.
I award you the grade of F for FAIL.
| 706 |
The Left Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:45:03am |
re: #702 Dark_Falcon
She might well have misinterpreted Rand's words, but her argument was addressed to the philosophy, while your was at least partially addressed to her. That was what prompted the downding. As for that philosophy, it is its absence of charity and higher purpose that truly turns me off. People do not exsist only for themselves. I firmly believe that God calls us to do greater thing and to work to uplift others.
Agreed 100% DF.
I think it's morally bankrupt.
| 707 |
The Left Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:49:33am |
re: #704 Dan G.
We (ice, austin, and I) were discussing the principles of the health care issue; ice decided to throw a red herring and then completely misrepresent me via misrepresenting my philosophy. That's bullshit, and I'll call it every time I see it.
Dan, I have not even been reading all your posts on the health care debate, and I had no intention of misrepresenting 'you' or your philosophy. My comment was solely about Rand-- not directed at you.
The above one, however, was directed at you.
| 708 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:56:58am |
re: #705 iceweasel
Dan, I did not 'lie'; I expressed my (extremely unfavourable) opinion of Ayn Rand, and in particular her loathsome and juvenile excuse for an 'ethical theory'. Yes, I have read the Virtue of Selfishness. I have also read many other things by her. I am quite familiar with Objectivism.
Your claim lies in direct contradiction with the central tenent of Objectivist ethics; you are lying.
You previously stated:
it pretends to find a a deep philosophical justification for taking what you want when you want from whoever you want,
Reconcile "taking what you want" with "trading".
I suspect you have read less of Rand than I have.
Doubt it. And what you've read, you've obviously not comprehended. [Ad homminem #01]
You have not read widely enough, or deeply enough, in Rand if you think she is not making an argument against altruism.
She indeed is making an argument against altruism, which means living for others. I never stated that she was arguing for it. [Strawman #01]
Take a closer look at the paragraph you quoted-- even it doesn't support your claim. It explicitly calls on people to be self-sufficient; a corollary to that claim is that it is wrong to not be self-sufficient, and Rand most certainly does spin that, in that book and elsewhere, into the idea that it is wrong to encourage others not to be self-sufficient-- that is, to help them.Self sufficiency means that ones self is the primary care taker of oneself. It doesn't lead to the conclusion that it is wrong to accept charity; just that it is wrong to go into life expecting that others will support you.
"My views on charity are very simple. I do not consider it a major virtue and, above all, I do not consider it a moral duty. There is nothing wrong in helping other people, if and when they are worthy of the help and you can afford to help them. I regard charity as a marginal issue. What I am fighting is the idea that charity is a moral duty and a primary virtue."
[From “Playboy’s 1964 interview with Ayn Rand”]
So not only have you failed to understand Rand, you have not even understood the very paragraph you just cited.Au contraire, it is worded quite clearly, you've added a twist that wasn't there, effectively... [Strawman #02, directed at Ayn Rand]
I award you the grade of F for FAIL.
[churlish ad homminem #02]
Nice try, you can drop the patronising tone anytime you like; you are trapped in a lie.
| 709 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:01:40am |
re: #707 iceweasel
Sorry, it was austin that sprung it; you merely stepped in to add to it. Just the same, you are misrepresenting the philosophy and trying very juvenile tactics to squirm your way out of it. If you disagree, say so and make your points, drop the bullshit.
I'm not here to "convert" you, just as my activities here on the pro-evolution threads wasn't to "convert" any of those who disagree with it. I'm just here to make sure you know what, in fact, you are arguing against. Perhaps you still don't agree with objectivism, fine; but don't spread bullshit lies.
| 710 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:02:09am |
re: #704 Dan G.
Dan, here is the sequence where Ayn Rand came up:
re: #670 Dan G.
