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Now they saw it — its newness, its raw crudeness, and its strength — and turned their shuddering eyes away. “Give us back our well-worn husk,” they said, “where we were so snug and comfortable.” And then they tried word magic. “Conditions are fundamentally sound,” they said — by which they meant to reassure themselves that nothing now was really changed, that things were as they always had been, and as they always would be, forever and ever, amen. But they were wrong. They did not know that you can’t go home again. America had come to the end of something and to the beginning of something else. But no one knew what that something else would be and out of the change and uncertainly and the wrongness of the leaders grew fear and desperation and before long hunger stalked the streets. Through it all there was still only one certainty, though no one saw it yet. America was still America, and whatever new thing came of it would be American.

Thomas Wolfe, “You Can’t Go Home Again”

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789 comments
1 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:22:06pm
America was still America, and whatever new thing came of it would be American.
2 BignJames  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:22:19pm

Can we catch a breather from the nutz for a while?

3 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:34:43pm

Well looky here:

We keep hearing that tea party organizers and participants can't really control the "handful" of nuts who show up at these events. Yet they had no trouble at all booting some ACORN ringers who showed up yesterday to sell "Don't Tread on Me" flags at the DC protest:

Don't Tread On Me! - Booting ACORN from 9/12 DC rally

4 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:34:53pm

God I love that book. Such an appropriate quote for what's happening right now too.

My other fave Wolfe quote from that book:

Perhaps this is our strange and haunting paradox in America—that we are fixed and certain only when we are in movement. At any rate, this is how it seemed to young George Webber, who was never so assured of his purpose as when he was going somewhere on a train. And he never had the sense of home so much as when he felt that he was going there. It was only when he got there that his homelessness began.

And another great quote, which I'm pulling from memory and probably fucking up: Ralph Waldo Emerson:

There are three wants in America which can never be satisfied: that of the rich wanting more, that of the sick wanting surcease, and that of the traveller, who says, "Anywhere but here."

5 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:43:17pm

re: #4 iceweasel

Perhaps this is our strange and haunting paradox in America—that we are fixed and certain only when we are in movement. At any rate, this is how it seemed to young George Webber, who was never so assured of his purpose as when he was going somewhere on a train. And he never had the sense of home so much as when he felt that he was going there. It was only when he got there that his homelessness began.

Great passage that seems to get to the heart of what America is really about.

6 Throbert McGee  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:47:11pm

I named my new rat "Ramona" because:

(A) Beverly Cleary is TOO COOL FOR SCHOOL!!!

(B) The Ramones did the music for Rock 'n' Roll High School, which featured an elaborate sight gag about the effect of rock music on lab rats.

(C) Because Mike Nesmith's song "Cruisin'," aka "Lucy and Ramona and Sunset Sam," has been lodged in my head since I rented Elephant Parts from the USO videotape club in Okinawa, way back in junior high school.

7 StudSupreme  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:47:39pm

It was the truly extreme folks from teh left wing that got Obama in rather than Hillary. They've shaped the Democratic party.
Perhaps there are some truly disgusting and foul elements involved with the tea party guys. But most of them are regular folks who simply aren't at all happy with our current government representatives. And I suspect they are the ones who will carry the day.
I'd say there is Change on the way that won't be to the liking of Obama and his supporters.

8 BignJames  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:51:25pm

re: #6 Throbert McGee

I lived on Okinawa...where'd you go to school?

9 Throbert McGee  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:53:35pm

I did sixth grade at Kadena Elementary, and grades 7 and 8 at Kadena HS. (Go Panthers!)

10 BignJames  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:55:09pm

re: #9 Throbert McGee

I did sixth grade at Kadena Elementary, and grades 7 and 8 at Kadena HS. (Go Panthers!)


I was at Naha...still had a base there back then.

11 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:56:06pm

Here's something I didn't see posted yesterday - Norman Borlaug, Nobel Prize recipient and father of the Green Revolution died yesterday at age 95. He pioneered breeding of high-yield wheat and rice and their distribution to third world countries. It's very difficult to find anyone whose work has impacted so many people worldwide; it isn't hyperbole to suggest that he saved hundreds of millions from starvation during his lifetime alone.

12 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:57:02pm

re: #11 SixDegrees

Charles has promised a memorial thread tomorrow...

13 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:00:37am

re: #7 StudSupreme

It was the truly extreme folks from teh left wing that got Obama in rather than Hillary. They've shaped the Democratic party.
Perhaps there are some truly disgusting and foul elements involved with the tea party guys. But most of them are regular folks who simply aren't at all happy with our current government representatives. And I suspect they are the ones who will carry the day.
I'd say there is Change on the way that won't be to the liking of Obama and his supporters.

It's the truly disgusting and foul elements who are organizing, running and promoting the Tea Parties. The "change" that's already upon us is the ascendancy of the Birchers, neo-Nazis and white supremacists who flock to Ron Paul like flies to shit. It's change that's not to any rational person's liking.

And it's already been pointed out that "there were just a few loons, but mostly ordinary folks" is a Ron Paul talking point being spread by his Internet swarms in the same way they glommed on to online polls. Congratulations on being a foot soldier for someone whose aim is to destroy the Republic.

14 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:00:57am

re: #12 Floral Giraffe

Charles has promised a memorial thread tomorrow...

Excellent - I missed that announcement.

15 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:02:18am

re: #3 Shiplord Kirel

Well looky here:

We keep hearing that tea party organizers and participants can't really control the "handful" of nuts who show up at these events. Yet they had no trouble at all booting some ACORN ringers who showed up yesterday to sell "Don't Tread on Me" flags at the DC protest:

Don't Tread On Me! - Booting ACORN from 9/12 DC rally

Another horrible display of human behavior. I don't know what the status of the alleged ACORN kid were but they were two young women and one young man in their teens. At one point Tim Jones calls the black kid "boy" and everyone is screaming things at them sounding like a more laid back version of Archie Bunker. Then some guy walk by holding a sign that said, "Atheists, communists, liberals, undesirables." Not sure about the last word. The guy that videotaped it is a bit of an oddball.

16 BignJames  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:03:43am

re: #9 Throbert McGee


It was usually fun to get a new kid in class...as long as you weren't the new kid. Got one named "Robert" in the 3rd grade...Teacher: "Robert, where are you from?" Robert: "America."...see I never figured out if "Robert" was really that dumb...or a wiseass.

17 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:03:58am

re: #7 StudSupreme

Perhaps there are some truly disgusting and foul elements involved with the tea party guys.

There is no "perhaps". There definitely are disgusting and foul elements ORGANIZING the tea parties.

18 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:04:06am

I read Look Homeward, Angel when I was sixteen and also some of his short stories. When I was seventeen I read You Can't go Home Again. It was not on the reading list but I couldn't resist. I did it for extra credit. One phrase that has stuck with me for lo these many years was, "stone, a leaf an unfound door". I have no idea where that is from.

19 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:05:24am

re: #5 Jimmah

Great passage that seems to get to the heart of what America is really about.

I think so.

Then there is this...

Comin agin to save the motherfuckin day yeah!

20 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:06:54am

re: #15 Gus 802

Another horrible display of human behavior. I don't know what the status of the alleged ACORN kid were but they were two young women and one young man in their teens. At one point Tim Jones calls the black kid "boy" and everyone is screaming things at them sounding like a more laid back version of Archie Bunker. Then some guy walk by holding a sign that said, "Atheists, communists, liberals, undesirables." Not sure about the last word. The guy that videotaped it is a bit of an oddball.

Whoa-- 'undesirables'? If that is right, that's straight out of Nazi ideology and babble about 'life unworthy of life'.

21 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:08:08am

re: #18 BatGuano

The Web and The Rock?

22 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:09:54am

re: #20 iceweasel

Whoa-- 'undesirables'? If that is right, that's straight out of Nazi ideology and babble about 'life unworthy of life'.

Not surprising - Ron Paul is behind most of this, and he's a huge fan of the neo-Nazis, as has been documented right here during the last campaign cycle when he got caught taking donations from them - and then refused to return them, claiming he could do better things with their money than they could. Or something.

23 BignJames  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:11:02am

re: #21 BatGuano

The Web and The Rock?


No, "The Sound of Music"..."stone, a leaf an unfound door, ray, a drop of golden sun,..."

24 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:12:42am

re: #22 SixDegrees

I woulda bought Israeli bonds with the neo-nazi's money...

/but then again, I'm not Luap Nor.

25 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:12:59am

re: #23 BignJames

Pack up your belongings and depart the premises.

26 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:13:49am

re: #20 iceweasel

Whoa-- 'undesirables'? If that is right, that's straight out of Nazi ideology and babble about 'life unworthy of life'.

It's right at 2:56. He was minding his own business though. The people haranguing these kids seemed off kilter. The guy that taped it called them "ACORN provocateurs." Right, provocateurs. Looked like a bunch of kids that wanted to make some money (i.e. practice capitalism) by selling Gadsden flags. Oh the irony. The last time I heard the word provocateurs was when I was doing some Democratic party volunteer work and ran into some old school crazy dude that was ranting something about "keep a lookout for Republican provocateurs!" I thought he was nuts.

Also, the guy that taped it is paranoid about the USA getting hit with a nuclear attack by the Russians. Some of his links:

# Disaster Shelters
# KI4U - Nukalerts & Preps
# Safecastle Food & Preps
# Gas Masks & Protective Suits
# Antibiotics Online
# Potassium Iodide
# Personal Security

27 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:15:38am

re: #18 BatGuano

I read Look Homeward, Angel when I was sixteen and also some of his short stories. When I was seventeen I read You Can't go Home Again. It was not on the reading list but I couldn't resist. I did it for extra credit. One phrase that has stuck with me for lo these many years was, "stone, a leaf an unfound door". I have no idea where that is from.

How are you, BatMan, bat o' my heart?

Someone sang this to me once. Kind of heartbreaking.

28 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:15:51am

re: #22 SixDegrees

Not surprising - Ron Paul is behind most of this, and he's a huge fan of the neo-Nazis, as has been documented right here during the last campaign cycle when he got caught taking donations from them - and then refused to return them, claiming he could do better things with their money than they could. Or something.

The paleo-cons are resurgent. Not good.

29 BignJames  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:15:54am

re: #25 BatGuano


Eliteist.

30 slokat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:17:12am

re: #17 Sharmuta

Which organization planned the DC event?

31 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:18:58am

G'Night, all.
Sleepy time is here for me!
Stay very very scaly!

32 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:19:29am

re: #26 Gus 802

Here's another video of the guy that taped it:

The Spirit Of Truth - The Real Deal - Part 1


The video is of my appearance on a public access community channel in Cambridge in March 1999 during which I share the prophetic vision of a future nuclear Apocalypse I experienced while studying long-waves of history at college. Also, the role of Russia's deception of the West and use of astrology is discussed. Finally, I touch upon Moscow's plan to replace Communism with Orthodox Christianity and how this represents the rise of the Antichrist!

Kook alert! He also believes in UFOs.

33 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:20:07am

Zionist entity? Those are the words used by radical Muslims to describe Israel.

34 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:20:17am

re: #24 Fenway_Nation

I woulda bought Israeli bonds with the neo-nazi's money...

/but then again, I'm not Luap Nor.

Heh. Or donated the money to the ADL.

The point remains, though, that Paul has been actively courting these odious fringe groups for years, and is now openly assembling them as the foundation of his next Presidential run.

35 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:20:26am

re: #31 Floral Giraffe

G'nite, prickly penguin!

36 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:21:59am

Oopsie. Wrong thread. Oh, well. I got about four hours of sleep but, I resorted to taking 2.5 mgs of Valium to get back to sleep.

37 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:22:06am

re: #31 Floral Giraffe

Good night, Floral!

38 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:22:25am

re: #28 Sharmuta

The paleo-cons are resurgent. Not good.

Not good at all. Paul and his minions have to be stopped before they drag the rest of the GOP down into the sewers.

We need another Goldwater, and fast.

39 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:22:26am

re: #33 MandyManners

Zionist entity? Those are the words used by radical Muslims to describe Israel.

Did you mean this for the thread downstairs? And why would we be surprised a friend of neo-nazis would use such a phrase?

40 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:25:30am

re: #27 iceweasel

One of McCartney's best. I got the album for Christmas when I 13 and played the hell out of it. Still have it, by the way.And the photos.

41 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:26:37am

re: #39 Sharmuta

I heard neo-nazis use that phrase before I heard the Islamonazis use it.

Wonder if they ever formally met. I heard David Duke fetched a fairly hefty speaker's fee to going to some conferences or univisities in Dubai.

42 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:26:43am

re: #39 Sharmuta

Did you mean this for the thread downstairs? And why would we be surprised a friend of neo-nazis would use such a phrase?

I'm no surprised at all.

I wonder what White's connections are to BNP and the rest.

What's the name of the Lefty who took on the AIPAC in his book?

43 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:27:01am

re: #30 slokat

Do you lack google?

44 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:28:04am

re: #42 MandyManners

I'm no surprised at all.

I wonder what White's connections are to BNP and the rest.

What's the name of the Lefty who took on the AIPAC in his book?

Mearsheimer and Walt.

45 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:29:01am

re: #43 Sharmuta

Do you lack google?

His google-fu is weak. :(

46 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:29:59am

re: #41 Fenway_Nation

I heard neo-nazis use that phrase before I heard the Islamonazis use it.

Wonder if they ever formally met. I heard David Duke fetched a fairly hefty speaker's fee to going to some conferences or univisities in Dubai.

There's a lot of ideological overlap. They seem to figger they can use each other to accomplish their common ends, then kill each other to settle the Final Score.

47 slokat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:30:44am

re: #43 Sharmuta

No - why, are you unsure of the answer?

48 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:33:25am

re: #46 SixDegrees

There's a lot of ideological overlap. They seem to figger they can use each other to accomplish their common ends, then kill each other to settle the Final Score.

Kind of like the extremist PMD christians who only support Israel because they think its existence will hasten the EndTimes- it fulfills some of their prophecies.

49 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:33:54am

Mearsheimer at LGF.


[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

50 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:34:19am

Ash - Shining Light

You have always been a thorn in their side
But to me you're a shining light

51 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:34:20am

re: #47 slokat

No - why, are you unsure of the answer?

Actually, the organizers of these events have been extensively detailed right here on this blog. Start downstairs in any of the several threads on the topic and you'll find that Ronulans and Birchers are the driving force behind them right now, aided by even less pleasant abettors.

Charles' comments while listening to the event (on CSPAN?) is particularly revealing, as a parade of speakers associated with the Ron Paul campaign take the stand in succession.

From there, you can easily search out further connections for yourself. But it's all laid out right in front of you right on the front page.

52 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:36:21am

Smiths-- There is a Light That Never Goes Out

53 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:37:15am

Viacom has taken down the YouTube video of Kanye West storming the stage at the VMA, grabbing the mike out of Swift's hand pitching a hissy about Beyonce.

54 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:38:27am

re: #40 BatGuano

Crap! I just realized you weren't even born when the white album was released.

55 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:38:47am

re: #47 slokat

No - why, are you unsure of the answer?

No, I'm not. But you are, and you can look into it if you want. I'm busy digging up more dirt on the bigoted RS McCain at the moment- I'll be posting it downstairs shortly.

56 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:39:52am

{Sharmuta}

57 AuntAcid  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:40:35am

“You Can’t Go Home Again”?

sure you can, but someone will have changed the locks.

58 slokat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:41:49am

re: #51 SixDegrees

That will be news to the group that paid for most of the organizing.

...Dick Armey might want to explain to Steve Forbes where his money went.

59 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:42:35am

re: #54 BatGuano

I meant to respond to Iceweasal's #27

60 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:43:51am

I have to say, I was overcome with this odd combination of nostalgia and some sort of disconnect watching Pedro Martinez throw eight whole innings and 130 pitches of shutout baseball tonight...in a Phillies uniform.

I'll always remember him as a Red Sox (Red Sock?), and the good lord willing, I hope he's enshrined in Cooperstown with a crimson olde-english 'B' on his cap.

62 AuntAcid  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:44:03am

re: #53 MandyManners

Viacom has taken down the YouTube video of Kanye West storming the stage at the VMA, grabbing the mike out of Swift's hand pitching a hissy about Beyonce.

It is still here...[Link: rds.yahoo.com...]

63 BignJames  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:45:51am

re: #60 Fenway_Nation


Did it rain?...seems like it rained his last 2 starts.

64 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:48:20am

re: #60 Fenway_Nation

A bunch of games that got rained out earlier this weekend were made up today as part of a doubleheader, including the Mets/Phillies.

Funny how some of Pedro's more memorable pitching gems take place in cramped little bandboxes that hitters love like Fenway or Citicizen's Bank Ballpark...

65 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:50:40am

Here's Kanye. Fucking cad.

[Link: www.popeater.com...]

66 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:51:59am

re: #62 AuntAcid

It is still here...[Link: rds.yahoo.com...]

A lot of sentiment is that Kanye was just doing what he does, i.e., make an ass of himself. But, I don't think he'll skate on this. MTV executives must be furious.

67 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:52:11am

{BatGuano}

68 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:52:17am

re: #57 AuntAcid

“You Can’t Go Home Again”?

sure you can, but someone will have changed the locks.

Lucianne Williams: Changed the Locks. live



I changed the lock on my front door so you can't see me anymore
And you can't come inside my house, and you can't lie down on my couch
I changed the lock on my front door

I changed the number on my phone so you can't call me up at home
And you can't say those things to me that make me fall down on my knees
I changed the number on my phone

I changed the kind of car I drive so you can't see me when I go by
And you can't chase me up the street, and you can't knock me off of my feet
I changed the kind of car I drive

I changed the kind of clothes I wear so you can't see me anywhere
And you can't spot me in a crowd, and you can't call my name out loud
I changed the kind of clothes I wear

I changed the tracks underneath the train so you can't find me again
And you can't trace my path, and you can't hear my laugh
I changed the tracks underneath the train

Tom Petty covered this, IIRC.

69 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:52:29am

re: #65 MandyManners

Here's Kanye. Fucking cad.

[Link: www.popeater.com...]

Kanye West is a fucking douchebag.

70 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:55:20am

Mazzy Star - Roseblood

71 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:55:50am

Wsa this the MTV Music awards where Kanye was acting up? I have to say that they take a distant 6,329,042nd to watching baseball on TV, listening to football on the radio, going out for a hike, buying groceries, watching Ice Road Truckers re-runs or clipping my toenails...

72 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:57:25am

re: #69 Cannadian Club Akbar

Kanye West is a fucking douchebag.

I take it you're not his No. 1 Fan.

73 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:57:44am

re: #66 MandyManners

It was worse than i heard on the news, driving home.

74 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:57:52am

re: #71 Fenway_Nation

Wsa this the MTV Music awards where Kanye was acting up? I have to say that they take a distant 6,329,042nd to watching baseball on TV, listening to football on the radio, going out for a hike, buying groceries, watching Ice Road Truckers re-runs or clipping my toenails...

VideoMusicAwards by MTV.

75 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:58:15am

re: #69 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yeah, what you said.

76 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:58:52am

re: #73 BatGuano

It was worse than i heard on the news, driving home.

It takes a lot to gast my flabber nowadays but, he did mine.

77 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:00:31am

Beyonce sure was a class act, though.

78 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:02:16am

re: #77 MandyManners

I saw part of Beyonce's performance: My wife hit me on the back of head.

79 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:02:19am

re: #76 MandyManners

It takes a lot to gast my flabber nowadays but, he did mine.

I have always hated those people who are "Look at me, look at me." I bet ya this, if he were to go out for a pizza he would cry about the paparazzi.

80 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:02:46am

This likely will only help Swift.



Has a country music video ever won that category?

81 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:03:47am

Excerpt from Eisenhower's farewell speech:

We pray that peoples of all faiths, all races, all nations, may have their great human needs satisfied; that those now denied opportunity shall come to enjoy it to the full; that all who yearn for freedom may experience its spiritual blessings; that those who have freedom will understand, also, its heavy responsibilities; that all who are insensitive to the needs of others will learn charity; that the scourges of poverty, disease and ignorance will be made to disappear from the earth, and that, in the goodness of time, all peoples will come to live together in a peace guaranteed by the binding force of mutual respect and love.

82 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:05:49am

re: #78 BatGuano

I saw part of Beyonce's performance: My wife hit me on the back of head.

That's what you get for saying you'd like to audit her assets.

83 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:06:33am

re: #79 Cannadian Club Akbar

I have always hated those people who are "Look at me, look at me." I bet ya this, if he were to go out for a pizza he would cry about the paparazzi.

I hope there are fewer fewer photographers soon.

84 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:06:36am

re: #69 Cannadian Club Akbar

Kanye West is a fucking douchebag.

And he likes fish sticks.

85 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:06:57am

The Valium has kicked in. See you Lizards in the morning.

86 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:07:37am

re: #85 MandyManners

Good night, Mandy.

87 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:07:40am

re: #85 MandyManners

G'nite Mandy!

88 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:07:43am

re: #65 MandyManners

Kanye West is a douche, for so many reasons.

Beyonce, however, is a classy woman.

89 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:08:37am

re: #84 Throbert McGee

And he likes fish sticks.

In his mouth.

90 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:14:55am

My comment on the Bucs yesterday. Didn't rain and Romo threw for 350+ yards.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

91 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:15:04am

Good night, Mandy!

92 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:16:41am

re: #70 Jimmah

Mazzy Star, covering Wild Horses

93 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:17:22am

re: #90 Cannadian Club Akbar

None of the games mattered to me today. As far as I'm concerned, the real football season begins tomorrow night.

94 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:18:03am

"If fascism ever came to the United States, it would be wrapped in an American flag."
- Huey Long

95 freetoken  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:18:43am

re: #81 Gus 802

Eisenhower is known as "the last good Republican" in some circles.

96 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:19:06am

re: #94 Salamantis

"If fascism ever came to the United States, it would be wrapped in an American flag."
- Huey Long

Of course it would, insofar as nationalism is an essential part of fascism.

97 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:19:06am

re: #93 Fenway_Nation

None of the games mattered to me today. As far as I'm concerned, the real football season begins tomorrow night.

College games were great this weekend and many down-to-the-wire NFL games. Good weekend. Should be a good Monday night as well.

98 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:19:19am

re: #92 iceweasel

Ponies are pretty.

99 Syrah  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:19:19am

re: #83 MandyManners

I hope there are fewer fewer photographers soon.

There are now more then ever.

It used to be an oddity to wonder around with a camera day in and day out.

It was such an oddity that people would notice someone with a camera.

Nowadays, cameras are so ubiquitous that they go almost entirely unnoticed.

Everyone has one.

More pictures are being taken now then in anytime in history.

Most cellphones are also digital cameras.

Privacy, at least the expectation of privacy, is now dead.

100 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:20:10am

re: #96 iceweasel

Of course it would, insofar as nationalism is an essential part of fascism.

Just as much as internationalism is an essential part of communism.

101 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:20:56am

re: #98 BatGuano

Yes, I'm just trying to stir up some hate.

102 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:21:18am

re: #97 Cannadian Club Akbar

I had a feeling the Chippewas would pull it off against Michigan State, even tho' I'm more familiar w/Central Michigan as a hockey school.

I just know that the Spartans seem to never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

103 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:21:24am

re: #98 BatGuano

Ponies are pretty.

James Wright, A Blessing

Just off the Highway to Rochester, Minnesota
Twilight bounds softly forth on the grass.
And the eyes of those two Indian ponies
Darken with kindness.
They have come gladly out of the willows
To welcome my friend and me.
We step over the barbed wire into the pasture
Where they have been grazing all day, alone.
They ripple tensely, they can hardly contain their happiness
That we have come.
They bow shyly as wet swans. They love each other.
There is no loneliness like theirs.
At home once more,
They begin munching the young tufts of spring in the darkness.
I would like to hold the slenderer one in my arms,
For she has walked over to me
And nuzzled my left hand.
She is black and white,
Her mane falls wild on her forehead,
And the light breeze moves me to caress her long ear
That is delicate as the skin over a girl's wrist.
Suddenly I realize
That if I stepped out of my body I would break
Into blossom.

104 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:22:25am

re: #100 Salamantis

Just as much as internationalism is an essential part of communism.

Uh...ponies are pretty!

105 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:23:23am

re: #98 BatGuano

Ponies are pretty.

But the shit in the house.

106 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:23:26am

"I AM NOT A GAY FISH!"

-Kanye West (sort of)

107 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:24:42am

re: #105 Cannadian Club Akbar

There must be a pony in there somewhere- RWR

108 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:24:52am

Can I carry ANYTHING on me to protect myself in CA?

109 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:25:35am

re: #108 TheMatrix31

Can I carry ANYTHING on me to protect myself in CA?

Tough gun laws?

110 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:26:40am

re: #109 Cannadian Club Akbar

Tough gun laws?

Has to be...its CA.

111 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:27:06am

re: #108 TheMatrix31

A crystal. A magic crystal.

112 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:27:37am

re: #110 TheMatrix31

Has to be...its CA.

I hear the gangs have guns, join one of those.
/Just move to Texas or Florida

113 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:27:56am

Almost Quiet
by Salamantis

...faint susurrations of half-breath wind...
...a single call from a whippoorwill hen...
...clock softly ticking upon the shelf...
...a lone cricket chirping to itself...
...bare branches creaking conversation...
...a few dry leaves rustling affirmation...
...a crispy pop from a shattered ember...
...a drone from the fridge...and I remember...
...how full with flowers bare deserts may bloom...
...like blossoming sounds in a silent room...

114 Syrah  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:28:20am

re: #108 TheMatrix31

Can I carry ANYTHING on me to protect myself in CA?

Only an open hand.

115 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:28:37am

re: #112 Cannadian Club Akbar

I hear the gangs have guns, join one of those.
/Just move to Texas or Florida

I would kill to move to Texas, you know that lol.

But I got into a massive argument/confrontation/thing today with two people and one of them got my address and shit, threatened me, yada yada

116 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:28:48am

re: #108 TheMatrix31

I think the thing in California is that Concealed weapon permits are issued at the discresion of each county...but once issued, they're honored by all the other counties in the state.

Your best bet is probably to try and get a permit somewhere rural like Modoc or Placer county.

117 BignJames  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:29:26am

re: #109 Cannadian Club Akbar


Bucs did ok yesterday...just needed some more points. Unlike the Panthers...and Jake the flake Delhomme...I think he's thrown 8 picks in his last 2 games.

118 Syrah  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:30:22am

re: #115 TheMatrix31

I would kill to move to Texas, you know that lol.

But I got into a massive argument/confrontation/thing today with two people and one of them got my address and shit, threatened me, yada yada

Now if you were to file a restraining order first. . .

119 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:30:37am

re: #114 Syrah

Only an open hand.

Ugh. I hate this place.

120 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:31:00am

re: #117 BignJames

Anybody catch the end of that Cincinnati/Denver game?

121 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:31:22am

re: #118 Syrah

Now if you were to file a restraining order first. . .

That would just protect me from him, and not any of his friends that he would send to damage property or do something, right?

122 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:31:32am

re: #120 Fenway_Nation

UN-believable.

123 freetoken  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:31:50am

re: #99 Syrah

Nowadays, cameras are so ubiquitous that they go almost entirely unnoticed.

That depends upon size...

124 Syrah  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:32:16am

re: #119 TheMatrix31

Ugh. I hate this place.

Get good grades.

Finish school.

Move away.

California is big, but the rest of the country is bigger.

125 BignJames  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:32:58am

re: #120 Fenway_Nation


Read a pretty funny article about it...poor Bengals.

126 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:33:49am

re: #125 BignJames

Read a pretty funny article about it...poor Bengals.

FOX pre game made fun of Ocho Cinco.

127 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:34:32am

re: #111 BatGuano

A crystal. A magic crystal.

But then you'll have Skeksises chasing you hither and yon, so that's no good either, hhmmmm-MMMMMM-mmmmmm-mmm-mmm?

128 BignJames  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:35:20am

re: #126 Cannadian Club Akbar

FOX pre game made fun of Ocho Cinco.


That's just overkill.

129 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:35:20am

re: #124 Syrah

Except for the unemployment numbers...they're pretty big in California.

/teensy-weensy in the Midwest.

130 Syrah  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:35:47am

re: #123 freetoken

That depends upon size...

Yes, size matters.

I have an old wooden version.

It is a mighty pretty machine.

I used to shoot with a pentax 6x9 and a mamiya 645. Lovely fat negatives. Wonderful.

Now, they are relics of another age.

