‘No Evidence’ Rifqa Bary’s Parents Want to Kill Her

US News • Views: 7,878

The anti-Islam blogs have been hyperventilating for months over the case of Rifqa Bary — a Muslim teenager who converted to Christianity, ran away from home, and found a new home with a radical fundamentalist Christian preacher, Blake Lorenz of the “Global Revolution Church.”

People like Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer have injected themselves into this case, judged her parents, and found them guilty of intended murder — because they’re incapable of imagining that Muslim parents might not be murderous monsters. In their twisted paranoid world, all Muslims are honor killers, and that’s all there is to it. Evidence be damned. If her parents say they love her and would never hurt her … well, that’s just what a lying Muslim would say, isn’t it?

Now the Florida Department of Law Enforcement has issued a report on their extensive investigation into the charges that Rifqa Bary’s parents intended to murder her, and it concludes that there is “no evidence whatsoever of alleged abuse or threats of death made by the girl’s parents.”

(CNN) — A Florida law enforcement report has found no credible evidence that a teenager’s father threatened to kill her for converting from Islam to Christianity.

Rifqa Bary, 17, says a mosque told her family to “deal with the situation” of her Christian conversion.

The 17-year-old girl, Rifqa Bary, ran away from her family in Columbus, Ohio, in July and took refuge in the home of the Rev. Blake Lorenz with the Global Revolution Church in Orlando, Florida. The girl was moved into foster care under the supervision of Florida’s Department of Children and Family after she said in a sworn affidavit that her Muslim father threatened her.

An investigative report by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement was released Monday after a juvenile court seal order expired.

“Our investigation has provided no clear evidence of criminal activity,” said the state report.

Investigators stated they could not find any evidence to support a history of abuse. A teacher at the girl’s high school told investigators she had no reports or evidence of abuse.

The girl had told investigators her father never saw her in her school cheerleading outfit because she feared his disapproval. But investigators stated in the report they saw pictures of the girl in her cheerleading uniform prominently displayed in the living room of the Bary’s Ohio home.

(I’m fairly sure that Spencer and Geller will now attack me, but that’s standard fare for them when they’re caught out espousing bigotry and inciting hatred.)

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661 comments
1 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:11:21pm

It seems that this was a family dispute that was blown way out of proportion by outside influences.

2 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:12:49pm

And the vivid imagination of a teenaged runaway girl.

3 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:14:02pm
The girl had told investigators her father never saw her in her school cheerleading outfit because she feared his disapproval. But investigators stated in the report they saw pictures of the girl in her cheerleading uniform prominently displayed in the living room of the Bary’s Ohio home.


Fundamentalists?

4 swamprat  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:15:38pm

I await the “all muslims are evil” accusation.
The “all muslims want Sharia Law” is a refreshing variation.
We might see”wouldn’t she be better off in a Christian Home?”

I can feel the love.

put me down for comment 200

5 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:17:16pm

There are a couple things about this situation that trouble me.

One is that outsiders injected themselves into a personal matter where they didn’t belong, simply to score cheap points for their bigoted agenda.

The other is how this might damage any future actual case where a muslim convert to another religion really might be in danger from an honor killing. It a “cry wolf” sort of situation in that the next time certain bloggers hype a story like this, and it’s true, it won’t be believed.

6 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:17:40pm

re: #4 swamprat

I await the “all muslims are evil” accusation.
The “all muslims want Sharia Law” is a refreshing variation.
We might see”wouldn’t she be better off in a Christian Home?”

I can feel the love.

put me down for comment 200

I’ll go with comment 177 for the flounce.

7 funky chicken  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:18:02pm

How did a FL based cult get a hold of this girl in OH?

Sorry if I’m jumping to conclusions, but that was my suspicion from the outset.

8 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:18:26pm

re: #7 funky chicken

Facebook.

9 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:19:13pm
10 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:19:14pm

there was a time when this post would have brought out some real bigoted comments around here. glad to see that time’s gone.

11 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:19:44pm

re: #7 funky chicken

How did a FL based cult get a hold of this girl in OH?

The Internet.

12 ted  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:22:07pm

Teen-age Angst?

13 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:22:33pm

re: #5 Sharmuta


The other is how this might damage any future actual case where a muslim convert to another religion really might be in danger from an honor killing. It a “cry wolf” sort of situation in that the next time certain bloggers hype a story like this, and it’s true, it won’t be believed.


This is the part that gets me as much as the evil racism.

Of course most Muslims in this country are NOT into honor killing. Of course.

However, there is a real problem to be looked out for in certain immigrant communities and the actions of those irresponsible people involved in this only make it seem like crying wolf.

The whackos hove given us a double whammie.

14 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:23:39pm

Another link on this story has this to say:

The teen also told authorities her teacher had offered to let Bary stay at her house if she needed to get away from repercussions from her family because of her Christian faith. But when the FDLE interviewed that teacher, she told them she offered up her house because Bary’s brother was having parties with alcohol at the Bary home when their parents were out of town, and she had never been told about threats of danger to Bary because of her Christian faith.

As Killgore said earlier today: this is a fundamentalist brother who would kill his sister. Right.

15 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:23:59pm

re: #5 Sharmuta

There are a couple things about this situation that trouble me.

One is that outsiders injected themselves into a personal matter where they didn’t belong, simply to score cheap points for their bigoted agenda.

The other is how this might damage any future actual case where a muslim convert to another religion really might be in danger from an honor killing. It a “cry wolf” sort of situation in that the next time certain bloggers hype a story like this, and it’s true, it won’t be believed.

It vaguely reminds me of the Terri Schiavo case; people with prefab agandas trying to insinuate themselves into a personal, private family matter to advance their own interests, not those of the parties concerned.

At least this time Florida and the US Congress didn’t get dog-wagged by the whole thing…

16 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:25:39pm

re: #5 Sharmuta

There are a couple things about this situation that trouble me.

One is that outsiders injected themselves into a personal matter where they didn’t belong, simply to score cheap points for their bigoted agenda.

The other is how this might damage any future actual case where a muslim convert to another religion really might be in danger from an honor killing. It a “cry wolf” sort of situation in that the next time certain bloggers hype a story like this, and it’s true, it won’t be believed.

Sharmuta -

Your thumb is right on the NUB of this one. Only one question - would the Barry family consider the Emancipation of Rifqa about 6 months before she turns 18? (Roughly Her Current Age) If NOT - WHY Not?

-S-

17 Randall Gross  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:25:53pm

What I want to know is why the wacky pastor (he’s one who god talks directly to, who thinks Jesus is returning real soon, and is on a mission to Israel in 2010…) isn’t talking to the FBI for transporting a minor across state lines.

18 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:25:58pm

re: #15 Salamantis

It vaguely reminds me of the Terri Schiavo case; people with prefab agandas trying to insinuate themselves into a personal, private family matter to advance their own interests, not those of the parties concerned.

At least this time Florida and the US Congress didn’t get dog-wagged by the whole thing…

So far. Florida could still pull itself into this mess. I hope it does not.

19 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:26:29pm

I am extremely suspicious of Mr. Lorenz’s intentions towards a 17 y/o girl. Something doesn’t smell right about that.

20 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:26:53pm

re: #17 Thanos

What I want to know is why the wacky pastor (he’s one who god talks directly to, who thinks Jesus is returning real soon, and is on a mission to Israel in 2010…) isn’t talking to the FBI for transporting a minor across state lines.

Did he do that? Or did the girl find her way to FL?

21 Jimmah  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:26:57pm

Speaking of hysteria, the shrieking harpy was all over this ridiculous story as well:

They ur convertin our babeez!

22 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:27:01pm

re: #19 Slumbering Behemoth

I am extremely suspicious of Mr. Lorenz’s intentions towards a 17 y/o girl. Something doesn’t smell right about that.

Absolutely.

23 solomonpanting  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:27:12pm

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

I’ll go with comment 177 for the flounce.

I’ve a feeling it’ll be rather soon.

Cough #9

24 ted  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:27:19pm

A run-away making allegations against her parents is serious but common…Religion or race has little or no part.

25 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:27:42pm

re: #18 Dark_Falcon

So far. Florida could still pull itself into this mess. I hope it does not.

I have hopes that they won’t. After all, it was the Florida Department of Law Enforcement quote that concluded that the teen’s charges were meritless…

26 swamprat  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:27:49pm

re: #17 Thanos

What I want to know is why the wacky pastor (he’s one who god talks directly to, who thinks Jesus is returning real soon, and is on a mission to Israel in 2010…) isn’t talking to the FBI for transporting a minor across state lines.

“for immoral purposes”
Otherwise GreyHound is in deep shit.

27 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:28:04pm

re: #17 Thanos

What I want to know is why the wacky pastor (he’s one who god talks directly to, who thinks Jesus is returning real soon, and is on a mission to Israel in 2010…) isn’t talking to the FBI for transporting a minor across state lines.

The Mann ACT governs transportation for “imooral purposes”, which does not apply here. The pastor sounds like a fool and a nut, but he appears to have no ulterior motive.

28 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:28:26pm

re: #25 Salamantis

I have hopes that they won’t. After all, it was the Florida Department of Law Enforcement quote that concluded that the teen’s charges were meritless…

Umm…the FDLE report

PIMF

29 Randall Gross  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:28:27pm

re: #20 Danny

According to an article that was posted earlier her story broke down and she was picked up and transported by GRC. The article could be wrong, so too soon to state that as fact, but enough to me to warrant federal interest in the case.

30 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:28:34pm

re: #14 Sharmuta

Fundamentalist toga party! Beer bong for Allah!

31 bj1126  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:28:51pm

I’ve known Stemberger her lawyer for quite a few years now and this case has me worried. There are just too many confirmed instances of her lying about things.

In their defense though the FDLE investigation basically consisted of asking the father if he wanted to kill his daughter and taking his word for it.

32 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:29:26pm

re: #27 Dark_Falcon

The Mann ACT governs transportation for “immoral purposes”, which does not apply here. The pastor sounds like a fool and a nut, but he appears to have no ulterior motive.

PIMF

33 funky chicken  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:29:42pm

re: #8 Danny

re: #11 Charles

wow…scary as hell

it’s one reason all the family computers sit on the same table/desk in one small, open room in our house.

off to bed to nurse my cold :-~

34 arielle  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:29:44pm

Charles, thank you for posting this, there is so much JUNK on the internet! Crying wolf is never good.

35 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:30:00pm

re: #30 Killgore Trout

Fundamentalist toga party! Beer bong for Allah!

Will the Deltas be there?

36 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:30:09pm

re: #11 Charles

The Internet.

I found their website.

This “church” is really really strange (well, duh) and creepy.

Even if a person did believe this girl was in danger from her family, this church is NOT a good place for this girl to be.

I thought I might post their “values” from their website, but I think I won’t.

37 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:30:51pm

re: #2 Danny

And the vivid imagination of a teenaged runaway girl.

I don’t think it was her imagination, so much.

38 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:31:01pm

re: #17 Thanos

What I want to know is why the wacky pastor (he’s one who god talks directly to, who thinks Jesus is returning real soon, and is on a mission to Israel in 2010…) isn’t talking to the FBI for transporting a minor across state lines.

excellent point. This is a creepy, creepy church.

39 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:31:07pm

Who’s going to jihad down to the Circle K? The keg’s almost done!

40 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:31:10pm

re: #29 Thanos

Interesting. Only thing I’ve read is that the Lorenzes were cooperating with authorities. Maybe they’re just victims of their own bad judgement and gullibleness, I don’t know.

41 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:31:26pm

This girl’s tale is just as bad as false rape allegations; such lies inevitably subtract credibility from genuine complaints.

42 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:32:03pm

re: #3 Killgore Trout

Fundamentalists?

Sure. All Muslim fundamentalists want their little girls to be cheerleaders. They’re like Texans, ya know?

//

43 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:33:00pm

re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist

I don’t think it was her imagination, so much.

I suspect she’s largely responsible.

44 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:33:03pm

re: #10 spacejesus

there was a time when this post would have brought out some real bigoted comments around here. glad to see that time’s gone.

Oh, just stand by, SJ, stand by.

//hope you’re right and I’m wrong

45 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:33:58pm

re: #36 reine.de.tout

I found their website.

This “church” is really really strange (well, duh) and creepy.

Even if a person did believe this girl was in danger from her family, this church is NOT a good place for this girl to be.

I thought I might post their “values” from their website, but I think I won’t.

The “Global Revolution Church” is extremely creepy. They’re End Times fanatics.

46 What, me worry?  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:33:59pm

Judge Judy has a saying,

“How do you know when a teenager is lying?”

“When their mouths are moving.”

I love Judge Judy.

And lying teens transcend ethnicity and religion.

47 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:34:08pm

Those “two” have a tendency to be sticking their noses into places where it doesn’t belong.

48 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:34:31pm

This will reach out and hurt somebody.

It is a shame.

49 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:34:33pm

re: #36 reine.de.tout

I found their website.

This “church” is really really strange (well, duh) and creepy.

Even if a person did believe this girl was in danger from her family, this church is NOT a good place for this girl to be.

I thought I might post their “values” from their website, but I think I won’t.

Can you post a Google link?

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:34:40pm

re: #16 Dr. Shalit

Sharmuta -

Your thumb is right on the NUB of this one. Only one question - would the Barry family consider the Emancipation of Rifqa about 6 months before she turns 18? (Roughly Her Current Age) If NOT - WHY Not?

-S-

Would you? If my teenage daughter had become a Christian, hooked up with some oddball pastor, left town, and told the world I was gonna kill her, I might not think she was grown enough to take care of herself.

51 Randall Gross  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:34:44pm

re: #36 reine.de.tout

I found their website.

This “church” is really really strange (well, duh) and creepy.

Even if a person did believe this girl was in danger from her family, this church is NOT a good place for this girl to be.

I thought I might post their “values” from their website, but I think I won’t.

Yeah I watched a few of his vids a while back, he seems to be one of those sorts who thinks Israel is their personal apocalypse machine. He’s got somewhat of an Obama style too — says something over the top, then backtracks to soften it.

52 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:35:10pm

re: #50 SanFranciscoZionist

Would you? If my teenage daughter had become a Christian, hooked up with some oddball pastor, left town, and told the world I was gonna kill her, I might not think she was grown enough to take care of herself.

Not to say that becoming a Christian is a sign of imbalance or immaturity, simply that under the circumstances…

53 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:35:19pm

re: #49 Dark_Falcon

Can you post a Google link?

If you insist.

54 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:35:28pm

re: #43 Danny

I suspect she’s largely responsible.

From earlier stories I’ve seen I think the pastor was the one putting stuff in her head. She didn’t even understand honor killings. She wasn’t raised in a fundamentalist home. The pastor found her online and started feeding her ideas.

55 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:36:14pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

Very possible.

56 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:36:17pm

re: #45 Charles

The “Global Revolution Church” is extremely creepy. They’re End Times fanatics.

Geez…Revelation fundies always have been the craziest…

/which is why the steller sales figures for the Left Behind series so greatly disturbs me

57 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:36:42pm

re: #24 ted

A run-away making allegations against her parents is serious but common…Religion or race has little or no part.

I’m not worried about the kid’s allegations, I’m worried about all the unrelated adults who decided this was their business.

58 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:36:45pm

re: #36 reine.de.tout

I found their website.

This “church” is really really strange (well, duh) and creepy.

Even if a person did believe this girl was in danger from her family, this church is NOT a good place for this girl to be.

I thought I might post their “values” from their website, but I think I won’t.

Why not? People should see it. I’ll post it:

Values:
1. We believe in a presence-based church where people genuinely and authentically encounter God.
2. We believe in the radical “Sermon on the Mount” lifestyle.
3. We believe in a spiritual revolution that will ignite the transformation of our culture.
4. We believe in leadership based on sound Biblical principles.
5. We believe in global preparation for the return of Jesus Christ, especially through 24/7 prayer and worship and through raising up end-time messengers.
6. We believe in building a spirit-led organization into true excellence.
7. We believe in building aBiblical family culture, nurturing parents and children alike, and ushering them into the presence of God.
8. We believe in building the body to be the bride of Christ - without spot, wrinkle or blemish.
9. We believe Israel is the prophetic key to the return of Jesus Christ.
10. We believe in signs and wonders that confirm that Jesus Christ is Lord

They’re the End TImer types who think Israel is their personal Doomsday Machine. That stuff always creeps me out. Leave Israel alone.

59 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:36:59pm

Under a headline “ENCOUNTER GOD”, they have their online giving form.
LOL.
creepy.

60 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:37:04pm

re: #24 ted

A run-away making allegations against her parents is serious but common…Religion or race has little or no part.

ted -

Perhaps I am uncommon. Did the “runaway” bit back in the day. No allegations against parents - just wanted more FREEDOM/AUTONOMY than I had. Took a few “knocks” - went back home - took some “poop” for awhile - and ultimately got permanent respect for having done it. That is all.

-S-

61 Teh Flowah  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:37:09pm

I wasn’t convinced until I saw this:

“The girl had told investigators her father never saw her in her school cheerleading outfit because she feared his disapproval. But investigators stated in the report they saw pictures of the girl in her cheerleading uniform prominently displayed in the living room of the Bary’s Ohio home.”

Before that, it was just a he said, she said.

62 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:38:01pm

re: #59 reine.de.tout

God accepts Paypal? How nice.

63 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:38:18pm

re: #53 reine.de.tout

If you insist.

You’re right, they’re nutty.

64 brennk2  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:38:42pm

I’m not all that surprised I guess to see a teenage girl making up lies so she can take off like she did. I too thank Charles for posting this. If I might add just one thing though. At the end of the post Charles added - “I’m fairly sure that Spencer and Geller will now attack me, but that’s standard fare for them when they’re caught out espousing bigotry and inciting hatred.” I know there is some history here but to keep bringing it up when it’s not really on point is like Savage continuing to talk about being banned in Britain. Not that I want to get banned mind you. Just making a hopefully constructive point.

65 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:38:48pm

There have been all too many real honor killings. Whether this one will turn out that way or not is impossible to say. Why take the chance? Few runaway girls of 17 would be returned to a home they are mortally afraid of. Few should be.

At 18, anyone may strike out on their own. At 17, a good fraction of young people have enough maturity to do so. Many of us lizards will have been away at college by the time they were 17, for instance. A 17 year old is technically a minor, but really!

The exceptions that might justify compelling a girl to return to her family home would be cases in which the girl is clearly incapable of looking out for herself…into drugs, for instance, or begging rather than landing some sort of job, or keeping company with known criminals.

66 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:38:52pm

re: #58 Sharmuta

They’re the End TImer types who think Israel is their personal Doomsday Machine. That stuff always creeps me out. Leave Israel alone.

Shar - I find that stuff so creepy.
I have had (or tried to have) conversations with glassy-eyed people who talk just like that stuff reads. I find it very disturbing that a person cannot have a normal conversation, but can only converse by quoting Bible verses and “values”.

67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:39:22pm

re: #58 Sharmuta

2. We believe in the radical “Sermon on the Mount” lifestyle.

Where, in the “Sermon on the Mount” does it say, “Find a hot Muslim cheerleader and move her to your compound”?

68 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:39:30pm

re: #58 Sharmuta

re: #45 Charles

Believe me, most Israelis would love it, just love it if everyone would just leave them alone…

69 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:39:51pm

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

Not to say that becoming a Christian is a sign of imbalance or immaturity, simply that under the circumstances…

SanFransiscoZionist -

See My # 60 with the understanding that it IS “Different for Girls.”

-S-

70 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:39:56pm

re: #43 Danny

I suspect she’s largely responsible.

My take is that she’s an impressionable teenage girl, and the pastor is a nutjob. I could have that totally wrong.

71 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:39:59pm

re: #60 Dr. Shalit

ted -

Perhaps I am uncommon. Did the “runaway” bit back in the day. No allegations against parents - just wanted more FREEDOM/AUTONOMY than I had. Took a few “knocks” - went back home - took some “poop” for awhile - and ultimately got permanent respect for having done it. That is all.

-S-

I had a cousin run away at age 15, to some sort of hippie commune in New Mexico.
She stayed for quite awhile.

72 swamprat  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:40:09pm

from the story:

The girl had told investigators her father never saw her in her school cheerleading outfit because she feared his disapproval. But investigators stated in the report they saw pictures of the girl in her cheerleading uniform prominently displayed in the living room of the Bary’s Ohio home.

UNPOSSIBLE! Muslims cannot assimilate into American culture!

Oh wait. Yes, they can…so…”They’re takin’ our jerrrbs!”…but they’re Americans, so how can they be taking Americans’ jobs, when they pay American taxes and they are themselves American?…It’s all so confusing!

73 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:40:16pm

re: #58 Sharmuta

No. 8, plus this thread topic. It just smells real fricken’ wrong.

74 Randall Gross  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:40:24pm

re: #55 Danny

Very possible.

They’ve got a nationwide ‘youth outreach” program, “Cross Culture” — for some reason that page has been taken down at their site

75 What, me worry?  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:40:28pm

re: #58 Sharmuta

Those are them thar “funny” Zionists. And not ha-ha either.

76 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:40:51pm

re: #63 Dark_Falcon

Religion always seems a little goofy to me but the did hit one of my pet peeves…

9. We believe Israel is the prophetic key to the return of Jesus Christ.

Israel is a real country with real people living in it. It’s not someone’s personal doomsday machine.

77 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:41:19pm

re: #71 reine.de.tout

I had a cousin run away at age 15, to some sort of hippie commune in New Mexico.
She stayed for quite awhile.

Queenie -

How did she turn out? ‘Bout the same age I did it.

-S-

78 jaunte  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:41:41pm

Mr. Bary sounds like a good father.

When Rifqa was born, her family was wealthy and lived in Galle, Sri Lanka. They owned a large house and enjoyed the benefits of a driver, a cook and a maid.
Rifqa was a tiny newborn, just 5 pounds, and very quiet, Aysha Bary said. When Rifqa was 5, she fell onto a toy airplane. It left her blind in the right eye.
Her father insisted she get medical care in the United States. He feared her care would mean a long separation from his wife and son, so he moved the family to Queens, N.Y., in 2000.
Muslim family: Problems with Rifqa Bary began with laptop gift
79 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:41:44pm

re: #58 Sharmuta

They’re the End TImer types who think Israel is their personal Doomsday Machine. That stuff always creeps me out. Leave Israel alone.

