Video: Bad Craziness in Washington DC

US News • Views: 5,695

Open talk of revolution, Hitler, Hitler Hitler, pictures of dead babies with a fanatic screaming “Repent,” and more people with signs that say, “We came unarmed … this time.”

Bad, bad craziness.

Liveleak Video

Here’s a Google search for ‘we came unarmed this time’. This open threat of violence is everywhere on the far right.

(Hat tip: Killgore.)

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867 comments
1 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:13:07pm

Crazies on the left. Crazies on the right.

2 bosforus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:14:27pm

Cue Stealers Wheel

3 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:14:33pm

My God. I'm beginning to think we might well have some medium-scale violence before long. These nuts are far enough gone to think its a good idea. God save us from this insanity.

4 Red Lion  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:15:22pm

Charles - The voice of reason!

5 Racer X  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:16:06pm

Pats win.

What a finish!

6 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:16:09pm

Jesus didn't have a comfy shoulder pad on the cross he carried.

7 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:16:11pm
8 bosforus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:16:45pm

re: #7 fatbert

T minus 5... 4...

9 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:16:48pm

Flounce!

10 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:17:11pm
11 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:17:42pm

Do not quote the flouncers.

12 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:17:58pm

re: #7 fatbert

And that's flounce number 1. I'll now take bets for how many more morons will flounce on this thread. Getting the number exact is worth ten updings.

13 Gang of One  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:17:58pm

Whoops. Charles, I totally understand if you delete my #10 for quoting the schmuck.

14 Gang of One  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:18:31pm

I apologize, he got flounced after I quoted him.

15 jaunte  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:19:02pm

These people in the video apparently didn't pay any attention to the last president's czars.

16 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:19:35pm

re: #1 DrNaughty

stuck in the middle with you...

17 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:20:04pm

re: #14 Gang of One

I apologize, he got flounced after I quoted him.

Point of order: he was banned after he flounced. Flouncing is something the flouncer initiates.

18 wee fury  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:20:28pm

I wish these people would write respectful letters itemizing their displeasure to their Congresspeople and the President. Or call them. Or e-mail them. And, stay home.

19 Gang of One  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:20:50pm

re: #17 Charles

Point of order: he was banned after he flounced. Flouncing is something the flouncer initiates.

Understood, Charles. Again, my apologies.

20 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:21:03pm

That one had four comments in four years.

21 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:21:14pm
22 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:21:23pm

let the flouceing begin!

23 schlagerman  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:21:27pm

re: #17 Charles

Charles, sorry if you explained this before, what is flouncing?

24 Gang of One  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:21:28pm

re: #20 Charles

That one had four comments in four years.

Sock puppet?

25 Gang of One  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:21:56pm

re: #21 DrNaughty


You're playing with fire, dude.

26 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:22:08pm
27 Racer X  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:22:16pm

This tea party crap is just getting embarrassing now.

Charles posted a few weeks ago that this was going to backfire big time. At that time I was unsure. I am now - this will be a major FAIL.

These clowns are being exposed as complete and utter morons.

28 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:22:24pm

re: #24 Gang of One

gift for understatement

29 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:22:53pm

Flounce #2!

30 Gang of One  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:22:54pm

re: #26 chihuahua


Another sock puppet prick. Get lost, asshole.

31 jaunte  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:23:42pm

Not sure where anyone is getting their statistics from, but the ease of picking out extreme signs and ignorant comments from the 912 crowds suggests that the percentage of ignorant extremists was pretty high.

32 bosforus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:23:42pm

re: #26 chihuahua

Oh man, you just copied and pasted that didn't you? Not a shred of originality.

33 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:24:11pm
34 VioletTiger  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:24:35pm

Is there a flounce per thread record?

35 Racer X  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:24:35pm

re: #26 chihuahua

Flounce!

36 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:24:48pm

It gets a bit hard to take the flouncer seriously when they want their posting rights revoked--but they've never used them.

I suppose I could say I want my right to post comments at Kos or VDare or Freep revoked, as well.

37 cronus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:25:18pm

I could care less whether these examples are fairly representative of the attendees or not. Why ANYONE on the Right thought it was a good use of time and energy to recreate the street theater politics of the Left I will never know.

38 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:25:35pm

re: #26 chihuahua

so much more betterer than just going away.your opinion has been noted,and the janitorial engineer has placed it in the proper receptical.

39 Bloodnok  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:25:47pm

re: #26 chihuahua

Get lost creep.

Audio of the typical flounce.

40 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:25:49pm

It's like flies to the bug zapper tonight.

41 bosforus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:25:56pm

re: #27 Racer X

I feel the same way. If the "real and truly devoted" tea-party members cared about the purity of their movement they'd not only shun the wack-o's but also try to get rid of them.

42 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:26:04pm

re: #27 Racer X

This tea party crap is just getting embarrassing now.

Charles posted a few weeks ago that this was going to backfire big time. At that time I was unsure. I am now - this will be a major FAIL.

These clowns are being exposed as complete and utter morons.

Given a certain number of Birchers and LaRouchies are going to tie themselves to protests against Obama, The "Tea party" protests (Stupid label in my view) represent more than just a rejection of obmacare. Many people are upset with what is going in in Washington, and the right is learning what the left has known for years. How to organize and take to the streets and protests.

43 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:26:09pm
44 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:26:59pm

re: #43 taxfreekiller

So, these ones who went to D.C. did they make off with any of our tax money?

Thankfully, no.

45 Gang of One  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:27:12pm

re: #37 cronus

I could care less whether these examples are fairly representative of the attendees or not. Why ANYONE on the Right thought it was a good use of time and energy to recreate the street theater politics of the Left I will never know.


This not merely street theater, which usually was stupid, but benign. This is out and out promise to do violence. This is wrong.

46 bosforus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:27:16pm

re: #33 Charles

The definition of flouncing.

Ha ha, the fact that you just linked to ED just scored you about 100 points (not gonna say over 9000) in my book.

47 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:27:22pm

re: #43 taxfreekiller

So, these ones who went to D.C. did they make off with any of our tax money?

As a matter of fact, yes ... I'd bet that a whole lot of these people are making good use of Medicare.

Maybe that doesn't count?

48 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:27:33pm

People absorbed in their violent fantasies, cheered on at political rallies. Armed to the teeth. Threatening. Most do not know the horror of real violence.

This is sure to end in a very ugly incident. Sure.

I don't think conservatism will benefit from this, but still the cheers go up.

49 Coracle  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:27:33pm

re: #43 taxfreekiller

So, these ones who went to D.C. did they make off with any of our tax money?

Actually they left quite a mess behind. Our tax money pays for the cleanup.

50 schlagerman  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:27:35pm

re: #33 Charles

Thanks Charles. Why do they feel the need to announce they're never posting here again? Why not just stop posting?

51 gantww  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:27:42pm

A friend of mine once gave me excellent dating advice. They said that the opposite of crazy is still crazy.

It appears to apply to politics with interest.

Long time lurker, first time poster. This is the first chance I've gotten where I'm not repeating what someone else already said.

Anybody wanna bet on how long it will take for this whole tea party movement to get turned into something worse than what they are protesting...? I mean this as a friendly wager in which no items of value are exchanged. I'm guessing three or four months tops.

Anybody?

52 Jack Burton  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:27:50pm

re: #15 jaunte

These people in the video apparently didn't pay any attention to the last president's czars.

"Oh but that was different!"

Didn't see too many on the right complaining about Bushes czars, such as Condoleezza Rice and Karl Rove to name a few.

53 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:27:50pm

What is this "It's a Steal" banner ad that showing up? It looks like a variation of the big-busted Evony bimbo.

54 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:28:22pm

re: #50 schlagerman

Thanks Charles. Why do they feel the need to announce they're never posting here again? Why not just stop posting?

They really need to let Daddy know how much they hate him.

55 HelloDare  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:28:29pm

I see a market for giant puppet rentals in Washington D.C.

An enterprising person could create a giant bird. It's a dove for a Liberal march, an eagle for the right.

Throw a turban on a giant Abe Lincoln, you got your giant mullah.

56 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:28:41pm

re: #26 chihuahua

Why do you waste your life away like this? You could have spent those five minutes of your life doing something productive, like picking your nose, watching the game more closely, whatever. There are many people dying young, that would looove to have those five minutes you just wasted.

57 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:28:43pm

re: #52 ArchangelMichael

"Oh but that was different!"

Didn't see too many on the right complaining about Bushes czars, such as Condoleezza Rice and Karl Rove to name a few.

Rice was confirmed by the Senate.

David Alelrod has Roves old Job...

58 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:29:28pm

OT:

Pro-Charles diary at Kos (No, I didn't write it.)

59 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:29:45pm

re: #43 taxfreekiller

So, these ones who went to D.C. did they make off with any of our tax money?

No, just some credibility.

60 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:30:08pm

re: #51 gantww

longer than that,crazy needs time and nurturing to grow properly

61 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:30:10pm

Flouncing Anthem:

Yeah (sing the song brother...)
Now if uh, six uh, huh, turned out to be nine
Oh I don't mind, I don't mind uh ( Well all right... )
If all the righty bloggers cut off all their fare
Oh I don't care, oh I don't care.
Dig.

'Cause I've got my own world to live through and uh, huh
And I ain't gonna copy you.

White collar conservative flashin' down the street
Pointin' their plastic finger at me, ha !
They're hopin' soon my kind will drop and die but uh
I'm gonna wave my lizard flag high, high !
Oww !

Flounce on, Flounce on...
- Icarus Hendrix
*prostrate before the Lizard King, should he find offence*

62 Gang of One  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:30:14pm

re: #42 DrNaughty

Given a certain number of Birchers and LaRouchies are going to tie themselves to protests against Obama, The "Tea party" protests (Stupid label in my view) represent more than just a rejection of obmacare. Many people are upset with what is going in in Washington, and the right is learning what the left has known for years. How to organize and take to the streets and protests.

Organize and protest, yes. Threaten or infering violence, revolution or open, armed confrontation is going to get a lot of people hurt. It also destroys any credibility the right has, IMNSHO.

63 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:30:31pm

These people need a guide on how to carry out a proper flounce.

They lack style, grace, and a certain je ne sais quoi...

Maybe what they need is a new script.

Moreover, none of them are particularly memorable. It's like they're just so much roadkill on the Internet superhighway.

64 pianobuff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:30:55pm
65 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:30:56pm
66 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:30:57pm

re: #51 gantww

A friend of mine once gave me excellent dating advice. They said that the opposite of crazy is still crazy.

It appears to apply to politics with interest.

Long time lurker, first time poster. This is the first chance I've gotten where I'm not repeating what someone else already said.

Anybody wanna bet on how long it will take for this whole tea party movement to get turned into something worse than what they are protesting...? I mean this as a friendly wager in which no items of value are exchanged. I'm guessing three or four months tops.

Anybody?

I'd go with your guess. I'm also going to upding you for a first substantive post that is not a flounce. Do post for often, you've got the wit for it.

67 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:31:06pm

re: #62 Gang of One

Organize and protest, yes. Threaten or infering violence, revolution or open, armed confrontation is going to get a lot of people hurt. It also destroys any credibility the right has, IMNSHO.

You mean like William Ayres...?

68 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:31:12pm

re: #61 The Shadow Do

Jimmie would be proud

69 Jack Burton  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:31:43pm

re: #57 DrNaughty

They are not cabinet officers as provided by the constitution.

Karl Rove was the Domestic Policy czar.
Condoleezza Rice was the National Security czar before she was SoS.

National Security Advisor is not subject to senate confirmation.

70 arethusa  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:31:48pm

re: #63 lawhawk

Maybe they could flounce in French? Everything sounds better in French. ;-)

71 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:32:12pm

re: #6 Alouette

Jesus didn't have a comfy shoulder pad on the cross he carried.

True, but if that is the guy I think it is, he's been travelling with it for a rather long time.

72 JHW  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:32:25pm

re: #53 Alouette

What is this "It's a Steal" banner ad that showing up? It looks like a variation of the big-busted Evony bimbo.

Here's the deal on that Evony thing.
About Evony

73 esch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:32:47pm

re: #63 lawhawk

These people need a guide on how to carry out a proper flounce.

They lack style, grace, and a certain je ne sais quoi...

Maybe what they need is a new script.

Moreover, none of them are particularly memorable. It's like they're just so much roadkill on the Internet superhighway.


Of flounce, a prevention is worth a profound succor?

74 Gang of One  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:33:20pm

re: #67 DrNaughty

You mean like William Ayres...?

Yeah, right. Let's stoop his level.
///

75 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:34:25pm

re: #15 jaunte

These people in the video apparently didn't pay any attention to the last president's czars.

"Jesus is our king". I think that was Savonarola's line. If these nutjobs come for my Botticelli prints and my Bobbi Brown lipstick, we're gonna have words.

76 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:34:40pm

re: #52 ArchangelMichael

"Oh but that was different!"

Didn't see too many on the right complaining about Bushes czars, such as Condoleezza Rice and Karl Rove to name a few.

Definitions of czars vary for US political purposes, but it's generally policy positions that do not require Senate confirmation.

The practice goes back to FDR, and probably well before that. Bush greatly expanded that role, and Obama has taken it to new levels, particularly because he's using that to avoid confirmation troubles - or precisely because of confirmation trouble. He's filling czar positions while not filling confirmation-required positions. That's extremely troublesome.

77 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:34:47pm

re: #74 Gang of One

Yeah, right. Let's stoop his level.
///

As I said earlier. Crazies on the left. Crazies on the right...

Neither of which represent the view of the silent majority... Which according to most polls are not supporting obama to any great degree...

78 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:35:12pm

re: #15 jaunte

These people in the video apparently didn't pay any attention to the last president's czars.

The people in the video apparently haven't paid attention to politics for the past fifty years, and have now been fitted with talking points by Glenn Beck.

79 VioletTiger  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:35:18pm

re: #63 lawhawk

These people need a guide on how to carry out a proper flounce.

They lack style, grace, and a certain je ne sais quoi...

Maybe what they need is a new script.

Moreover, none of them are particularly memorable. It's like they're just so much roadkill on the Internet superhighway.

Maybe there should be a checklist or a pull-down menu and they can just check off their flounce criteria.

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:36:11pm

re: #18 wee fury

I wish these people would write respectful letters itemizing their displeasure to their Congresspeople and the President. Or call them. Or e-mail them. And, stay home.

Protesting is fine. I just wish to God they seemed to know what the hell they were protesting for.

Nancy Pelosi is a Jezebel? What the HELL does that mean?

81 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:36:14pm

re: #78 SanFranciscoZionist

The people in the video apparently haven't paid attention to politics for the past fifty years, and have now been fitted with talking points by Glenn Beck.

Which talking points ?

82 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:36:56pm

re: #80 SanFranciscoZionist

Protesting is fine. I just wish to God they seemed to know what the hell they were protesting for.

Nancy Pelosi is a Jezebel? What the HELL does that mean?

Usually people protest when they disagree with something.

83 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:37:00pm

re: #78 SanFranciscoZionist

Nancy Pelosi is a Jezebel? What the HELL does that mean?

It's a teenager who was home-schooled by fanatics. That's the only kind of political rhetoric he knows.

84 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:37:21pm

re: #80 SanFranciscoZionist

Protesting is fine. I just wish to God they seemed to know what the hell they were protesting for.

Nancy Pelosi is a Jezebel? What the HELL does that mean?

When I saw that I thought WTF? Jezebel is supposed to be hot!

85 rokbassist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:37:26pm

I'm glad to see the protests. Playing nice and trying to be "reasonable" a la McCain is a loser strategy. It's far past time for conservatives to take the streets. The MSM will NEVER give fair or equal coverage to the conservative point of view. It could care less about our ideas or what's truly best for the country. Am I suggesting people should parade around with pictures of Hitler? No, I'm not. But equating Obama with fascism is accurate and fair game.

86 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:38:22pm

re: #70 arethusa

Maybe they could flounce in French? Everything sounds better in French. ;-)

If I had to flounce, this would be it:

"I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! You mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!”

Not serious enough?

87 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:38:27pm

re: #85 rokbassist

These people are not "conservatives," they are assholes.

88 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:38:33pm

re: #83 Charles

It's a teenager who was home-schooled by fanatics. That's the only kind of political rhetoric he knows.

Jesus Camp + 10 years = this

89 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:38:39pm

re: #83 Charles

It's a teenager who was home-schooled by fanatics. That's the only kind of political rhetoric he knows.

I wish that one 13 year old that FOX keeps propping up as a "Conservative Strategist" (can't recall his name now) would go back to 7th grade and run for class president. Instead of spouting what his parents feed him...

90 HelloDare  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:38:43pm

Too early for a palate cleanser?

Animals with lightsabers.

92 gantww  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:38:59pm

re: #60 Boondock St. Bender

So it's more like wine than steak (better with age, as opposed to fresh off the grill...?). Or maybe it's more like a chicken Mcnugget. Once it's done, it's the same forever and doesn't bio-degrade (sort of akin to aging hippies, now that I think about it, but possibly less oily).

Birthers are awesome in my opinion. Every time I think I'm a little bit off or a little bit dumb, I stop and go read about them. It's like a prophylactic against low self-esteem and lack of purpose. I figure if they can survive, I should be capable of thriving, no?

93 sngnsgt  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:39:13pm

OT

Vancouver Canucks vs New York Islanders pre-season Hockey on NHL Network...

Game on!!!

94 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:39:50pm

re: #85 rokbassist

I'm glad to see the protests. Playing nice and trying to be "reasonable" a la McCain is a loser strategy. It's far past time for conservatives to take the streets. The MSM will NEVER give fair or equal coverage to the conservative point of view. It could care less about our ideas or what's truly best for the country. Am I suggesting people should parade around with pictures of Hitler? No, I'm not. But equating Obama with fascism is accurate and fair game.

Equating obama with ineptness is a far better comparison...

95 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:40:05pm

re: #81 DrNaughty

Which talking points ?

Czars, for starters.

96 eastsider  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:40:15pm

re: #93 sngnsgt

I think I might be the only Islander fan on this website...or the internets.

97 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:40:17pm

re: #85 rokbassist

In what way is Obama a fascist? Please explain and give a source. Beware of using Jonah Goldberg's Liberal Fascism, people here are very good at taking its points apart.

98 gantww  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:40:17pm
Nancy Pelosi is a Jezebel? What the HELL does that mean?

I dunno, but I'm skipping dinner from the mental image...

99 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:40:26pm

re: #85 rokbassist

I'm glad to see the protests. Playing nice and trying to be "reasonable" a la McCain is a loser strategy. It's far past time for conservatives to take the streets. The MSM will NEVER give fair or equal coverage to the conservative point of view. It could care less about our ideas or what's truly best for the country. Am I suggesting people should parade around with pictures of Hitler? No, I'm not. But equating Obama with fascism is accurate and fair game.

Sounds like something I would have said as a stupid 16 year old anarchist.

100 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:40:48pm

re: #84 Alouette

When I saw that I thought WTF? Jezebel is supposed to be hot!

Be nice, Babushka!

101 Desert Dog  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:40:49pm

re: #96 eastsider

I think I might be the only Islander fan on this website...or the internets.

That's ok, I am probably the only Coyote fan...anywhere

102 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:40:52pm

re: #92 gantww

exactly...whenever i feel stupid,i look at them and wow all of a sudden i feel like einstein...lol

103 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:40:53pm

re: #91 lawhawk

Some evil never dies.

Algerians now spreading blood libel that Israel is stealing organs of Algerian kids.

One thing I haven't seen (yet) in these tea party pictures are the USS Liberty crowd. But they'll turn up eventually.

104 pianobuff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:41:01pm

re: #76 lawhawk

Definitions of czars vary for US political purposes, but it's generally policy positions that do not require Senate confirmation.

The practice goes back to FDR, and probably well before that. Bush greatly expanded that role, and Obama has taken it to new levels, particularly because he's using that to avoid confirmation troubles - or precisely because of confirmation trouble. He's filling czar positions while not filling confirmation-required positions. That's extremely troublesome.

An important point.

I'd like to see fewer czars. Having said that, it's part of a tradition perpetuated by both sides, so it's a little difficult calling foul unless you (in the generic sense) are one who has been against this for much longer than 8 months.

I'm hoping that it becomes enough of a campaign issue in 2012 that both Obama and his electoral opponent commit to reducing the practice.

Vis a vis those appointees requiring confirmation, I'm not really sure if previous terms have done this much, if at all, faster. The issue is in what you have pointed out... that the czar matriculation rate is so much faster (at least it feels like it).

105 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:41:17pm

re: #95 SanFranciscoZionist

Czars, for starters.

And you believe all of the Czars are a good thing ?

106 sngnsgt  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:41:40pm

re: #96 eastsider

I think I might be the only Islander fan on this website...or the internets.

Aww c'mon, there's got to be at least one more of ya' eh?

107 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:42:16pm

Bill Clinton did a couple of things which seemed reasonable and now I can finally agree with President Obama.

108 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:42:28pm

re: #93 sngnsgt

OT

Vancouver Canucks vs New York Islanders pre-season Hockey on NHL Network...

Game on!!!

Pre-season hockey, my God man, you are a puck head supreme! Sure 'nuff! Get some help...

109 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:42:41pm

Charles,

Via Instapundit, here's where those Bury Obamacare With Kennedy signs came from.

The American Life League is responsible for the “Bury Obamacare with Kennedy” sign: [Link: americanlifeleague.stores.yahoo.net...]

What’s strange is that this sign stands far apart from all their other Pro-Life memorabilia. The Pro-Life movement has nothing to do with Obama or Kennedy insofar as it comes to universal health care (outside of the abortion issue). According to the BBB ([Link: www.bbb.org...] the organization has only existed since July 2009. Something smells strange about the entire set-up.

110 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:42:48pm

This is harder to watch than the Raiders scoring a touchdown, which just happened. Honestly I paused it at least 10 times to regain my composure. It's a weird mix of crazy eyes and empty eyes. The crazy eyes are passionate and repetitive, the empty eyes parrot a talking point they heard somewhere... badly. Crazy and gullible are obviously equal opportunity.

111 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:43:24pm

re: #109 lawhawk

Charles,

Via Instapundit, here's where those Bury Obamacare With Kennedy signs came from.

Actually, I had that days ago.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

112 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:43:27pm

re: #104 pianobuff

An important point.

I'd like to see fewer czars. Having said that, it's part of a tradition perpetuated by both sides, so it's a little difficult calling foul unless you (in the generic sense) are one who has been against this for much longer than 8 months.

I'm hoping that it becomes enough of a campaign issue in 2012 that both Obama and his electoral opponent commit to reducing the practice.

Vis a vis those appointees requiring confirmation, I'm not really sure if previous terms have done this much, if at all, faster. The issue is in what you have pointed out... that the czar matriculation rate is so much faster (at least it feels like it).

There is a difference between advising the president on various issues, and actually having executive power and decision making delegated by the President to the Czars...

What is unclear is if they actually have decision-making authority. And even the Democrats in Congress are concerned with that issue.

113 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:43:32pm

re: #85 rokbassist

I'm glad to see the protests. Playing nice and trying to be "reasonable" a la McCain is a loser strategy. It's far past time for conservatives to take the streets. The MSM will NEVER give fair or equal coverage to the conservative point of view. It could care less about our ideas or what's truly best for the country. Am I suggesting people should parade around with pictures of Hitler? No, I'm not. But equating Obama with fascism is accurate and fair game.

I guess it's fun to call people "fascist". Sure beats actually elaborating the things you don't like about them...

114 sngnsgt  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:43:57pm

re: #108 The Shadow Do

Pre-season hockey, my God man, you are a puck head supreme! Sure 'nuff! Get some help...

I must need some, I've already been to an IHL pre-season game... Drop the puck!!!

115 eastsider  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:44:11pm

At some point a sane, coherent conservative is going to emerge that can clearly articulate positions including:
-fiscal conservatism
-strong national defense
-small government

without getting bogged down in
-craziness/over the top/yelling/birtherism etc we've seen lately
-social preaching (e.g. gay marriage)

Anyone have any ideas?

116 jaunte  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:44:13pm

A partial list of czars appointed by George W. Bush.

Cyber Security Czar
Regulatory Czar
Katrina Czar
Manufacturing Czar
Drug Czar
Domestic Policy Czar
War Czar
Copyright Czar
AIDS Czar
Bird Flu Czar
Intelligence Czar
Health Czar
Health IT Czar
Abstinence Czar
Mine Safety Czar
Latin American Czar
WTO Czar
Corruption Czar
Privacy Czar
Sudan Czar

117 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:44:15pm

Just got hit up for a school fund raiser. Smart kid--she's in the "wrong" neighborhood, so she's got it all to herself. (Note--she also moved up at least a quintile in income by doing her fundraiser north a few blocks.)

118 Desert Dog  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:44:18pm

re: #110 Locker

This is harder to watch than the Raiders scoring a touchdown, which just happened. Honestly I paused it at least 10 times to regain my composure. It's a weird mix of crazy eyes and empty eyes. The crazy eyes are passionate and repetitive, the empty eyes parrot a talking point they heard somewhere... badly. Crazy and gullible are obviously equal opportunity.

Bad news for you...I'd bet most of those people vote at every election, consistently.

119 Coracle  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:44:18pm

re: #99 Conservative Moonbat

Sounds like something I would have said as a stupid 16 year old anarchist.

At 16 you would have fit right in with the "Abolish Government" sign I saw at the march.

120 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:44:39pm

re: #105 DrNaughty

And you believe all of the Czars are a good thing ?

You believe that overloading on presidential appointees is a good reason to walk around DC, flipping out, when clearly you don't know the first goddamn thing about the history of the role? Did you listen to those people? "Who makes them czars? Who pays them? Are they gonna get land and rule over the country? A czar is a Russian king!" Did it occur to these folks to read up briefly on this issue before hitting the streets? Good grief!

121 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:44:50pm

re: #113 cliffster

I guess it's fun to call people "fascist". Sure beats actually elaborating the things you don't like about them...

Or Nazis. never heard that over the past 8 or 9 years or so...

122 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:45:00pm

re: #111 Charles

Missed that thread...

123 sngnsgt  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:45:14pm

re: #116 jaunte

Hockey Czar? ///

124 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:45:36pm

re: #96 eastsider

I think I might be the only Islander fan on this website...or the internets.

Islanders - what?
You talkin' Ray-Bans- like Wayfarers?

125 Desert Dog  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:45:37pm

re: #116 jaunte

A partial list of czars appointed by George W. Bush.

Cyber Security Czar
Regulatory Czar
Katrina Czar
Manufacturing Czar
Drug Czar
Domestic Policy Czar
War Czar
Copyright Czar
AIDS Czar
Bird Flu Czar
Intelligence Czar
Health Czar
Health IT Czar
Abstinence Czar
Mine Safety Czar
Latin American Czar
WTO Czar
Corruption Czar
Privacy Czar
Sudan Czar

Obama Czars

126 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:45:43pm

re: #120 SanFranciscoZionist

You believe that overloading on presidential appointees is a good reason to walk around DC, flipping out, when clearly you don't know the first goddamn thing about the history of the role? Did you listen to those people? "Who makes them czars? Who pays them? Are they gonna get land and rule over the country? A czar is a Russian king!" Did it occur to these folks to read up briefly on this issue before hitting the streets? Good grief!

What is the reason for these unelected, unconfirmed individuals that isn't already covered in the job descriptions of the Cabinet ?

127 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:45:44pm

re: #115 eastsider

At some point a sane, coherent conservative is going to emerge that can clearly articulate positions including:
-fiscal conservatism
-strong national defense
-small government

without getting bogged down in
-craziness/over the top/yelling/birtherism etc we've seen lately
-social preaching (e.g. gay marriage)

Anyone have any ideas?

Mitt Romney.

128 doubter4444  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:45:47pm

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

My God. I'm beginning to think we might well have some medium-scale violence before long. These nuts are far enough gone to think its a good idea. God save us from this insanity.

There are peopel on this site now who seem to wan to it to happen:
re: #85 rokbassist

I'm glad to see the protests. Playing nice and trying to be "reasonable" a la McCain is a loser strategy. It's far past time for conservatives to take the streets. The MSM will NEVER give fair or equal coverage to the conservative point of view. It could care less about our ideas or what's truly best for the country. Am I suggesting people should parade around with pictures of Hitler? No, I'm not. But equating Obama with fascism is accurate and fair game.

I don't get it.
Killing the republic to save it.
To you, rokbassist... you even know what fascism is? (hint, it's not what J. dougypantsload says it is). Your rhetoric is stupid and unproductive.
Why do you think the country is so fragile that Obama can destroy it?
And if it is, where the hell were you when it was going bad... durning the last decade or longer or did ALL this start Jan 21?

129 eastsider  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:46:37pm

re: #124 Capitalist Tool

Oh how I wish there was a sarc tag on your comment. No its an actual NHL team. They play on Long Island in NY. Hence, Islanders. Believe it or not we won 4 stanley cups in a row, and invented the playoff beard.

130 gantww  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:46:46pm

re: #115 eastsider

I vote for Charles. I don't know what he looks like and have never heard him speak, but he does seem to be pretty level-headed.

131 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:46:47pm

re: #85 rokbassist

But equating Obama with fascism is accurate and fair game.

It's neither accurate nor fair game- it's just highly ignorant of fascism.

132 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:46:48pm

re: #123 sngnsgt

Bob Probert? Is that you?

133 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:47:02pm

re: #114 sngnsgt

I must need some, I've already been to an IHL pre-season game... Drop the puck!!!

Is your name Jason? No one else could be such a fan!

134 Coracle  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:47:06pm

re: #127 Dark_Falcon

Mitt Romney.

I posted downstairs that his current silence may help him weather the storm on the Right, but it hands a weapon to the Left.

135 HelloDare  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:47:23pm

re: #116 jaunte

A partial list of czars appointed by George W. Bush.

Cyber Security Czar
Regulatory Czar
Katrina Czar
Manufacturing Czar
Drug Czar
Domestic Policy Czar
War Czar
Copyright Czar
AIDS Czar
Bird Flu Czar
Intelligence Czar
Health Czar
Health IT Czar
Abstinence Czar
Mine Safety Czar
Latin American Czar
WTO Czar
Corruption Czar
Privacy Czar
Sudan Czar

You forgot Hamid Car Czar

136 jaunte  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:47:36pm

re: #125 Desert Dog

I wonder why the Executive Branch isn't sufficiently served by the Cabinet,
(regardless of party).

137 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:47:48pm

re: #130 gantww

I vote for Charles. I don't know what he looks like and have never heard him speak, but he does seem to be pretty level-headed.

You could click his avatar.

138 Dar ul Harbarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:47:49pm

Jody Powell is dead of an apparent MI

139 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:47:53pm

I like the term jackass. "Obama is a fascist!" I feel like I have to defend that. Why do I think so? What has he done to earn that description? "Obama is a jackass!". That stands on its own. Not really saying anything, so there's really nothing to defend. If someone questions me, I'll say, prove he's not a jackass.

140 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:47:55pm

I really like the Boob Czar:

[Link: jimtreacher.com...]

/who am I kidding? I really only like the boobs...;~)

141 Desert Dog  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:47:58pm

re: #129 eastsider

Oh how I wish there was a sarc tag on your comment. No its an actual NHL team. They play on Long Island in NY. Hence, Islanders. Believe it or not we won 4 stanley cups in a row, and invented the playoff beard.

Some great teams in the 80's. Some of the best ever.

142 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:48:09pm

re: #128 doubter4444

I don't get it.
Killing the republic to save it.
To you, rokbassist... you even know what fascism is? (hint, it's not what J. dougypantsload says it is). Your rhetoric is stupid and unproductive.
Why do you think the country is so fragile that Obama can destroy it?
And if it is, where the hell were you when it was going bad... durning the last decade or longer or did ALL this start Jan 21?

I suppose emptying our national treasury within the first three months of being in office isn't fascism.

