Cleon Skousen: The Crank Who Inspired Glenn Beck

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Here’s an excellent exposé at Salon by Alexander Zaitchik, on one of the main ideological sources for Glenn Beck’s extremist rhetoric — a paleo-right crank connected to the John Birch Society named Cleon Skousen, whose bizarre book (“The 5,000 Year Leap”) Glenn Beck has been relentlessly promoting: Meet the man who changed Glenn Beck’s life.

In reality, however, the so-called 912ers were summoned to D.C. by the man who changed Beck’s life, and that helps explain why the movement is not the nonpartisan lovefest that Beck first sold on air with his trademark tears. Beck has created a massive meet-up for the disaffected, paranoid Palin-ite “death panel” wing of the GOP, those ideologues most susceptible to conspiracy theories and prone to latch on to eccentric distortions of fact in the name of opposing “socialism.” In that, they are true disciples of the late W. Cleon Skousen, Beck’s favorite writer and the author of the bible of the 9/12 movement, “The 5,000 Year Leap.” A once-famous anti-communist “historian,” Skousen was too extreme even for the conservative activists of the Goldwater era, but Glenn Beck has now rescued him from the remainder pile of history, and introduced him to a receptive new audience.

Anyone who has followed Beck will recognize the book’s title. Beck has been furiously promoting “The 5,000 Year Leap” for the past year, a push that peaked in March when he launched the 912 Project. That month, a new edition of “The 5,000 Year Leap,” complete with a laudatory new foreword by none other than Glenn Beck, came out of nowhere to hit No. 1 on Amazon. It remained in the top 15 all summer, holding the No. 1 spot in the government category for months. The book tops Beck’s 912 Project “required reading” list, and is routinely sold at 912 Project meetings where guest speakers often use it as their primary source material. At one 912 meet-up I attended in Florida, copies were stacked high on a table against the back wall, available for the 912 nice price of $15. “Don’t bother trying to get it at the library,” one 912er told me. “The wait list is 40 deep.”

What has Beck been pushing on his legions? “Leap,” first published in 1981, is a heavily illustrated and factually challenged attempt to explain American history through an unspoken lens of Mormon theology. As such, it is an early entry in the ongoing attempt by the religious right to rewrite history. Fundamentalists want to define the United States as a Christian nation rather than a secular republic, and recasting the Founding Fathers as devout Christians guided by the Bible rather than deists inspired by the French and English philosophers. “Leap” argues that the U.S. Constitution is a godly document above all else, based on natural law, and owes more to the Old and New Testaments than to the secular and radical spirit of the Enlightenment. It lists 28 fundamental beliefs — based on the sayings and writings of Moses, Jesus, Cicero, John Locke, Montesquieu and Adam Smith — that Skousen says have resulted in more God-directed progress than was achieved in the previous 5,000 years of every other civilization combined. The book reads exactly like what it was until Glenn Beck dragged it out of Mormon obscurity: a textbook full of aggressively selective quotations intended for conservative religious schools like Utah’s George Wythe University, where it has been part of the core freshman curriculum for decades (and where Beck spoke at this year’s annual fundraiser).

But more interesting than the contents of “The 5,000 Year Leap,” and more revealing for what it says about 912ers and the Glenn Beck Nation, is the book’s author. W. Cleon Skousen was not a historian so much as a player in the history of the American far right; less a scholar of the republic than a threat to it. At least, that was the judgment of J. Edgar Hoover’s FBI, which maintained a file on Skousen for years that eventually totaled some 2,000 pages. Before he died in 2006 at the age of 92, Skousen’s own Mormon church publicly distanced itself from the foundation that Skousen founded and that has published previous editions of “The 5,000 Year Leap.”

As Beck knows, to focus solely on “The 5,000 Year Leap” is to sell the author short. When he died in 2006 at the age of 92, Skousen had authored more than a dozen books and pamphlets on the Red Menace, New World Order conspiracy, Christian child rearing, and Mormon end-times prophecy. It is a body of work that does much to explain Glenn Beck’s bizarre conspiratorial mash-up of recent months, which decries a new darkness at noon and finds strange symbols carefully coded in the retired lobby art of Rockefeller Center. It also suggests that the modern base of the Republican Party is headed to a very strange place.

Read the whole thing; there’s much more. This is very disturbing stuff, and it explains a lot about Beck’s demagoguery.

Also see

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533 comments
1 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:27:56am
In 1981, Skousen published "The 5,000 Year Leap," the book for which, thanks to Beck, he is now best known. But it wasn't that Skousen book that made the biggest headline in the 1980s. Toward the end of Reagan's second term, Skousen became the center of a minor controversy when state legislators in California approved the official use of another of his books, the 1982 history text "The Making of America." Besides bursting with factual errors, Skousen's book characterized African-American children as "pickaninnies" and described American slave owners as the "worst victims" of the slavery system. Quoting the historian Fred Albert Shannon, "The Making of America" explained that "[slave] gangs in transit were usually a cheerful lot, though the presence of a number of the more vicious type sometimes made it necessary for them all to go in chains."

This is a book that Glenn Beck is encouraging his fans to read today. Amazing.

2 Racer X  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:28:35am

I got flounce

3 KernelPanic  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:28:46am

Now I'm gonna have to get that book (ideally on kindle) just to see if it's really as weird as they say it is. Oddball Mormon revisionism here I come!

4 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:28:53am

Dangerous crazy stuff

5 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:28:57am

Hard core Rockefeller hater:

Skousen spoke against communism, and against David Rockefeller[citation needed]. He linked super-capitalists to their supposed enemies, the world communist leaders.

Lest we forget one of Beck's more over the top demonizations:

Glenn Beck Does the Rockefeller Boogie

6 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:29:03am

re: #2 Racer X

I got flounce

What's the over/under on this thread?

7 Racer X  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:29:04am

re: #2 Racer X

I got flounce

... in under 30 comments.

PIFW

8 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:29:30am

Watch out Charles, if you get Beck's attention, he'll spread some rumors about you, and call for his viewers to help.

9 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:29:50am

re: #7 Racer X

... in under 30 comments.

PIFW

I'll say between 50 and 100

10 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:30:10am

re: #7 Racer X

... in under 30 comments.

PIFW

Sure it'll be that soon? I'm suspecting within the first 60.

11 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:30:18am

Seriously racist as well:

In 1981, Skousen published "The 5,000 Year Leap," the book for which, thanks to Beck, he is now best known. But it wasn't that Skousen book that made the biggest headline in the 1980s. Toward the end of Reagan's second term, Skousen became the center of a minor controversy when state legislators in California approved the official use of another of his books, the 1982 history text "The Making of America." Besides bursting with factual errors, Skousen's book characterized African-American children as "pickaninnies" and described American slave owners as the "worst victims" of the slavery system. Quoting the historian Fred Albert Shannon, "The Making of America" explained that "[slave] gangs in transit were usually a cheerful lot, though the presence of a number of the more vicious type sometimes made it necessary for them all to go in chains."

12 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:30:25am

So Beck going after ACORN is a bad thing? Gotcha!

13 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:30:45am

So, a guy that was left on the dustbin of the conservative movement has been resurrected by Beck as the supposed savior of the party. Sheesh. There was a reason Skousen was discarded.

Oh, and while we're at it - this looks like it would hit at a possible Romney run in 2012 because of the positions he takes re: Mormons.

14 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:31:24am
Beck asked readers of "The Real America" to ponder Skousen's list, then "check off" those goals already achieved by America's new enemies within. Replacing communists in Beck's view: "liberals, special-interest groups, [and] the ACLU."

This explains the odd fixation he has on obscure and unimportant groups like ACORN. Since Skousen's Soviet Union is now gone Beck has to invent new enemies to make the philosophy work.

15 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:32:17am

re: #12 Buckeye Nation

See #14. He's creating imaginary enemies.

16 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:32:21am

re: #12 Buckeye Nation

Beck going after ACORN isn't a bad thing. Promoting racists and haters is. See the difference?

I'm going after ACORN with my postings on the subject, but I'm not promoting a hater like Skousen. That's the difference.

17 Racer X  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:32:45am

re: #10 Honorary Yooper

Sure it'll be that soon? I'm suspecting within the first 60.

Do I win?

Who had under 13?

18 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:32:55am

re: #12 Buckeye Nation

Oh, and nice strawman. Want a hat to go along with that?

19 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:32:59am

Who cares that taxpayers are funding a corrupt organization. Glen Beck is craaazy.

20 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:32:59am

re: #13 lawhawk

Oh, and while we're at it - this looks like it would hit at a possible Romney run in 2012 because of the positions he takes re: Mormons.


Hmmm, I hadn't considered that.

21 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:33:22am

re: #17 Racer X

Do I win?

Who had under 13?

He's not banned yet.

22 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:33:40am

re: #14 Killgore Trout

This explains the odd fixation he has on obscure and unimportant groups like ACORN. Since Skousen's Soviet Union is now gone Beck has to invent new enemies to make the philosophy work.

I think Beck is a nutter and hope he flames out like a super nova one night. However, I have been saying ACORN is dirty long before Beck started barking about it. And, so were most Republicans.

23 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:33:44am

re: #20 Killgore Trout

Hmmm, I hadn't considered that.

Ran across my mind. You know the Dem attack dogs will run with it.

24 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:33:49am

The smell of flounce is in the air.

25 Alexander  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:34:12am

Oh, my...

Take a look at this picture. Man, that's sure a lotta racists!

26 Racer X  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:34:34am

re: #21 Honorary Yooper

I'm sticking with under 30.

27 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:34:37am

re: #13 lawhawk

So, a guy that was left on the dustbin of the conservative movement has been resurrected by Beck as the supposed savior of the party. Sheesh. There was a reason Skousen was discarded.

Oh, and while we're at it - this looks like it would hit at a possible Romney run in 2012 because of the positions he takes re: Mormons.

Is that hint or hit? Serious question.

28 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:34:51am

re: #24 Charles

The smell of flounce is in the air.

Feed him some line, I got him to 50 before we pop it

29 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:34:59am

re: #18 lawhawk

Yeah, the problem is no one was going after ACORN until Beck broke these stories. He might be unhinged, but so is Olby. And I don't see daily threads bashing Olby here at LGF.

30 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:35:04am

re: #22 Desert Dog

I think Beck is a nutter and hope he flames out like a super nova one night. However, I have been saying ACORN is dirty long before Beck started barking about it. And, so were most Republicans.

As I've said before; what I hate most about Glenn Beck is when he's right.

(Which does not excuse the ample amounts of sheer lunacy chaff surrounding his occasional grain of wheat.)

31 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:35:20am

re: #26 Racer X

I'm sticking with under 30.

This is past #30.

32 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:35:21am

re: #12 Buckeye Nation

So Beck going after ACORN is a bad thing? Gotcha!

If you want a serious expose on something, it's usually better to have a serious person manning the helm.

33 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:35:38am

re: #22 Desert Dog

I know they are a favorite target of conservatives but they really aren't important to anything one way or the other. I see this acorn obsession as a distraction and a waste of energy. I would rather conservatives direct their energy to more important issues.

34 jaunte  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:35:47am

re: #11 Charles

Seriously racist as well:

Grotesque.

35 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:35:47am

re: #19 Buckeye Nation

Who cares that taxpayers are funding a corrupt organization. Glen Beck is craaazy.

If this was Olbermann- you'd have a different tune, is my guess.

36 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:35:50am

re: #25 Alexander

Oh, my...

Take a look at this picture. Man, that's sure a lotta racists!

Yep, looks about 100,000.

37 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:36:06am

re: #29 Buckeye Nation

Yeah, the problem is no one was going after ACORN until Beck broke these stories. He might be unhinged, but so is Olby. And I don't see daily threads bashing Olby here at LGF.

Wow- did I call it or what?

38 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:36:20am

re: #28 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Feed him some line, I got him to 50 before we pop it

Under 50, please. I got him before 60, but I'll have it all to myself if it's under 50. ;-)

39 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:36:21am

re: #3 KernelPanic

Now I'm gonna have to get that book (ideally on kindle) just to see if it's really as weird as they say it is. Oddball Mormon revisionism here I come!

Do this crazy Mormon a favor and please distinguish between Mormon Theology and belief (Not Cleon Skousenism) and Cleon Skausen's beliefs (Not tennants of the Latter-day Saints) while discussing Glenn Beck (Mormon convert - not Mormon prophet).

We have a few Skousen fans in every congregation. Their theories of sekrit communist takeovers and new world order are generally received with some bemused scepticism. All in all no more in numbers than your average crazy uncle quotient in any family/synagogue/church.

40 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:36:23am

re: #33 Killgore Trout

I know they are a favorite target of conservatives but they really aren't important to anything one way or the other. I see this acorn obsession as a distraction and a waste of energy. I would rather conservatives direct their energy to more important issues.

Nothing to see here...move along...

41 Danny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:37:23am

re: #14 Killgore Trout

This explains the odd fixation he has on obscure and unimportant groups like ACORN..

ACORN? What's that?

/

42 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:37:26am

re: #29 Buckeye Nation

Yeah, the problem is no one was going after ACORN until Beck broke these stories. He might be unhinged, but so is Olby. And I don't see daily threads bashing Olby here at LGF.

Check last year during the election. When was the last time Olby sponsored, held and helped rally a nationwide political movement?

43 Spider Mensch  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:37:29am

re: #24 Charles

The smell of flounce is in the air.

is that it?..I thought I heard someone step on a duck...

44 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:37:47am

re: #37 Sharmuta

Yeah and Olby is the voice of reason.

45 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:38:11am

re: #40 Desert Dog

Nothing to see here...move along...

These aren't the vote fraud 'droids you're looking for...

46 FightingBack  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:38:15am

re: #24 Charles

The smell of flounce is in the air.

Lovely word. Reminds of the Restoration England, with the ruffled shirts.

47 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:38:34am

re: #12 Buckeye Nation

So Beck going after ACORN is a bad thing? Gotcha!

Yes, it is a terrible thing, it makes any legitimate critisism problematic.

48 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:38:41am

re: #41 Danny

ACORN? What's that?

/

They're nuts.

49 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:38:43am

re: #44 Buckeye Nation

Yeah and Olby is the voice of reason.

Who is saying that except your strawman?

50 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:38:44am

re: #27 EmmmieG

It would hit - I think Beck's using it as a preparatory attack against a presumptive run by Romney in 2012.

51 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:38:45am

re: #39 DaddyG

Do this crazy Mormon a favor and please distinguish between Mormon Theology and belief (Not Cleon Skousenism) and Cleon Skausen's beliefs (Not tennants of the Latter-day Saints) while discussing Glenn Beck (Mormon convert - not Mormon prophet).

We have a few Skousen fans in every congregation. Their theories of sekrit communist takeovers and new world order are generally received with some bemused scepticism. All in all no more in numbers than your average crazy uncle quotient in any family/synagogue/church.

My Dad sat next to one for a bit at a meeting or a trip or something. There's a few in every group.

We had one Skousen book in our house growing up. One of the religious ones.* Mom didn't buy any more because "he got kinda weird after that."

*Don't ask why they didn't throw it away. They don't throw anything away. At least there are seven of us to clean out the house when they die. Anybody want some 30 year-old manhandled National Geographics?

52 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:38:54am

This stuff Beck is on is fringe, but truth converges toward a center & we badly need a center party in the USA.

53 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:39:19am

re: #13 lawhawk

Oh, and while we're at it - this looks like it would hit at a possible Romney run in 2012 because of the positions he takes re: Mormons.

I doubt Romney could be tarred with this stuff in any serious way. Skousen is a Mormon who wrote about politics not a serious source of LDS beliefs. Romney likely doesn't have a history with him or his associates other than a common ancestor somewhere who crossed the plains with Brigham Young ...or maybe a couple of great grandmas who shared a husband =8-o

54 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:39:35am

re: #50 lawhawk

It would hit - I think Beck's using it as a preparatory attack against a presumptive run by Romney in 2012.

Why would Beck be against Romney?

55 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:39:37am

re: #52 Ojoe

This stuff Beck is on is fringe, but truth converges toward a center & we badly need a center party in the USA.

Tough to do in a federal republic...

56 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:39:47am

My beef with this article...

As such, it is an early entry in the ongoing attempt by the religious right to rewrite history.

Since when has 'mormonism' had any effect on the 'religious right'?

We, I repeat, WE, MORMONS, are the biggest 'Hiss and By word' to the 'Religious Right'.

But other than that...it's factually accurate...

57 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:39:59am

re: #46 FightingBack

Lovely word. Reminds of the Restoration England, with the ruffled shirts.

"But I don't wanna be a pirate!"

-Jerry Seinfeld

58 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:40:12am

re: #49 Sharmuta

For someone who 'hates' cable news you seem to stick up for Olby. Why?

59 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:40:15am

re: #54 EmmmieG

Why would Beck be against Romney?

Romney is sane.

60 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:40:28am

re: #42 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Check last year during the election. When was the last time Olby sponsored, held and helped rally a nationwide political movement?

He tried to drum up interest in the Self-Absorbed Ego Maniac Douchebags for Obama movement, but none of them could be bothered, so he stayed home, the rest of them stayed home too.

61 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:40:45am

re: #54 EmmmieG

Why would Beck be against Romney?

Because Romney's sane?

62 Flyovercountry  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:40:47am

For anyone defending Beck, just remember that this is the man who taught us to be afraid of, "Oligarhy." Of course, his explanation of, "Oligarhy," was the best five minute of pshchotic break from reality ever captured on T.V.

63 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:40:58am

re: #12 Buckeye Nation

So Beck going after ACORN is a bad thing? Gotcha!

Yes, it's a bad thing. Beck turns everything he touches into Krazy Glue, automatically making rational people suspicous of any cause he decides to embrace.

64 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:41:15am

re: #61 Occasional Reader

Because Romney's sane?

GMTA

65 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:41:40am

re: #29 Buckeye Nation

No one was going after ACORN? Am I chopped liver? I was going after ACORN last year all through the election because of their questionable election tactics, voter registration fraud, and other sundry issues that others were cataloging long before Beck opened his yapper a few weeks ago.

66 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:41:57am

re: #57 Occasional Reader

“'But I don’t want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can’t help that,' said the Cat. 'We’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.'
'How do you know I’m mad?' said Alice.
'You must be,” said the Cat. 'or you wouldn’t have come here.'”

67 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:41:57am

re: #58 Buckeye Nation

For someone who 'hates' cable news you seem to stick up for Olby. Why?

There's no love for him here. And pointing out your double standard isn't a defense of the man.

68 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:41:58am

re: #56 Oh no...Sand People!

I agree, that line caught my attention, too. It's sloppy journalism, at best.

69 jaunte  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:42:04am

re: #58 Buckeye Nation

For someone who 'hates' cable news you seem to stick up for Olby. Why?

Where in the world are you getting that impression?

70 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:42:24am

re: #63 Shiplord Kirel

Okay. So your logic is this: Who cares is ACORN workers are indifferent about the underage sex trade, Beck reported it.