131 AuntAcid  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:36:03am

re: #68 iceweasel

If I were in charge for a day, I'd ban those big mics to the studio. How annoying to watch some one sing and not see their mouth.

132 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:37:04am

re: #124 Syrah

Get good grades.

Finish school.

Move away.

California is big, but the rest of the country is bigger.

Hell yeah. But I'm worried about any headache this guy will cause. I mean, he's pretty much a puss, but you never know.

133 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:37:46am

re: #92 iceweasel

Mazzy Star, covering Wild Horses

Lovely! New song from Hope Sandoval and her new group The Warm Inventions:

134 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:38:36am

Autumn Evening
by Salamantis

Keening birds flit through fireleaf falls
Flowing toward catfish a-dimpling
Their pebbly rings in a geode pool
Of shadow-mossed and polished violet.
Faltering mold-breeze, sunset-awed
Chills yet the breath and fingertips
As indigo clouds' furred bellies burn
And a dim crescent crowns the newborn night

135 Syrah  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:39:11am

re: #121 TheMatrix31

That would just protect me from him, and not any of his friends that he would send to damage property or do something, right?

If that is a concern, then you really should get one.

The restraining order will not physically protect you or your stuff, but if you have to take those yahoos to court, it can be an ugly bludgeon that will make them wish they never ran across your path.

136 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:40:39am

re: #131 AuntAcid

If I were in charge for a day, I'd ban those big mics to the studio. How annoying to watch some one sing and not see their mouth.

More They Might Be Giants!

If I wasn't shy...

If I wasn't shy
If I wasn't shy

I'd burn all the uniforms
I'd burn all the "Ask Me" buttons
I'd burn all the intercoms
I'd burn all the time clock cards

If I wasn't shy
If I wasn't shy

I'd steal somebody's Cadillac
I'd steal anything I lack
I'd steal all the microphones
From all the masters of ceremony

137 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:40:49am

re: #127 Throbert McGee

I think that is only happens with dark crystals.

138 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:42:14am

re: #58 slokat

That will be news to the group that paid for most of the organizing.

...Dick Armey might want to explain to Steve Forbes where his money went.

You do realize that Dick Armey has his tongue down Orly Taitz's throat, right? I hope you're not holding him up as an example of virtue.

139 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:42:18am

In Florida, if you were out for a walk and someone approached you with a knife, you had to make an attempt to get away before defending yourself. Not any more.

140 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:44:09am

re: #134 Salamantis

Autumn Evening
by Salamantis

Keening birds flit through fireleaf falls
Flowing toward catfish a-dimpling
Their pebbly rings in a geode pool
Of shadow-mossed and polished violet.
Faltering mold-breeze, sunset-awed
Chills yet the breath and fingertips
As indigo clouds' furred bellies burn
And a dim crescent crowns the newborn night

Poe-- Ulalume

The skies they were ashen and sober;
The leaves they were crisped and sere --
The leaves they were withering and sere;
It was night in the lonesome October
Of my most immemorial year:
It was hard by the dim lake of Auber,
In the misty mid region of Weir: --

Something in your rhythms and adjectives reminded me of that...It's a compliment! ;)

141 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:44:11am

re: #137 Slumbering Behemoth


Folgers crystals?

142 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:44:41am

The Flight
by Salamantis

We’re all enwrapped in spacetime stuff
By universe contained
Entrapped in frail small bodies
By finitude constrained.
In butterflylike beauty
Our brief winged lives flit by
And we die not understanding it
Or if there’s reason why.
But while we live we swanlike soar
In Icarus’ blinding light
Brave moths bewitched by phoenix dreams
No gloom could ever blight.
And when the darkness closes in
And sunset end’s life’s day
We dare to hope we’re just cocooned
To fly another way.

143 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:45:05am

re: #141 Fenway_Nation

Folgers crystals?

We have come to this restaurant and replaced...

144 freetoken  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:46:05am

re: #130 Syrah

Some of us still use the old things...

There is an allure to the old film cameras that keeps them popular. Many (of the field cameras) have hit bottom price-wise and now command more money than digital cameras. Of the roll film cameras, the 645 format can be had pretty cheaply these days, but many classic 6x6, 6x7, and larger are keeping their values.

I prefer large pieces of film.

145 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:48:07am

Thanx for the compliment, weezy!

I'm trying to amuse the night shift with a few short poems of mine.

I hope that they prove to be a pleasure rather than an annoyance.

146 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:48:56am

I can't believe they stopped making Kodachrome.

147 BignJames  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:50:00am

re: #146 Fenway_Nation


I blame Paul Simon.

148 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:51:37am

re: #135 Syrah

If that is a concern, then you really should get one.

The restraining order will not physically protect you or your stuff, but if you have to take those yahoos to court, it can be an ugly bludgeon that will make them wish they never ran across your path.

If I do that...he'll most certainly be served a notice of such, right?

149 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:52:02am

re: #147 BignJames


Yeah- well...what don't you blame Paul Simon for?

150 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:52:27am

HAHH! *snort* heh

Robot Chicken is a pretty mixed bag, IMO, but their rap version of The Dark Crystal is priceless:

Thanks, Slumbering Behemoth -- I'd never seen that!

151 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:53:00am

re: #144 freetoken

Some of us still use the old things...

There is an allure to the old film cameras that keeps them popular. Many (of the field cameras) have hit bottom price-wise and now command more money than digital cameras. Of the roll film cameras, the 645 format can be had pretty cheaply these days, but many classic 6x6, 6x7, and larger are keeping their values.

I prefer large pieces of film.

I recently had the pleasure of working with some extremely high resolution scans of old newspaper photos from the 1930s, when 4x5 was the favored format. The level of detail is almost unbelievable - you can just keep enlarging and enlarging and enlarging forever. I easily blew one up to 20 x 24, with no sign of grain whatsoever. A cityscape easily resolves things as tiny as window signs blocks away from the camera, even street signs in some cases.

And the photographers weren't just point and shoot junkies, either. When you're working with expensive film that takes considerable time to set up, expose and develop, you make sure every shot counts. There is no sign of shake in any of these - even in a couple taken from airplanes. And the composition is outstanding, as well - no cropping necessary in most cases.

152 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:54:05am

re: #143 Cannadian Club Akbar

We have come to this restaurant and replaced...

Yeah, you gotta be careful with that.

153 freetoken  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:54:24am

re: #146 Fenway_Nation

I can't believe they stopped making Kodachrome.

It could only be processed one place in the world, since it uses different chemistry than the much more popular E-6 slide film.

Some of the diehards tried to keep it going by becoming evangelists for the stuff... but it was not enough.

154 Syrah  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:54:40am

re: #144 freetoken

Some of us still use the old things...

There is an allure to the old film cameras that keeps them popular. Many (of the field cameras) have hit bottom price-wise and now command more money than digital cameras. Of the roll film cameras, the 645 format can be had pretty cheaply these days, but many classic 6x6, 6x7, and larger are keeping their values.

I prefer large pieces of film.

Me too. Large negatives are very nice to work with. Working with 35mm was less pleasant.

I see that I misspoke. I have a Pentax 6X7. I have used some old box-cameras that produced 6x9 negatives. Unfortunately, box-camera lenses are not that impressive.

My field camera is a display antique. The bellows are very old, friable and torn. I don't think I want to repair it at this point.

155 Syrah  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:56:36am

re: #148 TheMatrix31

If I do that...he'll most certainly be served a notice of such, right?

Yes.

You described a bully. The shock of being served alone may persuade him to leave you well enough alone.

You choose the battlefield grasshopper. Always.

156 freetoken  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:57:09am

re: #154 Syrah


My field camera is a display antique. The bellows are very old, friable and torn. I don't think I want to repair it at this point.

There are a couple of small companies that make replacement bellows. One used to be called Western Bellows; I don't know if they are still in business.

I too have a Pentax 67 - I'm looking to sell it. What it does it does well, though I have no use for it these days.

157 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:57:40am

re: #153 freetoken

It could only be processed one place in the world, since it uses different chemistry than the much more popular E-6 slide film.

Some of the diehards tried to keep it going by becoming evangelists for the stuff... but it was not enough.

That single source processing (there used to be two plants, but the other closed a long time ago) was one of Kodachrome's great strengths - after you'd been shooting it for a while, you knew exactly how your slides would come out, because the processing was dead-on consistent every single time. Ektachrome processing, on the other hand, varied tremendously from lab to lab, and even within a single lab since many of them were not run to high standards.

I used to shoot nothing but Kodachrome 25 years ago. You just couldn't beat the color saturation or the lack of grain with anything.

158 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:58:42am

re: #150 Throbert McGee

I don't have cable, so all of the Robot Chicken stuff I know of is filtered through the interwebs.

159 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:59:23am

re: #155 Syrah

Yes.

You described a bully. The shock of being served alone may persuade him to leave you well enough alone.

You choose the battlefield grasshopper. Always.

I wonder if it covers his friends too.

160 Syrah  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:59:37am

re: #156 freetoken

There are a couple of small companies that make replacement bellows. One used to be called Western Bellows; I don't know if they are still in business.

I too have a Pentax 67 - I'm looking to sell it. What it does it does well, though I have no use for it these days.

I may have to sell mine too.

Its been years since I have used it. Its a wonderful machine.

It will be hard to part with all the same.

161 Syrah  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:02:50am

re: #159 TheMatrix31

I wonder if it covers his friends too.

Everybody gets one of their very own. (check with your county. your laws may very.)

Start with the bully first.

Did he make verbal threats?

162 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:05:26am

re: #161 Syrah

Everybody gets one of their very own. (check with your county. your laws may very.)

Start with the bully first.

Did he make verbal threats?

Yeah, online he said "I'm coming for you...(expletive that is used to describe homosexuals)", a couple times. He also said some stuff to me through texts, as well as a couple of more vague threats to my friends about me when they refused to give up my info.

163 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:06:59am

re: #144 freetoken

I once played around with some Kodak Technical Pan in my old Retina I camera. They were some of the most amazing negatives I ever made.

164 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:07:27am

re: #145 Salamantis

Love em, Sal! :)

165 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:07:48am

G'nite Lizards.

166 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:08:12am

re: #162 TheMatrix31

Save them. Print them out. Take them when you get restraining order. Don't repond to him via computer or text.

167 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:09:58am

Shitmydadsays

You don't know shit, and you're not shit. Don't take that the wrong way, that was meant to cheer you up."

168 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:10:21am

re: #142 Salamantis

The Flight
by Salamantis.

High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;

Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds...and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of...wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,

I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue

I've topped the windswept heights with easy grace

Where never lark, or even eagle flew.

And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

169 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:10:32am

I ♥ shitmydadsays.

170 Syrah  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:11:20am

re: #162 TheMatrix31

Yeah, online he said "I'm coming for you...(expletive that is used to describe homosexuals)", a couple times. He also said some stuff to me through texts, as well as a couple of more vague threats to my friends about me when they refused to give up my info.

You may have enough for more than just a restraining order.

You may want to go to your county clerk tomorrow. Bring copies of those emails. Be sure to mention the homophobic threats. (don't wait.)

Bullies like that will keep pushing till they get slapped down. (or locked up.)

You may not have much of an option here. Don't be a victim. Use the law. It is there to protect you from his type.

171 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:11:21am

Jim Carroll died. He wrote "Basketball Diaries." 60

172 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:12:19am

Matrix, Are you left handed or right handed?re: #165 Slumbering Behemoth

G'night SB.

173 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:14:27am

re: #172 BatGuano

Oh, Fuck! two posts in one. You guys figure it out. I'm trying to post and eat an ice cream drumstick at the same time.

174 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:16:01am

re: #173 BatGuano

Oh, Fuck! two posts in one. You guys figure it out. I'm trying to post and eat an ice cream drumstick at the same time.

Regular drumstick or the Super drumstick?

175 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:16:32am

re: #173 BatGuano

Oh, Fuck! two posts in one. You guys figure it out. I'm trying to post and eat an ice cream drumstick at the same time.

What is an ice cream drumstick?

176 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:16:58am

re: #175 iceweasel

What is an ice cream drumstick?

WHAT!!!

177 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:17:22am

re: #173 BatGuano

Oh, Fuck! two posts in one. You guys figure it out. I'm trying to post and eat an ice cream drumstick at the same time.

I'm right handed lol.

re: #170 Syrah

You may have enough for more than just a restraining order.

You may want to go to your county clerk tomorrow. Bring copies of those emails. Be sure to mention the homophobic threats. (don't wait.)

Bullies like that will keep pushing till they get slapped down. (or locked up.)

You may not have much of an option here. Don't be a victim. Use the law. It is there to protect you from his type.

Yeah, I have a couple texts in my phone. I have a screenshot of the threat over the Facebook status. I don't have a screenshot over my personal Facebook inbox, but I can if I need to. I don't have PROOF of the FULL exchange over Facebook (which prompted the lashing) since my buddy took it down, but I do have it saved in my conversation logs with other people.

Simply put, my buddy put as his Facebook status "God Bless America, 9/11 never forget, Our freedoms will never be taken away" yada yada, and this asshole responds "What freedoms, bro?"...and it went alll downhill from there.

178 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:18:07am

re: #174 Cannadian Club Akbar

Regular. It's vanilla caramel. I'm typing with one finger and a thumb.I'm versatile that way.:)

179 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:18:24am

re: #175 iceweasel

Just...*shakes head*...just go already. Pack up your things and get the hell out...

180 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:18:47am

Since this has gotten over 68 million views on YouTube, I'll bet it's been posted on LGF before, but it's new to me:

Harry Potter and friends as Punch&Judy-ish hand puppets, doing an homage to an old Sesame Street sketch. Voldemort's take on "Lollipop, Lollipop" at the end pretty much knocked me on my ass.

It came up randomly as a "related video" when I looked at one of my own YouTube creations, "A Gay Cylon Has a Message for HAL 9000":

181 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:20:03am

re: #179 Fenway_Nation

Yeah, sad...

182 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:20:03am

re: #175 iceweasel

What is an ice cream drumstick?


[Link: www.drumstick.com...]

183 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:21:39am

re: #182 Cannadian Club Akbar

Canadian Club, You magnificent son of a bitch! That's what I have all over my chin!

184 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:21:59am

re: #175 iceweasel

What is an ice cream drumstick?

Google Image Search is worth a thousand words...

185 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:21:59am

re: #181 BatGuano

Next she'll probably want to know what an ice cream taco is.

I'm very disappointed in you, ice...

186 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:22:42am

re: #182 Cannadian Club Akbar

[Link: www.drumstick.com...]

Wow. That looks amazing...

I've seen these ok? Just never had one. And didn't know that was what they were called.

I had some icecream a couple of months ago, but it was the first ice cream I'd had in years. I don't know why. :(

187 Syrah  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:22:57am

re: #177 TheMatrix31

Yeah, I have a couple texts in my phone. I have a screenshot of the threat over the Facebook status. I don't have a screenshot over my personal Facebook inbox, but I can if I need to. I don't have PROOF of the FULL exchange over Facebook (which prompted the lashing) since my buddy took it down, but I do have it saved in my conversation logs with other people.

Simply put, my buddy put as his Facebook status "God Bless America, 9/11 never forget, Our freedoms will never be taken away" yada yada, and this asshole responds "What freedoms, bro?"...and it went alll downhill from there.

Take your friend with you when you see the county clerk. But if he won't go with you, you still go on your own. Take everything that you have that is related. Printouts of the screen shots. Burn them to a cd for the clerk incase they want a copy.

Go loaded for bear.

Make sure that you focus on the threats, not on the web conversation. It is the threats and the stalking that you should make your case with.

188 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:24:00am

re: #177 TheMatrix31

Yeah, I have a couple texts in my phone. I have a screenshot of the threat over the Facebook status. I don't have a screenshot over my personal Facebook inbox, but I can if I need to. I don't have PROOF of the FULL exchange over Facebook (which prompted the lashing) since my buddy took it down, but I do have it saved in my conversation logs with other people.

Simply put, my buddy put as his Facebook status "God Bless America, 9/11 never forget, Our freedoms will never be taken away" yada yada, and this asshole responds "What freedoms, bro?"...and it went alll downhill from there.

Was looking through the FBI site and the indicate that for internet harassment you contact the FBI local office.

[Link: www.usdoj.gov...]

[Link: www.fbi.gov...]

189 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:24:10am

re: #185 Fenway_Nation

Next she'll probably want to know what an ice cream taco is.

I'm very disappointed in you, ice...

There are things called ice cream tacos? I could google, but I didn't want to deprive you of the chance to mock me.

190 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:24:46am

re: #183 BatGuano

Canadian Club, You magnificent son of a bitch! That's what I have all over my chin!

At my 7-11 we have Super Drumsticks. Twice the size with vanilla/choco ice cream. Haven't seen 6 packs at the store, though.

191 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:26:17am

re: #177 TheMatrix31

Y'know...this isn't exactly winning me over on the whole social-networking webpages thing-ey.

192 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:26:40am

re: #189 iceweasel

There are things called ice cream tacos? I could google, but I didn't want to deprive you of the chance to mock me.

Have you ever had fried ice cream?

193 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:26:45am

re: #190 Cannadian Club Akbar

I be lookin' into that.

194 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:28:35am

re: #180 Throbert McGee

Gay Cylons are related to Harry Potter? Who knew?

195 BignJames  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:29:16am

drumsticks?...pffft

196 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:30:36am

re: #192 Cannadian Club Akbar

Have you ever had fried ice cream?

Nope. Though I know fried Mars Bars are quite a thing in Scotland and the UK...

(Mars Bars in UK = milky way US)

197 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:31:22am

re: #195 BignJames

drumsticks?...pffft

nope...
Image: comm_pt_moose-tracks_l.jpg

198 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:32:39am

re: #196 iceweasel

You can find fried ice cream in mexican or Tex-Mex restaurants. Yummy.

199 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:33:42am

re: #197 Cannadian Club Akbar

nope...
[Link: www.turkeyhill.com...]

[Link: www.benjerry.com...]

200 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:34:52am

Well lizards...time for me to get some shuteye.

Be sure to play nice...ish...

201 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:35:07am

re: #198 Cannadian Club Akbar

You can find fried ice cream in mexican or Tex-Mex restaurants. Yummy.

Cool, will try. Though I love mexican and tx-mex food so much that there is rarely room for dessert. That and the margaritas!

202 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:35:42am

FWIW, I worked at a place where we made our own ice cream. I still do.
Really easy.

203 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:35:52am

Thanks for the help guys.

Fenway, it's not an indictment on Facebook or social networking. This altercation would have happened in person if I saw him in person.

204 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:35:57am

re: #194 Sharmuta

Gay Cylons are related to Harry Potter? Who knew?

I'm a little perplexed as to why this came up as a "related" video. Here are the tags I used for that Gay Cylon clip:

cylon homosexual "battlestar galactica" "kier dullea" "hal 9000" "gay robot" humor vocoder

And here's the description:

Mr. Cylon reveals the name of the first human male who ever made him feel -- you know -- all TINGLY between the legs, and sternly warns other sentient machine intelligences not to mess with "Dave"

No obvious connections to Harry Potter or puppetry...

205 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:36:22am

re: #202 Cannadian Club Akbar

FWIW, I worked at a place where we made our own ice cream. I still do.
Really easy.

He also has my work info, that asshole.

206 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:37:13am

re: #188 Gus 802

Was looking through the FBI site and the indicate that for internet harassment you contact the FBI local office.

[Link: www.usdoj.gov...]

[Link: www.fbi.gov...]

Even if that harrassment came from off the internet as well?

207 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:37:24am

re: #205 TheMatrix31

He also has my work info, that asshole.

The police will respond quickly if he fucks with you at work. Trust me.

208 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:39:19am

re: #206 TheMatrix31

Even if that harrassment came from off the internet as well?

That's what it said, internet harassment, so I assume so. Give them a call and see what they say. Couldn't hurt. It's also mentioned in the steps to follow for internet harassment found here:

[Link: www.ehow.com...]

209 Syrah  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:42:43am

Time for me to turn in for the night.

I posted something in the links section concerning the effects of social networks that I think has broader implications then the "health" focus of the article.

It does not directly cover the darker negative sides of the online social networks that Matrix has run into.

It mostly relates to how people respond to each other and affect each other in person to person relationships.

Goodnight all.

210 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:42:49am

re: #204 Throbert McGee

No obvious connections to Harry Potter or puppetry...

Fanfic, Throbert. Slash.

211 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:43:19am

Good Morning LGF

212 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:43:45am

Good Morning Lizards!

213 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:43:57am

re: #204 Throbert McGee

kier dullea

I don't know, Throbert. Sounds like some kind of unforgivable curse like Avada Kedavra to me. ;)

214 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:44:35am

re: #209 Syrah

Time for me to turn in for the night.

I posted something in the links section concerning the effects of social networks that I think has broader implications then the "health" focus of the article.

It does not directly cover the darker negative sides of the online social networks that Matrix has run into.

It mostly relates to how people respond to each other and affect each other in person to person relationships.

Goodnight all.

Good night, thanks for all your help :)

215 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:46:55am

I find it very sad that the good idea of the tea parties has been co-opted by the kooks. That really sucks IMHO.

216 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:48:05am

re: #177 TheMatrix31

Matrix, you know I think of you as my bastard son and I would never steer you wrong. Right? When one of those troglodytes gets in your face, put your left foot forward, put your weight on your right foot and pivot on the ball of your right foot inward and and the same time swing your hip forward followed by your right shoulder and at last your arm and fist. Aim for the nose or chin.

Glad I could help. Or you could follow more rational advice.:)

Seriously, I hope everything turns out alright.

217 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:49:18am

Goodnight folks.

Matrix, give those people a call later on and good luck.

Later

218 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:50:51am

re: #210 iceweasel

Fanfic, Throbert. Slash.

Sure, a human could make a connection between Gay Cylons and Harry Potter via "slash fanfic," but I assume that the "related videos" feature on YouTube is generated by a machine using some peculiar algorithm. (One of the other "related videos" was the Spanish vocal group Mocedades performing "Eres tú" for the 1973 Eurovision contest.)

219 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:51:40am

re: #217 Gus 802

Good night, Gus.

220 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:51:52am

re: #215 rwdflynavy

I find it very sad that the good idea of the tea parties has been co-opted by the kooks. That really sucks IMHO.

And politicians, being politicians, join in whoring for votes. I guess integrity gets lost when elected.

221 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:53:41am

re: #216 BatGuano

Matrix, you know I think of you as my bastard son and I would never steer you wrong. Right? When one of those troglodytes gets in your face, put your left foot forward, put your weight on your right foot and pivot on the ball of your right foot inward and and the same time swing your hip forward followed by your right shoulder and at last your arm and fist. Aim for the nose or chin.

Glad I could help. Or you could follow more rational advice.:)

Seriously, I hope everything turns out alright.

Hell yeah. My older bro was about ready to SLAUGHTER this kid. We've known him since our days in Fresno. I didn't know I knew him though. We were reintroduced a couple of years ago.

The guy went after my dead sister, and equivocated that death with the "embarrasment and pain caused to his three sisters" that came from the professional porno scene that he was involved in, that he accused ME of spreading around. He said "I'll go easy on you, because God already punished you years ago for what you've done to me and my family by taking an innocent life away from yours."

re: #217 Gus 802

Thanks dude. GN.

222 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:55:32am

re: #218 Throbert McGee

Sure, a human could make a connection between Gay Cylons and Harry Potter via "slash fanfic," but I assume that the "related videos" feature on YouTube is generated by a machine using some peculiar algorithm. (One of the other "related videos" was the Spanish vocal group Mocedades performing "Eres tú" for the 1973 Eurovision contest.)

No, seriously-- there would be a google algorithm pulling out all potential slash stuff. Also, because of vidding.

certain things will get grouped together because of users' search patterns. It's a blind algorithm-- no one is looking at the results and filtering.

Is that voca group all male? Young? They probably have some slash or vidding or something about them.

223 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:55:55am

re: #221 TheMatrix31

With those words, he deserves an ass kicking.

224 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:56:09am

re: #215 rwdflynavy

I find it very sad that the good idea of the tea parties has been co-opted by the kooks. That really sucks IMHO.

They were started by the kooks:

Paulians have been staging “tea party” demonstrations for years

225 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 2:57:10am

re: #223 Cannadian Club Akbar

Unbelievable.

226 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:00:42am

re: #221 TheMatrix31

Matrix, I apologize for making light of the circumstances. I didn't understand. But i do hope everything turns out alright for you.

227 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:02:12am

Matrix- that's some fucked up shit. Stay safe.

228 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:03:51am

re: #226 BatGuano

Matrix, I apologize for making light of the circumstances. I didn't understand. But i do hope everything turns out alright for you.

No dude, don't be sorry at all. The conversation over the Facebook status started out related to the country, I blasted him bigtime, some other asshole (some guy who used to be my best friend but ended up going out with my ex a couple months after the breakup, pathological liar literally, bigtime psychological issues) responds, so I blast THAT guy bigtime, then he responds then the first guy responds, then the first guy starts making threats, especially after somehow coming across my phone number, address, workplace, yada yada.

Started out country-related, ended up personal. Really personal.

229 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:09:42am

re: #221 TheMatrix31

the "embarrasment and pain caused to his three sisters" that came from the professional porno scene that he was involved in, that he accused ME of spreading around.

Okay, so he had a pre-existing grudge against you because he believes that you "outed" him to his family about the fact that he's done professional porn, and then it flared up again after he picked a fight with your buddy on Facebook? Just making sure I'm caught up.

230 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:09:49am

As a kid my favourite ice cream bar was the simple yet yummy Ice Cream Sandwich, which was a rectangular slab of plain vanilla ice cream between 2 soft chocolate wafers.

231 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:10:27am

re: #224 Sharmuta

They were started by the kooks:

Paulians have been staging “tea party” demonstrations for years

I understand that. That's why I said the "good idea" of tea parties.

232 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:10:33am

re: #230 Spare O'Lake

Mmmm.

233 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:12:13am

re: #230 Spare O'Lake

I worked for a guy who was poor growing up and didn't have a fudge bar until he was 11 or 12. But ate steak every night. His dad was a beef farmer.

234 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:14:32am

re: #229 Throbert McGee

Okay, so he had a pre-existing grudge against you because he believes that you "outed" him to his family about the fact that he's done professional porn, and then it flared up again after he picked a fight with your buddy on Facebook? Just making sure I'm caught up.

We both had problems with each other. He was a jerkwad to his roommates when they roomed together in college, always when I went down there to visit he was a total dick, we got into political convos before and he once said that our soldiers "arent heroes, theyre murderers". A month later we ran into each other at the Facebook-status-guy's birthday outing, I leaned in to give him the "bro hug handshake" (which I normally wouldnt have done, but my other friends did so I didnt want to cause a scene), but he didn't reciprocate.

Then we found out about the porn (which btw, he failed SPECTACULARLY in, premature ejac and the whole bit), I shared it with my closest friends. Whatever, that got big because everyone hates this kid to begin with.

Then the 9/11 status thing comes up. At first it was country-related, then I blast him about insulting everything about this country while throwing a lot of obscenities insults (I didn't want to, I wanted to attack his statements reasonably, then I realized that I simply had to nuke him, it was like the US and Saddam's repeated UN-resolution neglections).

I really wish I could post the whole thing on LGF.

235 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:14:48am

re: #228 TheMatrix31

No dude, don't be sorry at all. The conversation over the Facebook status started out related to the country, I blasted him bigtime, some other asshole (some guy who used to be my best friend but ended up going out with my ex a couple months after the breakup, pathological liar literally, bigtime psychological issues) responds, so I blast THAT guy bigtime, then he responds then the first guy responds, then the first guy starts making threats, especially after somehow coming across my phone number, address, workplace, yada yada.

Started out country-related, ended up personal. Really personal.

I sure wouldn't be discussing a real life threat on line.

236 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:16:38am

re: #235 Spare O'Lake

That's why I'm being somewhat vague and neglecting specifics.

237 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:16:59am

re: #236 TheMatrix31

Although I guess a couple posts up refute that :-/

238 BatGuano  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:18:11am

I am invoking the Iron Fist rule before it is actually necessary which is a good time to do it.
Good night, everyone.

239 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:18:43am

re: #238 BatGuano

Good night, BG.

240 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:18:44am

re: #234 TheMatrix31

Start referring to him as "Dirk Diggler."

241 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:20:24am

re: #238 BatGuano

Later, Bat.

242 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:27:10am

re: #234 TheMatrix31

Then we found out about the porn (which btw, he failed SPECTACULARLY in, premature ejac and the whole bit), I shared it with my closest friends. Whatever, that got big because everyone hates this kid to begin with.

