Pro-Life or Pro-Death?

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
US News • Sat Sep 12, 2009 at 1:47 pm PDT • Views: 2,198

A sign that was distributed widely at today’s Tea Party in Washington DC:

It’s disgusting enough on its own, but the group that created this is the American Life League — a “pro-life” group.

Yes. A pro-life group that celebrates death. Lovely.

UPDATE at 9/12/09 2:12:43 pm:

And then we have the open threats of violence:

UPDATE at 9/12/09 2:37:50 pm:

And then we have the Obama-Joker-Hitler signs comparing the health care plan to Third Reich eugenics:

UPDATE at 9/12/09 2:42:41 pm:

A tin foil hat, shielding its owner from Obama indoctrination rays:

UPDATE at 9/12/09 2:50:00 pm:

I think they forgot to include Pol Pot:

11
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396 comments

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1 thedopefishlives  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:50:17pm

Kinda like the "pro-life" groups that celebrated the death of Dr. Tiller?

2 avanti  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:51:17pm

The pro lifers are usually pro death penalty too. They sometimes are more concerned about a potential human than adult life. That kind of logic makes killing a abortion doctor reasonable to them. Kennedy was pro choice, and thus his death was to be celebrated.

3 jhrhv  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:51:27pm

Would that be a internal moronic convergence?

4 SteveLA  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:52:21pm

So what is wrong with a group having a say, like say SEIU, ACLU, Camp Fire Girls, Boy Scouts, Log Cabin Republicans, John Birch or even ACORN.

It's the American way to be loud and to speak, I'm all for that, including speech I disagree with.

5 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:52:32pm

Wow, the irony stinks so much you can cut it in the air with a knife.

6 Gus  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:52:47pm

Same sign is shown at Politico although in the middle of a slide show. I am reminded of the argument that the GOP has been making regarding certain congressmen and group adhering to the birth certificate conspiracy in which they respond: yes, we know they're crazy but they're our crazies.

Good luck with that.

7 Fenris  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:53:17pm

Please tell me that they're saying this in an ironic vanitas sort of way.

8 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:53:18pm

"Our interest is protecting innocent life..."

/retch

9 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:55:17pm

Too bad Stinky couldn't wade into that crowd with a ban stick...

10 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:55:22pm

To be honest, I also found the "Sore Loserman" signs pretty tasteless too, am I alone?

11 Gella  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:55:32pm

i just went on their cite and i found it really disturbing

12 thedopefishlives  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:55:52pm

re: #9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Too bad Stinky couldn't wade into that crowd with a ban stick...

If we could do that, Republicans might actually have a respectable and electable image/candidate right now.

13 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:55:54pm

re: #10 Hengineer

To be honest, I also found the "Sore Loserman" signs pretty tasteless too, am I alone?

Yes.

14 Dan G.  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:56:37pm

I've always referred to these groups as "pro-birth".

15 Chekote  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:57:09pm

Look at best it is in bad taste. Like the Letterman Palin joke was in bad taste. They are tallking about killing a bill not a person. There were worse sign IHMO.

16 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:57:53pm

Koskidz have more pics: DC Tea Party Photos: Racism and Ignorance
I do agree with them that the "Go Back to Kenya" signs are racist.

17 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:58:45pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

Koskidz have more pics: DC Tea Party Photos: Racism and Ignorance
I do agree with them that the "Go Back to Kenya" signs are racist.

Name one anti Obama sentiment that is not called racist.

18 SixDegrees  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:59:01pm

When Code Pink and other Leftist groups had children carrying signs at their rallies, Michelle Malkin went RabidFrothingBallistic, shrieking that it was "Exploitation!!!"

I wonder what her thoughts on this photo are?

19 Gella  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:59:09pm

re: #14 Dan G.

I've always referred to these groups as "pro-birth".

yes, they are against birth control and against invitro, i see no logic if they are 100% pro-birth, they sounds more like religious lunatics to me

20 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:59:19pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

Koskidz have more pics: DC Tea Party Photos: Racism and Ignorance
I do agree with them that the "Go Back to Kenya" signs are racist.

Absolutely racist, without a doubt.

21 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:59:42pm

re: #4 SteveLA

So what is wrong with a group having a say, like say SEIU, ACLU, Camp Fire Girls, Boy Scouts, Log Cabin Republicans, John Birch or even ACORN.

It's the American way to be loud and to speak, I'm all for that, including speech I disagree with.

There's nothing wrong with them "having a say" just as there's everything right about criticizing rascist scumbag fifties throwbacks like those in the John Birch Society.

22 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:59:46pm

re: #13 kansas

Yes.

Not sure what you mean, I thought what Gore and his team of lawyers was doing WAS in bad taste, but the sign mocking him was pretty bad. I'm not saying they didn't have the right to show it, I just thought it was kinda tasteless.

23 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:59:52pm

re: #17 kansas

Name one anti Obama sentiment that is not called racist.

Sorry but telling a black man to go back to Africa is racist. It is.

24 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 1:59:59pm

re: #17 kansas

Name one anti Obama sentiment that is not called racist.

Are you seriously going to try to argue that telling a black president to go back to Africa isn't a racist statement?

25 jhrhv  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:00:03pm

It's a shame so many people foist their idiocy onto their children.

26 Gus  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:00:32pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

Koskidz have more pics: DC Tea Party Photos: Racism and Ignorance
I do agree with them that the "Go Back to Kenya" signs are racist.

They missed this one:

Robin for the Hood

With Obama as Robin. The message of course is that Obama is a president for the hood.

27 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:00:40pm

re: #18 SixDegrees

When Code Pink and other Leftist groups had children carrying signs at their rallies, Michelle Malkin went RabidFrothingBallistic, shrieking that it was "Exploitation!!!"

I wonder what her thoughts on this photo are?

"We are educating our children on the right things to do! Nothing wrong with chidlren supporting lfie!"

///

28 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:00:50pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

Would "Go Back to Hawaii" be okay?

29 Chekote  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:00:58pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

Yes. Go back to Kenya signs are racist. Not acceptable.

30 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:02:15pm

re: #28 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Would "Go Back to Hawaii" be okay?

Go spend time on Waikeikei!!!1111eleven!11

31 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:03:12pm

re: #22 Hengineer

Not sure what you mean, I thought what Gore and his team of lawyers was doing WAS in bad taste, but the sign mocking him was pretty bad. I'm not saying they didn't have the right to show it, I just thought it was kinda tasteless.

I thought it was spot on really. He was always trying to jury rig the vote in counties that favored him never calling for a whole state re-count and hypocritcally tried to have the military vote diminished. Anyway, can't re-fight that battle, but Sore Loserman he was and still is.

32 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:04:09pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

Koskidz have more pics: DC Tea Party Photos: Racism and Ignorance
I do agree with them that the "Go Back to Kenya" signs are racist.

I knew this was going to be a bad one.

33 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:04:30pm

re: #24 Charles

Are you seriously going to try to argue that telling a black president to go back to Africa isn't a racist statement?

No. I'm just saying the racist theme is getting old. It's used so much I don't even check out to see if in this particular instance whether it was racist or not.

34 jhrhv  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:04:51pm

After all those years of Bush bashing I never thought the GOP would stoop as low. I thought post Bush the GOP would end up looking very classy after all that BDS crap. It's tragic that so many are proving me wrong.

35 Salamantis  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:05:32pm

re: #4 SteveLA

So what is wrong with a group having a say, like say SEIU, ACLU, Camp Fire Girls, Boy Scouts, Log Cabin Republicans, John Birch or even ACORN.

It's the American way to be loud and to speak, I'm all for that, including speech I disagree with.

And if I don't like what others have to say, I am likewise free to loudly disagree with it. Which I frequently do (Lizards can vouch for this point...;~)

36 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:05:49pm

There are already several photos circulating of people with signs that say "We came unarmed -- this time."

A clear threat of violence.

37 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:06:05pm

re: #35 Salamantis

And if I don't like what others have to say, I am likewise free to loudly disagree with it. Which I frequently do (Lizards can vouch for this point...;~)

I DISAGREE WITH YOU!!!


;-)

38 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:06:26pm

re: #30 Hengineer

1111eleven!11

I swear, I just don't get that. Please 'splain?

39 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:06:39pm

re: #36 Charles

There are already several photos circulating of people with signs that say "We came unarmed -- this time."

A clear threat of violence.

Definitely.

40 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:07:16pm

re: #2 avanti

The pro lifers are usually pro death penalty too. They sometimes are more concerned about a potential human than adult life. That kind of logic makes killing a abortion doctor reasonable to them. Kennedy was pro choice, and thus his death was to be celebrated.

Yes. There was a fabulous smackdown of the vile Anne Coulter over this by someone-- Coulter was saying that all Catholics should never support pro-choice candidates and that they should all be excommunicated if they did.

She was asked if she supported that stance when it came to the death penalty, since Catholics are also morally opposed to the death penalty.

She kept trying to claim that an anti-death penalty stance was not part of Catholic dogma.
There is no lie that woman won't tell. Completely shameless.

41 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:07:24pm

re: #38 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I swear, I just don't get that. Please 'splain?

Its a play on those that add too many exclamation marks, they don't always hit the shift key so it comes out with a few ones...

42 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:07:51pm

It would've been nice to see a sign that read "Let's bury the hatchet, and work together to make America a better place."

/Elevation, not polarization.

43 jhrhv  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:08:00pm

re: #36 Charles

I wonder how many of these people didn't even bother to vote.

44 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:08:14pm
45 Gus  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:08:16pm

re: #36 Charles

There are already several photos circulating of people with signs that say "We came unarmed -- this time."

A clear threat of violence.

Here's one I posted in the previous thread:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

46 fizzlogic  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:08:16pm

re: #34 jhrhv

After all those years of Bush bashing I never thought the GOP would stoop as low. I thought post Bush the GOP would end up looking very classy after all that BDS crap. It's tragic that so many are proving me wrong.

You must've missed the 90s. I regret that I traveled down that rabbit hole back then. I refuse to do it again.

47 Fenris  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:08:23pm

re: #36 Charles

There are already several photos circulating of people with signs that say "We came unarmed -- this time."

A clear threat of violence.

I read that more like, "Okay, we carried guns before, but we're unarmed now."

48 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:08:24pm

re: #34 jhrhv

After all those years of Bush bashing I never thought the GOP would stoop as low. I thought post Bush the GOP would end up looking very classy after all that BDS crap. It's tragic that so many are proving me wrong.

So after being abused for 8 years you thought they should be nice? Why would that happen? They saw what happens. Bash Bush for 8 years. Pelosi called him a liar, Reid said he was a loser. Schumer, Kerry, and others all bashed and lied. What did that get them? The House. Senate, and White House.

49 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:08:37pm

re: #33 kansas

No. I'm just saying the racist theme of pointing out reality is getting old. It's used so much I don't even check out to see if in this particular instance whether it was racist or not.

Facts are facts. Some claims of racism are false; many are not.

50 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:08:42pm

re: #36 Charles

There are already several photos circulating of people with signs that say "We came unarmed -- this time."

A clear threat of violence.

Not an empty one either. The ammunition hoarding frenzy continues unabated despite an influx of new suppliers.
One of our local radio stations, KFYO, now provides a "weekly ammunition" report during the Friday morning show, tracking supplies at local retailers.

51 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:09:22pm

re: #42 Kreuzueber Halbmond

It would've been nice to see a sign that read "Let's bury the hatchet, and work together to make America a better place."

/Elevation, not polarization.

The person carrying that sign would have a hatchet buried in their skull.

52 Fenris  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:09:24pm

re: #45 Gus 802

Here's one I posted in the previous thread:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

I didn't know Ted Turner liked his guns.

53 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:09:52pm

re: #42 Kreuzueber Halbmond

It would've been nice to see a sign that read "Let's bury the hatchet, and work together to make America a better place."

/Elevation, not polarization.

Unfortunately, in the current political climate, a sign like that would be likely to feature Obama and an axe.

54 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:10:49pm

re: #49 iceweasel

Facts are facts. Some claims of racism are false; many are not.

We can rest assured that MSM will point out the ones that are and minimize those that aren't.
Plus I don't the Kos Kidz have much room to complain when it comes to bashing a President.

55 Floral Giraffe  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:10:50pm

re: #45 Gus 802

Linked at cough, drudge, cough is a Washington Post article that lists a LOT of really bad signs. No pictures, though...

56 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:10:50pm

re: #48 kansas

So after being abused for 8 years you thought they should be nice? Why would that happen? They saw what happens. Bash Bush for 8 years. Pelosi called him a liar, Reid said he was a loser. Schumer, Kerry, and others all bashed and lied. What did that get them? The House. Senate, and White House.

But it also got us to the point where the far left is ruling the Democratic Party. You want to far right to rule the Republican party?

57 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:11:50pm

re: #56 Hengineer

But it also got us to the point where the far left is ruling the Democratic Party. You want to far right to rule the Republican party?

I don't want what we have now.

58 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:12:35pm

re: #57 kansas

I don't want what we have now.

whose "we"? I'm not a Republican.

59 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:12:35pm

re: #2 avanti

The pro lifers are usually pro death penalty too. They sometimes are more concerned about a potential human than adult life. That kind of logic makes killing a abortion doctor reasonable to them. Kennedy was pro choice, and thus his death was to be celebrated.

Agreeing with the death penalty is one thing. But you lump that in with killing. Not the same. Not even close.

60 Gus  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:12:39pm

re: #55 Floral Giraffe

Linked at cough, drudge, cough is a Washington Post article that lists a LOT of really bad signs. No pictures, though...

Ah, took a quick look and couldn't find the link for the signs.

61 Fenris  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:13:20pm

re: #57 kansas

I don't want what we have now.

It already is. Sadly, there really isn't a such thing as objective debate anymore.

62 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:13:46pm

re: #56 Hengineer

But it also got us to the point where the far left is ruling the Democratic Party. You want to far right to rule the Republican party?

I will become a staunchly un-political curmudgeon if that happens.

We're becoming the great "unbalanced".

Sigh.

63 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:14:01pm

re: #44 Blastforth

I think that's a really crappy thing to say. When something actually is racist, it should be called such, and to turn it around to portray the racist(s) as the victim is wrong.

64 SixDegrees  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:14:07pm

re: #47 fenrisdesigns

I read that more like, "Okay, we carried guns before, but we're unarmed now."

It's clearly a threat. DC is not an open carry area and never will be. An explicit declaration that you're going to show up there openly carrying is a declaration of intent to break the law - at the very least. Given that the folks attending aren't given to minimalism, it's certainly much worse than that.

65 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:14:18pm

re: #62 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I will become a staunchly un-political curmudgeon if that happens.

We're becoming the great "unbalanced".

Sigh.

I'm probably already unbalanced... by some definitions ;)

66 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:14:27pm

re: #54 kansas

Just an msm victim, eh?