THAT is a different problem altogether, that leads to this problem we are currently discussing (i.e. force people to have insurance so that we can maintain a subsidy program). I believe that such programs are inappropriate, it is a moral issue in that one should not be held responsible for the maintanance of another's life, unless he/she chooses to. To clarify a seeming contradiction, rearing children or adopting them is a different case based on the fact that children are not mature (biologically/mentally) human beings, the same would apply after one chose/committed themselves to caring for a mentally debilitated individual. In these cases, one is responsible for either caring for, or finding suitable care.
re: #681 austin_blue
I think the moral issue is that this country was founded on a social contract that, as the preamble states, is to support "the common good". In this modern time, the common good is to ensure that all citizens of this country are fed, clothed, sheltered, educated, and healthy. That gives them all the opportunity to achieve. You apparently disagree, with this Ayn Rand guff. The Virtue of Selfishness is at direct odds with the Founder's philosophy.
re: #682 iceweasel
The Virtue of Selfishness is crap calculated to promote an 'ethic' which is overwhelmingly appealing to the adolescent and the the morally inferior: it pretends to find a a deep philosophical justification for taking what you want when you want from whoever you want, and explains to you that it's really altruism that's bad and that true strength and virtue consists in doing whatever the fuck you want whenever you want.
It's a codification of all our basest desires and attempts to justify them.
BTW, I misread 'philosophy' above when I read your comment as 'pornography'. And I'm not even drunk. How are you, austin?
re: #687 Dan G.
That is an outright lie! The ethics of rational self interest, as stated in "The Virtue of Selfishness" does not contain a single sentence that supports that allegation. Have you read it? All interactions between individuals that occur via volitional trade are what is considered the only moral means of dealing with other individuals; forcibly taking "whatever the fuck you want whenever you want" is precisely what altruists do (welfare, Medicaid, etc...). Nice projection and nice display of a complete lack of integrity (speaking of morally inferior) you obviously haven't read the book.
So there we have it. While it was austin who first brought up Rand and iceweasel who went on to criticize Rand's ideas, you were the one who hurled an personal insult. You would have done better to simply argue things on the merits of the ideas in question or simply state that you were reasoning from different points than Rand did. Instead, you got personal, and that was when I got involved.
| 712 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:04:02am |
re: #711 Dan G.
Sorry for hosing the blockquote tags, PIMF.
It can be hard to get those right. We still got your point clearly.
| 713 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:08:58am |
re: #710 Dark_Falcon
Austin triggered it, noted above...
As for making it personal, she lied. She lied with confidence. That is an appropriate time make it personal since it was wrong for her to do it. I make things like this personal all the time, but only in the context of the error. When DI'ers come in here circulating the same old debunked crap, when they know for a fact that it is crap, it is appropriate to call into question/accuse them of being insincere, lying, disingenuous, frauds. The issue wasn't a disagreement of opinion; that was what was happening in the discussion with austin. I disagreed with her, and only the topics were discussed. Ice started a new topic, grounded in an easily outed lie/distortion, and it is appropriate to clarify that she was wrong; her tone set mine.
| 714 |
The Left Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:10:57am |
re: #708 Dan G.
No, Dan, I am not 'trapped in a lie', nor am I even incorrect in my assessment of Rand. She made many contradictory statements, as many philosophers do over the course of a body of work-- although I hesitate to dignify Rand with the name of 'philosopher'. If you read her body of work, it is very clear that in her work she is advocating against altruism-- as opposed to pulling a quote from a Playboy interview.
The fact of the matter is, there is what Rand wrote, and then there is the fanboi cult of Rand calling itself Objectivism, which has gone through myriad permutations and does not always reflect what she actually wrote.
The fanboi cult reads playboy interviews and websites and cherrypicks out quotes from here and there, and takes away what it wants to. Just like you did, in failing to understand that the paragraph you quoted to me actually proved my point, and not your own.
Again, my comments were never directed at you, or even Objectivism, but at the works of Ayn Rand. You have insisted on making it about you, and you were the one who engaged in ad hominem attacks on me.