71 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:42:54am

Call me crazy, but weren't more than a few question being asked about ACORN as far back as the 2006 election, and those were actual criminal investigations.

72 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:43:17am

re: #62 Flyovercountry

For anyone defending Beck, just remember that this is the man who taught us to be afraid of, "Oligarhy." Of course, his explanation of, "Oligarhy," was the best five minute of pshchotic break from reality ever captured on T.V.

It's up there, but my vote goes to his exposition of Mussolini's chariot and its symbolic role in Obama's subversion of youth.

73 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:43:18am

re: #66 Ojoe

[Link: snltranscripts.jt.org...]

74 quickslow87  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:43:18am

re: #39 DaddyG

Do this crazy Mormon a favor and please distinguish between Mormon Theology and belief (Not Cleon Skousenism) and Cleon Skausen's beliefs (Not tennants of the Latter-day Saints) while discussing Glenn Beck (Mormon convert - not Mormon prophet).

We have a few Skousen fans in every congregation. Their theories of sekrit communist takeovers and new world order are generally received with some bemused scepticism. All in all no more in numbers than your average crazy uncle quotient in any family/synagogue/church.

I concur. From what I've read of his religious writings, Cleon Skousen has many strange ideas which should at the very minimum, be taken with a lot of skepticism.

75 J.S.  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:43:35am

The other day, I happened to run across an old episode from South Park...and it was on the topic of Mormonism...(I found it staggering...but, o well, freedom of religion I guess)...

76 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:43:53am

re: #71 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Call me crazy, but weren't more than a few question being asked about ACORN as far back as the 2006 election, and those were actual criminal investigations.

Yes -- and ACORN was actually exonerated in every case in 2006. (People never seem to mention this.)

77 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:44:14am

To put it simply so anyone can understand, the enemy of my enemy can still be bat shit fucking insane.

78 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:44:18am

re: #65 lawhawk

No one was going after ACORN? Am I chopped liver? I was going after ACORN last year all through the election because of their questionable election tactics, voter registration fraud, and other sundry issues that others were cataloging long before Beck opened his yapper a few weeks ago.

I am frustrated that the soft underbelly inloves a college student dressed as a hooker and a made for TV cracker pimp soliciting advice on prostitution rings. More serious issues of fraud will go unnoticed because they don't involve pictures of strutting pundits gone wild.

Sigh. I guess they took down Capone on tax evasion.

79 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:45:19am

re: #73 Mad Al-Jaffee

More MADness.

80 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:45:23am

Cleon is a crank?

Really?

I thought he was GREAT working with Gene Wilder in Blazing Saddles. Too bad he is a Bircher!

< / Emily Latella >

81 Dynomite  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:46:30am

re: #36 Charles

Yep, looks about 100,000.

You can't count. That's obviously 2 million or more. I received the message as such over my tin foil hat!

82 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:46:47am

re: #75 J.S.

The other day, I happened to run across an old episode from South Park...and it was on the topic of Mormonism...(I found it staggering...but, o well, freedom of religion I guess)...


That was funny. Trey and Matt are equal opportunity mockers and I thought they did a good job of parodying our more peculiar beliefs while throwing in some backhanded complements "But the are sooo nice!"

83 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:46:59am

I will say only this about fringes; you can't get rid of them. Buckley did not kill the Birchers-- he only pushed them aside. They're still around.

Also, nutty though they may be, you don't dare cut them loose and alienate them, either. If you do, you end up with a Ross Perot, George Wallace or Teddy Roosevelt running a third party and splitting the vote. So, if you can't kill it and can't cut it loose, the only option (other than having the whole party crash n'burn--which is not an option) is to let the emotional element run its course and then steer it back into the fold.

84 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:47:25am

re: #70 Buckeye Nation

Okay. So your logic is this: Who cares is ACORN workers are indifferent about the underage sex trade, Beck reported it.

Big on strawmen aren't you? Beck didn't invent the critical examination of ACORN and he was not the one to popularize it, except in the minds of his gullible audience. Search the archives here.

85 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:47:27am

re: #70 Buckeye Nation

Okay. So your logic is this: Who cares is ACORN workers are indifferent about the underage sex trade, Beck reported it.

It is not an issue of "who cares" it is the fact that Beck is actually giving ACORN cover by his actions.

86 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:47:56am

re: #80 karmic_inquisitor

Cleon is a crank?

Really?

I thought he was GREAT working with Gene Wilder in Blazing Saddles. Too bad he is a Bircher!

< / Emily Latella >

That's Cleee-von! (Said in the "That's HEDLEY!" way)

87 Flyovercountry  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:47:59am

re: #29 Buckeye Nation

Yeah, the problem is no one was going after ACORN until Beck broke these stories. He might be unhinged, but so is Olby. And I don't see daily threads bashing Olby here at LGF.

Olberman has been bashed plenty here on LGF. I believe that he even received a nomination for an idiotarian award, and received quite a few votes. The other point is this, Olberman being an idiot does not excuse the idiocy of others, be they left or right. If Beck is our spokes person on the right, we are in deep trouble. Yes Beck put the kids on T.V., but the story was also covered by Breitbart, and Drudge.

88 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:48:18am

re: #81 Dynomite

I can't believe you are still obsessing about the 2 million person remark.

89 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:48:21am

re: #56 Oh no...Sand People!

Since when has 'mormonism' had any effect on the 'religious right'?

We, I repeat, WE, MORMONS, are the biggest 'Hiss and By word' to the 'Religious Right'.

But other than that...it's factually accurate...

They also hate us Catholics with a passion. Many of them seem to think we worship the "whore of Babylon" or some such crappola. Believe me, there's no love lost between parts of the religious right and our two groups.

90 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:48:22am

re: #13 lawhawk

So, a guy that was left on the dustbin of the conservative movement has been resurrected by Beck as the supposed savior of the party. Sheesh. There was a reason Skousen was discarded.

Oh, and while we're at it - this looks like it would hit at a possible Romney run in 2012 because of the positions he takes re: Mormons.

I thought the position Romney took re: Mormons was that he was a Mormon. Romney, thank God, appears to be a regular kind of Mormon who is not prone to weirdness.

91 Wendya  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:48:57am

re: #14 Killgore Trout

This explains the odd fixation he has on obscure and unimportant groups like ACORN.

Obscure and unimportant?

A group with 400K members and 1200 chapters that receives millions in taxpayer money is hardly obscure.

92 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:49:13am

re: #89 Honorary Yooper

They also hate us Catholics with a passion. Many of them seem to think we worship the "whore of Babylon" or some such crappola. Believe me, there's no love lost between parts of the religious right and our two groups.

Never! I want exclusive victim card rights!
//

93 badger1970  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:49:14am

re: #87 Flyovercountry

...and like any good self-promoter, milked it for all its worth and then some. Beck's an ass.

94 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:49:18am

re: #89 Honorary Yooper

They also hate us Catholics with a passion. Many of them seem to think we worship the "whore of Babylon" or some such crappola. Believe me, there's no love lost between parts of the religious right and our two groups.


Well yeah but... you are Catholic whaddya expect? /

95 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:50:22am

re: #54 EmmmieG

Why would Beck be against Romney?

Romney is sane.

96 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:50:23am

re: #89 Honorary Yooper

They also hate us Catholics with a passion. Many of them seem to think we worship the "whore of Babylon" or some such crappola. Believe me, there's no love lost between parts of the religious right and our two groups.

The PC term for her is now the "Professional Escort of Persian descent."

97 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:50:25am

re: #89 Honorary Yooper

Any group that hates is fringe IMHO.

98 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:50:26am

re: #90 SanFranciscoZionist

I thought the position Romney took re: Mormons was that he was a Mormon. Romney, thank God, appears to be a regular kind of Mormon who is not prone to weirdness.

Mind you I didn't say we weren't prone to weirdness of any kind... :-D

99 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:50:27am

re: #76 Charles

Yes -- and ACORN was actually exonerated in every case in 2006. (People never seem to mention this.)

But some of them pleaded guilty without going to trial

100 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:50:30am

re: #88 Buckeye Nation

I can't believe you are still obsessing about the 2 million person remark.


You are a piece of work...

101 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:50:54am

re: #84 Shiplord Kirel

That's great that LGF reported on ACORN. But it is Beck's show that might put an end to US taxpayers funding this corrupt organization.

102 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:51:10am

re: #91 Wendya

Obscure and unimportant?

A group with 400K members and 1200 chapters that receives millions in taxpayer money is hardly obscure.

look ,,, shiny things!
//

103 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:51:13am

Beck with his Cleon Skousen, Obama as antichrist, end-of-times, 5,000 year leaps (shades of ID), etc.

Sometimes it's hard to tell if it's 2009 or 1809 or maybe even 1509.

104 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:51:14am

re: #59 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Romney is sane.

GMTA!

105 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:51:21am

re: #76 Charles

Yes -- and ACORN was actually exonerated in every case in 2006. (People never seem to mention this.)

Few on here would ever admit it, but the attacks on ACORN have a racial component for some. They are indeed a flawed group, but do a lot of good for the minority community. The fact that they are more supportive of the left than the right makes them a target too. Yes, ACORN deserves some more oversight, and most of the criticism is deserved, but I think Beck, Fox, Drudge and others play on the minority stereotypes a bit too much in their attacks.

106 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:51:23am

re: #96 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The PC term for her is now the "Professional Escort of Persian descent."

I'm glad this conversation came to a happy ending.

107 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:51:38am

re: #61 Occasional Reader

Because Romney's sane?

;)

108 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:51:59am

Acorn: Another Radical Group in Barack Obama's Closet (LGF, May 29th 2008)

Stanley Kurtz has another bombshell article today, on Barack Obama’s extensive connections to one of the most virulent anti-capitalist far-left groups operating in the United States: Inside Obama’s Acorn.


Where was Beck then?

109 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:52:06am

re: #97 Ojoe

Any group that hates is fringe IMHO.


I've always hated fringe. Probably because I came of age during the whole midnight electric suburban cowboy thing and it scarred me. /

110 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:52:07am

re: #98 DaddyG

Mind you I didn't say we weren't prone to weirdness of any kind... :-D

Oh we are nuts...

111 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:52:29am

re: #103 Gus 802

Beck with his Cleon Skousen, Obama as antichrist, end-of-times, 5,000 year leaps (shades of ID), etc.

Sometimes it's hard to tell if it's 2009 or 1809 or maybe even 1509.

The anti-intellectualism has taken it's toll.

112 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:52:45am

re: #105 avanti

Few on here would ever admit it, but the attacks on ACORN have a racial component for some.

Ah, the elusive "some".

You're a shoo-in to work as a journo for Reuters!

113 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:52:50am

re: #29 Buckeye Nation

Yeah, the problem is no one was going after ACORN until Beck broke these stories. He might be unhinged, but so is Olby. And I don't see daily threads bashing Olby here at LGF.

It's amazes me every time I hear the "well so is..." whitewash. So lets say someone commits a murder, well, no problem someone else is a murderer also.

I am certain that had the post been on Olberman, Buckeye would never log on to say "so is Beck."

114 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:52:54am

"Zaitchik" means "bunny rabbit" in Russian.

Obviously this guy is a commie plant.

115 unrealizedviewpoint  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:52:57am

re: #91 Wendya

Obscure and unimportant?

A group with 400K members and 1200 chapters that receives millions in taxpayer money is hardly obscure.

...and is slated to receive Billions and Billions of Stimulus money. Yeah, they're obscure and unimportant.
/geez, your partisanship Killgore certainly isn't in hiding much any longer.

116 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:53:10am

re: #105 avanti
I see racists.

117 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:53:18am

re: #98 DaddyG

Mind you I didn't say we weren't prone to weirdness of any kind... :-D

We have great fun making movies that make fun of ourselves for the little idiosyncrasies.

118 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:53:34am

re: #106 Occasional Reader

I'm glad this conversation came to a happy ending.

Additional services provided are between the client and escort

119 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:53:52am

re: #97 Ojoe

Any group that hates is fringe IMHO.

I wish. Unfortunately that does not hold true always. Plenty of hate groups have been mainstreamed in their respective countries. I'll end it there so as not to invoke Godwin.

120 jaunte  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:54:01am

re: #88 Buckeye Nation

I can't believe you are still obsessing about the 2 million person remark.

Paying attention to accuracy, and pointing out when pure inventions get spread around by people that aren't checking their facts, is not obsession. Continuing to insist that the numbers were much higher than they likely were, now that qualifies.

121 Dynomite  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:54:21am

re: #88 Buckeye Nation

I can't believe you are still obsessing about the 2 million person remark.

I think you've mistaken me for someone else. Like one of the many teabaggers out there who swear it's a media conspiracy anytime anyone questions the 2 million mark (and you don't have to search for them very hard - they're all over the web).

I, on the other hand, am simply stoking the fires of idiocy. The faster they burn, they quicker they burn out.

(Completely OT, but I'm reminded of it by the "everywhere" remark). Husband calls wife on the phone while she's in the car. "Honey, I know you're coming home on Highway 9. Please be careful - I saw on the news that there's a car going the wrong way on the highway creating a horrible havoc!"

"One?" she responds. "There's HUNDREDS of them!"

I guess not so OT.. it's a good metaphor for the implosion of the right, as a few cranks going the wrong direction think everyone else is pointed the wrong way...

Wow, I made it relevant!

122 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:54:37am

re: #54 EmmmieG

re: #61 Occasional Reader

Yes. Or that he thinks Romney is a RINO - see Romneycare in Mass.

Bear in mind that this is just supposition on my part. He might simply have picked up on Skousen because the name sounded funny. But I think he's got this thought out. re: #105 avanti

Few on here would ever admit it, but the attacks on ACORN have a racial component for some. They are indeed a flawed group, but do a lot of good for the minority community. The fact that they are more supportive of the left than the right makes them a target too. Yes, ACORN deserves some more oversight, and most of the criticism is deserved, but I think Beck, Fox, Drudge and others play on the minority stereotypes a bit too much in their attacks.

I have to wonder how much good they're doing in those communities when their employees have flexible morality and ethics to consider giving advice on illegal activities. Right and wrong - legal and illegal are the same regardless of income or skin color. Suggesting that we overlook the bad because of some of the good is a poor argument to make.

They wouldn't be a target if they separated the money from their political associations and actions from their homeowner assistance programs.

They wouldn't be a target if they didn't engage in multiple accountings of voter registration fraud.

123 badger1970  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:54:38am

re: #113 Bagua

I wouldn't go that far in the analogy like the mothers' favorite phrase of "If Bobby jumped off the cliff, would you do also?"

2 wrongs does not equal right

124 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:54:39am

re: #117 EmmmieG

We have great fun making movies that make fun of ourselves for the little idiosyncrasies.


When did you see my home movies?

125 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:54:59am

re: #112 Occasional Reader

Ah, the elusive "some".

You're a shoo-in to work as a journo for Reuters!

Some it the operative word, not most, but certainly some and I'd put Beck in that group.

126 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:55:45am

Later.

127 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:55:55am

re: #111 Sharmuta

The anti-intellectualism has taken it's toll.

I'll say. A rather archaic collection of thinking. Most of which would have been completely rejected by William Buckley, Goldwater, or even Ayn Rand. Pertty soon they're going to start pulling out their ouija boards.

128 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:55:56am

re: #113 Bagua

Well guess what, I'll have to wait very long time before I see a negative thread on Olby again. For some reason ONBC has become okay at LGF, but Fox News is persona non grata.

129 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:56:05am

re: #115 unrealizedviewpoint

...and is slated to receive Billions and Billions of Stimulus money. Yeah, they're obscure and unimportant.
/geez, your partisanship Killgore certainly isn't in hiding much any longer.

Billions in stimulus money? Link, please?

130 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:56:52am

re: #109 DaddyG

I've always hated fringe. Probably because I came of age during the whole midnight electric suburban cowboy thing and it scarred me. /


I was never the same after the Disco age...It went downhill after the 3 piece white double knit polyester suit..Dancing to Staying alive is really just a cry for help.

131 foray  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:57:38am

From an outsider looking in it really looks like America has been seduced by the idea that all important things should be entertaining (and its apparent corollary; that the more entertaining a thing is the more important it must be).

It's a worrisome trend, if only because it's apparently so easy to spread.

132 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:59:17am

re: #114 Cato the Elder

"Zaitchik" means "bunny rabbit" in Russian.

Obviously this guy is a commie plant.

I thought that was a red fern.

133 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:59:23am

re: #128 Buckeye Nation

Well guess what, I'll have to wait very long time before I see a negative thread on Olby again. For some reason ONBC has become okay at LGF, but Fox News is persona non grata.

Must be a challenge living in a world where you can only accept news and analysis that fits your personal bias.

134 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:59:33am

re: #129 SanFranciscoZionist

Billions in stimulus money? Link, please?

Don't bother, it's the same talking point I see repeated over and over. It's money they are are eligible to apply for, typically they get a few million/year. Like I said, I'm eligible for the millions from Publishers Clearing House too. :)

135 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:59:50am

re: #120 jaunte

Paying attention to accuracy, and pointing out when pure inventions get spread around by people that aren't checking their facts, is not obsession.

That's what people on this blog have done for 8+ years, and it's shocking and sad to see that spirit has been abandoned by so many others in addition to being something bad thing worth trashing this blog.

136 subsailor68  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 11:59:54am

Buckley.
Beck.

Firing Line.
Glenn Beck Show.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
Harry Reid.

Tip O'Neill.
Nancy Pelosi.

Edward R. Murrow.
Michael Moore.

I sense a trend here...and it's not a good one.

137 unrealizedviewpoint  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:00:39pm

re: #129 SanFranciscoZionist

Billions in stimulus money? Link, please?

You really need a link. You're kidding right?

138 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:00:41pm

re: #105 avanti

Few on here would ever admit it, but the attacks on ACORN have a racial component for some. They are indeed a flawed group, but do a lot of good for the minority community. The fact that they are more supportive of the left than the right makes them a target too. Yes, ACORN deserves some more oversight, and most of the criticism is deserved, but I think Beck, Fox, Drudge and others play on the minority stereotypes a bit too much in their attacks.

RACIST!

139 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:01:07pm

re: #128 Buckeye Nation

Well guess what, I'll have to wait very long time before I see a negative thread on Olby again. For some reason ONBC has become okay at LGF, but Fox News is persona non grata.


That is so much crap... Look..You can search through7 millions posts here..Find somebody that thinks Olby is Okay..
Go ahead..Search.. I'll wait..

140 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:01:49pm

re: #123 badger1970

"If Bobby jumped off the cliff, would you do also?"

If we were both lemmings, we would.//

141 subsailor68  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:02:00pm

Douglas Edwards
Katie Couric

Ayn Rand
Cleon Skouson

Miles Davis
Kanye West

Johnny Carson
David Letterman

Sigh. Can't go on.

