Watch as the same people who loudly supported the Patriot Act for years suddenly start to find things wrong with it: Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions.
(Hat tip: karmic_inquisitor.)
2 |
Jetpilot1101 Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:39:47pm |
Seems like President Obama is supporting a lot of President Bush's policies. What happened to all the hope and CHANGE?
| 3 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:40:01pm |
And the people who loudly opposed the Patriot Act start to treat it like it's the best thing since sliced bread...
| 4 |
TheBad Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:40:37pm |
I know this is your site and all, but would you be at all interested in pointing out the massive hypocrisy of Obama on this point?
| 5 |
Guanxi88 Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:41:11pm |
I support this decision of POTUS Barry, the strike in Somalia the other day, the pirate-stand-off thing by the SEALS, and the unprecedented pace of missile and drone attacks outside the normal theatre of operations to get those who need to get got.
I misjudged him on the WoT; now, if I can just be surprised by his Israel/Arabs stance...
Still, good man.
| 6 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:41:26pm |
re: #3 TheMatrix31
And the people who loudly opposed the Patriot Act start to treat it like it's the best thing since sliced bread...
Not going to happen. The left wingers are very unhappy about Obama's failure to follow the left wing agenda.
| 7 |
Sharmuta Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:41:40pm |
re: #4 TheBad
Reality has a way of smacking people upside the head.
| 10 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:42:00pm |
re: #4 TheBad
I know this is your site and all, but would you be at all interested in pointing out the massive hypocrisy of Obama on this point?
You go right ahead. I don't feel like it right now.
| 11 |
Erik The Red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:42:05pm |
It not so easy once you have all the information. Is it 44?
| 12 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:42:41pm |
I've said it before and I'll say it again: as bad as people like me thought Bush was on civil liberties and the expansion of executive power, Obama is in some ways even worse.
Bush and Cheney were at least forthright about their theories on executive power. Obama typically says one thing and does another.
And regardless of what people think on this issue, I think we can all agree that the people who screamed about this under Bush, but are quiet now, and the people who had no problem with this under Bush but now suddenly are oh-so-concerned, are not serious people and should be condemned for their double standards and rank partisanship.
| 13 |
Phanatic Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:43:14pm |
And watch as people who opposed it for years are suddenly fine with it.
| 14 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:43:53pm |
re: #13 Phanatic
And watch as people who opposed it for years are suddenly fine with it.
Nope. Not going to happen. I guess you haven't noticed that the left wing is NOT happy at all with these moves by the Obama administration.
| 15 |
Jetpilot1101 Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:44:15pm |
re: #4 TheBad
I know this is your site and all, but would you be at all interested in pointing out the massive hypocrisy of Obama on this point?
I wouldn't call it hypocrisy. I would call it being intelligent enough to change one's positon once more information becomes available. I think it shows spine because in doing this, he is really putting his finger in the eye of the far left. I support Obama on this one. Good job Mr. President.
| 16 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:44:49pm |
You can almost feel the seething out there, can't you?
| 17 |
MisterCookie Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:45:18pm |
I'm starting to think we should run a baked pie as a candidate for 2012. They'd certainly be more competent than the hypocrites in both parties at this point.
| 18 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:45:27pm |
re: #4 TheBad
I know this is your site and all, but would you be at all interested in pointing out the massive hypocrisy of Obama on this point?
Uh, Obama is doing exactly what civil libertarians all knew he would do, ever since his FISA vote, long before he got elected.
This is yet another decision that proves Obama isn't the flaming lefty people enjoy imagining him as.
| 20 |
cronus Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:46:14pm |
re: #6 Charles
Not going to happen. The left wingers are very unhappy about Obama's failure to follow the left wing agenda.
Case and point:
Meet the New Boss
by: Ian Welsh
Tue Sep 15, 2009 at 18:00Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions
I assume, by this point, no one expected anything else?
If not, forgive me, but you're the living definition of denial.
The fundamental truth about the Obama administration is that it is the Bush administration run by slightly less incompetent, marginally less evil people:
* The Iraq occupation will end when Bush wanted it to.
* The Bush administration's campaign of eradication of fundamental civil liberties, including the gutting of the 4th amendment and holding people without trial, continues.
* The Afghan war continues, and is even being escalated.
* The signature issue of "health care reform" is a scheme which will force citizens to buy private insurance which, because of lack of effective controls, will increase in price faster than wages or inflation.
* Obama and Geithner have followed the Bush/Paulson financial policies, virtually to the letter, spending trillions bailing out Wall Street and creating a financial sector which has fewer, larger actors with more political power than before.
* Obama continues to exert pressure primarily on Progressives rather than on Blue Dogs in order to obtain relatively more conservative rather than liberal bills. (This is not an accident.) The most liberal bill always comes from the House, the conference committee bill is inevitably closer to the more conservative Senate bill. (This is not an accident.)
* Unlike Bush Jr, Bush Sr., Clinton, and Reagan, Obama has not replaced the prior administration's district attorneys wholesale, instead leaving in place the majority of the Bush administration DA's who had survived Rove's purges intended to make sure they were loyal Republican apparatchiks.
* Obama has not cleaned out the administration in general of Bush-era appointees and plants; indeed he has filled less spots than either Clinton or Bush II had by this point in their terms—and no, it's not because the Senate won't confirm them.
* Obama appointees will be forced to resign if the right wing (aka Beck) goes after them hard, but if progressives don't like them, tough luck.
* Obama's economic team is filled with people who created the framework which allowed the financial meltdown to occur, who didn't see it coming, and whose solution to it is to give money to their friends and colleagues and try and get another bubble started.
* Etc.In most meaningful ways, Obama is running a slightly kinder, gentler and very moderately less-stupid version of the Bush constitutional framework.
Plus ça change plus c'est la meme chose.
| 21 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:46:27pm |
the Patriot Act failed to secure our borders, but my 88 year old mom is continuously shook down at airports, to my infinate dismay...hunting down terrorists overseas is a good thing...letting them walk in from Juarez is not...fail
| 22 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:46:28pm |
Hey, in context with his domestic policy this just proves he is not stupid, he knows exactly what he is doing.
| 23 |
TheBad Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:46:31pm |
re: #15 Jetpilot1101
Yes, I'm sure President Obama will come out and explicitly state that he was wrong to bang the drum against President Bush on this very issue. However, I won't hold my breath.
| 24 |
sngnsgt Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:47:01pm |
re: #16 Charles
The first word that came to my mind was screeching.
| 26 |
Jetpilot1101 Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:47:22pm |
re: #18 iceweasel
Uh, Obama is doing exactly what civil libertarians all knew he would do, ever since his FISA vote, long before he got elected.
This is yet another decision that proves Obama isn't the flaming lefty people enjoy imagining him as.
Oh he's still pretty left wing but he is also smart enough to realize that on some issues, being far left just won't cut it. I think he is taking a page from Bill Clinton's playbook. He understands the stakes and knows that if he panders to the moveon.org crowd, he's sure to lose support among the centrists. This is a smart calculation in the game of political calculus.
| 27 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:47:25pm |
| 28 |
lawhawk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:47:41pm |
This is another decision I agree with the President. He got this one right, but it again shows that Obama's statements come with an expiration date.
I expect the far left to complain bitterly, but most everyone else will or should find reason to support the decision to extend provisions of the Patriot Act, which include provisions that have proved useful in counterterror operations in the past.
Reality has a way of setting wishful thinking on its head.
| 29 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:47:54pm |
re: #22 brookly red
Hey, in context with his domestic policy this just proves he is not stupid, he knows exactly what he is doing.
working on re-election obviously
| 30 |
ted Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:48:00pm |
"Watch as the same people who loudly supported the Patriot Act for years suddenly start to find things wrong with it: "
Quite possible, but I don't think as many as who didn't support who will now go beserk.
| 31 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:48:03pm |
re: #20 cronus
Yup, they are seriously pissed.
| 32 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:48:32pm |
re: #30 ted
"Watch as the same people who loudly supported the Patriot Act for years suddenly start to find things wrong with it: "
Quite possible, but I don't think as many as who didn't support who will now go beserk.
You're wrong -- they're extremely unhappy about this.
| 33 |
ted Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:48:48pm |
re: #14 Charles
Nope. Not going to happen. I guess you haven't noticed that the left wing is NOT happy at all with these moves by the Obama administration.
Agree with Charles.
| 35 |
Yankee Division Son Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:48:59pm |
And Keith Olberman's head will either:
A) Explode
B) Disappear into a vortex like the house at the end of the movie "Poltergeist" trying to warp itself into explaining why he supports this decision.
| 36 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:49:00pm |
re: #20 cronus
That really needs to be read by anyone who wants to claim Obama is a lefty or beloved by the left. It simply isn't so.
| 37 |
LSD Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:49:04pm |
re: #16 Charles
You can almost feel the seething out there, can't you?
I admit there are people like myself who really thought the President would drop the ball on national security, but forgot that any RESPONSIBLE person who knows what the President now knows would absolutely do the right thing. I would even include Biden, Hillary, and yes, even (gulp) Pelosi would if faced with the same information. They are after all, Americans.
| 38 |
Jetpilot1101 Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:49:24pm |
re: #23 TheBad
Yes, I'm sure President Obama will come out and explicitly state that he was wrong to bang the drum against President Bush on this very issue. However, I won't hold my breath.
You are missing my point. The point isn't to issue an apology (although you never know what he'll do in private), it's a change of mind and a good one at that.
| 39 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:49:26pm |
| 40 |
ted Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:50:05pm |
re: #32 Charles
You're wrong -- they're extremely unhappy about this.
Who? The lefties are gonna go nuts.
| 42 |
Bagua Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:50:10pm |
re: #18 iceweasel
Uh, Obama is doing exactly what civil libertarians all knew he would do, ever since his FISA vote, long before he got elected.
This is yet another decision that proves Obama isn't the flaming lefty people enjoy imagining him as.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
/
| 43 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:50:18pm |
re: #28 lawhawk
I'm still wondering if Obama was pandering during the campaign or that once he was in office he came to accept the reality of things like Iraq, Patriot Act, etc. I knew Hillary was pandering to the lefty base but I could never get a feel for Obama.
| 44 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:50:34pm |
re: #29 albusteve
working on re-election obviously
people vote there pocketbooks, I can't see that happening.
| 45 |
Danny Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:50:37pm |
re: #40 ted
I think Charles was responding to the quote in your post.
| 47 |
sngnsgt Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:50:48pm |
re: #41 buzzsawmonkey
Regardless of how many Bush-era policies Obama continues, I do not expect him to abandon blaming Bush for all his problems.
Word.
| 48 |
LSD Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:51:33pm |
| 49 |
ted Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:52:17pm |
I don't like Obama, but I support him when I think he does right.
| 50 |
Gus Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:52:20pm |
Alternate Universe:
Maybe the Patriot Act isn't a bad thing after all.ACLU
//
| 51 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:53:08pm |
/oh and Guantanamo is still open, and we are still in Iraq, & we are still...
| 52 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:53:26pm |
Watch as the same people who loudly supported the Patriot Act for years suddenly start to find things wrong with it.
I always supported the Patriot Act.
Has it changed or something?
| 53 |
lawhawk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:53:42pm |
re: #22 brookly red
Foreign policy and national security are far more difficult to adjust from administration to administration because of the entrenched bureaucracies and that it is national security we're talking about. Presidents see all the PDBs that come across their desk. They see the threats. They know what's out there - and what we don't know. They can see how programs that one can be quick to castigate from the outside, but realize just how crucial they are once they're in the Oval Office.
It's one of the reasons that Obama can say that he'd like to close Gitmo, but doing something to make that happen by the end of the year is looking less likely. He can throw his partisans a bone here and there, but the policies will remain close to where they were under the prior Administration.
| 54 |
ted Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:54:09pm |
| 55 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:54:12pm |
re: #43 Killgore Trout
I'm still wondering if Obama was pandering during the campaign or that once he was in office he came to accept the reality of things like Iraq, Patriot Act, etc. I knew Hillary was pandering to the lefty base but I could never get a feel for Obama.
Obama is and always has been a pragmatist, in my opinion. This was foreseeable given his vote on FISA. It's also in line with every single decision he's made since taking office. The open left article cronus posted nails it.
BTW, I was already hearing rumblings from progressives about another 3rd party candidate. I don't think they'll do it in 2012, but it damn well could happen again in 2016.
| 57 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:55:32pm |
re: #51 brookly red
/oh and Guantanamo is still open, and we are still in Iraq, & we are still...
a wide eyed rookie...saving his political skin is all that's important to him...that and the fact he's the smartest man ever to be POTUS
| 59 |
Bagua Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:56:21pm |
So far, I see Obama ramping up the war in Afghanistan, holding the line in Iraq, tightening the leash on the Iranians, and now maintaining the Patriot Act to better protect the homeland.
So far so good Mr. President.
| 60 |
Gus Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:56:45pm |
re: #58 sngnsgt
But that's still Bushs' fault.
That's what George used to say every time he used to come across his father's handiwork.
//
| 61 |
Salamantis Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:56:47pm |
re: #51 brookly red
/oh and Guantanamo is still open, and we are still in Iraq, & we are still...
Good!
| 62 |
lawhawk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:56:57pm |
re: #43 Killgore Trout
That's a real good question, and I think that he reflexively goes to pander mode, and in some respects does it better than Hillary ever did in the primaries, but in other ways shows himself as a political neophyte because it's so obvious that you know he can't or wont keep his word down the line.
| 63 |
MandyManners Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:57:20pm |
The far right and the far left agree on something. FCBBHO really is a uniter.
| 64 |
Danny Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:57:20pm |
I suspect the democrats in congress will come up with some so-called "additional protections" that they will claim make it different from the Bush-era Patriot Act.
"New and Improved!"
| 65 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:58:14pm |
re: #41 buzzsawmonkey
blaming Bush for all his problems.
Up-ding.
Not intending sacrilege, I WOULD like to see a "Moses moment" in the Oval Office -- it'd be an eye-opener for someone.
| 66 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:58:16pm |
"We're heartened they're saying they're willing to work with Congress," Richardson said, adding that is "definitely a sea change from what we've seen in the past."
Didn't Congress pass it and subsequently renew it during Bush's presidency? I'm pretty sure some work with Congress was involved.
| 68 |
EaterOfFood Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:58:34pm |
re: #41 buzzsawmonkey
Regardless of how many Bush-era policies Obama continues, I do not expect him to abandon blaming Bush for all his problems.
Maybe Obama might just vindicate Bush after all.
| 69 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:58:40pm |
| 70 |
sngnsgt Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:59:19pm |
re: #64 Danny
I suspect the democrats in congress will come up with some so-called "additional protections" that they will claim make it different from the Bush-era Patriot Act.
"New and Improved!"
Kinder and gentler also.
| 71 |
Salamantis Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:59:45pm |
Obama is learning one of the most painful lessons that any new president has to learn:
Don't fuck with what works.
| 73 |
funky chicken Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:00:02pm |
re: #12 iceweasel
I've said it before and I'll say it again: as bad as people like me thought Bush was on civil liberties and the expansion of executive power, Obama is in some ways even worse.
Bush and Cheney were at least forthright about their theories on executive power. Obama typically says one thing and does another.
And regardless of what people think on this issue, I think we can all agree that the people who screamed about this under Bush, but are quiet now, and the people who had no problem with this under Bush but now suddenly are oh-so-concerned, are not serious people and should be condemned for their double standards and rank partisanship.
And then you have the right wing nuts like Bob Barr who defies description and understanding, at least for me. The guy wants folks making calls to fishy numbers in Pakistan to have total privacy but wants zero reproductive choice/privacy for American women.
idon'tgetit
| 74 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:00:08pm |
re: #59 Bagua
So far, I see Obama ramping up the war in Afghanistan, holding the line in Iraq, tightening the leash on the Iranians, and now maintaining the Patriot Act to better protect the homeland.
So far so good Mr. President.
The only major problems I have with Obama's foreign policy at this point are his positions on Israel. I think he's pushing Israel into an untenable position with his continued refusal to face the Iranian issue realistically.
Israel's going to have to choose at some point whether to launch a pre-emptive strike against Iran's nuclear facilities, and Obama's waffling on Iran may push them to do it sooner rather than later.
Who knows? Maybe that's the plan.
| 75 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:00:19pm |
re: #20 cronus
The fundamental truth about the Obama administration is that it is the Bush administration run by slightly less incompetent, marginally less evil people:
Debatable.
| 77 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:00:48pm |
re: #71 Salamantis
Obama is learning one of the most painful lessons that any new president has to learn:
Don't fuck with what works.
/even if you said you would
| 78 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:02:14pm |
re: #46 Noam Sayin'
And... he called Kanye West a jackass.
| 80 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:03:11pm |
re: #75 JamesTKirk
Debatable.
Well, he suspended torture and extraordinary rendition (although Original Recipe Rendition is just fine with him). So I'll endorse the "marginally less evil" part of the claim.
| 81 |
Danny Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:03:24pm |
re: #50 Gus 802
Alternate Universe:
Maybe the Patriot Act isn't a bad thing after all.
ACLU
//
Looks like you coulda left off the sarc tags:
Michelle Richardson of the American Civil Liberties Union called the administration's position "a mixed bag," and said that the group hopes the next version of the Patriot Act will have important safeguards on other issues, particularly the collecting of international communications, and a specific bar on surveillance of protected First Amendment activities like peaceful protests or religious assembly.
"We're heartened they're saying they're willing to work with Congress," Richardson said, adding that is "definitely a sea change from what we've seen in the past."
| 82 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:04:08pm |
re: #79 buzzsawmonkey
Maybe he should have just called him a cab...I don't think Kanye West knows how to ride a jackass.
not the Kayne West I know...
| 83 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:04:12pm |
re: #78 JamesTKirk
[Link: 12.media.tumblr.com...]
big whoop...he needs to keep his mouth shut about MTV awards...off the record?...I suppose
| 84 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:04:32pm |
re: #2 Jetpilot1101
Seems like President Obama is supporting a lot of President Bush's policies. What happened to all the hope and CHANGE?
HE is doing many of the same things, however, he is also consulting the FISA courts and following the law more closely. He is being very pragmatic. I would imagine that the morning intelligence briefings have been very strongly sinking in.
| 85 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:05:17pm |
Heh. The lefty blogs really seem to like me now.
Not sure whether to feel flattered or cynically disgusted. They've been attacking me like rabid chihuahuas for years -- but as soon as I start criticizing the right, I'm OK?
Maybe instead of worrying about it, I'll just pop open a Chimay Grand Reserve and kick back.
| 86 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:05:38pm |
re: #80 iceweasel
Well, he suspended torture and extraordinary rendition (although Original Recipe Rendition is just fine with him). So I'll endorse the "marginally less evil" part of the claim.
what torture? you mean that water boarding thing we use to train our own?
| 87 |
funky chicken Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:06:34pm |
particularly the collecting of international communications
eyeroll, good old ACLU
| 88 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:07:22pm |
Get a load of this one.
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]
| 89 |
mich-again Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:07:47pm |
. ABC News says it was wrong for its employees to tweet that Obama had called West a "jackass" for the rapper's treatment of country singer Taylor Swift. The network said some of its employees had overheard a conversation between the president and CNBC's John Harwood and didn't realize it was considered off the record.The network apologized to the White House and CNBC.
Apologize for a feel-good story like that?
| 90 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:07:47pm |
re: #84 LudwigVanQuixote
I would imagine that the morning intelligence briefings have been very strongly sinking in.
He was receiving all of the same briefings that Bush was back when Obama was still a candidate. That is (and has been for some time) standard operating procedure, to ensure continuity of government, shorten the learning curve, and get the new President to hit the ground running as soon as he's inaugurated.
Which means that any candidate who immediately breaks their promises when they get into the Oval Office because "OMG, I had no idea things were this bad" is a complete and utter baldfaced liar.
| 91 |
lawhawk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:08:15pm |
re: #85 Charles
Take one down... pass it around...
And yes.. you should be disgusted by the sudden adoration from the left, and the simultaneous ODS from the right.
| 92 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:08:43pm |
re: #86 brookly red
what torture? you mean that water boarding thing we use to train our own?
So under Obama, three less terrorists have been waterboarded than under Bush. Wow. I can feel the rainbows and unicorns already.
| 93 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:09:45pm |
re: #91 lawhawk
Take one down... pass it around...
And yes.. you should be disgusted by the sudden adoration from the left, and the simultaneous ODS from the right.
Not to mention the LGFDS.
| 94 |
Jack Burton Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:09:55pm |
re: #85 Charles
Say a few good things about Israel and bad things about Hamas in a row and they will go right back to calling you a chickenhawk and LGF a "Hate Site" run by AIPAC shills.
| 95 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:10:03pm |
re: #92 JamesTKirk
So under Obama, three less terrorists have been waterboarded than under Bush. Wow. I can feel the rainbows and unicorns already.
/btw, what ever did happen to that nice young pirate?
| 96 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:10:16pm |
I didn't care for the PA then and don't care for it now. I'm not the least bit surprised though.
I'd rather have the patriot act than have Ron Paul or Dennis Kuchinich as president.
| 98 |
MightySkip Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:10:18pm |
Somehow I doubt this right will outrage being predicted will materialize. I think people give credit where credit is due but we'll see.
| 99 |
abbyadams Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:10:24pm |
Here's the thing that surprises me. While I am not pretending that Obama kept (or will keep) every campaign promise, one thing that he does seem to be keeping is that he is governing the whole country, not the red states or the blue ones. Neither the far left (who are angry with him because he isn't governing as he did as a liberal senator) or the far right (who assumed that he was going to govern as a liberal senator) seem to be caught off guard.
Any more posts from me today negates my lurker status. Over and out.
| 100 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:11:00pm |
Another guy who's attacked me, at Washington Monthly:
[Link: www.washingtonmonthly.com...]
| 101 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:11:32pm |
re: #86 brookly red
what torture? you mean that water boarding thing we use to train our own?
You might want to take a look at the documents that were unclassified a couple of weeks ago as the result of an ACLU lawsuit. The form of waterboarding we employed was not the same as that employed in SERE training. And the US had discontinued the milder version used in SERE training in all but Navy SERE training-- because of the psychological harm it was doing to the troops who underwent it.
The docs are here, the info about the SERE suspensions is buried in a footnote. Number 24, 25 or 26. I don't recall. But it's the same page with the testimony about the form of waterboarding employed being the same as that for which the US tried and convicted Japanese of war crimes.
[Link: www.aclu.org...]
You want the OLC report there.
| 103 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:12:13pm |
Even Oliver Willis:
[Link: www.oliverwillis.com...]
| 104 |
Danny Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:12:19pm |
re: #85 Charles
The seem to feel a sense of relief, thinking they're now safe from the searing heat of green lizard fire...Mwuhuhuhuhuhahahah!
| 105 |
jones Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:13:01pm |
Doing the right thing and fooling moonbats. Nice work Mr. President!
| 106 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:13:07pm |
Rush Limbaugh via Stormfront...
From Kids on Bus to Kanye West: Race Rules All in Obama's America
The school bus filled with mostly black students beat up a white student a couple of times with all the black students cheering. Of course the white student on the bus deserved the beating. He was born a racist. That's what Newsweek magazine told us in its most recent cover. It's Obama's America, is it not? Obama's America, white kids getting beat up on school buses now. You put your kids on a school bus, you expect safety but in Obama's America the white kids now get beat up with the black kids cheering, "Yay, right on, right on, right on, right on," and, of course, everybody says the white kid deserved it, he was born a racist, he's white.
...
Just return the white students to their rightful place, their own bus with bars on the windows and armed guards. They're racists. They get what they deserve.
Stormfront Nazi sez...
By my count, Limbaugh said the word White 22 times. Very interesting!!! When the "conservative" media begins pointing out race this often, it can only mean they believe a shift has occurred in the sentiments of their listeners.
This story reeks of a coordinated talking point. Drudge, Rush and Malkin all independently decided that a scuffle between kids on a school bus was a national racist crisis? Can this be possible?
Either way I find the attempts to exploit racism just nauseating.
| 107 |
Jack Burton Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:13:21pm |
re: #88 Charles
The comments to that post are particularly nauseating though. Still looks like the average KOSsaks have a masters degree in talking out their asses.
| 108 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:13:31pm |
Meanwhile, white supremacist blogger Robert Stacy McCain (new darling of the right wing blogs) is attacking again. No linkies for him.
| 109 |
avanti Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:13:49pm |
re: #83 albusteve
big whoop...he needs to keep his mouth shut about MTV awards...off the record?...I suppose
Bullshit, he's just a guy after all. In some off the banter while setting up a interview, someone asked what his daughters thought about the MTV thing and he answered. Someone decided to tweet the casual remark which BTW I agree with.
It's not like he offered up a opinion out of the blue, or was even asked in the interview, it was just shooting the breeze off the record, and someone used twitter to report it. I'd hate to see the guy not be able to feel free to engage in casual chat off the record now and then.
| 110 |
jones Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:14:19pm |
re: #85 Charles
Heh. The lefty blogs really seem to like me now.
Not sure whether to feel flattered or cynically disgusted. They've been attacking me like rabid chihuahuas for years -- but as soon as I start criticizing the right, I'm OK?
Maybe instead of worrying about it, I'll just pop open a Chimay Grand Reserve and kick back.
So who attacks better, wingnuts or moonbats? There should be some money for a thesis coming your way.
| 111 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:14:21pm |
re: #101 iceweasel
You might want to take a look at the documents that were unclassified a couple of weeks ago as the result of an ACLU lawsuit. The form of waterboarding we employed was not the same as that employed in SERE training. And the US had discontinued the milder version used in SERE training in all but Navy SERE training-- because of the psychological harm it was doing to the troops who underwent it.
The docs are here, the info about the SERE suspensions is buried in a footnote. Number 24, 25 or 26. I don't recall. But it's the same page with the testimony about the form of waterboarding employed being the same as that for which the US tried and convicted Japanese of war crimes.
[Link: www.aclu.org...]
You want the OLC report there.
well you may be right about that but after 9/11 I don't really care. I know, I am bad person.
| 112 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:14:59pm |
re: #101 iceweasel
You might want to take a look at the documents that were unclassified a couple of weeks ago as the result of an ACLU lawsuit. The form of waterboarding we employed was not the same as that employed in SERE training. And the US had discontinued the milder version used in SERE training in all but Navy SERE training-- because of the psychological harm it was doing to the troops who underwent it.
The docs are here, the info about the SERE suspensions is buried in a footnote. Number 24, 25 or 26. I don't recall. But it's the same page with the testimony about the form of waterboarding employed being the same as that for which the US tried and convicted Japanese of war crimes.
[Link: www.aclu.org...]
You want the OLC report there.
The US didn't try and convicted Japanese for waterboarding, they tried and convicted Japanese for actual war crimes, up to and including mutilations and mass murder. To compare what the Japanese did in WWII to waterboarding is pretty close to comparing KFC to the Holocaust. They're not even in the same ballpark.
| 113 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:15:08pm |
re: #88 Charles
Get a load of this one.