At this point I see no need for further discussion, since you have miserably failed even at reading comprehension, let alone logic, and continue to resort to name calling. And you will shriek that this was 'namecalling', and you might even spell ad hominem correctly this time, but sadly, it is only a statement of fact.
| 715 |
The Left Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:14:16am |
re: #713 Dan G.
No. You freaked out and inferred all kinds of things I did not say because someone harmed your precious idol. Then you decided to have a complete meltdown and namecall.
| 716 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:14:32am |
re: #713 Dan G.
Austin triggered it, noted above...
As for making it personal, she lied. She lied with confidence. That is an appropriate time make it personal since it was wrong for her to do it. I make things like this personal all the time, but only in the context of the error. When DI'ers come in here circulating the same old debunked crap, when they know for a fact that it is crap, it is appropriate to call into question/accuse them of being insincere, lying, disingenuous, frauds. The issue wasn't a disagreement of opinion; that was what was happening in the discussion with austin. I disagreed with her, and only the topics were discussed. Ice started a new topic, grounded in an easily outed lie/distortion, and it is appropriate to clarify that she was wrong; her tone set mine.
You jumped in and called her a liar without asking for clarification first. And I'm also of the opinion that throwing out insults like you is not something to be done in an argument. Iceweasel attacked Ayn Rand, and you replied by attacking iceweasel.
| 717 |
Aye Pod Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:16:08am |
re: #713 Dan G.
Austin triggered it, noted above...
As for making it personal, she lied. She lied with confidence. That is an appropriate time make it personal since it was wrong for her to do it. I make things like this personal all the time, but only in the context of the error. When DI'ers come in here circulating the same old debunked crap, when they know for a fact that it is crap, it is appropriate to call into question/accuse them of being insincere, lying, disingenuous, frauds. The issue wasn't a disagreement of opinion; that was what was happening in the discussion with austin. I disagreed with her, and only the topics were discussed. Ice started a new topic, grounded in an easily outed lie/distortion, and it is appropriate to clarify that she was wrong; her tone set mine.
I understand that you are something of a fan of Ayn Rands, and that you disagree with iceweasel's read of her 'philosophy', but to call her a liar on the strength of that is bizarre, and destroys any shred of credibility you might have had in this argument. Pathetic.
| 718 |
The Left Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:20:21am |
re: #717 Jimmah
I understand that you are something of a fan of Ayn Rands, and that you disagree with iceweasel's read of her 'philosophy', but to call her a liar on the strength of that is bizarre, and destroys any shred of credibility you might have had in this argument. Pathetic.
The truly pathetic thing here is that I obviously do know quite a bit about Rand, and had Dan not had a meltdown we could even have had a good discussion about it and how Objectivism differs, etc. There was no need to have a freakout. I've got a close friend who is an Objectivist and has a PhD in philosophy. That's one reason why I know this stuff.
But some people consider attacks on their ideas to be attacks on them as people, and they're incapable of rational and objective (hee) discussion about them.
| 719 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:22:56am |
re: #714 iceweasel
No, Dan, I am not 'trapped in a lie', nor am I even incorrect in my assessment of Rand. She made many contradictory statements, as many philosophers do over the course of a body of work [...]
Like?
If you read her body of work, it is very clear that in her work she is advocating against altruism-- as opposed to pulling a quote from a Playboy interview.
I know she is advocating against altruism, that has been confirmed and she explicitly states that she is against it. What you are doing is claiming that any action done towards others is altruism. She clearly defines it differently, namely, that altruism is the ethical principle that the concerns of others trump the concerns of the individual and as such, an individual should make decisions based on how it benefits others, not him/herself. On the contrary, objectivism holds that the conceptual faculty/decision making faculty is a biological function and as such, its purpose is to support the organism's life (as a primary). Note, that making oneself one's primary concern does not contradict being charitable or receiving charity.
The fact of the matter is, there is what Rand wrote, and then there is the fanboi cult of Rand calling itself Objectivism, which has gone through myriad permutations and does not always reflect what she actually wrote.