Then the 9/11 status thing comes up. At first it was country-related, then I blast him about insulting everything about this country while throwing a lot of obscenities insults (I didn't want to, I wanted to attack his statements reasonably, then I realized that I simply had to nuke him...).

Mmmmokay. To quote myself from mere hours ago on another thread:

Mary, please desist from being such a freakin' Drama Queen.

243 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:29:59am

re: #242 Throbert McGee

Only did that because there's no arguing rationally/logically with people like him. Dude was talking about how we have no freedoms here, how everything's a lie from the government and media, how this, how that...your typical nonsensical conspiratorial-style BS.

244 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:36:09am

re: #243 TheMatrix31

You just don't believe him because you have been breathing the Chem Trails.
///

245 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:37:51am

re: #244 Cannadian Club Akbar

You just don't believe him because you have been breathing the Chem Trails.
///

I dont think I would have gone off the rails like I did if he wasn't spewing that shit on 9/11, on a 9/11 memorial status update.

246 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:43:43am

re: #245 TheMatrix31

I dont think I would have gone off the rails like I did if he wasn't spewing that shit on 9/11, on a 9/11 memorial status update.

Well, ya can't fix stupid. He will prove the need for Darwin Awards I am sure.

247 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:49:44am

Matrix, he may well have deserved it, but there are better ways to respond to such BS than by unleashing an avalanche of obscenities, which will only confirm in his mind that the Powerful Truth he was speaking really got under your skin and left you incoherent.

And -- forgive me if it sounds like I'm talking down to you, but there's really no other way to say it -- it comes across as very childish and petty to bring up the fact that he "failed spectacularly" in his attempt to be a pr0n star. Maybe he really was awful*, but it's totally irrelevant to the current argument you're having with him, so mentioning it just to take another jab at him makes you look bad.

*though having done ONE professional "all male video" myself, I can tell you that while it's admittedly not as difficult as, say, neurosurgery, it's also not quite as easy as one might think, and that's all I'm sayin'...

248 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:52:03am

re: #245 TheMatrix31

I dont think I would have gone off the rails like I did if he wasn't spewing that shit on 9/11, on a 9/11 memorial status update.

Ah -- well, that DOES make a difference. I would've probably lost my temper, too.

249 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 3:53:11am

re: #247 Throbert McGee

I understand man. I didn't say he failed spectacular. I was going off about the freedoms this country affords, and among so many other things, soldiers died to preserve the right for "you to make a terrible porno, jizz in your hand prematurely, cheat on your girlfriend, and STILL collect a check for it because that's the way the system works."

250 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:04:41am

re: #230 Spare O'Lake

As a kid my favourite ice cream bar was the simple yet yummy Ice Cream Sandwich, which was a rectangular slab of plain vanilla ice cream between 2 soft chocolate wafers.

Quite. A conservative dessert.

251 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:16:43am

What in the heck are y'all talking about. How do I jump in. Anybody got coffee?

252 freetoken  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:16:51am

Note: At 4am Pacific, the lead story (entitled "Under the Gadsden Flag: Conservatives Rock the Capitol") on Pajamas Media is by none other than...

Robert Stacy McCain

Is Roger L. Simon giving Charles the middle finger, so to speak?

253 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:23:55am

re: #252 freetoken

Some woman being interviewed on my radio was trying to push the 1 million plus marchers bullshit.

254 Dar ul Harbarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:28:34am

Global Warming good news:

German ships successfully make "Arctic Passage"

The Northern Sea Route trims 4,000 nautical miles off the usual 11,000-mile journey via the Suez Canal, which Beluga has said would yield substantial savings in fuel costs and reductions in CO2 emissions.

Of course, if they reduce CO2 emissions it might ice over again.

Just think how much less drama there would be in the world if the Suez canal wasn't needed.

255 freetoken  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:32:27am

re: #253 Cannadian Club Akbar

Could it be the same woman to whom RSM is linking to in his PJM piece? She also is claiming the million figure.

256 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:33:14am

re: #254 Dar ul Harbarian

Egypt gubment needs the money.[Link: lexicorient.com...]

257 freetoken  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:34:05am

I suspect there will be some real "winners" in the comments to the RSM PJM article.

258 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:35:31am

re: #255 freetoken

Could it be the same woman to whom RSM is linking to in his PJM piece? She also is claiming the million figure.

The site for the radio station hasn't updated their site yet and I walked away from the interview. There will be a link soon.

259 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:39:51am

re: #255 freetoken

Could it be the same woman to whom RSM is linking to in his PJM piece? She also is claiming the million figure.

PJM is relentlessly flogging vastly inflated attendance figures. The strategy seems to be to get as many web references to these figures out there as possible in order to flood search engines with them.

I have yet to see a single such estimate with anything approaching credible sourcing. Many of them are coming straight out of the comments section of PJM and being treated as authoritative.

It's exactly the same strategy used by International ANSWER to inflate antiwar protest figures. Except that IA used to routinely multiply by factors of 5 to 8, while PJM seems to be using multipliers of 20 to 30.

260 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:45:33am

Whose numbers are considered official?

261 freetoken  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:45:58am

re: #259 SixDegrees

Yeah... reading the RSM piece on PJM, and thinking about it some more... it is as if RLS let RSM write a piece that just happens to touch on many points Charles was trying to make yesterday... either that, or Charles can read the future...

262 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:46:26am

re: #259 SixDegrees

PJM is relentlessly flogging vastly inflated attendance figures. The strategy seems to be to get as many web references to these figures out there as possible in order to flood search engines with them.

I have yet to see a single such estimate with anything approaching credible sourcing. Many of them are coming straight out of the comments section of PJM and being treated as authoritative.

It's exactly the same strategy used by International ANSWER to inflate antiwar protest figures. Except that IA used to routinely multiply by factors of 5 to 8, while PJM seems to be using multipliers of 20 to 30.

PJM sucks. No real surprise...

263 freetoken  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:47:08am

re: #260 MandyManners

I guess since the end gathering was on a National Park (or is the Mall a National Monument?) then the National Park Service is responsible for any official documentation.

264 freetoken  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:48:49am

Anyone want to volunteer to go over to PJM and add a comment, asking RSM why his posts at FR were pulled?

265 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:51:11am

re: #264 freetoken

Anyone want to volunteer to go over to PJM and add a comment, asking RSM why his posts at FR were pulled?

I'll do it. I'm feelin ornery. Link?

266 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:51:28am

What will happen if these Republicans/conservatives suddenly wake up and see the nature of those with whom they're associating? Who will be there to help them pick up the pieces and reorganize? Moderates are famous for not organizing and promoting things unlike fanatics.

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

267 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:52:46am

re: #266 MandyManners

What will happen if these Republicans/conservatives suddenly wake up and see the nature of those with whom they're associating? Who will be there to help them pick up the pieces and reorganize? Moderates are famous for not organizing and promoting things unlike fanatics.

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

And the centre cannot hold!

I'd give triple updings if I could, for your post and the Yeats quote.

268 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:53:00am

re: #266 MandyManners

What will happen if these Republicans/conservatives suddenly wake up and see the nature of those with whom they're associating? Who will be there to help them pick up the pieces and reorganize? Moderates are famous for not organizing and promoting things unlike fanatics.

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

And this, really, is the biggest problem. We _need_ a leader in the Party, someone who can recognize the madness AND successfully reach out and gather up the moderates who are basically sitting and waiting for their Party to come back to them.

269 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:53:26am

re: #265 iceweasel

I'll do it. I'm feelin ornery. Link?

Color me shocked.
/

270 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:54:30am

re: #269 Cannadian Club Akbar

Color me shocked.
/

Colour! damn you.

/ ;)

271 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:58:16am

re: #263 freetoken

I guess since the end gathering was on a National Park (or is the Mall a National Monument?) then the National Park Service is responsible for any official documentation.

I don't know. Here's the USPP mission statement:

We, the United States Park Police, support and further the mission and goals of the Department of the Interior and the National Park Service by providing quality law enforcement to safeguard lives, protect our national treasures and symbols of democracy, and preserve the natural and cultural resources entrusted to us.


[Link: www.nps.gov...]

272 freetoken  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:58:47am

re: #265 iceweasel

Just go to PJM. It is their lead/top article.

273 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:59:16am

re: #267 iceweasel

And the centre cannot hold!

I'd give triple updings if I could, for your post and the Yeats quote.

Well, I believe the center can hold. There are more of us than there are of them. And, many of us got guns and guts.

274 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 4:59:56am

re: #268 thedopefishlives

And this, really, is the biggest problem. We _need_ a leader in the Party, someone who can recognize the madness AND successfully reach out and gather up the moderates who are basically sitting and waiting for their Party to come back to them.

Who's sitting this out right now?

275 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:01:12am

re: #274 MandyManners

Who's sitting this out right now?

I don't mean "sitting this out" as in sitting on the sidelines, pouting, and waiting for someone else to do something. I mean it more like, moderates don't tend to have the drive to organize themselves and do what needs to be done to bring sanity back to the Republican Party.

276 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:02:06am

re: #273 MandyManners

Well, I believe the center can hold.

Oh, I agree, MM. I was just referring back to your own Yeats reference:

TURNING and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Wasn't making any kind of political point there...

277 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:04:50am

re: #275 thedopefishlives

I don't mean "sitting this out" as in sitting on the sidelines, pouting, and waiting for someone else to do something. I mean it more like, moderates don't tend to have the drive to organize themselves and do what needs to be done to bring sanity back to the Republican Party.

That's exactly what I mean.

278 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:05:56am

re: #276 iceweasel

Wasn't making any kind of political point there...

I was.

279 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:06:20am

re: #277 MandyManners

That's exactly what I mean.

Uhh, MandyManners for President 2012?

:-P

You see my point.

280 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:06:24am

I wish ACORN would sue Fox. Open up those books. Shine in some light.

281 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:07:15am

re: #279 thedopefishlives

Uhh, MandyManners for President 2012?

:-P

You see my point.

I have enough skeletons in my closet to keep an anatomy class in stock for a long time.

282 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:07:32am

re: #280 MandyManners

I wish ACORN would sue Fox. Open up those books. Shine in some light.

They are threatrning to sue the guy filming them. He said to bring it on.

283 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:07:53am

I'm gonna' gather up my ACORN links today and put them in a readibly accessible format.

284 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:08:13am

ROVE'S IN DA HOUSE!

285 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:08:40am

re: #282 Cannadian Club Akbar

They are threatrning to sue the guy filming them. He said to bring it on.


[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

286 VioletTiger  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:08:50am

re: #282 Cannadian Club Akbar

They are threatrning to sue the guy filming them. He said to bring it on.

They won't. I think they know there may be a lot more coming and they want to prevent it.
There's a third film now.
Wonder what is next.

287 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:09:38am

re: #281 MandyManners

So has every other President that's been elected in the last 20 years or so.

288 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:10:51am
289 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:12:27am

re: #251 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What in the heck are y'all talking about. How do I jump in. Anybody got coffee?


Mornin FBV,

Sumatra blend on the counter, help yourself. We are re-rehashing the Tea-party and there is some discussion of pron failure.

290 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:12:36am
291 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:12:40am

re: #288 taxfreekiller

"Money Quote" from the new, New York City, A.C.O.R.N. ,vid.
by the Pimp and the Hooker from Big Goverment .com

"Honesty ain't gonna get you the house"

Thanks, TFK...
[Link: biggovernment.com...]

292 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:14:19am

re: #286 VioletTiger

Found it. Didn't know there was a new one. Thanks,

293 VioletTiger  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:14:34am

re: #290 taxfreekiller

A.C.O.R.N.

"hon" you go out and get you some ID's
two or three ID's.

ID should say 'Performance Artist'.

294 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:15:09am

re: #287 thedopefishlives

So has every other President that's been elected in the last 20 years or so.

Not like mine.

295 VioletTiger  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:15:09am

re: #292 Cannadian Club Akbar

Found it. Didn't know there was a new one. Thanks,

Hide your money in a coffee can in the yard!

296 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:15:47am
297 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:15:57am

re: #278 MandyManners

I was.


Whatever.

298 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:15:57am

re: #294 MandyManners

Regardless, you see my point. What's there for us moderates to rally around? We don't have a candidate to work with, and even the most politically savvy among us can't rally around thin air.

299 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:18:58am

re: #298 thedopefishlives

Regardless, you see my point. What's there for us moderates to rally around? We don't have a candidate to work with, and even the most politically savvy among us can't rally around thin air.

A conservative from the northern mid-west could carry there and the south.

300 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:20:19am

re: #299 Cannadian Club Akbar

A conservative from the northern mid-west could carry there and the south.

Trust me, if I thought I could survive the rigors of national politics, I'd step up and run for President myself if it came down to it.

301 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:20:21am

re: #272 freetoken

Just go to PJM. It is their lead/top article.

Done, but they have moderation on it seems, and there is no way it will get through, I suspect.

302 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:21:41am

re: #300 thedopefishlives

Trust me, if I thought I could survive the rigors of national politics, I'd step up and run for President myself if it came down to it.

Me, too, but see Mandy's #281.

303 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:22:10am

How two groups treated embezzlement in their ranks.

Acorn chose to treat the embezzlement of nearly $1 million eight years ago as an internal matter and did not even notify its board. After Points of Light noticed financial irregularities in early June, it took less than a month for management to alert federal prosecutors, although group officials say they have no clear idea yet what the financial impact may be.

A whistle-blower forced Acorn to disclose the embezzlement, which involved the brother of the organization’s founder, Wade Rathke.

The brother, Dale Rathke, embezzled nearly $1 million from Acorn and affiliated charitable organizations in 1999 and 2000, Acorn officials said, but a small group of executives decided to keep the information from almost all of the group’s board members and not to alert law enforcement.

Dale Rathke remained on Acorn’s payroll until a month ago, when disclosure of his theft by foundations and other donors forced the organization to dismiss him.

“We thought it best at the time to protect the organization, as well as to get the funds back into the organization, to deal with it in-house,” said Maude Hurd, president of Acorn. “It was a judgment call at the time, and looking back, people can agree or disagree with it, but we did what we thought was right.”

The amount Dale Rathke embezzled, $948,607.50, was carried as a loan on the books of Citizens Consulting Inc., which provides bookkeeping, accounting and other financial management services to Acorn and many of its affiliated entities.

Wade Rathke said the organization had signed a restitution agreement with his brother in which his family agreed to repay the amount embezzled in exchange for confidentiality.

Wade Rathke stepped down as Acorn’s chief organizer on June 2, the same day his brother left, but he remains chief organizer for Acorn International L.L.C.

SNIP

304 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:23:18am

In short, ACORN tried to hide a crime.

305 VioletTiger  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:23:43am

re: #303 MandyManners

How can they get away with treating a major crime 'internally'. It staggers the imagination.

306 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:24:08am

re: #305 VioletTiger

How can they get away with treating a major crime 'internally'. It staggers the imagination.

Hope and Change.

307 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:25:34am

Eeks. Gotta' git.

308 VioletTiger  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:25:36am

re: #306 rwdflynavy

Hope and Change.

I hope they don't get any more of our change.

309 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:25:42am
310 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:25:54am

re: #304 MandyManners

In short, ACORN tried to hide a crime.

ACORN was one of the victims of that embezzlement, according to your own link, and they are the ones who disclosed it.

311 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:27:21am

re: #310 iceweasel

ACORN was one of the victims of that embezzlement, according to your own link, and they are the ones who disclosed it.

According to the link they didn't disclose it, a whistle blower did. They are rotten through and through.

312 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:27:56am

re: #308 VioletTiger

I hope they don't get any more of our change.

In the military we have a saying: Hope is not a course of action.

313 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:28:14am

re: #310 iceweasel

ACORN was one of the victims of that embezzlement, according to your own link, and they are the ones who disclosed it.

A whistle-blower forced Acorn to disclose the embezzlement, which involved the brother of the organization’s founder, Wade Rathke

Forced.

314 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:30:10am

re: #311 rwdflynavy

According to the link they didn't disclose it, a whistle blower did. They are rotten through and through.

Disclosed it...to them.

BTW, ACORN also tipped off the FBI back in 2008 about suspected voter registration fraud on the part of some workers.

ACORN is a crappy organisation, sloppily run. But they aren't the evil nefarious machine that the wingnut conspiracy fringe would have us believe, either.

315 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:30:32am

Shit. I alwats gotta go when it is getting good. Stupid new job orientation!!
//

316 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:30:56am

re: #314 iceweasel

We can certainly agree on the crappy organization part. Personally, I think voter fraud is pretty close to evil.

317 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:31:24am

re: #315 Cannadian Club Akbar

See ya CCA. Sorry about your Buccs! (not really)

318 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:31:40am

re: #313 Cannadian Club Akbar

A whistle-blower forced Acorn to disclose the embezzlement, which involved the brother of the organization’s founder, Wade Rathke

Forced.

Bah. It's hardly uncommon for organisations to want to handle embezzlement internally, especially on that scale. Sorry, ACORN is not the boogeyman some want to think. A crappy and sloppy organisation, yes.

319 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:33:17am

re: #304 MandyManners

In short, ACORN tried to hide a crime.

Gosh, Mandy. They were trying to protect the organization. What's wrong with that?
///

320 John Neverbend  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:33:35am

Reuters just announced that "Iran and world powers attempting to resolve a dispute of Tehran's nuclear program will start talks on October 1."

Here's the article: Iran's talks with world powers

If you read the article, you'll come across this stunning paragraph:

"But the document (the proposals to be discussed) did not mention Iran's own nuclear program, which the West suspects is aimed at making bombs, and officials have made clear it will not be part of any such discussions."

I realized that such talks are probably pointless, even if Iran was going to be held accountable for their own nuclear program, but it seems that even that isn't going to be discussed.

321 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:34:31am

re: #316 rwdflynavy

We can certainly agree on the crappy organization part. Personally, I think voter fraud is pretty close to evil.

Except they have never engaged in voter fraud.

There have been numerous charges of voter registration fraud. Committed by individual workers. Many of whom ACORN themselves turned in.

There has never been any proof of voter fraud, and in the court cases involving voter registration fraud, ACORN itself has been exonerated several times. There is no evidence of a conspiracy at the high levels to conduct voter registration fraud. None.

322 wintercat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:34:36am

The people attending the protest in Washington should have kicked out the folks with the Nazi signs.

Acorn is a corrupt organization with billions of taxpayer cash headed their way.

These two facts are not mutually exclusive. Both things are wrong, wrong, wrong, and things need to change.

323 Charpete67  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:34:36am

Funny how the same people that are demonizing the financial industry are now quick to defend ACORN as a "good organization" with "a few bad apples". The whole tree is rotten.

324 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:34:44am

re: #316 rwdflynavy

We can certainly agree on the crappy organization part. Personally, I think voter fraud is pretty close to evil.

Voter fraud simply takes away other's rights.

325 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:35:37am

I don't know where we will end up, we had a war-hero, moderate, reaching-out, reforming-type and we were spanked. Moderate in everything is kind of hard to get excited about. They would have to pretty hard-core fiscally-conservative and some way to show they at least wouldn't shove the opposite of the social cons beliefs down their throats, I think. Who is that?

326 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:36:16am

re: #321 iceweasel

Except they have never engaged in voter fraud.

Howabout, they have never been proven to have engaged in voter fraud. I can't say the DAR has never engaged in voter fraud.

327 Charpete67  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:37:02am

re: #321 iceweasel

Except they have never engaged in voter fraud.

There have been numerous charges of voter registration fraud. Committed by individual workers. Many of whom ACORN themselves turned in.

There has never been any proof of voter fraud, and in the court cases involving voter registration fraud, ACORN itself has been exonerated several times. There is no evidence of a conspiracy at the high levels to conduct voter registration fraud. None.

...and Osama Bin Ladin never flew any of the planes...

328 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:37:13am

I just posted at PJM, in response to a particularly vivid passage in RSM's piece:

“Barbara’s first report, that a ‘people meter’ at the corner of 11th Street and Pennsylvania had counted the marchers as 450,000 strong before noon, so startled me…”

I’m also startled to learn that there exists a technology that makes it possible to count the number of persons in a widely dispersed crowd with such accuracy, from a single vantage point on one street corner!

329 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:37:18am

re: #324 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Voter fraud simply takes away other's rights.

Yes, but ACORN hasn't committed voter fraud, nor have their individual workers. Charles has stated over and over again that he can't find any proof of that.

I've looked too. It isn't there.

330 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:37:53am

re: #328 Throbert McGee

I just posted at PJM, in response to a particularly vivid passage in RSM's piece:

Is it up? I thought they had moderation on.

331 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:39:18am

re: #322 wintercat

The people attending the protest in Washington should have kicked out the folks with the Nazi signs.

Acorn is a corrupt organization with billions of taxpayer cash headed their way.

These two facts are not mutually exclusive. Both things are wrong, wrong, wrong, and things need to change.

With that amendment, I'd agree with you.

332 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:39:24am

re: #329 iceweasel

The only person that I can say with certainty has not committed voter fraud is me.

333 Charpete67  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:41:21am

re: #327 Charpete67

...and Osama Bin Ladin never flew any of the planes...

you down dinged me for that?...it took me 2 seconds to find this article

Felony charges filed against 7 in state's biggest case of voter-registration fraud

[Link: seattletimes.nwsource.com...]

the largest voter fraud case in the state's history...nothing to see here...there a good organization.

334 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:41:39am

re: #329 iceweasel

Yes, but ACORN hasn't committed voter fraud, nor have their individual workers.

Charles has said this? Is this some technicality because the lists they made up out of whole cloth were flagged before they were able to be create mischief?

335 Charpete67  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:42:30am

if you google ACORN with voter fraud, you will see many articles on voter fraud...it's not that hard to find them.

336 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:42:59am

They do have moderation on, iceweasel -- I had to wait a couple minutes for my comment to appear. But it's up there now, as comment #12 in response to "Under the Gadsden Flag" -- is that the same article you commented on?

337 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:44:53am

re: #334 Spenser (with an S)

Charles has said this? Is this some technicality because the lists they made up out of whole cloth were flagged before they were able to be create mischief?

Charles has said he has searched for evidence of voter fraud, not voter registration fraud, and it cannot be found.

Nor can anyone find any evidence of a conspiracy or plan at the highest levels of ACORN to commit either.

What we basically have are a bunch of individual workers getting 8 to 10 dollars an hour to register voters, some of whom were too lazy to actually do it and filled out fake forms.

338 VioletTiger  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:45:22am

re: #332 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The only person that I can say with certainty has not committed voter fraud is me.

Exactly.

339 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:46:29am

re: #336 Throbert McGee

They do have moderation on, iceweasel -- I had to wait a couple minutes for my comment to appear. But it's up there now, as comment #12 in response to "Under the Gadsden Flag" -- is that the same article you commented on?

yep, and they deleted it and won't let me comment again. Pity, I had a lot of nice links. Commented as NotAFan:

I think it's pretty disgusting, yet typical, that a commenter at 5 above can refer to Van Jones as a 'chocolate watermelon' and go unchallenged and undeleted. "The watermelon part is obvious", he says-- yet goes on to explain it.

I guess the 'chocolate' part is not obvious, yet mysteriously not in need of explanation.

BTW, Robert, why are all your posts at Free Republic deleted?

Fortunately a search of your user name -- (BurkeCalhounDabney)--turns up the articles you posted, if not your comments, right here.

Why did you post so many links to American Renaissance, a known hate organization?
Why so many to Overthrow.com, another racist site?

The Southern Poverty Law Center noted that you were the only mainstream reporter to cover AmRen's conventions-- 4 times -- and that you somehow forgot to mention the kind of group they are.

Given your demonstrable history of lying, as well as your ties to white supremacists and racists, as well as the testimony of your former colleague at the Washington Times that you are a racist, why would you imagine that anyone should take your opinions on anything seriously?

340 freetoken  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:46:45am

re: #336 Throbert McGee

A sane voice among the raving crowds... just take a look at the comment below yours.

341 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:48:52am

re: #333 Charpete67

you down dinged me for that?...it took me 2 seconds to find this article

Felony charges filed against 7 in state's biggest case of voter-registration fraud

[Link: seattletimes.nwsource.com...]

the largest voter fraud case in the state's history...nothing to see here...there a good organization.

Actually, I'm downdinging you again for claiming that cases of voter registration fraud are cases of voter fraud.

342 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:49:12am

re: #332 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The only person that I can say with certainty has not committed voter fraud is me.

Several of my kids are still listed on the voter registration rolls under my address, even though they have lived out of state for years and are registered in the states where they live, or overseas. when I asked to have their names removed, I was told that they must request this by themselves, in a notarized letter.

I could get absentee ballots for all of them and they could still vote in their state of residence. It's easier to do this than to get them removed from the voter rolls.

343 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:49:29am

Not that I have done that, G-D forbid.

344 Charpete67  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:49:30am

re: #341 iceweasel

Actually, I'm downdinging you again for claiming that cases of voter registration fraud are cases of voter fraud.

why would you commit voter registration fraud without intending to commit voter fraud?

345 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:50:27am

re: #341 iceweasel

Just a kind and honest question Ice...I really don't know the difference so is there a specific difference?

346 Charpete67  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:51:54am

re: #341 iceweasel

Actually, I'm downdinging you again for claiming that cases of voter registration fraud are cases of voter fraud.

I'm down dinging you for trying to defend a slimy organization by splitting hairs.

347 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:52:16am

re: #344 Charpete67

why would you commit voter registration fraud without intending to commit voter fraud?

Because you are making 8 dollars an hour to collect voter registrations, and you have a quota to meet, and you're lazy. So you start copying names out of the phone book or making them up.
That's what happened. That's why so many of the forms were in names like "mickey mouse'.

348 VioletTiger  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:52:17am

re: #344 Charpete67

why would you commit voter registration fraud without intending to commit voter fraud?


It would be very hard to prove actual voter fraud because we go in the polling place, and they find your name, and then you vote. They usually don't check ID.

349 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:52:32am

re: #345 TheMatrix31

Just a kind and honest question Ice...I really don't know the difference so is there a specific difference?

Registration fraud is when you sign up dead people, nonexistent people, and the like on the voter registration rolls. Voter fraud is when these unreal people actually vote.

350 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:53:18am

re: #348 VioletTiger

It would be very hard to prove actual voter fraud because we go in the polling place, and they find your name, and then you vote. They usually don't check ID.

And because some polling places threw out the observers because they were intimidating to the voters.

351 Charpete67  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:55:08am

re: #349 thedopefishlives

Registration fraud is when you sign up dead people, nonexistent people, and the like on the voter registration rolls. Voter fraud is when these unreal people actually vote.

exactly...but is one a higher virtue than the other?

352 VioletTiger  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:55:39am

re: #350 WinterCat

And because some polling places threw out the observers because they were intimidating to the voters.

I thought the Repubs lost a suit in Ohio to check the rolls for possible fraud voters.

353 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:56:29am

re: #352 VioletTiger

I thought the Repubs lost a suit in Ohio to check the rolls for possible fraud voters.

Yes. I think they did. That is my point.

354 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:56:44am

re: #351 Charpete67

exactly...but is one a higher virtue than the other?

As ice has pointed out, technically, registration fraud could just be an innocent mistake by some bored, underpaid, overworked registration staffer wanting to meet his/her quota. Voter fraud, on the other hand, takes a conscious act of will - you basically have the intent when you commit voter fraud, as opposed to registration fraud, which can be committed without intent.

355 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:57:17am

re: #341 iceweasel

You are being pedantic, argumentative and defensive on this topic. "Bob is not a predator, he was never convicted! He was convicted of something called 'Solicitation of a minor!'"

356 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:58:26am

re: #345 TheMatrix31

Just a kind and honest question Ice...I really don't know the difference so is there a specific difference?

Hey matrix-- yes. Voter fraud would be, well, fake voting. Engineering fake votes, ballot stuffing, voting in the names of dead people, etc.

Voter registration fraud is registering non-existent voters.

People at ACORN definitely did the latter, and there have been many convictions, but there's never been any evidence of a widespread conspiracy there to commit voter registration fraud, or voter fraud, or anyone committing actual voter fraud.

It's as I said above: it's as if you had a bunch of MacDonald's workers and they had a quota to meet every day of getting people to fill out -- I dunno -- a direct mail form. So some of them start making up names and addresses to meet the quota.

There's one higher level case-- a regional office in Las Vegas, IIRC -- where someone was convicted of embezzlement and voter registration fraud, but again, it wasn't about voter fraud, but the office manager making up shit to hit a quota.

They're a crappy and sloppy organisation, just not the nefarious boogeyman that people like Glenn Beck want to claim, that's all.