Ineptness and stupidity are much better terms to use with regards to the obama administration...

143 PatriotLizardoid  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:48:10pm

I'm glad to see the protests. There were crazy, stupid signs in the fringe when the left held their anti-war rallies (and the MSM ignored the fringe). There are crazy, stupid signs in the fringe when the right holds rallies (what's new?).

But all in all I don't think there was any rioting with police, black flag/eco-terror / nihilist nuts destroying and graffiting property... no storefront windows smashed or teargas deployed or people arrested like at so many lefty demonstrations. I think that's admirable given the anger and tension in the air, and given the huge crowd size.

The worst we saw were signs (stupid ones, but then holding up stupid signs in this country is a God given right).

144 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:48:11pm

Hey Lizards!

RIP Patrick Swayze!

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

145 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:48:15pm

re: #126 DrNaughty

What is the reason for these unelected, unconfirmed individuals that isn't already covered in the job descriptions of the Cabinet ?

What is the reason these unelected, unconfirmed individuals weren't an issue two years ago?

146 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:48:28pm

re: #33 Charles

EW! That link had a NSFW and, IMHO offensive ad on the left side...

147 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:48:29pm

re: #129 eastsider

Grew up an Islanders fan, but after going to college in Albany, became a *gasp* Devils fan, because the Albany River Rats (yes, they were called the Rats!) were the Devils farm team.

148 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:48:32pm

re: #130 gantww

I vote for Charles. I don't know what he looks like and have never heard him speak, but he does seem to be pretty level-headed.

You're going to have to vote for somebody else, because I may be crazy, but I'm nowhere near crazy enough to want to get involved in politics.

149 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:48:41pm

Don't know or care about the politics, but R.I.P. Patrick Swayze.

150 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:48:50pm

The right has lost it's collective mind.

151 Desert Dog  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:49:03pm

re: #136 jaunte

I wonder why the Executive Branch isn't sufficiently served by the Cabinet,
(regardless of party).

Cabinet? What is that? I think I read about that in my history books...something about advisors to the President...

152 garycooper  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:49:10pm

re: #6 Alouette

Jesus didn't have a comfy shoulder pad on the cross he carried.

I know...that guy was my hero, until I saw the comfy cushion on the cross. All credibility lost, alas.

153 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:49:20pm

re: #136 jaunte

I wonder why the Executive Branch isn't sufficiently served by the Cabinet,
(regardless of party).

Many of us wonder the same thing.

154 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:49:22pm

re: #127 Dark_Falcon

Mitt Romney.

Definitely looking like a little oasis of sanity, and I don't care what kind of underwear he sports.

155 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:49:36pm

re: #116 jaunte

Would love to know who the Abstinence Czar was... Not terribly fun at a party I'm guessing.

156 esch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:49:39pm

re: #136 jaunte

I wonder why the Executive Branch isn't sufficiently served by the Cabinet,
(regardless of party).

Perhaps they've vastly overstretched their reach into areas the founders never intended?

If you need a Czar for it, you shouldn't be doing it.

157 Desert Dog  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:49:53pm

re: #140 Salamantis

I really like the Boob Czar:

[Link: jimtreacher.com...]

/who am I kidding? I really only like the boobs...;~)

She should run for something...she'd get at least 1/2 of the vote

158 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:49:56pm

re: #129 eastsider

Oh how I wish there was a sarc tag on your comment. No its an actual NHL team. They play on Long Island in NY. Hence, Islanders. Believe it or not we won 4 stanley cups in a row, and invented the playoff beard.

///

159 pianobuff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:49:59pm
160 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:50:00pm

re: #131 Sharmuta

It's neither accurate nor fair game- it's just highly ignorant of fascism.

I am beginning to think we need an LGF encyclopedia. The first submission should be a concise explanation of fascism--in all of it's many flavors.

161 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:50:06pm

re: #136 jaunte

Some positions are created because they require more cross-jurisdictional expertise or is needed to bring together information from multiple areas to better coordinate matters.

Some positions were created and later became cabinet level entities.

162 eastsider  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:50:16pm

re: #134 Coracle

Romney could be good. Some fresh blood might also be nice. The real issue is that no one can get to a statewide (forget national) microphone without passing 'conservative' litmus test issues like:

-Social Conservatism
-Immigration
-Healthcare

Score the wrong answer on any of those and you're out. It kind of whittles it down to the few and the crazy.

163 gantww  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:50:18pm

re: #142 DrNaughty

I suppose emptying our national treasury within the first three months of being in office isn't fascism.

Ineptness and stupidity are much better terms to use with regards to the obama administration...

Did we still have money in the treasury? I was under the impression we were already up to our eyebrows in debt.

Look, be sane. Take the inflated currency they give you, and buy precious metal (or rare earth elements) and sit on them. Then, when the fiat currency collapses, sell most of it, use the rest to make a crown and start dynasty. At least, that's my plan.

164 jaunte  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:50:24pm

re: #151 Desert Dog

Maybe it's a general trend of the Executive shrugging off any oversight from their 'competitors' in the Legislative branch.

165 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:50:46pm

re: #134 Coracle

I posted downstairs that his current silence may help him weather the storm on the Right, but it hands a weapon to the Left.

You're right, but he doesn't have a choice. Right now, the base is too worked up to accept him. He needs to wait and see if things calm down. If tried talking about sensible policies now, he'd just be dismissed as a RINO.

166 Desert Dog  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:50:48pm

re: #155 marjoriemoon

Would love to know who the Abstinence Czar was... Not terribly fun at a party I'm guessing.

They probably sit him next to the Boob Czar, just to see if he's "up to the job"?

167 funky chicken  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:50:51pm

re: #115 eastsider

At some point a sane, coherent conservative is going to emerge that can clearly articulate positions including:
-fiscal conservatism
-strong national defense
-small government

without getting bogged down in
-craziness/over the top/yelling/birtherism etc we've seen lately
-social preaching (e.g. gay marriage)

Anyone have any ideas?

Christine Todd Whitman

Of course she gets hounded by the RINO-purgers.

Gov. Huntsman of Utah (and now ambassador to China, I think?) is a possibility.

168 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:51:04pm

re: #150 Irish Rose

The right has lost it's collective mind.

The right will be OK. This will pass.

I think these folks just scare me because they look so damn normal, and then they open their mouths, and the weirdness comes out.

169 Dar ul Harbarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:51:08pm

How about a Teleprompter Czar?

170 jaunte  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:51:31pm

re: #155 marjoriemoon

Would love to know who the Abstinence Czar was... Not terribly fun at a party I'm guessing.

He's that guy that's always telling you you have to get up early in the morning.

171 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:51:45pm

re: #167 funky chicken

Christine Todd Whitman

Of course she gets hounded by the RINO-purgers.

Gov. Huntsman of Utah (and now ambassador to China, I think?) is a possibility.

I thought McCotter was sane but no chance.

172 eastsider  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:51:57pm

re: #147 lawhawk

believable. There hasn't been too much to get excited about in Islanderville for quite a while. Although hopefully Okposo + Tavares can get us a few wins (and a few fans)

173 gantww  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:51:58pm

re: #148 Charles

You're going to have to vote for somebody else, because I may be crazy, but I'm nowhere near crazy enough to want to get involved in politics.

It's truly sad that your comment both explains why it should be you at the same time it explains why you would never do it. I suppose the same is true of others who could do a better job than the clowns we have.

By the way, I like all the AJAX-y stuff on the site.

174 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:51:58pm

re: #143 PatriotLizardoid

I'm glad to see the protests. There were crazy, stupid signs in the fringe when the left held their anti-war rallies (and the MSM ignored the fringe). There are crazy, stupid signs in the fringe when the right holds rallies (what's new?).

But all in all I don't think there was any rioting with police, black flag/eco-terror / nihilist nuts destroying and graffiting property... no storefront windows smashed or teargas deployed or people arrested like at so many lefty demonstrations. I think that's admirable given the anger and tension in the air, and given the huge crowd size.

The worst we saw were signs (stupid ones, but then holding up stupid signs in this country is a God given right).

IMHO, the only thing this brand of whackos are doing is giving ammuntion to those who would like to re-instate the "assault weapons" ban and at this rate, they will probably gain enough momentum to repeal the 2nd Amendment.

175 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:52:00pm

re: #155 marjoriemoon

Would love to know who the Abstinence Czar was... Not terribly fun at a party I'm guessing.

I assume he/she was only the Czar for premarital abstinence. Otherwise, my opinion of President Bush is going to have to be revised downward.

176 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:52:00pm
177 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:52:05pm

re: #145 SanFranciscoZionist

What is the reason these unelected, unconfirmed individuals weren't an issue two years ago?

I never heard a peep out of the Democrats two years ago either, other than the derogatory comments about President Bush. I presume that they believe they were needed for him to get though each day while in office, as clearly, in the minds of Democrats President Bush was far too ignorant to manage to get though each day by his own volition.

However, it appears that even Democrats in congress are quite concerned about obama's many, many , many unconfirmed advisiors.

.

178 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:52:20pm

Flounce!

179 rokbassist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:52:28pm

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

In what way is Obama a fascist? Please explain and give a source. Beware of using Jonah Goldberg's Liberal Fascism, people here are very good at taking its points apart.

Taking over industry after industry through excessive regulation and taxation while leaving it in private hands is fascism. While the companies are ostensibly privately owned, they are essentially run and controlled by the government. GM is a good example. I have no idea what Goldberg's definition is, I haven't seen it, and I do know there are many ideas what constitutes fascism. Historians and politicos do not agree on the exact definition. I think Obama is more a Marxist than a fascist, but instituting straight-out Marxism won't fly, so he works the system by taking over industry through regulation rather than direct ownership, a la Chavez.

180 esch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:52:35pm

re: #168 SanFranciscoZionist

The right will be OK. This will pass.

I think these folks just scare me because they look so damn normal, and then they open their mouths, and the weirdness comes out.

I see you've met my family.

181 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:52:48pm

re: #167 funky chicken

Whitman is cursed in these parts too - and that's New Jersey. She was a mess here, and was a mess at the EPA. In particular, her stance over air quality standards in the wake of 9/11 leaves something to be desired.

182 Enkidu90046  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:52:56pm

re: #94 DrNaughty

Equating obama with ineptness is a far better comparison...

We would also accept:

Jimmy Carter

and

Neville Chaimberlain

183 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:53:03pm

re: #168 SanFranciscoZionist

The right will be OK. This will pass.

I think these folks just scare me because they look so damn normal, and then they open their mouths, and the weirdness comes out.

Everyone is weird. Just give 'em time, they'll prove it.

184 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:53:06pm

re: #168 SanFranciscoZionist

The right will be OK. This will pass.

I don't think so. We haven't even glimpsed how bad it's going to get.

185 HelloDare  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:53:08pm

This was just posted in the Spinoffs upstairs.


Breaking: ACORN bombshell #4 due from BigGovernment tomorrow

Tonight on Fox News, Andrew Breitbart unleashed a salvo heard round the criminal-sphere. He promised the video release of another blockbuster sting operation tomorrow -- which would be number four, for those counting -- involving ACORN on his new BigGovernment website.

Employees of ACORN, in instance after instance, were confronted with multiple child prostitution rings involving illegal immigrants. It's hard to envision a more preposterous scenario.

Yet, not only did ACORN helpfully assist the young "prostitute" and her "pimp", in each case they actually fast-tracked them according to Breitbart, pushing them to the front of the queue ahead of normal folks seeking housing assistance.

And, while, it's easy to get sidetracked with ACORN's well-reported ties to voter registration fraud, housing fraud, and who knows what else, it's worth recalling President Barack Obama's longstanding and disturbing affiliation with this disgusting outfit.

186 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:53:20pm

Flounce #3.

187 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:53:25pm

re: #110 Locker

This is harder to watch than the Raiders scoring a touchdown, which just happened. Honestly I paused it at least 10 times to regain my composure. It's a weird mix of crazy eyes and empty eyes. The crazy eyes are passionate and repetitive, the empty eyes parrot a talking point they heard somewhere... badly. Crazy and gullible are obviously equal opportunity.

Once..I watched a Raiders practice when I was young when it was on Bay Farm Island in Alameda.. I was peeking behind the curtain on the fence..Everyone had left the field and took a shower and was going home.. Lester Hayes was outside on the field for hours just destroying shit with pure anger..I'm peeking at the fenceline and going this dude is crazy..Who would want to meet up with him on a Sunday afternoon? Not me!

188 rokbassist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:53:29pm

re: #99 Conservative Moonbat

Sounds like something I would have said as a stupid 16 year old anarchist.

As opposed to a stupid 45 year-old enlightened - what?

189 pianobuff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:53:35pm

re: #136 jaunte

I wonder why the Executive Branch isn't sufficiently served by the Cabinet,
(regardless of party).

More power/control for the top dog.

I recommend Command of Office by Stephen Graubard for a study of increasing executive power in the last 100 years. It's maybe a little tougher on the right, but it slings analysis at both sides.

190 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:53:36pm

re: #163 gantww

Did we still have money in the treasury? I was under the impression we were already up to our eyebrows in debt.

Look, be sane. Take the inflated currency they give you, and buy precious metal (or rare earth elements) and sit on them. Then, when the fiat currency collapses, sell most of it, use the rest to make a crown and start dynasty. At least, that's my plan.

I think it's like when you take out a home equity loan and get that little checkbook. It seems like you have money . . .

191 jaunte  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:53:50pm

re: #179 rokbassist


That's really more corporatism than fascism.

192 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:54:10pm

re: #186 Charles

Flounce #3.

It's a pathological pandemic of kooks!

193 rokbassist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:54:13pm

re: #87 Alouette

These people are not "conservatives," they are assholes.

And you differ how?

194 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:54:17pm

re: #176 JamesG

Tell the true story.

The true story of the tea parties HAS been told at LGF. They are being run by kooks- paulians, truthers and racists.

195 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:54:18pm

re: #162 eastsider

Romney could be good. Some fresh blood might also be nice. The real issue is that no one can get to a statewide (forget national) microphone without passing 'conservative' litmus test issues like:

-Social Conservatism
-Immigration
-Healthcare

Score the wrong answer on any of those and you're out. It kind of whittles it down to the few and the crazy.

The actual litmus test issues seem to be socon issues, such as antiabortionism, anti-gay marriage or civil unions, and pro-creationism in public school science class.

The wingers in the presidential primaries won't let anyone who doesn't pass theses litmus tests get nominated; the electorate in the general won't let anyone who does pass them win.

And therein lies the Republican conundrum.

196 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:54:22pm

They work so hard at the dramatic flounce-off comments.

I almost feel guilty about instantly deleting them.

OK, I'm over feeling guilty now.

197 eastsider  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:54:25pm

re: #148 Charles

Haven't read it in a while, but it reminds me of Catch-22.

Yossarian runs into the problem that you have to be mentally unstable to want to fly on the bombing runs, but if you ask out it proves you're not crazy and they make you go anyway.

198 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:54:34pm

re: #170 jaunte

He's that guy that's always telling you you have to get up early in the morning.

or add taxes to candy and Arizona Ice Tea.

199 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:54:54pm

Why is Tom Coburn not getting himself more airtime? Too boring to get it? Or too smart to try?

200 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:55:00pm

re: #157 Desert Dog

She should run for something...she'd get at least 1/2 of the vote

She could just run... in slow motion.

201 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:55:02pm

Jimmeh, Dark Falcon and Gus 802, I have something I'd like to ask you if you'd be kind enough to email. Click the blue.

202 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:55:14pm

Thou shalt not flounce.
-LaRouche 10:15

203 Desert Dog  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:55:24pm

re: #195 Salamantis

The actual litmus test issues seem to be socon issues, such as antiabortionism, anti-gay marriage or civil unions, and pro-creationism in public school science class.

The wingers in the presidential primaries won't let anyone who doesn't pass theses litmus tests get nominated; the electorate in the general won't let anyone who does pass them win.

And therein lies the Republican conundrum.

Conundrum for President!

204 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:55:46pm

re: #182 Enkidu90046

We would also accept:

Jimmy Carter

and

Neville Chaimberlain

Carter did have some good views with regards to the DOD and weapons systems. It was largey though him that the F-15 and F-16 were funded from prototype to production. and both have served us well over the past 30 years.

He was also correct with canceling the B-1 bomber.

Carter, however, seems to have developed dementia as he's grown older.

205 Irish Rose  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:55:47pm

re: #196 Charles

They work so hard at the dramatic flounce-off comments.

I almost feel guilty about instantly deleting them.

OK, I'm over feeling guilty now.

You should archive 'em ;).

206 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:55:53pm

re: #179 rokbassist

The analogy to Chavez I can accept, because there is some truth there. But the thing to remember is that Fascism had a major militaristic component that Obama does not possess, plus a desire to lash out that he lacks. If anything, I'd say the TeaPartiers are closer to being Fascist than Obama.

207 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:55:56pm

re: #186 Charles

Flounce #3.

flounce on, founce on

208 avanti  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:56:06pm

re: #58 Conservative Moonbat

OT:

Pro-Charles diary at Kos (No, I didn't write it.)

Even a voice of reason from a site not always reasonable, this comment:

"And now, as I noted in a long comment elsewhere, Johnson seems to be steering toward moral introspection, intellectual honesty, rejection of hypocrisy, etc., and trying to steer his community there as well.

It's not surprising he's become very unpopular among his former allies, but I applaud the changes I saw in my recent foray there. To the extent that he's still influential, perhaps he can start leading conservatives away from the abyss. That would be good for all of us.

I could not have said it better. Even some lefties know we need a loyal and sane opposition.

209 pianobuff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:56:13pm

re: #202 Killgore Trout

Thou shalt not flounce.
-LaRouche 10:15

I wonder if Tigger ever flounced while he bounced.

210 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:56:30pm

One should be very careful threatening Liberal politicians. If you threaten them with guns, they vote against your second amendment rights. If you threaten them with words, they vote against your free speech. If you threaten to vote them out of office.. well, they've got ACORN working on that one.

211 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:56:43pm

re: #207 The Shadow Do

flounce on, founce on

.. cue trippy guitar solo

212 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:56:48pm

re: #185 HelloDare

This was just posted in the Spinoffs upstairs.

And how many $$$BILLION has Obama committed to ACORN?

213 jaunte  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:56:52pm

re: #206 Dark_Falcon

If Obama was a fascist, he would be warning us against an external enemy that all pure, true Americans should be on guard against.

214 sngnsgt  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:56:55pm

re: #132 lawhawk

re: #133 The Shadow Do

Naaa, I'm just a die hard hockey fan. I'm from NW PA originally, I played a little when I was younger, but I follow it every season. Since I moved out to Vegas, I've been a season ticket holder for every hockey team there's ever been here. We have a few LA Kings and Phoenix Coyotes pre-season games here. I should be able to catch one this year, it's always a fun road trip to LA or Phoenix too.

215 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:56:58pm

re: #177 DrNaughty

I never heard a peep out of the Democrats two years ago either, other than the derogatory comments about President Bush. I presume that they believe they were needed for him to get though each day while in office, as clearly, in the minds of Democrats President Bush was far too ignorant to manage to get though each day by his own volition.

However, it appears that even Democrats in congress are quite concerned about obama's many, many , many unconfirmed advisiors.

.

Apparently. Only the people marching in the streets have the sense to worry. And they only know to worry because someone on TV told them czars were scary. Like I said. Talking points.

216 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:56:59pm

re: #194 Sharmuta

The true story of the tea parties HAS been told at LGF. They are being run by kooks- paulians, truthers and racists.

Does this mean that all of us who disagree with obama's policies are one of the above ?

217 PatriotLizardoid  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:57:03pm

re: #174 ggt

IMHO, the only thing this brand of whackos are doing is giving ammuntion to those who would like to re-instate the "assault weapons" ban and at this rate, they will probably gain enough momentum to repeal the 2nd Amendment.

That will only happen if the media (and I mean blogs + MSM) focuses solely on the fringe lunatics who are stupid enough to bring signs that advocate even a hint of a threat. People are scared. They are fed up, and they don't feel listened to.

When you get 50,000 or so people together, more than a few are going to be more than one standard deviation below the mean standard IQ... so you're going to get some pretty colorful stuff.

I'm all for pointing out stupidity and deriding it. But I will not let that portion of it color my ENTIRE impression of a people expressing their right to peaceful assembly (and peaceful it was, however disconcerting)...

218 gantww  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:57:08pm

re: #190 ggt

I think it's like when you take out a home equity loan and get that little checkbook. It seems like you have money . . .

You'd be surprised how many people think that way...

On second thought, "surprised" isn't the right word. "Appalled", maybe.

219 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:57:42pm

re: #210 Mauser

If you threaten to vote them out of office.. well, they've got ACORN working on that one.

not for long

220 pianobuff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:58:13pm

BBL. Don't drink and flounce.

221 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:58:16pm

I calling it a night soon, but I've been watching Fox, my favorite channel, for a while tonight.

I see all these "protesters" at various function, call them tea parties or whatever, being interviewed, but not one that I have listened to have anything to say other than the vaguest of claims that we are turning to communism/socialism/dictatorshhip/conspiracy/anti-constitution, and so on; and in case I forget, that they have been called silly names.

I haven't got a clue how to respond to these people in a public one sentence forum, other than calling them names; even as I am sure they are mostly nice people I would like to meet, without discussing politics.

Has it always been this way, or am I seeing something new and unpleasant developing?

222 rokbassist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:58:24pm

re: #191 jaunte

That's really more corporatism than fascism.

I don't see the difference, other than corporatists may function as such by choice, while fascists do it by force. Although GM and Chrysler, for example, did enter their Devil's pacts by choice, some banks were forced to accept bailout funds or risk retribution through punitive action and legislation.

223 McSpiff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:58:33pm

re: #216 DrNaughty

Does this mean that all of us who disagree with obama's policies are one of the above ?

Yes. The only possible form of protest or opposition is by having tea parties, essentially dooming anyone who doesn't support Obama to racist paulian status.

224 eastsider  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:58:33pm

re: #195 Salamantis

The actual litmus test issues seem to be socon issues, such as antiabortionism, anti-gay marriage or civil unions, and pro-creationism in public school science class.

The wingers in the presidential primaries won't let anyone who doesn't pass theses litmus tests get nominated; the electorate in the general won't let anyone who does pass them win.

And therein lies the Republican conundrum.

I agree. I think gay marriage/civil unions could really be a breaking point. Its a generational thing. 25 and youngers are pretty strong for allowing gay marriage. In terms of longterm strategy, alienating a large (and growing) chunk of the youngest generation is probably not going to win you elections 10-15 years down the road.

225 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:58:54pm

re: #184 Charles

I don't think so. We haven't even glimpsed how bad it's going to get.

Thank you Charles, for that cheering analysis. I will now go put a frozen pizza in the oven, and slam the door quickly before I'm tempted to put my head in there too.

//Not to worry, folks, it's an electric oven. I'll have a glass of wine and be perfectly OK

226 JHW  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:59:02pm

re: #160 ggt

I am beginning to think we need an LGF encyclopedia. The first submission should be a concise explanation of fascism--in all of it's many flavors.

I'm going to re-post this one, it's the best succinct definition I've seen. Anyone care to critique it?

Fascism and Nazism as ideologies involve, to varying degrees, some of the following hallmarks:

*** Nationalism and super-patriotism with a sense of historic mission.

*** Aggressive militarism even to the extent of glorifying war as good for the national or individual spirit.

*** Use of violence or threats of violence to impose views on others (fascism and Nazism both employed street violence and state violence at different moments in their development).

*** Authoritarian reliance on a leader or elite not constitutionally responsible to an electorate.

*** Cult of personality around a charismatic leader.

*** Reaction against the values of Modernism, usually with emotional attacks against both liberalism and communism.

*** Exhortations for the homogeneous masses of common folk (Volkish in German, Populist in the U.S.) to join voluntarily in a heroic mission_often metaphysical and romanticized in character.

*** Dehumanization and scapegoating of the enemy_seeing the enemy as an inferior or subhuman force, perhaps involved in a conspiracy that justifies eradicating them.

*** The self image of being a superior form of social organization beyond socialism, capitalism and democracy.

*** Elements of national socialist ideological roots, for example, ostensible support for the industrial working class or farmers; but ultimately, the forging of an alliance with an elite sector of society.

*** Abandonment of any consistent ideology in a drive for state power.


What is Fascism?

227 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:59:04pm

re: #208 avanti

Charles (and myself) have been very harsh on the Koskidz over the past few years. Sadly, they are now more rational that what's going on with the right. It's not anything to be proud of.

228 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:59:08pm

re: #179 rokbassist

Taking over industry after industry through excessive regulation and taxation while leaving it in private hands is fascism. While the companies are ostensibly privately owned, they are essentially run and controlled by the government. GM is a good example. I have no idea what Goldberg's definition is, I haven't seen it, and I do know there are many ideas what constitutes fascism. Historians and politicos do not agree on the exact definition. I think Obama is more a Marxist than a fascist, but instituting straight-out Marxism won't fly, so he works the system by taking over industry through regulation rather than direct ownership, a la Chavez.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Fascism and Communism and Theocracy are all forms of collectivist totalitarianism - that's what they have in common. However, they differ in the rationales they proffer as their excuse to usurp individual freedom in the service of collectivity. Fascism justifies it on the basis of racial purity and supremacy. Communism justifies it on the basis of the erasure of class distinctions. And theocracies justify it in the name of some revealed religious scripture or other.

The opposite of collectivist totalitarianism is anarchism, and there is only one type; since they desire the complete and utter absence of all government whatsoever, they don't indulge in multiple different justifications for governmental forms.

What we have, a constitutional democratic republic, occupies the sweet spot moderate center between these extremes. It recognizes that, since many things that are necessary for the functioning of modern society and culture cannot be accomplished by solitary individuals, there must be a means by which people can reach consensuses (consensii?) and cooperatively act upon them, and has chosen the popular election of representatives as our means by which we discern and implement such consensuses.

229 Danny  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:59:12pm

re: #216 DrNaughty

Does this mean that all of us who disagree with obama's policies are one of the above ?

An equally logical question is, does it mean we all like bacon?

230 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:59:25pm

re: #215 SanFranciscoZionist

Apparently. Only the people marching in the streets have the sense to worry. And they only know to worry because someone on TV told them czars were scary. Like I said. Talking points.

And in yoru view that if one opposes obama's views, all you have are "talking points", instead of opposing viewpoints ?

231 gantww  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:59:43pm

re: #204 DrNaughty

Carter and Michael Jackson both have a lot in common, in my mind. They both were something before I was really aware, then they got all messed up and creepy. The messed up and creepy part is most of my understanding of them.

Although Smooth Criminal is still better than stagflation.

232 Desert Dog  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:00:06pm

re: #229 Danny

An equally logical question is, does it mean we all like bacon?

I vote yes for bacon!

233 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:00:23pm

re: #221 Naso Tang

Playing devil's advocate - these people do something for a living other than talk on TV. Take you average person and put them on the spot with a giant TV camera pointed at them, they will probably say something that they will later wish they could call a redo on.

234 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:00:29pm

re: #223 McSpiff

Yes. The only possible form of protest or opposition is by having tea parties, essentially dooming anyone who doesn't support Obama to racist paulian status.

So, in other words, if you oppose obama's policies you're a racist ?

235 HelloDare  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:00:33pm

re: #212 Capitalist Tool

And how many $$$BILLION has Obama committed to ACORN?

I think at one point there was something like 4.6 billion that would have gone to groups like ACORN. How much of that money ACORN would have received is unknown.

236 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:00:36pm

re: #219 cliffster

We can hope.

The question is, will they go under the bus, or be rescued? They are kinda big to fit under the bus.

237 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:00:45pm

re: #206 Dark_Falcon

The analogy to Chavez I can accept, because there is some truth there. But the thing to remember is that Fascism had a major militaristic component that Obama does not possess, plus a desire to lash out that he lacks. If anything, I'd say the TeaPartiers are closer to being Fascist than Obama.


Obama's proposal for a civilian force as strong as the military was a good indicator... somebody told him to cool it with that talk or we'd be hearing more of it.

Why do you think the Tea- party people are closer to Fascism than some of Obama's actions and rhetoric?

238 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:00:47pm

Pre-emptive block stops imminent flounce behind the scenes!

239 Desert Dog  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:01:09pm

re: #234 DrNaughty

So, in other words, if you oppose obama's policies you're a racist ?

No, it means you like bacon. (You might be a racists too though)

240 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:01:34pm

re: #238 Charles

Pre-emptive block stops imminent flounce behind the scenes!

9-second delay?

241 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:01:37pm

re: #201 Irish Rose

Jimmeh, Dark Falcon and Gus 802, I have something I'd like to ask you if you'd be kind enough to email. Click the blue.

OK, answered.

You moderate the posts there right? I'd do it from time to time but has to be a full block of the stalkers.

242 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:01:39pm

re: #208 avanti

What I don't understand is that those that have been here for years, particularly prior to 2004, have this misconception that Charles is a conservative just because he had some conservative views. But he certainly had lots of other views the conservatives didn't share. Terri Schiavo comes to mind among others.

So if you believe in one thing, you have to believe in the rest? There were always diverse posters here, even if in the minority.

243 jaunte  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:01:48pm

re: #222 rokbassist

I don't see the difference, other than corporatists may function as such by choice, while fascists do it by force. Although GM and Chrysler, for example, did enter their Devil's pacts by choice, some banks were forced to accept bailout funds or risk retribution through punitive action and legislation.

Sure, but corporatism isn't voluntary. A corporatist government mandates relationships between private industries that supposedly will benefit the greater society. Fascist governments have had that as a feature, but it's just one part of fascism.

244 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:01:59pm

re: #231 gantww

Carter and Michael Jackson both have a lot in common, in my mind. They both were something before I was really aware, then they got all messed up and creepy. The messed up and creepy part is most of my understanding of them.

Although Smooth Criminal is still better than stagflation.

Jackson was creepy for decades. I still remember him showing up at the White House to meet Reagan wearing some sort of little soldier outfit...

245 Enkidu90046  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:02:20pm

re: #187 HoosierHoops

Once..I watched a Raiders practice when I was young when it was on Bay Farm Island in Alameda.. I was peeking behind the curtain on the fence..Everyone had left the field and took a shower and was going home.. Lester Hayes was outside on the field for hours just destroying shit with pure anger..I'm peeking at the fenceline and going this dude is crazy..Who would want to meet up with him on a Sunday afternoon? Not me!

I posted this in the last thread...

Despite being a Raider-hater, it was not always so:

As a very young kid, I met Killer Lawrence at dinner when my parents decided to eat out... they happened to eat out at the hotel where the Raiders were staying to play the Seahawks the next day. I was loudly complaining and refusing to eat my vegetables, when Killer Lawrence came to the table to ask what the problem was. When told, Killer promised me that if I ate my veggies I would grow up to be as big and strong as him. He also convinced me to root for the Raiders against the Seahawks (the only time I actually did)... of course, the Seahawks ended up blowing out the Raiders (and I am still waiting to grow up to be as big and strong as Killer Lawrence).

That was the first and last time I ever rooted for the Raiders.

246 Chekote  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:02:26pm

It always amazes me that the loudest crazies in the pro-life movement are mostly men. It is irritating too. Speaking as a woman.

247 HelloDare  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:02:32pm

re: #238 Charles

Pre-emptive block stops imminent flounce behind the scenes!

Sounds like a National Enquirer headline.

248 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:02:46pm

re: #116 jaunte

A partial list of czars appointed by George W. Bush.