I've based my understanding on objectivism by reading what she wrote; drop the fucking ad hommenims already.
The fanboi cult reads playboy interviews and websites and cherrypicks out quotes from here and there, and takes away what it wants to. Just like you did, in failing to understand that the paragraph you quoted to me actually proved my point, and not your own.
Again, my comments were never directed at you, or even Objectivism, but at the works of Ayn Rand. You have insisted on making it about you, and you were the one who engaged in ad hominem attacks on me.
At this point I see no need for further discussion, since you have miserably failed even at reading comprehension, let alone logic, and continue to resort to name calling. And you will shriek that this was 'namecalling', and you might even spell ad hominem correctly this time, but sadly, it is only a statement of fact.
You still haven't addressed the central claim. You cannot reconcile your claim that objectivist ethics is based on stealing what you want from others with the fact that it is based on trading, volitionally, with others.
I never said name calling... straw man. Really, you think you get points for pointing out spelling errors when you repeatedly dodge the center of this argument? Your entire post is a red herring, meant to draw attention away from the fact that you are dead wrong in what you've said. Face it like an adult and own up to it. Or try to somehow reconcile it... it won't work, because your claim is in directly opposition to the facts.
| 720 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:23:34am |
re: #715 iceweasel
Ahem, you made a counterfactual statement. I called you on it, if the shoe fits...
| 721 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:25:05am |
re: #717 Jimmah
Really? Her claim that the ethics is based on theft, when the provided evidence explicitly states trade, and the fact that she has done nothing to validate her previous claim?
| 722 |
The Left Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:25:50am |
re: #716 Dark_Falcon
You jumped in and called her a liar without asking for clarification first. And I'm also of the opinion that throwing out insults like you is not something to be done in an argument. Iceweasel attacked Ayn Rand, and you replied by attacking iceweasel.
Cheers DF and thanks for having my back on this one.
This all could have been avoided if we could give the benefit of the doubt to our ideological opponents, that they're acting in good faith and may be mistaken, but are not deliberately lying. Had Dan opened up by saying "That is a lie fostered by misunderstandings of ayn rand's real work' or some such, rather than just indicting me as a liar (rather than one who is mistaken, and unknowingly propagating a lie), I'd have had no problem asking him how I was mistaken and where. Could have been a good discussion, too.
| 723 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:25:58am |
re: #718 iceweasel
Again, reconcile theft with trade without the bullshit. Very easy.
| 724 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:27:15am |
I'm glad to have participated in this discussion, but the hour has grown too early for me to continue. I need at least 4 hours of sleep and must no get them. Good Night, all. Play nice.
| 725 |
The Left Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:30:14am |
re: #721 Dan G.
Really? Her claim that the ethics is based on theft, when the provided evidence explicitly states trade, and the fact that she has done nothing to validate her previous claim?
Dan, you are clearly taking the hyperbolic nature of my initial characterisation and freaking out. You're wrong about Rand. You're wrong to say I claimed her ethics is based on theft. It's based, in part, on semi-Neitzschean ideas about the strong taking and getting and producing what they want and need, and the weak failing to do so. That is what I meant when I characterised it that way.
You have seriously failed at everything here, reading comprehension, simple civility, and you're only digging your hole deeper-- but that is exactly what I would expect from a Randian fanboi. ;)
I'd say we're done now.
| 726 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:32:09am |
re: #722 iceweasel
You stated it authoritatively. You haven't even come close to owning up to it, instead you've done everything you can to dodge it. Theft is not trading. You could have easily owned up to not being as familiar as you sold yourself as; but instead you continuously questioned my knowledge of the philosophy. You continuously stated that you knew objectivist philosophy better than I do, but somehow got the central tenet of the ethics completely backwards. Then you throw up the straw man that I said Ayn Rand didn't argue against altruism? You can bathe in the sympathy given to you by others, but seriously; you took this discussion off the path of a reasoned argument by misrepresentation and sophomoric dialog.
| 727 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:35:06am |
re: #725 iceweasel
It's based, in part, on semi-Neitzschean ideas about the strong taking and getting and producing what they want and need, and the weak failing to do so. That is what I meant when I characterised it that way.