142 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:02:15pm

re: #135 Sharmuta

That's what people on this blog have done for 8+ years, and it's shocking and sad to see that spirit has been abandoned by so many others in addition to being something bad thing worth trashing this blog.

It is proof of the power of bias to distort human reasoning. Yes, shocking and quite disappointing.

143 Athos  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:02:25pm

re: #77 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

To put it simply so anyone can understand, the enemy of my enemy can still be bat shit fucking insane.

...

...to the point that I need to watch them as often and as carefully as I watch my enemy.

Nothing makes one more irrelevant to the mainstream than being associated with bat shit fucking insane...

144 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:02:27pm

I am not surprosed that Beck is selling repackaged Skousen. Anyone who was prone to buy into conspiracy theories would be drawn to Skousen fans that are in the LDS Church even though they aren't very numerous. I liken them to the hard core last-days build your bomb shelter fans in evangelical circles.

Some people were making a lot of money off of Y2K nitrogen packed food storage when the "mainstream" Mormon leaders were telling us not to panic and that food and money reserves were more likely to save us from a period of unemployment than some global disaster.

Our theology warns us that corrupt people can destroy a church or government by combining secretly or conspiring to get gain for themselves. But that is on the condition that we are selfish or sinful and allow ourselves to be flattered by the corrupt.

There are and always will be those who take these things to extremes and unfortunaly I have a feeling I will be apologizing for Brother Beck's interesting interpretations for a while. (I know he doesn't speak for me but as a member of the LDS Church I'm sensitive to image - we are already different enough without people thinking we are preaching end times global conspiracy hooey).

Anyway that's my opinion and my rant and I own it.

145 Flyovercountry  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:02:42pm

re: #105 avanti

Few on here would ever admit it, but the attacks on ACORN have a racial component for some. They are indeed a flawed group, but do a lot of good for the minority community. The fact that they are more supportive of the left than the right makes them a target too. Yes, ACORN deserves some more oversight, and most of the criticism is deserved, but I think Beck, Fox, Drudge and others play on the minority stereotypes a bit too much in their attacks.


Let me start by stating that I wish to be as sensitive as I can be with this. I realize that there is still racism in our country. That is unfortunate. I also believe that the wreckless labeling of any criticism of the political left as racist will hurt those efforts at eliminating this stain on our country rather than help that effort. I am hard pressed to find the positive in Acorn. This organization has done more to precipitate the current financial crisis than most people realize. They have used some of the most reprehensible thuggish tactics known to coerece their will upon the business community, and political foes. They have routinely committed felonies in their efforts to get Democrats elected, while taking federal funds to push that partisan agenda. If Acorn performed any good, it was incidental to their operation, and not its purpose. There has to be a point where Americans can disagree politically, and not be labled as racists. Just a personal opinion.

146 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:02:42pm

re: #136 subsailor68

Buckley.
Beck.

Firing Line.
Glenn Beck Show.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
Harry Reid.

Tip O'Neill.
Nancy Pelosi.

Edward R. Murrow.
Michael Moore.

I sense a trend here...and it's not a good one.

It's what television and cheapened education have wrought.

147 KernelPanic  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:02:54pm

re: #137 unrealizedviewpoint

Not kidding. The "billions in stimulus money" is utter bullshit. Drilling down into the hyperventilating claims shows the root of this particular distortion is that acorn may be "able" or "eligible" to win funds from various grants.

148 subsailor68  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:03:22pm

re: #146 calcajun

It's what television and cheapened education have wrought.

Amen, calcajun!

149 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:03:23pm

re: #142 Bagua

My typo is disappointing. I need more cawfi.

150 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:03:30pm

re: #141 subsailor68

John Wayne
Matt Damon

:)

151 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:03:31pm

Have not read this entire thread and I'm glad Charles exposes BS for what it is...BUT...


Why is ther no mention about ACORN ?


An organization that was or is one heartbeat from acquiring over 8 billion taxpayers dollars.

152 Syrah  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:04:05pm

re: #52 Ojoe

This stuff Beck is on is fringe, but truth converges toward a center & we badly need a center party in the USA.

At one time, the Republican party and the Democrat Party were the two center parties in American politics. Most of the kooks and loons self-sequestered themselves off into fringe parties where they were able to spew to their hearts content to small legions of the like minded.

I think that we are going to see the Nirther, Troofer and Beckians split off into their own third party movement soon, a-la Perot. Probably in the next two years. Unlike Perot, Beck won't take the electoral point so he will manage to insulate himself from the abject and staggering failure that they will suffer at the polls. (I think that they will do about as well as Perot did on his first run.)

153 Randall Gross  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:04:20pm

You also see a refitted list of 28 supports for liberty on Paulbot sites as well, and from paulbot commenters, I was wondering where the hell that came from, now I know.

154 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:04:30pm

re: #147 KernelPanic

Not kidding. The "billions in stimulus money" is utter bullshit. Drilling down into the hyperventilating claims shows the root of this particular distortion is that acorn may be "able" or "eligible" to win funds from various grants.

IIRC, ACORN has received about 50 Million since 94. They are eligible for more to the tune of 6 Billion, but I believe that is a chunk of grant money that many folks can compete for.

155 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:04:38pm

Fever Swamp's take in this article (Same story at Free Republic)

156 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:05:21pm

re: #144 DaddyG
I'll watch your back Daddy!
No one will dis ya while I'm on here!
I happen to have TWO shoes!!
;-)

157 irish rose  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:05:39pm

Charles, I hope you'll indulge me for a moment.

I see that Rodan was telling his stalker minions last night that the Deuce was having technical difficulties due to "overwhelming support" from their fans.

I'd like to expose that lie right here, and right now. For any Deucers who are reading this: here's the real reason why your hate site was taken down by Blue Host.

Here's a copy of an email that I received from the Blue Host legal team, after I contacted them to submit a formal complaint w/screenshots regarding your sites' TOS violations. Specifically, your content containing private and personally identifying information about people that your admins have decided that they don't like.


From: Legal Department (legal@bluehost.com)
Sent: Mon 9/14/09 7:38 PM
To:

Hello, Thank you for contacting the Legal Department.

We have contacted the owner and have requested the violation be removed, or we have removed the offending website. If you ever come across sites that are violating our Policies, please feel free to contact us again.

Please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance.

Just thought I'd mention.

Carry on, lizardia.

158 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:05:39pm

re: #133 Bagua

Kind of like MSNBC? Yeah, they are so objective. If you must know, the only show I watch from beginning to end on Fox is Special Report. I usually go jogging when Beck is on. But I get most of my fascist Beck info from that extreme right wing website Hot Air.

159 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:05:54pm

re: #146 calcajun

It's what television and cheapened education have wrought.


Just wait for the twitter generation matures. The most popular sound bite wins!

160 Athos  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:06:08pm

re: #101 Buckeye Nation

That's great that LGF reported on ACORN. But it is Beck's show that might put an end to US taxpayers funding this corrupt organization.

No, actually, it would be Congress reacting to 60 Minute style journalism being done by 2 activists exposing some of the more troubling efforts of community activism practiced by many at Acorn. Unless you have specific information tying Beck to Breibart / Giles / O'Keefe?

161 boxman  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:06:11pm

Charles,
I respect what you do and as an Objectivist-oriented person I concur that it's important to be clear and rational if one is to maintain credibility. If the more conservative elements are going to prevail we'll need to police our ranks and "call out" those on our side and make them accountable.

That said, I am a bit disappointed at how you are going out of your way to point out the fringe elements of the Tea Party movement, implying that it reflects the general feeling of the group. Every large gathering of people is going to have their kooks; for the Left it is their majority. By all accounts, that is the opposite of what is happening here.

This movement is bigger than Beck or Levin, it's average (non-racist) people, seriously concerned about America's future ...

162 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:06:34pm

re: #149 Sharmuta

My typo is disappointing. I need more cawfi.

More coffee is always a good thing.

163 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:06:41pm

Beck is promoting Bircher craziness. Buckley would be having a conniption.

164 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:07:32pm

re: #151 Earth56

Have not read this entire thread and I'm glad Charles exposes BS for what it is...BUT...

Why is ther no mention about ACORN ?

An organization that was or is one heartbeat from acquiring over 8 billion taxpayers dollars.

What's the matter - you aren't already getting enough information about ACORN at every other right wing blog and every show on Fox News?

165 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:07:41pm

re: #139 HoosierHoops

Yeah, and Charles use to goof on Rachel Corrie and the Palestinians for example. You don't see much of that anymore and I doubt we will.

166 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:07:51pm

re: #159 DaddyG

Just wait for the twitter generation matures. The most popular sound bite wins!

I cringe for the future. The end of twitter would be a good reason to hope for the apocalypse in 2012.

167 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:08:09pm

re: #156 reloadingisnotahobby

I'll watch your back Daddy!
No one will dis ya while I'm on here!
I happen to have TWO shoes!!
;-)


Thanks- and I should add that the Lizard community is remarkably respectful of the Mormons who post here and our unique theology and culutre in general. It is one of the reasons this is my primary work avoidance blog.

I really should relax around the Lizards - they have given me no reason to worry about rumors or innuendo.

Thanks scaly friends.

168 unrealizedviewpoint  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:08:54pm

re: #147 KernelPanic

Not kidding. The "billions in stimulus money" is utter bullshit. Drilling down into the hyperventilating claims shows the root of this particular distortion is that acorn may be "able" or "eligible" to win funds from various grants.

Let's begin with a site often used here lately, FactCheck:

The House version of the stimulus bill does indeed include about $1 billion in funding for the Community Development Block Grants (CDBG) program and another $4.2 billion ($2.2 billion in the Senate’s version) in funding for the Neighborhood Stabilization Program (NSP). Neither program is new: CDBG has been around since President Ford (a Republican) signed it into law in 1974, while the NSP was authorized in 2008 as part of the Housing and Economic Recovery Act signed into law by President Bush.

Claiming it's been done for decades doesn't change what it is.

And the rest they compete for huh? Yeah right? We knows what compete means.

169 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:09:18pm

re: #161 boxman

That said, I am a bit disappointed at how you are going out of your way to point out the fringe elements of the Tea Party movement...

I'll try to carry on despite your disappointment. But the plain fact is that I'm not going out of my way at all. Craziness is everywhere at the tea parties, and it takes almost no effort to find examples. The organizers are the craziest ones of all.

170 auldtrafford  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:09:34pm

re: #163 Sharmuta

Beck is promoting Bircher craziness. Buckley would be having a conniption.

Looks like someone else we all know and love is, instead, spreading racism "truth". No names, but initials are Jimmy Carter.

171 SixDegrees  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:09:43pm

re: #103 Gus 802

Beck with his Cleon Skousen, Obama as antichrist, end-of-times, 5,000 year leaps (shades of ID), etc.

Sometimes it's hard to tell if it's 2009 or 1809 or maybe even 1509.

Or 1099, when 15,000 starving Christian crusaders ended their siege of Jerusalem by killing nearly all the inhabitants, and set fire to Mara, Syria, accomplishing much the same.

Although I will say, for once the Rabid Religious Right has taken a back seat to the Birchers, Troofer, Birthers and neo-Nazis who are all clamoring for a piece of the GOP.

172 arethusa  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:09:59pm

Oddly, Cleon was also the name of a Peloponnesian War-era Greek politician, whose aggressive demagoguery could easily be credited with helping bring about the defeat of Athens in the war.

Not relevant at all, of course, I just like historical coincidences.

173 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:10:25pm

re: #151 Earth56

Have not read this entire thread and I'm glad Charles exposes BS for what it is...BUT...

Why is ther no mention about ACORN ?

An organization that was or is one heartbeat from acquiring over 8 billion taxpayers dollars.

There's that BS billion number yet again. That 8 billion was mostly for projects ACORN can not qualify for, the other part is up for grabs by 100's of groups. ACORN typically gets a tiny fraction of that pie.

174 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:10:45pm

re: #170 auldtrafford

Looks like someone else we all know and love is, instead, spreading racism "truth". No names, but initials are Jimmy Carter.

WH: President Obama Disagrees with Former President Carter that Most Animosity Towards Obama is Race-Based.

175 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:11:12pm

re: #158 Buckeye Nation

Kind of like MSNBC? Yeah, they are so objective. If you must know, the only show I watch from beginning to end on Fox is Special Report. I usually go jogging when Beck is on. But I get most of my fascist Beck info from that extreme right wing website Hot Air.

You should read up on the idea of a Straw Man Argument, it is what you are using. The subject was LGF, MSNBC was never mentioned or alluded to.

176 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:11:15pm

It's kind of like how KT feels about the ACORN story; I try to care about Beck, but I can't.

What little I've seen of him (mostly here, and linked from here) leads me to dismiss him.

I keep thinking of the wonderfully dismissive assessment of a British officer I read somewhere: His men only follow him from a perverse fascination to see what he will do next.

177 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:11:29pm

OT:

Markets up again. V shaped stock market recovery? Sure does look that way. Its been an awesome rally...

178 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:11:42pm
179 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:12:07pm

re: #176 Dianna

Yeah- who cares if he's promoting Bircher craziness to millions.

180 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:12:08pm

This is the longest prelude to a flounce I've ever seen.

181 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:12:19pm

re: #163 Sharmuta

To true. But remember what happened in 1964, after Buckley exorcised the Birchers from the GOP--the GOP lost the election and in a huge fashion--and that was with Barry Goldwater as its head This historical lesson is not lost on the GOP--it's in the same spot now as it was 45 years ago and facing the same dilemma; they cannot embrace the loonies but they dare not cut them loose, either.

182 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:12:46pm

re: #174 Charles

"The president does not believe that the criticism... is based on the color of his skin," White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said today.

That's three times in the last week I thought the Obama White House was spot on. Can I still be a Republican?

183 Gus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:12:47pm

re: #171 SixDegrees

Or 1099, when 15,000 starving Christian crusaders ended their siege of Jerusalem by killing nearly all the inhabitants, and set fire to Mara, Syria, accomplishing much the same.

Although I will say, for once the Rabid Religious Right has taken a back seat to the Birchers, Troofer, Birthers and neo-Nazis who are all clamoring for a piece of the GOP.

Can you imagine if the RR combines with these new fringe groups? I imagine there's already a great deal of intermingling.

184 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:12:53pm

re: #157 irish rose

Charles, I hope you'll indulge me for a moment.

I see that Rodan was telling his stalker minions last night that the Deuce was having technical difficulties due to "overwhelming support" from their fans.

I'd like to expose that lie right here, and right now. For any Deucers who are reading this: here's the real reason why your hate site was taken down by Blue Host.

Here's a copy of an email that I received from the Blue Host legal team, after I contacted them to submit a formal complaint w/screenshots regarding your sites' TOS violations. Specifically, your content containing private and personally identifying information about people that your admins have decided that they don't like.

Just thought I'd mention.

Carry on, lizardia.

Are you sure he was not talking about the dead, slow loads on his new server ? I did see them talking about you causing the issue earlier.

185 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:13:17pm

re: #180 Charles

This is the longest prelude to a flounce I've ever seen.

It's a fun crescendo, imagine the crash to come!

186 auldtrafford  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:13:19pm

re: #174 Charles

WH: President Obama Disagrees with Former President Carter that Most Animosity Towards Obama is Race-Based.

It is good they disagree about this, but isn't it time they discredited the guy altogether? He's becoming a lot more divisive than helpful (Carter, that is).

187 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:13:24pm

re: #174 Charles

Ah Geez...That's what ...three times in the last month or two
I TOTALLY agree and respect what Obama has said or done!
I need a beer!

188 Wendya  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:13:24pm

re: #105 avanti

Few on here would ever admit it, but the attacks on ACORN have a racial component for some. They are indeed a flawed group, but do a lot of good for the minority community. The fact that they are more supportive of the left than the right makes them a target too. Yes, ACORN deserves some more oversight, and most of the criticism is deserved, but I think Beck, Fox, Drudge and others play on the minority stereotypes a bit too much in their attacks.

Meanwhile...

ACORN plans internal investigation: [Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

And this is just hysterical:

San Bernardino, CA) -- Today the videographer James O'Keefe's hidden camera "interview" with San Bernardino ACORN organizer Tresa Kaelke, airing repeatedly on Fox "News", including the Glenn Beck show, and on BigGovernment.com, has been caught out in an obvious set of lies and manipulations.

When the actors approached Ms. Kaelke with their provocative costuming and outlandish scenario, she could not take them seriously. So she met their outrageousness with her own personal style of outrageousness. She matched their false scenario with her own false scenarios.

[Link: www.acorn.org...]

*cough* *bullshit*

189 SixDegrees  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:13:27pm

re: #161 boxman

Charles,
I respect what you do and as an Objectivist-oriented person I concur that it's important to be clear and rational if one is to maintain credibility. If the more conservative elements are going to prevail we'll need to police our ranks and "call out" those on our side and make them accountable.

That said, I am a bit disappointed at how you are going out of your way to point out the fringe elements of the Tea Party movement, implying that it reflects the general feeling of the group. Every large gathering of people is going to have their kooks; for the Left it is their majority. By all accounts, that is the opposite of what is happening here.

This movement is bigger than Beck or Levin, it's average (non-racist) people, seriously concerned about America's future ...

They aren't the fringe elements - they're the organizers, planners, fund raisers and promoters. They ARE the Tea Parties.

190 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:13:33pm

re: #180 Charles

This is the longest prelude to a flounce I've ever seen.

"Prelude to a Flounce"...

Isn't that a movie?
/

191 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:13:58pm

re: #165 Buckeye Nation

Yeah, and Charles use to goof on Rachel Corrie and the Palestinians for example. You don't see much of that anymore and I doubt we will.

Last I hear, Rachel Corrie is still dead and the "Palestinians" have gotten plenty of sincere expose here at this excellent site. If you are so disappointed, there is a simple cure for that.

192 subsailor68  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:14:04pm

re: #180 Charles

This is the longest prelude to a flounce I've ever seen.

LOL! I love Duke Ellington!! (Just cause you're a musician Charles!)

193 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:14:06pm

re: #182 DaddyG

That's three times in the last week I thought the Obama White House was spot on. Can I still be a Republican?

Get off this site RINO...
//

194 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:14:20pm

re: #186 auldtrafford

It is good they disagree about this, but isn't it time they discredited the guy altogether? He's becoming a lot more divisive than helpful (Carter, that is).

I don't recall George W. Bush ever saying anything to discredit Carter, either.

195 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:14:27pm

re: #178 Buckeye Nation

They'll probably have a whole lot more to say when another video comes out in their backyard (but then again, probably not). Note that the NYT finally got around to issuing one of their own reports on the matter (not just wire services) today, after the Brooklyn ACORN office was busted.

And that's with the Times own archives chock full of ACORN malfeasance. They know that ACORN has serious money troubles - primarily the inability to separate the political from the home assistance programs - that would affect its tax exempt status. Yet, their reporter failed to utilize the very resources at his disposal.

196 Randall Gross  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:14:33pm

Buzzsaw or someone needs to rewrite "Dance Away" as "Flounce Away"

197 arethusa  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:14:37pm

re: #186 auldtrafford

Carter's pretty good at discrediting himself.