Cyber Security Czar
Regulatory Czar
Katrina Czar
Manufacturing Czar
Drug Czar
Domestic Policy Czar
War Czar
Copyright Czar
AIDS Czar
Bird Flu Czar
Intelligence Czar
Health Czar
Health IT Czar
Abstinence Czar
Mine Safety Czar
Latin American Czar
WTO Czar
Corruption Czar
Privacy Czar
Sudan Czar

NOT ONE SPORTS CZAR!
Who is really the victim here? I see how it is...
Write your Congressman/Woman.. I am available as the Sports Czar..Who can you trust Lizards? Think about it..I could arrange the Cuban National Baseball team to kidnap Beck and hold him in an undisclosed Carabean Island...As Sports Czar I could rule the world! I'd put Tiger Woods on Hold...Just to mess with his head...

249 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:03:00pm

re: #214 sngnsgt

re: #133 The Shadow Do

Naaa, I'm just a die hard hockey fan. I'm from NW PA originally, I played a little when I was younger, but I follow it every season. Since I moved out to Vegas, I've been a season ticket holder for every hockey team there's ever been here. We have a few LA Kings and Phoenix Coyotes pre-season games here. I should be able to catch one this year, it's always a fun road trip to LA or Phoenix too.

I'm very cool with you. I was a 'yute in N. Indiana and played the frozen ponds and even went on to play Jr Hockey (Ft Wayne Jr Comets!). I sort of quit the game when I came home from the local pond game with a gashed leg requireing stitches ankle to knee, and my best bud lost all his front teeth ( we had a rule, no pucks off the ice - yeah sure...)

Hockey is a great game! Now in Dallas, I am stuck with a declining Stars team.

250 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:03:17pm

re: #193 rokbassist

He';s not an asshole. But you are for calling him one without provocation.

251 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:03:18pm

re: #230 DrNaughty

And in yoru view that if one opposes obama's views, all you have are "talking points", instead of opposing viewpoints ?

You're being a fool. There are plenty of people, even on this site, who oppose Obama's POLITICS, and can explain why. They have specific concerns, about real things that are really happening, and understand the history behind them.

Someone who just heard of a czar, and is really worried about them, because only Jesus is supposed to be our king is using talking points.

252 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:03:24pm

re: #246 Chekote

It always amazes me that the loudest crazies in the pro-life movement are mostly men. It is irritating too. Speaking as a woman.

It shouldn't amaze you -- it comes from a long tradition of misogyny and sexism.

253 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:03:45pm

Maybe someone already had made this point.

I usually don't talk about what I have to bring to bear. Well, I might chat a bit but, I DON'T MAKE A FUCKING POSTER ABOUT IT.

To me, it's the same thing as a man who brags about the size of his penis.

254 esch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:03:47pm

re: #246 Chekote

It always amazes me that the loudest crazies in the pro-life movement are mostly men. It is irritating too. Speaking as a woman.

And I've met some really insistent pro-circumcision women.

255 gantww  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:04:03pm

re: #244 DrNaughty

Jackson was creepy for decades. I still remember him showing up at the White House to meet Reagan wearing some sort of little soldier outfit...

I was born at the very tail end of the Carter administration. So Michael had a prosthetic nose longer than I was aware he existed.

256 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:04:06pm

re: #233 cliffster

Playing devil's advocate - these people do something for a living other than talk on TV. Take you average person and put them on the spot with a giant TV camera pointed at them, they will probably say something that they will later wish they could call a redo on.

I wish that were true, but I do suspect that out of many interviewed only a few are shown. Many seem like they are well trained to interview for a job. I would at least offer a few hhem hhaws, uhhs and have a hair out of place. At least pretend to be GWB.

257 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:04:08pm

re: #251 SanFranciscoZionist

You're being a fool. There are plenty of people, even on this site, who oppose Obama's POLITICS, and can explain why. They have specific concerns, about real things that are really happening, and understand the history behind them.

Someone who just heard of a czar, and is really worried about them, because only Jesus is supposed to be our king is using talking points.

Robert Byrd ?

258 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:04:13pm

re: #248 HoosierHoops

So, if you're suffering a mid-life crisis, you want to become a Sports Czar?

259 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:04:18pm

re: #226 JHW

What is Fascism?

You forgot the right to bear arms --always taken away by the collectivists--and tyrants. Can't control a population that has the ability to fight back.

Now, of what I know of fascism (lets see if I can remember all this):

As an Economic System: the famous "third-way". An attempt to meld capitalism and socialism.

As a Political System: 1-party, democratic

As a . . .that's all I can remember of systems. . . what's left, social system?

260 avanti  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:05:00pm

One thing that stood out to me in the video was that most of the folks were not evil, just misinformed. The conversation about czar's for example was illustrative. they were apparently unaware there had been czar's since Nixon, nor knew that they were just advisers.
It seemed to me, they were patriots, uninformed patriots though, and were being spoon fed scary shit from Beck and his type. There is something basically wrong with taking advantage of the ignorant, no matter which side they are on.

261 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:05:06pm

re: #258 Mauser

So, if you're suffering a mid-life crisis, you want to become a Sports Czar?

I'd settle for Commissioner of Baseball.

Bud Selig is an obamanation...

262 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:05:24pm

re: #246 Chekote

It always amazes me that the loudest crazies in the pro-life movement are mostly men. It is irritating too. Speaking as a woman.

Why does it amaze you?

263 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:05:27pm

re: #232 Desert Dog

I vote yes for bacon!

kevin?

264 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:05:44pm

re: #260 avanti

One thing that stood out to me in the video was that most of the folks were not evil, just misinformed. The conversation about czar's for example was illustrative. they were apparently unaware there had been czar's since Nixon, nor knew that they were just advisers.
It seemed to me, they were patriots, uninformed patriots though, and were being spoon fed scary shit from Beck and his type. There is something basically wrong with taking advantage of the ignorant, no matter which side they are on.

Democrats have been doing that for years

265 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:05:44pm

re: #156 esch

Perhaps they've vastly overstretched their reach into areas the founders never intended?

If you need a Czar for it, you shouldn't be doing it.

Bush's Abstinence Czar is now extremely confused.
/

266 Chekote  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:05:57pm

re: #252 Charles

They don't give a chit about the kids. They just hate the idea that women have control over their lives. IMO.

267 gantww  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:06:57pm

re: #254 esch

And I've met some really insistent pro-circumcision women.

Ooh. This will be good. Getting the popcorn, be right back.

268 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:06:59pm

re: #261 DrNaughty

Wah! Nobody catches my puns!

:-)

269 Jack Burton  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:07:09pm

re: #238 Charles

Pre-emptive block stops imminent flounce behind the scenes!

A preemptive "shhh"?

Do you have a whole bag of "shhh" with sockpuppets' names on it?

270 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:07:29pm

re: #242 marjoriemoon

What I don't understand is that those that have been here for years, particularly prior to 2004, have this misconception that Charles is a conservative just because he had some conservative views. But he certainly had lots of other views the conservatives didn't share. Terri Schiavo comes to mind among others.

So if you believe in one thing, you have to believe in the rest? There were always diverse posters here, even if in the minority.

There was, IMHO, a bit of cleanup here a few years ago. Personally I think there are a lot of shy people who you would not have wanted your daughter to date, that hung out because they liked to read what some others were spouting. Now they are suddenly finding that they are lost, and flouncing is all they are capable of.

271 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:07:38pm

Senate votes to deny funds to ACORN

The Senate voted Monday to block the Housing and Urban Development Department from giving grants to ACORN, a community organization under fire in several voter-registration fraud cases.

The 83-7 vote would deny housing and community grant funding to ACORN, which stands for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now.

The action came as the group is suffering from bad publicity after a duo of conservative activists posing as a prostitute and her pimp released hidden-camera videos in which ACORN employees in Baltimore gave advice on house-buying and how to account on tax forms for the woman's income. Two other videos, aired frequently on media outlets such as the Fox News Channel, depict similar situations in ACORN offices in Brooklyn and Washington, D.C.

/the "Hooker Hat Trick" scores again

272 garycooper  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:07:41pm

re: #231 gantww

Carter and Michael Jackson both have a lot in common, in my mind. They both were something before I was really aware, then they got all messed up and creepy. The messed up and creepy part is most of my understanding of them.

Although Smooth Criminal is still better than stagflation.

Similar to my early experience with Elvis Presley, in the '70's, when he was a big, gross, sweaty load of Las Vegas schmaltz, with a bunch of terrible movies that weren't even good for a laugh. Later, I came to appreciate his early greatness, and see him as a dark harbinger of what was to come for so many rock stars and other entertainers, done in totally by too much, too soon, and too many forms of chemical dependence.

273 Danny  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:08:12pm

re: #238 Charles

Pre-emptive block stops imminent flounce behind the scenes!

Aw, no fun for us!

274 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:08:42pm

Family calls, bbiab.

Hopefully, I tried that the other night and it didn't work.

275 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:08:46pm

re: #272 garycooper

Similar to my early experience with Elvis Presley, in the '70's, when he was a big, gross, sweaty load of Las Vegas schmaltz, with a bunch of terrible movies that weren't even good for a laugh. Later, I came to appreciate his early greatness, and see him as a dark harbinger of what was to come for so many rock stars and other entertainers, done in totally by too much, too soon, and too many forms of chemical dependence.

I remember the "stamp vote" in 1993... I voted for the younger Elvis..

276 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:08:49pm

re: #266 Chekote

They don't give a chit about the kids. They just hate the idea that women have control over their lives. IMO.

You say that, based on what?

277 disillusioned  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:08:51pm

I have to agree some of the outrageous people are not helping their cause. However, Obama has been lying and there are many responsible people jst as upset as a few of the whackos. One should not lose sight of the fact that Obama will say or do anything to pass this takeover of healthcare. Obama provided an empty speech the other night that offered nothing but the lies Joe Wilson accused him of.

278 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:08:55pm

re: #257 DrNaughty

Robert Byrd ?

Born Cornelius Calvin Sale, Jr.!

Former Exalted Cyclops!

Father-in-law of a guy named Mohammed!

(What are we going for here?)

279 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:08:58pm

re: #266 Chekote

They don't give a chit about the kids. They just hate the idea that women have control over their lives. IMO.

They only care about children while they're in the womb.

280 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:09:06pm

re: #237 Capitalist Tool

Obama's proposal for a civilian force as strong as the military was a good indicator... somebody told him to cool it with that talk or we'd be hearing more of it.

Why do you think the Tea- party people are closer to Fascism than some of Obama's actions and rhetoric?

It the violence and racism of their speeches and signs. Obama is a strident leftist, but he has never been violent in any way.

281 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:09:13pm

re: #271 Killian Bundy

/the "Hooker Hat Trick" scores again

After hearing the guy on Hannity tonight, it sounds like tomorrow it will the the "Hooker four-play".

282 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:09:27pm

re: #246 Chekote

It always amazes me that the loudest crazies in the pro-life movement are mostly men. It is irritating too. Speaking as a woman.

Abortion?
Sure, you ladies go for it.
You are free to do whatever you want.
Freedom only means that we are free to live out the consequences of our own thoughts and actions.

283 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:09:49pm

re: #279 Charles

They only care about children while they're in the womb.

A lot of people care about kids, both in and out of the womb.

284 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:09:55pm

re: #271 Killian Bundy

Senate votes to deny funds to ACORN


/the "Hooker Hat Trick" scores again

FUCKING A!

285 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:09:57pm

re: #257 DrNaughty

Robert Byrd ?

Wait, do you think I'm Robert Byrd? I'm not Robert Byrd. I'm Harry Reid.

286 eastsider  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:10:30pm

re: #285 SanFranciscoZionist

Wait, do you think I'm Robert Byrd? I'm not Robert Byrd. I'm Harry Reid.

thought you were batman

/

287 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:10:32pm

re: #275 DrNaughty

I remember the "stamp vote" in 1993... I voted for the younger Elvis..

Thank you very much
/young Elvis

288 fat bastard vegetarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:10:40pm

WOLVERINES!

289 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:10:51pm

re: #282 Capitalist Tool

Abortion?
Sure, you ladies go for it.
You are free to do whatever you want.
Freedom only means that we are free to live out the consequences of our own thoughts and actions.

That is quite true, assuming it is all you mean.

290 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:10:58pm

re: #270 Naso Tang

There was, IMHO, a bit of cleanup here a few years ago. Personally I think there are a lot of shy people who you would not have wanted your daughter to date, that hung out because they liked to read what some others were spouting. Now they are suddenly finding that they are lost, and flouncing is all they are capable of.

There's been quite a few cleanups all along the way. Without trying to put words in his mouth, my impression is that Charles started this place as an open forum, free speech where most anything goes. That didn't work out well for him and I can guarantee you those others who think it's so easy to run a blog will surely find out.

I sometimes wonder if the flouncing is more for their new daddies than their old one.

291 Desert Dog  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:11:32pm

re: #279 Charles

They only care about children while they're in the womb.

I'm no Pro-life nut, but that is not fair, is it?

292 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:11:36pm

re: #279 Charles

They only care about children while they're in the womb.

Not all, but too many.

293 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:11:58pm

re: #33 Charles

The definition of flouncing.

Har!

I'm so stealing this Flounce™ graphic from Encyclopedia Dramatica...

294 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:12:07pm

re: #281 Mauser

After hearing the guy on Hannity tonight, it sounds like tomorrow it will the the "Hooker four-play".

/they're definitely out to make a point, one day at a time, ACORN shouldn't receive any federal funding, period

295 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:12:10pm

re: #286 eastsider

thought you were batman

/

I'm also Batman.

296 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:12:14pm

re: #289 Naso Tang

That is quite true, assuming it is all you mean.

What do you mean?

297 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:12:21pm

re: #279 Charles

They only care about children while they're in the womb.

Sometimes it seems that way, unfortunately. Pro Life but Pro Death Penalty, Anti Welfare, Anti Public Healthcare, etc. These things seem to go together often. Not always, but often.

298 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:13:20pm

re: #294 Killian Bundy

/they're definitely out to make a point, one day at a time, ACORN shouldn't receive any federal funding, period

It's a hell of a strategy, parceling them out like this. They made ACORN blow their defensive wad early in the game, and now they're getting buried.

299 Enkidu90046  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:13:32pm

re: #266 Chekote

They don't give a chit about the kids. They just hate the idea that women have control over their lives. IMO.

I am strongly pro-choice, but I have to disagree here. I used to demonize the pro-life movement, but after a GF had an abortion many years ago, I understood a great deal more where the pro-life movement comes from and understand why they believe what they do... and it isn't out of animus for women.

300 Dar ul Harbarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:13:57pm

re: #279 Charles

They only care about children while they're in the womb.

I am sure there are more than a few Catholic orphanages that would take issue with that.

301 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:13:59pm

re: #291 Desert Dog

I'm no Pro-life nut, but that is not fair, is it?

Fair and accurate and on the money.

But I'm not bitter.

302 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:14:06pm

Side note: we're going to rack up well over 150,000 page views today.

303 gantww  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:14:12pm

re: #297 Locker

Sometimes it seems that way, unfortunately. Pro Life but Pro Death Penalty, Anti Welfare, Anti Public Healthcare, etc. These things seem to go together often. Not always, but often.

I've always looked at welfare as sort of a fee that you pay to keep from getting looted and killed by poor people. I know that sounds really cynical, but the underlying reality is that a "slave" revolt is always a matter of concern for the more comfortable classes. I don't pay it for the children - I pay it for mine.

304 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:14:27pm

re: #281 Mauser

After hearing the guy on Hannity tonight, it sounds like tomorrow it will the the "Hooker four-play".

I'd expect him to save some of the nastiest stuff for late in the game. Breitbart, and O'Keefe are drawing things out to maximize the damage to ACORN. Whatever else happens, ACORN will not be a political factor for the rest of this year. That will weaken the left's ability to mount protest and pressure officials. I'd call that weakening a legit win for conservatives, and it didn't require any Bad Craziness, either.

305 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:14:36pm

re: #279 Charles

They only care about children while they're in the womb.

Oh, dear me.

306 esch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:14:40pm

re: #297 Locker

Sometimes it seems that way, unfortunately. Pro Life but Pro Death Penalty, Anti Welfare, Anti Public Healthcare, etc. These things seem to go together often. Not always, but often.

Oh Jebus.

All those come down to personal responsibility and consequences for your actions. Enforcing those is the business of the state, not providing compassion.

307 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:14:53pm

re: #258 Mauser

So, if you're suffering a mid-life crisis, you want to become a Sports Czar?

Admit it..It would be the coolest job in the world...Imagine what you could do to baseball...I'd play golf with Tiger..
Pray with Tony Dungy ( He is long winded)
SuperBowl Suites and private dinners with Joe Montana
I could outlaw the LA Lakers...A national security issue...Gitmo for Kobe..
I could really mess with Hockey..After every fight they would have to kiss and makeup..Trust me... no more fights..Just athletic competition..
I'd make a steriod baseball league..We could watch 400 lb monsters hit the ball 600 feet.
Imagine the power if I were the Sports Czar..
*wink*

308 Desert Dog  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:14:55pm

re: #297 Locker

Sometimes it seems that way, unfortunately. Pro Life but Pro Death Penalty, Anti Welfare, Anti Public Healthcare, etc. These things seem to go together often. Not always, but often.

Rich in charity, more prone to adoption. The real hardcore religious hucksters are probably in that category. I am not religious at all...haven't been inside a church in many years, but I am pro-life. I put my money where my mouth is too...my youngest is adopted

309 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:15:16pm

Excuse me, I guess I forgot my mandatory disclaimer: I'm not talking about all anti-choice people when I say "they only care about children when they're in the womb."

But I am talking about a LOT of them.

310 McSpiff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:15:27pm

re: #234 DrNaughty

So, in other words, if you oppose obama's policies you're a racist ?

Sigh, this reply isnt just directed at you DrNaughty, but instead at everyone saying something along the lines of "Well, there was good people with real grievances similar to mine at the Tea Parties, does that make us all racist?"

This may also get me some down dings or worse...but...
No one goes to Klan rallies because you like bonfires and white robes,. Does this mean everyone who likes white robes or bon fires are racist? No! Are people at Klan rallies probably racist? Yes.

So dont go to tea parties because you support tax reform, or dislike health care proposals, because you'll be supporting groups that have finance reform proposals that include stuff like "send the usurper back to kenya hurrr". Support real groups pushing for real reform. Dont give these assholes who crawl out of holes like Free Republic any appearance of numbers. If you associate with racists and wanna-be revolutionaries, im gonna damn well assume you are one.

/rant done.

311 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:16:08pm

re: #290 marjoriemoon

There's been quite a few cleanups all along the way. Without trying to put words in his mouth, my impression is that Charles started this place as an open forum, free speech where most anything goes. That didn't work out well for him and I can guarantee you those others who think it's so easy to run a blog will surely find out.

I sometimes wonder if the flouncing is more for their new daddies than their old one.

Yes, I suspect it is like an exit ticket that gives an entry somewhere else. Given the dearth of posts by flouncers, with a few exceptions, they would seem to be mostly lurkers looking for a new ditto home.

You've been around longer than me, so I'm sure you have a clearer image.

312 Chekote  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:16:10pm

re: #276 cliffster

Because they would be the first to complain about having to pay welfare to support the kids. There are so many born children around the world dying of hunger. Suffering. Why not take care of them first? Or at least have the same concern about them as for the unborn? Maybe I am wrong. But my impression is that all the focus is stopping abortion. Once born, it is like so long buddy.

Let me apologize if I offended anybody. It just IMHO. I might be totally wrong and don't want to get into any fights.

313 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:16:37pm

re: #302 Charles

Side note: we're going to rack up well over 150,000 page views today.

Is that a record or close to it?

314 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:17:03pm

re: #303 gantww

I've always looked at welfare as sort of a fee that you pay to keep from getting looted and killed by poor people. I know that sounds really cynical, but the underlying reality is that a "slave" revolt is always a matter of concern for the more comfortable classes. I don't pay it for the children - I pay it for mine.

You can't know, obviously, how much I respect this perspective. I do care about their children but I care about mine as well. Crime and violence have their roots in poverty. One thing I always thought conservatives should grab on to with regard to a safe and secure society thing.

315 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:17:13pm
316 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:17:23pm

re: #302 Charles

Side note: we're going to rack up well over 150,000 page views today.

How many from Reuters? :=>

317 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:17:53pm

re: #313 Sharmuta

Is that a record or close to it?

No -- during some of the major stories LGF broke, we had over 300,000 page views in a single day. But it's very high for an ordinary news day.

318 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:17:58pm

re: #307 HoosierHoops

Admit it..It would be the coolest job in the world...Imagine what you could do to baseball...I'd play golf with Tiger..
Pray with Tony Dungy ( He is long winded)
SuperBowl Suites and private dinners with Joe Montana
I could outlaw the LA Lakers...A national security issue...Gitmo for Kobe..
I could really mess with Hockey..After every fight they would have to kiss and makeup..Trust me... no more fights..Just athletic competition..
I'd make a steriod baseball league..We could watch 400 lb monsters hit the ball 600 feet.
Imagine the power if I were the Sports Czar..
*wink*

I'd make Adrian Peterson play for every team in every game. Awesome!

/but please, no kissing in hockey...

319 Coracle  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:18:15pm

re: #210 Mauser

One should be very careful threatening Liberal politicians. If you threaten them with guns, they vote against your second amendment rights. If you threaten them with words, they vote against your free speech. If you threaten to vote them out of office.. well, they've got ACORN working on that one.

All very pretty language, if any of it were true. To one point, if you threaten people with guns, it's called assault with a deadly weapon.

320 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:18:19pm

re: #309 Charles

Excuse me, I guess I forgot my mandatory disclaimer: I'm not talking about all anti-choice people when I say "they only care about children when they're in the womb."

But I am talking about a LOT of them.

I don't think they care about the child in utero either- they care about controlling women. The unborn are a tool for them to use.

321 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:18:31pm

re: #306 esch

Oh Jebus.

All those come down to personal responsibility and consequences for your actions. Enforcing those is the business of the state, not providing compassion.

I respectfully disagree. Promote the general welfare...

322 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:18:36pm

re: #304 Dark_Falcon

Whatever else happens, ACORN will not be a political factor for the rest of this year. That will weaken the left's ability to mount protest and pressure officials.

/I don't know, Bertha's got a lot of friends and shame isn't in their vocabulary

323 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:18:42pm

re: #306 esch

Oh Jebus.

All those come down to personal responsibility and consequences for your actions. Enforcing those is the business of the state, not providing compassion.

So the people weeping because the state won't save the children are entitled to throw a hissy fit if the state spends their tax money on the children? I'm sorry, but there's a limit on the 'personal responsibility' shtick, and by me it's under eighteen.

324 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:18:53pm

re: #304 Dark_Falcon

I'd expect him to save some of the nastiest stuff for late in the game. Breitbart, and O'Keefe are drawing things out to maximize the damage to ACORN. Whatever else happens, ACORN will not be a political factor for the rest of this year. That will weaken the left's ability to mount protest and pressure officials. I'd call that weakening a legit win for conservatives, and it didn't require any Bad Craziness, either.

They're already playing the Marion Barry "That bitch set me up!" card. But no one foced the crack pipe between the Mayor's lips, and no one forced the ACORN people in all these offices to offer suggestions on how to get away with housing underaged illegal immigrant brothels.

325 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:18:57pm

re: #302 Charles

Side note: we're going to rack up well over 150,000 page views today.


open up registration?

running out of crazies for target practice.

326 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:19:13pm

re: #312 Chekote

No fights necessary. I understand your frustration at people's holier-than-thou attitudes. But there are many who care about the unborn, and also would do much to care for them once they are born. And not with Other People's Money either.

327 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:19:14pm

re: #308 Desert Dog

Rich in charity, more prone to adoption. The real hardcore religious hucksters are probably in that category. I am not religious at all...haven't been inside a church in many years, but I am pro-life. I put my money where my mouth is too...my youngest is adopted

Respect.

328 Dar ul Harbarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:19:19pm

Is it a comet?
No!
Is it a meteor?
No!

ITS ASTRONAUT URINE!

329 avanti  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:19:26pm

re: #227 Killgore Trout

Charles (and myself) have been very harsh on the Koskidz over the past few years. Sadly, they are now more rational that what's going on with the right. It's not anything to be proud of.

In fairness, many of them are are still pretty far out there, but I agree some on the right are plowing new ground.

330 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:19:47pm

re: #314 Locker

You can't know, obviously, how much I respect this perspective. I do care about their children but I care about mine as well. Crime and violence have their roots in poverty. One thing I always thought conservatives should grab on to with regard to a safe and secure society thing.

I'm not so sure. There's a correlation, but there are plenty of poor people who aren't criminals, and plenty of spoiled rich brats who are. I think it's more a matter of culture and socialization.

Paying the poor danegeld doesn't seem to have really made a dent in the crime rate.

331 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:20:01pm
332 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:20:24pm

re: #317 Charles

No -- during some of the major stories LGF broke, we had over 300,000 page views in a single day. But it's very high for an ordinary news day.

That must mean it is boring everywhere else in the universe. Be smart now Lizards, the eyes are upon you!

333 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:20:26pm

re: #309 Charles

Excuse me, I guess I forgot my mandatory disclaimer: I'm not talking about all anti-choice people when I say "they only care about children when they're in the womb."

But I am talking about a LOT of them.

I'd say for certain sure you're talking about all those who bomb clinics and murder doctors - and all those who fantasize about doing such things.

334 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:20:40pm

re: #325 SpaceJesus

open up registration?

running out of crazies for target practice.

They all ran off to the Milošević worship site.

335 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:21:18pm

re: #83 Charles

It's a teenager who was home-schooled by fanatics. That's the only kind of political rhetoric he knows.

But some teenagers do outgrow it. Reposting from thread below:

Hmmm, my 20-year high school reunion is this Saturday, and I've been going through kind of a long and weird process this summer of reestablishing friendships with my two best friends from high school. I broke off contact with them rather abruptly after college, because I'd come out about how I felt about guys during my fourth year at UVa, and they were super-ultra born-again Christians and just incredibly clueless about homosexuality. Not mean or anything -- just clueless, and I had to get away from them for a while. Then "a while" turned into a dozen years of no contact, which I rationalized as normal because I was a military brat and was accustomed to losing touch with friends every 2-4 years.

ANYWAY, I'm overjoyed to be back in regular communication with them via Facebook, but the vaccination issue is one of those topics I've been dancing around, because one of my friends happens to have an autistic son, and I'm a little scared of the possibility that my friend might turn out to be anti-vaccine kooks. Of course I know that it's silly of me to worry about THIS issue, given that I was entirely willing to put up with their belief in the pre-Tribulation ~*RAPTURE*~™ and Young Earth Creationism back in the day (They're over that now. At least the Rapture part...), so it's not like I would stop loving them if they did turn out to be anti-vaccine nutters.

But still, it would be such a relief to find out that this is ONE wart I don't have to deal with!

336 esch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:21:27pm

re: #321 Locker

I respectfully disagree. Promote the general welfare...

I do as well.

You'll note it says Promote not Enforce.

The distortion of the General Welfare clause into the present monstrosity is a significant factor in our largest issues today. And the logical end of that is enslaving everyone to the state.

337 Desert Dog  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:21:34pm

re: #314 Locker

You can't know, obviously, how much I respect this perspective. I do care about their children but I care about mine as well. Crime and violence have their roots in poverty. One thing I always thought conservatives should grab on to with regard to a safe and secure society thing.

And, the best way out of poverty is to give the father, assuming he's around, a job. NOT giving them welfare and keeping the father away because they would lose benefits. Conservatives want everyone to succeed by their own actions. Keeping generation after generation on the government teet may make some on the left feel good about themselves because they are doing "something" about poverty. The best way to help a poor person is to make them "unpoor", not keep them addicted to freebies and other feel good programs that do more to keep the voters happy than actually solve a problem.

Personal responsibility, a novel idea who's time has come.

338 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:21:49pm

YOU FUCKSTERS ALL HATE THE ALLMAN BROTHERS.

339 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:21:49pm

re: #333 Salamantis

I'd say for certain sure you're talking about all those who bomb clinics and murder doctors - and all those who fantasize about doing such things.

Yes -- the kind of people who applaud murder. And there are a LOT of those. After the Dr. Tiller murder, I saw how many of them are out there.

They are legion.

340 avanti  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:21:55pm

re: #264 DrNaughty

Democrats have been doing that for years

Yep, but they never had as many crazy cheerleaders as the right has today.

341 spiderx  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:22:06pm

in 2005 when there were Hitler imagery at war protests against Bush Sean Hannity over and over and over asked every left wing guest of his to denounce the radicalism.

2009 with hitler imagery at anti-Obama protests . Sean Hannity describes the crowd as Patriots without a mention of the crazyness.

342 MightySkip  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:22:12pm

I have to ask the question of which of you were actually there? I was and certainly saw some of the craziness but I saw a lot more just normal, rational people with legitimate grievances. Now, you may argue that last point, but they considered them legitimate and had formulated their own opinions based on facts from various sources and not spoon fed by anyone. Why disregard everyone then?

In all honestly I would be curious to know what makes going there so wrong? Sure, writing letters, supporting political candidates with donations and time from your home is fine but where is the error in organizing in force and displaying your displeasure so the politicians understand you are serious? You hear about this event, have similar stances based on what the organizers are supporting (I went through the 912 organizers website for this event and I did not see anything listed anywhere saying something to the effect of, ‘Hate black people? Like threatening violence? Come on down!’ Maybe I missed it), want to show your support and also meet other people whose opinions are similar.

When you see something like this at the rally, what is the appropriate response? Run away? Ignoring the tens of thousands others who aren’t calling Obama Hitler? Cave in to the demands of those holding the signs and eliminate completely the rational protesters? Go over and beat them with a baseball bat? Isn’t that violence? Help me out here. I am genuinely curious to know what is considered an acceptable form or action of protest to the Lizard community.

343 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:22:27pm

re: #328 Dar ul Harbarian

That would piss me off.

344 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:22:29pm

re: #338 MandyManners

YOU FUCKSTERS ALL HATE THE ALLMAN BROTHERS.

Wha? I updinged that and I'm listening to it.

345 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:22:38pm

re: #310 McSpiff


So dont go to tea parties because you support tax reform, or dislike health care proposals, because you'll be supporting groups that have finance reform proposals that include stuff like "send the usurper back to kenya hurrr". Support real groups pushing for real reform. Dont give these assholes who crawl out of holes like Free Republic any appearance of numbers. If you associate with racists and wanna-be revolutionaries, im gonna damn well assume you are one.

/rant done.

The "Tea Parties" .. just as the "Town Hall Meetings" are ways for the silent majority to blow off their frustration with the obama ajenda. Clearly, a small percentage of nuts are going to grab a lot of attention, especially from a media which has long since abandoned any pretense of being "fair" Just as the leftist nuts were thowing feces at New York Cops during the 2004 Democratic Convention, and all of the" Bu$h=Hitler" signs we saw routinely at gatherings of leftists during the Bush Administration, the current crop of anti obama rallies are going to draw a certain percentage of nuts from the extreme right.

Clearly, what the effect is to those elected to Congress, as well as the opinion polls, which appear to be all saying the same thing, is that the American center.. which wins and loses elections for politicians, are abandoning the support for obama which they gave him last fall.

346 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:23:05pm

re: #324 Salamantis

They're already playing the Marion Barry "That bitch set me up!" card. But no one foced the crack pipe between the Mayor's lips, and no one forced the ACORN people in all these offices to offer suggestions on how to get away with housing underaged illegal immigrant brothels.

They can play that card but it won't work as well. What those ACORN people in Baltimore and DC (but not in New York, where the given story was different) was a story that, if true, would have been orders-of magnitude worse than what Berry did. Moreover, this story doesn't just rely on one tape; much of the damage will come from the fact that the tapes keep appearing thus making ACORN look worse and worse.

347 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:23:07pm

re: #335 Throbert McGee

I updinged you just because I think you're a good guy.

348 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:23:27pm

re: #321 Locker

I respectfully disagree. Promote the general welfare...

I'd need some help on the exact reference, but I recall hearing that the Supreme Court has actually ruled on this, and "The General Welfare" does not equate to "The Individual Welfare."