357 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:58:31am

If one commits voter registration fraud one is simply being lazy. No harm done.
/

358 VioletTiger  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:58:43am

Time for a flu shot!

Gah, I hate needles.
Later.

359 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:58:56am

re: #354 thedopefishlives

As ice has pointed out, technically, registration fraud could just be an innocent mistake by some bored, underpaid, overworked registration staffer wanting to meet his/her quota. Voter fraud, on the other hand, takes a conscious act of will - you basically have the intent when you commit voter fraud, as opposed to registration fraud, which can be committed without intent.

Nothing innocent about this.

360 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:59:30am

re: #355 Spenser (with an S)

You are being pedantic, argumentative and defensive on this topic. "Bob is not a predator, he was never convicted! He was convicted of something called 'Solicitation of a minor!'"

Not at all. I just want to debunk the conspiracy theorists about ACORN.

361 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:59:38am

re: #320 John Neverbend

Reuters just announced that "Iran and world powers attempting to resolve a dispute of Tehran's nuclear program will start talks on October 1."

Here's the article: Iran's talks with world powers

If you read the article, you'll come across this stunning paragraph:

"But the document (the proposals to be discussed) did not mention Iran's own nuclear program, which the West suspects is aimed at making bombs, and officials have made clear it will not be part of any such discussions."

I realized that such talks are probably pointless, even if Iran was going to be held accountable for their own nuclear program, but it seems that even that isn't going to be discussed.

Here's an LGF post from over three years ago where Iran's former chief nuclear negotiator (what kind of job is that?) gleefully describes the means by which Iran continues to game the system.
As if the system needed gaming.
The UN fails at serious tasks because it excels at fool's errands.

362 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:04:08am

re: #359 WinterCat

Alright, if you get convicted, obviously it wasn't an "innocent" mistake. Nevertheless, it's the difference between manslaughter and murder - intent to commit the act. Manslaughter is killing someone on accident. Murder is willfully killing someone. Technically, they're two different crimes. That's all ice and I are trying to say. All that being said, it doesn't make ACORN any less of a sleazebucket organization, but they haven't yet been proven to have the intent to go out and defraud the voting public.

363 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:04:20am

re: #360 iceweasel


re: #355 Spenser (with an S)

You are being pedantic, argumentative and defensive on this topic. "Bob is not a predator, he was never convicted! He was convicted of something called 'Solicitation of a minor!'"

Not at all. I just want to debunk the conspiracy theorists about ACORN.

Ok. But as has been stated, without ID shown many places, actual voter fraud is hard to prove. Throwing out Mickey Mouse and the Dallas Cowboys, are you saying that with the widespread and prevalent voter-registration fraud that Acorn has accomplished, not one convicted felon or non-citizen has voted through their efforts? They are slimy and their intent is clear.

364 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:04:51am

re: #346 Charpete67

I'm down dinging you for trying to defend a slimy organization by splitting hairs.

In that case maybe you'll want to go back and downding Charles for making the exact same points I'm making here, and tell him that he's 'defending a slimy organisation' by 'splitting hairs'. I'm guessing you aren't going to do that though.

No-one is defending ACORN, or saying that they aren't a slimy organisation. I have made that point over and over in this very thread. And elsewhere.

But they never committed voter fraud, nor has anyone been convicted or charged with conspiracy to commit it.
I've looked, seriously. If you can prove otherwise I'll be happy to read your links.

365 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:04:55am

Good morning!
Hope all had a great weekend!
Been reading up thread a little while and have a question!
For who ever...
Rhetorical what if kinda thing...
I have a file with 25,000 Credit card holders
personal info ...include pin# and Key Logger,so I know everything they do in banking from their home..
I've printed 250 diff..peoples Checks,Made Credit Cards in their name!
...Even have ID in the persons name with my mug...
I haven't TAKEN one DIME...YET!
Have I committed a crime?

366 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:05:51am

re: #356 iceweasel

You and your damned Vulcan logic, iceweasel! Do you bleed green?

367 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:08:32am

re: #363 Spenser (with an S)

Ok. But as has been stated, without ID shown many places, actual voter fraud is hard to prove. Throwing out Mickey Mouse and the Dallas Cowboys, are you saying that with the widespread and prevalent voter-registration fraud that Acorn has accomplished, not one convicted felon or non-citizen has voted through their efforts? They are slimy and their intent is clear.

I can't guarantee that no convicted felons or non-citizens have ever voted, anywhere, through anyone's efforts.

But I can point out that they aren't likely to be people who are terribly interested in voting. For lots of reasons.

The facts remain: ACORN, while a sloppy and crappy organisation, doesn't appear to have engaged in any kind of organised malfeasance w/r/t voter reg fraud -- and there is no evidence of voter fraud itself, at all.

368 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:09:44am

re: #366 Throbert McGee

You and your damned Vulcan logic, iceweasel! Do you bleed green?

One more reference to Pon Farr and I will fucking cut a bitch.

;)
{throbert}

369 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:09:48am

re: #341 iceweasel

Actually, I'm downdinging you again for claiming that cases of voter registration fraud are cases of voter fraud.

Pretty low down.

Maybe you had beter explain this hair-splitting to the LA Times and the Wall Street Journal, both of which have committed the same trivia fraud.

Let's just call what ACORN does "treason" and be done with it, huh? These Marxist gimme-gimme whores are not content merely to steal by force of government what another person earns, but they intend to destroy the very Republic and replace it with the Worker's Paradox, where enslavement is equal.
Fuck ACORN, and fuck its defenders.

370 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:14:15am

re: #369 haakondahl

Pretty low down.

Maybe you had beter explain this hair-splitting to the LA Times and the Wall Street Journal, both of which have committed the same trivia fraud.

Let's just call what ACORN does "treason" and be done with it, huh? These Marxist gimme-gimme whores are not content merely to steal by force of government what another person earns, but they intend to destroy the very Republic and replace it with the Worker's Paradox, where enslavement is equal.
Fuck ACORN, and fuck its defenders.

Actually, fuck you for not reading your own fucking links, and seeing that their fucking headlines are fucking deceptive.

From your first link:

On Monday, Nevada officials charged Acorn, its regional director and its Las Vegas field director with submitting thousands of fraudulent voter registration forms last year

From your second:


The owner of a voter-registration company pleaded guilty Tuesday to voter-registration fraud, according to the Los Angeles County district attorney’s office

Oops.

371 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:16:49am

I feel like when there's smoke, there's fire.

372 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:17:17am

re: #370 iceweasel

Ice, you ignorant leftist. My fucking point was that the fucking headlines didn't match the fucking stories, and that the same fucking mistake, if it even is a fucking mistake at all, had been made by two fuckity-fuck-fucking newsfuckingpapers.

373 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:17:53am

re: #369 haakondahl

BTW, Sorry for the 'fuck you', haak, as I like you a lot and enjoy your comments, but the bit about claiming ACORN was engaging in treason and calling them Marxist whores and this:

hese Marxist gimme-gimme whores are not content merely to steal by force of government what another person earns, but they intend to destroy the very Republic and replace it with the Worker's Paradox, where enslavement is equal

pissed me off. Seems unlike you.

374 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:19:11am

re: #373 iceweasel

Seems unlike you

... But it doesn't seem unlike ACORN, is what we're saying.

375 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:19:48am

re: #372 haakondahl

Ice, you ignorant leftist. My fucking point was that the fucking headlines didn't match the fucking stories, and that the same fucking mistake, if it even is a fucking mistake at all, had been made by two fuckity-fuck-fucking newsfuckingpapers.

In other words, you wanted to support my point that this is a manufactured story pushed by wingnuttia.

Your comments about treason and Marxist whores were just satire too clever for this ignorant leftist, I guess.

BTW, what is a leftist?

376 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:22:53am

ACORN Video: Prostitution Scandal in New York, NY

It's a hooker hat trick! I wonder how much more video they have?

/ACORN, where criminals go for advice on money laundering and filing fraudulent tax returns

377 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:25:17am

Morning all. I read that Col. Ilan Ramon's son, Lt. Assaf Ramon died in an F-16 crash yesterday. Condolences to his family and heartfelt thank you for everything that family has given to the State of Israel and the Jewish people.

378 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:26:52am

Yeah ding me down.

/video speaks for itself, truth hurts

379 Flyers1974  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:27:15am

re: #364 iceweasel

Acorn is a sloppy and sleazy organization which supports liberal Democrats and liberal issues. I don't think many of us here would deny that. But let's admit, the Republicans are milking Acorn just a teeny tiny bit. Acorn is not the cause of each and every one of the world's problems.

380 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:28:24am

re: #362 thedopefishlives

Alright, if you get convicted, obviously it wasn't an "innocent" mistake. Nevertheless, it's the difference between manslaughter and murder - intent to commit the act. Manslaughter is killing someone on accident. Murder is willfully killing someone. Technically, they're two different crimes. That's all ice and I are trying to say. All that being said, it doesn't make ACORN any less of a sleazebucket organization, but they haven't yet been proven to have the intent to go out and defraud the voting public.

Acorn the corrupt organization is hiring people and has not managed or trained those same people in the seriousness of their endeavor. Being responsible for collecting signatures from people who may then vote is a serious business people. If signatures are faked or duplicated, whether it is due to laziness or stupidity or malfeasance potentially has the same result. Voter fraud.

This type of disregard for the awesome responsibility of their work has occurred repeatedly and by virtue of the recently released videos over at BigGovernment.com they clearly don't really care too much about the rules.

Acorn is a candy store. Come in, sit down, you want something, sure. Here are the rules and here's the in and out. And it isn't even like they are using loopholes in the system -- they are flat out encouraging people to lie, cheat, steal. Do you think these are just isolated occurrences or do you get the sense from watching the videos (assuming that you have) that this is a life philosophy for the folks in charge of these branches of the Acorn tree?

381 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:28:49am

re: #375 iceweasel

In other words, you wanted to support my point that this is a manufactured story pushed by wingnuttia.

Your comments about treason and Marxist whores were just satire too clever for this ignorant leftist, I guess.

BTW, what is a leftist?

Not at all. I'm saying that what is being manufactured here is some sort of meaningful distinction between ACORN being a bunch of Commies subverting elections and ACORN being a bunch of Commies subverting elections.
Now, I don't doubt that there are a lot of good-hearted people working for hope and change, etc, but no organization becomes more crappy and sloppy than the U.S. government without either assistance from foreign interests or malice, both of which are in abundant supply these days.
ACORN is just one problem among many, but that's no reason not to stomp on it as hard as we can. That way lies surrender.

382 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:30:36am

Just show me a place where ACORN "incompetence" benefitted Republicans.

383 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:30:54am

re: #378 Killian Bundy

Yeah ding me down.

/video speaks for itself, truth hurts

You're dinged down because that vid has been posted over and over again here, the people who made it went to several other ACORN offices first to try to get that footage, and failed. All of which was mentioned here.

Truth does hurt. That video shows nothing but the eagerness of Faux News to push a narrative, and the willingness of haters like you to buy it.

384 Danny  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:32:38am

Morning all. I omitted "good" because the mood seems pretty nasty in here right now. I concede, Monday's suck sometimes.

385 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:32:38am

re: #383 iceweasel

The New York footage was just released this morning, that makes three.

/deal with it

386 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:33:10am

re: #381 haakondahl

I'm saying that what is being manufactured here is some sort of meaningful distinction between ACORN being a bunch of Commies subverting elections and ACORN being a bunch of Commies subverting elections.

You genuinely believe ACORN is a 'bunch of Commies subverting elections'?

We've established that they haven't subverted any election, nor is there any evidence they have. Link to them being 'commie'? And no, being about community organisation is not about being a commie.

387 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:33:28am

re: #369 haakondahl

Let's just call what ACORN does "treason" and be done with it, huh? These Marxist gimme-gimme whores are not content merely to steal by force of government what another person earns, but they intend to destroy the very Republic and replace it with the Worker's Paradox, where enslavement is equal.
Fuck ACORN, and fuck its defenders.

Downding and fuck you, haakondahl, for believing your own hyperbole.

And please understand I'm only saying to you what I'd expect you (or anyone else) to say to me if I went around muttering about how the Mormons and the Pentecostals are conspiring to outlaw homosexuality and put all of us cocksuckers and rugmunchers into concentration camps.

388 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:34:10am

re: #381 haakondahl

Hanlon's Razor would apply here: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." ACORN is incompetent, sleazy, and a pile of dirt of the first order; but actively malicious has never been proven. It may be true, but it is not logically sound to claim so, yet.

389 Danny  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:34:11am

Hey I know a fun game. Let's play find the extra apostrophe!

390 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:35:16am

re: #387 Throbert McGee

Downding and fuck you, haakondahl, for believing your own hyperbole.

And please understand I'm only saying to you what I'd expect you (or anyone else) to say to me if I went around muttering about how the Mormons and the Pentecostals are conspiring to outlaw homosexuality and put all of us cocksuckers and rugmunchers into concentration camps.

Seriously. That was over the top. I'd downding any lib who muttered about Bush and Cheney being part of a Halliburton conspiracy too.

391 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:36:28am

re: #387 Throbert McGee

And please understand I'm only saying to you what I'd expect you (or anyone else) to say to me if I went around muttering about how the Mormons and the Pentecostals are conspiring to outlaw homosexuality and put all of us cocksuckers and rugmunchers into concentration camps.

Ah, but what if we were defending a group that had been caught

trying

to do just that on numerous occasions? Would you want us to stop you by saying "They haven't actually locked up a single gay, yet!"

392 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:37:11am

re: #383 iceweasel

That video shows nothing but the eagerness of Faux News to push a narrative, and the willingness of haters like you to buy it.

Is that what the video shows? It is video isn't it?

/I could have sworn it shows that ACORN has been caught red handed three times now aiding and abetting illegal activity

393 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:40:41am

Ice, I have never seen you so transparently re: #388 thedopefishlives

Hanlon's Razor would apply here: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." ACORN is incompetent, sleazy, and a pile of dirt of the first order; but actively malicious has never been proven. It may be true, but it is not logically sound to claim so, yet.

Incompetence would show as even-handed mistakes. A pattern of misconduct would show as overregistrations predominantly in Democrat territory.
The fact that ACORN's "mistakes" so uniformly benefit Democrats is the difficult thing to explain. Stupidity is inadequate to the task.

394 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:40:55am

Danny -- looks to me like you simply forgot the definite article:

Monday's the suck sometimes -- but you just have to embrace it.

395 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:41:30am
ACORN’s lifeblood is conflicts with targets outside the organization.

Think about that. It’s lifeblood isn’t empowering disadvantaged communities nor lifting people out of poverty. It isn’t concerned about increasing economic growth to improve the lives of its members. It’s lifeblood is conflict. Conflict with targets. It actually thinks of the world outside itself as targets. Acorn's philosophy

396 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:42:01am

re: #395 WinterCat

I meant to put that item in quotes.

397 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:42:12am

Ice, I have never seen you so transparently shilling for something so obviously indefensible. That's what's surprising around here.

398 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:42:17am

who cares about ACORN, lets talk about Kanye///

399 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:42:52am

re: #398 Creeping Eruption

Racist!

//

400 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:42:57am

re: #398 Creeping Eruption

who cares about ACORN, lets talk about Kanye///

If you look at the MSM websites this morning you will see they wholeheartedly agree with your statement.

401 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:43:30am

re: #400 WinterCat

If you look at the MSM websites this morning you will see they wholeheartedly agree with your statement.

Thats a big If there.

402 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:43:54am

re: #398 Creeping Eruption

lets talk about Kanye

/that video shows nothing but the eagerness of Faux News to push a narrative, and the willingness of haters like you to buy it

403 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:44:10am

From the WSJ-O piece I linked earlier, by John Fund:

Acorn's relationship to the Obama campaign is a matter of public record. Last year, Citizens Consulting Inc., the umbrella group controlling Acorn, was paid $832,000 by the Obama campaign for get-out-the-vote efforts in key primary states. In filings with the Federal Election Commission, the campaign listed the payments as "staging, sound, lighting," only correcting them after reporters from the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review revealed their true nature.

Mr. Obama distanced himself from the group's scandals last year, saying "We don't need Acorn's help." Nevertheless, he got his start as a community organizer at Acorn's side. In 1992, he headed a registration effort for Project Vote, an Acorn partner at the time. In 1995, he represented Acorn in a key case upholding the new Motor Voter Act -- the very law whose mandated postcard registration system Acorn workers use to flood election offices with bogus registrations.

404 Danny  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:44:33am

re: #398 Creeping Eruption

who cares about ACORN, lets talk about Kanye///

Oh c'mon, rumors that Obama was born in Kanye have been thoroughly debunked..

/

405 MJ  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:44:46am

re: #320 John Neverbend

Reuters just announced that "Iran and world powers attempting to resolve a dispute of Tehran's nuclear program will start talks on October 1."

Here's the article: Iran's talks with world powers

If you read the article, you'll come across this stunning paragraph:

"But the document (the proposals to be discussed) did not mention Iran's own nuclear program, which the West suspects is aimed at making bombs, and officials have made clear it will not be part of any such discussions."

I realized that such talks are probably pointless, even if Iran was going to be held accountable for their own nuclear program, but it seems that even that isn't going to be discussed.

John, it's even worse than that. Here's post of mine from the other day:

This is a desperation move on the part of the US. There is no reason why the US should be meeting with Iran unless it is to discuss the Iranian nuclear program. Since this item is expressly removed from the agenda, the only thing this meeting will do is provide legitimacy to Iranian intransigence and to Ahmadinejad.

This is part of an exchange at the State Department briefing from the other day:

QUESTION: But they just sent you this response to your offer. You offered them talks on the nuclear issue and other issues. They came back to you and said we’re willing to talk, but not about our nuclear program. So what’s the point of talking to them if you got your response – I mean, then how can you say these are not talks about talks? I mean, they’ve shown you through their official paper their willingness to engage on the nuclear issue, which is not to engage on the nuclear issue. So why would you want to have talks with them if it didn’t? And are you saying that you would sit down with Iran to talk about whether they’re willing to engage on the nuclear issue, or are you not going to sit across the table from Iran unless the nuclear issue is on the table?

MR. CROWLEY: We would expect, if we have a meeting with Iran, that it will be a – we would hope that it would be a substantive exchange. We will go into such a meeting, should Iran agree to prepare to talk about the substance of the issues and concerns that we have on Iran’s nuclear program, as was outlined this week at the IAEA. We feel that they are out of compliance with their obligations under the NPT, IAEA, Security Council resolutions. We wish to have a direct dialogue with Iran. We believe, and the President has said repeatedly, that we feel this is the way in which we will be able to, and hopefully can, resolve these issues. Our objective is clear: to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon. I don’t think that we can resolve this issue any other way but through the kind of direct dialogue --


Let's look at that last sentence: If the Obama Administration believes that it can't resolve the Iran nuclear issue any other way but through talks, then why pretend that stronger sanctions will do the trick? In addition, this statement rules out all military options. It tells the Iranian government that talking is the only option that we intent to pursue. Is it any wonder then that they ruled out talking about their nuclear program?

406 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:44:54am

Wow, fur is flying today.

407 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:45:01am

re: #383 iceweasel

ACORN has repeatedly been shown to engage in criminal activities - and highly unethical behavior. If you're willing to overlook all that, more power to you. Oh wait. /

Seriously though, ACORN's activities should be scrutinized and apparently it wasn't all that difficult to get them to say incredibly damaging and stupid things on camera. They're providing advice on how to break the law, providing political consulting, and how to engage in child prostitution all while enabling O'Keefe on how to maintain his chances for a political career in the future.

Yeah, it's all just a setup isn't it?

The first time is an isolated instance. The second? A coincidence?

Three times? I sense a real distinct pattern of criminality developing.

That ACORN fired the workers after the first video and claimed that it was isolated shows the veracity of the first video; everything after that shows that the problem isn't merely isolated, but is far more widespread.

It's little wonder that the Census Bureau dropped its affiliation with ACORN (that never should have been in the first place).

ACORN does seem to have its own rule of holes; keep digging.

408 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:45:02am

re: #402 Killian Bundy

/that video shows nothing but the eagerness of Faux News to push a narrative, and the willingness of haters like you to buy it


[Slowly steps back from the keyboard so as not to get embroiled in someone else' fight]

409 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:45:25am

re: #403 haakondahl

Forget that hyperbole. Show me the conviction # or shut up.

//

410 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:46:21am

re: #403 haakondahl

ACORN has close ties to the WFP in NYC, and they have a wee bit of trouble keeping track of money - and following campaign finance laws (scroll to update).

411 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:46:50am

re: #407 lawhawk

I wonder, not being anything remotely close to a legal expert, but could RICO statutes apply?

412 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:46:52am

re: #406 Leonidas Hoplite

Wow, fur is flying today.

Or scales - green ones.

413 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:47:01am

re: #408 Creeping Eruption

[Slowly steps back from the keyboard so as not to get embroiled in someone else' fight]

Here. You can have mine. Going to bed.

414 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:47:57am

re: #392 Killian Bundy

Is that what the video shows? It is video isn't it?

/I could have sworn it shows that ACORN has been caught red handed three times now aiding and abetting illegal activity

I see nothing to prove that ACORN itself, as opposed to some lowlevel employees, fell for a scam others were pushing.

I'll be happy to look at evidence that proves otherwise when anyone has any.

415 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:48:11am

re: #407 lawhawk

Three times? I sense a real distinct pattern of criminality developing..

/how much you wanna bet they have even more ACORN video?

416 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:48:47am

re: #411 Leonidas Hoplite

I wonder, not being anything remotely close to a legal expert, but could RICO statutes apply?

Why are you trying to bring in the immigration debate. Isn't this thread salty enough?///

417 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:49:28am

re: #397 haakondahl

Ice, I have never seen you so transparently shilling for something so obviously indefensible. That's what's surprising around here.

Seriously not shilling for anything, haak. Good night.

418 Danny  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:49:41am

re: #404 Danny

Y'all liked that one, eh?

419 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:50:14am

re: #416 Creeping Eruption

Why are you trying to bring in the immigration debate. Isn't this thread salty enough?///

All you honcos are is to making me laugh! Tears streameth from my deceiving eyes!

420 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:50:27am

re: #411 Leonidas Hoplite

I wonder, not being anything remotely close to a legal expert, but could RICO statutes apply?

This was mooted on Hugh Hewitt as early as Thursday. Perhaps--they do seem to be willing to engage in or to enable criminal conduct in return for favors. Toward the end of the first video, the ACORN lady makes a big mistake--she (at the Housing office) asks the undercover team if they would like to help out with (something on the political side). It's a Chinese-Wall area, where they are legally required to keep an arm's-length relationship between the different sides of the organization.
They didn't. Crossing the streams is almost always bad.

421 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:51:33am

re: #417 iceweasel

Seriously not shilling for anything, haak. Good night.

Good night. Please wake up as a conservative. I'll do the same.

422 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:51:34am

re: #415 Killian Bundy

I don't know how much more video they have, but it depends on when they started visiting offices, and how quickly they can go from office to office. You'd think that something like this would get the attention of ACORN officials and send warnings to other offices, but that would only come out in a legal proceeding.

RICO might not necessarily apply and the prosecutors might opt to get convictions on easier to prove charges. It depends on what law enforcement would dig up should they take up the matter (and I wholeheartedly believe that they should).

423 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:52:01am

Mood-changer. From Bill Bryson's amazing book, In a Sunburned Country...

In the 1950's a friend of Catherine's moved with her young family into a house next door to a vacant lot. One day a construction crew turned up to build a house on the lot. Catherine's friend had a four-year-old daughter who naturally took an interest in all the activity going on next door. She hung around on the margins and eventually the construction workers adopted her as a kind of mascot. They chatted to her and gave her little jobs to do and at the end of the week presented her with a little pay packet containing a shiny new half crown.

She took this home to her mother, who made all the appropriate cooings of admiration and suggested that they take it to the bank the next morning to deposit it in her account. When they went to the bank, the teller was equally impressed and asked the little girl how she had come by her own pay packet.

"I've been building a house this week," she replied proudly.

"Goodness!" said the teller. "And will you be building a house next week, too?"

"I will if we ever get the fucking bricks," answered the little girl.

424 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:52:02am

re: #416 Creeping Eruption

RICO? /suave

425 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:52:20am

re: #414 iceweasel

I see nothing to prove that ACORN itself, as opposed to some lowlevel employees, fell for a scam others were pushing.

I'll be happy to look at evidence that proves otherwise when anyone has any.

Yeah, I guess busting three ACORN offices in three different cities now is just a coincidence and doesn't suggest a pattern or anything.

/nothing to see here, move along

426 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:52:38am

re: #405 MJ

Let's look at that last sentence: If the Obama Administration believes that it can't resolve the Iran nuclear issue any other way but through talks, then why pretend that stronger sanctions will do the trick? In addition, this statement rules out all military options. It tells the Iranian government that talking is the only option that we intent to pursue. Is it any wonder then that they ruled out talking about their nuclear program?

It's actually a far worse situation than most can imagine, watch what happens after Obama chairs the Leno Show tonight UNSC in two weeks.

...and do have a wonderful day, all.

427 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:52:41am

re: #414 iceweasel

I see nothing to prove that ACORN itself, as opposed to some lowlevel employees, fell for a scam others were pushing.

I'll be happy to look at evidence that proves otherwise when anyone has any.

This is where we part ways, ice. I agree that the technicality between voter fraud and registration fraud is valid, but I think the organization is thoroughly corrupt and it shows. Multiple incidences do tend to point to something systemic.

428 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:53:30am

re: #422 lawhawk

I don't know how much more video they have, but it depends on when they started visiting offices, and how quickly they can go from office to office. You'd think that something like this would get the attention of ACORN officials and send warnings to other offices, but that would only come out in a legal proceeding.

/my guess is that they wrapped up their "tour" before they released the first video

429 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:53:57am

Going to bed soon. Really. Just not yet.

430 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:53:58am

re: #424 lawhawk

RICO? /suave

Oh God, now I'm going to have awfullest of awful music stuck in my head. AAARRRGGG!

Earworm pesticide. please!

431 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:54:49am

re: #407 lawhawk

That ACORN fired the workers after the first video and claimed that it was isolated shows the veracity of the first video; everything after that shows that the problem isn't merely isolated, but is far more widespread.

It's little wonder that the Census Bureau dropped its affiliation with ACORN (that never should have been in the first place).


Wrong.

The Census Bureau dropped the partnership with ACORN, one of 30.000 partnerships, one in which ACORN would not be paid, and would not collect data-- out of a recognition that the lunacy on the right is so widespread that ACORN's minimal involvement with the Census was going to damage the Census itself-- because of the hysteria the wingnuts were whipping up. Michelle Bachmann was already spreading lies and telling people not to fill it out at all. Most people here even believed that ACORN had some kind of primary role in the Census. They never did, and the Census Bureau explicitly acknowledged in their statement that they were ending the partnership with ACORN not because ACORN had done anything wrong, but because of the foaming and frothing about ACORN coming from the rabid wingnut conspiracy fans on the right.

432 VioletTiger  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:55:09am

re: #428 Killian Bundy

/my guess is that they wrapped up their "tour" before they released the first video


And I am guessing that they saved the 'best' for 'last'.

433 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:56:21am

re: #427 thedopefishlives

This is where we part ways, ice. I agree that the technicality between voter fraud and registration fraud is valid, but I think the organization is thoroughly corrupt and it shows. Multiple incidences do tend to point to something systemic.

Systematic crap oversight, leadership, training, and vetting, yes. Agreed.

434 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:56:53am

re: #422 lawhawk

I don't know how much more video they have, but it depends on when they started visiting offices, and how quickly they can go from office to office. You'd think that something like this would get the attention of ACORN officials and send warnings to other offices, but that would only come out in a legal proceeding.

RICO might not necessarily apply and the prosecutors might opt to get convictions on easier to prove charges. It depends on what law enforcement would dig up should they take up the matter (and I wholeheartedly believe that they should).

It may be too early to say but the visits of the pimp and prostitute looking for a way around the law does not seem to have raised any eyebrows with Acorn thereby prompting them to send out a notice to their other offices to be aware. Wonder why.

435 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:56:57am

Argh. This discussion is pissing me off. Back to watching "How I Met Your Mother" episodes on my computer.

436 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:57:28am

re: #425 Killian Bundy

Yeah, I guess busting three ACORN offices in three different cities now is just a coincidence and doesn't suggest a pattern or anything.

/nothing to see here, move along

It's funny how you and your buddies say ACORN every time someone who ever worked for ACORN, gave money to ACORN or had an acorn for a snack does something.