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]
I wonder if any of them would register here if registration was opened
| 114 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:15:16pm |
re: #101 iceweasel
You might want to take a look at the documents that were unclassified a couple of weeks ago as the result of an ACLU lawsuit. The form of waterboarding we employed was not the same as that employed in SERE training. And the US had discontinued the milder version used in SERE training in all but Navy SERE training-- because of the psychological harm it was doing to the troops who underwent it.
The docs are here, the info about the SERE suspensions is buried in a footnote. Number 24, 25 or 26. I don't recall. But it's the same page with the testimony about the form of waterboarding employed being the same as that for which the US tried and convicted Japanese of war crimes.
[Link: www.aclu.org...]
You want the OLC report there.
Keep in mind though, that waterboarding the terror masters did work. It temporarily broke their will to resist, and that is the important thing.
| 115 |
Irish Rose Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:15:39pm |
re: #100 Charles
Another guy who's attacked me, at Washington Monthly:
[Link: www.washingtonmonthly.com...]
So Charles, how's your inbox looking today?
| 116 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:15:55pm |
re: #113 SpaceJesus
I wonder if any of them would register here if registration was opened
I feel fairly certain it would be a first if they didn't.
| 117 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:16:08pm |
re: #111 brookly red
well you may be right about that but after 9/11 I don't really care. I know, I am bad person.
I am right about that, but whether torture is ever justified is a whole other debate, and one we don't need to have right now. I'd rather not, anyway.
And I don't think you're a bad person.
| 118 |
tradewind Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:16:36pm |
James Earl must be so proud.
I'm sure Georgia is. Getting your book praised by a zombie terrorist must be such a rush...
[Link: thelede.blogs.nytimes.com...]
| 119 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:16:38pm |
re: #112 JamesTKirk
The US didn't try and convicted Japanese for waterboarding, they tried and convicted Japanese for actual war crimes, up to and including mutilations and mass murder. To compare what the Japanese did in WWII to waterboarding is pretty close to comparing KFC to the Holocaust. They're not even in the same ballpark.
Dude, they waterboarded. Torture then, torture now.
| 120 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:16:44pm |
re: #107 ArchangelMichael
The comments to that post are particularly nauseating though. Still looks like the average KOSsaks have a masters degree in talking out their asses.
Yes, some of them haven't forgotten that I'm a foul monster.
But there are actually some pretty sane comments too.
| 121 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:17:13pm |
re: #3 TheMatrix31
And the people who loudly opposed the Patriot Act start to treat it like it's the best thing since sliced bread...
I doubt it. I expect to see a very strange situation in which the far reaches of both sides are briefly equally seething.
| 122 |
funky chicken Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:17:20pm |
re: #106 Killgore Trout
Dude, really, stop reading that crap.
I'm sure there's offensive losers posting obnoxious stuff from all kinds of extremists on the web. Why on earth do you wallow in it? It's not healthy.
| 123 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:17:23pm |
re: #113 SpaceJesus
I wonder if any of them would register here if registration was opened
If they do, they won't find themselves at home. We've got a very low tolerance for partisan stupidity here. Most Koslings would get pissy and flounce.
| 124 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:17:25pm |
re: #120 Charles
Yes, some of them haven't forgotten that I'm a foul monster.
But there are actually some pretty sane comments too.
Even a blind squirrel...
| 125 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:17:43pm |
re: #117 iceweasel
I am right about that, but whether torture is ever justified is a whole other debate, and one we don't need to have right now. I'd rather not, anyway.
And I don't think you're a bad person.
fair nuff
| 126 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:18:02pm |
How's that "I hope he fails" meme sounding now?
| 127 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:18:38pm |
re: #111 brookly red
well you may be right about that but after 9/11 I don't really care. I know, I am bad person.
And regardless of who the President is, and what it might do to his or his party's future electoral prospects, I do NOT want to see another 9/11. That is above any politics, and I don't want to hear from anyone who thinks otherwise. If Obama has actually decided to take steps toward, rather than away from, defending American lives then he is doing the right thing.
| 128 |
tradewind Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:19:38pm |
re: #88 Charles
One of those things that makes you go hmmm.
| 129 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:19:39pm |
re: #119 iceweasel
Dude, they waterboarded. Torture then, torture now.
It WORKED. I'm not going going to shed any tears over what happens to the likes of Ramiz bin Alshibi.
| 130 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:19:41pm |
re: #113 SpaceJesus
I wonder if any of them would register here if registration was opened
You don't think some of them already have?
| 133 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:20:12pm |
re: #123 Dark_Falcon
If they do, they won't find themselves at home. We've got a very low tolerance for partisan stupidity here. Most Koslings would get pissy and flounce.
there seems to be a handful or so of normal people running around there
| 134 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:20:20pm |
| 135 |
rollwave87 Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:20:26pm |
Charles,
Any chance there's an LGF iPhone app coming?
...and good point about the patriot act.
| 136 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:21:05pm |
re: #126 Slumbering Behemoth
How's that "I hope he fails" meme sounding now?
Hell, I still hope that some of his programs fail.
| 137 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:21:11pm |
re: #126 Slumbering Behemoth
How's that "I hope he fails" meme sounding now?
fail to continue good policy? no. this healthcare thing? skippy!
| 138 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:21:20pm |
re: #18 iceweasel
This is yet another decision that proves Obama isn't the flaming lefty people enjoy imagining him as.
"Can't I just finish my waffle enjoy my hyper-partisanship"?
/
| 139 |
ZardozZ Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:22:06pm |
re: #74 Charles
My gut (and its a sizable one these days) tells me your both right. Netenyahoo! announced this week that there will NOT stop building in the settlements. He is thumbing his nose at the White House. It will end badly... Buy oil futures !!
| 140 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:22:42pm |
re: #107 ArchangelMichael
The comments to that post are particularly nauseating though. Still looks like the average KOSsaks have a masters degree in talking out their asses.
Well, it looks like half of them (as usual) either have never read LGF or don't know what they're talking about. I'm surprised how many of them are pro-charles though, and several seem to be pro-lgf. They're saying they're reading and they're impressed. Some of them are sane, I think.
| 141 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:22:46pm |
re: #101 iceweasel
On iPhone, so not gonna DL the report. I don't like the "same" phrasing you have there. Is that from the report, or have you mashed thngs together and changed the meaning, presumably unintentionally?
| 142 |
Flyers1974 Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:23:13pm |
re: #88 Charles
Get a load of this one.
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]
One of the comments to the that post said: "I have seen some rational discussion over there and some very amusing and witty comments"
| 143 |
Danny Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:23:29pm |
re: #135 rollwave87
Charles,
Any chance there's an LGF iPhone app coming?
...and good point about the patriot act.
I've envisioned one that works sorta like Spy mode with an SMS style interface, but with multiple screens that slide back and forth between threads. Wish I knew somebody that could write iPhone apps.
| 144 |
avanti Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:23:30pm |
re: #85 Charles
Heh. The lefty blogs really seem to like me now.
Not sure whether to feel flattered or cynically disgusted. They've been attacking me like rabid chihuahuas for years -- but as soon as I start criticizing the right, I'm OK?
Maybe instead of worrying about it, I'll just pop open a Chimay Grand Reserve and kick back.
The leftie blogs are just glad to see a bit of sanity on the right. Right now, you seem concerned about some on the right going nuts, and they share that concern.
If the left screws up, you'll call them out too, and there goes your some of your new fans on the leftie blogs. i.e., I've told more than one friend on the left, that LGF is a place for reasonable discussion from both political spectrum's.
| 145 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:23:40pm |
re: #122 funky chicken
Dude, really, stop reading that crap.
I'm sure there's offensive losers posting obnoxious stuff from all kinds of extremists on the web. Why on earth do you wallow in it? It's not healthy.
Rush? Drudge and Malkin were pushing that story today too. Don't you find it odd? School kids of various races get in fights everyday. Stormfront always covers stories of "Black guy rapes white girl", etc. I'm used to it and expect it from them. Don't you find it troubling that right wing sites and pundits are doing the same thing? Why is this story important?
| 146 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:24:02pm |
re: #142 Flyers1974
One of the comments to the that post said: "I have seen some rational discussion over there and some very amusing and witty comments"
Did they add "in bed"?
| 147 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:24:08pm |
re: #131 LSD
They are still seething over "St. Pancake"
And I never used that term myself, by the way.
| 148 |
~Fianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:24:13pm |
re: #13 Phanatic
And watch as people who opposed it for years are suddenly fine with it.
Not this one.
Chalk me up as pissed.
| 149 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:24:20pm |
re: #122 funky chicken
Dude, really, stop reading that crap.
I'm sure there's offensive losers posting obnoxious stuff from all kinds of extremists on the web. Why on earth do you wallow in it? It's not healthy.
Zackly. Wipe your feet when you enter a house.
| 150 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:24:22pm |
| 151 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:24:47pm |
re: #123 Dark_Falcon
If they do, they won't find themselves at home. We've got a very low tolerance for partisan stupidity here. Most Koslings would get pissy and flounce.
I'm not sure about that. I never spent a lot of time there and always thought the comments were a trainwreck, but I'm seeing some good ones there. The average commenter there is probably crap, but not all, I don't think.
| 152 |
LSD Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:24:47pm |
re: #147 Charles
And I never used that term myself, by the way.
Exactly, but they won't let that stop them...
| 153 |
Abu Al-Poopypants Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:25:39pm |
Obama said while running for Senate that he'd vote to repeal the Patriot Act.
Once elected, he voted to reauthorize it.
Surprise!
| 154 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:25:43pm |
re: #123 Dark_Falcon
If they do, they won't find themselves at home. We've got a very low tolerance for partisan stupidity here. Most Koslings would get pissy and flounce.
I've been a Kos user for years. I saw that diary but didn't post on it. I'm a blue dog sympathizer and get a little frustrated over there from time to time so when Charles started up with the rational republican talk I registered when I happened to notice registration was open.
| 155 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:25:54pm |
re: #149 haakondahl
"obnoxious stuff from all kinds of extremists" now includes Drudge, Limbaugh and Malkin? There's a very serious problem.
| 156 |
ArmyWife Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:26:32pm |
Good on the President. Make this TWO things I can applaud the President for - the first was when he called Kanye a jackass.
| 157 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:26:39pm |
re: #135 rollwave87
Charles,
Any chance there's an LGF iPhone app coming?
...and good point about the patriot act.
and one for the blackberry plz
| 160 |
swamprat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:27:28pm |
Everybody wants to criticize the man at the very top. The one with the real info. The one with the responsibility for the whole nation.
Good luck Mr President.
on topic
| 161 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:29:05pm |
re: #144 avanti
The leftie blogs are just glad to see a bit of sanity on the right. Right now, you seem concerned about some on the right going nuts, and they share that concern.
If the left screws up, you'll call them out too, and there goes your some of your new fans on the leftie blogs. i.e., I've told more than one friend on the left, that LGF is a place for reasonable discussion from both political spectrum's.
That's what I think. And it's good some of these people who previously had a wholly inaccurate opinion of LGF are at least willing to look, and to link to CJ's take down of the Beck numbers inflation even if they didn't like LGF before.
Hard not to be cynical, and I'm sure the hyperpartisans will lose it again once LGF doesn't conform to something they hold dear, but it's still good. I bet traffic goes way up again this week, too.
| 162 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:29:07pm |
re: #144 avanti
The leftie blogs are just glad to see a bit of sanity on the right. Right now, you seem concerned about some on the right going nuts, and they share that concern.
If the left screws up, you'll call them out too, and there goes your some of your new fans on the leftie blogs. i.e., I've told more than one friend on the left, that LGF is a place for reasonable discussion from both political spectrum's.
Almost everybody. Chryslers for Castro is pretty close to the edge...
| 163 |
Jim in Virginia Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:30:17pm |
re: #132 buzzsawmonkey
The suggestion that black kids are not, or cannot be, racist is fundamentally flawed.
I heard that twenty or thirty some years ago in peaceful, multi cultural Hawaii, the last day of school each year was "Let's kick a haole's ass day."
| 164 |
Abu Al-Poopypants Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:30:22pm |
"As a constitutional law professor and civil rights attorney, I bring a unique arsenal of ideas and experiences to the U.S. Senate. I will use these strengths to help stop John Ashcroft from trampling on our liberties and freedoms, including opposing his call for an expansion of one of the more dangerous pieces of legislation to pass Congress in decades, the so-called U.S. Patriot Act.
...
b. electronic eavesdropping?
I would not support a continuation of the expansive eavesdropping permitted under the so-called Patriot Act.
c. roving wiretaps?
I would not support the expansive wiretap authority of the Patriot Act, but would permit wiretaps on cell phones where a judge finds probable cause that an individual is engaging in terrorist activity.
"
| 165 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:30:51pm |
re: #160 swamprat
Everybody wants to criticize the man at the very top. The one with the real info. The one with the responsibility for the whole nation.
Good luck Mr President.errr, now that he has that information he is doing the right thing (in this case) it's what he said before he had that information.
| 166 |
teh flowah Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:30:52pm |
re: #15 Jetpilot1101
I wouldn't call it hypocrisy. I would call it being intelligent enough to change one's positon once more information becomes available. I think it shows spine because in doing this, he is really putting his finger in the eye of the far left. I support Obama on this one. Good job Mr. President.
Well, it is hypocritical, but for reasons that make it stupid to point out. Obama probably knew, because Obama may be a lot of things but he's not dumb, that the Patriot Act would be something he was going to extend. But to say that out on the campaign trail would be political suicide. All politicians do this pandering. It's up to intelligent voters to be able to separate the pandering from the real stuff. It's not too difficult to do. People recognized right away that McCain picking Palin was pure pandering to the far Right.
I agree he's showing some backbone here though, knowing he's going to just piss off his base.
| 167 |
Reginald Perrin Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:31:34pm |
re: #100 Charles
I read the link and to me it appeared Steve Benet didn't take any position on you at all.
I hope you don't mind if my posting the section of the article the concerns you.
Charles Johnson, himself a conservative blogger at Little Green Footballs, finds the right's approach to this rather depressing. "This is so pathetic I don't know whether to laugh or cry," he said, adding, "An epic, monumental fail."
| 168 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:31:36pm |
re: #85 Charles
They're all fair weather friends. Stick to your guns, and enjoy that hard earned ale.
| 169 |
funky chicken Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:31:44pm |
re: #145 Killgore Trout
Why do you care what Limbaugh says? And if I tried to keep up with Malkin's outrage of the day, I'd get an ulcer.
Really, when I say it's not healthy to spend so much time reading stormfront's website, I meant it literally.
| 170 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:31:58pm |
re: #152 LSD
Exactly, but they won't let that stop them...
But are they blaming Charles for that, or just pointing out someone here in comments came up with it? I haven't read all the comments there yet, only saw the one about it.
| 171 |
ArmyWife Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:32:17pm |
re: #85 Charles
While you are kicking back, might I suggest rabid Poodle? Rabid Westie? The chihuahuas are sensitive to these comments from you, as I've noted in the past. They are feeling less than loved right now. Perhaps they might even flounce.
///
| 172 |
Erik The Red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:32:18pm |
re: #164 Abu Al-Poopypants
"As a constitutional law professor and civil rights attorney, I bring a unique arsenal of ideas and experiences to the U.S. Senate. I will use these strengths to help stop John Ashcroft from trampling on our liberties and freedoms, including opposing his call for an expansion of one of the more dangerous pieces of legislation to pass Congress in decades, the so-called U.S. Patriot Act.
...
b. electronic eavesdropping?I would not support a continuation of the expansive eavesdropping permitted under the so-called Patriot Act.
c. roving wiretaps?
I would not support the expansive wiretap authority of the Patriot Act, but would permit wiretaps on cell phones where a judge finds probable cause that an individual is engaging in terrorist activity.
"
That's not the Senator I knew///
| 174 |
avanti Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:32:22pm |
re: #142 Flyers1974
One of the comments to the that post said: "I have seen some rational discussion over there and some very amusing and witty comments"
I like this one:
Charles is okay ! (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
oxley
Charles Johnson is a RESPONSIBLE blogger: one who knows there is no "K" in "conservative".
He has been on the "shitlist" at places like Free Republic for several months now - because he doesn't think responsible Americans should be kissing up to European Fascists...which pretty much tells you what FR has become.
| 175 |
lawhawk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:32:28pm |
re: #165 brookly red
What he said before goes to character and judgment, which I still find lacking. Had he good character and judgment, he would not have said those things - because they were clearly done without full information.
But that's why he got elected, and I'm just a blogger.
| 176 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:32:33pm |
re: #154 Conservative Moonbat
I've been a Kos user for years. I saw that diary but didn't post on it. I'm a blue dog sympathizer and get a little frustrated over there from time to time so when Charles started up with the rational republican talk I registered when I happened to notice registration was open.
Because until it sounded more like you, it was all irrational.
| 179 |
swamprat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:33:48pm |
re: #160 swamprat
also applies to da blogfaddah
alone at the top
getting rotten tomatoes and kudos thrown
his own picture as his avatar
a royal "fuck you" to stalkers
| 180 |
Jack Burton Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:33:56pm |
re: #18 iceweasel
This is yet another decision that proves Obama isn't the flaming lefty people enjoy imagining him as.
It is possible for him to still be "that flaming lefty" but not reflect it policy-wise. I'm pretty sure that he was pandering on a little and naive on a lot. Reality cockblocked him and it probably started doing so the first intelligence brief he received after the primaries were decided. He is performing about as I expected, maybe a little better on foreign policy, but as expected on the economy.
| 181 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:34:01pm |
re: #167 Reginald Perrin
I read the link and to me it appeared Steve Benet didn't take any position on you at all.
I hope you don't mind if my posting the section of the article the concerns you.
Yeah, I don't know the history of prior attacks, but all I saw benen do was link LGF and give CJ credit. Which will send readers here in a good way.
| 182 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:34:05pm |
re: #168 Slumbering Behemoth
They're all fair weather friends. Stick to your guns, and enjoy that hard earned ale.
Agreed. Sooner or later, Charles will find something to go after the left over. When he does, they'll turn on him again.
| 183 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:34:10pm |
Fozzie Bear drove a Studebaker in the Muppet Movie, therefore ... there must be something okay about Avanti, in spite of his karma continuing to go to heaven in a hand-basket!
/affectionate teasing from a conservative who doesn't always agree with him, but stays out of it
| 184 |
MandyManners Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:34:15pm |
re: #132 buzzsawmonkey
The suggestion that black kids are not, or cannot be, racist is fundamentally flawed. If you know anything of Chicago and its environs, you know that black kids, when they think they can get away with it, will kick the hell out of white kids, just as white kids will, unfortunately, kick the hell out of black kids when they think they can get away with it--solely on the basis of race.
I have a good friend who grew up in Michelle Obama's neighborhood of South Shore. When Michelle Obama was a babe in arms (or barely older than that), South Shore turned from majority -white to majority black in one summer.
My friend's parents--good liberals--decided to stay because they were committed to integration. And my friend, blond and slight of build, got beaten up every day in high school, merely for being blond and slight of build. It got to the point where he took to listing his parents' house with real estate agents behind their back to get them to move--which they finally did.
I'll never foget the day I got called a "white cracker bitch" by an African-American boy about 9 years old for teling him to give me The Kid's football so that we could go home.
| 186 |
Erik The Red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:34:25pm |
| 188 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:35:14pm |
re: #173 taxfreekiller
act like the real world does not exist
act like the truth comes in wide varieties
act like the facts do not count up
act like the truth, the facts and the real world just has other things to do
or
acorn
They can act like that right up until their crimes come back on them. That that is finally starting to happen.
| 189 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:35:20pm |
re: #160 swamprat
Everybody wants to criticize the man at the very top. The one with the real info. The one with the responsibility for the whole nation.
Good luckMr PresidentCharles.on topic
[Video]
| 190 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:35:22pm |
re: #180 ArchangelMichael
You could be right. I never thought he was a flaming lefty to begin with, and none of his decisions have fit that mold (for me). Agree mostly with the rest of your assessment though.
| 191 |
Jimmah Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:35:26pm |
re: #169 funky chicken
Why do you care what Limbaugh says? And if I tried to keep up with Malkin's outrage of the day, I'd get an ulcer.
Really, when I say it's not healthy to spend so much time reading stormfront's website, I meant it literally.
Would you also agree with the statement "If you don't like Glenn Beck, don't watch him" (meaning - 'shut up and stop criticising him!') ?
| 192 |
SteveC Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:36:01pm |
re: #179 swamprat
also applies to da blogfaddah
alone at the top
getting rotten tomatoes and kudos thrownhis own picture as his avatar
a royal "fuck you" to stalkers
Your Haiku makes no sense
And is not in proper form.
You are not One with the Force
young Jedi.
| 193 |
MandyManners Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:36:04pm |
re: #187 buzzsawmonkey
You could feel the love, couldn't you?
I litterally rocked back on my heels. I wound up calling the cops on the child.
| 194 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:36:04pm |
re: #165 brookly red
errr, now that he has that information he is doing the right thing (in this case) it's what he said before he had that information.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 195 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:36:28pm |
re: #184 MandyManners
I'll never foget the day I got called a "white cracker bitch" by an African-American boy about 9 years old for teling him to give me The Kid's football so that we could go home.
I wouldn't blame a 9 year old... the parents, well that's another story.
| 196 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:36:47pm |
re: #155 Killgore Trout
"obnoxious stuff from all kinds of extremists" now includes Drudge, Limbaugh and Malkin? There's a very serious problem.
I agree. This story is being used as race bait.
Michelle Malkin is STILL listed as a contributor to VDARE, despite the fact that there's no doubt about their deceptive white nationalist agenda. What does that tell you?
| 198 |
SteveC Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:37:22pm |
re: #185 taxfreekiller
Jimmy Carter is the gold standard of useless old fool.
Credit where due: He does a good job pounding the hell out of some nails for Habitat for Humanity.
| 199 |
ArmyWife Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:37:24pm |
re: #184 MandyManners
No matter who is committing the act, it is equally repugnant.
| 200 |
Reginald Perrin Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:37:33pm |
re: #181 iceweasel
That is the way I saw it too. If anything, that quote will inflame those on the far right.
| 201 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:37:34pm |
re: #163 Jim in Virginia
I heard that twenty or thirty some years ago in peaceful, multi cultural Hawaii, the last day of school each year was "Let's kick a haole's ass day."
I did three years in public high schools there in the late 60's, including a year at Honolulu's Wallace Ryder Farrington. I never saw that then.
/just sayin' ... and you'd have expected it at Farrington if it was happening
| 203 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:37:44pm |
re: #184 MandyManners
I'll never foget the day I got called a "white cracker bitch" by an African-American boy about 9 years old for teling him to give me The Kid's football so that we could go home.
How ya doin' WCBMM?
| 204 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:38:06pm |
re: #191 Jimmah
Would you also agree with the statement "If you don't like Glenn Beck, don't watch him" (meaning - 'shut up and stop criticising him!') ?
That's exactly what the complaints are about. They don't like the dirt I'm digging up and would prefer I shut up about it. I get this all the time.
| 205 |
MandyManners Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:38:08pm |
re: #195 brookly red
I wouldn't blame a 9 year old... the parents, well that's another story.
Oh, yes, I blamed him. He's old enough to choose not to steal or verbally attack an adult who's calling him on it.
| 206 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:38:39pm |
re: #188 Dark_Falcon
They can act like that right up until their crimes come back on them. That that is finally starting to happen.
And someday, the media will even report it.
Honestly, even.
| 207 |
livefreeor die Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:38:46pm |
re: #185 taxfreekiller
Jimmy Carter is the gold standard of useless old fool.
You kind of wonder if they state extreme talking points in front of him to get him to repeat them.
| 208 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:39:00pm |
re: #141 haakondahl
On iPhone, so not gonna DL the report. I don't like the "same" phrasing you have there. Is that from the report, or have you mashed thngs together and changed the meaning, presumably unintentionally?
Download the report when you get a chance and read it. Highly recommend.
| 210 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:39:36pm |
re: #196 Charles
We've seen some pretty racist stuff from Limbaugh over the years too. Drudge has a relationship with Buchanan now. I think this is going to become a trend.
| 211 |
MandyManners Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:39:43pm |
| 212 |
karmic_inquisitor Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:40:06pm |
Thanks for the HT Charles.
I am getting more hopeful that Obama will chose the correct course on Afghanistan. So far his foreign policy moves have been consistent with what I would have wanted from McCain.
| 213 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:40:25pm |
re: #184 MandyManners
I'll never foget the day I got called a "white cracker bitch" by an African-American boy about 9 years old for teling him to give me The Kid's football so that we could go home.
But you didn't clean his clock, right?
//backs away slowly//
| 215 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:40:39pm |
re: #208 iceweasel
Download the report when you get a chance and read it. Highly recommend.
Simple question.
| 216 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:40:56pm |
re: #210 Killgore Trout
We've seen some pretty racist stuff from Limbaugh over the years too. Drudge has a relationship with Buchanan now. I think this is going to become a trend.
Drudge isn't the only one who runs Drudge Report.
| 217 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:41:03pm |
re: #212 karmic_inquisitor
So far his foreign policy moves have been consistent with what I would have wanted from McCain.
That's a good more. More or less, I agree.
| 218 |
MandyManners Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:41:33pm |
re: #213 JamesTKirk
But you didn't clean his clock, right?
//backs away slowly//
No. I told him to hush his mouth and to give me the ball. He went on and on, refused to give me the ball and I called the cops to keep it from escalating.
| 219 |
avspatti Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:41:35pm |
Speaking of Obama's running (as all Presidents do) for re-election, what about making the presidency term six years without chance for re-election? I often think that would be better. Presidents could then focus on the country instead of themselves. What a concept!
| 220 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:41:40pm |
re: #216 Charles
Interesting. I don't know anything about that.
| 221 |
karmic_inquisitor Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:42:01pm |
re: #108 Charles
Meanwhile, white supremacist blogger Robert Stacy McCain (new darling of the right wing blogs) is attacking again. No linkies for him.
Snore.
He is the South's Fjordman.
Much posturing. Much more words. Little substance.
| 222 |
avanti Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:42:36pm |
re: #183 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Fozzie Bear drove a Studebaker in the Muppet Movie, therefore ... there must be something okay about Avanti, in spite of his karma continuing to go to heaven in a hand-basket!
/affectionate teasing from a conservative who doesn't always agree with him, but stays out of it
Fozzie: Ahh, a bear in his natural habitat - a Studebaker.
| 223 |
funky chicken Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:42:45pm |
re: #191 Jimmah
Would you also agree with the statement "If you don't like Glenn Beck, don't watch him" (meaning - 'shut up and stop criticising him!') ?
We're talking about visiting sewers like stormfront, and believing them when they say things...it's not healthy.
I don't watch Glenn Beck but will make fun of him when he says stupid stuff on TV...but he's on a prominent national network. You have to go looking for stormfront.