The evidence contradicts you.
You have seriously failed at everything here, reading comprehension, simple civility, and you're only digging your hole deeper
100% projection, you devolved to patronizing tones and ad homminem's, even in your parting statement.
| 728 |
The Left Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:37:12am |
re: #726 Dan G.
Here is my final word on Rand:
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
h/t Kung Fu Monkey
May I assume the G in Dan G stands for Galt now, and cordially invite you to Go Galt Yourself?
| 729 |
Aye Pod Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:38:28am |
re: #721 Dan G.
Really? Her claim that the ethics is based on theft, when the provided evidence explicitly states trade, and the fact that she has done nothing to validate her previous claim?
Even if you were right on that point, your calling her a liar could only be justified if you knew that she knew differently than she said. But you don't know any such thing - its an assumption you plucked out of the air.
So yes, really, your calling her a liar is bizarre and destroys any credibility you might have had with me in this argument.
| 730 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:40:31am |
re: #728 iceweasel
No, my last name starts with "G". And for someone so civil and knowledgeable, you sure cannot remain focused on the issue at the core of the discussion, but instead, resort fallacies and, now, weak humor.
So, were you innocently propagating a lie, or do you not truly understand objectivism as much as you've let on? You cannot have both.
| 731 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:45:53am |
re: #729 Jimmah
Right. Her tone belied her ignorance (willful or not) of the subject. I could have made that first response more mellow, granted. But are you saying that excuses her fallacy laden, fact dodging, behavior? She didn't defend herself in reply, she dodged the issue and attacked with fallacies and feigned condescension.
| 732 |
Aye Pod Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:48:45am |
re: #730 Dan G.
So, were you innocently propagating a lie, or do you not truly understand objectivism as much as you've let on? You cannot have both.
Interesting - this implicitly acknowleges the fact that you had no basis to simply call iceweasel a liar. Yet you still try to claim that very thing - at least, you havent explicitly taken it back. Are you able to do that now?
| 733 |
The Left Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:49:26am |
re: #730 Dan G.
So, were you innocently propagating a lie, or do you not truly understand objectivism as much as you've let on? You cannot have both.
Lovely. After calling me a liar, and then accusing me of engaging in ad hominem, you accuse me of setting up straw men arguments, and then make one yourself.
Why on earth would you imagine I would have any further discussion with you?
You can have a nice civil discussion with people-- or you can attack them, distort what they say, refuse to understand what they say, FAIL to understand the quotes you hilariously believe are evidence for your point but actually totally undercut it, and then whine when they won't talk to you any more.
I mean this sincerely, Dan: Piss off, wanker.
| 734 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:56:41am |
re: #732 Jimmah
No, the basis was her authoritative tone; I've made that clear.
re: #733 iceweasel
Devoid of substance, par for the course. Where's the fallacy? You said I made one, which was it? Ad hominem or straw man? I have not distorted what you said and you've yet to substantiate any claim you've made; distortion, where?, my apparent lack of knowledge of objectivism (what evidence's this?), nor to how the evidence I've provided undercuts my argument. Just stating these things doesn't make it real. I've isolated your quotes to ensure clarity in what I was saying to you; you've not reciprocated, just a litanny of baseless claims, and childish statements.
| 735 |
Aye Pod Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:59:51am |
re: #731 Dan G.
Right. Her tone belied her ignorance (willful or not) of the subject. I could have made that first response more mellow, granted. But are you saying that excuses her fallacy laden, fact dodging, behavior? She didn't defend herself in reply, she dodged the issue and attacked with fallacies and feigned condescension.