67 jhrhv  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:15:12pm

re: #48 kansas

What's that saying an eye for an eye leaves you both blind? Attacking each other isn't what is needed right now. A large number of hypocrites and nuts marching in DC is never needed.

68 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:15:12pm

re: #58 Hengineer

whose "we"? I'm not a Republican.

We would be the people of the United States.

69 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:15:28pm

Oh, for pity's sake.

Michelle Malkin is estimating the DC turnout at two million.

Do I hear three?

70 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:16:02pm

re: #51 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The person carrying that sign would have a hatchet buried in their skull.

Or drowned in a vat of crazy tea..

71 Gus  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:16:23pm

Oh boy. Look at this one I just saw at CNN:

Image: art.militia.signs.cnn.jpg

Article is here:

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

72 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:16:24pm

The sign above is completely tacky. Imagine if the democrats had used Ronald Reagan in such a manner. We would be rightfully outraged. Why should this be any different?

73 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:16:48pm

re: #69 shiplord kirel

Oh, for pity's sake.

Michelle Malkin is estimating the DC turnout at two million.

Do I hear three?

Must have used the same head counters as the Million Man March.

74 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:17:24pm

re: #69 shiplord kirel

Oh, for pity's sake.

Michelle Malkin is estimating the DC turnout at two million.

Do I hear three?

lmao is she including everybody walking around who weren't even part of the protests and were just DC tourists? When I went there there were probably at least hundreds of thousands of people just being tourists.

75 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:17:33pm

re: #71 Gus 802

Oh boy. Look at this one I just saw at CNN:

[Link: i2.cdn.turner.com...]

Article is here:

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

I wonder how many push-ups the guy on the right could manage in an army PT test?

76 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:17:36pm
77 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:17:49pm

re: #69 shiplord kirel

Oh, for pity's sake.

Michelle Malkin is estimating the DC turnout at two million.

Do I hear three?

No way. Not even close.

78 SteveLA  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:18:09pm

re: #21 Thanos

There's nothing wrong with them "having a say" just as there's everything right about criticizing rascist scumbag fifties throwbacks like those in the John Birch Society.

Yea, but how about them Camp Fire Girls, sheesh they don't even pledge allegiance to the Dear Leader Obama. I'd even bet the Log Cabin Republicans don't like Moose Hunting...You Betcha.

79 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:18:35pm

re: #76 Blastforth

The race card is played too often. Give it a rest already.

No, I won't be giving it a rest. Decent people should be condemning it when racists say "go back to Africa."

What's wrong with you?

80 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:18:37pm

re: #75 shiplord kirel

I wonder how many push-ups the guy on the right could manage in an army PT test?

4, if given break time.

81 Gus  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:19:24pm

re: #75 shiplord kirel

I wonder how many push-ups the guy on the right could manage in an army PT test?

12. But it would require a jelly donut to inspire him. //

82 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:19:36pm

re: #77 Charles

No way. Not even close.

Malkin isn't even there, btw.

83 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:19:55pm

re: #71 Gus 802

Yeesh!

84 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:19:59pm

Another jawdropper:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

85 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:20:42pm
86 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:20:46pm

Giving in to the victimhood mentality is something I never thought I'd see grow in the right. We're not responsible because we're victims! We're supposedly the party of personal responsibility, but when we do nothing but paint ourselves as victims, we're actually abdicating on our own responsibility. How very disappointing.

87 SixDegrees  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:21:00pm

re: #74 Hengineer

lmao is she including everybody walking around who weren't even part of the protests and were just DC tourists? When I went there there were probably at least hundreds of thousands of people just being tourists.

Obama's inauguration drew something like 1.5 million, and it crippled DC despite weeks of advance planning.

I'm putting money on a final tally of around 30,000 to 50,000. Maybe. That seems consistent with the near-nonexistent disruption DC seems to have experienced, and with the photos I've seen so far.

88 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:21:26pm
89 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:21:44pm

Screen jump!!

90 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:21:59pm

re: #79 Charles

The need to purposefully make anything as completely and totally racism-proof as possible.

"Go Back To Chicago"
"Go Back To Hawaii"
"Go Back to Illinois"
"Go Back to Yale"

Nothing of the above can be taken with offense.

Even if they try.

91 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:22:12pm

Wow...portraying Obama as a homicidal maniac who was last portrayed as an actor who just recently passed away as well, then putting him up against photos of other dictators and thugs who history has told us are evil.

That's not racist at all...
///

92 Fenris  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:22:15pm

re: #64 SixDegrees

It's clearly a threat. DC is not an open carry area and never will be. An explicit declaration that you're going to show up there openly carrying is a declaration of intent to break the law - at the very least. Given that the folks attending aren't given to minimalism, it's certainly much worse than that.

I can see the direction you're going in there. Thanks for pointing that out.

93 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:22:47pm

re: #76 Blastforth

The race card is played too often. Give it a rest already.

It's not "playing the race card" to point out actual instances of racism-- and signs telling the black POTUS to "go back to Kenya" are indisputably RACIST.

This is an obvious point. You know who incessantly whines that the race card is being played every time someone points out an actual instance of racism? Racists and their apologists.

94 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:23:03pm

re: #85 SteveLA

Just when you think it might not be racist.

95 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:23:08pm

Gosh. I hope Charles didn't get the stick.

96 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:23:44pm

re: #91 Hengineer

Wow...portraying Obama as a homicidal maniac who was last portrayed as an actor who just recently passed away as well, then putting him up against photos of other dictators and thugs who history has told us are evil.

That's not racist at all...
///

It's not. It's the very same portrayals Bush got.

97 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:23:48pm

Another day, another racist comes out in the open.

98 jhrhv  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:24:06pm

re: #95 Fat Bastard Vegetarian


I wish Charles could ban Beck from being on TV.

99 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:24:10pm

I have no problem with the Joker images.

100 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:24:14pm

re: #84 Charles

From the same photostream: Tea Party hat

101 SeafoodGumbo  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:24:14pm

re: #69 shiplord kirel

Oh, for pity's sake.

Michelle Malkin is estimating the DC turnout at two million.

Do I hear three?

She's reporting that ABC News is reporting that number.

102 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:24:22pm

re: #96 kansas

It's not. It's the very same portrayals Bush got.

Just because bush haters did it, obama haters have to do it too?

Way to stoop to their level...

103 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:24:37pm

re: #100 Killgore Trout

Bad link...

104 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:24:40pm

Just disgusting. Racist assholes. Go back to europe where you can join some blood and soil parties. *spit*

105 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:24:48pm

re: #2 avanti

The pro lifers are usually pro death penalty too. They sometimes are more concerned about a potential human than adult life. That kind of logic makes killing a abortion doctor reasonable to them. Kennedy was pro choice, and thus his death was to be celebrated.

"pro-lifers" like myself genuinely believe that a baby is a human, not a "potential" human.

And not all pro-lifers are also pro-death penalty. I'm not.

106 debutaunt  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:24:51pm

re: #26 Gus 802

They missed this one:

Robin for the Hood

With Obama as Robin. The message of course is that Obama is a president for the hood.

Missed that. It reminded be of Robbing Hoodlum, like a Chicago reference.

107 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:25:11pm

re: #99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What? They're from alex jones!

108 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:25:13pm
109 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:25:25pm

re: #103 Charles

Hmmm...
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

110 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:25:35pm

re: #108 Blastforth

I agree!

//

111 Gus  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:25:44pm

re: #106 debutaunt

Missed that. It reminded be of Robbing Hoodlum, like a Chicago reference.

That would probably be to nuanced. Maybe?

112 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:26:04pm

re: #109 Killgore Trout

Hmmm...
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

lol...needs no caption

113 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:26:26pm

re: #109 Killgore Trout

Hmmm...
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Jiffy Pop?

114 Maui Girl  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:26:42pm

Wow. I think people are taking the significance of these signs a little too seriously. Burying Obamacare along with Kennedy I read as just another way of saying "Dump Obamacare". Kind of like the expression, "Bury the hatchet".

We came unarmed this time is considered an open threat of violence? Please.

My 2 cents.

115 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:26:44pm

re: #109 Killgore Trout

Hmmm...
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Tin foil hat!

Looks like a real one too, not a joke.

116 jhrhv  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:26:46pm

re: #109 Killgore Trout

Is that a tin foil hat?

/Blinking slowly

117 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:27:31pm

ObamaHitlerSocialismGenocideJoker!

118 fizzlogic  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:27:39pm

Jiffy pop popcorn head.

119 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:27:46pm

re: #102 Hengineer

Just because bush haters did it, obama haters have to do it too?

Way to stoop to their level...


I am not stooping to anything. You said it was racist. I said it was not that Bush got portrayed that way. Then you changed the argument to say two wrongs don't make a right. A couple of others always do that and it's a little annoying.

120 Fenris  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:27:55pm

re: #98 jhrhv

Now, now. Without racists being granted their free speech and all, we wouldn't have a great blog on which to complain about it.

121 MacDuff  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:27:58pm

The standards of good taste seem to have been lowered with each succeeding administration and the "they did it to us, so we'll do it to them" mentality has become all too prevalent.

Open death wishes seem, however, to be a fairly recent descent in terms of protest signs. While Clinton was highly unpopular on the right, I cannot recall this sort of thing back then. I also don't recall "Hitler" characterizations. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

The Presidential death allusions seem to have started with the Bush2 administration when signs depicting bullet holes and "Bushitler" became almost a staple in leftist protests. The film "The Assassination of George W Bush" set a new low for political expression. Having lived through the assassination of a President, the very though was abhorrent.

We seem to continually be "upping the ante" thus denigrating both sides of the spectrum and negating their respective arguments. Decorum, it would appear, has fallen out of fashion and we've become a nation of children, arguing our points as though were were in a high school locker room.

I await the return of good taste and reasoned argument, but I'm not holding my breath.

122 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:28:07pm

re: #117 Killgore Trout

Okay. Well. That one's stupid.

123 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:28:08pm

re: #115 Charles

Keeps the socialist brainwashing rays out.

124 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:28:13pm
125 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:28:26pm

re: #117 Killgore Trout

ObamaHitlerSocialismGenocideJoker!

They really don't know what "eugenics" means, do they?

126 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:28:39pm

re: #117 Killgore Trout

ObamaHitlerSocialismGenocideJoker!

Kida like Neopolitan Ice Cream.
/

127 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:28:55pm

re: #114 Maui Girl

Wow. I think people are taking the significance of these signs a little too seriously. Burying Obamacare along with Kennedy I read as just another way of saying "Dump Obamacare". Kind of like the expression, "Bury the hatchet".

We came unarmed this time is considered an open threat of violence? Please.

My 2 cents.

That may be true, but to bring up someone who did dedicate their life in the service to this country (regardless whether you disagree with them or not) and to use them to bring about your point is pretty tasteless.

128 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:29:17pm

re: #107 Sharmuta

Some other guy created them. Alex may have co-opted them, but I have no problem with them.

finger.

129 Maui Girl  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:29:33pm

re: #28 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Would "Go Back to Hawaii" be okay?

No thanks. Chicago can have him.

130 thedopefishlives  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:29:37pm

re: #125 Sharmuta

They really don't know what "eugenics" means, do they?

Of course not, but it sounds evil, so why not?

131 HAL2010  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:29:47pm

Speaking of racists:

The rise of the English Defence League, whose protests against Islamism have sparked violent city centre clashes, has been chaotic but rapid.

Three months ago, no one had heard of the EDL. But the organisation has risen to prominence in a spate of civil unrest in which far-right activists, football hooligans and known racists have fought running battles with Asian youths. The leadership insists they are not racist and just want to "peacefully protest against militant Islam".

Yet at EDL events, skinheads have raised Nazi salutes and other EDL supporters have chanted racist slogans such as "I hate Pakis more than you". One protest in Luton in May ended with scores of people attacking Asian businesses, smashing cars and threatening passersby.

Insiders have talked of plans to enlist football fans to march for the cause on the basis that "you need an army for a war".

With the organisation's confidence growing and plans for rallies in Leeds, Manchester and tomorrow in Trafalgar Square, concerned police chiefs and government ministers are asking what the English Defence League is, and what it wants.

It appears to have a hardcore of fewer than 200 in "divisions" in Bristol, Birmingham, Leeds and Luton. But those ranks are swelled by rightwing groups including gangs related to football clubs. Last night close to 500 had said they were considering attending the protest in London.

132 Fenris  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:29:47pm

re: #117 Killgore Trout

"I am eugenics"

And I am hunger. Fast food run time.

133 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:29:57pm

To everyone who's bitching about how LGF has changed: We've always goofed on loons and violent extremist signs at protests. Nothing has changed.

134 Floral Giraffe  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:30:20pm

re: #60 Gus 802

It's the featured article...
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Hope it's OK to link it

135 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:30:25pm

re: #119 kansas

I am not stooping to anything. You said it was racist. I said it was not that Bush got portrayed that way. Then you changed the argument to say two wrongs don't make a right. A couple of others always do that and it's a little annoying.

Bush was always protrayed as a chimp. That was very insulting too. I'm just saying that two wrongs do NOT make a right.

What's wrong with you that you actually think two wrongs make a right?

136 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:30:53pm

re: #99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I have no problem with the Joker images.

I didn't like them because they were ugly and crude, and I felt the same way about portrayals of Bush as Hitler and McCain as a vampire.

I'm divided about whether the Obama joker posters were racist. There are arguments to be made on both sides. But I can still dislike them as tacky in any case, even as I support the right of people to make and distribute such images. Free Speech. Sometimes that means listening to even ugly speech-- but there is no idea so dangerous that it cannot be discussed, for bad ideas will therefore be exposed as bad, and the good recognised as such and therefore adopted.

Think I stole that last line as a paraphrase from John Stuart Mill. Somebody, at any rate.

137 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:31:18pm

Obamacare is eugenics.

138 Gus  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:31:19pm

re: #134 Floral Giraffe

It's the featured article...
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Hope it's OK to link it

Thanks. Should be fine.

139 MPH  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:31:23pm

The pro-lifers ruined the NYC tea party I attended...when one of the speakers started ranting about Planned Parenthood.

This is a cool sign though:
[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]

140 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:31:27pm

re: #129 Maui Girl

Where you been? I actually thought of you when I posted that.

141 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:31:46pm

re: #124 Blastforth

Hey asshole- they have no right to tell Obama or anyone else to "go home".

And yes- it's racist.

142 HAL2010  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:32:06pm

re: #137 Charles

Obamacare is eugenics.

Unbelievable.

Where does all this hate come from?

143 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:32:41pm

Here's another Tea Party hat

144 jhrhv  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:32:50pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

To everyone who's bitching about how LGF has changed: We've always goofed on loons and violent extremist signs at protests. Nothing has changed.