I'm sure there are some really nasty left wing sites who love some of the MSNBC hosts, but I'm certainly not going to go wallow through their filth to discover it.
| 224 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:42:48pm |
My high school was almost entirely white, so they had to find some other reason to beat me up... Until I started making it too costly for them, and then limped away seeking weaker prey.
| 225 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:42:51pm |
re: #205 MandyManners
Oh, yes, I blamed him. He's old enough to choose not to steal or verbally attack an adult who's calling him on it.
true that, but I doubt he came up with that mindset all on his own.
| 226 |
Jim in Virginia Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:42:55pm |
OT- glad to see GMC is spending some of our money on a heavy TV ad buy.
Ed Whitacre reminds me of T Boone Pickens.
| 227 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:43:02pm |
re: #156 ArmyWife
Good on the President. Make this TWO things I can applaud the President for - the first was when he called Kanye a jackass.
What about the pirates? Can't forget them. Oh, and a few more dead AQ leaders.
| 228 |
SteveC Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:43:04pm |
re: #221 karmic_inquisitor
Snore.
He is the South's Fjordman.
Much posturing. Much more words. Little substance.
Hey now, don't push him off on us!
| 229 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:43:17pm |
| 230 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:43:33pm |
re: #222 avanti
Fozzie: Ahh, a bear in his natural habitat - a Studebaker.
An absolutely WONDERFUL sequence!
| 231 |
karmic_inquisitor Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:43:49pm |
re: #220 Killgore Trout
Interesting. I don't know anything about that.
I figured he had help - I know Breitbart used to help there.
| 232 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:44:41pm |
re: #223 funky chicken
We're talking about visiting sewers like stormfront, and believing them when they say things...it's not healthy.
No, not "believing them when they say things."
More like "noticing when their talking points are the same as those of major right wing pundits."
| 233 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:44:43pm |
re: #219 avspatti
Speaking of Obama's running (as all Presidents do) for re-election, what about making the presidency term six years without chance for re-election? I often think that would be better. Presidents could then focus on the country instead of themselves. What a concept!
Instant lame duck, you mean? One of the reasons why people often fear giving a President a second term is precisely because he can't run for re-election again and has absolutely nothing to lose.
| 234 |
tradewind Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:44:48pm |
re: #198 SteveC
Make that did a good job. He should have stuck to the one thing he did worth while in his pitiful post-presidency.
I can't imagine that he has much time to lavish on HFH now, since he spends most of it trotting over to Palestine to prop up the terrorists, or raving about the quality of life he finds in Cuba, or sitting in on some banana republic's election as their grand marshall.
| 235 |
Jimmah Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:45:14pm |
re: #214 taxfreekiller
Trouble with fools like Jimmy Carter and his tax and spend policies, he by that made more people homeless than he can ever, ever with his hammer and nails catch up to the shit he caused.
like that
he put them out on the street due to his stupid ass shit
And what about that Van Buren guy? Lets talk about that dipshit for a while///
| 236 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:45:18pm |
re: #224 JamesTKirk
My high school was almost entirely white, so they had to find some other reason to beat me up... Until I started making it too costly for them, and
thenthey limped away seeking weaker prey.
| 237 |
MandyManners Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:45:38pm |
re: #225 brookly red
true that, but I doubt he came up with that mindset all on his own.
Oh, no doubt here, either.
| 240 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:45:46pm |
I'm glad the President is doing the right thing re: the Patriot Act. The far lefties will disagree with him, but I doubt they'll be accused of racism. I believe President Obama is responding to a lot of opposition to his policies, which is the proper thing to do when his policies SHOULD be changed. And while I agree with most on this board that some in the Tea Party movement are quite despicable characters, I do not feel that the motives of all of the attendees at the tea parties are hatred-based. And I believe the polls show that there is plenty of legitimate opposition to the policies of the President. So it does appear that he understands that getting reelected means he needs more than his democrat base.
| 241 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:47:02pm |
re: #239 taxfreekiller
Obama will have to spend the rest of his time after 2012 with he and his wife with nail aprons and two hammers each, and all his ACORN help to boot and they will never ever catch up either.
10 to 12 % unemployment due to the over spending and over taxing
and open borders continuing and the ones of terror coming in at $15,000 a pop from Mexico, on and on, he will have some nailing to do.
I understand that's how Clinton is spending his retirement.
| 242 |
ArmyWife Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:47:12pm |
re: #227 Slumbering Behemoth
I will hold my tongue on both subjects.
| 243 |
avanti Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:47:24pm |
re: #230 pre-Boomer Marine brat
An absolutely WONDERFUL sequence!
See, we can agree on major national issues.:)
| 244 |
Teh Flowah Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:47:25pm |
re: #85 Charles
Heh. The lefty blogs really seem to like me now.
Not sure whether to feel flattered or cynically disgusted. They've been attacking me like rabid chihuahuas for years -- but as soon as I start criticizing the right, I'm OK?
Maybe instead of worrying about it, I'll just pop open a Chimay Grand Reserve and kick back.
You know what's hilarious? They are split into 2 groups on Dkos.
Group 1: They think you've stood still and the right has simply moved further right. Which is true I think, although they are mistaken in thinking that LGF were far right to begin with. Some of the commenters here have been pretty out there, but they get banned or leave when they realize birthers, Ron Paul nutjobs, truthers, and intelligent design pushers aren't really welcome.
Group 2: They think you've moved towards the center. Hahaha, they clearly haven't been reading you very long. You still care and link to stories about the war and terror and Islamic fundamentalism. Indeed you pointed out the similarities and links between the Christian fundamentalism movements in the United States with the Islamic fundamentalist movements abroad in terms of creationism. That is originally what Dkos labeled LGF as "crazy" for. And none of it's changed!
I think they need to do some introspection as to why your positions on those issues haven't changed, but some of their opinions of this site have changed.
| 245 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:47:54pm |
re: #240 _RememberTonyC
And while I agree with most on this board that some in the Tea Party movement are quite despicable characters, I do not feel that the motives of all of the attendees at the tea parties are hatred-based.
I haven't seen anyone make such a claim.
I fully realize that not all tea party attendees are despicable racists.
They're just associating with a LOT of people who are.
Including the organizers.
| 247 |
Jimmah Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:48:09pm |
re: #223 funky chicken
We're talking about visiting sewers like stormfront, and believing them when they say things...it's not healthy.
I don't watch Glenn Beck but will make fun of him when he says stupid stuff on TV...but he's on a prominent national network. You have to go looking for stormfront.
I'm sure there are some really nasty left wing sites who love some of the MSNBC hosts, but I'm certainly not going to go wallow through their filth to discover it.
You also mentioned Limbaugh and Malkin in the same context. No sale!
| 248 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:48:11pm |
re: #212 karmic_inquisitor
Thanks for the HT Charles.
I am getting more hopeful that Obama will chose the correct course on Afghanistan. So far his foreign policy moves have been consistent with what I would have wanted from McCain.
On topic Blog Pimping:
haakondahl blog.
"Relieved" was the word I used.
| 249 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:48:32pm |
re: #237 MandyManners
Oh, no doubt here, either.
well, being in Brooklyn I am sure I could tell you some stories, but it would be better if I didn't.
| 250 |
Killian Bundy Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:48:44pm |
Snuggie, the blanket with sleeves, makes NY Fashion Week debut with new 'urban jungle' line
All the big names came out for New York Fashion Week: Marc. Vera. Snuggie. Yes, Snuggie — the blanket with sleeves — staged a runway show on Tuesday, complete with high-fashion models and a new "urban jungle" line of zebra and leopard prints.
/not cool
| 251 |
Flyers1974 Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:48:54pm |
re: #240 _RememberTonyC
I'm glad the President is doing the right thing re: the Patriot Act. The far lefties will disagree with him, but I doubt they'll be accused of racism. I believe President Obama is responding to a lot of opposition to his policies, which is the proper thing to do when his policies SHOULD be changed. And while I agree with most on this board that some in the Tea Party movement are quite despicable characters, I do not feel that the motives of all of the attendees at the tea parties are hatred-based. And I believe the polls show that there is plenty of legitimate opposition to the policies of the President. So it does appear that he understands that getting reelected means he needs more than his democrat base.
I'd be surprised if he every had any doubts about that.
| 252 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:48:54pm |
Evening lizards. I have been busy restoring an old garden tractor and renovating my kitchen when I'm not working. I have been reading LGF when I can.
So what's new?
| 253 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:49:28pm |
re: #246 Gabriel Hanna
And with that, I bid you adieu.
| 254 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:49:43pm |
re: #243 avanti
See, we can agree on major national issues.:)
That is, ... until we come to the fork in the road.
/GOD, I loved the Muppets! ... :D
| 255 |
tradewind Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:49:52pm |
re: #240 _RememberTonyC
Re national security... it's one thing to spout your lefty stuff during the campaign, and quite another shocka when they hand you your first presidential daily briefing and you see from just how dangerous a world you now have sworn to protect the US . I would have loved to see the jaw-dropping that no doubt went on in some of those for TOTUS.
| 256 |
MandyManners Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:49:55pm |
re: #249 brookly red
well, being in Brooklyn I am sure I could tell you some stories, but it would be better if I didn't.
I never expected it here. There are no racial tensions that I'm aware of.
| 257 |
Abu Al-Poopypants Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:50:31pm |
re: #85 Charles
...I'll just pop open a Chimay Grand Reserve and kick back.
Must be nice to be rich!
| 259 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:50:56pm |
re: #242 ArmyWife
I will hold my tongue on both subjects.
Bummer. You should be getting ArmyHusband to do that for you?
//lousy french kissing joke
| 260 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:50:58pm |
| 261 |
SteveC Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:51:00pm |
re: #224 JamesTKirk
My high school was almost entirely white, so they had to find some other reason to beat me up... Until I started making it too costly for them, and then limped away seeking weaker prey.
Did you challenge them to a game of Rochambeau?
| 262 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:51:11pm |
re: #250 Killian Bundy
Snuggie, the blanket with sleeves, makes NY Fashion Week debut with new 'urban jungle' line
/not cool
Normally I really dig leopard print on a woman, but I am prepare to make an exception in this case.
| 263 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:51:14pm |
re: #212 karmic_inquisitor
Thanks for the HT Charles.
I am getting more hopeful that Obama will chose the correct course on Afghanistan. So far his foreign policy moves have been consistent with what I would have wanted from McCain.
Of course, that applies ONLY to Afghanistan. Not Iraq, Iran, Israel, Russia, Honduras, China, North Korea...
| 264 |
karmic_inquisitor Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:51:25pm |
Is there a version of the word "splodeydope" that can be applied to the suicide flouncers?
| 265 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:51:47pm |
re: #245 Charles
I haven't seen anyone make such a claim.
I fully realize that not all tea party attendees are despicable racists.
They're just associating with a LOT of people who are.
Including the organizers.
Charles ... Didn't Robert Gibbs and some others paint the attendees with a pretty broad brush? I heard some disparaging remarks about town hall meeting attendees. They may not have specifically said ALL attendees had impure motives, but they implied it pretty strongly.
| 266 |
tradewind Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:52:09pm |
Was that a flounce or a face-plant? I always miss 'em...
| 267 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:52:16pm |
re: #256 MandyManners
I never expected it here. There are no racial tensions that I'm aware of.
shit happens. I still think most people are good.
| 268 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:52:17pm |
re: #264 karmic_inquisitor
Is there a version of the word "splodeydope" that can be applied to the suicide flouncers?
splodeytrolls?
| 269 |
ArmyWife Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:52:53pm |
re: #259 Slumbering Behemoth
He would prefer I hold my tongue more often than I do! He is good a tuning me out after all these years though. All he hears is whahh wha wahhhnt wahnt wahhh.
| 270 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:53:10pm |
re: #229 Charles
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Well, isn't that interesting. A whole bunch of puzzle pieces suddenly fit.
| 271 |
Jim in Virginia Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:53:49pm |
re: #233 JamesTKirk
Instant lame duck, you mean? One of the reasons why people often fear giving a President a second term is precisely because he can't run for re-election again and has absolutely nothing to lose.
Four years of Jimmy Carter was enough.
| 272 |
jamgarr Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:53:57pm |
re: #264 karmic_inquisitor
Is there a version of the word "splodeydope" that can be applied to the suicide flouncers?
contrarybanned
| 273 |
Abu Al-Poopypants Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:54:03pm |
re: #269 ArmyWife
All he hears is whahh wha wahhhnt wahnt wahhh.
You're married to one of the Peanuts teachers?
| 274 |
Danny Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:54:06pm |
re: #266 tradewind
Was that a flounce or a face-plant? I always miss 'em...
Basically a "fart in your general direction" type post. Not wise.
| 275 |
SteveC Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:54:56pm |
re: #266 tradewind
Was that a flounce or a face-plant? I always miss 'em...
Gravity. They always forget that Gravity is still the law around here.
/"Listen up, Mr. Kansas lawdawg. Law don't go 'round here... savvy?"
| 276 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:55:11pm |
re: #266 tradewind
Was that a flounce or a face-plant? I always miss 'em...
It's when a lizard posts a comment to the effect that they are leaving LGF and is usually an attack on Charles. Flounces get deleted almost immediately.
| 277 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:55:18pm |
| 278 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:55:22pm |
I saw part of the latest ACORN video on Hannity a little while ago. Pretty shocking stuff.
| 279 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:55:22pm |
re: #269 ArmyWife
I was thinking of "holding your tongue", by your husband, in a more romantic, kiss kiss sense, not the "quite down, woman" sense.
Just so you know.
| 280 |
tradewind Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:55:34pm |
re: #274 Danny
So falls under face-plant.
Just as well I missed it.
The flouncers are the ones who bring teh funny.
| 281 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:55:41pm |
re: #265 _RememberTonyC
Charles ... Didn't Robert Gibbs and some others paint the attendees with a pretty broad brush? I heard some disparaging remarks about town hall meeting attendees. They may not have specifically said ALL attendees had impure motives, but they implied it pretty strongly.
I don't have much sympathy for the 'broad brush' argument. If you don't want to be associated with extremists, don't associate with extremists.
Seems pretty simple to me. But what do I know?
| 282 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:55:53pm |
re: #231 karmic_inquisitor
...with ties to the Washington Times (Moonies)
| 283 |
tradewind Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:56:01pm |
re: #278 NJDhockeyfan
It burns me up that my tax dollars have gone to that cabal of thugs.
| 284 |
ArmyWife Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:56:15pm |
re: #273 Abu Al-Poopypants
that is what he hears when I talk - sounds just like the adults in Peanuts to him! Key to a successful marriage. That and a gazzillion deployments so you never really live together.
| 285 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:56:26pm |
re: #235 Jimmah
And what about that Van Buren guy? Lets talk about that dipshit for a while///
Not quite the same. For one Van Buren has had the good manners not to bag on recent Presidents on worldwide cable news networks.
| 286 |
ArmyWife Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:56:33pm |
re: #279 Slumbering Behemoth
I know! I wasn't feeling oppressed in the least.
| 287 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:56:58pm |
re: #274 Danny
Basically a "fart in your general direction" type post. Not wise.
Dammit, Buzz left for the evening!
We need a parody on the song "Blue Moon".
| 288 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:57:31pm |
re: #278 NJDhockeyfan
I saw part of the latest ACORN video on Hannity a little while ago. Pretty shocking stuff.
Mr. Shit meets Mr. Fan.
| 289 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:57:39pm |
re: #283 tradewind
It burns me up that my tax dollars have gone to that cabal of thugs.
That ACORN woman admitted to killing her husband. I mean...WTF!!!
| 290 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:57:45pm |
Please let us remember that Obama is first and foremost a changeling, ready to do or say anything at anytime to anyone about anything in order to advance his own political popularity and personal power.
| 291 |
ArmyWife Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:57:47pm |
re: #287 pre-Boomer Marine brat
maybe if we say his name 3 times?
| 292 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:58:14pm |
re: #264 karmic_inquisitor
Is there a version of the word "splodeydope" that can be applied to the suicide flouncers?
How about "no ripcord"
| 293 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:58:38pm |
re: #289 NJDhockeyfan
That ACORN woman admitted to killing her husband. I mean...WTF!!!
And then turned around and threatened to kill someone else.
| 294 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:58:40pm |
BTW, Drudge is also now linking to the Limbaugh article I posted upthread.
| 295 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:58:45pm |
re: #288 brookly red
Mr. Shit meets Mr. Fan.
Andrew Breitbart hinted that tomorrows video is worse. How can that be?
| 296 |
Gus Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:59:01pm |
OT but I thought these poll results were interesting. It's regarding Joe Wilson's outburst.
These are the Republican numbers:
Support, thrilled: 9%
Support, not thrilled: 30%
No opinion: 8%
Oppose, not outraged: 44%
Oppose, outraged: 8%
[Link: theplumline.whorunsgov.com...]
Majority oppose.
| 297 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:59:08pm |
| 298 |
Danny Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:59:28pm |
re: #294 Killgore Trout
Hey, you could have a new career at Drudge Report!
| 299 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 6:59:42pm |
re: #290 Spare O'Lake
Please let us remember that Obama is first and foremost a changeling, ready to do or say anything at anytime to anyone about anything in order to advance his own political popularity and personal power.
Or maybe he really doesn't hate America after all.
I know that may be hard to wrap your mind around. But give it a try.
| 301 |
Pingemi Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:00:46pm |
The Patriot act is just as valuable as it was before.
The Foe is just as dangerous as it was before.
That doesn't mean that I like the president's domestic policy far from it, I've attended a tea party and I would strongly argue against cap and trade and obamacare.
But the primary duty of a president is to protect the country, particularly during times of war. On that score he has had a very good week. That's why on the war we can support him.
Eyes on the prize
| 302 |
mikalm Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:00:57pm |
re: #299 Charles
Or maybe he really doesn't hate America after all.
I know that may be hard to wrap your mind around. But give it a try.
One can love one's country, and still be a master politician.
| 303 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:01:08pm |
re: #295 NJDhockeyfan
Andrew Breitbart hinted that tomorrows video is worse. How can that be?
"From small things baby big things someday come."
| 304 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:01:09pm |
re: #293 JamesTKirk
And then turned around and threatened to kill someone else.
ACORN has a lot of thugs on staff. O'Keefe caught one in an unguarded moment. That's the sort of thing that really makes ACORN look bad.
| 305 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:01:21pm |
| 306 |
funky chicken Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:01:23pm |
re: #232 Charles
No, not "believing them when they say things."
More like "noticing when their talking points are the same as those of major right wing pundits."
Eh. I guess I see it as a thing where losers glom on to somebody prominent and claim the prominent person is their ally.
I'm a military wife, and I could enrage myself by reading ANSWER's website or Code Pink's website, and draw conclusions about liberal talk show folks and columnists based upon ANSWER's and Code Pink's likely support for those folks...but really, it's not good from a mental health standpoint.
I stopped reading Malkin back in 2006 because I couldn't take the outrage of the day mentality. If I'm stuck in a car I might turn on Limbaugh because sometimes he can be amusing, but I don't think I've heard his voice for almost a year now, come to think of it, because I knew he'd continue his decade-long pattern of cruel and crass "parodies" of John McCain, which I do find offensive as the wife of a military pilot.
I really am not telling Kilgore to shut up, just expressing concern that he shouldn't wade in cess pools like stormfront.
Now, if he could get a job with law enforcement doing extremist monitoring, then it would be worth it for him, perhaps. But as a hobby? Get a dog, or a bicycle. And yes, I am most likely old enough to be his mother, so perhaps I'm being a bit maternal.
| 307 |
ArmyWife Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:01:34pm |
Good night, group! I had an intense ride on my daughter's horse (who has more zing than my pokey steed) and should hit the showers for the good of America.
| 308 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:02:25pm |
Instapundit doing some race baiting today too...
Another attorney familiar with the inner workings of the Civil Rights Division agrees with this take. He observes that Department staff “openly and proudly advocate for a different standard” depending on the race of the alleged civil rights violator. He contends that this view extends now up to the attorney general and to staff attorneys who “say it openly at the Justice Department when the topic of ‘reverse’ discrimination comes up.”
I gotta stop reading these extremist sites!
/Mah Brainz Gonna Asplode!
| 309 |
jamgarr Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:02:31pm |
re: #299 Charles
Or maybe he really doesn't hate America after all.
I know that may be hard to wrap your mind around. But give it a try.
Doesn't that seem a little too rude to you Charles?
| 311 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:02:55pm |
re: #219 avspatti
Speaking of Obama's running (as all Presidents do) for re-election, what about making the presidency term six years without chance for re-election? I often think that would be better. Presidents could then focus on the country instead of themselves. What a concept!
How about we give them a sum of money to spend and when it's gone, they're out?
I'll bet they could make that money go a long, long, long, long way.
| 312 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:02:59pm |
re: #304 Dark_Falcon
ACORN has a lot of thugs on staff. O'Keefe caught one in an unguarded moment. That's the sort of thing that really makes ACORN look bad.
I'm sure it was just an isolated incident taken out of context.
I wonder how many more isolated incidents taken out of context they'll be showing us.
| 313 |
nordink Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:03:16pm |
I have visited the Drudge Report many times a day for many years, and I never noticed the Pat Buchanan link down there. Ugh!
(Even calling him "Pat" seems too friendly. At least "Patrick" sounds more formal and official, like a doctor identifying a specific type of horrible disease.)
Does anyone know of any big sites that have renounced Buchanan and called him out for what he is? Other than LGF, natch. ;-) Maybe Real Clear Politics deleted his last offensive Hitler apology? I hope for more sanity on the conservative side, but am sorely disappointed.
And, sorry, but have Drudge and Breitbart shown any affinity for other crazy white supremacist kooks? Or is promoting Buchanan the only instance?
| 314 |
swamprat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:03:24pm |
re: #296 Gus 802
think wilson is a loud moron...me
admire him for refusing to grovel...me
don't want non-news bs to pass as vital info...me again!
/ sick of msm
| 315 |
Jim in Virginia Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:03:30pm |
re: #297 pre-Boomer Marine brat
BUZZ
BUZZ
BUZZ!
You need to click your ruby red slippers together three times.
| 316 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:03:31pm |
re: #293 JamesTKirk
And then turned around and threatened to kill someone else.
I've not seen any of the ACORN hidden camera footage, but there is one thing that's been bugging me. They never stated how many ACORN offices they visited before finding ones with really stupid people working in them. If they went to 50 and only busted 3-4 people it paints a different picture than if they only went to 3-4 and found wackiness at all of them.
| 317 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:03:38pm |
re: #304 Dark_Falcon
ACORN has a lot of thugs on staff. O'Keefe caught one in an unguarded moment. That's the sort of thing that really makes ACORN look bad.
Seems he caught quite a few in unguarded moments. ACORN is finished because of these tapes. I can't see how they can explain away corruption when it's on videotape.
| 318 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:03:49pm |
re: #304 Dark_Falcon
ACORN has a lot of thugs on staff. O'Keefe caught one in an unguarded moment. That's the sort of thing that really makes ACORN look bad.
/Well they used to have a very good lawyer... to bad he moved on to bigger things.
| 319 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:03:55pm |
re: #299 Charles
Or maybe he really doesn't hate America after all.
I know that may be hard to wrap your mind around. But give it a try.
Interesting, and deserved being said.
/I never thought he "hates" America, just had a whole different mindset and set of priorities, but your point is something for me to think about.
| 320 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:05:07pm |
re: #255 tradewind
Re national security... it's one thing to spout your lefty stuff during the campaign, and quite another shocka when they hand you your first presidential daily briefing and you see from just how dangerous a world you now have sworn to protect the US . I would have loved to see the jaw-dropping that no doubt went on in some of those for TOTUS.
Agreed. The part here that burns me up is that it reveals these Marxist Alinskyites as either too stupid to understand this from the get-go, or too willing to lie and to literally mislead voters just to accomplish their power grab.
| 322 |
avanti Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:05:13pm |
re: #299 Charles
Or maybe he really doesn't hate America after all.
I know that may be hard to wrap your mind around. But give it a try.
That one thing I never could never wrap my mind around. Why would he hate America, what pissed him off ? Why not just pursue a law career for more money and less hassle. You might think his vision of love of country is far different than yours, perhaps even dangerous to some, but I don't question his patriotism.
| 323 |
Gus Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:05:23pm |
re: #314 swamprat
think wilson is a loud moron...me
admire him for refusing to grovel...me
don't want non-news bs to pass as vital info...me again!/ sick of msm
Yeah, I opposed it but don't think it's that big a deal. Move on as it were.
| 324 |
Erik The Red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:05:54pm |
re: #316 Conservative Moonbat
I've not seen any of the ACORN hidden camera footage, but there is one thing that's been bugging me. They never stated how many ACORN offices they visited before finding ones with really stupid people working in them. If they went to 50 and only busted 3-4 people it paints a different picture than if they only went to 3-4 and found wackiness at all of them.
Much like the few wack jobs paint everyone on the 9/12 march all wack jobs hey.
| 325 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:06:10pm |
re: #307 ArmyWife
Good night, group! I had an intense ride on my daughter's horse (who has more zing than my pokey steed) and should hit the showers for the good of America.
I thought this thread had an unusual air about it!
| 326 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:06:33pm |
re: #309 jamgarr
Doesn't that seem a little too rude to you Charles?
You mean, to keep hating Obama even when he does the right thing?
Yeah, it does seem a little too rude.
| 327 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:06:42pm |
re: #313 nordink
And, sorry, but have Drudge and Breitbart shown any affinity for other crazy white supremacist kooks? Or is promoting Buchanan the only instance?
There has been some discussion around here about RS McCain. A racist who also worked at the Wash Times for a long time as an editor. He's a fairly open racist.
| 328 |
sngnsgt Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:06:43pm |
re: #307 ArmyWife
Good night, group! I had an intense ride on my daughter's horse (who has more zing than my pokey steed) and should hit the showers for the good of America.
Thank's for being such a patriot ArmyWife, now go hit the showers.. ;-)
| 329 |
Capitalist Tool Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:06:56pm |
re: #290 Spare O'Lake
Please let us remember that Obama is first and foremost a changeling, ready to do or say anything at anytime to anyone about anything in order to advance his own political popularity and personal power.
He's locked into his new- kid- in- school persona, wanting everyone to accept him.
I happen to think he's right on this issue, regardless of his basic slipperiness.
Even Bill Clinton got it right a few times.
| 330 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:07:13pm |
re: #316 Conservative Moonbat
I've not seen any of the ACORN hidden camera footage, but there is one thing that's been bugging me. They never stated how many ACORN offices they visited before finding ones with really stupid people working in them. If they went to 50 and only busted 3-4 people it paints a different picture than if they only went to 3-4 and found wackiness at all of them.
RINO!
| 331 |
funky chicken Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:07:21pm |
LOL I quit reading Instapundit the first time he linked RS McCain approvingly. That was several months ago.
I guess I'm just into kook avoidance?
| 332 |
SteveC Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:07:36pm |
re: #303 brookly red
"From small things baby big things someday come."
"Nobody puts Baby in a corner." - RIP, Patrick.
| 333 |
tradewind Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:07:57pm |
re: #299 Charles
Why would he hate America? Look how well his country has treated him, from early childhood to the present.