Heh, beat me to that one.
:)

80 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:41:55pm

Q: Who would you rather meet in a dark alley; a mugger or a fundamentalist?

A: A mugger; he only wants your money or your life.

Q: Why are fundamentalists nicknamed fundies?

A: Because they’re always after your funds.

81 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:41:59pm

re: #46 marjoriemoon

Judge Judy has a saying,

“How do you know when a teenager is lying?”

“When their mouths are moving.”

I love Judge Judy.

And lying teens transcend ethnicity and religion.

There’s a House episode where a teenage faith healer is resisting treatment, and his father orders him to cooperate with the doctors. Kid says, “Don’t you have faith in me?”

His father says “I have faith in the Lord. You I trust, insofar as it’s possible to trust a teenage boy.”

That pretty much sums it all up. And I also love Judge Judy.

82 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:43:06pm

re: #80 Salamantis

Q: Who would you rather meet in a dark alley; a mugger or a fundamentalist?

A: A mugger; he only wants your money or your life.

Q: Why are fundamentalists nicknamed fundies?

A: Because they’re always after your funds.

Loves it!

83 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:43:40pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

From earlier stories I’ve seen I think the pastor was the one putting stuff in her head. She didn’t even understand honor killings. She wasn’t raised in a fundamentalist home. The pastor found her online and started feeding her ideas.

I see it beginning with her wanting attention from people on line that she shared faith with. She explains that her parents are Muslims and don’t understand her. And the pastor says—“Why, you’re in mortal danger.”

Things go from there.

84 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:43:48pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

My take is that she’s an impressionable teenage girl, and the pastor is a nutjob. I could have that totally wrong.

In my experience, pretty much all teenage girls are impressionable. They also have a habit of rebelling against parents around the age of 14-18.

85 swamprat  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:43:56pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

God accepts Paypal? How nice.


Absolutely!

86 arielle  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:45:14pm

re: #84 Danny

Which is why we’ve already started building the moat that will go around our house. It comes with alligators.

87 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:45:21pm

re: #73 Slumbering Behemoth

No. 8, plus this thread topic. It just smells real fricken’ wrong.

The irony is how the founder of islam is viewed in regards to young women, and here we see that interest in young women being shown by one supposedly trying to save a girl from islam. Hypocritical creepy.

88 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:45:27pm

re: #58 Sharmuta

They’re the End TImer types who think Israel is their personal Doomsday Machine. That stuff always creeps me out. Leave Israel alone.

I don’t know what an end-time messenger is, and the relationship of fundamentalist churches to Israel is always a complicated one, but other than that they don’t sound too different from my local liberal Methodists.

However, they’ve demonstrated their craziness admirably.

89 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:45:48pm

Here’s Pamela ranting like a lunatic:

90 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:45:48pm

re: #59 reine.de.tout

Under a headline “ENCOUNTER GOD”, they have their online giving form.
LOL.
creepy.

OK, that’s weird.

91 jaunte  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:46:07pm

re: #9 bofhell

Don’t you have an evolution post to write?

Just sayin’…

What are you talking about?

92 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:46:37pm

re: #86 arielle

Which is why we’ve already started building the moat that will go around our house. It comes with alligators.

In Florida, any moat comes with alligators.

93 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:46:46pm

re: #77 Dr. Shalit

Queenie -

How did she turn out? ‘Bout the same age I did it.

-S-

hoo-boy.
She had a baby.
The dad ran off.
She came back to La., went to law school, became a lawyer.
The dad came back when the kid was 16; said what happened in the earlier abandonment was that he went out for milk and forgot to come home. She believed it (!!!)
She married the dad.
She divorced the dad, and had to move out of state because he was harrassing her.
Weird life all the way around.
Smart smart smart, and just stupid stupid stupid, all at the same time.

94 What, me worry?  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:46:57pm

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

There’s a House episode where a teenage faith healer is resisting treatment, and his father orders him to cooperate with the doctors. Kid says, “Don’t you have faith in me?”

His father says “I have faith in the Lord. You I trust, insofar as it’s possible to trust a teenage boy.”

That pretty much sums it all up. And I also love Judge Judy.

hehe I really don’t mean to demean the girl. She was unhappy with her home, hated her parents maybe? If I could tell you all the reasons from 15-18 that I hated my parents (and I was on my own at 17) it would fill this page. It’s part of growing up.

I haven’t been following the case, but seems the church took advantage of this and exploited it.

95 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:47:10pm

re: #92 Dark_Falcon

In Florida, any moat comes with alligators.

If you build it they will come…;~)

96 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:47:40pm

re: #78 jaunte

Mr. Bary sounds like a good father.

Yep, he does.

97 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:47:56pm

re: #89 Charles

It’s like she’s proud of her cleavage or something.

98 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:48:30pm

re: #65 lostlakehiker

There have been all too many real honor killings. Whether this one will turn out that way or not is impossible to say. Why take the chance? Few runaway girls of 17 would be returned to a home they are mortally afraid of. Few should be.

At 18, anyone may strike out on their own. At 17, a good fraction of young people have enough maturity to do so. Many of us lizards will have been away at college by the time they were 17, for instance. A 17 year old is technically a minor, but really!

The exceptions that might justify compelling a girl to return to her family home would be cases in which the girl is clearly incapable of looking out for herself…into drugs, for instance, or begging rather than landing some sort of job, or keeping company with known criminals.

I will admit that a teeny voice in the back of my mind is worried that the Bary’s will unexpectedly turn out to be total sociopaths. I don’t think it’s going to happen, but DAMN. Always that worry.

That said, do you actually think this girl is capable of taking care of herself as an adult, when her first foray into adulthood was to travel out of the state and put herself in the hands of crazy people?

99 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:48:56pm

re: #92 Dark_Falcon

No pythons?

100 jaunte  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:49:04pm

re: #89 Charles

Bizarre.

101 Randall Gross  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:49:09pm

Note that he’s got a mission to Israel this year — and that according to him god talks to him personally, not metaphorically or mysteriously. From watching some of his vids I suspect the mission will be to “perfect the Jews”

102 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:49:28pm

re: #80 Salamantis

Q: Who would you rather meet in a dark alley; a mugger or a fundamentalist?

A: A mugger; he only wants your money or your life.

Q: Why are fundamentalists nicknamed fundies?

A: Because they’re always after your funds.

Salamantis -

Take it a step further - a “Fundie” wants to “guide” both your body and being/soul. That is a LOT to give. Give it only wisely after MUCH thought.

-S-

103 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:49:32pm

re: #97 Danny

It’s like she’s proud of her cleavage or something.

I’m sure she paid a lot of money for that cleavage; of course she’s proud of it.
/

104 transient  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:50:19pm

re: #101 Thanos

From watching some of his vids I suspect the mission will be to “perfect the Jews”

God knows we’re imperfect but I don’t quite think he’s the man for the job.

105 What, me worry?  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:51:08pm

re: #89 Charles

I’ll tell her about what or rather who, is a no-brainer.

We’re talking about a teenage girl who is still a minor and the church has no business interfering without the parents consent. Do I have that wrong? I wonder if the parents could sue for kidnapping.

106 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:51:12pm

re: #89 Charles

Oh, harr, harr Charles, you punk’d me good.

You had me thinking that was a link to a Pam rant, and all it got for clicking it was a clip from that old tv series “V”.
///

107 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:52:38pm

re: #105 marjoriemoon

Kidnapping has to be against the person’s will. I doubt that’s the case here.

108 Ojoe  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:52:50pm

If true about parents, score one point for civilization.

109 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:52:50pm

8. We believe in building the body to be the bride of Christ - without spot, wrinkle or blemish

??? They believe in plastic surgery? Pilates? I missed the part in the bible where we are all supposed to be physically perfect.

110 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:53:01pm

Greetings. First time signing on today. Did I already miss the meltdowns?

111 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:53:25pm

re: #91 jaunte

What are you talking about?

IIRC Charles mentioned earlier he had an evolution related item or two he might post today. I think a lot of people are waiting for Flouncopallooza or something.

112 What, me worry?  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:53:41pm

re: #107 Danny

Kidnapping has to be against the person’s will. I doubt that’s the case here.

But a minor is not capable of making these decisions on their own, against the parents’ will.

113 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:54:33pm

re: #109 EmmmieG

8. We believe in building the body to be the bride of Christ - without spot, wrinkle or blemish

??? They believe in plastic surgery? Pilates? I missed the part in the bible where we are all supposed to be physically perfect.

I think pilates in mentioned in Dante’s Inferno somewhere. People sometimes forget it’s not canon.

/

114 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:54:54pm

re: #89 Charles

Here’s Pamela ranting like a lunatic:


Gellar sez:

“We don’t have to have a conversation about apostasy, even though we should.”

So let’s see. Gellar is a religious cleric as well as being a bombastic meddler?

115 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:54:58pm

re: #112 marjoriemoon

Not lawfully, but they can still consent, so unless there’s some sort of statutory kidnapping law in Ohio…

116 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:55:06pm

re: #109 EmmmieG

8. We believe in building the body to be the bride of Christ - without spot, wrinkle or blemish

??? They believe in plastic surgery? Pilates? I missed the part in the bible where we are all supposed to be physically perfect.

Damn!
You mean I can stop doing my yoga and pilates?

117 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:55:07pm

re: #110 bosforus

Greetings. First time signing on today. Did I already miss the meltdowns?

No, we’re still expecting one.

118 swamprat  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:55:09pm

re: #89 Charles

I would rather listen to klingon poetry recited by a 14 year old with a bad cold.
I will never get that time back.

119 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:55:23pm

There’s no rush to get to the evolution posts. But I do have a good one lined up.

120 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:55:40pm

re: #105 marjoriemoon

I’ll tell her about what or rather who, is a no-brainer.

We’re talking about a teenage girl who is still a minor and the church has no business interfering without the parents consent. Do I have that wrong? I wonder if the parents could sue for kidnapping.

I have no idea about that, but I do wonder what the girl told them.

I understand there is a predisposition to think that the church is wrong, but many well-intentioned people have been taken in by teen-aged hysteria. More investigation will show what is going on.

You can easily be right, but let’s all be as careful as we have been about the initial charges.

121 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:55:43pm

I am curious about the applicable laws.
Doesn’t a 17 year old, if of sound mind and good health, have the right to leave home?

122 jaunte  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:56:00pm

re: #89 Charles

Here’s Pamela ranting like a lunatic:

Now I know the shrieking harpy line was not just figurative.

123 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:56:13pm

re: #111 ArchangelMichael

IIRC Charles mentioned earlier he had an evolution related item or two he might post today. I think a lot of people are waiting for Flouncopallooza or something.

Or woul prefer that people be diverted from this thread…

124 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:56:22pm

re: #117 Dark_Falcon

Yesterday was a busy day. It’s like wack-a-mole sometimes around here. Or swatting mosquitoes.

125 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:56:44pm

re: #123 Salamantis

Or woul prefer that people be diverted from this thread…

I was thinking that too, but I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt.

126 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:57:10pm

re: #109 EmmmieG

8. We believe in building the body to be the bride of Christ - without spot, wrinkle or blemish

??? They believe in plastic surgery? Pilates? I missed the part in the bible where we are all supposed to be physically perfect.

That’s the sort of stuff that makes anyone wince, isn’t it?

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:57:16pm

re: #113 ArchangelMichael

I think pilates in mentioned in Dante’s Inferno somewhere. People sometimes forget it’s not canon.

/

I suspect the ‘without blemish’ is somehow derived from the laws relating to sacrifice. I have no idea how they decided this meant people shouldn’t get wrinkles.

128 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:57:21pm

re: #120 Dianna

I have no idea about that, but I do wonder what the girl told them.

I understand there is a predisposition to think that the church is wrong, but many well-intentioned people have been taken in by teen-aged hysteria. More investigation will show what is going on.

You can easily be right, but let’s all be as careful as we have been about the initial charges.

I waited quite a while before posting this. I’ve been following it all along, but I deliberately waited until the official investigation was complete. And just as I thought would happen, the insane rantings of Geller and Spencer have turned out to be completely unfounded.

129 Randall Gross  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:57:25pm

re: #119 Charles

Illustra?

130 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:57:51pm

re: #85 swamprat

Also see…
Frank Zappa - The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing+Heavenly Bank Account - Paris 1980

131 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:57:53pm

re: #119 Charles

There’s no rush to get to the evolution posts. But I do have a good one lined up.

There is a rush! I have to go to bed in less than an hour! I’m gonna miss all the fun!

132 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:58:10pm

re: #121 Spare O’Lake

I am curious about the applicable laws.
Doesn’t a 17 year old, if of sound mind and good health, have the right to leave home?

I think 17 is a strange sort of “gray-area” age.
You’re not an adult.
Neither are you any longer a “juvenile”, and if you’re hanging around with 16-year-olds and get into some sort of trouble, you can be charged with “contributing to the deliquency of a juvenile” (happened to a friend’s son).
Weird age.

133 SteveC  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:58:11pm

Drive by post before beddy bye -

I mentioned my friend Paul, who got a Heart Transplant on Thursday, 9/10. Here’s a photo of Paul’s daughter checking out her dad’s new heart! :)

(This photo is up on his blog)

134 Randall Gross  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:58:28pm

re: #121 Spare O’Lake

Depends on the state laws in Ohio, I don’t know them. Any volunteers?

135 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:58:52pm

re: #112 marjoriemoon

But a minor is not capable of making these decisions on their own, against the parents’ will.

marge -

That is a legal construction, NOT a reality for a headstrong teenager. Had I been able to make it on my own at about age 16, I would have NEVER gone home. I couldn’t, and I did, an early, lost revolution that failed and taught me lessons.

-S-

136 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:59:21pm

re: #133 SteveC

Drive by post before beddy bye -

I mentioned my friend Paul, who got a Heart Transplant on Thursday, 9/10. Here’s a photo of Paul’s daughter checking out her dad’s new heart! :)

(This photo is up on his blog)

Link doesn’t work.

137 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:59:26pm

re: #121 Spare O’Lake

I am curious about the applicable laws.
Doesn’t a 17 year old, if of sound mind and good health, have the right to leave home?

Only in Missouri. Most other states it’s 18, and a few it’s 19.

138 Miss Molly  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:59:28pm

As this girl is so close to be 18 years of age she could request emancipated status by the court.

139 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:59:44pm

re: #128 Charles

I waited quite a while before posting this. I’ve been following it all along. I waited until the official investigation was complete. And just as I thought would happen, the insane rantings of Geller and Spencer have turned out to be completely unfounded.

You’re not alone. I haven’t said word one, not having much information.

I’m just thinking that this church might - emphasis on the “might” - have been taken in by teenage hysteria, too.

You’ve been careful about not rushing ahead of the evidence; please, let’s keep it that way.

140 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:00:02pm

re: #131 Dianna

There is a rush! I have to go to bed in less than an hour! I’m gonna miss all the fun!

I suspect that eventually this thread will be flouncopalooza.

141 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:00:06pm

re: #89 Charles

Heh. Let those puppies breath!

142 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:00:07pm

re: #135 Dr. Shalit

marge -

That is a legal construction, NOT a reality for a headstrong teenager. Had I been able to make it on my own at about age 16, I would have NEVER gone home. I couldn’t, and I did, an early, lost revolution that failed and taught me lessons.

-S-

And you probably had a better life than my cousin has had.

143 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:00:33pm

re: #131 Dianna

There is a rush! I have to go to bed in less than an hour! I’m gonna miss all the fun!

[leaning on his cane]

It ain’t like the old days…back then, hordes of creationist trolls would walk uphill both ways in hip deep snow just to stick Genesis in public high school science class!

Ah, I remember…

/lapses into introspective muttering…

144 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:00:33pm

re: #131 Dianna

There is a rush! I have to go to bed in less than an hour! I’m gonna miss all the fun!

It won’t be tonight — probably tomorrow.

145 What, me worry?  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:01:03pm

re: #120 Dianna

I have no idea about that, but I do wonder what the girl told them.

I understand there is a predisposition to think that the church is wrong, but many well-intentioned people have been taken in by teen-aged hysteria. More investigation will show what is going on.

You can easily be right, but let’s all be as careful as we have been about the initial charges.

True. This girl opened a can of worms which I’m sure she had no idea about, other than being angry at her parents. And like I say that’s par for the course.

At some point an outside adult should have stepped in to get to the bottom of it before it got to this point. Some counseling with her parents maybe to find the truth? That’s why I’m not happy about the church’s actions.

146 SteveC  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:01:17pm

re: #109 EmmmieG

8. We believe in building the body to be the bride of Christ - without spot, wrinkle or blemish

??? They believe in plastic surgery? Pilates? I missed the part in the bible where we are all supposed to be physically perfect.

I’m a 43 year old man living with a heart defect. When I was 5 months old, a world renowned Cardiologist told my parents that I had to have surgery now or else I only had a few hours to live.

Am I not a living miracle?

147 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:01:18pm

So here is an old joke…

I’ve heard it told about used car salesmen, TV preachers and Politicians..

I’ll tell the politician version.

In the bio labs, we have gotten away from using lab rats for experiments and gone to politicians… We did this for three reasons…

1. They are cheaper to get.
2. The lab techs don’t get as attached to them.
3. There are some things rats won’t do.

148 Desert Dog  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:01:42pm

re: #143 Salamantis

[leaning on his cane]

It ain’t like the old days…back then, hordes of creationist trolls would walk uphill both ways in hip deep snow just to stick Genesis in public high school science class!

Ah, I remember…

/lapses into introspective muttering…

Did they evolve into something better? Or, did natural selection once again remove the weaker genes from the pool?

149 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:01:48pm

re: #146 SteveC

I’m a 43 year old man living with a heart defect. When I was 5 months old, a world renowned Cardiologist told my parents that I had to have surgery now or else I only had a few hours to live.

Am I not a living miracle?

YES, indeed you are!

150 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:02:14pm

re: #121 Spare O’Lake

I am curious about the applicable laws.
Doesn’t a 17 year old, if of sound mind and good health, have the right to leave home?

No. Not just because she wants to, anyway.

151 Randall Gross  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:02:27pm

It’s funny how the same sorts of people who thought parents ought to control Terry Schiavo after she was adult and married are the sorts arguing that the parents shouldn’t have some say when it comes to their minor daughter.

152 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:02:57pm

re: #148 Desert Dog

Did they evolve into something better? Or, did natural selection once again remove the weaker genes from the pool?

A little bit of both. But much more of the latter, unfortunately…

153 What, me worry?  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:03:17pm

re: #132 reine.de.tout

Seeing as you really don’t get “cooked” until maybe… maybe your late 20’s early 30’s, 17 is usually far too young to make dramatic decisions. Particularly that hormones are still raging.

154 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:03:48pm

re: #141 Killgore Trout

Heh. Let those puppies breath!

Pet Peeve exercise session!

Can we please figure out the difference between “breath” (that is, “I took a breath and then”) and “breathe” (that is, “I stopped to breathe and then”)? Please?

155 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:04:11pm

re: #153 marjoriemoon

Seeing as you really don’t get “cooked” until maybe… maybe your late 20’s early 30’s, 17 is usually far too young to make dramatic decisions. Particularly that hormones are still raging.

Oh, I agree.
I was just saying that in many states, 17 is a strange age - not yet an adult, no longer a juvenile. Strange.

156 SteveC  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:04:18pm

re: #136 reine.de.tout

Link doesn’t work.

Yeah. And I don’t know why. :(

Here’s a link to the main page. You’ll see the photo there.

Sorry for the mis-step!

157 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:04:39pm

re: #144 Charles

It won’t be tonight — probably tomorrow.

*Sniffle*

I’ll be at martial arts, then.

*sniffle*

158 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:04:46pm

re: #154 Dianna

Pet Peeve exercise session!

Can we please figure out the difference between “breath” (that is, “I took a breath and then”) and “breathe” (that is, “I stopped to breathe and then”)? Please?

I stand corrected.

159 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:05:15pm

…Humbly.

160 razorbacker  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:05:27pm

I always have this…problem, when talking about 17 year old ‘kids’. Yeah. I know that they’re children.

But, come 18, they’re pretty much adult. Is that extra 12 months that important?

I left home at 17 (long story. I loved my parents, but some of that stuff just wasn’t right). I moved away, moved in with some people that I knew, and waited until I turned 18. Then I took advantage of my scholarship and went off to college. I turned out fair to middling.

That said, I know some 45 year olds that I wouldn’t trust to wash my car.

Used to be, most people were married at 17 or 18, and began their independent life.

161 DailyCOS  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:05:30pm

re: #49 Dark_Falcon

Can you post a Google link?

In the fine tradition of lizards with the wise-ass gene, I can’t pass this one up.

What? Who doesn’t know how to Google?

/

162 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:05:48pm

re: #154 Dianna

Please?

What happens if I say “no”?

163 SteveC  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:06:09pm

re: #149 reine.de.tout

YES, indeed you are!

These yahoos seem to think not! I think they are reading from the book of 2nd Opinions!

164 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:06:36pm

re: #162 Slumbering Behemoth

What happens if I say “no”?

You get to find out what she’s learning at martial arts?

165 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:06:38pm

re: #121 Spare O’Lake

I am curious about the applicable laws.
Doesn’t a 17 year old, if of sound mind and good health, have the right to leave home?

Varies from state to state exactly how it works but I think in California you have to file a petition for emancipation of a minor which has to be OKed by a judge and requires a court battle (the basis for the 1984 film “Irreconcilable Differences”) if the parents wont sign it.

166 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:06:42pm

The really vile thing about this is the complete depersonalization of Bary’s parents by the Spencer-Geller gang. There’s absolutely nothing the parents could say or do that would convince the anti-Islam ravers that they’re not going to hurt their daughter.

Just for one second, put yourself in the place of a parent who’s being accused of wanting to murder their own daughter — unjustly. Imagine how much suffering is being inflicted on them by this ordeal and the sheer hatred of the anti-Islam nutbags, as they’re dragged into the public spotlight and portrayed as inhuman murdering beasts, when they have done nothing to warrant it. It’s just beyond disgusting.