349 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:23:31pm

re: #342 MightySkip

I won't have anything to with these tea parties. They're a disgrace.

You say you saw crazies there. What did you do about it?

350 esch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:23:31pm

re: #323 SanFranciscoZionist

We've had all those monstrous social welfare programs for generations now and they're all out of control and verging on bankruptcy. And we still have significant problems with poverty. They've failed. Time to try something else.

351 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:23:32pm

re: #338 MandyManners

YOU FUCKSTERS ALL HATE THE ALLMAN BROTHERS.

Bastards, all of 'em...

352 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:23:48pm

re: #312 Chekote

Because they would be the first to complain about having to pay welfare to support the kids. There are so many born children around the world dying of hunger. Suffering. Why not take care of them first? Or at least have the same concern about them as for the unborn? Maybe I am wrong. But my impression is that all the focus is stopping abortion. Once born, it is like so long buddy.

Let me apologize if I offended anybody. It just IMHO. I might be totally wrong and don't want to get into any fights.

At first, the fetus is just a mass of undifferentiated cells. At some point, it begins to take on human form. At some point, the soul ties into the form.

There are those who would argue that the idea of a soul is just an intellectual construct.

Is there a price to be paid for stopping the growth of a mass of undifferentiated cells? Probably not.
How about aborting the product of a rape- which truly was an intervention into the control of a woman's body? Probably not.
How about ending the life of a fetus after it is viable and the soul is ready to be birthed? Watch out.
Karma is what it is.

353 fat bastard vegetarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:23:48pm

re: #338 MandyManners

I watched "Stormy Monday Blues" and "Sweet Melissa" not four hours ago.

354 gantww  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:23:59pm

re: #320 Sharmuta

I don't think they care about the child in utero either- they care about controlling women. The unborn are a tool for them to use.

In my hometown, there was as much stigma towards buying birth control as there was towards having an abortion. The real issue was about controlling sexuality. And it's pretty easy to understand why. Like any other species thus evolved, sex is a tremendously strong drive for us. Thus, if you can make people feel guilty for their sexual feelings, it's rather easy to lead them around by the nose in other areas.

That is also, by the way, why you don't see more abortion docs getting whacked. The fact is that most of the anti-abortion crowd doesn't believe that abortion is murder. Do you think they would be so gentle towards a group of people who were actively known to be killing infants just outside of the womb instead of in it? It's all about control.

355 Jack Burton  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:24:05pm

re: #321 Locker

I respectfully disagree. Promote the general welfare...

Which can be spun to justify just about anything, regardless of party affiliation of those doing the spinning.

356 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:24:32pm

re: #333 Salamantis

I'd say for certain sure you're talking about all those who bomb clinics and murder doctors - and all those who fantasize about doing such things.

I'd include those who picket Planned Parenthood and abortion clinics.

Those folks are also saying no to welfare, no to contraception, no to healthcare, no to better education for the poor and yes to abstinence only. And yes, I do believe the majority are men.

357 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:24:49pm

re: #302 Charles

Side note: we're going to rack up well over 150,000 page views today.

How high a spike is that, relative to the norm?

358 Dar ul Harbarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:24:49pm

re: #338 MandyManners

YOU FUCKSTERS ALL HATE THE ALLMAN BROTHERS.

That is the most rightous use of cap lock I have seen in a long time.

359 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:25:23pm

re: #350 esch

We've had all those monstrous social welfare programs for generations now and they're all out of control and verging on bankruptcy. And we still have significant problems with poverty. They've failed. Time to try something else.

OK, make a proposal.

360 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:25:33pm

re: #342 MightySkip

Now, you may argue that last point, but they considered them legitimate and had formulated their own opinions based on facts from various sources and not spoon fed by anyone. Why disregard everyone then?

Sure they weren't spoon fed. By Glenn Beck or WND or anyone! [eye roll]

361 esch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:25:51pm

re: #338 MandyManners

YOU FUCKSTERS ALL HATE THE ALLMAN BROTHERS.

Now that's how you 'bust a cap'.

362 Chekote  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:26:09pm

re: #326 cliffster

Obviously, I don't mean to say that all pro-lifers don't care about kids once they are born. I meant people like Randall Terry. That kind of obsessive behavior is not about concern for children. Father Pavone too. There is something creepy and morbose about them.

363 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:26:16pm

re: #342 MightySkip

In all honestly I would be curious to know what makes going there so wrong?


It's a movement of poorly informed idiots. They are not evil but they are stupid from the head to the toes. There's nothing good to be found here.

364 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:26:33pm

re: #357 Throbert McGee

How high a spike is that, relative to the norm?

Two months ago, on July 14th, we had 70,680 page views.

365 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:27:01pm

re: #321 Locker

I respectfully disagree. Promote the general welfare...

How does taking money from someone at the point of a gun and giving it to someone else promote the general welfare?

366 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:27:05pm

re: #330 Mauser

I'm not so sure. There's a correlation, but there are plenty of poor people who aren't criminals, and plenty of spoiled rich brats who are. I think it's more a matter of culture and socialization.

Paying the poor danegeld doesn't seem to have really made a dent in the crime rate.

I think if you actually consider the types of crimes the above two selections commit it would clear right up. Additionally I'm not claiming any solution in place or being discussed is perfect.

I'm advocating that we try. That we, as humans, accept the fact that we are capable of feeding, clothing, housing, educating and caring for every single person on this earth with the currently available resources.

We consider and embrace the possibility that healthy and secure people will contribute more towards our advancement as a people than they could otherwise.

Yes, I'm a liberal.

/em climbs down out of his tree.

367 Enkidu90046  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:27:11pm

re: #339 Charles

Yes -- the kind of people who applaud murder. And there are a LOT of those. After the Dr. Tiller murder, I saw how many of them are out there.

They are legion.

It may be a disturbingly high minority of the pro-life movement, but I do not believe it is a majority. And I say this as a person who is strongly pro-choice, but who has come to understand the position of the pro-life movement.

368 funky chicken  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:27:31pm

re: #242 marjoriemoon

What I don't understand is that those that have been here for years, particularly prior to 2004, have this misconception that Charles is a conservative just because he had some conservative views. But he certainly had lots of other views the conservatives didn't share. Terri Schiavo comes to mind among others.

So if you believe in one thing, you have to believe in the rest? There were always diverse posters here, even if in the minority.

I still don't understand how it could be "conservative" to want to allow the government to overrule personal medical decisions ... sigh. Isn't that what so many of the protestors are afraid of? I'd rather be offered a trip to Dignitas than be forced to be kept "alive" for decades on invasive machines after brain death. And one of my close friends had a late 2nd trimester abortion after a high-res ultrasound discovered horrific birth defects in her much anticipated/loved baby. These Randall Terry types would have forced more sorrow and suffering on my friend and their family. It was sad enough as it was.

369 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:27:35pm

re: #342 MightySkip

I have to ask the question of which of you were actually there? I was and certainly saw some of the craziness but I saw a lot more just normal, rational people with legitimate grievances. Now, you may argue that last point, but they considered them legitimate and had formulated their own opinions based on facts from various sources and not spoon fed by anyone. Why disregard everyone then?

In all honestly I would be curious to know what makes going there so wrong? Sure, writing letters, supporting political candidates with donations and time from your home is fine but where is the error in organizing in force and displaying your displeasure so the politicians understand you are serious? You hear about this event, have similar stances based on what the organizers are supporting (I went through the 912 organizers website for this event and I did not see anything listed anywhere saying something to the effect of, ‘Hate black people? Like threatening violence? Come on down!’ Maybe I missed it), want to show your support and also meet other people whose opinions are similar.

When you see something like this at the rally, what is the appropriate response? Run away? Ignoring the tens of thousands others who aren’t calling Obama Hitler? Cave in to the demands of those holding the signs and eliminate completely the rational protesters? Go over and beat them with a baseball bat? Isn’t that violence? Help me out here. I am genuinely curious to know what is considered an acceptable form or action of protest to the Lizard community.

Bless your heart.

370 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:27:39pm

re: #362 Chekote

Obviously, I don't mean to say that all pro-lifers don't care about kids once they are born. I meant people like Randall Terry. That kind of obsessive behavior is not about concern for children. Father Pavone too. There is something creepy and morbose about them.

Agreed. Once again, the squeakiest wheel gets the microphone.

371 fat bastard vegetarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:27:45pm

re: #364 Charles

Two months ago, on July 14th, we had 70,680 page views.

The day that nothing happened.

Ahhh, I remember it well...

372 eastsider  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:27:47pm

re: #365 Van Helsing

How does taking money from someone at the point of a gun and giving it to someone else promote the general welfare?

who's pointing guns?

373 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:28:50pm

re: #336 esch

I do as well.

You'll note it says Promote not Enforce.

The distortion of the General Welfare clause into the present monstrosity is a significant factor in our largest issues today. And the logical end of that is enslaving everyone to the state.

None of this sounds logical at all. It sounds like rhetoric. I'm out.

374 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:29:08pm

re: #358 Dar ul Harbarian

That is the most rightous use of cap lock I have seen in a long time.

375 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:29:10pm

re: #359 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, make a proposal.

Offer those on AFDC and who recieve section eight housing vouchers Pell grants and work study jobs at colleges and universites.

Clearly they lack the proper job skills in order to be a productive member of society. Our community colleges and technical schools offer many classes and career counseling for those who don't know what to do in life

376 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:29:10pm

re: #352 Capitalist Tool

I don't like you tone in the last part of your post. It sounds far too close to making excuse for the Operation: Rescue nutjobs.

377 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:29:13pm

re: #347 Sharmuta

I updinged you just because I think you're a good guy.

And I updinged *you* for your discernment! (Not everyone is willing to overlook my occasional compulsion to talk about how super-nifty penises are, and other little quirks of mine.)

378 Jack Burton  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:29:22pm

re: #372 eastsider

who's pointing guns?

Try not paying taxes. See how long it takes for agents with guns to come have a discussion with you.

379 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:29:54pm

re: #361 esch

Now that's how you 'bust a cap'.

Bust this.

380 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:29:55pm

re: #361 esch

Now that's how you 'bust a cap'.

*applauding*

381 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:30:14pm

re: #318 The Shadow Do

I'd make Adrian Peterson play for every team in every game. Awesome!

/but please, no kissing in hockey...

Sorry..I would have to cave to the left wing of the sports party and make them kiss and make up after every fight...It's how the left wing rolls..
Don't worry..There is a better chance to separate the Olsen twins from Cigarettes than Hockey from fighting..

382 esch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:30:15pm

re: #359 SanFranciscoZionist

Fair enough.

The welfare reforms signed by Clinton got lots of people off welfare rolls and onto work rolls. We need to extend that idea of dependence->work to other programs. They appear to be doing the opposite.

383 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:30:21pm

re: #321 Locker

Promote the general welfare...

By "hook" or by crook if you're a Democrat.

/*snicker*, because it's true

384 Dar ul Harbarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:30:22pm

re: #372 eastsider

who's pointing guns?

Quit paying your taxes and you will find out.

385 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:30:38pm

For those who missed it earlier...
The Unauthorized 9.12 Teabagger Tour


Much insanity to be had.
386 McSpiff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:30:50pm

re: #345 DrNaughty

The "Tea Parties" .. just as the "Town Hall Meetings" are ways for the silent majority to blow off their frustration with the obama ajenda. Clearly, a small percentage of nuts are going to grab a lot of attention, especially from a media which has long since abandoned any pretense of being "fair" Just as the leftist nuts were thowing feces at New York Cops during the 2004 Democratic Convention, and all of the" Bu$h=Hitler" signs we saw routinely at gatherings of leftists during the Bush Administration, the current crop of anti obama rallies are going to draw a certain percentage of nuts from the extreme right.

Clearly, what the effect is to those elected to Congress, as well as the opinion polls, which appear to be all saying the same thing, is that the American center.. which wins and loses elections for politicians, are abandoning the support for obama which they gave him last fall.


Presidents lose support after elections. Maybe if you could show me that bushes and obama support at the same time (pre-9/11) was largely different id believe you. Otherwise, its normal trends, not a lack of support for policy. Ill tell you one thing for sure, the Center does not support nut bars with ak-47. The "silent majority" already spoke. They gave the Dems the house, the white house, and the senate. The GOP needs to win them back, not the dems.

And honestly, if you think the media is spinning this, well, I trust charles. Im basing my opinions off what hes shown. It does not look isolated and is largely in line with what CNN showed, if not worse.

387 eastsider  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:31:06pm

re: #378 ArchangelMichael

Try not paying taxes. See how long it takes for agents with guns to come have a discussion with you.

Fair enough, but taxes aren't exactly a new, and I'm pretty sure people have been disagreeing to some extent with how their tax dollars have been spent since the invention of taxes.

388 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:31:12pm

re: #368 funky chicken

I still don't understand how it could be "conservative" to want to allow the government to overrule personal medical decisions ... sigh. Isn't that what so many of the protestors are afraid of? I'd rather be offered a trip to Dignitas than be forced to be kept "alive" for decades on invasive machines after brain death. And one of my close friends had a late 2nd trimester abortion after a high-res ultrasound discovered horrific birth defects in her much anticipated/loved baby. These Randall Terry types would have forced more sorrow and suffering on my friend and their family. It was sad enough as it was.

I can't tell how you meant that highlighted part, but those who believe that are simply not paying attention. No one is going to overrule anything, but you can tell them that till you're blue in the face and no one listens. They have an agenda and they're stickin to it.

389 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:31:18pm

re: #365 Van Helsing

How does taking money from someone at the point of a gun and giving it to someone else promote the general welfare?

Unfortunately that is how government is funded.

It is what government does with that money is the problem. We've had an expansive Federal Government ever since the Civil War, which, in essence was the main reason for the Southern States to go into rebellion in 1861 in the first place.

390 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:31:32pm

Yesterday we had someone making excuses for the tea parties, who was talking about how many wonderful sane people were there, and then he threw in the teensy little fact that at least a QUARTER of the signs were extremist Hitler-Stalin-Satan-Death Camp signs.

Hey, only a quarter of them! Is that so wrong?

391 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:31:40pm

re: #364 Charles

Two months ago, on July 14th, we had 70,680 page views.

Yeah, but that was game day- The Major League All- Star Game! Who could blog through that?

392 fat bastard vegetarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:31:55pm

re: #377 Throbert McGee

Tammy Bruce calls her sexuality her "quirk".

393 MandyManners  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:32:12pm

re: #366 Locker

I think if you actually consider the types of crimes the above two selections commit it would clear right up. Additionally I'm not claiming any solution in place or being discussed is perfect.

I'm advocating that we try. That we, as humans, accept the fact that we are capable of feeding, clothing, housing, educating and caring for every single person on this earth with the currently available resources.

We consider and embrace the possibility that healthy and secure people will contribute more towards our advancement as a people than they could otherwise.

Yes, I'm a liberal.

/em climbs down out of his tree.


PORT HURON.

394 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:32:18pm

re: #372 eastsider

who's pointing guns?

Try not paying your taxes and see who eventually shows up at your door.

395 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:32:25pm

re: #365 Van Helsing

How does taking money from someone at the point of a gun and giving it to someone else promote the general welfare?

Wait, now someone's robbing banks? I'm so confused.

396 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:32:30pm

re: #354 gantww

In my hometown, there was as much stigma towards buying birth control as there was towards having an abortion. The real issue was about controlling sexuality. And it's pretty easy to understand why. Like any other species thus evolved, sex is a tremendously strong drive for us. Thus, if you can make people feel guilty for their sexual feelings, it's rather easy to lead them around by the nose in other areas.

That is also, by the way, why you don't see more abortion docs getting whacked. The fact is that most of the anti-abortion crowd doesn't believe that abortion is murder. Do you think they would be so gentle towards a group of people who were actively known to be killing infants just outside of the womb instead of in it? It's all about control.

And when their own daughters gets inconveniently pregnant, they're the first ones sneaking her in the back door of the clinic. Hypocrisy is rampant with them when the political becomes personal.

I have served as a clinic escort, and seen it happen.

397 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:32:32pm

re: #372 eastsider

who's pointing guns?

Say no to the IRS,

then say No to the officers who try to take you to court,

then say no to the officers who try to haul you off to jail.

The guns will come out. You may even get shot if you resist.

You can't say no when the Government wants something and not have it come to that after a while. That's why people who love freedom do their best to minimize the Government's demands.

(This is why the best way to do this is at the Ballot Box. Giant puppets have very little influence on them once they're in office).

398 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:32:36pm

re: #354 gantww

In my hometown, there was as much stigma towards buying birth control as there was towards having an abortion. The real issue was about controlling sexuality. And it's pretty easy to understand why. Like any other species thus evolved, sex is a tremendously strong drive for us. Thus, if you can make people feel guilty for their sexual feelings, it's rather easy to lead them around by the nose in other areas.

That is also, by the way, why you don't see more abortion docs getting whacked. The fact is that most of the anti-abortion crowd doesn't believe that abortion is murder. Do you think they would be so gentle towards a group of people who were actively known to be killing infants just outside of the womb instead of in it? It's all about control.

I agree. If these people cared about the children so much, they'd focus on stopping child abuse, child neglect and would welcome birth control (and Planned Parenthood) because they would know that a wanted child is less likely to be abused and neglected. They also support welfare to make sure poor children were provided their basics. They want to control women.

Now- I am personally pro-life. But I have friends who have had abortions, and the last thing I want is these ladies in a back alley. They are so misogynistic, these protesters, that they don't care if women die because of their sexual activities. That's the whole point. It's akin to stoning a woman for sex outside marriage. Since stoning women is barbaric, they'll accept death by back alley surgery. Pretty hateful.

399 McSpiff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:32:37pm

re: #389 DrNaughty

Unfortunately that is how government is funded.

It is what government does with that money is the problem. We've had an expansive Federal Government ever since the Civil War, which, in essence was the main reason for the Southern States to go into rebellion in 1861 in the first place.

Nothing to do with slaves at all...right?

400 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:32:44pm

re: #372 eastsider

who's pointing guns?

I dunno, don't pay your taxes and keep up with that line and dollar 'gainst yer donut that men with guns will show up at your house...

401 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:32:45pm

Seriously, is Democrat Party adjunct ACORN the best we can do to provide social services in this country?

/time to pull the plug and start over

402 eastsider  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:32:48pm

re: #391 Capitalist Tool

which clearly would have drawn more attention than NFL week 1 plus US Open Final.

/

403 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:32:50pm

re: #253 MandyManners

Maybe someone already had made this point.

I usually don't talk about what I have to bring to bear. Well, I might chat a bit but, I DON'T MAKE A FUCKING POSTER ABOUT IT.

To me, it's the same thing as a man who brags about the size of his penis.

Worse then that, Mandy. Loose lips sink ships, as they say. Speaking openly about any ordinance in your possession only tempts people to rob your home (when your not there, of course) and take your weapons for nefarious purposes.

Even when speaking amongst friends, someone could overhear and make a point of finding out where you live.

My friends, even my closest, most trusted friends, know nothing of what I may or may not own in that regard.

404 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:32:57pm

re: #394 Van Helsing

Try not paying your taxes and see who eventually shows up at your door.

With our taxes, as Oliver Wendell Holmes pointed out, we buy civilization.

405 gantww  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:33:20pm

re: #330 Mauser

I'm not so sure. There's a correlation, but there are plenty of poor people who aren't criminals, and plenty of spoiled rich brats who are. I think it's more a matter of culture and socialization.

Paying the poor danegeld doesn't seem to have really made a dent in the crime rate.

I know that once you pay the Danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane, but I think welfare payments are probably cheaper than living in a failed state (which would happen if we kicked everybody off welfare). I'm pretty libertarian in my ideals, but I see no practical way to get there from here.

406 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:33:26pm

re: #337 Desert Dog

And, the best way out of poverty is to give the father, assuming he's around, a job. NOT giving them welfare and keeping the father away because they would lose benefits. Conservatives want everyone to succeed by their own actions. Keeping generation after generation on the government teet may make some on the left feel good about themselves because they are doing "something" about poverty. The best way to help a poor person is to make them "unpoor", not keep them addicted to freebies and other feel good programs that do more to keep the voters happy than actually solve a problem.

Personal responsibility, a novel idea who's time has come.

One thing Conservatives fail to acknowledge is this... everyone isn't like "you". Some folks aren't capable of doing what you can do or what conservatives expect them to do. Some folks may have been capable but had it beat out of them by circumstance. Everyone is different and you can't try to force everyone into the same little package.

I am not advocating to keep things as they are and I respect your references to incentive etc. Personally I think giving money to people is not a good thing for poverty relief. Give food, give housing, give education, give health care, give day care and yes, yes, yes give employment help.

So lets talk about what does work and what we can improve.

407 esch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:33:40pm

re: #379 MandyManners

Eh, well yes it is busted. Frickin youtube.

But I did mean it as a compliment.

408 Chekote  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:33:41pm

re: #349 Charles

I am torn over this Tea Party thing. On one hand you have people who are genuinely concerned about the spending and the unsustainable fiscal path we are on. On the other, you have loonies that are automatically attracted to any demonstration like moths to light. Personally, I would like for a movement to form in this country to start pressuring politicians to stop spending and restore our fiscal health that keeps away the loonies. I just don't know how it can be brought about. If you were the organizer, how would you keep the fringe element out?

409 fat bastard vegetarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:34:05pm

re: #393 MandyManners

PORT HURON.

Saw a hockey game there once.

Got HAMMERED at the Port Huron Sports Club.

410 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:34:24pm

re: #389 DrNaughty

which, in essence was the main reason for the Southern States to go into rebellion in 1861 in the first place.


uh no

411 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:34:33pm

re: #389 DrNaughty

Unfortunately that is how government is funded.

It is what government does with that money is the problem. We've had an expansive Federal Government ever since the Civil War, which, in essence was the main reason for the Southern States to go into rebellion in 1861 in the first place.

Excuse me? You didn't really just say that, did you?

412 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:34:37pm

re: #399 McSpiff

Nothing to do with slaves at all...right?

Lincon was not about to push for anti-slavery legislation in Congress in 1861 The south went into rebellion largely due to a perceived encroachment by the Federal Government on the 10th Amendment.

413 Danny  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:34:42pm

re: #407 esch

Eh, well yes it is busted. Frickin youtube.

I think they are doing site maintenance right now.

414 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:34:52pm

Uh oh.

415 avanti  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:35:01pm

re: #332 Naso Tang

That must mean it is boring everywhere else in the universe. Be smart now Lizards, the eyes are upon you!

BTW, popped in on the stalker site just now, and and quit after waiting for the page to load in the background for five minutes. The new server they are on must be on a Commodore 64.

416 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:35:03pm

re: #404 SanFranciscoZionist

With our taxes, as Oliver Wendell Holmes pointed out, we buy civilization.

Not every one of them mind you, but enough Libs I've known have said exactly the same thing- "oh, but my taxes do a lot of good."

417 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:35:05pm

Robert Stacy McCain? Is that you?

418 McSpiff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:35:13pm

re: #408 Chekote

I am torn over this Tea Party thing. On one hand you have people who are genuinely concerned about the spending and the unsustainable fiscal path we are on. On the other, you have loonies that are automatically attracted to any demonstration like moths to light. Personally, I would like for a movement to form in this country to start pressuring politicians to stop spending and restore our fiscal health that keeps away the loonies. I just don't know how it can be brought about. If you were the organizer, how would you keep the fringe element out?

These things were started by glenn beck with his 912 project as far as I can tell. The fringe didnt show up, they were the host!

419 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:35:30pm

re: #377 Throbert McGee

And I updinged *you* for your discernment! (Not everyone is willing to overlook my occasional compulsion to talk about how super-nifty penises are, and other little quirks of mine.)

Little quirks and a fondness for penises are things we have in common, Dear. What's not to like about you from my perspective?

420 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:35:32pm

re: #348 Mauser

I'd need some help on the exact reference, but I recall hearing that the Supreme Court has actually ruled on this, and "The General Welfare" does not equate to "The Individual Welfare."

I don't understand what you mean. That sounds to me like an insurance policy that covers my house but not the nails holding it together. The individuals ARE the general.

421 gantww  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:35:39pm

re: #396 Salamantis

And when their own daughters gets inconveniently pregnant, they're the first ones sneaking her in the back door of the clinic. Hypocrisy is rampant with them when the political becomes personal.

I have served as a clinic escort, and seen it happen.

Or they force a marriage, which ends in divorce or abuse a few years later. And then they condemn divorce (even if it results from abuse). Basically, if you have sex outside of marriage, they want it to haunt you to your grave.

I'm not real sure how the more moderate pro-lifer's are on this though. These were Church of Christ and Baptist people, so...

422 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:35:54pm

re: #389 DrNaughty

The southern states loved an interventional federal govt...when they were the ones running it...(fugitive slave act for instance)...once they weren't...not so much.

423 sngnsgt  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:35:57pm

re: #249 The Shadow Do

I'm very cool with you. I was a 'yute in N. Indiana and played the frozen ponds and even went on to play Jr Hockey (Ft Wayne Jr Comets!). I sort of quit the game when I came home from the local pond game with a gashed leg requireing stitches ankle to knee, and my best bud lost all his front teeth ( we had a rule, no pucks off the ice - yeah sure...)

Hockey is a great game! Now in Dallas, I am stuck with a declining Stars team.

Yee-ouch!!! Part of the fun of the game I guess, I'm more of a watcher than a player. My old man got me into it years ago and we still catch whatever local team games we can and any pre-season games that show up here in Vegas. When Gretsky was in LA, I was a big Kings fan, they haven't been much to talk about lately. I just moved back to Vegas after spending 5 years in NW PA, I'm a Penguins fan too. I think that Crosby kid is going places . ;-)

424 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:35:57pm

re: #381 HoosierHoops

Sorry..I would have to cave to the left wing of the sports party and make them kiss and make up after every fight...It's how the left wing rolls..
Don't worry..There is a better chance to separate the Olsen twins from Cigarettes than Hockey from fighting..

Trying my best to picture Claude Lemieux kissing Chris Draper's missing face...

425 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:36:04pm

re: #411 Charles

Excuse me? You didn't really just say that, did you?

son of the confederacy spotted

426 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:36:14pm

re: #382 esch

Fair enough.

The welfare reforms signed by Clinton got lots of people off welfare rolls and onto work rolls. We need to extend that idea of dependence->work to other programs. They appear to be doing the opposite.

You know, this is reasonable kind of talk. What pisses me off is people who get into a self-righteous snit about the very idea of having to pay money for anyone else's benefit, apparently believing that they tarmac their own roads.

427 jaunte  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:36:32pm

Someone here never heard of "Bloody Kansas?"

428 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:36:34pm

re: #412 DrNaughty

Lincon was not about to push for anti-slavery legislation in Congress in 1861 The south went into rebellion largely due to a perceived encroachment by the Federal Government on the 10th Amendment.

Here you go again

429 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:36:38pm

re: #408 Chekote

If you were the organizer, how would you keep the fringe element out?

You can't. Once you start getting traction, the fringe steps in and hijacks it. So watch the protests, be glad for the people there against government spending and loss of liberty, and roll your eyes at the Hitler signs. I don't think you can keep the fringe out - they have nothing else to do.

430 funky chicken  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:36:50pm

re: #388 marjoriemoon

That's what the Terry Schiavo case was all about--the government stepping in to keep her "alive."

I'd argue that it would be more humane to offer an OD on morphine than to make somebody dehydrate to death, but that's not what the Schiavo foolishness was about.

431 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:37:02pm

re: #405 gantww

I know that once you pay the Danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane, but I think welfare payments are probably cheaper than living in a failed state (which would happen if we kicked everybody off welfare). I'm pretty libertarian in my ideals, but I see no practical way to get there from here.

The trick here is that if you really want to promote civilization, you can't just "Give a man a fish", your money is better spent teaching him to fish.

There's a problem when a safety net becomes a hammock.

432 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:37:08pm

We have another pre-flouncer going through the thread, by the way.

433 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:37:18pm

re: #418 McSpiff

These things were started by glenn beck with his 912 project as far as I can tell. The fringe didnt show up, they were the host!

And that's the problem right there. The kooks are in charge of this.

434 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:37:26pm

re: #425 SpaceJesus

son of the confederacy spotted

I grew up i Pennsylvania and am in the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War. Nice try...

435 JHW  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:37:38pm

re: #412 DrNaughty

Funny thing that "encroachment", it just exactly coincided with an election, the results of that weren't accepted. Bullets to overturn ballots.

436 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:37:48pm

re: #355 ArchangelMichael

Which can be spun to justify just about anything, regardless of party affiliation of those doing the spinning.

I'm not talking about a national holiday celebrating gummy bears I'm talking about helping the needy.

437 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:37:54pm

re: #392 fat bastard vegetarian

Tammy Bruce calls her sexuality her "quirk".

Care to elaborate?

438 McSpiff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:38:08pm

re: #435 JHW

Funny thing that "encroachment", it just exactly coincided with an election, the results of that weren't accepted. Bullets to overturn ballots.

The silent majority were losing their country tho!

439 Racer X  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:38:10pm

My flouncey-sense is tingling.

440 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:38:15pm

re: #412 DrNaughty

Lincon was not about to push for anti-slavery legislation in Congress in 1861 The south went into rebellion largely due to a perceived encroachment by the Federal Government on the 10th Amendment.

You are in error, sir. The South secceeded because they expected Lincoln to not allow the further expansion of slavery. In 1960, many southern Democrats were talking about conquering Cuba or several Mexican states expressly to add slave states to the Union. Lincoln stood entirely against that.

441 Noam Sayin'  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:38:45pm

re: #434 DrNaughty

You must be very old.

442 Jack Burton  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:38:49pm

re: #387 eastsider

Fair enough, but taxes aren't exactly a new, and I'm pretty sure people have been disagreeing to some extent with how their tax dollars have been spent since the invention of taxes.

THe point is that, welfare is funded by taxes, and taxes are paid under threat of arrest for not doing so. re: #404 SanFranciscoZionist

With our taxes, as Oliver Wendell Holmes pointed out, we buy civilization.

Civilization does not require borrowing hand over fist to pay for grossly inefficient, corrupt, and nearly bankrupt Federal programs that rarely solve whatever "problem" the were created to deal with.

443 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:38:56pm

re: #439 Racer X

My flouncey-sense is tingling.

Flouncedar

444 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:39:11pm

re: #430 funky chicken

That's what the Terry Schiavo case was all about--the government stepping in to keep her "alive."

I'd argue that it would be more humane to offer an OD on morphine than to make somebody dehydrate to death, but that's not what the Schiavo foolishness was about.

Right. But Charles took a lot of guff for his views.

The point, of course, is that it is a family/patient decision.

445 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:39:14pm

re: #434 DrNaughty

I grew up i Pennsylvania and am in the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War. Nice try...

sure, and I'm the fucking queen of Uzebekistan

446 McSpiff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:39:20pm

re: #440 Dark_Falcon

You are in error, sir. The South secceeded because they expected Lincoln to not allow the further expansion of slavery. In 1960, many southern Democrats were talking about conquering Cuba or several Mexican states expressly to add slave states to the Union. Lincoln stood entirely against that.

While some wanted to invade cuba during the 1960s, Im not sure slavery was the issue... ;-) I kid I kid!

447 Noam Sayin'  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:39:25pm

re: #441 Noam Sayin'

Scratch that. I read DrNaughty's post incorrectly.

448 Racer X  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:39:26pm

re: #437 The Shadow Do

Care to elaborate?

With links?

449 Dar ul Harbarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:39:38pm

re: #412 DrNaughty

Lincon was not about to push for anti-slavery legislation in Congress in 1861 The south went into rebellion largely due to a perceived encroachment by the Federal Government on the 10th Amendment.

Yes this was about the 10th Amendment. But they used the 10th Amendment as justification for slavery. It wasn't about the size of the federal debt.