198 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:14:43pm

re: #180 Charles

This is the longest prelude to a flounce I've ever seen.


Let us have our entertainment. The earlier stealth flounce on the end of a late night thread last night was just weak. /

199 Athos  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:14:48pm

re: #152 Syrah

There are times I am thinking that the it will be the sane middle (center left and center right) that tire of the fringes and form their own party to counter the insanity from the fringe.

The alternative would be for the mainstream of both parties to tire of the rants and seize back their parties by pushing the fringes back into the parties that they are trying to leave (Green, Communist, Libretarian, etc.) Unfortunately, there is no will in the leadership of either major party to do this.

200 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:14:49pm

Just a helpful hint, just because you're noticing something for the first time doesn't mean its new. People have been investigating ACORN for years. Just because you just found out because of Beck doesn't mean it hasn't been looked at before.

201 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:15:10pm

re: #190 Oh no...Sand People!

"Prelude to a Flounce"...

Isn't that a movie?
/

Load flounce torpedoes, Mr. Sulu!

202 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:15:17pm

re: #177 experiencedtraveller

OT:

Markets up again. V shaped stock market recovery? Sure does look that way. Its been an awesome rally...

I wonder what bad news 3wood could toss out, we need a correction IMHO. I made more on GE stock this year than I ever made working for a living.

203 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:15:25pm

re: #181 calcajun

To true. But remember what happened in 1964, after Buckley exorcised the Birchers from the GOP--the GOP lost the election and in a huge fashion--and that was with Barry Goldwater as its head This historical lesson is not lost on the GOP--it's in the same spot now as it was 45 years ago and facing the same dilemma; they cannot embrace the loonies but they dare not cut them loose, either.


Can we make them wear funny hats and dress in pink boas like the Dems do with theirs?

204 auldtrafford  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:15:31pm

re: #194 Charles

I don't recall George W. Bush ever saying anything to discredit Carter, either.

I don't recall Carter ever saying he was partial to the Bush Administration. No need to discredit someone who is constantly opposing you.

205 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:15:41pm

re: #180 Charles

This is the longest prelude to a flounce I've ever seen.

Prelude to a Flounce
A Fistful of Flounce
The Good, the Bad and the Flounce

206 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:15:54pm

re: #197 arethusa

Carter's pretty good at discrediting himself.

He's been irrelevant since 1979

207 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:16:06pm

re: #164 Charles

What's the matter - you aren't already getting enough information about ACORN at every other right wing blog and every show on Fox News?

Better question is why why NBC..CBS..ABC and the rest of the "mainstream" decides to put the story if at all behind the want ads.

Is it 1984 already ?

It took bloggers and your site to expose the bias in the coverage of the Lebanese-Israeli War a few years back and I guess I expect the same with this story.

There are many storys your posting thats on "every other left-wing blogs" so whats your point ?

208 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:16:17pm

re: #205 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A Fistful of Flounce

Is it just me, or does that sound really dirty?

209 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:16:19pm

re: #203 DaddyG

Can we make them wear funny hats and dress in pink boas like the Dems do with theirs?

uh...I think that's how they dress in real life.

210 SixDegrees  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:16:29pm

re: #183 Gus 802

Can you imagine if the RR combines with these new fringe groups? I imagine there's already a great deal of intermingling.

Read any of Pat Buchanan's tripe lately? There's already plenty of cross fertilization taking place.

211 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:16:31pm

re: #183 Gus 802

When you say intermingling ...it sounds ...dirty!
Is that wrong?;-)

212 Athos  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:16:53pm

re: #163 Sharmuta

Beck is promoting Bircher craziness. Buckley would be having a conniption.

I wish more of us would be...

213 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:17:03pm

re: #189 SixDegrees

They aren't the fringe elements - they're the organizers, planners, fund raisers and promoters. They ARE the Tea Parties.

It seems no matter how much this is pointed out, it needs to be repeated daily.

912 is Beck and Beck is promoting this Bircher kook. Why is this so hard to grasp for people?

214 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:17:03pm

re: #195 lawhawk

You forget that the only reason why the NY Times is actually covering this story is b/c of Beck. Also, the Times didn't put this story on its front page, you have go searching for it in the back if you read its print edition.

215 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:17:11pm

The Flounce is strong in this one. Bagua's Flouncometer* is reading off the scale again.


*Newly improved

216 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:17:36pm

re: #173 avanti

There's that BS billion number yet again. That 8 billion was mostly for projects ACORN can not qualify for, the other part is up for grabs by 100's of groups. ACORN typically gets a tiny fraction of that pie.

I wouldn't care if its 58 million. That is not the point.

217 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:17:47pm

How many flounces today?

218 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:18:02pm

re: #206 Leonidas Hoplite

He's been irrelevant since 1979

If he had pushed Habitat for Humanity as a model for revamping the housing and lending markets, his legacy would have been better. Now, he's a bitter man complaining that if he had one more term, he would have been able to bring lasting peace to the Middle East.

219 Randall Gross  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:18:03pm

re: #210 SixDegrees

Read any of Pat Buchanan's tripe lately? There's already plenty of cross fertilization taking place.

I'm fully expecting a third way candidated in 12 if the R's don't get their act together and shoo the nutballs off the otherwise vacant stage.

220 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:18:13pm

re: #139 HoosierHoops

Hoops, did you read my reply to your question from last night?

221 Fluffy Bunny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:18:27pm

"Besides bursting with factual errors, Skousen's book characterized African-American children as "pickaninnies" and described American slave owners as the "worst victims" of the slavery system."

Dear Glenn,

Until you recognize that Skousen was a racist, right-wing extremist, you are a part of the problem NOT a part of the solution. At least have the common sense to be honest with yourself and your viewers.

Kind regards,
Fluffy Bunny

222 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:18:51pm

re: #196 Thanos

How about this?

f-f-f-f l-l-l-l-o-o-o-o-u-u-u-u-n-n-n-n-c-c-c-c-e-e-e-e

Flounce!

[Spoken]
We can flunce if we want to
We can leave your threads behind
'Cause your friends don't flounce and if they don't flounce
Well they're no friends of mine
I say, we can blog where we want to
A place where they have narrow minds
And we can act like you talk from out of your mouth
when its really your behind
And we can flounce...

223 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:18:59pm

re: #196 Thanos

Buzzsaw or someone needs to rewrite "Dance Away" as "Flounce Away"

I'm thinking Styx

I'm flouncing away,
Setting up a flounce on the open thread,
Cuz I've got to be free,
Free to comment on my idiocy

224 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:19:29pm

re: #208 MrSilverDragon

Is it just me, or does that sound really dirty?

Not sure, but I like the way you think

225 arethusa  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:19:33pm

re: #218 calcajun

Who was it who called Carter "our worst ex-President"? Habitat for Humanity aside, he's been a worse ex-President than he was a bad President.

226 SixDegrees  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:19:45pm

re: #186 auldtrafford

It is good they disagree about this, but isn't it time they discredited the guy altogether? He's becoming a lot more divisive than helpful (Carter, that is).

In Carter's mind, disagreement amounts to discreditation. The current Administration has no need to point out that he's become a gibbering fool; it's apparent all by itself, without having the President stoop to such commentary.

I'd call this incident well handled by the White House. With any luck, Carter will buy a clue and learn to keep his mouth shut.

227 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:20:04pm

re: #225 arethusa

No disagreement there.

228 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:20:08pm

re: #180 Charles

This is the longest prelude to a flounce I've ever seen.


Yesterday,
All my flounces seemed so far away,
Now it looks as though they're here to stay,
Oh, I believe in yesterday.

Suddenly,
I'm not half the blogger I used to be,
There's a flounce hanging over me,
Oh, yesterday came suddenly.

Why I
Had to go I don't know, I couldn't say.
I said,
Something wrong, now I long for yesterday.

Yesterday,
Posting was such an easy game to play,
Now I need a place to hide away,
Oh, I believe in yesterday.

229 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:20:19pm

re: #214 Buckeye Nation

No. They're not covering it because of Beck. They're covering it because the Post and News are covering it. They have to sell newspapers, and if they completely miss the story, you can bet it sells newspapers.

Remember. This is a business that they're trying to run. The Times can run out there that they ran a story on the matter, even though they're late to this latest party.

But since you are committed to claiming that the Times wouldn't have run a story about ACORN, where was Beck when the Times ran this story calling into question ACORN's money troubles? And that was at a time when Obama and ACORN's ties were coming into much clearer focus.

230 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:20:20pm

re: #222 DaddyG

How about this?

f-f-f-f l-l-l-l-o-o-o-o-u-u-u-u-n-n-n-n-c-c-c-c-e-e-e-e

Flounce!

[Spoken]
We can flunce if we want to
We can leave your threads behind
'Cause your friends don't flounce and if they don't flounce
Well they're no friends of mine
I say, we can blog where we want to
A place where they have narrow minds
And we can act like you talk from out of your mouth
when its really your behind
And we can flounce...

Great...now I will never enjoy Men Without Hats the same way again...
Or will I?

231 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:20:34pm

Where's the slowly flouncing one?

232 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:20:42pm

re: #222 DaddyG

Well done!

/golf clap

233 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:20:52pm

re: #204 auldtrafford

I don't recall Carter ever saying he was partial to the Bush Administration. No need to discredit someone who is constantly opposing you.

Some people still have a sense of decorum about these things.

234 cliffster  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:21:00pm

re: #228 HoosierHoops

That actually *sniff* brought a tear to my eye

235 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:21:03pm

re: #179 Sharmuta

Yeah- who cares if he's promoting Bircher craziness to millions.

I just can't take him seriously. Really, I try. But he's just so obviously off his rocker that I feel guilty watching even clips of him.

236 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:21:19pm

re: #191 Bagua

Last I hear, Rachel Corrie is still dead and the "Palestinians" have gotten plenty of sincere expose here at this excellent site. If you are so disappointed, there is a simple cure for that.

D9?

237 SixDegrees  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:22:02pm

re: #219 Thanos

I'm fully expecting a third way candidated in 12 if the R's don't get their act together and shoo the nutballs off the otherwise vacant stage.

Possible. True Conservatism still has broad appeal, no party is touting it, and there's certainly hunger for a Conservative candidate across a wide swath of voters.

Multi-trillion dollar deficits will do that.

238 Syrah  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:22:48pm

re: #199 Athos

There are times I am thinking that the it will be the sane middle (center left and center right) that tire of the fringes and form their own party to counter the insanity from the fringe.

The alternative would be for the mainstream of both parties to tire of the rants and seize back their parties by pushing the fringes back into the parties that they are trying to leave (Green, Communist, Libretarian, etc.) Unfortunately, there is no will in the leadership of either major party to do this.

Our political system (winner takes all) favors ideologically weak large parties made up of factional groups. The Factional groups are more likely to split off and move out. Its a momentum and majority issue.

The core of the Republican and Democrat party will remain, leaving more centrist parties in the aftermath. The fringes will sputter out on the curb like the activist in the Reform Party did. (crossing some fingers here.)

239 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:23:02pm

re: #233 Charles

Some people still have a sense of decorum about these things.

And what I mean by that is that it's perfectly appropriate for someone like me to call Jimmy Carter America's worst ex-President.

It's not appropriate for another President to do so, and Obama realizes this just like GW Bush did.

240 filetandrelease  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:23:26pm

re: #109 DaddyG

I've always hated fringe. Probably because I came of age during the whole midnight electric suburban cowboy thing and it scarred me. /


But..but.. if you aren't living on the edge, you are taking up too much room.
//

241 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:23:28pm

re: #235 Dianna

It's not even him so much as the people swallowing his nonsense.

242 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:23:29pm

re: #220 Cato the Elder

Hoops, did you read my reply to your question from last night?


Sorry, my friend, but in this case you're stinkin' ignorant.

I had no idea about service dogs...I was wrong...But stinking ignorant?
I pay good money to always smell good...
Sorry you were offended...

243 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:23:41pm

re: #236 Creeping Eruption

D9?

Too messy, I prefer "Termination by Flounce"

244 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:23:42pm

re: #229 lawhawk

No. They're not covering it because of Beck. They're covering it because the Post and News are covering it. They have to sell newspapers, and if they completely miss the story, you can bet it sells newspapers.

Remember. This is a business that they're trying to run. The Times can run out there that they ran a story on the matter, even though they're late to this latest party.

But since you are committed to claiming that the Times wouldn't have run a story about ACORN, where was Beck when the Times ran this story calling into question ACORN's money troubles? And that was at a time when Obama and ACORN's ties were coming into much clearer focus.

How did I miss that one?! Thanks for the link.

245 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:23:54pm

re: #229 lawhawk

No, they are covering ACORN now b/c it is so blatantly obvious what is going on that they are force to cover the story now. Do you really think they want to go after ACORN? If they did, they could have broke this story a long time ago.

246 Syrah  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:23:56pm

off to work. Back in 12.

247 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:24:24pm

re: #226 SixDegrees

In Carter's mind, disagreement amounts to discreditation. The current Administration has no need to point out that he's become a gibbering fool; it's apparent all by itself, without having the President stoop to such commentary.

I'd call this incident well handled by the White House. With any luck, Carter will buy a clue and learn to keep his mouth shut.

Out of pity, Obama should get him a White House cup from the gift shop so that Carter can at least catch the drool on his chin.

248 Athos  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:24:37pm

re: #181 calcajun

To true. But remember what happened in 1964, after Buckley exorcised the Birchers from the GOP--the GOP lost the election and in a huge fashion--and that was with Barry Goldwater as its head This historical lesson is not lost on the GOP--it's in the same spot now as it was 45 years ago and facing the same dilemma; they cannot embrace the loonies but they dare not cut them loose, either.

I disagree with your read. If the GOP did not exorcise the Birchers from the party, the loss in '64 would have been far greater, and the aspects of '68 / '72 (at least) would have been very grim. The new conservative movement, sans Birchers, was the framework that Reagan and the 1980 conservative revival came from. None of that would have happened if the Birchers were still welcomed in the party.

The parallel to this day is similar - if the GOP doesn't exorcise the Birchers, Nirthers, Paulians, neo-confederates, extreme fundalmentalists from the party, then mainstream America will turn its back on the party because of their association with these nitwits - just like they turned their back on the America Firsters in the almost 70 years ago.

As troubled as mainstream US is with the policies and directions of the present Administration, they will not embrace the loons. They will do as they always do and vote for the lesser of two evils...dooming the GOP to the wilderness until it gets smart.

249 Randall Gross  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:25:12pm

The point is that Beck and Fox news seem invested in reliving and rehashing every election 08 talking point and rinsing and repeating ad infinitum. The left went into the same self destructive phase after Bush's initial win, and it took six years to pull out of it.

Conservatives who want to lead need to start looking at the future, not the rearview mirror.

250 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:25:33pm

Why are we upset with Beck??
How many times has it been said here "Even a blind squirrel
occasionally finds a...WACK**

251 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:26:14pm

re: #250 reloadingisnotahobby

Why are we upset with Beck??
How many times has it been said here "Even a blind squirrel
occasionally finds a...WACK**

Hello? RINAH? Are you still there?

252 cliffster  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:26:27pm

re: #239 Charles

And what I mean by that is that it's perfectly appropriate for someone like me to call Jimmy Carter America's worst ex-President.

It's not appropriate for another President to do so, and Obama realizes this just like GW Bush did.

No it's not. And it would have been nice for Carter to also realize that.

253 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:26:34pm

re: #242 HoosierHoops

Sorry, my friend, but in this case you're stinkin' ignorant.

I had no idea about service dogs...I was wrong...But stinking ignorant?
I pay good money to always smell good...
Sorry you were offended...

Sorry. I had just been discriminated against - again - for having a service dog. And they you come along and say you don't want me and my dog next to you in a restaurant unless I'm blind. I was a tad flummoxed.

If I ever get out to your neck of the woods, I will take you and yours out to dinner with Haku, my canine savior. I hope you will accept the invitation.

254 Randall Gross  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:26:39pm

re: #245 Buckeye Nation

Did you even look at the date of the story at the link before mouthing off?

255 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:26:50pm

re: #197 arethusa

Carter's pretty good at discrediting himself.

One has to have credit before one can be discredited

256 Athos  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:27:15pm

re: #206 Leonidas Hoplite

He's been irrelevant since 1979

I would say 1978 myself...his last 2 years in office were dismal.

257 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:27:51pm

re: #251 DaddyG

Damn!
Had I known that would happen I'd have kept my big
mouth shut!

258 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:28:19pm

re: #253 Cato the Elder

PIMF "...and then..."

259 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:28:43pm

re: #245 Buckeye Nation

If they wanted to break ACORN, they could have dug even deeper on the story I linked to above. It wouldn't take O'Keefe or Beck to crush ACORN - just the fact that the organization is violating its tax exempt status across the country by using its position for political purposes - an argument made in the past by the GOP, but bolstered by the NYT report.

The Times hasn't wanted to go after ACORN for a whole host of reasons, but that they're doing so now has little to do with Beck, and everything to do with selling newspapers in NYC because the Post and News both tout stories that they catch that the "Paper of Record" misses. This is the sop to that. Watch the Times continue to ignore the story and/or run wire reports unless something major happens - like resignations at the top.

You're trying to ascribe shame to the NYT actions - that they have to cover it because of Beck. That's a motive I wouldn't include among the Times' editorial staff. They have no shame.

260 Randall Gross  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:29:09pm

The fact is that Fox and Beck have gone into a cycle of rehashing the election, will Beck be their Rather? If he keeps following the kookspiracists leads you can almost bet on it.

261 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:29:09pm

re: #254 Thanos

Who cares. If the Times wanted to after ACORN like they did the Bush administration they could have.

262 revobob  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:29:11pm

re: #257 reloadingisnotahobby

Damn!
Had I known that would happen I'd have kept my big
mouth shut!

Looks like yer gonna have a lump there, too!

263 cliffster  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:29:59pm
"I think as far as the adverse impact on the nation around the world, this administration has been the worst in history""

Jimmy Carter - RE: The Bush Administration

264 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:30:02pm

re: #260 Thanos

The fact is that Fox and Beck have gone into a cycle of rehashing the election, will Beck be their Rather? If he keeps following the kookspiracists leads you can almost bet on it.

Well, just wait until he relies on some piece of information - a picture perhaps, that is a cooked up fauxtograph or other piece of work. Nirtherism comes to mind.

265 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:30:20pm

re: #241 Sharmuta

It's not even him so much as the people swallowing his nonsense.

Do you ever wonder if this is another example of television hypnosis? Do people become suggestible because of the flicker, and then can't resist the suggestion?

Or are people so overwhelmed by disinformation that they can't tell what's true any more? That is my suspicion, personally.

266 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:30:58pm

Unforgiveable

Ambushed Marines' Aid Call 'Rejected'

NATO-led forces are investigating the death of four Marines in eastern Afghanistan after their commanders reportedly rejected requests for artillery fire in a battle with insurgents, the Pentagon said on Wednesday.