167 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:06:47pm

re: #138 Miss Molly

As this girl is so close to be 18 years of age she could request emancipated status by the court.

In her shoes, I wouldn’t. Can you imagine how irate the court is with her right now?

168 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:07:01pm
169 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:07:14pm

re: #142 reine.de.tout

And you probably had a better life than my cousin has had.

Queenie -

Put it this way, I to this day do NOT consider myself to be wrong about the “runaway”, just unready.
Being a Male at the time was probably an advantage. I have been up and down since, the early experience teaching me that “down” is not an end and “up” is still available with enough effort.

-S-

170 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:07:40pm

re: #158 Killgore Trout

I stand corrected.

I wouldn’t worry about it; the kennel is awfully full, and it’s hard to keep all those peeves exercised.

171 razorbacker  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:07:59pm

re: #144 Charles

It won’t be tonight — probably tomorrow.

Can you go ahead and open the overnight open thread?

172 Ojoe  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:08:14pm

re: #89 Charles

Well she’s obviously nuts.


Pretty awful building she’s standing in front of also.

173 swamprat  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:08:25pm

re: #168 DailyCOS
I don’t think you are long for this world, sock.

174 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:08:40pm

re: #155 reine.de.tout

Oh, I agree.
I was just saying that in many states, 17 is a strange age - not yet an adult, no longer a juvenile. Strange.

Up in my neck of the woods, in custody disputes a healthy child of 17 would almost always get to choose which parent she wants to live with.

175 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:08:51pm

re: #162 Slumbering Behemoth

What happens if I say “no”?

Absolutely nothing. I may sigh, or even make little moaning noises, but since it’s cyberspace, you’re safe from even those minor annoyances and rebukes.

176 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:09:45pm

re: #168 DailyCOS

Maybe that did it…I’m feeling it now.. Acorn rage bubbling up…Yes…I can feel it now…wait…hold on…
/damn lost it.
//Don’t care

177 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:10:01pm

re: #175 Dianna

Dang. I liked EmmieG’s idea better. :(
/

178 SteveC  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:10:05pm

re: #164 EmmmieG

You get to find out what she’s learning at martial arts?

Everybody was Kung Fu Fighting
Those kicks were fast as lightning
In fact, it was a little bit frightening
But they fought with expert timing

Bad Lizards, drawing me into the discussion! :)

179 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:10:10pm

re: #166 Charles

The really vile thing about this is the complete depersonalization of Bary’s parents by the Spencer-Geller gang. There’s absolutely nothing the parents could say or do that would convince the anti-Islam ravers that they’re not going to hurt their daughter.

Just for one second, put yourself in the place of a parent who’s being accused of wanting to murder their own daughter — unjustly. Imagine how much suffering is being inflicted on them by this ordeal and the sheer hatred of the anti-Islam nutbags, as they’re dragged into the public spotlight and portrayed as inhuman murdering beasts, when they have done nothing to warrant it. It’s just beyond disgusting.

This is where all this ‘taqqiyah is a way of life in Islam’ thinking you see on lots of sites get us. People convince themselves that Muslims are incapable of decency, and that anything they say is false. And yes, it’s beyond disgusting.

180 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:10:31pm

re: #166 Charles

The really vile thing about this is the complete depersonalization of Bary’s parents by the Spencer-Geller gang. There’s absolutely nothing the parents could say or do that would convince the anti-Islam ravers that they’re not going to hurt their daughter.

Just for one second, put yourself in the place of a parent who’s being accused of wanting to murder their own daughter — unjustly. Imagine how much suffering is being inflicted on them by this ordeal, and the sheer hatred of the anti-Islam nutbags, as they’re dragged into the public spotlight and portrayed as inhuman murdering beasts. It’s just beyond disgusting.

That’s why religious intolerance resembles racism and sexism. Human beings have their individual humanity deleted, and are utterly defined by their ‘other’ faiths, just as they are utterly defined by their different complexions and bodily configurations.

As a Pagan, I have experienced this dismayingly painful phenomenon firsthand.

181 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:10:39pm

re: #166 Charles

The really vile thing about this is the complete depersonalization of Bary’s parents by the Spencer-Geller gang. There’s absolutely nothing the parents could say or do that would convince the anti-Islam ravers that they’re not going to hurt their daughter.

Just for one second, put yourself in the place of a parent who’s being accused of wanting to murder their own daughter — unjustly. Imagine how much suffering is being inflicted on them by this ordeal and the sheer hatred of the anti-Islam nutbags, as they’re dragged into the public spotlight and portrayed as inhuman murdering beasts, when they have done nothing to warrant it. It’s just beyond disgusting.

Very well said.

182 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:10:44pm

re: #176 Killgore Trout

Use the force, Trout!

183 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:11:01pm
184 swamprat  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:12:03pm

If we all try hard and wish, Killgore will hate ACORN!

C’mon. Everybody try hard!

/worked for tinkerbell

185 jaunte  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:12:06pm

Just like tee-ball.

186 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:12:20pm

Once upon a time there was a young woman, who at 16 converted away from her parents’ religion. Nobody did it; she studied at the library and converted herself after knowing members of the other religion. At 18, she informed her parents. They weren’t happy, but she was 18. They did not kick her out of the house or punish her in any way.

Her mother was worried that the grandkids wouldn’t love her as much as the other grandmother. She was wrong. The grandkids were raised without a bad word about either grandmother, and loved them both dearly.

That girl was my mother.

No point to make, just saying.

187 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:12:49pm

re: #176 Killgore Trout

Math.dailyCOS(0 brains) = 1 big wack-a-mole.

188 What, me worry?  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:13:09pm

re: #155 reine.de.tout

Oh, I agree.
I was just saying that in many states, 17 is a strange age - not yet an adult, no longer a juvenile. Strange.

Well still a legally minor though.

Folks here should know that the Fl Dept of Children’s Services was in deep, hot water over the Rilya Wilson case. The little 3 year old that was put in her grandmother’s care by the state, disappeared and was never found. She became the poster child for the neglect within Florida’s children’s services. Mostly that there weren’t enough social workers, the ones they had were overloaded with cases and many were never followed up.

I’m glad at least to see that the state investigated this thoroughly so maybe things are really changing.

189 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:13:23pm

Am I receiving a radiological alarm? Inbound nuclear ordnance?

190 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:13:30pm

re: #175 Dianna

Absolutely nothing. I may sigh, or even make little moaning noises, but since it’s cyberspace, you’re safe from even those minor annoyances and rebukes.

Sighing and making little moaning noises aren’t always signs of displeasure…hehe…nor are such phenomena uniformly rebuking or annoying - far from it…;~)

/sorry; just couldn’t help myself

191 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:13:56pm

re: #189 ArchangelMichael

Am I receiving a radiological alarm? Inbound nuclear ordnance?

Galactica has seen worse…

192 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:14:28pm

re: #176 Killgore Trout

Maybe that did it…I’m feeling it now.. Acorn rage bubbling up…Yes…I can feel it now…wait…hold on…
/damn lost it.
//Don’t care

Take 2 acorns and call us in the morning.

193 SteveC  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:14:47pm

re: #182 Danny

Use the force, Trout!

Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh… everything’s perfectly all right now. We’re fine. We’re all fine here now, thank you. How are you?

We’re sending a squad up.

Uh, uh… negative, negative. We had a reactor leak here now. Give us a few minutes to lock it down. Large leak, very dangerous.

Who is this? What’s your operating number?

*Shoots Communication panel* Luke we’re gonna have company!

194 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:15:17pm

re: #189 ArchangelMichael

Am I receiving a radiological alarm? Inbound nuclear ordnance?

Nope, just inbound troll spew. No need for nukes, but I’ll warm up the particle cannons.

195 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:15:33pm

re: #190 Salamantis

Diana, I take back what I said earlier. I really, really, like your idea much more now.
:0

196 ryannon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:15:55pm

re: #189 ArchangelMichael

Am I receiving a radiological alarm? Inbound nuclear ordnance?

Is this to be an empathy test? Capillary dilation of the so-called blush response? Fluctuation of the pupil? Involuntary dilation of the iris?

197 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:16:16pm

re: #193 SteveC

Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh… everything’s perfectly all right now. We’re fine. We’re all fine here now, thank you. How are you?

We’re sending a squad up.

Uh, uh… negative, negative. We had a reactor leak here now. Give us a few minutes to lock it down. Large leak, very dangerous.

Who is this? What’s your operating number?

*Shoots Communication panel* Luke we’re gonna have company!

Stay on Target!

198 What, me worry?  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:16:57pm

re: #165 ArchangelMichael

Varies from state to state exactly how it works but I think in California you have to file a petition for emancipation of a minor which has to be OKed by a judge and requires a court battle (the basis for the 1984 film “Irreconcilable Differences”) if the parents wont sign it.

I think that’s all states.

The LEGAL line between minor and adult has to be drawn somewhere. Age 17 is still legally a minor. I’m pretty upset at children under 16 being tried as an adult, but I guess that’s another topic.

199 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:16:58pm

re: #196 ryannon

You’re walking in the desert and you see a turtle flipped onto it’s back…

200 SteveC  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:17:32pm

re: #191 LudwigVanQuixote

Galactica has seen worse…

What do you hear, Starbuck?

201 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:17:40pm

Dark_Falcon, so, you like math jokes, eh? Maybe I’ll try to pop a few more off before the day ends.

202 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:17:41pm

re: #196 ryannon

Is this to be an empathy test? Capillary dilation of the so-called blush response? Fluctuation of the pupil? Involuntary dilation of the iris?

We call it Voight-Kampff.

203 razorbacker  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:18:57pm

I won’t make it until the overnight open.

I’ll catch y’all in the morning.

204 ryannon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:19:05pm

re: #199 Fenway_Nation

You’re walking in the desert and you see a turtle flipped onto it’s back…

Let me tell you about my mother…

205 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:19:21pm
206 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:20:22pm

re: #204 ryannon

Let me tell you about my mother…

I think we already have a functioning VK like test here for trolls, socks, and those likely to exhibit Sudden Flounce Syndrome.

207 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:20:44pm

Here’s a math quiz for y’all:

X cubed plus (X+1) cubed plus (X+2) cubed = (X+3) cubed.

X is prime.

Find X.

208 SteveC  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:21:11pm

DailyCOS: Comments 37, Karma -49

YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG!

209 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:21:46pm

re: #208 SteveC

LOL

210 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:21:49pm

The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long. And you have burned so very, very brightly, Roy.

211 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:22:09pm

Not interested in letting a troll hijack the thread. Nope. Not gonna let it.

212 SteveC  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:22:11pm

re: #207 Salamantis

Here’s a math quiz for y’all:

X cubed plus (X+1) cubed plus (X+2) cubed = (X+3) cubed.

X is prime.

Find X.

After W; before Y!

/What do I win?

213 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:22:22pm

re: #207 Salamantis

Here’s a math quiz for y’all:

X cubed plus (X+1) cubed plus (X+2) cubed = (X+3) cubed.

X is prime.

Find X.

Big whoop, easy peasy. I found six of them.
/

214 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:22:31pm

re: #207 Salamantis

Here’s a math quiz for y’all:

X cubed plus (X+1) cubed plus (X+2) cubed = (X+3) cubed.

X is prime.

Find X.

Can I use Excel’s Goal Seek?

215 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:22:49pm

From the side bar of one of my previous posts…
John Lennon with Frank Zappa, Filmore 1971

Yoko Ono! Great googly moogley!

216 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:22:50pm

And reposting a comment that was deleted…

“What are these?”
“They are trajectory headings for multiple impact reentry vehicles!”
“What’s that?”
“I don’t know but it’s great!”

217 SteveC  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:23:09pm

re: #185 jaunte

Just like tee-ball.

re: #211 Charles

Not interested in letting a troll hijack the thread. Nope. Not gonna let it.

Strike THREE! Sidddown!

218 What, me worry?  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:23:16pm

re: #135 Dr. Shalit

marge -

That is a legal construction, NOT a reality for a headstrong teenager. Had I been able to make it on my own at about age 16, I would have NEVER gone home. I couldn’t, and I did, an early, lost revolution that failed and taught me lessons.

-S-

Sorry I missed this.

Legality is all the law cares about. You can’t go off on your own as a minor. I believe she’d have to be emancipated to be on her own. That’s why she was being held in foster care so someone still had watch over her until the investigation was done.

219 tradewind  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:23:29pm

There’s no justification for Spencer and Geller to make up stories of Islamic atrocities… there are plenty of real ones they could be talking about.

220 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:23:45pm

Florida?

Family Law?

Maybe it is time for a Schiavo-esque demand that the Florida Legislature, the Governor, the US Congress and the Supreme Court intervene! Time to call into Rush, Ingraham and Hannity!

221 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:23:46pm

re: #207 Salamantis

Here’s a math quiz for y’all:

X cubed plus (X+1) cubed plus (X+2) cubed = (X+3) cubed.

X is prime.

Find X.

Put it in a proper binomial equation or you’ll get nothing from me.

222 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:23:57pm

Now a logic quiz:

Prove that the fallacy of denying the antecedent is functionally equivalent to the fallacy of affirming the consequent.

223 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:24:11pm

re: #207 Salamantis

Find X <- there it is

224 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:24:20pm

Yoko Ono = Ron Paul

225 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:24:24pm

re: #212 SteveC

After W; before Y!

/What do I win?

If you didn’t have a funky heart, you’d win a SMACK!

226 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:25:07pm

re: #222 Salamantis

Now a logic quiz:

Prove that the fallacy of denying the antecedent is functionally equivalent to the fallacy of affirming the consequent.

Can’t I just accentuate the positive? ;)

227 What, me worry?  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:25:34pm

Bed time for bonzo. Nite kiddies.

228 ryannon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:25:38pm

re: #222 Salamantis

Now a logic quiz:

Prove that the fallacy of denying the antecedent is functionally equivalent to the fallacy of affirming the consequent.

Da head-bone is connected to da head-bone?

229 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:26:08pm

I’ve got it down to x^3 - 3x^2 - 14x = 18
Almost there!

230 SteveC  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:26:36pm

re: #225 Dark_Falcon

If you didn’t have a funky heart, you’d win a SMACK!

We need to agree on a safe word, after that, I’m game!

231 tradewind  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:26:48pm

re: #192 Spare O’Lake

/Mighty jokes from little acorns grow/.

232 ryannon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:26:59pm

pimf: neck-bone.

233 avspatti  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:27:12pm

Listen guys … the idea that this girl could be ‘honor-killed’ is not at all farfetched. Have we not read about this kind of thing happening before? Would you want to be the judge who sent her back only to learn she had been murdered by her own family? It’s not worth the chance imo. She is nearly 18, I believe. Let her stay where she is until that birthday, and then, she will have more choices, more opportunities. Even if her parents do not do the evil deed, other relatives could in order to save the family ‘honor’. Uncles, brothers, cousins, etc. Not at all unusual among some groups.

It is not worth the chance.

234 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:27:30pm

Curse you!
I should’ve remembered my engineering training. If you’ve gotta guess, go with 1 or 0.
The answer is 1.

235 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:27:50pm

re: #233 avspatti

Listen guys … the idea that this girl could be ‘honor-killed’ is not at all farfetched. Have we not read about this kind of thing happening before? Would you want to be the judge who sent her back only to learn she had been murdered by her own family? It’s not worth the chance imo. She is nearly 18, I believe. Let her stay where she is until that birthday, and then, she will have more choices, more opportunities. Even if her parents do not do the evil deed, other relatives could in order to save the family ‘honor’. Uncles, brothers, cousins, etc. Not at all unusual among some groups.

It is not worth the chance.

Not surprised that you’d be in favor of calling the parents murderers with no evidence at all.

236 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:28:16pm

You of course have to rememer that I am a mathematical, logical and empirical science illiterate; just ask LVQ!

btw: X = 3

27 + 64 + 125 = 216

237 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:29:15pm

re: #234 bosforus

Curse you!
I should’ve remembered my engineering training. If you’ve gotta guess, go with 1 or 0.
The answer is 1.

Nope.

238 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:29:32pm

Dammit, late to the party. So Obama is supporting wiretaps?

239 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:29:39pm

Arggh, I had some signs wrong when I was multiplying out the polynomials. Oh well.

240 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:29:57pm

I see we still have some anti-Islam bigots hanging around at LGF.

241 SteveC  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:30:22pm

re: #238 cliffster

Dammit, late to the party. So Obama is supporting wiretaps?

Be quiet, he could be listening!

You wanna be the next FOX NEWS ALERT?

242 swamprat  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:30:32pm

re: #233 avspatti

re: #4 swamprat

missed by 33

243 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:30:51pm

re: #233 avspatti

Listen guys … the idea that this girl could be ‘honor-killed’ is not at all farfetched. Have we not read about this kind of thing happening before? Would you want to be the judge who sent her back only to learn she had been murdered by her own family? It’s not worth the chance imo. She is nearly 18, I believe. Let her stay where she is until that birthday, and then, she will have more choices, more opportunities. Even if her parents do not do the evil deed, other relatives could in order to save the family ‘honor’. Uncles, brothers, cousins, etc. Not at all unusual among some groups.

It is not worth the chance.

1. Do you have any reason to believe this family is a threat to their daughter besides their Islam?

2. If merely being Muslim makes people a threat to their own children, why should we stop with this kid?

244 Randall Gross  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:31:06pm

re: #233 avspatti

Hindus do honor killings as well, so are you in favor of taking Hindu children away from their families if they change religions? (or decide they like someone outside their caste?)

245 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:31:13pm

re: #233 avspatti

Good point. I have a friend - she has a boyfriend. I remember reading in the papers about a girl who got MURDERED BY HER BOYFRIEND. I really think my friend should be on her toes…

246 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:31:15pm

re: #242 swamprat

re: #4 swamprat

missed by 33

Respectable, nonetheless.

247 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:31:29pm

I perhaps revealed the answer to the math problem too soon; I will retain the logic problem proof until another day.

/and you won’t find it by googling it, because it’s original with me

248 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:31:54pm

By the way, swamprat, you beat me. Your call of comment 200 for first flounce was closer than my call of number 177.

249 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:32:41pm

re: #224 Killgore Trout

Yoko Ono = Ron Paul

I’m not quite sure who should be insulted by that one!

250 SteveC  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:32:42pm

re: #242 swamprat

re: #4 swamprat

missed by 33

Nice shot, you’re on the green. Ought to be able to birdie it.

251 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:32:55pm

re: #245 cliffster

Good point. I have a friend - she has a boyfriend. I remember reading in the papers about a girl who got MURDERED BY HER BOYFRIEND. I really think my friend should be on her toes…

I think you forgot your sarc tag…

252 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:33:03pm

re: #233 avspatti

Did you read the news report? It says it’s farfetched.

253 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:33:10pm

The FL endtimers look like a much more dangerous group than your average Muslims.. I’d rather have my kid convert to Islam than to that kind ol Christian cult any day.

254 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:33:16pm

re: #245 cliffster

Good point. I have a friend - she has a boyfriend. I remember reading in the papers about a girl who got MURDERED BY HER BOYFRIEND. I really think my friend should be on her toes…

Charles, I think he just forgot his /sarc tag.

255 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:33:40pm

re: #251 Salamantis

I think you forgot your sarc tag…

re: #254 Dark_Falcon

Charles, I think he just forgot his /sarc tag.

GMTA

256 swamprat  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:34:29pm

re: #173 swamprat
re;168 DailyCOS

I don’t think you are long for this world, sock.

Perfect.

257 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:34:29pm

re: #251 Salamantis

I think you forgot your sarc tag…

sowwy - tee hee!
///

258 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:34:58pm

re: #251 Salamantis

I think you forgot your sarc tag…

Actually, I think the sarcasm on that one froze my screen. But I will not dispute over taste.

259 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:36:19pm

re: #253 Conservative Moonbat

The FL endtimers look like a much more dangerous group than your average Muslims.. I’d rather have my kid convert to Islam than to that kind ol Christian cult any day.

It depends; if they converted to the Wahhab-Qutb Al Qaedan variant, that would be cause for major lamentation and teeth-gnashing - and the changing of one’s door locks.

260 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:36:27pm

Allegations of hypothetical “honor killings” and other “known unknowns” aside, had this had been a 17 year old (underage remember) Christian girl that had been lured away by any other “self-made” religious cleric online we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Odds are they would have arrested the “cleric.”

261 Seax  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:36:42pm

Re 58 Shamuta
This is pretty much what most hard core Christian churches believe.
I had a quick look at their web site - I don’t think they are using
Israel as their personal Doomsday machine but rather more
like the ‘canary in the mine’ idea sort of like ‘when it starts hitting the fan big time in Israel it’s going to start here as well’.Their site pretty standard - much is like Chuck Missler’s ‘Koinonia House’ end times stuff.
However in saying that - if they are loonies time will surely tell.
As for the runaway muslim girl - I have no idea of the case - any idea of what ‘Social Services’ type of people have said?

262 Teh Flowah  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:36:45pm

re: #207 Salamantis

Here’s a math quiz for y’all:

X cubed plus (X+1) cubed plus (X+2) cubed = (X+3) cubed.

X is prime.

Find X.

x=3?

Why do you need to know this anyway?

263 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:36:55pm

re: #245 cliffster

Shit! I used to be somebody’s boyfriend. Good thing she dumped me, it would have only been a matter of time before the worst happened.

I’m not capable of that sort of crime, but why take the chance?
/

264 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:37:22pm

Here’s a fun one for ya, Salamantis (and anyone else):
What number is equal to one divided by (itself minus one).

265 swamprat  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:37:28pm

re: #260 Gus 802

Nice catch.

266 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:37:39pm

How many people attended last weekend’s rally at the Capitol?

The answer should not be open to any political spin at all.

Estimating crowd size AT THE CAPITOL should be scientific and publicly disclosed information.

267 Randall Gross  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:37:42pm

TIme for me to get some sleeps, see you all on the morrow.

/if a cultural anthropologist found this tape in a time capsule 2000 yrs from now, what would they say about it?

268 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:38:40pm

re: #262 Teh Flowah

x=3?

Why do you need to know this anyway?

I already spilled the beans in post # 236.