450 funky chicken  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:39:42pm

re: #412 DrNaughty

Lincon was not about to push for anti-slavery legislation in Congress in 1861 The south went into rebellion largely due to a perceived encroachment by the Federal Government on the 10th Amendment.

Have you heard of the Missouri Compromise? Slavery was a huge issue for years before the Civil War broke out.

451 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:39:52pm

re: #439 Racer X

My flouncey-sense is tingling.

LOL!

452 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:39:55pm

re: #436 Locker

I'm not talking about a national holiday celebrating gummy bears I'm talking about helping the needy.

I do that with things called 'charity' and 'volunteering'.
Those would be voluntary ways of helping those in need.

453 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:39:57pm

re: #445 SpaceJesus

your majesty!(dramatic flourishing bow)

454 DrNaughty  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:40:01pm

re: #435 JHW

Funny thing that "encroachment", it just exactly coincided with an election, the results of that weren't accepted. Bullets to overturn ballots.

The point is that there was much more than slavery that was dividing the United States in 1860.

455 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:40:02pm

Prelude to a flounce...

456 Enkidu90046  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:40:14pm

re: #412 DrNaughty

Lincon was not about to push for anti-slavery legislation in Congress in 1861 The south went into rebellion largely due to a perceived encroachment by the Federal Government on the 10th Amendment.

What a load of revisionist crap.

457 Jack Burton  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:40:17pm

re: #442 ArchangelMichael

damn... got reply happy there.

458 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:40:19pm

re: #365 Van Helsing

How does taking money from someone at the point of a gun and giving it to someone else promote the general welfare?

You seem to have some kind of problem with Democracy. If you wish to start a tax revolt, be my guest.

459 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:40:21pm

re: #455 Charles

Prelude to a flounce...

In D minor

460 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:40:26pm

re: #342 MightySkip

I have to ask the question of which of you were actually there? I was and certainly saw some of the craziness but I saw a lot more just normal, rational people with legitimate grievances. Now, you may argue that last point, but they considered them legitimate and had formulated their own opinions based on facts from various sources and not spoon fed by anyone. Why disregard everyone then?

In all honestly I would be curious to know what makes going there so wrong? Sure, writing letters, supporting political candidates with donations and time from your home is fine but where is the error in organizing in force and displaying your displeasure so the politicians understand you are serious? You hear about this event, have similar stances based on what the organizers are supporting (I went through the 912 organizers website for this event and I did not see anything listed anywhere saying something to the effect of, ‘Hate black people? Like threatening violence? Come on down!’ Maybe I missed it), want to show your support and also meet other people whose opinions are similar.

When you see something like this at the rally, what is the appropriate response? Run away? Ignoring the tens of thousands others who aren’t calling Obama Hitler? Cave in to the demands of those holding the signs and eliminate completely the rational protesters? Go over and beat them with a baseball bat? Isn’t that violence? Help me out here. I am genuinely curious to know what is considered an acceptable form or action of protest to the Lizard community.

I haven't been there. I only see what I see here or on the news. I understand your point, but if I saw my argument diluted by kooks, in a demonstration, I would either have to leave or make an issue of it with them. I see none of that; nor, for that matter, have I hear the more eloquent "spokespersons" quoted on TV say anything more than than the most generalized complaints about "direction" that they don't like.

Unfortunately, there is no debate there. It is only us and them, whatever that means and the very best it can result in is stalemate with nothing accomplished, whereas the worst is much much worse.

461 gantww  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:40:30pm

re: #431 Mauser

The trick here is that if you really want to promote civilization, you can't just "Give a man a fish", your money is better spent teaching him to fish.

There's a problem when a safety net becomes a hammock.

I agree on that one. And high taxes aren't helping in that regard either, because higher taxes run a lot of lower paying jobs offshore.

462 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:40:59pm

re: #459 Gus 802

Get out! I was thinking in musical terms too! LOL

463 esch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:41:01pm

re: #426 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't have a problem investing in people. Especially young people who are learning responsibility and making mistakes.

I do have a problem with the gargantuan insanely wasteful bureaucracies filled with lazy unionized pensioned lifers that are impossible to optimize or eliminate, that spring up every time government tries to fix a 'social problem'.

If we could somehow radically reduce the bureaucracy and waste I'm sure many more conservatives would support reasonable state support programs.

464 Chekote  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:41:02pm

re: #418 McSpiff

I can't speak for the rest of the country. But no. The tea parties started organizing after the Santelli rant. I met one of the organizers here in Dallas. The first tea party he organized was in February. He got on some conference call of activists. When they asked whether anyone from the DFW area was on the call. He replied yes. He was the only one and so he got designed as the organizer for the area. Glenn Beck saw the crowd gathering and decided to jump in front and take credit.

465 Dar ul Harbarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:41:07pm

re: #445 SpaceJesus

sure, and I'm the fucking queen of Uzebekistan

No your not! I am the rightful queen of Uzebekistan.

466 Noam Sayin'  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:41:08pm

Okay, who had SpaceJesus as the fucking Queen of Uzbekistan?

467 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:41:35pm

re: #440 Dark_Falcon

You are in error, sir. The South secceeded because they expected Lincoln to not allow the further expansion of slavery. In 1860, many southern Democrats were talking about conquering Cuba or several Mexican states expressly to add slave states to the Union. Lincoln stood entirely against that.

PIMF

468 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:41:51pm

re: #412 DrNaughty

Lincon was not about to push for anti-slavery legislation in Congress in 1861 The south went into rebellion largely due to a perceived encroachment by the Federal Government on the 10th Amendment.

This is nothing but complete revisionist crap. Why are you trying to float this garbage at my website?

469 McSpiff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:42:03pm

re: #464 Chekote

I can't speak for the rest of the country. But no. The tea parties started organizing after the Santelli rant. I met one of the organizers here in Dallas. The first tea party he organized was in February. He got on some conference call of activists. When they asked whether anyone from the DFW area was on the call. He replied yes. He was the only one and so he got designed as the organizer for the area. Glenn Beck saw the crowd gathering and decided to jump in front and take credit.

Thats true for the 09/12 tea parties as well? Fair enough in that case

470 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:42:05pm

re: #452 Van Helsing

I do that with things called 'charity' and 'volunteering'.
Those would be voluntary ways of helping those in need.

It's weird, how people seem to think that the needy can only be helped by government programs. Government programs are terrible at helping the needy, but charitable people are very good at it. Unfortunately, charitable people do nothing for politicians aspiring for more power.

471 Racer X  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:42:16pm

This thread is a regular Globular Cluster of flounce!

472 jaunte  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:42:18pm

re: #466 Noam Sayin'

* tears up 'Rani of Azerbaijan' chits in disgust*

473 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:42:30pm

re: #383 Killian Bundy

By "hook" or by crook if you're a Democrat.

/*snicker*, because it's true

Democrat bad. Republican good. /em thumps club on ground.

474 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:42:36pm

HOOSIER? you here?

475 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:42:45pm

re: #412 DrNaughty

Lincon was not about to push for anti-slavery legislation in Congress in 1861 The south went into rebellion largely due to a perceived encroachment by the Federal Government on the 10th Amendment.

pretty amazing how the southern secession was oddly timed exactly with the election of Lincoln, whose party was anti-slavery and whose election was won on the issue of stopping the expansion of slavery.

secession had everything to do with slavery. read books, they are good.

476 esch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:42:58pm

got my popcorn

*crunch, crunch*

477 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:43:04pm

re: #408 Chekote

I am torn over this Tea Party thing. On one hand you have people who are genuinely concerned about the spending and the unsustainable fiscal path we are on. On the other, you have loonies that are automatically attracted to any demonstration like moths to light. Personally, I would like for a movement to form in this country to start pressuring politicians to stop spending and restore our fiscal health that keeps away the loonies. I just don't know how it can be brought about. If you were the organizer, how would you keep the fringe element out?

First, get really stellar and well-vetted speakers. Hold workshops, and give participants real information. You could see that those ladies who were upset about the czars were taking information on, even from the kid with the mike. I bet they'd appreciate more information, and the ability to express their concerns. Send guidelines for appropriate and positive signs out with the call to arrive. Try to create a more streamlined central message for each event. Encourage letter-writing, etc.

478 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:43:10pm

So ALL funding for ACORN is gone now? Or is the part they cut out only a small portion?

479 Coracle  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:43:10pm

re: #342 MightySkip

I have to ask the question of which of you were actually there? I was and certainly saw some of the craziness but I saw a lot more just normal, rational people with legitimate grievances. Now, you may argue that last point, but they considered them legitimate and had formulated their own opinions based on facts from various sources and not spoon fed by anyone. Why disregard everyone then?

I was there with my kids, going to museums. I explained the basics of the protest, and what it meant about freedom of speech, and the rights of expression. On the other hand, there were many signs and slogans I could not explain to them in such neutral terms.

480 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:43:12pm

re: #455 Charles

Prelude to a flounce...

It was the best of times..
It was the worst of times...
These are the days that try a man's souls..
***
No?
How about the Clash?
Should I stay or should I go now?
LOL

481 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:43:21pm

re: #423 sngnsgt

Yee-ouch!!! Part of the fun of the game I guess, I'm more of a watcher than a player. My old man got me into it years ago and we still catch whatever local team games we can and any pre-season games that show up here in Vegas. When Gretsky was in LA, I was a big Kings fan, they haven't been much to talk about lately. I just moved back to Vegas after spending 5 years in NW PA, I'm a Penguins fan too. I think that Crosby kid is going places . ;-)

Hockey = good stuff, pay no attention to that Hoosier guy...

482 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:43:22pm

re: #393 MandyManners

PORT HURON.

PORT NEWARK.

483 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:43:23pm

re: #450 funky chicken

Have you heard of the Missouri Compromise? Slavery was a huge issue for years before the Civil War broke out.

In fact, the Southern Baptist and Southern Methodist denominations were created when the southern wings of those churches schismed from the rest of them over whether slavery was Biblically justified.

484 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:43:43pm

I'm not waiting for any more of that crap to be posted.

I can't believe this. Apologists for slavery at LGF.

485 teleskiguy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:43:46pm

The level of ignorance of the people in this video is absolutely appalling!

486 Danny  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:43:58pm

re: #455 Charles

Prelude to a flounce...

One of my favorite Duke Ellingtroll songs.

487 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:44:03pm

re: #468 Charles

This is nothing but complete revisionist crap. Why are you trying to float this garbage at my website?

aw, don't ban pat buchanan just yet. can we have fun with him just a little longer?

488 ~Fianna  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:44:19pm

re: #167 funky chicken

Christine Todd Whitman

Of course she gets hounded by the RINO-purgers.

Gov. Huntsman of Utah (and now ambassador to China, I think?) is a possibility.

I'd vote for Huntsman. Hands down.

He's gonna have the Romney problem, though... (who, for the record, I would also have voted for.)

489 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:44:21pm

re: #475 SpaceJesus

southern land owners entire economic model was based on the idea of keeping slavery legal.

490 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:44:24pm

re: #474 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

HOOSIER? you here?

Yes sir!

491 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:44:26pm

re: #483 Salamantis

In fact, the Southern Baptist and Southern Methodist denominations were created when the southern wings of those churches schismed from the rest of them over whether slavery was Biblically justified.

That I did not know. Thank you, Sal.

492 gantww  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:44:27pm

re: #440 Dark_Falcon

You are in error, sir. The South secceeded because they expected Lincoln to not allow the further expansion of slavery. In 1960, many southern Democrats were talking about conquering Cuba or several Mexican states expressly to add slave states to the Union. Lincoln stood entirely against that.

But if the union was expanding and slave states weren't, wouldn't that have exposed them to eventually being able to be outvoted by the Yanks? Of course, they reacted stupidly and it got WAY out of hand, but in the early days I suppose it made sense to some of them.

(had relatives in the Confederacy. Still think slavery was a bad idea.)

493 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:44:32pm

re: #480 HoosierHoops

Did you see that reversal of the Touchdown catch by the Raiders?

I'm not a fan. But that was terrible!

494 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:44:52pm

re: #484 Charles

I'm not waiting for any more of that crap to be posted.

I can't believe this. Apologists for slavery at LGF.

You think with all of that "education" he would have known better.

//

495 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:45:07pm

re: #487 SpaceJesus

aw, don't ban pat buchanan just yet. can we have fun with him just a little longer?

Don't play with your food. You don't know where it's been.

Fire up the troll barbeque.

496 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:45:17pm

re: #416 Capitalist Tool

Not every one of them mind you, but enough Libs I've known have said exactly the same thing- "oh, but my taxes do a lot of good."

Whole lot of shit we need, best way to pay for it is for everyone to throw in the kitty. No way to have a country without taxes. All we're arguing about is how big the kitty should be, and what kinds of stuff we want to pay for as a group.

497 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:46:13pm

re: #495 Kosh's Shadow

Don't play with your food. You don't know where it's been.

Fire up the troll barbeque.

Already done. Roast Dr. Naughty will be ready in 20 minutes.

498 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:46:14pm

re: #489 Boondock St. Bender

southern land owners entire economic model was based on the idea of keeping slavery legal.

yep, and average southerners also were in favor of slavery and were vehemently anti-lincoln and anti-republican. just take a look at any southern news publication from the time.

499 EastSider  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:46:17pm

re: #442 ArchangelMichael

Civilization does not require borrowing hand over fist to pay for grossly inefficient, corrupt, and nearly bankrupt Federal programs that rarely solve whatever "problem" the were created to deal with.

I agree. But you're lumping a few issues together: enforced taxation, which is pretty necessary for a representative democracy, and really just about any government (we're going to need roads, police, fire protection, and an army).

The real issues you have are 1) how the money is spent and 2) how efficiently the money is spent.

Agree on 2)--the government could be a hell of a lot more efficient. If you find someone that thinks our gov't is operating flawlessly please let me know and I'll sell him half of the Brooklyn bridge.

As for 1): Sometimes your tax money goes to places you'd rather it didn't. It sucks, its a turd sandwich, but its the price we pay for living in a pretty damned good country. We've been given the power of the vote to try and correct that, and like it or not the people rightfully elected to power can do things that sometimes individual citizens will dislike.

500 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:46:24pm

re: #484 Charles

I'm not waiting for any more of that crap to be posted.

I can't believe this. Apologists for slavery at LGF.

Y'know, Charles, we seem to have a talent for bringing out the REAL crazies.

Thankfully, they run right into the Banhammer in short order.

501 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:46:33pm

re: #458 Locker

You seem to have some kind of problem with Democracy. If you wish to start a tax revolt, be my guest.

I have no problem at all with the Representative Republic we live in. I don't have any problem at all with paying my taxes.
I do have a problem with a federal government that has bloated way beyond their Constitutional charter and is intent on taking on even more responsibilities that it should not. They can't effectively manage the programs they have now.

502 Enkidu90046  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:46:58pm

re: #493 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Did you see that reversal of the Touchdown catch by the Raiders?

I'm not a fan. But that was terrible!

I am a proud Raider-hater... but that was a crap call.

503 Chekote  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:47:07pm

I got irritated with the local Tea Party because:

1. Too many Paulians for my taste
2. For the July Tea Party they decided to hold it at Southfork. They hired a professional event planner. Spent about $30K on fireworks. So they started to solicit corporate sponsorships to pay for the big party. To me this stuck the wrong chord. We are protesting wasteful spending and lack of fiscal discipline by blowing $30K of fireworks? So I dropped out. But I still think it is important that we put pressure on the politicians to stop spending like crazy.

504 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:47:11pm

re: #478 TheMatrix31

So ALL funding for ACORN is gone now? Or is the part they cut out only a small portion?

All of it will be gone if the House also passes the bill. But for that to happen, Speaker Pelosi (I shudder every time I type those two words together) has to allow it up for a vote.

We'll see if she blocks such a vote in spite of the massive political flak such a move would bring down on her.

505 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:47:18pm

re: #420 Locker

I don't understand what you mean. That sounds to me like an insurance policy that covers my house but not the nails holding it together. The individuals ARE the general.

So, what's the difference if I feed your family, or if I just feed you four meals? You mean stuffing your gullet doesn't feed your entire family?

The founders were very careful with their language, that's why the preamble says "Promote the general welfare" but "PROVIDE for the common defense."

You Promote the general welfare by providing an environment where everyone can prosper. To help an individual though, you need to take something from someone else, and in the end, redistribution really is a Zero sum game. Negative sum, actually, once you figure in the losses.

506 lostlakehiker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:47:30pm

In tepid defense of the guys who are talking about 'armed', they imagine that they will be defending themselves from government storm troopers. It's a dark fantasy, and their loose talk does untold damage to the social fabric, but they aren't explicitly threatening to initiate violence so as to have their way.

Whenever somebody needs to be reproached, shamed, or castigated, it's best to be very accurate in describing the behavior that is at fault and what changes you want. This tepid defense is offered in that spirit. I want them to cork it when it comes to civil disobedience without the civil. In a nation that had no functioning conscience, such talk would be crushed and any effort in that vein would have to be covert and would probably be discovered and then brutally crushed. In ours, the talk is let ride as the talk of deranged persons who do not know what they say. But every word of such nonsense undercuts public regard for the main complaint: that we are unwise to permit an already big government the steroid shots that control of banking, autos, and health care would provide.

507 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:47:42pm

re: #436 Locker

I'm not talking about a national holiday celebrating gummy bears I'm talking about helping the needy.

Not that I'm opposed to gummy bears, and I assume you aren't either.
/

508 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:47:42pm

re: #454 DrNaughty

The point is that there was much more than slavery that was dividing the United States in 1860.

Everybody was more closely related than today, so I presume you mean the cuisine?

509 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:47:51pm

re: #497 Dark_Falcon

Already done. Roast Dr. Naughty will be ready in 20 minutes.

Yep. He faded away with a song by Johnny Rebel and now he's going to hang out with the Latin Kings and Wrath-of-Korn.

//

510 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:48:06pm

re: #478 TheMatrix31

So ALL funding for ACORN is gone now? Or is the part they cut out only a small portion?

One head of the funding hydra has been cut off for show.

511 esch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:48:12pm

re: #504 Salamantis

We'll see if she blocks such a vote in spite of the massive political flak such a move would bring down on her.

(pleasepleaseplease)

512 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:48:34pm

re: #493 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Did you see that reversal of the Touchdown catch by the Raiders?

I'm not a fan. But that was terrible!

Half time..I gotta see this again

513 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:48:43pm

re: #492 gantww

But if the union was expanding and slave states weren't, wouldn't that have exposed them to eventually being able to be outvoted by the Yanks? Of course, they reacted stupidly and it got WAY out of hand, but in the early days I suppose it made sense to some of them.

(had relatives in the Confederacy. Still think slavery was a bad idea.)

That is why the South went to such lengths to keep the number of slave and free states equal in the Senate. That's also why the pro-slavery forces went to such lengths to try to bring Kansas into the union as a slave state.

514 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:48:55pm

re: #452 Van Helsing

I do that with things called 'charity' and 'volunteering'.
Those would be voluntary ways of helping those in need.

That works about as well as wall street voluntarily monitoring itself... basically it doesn't.

515 Chekote  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:49:15pm

re: #477 SanFranciscoZionist

Good stuff!

516 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:49:39pm

re: #504 Salamantis

All of it will be gone if the House also passes the bill. But for that to happen, Speaker Pelosi (I shudder every time I type those two words together) has to allow it up for a vote.

We'll see if she blocks such a vote in spite of the massive political flak such a move would bring down on her.

Even what was in the spendulis bill?

517 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:50:05pm

re: #504 Salamantis

Speaker Pelosi (I shudder every time I type those two words together)

Exposes quite the single-point-of-failure, doesn't it?

518 esch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:50:10pm

re: #514 Locker

Pffft.

519 JHW  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:50:11pm

re: #454 DrNaughty

sunsite.utk.edu...]>Declaration of the Causes of Secession

520 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:50:26pm

re: #513 Dark_Falcon

and the abolitionist's fought just as hard to see it didn't.

521 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:50:38pm

re: #502 Enkidu90046

I am a proud Raider-hater... but that was a crap call.

I can believe a ref blowing that call. But CRAP! On replay?

SHEESH!

522 McSpiff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:50:46pm

re: #518 esch

Pffft.

next time can we just have the coles notes version? ;-)

523 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:50:54pm

re: #484 Charles

I'm not waiting for any more of that crap to be posted.

I can't believe this. Apologists for slavery at LGF.


Thumbs down on this SOB. I belive Lincoln said something to the effect that apologists like this should spend some time in chains themselves.

524 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:51:03pm

re: #509 Gus 802

Yep. He faded away with a song by Johnny Rebel and now he's going to hang out with the Latin Kings and Wrath-of-Korn.

//

You ain't just whistling Dixie, Gus. :)

525 MightySkip  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:51:16pm

re: #349 Charles

Well I did not confront them if that is what you are getting at. Occasionally I would say something like, "You know you are an embarrassment right?" And glance around at others some would nod, some would shrug. If I got in a conversation with someone who made some odd claim I would just refute it and maybe we'd go back and forth a little. Mostly I was trying to be civil and so were they.

I guess I have an odd policy of engagement. Everyone should have the right to speak and we should have the right to speak back. I don't' see any of these people as lost causes and see no dishonor in engagement. There are always exceptions, those too far gone or too radioactive to even try. In my experience, these are a small minority.

526 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:51:36pm

re: #497 Dark_Falcon

did dr. n get the stick?

527 funky chicken  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:51:37pm

well, off to bed

I hope realwest is OK...

528 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:51:41pm

re: #482 Locker

PORT NEWARK.

PORT AUTHORITY

Right?

This stuff is too hard. And Dr. Naughty wouldn't tell me if I got the right answer to the Robert Byrd question.

/

529 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:51:47pm

re: #524 Dark_Falcon

You ain't just whistling Dixie, Gus. :)

"Damn it that place sucks. Let's go see what they're talking about."

//

530 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:52:05pm

re: #501 Van Helsing

I have no problem at all with the Representative Republic we live in. I don't have any problem at all with paying my taxes.
I do have a problem with a federal government that has bloated way beyond their Constitutional charter and is intent on taking on even more responsibilities that it should not. They can't effectively manage the programs they have now.

I sincerely respect this statement. Really. That point of a gun stuff man, you should drop this because when you say it this way, it has some real impact. Well written.

531 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:52:39pm

Charles? It's kind of ashamed you didn't let him get to the part where slaves joined the Confederacy to protect the South's rights.

They go there too.

I live in the South. Have heard the same bull-shit for years.

532 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:52:39pm

re: #487 SpaceJesus

aw, don't ban pat buchanan just yet. can we have fun with him just a little longer?

Note to self: Is SJ a cat?

533 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:52:43pm

re: #473 Locker

Democrat bad. Republican good.

It's not rocket science.

/which party's totally monetarily and politically intertwined with rotten ACORN?

534 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:52:56pm

re: #530 Locker

I sincerely respect this statement. Really. That point of a gun stuff man, you should drop this because when you say it this way, it has some real impact. Well written.

that

535 spiderx  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:53:17pm

re: #478 TheMatrix31

So ALL funding for ACORN is gone now? Or is the part they cut out only a small portion?

what funding for ACORN was that?

536 MightySkip  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:53:19pm

re: #360 Sharmuta

Well if you are going to have that kind of blanketed bigotry there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise.

537 Danny  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:53:27pm

re: #526 Boondock St. Bender

did dr. n get the stick?

Yup.

538 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:53:46pm

re: #533 Killian Bundy

It's not rocket science.

/which party's totally monetarily and politically intertwined with rotten ACORN?

You are asking for a pitch from the WRONG guy if you wanna play "who's worse". Sorry if that wasn't clear the first time.

539 McSpiff  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:53:54pm

re: #533 Killian Bundy

It's not rocket science.

/which party's totally monetarily and politically intertwined with rotten ACORN?

Well hot damn sign me up for the one party state! ///

540 Chekote  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:54:05pm

On my drive back from Austin, I was listening to Mark Levin. I think he's going after Beck. He didn't mention Beck's name. But he was talking about the tea party in DC and said it was a movement of the people and no one should pretend to their leader. He made a statement about a pretender grabbing a flag and getting in front of the people. And then said "get out of the way pretender!" I felt he was talking about Beck.

541 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:54:07pm

re: #514 Locker

That works about as well as wall street voluntarily monitoring itself... basically it doesn't.

It works if you actually do those things. Rather than expecting someone else (government) to solve your problems.

542 Enkidu90046  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:54:09pm

re: #513 Dark_Falcon

That is why the South went to such lengths to keep the number of slave and free states equal in the Senate. That's also why the pro-slavery forces went to such lengths to try to bring Kansas into the union as a slave state.

What I find interesting is that this sort of revisionist bullshit is becoming more and more popular on the far left too... they push it for different reasons of course. Another point where the far right and the far left converge to push a lie, albeit for different reasons.

543 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:54:14pm

re: #498 SpaceJesus

yep, and average southerners also were in favor of slavery and were vehemently anti-lincoln and anti-republican. just take a look at any southern news publication from the time.

Cat with history background/hobby?

544 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:54:24pm

re: #525 MightySkip

So you're not bothered the organizers are paulians, truthers and bigots?

545 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:54:25pm

re: #352 Capitalist Tool

At first, the fetus is just a mass of undifferentiated cells. At some point, it begins to take on human form. At some point, the soul ties into the form.

There are those who would argue that the idea of a soul is just an intellectual construct.

Is there a price to be paid for stopping the growth of a mass of undifferentiated cells? Probably not.
How about aborting the product of a rape- which truly was an intervention into the control of a woman's body? Probably not.
How about ending the life of a fetus after it is viable and the soul is ready to be birthed? Watch out.
Karma is what it is.

Well said, only -- it's not just about "karma" or "sin"; it's about the effect on the culture at large. I certainly wouldn't want to live in a society where pretty much everyone agreed that personhood begins at conception and that if a pregnant woman who doesn't want to be pregnant takes RU-486 (which kills the embryo while it's still at a very early stage in development, albeit well past the "mass of undifferentiated cells" stage), it's morally the same thing as though she suffocated her baby with a scarf after it was born.

But on the other hand, I would be just as unwilling to live in a society where a viable human fetus can be electively killed with no sense of remorse and shame, as just another medical procedure, and with less compassion than any normal child instinctively shows to a writhing, pink little hatchling bird that's fallen from the nest.

546 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:54:38pm

re: #537 Danny

damn missed it...bang,bang stinkys silver hammer came down upon his head!

547 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:54:50pm

Did Obama Call Kanye A Jackass?

If so, this will be the best thing Obama has or will ever do in his Presidency.

548 Dar ul Harbarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:54:53pm

No Comment

September 11, 2009 (San Diego) – “Long-range acoustic devices [LRADs] for crowd control can be extremely dangerous. These are used in Iraq to control insurgents. They can cause serious and lasting harm to humans…We want to know WHY our Sheriff Dept has this weapon,” Sal Magallanez of San Diego-based Liberty One Radio said in an e-mail sent to East County Magazine, prompting a joint investigation.

The device was stationed by San Diego County Sheriff deputies at a recent town hall forum hosted by Congresswoman Susan Davis (D-San Diego) in Spring Valley and at a subsequent town hall with Congressman Darrell Issa (R-San Diego). The Davis Rally drew an estimated 1,300-1,500 people, including vocal conservative and liberal protest groups.

549 MightySkip  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:55:03pm

re: #363 Killgore Trout

I'll have to respectfully disagree.

550 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:55:08pm

re: #536 MightySkip

Well if you are going to have that kind of blanketed bigotry there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise.

Hey- I'm not the bigot. The organizers on the other hand...

551 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:55:27pm

re: #547 TheMatrix31

Did Obama Call Kanye A Jackass?

If so, this will be the best thing Obama has or will ever do in his Presidency.

I completely agree with your sentiment, if not your exact text.

552 Arbalest  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:55:57pm

I watched the video on this thread.

A few things I notice:

1. I see no police at all. Were there any? How many? Were any wearing riot gear?

2. I saw no police at all in the pictures posted yesterday.

3. I see no signs of tear gas, fires, etc. Was any tear gas used at all?

4. ALL of the cars still had their windows. NONE were broken. None seemed to be vandalized at all

5. ALL of the cars in the pictures posted yesterday still had their windows.

6. None of the people were wearing masks, kerchiefs or anything to mask their identities

7. All of the people interviewed were polite and did not interrupt anyone

8. All of the people interviewed listened to the interviewer and waited for him to finish

9. I didn’t see much in the way of Nazi symbols in this video, not even in the background

10. Why are so many protesters sitting in lawn chairs? Don’t they know that there’s a protest going on?


Is this footage of the Tea Party in D.C. on 9/12? The one that Fox news reported (tonight about 6:15PM Pacific Time) had, as confirmed by the National Park Service, “zero arrests”, out of “several hundred thousand attendees” (as displayed on the TV screen)?

I see some craziness here, but it looks like you have to search for it; nothing like that commonly seen at most Leftist protests.

Zero arrests? Can anyone else confirm this?

553 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:56:06pm

re: #547 TheMatrix31

Did Obama Call Kanye A Jackass?

If so, this will be the best thing Obama has or will ever do in his Presidency.

Well, you know, the President just doesn't like black people. :-)

554 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:56:07pm

re: #547 TheMatrix31

Did Obama Call Kanye A Jackass?

If so, this will be the best thing Obama has or will ever do in his Presidency.

Upding for Obama.

555 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:56:20pm

re: #540 Chekote

On my drive back from Austin, I was listening to Mark Levin. I think he's going after Beck. He didn't mention Beck's name. But he was talking about the tea party in DC and said it was a movement of the people and no one should pretend to their leader. He made a statement about a pretender grabbing a flag and getting in front of the people. And then said "get out of the way pretender!" I felt he was talking about Beck.

This concept of a movement by the people, but without leadership; where does it come from? Seems somehow familiar...I don't know...

556 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:56:20pm

re: #508 Naso Tang

Everybody was more closely related than today, so I presume you mean the cuisine?

No, the clothes. It was impossible to get within less than a yard of a fashionably dressed woman. And even if you got the hoops out of the way, there was all that underwear.

557 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:56:41pm

re: #532 SanFranciscoZionist

Note to self: Is SJ a cat?

Here we go- SpaceJesus' secret identity

558 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:56:47pm

How could the founding fathers be so clear minded and eloquent as to reshape the world, and yet allow slavery to exist?
Historians have said that slavery was only a compromise solution to entice the Southern colonials to rebellion, but I think there was more to it.
Jefferson was one of this planet's most extraordinary men, but even while bringing the precepts of liberty and the roles of government into the next quantum level, he could not escape the mindset that slavery was valid.

That's the way it is with ideas and perception.

559 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:56:48pm

re: #523 The Shadow Do

Thumbs down on this SOB. I belive Lincoln said something to the effect that apologists like this should spend some time in chains themselves.

Here's the line:

Although volume upon volume has been witten to prove slavery a very good thing, we never hear of the man who wishes to take the good of it by being a slave himself.

Source: America: The Last, Best, Hope by William J Bennett.

560 Danny  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:56:48pm

re: #546 Boondock St. Bender

damn missed it...bang,bang stinkys silver hammer came down upon his head!

It wasn't much to watch. Sort of a slow motion thing that was pretty predictable. Sorta like a lame screen play.

561 ~Fianna  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:57:28pm

re: #475 SpaceJesus

pretty amazing how the southern secession was oddly timed exactly with the election of Lincoln, whose party was anti-slavery and whose election was won on the issue of stopping the expansion of slavery.

secession had everything to do with slavery. read books, they are good.

In fact, slavery was both a direct and an indirect cause.

Obviously, the direct cause, as everyone with an understanding of American history has already pointed out is that expansion of slavery was really not politically desirable any more. Northern (and even a vocal minority of Southern) people found slavery to be morally abhorrent. Once England and France abolished slavery (not just the slave trade, but slavery entire), political pressure both external and internal made the days of slave state expansion in the US numbered.