Tuesday's incident was "under investigation" and details remained unclear, press secretary Geoff Morrell told a news conference.

A McClatchy newspapers' journalist who witnessed the battle reported that a team of Marine trainers made repeated appeals for air and artillery support after being pinned down by insurgents in the village of Ganjgal in eastern Kunar province.

The U.S. troops had to wait more than an hour for attack helicopters to come to their aid and their appeal for artillery fire was rejected, with commanders citing new rules designed to avoid civilian casualties, the report said.

267 SixDegrees  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:31:07pm

re: #245 Buckeye Nation

No, they are covering ACORN now b/c it is so blatantly obvious what is going on that they are force to cover the story now. Do you really think they want to go after ACORN? If they did, they could have broke this story a long time ago.

Uh - the story's from October, 2008, during the Bush Administration and long before Beck's ascendancy.

Ignorant much?

268 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:31:08pm

re: #253 Cato the Elder

Sorry. I had just been discriminated against - again - for having a service dog. And they you come along and say you don't want me and my dog next to you in a restaurant unless I'm blind. I was a tad flummoxed.

If I ever get out to your neck of the woods, I will take you and yours out to dinner with Haku, my canine savior. I hope you will accept the invitation.

I had no idea about service dogs..It would be a privledge to have dinner with you anytime..
Regards

269 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:31:14pm

Jimmy Carter, yesterday

"The president is not only the head of government, he is the head of state. And no matter who he is or how much we disagree with his policies, the president should be treated with respect."

And before

1. Ex-president Carter slams Bush on market crisis %P% Reuters
Oct 10, 2008 ... BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Former President Jimmy Carter said on Friday the atrocious economic policies of the Bush administration had caused the ...
[Link: [Link: www.reuters.com...]...] - Cached - Similar
2. Jimmy Carter Slams Bush Administration %P% CommonDreams.org
May 19, 2007 ... Jimmy Carter Slams Bush Administration. Former president cites international relations, environment, faith-based initiatives ...
[Link: [Link: www.commondreams.org...]...] - Cached - Similar
3. Jimmy Carter slams Bush administration %P% News for Dallas, Texas ...
May 19, 2007 ... Jimmy Carter slams Bush administration. British leader Tony Blair fares no better as former president lashes out ...
[Link: [Link: www.dallasnews.com...]...] - Cached - Similar
4. Jimmy Carter Slams Bush On Human Rights - CBS News
Oct 11, 2007 ... Says US Has Tortured Prisoners, Ignoring Geneva Convention.
[Link: [Link: www.cbsnews.com...]...] - Cached - Similar
5. Ikhwanweb :: The Muslim Brotherhood Official English Website
Jimmy Carter Slams Bush On Human Rights. Says U.S. Has Tortured Prisoners, Ignoring Geneva Convention. The U.S. tortures prisoners in violation of ...
[Link: [Link: www.ikhwanweeb.com...]...] - Cached - Similar
6. Carter slams Bush on world relations - USATODAY.com
Former President Carter says President Bush's administration is the worst in history in international relations, taking aim at the White House's policy of ...
[Link: [Link: www.usatoday.com...]...] - Cached - Similar
7. Jimmy Carter slams Bush on nuclear proliferation
Jimmy Carter slams Bush on nuclear proliferation. Agencies Posted online: Thursday, August 30, 2007 at 0812 hours IST Washington, August 30: Former US ...
[Link: [Link: www.expressindia.com...]...] - Cached - Similar
8. JIMMY CARTER
Jimmy Carter Slams Bush Administration %P% CommonDreams.orgJimmy Carter Slams Bush Administration Former president cites international relations. ...
kaholics.com/vilhelmina_darin/header.php?...carter ... -


[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

270 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:31:56pm

re: #248 Athos

But, that's the dilemma-- the GOP wants their votes, but not their ideology. If the GOP banishes the loons, then the GOP risks another Ross Perot in 2012-- which would be equally disastrous. To quote Jefferson, it's like holding a wolf by the ears; you don't like it but you don't dare let go.

271 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:32:09pm

re: #265 Dianna

Do you ever wonder if this is another example of television hypnosis? Do people become suggestible because of the flicker, and then can't resist the suggestion?

Or are people so overwhelmed by disinformation that they can't tell what's true any more? That is my suspicion, personally.

Personally, I think the average human being is too stupid to figure out how to pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were on the heel.

I have evidence.

272 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:32:26pm

re: #265 Dianna Hmmm? Good point. A) A TV personality said it and B) I don't have time to research for myself and C) it sounds plausable...

...therefore I believe it.

273 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:32:27pm

re: #245 Buckeye Nation

No, they are covering ACORN now b/c it is so blatantly obvious what is going on that they are force to cover the story now. Do you really think they want to go after ACORN? If they did, they could have broke this story a long time ago.

This story was published during the campaign.

274 Fluffy Bunny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:32:28pm

re: #249 Thanos

I, hereby, nominate Thanos as my candidate for 2012.

275 arethusa  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:32:41pm

re: #263 cliffster

Jimmy Carter - RE: The Bush Administration

I remember the late 1970's. It felt like the country was going to hell all the time. Gas lines, we were a laughingstock abroad, hostages. I sometimes felt the country was headed the wrong way in the Bush years, but never ever as badly as I did during the Carter years.

276 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:32:50pm

re: #264 lawhawk

Because I don't follow LGF doctrine, I must be a 'birther?' Sorry to rain on your parade, but I'm not.

277 Randall Gross  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:33:28pm

re: #274 Fluffy Bunny

Declined, I have 24K+ comments here, I am unelectable.

278 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:33:56pm

re: #268 HoosierHoops

I had no idea about service dogs..It would be a privledge to have dinner with you anytime..
Regards

Well, the nick on that reply is still blue. And I have family in Michigan. Email me and we'll set it up.

279 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:34:01pm

re: #253 Cato the Elder

Sorry. I had just been discriminated against - again - for having a service dog. And they you come along and say you don't want me and my dog next to you in a restaurant unless I'm blind. I was a tad flummoxed.

If I ever get out to your neck of the woods, I will take you and yours out to dinner with Haku, my canine savior. I hope you will accept the invitation.


I wish people would educate themselves. I have a friend who places service dogs with severe diabetics so they can detect an attack before their human even suspects. Service dogs are for more than the blind (but they are very cool there too).

280 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:34:06pm

re: #269 MandyManners

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

Former President Carter is a disgrace.

281 theheat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:34:28pm

re: #263 cliffster

Pot, meet kettle.

282 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:35:06pm

re: #265 Dianna

Do you ever wonder if this is another example of television hypnosis? Do people become suggestible because of the flicker, and then can't resist the suggestion?

Or are people so overwhelmed by disinformation that they can't tell what's true any more? That is my suspicion, personally.

Why is it either or? There's a reason it's called The Idiot Box. And it serves the purpose of distributing disinformation for those inclined to do so.

283 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:35:56pm

re: #276 Buckeye Nation

Because I don't follow LGF doctrine, I must be a 'birther?' Sorry to rain on your parade, but I'm not.

I was referring to Beck, not you. That's the He I was referring to when replying to Thanos above. I never suggested or implied that you were a birther.

284 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:35:56pm

re: #276 Buckeye Nation

There is no doctrine here.

285 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:36:00pm

re: #276 Buckeye Nation

Because I don't follow LGF doctrine, I must be a 'birther?' Sorry to rain on your parade, but I'm not.

Doctrine? What an outrageous assertion, you are speaking nonsense on this thread.

286 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:36:31pm

I must heed the sanguine siren song of the salt mines.

287 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:36:32pm

re: #265 Dianna

Do you ever wonder if this is another example of television hypnosis? Do people become suggestible because of the flicker, and then can't resist the suggestion?

Or are people so overwhelmed by disinformation that they can't tell what's true any more? That is my suspicion, personally.

The average person is overwhelmed with bullshit and disinformation, doesn't have critical thinking skills, only shows skepticism towards things they already don't like, and has very little time or motivation to rectify any of the above.

288 Fluffy Bunny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:36:57pm

re: #277 Thanos

So, are you saying you are over-qualified? ; )

289 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:37:04pm

re: #284 Sharmuta

Is there a doctrine in the house?

290 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:37:11pm

Attention Islamic Terrorists in the New York area who are planing to bomb the subways...
FBI unit set for more anti-terror raids in Queens; Fears of Madrid-style subway bombings - sources

Fearful of a Madrid-style subway train bombing, authorities are poised to make more raids to seize bomb-making materials at locations in Queens, sources said Wednesday.

The FBI's elite Hostage Rescue Team arrived in New York in anticipation of the offensive to thwart a Denver-based terror cell with ties to Al Qaeda, police sources told the Daily News.

Since when do they announce these raids in the press beforehand?

291 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:37:11pm

re: #285 Bagua

Doctrine? What an outrageous assertion, you are speaking nonsense on this thread.

LGF hater talking point- that's what it is.

292 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:37:55pm

re: #266 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Unforgiveable

Ambushed Marines' Aid Call 'Rejected'


Oh S--- they didn't! Are we trying to Vietnam-ize Afganistan?

293 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:37:56pm

re: #152 Syrah

I hope you are right that the nutters will leave the main parties & go off and form their own nutter parties.

But I think that if the nutters think they have any real grip on a major party, they will stay there, because they want the power that comes along with a major party.

And It looks like to me, that the nutters think they have the major parties, and that the rest of us will have to make a new party, or revive the Whigs.

294 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:38:05pm

OT:
Another drug rehab center mass murder in Mexico - 10 dead. Third mass murder at a drug rehab center this year.

295 Randall Gross  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:38:06pm

re: #283 lawhawk

I was referring to Beck, not you. That's the He I was referring to when replying to Thanos above. I never suggested or implied that you were a birther.

Sensitive is as sensitive does, I understood what you were saying, but then I'm not standing in a barrel full of bile like some are.

296 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:38:29pm

re: #260 Thanos

The fact is that Fox and Beck have gone into a cycle of rehashing the election, will Beck be their Rather? If he keeps following the kookspiracists leads you can almost bet on it.

I used to think it was just a matter of time before Beck said or did something so outrageous that no one would take him seriously any more except the kookiest of the kooks.

Then he did that completely batshit crazy show about the Rockefeller Center, and -- nothing. Nobody on the right even blinked.

Ideas that come straight out of the John Birch Society's paranoid craziness on a national cable network -- and nobody seems to care.

I agree with the final sentence of my quote above -- the Republican base is headed into very very weird territory.

297 SixDegrees  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:38:52pm

re: #265 Dianna

Do you ever wonder if this is another example of television hypnosis? Do people become suggestible because of the flicker, and then can't resist the suggestion?

Or are people so overwhelmed by disinformation that they can't tell what's true any more? That is my suspicion, personally.

I think you've got your causality backwards. Today's television market, with dozens or even hundreds of channels, is horribly fragmented. It doesn't make any sense nowadays to find shows that appeal to a broad spectrum of viewers - you'll never rope in enough to make it worthwhile. It's far better to cater to extremism and carve yourself out a niche among some narrow range of whackadoos, and own that whole market all to yourself Hence stations like the Food Network, the Travel Channel, the channel that does nothing but home remodeling stuff...And now we have Fox: the Station of Crazy Bigoted Assholes, all Birchers, all the time.

The market is already out there. Fox is just trying to attract it, and the best way for them to do so is to amplify the rhetoric.

298 turn  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:38:52pm

Holy shit, I just got an email from turnspawn2's Jesuit high school. The parents of one of the boys were murdered in their house last night. No other details yet. I'm going to search Sacbee now ...

299 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:39:06pm
300 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:39:11pm

re: #291 Sharmuta

LGF hater talking point- that's what it is.

Agreed, I do not mind people arguing opposing viewpoints, but I take offense at ignorance.

301 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:39:13pm

re: #290 Killgore Trout

I asked the same question earlier on my blog. Are they hoping to smoke out these guys and make them do something stupid so that they can be caught off guard? Something is still off about the whole thing...

302 subsailor68  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:39:20pm

re: #253 Cato the Elder

Sorry. I had just been discriminated against - again - for having a service dog. And they you come along and say you don't want me and my dog next to you in a restaurant unless I'm blind. I was a tad flummoxed.

If I ever get out to your neck of the woods, I will take you and yours out to dinner with Haku, my canine savior. I hope you will accept the invitation.

Hi Cato! It's inexcusable to discriminate against ANYONE with a service dog. That said, I'd go one step further. We loved the pubs in rural England. In almost every one, there was at least one dog. (In France, I hear, folks take them to restaurants.)

It's hard to get into a bar fight when there's a fluffy little Bichon sitting there with a little saucer of ale and a packet of crisps!

303 Randall Gross  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:39:36pm

re: #288 Fluffy Bunny

:)
Seriously, most bloggers and extensive commenters could never run for public office simply because there's enough online that enough quotes could be cherry picked out of context to destroy your chances at office.

304 Athos  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:39:39pm

re: #270 calcajun

But, that's the dilemma-- the GOP wants their votes, but not their ideology. If the GOP banishes the loons, then the GOP risks another Ross Perot in 2012-- which would be equally disastrous. To quote Jefferson, it's like holding a wolf by the ears; you don't like it but you don't dare let go.

How many votes, really, did Laup Nor get despite all the millions he raised and all the kerfuffle?

No, the GOP has to toss the loons out, and run as representing the sane center-right. The current President cannot run as a centrist in 2012 based on his actions - so the center in this country needs a valid alternative that is loon-less. If Luap Nor or Beck or PB or Jindal decide to run at the front of the Bircher Confederate Fundamentalist Party - they will not get anywhere close to the totals that Perot got.

305 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:40:04pm

re: #276 Buckeye Nation

Because I don't follow LGF doctrine, I must be a 'birther?' Sorry to rain on your parade, but I'm not.

Is this the wind up to the flounce?

306 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:40:37pm

re: #284 Sharmuta

re: #285 Bagua

Yeah there is. I proved ColorofChange was wrong, I get dinged. I show evidence that 9/12 crowd was larger than 65k, I get dinged. I support Beck going after ACORN, I get dinged.

It seems if you have an opposing view around here people go after you. I decided to start posting to give a different point of view and have a honest discussion. G-d knows this place needs it.

307 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:40:40pm

re: #300 Bagua

Agreed, I do not mind people arguing opposing viewpoints, but I take offense at ignorance.

I take offense with the "doctrine" meme. It's a lie and complete distortion of LGF.

308 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:41:02pm

re: #279 DaddyG

I wish people would educate themselves. I have a friend who places service dogs with severe diabetics so they can detect an attack before their human even suspects. Service dogs are for more than the blind (but they are very cool there too).

Yes! And there are dogs who can sense an epileptic attack far enough in advance so the person has the time to seek out a safe place and take their meds. Most fatalities from epilepsy are from falling down the stairs or getting run over, not from the attack itself.

Without my dog and the one who came before him, I would not be sitting here typing this. Fact.

And looking into his eyes is one reason I know there's a God.

309 SixDegrees  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:41:11pm

re: #290 Killgore Trout

Attention Islamic Terrorists in the New York area who are planing to bomb the subways...
FBI unit set for more anti-terror raids in Queens; Fears of Madrid-style subway bombings - sources

Since when do they announce these raids in the press beforehand?

As others have pointed out, somethin' about this story ain't right.

310 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:41:14pm

re: #276 Buckeye Nation

There is no "doctrine" here.

311 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:41:19pm

re: #301 lawhawk

Something is still off about the whole thing...


Yeah, it's very strange. The guy in Colorado is supposedly the focal point of the investigation and he's giving interviews to the press. He knows nothing about it aside from what he reads in the press. The whole thing doesn't make sense.

312 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:41:43pm

re: #306 Buckeye Nation

re: #285 Bagua

Yeah there is. I proved ColorofChange was wrong, I get dinged. I show evidence that 9/12 crowd was larger than 65k, I get dinged.

You didn't prove any such thing, and your "evidence" was laughable.

313 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:42:04pm

re: #306 Buckeye Nation

re: #285 Bagua

Yeah there is. I proved ColorofChange was wrong, I get dinged. I show evidence that 9/12 crowd was larger than 65k, I get dinged. I support Beck going after ACORN, I get dinged.

It seems if you have an opposing view around here people go after you. I decided to start posting to give a different point of view and have a honest discussion. G-d knows this place needs it.

You're whirling a bit faster.

314 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:42:20pm

re: #292 DaddyG

Oh S--- they didn't! Are we trying to Vietnam-ize Afganistan?

I'm pissed beyond words right now. They let those men die due to stupid political posturing.

315 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:42:28pm

re: #306 Buckeye Nation

Huh? Charles posted that he thought the crowd was around 100,000, and others here think it's higher. I think it's around 500,000. So does that mean your groupthink/doctrine stuff is nonsense? I think it does.

316 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:42:43pm

/chanting/ flounce, flounce, flounce...

317 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:42:50pm

re: #310 Ojoe

There is no "doctrine" here.

And to suggest otherwise is heresy!

318 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:42:58pm

re: #276 Buckeye Nation

Are you suggesting what the deuce site openly claims. That we all walk in lockstep with what Charles says? If so, you are full of sh*t.

319 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:43:09pm

re: #308 Cato the Elder

And looking into [my dogs] eyes is one reason I know there's a God.

Are you dyslexic or was that a profound statement of faith in a loving creator? /

320 researchok  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:43:10pm

re: #290 Killgore Trout

I suspect they made the announcement to try and flush out others, if there are any.

The timing is also important. The Rosh Hashana Jewish holiday starts this weekend. Everyone knows synagogues are well protected in the post 9/11 world. Blowing up trains that go into Jewish neighborhoods a day or two prior to the holidays would cause incalculable grief

321 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:43:12pm

When will the fan get snapped and the petticoat get swept back?

322 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:43:33pm

re: #306 Buckeye Nation

re: #285 Bagua

Yeah there is. I proved ColorofChange was wrong, I get dinged. I show evidence that 9/12 crowd was larger than 65k, I get dinged. I support Beck going after ACORN, I get dinged.

It seems if you have an opposing view around here people go after you. I decided to start posting to give a different point of view and have a honest discussion. G-d knows this place needs it.

You are by definition: A Dingbat

323 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:43:48pm

re: #306 Buckeye Nation

Yeah there is. I proved ColorofChange was wrong, I get dinged. I show evidence that 9/12 crowd was larger than 65k, I get dinged. I support Beck going after ACORN, I get dinged.

Has it occurred to you that you may be getting some dings for being an ass?

324 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:43:54pm

re: #317 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

LOL

We're all mad here...

—Chesire Cat

325 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:43:56pm

Is a vial of smelling salts being uncapped?

326 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:44:22pm

re: #323 Sharmuta

Has it occurred to you that you may be getting some dings for being an ass?

Ding, Ding Ding!!!

327 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:44:28pm

re: #323 Sharmuta

Assding and you shall receive.