/but nice work, anyway, on my random brainteaser

269 Racer X  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:38:50pm

In many parts of the world Islam is still run much like a radical cult.

I am very wary of all things Islam.

270 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:38:52pm

re: #260 Gus 802

Allegations of hypothetical “honor killings” and other “known unknowns” aside, had this had been a 17 year old (underage remember) Christian girl that had been lured away by any other “self-made” religious cleric online we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Odds are they would have arrested the “cleric.”

I don’t know about that. It gets very strange when kids are 16+. And law enforcement, if the kid starts shouting about parental abuse, must take it seriously.

Everything gets strange. It’s why we get horror stories about kids getting killed by their parents, regardless of religion; or stories as incredible as that of Jaycee Duggan (sp?)

271 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:39:07pm

re: #267 Thanos

“Why?”

272 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:39:11pm

re: #266 experiencedtraveller

How many people attended last weekend’s rally at the Capitol?

The answer should not be open to any political spin at all.

Estimating crowd size AT THE CAPITOL should be scientific and publicly disclosed information.

Are you suggesting an organization for that sole purpose? Me, I tend to go with what the cops say.

273 SteveC  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:39:14pm

re: #267 Thanos

TIme for me to get some sleeps, see you all on the morrow.


[Video]/if a cultural anthropologist found this tape in a time capsule 2000 yrs from now, what would they say about it?

I wonder… I wha-wha-wha-wha-wonder…

274 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:39:17pm

re: #261 Seax

So Israel is not a “Doomsday Machine”, so much as it is a “Doomsday Countdown Clock”?

Got it.

275 lurking faith  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:39:21pm

Have we hit Flounceopalooza numbers yet?

I am reminded of the time when a neighbor kid ran up to my brother, threw a handful of snow in his face, and ran. And my brother heaved a sigh, chased the kid down, and washed his face with snow. Not out of anger, but as a duty that went with his assigned role in the neighborhood.

Some of these flouncers are mentally still just dumb kids throwing snow so they can brag about it, knowing they’re safe from any real harm.

276 Racer X  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:39:55pm

Much the same way I am very wary of Scientologists.

277 wee fury  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:40:02pm

re: #267 Thanos

TIme for me to get some sleeps, see you all on the morrow.


[Video]

/if a cultural anthropologist found this tape in a time capsule 2000 yrs from now, what would they say about it?

They would say “it is a religious rite.”

278 ryannon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:40:20pm

re: #266 experiencedtraveller

How many people attended last weekend’s rally at the Capitol?

The answer should not be open to any political spin at all.

Estimating crowd size AT THE CAPITOL should be scientific and publicly disclosed information.


X cubed plus (X+1) cubed plus (X+2) cubed = (X+3) cubed.

X is prime.

Find X.

279 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:40:36pm

re: #264 bosforus

Do you admit of 0 (zero) as a number? I ask, not because I’m even vaguely qualified to answer the question, but for clarity.

280 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:40:37pm

re: #263 Slumbering Behemoth

Shit! I used to be somebody’s boyfriend. Good thing she dumped me, it would have only been a matter of time before the worst happened.

I’m not capable of that sort of crime, but why take the chance?
/

Well, you never know when you’re going to be suddenly taken over by Islam and start honor killing, not to mention eating away at the freedom and liberties of unexepecting everyday Americans..

/ sarc tag NOT overlooked this time

281 Teh Flowah  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:40:59pm

re: #268 Salamantis

I already spilled the beans in post # 236.

/but nice work, anyway, on my random brainteaser

Hah, I took a few minutes to do something I haven’t done since middle school. Expanding polynomials and factoring.

STILL GOT IT.

/is in law school

282 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:41:30pm

re: #279 Dianna

Do you admit of 0 (zero) as a number? I ask, not because I’m even vaguely qualified to answer the question, but for clarity.

Your end result would be 0 = -1. Sorry.

283 SteveC  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:42:03pm

re: #274 Slumbering Behemoth

So Israel is not a “Doomsday Machine”, so much as it is a “Doomsday Countdown Clock”?

Got it.

Doomsday Machine?

284 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:42:25pm

re: #264 bosforus

Here’s a fun one for ya, Salamantis (and anyone else):
What number is equal to one divided by (itself minus one).

Phi (1.618…)

It is the solution to the equation:

X squared plus X minus 1 = 1

285 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:43:02pm

re: #166 Charles

The really vile thing about this is the complete depersonalization of Bary’s parents by the Spencer-Geller gang. There’s absolutely nothing the parents could say or do that would convince the anti-Islam ravers that they’re not going to hurt their daughter.

Just for one second, put yourself in the place of a parent who’s being accused of wanting to murder their own daughter — unjustly. Imagine how much suffering is being inflicted on them by this ordeal and the sheer hatred of the anti-Islam nutbags, as they’re dragged into the public spotlight and portrayed as inhuman murdering beasts, when they have done nothing to warrant it. It’s just beyond disgusting.

I had to step away, but you said better than I could have hoped to in what I was thinking while I was getting some air.

I’ve seen what happens in real abuse cases, and this story reeked from the start. A child brave enough to escape her tormentors doesn’t run off to a church half the country away.

I’ve also seen what happens when the charges of abuse are leveled falsely. It’s difficult enough for a parent to go through. I cannot imagine what it’s like to additionally be placed in the spotlight by agenda driven fanatics, and the people who injected themselves into this for reasons of ideology and ego should be ashamed. However that type of personality lacks that quality altogether, so it’s futile to expect shame would be forthcoming.

286 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:43:26pm

re: #270 Dianna

I don’t know about that. It gets very strange when kids are 16+. And law enforcement, if the kid starts shouting about parental abuse, must take it seriously.

Everything gets strange. It’s why we get horror stories about kids getting killed by their parents, regardless of religion; or stories as incredible as that of Jaycee Duggan (sp?)

Looking at the article this is based on one phrase that the girl alleged her father said. The court ruling will have to stand so I can comment on that. There was noting said about physical abuse in this case. All I’m seeing is that she was lured into going to Florida by an adult male. Her parents wanted her back.

287 swamprat  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:43:51pm

re: #276 Racer X

Your personal predudices are extremely interesting.
How do you feel about Methodists and Brussels sprouts?

288 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:43:57pm

re: #284 Salamantis

Indeed. It’s a great number. The Golden Ratio is a good read, too, while we’re on the subject.

289 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:44:02pm

re: #286 Gus 802

Looking at the article this is based on one phrase that the girl alleged her father said. The court ruling will have to stand so I can cannot comment on that. There was noting said about physical abuse in this case. All I’m seeing is that she was lured into going to Florida by an adult male. Her parents wanted her back.

PIMF

290 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:44:30pm

re: #282 bosforus

Your end result would be 0 = -1. Sorry.

And any second now, I’m going to remember what an integer is.

I haven’t done actual math (as opposed to accounting) in a while. And I’m tired.

291 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:45:05pm

re: #283 SteveC

292 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:45:27pm

re: #200 SteveC

What do you hear, Starbuck?

Nothing but the rain…

293 tradewind  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:45:51pm

re: #287 swamprat

It’s only prudent to be wary around Scientology and its practitioners.
Don’t take my word for it.. ask Chef.

294 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:46:02pm
295 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:46:06pm

re: #166 Charles

That’s a good post.

296 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:46:20pm

re: #285 Sharmuta

I had to step away, but you said better than I could have hoped to in what I was thinking while I was getting some air.

I’ve seen what happens in real abuse cases, and this story reeked from the start. A child brave enough to escape her tormentors doesn’t run off to a church half the country away.

I’ve also seen what happens when the charges of abuse are leveled falsely. It’s difficult enough for a parent to go through. I cannot imagine what it’s like to additionally be placed in the spotlight by agenda driven fanatics, and the people who injected themselves into this for reasons of ideology and ego should be ashamed. However that type of personality lacks that quality altogether, so it’s futile to expect shame would be forthcoming.

There is really only one question for me:
What is in the best interests of the child?
All the rest is political crap.

297 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:47:20pm

re: #267 Thanos

TIme for me to get some sleeps, see you all on the morrow.


[Video]/if a cultural anthropologist found this tape in a time capsule 2000 yrs from now, what would they say about it?

That sometimes, sometimes, the ’80s were worse?

298 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:47:27pm

re: #294 MikeySDCA

One minus one equals zero. It is impossible to divide by zero.

1.618…- 1 = .618…

It is possible to divide by .618…

299 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:47:40pm

re: #296 Spare O’Lake

There is really only one question for me:
What is in the best interests of the child?
All the rest is political crap.

Quite Concur.

300 erraticsphinx  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:47:43pm

She couldn’t have made up all these stories on her own…shouldn’t the church here be investigated?

Their website is incredibly creepy.

301 swamprat  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:48:51pm

re: #293 tradewind

That comment upset me.
Now I will have to get more auditing. Do realize how expensive that is?

302 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:48:54pm
303 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:49:31pm

re: #296 Spare O’Lake

There is really only one question for me:
What is in the best interests of the child?
All the rest is political crap.

And that question is not one for Robert Spencer and the Shrieking Harpy to answer.

304 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:49:31pm

re: #272 SanFranciscoZionist

Are you suggesting an organization for that sole purpose? Me, I tend to go with what the cops say.

Have the cops said anything? Please advise as I may be behind the curve :)

And I am ABSOLUTELY suggesting we appoint some government clerk, currently employed, to be the Official Capitol Crowd Estimator, and I expect them to perform this function honorably under modest compensation increase.

And I expect them to begin immediately.

How can mature democracy be bickering over such nonsense as crowd size?

305 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:49:34pm

On my GRE (Graduate Records Exam), I scored a 77o verbal and a 780 math (out of a possible 800)

/bragging mode now off

306 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:50:14pm

re: #296 Spare O’Lake

There is really only one question for me:
What is in the best interests of the child?
All the rest is political crap.

It’s certainly not in her best interests to have any contact with a adult man who lured her from her home by taking advantage of her and allowed her to be used by anti-muslim bigots.

307 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:51:31pm

re: #302 MikeySDCA

But you said one minus itself.

Nope. The problem was proposed by bosporus:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Here’s a fun one for ya, Salamantis (and anyone else):
What number is equal to one divided by (itself minus one).

308 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:52:08pm

re: #287 swamprat

Your personal predudices are extremely interesting.
How do you feel about Methodists and Brussels sprouts?

Me, I’m down with both. In their place. I have never roasted a Methodist, nor would I allow a Brussels sprout to speak at my interfaith picnic.

OK, maybe I would let the Brussels sprout speak. I’m open-minded.

309 tradewind  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:52:32pm

re: #305 Salamantis

/bragging mode now off


/Too late/
:)

310 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:52:56pm

re: #286 Gus 802

Looking at the article this is based on one phrase that the girl alleged her father said. The court ruling will have to stand so I can comment on that. There was noting said about physical abuse in this case. All I’m seeing is that she was lured into going to Florida by an adult male. Her parents wanted her back.

I repeat: the second a kid says one word against her parents, law enforcement has to treat the accusation seriously. There are very good reasons for this; that doesn’t mean she had to allege physical abuse, just a fear of harm.

Ignore the hysteria. The court did what it is supposed to. It seems really weird because of the outside actors. I don’t know - and (presently) no one else does, how far the young girl drew others into her dramatizations. I just suggest we wait and be very, very calm before we start hurling accusations, simply because the church involved is “fundamentalist.” The people involved may very well be at fault, but, equally, they may simply be naive, and all-too-ready to believe what they were told.

311 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:53:01pm

re: #296 Spare O’Lake

There is really only one question for me:
What is in the best interests of the child?
All the rest is political crap.

Who determines what is in the best interest of the child in these matters: the courts and public agencies. It is called law and has it is a process operated by the government. Citizens are involved in the decision process as witnesses or expert witnesses. The best interests of a child is not determined by the “court of public opinion” and more specifically it is not determined by Spencer and Geller.

312 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:53:36pm

re: #285 Sharmuta

The fact that an older man used the internet to lure a minor girl away from her family, and far away from her home state, should be raising a lot more eyebrows and a lot more questions than it currently is.

This whole situation stinks worse than Kilgore’s sockpuppet.

313 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:53:52pm

re: #304 experiencedtraveller

Have the cops said anything? Please advise as I may be behind the curve :)

And I am ABSOLUTELY suggesting we appoint some government clerk, currently employed, to be the Official Capitol Crowd Estimator, and I expect them to perform this function honorably under modest compensation increase.

And I expect them to begin immediately.

How can mature democracy be bickering over such nonsense as crowd size?

What will we bicker about if not crowd size? And why would anyone listen to a government appointee?

314 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:54:05pm

re: #310 Dianna

Well, I know if I was in law enforcement I would keep an eye on this man.

315 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:54:30pm

re: #294 MikeySDCA

One minus one equals zero. It is impossible to divide by zero.

Yes, but one divided by one equals one.

316 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:54:49pm

re: #302 MikeySDCA

But you said one minus itself.

I think the parentheses may have thrown you off.
“What number is equal to one divided by (itself minus one).”
As in:
x = 1/(x-1)
The “itself” is the “x”.

317 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:54:52pm

re: #305 Salamantis

On my GRE (Graduate Records Exam), I scored a 77o verbal and a 780 math (out of a possible 800)

/bragging mode now off

I scored a 780 verbal, and I will NOT tell you the math score.

/lopsided bragging mode now off

318 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:55:01pm

re: #309 tradewind

/Too late/
:)

I’m well into my 2nd 22 oz Icehouse beer; lemme blame it on that…;~)

319 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:55:10pm

re: #312 Slumbering Behemoth

This whole situation stinks worse than the homemade pruno from Kilgore’s sockpuppet.

Even stinkier…

320 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:55:20pm
321 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:55:32pm

re: #287 swamprat

Your personal predudices are extremely interesting.
How do you feel about Methodists and Brussels sprouts?

I hate Brussels sprouts!

322 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:55:40pm

re: #287 swamprat

How do you feel about Methodists and Brussels sprouts?

I can’t speak for RX, but I think these are two components that should not be brought together outside of strictly controlled environments.

We are talking Weapons Grade Gas, here.
///

323 jvic  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:56:35pm

re: #226 Dark_Falcon

re: #222 Salamantis

Now a logic quiz:

Prove that the fallacy of denying the antecedent is functionally equivalent to the fallacy of affirming the consequent.

Can’t I just accentuate the positive? ;)

You mean the contrapositive, no?

324 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:56:46pm
325 SteveC  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:56:53pm

re: #318 Salamantis

I’m well into my 2nd 22 oz Icehouse beer; lemme blame it on that…;~)

Too drunk to drive a starship!

326 swamprat  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:57:47pm

re: #308 SanFranciscoZionist

Very tired.
Please insert an appropriate witty rejoinder here.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Thanks. I’m hitting the shower.

327 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:57:50pm

re: #300 erraticsphinx

She couldn’t have made up all these stories on her own…shouldn’t the church here be investigated?

Their website is incredibly creepy.

Why couldn’t she have made these stories up on her own? I don’t get that.

328 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:57:51pm

re: #303 ArchangelMichael

And that question is not one for Robert Spencer and the Shrieking Harpy to answer.

True. Nor for us.
I do wonder though, notwithstanding the report exonerating the parents, whether it would be wise to forcibly return the child to the custody of her parents. My concern is that if she hates her parents and does not want to live with them, then she may well run away from home or hurt herself. Even if she has been brainwashed by a religious cult, wouldn’t it be safer to keep her in a neutral location while she is deprogrammed?
I honestly cannot see how forcing her to live under her parents’ control would be in her best interests at this time.

329 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:57:53pm

re: #310 Dianna

And to be equal I don’t want to be guilty of the same casting of guilt as I just criticized. That being “the court of public opinion.” Just noting some suspicions and illustrating a wider sociological observation.

330 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:58:03pm

re: #310 Dianna

I repeat: the second a kid says one word against her parents, law enforcement has to treat the accusation seriously. There are very good reasons for this; that doesn’t mean she had to allege physical abuse, just a fear of harm.

Ignore the hysteria. The court did what it is supposed to. It seems really weird because of the outside actors. I don’t know - and (presently) no one else does, how far the young girl drew others into her dramatizations. I just suggest we wait and be very, very calm before we start hurling accusations, simply because the church involved is “fundamentalist.” The people involved may very well be at fault, but, equally, they may simply be naive, and all-too-ready to believe what they were told.

A kid in a situation like this, brave enough to get away from the abusive situation, does not run away to a fundie church thousands of miles away. They would seek something much more secure and familiar, such as a trust friend’s family or a teacher. In fact- a teacher DID offer her sanctuary at their home… from her brother’s drinking party. She ran to a church in Florida instead. Doesn’t add up for me.

I’m curious as to why you’re being so defensive concerning criticisms of this church. I thought you were a skeptic or agnostic of some kind.

331 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:58:09pm

re: #323 jvic

You mean the contrapositive, no?

SMACK!

332 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:58:34pm

re: #320 MikeySDCA

Standard mathematical notation would interpret (itself minus one) as one minus one equals zero.

Hence the parentheses, “(itself minus one)” is its own quantity. The “x” was the subject of my question, therefore “itself” refers to “x” and not one.

333 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:58:36pm

re: #314 Gus 802

Well, I know if I was in law enforcement I would keep an eye on this man.

Interstate recruitment of minor females… yeah- I’d watch him too.

334 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:59:28pm

re: #320 MikeySDCA

Standard mathematical notation would interpret (itself minus one) as one minus one equals zero.

Yeah; he should have expressed it as:

What number, divided by itself minus 1, equals 1?

But I knew what he meant; number theory is a pet plaything of mine, so I love the various and sundry mathematical constants and their properties.

335 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:59:42pm

How long before the usual suspects start screaming that this post is proof that I’m “anti-Christian?”

336 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:59:44pm

re: #333 Sharmuta

Interstate recruitment of minor females… yeah- I’d watch him too.

Big time. Did she contact him by email or chat room or the other way around?

337 Racer X  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:59:46pm

re: #321 Dianna

I hate Brussels sprouts!

You have to cook them properly - overcooked and they stink! Slightly undercooked they are pretty good.

338 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 9:59:55pm

re: #306 Sharmuta

It’s certainly not in her best interests to have any contact with a adult man who lured her from her home by taking advantage of her and allowed her to be used by anti-muslim bigots.

Funny - I’m seeing an assumption in that, too.

Slow down.

339 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:00:04pm

re: #310 Dianna

Nothing like an innocent child finding him/herself in the middle of a giant political poopfest

340 erraticsphinx  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:00:20pm

At the front page of the Orlando Sentinel website is an article saying that the Lorenzes have “reorganized” their church with the help of lawyers after a “schism”, but they don’t say why.

At the end, the head pastor guy who helped Ms. Bary says “I hesitate to say anything”.

Something smells very fishy with this church.

341 avspatti  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:00:53pm

re: #243 SanFranciscoZionist

1. Do you have any reason to believe this family is a threat to their daughter besides their Islam?

2. If merely being Muslim makes people a threat to their own children, why should we stop with this kid?

I don’t know that the family is a threat, but I do believe it is a possibility. Yes, because they are Muslim since rejecting Islam is punishable by death. You don’t see that happening in Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, do you? The religion itself teaches that leaving Islam is deserving of death. All religions are NOT equally benign regardless of what we may wish.

342 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:01:26pm
343 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:01:39pm

re: #335 Charles

How long before the usual suspects start screaming that this post is proof that I’m “anti-Christian?”

30 minutes ago. ;)

344 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:01:40pm

re: #328 Spare O’Lake

True. Nor for us.
I do wonder though, notwithstanding the report exonerating the parents, whether it would be wise to forcibly return the child to the custody of her parents. My concern is that if she hates her parents and does not want to live with them, then she may well run away from home or hurt herself. Even if she has been brainwashed by a religious cult, wouldn’t it be safer to keep her in a neutral location while she is deprogrammed?
I honestly cannot see how forcing her to live under her parents’ control would be in her best interests at this time.

But that would not be the fault of her parents; the difficulty would reside within her.

345 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:01:52pm

re: #334 Salamantis

Yeah; he should have expressed it as:

What number, divided by itself minus 1, equals 1?

But I knew what he meant; number theory is a pet plaything of mine, so I love the various and sundry mathematical constants and their properties.

This sentence structure leaves open the possible interpretation of (x/x) -1
Either way, it’s a tough one to word without actually writing the equation, which is what I was trying to avoid.

346 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:01:58pm

re: #335 Charles

I’m sure if you search the web, there are plenty already. I haven’t looked, but the dimwitted are just that predictable.

347 swamprat  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:02:02pm

re: #335 Charles

What’s the spread?
I’ll say 2 before you hit 500.

348 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:02:33pm

re: #314 Gus 802

Well, I know if I was in law enforcement I would keep an eye on this man.

No, duh.

But we have no proof. I see no reason to subject someone who may be entirely innocent of anything but believing too easily what he was told to precisely what various anti-Islamists were subjecting her parents to.

Think before you start leaping. Let’s have some hard facts, just as Charles waited for some hard facts before commenting on this case.

349 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:02:44pm

re: #335 Charles

How long before the usual suspects start screaming that this post is proof that I’m “anti-Christian?”

I was thinking the accusations of “Liberal Jihadi Apologist” would probably come first.

350 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:03:00pm

re: #339 cliffster

Nothing like an innocent child finding him/herself in the middle of a giant political poopfest

A 17 year old cheerleading drama queen, you mean?

351 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:03:01pm

I seem to have missed a math quiz… Oh well…

An interesting question might be…

for those who like probability…

Suppose you have a culture that has children until they have a boy. Then they stop. So for example, A couple might have three daughters first and then stop when they have a boy and make no more babies.

What will the ration of girls to boys be in this culture?

352 jvic  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:03:10pm

re: #331 Dark_Falcon

SMACK!

Huh? Wa wazzat for?

353 tradewind  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:03:34pm

re: #318 Salamantis

My SAT scores were the subject of inquiries by two colleges that later accepted me because my verbal was 780 and my math was 488. It was assumed that either I cheated on the verbal section, or the math was incorrectly reported.
Neither was the case. I ‘m missing the gene for anything involving decimal points or x factors. So no worries, I’m just jealous.