The second issue is population. The North rapidly outpaced the South in terms of manufacturing capacity, hard currency and voting population (while the franchise wasn't yet universal, even for white men, a percentage of laborers in the North were able to vote, whereas no slave laborers in the South could vote (and, of course, if they could, it would have likely been more votes for abolition) so European, immigrant views along with the general prevalence of abolitionist religious sentiment in the North made it virtually impossible for the South to have continued to dominate electoral politics.

The third issue is technological and economic - again, the North had the machines and was producing the hard goods. The South was (and still in a lot of ways is) a raw-materials area. Raw materials are rarely a source of wealth, the value is added in processing. Plantations almost never actually made money - the Gone With the Wind folks were as leveraged as the guy down the street from you who's under water on a 30 year option-ARM... probably more so. And cotton had problems - slave labor is expensive labor (you don't feed a machine, nor do you have to house it or give it shoes or even rudimentary medical care), the boll weevil infestation was destroying cotton crops, and England was able to "domestically" produce cotton from within its own empire in India and Africa, so no longer was purchasing so much of the South's. The whole system of slavery was deprecated and the South was feeling it.

562 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:57:32pm

re: #552 Arbalest

Ah, I get it. Nothing to see here.

Yep, move along everybody. Everything's under control. Captain Ron Paul will be here in a minute to take care of things.

//

563 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:57:38pm

re: #552 Arbalest

Yeah, but which ones made the news?

564 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:58:47pm

re: #524 Dark_Falcon

You ain't just whistling Dixie, Gus. :)

Only country-western song title ever to correctly use the subjunctive: "I Wish I Were In Dixie Tonight, But She's Out Of Town".

My mind, it is full of this trivia.

565 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:58:51pm

re: #558 Capitalist Tool

How could the founding fathers be so clear minded and eloquent as to reshape the world, and yet allow slavery to exist?
Historians have said that slavery was only a compromise solution to entice the Southern colonials to rebellion, but I think there was more to it.
Jefferson was one of this planet's most extraordinary men, but even while bringing the precepts of liberty and the roles of government into the next quantum level, he could not escape the mindset that slavery was valid.

That's the way it is with ideas and perception.

If we view history as if it were written about us, we will never understand it.

566 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:59:02pm

re: #538 Locker

You are asking for a pitch from the WRONG guy if you wanna play "who's worse". Sorry if that wasn't clear the first time.

/I'm not the one who turned the issue into an infantile dichotomy

567 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:59:17pm

re: #546 Boondock St. Bender

damn missed it...bang,bang stinkys silver hammer came down upon his head!

Mjolnir.

568 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:59:19pm

re: #559 Dark_Falcon

Source: America: The Last, Best, Hope by William J Bennett.

Thank you, that is exactly it. And it is amzing that it still should resonate among some.

569 jaunte  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:59:26pm

re: #562 Gus 802

I think he might only be energetic enough now to introduce Rand.

571 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:59:48pm

re: #558 Capitalist Tool

Jefferson knew that that slavery was not valid. He also knew what could and could not be changed, and his time was not the time when slavery could be abolished. So he had his own slaves and treated them well. Realist is not something I would attribute to Jefferson, but in this situation it was applicable.

572 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:00:10pm

re: #542 Enkidu90046

What I find interesting is that this sort of revisionist bullshit is becoming more and more popular on the far left too... they push it for different reasons of course. Another point where the far right and the far left converge to push a lie, albeit for different reasons.

For real? What's the left's angle on it?

573 Chekote  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:00:31pm

I will keep checking the Levin show to see if he goes after Beck. You know that Hannity has to be nervous. Beck is beating him without a prime time slot. I know that Levin went after Savage pretty hard. I think Savage was dropped by his flagship station in SF.

574 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:00:55pm

re: #540 Chekote

On my drive back from Austin, I was listening to Mark Levin. I think he's going after Beck. He didn't mention Beck's name. But he was talking about the tea party in DC and said it was a movement of the people and no one should pretend to their leader. He made a statement about a pretender grabbing a flag and getting in front of the people. And then said "get out of the way pretender!" I felt he was talking about Beck.

You pegged at least one of 'em- the biggest pretender so far.
It's the ones behind the scenes you have to watch out for...

575 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:01:19pm

re: #547 TheMatrix31

Did Obama Call Kanye A Jackass?

If so, this will be the best thing Obama has or will ever do in his Presidency.

Well, he could do some stuff that would be better-but if it's true, it shows good instincts.

576 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:01:31pm

Extremism is the real evil, not alternate perspectives.

577 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:02:01pm

re: #572 SanFranciscoZionist

For real? What's the left's angle on it?


They want to teach the kids that Lincoln was a Democrat.

578 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:02:16pm

Rivers needs to pick it up in the second half.

/Super Bill needs eleven points

579 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:03:12pm

re: #577 Mauser

They want to teach the kids that Lincoln was a Democrat.

Made me laugh!

580 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:03:31pm

G'night John-Boy!

Screw you Kanye.

581 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:03:45pm

re: #445 SpaceJesus

sure, and I'm the fucking queen of Uzbekistan

Worst. Dorothy Parker impression. Ever.

/your medley of extemporanea here

582 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:03:53pm

I don't worry about 'em taking away our guns. Ain't gonna happen.

I saw a statistic the other day that Remington has sold over 3 1/2 million Model 700 rifles.
That's one model from one company, a statistic which isn't lost on any rational politico.

583 Locker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:03:55pm

re: #580 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

G'night John-Boy!

Screw you Kanye.

Peace man.

584 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:04:05pm

re: #419 Sharmuta

Little quirks and a fondness for penises are things we have in common, Dear. What's not to like about you from my perspective?

I like penises as well. Actually, that's not true. I only like my penis.

/perhaps a bit too much, and a bit too often :)

585 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:04:39pm

re: #580 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

G'night John-Boy!

Screw you Kanye.

dammit, only one upding

586 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:04:46pm

re: #571 cliffster

Jefferson knew that that slavery was not valid. He also knew what could and could not be changed, and his time was not the time when slavery could be abolished. So he had his own slaves and treated them well. Realist is not something I would attribute to Jefferson, but in this situation it was applicable.

Plus, he wanted to keep Sally Hemmings around...

587 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:04:47pm

re: #565 Naso Tang

If we view history as if it were written about us, we will never understand it.

I really struggle with Jefferson on this one. I can't get there from here.

588 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:05:22pm

re: #584 Slumbering Behemoth

I like penises as well. Actually, that's not true. I only like my penis.

/perhaps a bit too much, and a bit too often :)

*snort* It's true men like at least one.

589 spiderx  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:05:27pm

re: #342 MightySkip

I have to ask the question of which of you were actually there? I was and certainly saw some of the craziness but I saw a lot more just normal, rational people with legitimate grievances. Now, you may argue that last point, but they considered them legitimate and had formulated their own opinions based on facts from various sources and not spoon fed by anyone. Why disregard everyone then?

In all honestly I would be curious to know what makes going there so wrong? Sure, writing letters, supporting political candidates with donations and time from your home is fine but where is the error in organizing in force and displaying your displeasure so the politicians understand you are serious? You hear about this event, have similar stances based on what the organizers are supporting (I went through the 912 organizers website for this event and I did not see anything listed anywhere saying something to the effect of, ‘Hate black people? Like threatening violence? Come on down!’ Maybe I missed it), want to show your support and also meet other people whose opinions are similar.

When you see something like this at the rally, what is the appropriate response? Run away? Ignoring the tens of thousands others who aren’t calling Obama Hitler? Cave in to the demands of those holding the signs and eliminate completely the rational protesters? Go over and beat them with a baseball bat? Isn’t that violence? Help me out here. I am genuinely curious to know what is considered an acceptable form or action of protest to the Lizard community.

not everyone there was holding an offensive sign that doesn't mean those that weren't were rational thinkers. Of all the youtube videos of the event and all the interviews I've seen I've yet to hear anything rational come out of these people. It's just all ignorance and lunacy.

590 Enkidu90046  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:05:40pm

re: #572 SanFranciscoZionist

For real? What's the left's angle on it?

It is a way of saying, despite the North fighting a bloody war to end slavery, that ALL of the United States is and was deeply racist and hated blacks.

591 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:05:48pm

Here's what the kook wing of the wingnut blogs is saying about me tonight:

[Link: americanpowerblog.blogspot.com...]

592 Desert Dog  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:05:53pm

re: #406 Locker

One thing Conservatives fail to acknowledge is this... everyone isn't like "you". Some folks aren't capable of doing what you can do or what conservatives expect them to do. Some folks may have been capable but had it beat out of them by circumstance. Everyone is different and you can't try to force everyone into the same little package.

I am not advocating to keep things as they are and I respect your references to incentive etc. Personally I think giving money to people is not a good thing for poverty relief. Give food, give housing, give education, give health care, give day care and yes, yes, yes give employment help.

So lets talk about what does work and what we can improve.

I can virtually guarantee you that if you give a person a job, and let them take care of themselves, society is better off, that person is better off, the children of that person is better off. There are exceptions to every rule and I am quite aware of some people that need help. Let's give that to them. But, It is still best when you make a poor person an unpoor person.

It really is that simple. Give them a job and the rest takes care of itself.

593 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:05:59pm
594 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:06:01pm

re: #571 cliffster

Jefferson knew that that slavery was not valid. He also knew what could and could not be changed, and his time was not the time when slavery could be abolished. So he had his own slaves and treated them well. Realist is not something I would attribute to Jefferson, but in this situation it was applicable.

He was also sunk far too deep in debt to free his slaves, and deeply fearful of what would happen if there was a large free black population.

595 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:06:33pm

Flounce #4.

596 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:07:15pm

re: #591 Charles

Here's what the kook wing of the wingnut blogs is saying about me tonight:

[Link: americanpowerblog.blogspot.com...]

Ah, that's the mediocre no-name community college history professor instructor.

597 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:07:15pm

re: #591 Charles

Here's what the kook wing of the wingnut blogs is saying about me tonight:

[Link: americanpowerblog.blogspot.com...]

What, no pics?

598 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:07:48pm

re: #591 Charles

Here's what the kook wing of the wingnut blogs is saying about me tonight:

[Link: americanpowerblog.blogspot.com...]

Are these people not aware your traffic is up?

599 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:08:00pm

re: #577 Mauser

They want to teach the kids that Lincoln was a Democrat.

Hmmm. I think they've got a better chance with him being gay.

600 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:08:04pm

I notice that the stupid cretin who calls himself Ace says "it's not personal."

Yes, Ace. Yes, it is very personal.

601 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:08:06pm

re: #591 Charles

I think they mean you're mendacious...

602 jaunte  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:08:39pm

re: #591 Charles

Lots of wishful thinking there about them "hammering" and you "taking it on the chin."

Not.

603 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:08:43pm

re: #581 Throbert McGee

Worst. Dorothy Parker impression. Ever.

/your medley of extemporanea here

And love is a thing that can never go wrong...

604 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:08:43pm

re: #598 Sharmuta

Are these people not aware your traffic is up?

That guy has zero comments!

605 JHW  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:09:13pm

Confronting Civil War Revisionism

I wasn't going to post this at first, but it is very instructive to follow the links and see just how insane some of this stuff is, related to what's been discussed here. For instance, advocating a new country in 5 states, with religious, and no doubt, racial, purity tests. You have to examine the links, this link itself just calls attention to how widespread this crap is.
Confederates on the Internet, the source is the Univ. of Nevada I believe.

606 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:09:23pm

re: #604 Gus 802

That guy has zero comments!

He used to be a blogging nobody. And he still is.

607 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:09:41pm

BBIAF

608 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:09:46pm

re: #578 Killian Bundy

Rivers needs to pick it up in the second half.

/Super Bill needs eleven points

Ugh, KB. Maybe Obama should pass a stimulus package for our fantasy wide receiver production?

609 jaunte  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:10:04pm

re: #604 Gus 802

That guy has zero comments!

Hey Donald Douglas. Zero comments!
How's your chin?

610 Zoomie  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:10:19pm

All the acceptable safety nets are threatened by the run away spending. Our representatives have already authorized the borrowing of $150,000 per person or about $450,000 per family to cover the $59 Trillion bill for Medicare-caid and SS. We have involuntarily co-signed to pay this bill.

California government shows the results of overspending. They have turned good causes and cliches into future obligations AGAINST the citizens. How is that CA budget working for some of the vulnerable who thought that CA would be there for them?

My relative just went on SS disability. He had a stroke at 53. He lost his ability to do math and to speak complete sentences. SS took three years to decide. Now he has $1,200 (less 100 for Medicare) per month to live on. I am glad we have that safety net.

I want that safety net for others and I want you all to be able to retire on your $1,500 SS checks. (Hope you are doing a little saving and buying the .1 oz American Eagle every mo)

The spirit of the protests is to bring our 'Representatives' under control, to fix the existing programs, and if they are not fixed and funded then how in the bleep can we add to an unfunded burden?

This math will cause a huge backlash at the polls in 2010.

611 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:10:33pm

Poofed, right in front of me!
Wheee!

612 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:10:35pm

Here's Dan Riehl, putting his reputation on the line to defend a white supremacist:

[Link: www.riehlworldview.com...]

613 Danny  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:10:39pm

re: #604 Gus 802

That guy has zero comments!

He's one of the lucky ones. He could have been less than zero.

614 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:11:50pm

re: #612 Charles

Here's Dan Riehl, putting his reputation on the line to defend a white supremacist:

[Link: www.riehlworldview.com...]

Zero comments!

He'll have to wait until the stalkers read the link here while they're busy watching us and copying and pasting. ;)

615 Racer X  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:11:52pm
Man claims drinking after driving

LUND, Sweden, Sept. 11 (UPI) -- A Swedish court cleared a drunken driving suspect of wrongdoing after he told the jury he wasn't drunk until after the car was stopped.

The man, who was arrested after witnesses saw him swerving and followed his car until he pulled over, told the Lund District Court he drank more than 16 ounces of hard liquor at the side of the road while the witnesses weren't paying close attention, The Local reported Friday.

Police said the man was so intoxicated when they arrived that he had trouble standing. However, jurors said they determined the man's claims of post-driving drinking could not be disproved and the case was dismissed.

Riiight.

616 MightySkip  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:12:18pm

re: #460 Naso Tang

True enough, it seemed in order to keep it civil, no one was trying to agitate one another. I am guess your suggestion would be something along the lines of, one of the prominent organizers, a high ranking Republican or some well known conservative pundit, for instance, should denounce the kooks? However, wouldn't that then serve to give people who oppose these rallies ammunition against them?

617 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:12:23pm

Did Tammy Bruce ever apologize for pillorying those poor boys at Duke who were accused of rape?

618 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:12:56pm

re: #612 Charles

you put someone into quite a tizzy...you can almost see the froth and spittle on his screen.

619 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:13:05pm

re: #595 Charles

Flounce #4.

Only 4? That doesn't count the ones you pre-empted, right?

620 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:13:49pm

I bet Amer. Power bloggers make lots of signs for Tea Party events...

"...a conscience-free smear merchant, a thuggish paranoid and a liar, but at least 25% of Tea Party Sign Wavers are good for few few laughs..."

621 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:14:06pm

re: #617 Capitalist Tool

Did Tammy Bruce ever apologize for pillorying those poor boys at Duke who were accused of rape?

Not sure what could possibly serve as a worthwhile apology?

622 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:14:35pm

re: #617 Capitalist Tool

Did Tammy Bruce ever apologize for pillorying those poor boys at Duke who were accused of rape?

Did anyone?
Sharpton? Jackson? Nifong? All the profs at the school demanding their immediate expulsion?
Verdict first!

623 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:15:01pm

Charles 619 comments on this thread alone (as of this point)
other two writing smack-a combined 0(they must be very influential)

624 MJ  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:15:03pm

New York Times does it best to help HRW:

Rights Group Assailed for Analyst’s Nazi Collection

A leading human rights group has suspended its senior military analyst following revelations that he is an avid collector of Nazi memorabilia...

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]


This article hardly touches the surface of HRW's hatred of Israel.
Marc Garlasco is not gone, just suspended.
To read the actual story of HRW's campaign of vilification of Israel, see

[Link: www.ngo-monitor.org...]

625 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:15:04pm

re: #615 Racer X

Depends on what your definition of is, is.

626 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:15:29pm

re: #610 Zoomie

Oh yes, the protesters will bring the Congress under control by accusing them of either being Commies or RINOs and by screaming racial epithets at president Obama. That'll you 'em!

/dripping sarc

627 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:16:25pm

re: #621 cliffster

Not sure what could possibly serve as a worthwhile apology?

She could get on the air and say how wrong she was and that some of her offended listeners have opened her eyes to the point that she's seeking professional help to root out some of her deep- seated man- hatred, of which she was heretofore unaware.

That would be a start.

628 Chekote  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:16:26pm

Man! These threads move so fast! I gotta learn to type and read faster. Good nite lizards (I think this is right) :)

629 sagehen  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:16:48pm

re: #276 cliffster

You say that, based on what?

When Bush slashed funds for the WIC program, there was no great outcry from the anti-abortion crowd. And when he vetoed the S-CHIP expansion, the religious right (and all good movement conservatives) were solidly behind him.

It was only liberals who made any sort of noise about wanting those programs to be well-funded.

630 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:16:48pm

re: #303 gantww

I've always looked at welfare as sort of a fee that you pay to keep from getting looted and killed by poor people. I know that sounds really cynical, but the underlying reality is that a "slave" revolt is always a matter of concern for the more comfortable classes. I don't pay it for the children - I pay it for mine.

That's why the Romans provided free bread, to keep the headcount from revolting against the patricians.

631 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:17:02pm

re: #626 Dark_Falcon

Oh yes, the protesters will bring the Congress under control by accusing them of either being Commies or RINOs and by screaming racial epithets at president Obama. That'll you 'em!

/dripping sarc

Clearly the Right is suffering a Paper Mache Puppet Gap.

632 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:17:06pm

re: #587 SanFranciscoZionist

I really struggle with Jefferson on this one. I can't get there from here.

Sure you can. Delete your cell phone, delete the internet, delete TV, dig your potatoes, count weeks or months for your last letter to be answered, and consider all the time you have to think in between.

633 MJ  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:17:07pm

re: #624 MJ

For more on Garlasco, see:

[Link: www.mererhetoric.com...]

634 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:17:35pm

re: #614 Gus 802

Zero comments!

He'll have to wait until the stalkers read the link here while they're busy watching us and copying and pasting. ;)

I want them to see it and go post their sick drivel at these sites -- that's why I mention them. Let everybody see what kind of people they are.

635 Enkidu90046  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:17:45pm

re: #622 Van Helsing

Did anyone?
Sharpton? Jackson? Nifong? All the profs at the school demanding their immediate expulsion?
Verdict first!

At least Jamele Hill, the race-baiting writer for ESPN, did apologize for her rush to judgment... one of the few times I haven't despised one of her articles.

636 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:18:01pm

Honestly Charles I sometimes wonder about your safety. You got em on both sides now :(

637 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:18:19pm

re: #626 Dark_Falcon

Oh yes, the protesters will bring the Congress under control by accusing them of either being Commies or RINOs and by screaming racial epithets at president Obama. That'll you 'em!

/dripping sarc

In light of recent events, and not that they ever had it, but the Republican managed to completely lose the black and hispanic vote for good.

638 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:18:28pm

re: #630 ggt

What have the Romans ever done for us?

639 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:18:51pm

re: #631 Mauser

Perhaps they'll construct a "duck of tax revolt" baloon or some such.

640 Wendya  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:19:04pm

re: #535 spiderx

what funding for ACORN was that?

HUD funding.

641 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:19:18pm

re: #629 sagehen

When Bush slashed funds for the WIC program, there was no great outcry from the anti-abortion crowd. And when he vetoed the S-CHIP expansion, the religious right (and all good movement conservatives) were solidly behind him.

It was only liberals who made any sort of noise about wanting those programs to be well-funded.

You're right. That's proof that any man who opposes abortion hates women.
/C'mon.

642 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:19:40pm

re: #638 Killgore Trout

What have the Romans ever done for us?

Concrete!

643 Arbalest  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:19:46pm

#562 Gus 802
#569 Jaunte

There’s a post here at LGF (not by me), approximately:

Will the last Paulistinian to leave please secure the blimp.

If you have the time and interest, you might want to locate the thread it’s on and review the context. It's interesting reading.

Sharmuta

I had hoped for a comment, rather than just dings. Is 2007 really that long ago?

644 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:20:08pm

re: #616 MightySkip

True enough, it seemed in order to keep it civil, no one was trying to agitate one another. I am guess your suggestion would be something along the lines of, one of the prominent organizers, a high ranking Republican or some well known conservative pundit, for instance, should denounce the kooks? However, wouldn't that then serve to give people who oppose these rallies ammunition against them?

Yes it would, and that is what I think is called appeasement of populism, which is the opposite of leadership; but it does have advantages for contributions.

///

(sarcs for the uninitiated)

645 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:20:16pm

re: #630 ggt

That's why the Romans provided free bread, to keep the headcount from revolting against the patricians.

Bread and circuses.
Indeed, and they found that they couldn't keep it going forever.

646 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:20:34pm

re: #642 Gus 802

Concrete!

Pizza!

647 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:20:57pm

re: #638 Killgore Trout

What have the Romans ever done for us?

[Video]

They gave us "do as ..."

648 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:21:33pm

re: #638 Killgore Trout

Sewers.

649 scrubjay  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:21:34pm
spokesman for the National Park Service, Dan Bana, is quoted as saying "It is a record... We believe it is the largest event held in Washington, D.C., ever."

Wow!

650 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:21:43pm

re: #638 Killgore Trout

What have the Romans ever done for us?

[Video]

Gave us the Senate?

651 norman1905  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:21:56pm

So if you disagree with Obama, does that automatically make you a nutbar?

652 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:22:20pm

re: #650 Capitalist Tool

Gave us the Senate?

They can have this one back.

653 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:22:28pm

O.T. what the hell are the refs.wearing tonite???

654 ~Fianna  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:22:36pm

re: #605 JHW

Confronting Civil War Revisionism

I wasn't going to post this at first, but it is very instructive to follow the links and see just how insane some of this stuff is, related to what's been discussed here. For instance, advocating a new country in 5 states, with religious, and no doubt, racial, purity tests. You have to examine the links, this link itself just calls attention to how widespread this crap is.
Confederates on the Internet, the source is the Univ. of Nevada I believe.

Very interesting website. Outdated in a few bits, though. For one thing, the Sons of the Confederate Veterans organization has some serious issues with hate. They've got a BIG crossover in leadership with Council of Conservative Citizens, which is an openly white supremacist group.

Incidentally, Rep. Wilson, the Congressional Shouter is a member of SCV, and also was a protegee of Strom Thurmond's (and said some very questionable things about Thurmond's daughter when she stepped forward.)

655 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:22:37pm

re: #651 norman1905

So if you disagree with Obama, does that automatically make you a nutbar?

Snickers?

656 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:23:03pm

re: #647 Naso Tang

Of course, the Multiculturalists have updated that for us. "When it Rome, do as the Romans do. When in the US, continue to do as the Romans (et. al.) do out of respect for their culture."

657 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:23:03pm

re: #649 scrubjay

spokesman for the National Park Service, Dan Bana, is quoted as saying "It is a record... We believe it is the largest event held in Washington, D.C., ever."

Wow!

You idiot. Do you realize you're quoting what the Parks Dept. said about OBAMA'S INAUGURATION?

I suspect you do know, and you're just posting that crap here to try to trick people.

658 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:23:06pm

re: #547 TheMatrix31

Did Obama Call Kanye A Jackass?

If so, this will be the best thing Obama has or will ever do in his Presidency.

I dunno about you, but I thought it was pretty cool when he gave the go-ahead to stick it to those pirates. I'd have to say that ranks higher than calling a douchebag a jackass.

659 Enkidu90046  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:23:09pm

re: #624 MJ

New York Times does it best to help HRW:

Rights Group Assailed for Analyst’s Nazi Collection

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

This article hardly touches the surface of HRW's hatred of Israel.
Marc Garlasco is not gone, just suspended.
To read the actual story of HRW's campaign of vilification of Israel, see

[Link: www.ngo-monitor.org...]

My God... this sick fuck uses the screen name "Flak88" and we all know what "88" stand for...

660 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:23:28pm

re: #591 Charles

Here's what the kook wing of the wingnut blogs is saying about me tonight:

[Link: americanpowerblog.blogspot.com...]


Beautiful, just beautiful.

Hammer 'em Charles.

He's a conscience-free smear merchant, a thuggish paranoid and a liar, but at least Charles Johnson is good for a few laughs.

661 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:23:34pm

re: #651 norman1905

So if you disagree with Obama, does that automatically make you a nutbar?

Nutbar? I'm struggling with this, but I have an inkling of potential here.

662 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:23:39pm

We've got another one going through the thread dinging up the extremists.

663 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:24:08pm

re: #627 Capitalist Tool

She could get on the air and say how wrong she was and that some of her offended listeners have opened her eyes to the point that she's seeking professional help to root out some of her deep- seated man- hatred, of which she was heretofore unaware.

That would be a start.

So she has 'deep-seated man-hatred'? What's Nifong's excuse?

664 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:24:09pm

re: #651 norman1905

No, being a poorly informed douchebag makes you a nut bar. Why do you ask?

665 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:24:58pm

re: #658 Slumbering Behemoth

That was pretty good too ;)

666 jaunte  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:25:15pm

re: #612 Charles

Here's Dan Riehl, putting his reputation on the line to defend a white supremacist:

[Link: www.riehlworldview.com...]

Dan Riehl mentions Fran Coombs of the Washington Times in his piece. Here's a bit of background on his politics, just in case Riehl is unfamiliar with the ideas he chooses to defend. (///)

In an interview, Coombs spoke proudly of his influence on the immigration debate. "Every article used to be about how the government abuses immigrants," Coombs told me. "Not one showed the negative impact of immigration. I don't want to suggest we led the way, but we were the first or one of the first to discuss immigration not from some feel-good perspective."

Countering the "feel-good perspective" on race appears to be Coombs's passion. George Archibald told me that when he showed Coombs a photo of his nephew's African-American girlfriend, Coombs "went off like a rocket about interracial marriage and how terrible it was. He actually used the phrase 'the n---rfication of America.' He said, 'Not in my lifetime. If my daughter went out with a black, I would cut her throat.'"

Archibald recounted a discussion in 1992 among several Times reporters and editors: "We were having a conversation about abortion. We were all prolife, antiabortion, and we were trying to explain how we would discuss this in the paper. All of a sudden Fran blurts out that he is pro-abortion. I argued with him and he said, 'How do you think we're going to stop the population growth of the minorities and all the welfare people?'" Another Times senior staffer recounted similar statements about abortion and race by Coombs at a party, where Coombs called himself a "racial nationalist." A former staffer alleged that Coombs used racial slurs including "spic" and "[bigoted word]" inside the Times.
[Link: www.thenation.com...]

667 Noam Sayin'  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:25:23pm
668 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:25:42pm

re: #632 Naso Tang

Sure you can. Delete your cell phone, delete the internet, delete TV, dig your potatoes, count weeks or months for your last letter to be answered, and consider all the time you have to think in between.

And then I'll understand his weird-ass ideas about race and slavery?

669 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:25:55pm

re: #656 Mauser

Of course, the Multiculturalists have updated that for us. "When it Rome, do as the Romans do. When in the US, continue to do as the Romans (et. al.) do out of respect for their culture."


The eminent Silvio Berlusconi notwithstanding, Modern Romans seem to have gotten by without any sort of real government for quite some time now.

670 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:26:15pm

re: #657 Charles

You idiot. Do you realize you're quoting what the Parks Dept. said about OBAMA'S INAUGURATION?

Now that is rich.

671 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:26:29pm

ROMANES EUNT DOMUS

672 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:26:29pm

re: #662 Charles

We've got another one going through the thread dinging up the extremists.

And he's now been blocked, I assume.

673 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:27:10pm

Watsh as stinky stalks his prey...silently drawing ever closer...
the foolish troll dings with giddy abandon...aannddd There it is BANG!

674 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:27:19pm

re: #651 norman1905

Whatever we say will not convince you otherwise. You, like many others have already made up your minds. There are many points to this situation one of which means those of us that disagree with Obama have decided not to align themselves with the anti-intellectualism prevalent in today's political debate.

675 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:27:43pm

re: #663 SanFranciscoZionist

So she has 'deep-seated man-hatred'? What's Nifong's excuse?

He hates men, too. Because they're competition for women. Especially young athletic scions of the rich.

/

676 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:28:01pm

Charles is so irrelevant that everyone is talking about him.

677 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:28:13pm

re: #656 Mauser

Of course, the Multiculturalists have updated that for us. "When it Rome, do as the Romans do. When in the US, continue to do as the Romans (et. al.) do out of respect for their culture."

But of course this tack has an ending, as did the Romans, falling to populism and lack of leadership. A party, even for tea, needs someone to tell when it is over, or at least whose place to go next. So far I haven't heard that voice.

678 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:28:33pm

re: #617 Capitalist Tool

Did Tammy Bruce ever apologize for pillorying those poor boys at Duke who were accused of rape?

Whoa! Hadn't heard about that...

679 sagehen  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:28:53pm

re: #341 spiderx

in 2005 when there were Hitler imagery at war protests against Bush Sean Hannity over and over and over asked every left wing guest of his to denounce the radicalism.

2009 with hitler imagery at anti-Obama protests . Sean Hannity describes the crowd as Patriots without a mention of the crazyness.

And I bet if you ask him how he feels about single-party government, or whether the Senate minority should be able to use the filibuster, or how much input the House minority should have in crafting legislation, his answers will all be exactly opposite to what they were four years ago.

In fact, if you ask those questions of the entire Congress, 90% of them would answer opposite to how they did four years ago...

680 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:28:53pm

re: #676 Sharmuta

Charles is so irrelevant that everyone is talking about him.

Who's Kevin Green again? I think he runs the Volgapundit site.

//

681 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:29:02pm

re: #676 Sharmuta

Charles is so irrelevant that everyone is talking about him.

Odd that, no?

Great observation

682 Flyers1974  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:29:35pm

re: #663 SanFranciscoZionist

So she has 'deep-seated man-hatred'? What's Nifong's excuse?

Politics. Facing re-election.

683 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:29:45pm

re: #649 scrubjay

"YOU LIE!"

(snicker)

684 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:30:08pm

This is where that dishonest quote from the Parks Service is originating: American Thinker.

[Link: www.americanthinker.com...]

685 Enkidu90046  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:30:10pm

re: #653 Boondock St. Bender

O.T. what the hell are the refs.wearing tonite???

I think they are all wearing throwback uniforms since this is the 40th anniversary of MNF.

686 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:30:18pm

re: #677 Naso Tang

Actually, the point of that is you can insert any other culture for "Rome" in the new wording. Try it with Islam and you'll see where we are today.

687 JHW  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:30:27pm

re: #654 ~Fianna

You're right, I think the site is a few years old, but the links are invaluable (and usually current). The loony site I alluded to (I'm not going to link it) is "The Confederacy Project", easily found on a google search, but there seem to be dozens, if not hundreds of these type sites.

688 driftwood  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:30:58pm

It seems to me that some earnest righties on the web missed lessons in the previous 8 years - showing up at protests meant you were one cog in the Bush Sucks machine, no one really cared what your specific complaints were, because who has time to sort through that cacophony? The organizers don't want to, and the audience won't bother. Participation is a matter of numbers and 2 or 3 sound bites, and for the opposition it's about the crazy signs and general dumbassery.