328 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:44:31pm

re: #323 Sharmuta

Has it occurred to you that you may be getting some dings for being an ass?

The lace-edged hankie is definitely gonna' get whipped out for that one.

329 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:44:41pm

hey all...

So just to set the record straight...

OK...

Obama is STAN, now that Al Gore isn't. Beck is the Second Coming now that Palin isn't and...

5,000,000,000 Americans came to the mall to prove it.

Glad to clear that up.

330 Randall Gross  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:44:51pm

Willfull ignorance around here is usually dinged.

331 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:44:53pm

re: #325 MandyManners

Is a vial of smelling salts being uncapped?

Has someone got a case of the vapors?

332 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:45:00pm

BBL

4 Bbl Carb

333 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:45:50pm

re: #331 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Has someone got a case of the vapors?

It's all part of a good, old-fashioned flounce.

334 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:46:22pm

We're still on ACORN? Here's my suggestion: Ignore ACORN. I'm told by conservatives that the government shouldn't stimulate the economy and that the free markets should take care of it. How about organizing free market solutions to help the housing market? How about working on free market solutions to create jobs? If the government isn't needed then the fact that Republicans can't get the votes is irrelevant. How about doing something productive with all this energy?

Imagine if Beck took all the airtime he devotes to ACORN and czars and focused on creating free market solutions?

335 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:46:23pm

re: #329 LudwigVanQuixote

From 57 states. /you have to be complete when you do these things. ///

336 Dreader1962  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:46:30pm

re: #302 subsailor68

Hi Cato! It's inexcusable to discriminate against ANYONE with a service dog. That said, I'd go one step further. We loved the pubs in rural England. In almost every one, there was at least one dog. (In France, I hear, folks take them to restaurants.)

It's hard to get into a bar fight when there's a fluffy little Bichon sitting there with a little saucer of ale and a packet of crisps!

I agree - the UK is much more open to dogs in public places and during my visit there I was never disturbed by dogs in pubs or other places. I find myself more irritated by children in restaurants than anything else.

337 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:46:39pm

re: #322 Bagua

re: #323 Sharmuta

I'm not sorry for posting opposing evidence here. I didn't know that was crime. I would suggest that LGF then de-link, Hot Air, NRO, and the Weekly Standard (and the Atlantic I guess). This is where I get most of my info.

338 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:46:49pm

re: #277 Thanos

Declined, I have 24K+ comments here, I am unelectable.

LOL

339 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:47:04pm

re: #306 Buckeye Nation

Take a deep breath and stay here.

340 turn  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:47:28pm

This is getting a little too close to home. The 16 year old is named Colton, poor guy. dang

[Link: blog.drivinglaws.org...]

341 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:47:31pm

Oh, and ACORN has suspended new intakes pending an independent review of its operations.

342 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:48:02pm

re: #335 lawhawk

From 57 states. /you have to be complete when you do these things. ///

I am so sorry, How could I forget!

343 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:48:05pm

re: #334 Killgore Trout

But its easier to rouse a mob against something rather than for something, especially when you dont have anything positive to offer.

344 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:48:14pm

BBL

345 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:48:24pm

re: #302 subsailor68

When my brother was living in Denmark, he was amazed at first by how many people took their dogs to public buildings. He had a conversation with a friend about it that went something like thiss:

"I can't believe people take their dogs everywhere here!"

"Why not?"

"Well, what if you took your dog to the bank and he took a shit on the floor?"

"If I could train my dog to do that, I would take him to the bank every day!"

346 Dreader1962  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:48:32pm

re: #329 LudwigVanQuixote

hey all...

So just to set the record straight...

OK...

Obama is STAN, now that Al Gore isn't. Beck is the Second Coming now that Palin isn't and...

5,000,000,000 Americans came to the mall to prove it.

Glad to clear that up.

Who is Stan?

347 theheat  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:48:35pm

re: #334 Killgore Trout

I've been thinking the same thing. If they devoted even a tiny fraction to real world solutions as they do knee-jerk hysterics, they might actually appeal to a majority population. As is, they have zero appeal to anyone rational.

Well, I suppose their mothers still love them, but other than that...

348 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:48:43pm

re: #339 Ojoe

Thanks for not going after me, like every one else.

349 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:49:01pm

re: #330 Thanos

Willfull ignorance around here is usually dinged.

I think it's fair to ask in Buckeye Nation's case, is it indeed willful, or the blindness of bias and a lazy or uneducated mind?

In all sincerity Buckeye, as you know you are at a site where you have learned and admired in the past, why not take the time to work through the threads over the last few weeks, get up to speed and give Charles and the multitude of forum members (on the right, middle and left) the benefit of the doubt? You could learn something of value.

350 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:49:36pm

re: #346 Dreader1962

Who is Stan?

The evil Horned one... The inventor of disco... That guy...

351 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:49:44pm

re: #348 Buckeye Nation

OK. Stay here & grow. Now I have to get to work.

352 bosforus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:49:54pm

re: #167 DaddyG

Thanks- and I should add that the Lizard community is remarkably respectful of the Mormons who post here and our unique theology and culutre in general. It is one of the reasons this is my primary work avoidance blog.

I really should relax around the Lizards - they have given me no reason to worry about rumors or innuendo.

Thanks scaly friends.

Allow me jump in your boat. And a big Mormon hello to you from sunny, I mean, cloudy Provo.

353 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:50:11pm

re: #346 Dreader1962

Who is Stan?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

354 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:50:20pm

re: #341 lawhawk

Oh, and ACORN has suspended new intakes pending an independent review of its operations.

Get the Fannie Mae Audit Committee right on that. /

355 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:50:21pm

re: #337 Buckeye Nation

re: #323 Sharmuta

I'm not sorry for posting opposing evidence here. I didn't know that was crime. I would suggest that LGF then de-link, Hot Air, NRO, and the Weekly Standard (and the Atlantic I guess). This is where I get most of my info.

Are the widdle slippers about to stomp?

356 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:50:55pm

I'm done poking.

357 Dreader1962  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:51:00pm

re: #350 LudwigVanQuixote

The evil Horned one... The inventor of disco... That guy...

Hmmm... Being a former member of 'DREAD', I don't think I'd like him.

(Bonus points for those who know the acronym!)

358 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:51:06pm

re: #334 Killgore Trout

How about organizing free market solutions to help the housing market?
How about the gov't not insisting that banks/ mortgage co's approve people that aren't worthy? Seems as if that worked for eons before Barney Frank et al INSISTED that they were discrimintaing!
How about working on free market solutions to create jobs? How about the gov't CUT corpoprate tax rates. Works EVERY time,EVERY place it;s been tried

359 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:51:27pm

re: #350 LudwigVanQuixote

The evil Horned one... The inventor of disco... That guy...

Oh we're going to a hukilau
A huki huki huki huki hukilau
Everybody loves the hukilau
Where the laulau is the kaukau at the luau

We throw our nets out into the sea
And all the amaama come a swimming to me
Oh, we're going to a hukilau
A huki huki huki hukilau

(BTW Disco ftw!)

360 Dreader1962  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:51:45pm

re: #353 ArchangelMichael

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Ah - I wasn't aware of this lizardism.

361 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:51:52pm

re: #348 Buckeye Nation

I apologize.

362 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:51:53pm

re: #330 Thanos

Willfull ignorance around here is usually dinged. dung

Pun intended.

363 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:52:02pm

re: #352 bosforus

Allow me jump in your boat. And a big Mormon hello to you from sunny, I mean, cloudy Provo.


Oh, so you are one of those Happy Valley Mormons?! ;-)

364 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:52:09pm

I love the smell of flounce in the morning. Smells like victory.

365 bosforus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:52:28pm

As a Mormon, can I just say how happy I was a few months ago to walk through the BYU bookstore and see books like, The First 4 Billion Years.

366 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:52:32pm

re: #356 MandyManners

I'm done poking.

in bed?

367 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:52:42pm

re: #348 Buckeye Nation

Thanks for not going after me, like every one else.

Ok, and notice I wrote something similar before I saw Ojoe's post. It is your choice to either go with the angry mob or have your ideas challenged and perhaps learn something.

368 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:53:00pm

re: #357 Dreader1962

Hmmm... Being a former member of 'DREAD', I don't think I'd like him.

(Bonus points for those who know the acronym!)

You have piqued my interest...

I am assuming not dreadlocks... Perhaps a horror movie fan?

369 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:53:16pm

re: #329 LudwigVanQuixote

So just to set the record straight...
Obama is STAN

so, who's Ollie?//

370 turn  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:53:51pm

re: #348 Buckeye Nation

Thanks for not going after me, like every one else.

Why don't you just go hang out at Beck's site?
//
I'm late to the thread, what's up BN?

371 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:54:05pm

re: #357 Dreader1962

Hmmm... Being a former member of 'DREAD', I don't think I'd like him.

(Bonus points for those who know the acronym!)

Damage potential, Reproducibility, Exploitability, Affected Users, Discoverability

372 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:54:09pm

re: #365 bosforus

As a Mormon, can I just say how happy I was a few months ago to walk through the BYU bookstore and see books like, The First 4 Billion Years.


Hey pick me up some fudge and a Cougar sweatshirt!

373 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:54:24pm

re: #349 Bagua

That will be hard since I feel Charles is out to get me. He has dinged a lot of my posts. I've been following this website for a very long time and it has changed a lot. I'll try to stay, but I don't know what comment will get me banned or not. I feel it doesn't take much these days.

374 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:54:41pm

re: #359 Locker

Oh we're going to a hukilau
A huki huki huki huki hukilau
Everybody loves the hukilau
Where the laulau is the kaukau at the luau

We throw our nets out into the sea
And all the amaama come a swimming to me
Oh, we're going to a hukilau
A huki huki huki hukilau

(BTW Disco ftw!)

I REBUKE YOU! Evil one, I say I Rebuke you!

Now everyone, send me money so my ministry can keep rebuking evil like this...

375 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:55:06pm

re: #369 calcajun

so, who's Ollie?//

Oh wow, love the reference!

376 Dreader1962  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:55:27pm

re: #368 LudwigVanQuixote

You have piqued my interest...

I am assuming not dreadlocks... Perhaps a horror movie fan?

Thought you might be familiar because you said you had family in Michigan (note that this is a clue...)

377 baier  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:55:28pm

I still can't believe Glenn Beck went after Charles for being a musician, like it was a bad thing. Thinking about that still pisses me off. I was in the arts for years (and still crack the boards from time to time). I hate to think that some idiot (outside of a Hooters) would try and hold it against me. I took it personally.

378 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:55:30pm

Gotta' git.

379 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:55:33pm

re: #373 Buckeye Nation

and in 19...9...8...

380 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:55:39pm

re: #373 Buckeye Nation

That will be hard since I feel Charles is out to get me. He has dinged a lot of my posts. I've been following this website for a very long time and it has changed a lot. I'll try to stay, but I don't know what comment will get me banned or not. I feel it doesn't take much these days.

Buckeye I'm glad you are around and you stimulate conversation. I believe as long as you remain civil and follow the guidelines then you can take any opinion you want and it will be fine.

381 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:55:46pm

re: #334 Killgore Trout

We're still on ACORN?

Oh ,, and by the way

Had my mid year review a couple of months ago

I was told I can still multi task!

382 bosforus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:55:49pm

re: #363 DaddyG

Oh, so you are one of those Happy Valley Mormons?! ;-)

Kind of. I'm a Phoenix natve (not Mesa, Chandler, Tempe or Gilbert! I can't stress that enough). I also don't watch football so there go my chances of participating in any Elder's Quorum conversations. Typical story though, came here for school and got hitched and a job. Now I'm stuck here. But that's OK, Utah's beautiful and I love it.

383 turn  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:55:51pm

re: #353 ArchangelMichael

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Does BabbaZee hang out at that stalker site?

384 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:55:58pm

This Beck guy must be the most powerful person since Walter Cronkite in his heyday. He not only persuaded the Democrat-controlled Senate to shut off ACORN funding, he even coerced the White House into denouncing the behavior of ACORN employees, and intimidated the nefarious gang itself into announcing drastic reforms.

Is there no limit to his power, wisdom and blessings?
/

385 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:56:24pm

re: #369 calcajun

so, who's Ollie?//

And who are Kukla and Fran?

386 bosforus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:56:30pm

re: #372 DaddyG

Hey pick me up some fudge and a Cougar sweatshirt!

It's all about the peanut butter fudge bars if you ask me.

387 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:56:35pm

re: #373 Buckeye Nation

You paranoid ass. If there was a doctrine like you asserted above, you wouldn't have your account to tell us about your paranoia. You sound like you believe the lies they spread at the stalker blog about your host.

388 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:56:36pm

re: #371 Locker

Damage potential, Reproducibility, Exploitability, Affected Users, Discoverability

That was the DREAD I was thinking of, but I don't think that's what is being referenced... gee, tells you what business we're involved with, doesn't it?

389 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:56:40pm

re: #271 Cato the Elder

I only think that on really, really bad days.

390 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:56:47pm

re: #379 Bubblehead II

So is it your job to set up the guillotine?

391 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:57:35pm

re: #384 Shiplord Kirel

This Beck guy must be the most powerful person since Walter Cronkite in his heyday. He not only persuaded the Democrat-controlled Senate to shut off ACORN funding, he even coerced the White House into denouncing the behavior of ACORN employees, and intimidated the nefarious gang itself into announcing drastic reforms.

Is there no limit to his power, wisdom and blessings?
/

Word is he's preparing a draft allowing the Nile river to flood at specified times during the year.

392 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:57:43pm

re: #374 LudwigVanQuixote

I REBUKE YOU! Evil one, I say I Rebuke you!

Now everyone, send me money so my ministry can keep rebuking evil like this...

[Link:blogspot.com... Disco + Satan ]

393 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:57:47pm

re: #382 bosforus
I was a married grad student at BYU and couldn't wait to leave town and go to a "real" ward. But I would love to visit again and I miss my old friends.

Knock a cold one back at the creamery for me!

394 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:57:48pm

re: #361 MandyManners

I apologize.

That is good of you Mandy, I think we have to differentiate from people who are willfully ignorant and full of anger and hate and those who are simply confused or being misled by the chorus out there.

We are a bit jaded here because we have seen so much unfair hatred and anger directed at Charles for his work exposing the lunacy on the Right.

395 bosforus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:58:00pm

re: #373 Buckeye Nation

Start a blog and when people start telling you they don't like it, see how long it takes you to not delete them.

396 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:58:01pm

The martyr cookies are still warm from the oven.

397 Buckeye Nation  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:58:15pm

re: #387 Sharmuta

It's the talk of the town at Hot Air. Sharmuta, stop being so bitter. It's okay to know people with opposing views.

398 Dreader1962  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:58:22pm

re: #388 MrSilverDragon

That was the DREAD I was thinking of, but I don't think that's what is being referenced... gee, tells you what business we're involved with, doesn't it?

Nope! Try again!

I'll post the answer soon.

399 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:59:00pm

re: #398 Dreader1962

Nope! Try again!

I'll post the answer soon.

Not the Polish Punk band, is it?

Cool!

400 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:59:06pm

re: #397 Buckeye Nation

Yeah, one of them at this blog is one of my dearest friends, so piss off.

401 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:59:09pm

re: #388 MrSilverDragon

That was the DREAD I was thinking of, but I don't think that's what is being referenced... gee, tells you what business we're involved with, doesn't it?

Ah the life of a coder. It pays the bills and I get to work in the air conditioning. I'm not hating.

402 Dreader1962  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:59:11pm

re: #390 Buckeye Nation

So is it your job to set up the guillotine?

No, actually the setup is the flouncer beginning to act like an oppressed 'victim'.

403 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:59:47pm

re: #397 Buckeye Nation

I can only take so much whining. Some people refuse to be talked down from the ledge.

404 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:59:50pm

re: #385 Mad Al-Jaffee

A hardy attempt at a pun, but alas it will garner you no laurels.

405 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 12:59:58pm

re: #402 Dreader1962

No, actually the setup is the flouncer beginning to act like an oppressed 'victim'.

Now we see the violence inherent in the system!

406 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:00:04pm

re: #394 Bagua

We are a bit jaded here because we have seen so much unfair hatred and anger directed at Charles for his work exposing the lunacy on the Right.

Is there a similar counterpart on the left that is holding the left wing bloggers accountable? I've been wondering that for a while now. In all seriousness.

407 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:00:21pm

re: #390 Buckeye Nation

Nope, but then again, lemmings don't need any help in running off the edge of the cliff.

408 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:00:27pm

re: #373 Buckeye Nation

That will be hard since I feel Charles is out to get me. He has dinged a lot of my posts. I've been following this website for a very long time and it has changed a lot. I'll try to stay, but I don't know what comment will get me banned or not. I feel it doesn't take much these days.

Buckeye, the down dings are rebukes, they do not equal being banned. You should not personalise this, rather, it is not you but your assertions which are being down-dinged. If you in fact respect this site and its author, take some time to chill and read through all the material. You may come to understand that way.

409 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:00:33pm

re: #297 SixDegrees

If I watched much TV, I think I'd be better able to agree or disagree.

I can't stand the 24/7 bleeding news cycle. Most shows strike me as either cliche or vulgar, though I like puzzle shows. Mostly, it's all too loud. So in a lot of ways, I'm completely out of the loop.

410 subsailor68  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:00:40pm

re: #395 bosforus

Hi bosforus! So you're in Provo? Loved that town. Did quite a bit of work in Clearfield, and made it a point to stay up there. Had a (well actually two) terrific steak at the Ruby River Steakhouse!

411 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:00:41pm

re: #373 Buckeye Nation

That will be hard since I feel Charles is out to get me. He has dinged a lot of my posts. I've been following this website for a very long time and it has changed a lot. I'll try to stay, but I don't know what comment will get me banned or not. I feel it doesn't take much these days.

Well let me make it simple then.

You can argue with Charles all you like, provided you don't insult him. You are still here, therefore you didn't do this.

You can disagree with us all you like provided you don't diss the site directly.

You might notice that people do actually disagree with Charles. However, that is generally done in a way where we think his analysis is off and we respectfully tell him why. He is actually a very thoughtful type. I have seen him evaluate evidence and change his stance when presented with good facts on more than one occasion. And that is a trait to be lauded. He has also swayed me more than once.

However, there is a huge difference between that and throwing a tantrum at the man. Since so many do throw tantrums at him in rather vile ways, he has the right to be a little cranky with disrespectful people.

412 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:01:31pm

re: #404 calcajun

A hardy attempt at a pun, but alas it will garner you no laurels.

I can try to post one Abbot another classic comedy team.

413 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:01:39pm

Allow me to post for the blocked

HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!

414 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:01:56pm

re: #402 Dreader1962

No, actually the setup is the flouncer beginning to act like an oppressed 'victim'.

I don't disagree with you but that doesn't mean we can't do our best to talk someone down rather than encouraging them to jump. Even being here in any form other than a pure flamer shows the willingness to have a discussion and consider some other opinions. I'd like those folks to remain around if possible and if they can stay within accepted parameters.