354 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:03:39pm

re: #335 Charles

How long before the usual suspects start screaming that this post is proof that I’m “anti-Christian?”

No bet.

355 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:04:14pm

And I’ll tell you what Sal, answer this and I won’t consider you quite as mathematically deficient… :)

356 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:04:32pm

re: #341 avspatti

Using that line of reasoning, I should have my driver’s liscence taken suspended because I have booze and a set of car keys in Casa de Fenway and might get behind the wheel…

357 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:05:26pm

re: #333 Sharmuta

Interstate recruitment of minor females… yeah- I’d watch him too.

Would you forcibly return her to parental control at this time, leave her where she is, or put her in a foster home?

358 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:05:43pm

re: #352 jvic

Huh? Wa wazzat for?

I was just kidding.

359 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:05:56pm

re: #351 LudwigVanQuixote

What will the ration of girls to boys be in this culture?

FUCKING AWESOME!! That’s what.
/says a “boy”

360 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:05:58pm

Oops pimf…

for those who like probability…

Suppose you have a culture that has children until they have a boy. Then they stop. So for example, A couple might have three daughters first and then stop when they have a boy and make no more babies.

What will the ratio of girls to boys be in this culture?

361 erraticsphinx  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:06:03pm

re: #327 Dianna

She could have…You could be right.

But I dunno, the whole “feel” of this case has been one of wild accusations from this girl, with very little to none evidence of wrongdoing from the parents.

If she was so abused and rejected for her faith at home…why lie about it and make shit up? She could have told them the truth.

The fact that she hit all the right notes that you would expect in an honor killing case and tugged on all the right heartstrings has a very “coached” look about it.

I could just be grasping at straws, but that’s my opinion.

362 Purre  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:06:11pm

I don’t know specifics about the case, so I won’t comment on this one. I do have things to say about domestic violence in general though. That’s not Moslem issue, as it happens in every culture as far as I am aware - honour killings are just one specific form of it.

If situation at home develops such that there is real or imagined threat, I prefer to have the family separate for time being and social services to assist in solving the situation preferably in such manner that the relations are mended. Of course if the trust cannot be mended, then it’s best to let them stay separate. These cases are always problematic in that unless it has already progressed to physical violence, the gathering of evidence is difficult at best. Threats themselves don’t leave traces (unless one tapes discussions and hardly anyone gets that idea when put into such situation), so the cases are anything but easy to solve.

So safe houses, foster care, lots of mediation and so forth, those are the tools as far as I see it. It’s best to try to mend the families, but if something is too broken, it’s sometimes best to let them be separate. There are too many cases where child/spouse(yes, men can be victims too) returned home only to be victim of even greater violence.

363 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:06:12pm

re: #350 Dianna

A 17 year old cheerleading drama queen, you mean?

“17 year old” being the operative words.

364 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:06:24pm

Hey Night Lizards!

What’s going on tonite?

365 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:06:31pm

re: #350 Dianna

Now whose making assumptions?

Let me get this straight- you’re a skeptic wanting to hold off critiquing this church leader who recruits minor females across state lines, but we can impugn this girl?

366 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:07:09pm
367 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:07:16pm

re: #357 Spare O’Lake

Would you forcibly return her to parental control at this time, leave her where she is, or put her in a foster home?

17 years old might be the age of majority in this situation. Each State has different rules about it. (or has this already been discussed?)

368 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:07:35pm

re: #344 Salamantis

But that would not be the fault of her parents; the difficulty would reside within her.

Yes, but if she would be a danger to herself if forcibly returned, then what? It’s not so simple.

369 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:07:36pm

re: #313 SanFranciscoZionist

What will we bicker about if not crowd size? And why would anyone listen to a government appointee?

Yes. Federal Crowd Estimator would be an amazing position. I am sure we could find someone dedicated enough to perform this function admirably and economically.

After all who wants to be exposed on a non partisan issue of crowd estimation?

370 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:07:48pm

re: #359 Slumbering Behemoth

FUCKING AWESOME!! That’s what.
/says a “boy”

Hint:

What is the sum of 1/2^n for n=1 to n= infinity…

371 lurking faith  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:07:49pm

re: #284 Salamantis

Phi (1.618…)

It is the solution to the equation:

X squared plus X minus 1 = 1


I got as far as X squared minus X minus 1 = zero.
Then I said, X isn’t an integer and my algebra days are lost in the mists of time.

Plus, Mr. faith has prevented me from retrieving my old algebra text from the shelf. He says I need my sleep, and he’s right.
G’night, all.

372 tradewind  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:08:41pm

re: #360 LudwigVanQuixote

Why don’t these sex preference-based procreators skip all that and just go straight to the sperm spinners after the first one…/

373 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:09:44pm

re: #357 Spare O’Lake

Would you forcibly return her to parental control at this time, leave her where she is, or put her in a foster home?

I think Ms. Bary is a victim of an internet predator. Her and her family have issues like all families have, and the state of Ohio should continue to monitor the situation and see to it the family is getting counseling. She belongs with her family now that they’ve been cleared of these charges.

374 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:09:48pm

Here’s another fanatic who’s trying to capitalize on Rifqa Bary, Pastor Steve Hill. You won’t believe this one.

375 Racer X  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:09:48pm

I just cannot believe a blog once full of wonderful cycling stories has turned into a hangout for a bunch of math nerds!

FLOUNCE!

376 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:09:50pm

re: #330 Sharmuta

A kid in a situation like this, brave enough to get away from the abusive situation, does not run away to a fundie church thousands of miles away. They would seek something much more secure and familiar, such as a trust friend’s family or a teacher. In fact- a teacher DID offer her sanctuary at their home… from her brother’s drinking party. She ran to a church in Florida instead. Doesn’t add up for me.

I’m curious as to why you’re being so defensive concerning criticisms of this church. I thought you were a skeptic or agnostic of some kind.

Back up.

We’re not talking about a 12 year old. We’re talking a near-adult who was a cheerleader, the top of the social food chain in high school.

We’re not entirely sure of this young woman’s character. Think of the various drama-queens you knew; think of the kids whose imaginations - for whatever reasons - run away with them. Think of the wild romanticism of the adolescent, and their vision of heroism.

I’m not being “defensive” of criticisms of the church.

I’m being critical of jumping from “ISLAMIC HONOR KILLING BARELY AVERTED BY GIRL’S BRAVE FLIGHT!” to “EEEVIL CHRISTO-CULT LURES INNOCENT GIRL FROM HER FAMILY HOME!”

There will be a report and an assessment. I would like people to wait.

377 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:10:17pm

re: #335 Charles

How long before the usual suspects start screaming that this post is proof that I’m “anti-Christian?”

The same principles and law would apply regardless of where she ran off to. She could have run off to the Atheist Institute of Science. It just so happens that she went to something called the “Global Revolution Church.”

No doubt they will: they’re always quick to pull the religion card.

378 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:11:10pm

re: #356 Fenway_Nation

This week, on “

Fenway and The Behemoth

“…

… a hard lesson is learned about drunk driving when The Behemoth passes out in Fenway’s car after breaking his house key off in the ignition.

379 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:11:22pm

re: #372 tradewind

Why don’t these sex preference-based procreators skip all that and just go straight to the sperm spinners after the first one…/

Because then I wouldn’t get to make this math problem… Actually it is a problem Fermi used on the mathematical physics section of the qualifying exams at U Chicago. It is one of those ones where if you just see the answer, it is utterly obvious, with no tricky calculations involved. Or you can go the pissy calculation route and then see why the answer was obvious in hindsight.

380 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:11:36pm
381 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:12:13pm

re: #374 Charles

Here’s another fanatic who’s trying to capitalize on Rifqa Bary, Pastor Steve Hill. You won’t believe this one.


[Video]

Without even watching that, the name sets off my Douchebag alarm. Has he been featured in an LGF post before? The name sounds very familiar.

382 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:12:47pm

And another fanatic trying to hitch a ride on this bigoted bandwagon, Jamal Jivanjee, who posted this at Free Republic: PLEASE PRAY FOR MY INTERVIEW ON FOXNEWS TOMORROW MORNING (Friday August 28)

Each time we met with her, I left a changed person. This young girl not only lived out the kingdom of God in word, but in deed! The Lord has used her to physically and spiritually heal people, and bring people into a relationship with God everywhere she has went. She has done this in places like high school, summer jobs, and more recently…jail cells. I do not say these things to brag about her, but to brag about the reality and power of Jesus in her!

383 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:12:55pm

re: #357 Spare O’Lake

Would you forcibly return her to parental control at this time, leave her where she is, or put her in a foster home?

Emancipate her.

And her parents don’t owe her anything.

Let’s see how that works out.

384 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:13:09pm

re: #374 Charles

Here’s another fanatic who’s trying to capitalize on Rifqa Bary, Pastor Steve Hill. You won’t believe this one.


[Video]

Ohhh I hate it when they cry…

385 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:13:29pm

re: #351 LudwigVanQuixote

I seem to have missed a math quiz… Oh well…

An interesting question might be…

for those who like probability…

Suppose you have a culture that has children until they have a boy. Then they stop. So for example, A couple might have three daughters first and then stop when they have a boy and make no more babies.

What will the ration of girls to boys be in this culture?

Are we talking mathematics here? Or experience? Because in my great-grandparent’s experience, that was five girls to my one great-uncle. He is deeply afraid of his sisters to this day.

386 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:13:33pm

re: #374 Charles

Ugh. Couldn’t make it through that.

387 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:13:36pm

re: #376 Dianna

Again you attack this girl. Stop it. The dramatics of adolescence are well known to us all, but the ability of an adult to manipulate the vulnerable- especially on the internet- cannot be denied. Any other situation, we’d call this man what he is- an internet predator. Quit attacking the victim.

388 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:13:59pm

Well, it’s a good thing that we all know enough about this situation that we are going to go after a 17 year old girl, calling her a “drama queen”, and just assume that there is nothing negative going on for her other than a desire for attention. And also attacking people that were trying to take her at her word and help her.

The people who have taken this story and run with it, shame on them. Everyone else, what the hell do you know that would cause you to pass judgments and calling people names?

Is there something I’m missing here?

389 lurking faith  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:14:00pm

re: #305 Salamantis

On my GRE (Graduate Records Exam), I scored a 77o verbal and a 780 math (out of a possible 800)

/bragging mode now off

I thought the GRE had three parts: verbal, math, and logic.

Different era?

390 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:14:20pm

re: #370 LudwigVanQuixote

That’s not a hint, that’s work. MORE GRRRLS PLS!

391 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:14:25pm

re: #373 Sharmuta

I think Ms. Bary is a victim of an internet predator. Her and her family have issues like all families have, and the state of Ohio should continue to monitor the situation and see to it the family is getting counseling. She belongs with her family now that they’ve been cleared of these charges.

Evidence?

You’ve just laid on people you know nothing about (except their website) a very nasty charge.

392 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:14:28pm

re: #370 LudwigVanQuixote

Hint:

What is the sum of 1/2^n for n=1 to n= infinity…

1:1?

393 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:14:51pm

re: #383 Dianna

Emancipate her.

And her parents don’t owe her anything.

Let’s see how that works out.

Dianna I am with you on this. I think it is really likely that we have a combination of drama queen meets cult mets evil windbags looking for spotlight. Exactly the ratio of the first two is yet to be determined, but the last part is clear.

394 tradewind  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:15:09pm

re: #379 LudwigVanQuixote

If you had read my post re math scores vs verbal above, you’d know why I couldn’t go to any calculation route, pissy or otherwise…
:)

395 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:15:15pm

re: #374 Charles

I made it to 22 seconds. He did better than pamela, who lasted for 15.

396 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:15:16pm

re: #370 LudwigVanQuixote

There is an equal probability that three daughters will be born before a son is born as there is that three sons in a row will be born.

397 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:15:30pm

re: #373 Sharmuta

I think Ms. Bary is a victim of an internet predator.

What do you base this on?

398 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:15:48pm

re: #396 bosforus

There is an equal probability that three daughters will be born before a son is born as there is that three sons in a row will be born [from separate couples].

399 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:15:49pm

re: #389 lurking faith

I thought the GRE had three parts: verbal, math, and logic.

Different era?

It did in my day… And then there was a subject specific one which was non-trivial.

400 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:16:00pm

re: #355 LudwigVanQuixote

And I’ll tell you what Sal, answer this and I won’t consider you quite as mathematically deficient… :)

Since people cannot have an infinite number of children, an upper limit of tries has to be set, so the pure equation doesn’t apply.

Show me why the fallacy of denying the antecedent is functionally equivalent to the fallacy of affirming the consequent, and I won’t consider you so logically deficient.

401 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:16:00pm

re: #384 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohhh I hate it when they cry…

He’s not as good as Glenn Beck. Now there’s a man with a set of lacrimal glands.

//

402 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:16:24pm

re: #396 bosforus

There is an equal probability that three daughters will be born before a son is born as there is that three sons in a row will be born.

But they stop after one son. If they had a son first they make no more.

403 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:16:32pm

re: #393 LudwigVanQuixote

Dianna I am with you on this. I think it is really likely that we have a combination of drama queen meets cult mets evil windbags looking for spotlight. Exactly the ratio of the first two is yet to be determined, but the last part is clear.

And you should know, you live right next door to them… right?

404 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:16:35pm

re: #382 Charles

And another fanatic trying to hitch a ride on this bigoted bandwagon, Jamal Jivanjee, who posted this at Free Republic: PLEASE PRAY FOR MY INTERVIEW ON FOXNEWS TOMORROW MORNING (Friday August 28)

Oh, brother. Where do all these nuts come from? It’s a freaking epidemic!

405 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:16:46pm

re: #402 LudwigVanQuixote

But another couple might.

406 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:17:22pm

re: #378 Slumbering Behemoth

Not to mention the vomit stains on the floormat.

/damn that homemade pruno.

407 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:17:44pm
408 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:17:56pm

re: #400 Salamantis

Since people cannot have an infinite number of children, an upper limit of tries has to be set, so the pure equation doesn’t apply.

Show me why the fallacy of denying the antecedent is functionally equivalent to the fallacy of affirming the consequent, and I won’t consider you so logically deficient.

In other words you don’t know and you are copping out… You really should not have challenged me…

This is over an entire large population. Assume the populace in this culture is sufficiently large that any series will converge as if you were going to infinity.

409 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:18:37pm

re: #373 Sharmuta

I think Ms. Bary is a victim of an internet predator. Her and her family have issues like all families have, and the state of Ohio should continue to monitor the situation and see to it the family is getting counseling. She belongs with her family now that they’ve been cleared of these charges.

Think please.
The girl is shipped back.
She now hates her parents and their religion so she runs away again or harms herself. Or her parents lock her in her room or worse because they are afraid she will run away again.

410 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:18:55pm

re: #403 cliffster

And you should know, you live right next door to them… right?

The last part being that lots of pompous windbags are trying to glom on to this is clear… How much was the kid and how much was the church is unclear.

411 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:19:14pm

Has anybody seen Fran Drescher and Pam Gellar in the same room at the same time?

412 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:19:29pm

re: #365 Sharmuta

Now whose making assumptions?

Let me get this straight- you’re a skeptic wanting to hold off critiquing this church leader who recruits minor females across state lines, but we can impugn this girl?

I’m not saying anything except slow the fuck down!

I’m not impugning the girl; we know next to nothing about her! She’s a near-adult adolescent, with every single thing that goes with that, good and bad.

She may be a screaming romantic who simply let her imagination and ardor for new-found faith get away with her. She may be any number of things. We hardly know.

I’m pointing up alternatives, and suggesting that it might be nice not to instantaneously start criminalizing people. Since we’re talking about how her parents were criminalized by people of little taste and less sense.

413 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:19:31pm

re: #389 lurking faith

I thought the GRE had three parts: verbal, math, and logic.

Different era?

My logic score was 730; I’m a little bit ashamed of it.

414 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:19:50pm

re: #402 LudwigVanQuixote

Therefore, the ratio of girls to boys remains at FUCKIN’ AWE-SOME!
/

415 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:19:52pm

re: #405 bosforus

But another couple might.

Might what? Depending on how you mean that, you are either wrong or on the way to the answer!

416 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:20:21pm

re: #414 Slumbering Behemoth

Therefore, the ratio of girls to boys remains at FUCKIN’ AWE-SOME!
/

You will be amused at the answer.

417 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:20:34pm

re: #397 Danny

What do you base this on?

She met this pastor on the internet and then she was convinced she needed to run away from home to be with him. I’m surprised anyone would find it a stretch of the imagination. Kids are warned all the time not to talk to adults in chat rooms and such because the internet is a new weapon of recruiting for sexual predators. I have no idea if he had a sexual interest in her, but I still find this predatory. There was no need for her to leave Ohio.

418 Racer X  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:20:39pm

re: #407 MikeySDCA

As a Hare Krsna Hindu, albeit a very bad one, I have some experience of these issues. Very little of what is said, on either side, is likely to be true.

I have nothing witty to retort.

419 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:21:03pm

re: #382 Charles

Opportunism becomes particularly evil when it latches on to kids.

420 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:21:12pm
421 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:21:51pm

re: #392 bosforus

1:1?

Oops missed that! you are correct!

422 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:22:00pm

re: #415 LudwigVanQuixote

Might what? Depending on how you mean that, you are either wrong or on the way to the answer!

Well, let’s say a couple has three daughters then one boy and so they have to stop. Three other couples could have had one boy at the same time of that happening.
Prob. of first parents having 3 daughters in a row: (.5)*(.5)*(.5) = .125
Prob. of three separate parents having three sons and not one of the couples having a daughter: same.
Correct?

423 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:22:07pm

re: #411 Fenway_Nation

Has anybody seen Fran Drescher and Pam Gellar in the same room at the same time?

Not even the S.H. has an annoying of a voice as Fran Drescher.

424 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:22:12pm

re: #387 Sharmuta

Again you attack this girl. Stop it. The dramatics of adolescence are well known to us all, but the ability of an adult to manipulate the vulnerable- especially on the internet- cannot be denied. Any other situation, we’d call this man what he is- an internet predator. Quit attacking the victim.

I am not attacking the girl. Get a grip. Stop trying to say I’m doing something I’m not, and look at what you are doing.

What I am attacking is jumping to conclusions and laying charges on people when you don’t know!

Or is it OK when we do it, but not OK when done by the anti-Islamists?

There is one rule, or there isn’t a rule at all.

425 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:22:17pm

re: #397 Danny

What do you base this on?

Dunno about Sharmuta, but I base it on the fact that no respectable adult allows an unknown teenager to leave home and come live with him, rather contacting the appropriate authorities.

426 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:22:28pm

re: #411 Fenway_Nation

Shut your damn mouth! Fran is infinitely more attractive, graceful, and classy.

/I’ll grant you the grating voice, though

427 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:22:29pm

re: #415 LudwigVanQuixote

Might what? Depending on how you mean that, you are either wrong or on the way to the answer!

Sorry Bos… I missed your post, there, you did get it right for the right reasons! Good on you.

428 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:23:00pm

re: #421 LudwigVanQuixote

Oops missed that! you are correct!

At that point I had figured out the summation, I hadn’t quite thought of why it was right yet. I think I’ve got it now.

429 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:23:05pm

re: #410 LudwigVanQuixote

The last part being that lots of pompous windbags are trying to glom on to this is clear… How much was the kid and how much was the church is unclear.

Yeah we both agree on that part. It’s that first part - where you called her a “drama queen” without really knowing anything about her other than what you’ve read from those pompous windbags… that’s what’s getting me.

430 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:23:53pm
431 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:24:08pm

re: #416 LudwigVanQuixote

It’s more boys, isn’t it? DAMNIT!
/

I dunno, I am just goofing on the concept.

432 freetoken  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:24:27pm

I see we have a diehard Beck defender downstairs. Heck, it isn’t even 11PM yet.

433 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:24:39pm

re: #430 tiragi
For you:

434 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:24:50pm

re: #387 Sharmuta

Again you attack this girl. Stop it. The dramatics of adolescence are well known to us all, but the ability of an adult to manipulate the vulnerable- especially on the internet- cannot be denied. Any other situation, we’d call this man what he is- an internet predator. Quit attacking the victim.

You would force the brainwashed child, who now hates her parents and their religion, to return to parental control. In her state the girl is at risk of running away again or of harming herself.
Would you allow your own prejudgment to trump the physical safety of the child?
The child needs to be moved to a neutral safe place like a foster home until she is 18 and then she can do what she wants.

435 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:24:56pm

There’s our first asshole.

436 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:25:34pm

re: #430 tiragi

If I didn’t know any better, I’d think you were rooting for this girl to get murdered by her family.

437 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:25:43pm

re: #374 Charles

What a drama queen that one is.

/The pastor, not the girl

438 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:26:05pm

re: #430 tiragi

Sick, cynical fuck.

439 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:26:13pm

re: #422 bosforus

You were correct. I missed one of your posts.. my bad…

There will be as many girls as boys.

The reason is that the sum of 1/2^n from n=1 to infinity is 1.

Make a prob tree for the whole populace and assume .5 chance of a boy.

.5 of the populace had a boy and stopped on the first round.

The other .5 had a girl.

On the second round, those who had a girl try again…

.5 have a boy and stop to be balanced out by .5 having a girl…

etc etc…

sum them all up and you have 1:1

440 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:26:13pm

re: #412 Dianna

Maybe you’ve had less experience with predatory, manipulative men. If so, lucky you. He was the adult here- what was he thinking having her come to Florida? If he really cared for the girl- he’d have found her something closer to home, because kids need stability.

And as far as slowing down- we’re at the end of the investigation, not the beginning. This entire thing has been based on lies. Her parents are innocent. She could barely explain what an honor killing was, and I’m supposed to think she wasn’t manipulated? Give me a break.

441 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:27:07pm

re: #431 Slumbering Behemoth

It’s more boys, isn’t it? DAMNIT!
/

I dunno, I am just goofing on the concept.

Actually it is the same :)

442 erraticsphinx  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:27:10pm

re: #440 Sharmuta

Didn’t she stay with them for 2 weeks or something before they alerted authorities?