Googing on goofs has been a fun game since I was a little kid.

Maybe that guy with the tin foil hat just had a hair transplant.

145 debutaunt  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:32:53pm

re: #69 shiplord kirel

Oh, for pity's sake.

Michelle Malkin is estimating the DC turnout at two million.

Do I hear three?

Has a valid estimate been made?

146 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:33:06pm

re: #142 HAL2010

Unbelievable.

Where does all this hate come from?

The South. I hate those rednecks.
/

147 Hengineer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:33:34pm

re: #146 Cannadian Club Akbar

The South. I hate those rednecks.
/

Yea, stupid hicks clinging to their guns and religion...

///

148 thedopefishlives  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:34:00pm

re: #143 Killgore Trout

Here's another Tea Party hat

Dammit, they're foiling the Super Sekrit Zionist Mind Control Hair Rays. What are we gonna do now?!

149 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:34:44pm

re: #148 thedopefishlives

Dammit, they're foiling the Super Sekrit Zionist Mind Control Hair Rays. What are we gonna do now?!

Foil wrap? Something in a blonde color?

150 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:34:54pm

re: #135 Hengineer

Bush was always protrayed as a chimp. That was very insulting too. I'm just saying that two wrongs do NOT make a right.

What's wrong with you that you actually think two wrongs make a right?

What's wrong with you that you would take an argument about a picture of Obama being portrayed exactly like Bush was portrayed and saying it was racist, then when I pointed out it was not changing the argument. Are you defective in some way?

151 HAL2010  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:35:11pm

re: #148 thedopefishlives

Dammit, they're foiling the Super Sekrit Zionist Mind Control Hair Rays. What are we gonna do now?!

One word: Death Panels.

/sarcasm alert

152 Fenris  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:35:16pm

re: #142 HAL2010

Unbelievable.

Where does all this hate come from?

Well, the LaRouchies are pushing a lot of the Obama-with-a-toothbrush-moustache imagery. According to the ADL, a LaRouche spokesperson claimed that if it's a picture like that, it's probably one of them.

Of course, if we learned anything about protestors from Zombietime, it's that protestors are exhibitionist, and will jump for the most attention-grabbing signs.

153 jhrhv  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:35:19pm

re: #143 Killgore Trout

With every tin foil hat sold you get a coupon for a free I'm an idiot tattoo.

154 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:35:36pm

re: #124 Blastforth

You could tell me to go back to Ireland, or George Soros to go back to Hungary, and no one would be screaming racism. There's a Double standard.

You've brought up a good point, albeit inadvertantly. Telling Obama to go back to Kenya ALSO panders to the lunatic idea that he isn't American, and was not born here.

And if you still can't see why telling a black man to 'go back to Kenya" is RACIST, maybe you should check out the history of statements like that and actual proposals to 'send black people back to Africa' made by white supremacists, nationalists, and racists of all sorts.

You're delusional and living in denial, and I cannot understand why someone would be defending this sign or the idea that it isn't racist. It is.

155 Gus  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:35:50pm

re: #124 Blastforth

Are you even familiar with that the Irish had to go through in early American history?

Whether or not the signs ever existed in large numbers, many New Yorkers and other Americans harboured Nativist sentiment against the Irish Catholic poor in the post-Civil war period. Irish Americans were effectively barred from certain occupations. While the Irish dominated such occupations as domestic service, building, and factory work, they were not present in large numbers in the professions, finance, and other "white collar" businesses. Irish people are stereotyped for violence. Since many of the earliest late 19th century immigrant population was Irish, they received the first attacks and discrimination by Nativists and Protestants.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Does that word Nativist sound familiar?

156 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:36:06pm
157 HAL2010  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:36:20pm

re: #152 fenrisdesigns

Who are speaking at these events?

158 Slumbering Behemoth  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:37:05pm

The REAL fun is going to start this evening, when today's tea partyers finally make it home, some after a few beers, and log onto LGF to see today's posts.

I sure hope Charles and Stinky have plenty of coffee on hand, and a few extra clue-bats and ban-sticks for backup.

159 Fenris  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:37:16pm

re: #157 HAL2010

Paulians and Jonestards. At least in Texas.

160 avanti  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:38:04pm

re: #69 shiplord kirel

Oh, for pity's sake.

Michelle Malkin is estimating the DC turnout at two million.

Do I hear three?

Yippee, a new record./

161 Crimsonfisted  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:38:07pm

OK, I have been lurking on and off all day.
On a previous thread:

76 sattv4u2 Sat, Sep 12, 2009 11:41:03am

POPCORN ,,, GET YOU POPCORN HERE

PROGRAMS ,,, CAN'T TELL THE TROLLS APART WITHOUT YOUYR PROGRAMS !!


I concur! (althought I think that comment was referencing trolls here) Every speaker Charles has give us the skinny. I want a scorecard!! Who ISN'T creepy on the right? Anyone? Beuhler?

Is it just that I am this misinformed? Easily led? Stupid?

162 thedopefishlives  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:39:14pm

re: #160 avanti

Yippee, a new record./

For concentrated stupid, perhaps. I'm reminded of the quote that's frequently attributed to Albert Einstein: "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."

163 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:40:01pm

re: #150 kansas

What's wrong with you that you would take an argument about a picture of Obama being portrayed exactly like Bush was portrayed and saying it was racist, then when I pointed out it was not changing the argument. Are you defective in some way?

Here is an editorial in the WaPo arguing that the portrayal of Obama as the joker is different in significant, racially coded ways than the portrayal of Bush.

You may not agree with it,-- I am not sure that I do -- but it should force you to acknowledge that there is at least an argument to be made that there is a difference there.
Unless, of course, you're a racist or racist apologist who refuses to even acknowledge the possibility that MAYBE, just MAYBE, there are people who have a big problem with the idea of a black POTUS.

164 HAL2010  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:40:03pm

re: #159 fenrisdesigns

Paulians and Jonestards. At least in Texas.

What I find chocking is how FOX have legitimized Alex "9/11 was an inside job" Jones. The guy is a fruitcake and is only given a voice because he does not like Obama. If they had any memory prior to January 20th they would do well to look at his statements about the previous President.

165 Maui Girl  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:40:33pm

re: #127 Hengineer

True.

166 jhrhv  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:40:35pm

re: #154 iceweasel

I'd give you another up ding for that post if I could.

167 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:40:36pm

re: #162 thedopefishlives

For concentrated stupid, perhaps. I'm reminded of the quote that's frequently attributed to Albert Einstein: "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."

The Democrats and Obama might want to remember that as they continue pissing off 50% of the country.

168 Fenris  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:40:45pm

re: #160 avanti

Yippee, a new record./

Hah, I can break that fake record with my own fake record! There were four gazillion attendees in DC.

169 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:41:33pm

re: #164 HAL2010

What I find chocking is how FOX have legitimized Alex "9/11 was an inside job" Jones. The guy is a fruitcake and is only given a voice because he does not like Obama. If they had any memory prior to January 20th they would do well to look at his statements about the previous President.

He has been around a for a while. Well before Zero.

170 avanti  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:42:10pm

re: #168 fenrisdesigns

Hah, I can break that fake record with my own fake record! There were four gazillion attendees in DC.

Two million would be over the inaugural and if you recall the millions spent on crowd control and police.

171 Mr. Owl  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:42:28pm

How do these people not see the damage they're doing to their own position? Why is it that political "activists" have the same arguing faculties of your average third grader?

172 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:42:48pm

Gotta go to work.

In a shitty hotel, but check out the name... "The Hermitage".

Note to restaurant... spaghetti noodles with gravy on them is not Fettuccine Alfredo.

Note to hotel...The one room in your hotel that has Internet access is a little less than "some rooms have Internet access".

Note to hotel... The lady at the front desk who added 10.00 to my room rate to move to the "suite" so I could have Internet is an idiot.

Note to hotel...A bench in the cinder-block breezeway with a sign above it that says, "Wireless Hot-spot" may not be what people are looking for.

Note to restaurant...

Carrot cake was very good

.

173 HAL2010  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:43:02pm

re: #169 Cannadian Club Akbar

He has been around a for a while. Well before Zero.

He claimed Clinton was going to call off the 2000 election and claim Martial law didn't he?

174 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:43:15pm

re: #171 Mr. Owl

How do these people not see the damage they're doing to their own position? Why is it that political "activists" have the same arguing faculties of your average third grader?

Please don't make fun of 3rd graders.
/

175 Maui Girl  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:43:15pm

re: #139 MPH

The pro-lifers ruined the NYC tea party I attended...when one of the speakers started ranting about Planned Parenthood.

This is a cool sign though:
[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]

I agree. Good sign. To the point.

176 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:43:18pm

Paulians on today's Glenn Beck program...
WOW! Glenn Beck preaching non-interventionism

I was just watching part of Glenn Beck's 9/12 special.

Patty Anne read a comment from the 9/12 message boards saying how we are attacked out of resentment of our global empire abroad. I was assuming Glenn Beck would call this comment unamerican or something, but he agreed with it!

He prefaced his statement by saying "I'm becoming more libertarian everyday"

Then he talked about how our empire-building began with Teddy Roosevelt and expanded under Woodrow Wilson. He said the progressives want to spread America through global, one-world government while Republicans want to make America great by installing our system around the world.

And then he said both systems are wrong. Instead we should "mind our own business" and spread our values by setting a good example here at home.

They are thrilled.

177 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:43:28pm
178 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:43:48pm

re: #145 debutaunt


Transnational Totalitarian Marxist Fox News is reporting tens of thousands.

"They came. They saw. They protested.

Yet it remains to be seen whether the demonstration in the nation's capital by
tens of thousands of activists Saturday against what they view as out-of-control spending by an expanding federal government will conquer Washington."

179 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:44:01pm
180 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:44:25pm

re: #171 Mr. Owl

How do these people not see the damage they're doing to their own position? Why is it that political "activists" have the same arguing faculties of your average third grader?

They see the Democrats did it for 8 years and got elected. It's not pretty but apparently it works.

181 MPH  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:44:39pm

re: #176 Killgore Trout

Paulians on today's Glenn Beck program...
WOW! Glenn Beck preaching non-interventionism

They are thrilled.

The paleocon freaks are getting bolder and bolder...

182 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:45:10pm

re: #173 HAL2010

He claimed Clinton was going to call off the 2000 election and claim Martial law didn't he?

You said the previous President, aka, Bush 43. Sorry for the confusion.

183 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:45:14pm

re: #179 jcbunga

Oops. Bye bunga.

184 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:45:45pm
185 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:46:14pm

re: #166 jhrhv

I'd give you another up ding for that post if I could.

Aw, Cheers! Thanks very much.
I'm getting really pissed off at the latent racism popping out all over the place here, and the people who are so deep in ODS they can't even bring themselves to criticise a sign which ought to be widely condemned by good people everywhere. This isn't a partisan issue, it's a humanity issue.

God knows what this place will be like tonight. I predict massive troll infestation.

186 HAL2010  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:46:24pm

re: #182 Cannadian Club Akbar

Sorry, you said he was around before 9/11, thought you meant his comment regarding Clinton.

187 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:46:26pm

Screen jump!!!

188 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:46:32pm

re: #179 jcbunga

Flounce away, little flounceling.

189 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:47:16pm

re: #184 HAL2010

On the one hand there is civil discourse, debate and reasoning. On the other hand there is what is going on right now.

I have in front of me a High School History text that outlines some pretty nasty insults hurled back and forth between politicians thoughout the years. I don't think any of them got the vapors.

190 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:47:34pm

re: #179 jcbunga

Good riddance.

191 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:47:36pm

re: #186 HAL2010

Sorry, you said he was around before 9/11, thought you meant his comment regarding Clinton.

Zero=Obama, sorry. We all good.

192 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:48:30pm

re: #188 Charles

Flounce away, little flounceling.

How many today?

193 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:48:57pm

re: #192 MandyManners

How many today?

6 now? IIRC.

194 HAL2010  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:49:26pm

re: #189 kansas

I have in front of me a High School History text that outlines some pretty nasty insults hurled back and forth between politicians thoughout the years. I don't think any of them got the vapors.

I watch PMQ's most weeks, I know an insult when I see one. What we have here is nothing but racist hatred based on large parts of ignorance and fear.

195 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:49:36pm

re: #177 Blastforth

You forgot Abraham Lincoln, who advocated making a new country for freed slaves in central america.

Making stupid comments about Obama's supposed national origin (a British Colony at the time of his birth, just like where George Washington was born) is stupid but it is not necessarily racist. To call it that only delutes what real racism is.

And, no, I'm not a birther.

Got it. You're not a racist or a birther, just someone who refuses to condemn instances of racism and defends nirther signs.

Wanker.

196 Big Steve  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:49:43pm

re: #188 Charles

Flounce away, little flounceling.

Is it Flounceling or Flouncling...grammar isn't my strong suit

197 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:50:42pm

re: #195 iceweasel

Got it. You're not a racist or a birther, just someone who refuses to condemn instances of racism and defends nirther signs.

Wanker.

Excellent argument.

198 Gus  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:50:42pm

re: #176 Killgore Trout

Paulians on today's Glenn Beck program...
WOW! Glenn Beck preaching non-interventionism

They are thrilled.

Isolationist -- Paulian.

He'll be calling for the withdrawal of US troops in Afghanistan once he finds a way to peg that as "Obama's war."

199 Yellowstone  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:50:53pm

re: #193 Cannadian Club Akbar

6 now? IIRC.

Please don't say that. I'm getting all ready to watch the Trojans go after the Buckeyes.

And you know what they say - no six before a game.

200 jhrhv  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:51:20pm

With 6 here today. I can't and don't want to imagine what's going on at the free for all sites. I just don't see what good comes out of this asinine behavior.

201 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:51:52pm

re: #177 Blastforth

You forgot Abraham Lincoln, who advocated making a new country for freed slaves in central america.

Making stupid comments about Obama's supposed national origin (a British Colony at the time of his birth, just like where George Washington was born) is stupid but it is not necessarily racist. To call it that only delutes what real racism is.

And, no, I'm not a birther.

Oh, right. Saying "go back to Africa" to a black man isn't racist at all, is it?

How can you try to defend this? What the hell is wrong with you?

202 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:51:58pm

re: #199 Yellowstone

Please don't say that. I'm getting all ready to watch the Trojans go after the Buckeyes.

And you know what they say - no six before a game.

USC should do well, but QB is still a freshman.

203 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:52:05pm

re: #177 Blastforth

You forgot Abraham Lincoln, who advocated making a new country for freed slaves in central america.

Liberia is in Central America?

204 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:52:27pm

re: #197 kansas

Excellent argument.

Actually, it's two descriptive statements that apply-- not an argument. I made the arguments upthread.

But thanks for playing.