415 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:02:09pm

re: #376 Dreader1962

Thought you might be familiar because you said you had family in Michigan (note that this is a clue...)

I actually don't have family in Michigan... I like the state. But I am also noticing your nic...

Please do tell...

416 McSpiff  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:02:39pm

Afternoons lizards

417 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:02:44pm

re: #413 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Allow me to post for the blocked

HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!


Almost down dinged you just to be snotty - but I don't have the heart to leave it there.

418 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:03:03pm

re: #397 Buckeye Nation

It's the talk of the town at Hot Air. Sharmuta, stop being so bitter. It's okay to know people with opposing views.


That may be so, but don't drop in here and accuse us of all walking lock-step with Charles when someone disagrees with you. Charles disagrees with you so he dings you down. some agree, some don't. If you expect to be taken seriously, take a position and defend it. Dont be a pussy and whine about other web sites when we disagree with you. In case you have not noticed, there are a few very liberal and people here who are routinely criticized, but taken seriously because they have conviction.

Man up

419 bosforus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:03:34pm

re: #410 subsailor68

Orange sunsets on the mountains are worth sticking around for if you ask me.

420 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:03:45pm

If someone is determined to jump off the ledge the only thing you can do is make sure you aren't standing right beneath them.

421 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:03:54pm

O Rly?


Connie Rhodes "Birther" Challenge Thrown Out, Taitz Scolded

Land also put attorney Orly Taitz, who represents Capt. Connie Rhodes and is a leader in the national "birther" movement, on notice by stating that she could face sanctions if she ever files a similar "frivolous" lawsuit in his court.


"(Rhodes) has presented no credible evidence and has made no reliable factual allegations to support her unsubstantiated, conclusory allegations and conjecture that President Obama is ineligible to serve as president of the United States," Land states in his order. "Instead, she uses her complaint as a platform for spouting political rhetoric, such as her claims that the president is 'an illegal usurper, an unlawful pretender, [and] an unqualified imposter.'"

422 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:04:41pm

re: #403 Charles

I can only take so much whining. Some people refuse to be talked down from the ledge.

That one reeked of agenda.

423 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:04:58pm

re: #421 Killgore Trout

O Rly?


Connie Rhodes "Birther" Challenge Thrown Out, Taitz Scolded


Its a konspirazy I teelz ya! Even the coorts r in on it!

424 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:05:10pm

re: #406 DaddyG

Is there a similar counterpart on the left that is holding the left wing bloggers accountable? I've been wondering that for a while now. In all seriousness.


Not that I'm aware of, it seems more a case of choosing sides and then running with the herd. There are very few sites such as this that hold to intellectual honesty above partisan creed. Very few and far between, personally I can't name even one on this side of the pond.

425 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:05:17pm

re: #406 DaddyG

Is there a similar counterpart on the left that is holding the left wing bloggers accountable? I've been wondering that for a while now. In all seriousness.

That's a fair question. I don't think it's very common for people to actually take a stand against their own traditional allies. It requires a more than normal helping of nut sack to deal with all the bullshit. What I mean is that LGF, while not a singularity, stands out in it's willingness to call bullshit regardless of the source.

Brendan Nyhan, who Charles linked to earlier, is another source I enjoy who will call it like he sees it. I encourage you to look , put your own filter on it and report back if you find something worthwhile.

426 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:05:55pm

re: #416 McSpiff

Afternoons lizards

A Canadian bloke is walking down the street with a case of beer under his arm.

His friend Randy stops him and asks, "Hey Dave! Whatcha got that case of beer for?"

"Well, I got it for my wife, you see?" answers Dave.

"Wow," exclaims Randy, "Great trade."

427 Dreader1962  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:06:18pm

re: #415 LudwigVanQuixote

I actually don't have family in Michigan... I like the state. But I am also noticing your nic...

Please do tell...

DREAD
Detroit Rockers Engaged in the Abolition of Disco

Origin of DREAD

I was a member when I went to MSU in the early '80s.

428 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:06:34pm

re: #421 Killgore Trout

O Rly?


Connie Rhodes "Birther" Challenge Thrown Out, Taitz Scolded

Hooray!

Please, please let this nuttiness end!

429 McSpiff  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:06:46pm

re: #426 Locker

A Canadian bloke is walking down the street with a case of beer under his arm.

His friend Randy stops him and asks, "Hey Dave! Whatcha got that case of beer for?"

"Well, I got it for my wife, you see?" answers Dave.

"Wow," exclaims Randy, "Great trade."

Har Har Har. I can see the peanut gallery has arrived. :-D

430 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:07:02pm

re: #411 LudwigVanQuixote

Well let me make it simple then.

You can argue with Charles all you like, provided you don't insult him. You are still here, therefore you didn't do this.

You can disagree with us all you like provided you don't diss the site directly.

You might notice that people do actually disagree with Charles. However, that is generally done in a way where we think his analysis is off and we respectfully tell him why. He is actually a very thoughtful type. I have seen him evaluate evidence and change his stance when presented with good facts on more than one occasion. And that is a trait to be lauded. He has also swayed me more than once.

However, there is a huge difference between that and throwing a tantrum at the man. Since so many do throw tantrums at him in rather vile ways, he has the right to be a little cranky with disrespectful people.

Well said sir. Well said.

431 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:07:12pm

Woman rescued from captivity in Tulkarm

Ten former IDF combat soldiers rescued a US citizen and her two-and-a-half-year-old son from a Palestinian village in the Tulkarm area where they had been held captive for 3 years, Israel Radio revealed on Wednesday morning.

The woman, who had married a young Palestinian man she met in the United States, was being held captive in his house, together with their son. The man's first wife and four children from the first marriage also live in the house.

Wow.

432 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:07:23pm

re: #429 McSpiff

Har Har Har. I can see the peanut gallery has arrived. :-D

What's up brother?

433 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:07:49pm

re: #428 Dianna

Please, please let this nuttiness end!

I don't think that's an option.

434 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:08:23pm

Everybody think calm and bracing thoughts in my direction, please.

I have to call my mother.

435 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:08:55pm

re: #424 Bagua

re: #425 Locker

Thanks - I can't claim to be moderate but I'm not comfortable with the defense of radical politics. I disagree with Charles sometimes and don't feel things are as extreme on the "mainstream" as Killgore and Avanti have expressed but there is a need to keep the GOP honest lest the voice of small government and liberty winds up buried in the morass of madness.

436 Dianna  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:09:01pm

re: #433 Killgore Trout

I don't think that's an option.

I've been very much afraid of that.

437 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:09:39pm

re: #429 McSpiff

Har Har Har. I can see the peanut gallery has arrived. :-D

So a guy walks into a psychiatrist's office wearing nothing but saran wrap around his middle.

The Doctor says "I can see your('re) nuts".

438 McSpiff  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:09:47pm

re: #432 Locker

What's up brother?

The usual. Figured id check in on the lizards before supper.

439 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:10:48pm

re: #411 LudwigVanQuixote

However, there is a huge difference between that and throwing a tantrum at the man. Since so many do throw tantrums at him in rather vile ways, he has the right to be a little cranky with disrespectful people.

Not just disrespectful, but downright dishonest.

440 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:11:08pm

Oh frabjous day!

Czechvar beer, and an old cigar I found in my gun safe, and watching "The Shawshank Redemption" on Netflix Instant.

Anybody top that?

441 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:11:16pm

re: #434 Dianna

Everybody think calm and bracing thoughts in my direction, please.

I have to call my mother.

Is she the Antichrist?
Yes _
No _
Not Sure _

442 Flyovercountry  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:11:57pm

re: #248 Athos

The parallel to this day is similar - if the GOP doesn't exorcise the Birchers, Nirthers, Paulians, neo-confederates, extreme fundalmentalists from the party, then mainstream America will turn its back on the party because of their association with these nitwits - just like they turned their back on the America Firsters in the almost 70 years ago.

I think you have said it as good as it can be said. I would just add that for me personally, I would like to see a return to core principles, self reliance, free markets, transparency, limited government, free speech, the right to bear arms, etc. The other elephant in the room is the attempt of the Republican Party to Pander to liberal voters.

443 Kragar  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:12:37pm

We may have to attack Iran by Dec.

Israel will be compelled to attack Iran's nuclear facilities if Western powers do not impose serious sanctions against Teheran by the end of 2009, former deputy defense minister Ephraim Sneh said on Wednesday.

"We cannot live under the shadow of an Iran with nuclear weapons," he was quoted as telling Reuters, in an interview on a visit to the UK. "By the end of the year, if there is no agreement on crippling sanctions aimed at this regime, we will have no choice."

Sneh reportedly stressed that a military strike would be "the very, very last resort. But ironically it is our best friends and allies who are pushing us into a corner where we would have no option but to do it.

444 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:12:41pm

re: #440 Cato the Elder

Oh frabjous day!

Czechvar beer, and an old cigar I found in my gun safe, and watching "The Shawshank Redemption" on Netflix Instant.

Anybody top that?

Maybe. I'm still at work, but I plan to have pho for dinner tonight.

445 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:12:44pm

re: #437 rwdflynavy
Which rminds me...

Naked Motorcyclist Stopped, Arrested On I-75

When asked where he had been, Krauss stated, "I don’t know." Also, Krauss admitted he had been drinking and Rolls said there was a mild odor of alcohol emitting from him and his eyes were watery and bloodshot.

"I'm just trying to figure out why you don’t have any clothes on," the deputy said.

"Me too," Krauss replied.

446 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:13:16pm

re: #440 Cato the Elder

Oh frabjous day!

Czechvar beer, and an old cigar I found in my gun safe, and watching "The Shawshank Redemption" on Netflix Instant.

Anybody top that?


Clinging to your guns, cigars, beer and Netflix?

Nope, can't top that day.

447 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:13:40pm

...And now we have Fox: the Station of Crazy Bigoted Assholes, all Birchers, all the time.

The market is already out there. Fox is just trying to attract it, and the best way for them to do so is to amplify the rhetoric
re: #297 SixDegrees

so based on what Beck is saying your trashing the entire Fox News org ?

Its obvious you don't actually watch the other programs because if you think Bill O'reilly and the others are "Crazy bIGOTED aSSHOLES " than whats MSNBC and the others to you ?

Sorry, but I don't buy your nonsense !

448 cronus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:13:40pm

OT: Wash Post's Chris Cillizza

GOP source: Tim Pawlenty to announce shortly that he will direct state agencies to stop state funding for ACORN.

449 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:14:47pm

re: #445 DaddyG

One of the strangest EMS calls I had was for a naked man, passed out on a road. We heard he may have been hit by a car, so we boarded and collared him and treated him like a trauma patient. He woke up in either on the backboard or in the ambo and had no idea where he was, what had happened to him or where his clothes were. And he wasn't happy at all.

450 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:15:12pm

After reading the article above, now watch this...
Glenn Beck's facade starts cracking: How dare they compare me to McCarthy? I compare me to Murrow!


It all kinda makes sense now.

451 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:15:39pm

re: #435 DaddyG

re: #425 Locker

Thanks - I can't claim to be moderate but I'm not comfortable with the defense of radical politics. I disagree with Charles sometimes and don't feel things are as extreme on the "mainstream" as Killgore and Avanti have expressed but there is a need to keep the GOP honest lest the voice of small government and liberty winds up buried in the morass of madness.

I hope you do find a good source for the same information on the left. When you do you'll see that the "sides" are hardly different in structure with regard to radicals, moderates and "our side vs their side". Basically I don't think their is any more or less need to keep the GOP honest than there is to keep the Dems honest.

We all know the static can be deafening. Party rhetoric, focus on winning rather than issues, mud slinging taken to an insane level. I believe it's enclaves like this (LGF + Comments) where the determined few try to filter out the static and actually talk to each other. I don't see it getting any easier either. People love their bread and circuses.

452 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:16:03pm

re: #297 SixDegrees

"And now we have Fox: the Station of Crazy Bigoted Assholes, all Birchers, all the time."


Total absolute BUNK !

453 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:16:07pm

re: #444 Mad Al-Jaffee

Had pho for lunch today. It was glorious. Best part, I doubt I'll need dinner tonight because I'm nice and full.

454 cronus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:16:11pm
455 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:16:14pm

re: #438 McSpiff

The usual. Figured id check in on the lizards before supper.

Oh great, now we have to show IDs, what's next, biometrics?!?

/fumes, there's no freedom and privacy anymore.

456 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:16:33pm
457 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:17:00pm

re: #453 MrSilverDragon

Had pho for lunch today. It was glorious. Best part, I doubt I'll need dinner tonight because I'm nice and full.

If there was a pho place near work, I would eat lunch there at least once a week. There was one pretty close when I worked in Rosslyn, but none here in this part of DC.

458 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:17:01pm

re: #440 Cato the Elder

Oh frabjous day!

Czechvar beer, and an old cigar I found in my gun safe, and watching "The Shawshank Redemption" on Netflix Instant.

Anybody top that?

You didn't perhaps play Tdome ][ MUD did you?

459 bosforus  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:17:32pm

re: #454 cronus

OT: ACORN suspends, plans audit, in wake of videos

I wonder how voluntary that decision was.

460 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:17:50pm

re: #431 Killgore Trout

Woman rescued from captivity in Tulkarm

Wow.

And this is where I make a big point about the difference between the way that Islam gets practiced in different places in the world, and most importantly in different educational levels.

The tricky thing to talk about here is to glom too many people together in unfair ways - in both senses.

On the one side it is absolutely wrong and reprehensible to assume that a well meaning and good hearted Muslim is like this. On the other hand, it is blockheaded to refuse to see those manifestations of Islam that still persist in the M.E. and in certain communities for what it is.

I try to look at it the way that I look at Christianity or Judaism (as a whole in terms of practice). If I meet a religious Christian or Jew I assume that they are good folks and let them prove me wrong. I apply the same principle to Islam. The other side of the principle is that I know full well I do not care for Kahane types if I am talking about Jews, and I am deeply aware that the Klan and such consider themselves to be Christian.

The trick is to keep one's eyes always open, and to reject no data either way.

The even bigger trick is to judge individuals when faced with individuals. No group is monolithic.

The same principle applies the other way. I detest the medieval form of Muslim culture that is metastasizing in the world exactly as much as I hate Klansmen or neo nazis, and it is dangerous to be blind to it.

461 McSpiff  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:17:58pm

re: #450 Killgore Trout

After reading the article above, now watch this...
Glenn Beck's facade starts cracking: How dare they compare me to McCarthy? I compare me to Murrow!


[Video]

It all kinda makes sense now.

He doesn't even make sense. He just screams.

462 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:18:11pm

re: #459 bosforus

I wonder how voluntary that decision was.

iT WASN'T BECAUSE OF cbs/nbc/abc

463 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:18:24pm

re: #450 Killgore Trout

I forget- when did beck get subpoenaed by Congress again?

464 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:18:30pm

re: #447 Earth56

Sorry, but I don't buy your nonsense !

Cool it, or piss off, you are wrong and hysterical.

465 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:18:33pm

re: #440 Cato the Elder

Oh frabjous day!

Czechvar beer, and an old cigar I found in my gun safe, and watching "The Shawshank Redemption" on Netflix Instant.

Anybody top that?

Well, yes... but I can't write about it here ;)

466 saylorfam  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:19:22pm

re: #383 turn

She hangs out on her own blog.

467 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:19:32pm

re: #461 McSpiff

He's fighting long dead communists from the 1950's. Tilting at the windmills in his mind.

468 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:19:40pm

re: #456 Killgore Trout

You know, when I woke up this morning I just wasn't expecting to see a video of a guy playing with himself on a streetcorner today.

469 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:20:05pm

re: #468 DaddyG

Heh.

470 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:20:26pm

re: #440 Cato the Elder

and an old cigar I found in my gun safe
Anybody top that?


Yeah-- a fresh cigar from a well-maintained humidor--and doesn't smell of gun oil.///

471 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:20:54pm

re: #455 Bagua

Oh great, now we have to show IDs, what's next, biometrics?!?

/fumes, there's no freedom and privacy anymore.

Hey I check IDs before dinner as well. No way I'm letting some dirty old Republican get any of my baked ziti. Huzzah! (Now a dirty, young and preferably brunette Republican might be ok.)

472 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:21:14pm

re: #464 Bagua

Cool it, or piss off, you are wrong and hysterical.


and just how wrong am I ?
Do you actually watch Fox or are parroting what certain folks try to paint based on third hand gibberish and one person named Beck ?

Please tell me oh great one !

473 Fluffy Bunny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:21:28pm

re: #440 Cato the Elder

The smell of pork roast in the oven, black beans in the crockpot, a cold glass of Riesling in my hand, a computer that no longer sounds like a 747 and two more hours of quiet time before the troops come in from work/daycare. It's the little things in life.

474 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:21:36pm

re: #467 Killgore Trout

Tilting at the windmills in his mind.

Is that original with you? It's one of those phrases I can't believe I haven't heard before this.

475 unrealizedviewpoint  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:21:38pm

re: #464 Bagua

Cool it, or piss off, you are wrong and hysterical.

This comment is needs cooling.

476 McSpiff  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:21:40pm

re: #467 Killgore Trout

He's fighting long dead communists from the 1950's. Tilting at the windmills in his mind.

I've had some point out to me here that communists are still active in the united states, so ill bite my tongue.

477 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:21:47pm

re: #427 Dreader1962

DREAD
Detroit Rockers Engaged in the Abolition of Disco

Origin of DREAD

I was a member when I went to MSU in the early '80s.

Sounds a lot like Steve Dahl's Insane Coho Lips club.

478 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:21:50pm

re: #373 Buckeye Nation

That will be hard since I feel Charles is out to get me. He has dinged a lot of my posts. I've been following this website for a very long time and it has changed a lot. I'll try to stay, but I don't know what comment will get me banned or not. I feel it doesn't take much these days.

I once was pushing -2000 Karma, but little by a clawed my way back. No one gets banned for negative Karma, you can be banned for being unreasonable. If we disagree with you, come back with a rational argument to support your position and we'll discuss it. Many of the arguments you've made were debunked here over and over in the past, so you'll need new data.

479 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:22:23pm

re: #473 Fluffy Bunny

The smell of pork roast in the oven, black beans in the crockpot, a cold glass of Riesling in my hand, a computer that no longer sounds like a 747 and two more hours of quiet time before the troops come in from work/daycare. It's the little things in life.

Mmm porkalicious.

480 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:22:24pm

re: #450 Killgore Trout

After reading the article above, now watch this...
Glenn Beck's facade starts cracking: How dare they compare me to McCarthy? I compare me to Murrow!


[Video]

It all kinda makes sense now.

What. A. Freak.

481 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:23:02pm

re: #478 avanti

I once was pushing -2000 Karma, but little by a clawed my way back. No one gets banned for negative Karma, you can be banned for being unreasonable. If we disagree with you, come back with a rational argument to support your position and we'll discuss it. Many of the arguments you've made were debunked here over and over in the past, so you'll need new data.