Fishy fishy fishy fishy

443 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:28:08pm

re: #388 cliffster

Well, it’s a good thing that we all know enough about this situation that we are going to go after a 17 year old girl, calling her a “drama queen”, and just assume that there is nothing negative going on for her other than a desire for attention. And also attacking people that were trying to take her at her word and help her.

The people who have taken this story and run with it, shame on them. Everyone else, what the hell do you know that would cause you to pass judgments and calling people names?

Is there something I’m missing here?

I’m asking everyone to slow down.

I’m not saying the girl is anything except there, the subject of the story.

I’m saying that we have few facts, but lots of opinions, and it would be nice if we didn’t start applying “predator” to people we know nothing about; remember, this is a thread about her parents having been pre-judged?

I’m constantly assaulting the notion of the girl as a non-actor, someone “lured” or “brainwashed” over the internet like some sort of pigeon in a Skinner box. Do all of you remember being a relatively bright near-adult? I do! I am suspending judgement on the young woman until a report is issued; I’m suspending judgement on the church until a report is issued.

For the record, I have suspended any judgement on this at all until a report was issued.

444 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:28:14pm

re: #417 Sharmuta

She met this pastor on the internet and then she was convinced she needed to run away from home to be with him. I’m surprised anyone would find it a stretch of the imagination.

I never said it was a stretch. Unquestionably it’s imagination at this point, don’t you agree?

445 lurking faith  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:28:29pm

re: #413 Salamantis

My logic score was 730; I’m a little bit ashamed of it.

Didn’t mean to hit a sore spot! Me, I studied for the logic portion by getting a couple of logic puzzle magazines. They were actually much more helpful preparing me for that section than the study guide I bought was, because there was enough material that I learned how to work through the questions at speed.

Most fun I ever had studying. Well, other than “studying” at an off-campus Mexican restaurant on margarita night.

446 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:28:42pm

re: #439 LudwigVanQuixote

That was a good one. Thx. I’m one of those people that buys those word/number puzzle bargain books at bookstores so I’m almost always up for problems like these.

447 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:28:44pm

re: #422 bosforus

Well, let’s say a couple has three daughters then one boy and so they have to stop. Three other couples could have had one boy at the same time of that happening.
Prob. of first parents having 3 daughters in a row: (.5)*(.5)*(.5) = .125
Prob. of three separate parents having three sons and not one of the couples having a daughter: same.
Correct?

And yes, that is why the answer is obvious once you see it.

448 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:29:06pm

re: #435 Charles

There’s our first asshole.

LOLOLOL.
Did you have to post that one right after my last comment?

449 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:29:44pm

re: #424 Dianna

You have repeatedly called her a cheerleading drama queen. It’s ugly, and I suggest you read Dr. Chesler’s book Woman’s Inhumanity to Woman.

As a woman, I think this girl is confused, and she’s been through something she won’t understand for years, but she’s a victim here. She deserves our sympathy, not name calling.

450 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:29:54pm
451 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:30:48pm

re: #443 Dianna

Wrong. You called her a “cheerleading drama queen”. And others echoed your sentiment.

452 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:30:48pm

re: #435 Charles

We’re going to miss his contribution.

-1 comments.

453 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:31:16pm

re: #439 LudwigVanQuixote

Great. Fine. Now show me the equation where we get MOAR GRRRLS Mr. Smarty Pants!
/

454 bosforus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:31:22pm

re: #447 LudwigVanQuixote

And yes, that is why the answer is obvious once you see it.

That’s actually why I went back and tried to figure out your problem after having skimmed over it the first time. I hate looking in the back of the book and realizing how easy a problem was.

455 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:31:24pm

My my…this nasty little sock’s been fermenting for awhile.

tiragi:
Karma: -5
Registered since: Aug 30, 2004 at 12:04 am

No. of comments posted: 0
No. of links posted: 0

456 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:31:39pm

re: #425 SanFranciscoZionist

Dunno about Sharmuta, but I base it on the fact that no respectable adult allows an unknown teenager to leave home and come live with him, rather contacting the appropriate authorities.

Funny - didn’t the church contact the Florida authorities?

457 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:32:25pm

re: #454 bosforus

That’s actually why I went back and tried to figure out your problem after having skimmed over it the first time. I hate looking in the back of the book and realizing how easy a problem was.

yeah it can be easy to fake yourself out…

458 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:32:46pm

I have a feeling this story won’t be over soon.

459 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:32:56pm

re: #455 Fenway_Nation

My my…this nasty little sock’s been fermenting for awhile.

Whose sock was it, I wonder.

460 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:33:43pm

re: #444 Danny

I never said it was a stretch. Unquestionably it’s imagination at this point, don’t you agree?

No- I’ve seen enough. She wasn’t in an islamic fundamentalist family. So who the hell put this idea in her head? My first suspect would be the guy who allowed her to cross state lines as a minor to be with him.

461 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:35:09pm

re: #98 SanFranciscoZionist

I will admit that a teeny voice in the back of my mind is worried that the Bary’s will unexpectedly turn out to be total sociopaths. I don’t think it’s going to happen, but DAMN. Always that worry.

That said, do you actually think this girl is capable of taking care of herself as an adult, when her first foray into adulthood was to travel out of the state and put herself in the hands of crazy people?

The court has a problem. Just how crazy are these crazy people? And just how often do parents of apostates say one thing and do another? From where I sit, the default decision is to let the girl go her own way, but yes, she isn’t making a perfect job of it and the court will have to mull this one over.

462 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:35:24pm

re: #408 LudwigVanQuixote

In other words you don’t know and you are copping out… You really should not have challenged me…

This is over an entire large population. Assume the populace in this culture is sufficiently large that any series will converge as if you were going to infinity.

1/2 (providing a 50-50 chance of either gender, when actually around 55% of chi8ldren born are femaile).

Each iteration is a new thing.

Half the first set of births is male, and half is female.

The same for the second set.

And the third.

And so on, ad nauseum, ad infinitum.

463 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:35:46pm

re: #440 Sharmuta

Maybe you’ve had less experience with predatory, manipulative men. If so, lucky you. He was the adult here- what was he thinking having her come to Florida? If he really cared for the girl- he’d have found her something closer to home, because kids need stability.

And as far as slowing down- we’re at the end of the investigation, not the beginning. This entire thing has been based on lies. Her parents are innocent. She could barely explain what an honor killing was, and I’m supposed to think she wasn’t manipulated? Give me a break.

Do not try to bring personal experience into this to dismiss me. That particular subject is sooo not on the table.

No, we’re not at the end of the investigation. We’re at the end of the investigation of her parents. Who were innocent. Despite much shrieking.

Was she manipulated? If she were, wouldn’t you have expected her to reel off a pat answer? Have been given a series of examples?

The evidence, at this exact instant, doesn’t exist to support either position.

464 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:35:54pm

re: #453 Slumbering Behemoth

Great. Fine. Now show me the equation where we get MOAR GRRRLS Mr. Smarty Pants!
/

OK, assume you have a culture where xy sperm are half as likely to be made because of some genetic quirk in the men…

465 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:36:08pm

re: #449 Sharmuta

You have repeatedly called her a cheerleading drama queen. It’s ugly, and I suggest you read Dr. Chesler’s book Woman’s Inhumanity to Woman.

As a woman, I think this girl is confused, and she’s been through something she won’t understand for years, but she’s a victim here. She deserves our sympathy, not name calling.

The choice is NOT between leaving her where she is and sending her home.
She can be moved to a foster home instead.
Why do you ignore the obvious solution which would ensure the safety of the child?

466 equable  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:36:34pm

Makes one wonder where Gloria Allred was during all of this. Methinks it’s another situation where she knew she couldn’t win so she avoided it like the black plague.

467 Racer X  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:36:52pm

re: #464 LudwigVanQuixote

OK, assume you have a culture where xy sperm are half as likely to be made because of some genetic quirk in the men…

In bed

468 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:36:52pm

This just strikes me as the sort of thing you’d expect Chris Hansen and his camera crew to jump into.

It just doesn’t smell right at all.

469 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:37:23pm

re: #462 Salamantis

1/2 (providing a 50-50 chance of either gender, when actually around 55% of chi8ldren born are femaile).

Each iteration is a new thing.

Half the first set of births is male, and half is female.

The same for the second set.

And the third.

And so on, ad nauseum, ad infinitum.

And no, I didn’t referesh to check before I figured it out.

470 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:38:02pm

There’s been an awful lot of attacking this girl, considering how much “reserving judgement” is going on.

471 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:38:09pm

Maybe some facts are in order

The report, which was under a 10-day seal that expired Monday, alleges 17-year-old Rifqa Bary misled investigators about most of the details about how she arrived in Florida.

Bary initially claimed she hitchhiked her way to the Greyhound bus station in Columbus, Ohio and used money she had saved up from her job to buy the ticket to Orlando. Instead, investigators say she was driven to the bus station by a young pastor named Brian Williams (read more about him here). He baptized Bary in Columbus but has since moved to Kansas City. And the ticket, they say, was purchased under a fake name by someone in Orlando.

Once here, authorities say she was met by the Law family, apparently leading members of the Global Revolution Church, and taken to the home of the church’s Pastor Blake Lorenz. She stayed there for 2-and-a-half weeks before her first hearing in juvenile court that placed her in foster care. The report does not say that the Lorenz family, or the church as a whole, had an explicit role in getting Bary to Orlando.

472 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:38:23pm

re: #360 LudwigVanQuixote

Oops pimf…

for those who like probability…

Suppose you have a culture that has children until they have a boy. Then they stop. So for example, A couple might have three daughters first and then stop when they have a boy and make no more babies.

What will the ratio of girls to boys be in this culture?

About 1.02, just like it is in cultures that have other customs. Where the ratio gets out of whack is when they start doing sex selection on a large scale, and most parents have the same preference.

But here’s another question: what are the implications for us humans of the recent story to the effect that fully 20% of male bass [fish] in the U.S. have eggs growing in their testes? What are the stats on gender abnormalities doing?

473 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:38:30pm

re: #451 cliffster

Wrong. You called her a “cheerleading drama queen”. And others echoed your sentiment.

I was making a point.

First, I know nothing about the girl but what I’ve read in the various articles. She was a cheerleader; the report stated that she told a story about her father never seeing her in her uniform while there were pictures of her in said uniform…I jumped on that when people started making accusations we haven’t actual evidence for.

474 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:39:13pm

re: #456 Dianna

Funny - didn’t the church contact the Florida authorities?

If I understand correctly, after more than two weeks had gone by.

475 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:39:18pm

night all!

476 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:39:32pm

re: #462 Salamantis

1/2 (providing a 50-50 chance of either gender, when actually around 55% of chi8ldren born are femaile).

Each iteration is a new thing.

Half the first set of births is male, and half is female.

The same for the second set.

And the third.

And so on, ad nauseum, ad infinitum.

I already posted the answer after someone else got it… weren’t you arguing that such reasoning was impossible though before…

wait… Yes you were…

Since people cannot have an infinite number of children, an upper limit of tries has to be set, so the pure equation doesn’t apply.

Show me why the fallacy of denying the antecedent is functionally equivalent to the fallacy of affirming the consequent, and I won’t consider you so logically deficient.

So how is your logic consistent? Sorry no bagel…

477 Racer X  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:40:01pm

U.S. Government Finds $20 Trillion Buried By Absentminded Reagan In 1987

WASHINGTON—In what government officials are calling a stirring testament to the leadership and foresight of late U.S. president Ronald Reagan, nearly $20 trillion in low denomination bills were discovered this week buried in the White House Rose Garden.

478 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:40:53pm

re: #475 ggt
Night ggt!

479 Purre  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:41:02pm

re: #443 Dianna

I’m asking everyone to slow down.

I’m not saying the girl is anything except there, the subject of the story.

I’m saying that we have few facts, but lots of opinions, and it would be nice if we didn’t start applying “predator” to people we know nothing about; remember, this is a thread about her parents having been pre-judged?

I’m constantly assaulting the notion of the girl as a non-actor, someone “lured” or “brainwashed” over the internet like some sort of pigeon in a Skinner box. Do all of you remember being a relatively bright near-adult? I do! I am suspending judgement on the young woman until a report is issued; I’m suspending judgement on the church until a report is issued.

For the record, I have suspended any judgement on this at all until a report was issued.

I agree about not labeling anyone without strong evidence. I remember one case from here in Finland where several lives were ruined and child traumatized by well wishing people who made accusations beyond the evidence. That was case of child abuse allegation (and was proven in the end to be completely in the minds of the accusers with no shred of truth in them), not domestic dispute.

As for the girl in this case, well, I do hope that case workers in her case get things solved efficiently. I have myself once talked down girl who wanted to escape home for the sake of love (not me, mind you) and in the end she got her education, found herself nice husband and they have their first child now. Anyway, she was at that time 17 and hardly controllable. Who knows, maybe the girl in this Bary case is weak willed as there certainly are such people. Dunno.

(and apologies for not having too clear train of thought!)

480 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:41:50pm

re: #472 lostlakehiker

About 1.02, just like it is in cultures that have other customs. Where the ratio gets out of whack is when they start doing sex selection on a large scale, and most parents have the same preference.

But here’s another question: what are the implications for us humans of the recent story to the effect that fully 20% of male bass [fish] in the U.S. have eggs growing in their testes? What are the stats on gender abnormalities doing?

I have no idea about Bass populations.. I thought that fish released gametes into the water to directly fertilize. I really don’t know.. Could a semi-hermaphroditic fish fertilize itself?

I can say that when I hear things like that I think of pollution issues.

481 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:42:34pm

re: #476 LudwigVanQuixote

So how is your logic consistent? Sorry no bagel…

That’s why I backed away and reconsidered it…and got it right…with no help from the peanut gallery.

You just can’t stomach the fact that I figured it out. On my own.

Because that would have to mean that you would have to grant me some degree of mathematical acumen…as you promised to do.

482 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:42:45pm

re: #477 Racer X

Don’t tell 0bama what comes after a trillion…please!

483 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:43:05pm

re: #477 Racer X

U.S. Government Finds $20 Trillion Buried By Absentminded Reagan In 1987

WASHINGTON—In what government officials are calling a stirring testament to the leadership and foresight of late U.S. president Ronald Reagan, nearly $20 trillion in low denomination bills were discovered this week buried in the White House Rose Garden.

Tomorrow’s story: Obama finds ways to waste Reagan’s secret stash.

/mostly kidding

484 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:43:11pm

re: #460 Sharmuta

No- I’ve seen enough. She wasn’t in an islamic fundamentalist family. So who the hell put this idea in her head? My first suspect would be the guy who allowed her to cross state lines as a minor to be with him.

Then you’ve reached a verdict without having all the facts. Isn’t that just the same thing Geller et al. are doing?

485 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:43:12pm

Gates of Vienna is trumpeting the Powerline thing as a victory for them and for the Vlaams Belang, by the way. There’s overwhelming support for racist creep Robert Stacy McCain, on the right wing blogs.

I’m watching the entire right wing blogosphere melt down into a stinky puddle of fascist slime.

486 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:43:27pm

re: #481 Salamantis

That’s why I backed away and reconsidered it…and got it right…with no help from the peanut gallery.

You just can’t stomach the fact that I figured it out. On my own.

Because that would have to mean that you would have to grant me some degree of mathematical acumen…as you promised to do.

OK Sal, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt… Have a bagel :)

487 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:43:32pm

re: #449 Sharmuta

You have repeatedly called her a cheerleading drama queen. It’s ugly, and I suggest you read Dr. Chesler’s book Woman’s Inhumanity to Woman.

As a woman, I think this girl is confused, and she’s been through something she won’t understand for years, but she’s a victim here. She deserves our sympathy, not name calling.

*sigh*

I have repeatedly tried to get through that she could be an innocent woolly lamb, or a drama-queen, but we don’t know.

Of course she’s confused, and who (besides you?) thinks I’m unsympathetic? I merely object to the readiness to jump from the parents as villains to the church as villains before we have a report, or charges, or anything.

My lack of sympathy is not to her. It’s to an attitude.

488 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:44:45pm

re: #485 Charles

Gates of Vienna is trumpeting the Powerline thing as a victory for them and for the Vlaams Belang, by the way. There’s overwhelming support for racist creep Robert Stacy McCain, on the right wing blogs.

I’m watching the entire right wing blogosphere melt down into a stinky puddle of fascist slime.

They mostly kinda always were, you know.

489 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:44:55pm

re: #400 Salamantis

Since people cannot have an infinite number of children, an upper limit of tries has to be set, so the pure equation doesn’t apply.

Show me why the fallacy of denying the antecedent is functionally equivalent to the fallacy of affirming the consequent, and I won’t consider you so logically deficient.

The fact is it simply doesn’t matter what rule people use. So long as they don’t abort selectively, or use high-tech equivalent means, the proportion of boy births to girl births will be the same whatever the customs are.

At least, that’s what you’d get if the sex of a child were really a coin toss. It remains logically possible that this is not the case. If, before this custom arose, some population had statistics where a lot more than 1/4 of the families with 3 children had all 3 of the same sex, more than 1/8 with 4 had all four of the same sex, and so on, you could conclude that some men made mostly y-sperm, and some made mostly x. In such a world, if families always kept going until they got a girl, there would be some very large bands of brothers, and there would be more boys than girls born.

490 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:45:29pm

re: #470 cliffster

Incorrect.

I’m not - repeat: NOT - attacking the girl.

I’m attacking an attitude.

491 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:45:32pm

And I’m still waiting for you to address my logical question.

492 Dianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:46:38pm

re: #484 Danny

Then you’ve reached a verdict without having all the facts. Isn’t that just the same thing Geller et al. are doing?

Looks that way to me.

Good night. I’m never going to sleep, but I might as well try.

493 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:46:49pm

re: #486 LudwigVanQuixote

OK Sal, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt… Have a bagel :)

*Munch!*

494 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:47:13pm

re: #485 Charles

Yay! They win! The prize? Me not reading their fascist apologias, ever.

Not that I did in the first place. Fuck ‘em.

495 erraticsphinx  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:48:07pm

re: #485 Charles

Don’t worry, there are a lot of people who are still sane and with you on this.

496 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:48:39pm

Pastor in runaway “Christian convert” case starts new ministry

This is an unexpected development in the Rifqa Bary case: the Orlando pastor who first took in the runaway Christian convert from Ohio has started a new ministry, and the church he founded is reportedly “restructuring.”

A quick summary here: Bary ran away from her home, claiming her Muslim parents want to kill her for converting to Christianity. Cops and the girl’s family say they think it’s more of a family dispute that has little to do with religion.

Lorenz actually introduced Bary to his congregation, which meets at the Festival Bay Mall, a day before her first custody hearing in July. We first reported on the inflammatory rhetoric Lorenz used as he talked about “Anna,” his name for Rifqa. The church quickly became upset that we were airing the sermon in which Lorenz talked about Bary’s situation and the fight against the “one world government.”

Fishy fishy. Nothing about this guy gives me a sense he’s on the up and up.

497 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:49:13pm

Ludwig does highlight the reason for the Chinese disparity, however; the restriction to a finite number of children to produce a male, which causes women to abort their female fetuses and try again, and again…

498 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:49:54pm

re: #496 Sharmuta

Pastor in runaway “Christian convert” case starts new ministry

Fishy fishy. Nothing about this guy gives me a sense he’s on the up and up.

Oddly enough I’m searching for some background on the Global Revolution Church. Nothing in the web archives. Seems like they got started in August of last year.

499 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:50:09pm

Figuring this shit out while drinking is teh hard!

500 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:50:20pm

I’m fading, so I’m going to turn in. Good night, all.

501 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:50:51pm

re: #496 Sharmuta


We first reported on the inflammatory rhetoric Lorenz used as he talked about “Anna,” his name for Rifqa.

Re-naming. Cultish.

502 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:51:09pm

re: #487 Dianna

I haven’t called the church villains at all. That’s a mischaracterization of what I’ve said. I’ve specifically talked about one person being a predator- not the entire congregation.

503 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:51:38pm

re: #499 Salamantis

Fuck it. Drink harder, and let the shit figure itself out.

504 Racer X  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:51:55pm
505 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:52:45pm

re: #490 Dianna

Incorrect.

I’m not - repeat: NOT - attacking the girl.

I’m attacking an attitude.

First - this wasn’t directed necessarily only at you, it was at a general trend

Second - you certainly fooled me then. Perhaps there was an underlying sarcasm to what you were saying that didn’t come through the zero’s and one’s of the internet, and if that’s true then I guess it was just bad communication channels.

506 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:53:01pm

re: #498 Gus 802

Wonder if they’re practitioners of ‘Apostolic Socialism’…like Jim Jones.

/Distrusts anything with the name ‘Revolution’ in the title up to and including Iran’s Revolutionary Guards, tHugo Chavez’s Bloviator Bolivar Revolution or the Ron Paul Revolution…

507 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:53:18pm

re: #499 Salamantis

Figuring this shit out while drinking is teh hard!

didn’t you say it was Icehouse earlier? Geez.

508 Equable  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:53:24pm

re: #503 Slumbering Behemoth

Hear hear!

This Guinness is for you.

509 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:54:12pm

re: #498 Gus 802

Oddly enough I’m searching for some background on the Global Revolution Church. Nothing in the web archives. Seems like they got started in August of last year.

And he’s already moving on. Fascinating.

510 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:54:20pm

re: #506 Fenway_Nation

Wonder if they’re practitioners of ‘Apostolic Socialism’…like Jim Jones.

/Distrusts anything with the name ‘Revolution’ in the title up to and including Iran’s Revolutionary Guards, tHugo Chavez’s Bloviator Bolivar Revolution or the Ron Paul Revolution…

I don’t know but they do throw in the word radical in a few places.

511 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:54:49pm

re: #500 Dark_Falcon

I’m fading, so I’m going to turn in. Good night, all.

Night, Dark One.

512 erraticsphinx  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:54:55pm

Note to self : Churches with the word “revolution” in their names, that meet in movie theaters in malls and warehouses, and also have “new world order” ranting
pastors are to be regarded suspiciously.

513 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:56:08pm

re: #509 Sharmuta

And he’s already moving on. Fascinating.

Well, his bio says he was a “professional baseball player.” I just started looking. Found something were he posted the birth of his child. Everything seems to pop up right about the time this Rifqa Bary things came about.