But re the ' ready to do or say anything to get elected ', and the chameleon-esque ease with which he changes and shifts positions , the way he has of shedding shady associates like they were a molting skin...those are hard to refute.
| 335 |
Erik The Red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:08:30pm |
re: #316 Conservative Moonbat
I've not seen any of the ACORN hidden camera footage, but there is one thing that's been bugging me. They never stated how many ACORN offices they visited before finding ones with really stupid people working in them. If they went to 50 and only busted 3-4 people it paints a different picture than if they only went to 3-4 and found wackiness at all of them.
You are positioned with who/whom or what group you associate with.
| 336 |
nordink Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:08:31pm |
re: #327 Killgore Trout
Yes, LGF has opened my eyes to RS McCain. I didn't know Drudge linked to him, too. UGH.
| 337 |
jamgarr Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:08:45pm |
re: #326 Charles
You mean, to keep hating Obama even when he does the right thing?
Yeah, it does seem a little too rude.
As I'm sure you know, I meant your comment. I'm the last one to complain, and I tried to ask nicely but it seems to me that the snark is very heavy these days.
| 338 |
Abu Al-Poopypants Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:08:54pm |
re: #313 nordink
Um, Drudge also links to Shlafly, Reed, Limbaugh, Goodman, Hilton, Cramer, Paglia, Coulter, Clift... I don't think that linking to Buchanan is some sort of endorsement.
| 339 |
Charpete67 Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:08:58pm |
watch as the same people who criticized the patriot act, now support it.
| 340 |
Throbert McGee Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:09:04pm |
re: #6 Charles
And the people who loudly opposed the Patriot Act start to treat it like it's the best thing since sliced bread...
Not going to happen. The left wingers are very unhappy about Obama's failure to follow the left wing agenda.
I think you're right, but I hope you'll be proven wrong on this -- 'twould be a wondrous thing if the left would actually examine the Patriot Act in a level-headed way. (Some years ago, I had dinner with a lady Lizard who was a lawyer with a background in Constitutional law and who'd been hired as a consultant by the libertarian Cato Institute to vet the Patriot Act and find all the unconstitutional fishiness hidden therein. And she told me that ultimately, she'd been obliged by honesty to disappoint her clients somewhat.)
| 341 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:09:06pm |
re: #333 tradewind
Why would he hate America? Look how well his country has treated him, from early childhood to the present.
But re the ' ready to do or say anything to get elected ', and the chameleon-esque ease with which he changes and shifts positions , the way he has of shedding shady associates like they were a molting skin...those are hard to refute.
And he's the first politician to act that way?
cough
| 342 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:09:12pm |
re: #315 Jim in Virginia
You need to click your ruby red slippers together three times.
I'd be afraid of disturbing the lion in his Lahr.
| 343 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:09:28pm |
re: #281 Charles
I don't have much sympathy for the 'broad brush' argument. If you don't want to be associated with extremists, don't associate with extremists.
Seems pretty simple to me. But what do I know?
Understood and agreed. And hopefully as we move forward and people like yourself bring these associations to light, the people will start to understand that. But up to this point, I don't really think it's commonly known by most of the attendees that some of the tea party organizers are such objectionable characters. And when it comes to the Town Hall meeting attendees across the land, I think there are mostly good people in attendence who deserve better than to be ridiculed by the likes of nancy pelosi. Do you agree that there is a difference between attending individual Town Hall meetings and these mass Tea Party rallies? Because I see the cynics on the Democratic side painting both groups with a broad brush and I think it is unfair.
| 344 |
Throbert McGee Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:09:51pm |
re: #307 ArmyWife
Good night, group! I had an intense ride on my daughter's horse (who has more zing than my pokey steed) and should hit the showers for the good of America.
G'nite, stanky!
| 345 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:09:53pm |
re: #339 Charpete67
watch as the same people who criticized the patriot act, now support it.
Nope. They are very upset, actually. But thank you for playing.
| 346 |
swamprat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:10:06pm |
re: #326 Charles
You mean, to keep hating Obama even when he does the right thing?
Yeah, it does seem a little too rude.
jamgarr
Most of what I say here is either 1) sarcastic, 2) facetious, 3) ironic, 4) a 1/2-remembered quote from 30 year old pop culture or 5) nonsense.
---
Karma: 1,995
Registered since: Mar 28, 2005 at 8:11 am
(Logged in)
No. of comments posted: 5,464
No. of links posted: 3
Warning label right on the jar!
Interesting. Maybe I should do that.
| 348 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:10:12pm |
re: #317 NJDhockeyfan
Seems he caught quite a few in unguarded moments. ACORN is finished because of these tapes. I can't see how they can explain away corruption when it's on videotape.
These tapes do hurt, and they do take ACORN out the equation for the medium term. Long term is too soon to say. I'd guess that ACORN will be back, but not quickly and not this year.
| 349 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:10:14pm |
re: #290 Spare O'Lake
Please let us remember that Obama is first and foremost a changeling, ready to do or say anything at anytime to anyone about anything in order to advance his own political
popularity and personal poweragenda.
I'm willing to give him credit for doing what he thinks is right. I just do not agree with his conclusions.
| 350 |
aboo-Hoo-Hoo Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:10:21pm |
re: #270 Killgore Trout
Well, isn't that interesting. A whole bunch of puzzle pieces suddenly fit.
Ah-ha!
That makes sense, he finds something turns it over to Rush and Rush gets Beck/Palin to push it.
I'll have to sleep on this one.
| 351 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:10:24pm |
re: #333 tradewind
Why would he hate America? Look how well his country has treated him, from early childhood to the present.
But re the ' ready to do or say anything to get elected ', and the chameleon-esque ease with which he changes and shifts positions , the way he has of shedding shady associates like they were a molting skin...those are hard to refute.
Very Clintonesque.
| 352 |
Charpete67 Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:10:33pm |
| 353 |
Yankee Division Son Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:10:48pm |
re: #321 NJDhockeyfan
New ACORN tape on Greta right now.
That one is priceless. ACORN worker explains how she was in a troubled, abusive marriage, and how she then killed her husband.
/taken out context, and edited so she looks bad, of course...
| 355 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:11:44pm |
re: #299 Charles
Or maybe he really doesn't hate America after all.
I know that may be hard to wrap your mind around. But give it a try.
He doth not love America less;
It is just that he loveth himself more.
(BTW I never said President Obama hates America.)
| 356 |
jamgarr Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:11:52pm |
re: #346 swamprat
jamgarr
Most of what I say here is either 1) sarcastic, 2) facetious, 3) ironic, 4) a 1/2-remembered quote from 30 year old pop culture or 5) nonsense.
---Karma: 1,995
Registered since: Mar 28, 2005 at 8:11 am
(Logged in)No. of comments posted: 5,464
No. of links posted: 3Warning label right on the jar!
Interesting. Maybe I should do that.
I'd be glad to talk to you directly. Do you have a beef I can respond to?
| 357 |
tradewind Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:11:54pm |
re: #316 Conservative Moonbat
Huh??
Are you saying that if it's only a tiny number of rats' nests, that they're okay??
This is the flagship group that TOTUS worked/ organized for. This is a group that has sucked tax dollars for years. There is no acceptable level of rot, IMO.
| 358 |
SteveC Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:12:04pm |
re: #345 Charles
Nope. They are very upset, actually. But thank you for playing.
Oh, man. That sounds like there aren't going to be any lovely parting gifts.
| 359 |
ashimi Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:12:42pm |
I supported the Patriot Act. Then and now. The only problem with it is the danger if the wrong people get into power, so, I'll be watching.
In the meantime, the same people who screamed the loudest about the Patriot Act have remained dead silent on flag@whitehouse.gov and plans to give Obama control of the internet.
| 360 |
Charpete67 Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:12:47pm |
| 361 |
tradewind Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:13:09pm |
re: #341 Charles
Sigh. It's the Peter Principle in the WH.
So if they're all hypocrites, POTUS gets a pass.
| 362 |
swamprat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:13:14pm |
re: #316 Conservative Moonbat
I've not seen any of the ACORN hidden camera footage, but there is one thing that's been bugging me. They never stated how many ACORN offices they visited before finding ones with really stupid people working in them. If they went to 50 and only busted 3-4 people it paints a different picture than if they only went to 3-4 and found wackiness at all of them.
I bet magicians hate you. Look at the half naked assistant, that is what she is there for. Why would you want to watch the hands holding the rabbit?
| 363 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:13:49pm |
re: #362 swamprat
I bet magicians hate you. Look at the half naked assistant, that is what she is there for. Why would you want to watch the hands holding the rabbit?
LOL!
| 364 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:13:50pm |
I'm fine with the Patriot Act - I know that should be all caps.
Can I at least snicker at the Obama administration?
| 365 |
Danny Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:14:08pm |
| 367 |
Charpete67 Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:14:58pm |
re: #365 Danny
I think he means when Obama leaves office.
no...he was referring to my comment and Charles response.
| 370 |
lone_wolf_in_illinois Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:15:21pm |
re: #85 Charles
Heh. The lefty blogs really seem to like me now.
Not sure whether to feel flattered or cynically disgusted. They've been attacking me like rabid
chihuahuasmoonbats for years -- but as soon as I start criticizing the right, I'm OK?Maybe instead of worrying about it, I'll just pop open a Chimay Grand Reserve and kick back.
Hard to improve on this, but I gave it a shot!
| 371 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:15:34pm |
re: #316 Conservative Moonbat
I've not seen any of the ACORN hidden camera footage, but there is one thing that's been bugging me. They never stated how many ACORN offices they visited before finding ones with really stupid people working in them. If they went to 50 and only busted 3-4 people it paints a different picture than if they only went to 3-4 and found wackiness at all of them.
ACORN said that these folks visited "at least five" in whining about this obviously racist attack on ACORN employee's first amendment rights. But you know what? This is a scalar to me, not a ratio. The other number concerns me not in the least.
| 372 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:15:52pm |
"Happy birthday, I didn't get you a present...Oh, mom got you one? Well, that's from me then too, unless it's shitty."
| 373 |
mikalm Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:16:04pm |
re: #368 SteveC
Semi-funny comment #21,322. Sometime they work, often they don't.
Mileage may vary.
I "got it," anyway. (Too much of my childhood spent watching game shows...)
| 374 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:16:06pm |
re: #357 tradewind
Huh??
Are you saying that if it's only a tiny number of rats' nests, that they're okay??
This is the flagship group that TOTUS worked/ organized for. This is a group that has sucked tax dollars for years. There is no acceptable level of rot, IMO.
/8.4 BILLION ???
| 375 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:16:15pm |
| 377 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:16:56pm |
re: #364 Dianna
I'm fine with the Patriot Act - I know that should be all caps.
Can I at least snicker at the Obama administration?
Before I leave for the night ... are you over whatever bug you had?
| 378 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:17:01pm |
re: #348 Dark_Falcon
These tapes do hurt, and they do take ACORN out the equation for the medium term. Long term is too soon to say. I'd guess that ACORN will be back, but not quickly and not this year.
99% of the staff will be back at their desks with different letterhead.
| 379 |
PatriotLizardoid Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:17:05pm |
re: #355 Spare O'Lake
He doth not love America less;
It is just that he loveth himself more.
(BTW I never said President Obama hates America.)
Almost right. It's more like he loves himself SO much that he thinks he's just what we need. He wants a HUGE government because he hubristically thinks that HE can put into place one that works, because HE is just so darn awesome and benevolent.
Of course he's not going to change course on the Patriot Act! I doubt he's read the thing.
| 380 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:17:23pm |
re: #357 tradewind
Huh??
Are you saying that if it's only a tiny number of rats' nests, that they're okay??
This is the flagship group that TOTUS worked/ organized for. This is a group that has sucked tax dollars for years. There is no acceptable level of rot, IMO.
Not at all. Just that you can't accurately judge the situation if you don't have all the information and this is one bit of information that is being left out of these discussions. It's currently impossible to judge how much rot there is and how deep it gos.
| 381 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:17:24pm |
re: #371 haakondahl
ACORN said that these folks visited "at least five" in whining about this obviously racist attack on ACORN employee's first amendment rights. But you know what? This is a scalar to me, not a ratio. The other number concerns me not in the least.
Quite Concur. It's just scary than ACORN had this many rotten eggs. THat organization has shown repeated problems with personnel, and this is just the latest example.
| 382 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:18:10pm |
re: #377 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Before I leave for the night ... are you over whatever bug you had?
Yes. Still anxious and probably neurotic as hell, but I think that's my normal state of being.
| 383 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:18:22pm |
re: #375 Dianna
Hi, brookly - how's stuff?
Too good! Acorns roasting on an open fire, and it aint even X-mas :)
| 384 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:18:53pm |
re: #359 ashimi
In the meantime, the same people who screamed the loudest about the Patriot Act have remained dead silent on flag@whitehouse.gov and plans to give Obama control of the internet.
Oh noes!! Ware wil Iz gits mai free pr0n?
Free Gubmint pr0n? Do not want!
| 385 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:19:31pm |
Sooo ... how bout that kanye west? I haven't liked him since he called George Bush a racist after hurricane katrina. does anyone feel that he is a racist?
| 386 |
Danny Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:19:43pm |
re: #367 Charpete67
no...he was referring to my comment and Charles response.
Ah, now I understand. (Sleep-event horizon approaching.)
| 387 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:19:44pm |
re: #382 Dianna
Yes. Still anxious and probably neurotic as hell, but I think that's my normal state of being.
Good.
And I assume the other is regarding "the other". I can only hope that gets resolved.
| 388 |
tradewind Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:19:49pm |
re: #380 Conservative Moonbat
I really don't care how much there is. What I do care about is that no more federal money go down this rat hole, and that none of its camps be involved in anything such as a census (shudder... what a bullet we dodged there, thanks to the videos ) or other government business.
| 390 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:20:19pm |
re: #364 Dianna
I'm fine with the Patriot Act - I know that should be all caps.
Can I at least snicker at the Obama administration?
A silent snicker, maybe.
:D
| 391 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:20:30pm |
re: #381 Dark_Falcon
Quite Concur. It's just scary than ACORN had this many rotten eggs. THat organization has shown repeated problems with personnel, and this is just the latest example.
I wonder what would happen if someone infiltrated a Washington Times editorial meeting and recorded it?
| 392 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:20:31pm |
re: #384 Slumbering Behemoth
Oh noes!! Ware wil Iz gits mai free pr0n?
Free Gubmint pr0n? Do not want!
/Nancy does D.C.? no thank you...
| 393 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:21:14pm |
re: #378 haakondahl
99% of the staff will be back at their desks with different letterhead.
That is a very great pity.
Nonprofit world is full of great organizations, doing a lot of good with very little money. Yes, a lot of them are really naive, and don't keep as good an eye on either the money or the mission as one might like, but generally speaking, people in nonprofit world work for a pittance, and do their very best to really help. Sometimes, they work with people no one else even tries to reach. A lot of the time, they fail to help individuals, but they pour enormous effort into what they do.
ACORN is not one of those organizations.
| 394 |
swamprat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:21:15pm |
re: #356 jamgarr
Not complaining. Your description carries a built-in sarc tag. I think that might be a Good Idea.
Believe it or not, every once in a while, my own sarcasm is mis-interpreted.
Look, a chip on you shoulder; let me get that. You could get attached by a rabid beaver, or something.
| 397 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:22:23pm |
| 398 |
tradewind Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:22:27pm |
re: #391 Charles
Probably not nearly as dramatic as sitting in on one from the NYT.
Oh wait... someone did, years ago. It was Maureen Dowd, Gail Collins, Frank Rich, and Howell Raines in a hot tub...
| 399 |
jamgarr Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:22:37pm |
re: #394 swamprat
Not complaining. Your description carries a built-in sarc tag. I think that might be a Good Idea.
Believe it or not, every once in a while, my own sarcasm is mis-interpreted.
Look, a chip on you shoulder; let me get that. You could get attached by a rabid beaver, or something.
No problem
| 400 |
PatriotLizardoid Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:22:38pm |
BTW Charles, I do rather like the fumigation services you offer on both sides of the political spectrum, but I really do miss some of your really in depth reporting on terror busts (e.g. Queens is looking really serious). It would help to be able to get the facts without (a) the left/MSM totally ignoring and whitewashing the threat or (b) having to visit the right wing fever swamps and cringe through the comments to try to get details (which are probably hyperbole anyway).
So you just keep on providing me with free news, insight and analysis while I sit here in my bathrobe and do absolutely nothing... so um, get on that will ya?
| 401 |
SteveC Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:22:41pm |
re: #392 brookly red
/Nancy does D.C.? no thank you...
Well, *my* mighty oak just turned into a withered sapling...
| 402 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:22:41pm |
re: #385 _RememberTonyC
Sooo ... how bout that kanye west? I haven't liked him since he called George Bush a racist after hurricane katrina. does anyone feel that he is a racist?
Yes, but I don't care. The President quite meritoriously called him a jackass, and we should turn the page.
| 403 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:22:51pm |
re: #391 Charles
I wonder what would happen if someone infiltrated a Washington Times editorial meeting and recorded it?
That would be interesting but the Washington Times is not tax payer funded.
| 404 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:22:54pm |
re: #380 Conservative Moonbat
Not at all. Just that you can't accurately judge the situation if you don't have all the information and this is one bit of information that is being left out of these discussions. It's currently impossible to judge how much rot there is and how deep it gos.
Generally, your principle is correct.
When it comes to ACORN, as a nonprofit world denizen, I have severe doubts. I think the rot goes to the core.
| 405 |
Abu Al-Poopypants Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:22:54pm |
| 406 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:22:57pm |
re: #391 Charles
I wonder what would happen if someone infiltrated a Washington Times editorial meeting and recorded it?
Do you suppose it would resemble a New York Times editorial meeting in the reverse?
| 407 |
Salamantis Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:23:40pm |
re: #264 karmic_inquisitor
Is there a version of the word "splodeydope" that can be applied to the suicide flouncers?
Implodeydope?
| 408 |
Desert Dog Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:23:56pm |
re: #391 Charles
I wonder what would happen if someone infiltrated a Washington Times editorial meeting and recorded it?
It would be scary...but how many millions of government money to they take? And, are they up for billions more?
| 409 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:24:01pm |
| 410 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:24:11pm |
Out for the evening.
"Random Harvest" (with Greer Garson and ... uh ... who's th' guy?) calls
| 411 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:24:27pm |
re: #406 J.D.
Do you suppose it would resemble a New York Times editorial meeting in the reverse?
You don't think so, iceweasel?
| 412 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:24:30pm |
re: #391 Charles
I wonder what would happen if someone infiltrated a Washington Times editorial meeting and recorded it?
At least we'd be reading about it in the San Francisco Chronicle?
| 413 |
Charpete67 Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:24:51pm |
re: #393 Dianna
That is a very great pity.
Nonprofit world is full of great organizations, doing a lot of good with very little money. Yes, a lot of them are really naive, and don't keep as good an eye on either the money or the mission as one might like, but generally speaking, people in nonprofit world work for a pittance, and do their very best to really help. Sometimes, they work with people no one else even tries to reach. A lot of the time, they fail to help individuals, but they pour enormous effort into what they do.
ACORN is not one of those organizations.
...apparently if "most" of the people there are not helping people avoid taxes on their international child prostitution businesses, they should be given a break.
| 414 |
SteveC Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:24:57pm |
re: #402 haakondahl
Yes, but I don't care. The President quite meritoriously called him a jackass, and we should turn the page.
Yet Congressional Dems want Joe Wilson to apologize again... and again... and again... by the time he's through he'll have to apologize to every lamppost and mailbox in DC.
| 415 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:25:00pm |
re: #402 haakondahl
Yes, but I don't care. The President quite meritoriously called him a jackass, and we should turn the page.
Yes ... the Prez "stepped up" on that one too. Jay Leno had west squirming last night on his new show.
| 416 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:25:12pm |
re: #408 Desert Dog
It would be scary...but how many millions of government money to they take? And, are they up for billions more?
DD - I think they have been defunded.
| 417 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:25:14pm |
re: #409 brookly red
you don't really want me to click on that do you?
Yes. It's safe for work, and worth a giggle or two. Try it, you'll like it.
| 418 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:25:18pm |
re: #406 J.D.
Do you suppose it would resemble a New York Times editorial meeting in the reverse?
The hoops people are willing to jump through to excuse the WT and its associations with white supremacism and racism are amazing me.
I have no love for the NYT, but to compare the WT to them is crap.
The News That Fits
Long criticized for its brand of journalism, The Washington Times makes a habit of publishing the work of extremists — including the wife of the newspaper's managing editor
| 419 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:25:43pm |
re: #408 Desert Dog
It would be scary...but how many millions of government money to they take? And, are they up for billions more?
Right -- they're only providing you with the information you're using to make judgments about ACORN. What could go wrong?
| 420 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:25:59pm |
re: #391 Charles
I wonder what would happen if someone infiltrated a Washington Times editorial meeting and recorded it?
That might also prove dicey, but I doubt they'd be talking about how to cover up crimes. What these ACORN were doing was moral blindness of a truly appalling nature. The Washington Times has problems, but they don't facilitate crime.
| 421 |
Desert Dog Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:26:01pm |
re: #416 reine.de.tout
DD - I think they have been defunded.
Now...but what if those stories had not come to light?
| 422 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:27:11pm |
| 423 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:27:38pm |
re: #418 iceweasel
The national security issues the NYT "breaks" tends to bother me a great deal. Among a zillion other things they print.
| 424 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:27:39pm |
re: #413 Charpete67
...apparently if "most" of the people there are not helping people avoid taxes on their international child prostitution businesses, they should be given a break.
Don't get me started on ACORN.
Before this business, before the voter fraud issues, before most of you had heard of them, I detested them.
| 425 |
Desert Dog Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:27:42pm |
re: #419 Charles
Right -- they're only providing you with the information you're using to make judgments about ACORN. What could go wrong?
I have actually not read the Washington Times to find out about ACORN. There are thousands of other sources, not from the WT, that confirm what I think about that organization.
| 426 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:27:46pm |
re: #411 J.D.
You don't think so, iceweasel?
I see. And you'll downding me merely for linking to the SPLC report that proves that the WT has a long standing history of publishing and promoting white supremacists.
I have no respect for people who downding on the basis of not liking the facts provided to them.
| 427 |
avanti Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:28:04pm |
| 428 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:28:40pm |
re: #423 J.D.
The national security issues the NYT "breaks" tends to bother me a great deal. Among a zillion other things they print.
I've got a lot of issues with the NYT.
There's still no comparison with the WT. None.
| 430 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:29:12pm |
re: #426 iceweasel
I see. And you'll downding me merely for linking to the SPLC report that proves that the WT has a long standing history of publishing and promoting white supremacists.
I have no respect for people who downding on the basis of not liking the facts provided to them.
Back atcha.
| 431 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:29:55pm |
re: #429 viciouscircledammit
Bye now! Have fun storming the castle.
| 432 |
Throbert McGee Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:30:11pm |
I just got an email asking:
Subject: You're the only person who might know this that I can think of
How would you say, "The cat in my pants is on fire" in Latin?
I'm thinking Feles, qua in meis bracis est, conflagrat. (lit., "Cat, which in my trousers is, burns")
That's based on pulling my old Latin-English dictionary from high school off the shelves, plus my vague recollection of Latin inflection. (Feles is feminine, so it takes the feminine form of the relative pronoun; the closest thing my dictionary suggests for "trousers" is in the ablative plural to express location; and the 1st-conjugation verb conflagrare is present third-person indicative.)
| 433 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:30:22pm |
| 434 |
funky chicken Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:30:24pm |
re: #391 Charles
I wonder what would happen if someone infiltrated a Washington Times editorial meeting and recorded it?
They're owned by the Moonies, right? Let's just say that there's no risk I'm going to become a subscriber.
| 435 |
redneckkahfir Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:30:30pm |
re: #431 Charles
Bye now! Have fun storming the castle.
I just saw that happen in real time...very cool.
| 436 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:30:34pm |
re: #428 iceweasel
I've got a lot of issues with the NYT.
There's still no comparison with the WT. None.
Hah.
| 437 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:31:00pm |
re: #419 Charles
Right -- they're only providing you with the information you're using to make judgments about ACORN. What could go wrong?
Charles, ACORN is getting exactly what they deserve. The tapes are unedited (on purpose) and they are appalling.
The Washington Times is, as you say, despicable. But the game of moral equivalence hardly applies, does it?
| 438 |
What, me worry? Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:31:19pm |
re: #26 Jetpilot1101
Oh he's still pretty left wing but he is also smart enough to realize that on some issues, being far left just won't cut it. I think he is taking a page from Bill Clinton's playbook. He understands the stakes and knows that if he panders to the moveon.org crowd, he's sure to lose support among the centrists. This is a smart calculation in the game of political calculus.
If it's not too late to respond, I think Obama is doing exactly this. He's trying to support the Republicans. Not a bad idea at all.
Obama was firm on 4 things in the campaign, healthcare, taxes, education, energy. The taxes I'm more concerned about, particularly his pledge to lower taxes for the middle class. If nothing changes, I think he'll still be ok, but if he raises them, Democrats are going to be pissed. Way more pissed.
At any rate, these four things he wants to change and hard enough for anyone to take on in 4 years. The rest of the stuff, he's willing to support the Right. As a liberal, I'm not happy about the Patriot Act at all, but I understand what he's doing and I'm ok with it.
| 439 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:31:31pm |
re: #420 Dark_Falcon
That might also prove dicey, but I doubt they'd be talking about how to cover up crimes. What these ACORN were doing was moral blindness of a truly appalling nature. The Washington Times has problems, but they don't facilitate crime.
So far as we know, anyway.
| 440 |
Ojoe Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:31:48pm |
| 441 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:32:13pm |
re: #420 Dark_Falcon
What these ACORN were doing was moral blindness of a truly appalling nature.
Sort of. I watched parts of one of the videos earlier. Social workers often have to deal with some very questionable people it's part of their job. How do you advise a prostitute crack whore illegal imigrant with an 8thgrade education on filing her taxes? That's a very real problem and they have to deal with it all the time. You can't write that on your tax form. It's simply not an option.
| 442 |
avanti Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:32:23pm |
re: #433 brookly red
that is the question now isn't it?
Yes, that was my question or are we just posting numbers.
| 444 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:32:41pm |
re: #420 Dark_Falcon
That might also prove dicey, but I doubt they'd be talking about how to cover up crimes. What these ACORN were doing was moral blindness of a truly appalling nature. The Washington Times has problems, but they don't facilitate crime.
I suggest looking into the Moonie cult.
| 445 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:33:12pm |
re: #426 iceweasel
I see. And you'll downding me merely for linking to the SPLC report that proves that the WT has a long standing history of publishing and promoting white supremacists.
I have no respect for people who downding on the basis of not liking the facts provided to them.
Irrelevant with respect to ACORN.