Disclaimer: I'm an independent voter (Undeclared), have been for years. This current crowd does not scream "Republican" to me. This crowd has the flavor of anti-gay, anti-science, anti-vax, anti-public school, no-candidate-is-conservative-enough-for-me Conservatism - the people who yell "RINO" at others at the drop of a hat, and stay away from the polls in group snits. In my humble opinion it is wrong to try to "win" these people back - they only used the GOP anyway. Write 'em off and rebuild the party.

689 MJ  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:31:15pm

re: #659 Enkidu90046

My God... this sick fuck uses the screen name "Flak88" and we all know what "88" stand for...

He's a real piece of work.
I've been very critical of Helena Cobban for years. However, give her credit for saying this guy has to go which is more than the NYT is willing to do. They still believe that any criticism of HRW is done by Right Wing fanatics.

690 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:31:49pm

re: #657 Charles

I never realized what a problem reading comprehension was before.

691 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:31:49pm

re: #686 Mauser

Actually, the point of that is you can insert any other culture for "Rome" in the new wording. Try it with Islam and you'll see where we are today.

All roads lead there?

692 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:32:10pm

re: #685 Enkidu90046

I think they are all wearing throwback uniforms since this is the 40th anniversary of MNF.

For the next sports anniversary, can we bring back Pepsi throwback for the occasion? I really loved that stuff.

693 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:32:18pm

re: #685 Enkidu90046

the refs.used to be candy stripers? wow

694 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:32:59pm

re: #663 SanFranciscoZionist

So she has 'deep-seated man-hatred'? What's Nifong's excuse?

I stand by my statement(s). I've listened to her make too many comments about men in past to think otherwise. I do not think she is aware of the problem.
I've listened to her valid and engaging statements on a wide variety of issues. Sometimes. Her program isn't broadcast in this market.
I overlook her quirks just as I do for everyone I know.

695 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:33:16pm

re: #684 Charles

This is where that dishonest quote from the Parks Service is originating: American Thinker.

[Link: www.americanthinker.com...]

Nirthers.

696 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:33:54pm

re: #691 SanFranciscoZionist

I meant "When in Islam, do as the Islamics do. When in the US, continue to do as the Islamics (et. al.) do out of respect for their culture."

According to the multiculturalists.

697 jaunte  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:34:26pm

Wrong photo:

...supporters of Saturday’s “tea party” protests against President Barack Obama were quick to highlight their big turnout. To bolster countless claims on blogs and Facebook, many posted a photograph that showed a gargantuan crowd sprawling from Capitol Hill down the National Mall to the Washington Monument.

But it turns out the photo is more than 10 years old, apparently taken during a 1997 Promise Keepers rally.
[Link: www.politifact.com...]

698 scrubjay  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:34:50pm

re: #657 Charles

Your right. The quote was corrected later in the article. Sorry.

699 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:35:33pm

Philip Rivers needs to be made humble.

701 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:35:41pm

re: #695 Sharmuta

Nirthers.

And general kookiness at American Thinker:

Barry Soetoro Barack Hussein Obama II is of course another one. That's why, having conquered the US presidency from the far, far, outasight Left, while covering up his true identity, he now feels the craving to preside over the UN Security Council for the first time in history. Being President doesn't satisfy Mr. Obama. He must be the Second Coming of Christ, giving lasting peace to all the peoples of the world whether they like it or not. Swallow that ObamaCare, kid, or else.
702 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:35:46pm

re: #558 Capitalist Tool

How could the founding fathers be so clear minded and eloquent as to reshape the world, and yet allow slavery to exist?
Historians have said that slavery was only a compromise solution to entice the Southern colonials to rebellion, but I think there was more to it.
Jefferson was one of this planet's most extraordinary men, but even while bringing the precepts of liberty and the roles of government into the next quantum level, he could not escape the mindset that slavery was valid.

That's the way it is with ideas and perception.

Jefferson could not maintain his lifestyle without his slaves. He was in deep debt and couldn't free his slaves if he wanted to. This was a big conflict with his vision that he never seemed to resolve.

703 Enkidu90046  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:36:09pm

re: #689 MJ

He's a real piece of work.
I've been very critical of Helena Cobban for years. However, give her credit for saying this guy has to go which is more than the NYT is willing to do. They still believe that any criticism of HRW is done by Right Wing fanatics.

What is sad, is that this latest revelation about the HRW doesn't even surprise me.

704 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:36:33pm

re: #694 Capitalist Tool

I stand by my statement(s). I've listened to her make too many comments about men in past to think otherwise. I do not think she is aware of the problem.
I've listened to her valid and engaging statements on a wide variety of issues. Sometimes. Her program isn't broadcast in this market.
I overlook her quirks just as I do for everyone I know.

I am not familiar with her at all. You may well be right.

But I'll be honest when many people of all genders rushed to judgement, and it's the lesbian who's described as the man hater who needs professional help, I'm gonna ask. Thanks for answering me.

705 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:36:36pm

re: #698 scrubjay

Your right. The quote was corrected later in the article. Sorry.

It is NOT corrected later in the article.

706 Enkidu90046  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:37:17pm

re: #693 Boondock St. Bender

the refs.used to be candy stripers? wow

HA!

707 Flyers1974  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:37:31pm

re: #696 Mauser

I meant "When in Islam, do as the Islamics do. When in the US, continue to do as the Islamics (et. al.) do out of respect for their culture."

According to the multiculturalists.

Who are they?

708 sagehen  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:37:36pm

re: #377 Throbert McGee

And I updinged *you* for your discernment! (Not everyone is willing to overlook my occasional compulsion to talk about how super-nifty penises are, and other little quirks of mine.)

Most of the women here (myself included) are in full agreement with you about how super-nifty penises are.

Feel free to talk about them often. And pictures of some of the best ones would not go amiss.

709 meeshlr  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:37:50pm

I've only attended one political rally and that was a small one in Canada. I did observe an anti-Israel rally here as well.

Do you think that it is possible for organizers to control a large protest? At the smallish anti-Israel rally, I certainly felt that the organizers could/should have eliminated the most disgusting signs (Hitler again). With a large rally, is this possible?

I would like to think that reasonable people would self-police but that obviously didn't happen at these Tea Party rallies.

I think that a majority of attendees just want their voices heard. How do we keep the insane from obscuring the sanity?

710 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:38:14pm

re: #702 ggt

Jefferson could not maintain his lifestyle without his slaves. He was in deep debt and couldn't free his slaves if he wanted to. This was a big conflict with his vision that he never seemed to resolve.

His slaves were collateral.

711 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:38:19pm

re: #697 jaunte

Wrong photo:

But it turns out the photo is more than 10 years old, apparently taken during a 1997 Promise Keepers rally.
[Link: www.politifact.com...]

Another group that I'm glad has kinda petered out...

712 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:39:11pm

re: #638 Killgore Trout

What have the Romans ever done for us?

[Video]

I knew it was going to be that vid!

713 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:39:52pm

re: #700 Charles

The racists at VDARE: VDARE.com: Blog Articles » Little Green Footballs Attacks The Other McCain

They were attacking Paul Belien and his Flemings for excessive whiteness–which they can’t help, they were born that way.

Excessive whiteness! Wow.

714 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:39:55pm

re: #668 SanFranciscoZionist

And then I'll understand his weird-ass ideas about race and slavery?

Yes, you would. It was a staple of humanity at the time. Perhaps if you remembered that while slavery was predominantly white/black in the Americas, it was a natural state of humanity in all of early human history, and not simply based on race. That was just a convenient marker.

Do you, for example, think that there was no slavery between blacks in Africa? Who do you think caught and sold slaves for transport to the Americas?

If I were to make an excuse, so to speak, I would say that it was Western Civilization that first made the practice abhorrent, even as it is today lambasted for having supposedly created it, by those ignorant of any history, let alone their own.

715 jaunte  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:40:07pm

re: #700 Charles

They claim that you attacked the Vlaams Belang for excessive whiteness, and RS McCain for being a white Southerner? Transparent rot.

716 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:40:40pm

re: #713 Sharmuta

Excessive whiteness! Wow.

Vdare, still racist after all these years.

717 Chuckc  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:41:24pm

With all do respect, I am offended by this. I don't post comments but I read here every day. This video is clearly propaganda featuring cherry-picked individuals from a massive turn out of protestors. I don't understand why people are painting a broad-brush stereotype regarding "tea parties" and the 9.12 march on the capitol. My wife and I have participated in the tax day tea party and we also travelled to D.C. this past weekend to participate in the protest. We are neither racists nor Ron Paul supporters. We denounce any reference to nazis or hitler in regard to our government, politicians or citizens.

We spent most of the day at Peace Circle on Saturday and I truly saw very few signs that made such reference, but winced when I did. I did not attend the protest to police other attendants' messages, however I did make a snarky comment to LaRouche regarding their poster of Obama with a hitler mustache. I did attend knowing there would be fringe elements present that may taint the overall message of the people attending. But some of the blanket assertions I am seeing at LGF are offending me because I was there and I do not stand for or support any of these viewpoints being scrutinized. I was there because I fear the direction our country is moving. I began to evaluate this direction while George Bush was still in office.

I no longer consider myself a republican. But I also protest the suggestion that I may be racist, a "nirther" or evangelical extremist.

I am an American. I am a believer of free speech. And it scares the hell me to see that I may be prejudiced here at LGF even though I usually don't comment.

I'm not flouncing. I want to stay here. I just wanted to be heard.

718 MisterCookie  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:41:32pm

I love how the rightists think that by emulating the left's insanity they can be successful - the left didn't win elections until they could sweep their lunatic fringe under the rug. Without the media on their side, there's no way the Republicans can get away with the same.

719 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:41:43pm

re: #686 Mauser

Actually, the point of that is you can insert any other culture for "Rome" in the new wording. Try it with Islam and you'll see where we are today.

Don't get me started on Islam.

720 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:41:44pm

re: #709 meeshlr

Hi, meeshlr. The problem is the organizers are far-right kooks. When the organizers agree with the kooks in the crowd- they're not going to try to stop it.

721 Ojoe  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:41:50pm

re: #708 sagehen

You make a good point.

722 avanti  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:42:00pm

re: #657 Charles

You idiot. Do you realize you're quoting what the Parks Dept. said about OBAMA'S INAUGURATION?

I suspect you do know, and you're just posting that crap here to try to trick people.

Someone may want to correct the other blogs too.:)

Quote from wrong event..

723 MPH  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:42:01pm

Allahpundit posted this warning piece by John Avlon -- who I incidentally discovered through the PJTV symposium at CPAC this year.

[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

Republicans are now benefiting from the tens of thousands of angry white people who descended on Washington over the weekend—but they’ve tapped into something ugly that they can’t control, says John Avlon.


..and Allah is being called a clown by his HA commenters for posting it.

724 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:42:08pm

re: #709 meeshlr

I've only attended one political rally and that was a small one in Canada. I did observe an anti-Israel rally here as well.

Do you think that it is possible for organizers to control a large protest? At the smallish anti-Israel rally, I certainly felt that the organizers could/should have eliminated the most disgusting signs (Hitler again). With a large rally, is this possible?

I would like to think that reasonable people would self-police but that obviously didn't happen at these Tea Party rallies.

I think that a majority of attendees just want their voices heard. How do we keep the insane from obscuring the sanity?

The sane need to stay far away from the insane. People who plan to attend an event, need to learn about the people hosting and make sure thay are also sane. If an event is sanely organized, the crazies will feel less welcome.

725 scrubjay  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:42:10pm

re: #705 Charles
In the comments section:

Moderator's note: Thank you. We're on it. Somebody cut and pasted the wrong quote and links. --Anton

I should have read it all the way before accepting it.

726 Kytan  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:42:44pm

Several lines from "Revolution" by The Beatles come to mind. Specifically the ones about destruction, wanting to see a plan, and how pictures of Chairman Mao won't help you make it with anyone.

You know it's gonna be alright.

727 MightySkip  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:43:01pm

re: #544 Sharmuta

If you start at the assumption that everyone single one of the people, or at least their board members or founders, are Paulians, Truthers or Birthers then you might make that conclusion. There are a lot of supporters listed at the 912.org site and that assumption you make simply doesn't hold water.

728 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:43:04pm

re: #722 avanti

Someone may want to correct the other blogs too.:)

Quote from wrong event..

It's beyond pathetic. They're all repeating a completely false quote.

729 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:43:06pm

re: #717 Chuckc

the folks that made you wince are the ones we're complaining about.

730 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:43:20pm

re: #720 Sharmuta

Hi, meeshlr. The problem is the organizers are far-right kooks. When the organizers agree with the kooks in the crowd- they're not going to try to stop it.

Can't we organize non-kook events? Might be a good counter.

731 MJ  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:43:24pm

re: #703 Enkidu90046

What is sad, is that this latest revelation about the HRW doesn't even surprise me.

Right.
The only thing a little surprising is how long it took HRW to realize that having a rabid collector of Nazi memorabilia might present something of a problem.

By the way, the NYT piece doesn't even tell it's readers what the significance of 88 is to neo-Nazis.

732 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:43:31pm

re: #691 SanFranciscoZionist

All roads lead there?

I finally remembered, Rome gave us the

arch

and the

dome.
733 Ojoe  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:43:33pm

re: #724 Dark_Falcon

I saw an artist's expansion of the 10 commandments once, and not many things were added but one of them was "Do Not Go Strange."

734 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:43:40pm

re: #723 MPH

Allahpundit posted this warning piece by John Avlon -- who I incidentally discovered through the PJTV symposium at CPAC this year.

[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]


..and Allah is being called a clown by his HA commenters for posting it.

The Hot Air Klan have been calling for Allahpundits head for a long time now. The way things are going they might just get that done.

735 meeshlr  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:44:06pm

re: #720 Sharmuta

So, sane people need to lead the charge instead of following along after the insane people and being drug down with them?

736 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:44:36pm

re: #730 TheMatrix31

Can't we organize non-kook events? Might be a good counter.

That would be better than this.

737 Flyers1974  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:44:37pm

ChuckC - LGF is not a government entity, so "free speech" is not an issue here.

738 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:44:46pm

re: #704 SanFranciscoZionist

I am not familiar with her at all. You may well be right.

But I'll be honest when many people of all genders rushed to judgement, and it's the lesbian who's described as the man hater who needs professional help, I'm gonna ask. Thanks for answering me.

Ms. Bruce is a radio commentator and a former head of the LA chapter of NOW, among other things. People with her level of access to the airwaves have a great responsibility to get it right the first time, or correct themselves publicly when they don't.
We are all a bunch of screwups, so can't fault someone for making a mistake.
Vociferous public condemnation of innocents should bear some public remonstrance, wouldn't you agree?

739 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:44:49pm

re: #717 Chuckc

I hear you. But I need to reply that the level of hate at the Tea Party was of such viciousness that it tainted the rally in its entirety.

740 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:44:57pm

re: #692 Dark_Falcon

For the next sports anniversary, can we bring back Pepsi throwback for the occasion? I really loved that stuff.

Coke

741 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:45:13pm

re: #709 meeshlr

I've only attended one political rally and that was a small one in Canada. I did observe an anti-Israel rally here as well.

Do you think that it is possible for organizers to control a large protest? At the smallish anti-Israel rally, I certainly felt that the organizers could/should have eliminated the most disgusting signs (Hitler again). With a large rally, is this possible?

I would like to think that reasonable people would self-police but that obviously didn't happen at these Tea Party rallies.

I think that a majority of attendees just want their voices heard. How do we keep the insane from obscuring the sanity?

Walk For Life might be one example to look at--pro-life groups have been doing demos for many years, and they seem to turn out a polished and respectable looking group.

742 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:45:35pm

re: #717 Chuckc

With all do respect, I am offended by this. I don't post comments but I read here every day.


I don't believe you read here every day, week, or month since registering in 2004, or you would not make such a dumbass comment.

743 JHW  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:45:42pm

re: #731 MJ

In this particular instance, the "88" has been explained as the caliber of the Flak gun, the famous 88mm. How sincere that is, I have no idea.

744 padikiller  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:45:50pm

How is "being armed" the same thing as "threatening violence"?

745 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:46:37pm

OK back from an evening of drinking with two astrophysicists an aerospace engineer and a classicist. All in all a great B-Day...

Now for a rant...

Our conversation turned to the video that Kilgore found, I was posting as people were congregating here, and I showed them the video...

Anyway, and pardon my shnozzeled frame of writing, but the question that gets seriously begged is how is it that people are that angry when they don't even know what they are angry about?

I am sure that there were some at the tea party who could put together a coherent sentence, but why would any thinking person go to such a thing?

I suppose the question really comes down to, "are they that stupid?" and the sad answer is yes.

I'm writing this somewhat seriously. I've hypothesized a lot about fear and hatred, but I haven't written the part about butt dumb. You know the part where it is obvious that you are dealing with credulous mean spirited morons? Ignoramuses and otherwise hateful followers who have never had an original thought in their lives...

Call this as elitist as you wish, but when I saw that woman going on about her grand children asking her what she did when America turned (and we know that means non-white, non-whacko religious to her) I thought dear G-d, she has grand children and she will be a part of their education.

Gahhh... The more people like her make sincere charges of forced sterilization programs, the more a dark, and very wrong side of my mind, wants to joke that perhaps somehow she intuits that she is crazy and hateful as well as stupid, and would be on the top of such a list...

Now of course, I do not believe that anyone should be sterilized, but the irony got to me.

746 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:46:40pm

re: #717 Chuckc

This video is clearly propaganda featuring cherry-picked individuals from a massive turn out of protestors.

It is absolutely NOT "cherry-picked." I found thousands of photos of disgusting and extreme signs, all over the internet.

Not everyone there was an extremist, that goes without saying. But an appallingly high number WERE.

747 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:47:11pm

re: #744 padikiller

How is "being armed" the same thing as "threatening violence"?

It would fall all under "fighting words."

748 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:47:58pm

re: #543 SanFranciscoZionist

Cat with history background/hobby?

history and german major. early american history.

749 cliffster  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:48:04pm

re: #728 Charles

It's beyond pathetic. They're all repeating a completely false quote.

And it's not like it wasn't a big crowd. Just run with what it was.

Talk about the large crowd for what it was, get attention = win. Tell everyone that there were 10,000,000,000,000 people there, look stupid = lose. Microcosm of the right's problem.

750 MPH  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:48:12pm

Allahpundit posted this warning piece by John Avlon -- who I incidentally discovered through the PJTV symposium at CPAC this year.

[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

Republicans are now benefiting from the tens of thousands of angry white people who descended on Washington over the weekend—but they’ve tapped into something ugly that they can’t control, says John Avlon.


..and Allah is being called a clown by his HA commenters for posting it.re: #723 MPH

But Republicans are playing a dangerous game. They are benefitting from all this anger in the short term, but they have tapped into something deep and ugly that they can’t control. Calling the president a communist or even Hitler is something far beyond simple incivility or street theater—it is an accusation that intentionally stirs the crazy pot. It is ultimately an incitement to violence.

751 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:48:23pm

re: #717 Chuckc

Not one speaker called out the Paulsters, Bircheres, Nirthers, Etc. though they were clearly in evidence. I may empathise with your message, but I cannot endorse the messengers obviously in command of this event. You were had.

752 MJ  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:48:30pm

re: #743 JHW

In this particular instance, the "88" has been explained as the caliber of the Flak gun, the famous 88mm. How sincere that is, I have no idea.

As a Neo-Nazi symbol

Eighty-eight is used as code among Neo-Nazis to identify each other.[2] H is the 8th letter of the alphabet, so 88 is taken to stand for HH which in turn means Heil Hitler.[3] For example, the number is used in the song "88 rock'n'roll band" by the neo-Nazi group Landser. The late convicted Order terrorist David Lane wrote "Fourteen Words" and 88 Precepts, and the numbers are often found in combination (1488, 14/88, etc.). This form of the number has inspired the naming of the groups Column 88, Unit 88, and White Legion 88.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

753 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:48:50pm

Oops, I think I just nullified my legal intent.

754 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:48:58pm

re: #751 The Shadow Do

Not one speaker called out the Paulsters, Bircheres, Nirthers, Etc. though they were clearly in evidence. I may empathise with your message, but I cannot endorse the messengers obviously in command of this event. You were had.

The speakers WERE the Paulians and Birthers.

755 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:49:07pm

re: #736 Sharmuta

That would be better than this.

I think we should try then. People who are fed up with the administration and Congress' bullshit who are also fed up with the radicalization of existing parties can join in. Hard to moderate/control though, I guess.

756 jaunte  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:49:28pm

re: #744 padikiller

How is "being armed" the same thing as "threatening violence"?

I'm sure if you try it next time you're at traffic court, the nice men will explain.

757 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:49:47pm

re: #555 Naso Tang

This concept of a movement by the people, but without leadership; where does it come from? Seems somehow familiar...I don't know...

Sounds like an anarchist movement.

758 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:49:47pm

re: #744 padikiller

How is "being armed" the same thing as "threatening violence"?

This time we came unarmed assumes that next time you will be armed. That is a threat in any lexicon. Your asking of this question is what was meant by butt dumb.

759 JHW  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:50:41pm

re: #752 MJ

Yes I knew that long ago. This guy has apparently written books about the 88 Flak gun, apparently a relative was a gun crew member on one. I haven't verified the information.

760 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:50:46pm

re: #743 JHW

In this particular instance, the "88" has been explained as the caliber of the Flak gun, the famous 88mm. How sincere that is, I have no idea.

The 88mm AA Gun is pretty famous to WWII history buffs. That said, when the far-right uses the number '88'. it is always used in the 'Heil Hitler' sense.

761 Flyers1974  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:51:13pm

re: #718 MisterCookie

I love how the rightists think that by emulating the left's insanity they can be successful - the left didn't win elections until they could sweep their lunatic fringe under the rug. Without the media on their side, there's no way the Republicans can get away with the same.

Did the right emulate the left? Attacks on Bill Clinton were pretty over the top and the internet in 1992, etc..., was not what it is today. I don't think either side emulates the other.

762 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:51:15pm

re: #743 JHW

yes the german flak gun was famous as the "88"
for those not in the know 88 aslo refers to adolf hitler H being the 8th letter of the alphabet thus 88=HH (heil hitler) huge in the prison and white supremisest circles

763 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:51:29pm

re: #760 Dark_Falcon

The 88mm AA Gun is pretty famous to WWII history buffs. That said, when the far-right uses the number '88'. it is always used in the 'Heil Hitler' sense.

And those 88s killed thousands of our men. G-d forbid we show respect for our fallen.

764 The Shadow Do  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:51:31pm

re: #754 Charles

The speakers WERE the Paulians and Birthers.

Precisely the point I was trying to make...poorly

765 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:51:45pm

re: #730 TheMatrix31

Can't we organize non-kook events? Might be a good counter.

Kooks are attracted to protests like flies to shit. As soon as they hear about one, they put on their circus clothes, tool up their vomitous signs, and hit the road.

And it's kinda hard to tell all the non-kooks about it without at least a few kooks hearing of it - and telling all the others.

How do you keep them out? Hire strong arm security? That'll getcha some diststeful Youtube videos posted, as well.

766 Flyers1974  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:51:53pm

re: #760 Dark_Falcon

The 88mm AA Gun is pretty famous to WWII history buffs. That said, when the far-right uses the number '88'. it is always used in the 'Heil Hitler' sense.

And better at killing tanks than planes.

767 Enkidu90046  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:51:55pm

re: #743 JHW

In this particular instance, the "88" has been explained as the caliber of the Flak gun, the famous 88mm. How sincere that is, I have no idea.

Or perhaps it is a double entendre.

768 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:52:21pm

re: #744 padikiller

How is "being armed" the same thing as "threatening violence"?

When I was living in Virginia, it was explained to me that while technically "Open Carry" was legal, if you walked around Fairfax County with a gun strapped to your hip, even if you never touched it, they'd bust you for any number of things, ranging from Brandishing to Incitement to Riot. It struck me as being bogus, but on the other hand, liberals DO get really worked up at the sight of a gun, and even if you beat the rap, it would be costly. the warning was well taken.

769 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:52:26pm

The point stands. You bring a sign that reads "next time we come armed" you're alluding to an intent to engage in future armed violence.

Go ahead an threaten the Republic. I know which side I'll stand. It will be with the Republic and not with a bunch of ignorant goons.

770 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:52:31pm

re: #767 Enkidu90046

Or perhaps it is a double entendre.

in bed?

771 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:52:50pm

re: #745 LudwigVanQuixote

I suppose the question really comes down to, "are they that stupid?" and the sad answer is yes.

Never underestimate the power of the stupid.

Also the uninformed - reference some of the interviews with voters and the Penn & Teller episode with the Ban Di-Hydrogen Monoxide petition.

People that you would expect to know better - don't always.

Happy Birthday!

G'nite.

772 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:52:52pm

re: #745 LudwigVanQuixote

OK back from an evening of drinking with two astrophysicists an aerospace engineer and a classicist. All in all a great B-Day...

Now for a rant...

Our conversation turned to the video that Kilgore found, I was posting as people were congregating here, and I showed them the video...

I updinged you for this- exposing some people to LGF. Happy Birthday!

773 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:53:13pm

re: #765 Salamantis

Kooks are attracted to protests like flies to shit. As soon as they hear about one, they put on their circus clothes, tool up their vomitous signs, and hit the road.

And it's kinda hard to tell all the non-kooks about it without at least a few kooks hearing of it - and telling all the others.

How do you keep them out? Hire strong arm security? That'll getcha some diststeful Youtube videos posted, as well.

Yeah, thats why I hate protests and protesting in general. Fucking pointless.

774 avanti  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:53:21pm

re: #728 Charles

It's beyond pathetic. They're all repeating a completely false quote.

Over 100 blogs so far if I counted correctly. No matter how many time you repeat a lie, it's still a lie.

775 Gus  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:53:55pm

The POTUS comes first. The POTUS is Barack Obama. Deal with it. He was elected by the American people. Take your bullshit to the tavern.

776 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:54:14pm

re: #714 Naso Tang

Yes, you would. It was a staple of humanity at the time. Perhaps if you remembered that while slavery was predominantly white/black in the Americas, it was a natural state of humanity in all of early human history, and not simply based on race. That was just a convenient marker.

Do you, for example, think that there was no slavery between blacks in Africa? Who do you think caught and sold slaves for transport to the Americas?

If I were to make an excuse, so to speak, I would say that it was Western Civilization that first made the practice abhorrent, even as it is today lambasted for having supposedly created it, by those ignorant of any history, let alone their own.

Tell Sam Adams how it was a 'staple of humanity at the time'. Then duck. Better yet, tell Abigail Adams, while she was out hoeing her potatoes, which Jefferson never did in his life. Then duck faster.

I'm familiar with the history of the slave trade, and I am not all freeeked out about it, or under the impression it was a solely black and white phenomenon. But the conflict going on in Jefferson's head was impressive, even for the day, and I am sharp enough to realize that I can't go there. I can observe, but the complexities of his passion for freedom, his convoluted ideas about race, his peculiar layers of ideas about interracial sex, and his baffling hopes for the future are a lot of take on. No amount of cell-phone deprivation is going to get me there.

777 outsidephilly  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:54:16pm

re: #745 LudwigVanQuixote

Happy B day!

778 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:54:21pm

re: #771 Van Helsing

Never underestimate the power of the stupid.

Also the uninformed - reference some of the interviews with voters and the Penn & Teller episode with the Ban Di-Hydrogen Monoxide petition.

People that you would expect to know better - don't always.

Happy Birthday!

G'nite.

Thank you, and I assure you, looking at the TV, it would be impossible for me to deny the extent of the stupid.

779 Fred72  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:54:25pm

re: #179 rokbassist

I think Obama is more a Marxist than a fascist, but instituting straight-out Marxism won't fly, so he works the system by taking over industry through regulation rather than direct ownership, a la Chavez.

You're twisting the definition of Marxism in a hugely disingenuous way in an attempt to make it apply.

One of the hallmarks of Marxism is anti-capitalism. Obama disapoints the extreme left by supporting the bailout of some of the biggest capitalist institutions on the planet, and yet you point this out as Marxism with no apparent sense of irony.

Obama gives a speech about the power of education, correctly recognizing that in the post-industrial economy, our country's strength lies in its technology and innovation. Do you expect him to lead an uprising of under-educated factory workers any day now?

Maxism is built on the foundation of class struggle and class warfare; Obama is perhaps the most centrist president we've had in 40 years. Destroying the bourgeois is the last thing you should expect. Heck, he just gave the middle class a tax cut.

780 Gabriel Hanna  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:54:31pm

@#689, #659:

this sick fuck uses the screen name "Flak88" and we all know what "88" stand for...

Some of us don't appear to.

"Flak 88" was the famous anti-air/anti-air gun. "88" in this case means "88 mm", the bore size of the gun, not "Heil Hitler".

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The German forces employed the 88 extensively in World War II, not only in its original role as an anti-aircraft gun, where it performed well, but also as an anti-tank gun.

The German Condor Legion made extensive use of the FlaK 88 in the Spanish Civil War, where its usefulness as an anti-tank weapon and a general artillery piece exceeded its role as an anti-aircraft weapon. Erwin Rommel also used the 88 as an anti-tank weapon, first in France and later in North Africa. His timely use of the gun to blunt the British counterattack at Arras ended any hope of a breakout from the blitzkrieg encirclement of May 1940. In Libya and Egypt, he lured British tanks into traps by baiting them with apparently retreating panzers. When the British pursued, concealed 88s picked them off at ranges far beyond those of the 2-pdr and 6-pdr guns of the British tanks. The British 8th Army eventually learned to coordinate their heavy artillery with their ground advances, destroying the relatively immobile 88s in their emplacements once they revealed their positions.

The weapon saw continuous use on the Soviet Front. The appearance of the outstanding T-34 shocked the German tank crews, whose 37 mm and 50 mm tank guns could only penetrate the Soviet tank's armour at extremely close range.

The less open terrain in Italy and Northern France was less suitable for the 88. The success of the 88 caused the Allies to take steps to defend against it in new tank design. Stopgap measures included adding more armour, or even using sandbags, to try to defeat the 88's projectiles. The Germans took advantage of this effective design in the armament of vehicles such as the Tiger tank and the Elefant tank destroyer (with an 88 mm Pak 43/2 anti-tank gun).

In the civil war in Yugoslavia various FlaK guns were used mainly by the naval artillery of the Yugoslav People's Army (JNA).

The FlaK 36 was briefly issued in January 1945 to the American 7th Army as captured weapons.

Any wargamer knows this stuff.

Granted that Garlasco guy is an anti-Semite, but I can tell that by what he does for Human Rights Watch.

781 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:54:42pm

re: #772 Sharmuta

I updinged you for this- exposing some people to LGF. Happy Birthday!

Thank you!

782 Flyers1974  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:54:50pm

re: #745 LudwigVanQuixote

...how is it that people are that angry when they don't even know what they are angry about?

This was my problem with the tea parties before any of this recent stuff came to light.

783 Van Helsing  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:55:07pm

re: #760 Dark_Falcon

The 88mm AA Gun is pretty famous to WWII history buffs. That said, when the far-right uses the number '88'. it is always used in the 'Heil Hitler' sense.

I was pathetically uninformed. My daughter was born in 1988 and I used the year as part of my email address.

Did not have a clue until someone pointed it out to me.

784 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:55:29pm

re: #763 LudwigVanQuixote

And those 88s killed thousands of our men. G-d forbid we show respect for our fallen.

Indeed. I once happen to meet a man who had piloted a B-17 during WWII. He was shot down by fire from 88mm FlaK guns. The 88mm was the German's most numerous heavy AA (though not the heaviest, as Germany also fielded 105 and 128mm AA guns). It was also used as the main gun on the famous Panzer Mark VI Tiger tank.

785 Enkidu90046  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:56:17pm

re: #770 ggt

in bed?

Yes I am... and watching MNF too...

786 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:56:54pm

re: #774 avanti

Over 100 blogs so far if I counted correctly. No matter how many time you repeat a lie, it's still a lie.