205 Gus  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:53:25pm

re: #203 Sharmuta

Liberia is in Central America?

Does Iberia fly to Liberia?

//

206 kafir  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:53:25pm

re: #36 Charles

er ...

there doesn't look like a pause, or punctuation between "this time" and "unarmed".

Color me skeptical, but I don't see that as an implied threat. I do see it as an attempt to flip a bird in the direction of those who (rightly) blasted them for coming to a rally with arms last time.

Maybe I am just missing the comma, the hyphen, or whatever. I don't see it.

Those bozos were handed their proverbial heads over their actions last time, and I think they are calling attention to themselves saying "hey we're unarmed this time", which means something very different than "hey we're unarmed, this time".

The latter is a threat, the former isn't. I just don't see the latter up there. I do see the former.

207 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:53:46pm

re: #193 Cannadian Club Akbar

6 now? IIRC.

I hope Mr. Beaumont gets a chance to crack open a Belgian brew this evening.

208 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:54:04pm

re: #206 kafir

er ...

there doesn't look like a pause, or punctuation between "this time" and "unarmed".

Color me skeptical, but I don't see that as an implied threat. I do see it as an attempt to flip a bird in the direction of those who (rightly) blasted them for coming to a rally with arms last time.

Maybe I am just missing the comma, the hyphen, or whatever. I don't see it.

Those bozos were handed their proverbial heads over their actions last time, and I think they are calling attention to themselves saying "hey we're unarmed this time", which means something very different than "hey we're unarmed, this time".

The latter is a threat, the former isn't. I just don't see the latter up there. I do see the former.

Careful -- you're gonna pull a muscle making such an extreme reach.

209 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:54:44pm

"The election of 1800 pitted Thomas Jefferson against President John Adams. Each party hurled wild charges at the other. Adams was called a tool of the rich and accused of wanting to turn the executive branch into a British style monarchy. Jefferson was said to be a dangerous supporter of revolutionary France and an atheist."

Politics ain't beanbag.

210 McSpiff  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:54:51pm

re: #200 jhrhv

This place is my shelter from the storm today. (Actually, its the only conservative site I post at, but I lurk at a few others)

211 Maui Girl  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:55:53pm

re: #198 Gus 802


Afghanistan is already being pegged as Obama's war. Someone beat Beck to it.

212 kafir  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:55:56pm

re: #208 Charles

No reach there at all. I think the reach is impuning a motive and a missing punctuation symbol.

213 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:55:57pm

re: #206 kafir

er ...

there doesn't look like a pause, or punctuation between "this time" and "unarmed".

Color me skeptical, but I don't see that as an implied threat. I do see it as an attempt to flip a bird in the direction of those who (rightly) blasted them for coming to a rally with arms last time.

Maybe I am just missing the comma, the hyphen, or whatever. I don't see it.

Those bozos were handed their proverbial heads over their actions last time, and I think they are calling attention to themselves saying "hey we're unarmed this time", which means something very different than "hey we're unarmed, this time".

The latter is a threat, the former isn't. I just don't see the latter up there. I do see the former.

Huh. Tell me, would you have been making this same argument about an anti-war protester marching on DC, after a series of incidents involving assassination rhetoric and lefties showing up armed at Republican town halls?
Somehow I suspect not.

214 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:55:59pm

re: #204 iceweasel

Actually, it's two descriptive statements that apply-- not an argument. I made the arguments upthread.

But thanks for playing.

No, it was the wanker comment I thought was an excellent argument. Your name calling gets old.

215 HAL2010  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:56:16pm

re: #209 kansas

"The election of 1800 pitted Thomas Jefferson against President John Adams. Each party hurled wild charges at the other. Adams was called a tool of the rich and accused of wanting to turn the executive branch into a British style monarchy. Jefferson was said to be a dangerous supporter of revolutionary France and an atheist."

Politics ain't beanbag.

Jee golly there mister, I sure am glad the country hasn't changed one bit since then.

/Pines for the good old days

216 teleskiguy  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:56:24pm

This is disturbing. I hope USSS is on top of their game, investigating people who are hurling death threats toward our president. These fringe right wing people are batsh*t insane and I long for substantial debate a la Buckley. Alas, it is not so, 'cause fringe righties are getting a large public platform to spew their bile. Thank God, Krshna, Allah, Jesus, Buddah, Jah, uh, thank every fuc*king god there is...that I can come to LGF, where the heads are cool, informed, forward thinking and adult.

217 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:56:27pm
218 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:57:08pm

re: #215 HAL2010

Jee golly there mister, I sure am glad the country hasn't changed one bit since then.

/Pines for the good old days

Way to miss the point, wanker. Hey, it works for Iceweasel.

219 jhrhv  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:57:27pm

re: #217 Blastforth

Give it up man you're in the wrong on this one.

220 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:57:48pm

re: #212 kafir

No reach there at all. I think the reach is impuning a motive and a missing punctuation symbol.

Impugning a motive?? Have you been in a coma for the summer and missed what's been going on? Would you have thought that sign was a JOKE or lighthearted or argued it was missing a punctuation symbol if the left did it??

221 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:58:01pm

re: #217 Blastforth

Its seems more of a birther reference than a racial reference to me, thats all. Are all birthers racists? If so, you may have a point.

I don't know why you think it's more birther than racist. And yes- some of the birtherism is because of racism.

222 BlackFedora  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:58:22pm

This is exactly like the craziness of the left wing anti-war protests during the Bush administration... only this stuff is far right.

Crazy is crazy though no matter how you slice it and to quote a Ramones song, "I'm against it."

223 kafir  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:58:47pm

re: #213 iceweasel

Actually I would make the same argument. Political rhetoric is rhetoric. Its when it gels into action or threats of action that you have to wonder. I don't see this as a threat of action. You do. We disagree.

224 arethusa  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:58:47pm

More pics (generally more tasteful).

225 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:59:07pm

re: #181 MPH

Nice attempt over at Vodkapundit, mph. Looks like Mr. Green does not wish to open his eyes at this point.

226 HAL2010  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 2:59:26pm

re: #219 jhrhv

Give it up man you're in the wrong on this one.

If you are somehow equating racism and tin-foil attacks (literally) against the President with some sort of "debate" you are wrong on all fronts.

227 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:00:02pm
228 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:00:30pm

re: #214 kansas

No, it was the wanker comment I thought was an excellent argument. Your name calling gets old.

Again, the wanker comment was a descriptive statement, not an argument.

Your pearlclutching and kneejerk racist apologetics are pretty old. You'll condemn the use of the word wanker, but not a sign telling Obama to go back to Kenya.
Spare me the hypocritical histrionic calls for 'civility' whenever a lefty uses a word you don't like, while excusing, minimsing and overlooking RACISM-- because that's what damned old.

229 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:00:43pm

re: #224 arethusa

More pics (generally more tasteful).

Hey, those don't paint the picture of these idiots the MSM wants.

230 brandon13  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:02:00pm

re: #229 kansas

Hey, those don't paint the picture of these idiots the MSM wants.

Some of them do.

231 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:02:39pm

All during the election season people on the right were saying it was about the content of Obama's character they disapproved of- but we're not seeing attacks on his positions, we're not seeing questions about his character. We're seeing signs to tell him to go back to Africa. That kind of argument has nothing to do with character and everything to do with race. It's disgusting.

232 jhrhv  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:02:59pm

re: #226 HAL2010

Not sure what you mean. I mean the go back to Africa statement is wrong and should not be supported.

The tin foil hat thing need no explanation unless there is one for why these people were wearing them I'm just not getting. Seems straight up nuts to me.

233 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:03:01pm

re: #225 wrenchwench

Nice attempt over at Vodkapundit, mph. Looks like Mr. Green does not wish to open his eyes at this point.

I notice that people are still reading every word of every comment here at LGF, looking for anything they can use to smear me.

234 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:03:22pm

re: #217 Blastforth

Its seems more of a birther reference than a racial reference to me, thats all. Are all birthers racists? If so, you may have a point.

In my opinion, a person who continues to press the nirth certifikit issue at this point is likely to be motivated, consciously or otherwise, by racism.

235 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:03:29pm

re: #228 iceweasel

Again, the wanker comment was a descriptive statement, not an argument.

Your pearlclutching and kneejerk racist apologetics are pretty old. You'll condemn the use of the word wanker, but not a sign telling Obama to go back to Kenya.
Spare me the hypocritical histrionic calls for 'civility' whenever a lefty uses a word you don't like, while excusing, minimsing and overlooking RACISM-- because that's what damned old.

Knee jerk racist apologetics? Hypocrtical histrionic calls for civility? Overlooking racism?
Where the fuck do you come up with this shit? Wanker.

236 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:03:34pm

re: #231 Sharmuta

All during the election season people on the right were saying it was about the content of Obama's character they disapproved of- but we're not seeing attacks on his positions, we're not seeing questions about his character. We're seeing signs to tell him to go back to Africa. That kind of argument has nothing to do with character and everything to do with race. It's disgusting.

Excellent comment Sharm. Completely agree-- and very well put.

237 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:04:10pm

re: #227 Blastforth

The thinking in that day was many of the freed slave would want their own homeland. Many of them thought they we're already home- in this country.

238 kafir  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:04:15pm

re: #220 iceweasel

Impugning a motive?? Have you been in a coma for the summer and missed what's been going on? Would you have thought that sign was a JOKE or lighthearted or argued it was missing a punctuation symbol if the left did it??

Oy vey.

Hey Charles, what about that feature request?

Iceweasel, seriously. Try decaf for a moment.

I saw the jokers come to a political rally with arms, and they were blasted for it. Rightly so.

I think we agree on that.

Now one of these jokers says "Ha! I'm unarmed this time".

That means something very different than "Ha! I'm unarmed, this time" or "Ha! I'm unarmed - this time".

If you don't get this ...

FWIW, have a look at UN 242 some time. There was furious debate over adding the critical word "the" at one spot in the text. This debate has formed the two sides of the Israeli-Palestinian discourse for the last 40+ years. Or hadn't you noticed?

One word, one punctuation, at the right spot, can completely change the meaning of a text. I do believe it is a stretch, a significant one at that, to imply a threat from that sign, even given these idiots past desire to play with firearms at rallys.

Its called benefit of doubt.

239 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:04:21pm

re: #181 MPH

The paleocon freaks are getting bolder and bolder...

Did you post a comment at Vodkapundit's post? I didn't see it. Was it deleted?

240 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:05:11pm

re: #239 Charles

8. mph:

Well, Stacy McCain does write for Taki Magazine and VDare…two absolutely disgusting (and racist) publications. McCain is openly friendly with the editor of Taki Mag, Richard Spencer, an avowed white nationalist (Spencer proudly told me this himself the one time I was disgraced to meet him – the guy is a f-ing lunatic and anyone who calls themselves a friend of this creature has serious issues of their own).

…and never mind that Stacy McCain is a member of the League of the South. What else do you need to know? Come on Stephen…you are one of the great ones. The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend. Don’t close your eyes to this filth.

241 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:05:45pm

re: #238 kafir

Someone posted a photo a little earlier of the same phrase on a different sign, that does include that comma you seem to think is so important.

Can't find the picture right now. But you're trying to make excuses for something that's not excusable.

242 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:06:09pm

And the response, for those who did not click through:

9. Stephen Green:

mph –

I’m no enemy of Charles Johnson (at least I don’t think so!) and he’s no enemy of mine. I simply reported what CJ said, and then told you what I’ve seen myself.

243 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:07:05pm

re: #236 iceweasel

Thanks.

244 Maui Girl  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:07:40pm

re: #238 kafir

I am currently trying to teach my son the importance of punctuation and how it's placement can change the entire meaning of a sentence. Today's kids aren't being taught proper grammer in school. It's sooo important.

245 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:08:02pm

re: #240 wrenchwench

OK, I didn't see that Stephen Green decided to call me out.

Obviously, we have another person here who would rather look the other way and not see the racists and bigots he's associating with.

246 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:08:27pm
247 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:08:29pm

Because protest signs are well known for grammatical accuracies.

[eye roll]

248 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:08:30pm

re: #235 kansas

Knee jerk racist apologetics? Hypocrtical histrionic calls for civility? Overlooking racism?
Where the fuck do you come up with this shit? Wanker.

On the basis of your posts, kansas. You're more offended by my use of the word wanker than you are those signs.

To me this makes you a shining example of moral vacuity, a hypocrite, and someone who elevates the form of civility--"don't use a bad word!" over the actual existence of morality--"don't tell black men to go back to Africa!"

Perhaps you should call for your fainting couch and your smelling salts now, and engage in faux outrage over the word wanker while ignoring the very disgusting signs today. Because it's all about priorities, right?

249 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:09:12pm

Glenn Beck on Christianity, atheism, and ObamaCare (via Hot Air)

Youtube Video

It's a Darwinist plot!

250 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:09:17pm

re: #246 Blastforth

Sometimes charges of racism are based on instances of actual racism. Ever think of that?

251 Gus  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:09:26pm

re: #242 wrenchwench

And the response, for those who did not click through:

Clearly he's being passive aggressive at this point. Right, after he Tweets the blog and says "sorry no link." He's trying to fan the flames of the lunatic to get more traffic.

252 Maui Girl  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:10:07pm

re: #247 Sharmuta

Because protest signs are well known for grammatical accuracies.

[eye roll]

Then we shouldn't assume the intentions of the individual sign carrier.

253 Gus  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:10:12pm

re: #251 Gus 802

Clearly he's being passive aggressive at this point. Right, after he Tweets the blog and says "sorry no link." He's trying to fan the flames of the lunatic lunatics to get more traffic.

Plural not singular. IE The stalkers.

254 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:10:22pm

re: #251 Gus 802

Clearly he's being passive aggressive at this point. Right, after he Tweets the blog and says "sorry no link." He's trying to fan the flames of the lunatic to get more traffic.

Yeah, he's being a prick. Imagine my surprise.

255 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:10:25pm

Back when I had time to read more than one blog, I used to read Vodka Pundit. He seems like a nice, reasonable person. This is so lame:

Now, I’ve worked with Stacy in person a couple of times, at the DNC last summer and at CPAC in February. Both were crowded, high-stress situations. At no time did I see Stacy treat anyone — of any color, creed, whathaveyou — with anything less than respect and good humor.

So, is Robert Stacy McCain a white supremacist? Hell if I know. But he enjoys breaking bread with agnostic half Jews like me, which would certainly make him a different kind of white supremacist.

So, McCain has good manners in public, and that's good enough for Mr. Green, even after reading mph's information, apparently.

256 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:12:01pm

re: #246 Blastforth

Sorry for not following the party line here, but I totally disagree. Alot of people do not like Obama because of his policies. Blanket charges of racism are reverse racism, intended only to shut down down debate.

I have not seen any blankets. I have seen opinions of very specific signs and statements. I disagree with yours.