514 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:56:18pm

re: #507 cliffster

didn’t you say it was Icehouse earlier? Geez.

Yep. I’m ion my third 22oz Icehouse now.

515 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:56:28pm

re: #508 Equable

Hear hear!

This Guinness is for you.

I am not seeing it yet. Press it harder against the monitor.
/

516 Racer X  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:57:08pm
Scientists Find The Gene That Produces THC

In one of the few scientific developments likely to interest both the Governor of North Dakota and Method Man, scientists at the University of Minnesota have identified the genes in cannabis that allow the plant to produce THC. Finding the genes opens the path to either create drug-free hemp plants for industrial purposes, or to develop plants with much higher concentrations of the psychotropic chemical.

Yes!

*fist pump*

517 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:57:34pm

re: #514 Salamantis

Yep. I’m ion my third 22oz Icehouse now.

And you might have lost count. Pity that there’s probably no more logic puzzles coming from you tonight…

518 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:57:42pm

re: #497 Salamantis

Ludwig does highlight the reason for the Chinese disparity, however; the restriction to a finite number of children to produce a male, which causes women to abort their female fetuses and try again, and again…

Those statistics are different though than the problem.

The the Chinese allow for only one baby period male of female.

I remember reading somewhere that they now have something like 30,000,000 men without any hope of finding a woman. I imagine that this will have three long term effects…

1. Women’s rights will improve somewhat in China.
2. China will invade someone else for their women.
3. Being gay will be seen as more of an “option.”

519 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:58:52pm

OH! And as for the pastor being on the up and up about reporting her presence in Florida? Here are the facts:

Lorenz told the church Bary had been staying with him and his wife, Beverly, at their home for 2-and-a-half weeks.

“The fear we live with is the police are going to show up, take us off, arrest us,” Lorenz said. “Oh that couldn’t happen? It happened to the man that baptized her!”

Lorenz was referring to a young pastor in Kansas City, Missouri who helped Columbus police track down where Bary had gone, after they threatened to arrest him.

“The police showed up at his apartment in Kansas City to arrest him. Illegally searched his apartment and all the apartments there looking for her, convinced she was there. Don’t say it can’t happen in America!” Lorenz preached.

They turned her in because they had to.

520 Equable  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:59:16pm

re: #515 Slumbering Behemoth

I’m gaivin’ airr all she’s gawt, Capt’n!

521 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:59:19pm

re: #512 erraticsphinx

Note to self : Churches with the word “revolution” in their names, that meet in movie theaters in malls and warehouses, and also have “new world order” ranting
pastors are to be regarded suspiciously.

Thank you.

522 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:59:44pm

re: #518 LudwigVanQuixote

Those statistics are different though than the problem.

The the Chinese allow for only one baby period male of female.

I remember reading somewhere that they now have something like 30,000,000 men without any hope of finding a woman. I imagine that this will have three long term effects…

1. Women’s rights will improve somewhat in China.
2. China will invade someone else for their women.
3. Being gay will be seen as more of an “option.”

Fourth option:

Polyandry.

523 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:00:08pm

re: #512 erraticsphinx

Note to self : Churches with the word “revolution” in their names, that meet in movie theaters in malls and warehouses, and also have “new world order” ranting
pastors are to be regarded suspiciously.

How about “Church of Conscious Harmony”? That’s not made up, and the parking lot is not empty on Sundays.

524 freetoken  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:00:24pm

re: #516 Racer X

Imagine adding the THC gene to corn (maize.)

Doritos anyone?

525 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:01:02pm

re: #518 LudwigVanQuixote

2. China will invade someone else for their women.

Russia’s right next door. IIRC, women slightly outnumber men in most parts of the former Soviet Union…

/get your popcorn ready

526 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:01:38pm

re: #520 Equable

I’m seeing it, but it’s not drinkable yet. PRESS. HARDER.
/

527 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:02:44pm

re: #523 cliffster


Is that anything like the Church of Bone Thugs ‘n Harmony?

528 erraticsphinx  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:03:45pm

re: #523 cliffster

They sound great! I want to join.

Our “revolution” church friends on the other hand, smell like that giant Tokyo fish market in the summer.

529 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:04:56pm

re: #518 LudwigVanQuixote

Those statistics are different though than the problem.

The the Chinese allow for only one baby period male of female.

I remember reading somewhere that they now have something like 30,000,000 men without any hope of finding a woman. I imagine that this will have three long term effects…

1. Women’s rights will improve somewhat in China.
2. China will invade someone else for their women.
3. Being gay will be seen as more of an “option.”

4. Polygamy, one female and several males.

530 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:05:10pm

More:

Columbus Police, at the time, were not sure what had happened to the teenager. She vanished in July and investigators were concerned she may have been the victim of foul play. Instead, Bary now says, she hitchiked to a Columbus bus station and rode a Greyhound bus to Orlando. Once here, she says she borrowed a cell phone and called the Lorenzes.

This pastor stinks to heck.

Unnamed tick to Orlando, calls to him first thing, hides her for weeks while investigators and her family think she might be dead. But I should cut him some slack. Puhlease.

531 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:05:27pm

re: #517 cliffster

And you might have lost count. Pity that there’s probably no more logic puzzles coming from you tonight…

What’s the smallest integral number that is the sum of two different sets of cubed integers?

532 freetoken  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:05:53pm

re: #523 cliffster

How about “Church of Conscious Harmony”? That’s not made up, and the parking lot is not empty on Sundays.

The Church of the Doobie Dorito would probably have a very full parking lot.

533 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:06:42pm

OK here are some less easy problems that still do not require heavy math to solve…

Suppose that you have a regular octohedron (8 sided die for you D&D types) and each face of it is a different color. How many distinguishable octohedra can be made?

Lets say you have a card game where a normal deck of cards, 4 suits of 13 cards, is dealt out completely to four players on two teams. What are the odds that a particular team has at least one complete suit between them?

534 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:07:19pm

re: #532 freetoken


That’s because most of the parish would’ve forgotten where they’d parked.

535 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:07:34pm

re: #525 Fenway_Nation

Russia’s right next door. IIRC, women slightly outnumber men in most parts of the former Soviet Union…

/get your popcorn ready

My evil wrong and dark joke is that they invade the Norks.

536 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:07:56pm

re: #529 Spare O’Lake

4. Polygamy, one female and several males.

No, polygamy can be broken down into polygyny (multiple wives for single husbands, like in Islam and historical Mormonism) and polyandry (multiple husbands for single wives, like in Paint Your Wagon).

537 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:10:08pm

re: #518 LudwigVanQuixote

Or add one more option: 4) Women’s rights will be further eroded as the government looks to “correct” the imbalance by requiring women to marry, forces women from neighboring contries to serve as stand ins etc.

Why assume China will ever improve? There’s no evidence. And historically, newly won rights and priveledges are the first to be lost.

538 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:11:00pm

re: #530 Sharmuta

More:

This pastor stinks to heck.

Unnamed tick to Orlando, calls to him first thing, hides her for weeks while investigators and her family think she might be dead. But I should cut him some slack. Puhlease.

Sounds like they were trying to cover their tracks.

Blake W Lorenz was a minor league baseball player for one year: 1977.

[Link: www.baseball-reference.com…]

539 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:11:03pm

re: #535 LudwigVanQuixote


They probably won’t have to invade…China has more leverge over the Norks than we do. Besides, I think there’s a booming underground Chinese market in trafficking Nork women and refugees so that they can be sold as brides, prostitues or endentured servants.

540 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:13:04pm

re: #539 Fenway_Nation

They probably won’t have to invade…China has more leverge over the Norks than we do. Besides, I think there’s a booming underground Chinese market in trafficking Nork women and refugees so that they can be sold as brides, prostitues or endentured servants.

There is only so long that a nation of about 20 million could redresss the gender imbalance in a nation of 1.2 billion.

Which is why they are also pulling females out of Southeast Asia.

541 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:14:35pm

re: #531 Salamantis

What’s the smallest integral number that is the sum of two different sets of cubed integers?

Catherine the Great was born

542 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:14:59pm

re: #518 LudwigVanQuixote

Those statistics are different though than the problem.

The the Chinese allow for only one baby period male of female.

I remember reading somewhere that they now have something like 30,000,000 men without any hope of finding a woman. I imagine that this will have three long term effects…

1. Women’s rights will improve somewhat in China.
2. China will invade someone else for their women.
3. Being gay will be seen as more of an “option.”

I thought I had heard China was recently considering moving to a two child limit due to the sexual disparity. Let me see if I can find a link.

543 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:15:24pm
544 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:17:07pm

OK Weird question. Is there such thing as the phrase “circumcise my heart?”

545 Banner  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:17:13pm

Considering the amount of honor killings that take place around the world, and even here in America, I wouldn’t send her home. She wants to leave home, and when she’s 18 she’d leave home anyway if her father does not kill her.

And if her father did kill her, then what? He goes to jail for a few years? That does her a lot of good, doesn’t it?

The father’s religion has a history of killing converts. Honor killings are rather common today sadly. If those things were rare it would be one thing. However they’re not. What does the least harm here is to emancipate the minor and not send her home.

546 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:17:36pm

Don’t wanna be an American idiot.
Good night LGF.

547 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:18:22pm

re: #542 Sharmuta

I thought I had heard China was recently considering moving to a two child limit due to the sexual disparity. Let me see if I can find a link.

I had heard that too, but it doesn’t help all the boys born in the eighties and nineties.

548 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:18:47pm

re: #544 Gus 802

OK Weird question. Is there such thing as the phrase “circumcise my heart?”

If you are a certain type of Protestant yes…

549 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:19:07pm

Here they come.

550 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:19:09pm

re: #546 Spare O’Lake

Fare thee well, spare of the freshwater aquatic body persuasion…

551 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:19:18pm
552 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:19:32pm

re: #548 LudwigVanQuixote

If you are a certain type of Protestant yes…

Yep, I see now. Did a search. Kind of reminded me a little of the phrase “unchain my heart.”

553 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:19:55pm

re: #543 SeafoodGumbo

Dunno, maybe because the in-depth police investigation revealed no evidence that the parents ever threatened their daughter, whereas numerous parts of the girl’s story were proven to be false. Anyway, you’ve mentioned it now.

554 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:20:01pm

re: #374 Charles

wtf, where do you get this shit??

555 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:20:46pm

re: #542 Sharmuta

I thought I had heard China was recently considering moving to a two child limit due to the sexual disparity. Let me see if I can find a link.

It seems it’s being allowed in certain localities:

According to the new laws approved by provinces and autonomous regions, the right for parents who are both single children to have a second baby is protected.

Since the late 1970s, China has adopted the one-child policy to curb its population explosion. The policy has turned China into a low birth rate country and churned out many young single children.

The policy does not prohibit a husband and wife who are both single children from bearing a second baby. However, this is the first time governments have turned to the law to protect the right.

Unmentioned in the article is exactly why China’s birth rate is low- lack of females. Wouldn’t want the ugly truth about misogynistic policies/attitudes to come to light.

556 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:21:56pm

re: #547 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually it doesn’t help the ones that will be born after, either. The reason for the disparity was the parents’ preference for boys. SOME will settle for one girl, one boy. Many will try for 2 boys. Or simply get 2 boys because they had a boy first, and then failed to make a girl the next time. Oops. Stupid is as stupid does. Governments can’t legislate social policy effectively.

557 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:23:36pm

re: #553 Danny

Dunno, maybe because the in-depth police investigation revealed no evidence that the parents ever threatened their daughter, whereas numerous parts of the girl’s story were proven to be false. Anyway, you’ve mentioned it now.

A Newsweek article said the parents agreed to counseling and the girl is going to live with foster parents for the time being.

[Link: www.newsweek.com…]

From the 9th of this month.

The Barys have volunteered to participate in family counseling with Franklin County Children Services in Ohio, and they agreed to let Rifqa stay with a foster family there in the meantime. But for now, the state of Florida has custody of her. “It’s very hard for us to believe that it has gone so far,” says Mohamed. “We love her; we want her to come back. She can be a Christian, that’s not a problem.”

558 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:23:37pm
559 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:26:10pm

re: #555 Sharmuta

…lack of females.

brings a new meaning to misogyny ?

560 freetoken  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:27:27pm

re: #559 cliffster

brings a new meaning to misogyny ?

Yet it likely is among the original misogynistic practices. Preferring male children over female is quite old.

561 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:27:54pm

re: #543 SeafoodGumbo

Did you know Jawa Report has been offering up apologia for Robert Spencer and demanding Charles stop “attacking” him? I personally can’t find Rusty a credible source after such a terrible judgement call and failure to consider the evidence. But that’s just me.

562 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:29:03pm

re: #560 freetoken

Yet it likely is among the original misogynistic practices. Preferring male children over female is quite old.

Perpetrated by both men and women.

563 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:30:22pm

re: #560 freetoken

Yet it likely is among the original misogynistic practices. Preferring male children over female is quite old.

No shit! I myself prefer female children.

/when they’re grown up; not like Muhammed with Aisha.

564 freetoken  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:32:19pm

LVQ - a movie just for you:

Opens soon I hear.

565 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:32:54pm

re: #560 freetoken

Yet it likely is among the original misogynistic practices. Preferring male children over female is quite old.

Well, I won’t speak for women. But every man with zero kids wants to Have Himself a Boy. Ask that same guy about it after his first kid, a daughter, is born.

566 Gus  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:34:16pm

Well, I think the “Urinal Cake of the Day Award” should go to Mark Williams.

//

567 ~Fianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:35:21pm

re: #306 Sharmuta

It’s certainly not in her best interests to have any contact with a adult man who lured her from her home by taking advantage of her and allowed her to be used by anti-muslim bigots.

And once again, Sharm boils down a stupid political discussion in to one exceptionally cogent sentance.

Can you run for Congress, please?

568 Throbert McGee  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:36:21pm

re: #449 Sharmuta

You have repeatedly called her a cheerleading drama queen. It’s ugly, and I suggest you read Dr. Chesler’s book Woman’s Inhumanity to Woman.

As a woman, I think this girl is confused, and she’s been through something she won’t understand for years, but she’s a victim here. She deserves our sympathy, not name calling.

Okay, just popping in even though I *said* I was going to bed:

(1) To Sharmuta — sheesh, could you infantilize young Ms. Bary any further? One way to ensure that girls don’t mature into women, or that boys don’t mature into men, is by encouraging them to think of themselves as victims of someone else’s machinations, when what you SHOULD be saying (at least in some cases) is something more like “Sheesh, get a grip, you pile of histrionics, you.”

(2) To Dianna — I appreciate your call for not rushing to judgment, but here’s a quote from the pastor (via Time):

But Beverly Lorenz has acknowledged that she talked by phone with Rifqa before the girl ran away. Blake Lorenz, who insists that Rifqa will be killed if she goes home, earlier this month made clear to reporters his Crusades-era belief that this is part of Christianity’s holy struggle against Islam: “These are the last days; these are the end times,” he said, “and this conflict between Islam and Christianity is going to grow greater. This conflict between good and evil is going to grow greater.”

Time editorializes unnecessarily with the “Crusades-era” comment, and the fact that Lorenz is a drama queen in his own right doesn’t automatically mean that he’s also a predator with really creepy ulterior motives; he could be just a superstitious blowhard who believes his own hype. Still, at the very least, he takes his lack of critical thinking skills to mildly scary levels, and unlike the 17-year-old Ms. Bary, he’s old enough to know better, so that’s why some people are astonished by your insistence on not rushing to judgment about him.

569 SeafoodGumbo  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:38:04pm

re: #561 Sharmuta

Did you know Jawa Report has been offering up apologia for Robert Spencer and demanding Charles stop “attacking” him? I personally can’t find Rusty a credible source after such a terrible judgement call and failure to consider the evidence. But that’s just me.

You’re using the exact same argument that critics of LGF used to use against this site when Charles would merely reproduce the words, or show videos of, radical Muslims. LGF would be accused of attacking Muslims when he was only letting their words and actions speak for themselves. If you followed the link to Jawa, you’d see that there are videos on Noor, Columbus, etc. made by others that he’s embedded in the post. You don’t have to consider Jawa a credible source. The video is of the former leader of Noor raving about Jews, 9-11, etc.

570 freetoken  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:39:13pm

I’ve got beaucoup links for the overnight thread… whenever it gets here… Lots of stuff happening on the world stage that gets overtaken in American news/blogs by US social-culture clash issues.

571 SeafoodGumbo  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:39:27pm

re: #553 Danny

Dunno, maybe because the in-depth police investigation revealed no evidence that the parents ever threatened their daughter, whereas numerous parts of the girl’s story were proven to be false. Anyway, you’ve mentioned it now.

I’m curious if they visited or researched her parents’ mosque. Do you know if they did?

572 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:40:46pm

“Don’t listen to the pussy side of you when you make a decision. People gravitate towards being a pussy. Remove the pussy, son.”

573 SeafoodGumbo  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:41:10pm

Re: my long post…her first name is Rifqa, not Bary.

574 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:41:13pm

re: #571 SeafoodGumbo

I don’t know.

575 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:41:45pm

re: #572 Slumbering Behemoth

“Anytime someone sells you food in a sack, it’s not a sack of food, it’s a sack of shit.”

576 ~Fianna  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:41:58pm

OT, but really amusing:
Shots of supid teabaggers

The jokes just write themselves with a lot of those people…

577 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:43:54pm

re: #568 Throbert McGee

One way to ensure that girls don’t mature into women, or that boys don’t mature into men, is by encouraging them to think of themselves as victims of someone else’s machinations, when what you SHOULD be saying (at least in some cases) is something more like “Sheesh, get a grip, you pile of histrionics, you.”

Problem is, the swarm of opportunistic vultures have descended. They’re trying to use the situation as “news” to back their agenda. And thus, we’re talking about it. Ideally, there would be no media coverage of this. Only level-headed people trying to do the right thing. *ahem*

578 freetoken  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:44:27pm

re: #576 ~Fianna

This is a good one!

579 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:44:36pm

re: #568 Throbert McGee

…the fact that Lorenz is a drama queen in his own right doesn’t automatically mean that he’s also a predator with really creepy ulterior motives; he could be just a superstitious blowhard who believes his own hype. Still, at the very least, he takes his lack of critical thinking skills to mildly scary levels, and unlike the 17-year-old Ms. Bary, he’s old enough to know better, so that’s why some people are astonished by your insistence on not rushing to judgment about him.

Throbert, based on what you know, do you believe there is sufficient evidence to arrest the Lorenzes for a crime?

580 Jimmah  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:46:03pm

re: #572 Slumbering Behemoth

“Don’t listen to the pussy side of you when you make a decision. People gravitate towards being a pussy. Remove the pussy, son.”

Speaking of pussies:

Make sure you watch the last one- it’s a peach!

581 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:46:55pm

re: #569 SeafoodGumbo

You’re using the exact same argument that critics of LGF used to use against this site when Charles would merely reproduce the words, or show videos of, radical Muslims. LGF would be accused of attacking Muslims when he was only letting their words and actions speak for themselves.

It would be the same argument if there was any validity to attacks on Charles and LGF. There’s a reason why I no longer trust Jawa, where I once would have in the past. But- fair enough, I suppose.

If you followed the link to Jawa, you’d see that there are videos on Noor, Columbus, etc. made by others that he’s embedded in the post. You don’t have to consider Jawa a credible source. The video is of the former leader of Noor raving about Jews, 9-11, etc.

How long has the family attended this mosque? Have they actually hear this imam?

582 SeafoodGumbo  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:46:58pm

re: #574 Danny

I don’t know.

I wouldn’t be so certain then that the police investigation was “in-depth” if it’s uncertain whether they looked into the radical mosque her parents attend.

583 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:47:58pm

re: #580 Jimmah

Outta my head!

584 Throbert McGee  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:48:33pm

re: #579 Danny

Throbert, based on what you know, do you believe there is sufficient evidence to arrest the Lorenzes for a crime?

No, not at all. (Unless it’s a crime in Florida to be an irresponsible raving jackass, ‘cause he’s guilty as sin on all those points.)

585 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:48:48pm

re: #572 Slumbering Behemoth

“Don’t listen to the pussy side of you when you make a decision. People gravitate towards being a pussy. Remove the pussy, son.”

That sounds like some shit my dad says. But I don’t recognize it. Am I wrong? Or was I tuning it out for a bit?

586 freetoken  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:49:36pm

re: #576 ~Fianna

To prove your true coastal-elite status though, one really needs to appreciate this site.

587 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:50:00pm

re: #585 cliffster

Is your name Justin?

588 SixDegrees  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:50:11pm

re: #233 avspatti

Listen guys … the idea that this girl could be ‘honor-killed’ is not at all farfetched. Have we not read about this kind of thing happening before? Would you want to be the judge who sent her back only to learn she had been murdered by her own family? It’s not worth the chance imo. She is nearly 18, I believe. Let her stay where she is until that birthday, and then, she will have more choices, more opportunities. Even if her parents do not do the evil deed, other relatives could in order to save the family ‘honor’. Uncles, brothers, cousins, etc. Not at all unusual among some groups.

It is not worth the chance.

As a parent: come near my family and try to take my children away based on some religious fantasy, without any evidence, and I will rip your heart out and feed it to you, still beating.

Are we clear on that, you bigoted asshole?

589 SixDegrees  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:51:13pm

re: #545 Banner

Considering the amount of honor killings that take place around the world, and even here in America, I wouldn’t send her home. She wants to leave home, and when she’s 18 she’d leave home anyway if her father does not kill her.

And if her father did kill her, then what? He goes to jail for a few years? That does her a lot of good, doesn’t it?

The father’s religion has a history of killing converts. Honor killings are rather common today sadly. If those things were rare it would be one thing. However they’re not. What does the least harm here is to emancipate the minor and not send her home.

See my post, above. Bigoted retard.

590 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:51:19pm

re: #582 SeafoodGumbo

Just reiterating what news accounts are saying. Never said I was “so certain.”

591 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:51:34pm

re: #582 SeafoodGumbo
Just because we don’t know, does not mean it wasn’t looked into. Moreover, there is no proof they actually belong to that mosque. Their daughter is the only one we have heard that from. ..and we already have reason to doubt the veracity of her statements vis a vis her chearleader photo.