"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." -- Mark Twain

787 JHW  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:57:11pm

What's that fellows name, I'll try to look it up and see if he wrote books, had relatives, whatever, on the 88 guns.

788 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:57:31pm

re: #738 Capitalist Tool

Ms. Bruce is a radio commentator and a former head of the LA chapter of NOW, among other things. People with her level of access to the airwaves have a great responsibility to get it right the first time, or correct themselves publicly when they don't.
We are all a bunch of screwups, so can't fault someone for making a mistake.
Vociferous public condemnation of innocents should bear some public remonstrance, wouldn't you agree?

Absolutely, but that's not what I'm responding to. I think she should apologize if she was inappropriate. There's some baggage that goes with the prase 'man-hating', that's all.

789 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:57:58pm

re: #782 Flyers1974

...how is it that people are that angry when they don't even know what they are angry about?

This was my problem with the tea parties before any of this recent stuff came to light.

A great point. If you have concerns about health insuruance OK - so does everyone, on both sides... But it is not something to take to the streets over.

I mean under what circumstances is it normal to see wary citizens toting lots of heat...

A) Invasion from Mars
B) zombie apocalypse
C) the return of disco
D) health insurance reform?

790 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:58:27pm

re: #784 Dark_Falcon

Indeed. I once happen to meet a man who had piloted a B-17 during WWII. He was shot down by fire from 88mm FlaK guns. The 88mm was the German's most numerous heavy AA (though not the heaviest, as Germany also fielded 105 and 128mm AA guns). It was also used as the main gun on the famous Panzer Mark VI Tiger tank.

and it was a monster in an anti-infantry role as well.

791 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:59:10pm

re: #757 Slumbering Behemoth

Sounds like an anarchist movement.

Shh. Don't go and give people ideas.

792 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:59:14pm

re: #745 LudwigVanQuixote

How stupid all those people are. How brilliant you and your friends are.
Is that what I should get from that or am I as drunk as you and likewise missing the point?

As far as that woman believing all manner of horrid things about possible consequences of Obama-care such as forced sterilization, etc.- she may have reason for concern.
Have you read about the history of Obama's "Science Czar" John Holdren?
What about Obama's Health care advisor Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel's comments about the responsibility of health care professionals is to the greater good of society rather than to the individual patient?

793 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:59:30pm

re: #777 outsidephilly

Happy B day!

Thank you!

794 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 9:59:34pm

re: #789 LudwigVanQuixote

A great point. If you have concerns about health insuruance OK - so does everyone, on both sides... But it is not something to take to the streets over.

I mean under what circumstances is it normal to see wary citizens toting lots of heat...

A) Invasion from Mars
B) zombie apocalypse
C) the return of disco
D) health insurance reform?

c) return of disco

795 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:00:09pm

new thread?

796 outsidephilly  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:00:13pm

re: #789 LudwigVanQuixote

A great point. If you have concerns about health insuruance OK - so does everyone, on both sides... But it is not something to take to the streets over.

I mean under what circumstances is it normal to see wary citizens toting lots of heat...

A) Invasion from Mars
B) zombie apocalypse
C) the return of disco
D) health insurance reform?

return of disco!

797 JHW  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:00:22pm

re: #787 JHW

I should note, my Dad was in the 8th Air Force as a B17 crewman, WW2, and he hated that gun and the cause that created it.

798 Flyers1974  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:01:49pm

re: #789 LudwigVanQuixote

A great point. If you have concerns about health insuruance OK - so does everyone, on both sides... But it is not something to take to the streets over.

I mean under what circumstances is it normal to see wary citizens toting lots of heat...

A) Invasion from Mars
B) zombie apocalypse
C) the return of disco
D) health insurance reform?

There was some pretty o.k. disco. The BeeGees for one. I sure there was others. Just can't think of any more at the moment.

799 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:02:19pm

re: #788 SanFranciscoZionist

Absolutely, but that's not what I'm responding to. I think she should apologize if she was inappropriate. There's some baggage that goes with the prase 'man-hating', that's all.

Again, I stand by my statement, which was based on several instances of rhetoric which led me to believe that she is afflicted.
She is not alone.

800 Jack Burton  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:02:21pm

re: #773 TheMatrix31

Yeah, thats why I hate protests and protesting in general. Fucking pointless.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. As long as you have the right to vote, protests are simply public temper tantrums. They are for hippies who can't get what they want via legitimate civil methods in a constitutional representative republic to piss and moan and make a scene.

801 Enkidu90046  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:02:24pm

re: #780 Gabriel Hanna

I am familiar with the 88mm flak gun... but when a guy who clearly despises Israel, is clearly anti-semitic, seems pretty proud of his WW2 german military heritage, and is obsessed with Nazi memorabilia uses it, I have a suspicion that it might symbolize something more than JUST the anti-aircraft weapon. Call me crazy...

802 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:02:37pm

re: #790 LudwigVanQuixote

and it was a monster in an anti-infantry role as well.

The 88 had a well designed fragmentation shell. If set with a contact fuse, it could spray shrapnel 30 feet. It also fired the standard smoke and incendiary rounds that most artillery pieces us.

803 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:03:12pm

re: #745 LudwigVanQuixote

Now for your main point:

I suppose the question really comes down to, "are they that stupid?" and the sad answer is yes.

I'm writing this somewhat seriously. I've hypothesized a lot about fear and hatred, but I haven't written the part about butt dumb. You know the part where it is obvious that you are dealing with credulous mean spirited morons? Ignoramuses and otherwise hateful followers who have never had an original thought in their lives...

First I would say that sadly, we will always have the poor, and we will always have the stupid. The best we can hope for is to minimize both as best we can.

What becomes a danger in my mind is the ignorance mixed with anger fueled by extremists from either side of the political divide. At this time, it's the right wing going crazy- that was to be expected to an extent, I suppose. What's breathtaking, however, is the scope and speed at which it's spread into the mainstream, and the number of people willing to make excuses for it even though they know this isn't good...

The crypto-fascist mask slipping on the counter-jihad was an early warning sign. We can see now that the ability of others to put up with stink is far too prevalent.

804 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:03:34pm
805 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:03:41pm

re: #570 Gus 802

A Music Video Tribute To Teabagger Hate Signs


[Video]

I am no fan of Obama, nor the current Dem. leadership, but that asshole at the 1:06 mark can go fuck himself right in his neck.

806 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:04:19pm

re: #792 Capitalist Tool

How stupid all those people are. How brilliant you and your friends are.
Is that what I should get from that or am I as drunk as you and likewise missing the point?

As far as that woman believing all manner of horrid things about possible consequences of Obama-care such as forced sterilization, etc.- she may have reason for concern.
Have you read about the history of Obama's "Science Czar" John Holdren?
What about Obama's Health care advisor Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel's comments about the responsibility of health care professionals is to the greater good of society rather than to the individual patient?

Yes, yes it is elitist of me to not be as credulous as a terrified five year old just because Beck says boo...

Yes yes, I am a terrible elitist...

OK clue phone, anyone who believes that shit about death panels and forced sterilization in that bill, is dumb as a brick. It is the simple truth. So what about Holdren... Do you think for a moment that if there were any language like that actually in the bull, only Fox would lying to stir up the riff raff, or do you think they, the MSM all the GOP and most Dems would be screaming bloody murder openly and calling for an impeachment?

This post of yours is also what is called butt dumb.

807 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:04:24pm

re: #798 Flyers1974

There was some pretty o.k. disco. The BeeGees for one. I sure there was others. Just can't think of any more at the moment.

I like disco.

808 Flyers1974  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:04:27pm

re: #792 Capitalist Tool

How stupid all those people are. How brilliant you and your friends are.
Is that what I should get from that or am I as drunk as you and likewise missing the point?

As far as that woman believing all manner of horrid things about possible consequences of Obama-care such as forced sterilization, etc.- she may have reason for concern.
Have you read about the history of Obama's "Science Czar" John Holdren?
What about Obama's Health care advisor Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel's comments about the responsibility of health care professionals is to the greater good of society rather than to the individual patient?

Forced sterilization is a sane concern?

809 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:04:32pm

Go ahead, ask me if I saw that one coming.

810 sagehen  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:05:13pm

re: #505 Mauser

You Promote the general welfare by providing an environment where everyone can prosper. To help an individual though, you need to take something from someone else, and in the end, redistribution really is a Zero sum game. Negative sum, actually, once you figure in the losses.

No it isn't.

The interstate highways (yay Eisenhower!! My favorite pres) cost a whole lot of money; it made a whole lot of construction jobs, and bought a lot of concrete and steel that meant more jobs, and was paid for by taxing people who already had jobs, and borrowing too -- and in the end we had a highway system that added so much value that it more than paid for itself.

We also "took" from taxpayers to fund the space program, which doesn't look like it makes any money at all. Except that now there's satellites, and microchips, and insulation, and water reclamation, and a zillion other inventions and discoveries that went into open-source patents and spurred so much growth it more than paid for itself.

Redistribution is any *but* zero-sum; if we redistribute through cleverly thought-through channels.

(and pssst! we gave a bunch of money to *other countries* in the Marshall Plan, without asking for anything back; countries who just a few years before we'd been at each other's throats. And indirectly, we got back way more than we gave.)

811 Jack Burton  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:05:23pm

re: #804 padikiller

812 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:05:25pm

re: #803 Sharmuta

Now for your main point:

First I would say that sadly, we will always have the poor, and we will always have the stupid. The best we can hope for is to minimize both as best we can.

What becomes a danger in my mind is the ignorance mixed with anger fueled by extremists from either side of the political divide. At this time, it's the right wing going crazy- that was to be expected to an extent, I suppose. What's breathtaking, however, is the scope and speed at which it's spread into the mainstream, and the number of people willing to make excuses for it even though they know this isn't good...

The crypto-fascist mask slipping on the counter-jihad was an early warning sign. We can see now that the ability of others to put up with stink is far too prevalent.

Well said in all points. That is why this is scary. Stupid scared people do stupid things.

813 Wendya  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:05:48pm

re: #667 Noam Sayin'

Amazing tornado pics

I'd hate to have been in that patrol car in the first shot.

814 lostlakehiker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:06:29pm

re: #545 Throbert McGee

Well said, only -- it's not just about "karma" or "sin"; it's about the effect on the culture at large. I certainly wouldn't want to live in a society where pretty much everyone agreed that personhood begins at conception and that if a pregnant woman who doesn't want to be pregnant takes RU-486 (which kills the embryo while it's still at a very early stage in development, albeit well past the "mass of undifferentiated cells" stage), it's morally the same thing as though she suffocated her baby with a scarf after it was born.

But on the other hand, I would be just as unwilling to live in a society where a viable human fetus can be electively killed with no sense of remorse and shame, as just another medical procedure, and with less compassion than any normal child instinctively shows to a writhing, pink little hatchling bird that's fallen from the nest.

That's the trouble with "partial birth" abortion. The majority of these are conducted on near-term fetuses, and to top it off, the fetus is first delivered*, then killed.

*breech delivery. All but the head is delivered. At this point, a successful complete delivery would be a cakewalk. The mother is past the time of doubt and crisis. All will be well, with another couple of easy pushes.

But, instead, in a partial birth abortion, you kill the fetus/baby. There isn't even the excuse that it saves the mother the bother and danger of going through delivery. That's an accomplished fact from the medical perspective of burden and danger to the mother.

Partial birth abortions are not in the same category as other abortions. They're abortions by a delicacy of language, not because that's what they really are.

815 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:07:14pm

re: #809 Charles

Go ahead, ask me if I saw that one coming.

Charles, did you see that one coming?

816 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:07:23pm

re: #809 Charles

Go ahead, ask me if I saw that one coming.

OK, did you? Was it the down-dinger?

817 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:07:39pm

re: #815 SanFranciscoZionist

Charles, did you see that one coming?

Why, yes. I did.

818 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:07:57pm

re: #814 lostlakehiker

"All will be well, with another couple of easy pushes."

You push and tell ME how easy it is!

WTF?

819 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:09:09pm

re: #811 ArchangelMichael

Is that from the first episode of BG?

820 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:09:32pm

re: #818 ggt

"All will be well, with another couple of easy pushes."

You push and tell ME how easy it is!

WTF?

That is called a pre-rationalization for violence. A grievance is invented in order to pre justify hateful actions. It is also a threat display. All in all very very Palestinian.

821 Chuckc  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:09:53pm
#742 - I don't believe you read here every day, week, or month since registering in 2004, or you would not make such a dumbass comment.

I see. I have more recently only read the entries by Charles and not the comments. Please forgive me for my dumbass intrusion. I use to enjoy all of the comments related to terrorism and the FNDT until I realized how much time I was spending on that versus work and time with my family.

#746 - It is absolutely NOT "cherry-picked."

Thank you Charles for your response. But I would be willing to bet the interviewer removed some intelligent responses to his questions. I spent a lot of time on Saturday speaking to people around me. Most of which were much more educated than the ones making an appearance in the video.

Please understand that I have always appreciated what you have done here. This is the first site I visit everyday because I know you will provide me with valuable information that is not available on other sites on the web.

But even now after speaking out I am feeling more isolated from your community.

822 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:10:41pm

re: #820 LudwigVanQuixote

That is called a pre-rationalization for violence. A grievance is invented in order to pre justify hateful actions. It is also a threat display. All in all very very Palestinian.

Oops misread, I thought we were talking about a tea party sign... sorry all...

823 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:11:01pm

re: #810 sagehen

Public Works are not Welfare. But they do fit with what I said about providing an environment where people can prosper.

Redistribution is the government taxing us so they can cut someone a check, producing nothing directly.

824 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:12:41pm

re: #806 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, yes it is elitist of me to not be as credulous as a terrified five year old just because Beck says boo...

Yes yes, I am a terrible elitist...

OK clue phone, anyone who believes that shit about death panels and forced sterilization in that bill, is dumb as a brick. It is the simple truth. So what about Holdren... Do you think for a moment that if there were any language like that actually in the bull, only Fox would lying to stir up the riff raff, or do you think they, the MSM all the GOP and most Dems would be screaming bloody murder openly and calling for an impeachment?

This post of yours is also what is called butt dumb.

Have you actually read anything attributed to those who have Obama's ear?
If all those guys are sitting around thinking about it and talking about it, and just because it isn't in the bill, doesn't mean it won't happen.

The thing that upsets most people and what I see as driving their anger, is that we are confronted with a bunch of social engineers who see only a smooth section of track ahead and these people mean to put the brakes on that train.

825 Flyers1974  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:12:49pm

re: #790 LudwigVanQuixote

and it was a monster in an anti-infantry role as well.

The Brits had a direct equivalent to the 88 but unlike the Germans, never used it against tanks and infantry. Which seems pretty weird given the 88's reputation in that regard.

826 Driftwood  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:13:44pm

re: #822 LudwigVanQuixote

thanks for clarifying. :D

827 esch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:14:08pm

re: #823 Mauser

Public Works are not Welfare. But they do fit with what I said about providing an environment where people can prosper.

Redistribution is the government taxing us so they can cut someone a check, producing nothing directly.

Bingo.

The government is there to protect the basic rights including equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes.

828 Jack Burton  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:14:08pm

re: #819 Dark_Falcon

Is that from the first episode of BG?

No it's from the second season, "Captain's Hand" I think. The one where the former Pegasus chief engineer is put in charge of the ship and he goes after 2 raptors into a painfully obvious trap and almost gets PWNed. Lee Adama tries to relieve him and almost gets arrested for mutiny.

829 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:14:37pm

re: #385 Killgore Trout

For those who missed it earlier...
The Unauthorized 9.12 Teabagger Tour

[Video]
Much insanity to be had.

Aw, FFS, the people interviewed don't sound any different than Alex Jones fans. Except, for the most part, they seem to be Glenn Beck fans.

830 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:15:07pm

bbiab

831 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:15:33pm

re: #828 ArchangelMichael

No it's from the second season, "Captain's Hand" I think. The one where the former Pegasus chief engineer is put in charge of the ship and he goes after 2 raptors into a painfully obvious trap and almost gets PWNed. Lee Adama tries to relieve him and almost gets arrested for mutiny.

Every time I think of the Peggy's last stand I think of the best SF I ever saw on TV

832 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:16:04pm

re: #828 ArchangelMichael

No it's from the second season, "Captain's Hand" I think. The one where the former Pegasus chief engineer is put in charge of the ship and he goes after 2 raptors into a painfully obvious trap and almost gets PWNed. Lee Adama tries to relieve him and almost gets arrested for mutiny.

Again, pity I didn't have nukes facing the Pegasus this past Saturday. I think I would have done better than the Cylons. >:D

833 lostlakehiker  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:16:07pm

re: #745 LudwigVanQuixote

OK back from an evening of drinking with two astrophysicists an aerospace engineer and a classicist. All in all a great B-Day...

Now for a rant...

Our conversation turned to the video that Kilgore found, I was posting as people were congregating here, and I showed them the video...

Anyway, and pardon my shnozzeled frame of writing, but the question that gets seriously begged is how is it that people are that angry when they don't even know what they are angry about?

I am sure that there were some at the tea party who could put together a coherent sentence, but why would any thinking person go to such a thing?

I suppose the question really comes down to, "are they that stupid?" and the sad answer is yes.

I'm writing this somewhat seriously. I've hypothesized a lot about fear and hatred, but I haven't written the part about butt dumb. You know the part where it is obvious that you are dealing with credulous mean spirited morons? Ignoramuses and otherwise hateful followers who have never had an original thought in their lives...

Call this as elitist as you wish, but when I saw that woman going on about her grand children asking her what she did when America turned (and we know that means non-white, non-whacko religious to her) I thought dear G-d, she has grand children and she will be a part of their education.

Gahhh... The more people like her make sincere charges of forced sterilization programs, the more a dark, and very wrong side of my mind, wants to joke that perhaps somehow she intuits that she is crazy and hateful as well as stupid, and would be on the top of such a list...

Now of course, I do not believe that anyone should be sterilized, but the irony got to me.


I bet these people are of average intelligence, with some on either side of that. The really dull wouldn't take any interest in abstractions like politics, and they wouldn't be comfortable trying to find their way through the subway or bus network to the demonstration. Most of us have almost zero contact with the bottom 10 or 20 percent of the bell curve, and it is easy to forget how hemmed in this unfortunate segment is by its limitations.

And one more observation...dull people are more likely to take their moral instruction as gospel. They aren't prone to enthusiasms about bad ideas. Harsh experience has taught them that taking up on somebody's witty suggestion that the basic rules are for fools and a man should strike out on his own is asking for trouble. So, to put it simply, dull people are seldom evil, and often good.

834 Jack Burton  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:16:09pm

re: #819 Dark_Falcon

And it was also the only episode I could find when I was looking that showed the "Radiological Alert: Inbound Nuclear Ordnance" on the screen.

835 nadnerb  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:17:36pm

The thing that really strikes me after watching this and listening to this small sampling of "stuff" is this:

People who voice threatening ideas to the government in this manner are not mainstream and are unbalanced and crazy.

Many people don't have clear thoughts on what it is they're mad about other than a general rage against Obama.

The folks who threaten to "water the tree of liberty" or use violence to remove elected leaders are dangerous to EVERYONE, left, right and in-between.

I want to ask the people threatening violence if they really want to go there. Do they really want to overthrow the government? Why can't we wait until 2010 and vote the bastards out? If the government is OVERTHROWN can they possibly imagine what our society would be like? They seem to think that things are so dire as to invoke a revolution. I personally do not want any form of health care that is currently being proposed, nor do I think cap and trade is good.

These people need to realize that BHO was elected by a majority and like it or not, that's the deal. Republicans chose to nominate the wrong guy, and lost, IMO.

Revolution is not the answer and these flames are unfortunately being fanned by jokers and dipshits. Revolution likely means chaos and armed violence in widespread manner. Do these assholes really want this?

836 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:18:52pm

re: #821 Chuckc

Don't take the insults of a comment so hard.
Stick around & read when you can.
Lots of people upset with American politics, right now.
Choose where you get your information.
This is a great site.

837 esch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:22:11pm

re: #835 nadnerb

Revolution is not the answer and these flames are unfortunately being fanned by jokers and dipshits. Revolution likely means chaos and armed violence in widespread manner. Do these assholes really want this?

Absolutely, some of them do.

But after seeing and hearing the contempt and vitriol from so many on the left over the years, I'm wondering how many of them secretly want it too.

This is not good. Obama is not competent to put out this fire.

838 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:23:51pm

re: #835 nadnerb

Quite Concur.

839 harpsicon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:27:13pm

re: #226 JHW

What is Fascism?

The link seems to be written from a far left point of view - for instance defining Franco's opponents as being for democracy... You should read Orwell on that, starting with "Homage to Catalonia". It was his real world education since the Republican side was taken over by the communists early on, and he realized that they were no better than the other team. And he was, spiritually at least, a socialist. Even so, he felt he had to believe his own eyes and to report the betrayal of democrats by the far left.

Personally, I think the problem is totalitarianism, or Statism, which all these things seem to devolve into. This is the real enemy of freedom and of the individual.

840 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:29:16pm

re: #839 harpsicon

The link seems to be written from a far left point of view - for instance defining Franco's opponents as being for democracy... You should read Orwell on that, starting with "Homage to Catalonia". It was his real world education since the Republican side was taken over by the communists early on, and he realized that they were no better than the other team. And he was, spiritually at least, a socialist. Even so, he felt he had to believe his own eyes and to report the betrayal of democrats by the far left.

Personally, I think the problem is totalitarianism, or Statism, which all these things seem to devolve into. This is the real enemy of freedom and of the individual.

On the matter of the Spanish Civil War, we agree. upding.

841 nadnerb  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:29:48pm

re: #837 esch

I can't imagine a "reconstructionist" post-revolutionary government left or right. What the hell would that be like? I just think this is an infantile way of acting out for many of these folks. The guys who bring guns to these rallies are the true believers.

842 Chuckc  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:30:28pm

re: #836 Floral Giraffe

Don't take the insults of a comment so hard.
Stick around & read when you can.
Lots of people upset with American politics, right now.
Choose where you get your information.
This is a great site.

I agree. I love LGF. But the tone regarding the protests strikes a nerve with me because I am passionate about this. I wish there was a solution for booting the crazy ideologues that attend these functions. I just get the impression that people are saying to stay home and don't bother attending because of the fringe elements involved. I'm too distressed to wait every two years to vote, knowing my liberal friends are going to cancel me out anyway.

Thank you for your message.

843 Mauser  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:34:02pm

re: #837 esch

My observation is that those agitating the most to start a revolution are the ones most likely to die first in one.

844 JHW  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:34:10pm

re: #839 harpsicon

Yes, I noticed it myself on the link,(South End Press) but the definition seems pretty accurate. I don't necessarily endorse the rest of the article. Your take on it seems pretty good to me.

845 esch  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:36:12pm

re: #841 nadnerb

Neither can I.

I think there would be a collective 'Ok, now what?'

846 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:36:33pm

re: #745 LudwigVanQuixote


Call this as elitist as you wish, but when I saw that woman going on about her grand children asking her what she did when America turned (and we know that means non-white, non-whacko religious to her) I thought dear G-d, she has grand children and she will be a part of their education.

Really, "we" know that? Because I definitely don't know what her motivations are, because I'm not a mind-reader and neither are you.

Look, for all you know, what she's actually riled up about is that this country is about to be "turned" into the Soviet States of America. Of course, the scare-talk about Obama being a secret Communist who wants to abolish private property and liquidate the kulaks is, in itself, a bunch of right-wing flatulence, BUT -- it's flatulence that has absolutely no inherent connection to racial bigotry or theocratic Christian hegemony.

For that matter, maybe the poor broad is an alien-abduction kook who's worried that Obama is being telepathically manipulated by carnivorous squid-beings from Aldeb-6, and that we're going to be "turned" into pod-replicants.

In any case, for you to project your own private speculations about her motives onto the woman is prejudiced and, if you want, "elitist". And to then say glibly "WE know what she's thinking" is just fucking tacky -- at least take ownership of your biases, dude.

847 sngnsgt  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:39:42pm

re: #481 The Shadow Do

Hockey = good stuff, pay no attention to that Hoosier guy...

Hey wants to make somethin' of it, drop the gloves! ;-)

848 Gabriel Hanna  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:44:31pm

@Enkidu #801

I am familiar with the 88mm flak gun... but when a guy who clearly despises Israel, is clearly anti-semitic, seems pretty proud of his WW2 german military heritage, and is obsessed with Nazi memorabilia uses it, I have a suspicion that it might symbolize something more than JUST the anti-aircraft weapon. Call me crazy...

I don't call you crazy, but I don't think you're being quite rational either.

A man can be an anti-Semite and NOT a follower of Hitler; can in fact hate Hitler as an enemy of humanity. This is where I am sure the vast majority of Western HRW activists are coming from.

I'm also pretty sure that in this case the "88" is a coincidence. There are literally tens of millions of people--mostly on the Left-- who think Israel is an evil, apartheid state, but there are only tens of thousand of neo-Nazis in the world, almost all on the Right. Work out the probability of an overlap, and I find the probability of coincidence to be greater.

At any rate, the GUN wasn't evil or anti-Semitic, any more than Fat Man and Little Boy were evil or racist.

I'm not defending his anti-Semitic or anti-Israel views, mind. I'm just saying that I think the odds are pretty low that he is a closet Nazi or even knew about what neo-Nazis use "88" for.

849 Throbert McGee  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 11:02:35pm

re: #814 lostlakehiker

That's the trouble with "partial birth" abortion. The majority of these are conducted on near-term fetuses, and to top it off, the fetus is first delivered*, then killed.

I may be wrong, but it's my understanding that the vast majority of "partial birth abortions" are non-elective -- i.e., there is a compelling medical reason to terminate the pregnancy, and it's simply not the case that the fetus is being killed for the mother's "convenience."

As grisly as the PBA procedure is, if it's done either to save the mother's life OR simply to avoid to avoid unnecessary risk to the mother's health in cases where the fetus has major abnormalities that would be lethal within a few weeks of birth if carried to term, then it's simply a sad thing, and not something that ought to be stigmatized, let alone legally banned.

On the other hand, I think that there are rational, non-religious reasons to morally stigmatize elective PBAs rather than being "non-judgmental" about them -- but as far as I know, such procedures are a rarity anyways.

850 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 11:18:25pm

re: #849 Throbert McGee

I may be wrong, but it's my understanding that the vast majority of "partial birth abortions" are non-elective -- i.e., there is a compelling medical reason to terminate the pregnancy, and it's simply not the case that the fetus is being killed for the mother's "convenience."

That's exactly right. Almost all (I'd say "all" but I don't know that for sure) "partial birth abortions" in this country are performed for compelling medical reasons.

This idea that late term abortions are performed just because the mother felt a little cranky that day is nothing more than dishonest propaganda circulated by anti-choice groups.

851 freedomplow  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 11:41:12pm

Here is the history of all LiveLeak videos posted by TalkingMonkey. The person that copied and uploaded this video from Youtube to LiveLeak.

For posterity's sake

852 SixDegrees  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 12:09:13am

re: #850 Charles

That's exactly right. Almost all (I'd say "all" but I don't know that for sure) "partial birth abortions" in this country are performed for compelling medical reasons.

This idea that late term abortions are performed just because the mother felt a little cranky that day is nothing more than dishonest propaganda circulated by anti-choice groups.

Just to be a pedant: there's no such thing as a "partial birth abortion" in medical parlance. This term was cooked up by anti-abortionists as yet another dishonest attempt at psychological manipulation.

For more, see here.

853 abbyadams  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 4:57:35am

re: #208 avanti

There was also a comment that suggested some LGF/DK debates. There are some moderate lefties that post at DK...that would be something I would like to see, a real debate without craziness.

854 mshaw  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:26:28am

I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove. Given the size of the crowds, surely it was possible to locate and video any number of examples of extremism and kookiness.

If I didn't know better, I'd say that the intent here was to conflate those examples with the Tea Party / anti-Obamacare movement as a whole.

855 Jooly  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:49:58am

Elective surgery is a planned surgery with the patient's consent. There may be a compelling medical reason to terminate a pregnancy but that is not the definition of non-elective. And the only situation I can think of where a mother's life is in danger and requires terminating a pregnancy is in severe eclampsia and with some types of cancers. Don't claim the other side plays fast and loose with words/definitions/facts and then go and do it yourselves.

856 Mattsky  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:14:02am

With very few exceptions the Tea Party protests have been peaceful protests.

857 theuglydougling  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:23:54am

Wow, I never had any idea that "88" was a piece of neo-nazi symbolism. I had to look it up just to see how or why. This reminds me of dopey rumors I heard about the band "311" and how they are supposedly racist because "11" corresponds with "K"...and you can figure out the rest. Any time I think of "88" the first thing that pops into my head is a piano, and now that's tainted by this nazi crap.

858 MPH  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:28:52am

Bad craziness on the HA comments section:

[Link: hotair.com...]

859 rasqual  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:36:28am

re: #811 ArchangelMichael

I for one am glad that neither the space program nor the interstate highway system were rushed through as quickly as the POTUS wanted earlier, flawed health bills moved to his desk this year.

Interesting that both were motivated by the Cold War, though.

860 MPH  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:38:35am

I like the argument that Hitler signs are justified because lots of democrats did just that to Bush for the past eight years.

861 rasqual  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:41:53am

re: #860 MPH

I don't think that's the argument. I think that's the retort to the assertion by BDS sufferers who once did that, that ODS sufferers should not do that.

There's a difference between a positive argument that something is OK, and a negative argument that the person saying it's not OK is being a hypocrite. In the latter case, displays of Hitler by the ODS sufferers could be construed as a visual reductio ad absurdum, with the indignant BDS sufferers harrumphing the obligatory QED. ;-)

862 Jooly  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:46:27am

Go ahead and ding me all you want. You are acting no different than the people you are whining about. However, that is not going to change the definitions of medical and legal terms nor the medical prognosis and treatment of certain medical conditions.

863 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:42:28am

I wonder if any of them appreciated the irony of the sign that read "STOP THE INSANITY"? Doubt it.

864 TennLion  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:10:02am

Hey, Charles. Like most of your work, but maybe you're pushing this? Please let me know what you think of this article in Reason magazine:

[Link: reason.com...]

865 jaunte  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:39:49am

re: #864 TennLion

I think Jesse Walker has got it wrong. Peaceful dissent is not being 'marginalized,' by pointing out that it's marginal behavior to show up at political protests carrying a gun or a sign comparing Obama to Hitler.
This, for instance, is a silly statement:
"The most formidable eliminationists have always been in the American center, not on the margins."
It's a complete inversion of reality.

866 Kobyashi Maru  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 12:42:50pm

As usual late to the party. This site is getting closer and closer to my views (or my views are changing).

Recipe for disaster: Abortions are legal in the US just as people have the right to call for legislation against the practice; it's a states right issue, IMHO... People who extol the virtues of those who murder doctors performing legal procedures; mix well with people who use Nazi symbols and imagery in any political discourse they dont like [tea parties, health care reform, protests for and against the wars we are involved in; bailouts;( just before Yitzak Rabin was murdered many references to Nazi symbols were used to de-legitimize him and his policy).

Mix in Limbaugh, Olbermann, Beck, Maddow, all climbing on each other to make points with their audiences (even 20 million listeners on radio cant elect a president...)

Stir in some racism (Mo Dowd said Joe Wilson meant ("You lie, Boy!"), a little paranoia about government, a lot of corporatism ( Ron Paul does have some things interesting to say from time to time is he would just stop hanging with those Jew haters) to protect their interests from any "reform" and you will end up with a bubbling cauldron of hate that is just waiting for the right spark to ignite and cook it; serve well done.

...I fear for the Republic

867 Kobyashi Maru  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 12:45:36pm

re: #860 MPH

But remember those were in the "Free Speech Zones" a mile away...can you imagine the howling if BHO started doing that?


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