257 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:12:04pm

Vlaams Belang can't be fascist because they are called fascists by the left, who are reverse fascists.

Didn't work then, and it's not working now.

258 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:12:31pm

re: #246 Blastforth

Blanket charges of racism are reverse racism, intended only to shut down down debate.

Blanket charges of reverse racism and 'playing the race card' everytime a legitimate instance of racism is pointed out is racist apologetics, intended only to excuse racism and shut down its exposure.

See how that works?

259 kafir  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:12:35pm

re: #241 Charles

Absolutely not making excuses for inexcusable actions and behavior. I am defending the right of a nutjob to write political rhetoric which does not represent a threat to write that political rhetoric. Its called defending the first amendment. No matter how nutty the dimwit who wrote the poster is, it is his right to proclaim how nutty he is. As long as he does not take or imply action from this. And his poster doesn't take or imply action.

Please do find that picture and post it as an update. If there are other nutjobs out there who don't quite grasp that a threat of violence is not a protected form of speech, sure, show me that picture at the rally. But please ... using this loser as the posterboy, and claiming his sign says something it doesn't ... I dunno.

260 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:12:44pm

re: #255 wrenchwench

From his quote...

agnostic half Jew

?

261 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:14:22pm
I am defending the right of a nutjob to write political rhetoric which does not represent a threat to write that political rhetoric.

Where were comments like these at LGF for the last 8 years? My guess is anyone who posed such an argument was called a troll back then.

262 kafir  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:14:42pm

re: #252 Maui Girl

Thats sort of my point. Impuning motives, implying meaning. I am objecting to that.

Yeah, nutjobs went to rallies with guns. Stupid move.

I see this as less than that.

But Charles claims that there is a poster with the menace implied. I'll take him at his word, but this particular nutjob pictured isn't implying the threat.

263 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:14:46pm

re: #257 Sharmuta

Vlaams Belang can't be fascist because they are called fascists by the left, who are reverse fascists.

Didn't work then, and it's not working now.

It's the "I know you are but what am I?" theory of political debate.

The morality of the playground, as well as its rhetoric.

264 jhrhv  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:15:50pm

Large glass of ice water. Check
Bag of popcorn. Check

Going into lurker mode before trying to talk the Mrs. into a drive-in tonight.

Have a nice evening all.

265 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:15:56pm

re: #260 Cannadian Club Akbar

From his quote...

agnostic half Jew

?

One Jewish parent, personal belief in agnosticism. Embrace of cultural identity.

266 JenBee  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:16:04pm

Well, I'll probably be kicked off LGF for this, but I for one am happy to see folks FINALLY waking up and getting pissed off about what the leaders in Washington (BOTH parties) are doing to this country and getting out there and speaking out about it.

That said, the racist signs and veiled threats of violence are completely unacceptable and detract and distract from what the real message is... the message, I believe, is that we have got to stop our government from bankrupting this country and fundamentally changing the framework of America.

It could be argued that the more the Democratic leadership maligns and degrades those who dare to disagree with them, the more angry and borderline people will be, and their signs are a reflection of their frustration.

Regardless, I believe in freedom of speech, and I recognize there are crazies on all sides, in every corner, and behind every good idea. To pick them out and highlight them in a post like this only empowers them and gives them fuel for their fire, attention that they should never get in the first place.

I know I'll be dinged down in a massive way for disagreeing with those that run and control this blog, and I find that unfortunate, because I'm only expressing my opinion... I've been a member of LGF for a number of years, but lately I've noticed that there seems to be no tolerance for anyone with an opinion that differs from the majority here. That said, I can deal with having tens of folks ding me down, but I would hate to be banished from LGF.

Have at me.

267 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:16:06pm

re: #248 iceweasel

On the basis of your posts, kansas. You're more offended by my use of the word wanker than you are those signs.

To me this makes you a shining example of moral vacuity, a hypocrite, and someone who elevates the form of civility--"don't use a bad word!" over the actual existence of morality--"don't tell black men to go back to Africa!"

Perhaps you should call for your fainting couch and your smelling salts now, and engage in faux outrage over the word wanker while ignoring the very disgusting signs today. Because it's all about priorities, right?

No, it's the constant name calling and putting words in other mouths, and the ridicule. I am a shining example of moral vacuity, a hypocrite, I even argue against the existence of morality. Now I am arguing against ...what is it you say..."don't tell a black man to go back to Africa."
Show me where I said that, wanker. You can't because I didn't. You just want to put words and immoral motives onto others. Fine. Why would I have to? Everyone else did. Just because I don't kiss ass and post about how much I agree with everyone or upding every comment means only I am not you.

So keep on kissing ass, updinging everyone, and putting down all those you don't agree with.

268 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:16:32pm

re: #250 Sharmuta

Sometimes charges of racism are based on instances of actual racism. Ever think of that?

Sometimes the wolf is actually at the door.

269 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:16:45pm

And Green links to someone he has heard might be a racist (RS McCain), but won't proffer a link to the material he's talking about, because it's LGF. That's not smart.

270 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:17:08pm

re: #265 iceweasel

One Jewish parent, personal belief in agnosticism. Embrace of cultural identity.


Is he not old enough to have a belief system?

271 jmac1492  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:17:43pm

re: #270 Cannadian Club Akbar

He's not acting like it.

272 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:18:21pm

re: #255 wrenchwench

Back when I had time to read more than one blog, I used to read Vodka Pundit. He seems like a nice, reasonable person. This is so lame:

So, McCain has good manners in public, and that's good enough for Mr. Green, even after reading mph's information, apparently.

Right. It's the "I can't believe my neighbour is a serial killer, he always seems so nice" syndrome. Bizarre.

273 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:18:44pm

re: #266 JenBee

To pick them out and highlight them in a post like this only empowers them and gives them fuel for their fire, attention that they should never get in the first place.

They had the microphones and the stage. They did not need to be "picked out."

274 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:19:16pm

re: #266 JenBee

I did ding you down, but let me tell you why.

People don't get kicked off LGF for having a different opinions. Every thread is filled with debate and disagreements. You articulated your opinion in a polite manner. You may take heat for it, but that's how debate works. Also- only one person controls this site. So- I dinged you down for misrepresenting LGF.

275 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:19:19pm

because we are fairminded folks, we need to speak up wheh the government does something correct. and here's an example ...

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

my feelings about the integrity of the 2010 census have increased dramatically as a result of ACORN no longer being involved with it.

276 Gus  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:20:40pm

re: #254 Charles

Yeah, he's being a prick. Imagine my surprise.

And we've already seen the tactics they employed at Protein Wisdom against LGF. He uses that passive aggressive phrase without linking to LGF but then links to RS McCain and Protein Wisdom.

277 debutaunt  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:20:43pm

re: #237 Sharmuta

The thinking in that day was many of the freed slave would want their own homeland. Many of them thought they we're already home- in this country.

Which leads me to Tiger Woods who broke a course record today. Yippee!

278 arethusa  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:22:08pm

re: #275 _RememberTonyC

because we are fairminded folks, we need to speak up wheh the government does something correct. and here's an example ...

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

my feelings about the integrity of the 2010 census have increased dramatically as a result of ACORN no longer being involved with it.

Absolutely. This decision was a long time coming, and I hope it leads to deeper investigation of ACORN and its exclusion from the federal purse.

279 Yellowstone  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:22:34pm

re: #265 iceweasel

a "personal belief in agnosticism" ? That gave me a chuckle. Isn't that a bit like saying you're committed to ambivalence?

280 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:22:54pm

re: #272 iceweasel

Right. It's the "I can't believe my neighbour is a serial killer, he always seems so nice" syndrome. Bizarre.

And believing he's still nice after seeing a bloody knife in his hand.

281 debutaunt  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:22:55pm

re: #244 Maui Girl

I am currently trying to teach my son the importance of punctuation and how it's placement can change the entire meaning of a sentence. Today's kids aren't being taught proper grammer in school. It's sooo important.

Eats, shoots and leaves.

282 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:22:56pm

re: #246 Blastforth

Sorry for not following the party line here, but I totally disagree. Alot of people do not like Obama because of his policies. Blanket charges of racism are reverse racism, intended only to shut down down debate.

I agree with you insofar as blanket charges of racism are concerned but, there are many SPECIFIC instances of racism against FCBBHO. This sickens me beyond belief because this crap detracts from legitimate criticism of the character of the man and his policies.

283 SixDegrees  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:23:26pm

re: #212 kafir

No reach there at all. I think the reach is impuning a motive and a missing punctuation symbol.

If your parsing were correct, and the sign makers were so deliberate about their punctuation, they would have simply left off the "this time" portion of the phrase; it's completely superfluous in your reading.

The fact that they stuck it on there at all turns the phrase into a direct threat.

How about wasting your time on something worthwhile, like figuring out how to keep a bunch of drooling racist nazi militia wannabees from commandeering the GOP?

284 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:23:31pm

re: #267 kansas

You've been minimising and denying the existence of racism throughout this thread, kansas. While pretending to find the word 'wanker' so, so offensive.

I am hardly upset at your estimation of me or my character, given my assessment of your other opinions in this thread. And it's quite revealing that of all the things you could have taken umbrage at in this thread--- such as, the subject of the post--you're objecting more to the use of the word wanker than anything.

285 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:23:34pm

re: #266 JenBee

I didn't mean to block your account, sorry. Hit the wrong button; it's restored.

286 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:25:21pm

re: #270 Cannadian Club Akbar

Is he not old enough to have a belief system?

? Don't know what you mean?

287 OldLineTexan  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:27:11pm

re: #272 iceweasel

Right. It's the "I can't believe my neighbour is a serial killer, he always seems so nice" syndrome. Bizarre.

That "syndrome" isn't so hard to understand. The vast majority of serial killers seem to be quiet neighbors who "kept to themselves" - after all, they don't want attention. Most people associate that with "nice", as in "My neighbor is nice, he's never chased me through the woods with a chainsaw while wearing a hockey mask and leather apron."

Most of the time, Edna Kravitzes are wrong. ;)

288 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:27:30pm

re: #285 Charles

I didn't mean to block your account, sorry. Hit the wrong button; it's restored.

How does one perform CPR on a Lizard?

289 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:28:13pm

re: #287 OldLineTexan

That "syndrome" isn't so hard to understand. The vast majority of serial killers seem to be quiet neighbors who "kept to themselves" - after all, they don't want attention. Most people associate that with "nice", as in "My neighbor is nice, he's never chased me through the woods with a chainsaw while wearing a hockey mask and leather apron."

Most of the time, Edna Kravitzes are wrong. ;)

ABNERRR RRR.

290 WindHorse  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:29:01pm

CPR = Charles Performs Restore

:)

291 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:29:02pm

re: #276 Gus 802

And we've already seen the tactics they employed at Protein Wisdom against LGF. He uses that passive aggressive phrase without linking to LGF but then links to RS McCain and Protein Wisdom.

Huh, I missed the PW vs LGF fight, but I loathe PW and think Jeff Goldstein is a psychotic. Dan Collins is also a douchebag. He made a completely disgusting post about an ex-gf of his from 20 years ago, provided her name and contact info, and urged the freaks over there to call her for a good time, only in rather more explicit language.
Later he claimed it was a 'joke'.

292 arethusa  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:29:07pm

re: #273 wrenchwench

They had the microphones and the stage. They did not need to be "picked out."

I think perhaps what the original poster meant was that not everyone at that march espoused racism and other disgusting sentiments, or were nut jobs.

293 Truck Monkey  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:29:33pm

re: #287 OldLineTexan

Upding for the Bewitched reference.

294 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:31:35pm

Gotta' go ring the dinner bell.

295 kafir  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:32:32pm

re: #283 SixDegrees

As I said, I simply disagree with what, to me, appears to be groupthink.

Ok, how to free the GOP from racist ideologues, religious fanatics, and other nutjobs? Not a clue.

No, Ron Paul won't save us.

Birthers drive me bonkers, truthers all lie, and pro-lifers celebrate murder.

In 2009, we still have people think it is a good idea to try to replace science with a belief system in school.

2009.

No, I don't have a clue as to how to save this party. The democrats have to lose their lunatic fringe, but the problem is that is most of their party.

The GOP? I dunno.

If we could wrest away the sane democrats and the sane republicans, we might ... might have a fighting chance at a reasonable political party. Though there would be too few people in it to win elections.

So we have a choice between frothing at the mouth democrats, and similar republicans.

Which evil is worse?

Maybe its time to move to Canada or make aliyah.

I dunno.

Voting has ceased being a situation of maximizing good, but one of minimizing evil.

296 Maui Girl  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:34:36pm

re: #275 _RememberTonyC

because we are fairminded folks, we need to speak up wheh the government does something correct. and here's an example ...

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

my feelings about the integrity of the 2010 census have increased dramatically as a result of ACORN no longer being involved with it.


I couldn't believe it when I heard it. This is good news.

297 Maui Girl  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:35:54pm

re: #281 debutaunt

Exactly.

298 richiep  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:36:46pm

Some thoughts from a Conservative Libertarian: I watched the last eight years go by with a very honorable President vilified in the worst of ways by the Left. I have a President who won as a middle of the road candidate but governs from the far Left. I watch as the majority of the media runs interference for the current administration. I see my money going to fund ACORN.

I see a government getting more and more into my life; from the type of light bulb I can use to injecting themselves into my medical care. I see budget deficits at the Local, State, and Federal level exploding and all the majority of Politicians can think of is to raise taxes and fees.

I see a rising anger in the country. I have acquaintances and friends that have never given a second thought to politics or what the news is. Some of the vilest language and anger towards the administration that I have ever heard are coming from the same people. Civil War and Revolution are openly discussed.

The people on the right were never going to be happy with this administration. Those in the middle are now joining them because they were lied to and are extremely scared about the economy and the spending, IMO.

Yes, people are buying firearms/ammunition because they are scared. People are displaying over the edge signs but those numbers are minor compared to the garbage the Left displayed during the previous administration. There are far worse signs and slogans that can see the light of day.

299 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:37:42pm

re: #292 arethusa

I think perhaps what the original poster meant was that not everyone at that march espoused racism and other disgusting sentiments, or were nut jobs.

That may be what she meant. But I think she was defending the whole event, and ignoring the fact that it was the organizers who made it reek of disgusting sentiments, not just a few wackos with signs. I have not seen anybody claim that all attendees espoused the same thing.

300 Slumbering Behemoth  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:40:39pm

re: #298 richiep

"But they started it" "They did it first"

Arguments that were tiresome and without merit in grade school, are more tiresome and without merit now.