I think we can all agree on disliking and distrusting the Washington Times, don't you?
| 446 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:33:14pm |
re: #430 J.D.
Back atcha.
You made a completely ridiculous assertion unbacked by fact. Then you got pissed when someone provided you facts.
Sorry, the NYT, for all its flaws, is not filled with white supremacists or racists, nor does it cite sources like VDARE as credible. In trying to claim they're anything like the WT, you're either attempting to minimise the failings of the WT or smear the NYT. Or both.
And I say that as someone with no love for the NYT. Less hyperbole, more accuracy, ok? And less keejerk "oh yeah well a lefty somewhere sometime did something bad too!" responses whenever something or someone on the right gets called out.
That's crap when the left does it, and no less crap when the right does.
| 447 |
Salamantis Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:33:23pm |
re: #316 Conservative Moonbat
I've not seen any of the ACORN hidden camera footage, but there is one thing that's been bugging me. They never stated how many ACORN offices they visited before finding ones with really stupid people working in them. If they went to 50 and only busted 3-4 people it paints a different picture than if they only went to 3-4 and found wackiness at all of them.
He claims that his total expenses amount to $1300, for 2 people, and he will itemize them and post them onsite. Hard to see how 2 people could hit very many ACORN offices in very many cities on that amount.
| 448 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:33:53pm |
re: #441 Killgore Trout
Sort of. I watched parts of one of the videos earlier. Social workers often have to deal with some very questionable people it's part of their job. How do you advise a prostitute crack whore illegal imigrant with an 8thgrade education on filing her taxes? That's a very real problem and they have to deal with it all the time. You can't write that on your tax form. It's simply not an option.
Then they shouldn't show them how to cheat on their tax returns. How do you explain the ACORN rep suggesting they bury money in the backyard?
| 449 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:34:08pm |
| 450 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:34:21pm |
re: #432 Throbert McGee
I just got an email asking:
I'm thinking Feles, qua in meis bracis est, conflagrat. (lit., "Cat, which in my trousers is, burns")
That's based on pulling my old Latin-English dictionary from high school off the shelves, plus my vague recollection of Latin inflection. (Feles is feminine, so it takes the feminine form of the relative pronoun; the closest thing my dictionary suggests for "trousers" is in the ablative plural to express location; and the 1st-conjugation verb conflagrare is present third-person indicative.)
My Latin is incredibly rusty, but that looks good to me.
| 451 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:35:00pm |
re: #445 Dianna
Irrelevant with respect to ACORN.
Irrelevant with respect to the discussion I was having, which has nothing to do with ACORN.
| 452 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:35:06pm |
re: #444 Charles
I suggest looking into the Moonie cult.
Which is why I always had questions, even when there was a story otherwise confirmed.
Strange stuff.
| 453 |
Desert Dog Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:35:13pm |
re: #438 marjoriemoon
If it's not too late to respond, I think Obama is doing exactly this. He's trying to support the Republicans. Not a bad idea at all.
Obama was firm on 4 things in the campaign, healthcare, taxes, education, energy. The taxes I'm more concerned about, particularly his pledge to lower taxes for the middle class. If nothing changes, I think he'll still be ok, but if he raises them, Democrats are going to be pissed. Way more pissed.
At any rate, these four things he wants to change and hard enough for anyone to take on in 4 years. The rest of the stuff, he's willing to support the Right. As a liberal, I'm not happy about the Patriot Act at all, but I understand what he's doing and I'm ok with it.
I would say that by continuing the Patriot Act, he is supporting the USA...not just the Republicans. I applaud Pres. Obama for looking at that at coming to that conclusion. He shows he can be flexible when it calls for it. For an ideologue, he has shown some flashes of good decisions.
| 454 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:36:18pm |
re: #432 Throbert McGee
I just got an email asking:
I'm thinking Feles, qua in meis bracis est, conflagrat. (lit., "Cat, which in my trousers is, burns")
That's based on pulling my old Latin-English dictionary from high school off the shelves, plus my vague recollection of Latin inflection. (Feles is feminine, so it takes the feminine form of the relative pronoun; the closest thing my dictionary suggests for "trousers" is in the ablative plural to express location; and the 1st-conjugation verb conflagrare is present third-person indicative.)
You need Cato the Elder for that one.
| 455 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:36:31pm |
re: #442 avanti
Yes, that was my question or are we just posting numbers.
that is what the nice ACORN people are/were going to get from the nice government people... surely you have read it.
| 456 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:37:39pm |
re: #441 Killgore Trout
You don't help them, the proper thing to do is to turn someone like that over to ICE for deportation or to the Vice Squad for arrest. The aim should be the removal of someone like that from the community.
| 457 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:38:20pm |
re: #441 Killgore Trout
Read the transcripts all the way through. They're a bit of an eye-opener. To say nothing of being much, much faster than trying to watch the whole vid.
| 458 |
jamgarr Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:38:48pm |
re: #456 Dark_Falcon
You don't help them, the proper thing to do is to turn someone like that over to ICE for deportation or to the Vice Squad for arrest. The aim should be the removal of someone like that from the community.
That's why they're known as community organizers instead of community improvers
| 459 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:38:52pm |
re: #264 karmic_inquisitor
Is there a version of the word "splodeydope" that can be applied to the suicide flouncers?
Flouncydope?
| 460 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:39:00pm |
Is there anything wrong with the Washington Examiner?
ACORN wants another $6 million despite scandals
An ACORN affiliate has just submitted applications for over $6 million in government funding, despite the controversial videos of the organization’s workers aiding a child prostitution “promoter.”
...ACORN Institute has filed two separate applications with the Commerce Department. One in the amount of $3,172,042 and the other in amount of $2,999,903.
The grant description reads as follows:
“The Digital Empowerment Project bridges the digital divide in low-income and minority populations by promoting adoption through grassroots outreach, training participants in computer centers; and providing in-home computers and broadband access. This approach is based on research-driven practices and ensures an efficient and scalable effort to facilitate broadband in disadvantaged populations.”
...As The Examiner has previously reported, ACORN remains eligible for over $8 billion in federal funding through stimulus money and the Department of Housing and Urban Development.
| 461 |
PatriotLizardoid Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:39:39pm |
re: #453 Desert Dog
I don't think there's a whole lot of strategy to Obama's decision to extend Patriot Act provisions. It's a safe play, and a no brainer. Now, how he's going to handle Israel, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, etc... etc... I have less confidence in simply because I think we elected someone way too "green" to the office.
I would have liked to see him run after serving 10 or so years in the Senate. It would have given him depth and edge that he lacks today. No matter how many good decisions he stumbles into, he gaffes so many that I just can't get behind him.
| 462 |
wiffersnapper Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:39:48pm |
Ron Paul must be livid. Then again, he always is.
| 463 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:39:49pm |
re: #456 Dark_Falcon
You don't help them, the proper thing to do is to turn someone like that over to ICE for deportation or to the Vice Squad for arrest. The aim should be the removal of someone like that from the community.
/but they might, you know, vote..
| 464 |
Ojoe Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:40:25pm |
re: #456 Dark_Falcon
Yes, removing them from the community would be a way of better organizing the community.
It would be something a community organizer would do.
| 465 |
gregb Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:40:26pm |
re: #3 TheMatrix31
And the people who loudly opposed the Patriot Act start to treat it like it's the best thing since sliced bread...
And we all breath a sigh of relief in the process for restoring a little sanity.
| 466 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:41:02pm |
re: #458 jamgarr
That's why they're known as community organizers instead of community improvers
I prefer the term "criminals".
| 467 |
Desert Dog Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:41:16pm |
re: #463 brookly red
/but they might, you know, vote..
I'll be glad to register you, Lupe. Sign here.
/Your friendly neighborhood ACORN rep.
| 468 |
What, me worry? Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:42:04pm |
re: #453 Desert Dog
I would say that by continuing the Patriot Act, he is supporting the USA...not just the Republicans. I applaud Pres. Obama for looking at that at coming to that conclusion. He shows he can be flexible when it calls for it. For an ideologue, he has shown some flashes of good decisions.
The Left doesn't see it that way. I don't see it that way, that he's supporting the USA. Speaking of government intrusion into your life, I'm not fond of wiretapping without a warrant. But you guys do and yes, he's being flexible. It's a political move and it's a good one.
| 469 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:42:18pm |
It's amazing how much less hate mail I get when I turn off the contact form, and take away the haters' anonymity.
If they want to send me hate messages, they have to use a real email account to do it. I know a lot of these people have my email address -- it isn't exactly difficult to find.
And yet, not a single hate mail all day. You'd almost think there was cowardice involved.
| 470 |
lawhawk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:42:19pm |
re: #316 Conservative Moonbat
Running with the statistics doesn't do ACORN any favors. Say they visited 10, and got this response at 4. 40%
Say they visited 20 - and got the 4 - 20%.
How many nonresponses do you want before it becomes acceptable?
| 471 |
Big Steve Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:42:58pm |
I think Obama has had a good week...renewing the Patriot Act...commenting publicly that the tone of the debate is too strident...called Kanye a jackass...giving a few rousing speeches to sympathetic unions...and it is only Tuesday. His approval rating with me has risen a few points.
| 472 |
tradewind Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:43:10pm |
re: #446 iceweasel
Sorry, the NYT, for all its flaws, is not filled with white supremacists or racists, nor does it cite sources like VDARE as credible.
No, it's full of Marxists and socialists, and there are definitely some racists in the mix: they're just not white. It cites completely incredible sources such as Moveon.org, and CAIR as credible.
| 473 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:43:15pm |
re: #467 Desert Dog
I'll be glad to register you, Lupe. Sign here.
/Your friendly neighborhood ACORN rep.
& here, & here, & here too...
| 474 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:43:19pm |
re: #463 brookly red
/but they might, you know, vote..
Yep, and by trying to get them to vote ACORN's way, ACORN is just behaving the characteristic manner of big city political machines. And I hate such machines with a passion, owing to the damage one of them has done to my home city of Chicago.
| 475 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:43:31pm |
re: #466 brookly red
I prefer the term "criminals".
Me, too. I keep getting to the point in each tape where our "pimp" and "prostitute" let the ACORN advisors know they're going to bring in underage girls for their brothel.
Normal people step out and call the police. They do not help you import girls to sell for sex.
| 476 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:43:35pm |
does anyone know what's up with realwest? I haven't seen him for a few days. is he OK?
| 478 |
Ojoe Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:43:54pm |
re: #469 Charles
It must be quite restful with the contact form turned off.
| 479 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:43:57pm |
re: #469 Charles
It's amazing how much less hate mail I get when I turn off the contact form, and take away the haters' anonymity.
If they want to send me hate messages, they have to use a real email account to do it. I know a lot of these people have my email address -- it isn't exactly difficult to find.
And yet, not a single hate mail all day. You'd almost think there was cowardice involved.
Just enjoy it.
| 480 |
Desert Dog Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:44:27pm |
re: #468 marjoriemoon
The Left doesn't see it that way. I don't see it that way, that he's supporting the USA. Speaking of government intrusion into your life, I'm not fond of wiretapping without a warrant. But you guys do and yes, he's being flexible. It's a political move and it's a good one.
My cynical side must be worn down from a tough day at the office. I am willing to take this decision at face value. He looked at what's going on, what the current intel tells him, what his advisors tell him...and he decided to continue it. But, you may be right, this may be all for political theatre.
| 481 |
Throbert McGee Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:44:39pm |
re: #420 Dark_Falcon
That might also prove dicey, but I doubt they'd be talking about how to cover up crimes. What these ACORN were doing was moral blindness of a truly appalling nature. The Washington Times has problems, but they don't facilitate crime.
The WaTmz* may not facilitate crime, but it facilitates immorality, as in bearing false witness against thy neighbor, whenever it prints a smeary over-generalization about homosexuals (for example), or when it whitewashes the blatant anti-darkie racism of someone like R.S. McCain. And although that's not a crime, it's corrosive to our culture, just as prostitution is. (And I see no point in arguing which is worse: the crime of prostitution, or the non-crime of perpetuating bigotry -- they're both stinky and corrosive, though not in the same way.)
*My suggested abbreviation, on the model of WaPo, and pronounced like "what-ums".
| 482 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:44:45pm |
Just a quick update from the mirror world site of extreme stupid...
This is pretty typical, really. Since evolutionism is not science, but is a philosophical predilection, it is very difficult for those who have had their whistles whetted by the thought that finally, this time around, they’ve refuted them doggone creationists to have to backtrack and admit that maybe they were a bit hasty. For them, doing so is, in a sense, a lot like having to recant a dearly held religious doctrine.
I could quote more of this rather silly screed full of inept scientific errors and willful misunderstandings. However, I will simply say that the stupid is strong over there...
and... well, I just got to say, I love people who use the word evolutionist...
| 483 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:45:00pm |
re: #476 _RememberTonyC
does anyone know what's up with realwest? I haven't seen him for a few days. is he OK?
He logged on today.
| 484 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:45:10pm |
re: #470 lawhawk
Running with the statistics doesn't do ACORN any favors. Say they visited 10, and got this response at 4. 40%
Say they visited 20 - and got the 4 - 20%.
How many nonresponses do you want before it becomes acceptable?
One is unacceptable. At least if you go through the whole thing!
| 485 |
Big Steve Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:45:23pm |
re: #470 lawhawk
Running with the statistics doesn't do ACORN any favors. Say they visited 10, and got this response at 4. 40%
Say they visited 20 - and got the 4 - 20%.
How many nonresponses do you want before it becomes acceptable?
So are those film clips admissible in any court of law?
| 486 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:45:26pm |
So anyway Charles, you mentioned some nice ant ID stuff for us? :)
| 487 |
jamgarr Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:45:32pm |
re: #476 _RememberTonyC
does anyone know what's up with realwest? I haven't seen him for a few days. is he OK?
I haven't spoken to him in a few days either. As you know, he doesn't like to complain but I think he's been a little down lately. Hope not.
| 488 |
Zoomie Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:45:37pm |
re: #438 marjoriemoon
At any rate, these four things he wants to change and hard enough for anyone to take on in 4 years. The rest of the stuff, he's willing to support the Right. As a liberal, I'm not happy about the Patriot Act at all, but I understand what he's doing and I'm ok with it.
As a conservative I am glad he is supporting monitoring of overseas calls to suspects in the US. I am also glad that his version of healthcare and energy are going down.
I am looking forward to the coming boom in Compressed Natural Gas transportation. North LA, Western N Dakota, Ft Worth and the Appalachians into PA are becoming the new Saudi Arabia of energy due to the vast supply of nat gas. The drillers and engineers are real old fashioned American heros. And I look forward to not buying as much imported gas from the Middle East.
| 489 |
funky chicken Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:46:08pm |
re: #441 Killgore Trout
Sort of. I watched parts of one of the videos earlier. Social workers often have to deal with some very questionable people it's part of their job. How do you advise a prostitute crack whore illegal imigrant with an 8thgrade education on filing her taxes? That's a very real problem and they have to deal with it all the time. You can't write that on your tax form. It's simply not an option.
You try to take the beautiful young lady aside and tell her to get out of that line of work, and that you are calling the police to come get the creepy bastard who brought her in.
And you tell her that ACORN has offices nationwide and you will help her move with help from one of those distant offices.
| 490 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:46:39pm |
re: #441 Killgore Trout
Sort of. I watched parts of one of the videos earlier. Social workers often have to deal with some very questionable people it's part of their job. How do you advise a prostitute crack whore illegal imigrant with an 8thgrade education on filing her taxes? That's a very real problem and they have to deal with it all the time. You can't write that on your tax form. It's simply not an option.
I'd love to hear a take from a working Social worker. The problem you throw out is legitimate enough though one presumes the Social worker has some ideas in dealing with such. Hell, it is ostensibley their job. I did a brief stint in that field years ago. I met a lot of lazy self-serving people there with terrific ideas on how to go along to get along. All about the budget. Of course this is anecdotal.
How much respect do I personally have for the ACORNS et all? Not much.
| 492 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:46:45pm |
re: #456 Dark_Falcon
You don't help them, the proper thing to do is to turn someone like that over to ICE for deportation or to the Vice Squad for arrest. The aim should be the removal of someone like that from the community.
The problem is that if you do that then nobody come to you for help because they're afraid of being arrested. Rudy talked about this during the campaign; If an Illegal alien calls the police after being raped of robbed you can't deport them because then they'd never call the police. There are some very real and practical considerations that have to be made.
| 493 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:47:04pm |
re: #469 Charles
It's amazing how much less hate mail I get when I turn off the contact form, and take away the haters' anonymity.
If they want to send me hate messages, they have to use a real email account to do it. I know a lot of these people have my email address -- it isn't exactly difficult to find.
And yet, not hate mails all day. You'd almost think there was cowardice involved.
BUt Charles that would mean actually engaging in a discussion like an adult.. It is so much easier to anonymously scribble stuff like a little kid...
| 494 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:47:27pm |
Did anyone see President Obama on TV the other day?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
| 495 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:47:32pm |
re: #475 Dianna
Exactly. If it was just a prostitute, as on the New York tape, I would understand and I wouldn't be too harsh about it. But the other three tapes show ACORN workers discussing how to hide child prostitution. To even talk about such a thing is to have a serious screw loose somewhere.
| 496 |
Killian Bundy Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:47:49pm |
45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul
Two of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan under consideration in Washington, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted, a new IBD/TIPP Poll has found.
The poll contradicts the claims of not only the White House, but also doctors' own lobby — the powerful American Medical Association — both of which suggest the medical profession is behind the proposed overhaul.
It also calls into question whether an overhaul is even doable; 72% of the doctors polled disagree with the administration's claim that the government can cover 47 million more people with better-quality care at lower cost.
The IBD/TIPP Poll was conducted by mail the past two weeks, with 1,376 practicing physicians chosen randomly throughout the country taking part. Responses are still coming in, and doctors' positions on related topics — including the impact of an overhaul on senior care, medical school applications and drug development — will be covered later in this series.
/well, that's not very encouraging
| 497 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:48:11pm |
re: #487 jamgarr
I haven't spoken to him in a few days either. As you know, he doesn't like to complain but I think he's been a little down lately. Hope not.
I believe I read on an earlier thread that he's on new medications, and they're making him sleepy.
| 498 |
MandyManners Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:48:34pm |
re: #486 ludwigvanquixote
So anyway Charles, you mentioned some nice ant ID stuff for us? :)
Nooo. No more flouncies!
| 499 |
sngnsgt Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:48:47pm |
re: #494 Spare O'Lake
Did anyone see President Obama on TV the other day?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
What day wasn't he on TV?
| 500 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:48:52pm |
re: #457 Dianna
Read the transcripts all the way through. They're a bit of an eye-opener. To say nothing of being much, much faster than trying to watch the whole vid.
Nah, I don't think I'll bother. I really don't care much about Acorn one way or the other. If they get their funding cut off it will go to some other group to do the same work. I really just don't see them as important to anything.
| 501 |
Desert Dog Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:49:08pm |
re: #494 Spare O'Lake
Did anyone see President Obama on TV the other day?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I missed it, but fear not, he'll be on tomorrow too...and the next day, and the next day, and the next day, and the next day, and the next day,and the next day, and the next day, and the next day, and the next day, and the next day,and the next day, and the next day, and the next day, and the next day, and the next day,and the next day, and the next day, and the next day, and the next day, and the next day...
| 502 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:49:22pm |
re: #475 Dianna
Me, too. I keep getting to the point in each tape where our "pimp" and "prostitute" let the ACORN advisors know they're going to bring in underage girls for their brothel.
Normal people step out and call the police. They do not help you import girls to sell for sex.
criminals. common criminals.
| 503 |
Big Steve Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:49:41pm |
re: #496 Killian Bundy
45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul
/well, that's not very encouraging
And do what? The only doctors that would quit are those who were planning to retire anyway. The rest...what other skills do they have that would bring in near what they would make in medicine.
| 504 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:49:43pm |
re: #492 Killgore Trout
The problem is that if you do that then nobody come to you for help because they're afraid of being arrested. Rudy talked about this during the campaign; If an Illegal alien calls the police after being raped of robbed you can't deport them because then they'd never call the police. There are some very real and practical considerations that have to be made.
I see, like helping a pimp and prostitute set up a whorehouse where underage girls would be abused and forced into prostitution.
Very progressive!
| 506 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:49:53pm |
re: #490 The Shadow Do
How much respect do I personally have for the ACORNS et all? Not much.
Me neither.
| 507 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:50:08pm |
| 508 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:50:10pm |
re: #446 iceweasel
You made a completely ridiculous assertion unbacked by fact. Then you got pissed when someone provided you facts.
Sorry, the NYT, for all its flaws, is not filled with white supremacists or racists, nor does it cite sources like VDARE as credible. In trying to claim they're anything like the WT, you're either attempting to minimise the failings of the WT or smear the NYT. Or both.
And I say that as someone with no love for the NYT. Less hyperbole, more accuracy, ok? And less keejerk "oh yeah well a lefty somewhere sometime did something bad too!" responses whenever something or someone on the right gets called out.
That's crap when the left does it, and no less crap when the right does.
Ice ... the NYT is a shell of its former self. Today I got another come-on from them to renew my subscription which was cancelled about 3 years ago. They always send a self addressed and postage paid return envelope. So I did what I always do when I get these opportunities. I write a very polite note telling them their paper is a piece of crap (I never cuss in these notes) and that I will consider renewing when they raise the quality of their paper to an acceptable level. Then I conclude by thanking them for allowing me to give them feedback where THEY pay for the postage. I hope to bankrupt them 44 cents at a time :)
| 509 |
What, me worry? Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:50:22pm |
re: #480 Desert Dog
My cynical side must be worn down from a tough day at the office. I am willing to take this decision at face value. He looked at what's going on, what the current intel tells him, what his advisors tell him...and he decided to continue it. But, you may be right, this may be all for political theatre.
I don't want to burst your bubble so I won't hehe. Sometimes it doesn't matter why someone does something, just that they do it, or don't do it as the case may be.
| 510 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:50:36pm |
re: #496 Killian Bundy
45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul
/well, that's not very encouraging
Horrifying!
| 511 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:50:39pm |
re: #492 Killgore Trout
The problem is that if you do that then nobody come to you for help because they're afraid of being arrested. Rudy talked about this during the campaign; If an Illegal alien calls the police after being raped of robbed you can't deport them because then they'd never call the police. There are some very real and practical considerations that have to be made.
True, and if this was an illegal who worked construction coming in for help I wouldn't have a problem with it. But when it is an admitted criminal, I have a serious problem with helping them avoid paying for their crimes.
| 512 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:51:05pm |
re: #500 Killgore Trout
Nah, I don't think I'll bother. I really don't care much about Acorn one way or the other. If they get their funding cut off it will go to some other group to do the same work. I really just don't see them as important to anything.
I think you are rather missing an education, but...whatever.
| 513 |
avanti Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:51:18pm |
| 514 |
lawhawk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:51:25pm |
re: #485 Big Steve
That's going to depend on the state and how it's used. It definitely can be used by prosecutors as a jumping off point to launch an investigation.
Right now, the salaciousness of the California clip may be the name dropping and the claims by the woman that she killed someone, but it isn't germane to the discussion that she provided substantially similar advice to the duo making the video and that she appeared to have no problem doing so.
ACORN is apparently operating without a proper license in MD. That's pretty substantial, although the fines for that are chump change. It's the appearance of impropriety, and that appearance become all the more apparent with each passing video.
| 515 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:51:27pm |
re: #483 Charles
He logged on today.
Thanks Charles ... I guess he doesn't feel like commenting. I hope he is doing OK and if you're lurking, realwest ... your pals are thinking of you!
| 517 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:51:38pm |
re: #393 Dianna
That is a very great pity.
Nonprofit world is full of great organizations, doing a lot of good with very little money. Yes, a lot of them are really naive, and don't keep as good an eye on either the money or the mission as one might like, but generally speaking, people in nonprofit world work for a pittance, and do their very best to really help. Sometimes, they work with people no one else even tries to reach. A lot of the time, they fail to help individuals, but they pour enormous effort into what they do.
ACORN is not one of those organizations.
Well said.
| 518 |
Randall Gross Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:51:53pm |
Well Obama's read his Heraclitus:
Some commentators have suggested that Obama could suffer the same fate as 1960s Democratic president Lyndon Johnson, who saw his reformist administration eventually consumed by an entanglement in a war half a world away.
But Obama, who is aiming to enact a hugely ambitious domestic agenda while dealing with multiple crises abroad, rejected the comparison. “You have to learn lessons from history. On the other hand, each historical moment is different,” Obama said in a joint interview with the New York Times and CNBC on Tuesday.
“You never step into the same river twice. And so Afghanistan is not Vietnam.” The president added in the interview, however, that he thought all the time about the dangers of overreach in Afghanistan and of not having clear goals or strong support from the American people on the war.
[Link: www.thenews.com.pk...]
| 519 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:52:03pm |
re: #505 Dianna
Please, read the transcripts.
Why? I don't care about acorn. You guys can freak out all day long about it but I just can't get worked up about an irrelevant group of social workers. If they lose government funding you won't hear a peep out of me about it. I don't care.
| 520 |
sngnsgt Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:52:05pm |
re: #496 Killian Bundy
Wow, that sounds like a significant number.
| 521 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:52:46pm |
re: #513 avanti
Not 8.4 billion, it's 31 million since 1998.
I guess you missed that whole stimulis package thing huh?
| 522 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:52:48pm |
re: #498 MandyManners
Nooo. No more flouncies!
your whacking stick arm getting tired Mandy? I think the sooner we piss'em off the sooner we flush them... And good riddance.
| 523 |
avanti Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:53:07pm |
re: #519 Killgore Trout
Why? I don't care about acorn. You guys can freak out all day long about it but I just can't get worked up about an irrelevant group of social workers. If they lose government funding you won't hear a peep out of me about it. I don't care.
Amen, at least we won't hear about them any more.
| 524 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:54:13pm |
re: #489 funky chicken
You try to take the beautiful young lady aside and tell her to get out of that line of work, and that you are calling the police to come get the creepy bastard who brought her in.
And you tell her that ACORN has offices nationwide and you will help her move with help from one of those distant offices.
Indeed. Start from the presumption that all pimped prostitution is slavery, and a great deal of that is human trafficking. You don't answer pimps' questions--you break a chair across a pimp's teeth.
| 525 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:54:16pm |
wait...I'm starting to feel it...Yes, ACORN is bothering me...concentrate...hold on...almost there...try harder...
/Damn, I lost it.
//Don't care
| 526 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:54:25pm |
re: #516 taxfreekiller
We should be nice, its possible we have some A.C.O.R.N. workers who post on lgf's, is there a way to get any who post here to let us know, it is possible.
That would be one way to get both sides of the story.
Good one.
| 527 |
Throbert McGee Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:54:40pm |
re: #475 Dianna
Me, too. I keep getting to the point in each tape where our "pimp" and "prostitute" let the ACORN advisors know they're going to bring in underage girls for their brothel.
Normal people step out and call the police. They do not help you import girls to sell for sex.