I think she clarified her position for you quite well:
Dan, you are clearly taking the hyperbolic nature of my initial characterisation and freaking out. You're wrong about Rand. You're wrong to say I claimed her ethics is based on theft. It's based, in part, on semi-Neitzschean ideas about the strong taking and getting and producing what they want and need, and the weak failing to do so. That is what I meant when I characterised it that way.
And for the record, on the atheist forum I used to frequent , it was not uncommon to run into self professed Randians who professed what seemed to me to be a form of anarchy in which the sort of thing iceweasel alluded to was to some degree approached. IIRC the term "ethical egotism" used to come up a lot on those discussions. So I can certainly see where iceweasel was coming from.
But unfortunately rather than seek clarification in a civil manner you just started chucking out stupid accusations of 'liar'. You need to seriously rethink your approach to these sort of discussions.
| 736 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:00:42am |
Curious readers are hereby challenged to find:
1) where I whined about someone not talking to me.
2) how my provided evidence undercut my argument.
3) how I've acted uncivilly.
Who in this exchange has behaved like a trapped leftist rat, making things up as he/she goes in order to cover up the fact that he/she got caught in making/propagating a lie?
| 737 |
Aye Pod Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:04:40am |
re: #734 Dan G.
Her 'tone' made her a liar? WTF? Have you lost your mind completely now?
Just admit you had no justification for making that accusation. Or keep digging that hole, of you prefer.
| 738 |
The Left Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:08:32am |
re: #732 Jimmah
Interesting - this implicitly acknowleges the fact that you had no basis to simply call iceweasel a liar. Yet you still try to claim that very thing - at least, you havent explicitly taken it back. Are you able to do that now?
Exactly, Jimmah. It's clear this person is incapable of civil discussion, ever admitting they're wrong or offering even a mild apology for calling names, and consistently either failing to read or misunderstanding the points already made. This captures it quite nicely:
So, were you innocently propagating a lie, or do you not truly understand objectivism as much as you've let on? You cannot have both.
I made a clear distinction at least twice in this thread between Objectivism and what Ayn Rand actually wrote, and stated that there is a difference and my remarks were about Ayn Rand's work. But Randian fanboi here either doesn't read what I've already said, or deliberately mischaracterises it, or is too bloody thick to get it.
Possibly all three.
I think it's time to play some music...
| 739 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:10:38am |
re: #735 Jimmah
I think she clarified her position for you quite well:iceweasel: "Dan, you are clearly taking the hyperbolic nature of my initial characterisation and freaking out. You're wrong about Rand. You're wrong to say I claimed her ethics is based on theft. It's based, in part, on semi-Neitzschean ideas about the strong taking and getting and producing what they want and need, and the weak failing to do so. That is what I meant when I characterised it that way."
This is a lie. From her original post:
[objectivism] pretends to find a a deep philosophical justification for taking what you want when you want from whoever you want[...]
That is the definition of theft. And while the word "ethics" didn't appear; the field in philosophy that deals with justifications for action is... ethics.
And for the record, on the atheist forum I used to frequent , it was not uncommon to run into self professed Randians who professed what seemed to me to be a form of anarchy in which the sort of thing iceweasel alluded to was to some degree approached. IIRC the term "ethical egotism" used to come up a lot on those discussions. So I can certainly see where iceweasel was coming from.
But unfortunately rather than seek clarification in a civil manner you just started chucking out stupid accusations of 'liar'. You need to seriously rethink your approach to these sort of discussions.
I agree that there are many individuals out there like that. Many of them follow Ron Paul, but Rand's writings do not support such claims. If iceweasel stated it the way you did, in that you got your info from forums, that would've been fine and indicated that she possibly could've been misinformed. Instead, she claimed to know the primary literature better than I did, going so far as to infer that I hadn't read what Rand actually wrote. My initially calling her a liar did not in anyway prevent her from clarifying her misrepresentation; instead, she doubled down and has yet to address the central point, she's now even lied about even making the point (as shown above).
| 740 |
The Left Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:13:35am |
re: #736 Dan G.
Curious readers are hereby challenged to find:
1) where I whined about someone not talking to me.