301 eden  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:41:43pm

It's true. There were some nasty signs there today. But, as someone who actually attended the rally, I assure you that at least 85% of the signs out there were not nasty or racist or painfully hyperbolic and hysterical like the signs depicted here. Of course, the major news sources probably won't publish photos of the many thoughtful, well-crafted signs that posed legitimate, reasonable challenges or asked serious questions in a non-derogatory way. But these kinds of signs far outnumbered the ridiculous and shameful kind pictured here.

It is unfortunate and embarrassing that these sentiments exist and are expressed at all, that Conservatives have fallen to the same level the Liberals have reveled in for years, but they do not represent the majority.

302 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:42:47pm

re: #267 kansas

Just because I don't kiss ass and post about how much I agree with everyone or upding every comment means only I am not you.

So keep on kissing ass, updinging everyone, and putting down all those you don't agree with.

By the way, exactly whose ass do you think I'm kissing? And how? I'm pretty certain most people on this site would say that the last thing I do is try to ingratiate myself with people. I'm in the minority here in terms of my opinions, and I'm often told how rude, aggressive, etc I am. Weren't you complaining about that just a few sentences ago?

And I upding people when I agree with them, because I think it's a nice thing to do. Just like calling out bullshit as bullshit is also the right thing to do. And racism as racism.

And again, it seems like you're more worried about your hurt feelings and the words I use than you are with anything else. Seems like you're more hurt that I won't kiss your ass, or let your bullshit slide when you spout bullshit.

Here's another word for you to be offended by:
Butthurt

An inappropriately strong negative emotional response from a perceived personal insult. Characterized by strong feelings of shame. Frequently associated with a cessation of communication and overt hostility towards the "aggressor."

It pretty much captures what you're feeling right now and how you're acting, I'd say. And I'll continue to reserve the right to employ mockery against that which deserves to be mocked. I wasn't aware you were the Thread Police or working the Ding Patrol.

303 debutaunt  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:43:16pm

re: #297 Maui Girl

Exactly.

A downding? Eats, Shoots and Leaves is a book about punctuation. A very wonderful book.

304 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:48:32pm

re: #284 iceweasel

You've been minimising and denying the existence of racism throughout this thread, kansas. While pretending to find the word 'wanker' so, so offensive.

I am hardly upset at your estimation of me or my character, given my assessment of your other opinions in this thread. And it's quite revealing that of all the things you could have taken umbrage at in this thread--- such as, the subject of the post--you're objecting more to the use of the word wanker than anything.

I have not one time denied racism, or minimized it by excusing it. But nice try.

305 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:49:28pm

re: #298 richiep


Yes, people are buying firearms/ammunition because they are scared. People are displaying over the edge signs but those numbers are minor compared to the garbage the Left displayed during the previous administration. There are far worse signs and slogans that can see the light of day.

That is utterly false. There was nothing like the mainstreaming of irrational hatred and anger against Bush, and mainstreaming of explicit assassination rhetoric like what we're seeing now. You have no evidence for your assertion; the evidence that is out there contradicts what you have said, and I cannot see this as anything less than a desire to overlook or excuse the insanity on the right now. Obama received USSS protection in May of 2007, earlier than any other candidate, because of the level of threats against him. Since taking office threats have quadrupled from what they were against Bush. These are facts, not fantasies.
And even if you truly believed the left did worse against Bush, why wouldn't you condemn what's going on now?

306 Mauser  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:50:02pm

Just to inject a little balance, there are a bunch of DC pictures at Black and Right, and this shows a lot of signs that are not horribly racist. I just thought it should be shown that they are not ALL that way.

One other difference he notes is that there's virtually no litter like after the last left-wing protest.

307 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:51:55pm

re: #306 Mauser

Just to inject a little balance, there are a bunch of DC pictures at Black and Right, and this shows a lot of signs that are not horribly racist. I just thought it should be shown that they are not ALL that way.

One other difference he notes is that there's virtually no litter like after the last left-wing protest.

There are hundreds of these kinds of disgusting pictures already posted all over the web. I'm sure there were lots of non-offensive signs too, but it's kind of foolish to try to excuse this insanity by saying "well, not everybody was crazy." We know that not everybody was crazy.

308 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:53:28pm

re: #304 kansas

I have not one time denied racism, or minimized it by excusing it. But nice try.

Sorry, kansas. I'm done and I won't allow you to hijack the thread into a discussion about your hurt feelings and what mean things that mean iceweasel says- any more than you already have, that is. I'm more interested in discussing the issues here---not your petty attacks, your hurt feelings, or indeed anything further with or about you on this. You'll have to conduct your flame war on your own now.

But nice try.

309 kansas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:53:37pm

re: #302 iceweasel
By the way, exactly whose ass do you think I'm kissing? And how?

I've always thought you and Jimmah should get a room. Sharmuta, oh I agree with you 100%. And if Charles belched I bet you would upding it.

Butthurt An inappropriately strong negative emotional response from a perceived personal insult. Characterized by strong feelings of shame. Frequently associated with a cessation of communication and overt hostility towards the "aggressor."
It pretty much captures what you're feeling right now and how you're acting, I'd say. And I'll continue to reserve the right to employ mockery against that which deserves to be mocked. I wasn't aware you were the Thread Police or working the Ding Patrol.

Here's one for you oh superior one

Projection-is the unconscious act of denial of a person's own attributes, thoughts, and/or emotions, which are ascribed to the outside world, like the weather, the government, a tool or another person or people. Projection is the most profound and subtle of our psychological processes, and extremely difficult to work with, because by its nature, it is hidden.
So are you feeling Butthurt, because I don't give a shit.

310 MacDuff  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:55:49pm

There are those who will cling to racism, regardless of the truth set before them; they feel it's their most expedient argument for it exploits basic flaws in the human psyche that civilized behavior has long since buried.

To see racism where it is not is to diminish racism where it is, just as the charge of "Nazi" diminishes the horror and evil of the real thing.

Words and concepts are powerful things and we should use them wisely. Unfortunately, we have not; we have oft wielded these powerful words and concepts capriciously, thus watering them down to an unrecognizable state.

In the future, how will one communicate the nature of unspeakable evil when all of the powerful words have been reduced to jargon?

311 captdiggs  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 3:58:57pm

re: #306 Mauser

Just to inject a little balance, there are a bunch of DC pictures at Black and Right, and this shows a lot of signs that are not horribly racist. I just thought it should be shown that they are not ALL that way.

One other difference he notes is that there's virtually no litter like after the last left-wing protest.

Agree. Large scale demonstrations always attract fringe elements. If a photographer has a particular bent or agenda, they highlight what advances that agenda in those photos.
There were just as many loons at all the anti-Bush rallies of the last eight years. They brought with them the "truthers", the "pro-palestine" brigades and the "America deserved 9/11" whackos.
That did not mean that all democrats could fairly be maligned because of their presence. Nor did it mean that all democrats tolerated those views.

312 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 4:02:52pm

re: #309 kansas


I've always thought you and Jimmah should get a room. Sharmuta, oh I agree with you 100%. And if Charles belched I bet you would upding it.

Downding for your egregious insults, your clear anger and jealousy that I should agree with posters who aren't you, your prurient interest in and speculation about my sexual life, and most of all for your revolting and false claim that I'm some sort of mindless sycophant-- of Charles or anyone.

BTW, you might want to take a very good look at the definition of projection. Physician, heal thyself!
And now we really are done. At least, I am.

313 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 4:07:54pm

re: #311 captdiggs

Agree. Large scale demonstrations always attract fringe elements.

These were not fringe elements. At least half of the speakers at this event were Ron Paulians. And the extreme signs were everywhere.

314 Mauser  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 4:10:27pm

But on the plus side, there were NO car-sized paper-mache puppets. :-)

315 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 4:17:08pm

re: #309 kansas

You're an asshole, and this isn't the first time you've made questionable racist comments.

316 mikey_dallas  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 4:26:18pm
You're an asshole, and this isn't the first time you've made questionable racist comments.


I am not one of the "go back to Kenya" people. I disagree completely with Obama's policies. Can I do that and not be called a racist?

317 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 4:29:14pm

re: #316 mikey_dallas

I am not one of the "go back to Kenya" people. I disagree completely with Obama's policies. Can I do that and not be called a racist?

Of course you can. It's pretty easy. Just disagree with him and don't be a racist.
It also helps when you can acknowledge the existence of racism and the admit that some 'criticisms' of Obama either are racist or employ racist rhetoric.

Really not getting where this "all or nothing" mindset is coming from about this issue.

318 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 4:29:56pm

re: #316 mikey_dallas

Ding down for a stupid question.

319 Optimizer  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 4:36:35pm

re: #24 Charles

Are you seriously going to try to argue that telling a black president to go back to Africa isn't a racist statement?

I think you're missing something here. If they said, "Go back to Africa," then, yes, it would be racist.

But notice that they specifically mention "Kenya". This isn't racism on display - this is Nirther nonsense.

Imagine if he wasn't biracial, but the situation was otherwise the same. If his father had been born in France, say, and the conspiracy nuts were claiming he was born in France, the sign would be saying "Go Back to France". It doesn't have to always be about race, and it's presumptuous to assume it is this time.

320 Pianobuff  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 4:41:38pm

re: #317 iceweasel

Of course you can. It's pretty easy. Just disagree with him and don't be a racist.
It also helps when you can acknowledge the existence of racism and the admit that some 'criticisms' of Obama either are racist or employ racist rhetoric.

Really not getting where this "all or nothing" mindset is coming from about this issue.

Conservatives have been playing a lot of defense lately. These are honest emotions that can get the best of us. It's easy (or at least tempting) to conflate some of the criticism and take it personally. Because much recent conversation and attention has been given to mainstreaming of fringe elements on the right I would suspect some of us may "hear" criticisms about events and players and equate that to criticism of us as individuals, and at some point (perhaps a reaction to the sheer volume?) posters react.

Not excusing Ice, just explaining.

321 Mikko_Sandt  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 4:47:02pm

I have never understood why they have to drag their children into this crap. (This goes to all groups, of course, but I've noticed that left-wing groups are most prone to involve their kids.)

322 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 4:47:07pm

re: #320 Pianobuff

You're right. And it is true that some people do dismiss all criticisms of Obama as racist, or at least they have dismissed as racist some criticisms that weren't. And that also would contribute to the dynamic. It is hard when you're playing defence. Good analysis.

323 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 5:02:52pm

re: #321 Mikko_Sandt

I have never understood why they have to drag their children into this crap. (This goes to all groups, of course, but I've noticed that left-wing groups are most prone to involve their kids.)

I would never take a child to a demonstration, you don't know what kind of idiots are in the crowd, and it's really just a literal stone throw from "crowd" to "mob" to "riot". That goes for almost any large crowd with the exception of those attending entertainment venues. *and even there sometimes things get out of hand.

324 LSD  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 5:05:55pm

re: #321 Mikko_Sandt

I have never understood why they have to drag their children into this crap. (This goes to all groups, of course, but I've noticed that left-wing groups are most prone to involve their kids.)

It goes to all sides - but the worst are those "blood on the face" supremacists who teach their kids all the white power chants, shave their heads, and just hate hate hate.

But to give your young CHILD a sign that says "Bury Obamacare with Kennedy" is just the most cold, disturbing thing and lacks even the most basic form of compassion and decency. LOW.

325 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 5:14:02pm
326 fizzlogic  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 5:15:25pm

Sullivan has a few interesting comments and photos from the protest.

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

327 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 5:16:23pm

re: #325 placeholder

This is hair-splitting BS. There is no way to disassociate the underlying racial undertone of urging an african american to go back to kenya...president or barber.

It would be nice to live in the utopia where history didn't happen, but it did, and France and Kenya aren't the same thing. Your argument is the type of hypocrisy that completely undercuts legitimate issues this president has.

-PH

I couldn't agree more. I think it's completely appalling that anyone would try to make excuses for this.

328 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 5:26:39pm
329 doubter4444  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 5:27:49pm

re: #124 Blastforth

You could tell me to go back to Ireland, or George Soros to go back to Hungary, and no one would be screaming racism. There's a Double standard.

Are you really that stupid?

330 doubter4444  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 5:29:19pm

re: #154 iceweasel

You've brought up a good point, albeit inadvertantly. Telling Obama to go back to Kenya ALSO panders to the lunatic idea that he isn't American, and was not born here.

And if you still can't see why telling a black man to 'go back to Kenya" is RACIST, maybe you should check out the history of statements like that and actual proposals to 'send black people back to Africa' made by white supremacists, nationalists, and racists of all sorts.

You're delusional and living in denial, and I cannot understand why someone would be defending this sign or the idea that it isn't racist. It is.

You tell 'em, Ice

331 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 5:34:47pm
332 doubter4444  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 5:39:49pm

re: #180 kansas

They see the Democrats did it for 8 years and got elected. It's not pretty but apparently it works.

Maybe, just maybe, this assumption that you have, and keep beating like a drum, is not correct.
Maybe, just maybe, the vast numbers of independents and centrists voted for Obama and the Democratic party because they thought the Republican administration over the last 8 years, 6 of which they too ran both houses, did not do a good job.
Perhaps they thought a change was needed, that the actual governing of the country was not done very well, and they wanted to give the other guys a chance.

Probably not, I'm sure it was a combination of the liberal media and institutional vote fraud organizations like ACORN and SEIU that threw the election, over turning the real intent of the Republic.
I'm sure that it's not the Republicans fault in any way.
It's all just the result of dirty politics.

333 Sergeant Major  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 5:43:36pm

The first sign is horrible. How old is that young "lady" holding that sign?
The unarmed sign is another example of the radical right wing..but hey, I guess it's okay for us to complain how radical the left is///

As for the tin foil on the gentleman's head I keep expecting to see Jiffy Pop Pop corn start coming out of his head in the next picture.

Then there's the Hitler/joker sign how outraged were we when President Bush was characterized in the same manner...

POT MEET KETTLE

334 leftover54  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 5:52:25pm

A man has been charged in the shooting deaths of an anti-abortion activist

Killed for carrying a sign. I guess one doesn't have to be a Holy rollin', Bible thumpin',Jesus freakin' religious fanatic to get in on the act (murder).

/just sayin'

335 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 5:53:31pm

re: #334 leftover54

Another one who seems to think this "balances out" the murder of Dr. George Tiller.

336 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 5:56:30pm
337 Slumbering Behemoth  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 5:59:02pm

re: #334 leftover54

He also killed the owner of a gravel pit that same day. Not hearing much about that from people who want to spin this as a politically motivated murder.

Killed for carrying a sign.

What was the gravel pit owner carrying in his office when he was murdered?

Motive has not yet been determined. For you to say that one of the victims was "killed for carrying a sign" is a best disingenuous.

338 Arbalest  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:07:21pm

After looking at the photos at the top of this thread, I looked for sites containing some of the more clever protest posters of President Bush.

There was a thread a week or two ago that had just such a roundup (Hot Air, MM, other?), but I haven’t yet found it. I suspect the photos have been archived to save bandwidth.