What I saw in the videos was not ACORN aiding and abetting child prostitution, but employees of ACORN who lacked the training and experience to deal with off-the-wall questions, and therefore just chose to wing it (badly). Which means that they're not very good management material, but that doesn't mean ACORN at the institutional level tends to facilitate child prostitution.
| 528 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:55:05pm |
re: #511 Dark_Falcon
True, and if this was an illegal who worked construction coming in for help I wouldn't have a problem with it. But when it is an admitted criminal, I have a serious problem with helping them avoid paying for their crimes.
To be fair, a prostitute trying to straighten out her life, I'd be in entire sympathy with, and I know a number of organizations that exist for that reason only. But! A prostitute and a pimp trying to open a brothel? Never mind the underage girls issue. And I'm willing to consider arguments as to whether a consensually staffed brothel is safer for sex workers and so on, by the way.
I don't think it's in anyone's interest to go into great detail how to start a brothel and hide the income.
| 529 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:55:06pm |
And to all you socks... a special tribute...
| 530 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:55:15pm |
re: #519 Killgore Trout
Why? I don't care about acorn. You guys can freak out all day long about it but I just can't get worked up about an irrelevant group of social workers. If they lose government funding you won't hear a peep out of me about it. I don't care.
irrelevant group of social workers willing to aid child prostitution...
| 531 |
lawhawk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:55:18pm |
re: #513 avanti
$31 million in direct funding from the feds so far, but ACORN has had access to a whole lot more than that over the years. It receives funding from multiple state and local sources, and its involvement in various federal affordable housing initiatives means that they're point on those programs. Without the imprimatur of the federal funds, states would be a whole lot less likely to provide similar funding.
Much of those functions should go elsewhere - to programs that do a far better job in providing affordable housing and vetting not only those who work for them, but those who receive the funds to buy homes - like Nehemiah Housing.
| 533 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:55:32pm |
re: #513 avanti
Not 8.4 billion, it's 31 million since 1998.
Big rise coming, though. Except now they've been defunded.
| 534 |
jamgarr Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:55:53pm |
re: #525 Killgore Trout
wait...I'm starting to feel it...Yes, ACORN is bothering me...concentrate...hold on...almost there...try harder...
/Damn, I lost it.
//Don't care
Sounds like you're ambivalent about the whole apathy thing.
| 535 |
Mich-again Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:56:08pm |
re: #475 Dianna
Have their been any RICO violations? Two or more could theoretically trigger a case.
RICO offensesUnder the law, racketeering activity means:
* Any violation of state statutes against gambling, murder, kidnapping, extortion, arson, robbery, bribery, dealing in obscene matter, or dealing in a controlled substance or listed chemical (as defined in the Controlled Substances Act);
* Any act of bribery, counterfeiting, theft, embezzlement, fraud, dealing in obscene matter, obstruction of justice, slavery, racketeering, gambling, money laundering, commission of murder-for-hire, and several other offenses covered under the Federal criminal code (Title 18);
* Embezzlement of union funds;
* Bankruptcy or securities fraud;
* Drug trafficking;
* Money laundering and related offenses;
* Bringing in, aiding or assisting aliens in illegally entering the country (if the action was for financial gain);
* Acts of terrorism.
| 536 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:56:35pm |
re: #472 tradewind
No, it's full of Marxists and socialists, and there are definitely some racists in the mix: they're just not white.
Find me the SPLC report on their racist associations and I'll be happy to read it. Until then? Sorry.
| 537 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:56:49pm |
re: #492 Killgore Trout
The problem is that if you do that then nobody come to you for help because they're afraid of being arrested. Rudy talked about this during the campaign; If an Illegal alien calls the police after being raped of robbed you can't deport them because then they'd never call the police. There are some very real and practical considerations that have to be made.
Start with the consideration that "that which gets rewarded gets repeated", and design policy, as well as individual actons (which need not be the same) from there. Pardon me for walking in late, but are you saying you would simply provide the requested tax advice, and wish the young master and his property a good day?
| 538 |
Jimmah Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:56:52pm |
re: #525 Killgore Trout
wait...I'm starting to feel it...Yes, ACORN is bothering me...concentrate...hold on...almost there...try harder...
/Damn, I lost it.
//Don't care
Sigh...you will never be tea party material at this rate, Killgore.
| 539 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:57:06pm |
| 540 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:57:22pm |
I'm about ready to say goodnight, but before I do ... be well everyone and continue to occupy the moral high ground. As long as you do that, your motives in criticizing the administration will be credible. Give props when they are due, but don't be afraid to offer legitimate criticism for fear of being called a racist or some other name. Credibility is everything and you should always have the courage of your convictions.
Sweet Dreams ...
| 541 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:57:29pm |
re: #527 Throbert McGee
What I saw in the videos was not ACORN aiding and abetting child prostitution, but employees of ACORN who lacked the training and experience to deal with off-the-wall questions, and therefore just chose to wing it (badly). Which means that they're not very good management material, but that doesn't mean ACORN at the institutional level tends to facilitate child prostitution.
My, my, my...
| 542 |
avanti Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:57:30pm |
re: #521 brookly red
I guess you missed that whole stimulis package thing huh?
Nope, give me a link, you may know something I don't. For example, any mention of ACORN funding in that bill.
| 543 |
lawhawk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:57:53pm |
re: #531 lawhawk
In New York alone, $575,000 in the past year - and much of that is broken up in to smaller parts doled out by legislators as member items.
One member has put his member item on hold pending the investigation.
| 544 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:57:54pm |
re: #521 brookly red
I guess you missed that whole stimulis package thing huh?
Avanti is using 990's, which only covers 2007/08 fiscal year. His number's more-or-less correct. He'd have to dig a little further - there's state and local grants, HUD grants, and a few others that lead to a substantially higher amount. But the basic figure is correct.
| 545 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:58:45pm |
re: #527 Throbert McGee
What I saw in the videos was not ACORN aiding and abetting child prostitution, but employees of ACORN who lacked the training and experience to deal with off-the-wall questions, and therefore just chose to wing it (badly). Which means that they're not very good management material, but that doesn't mean ACORN at the institutional level tends to facilitate child prostitution.
I suggest you re-read the transcripts. They're quite clear (except the Baltimore tax lady, who clearly freaked) on what's happening.
| 546 |
funky chicken Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:58:53pm |
re: #500 Killgore Trout
Nah, I don't think I'll bother. I really don't care much about Acorn one way or the other. If they get their funding cut off it will go to some other group to do the same work. I really just don't see them as important to anything.
but you read stormfront all the time? ACORN gets your tax dollars and uses it for vote fraud (several actual indictments, not just WaTimes stories) and advising people on how to get federal benefits and perhaps avoid paying taxes themselves.
| 547 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:59:04pm |
re: #527 Throbert McGee
What I saw in the videos was not ACORN aiding and abetting child prostitution, but employees of ACORN who lacked the training and experience to deal with off-the-wall questions, and therefore just chose to wing it (badly). Which means that they're not very good management material, but that doesn't mean ACORN at the institutional level tends to facilitate child prostitution.
Then ACORN shouldn't receive a dime of taxpayer money until they can show they have their every employee trained. I can't stomach many more videos knowing some of my money paid for that shit.
| 548 |
Throbert McGee Tue, Sep 15, 2009 7:59:44pm |
| 549 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:00:06pm |
re: #544 Dianna
Avanti is using 990's, which only covers 2007/08 fiscal year. His number's more-or-less correct. He'd have to dig a little further - there's state and local grants, HUD grants, and a few others that lead to a substantially higher amount. But the basic figure is correct.
and what are/were they slated to get?
| 550 |
avanti Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:00:08pm |
re: #531 lawhawk
$31 million in direct funding from the feds so far, but ACORN has had access to a whole lot more than that over the years. It receives funding from multiple state and local sources, and its involvement in various federal affordable housing initiatives means that they're point on those programs. Without the imprimatur of the federal funds, states would be a whole lot less likely to provide similar funding.
Much of those functions should go elsewhere - to programs that do a far better job in providing affordable housing and vetting not only those who work for them, but those who receive the funds to buy homes - like Nehemiah Housing.
Fair enough, but billions ? That's the figure being tossed around and it's as bogus as 2 million at the 9-12 demonstration. ACORN has never approached that level.
| 551 |
VioletTiger Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:00:10pm |
re: #513 avanti
Not 8.4 billion, it's 31 million since 1998.
Almost $900K from the Obama campaign for staging and lighting to get out the vote
| 552 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:00:19pm |
re: #546 funky chicken
but you read stormfront all the time? ACORN gets your tax dollars and uses it for vote fraud (several actual indictments, not just WaTimes stories) and advising people on how to get federal benefits and perhaps avoid paying taxes themselves.
Voter registration fraud, not voter fraud. And the organisation as a whole has several times been explicitly exonerated of complicity in that. They're even turned in their own workers when they suspected it.
| 553 |
funky chicken Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:00:20pm |
re: #528 Dianna
To be fair, a prostitute trying to straighten out her life, I'd be in entire sympathy with, and I know a number of organizations that exist for that reason only. But! A prostitute and a pimp trying to open a brothel? Never mind the underage girls issue. And I'm willing to consider arguments as to whether a consensually staffed brothel is safer for sex workers and so on, by the way.
I don't think it's in anyone's interest to go into great detail how to start a brothel and hide the income.
I have donated to such organizations in the past. They do amazing work for these women and any children they have.
| 554 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:00:21pm |
re: #519 Killgore Trout
Why? I don't care about acorn. You guys can freak out all day long about it but I just can't get worked up about an irrelevant group of social workers. If they lose government funding you won't hear a peep out of me about it. I don't care.
Oh good, but wait, there's more: Isn't there a teensy, little, nagging hangnail of a problem about the POTUS perhaps owing ACORN some favours or political payback for their past assistance in furthering his political career?
| 555 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:01:01pm |
re: #519 Killgore Trout
Why? I don't care about acorn. You guys can freak out all day long about it but I just can't get worked up about an irrelevant group of social workers. If they lose government funding you won't hear a peep out of me about it. I don't care.
Fine.
I'm a nonprofit girl. I care.
| 556 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:01:15pm |
re: #547 NJDhockeyfan
Then ACORN shouldn't receive a dime of taxpayer money until they can show they have their every employee trained. I can't stomach many more videos knowing some of my money paid for that shit.
they are trained, that is the freakin problem.
| 558 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:01:41pm |
So, it's a thread about Obama and the Patriot Act, but everyone wants to argue about ACORN, and claim that the NYT is just as bad, if not worse, than the WT.
I'll be out of here for a while. Cheers, folks.
| 559 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:02:28pm |
re: #548 Throbert McGee
What does that mean?
What I saw in the videos was not ACORN aiding and abetting child prostitution, but employees of ACORN who lacked the training and experience to deal with off-the-wall questions
| 560 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:02:30pm |
re: #527 Throbert McGee
What I saw in the videos was not ACORN aiding and abetting child prostitution, but employees of ACORN who lacked the training and experience to deal with off-the-wall questions, and therefore just chose to wing it (badly). Which means that they're not very good management material, but that doesn't mean ACORN at the institutional level tends to facilitate child prostitution.
In Reverse order:
...that doesn't mean ACORN at the institutional level tends to facilitate child prostitution.
It doesn't have to. What we have seen so far a far more than enough, because:
employees of ACORN who lacked the training and experience to deal with off-the-wall questions
The whole point of having a federally-funded organization with points of presence in shall we say "troubled" neighborhoods is to provide trained and experienced personnel to deal with off-the-wall questions. Instead, we see case after case of:
ACORN aiding and abetting [presumed] child prostitution
.
ACORN, especially the Housing side, exists solely to provide a service that instead is being used against the people in the neighborhoods and the government.
| 561 |
brandon13 Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:02:31pm |
re: #496 Killian Bundy
45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul
/well, that's not very encouraging
I have a difficult time trusting any of these health care polls, no matter which side the numbers support.
| 562 |
Wendya Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:02:38pm |
re: #391 Charles
I wonder what would happen if someone infiltrated a Washington Times editorial meeting and recorded it?
Hopefully, they wouldn't be giving out tax advice on how to claim underage hookers from El Salvador as your dependents.
| 563 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:02:40pm |
And for all the banned ones who have found ways to make socks...
We miss you and dedicate this...
| 564 |
lawhawk Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:02:44pm |
re: #527 Throbert McGee
They certainly displayed a certain moral flexibility in providing advice on how to break the law. That goes to training, but what else does it say about the organization when these are some of the same people making decisions and informing other people on how to engage in certain real estate transactions and other business dealings.
| 565 |
avanti Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:02:49pm |
re: #544 Dianna
Avanti is using 990's, which only covers 2007/08 fiscal year. His number's more-or-less correct. He'd have to dig a little further - there's state and local grants, HUD grants, and a few others that lead to a substantially higher amount. But the basic figure is correct.
If someone provides me a link to the 8 billion dollar figure, I'll drop it. 31 million since 1998, is a long way from the 8 billion number that was posted.
| 566 |
What, me worry? Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:03:14pm |
re: #488 Zoomie
As a conservative I am glad he is supporting monitoring of overseas calls to suspects in the US. I am also glad that his version of healthcare and energy are going down.
I am looking forward to the coming boom in Compressed Natural Gas transportation. North LA, Western N Dakota, Ft Worth and the Appalachians into PA are becoming the new Saudi Arabia of energy due to the vast supply of nat gas. The drillers and engineers are real old fashioned American heros. And I look forward to not buying as much imported gas from the Middle East.
I'm not fond of the government making the decision to monitor my privacy. I don't think anybody should. If the Patriot Act didn't exist and it was Obama promoting it today, I think all hell would break lose.
The rest of your post I take as snark, yes? Energy will be Obama's next major battle, if he really gets to it. I hope he does and I hope he sticks to his ideas of alternative fuel sources. I'd like to see nuclear energy grow, altho disposal is a problem. Solar and wind, too. In fact, most of the large energy companies are already well into solar and wind research.
| 567 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:03:25pm |
re: #535 Mich-again
I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV, so I can't even begin to guess.
| 569 |
Throbert McGee Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:03:33pm |
re: #547 NJDhockeyfan
Then ACORN shouldn't receive a dime of taxpayer money until they can show they have their every employee trained. I can't stomach many more videos knowing some of my money paid for that shit.
Well, that's fair enough. The videos do show ACORN workers being incompetent and unprofessional -- and the voter registration fraud, as distinct from voting fraud, shows that too. So cutting their tax subsidies until they shape up is entirely fair. But slovenly incompetence and lack of professionalism is different from racketeering.
| 570 |
MandyManners Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:04:19pm |
re: #500 Killgore Trout
Nah, I don't think I'll bother. I really don't care much about Acorn one way or the other. If they get their funding cut off it will go to some other group to do the same work. I really just don't see them as important to anything.
You don't think taking our money and then telling people how to run illegal alien child prostitutes is important?
| 571 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:04:30pm |
re: #552 iceweasel
Voter registration fraud, not voter fraud. And the organisation as a whole has several times been explicitly exonerated of complicity in that. They're even turned in their own workers when they suspected it.
That last proves little. Political Machines often throw their low-level people under the bus if they become an embarrassment. What this scandal proves is that ACORN offices in too many cases are staffed by people who are morally blind. ACORN needs to do a housecleaning, because this does not strike me as a case of one or two bad apples.
| 572 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:04:44pm |
re: #552 iceweasel
Voter registration fraud, not voter fraud. And the organisation as a whole has several times been explicitly exonerated of complicity in that. They're even turned in their own workers when they
suspected ithad their nuts in a vise.
My, my, my
| 573 |
PatriotLizardoid Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:05:13pm |
re: #569 Throbert McGee
Facilitating child prostitution is not "incompetence" and it's not just "unprofessional". It is EVIL.
| 574 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:05:14pm |
re: #542 avanti
Nope, give me a link, you may know something I don't. For example, any mention of ACORN funding in that bill.
well if you googel the first one is [Link: forums.teenhelp.org...] but there are many others... could take a month or 2 to read em all.
| 575 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:05:47pm |
re: #555 Dianna
Fine.
I'm a nonprofit girl. I care.
Good one. And I wonder, what do they call non-profit prostitution?
| 576 |
VioletTiger Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:05:50pm |
re: #570 MandyManners
You don't think taking our money and then telling people how to run illegal alien child prostitutes is important?
Charlie Gibson doesn't...
| 578 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:06:50pm |
re: #570 MandyManners
You don't think taking our money and then telling people how to run illegal alien child prostitutes is important?
/no, tea partys that's important!
| 579 |
Throbert McGee Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:06:50pm |
re: #560 haakondahl
ACORN, especially the Housing side, exists solely to provide a service that instead is being used against the people in the neighborhoods and the government.
Upding for that entire post. The thing to understand is that THERE IS NO CABAL.
| 580 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:06:51pm |
re: #549 brookly red
and what are/were they slated to get?
Over-all, what I tend to lose track of and start gibbering "lots and lots and lots and lots." I think it's linked above, in a couple places, and my google-fu has never been the greatest.
| 581 |
Salamantis Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:07:08pm |
re: #569 Throbert McGee
Well, that's fair enough. The videos do show ACORN workers being incompetent and unprofessional -- and the voter registration fraud, as distinct from voting fraud, shows that too. So cutting their tax subsidies until they shape up is entirely fair. But slovenly incompetence and lack of professionalism is different from racketeering.
Actually, they show ACORN workers engaging in criminal conspiracy to defraud and to conceal criminal activity involving the importation and housing of illegal alien minors for the purpose of prostitution.
I guess that
| 582 |
swamprat Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:07:08pm |
re: #575 Spare O'Lake
Good one. And I wonder, what do they call non-profit prostitution?
Political orgs.
| 583 |
razorbacker Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:07:16pm |
Question for Avanti:
'64 Lark 4 door. All glass good. Air. Solid car. was a daily driver until last year. Body not rusted, no dents, repainted who knows how many times. Actually, now that I think on it, it's in really good shape. $1200.
How's the price?
| 584 |
Jimmah Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:07:39pm |
| 585 |
Erik The Red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:07:57pm |
re: #562 Wendya
Hey Wendya, did you get my mail? Some more should be coming shortly. Check both your addies. :)))
| 586 |
Sharmuta Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:07:58pm |
re: #566 marjoriemoon
The rest of your post I take as snark, yes? Energy will be Obama's next major battle, if he really gets to it. I hope he does and I hope he sticks to his ideas of alternative fuel sources. I'd like to see nuclear energy grow, altho disposal is a problem. Solar and wind, too. In fact, most of the large energy companies are already well into solar and wind research.
It's past research- wind farms are coming. I would expect more than a few in the next 5 years.
| 587 |
Salamantis Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:08:15pm |
re: #581 Salamantis
Actually, they show ACORN workers engaging in criminal conspiracy to defraud and to conceal criminal activity involving the importation and housing of illegal alien minors for the purpose of prostitution.
I guess that
...is rather incompetent and unprofesssional of them...
PIMF
| 588 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:08:22pm |
re: #459 SanFranciscoZionist
Flounceydopes and splodeydopes,
And little minds scream "nazi",
A Beck'll cry "nazi" too, but not you
/Buzzsaw I ain't
| 589 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:08:28pm |
re: #565 avanti
If someone provides me a link to the 8 billion dollar figure, I'll drop it. 31 million since 1998, is a long way from the 8 billion number that was posted.
ACORN got $53 million in federal funds since 94, now eligible for up to $8 billion more
| 590 |
MandyManners Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:08:40pm |
Haven't 30 ACORNers been convicted of voter registration fraud?
| 591 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:08:42pm |
re: #537 haakondahl
Pardon me for walking in late, but are you saying you would simply provide the requested tax advice, and wish the young master and his property a good day?
Sort of, yes. If you are going to give tax advice to poor people who live in the inner city you have to be prepared to deal with illegal activity. If it were up to me I'd suggest that prostitutes and drug dealers file taxes as 'street vendors' and pay appropriate state and federal tax. But now that I think about it there's probably a license thing with street vendors so that might not work. I guess you could just arrest them on the spot but everybody else would probably vacate the waiting room.
| 592 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:09:26pm |
re: #572 The Shadow Do
My, my, my
False.
ACORN turns in workers on suspected voter registration fraud
Armed with a tip from the grassroots group ACORN about its own workers, authorities on Wednesday began arresting 11 people suspected of falsifying hundreds of voter applications during a registration drive last year.
ACORN, which stands for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, has long been accused by Republican and conservative activists — fed by talk-radio hosts — of fraudulently registering voters. But Miami-Dade prosecutors gave credit to the group for coming forward and ACORN officials said they felt vindicated.
"It shows that we take the integrity of our voter registration work with the utmost seriousness," said ACORN spokesman Brian Kettenring. "We turn in people who try to game the system."
Although ACORN is nonpartisan, its registration efforts focus on low-income and minority populations who tend to vote for Democrats; critics contend those efforts frequently bend or break registration rules. At times during the 2008 presidential campaign, people attending rallies for Republican nominee John McCain broke into chants of "No More ACORN!"
Last year, ACORN's national drive produced some 1.3 million voter applications.
ACORN first detected problems in Miami-Dade County in June 2008, according to a letter the group wrote to prosecutors. Investigators eventually determined that 11 canvassers, who were paid between $8 and $10 an hour, were turning in fake registration cards, mostly from the Homestead area.
Feel free to continue to get your hate on even when ACORN does the right thing.
Now I really must work! cheers, ice
| 593 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:09:37pm |
re: #426 iceweasel
I see. And you'll downding me merely for linking to the SPLC report that proves that the WT has a long standing history of publishing and promoting white supremacists.
I have no respect for people who downding on the basis of not liking the facts provided to them.
Back from watching tennis and the news.
You are the one who started with downdinging me and I returned the favor.
And I suspect you care about having my respect about as much as I care about having yours.
| 594 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:09:40pm |
re: #448 NJDhockeyfan
Then they shouldn't show them how to cheat on their tax returns. How do you explain the ACORN rep suggesting they bury money in the backyard?
La La La Killgore can't hear you.
| 595 |
VioletTiger Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:09:48pm |
re: #588 Slumbering Behemoth
Flounceydopes and splodeydopes,
And little minds scream "nazi",
A Beck'll cry "nazi" too, but not you/Buzzsaw I ain't
That was pretty good actually...
| 596 |
avanti Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:10:30pm |
re: #583 razorbacker
Question for Avanti:
'64 Lark 4 door. All glass good. Air. Solid car. was a daily driver until last year. Body not rusted, no dents, repainted who knows how many times. Actually, now that I think on it, it's in really good shape. $1200.
How's the price?
Like all collectible cars, the 4 doors are the least desirable, but $1200 is a decent price if it's a driver, but you can't make any money on resale.
| 597 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:10:52pm |
re: #569 Throbert McGee
Well, that's fair enough. The videos do show ACORN workers being incompetent and unprofessional -- and the voter registration fraud, as distinct from voting fraud, shows that too. So cutting their tax subsidies until they shape up is entirely fair. But slovenly incompetence and lack of professionalism is different from racketeering.
Filling out tax form wrong in incompetent, helping hookers set up a whorehouse with teenage girls is criminal.
| 598 |
Gus Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:11:13pm |
re: #552 iceweasel
Voter registration fraud, not voter fraud. And the organisation as a whole has several times been explicitly exonerated of complicity in that. They're even turned in their own workers when they suspected it.
This is a test.
Searched for "Charles Darwin" in both the New York Times and the Washington Times. Let's see which comes up first for each using a summary paragraph.
But what is astonishing is how much Darwin did know, and how far he saw. His imagination told him, for example, that many female animals have a sense of beauty — that they like to mate with the most beautiful males. For this he was ridiculed. But we know that he was right. Still more impressive: he was not afraid to apply his ideas to humans. He thought that natural selection had operated on us, just as it had on fruit flies and centipedes.
As we delve into DNA sequences, we can see natural selection acting at the level of genes. Our genes hold evidence of our intimate associations with other beings, from cows to malaria parasites and grains. The latest research allows us to trace the genetic changes that differentiate us from our primate cousins, and shows that large parts of the human genome bear the stamp of evolution by means of natural selection.
I think Darwin would have been pleased. But not surprised.
This explains why Darwin Day in the United States is a project of the Institute for Humanist Studies, which is dedicated to promoting "a nonreligious philosophy." It explains why some atheists want to establish Darwin Day as a secular alternative to Christmas.
Unfortunately, once in power Darwinism (like Marxism) tolerates no dissent. As the 2008 movie "Expelled" documented, scientists and teachers who criticize Darwinism risk ostracism, character assassination and termination of their employment. School boards that encourage students to learn the "strengths and weaknesses" of evolutionary theory are besieged by militant atheists who do not want students to question Darwinism.
That's why some people are now proposing that instead of "Darwin Day," Feb. 12 should be designated "Academic Freedom Day."
And let's not forget Lincoln's birthday.
The actual first entry for the New York Times on Darwin is a biography.
I think this speaks for itself.
| 599 |
Jimmah Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:11:21pm |
re: #563 ludwigvanquixote
And for all the banned ones who have found ways to make socks...
We miss you and dedicate this...
Nice find LVQ - where the hell did you find this lot? lol
| 600 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:11:24pm |
| 601 |
Throbert McGee Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:12:07pm |
re: #545 Dianna
I suggest you re-read the transcripts. They're quite clear (except the Baltimore tax lady, who clearly freaked) on what's happening.
What's the link for the transcripts?
| 602 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:12:10pm |
re: #566 marjoriemoon
I'm not fond of the government making the decision to monitor my privacy. I don't think anybody should. If the Patriot Act didn't exist and it was Obama promoting it today, I think all hell would break lose.
The rest of your post I take as snark, yes? Energy will be Obama's next major battle, if he really gets to it. I hope he does and I hope he sticks to his ideas of alternative fuel sources. I'd like to see nuclear energy grow, altho disposal is a problem. Solar and wind, too. In fact, most of the large energy companies are already well into solar and wind research.
What on Earth makes you think that's snark? I ain't saying it's a-gonna happen, but there's nothing snarky about it, as far as I can tell.
I could be wrong.
| 603 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:12:11pm |
re: #424 Dianna
Don't get me started on ACORN.
Before this business, before the voter fraud issues, before most of you had heard of them, I detested them.
I wish I could find some of the links I posted here about ACORN in the past before any of this came up.
We were warned but, as usual, it was swept under the rug by the msm.
| 604 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:12:51pm |
Allow drug dealers and Prostitutes to apply for licenses and file taxes.
/Problem solved.
| 605 |
Dr. Shalit Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:13:01pm |
re: #1 Sharmuta
I support the President.
Sharmuta -
IF TRUE - Mee Tooo! The Patriot Act, as a practical matter is "RICO for JIHADIS" - as far as I can determine.
-S-
| 606 |
razorbacker Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:13:14pm |
re: #596 avanti
Like all collectible cars, the 4 doors are the least desirable, but $1200 is a decent price if it's a driver, but you can't make any money on resale.