You guys can all maintain that there is fire where you see smoke but it doesn't mean jack until you have some actual information, facts or proof of organized corruption. All the rest is just manufactured outrage. Period.

437 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:57:31am

re: #435 TheMatrix31

Argh. This discussion is pissing me off. Back to watching "How I Met Your Mother" episodes on my computer.

One of the best sit coms out there right now.

438 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:58:19am

re: #425 Killian Bundy

Yeah, I guess busting three ACORN offices in three different cities now is just a coincidence and doesn't suggest a pattern or anything.

/nothing to see here, move along

I wonder why you didn't mention all the offices where they tried to get that footage...and couldn't?

Hint: it's more than three.

439 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:58:43am

re: #436 Locker

It's funny how you and your buddies say ACORN every time someone who ever worked for ACORN, gave money to ACORN or had an acorn for a snack does something.

LOL

440 irish rose  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:58:55am

Good morning, lizards.

441 Bloodnok  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:59:12am

re: #436 Locker

It's funny how you and your buddies say ACORN every time someone who ever worked for ACORN, gave money to ACORN or had an acorn for a snack does something.

You guys can all maintain that there is fire where you see smoke but it doesn't mean jack until you have some actual information, facts or proof of organized corruption. All the rest is just manufactured outrage. Period.

Yes. Some people sleep better with a monster under the bed.

442 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:59:15am

re: #440 irish rose

Good morning, lizards.

Good morning, {rose}. Step lightly, there are flame wars afoot.

443 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:59:23am

re: #438 iceweasel

I wonder why you didn't mention all the offices where they tried to get that footage...and couldn't?

Hint: it's more than three.

These ACORN haters also never mention the fact that ACORN itself turned it's own workers in for improper actions. Pretty strange way to run a conspiracy.

444 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:59:27am

re: #435 TheMatrix31

It's not the girl in the yellow umbrella, right? Or is it?

445 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:59:33am

re: #431 iceweasel

ACORN's involvement in the census was questionable from the outset because of ACORN's ongoing legal and ethical problems that have been long documented around the country.

Dissemble all you want about how and why the census bureau did what it did, but they were correct to distance themselves from the organization because of its problematic history.

Under other circumstances, businesses that have legal entanglements such as ACORN's would not be allowed to go near government contract work.

446 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:59:38am

re: #437 Creeping Eruption

One of the best sit coms out there right now.

Trying to catch up on all four seasons before the new one starts next Monday...

447 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:59:48am

re: #436 Locker

It's funny how you and your buddies say ACORN every time someone who ever worked for ACORN, gave money to ACORN or had an acorn for a snack does something.

You guys can all maintain that there is fire where you see smoke but it doesn't mean jack until you have some actual information, facts or proof of organized corruption. All the rest is just manufactured outrage. Period.

Damn straight.

Glad to see some of the commie day shift is arriving. How are you, Comrade Locker?

448 VioletTiger  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:59:48am

re: #436 Locker

I think only squirrels have acorns for snacks! ;)

449 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:00:46am

re: #446 TheMatrix31

Trying to catch up on all four seasons before the new one starts next Monday...

Very few people I know watch the shop or have ever heard of it. My wife and I have noticed however, that of our friends who do watch it, they are the smartest of the bunch. Take that for what its worth.

450 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:01:29am

re: #448 VioletTiger

I think only squirrels have acorns for snacks! ;)

I'm sure the next time a squirrel runs out in the street and causes an accident we'll see cries about how ACORN HATES AMERICAS DRIVERS!!

451 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:01:36am

re: #445 lawhawk

ACORN's involvement in the census was questionable from the outset because of ACORN's ongoing legal and ethical problems that have been long documented around the country.

Dissemble all you want about how and why the census bureau did what it did, but they were correct to distance themselves from the organization because of its problematic history.

Under other circumstances, businesses that have legal entanglements such as ACORN's would not be allowed to go near government contract work.

No, it really wasn't questionable. It wasn't.

They had minimal involvement and they were never going to be involved in data collection or collating of data.

452 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:01:42am

re: #448 VioletTiger

I think only squirrels have acorns for snacks! ;)

Squirrels taste like chicken.

453 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:02:15am

re: #440 irish rose

Good Morning, Rose. I think it's safe to come in the water unless you're an ACORN defender. We seem to be discussing distinctions without a difference this morning.

454 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:02:48am

re: #438 iceweasel

I wonder why you didn't mention all the offices where they tried to get that footage...and couldn't?

Hint: it's more than three.

According to who, Bertha Lewis?

This recent scam, which was attempted in San Diego, Los Angeles, Miami, New York, Philadelphia to name a few places, had failed for months before the results we’ve all recently seen.

/oops, guess she can cross New York off her list

455 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:03:20am

re: #447 iceweasel

Damn straight.

Glad to see some of the commie day shift is arriving. How are you, Comrade Locker?

I'm reading the latest issue of "SEIU Thug" here at my government job and eating a Jimmy Dean's Sausage, Egg and Cheese Croissant with a "liberal" application of Tapatio hot sauce.

456 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:04:06am

re: #443 Locker

Oh, so we're supposed to be impressed by the way that some other number of offices managed to do the legal and proper thing, while three offices - operating in NYC, DC, and Baltimore didn't?

Let's say that they visited 20 offices. 3 out of 20? 15% of offices have no problem engaging in criminality? Yeah, let's just overlook that.

Let's say they visited 10 offices. 3 out of 10 is a mess.

Be careful what you wish for on playing the percentages, because it might come back and show just how bad things truly are.

Moreover, playing the percentages isn't going to absolve ACORN of responsibility here. They do train their workers, and yet the stupid is strong with at least the three offices. Moreover, ACORN wants to continue portraying this as isolated incidents, and yet with each claim of isolated incident, a new video comes out showing the opposite - that it's far less an isolated incident and far more pervasive.

Seems like a real big problem with training.

457 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:04:21am

re: #445 lawhawk


Dissemble all you want about how and why the census bureau did what it did,

BTW, did you feel compelled to tell Charles he was 'dissembling' about ACORN and the Census, when he made the exact same points I've been making?

This isn't some kind of crazy left talking point I'm pushing here about the Census and ACORN. I have no love for ACORN. I only want the factual record to be known.

458 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:04:29am

re: #436 Locker

It's funny how you and your buddies say ACORN every time someone who ever worked for ACORN, gave money to ACORN or had an acorn for a snack does something.

You guys can all maintain that there is fire where you see smoke but it doesn't mean jack until you have some actual information, facts or proof of organized corruption. All the rest is just manufactured outrage. Period.

Well, if you pull a couple of apples out of a barrel, and they're all rotten, it is reasonable to suspect that most of the apples in the barrel are rotten.

459 VioletTiger  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:05:27am

re: #450 Locker

I'm sure the next time a squirrel runs out in the street and causes an accident we'll see cries about how ACORN HATES AMERICAS DRIVERS!!

I think there is an auto insurance company commercial like that already...

460 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:05:54am

re: #453 Spenser (with an S)

Pointing out that people are peddling lies about ACORN isn't 'defending' ACORN.

As for distinctions without a difference, I'd refer you to the above.

(PS, may have misread you, if so I will happily take back my downding)

461 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:06:29am

re: #428 Killian Bundy

/my guess is that they wrapped up their "tour" before they released the first video

I am just hoping against hope that they have a bunch of these. Don't get me wrong--three is enough and I am grateful for this spot-on journalism.

You know, usually when people defend criminals and kooks around here they get chased out pretty quick. I mean, Robert Spencer hasn't been convicted of anything, has he? We just know the smell of shit, the look of shit, the company shit keeps, and the patterns that clearly identify shit for what it is. It ain't rocket science, LGF is not a court of law, and it's clear that ACORN is a bunch of Commie crooks who subvert elections, and have for some time. I didn't say that they have single-handedly delivered any victories--Robert Spencer hasn't accomplished a lot of things that he would if he were successful beyond his wildest dreams.

Here's Charles in May of 2008:

...bombshell article today, on Barack Obama’s extensive connections to one of the most virulent anti-capitalist far-left groups operating in the United States.

It is not as though ACORN is news to LGF.

462 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:06:32am

re: #451 iceweasel

The census bureau is supposed to be nonpartisan and above reproach.

ACORN is a political organization first and foremost - and serves as a nexus for political activities, including through their spinoff political groups like the WFP in NYC.

They should have had no involvement in the census at all.

463 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:06:52am

re: #458 Kosh's Shadow

Well, if you pull a couple of apples out of a barrel, and they're all rotten, it is reasonable to suspect that most of the apples in the barrel are rotten.

Nice analogy but that's the point. To listen to the right the apples are all rotten, if you check in with reality you'll find it's a mixed bag, just like everything else.

This argument wouldn't sound so good if I used it yesterday with the Tea Parties would it? If I claimed that because there were some Nazi signs that everyone there is a Nazi? That they are all suspect? That they should all be investigated? That one sign might be fine but when you see two or three or ten signs then there might be something to this idea that the whole crowd were Nazis??

464 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:08:29am

re: #458 Kosh's Shadow

Well, if you pull a couple of apples out of a barrel, and they're all rotten, it is reasonable to suspect that most of the apples in the barrel are rotten.

Would you endorse that principle for say, the Republican Party and family values, given that we can find quite a few rotten apples who cheat on their wives while condemning Clinton, or fight against gay rights while soliciting gay sex?

I think those people are bad, for sure, but it doesn't make me condemn everyone who is Republican.

465 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:08:57am

re: #462 lawhawk

The census bureau is supposed to be nonpartisan and above reproach.

ACORN is a political organization first and foremost - and serves as a nexus for political activities, including through their spinoff political groups like the WFP in NYC.

They should have had no involvement in the census at all.

You're wrong.

466 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:09:18am

re: #463 Locker

Nice analogy but that's the point. To listen to the right the apples are all rotten, if you check in with reality you'll find it's a mixed bag, just like everything else.

This argument wouldn't sound so good if I used it yesterday with the Tea Parties would it? If I claimed that because there were some Nazi signs that everyone there is a Nazi? That they are all suspect? That they should all be investigated? That one sign might be fine but when you see two or three or ten signs then there might be something to this idea that the whole crowd were Nazis??

One big difference - anyone can go to a tea party. ACORN selects its employees, and controls who continues to be an employee.
As far as I know, no one gets thrown out of a tea party.

467 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:09:24am

re: #462 lawhawk

The census bureau is supposed to be nonpartisan and above reproach.

ACORN is a political organization first and foremost - and serves as a nexus for political activities, including through their spinoff political groups like the WFP in NYC.

They should have had no involvement in the census at all.

[Link:factcheck.org - Acorn and the Census ]

ACORN has indeed signed on to partner with the Census Bureau in connection with the 2010 census, along with about 30,000 other groups at the time of this writing. Others under "A" include, for example, the American Statistical Association, the Asian Pacific American Legal Center, Avon Products Inc. and 57 additional organizations and corporations. The Census Bureau’s Web site includes an open invitation to sign on, and the agency says it expects to have more than 100,000 partners by the time the process is over. That may even be an underestimate: In 2000, it signed up 140,000 partners.

Read the rest of the fact check article.

468 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:09:24am

re: #464 iceweasel

Would you endorse that principle for say, the Republican Party and family values, given that we can find quite a few rotten apples who cheat on their wives while condemning Clinton, or fight against gay rights while soliciting gay sex?

I think those people are bad, for sure, but it doesn't make me condemn everyone who is Republican.

Republicans also don't get trained in how to be a Republican by the RNC, either.

469 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:10:37am

re: #464 iceweasel

Would you endorse that principle for say, the Republican Party and family values, given that we can find quite a few rotten apples who cheat on their wives while condemning Clinton, or fight against gay rights while soliciting gay sex?

I think those people are bad, for sure, but it doesn't make me condemn everyone who is Republican.

Here, there are many apples and only some are rotten. We can see that because only a few Republicans have cheated on their wives, or Democrats, for that matter.

470 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:10:50am

re: #466 Kosh's Shadow

One big difference - anyone can go to a tea party. ACORN selects its employees, and controls who continues to be an employee.
As far as I know, no one gets thrown out of a tea party.

So what's your point? That ACORN is actively soliciting people to support prostitution or gather fake registrations for Mickey Mouse? What would be the point? Seriously?

471 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:11:07am

re: #461 haakondahl

It is not as though ACORN is news to LGF.

Gosh, how dare Charles or anyone point out that the bullshit about ACORN voter fraud and ACORN census involvement is...bullshit.

472 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:11:15am

re: #460 iceweasel

Yeah, what's up with the down-dings?

//

But yes, this does surprise me. ACORN is not moderate or thoughtful or scientific or even well-intentioned like most of the causes or people you defend around here. They are dirty and harmful and I think you have said as much. So, why are you wasting pixels here pointing out that they haven't actually been convicted of voter fraud and that some of their people don't commit crimes?

473 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:12:14am

Remember, ACORN is non-partisan.

/Bertha Lewis, Chief Organizer of Acorn, says so

474 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:12:20am

re: #467 Locker

Read the rest of the fact check article.

Excellent post and link.

BTW, ACORN h8rs-- this link has been posted here before. ;)

475 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:12:40am

re: #470 Locker

So what's your point? That ACORN is actively soliciting people to support prostitution or gather fake registrations for Mickey Mouse? What would be the point? Seriously?

No, but either their internal controls are poor (they are not adequately checking for bad apples when they pack the barrel, and they aren't throwing them out when they are found to be bad), or they condone such behavior.

476 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:12:41am

re: #472 Spenser (with an S)

Yeah, what's up with the down-dings?

//

But yes, this does surprise me. ACORN is not moderate or thoughtful or scientific or even well-intentioned like most of the causes or people you defend around here. They are dirty and harmful and I think you have said as much. So, why are you wasting pixels here pointing out that they haven't actually been convicted of voter fraud and that some of their people don't commit crimes?

I won't speak for her but the point (for me) is to have actual discussions about issues. Acorn, Sarah Palin, Health Care or whatever and it's hard to have a real discussion through the static of manufactured outrage.

477 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:13:58am

re: #464 iceweasel

Would you endorse that principle for say, the Republican Party and family values, given that we can find quite a few rotten apples who cheat on their wives while condemning Clinton, or fight against gay rights while soliciting gay sex?

I think those people are bad, for sure, but it doesn't make me condemn everyone who is Republican.

Well, I hope that mere hypocrisy is not seen as the equal of vote fraud.

Now I haven't googled this, but doesn't the word fraud in and of itself carry the intent? Isn't that a defining characteristic of fraud? I would think (off the top of my head) that voter registration fraud is merely a ore specific description of one type of vote (or voter) fraud. I know that you on the left are more familiar with the meaningful distinctions between various felonies and misdemeanors when it comes to subverting elections (I mean you would have to be!), so I'll accept any corrections.

478 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:14:35am

re: #472 Spenser (with an S)

Yeah, what's up with the down-dings?

//

But yes, this does surprise me. ACORN is not moderate or thoughtful or scientific or even well-intentioned like most of the causes or people you defend around here. They are dirty and harmful and I think you have said as much. So, why are you wasting pixels here pointing out that they haven't actually been convicted of voter fraud and that some of their people don't commit crimes?

For the same reasons i 'waste pixels' pointing out that though there are reasonable criticisms to make of Obama, calling him a Kenyan, an usurper, someone who wants to destroy america, a muslim, and whatever else are NOT legitimate criticisms.

I think it's important to debunk idiocy and bullshit and conspiracy theories. This stuff about ACORN is all three.

479 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:15:16am

re: #477 haakondahl

Well, I hope that mere hypocrisy is not seen as the equal of vote fraud.

Now I haven't googled this, but doesn't the word fraud in and of itself carry the intent? Isn't that a defining characteristic of fraud? I would think (off the top of my head) that voter registration fraud is merely a ore specific description of one type of vote (or voter) fraud. I know that you on the left are more familiar with the meaningful distinctions between various felonies and misdemeanors when it comes to subverting elections (I mean you would have to be!), so I'll accept any corrections.

Oral sex is not sex. It's that kind of reasoning.
/

480 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:15:46am

re: #476 Locker

Fine. I just didn't know that, unlike the others on your list, Acorn was controversial. That is, I didn't know anyone was actually Pro-Acorn. Surprises me is all.

481 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:15:52am

re: #475 Kosh's Shadow

No, but either their internal controls are poor (they are not adequately checking for bad apples when they pack the barrel, and they aren't throwing them out when they are found to be bad), or they condone such behavior.

So let me ask you directly, what do you think? Do you think this nonprofit organization run by lots of volunteers trying to make things better for low and income citizens is just having a problem managing it's size and activities or do you think these people, who are interested enough in helping to donate their own time to help, are really condoning improper actions?

482 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:15:55am

re: #477 haakondahl

I know that you on the left are more familiar with the meaningful distinctions between various felonies and misdemeanors when it comes to subverting elections (I mean you would have to be!)

Sorry, no longer interested in discussion with someone who makes crazy claims like that.

483 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:17:07am

re: #480 Spenser (with an S)

Fine. I just didn't know that, unlike the others on your list, Acorn was controversial. That is, I didn't know anyone was actually Pro-Acorn. Surprises me is all.

It is not 'pro-acorn' to point out when lies are being spread about ACORN. Get it?

484 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:18:15am

re: #475 Kosh's Shadow

No, but either their internal controls are poor (they are not adequately checking for bad apples when they pack the barrel, and they aren't throwing them out when they are found to be bad), or they condone such behavior.

There is no evidence for them condoning it. There is lots that their internal controls suck.

485 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:18:44am

re: #481 Locker

So let me ask you directly, what do you think? Do you think this nonprofit organization run by lots of volunteers trying to make things better for low and income citizens is just having a problem managing it's size and activities or do you think these people, who are interested enough in helping to donate their own time to help, are really condoning improper actions?

I think there are people who do condone such actions, at least at the middle management layer, or this wouldn't be going on.
And I hold management responsible, because they are supposed to know what is going on. If they don't, then they're incompetent, and ACORN should either replace them or go out of business.
And the US should enforce this if ACORN gets any money.
Have the ACORN execs started a full investigation? If not, ACORN should be fined, because they are complicit. And by a full investigation, I mean sending out people from headquarters, not asking each office what they're doing.

486 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:19:16am

re: #480 Spenser (with an S)

Fine. I just didn't know that, unlike the others on your list, Acorn was controversial. That is, I didn't know anyone was actually Pro-Acorn. Surprises me is all.

I'm not Pro-Acorn, I'm pro critical thinking. Let me take the other side to make it closer to your perspective... the left uses Sarah Palin ALL the time right? Manufactures outrage over what she says... blows things up to mean more than they do... wastes time and energy criticizing this woman instead of spending it on positive things? I hate it. It's stupid.

I'm having the same discussions about Acorn. I don't like or support any improper actions but Acorn is used by the right like Sarah is used by the left, as a club to beat folks with and it's detrimental to an actual discussion.

487 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:19:48am

re: #463 Locker

Nice analogy but that's the point. To listen to the right the apples are all rotten, if you check in with reality you'll find it's a mixed bag, just like everything else.

This argument wouldn't sound so good if I used it yesterday with the Tea Parties would it? If I claimed that because there were some Nazi signs that everyone there is a Nazi? That they are all suspect? That they should all be investigated? That one sign might be fine but when you see two or three or ten signs then there might be something to this idea that the whole crowd were Nazis??

Um, the Tea Parties are regularly described here as completely co-opted, taken over by, run by, started by: Ron Paul Cultists (Nazis), Birthers (Nazis), Birchers (Nazis), Paleo-Cons (Nazis) and so forth.

Are you now standing up to argue that a lot of people have been unfairly smeared by the commenters making those allegations?

488 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:20:05am

What time is Wopner on?

489 FrogMarch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:20:13am

ACORN vote fraud:
Here's one:
[Link: seattletimes.nwsource.com...]

Here's a state by state list of Acorn voter registration fraud.

490 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:20:31am

re: #486 Locker

I'm not Pro-Acorn, I'm pro critical thinking. Let me take the other side to make it closer to your perspective... the left uses Sarah Palin ALL the time right? Manufactures outrage over what she says... blows things up to mean more than they do... wastes time and energy criticizing this woman instead of spending it on positive things? I hate it. It's stupid.

I'm having the same discussions about Acorn. I don't like or support any improper actions but Acorn is used by the right like Sarah is used by the left, as a club to beat folks with and it's detrimental to an actual discussion.

Well actually, no. Because the left made up what they said about Palin. Accusations about Acorn are based in reality.

491 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:21:05am

/remember, it's all a lie!

492 irish rose  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:21:11am

It's Monday morning and I'm just not in the mood for a verbal fistfight.
Later ya'll.

493 Danny  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:21:22am

re: #489 FrogMarch

ACORN vote fraud:
Here's one:
[Link: seattletimes.nwsource.com...]

Here's a state by state list of Acorn voter registration fraud.

Sure looks like more than a "few" bad apples.

494 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:22:30am

re: #484 iceweasel

There is no evidence for them condoning it. There is lots that their internal controls suck.

In that case, they should receive no more taxpayers' money, and have to return some, or be fined. Let them live on private donations if they can't control their organization.

There are rules regulating such organizations, and they need to be enforced. No money from the taxpayers until they get their house in order.

495 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:23:00am

re: #471 iceweasel

Gosh, how dare Charles or anyone point out that the bullshit about ACORN voter fraud and ACORN census involvement is...bullshit.

Acutally, that's not been his historic approach to ACORN at all.

496 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:23:18am

re: #493 Danny

Sure looks like more than a "few" bad apples.

This is clearly a systemic problem that Acorn has cultivated in their attempts to branch out. (Puns intended.)

497 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:23:25am

re: #487 haakondahl

Um, the Tea Parties are regularly described here as completely co-opted, taken over by, run by, started by: Ron Paul Cultists (Nazis), Birthers (Nazis), Birchers (Nazis), Paleo-Cons (Nazis) and so forth.

Are you now standing up to argue that a lot of people have been unfairly smeared by the commenters making those allegations?

No, but I'm saying the comparison between ACORN and Tea Parties isn't valid.

498 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:24:15am

re: #489 FrogMarch

ACORN vote fraud:
Here's one:
[Link: seattletimes.nwsource.com...]

Here's a state by state list of Acorn voter registration fraud.

Another headline claiming "voter fraud". Another story that turns out to be about voter registration fraud.

499 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:24:46am

re: #462 lawhawk

I have a question about New Jersey law that I sent to you today.

500 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:24:47am

re: #493 Danny

Sure looks like more than a "few" bad apples.

Bad apples make good cider. What do bad acorns make? Squirrels with indigestion?

501 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:25:24am

re: #500 Leonidas Hoplite

Bad apples make good cider. What do bad acorns make? Squirrels with indigestion?

Thanks for the laugh. I think that's exactly what this thread needed.

502 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:25:24am

On another topic, the Saudi's were supposed to end their boycott of Israel when they joined the WTO, and they've increased it.
Think they'll get in trouble with the WTO?
Neither do I.

503 FrogMarch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:25:40am

re: #498 iceweasel

Another headline claiming "voter fraud". Another story that turns out to be about voter registration fraud.

So you don't see a link between voter registration fraud and vote fraud?

504 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:26:05am

re: #472 Spenser (with an S)

Yeah, what's up with the down-dings?

//

But yes, this does surprise me. ACORN is not moderate or thoughtful or scientific or even well-intentioned like most of the causes or people you defend around here. They are dirty and harmful and I think you have said as much. So, why are you wasting pixels here pointing out that they haven't actually been convicted of voter fraud and that some of their people don't commit crimes?

Ding frickin ding. This is what I was getting at earlier, with the "shill" comment.
I think that what is obvious is that ACORN is filthy, everybody knows it, and everybody knows that their connections to this President are long-standing and a mutually beneficial relationship.
If ACORN goes down hard, and the MSM cannot pretend they are sleeping while the garbage is taken out, they will be forced to react by covering the connections.
Leftists will not give up ACORN without a fight, because unbeknownst to a lot of people, this particular platoon of leftists is guarding the HQ. Expect more surprises.
Welcome to the Ia Drang of politics.
Well, it's better than Dien Bien Phu.

505 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:26:19am

re: #503 FrogMarch

So you don't see a link between voter registration fraud and vote fraud?

Is there a link?
/

506 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:26:56am

re: #503 FrogMarch

So you don't see a link between voter registration fraud and vote fraud?

Discussed upthread. Done with the topic now. Boring, it's making me cranky and I don't think anyone here is having a good time, frankly.

507 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:27:06am

re: #503 FrogMarch

So you don't see a link between voter registration fraud and vote fraud?

Don't you dare bring up 'missing links'...

508 Danny  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:27:16am

re: #498 iceweasel

Another headline claiming "voter fraud". Another story that turns out to be about voter registration fraud.

If you want to get technical, the correct term is "electoral fraud." It includes any fraudulent interference with the electoral process. It includes registration fraud.

509 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:28:05am

It is very tiring defending the indefensible.

510 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:28:28am

re: #507 Leonidas Hoplite


Don't you dare bring up 'missing links'

Yes, we've evolved way beyond that kind of pun.

511 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:28:43am

re: #508 Danny

If you want to get technical, the correct term is "electoral fraud." It includes any fraudulent interference with the electoral process. It includes registration fraud.

But the wingnuts are claiming ACORN, at the highest levels, was involved in a conspiracy to engineer fake votes for Obama. None of that is true. That's why it's important to point out that no voter fraud was committed.

512 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:29:03am

Here's an article on how Netanyahu should rebuff US pressure on Israel.
It makes the excellent points:

Yoram Ettinger, a former Israeli Consul General to the U.S. and an expert on Israeli-American relations, writes that Israel has often resisted American pressure in the past – earning American respect in the process. For instance, in 1950, 1967, and 1970, various American governments tried to pressure the respective Israeli governments regarding Jerusalem. The U.S. wanted Israel not to assume control of parts of Jerusalem, to cede control over parts of the city, and/or to stop building in the capital. In each case, Ettinger writes, “the U.S. Administration pressured, Israel constructed, Jerusalem expanded and the Jewish State earned strategic respect.

"Submission to Pressure Exacerbates Pressure"
The American government has frequently exerted pressure on Israel on others issues as well, often concerning national security. These include Israel’s declaration of independence, construction of a nuclear reactor, striking out at the Egypt-Syria-Jordan military alliance in 1967, bombing Iraq's nuclear reactor, and more. “Defiance of pressure entails short-term cost but enhances long-term national security,” Ettinger concludes. “Submission to pressure exacerbates pressure. Fending off pressure is required, in order to attain strategic goals – [but] avoiding pressure, through concessions, leads to departure from strategic goals.”
513 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:29:20am

FCBBHO covering up ties with ACORN?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

ACORN's tags

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

514 FrogMarch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:29:41am

re: #505 WinterCat

Is there a link?
/

Not at all. Tampering with voter registration has nothing to do with fraud at the elelction box.

515 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:30:11am

re: #510 Spenser (with an S)

re: #507 Leonidas Hoplite


Don't you dare bring up 'missing links'

Yes, we've evolved way beyond that kind of pun.

Or should I say Ida hoped we had...

/

516 Danny  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:30:27am

re: #511 iceweasel

I really don't know, but the claims seem very plausible in light of the massive fraud thus far revealed.

517 MJ  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:30:32am

re: #502 Kosh's Shadow

On another topic, the Saudi's were supposed to end their boycott of Israel when they joined the WTO, and they've increased it.
Think they'll get in trouble with the WTO?
Neither do I.

Don't expect the State Department to say anything about it either or even to be asked about it the briefing today.

Here's an opinion piece by TURKI al-FAISAL in yesterday's NYT:

Land First, Then Peace


[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

518 bloodnok  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:30:45am

re: #509 WinterCat

It is very tiring defending the indefensible.

Downding. It's not "defending". IW has been calling out lies and hyperbole while professing no love for the organization. Big difference. Oh, but it is indefensible because you say it is. Got it.

519 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:31:29am

re: #517 MJ

Don't expect the State Department to say anything about it either or even to be asked about it the briefing today.

Here's an opinion piece by TURKI al-FAISAL in yesterday's NYT:

Land First, Then Peace


[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

That POS is a Turkey.

520 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:31:59am

re: #517 MJ

Don't expect the State Department to say anything about it either or even to be asked about it the briefing today.

Here's an opinion piece by TURKI al-FAISAL in yesterday's NYT:

Land First, Then Peace


[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

I'll skip the article. We already know the Arabs want land, and there won't be any peace in return, just more terrorism. Example: Gaza.