2) how my provided evidence undercut my argument.
3) how I've acted uncivilly.Who in this exchange has behaved like a trapped leftist rat, making things up as he/she goes in order to cover up the fact that he/she got caught in making/propagating a lie?
"trapped leftist rat"? I think DF was right, and your remarks to me are sounding increasingly like the remarks some leave about me, I hear, on the stalker blog.
I like that you complained about my tone being authoritative. Apparently you're butthurt not only because I know more than you about this, but I've wounded your pride by showing it.
Another common characteristic among Randian fanbois.
By the way, 2 and 3 have already been demonstrated to you. I'll be giving you the opportunity to prove 1 wrong in a minute.
| 741 |
The Left Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:14:51am |
re: #737 Jimmah
Her 'tone' made her a liar? WTF? Have you lost your mind completely now?
Just admit you had no justification for making that accusation. Or keep digging that hole, of you prefer.
Women! Know your limits!
Let us depart now, love, onto fresh fields and pastures new...
| 742 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:19:00am |
re: #738 iceweasel
I made a clear distinction at least twice in this thread between Objectivism and what Ayn Rand actually wrote, and stated that there is a difference and my remarks were about Ayn Rand's work. But Randian fanboi here either doesn't read what I've already said, or deliberately mischaracterises it, or is too bloody thick to get it.
Possibly all three.
I think it's time to play some music...
Between Objectivism and what Ayn Rand actually wrote, false dichotomy. You used twisted logic to state that Ayn Rand stated that it was wrong to help people here:
It explicitly calls on people to be self-sufficient; a corollary to that claim is that it is wrong to not be self-sufficient, and Rand most certainly does spin that, in that book and elsewhere, into the idea that it is wrong to encourage others not to be self-sufficient-- that is, to help them.
I provided text from an interview where she clarified that she is against charity being treated as a central/primary moral duty (mandated action for morality); and she clearly stated (and I emphasized) where she clarified that helping someone isn't necessarily wrong. And how do you civilly respond? By just claiming that I'm wrong and that the pasted quote undermines my position (curiously lacking a civil explanation).
And seriously, name calling... projection again.
| 743 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:21:22am |
re: #741 iceweasel
Now I'm a sexist...? All of my comments are directly solely to your behavior, not your gender. Red herring.
So, is taking what ever the hell one wants from whoever the hell one wants theft? Does Ayn Rand's writings, which explicitly state that individuals in society interact via trade, some how support your initial claim?
Be civil, don't dodge it.
| 744 |
Aye Pod Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:21:31am |
re: #736 Dan G.
Curious readers are hereby challenged to find:
1) where I whined about someone not talking to me.
2) how my provided evidence undercut my argument.
3) how I've acted uncivilly.Who in this exchange has behaved like a trapped leftist rat, making things up as he/she goes in order to cover up the fact that he/she got caught in making/propagating a lie?
Repeating the same garbage that you have been completely unable to justify, and now throwing in another stupid and wingnutty ad hom on top. If this is what you have to offer it's no wonder you like the idea of a Randian barter system, because no one would buy that bullshit.
| 746 |
The Left Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:22:26am |
re: #742 Dan G.
I
And seriously, name calling... projection again.
Says the guy who started off the discussion calling me a liar, and just recently called me a 'trapped leftist rat'.
FAIL.
| 747 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:23:41am |
re: #746 iceweasel
I left it up to those reading the posts to choose who was acting that way, are you choosing yourself?
| 748 |
Dan G. Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:24:21am |
re: #746 iceweasel
Not addressing the central theme, dodging again. FAIL.
| 749 |
Aye Pod Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:30:03am |
re: #745 Dan G.
What haven't I been able to justify?
Sorry, but you are now officially a thicko in my book. For the benefit of you alone, because I'm betting everyone else reading this thread will already know: I am referring to your calling iceweasel a liar. Now if you don't mind, I've really had enough of your stupidity for one night.
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