That's okay. I'm not going to resell it. I can't buy the 2 door that I want, as my own cousin won't sell it to me.
Walt will sell his 4-door, however. I'm getting tired of the Cutlass ragtop, and want another Stude.
| 607 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:13:26pm |
re: #575 Spare O'Lake
Good one. And I wonder, what do they call non-profit prostitution?
Generosity? Spreading sunshine?
/
Actually, I don't think there is such a thing, is there? The very definition of prostitution is the exchange of sexual favors for a consideration, usually financial.
It used to set my teeth on edge when I read people who argued that marriage was simply legitimized prostitution.
| 608 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:14:07pm |
re: #511 Dark_Falcon
True, and if this was an illegal who worked construction coming in for help I wouldn't have a problem with it. But when it is an admitted criminal, I have a serious problem with helping them avoid paying for their crimes.
And you would probably also have trouble advising them in order to help them set up their illegal brothel with underage girls.
| 609 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:14:15pm |
re: #498 MandyManners
Nooo. No more flouncies!
Surely, eventually, natural selection will provide us with a population that can handle these discussions? /
BTW, the last issue of TIME has an interesting article about dogs and humans and cognitive stuff. Apparently we are the only two species to understand pointing.
| 610 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:14:32pm |
re: #595 VioletTiger
Aw, you're too kind. Thanks.
| 611 |
Salamantis Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:14:45pm |
re: #607 Dianna
Generosity? Spreading sunshine?
/Actually, I don't think there is such a thing, is there? The very definition of prostitution is the exchange of sexual favors for a consideration, usually financial.
It used to set my teeth on edge when I read people who argued that marriage was simply legitimized prostitution.
Barter system!
/
| 612 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:15:02pm |
re: #590 MandyManners
Haven't 30 ACORNers been convicted of voter registration fraud?
/but that was only registration, no votes were actually... yeah right.
| 613 |
razorbacker Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:15:29pm |
re: #607 Dianna
Generosity? Spreading sunshine?
/It used to set my teeth on edge when I read people who argued that marriage was simply legitimized prostitution.
I used to argue that manual labor was legal prostitution, since they simply paid me to use my body for their benefit.
And I didn't enjoy it near as much as they did.
| 614 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:15:35pm |
re: #598 Gus 802
The actual first entry for the New York Times on Darwin is a biography.
I think this speaks for itself.
Yes, but it doesn't say what you think it does.
The NYT piece is an from the Op-Ed page, whereas the WT piece is from the News page (hopefully there is more than one of those, by the way). You would expect a news piece to be about something going on today and WRT Darwin, that's going to be a kook story, whereas the Op-Ed page can be whatever--in this case a book review, or a retrospective--can't tell, not logged in.
| 615 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:15:38pm |
re: #566 marjoriemoon
I'm not fond of the government making the decision to monitor my privacy. I don't think anybody should. If the Patriot Act didn't exist and it was Obama promoting it today, I think all hell would break lose.
The rest of your post I take as snark, yes? Energy will be Obama's next major battle, if he really gets to it. I hope he does and I hope he sticks to his ideas of alternative fuel sources. I'd like to see nuclear energy grow, altho disposal is a problem. Solar and wind, too. In fact, most of the large energy companies are already well into solar and wind research.
Natural gas would be the smart move.
Won't happen.
| 616 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:15:51pm |
re: #600 brookly red
re: #575 Spare O'LakeGood one. And I wonder, what do they call non-profit prostitution?
/posting?
50% of marriages?
| 617 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:15:57pm |
re: #604 Killgore Trout
Allow drug dealers and Prostitutes to apply for licenses and file taxes.
/Problem solved.
And slaveholders.
| 618 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:16:13pm |
re: #599 Jimmah
Nice find LVQ - where the hell did you find this lot? lol
just searched for sock puppet
| 619 |
The Shadow Do Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:16:17pm |
re: #592 iceweasel
ACORN officials said the group regularly reports suspected fraud to authorities nationwide but the Miami prosecution marks one of the few times the complaints were taken seriously.
To believe or not to believe, that is the question.
Carry on Ice. ACORN is cool, no doubt...
| 620 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:16:34pm |
re: #604 Killgore Trout
Allow drug dealers and Prostitutes to apply for licenses and file taxes.
/Problem solved.
Never will I approve of that. Drug pushers and whores are people who should be imprisoned or run off. The goal is to get them out of your community and eliminate their activities as far as is possible.
| 621 |
avanti Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:16:50pm |
re: #589 NJDhockeyfan
ACORN got $53 million in federal funds since 94, now eligible for up to $8 billion more
I eligible for $1000,000 from Publishers Clearing House next week too."Eligible " is the key word. If you do the research most of that money is not for programs ACORN supports, and the ones it does, have 100's of other agencies in the running for the money. typically, they get a few million/year for their share.
| 622 |
Gus Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:17:22pm |
re: #614 haakondahl
Yes, but it doesn't say what you think it does.
The NYT piece is an from the Op-Ed page, whereas the WT piece is from the News page (hopefully there is more than one of those, by the way). You would expect a news piece to be about something going on today and WRT Darwin, that's going to be a kook story, whereas the Op-Ed page can be whatever--in this case a book review, or a retrospective--can't tell, not logged in.
They're both commentaries.
| 623 |
Mich-again Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:17:48pm |
From the ACORN story..
The videos reportedly recorded late July and early August appear to show ACORN employees in several big cities including Baltimore, Washington and New York, advising a couple posing as a pimp and prostitute.The employees are heard telling the couple how to avoid paying taxes and how to qualify for a mortgage on a home the couple plan to use as a brothel.
"And if anyone asks you your business is a performing artist, which you are, okay, so you are not lying," says one of the ACORN workers caught on the tape. "Performing artist. So stop saying prostitution. Got it."
Clearly this worker was poorly trained. /
| 624 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:18:24pm |
re: #591 Killgore Trout
I'm having a few bad moments, here.
In every case, the prostitute showed up with her pimp. There are, probably, somewhere, pimps who are not complete horrors. I'm sure they must exist. But usually, the girl/s are slaves. It's really, really, ugly.
A prostitute trying to get out of the life does not, generally, show up with her pimp.
You've evidently picked a position, and you're not going to change your mind, but do think about what you're saying, will you?
| 625 |
Zoomie Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:18:44pm |
re: #566 marjoriemoon
... Energy will be Obama's next major battle, if he really gets to it. I hope he does and I hope he sticks to his ideas of alternative fuel sources. I'd like to see nuclear energy grow, altho disposal is a problem. Solar and wind, too. In fact, most of the large energy companies are already well into solar and wind research.
Take it as a fact that Cap and trade is going down. I believe even Sen Feingold is having second thoughts. Then the President can get on to an energy policy.
We agree nuclear is a good idea. France seems to have no problem with storage. I understand all the waste material is under the floor of one of the plants.
Of course we all want our plug-in hybrids. And so we will have to burn a lot more coal, nat gas and uranium in some combination for 20 years until solar delivers a little bit.
Cash for clunkers should have required the 40+ mpg diesels that are coming from Germany and could come from the USA. That would dramatically cut carbon emissions.
| 626 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:18:46pm |
re: #603 J.D.
I wish I could find some of the links I posted here about ACORN in the past before any of this came up.
We were warned but, as usual, it was swept under the rug by the msm.
Quite naturally. They just don't care. Or at least, they pretend not to care.
In fact, they approve whole-heartedly of the skullduggery used to maintain Democrats in power--they just can't come out and say it. Getting closer, but not quote, yet.
Or is that somebody else...?
| 627 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:18:57pm |
re: #472 tradewind
No, it's full of Marxists and socialists, and there are definitely some racists in the mix: they're just not white. It cites completely incredible sources such as Moveon.org, and CAIR as credible.
Hear Hear!
| 628 |
Dr. Shalit Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:19:39pm |
re: #596 avanti
Like all collectible cars, the 4 doors are the least desirable, but $1200 is a decent price if it's a driver, but you can't make any money on resale.
avanti -
Considering the inflation in auto pricing, it is like buying a superannuated grandma car in 1969/70 for about $125 - GOOD DEAL! Beyond that, there are TONS of Chevy Parts that fit or can be easily adapted to the '64 Lark to make it a Real Runner. A ZL-1 Engine tops the list, nearly impossible - AND - One Can Hope.
-S-
| 629 |
Wendya Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:20:45pm |
re: #592 iceweasel
Feel free to continue to get your hate on even when ACORN does the right thing.
Now I really must work! cheers, ice
Let me know when ACORN turns in employees giving advice on how to claim underage prostitutes as a business expense.
If the hooker/boyfriend limited their little road trip strictly to Acorn housing offices, this is going to look really ugly. ACORN operates housing offices in 29 cities. Let's see... 4 into 29 equals 7.25%. Hmmm...
| 630 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:20:53pm |
| 631 |
brookly red Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:21:09pm |
I should go on all night but I can't so lemmie just say that ACORN is a bunch of criminals, they got caught, & people in high places are not happy about it.
Oh, & I love it.
good night all.
| 632 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:21:22pm |
re: #622 Gus 802
They're both commentaries.
Oh! Right you are! Sorry about that.
The "NEWS" tab was lit up on that page in my browser. I stand very corrected. And the guy is a DI shill!
| 633 |
Wendya Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:22:13pm |
re: #604 Killgore Trout
Allow drug dealers and Prostitutes to apply for licenses and file taxes.
/Problem solved.
EXcept that pesky underage girls from El Salvador problem.
| 634 |
What, me worry? Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:22:23pm |
re: #602 haakondahl
What on Earth makes you think that's snark? I ain't saying it's a-gonna happen, but there's nothing snarky about it, as far as I can tell.
I could be wrong.
The last paragraph of Zoomie's post #488 was snark. Cutting off importing of natural gas from the Middle East?
| 635 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:22:39pm |
re: #621 avanti
I eligible for $1000,000 from Publishers Clearing House next week too."Eligible " is the key word. If you do the research most of that money is not for programs ACORN supports, and the ones it does, have 100's of other agencies in the running for the money. typically, they get a few million/year for their share.
A few million?
Lets see...$54 million divided by 15 years is $3.6 million/year.
| 636 |
VioletTiger Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:22:52pm |
re: #629 Wendya
Let me know when ACORN turns in employees giving advice on how to claim underage prostitutes as a business expense.
If the hooker/boyfriend limited their little road trip strictly to Acorn housing offices, this is going to look really ugly. ACORN operates housing offices in 29 cities. Let's see... 4 into 29 equals 7.25%. Hmmm...
The rumor is, there are more than four.
| 637 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:23:04pm |
re: #617 haakondahl
And slaveholders.
I give to Children of the Night, Free the Slaves and a couple others.
When I first started at the Foundation, I had no idea. I'd lived in dreadful neighborhoods, and thought I knew, but I didn't.
There's things in this world that need to be stopped. Really badly need to be stopped.
| 638 |
shane Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:23:21pm |
Well I always thought the patriot act was a bad plan. Not because Bush passed it. He was a good guy, but because if a bad guy were in the white house what it could be used for. Our founding fathers knew the real answer. All of them knew what we should know now. Pass laws based on the worst that could happen if it got into the wrong hands, not the best that could happen.
| 639 |
avanti Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:23:24pm |
| 640 |
funky chicken Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:23:34pm |
re: #527 Throbert McGee
What I saw in the videos was not ACORN aiding and abetting child prostitution, but employees of ACORN who lacked the training and experience to deal with off-the-wall questions, and therefore just chose to wing it (badly). Which means that they're not very good management material, but that doesn't mean ACORN at the institutional level tends to facilitate child prostitution.
actually, I think they showed the ugly end result of "nonjudgementalism" taken to it's logical end
and with that, I'm off to bed :-)
| 641 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:23:40pm |
re: #496 Killian Bundy
45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul
/well, that's not very encouraging
If my son wasn't a resident physician and had gone to law school instead, he could already be suing doctors instead of still working on completing his training.
| 642 |
razorbacker Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:23:41pm |
re: #628 Dr. Shalit
avanti -
Considering the inflation in auto pricing, it is like buying a superannuated grandma car in 1969/70 for about $125 - GOOD DEAL! Beyond that, there are TONS of Chevy Parts that fit or can be easily adapted to the '64 Lark to make it a Real Runner. A ZL-1 Engine tops the list, nearly impossible - AND - One Can Hope.
-S-
Get with the program, my friend. Guy up the hill has dropped a duramax diesel into a '68 Impala. Tons of low-end torque, the motor weights about what a 454 does, the fuel is cheaper (for now), and he gets mileage in the mid-30s.
Don't drag race him. It's foolish fast in the quarter mile.
| 643 |
What, me worry? Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:23:41pm |
re: #615 reine.de.tout
Natural gas would be the smart move.
Won't happen.
I'm not fond of coal. Is coal natural gas?
| 644 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:24:45pm |
re: #604 Killgore Trout
Allow drug dealers and Prostitutes to apply for licenses and file taxes.
/Problem solved.
How do they handle the pimp's 90% or more cut?
| 645 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:26:11pm |
re: #619 The Shadow Do
To believe or not to believe, that is the question.
Carry on Ice. ACORN is cool, no doubt...
In other words, even when they do teh right thing and the FBI confirms it, you won't give them credit.
Got it.
| 646 |
Oped Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:26:25pm |
Well I support A president doing what he has to do to keep the country safe. Obama I don't support. F. Him, Because he already was smart and knew what he needed to know while Bush was in and savagely bashed Bush while Bush did what he had to do. Now this hypocrite has followed almost every policy of the Bush administration.
He should have been a little less partisan. Now I don't trust his motivations because I suspect that all of his actions are political, not necessarily all for National Security.
| 647 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:26:56pm |
re: #645 iceweasel
In other words, even when they do teh right thing and the FBI confirms it, you won't give them credit.
Got it.
I see you are working hard on the comments tonight :)
| 648 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:26:57pm |
re: #636 VioletTiger
The rumor is, there are more than four.
There another one tomorrow worse than today's...if that's possible.
| 649 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:27:44pm |
re: #637 Dianna
I give to Children of the Night, Free the Slaves and a couple others.
When I first started at the Foundation, I had no idea. I'd lived in dreadful neighborhoods, and thought I knew, but I didn't.
There's things in this world that need to be stopped. Really badly need to be stopped.
Amen.
| 650 |
What, me worry? Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:28:03pm |
re: #625 Zoomie
Take it as a fact that Cap and trade is going down. I believe even Sen Feingold is having second thoughts. Then the President can get on to an energy policy.
We agree nuclear is a good idea. France seems to have no problem with storage. I understand all the waste material is under the floor of one of the plants.
Of course we all want our plug-in hybrids. And so we will have to burn a lot more coal, nat gas and uranium in some combination for 20 years until solar delivers a little bit.
Cash for clunkers should have required the 40+ mpg diesels that are coming from Germany and could come from the USA. That would dramatically cut carbon emissions.
If we could cut our foreign oil consumption by what... 25%? 30%? It would be huge. We need foreign oil, not just for needing the oil but for maintaining some relationship with the Arab world. I agree with you on the clunker/diesel issue.
| 651 |
razorbacker Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:29:10pm |
| 652 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:29:59pm |
| 654 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:31:42pm |
re: #653 Jimmah
Link doesn't work, a fact which doesn't seem to have troubled whoever it was that updinged you for that.
What?
I'd swear I copied it correctly.
Let me try again. Sorry about that.
| 655 |
MandyManners Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:31:52pm |
re: #652 Dianna
Your link to the transcript didn't work for me.
| 656 |
Wendya Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:32:31pm |
re: #636 VioletTiger
The rumor is, there are more than four.
I'm sure there are.
Remember when Bertha at Acorn claimed they were turned away in NYC? It would be interesting to see if any other cities that supposedly turned them away end up on youtube this week. They did the taping last month. That was plenty of time for Acorn to get in front of this if they actually knew it was going on.
| 657 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:33:02pm |
re: #637 Dianna
I give to Children of the Night, Free the Slaves and a couple others.
When I first started at the Foundation, I had no idea. I'd lived in dreadful neighborhoods, and thought I knew, but I didn't.
There's things in this world that need to be stopped. Really badly need to be stopped.
One could make the argument that child prostitution and child slavery are two of the worst manifestations of the capitalist fundament of supply and demand gone wild.
How ironic then that a supposedly non-profit organization like ACORN seems to be riddled with political pimps.
| 658 |
MandyManners Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:33:07pm |
re: #653 Jimmah
Link doesn't work, a fact which doesn't seem to have troubled whoever it was that updinged you for that.
What's your point? I up-dinged her for it assuming the link would work.
| 659 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:33:21pm |
My apologies, I am an idiot. I copied the "http" bit twice.
Once more, with feeling: Here.
| 660 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:33:22pm |
re: #645 iceweasel
In other words, even when they do teh right thing and the FBI confirms it, you won't give them credit.
Got it.
I'll be honest: No, I wont give them credit in such a case. The reason is that I seek to destroy ACORN, not reform it. I consider it a irredeemable Alinskyite organization. I want it removed from the political landscape, and scandals are the best way to break an organization.
| 661 |
Wendya Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:34:25pm |
re: #653 Jimmah
Link doesn't work, a fact which doesn't seem to have troubled whoever it was that updinged you for that.
Some of us have already read the transcripts she trying to link.
| 662 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:34:53pm |
re: #655 MandyManners
Your link to the transcript didn't work for me.
Try my #659. I apologize.
My work computer, for whatever reason, lets me copy the whole addy/URL; my home machine wants me to leave off the "http" part.
If I blew it again, I'm going to cry.
| 663 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:35:16pm |
re: #644 Dianna
How do they handle the pimp's 90% or more cut?
Expanded tax deductibility of political donations?
///
| 664 |
MandyManners Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:35:22pm |
| 665 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:36:21pm |
re: #658 MandyManners
What's your point? I up-dinged her for it assuming the link would work.
I think Jimmah is assuming I'm vulnerable to undermining.
Fortunately, I long ago confessed that my google-fu is weak and I lack mad computer skills. Did I also mention that I'm uncool and flunked pop culture 101?
| 666 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:38:08pm |
| 667 |
Throbert McGee Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:38:27pm |
re: #630 Dianna
That's the Baltimore one, the rest are also linked on the site.
Thanks, Dianna -- I will read them and get caught up before pontificating further. Though that might not be till the weekend, because I've gotta do a self-imposed LGF ban for the next few days or I'll never get my arts'n'craftsy gifts for my friends done before the high school reunion on Saturday.
TTFN, Lizards!
| 668 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:38:34pm |
re: #591 Killgore Trout
Sort of, yes. If you are going to give tax advice to poor people who live in the inner city you have to be prepared to deal with illegal activity. If it were up to me I'd suggest that prostitutes and drug dealers file taxes as 'street vendors' and pay appropriate state and federal tax. But now that I think about it there's probably a license thing with street vendors so that might not work. I guess you could just arrest them on the spot but everybody else would probably vacate the waiting room.
Has it occurred to you that we might not actually want criminals getting good tax advice? And try this on for size: if you set up shop prepared to give tax advice to criminals, that is people who you know are engaged in illegal activity for profit, aren't you simply moonlighting for the bad guys?
I am frankly stunned.
| 669 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:41:56pm |
re: #626 haakondahl
In fact, they approve whole-heartedly of the skullduggery used to maintain Democrats in power--they just can't come out and say it.
Wouldn't be prudent.
;-)
| 670 |
Dianna Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:42:13pm |
re: #668 haakondahl
Has it occurred to you that we might not actually want criminals getting good tax advice? And try this on for size: if you set up shop prepared to give tax advice to criminals, that is people who you know are engaged in illegal activity for profit, aren't you simply moonlighting for the bad guys?
I am frankly stunned.
Remember, KT's decided this story is irrelevant to his interests.
To be fair, I doubt that KT has anything to do with ACORN, and I'm absolutely sure that he isn't in the least apologizing for prostitution. I don't think, if you read his comments about this, that he's even really thought about it, except in the context of "do I care about ACORN?"
| 671 |
razorbacker Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:42:20pm |
I'm willing to allow that organizations, like people, can change in 39 years.
But ACORN began as a race-hustling bunch of lowlifes that I'd rather not associate with. Nothing that I've seen gives me evidence that anything has changed since the 'A' came to mean Association instead of Arkansans.
| 674 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:44:43pm |
re: #672 MandyManners
Good night, Lizards!
Good night, don't let the crazy bugs bite. They seem to be everywhere these days.
| 675 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:44:50pm |
re: #552 iceweasel
Voter registration fraud, not voter fraud. And the organisation as a whole has several times been explicitly exonerated of complicity in that. They're even turned in their own workers when they suspected it.
*yawn*
You must have that tired meme on a macro.
| 676 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:45:02pm |
re: #643 marjoriemoon
I'm not fond of coal. Is coal natural gas?
No, it isn't.
But I'll bet you have benefited from the energy generated from coal. Most everyone here most likely has.
| 677 |
lurking faith Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:46:43pm |
re: #629 Wendya
Let me know when ACORN turns in employees giving advice on how to claim underage prostitutes as a business expense.
If the hooker/boyfriend limited their little road trip strictly to Acorn housing offices, this is going to look really ugly. ACORN operates housing offices in 29 cities. Let's see... 4 into 29 equals 7.25%. Hmmm...
Um, 4 into 29 is more than one in ten; has to be over 10%... Let's see...
That would be approx. 13.8%.
/former math princess mode off
| 678 |
antoniojvr Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:48:45pm |
The provisions in question:
*A secret court, known as the FISA court, may grant “roving wiretaps” without the government identifying the target. Generally, the authorities must assert that the target is an agent of a foreign power and/or a suspected terrorist. The government said Tuesday that 22 such warrants — which allow the monitoring of any communication device — have been granted annually.
*The FISA court may grant warrants for “business records,” from banking to library to medical records. Generally, the government must assert that the records are relevant to foreign intelligence gathering and/or a terrorism investigation. The government said Tuesday that 220 of these warrants had been granted between 2004 and 2007. It said 2004 was the first year those powers were used.
*A so-called “lone wolf” provision, enacted in 2004, allows FISA court warrants for the electronic monitoring of an individual even without showing that the person is an agent of a foreign power or a suspected terrorist. The government said Tuesday it has never invoked that provision, but said it wants to keep the authority to do so.
Disgusting. How did this thing make it through congress? Oh yea, the Republicans rushed it through. Good thing we don't do that anymore...
| 681 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:51:38pm |
re: #678 antoniojvr
The Patriot Act Under Siege
Americans need to understand it before we add to it.
*—Andrew C. McCarthy, a former federal prosecutor who led the 1995 terrorism case against Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, is a consultant at the Investigative Project in Washington.
| 682 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:56:30pm |
re: #678 antoniojvr
The provisions in question:
*A secret court, known as the FISA court, may grant “roving wiretaps” without the government identifying the target. Generally, the authorities must assert that the target is an agent of a foreign power and/or a suspected terrorist. The government said Tuesday that 22 such warrants — which allow the monitoring of any communication device — have been granted annually.*The FISA court may grant warrants for “business records,” from banking to library to medical records. Generally, the government must assert that the records are relevant to foreign intelligence gathering and/or a terrorism investigation. The government said Tuesday that 220 of these warrants had been granted between 2004 and 2007. It said 2004 was the first year those powers were used.
*A so-called “lone wolf” provision, enacted in 2004, allows FISA court warrants for the electronic monitoring of an individual even without showing that the person is an agent of a foreign power or a suspected terrorist. The government said Tuesday it has never invoked that provision, but said it wants to keep the authority to do so.
Disgusting. How did this thing make it through congress? Oh yea, the Republicans rushed it through. Good thing we don't do that anymore...
And now we get the BDS. Go Away Gordon.
| 683 |
Wendya Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:56:55pm |
re: #677 lurking faith
Um, 4 into 29 is more than one in ten; has to be over 10%... Let's see...
That would be approx. 13.8%.
/former math princess mode off
I can't believe I listed that as a percentage.
*hangs head in shame*
| 684 |
Throbert McGee Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:00:44pm |
re: #667 Throbert McGee
Thanks, Dianna -- I will read them and get caught up before pontificating further.
Okay, did a quick scan of the transcripts, and -- WHOA SHIT. Basically, forget everything I said above; I had no idea about the level of detail that the conversations got into, and how calculating the ACORN ladies actually were.
Anyway, on that note, I'm logging off to do some artsy stuff involving molten beeswax before bedtime!
| 685 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:02:52pm |
Boy, Oh, Boy
By MAUREEN DOWD
New York Times
The normally nonchalant Barack Obama looked nonplussed, as Nancy Pelosi glowered behind.
Surrounded by middle-aged white guys — a sepia snapshot of the days when such pols ran Washington like their own men’s club — Joe Wilson yelled “You lie!” at a president who didn’t.
But, fair or not, what I heard was an unspoken word in the air: You lie, boy! ...
A nutcase to be sure.
| 686 |
tradewind Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:03:16pm |
re: #496 Killian Bundy
Well that's going to be a real problem, since under Obamacare 45% fewer doctors would be available to treat the instantly-covered _(figure-of-choice)___? millions of new patients added into the system.
To do the math is to laugh.
| 687 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:03:45pm |
re: #684 Throbert McGee
Okay, did a quick scan of the transcripts, and -- WHOA SHIT. Basically, forget everything I said above; I had no idea about the level of detail that the conversations got into, and how calculating the ACORN ladies actually were.
Anyway, on that note, I'm logging off to do some artsy stuff involving molten beeswax before bedtime!
Thank you for the honesty, Thorbert. That's one of the things I admire about you.
| 688 |
tradewind Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:04:13pm |
re: #685 J.D.
You have to wonder how many emails she got that say simply ' You Lie, B--tch.'
| 689 |
J.D. Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:05:01pm |
re: #686 tradewind
Well that's going to be a real problem, since under Obamacare 45% fewer doctors would be available to treat the instantly-covered _(figure-of-choice)___? millions of new patients added into the system.
To do the math is to laugh.
And it won't cost more, either.
Fuzzy math!
| 690 |
jorline Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:09:37pm |
The Tea Parties my have some misfits, but the Dems still have Jimmy.
Carter Claims There Is "Racist" Tone Against Obama
In an interview with NBC's Brian Williams, former President Jimmy Carter said he has been extremely bothered by the heightened climate of racial and other hate speech since the election of President Barack Obama.
I guess that hate speech was lost on Bush.
| 691 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:11:00pm |
re: #391 Charles
I wonder what would happen if someone infiltrated a Washington Times editorial meeting and recorded it?
I would like to infiltrate the newsrooms and editorial sessions of all of the major newspapers.
| 692 |
Jimmah Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:18:31pm |
re: #654 Dianna
What?
I'd swear I copied it correctly.
Let me try again. Sorry about that.
So nice of you to downding me for correctly pointing that out! Lovely! Not to mention funny!
| 693 |
tradewind Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:19:51pm |
re: #691 haakondahl
I would like toinfiltratefumigate the newsrooms and editorial sessions of all of the major newspapers.