That's only funny because he's already banned.

482 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:23:24pm

re: #478 avanti

-2000?! That reminds me of the SNL Celebrity Jeopardy sketches!

483 turn  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:23:48pm

re: #466 saylorfam

She hangs out on her own blog.

Thanks ... she was very lively here years ago. Don't quite remember why she got banned, might have been a creationist.

484 Dreader1962  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:24:20pm

re: #447 Earth56


so based on what Beck is saying your trashing the entire Fox News org ?

Its obvious you don't actually watch the other programs because if you think Bill O'reilly and the others are "Crazy bIGOTED aSSHOLES " than whats MSNBC and the others to you ?

Sorry, but I don't buy your nonsense !

I stopped watching Fox News about a year before the elections. I was sick of the tabloid style and descent into agenda news. This did not make me join up with the Democratic Party, vote for Obama, adopt socialism or any other change to my viewpoint. I had been holding my nose for quite a while with them.

One reason was their constant 'FOX NEWS ALERT' crap. The other day, I passed by a TV in a doctor's office with Fox News on it and they had this displayed. When I looked closer, it was just that Obama was about to speak or something. They do this all the time during the day to cover banal stuff like a car chase. Basically, if it has video attached to it, you can expect Fox to run it into the ground.

485 turn  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:25:51pm

re: #473 Fluffy Bunny

The smell of pork roast in the oven, black beans in the crockpot, a cold glass of Riesling in my hand, a computer that no longer sounds like a 747 and two more hours of quiet time before the troops come in from work/daycare. It's the little things in life.

Dang, now I do want to come to dinner. That sounds fantastic!

486 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:26:36pm

re: #484 Dreader1962

I stopped watching Fox News about a year before the elections. I was sick of the tabloid style and descent into agenda news. This did not make me join up with the Democratic Party, vote for Obama, adopt socialism or any other change to my viewpoint. I had been holding my nose for quite a while with them.

One reason was their constant 'FOX NEWS ALERT' crap. The other day, I passed by a TV in a doctor's office with Fox News on it and they had this displayed. When I looked closer, it was just that Obama was about to speak or something. They do this all the time during the day to cover banal stuff like a car chase. Basically, if it has video attached to it, you can expect Fox to run it into the ground.

You see I just hate them for being lying crazy ultra-partisan shills with no desire to be factual.

487 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:26:56pm

re: #472 Earth56

and just how wrong am I ?
Do you actually watch Fox or are parroting what certain folks try to paint based on third hand gibberish and one person named Beck ?

Please tell me oh great one !

Actually I appologise, I see that you were quoting someone else, not lashing out with profanities yourself. My mistake.

re: #475 unrealizedviewpoint

This comment is needs cooling.

You are right, please see comment above.

488 Dreader1962  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:28:38pm

re: #481 wrenchwench

That's only funny because he's already banned.

Temporary, or permanent? I thought I was following the thread and while he was irritating, I didn't see him cross the line. He was running up to it, though. It's tiresome to see someone gripe about downdings. I think some are too liberal with them, but hey, that's freedom for you. I only downding someone who is being dishonorable in an argument or taking cheap shots.

I have noticed that some seem to target another member and downding nearly everything. That's not healthy.

489 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:29:22pm

re: #447 Earth56

...And now we have Fox: the Station of Crazy Bigoted Assholes, all Birchers, all the time.

The market is already out there. Fox is just trying to attract it, and the best way for them to do so is to amplify the rhetoric


so based on what Beck is saying your trashing the entire Fox News org ?

Its obvious you don't actually watch the other programs because if you think Bill O'reilly and the others are "Crazy bIGOTED aSSHOLES " than whats MSNBC and the others to you ?

Sorry, but I don't buy your nonsense !

No, beck is just one manifestation of it - and the most openly crazy. The fact is that Fox, in their regular news, carefully lies, distorts and promotes a false and dangerous agenda.

They are little more than the yellow journalists of an earlier age writ large.

490 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:29:25pm

re: #484 Dreader1962


I agree with most of what your saying but the alternative is what ?

Msnbc or the other cereal news orgs. which anger me far more than Fox for basically burying an important new story about ACORN.

Many here have just arrived from liberal blogs to basically trash FOX with a broad brush and paint it as Bigoted blah blah and blah...yet I am sure don't actually watch it to be so prejudiced.

491 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:29:57pm

re: #488 Dreader1962

Temporary, or permanent? I thought I was following the thread and while he was irritating, I didn't see him cross the line. He was running up to it, though. It's tiresome to see someone gripe about downdings. I think some are too liberal with them, but hey, that's freedom for you. I only downding someone who is being dishonorable in an argument or taking cheap shots.

I have noticed that some seem to target another member and downding nearly everything. That's not healthy.

I get that all the time. Stalkers following me around down dinging every link or comment I put up. I must say though my karma rating is directly proportional to the flounce factor on any given week. The more flouncers we have, the higher my karma.

492 Locker  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:31:25pm

re: #490 Earth56

I agree with most of what your saying but the alternative is what ?

Msnbc or the other cereal news orgs. which anger me far more than Fox for basically burying an important new story about ACORN.

Many here have just arrived from liberal blogs to basically trash FOX with a broad brush and paint it as Bigoted blah blah and blah...yet I am sure don't actually watch it to be so prejudiced.

Sorry but it seems like in one sentence you condemn liberals for basically trashing Fox with a broad brush when you just did the EXACT same thing in the previous sentence with regard to MSNBC, etc.

493 calcajun  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:31:52pm

re: #482 Mad Al-Jaffee

-2000?! That reminds me of the SNL Celebrity Jeopardy sketches!

I'll take Anal Bum Cover for $500, Alex.
That's An Album Cover, Mr. Connery!

494 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:32:33pm

re: #489 LudwigVanQuixote

So if thats your take on FOX than whats your take on the BBC who distorts just about every story involving Israel.

How about CBS/NBC/ABC/PBS who have until today ignored the ACorn story and try to whitewash it.

I don't believe that you actually have watched Fox but are parroting what "you've heard "

495 Dreader1962  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:32:52pm

re: #486 LudwigVanQuixote

You see I just hate them for being lying crazy ultra-partisan shills with no desire to be factual.

I was citing limited reasons because there is a character limit to posts. I know that there are some out there who will point to selected factual reports to 'redeem' the channel. I don't derive my news from any television station anymore with the exception of flicking on CNN when I wake up to make sure the world is still there.

Before Fox, my unit constantly had CNN up as a non-government source of info - this was one of the reasons it had established its reputation. I have my gripes with CNN - don't get me started on Christiana Amanpour!

496 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:33:34pm

re: #487 Bagua


Apology accepted ...no problem and thanks

497 Fluffy Bunny  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:34:36pm

re: #485 turn

The recipe is from a Cuban friend and it is out of this world! It smells so good, I have a drool bib on to protect my keyboard.

I hate to hear about the tragedy near your home, prayers to the young man who lost his parents.

498 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:36:11pm

re: #474 wrenchwench

Tilting at windmills

499 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:36:18pm

re: #472 Earth56

and just how wrong am I ?
Do you actually watch Fox or are parroting what certain folks try to paint based on third hand gibberish and one person named Beck ?

Please tell me oh great one !

As to your actual point, yes I have watched FOX news in the past, however, I also found their tabloid style sensationalism irritating despite preferring their bias to the bias on the leftist sites. The same is true of their website, as a result, I continued to use CNN for basic news because I found FOX so distasteful, this despite the fact I find CNN's liberal bias to be distasteful.

Now that FOX is retaining Beck despite his obvious descent into paranoia, I find it discredits them. It saddens me they they are the alleged "conservitive" news site, they are not. They are a TV tabloid.

500 avanti  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:36:57pm

re: #481 wrenchwench

That's only funny because he's already banned.

I guess I'm a typical liberal softy, I thought he'd get a little more time before the hammer dropped for some diplomacy.:)

501 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:37:14pm

re: #480 Charles

It also explains all the "bring back McCarthy" stuff at tea parties. It was a pretty common theme.

502 Dreader1962  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:37:30pm

re: #490 Earth56

I agree with most of what your saying but the alternative is what ?

Msnbc or the other cereal news orgs. which anger me far more than Fox for basically burying an important new story about ACORN.

Many here have just arrived from liberal blogs to basically trash FOX with a broad brush and paint it as Bigoted blah blah and blah...yet I am sure don't actually watch it to be so prejudiced.

How about turning off the TV? I've detailed it before, but the whole premise of television news is skewed regardless of channel. They derive revenue from advertisements, and this affects how they report things as well as the duration and detail of their reports. How can you study anything in depth with interruptions every 5-7 minutes for advertisements? You can do headlines that way, but you can't detail complex issues. Also, going into detail on anything would be 'boring' to the large portion of their audience and drive away viewers, which goes back to the advertisers - they wouldn't stand for that.

I'm sure someone somewhere has done a study of this. There is much more to be said on the subject - my comments are derived from my own experience.

503 turn  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:38:15pm

re: #497 Fluffy Bunny

The recipe is from a Cuban friend and it is out of this world! It smells so good, I have a drool bib on to protect my keyboard.

I hate to hear about the tragedy near your home, prayers to the young man who lost his parents.

Thanks, actually it was the beans that had my mouth watering :.)

504 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:38:24pm

re: #492 Locker

I have asked many on the left straight ar gatherings if they honestly watched Fox...answer is no except for blips.

Are those on the Right perfect...nada

Watch the other cast at Fox and tell me that they are bigots etc etc

If you do than I can't imagine what answer you have for MSNBC or the BBC

505 Dreader1962  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:38:52pm

re: #491 Locker

I get that all the time. Stalkers following me around down dinging every link or comment I put up. I must say though my karma rating is directly proportional to the flounce factor on any given week. The more flouncers we have, the higher my karma.

As Shatner once said, "Get a life!"

(Meant to apply to the stalkers, not you Locker.)

506 Irenicum  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:40:00pm

Thank you Charles for posting this. I've been telling friends who think Beck is a harmless buffoon that his motivation is anything but harmless. This Skousen kook is the epitome of crazy consipiracism run a muck.The more this stuff gets mainstreamed the more dangerous a time we live in.

507 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:40:20pm

re: #462 Earth56

iT WASN'T BECAUSE OF cbs/nbc/abc

No, it was because the Senate and House were moving to cut off their funds; Andy Cuomo opened an investigation in NY, and the Brooklyn DA opened an investigation as well.

508 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:40:49pm

re: #502 Dreader1962

How about turning off the TV? I've detailed it before, but the whole premise of television news is skewed regardless of channel. They derive revenue from advertisements, and this affects how they report things as well as the duration and detail of their reports. How can you study anything in depth with interruptions every 5-7 minutes for advertisements? You can do headlines that way, but you can't detail complex issues. Also, going into detail on anything would be 'boring' to the large portion of their audience and drive away viewers, which goes back to the advertisers - they wouldn't stand for that.

I'm sure someone somewhere has done a study of this. There is much more to be said on the subject - my comments are derived from my own experience.


I read the Wall Street Journal and several magazines for my information.
The reason I even watch TV news is to pick up misinformation or bias especially from Europe.

509 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:41:43pm

re: #490 Earth56

Many here have just arrived from liberal blogs to basically trash FOX with a broad brush and paint it as Bigoted blah blah and blah...yet I am sure don't actually watch it to be so prejudiced.

Not true at all. I've been at this blog for years, and have spoken freely of my disdain for fox news for years. I used to watch them, and was turned off by a number of things- I saw them as little different than the other news outlets in that they only spread talking points. So- you're not one to talk about broad brushes. You just fell victim to your own fallacy.

510 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:41:58pm

re: #507 lawhawk

No, it was because the Senate and House were moving to cut off their funds; Andy Cuomo opened an investigation in NY, and the Brooklyn DA opened an investigation as well.


and was this before the two journalists cracked open the story or after ?

511 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:45:03pm

re: #493 calcajun

I'll take Anal Bum Cover for $500, Alex.
That's An Album Cover, Mr. Connery!

I'll take The Rapist for $500.

Suck it Trebeck!

512 dwill890  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:47:16pm

Personally, I like Glen Beck. I like the comedy he produces. I think he has become (and I say this light heartedly) a bit of an alarmist. LOL.

In addition, for all those brave souls that may say, whatever insults, I am only concerned about my own personal boundaries that is the things "I control." I do not worry about what I cannot control. In addition, you are respectfully welcome to you opinion. I think we would all be better people if we follow one of two directions, make it funny, or be polite.

If Mr. Beck wants to scream the end of the world is near, that is cool, I hope he does it in a funny way.


All the Best to You!
Dave

513 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:48:48pm
514 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:49:36pm

re: #502 Dreader1962

How about turning off the TV?

It's one of the best things I've for myself in recent years. Talk radio too. I prefer to get my news online, where I can cross reference, fact check, and verify sources.

515 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:50:31pm

re: #513 greatinfidel

Why would someone ON PURPOSE go to a "strange little world"?

516 cliffster  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 1:53:10pm

re: #512 dwill890

I see today's therapy went well, Dave.

517 Dreader1962  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:03:46pm

re: #515 sattv4u2

Why would someone ON PURPOSE go to a "strange little world"?

Can you say 'lurker'?

"I'm not one of you, but I am watching you!"

518 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:04:24pm

re: #494 Earth56

So if thats your take on FOX than whats your take on the BBC who distorts just about every story involving Israel.

How about CBS/NBC/ABC/PBS who have until today ignored the ACorn story and try to whitewash it.

I don't believe that you actually have watched Fox but are parroting what "you've heard "

The Beeb has a terrible bias the other way. And I have seen Fox, what I can stand of it.

Just because the Beeb is the leftwing Eurotrash version of the rightwing redneck Fox, how does that excuse Fox?

519 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:06:03pm

re: #504 Earth56

I have asked many on the left straight ar gatherings if they honestly watched Fox...answer is no except for blips.

Are those on the Right perfect...nada

Watch the other cast at Fox and tell me that they are bigots etc etc

If you do than I can't imagine what answer you have for MSNBC or the BBC

Again the answer is that the BBC is terribly biased the other way, but honestly not so biased to the left as Fox is to the right. To get that degree of bias from Britain, you need the Guardian. And they are both, Fox and the Guardian equally obnoxious.

520 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:09:14pm

re: #519 LudwigVanQuixote

You've got to be kidding about the BBC...the bastion of bias.

Try BiasedBBC.com for a look

The BBc after the last 25 years has probably caused more deaths than I can imagine by how they report on the Middle East.

521 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:10:44pm

re: #518 LudwigVanQuixote

The Beeb has a terrible bias the other way. And I have seen Fox, what I can stand of it.

Just because the Beeb is the leftwing Eurotrash version of the rightwing redneck Fox, how does that excuse Fox?

Because the BBC has gotten a 25 year headstart is how.

522 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:14:06pm

re: #519 LudwigVanQuixote

Again the answer is that the BBC is terribly biased the other way, but honestly not so biased to the left as Fox is to the right. To get that degree of bias from Britain, you need the Guardian. And they are both, Fox and the Guardian equally obnoxious.

You forgot The Independent.

523 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:15:07pm

Joseph Goebels is probably enshrined somewhere in the offices of the BBC for training so called journalist how to do it right.

Other than this Glenn Beck escapade please tell me where FOX has either lied or twisted a story to push their agenda .

524 Bagua  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 2:23:17pm

re: #520 Earth56

You've got to be kidding about the BBC...the bastion of bias.

Try BiasedBBC.com for a look

The BBc after the last 25 years has probably caused more deaths than I can imagine by how they report on the Middle East.

Excuse me, Bagua to Earth56, did you not read what Ludwid wrote? "Again the answer is that the BBC is terribly biased the other way," that was essentially an agreement with your point. Also, he is correct in pointing out that the real comparison is with the Guardian.

The BBC however, deserves special critisism as they are supported by a mandatory tax on everyone owning a TV. They then use this massive monetary advantage to promote their biased agenda, which is highly anti-Israel, Pro-EU and numerous other sins. In their favour, they at least produce some good content and while their news cast is biased, it is at least not a shrieking tabloid style like FOX.

525 Sloppy  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 3:29:02pm

I have been here through much of the late afternoon, and read hundreds of comments, waiting to see someone flounce. So far, no dice. I've never seen a flounce, and feel poorer for it. Come on, somebody: Jump.

526 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:33:32pm

re: #525 Sloppy

I have been here through much of the late afternoon, and read hundreds of comments, waiting to see someone flounce. So far, no dice. I've never seen a flounce, and feel poorer for it. Come on, somebody: Jump.

You need to see it real time?

Try to be First first, and say so...

527 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:01:04pm

re: #498 Killgore Trout

Tilting at windmills

Oh, I'm familiar with Tilting at Windmills, but you combined it with Windmills of Your Mind, to make "Tilting at the windmills in his mind" which I think is brilliant.

528 Cosmo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:13:59pm

Just as I do not judge Catholics against the yardstick of John Kerry, nor Baptists and Pentecostals based on Al Sharpton and Pat Robertson, I sincerely hope that, although both Skousen and Beck were/are LDS, that those who frequent this site do not judge the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints solely on their commentaries and opinions.

Nothing I've seen here, including Charles's inherent fairness, would lead me to believe otherwise.

529 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:19:45pm

re: #528 Cosmo

See DaddyG's comment at #167, and his other comments.

530 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:34:33pm

re: #528 Cosmo

Just as I do not judge Catholics against the yardstick of John Kerry, nor Baptists and Pentecostals based on Al Sharpton and Pat Robertson, I sincerely hope that, although both Skousen and Beck were/are LDS, that those who frequent this site do not judge the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints solely on their commentaries and opinions.

Nothing I've seen here, including Charles's inherent fairness, would lead me to believe otherwise.

Absolutely not - I don't judge all Mormons by Cleon Skousen, any more than I judge all Southerners by Robert Stacy McCain.

531 Cosmo  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:49:13pm

I don't even know why I was concerned.

Here, more than any other site I comment/frequent/read, I see rational thought and reasoned debate (and those who don't are summarily blocked).

532 Earth56  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 5:53:13pm

re: #528 Cosmo

Cosmo,
When I was out in Utah years ago at a meeting in Salt Lake City and Snowbird I was impressed by the organizational capacity of the people there and the way we were welcomed. There are always people who are going to be predijududiced no matter what as I well know from experience.

I might not agree all the time with Charles but he is a good person period and trys to be fair and balanced even though on the topic of Acorn we butt heads in a way.

533 HelloDare  Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:34:23pm

It's the Elvis Factor

This August 16th marks the 25th anniversary of the official death of Elvis Presley, but eight percent of respondents in a recent FOX News/Opinion Dynamics poll say they believe there is a chance that Elvis could be alive. Eighty-one percent of the respondents think people who believe Elvis may be alive are crazy and 11 percent are not sure whether The King may still be around or not.


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