521 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:32:02am

re: #513 MandyManners

ACORN was not involved in voter fraud, there is no evidence that they ever conspired, as an organisation, to commit either voter fraud or voter registration fraud. ACORN has been specifically expnerated, as an organisation, in several of the court cases brought. ACORN has also turned in its own employees to the FBI for investigation when it suspected voter registration fraud.

522 FrogMarch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:32:28am

re: #514 FrogMarch

Not at all. Tampering with voter registration has nothing to do with fraud at the election box.

forgot the tag./

523 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:33:11am

re: #518 bloodnok

Downding. It's not "defending". IW has been calling out lies and hyperbole while professing no love for the organization. Big difference. Oh, but it is indefensible because you say it is. Got it.

Thank you for the down dings. I consider them to be badges of honor in this argument.

524 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:33:38am

re: #522 FrogMarch

forgot the tag./

Got it anyway.

525 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:34:32am

re: #518 bloodnok

Downding. It's not "defending". IW has been calling out lies and hyperbole while professing no love for the organization. Big difference. Oh, but it is indefensible because you say it is. Got it.

This is exactly what the crankosphere has been doing to CJ, by the way. They claim he is 'endorsing' or 'defending' Obama, or Van Jones, or whoever, simply because he won't regurgitate lies and bullshit like the rest of them.

526 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:34:40am
527 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:35:10am

re: #523 WinterCat

Thank you for the down dings. I consider them to be badges of honor in this argument.

Good to know. Here's another.

528 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:35:59am

re: #467 Locker

I have read that - and an organization that intends to solicit for workers to engage in canvassing is indeed one that will have an ability to influence the census results. After all, who exactly is ACORN going to get to do the canvassing? Many of the same people who already work for ACORN or take advantage of their association with ACORN.

From the factcheck.org page:

ACORN checked off, among other items, "identify job candidates and/or distribute and display recruiting materials" and "provide space to train new [census] employees."

To think that they will have no effect is disingenuous.

ACORN is not directly counting census, but their employees are involved in getting people to come work as census workers and will provide training space. As we have seen with their efforts in the O'Keefe video, their character and judgment are wanting. These are the people we want providing guidance on identifying job candidates?

Factcheck.org also underplays the role to a degree.

From page 48 of the filing:
1) organize and/or serve on complete count committee;
2) volunteer and/or participate in census events;
3) sponsor events to promote participation in census;
4) provide space for to be counted sites or assistance sites;
5) appoint a liason to work with the census bureau; etc.

Some of those are merely to get word out about the census, which are laudable, but the ties are closer than Factcheck would lead one to believe.

Next time you send off links, try reading the source material even from places like Factcheck.

Moreover, Obama's ties to the group is closer than either would have led the public to believe (and admitted as much via Factcheck).

Also, I have had dealings with acorn over the years at the NYS legislature, and are among the more thuggish groups to visit the state capital. I don't use that term lightly either. They are a most unruly bunch when they come to visit on legislative offices, so the appearance of those videos is not at all surprising.

529 MJ  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:36:05am

re: #512 Kosh's Shadow

Here's an article on how Netanyahu should rebuff US pressure on Israel.
It makes the excellent points:

Actually, I think Bibi has done a pretty good job on resisting Obama so far.
He has reminded everyone that the issue is one of recognition that Israel is the Jewish State.

530 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:36:07am

re: #525 iceweasel

This is exactly what the crankosphere has been doing to CJ, by the way.

Suck up, you just know he's waking up about now... ;)

partial/

531 SurferDoc  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:36:10am

ACORN is a criminal enterprise. IT should be investigation under the RICO statutes and shut down.

532 Flyers1974  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:36:47am

re: #405 MJ

Let's look at that last sentence: If the Obama Administration believes that it can't resolve the Iran nuclear issue any other way but through talks, then why pretend that stronger sanctions will do the trick? In addition, this statement rules out all military options. It tells the Iranian government that talking is the only option that we intent to pursue. Is it any wonder then that they ruled out talking about their nuclear program?

My theory is that it is doubtful that any US administration will attack Iran (absent an attack on the US or Israel, etc...,) even if it were a known certainty that Iran would have a nuclear weapon within one year, for example. I would also guess that Iran believes this as well, regardless of statements or lack of statements made by the President. My reasons for believeing this are: Lack of public support and political will here, No support from China or Russia, Fear of unintended foreign policy and economic consequences. So the question is, whether or not one personally agrees that military force should not be used, if it is true that it will in fact, not be used for the reasons above or for other reasons, what are the options?

533 Danny  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:37:29am

re: #521 iceweasel

ACORN was not involved in voter fraud, there is no evidence that they ever conspired, as an organisation, to commit either voter fraud or voter registration fraud.

Didn't one of ACORN's field directors plead guilty to fraud? Where do you draw the line between the "apples" and the "tree?"

534 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:37:38am

Thank you ladycatnip. The down ding children are busy today.

535 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:37:41am

re: #499 MandyManners

Gotcha.

536 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:38:20am

re: #530 Spenser (with an S)

Suck up, you just know he's waking up about now... ;)

partial/

Right. Like he doesn't find out what's posted when he's asleep too.

537 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:38:27am

re: #488 Leonidas Hoplite

What time is Wopner on?

1986.

538 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:39:10am

re: #465 iceweasel

Ah, that's a classic reparte there. Full of facts and logic. Great post.

539 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:39:10am

re: #533 Danny

Didn't one of ACORN's field directors plead guilty to fraud? Where do you draw the line between the "apples" and the "tree?"

Voter registration fraud, and embezzlement. Already mentioned.

540 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:40:06am

re: #539 iceweasel

Voter registration fraud, and embezzlement. Already mentioned.

Ah, so voter registration fraud is something to be overlooked? Seriously? What exactly does one do once they've engaged in voter registration fraud? Could it possibly lead to fraudulent voting?

541 Danny  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:40:23am

re: #539 iceweasel

Voter registration fraud, and embezzlement. Already mentioned.

Voter registration fraud = election fraud. Already mentioned.

542 lurking faith  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:40:50am

re: #386 iceweasel

You genuinely believe ACORN is a 'bunch of Commies subverting elections'?

We've established that they haven't subverted any election, nor is there any evidence they have. Link to them being 'commie'? And no, being about community organisation is not about being a commie.

Failure to prove that they have subverted an election is NOT the same thing as "establishing that they haven't subverted any election." If you're going to split hairs, you should split that one as well. "Unproven" only means "innocent" in the legal sense.

I cannot give you evidence, unfortunately, but I know quite a number of people at Ohio colleges, and know a couple of students who were *ahem* encouraged by roving registration workers to register and vote there as well as voting in their home states. (And no, they wouldn't and won't go on record. They don't want to be Joe-the-plumbered.) Ohio was a swing state; every extra vote counted.

543 Bloodnok  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:41:18am

re: #523 WinterCat

Thank you for the down dings. I consider them to be badges of honor in this argument.

Yup. You are earning your conservative cred today. With three more overblown ACORN hyperbole posts you get a gold star. Keep going, I know you can do it!

544 MJ  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:41:30am

re: #532 Flyers1974

My theory is that it is doubtful that any US administration will attack Iran (absent an attack on the US or Israel, etc...,) even if it were a known certainty that Iran would have a nuclear weapon within one year, for example. I would also guess that Iran believes this as well, regardless of statements or lack of statements made by the President. My reasons for believeing this are: Lack of public support and political will here, No support from China or Russia, Fear of unintended foreign policy and economic consequences. So the question is, whether or not one personally agrees that military force should not be used, if it is true that it will in fact, not be used for the reasons above or for other reasons, what are the options?

Don't disagree with you. However, the question is why did the Obama Administration take the military option off the table without getting anything in return and why did it agree to talks which specifically rule out discussion of the one issue which is paramount?

545 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:41:48am

re: #538 lawhawk

Ah, that's a classic reparte there. Full of facts and logic. Great post.

You've already been refuted, over and over. What is the point? Yet you STILL want to claim there was something weird or suspicious about ACORN's involvement with the census, and the fact is there wasn't.

They're a sloppy organisation. They are no longer a census partner because of the Wingnut Freakout, no other reason. I really don't understand the desire to turn them into the KGB or the Stasi or whatever-- except as yet another manifestation of ODS.

546 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:42:42am

I get the feeling that Obama thinks that Iran, and now possibly Venezuela, North Korea etc. will have no bad intentions if they get nukes.

I really believe that Obama believes that they would do nothing aside from use them for 'peaceful' purposes.

If that is the case, this man is full on in the throes of unicorn psychosis.

547 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:43:14am

re: #542 lurking faith

Failure to prove that they have subverted an election is NOT the same thing as "establishing that they haven't subverted any election."

Perhaps you should read this sentence over and over a few times, and then meditate upon what it means to prove a negative.

548 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:44:07am

re: #546 Oh no...Sand People!

I get the feeling that Obama thinks that Iran, and now possibly Venezuela, North Korea etc. will have no bad intentions if they get nukes.

I really believe that Obama believes that they would do nothing aside from use them for 'peaceful' purposes.

If that is the case, this man is full on in the throes of unicorn psychosis.

But he wants to get rid of our nukes.

549 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:44:08am

re: #543 Bloodnok

Yup. You are earning your conservative cred today. With three more overblown ACORN hyperbole posts you get a gold star. Keep going, I know you can do it!

Actually, I am not a conservative. Thanks for the well-reasoned broad brush smear though.

550 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:44:47am

re: #463 Locker

Fine. upding for a good rebuttal...

*grumbles...*

551 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:45:57am

re: #550 Oh no...Sand People!

Fine. upding for a good rebuttal...

*grumbles...*

Upding for honesty and being goodnatured about it too.

552 Danny  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:46:42am

I think I've procrastinated starting the work week long enough. BBL.

553 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:46:55am

re: #545 iceweasel

New topic. Have you noticed that no one has asked or even expected you to personally refute the crazed nut that shot and killed the Pro-Life activist last Friday? He was a nut with a gun and not even Keith Ohlberman's vile spewing caused him to do this.

Seems different than last time, somehow.

554 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:47:18am

Was just downstairs reading up on RSM's anthropological excursions into the world of homosexuals -- whee! Obviously, his attack on Meghan McCain is beneath contempt, but there were a few kernels of truth in what he said about misandry among (some) lesbians and misogyny among (some) gay men. Personally, I suspect that a non-trivial percentage of "gay" identified men are actually bisexuals who've chosen to act only on their homosexual needs while suppressing their heterosexual side because they're such gigantic fucking misogynists.

But I say this based on years of hanging out with "my people" both in the real world and online -- I wonder where RSM gets his insight...

555 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:48:19am

re: #543 Bloodnok

Yup. You are earning your conservative cred today. With three more overblown ACORN hyperbole posts you get a gold star. Keep going, I know you can do it!

Three posts on Acorn and 4 proofs of purchase and you can get a little fool's gold wingnut to pin on your lapel. ;)

How are you today, Nok? I had some beach boys in mind for you:

556 Bloodnok  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:50:27am

re: #549 WinterCat

Actually, I am not a conservative. Thanks for the well-reasoned broad brush smear though.

Fear not, there's a place for you at their table with the work you're putting in today.

"Conservative" is a smear? Who knew?

557 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:51:07am

re: #548 Kosh's Shadow

But he wants to get rid of our nukes.

And he's doing a good job of it by not funding RRW. Unilateral nuclear disarmament by neglect.

/our existing warheads are many decades old, we can't test them, and, as time goes on, there's no guarantee they'll function properly

558 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:51:48am

re: #545 iceweasel

You've already been refuted, over and over. What is the point? Yet you STILL want to claim there was something weird or suspicious about ACORN's involvement with the census, and the fact is there wasn't.

They're a sloppy organisation. They are no longer a census partner because of the Wingnut Freakout, no other reason. I really don't understand the desire to turn them into the KGB or the Stasi or whatever-- except as yet another manifestation of ODS.

Refuted? Hardly. You haven't proven anything except your inability to read all of the information at the very links provided as I have already noted.

Additionally, you want to ascribe a wingnut freakout to my posting?

Hyperbole much?

You claim that they're a sloppy organization, and yet there is a pile of evidence showing that much more.

And where do you get the KGB/stasi crapola? The organization's various offices as shown in the video should be investigated - precisely because of the criminality and statements made therein. That's not KGB tactics - but in the province of lawful law enforcement.

There are few here who take as thoughtful positions and isn't one to rush to judge on facts and circumstances. Calling for an investigation into the actions depicted on those videos isn't a rush to judgment. Calling for an investigation to see just how widespread the problem is isn't a rush to judgment.

Wanting to see the census bureau have no relationship with organizations with troubled backgrounds is a completely sensible and absolutely crucial to maintaining the nonpartisan and trustworthiness of the census.

Nor are such calls the acts of a stasi or kgb.

So, tone down your damned hyperbole and stick to the facts. The videos speak for themselves.

559 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:51:52am

re: #556 Bloodnok

Fear not, there's a place for you at their table with the work you're putting in today.

"Conservative" is a smear? Who knew?

You attempted to make it so. But then you clearly want to move away from that little snippy comment so now you want to turn it back on me.

Thanks for your advice but I will tend to my own table thanks.

560 Bloodnok  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:53:19am

re: #555 iceweasel

Three posts on Acorn and 4 proofs of purchase and you can get a little fool's gold wingnut to pin on your lapel. ;)

How are you today, Nok? I had some beach boys in mind for you:



One of my favorite songs. Ever. Top 3 at least. ;)

I am doing great today, thanks! I hope you can say the same.

561 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:53:53am

re: #558 lawhawk

Dude. Read the links. Think about it. And reread my posts, too, in which the KBG and Stasi references are obviously ironic mockery, and in which 'wingnut freakout' obviously refers not to you, but the fringe elements of the righty-sphere.

562 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:54:11am

re: #556 Bloodnok

Fear not, there's a place for you at their table with the work you're putting in today.

"Conservative" is a smear? Who knew?

And what?? I am not allowed to step away from the script? If I agree with a "conservative" point that Acorn is corrupt I am one of "them?" How about being able to think for one's self?

563 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:54:20am

re: #512 Kosh's Shadow

Here's an article on how Netanyahu should rebuff US pressure on Israel.
It makes the excellent points:

Here's my advice on how Netanyahu should rebuff US pressure:

GO PISS UP A ROPE!

564 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:55:02am

re: #521 iceweasel

ACORN was not involved in voter fraud, there is no evidence that they ever conspired, as an organisation, to commit either voter fraud or voter registration fraud. ACORN has been specifically expnerated, as an organisation, in several of the court cases brought. ACORN has also turned in its own employees to the FBI for investigation when it suspected voter registration fraud.

Links?

565 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:56:41am

re: #560 Bloodnok

One of my favorite songs. Ever. Top 3 at least. ;)

I am doing great today, thanks! I hope you can say the same.

Really? i did not know that. Love it though!

I'm exceedingly well and happy, and hope you are too. :)

Why do people disable embedding? Arrrgh

566 FrogMarch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:56:42am

re: #561 iceweasel

Dude. Read the links. Think about it. And reread my posts, too, in which the KBG and Stasi references are obviously ironic mockery, and in which 'wingnut freakout' obviously refers not to you, but the fringe elements of the righty-sphere.

So if there exists a "wing-nut freak-out" that erases Acorn's voter registration fraud?

567 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:57:46am

re: #552 Danny

I think I've procrastinated starting the work week long enough. BBL.

This is where the procrastinating wheat gets separated from the procrastinating chaff. I'm sticking it out.

568 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:57:52am

re: #564 MandyManners

Links?

Jesus.

Go search Charles' comments on this. Or do your own googling.
This is like the 5th thread where I've had to debunk bullshit about ACORN, and it's making me cranky.

569 ArmyWife  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:58:28am

so...how's the weather?

570 lurking faith  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:58:30am

re: #464 iceweasel

Would you endorse that principle for say, the Republican Party and family values, given that we can find quite a few rotten apples who cheat on their wives while condemning Clinton, or fight against gay rights while soliciting gay sex?

I think those people are bad, for sure, but it doesn't make me condemn everyone who is Republican.

As has been said on LGF many times before, Republicans generally shun and vote out their hypocrites, once discovered. Democrats tend to support and reelect theirs. I say this with no joy, only disappointment.

571 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:59:43am

re: #566 FrogMarch

So if there exists a "wing-nut freak-out" that erases Acorn's voter registration fraud?

No, the fact that there is no evidence of Acorn, as an organisation, participating in efiubecfiubudfhbvuoidfbviuosdfuovibdwv---

Had it. Live in your own ACORN fantasy bubble.

572 Flyers1974  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:00:04am

re: #546 Oh no...Sand People!

I get the feeling that Obama thinks that Iran, and now possibly Venezuela, North Korea etc. will have no bad intentions if they get nukes.

I really believe that Obama believes that they would do nothing aside from use them for 'peaceful' purposes.

If that is the case, this man is full on in the throes of unicorn psychosis.

I think he thinks (1) Iran will always act in Iran's best interest; (2) Iran believes survival of the regime is in its best interest; (3) Iran believes that if it attacks the US, Israel, or Saudi Arabia, etc...,with nuclear weapons, the regime will cease to exist. I think it is a given that a nuclear Iran will worry less about a conventional attack and will act accordingly. I doubt Bush thought differently. Otherwise, how would one explain the Iraq war instead of war on Iran?

573 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:00:32am

re: #568 iceweasel

Jesus.

Go search Charles' comments on this. Or do your own googling.
This is like the 5th thread where I've had to debunk bullshit about ACORN, and it's making me cranky.

See my No. 513 for Charles' posts about ACORN. The post contains one article and a list of the tags.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

574 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:00:48am

re: #563 MandyManners

Here's my advice on how Netanyahu should rebuff US pressure:

GO PISS UP A ROPE!

Updinged for truth.

575 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:01:35am

re: #570 lurking faith

As has been said on LGF many times before, Republicans generally shun and vote out their hypocrites, once discovered. Democrats tend to support and reelect theirs. I say this with no joy, only disappointment.

A lie and a slur against Democrats--for whom I have only slightly less dlsliking than I do the GOP.

Let's really not get started on the subject of which party has more hypocrites. They both do, and the GOP isn't going to come out of that discussion anything less than covered in mud.

576 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:01:51am

re: #566 FrogMarch

So if there exists a "wing-nut freak-out" that erases Acorn's voter registration fraud?

What does that question even mean?

577 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:01:52am

re: #569 ArmyWife

so...how's the weather?

Global warming my ASS!! Oh . . .the weather? Sorry, just fine, thank you. And yours?///

578 bloodnok  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:01:58am

re: #562 WinterCat

And what?? I am not allowed to step away from the script? If I agree with a "conservative" point that Acorn is corrupt I am one of "them?" How about being able to think for one's self?

I would suggest stepping away from the keyboard first. I didn't intend to touch such a live nerve. I apologize.

579 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:02:39am

Good morning everyone!

Hope y'all had a relaxing weekend; those seem to be in short supply for me nowadays as I'm less than a month away from the wedding...

580 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:02:53am

I will say one other thing about the videos on BigGovernment.com. I felt very sympathetic and sorry for the Acorn people giving the advice to the BG activists. They are clearly ill qualified for the positions they held. I don't necessarily blame them so much as I blame the Acorn organization. I seriously doubt that these Acorn people would have felt comfortable dishing out their "advice" if upper management didn't make it clear that they could pretty much do whatever they felt they needed to in order to extend their organization further into the community. This fish is rotting from the head.

581 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:03:01am

re: #573 MandyManners

See my No. 513 for Charles' posts about ACORN. The post contains one article and a list of the tags.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Have you looked at his comments on the topics at hand, namely ACORN and the Census, and ACORN and voter fraud?

You might want to check them out.

582 WinterCat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:03:43am

re: #578 bloodnok

I would suggest stepping away from the keyboard first. I didn't intend to touch such a live nerve. I apologize.

Hahahahahah. Don't flatter yourself. You didn't score any points.

583 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:03:47am

re: #579 MrSilverDragon

Good morning everyone!

Hope y'all had a relaxing weekend; those seem to be in short supply for me nowadays as I'm less than a month away from the wedding...

Well, as a Dragon, you will feel very comfortable with the temp. in here. Mild flame war going on. ACORN roasting on an open fire, and all . . .

584 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:03:47am

re: #569 ArmyWife

so...how's the weather?

Awesome here in the Great Lakes State. We're having our summer in September instead of August this year.

585 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:04:45am

re: #562 WinterCat

And what?? I am not allowed to step away from the script? If I agree with a "conservative" point that Acorn is corrupt I am one of "them?" How about being able to think for one's self?

Us and them.


586 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:05:12am

re: #581 iceweasel

Have you looked at his comments on the topics at hand, namely ACORN and the Census, and ACORN and voter fraud?

You might want to check them out.

His recent posts?

587 Flyers1974  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:05:23am

re: #544 MJ

Don't disagree with you. However, the question is why did the Obama Administration take the military option off the table without getting anything in return and why did it agree to talks which specifically rule out discussion of the one issue which is paramount?

Taking the military option off the table, to the extent he did, I can understand if no one believes its an option in the first place (also, there is no reason that cannot be revoked of course.) The rest, I have no theory.

588 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:05:23am

re: #584 Spenser (with an S)

Awesome here in the Great Lakes State. We're having our summer in September instead of August this year.

A fine Indian summer we're having here in the wild north country. Hopefully this will help the farmers haul in before the frost comes.

589 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:05:43am

re: #582 WinterCat

Hahahahahah. Don't flatter yourself. You didn't score any points.

590 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:06:09am

re: #586 MandyManners

His recent posts?

His recent comments. In the last week. On these subjects.

591 lurking faith  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:06:49am

re: #514 FrogMarch

Not at all. Tampering with voter registration has nothing to do with fraud at the elelction box.


Right. And filling your gas tank has nothing to do with taking a road trip.

592 Pianobuff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:07:17am

re: #558 lawhawk

Refuted? Hardly. You haven't proven anything except your inability to read all of the information at the very links provided as I have already noted.

Additionally, you want to ascribe a wingnut freakout to my posting?

Hyperbole much?

You claim that they're a sloppy organization, and yet there is a pile of evidence showing that much more.

And where do you get the KGB/stasi crapola? The organization's various offices as shown in the video should be investigated - precisely because of the criminality and statements made therein. That's not KGB tactics - but in the province of lawful law enforcement.

There are few here who take as thoughtful positions and isn't one to rush to judge on facts and circumstances. Calling for an investigation into the actions depicted on those videos isn't a rush to judgment. Calling for an investigation to see just how widespread the problem is isn't a rush to judgment.

Wanting to see the census bureau have no relationship with organizations with troubled backgrounds is a completely sensible and absolutely crucial to maintaining the nonpartisan and trustworthiness of the census.

Nor are such calls the acts of a stasi or kgb.

So, tone down your damned hyperbole and stick to the facts. The videos speak for themselves.

You might be interested in the latest.

First, the quote from ACORN: "This recent scam, which was attempted in San Diego, Los Angeles, Miami, New York, Philadelphia to name a few places, had failed for months before the results we’ve all recently seen."
-Bertha Lewis, Chief Organizer, ACORN

Well, guess what?

MmmHmmm. Video from the NY office.

593 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:07:18am

re: #545 iceweasel

You've already been refuted, over and over. What is the point? Yet you STILL want to claim there was something weird or suspicious about ACORN's involvement with the census, and the fact is there wasn't.

They're a sloppy organisation. They are no longer a census partner because of the Wingnut Freakout, no other reason. I really don't understand the desire to turn them into the KGB or the Stasi or whatever-- except as yet another manifestation of ODS.

ACORN is many things, all bad, but sloppy is not the problem, any more than a person stabbed 47 times died of clumsiness.

594 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:07:57am

re: #584 Spenser (with an S)

Awesome here in the Great Lakes State. We're having our summer in September instead of August this year.

I should be wearing fleece, instead I feel like I got fleeced.

595 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:08:39am

re: #592 Pianobuff

You might be interested in the latest.

First, the quote from ACORN: "This recent scam, which was attempted in San Diego, Los Angeles, Miami, New York, Philadelphia to name a few places, had failed for months before the results we’ve all recently seen."
-Bertha Lewis, Chief Organizer, ACORN

Well, guess what?

MmmHmmm. Video from the NY office.

My guess is that they tried more than once in the NY office.

596 ArmyWife  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:08:39am

re: #592 Pianobuff

Supposedly there are more videos, too. I shall wait the requisite 48 hours before making judgement as to whether the additional videos are fact, or fiction.

597 badger1970  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:08:41am

(omitting rant about the weekend DC march)

I spent way too much time sniffing carpet shampoo and trying to figure out where my 3 hours of wasted time went watching a bunch of wussified "heroes" in the Watchmen. BTW after further review, da' Bears still suck.

598 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:09:30am

re: #597 badger1970

(omitting rant about the weekend DC march)

I spent way too much time sniffing carpet shampoo and trying to figure out where my 3 hours of wasted time went watching a bunch of wussified "heroes" in the Watchmen. BTW after further review, da' Bears still suck.

GO PACK!!!

599 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:09:39am

Just because Acorn has not been convicted of voting fraud does not exhonorate their admitted engagement in widespread voter registration fraud.
The lame excuse that Acorn voter registration fraud was just the action of lazy low-level employees trying to fill their quotas, and not the responsibility of Acorn management, does not hold water.
1. ACORN itself was presumably paid and was rewarded for registering voters, and so Acorn executives had an interest in maximizing the number of registrations.
2. Therefore, the quotas imposed by Acorn management had the objective of maximizing Acorn funding.
3. ACORN paid workers for every voter registration card collected, which is a felony in Florida and also illegal in Missouri and Pennsylvania.
3. As Acorn employees were paid on a piecework basis then by making these arrangements Acorn management was responsible for providing its own employees with a juicy incentive to cut corners.
4. The casual nature of some of the fraud (e.g. using names like Mickey Mouse, Paul Newman and James Taylor) brings into serious question the adequacy and degree of supervision by management. The fact that these antics went undetected for so long is pretty good evidence of a "wink and a nod" attitude by ACORN executives.

It therefore seems pretty clear to me that:
Production quotas + pay tied to filling quotas + lack of supervision = management liability.

But what do I know?

600 ArmyWife  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:10:04am

re: #588 thedopefishlives

Central VA had a great weekend - the house opened up the whole time. Had to turn in back on today, highs of 87, but rain later in the week.

601 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:10:21am

re: #593 haakondahl

ACORN is many things, all bad, but sloppy is not the problem, any more than a person stabbed 47 times died of clumsiness.

haak, there just isn't any evidence of malfeasance at the highest levels, or an organised conspiracy to commit voter fraud or voter reg fraud. I've looked. Others have looked.

Find me otherwise, I promise to look at that too.

602 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:10:44am

re: #547 iceweasel

Perhaps you should read this sentence over and over a few times, and then meditate upon what it means to prove a negative.

This is the second time you have taken a rebuttal as somehow not meaning what it clearly does, and declaring that you have straightened it out, winning once again!
In other news, the chocolate ration has been increased from three grams per week to one gram per week.
You may have noticed that you and your big-lie friends aren't gaining much traction here.
ACORN stinks--I can smell it from here, and it has stunk for years.

603 avanti  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:11:02am

Something is driving Obama's approval higher this last week. He's at a two month high, and the trend is up. My guess is it's the over the top attacks, but I could be wrong. Rasmussen.

BTW, Rasmussen is still lower than the other polls.

604 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:11:37am

re: #599 Spare O'Lake

Just because Acorn has not been convicted of voting fraud does not exhonorate their admitted engagement in widespread voter registration fraud.

No one has argued that it does.

That's probably why ACORN itself turned in tips about some of their staff they suspected was involved in voter reg fruad.

605 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:12:21am

re: #531 SurferDoc

ACORN is a criminal enterprise. IT should be investigation under the RICO statutes and shut down.

Let's give 'em a fair trial and then hang 'em!

//

607 Pianobuff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:12:35am

re: #595 iceweasel

My guess is that they tried more than once in the NY office.

Per the report, they tried the Bronx office, but it was locked up.

Having been around a lot of corporate environments, ACORN comes across as a very toxic organization to me. Were they a public company, I venture that their stock would be worth next to nothing. This does not make me feel good about my money going to them.

608 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:12:40am

re: #603 avanti

Something is driving Obama's approval higher this last week. He's at a two month high, and the trend is up. My guess is it's the over the top attacks, but I could be wrong. Rasmussen.

BTW, Rasmussen is still lower than the other polls.