However, I found a sample of such photos at www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/ . Scroll down to see the 5 or 6 photos, among them a hanging-in-portrait, one with a toothbrush moustache, one of Bush and Stalin, … This stuff isn't new.

Note also the context of the photos: where were they taken, what are the political views / values of the majority of the protesters at the event(s), what is the mood of the protest, etc.

Don’t miss the photo of the fire resulting from a Molotov cocktail that one of the protesters threw.

Search through Zombie’s site for more pictures and context. I see no photos of the steel nut throwers (as in threaded 1/2”steel nuts), but I’ve seen footage on the local news. Maybe they’re gone now. (Note: I’m in the South Bay and have no affiliation with Z.)

Now, compare all of this information to pictures of the 912 Tea Party. There are only a few pictures here, so check some other sites for more pictures. CNN, MSNBC? What do the vast majority of the signs look like?

The pictures I’ve seen show very, very many American flags, and many anti-Administration policy ones too (anti-Obamacare, anti-socialism, etc.).

Compare and contrast the differences between Leftist behavior over the last 8 years, and that at today’s Tea Party. The difference should be clear

With about 2 million people in attendance, there will always be problems: Paulistinians and other outliers. Based on the reports I’ve seen, I think the “unarmed” people are outliers, and the others are small minorities.


The charge of racism (doubtless, there’s someone . . .) is weak. It’s usually made by someone who’s trying to force through a bill, policy or decision that really can’t be defended in open debate, or by a journalist or TV talking head. It hides those (on all sides) who are truly racist. This points to the charge of racism being racist itself.

This brings up the larger question that everyone seems to ignore: What if the President’s policies are wrong? What if they are essentially an economic disaster that will destroy millions of jobs, savings accounts, lives, etc.?

What do we do; do we shut up, support the President and go bankrupt, or do we stand up, and vote for Congressmen and Senators who will, by virtue of the rights of their offices, oppose the President and pass sane legislation and policies?

I vote for sane legislation and policies. I think that there are another 2 million people or so in D.C. that agree with me.

339 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:08:41pm
340 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:09:26pm

OTOH, I think this sign is clever: "It Doesn't Matter What This Sign Says; You'll Call It Racism"

341 Coracle  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:10:30pm

Evening. Please forgive me if I haven't waded through the tea-party threads today, I just want to relate my experience. I mentioned in the previous thread I was on the Mall today. I was taking my kids to see a couple of the Smithsonian museums. I don't know if this was mentioned anywhere, but there were two major events on the Mall today. The first one, we encountered coming out of the Smithsonian Metro stop was a Black Family Reunion fair. This included dozens of tents, food concessions, two stages, assorted programming and several thousand attendees. I'd guestimate in the 10-20+ K range over the course of the day.

This festival was separated by two or so grassy Mall segments from the area nearest the Capital, which was where the protest was concentrated. The closest I got to it was a hundred or so yards, since we were headed to Air and Space, and I didn't want to actually get mixed in. Still, there was plenty of signage available for us to look at as we headed for the museum, and later on to the Nat'l gallery and Natural History. I would say the majority were pretty classic, if conservatively slanted, protest signs. The Don't Tread On Me snake seems to be one of the major mascots of the movement with many of the yellow flags mixed in with American flags. Looking across the Mall at the crowd, I'd estimate it in the several tens of thousands. Unless they spread a significant ways east and west, there's no way it could have broken 100K.

From the various places we were, the Christian Right seemed to be a significant presence at the rally. Some of the signage, shirts, buttons etc we saw included:
"Abortion is not Healthcare", which was at least on topic, but then there was "God's Law or Chaos".

I saw the instant classic "Obama Lies, Grandma Dies" several times, onw complete with a picture of a granny in a casket.

I saw several Obama/Joker posters and shirts, but no Obama/Hitlers.

Plenty of anti-tax, anti-obamacare, anti-abortion, anti Democrat standards.
There were many "Turn out Congress", "Fire Obama", one "Impeach Obama" and a few simple anti-government signs, including, literally "Abolish Government". Yes, there were Anarchists at the rally. Patriotic Anarchists, I'm sure.

My kids were interested, and sometimes confused about it. I talked to them about the rights of freedom of speech and expression. There were speeches, and I only caught tiny snippets. A lot of "take back America" language. Similar in content, yet different in tone to what we heard from the Dems in the Bush Era.

342 leftover54  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:12:25pm

re: #335 Charles

Not in the least. Can you believe I'm actually an 'anit murder ? I hate murder but I wouldn't murder a murderer to make my point. Seriously, any one that commits pre meditated murder is crazy - not right/left, religious zealot etc., juts plain 'ol garden variety insane.YOU may see the difference but many others prefer to throw in my face that the right wing is typified by the actions of monsters like Tiller.I get sick of hearing it. This is a tragic story but one I can hand back to these a**hats the next time I'm tossed in with the Tiller types just because I supported W.
I did a search here 1st to see if someone had already lnked to this story - the word 'abortion' did not return anything related to this story in particular so I actually thought I was contributing to LGF. Guess not. In case I didn't make it clear enough - I do NOT support murdering ANYONE pro abortion and I'm feeling a bit more than offended by the implication. Guess I'll go back to my movie.

343 leftover54  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:16:08pm

re: #337 Slumbering Behemoth

WTF is going on here ?? I just pointed out a story I thought was might be of some interest and ...geeesus ...
Yes, he didn't like the fact that the guy carried a 'anti abortion' sign near a school !! WTF is so disingenuous about that ??? I provided the damn freakin link so everyone could read the story - its all there in the story WTF ???

344 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:17:28pm

re: #338 Arbalest

If you truly did vote for sanity in politics, maybe you'd be spending more time concerned about 2009 and what's going on now, instead of digging around in the dirt for evidence of lefties wearing mean tshirts in 2002-2006.

345 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:18:09pm

re: #342 leftover54

Think maybe it might be a good idea to wait until you have more details before assuming this was an ideologically-motivated killing?

346 leftover54  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:19:55pm

If the story was already 'out' here, why didn't the search term 'abortion' - used both 'comments' and the other (can't think of it) and the calendar thingy...nothing.
Sorry for 'sharing'.

347 Coracle  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:19:56pm

re: #69 shiplord kirel

Oh, for pity's sake.

Michelle Malkin is estimating the DC turnout at two million.

This by the way is a totally ludicrous estimate. One tenth that would be stretching it.

348 Pianobuff  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:21:41pm

re: #322 iceweasel

I'll take the analysis one further step and see what you think. I'll wager that some of the Lizards have what I would term "authentic" anger from time to time.

I'll give you a personal example. I saw the bubble coming a mile away (my wife is in early stage land development so it was pretty east to spot). So back in 2005/2006, it was clear where some of this was leading. Sure enough, things started falling apart. Fannie/Freddie, banks, etc. The day I hit my own personal emotional wall was last fall when Bush/Paulson were explaining the crisis, looking like a couple of stalked rabbits. I screamed a lot at the TV that day. I still have my doubts whether TARP as it was conceived and implemented was even the right thing to do, but we'll never know the answer to that one.

So we fast-forward, and for a fiscal conservative like myself, I am no more pleased at what is going on today. No surprise there, right? One might even say that, at times, I get angry. Fortunately, I'm not prone to massive emotional outbursts, but all the same we are emotional creatures, right? So think about it, Ice, the only organized external outlets for group emotional discharge related to these topics are things like teaparties, townhalls, etc. That rug seems to be pulled from under our feet. On to another point.

The words that are starting to sound like a broken record are that an emotional response to policy direction is "manufactured outrage". I'm not saying that there is none of that, by the way, I'm just suggesting that the "manufactured outrage" mantra is becoming an over-wrought term for some of us with more of a "classical liberal" inclination. Whether classical liberalism is the best system is a point for much debate, but that classical liberals are naturally going to find the course we are taking appalling (and have for some time) shouldn't be a really controversial point. Should it?

For those that have come to that worldview honestly, the situation is distressing. We genuinely don't like the direction the country is going in, we see the free market concept going through incremental dis-assembly through corporate welfare/subsidies and an increasingly intervening government. Would it be outrageous for a classical liberal to feel at times as if the pursuit for equality and liberty is not taking place with equal emphasis on both sides of the American coin? Again, I'm not talking about the last 8 months either. So what is the best way to talk about these things in a community like this, where, if not very carefully worded, statements like mine might sound like they are being spoken by an extremist (and maybe these words are also being taken that way although I would hope not)?

How can we express the extent of our disagreement without being assumed to be nuts or racists? How can we criticize without our sincerity be questioned as manufactured outrage?

Ice, these are rhetorical questions obviously. Part of the answer is that those who share my position just take care and heed. Say what you think is necessary, be honest about it but consider how your words will be heard. If the blog content no longer interests you, leave and don't be a dick on the way out. Probably the best thing is just to think "what would your mother say".

However, knowing what some of us have been going through is also useful for posters more inclined to your worldview. It's quite apparent that the flounce-rate on the right has been up, probably overdue in many cases. It would be a shame to see some of the more thoughtful posters flounce or disappear because at some point in the future they are feeling systematically provoked or mis-classified. The diversity of opinion here is one of the things that makes this blog unique, and it's worth both sides working hard to preserve that.

349 LudwigVanQuixote  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:23:05pm

I was ni a good mood, until I saw an innocent young girl holding a sign wanting our president berried along with another man who dedicated his life to America.

The indoctrination starts young. Too young.

350 yochanan  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:28:01pm

re: #55 Floral Giraffe

Linked at cough, drudge, cough is a Washington Post article that lists a LOT of really bad signs. No pictures, though...

funny how the washington post NEVER DID THIS AT A A.N.S.W.E.R. PROTEST.

IN FACT THEY NEVER MENTIONED ANY OF THEM

I LOOKED AT PHOTO'S OF THE EVENT AND YES THERE WERE SOME QUESTIONABLE SIGNS BUT THE VAST MAJORTY WERE FINE.

At any protest you will find nuts the mushy middle stays home.

351 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:29:23pm
352 Coracle  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:30:39pm

re: #350 yochanan

At any protest you will find nuts the mushy middle stays home.

One could take this to imply only the fringe shows up at protests. Clearly not true, from my own experience being there. I didn't see a whole lot of hate. I did see a whole lot of religious righteousness and a whole lot of ignorance, though.

353 ArchangelMichael  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:31:23pm

re: #351 Blastforth

The sign does not call for Obama's buriai, it calls for the burial of Obama's healthcare plan, with a guy who's already dead.

Everyone just needs to calm down a bit.

There is still this silly old thing called "Really Bad Taste" and this is it.

354 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:34:07pm
355 MJ  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:36:48pm

re: #331 placeholder

"...and I realize that just like with the whiny jews..."

Go screw yourself you antisemitic piece of crap.

356 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:37:59pm

re: #348 Pianobuff

I think those are awesome points, pianobuff, although I am (of course!) going to disagree with a couple.
First, of course there is legitimate fear, anger, anxiety, and criticisms of Obama on the right. That's not even a point of debate, in my opinion. And there's a lot of general fear, anger and anxiety for everyone now, because of the economic collapse.

Unfortunately, the two vehicles the right has so far come up with to harnass that rage are deeply flawed. The tea parties are kook filled, completely co-opted by and overrun by every kind of nut.
The health care townhall protests involve shills like FreedomWorks and the Heritage Foundation, both of which are in thrall to the insurance companies, knowingly disseminating lies and misinformation, engaging in fearmongering. That's why we have seniors on medicare shaking and crying that they don't want gov't run health care. They are genuinely afraid, and I despise the people who have made them that way -- people like Palin with her talk of death camps.

Meanwhile, the supposed leadership of the GOP, its elected officials, are sponsering bills about birth certificates and pandering to the nirthers.

The problem, as I see it, is that legitimate anger and anxiety is being manipulated and exploited. There is little concern for truth, but a commitment to a scorched earth policy: Fuck the Democrats and the Obama admin, block them at every turn, even if that means lying. About everything.

And so the legitimate anger is drowned in a rising tide of wingnut froth, and the legitimate criticisms never even get a hearing, because everyone is off and away on the latest faux scandal-- "ACORN involved in slave trade! Obama wants to kill your grandmother!" -- and this works to the detriment of the entire country, regardless of one's ideology.

The sane right has to take their party back. For all our sakes.

357 Arbalest  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:38:06pm

re: #344 iceweasel

“If you truly did vote for sanity in politics,”
and
“maybe you'd be spending more time concerned about 2009 and what's going on now, instead of digging around in the dirt for evidence of lefties wearing mean tshirts in 2002-2006. ”

Logical connection?

A logical refutation of my arguments would be a good place to start.

But more important is showing the tone of politics and demonstrations, as set by the Left over the past 10 years or so. Who on the left denounced the caricatures of Bush, and when did they do it? And to what extent? By their actions, or lack thereof, the Left has made many things legitimate that once were not.

Note that, while many of the Left do wear “mean tshirts”, many of them also do violence, and reasonably serious violence at that. As an example, think back to the 2008 Republican Convention. Many busts were made there: who was busted, and what were they planning? Look at what they had.

The Right seems to not be this way, at least not nearly to the same extent. How many acts of vandalism have occurred and how many arrests have been made at the Tea Party today?

This sort of comparison shows people the values of the sides involved.

358 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:41:23pm

re: #355 MJ

Missed that the first time around, thanks for pointing it out. This seems to have been one of those deceptive trolls, planting comments intended to discredit LGF.

359 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:42:21pm

re: #356 iceweasel

I despise the people who have made them that way -- people like Palin with her talk of death camps.

Panels. I was thinking of glenn beck also as i wrote that sentence. Brain running ahead of typing, going back and revising, even while I'm writing a sentence.
In my head I was simultaneously composing a sentence that also included an allusion to beck but it was already too long.
PIMF.

360 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:43:22pm

And it apparently had four other sock puppets registered.

361 ArchangelMichael  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:44:22pm

re: #358 Charles

Missed that the first time around, thanks for pointing it out. This seems to have been one of those deceptive trolls, planting comments intended to discredit LGF.

First Moby in a while?

362 leftover54  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:45:41pm

re: #345 Charles

I did read the story from several sources and the report initially (earlier today) was the shooter didn't like the fact that this guy did not like seeing this protester walking the sidewalks around this particular school specifically because the sign was 'anti- abortion'.I forgot about the story until I returned here this evening and was reminded of it due to this thread. I thought for sure there would be more here, updates etc., but found nothing. I went back through my 'History', found the murderers name, Googled for an AP story and posted it. I used the 1st line of the story for the link and typed what I thought would be 'understood' by those here that are regularly hear the same nonsense I put up with.I'm thought of as a
'right winger' and people seem to assume all sorts of things about me just because I supported W and the war.
If the initial reports were wrong, then I guess I'm wrong.
I had other obligations this afternoon and have been 'out of the loop' for several hours. I did notice a headline that he's since attempted suicide while in custody and that a potential 3rd victim has left town.