592 SeafoodGumbo  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:51:52pm

re: #581 Sharmuta

How long has the family attended this mosque? Have they actually hear this imam?

I have no idea how long they’ve attended the mosque, but they attend it now and this is who leads the mosque:

The leader of the mosque, Dr. Hany Saqr, was previously an imam for another area mosque, the Omar Ibn El Khattab mosque at the same time the largest known Al Qaeda cell in the U.S. since 9/11 was operating out of the mosque with Christopher Paul, Iyman Faris and Somali Nuradin Abdi,” the document read. “Additionally, Dr. Saqr was identified in exhibits submitted by the Department of Justice in a recent terrorism finance trial in Texas as being one of the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood in North America an international organization responsible for birthing virtually every Islamic terrorist organization in the world, including Al Qaeda.”

That seems quite pertinent to the discussion.

593 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:52:05pm

re: #584 Throbert McGee

No, not at all. (Unless it’s a crime in Florida to be an irresponsible raving jackass, ‘cause he’s guilty as sin on all those points.)

If I understood her correctly, that was Dianna’s view also.

594 cliffster  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:54:13pm

re: #587 Slumbering Behemoth

Is your name Justin?

Ah, there it is. Following too many different people, missed it.

It’s just a non-stop steam of lol.

595 SeafoodGumbo  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:54:49pm

re: #590 Danny

Just reiterating what news accounts are saying. Never said I was “so certain.”

You did say that the investigation was “in-depth,” but also that you were unsure whether the mosque had been looked into as part of that investigation. My point is that an in-depth investigation would look into the mosque.

596 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:56:03pm

re: #568 Throbert McGee

You raise a valid point towards me, however- having been a 17 year old girl, I know how well “get a grip” works, and it’s not effective from what I’ve experienced. It could very much be drama on the part of a hormonal teenager mixed with manipulation from an outside adult, and I would lean towards that. However- I got a little defensive towards this girl because of your second point which is the adult should have known better. It’s precisely because she may be over dramatizing that she was in a state to be easily manipulated. Regardless of her state of mind- it’s the adult here who bears the responsibility, imo. Everything for a teenager (of either gender) can be the end of the world. It’s not an open invitation for adults to convince them to flee across 4 states.

597 Danny  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:56:03pm

re: #595 SeafoodGumbo

Possibly. Depends on the facts of the case.

598 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:58:04pm

Ummm. President Obama attended Rev Wright’s services. But he hasn’t called to kill all the jews. I don’t think people should attend churches/synagogues/mosques led by raving extremists. But not all people who do, then follow the most extreme suggestions of their clerics. Just saying.

599 SeafoodGumbo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:04:45am

re: #591 Escaped Hillbilly

Just because we don’t know, does not mean it wasn’t looked into. Moreover, there is no proof they actually belong to that mosque. Their daughter is the only one we have heard that from. ..and we already have reason to doubt the veracity of her statements vis a vis her chearleader photo.

Since her parents have denied threatening her, I’d imagine that they also would have denied attending the radical mosque if they don’t really go there, but I haven’t seen any denials of that.

600 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:05:34am

re: #595 SeafoodGumbo

You did say that the investigation was “in-depth,” but also that you were unsure whether the mosque had been looked into as part of that investigation. My point is that an in-depth investigation would look into the mosque.

Alleged terrorist ties to this mosque would be irrelevant to this case and subject to other agencies and investigations — ongoing FBI investigations, Homeland Security, etc. There would have to be a direct link or greater conspiracy that would tie that to this case and acceptable to the district attorney. The same applies with whatever radical speech may occur within said mosque. Unless there is a direct link to the case it is irrelevant and easily thrown out before the case would even go to trial.

Of course we could ask if there are laws againt speech that includes the promotion of honor killings. The same could be applied to other extremist religious sermons that go against current statutes.

601 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:06:02am

re: #592 SeafoodGumbo

That is worrisome, but it still doesn’t change the facts in this case, which show Ms. Bary was dishonest with investigators about quite a bit.

602 Throbert McGee  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:07:51am

re: #596 Sharmuta

Upding for that.

And now the Benedryl is kicking in, so g’nite for real.

603 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:08:24am

Good night, Throbert. :)

604 Jack Burton  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:11:37am

re: #602 Throbert McGee

Upding for that.

And now the Benedryl is kicking in, so g’nite for real.

The most evil of all OTC meds. I made the mistake of taking 2 benedryl pills for a bad allergy attack once… once.

I slept for 27 hours. I do vaguely remember waking up in a haze in the middle of it to go to the restroom though. When I finally woke up and was conscious, I had no idea what day it was.

605 SeafoodGumbo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:17:53am

re: #600 Gus 802

Alleged terrorist ties to this mosque would be irrelevant to this case and subject to other agencies and investigations — ongoing FBI investigations, Homeland Security, etc. There would have to be a direct link or greater conspiracy that would tie that to this case and acceptable to the district attorney. The same applies with whatever radical speech may occur within said mosque. Unless there is a direct link to the case it is irrelevant and easily thrown out before the case would even go to trial.

Of course we could ask if there are laws againt speech that includes the promotion of honor killings. The same could be applied to other extremist religious sermons that go against current statutes.

I would think that “alleged terrorist ties to this mosque” would be highly relevant to this case. I’m not expert on child custody and that stuff, but it does seem like parents’ habits, associations, and behaviors all matter. If a parent is a junky or beats the kid - it matters. If a woman is a prostitute and has all manner of johns over - it matters. In the same way, if parents attend a radical mosque that preaches hatred and has been associated with terrorism numerous times, I don’t know how you can say that wouldn’t be relevant to a girl’s claims that she has been threatened with an honor killing. Doesn’t it seem much more likely that a person who attends a radical mosque would threaten that than someone who attends a more benign mosque or a Catholic church? That just seems like common sense.

606 Escaped Hillbilly  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:20:33am

re: #599 SeafoodGumbo
I haven’t denied being a radical extremist either. ;-)
Really, just because you have not seen a denial on their part, that means it must be true? Do you know of any interviews etc. where they were asked about it? The social workers may have quickly dismissed the concern with a simple answer from him and not bothered to include it in the report…or they may have dismissed it out of hand from their own ignorance…or…
My only point was, we can’t start arguing how important the mosque’s teachings may have been on the family without even knowing they actually ever attended that mosque. So if you have some more info on the matter, I would appreciate being able to read it first hand. We get so little news here.

607 SeafoodGumbo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:22:04am

re: #601 Sharmuta

That is worrisome, but it still doesn’t change the facts in this case, which show Ms. Bary was dishonest with investigators about quite a bit.

Maybe you’re read a lot on this case; I haven’t. But, from this article at least, the only thing I see that she was maybe dishonest about is the cheerleader thing.

Maybe she’s lying about the cheerleader thing in an attempt to bolster a true story that she doesn’t think is believable enough. Maybe her parents got a picture out of a yearbook and put it in a frame knowing that it would make them look “normal.” Maybe she’s just lying about everything. I don’t know.

What are the other things she’s been dishonest about?

I have to go to sleep, but I’ll check back after work tomorrow…

608 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:22:20am

re: #605 SeafoodGumbo

I would think that “alleged terrorist ties to this mosque” would be highly relevant to this case. I’m not expert on child custody and that stuff, but it does seem like parents’ habits, associations, and behaviors all matter. If a parent is a junky or beats the kid - it matters. If a woman is a prostitute and has all manner of johns over - it matters. In the same way, if parents attend a radical mosque that preaches hatred and has been associated with terrorism numerous times, I don’t know how you can say that wouldn’t be relevant to a girl’s claims that she has been threatened with an honor killing. Doesn’t it seem much more likely that a person who attends a radical mosque would threaten that than someone who attends a more benign mosque or a Catholic church? That just seems like common sense.

Alleged. There would require evidence not allegations. You can’t just say “look they have terrorist ties it’s on Jawa Report.” Not only would you need evidence it would have to relevant to the case prior to a hearing. Short of that it would require a grand jury probe to find such evidence and ties to a conspiracy. Even if terrorist activity were to be found if it had no ties to the case it would still be irrelevant to the case.

609 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:22:53am

Late to the party I am sure…

But my 2 cents, regardless the evidence, when you belong to a religion that calls for your death if you switch teams…it’s best to err on the side of caution. But that’s just me…

610 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:25:46am

re: #607 SeafoodGumbo

Here’s a link I provided earlier:

[Link: wdbo.com…]

If you come back, I would look for the other comments where I linked to more reports on this case, the the pastor hiding her for two+ weeks before alerting authorities.

611 Escaped Hillbilly  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:26:59am

I’m all for letting this girl decide to stay in foster care. I moved out when I was 16. The parents already agreed to let her stay in foster care AND get family counseling. I just don’t think we should paint her parents as religious fanatics and potential murderers without some evidence.

612 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:28:45am

If I would have been the judge I would have take Rifqa back to Ohio but in a foster home.* I would also require that the parents seek family counseling including the child.* I would also levy a fine against “Global Revolution Church” for harboring a minor without alerting the authorities. At the same time I would have instituted a gag and restraining order against Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller.

*Some of which will take place.

613 SeafoodGumbo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:30:38am

re: #606 Escaped Hillbilly

I’ll see if I can find something tomorrow proving that her family goes to the mosque. For now, there are logs to be sawed and sheep to be counted…

614 Escaped Hillbilly  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:36:22am

re: #613 SeafoodGumbo
thanks! Goodnight

615 theheat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:04:18am

Gee, can’t imagine any reason her parents, Muslim or otherwise, might be upset their teenage daughter decided to run off with a predatory cult leader she met on the freaking internet.

Nossir.

//

616 Seax  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:47:10am

A bit off topic but the Chinese ‘one baby’ policy thing struck a chord.
A good friend (western guy) married this lovely Chinese girl.
This girl has three sisters ( huh ?).Anyway I finally got out
my friend how his father in law managed that one in main land China.
He mentioned the copious waving of little red books - owning multi storied
buildings and something about going to a big party ( Ok he’s got a weird sense of humour).When the penny finally dropped I just shut up.
Seems that some are more equal than others…
Ne hao ma?

617 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:26:40am
618 ryannon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:32:26am

re: #374 Charles

Here’s another fanatic who’s trying to capitalize on Rifqa Bary, Pastor Steve Hill. You won’t believe this one.


[Video]


Is this the guy who does Eric Cartman’s voice in South Park?

619 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:41:24am

I’m late to the party but…

I wonder if any girls who are really in danger of being abused or killed for the sake of their family’s “honor” will now be left to the wolves by gunshy DFCS workers because this preacher decided to make a public spectacle of this case.

620 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:16:03am
621 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:27:35am

re: #620 Mannlicher

Mannlicher
Karma: 1
Registered since: Sep 1, 2007 at 4:54 pm
(Logged in)

No. of comments posted: 10
No. of links posted: 0

Let me take care of that stray Karma before you flounce off.

Buh Bye!

622 Boondock St. Bender  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:34:07am

re: #620 Mannlicher

God forbid one should use evidence to determine if a crime was commited or even attempted…

I wonder if these characters realise we’re laughing at them?

623 avspatti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 7:09:18am

re: #341 avspatti

I don’t know that the family is a threat, but I do believe it is a possibility. Yes, because they are Muslim since rejecting Islam is punishable by death. You don’t see that happening in Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, do you? The religion itself teaches that leaving Islam is deserving of death. All religions are NOT equally benign regardless of what we may wish.

For my entirely calm post, I got 3 down dings. Some of you need to do some more research on Islam with regard to punishment for apostasy. I only reported the truth which doesn’t seem to be acceptable here on this topic.

624 avspatti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 7:15:46am

re: #623 avspatti

For my entirely calm post, I got 3 down dings. Some of you need to do some more research on Islam with regard to punishment for apostasy. I only reported the truth which doesn’t seem to be acceptable here on this topic.

Need to point out that this ‘punishment’ has not just happened in the Middle East or Afghanistan but in Europe and yes, here in the United States. Research ‘honor killings’ and see for yourselves. In some cases, the girl has been sent back to her family since nobody would believe that she was in danger. It may not be politically correct to point this out, but it is the truth nonetheless.

625 non obama mama  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 7:22:00am

re: #105 marjoriemoon

I’ll tell her about what or rather who, is a no-brainer.

We’re talking about a teenage girl who is still a minor and the church has no business interfering without the parents consent. Do I have that wrong? I wonder if the parents could sue for kidnapping.

From what I read, the girl left on her own. That is not kidnapping, and the parents cannot sue. She is not being held against her will.

My own take is that if the girl wanted to be free from her parents so badly, she could have easily filed for emancipation. She is 17, not 7. I do not understand why that aspect of the case was never mentioned.

626 medaura18586  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 7:24:12am

This teenage girl sure sounds like a brat.

627 tjseagrove  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 7:28:17am

re: #119 Charles

There’s no rush to get to the evolution posts. But I do have a good one lined up.

This whole situation was “created” in fear and quickly “evolved” into hysteria.

628 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 7:45:07am

re: #625 non obama mama

From what I read, the girl left on her own. That is not kidnapping, and the parents cannot sue. She is not being held against her will.

My own take is that if the girl wanted to be free from her parents so badly, she could have easily filed for emancipation. She is 17, not 7. I do not understand why that aspect of the case was never mentioned.

Ohio does not have an emancipation statute, so she could not have filed for such. Not every state has such statutes.

629 SFGoth  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 7:46:40am

This is all I have to say on this. DeShaney v. Winnebago County.

630 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 7:48:46am

re: #623 avspatti

I do understand how Islam tends to regard apostasy, but that still does not mean that she is in danger. I’d argue in favor supervision and counseling for her and her family. However, I would also prohibit her parents from taking her out of the US, as a precaution.

631 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 7:49:10am

re: #629 SFGoth

This is all I have to say on this. DeShaney v. Winnebago County.

What was that case about?

632 medaura18586  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 7:49:48am

re: #45 Charles

The “Global Revolution Church” is extremely creepy. They’re End Times fanatics.



9. We believe Israel is the prophetic key to the return of Jesus Christ.

‘Nuf said.

/Sighs

633 SFGoth  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 7:52:37am

re: #631 Dark_Falcon

What was that case about?

You have access to the internet, don’t you? My coffee hasn’t kicked in sufficiently to pull the details out of the cobwebs. It’s probably been wiki’d.

634 medaura18586  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 7:57:19am

re: #68 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #45 Charles

Believe me, most Israelis would love it, just love it if everyone would just leave them alone…

No can do.

They’re the vessel to the coming of the Messiah,.. the key to Judgment Day. They better embrace their destiny.

/

635 medaura18586  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 8:16:21am

re: #179 SanFranciscoZionist

This is where all this ‘taqqiyah is a way of life in Islam’ thinking you see on lots of sites get us. People convince themselves that Muslims are incapable of decency, and that anything they say is false. And yes, it’s beyond disgusting.

And what means of falsifiability are there left in such a framework? If a Muslim is polite, friendly, and decent, s/he must be acting that way to deceive us. ‘Cause, you know,.. ‘taqqiyah. What can people from that background do to convince us they’re genuinely decent? Nothing. No standard of proof remains.

636 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 8:31:23am

re: #14 Sharmuta

It isn’t entirely correct to say that alcohol and fundamentalism don’t mix. IIRC, some of the 9/11 hijackers went to strip clubs and got snockered, shortly before the attacks.

Glad to see that it looks like there no fire under the smoke in this girl’s case, though.

637 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 8:33:58am

re: #630 Dark_Falcon

I do understand how Islam tends to regard apostasy, but that still does not mean that she is in danger. I’d argue in favor supervision and counseling for her and her family. However, I would also prohibit her parents from taking her out of the US, as a precaution.

On what charge? That they are lying, throat-slitting Muslims, who will do away with their apostate daughter as soon as no one’s looking? Then we’re right back where we started, when this story broke.

638 erraticsphinx  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 8:55:43am

I think the current course of action being taken seems appropriate, putting her in foster care while the family goes through some couseling.

As long as she’s far away from this “church”.

639 avspatti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 9:41:36am

re: #630 Dark_Falcon

I do understand how Islam tends to regard apostasy, but that still does not mean that she is in danger. I’d argue in favor supervision and counseling for her and her family. However, I would also prohibit her parents from taking her out of the US, as a precaution.

That is an excellent idea. The fact is that we don’t know if anyone will kill her, but it is a possibility as the penalty for apostacy is death in Islam. This is not a theoretical discussion; an individual’s life MAY depend on the decisions made.

640 scrubjay  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 9:49:04am

Rifqa did say that her father threatened to kill her if she had Jesus in her heart. I would err on the side of caution an allow her to stay in a foster home until she turns 18. She is less than a year from the age of majority. I didn’t really expect that her father would confirm to law enforcement that indeed he does intend to kill her.

641 Captain Faris  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 10:08:08am

Charles,
In my tradition of posting on old threads, I’d like to support your current campaign to highlight hysterical missives from all ideological directions.

Regarding the Global Revolution Church, however, and the question of whether or not they are “radicals”, I’d like to point out that most of “us” believers in a “God who cares” would qualify as radicals and possibly crazy by those standards. I’m not saying that these large “movement” style groups aren’t even more radical—many are. In fact “we” ourselves try to take a stand against such groups when the craziness jumps the rails of common sense and good citizenship.

I support your apparent goal of calling out and spotlighting groups and individuals who are even borderline sociopaths. But my main point in posting on LFG has been that at least “some” of us believers are the kind of people you would welcome as next-door neighbors and coworkers.

My proof is known only by my actual neighbors and coworkers and clients, of course.

642 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 10:19:42am
643 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 10:21:13am
644 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:20:37pm

re: #642 GeoffP

Wasted another composition in reply to the deletable. *sigh*

645 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:16:52pm
646 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:24:16pm
647 GeoffP  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:10:06pm

Wow. Someone deleted the post. And here I thought I’d been unoffensive compared to some posts. Let’s try this again, shall we?

The lack of evidence of conventional abuse has nothing to do with the possibility of Rifka Bary being killed in an honour killing. The statement, thereby, that no evidence of abuse was detected is meaningless in this context at best, and damaging at worst: it provokes the conclusion among the uninitiated that the threat to her is nil, when in point of fact this is unknown. The only way in which such a farcical point of investigation could have mattered is if Mr. Bary had leaped up, brandished a knife, and proclaimed his eagerness to slit the throats of little Christian kids. So: unhelpful. Unlikely.

Secondly, the investigation was “supervised” by no less than CAIR, itself. Well, what better choice to mediate a discussion of islamic religious supremacism than an islamic supremacist organization? Why, it fits perfectly when you think about it.

I wonder if anyone had this kind of talk when the Said girls were killed. Nah. Just my aimless suspicions, I guess.

GeoffP

648 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:15:32pm

re: #647 GeoffP

It’s frankly un-American to convict this family of wanting to kill their own daughter on no more evidence than because they are Muslims. It’s outright bigotry, in fact.

CAIR was present at the interviews of the Bary family. I’m no fan of CAIR at all, as I think should be obvious. But saying they “supervised” the investigation is a ridiculous exaggeration.

649 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:17:56pm

re: #599 SeafoodGumbo

Since her parents have denied threatening her, I’d imagine that they also would have denied attending the radical mosque if they don’t really go there, but I haven’t seen any denials of that.

Yes, if we assume they lied about one thing, we can assume they lied about everything else. The question is, why are you assuming they’re lying?

650 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:22:08pm

re: #649 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, if we assume they lied about one thing, we can assume they lied about everything else. The question is, why are you assuming they’re lying?

Don’t you see? They denied it! That’s proof they’re lying! And the fact that the Florida Dept. of Law Enforcement found no evidence … why, that’s evidence that they’re hiding something!

651 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:30:55pm

re: #650 Charles

Don’t you see? They denied it! That’s proof they’re lying! And the fact that the Florida Dept. of Law Enforcement found no evidence … why, that’s evidence that they’re hiding something!

Actually, I think I misunderstood the original post, now that I reread it. I’m confused.

652 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:44:00pm
653 Hector1980  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:45:42pm

re: #89 Charles

The later parts of the sentence are redundant.

By the way, for someone who throws a hissing fit every time a lunatic like Geert Wilders isn’t allowed to speak somewhere, she has a very low threshold for Free Speech. She has banned me twice from her site, and not for trolling (i.e. insults, rudeness, etc) but for merely posting links that disprove the lies she spread.

654 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 8:03:05pm
655 SeafoodGumbo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 8:57:50pm

Charles,

Why’d you delete my post in 543?

656 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 9:25:20pm

Maybe you didn’t notice, but the site you linked to is now calling me ugly names and supporting the Spencer crowd. If you link to them again, it will be deleted again.

657 SeafoodGumbo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 9:50:12pm

re: #656 Charles

Maybe you didn’t notice, but the site you linked to is now calling me ugly names and supporting the Spencer crowd. If you link to them again, it will be deleted again.

No, I haven’t noticed. It was pointed out to me in this thread that you and Jawa are on the outs, but you shouldn’t assume that everyone knows all of the sites that are not allowed anymore. I don’t know why you would assume bad intentions (“If you link to them again, it will be deleted again.”) on the part of someone who’s been coming to your site since 2001. You seem to be changing.

658 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 9:52:22pm

re: #657 SeafoodGumbo

No, I haven’t noticed. It was pointed out to me in this thread that you and Jawa are on the outs, but you shouldn’t assume that everyone knows all of the sites that are not allowed anymore. I don’t know why you would assume bad intentions (“If you link to them again, it will be deleted again.”) on the part of someone who’s been coming to your site since 2001. You seem to be changing.

I don’t assume bad intentions. I’m just telling you that I’m not going to send traffic to a site that supports people like Spencer and Geller.

659 SeafoodGumbo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 10:01:00pm

re: #658 Charles

I don’t assume bad intentions. I’m just telling you that I’m not going to send traffic to a site that supports people like Spencer and Geller.

The way it reads to me is that I would, after now knowing that site isn’t allowed, still link to them again, which I would consider bad intentions. Anyway, we can just leave it at that, I guess.

660 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:58:14pm
661 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 17, 2009 6:36:51am

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