Avanti, a Rasmussen poll? I'm shocked! ;)

609 Flyers1974  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:12:46am

re: #603 avanti

Something is driving Obama's approval higher this last week. He's at a two month high, and the trend is up. My guess is it's the over the top attacks, but I could be wrong. Rasmussen.

BTW, Rasmussen is still lower than the other polls.

Doesn't this almost always happen after a president gives a big speech?

610 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:13:17am

re: #590 iceweasel

His recent comments. In the last week. On these subjects.

I've searched but there are too many comments from Charles and on ACORN to find anything. I'll keep trying.

611 Spenser (with an S)  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:13:20am

re: #603 avanti

My guess is it's the over the top attacks

Oh, you mean the one guy who apologized? For the thing that happened all the time in the past, without apology? That thing?

612 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:14:01am

re: #609 Flyers1974

Doesn't this almost always happen after a president gives a big speech?

Not always. It's been a trend up until recently that every time Obama opened his mouth, the stock market (and his approval rating) tanked.

613 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:14:08am

re: #563 MandyManners

Here's my advice on how Netanyahu should rebuff US pressure:

GO PISS UP A ROPE!

In your dreams.

614 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:14:34am

re: #571 iceweasel

No, the fact that there is no evidence of Acorn, as an organisation, participating in efiubecfiubudfhbvuoidfbviuosdfuovibdwv---

Had it. Live in your own ACORN-FREE fantasy bubble.

FTFY

615 ArmyWife  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:15:10am

re: #605 SanFranciscoZionist

OK - the cart when before the horse here, agreed. But please read Lawhawks statements of the issue above - he hits the nail on the head, at least for me. I think an investigation is in order - an investigation is NOT (and shouldn't be) a rush to judgement. If Acorn ee and execs are all wearing wonderfully polished halos, then so be it. There is enough smoke here, however, to at least research potential fire.

616 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:15:21am

re: #554 Throbert McGee

Was just downstairs reading up on RSM's anthropological excursions into the world of homosexuals -- whee! Obviously, his attack on Meghan McCain is beneath contempt, but there were a few kernels of truth in what he said about misandry among (some) lesbians and misogyny among (some) gay men. Personally, I suspect that a non-trivial percentage of "gay" identified men are actually bisexuals who've chosen to act only on their homosexual needs while suppressing their heterosexual side because they're such gigantic fucking misogynists.

But I say this based on years of hanging out with "my people" both in the real world and online -- I wonder where RSM gets his insight...

Throb, if these men actually exist, I say, good on 'em. Simply because there are far too many gigantic fucking misogynists who continue to act on their heterosexuality. ;)

My experience, however, has been that a great majority of gay men treat women with respect.

617 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:15:26am

Does anyone know if former members of SDS were involved in the founding of ACORN of are currently involved?

What about SEIU ties to ACORN?

618 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:15:40am

re: #610 MandyManners

I've searched but there are too many comments from Charles and on ACORN to find anything. I'll keep trying.

I'm not making this up -- they're there. If i could remember the thread(s) I'd yank them for you.

Anyway, the real point isn't that this is what CJ thinks too, but that I'm not defending ACORN, I'm not throwing around a partisan talking point, I'm merely debunking some of the conspiracy theories about ACORN.

619 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:16:18am

re: #595 iceweasel

Why should it succeed even once? Who do they have working there and why are you attempting to downplay the criminality?

620 Pianobuff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:16:43am

re: #603 avanti

Something is driving Obama's approval higher this last week. He's at a two month high, and the trend is up. My guess is it's the over the top attacks, but I could be wrong. Rasmussen.

BTW, Rasmussen is still lower than the other polls.

I think the speech has been helping him as he's been trending up a little since then.

You're wrong about Rasmussen, though. They have his approval at 52%. AP and Democracy Corps both have it lower. Gallup and ABC both have it higher. Rasmussen is directly in the middle.

621 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:17:29am
622 lurking faith  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:18:02am

re: #545 iceweasel
I'm trying to stay out of the downding battle this morning, but you earned one by completely ignoring lawhawk's point, which is that there are actual regulations about what organizations may be involved in what types of government-related activities - such as the Census - and ACORN does not conform to the requirements.

It is and always was highly inappropriate for them, as a political organization, to be involved with the Census in ANY way. (Regardless of their honesty and competence or lack thereof.)

623 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:18:09am

re: #603 avanti

Something is driving Obama's approval higher this last week. He's at a two month high, and the trend is up. My guess is it's the over the top attacks, but I could be wrong. Rasmussen.

BTW, Rasmussen is still lower than the other polls.

That's because the rest are biased. Good Morning, you incidental enabler of Commies!

624 turn  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:18:15am

re: #584 Spenser (with an S)

Awesome here in the Great Lakes State. We're having our summer in September instead of August this year.

It's raining in Sac, weird. Oh morning all, dang gone for over a week and all hell breaks loose. Van Jones under the bus, tea partying nirthers/birthers, McCain white supremacist, and on and on ... Hey did any regular lizards get banned? dang the one shot wonders were sure getting the stick on the Van Jones thread. Hey zombie I think you may well have been instrumental to Jones getting the boot, congrats if you're out there.

625 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:18:16am

re: #618 iceweasel

I'm not making this up -- they're there. If i could remember the thread(s) I'd yank them for you.

Anyway, the real point isn't that this is what CJ thinks too, but that I'm not defending ACORN, I'm not throwing around a partisan talking point, I'm merely debunking some of the conspiracy theories about ACORN.

I've not posted anything about a so-called conspiracy theory about ACORN. What they've done is documented fact.

626 Pianobuff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:18:32am

re: #621 lawhawk

I've already got that covered.

Ah. Very good, then.

627 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:18:54am

re: #615 ArmyWife

OK - the cart when before the horse here, agreed. But please read Lawhawks statements of the issue above - he hits the nail on the head, at least for me.

AW-- there have been tons of investigations, many of them initiated by tips ACORN itself passed on to the Feds on their own employees.

ACORN itself has been specifically exonerated in many of these-- as opposed to the guilty individual employees.

There's smoke here, but it's coming from the constantly burning fires of wingnut outrage, not reality.

628 avanti  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:18:57am

re: #608 iceweasel

Avanti, a Rasmussen poll? I'm shocked! ;)

Well, they like the conservative pollster. :)

629 turn  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:19:53am

re: #606 Ojoe

The morning Towercam, showing that the fire crews have kept extensive areas on the top of Mt. Wilson from burning up. Hats off to them. Mt. Wilson Observatory, San Gabriel Mountains of California, Pacific time zone.

Good morning all.


Morning ojoe, it's raining up here. There was one hell of a lighting storm at Doran Beach early Saturday morning. Knocked out a bunch of power in SF too.

630 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:20:36am

re: #622 lurking faith

I'm trying to stay out of the downding battle this morning, but you earned one by completely ignoring lawhawk's point, which is that there are actual regulations about what organizations may be involved in what types of government-related activities - such as the Census - and ACORN does not conform to the requirements.

It is and always was highly inappropriate for them, as a political organization, to be involved with the Census in ANY way. (Regardless of their honesty and competence or lack thereof.)

Interestingly, that isn't what the Census said about it. I'll be going with them and their statements, thanks.

631 avanti  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:21:11am

re: #623 haakondahl

That's because the rest are biased. Good Morning, you incidental enabler of Commies!

Maybe Rasmussen took the POTUS's speech as a opportunity to get its poll in line with the others./ Something strange happened. BRB, have to pick up a car from service.

632 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:21:27am

re: #615 ArmyWife

OK - the cart when before the horse here, agreed. But please read Lawhawks statements of the issue above - he hits the nail on the head, at least for me. I think an investigation is in order - an investigation is NOT (and shouldn't be) a rush to judgement. If Acorn ee and execs are all wearing wonderfully polished halos, then so be it. There is enough smoke here, however, to at least research potential fire.

I have no water to carry for ACORN--I don't think they're worth defending, and I don't think they're on the list of America's top thousand problems. An investigation, if warranted, would be fine.

But heck, let 'em investigate first. ;)

633 badger1970  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:22:06am

Poll numbers only mean anything if they show a trend. bo has be going down for awhile but the government indentured servants, read tax-payers, seem to like his speeches (or readings or lectures) for a short period of time. His playbook has been, when down, get to the nearest pulpit and do the preaching that got him elected in the first place. By the time the people figure out nothing of substance was said, time for another pr stunt.

634 Pianobuff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:22:58am

re: #633 badger1970

Poll numbers only mean anything if they show a trend. bo has be going down for awhile but the government indentured servants, read tax-payers, seem to like his speeches (or readings or lectures) for a short period of time. His playbook has been, when down, get to the nearest pulpit and do the preaching that got him elected in the first place. By the time the people figure out nothing of substance was said, time for another pr stunt.

It is true, though, that Obama got a several point bounce over the past week.

635 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:23:07am

re: #627 iceweasel

AW-- there have been tons of investigations, many of them initiated by tips ACORN itself passed on to the Feds on their own employees.

ACORN itself has been specifically exonerated in many of these-- as opposed to the guilty individual employees.

There's smoke here, but it's coming from the constantly burning fires of wingnut outrage, not reality.

Ice, I believe there is reasonable cause here to be concerned. Not because there's any indication that ACORN is unlawful at the highest levels of the organization, but for all the reasons listed by lawhawk and others, there is serious cause to be concerned and warrant further investigation. And it isn't just "wingnut outrage" causing that concern, but the actions of ACORN itself that's creating reasons for people to be outraged.

636 avanti  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:23:11am

re: #633 badger1970

Poll numbers only mean anything if they show a trend. bo has be going down for awhile but the government indentured servants, read tax-payers, seem to like his speeches (or readings or lectures) for a short period of time. His playbook has been, when down, get to the nearest pulpit and do the preaching that got him elected in the first place. By the time the people figure out nothing of substance was said, time for another pr stunt.

That's why I noticed, the trend down stopped, and is now trending up.

637 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:23:27am

With all the shit flinging about, I wanted to repost something I posted above because I think it is important:

I read that Col. Ilan Ramon's son, Lt. Assaf Ramon died in an F-16 crash yesterday. Condolences to his family and heartfelt thank you for everything that family has given to the State of Israel and the Jewish people.

If I am not mistaken (but may very well be), Col. Ramon was one of the pilots who took out Iraq's reactor. If so, We Americans, and the rest of the world, owe an additional debt of gratitude.

Now back to your regularly scheduled flame-war.

638 SecondComing  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:23:48am

How can anyone in Congress sign onto Ron Paul's "audit the fed" bill with his book coming out in a couple of days: End the Fed ?

639 Flyers1974  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:23:51am

re: #604 iceweasel

Ice, I haven't paid much attention to the mighty Acorn so I don't have too much to say on the subject. From the little I read, I assume they're bad guys. I saw you make a comparison to Halliburton and i did as well some time ago, and that seems a good illustration if not a perfect analogy. Halliburton may have done some sleazy things, I assume they did. But despite the left's use of them in their attacks, its existance did not effect Bush/Cheney's decision to go to war. No major events would have been different but for Halliburton. I'd say the same for Acorn.

640 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:24:08am

re: #611 Spenser (with an S)

Oh, you mean the one guy who apologized? For the thing that happened all the time in the past, without apology? That thing?

Yep. Because the MSM has ensured that that one thing is the only thing that matters now.
And I'm not even mad at him for it. Oh, we can wail and gnash our teeth, but if it hadn't been that, it would have been something else. The media is still bathing in the warm golden flow, er, glow of their own elected President.

641 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:24:51am

re: #625 MandyManners

I've not posted anything about a so-called conspiracy theory about ACORN.


That just proves that you are part of the conspiracy.

642 Pianobuff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:25:06am

re: #638 SecondComing

How can anyone in Congress sign onto Ron Paul's "audit the fed" bill with his book coming out in a couple of days: End the Fed ?

The house is going the populist route. The bill will never make it through the Senate (in my opinion).

643 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:25:25am

re: #639 Flyers1974

Ice, I haven't paid much attention to the mighty Acorn so I don't have too much to say on the subject. From the little I read, I assume they're bad guys. I saw you make a comparison to Halliburton and i did as well some time ago, and that seems a good illustration if not a perfect analogy. Halliburton may have done some sleazy things, I assume they did. But despite the left's use of them in their attacks, its existance did not effect Bush/Cheney's decision to go to war. No major events would have been different but for Halliburton. I'd say the same for Acorn.

No, that would be the Carlisle Group///

644 Charpete67  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:25:41am

re: #627 iceweasel

AW-- there have been tons of investigations, many of them initiated by tips ACORN itself passed on to the Feds on their own employees.

ACORN itself has been specifically exonerated in many of these-- as opposed to the guilty individual employees.

There's smoke here, but it's coming from the constantly burning fires of wingnut outrage, not reality.

...or the video's of their employees trying to show pimps how to avoid taxes on their international child prostitution business...

645 John Neverbend  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:25:52am

re: #637 Creeping Eruption

If I am not mistaken (but may very well be), Col. Ramon was one of the pilots who took out Iraq's reactor.

Yes, you are correct. Ramon senior died, as is well known, in the Columbia accident.

646 Pianobuff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:25:55am

re: #625 MandyManners

I've not posted anything about a so-called conspiracy theory about ACORN. What they've done is documented fact.

Yes, you are playing your role perfectly. ;)

647 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:26:06am

re: #637 Creeping Eruption

With all the shit flinging about, I wanted to repost something I posted above because I think it is important:


If I am not mistaken (but may very well be), Col. Ramon was one of the pilots who took out Iraq's reactor. If so, We Americans, and the rest of the world, owe an additional debt of gratitude.

Now back to your regularly scheduled flame-war.

Yes, Ilan Ramon was part of the team that took out Osirak. A remarkable life. It's a tragedy his widow has now lost her son as well.

648 lurking faith  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:26:54am

re: #547 iceweasel

Perhaps you should read this sentence over and over a few times, and then meditate upon what it means to prove a negative.

Perhaps you should reread your link over and over. I know exactly what it means. Absence of evidence is not the same thing as evidence of absence.

Failure to prove something is true does not prove that the thing is false.

At best, it could be considered as tending to support the claim of falseness. (Again, I am not speaking in the legal sense here.)

649 badger1970  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:26:54am

re: #644 Charpete67

...or the video's of their employees trying to show pimps how to avoid taxes on their international child prostitution business...

Some how that evidence is tainted. // *hic* Baltimore DA

650 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:26:55am

re: #635 reine.de.tout

Ice, I believe there is reasonable cause here to be concerned. Not because there's any indication that ACORN is unlawful at the highest levels of the organization, but for all the reasons listed by lawhawk and others, there is serious cause to be concerned and warrant further investigation. And it isn't just "wingnut outrage" causing that concern, but the actions of ACORN itself that's creating reasons for people to be outraged.

That's all fair enough reine. I really don't care if there's a fed inquiry into ACORN or whatever. If one needs to be done it should be.

I only object to people peddling misinformation about it, and a lot of that is coming at us from the wingnut brigade-- lies about voter fraud, conspiracy theories, all kinds of crazy.

ACORN isn't the sinister all-powerful organsation some people have claimed, that's all.

651 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:27:49am

re: #587 Flyers1974

Taking the military option off the table, to the extent he did, I can understand if no one believes its an option in the first place (also, there is no reason that cannot be revoked of course.) The rest, I have no theory.

Militarily, all we have to do is bomb the doors of the nuclear complexes, and the sole refinery where they turn crude into gasoline. There will be Hell to pay, but a lot less than if Iran gets nukes.

652 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:28:28am

re: #650 iceweasel


ACORN isn't the sinister all-powerful organsation some people have claimed, that's all.

I don't think so either, which isn't to say that there isn't a whole lot of slime under their rocks.

653 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:29:01am

re: #617 MandyManners

Does anyone know if former members of SDS were involved in the founding of ACORN of are currently involved?

What about SEIU ties to ACORN?

Wade Rathke, Founder of ACORN, runs an SEIU local.

654 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:29:24am

re: #604 iceweasel

No one has argued that it does.

That's probably why ACORN itself turned in tips about some of their staff they suspected was involved in voter reg fruad.

Read the rest of my comment 599, please.
Are you really unwilling to recognize the obvious appearance of management complicity and wrongdoing in connection with the voter registration fraud?

655 badger1970  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:29:30am

re: #650 iceweasel

Now how any billions ill gotten lucre have they received? I say that's a lot of damaged that could be bought down upon (by people who have issues balancing a checkbook).

656 VioletTiger  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:29:43am

re: #596 ArmyWife

Supposedly there are more videos, too. I shall wait the requisite 48 hours before making judgement as to whether the additional videos are fact, or fiction.


If indeed they knew that it had been tried for 'months', why wouldn't they put out a memo to every office saying 'watch out for a fake pimp and prostitute'?

657 Pianobuff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:30:09am

re: #652 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think so either, which isn't to say that there isn't a whole lot of slime under their rocks.

The point I was trying to make earlier is that there is a toxicity at ACORN, whether it is due to laxness, corporate culture, leadership, etc. Whether it's due to malevolence or incompetence, it's not a place I like seeing my taxes go.

658 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:30:16am

re: #639 Flyers1974

Ice, I haven't paid much attention to the mighty Acorn so I don't have too much to say on the subject. From the little I read, I assume they're bad guys. I saw you make a comparison to Halliburton and i did as well some time ago, and that seems a good illustration if not a perfect analogy. Halliburton may have done some sleazy things, I assume they did. But despite the left's use of them in their attacks, its existance did not effect Bush/Cheney's decision to go to war. No major events would have been different but for Halliburton. I'd say the same for Acorn.

yes, that's exactly what I think. ACORN:right as HALLIBURTON:left. For those who remember the whole analogy exercise on standardised tests.

A convenient boogeyman each side attributes insane power and influence to.

659 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:31:37am

re: #637 Creeping Eruption

Ilon Ramon was one the pilots involved in planning and carrying out the Osirak mission, and he died in the Columbia shuttle crash.

660 Rugby the Rat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:32:23am

re: #558 lawhawk


And where do you get the KGB/stasi crapola? The organization's various offices as shown in the video should be investigated - precisely because of the criminality and statements made therein. That's not KGB tactics - but in the province of lawful law enforcement.

Wanting to see the census bureau have no relationship with organizations with troubled backgrounds is a completely sensible and absolutely crucial to maintaining the nonpartisan and trustworthiness of the census.

Nor are such calls the acts of a stasi or kgb.

um HELLO there! i am ramona and i am a little girl rat and i am logging on through my late uncel rugby's LFG acct while the Homo sapient (sp?) is away from the computer. anyways i just watned to say

CHEEESES FUCKIGN RICE,, how bad are your reading comprehensile skills?! okay let us look at what the ice lady actualy wrote:

They're a sloppy organisation. They are no longer a census partner because of the Wingnut Freakout, no other reason. I really don't understand the desire to turn them into the KGB or the Stasi or whatever-- except as yet another manifestation of ODS.

cleary the ''kgb or stasi'' ref is attached to the ACORN PEOPLEe, not to the law enfrocement officers who are investiaging acorn! i am not even 3 mos. old and have a brain the sixze of a raisin and i had no trouble understnding this! what's your excuse hmm?!?

ok im going to sherd some paper now to unwind...

LOVE, RAMONA

ps. but ii mean a jumbo-size raisin, not one of those little dried currant thinsg

661 Charpete67  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:32:32am

re: #658 iceweasel

yes, that's exactly what I think. ACORN:right as HALLIBURTON:left. For those who remember the whole analogy exercise on standardised tests.

A convenient boogeyman each side attributes insane power and influence to.

refresh my memory...what exactly did Haliburton do?...or are you referring to how Cheney got Bush to lie and start a war so Haliburton would get defense contracts and Cheney would get rich...

662 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:32:34am

re: #654 Spare O'Lake

Read the rest of my comment 599, please.
Are you really unwilling to recognize the obvious appearance of management complicity and wrongdoing in connection with the voter registration fraud?

There is no evidence of high level complicity in or encouragement of voter fraud.

663 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:33:59am

re: #658 iceweasel

yes, that's exactly what I think. ACORN:right as HALLIBURTON:left. For those who remember the whole analogy exercise on standardised tests.

A convenient boogeyman each side attributes insane power and influence to.

Bzzz wrong. If anything, Halliburton's influence and power was far greater - and known because of Halliburton's contractual work in Iraq and known ties to the Administration. Those ties were repeatedly investigated by the media and highlighted to insinuate malefaction.

ACORN's ties have been purposefully downplayed ACORN and the President and by the media and even Factcheck admits as much.

664 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:34:10am

re: #660 Rugby the Rat

Dear Ramona, I don't know who you are but I love you forever for this one line:

i am not even 3 mos. old and have a brain the sixze of a raisin and i had no trouble understnding this!

xoxox
Beezus

665 StudSupreme  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:35:17am

re: #13 SixDegrees

Hey - Blow Me. I'm not a foot soldier for anyone, you butt blister.

666 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:35:35am

re: #660 Rugby the Rat

Hi Ramona!

667 SurferDoc  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:35:37am

Let's not be too hard on ACORN. Nothing is all bad. Think of all the people Jeffrey Dahmer didn't eat.

668 Rancher  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:36:54am
Conditions are fundamentally sound

As we come out of the last recession everyone is ready for a recovery. Inflation is right around the corner but there is no sign of it yet so we blissfully sign on to more and more government spending while belittling those of us crying a warning. A huge protest against bigger government is discounted because of fringe kooks who have latched on to the movement.

But conditions are not sound. Governments like bubbles, hugely inflated markets mean higher tax revenues and a false sense of wealth for the populace. What happened in the housing market could very well happen again in the $700 billion commercial mortgage market. Even basic inflation is liked by governments with huge debt loads, like the United States which has a debt of 61% of GDP. Inflation is an automatic tax on everyone but one the politicians can duck responsibility for. So we print money for stimulus and cash for clunkers and free health care for everyone while anyone who descents is branded as a racist tea-bagger.

669 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:36:55am

re: #663 lawhawk

So you're claiming that my analogy is flawed because halliburton really WAS influential, more so than ACORN, and you think this proves...that ACORN is more of a problem than halliburton?

Really, just stop. I feel sorry for you now.

670 lurking faith  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:37:00am

re: #615 ArmyWife

Yes, a thousand updings, yes.

671 Charpete67  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:37:45am

re: #669 iceweasel

So you're claiming that my analogy is flawed because halliburton really WAS influential, more so than ACORN, and you think this proves...that ACORN is more of a problem than halliburton?

Really, just stop. I feel sorry for you now.

not what he said...read again carefully.

672 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:38:27am

re: #667 SurferDoc

Let's not be too hard on ACORN. Nothing is all bad. Think of all the people Jeffrey Dahmer didn't eat.

LOL. Being one of those lucky Milwaukeeans, I wholeheartedly agree.

673 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:40:06am

re: #671 Charpete67

not what he said...read again carefully.

Rebut the actual comment? Not going to happen.

/much easier just to pile on the condescending snark

674 Flyers1974  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:40:14am

re: #661 Charpete67

refresh my memory...what exactly did Haliburton do?...or are you referring to how Cheney got Bush to lie and start a war so Haliburton would get defense contracts and Cheney would get rich...

I don't think she said this at all. In fact she is saying that that type of nonsense by the left is the same as the right re: Acorn.

675 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:40:20am

re: #662 iceweasel

There is no evidence of high level complicity in or encouragement of voter fraud.

You shifted by omitting the word REGISTRATION.
Are you conceding that there appears to be high level malfeasance in relation to the voter registrations?

676 non obama mama  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:40:20am

Hello, all.

I have been reading about the Tea party threads in horror. (horror that there was really such much hate out there)

But thankfully, not all activity in the Capitol was of the scary kind. Check out Responsible for Equality and Liberty, which held a rally for human rights on September 12.

[Link: realcourage.org...]

677 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:41:44am
678 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:41:51am

re: #619 lawhawk

Why should it succeed even once? Who do they have working there and why are you attempting to downplay the criminality?

If you think Motor Voter is bad, wait until The One gets all of our Communities Organized.

This is what's at stake. ACORN supporting Candidate Obama is history. President Obama supporting ACORN is the game now. Will the media allow it?

679 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:43:22am

re: #675 Spare O'Lake

You shifted by omitting the word REGISTRATION.
Are you conceding that there appears to be high level malfeasance in relation to the voter registrations?

No.

680 SurferDoc  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:43:35am

re: #678 haakondahl

If you think Motor Voter is bad, wait until The One gets all of our Communities Organized.

This is what's at stake. ACORN supporting Candidate Obama is history. President Obama supporting ACORN is the game now. Will the media allow it?

Not if James O'Keefe can help it.

681 Flyers1974  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:44:01am

re: #651 haakondahl

Militarily, all we have to do is bomb the doors of the nuclear complexes, and the sole refinery where they turn crude into gasoline. There will be Hell to pay, but a lot less than if Iran gets nukes.

That would solve the Iran/Nuke issue no question. But I don't think anyone will do this.

682 midwestgak  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:44:15am

Morning/Afternoon Lizards.

Any good news to talk about today?

683 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:44:16am

re: #616 SanFranciscoZionist

My experience, however, has been that a great majority of gay men treat women with respect.

When you're in the room.

684 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:44:19am
685 John Neverbend  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:45:06am

re: #372 haakondahl

...My fucking point was that the fucking headlines didn't match the fucking stories, and that the same fucking mistake, if it even is a fucking mistake at all, had been made by two fuckity-fuck-fucking newsfuckingpapers.

Wow, so many f-words. As a result, does this paragraph constitute a sort of clusterfuck or maybe fuckcluster?

686 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:45:17am

re: #669 iceweasel

So you're claiming that my analogy is flawed because halliburton really WAS influential, more so than ACORN, and you think this proves...that ACORN is more of a problem than halliburton?

Really, just stop. I feel sorry for you now.

That's the third time. You just haven't been the same since, oh, about the time Coracle burst on the scene.

687 Charpete67  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:45:31am

re: #674 Flyers1974

I don't think she said this at all. In fact she is saying that that type of nonsense by the left is the same as the right re: Acorn.

I understand...my point is that the "conspiracy" that people attribute to Halliburton has never been proved...so, IMHO, nutty. The "conspiracy" tied to ACORN is on video and in court records and indictments. I get it...they have never been convicted to "voter fraud"...but, that may be the only thing they won't been convicted of.

I would also be curious to find out what percentage of voter registrations were for Republicans vs Democrats...

688 badger1970  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:45:55am

re: #667 SurferDoc

Was that supposed to be funny?

689 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:46:16am

re: #686 haakondahl

That's the third time. You just haven't been the same since, oh, about the time Coracle burst on the scene.

What are you suggesting?

690 lurking faith  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:46:29am

re: #630 iceweasel

Sure; you're always free to take the PR statements at face value.

It's a long time since I've been that un-cynical, though. Also, this is an instance where I actually know something that I absolutely cannot say publicly or even hint at beyond saying that there is an element of spin here. Shit.

BTW, I don't mean the first part of this post to sound snarky, but I can't seem to find a better way to express it. Sorry.

691 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:46:55am

re: #685 John Neverbend

Wow, so many f-words. As a result, does this paragraph constitute a sort of clusterfuck or maybe fuckcluster?

Hmmm. I would ponder this, but I try to keep recursion away from the F-word.

692 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:47:33am

re: #682 midwestgak

Morning/Afternoon Lizards.

Any good news to talk about today?

The weather. The Green Bay Packers. After that, it seems pretty much everything else has gone to hell in a hand basket. How are you this am?

693 Rancher  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:47:35am

re: #662 iceweasel

There is no evidence of high level complicity in or encouragement of voter fraud.

Aside from monetary incentives.

694 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:47:40am

re: #687 Charpete67

I would also be curious to find out what percentage of voter registrations were for Republicans vs Democrats...

/take a wild guess

695 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:48:10am

Hey, wait a sec -- why are there sunflower-seed husks all over my keyboard?

696 John Neverbend  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:48:16am

re: #361 haakondahl

The UN fails at serious tasks because it excels at fool's errands.

Speaking of fool's errands, it's UN week in New York again, oh joy. That means massive roadblocks around mid-town Manhattan on the east side.

697 Pianobuff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:48:20am

re: #682 midwestgak

Morning/Afternoon Lizards.

Any good news to talk about today?

How about the latest Pew Poll, titled "Press Accuracy Rating Hits Two Decade Low"?

The public’s assessment of the accuracy of news stories is now at its lowest level in more than two decades of Pew Research surveys, and Americans’ views of media bias and independence now match previous lows.