363 MJ  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:45:57pm

re: #360 Charles

And it apparently had four other sock puppets registered.

They come to the dead threads to do it. Disgusting.

364 yochanan  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:46:47pm

re: #356 iceweasel

death camps YEAH RIGHT.

365 Coracle  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:48:05pm

re: #363 MJ

They come to the dead threads to do it. Disgusting.

Would it be advisable to lock threads some set number of days in?

366 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:48:41pm

re: #364 yochanan

death camps YEAH RIGHT.

There have been crazy rumours on the right about FEMA camps, that they are for reeducation and internment.
There have also been statements about Obama 'death panels'.
I already explained my error upthread, btw.

367 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:50:25pm

re: #365 Coracle

Would it be advisable to lock threads some set number of days in?

Threads are closed after 7 days.

368 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:51:25pm

And sure enough, someone showed up in the next thread asking why that comment hadn't been deleted yet. Registered on the same day.

369 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:51:35pm

re: #357 Arbalest

“If you truly did vote for sanity in politics,”
and
“maybe you'd be spending more time concerned about 2009 and what's going on now, instead of digging around in the dirt for evidence of lefties wearing mean tshirts in 2002-2006. ”

Logical connection?

A logical refutation of my arguments would be a good place to start.

Uh, you're the one who posted an extended rant about photos of mean lefties at zombie's blog protesting bush. That would be the logical connection. The one you provided.
As for the refutation, that I already delivered.

370 Coracle  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:51:58pm

re: #367 Charles

Threads are closed after 7 days.

Ah! Thanks. One of the first threads I got involved in here trailed almost that long, and I hadn't realized it closed, so I kept checking it more than a week later. Live and learn!

371 MJ  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:53:04pm

re: #365 Coracle

Would it be advisable to lock threads some set number of days in?

I'm pretty sure Charles does close the thread after a while. I probably shouldn't have used "dead thread" since this one is still active but most everyone moved on to the next thread.
This guy was unusually sneaky though.

372 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:54:03pm

re: #363 MJ

They come to the dead threads to do it. Disgusting.

I totally missed that myself and I think I even updinged it. Either reading too fast or I mistook it for irony--or both. Now I'm sure people will claim that I'm an antisemite as well.

373 Coracle  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:56:18pm

re: #372 iceweasel

I totally missed that myself and I think I even updinged it. Either reading too fast or I mistook it for irony--or both. Now I'm sure people will claim that I'm an antisemite as well.

I read it as irony, too. I was thinking it was too obvious a slur. But then, we are swimming in the deep water, aren't we.

374 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:56:32pm

re: #368 Charles

And sure enough, someone showed up in the previous thread asking why that comment hadn't been deleted yet. Registered on the same day.

In the previous thread-- not the new thread, of course. Where it could actually be seen an acted on.

i suspect defenders of Spencer, McCain et al are pouring out of the woodwork and seeking screen shots they can gleefully post on blogs as 'evidence' that it's actually LGF that is the hotbed of racism and antisemitism-- not them.

375 Arbalest  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 6:58:38pm

re: #369 iceweasel

Uh, you're the one who posted an extended rant about photos of mean lefties at zombie's blog protesting bush. That would be the logical connection. The one you provided.

Obviously, no.

As for the refutation, that I already delivered.

Again, obviously, no. You merely evade.


Charles

You might find it useful to lock threads that are no longer on the main page, or after 2 days, whichever happens first.

376 MJ  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 7:01:23pm

re: #374 iceweasel

In the previous thread-- not the new thread, of course. Where it could actually be seen an acted on.

i suspect defenders of Spencer, McCain et al are pouring out of the woodwork and seeking screen shots they can gleefully post on blogs as 'evidence' that it's actually LGF that is the hotbed of racism and antisemitism-- not them.


Yup. As ArchangelMichael said above, they're Mobys. Used to happen a lot more, especially before there was registration.

377 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 7:03:00pm

re: #375 Arbalest

Again, obviously, no. You merely evade.

False. Evasion would be what you're doing. But there's only so much that can be done to provide truth to those who are determined not to see it, and explain the concepts of logical coherence and logical consistency to someone who has abandoned them.

378 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 7:09:26pm

re: #376 MJ

Yup. As ArchangelMichael said above, they're Mobys. Used to happen a lot more, especially before there was registration.

Crazy. Never encountered that before. Obviously going to be on the alert now. Good catch.

379 LudwigVanQuixote  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 7:13:26pm

re: #351 Blastforth

The sign does not call for Obama's buriai, it calls for the burial of Obama's healthcare plan, with a guy who's already dead.

Everyone just needs to calm down a bit.

It was utterly tasteless and utterly crass in all cases. If you want to get pedantic about that one sign then tell me what the coming unarmed on meant, or the Obama=Hitler stuff. Don't hand me that crap.

380 MJ  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 7:14:51pm

re: #378 iceweasel

Crazy. Never encountered that before. Obviously going to be on the alert now. Good catch.

I hadn't seen one around here for a long time. They would post some extremist comment and then post that comment at another site with the purpose of trying to discredit Charles and LGF. It was one of the reasons why Charles eventually had to go to registertation.

381 Arbalest  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 7:14:57pm

re: #377 iceweasel


“False. Evasion would be what you're doing.”

Wrong again.

If there’s a logical connection between “vote for sanity in politics” and “maybe you'd be spending more time concerned about 2009 and what's going on now, instead of digging around . . .” you haven’t shown one.

Hint: “vetting”

“But there's only so much that can be done to provide truth to those who are determined not to see it, and explain the concepts of logical coherence and logical consistency to someone who has abandoned them”

True. You do realize that very many people read LGF, even though they are not registered. Some of them will look, and read my words. Then they will look some more and read your words. It’s usually a good idea to write enough words in a post to be able to point back to it.

382 MJ  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 7:16:39pm

re: #380 MJ

Hit the wrong button- meant to use the spell checker:

re: #378 iceweasel

Crazy. Never encountered that before. Obviously going to be on the alert now. Good catch.

I hadn't seen one around here for a long time. They would post some extremist comment and then post that comment at another site with the purpose of trying to discredit Charles and LGF. It was one of the reasons why Charles eventually had to go to registration.

383 Pianobuff  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 7:20:34pm

re: #356 iceweasel

My two girls (Hermione - 7 year old chihuahua and Matisse - 3 year old Toy Manchester) want their daddy so I'm offline after this for a while.

I'm not sure we are all that far off on everything.

I think there is ample conservative criticism of the healthcare bill to be found simply looking at the healthcare bill and at Obama's speeches. There is plenty there for someone like me to object to without having to resort to hyperbole.

I could get into a back and forth with you on which side has more organizational oomph behind healthcare, but I think we'd both lay down a bunch of cards and, in the end, not agree. I'm willing to concede (and actually it's my view anyway) that special interests drive both parties far too much and whenever something big is on the table you can expect to see them all lined up at the trough. So on that, I think on that particular count both parties pretty much suck, have sucked for a long time, and will continue to suck as long as they are around. Not much of a cynic, am I?

At the end of the day, it's the real vacuum of leadership in the GOP that has enabled much of the madness. This is why marginal voices now get the mike. Nobody is really in charge. Here is my ongoing leadership test for GOP. When the GOP gets together to make some kind of joint statement putting the birth certificate crap to bed, that's when I'll know that they are starting to be serious about getting it together.

Many of them turned their backs on the principles of fiscal conservatism, and now (like an underdog team) are resorting to gimmick plays to regain credibility. Interestingly, McCain probably had some of the best statements about this in his acceptance speech at the convention last year, but I don't think R's were feeling very introspective at the time. As I've never been registered to a party, I probably don't have that undying devotion to a party, although I'd like to think I'm loyal to some principles.

On ACORN, I have a pretty low opinion of them, so we'll not agree on that I suspect.

One thing I have seen a little of, but personally would like to see more of, is loud Republican support for the policies in Afghanistan/Iraq/etc. I think it would lend more credibility to conservative objections on certain fronts if they were a bit more vocal about the decisions he has made that they do support. In the future, I wonder if there will be an Obama brand of triangulates around foreign policy rather than the others of the Clinton years.

Oh, well, like they say... politics ain't beanbag. I know I'd never be up for being a politician.

At any rate, it was nice chatting tonight.

Off to see the girls.

384 LudwigVanQuixote  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 7:22:28pm

I've decided after reading this thread, seeing these pictures, and then hearing from people stupid enough to actually try to make apologetics for this repugnant, stupid, hateful, evil behavior, that the only thing to do is make some mac and cheese, and go back to the lab. I simply can not deal with that much hateful stupidity in one night.

Here is a ring on the clue phone for some of the posters here.

1. Being this upset over healthcare reform in of itself is not showing the greatest sanity. If you oppose certain provisions, that is one thing. Getting up in arms about it though, well this is not exactly the end of the Republic. How about reasonable fact based debate.

2. If you think that for any reason it is cool or cute to paint out president as Hitler, you are an asshole. OK, just an asshole. Hitler was a genocidal mass murderer. He killed members of my family. He also was not so keen on black people. This is insulting, racist and wrong on so many levels I can hardly count, but not the least of them is utter crassness.

3. You think talking about how next time you will come armed is cute... OK. Guess what scumbag, if you ever do come armed to D.C. the police will happily shoot your semi-literate redneck ass, and I will eat popcorn.

4. We have a black president. Get over it you racist punks.

385 MJ  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 7:26:59pm

re: #384 LudwigVanQuixote

I've decided after reading this thread, seeing these pictures, and then hearing from people stupid enough to actually try to make apologetics for this repugnant, stupid, hateful, evil behavior, that the only thing to do is make some mac and cheese, and go back to the lab. I simply can not deal with that much hateful stupidity in one night.

Here is a ring on the clue phone for some of the posters here.

1. Being this upset over healthcare reform in of itself is not showing the greatest sanity. If you oppose certain provisions, that is one thing. Getting up in arms about it though, well this is not exactly the end of the Republic. How about reasonable fact based debate.

2. If you think that for any reason it is cool or cute to paint out president as Hitler, you are an asshole. OK, just an asshole. Hitler was a genocidal mass murderer. He killed members of my family. He also was not so keen on black people. This is insulting, racist and wrong on so many levels I can hardly count, but not the least of them is utter crassness.

3. You think talking about how next time you will come armed is cute... OK. Guess what scumbag, if you ever do come armed to D.C. the police will happily shoot your semi-literate redneck ass, and I will eat popcorn.

4. We have a black president. Get over it you racist punks.

Much of this Obama as Hitler meme is coming from Lyndon LaRouche:

Lyndon LaRouche, Holocaust Imagery & the Health Care Debate

[Link: www.adl.org...]

386 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 7:32:15pm
387 yochanan  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 7:34:59pm

re: #366 iceweasel

Freud would have called it a slip.

she was talking about rationed care and used more charged rhetoric to say that.

we ration care now and i am sure there are boards at hosp. to make those kind of choices.

there were 2 anti abortion activists murdered today wonder it that will be covered in the liberal media?

388 yochanan  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 7:38:17pm

re: #386 Blastforth

playing the 'race card' is bigotry too.

were the folks who disagreed with hillarycare sexist?

easy to find offending posters at any mass demo. I looked at the video coverage and looked at the posted photos here and you would think two different events happened.

it is called cherry picking.

389 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 7:39:12pm

re: #388 yochanan

If you're getting tired of having an LGF account, let me know. You got a second chance. You won't get a third.

390 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 7:49:39pm

re: #368 Charles

That comment appears to be a set-up from the dunces at the deuce.
Within 5 minutes of the now deleted comment being posted here, one of the dunces had enough time to post a lengthy comment crying antisemitism.

That is no coincidence, they are desperate.

391 Ms. MacIceweasel  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 7:54:46pm

re: #387 yochanan

Freud would have called it a slip.

she was talking about rationed care and used more charged rhetoric to say that.

we ration care now and i am sure there are boards at hosp. to make those kind of choices.

there were 2 anti abortion activists murdered today wonder it that will be covered in the liberal media?

Are you seriously suggesting that when I accidentally wrote 'death camp' instead of 'death panel', because I was thinking of both the Beck claims about Fema Camps and Palin's claims about death panels I was making a "freudian slip"?
Even though I had already corrected my slip and explained how it happened BEFORE you tried to make a mock issue out of it?

Asshole. And there's nothing Freudian about me calling you that.

392 Rich H  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 8:00:19pm

re: #121 MacDuff


The Presidential death allusions seem to have started with the Bush2 administration when signs depicting bullet holes and "Bushitler" became almost a staple in leftist protests.

Wow. My dyslexia is getting pretty bad. I thought the signs said "Bulshiter."

393 David  Sat, Sep 12, 2009 8:16:55pm

re: #40 iceweasel

Yes. There was a fabulous smackdown of the vile Anne Coulter over this by someone-- Coulter was saying that all Catholics should never support pro-choice candidates and that they should all be excommunicated if they did.

She was asked if she supported that stance when it came to the death penalty, since Catholics are also morally opposed to the death penalty.

She kept trying to claim that an anti-death penalty stance was not part of Catholic dogma.
There is no lie that woman won't tell. Completely shameless.

I have to correct you on this one. There is a qualitative difference betweeen the Catholic positions on abortion and the death penalty. Abortion is what is called an "intrinsic evil" - it is always and everywhere sinful, no matter what. Catholics are allowed to legitimately disagreee on war and the death penalty.

The Holy Father (as Cardinal Ratzinger) put it this way:

Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion.

While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment.

There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.

Ann Coulter was right in this instance.

394 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:58:23am

re: #154 iceweasel

You've brought up a good point, albeit inadvertantly. Telling Obama to go back to Kenya ALSO panders to the lunatic idea that he isn't American, and was not born here.

And if you still can't see why telling a black man to 'go back to Kenya" is RACIST, maybe you should check out the history of statements like that and actual proposals to 'send black people back to Africa' made by white supremacists, nationalists, and racists of all sorts.

You're delusional and living in denial, and I cannot understand why someone would be defending this sign or the idea that it isn't racist. It is.

I would also add that Jews countering anti-Israel protests have been told to 'go back to Russia', or 'go back to Germany'. I take that as racists as hell, and I certainly believe that 'go back to Kenya' is, likewise. It's also stupid.

395 jordash1212  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 4:42:13am

Jeeze this stuff is kinda scary.

396 David  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:46:54am

In Australia, we have a less precious attitude towards death. Chech out the "Eulogy Song" by the guys at The Chaser :

Youtube Video

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 Frank says:

Seeing a psychotherapist is not a crazy idea, it's just wanting a second opinion of one's life.