FTFY
:)
| 694 |
Wendya Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:25:01pm |
re: #692 Jimmah
So nice of you to downding me for correctly pointing that out! Lovely! Not to mention funny!
It probably had something to do with your snarky comment about people dinging it up with a broken link.
| 695 |
haakondahl Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:26:11pm |
re: #155 Killgore Trout
"obnoxious stuff from all kinds of extremists" now includes Drudge, Limbaugh and Malkin? There's a very serious problem.
re: #500 Killgore Trout
Nah, I don't think I'll bother. I really don't care much about Acorn one way or the other. If they get their funding cut off it will go to some other group to do the same work. I really just don't see them as important to anything.
re: #519 Killgore Trout
Why? I don't care about acorn. You guys can freak out all day long about it but I just can't get worked up about an irrelevant group of social workers. If they lose government funding you won't hear a peep out of me about it. I don't care.
re: #525 Killgore Trout
wait...I'm starting to feel it...Yes, ACORN is bothering me...concentrate...hold on...almost there...try harder...
/Damn, I lost it.
//Don't care
re: #546 funky chicken
but you read stormfront all the time? ACORN gets your tax dollars and uses it for vote fraud (several actual indictments, not just WaTimes stories) and advising people on how to get federal benefits and perhaps avoid paying taxes themselves.
re: #554 Spare O'Lake
Oh good, but wait, there's more: Isn't there a teensy, little, nagging hangnail of a problem about the POTUS perhaps owing ACORN some favours or political payback for their past assistance in furthering his political career?
re: #570 MandyManners
You don't think taking our money and then telling people how to run illegal alien child prostitutes is important?
re: #603 J.D.
I wish I could find some of the links I posted here about ACORN in the past before any of this came up.
We were warned but, as usual, it was swept under the rug by the msm.
Hey, back off, everybody. Killgore has Republican pundits to expose, uh, by pointing out their own headlines.
| 697 |
Jimmah Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:28:12pm |
re: #665 Dianna
I think Jimmah is assuming I'm vulnerable to undermining.
Fortunately, I long ago confessed that my google-fu is weak and I lack mad computer skills. Did I also mention that I'm uncool and flunked pop culture 101?
I'm sorry it came across as an attempt to destroy you, but I was just pointing out that your link didn't work. I didn't realise you had posted the same link earlier in a presumably working state.
| 698 |
Jimmah Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:09:24pm |
re: #697 Jimmah
Actually - looking back through the thread I see you didn't post it before. Which makes my questioning the updings it was recieving even more understandable.
| 699 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:16:29pm |
re: #215 haakondahl
Simple question.
To which you received a very simple answer. Here was your *cough* simple question (it was simple, just not in the way you intended it):
I haven't read the report, so I don't know what it says, but I don't like the words you used in talking about it. Please can we have a discussion about that, even though I've just announced I don't know what I'm talking about?
The answer is, read the report. If you have an issue with my word choice then, we can talk. Until then piss off.
| 700 |
Jimmah Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:16:51pm |
re: #694 Wendya
It probably had something to do with your snarky comment about people dinging it up with a broken link.
Well, Wendya, when people auto upding a broken link which they just assume to be full of succulent goodness when in fact there is nothing there, a tiny smidgin of snark is justified I think.
| 701 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:20:19pm |
re: #675 Spare O'Lake
*yawn*
You must have that tired meme on a macro.
Uh, ok. I can see how pointing out truth might be considered a 'meme' for those living in partisan delusion, but keep calling truth and reality a meme if you like.
| 702 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:23:53pm |
re: #700 Jimmah
Well, Wendya, when people auto upding a broken link which they just assume to be full of succulent goodness when in fact there is nothing there, a tiny smidgin of snark is justified I think.
God, I'm tired of this 'meme' of yours Jimmah. When will you get over your fixation on facts? ;)
| 703 |
Wendya Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:24:56pm |
re: #700 Jimmah
Well, Wendya, when people auto upding a broken link which they just assume to be full of succulent goodness when in fact there is nothing there, a tiny smidgin of snark is justified I think.
I guess it never occurred to you that many of us had actually read the transcripts on our own.
| 704 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:29:06pm |
re: #703 Wendya
I guess it never occurred to you that many of us had actually read the transcripts on our own.
His issue appears to be with people updinging a broken link...not realising it was being broken. And being downdinged for pointing that out.
| 705 |
Jimmah Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:37:51pm |
re: #702 iceweasel
God, I'm tired of this 'meme' of yours Jimmah. When will you get over your fixation on facts? ;)
Well, iceweasel, I have a link here that refutes everything you say, and I am confident that it will recieve many updings because it opposes you and people are going to like the idea of a link that does that. And of you complain that the link is broken, well that's easy - they can just say they read it in the original Aramiac - so there!
Here it is - [Link: www.thislinkisgoldenhonest.com...]
| 706 |
Wendya Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:30:13pm |
re: #704 iceweasel
His issue appears to be with people updinging a broken link...not realising it was being broken. And being downdinged for pointing that out.
Again, you miss the point. Many of us who found this latest disgusting example of ACORN misconduct to be appalling had already visited that website. We knew where the link led because we'd already read it. Dianna was updinged for presenting the information for you and others to view. I suspect Jimmah was downdinged for assuming we were mindlessly approving information we hadn't already viewed.
| 707 |
Jimmah Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:09:30am |
re: #706 Wendya
Again, you miss the point. Many of us who found this latest disgusting example of ACORN misconduct to be appalling had already visited that website. We knew where the link led because we'd already read it. Dianna was updinged for presenting the information for you and others to view. I suspect Jimmah was downdinged for assuming we were mindlessly approving information we hadn't already viewed.
Actually, you have missed the point. It is not reasonable to downding someone for not "knowing" what other people have supposedly read. People were updinging nothing, as far as I could see. Dianna had at that point presented no information! I think it is pretty reasonable on my part to expect people to at least click a link before giving an opinion.
| 708 |
SixDegrees Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:12:09am |
re: #503 Big Steve
And do what? The only doctors that would quit are those who were planning to retire anyway. The rest...what other skills do they have that would bring in near what they would make in medicine.
There's a huge market in medical consulting for pharmaceutical firms, medical equipment manufacturers, companies that make diagnostic equipment...the list goes on and on, and doctors are constantly barraged with such offers. Not to mention that doctors make a great pile of money and are able to consider very early retirement in far more cases than the population at large - for many, it isn't at all necessary to consider doing anything else, ever, once they're in their 40s or 50s. It might mean lengthening the trade-in period on their Camaro from one to two years, and other hardships, but many are well able to manage.
| 709 |
haakondahl Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:30:56am |
re: #699 iceweasel
The answer is, read the report. If you have an issue with my word choice then, we can talk. Until then piss off.
re: #101 iceweasel
You might want to take a look at the documents that were unclassified a couple of weeks ago as the result of an ACLU lawsuit. The form of waterboarding we employed was not the same as that employed in SERE training. And the US had discontinued the milder version used in SERE training in all but Navy SERE training-- because of the psychological harm it was doing to the troops who underwent it.
The docs are here, the info about the SERE suspensions is buried in a footnote. Number 24, 25 or 26. I don't recall. But it's the same page with the testimony about the form of waterboarding employed being the same as that for which the US tried and convicted Japanese of war crimes.
[Link: www.aclu.org...]
You want the OLC report there.
Confound me for not knowing my way around this Commie website, but where the Hell is it?
| 710 |
sagehen Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:56:42am |
re: #708 SixDegrees
Not to mention that doctors make a great pile of money and are able to consider very early retirement in far more cases than the population at large - for many, it isn't at all necessary to consider doing anything else, ever, once they're in their 40s or 50s. It might mean lengthening the trade-in period on their Camaro from one to two years, and other hardships, but many are well able to manage.
Not so much.
4 years college (100-200k). 4 years med school (200k). Internship (work 80 hrs/week at minimum wage; loans deferred, interest piling up). Residency (3 years of work 80 hrs/week, at slightly above minimum wage; loans deferred, interest piling up). A few months studying for the boards. Finally get certified. Find a practice to join.
Age 30 -- EARN YOUR FIRST FEE!! Rent an office; buy or rent equipment for your office. Buy malpractice insurance. Hire a nurse who must be present for every exam; hire a full-time billing clerk who knows how to navigate the 14 different kinds of forms and pre-approval protocols for 14 different insurance companies you've applied to be an in-network provider for. And start paying off those loans.
| 711 |
deacon Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:55:41am |
re: #710 sagehen
I have a friend that is a doctor, and when he started practicing medicine, it took him 6 months to get his first pay check because of insurance/medicaid taking so long to pay him.
| 712 |
deacon Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:59:34am |
The The subject seems to have changed. On the original topic, I just wanted to say that I hope that they will now stop calling it "domestic" wire tapping and call it what it really is, "international" wire tapping. I mean really, I have never taken a "domestic" flight to europe. Nor have I ever made a "domestic" phone call to my family there. I wish I could get "domestic" rates, but that isn't going to happen because it is not "domestic".
| 713 |
elclynn Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:55:03am |
I've always supported the Patriot Act, glad to hear the Obama Gov is keeping it in place. I don't believe that "unclenched fist" meme is going to work quite as well as Obama thinks it will. Like it or not, we have to protect ourselves using all the tools the government has put in place.
| 714 |
Tats66 Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:17:53am |
I just woke up so I havnt read the whole thread yet, but I wanted to comment yes, the repubs and some righties have kinda disappointed most of us with their plunge into moonbattiness, but I think the story to me at least, how those that demonized the Bush policies somehow now find many of them palatable under "The One"
Im keeping my fingers crossed that Charles' prediction dosnt come true.
| 715 |
Coracle Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:25:00am |
re: #709 haakondahl
Confound me for not knowing my way around this Commie website, but where the Hell is it?
Just FYI, it's on the first link on the page IW linked. "2004 CIA Office of Inspector General's Counterterrorism Detention and Interrogation Activities Report". [Direct link to PDF].
She's wrong though - it's not footnote 24, 25, or 25, it's footnote 14:
"According to individuals with authoritative knowledge of the SERE program, the waterboard was used for demonstration purposes on a very small number of students in a class. Except for Navy SERE training, use of the waterboard was discontinued because of its dramatic effect on the students who were subjects."
Although footnote 26 is also interesting:
According to the Chief, Medical Services, OMS was neither consulted nor
involved in the initial analysis of the risk and benefits of EITs, nor provided with the 01' 5 report cited in the OLC opinion. In retrospect, based on the OLC extracts of the OTS report, OMS contends that the reported sophistication of the preliminary EIT review was exaggerated, at least as it related to the waterboard, and that the power of this EIT was appreciably overstated in the report. Furthermore, OMS contends that the expertise of the SERE psychologist / interrogators on the waterboard was probably misrepresented at the time, as the SERE waterboard experience is so different from the subsequent Agency usage as to make it almost irrelevant. Consequently, according to OMS, there was no a priori reason to believe that applying the water board with the
frequency and intensity with which it was used by the psychologist / interrogators was either efficacious or medically safe.
| 716 |
Hanoch Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:34:58am |
Perhaps, but I find that most conservatives have given Obama credit for the few things he has done that accord with their policy views.
The hypocrisy on the political left, however, is so blatant that it is jarring. The anti-war sentiment was rampant among the left during the Bush Administration, but somehow it suddenly disappeared when Obama took office (woe to you Cindy Sheehan, left to twist in the wind alone). Similarly, I think it is far more likely that you will see that all of the inhabitants of the left who so vociferously opposed the Patriot Act during the Bush era will now inexplicably lose their voice.
| 717 |
princetrumpet Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:41:02am |
I'm not sure I understand Charles' logic. The left and the hard right have always been against the Patriot Act. The middle has either supported it or not cared. I have supported it and I'll be supporting it now. If the hard right protests against it, that won't be anything new. Same with the left. I don't think there'll be any [significant] spiteful conversions of position.
| 718 |
mrclark Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:08:23am |
re: #6 Charles
Not going to happen. The left wingers are very unhappy about Obama's failure to follow the left wing agenda.
LOLL: ACLU politely whines (at best)...not exactly at Boosh Era #feverpitch octaves:
Michelle Richardson of the American Civil Liberties Union called the administration's position "a mixed bag," and said that the group hopes the next version of the Patriot Act will have important safeguards on other issues, particularly the collecting of international communications, and a specific bar on surveillance of protected First Amendment activities like peaceful protests or religious assembly.
'very unhappy' indeed
| 719 |
mrclark Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:08:58am |
link for above story quote: [Link: news.yahoo.com...]
| 720 |
bunnymud Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:22:47am |
"Watch as the same people who loudly supported the Patriot Act for years suddenly start to find things wrong with it.."
And vice versa
| 721 |
Dreader1962 Wed, Sep 16, 2009 7:20:51am |
re: #715 Coracle
A heavily redacted document, but could you tell me what OMS stands for? This is the opinion of one agency (not a consensus, apparently), but what agency is it?
| 722 |
gregb Wed, Sep 16, 2009 7:37:44am |
re: #496 Killian Bundy
45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul
/well, that's not very encouraging
That's like saying 45% of all liberal will consider emmigrating if Bush wins the presidency.
Obama's doctor in trying to make a case for the single payer system, said that his office would save money by not having to deal with the bureaucracy of multiple insurance companies.
| 723 |
Coracle Wed, Sep 16, 2009 7:44:52am |
re: #721 Dreader1962
A heavily redacted document, but could you tell me what OMS stands for? This is the opinion of one agency (not a consensus, apparently), but what agency is it?
IT's the Office of Medical Services within the CIA.
| 724 |
Korla Pundit Wed, Sep 16, 2009 8:22:55am |
My concern, and the same concern I would have with a GOP Administration, is not the provisions of the law, but the abuse of those provisions. But even with a history of abusing confidentiality and leaking of private records to get back at people who embarrass or challenge the President, I am still strongly in favor of extending the Patriot Act.
There will always be the risk that such surveillance can be misused, no matter who is President. But the fact is that if somebody is going to ILLEGALLY listen to your conversations, then they are going to do it whether or not there is a Patriot Act. The Act itself doesn't threaten me.
But keeping tabs on foreign terrorists requires extraordinary powers, and I'm willing to cede that possible incursion into my private, though boring, phone conversations. I already assume some strangers can access my credit card and phone records. I am aware of the danger of mission creep, and the awful irony of taking away my liberty to preserve it.
My real fear is not that Obama will use the Patriot Act to snoop into my existence, or to punish his political foes. My fear is that if he DOES such a thing, that the press would cover for him, the Justice Department would go along with it, the Dem controlled Congress will ignore it, and maybe worst of all, that actual terrorists will NOT be prevented from destroying another chunk of New York City.
| 725 |
Korla Pundit Wed, Sep 16, 2009 8:34:13am |
re: #74 Charles
Also, the obsession with settlements is bizarre. Tying that to the nuclear issue is not helpful to anybody, and seems arbitrary. It's almost like one of those co-worker reviews companies make you fill out, where you have to find one "area needing improvement" to point out about somebody, and having to put in some irrelevant detail that has nothing to do with performance.
| 726 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Sep 16, 2009 8:36:57am |
re: #715 Coracle
Cheers Coracle. I read the whole report the day it was released. I remembered there was something in footnotes around 26, but didn't have the report at hand. Everyone should read the whole thing.
I was going by memory from having read it on august 26th or whenever it was. Thanks!
| 727 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Sep 16, 2009 8:38:55am |
re: #723 Coracle
IT's the Office of Medical Services within the CIA.
Exactly, which is what makes that footnote so damned interesting. The OMS would certainly have every reason to cover for the CIA or spin in their favour; instead, they concluded this:
Consequently, according to OMS, there was no a priori reason to believe that applying the water board with the
frequency and intensity with which it was used by the psychologist / interrogators was either efficacious or medically safe.
| 728 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Sep 16, 2009 8:42:06am |
re: #716 Hanoch
Perhaps, but I find that most conservatives have given Obama credit for the few things he has done that accord with their policy views.
The hypocrisy on the political left, however, is so blatant that it is jarring. The anti-war sentiment was rampant among the left during the Bush Administration, but somehow it suddenly disappeared when Obama took office (woe to you Cindy Sheehan, left to twist in the wind alone). Similarly, I think it is far more likely that you will see that all of the inhabitants of the left who so vociferously opposed the Patriot Act during the Bush era will now inexplicably lose their voice.
Sorry, that's completely false. The left is extremely unhappy with the Obama administration for a number of reasons. The (serious) people who had problems with Bush/Cheney policies and their expansion of executive power are no less angry with Obama than we were with them. In fact, more so.
I suggest you acquaint yourself with the actual writings of people on the left and civil libertarians on this issue, before giving in to your desire to assume that everyone on the left is a kneejerk Obama supporter or a hypocrite-- or both. It's not so.
| 729 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Sep 16, 2009 8:54:26am |
BTW, for those who want to see how the form of waterboarding the US employed was NOT like that employed in the SERE schools (which itself had been discontinued everywhere but in Navy SERE training because of the psychological harm it caused to the troops!) the relevant section in the report is 79:
79..~GIG's revie~ of the videotapes revealed
that the waterboard technique employed at was different
from the technique as described in the Dol opinion and used in the
SERE training. The difference was in the manner in which the
detainee's breathing was obstructed. At the SERE School and in the
Dol opinion". the subject's airflow is disrupted by the.firm application
of a damp cloth over the air passages; the interrogator applies a small
amount of water to the cloth in a controlled manner. By contrast; the Agency interrogator continuously applied large volumes
of water to a cloth that covered the detainee's mouth and nose.. One of
the psychologists/interrogators acknowledged that the Agency's use
of the technique differed from that used in SERE training and
explained that the Agency's technique is different because it is "for
real" and is more poignant and convincing,
By all means, let us have debates about when and where and under what circumstances torture is justified-- but let's not pretend that waterboarding isn't torture, or that what the US did was 'the same' as what was done in SERE training. These are the findings of the CIA itself.
| 730 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Sep 16, 2009 8:55:35am |
re: #720 bunnymud
"Watch as the same people who loudly supported the Patriot Act for years suddenly start to find things wrong with it.."
And vice versa
Amazing how many people are repeating this -- when it's not even remotely true.
The left wing is very upset with Obama for his failure to enact their agenda.
| 731 |
Hanoch Wed, Sep 16, 2009 8:58:41am |
re: #728 iceweasel
Except my comment related to the anti-war movement, which has virtually disappeared. Time will tell if the left will be similarly silent re: the extension of the Patriot Act.
| 732 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Sep 16, 2009 8:59:18am |
re: #731 Hanoch
Except my comment related to the anti-war movement, which has virtually disappeared. Time will tell if the left will be similarly silent re: the extension of the Patriot Act.
What a crock. The left is ALREADY furious about the Patriot Act.
| 733 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Sep 16, 2009 9:07:06am |
re: #721 Dreader1962
A heavily redacted document, but could you tell me what OMS stands for? This is the opinion of one agency (not a consensus, apparently), but what agency is it?
Coracle answered this, but I want to point out that teh report is the 2004 report of the CIA's Inspector General; it's a report on "Counterterrorism Detention and Interrogation Activities". The ACLU filed a lawsuit years ago to force it to be disclosed. There was a court order on Friday 23 August that it be disclosed the following Monday. That Monday was the same day that Eric Holder announced the appointment of a special prosecutor with a very limited brief to look into some detainee abuses and allegations. That appointment was politically motivated -- damage control, essentially -- because of the release of this report.
If the CIA's own investigations concluded that the US tortured, and that the 'guidelines' were exceeded, and recounted numerous instances of detaineee abuse and injury-- you better believe it happened, all right. God only knows what's in the redacted portions.
| 734 |
Coracle Wed, Sep 16, 2009 9:11:58am |
re: #726 iceweasel
No problem. I figured it was something like that. I thought throwing haak a bone by saying you were wrong would at least get attention.
| 735 |
Korla Pundit Wed, Sep 16, 2009 9:26:27am |
re: #730 Charles
I think we need to make a distinction between the "Left" and the media, which has certainly been a lot less vocal about the subject since Bush left office. Although a lot of people would equate the media with the Left in general.
| 737 |
Ed_Gibbon Wed, Sep 16, 2009 9:42:36am |
re: #17 MisterCookie
I'm starting to think we should run a baked pie as a candidate for 2012. They'd certainly be more competent than the hypocrites in both parties at this point.
Why bother baking it? Would prefer a "tabla rasa" Oh wait, perhaps that's what we have
| 738 |
Chaplain Wed, Sep 16, 2009 9:43:43am |
Watch as the same people who loudly supported opposed the Patriot Act for years suddenly start to find things wrong right with it.
/FTFY Charles
| 739 |
Korla Pundit Wed, Sep 16, 2009 9:48:04am |
re: #738 Chaplain
To be more accurate, those who consistently oppose the Patriot Act find themselves no longer useful to those who disingenuously parroted a "fierce moral urgency" as a bludgeon against a political foe, and who now can safely throw them under the bus.
The wheels of the bus grind slow, but they grind exceedlingly small.
| 740 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Sep 16, 2009 9:51:19am |
re: #738 Chaplain
Watch as the same people who loudly
supportedopposed the Patriot Act for years suddenly start to find thingswrongright with it./FTFY Charles
Except that isn't what's happening. At all.
re: #736 njoriole
re: the story "Obama Supports Extending Patriot Act," Charles comments:
Watch as the same people who loudly supported the Patriot Act for years suddenly start to find things wrong with it
Couldn't the snark just as easily have been
Watch as the same people who went ballistic over the enactment and use of the Patriot Act in the first place suddenly start to find a lot to agree with after all (or remain strangley silent)?
You see Charles, BS stinks both ways, whomever's mouth it comes from.
Uh, no. the snark couldn't have just as easily been that, because that is not what's happening.
The only bullshit stinking around here is your own.
I'm sick of people who are utterly ignorant of the outrage on the left over this, and the continued opposition to Obama on these policies every since he came into office, smugly pontificating about how "the left" doesn't have a problem with this.
Get a clue. Read something that isn't on the right. Go check out the left and their opinions instead of relying on reading entrails instead to find out what we think-- or on reading Freak Republic. Same difference.
| 741 |
Chaplain Wed, Sep 16, 2009 10:09:45am |
re: #730 Charles
Amazing how many people are repeating this -- when it's not even remotely true.
The left wing is very upset with Obama for his failure to enact their agenda.
Well I did some checking of my own and while it is true that the left has been upset at several things Obama has done in the past to ignore their agenda, the usual suspects who cried "tyranny" when the Patriot Act was first passed are now falling in line with Obama's support of this necessary piece of legislation. With the ACLU, one of the most vocal opponents of the Patriot Act, only willing to say that the administration's stance on this is a "mixed bag".
One of the key provisions that Obama wants to extend is the so called "lone wolf" provision. A key component of this provision is the so called "warantless wire-tapping". A buzz word that you hear thrown around a lot by news organizations and something the ACLU is strongly against.
You are right that some people might suddenly find things wrong with the Patriot Act because Obama is supporting it but you are wrong when you say that "it's not even remotely true" that the opposite is not already coming true.
| 742 |
Chaplain Wed, Sep 16, 2009 10:10:38am |
re: #740 iceweasel
Uh, no. the snark couldn't have just as easily been that, because that is not what's happening.
The only bullshit stinking around here is your own.I'm sick of people who are utterly ignorant of the outrage on the left over this, and the continued opposition to Obama on these policies every since he came into office, smugly pontificating about how "the left" doesn't have a problem with this.
Get a clue. Read something that isn't on the right. Go check out the left and their opinions instead of relying on reading entrails instead to find out what we think-- or on reading Freak Republic. Same difference.
Except that is EXACTLY what is happening... see my post above.
| 743 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Sep 16, 2009 10:14:35am |
re: #742 Chaplain
Except that is EXACTLY what is happening... see my post above.
No. It really isn't what's happening.
I have work to do, but I'll be coming back to this, you bet.
| 744 |
Korla Pundit Wed, Sep 16, 2009 10:15:27am |
By the by, I assume there will be at least one eventually, but have any formerly pro-Patriot Act pols or pundits actually come out against it now that Obama runs the Executive Branch, or is that just a prediction of future events that may affect you in the future?
| 745 |
Chaplain Wed, Sep 16, 2009 10:18:32am |
re: #743 iceweasel
No. It really isn't what's happening.
I have work to do, but I'll be coming back to this, you bet.
I look forward to it :) good luck with the work! I gotta get some things done around here myself.
| 746 |
Dreader1962 Wed, Sep 16, 2009 10:34:04am |
re: #729 iceweasel
BTW, for those who want to see how the form of waterboarding the US employed was NOT like that employed in the SERE schools (which itself had been discontinued everywhere but in Navy SERE training because of the psychological harm it caused to the troops!) the relevant section in the report is 79:
By all means, let us have debates about when and where and under what circumstances torture is justified-- but let's not pretend that waterboarding isn't torture, or that what the US did was 'the same' as what was done in SERE training. These are the findings of the CIA itself.
Updinged you here because I agree that it is destructive to the debate to claim that these methods don't constitute torture. I speak from experience regarding SERE/JPRA training - they beat the hell out of the students and subject them to worse treatment than I read in that document of 'methods' (which would be comical for the specificity if not describing serious limitations on the interrogators). The distinction of waterboarding methods being 'different' is minor in my opinion - there seems to be a total focus on this method. What about the other methods? Would they pass a review of the critics?
A rational discussion of this would make it plain that interrogation by its very nature is designed to extract information from an unwilling subject by the application of pressure. It is made clear in the document that was linked that the initial attempt to get information was unsuccessful and research was done prior to the application of the methods in question.
What bothers me the most are the consistent claims from 'experts' on the news programs that torture never works and gets you inaccurate information. I've pointed out previously that these people who are actually doing the interrogations are 'experts' as well, being professionals in the field.
As distasteful as it is, torture CAN work to derive information and the information CAN prove to be accurate. All information derived must be analyzed and corroborated - which good intel types do constantly anyway.
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eric_odessit Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:32:44pm |
I supported the Patriot Act. I still do. I am also happy that Obama chose to support extension of it and support him on that. But it does not change the fact that I still see certain problems with the Patriot Act that are unavoidable when we are trying to fight a war. I can also see how in the wrong hands it can be abused. So, while the Patriot Act is necessary, only constant public vigilance can, and hopefully will, stop potential abuses. Who knows, maybe the crazy Left was necessary to guarantee that there would be no abuses from the previous administration. Maybe now the crazy Right (myself among them) will guarantee that there will be no abuses from the current administration.
Eric.
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Korla Pundit Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:50:02pm |
My other fear is that if the Patriot Act is abused to punish political adversaries or any other mundane non-terror reason, it could lead to the dismantling of a vital tool in the War on Terror. Yes, I know War on Terror is a bad term, but I can't stand to call it "the International Effort to Reduce Manmade Boo-Boos."
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Charles Johnson Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:17:08pm |
I can't stop you from apologizing for racists, that's your business if you want to do that. But you're not welcome to do it at my site. Bye now.
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