Just 29% of Americans say that news organizations generally get the facts straight, while 63% say that news stories are often inaccurate. In the initial survey in this series about the news media’s performance in 1985, 55% said news stories were accurate while 34% said they were inaccurate. That percentage had fallen sharply by the late 1990s and has remained low over the last decade.

Surprised?

More at the link.

698 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:48:22am

re: #669 iceweasel

So you're claiming that my analogy is flawed because halliburton really WAS influential, more so than ACORN, and you think this proves...that ACORN is more of a problem than halliburton?

Really, just stop. I feel sorry for you now.

You really don't get it - the two are SEPARATE and DISTINCT. Why conflate the issues by bringing in Halliburton? That was exactly my point. I didn't even attempt to equate the two. Again with that reading comprehension thing again.

You continue to ignore the fact that ACORN's people engaged in illegal actions. Period.

As for misreading above about the kgb and stasi, I concede the point. I read that wrong.

The personal attacks were not appreciated above either. I don't do them. I expect the same. Moreover, I'm glad you're more than willing to overlook the multiple typos and grammatical errors in a paragraph attacking my reading comprehension.

699 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:49:07am

re: #690 lurking faith

Sure; you're always free to take the PR statements at face value.

It's a long time since I've been that un-cynical, though. Also, this is an instance where I actually know something that I absolutely cannot say publicly or even hint at beyond saying that there is an element of spin here. Shit.

BTW, I don't mean the first part of this post to sound snarky, but I can't seem to find a better way to express it. Sorry.

I'm not taking PR statements at facevalue; I'm waiting for anyone to bring any kind of proof of voter fraud, not voter registration fraud, and/or conspiracy to commit voter fraud/involvement in voter fraud by the organisation.

No one has.

700 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:50:06am
701 Charpete67  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:50:29am

re: #694 Killian Bundy

/take a wild guess

...and there would be no problem with them being involved in the census...nothing to see here...move along...

702 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:51:02am

re: #700 MikeySDCA

OT

Joe Wilson isn't really named Joe.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

HE'S A LIAR!!!

703 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:52:10am

re: #698 lawhawk

You really don't get it - the two are SEPARATE and DISTINCT. Why conflate the issues by bringing in Halliburton? That was exactly my point. I didn't even attempt to equate the two. Again with that reading comprehension thing again.


It's an analogy.

I've mentioned, over and over and over, that individual ACORN employees engaged in voter reg fraud.

So for you to claim that I'm ignoring or excusing illegal activities by the employees does suggest that you have a reading comprehension problem.

704 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:52:14am

re: #701 Charpete67

...and there would be no problem with them being involved in the census...nothing to see here...move along...

/or receiving federal funds intended for non-partisan political activity

705 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:52:36am

re: #679 iceweasel

No.

Please make sure to remove your blinkers and rose coloured glasses before you cross the street.

706 johnnyreb  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:52:36am

re: #699 iceweasel

I'm not taking PR statements at facevalue; I'm waiting for anyone to bring any kind of proof of voter fraud, not voter registration fraud, and/or conspiracy to commit voter fraud/involvement in voter fraud by the organisation.

No one has.

Folks, look at those goal posts fly! That was at least 50 yards in 10 seconds.

707 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:52:43am
708 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:53:01am

I've lost power twice today, four times yesterday. The electric company is doing something to upgrade something. The outtages are not long but, when it takes up to seven minutes to restart my computer, I get rather frustrated and far behind here.

Sand in mah shorts.

709 midwestgak  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:53:38am

re: #692 Creeping Eruption

The weather. The Green Bay Packers. After that, it seems pretty much everything else has gone to hell in a hand basket. How are you this am?

I'm okay, even though my Bears lost not only their first game (to you know who), they also lost Urlacher for the season. Humph.

710 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:53:46am

re: #693 Rancher

Aside from monetary incentives.

And glaring lack of supervision.

711 Flyers1974  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:53:54am

re: #687 Charpete67

I understand...my point is that the "conspiracy" that people attribute to Halliburton has never been proved...so, IMHO, nutty. The "conspiracy" tied to ACORN is on video and in court records and indictments. I get it...they have never been convicted to "voter fraud"...but, that may be the only thing they won't been convicted of.

I would also be curious to find out what percentage of voter registrations were for Republicans vs Democrats...

Right. Its not a perfect analogy, only a comparison of entities that I think the influence of which were blown far out of proportion by the other side. In other words, Acorn's ability to influence events by illegal activity isn't in accord with the tremendous amount of attention they've recieved. They are now a household name. And I'd say that an extremely high number of those registrations were for Democrats - I'm guessing they primarily operate in Democtratic strongholds, i.e., cities. The question is, how many voters were illegally registered or votes illegally cast due to Acorn.

712 Charpete67  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:54:06am

re: #709 midwestgak

I'm okay, even though my Bears lost not only their first game (to you know who), they also lost Urlacher for the season. Humph.

the season?...I have not seen that.

713 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:54:21am

re: #705 Spare O'Lake

Please make sure to remove your blinkers and rose coloured glasses before you cross the street.

Sadly, until Obama care is enacted I don't get my rosecoloured glasses, or my friendly talking pony to help me cross streets. :)

714 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:54:34am

re: #703 iceweasel

And I keep repeating over and over that the videos suggest that there's a problem that's far more troublesome with providing advice on illegal activities.

Keep ignoring that. Keep trying to talk past that. I'm sure you will.

715 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:55:19am
716 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:55:46am

re: #694 Killian Bundy

[Video]

/take a wild guess

Huh. I would probably really enjoy a conversation with her. Cheerful and motivating is a pretty good combination. Now I would argue against her until the fucking sun burned out, but she seems like good people.

Her organization, on the other hand, is a pile of shit that needs to be ruthlessly crushed. But crush organizations, not people.

717 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:56:17am

re: #714 lawhawk

And I keep repeating over and over that the videos suggest that there's a problem that's far more troublesome with providing advice on illegal activities.

Keep ignoring that. Keep trying to talk past that. I'm sure you will.

They suggest that Faux News had a vendetta.

718 Rancher  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:56:42am

re: #676 non obama mama

Hello, all.

I have been reading about the Tea party threads in horror. (horror that there was really such much hate out there)

But thankfully, not all activity in the Capitol was of the scary kind. Check out Responsible for Equality and Liberty, which held a rally for human rights on September 12.

I don't know how many hate signs per capita were out there but Mark Hemingway at NRO didn't see much hate. Cherry picking kooks out of the tens if not hundreds of thousand of protestors is pretty easy in any demonstration.

719 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:57:39am

BBIAB folks. My honey's calling.

720 Charpete67  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:57:39am

re: #711 Flyers1974

Right. Its not a perfect analogy, only a comparison of entities that I think the influence of which were blown far out of proportion by the other side. In other words, Acorn's ability to influence events by illegal activity isn't in accord with the tremendous amount of attention they've recieved. They are now a household name. And I'd say that an extremely high number of those registrations were for Democrats - I'm guessing they primarily operate in Democtratic strongholds, i.e., cities. The question is, how many voters were illegally registered or votes illegally cast due to Acorn.

agreed...we don't know...but...that is why conservatives are nervous about this...if you look at all the smoke, it smacks of voter fraud or attempts to swing elections. I'm from MN...Franken "won" by just a couple hundred votes. If ACORN registered 5,000 new voters and only 5% actually voted...that's the difference.

721 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:57:45am

re: #718 Rancher

Read the threads Charles put up yesterday. The infestation of hate amongst the protesters was far more systemic than "cherry picking".

722 badger1970  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:57:48am

re: #709 midwestgak

I was hoping he'd be back. A football player in the line of Butkus and Nitschke. Good luck with Pittsburgh.

723 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:58:35am

re: #715 taxfreekiller

Or, only individual CIA integrators engaged in harsh interrogations.
Therefor the CIA should not be investigated.

some one e-mail Nancy Pelosi

TFK, you have been downright readable these days. I have been updinging you here and there. I think that you think much faster than you type, so I appreciate it when you take the time to get it all on paper, as it were.

724 Pianobuff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:58:51am

I'm going to beat Killgore to this one...

Glenn Beck's '9-12' logo based on communist and socialist designs

725 SurferDoc  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:58:51am

re: #721 thedopefishlives

Read the threads Charles put up yesterday. The infestation of hate amongst the protesters was far more systemic than "cherry picking".

Yeah. I saw all the burned cars and the broken windows.

726 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:59:09am

re: #719 iceweasel

BBIAB folks. My honey's calling.

"Let me be clear..."

727 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:59:51am

re: #726 haakondahl

"Let me be clear..."

What can I say? All's fair in love and politics.

728 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:00:53am

Yes, yes, mean, nasty Fox News, who aren't even affiliated with the makers of the videos, made incriminating statements spew out of the poor, innocent ACORN workers' mouths!

/must have been telepathy

729 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:00:56am

re: #724 Pianobuff

I'm going to beat Killgore to this one...

Glenn Beck's '9-12' logo based on communist and socialist designs

Oswald!

730 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:02:30am

re: #724 Pianobuff

I'm going to beat Killgore to this one...

Glenn Beck's '9-12' logo based on communist and socialist designs


Go to Becks site and find it.

731 lurking faith  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:02:35am

re: #665 StudSupreme

Gotta love reasoned arguments like yours. You are such a shining example of the best the movement has to offer.
///

732 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:03:22am

re: #708 MandyManners

I've lost power twice today, four times yesterday. The electric company is doing something to upgrade something. The outtages are not long but, when it takes up to seven minutes to restart my computer, I get rather frustrated and far behind here.

Sand in mah shorts.

Add the chance of disk corruption every time the power goes out, and you should get a UPS. (Not the delivery guy, but an Uninterruptible Power Supply.)
Or use a laptop.
(And if you're losing power while the computer is running, every so often run a disk check. I suggest you do this once a day when you can go away from the computer for 20 minutes or so.
In XP and later, open My Computer. Right-click on C:
Pick the Tools tab, and click on the Check Disk For errors button.
Select Automatically Fix Errors, and OK.
It will tell you that it can't do this until you reboot, so schedule it for the next reboot.
Repeat this for all your hard drives.
Reboot when you can let it run, and have 20 minutes or so to let it run.

If there is disk corruption, letting it go can only make it worse.

733 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:04:05am

re: #708 MandyManners

I've lost power twice today, four times yesterday. The electric company is doing something to upgrade something. The outtages are not long but, when it takes up to seven minutes to restart my computer, I get rather frustrated and far behind here.

Sand in mah shorts.

Oh yes, whatever you do, don't piss up a power line. You can get a nasty shock that way.
But feel free to tell the power company to do so. ///

734 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:05:22am

re: #709 midwestgak

I'm okay, even though my Bears lost not only their first game (to you know who), they also lost Urlacher for the season. Humph.

Didn't realize he was out for the season. (seriously)

Sucks to be a Bears fan. GO PACK!

735 haakondahl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:06:18am

re: #725 SurferDoc

Yeah. I saw all the burned cars and the broken windows.

Yeah, the flaming banlieux (France) and the smashed storefronts (Seattle).

736 Pianobuff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:06:56am
737 midwestgak  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:06:58am

re: #712 Charpete67

the season?...I have not seen that.

Bye Urlacher

Sob

738 Dianna  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:07:43am

Good morning!

Before I plunge into actually working, I have a report which should make you folks laugh.

Yesterday, I dropped by Walgreens. Outside, a man was ranting that the government is covering up an impending solar event that will cook half the planet!

I gently smiled and edged past him to get in. On my way out, he was repeating this lunacy to his latest victim, a mid-30's type with a quizzical expression. In mercy, I pointed out that the book 30 Seconds After merely pointed out electrical transmission problems, not that half the planet was going to cook; and that the government has been lazy about creating backups for transmission towers, which is no big surprise.

I nodded and walked away, while the ranter tried to figure out how to reply.

There is much craziness abroad in the world.

739 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:07:54am

re: #732 Kosh's Shadow

Add the chance of disk corruption every time the power goes out, and you should get a UPS. (Not the delivery guy, but an Uninterruptible Power Supply.)
Or use a laptop.
(And if you're losing power while the computer is running, every so often run a disk check. I suggest you do this once a day when you can go away from the computer for 20 minutes or so.
In XP and later, open My Computer. Right-click on C:
Pick the Tools tab, and click on the Check Disk For errors button.
Select Automatically Fix Errors, and OK.
It will tell you that it can't do this until you reboot, so schedule it for the next reboot.
Repeat this for all your hard drives.
Reboot when you can let it run, and have 20 minutes or so to let it run.

If there is disk corruption, letting it go can only make it worse.

Only if he's wearing those brown shorts 'cause tight butts drive me nuts.

As for the rest, I have no idea what you're talking about but, I'll try to figure it out and how to do it with Vista.

Why do I need to do it?

740 Joshua Cohen  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:08:25am

Today there is a new Michale Yon article about Pedro

Link here.

741 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:08:45am

re: #736 Pianobuff

The Boob Czar?

She is a Czar. She has a fuzzy hat.

742 Rancher  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:08:48am

ACORN's influence in voter fraud registration pales in comparison to the influence it had in pushing sub-prime lending IMHO.re: #721 thedopefishlives

743 Charpete67  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:08:51am

re: #737 midwestgak

Bye Urlacher

Sob

ouch...sorry to hear that...go purple...:)

744 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:09:03am

re: #737 midwestgak

Bye Urlacher

Sob

Da Bears were never going to amount to much this season anyway so it's better that your expectations get crushed in week one.

/you'll suffer less

745 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:09:08am

re: #738 Dianna

Good morning!

Before I plunge into actually working, I have a report which should make you folks laugh.

Yesterday, I dropped by Walgreens. Outside, a man was ranting that the government is covering up an impending solar event that will cook half the planet!

I gently smiled and edged past him to get in. On my way out, he was repeating this lunacy to his latest victim, a mid-30's type with a quizzical expression. In mercy, I pointed out that the book 30 Seconds After merely pointed out electrical transmission problems, not that half the planet was going to cook; and that the government has been lazy about creating backups for transmission towers, which is no big surprise.

I nodded and walked away, while the ranter tried to figure out how to reply.

There is much craziness abroad in the world.

A Lizard fact-checks butts everywhere.

746 midwestgak  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:09:08am

re: #708 MandyManners

I didn't lose power, but got the double wheely thingys and had to reboot.

It is frustrating.

747 lurking faith  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:09:37am

re: #699 iceweasel

I'm not taking PR statements at facevalue; I'm waiting for anyone to bring any kind of proof of voter fraud, not voter registration fraud, and/or conspiracy to commit voter fraud/involvement in voter fraud by the organisation.

No one has.

I meant the Census Bureau's statements.
(I knew I should have hit quote, not reply!)

748 MJ  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:09:47am
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to Host Iftar Dinner

Washington, DC
September 14, 2009

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will host an Iftar dinner to celebrate the Holy Month of Ramadan on Tuesday, September 15, 2009, at 7:15p.m., in the Benjamin Franklin Room at the U.S. Department of State, Washington, D.C.

The Holy Month of Ramadan is a time devoted to worship, contemplation, charity, and fellowship, observed with a daily fast from sun up to sun down. At the end of each day, Muslims traditionally break the fast with a meal known as “Iftar.” Ramadan is the month Muslims believe the Qu’ran was revealed to the Prophet Mohamed; it is a month of reflection, generosity, and compassion for more than a billion Muslims worldwide.

Secretary Clinton will make remarks at approximately 7:45p.m...

[Link: www.state.gov...]

State Department suck up watch.
I have zero problem with the Sec. of State hosting this dinner.
However, why refer to it as the "Holy Month of Ramadan" ? It's Ramadan.
It's only "Holy" if you are a believer.
Why refer to the "Prophet" Muhammad. It's Muhammad. He's only a prophet if you are a believer. Does the State Department issue Christmas messages saying that they're celebrating the birth of "Jesus, the Saviour"?

749 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:10:13am

re: #746 midwestgak

I didn't lose power, but got the double wheely thingys and had to reboot.

It is frustrating.

I wonder why it takes me up to seven minutes to restart this computer.

750 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:10:52am

re: #683 Throbert McGee

When you're in the room.

That's better than a lot of straight men manage.

751 Dianna  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:10:55am

re: #745 MandyManners

A Lizard fact-checks butts everywhere.

What's funny, though, is that I'd not have had the faintest idea what he was ranting about had we not had a dinner party Saturday night where the subject of a solar flare came up.

752 SurferDoc  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:11:30am

re: #748 MJ

[Link: www.state.gov...]

State Department suck up watch.
I have zero problem with the Sec. of State hosting this dinner.
However, why refer to it as the "Holy Month of Ramadan" ? It's Ramadan.
It's only "Holy" if you are a believer.
Why refer to the "Prophet" Muhammad. It's Muhammad. He's only a prophet if you are a believer. Does the State Department issue Christmas messages saying that they're celebrating the birth of "Jesus, the Saviour"?

Asskissing is the PC Flavor of the Decade.

753 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:12:03am

re: #748 MJ

[Link: www.state.gov...]

State Department suck up watch.
I have zero problem with the Sec. of State hosting this dinner.
However, why refer to it as the "Holy Month of Ramadan" ? It's Ramadan.
It's only "Holy" if you are a believer.
Why refer to the "Prophet" Muhammad. It's Muhammad. He's only a prophet if you are a believer. Does the State Department issue Christmas messages saying that they're celebrating the birth of "Jesus, the Saviour"?

to do so would be bad dhimmitude.

754 lurking faith  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:12:11am

re: #713 iceweasel

Sadly, until Obama care is enacted I don't get my rosecoloured glasses, or my friendly talking pony to help me cross streets. :)

Unicorn. We'll each get a unicorn.

755 Rancher  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:13:22am

re: #721 thedopefishlives

Read the threads Charles put up yesterday. The infestation of hate amongst the protesters was far more systemic than "cherry picking".

16 photos. Many more, it would take a week to list them all. OK lets multiply it by a factor of one hundred, say 1600 signs. Out of a crowd of, and lets lowball this estimate, 80,000. 2%

Damn them all.

756 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:14:06am

re: #738 Dianna

nodded and walked away, while the ranter tried to figure out how to reply

Would have been better if you came out of the store with a box of tinfoil, pulled out a 4 foot sheet and wrapped it around your head in front of him!

757 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:14:12am

Insurgents accidentally blow themselves up

758 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:15:33am

re: #756 sattv4u2

nodded and walked away, while the ranter tried to figure out how to reply

Would have been better if you came out of the store with a box of tinfoil, pulled out a 4 foot sheet and wrapped it around your head in front of him!


Ensure it is Reynolds brand. Generic tinfoil won't work against the government mind control rays. I work for the fed, ask me how I know...

759 Dianna  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:15:37am

re: #756 sattv4u2

nodded and walked away, while the ranter tried to figure out how to reply

Would have been better if you came out of the store with a box of tinfoil, pulled out a 4 foot sheet and wrapped it around your head in front of him!

I wouldn't have said a word, had he not cornered a victim.

760 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:16:06am

re: #739 MandyManners

Only if he's wearing those brown shorts 'cause tight butts drive me nuts.

As for the rest, I have no idea what you're talking about but, I'll try to figure it out and how to do it with Vista.

Why do I need to do it?

If the computer was writing to the disk when the power went out, what it was writing won't be correct. The disk has more than just data; it has information about where to find the data for each file, and what parts of the disk are in use and what are empty. This becomes inconsistent if the power goes out while Windows is writing this information.
Checkdisk corrects all this (except for missing data within a file)
In WinME and earlier, this was a big problem; less so in NT and the OS's that came from it, that use NTFS instead of Fat file systems.

As to how to do it, open Computer in Vista. Right click on C, and select "Properties" at the bottom.
CLick on the Tools tab.
Click on the Check Now button
Tell it to continue when it runs the User Account Control annoyance.
Make sure the box "Automatically fix file system errors" is checked.
Click Start
It will tell you it can't check while the disk is in use.
Click "Schedule disk check".
OK/Close all the dialogs.
If you have more than one hard drive, repeat for all the hard drives. (This only needs one reboot.)

When you have the time, reboot, and it will spend some time checking the disk before it comes up. Once you get the login screen, it is done.

761 badger1970  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:16:28am

re: #757 Killgore Trout

Once more, with feeling.

762 midwestgak  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:17:19am

re: #749 MandyManners

I wonder why it takes me up to seven minutes to restart this computer.

Is it a vintage 1988 model?/

763 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:17:45am

re: #756 sattv4u2

nodded and walked away, while the ranter tried to figure out how to reply

Would have been better if you came out of the store with a box of tinfoil, pulled out a 4 foot sheet and wrapped it around your head in front of him!

And made a second tinfoil hat and given it to him.

764 SurferDoc  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:17:59am

re: #756 sattv4u2

nodded and walked away, while the ranter tried to figure out how to reply

Would have been better if you came out of the store with a box of tinfoil, pulled out a 4 foot sheet and wrapped it around your head in front of him!

Some ideas are so crazy that tinfoil will not help. Only a Wearever saucepan with a chinstrap is enough protection. Very few people are aware of this.

765 Charpete67  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:18:28am

re: #758 rwdflynavy

dumbshits...let's take our kids out to set up a bomb...

766 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:18:48am
767 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:18:49am

re: #757 Killgore Trout

Insurgents accidentally blow themselves up



No virgins for them.
FAIL

768 badger1970  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:19:04am

re: #762 midwestgak

I feel yet another Mac v. PC pudknocker commercial.

769 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:19:30am

re: #757 Killgore Trout

Insurgents accidentally blow themselves up


Doubt they will be able to claim Work Comp for that work accident.

Hope the kid was ok.

770 midwestgak  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:19:59am

re: #768 badger1970

I feel yet another Mac v. PC pudknocker commercial.

lol

771 Charpete67  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:20:05am

re: #765 Charpete67

dumbshits...let's take our kids out to set up a bomb...

woops...I meant to reply to #757

772 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:20:06am

re: #762 midwestgak

Is it a vintage 1988 model?/

Compaq Presario, about 1.5 years old.

773 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:20:07am

re: #757 Killgore Trout

Great video, and it shows the lengths to which the US forces limited taking action when there were children in the area, to the point of wishing that kids would get out of the area to engage the terrorists.

Once again, clear evidence that the terrorists have no such compulsion.

774 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:20:41am

re: #766 buzzsawmonkey

You need to twirl the crank just right to get the spark to catch.

When do I let out the clutch?

775 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:22:16am

re: #772 MandyManners

Compaq Presario, about 1.5 years old.

How much memory? Minimum 2GB, but 4 GB works better.
I find that I have to wait at least 5 minutes after the login screen shows up, or the system tray icons aren't right, and I have to log out and in again, or sometimes, reboot.
That is my biggest annoyance with Vista.

776 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:23:05am
777 ladycatnip  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:23:40am

ACORN, Voter Fraud, the Subprime Mess and Ties to Barack Obama:

This election cycle, ACORN has attracted the attention of the FBI. The FBI has raided ACORN offices in Nevada and North Carolina. More sweeps of ACORN offices nationwide are expected.

In Nevada, it was discovered that the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys football team are registered to vote. The problem is, none of these football players are known to be legal residents of the state.

Evidence of ACORN's illegal activities have shown up in Missouri, Connecticut, Wisconson, Ohio, and Indiana. In Indianapolis it appears that a hundred and five percent of the population are registered to vote.

Why is the practice of registering fake people a danger to democracy? Many states do not have voter ID laws. Therefore anyone can show up at the polls claiming to be anyone, in theory at least, and vote. The potential for voter fraud, benefiting Barack Obama, is immense.

Seems this seedy practice is widespread across the nation. It also explains why voter registration fraud has the potential to be dangerous.

About their participation in the sub-prime debacle:

"ACORN recognized very early the opportunity presented by the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) of 1977. As Stanley Kurtz has reported, ACORN proudly touted "affirmative action" lending, and pressured banks to make subprime loans. Madeline Talbott, a Chicago ACORN leader, boasted of "dragging banks kicking and screaming" into dubious loans. And, as Sol Stern reported in City Journal, ACORN also found a remunerative niche as an "adviser" to banks seeking regulatory approval."

Obama was a lawyer for ACORN back in the mid-1990's and trained its staff.

A young lawyer, a community organizer himself, sued on behalf of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (Acorn) and won. The young lawyer was Barack Obama. Acorn later invited Obama to train its staff.

That smells to high heaven.

778 lurking faith  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:23:56am

re: #774 MandyManners

When do I let out the clutch?

As soon as you can tell the gears have meshed.

(I am now thinking of the old IT help line stories. My favorite was always the one about the pedal not working right.)

779 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:25:05am

re: #750 SanFranciscoZionist

That's better than a lot of straight men manage.

Well, that's a fair point.

780 debutaunt  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:25:56am

re: #701 Charpete67

...and there would be no problem with them being involved in the census...nothing to see here...move along...

I would like to know how much money ACORN has already been paid for pre-census work.

781 lurking faith  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:30:36am

re: #775 Kosh's Shadow

My Vista machine loads quickly, but then I got 8GB of RAM and have not filled the hard drive with too much garbage yet.

The little sales clerk didn't understand why I was turning up my nose at the 4GB and even 6GB configurations. "You'll probably never top those out," she said. Yeah, thanks, kid; topping out is not a goal in this particular instance.

782 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:37:44am

re: #781 lurking faith

My Vista machine loads quickly, but then I got 8GB of RAM and have not filled the hard drive with too much garbage yet.

The little sales clerk didn't understand why I was turning up my nose at the 4GB and even 6GB configurations. "You'll probably never top those out," she said. Yeah, thanks, kid; topping out is not a goal in this particular instance.

I believe 4 GB was the most available in the laptop I got.
And as a software developer, there is a fair amount of stuff on the machine that starts up.

783 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:54:10am

Judge Rejects Settlement Over Merrill Bonuses

The case involved $3.6 billion in bonuses that were paid by Merrill Lynch late last year, just as that firm was about to be merged with Bank of America. Neither company provided details of the bonuses to their shareholders, who voted on Dec. 5 to approve the merger.

The judge focused much of his criticism on the fact that the fine in the case would be paid by the bank’s shareholders, who were the ones that were supposed to have been injured by the lack of disclosure.

“It is quite something else for the very management that is accused of having lied to its shareholders to determine how much of those victims’ money should be used to make the case against the management go away,” the judge wrote.

784 Wendya  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:53:25am

re: #383 iceweasel

You're dinged down because that vid has been posted over and over again here, the people who made it went to several other ACORN offices first to try to get that footage, and failed. All of which was mentioned here.

Truth does hurt. That video shows nothing but the eagerness of Faux News to push a narrative, and the willingness of haters like you to buy it.

Three Acorn offices assisted them.

That we know to be a fact.

Acorn claims many others did not. We have no way of verifying their story.

This latest tape was made on August 4th. If multiple offices had turned them down over a month ago, you'd think Acorn wouldn't have been caught by surprise and they would have gone into damage control mode weeks ago. If they were an upstanding organization, they would have gotten ahead of the tapes, done their own investigation and taken the lead by firing the employees who "helped" the couple instead of waiting for the next shoe to drop and feigning outrage after each tape is released.

785 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:17:02pm

re: #784 Wendya

Three Acorn offices assisted them.

That we know to be a fact.

We know some individuals in three offices did. After other offices turned them away.

Get back to me when you have a conviction.

786 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:49:57pm

re: #785 iceweasel

We know some individuals in three offices did. After other offices turned them away.

Get back to me when you have a conviction.

Apparently the US Senate, including the vast majority of Democrats, has seen enough incriminating videos not to want to wait on a judge's gavel:

[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]

787 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 5:57:03pm

re: #786 Salamantis

Apparently the US Senate, including the vast majority of Democrats, has seen enough incriminating videos not to want to wait on a judge's gavel:

[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]

I should have added the vote count of the bill to defund ACORN:

83 for, 7 against.

I guess 10 missed the vote. Not unusual for the Senate, unfortunately.

So much for ACORN's government seed money, provided the bill also passes the House; after such an overwhelming Senate vote, I cannot see how it could fail to.

Unless Pelosi prevents it from coming up for a vote at all, that is. In spite of all the political flak that would come with such a blockage.

788 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 6:28:56pm
789 Wendya  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:53:51pm

re: #785 iceweasel

We know some individuals in three offices did. After other offices turned them away.

Get back to me when you have a conviction.

Interestingly enough, Bertha Lewis, Chief Organizer for Acorn claimed NY turned them away. Oops.

I almost feel sorry for Bertha. It's gotta be tough to be so thoroughly owned by two people who looked like they were auditioning for a pimp/hooker role in a Quentin Tarantino movie not once, not twice, but three and possibly more times (another shoe to drop tomorrow?)


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